20 Episode results for "Boston University"
Why Changing The Script in Public Health is The Best Way Forward with Sandro Galea, Physician, Epidemiologist, and Public Health Dean at Boston University School of Public Health
"Welcome to the outcomes rocket podcast where we inspire collaborative thinking improved outcomes and business success with today's most successful end inspiring healthcare leaders and influencers and now your host Sal Marquez rocket listeners welcome welcome back once again to the outcomes rockets where we chat with today's most successful and inspiring healthcare leaders. I invite you to go to outcomes rocket dot health south to check out our podcast. Leave us a rating and review and let us know what you think about today's guest. His name is Sandra Gallet. He's Dean Sandra Galera. He's a physician epidemiologist and public dean of Health at the Boston University School of Public Health. He is a very very well known for many of his research papers. He's got over seven hundred papers out. There all focused on population health. His work spans the majority of what we're talking about here on every podcast and so it's really exciting to have him carve out some time for us and chat we had <hes> will right who <hes> is with the economic development partnership of Alabama who recommended this book to me and I was just floored by. It loved it. It's called healthier fifty thoughts on on the foundations wins of population health and this is one that I recommend to all the listeners. If you have not read it yet. It's an amazing way. If you're busy person to get your dose use of population health and understand it further each thought is between two and five pages and so there's no need to feel guilty about diving into the content and so there's there's my little hitch for his book which I love and I recommend completely but what I wanna do is open up the microphone to Dean gala and welcome to the podcast welcome to the podcast Sir in your home you on it is a pleasure and so you've had a a really extensive road that F- has brought you to where you're at today Sandro. What would you say was the spark that got chew interested in health. I grew up in a small Mediterranean island of Malta. So I grew up this way and then I left the university in <hes> I was always interested in health and as an immigrant when you're interested in health the only thing that you know you can do is be a doctor so road ultra wrote my <hes> my early Early Childhood Than Adolescence I knew was going to be altered because I was interested in hell so I imitate the Canada went to medical school in Canada did residency and I became a doctor. The doctor Dr after became an acute care doctor emergency medicine and primary care practice in some remote rural places and then I did some since working globally globally in some of those stints involved working place set up in a Guinean working in places like the Philippines and I also particular worked in Somalia and I spent a year on enough working working with doctors. Without Borders Medecins some frontier very cool and <hes> I was the only doctor in around the region with both frantic thousand people regionical trump's land and <hes> <hes> while I was there I was doing medicine acute care medicine every day and it was becoming in there will be injured <unk> fix them in many respects that was doing the epitome of medicine what do most trying to do helping people get better. I remember having this feeling that once I left nothing was going onto change that I was doing some good hope those some good hotels helping people but once I left nothing was going to change because maybe there'll be another doctor from the borders maybe naught but essentially nothing fundamentally was changing. It was causing people to get sick and thinking must be a better way now. The truth is I did not noah way. I was trained at the University of Toronto Medical School. Which is the Classic Medical Training. I was trained to be a good doctrine to nick people who are sick make them healthy healthy again but I had no understanding all no training in nope perspective on how to keep people healthy to begin with and I thought there must be a way of doing Inga's so I went back to school I <hes> I was a full-fledged physician working and I said to go back to school when I went back and did a master's in public health in Banja the doctorates and then Mike Russell my career history the bin Population Health and it's been in trying to understand how it is that that we can create a healthier world. That's been my journey. That's a beautiful journey so you went from the front lines this passion for health frontline physician explored Lord Third World Country Medicine and just found this gravitational pull toward how can we make the foundations of health better and and so here you are today day <hes> Dean Galera just as a thought leader and population health. What would you say a hot topic. That should be on every medical leaders agenda today. I think I think everybody who is in medicine and health. Today should be asking themselves the question. How can we make sure that everybody dies healthy now. What do I mean by that this assume for a second but so unique perspective everybody dies healthy. We are a it <hes> you and I saw live as long as we can as healthy as we can and then one day Assam so that perspective is a very different perspective than a perspective that says but we're trying to do is catch people once they have disease and restore them to health and prolonged disease in a way the extra moves to help what we want to create train healthiest possible world now when you say that to yourself use Turkey about health differently because oddly you realize is that the locus of health is not me. It's not you. The locus of health is the world around us. You realize that if when you want to keep everyone is heaviest bustle as long as possible. We need to create a world degenerates health. And what does it look like an ask the question. What does the looks up. What are the politics politics that we need to put in place to generate. What is the environmental health but the people relationships <unk>? What is the compassion meeting to make sure that we generate health all of a sudden the locus shifts away from the individual to the world around us. I actually think that's the hardest question that we face right now. In help in I would argue. That's the most important Bhushan and unfortunately it's also the question that we pay attention yeah. It's a very insightful a message that he shared their Sandro and as I think about that you know it definitely does create a shift in the way that that I think about healthcare to die healthy healthy and why do you think we have this challenge of not focusing on on what you just mentioned. I think there is an American script of how we think of health and if I may I think it extends to deliver value us because you have used the word healthcare. Yes you said at the beginning the PODCAST is about healthcare in rates now in your question to me we used word healthcare and I'm sure you didn't even think about that is because we are so used to thinking about healthcare as interchangeable with help two very very different concerts healthcare is about you and I both need once. We're sick right than we want to have great <unk> about it when we're sick will be sick at some point in our lives. We want good healthcare. We want good medicine to restore out in no way. Am I saying this little boards. I don't want to understood. I Think Medicine <hes> curative care is very important. However the narrative is so dominated by Medicine Curative Care that were healthcare slips would've been noticing so we need to change the script and we need to sit on but health. I would argue that your podcast is health. Actually ultimately interest engineering an an healthcare is one approach to if you are interested in generating unique to think about place and nature you think about knowledge that we need to generate help me the humility to recognize. There are a lot of things we don't have a hung jury help. We need to help people structured or choices. Better me to make sure that we have the freedom to live in a helpful health away. We need to make sure that there is a fair unjust environment that can promote health and we need to ultimately think about the values that promote health as a public good that is we'll need think about where we think about that super interesting delay and so health versus healthcare and for the listeners that thinking through are these profound thoughts that Dean delay sharing. What is it that we can do whether you're industry executive or or your provider to think about this in a bigger way health is different than healthcare and what can you do to start providing the resources the thoughtfulness care the compassion to help people live healthier lives? A big problem that I see England is just the way that the health system incentives are positioned their position to to drive arrive that curative care that that you mentioned rather than the preventative care. What are your thoughts on on shifts there that needs to happen. I think that's an excellent question limited to be answered. I by example favorite examples is what some hospitals have done to reduce their costs but also the burden <hes> of acute asthma attack scene emergency so some hospital surround. The country had the forward looking vision to say. We're getting these execute. Asthma attacks happened with vulnerable populations particularly when the weather is such simple <unk> Hoffman stifling in urban areas and they said we're never going to changed yeah. It's costing US money unless we go into the community into people's homes and for example provider conditioners now by I think you would degree in most listeners would agree the air conditioners waiting or conditioners is not really healthcare. Brightwood is structuring the environment so that people do not get cute as <unk> beginning. This has been published has been shown to reduce costs for as well as keeping so. I didn't think that the incentives needs to be as Mr Line as we think they are now. Having said that there is a real challenge with the incentives neither is a real challenge that many healthcare systems continue to be incentivized on a sick person basics incentivize restore people to health rather than to keep people healthy and that will need to change over time but we are seeing movements towards it over time. Global models are ultimately movements in the direction. ACO's movement movements in this direction. They remain small efforts in the big scheme of things but it core. I cannot help but feel that the appeal of this perspective is such that eventually it has to prevail yes and it's is fascinating this idea of an air conditioner and you pay you know whatever four hundred dollars for an air conditioner and you can avoid a patient from really having those attacks and even the costs on the system so the broadening of what can be paid for with. Medicare Medicaid dollars is definitely a question that should be addressed address over in <hes> in in Washington. It certainly should be and this is a complicated question. There's no question in large part because we already have <unk> system. It's set up their incentives Santos. There's momentum there are ways in which we do things in anytime you start thinking about shifting systems it involves a lot of people involves a lot of particular interest but this is why I come onto the notion that we need a change in <unk> the change in language achievement conversation around health there is at core one of the things that made it the past several years is a fundamental mismatch in this country and the mismatch is false. We spent more on health and opposing. AC two-word health because I'M GONNA get to it's not reading more on health than any other country in the world all your listeners notice about the third more effect mcnutt just a little bit more a lot more but we also have worst health indicators than other hand countries known not comparing the fluid countries fair comparison brought to appear countries. We have worse health indicators so there is this mismatch that we spend more and get less in arguably we would not accept a mismatch in any other sector and in fact there's no other sector you can think of has the same example so the question is why is that what's going on why we're spending so much and getting so little. Is there something wrong with America's. Another isn't the answers <unk>. The answer is is that we spend on curative care. We spend on curative care can be do not spend on this. There's that ultimately we need to invest and to keep people healthy as well as spending on curative care to restore the health when we get sick so we have this enormous mismatch mismatch. Well you make sure you generate the science to in the end. He makes sure that you communicate you. Communicate so that we can change the language and full absolutely and what are the things. That's a theme here that that you've mentioned Sandra's. This thought of changing the script. It's something that that I think about in my day to day as an individual just GonNa what's the script. What's my story. Hey how's that affecting what I'm doing with my family with my work but there's also a thing that you do really well and I captured from from reading. Your book is just this this amazing amazing ability to to capture society sort of as a body in itself and society American Society also has a script and changing changing that script is the opportunity for anybody in public health as well as at a hospital. What would you say is the way that we can do that. How do we change the script a different way. Some changes scrip into two ways of come to my mind is number. One is a stories illustrate live when even use and number the two is by producing the right evidence so let me start with the story. Maybe tell a story if you don't mind Jeff plays. We like stories. Okay so story is of a is that the Blues Man Blind Willie Johnson Language Ounces lose many can you can find his work out there and <hes> blindly. Johnson's latest disclaimed to fame was that the one of his songs was included in the golden disk was sent off the space on one of the spacecraft's that went out has never gonNA come back in case aliens come to US and again here. It's language also Johnson was born at the turn of the twentieth century fix the story or is that he was blinded by having lied thrown in his face when he was three in a domestic violence incident so he grew up lying and for indexes to learn how to play. He made a living busking very good living living he got married. He's living in a fairly ramshackle house which burned down and his wife had no money so that kept apps living in the burnt-out. Shell is house in his early Forties Rangel Johnson Malaria. His wife took him to hospital and the story is that he was turned away from it was unclear whether he was turned away because he was poor because he was black he was blind and then he got now suppose for a second that there was an effective tale that he could have taken for his malaria right away or shot. That could have taken a good of cured him everybody listening to this will realize that blind. Willie Johnson was GonNa die sooner or later later anyway something was going to get. It wasn't just malaria that killed language. It was malaria but it was also covered. It was domestic violence. It was racism. It was homelessness. All of those factors also have language in when you tell the story I think most rational people realize we should definitely do something malaria but we should also do something about domestic violence about racism but homelessness but access to care and that is what it means to create a healthier world the US ignored a better. You don't ignore the treatment but you also realize that unless we can also deal with these accumulating risks. We are never going to create healthy so he asked me. What can we do so number one is I think we tell the stories of what it requires to create health officials and the second thing I think is we need to focus our science. On generating this <unk> focus science on showing the that public transportation implemented on large-scale will end up saving saving lives and saving money to generate more and more evidence that shows that the earned income expert will result in saving mothers and children's loss when eating create data this shows. It's creating affordable housing can double people's quality of life assessments of their own health. These are all examples from giving on which there are data there are many many other aspects of reading hello world on which we do not have their so telling the stories creating the evidence that could that's such a beautiful <hes> response and and I think a wonderful way of doing it and so you're exposed to a lot of these things in your role with what you do. Engla- A lot of the people that are in the front line like you were at one point. Just don't get that exposure. What would you say the best way to hear these stories and to figure out what the possibilities are is because your wealth of knowledge. How do we connect what you do with the implementers in the front lines are doing. I think that's what you're doing so let's have a podcast me on so my job is to tell the story and your job is to be sure that everybody listens to what cast man ah the that's such a great call out and this is exactly why we started outcomes rocket and it's a really great idea and I love what you've gone into here and so the thought is maybe we create some sort of forum where people can go and and hear stories of what it is that actually works and changing the script. That's just is something that really resonates with me. Sandra and I'm GonNA think about how we implement this even further to empower those in frontlines listening to this podcast to make decisions that are going to work best for the populations but also them as people and individuals. I'm in to help you. Let me know thank you so much. I'm going to take you up on it <laughter> so Sandra. Can you give us a an example of potentially a population health effort that has gone awry and was learned from it because a lot of the listeners are working hard and they're working a lotta hours to dive deeper and provide solutions in population health. Can you give an example of of a mistake that you've seen and what they could learn from it so they don't repeat it yet big picture. I think it'd be richer many efforts its population health improvement that fail in the ones that fail my estimation looking at the data are typically efforts that aim to tell tell people how to behave the data are clear telling people huckabee bitter. Thou shalt not eat high fat foods. Thou shalt not smoke Shoukri do they just do not work the in fact they might work for a short while and then they stop working so population health efforts that are they would call exhortative exploitative filling finger-wagging. Yes that is not the right way to improve cognition if we would like people to have healthier behaviors to change structures. I'll give you an example. The best example of that is the incredible success story of the reduction in death from car accidents in the past hundred years years people die per vehicle. Mile Driven Two hundred twenty times less than one hundred years ago Madison Amazing Success Amazing now ask you this question are people today. Better drivers were hundred years made it pretty clear united in Boston. I can tell you that they're not thank you myself in that probably but we hit six hundred success we hit success because we create airbags and seat belts in shatterproof glass in the ways for people to pull over in nature. People people don't drink in bribes from religious. That's how we changed it so public health efforts that imagine if one hundred years ago someone said look we have a problem with car accidents won't need to do is when you you fool out. Efforts spend a hundred years people to better would not have nudged our car fidelity. Maybe best little bit nowhere near two hundred twenty five reduction that we have it now so number. I think public publishing efforts fail if they simply tried to target individual behavior because we humans we you and me well. Let's just be real. Speak for myself. We're perfect. We do bad things door cells in it's a matter of changing the world around us so that our choices can help teachers says number one the second mistake. Doc <unk> efforts. Is something a little bit more subtle but I think equally important which is we can aim to improve the health of hope relations in in so doing doing we create health gaps within populations so let me give an example supposing you are responsible for health <unk> supposing say well. One of things I WANNA do is want to increase the rate of Collins. People were fifty problems. Regular colonoscopies reduce the incidence of Uncle Ricky's so you say the colonoscopy rate in this community sixty percent. I want to get up to eighty percent. How do you take up eighty percent while Jesus we do that. Is I wanted to go to everybody who's rich and well house in this community and take they're calling Oscar break to one hundred percents by doing that. My average has been brought to eight but of course you ignore everybody else in everybody. Else's cough drops to fifty percents so you've succeeded in the average but you've now widened the gap and I think that is the really challenged the population health efforts face and I think there's no easy solution for that. I think there's a tension between equity and efficiency which is achieving <unk> utilitarian question but which of these do you most prefer in editing this right now. I think the value questioning complex but I think is something that anybody interested. Population health needs to have in her mind because we need to make sure that we balance the health of the mini with the health of the few that is intrinsic it is intrinsic to the imperatives we have to create healthy populations in knots to make populations at least four Nickelsville. Yeah these are some great lessons and and listeners take these thoughts into consideration as you as you look to implement population health programs where where you're at and if you're a company looking to somehow partner with the providers to do this just keep these thoughts in mind some really great points of wisdom. There and I've taken a lot of notes here. I know that you have to but don't worry if you haven't if you're driving or working out and you could dive into outcomes rocket dot health health slash Sandro. That's outcomes rockets dot health slash. Sandro and you'll be able to get the details here of what we've been talking about so Dingo England. This has been really really interesting are what we do in in the podcast here as we're getting close to the end. Is We build a syllabus on what it takes to be successful all in medicine today it's the one on one or the ABC's of Sandra Galilea in this case so I've got four questions for you. They're going to be lightning round style and then we'll we'll finish with a book that you recommend to the listeners. You Ready Ready Awesome. What's the best way to improve health outcomes investing in all the structures around the liquid healthy. What is the biggest mistake or pitfall to avoid the biggest mistake or pitfall to avoid is to think that I I myself and make myself healthy. Take these mistake we can make is by thinking as long as I have enough money to go to the best bustle doctor. I'm going to be healthy because that is realized by not investing in health systems in west. Africa owes some one can Bible in the next day so we mistake is to think about me and the right answers to realize that our health collectively whether we like it or not is interlinked and we have no choice but to invest in creating in looking at health <unk>. That's love that and listeners. If you want to dive deeper into this thought I'll put a link here to Dean Galea's talk on Ted Med he really dives deep into this the thought of me versus we and and the impacts of of that in healthcare so go to the show notes and you'll be able to find that how do you stay relevant as an organization despite constant awesome change the organization stay relevant by following the Gretzky maximum. It don't go where the PUCK is. You go where the Puck is going to beat of course is tricky to know where to pack is going to be but I'm in the context of health. There is little question in my mind that the PUCK is going to be in a place of keeping people healthy for as long as possible in organizations that healthcare organizations that continued to focus strictly on restoring people to health are on the losing side of history history of at what is one area of focus that should drive everything else in your organization think humanity has created organizations as a way of generating rating human capital <unk> organizations are all about the people cite them and at the end of the day organizations are only as strong as the people who make up the organization so area focus ultimately needs to be on developing communication angles people's of those people can best be possibly can in helping new administration achieve its mission and finally at Dean Galeao. What book would you recommend to the listeners on this syllabus. I would recommend the recently released book by Him Walt Whitman and which was pulled the Manley health and training to teach the science of sound and beautiful body which world which was called from writings with more than one hundred where he talked about mini of things that you and I talked about right now that's amazing okay. That's a really great recommendation and listeners take that one down but also in that list Dr Galera. He's he's very humble man but I also WanNa recommend his book which was very inspiring and I know that you'll find inspiring especially. If you're a busy person trying to learn about population health it's called healthier fifty thoughts on the foundations of population health. Pick that one up and also the Walt Whitman on healthcare was the name of that one again the Queen's name. It's called Manley really health in training Manley Health and training and this is the timeless principles of what works right. It's love it so you'll find links to this. This listeners in it just go to the show notes at outcomes rocket dot health slash Sandro and so we're here to the end. This has been so much fun. I'd love if you could just share a closing thought with the listeners and the best place that they could follow. You're get a hold of you. Let me close with the one more story forum as Dina's don't have much time for pets but I have had goldfish okay. I love my critical spending. You're wondering what is going. I'm going to so so I tell my pet goldfish. I want you to be healthy so every day I wanted to swim around your bowl then thanks clockwise sometimes counterclockwise these days and when I feed it a little flaky stuff on top. Don't eat too much. Don't get and when you get sick goldfish. I'm GonNa get you the best goldfish doctor one day I walk into my living room and my goldfish all dead on. Could this be exercise that eat too much doctor and then I realized I forgot to changed changed water and if you don't teach <unk> water doesn't matter what else he do goldfish will not and we article and when we focus only on medicine the same thing happens to us so we ultimately need to create their health by drinking water water is where we live in cities around us rule environments on the air. We breathe the water. Are we drink food. We eat the politics policy shape those conditions that ultimately was great so that's my last now follow me on twitter at AC Sandra Galeao one word and a publish various different places but I always pushed him out on twitter stroke eases falling wonderful up powerful way to end this in this interview Dingo. This has been amazing. I really appreciate you carving out the time for us and <hes> looking forward to keep up with your work. Thank you so much for being on the PODCAST. Thank giving missile. Thanks for listening to the outcomes rocket podcast. These shooter visit us on the Web at W._W._W. Dot Outcomes walking dot com for the show notes resources inspiration and so much more.
Ibram X. Kendi Launches New Center For Antiracist Research At Boston University
"Ebro. Ex Kennedy is an award winning bestselling scholar on race on July first he officially joined Boston University's faculty, and is the founding head of a new center for anti-racist research there, and I should just mention Boston University does hold the broadcasting license for WB. You are now while discussions with candy happened over a period of a year, his and the centers arrival could not be more timely as Boston and the country to the third month, in which protests are happening over racism police brutality. The murder of George Floyd by Minneapolis police even Mex- Kennedy, historian and author most recently of how to be an anti-racist joins us on the line now. Professor Kenny welcomed radio. Boston. Thank you for having me on the show. It's a pleasure to have you. I want to start with the question. You actually probably get a lot, but you have completely reframed the racist versus not a racist, rejecting the idea that not a racist is really even a thing. You argue there's racist and anti racist. Could you explain for our listeners? What that distinction is? Whore. I think it's critically important for us to to realize their do that. Suggest racial hierarchy that certain racial groups have better or worse than others and those are racist ideas in their. Ideas that suggest racial equality and those anti-racist ideas, their policies that are leading to racial inequity, and those racist and their policies, leading racial equity, and those are anti-racists and you can see. There's really no place for not racist ideas, race neutral policies you know our ideas and our policies, either being racist antiracist, and when we are expressing or supporting or challenging work, defending those policies or or ideas. That's when we'll be racist or anti racist as well. Your book the most recent one has to be an anti-racist really comes from a place of deep personal narrative. It's striking. What made you decide to put your own personal development at the heart of your argument? As you lay out, your ceases in that book. Sure, could you know you sort of ask about the heart of my argument? About the heart of Being anti-racist. The heartbeat of anti-racism itself is concession because really at the heartbeat of racism is denial in the sound veteran Iro is I'm not racist. The sound of The concession is you know what I was being racist. When I said that there was something wrong with the Latino immigrants or black people, and so I wanted that concession wanted that vulnerability I wanted that self-reflection to really be the host of the book and I realized that I could sort of use my own story to do that. One of the things that you teach about that, just seem so. I don't know important for the moment. Is You talk about moving away from terms like structural or institutional racism, and instead explicitly calling out and using the term racist policies, it has been clear since quite early on in the coronavirus pandemic that it hits communities of color and vulnerable populations disproportionately hard. If you would argue that there are racist policies behind that disparity, and if so, if this is a place where you could give us an example or two of what a racist policy is. Whore. Insult. Advocate for to I use still use terms sometimes structural and systemic racism, but racism is essentially structural and systemic, and and also when we speak to everyday people. When we say structural racism, they may not understand what that means, but if we say racist policies or a series of racist policies that that is more, you know, they can really wrap their heads around around that, and and the way that's impacting their lives, and so in a case of Kobe nineteen. We for instance no, that that more predictive of black team black people being disproportionately infected and dying of a covert then even their pre existing conditions, if air and water quality of neighborhoods is access to health, insurance is access to high quality care and is employment status, and so those pass zoning policies that have led to black and brown communities, being more likely to to the near transfer stations, or to be essentially polluted our form of racist policies that are then leaning to these disparities. Let's talk a little now. About this new center for anti-racist research. We know that there's been a long history between academic research data driven research and policy, development or formation in the US you I know are interested in data science to qualify racist policies and their impact I also know it's true that there's been concerned for a while that big data quote. Unquote might actually include implicit bias. That would disadvantage vulnerable populations in research. So how are you thinking about big data data science and some of the questions that you both can and want to use data to answer through the research of this center? prepping preferably the briefly answer, this is to talk a little bit about what we mean when we say anti-racist research and and so racist research. When there's inequities and injustices. Ask The question well. What's wrong with people you know. How can we figure out a way to change? These people civilized these people. What's wrong with people? That's the fundamental research question of racist research when it comes to. Research and there's inequity injustice. The fundamental research question is what's wrong with policies. What's wrong with conditions? What's wrong with structures and systems? And, so part of the way in which we can see that there's a problem. is by having racial data and racial data. And Its collection, and its presentation can either be done in a racist antiracist form, and so you have some data scientists who just imagine that? Data is just removed from human consideration in in the way they consider ai to not have the possibility to be inherently racist or anti racist because it's amazing. Intelligence precisely and anything made by humans can be racist or anti racist. You know. You can't say Boston and racism. Without thinking of our cities, reputation, and in Boston, has historically had a reputation for being a very racist city, a lot of high profile, black Comedians, athletes broadcasters have told stories in recent years about that in reading to be an anti-racist I was struck. You seem to have been pretty intentional about intentional about we're. You've chosen to live at times in your life, and also it seems that where you live has affected who you are as a person how you see and think about the world and your research so was Boston an intentional choice. And how do you think being in Boston with its history will affect shape that work. When I think of Boston a right now I go a place that sits at the nexus of of some of the. With one of the largest, if not the largest concentration of scholars who are studying racism in the country, it's not the world, and until that's what I see and I also. See a place that certainly you know you have racial disparities here and there racial disparities or appalling, and if you have a city, it's racial disparities. You're going to have racism, but I've never lived in a city. That wasn't racist in the United States and then finally you know when I think of Boston I think of a city that in the nineteenth century was the beacon of the Anti. Slavery Movement, and so why CAN'T WE MAKE BOSTON? In the twenty first century, the beacon the anti-racist. You have written about the relationship between protests. Demonstrations change in racist policies arguing if I understand you correctly to some extent that. Rather than starting with hearts and minds start with policy change and hearts and minds will follow so given that we are in our third month of seeing protests demonstrations about racist policies, police brutality, the death George Floyd. Where should the focus in the push be next? What should come next? Well we should be razor focused on not only demonstrating the problem through our demonstration. On speed. But in during that then leading to power and policy change, and and and I think that should be. You know at the forefront of our sort of struggle. You know before we left you. Let you go. We've just come off of the fourth of July weekend here on Radio Boston. We've talked quite a bit in the last couple of weeks about the relationship between June teeth, and the fourth of July recognizing that the fourth of July does does mark independence a moment of independence for our country, but not for everyone in our country, and also reflecting on. How to think about observing June teens can can you reflect on that a little bit for us? How you're seeing the relationship between the the two holidays and what you think, the right posture to those two things as a country should be right now. Obviously I'm I believe June teams should be a national holiday. It should be a holiday which we reflect and remember this nation's history of of enslavement. And certainly from black people to really reflect on the emancipation from some Chattel, slavery, and I think July fourth should be day not in which we celebrate as if we are free, but a day of resistance and protest where we're demonstrating and protesting for every American have the power to be free. It has been a tough year to put it mildly. Where do you find your hope? Where are you getting your? Join Inspiration right now. So I'm hopeful because I believe you have to believe changes possible. To bring it about. And that is Uber. Mex- Kennedy historian author of how to be an anti-racist and director and founder of the New Center for anti-racist Research at Boston, university welcome to the community and thanks so much for being with us today. Welcome. Thank you got me on.
Introducing Slate Day
"The. Hey, this is Dr with wick host of amicus Leo podcast, and I'm just dropping into let you know that we will be in Austin for a fantastic amicus, live show on Saturday, September twenty ninth. And I'm going to be talking about the latest on Brad Kavanagh and the supreme court, and the term head with an incredible lineup of faces and voices, including Angela on watching Willie dean and professor of law at Boston University, Christina Rodriguez professor law at Yale University, Steve Latic professor of law at the university of Texas and at white director of the center for the study of administration at George Mason University. I hope to see all of you there, but failing that I hope to see lots of you there for more information tickets. Please go to slate dot com. Slash live.
Little Atoms 536 - Nell Stevens' Mrs Gaskell and Me
"This is little atoms a radio show about ideas and coacher with me nail Denny. This week, the look stories of two women to send you is in the new memoir from now Stevens, MRIs, gasoline me. No Stevens lives in London where she teaches creative writing at goldsmiths. She has a PHD Torian literature from King's College London, an MFA in fiction from Boston University. Previously, the author of bleak house now is new book MRs Gaskell may to women to love stories, two centuries apart. We're going to be talking about day. No, welcome to thank you. Say what you having the anomaly to describe the book. And specifically in this case, there is a disclaimer at the beginning that does more than the usual some names of in change to protect the innocent or whatever. How would you describe the book? I always land on this highly unsatisfactory term sort of memoir at its satisfies. Absolutely. I want it doesn't satisfy. I've made, but it's the closest I can come to what I've done with both miscall me my first book a house which is to use my own life and restrict myself in no way by doing that, I'm primarily Uttley. Really interested in telling stories. I've also very interested in using life for that purpose, but I have never made a decision to stick to accuracy rather than intrigue, and I've let myself do that. And that's why both my books have very slippery disclaimers in which is Gina, I love I love the memoir disclaimer. People have done really interesting things that I have tried to add to that with with the disclaimer. Wiscon- me two tracks spoke. There's a sections are addressed to Lisbeth Gasco in the second person and then narrative. That is your own more contemporary narrative about you basically struggling to complete day or metro. And so again, obviously with the memoir about yourself, what you've just described face the idea. Now you've changed some names, my chance of -cations or whatever, but essentially what you're telling his things happen to you. But in terms of the the MRs Gasco sections how sections been researched. So the material in them is material that I research during my day, that was the beginning of the work. It's not gonna forced in that sense, a lot of material cut from my thesis. So this book was a chance to redeem this stuff that I had. She found far more interesting than what ended up in my thesis in the end. So it has a basis in really genuinely rigorous academic reset, the kind that might very beleaguered academic supervisor got me eventually to do. But with that, I've jumped off from that. And the second person is really important in this book. It's not a biography. There is an amazing biography of Gasco by Jenny UPA the I really don't think top for a while. And this book is certainly not. Trying to do that. The second person was away to revel in subjectivity essentially to say, I'm looking at you MRs Gaskell and this is what I see. So this is kind of I lurking behind their second person sections in that sense. I think of it as a book that's almost entirely in the first person because it is kind of exploring the fact that I really really cannot know her and the scraps of materials that we have letters, her books. I'll completely insufficient to have any sense of this person really was we're all using huge amounts of much nation when we talk about figures in the past, and I wanted to sit in that and revel in that and get things wrong as necessary. And in the narrative about my work, there's a little getting things wrong. And I wanted to play with that. How fun with that and say, this is my MRs gas coal. She certainly not yours. And so when would use the same material and see something completely different. And that's brilliant. I think we're, we're aware of the the constrains the people that were writing. At that time we're run, but she was friends with. I mean, I guess you couldn't go Charlotte, Runcie, MRIs, Brunswick confused because. But why is why is with Gasco still remains node as MRs Gasco I have such a hard time with it. I was thinking about this earlier, so I think it has to be fundamentally because on some level it's just Ceuta and that's really uncomfortable for us. I'm the president who feels personally affronted when my friends change their names after they get married. I'm really not as of MRs kind of. And yet I have chosen to cool MRs Gasco which is what she put on her books when she was publishing and it does just fit. She had this intense domestic life. She had much more than that as well. But a large part of the things that she thought about whether these domestic issues, she had four daughters whose lives she was incredibly involved in. She had a husband who was someone called him a workaholic today. I would call him over Cleese. He really didn't light leaving. He wouldn't travel. She loves to travel and he wouldn't travel. He hated for and food is kind of thing. And she was completely tethered to this house in Manchester in this husband. She traveled a lot, but that was where she came back to all the time and her letters are absolutely phone of domestic detail. So for all that she is an extraordinarily political writer and for all that she has made some incredible choices in her life and done some really extreme things that buck the trends of Victorian wife would do. I come back to this MRs with her off. Awkwardly, but resided -ly this point. I think one of the Cranford and the the Mary Barton's familiar waves. Y'all say row, biography of Charlotte runs. She did. And that was sort of one of my starting points for writing this book. It was during the period before my first book came out, which was bleak house. And that was again a sort of memoir and I was having as all Debbie writers do intense anxiety about how it was going to be received. And I was worrying that people wouldn't understand that project people who had written about get angry and that were very, very long meetings with lawyers and that kind of thing that were fascinating and absolutely terrifying. And at the same time as having all of these, I was reading about MRs gas goals, life of Charlotte, Bronte and everything that happened after that was published, which just gloss it. Those people threatened to sue her. Everyone who's mentioned it seemed to have some kind of objection to the way they were portrayed. She felt she couldn't get it right. Her lawyer. She was away traveling in very well. This was happening in her absence lawyer issued retractions in her name, and she was written about in very unkind term. By various newspapers. She was getting abusive letters from people in America who she'd never met to claiming that they had been portrayed in the book. It was really, really a nightmare of the kind that watches. I think fear. And so I was reading this and having my own phase about exactly this kind of reception which is in some ways, unique to nonfiction. I think the problem of how do you write about real life and how these tell the truth, if you're writing and she was coming up against this issue of Haroon subjectivity and inherent ability to see what could possibly have happened for different angles. And so I began the book from that point of just exploring my own phys through this horrible experience that she had. And that was very cathartic for me and useful for me because she is indomitable and continued to write and got over it. But she did findings toward narrowly to America at the time. And as you said, she, she does with it by basically sauntered off to rose. Herself go off to perfume months. And when she gets there, there is this as there often was sort of like community of ex Pat artists that are sort of living and spending time together and working together, tell us of some of the people who were there. This group absolutely fascinates me is quite a unique group of people for this period. In time. It was a combination of partition American artists that were other nationalities, but those with predominant groups and they mingled there was an extraordinary female sculptor cooled, Harriet hosmer, who is this very, very strong willed women he'd tackled from America. She made these extrordinary enormous, classical sculptures. She wrote a horse like a man through the streets of very scandalise everyone and she wore men's clothes and slept with women and just had this extraordinarily powerful quit existence in Rome that she couldn't really have had anywhere. Else. There was another to William what more story who goes quotes up in the book who's this American hosted sensually who's just friends with ups, really everyone in threes student parties, and they have a theater in that rooms and put on plays, and they will play the parts in the plays they've written. And it is this kind of extraordinary culture of autistic exchange that they have and they talk about it as though it's a, they know that it's charmed existence. They call it a fairyland this place that they can go and be real artists and not people that in the ways they are at home by their home lives. And that's what was his guests. Go walks into this writer who at home is completely plagued by domestic concerns. And she arrived with all of these things. I t's about her book and just steps into this world where people are treating her like an author, and she gets to live that life at three months. And she calls it a to the tip top point of her life also into this Miller comes ago American Charles Eliot Norton. So who was he. So his younger American critic essentially he's from Boston. He was friends with all sorts of intellectual stains, literally associated with transcendental STS in Boston, and he is described, I think by Henry James, I may have that wrong as having a genius for friendship. And that is who he is. He's extraordinarily charming smart young man who just has this amazing bond with MRs Gaskell from almost a minute they meet, they just clicked together and they feel that they have something in common. And that's kind of the starting point for strand of the book is exploring that relationship and the extent to which we can cool the love story. She's older than him. She's married. They live in different countries after the very, he goes to America. She goes back to Manchester and kind of feeling out the sense of that being actually quite a beautiful love story in its own way conducted over letters and very mutedly because propriety dictates the right wheel of letters. In that situation and maybe they wouldn't have wanted to. I put it in the book that they would have in so on some level, but they have this charmed few months environment. He brings her flowers every morning and shows her all the sites. And this really is kind of defining moment of joy in her life. She talks about it for the rest of her life with such intense nostalgia, and it's no style j. for very and for the group of people who were there. But it's particularly nostalgia for this time spent with Charlie Naughton experience change hers writer in the years to come. I think one of the things that happens to MRs Gaskell in very miss that she gets really good at telling stories. She's always kind of go storyteller. And that's favorite thing to do. And that's what she did in room. And for me, it seems to me to be a point when she really became herself as a writer. She already had success before she came, but the subsequent work, she start one. She's getting really interested in America and she wants to. She wants to go to America and subsequently vice six students. Could Lois the witch which is about a young English girl. He goes to America to Salem during the witch trials, and you can kind of feel other ways in which northern is in her work. I make some of those connections in the book which perhaps again, because this is this sort of intensely subjective exercise perhaps only I will see those and that's the door of it from me. But it's a moment when she becomes a professional to herself and she was intensely professional. She by the end of her life had saved enough money on her from her book says she could buy a house without her husband's knowledge, which was an extraordinary thing to do. She had kind of been yearning to leave Manchester for while he was absolutely tethered to it and his the cost street chapel, which is where he preached and she, this enormous house could loon and she was going to spring it on him as a surprise and it was going to be where unmarried daughters could live and where she could work from then on. And she actually died in the house before she could move in. But this was this. This was how incredibly professionally success. She was by the NFL life that she could do something like that. A little items. I'm not any stem took its Nell Stevens, and we took it about her book MRs Gaskell me two women to stories, two centuries apart. And now you mentioned Jenny glows, biography of of Mrs. Gasco now she doesn't think her Norton where it love as they had a relationship that was more like that of a props, our son. And I want to the other part of this book is your own love story, and I want to extend your conception of relationship was colored by what you got into it with the time. Absolutely. That's the exercise for me is to push this idea that people say there should be a biography for every age that things we see in historical figures lives change depending on the concerns of culture. And this book is perhaps a provocation to say, this should be a biography for every person and further to that that needs to be a biography for every minute of every presence life because what you see changes instantly depending on what you're experiencing yourself. So of course, I was seeing parallels absolutely. Everywhere between my life and hut is because of what I was going through, which was this long distance relationship with this literary American in Boston, and to find gas correspondence with him as I was writing. Similar correspondents across the Atlantic was an invitation to see something there and to identify with that. And I didn't fight with incredibly strongly, but because there is any material that we have, we can never know. And that was one of the things that I really enjoyed working on in this book with this idea of certain elements of life being completely off the page, things like desire. You cannot see them in a letter. You can see the language of desire if it's there, but you can't put a word and see what's behind it. And that was joyful to think about really to say, okay, but what if it was this? And that's run with that? And let's see how my life changes, how I see hers and also how her life changes, how I live mine, which it does by the end of the book to tell us about max, that was very American. But before we came to MRs castle in the first place, I think slowly is the answer I remember reading. I think it must've been married Botin as a teenager. I had this phase of devouring Victorian novels when I was about sixteen seventeen. It was lumped in with a few others. At that time, I really into holiday as well and various other nineteenth century writers, and they were completely joyful experiences for me. And then I went to university and got really distracted by theory for awhile, and it took me a little while to come back to this idea. Actually, what I loved most of all was nineteenth century that and I was okay to focus on that. I had this idea that if I could just write about Marx would be far more important and relevant somehow and actually kind of realized that where my interest really was was Victoria novels and they could be important. So I did a master's in Victorian literature at Birkbeck, which was extraordinarily just an incredible experience. I was working at the time and I would go to the in the evenings to these seminars that just felt like heaven after being in an office, and I had been away from Kadena for a while. So it was a really joyful introduction to reading, and as part of that course. I took module code death in the nineteenth century or something like that, and on that course was was Mary boughten again. So I read that. And then I, I kind of felt the connection to in some level and read more read Lois the witch which is very eminent about sandwich trials, those of death in that. And then I started reading letters and it was like meeting a friend. It really felt extremely personal and intimate letters are extrordinary. And once I found those that was it really that was a really strong bond I felt and laid the for while until I go around to doing my page d, I always needed that she would be my starting point for that. You have fun in the book, the sort of obsessive nurse. And I guess specifically of page the subject matter. I was very grout DVD student. I wasn't really sure I wanted to be there. I just don't my MFA at BU. I had this kind of vague sense if I could really organize my life really well, I could do my PHD writer book come out the PHD ready to take an condemning door, which was this incredibly sort of formulaic and increasing the unachievable for people in the job market and -demia this transition. But there I was doing my PHD not really wanting to do academe eight writing and because of the courtroom in Cadena, particularly in the UK whether really on enough jobs, there's no money in it. Pitchy students are living on almost thing. I was surrounded by people. He absolutely focused on their work because they sacrificed so much to be there. And they were absolutely focused on getting a job, and I felt completely humbled by being near them and also utterly unlike them because I was so unfocused and. I didn't really know why was doing this fake plan, but it didn't quite fit with who I felt myself to be that point. And so I always felt a bit of an odd one hour in the room, and I do have some fun in at, I hope not the expense of my peers that kings, but perhaps at the expense of academic culture because it is hilarious. The kind of mismatch between the sense of urgency and the incredibly nation. Things are being discussed in these seminar rooms is very, very funny to me and the remote you to sort of look out the window and you see someone is on a Boston real life is going on, and then you snap back into the room and there you all are talking about pigs and do the obscure and a new just have this horrible sense that you may be wasting your life. So where does max come into the point? So max actually is in bleak house in under the guise of the novelist friend. He was a friend from my MFA who I was horribly in love with the entire time. I was there and we end up getting together in the period of my life directly after that public by bleak house. So I've got back from the island I've arrived in undone. I'm starting my HD. Matt's is in Paris on the same fellowship that took me to the folk lands. He's in Paris writing, and he kind of gives in in some level to my absolute love him and decides he can reciprocate and that begins this this relationship that spans length of the D. And was mostly conducted at long range. It was. He went back to Boston. I was in London. It was Skype. It was emails and texts and and that was so surreal for me at the time because I was spending my days in silence in in rabbits. Weeding remedy, British library reading letters between Gaskell Norton, and then I would come home and read my own relationship via text with this other person. In Boston. So it was a very read, really experience as over relationship and not surveys. I've been in this exact same. You. And yes, the distance is tough and the time different? Yes, because it's it's an absolute dislocation. You can't much of your experiences and the whole setup of it somehow feels designed to make you feel alone, and you have this incredible disconnect with your life. So a certain point in the book max, I decide within get married and I'm incredibly lonely in London and board do my PHD and having a really, really quiet fairly sad existence. And at the same time I'm thinking, I'm gonna get married. I'm I found the love of my life and I have none of the feelings attach with that because I'm fundamentally lonely at the same time and people who can overcome that very inspiring afraid a spoiler to the region is the I did not one. I'm glad you did that because I mean, I think he's pretty much given away quite early on. Count max. However, I would like you to tell us the story of despite that work, you know your honeymoon, of course. One of the things I did to pass the time as a very reluctant PHD student was enter online competitions. You can go to the contest pages of icy, mainly pick women's magazines reason, and you just put in Email address to all of these various things. And it would was briefly diverting to me as a sort of exercise in fantasy that, you know, maybe just maybe one day a massive, brilliant suitcase, Louis Vuitton suitcases go rive in my house because I want it or maybe I'm gonna get whole wardrobe from warehouse, or you know, all of these things are put up for grabs on these contests pages, and I was sitting in the rich library one day and I see an Email and it says, congratulations. You've won a luxury honeymoon to India, and it did absolutely look like spam, and I had no memory of entering a competition to win a honeymoon. A few days prior to this, having happened Max's broken out with me. So I'm in a state of absolute emotional crisis on that front. But it did turn out to be real and I had entered a contest to win honeymoon to India. And so I went on a honeymoon with my best friend and had a really, really strange time in India surrounded by people who skipping where my husband was because they were expecting the competition winners to be nearly wets, which was a fair idea. And then I turn up with Amanda. My friend. Posing as may devan and confuse everyone. It was this horrible. I mean, wonderful because it was a free holiday and it was great, but horrible experience of all of my questions being externalised because I'm walking around absolutely heartbreaking thinking what is max? Like what has happened? Why isn't he here? And every time we get to a new hotel, someone on the staff says, has your husband? Why isn't your husband here? And all you can think is really good question, but we did every holiday, so certainly not complaining and we have given away the relationship with masters at work out. There are other things that the car in the book which we weren't necessarily give away just to finish off. Just want to talk about what you're gonna do next. So as anyone who's read bigger house will now I desperately do want to write fiction. And this book the second because confirmed that for me and not the ways I have a really interesting time using my knife in my way. Work, but it's also really, really tough, and there are legal ramifications and their moisture ramifications. And I'm aware that I have asked a lot of the people in my life to be into books of memoir and are still of myself as well. So I am writing a novel. That's this wonderful moment in MRs Gaskell letters after she has gone through all of this horrible tool with reaction to the life of Charlotte on tape, and she writes, I'm going to confine myself to lies brackets fiction in future. It is safer, and that's very much where I am to not only because I am slightly tired, I think of writing about myself. But also because I, my true love is novels and I desperately want to write one. I did actually be to ask you so. Just reminded me. I mean, how does that work? What does the person is codemax in this book think about he has been very gracious. I am aware that he at no point asked for his personal life to be covered in any way in this incredibly public forum. And I find these questions genuine, the interesting on sort of intellectual level. Where does my story end? What point does he walk into my life? And I know what point do I actually stop borrowing from his for this book and and where is that line and what my allowed to say and what shouldn't I say? Should I say, whatever I wanted to should, I never have even begun this project and they're really difficult interesting questions that you have to grapple with. If you're going to write something that says, nonfiction on the back, I do think my books on the kind of boundary between nonfiction fiction. If we didn't have to put a labor on, I would prefer not to. But the fact is he is a real person and he has real feelings about this. He. Read the book multiple drafts of the book. And that was I think, quite difficult prices for both of us. He has given it his blessing and has kept very quiet subsequently. Absolutely his right. And I totally understand why. So after talking to now Stevens, we've been talking about her book committees Gaskell mate, which is out now from Piccadilly. Now thank you went to. This was great. This episode of little atoms was produced and presented by me nail. Denny was first broadcast residents, four point, four Latin to supported by eight nine and the puck comes. And the puck comes by find his. And if you like do leaves, you could find old interviews, new journalists more on our website, little dot com. Thanks for listening.
200,000: A New Death Toll, We Take Stock Of What's Next In Pandemic
"This is Radio Boston. I'm TCI during two hundred, thousand. That's Today's number as of today more than two hundred, thousand people in the United States have died from the coronavirus in Massachusetts that number is nine, thousand, one, hundred, seven as of yesterday. We are still groping our way through this mixed messages of one of my scene might become available changing directives from the CDC on whether the virus is airborne deep disagreements on when where and how it's safe to be together, which means it is time to ask more corona virus questions. What are you need to know? Do you have questions about vaccines ventilation in schools air filters whether the virus will get worse in the cold weather? How much a flu shot matters? Ask our medical experts call now at one, eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five that's one, eight, hundred, four to three talk. We have a great panel today. Is Dr Davidson, Hamer professor of infectious diseases in medicine at the Boston University School of Medicine, and professor at the Boston University School of public. Health. Welcome back Dr Hamer. Thank you very much. Also with us is Dr Rochelle Walinsky she's the chief of the Division of Infectious Diseases at Massachusetts, General Hospital and a professor of medicine at Harvard. Medical School welcome back to you as well. Doctor Wolinsky thanks so much for having me. And again, listeners eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five that's one, eight, hundred, four to three talk. Dr Hamer what is your reaction to two? Hundred thousand? I still a little depressing, but but it's not surprising given the challenges I mean the health easy this virus is transmitted and. The. Sort of variable implementation of control measures early in the epidemic and even more recent months. and I. Think, these numbers are under the real number that there's probably a certain amount of miss sort of estimates or underestimate the total more talented socio, the virus. So you think it's even worse actually. Doctor Will Linski I'm going to play a piece of sound for you here. This is a president trump speaking to reporters in April. I think we've done a great job. As. You know minimal numbers were. Minimal numbers, we're going to be one, hundred, thousand people, minimal numbers. We're GONNA be one hundred, thousand people and we're going to be hopefully far below that. If we didn't take quick action, you could have lost many millions of people. So now here we are at double that minimal number and a new estimate out of the University of Washington is predicting we could lose nearly three, hundred, eighty, thousand people from covid nineteen by the end of this year you we are at. More than twenty percent of the covid nineteen deaths in the world despite having less than five percent of the world's population. Why have we not been able to get a handle on this virus? While I, think there's been a lot of talent is in communication and a lot of tension both in politics, and in that communication that has not led to a unified response that unified response listening to the science listening to the data being selfless in this somewhat selfish world right now is really what we need to do, and in the absence of that the viruses winning you know I think I frankly, we wasted our summer I mean summer was the time to be outside summer was the time to control this summer was the time when respiratory viruses in general don't thrive as much and we are now going into the fall into, you know cooler weather into indoor. at case rates that are twice what they were going into the summer. So I think we have real reason to be concerned. I, wish I were surprised by two hundred thousand. It's shocking devastating and tragic, but it's not surprising because we knew we were headed here with the numbers we're seeing. Let's go straight to the phones. Now Eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five, Dan's on the line from Rockland High Dan. What's your question? I thanks for taking my call. So I'm up survivor of John Beret Syndrome, which is a auto immune response. Triggered by a varying number of things but my question is I as A. Survivor, I'm not supposed to be taking flu shot because it could trigger a relapse. I'm wondering if there's any science or knowledge about any eventual vaccine, and if that would be something that I would also. Try to be you know have to avoid or or. Is there any thought on that? Would like to take that one. I'm happy to take that. I mean the the Dan. This is a challenge I mean many vaccines have given Beret Syndrome associated as a very rare side effect. I think that out of caution most twin betsy manufacturers have recommended that anybody who's had that syndrome not Steve a vaccine. I suspect it may be the same for the covid nineteen. One. If well, I guess when it becomes available But. It will be interesting to see minority. There's been one rare allergic type response in one of the vaccine trials, and so it's GonNa. Be Very interesting track for rare. Hopefully, what will be very rare events? and to see if. Syndrome arises during these the vaccine. But it it may mean future challenge for you and other survivors the syndrome. Let's let's stay on the vaccine for a minute One of the things that we know has been going on some preparations for vaccine distribution when when that time comes governor Baker said last week that high risk groups like healthcare workers, people in communities of color who have suffered disproportionately from the virus would get first access to a covid nineteen vaccine. When it becomes available, I'm I'd like to know your reaction to those priorities and is that consistent with how we've thought about vaccine distribution for other illnesses in the past? Yeah it's a great question. I'm first of all I wanNA just sort of emphasize that that kind of prioritization. Has, been. You know thought through very carefully the Advisory Committee on Asian practices and National Academy of Medicine have all been working together to figure out the best way to prioritize vaccine when it and it when I should. I should say we will all say it becomes available when I want an and one of the emphasis of the National Academy of Medicine was in fact, I'm not just vulnerable populations because of their come morbidity, other diseases that may they may have but of the social vulnerabilities that they Had because in fact we have seen just a huge discrepancy in people in who. Of Lower Socio economic status of more marginalized communities for those with this disease and I think right very appropriately, we are looking to vaccinate those those communities as a priority that said I want to be very cautious to sort of let people know that there's there's a lot of those people of any of these high risks communities out there. So twenty million healthcare workers in the United States. So we're GONNA need a lot of AC seen just to sort of think about the healthcare professionals, the essential workers, those with high risk conditions and those in these marginalized communities to before You know we really feel like we've had enough vaccine you know out there. Before I go back to the phones Dr. Hamer, just one follow up question on that a new Pew research poll finds that forty nine percent of US adults they definitely or probably would not get vaccinated word available today. So that means maybe fifty one percent definitely or probably would is that number enough to get us to the level of immunity we need to be. That's a tough question I mean there's been a lot of debate and I think early on the estimates of sort of the level that you need to have to obtain herd immunity where there's GonNa, be no further. Continued transmission the virus were in the order of two-thirds to three-quarters. Maurice Estimates Lee some that I've seen suggest it may be lower than that but. If only about half the people are willing to take the vaccine, it's GonNa be. A challenge to reach the point where where we can safely open everything and not worry about two new transmission. Let's go back to the phones here eight, hundred, four, two, eight, two, five, five that's one, eight, hundred, four to three talk to act. To ask Doctors Hamer and Wolinsky your corona virus questions they're here to answer them Maria on the line from Bill Ricca Marie what's on your mind? What's your question? Hi Thank you for taking my call I, work as a personal care assistant. To, physically disabled, very fragile child. I wonder how often I should be tested. Sure Dr Linski is that something? You think you can answer from Marie yeah, I. Think it's a great question. First of all, thank you Murray for the question you know. I would say part of this is first of all, obviously WANNA protect yourself and you WANNA protect. Your, your patient and the person for whom you're carrying I'm part of this is really about how risk you feel like you are taking on a day to day basis. If you feel like you are able to appropriately mask that you're living with people who are appropriately masking, they're not necessarily essential workers or high risk themselves. So really this is quite a bit about how much risk you feel like you might be at certainly people who are living in congregants settings, and in other you know in. In nursing homes, they're sort of looking at at a frequency of screening I don't necessarily think that healthcare workers who are protecting themselves properly need to have any kind of routine screening at all assuming that they don't be believe that they're in a high risk situation. Thank you for that. Let's grab a Katrina from Lexington Christina. Let me just put the number out one, eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five. What's your question Katrina. Hi, thank you for taking my question. So what I'm looking for is you know after several months of airlines. You know beefing up their safety measures and passengers being careful Do we have any actual data on the outcome of how safe it is to buy these days? Do we see higher rates infections among people who are flying or any kind of data driven insight on that would be helpful. It's a great question Dr. Hamer. I think also weighs heavily on people's minds because we are now beginning to head towards the holiday season when people will wanna fly if they can or drive, but probably a lot of cases to see family. So what do we know? Who? This is a very good question for question and a lot of us have been wondering how safe it is to fly these days. There's been a recent analysis with data from several different sort of I'd say exposures on flights. and there's one that was worrisome. That was. A flight Air Vietnam flight were a large. Number of people were were infected on the flight all notably in business class where they probably had more room more distance between individuals. but but then there been a few other suggestions that of transmission on flights, but it's will totally limited and I think that. I think it's not no risk but I think it's low risk. If if the you know the the airlines are doing all the things they described. if there is enough space on the flights and again, you know if they're if they're filling, you know the. Economy class with all three seats spills and not a space in the middle that's going to be pretty crowded. But then also it's a function of what people are doing on the flight. If if everyone's wearing a mask and pay attention to hand hygiene in particular, the mask us you know I think the risk is GonNa be lower the challenges on a longer flight where people need to eat or drink and they they have to take their mask off because That's the time when either if they're infected, they might be exposing others or somebody else's infected they might be exposed so. I think that there's evidence that limited evidence a transmission on flights overall and the measures are being taken are helpful, but it's not a completely safe environment. We are taking your corona virus calls today with Dr Davidson Hamer and Doctor Rochelle will Linski the number to ask your call is eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five that's one eight, hundred, four to three talk next week Mario on the line from Bedford Mario go ahead. Hi Good afternoon. Hey. So the doctor said a the beginning of the segment. We lost the summer due to people being inside the home But that was the government's initial response to the famous to do the lockdown was that a counterproductive measures to the whole respond thank you Dr will. Linski again. Mario thank you for that. Sorry. I meant to imply that we lost our summer in in our inability to really control this virus nationally and that usually if people are outside wearing masks and social distancing that the summertime is really a time where respiratory viruses like influenza don't generally thrive I. do believe that the lockdown that we had in the springtime was essential for what we Needed to do to control this, we had a a massive amount of disease in our community and our hospitals were overwhelmed and I do think at that time, we needed to shut down down and make sure that we were not contacting one. Another as things have opened up if as there's been indoor dining as there's been bars and I don't just mean in Massachusetts I mean across the nation we have not been able to limit the number the spread during the summer and that really would have been the time to do it. Dr Hamer do you think we will see another period of lockdown down here in the Commonwealth? Like we did last spring? I cannot predict that but I, I'm really quite concerned that this could happen I. Mean I think in Massachusetts in general at least many parts of the state people have been very cautious both in terms of social distancing. Public USA masks and other measures. The challenges that if you look at what's happening in a number of other parts of the world, Canada's seeing a surge of cases in Montreal in Quebec Spain and France have had a big rise recently and into to to levels that were as bad or even worse than what they had in March and April. So they're clearly experiencing a second wave Canada parts of Canada may be as well and. As as duct will Linski said, you know we're getting into the time year where people are gonNA be spending more time inside. It's cooler out. You know there's less ability to sort of even diffused the virus through through natural air flow, and so the potential risk is going to increase. So think we need to keep our guard up. If we're if we continue to be careful, we may be fortunate and not have a second wave in Massachusetts. Do then we're GONNA have to go into more intensification of measures to try and control spread of the disease. It has been a while since we've done an ask the doctors corona virus call in. You can call now at one, eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five to ask your question. We've got Ted on the line from Dorchester Ted. Go head what your question. Yes. I'm wondering are we in flu season Yak and and how does that influence whether or not? You should have a covert test A great question to Dr. Linski do you want to whoever just chuckled gets the ground? We've probably both did I don't think we're really there yet We are preparing for it for sure and that means everybody should be out getting your flu vaccines in preparation for it. Typically, we see flu peak in the December January February timeframe, and so we WANNA make sure people are vaccinated so that the vaccine is working and and and gives you good protection. By the time we have those that flu season come when flu season gets here it's going to be tricky especially if we have a lot of flu and that is because corona. Corona virus very much looks like influenza and there certainly have been cases of people who have had both corona virus and influenza I'm so it's really going to be important for people to you know, get your flu vaccine trying to protect yourself as much as you can for at least one of these one of these diseases what I will say however in in in all of that is that the Same measures that protect you from Corona virus well, also protect you from the flu. So we really hoping that this year in addition to sort of wide spread flu vaccination getting that message out that the hand washing the distancing the mask wearing will protect people both from the flu as well as from Corona virus. But when you present with symptoms that look like floor corona virus, you may very well get tested for both. And actual inskeep just briefly before I go back to the phones, what about people who are concerned to enter into a healthcare environment to get a flu shot because they're worried about getting sick in the healthcare environment? I will say that there have been now numerous studies that have demonstrated that we now know that mask wearing works both in terms of transmission of healthcare workers to one another and from patients to healthcare workers and from healthcare. Healthcare workers to patients. So our our doors are wide open It is safe to come back. We want to see you. We want you to come back and we certainly want you to get your flu shot. That really quickly, and that is that that you're pretty much all hospitals. Now of a policy of providing masks to visitors encouraging hand hygiene and other measures that are gonNA, really minimize the risk of of exposure in a healthcare setting. So I. It's definitely safe. Crew patients become back. And I have to say I I got my flu shot on Saturday and felt completely safe doing. So in an out very quickly it is. It's not a scary step to take, and it is an important one. This year we've got winona on the phone from Winchester, Winona. What's your question? Thank you I am calling with concern that the. issue by CDC that was published. The Excuse me. So. Aerosol spread of the virus With breathing coughing sneezing, what all of those. that obviously it is a scientific fact. And the fat, and now that CDC has been inappropriately advised. by. The leadership. of our country that that will be withdrawn as a method of. spread. How I'm I'm GonNa help you with that just to kind of clarify for our listeners. So at the end of last week, the CDC put up guidance referring to possible stretch spread. Airborne Spread and then removed that guidance I. Believe it was the end of the day yesterday. So let's turn that to Dr Hamer. I'm glad you raised that one owner that was something I was hoping we were GonNa talk about today. Yeah? No I agree winona This I fully share your concerns about this I. It's complex. We've learned a lot about transmission of SARS covy to over last few months. And we now recognize that that it it's it's can be spread through Aerosol that at least the the there is an aerosol generated by people are infected. It's and that can spread beyond just sort of six feet that we've been using large respiratory droplets, which are occur with breathing but especially with coughing or sneezing, tend to drop down to the ground after three to succeed. But there's a lighter aerosol that can go much further it can go several nine, twelve CD than. I think CDC is making a comment about this. But all all of these you know in order to prevent exposure to these mask uses really critical. I I personally have great concerns about what's happening with oversight of the CDC. A lot of smart people they prolonged their guidelines and to post something, and then to have it rescinded days later is, is I think. Since. It's almost censorship really and the conflicts I think they're initial data. Are, are really trying to use the best available information and there's more and more information that's been generated in recent weeks or months on aerosols, and the fact that they are infective like that. You can actually culture live virus from their sauce and there's definitely a risk So it's unfortunate that that they've had to you know that this has happened. To build on that ask Dr Wolinsky. Okay. But if it starts to raise concerns that we can't trust the information coming from the C. D. C.? So I I, guess the the dot on that is tell me we can still trust the information coming from the CDC where else people should turn for for reliable information other than when we get lucky enough to have the two of you show answer questions. Yeah. Thank you. You know I think I'm with Dr Hamer and that it's just It's objecting actually because I, think both of us and and the whole scientific community knows lifelong public servants, incredible scientists, researchers, and and colleagues who live at the CDC and are doing incredible work there and and same is true for the FDA will say because I know that this discussion not only speaks to the you know what's happening at the CDC in the public facing statements from the CDC. But also those of the FDA I think we in the scientific community are are. You know looking to. Now we're looking to primary literature. We're looking to people who know or the public servants who've done the scientific work and trying to sort of separate the wheat from the chaff in terms of the messaging of it, but this is going to get tricky I've been you know looking more to the NIH now than the CDC or the FDA perhaps but I think you know especially as we think about the public messaging of of how this virus is transmitted and then in the future about. How vaccines has really been on everybody's mind you know when when is the vaccine safety effect efficacious and ready to use I will be looking to the scientific data rather than necessarily the statements from the from the FDA? and Dr Hamer. We have to say goodbye to momentarily a so I can't take any more calls, but there was one saying if you're a symptomatic will always be a symptomatic they're like a yes or no answer you could give to that. There's A. Sort of mixed answer I some some people remain nascent. And we may maybe it may you know the age related with younger people maintaining asymmetric state through their whole infection more commonly than older people? and they're probably other other factors but but clearly, some people when they're tested may be asymmetric to begin with an and after a one four days developed symptoms and that's what's known as a pre-symptomatic phase of infection and that's So not everybody stays asymptomatic. All right that is Dr Davidson Hamer Professions professor of infectious disease in medicine at the Boston University School of Medicine. Thank you very much. Thank you for having. And actor was shall Wolinsky Chief of the Division of Infectious Diseases at Massachusetts General Hospital. Thanks to you too. Thanks so much for having me. A new report released by citizens for juvenile justice. Just last hour is making the case to remove police officers called school resource officers from Massachusetts schools. For more, we are joined by the Executive Director of the group Leon Smith. Leeann welcome to Radio Boston. Thank you for having me. And Leon before we start our discussion I just WanNa know note we did reach out to the Boston Public Schools to Mayor Walsh's office and the National Association of School Resource Officers to invite them to participate in this conversation but we didn't hear back from them in time for the show what is the difference Leon between just start here between a school resource officer and other police officers and how common are these school resource resource officers in Massachusetts? Well at school resource officer is a police officer that is actually played in station inside of a school. So not a situation where in officers patrolling the community they receive a call and then they respond to school they're in a school, all the time So full data effectively the difference and they are rather common across the Commonwealth. Sense of the numbers I think there I see a report from two thousand, Fifteen, twenty sixteen that forty eight percent of high school students thirty three percent of middle school students attended school with a police officer. Effort. Okay. So as we as we lead towards your findings I just want to understand how do we get to the point where that many of our students are in schools with a police officer assigned in the school? Will there's a long history and when you look at the issue of school. Of police officer in school there really is a race history that they've all the way back to integration The first police officers in schools were in the nineteen fifties in Flint Michigan in response to Brown versus board of Education, and it was really about a lot of rhetoric around black and Brown children being dangerous delinquents and undesirable with ring quote just order to white schools and over the years into the sixties and seventies we've continued to see. The growth in school resource officers placed especially in predominantly black and brown schools really culminating ask their Sandy Hook took place. So in two thousand, twelve in Massachusetts are the Commonwealth. Pathak Gun Violence Reduction Act with the effectively mandated to district assigning one school resource officers there unless they do a waiver process though that's still most recently, it was concerned about school shootings, the legacy of school shootings since two thousand, twelve in Massachusetts that's been our driver. Yes. But interestingly, enough that is often quoted as a reason for. But when we looked at the data from all report we found that there was little convincing evidence that the presence of armed police officer had much of an effect on school safety at all we looked at. So I was just going to say just for listeners, your report actually has a giant F- in, red on the cover. On which is damning. So take us briefly through those findings. Yes absolutely. So you know I we always here we need police officers in schools because what about a school shooting? Well, we looked at a Meta analysis which took twelve studies and none of them indicated a positive impact of police presence on school. Safety Outcomes. Furthermore in twenty eighteen, the Washington Post Lipid nearly two hundred incidents of gun violence on campuses and could only find two times when SRO successfully intervene in a shooting. So effectively, you know all though the school shooting argument is often made. You know. Proof that it works isn't really backed up as we only seem to be effective in one percent of those occurrences. So. What just for listeners SRO as a school resource officer? What kind of outcomes would you have expected to see in your Meta analysis had placement of school resource officers in Schools Ben Successful or effective according to your organization. Thirty one percent. What than one one percent of shootings being prevented is that what you're talking about? Certainly. I mean. But you know. It's strong out as an argument in justification. But when you look at the actual data, it is nowhere near the sectors and I think some people would think you know some of our other findings really gets to the point that. You know. People Equate Safety in schools. With the placement of police but when you look at the research. There isn't data backup a police officer in schools really make them safer but there are a number of negative effects of police officers being in schools we see that. What happens when you have an Austrian school? All of the time is that low level non violent behaviors to have historically been handled do to school disciplinary system are steadily being criminalized and that criminalization of lower-level, often typical. Behaviors fall disproportionately on black and brown stone and on students with disabilities. And you know part of the reason why is what is considered subject to? School disciplines being sent to the principal's office versus what's considered. You know criminal or delinquent or something where the off the school police officers should be brought in those lines are so blurred even sa rose aren't clear on them. We have situations right here in the Commonwealth where in one town certain behavior handle bicycle discipline in the next town over. It can be subject to arrest in. That creates a great deal of disproportionality, which is a major argument for why we really should not have police, officers and cool. So a couple of questions there, your report was just released our go. This is really fresh. Did you preview your findings with anyone who might push back or disagree on them and if you did what has that response Ben and if not have you heard any critical responses yet is you've heard we we invited some guests to join us but they do not get responses before the show. We have just just released a report today. But what I will say is that we believe that our researches found and we certainly welcome the discussion we stand by our statistics fan by data we stand by the research which we did in conjunction with strategies for youth another Massachusetts based nonprofit, and we certainly welcomed the opportunity to talk about you this year with anyone. You know we talked about the fact that after twenty twelve in the Commonwealth the concern in part in bringing school resource officers in was a school shooting like Parkland irs or Sandy Hook these tragic shootings, the report points out that if there were not school resource officers in the building, that school could still call nine one, one emergency situation. And I found myself thinking. Isn't there some benefit to having someone in the building to respond to that kind of emergency who knows the building knows the students? Might they actually escalate less than what a nine one one call to a precinct might produce? Well first of all I think we have to acknowledge that those types of steriod incidents are far and away the exception and not the will. So what happens now what you have officers that are stationed in a school is the officers standing there observing students every day, and again, you have just typical adolescent behaviors kids clowning around kids being kids. which ends up being criminalised furthermore. There are situations where young people they're talking. They're having conversation there's really no privilege or. At the pertain to a police officer listening in thinking about the recent situation in Boston where observations and over her conversations amongst young people ended up in a gang database in creating not just the school to prison pipeline, but the school to prison to deportation by one. So what happens when you build an entire policy? Around the type of current disarray rarity. You Know One Those things often they don't often happen. But, you're building English action. But yes. But then the daily reality is that you're creating a negative school climate. We've seen it that negative school climate leads to less positive academic outcomes. And in some cases, you're literally the presence of that officer has a traumatizing rather than comforting effect on a lot of students specimen time that we're in right now. Let's stay on that because that was really strikingly on your report discusses racial differences in whether school officers create a sense of safety and ended says that one two lanes study found that sixty nine percent of white students said they felt safer the presence of police while only forty percent of black students said the same thing and I found that really striking after last week when the Supreme Judicial Court ruling. said that nervous and agitated quote unquote behavior among black citizens could no longer be considered suspicious behavior by police given the suggests it might be a rational response for a black person to be nervous around the police. So are we seeing mirrored in the school resource officers and their interactions in schools? The same questions and concerns were having about interactions between our black community peace and police on a larger scale. At Louis, I mean our our schools do not exist in a bubble they exist within our communities where incidents of police abuse police brutality happened they haven't on camera and they happen off camera in young people. See this they know people in their families had these experiences sometime, stadium cells have been stopped and fifth and padded down and things certainly have access to technology where they see what's happening not just to adults. We must always remember that the the modern black lives matter movement really started with two teenagers, Trayvon Martin, and Mike Brown who were the victims of this sort of violence. So you have that she waistlines one. Police brutality has been a reality in the black community for nearly a hundred years. The first March against police brutality happened in nineteen nineteen. This is not into a current. But. You know being in an era where on social media on the news you're consistently seeing these things happened and a lot of these young people I draw on my experience at the sense attorney for nineteen years they endured these behaviors as well and then they go into school in seeing officer that's not a comforting sight. Double that with this study by A reason study that was conducted. That showed that when black particularly blackmails. have frequent contact with law enforcement. In that contacted intrusive meaning their spots there padded down are they searched they have increasingly. Increasingly, increasing levels of anxiety. And you're. Up to post traumatic stress disorder, you have young people I'm sorry I'm so sorry interrupting I going to have to end us there do need to leapt segment on the show, but it was great to have you and I. Hope you'll come back and talk to us more about this. That's Leon Smith Executive, director of citizens for juvenile justice stay tuned. There's more ahead. Today Sudbury police announced that they are charging to parents and their teenager under the state's social host law. At issue, the family allegedly hosted a party at their private residence where police say at least fifty miners consumed alcohol and as a result of the party. Lincoln Sudbury regional high school switched to all remote learning for two weeks and there in lies the rub. Normally a high school party isn't the type of new story we'd cover. But this isn't normally and the decision by the Sudbury police raises an interesting question. Would the police have charged? This family anyway, they did break the law or is this a sign of a new phase in the pandemic? Will we start turning to civil and criminal law to compel each other to corona virus compliance now tomorrow we're GonNa take your calls on how you are feeling about and navigating the need or the desire to be social during the pandemic. But today we want to explore this legal question and the status of personal freedoms during this public health crisis joining us to do so is civil liberties attorney Harvey Silverglate, Harvey Welcome, back to Radio Boston. Good to be back after a while. So Harvey I WANNA know we don't know much beyond what I've already said about this particular case but even with the information we have what do you make of it? Any sense that this might be the shape of things to come. Well I think this is the shape of things to come while the PIN DEMOC is waging I don't think that it's going to result in any permanent change. In the law. but you know law accommodates extraordinary circumstances and when the extraordinary circumstances disappeared the law usually at least it's supposed to go back to being what it was before the emergency. and the law is not blind to the realities out on the street. And so while narrowly the police would have no say. About such a gathering because you were just describing. In a pandemic. The police and the state do have something to say, and they say it, and if the if they're commands who disobeyed, they will proceed with a criminal charge. So we're heading toward Mary Times for civil liberties and criminal. Law. And when asked you couple of questions based on that the first is so in this case, there was law that covered the illegality of the party from drinking standpoint the the question. The question is whether the CO vid aspect of it was really what motivated the police to act? Is it unusual in a public health crisis like this and these are accusations we don't. There hasn't been a trial nobody has been convicted. In a situation like this, do we see the use of existing law applied in new ways for public health? Well, first of all, I doubt very much to police would have made such a big fuss over just the underage drinking. I think it was combination of the underage drinking but more importantly, it was the gathering without face masks in close proximity without social distancing of a group of people during a pandemic. With the governor, his issued orders. Prohibiting such gatherings. So that's the other question with the pandemic, the governor and other governors have asserted this power you called it extraordinary circumstances a couple of minutes ago we are seeing some pretty significant protests around the country and around the world pushing back on restrictions to to behavior. I'm thinking about the armed people lining the walls of the Michigan State House back in the spring, the anti mask rally. In Utah On. August that footage of it went viral last week, and then you know there have been anti mass protests in London Melbourne Rome Madrid, where is the line between public health and civil liberties and is this pushback appropriate in this moment or is it overly fearful of a kind of a crackdown? That's that's not gonNA permanently threaten people's sense of freedom and and way of life. But let me put it this way. The law allows you pretty much to do to yourself whatever it is you WANNA do. You want to eat unhealthy food you can eat unhealthy food. If you WANNA not brush your teeth, lose all your teeth and your twenties. You can do that. The law doesn't stop you from. Self inflicted wounds if I can use that term. But the problem with the pandemic. Is that if you don't take care of yourself, you are likely to have a very destructive impact on somebody else next to you. So if you have the Cova. And you get close to somebody we don't within six or eight feet You are endangering that person if you don't have a mask and so it's not just a problem of the law forcing you to take care of yourself. The law is forcing you to not inflict damage on other people. And that's the RUB so ordinary. stippled libertarian. I consider myself to be a very strong civil libertarian. I would say that the state has no right to keep from hurting yourself. But it does have a right to keep you from hurting somebody else. And that's the problem. This is a very painful period that people who believe in liberty who believe in strict limitations on the power of the state. You said at the beginning you talked about you know we're in these extraordinary circumstances. You didn't have a concern that when the extraordinary circumstances were over that, we would continue to see use of the law in this way I found myself thinking. Okay. But who says when the extraordinary circumstances are over how how do we know when we're out of that moment and? Continuing crackdowns aren't appropriate and shouldn't be happening how I can just hear the slippery slope concern in the listener's mind on this. Well there's always a slippery slope concern whenever we allow. The government to. Exert enhanced powers. And it's really a matter of being very. Observant. Following things carefully looking at the science. Ours is a society that. Places a strong reliance on science. in order to determine when the emergency when the crisis over and then civil libertarians and anyone who cares about freedom has to push back hard to make sure that the government which is certainly these extraordinary powers Drops. This asserts them and goes back to the status quo before the emergency. Do, you think that there will be a long tale on any of this. So for example, I never took my shoes off in an airport before two thousand and one and I will take my shoes off in an airport for the rest of my life We think differently now about Faisal warrants. Or other aspects of the Patriot Act that it become part of our everyday existence after nine eleven. Is there anything that you think will change between the law and Public Health that may change permanently? I don't think. So because this is very different from nine eleven. The the threat of terrorism and bombs planted on an explosive devices taking on the airplanes. is, is I think that's forever But? The nature of pandemic is at some point it burns itself out or there's a vaccine we we've had at the Democrats in the past I was a young kid with polio epidemic. there were certain steps taken when the polio epidemic past the steps were no longer necessary. And and they disappeared. So we have to be vigilant to make sure that government doesn't use this as an excuse. To. Retain enhanced powers and I think that that especially in Massachusetts which has a long history of being a little bit suspicious government which I think think we'll be. Okay. So last question for you. Then Harvey are you comfortable with and do you think right now we have the right balance between use of the law to preserve us in this public health moment and our civil liberties. It sounds to me like you're saying you're comfortable with the balance what we have in place. Well. You using the word that I don't usually use to describe myself. Comfortable. Come to. A comfortable no do I think is that the government has asserted about as much power as he needs. For currently yes I'm okay with that. But I always prefer to keep my eyes open What's the old expression trust but verify trusting the government on this one but I'd like to keep my eyes open and verify. And that is very silverglate. Felt okay. Does puts me at ease Harvey Harvey's attorney social at specializing civil liberties. Harvey. Thanks for coming on today. My pleasure. and. That's our show for today. Radio Boston is produced by Jamie Bologna Zoe Mitchell Chris Citric Paris Austin, and Walter Whitman Tim scope is our technical director with engineering today by Jimmy Kiessling our executive producer is attached Hoffy I'm TCI deering. Thanks for listening today, and join us again tomorrow for more Radio Boston.
Northeastern University Dismisses 11 Students, Without Returning Their $36,500 Tuition Fees, for Violating COVID-19 Rules
"Brought to you by lucky charms magical mission. Let lucky the Leprechaun take you and your kids on an interactive adventure through the eight magical charm lands to restore magic available on your smart. Speaker just say open lucky charms, magical mission or search for it wherever you listen to podcasts. Northeastern. University dismisses eleven students without returning their thirty six thousand, five hundred dollars tuition fees for violating covid nineteen rules by Tara Law. Northeastern University dismissed eleven first year students for violating social distancing rules but held onto their tuition payments. The Boston University. Dismissed the students after two staff members from their program called them gathering at the Westin Hotel which is being used as university housing during the pandemic the school said on Friday the Boston Globe reported the university will not return a thirty, six, thousand, five, hundred, dollar fee the students each prepaid to take part in the semester. Long in U. N. program an international study experienced that now has a location in Boston due to covid nineteen however, the students will still be permitted to officially enroll as freshmen. This January, the university told Time. The students have been informed that they are no longer part of the northeastern community for the fall semester they have the right to contest their dismissal at an expedited hearing the university said in a statement. The, students were told Friday to vacate the hotel within twenty four hours and to receive covid nineteen tests at the university. The school said the university plans to move any of the students who tested positive into wellness housing to the viruses spread. Cooperation and compliance with public health guidelines is absolutely essential said, Madeline Esta, Brooke Senior Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs in a statement. Those people who do not follow the guidelines, including wearing masks of wedding parties and other gatherings practicing healthy, distancing, washing your hands and getting tested are putting everyone else at risk. The university noted that students in the in UN program have repeatedly been warned to practice social distancing stay out of crowds and wear masks around other people. Students were also asked to acknowledged reviewing the programs handbook, which included a ban on guests, visitors, or additional occupants, students rooms to contain the spread of covid nineteen. Esther Brooke addressed the rules in an August twenty eighth letter to students. Students who host unsafe, no masks and without healthy distancing gathering. So or party either on or off campus can expect suspension she road students who attend an unsafe gathering social or party either on or off campus can expect suspension. In recent weeks, professors and public health experts have raised concerns about whether colleges and universities can be opened safely for. Classes given the level of community spread in the United. States across the country thousands of college students at schools like the University of Alabama have tested positive for the virus. While some reports have faulted students for partying and otherwise failing to social distance. Others have argued that universities are at fault for choosing to reopen and then blaming outbreaks on young students.
Angela Onwuachi-Willig's 'The fire this time' - balancing personal and professional responses to the murder of George Floyd
"The killing of George Florida course continues to reverberate around the world including strata. It was the latest in a long line of killings of African American Americans by police, and as we heard a sadly in the news has been yet another killing in America I've not. George Floyd's death is understandably especially traumatizing re traumatizing event for people of Color in the US professor Angela on Watchi-, willing is the Dean of Boston University School of law, the first person of color to hold that position. and. She turned to the words of James Baldwin. The novelist playwright, poet and activist to help her feelings of paralysis in the wake of the killing. Baldwin is one of the great voices of the Civil Rights era here he is giving an address at Berkeley, college in Nineteen seventy nine, speaking about a debate between Malcolm X. and a young man that Baldwin moderated. Malcolm X. and I met many years ago. And knock on this black Muslim. Malcolm was one of those beautiful. One of the most gentleman. I met in all my life. Yes boy question. Which I present to you. If you are citizen. Why you had to fight with civil rights. Violated Civil Rights. Means you're not a citizen. That was James Baldwin. Addressing Berkeley College in Nineteen Seventy Nine Danja on watching Willie. Her response to the killing of George Floyd, in a very powerful letter to his students, which ends quoting Baldwin and we'll begin this morning with some audio of Angela reading from that letter. It's a couple of minutes long, but as you'll hear, it's well worth every second and more. I am the mother of two black sons and one black daughter. I fear for their lives whenever they step outside. As a mother of black children I both envy resent the freedom with which mother's white children parent. They never have to balance that delicate line between teaching their children how to ensure their survival after a police stop and crushing their spirit while doing so. Because a very lesson derives from another that black lives are not valued in our society. Like, so many black people in this country I. See my family and myself in George Floyd. Ahmad arbitrary and Brianna Taylor because I know just like they do that. Our loved ones, and even I could be next. and. These feelings are exploding. What is already a difficult time? As a black woman and dean of Law School, the first dean of Color at Boston University School of law. I struggled what message I should send to my students. I even wondered if I could send a message about the deaths of Riyan Taylor Ahmad arbitrary. George Floyd Tony mcdaid imagining the backlash when certain words came out of my black mouth, perhaps surprising to some of you, racism regularly disempowers the seemingly powerful dean. And yet if we feel powerless, imagine what it feels like for those not so economically are professionally privileged. I knew not only that I had to write, but also what I must right after telling his nephew that the boy's father Baldwin's brother was defeated long before he died because at the bottom of his heart. He really believed that white people said about him. Baldwin shared two sentences that I. will share with You my students. With one omission. The message goes. You can only be destroyed. Believing that you really are what the white world calls you. I tell you this because I love. You and please don't ever forget that. That was professor Angela on Watchi- willing writing a letter to her students at the Boston University School of law in the wake of the killing of George Floyd, and I'm very pleased to say that professor on what you will joins us now welcome to Sunday, Extra Angela. Thank you thank you for having me. It's a great pleasure. Can I ask just by can start just by asking you a? How hard it must have been to write that letter and what the response to its bay. It was incredibly hard to write that letter I mean number one just from an emotional standpoint because I was really having to both grapple with my emotions, and then also You know grappling with the you know the the message that I- internally I think also externally get about what's appropriate for our law dean to say. Publicly. So really really struggling for for many many hours and being tire weekend, and and and even longer out with writing that message. But the response has been really very positive the response from my students. Of course it's been incredibly positive. I think for many of them. It's it said what they were feeling gave them voice at for many of my law by the alumni. Has Been incredibly positive and just people who have no connection to the law school at all. It's been incredibly positive until I think people appreciate it very much. someone in my position was willing to. To give voice to that point of view and was willing to speak out, and so it's been overwhelmingly positive. That's great to hear. This horrible event of George Floyd's killing really does relied very directly to work that you've done as a legal academic in particular on the subject of collective trauma. Can you tell us what what you mean by collective trauma, and how in your view on how that impacts on people coloring America? Yes, I do looking at work on looking group-based trauma looking at cultural, trauma. Of African Americans related to sort of police or quasi police killings, something like a neighborhood watchman who shoot someone like George Zimmerman. A young teenager in the United States called Trayvon Martin, which was a case of. A lot of attention almost ten years ago in twenty twelve and not just the I think there's a lot of cultural trauma which means basically it's it something that happens that forever changes the group. The group sense of identity, the group's sense of the world right And and it's response to the world and their stories and narratives and and actions that sort of come out of it, and the narrow ration- of that change that comes out of it What's the overall impact right? So we have individual trauma, which is really psychological trauma, and so I was talking more about a sociological trauma, right? A group based trauma until looking at the impact of these killings and more so the lack of any kind of sanction. Kind of legal outcome on african-american A, and that's the thing sort of the expectation after so much terrible experience that they want, there might not be. Charges or they have been charged in this case or convictions? How do you feel about the prospect of conviction? In the case of George Fluids killing. I mean it's it's really hard I mean. Right and so I mean a on the one hand I think that I i. hope for a conviction and yet I also say to myself I I. Dare to hope for conviction right I I hope for a conviction. I hope that the jury sees that video and sees what I see. They see officer that has no regard for the life of George Floyd that is on a man's neck. Which I think a child would know, would restrict the breathing of a man. And and an an disregards warnings of people around him. disregards people around him who are saying he can't breathe disregards to warrant of. Of George, Floyd. WHO SAYS YOU CAN'T BREATHE Who has physical reactions to it? You know that you must be able to feel at some point when you don't feel am under you anymore. ignores those ignores cries of somebody who says at one point He's human man. Officer, ignoring all those things and thinks that is murder i. hope that a jury would see those things and would convict. And Yet So much of what we have seen over. The years You know does not allow me to. Say with. That a jury, would convict in such a case and they're so much and our jury system. That makes me worry that you, wouldn't you. There's so much structurally that would prevent a jury that will would be positioned to convict to be seated and so I I worry about it, and you saw even when Keith Ellison who is the? Attorney General in Minnesota talked about it, he said well he wanted to preface even when they were charges that Atar to get a conviction of officer we mean. How often do prosecutors give those kinds of statements? On a prosecutor starting with that was that's that's disappointing. Dane on watching Willie gives you've also written about. How killings like these can bring people together, although in a disturbing way, you've written about how previous killings of bought. The black community together and bought the white community together but not. Separately if you like, do you? Do you feel that there is a prospect that with this killing in the reaction to it, which does seem to have affected? Public opinion in White America as well that there is the prospect of genuinely unifying moment in America. I do think there is a prospect of there is something about this moment that feels different from others, and yet I dare say that feels different from others you know. Something about this moment that seems different from others it, you know. The protests have been have lasted longer. It seems like even though it hasn't been longer than. A a couple of weeks, but it seems like that the anger is more intense. It seems like the number of people in power that have spoken out. has been higher the number of courts have issued really impactful statements now and the kinds of statements. A court issued in this moment. are are statement that you haven't seen in the past and so i. think that we're seeing things that we haven't seen before, so it seems like we might see changes. that that have not previously occurred, and we have seen some changes in meaningful changes already, but but again. I don't want to I get. It's probably a protection mechanism, but I don't want to you know. Count my eggs before they've. Cheated before they've hatch absolutely absolutely, and you can understand that that reservation giving the given the terrible history of. These crimes and the the the prosecution lack thereof of them. Angela and watch willing. Thank you so much for speaking with us on Sunday extra this morning. Thank! You thank you. Thank you for your work. It's been great to have you. That was professor. Angela on Watchi- Willingly Dane of Boston University School of law who wrote that really powerful letter to his students in the wake of the killing, of George, Floyd,
How To Keep Schools Safe As College Students Return To Campus?
"Thousands of students are going back to Boston University and Northeastern University this week and next the two largest universities in the city of Boston and we want to talk about it but I have to be transparent right off the top here because I moved my own freshman daughter Simone into a Boston University dorm this past weekend, and once the bedsheets were on the suit on and the suitcases were empty everything was all impact. We had a brand new item on are moving list. It was her first Cova test which she was required to get the day she moved in. there was a little to with some liquid in it and on top of that, there was a swab I told you not to touch with your hands. You unscrewed the swab put it in both nostrils rolled around a little bit. Then put it down into the liquid of the tube enclosed again. Then use gave him the tube. So took about five minutes. Now. Whether you have a college age kid or not with dozens of colleges and universities in. Greater. Boston this uncharted territory of keeping students and community safe while supporting student learning is essential. So we're going to delve into it and to do that, we have to people who are involved in these decisions. One is joining us now and we expect to. Have the other on the line soon. So we're joined right now by Dr David Hammer. He's a professor of Global, health at Boston University, school, of public, health and school of Medicine, and also a member of the medical advisory group, which advises the University on the Public Health Measures Recommendations being implemented on campus this fall Dr Hamer welcome back to Radio Boston. Thank. You for having me. Our glad to have you and that was perfect because we now have our other guests with us as well Kathy Spiegelman who is vice president and chief of campus planning and development at northeastern. Kathy welcomed Radio Boston. Thank you. And listeners, you are you a parent A neighbor of college or university? How do you feel about campuses reopening? Do you have questions for experts? You can call us eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five, eight, hundred, four to three talk or you can tweet us at Radio Boston. Okay. Dr Hamer I want to start by touching on some of the big headlines in college reopenings over the last couple of weeks both the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill and Notre Dame have moved to fully remote learning after the coronavirus clusters on campus? University. Of Alabama in Tuscaloosa just reported over five hundred confirmed cases I want to ask you what are you doing to make sure a similar situation doesn't play out at your school. Let's a good question I. think that we. We've looked at some of the strategies these other universes have taken and I. Think we're we're. Taking a much more. D- approach it was even more aggressive on. So so as you mentioned with a case of your daughter at Boston University, we are requiring everyone who arrives to be tested on arrival If they're coming if the students moving in from a state that has higher levels of transmission than Massachusetts England than they're advised to do quarantine the first fourteen days although we're we made clear them from quarantine sooner if if they have three negative tests. they the move move in is being done in d. densify ways so that people have to schedule the day they move in. Normally it's a three day period that everyone returns to campus is spread out over fifteen days or thereabouts. And the There's just a lot of different additional measures, but I think testing is a real key part of it. We've built a laboratory to do our own testing. And the turnaround time and test is less than twenty four hours. This is important because if somebody students identified who is infected than they need to be isolated in, we have isolation dorm rooms that we've developed woncern isolation. They have to stay there for at least ten days or potentially a little longer they've had symptoms with our onus. And, they would do their classes from those isolation rooms. We UNC that as just an example didn't have a sufficient number of isolation beds than they've very rapidly them but they also had a different testing strategy. WE'RE GONNA be testing students twice a week. As well as faculty and staff that have a lot of student facing contact. A lot of time on campus others will be tested once a week or potentially less often if they say it's a faculty member that's only intermittently on campus. So testing is a key part of it is well as isolation in contact tracing to see if there's any close context of students that are infected. Those people are identified quickly estes to actually placed in quarantine. And they become symptomatic than than initial testings done. Everyone's as sorry. Yeah. I I. SORT OF STOPPED THERE Thanks, because I love to hear from Cathy Spiegelman as well. What the plan is at northeastern I know you just made a change in student be tested I. believe every three days there and I know be you has more students on campus now that the timing for neath northeastern a little further out. So so what's your process look like? What are you guys doing? Well, it looks very much like what was just described I'm not the testing expert but I have been following very closely because my team has been working on setting up the testing facility both the lab and the testing facility and your daughter's description is very similar. To what's been going on, we've done eight thousand tests so far the move in Situ system for us sounds a little bit different We are moving happening over eleven days. It usually happens over three to five and we're doing that in order to reduce the density and allow us to have the stream of people coming in and getting tested to be handled as conveniently and easily as possible The parents of our students will not be going up to their dorm rooms and making their beds and setting them up. They've been notified that no visitors are gonNA come into the dorms during move in As soon as a family arrives at their assigned time, the student will be sent over to pick up their What we call their Husky card go directly to the testing center. And, then go directly to their room where they will be technically in quarantine until their test results come back negative. Obviously, if the test results don't come back negative, they will be transferred to the beds that we're reserving that we call wellness beds, which will be used both for students who test positive, but also through the contact tracing for students who've been exposed in order to make sure that we take them out of contact with a lot of the rest of the community. So. It sounds very similar to be you. I think differences that were described by the doctor are also the differences at northeastern from some of the other universities that have run into the difficulties that you described. will say that because I spend a lot more time thinking about the physical campus and how we are handling all the things that living and learning activities require under the guidance of. The CDC and the Department of Public Health. So lots of attention lots of science lots of We have a campaign called protect the pack which reinforces for students, their responsibility to protect themselves and each other with healthy distancing wearing masks on campus, washing their hands, and then following all the protocols that we've developed about reducing the density in our classrooms and our dining facilities cleaning. Air Handling in our buildings but also paying attention to the public round because we know that our students are not just going to be in the dorms and in the classrooms they're coming back to campus they're coming to Boston to live there campus life, and we're so very anxious for them to be able to do that to pursue their education without any disruption for the surrounding community or for. Everybody else who's on the campus? So to that point of the public realm and listeners. We just got very detailed explanations of exactly what is happening at these two huge institutions in Boston as students come back. What is your reaction? Does it does it make you feel safer? Are there concerns? Do you have clarifying questions? What are you want to see from the university in your community in terms of learning and safety eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five. That's one, eight, hundred, four to three talk. These are massive investments, massive measures that you're both talking about what do you say to the listener? Who says I appreciate all of that but students simply should not be back on campus It's too risky and you cannot control their choices and behaviors when they're not in the dorms or in the buildings why is being on campus important enough to make it worth all of this Dr. Hamer. I think it's important for students to have both interaction with other students, but to be able to directly interact with faculty to heaven in class experience. I think some students may learn very well, you know via zoom other modalities, but others don't and I think that that and then being able to do clever to projects with other students no in person rather than over the Internet I, think all of these are really important components of the students education. Not. Not offering them that that opportunity that they I think that it it really changes the whole sort of tenure or feel for for a student's education. And Karen Spiegelman. What do you do about the challenges of off campus life? So many of the stories that we're hearing about new clusters emerging universities students go back keep coming back to it was that off campus party where people didn't wear masks, they didn't practice social distancing. So the campaign that I described called protect the pack includes a series of communications and also compliance reinforcement a tip line, some extra staffing and ambassadors to be working with students whether they're living in northeastern housing or they're living in other housing in the community I will echo the idea that we believe that The education of our students is very important that their choices to be able to participate. In the living and learning that happens on campus is important that our students are choosing to many of our students not all some are choosing to actually pursue their education virtually, and we've given that option to do it but I think the testing and the protocols and the way the contact tracing and the things that we're doing on campus we hope actually makes our students a cohort of citizens within the Boston Community who actually are practicing all the things that we hope everybody in the Boston community is practicing because we all have a responsibility to each other in Uttar this pandemic to be looking out for the health of ourselves and our neighbors. So let's. Mid We're asking students to be. Committed along. With. I want to go to the phones before I do Kathy at college a care in a minute ago. I'm so sorry I know it's Kathy. Has a brain last let's go to the phones eight, hundred, four, two, eight, two, five, five that's eight hundred four to three talk. We've got Donna on the line from Brockton Donna go ahead. I JUST WANNA to know if there's going to be clear consequences for students that party or congregate and don't socially just like supposed to like we've been on the news as he's GonNa be clear consequences are they're going to be taken out of school just like any other Thing that they do bad like plagiarism or fighting or anything like that are they going to be clear consequences that this is not accepted at all? Thanks. And Kathy I. Think you touched on that a second ago? Right saying that we're answering northwestern literally answer's absolutely yes. We understand that we can only protect each other and be the kind of citizens and members of the community that we wanna be by making it clear that those big gatherings where people are not wearing masks are not practicing the safe protocols that we've established will not be allowed. To grab another call here, eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five, that's one, eight, hundred, four to three talk Jill, you're on from South Boston go ahead. Hi My name is Jill I'm a graduate of Boston, University of two, thousand seventeen and I just wanted to add I think that the value of being on campus is so important to student life and you know great gave so much to me as a student during my four years and I think that the way that the university is implemented, the measures would. Make. Me Feel completely safe to the student I just looked over there twenty page comprehensive get back to campus plan and I feel I would feel completely safe and there is a lot of personal responsibility that goes into it as well so I think the students have everything at their fingertips and they just need to choose to implement make the good decisions And I think I commend you for that. Thank you Jill Dr Hamer. Stay put because we have a second call about you'll take them both again. Then give you a chance to respond we've got Jason on the line from Stoneham Jason Go ahead. I'm actually a faculty. You and I have to I have to call into question whether it's worth letting students prioritizing student learning over public health and I know for a fact as the faculty member that students are not going to get much of an class experience most of the learning is going to be online at the. So that's really false advertising. All right. Thank you for that call. So two very different perspectives there from an obviously we can't confirm that Gills and Jason is faculty but two very different calls about Bu there Dr. Hamer what are your responses? I mean I I'd like to thank Joe for her positive comments. We put a lot of time into the you returned to campus planned very detailed, and so it is a little. but I think they it's thorough and comprehensive, and with with the trying to make the campuses safe as possible to maintain the health of new faculty staff in Students My slightly disagree with Jason You know I think you're partly right. There's going to be a mixture of in class and out of class experience students have the option of shaking everything remotely summer doing that I'm all classrooms have had mapping done to determine appropriate density I'm GONNA be teaching starting in I guess a week and a half or so and the classroom that I have allows up to sixteen students I teach a seminar type core said we twenty? Three enrolled. So at any one time, lose three quarters or two thirds of the class could be present I. Don't think they're all going to choose to be present but but I think that many will have an in class experience summer are out of that, and that's that's their choice others. May you know go for mix but I think it's not gonNA is not going to be all online unless of course, things explode and there's a big outbreak and we exceed a solution or quarantine to David I think all the measures we have in place good enforcement in good sort of personal responsibility that this is unlikely to happen. So zero and Kathy on something Dr Hamer just said Wha- Dr Hamer, you said unless things explode and you get beyond capacity and that has been a question. What is the threshold for shutting it down? Is it a certain level of positivity and test rates? Is it overflow on isolation quarantine? What is that metric? I think are. Kathy I am so sorry, we have lost your sound quality. I heard you say I think there's no single metric, but we've lost your sound quality I. Apologize For that Dr Hamer I'm GonNa let you pick it up. We'll see if we can get cathy back. Okay. So we have developed some metrics uh minner as she working on even more complex metrics I think the real simple ones are going to be monitoring our use of isolation. Rooms in quarantine runs in if we're reaching a capacity for those, we will I'd save even if we reach like seventy five or six capacity that we're going to be concerned. And certainly, if we reach full capacity, we'd would have to change our strategies but I think we would want to do that earlier in order to try to avoid at happening where we've got a group of Really Smart Medical Dvr logistics and statisticians mathematicians that are helping to really twin analyze both local data from the state of Massachusetts in the surrounding counties but also on campus data to train determine the rate of transmission estimated rated transmission and how that's changing. If we see that it looks like it's increasing the now will be another measure that will cause us to change practice in potentially change the strategies. Okay and we do have Kathy spiegelman back now in a follow up question in our last minute Kathy. Are you confident that that set of forward-looking metrics is enough to keep an outbreak from happening or is it inevitable and this is get as much on campus time as you can before the inevitable happens. I don't know that I want to put myself in the position of having to predict everything that you just asked me to take a firm position on. I will tell you I will tell you though that we for the past six months as we have pivoted to all of the concerns that you've begun to raise that callers have raised about what it means to bring our students faculty and staff back to campus. We believe that the measure, all the ones that were described at the you all the ones that I've had a chance to describe to you. Today are measures that will counter the likelihood of an outbreak and that we will be watching it very closely because public health and safety is the number one priority for everything that we're doing and we believe that we can carry it out. So I hope that we maybe can have a conversation at the end of the semester and we can all say this all the things that we're doing. were. Successful. and. That's Kathy. SPIEGELMAN vice president and chief of Chief of campus planning and development northeastern. Thank you Kathy. Okay you're welcome. and Dr David Hammer professor of global health at Bu School of Public Health and School of Medicine and a member of the medical advisory group. Thank you so much for joining us again. My pusher.
How are you, Grandmama?
"Richard pod is sponsored by T. Rowe price. Are you looking to learn a thing or two about getting your finances in order saving and investing? Check out the confident wallet a personal finance podcast series by T. Rowe price and the Washington Post brain studio find it wherever you get your podcasts. Hey history lovers. I'm Mike Rosen walled with retro pod. A show about the past rediscovered everyone knows Alexander Graham, Bell invented the telephone. You know, who doesn't get a lot of credit his dog. And he should bells adorable. Terrier is part of the crazy story of how the telephone came to be today. I want to share the stories of two unlikely characters in the development of the telephone. The first is the dog go back to eighteen sixty three. Alexander Graham, Bell was twenty years old, his father and grandfather were prominent speech and language experts in England one day bells. Father encouraged him to make a machine that could mimic the sounds of speech bell solution. He turned to his dog bell. Brought out some treats as the terrier growled bell moved the dogs. John by doing that. He was able to make it sound like the dog was talking. He manipulated the growls into real sentences. How are you grandma was one of them? The incident. Cemented bells determination to follow in the footsteps of his father and grandfather bringing sound to life. It also awakened the crucial curiosity and creative instincts. He would need to bring the phone to fruition. The dog isn't the only unusual character in this story. Another is a cadaver while teaching at Boston University bell began working to improve device for the death device turned sound into wavy lines on paper, which the death cadet read bell wanted to approximate a human ear to test whether the sound waves could travel through the idea was to help the death. See the sound of words, he turned to an ear doctor friend for help who suggested that bell should just use a human ear for his experiment. One arrived in the mail a few days later bell set the Europe with the transcription contraption in began shouting into it it worked, but not well, not well enough to help the death in the way, he'd imagined. Then bell had another idea. Maybe the vibrations could travel along an electrical line like telegraph and be turned back into sound on the other end on March tenth eighteen seventy six in his Boston workshop bell setup receivers in separate rooms connected by a wire in powered by batteries, his assistant Thomas Watson helped it was late afternoon. They were both tired bell went to one room Watson to the other. And then it happened almost like magic bell spoke on his receiver Watson heard this Mr Watson come here. Bell was so excited. He spilled battery acid on himself that night he worked late with lots and taking turns talking seemingly through the air. They read books to each other Watson sang eventually bell signed off belting out God, save the Queen. The telephone was quickly transformed the world in so many ways bell seem to know it after that first phone call he sent a letter to his father. He wrote, quote, I have constructed a new apparatus operated by the human voice. And the day is coming when telegraph wires will be laid onto houses, just like water or gas and friends converse with each other without ever leaving home. I'm Mike Rosen will thanks for listening for more forgotten stories from history. Visit Washington Post dot com slash retro pod.
The CTE podcast
"The water on the huddle. I'll tell you when you get a water break well observer. Podcasts Ralph Phillips Today Is March Ninth Twenty Twenty one hundred eight days until buccaneers kickoff. Yeah it's better than it was yesterday. Eighty nine now. We always do the countdown to the kickoffs think last year we did the countdown to the NFL. Kickoff this year at the kickoff. Because it's only kickoff and care about the holy kickoff matters is the buccaneers podcast. It's been a while we've taken a little break but we are back on track this intense podcast they've got a little bit of Buccaneers News Warwick cover and some other stuff league-wide and then some other stuff that probably GonNa make some people upset first off when it gets into some follow ups in fact checks follow up who is the player representative for the new. Cba vote we asked and the answer is Allie. Pet CO alternative. Number one is Lavar. Hey David Cole. Alternative number two is Bo Allen and never went against any of those you know I knew it was Alamar pet but I didn't know I didn't know well enough to recall it Sherry remember hearing it likely story follow up. Monte Kiffin is currently player personnel analyst. At Ole Miss for his son Lane. Kiffin semi-retired probably. Yeah but he's not coaching at. He's a player personnel analysts. Whenever that means scout he analyzes player personnel. Got a little bit books news going on according to Greg off of the Athletic Dot Com. The bucks are not going to tender offensive line Michael Key. I didn't even know that he was maybe possibly going to be tendered. I forgot he was even on the team. If he's been there for quite a while played last year he got hurt. I know he played like Like six or seven games year before if I recall correctly which follow up if I'm having to recall things that's probably not. But yeah he's going to be an unrestricted free agent now so we need to get some more depth Our Line we'll probably end up signing later in the offseason interesting little tidbit at the combine. There is a women of the NFL combine event that happens every year. The buccaneers found out about it. It wasn't a part of their program or anything and the they quietly showed up and picked up the entire bar tab for all the women. They cited wanting to support women in American football at every level. Possible as the reason now. The buccaneers are very active with women in football causes. Thanks to Darcy Darcy. Who The glaser are. You might be people listening. Don't know who Dr Seuss is okay. Tampa was supposed to be both to hold the NFL consumer product. Some this week. It was supposed to happen for Monday to Wednesday in Tampa but then fell postponed Basically due to the corona virus interesting yeah so Tampa missed out on that. Don't know if it's GONNA be rescheduled or if they're just not going to do it this year. I am guessing that does not going to do it this year. But that's a big event for all the vendors and a lot of businesses in areas. Well some and hurts a quarterback's hurt and a lot of stuff. Which brings me to an interesting question if this continues on is the NFL. Going to be playing an empty stadiums because it's happening around the world where teams are playing an empty stadiums. Because no one wants to go out though. Because I won't let people come to the game out of quarantine all the cortines. Yeah so if this if this carries on into September October we might see televised games with no fans in the stadiums. How weird would that be? I remember when they did. They had no announcers. There was no color commentary. Anything they just had background noise and all that that was a real shock to the system. It was weird. Why didn't have any there? Were just testing it out to sea ACAS. A lot of people were complaining. Me being one of them about half in the list I turn the sound down off. You know because. I don't like listening to the announcers but this would really be a shower. Could you imagine that seem an NFL? Football team play in a totally empty stadium. Jacksonville Jaguars same thing shots. Florida team will enter for Molly. I didn't say the bucks so they probably say the same thing about us. I've got some news as far as the NFL Players Association. They are electing a new president tomorrow. Tuesday march tenth. The current president is Eric Winston of the Cincinnati Bangles now to be an NFL player association. President you have to be in the NFL. You have to be an active player. Well they've got four nominees that have been announced. Previously there was only one nominee that was announced that was Russell. Oh Kong now. We know of all four of them one is Michael Thomas. Not Michael Thomas New Orleans saints but the giants I think. He said he was the safety. Jc shredder Russell Kong. And our very own. Sam Acho linebacker for the Tampa Bay buccaneers. He might be the president for the NFL Players Association. How awesome would that be? That would be cool. I kind of thrilling lobbying for the new. Cba that's right. He's the only one of the four that come out in favor of the new. Cba DEAL Russillo Kong. Michael Thomas voted. No not sure what. Jaycee tried voted. Oh wait a minute. Yeah I did because I read his summary on twitter and you could tell by his summary that he is not a big fan of CBS. Which brings us to the GET SEGUE IF. You're not familiar. The collective bargaining agreement off of also known as the CBA is negotiated between NFL Players Association. And the owners of the NFL is to decide how to divvy up. Compensation how many games are going to be played basically all the rules it administration aspects of the NFL this year. There's a lot of big changes coming. One of them is. The owners are wanting seventeen games. Now there's been a lot of Mumbling amongst the players as to whether they want to do this or not. Some are in favor of some of them aren't in favor. The ones that aren't in favor I think are being a lot louder than the ones that are are in favor. But Bruce Areas brought up a good point in his press conference at Combine. He said he doesn't care. He said he'd look. He's he's labor. He just does what they tell him but his big question is who's going to get two extra home game which is a really good that I had seen brought up before I had not thought about that. And you know a seventeen games is an odd number. So somebody's going to get half. The team is going to plays half. The teams are going to get an extra home game. And how are they going to figure that out? Or are they gonNA play on neutral territory will go to a opposing field opposing teams field targets right now. Talking about maybe. Afc gets extra one one year and the next year tate on and even years. I'll tell you I think it's a seventeen games ain't gonNA work and that leads us into the next segue some. Nfl owners of hope that this CBA does not pass because they want eighteen games not seventeen games and that would solve the odd hung. Were solved them now. Only seventy five percent of the owners were needed to vote yes in order for the CBA to be approved before the vote is passed to the players. Like I said not. All owners voted yes and has reported that some of them did not vote. Yes because they want eighteen games now. The players have until Saturday that was extended. Today it was GONNA be Thursday but it's extended the Saturday march fourteenth. This is what the fourth extension they've done with this thing now and there's about nine thousand nine hundred members in the players union and they just need a simple majority so eight hundred one or not even math. That was bad math. Nine hundred fifty one here we go. I didn't even have to use a calculator so they just have to have a simple majority now. Some of the owners do not want this. Cba to be passed so that they can go back to the negotiating table and put eighteen games back on this list. At Seventeen Games is not going to do the trick. Why would I think I think at this point players whenever meltdown if you tried to give them eighteen games but in this new CBA? I thought that they were gonNA throw in an extra by week. But they didn't that's for the eighteen game measure so anyhow but we don't know anything until this gets approved and if it does get approved go back to the bargaining table and it's not going to be the same. Cba again coming out. One of the things they did do in this new. Cba They remove suspensions for testing positive for marijuana and instead replaced them with fines The first time you get busted popped marijuana. I think it's a half a game check. And then the second time you get popped. It's a full game check and then the third time to get popped. It's a two game checks. It's it's out there somewhere. So as Josh Gordon GonNa be reinstated. Josh Gordon's happy about this. But he ended up playing for free all year because he would he would every single game check because it keeps going up until I think it's around the seventh offense than they suspend you so you got up to seven point and he would have to forego long enough to get a paycheck so that he can buy more weed issue. Which I think almost everybody agrees with this. I even test for it seriously. Did it has for alcohol if you are in the Substance Abuse Program. Yes if you're in phase two then they test for alcohol but alcohol is stays in the system for twenty four hours waiting to see if you can positive for another or if you put yourself into the Substance Abuse Program. So why do they have? The marijuana is probably because some of the owners or somebody connected with the. Nfl makes a lot of money off of these tests. Because why even having why even have marijuana I think it's a relic of half time. I mean that's all I read in the last five years that marijuana has become kind of mainstream and attitudes about it and have changed true now back in my day we call it the wacky weed reefer madness and their parents know allowed propaganda movie. I showed reefer. Man This to my kid go okay and a lot of the players. They're asking the same question. Why is marijuana even being tested? So you know the kind of happy with the new thing that you're not going to be suspended for it but they're not happy with the seventeen games now that some of the players we don't know how many players here's an interesting thing. The media is twisting Opole by Seton University about the extension of NFL Games. What they did is Seton. University pulled a bunch of people and they found out that only thirty one percent of the people polled agreed with extending the season to seventeen games people. They just wanted to comment perception. How people found out about a seventeen game season. Not If read the media articles K Jesse Reid of sports not dot com wrote an article which has been syndicated across the country with the title the Title University poll shows only thirty one percent of NFL fans in favor of seventeen game season now. The data states Six hundred ninety three adults across the country were polled but it didn't state if they were. Nfl fans are not so me. Being the person I am and knowing from anecdotal evidence every single person. I know that watches. Nfl IS ECSTATIC About having another game. All I haven't met a single person. That's not even did that. Same Beverly Notable of course. So you know I'm like this can't be right. There's gotta be something wrong here so I emailed the university. I E mailed Marty Appel for clarification and I asked him. I said of all the people. Y'All polled did y'all specifically ask them if they were NFL fans or if they didn't have anything to do with sports and do you have any data on that. Well they were very kind and gracious and they sent me back a bunch of data and replied stating that fifty one percent of the respondents about three hundred forty. Six of the people polled said. They follow sports closely or very closely. No mention of the NFL or football specifically so that means forty nine percent of them didn't follow sports at all fifty one percent of them followed sports but not necessarily the NFL he has they had no data whatsoever on how many of these people polled are NFL fans but the title of the Article Is University poll shows only thirty one percent of NFL fans in favor of seventeen game season. I am shocked that the media would mislead housing like this. It is it is totally mind blowing. I don't know if this ever happened before. And that's been syndicated so most most people that have read this or listen to this podcast. It probably seen this article somewhere because it was syndicated nationwide. So why would the media do that? Profootballtalk they posted a twitter poll asking about the seventeen game season and it generated more than fifty six thousand votes actually fifty six thousand three hundred sixteen if they said with more than sixty two percent of those who responded saying they don't want a seventeen game season. I found it funny. They said sixty two percent because the actual figure is sixty two point one percent but they said more than sixty two percent technically true. That's then just take them out of there and that's a ridiculous to say more than sixty two percent yes it was sixty two point one percent and then they go on to say that left fewer than thirty eight percent which it was actually thirty seven point nine percent. That's just that's just tricky stuff. That's playing with numbers. I hate that crap. They said that left fewer than thirty eight percent in favor of the expansion of the season from sixteen games to seventeen now one. This is a twitter poll. There is absolutely no way to stop anybody from voting multiple times to. We have no idea that these people are NFL fans three. I read the comments on this poll when they put it up and almost everybody comments was like Why are we even asking? This is a stupid question. Of course we want more football. You know people were like I'd have football every week. I'd have to get into your for good very few comments. And who said that? They didn't agree with having more sixteen games when they did. It was because of injuries. You know they were like. I'm worried about injuries to the players so I'd rather just keep it at sixteen. They said thanks such as if it's not broke. Don't fix it but the vast majority of people that commented were like this is a silly poll. Everybody wants seventeen games. They want more football. So this has been touted throughout the media's well matter of fact. Here's here's a quote from an article it's actually from the NBC sports article IT'S A. It's a somewhat surprising outcome especially given the gradual sense of inevitability that has emerged in recent months regarding the move to seventeen. But here's what also shouldn't be surprising the NFL won't care about this or any other poll. The League has decided to find another place in the pizza to cram cheese the league will be putting it on the menu and we will be eating it eventually. Seventeen will become eighteen again. It feels inevitable and ongoing expansion of legalized gambling. Makes it even more likely? Now here's the part that I found very telling he says there's too much money to be made by having another two weekends of games on which to wager regardless of concerns about player safety or in opposition or anything else other than the basic exercise of capitalism in quip folks. The media is being manipulative with this crap. We're going to get into some serious issues here in a second about the media but with this issue in particular there skewing stuff. They're wanting people to think that player that fans don't want seventeen games which is malarkey every fan. I know once more football the media loves doing this. They love doing this. They loved playing. The David Goliath the speaking truth to power the oppressor oppress thing. They feel like the NFL's trying to cram down everybody's throat this is how they're portraying it. They're trying to cram it down. Everybody's throats greed greed capital gambling and Thir- giving a platform to the players who are against the CBA. They're not giving a platform to the players. Who are for the C B. Like say Acho you don't see him on. Nfl Network talking about how great the does new CBA is going to be. But you'll hear everybody that Scott an opinion against the CB is going to get a platform. Don't let them for you lose. People that watch football. The vast majority are fine with more football. It's like the Thomas Question it's like. Do you like chocolate like chocolate off the chocolate chocolate three times a week if you can eat chocolate five times a week without Dana White would you? Yeah that's why don't you eat more chocolate? Well because it makes me gain weight you know. Why don't you watch more football well because there isn't any more football? Would you like to have more football? Yeah it's ridiculous is media doing this. What's going on what is going on well before we get into that. Let's pay some bills real quick. Hey you know we just switched podcast hosts and I wish I would have done this from the very gig. I wish I would've started with this company anchored at FM. If you don't know anything about podcast in this is a good place to start if you want to get your own podcast out there. Great Place for one it so easy. I could probably do it myself without row system molly. So that's how easy in another big things it's free they do all the hosting for you. They got creation tools and allied record editor. Podcast right from your phone. Were from your computer. Wherever you are really great place. Distribute all your podcast for you. This is one of the issues we have a we first started doing. Our podcast was getting it on all the platforms. There are so many platform that they're just a real quick list. You've got a Amazon Echo audio burs blueberry cashbox. These are I heart. I tunes Google. Play Pod News Pod Bean pod chaser pug and most of these lot of them. You have to submit your stuff your podcast yourself. But anchor goes ahead and does all that for you. I wish I want to start off with them. Because we're all relisted everywhere but there's still a good service especially if you're just starting out another thing is you can make money off your podcast. There's no minimum listenership sell whether you have five downloads. An episode or a thousand downloads episode. It's not an issue and they've got everything you need to make a podcast all in one place so download the free anchor APP or you can go to anchor dot. Fm to get started. If you're looking to make a podcast or if you've already got a podcast out there go check them out. Good service already. Now we're going to touch on some stuff little bit concerning the media but we want to talk about. Ct THE NEW CBA is coming out there. Wanting seventeen games a lot of people are saying. They don't want more football because they don't want players to get injured. Injury has been a huge issue over the past decade C. T. has been at the forefront of everybody's thoughts on this aspect. Well one start this off by saying that me and my we're not experts. Neither one of us are medical doctors. Neurosurgeon Path ALLERGIST FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST FORENSIC. There are none of that stuff. Were just regular people but we have been following this very closely since the inception. And we've got a lot to say. This is going to be quite a hefty podcast and we hope everyone will learn something today. Yeah if nothing else to lot whether you agree with us you know you're GonNa learn something from this. We were talking about the media and we're going to cover the media to a great extent here with the C. Two East but we there's a phrase that sticks with me is stuck with me and I kind of apply to most everything that I see pop up on the world stage. The original quote is by Eric. Hoffer book the temper of our time. He says every great 'cause begins as a movement becomes business and eventually degenerates into a rack. It the way it is causing become movements movements become industries industries becomes scams. That's how I say I look at things and I've always felt with. Ct that there was. It moved to fast for one The HOOPLA behind it and then also when I saw how he the media reacted to it. I knew there was something. Little little fishy there. So first let's break down. What exactly is c? T. E. A. Cat is chronic traumatic encephalopathy. It is a it's diagnosed as a disease but that's the bet. It was well but it can only be diagnosed after death as a stands right now. The only way a person can be diagnosed with having. Cte is through an autopsy autopsy performed on the brain and of course that can own have after death now. The Way C. T. is diagnosed when there's a protein called Tau which forms clumps in the folds of the brain. Now this is a very very very microscopic thing very small you could only see it with scope and its little clusters of proteins called Tau now. Cte became the football catchphrase. Went in two thousand and five Bennett. Oh Malu first reported. Finding a new tau protein in Pittsburgh steeler Mike Webster's autopsy after he'd had a heart attack at age fifty. Now Mike Webster had had Problems for a long time with this mental health. His physical health again all kinds of issues so when he died of a heart attack at fifty as family wanted Dr Bennett. Amal to look at it now takes credit for finding in naming the disease but it was originally named and studied in boxers in the nineteen twenties. It was called. Dementia Pugilist Ika. And the seminal work on the disease came from the British neurologist MacDonald critchley is a British name. I ever heard one he and I nine hundred forty nine wrote a paper entitled Punch Drunk Syndrome the chronic traumatic encephalopathy of boxers. Now if you want to read up on some serious drama and some I don't WanNa say scammy stuff. Let's say a sketch personalities read up on Dr Malu. The Guy who claims that he visited her that he found it he definitely is the one who gets credit for bringing it to the forefront of the NFL's issue we're dealing with nowadays. He's he's the first one to find it in an NFL player was put that away. He's also the one that will Smith played in the movie. Concussion which we'll talk about a little bit at Boston. University has a concussion. Research Center that deals with C. T. E. almost exclusively. Actually now. They've developed what they call his four stages of Cte this is something of their own making. It's not established to go out the medical community at all. I'm going to go into more depth on this in a minute. Yes. We're GONNA talk about Boston. University quite bit The four stages of Cte the first stage is if you even have one of these tau proteins in your brain. As a matter of fact they don't even have a floor for stage one huge problem. It's a huge problem Basically all have how proteins in our brain we all have these little clusters at least a few of them. I mean if you take our brains apart and you go through them with the microscope. You're gonNA find some of these dow clusters in there so when you hear statements such as player's brain showed signs A. T. Cte. That's basically what they're saying is that they found some of these tau clusters or not. You know they're not saying they're advanced that it was with all of their brain or did they had any issues whatsoever. They're just basically saying that they found some of these dow closes. Would you could find in almost every healthy brain when you hear say. They've showed signs of it or they had stage one. Ct which is what what they mean when they say showed signs of it if they if they have three or cd all they say that but they say they showed signs of it or they say they found signs of Ct. Dinette generally means it's stage one or stage two which is the same as healthy brain. But we'll get into that layer. So that's what is now. How did this become an issue? How did CTE become an issue with the NFL? Now we talked about Dr Malibu who found the first evidence of Cte in an NFL player with that was in two thousand and five basically. This all started because of a lawsuit by a bunch of lawyers in a class action suit against the NFL. Now there are many firms involved in this class action lawsuit but Seger wise law for has been designated as the Class Council which means they are the big daddy though. The one is giving all the money they've received one hundred ten million dollars from the settlement already In the original class action suit there were forty five hundred players or their estates involved now. This was a typical class action lawsuit. I don't know if you've ever gotten it in the mail where out of nowhere you'll get a letter saying. Hey look. We're a were doing class action lawsuits against Ibuprofen if you take an IB proof in the past twenty years. Signed this thing and you'll be part of the class action lawsuit and you'll receive part of the settlement has exactly what this was. They had forty five hundred players. Originally they ended up with twenty thousand five hundred fifty three basically every single player that played in the NFL since the inception of the NFL. Now if you want some drama go follow the case. It's really really fascinating The seger Wieslaw for a bridge just recently been appointed. I think within the past couple of years as the case council removing all the lawyers from the case and The main lawyer. I can't remember his name wise. I think it might be seger cigarettes. He blew through ninety percent of his fees in two years. He blew through over a hundred million dollars in two years. Now this was this was supposed to be a sixty five year settlement. His fee is supposed to handle the players for sixty five years. He's blown through ninety percent of it already extravagantly He's being charged right now for steering multiple ex players receiving settlement proceeds to a bank for interest charging advances on their settlement proceeds. Who He didn't tell them he just happened to be on the board of. There's all kinds of stuff that goes on with us. I mean it is crazy crazy crazy when you look into but the interesting thing of this says they put in a brief. They put it in this class. Action suit now when lawyers put in suits and briefs and all this good stuff it doesn't have to be truthful. Trials exactly the brief to the core. And you say this. These are arguments and then once it makes it to trial. That's where the judge or the jury can decide on the merits of the case. Right and it's up to the opposing side to dispute the facts in the the argument. Well the lawyers for the plaintiffs the the class action lawyers. They put forth this brief. And that's where all the media got. All their information from to start with this case never went to court. It was settled out of court after a number of years So the media is only had the players lawyers briefs in evidence which was never disputed in court and they've been using that as statement of fact they did from day one and up to now. They're still using that. The lawyers evidence as statement of fact when it has never gone to trial and almost all of it was bunk. Well I think a lot of people assume that when a party elects to settle a case that means that the case against them as true you would think but that's not true matter of fact it's not true in the vast majority of settlements especially insurance claims and stuff like that. It's just it's just not worth the trouble right. It's GONNA cost more to fight it than it would to just pay us not domenico bright in the NFL settled for seven hundred and fifty six million dollars and this is supposed to be sixty five years settlements of The the NFL. We don't know the reasons behind it. Are you know. I'm not trying to visit their intentions or anything but it was a lot of media pressure on them know against the NFL for this stuff and it mathematically make sense you know that seven hundred fifty six million dollars over sixty five years. That's a good deal for them. So that's brave. Putt for these arguments and the public and the media. They've been reporting on it originally now. Originally there wasn't a whole industry behind the CD. A totally new thing. It was only basically brought up in two thousand and five in the settlement happen. I mean the the suit happened. I think I'm not real sure. I should look this up but I wanNA say two thousand nine two thousand ten and that's win. This whole industry popped up. There was not a whole lot of information. Ct before then. I mean there have been studies on boxers and things of that nature but this was a whole totally new area but it became the new buzzword. Yes and you think of the think of are all these neurodegenerative diseases and basically men become vegetables because they've had too many hits to the heads. Alzheimer's Partisans Age mental illness depression suicidal thoughts. Here's what we know about C T E it's the accumulation of talent the brain that is that's what's been established by science right. That's that's not say anything else. Such as saying we that we can identify. Cte Is the accumulation of Tau in the brain boom. That's it that's it. We don't know what other factors have an impact on town. The brain leg drug use smoking. Obesity chronic inflammation. We don't know why. It accumulates on the brain. We do know that those things 'cause tell buildups in the brain. Obesity drug use which includes steroids opioids are very big and causing ct or this towel buildup in the brain. Obesity is a big one too. We don't know why. It accumulates on the brain some people are susceptible to at some people aren't so some people can get in the head one hundred times and not have any and some people can never sustain ahead to the head and they have it on the brain. That's right there's people with known severe and repeated head trauma that have absolutely no towel or C. T. and there's people with known head known head trauma ever that have been found to have Tau Anti AG- nosed. Cte Due to any of these number factors opioid abuse being one of the big ones and obesity. But inflammation on the brain. Which I'm GonNa talk about the inflammation theory in just a second. Ralph mentioned the staging issue so Boston University. Which will get into in a minute is the big C? T. E. Program. That has really been at the forefront of this cause and in two thousand fifteen a panel of experts met to come up with diagnostic criteria for C. T. e. It was supposed to be preliminary and they looked at ten handpicked brains that they agreed where stage three and stage four. Ct again there was no stage. One or stage two brains. It was just these ten stage three or four so they develop a criteria based on these brains and that was it. That's all the top end. I've actually emailed Peter. Cummings who was the CO author of brainwashed with Merril Hodge? Yes if you want to read some good information on CD and the current concussion crisis going on in the NFL across the country not just with NFL. Boyd Youth football and all that good stuff read brainwashed by a Merril Hodge. If you don't know who Merril Hodge. Was it used to be running back for the Pittsburgh steelers? He had to leave football because of a concussion. Multiple cut cushions. He received a tells a great story. He's been through it. He's been there. He's done that and he's actually girl in the League now trying to deal with concussion protocol how they handle concussions within the League yes yes which. We'll get to that in a moment because I found that stuff fascinating. But it's a fantastic book it's brainwashed by Merrill hoj Hodge. I used to watch Merril Hodge. Roger Ski they were my favorite to watch on WANNA say? Espn is back way before the NFL network they used to do. They are the ones that actually got me into looking at game film. The only ones that let the game film they would demurrage always so serious but he had. He was so good at explaining things on screen with all twenty two which is fascinating. But he's he's the one that got me into that cash. How is the world did I become a buccaneers family? Merril Hodge Hardy Nickerson. Leo's Big Lynn. Swann fan growing up. I should have been Pittsburgh steelers. Ask to stay so they meet a these. Bu People meet they study brains from be used files they cherry. Pick THE BRAINS. And that's what they've used for this diagnostic criteria. They should have met. They were supposed to me again. This was a preliminary meeting and as I was saying before Ralph Free Leaner up to me with his tangent. I emailed the CO author. Peter Cummings who was also a neuropathologist at B. U. But he's not in the that program to see if they had met since the publishing of the book. Now I haven't heard back from him. I will let you know but from my search. I don't think that they have the ham and typically in this diagnostic criteria staging. They do it for a lot of different diseases. So what do you get the whole community to stab wish? What's going to be the diagnostic criteria? They have not done that with C. Ever ever so for comparison. They recently did this for Alzheimer's and they had multiple panels. They posted the results. Online of these panels is consensus was open transparent worldwide. I mean this was open to everybody across the world who had input on and they took feedback based on what people read online. They revised their criteria. And that's how they established the diagnostic criteria. That's never happened for C. Read Boston University has basically been control of the narrative. From the get-go. It's a problem because a lot of these symptoms with a cat overlap with other neurodegenerative diseases so there's no unique features separating. Cte from any other disorder. Another problem with the science is that the way that CT cases are reported. It makes it seem like when there are other neurodegenerative disease is present in a brain that show signs of Cte. The language in the report makes it sound as though the is causing other diseases says where this initial meeting and from Bu had said when other neuro degenerative diseases that are present. You're supposed to exclude Cte. But that's not actually what happens in these reports now. Everyone's heard the study one hundred and ten brains of a one hundred eleven that they studied found signs of Cte NFL players NFL players. Yeah this is the one that the media loves. They love this one ninety nine percent of brains everywhere. Did you know that they only studied the brains that were donated by family members? Where the deceased had move behavior or cognitive problems. There was no control group whatsoever sell. They didn't have a group of normal brains where there weren't any of these problems to see how they compared the authors of the study actually said in the paper that it was a bias study. They admitted it themselves is right there in Amtrak. It's like you walk into an Alzheimer's Brain Bank. Study those brains in say. One hundred percent of people have Alzheimer's ages doesn't make any sense without the control group to compare it to your results are really meaningless. In plus they use the low threshold of the stage one that they establish themselves which basically all you probably have listened to the podcast. You probably would be diagnosed with. Cte Stage one by Boston University right now because they would look in your head and find some of these proteins which everybody has almost everybody. In these hundred and ten brands fifteen had stage one or two and their average age at death was forty four. The other ninety five that showed signs of C. T. Were staged three or four. And their average age at death was seventy one now. It might be normal as we age towel proteins to develop so the fact that the average age of these older brains showed that backwards. The old arrange showed more severe. Ct It makes sense because as you age you may developed helper teens. Another glaring issue with the science is that they don't study women's brains which was discovered with pharmaceuticals that it's a problem. When pharmaceutical companies don't test on women as well as men because our physiology is different and pharmaceuticals can impact you differently. Yes they found that women recover from concussions differently than men. Do you just like children recover from concussions differently than adults? Do a two thousand seventeen study found that women soccer actually has the highest rate of concussion and traumatic brain in brain injury of any sport. But you don't hear that the news. It's all football. I don't hear anybody calling for women's soccer to be banned. Many of the study is rely on self reports or the reports of loved ones as to a patient's mood or conman of decline and a lot. These studies do show an increased risk of cognitive disorders as adults if the children start for ball earlier. That's the one where the earlier you start. Football the more likely. You are and have cognitive decline later. But when studies actually used a accepted test of your neurological function and they get a baseline of these kids and then they test them later to see how their baseline is impacted. There's no decline so when the relatives are reporting or they're reporting mood issues cognitive problems than they're saying. Oh that correlated to your participation in this contact sport but the actual scientific test don't show this other studies don't control for other factors that can cause conditions associated with C. T. like childhood stressors predisposition to conditions like depression and drug use family histories. So that's a big problem. The Brain Bank at Boston University takes in a lot of a lot of people donate their family members brains to Boston University to be studying and a vast majority of those are collected from either college or professional players but that's not representative of the majority of football players. Most people play football in use or high school. And that's when they stop but the brains being studied are just college in football so they've gone that much further. There's no telling the differences in those brains but that's not being studying now be you. Has This brain bank and they are very possessive of their samples. I'll talk about that in a minute. How much they fight you. But when so there's no replication of their research. They're not sending out their samples to be tested by other labs to determine whether what they found is reliable when independent researchers have done work similar to Boston. University's find very different results. Actually none of the research published by Dr Mckee from the Concussion Legacy Foundation or the Boston. University sees has been replicated by any other researcher and all meaning that using the same samples controls and methods know independent. Researchers have been able to kate their results. That's damning and this. Is Boston University? If you read any article in the media I guarantee you just randomly go to type and see into your favorite search engine. Read the first article I guarantee you. They're gonNA have clothes and data from Boston. University at where the media goes to get their stuff. Unfortunately none of Boston University stuff is would you say transparent and all they don't share their data they're not transparent law in nobody can replicate their findings. But it's his damning. There is a study in twenty-six team by Canadian neuro pathology and they studied one hundred and eleven brains people ages six eighteen to six steve according to the B. U. Staging System Day found C. T. E. in only four and a half percent of the brains but when they expanded their criteria to include any signs of Towel. Because again there's no stage one. There's no floor. The number of ballooned to thirty five point. One percent of the brain's now in that study a major predictor of C. T. E. was head trauma and Substance Abuse Substance Abuse again. Only two of the brains that they found the C. T. E. N. Were in contact sport and one of the brands who the person played football in high school had no C team. Yes almost all research analysis done outside of Boston. University COMES TO THE CONCLUSION. That really is not that big thing or if it is it's not necessarily caused by hits to the head or you know it's not been established how you get C. T. now there was that big study you know. The sub concussive in packs remember okay. That's the one that started making. Everybody think offensive lineman and defensive Lineman were probably the worst with. Tt's right and then they said soccer players probably have C. t. e. because they had the ball. Yeah which I think is. Britain has totally banned youth. Soccer from doing headers now really reduce well when they came out without study again. There's no floor. We don't know how much force it takes. Two 'cause this sub concussive hits so Merle Hodge actually says in the book you can have a vigorous pillow fight and have some impact right now. White matter changes in these brains that supposedly had the sub concussive impacts were also found in people with learning disabilities who were obese. Who had diabetes had a low socioeconomic status adhd and also endurance athletes. There have been studies on this Upton cuss impacts and one study which looked at the other study of studies. You know how like the revenge found that studies on these up can custom impacts where Phyllis sources of biased including improper control of errors in inappropriate controls. And another two thousand. Eighteen paper found that the evidence was weak and there again as we mentioned was no way to determine the minimum threshold for what produces a sub king of impact a 2016 study from the UK studied thirty two young soccer professional soccer players but found no significant quote no significant neurological structural brain imaging or Nora's psychological change from heading the ball so despite that the UK has been heading so there are theories as to what could cause these town deposits on the brain and as Ralph has mentioned. There's a lot of other variables that can impact it. I love the inflammation theory is what makes so much sense us. Well back my science exactly so when you get a hit to the head you have an inflammatory response just like you would any other time. You know if you cut your finger or you get a bruise. Your Body Reacts Your Immune System to try to heal this injury so what happens to the brain. Is that your nerve cells release neurotransmitters and potassium and the take in calcium ions and they've reduced energy production. Which is which is interesting. Because there is a calcium theory for Alzheimer's now you are basically neurons. Are Council fine so that Kinda stuck out to me with that but your cells they start breaking down glucose to try to provide energy to the cell so it can start repairing itself if you get hit again in the head. Before you've had a chance to recover you can enter into chronic inflammation and that's where the problem is. Our diets can actually make us be in a constant state of inflammation so with a lot of sugar high processed foods. And there's even research that shows that an inflammatory immune response called. Immuno exit Ta City. I know I don't think I Senate race that might be the cause of degenerative neurological problems. So basically what happens is that you've got these toxins in your brain and they're emitted during this inflammation response and you need blood flow to your brain to one provide oxygen to your brain but also to carry those toxins out and if that's not happening then they're stuck in your brain in 'cause all these degenerative issues down. Deposits unchecked buildup in the brain can cause neurological malfunctions in town. Cumulation is part of what causes diseases like Alzheimer's with drug use anabolic steroid use obesity. Chronic inflammation chronic stress. They all build up talent. Deposits in the brain head traumas. Not The single factor. Stress was really an interesting one to me. Yes yes stress is very very bad for the body you want to read up some scary stuff news at look up. Uh Stress Research. Look Kill. You couldn't either. Yeah keeping your body because your body your whole body becomes inflamed basically now obesity is a big problem and chronic inflammation and UCLA. Some research they actually took 'em is of players that were experiencing mood and cognitive problems. Those with the most problems also had impaired blood flow to the brain they. Here's the control. The age and gender matched the players with healthy ones in the same age range. Gender said they had a comparison between the two so basically the whole group of these players had this impaired blood flow with the exception of a backup quarterback Ron Griffin Fan. Right eight eighteen out of one hundred had dementia in the age range of twenty five to eighty two. My guess would be. They were probably on the out of range of that. Yeah higher than the national average twenty eight per cent had clinical depression which is three times. The national average eighty one percent scored abnormally on a focus and attention tests and forty eight percent were obese which increases the risk of neurodegenerative diseases thirty percent of had sleep apnea which that can dove Asher in with obesity a lot of obese people have sleep apnea after an doubles your risk for Alzheimer's. I mean it makes sense. You're sleeping you don't get any oxygen to the rained. Need oxygen and blood flow to the brain to carry out this inflammation correct the same region researchers they compared that if players who were overweight or obese to those with the normal weight and compared their brain function again matching them by position in age and those that were overweight or obese based on their weight to height ratio apparently a better way to measure than BMI for guys outside had poor cerebral blood flow to the front and temporal lobes now these are areas where C. T. E. is commonly found in that funny swing that same. Ucla team in two thousand eleven study found a connection between BMI reduced blood flow to the brain and negative impact on behavior. Another study that they did. They've done some great studies here. Yeah found that players with the body. Mass in overweight category also had impaired blood flow to areas of the brain controlling attention reasoning and executive function and severe cognitive impairment. A two thousand sixteen study. I don't think from the same group but I could be wrong. Compared a group of overweight players to normal weight players and they found that the overweight players had reduced blood flow to thirty six regions of their brains. Thirty six regions. That's just crazy okay. So basically what we know is that is diagnosed after death by Tau Proteins in the brain clusters of these proteins brain as basically all we. Now that's basically all we know but if you want to read articles or listening to the media you would think they pretty much have this stuff nailed down I. I'm not sure if you've heard of the I think the county jail man in Asia fact that it goes something like this. This is Michael. Crichton came up with it. He said you open the newspaper to an article on some subject. You know well you read the article and you see. The journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. This happens to me all the time. You know being a computer programmer. I don't think I've ever read an article or a movie. That portrays a computer programmer. In any way shape or form has computer programs are made. It's why you can't just hack into a streetlight. No well I can't but I'm not GonNa say that out loud because I probably get no. I can't do that. Nobody can do that. Stupid on. Camera and seven eleven. Kamer anywhere. I Hank you you know you read the article and see. The journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues often articles so wrong in actually presents the story backward reversing causing effect in any case you read with exasperation or amusement multiple errors in a story that you're familiar with the subject matter and then you turn the page and read is is the rest of the newspaper somehow more accurate than the. Baloney you just read. Basically you turn the page and you forget what you know. That's the Dow Man Amnesia effect with a articles. Well I read about the CTO stuff all the time in the papers and it really really bothers me because they get it so wrong now there are only about three hundred documented cases of CTO in the entire world. That was at the time of publishing of brainwashed. I think in two thousand sixteen yes sixteen eighteen. I'm sure there's more now but there can't be that the point still the same. There is three hundred documented cases of Cte entire world. There are more New York Times story about. Cte than there are documented cases of CDs. And just in New York. Let's just the New York Times that just blows my mind right now. We know that there is zero evidence whatsoever. Nuns it not of the concussions. 'cause CTE no evidence none. There is no scientific evidence. No peer reviewed papers nothing. Nothing but it doesn't stop the media. It doesn't stop these people from constantly pounding away and our beloved sport and it seemed like all the media's against the NFL sports writers. I mean. Sports writers sit around. They lament the poor players. Being used. By the rich owners you know media loves to portray the David Against Goliath. You know you've got movies like we mentioned before the Cut Concussion by starring Will Smith. That's about the doctor. Marlowe who first came up connected. Cte With football players. That was a movie that made him seem like an angel and the NFL was the big bad people trying to suppress his findings. That's not the case. It wasn't the case. Read up on him read up on him. It's fascinating I mean. The Guy has basically. He's out of the medical field completely. Now he's basically gone on this evangelical tour. You know. He's not practicing at all and he's been hammered by the medical community over his findings. They said the wrong he no. He's basically took advantage of stuff. No read up on. It's fascinating PBS. Frontline did a documentary called League of denial the NFL's concussion crisis which is was big news. Remember when it came out it was all over the place? You could go anywhere without hearing about how horrible the NFL was treating players There's Aaron Hernandez documentary just recently. Put out where they said that Aaron Hernandez had the worst case of ever basically try to say that he did all his he did his murders. Because of you because he played football is GonNa make you a murder. There's even speculation out now that OJ Simpson has cte. Oh for God says I know. But where's the counterargument? I mean this is all stuff presented by the media right. You got the Aaron Hernandez Documentary League. Denial documentary you got concussion the movie. Where's love aside? Okay if you are a shitty person and you want an excuse to do pants. Doing the shitty things that you do would be perfect. Yeah right exactly. We'll get to that in just a second when you're only one side of the story what you're hearing is a lie because it's always three sides to the story for dental her side and the truth exactly in but we're not getting that from the media. The president a select group of experts who benefit from their stores turned concern over into a booming industry which we talked about the beginning of this all causes become movements I'll movements become industries. Industries becomes scams. Look at remember. We had the Komen Breast Cancer Sees Susan G Komen. Breast cancer stopped for what almost thirty years in the NFL DOVEY? Twenty any army where it was like every year for a month. It was this stuff which is hammered in our face. What happens where to go. They sell breast cancer. Well besides besides the fact that we have breast cancer we found out that foundation was not on the up and up. They're spending all their money. They were spending hardly any of it on research. They were all into awareness. They were basically a marketing company. And the where there were basically a scheme so if you look at all the information skeptically as few journalists do the real equation becomes more like this head. Impact hit head impacts plus a lot of other variables plus time equals possible changes to the brain that might not ever affect a person's quality of life. I mean that's what it all boils down to because like you were saying oh beasley causes CD and look at things. Yeah and look at players. When they retire it happens all the time. They used to eating ten thousand calories a day because they are working out. They have a very vigorous. You know football playing football is hard on your body in that respect like you gotta do a lot to keep it up and then when a lot of guys retire. They still eat the same way but they're not working out the same way so wait can kind of explode. Yes and a lot of these guys. Even while they're playing or considered obese right looking at the Linemen. Yes lineman just the line and obesity contributes to Tau Proteins in the brain. Boom you know drug abuse drug use. Not even abused drug use Causes Tau Proteins. And we know opioids are prescribed very heavily. Yes I'M GONNA touch on that a little bit here in a moment so there's a lot of other variables besides head impacts that build up our proteins in the brain. We have absolutely no evidence at all that head impacts calls Dow proteins and brain none whatsoever. We have plenty of people who had thousands of hits to the head multiple cautions that have had no evidence of CT in their brain. And the we've had people that have never had any documented case of head injury then have been diagnosed with C. T. Of course this is all after death. It's only way you can diagnose. But even we compete estates on their very first line that chronic traumatic and settle supple happily. I knew I was GONNA get that wrong. Originally that C. T. is a neuro degenerative disease caused by repeated head injuries. That's the very first line. And that's the definition of C. T. e. At wikipedia. And that's not true. It's neither a nerd degenerative disease nor is it caused by repeated had injuries. There's no evidence for that at all. Now you know we like to bash media here on this podcast. We didn't. We got away from it during the season. But I think we're GONNA come strong this year for starting off good now but not all. Biya's bad Eric Attleson from Yahoo Daniel and birth slate Jeff. We'll ride at discover. Aj Russo. The Baltimore Sun. Lindsey Barton Strauss off of MOM's team dot com. They all have written really good investigative reporting on the issue. You ever get a chance. Check out some of those really good stuff. We should mention Peter. Cummings two he wrote a very high profile article on Yahoo. I forget what his title something like. I'm a green surging neurologist brain scientists and not letting my kid playful. Yeah so that's kind of what? Got Him and Merle Hodge hooked up and let's put Mahajan there too so there are good investigative journalists but they're very very very very small minority and they hardly ever get the platforms of all these sensationalist dern was give. I'd like to talk about two pretty high profile. Cte cases that were in the news that you touched on the first big one I can remember was junior sale Committed Suicide Kinda came out of nowhere. He was younger as a very sad case very popular. Nfl player to loved you. You're saying he was before my time but he seemed like a nice guy so he committed suicide they say was C. T. E. Of course what they don't say is that he was a heavy drinker. He had a gambling problem which causes stress which rain. Especially if you're losing money which are GONNA lose money if you can't. He took a lot of prescription drugs and he has some serious financial problems including that his restaurants closed two weeks before he killed himself. And that's that's absurd stress. Yeah that's a huge stretch sir. Yes so so he had you know he he. He drank which has been shown so has been shown to increase deposits in the brainiacs dress which has been shown to increase townhouses in the brains. He took a lot of prescription. Drugs was a definite shouted. Ain't I feel so yeah. There was a lot of other issues that could have possibly led to him having Tau deposits in his brains not playing football and that also have contributed to his suicide. Yes yeah let me drink. It heavily contributed Downer using your restaurant. Businesses having financial troubles is like one of the leading causes suicide. Absolutely but see. That's that's all that anyone ever talks about and then Aaron Hernandez which this one. I watch from the beginning. I remember when it happened. It was a crazy story now. I haven't watched the documentary watched too. I don't really want to give it the time of day because I think it's bullshit we we've already made a silvery judgment on it. We've never well from what I've heard from people who watched it and they've said Oh yeah he definitely had C. T. Let's talk about that for a minute. So the autopsy reports after he hanged himself in his jail cell said he had stage three and it was the most severe. Cte ever found in a person of his age and that was staged three Ct. Yes so nobody's ever had stage four now at age. Twenty seven or somebody. Who's young so if you grant that he had some severe neuro degenerative disease already if you grant them that was there any whether he was predisposed that genetically family history we don't know they just jumped to. C. T. Eve. We know that he was a heavy drug user. We know that he was young and young. People suicide is the second leading cause of death he had just had a baby and then loss of forty million dollar contract because he murdered somebody and was getting ready to spend the rest of his life in prison probably so his suicide. I think was. I won't say that C. T. E. was probably not the cause of his suicide. Okay if you fall that far. That's reason enough and that one study showed that a quarter of prisoners had had suicidal thoughts in the past year past year. Twenty five percent rank prisoners. Kill themselves right this year which I understand that I mean didn't lose a forty million dollar. Nfl contract and you know we're getting ready to miss out on their baby's life and you know so to say everything. Aaron Hernandez's dead was excusable are caused by C. T. I think is just irresponsible. There's absolutely zero evidence non Nada Zip vet. Cte Causes Depression. This is another one of those narratives that's created by the media that's not supported at all anyway by science it's not just a fabrication. It's dangerous to think that away because if someone had does have depression and they blame it on. Cte or they can blame it on C. than third removing their ability to correct it. You know and that's a problem. I think that we have a lot in. America may be worldwide as we are giving people external reasons for their their problems. Prov what we're making it so people are having all these issues and especially mental health. Now there's and we're we're not we're not giving them the ability and the power to correct it and once you take away hope and self control from people they die and this those studies are fascinating to you. WanNA RAISE FASCINATING. Studies read studies on. Ap Take Away. People's ability to have self could What's the word control? Say Self Agency. Yeah to be able to do things for themselves. They will die. They would just die. They've done with rats. You take rats the ability for them to control their environment in their movement and stuff that they will literally just die. Humans need to feel empowered nineties. Our they feel they have to feel like there's hope and you put cte in somebody's head either literally or figuratively. You take away. That hope changes are they're going to kill themselves Thirty point six percent of men will report an episode of depression their lifetimes hadman eighty five and older have the highest rate of suicide among all men. I had no idea. Yeah well you know when you're when you remain and you get and you can't do the stuff he used to be able to do. It's like a tiny get outta here And plus all your friends had done them a depressive disorders of the second leading cause of living with disability in the United States and Canada and this crazy disability depressive disorders is the second leading cause of living with disability in the United States and Canada from nineteen ninety nine to two thousand and sixteen suicides in the United States increased by nearly thirty percent. A large portion of those suicide was not due to mental illness. But because of abuse of drugs like opioids and it was mainly among the male population in two thousand sixteen. Nearly as many people died from opioid overdoses as from suicide. So there's a lot of opioids going on out there. Well in a lot of that could be felt medication. You might theory retired. Nfl players both retired. And active. Actually use prescription opioids for pain at three times the rate of the general population. They you know these guys down these things the crazy. Yeah imagine what kind of tolerance you build up when you take it during the season right and hope we would use his known to cause deposits Tau in the brain so There's a link there now. Do you think it's possible that some of the players have killed themselves over the years did so because of opioid abuse Nazi theme or that. Some of the guys found a half. Cte might have had town brain's not because of hits to the head but because they took to excessive quantities of oxycodone. I mean blamed football. Ct for impulsive violent or suicidal acts while tipping. It's not scientific at all. There's no link no link whatsoever to see to e to depression to suicide. Matter of fact grant Arvidsson doctor at a sports concussion program at Mass General Hospital for children. He wrote a paper published in two thousand sixteen that found. Nfl players were a lot at a lot lower risk than the general population. This blew me away. I knew this but I didn't know the numbers I mean. This is by a lot. He found that only twenty six suicides out of two thousand six hundred seventy two men who have played in the NFL. Since inception I think twenty six thousand with a two thousand twenty six suicides out of Twenty. Six thousand seven hundred and two fell players since its inception. Now that that number seems low to me. It might be a little higher because we know of. Yeah I mean I might have ballooned in. The last ten years. Surprised me and we're going to get to the reason why that might be the reason why that might be happening. I mean in that paper. He writes conceptualizing suicide as being the result of small focal epicenters. Dow Are Progressive. Degenerative Topography Towel. Poverty is currently scientifically premature overly simplistic and potentially fatalistic. Now let's touch on that. A little bit fatalistic wasn't me by that? Well like you said if you thank you got. Cte One okay. So if you're looking at a life of nerdy generative failure you know you not been able to eat and talk and remember stuff like why not offer yourself. We might be seen an increase the suicides because of fear of Cte as a matter of fact we know of a fact that one did happen. Todd Hewitt retired. Nfl Player who became convinced that his mood swings and suicidal thoughts were due to see T. He took his own life in two thousand fifteen killed themselves. I mean Diony of that is that on examination. It was found that he did not have a single telltale tau protein in his brain. He did not have CTE. Now Todd's widow wanted has brain tested to see if he had to eat when he died so she sent it to the Canadian? Sports Concussion project to a researcher there and this researcher was extremely thorough. She did not see the signs of C. T. E. in the brain so hurry. Common practice was to send samples to three other labs to independently. Confirm her findings. Which is what most scientists do exactly and there are so few research centers like that. So be you got a hold of one of them. So I don't if she's Senate to be you or the widow wasn't satisfied with the preliminary results and then went back to be you later at the time of publication of brainwashed. There was no input from B. U. On this case so Merle Hodge actually put something in the book that said. You should look it up to see if maybe has come out with their because he would bet that. Be You find that there was not easy so I did a quick Google Search and sure enough b. you had diagnosed him with C. T. E. What does that say a stage or did it to say Stage two stage to see. How in the world could he have stage to? Ct and nobody else picked up on that. Boston University is the only one that could pick up on that. Yeah okay. There's some say that his wife asked request Sibi and to look at the brain if you WANNA see. Tv diagnosis. Go to Boston University. Exactly but anyhow thought that he had CD and it just scared to mess out and so he killed himself. I mean that's irony right there that the only aspect of Cte known to cost suicide is the actual fear of it. Larry Johnson. That's running back in two time pro bowler for the Kansas City chiefs. He's been arrested six times five of them for assault charges against women. He was waived by the chiefs in two thousand nine after he was suspended for conduct detrimental to the club. Whatever that means Espn did an article on him with the title. Here's the title former. Nfl running back. Johnson believes living with. That's the title now. Remember folks. You can't diagnose while you're la the only way you can do that is when you dead. Fox News. Abc News Sports illustrated Washington Post. Cbs Sports Reuters USA. Today bleacher report just about every news organization and sports outlet has carried his story where he claims the troubles in his life are due to C. T. e. remember can be diagnosed after death. He's blaming everything on. Cte without any evidence whatsoever in the media is helping him carry that water wet like Kellen winslow when he into all his legal troubles. That's what everyone was blaming. He I don't know that he was but in a lot of comments on some of the bucks forums. That's immediately what people jump to your the thought of getting CD's scaring the mess out of players and it's also giving them a basically car blunk to act any way they want to act and blame it on. C. T. E. In October two thousand thirteen article and Deadspin Matthew McCarthy a physician at New York Presbyterian Hospital wrote about encountering a former NFL player in psychiatric ward of New York Hospital. Who told him that? He was paralyzed by the fear that he was quote walking around with a death sentence over his head because of CTE has bad media stuff is getting in players heads. Michigan's Jack Miller yukons Casey cocker an Eugene. Monroe of the Ravens. Chris Borland of the forty niners. They've all quit playing football for the specific reason a fear of Cte in a guardian article. When Rose said he plans to consult with a doctor about his health but admits he has concerns for its future. He says quote the last eighteen years have been full of traumatic injuries to both my head and my body. I'm not complaining stating affect. Has the damage to my brain already been done? Do I have C. T. E. I hope I don't but over ninety percent of the brains of former. Nfl players that have been examined show signs of the disease. I am terrified in quote. He's using that bad science about ninety percent of the brains of former NFL players at Ct. And it scared it's caused the gotta quit played football now. He's living in fear Ed Cunningham. Who served as a color analyst for ABC and Espn College Football for twenty years resigned in two thousand seventeen because he could no longer support a sport which causes Cte. It's craziness it's craziness. Matter of fact. The Guy Peter Cummings. Who Helped Merril Hodge right brainwashed? He was a believer. That was horrible for football players. He wouldn't let his kids play seat. Play football until he did the research and when he read up on it that's what he got kind of miffed he was like. Wow and he knows what he's looking at when he reads these studies and because he's a neuropathologist himself right and so we're scaring parents from enrolling their kids into football where scaring players were scaring every anybody everybody involved in the NFL is just you know it's fear central. Cte is going to make everybody walking zombies how they make it out to be not in the time period between two thousand eight to two thousand and thirteen. Nearly three million fewer children have played basketball soccer track and field baseball softball and football less than one in three children between ages. Six to twelve participated in a high calorie burning sport or fitness activity three times a week. This is according to sports and Fitness Industry Association. Let's think about that for a second. One in three children between the ages of six twelve participated less than one in three so less than thirty percent of kids out. There are getting any physical activity with sports childhood. Obesity is an epidemic in America. There's no doubt about that. Obesity in generals and evidently the last thing we need to do is scare kids away playing sports. That's for sure and obesity is more deadly than concussions. By far you know so we're scared people with the east of keeping them out playing sports and they're getting fat which is more deadly than getting concussions or C. T. I love what I'm Merle. Honda's anecdotes in the book was that he was coaching youth. Football and one of his players missed because he had fallen on the playground and broken wrist. And then someone else had fallen. You know doing something else playing tag I'll say. And so he was out for a few weeks it was like he joked to his players. Okay you guys. Don't go to recess anymore because I need you to play football with us how we feel about JP hate me. Basically putting bubble wrap off season going out there getting hurt but it's tips. It just goes to show. There's danger every major everywhere but we're living in this mentality in the Western civilization that we've gotta protect everybody from everything you know. Safety is more important anything and this is ridiculous. I mean I think. The vast majority of America's mental health problems and physical health problems. Obesity in particular is due to the lack of a vomit sports and activities landfill lately. The benefits sports are astronomical. I mean not only. Do you get the physical activity you get better men of acute mental acuity team building exercises. I mean it's great for learning how to work with people Moral character built. The alert had lose. Most sports is losing. You GOTTA learn how to lose a good winner it's just a NFL. God when you work out. Yeah so this. Cte scare is just going everywhere. That's being promulgated by the NF by the media now the NFL has done a tremendous job in the medical community itself has done a tremendous job with concussions absolutely tremendous. I didn't know all the research has been done with this all the work that the NFL's done when we all know about the the helmet rules we know about the rules on the field about it. You know hit players and had all that stuff but they've done all kinds of stuff you know. They got the medical doctors on the sidelines. They keep players off the field from concussions. Now when you get on which we didn't know before concussions you'd need to rehab from a concussion how this was a fascinating part that there are six different types of concussions and they all each require different treatment but again there is no evidence whatsoever none Zip Nada that football causes. Cte or even the concussions caused C. T. E. or that C. T. is a progressive degenerative brain disease as everybody likes to say this. There's no there's no science behind that is none so not only do we know that. Ct is not proven to be caused by. Concussions is definitely not the leading factor. I mean there's all kinds of things that contribute to Dow proteins in the brain such as opioid use Obesity stress drinking. All kinds of stuff is all kinds of stuff that causes some of the most damaging evidence to me that the C. t. e. stop is basically a scam is and this is. What kind of Gra freaked me out? When it first started happening. His looking most announcers. I mean Chris Collins Tony Romo Troy Aikman deigned fouts. There's a ton of X. NFL players that are on TV that are thriving thriving and they all play back before. Cte was a thing. Does it tell me Roma he wasn't in the League was much more physical back then in they? They're all fine and not only. Are they find? They're doing jobs. That the average person would find very very difficult to do. I mean sitting there and talking for three and a half hours. Four hours is really hard to do and keeping track of people's names and stuff. It's it's not. It's not an easy job but the fact that retired. Nfl players as a group are healthier and live longer than the general population to me is a damning indictment of the current theory on CD. Right I have a few stats to back that up. Let me just run them off. Quick there was one thousand nine hundred four study of three thousand four hundred thirty nine players. Who played between one thousand nine hundred fifty nine and nineteen eighty eight and the players that they looked at have played for at least five seasons so there was a good threshold there they the NFL players were forty two percent less likely to develop cancer twenty percent less likely to die respiratory disease had a forty six percent lower overall mortality rate than the general population. A two thousand nine study found former football players. Were no more likely to suffer from symptoms of depression than the general. Actually I thought it was the exact opposite. I thought they were happier study. Well maybe two thousand nine study also found twenty nine percent of retired. Nfl players over the age of fifty reported bouts of anger and losing control compared to forty seven percent of the male population so less. Yeah so less likely. That's almost half right. And they were less likely to be investigated for homicide than the general population. Seventy one okay. Yeah well you probably miss this too. And the it's kind of indicative of the conversation we should be having but were not There was a study that came out in two thousand eighteen. That looked at a hundred eighty-one orthopedic surgeons neurosurgeons. Who were also the chairs of their departments. So we're not talking about just -CCOMPLISH physicians. We're talking about seriously accomplished physicians and they looked at how many of them play contact sports in high school or College. Then they compared the rate of play with the General Population. They found that orthopedic and Neuro Surgery. Chairs were more likely than the general population to have played context boards in high school and a lot more likely then to had played in college and they were also more likely to have suffered at least one concussion in their lifetime. Their conclusion is directly straight. From the report quote the high prevalence of youth contact sports. Play and concussion. Among Surgical Specialty chairs affirms that individuals and careers requiring high motor and cognitive function frequently. Play contact sports in quote so it just doesn't make any sense the whole scare behind. Ct WHAT'S GOING ON WHY. The media keeps bashing cramming it down our throats What what's the reason for? Why is it happening? I mean there's absolutely no evidence to suggest that it causes depression that it causes suicide that it's Pepsi is caused by. Repeated blows to the head the matter of fact. Here's a strange thank. The human body is very weird. It's let's call it anti fragile. If you ever read any seem to let you know what I'm talking about. He gets stronger. The more you use it the more pressure you put on it the stronger it gets. It's not fragile. It's anti fragile. It doesn't break under pressure. It gets stronger under pressure. That's the way the human body is all the human body. Is that design that away our bones. We don't use gladness space when they come back. Their bones are almost osteoporosis. Because they can't use the bone space. There's no impact the more you use your bounce the stronger they get the more you use your muscles the stronger they get. That's the way our whole body is to. Why wouldn't our brain be the same way you know? The more impacts at takes the stronger gets against impacts for sure. We look if you've ever had the unfortunate experience to fight a amateur or professional boxer. You will know. It's like getting hit with a sledgehammer. Their arms are not getting more fragile. The more they punch their bones are getting more solid third. Their muscles are getting more strong and they become better boxers by hitting stuff know. Who's to say that the getting impacts to the head whether they be For Sub. Because it doesn't make you more resilient to getting impacts to the head we don't know we're just assuming that getting impacts of the head causes neurologically. Deandre of diseases. There's no evidence at all to show this matter of fact there's been all kinds of things where people have had pipe shot through their head. That do not had any problems. We don't know whole lot about the brain you know and like you said earlier. We're not. We're not calling for women's sports especially women's soccer to be looked at and regulated the same way we are the NFL. Why is that matter of fact we're holding? Nfl Soccer Women's in NFL soccer. We're holding women soccer up on a pedestal. You know they win the Olympics. Everybody is like the best thing in the world. You didn't hear a single article about Tim. Talking about how dangerous it is for these women to be playing soccer. You know how they're probably going to get seeds killing people. So why is that? What is the reason you gotta you gotTa theories ideal? I don't WANNA say them. You don't want to sound sound. Like a conspiracy theorist I think there's a number of different reasons. I'll tell you what you say. Some of your reason I would say the biggest thing is toxic masculinity so big one. I do believe that's a big one. There is a there has been movement for a long time to get rid of any type of masculine characteristics and ration. Yes in in Westerns society. Anyhow and I think the NFL being the leading sport contacts context board is a prime target for that mentality. You know they just think that violence I I actually know this. I have a relative who is like that and she firmly believes that violence and sports is a bad bad thing. She wants to get rid of all of it. Basically supports a journal. She thinks it's stupid so when they're coming after the NHL to not quite to the degree that they are then fell but got I remember when their radar when it came after the boxing. I think it was in the eighties. They just told him F off boxing. They didn't have no time for that message. Whatever shut up get out of our face. Think another problem is the people think the NFL is big tobacco you know. We'd love to have this. David and Goliath type thing and the Big Tobacco was proven to have done some pretty bad things. And so now everybody's looking for the next big tobacco and they see the NFL As Big Tobacco Corporate Boogeyman. Yes yes yes well. The media portrays corporations and Business America as boogeyman anyhow. You which is funny. Because the media's corporate I mean Gosh Yeah. Most of the newspapers are owned by these same five companies or mega rich people in. There's also the white savior complex. You know you've got the vast majority of the NFL. I'm not sure what the the numbers are. But I think it's around sixty seventy percent might even be a little bit higher of NFL. Players are African American. And so you got a lot of people feel like they have to constantly protect African American community. You know they got to not just protect them but you know be their saviors and so they feel like a part only is helping them out here. But you're what are you gonNA end up doing is taking all these thousands of fell players who have become multimillionaires to the NFL sports. It take that opportunity away fro which is usually what happens. When you have these white sites or complexes you end up hurting more than yet and helping but then there's also the money scam can't leave that out the NFL to fund Boston University Center. But they did pull their funding from there but sources like the National Institute for Health or pumping millions in grant money to Boston University so We know what that usually ends up. You know it's hard to to say there's not a problem if you're getting paid to say there's a problem the H. awarded thirty billion per year in grants to individuals at universities medical schools and other research institutions now. When of university gets a grant about sixty percent of that money goes to university development office? That's the school's fundraising arm. The leftovers go to research. So you're looking at about forty percent of grants go to research that makes a grant a huge cash cow for universities and one of the ways to get these grants to promote your facility in your facility is publishing research papers and getting in the news when they apply for grants that are more likely to get that money. Basically grants turned private in universities like Boston University into for profit machines which is not necessarily a bad thing but the incentives do get distorted. The more Boston University. Cte Center can keep its work in the news and paint. Cte As a score jr on the planet so he sent Scorch. The more status center will get in the more money. University will bring in the priority blatant about it too in two thousand Sixteen Boston. University's annual report is essentially a plea for money and features an entire spread with Dr McKee. Who is leading researcher at the the CTE Center at Boston? University Robert Stern. They're both driving home. The same grim story about suffering football players nor increase the school's endowment and As Merril Hodge says in his book fears winning. And it's easy to see why the sensationalist media coverage that brainwashed half the country into believing the science behind. Cte a sound has parents feel like they're putting their children in danger because they want to let their sons play tackle football. Instead of sitting on the couch playing minecraft that has a real human cost because the segment of the population that seem the most precipitous. Drop off team sports from forty six point nine percent kids in two thousand twelve to just thirty four point. Six percent in two thousand sixteen is the segment where the household income is less than twenty five thousand dollars a year so basically the lower income children are not getting involved in sports because of fear of C. t. e. so that I think there's a bunch of reasons why C. T. E. is become the narrative with the NFL and head injuries and Cussin' are concussions. You want to read some fascinating stuff like Molly said the they they found that a lot about concussions and they're six different types and they've got treatments for each one of them and they're very good at treating them. We used to think you caution you go into a room a darkroom and you lay down. They found the worst possible thing. You can do in order to give concussion. Get Those Tau proteins out of your head for building up. You have to exercise the brain. You have to do things we have to actively use your brain and depending on what type of concussion you have. They'll describe certain therapies for you but they all involve using your brain and the There's a one involves the the stimulus system where you know controls your balance and all that good stuff and you would think if you get a concussion that affects that the best thing to do would be to just kind of chill out relax. You know what they get you to do is to try to balance yourself on one foot all this you to practice and practice and practice it is basically just like when you work out a muscle. You're getting the lactic acids out of your muscle. You're flushing the system out getting this proteins addict brain. It's basically physical therapy for your brains physical therapy for your brain. So you know they felt great job with implementing that concussion protocols into the system. But we're not hearing about the good stuff all we're here's the bad stuff in the bad stuff as bad science and being done because we'd love to be scared. We'd love to have savior complexes. It's what sells. It's what sells you get that collect with Clinton babies. We've got people that want to get rid of masculinity especially what they call toxic masculinity footballers right up there at the top of that list. And then we've got the whole big tobacco NFL similarities. You know people think they're doing a good thing but knock in the NFL down but you not so we thoroughly enjoyed brainwash the book by Merrill. Hajja M Peter Comey and south highly. Recommend highly recommend that you can get it on Amazon. Their problem with questioning the current narrative. A. C. T. E. Is that you will be accused of being a Denier C. t. e. denier science denier. And that's not the case we're not saying concussions. Don't cause problems we're not saying. Cte doesn't exist. We're not saying that head. Traumas good for you. We're not even saying that You know the new rules in the NFL. The trying to reduce head traumas are bad thing. But it's a serious issue that requires very thoughtful investigation and the fearmongering doesn't help. It should be baseless on science not emotion. Facts exact facts. So if you get a chance. Pick up brainwashed brainwashed brainwashed brainwashed brainwashed brainwashed or and you can read Dr Cummings Article On. Yahoo Seems Peter. Cummings you can google an article probably GonNa put a reference on the website buccaneers observer DOT COM listing a lot of the articles. We used in reference. Here I'll put the list of investigative journalists who I feel have done a very good job at breaking the stuff down. We'll put list to the some of the studies we used but the whole thing of it is it's a great thing that the NFL is doing what they're doing. I think they're doing a fantastic job. And it's great that is being brought to the forefront and there's people looking into it there are a lot of researchers that are investigating the whole issue. It's not just Boston. University their signs around the world investigating this problem Boston. University's control the narrative. Because that's where that's where media when they want to get a quote or get some information. They always go to Boston University so they get to control the narrative in they're getting all the grant knowledge to another interesting tidbit about them controlling the narrative. Is that in the Peer Review Process? It's very political and you can request that certain people peer review your research and so- Boston University is involved in the Peer Review Process. So a lot of people especially Boston. University scientists will have other Boston University. Scientists peer review their stuff and some people are worried about publishing research that contradicts the narrative. Because it could negatively impact them professionally. Science should not be that way politico. You should have as much as possible. You want as many different theories and research studies out there as you can get but we're not getting that well we're not getting the truth about it. I mean we're we're getting a lot of good medical work but it's not getting out to the public so the Cte scare. We hope you learn something from this as long podcast. We've been wanting to do it for a long time. We actually had a combined twelve pages of notes this has been. I've been researching this sense. I would say two thousand fourteen. I've been listening to it from Ralph since about two thousand fourteen. Well two thousand fourteen. When I found my first notes that I took on it but I think I I've been following for years. Two thousand fourteen. I went all right enough of this. I'm going to start finding out what I can find out about it. Stop depending on other people to tell me what to now. So you know the take everything with the greatest song especially if it comes from Btu Or be you from their department You know there is some good signs out there but there's also a lot of really bad signs of the seems like the bad scientists white being pushed Be careful with what you could. Soon bump the media as usual and that's pretty much going to wrap it up for us to follow us on twitter check us out at bucks underscore observer. That's our twitter handle. We also have a youtube page just research for Buccaneers Observer We have website buccaneers observe DOT COM. If you WANNA get touch with molly you can Center EMAILED MOLLY BAY AT OBSERVER DOT COM. If you want to send me an email. It's Ralph at BUCCANEERS OBSERVER DOT COM. And that's pretty much wrapping up for us next time backs.
You May Be Surprised To Learn Which 2 Countries Are Making The Globe A Lot Greener
"Support for this NPR podcast and the following message. Come from the UPS store, offering services from shredding to printing to mailbox ING and instead of closing this holiday. The UPS store is doing another ING altogether. Opening the UPS store every ING for small business. And of course, shipping the world is getting greener satellite images collected over the past decade show that there is more green vegetation on our planet, especially in China and India NPR's, Dan Charles reports Cheech in is a PHD student at Boston University, and he's been analyzing satellite images of earth pixel by pixel so we have millions of pixels to cover the entire group. He can monitor the earth's surface week by week and see how much of it's covered with green leaves this week in the journal nature sustainability he reported that between two thousand and two thousand seventeen the land on our planet grew more heavily covered with green vegetation. For longer periods. The earth's surface getting green there the data. Don't tell us. Exactly why. But there are some interesting clues, you can see which places are getting greener or Browner, and you can investigate what's been happening there. For instance. There's one section of Brazil. That's lost vegetation. I personally checked data. This record soft jot. It's because of drought. Yes. On the other hand, take China and India they've been getting a lot greener, and this is not because of weather or climate change. It's because of human decisions, Molly Brown, a geographer. At the university of Maryland has seen this greening up close. These are really good examples of how policy can really make a difference the greening in India. She says is because of a huge expansion of irrigated agriculture instead of having just crops when it's raining. They also have a whole, you know, six months up cropping and greenness when it's not raining. This kind of green isn't. Really so great for the environment. It drains groundwater gets wiped away at harvest and the extra fertilizer farmers use releases greenhouse gases in China. The much of the new green is from a massive reforestation effort, the government's attempt to prevent dust storms are really doing a good job. They have very large and comprehensive tree planting tree maintenance, and those trees will stay there. She says capturing dust and also carbon dioxide greenhouse gas, storing it in wood and roots and soil the Charles NPR news. This message comes from NPR sponsor. Comcast business. Business has always been driven by innovators. That's why Comcast business is helping you with technology that provides better experiences. Comcast business beyond fast.
As Colleges Reopen, How To Keep Students And Communities Safe?
"Three, hundred million to more than half a billion dollars that is the budget hole. The NBA could face in fiscal year, twenty, twenty two, and that's after figuring out how to fill a seven, hundred, twenty, million dollars. For this fiscal year with a statewide unemployment rate right now, that is the worst in the nation more people working from home high demand from essential workers on bus lines and the risk of covid nineteen infection in close spaces. How does our public transit bounce back? Well, let's turn to. General Manager Steve Pop Tech Talk about that, Steve Welcome back to Radio Boston. Thanks for having me again. And listeners. If you have a question for the head of the t call us at one, eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five, that's one eight, hundred, four to three talk Steve yesterday we had Boston Mayor Marty Walsh, and we were reflecting on the fact that the Commonwealth has now lived through basically seven months of this pandemic. How are you? How's? How's it going? Oh I'm fine. It's obviously a challenge to manage in this environment but you know we are prioritizing obviously the safety of our employees and the safety of our vehicles facilities. So we continue to provide service and obviously you mentioned we're working through some pretty significant budget challenges right now. Let's talk about that. You know said you said obvious is a challenge to manage in this environment. We've been talking regularly over the last year. There were challenges before the pandemic maintenance backlogs capital improvements you were working on pension fund liabilities that were derailment last. Now here comes this pandemic and the financial impact of it. As concerned listeners how do we put our heads around this deficit? How big deal is this? Well it's the big deal In the next fiscal year right now we're in the beginning our fiscal year starts July one. So right now we are at the beginning of fiscal year twenty, twenty one, which we have balanced impart with hundreds of millions of dollars in funding from from the Cares Act but we are already starting to look ahead at twenty two where we've got you know at least three hundred. Eight million dollar deficit and you know depending on how ridership trends, it could be worse So we are starting to take action now in order to to to address that and I think giving him the size of the size and importance of the tea we need to start taking action now Cisco Year Twenty Twenty One if we want to manage our way through fiscal, twenty, twenty two. And to be clear, the cares act money is essential because without it and the ability to borrow as I understand it to pay Labor for capital improvements. You might also in this fiscal year be facing about seven hundred million dollars gap is that right? All told for the sort of the tail end of F Y twenty. Game that Cova epidemic started in March and in fiscal year twenty one, we will be utilizing the entire eight, hundred twenty, seven, million dollars that we got in stimulus funding in order to make the bandits work for those two years. So steep. I was looking at the projections and so much of it relies on. Ridership returns to certain levels of capacity in eighty percent seems to be the big number that the three hundred, eight, million dollar. Projection is based on the lots of variability there where is ridership now and how does it compare to at the beginning of the pandemic? What's that? Last. Six months. Looked like. Sure you know ridership is somewhere between fifteen and twenty percent, but I would say it is very variable between load the bus in the Blue Line and the ride are all at about forty percents the ridership that we had in late February The the rest of the subway system red orange and green is clustered around twenty percents and then commuter rail and ferry down closer to ten percent ridership. Has has that stayed essentially flat Steve over the course of the pandemic so far or has grown in one of those areas you know they've all grown to some degree bottomed out sometime in April when boss was down at twenty percent. So about has gone from twenty percents to forty percent. The Blue Line was down at fifteen percents, and then the other some way services were down around eight to ten percent. So it it has grown over It has grown over this period. I think has more people have come out and the governor's reopening phases have gone through but we haven't seen we haven't seen big inflection points where you know they they. Another phase occurs and five to ten percent of the ridership comes back all at once we haven't seen that yet. We're GONNA pay special attention to the fall you know in September is the return to college students GonNa Cause an upward jump. EPS. Right now is going to be remote through November. So we don't expect that the cause of bump and we'll see some certain offices opened up a little bit more as well. So just just quickly, Steve for our listeners will begin bringing students back into the classroom as the plan goes in a phased approach beginning October but students won't all be fully back in with the older grades not coming in until early to mid November just for our listeners. So if that is the case, these projections are looking at eighty percent ridership potentially by September twenty, twenty one or January twenty twenty two what is happening in those projections that is taking ridership and the bus from forty percent to eighty percent around other forms of transportation from like fifteen or twenty percent to eighty percent. Yeah we we actually we're not expecting to get up to eighty percent ridership until September twenty, twenty, two in our in our projection. So we excuse me, September, Twenty Twenty, one pardon me So you know that would be after this fiscal year is over You know it you know well, right now we're doing the best we can. To forecast scenarios where people gradually return offices open up and ridership increases we did go through the exercise of saying Jeez what if eighty percent number either comes significantly later or if it doesn't come at all and you know surprisingly ridership doesn't come back our our budget situation becomes becomes more difficult to solve just because the revenue isn't there. Let's talk about buses for a minute. Stevie. We're talking about ridership on buses especially on certain lines I think. Really being higher significantly we know from historic research that there is a correlation between reliance on bus and socioeconomic status where you live in the city. It can be economic and social justice issue just as we have learned that patterns of spread and vulnerability and access to healthcare can also be racial justice socio economic justice issues. So how are you thinking about this reliance on buses? What are you doing to respond to it to protect people safety to to not have people too crowded together on buses? You making point it's. A ridership on buses and forty percent but that is not evenly spread through bus lines and we have You know we have a number of bus lines that serve economically disadvantaged area as there where ridership is significantly higher and what we've done for the false schedules is we have moved buses off of. Other lines where there is lower ridership. In some cases, we have suspended some routes and we put more capacity in the places where we have observed crowding in addition you know we continue to require masks on our vehicles We also collect and distribute realtime crowding data for about seventy percent of our buses that you can. You can get on NBC. Dot. COM, and a number of third party apps so that you know it's folks want to see how how crowded is the bus that's coming towards me, and is there a less crowded bus shortly behind they have that information for the people who have the the flexibility to to move their travel plans around I. You know I fully acknowledge not everyone has that privilege. Let's talk about masks Stephen we talked in May. You said that essentially the t couldn't enforce mask usage on the T. for riders and I wonder has is that still the policy has that changed I do know that masks are mandatory in order to ride the T. but what about enforcement? Massa required on not The as part you know based on the governor's executive order there's a couple of exceptions for health and the executive order. It also preclude you from demanding that people prove that they have health condition. So it you know puts us in a position where we really need people to wear masks on the teeth for their safety and the safety of others. It puts us in a position where would be difficult to enforce and I think there's a number of problematic issues around making that a law enforcement issue and I don't think there's any you know I don't think there's any transit property in the country that is treating it as a law enforcement issue. We're really asking folks to comply with it. It's the right thing to do for yourself is the right thing to do for your fellow passengers and our employees. So, just to clarify the t police, for example, do not have a role that they are now playing in enforcing mass usage on mask usage I'm not. No, and in fact, I think the executive order does not even if we wanted to does not give them the opportunity to do that. So. How'd you help riders feel safe than if I mean, we see social media is full of memes videos from all over the country of people refusing to wear masks inside all kinds of stores and buildings and the employees of those stores and buildings feeling helpless to enforce that or sometimes trying to force people out of a store. With the close proximity and how important the tears is for people to get to and from work to get to places they need to go how do you help them feel safe. I mean we have put forward a pretty extensive campaign ride safer where we're asking people to wear masks. We've got visuals in many of our stations in our buses again, asking people to wear masks. When I ride on the system I, see people wearing masks people are buying large complying. And and you know, I hope people continue to do. So I do think mask wearing has sort of become normative. Now around when you're out in around at least in the Greater Boston area and I hope that continues I. You know I it is a trembling trend nationally where it's I think it's gotten wrapped up in a bunch of other issues. It's the right thing to do from a public health perspective we're really we're asking our riders to comply. So. You're dropping prices starting September first. So cash and Charlie ticket prices are going to be lowered to match Charlie. Card prices, Decreases are not something. We see a lot what was the thinking here and why started on September first Thinking was this is a this is something that abroad I would say a broad group of advocates had asked for that folks who do not have my charlie card but are using cash or Charlie ticket where in effect paying surcharge and they were saying that it, you know the the prices should be equalized So that's something that the board decided they wanted to do this year So we you know we put it in. Place it is the precursor to the much larger multiyear fair transformation project, which is going to phase out the use not right now but eventually phase out the use of cash on buses and also give people a lot more options in terms of the fair media that they can use. If you still WANNA use some variant of the Charlie Card you can but you'll also be able to use a bunch of different other types of media. You have said elsewhere that everything's on the table in terms of what might happen or ideas to close the gap and get the tea back to financial stability. What might not happen that you have planned for in order to close this gap what might go away. You, know I think we're right at the beginning of a public dialogue that's you know we want to present to the board, some options Again, we are looking at everything you know turns and being aggressive about new revenue sources unfortunately right now, a lot of the things that we depend on for Revenue Tartan isn't being that utilized. So we can you know we. Can, we can tweak that all. We want not necessarily going to get us significant news new, and we'll also be taking. We will be taking a look at some where, where are the places where we might need additional service and where the places where perhaps we're providing service and we don't necessarily have the ridership So you know again, everything is on the table at this point. Steve I know you know that Raider Writers sometimes have a love hate relationship with the t love t rely on it loved the freedom of it get frustrated with some of the history of derailments the challenges, for example, the winner of two thousand fifteen. Maintenance that's been deferred. But now we have this moment where it feels like the economy is saying the tea is existential threat and no one wants that what do we do to make sure our T. is still here for all writers. This is why we've engaged in this process. Now, right we have the budget for the next fiscal year that is balanced we need to start planning. Now we need to attempt to set aside as much money as we can to address the gap and twenty two, and that's what we're doing. I expect that we will have difficult conversations this fall, but I think. I think the intent is to make sure that we have. We preserve an NBA that works this region and we preserve a base here at the NBA that at some point in the future we can begin to build out from again. and. That is Steve Puff tack the General Manager of the NBA State. Appreciate you joining us good to talk to you on Radio Boston again. Thanks for having me. Now August is not usually playoff season. Honest. But this year we have to Boston. James. Roaring into the second round of their respective playoffs. So what better time to check the score with Radio Boston's Chris Citric Chris Welcome back. Well, and there is so much sports news that it takes to also joining us is Howard Bryant senior writer for Espn and sports correspondents for NPR's weekend edition Saturday Howard welcome back to you to. See on how you doing. Great to have you. Thanks. So listen last time we talked about sports on Radio Boston. The big question we were asking was who was going to win in the battle between professional sports and the corona virus it's been playing out for several weeks. Now, I'll start with you Chris what do you think? I think it's kind of a mixed bag. I give you the cliff not answer that basketball and hockey or winning I think baseball is losing and football's kind of doing that plug your ears Lala I can't hear you to some of the warning signs they're getting. Howard I don't know do you agree with that assessment? Yeah. I think that the bubble is what's winning if you are nonverbal all kinds of trouble and certainly I think that the the College College Sports in college sports pro football especially, they had so much more time than everybody else to have a plan in it still feels like they don't really have one. How is that possible? seriously. How is it possible to not have a plan at this point? Well. I tend to think that what really happened in the NFL when this all went down in March is that they felt like this wasn't their season. It wasn't going to affect them at this was all going to be in the past by summertime and it wasn't and I think in college I think the big issue with college I interested in your thoughts on that too is that I think that in college I believe that they didn't recognize how much of a gap there was going to be between shutting down the campuses and still making the athletes show up and so there there's a huge question about amateurism and everything else that that corona viruses really unleashed. Yeah absolutely and TCI. I. Think we've seen this kind of across the whole spectrum of life. Right like schools don't seem to have a fully fleshed out plan as we're approaching the new school year. I think this virus is so. New and unique it. No one really understood what exactly we're dealing with and and everybody kind of approached it with a a wishful. thinking sort of mindset that as Howard said, by the time fall rolls around, we'll be through the worst of it clearly that doesn't seem to be the case. Yeah. I one other. Actually. Other thing is that I think there was also a shift in the summertime and I think somewhere along the line there was this get on with shift that okay. Well, you know every warhead casualties and I think that people have just added that, hey, this is what life is going to be like we all need to get on with it. Especially when proteins are looking at the financials they're looking at it saying we can't. We can't go forward unless we're not GONNA, take these losses. All right. So let's talk about the proteins for a minute and Chris Dealer's choice. We got three Boston pro teams playing right now bruins Celtics and the socks where you're gonNA. START I'm loving this first of all in terms of the the APP, the the buffet that we're getting in terms of. Although. No one really wants a buffet these days. I'm GonNa Start Bruins because I think this team has been so much fun to watch. We've got game to coming up tonight in the second round against Tampa. Bay. Lightning. It's the first night of a back to back which does not happen in hockey playoffs ever So this is going to be a really interesting test in terms of stamina and keeping up that energy Yuka wake up on Thursday in the Bruins. Theories just like that. So I think it's going to be a really interesting game tonight, and again, this is fun team to watch. Coward Chris Gaga about the Bruins. So let me just ask you to are you loving this team as much as he does, and are they going to be up by three on Thursday? Well. That's two different questions there. I think I didn't predict that. I do not see the Bruins went in three in a row over Tampa Bay one of my favorite cliches these teams do not like each other and they don't, and they're doing a lot of fight a lot of pushing around tonight I. Think the thing that I like most about this Bruins team is that they've actually walked the walk pretty well in a couple of really important areas. One is that nobody sort of went onto rask and maybe they're to be believed maybe they really do believe that they lost their goalie and he chose not to play an opt out and they're not gonNA, penalize him for and also. Lack, the backup goaltender is like Hey I've been a playoff. Golly before this is my time to shine. This is great, and then also you've got players like David. Pasha who hadn't played an a a couple of games either due to injury your you know the unable to perform covid type of why isn't he on the ice question and they've they've sort of survived at all and they're. Actually looking better than they have since restart began I want to stay up on that Howard because I think that's really interesting to Rask pulled out. You Know Ninety minutes before game three of the last round was a complete surprise. It seemed to the whole team citing a we've. We think there's some sort of family emergency there. So he wanted to spend time with his family Is really picked it up and just kind of they didn't seem to miss a step sliding him into the net. Curious kind of what you what you think his performance. Well, outside of the outside of the one giveaway goal against Carolina, he's been great and I think that the players. Is that he needs more help they certainly have focused defensively to make sure that he's not as exposed but I think also I really went into this this this final final floor in the eastern conference thinking that the Bruins had the best line they've got the best perfection line of of all the teams but at the same time I thought they had the weakest goalie and so I think sometimes what you see is you see the professionalism of some of the players, a of a guy like. Wait of it. I'm not the weak link. Let me prove that I'm just as good as everybody else. I may be your asset. So, Chris I wanNA take us all the way back to more innocent times at the beginning of the first part of the hockey season when you were trying to get me emotionally involved with the balloons because you were very excited about them and then when they came back, you sounded concerned you don't sound concern now. No I, I really think there was a moment where they flip the switch and I want to highlight specific place because I think there were such huge moments in terms of this team and the whole attitude you're seeing up and down the lineup. And Howard you can probably guess where I'm going here. But basically, we're going back to game four of the last round. Starts the Bruins were up were down excuse me to nothing and they had outshot the hurricanes. They seem to be out playing the hurricanes, but they couldn't get the puck in the net and then Jacob risk on a breakaway s to dive to get over the goalie to finish the play. Here's what it sound like. Nita rider terrorism stick. Lose. Out Kasha. Jacob Roskin. Cars. Getting away from. Dodging reiver's kamikaze. It's. Just Stop Jake do cross. So just about two minutes later after that Charlie, mcevoy who has really come into his own during these playoffs young defenseman really kind of stepping into that number one defense role puts a huge hit on hurricanes Jordan staal. Here's a little bit with that. Sounded like loose near the crease marshawn battling for the PUCK. Jordan stall. BY BACK HAWAII You don't see Jordan stall get knocked down that much they still down I. Think. Wow. I just thought that was a huge swing momentum. The bruins ended up scoring four goals. In that third period, they take the three one series lead instead of maybe going seven games against the hurricanes they get to close it out early move on. Howard you think those two plays really kind of sparked the. Hundred percent and in the other direction I really thought that The number of giveaways early in this early in the series when the pasta knock on the on the. When they were on the powerplay shorthanded goal there and I was like they are going to make this thing they're gonNa drag this thing all the way at seven if they keep letting Carolina back into it and then and then all of a sudden the stall hit when he got laid out like that, you could see that Carolina looked like we can't win. And? L.. In Hits like that changed the series of reminded me that hit reminded me very much of when Nathan Horton got hit in the in the Stanley Cup and twenty eleven, and it galvanized the Bruins and suddenly they became a different team. So absolutely those those two of the big momentum change. And and it allowed the Bruins to sort of. Get Out of that sort of rest area that they were in in terms of restart because restarts not about who was the best team during the season restart is all about who's the best team during the restart who can deal with the fact that there are no fans and who can deal with the fact that the energy has gone and if they hadn't played four months, whoever adjusts that the best is going to be the best team when it's all said and done. All Right Kristen Howard. We've got just a few minutes left and I don't want to miss out on the Celtics they have been so much fun what they're just such a fun team to watch a great series against the seventy sixers now, moving on how are we feeling about them? You know I right go ahead Howard you take this. I'll be real quick. It had never happened before that the Philadelphia Seventy sixers got swept by the playoff series couldn't happen to a bunch of a bunch of guys because sixers talked so much trash they got humiliated in, and then their coach got fired. Toronto is going to be a totally different animal but that was a fun series to watch yourself expen- yeah and I totally agree with you on. This is a really fun team to watch and got a really talented young core that that stepping up and and giving a multiple scoring options. You've got Marcus smart leading the way on this kind of tough knows defense. Really. Putting the best effort on the floor diving for loose balls, things like that. Make a difference especially in basketball and other guys are really kind of feeding that energy. and. You're watching a superstar Jason Tatum. You're watching him right in front of your eyes become something really special. Yeah. I. Think Jalen Brown to I think has really stepped up agreed and Gordon Hayward injury, which looked like it might be just catastrophic for the team I mean it's it's terrible but the team seems to be doing all right without him. We'll see. I think that I think you're gonNA feel his absence against Toronto because Toronto's really really good Philadelphia was not really really good I. Think the real difference here is going to be you're going to need Jalen Brown to be more active. He's somebody you'RE NOT GONNA lose Gordon Hayward and feel absolutely nothing but this teams are good. You know the Celtics are surprising surprising team but I do feel like somewhere along the line you don't have a player at that calibrate and you just just move on with them. Yeah and they have shown the respond to adversity pretty well too in terms of either giving up leads or coming back from behind. So I do think that's an optimistic sent. Okay speaking of Adversity Chris one question only because it's just too painful. The Boston Red Sox are having their competing for one of the worst seasons in their history. What is going on? Yeah I mean it's been brutal Look. We've talked about it since the trade deadline last year I just think the ownership approach to this Qu- This group of guys they have on the field it's been clear. They're trying to shed payroll. They're trying to build for a long term future as opposed to trying to win right now, and that makes for a really frustrating product on the field. And Howard before we go I want to come back to a pretty serious subject for a minute. You written a number of books about athletes and activism and wanted to ask you what you thought about former football star Herschel Walker speaking at the Republican National Convention in Support of President Trump yesterday saying in part quote it hurts my soul to hear the terrible names that people call donald the worst one is racist and quote he played for the New Jersey generals in the eighties when Donald Trump was the owner what's your reaction to seeing him speaking there? No I had no reaction other than the fact that I thought it was A. Thing for him to say that Donald Trump had paid attention to the history of the league he don't, but we'd only been in existence one year when he bought it. So I just thought you know it just struck me as more celebrity branding. It didn't have a whole lot of value to me. Herschel Walker has the right to how Herschel Walker thanks didn't have a lot of value at all. Right let me stay with you and ask you this last question. Then we'll give it a chance to answer to Cam, Newton New England patriots. Is he the new Tom Brady on the New England patriots or more to the point is Cam Newton Cam Newton started her on the New England Patriots Well Cam Newton can play like he did in two thousand fifteen when they went in Egypt Carolina the Super Bowl I think everybody will be happy with that. My big thing about the NFL is I just WanNa see if they play number one. Yeah that's a big question mark a i. mean we saw the even had some problems with false positive tests which caused a bunch of teams across elite to have to kind of postponed practices and things like that. So who knows what that happens? Once the season's actually in full swing how they deal with that kind of thing never mind if there's an actual outbreak but I said from day one when they brought Cam Newton in here he's The star he's the most talented of the three quarterbacks they have on the roster. No doubt in my mind on until he shows he can't play at that level he's got to be the starter. All. Right. Well, at least sports are given some fun stuff to think about right now that's radio. Boston's Chris. Chris. Thanks. Thanks having. And Howard, Bryant ESPN senior writer in sports correspondent for NPR's weekend edition. Saturday Howard. Great to have you with us. Thanks now. Thank you. Thousands of students are going back to Boston University and northeastern. University this week and next the two largest universities in the city of Boston and we want to talk about it. But I have to be transparent right off the top here because I moved my own freshmen daughter Simone into a Boston University dorm this past weekend and wants the bedsheets were on the suit and the suitcases we're empty and everything was all impact. We had a brand new item on our moving list. It was her first covid test which she was required to get the day she moved in. there was a little to some liquid in it and on top of that, there was a swab I told you not to touch the swap with your hands. He wants screw the swab put it in both nostrils rolled around a little bit. Then put it down into the liquid of the tube and closed it again. And then you gave him the so took about five minutes. Now, whether you have a college age kid or not with dozens of colleges and universities, in Greater, Boston this uncharted territory of keeping students and community safe while supporting student learning is essential. So we're going to delve into it and to do that, we have to people who are involved in these decisions. One is joining us now we expect to have. The other on the line soon. So we're joined right now by Dr David Hammer he's a professor of Global Health at Boston University School of Public Health and School of Medicine, and also a member of the medical advisory group which advises the university on the public health measures and recommendations being implemented on campus. This fall Dr Hamer welcome back to Radio Boston. Thank you for having me. Glad to have you and that was perfect because we now have our other guests with us as well. Kathy Spiegelman, who is vice president and chief of Campus Planning and Development at northeastern Kathy welcomed radio, Boston. Thank you. And listeners you are you a parent, a student, a neighbor of a college or university. How do you feel about campuses reopening? Do you have questions for our experts? You can call us eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five that's eight hundred, four to three talk or you can tweet us at Radio Boston. Okay. Dr Hamer I want to start by touching on. Some of the big headlines in college reopenings over the last couple of weeks both the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill and Notre Dame have moved to fully remote learning after the coronavirus clusters on campus. University of Alabama Tuscaloosa just reported over five hundred confirmed cases I wanna ask you what are you doing to make sure a similar situation doesn't play out at your school. Let's good. Question I. I think that we. We've looked at some of the strategies. These other universities have taken I think were. Taking a much more. Broad approach I would say even more aggressive of so so. As. You mentioned with the case of your daughter at Boston. University. We are requiring everyone who arrives to be tested on arrival coming if the students moving in from a state that has higher levels of transmission than -Chusetts York England than their advised to do quarantine the first fourteen days although we're we make clear them from quarantine. If they have three negative tests. they move the move in is being done in the D densify ways so that People have to schedule the day they move in. Normally it's the three day period that everyone returns to campus. It's spread out over a fifteen days or thereabouts. And the There's just a lot of different additional measures, but I think testing is a real key part of it. We've built a laboratory to do our own testing in the turnaround time and test is less than twenty four hours. This is important because if somebody students identified who is. Infected than they need to be isolated in. So we have isolation dorm rooms that we've adopt woncern isolation. They have to stay there for at least ten days or potentially a little longer. They've had symptoms with onus and they would do their classes from that those isolation rooms we. UNC that as just an example didn't have a sufficient number of isolation beds than they very rapidly fell them but they also had different testing strategy. We're testing students twice a week. As, well as faculty and staff that have a lot of student facing contact. A lot of time on campus others will be tested once a week or potentially less often if they. Say. It's factly member that's only intermittently on campus. So testing is a key part of it of as well as isolation in contact tracing to see if there been any close contacts of students that are infected it those people are identified quickly s to actually placed in quarantine. and if they become symptomatic than than additional testings done everyone's as their. Sorry. That's SORTA stopped their. Lettuce. Thanks because I love to hear from Cathy Spiegelman as well what the plan is at northeastern I know you just made a change in students will be tested. I believe every three days there and I. I know be you has more students on campus now that the timing for northeastern is a little further out. So what's your process look like? What are you guys doing Well, it looks very much like what was just described I'm not a testing expert but I have been following very closely. 'cause my team has been working on setting up the testing facility both the lab and the testing facility and your daughter's description is very similar. To what's been going on? We've done eight thousand tests so far the move in Situ. City for US sounds a little bit different We are moving happening over eleven days usually over three to five and we're doing that in order to reduce the density and allow us to have the stream of people coming in and getting tested to be handled as conveniently an easily as possible. The parents of our students will not be going up to their dorm rooms and making their beds and setting them up. They've been notified that no visitors are gonNA come into the dorms during move in As soon as a family arrives at their assigned time, the student will be sent over to pick up their What we call their Husky card, go directly to the testing center and then go directly to their room where they will be T-. Technically in quarantine until their test results come back negative obviously if the test results come back negative, they will be transferred to the beds that we're reserving that we call wellness beds, which will be used both for students who test positive, but also through the contact tracing for students who've been exposed in order to make sure that we take them out of contact with a lot of the rest of the community. So I think it sounds very similar to be you I. Think the differences that were described by the doctor are also the differences. At northeastern from some of the other universities that have run into the difficulties that you described I will say that because I spend a lot more time thinking about the physical campus and how we are handling all the things that living and learning activities require under the guidance of the CDC in the Department of Public Health. So lots of attention lots of science lots of We have a campaign called protect the pack which reinforces for students, their responsibility to protect themselves and each other with healthy distancing wearing masks on campus, washing their hands, and then follow all the other protocols that we've developed about reducing the density in our classrooms and our dining facilities cleaning. Air, handling our buildings but also paying attention to the public around because we know that our students are not just going to be in the dorms and in the classrooms they're coming back to campus they're coming to Boston to live there campus life and we're. Very anxious for them to be able to do that to pursue their education without any disruption for the surrounding community or for our everybody else who's on the campus. So to that point of the public realm and listeners we just got very detailed explanations of exactly what is happening at these two huge institutions in Boston as students come back. What is your reaction? Does it does it make you feel safer? Are there concerns if clarifying questions what are you WanNa see from the university in your community in terms of learning and safety eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five, that's. One Eight, hundred, four to three talk. These are massive investments massive measure that you're both talking about what do you say to the listener? Who says I appreciate all of that but students simply should not be back on campus it's too risky and you cannot control their choices and behaviors when they're not in the dorms or in the buildings why is being on campus important enough to make it worth all of this, Dr? Hamer. Think it's important for students to have both interaction with other students, but to be able to directly interact with faculty to Heaven in Classics Experience. you know. I think some students may learn very well, you know via Zumur other modalities but other stone and I think that that and then being able to do clever to projects with other students no in person rather than over the Internet, I think all these are really important components of the students education and not not offering them that that opportunity that they I think it, it really changes the whole sort of tenure were feel for for students education. At and Karen Spiegelman, what do you do about the challenges of off campus life? So many of the stories that we're hearing about new clusters emerging universities students go back keep coming back to it was that off campus party where people didn't wear masks, they didn't practice social distancing. So the campaign that I described called protect the pack includes a series of communications and also compliance reinforcement Line some extra staffing and ambassadors to be working with students whether they are living in northeastern housing or they're living in other housing in the community I will echo the idea that we believe that The education of our students is very important that their choices to be able to participate. In the living and learning happens on campus is important that our students are choosing to many of our students not all some are choosing to actually pursue their education virtually we've given that option to do it, but I think the testing and the protocols and the way the contact tracing and the things that we're doing on campus we hope actually makes our students a cohort of citizens within the Boston Community who actually are practicing all the things that we hope everybody in the Boston community is practicing because we all have a responsibility to each other in this under this pandemic to be looking out for the health of ourselves and our neighbors. So let's go. After students to be committed along with. I want to go to the phones before I do Kathy Karen a minute ago I'm so sorry, I know it's Kathy as a brain lapse. Let's go to the phones eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five. That's one eight, hundred, four to three talk. We've got Donna on the line from Brockton Donna, go head. I just wanted to know if there's going to be clear consequences for students that party or congregate and don't socially distance like supposed to like we've seen on the news. If you're going to be clear consequences, they're going to be taken out of school just like for any other A thing that they do like plagiarism or fighting or anything like that. Are they gonNA be clear consequences at this is not accepted that at all? Thanks. And Kathy I think you touched on that a second ago right saying that that we're cancer northwestern literally the answer's absolutely yes We understand that we can only protect each other and be the kind of citizens and members of the community that we wanna be by making it clear that those big gatherings where people are not wearing masks are not practicing the safe protocols that we've established will not be allowed. And I WANNA grab another call here eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five. That's one eight, hundred, four to three talk Jill. You're on from South Boston go ahead. Hi. My. Name's Joel I'm a graduate of Boston University? Of two, thousand seventeen and I just wanted to add I think that the value of being on campus is so important to student life and you know Gra- gave so much to me as a student during my four years and I think that the way that the university has implemented the measures. would make me feel completely ceases to student. I just looked over there twenty page comprehensive get back to campus plan and I feel I would feel completely safe and there's a lot of personal responsibility that goes into it as well. So I think the students have everything at their fingertips and they just need to choose to implement make good decisions and. I you know I commend you for that. Thank, you Jill Dr Hamer stay put because we have a second call about you. I'll take them both again. Then give you a chance to respond. We've got Jason on the line from Stone Jason Go ahead. Hi Yes I'm actually a faculty. The you and I have to I have to call into question whether it's worth letting students prioritizing student learning over public health and I know for a fact as a faculty member that students are not going to get much of an in class experience most of the learning is going to be online you. So that's really false advertising. All right. Thank you for that call. So two very different perspectives there from an obviously we can't confirm that gills and alum and Jason is faculty, but two very different calls about be you there, Dr Hamer what are your responses I mean first of all I'd like to thank Joe. For her positive comments, we put a lot of time into the returned to campus plan. It's very detailed. So it is a little long. But I think they. It's thorough and comprehensive open with the AP trying to make the campus as safe as. To maintain the health of faculty staff and students. My slightly disagree with Jason I think you're partly right there. There's GonNa be a mixture of in class and out of class experience students have the option of shaking everything remotely. Some are doing that all classrooms have had mapping done to determine appropriate density I'm going to be teaching starting, and I guess a week and a half or so and classroom than I have allows up to sixteen students. I teach a seminar type core said we have twenty three enrolled. So at any one time like three quarters two-thirds, the class could. Be Present. I don't think they're all GONNA choose to be present but but I think that many will have an in class experience summer are opting out of that, and that's that's their choice. Others may go for mix but I think it it's not gonna it's not gonna be all online and less of course, things explode and there's a big outbreak. Can we exceed a isolation or courting to s David I think with all the measures we have in place with good enforcement and good sort of personal responsibility the this is unlikely So I want to zero in. Kathy. On something Dr Hammered said Dr Hammer. You said unless things explode and you get beyond capacity and that has been a question. What is the threshold for shutting down is at a certain level of positivity and test rates? Is it overflow on isolation and Quarantine? What is that metric? Are Able Kathy I. AM so sorry we have lost sound quality I heard you say I think there's no single metric but we've lost your sound quality I apologize for that Dr Hamer I'm GonNa. Let you pick it up. We'll see if we can get cathy back. Okay. So we we have developed some metrics inner as she working on even more complex metrics I think they're real simple ones are going to be monitoring our use of isolation. Rome's in quarantine runs in were reaching a capacity for we will I'd say, even we reached like seventy five or seven capacity that we're going to be concerned and certainly we reached full capacity we we would have to change our strategies but I think we would wanna do that earlier in order to try to avoid that happening were we've got a group a really Smart Medical Epidemiologists and statisticians mathematicians that are helping to really twin analyze both local data from the state of Massachusetts in the surrounding counties. But also on campus data to train, determine the rate of transmission estimated twins mission and how that's changing. If we see that it looks like it's increasing the that will be another measure that will cause us to change practice in potentially change the strategies. Okay and we do have Kathy spiegelman back now. So in a follow up question our last minute, Kathy are you confident that that set a forward-looking metrics is enough to keep an outbreak from happening or is it inevitable and this is get as much on campus time as you can before the inevitable happens. Oh my I don't know that I want to put myself in the position of having to predict everything that you just asked me to Take a firm position on. I will tell you I will tell you though that we for the past six months as we have pivoted to all of the concerns that you've begun to raise that callers have raised about what it means to bring our students, faculty and staff back to campus. We believe that the measures, all the ones that were described the you all the ones that I've had a chance to describe to you today Are Measures that will counter the likelihood of an outbreak and that we will be watching it very closely because public health and safety is the number one priority for everything that we're doing and we believe that we can carry it out. So I hope that we maybe can have a conversation at the end of the semester and we can all say that all the things that we're doing actually wear successful. and. That's Kathy Spiegelman Vice President and chief chief of campus planning and development. Northeastern. Thank you, Kathy. Okay, you're welcome. Dr David Hammer professor of global health at Bu School of Public Health and School of Medicine and a member of the medical advisory group. Thank you so much for joining us again. My pleasure.
253: Dr. Jessika Jahnsen | Boston Smiles Dental
"Hey what's up guys welcome to episode two, Fifty, three of the dental marketer podcast. I'm your host Mike Audience and in this episode, we're talking with Dr Jessica Johnson and this is a very, very interesting episode Did you know if you're from another country and you've done your education a different country? There are still some states have you moved to America where you can still practice but in a community health center did you know that I didn't know that until I spoke with Jessica and she reveals a lot lot more. She's in the startup process right now. Where her practice isn't open yet, but she has a lot to say about the ups and downs of where she's at right now she she finally finalized everything signed everything and is now starting to she starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel where the practice will be open and she talks about day and things like that. When she plans to have him, we also talk about how you need to get a good a really, really good like probably one of the best advice she she wants to offer as you need a good real estate lawyer that has no relationship with your bank or broker, and she explained exactly why She's giving you this advice I thought that was really really interesting. We also talk about why and how she broke her contract with marketing agency. And something super interesting that I think all of you Nita, I think like listen to this and really really take note and analyze year website is. How using random photo can be found by the owner and now. Jessica is being harassed and threatened up for a lawsuit to be sued, and it's so interesting because it's not her fault it's the marketing agencies fought. So trust me win when you hear people say, Hey, don't you stock photos make sure every single photo you recognize as your photo, right? Like not of you but maybe your practice, your community something of yours, not just something you found online or a stock photo because. Man, that that can be a whole nother headache, a whole nother stress issue and Jessica talks much much more about that and what's happening. In her situation and the dilemma and so forth. So yeah. The guy's really quick. I, want to let you know before we get into it zirk dental products who they are sponsors now. So thank you zirk they're giving all of you free samples of the Mr Thirsty one step. So if you want and the samples are limited, so hurry up and join and get get the free samples. Right if you've heard of Zirk and you're like man, I've always been interested in some of their stuff. Go on the show notes below Click Zirk Low Gore desert link to find out more information and ask for the free samples you're going to click the link and you're gonNA see a video that Tina or holly there from Zirk they put together and they kind of explained it a little bit about the Mr Thirsty one step and how it's super awesome and amazing especially right now throughout this pandemic, how you can use it. And at the same time, you can scroll down and fill out the information and request samples. So guys go do that they're free it's all free. You don't have to get anything none of that stuff pay for anything. No. Ever been interested in zirk dental products or the Mr Thirsty one-step gone shown below click on the circle. Gor. Zurich linked to find out more information and just request a free sample. Awesome. So guys with that being said here is Dr Jessica Johnson. Jessica has it gone. Hi. How are you doing doing fine the so God lets you be here. I'm so happy to have you on the show. Really. Quick, Jessica if you don't mind me asking where you located. I'm located in Boston Massachusetts. So the way, your last name is spelled is kind of like the way everybody says they're right like, Janssen. INSTEAD OF S. Austin, your life or Now. I'm originally from Argentina. Emigrated to the US early two thousands in, you has been a long road to get to this stage in my life with the startup everything in my career. Okay. So let's jump into that. Tell us a little bit about your past your present. How'd you get to where you are today? Church? Yes. So I graduated in Argentina in city name And I decided to come to the US in pursuer fast In it wasn't any see pass but ag may through and. I attended after years attended Boston University where I graduated with the and then I decided to fulfill my dream to. Own, my own office. Previous to that I worked for Community Health Center. So for whoever is rem another country and has Ghandour encasing frank country and think that they can regret these. Yes you can't in some states in only in community health centers. So that's what I do for few years. Oh. Wow. So you came from Argentina and you're able to still practice in community health center in Boston. Yes. That's correct. Wow. So why did YOU PICK BOSTON? Boston to me is the city with lots of universities, braided Keisha, and and history. That's kind of like what's Jeremy into the way God Gotcha okay, and so if you don't mind me asking if we were wind a little bit more why? Why make the move from Argentina is like? My sister went the other day news like the other day but like I think in January new beautiful. So. Why make the move you make the move I list personnel, personnel, decision I was dating some whining at the time and got personal. That's basically why I decided to come. Okay. So that was in what year was that around. Two thousand one. So what I did, I went back and forth to Argentina for a while. And then after God I decided to start work. I worked as a dental assistant for staying. I found out about these myths about. Working. Asset Limited. License. In became true. They had breakfast for I would say eight years almost nine years in community health centers. Wow okay, and then when did you have the desire to start your own practice? Well I always did. Just as an immigrant I'm a single mom now it he's not that easy buddies not impossible. So I. After my divorce. Thousand Thirteen I decided. By bitter occasional, my daughter and you just heard. Unfortunately, as much as I probably health I needed to go to the private sector. And I decided to study for my words and apply. After my. Bus The university and I was so lucky that go to. My first shot. Why and that is really good. Okay. So then You got in you decided from that point on, you do your on startup right now we're in the process of your startup. So luckily started construction on Monday. So last, Monday who? Base ago. It guys scenes I would say, June, of two, thousand, nine teen I'm sorry. June of two thousand. Nineteen to be able to move forward with the indies process, it was a long way. Why? Why was it? So mom? Will. For those familiar with real eighty bucks on. It is very tough. Negotiations to almost eight months nine months. and. Then coffey hit in we were stuck in the process was just a sequence of movable actions. My. Day the lamb doors that. Are, doing the job with us. They're thirty killed our they wanted to know a lot of the bills about the about doing feel doubt they beat inaugural. Dan However, the lobbyist grows out they get financing. So it was a little. But I'm lucky we finally of construction. Yeah that's good. That's you just start. So rewind a little bit at least negotiation almost took nine months. So minus the pandemic rate, why did it take? So long. So I would say that. Hans we had at least five or six letter of intense or in Batam for. When I have my e original had an appointment to see place with dare broker I was from that I would be the only then that Boston is ever saturated market. In the area where I'm opening my office. Very Young He's getting a lot of attention many residential. In he's riding to CD. And they think I'm the only dentist in little area so I'm right now located in a medical building, which is not that big. My main priority was to be able to the the only dental provider in the building. So I was promised that that would happen among other things, but as we went through they literally intense. then. Over by the landlord change in. So we had to go back and forth in order to get. Some of what we were promised before. at the end. Is Not one hundred percent what I wanted. Emperor. Happy with what? She got so. What would have been hundred percent what you wanted? maybe a little bit more more of. A tenant. Allowance. A catch. And to be able to be exclusive in the whole building. And I think that would have helped me in that would have made me happier wait so you're not exclusively another dentist considered. A couple yards dumped me or no? So. I mean a building that has six floors in. Uh Right now, I'm exclusive on the first floor. And what my lease? States he's at and especially can come to the building. But a general dentist according to my landlord we dilemma was common, Talkin Sea getting to an agreement but I couldn't unfortunately these changing on the lease. Guest that's unfortunately in in Boston common in Boston you can come to a building and find five six days general dentists one when next week shoulder how man so that that might be a possibility of having like another practice there. So then how did you find this location? Well did some demographic studies? In the area I had three or four areas in mind and with the help of A. Marketing company I don't ask me that he was taking. Can't remember. But. They did help me to do that demographic analysis of the area and these was very good. That was very interesting in this particular neighborhood of. Awesome. Awesome. Okay. So then who did your demographic studies? Cody I, Jason, Jason Swiffer I cannot remember the name of the company, but I can send you the details by email wants. Gosh. Okay. So Jesus you looked at this was this the first location you're like I'm sold I wanted to buy here. I WANNA be forever or you're. Know originally I run it in a in an area called. South. End, which is where he wasn't is very small a city. Where I live is very neighborhood stealing a I wanted to be there But I'm fortunately there were too many dentists for the demographics in also it was almost impossible to find real hitting the area that would accommodate a dentist. Memory yeah, especially if it's Like right now, you're the only dentist in that area from like a what type like a one mile radius or how many lanes and I would say point six LA. Okay Yeah. But in that area right now in the ability, you're the only one. So that's Yes. If you're asking. What was your tenant allowance like? Oh He's very no seven thousand dollars very low and there is a why is no easy 'cause we hustle a lot about the rent amount different price. Index way we negotiated either we get higher allowance or we get a lower. Rent and also my. It is very high and he's not Bryson for Boston I did. Not Know all the these things about commercial real estate Antonioli. Basically. At consulted with real estate agent before that I the commercial real estate with work exactly the same as residential bus. Now, what's the difference like What are some major differences where you're like Oh, my Gosh I wish I would've known this. Basically Dad. The tenant is a wrongful. His portion of taxes, a bill in taxes, cleaning services for the building What else Called the triple net in any older expensive at the landlord. House. I didn't know days usually half with their end. So the version of what you pay for rent. But is it sometimes like so for example, if he's in charge of the cleaning and all that stuff the that's you you're the one who's in charge of the claiming. No No. They allowed their hires our company, and if if something breaks then you. Say Taxes we to our Bush at it is what it is. Unfortunately that's how. Real estate works at least in Boston. Route. So then if something breaks, can you repeat that again if something breaks Yes. In a in that's another another reason why we negotiated for. So long the details on the lease regarding triple net where very interesting, and so we fought a law widened will say why we would Fay in surrender or the building where I am he may Okcupid by a hospital. And Bad. We were into question. What happens? Most providers of these folks because or the entire host because besides sleep, what happened to us would be now facing a most of their real estate taxes for these building and most of the maintenance of the building. So these details we went back and forth a lot with with the landlord I really recommend to have a good real estate lawyer and Many. My not agree with what I'm going to say but if you can get your own real estate lawyer that has nothing with experiencing Dow and that has no relationship with your bank. With your broker completely. Independent, I think that's the base because. The only person who's going to fight for you at the end is your be El-Sayed. A lawyer true. Is Yours like that? You have one Jeff. Yes. Yes. How'd you find that? Ler. Through a couple of friends who are also in the same process of building your stars. Catch. Do you want me asking what's his like Nemer Business? Oh Russell and he's located in in Massachusetts. I never met the cry. We conducted our business by email or phone calls that I am very happy with his services but he did like he did is due diligence like he did his job and everything. Exactly end. He was very reasonable. Price considering order, lawyer. Gotcha. So then you guys can to an agreement with your. With everything right like your Taas and then at the same time, the rent that you're going to be paying and so forth. Run. Now assuming like you're open tomorrow do you did you negotiate by any chance like free rent for the first month or three months? Six months? With they negotiated the first four months of of rent. For months and then we have extra forty five days to. Apply for our. Construction. Permit. You got you. Okay and right now the construction company that you're with. You pick them or ECHO. And Henry Shine helped me. With, this election of the construction company, they threw a couple of names. Yes friends who around who recently completed their startups in Boston, and I'm so happy to have higher these construction Bernie. He eats not the cheapest idol. But I can tell you that he's been with me since the first day. There are many times that I almost abandoned the project that because of all the frustration and the lack of easy negotiations, but he was there he way. Way beyond well, what he had to do in order to help us. What was the name of that company? What is the square construction? He's name is Edward Copeland. Wow okay. So wait rewind a little bit. You almost abandoned the startup idea why? Yes because the lease negotiations were very, very stressful. Landlord wouldn't give up. and. Even when when they landlord agree to me exclusive bitterly. As said the only dentist? Into building. Down on paper everything would change. So I am I that I do dentistry. I had a business before going back to school. Not Related Dentistry, but unfortunately, I lack of business management knowledge and I do know how to read lease or legal terms and I think my current. Partner in is a key works In the for the government and he understands the language, the legal language and my lawyer they are the ones who advice me. Through a niece crosses. Now so I mean, 'cause that's a that's a big thing like that talks about someone's. I guess integrity. But like the way they are like if they agree with you like, yeah. Yeah, we'll give you a city. We'll give you all this but then on paper it's like. A never mind you know what I mean. They never tell you number. Tell you exactly exactly into these day Dan you'll last week we were negotiating because. The land wanted to know what? Banks will use for my for my walls like what do you? Why is this? Your very sign a lease. Wow. Yes. So on the road like with him, not agreeing with the way you're running your practice. No I think I think we sat down we talked a lot that both parts were completely i. Come to an agreement and I think we both are tired of Maaco she ate and for so long that. I hope. We are now. Understanding each other and everything moves forward. I do not deny that I still have a minor fear back on my mind at thinking What if these changes but I don't think anything can change drastically your conservative crosses drastically again Okay. So let's run a little bit and the loan that you took out for this What do you guys? Did you go to Bank of America in I would not regret not even one minute. So leave my agent and my broker they have theme with me again, they hold roses. Okay. So you would go at Bank of America again or yes I would yes. Okay. So they've been really really good with you guys very good considering that I do not own any assets in this country I don't have an inheritance and I don't have large amounts of savings in all I do is being a dentist and I work fulltime. They really trusted me. The I working with they gave me enough. For my built in. So firings working well. This, really, really okay and then if you'd mind me asking how much. Was Or is your build out. Five, hundred, twenty, seven, thousand. Got You. Okay. So Do you feel right now everything is going to be allocated properly or are you. I do. The Greater. The greatest amount of allocation east for the construction, which is two, hundred, forty, six, thousand. And Daddy's with the margin of error included. I have construction in Boston also, outrageously expensive. And I tr- budgeted in other areas. But I did not want to jober is my construction knife already heard horror stories about. Instructional and the. Appropriate announce for construction workers going to work or. Being delayed. So I wanted to make sure that was you meet the right company. Notch Okay and then where did you feel like you're cutting corners in the budget right now? equipment. Basically. They basically brand of my shares maybe the brand new arrangements believe it or not I went to Ebay could try to see to buy some stuff that is already that is used for gently used. What else up just deny had my equipment. quoted by Henry Shine and I went to a company to Banco to match the quote they gave me very away lower quotes and I wouldn't have to shine and they they lowered the the quote. So I saved loads of money going that. Is. That's a you got an original from them with somebody else that you went back like like able to give it to me for. Correctly, what wasn't easy but you gotta try and the other thing is that the city of fulsome helps locked in minority. Business owners and basically they coached me a lot during the process. And they also give you a help to build Your Business and escapes. They're the ones who designed they contracted. Very. Good Company, in Boston to design my logo into the sign, my signs in died. So I save money on that as well. Two hundred. That's really good. Really Really Nice I. Liked it a lot. Okay. So then that's what you're doing for that. Do you have a marketing budget allocated for? Marketing. To be honest with you know. I don't have any like certain amount I know it's limited. because. So how expensive my construction right now? But so that I had a nightmare of Mike Marketing as well. Unfortunately. But I think right now I am with the right company. Gotcha okay. So who are you going to go with for? Like you know your website, your logo design that stuff like designing and so. Yes. So if you want me to share my for like a minute of my story about the website I think. It will help. Some people who are maybe on shore overstay making some decisions. So I wanted to connect with a freelancer I've consulted with few marketing companies who web designing. I I saw I've seen beautiful websites but unfortunately, they were they were out of my budget. And decided to connect with locals freelancer I both. Groups looking forward would be saying you're. Somebody came to me. And told me her husband. It would do the the work for me that they were he embossed on. It now is happy to make the sun i. they gave me a reasonable quote. I Bay. or IT A. At Yang wage with gold out and did it myself. You did it yourself? I be my works in myself and he now we can. What what was the quote that they were GonNa give you. The quotas had beliefs twenty, five hundred, which is not expensive at all. But what happened is that the? I used somebody local who would understand the Boston market especially, my neighborhood, which is demographically inhabited headed by young professionals. the first on US He's associates in India. and. They wanted to build a website in according to how they wanted to see. In. It was a little back and forth we didn't agree in at the I. Would ing. They wouldn't agree with what I wanted. In I decided to break a contract with them. So what what did you want on the website that the didn't agree with? Short. So the idea of why I want to transmit with my website he's out my office is very small office. And Reflects relaxation is a boutique dental offices where I'm going to have kindles where patients can feel that they are at home. And so basically, I have a photo. On my way which reflects. How I wanted to seal and when the person who's building your website doesn't agree with. A changes always what side to their the to their win. Without your consent, I don't think I. Don't think they are respecting what you want in. That can be very long-term. Yeah, so then you're able to. How did you do that? How did you make your site in a weekly use? Go Daddy right like the for the hosting then like wordpress or squarespace. Now Basically, hall Go Daddy has amazing templates. You just have to go around the little bit and say with it. A little bit I got everything I wanted to leave. Me Even wanted a pop up window somebody up my website announcing a promotion. Or a special I off that at and. You visit my website. I know it's not the as most. Professional what's but it has everything. What I wanted, we are still working in some details especially, the SEO luckily, I found somebody who's helping me. With that right now and so far as going well. God You got you. Okay. That's good. That's really really good and then right now Jessica. Let's just say it's like day three or four of the day that you're open. And like I'm walking out. In. Your mind. What do you want me to say about your practice? Like how do you envision? Your patients walking out and talking about your practice what are they saying? Wow. What a different experience idea feel Rash ibn field fresh short to. Bay For trainers that I don't editing meek and I'm happy to comeback. Refurbishes. For patients. that. Everybody IDA everybody wants. So what's your mission statement and? Yes. They do actually more than a mission statement. I have a very single A line of my website that represents a practice, which is a stress free and relaxing Denzel experience. So then right now, how many ops do you have? That task fire of my boss. because. It was sort of. So I only have rumored three. Yes I will start working to off say I was evading to purchasing equipment for the third that I think I will wait till. So, do you envision this of like a very very? Exclusive experience of like a boutique type of feel. Yes I do. Yeah. And then do you plan to have take insurance all injuries or just PPO insurance this for now all insurances. many minor would agree with me but I come from an area where I practice public health were many years. And I understand the need. Then I'll treatment patients in I also see that. In Dentistry, where would kind of like separating sometimes from our our mission, which is to provide dental treatment, and then they'll care for for patients. So I do believe got. Basing need they still have the right to come to the office. So I I am going to seal insurances maybe I'm not saying no, but maybe in a year or two I will have to ruggles some insurances and not because I don't want to Beijing is just as I think they insurance industry needs countries I was on fair. and. You also have to remember that you operate the business. and. You have to baby girls. So it's GonNa. Be It's GONNA. Be Really interesting like accepting you also planning to like Medicare Medicaid and all that stuff too. So we do have the insurance which is called mass killed. Massachusetts is. Very good insurance for children. They pay good fees on asked me to fees right now when I know that they pay more than those other than so. In bad. For a dog he's not as great and also you phase and no shows a very high rate of no shows. So I'm still deciding if I'm going to take adult to now but I will definitely take yet visions. Not, you can. It's going to be really good. So then so far throughout this process I, know we've talked about a lot of ups and downs a lot of like headaches specially with your. Landlord but if you can recall. And really listeners listening. Like what's been so far since the moment you decided to start to now. What's been some of your biggest struggles or fails re pitfalls? More. Than struggles I fear that wouldn't get along. And they? When the troubles with the least negotiation? Gosh and the fear for not getting the loan was because because I because I don't have enough acid saying, I saw day would ask you to have. Certain amount of money in your bank accounts or own some property or maybe need at cosigner. But Luckily, no, I did not need any of that in I. Feel Skating. Gotcha. So if you don't mind me asking how much in total have you still have student loans plus this? Oh I got. A Lot I probably have three, hundred, thousand dollars left in student. So six hundred you almost have like. Almost, a million, right? Exactly. Yes. Assuming like you haven't bought a house or anything like that almost exactly Yep. Okay okay. We'll begin there. So then. Right, now, what's been some of the best companies you've worked with so far, and then some of the companies were you're like. kind of suck I don't like them. Any might recommend. You run names you specific knicks maybe would be best. Yeah. Okay. So, best companies I would say see square construction with Edward Koppelman. An old still at Bank of America for whoever is. Planning to get a loan in Boston, I would highly recommend Bryant Altman is amazing. And my lawyer Call Russell. Not so good definitely on that lays comes Brian Brea krantz with cheese a company that did they erects. Nine I'm feel like now debating. I guess. Now Recap relating when you ask me why is one of the struggles that you have? That you had during the up. Well, I don't know if he's going to be a struggle yet. I hope not. But unfortunately, the website Nick the company who is wearing my previous website. A put live or their version for one week and during that week Use folder that it they did not have rights on. In the owner of the photograph, the photographer contacted me complain planning to sue this company. Wow. Harassing me. So that's still harassing you. Why is it download the photos down? L.. It didn't last night in one week. Oh, and he's still harassing you about it. Yes. On threatening me shed I'm not afraid of their threats baddies just is talking he's writer. Crush fridge urging teen in. But still you know what I mean like yes, it's. It's It's like an added stress that you're like, I, never needed this I don't know. So, then throughout this whole Process Jessica System you like sign right. This is the moment you started this whole process from now. How. Has It affected your personal life? It's you've I, think at least negotiations affected my personal life and not just my personal life but my couples life basically because when the person who's helping you raise your partner. You cannot avoid. Conversations about what's going on with the lease and During your personal time in making that added a little stress to our nation. Luckily, we were able to overpass not. Now we are fine but I think it affected. that far lot. A other than that I wouldn't say that it affected. Anymore. How did you guys overcome like? What do you mean you ever came? Is more the sense of like man like every night we're talking about the business like stop it or yes exactly and. I'm optimistic I always see good people I would give a thick on chance and I believe in Yangyang. My boyfriend is really sick person and he believes seem black and white, and he comes from a background where regulations are there for a recent. And there is no way around and you always have to got. About. A song or Halley negotiation that you're doing. So always tried to find what he's. Right so be there with a plan B. I don't have that unfortunately, I have to learn. The mosaic is were not would not be there for business. We waited for thirty for business dental school. Lame. We were told about breakfast mentioned not. True you're like a lot of times and I think that's a good thing in a bad thing because sometimes I think it's good to. Be like this is it and I don't know how I'm GonNa find a way but I'm gonNA find a way and also a bad thing because it's like you live and die with it you know what I mean I Could have been a plan B that reduced like sometimes. In the moments or in the years even you feel like this is all I've ever wanted but then years years down the road you kind of like. This is not alive. Wanted there was you know what I mean there's different that could have gone many ways. Yes. Exactly. So I don't know it just depends. It just depends but that's interesting. That's really good. How did you guys overcome that though Kim just basically because the least with. The when the lease was that we were like, okay, it's done. We can not find any more about these leaks. So it was more. It was more the lease negotiation like what was what was stressing you out right basically. Almost fifty five pages. How. Lengthy in like legal term that I have no clue what they mean he's not just the simple meaning of one word is. The way words are construction showed there and what they mean illegal turns. On at least which I don't know I mean especially because I have. been. Because I have English as my second language. I am not a lawyer so it was. Very, hard you're seeing. But Luckily, we we worked it out. We understood what we were getting to in. So far as Yeah I. Know What you mean sometimes like I, there's words that are understand in something like can agreement or something and I'll google or look it up in the dictionary I'm like, why didn't they just say that one easy. This whole difficult thing I don't get it anyway just see if you don't mind this asking what's going to be the name of your practice. Boss on smiles. Some Boston smiles and for our listeners listening and they have any questions or concerns or Check you out. See more about your startup process and everything like that. Where can they find you? Yes, you can give me Ecole. Or you can send you an email like in my email. The e the N. T.. Or three one one at g mail DOT, com. D. N. T. four zero, one jimoh dot com, and guys that's going to be in the show notes below. So you reach out to her asking me questions or concerns feel free to do that and Jessica. Thank you so much for being with us. It was a pleasure we'll hear from you soon. Thank you so much for having me with Me Hate, really quick I wanNA remind you that you get free samples of the Mr Thirsty one step don't miss out, and if you've ever been interested in Zirk or any other dental products, go request a free sample and I guarantee you guys, you're GONNA love the Mr thirsty step just Google Google how easy and awesome ineffective Mr Thirsty one step is. And you guys will love it but don't take my word for it. Just go get the free samples going to show notes below and requests for a free sample. Our guys I talked to in the next episode.
1125 Paul Caselle DDS on Lasers, CAD-CAM and Orthodontics : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
"It's just a huge honor. For me today to be podcast it everything. Dr Paul Cassell who completed his undergraduate studies in biology at Boston University college of arts and sciences, then went onto New York University college dentistry to attain his DDS degree after graduation, Dr castle completed a residency programme in family dentistry at foresight that'll center in Boston. He opened his dental office. Practice in Wilmington, Massachusetts and has provided the community with family Oranje dental care for forty two years dodger castle has fellowship certification in the world clinical laser institute. Invis- lined six months smile, he is on the biologics core. Trading. Faculty and has presented seminars to other Dennis on such topics as Syriac technology laser dentistry orthodontics for general dentists and practice management is written several articles which have been published in leading publications Dr castle is a graduate of the Serono speakers academy and a member of the ADA the Massachusetts dental Sidey Middlesex district -ociety and try counting dental study club is also. The member of Wilmington chamber of commerce Toastmasters international devils figures bureau, national speakers, my gosh, I've been a big fan of yours on dental town. You're one of the first one hundred Dennis on dental town. And now you have three thousand three hundred seven posts. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. How are you doing Paul? I pleasure. My pleasure. So so let's what what I'm John deal. These podcast looking at the data. It looks like twenty five percent dental school everyone else's under thirty. Email me Howard dental town dot com. Tell me who you are. Why do you like to show? What do you want more of or leave the comments in the YouTube channel? But basically Paul there what my show is trying to do is they're they're coming out of dental school. They got three to four hundred thousand dollars in debt, and they're trying to find their way. And they look at someone like us when crushed in Boston for forty two years and say, here's this think question, Paul, I got four hundred thousand debt, I just graduated. How do I grow up and be a dentist like you someday? Well, that's one of these why I'm really interested in helping young Dennis kind of sort that out. You know, Dennis go to dental school. They learn how to do dentistry, and they come out and very often they have to work in an office refused just to kind of hone dental skills. And after a few years, they they realized that I want to open a practice. I want to eater by a practice and opened a practice from scratch. I think really it's hard to find a good quality practice to buy. And so it's something they they just have to figure out. I mean, you have to kind of live within your means come up with a budget, and look and see, you know, one of my opportunities out in the marketplace trying to stat a scratch practice. I think it's very difficult especially in the Boston area because a lot of competition. So that's that's really something to have to look at. And I've talked to some young Denison never ready to take the plunge somehow they manage it. To meet their obligations, but also try to make a living in buying a practice. And I think that's really the way to go a lot a young dentist. So Massachusetts has two dental schools Boston University and tufts they actually have three what's the third one? You have while you have Harvard and you have tufts and you have a Boston University. Of course, we have three dental schools in the area one of their class sizes. Well, I think harvest the smallest I'm not sure on the class size. But I think you know, tough probably has around a couple of hundred maybe more you have a few more in Boston University, probably around nine hundred some odd students there. So you have a lot of people coming out, and you know, it's difficult a lot of docs, go to corporate to kind of hone your skill and try to figure out who they are what they wanna do. And I I did a lecture recently and had some young Dennis come up, and you know, they really at a loss. They really don't know too much about business. Because they don't teach business and dental school. They know very little about the deal dental business never mind, even running a business. And so they very often don't really know what they don't know. They, you know, they get at the practice, and they realize boy, it's a lot more expensive than I thought it was, and it's a lot more work than I thought it was they don't realize we dentist kind of wear many hats in the course of a day where that's in charge of marketing and sales and HR or IT or is a lot of different things you have to do and running an office. So I think that's overwhelming for dentists. And so I see my role. My point my career right now is is trying to lecture dis lecture to the dental student the hone down in have them understand the business concepts that they need to have going forward to be profitable. Because they come in. They have no concept of expenses. They have no concept of what how to manage business. And so I see. Myself coming on board, and and trying to educate them in how the run a business and how they look at the bottom line how the run a profit and loss statement, and really, you know, run their business based on what they're doing income wise, and you know, I've always lived in a query him. So, you know, everything I did write everything I did wrong. I always liked living aquarium because you got so many towns like you to tell me. Hey, our that is absolutely wrong or hey, try this. It's really it's really helps when you post dental town a lot of Dennis Email me a question. Like, why why do you want my opinion? You're in Boston. Why don't you post on dental town? And maybe there's more local information. There's other experts for what I did. If you look at my darkest secrets my dental offices thirty one years old, but my management team. They're all been there twenty years. So I spent eleven years.
Reflecting On 9/11 In The Face Of Another National Crisis
"Tomorrow marks the nineteen th anniversary of the September eleventh attacks and we're going to play some sound for you from that day and as a warning although I don't think you'll be surprised that sound is hard to listen to on the morning of September eleventh two thousand one on ABC's Good Morning America host, Charlie Gibson, and Diane Sawyer. We're getting report of what was happening at the World Trade Center. As fire crews sending on this area. It does not appear that there's any kind of an effort up there. Yeah. Remember Oh my God. That looks like a second. Plane. Just exploded I. Just saw another plane coming in from the side. And then their reaction followed reflects how the nation was feeling that day Oh. This is. Terrifying. Awful. Watch powerless. Is a horror. That day that tragedy was incomprehensible and I don't know about you. But I find that sound in this moment very difficult to listen to now nineteen years. Later, we are facing another national crisis pandemic that has caused. Almost two hundred, thousand deaths in the United States and we find ourselves thinking about each tragedy in the context of the other, and we wanted to have a conversation about that. Then joining us to do that is just the Right Person Mitch Zubov Professor Narrative Studies at Boston University and author of fall and rise the story of nine eleven. Welcome back to Radio, Boston Mitch. Linkages, Hannah. And listeners. We invite your calls to how are you reflecting on this nineteenth anniversary of September eleventh in the midst of another national crisis. What is? Similar or different about these two crises in our responses to them, especially as we near two hundred, thousand deaths nationally from covid nineteen. Is it hard to conceptualize those deaths in a way that the losses on the September eleventh felt so immediate, you can call us at eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, five, five that's one eight, hundred, four to three talk or you can tweet us on this one at Radio Boston. So much I just want to start with what is on your mind as tomorrow's anniversary approaches. I think like everyone We're in this sort of this as you described this incredible new crisis that that sort of. Unfolding more slowly but just as all consuming as nine eleven was for those of us who experienced. as others have pointed out, you know we're we're experiencing now nine eleven level tragedy every three days with three thousand deaths every three days in in this covert crisis, and so I'm thinking I. Think is you are, and I think a lot of people are What is this going to mean for the national character? What does it mean for who we are as people who we are as a community who we are as a? Country and I think sadly, tragically, even I think we have to conclude that we're a much different people were reacting differently at least than we did in the immediate aftermath of nine eleven so much I want to ask about that because of course, there must be something in that. That's true. But at the same time, how do we get our minds around the slow moving crisis and tragedy were in now? There was something so. Profound, an immediate and shocking and unexpected about that day. This is just different in aren't we aren't we built. So that, we would process these things differently. I, think that's that's exactly what's happening that we would and it's it's really great and powerful Good Morning America in the lead in here we all witnessed it. We were all witnesses to what was happening and it was on an endless loop in our is in our years in the immediate aftermath, and so we could it almost sort of programmed as humans to have this fight or flight response, and we knew what we were supposed to do because we could see it in front. Of Us when you have in as as the president likes to say an invisible enemy a like the virus that unfold slowly that doesn't You know doesn't have frames in the sky We are not quite sure how to react to it even though I think intellectually, we can understand that these are both existential threats but they take different forums so we are reacting differently. And listeners were talking to Mitch's Gov professor. Narrative Studies at Boston University about the anniversary of September Eleventh, which is tomorrow and how we process that in the context of another national crisis. If you'd like to share your reflections, you can join us at eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five, eight, hundred, four to three talk. Mitch. I know you have remarked on the unity of two, thousand one and the disunity of this moment can you talk a little bit about that? Sure. You think about it I in terms of just the of the absence of partisanship after nine eleven. On September Fourteenth Congress, voted I the Senate voted ninety eight to nothing and then the house, voted four hundred and twenty, two, one out with one Opponent to basically give. George Bush and the Republican in power. UNENDING? To unending authority to do whatever was needed to to hunt down the people who are responsible for this and Barbara Lee the one who who objected a California California congresswoman was just worried about the blind check idea which obviously proved prescient in terms of what happened in Iraq but essentially, everyone was behind this everyone sort of lined up and said this. Is No time for us to point fingers at whether the Republicans in power had kept a safe or whether it was an intelligence failure or what have you everyone came together I think and I think I think those of us who lived through it experienced it, and so there was this moment of national unity and more than a moment it lasted a while. I think we all know that we have not seen a moment of national unity here. We've seen a tremendous disunity disagreements over the science disagreements over whether a mask wearing a mask was a an act of partisan you know Approval for one side or the other, and so I think that has been an incredibly stark difference and frankly for someone who's studied nine eleven and his living through COVID deeply disappointing. Mitch I'd love to go to the phones here eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five we have lauren line from Somerville so are you reflecting Lauren? I am thanks for taking my call I'm I'm really I'm finding this at. Instance and you've been using the end I was eleven years old, and I could just started a new pool and. We were all kind of hurted into a cafeteria and we had that air of not knowing what was going on being excited and We didn't know what was going on. We thought it was like bad but we were in it together and it was unknown and it was kind of like maybe exciting, and then later we learned from our parents just how bad it what and now being a mental health professional as an adult. Being pandemic and seeing these. Out like, where've all my friends corn and what is happening right now it's fascinating to be in a generational. Trauma. as it were seems to be at. Thanks for that Lauren and Mitch. I heard you went when Lawrence said now an adult and a mental health professional. I heard you respond to that. So maybe I can let you react there. Well I think Lawrence really onto something in terms of the idea that when we experienced nine eleven, we were able to do it as as hurt at you know in in the sense we gathered together we huddled together whether it was in classrooms or in our offices or in our homes and we were all connected in that way We we're all experiencing together even if it was via media but now we're we're incredibly disconnected by design obviously to to prevent the virus from spreading further but I think that there's a feeling of isolation as this is happening and I think is a mental health professional lauren is is sort of. Endure a really interesting job of linking those two in terms of how we as humans are reacting differently to these two events. Like to bring another caller in here Mitch we have Andrew Line from West Roxbury Andrew go ahead. Hi thank you for taking my call. I. Just had a question about what Mitch thought about the. Impact that this. I guess we can call it prolonged mass casualty incident like cove nineteen lasting multiple. has had versus a singular mass casualty incident like nine eleven. Thanks for that Andrew, Mitch? What are you thinking? It's a great question Andrew I. I think it remains to be seen frankly Just, how deeply it cuts I because frankly I would have fought two, hundred thousand deaths or whatever the number is. would make it clear to everyone just how we are all affected by this, but it does seem to be. A disjointed effect where we all could identify with the three thousand dead in nine eleven and for some reason by a factor of almost seventy seventy times as many. People we are not So I think it would be premature for me to say how it's going to affect us long term but it's it. You Know Mitch I remember early on in covering the pandemic we did a segment where we were getting calls from all over the place by people who were benefiting from or port participating in mutual aid societies neighbors coming together to help neighbors to support each other We haven't done another segment on that so I don't know if we would still be getting those calls now but there was I think a sense that we were in this together and had solidarity, and we're going to need to solve problems together. Do you think we've lost that in the arc of these last six to eight months depending on where you as an individual count the beginning? You know I I I'm an optimist by nature and I. We all remember in the beginning of this. Just what you're talking about the mutual aid I thought there was a real parallel between the immediate aftermath of nine eleven. You could not go near a fire station in new. York without sort of encountering people delivering cakes and and coming to say thank you to the firefighters and we experienced that here with the Cova crisis where we had the seven PM people leaning out their windows to thank the healthcare workers into claps for them as they change shifts. And yet now I do feel that has started to go away people have started to to move back into their own. Lives and their own concerns. So I I fear that we are losing it a bit I'm afraid. I'm sorry I had five thoughts crashed into my head. And listening to you because there's so much here I. I. Think the first one that I will come out is the fact that there was something about. The attack on September eleventh that we understood as an attack on our union. Early on in the experience of the virus and I think maybe even arguably today we have very much philosophy that this was happening to states and individuals in states and I mean I remember Governor Baker frustration in those early press conferences trying to get P P and asking the federal government to help. Did that state by state problem solving. The end the need to do state-by-state problem solving an emphasis on it change our sense of Sarah shared experiences well. Absolutely absolutely as soon as we were sort of divided into states that there were there were blue states and red states and there were hotspots and other. As soon as that happened it gave the virus of footing. It's almost like it. It was sort of serving the enemy after nine eleven we understood the the the face of this enemy and we I mean by nine thirty that morning the CIA understood this was all Qaeda and we all collectively understood it was an attack on all of. Those in east coast event even though. I mean you talk to anyone across this country people felt as deeply personal about it as anyone you know as as you can imagine, but you're right as soon as there was in, let's face it. It happened from Washington It was this feeling that governors had to figure it out on their own were you know how to ask Bob Kraft to get to to get Chinese? PP. To get enough you know ninety five or ninety five that's the owner of the New England patriots who used their jet just take for our listeners go ahead. Yeah. We people were you know governors are talking about competing against other governors I mean the idea of that that they were having to compete with other governors whether it was ventilators or p. p. or what have you that immediately made it every man or every woman for herself and that. Completely, undermined any possibility of a sort of a national response to this crisis. So I'm just going to bring in one more voice we got a tweet from Katie. Garden. Katie I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly saying I'm not trying to be flippant but in light of all were doing through going through now nine eleven seems quaint. It's amazing how desensitized we are now to the staggering loss of life. What are the rituals or approaches admits we've got only a couple of minutes That we can be using to share this sense of weight and experience with each other. We've talked a lot about the disconnect how how can we reconnect? I think is part of the job. I understand I don't I don't take eighties communists flipped I think it's true. It's this sort of the concept of you know you've oil of Frog if you throw it in hot water, which is what happened the nine eleven it jumps out because it reacts with this slowly boiling was slow boiling. We've all. Experienced, it's normalizing or it's conditioning us to this I. Think it's our job in the media to do a better job do more of what we're doing initially telling the stories of the losses of highlighting how many you know how the Webs of family are being unwound as each empty person empty seated every dinner table we have to drive that home and we have to connect everyone to the idea that two hundred thousand dead is not a number and it is you know it is it is two hundred, thousand times, hundred tragedies of every person who those lives touch. Mitch I really appreciate it. That's Mich Zu professor in Narrative Studies at Boston University and author of fall and rise the story of nine eleven. Thank you so much. Mitch. Thank you.
Tracking those $1,200 checks
"How to track the twelve hundred dollars? That's supposed to be heading toward many. I'm David Brancaccio. Good morning the. Irs says it has started distributing emergency aid payments twelve hundred dollars per person as part of the federal government's effort to take some economic pressure off individuals in this pandemic marketplace's Kimberly Adams joins us with details. Really not everyone is getting paid it once. Who's getting paid? I according to the IRS people who filed taxes in the past two years and who used direct deposit for their refunds will be the first to get the payments so that twelve hundred dollars per person you mentioned applies to people who are US citizens or residents and who make less than ninety nine thousand dollars per year for individuals. What about timing for people who don't have direct deposit or are maybe on social security and didn't file taxes recently right who never gave the? Irs THEIR BANK. Information may have to wait weeks if not months to get those payments. And you're right people who didn't file it all in two thousand eighteen or twenty nine thousand nine. We'll have to wait as well. The IRS is leading non filers register online so they can get their payments and it's expected to have a similar tool for people who never shared their bank account info later this week later this week. Another is a published report that a certain group of people who have filed in the past may still face some delays right. The Financial Times is reporting that some taxpayers who used so called Refund. Transfer services may face additional delays. Those services allow people to use their refunds to pay for preparation and filing services. But it means they're refund goes through a third party before it gets to them now. Some consumer advocates are warning. This will cause additional delays for low income. Filers Okay Kimberley thank you Saudi Arabia. Russia Mexico and other oil producers forged a deal over the weekend to cut oil production by about ten percent is a lot. It was a hard-fought battle but analysts say may not move prices. Much amid the plummeting demand in this covert economy. Crude is up one percent now. The Dow Futures Down Three hundred eight points one point three percent. One of the biggest meat processing facilities in the country is closing down until further. Notice this after two hundred ninety three workers at smithfield Foods Sioux Falls South Dakota plant tested positive for the virus over the weekend. The of South Dakota and the Sioux falls mayor had called for the plant to shut down the CEO of smithfield foods. Kenneth Sullivan said disclosure and others around the country has pushed the country quote. Perilously close to the edge in terms of meat supply. Some public health advocates are calling for limits or bans on the sale of tobacco products. Some experts see evidence that Cova cases can be worse than people who smoke or vape. Marketplace's Jack Stewart has more one. Early scientific study indicates that covert nineteen patients in China. Were more than twice as likely to get severe infections if they were smokers. Smoking also means repeatedly bringing your hands to your mouth when we're all being cautioned not to touch our faces now. The New York State Academy of Family Physicians as called for a ban on sales of tobacco e cigarettes during the pandemic and the International Union against Isis and lung disease has increased. Its push for an end to sales doggone. Joanne is from the Union. This is really the best time for governments to take action to force the tobacco industry to stop setting tobacco in their countries around thirty four million people in the US smoke cigarettes. Dr Michael Siegel at the Boston University School of Public Health agrees that quitting smoking and vaping. We'll have positive health benefits but says a ban could have unwanted consequences. You really do have the danger of a black market developing you know to me. That is the main obstacle to prohibition honestly not the economic consequences to the tobacco companies. The National Association of tobacco outlets didn't have comment at this time. I'M JACKIE STEWART FOR MARKETPLACE. And in this environment of prepping some are also buying firearms for the. First Time. Jonathan Levinson reports for the public media. Journalism project called guns in America. Many gun stores across. The country aren't affected by stay at home orders that are forcing some to close shop in. Oregon. They're open for business at the gun room in southeast Portland Owner Sean. Cast says on a recent weekend people were buying so many guns. The Oregon State police background check system couldn't keep up to the whole state with slammed at one point. When Corona virus fears started to set in? It was taking up to two hours for a background. Check to purchase. A gun normally takes about ten minutes. Since February first. The Oregon State police reported a forty three percent increase in background checks over the same time last year. Nationwide background checks in March. Were up forty one percent according to the FBI. What are people afraid of everything? They're buying guns and ammunition so they can go home and sit on their couch and they can defend their stash of toilet paper from the pending apocalypse out in front of the gun room. Tammy is one of the many first-time gun buyers. She says. She bought a taser. Some Mace and I purchased a gun a Smith and Wesson revolver. Thirty eight special. Tammy DIDN'T WANNA use her last name. She's a nurse a single mom. She bought her first hand gun because she says she's afraid of how people are going to react in the coming weeks. Tammy SAYS LOVING. Each other is important in crises like this but there are members of the society that that's not the direction they go some gun. Experts though are more concerned about mental health and domestic violence while people are stuck at home shelter in place maybe the best way to prevent the spread of the corona virus. But it's not the safest option for women are in Abusive Relationships Says University of Pennsylvania Professor Susan Sorenson and it's technically not a safe option for women who are being abused by someone who has a gun. Sorenson also says having a gun in the home increases the risk of suicide because we know a lot of suicides are impulsive there done in a moment of despondency despair and she says the risk of suicide is highest in the first six weeks after somebody purchases a gun in Portland Oregon. I'm Jonathan Levinson for marketplace and starting today Amazon says it is stopped taking new grocery delivery customers and putting those who try onto a wait list. I'm David Brancaccio with the marketplace morning report from a American public media.
Tall Stories 151: the Otto-Wagner Hospital
"The. Hello. I'm been rather than sitting in for Andrew tuck this week. And you're listening to stories on one twenty four brought to you by the team behind the urban est. The show all about the cities. We live in auto Wagner was a giant of twentieth. Century Australian architecture, and he's buildings and infrastructure projects in Vienna. Still very much in use. This includes a hospital for the mentally disabled that he built in the western part of the city the Steinhof hospital that are known simply as the auto Wagner hospital after more than a century of service. The hospital is now do you to vacate the premises to make way for apartments and university? Monaco's Alexei Corey low brings us this toll story. We're being forced out of a country. That's been our our home for twenty six years and accordingly from the first of September twenty nineteen see will offer all of its US accredited degree programs in Vienna. That was Michael agnosio retro the central European investing Budapest speaking at a news conference a couple of months ago, we cannot operate legally in Hungary as a free US accredited institution. But what is bad news for Budapest is arguably good news for Vienna? Although it's not without its complications. We're talking about hundreds of students and staff plus the library. Plastic -ment is launching of site and the string Capito to comb NATO. This these Wien don't ever see date Annan's bid Salen standard for logging Solta Wagner. Are- I of minimum civility this is galahad hits from the government. He says they've got just the right place the auto Wagner hospital. He's clearly from the complexity it was sonorous. You haven't didn't think much shoots. They're paying me mopey. This project is really something unique in terms of its complexity not least because the area of the new campus is under a preservation order. So the questions of what can incompetent on the territory but the university fits perfectly Boston University. Perfect. Steinhof mental hospital was built in the west of yennin between months enough five ninety seven. This was the time of the hospital building, boom, the Strahan Garin empire, the famous pocus dove senatorial by ios of Hoffman dates from the same period. But steinhoff is special and not just because it was designed by Ulta Wagner, one of the fathers of more Nakadate show. Consisting of two dozen pavilions foam theater and chech-. It's essentially kind of Motown thing is very important part of tobacco's. Darkness concept to include the landscape gardening and the. Yeah. We'll we'll supposed to be the healthy landscape into his project z up on the hill. There's church. So this is the point where we going on of coal is historian of architecture. Together, we climb the steep hill to the chance which in itself was one of the Jews valley twentieth century Kentucky. So even though we're speaking about mother medicine and psychology and everything Viennese modernism around nineteen hundred. It's still church that is the main architecture focus so see to church from the city, but from the church, you can also see this as a kind of dialectic between the area here in the city centre. Like, many places in Australia. The auto Wagner hospital has a dunked sign to its post during the Nazi regime. It was used for horrific experiments on children before shortly before what what to so in the during the German occupation of Austria. This was a kind of a very talk place in what a an expense experiments, and they also kind of select people so sick ill people at this able people they've forced them into experiments. A lot of them died here. They have also memorial. And I think as part of the story that should be told it should be not forgotten. Of course, the buildings are have no guilt. I mean, the people that have used them are guilty, but it's definitely part of the twentieth century history. And we would just coming up to the church now, and you were saying before there. It's interesting that in this motorist on some booth still the focal. Point is the church. I mean, why is it surprising? What is surprising? I think if you are researching architecture history around nineteen hundred and especially in Vienna. There's still a this idea of wholeness, and this idea of 'cause I'm inspect we should not forget that part of the I would say that reported eh Specht here was the healing of psychological illness, and the Christian faith was considered to be a major a major major part of that, and you know, to confront like visually the personnel. And also, the the people here with this higher thing the church. Now, the hospital is moving out and the best university moving in is the place to change completely before answer that I would say to architecture has ability, and it can host an institution that can university because it's multifunctional you have this pavilions it's like compass area, it has its hierarchy as we see church and also going to be interesting how the university would deal with the church here, it could change the dynamics of the place hopefully to make more people aware of this beautiful setting here and about the architectural heritage. So if the university is open and will be opened for the public. I think it's a good good aspect. Full monocle in Vienna. An exit corridor of. You've been listening to toll stories monocle twenty four production out. Thanks to Alexei Corey low for today's episode now remember to tune in on Thursday for the full thirty minute edition of the oven. Assed? I'm Ben Ryland. Andrew talkies back next week goodbye. And thank you. For listening said he loves.
Pick a better question than, Can I pick your brain?
"This marketplace podcast is supported by transfer wise a one stop shop for sending spending and receiving money internationally join over six million customers in seventy countries who are already saving and try it for free at transfer wise dot com slash marketplace or download the APP this marketplace podcast is brought to capital one with the spark cashcard from capital one you are offering unlimited two percent cashback on all of your business purchases learn more at Kaplan dot com capital one. What's in your wallet systems cost thousands of dollars so Peter Fox Penner a professor at Boston University says it's unlikely every home we'll get one in other countries sure it's fresh gasoline or all recommended order that's right we get our first peek at GDP growth for the third quarter on the morning of the Fed meeting Wednesday morning and the consensus where electricity is inconsistent? It's the norm for middle class and upper class families and businesses to have generators and with more frequent and severe wildfires and hurricanes the generator market is generating a lot of market interest. I'm Kimberly Adams for marketplace morning well one of the groups that you belong to the National Association of Business Economics There's a new survey suggesting of course David there's happiness economists Julia Coronado macropolicy perspective thank you very much my pleasure cooling economy so it's still a growth positive survey but the percent of businesses that are expecting growth to continue corporate economists flashing a caution sign about the economy on Mondays we like to consult economist Julia Coronado of macropolicy perspectives. Happy Monday if we can say that the penetration rate into the residential market for example has been about one percent and nationwide that averages about four and a half percent is falling so more expect growth in expect contraction but that percentage has declined throughout the year we'll hear about the feds as best agriculture solutions they're working with farmers to shape what's next farms were all life goes together crops that can help raise communities out of poverty tools that help vest back into your business so you can keep growing learn more capital one dot com capital one. What's in your wallet in a few minutes how much do you love the email murder false prophets this week marketplace's Kimberly Adams has more the planned outages by California's PG any left hundreds of thousands without power this fall the interest rate decision probably cutting rates slightly on Wednesday but it'll be informed by an economic growth figure that comes out for the summer too with California electric companies turning off power to keep lines from sparking more fire some residents are turning to home generators one of those companies generate reports from someone asking to pick your brain I'm David Brancaccio with the Guardians of interest rates set to slightly lower the cost of borrowing on Wednesday there's a new survey of I just watched the how to maintain your gasoline power generator video on generous site? Those things are a commitment oil changes filter cleaning running the unit monthly under load and making saying look our only solution is to turn the power off Brian Drop an analyst at William Blair says Californians typically don't buy a lot of generators eight percent in the first quarter so we're seeing that substantial slowing through the year GDP fascinating but is there more to life than GDP Julia the growth is going to continue to slow the forecast is for one point six percent in q three that's down from two percent in q two and more than three even generic holdings CEO Aaron Young felt was caught off guard he told CNBC Friday we didn't see the largest utility in the US coming out and saying if a person in the name of career networking can meet to quote pick your brain now not everyone wants picks in their brain but good people do wanNA help from time to time we can list by cast is supported by bear when we challenged what hasn't been done we discover the science behind what's yet to come that's what drives bear to find even better answers today in this market plants and farmers use less water bear science for a better life we're all for mentoring but maybe it's the phrase that needs work e mail that POPs up asking Salt Alison Green who answers questions like this under the banner ask a manager Alison Hi there welcome thanks for having me so I think we've all probably heard this or one guy in this field slamming the door on that possibility I remember who he was and I don't WanNa be that guy yeah that's what we're all grappling with brain you're going to be honest with me here some managers don't love getting those I think it's not just managers it's anyone who's attained a certain amount of success in their field often will you give me a job that is not often worthies go you might occasionally get a job lead out of it but when people go into those meetings expecting that it's help groups that have been traditionally disadvantaged rather than just expecting the people who are in those groups to do all the work themselves Workplace Culture Expert Alison Greens book is called gets inundated with this kind of request because the Internet has made it so easy to send that sort of email but it's a pretty big request I mean you're asking someone who might help but it can be tough when they're getting a lot of broad requests like that I'm not quite sure the meetings are that satisfying people you know if the implication is hickory encouraged to say yes to meetings with other women and people of color as a way of helping pulled other people up behind you and that is a lovely thing to do but it also means if you ask for a job you'll get advice but if you ask for advice you'll get a job so the next step is often emailing senior professional in your field asking can I pick you the best person to do that maybe there's some else can refer you to one of the reasons I try to help where I can is I remember what it was like to be trying to be networking and I remember Alvin pretty transparent the other person can pick up on that and it makes them uncomfortable it's much better to approach someone with a specific request like could I have ten minutes of your time ask manager how to navigate clueless colleagues lunch stealing bosses and the rest of your life at Work Alison always good to talk to thanks for having me what thorny workplace into the search bar and there you'll find a link spot put in your question for Alison to Ponder New York I'm David Brancaccio with the marketplace morning report isn't really explain what you're hoping to get from the time you know maybe you have a very targeted list of questions or maybe you were gonNA show up with nothing much to ask it's not the people are heartless and don't want time to get your advice on X. so you've thought through how they can be helpful to you the times more likely to be focused and efficient and it gives them the opportunity to say I'm not sure unlimited two percent cashback on all your business purchases think about it unlimited two percent cashback on everything you buy for your business and that cash back and add up to thousands of dollars would you this question would you like to ask a manager my boss blames me for being sick or will piercings hurt my career that kind of thing good marketplace dot org and type ask Kahad he balanced the other demands on your time with a desire to help
BONUS: Greg Fitzsimmons
"I am Chris hill. Welcome to a bonus episode of market foolery. If this is the first time you're listening. Thanks for checking us out, usually on this show. It's me, talking with one of the analysts from the motley fool about news from the world of business and investing in the stock market. And if you listen to some recent episodes, you'll get a sense of what we typically do on this show if you are a longtime listener, this is something a little different definitely motley. It is a conversation with comedian, Greg Fitzsimmons. He was in Washington DC last weekend. Doing some shows at a local club I went to his hotel on Saturday afternoon to talk with him. He was very generous with his time, and an absolute blast to talk with if you're unfamiliar with Greg, he is absolutely one of the most popular comedians in America. He has played all over the country for the past two decades. He's got specials on Netflix and comedy central. He's one daytime. Emmy awards as a writer on the Ellen Degeneres show. He's acted. He's done voiceover work. He's pretty much done at all. We talked about the business of comedy, how it has evolved over the years. The impact of Netflix on stand up comedy and a lot more. We're running an edited version of this interview on the motley fool money radio show this week. But I wanted to share the full conversation. It turns out that both of us were attending colleges in the city of Boston at the same time in the nineteen eighties. So that's where this conversation start. So here's me, and Greg Fitzsimmons. Well, I wasn't really planning on going to college to be honest after high school. I took a year off with no plans to go to college. And I saved up some money I work, two jobs. I was a cook at TGI Fridays at night. And then I was a caddy during the day it country club. I saved up four grand. And then I went to Europe I myself for like six months, and while I was there my father. Other applied to Boston University in my name wrote the essay everything, and I came home. And he goes, congratulations. I go what he goes, you got into Boston University. I go. I didn't apply to Boston University goes congratulate. And so, I was like, all right. I'll give it a shot. So they dropped me off in the fall and there and there's, you know, half a million students show up in the fall, and I just see like young kids with you halls. And I'm like, yeah, this'll work to so work. And so, I basically I wanted to be a writer, and when I was traveling around Europe, I filled up notebooks and I was always writing I wrote a novel while I was in Ireland terrible, but I wrote a novel and so I wanted to be a writer, and so, I was an English major and a minor in history. And. But I really wanted to be a stand up comic ever since I was a little kid, I would. Walk past a microphone. And I had to pick it up and tell jokes I watched every comedian on TV. I watched Carson every night from there's a little kid. I watch Carson every nice stay up late. And I was fascinated by everything that had to do with comedy. So when I got to be you, there was. Accommodate club, called stitches, which was literally, I could look out, my dorm window and see the back alley that connected us the stitches. And so, I would go there and hang out, and I'd watch the local Don Gavin and Kevin Meaney and Steve Sweeney, all these local legends that are still doing it to this day did are among the best comedians I've ever seen in my life. They just never left Boston. And so they hit an open mic night on Sundays, and it was called comedy hell and the 'cause it was so bad, like hardly anybody would show up and the host George MacDonald will get up and go, welcome to comedy hell where the where the pipe dreams of a bunch of comedy. Bozos can soar as high as the lights on Broadway or crash and burn in that fiery pit known only as comedy hell. So that was my first and the first time I performed in Boston was nineteen Eighty-six the night. Of the Super Bowl when the bears beat the patriots by like fifty six to seven. It was like a such a and so, the crowd was even worse than usual. But I had a bunch of friends that came. So I had some Schillt's and they were laughing and I did it and I was like that, was it switched just turned. And I was like this is what I'm gonna do. And so I spent the rest of college going to comedy shows and performing also going to class two or class during the day, and then at night, I would be out of the clubs. What was the reaction from your parents? They loved it. They loved it. I mean, my dad was a radio announcer in New York. And so he'd spent his whole life working from self entertainment, and you know. He was also a big influence because he would host a lot of charity events, and he would show up and he'd worth tuxedo, and he would have stories that he would tell that were like, stand up comedy routines, and he would make fun of whoever was in charge, and he did essentially stand up comedy at a time when there wasn't stand up comedy and a regular basis, there was back, then it was like people, I don't know playing in playboy clubs and whatever, but there weren't like stand up rooms, and I think that was big influence also on me doing it. Well, and to that point, I mean that's, that's part of what made Boston pretty amazing for stand up comedy in the nineteen eighties. You had. The combination of all of these clubs. I mean you mentioned stitchers I when I was at Boston College, I remember going to Cambridge going to catch a rising star. The closest club to BC was played against Sam, SAM's downtown, the Knicks comedy. You had all these low comedy can have all these clubs. And then you have as you said, all this talent locally, it's not just that you have these comedians who essentially start in Boston, and then sort of go national, Jay Leno Dennis Leary. Bill Burr, you even rice, even right? But you also have these guys like Tony v Don Gavin. Steve sweeney. Lenny Clarke, who are just monster talents and they just decide now I'm good. I'm just going to stay here, which I think it had to have been a shock for. Other comedians who started in other parts of the country when they came to Boston. Well, when they came to Boston, I just had Steve Sweeney on my podcast last week fits dog radio. And Steve is one of those legends and we talked about how they would have a guy come to town, who is a big name comic somewhere else. And maybe there on Saturday, live or whatever, and they were, they were decent comics, but they weren't necessarily great. And then come to Boston and what they the format of Boston was they would have a big local headliner host to shell. So he'd go up. He'd do twenty minutes, destroy bring up another act who would destroy then go up and do another fifteen minutes then bring up the headline from outside of town, who would die a horrible death because you can't you can't match a local comic. Who's that good destroying and with? Local references and making fun of the accent and all that. And so it was like it was like guys were frayed to come headline Boston. And they actually didn't. They didn't bring in outside headlines very much, which is why. It was an amazing place to start because it was like it was a community. It was a closed community. And so you had to develop your own voice you if you sounded like another comic who is already around, you wouldn't get work. So that's why you have so many different voice Dave cross coming out of their Bill Burr, Patrice O'Neal, Marc Maron, Louis CK, all with completely different voices, because they came out of this, man, it wasn't just the clubs downtown at the time comedy was so hot that they could do comedy anywhere and so Chinese restaurants typically have like a banquet room in the back that they barely used. And so they just converted it they just got a microphone and a spotlight. And they put a sign out front that said comedy on Tuesday nights, and they would sell it out. You could be in Bangor, Maine. And there would be the Shang Lao Chinese restaurant. And there would be a line of people waiting to get in and. Hey, twenty bucks to go see a comedian. And they would pay us, you know, couple of hundred bucks for the headliner fifty for the middle act and twenty for the so the, the budget was less than three hundred bucks. And now they've got two hundred people paying twenty take in four grand at the door. So these Chinese restaurants are opening everywhere around New England pizza places, and it didn't matter who the headliner was it just mattered that there was stand up comedy? That's how hot it was in the late eighties. Early nineties. Those were the clubs that I went to those were the first clubs that I went to when I when I go to comedy clubs, I would go to Boston clubs. And then when I moved to DC, and I started going to like doing a little bit of travel around the country and going to clubs I was struck by how different the dynamic was because I was used to the dynamic in Boston club where the energy is high. There's almost a borderline level, it's a little bit like if you're at a sporting event, and both teams are getting a little chippy this has still and you're watching your thinking, I think fights about and. The first time I went to a comedy club in DC. I remember sitting there with my roommate, it's time and we're sitting up close and the crowd was just, you know, sort of milling about it was a little almost passive. And I just thought this is weird. Why is this club because it was only later that I realized. Oh, no. That's a Boston thing. That's just how Boston, it's still like that. Right. But it but your point about, like if your young comics starting out, that's probably about as good as it gets a proving ground. Yeah, yeah. And it's and it was saloon comedy really was very much when you take the stage in Boston, there is not there is not an acceptance that you are the funniest guy in the room, you have to you have to prove it. And so they will heckle you if you're not doing well, and I remember one time, this, my favorite Hackel. I'm onstage and only been doing it for a couple years, and I'm up there, and I mean I'm getting nothing. When they decide that you're not funny. They collectively just shut down. And so I do joke, does no laughter, and then I overhear a woman in the front row. Saito Huzzah whispered to her husband, the past. And that was crueler that somebody yelling you suck from the background. Pity? It's just you know what Pearl insulting. Please don't level with your pity. So you talked about how hot Boston was in the late eighties and nineties, and then, of course I mean you're right. It's not just Chinese restaurants. All over New England realizing, oh, this is how we can make some extra money. It's other cities around the country. See what's happening in Boston, and started opening up and at the model full, we focus on investing, and business and that sort of thing and from a business standpoint, it was a little bit like the dot com. Bubble in two thousand two thousand one where you had like these businesses that didn't really have anything supporting them and all of a sudden, you've got Cleveland Ohio Dayton cities across the country opening up all these clubs and there's not really the talent is support. That's right. That's what happened is they too many clubs open to fast. And what would happen is they wouldn't get good. Comedian. And so they started doing what they call papering the room where they would give out free passes, and so on a on a Saturday night, which should be a pain crowd. We've made an investment to go see a show you're going to pay the twenty bucks and it's going to mean something and instead you're just getting free passes. You get your getting Tele marketed people would get cold at their house and go, hey, this is the date and funny bone. Do you want to come to a comedy show this week for free? People go. Okay. And then they kinda show up near the right. We have seen a movie. And so you get these lethargic crowds, and mediocre talent. And so all the sudden these clubs just start hemorrhaging money and folding. And, and it really another thing that killed it was. There was so much comedy on TV at the time you had Amy alone. Must have had three stand up comedy shows where it was a host, who would bring up three comedians and a half hour. Each doing seven minutes, and that was the show. And so you had it on VH one had a show and TV had stand up shows comedy central heads shows HBO had shows. And so all the sudden people were going, why would I pay to go out and watch you? When I can sit at home and watch the same comedians for free. And so that was another element that really heard that also has to good harder for you. Because as someone whose job is coming up with material, you know, there's, there's obviously, a benefit both professionally, and certainly economically to getting a half hour special on comedy central or something like that. But once people have seen that, that's a centrally material that you almost can't go back to when you're when you're talking around the country when the original borscht belt comedians in vaudeville comedians came up, and there's a great book about about its call. I believe it's called the comedians. And it is by wish I could think of his name, but. It tracks the history of stand up comedy going back to burlesque vaudeville, and those guys had one act, and they did comedy for thirty or forty years, and they went from town to town to town, and there was never the same crowds. Never the same people. There was no TV exposure. And so that actually got really good because they were honing it for so many years. And then with the advent of TV it's you had to start churning out new jokes all the time, and now with the internet, that's become exponential. Because now you have to tweet out jokes all the time you have to Instagram short videos of you doing jokes, people are recording you in clubs on their phone and uploading to YouTube and, and then you're doing one hour specials. And so it's like the public expects to be fed new material all the time, and when they're not they lose interest. So, you know. It's become like I'll finish this interview and go back to my room and write jokes, the rest of the day. I'm taking away from your job. Not at all time, much rather be doing this. So let's go back to the early nineties when the bubble starts burst. What is that, like for you and other comics who are coming up at that time because? On the one hand, you've got this incredible training that you've undergone for years in Boston. You're essentially set up to what if you can get laughs at Knicks or stitches, by the way. How great is that for a name for a comedy club houses? How about the fact that I was beat up on stage and fitches literally, I had a guy from the Israeli army cabdriver sitting in the front, row, heckling me, and I. And he came up on stage and he came at me and I hit him in the head with the microphone, and then he got me in a headlock, and he spun me around and we'd knocked down all the tables, and, and then I got off stage, and then the owner, Harry Conforti, says to me all right fit Simmons. You got five minutes left, and he's back on stage again to be abandoned or something, I wrenched my neck. I sent them the bills from the chiropractor, they never paid the thank stitches this still. But. Done this training, you're getting laughs in clubs like that. Where there's this. Often hostile relationship with the audience, it's got to be easier to go to Kampe or, or most other cities. But once that comedy, bubble burst. What is that like for you? Well, it didn't affect me necessarily because I, I then transitioned used to after I'd been doing snag got out of college, and then I started going down in New York, a couple of days a week, and I would crash on couches ironic because I just wrote on the show, crash years, and I would I had an apartment in Boston, and I would work like the Wednesday through Saturday night, and then I finished my show, Saturday night, and I drive to New York and I just hang around the clubs because very hard to get in at the clubs in New York. So all you can do is show up show, your face the comedian would come to Boston would introduce me to the club owners, and eventually, they'd look at you. And if you're lucky you get past to do late night spots, which may going on, at one in the morning in front of four people, and you do that for years. I'm sure there were also. Yeah. Exactly. And so I then moved to New York. And so, I was, you know, the New York clubs were still strong. So for me, it was just running around and then I went to acting school for two years so acting schools Monday through Wednesday. And then I would go do college shows, which were still going strong. So I would flat do colleges, I still did some clubs. But mostly I was just working Manhattan clubs and colleges. So I kinda survived the bubble. And then club started to come back again after that, when do you start getting into writing on television shows because I was looking at your? I am deep. It's very impressive list of shows that you've written on I. Well, I was hired to do audience warm up on Bill Maher show, politically incorrect back when it was in New York. And so I was doing warm up and Bill like my stand up that I was doing during the warm. So he hired me as a writer. So that was my first writing job. And then, and then since then, and I didn't do much writing after that. But I got a taste of it. And I was like, all right. This is really fun. I mean, being around the funniest smartest writers around and sitting in a room with them and riffing was just a blast. And so then when I had my son I wanted to get off the road more. I was on the road forty weekends a year. And so I had a kid and I was like, all right. I got rain in a little bit. And so I talked to Louis C K, who is a writer on Cedric the entertainer presents, and I said, Louis I get off the road. I'm missing my son. So he got me a meeting the next week with Cedric, and I pitched him some jokes and Cedric hired me and ever since then for like the last eighteen years, I've pretty much split my time between writing and stand up. Like I do. You know, a lot of times, I'll consult on a show. So I'll just go in a few days a week. And then I can still go out and do stand up, or if I staff on a show full-time, I'll do it for three four five months. And then I'll spend the rest of the year. Go on the road doing stand up and the great thing about that is. I mean, if we're gonna talk financials is that TV money is really good. And standard is good. But not quite as good as TV money. And so. It, it allows me to not do the road gigs. I wouldn't want to do like, when they offer me, the Dayton funny bone. I go pass all respecting. But no, right. By the way, I don't think that exists, making it a and then, and then if there's a writing job that comes up, you know, bad sitcom, I can say Nell pass. I don't wanna do that. So I could play one off the other and do do the best of both worlds. And then also the writers guild is an amazing union, which I get my health benefits from, so for my family for the last eighteen years, we've had health coverage through the writers guild and also a pension where I have one year, left to qualify, you need to you need to qualify for seventeen years in the guy have sixteen right now of years that I've qualified, and then you get health coverage for the rest of your life. Yeah. Anna pension. From time to time people in Silicon Valley other places, but usually it's Silicon Valley will get referred to as serial entrepreneurs, they're just like people who are driven they started a business, and then they sell it or they move on like that sort of their mode. They're almost like sharks. Gotta keep moving forward. And when I was driving over here, I was thinking about sort of your world, and how comedians are almost like they must have to be serial. Entrepreneurs only the businesses themselves that it's just you can't. Sit back and relax. You constantly have to have multiple irons in the fire weather that, yes, I'm going to be on the road, forty weekends out of the year or Artem split my time, but I can't just cut back on the road. I've gotta have I got to keep moving with writing gigs? Yeah. And you're also always developing. You have to pitch, I've sold. I've probably sold twenty shows, you know, where you, they, you sell them an idea, and then he developed the idea and on paper, and then if you're lucky they order it, and you shoot a pilot. And then if that goes, well hopefully they put something on the air. And so you're constantly coming up with ideas. And then your agent sets up pitch meetings. Then you go into all the networks and you pitch to show and that's an iron in the fire. And then you've got I wrote a book on the side. A lot of comics, right books. You do it by doing been doing a podcast for eleven years now. I'm doing a second podcast. Yeah. It's constant merchandise. Comedians, come up with t shirts or record a record a CD and you sell that after the show. You know, the money comes from you have to make sure the money's coming from a lot of different places. And I think I've read on the motley fool the key, to wealth is having multiple income streams, certainly doesn't hurt if you have even if they're small it adds up. I have to believe that given what Netflix has done in terms of the investment than Netflix says made in comedy that has to be helpful to the comics industry if only because they're investing money in comedy. So it's one more opportunity to pick someone. Yeah, it is too. I think to to an excess though there's been too many specials on net flex, and so it doesn't mean as much anymore. You know, they literally I think they recorded a hundred last year. I mean back about twenty five years, the idea that someone insert name of any comic that they're going to have an HBO special like all my God. Yeah. Now that really meant something when kinison did it or Bob cat, gold, flayed, or somebody really made you a headline that could command real money on the road. And with Netflix, there have been some people that really popped. I mean you have guys like Tom Sikora Bill Burr alley. Wong guys people and, and these are people that are going out, and they're playing, you know, five to ten thousand seat theatres because of a Netflix special, but there's also the ninety nine other people that may be got a blip. Maybe it helps but, you know, the algorithm of net flicks is that if some if more people watch it the more it gets put in front of you and the mortgage watched. So it becomes very viral. And so, you know, it's a good thing. I did one and I noticed some difference, but not huge. But this just reminded me of something, I think on your podcast when Neal Brennan was on. I think the two were you were talking about this? Because if you think back to definitely the nineteen seventies and probably from most of the nineteen eighties. The crown jewel for any comic is five minutes on the tonight show with Johnny Carson meaningless now if and if you like, but back, then if you got that, that, that was almost all you needed and now. Yeah. I mean it's, it's basically it's nowhere near as impactful as. Sitting down with someone like you or Marc Maron, or Joe Rogan without a doubt. I mean you look at Rogan's numbers, he's getting millions of downloads per episode, and it's an hour long interview with no commercials in the middle. And then you talk about doing five minutes on the tonight show, where I bet they get a million viewers, maybe, and you're the last five minutes of the shell where most people have gone to sleep or turned it off. And if they do watch it, you know, that doesn't mean they're gonna come out whereas the podcasts are generally done by stand up comedians. So the audience are people that are inclined to go see comedy shows, so it's, it's your audience that you're trying to reach in terms of the writing that you do is one more enjoyable than the other. I mean you talked about you're, you're going to go back to your room and do some writing is. That more meaningful for you than going into a writer's room. Or is it something where there, they provide a nice balance to each other that because I can imagine a writer's room being a lot of fun. I can also imagine a scenario where if you're running on a show for a couple of years, and you're seeing the same people in the room at some point you start to get a little sick of each other. Yeah. It's definitely a balance is upsides sitting alone in a hotel room and trying to write can be really painful. You know, Adderall is my friend and sitting in a room, at least, there's momentum, you're sitting there and there's, there's a show, and I've been a show runner, and I don't enjoy that. And I don't want to really show run anymore one, it's just too many too many people to answer to, and it's too much pressure. When you staff on a show generally when you leave work, you're done with work for the day. And I like the I like riffing in the room. I like having a script I can go off. 'cause once usually you do. Maybe do one or two scripts a season. That's got your name on it. So the room will pitch out the episode, and you'll get the beats, and you'll get some jokes and then you go off, and they give you three or four days or a week. And then you go write the script, and that part's really fun. But the rest time you're in the room and you just part of collective. Energy, which is great, but it's also can be long days on crashing when we were in New York filming I was there a lot of nights on that show tonight scenes, yeah. And so you would go till four in the morning, five in the morning in the village drunks walking past. It's ninety eight degrees during the day, and you're filming on a highway in Long Island and send fourteen hour days and it was like it was pretty brutal. But you're also you feel like you're a part of a group, like, you know, the you get to know the grips and the cameraman and the makeup people, and it's like it really becomes, like you get close to people, and you look forward to seeing them every day. And they if it's a HBO show, whichever it on a couple of shows, they're just very generous with food and coffee, trucks, and people walking around with muffins at ten in the morning that they just bay. And then they give you the they just let e whatever you want. You got any? Restaurant, for lunch is great. There's a lot of perks. That's. But, but now I think it's definitely a balanced. The upside was stand up is like, right a budget jokes, and then tonight, I'll do two shows, and I will do those jokes, and I'll find out immediately if they're funny or painfully if they're not funny, but there's an immediate gratification, and it's a singular effort. So the rewards are definitely a lot more. That's one of those things of enjoyed. Hearing on your podcast is you and whoever your guest is at any given time talking about the process that different comedians go through, and how some comedians are Soma THAAD ical in ways that you wouldn't necessarily expect from their act. The one that I have in my mind is Rodney Dangerfield. I mean you just think about the persona of Rodney Dangerfield. He's kind of this loose character. But from a work standpoint, he was someone who was very. Methodical about his material. He anthony. Justin Lee has a new special add on Netflix. This just amazing. And I mean, that guy's process is he will write jokes and perform them, just in LA, just work in the clubs, which is no money, you literally can't make a living just working LA. But that's what he does. And, and he spends a year developing a new hour. And then he for a year, he goes to stand up comedy clubs where it's more supportive. It's more a little looser, you can still be workshop ING them cereal, who's actually getting paid and he's getting paid. And then the year after that he does theaters where he's making huge money. And then the end of that he, he does a special do Netflix special, and then that materials dead. And he starts all over again and his jokes are so tight. There is not an extra word in any of his jokes and his he's so precise. I'm just I'm off him. He's really great. So you do stand up, you podcast you, right? You've done acting you've done voice work. What is the most satisfying, you personally? And what is the most profitable for the bottom line of Greek fit Simmons Inc. Development deals can be very lucrative. You know you get six figures on these development deals. So you try to land one of those every year or two and then the it. Corporate dates I just did a corporate date this past week, and that's a lot of money. But you gotta be super clean. You gotta go in. I did. I did it for one of the biggest health care providers in the country, I won't say which one. But. It's not enjoyable. Do you go up there and you gotta be squeaky clean? No politics, cursing, no sex and go up. And this was at six o'clock outside in a tent. So it's light out, everybody, everybody's like senior executives, so there, it's very stuffy. And then they served dinner to everybody as I was getting on stage. So good luck with that. I've yet to hear a comedian talk about a corporate gig. In any way, other than what you just. It's just like we have the money's good. But you gotta be clean oftentimes. There's someone pulls you. Sign says, oh, here's some background material on the president of the company. Can you work in some jokes that I actually don't mind that because it's a great way to start when you can when you can talk directly to them? And that's kind of one of the ways I pitched myself corporate dates as a writer, I actually don't mind spending some time and doing the first ten minutes about the company. Like I did a bunch of insurance jokes at the beginning, and they worked really well. But I guess other ways, you know, the podcast adds up. Podcasting is turning into real money. You know, it's like the last four years, or so it's been something like I could live off just the podcast if I wanted to, and then. But like a good network sitcom job because I've worked my way up title wise is now. Probably the most lucrative of everything. Is it harder today for comedians from a business standpoint because there are all these different options because there are so many avenues. It strikes me as it's got to be harder for at least for comedians starting out to get noticed. Just the fact that they can post videos on YouTube for free make it even easier are a lot of headliners around the country that have social media following and the clubs little book them when they have a million followers because they know they can get crap. And this is kind of what happened when the last comedy, bubble burst is they were booking headliners that they thought could draw because there was a soap opera star name, Walt Willey, who is exactly and they would put him into clubs and crowds leave. And they would go I'm never coming to the Dayton funny bone again because that was such a terrible experience and clubs have to book great comedians. And there are enough great comedians right now and they don't do that. And it's gonna ultimately burn them. But no, I think it's America Crecy. I think if you're a really good comic, and you're in and you're in a big market, whether it's New York or LA Chicago, Boston, San Francisco, you will. Will get seen and you'll eventually get asked to go to the Montreal comedy festival where you'll get an agent. And in the agent will push you out and you'll get see if you have an if you have a unique voice, and you kill, and you make crowds laugh, you will move ahead, you'll get a writing job, or you'll get on a sitcom, or you'll get your, your shot at it may take years, but takes me seven years until I got any notoriety before I got really seen. And the best thing that comedian can do is Cy believe stay in a secondary market and get really good go place like Austin, Texas and Minneapolis, where you can actually work three four five nights a week and not be seen by the industry, and get so good that when you come to New York or LA, you're blowing everybody else off the stage. And all sudden you make some noise, and then you get you get a development deal you get an agent or whatever. And then things will happen from there. There's something I've heard you and other comedians talk about that. I, I would like to try and understand better. Because. You just laid out a great business case for comedians, and sort of, like, hey, from business Tampa, and here's how you can succeed. And yes, it involves years of work, but there's something that you've done per patent. Oswal talk about this. That goes completely against the business. Rationale of what makes a successful comic, and that is walking the room. What, what goes into the decision when you're onstage to walk the room because? I. Because it's one of those things that I had never I think the first person, I've heard talk about it with was patent Oswald. Yeah. He was doing a club in Pittsburgh. And he just decided the, you know, the crowd started to turn on him. And he's decided, okay. I'm going to make these people leave. And, and it was walking the room strikes me as one of those things that. Almost instantly earns you the respect of other comics, who are in the back of the room, like we use that voice on the office from time to time just like playing in the back of the room. Finally, someone is what is that come from that actually comes from comedy clubs where the other comics are literally sitting at the back of the room, and sometimes the comic onstage will do some material and it's not for the audience. It's just for the comics in the back of the room. Yeah. I think that, that Pat, nozzle story. I believe he had to hide in the manager's office after the show they were coming after him. I think that comedy to me is about defiance. It's anti Thawra -tarian. It's very I think this is where Boston helped me develop voice like that. Is it saying, I'm in charge? You may be collectively providing the laughter, but I don't care about that. I care about taking my vision and what I think is funny and trying to connect to you. And if it works it works if it doesn't it doesn't, but I don't live or die by you. And when you get when you get a crowd, and it happened to me the only night I really did. It was in Minneapolis, and there was there was a club there. And I was doing great. And I did like I did like my did an hour. And then this woman heckled me and I slammed her and I did it really hard and everybody started moaning at what I did. And I go. Oh, you're on her side. She's disrupting is I just entertain you for an hour, and you're on her side or all the after all this. And so I said, all right, fine. I'm gonna walk the room and I just started doing jokes about nine eleven and aids and crib death and every horrible, the holocaust, and I just they just started getting up and leaving and I'd be like can I take care, and I just kept going after like fifteen minutes of that probably half the room left and then the other half or psychos that were enjoying it and I go, all right? I'm going to give you guys another ten minutes because you earned it you stayed. And then I never got booked at that club again. Well, that's the thing that's like you from a business. I totally get what it can median of a certain stature would make that decision. But I think you mid this point to, to someone in your show recently, where basically you can't you can't be the comic who does that all the time you can like you. Like you're going to do that move couple of time, but then you're going to be known as feel Hicks used to walk their room a lot, and that was part of his persona though. And I think. I just think that there's something about most comedians at some comics will never walk a single person in their life, and that's fine. That's their energy is different. There's guys that are graded corporate dates thrive at them. But kind of the world, I come from is more of like. You're not gonna tell me what to do. It's I don't know if it comes from childhood, or unprocessed rage, but there's enough clubs out there where I cannot have to work certain ones, and I can make good living at it. There's always options and I mean you talked up being a serial entrepreneur, there's always another option of something you can do as a comic. You can improvise and just. I don't know. I don't know if you do it to impress the other comedians as much as I think you're reaffirming to yourself, that you're doing it your way. No. I didn't mean to imply that you were doing it to impress comedians at the back of the room. But it does seem like when those stories get around other comics are interested in here and probably your story about that. And from an artistic standpoint. To take it away from Joaquin room. This goes back to something that I read in an interview you gave where you're asked the difference between a good comedian and a bad comedian. And you said a good comedian works from the inside out a bad. Comedian, basically, takes the temperature and says, well, what what do you want? What do you want to hear say, whatever to make you laugh and good? Comedian says now this is this is this is my viewpoint. This is what I think. And hopefully you're going to enjoy it. He and I now you're seeing more is because of the internet, you can you can draw your audience, and is it really good article about business in and being an entertainer, which is one thousand true fans, I think is the name of the article. And if you can get one thousand people to follow you on Twitter and Facebook, and when you put out a book, they're gonna buy it when you do show, and their town, they're going to come. See it. If you sell a t-shirt online, they're going to buy it. And if you can. Those one thousand people to really commit you can make a living. And so now you can attract your audience through social media, and through TV shows, but there's enough where it's it can start with doing small clubs on the road to doing small theaters. And that you got I mean I could name fifty people that can go out on the road and play rock clubs or alternative venues, and the only advertisement they do is podcasts or they're they're social media count, and those people, and they fed those people, they've given them a couple tweets day, and they've put out new material. And so you've rewarded by being able to fill up a room in, in markets all around the country and be able to pedal your wares. I should let you get back to your. If you want to hear more from Greg checkout, his Netflix special, and definitely check out his weekly podcast fits dog radio. It is one of the shows that I listen to. And if you like comedy, I think you'll enjoy it. Thanks for listening. We'll see on Monday.
Boston City Officials Express Concerns Over University Students Returning To Campus
"Northeastern and Boston University. The two largest universities in the city plan to bring back thousands of students on campus in the fall for for on campus instruction. But as corona virus cases continued a spike in states around the country, those plans are worrying some city officials city councillor Kenzi Bach wrote a letter to both universities today asking them to completely abandon their on campus plans and go entirely online. This fall counselor balked joins us. Now she represents Mission Hill Fenway Back Bay Beacon Hill and the West End Counselor. Welcome to radio. Boston. and. He's not Jamie great to be here so I just before we continue should note that be you holds the broadcast licensed to wb you are counter Bach there are dozens of colleges and universities in in Greater Boston why are you singling out bu and northeastern I'm thinking of Emerson College, which is also in the heart of the city they plan to bring back at least some on campus students as well as well as you mentioned Jamie, these are the two largest institutions and we have and. They also have a really high percentage of out of state students so both be northeastern seventy, five percent of their students are out of state and really the reason that I sent that letter is because I think we're we're just at the last moment before the point of no return on bringing students back into the city and right now to me the paramount public health concern for Boston is that we have a tradition where we increase our city population by ten percent at the end of this month. And these students are a big part of that and I think that doing that with. Indicators where they are in Massachusetts and really where the indicators are. The rest of the country is just not wise and we look to northeastern bu yearly the leaders on this I see. So so you mentioned the point of perhaps no return were only a few weeks away from soons actually getting here. So are we do close to that point of? For these two universities to completely change their plans and go all virtual. No I wouldn't say that we completely changing their plans i. think one of the things is that both these universities and I think really all our universities have made plans for mixed instruction where you've got at least some virtual option for students who are choosing to stay home or who have to stay home and so what's good about that is there already set up to do virtual teaching, and so it's just a question of of closing down the option of doing the in person instruction on and I don't think it's too late I. Think there are a lot of students who because everything has been so up in the air haven't signed leases I I think that. I just think that when we're talking about the public health of the city and our wider community in the off campus neighborhoods that I represent truly we can't sleep walk our way anything. Right it can't be too late to to make the necessary public health interventions. So is would complete shift to virtual learning be enough in European I'm thinking you know other things that the city would need to do addressing the return of people to their offices or international travel through Logan Airport beyond just addressing the universities. Well the city and the state right we're having to think about like harm mitigation reduction in every sense in every industry all the time right now, and of course, it's going to be a million steps to take and some students are going to be at our universities and we're GONNA be through regardless I. think to me it's the point here is really that the biggest. Harm reduction step we could take for the city right now is to bring fewer people into our ecosystem from all over the country where we're seeing B.'s GRANOLA buyers, hot hotspots that sort of step one upstream right and then yes, absolutely. There'll be lots of things that we have to do downstream however, it shakes out. So Counselor W. are reached out to be. You. In Northeastern and they responded to your letter B. You says in part quote, continue to work with the counselor in her constituents to prioritize their health and safety along with the health and safety of the entire Bu community and northeastern says in part quote we are moving cautiously and carefully ahead with the plans we announced in June. So what's your reaction to that? I just hope that they consider they continue to reconsider the situation as we're getting new data day by day I'm very sympathetic to the fact that the universities have put a ton of effort into these plans and they're very elaborate and there's lots about them to admire and I think the testing capacity they stood up is substantial but I think what I'm tasked with looking at the neighbors I represent where you`ve Got A bunch of vulnerable elders living in place you've got a lot of essential workers and then the question becomes is this enough for it to be worth the risk of brain all these students back in this large wave and I think the answer is just no. So to me, it's it's not to say they haven't put a ton of thought energy into these plans. I think it's just that when you zoom out. At, a sort of macro public health level on that doesn't make sense. So and we'll be talking the rest of the hour about the coronavirus pandemic. But I. I'm I'm struck by this idea that you also represent students and parents, and so I'm curious what you're hearing from them about the other side of this coin, another missed term on campus or or the type of learning that happens online, which is not the same as on campus learning what are you hearing from them? Yeah I. Think we all know this terrible situation. I actually teach undergraduates like I think that learning the classrooms amazing and all know everyone wants to be in those communities. I think it's just A. We have to we have I think what? I hear actually from a lot of parents and students is a sort of half recognitions sometimes full recognition already that there's a good chance that even if we started this way, we might a place in a month where we have to shut it back down again right and I think everybody knows that we we all wish we were living in a coast vaccine or pre covid world but we have to kind of square up to the situation. We are in and actually I've heard from a lot of students in their parents who are also concerned and wish this weren't the case but see the merits of virtual learning for the time being and and to me there's you know there's no way out. But through here, right we've got to we've got to bring transmission down with got contain virus aggressively contact trace, and maybe that puts us in a position to be talking about in person instruction the spring right but it's there's just No way around the spot that we're in right now we we've got to be mitigating risk cover. We can and switching virtual earnings part of that well, and part of of that struggle to his struggle of small businesses. You know I'm thinking of all of those local places that rely on the foot traffic from students, the the LAUNDROMATS, the whatever's the sub shops right, and so what are you hearing from them about fears of yet another extended if the students don't come back another extended period with fewer customers. Yeah I think it's it's terrifying and everybody again, everyone feels that but it's that's the situation we're in I. Mean you're going to be spending our talking about it right but the. Reality is that we have not succeeded as a society yet in knocking down to scale where we can really robustly reopened an. That's so frustrating. It's infuriating to me someone at the local level but. What can the city council do to mitigate that that business loss? I. Think we can. I mean I think we can continue to do the the things that he's been doing around the edges right which is we did small business grants loans from the city helping people with reopening safely. How do you adjust to take out? How do you have spots in front of your your establishment, and then all of us need to be advocating in a big way at the federal level for more support for our small businesses and our universities right i. mean there's absolutely a ton of jobs. On the line here and we need to be supporting them economically and it's just it's just we're in the middle of a of a disaster right of a pandemic emergency and and part of what government has to do in that situation step in and backstop people financially. Also, I wanna ask you about about what government can do as well. I'm thinking in terms of the teeth that the city council has to actually impact how universities choose to bring the students back can the council really stop be you or eastern or any other college from moving forward on any of their plans? I think when it comes to like you know in order that has to come at the governor's level I think that we can. We can advocate and use our voices. That's what I'm doing today speak up for the neighbors living in our off campus communities where things that are usually quality of life issues. Students having parties are turning into life and death issues. But I certainly don't have the power to compel. The universities but I do think that we have the power collectively as a community in Boston. Talk through how we how we keep everybody safe and counselor. Before we let you go and earn our final moments here I do want to ask you about Boston public schools potentially reopening Maybe saw today that the UN Secretary General called on countries around the world to prioritize reopening in-person schooling. As he fears quote, generational catastrophe from the pandemic we know Boston will either be all remote or hybrid remote in person of in some fashion which way do you think the city should should take? you know I. Actually a I think, the superintendent has just released a plan. And I haven't had the chance to read it yet. I think just in the last like ours though so I I'm going to go look at where. The has landed tentatively so far before I comment on that further I think that. You know it's the same. It's the same kind of you know terrible set of of conflicting situations here, and one thing I would say is I think everybody. Everybody recognizes that our kids need so much support to get through this year ahead. Regardless of whether it's virtual or hybrid. I mean our schools provide so much support when they're in person day day to day and. and. We're just going to need a kind of Moonshot of civic resources to help support them through this home enough learning loss whichever way the schooling plant shakes out. Got It Melissa. Boston city councillor Kenzi Bach. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks much Jamie. So listening into that conversation. WAS WBZ are edify reporter carry young carry welcome back to Radio Boston. I thanks for having me. Thanks for joining us. So I I want to ask you because we just heard council there say that there's a potential school plan being released right now for the city of Boston do you do you have that yet? I do not have that yet is something that we are watching closely into the school committee meeting is coming up on Wednesday. So tomorrow we are reaching out and looking into a few things. I. Don't have that information. Let's just yet on the K. through twelve system. Okay, we're GONNA continue following that the WBZ newsroom. We'll continue following that as as it becomes available, carry I, WanNa ask you then what your other reactions were to what we just heard from councilor. Buck. Yeah I mean you. She makes a Mexican point I mean between Bu and northeastern that they bring in a lot of students to the area. I mean, just looking at their student body numbers, it's about sixty one thousand students that's undergraduates and graduate students, which is about half of all of the enrolled are college students in the Boston area So you know by making action on just these two schools, it does make a big impact so You know I think whatever these two schools do you know that? Like I said, that is GonNa make a big impact, and then she also brings up a really interesting point here too politically as. City councils kind of in a tough spot here you know colleges are governed on the state level. So there are some things city council can do whether it's it's loans or making city policies, VAT gatherings, and things like that but But yeah, it will be interesting to see as the next career starts just how the might be able to get involved in how they do get involved to keep this under control. So put bu and northeastern in the context for us because they're just as we mentioned two of the many schools in the Greater Boston area, how are the other schools around here dealing with this exact question? Well I mean some have changed course actually I'm just in the last few weeks even a Berkeley College of music is the most recent to change their plans. Simmons. University has announced that they are going to be all virtual this fall. And then you've got a few who are attempting to do something in between sort of like Harvard, they're allowing about forty percent of their student body on campus is going to be online You know. So it kind of is arranged here in Boston or the Boston area rather. So I know we are so far from what we could describe as a from a usual year. Right? We're far from normal here but what's the normal impact on the city of Boston all of these students coming in economically numbers wise. Yeah. So the the Boston Planning and Development Agency did a report twenty seventeen and they say that there's about one hundred, thirty, eight, thousand Undergrad and Grad students who were enrolled in the Greater Boston like colleges and universities an and those students do gravitate towards sobriety of housing on all only about forty three percent of those students live within city limits though and breaking nap down about forty four thousand. Of those students that forty three percent Optima off-campus. So that's a lot of rental space. Those are a lot that's a lot of housing that's not inside campus control that could be taken up this fall and so could have economic ripple effects as well. Then that sense depending on what students choose to come back or whether they opt for online only. So so I hear Counselor Balk in her in her strenuous. Plea to to put public health public safety I but there are other factors on the other side of this coin. Is that right? Yeah I mean, one thing that you guys have mentioned already was just like the financial strain on the businesses in and around the colleges the thing the things that are amid like foot traffic cut. Sandwich shops, etcetera but you know when you look at the colleges themselves, this is pandemic has been a really big financial strain on them You know like when students to vacate last year. A lot of schools issue partial refunds for room and board that was hugely expensive, and then you know just to put that into context especially, if colleges opting to go all remote next year like they're not doing in person at all and room and board is a really significant revenue generator at a lot of colleges on I looked at northeastern summers just for an example and it can cost student about eleven to fifteen thousand dollars per year for room and board. And that's about a third of the total cost of attending the school you know, and then you look at the other numbers of just how many people do live on campus each year that's about seventy five percent of undergraduates at least. So you know looking at how much that could cost numbers those numbers could be significant. So we heard a little bit from both universities in our conversation with councilor. Bach did you have any more information about what they're saying about right now their plans for the fall. The university's plans in fall I mean the. Most of the communication were getting know especially with the you I now being licensed by be we do get a lot of. Their notifications they know they are working really hard on testing and getting those policies and procedures in place as to where students should go and how long the turn around time is and that kind of thing. So I think there's still a lot of There's still a lot of procedure that's being worked out from what I can tell But so far? Especially, these two big schools they they are moving forward with with in person, but also giving people that that option to stay remote if they want to. So in giving people that option to stay remote, what are you hearing from students? Are they are they taking taking up the schools on that offer? We'll students response is really been really really mixed. I spoke with one student this afternoon Miranda. As she's from Texas and she's going into her fourth year at northeastern she said, she decided really recently like two weeks ago that she was gonna stay home i. she said if campus life is just going to be really altered in so many rules we're going to be there and you know like gatherings wouldn't be allowed in the first place. She said not going to be the same and she said a lot of money in housing costs plus. She said she was really impacted by seeing the covert numbers really explode in Texas over the summer and she said, she didn't WanNa see that same thing happened again in Boston with everyone coming back on let's hear what she had to say, I just don't trust the student population as a whole to be responsible and I just had a bad feeling about going back in fact you know I'm just going to experience the same thing that experienced here at home. But there are other students that that. Say you know we can't trust our peers on like if your suite mate comes down with Cova test positive then that means you are also quarantined. You can kind of hold each other accountable a student from B. U. arising junior her name was Tonya Grover She said that she is planning to come back but she said that decision really had to do with her productivity experience in online classes from from last spring. Let's hear what she had to say it was so hard to do school at home just because I was so used to being in my own independent room and having to plan my own schedule. But I, just feel like the level of focus had home was extremely hard to be able to do my classes well. And you know from what the if I. Desk has been reporting and has been hearing there. There are a lot of mixed feelings among. Professor is another college staff to so really it. It really just depends I guess is is how that ends up a lot of uncertainty they're carried in our last thirty seconds here. What are you watching for going forward in the next couple of weeks before school return? You know I mean I. I'm looking for. You know updates in testing policies and procedures like I said, there's a lot of logistics being planned out right now and then I think there could be a possibility whether or not. It's you know these big schools that decide not we're going to change course but I think there might be space for other schools to change courson assertive pullback on more of their in person learning. That's wr edify reporter carry young Kerry thanks so much. You're welcome.