19 Episode results for "Bohannon"

Beginners Pluck (with Liz Forkin Bohannon)

The Accidental Creative

32:50 min | 1 year ago

Beginners Pluck (with Liz Forkin Bohannon)

"Today's episode of the accident creative podcast brought to you by fresh books to see fresh books. Conceive you time and boost your creativity because the fresh books dot com slash accidental accidental creative ahead of looking at the beginning look at the beginning. Everyone look into the accent credit podcast. My name is Todd Henry. I'm your host. I'm also the author of the accidental creative Diane Empty Louder Than Words and the new book Hurting Tigers which is about how the lead creative people well when we hear the stories of entrepreneurs especially when they're in written form like in books we often hear the backwards sanitized version in right or we often hear platitudes. We hear them talking about big. Principles big ideas things that we've heard a million times things that aren't necessarily always helpful old for those of us who are in the trenches who are really trying to build something a meaning but we really don't know how to take the next step. Well recently met someone who has not only bend successful in her own right is an entrepreneur but she's teaching other people how the follow in her footsteps but she's doing very practical very authentic transparent apparent way and I was just blown away by a talk. I heard her recently. Give and I think her book beginners. Pluck is one of the best books that I've read in a very very long time. Name is Liz Foregin Bohannon. She's the author of beginners. Pluck build your life purpose impact now and on today's episode we're GonNa talk about some kind of counter intuitive principles that she believes are essential for those of us who want to build a life of purpose in impact especially if we're trying trying to build our own business but this is relevant to anybody working in any kind of an organization doing any kind of work or just building a life in general this is going to be relevant advice for you so. I can't wait for our conversation with Liz. Bohannon is coming up here in just a minute before we dive into one Latino. Today's episode is brought to you by fresh books so as creative prose. We're in the business of turning clever ideas into customer value. That's what we do and the thing is great ideas and great creative work. Take time they take energy is one of the things I wrote about in hurting tigers is leaders. We have to protect the time and energy of our team in order to provide them the space. They need to do their best work. Well we need to do that for ourselves as well and if you're a freelancer an an entrepreneur somebody who's running your own business. You have to manage yourself by protecting your time and energy to do that work. That is truly valuable the things you're being paid paid for well. Doing things like administrative work accounting invoicing. That doesn't necessarily leave you at the time and energy. You need to be able to do your best work working. That's where fresh books can help fresh books as accounting software designed for creative professionals like you and like me. It's so easy to use the you'll save up to sixteen hours a month on time consuming adleman paperwork which means you'll have more time to let creativity flourish fresh books is packed with time saving features like you can create and send brandon voices about thirty thirty seconds it is so easy so simple and the invoices look great and they're so easy to interact with you can set up. Ach Credit Card payments right there on your invoices and get paid up to two two times faster you can snap photos of your receipts from your phone and make managing expenses a million times faster so when tax time rolls around you can export tidy reports for expenses ince's invoice details in sales tax to make working with your accountant a breeze. Maybe even a pleasure to allocate more time to creating more of your energy to doing the work. That's providing providing value for your customers and let fresh books. Take care of all the boring accounting and bookkeeping for you right now. We're offering listeners a thirty day. Free trial of fresh books is no credit card required all you have to do good fresh books dot com slash accidental and interacts noah creative in how did you hear about the section fresh books dot com slash accidental and in and are accidental creative in how did you hear about a section we think fresh books for sponsoring this episode of the accidental creative podcast well. It is a joy to have on the show today lose foregin Bohannon. Dan and Liz is the author of a new book called beginners. Pluck build your life of purpose and impact now. She's also the founder of Saco designs is going to be NIA. Fun Conversation Lives. Welcome to the podcast thank you. I'm so excited to be here so I'm excited on multiple fronts first of all we got to meet in person we both spoke focused global leadership summit about a month ago as we're recording this and I just gotTa tell you Liz I was blown away by your talk absolutely absolutely blown away first of all just by your vulnerability and sharing your story and you know sometimes when people get on big stages like that they feel like they have to position themselves doesn't make themselves look like really cool and like you right out of the gate. You're like I'm just going to blow all that out of the water and just tell you the worst moments of my life which is so oh great in encouraging so I'm thrilled to dive into this book but before we jump into the book could you tell us a little bit about you about Saco designs signs and kind of your background yeah so as mentioned my name is Liz work in Bohannon and I am the CO founder and CEO of a socially really conscious fashion brand called Saco design so I moved to Uganda almost a decade ago as a recent college without a plan Dan a job but I did have this journalism degree and this desire one to build relationships and community. I I all through college had said I was really passionate about issues that was facing women and girls living in extreme poverty and conflict in post conflict zones but had this kind of come to Jesus moment where I realized even though I was intellectually really interested in that. I actually didn't have a single friend. That was a girl that grew up in that context and that made me super uncomfortable. I was like okay. If you're going to keep you know being quote unquote passionate about this thing your life needs to reflect it a little bit more unique a community and you need relationships relationships and you need friendships that are reflective of that and so. I moved to Uganda quit my first corporate job as you can imagine my parents were super excited about that and move to Uganda without got a job but I had this journalism degree that I had just earned android just traveled the country asking questions and following leads and building relationships and long story a long I that an incredible group of young women who were in between high school and university had just graduated from a pretty academically rigorous selective high school program but they couldn't afford to continue onto college in Uganda. There's a nine month gap between high school and college and so all of a sudden this kind of big. Meta issue of women girls living in extreme poverty became really focused like twenty five women who could go to college and become leaders in in their community but we need to figure out a way to bridge this gap and so I started a charity and then for a variety of reasons shut it down and became really convinced that we needed to you create sustainable dignified marketplace solutions for some of the world's most interesting problems in the night started a chicken farm and that failed old and then I designed a pair of strappy funky sandals and kind of figure out how we could make them and cobbled together a very rudimentary supply chain and in manufacturing system and basically promised three young women in Uganda if they made these handles for the next nine months that they would go to college the next fall and came back home to the US and it started selling sandals. Even though I had zero interest in business or fashion and ten years later that's still what we're doing. We've got a staff of about over sixty full time employees and Uganda we've create opportunity for over one hundred thirty six young women to continue onto university through our work study program in Uganda and now we have scholarship ship partners in Ethiopia and we work with fairtrade artisans all across the globe and then the products are all sold actually here in the US through a network of primarily female social entrepreneurs lures who are selling the product sharing the SACO story and earning an income for themselves and building their own social businesses and that is what we're up to okay all right on episode two of my no. I'm kidding. That was amazing. Though is incredible incredible so I WANNA I WANNA go back to those early moments of your your journey. I mean basically your story is a story of I tried this. It didn't work so I tried this but there was something driving that in the beginning and the title I love this book is beginners pluck first of all. I love that title Word Pluck. We don't use the word enough. I'm like a secret mission with this his book to do a lot of things but one of them the secret part is like I just WanNa Bring Clark back into modern lexicon if you look at it but if you look at Google so you can see like trends over time and it'd be funny if pluck all of a sudden spiked in twenty nine thousand something God i looked it up before the book got out into the Universe and took a screen shot of like here's where PLC is today just with the wild hope and dream that like a year or two from now I can visibly on Google see a spike in workbook. That's awesome all right so let's talk about because we hear about beginner's luck rate and you talk about pluck. Let's talk about that. We're what does the word pluck mean. Dow Well. We all know the verb black right so pluck your eyebrows plucked chicken pluck a Guitar Guitar but the Noun Pluck means spirited and determined courage I love but it also sounds like what it means right when you say that someone's like plucky lucky. There's like a vibrancy a boldness to the word that I just love but the play on the play on words is actually there's multiple things that go into it one is that my journey of coaching and teaching primarily other women but entrepreneurs to to grow and scale their businesses says something that I noticed specifically that women do and I will say that the book is not written just for four women and actually really passionate about that and really believe that more men need reading books. I really enjoyed it by the way just as I mean. It felt so relevant to me. It did not feel like you're writing just to women so a lot of men in assigning line at that we're like. I'm buying this book for my wife or my daughter into every one of them. I looked them in the is one of my great. I hope she loves it. You should read it before you give it to her. It just because it's written by a woman doesn't mean it's four women exclusively but that being said I noticed in a lot of coaching entrepreneurs specifically women did do this thing we would invite women who were crazy successful in their business just killing the game with sales with building their teams and invite them to a call or speak on stage in a lot of times they would start out with this thing where they would say you know. I think I really just got lucky and women tend to do that. They tend to attribute their success to external factors. Were actually men are more likely to attribute their success to internal like I got it because I'm awesome and so from the beginning of our business. We have this rule when anybody nobody teaches. It's like you cannot use the word luck I don't want. It's not attributed to let because I'm I'm seeing what you're doing and that my friend is pluck like you're putting yourself out there. You're iterating failing. You're getting back up there. You're setting huge goals and then you're figuring out how to make them into these digestible. Achievable Chunks like that is pluck so a saying at our company has become who who needs luck when you've got pluck and really valuing this idea of pluck over overlook the next thing is that the concept of beginners pluck is because the whole concept of the book is really reframing how we think about being being a beginner how we think about the stages of learning. I know in my own career I have just wasted so much time and energy bemoaning that I'm a beginner. I don't have the right connections. I don't have the right degree. I don't have the right experience of how am I going to be successful and I. I had this moment several years ago where my entire world rolled kind of upside down and I realized Oh my gosh the reason that you've actually had the success that you had wasn't despite the fact that you were a beginner dinner in all of these areas. It was actually because you were and really saying like Oh my gosh this is like it felt like this magic like discovery and and then wanting to get really intentional honestly I for myself going through and saying what were the things that I did in the early days as a beginner just naturally because that's what beginners naturally do that now that I'm ten years into running this company you know that now has investors and we've got employees on four continents and all of these things that ice is. I've stopped doing that. I think are actually harming me and my ability to lead and be creative and take risks and so the book is really about going through and I've have developed fourteen of those principles that these are the things that I think beginners naturally do better than experts so if you're a beginner congratulations you you just have to know that like you've got this magic sauce and kind of own it and be intentional about it. If you're an expert or if you you're on the road to becoming an expert that's great to but here's how to intentionally channel that inner beginner and can get back to being a really curious question asking iterative creative leader that I really believe is going to help you become more effective in the long haul channel your inner beginner. It's agreed freeze to all all of these. All you speak in bumper stickers. I love that so i WanNa talk about just a couple of chapters that actually the first handful of them 'cause you said there are several but the first thing that really struck out to me is the chapter called own your average and what does that mean. It's not listened. That's not advice right that we hear FBI. We tell people here. You're so special you so unique. There's you know there's never been anyone like you. You're and you're saying no your your average. You are right and it's not exactly what people wanna hear but it's so experience to me yeah. This was by far probably my favorite and absolutely the most intellectually challenging chapter two right because here I am trying to write this book inspires and creates freedom and gets people to create but in order to do. I felt like I could not authentically do that. Without laying some groundwork work and the groundwork is the exact opposite of what everyone else is saying that like to your point. You're so special and the reason it felt felt so important for me to deal with this right off. The Bat and to kind of say like first principle is going to be hard to swallow. You're probably average is because I have seen seen firsthand in myself and then with thousands of people that I've been coaching to run their own businesses. How this narrative of like yours so so special. You're smarter than you think you are in your you know stronger you know is actually affecting people and here's what I've I've seen todd. It either affects people in one of two ways one. They believe the narrative. They're like Homo. Okay I'm special. I'm a little bit above average and I'm and I'm smart and I'm kind of inherently good at everything that I try and I've got this like inherent talent and when people believe that I don't believe it actually empowers them. It actually creates it's a sense of fear in anxiety and people to leave their above average and believe that they're special that we have been told man. You're so good at everything that you try the actually start to act out of fear and anxiety because they're like okay. I'm seen as special. I'm seeing is above average seen as talented and smart. I don't WanNa do anything anything that is going to cause me to lose that identity or 'cause anybody to question this inherent identity that I have so they start only saying yes to stuff that they know they'll succeed seat at that they'll excel in they start playing it really safe and ultimately the demise of being a creative of an innovator of being a leader is that you start playing it safe and becoming a lot lot more concerned with protecting your ego and your image than you do about what you're creating out in the world so that's if you believe the narrative if we're doing our job and telling people are special. They believe that's what's happening on the other side. There are people that just frankly don't believe won't ever believe it. They're like I don't that doesn't resonate with me. I'm not I don't think I'm super smart have hidden talent above average or super gifted and what it does is it makes those people go and it seems like being special is really really important. It seems like like I need to believe that I'm special before I can go out and do something really really special. I'm never really going to believe that in so I guess I'm just GONNA I'm. I'm left behind. I'm UN UN special below average person who's GonNa live in special below average life. in in special must be this requisite that being extraordinary must be a requisite to living an extraordinary life and so at the plate that you're spewing this narrative and people believing ed or kind of screwed and people that don't believe it or kind of screwed. We gotta go like well. We'll we'll we'll. Maybe maybe we've got the narrative wrong in the facts. Are you know this is like math. It's statistics. You're probably pretty average like that's how his work like. You might be above average. You might be on that right side. Hi Tale of the Bell Curve but the but you might be you might be below but statistically speaking you're probably somewhere in the middle and I believe that if we can just get over the lake inspirational self-help Mumbo jumbo that's actually causing people to like stay in their heads in psych themselves out all of that energy we only have a finite amount of energy energy can't be created or destroyed and so if we can just get over it and say okay probably average never really. GonNa figure it out. There's no actual bell curve that. Every one of the world is measured upon if I can just stop pontificating about that and comparing myself and figuring out in my special am I not how am I special and just say probably probably pretty average all of a sudden you have this world of energy that then you can redirect to just creating and doing when you are not afraid of being being seen as average because you were the first to say I'm proudly owning my average. All of a sudden you are a lot less terrified of trying and failing. You're a lot unless cared about putting yourself in the room where you're not the smartest person where you might look a little bit down where you might be a little bit clueless because we've all known all along. I'm not special. I'm average. I'm learning earning and so we start to take on new risks. There's a new freedom for exploring in four and we all know that that's how we create and that's how we innovate is when we have that treat him and the other thing that did for me I think was I believe that we are often terrible judges of our own work terrible judges of the quality of our own work and so we're sitting often thinking something well. That's not acceptable. I'm not going to put that into the world. That's not something that's worth sharing with others. Meanwhile other people are seeing it saying that's actually really good like I wish he would but when you own your average you're like we. I'll put it out there. It doesn't matter like it's probably going to be average and you put it out. That's really really good right and I think that sometimes like you said it gives us the freedom to innovate and to explore be curious to ask questions and all all those things but I think also it gives us this the courage renaming the courage just the will to put stuff into the world because you're like well. This is probably not going to be that exceptional anyway anyway so I'll just put it out there and see and then sometimes it resonates and you allies. Oh maybe I actually have something to say more than I thought I did. Absolutely absolutely I love that thought and then when you get feedback on it good. You're like this is awesome. I'm GonNa keep going when you get feedback about how it could be better. You're a lot less defensive right because you're like Oh. I didn't put this out there knowing it was perfect extraordinary work that no one can touch and it's the gold standard. I put it out there knowing like it's there's probably worked to be on the thought this idea and now all of a sudden icy feedback. Is this like gold mine of like. Tell me what you think. I can like mine that for for for these gold luggage of like. Maybe that could get better here. Maybe I could clarify the messaging here. That's an interesting idea. You also are more okay with saying like No thank you just got to actually not my vision that might be your vision for the work but that doesn't resonate with my vision for it and just kind of like de Shaming and d like e going. That's the word the the whole process but yeah I love love of that that takeaway of just like put it out there like what kind of I think oftentimes when I talk about this in this chapter I think oftentimes we get insecurity visit another hard thing to tell people. They're like. Don't say that to me. We get insecurity. People like just really insecure about this and I love digging in and saying like are you insecure or do you actually have kind of this over inflated ego around it like what what kind of Ego Maniac am I that I think that if I if I put something out into the world it has to revolutionize industry it. Has You something that types like like millions and millions of people and everybody has to love it and it's just like who do you think you are like when you own your average. I think you're a lot more likely lean to say It's okay like if this positively benefits five people if they're five people whose lives are whose family whose businesses are positively impacted by this truth by this project by whatever it is then like job well done. I'm person and I helped five other people out like that's awesome like I don't need to come onto every scene revolutionizing it and being the most excellent most awesome and I actually believe believe that when you have that spirit you're more likely than to go on to create something that does do that that resonates with hundreds of thousands of people and it creates an amazing impact intact because the spirit that you created it out was like you're worth it you one person who might be impacted by this. I'm writing this for you and if it's only is for you then like my time and energy was worth it completely agree okay so that leads into the second topic. I wanted to talk to you about which is another. The one that I think is very counter cultural advice for people well. There's let's face. All of the stuff up in the book is pretty counter cultural in terms of what we typically hear out there but you tell people to dream small. Don't dream big dreams small. All you mean by that so I love big dreams. I wouldn't put that out. There and I want to say that there's something really beautiful. I I have a whole chapter in my book called. Stop dropping wow and that's really about creating space for your big dreams and to really like visualize them and dream about them and get excited about. I am before you kinda come in with the how and figuring that out the problem is I have met thousands of people again. It's really just observing like leaning in and getting really curious. Korea like how's this narrative affecting people and what I have seen is that the dream big narrative that is so ubiquitous in our culture right now is actually creating again fear anxiety in this analysis paralysis you either have people that are dreaming these huge dreams which is awesome awesome but then they're paralyzed because they have no idea where to start so they have this like big dream. That's occupying all of this emotional energy for days months weeks six years but they don't know how to act on it and that actually is not a healthy place to be because they're waking up every day and whether or not they recognize it. They're like partaking in this bummer narrative word of which is like. I have this big dream but I don't have the tools I don't have the resources on how to start and then every day that they exist like allowing this dream to occupy brain space but not doing anything about audit. It's really demotivating and then they usually start to to you know after so long as saying you. WanNa do something and not doing it. You subconsciously kind of start questioning your own integrity like your ability your own will your own capabilities and that's not healthy. The other thing people do is they don't have a big dream and they spend all of their emotional energy like beating themselves up about the fact that they don't have this big dream. It's like someone's telling you to dream big but like how how do I get the big dream. It puts us back into this posture the luck posture of like. I guess I just wait. I wait to get the vision the dream have this one conversation that sparks this huge Revolutionary Lucien airy big idea and I have just really come to believe that if you are in a place if you're already dreaming big dreams breaking them down into you know action plans and steps in iterating and evolving great like you don't need to dream small that's fine keep dreaming big and and making it actionable small steps but if you're someone who's feeling a little bit stuck wondering how you get the big dream wondering if your dream is big enough to even act on it in the first place the hope of this is to just give people permission to say like small dreams. James Matter and actually small dreams have a shocking power of catapulting us out of waiting in integrating because when you take a big idea and you actually make it as small as it can possibly go the really interesting thing that you do. Is You remove all excuses you get it so small that you're like the only reason I wouldn't be able to act on this in the next twenty four hours is if I just simply don't want to and at that point then you have to ask yourself like you don't care about this big dream. Just admit it and move onto the next thing. Let's let's be done with with the little charade the other thing that it does for people that have these small dreams as it just gives them permission to treat them like the sacred beautiful gifts that they are and to say like you are enough small dream. I'm GonNa give you the time and the attention that you actually deserve. Deserve instead of waiting for you to evolve into this big dream because I actually think what happens as we get a small dream. We Act on the small dream we accomplish. There's something we learned something we even if we make a mistake and we fail the next time we're like okay dreaming just ever so slightly bigger taking the next step the next evolution and that actually creates the momentum that builds the type of people and Cultures and habits that actually get us dreaming really big beyond our wildest imagination but we oftentimes we can't start there. We gotta start like everybody else. Small Dreams be faithful to them and then allow the kind of big dream to morphine hyphen in innovate and iterative from there the love that I feel like we can do like an entire podcast series with you. We could just do like a dozen episodes episodes with Liz Foregin Bohannon Great. This is incredible so good such good stuff and we've only scratched the surface of the book we talked about the first couple of chapters but so good what people need to read. Your Book Beginners Pluck What Next Steps or advice you have for burgeoning plucky flunkies out there which by the way also like at the leadership summit. I was watching your backstage and I was like she named her tribe plus. That's so amazing. That's so great lake. Are you applying up. You're a plucky plucky plucky tonight. That's so good buggies unite together. You know it's so fun and seeing people who are reading the book and now self identifying as fluffy's is like it just makes let me unreasonably happy. It's so fun because I do think that that identity of I'm a plucky I get it done. I try fail and by the way I have a community. Yeah people supporting me. is really fun. Okay I didn't I now. I forget the questions about what next steps advice you. The person WHO's out there and they're kind of this splinter of an idea in my mind. I wanted to get moving on what you think they need to do next. I would it it will probably depend on what stage they're in and I really wrote the book those fourteen principles. I don't overtly say this but they're kind of in order order there in order of like where you are in the process so everybody has to start with own your average. I absolutely believe that that is a psychological reset that we need to have in order to to move forward in a healthy way then we start with like dream small because that is really intended for the person is feeling superstock that feels like they have an idea but they don't know what their first steps are and then throughout the book. You'll kind of see it progresses to you might be in the stage. There's a chapter called making and keeping your promises so that's for the person who's in the stage. Where it's I've been waiting. I've been researching. I've been prototyping. I've been super curious and asking questions and I've kind of pivoted innovated and innovated on my idea for a couple of times. You're eventually going to reach a place in your journey where it's like okay. We're done tinkering. Folks were Dunton Green behind the curtain at least like you gotTa. Get your idea out there. You GotTa as a mentor of Mine Seth Godin would say you got to ship ship it right. Get it out there. Start getting feedback. Make a freaking promised has tell somebody about it. IMPLICAT- somebody in your dreams I give an example of I actually write contracts for myself there between me myself in. I like like I write a contract. I put it on my wall so taking promises really seriously so it really I think actually kind of depends on where in the process you are in and I really wrote the book in a way to kind of hopefully help somebody be able to chronologically pin themselves hope that someone reads the book in there okay. That's helpful. That's really helpful. I WanNa do that better and then they get to a point in their book that okay. This is where I am right now. The reader can kind of vision themselves in my narrative of here's where I was with my idea and they can say like I think I'm at this point right now and it's time for me to take the leap or I need to step back and just start. Y give myself time to dream into while my idea. I need to get more curious. Yes I need to let go of how I think. I'm going to accomplish this in be willing to really totally pivot or completely break what I thought was the answer and start start from scratch and build something with the new information that I have so that was really the hope that I can meet people wherever they are kind of in that journey because what your next step will be of course this is determined by who you are and where you are and what stage you're kind of idea or dreamer venture is in fantastic. Liz is has been such an amazing conversation when you've added so much value. Thank you for taking the time to be with us. Where can people go if they want to find out about you or about secret designs and all the things in your world yeah so my company it is called SACO. It's spelled S. S. E. K. O. Designs and you can find us on the interwebs at SACO DESIGNS DOT COM on social media at the same name and then I am over. I'm most active on instagram. Which is I'm just at Liz Bohannon over there and then if you WANNA learn more about the book and upcoming things. We've got a book doc tour actually that we are launching this month so we're going to do a seven eight cities will be in Seattle Portland. La Denver Kansas City Austin Dallas End Minneapolis. If you're in any of those cities head over to sacred designs DOT COM and you can go to the two or page and learn about tour dates and we would love to see you there is awesome will lose Bohannon. Thanks so much for taking the time to be with us today. Thank you so much. I love what you are out in creating in the world and such such an absolute honor intrigue ticket to small part of it today. There's always thank you for listening. If you like this episode make sure you subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts or check us out at accidental all creative dot com slash subscribe remember France cover band still change the world. They'll be a cover band music blind. Your Voice of we'll see next targeted the doctor.

Liz Foregin Bohannon Uganda Liz SACO Todd Henry US tigers foregin Bohannon Diane Google Liz I FBI Dan brandon noah founder anxiety DOT COM Dow
Ep. 99  Machining a Successful Product for 160 Years, with Howard Smith

Swarfcast

38:09 min | Last month

Ep. 99 Machining a Successful Product for 160 Years, with Howard Smith

"Go back a hundred years. There were probably sixty seventy eighty or a hundred block manufacturers in America. Go back down thirty-five forty years. There were probably Thirty other lock manufacturers making similar things go back five years. It's all changed in the last five to ten to fifteen years. Now. There's only a handful of lock manufacturer in America. And what would be the plus 5 this is Wharf cast I'm no grass today show is part one of a new season in which we're talking about companies that produce their own products Our Guest is Howard Smith owner and CEO of Wilson Bohannon a 160 year old padlock manufacturer. Looking for a screw machine rotary Transfer Machine or CNC machine graph Banquets. Got you covered when you're buying any used machine you're taking a risk. So it's important to buy it from someone who knows their stuff and it was going to give you a straight information about what you're buying graph Pinkard is a family-owned firm that's been dedicated to selling great Machine Tools to the turn Parts industry for 75 years. It specializes in the top multi spindle Brands including index shutter gildemeister tornados CPS, Acme and Wickman. They also sell a variety of other types of used equipment such as CNC Swiss CNC turning centers and parts washers machine tools are complicated. If you're going to buy one, you should go to people who are knowledgeable and committed industry. Learn more at www.concur.com. That's w w w f f e r t e Dot-com I am honored to be with Howard Smith owner and CEO of Wilson Bohannon in Marion, Ohio Wilson. Bohannon is one of the most significant padlock companies in the world. Probably the oldest one in the United States a hundred and fifty five years old as this month new season starts that is talking about products in Machining and companies with products. I thought that this would be a great place to start Wilson Bohannon has had their own product for literally a hundred and fifty five years. Normally when you think of normally when you think of a product with a company you're thinking of something pre-owned new something that they're you know, getting off the ground telling the world about so this is interesting because we're in to talk about how you sustain a product how long You remain relevant for so long. So Howard the first thing I just want to learn a little bit about Wilson Bohannon. I'm sure we're going to it'll be fleshed out a little bit more as the podcast goes on and then I want like the, you know, five minute story of your life. So first of all, give me a quick scoop on what Wilson Bohannon makes and then we'll break into bit of the history of the company. Okay, we're brass padlock guy. That is the components are brass or stainless steel with brass and steel or stainless steel Shadows. Okay. So are you saying that all of these long walks are open by a key or are some of the locks like combination or we may keep a box keypad locks. So only on a key or the key off. What's you know what building? She only locks the tech keys not anything else. We also make blocking devices for people Beyond just thinking Cadillac's but in the panel a Karina Wilson and unlock Amex key pad locks. Okay. And is this still like the main product the bread and butter that makes you know most of the money for the company. I shall we start out making it power locks for the railroads and 1860 hundred sixty years ago pad locks for the railroad railroad slot for switching devices for for rail cars and things like that song and the turn of the century the rails consolidate in there were less railroads. And so we turn our focus on utilities and heavy industry. So their daily make product for mostly Utilities in America electric co-ops. I want the transportation industry for government for the military. I think where where you have a product that's needs it has a variety of weather conditions whether it's freezing cold dead. It's under storms water, you know or whatever zoo that has a harsh environment with animals and things like that to make products because you're all brass and stainless steel. Okay, so you took it out for me. I just was expecting originally. I was thinking of you know, like something you put on your Foot Locker or you're just something small a bicycle Walker, right? We make we make a lock that's anywhere from an inch in the quarter wide 2/2 inches wide. It would be anywhere from a 7/8 ask when they Claire's lap top level block body to the shackle tight here offers Hiatus. So we also make a cable lock it goes anywhere from you know, a couple of inches till maybe many feet the wraparound something to secure something to whatever you're trying to secure something something fixed how how hard are these locks to break or you know take a take a cutter and just just get through it well, Depends on what you want. You can be, you know different levels, you know know there's there's a lot less so much security you want to you know, what something that's a glorified seal. You know, or you want somebody to trace it just took it has a computer chip in the key in the lock which we sell. Okay, so that's what you want to spend and what your needs are usual requirement to me on a utility situation where you're telling someone not to long to bother this so leave it alone because it's secure that catalog it's already telling someone that I need you can't get in. We have a shroud at that why you can't cut through? Okay and a shackle that way I can cut through in the steel team. That's where that you can't cut through. What if somebody I mean you see in the movies somebody comes with like a gun and then they just like shoot the lock or whatever is that can you do that or run some sure why when you're doing that was one of the most great advertising with Master, they actually basically shot, you know gun to a padlock off. And what's your basically doing is collapsing the mechanisms of the casing around the key Barrel you can't get in so but you can't open it either. Okay, interesting. We phased out with a customer years ago. It took a magnum rifle to whatever power locks and do the same thing and we wound up business because cool cool. So in this account, so what you're going to spend, you know, nobody's want to send $5 or do you want us off after Unity to want to spend a hundred fifty? Okay, and you you have locks of all those okay, we have a little profit has a computer chip in the key and the lock off to each other you can change and buy a a cell phone anywhere in the world the combination and they can talk back to a base. I see so it's a combination of like mechanical and electronic projects and this day and age it's not just going to be mechanical. So okay Wilson Bohannon 155 years ago * 64 years. 660 because it's 1860 1860. That is true. I don't I don't know how I got a hundred fifty-five. I'll have to redo the intro or something else that you're finally talked about it and yet so when Wilson Bohannon started the company he came up with a bunch of patents correct twenty pounds twenty pounds and this was the time when it was sort of the golden age of patents. It was it was an 1870s in the 1930s. That was the club called the Golden Age of America with the manufacturing with no restraints no taxes. No, you know government regulations and was pretty much entrepreneurial Spirit, you know on steroids. I see so it was a great time to start a company with a product West so then they started building the company and this this was seven generations ago you your wage Managing of my two daughters are the seventh generation of ownership in in working the company. Okay, and how did you get involved in the company Wilson? Bohannon is not your great-great-grandfather. It's my wife's great-great-grandfather. Okay, most of the Hannon more 1829 in Montpelier Vermont, you know starts out in Baltimore Maryland with another person and then eventually moved to New York in nineteen sixty whether some taught in a shed behind their house starts the most Manitowoc County building one box. I marry my wife and a name in the early seventies and started working in the comedy and they all early 70s also and that's where I've been for forty seven years, very interesting. So overall this time over three hundred and sixty years locks. I mean on the on the face of it you feel like a lock is sort of a commodity product. There's a lot of competitors job. There are some competitors. I know it's not a commodity product but on the face of it is and I want to know how the product stays relevant so long overtime. How has the lock changed? And how has it stayed relevant. Do you you have some locks on you right now? I do I do. Okay. Are these like the most modern ones you have or what? What are they just would be a picture that was our main product. Wow, seemed to the back to turn off. That was the first product right there. And I was a rare all at all. Her locks were cast Okay cast yes meaning when you've already for Metropole. You put the component parts of the walk and then you pulled it off the top plate. Okay. So that was that we made deaths 1962 probably by the 19th third or something like blinking lights off. Honestly change a mirror to change them. Because we're so malleable casting coming and there was there was a railroad mayor was was that a double dinosaur was a major role about and my wife's birth father Mister Wilson, I hadn't way came through Marion on a trip to remember the friendliness of the people in America. So that was recently moved to Marion, but we started out now today we we screwed our boxes. So they are lots are all made it out of the Extrusion. So something like like that is an extrusion. Okay? That's that's hold it hold it up a little better fast extradition. Okay, material what material is it? It's all graphs and Brass is about 60% copper by 40% This is name and about 1% of what? Okay, so crass off the author make blocks like this is it came a lot. For example, you get all different kinds of shape was to wrap around for people that have, you know, secure things other trailer or something. Right reminds me over or like a bicycle lock or right and we also have a shrouded. What does that mean the shrouded padlock meters and there's a house in around that catwalk. Okay. So you unlock the Tri-State the side of this up here the lock body and like space inside the watch my missed route protects the Integrity of the power. You can't penetrate the padlock. Okay, what's his shrouds what's called a strap a dog. Would that one be something that you could shoot the shotgun at or what? What's the fax on it will take them off some mechanism. So you couldn't get our trade couldn't get into it. But obviously would be mine functional after you shut it with a bullet or something, but you wouldn't penetrate this. We also use a splitter chain around this also what makes it even more secure. Wow, that's a lot of bad. So chemo external box also make it Archangel Corp a black. We're we're low, but the mechanism comes up, you know, one of those standing radio. So we also have a nice sleep or can watch their wage. Show you this is a nice recording everything, you know think so. What you do is you take this is a padlock. Okay by the cheek and Ricci so you can take this clock and found a door mechanism. You can put it in a trailer mechanism and then you can have you know, G Integrity By Priority machine is put in the system back inside the catalogue you can pull it out. You'll lose a key or something with Richie. So you protect the Integrity of that white Christmas, you know having to compromise is someone still has your keys and you need washed and take her to it. And we also for the blind notes on on the panel box. Also, so often has a blind code on the top of the lot we can make it say what it says. That's the sad part records will indicate that we can repeat that to that given more walks, but that was saying combination. Okay. I'm very interesting. I mean so you say they have like computer chips and stuff and it would all this time it stayed relevant keeping it mechanical the basic of birth. Catalog has a heart of our product which can but you and Innovations like Bluetooth so you can you can you know, get Bluetooth can talk to the catalog, you know are affect computer chip can talk to the padlock off. So you have three calling you to trigger to the product but it's still relevant to be a mechanic but in the end or all these locks, they still have a key that goes in them versus like just a computer code that will crack it right like when we sell our product quality in Turlock and they want to make sure that it made her mouth shut off power is used somewhere because they want to make sure that when that power goes out how I always work. So let's mechanical interesting. So there's always a used for something mechanical when you have a mortgage or rental or hotel room when you have you know, this all your car and your wife is or you bring up to the but the door mechanism that opens and closes that door. Yes mccan true. It's very interesting job. I don't think things can be compromised know that can be compromised. You can as a lot better deal with Madness, you could compromise the magnet you can also compromise and people going to hack into, you know, the dish next and they can be compromised. You can also those those are those are flaws and those things were mechanical key is a key and once it up and unlocked prior trying to you know, structure very interesting. Yeah, I was in a way that the analog the physical as a durability that just some computer code doesn't have an age when you're developing these locks. You have a significant R&D Department in the company, correct? Yes, sir. How often do you develop a new product or even an A variation on a product continuously? It's continuous product improve with all the time. We're always looking for new ways to enhance our product it all the things we do so we thought Aromas to our customers, I mean we start with a basic padlock. Yeah the cable walk which that's another the other shroud. So it goes having housing around the padlock. The out of computers are like what is their customer one song as we go to trade shows you go to ten to fourteen year we're going with windows are competition building. What is your customer want? The customers come to us because they know most adults something for them. Whether it's a an irrigation system out west. Well, they want to look close the irrigation system clean developing Hemlock to once they close it. It's off your engagement. It comes down on whatever, you know controlling and it shuts it off just because they close it our main go-to when we when we first got out of the gasoline and so the auto club Standard Oil and people like that came to us and said we don't discount. It has to be in the ground and you cannot mix Lennon unleaded gas together swiftly design is Jackal it had a loop in it off. When you went down about three feet into the ground to cover off and try the lock the housing or unlock the house and head have a loop. So it did that after the fact, you know for the solar we are the couple people come to and say I have an idea of my son needs. I have a need which you develop something for us with many many times. So so that's great that you don't necessarily have to come up with the oh, I think people might be wanting this people come to you and they tell you what the demand is and then you come up with the product for them. And then after that you have this new product that you can sell to other people, correct? Yes, sir, because Machinery has here can really make about any kind of like men in the world and our machines or Blackjack Knology, you know, we have machines that make I want to Parts relax and lock bodies that we have these machines that are C&C and we can actually make various kinds of competitors locks on our home. He's also and you it's all vertical integration there. Everything everything is made in Marion, Ohio. Yes, there's often wrong. All from raw material. Then you assemble it and label it everything. Yes, sir. We do it all one location at 40,000 square-foot Facility by 70 Associates or keep them by 2 in the morning till midnight five days a week. Wow, why do that versus outsourced? Even if you just Outsource it in the United States, like I know one of the things that sets you guys apart from that people is that for many companies is that you are made in America, but couldn't you sometimes maybe make things more cheaply by Outsourcing it to somebody else maybe a specialist in a certain kind of art. We lose that product Integrity. We every every lock going to our machines every hour components are taking off the machines. No one has the quality in the tens of thousands off big deal. We're known for quality. And when we haven't you don't think you don't think somebody else could could do it as as well as you oh surely coach for that might have been made sure way to cook but we know what I'm doing and we can protect that, cuz we're a job shop because we make products to order some going to want something that we make it to their order. Okay, so you consider yourself a Job Shop, that's interesting because most of the time when I think of a company that has a product and a brand they're not a Job Shop, but you in a way our kind of like you have a great product, but you're also a job shop because you tailor it to your customer, right and the specific needs of our customers. So what we have our parts machine that makes component parts and a cell phone number. In terms of thousands You by 5 you Outsource of somebody makes things for you and and lots of ten thousand or a hundred thousand component parts. We can say someone wants something specific design. We can design a machine to run ten a hundred thousand of those and we can assign that to fit a certain Cadillac motor specifications and we can make a hundred we can make a thousand but when you buy the outsourced things you would think with the idea to keep your costs down and then you say to yourself do I have to or lots of hundred thousand or a hundred thousand to get the best price when you off of a shop like ours they have a quality CNC machinist. We can take that and make a smaller lots have less inventory and make it a lot quicker for our our customers and it's really big you do have like for instance. I know you have multi spindles. Like you have a tour no small tea Alpha and you have a few like, you know, ridiculous ridiculous Hydro mats that are like this best you can get I'm sure yep. I don't even want to know what you paid for it. Actually that that would be interesting to know. I'm assuming it's in the millions and has used for sure. If tool so these are you sure you are mass-producing some parts? We are sure because there are maybe six different lock sizes and there's variations of those locks sizes. Okay, and there's we have fifty or two hundred varieties of gentleness. So when you're so small guy in the room, you have to have a lot of product array for people because you eat till they voice a lot of major players, you know, don't don't want to you know to get into it. So we have a variety of products. I said you consider yourself a small guy. I think so. Yes. We are we are ordered 70 Associates making you know over 5,000 pound walks a day. So yes, it's we're a small guy. What about what about the competitors? Like Master Wok. How many are they making a day? Oh hundreds of thousands hundreds of thousands or hundreds of times a week do a day for sure and are they doing like more customized stuff for customers coming to them and giving them quote unquote jobs as well or they more into the commodity stuff. They are there in the Commodities are the ones that sell your Home Depot senior Lowe's Thursday ones that build, you know, when Distributors massive amounts of profit, you're not you're not shipping your products to Lowe's we tried well to try to Home Depot the early nineties and that really was off the nest we found was successful for us. That's that's a lot of areas like math through the American Lock. Okay. So that's your that's one of your main Secrets one of your main not Secrets, but I'm trying Break this down. So so far. It seems like you cater to specific customers what they need. You're not trying to tell them what they need you they come to you with a problem. And you solve that problem. So number one, you stay relevant that way number two, you have quality control cuz you're in United States and you make everything in-house. Yes, sir. Number three or doing R&D constantly trying to strive and make a better product. For sure. Sure. What else are you doing? Mm? How has this company over seven generations stayed in the game. I mean, these are great things you're talking about but it's it's really amazing how you can be making a product and remain relevant and remain successful lately our is business as good as it was in the past. Was there a golden age of birth? Mark making is now the Golden Age Upon a Time go back a hundred years. There were probably sixty seventy eighty or a hundred block manufacturers in America off back thirty-five forty years. There were probably Thirty under lock manufacturers making similar things. Go back five years. It's all changed in the last five to ten to fifteen years. Now. There's only a handful of lock manufacturers in America. How many is a handful ample would be plus five? Okay, I can make make power locks. Okay, I'm talking about not just making any locking device for making power locks. There's only a handful left of America master who was located in Milwaukee, you know, a lot of their facilities to China. They purchased the second biggest black manufacturer, you know American and they and then they may move that pretty much to Mexico. Love it. Well in Marietta is still North America, but and then you'll find each other to find companies American and masturbate great products. Okay? Yep. And we we are but we also remain competitive with those people and we also will make things that they won't do they want to take the time to make twelve or something, you know, or or five is something you want to sell in a larger watch with it or distributors in distribution networks and to the Home Depot and Lowe's and people like that. So you've tried to do that and just queuing and the early nineties early nineteen-nineties. We tried to do that. It was not successful Arnett. What about in like the twenties or in you know way back when 20s 50s you were always doing it customized or were you ever always your customized always customized? Yes. I'm over 10,000 10,000 10,000 customers, That's we have a variety of needs and people, you know in government and Military and pipelines that have the industry utilities, you know, we serve we've been watching devices and build systems for people. So if your phone number Tony and you want tens of thousands of private and you want some variation you wants things to you know, and say your utility and have a lot of electrical surrounding you they want to make sure that there's a key in Tagalog or the utilities although the electrical or utility and so we for women is records, you know, making sure that those locks do not under change. We got our whole we have maybe twenty five different G ways off of what she swallows Jewish says that was thousands of different key changes. So we're offering a variety of products for a lot of people and we have a lot of character integrity. Some of our key ways are very very unique. You also hand coming. How do you stop stealing of your intellectual property or you don't at this point you just sort of accept the fact that somebody is going to steal them bring it to China. So you have to just keep getting better and better, you know, you know what I don't understand still none of a standstill waiting for someone to catch up with you. You're always trying to stay ahead of the curve. You're always trying to be off. Amazon product group was continuously. So you do it through efficiencies the productivity Improvement you do with the finest machines, you know lock world inside our facility. You continually have green people working for you age constantly striving to prove and then build a better product every single day never satisfied exactly where we are and that's how you'll remain relevant. You put money back into your facility continuously like new products new technology new Innovations. And yes anybody can take anybody's you know, in a minute improve upon that it's how you do it efficiently and how you keep your costs down. So you may remain relevant to the marketplace what's been one of the hardest obstacles for this company over a hundred and sixty years. There must have been some dark times. Always always in the family business. You have a variety of family members, obviously and everybody had watched the video be awesome Billy or it's amazing. Yeah, and so we came to we started off, you know, Brooklyn New York in 1860. And then we have our First Act was an 1870 with a second Factor was an 1880s but The Foundry that are essentially like two hundred employees making a hundred thousand pounds God's sake devices. So we moved to America in nineteen twenty-six. Okay to be more centrally located we changed her Focus from railroads to try to always have the energy come to marry him and thay have maybe you know thirty some stockholders and those sorta so stockholders, you know all think we know that's the that's the greatest thing having most plan and a slowly we're able to buy back that stock my wife mother and Uncle were the two orders basis of family members. My father-in-law dies at a fairly young age that a 65 and they early eighties and my wife's off. Uncle guys, you know, you know five or six years later so then he died and it was by 54 years old. So I've taken over you know, like it sounds like the royal family or something and you're just not it's not as in line. Oh, you know fairly young ages. So we have been very fortunate. You know now they the Seventh Generation business usually there's multiple family members actually usually passes, you know into demise in the third generation because their family inside and outside of business, we bought all the other people out over the years and that was just my wife and my girl my daughters and myself the owners of the company. So my wife passed away seven years ago, but basically I spend my wife, you know portion of the business to go up to my daughters and myself and so there's a string bass on the business today after a hundred, you know, and sixty years in business. Okay. So yeah, obviously family challenges what other challenges what what were some of the scary times for the company cuz you know, they're dead. For sure and sixty years we started out, you know 1860s of and that we were relevant to the rear many many lock manufacturers many, you know, and then you're curious, you know, but I persevered we stay with the railroads and then the turn of the century we changed our Focus to the utilities that heavy industry. Okay. So that's that's good. We know we moved to Marin a 26 or a much smaller companies thought okay got a different line of different approach the term that it's after World War Two my father welcome aboard a submarine a CPA and is my wife's uncle and they go out and they say they will spend probably to another level but you improve the quality they improve the machinery and they also improve their focus on union meeting the needs of other customers. And so no way off things, you know, we just added an ad and they added some don't under my watch. I started in nineteen seventy-three married my wife and seventy one. We met at Ellis till College in Michigan. Yeah, I would spend by birth. Where's the Coast Guard while I finish that I came back here to the company or forty seven years later. I started out and they get the county of part were twenty-two years and now I've managed to damage the last twenty-five. So, we have a great team of people are five major officers the company have over two hundred years experience and also mohannad company. So we have a lot of loyalty. We build a culture here a family package, you know honesty and integrity and you know way of life it's very successful for a lots and lots of people we have that's how they come. It's just this has been successful through our invoice sure. What are you most worried about in the next few years and what are you most excited about feel free to answer them in order or whatever order you want? I'm excited about the opportunity to bring we're always remained a hundred percent American made for very proud to be in the Midwest and very proud to be a live in Mary. How can a very proud to be you know a plane? You know and the state of Ohio and also in the lock industry also in America and that we're hungry son American mainly always been that way. So I'm excited that a lot of industry is now focused on trying to get this back to the century employment merits and meaningful jobs and rebuilding the middle class in this country. That's that's important to me and improving our infrastructure to make us once again too strong wage. You know how player made this action in the world. So the reach the reassuring yeah, every story is happening. Have you ever considered acquiring another lock company or have you down? We have an awkward stay true to our core values to just Manufacturing in Marin, you know about seven years. So she has we grow our business through machinery and Technology but not through Acquisitions. What if she was a company that came to you and they just offered you a gargantuan amount of money. Is there no amount of money that you'd go? Oh should I have to just take this you mean I'll give you the cell. Yeah, I get I get a guy that the car is very often all the time on every kind of you know subtlety that you can imagine from people saying, you know, but no Works room to our family and I want this to be a generation. I want my grandkids right part of some day. So no, I am not interested in selling our business and I take it very seriously as all of our Associates do a million something the best product they can of the world and then we're successful, right? So it's not about the money. It's not about money. It's about how we better each other's lives building something that's meaningful and useful for for the world. And this were not for sale I best song we're proud of who we are and we want to be a generation realize there aren't a whole lot of companies in this country made in America a hundred sixty years. Plus that's that's pretty unique by itself anywhere anywhere log? And we're going to be we're going to be honored or represent a state of Ohio. You know what it's a fourth day of being American Products showcases the White House in October 5th. So we're going to represent the state of Ohio in June. So I work crowd that's incredible. So we're very proud of who we are today, you know, so this is important to us to think of all the lives we've touched think about your business, you know, the lights off while your employees, you know, having a meaningful job that person I come to work every single day we take that very seriously. And so there's one always be better at what we do and improve never satisfying and that's how it and what about what are my words? What are you worried about? I'm worried about the future of our great country. I'm worried about where we find ourselves in this in this political dialogue and the racism. I'm worried about employing all of our employees and having a meaningful job work were essential business. So we've always remained open our two best years little last two years in dog. Drink and we were on a page this year to be even better in the last two years and so at the end damage yet. Okay, I'm encouraged said we'll get this solved. Well we get on the other side of this with let's see know what life processes and you know and vaccines and things like that and people feel safe to walk about again sure to be neighborly with each other and I'm hoping that after the political process will be off that works itself out all be better for that was true Americans, you know. Yeah, I want to make is a strong country, you know, it's a great place to live and work and we're literally where the focus of the world look out for supper that's independent and free, you know, it has a free government as you know in the world and I are you exporting your locks along all over the world interesting. Yeah, my thoughts all over the world. What was something you learned last week. That was really interesting for you. I learned last week that I think there's like there's there's an attitude amongst bag. Actress there's an attitude this country despite what all the rhetoric that you watch on television. What happened last week that made you learn the I just because you finally figure out I don't think it was just baseless last because it's a compilation of a lot of things but it's constantly in reinforced by the memory of people. I talked y network with people all over the place in my industry and lots of Amazing Friends and in the manufacturing world, and I'm part of a thing called the chief exactly where their National thirty-five years and I network with authors who are very lucky. We have a uniqueness in our country of an entrepreneurial Spirit. We have a freedom to do what we want to do and that's that's what was the spirit all the time trying to survive off anything but just showing out a sweater by politicians or or anything in the world and that's what makes America great. There's no other country in the world and has the entrepreneurial spirit yet electromobility off the freedom to do we want to do and if I have rabies to machines like from your company, you know, well, thank you. They have blood to turn us from us. Thank God dead. And we appreciate that. Thank you very much. Oh good. Well that that feels good. So if anybody wants to learn about about Wilson Bohannon more they can go to they had like the best URL you can get they have padlocks. Com for their company and I really appreciate you doing this interview Howard page and uh, wish you all the best in the future. Thank you for the opportunity. You know, it's it's this is what you're doing is very very important, you know to reaching out to people, you know, and getting a variety of topics and educating people to the things that are important, you know, and maybe being relevant. It's it's a continuous process of learning and through the internet through the whole process of podcasts and things like you're doing you're educating people Howard. Thank you so much. I look forward to continuing our relationship wage. With your company and wish you all the best. Thank you so very much. Thank you for the opportunity to talk. From today's Machining world. This is a swarf cast production. If you liked this episode, please subscribe to the show and read us on Apple podcast Stitcher wherever you get out casts follow us on Facebook Instagram. And today's Machining world.com to see extended video interviews and join our mailing list. I'm Noah graph. My occasional co-host wage is Lloyd draft. Our audio engineer is Bill Steffy. Our managing editor is Ridgely done for information on advertising or to submit an idea for a future podcast follow the contact information on today's Machining world.com.

America Wilson Bohannon United States Ohio Karina Wilson Howard Smith Job Shop Cadillac Lowe Wilson Bohannon Marion 70 Associates Home Depot China Acme American Lock
Your Last Decade #9 - Liz Bohannon

The Happy Hour with Jamie Ivey

36:32 min | 9 months ago

Your Last Decade #9 - Liz Bohannon

"Hey friends and welcome to the happier. Jamie podcasts. I'm your host Jamie and I'm so glad you're here each week on this show invited girlfriend to join me and we chat about the big things in live the little things in life and everything in between happy two thousand twenty you guys. It's a new decade and I thought it'd be fun to talk to a few friends about what life was like for them ten years ago. How has their life changed? What did the year two thousand ten bring them? What is the last decade brought them? And what are they hoping for over the next ten years hello and goodbye to February January. Seemed like it lasted four ever and February. Where do they go? It's Valentine's Day and now we're into March well. Today's your last decade is with my friend. Liz Vo Hanan. You might remember Liz back in two thousand sixteen to his happy hour number seventy five. That feels so long ago and it kind of was well. Today we chat all about the fashion brand that she created ten years ago. Well actually eleven years ago. You're going to hear her talk about it. Called Saco designs. We talk a lot about this in her episode but today on the show we've talked a lot about what were some of the challenges. The last ten years have brought. What was that first year after starting the company like and then? What is she looking for the next ten years? Some of my favorite things about the show was were winless. Talked about what kept her going when everything seemed to be going wrong when it didn't make sense when they weren't getting paid you're GONNA love. What was her guiding light. Almost wide capture in the fight. Are you guys? Here is my conversation with Liz Bohannon. Hey let's welcome to the special edition of the happy hour called your last decade. Welcome thank you so much for having me. Well this has been such a fun project of ours by the way because the feedback. I've had heard the most is looking back has been so fun for people and I am someone who likes to look back. I don't want to dwell on the past by any means but I like to look back and learn and see and progress and we over here they are like we have to talk to Liz because a lot has happened in the last ten years of your life. Yes yes and I actually don't look back that much so I'm really grateful for the opportunity to do this. Good back through the memory archives in my favorite parts of writing a book was like it's crazy. How once you open up one door? It's been shut for really long time in your memory. How it can kind of late trigger other memories in. I don't know it's just it's fun so I'm grateful for the opportunity to get Tim. Reflect a little bit because I actually don't do enough of that now woken. Well speaking of Your Book Beginners Pluck which came out over. I two thousand nineteen congrats. Thank you thanks so much. That was a wild ride. I mean you're like the things that I didn't think I would be doing in the last ten years. Will your six months on the other side of it? How do you feel now? I have never done anything. I'm like I am so glad I did that in the idea. It was just so much though. Like I mean it's just like it is such a process but it was search hard work so much mental emotional intellectual Labor that goes into it. I just every time I see it and just kind of catch glimpses of it whether it's on my bookshelf for the office. I just don't really proud of it in really thankful for the experience in. I just continue to be blown away after you get this. Where when people are so generous to reach out and to share their experience to share. How and why? It touched them in inch. It's incredibly rewarding. Overly grateful while you should feel really grateful and you did such a great job at that work and so a lot of it is some of the things we're GonNa talk about today. Which is fun exciting. Because you talk a lot about the story of SACO in your book and I want you to take everyone listening back to two thousand ten now. If my memory serves me right into dozen ten you had already traveled to Uganda and begin the process of starting Saco. Mri Yes okay. Good good you're so good you do the exact launch date union. We're GONNA bury impressed with your chronology. Do a little bit of research on the phone. And I'm actually really grateful when you when you share the concept with me and I was like okay. Ten years back. I was like we'll take about ten years old and then I started doing it and I was like no leopards me about a year in into having traveled to Uganda having come up with the concept in. I'm really grateful to start there because I tell the very beginning story more and I think that It's easier to glamorize or attended for there to be some nostalgia about like very very early days when I came up with the concept in those of you don't know you bought one way plane ticket to Uganda. And I showed up and I met some amazing women and we started these Kinda crappy at the time sandals and made this really ethic promise that was like hey obey if you promised to make these sandals for the next nine months because there is a gap between school and university in. That was the problem that we were trying to solve is basically this kind of gap for limited. Who come from low income backgrounds. That are really academically. Gifted this gap between high school and college where a lot of them ended up moving back home in getting married not continuing on to university even though they want to and even other academically qualified so the challenge that we exist us all as bridging this gap right so that was eleven years ago but if we go to ten years ago. I'm like I've made the promise I said. Live Rama's that you will go to college in. I'm in the midst of then being on the other side of going. Like who crap of its. Let's go back to two thousand ten because you set it up so beautifully and guys get her book and read it. It's it's just a fabulous story as well and you've been on the Happy hour before did not do my research on that to figure out what guests whoever there's a long time ago but with my first son so I do remember that over three and a half years ago. Crazy crazy crazy. Okay let's go back to two thousand ten You have started this new thing at the time I wanNA know. Does it feel like a hobby or do you feel like it's GonNa last year or do you think this is the rest of my life somewhere between there? This point in two thousand ten we had just sold enough sandals probably by the end of two thousand nine. We told enough sandals that we were able to send Mary mercy. Rebecca T. UNIVERSITY. So those were at first three win the women that. I sat down with underneath the mango tree and Here's the deal. You may be sandals. Promise you're going to college and then move back home to the. Us In tried to start selling my car so my gosh. I didn't do that. This is really fun okay. So in the beginning of two thousand ten than we just sold enough to send those three women university in. This is the point in the story. We're we're like okay now. What's next week fulfilled that I promise but then we were at this really interesting place. We're like it work what we do what we call it a day in say like that was like a really fun. Post College Adventure. You know like we enabled three women to go to university and now I need to go get a job like you know by this point. By the way I was six years out from ever being able to pay take a paycheck from saint go so like evidently wasn't making money in two thousand into don't pretend. My husband had a fulltime job in his fulltime job was. He's a project manager will tech company and he was making money but very much so we were living off of his zero entry level salary so it already felt a little scary and a little stretch. You know 'cause I wasn't making any income in the nats when we were. Oh let's make it even more intense. Maybe Vinciguerra his own source of income. That we have we should get rid of and but it really felt like it was a crossroads. Your question about hobby your life or what is this is really interesting because we were asking ourselves. That exact question right. In this moment we were like okay. Worked THE FIRST TIME AND WE HAVE TWO OPTIONS? We can call it a day instead. I was fine or we can really dive in in say. We're doing something really special. The product is resonating people with people. The story is resonating with people. It's actually making an impact. Let's go all in and it was really the beginning of two thousand ten. We're we're like let's go all in. We were making no money. We were continuing to lose. Money is a lot of businesses in the early days. Spending a lot of money in it long cashless cycle. Actually get that money back in. We knew we couldn't hire anybody unless we could go out and raise capital and we knew no one would give money. I mean we couldn't get bank financing. We couldn't get. I mean it was just like okay. You know to like twenty something. Year olds are trying to start a manufacturing company in a developing economy. Like yeah right and Ben happens to have a skill set that is basically the exact opposite of mine and he at the same time you know. He had been working at this company in learning at time in was really enjoying business but really had this desire. I WANNA use my mind love of business. I wanted to do something in the world that I feel really proud of in. That is making an impact That I can really stand behind in in in so we were like well enough. The opposite skill set. You have this basically you wanted. Us business to make a difference in the world lakes. We just do this together. We spent a lot of time talking to other apple specifically that were married had marriages that we looked at like that type of marriage that we WANNA have ten years twenty years thirty years from now because when we first started telling people that is newlyweds. We wanted to run this company together. We got a lot of pushback in for people being like us. Not Wise. Like you're gonNA kill each other like in we really. We really wanted to you. Know He'd the wisdom but also cargo path into the process that we took what you're saying. Okay let's identify four or five couples. We love their marriage. We love their partnership and just go. Lay Out all of our cards in say. Are we dumb? Should we do it when you can actually get feedback? We came to that end of the process. Being like we want to give it a try and we don't know we know what's going to be challenging. We think the ways in which it's going to be challenging or the ways in which we want to be challenged and so it was right around this time that then with job we lost our health. Insurance we sold everything that we own because we know money to finance this trip that we wanted to go on till basically launched a brand so we sold everything that we own including a bunch of the wedding presents it. We had just gotten like this point. We've only been married for like nine months six. So much transition. Liz I it was a lot and we bought a on element and lived out of our car for the next nine months. Ten years ago I was living out of my car. I did NYC snapper co many questions about this okay so the first one is like like we hear stories like this and of course your ten years in Bravo Bravo way to go. You guys followed your dream to your heart and look at this great thing you've done but it could now have felt like that in that moment you had to have felt like this is either going. Did you think to yourself? This'll be the best thing ever. They're worse or did you think this is going to be okay or the worst like where. Where were you after? You guys made that decision. I honestly think I was like this is going to be the best thing ever or it's GonNa be a great tale of epic failure but it will be fun to share. I do yeah. We're having that perspective of someone that I really loved was Kinda lecturing me and telling me why it was a terrible idea. Opportunity costs in 401K's in you know all of this stuff and I just remember thinking like even if this fails literally what I will learn from this process and I mean everything from about how to run a business on Mike. I think running in failing at a business is probably more valuable than an MBA. Even if you don't succeed what what I'M GONNA learn out of this is GonNa be monumental and then also from a character perspective being like. I just can't envision coming out on the other side of this in not being more of the person that I want to be even if I love that And I think that that was what enabled us to have the Let's do it like even if it fails. We're GONNA come out on the other side in. I think I think honestly our marriage was the thing that felt the riskiest than everything else kind of felt like if the business fails we will learn from it. You know if we fail as entrepreneurs we will learn from it but let's make sure we don't damage at graphic that's real you know. That was the only one that actually did really kind of feel scary. And I think that's frankly why that was the only one that put out to have other people speak into it of just like us. Where are blind spots? Are we being wise in this because that was the one that felt the most like? Oh we could do something that we don't WanNa do And I would throughout the process is probably the one that we've been the most adamant about protecting like as long as we activate our relationship everything else we're GonNa learn from everything else we're gonNA COME BACK FROM IN I. I do say that in the caveat is that this story sits on a giant mountain of privilege right like I joke and say that we lived out of our car. We didn't we literally lived off a five hundred dollars a month for a year We didn't have health insurance like we slept in parking. Lots all of that is the you know the subtext that you might not know. Is that like? I knew that we were never going to be in a place where we were like legitimately. GonNa be homeless. We have enough of a social support network. We're educated in. There's things that we're like okay. Let's just put this into perspective like if everything goes wrong. We're still going to be okay. Show in recognizing that and I think seeing the case for a lot of people like reluctant living out of your car is in optional. Saying like in so for us it I dunno in some ways it was this recognition that it's like. It is a privilege that we even get to do that. In take that risk. So how do we push ourselves one step beyond what we're comfortable doing do that with the hope that We get to make the world a little bit better. Not just for ourselves but for other people too. I think that is so important that you mentioned that as well and I would imagine that that was kind of in your mind like you had this. We're GONNA live out of our car. We're not gonNA have traditional jobs. We're GONNA live all this and you had the soldiers for the social network like you said but you also are not trying to just change your world you've got women on the other side of the world that are in a lot of ways dependent on you for their future you have promised them in education and so. I would imagine that there was some of that that was spurring you on more than just you and Ben were trying to create this new tech company here in America whenever so that had to have helped as well. Oh my gosh I don't know had I not made that promise. Sega wouldn't exist niff-. Sega wasn't if I didn't just deeply believe in the core of my belly in these women in like. Hey if you WANNA see the world become a better place like we've got to be creating pathways for women like these women to be leaders to make change and to user voice to to to create a brighter future knowing that like. I don't have a fascinating to do that because that's not my experience. That's not my world like these women do and I just deeply believe that so many of the things that are wrong in the world will be solved by by women like this actually having the opportunity to get an education to become a leader in their community to become change makers it was. I mean we joke and I feel like ten years later that you can really let nostalgia do. Its Way with your story but there are. I mean like our some for real dark times during those first few years of just like I like what? Tell me one I guess I want to take a quick moment to our sponsors who make all of our podcast happen to this show is brought to you by stamps. Dot Com. Posted rates have gone up again. Surprise surprise you guys but thankfully stamps dot COM. Eases the pain with big discounts off the post office retail rates with Sam's dot com? You can say five cents off. Every first class stamp and up to forty percents off shipping rates. That kind of savings. It really does add up especially for small businesses since stamps dot com is completely online if saves time and it saves money to of all of our favorite things. Anything at the post office. You can do it. Stamps DOT COM. You personally print official. 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I've also been using at the end of the day because sometimes I mean my office all day. I don't drink as much water as I should. And I love knowing that when I make myself a sixteen ounce glass of water and Liquid Ivy getting hydrated two to three times faster than just water alone also. Who Doesn't love better sleep in a better mood which is part of the benefits of liquid? Iv Right now you can get twenty five percent off when you go to liquid dot com and use code happy hour at checkout. That's twenty percent off anything. You order on Liquid Ivy's website just go to liquid. Iv Dot Com and enter Promo Code Happy Hour to save twenty five percent off and get better hydration. Who Doesn't want that you guys? Don't wait start properly hydrating to day. I mean the finances. I mean literally two weeks after then quit his full time job and we lost health insurance. We could not afford to be on private health insurance like we were literally like. I said making zero dollars. The reason that we lived off a five hundred dollars a month is because we literally like. What are we GONNA do? We had several thousand dollars in savings. And that was it and we were just like trusting that something was gonna work out and there was a couple that we honestly did not even know that. Well it we're like listen in. Here's the thing that I want people to know. They were not wealthy couple in. This is why this is so challenging and inspiring to me. They're like we love. What you inventor doing we love your vision for the world in for a higher degree opportunity for these women. We want to support you. Give us your bank account number literally. No questions asked. We're going to deposit five hundred dollars in your bank account Until you tell us not to and we lived on five hundred dollars because we didn't make money for I mean it was honestly probably. I don't even know how ears in two weeks after we lost our health insurance. We are living off of this five hundred dollars a month. I got really sick and at the time. The doctor's like legitimately used the word leukemia. In where like you're white. I don't even know what it was. Your White Blood Cell Count. Everything was like bananas. They did know going on for probably five days. We thought had leukemia. We didn't have health insurance and we were like we're literally going to be medically bankrupt. Two weeks that I knew this turns out. It was a dormant. Malaria in hedging Nasima Japanese is if you have access to the medicine to fix it But that was like I mean. Just not having anything to feel like you could stand on. There was probably for sure says ego involved in it like before you succeed you know. It's my friends. Were getting jobs. And they relenting moded and they were going on work trips where they had company cards in like. It's fun now to say that we lived out of our car but I would be lying at the time. It didn't feel like I was disappointing. People like I was wasting my degree like I was aimless. You know had this pipe during that obviously wasn't gonNA come in. Everybody was kind of passing me up. I think was probably kneeling that I had during that time Definitely moments of light. I mean it's hard to feel great about your life when you're waking up in a McDonald's parking in your like I'm legitimately waiting outside the door for McDonald's to open so I can go brush my teeth arts of it. That are fun. And then there's parts of it that are that are really not the point being I would have given like if I wouldn't have made that promise. I promise that I really did actually think mattered and was going to benefit not just myself but hopefully others that I thought were incredibly deserving of that. I don't think I done. There's other people. Maybe they're just more true entrepreneurs like I just have a vision for this product that I wanna see the world but man. It was the stress level of being an entrepreneur. I don't know that you can overstate it. I mean times where it's just like literally. We emptied our savings our entire life. Savings to like cover shipment that went rogue because our retailers were like cancelling orders nights. Where it's like literally before you're getting ready to do payroll and your week own. Cash flow is so tight that we don't know how we're GONNA pay payroll or definitely not going to pay ourselves but then you have to show up at the office in life be like. Here's where we're going if here's what we're going to do like you know it is. Everything's good earnings good. It were like In Oh my gosh. The stress level is so enormous that for me waking up everyday in saying but it matters it matters that it matters that you made a promise in it matters. I think is what county going. We'll add a question because after you after you had the three ladies that you said Okay Awesome. We pavilion orders are graduating. I mean you're going to go to university now and you could have stopped there and you didn't and so throughout the next couple of years did you ever. When the Times got hard to ever think we've done enough like this is too hard we've done enough. We can pat ourselves on the back. Whatever that might feel like from a privileged standpoint to say we did something for for these women. Did you ever feel that way? Probably yes mike. I think I would be unaware to think that there weren't moments where I was like. I think I would be lying. If there weren't moments where in my head I just said this is too much. It's too and like in panic of just like I can't. It's too much and I think that there's a particular type of when you choose a specific way of life in it becomes too much I have trouble affording myself any grace in that. Which makes it even harder because my story can go. I can feel so overwhelmed and I think Oh this is too much in my mind. Very Nasty ungraceful voice says to me like you're an idiot. You chose this. This is your bed now. Line at nobody Are you like different than like if something happens to you right you get cancer you get hit by a car or something awful happens like right? I mean he did something to you. There's kind of the sense where it's like. You did this to your cellmate. These choices made these choices. No one feel sorry for you can be a lot harder at INC to raise your hand and ask for help when it feels like well. Everybody Else Joseph Nice stable path and they're not position of need because they did the nice. You know logical independent nextstep now. They don't need anybody to help them out now. To learn over the last ten years is that like the greatest joy of my life is saying yes to things in the needing people to step into the story with you with me and it's just like it's not like a let me invite you to my party in like at you like as a nice gesture it's like no I. I of is really big vision in order to accomplish it. I need you to be a part of it in that level of just camaraderie in gratefulness ingratitude and Co Creation. I have come to learn on. This side is like that is literally the good stuff of life. Please do not be so afraid that you miss out on it. I haven't I'm a home in the book. That's about like put yourself in positions where you have to ask for help. Like DREAM THE DREAM. That's impossible to do by yourself. Take the risks. It's GonNa require you to make the phone call because that is where you'd E in relationship in commitment creation is actually found in if we spend our entire lives trying to look like we have it all together and be Super Independent. You may do that. May Be able to pay all your bills and you may be able to do whatever is going to be sexist. Add life and it's GonNa be so lonely and there's not gonna be this energy in this collaboration in this codependency that I come to believe is really beautiful but I would be lying if I said there weren't moments in the story. We're yes I was like I'm done. I'm waiting the white flag is too much and that kind of Meta promise of like but doing work like I wake up every morning like it so hard but I really believe in what we're doing and believed that it matters in. It's remarkable what that does to the human in like what that allow the depth that you are that you can tap into in a new way when you have that well. I appreciate your honesty about that because it can be really easy Ten years on the other side to say no. This has been hard but this always been great and we've always had our I on the prize. really really be vulnerable and say you know. There's been times that this has been super super difficult. I love what you learned about. Collaboration and I think that the only way we learned that is by stepping out in having to do it. And that is so scary to some people. But you think it would not be here. You are without collaboration. And I think I think the statement you in SACO wouldn't be who you are is like yes. Obviously Seca wouldn't exist but I don't think you know there's just so much so much as humans. We have to work through in order to get to the other side and it just never ever feels good in the process in my so many people I think wave the white flag and say like it's too much I'm data. I don't WANNA I don't WanNa fail so loudly in front of people. I don't WanNA raise my hand in hand to ask for help. I don't want to embarrass myself. I don't want to set a goal and then actually fail e N. I really do feel like ten years in. I'm like in a place where I'm like. I would so much rather sale nine times out of ten but then get to experience what happens when you actually achieve but then also like understanding. Those nine times out of ten weren't in vain like those nine times out actually helped me to become the person that I got actually created me to be in. That was the tool that was used in order to get there. That's so good. And it's this is wild Liz. This is why I like looking back. Because you can't see that in a moment you can't you don't feel that in a moment and it doesn't feel like this but when you are able to look back and go okay. I remember what it felt like but now I can say what's true about that moment then when it hits again you have like this kind of this muscle memory to go okay. I felt this before. Yeah I've been here before in. Here's Rondo to be true about this. And that's not just with entrepreneurship that's with relationships than swim The whatever job he works. School parents relate everything. It makes us go. I know what this feels like. An I know what is true. I love that and I know I've come out on the other side once in aren't gonNA come out on the other side again like this is. I've I've felt like everything was failing in. This ship was sinking. Before in. You know this is. Why community is so important. I literally sat this past when I meet with my ladies. My best best friends every Wednesday night. No matter what we share lives and we're totally transparent in arm sharing about something that. I'm on I am now on the other side of and Seeing the light at the end of the tunnel end to hear my best friend. Sit around me in one of them. Just kind of stopped me. She goes do rise. It was only six weeks ago that we were sitting next. We all live next door to each other. We're sitting in my living room in. This conversation. Looked so different like I know. It seems like it's been a hard long season but it's only been like six weeks. Look like look at what you've come through and look at your perspective in to me. I couldn't even like because that six weeks where I'm having a complete meltdown breakdown. In my best friends. Living Room felt like ten years ago. You know it's like this season. It's been so challenging. Wears the light Other people get to say like all you've come out on the other side of that and I know that given enough time like there's going to be another example of beyond that moment your point being able to have that memory of going okay. You were in that really dark place in non you're on the other side like there is light at the end of the tunnel and then also being able to point other people to that as well in. It's like it's not you know we. I love the idea that it's like. I hope one of those women has the mental image of me having a complete breakdown in their living room to win. They're having the breakdown in my living room being like I remember when this this really and then she came out of it and then we rob neither side of together. That's where it really believed. The importance of of community comes into play as well. 'cause we can. We can remind one another of that. I agree so much. Okay I love looking back on your past ten years and thanks for your vulnerability in sharing with us about it. But what do you look forward to ten years and I sometimes honestly I think looking forward. We assume it's easier for people but sometimes it's not so. I don't know how that is for you. I'm going to assume with what I know about you. That looking forward is way easier than looking back so come from right or wrong and then tell me. What are you looking forward to the next ten years? I think looking forward is easier in the sense that I do it a lot. More like I'm always thinking about yours because after yeah I can be difficult. Innocent Ignites A lot of fear like fear. The unknown. We've you're still fear setting goals in setting New Vision in New Forces because you know I've got that muscle memory but it's like is still a human and the idea of failing embarrassing myself for like putting myself in a position of need or risk is still actually really. Siri to me I just got a little bit jaded because not jaded. I'm a little bit biased. Because I just got home from To Gonda where eight fourteen of our top sellers so our products are sold through. Saco fellows so these are women in their community. They are selling the product. They're styling their friends. They're earning income Off of the products that they're selling so were were building. This amazing team in Uganda. Were also building this incredible team in the United States of of women who are coming together and getting to see my two teams together. Getting to see my Uganda production. Getting to see my sales team and seeing the relationship in the joy in the connection I've just like totally on fire on fire for Frankly right now. We're in a place. Where are are you gonNA team is just freaking rocket? Like they're our executive team over there. They just run the show. They know what's up and they're really putting out the challenge to ask are we. Did our part. We build a best in class manufacturing company. We handle a lot. What do you got for really issuing the challenge here on the US side of things to kick it up into grow the fellows program and to continue to welcome new women into our community over on this side? And so I would say when I think about the next ten years. We HAVE OUR FOUNDING FELLOWS WALL IN UGANDA IN. It has the list of the first five hundred fellows that ever joined us and it's cool just as a beautiful visual dislike global team that we're creating and at the idea of getting to grow that community so that we can grow the opportunity now not just in Uganda. We work in Uganda ups Peru India so really seeing the global impact that we as a community are able to have a have me on all sorts of fire and then I think you really with the book. The process of the book was like how I know. I have this thing through. Seko that I'm like. Hey you wanna make an impact in the world. But you're not quite sure how just come along and we'll we'll give you every step for how to find community Beautiful in act so I have that in then I also recognize that. There's everybody and I don't care if you're a stay at home mom if your doctor your graphic designer like I truly believe that each and every one of us were created on purpose in four purpose in helping to teach in walk alongside encourage people in Hannah tap into that Is Is it a real passion of mine? It has developed really over the last few years I think is going to be one of the guiding actions of my next ten years of like okay. I have this journey. I learned so much a lot of what beginners clock is about is this. I think a lot of the messages that we're getting in our current culture about finding your passion and draining big are actually Rina's in their creating offensive in society in this analysis paralysis and so I just feel so passionate in on fire about helping demystified for people and encourage encouraging equipping them to go out and build their own lives of purpose impassioned impact. Well I am on that train with you so I am so excited for all. The things you are doing isn't really fun for me to follow these last couple of years and see SACO grow in your book expanded reach so many people. I love what you guys are doing. I love everything you guys are creating the mission you have in so it's finally look back Thinking about the days of living in the car rushing McDonald's now I will say getting the first breakfast sandwich off the line. They're pretty good. I'm being honest works to that. You see that this is totally random. I did you see that they have McDonald's scandal. No I should send you there. It is Liz. Thank you so much for sharing your last seeing Jamie. This is such a blast and love this concept in what you're doing.

Times Liz Uganda SACO Jamie Us McDonald Ben Liz Vo Hanan Mike Liz Bohannon Sega Tim Liquid Ivy Rama Ivy Media Rebecca T. UNIVERSITY Malaria
Episode 059: Liz Bohannon and Craig Groeschel on Beginners Pluck

The Global Leadership Summit Podcast

32:20 min | 1 year ago

Episode 059: Liz Bohannon and Craig Groeschel on Beginners Pluck

"Everything rises and falls on leadership of you. Don't know what you need to work on his leader. You know who does everybody out. The pathway to your bravest potential is striped. Will your greatest fear of you want your team to stay relevant lead your team into the unknown be great restored the puppets of what has discovered that which Hugh Love Donny I'll have to have the same style we don't all have to have the same goals but with good values and a vision everyone via leader. Hello global the leadership family. This is Paula Farris and thanks so much for finding this podcast and tuning in and I had the opportunity to serve as host for the twenty nineteen global leadership summit back in August and I'll be hosting several of these podcasts throughout the season as well for those of you at the G. L. S. and are tuning in to grow your leadership welcome and for those does that didn't attend the summit. We welcome you as well for those that had the opportunity to be at the G. L. S. and hear from some of these speakers. We know what can be a little overwhelming so we're breaking it down for you and what we want to do with this podcast is just give you an opportunity to keep growing remember. It's incremental growth day by day and one of the ways that we can do that is through this podcast. We also have another opportunity that we're going to be launching in November. I'll share a little bit more about that at the end of this episode today you're going to hear from jealous champion. Craig grow shell now if you don't think that you're a leader don't tell Craig that Craig legs to say leaders have influence and everyone has influenced points. You are a leader and today he's going to interview. CEO and founder of Saco designs Liz Bohannon if you missed her at the G. Alaska I. I don't want to give it away. Let's just say she took her speech to new heights. She is a dynamic communicator who took courageous steps to form her company if you're outside the US us make sure you look out for the GS coming near you so you can check it out yourself. You can go to global leadership dot org to find your site if you're in the US look for the team edition on Global Leadership Dot Org Slash Summit Resources Okay onward with Liz today. We're GONNA find out more about her. Journey the background behind her brand new book which it is fantastic. It's called beginners. Pluck with a P. and we're going to dive deeper into what it means to lead with your inner beginner and unconventional wisdom here we go. Let's Dive drive-in with Craig and Liz. Hey Liz crazy excited to have you on with us today. Thank you so much for taking time to do this. Interview Yeah absolutely I'm excited excited as well a little bit of your background for some people. That may not know who you are. Can you tell us a little bit about your story especially how'd you go from a journalism awesome student student in Missouri to CEO of a large ethical fashion brand and speaker at the global leadership summit. I'll tell you that the road wasn't exactly accolades straight and narrow necessarily but I started out in journalism and became increasingly interested in issues that we're facing women and girls that were living in extreme poverty in conflict and post conflict zones and so I kind of had this dream that the New York Times would hire me and send me around the world to write about these really important issues issues and graduated from college and it turns out that the New York Times wasn't super interested in hiring a twenty two year old to be an international correspondent who had never really they left the United States of America before and so I took a corporate job and I had this moment about three months and where I realize I say I'm really passionate Senate about this issue of women and girls in global extreme poverty but I don't actually have a single friend who's a girl that grew up in that context there is kind of this gap APP between what I said I cared about in my actual life and so I quit that corporate job and I bought a one way plane ticket to Uganda and I showed up really just just with the intention of building relationships and making friends I had this journalism degree but I I really showed up just to learn as much as I could and so oh throughout that process I ended up meeting incredible group of young women academically gifted top five percent of female students in the country and they were getting ready aid to graduate from High School and enter into a nine month gap between high school and university and most of them were going back home for their villages to their villages. Looking for jobs couldn't find jobs and also losing all the social support that they had gained over the last two years with other really like minded women into the organization was really Kinda. Struggling you think about how to bridge this gap for these young women that just happened to be my community at the time and so I was Kinda naturally folded into those conversations and one thing led to another another and I started a charity and then realized that we needed to be investing in marketplace business solutions to solve some of the world's most challenging problems and so started a chicken farm and not failed and then I launched a tiny little sandal company and made a promise to three young women that if they made sandals for the next nine months that they would go to college college and then came back home to the US and started selling strappy sandals out of the back of my car and that's kind of how it all started Delfa. Remember your idea in college. was you wanted to make a flip flop. That didn't do something you would make a flip flop that didn't that didn't flop naturally Greg. I was really pontificating on the really a high level philosophical problems at the general my whole life I always thought if we could just didn't flop that'd be amazing and so but you put some obstr- straps on it and created this product at that you you were selling out of the back seat of your car. Yes yes sir yeah man indeed Daewoo flipflops flop so mission mission accomplished so one of the things I love about your story is that you had kind of lofty ideas of how you wanted to make a difference in the world and and yet they were more in your heart not in your actions and you kinda closed the gap in fact. I think that's really a big party or story is is take take him. What's in your heart and moving into action. What is it that drove you to actually go and take a risk and move across the world to do something different yeah. It was exactly that Craig it was that moment in the story when I realized I had all these like big ideas and Gobi an international correspondent for a really well no news organization Asian come up with a corporate philanthropy scheme that involves millions of dollars that we can pour into initiatives that will help benefit women and girls but the thing was i. I wasn't doing anything about it because all of those either felt like external factors right like I have to wait until the New York Times notices me to hire me to send me somewhere wear and they weren't or it was just too big like it was like okay. I'm twenty two like okay. I might be able to start working on that when I'm ten years in my career when I have a different job title when I'm more resources so it was like a lot of a lot of waiting maybe tomorrow and just the idea of like these huge aged global issues can be so overwhelming and and my thought was like well. It's a huge global issues so it needs a huge global solution and it wasn't until all I really made that kind of core thing actually a small as it could possibly go and say like okay maybe instead of thinking about a million women. I think about one what what would it be like to be in relationship with and learn from and be friends with one woman and because that was so relatively small right it's like I don't have any excuses for why I can't go. Make a single friend like I don't need a certain degree. I don't need billions of dollars. I don't need my boss to say yes so it. It was really making it as small as it possibly go when I was like okay. I don't have an excuse anymore. Now I had to sit in this moment of like if you still don't do anything then then you're kind of a fraud and just stop saying you care about this issue. Stop saying you're passionate about it and go about building this life. That's pretty strong language. I kind of want to highlight it. which which is if you say you care and you don't do anything you're fraud and? I think that's a little bit about what makes you authentic is the the willingness to call yourself that in so I almost want to display off that for some leaders listening right now and say maybe let's stop talking and go ahead and do something and let Lizzie story. I want to hear more about it. Because it really is so inspirational. Let Her story inspire you to let your actions lineup with with the things you say you value and I wanna pull some more on this list. You have a book. That's releasing on October. First tells the name of the book that book is beginners. Pluck build your life have purpose passion and impact now you took the phrase beginner's luck in. You tried to shift the mindset. Give us some unsought please yeah so. I realized several years into my career that every time I was on the cusp of something interesting if something good did something that really required a lot of risk. I had this nagging insecurity that like hey if you take this risk and then you bomb tom you fail. Everybody is going to see you for this like imposter that you really are and they're gonna see that anything good that you've done up until this point in your career like it was all just beginner's luck so this was kind of this like insecurity that just kept driving me and I would notice it really flaring out when I was on the edge of taking a really interesting adding risk or leap kind of out of my comfort zone into something new and so I started just like really thinking about the phrase like why why is this just like so nagging on me. Why is this creating so much fear and so I was like was there a time in your career where you didn't feel that specific insecurity and so I just kinda like delved back into the archives and I had to go quite frankly really far back all the way to the beginning of my career and to this time when I didn't have that that insecurity security and so then I spent a long time thinking about what were the mentalities in the mindset that I had during those earliest days before that specific insecurity started to arise is and what I realized was my my most free. Most innovative most creative time in my career is when I was a beginner and it was when I was in this stage where I came to the table not with the sense of like okay. I'm super confident and I've got it all figured out which I think is a lot of the messaging that we give people especially the early on right like just show up and be confident and fake it till you make it and I think that that advice actually has some unintended side effects like a lot of the advice that we're giving people in general right now so the whole book is actually quite I think counter intuitive so I went through and started like realizing using all these messages that we're getting in our culture that I think are creating in unintended consequence on people who are trying to build lives of purpose passionate impact and so I really explore or that in the book and an offer some alternate probably counter intuitive wisdom well. That's exactly what you do in that is the the exact word that I used to describe. Drive your talk to everybody. That was Kinda. Bragging on it is it is counterintuitive in there. We have so many sayings that are popular culture that I think you're right are bringing unintended consequences. You talk about a different idea. You really believe we should be curious over critical. Can you unpack that idea for us. Yeah I think when things things get difficult when you start to feel those feelings of I'm Outta my league and not feeling like I'm keeping up whatever it is most people turn to criticism and there's two forms forms of criticism. There's external criticism so this is when you're like. They don't get my idea Eh. They're not. They're not taking me up. They're not taking me seriously. The circumstances aren't right. It's you know the market's down whatever it is and then there's internal criticism whereas where you start to say like I'm not good enough. I'm stupid. I don't deserve to be here so you can choose either of those but you also have the opportunity. I really use my desire we all. I think most of us have a pretty gut reaction to criticize when we're in a place place of fear or feeling incompetent. I think that's a super natural reaction or at least natural temptation right. I think we don't need to be down on ourselves for feeling doing the instinct to criticize but we do have the choice of what we actually do with that and how we react out of that and so one of the things in my in my life I try to in the same way that those feelings feelings of like nervousness and anxiety trying to switch those two feelings of excitement. I really try to do the same thing with curiosity and criticism the moment I have the instinct instinct to criticize that becomes like the signal to me this like not like Oh get curious lean into that asked the question. There's actually probably we something really interesting in there and frankly. It's probably something that wouldn't come to you naturally so unless you come to the table willing to really ask questions and here's the thing about are asking questions. They can't be leading questions right. I'm the queen of this like asking the question but really trying to Lissette the answer I want so real and true true curiosity and my book I use the example of being a journalist and I I call it being on assignment in your own life and I think really good unbiased best journalists. They come to a story assuming that they don't know where it's GonNa. Take them right. That's what makes a great journalist. They ask a question and then when they find something. That's a little bit different than they anticipated. They have a willingness to follow the lead into kind of say like. Oh that path that I was following. I think I was wrong. Here's where the story is really taking me and actually go there and I think if we can apply that principle to our lives to our personal lives I mean this applies to win your at the gas station and you run into a jerk in instead status having a critical attitude like if your first thought is like man I wonder what happened in his house this morning that's like making him react in that way in like leaning leaning into that and I think we can use it in our businesses when our customers aren't reacting to something like we thought they were instead of jumping to criticism getting really really curious and continuing to lead in and that that's where they're really good the good stories and information lie. That's so helpful and I want to highlight that just for our leaders listening right now and kind of taking what you said the words I I try to tell myself the point at which on most critical is using indicator of the place where I have the most to learn and so anytime you're studying studying loses work or you're you're looking at a new model in your industry and you find yourself pushing back and saying no not in my world now. This isn't true that that may be what I've found founders. I often don't have the context or the experience yet to understand and that's really an indicator that I I should stop criticizing and really come with an open mind set in your your work is really special what you've done. Is your pen creating a new market. You're employing people that otherwise wouldn't be employed. Can you tell me maybe maybe a story. You've got several in your book but one of your favorites of how curiosity helped spark your social entrepreneur venture you know if we go all all the way back to the very beginning I would say the model itself was born out of curiosity so I showed up in Uganda and was like okay you know I grew up in America in I have heard stories about women in Africa and so when I showed up and faced this problem of under-resourced resource young women not having enough money to go to university. I immediately jumped to the conclusion as I briefed a little bit earlier about like Oh okay. I've been here done that like seeing this. A million times. We have to start charity will like start a sponsorship program a will match up women in America with women in Uganda and I I think God I was still in this ause like this problem had emerged. I was like trying to solve it but like I said I had this journalism degree and I think I was like kind of playing saying this persona of like being a journalist at the time and I'm so grateful because before I launched that idea I was like I'm just going to spend weeks setting up coffee meetings setting up informational interviews going on walks in just digging in and asking the question in a way that really did feel open-handed like okay. Here's the problem as I see it. Here's a potential ideas for solutions helped me. What are the holes. What am I not seeing when I tell you that you know in your perspective completely different than mine the headmistress of the girl school the person who kind of works on longer term finances for the organization the women that at the school themselves elves like really getting so design thinking is kind of a school of thought of how we solve problems and I love. There's a phrase and design thinking that is like hey instead of going for the bird's eye view you get the worms I view and I love this. I get up as close as possible to the problem that you're trying to solve and then really lean in and listen and when I I did that I started hearing these like clues. no-one outright said you should start a business but what they were saying was like okay you gotta keep the girls together. They can't go back home to their villages. there's a bigger problem in our economy which is people are graduating from school and then they can't get work right. We have the super high youth unemployment rate at talks about you know larger things that are happening in the economy stagnating. All of these things were like these it feels like that's the real issue and and that's certainly not going to be solved by me coming in matching up you know a a group of women with a group of women in America who can send them checks and so it was really this kind of thought process of like ooh. That feels like a clue right. Thank you so much now. I'm going to follow this and go in a completely different direction and that kind of rabbit trail of piecing together the clues is to create a solution and that was very different than the one I originally came to the table goes step by step asking questions being curious making mistakes that led to a really amazing story the at at a global leadership some Liz. I brought my three of my kids. I brought Sam who just graduated Stephen Sixteen enjoy his fourteen and they loved your talk aw but you said something that was really different than what everyone else is telling them. Culture says today follow your passion. Follow your passion. Follow your passion Russian but you'd have different advice I do. I home and I am the IM part of generation that it is just like every time I open instagram instagram. Every time I go to a conference someone is telling us to you know like find your passion like go out there and and find it and I think that that phrase is actually actually really toxic because this notion that your passion exists. It's out there. It's like fully formed in. It's waiting for you right. It's waiting for are you to make the right decision to open the right door to have you know the right conversation with the right person that gets you the job and that's where you're. GonNa Find Your Passion. I think that that's a really toxic thing because it it puts us in that place of passivity and it also puts us in a place where there is so much pressure like I have to open the door to find this mystical magical passion that everybody's talking about and then by the way the next messages once you find it everything else in your life. Life is GonNa fall into place and it's just like I'm sorry if you replace that with anything else like I think in my parents generation it was money and it was security right that that if once you achieve that then the rest of your life is going to fall into place. I really believe that passion has become my generation's new idol right. It's this beautiful thing thank God designed us to exist in communion with him co creating the Kingdom of God here on Earth but the moment that thing becomes like the end all be. We all okay well now. We have an idol right. We've just taken a good thing and we've given it too much importance in our life and so I really believe that the mentality around building your passion. It's like this is it. This is your story. It is on you to go out there to ask the questions to be curious to build to take and frankly to be willing to be surprised by that like you never in a million years. Craig could have told me that ten years and I would be running a four profit international fashion company like I hated needed fashion not interested. You know a lot of these like influencers. Have these stories that it's like. Oh when I was a little girl I was already doing this on the playground and it's like very nice in like. I think if that's really your story that's awesome. If you've always known what you're passionate about but what that does to the rest of us who don't have that story or is it makes us feel like we're broken and that we're missing something and it doesn't help us feel empowered to actually go out and just build it so we're going to live looking for this mysterious allusive something in everything's letdown and people may not take the first step at what I what I found. I agree with you completely. When you do dive into something you actually can become passionate about things. You never even thought you'd be passionate about and so I think it's a really really helpful message you. You also would would say something very different than what I'm GonNa see if I opened up the normal instagram page today. When everybody says think big dream big conquer the world naked difference all over the world you would say there's actually probably even a more helpfulness as well? Tell me about it. You know here's the thing we hear about dreaming big all the time and I am genuinely a big fan of dreaming big if dreaming if you're in a place in your life where you're dreaming big and you're actually actually taking action like that's amazing. Keep going keep doing it who I'm talking to. Though are the people that feel pretty paralyzed and overwhelmed by that message of of like dream big and we start to ask ourselves we have these beautiful dreams we have these visions and then the first thing that we do instead of the first question being like awesome. What's my action step. What am I doing tomorrow to help this come to life. The first question starts to become like is big enough like am. I doing is big enough. Should I should probably hi wait. I should probably wait and I should make a little bit bigger and I should ask for more people's opinions and I should make it sound more impressive and then maybe someday I'll just like emerge onto the scene with this huge huge dream and I think that that's that makes me really really really sad when I see people doing that because I know that the likelihood that that dream ever actually turns into into something is actually really really small and so I I really just want to give people the freedom to say like hey. It's big enough now. Just us go do it and frankly I think it's so much healthier to have a like relatively small dream and actually do something and then you get put in this place where then okay. Hey now you're next small. Dream might be a little bit bigger but that's GONNA lead you to the next thing into the next thing that's how we build lives of purpose and passion and impacted doesn't happen and sitting in a room pontificating in dreaming and researching and coming up with this big super impressive plan that then we need to be successful right out of the gate right because if you spend all all this time on the big dream what that actually does is that can keep you from being curious and from iterating evolving because you become really attached to the a big dream. It's like oh well. This has to work. This has to be the thing if you dream small. You're actually a lot more willing to get into it and go like okay. Did the small L. Dream. Wow that wasn't exactly what I expected. Okay so next time I'm going to try this and I'm going to tweak this a little better like wow that actually is what caught my attention and you get to follow that lead and and I really believe that that's a more healthy way to to think about it Liz. I love this. I hope that there's someone listening right now. That kind of like you said earlier you know they're thinking thinking is making some big difference starting a big company creating a big brand making a big difference a big ministry or whatever and had been thinking for a long time and this just given the courage urge to start right now right where they are. Do something take a really small step. Take a risk set up an appointment start start. Write right down step number one. I love the idea that some- sometimes we don't we can't see dot number seven so we don't take step number one your you'll never hit step number seven unless you take step number one and even step number. One is really really small. Let's just take it today. Take that step. I WANNA hit on one other idea that you you drive home unless you say that that we should get hooked on making and keeping promises tell us why that's important to you so so we live in a generation and a world in a society that I think is filled with a lot of BS and by B S. I mean busy the end should there's a lot of busy insureds getting thrown around. We're all like so busy and we're so important and we all also live in this life. Where we're constantly thinking like I do this. I should do this. I should be here. I should be this type of person and in the book I explore this concept of being a person that makes and keeps promises and specifically civically your VIP's your very important promises. I really think that in order to build a life of purpose and passion and impact you have to do the hard work work of knowing what the absolute priorities in your life as they're just frankly can't be very many of them and I call those. You're very important promises and getting in really crystal clear on like this is my promise and this is what that means right so one of my very important. Promise areas is parenting and motherhood other head. I have a three year old and I have a one year old and being president parent who is stewarding the lives of her children is really important but a good promise is not like so. I'm going to be a good mom because what that does that opens me up that opens me up to everybody else's definition of what is a good mom right and then. I started having this thing thing of what I should be doing this. I should be you know this are how should look like this and someone else is putting their kids in this class so I should think about that and instead do the work to say what is being a really good. Mom Look like for you and get like crazy granular with it and say these are the things that I believe in and I'm GonNa make a promise to myself into my family that that I do these things and that means that when something comes up when Jili Joey is doing this thing with her kids and that strikes this insecurity security in me of like I should be doing that with mine. I have this thing that I can go back to and go. Did you write that down. was that a promise that you made to your family and when I look at my list I and I know that thing that that Jill is doing down the street like never even occurred to you as being a part of being a good mom so let it go like kick kick. The should kick the shit out of it if you will we don't take our promises seriously enough we throw it around and if we can just do the really the really difficult work of saying what matters to me what the things that are going to help me build my life of purpose passionate impact and then take those crazy seriously and let those kind of the guide for how we we spend our time in our energy that we're we're much more likely in in the long run to build something that matters so let's can you bring it home for. I actually am thinking about doing something and I've been putting it off. I know that there are some other people out there that have an idea could be for business. It could be to be innovative in their church. It could be for a ministry mystery or such talks about how to channel our inner beginner to start the cycle of innovation into do something special. I think the first step is is to tell yourself and to really try to believe it that there is no shame in your beginners game. I think that shame is the thing that keeps us from from learning and I think when we when we find ourselves in this place where I I don't I don't want to embarrass myself. I don't want people to look at me and fail. We'll also here's a tidbit. No no one's thinking about you as much as you think they're thinking about you. I'M GONNA propose that it might not be insecurity. It might actually be an inflated that sense of Ego because what's happening is. You're actually thinking that people are sitting around waiting for your next move going to evaluate you like I'm. I'm sorry actually no like no. One is thinking about you. Got My and I think that sounds really harsh but I think at least for me when I'm like Oh. I'm just feeling insecure. I don't really have a path out of that. When I'm like girl you've got an EGO problem. I feel very empowered and inclined to deal with that and to to say like okay. You need to step back and put yourself like in your right place. I feel much more motivated and so I think that that's what I would. Encourage is the first staff like no one's thinking about you as much as you think they are so you have the freedom like go out. Take risks make a couple wrong calls turn in the other direction and build something awesome awesome so at the same time. I feel like you hurt my feelings telling me about me as much as I think. NFL inspired to go and do something so thank you for that. It might be a pretty good summary of the book itself I felt pretty offended but then somehow encouraged its offended in a good way and inspired and a great wait and so the book is called beginners plucked a really want encourage our listeners to get this and thank you all for listening to Global Leadership Summit podcast. If you haven't rated uh-huh or reviewed it please do so and I know you're going to be inspired by this interview so share it on social media hit subscribe invite others to be a part of the Global Leadership Eh Network and summit podcast so liz massive thanks Craig and everybody listening Craig and Liz. Thank you for that dynamic conversation. There's so much that we can really coal from what what they just discussed couple of things that stood out to me VIP's there can't be many of them. We're not talking about very important people. We're talking about very important. Promises is knowing what is a VIP and what isn't also We live in a world. That's filled with a lot of bs now listen. She said I did it B. S. meaning busy and should if something is not on your VIP list kick the should out of it just some great actionable content from Liz and from Craig. We just want want to encourage you that this is an ongoing leadership journey that we are all together the next podcast were released in two weeks and make sure you tune in had a fantastic conversation. Asian with my dear friend Ben Sherwood he's the former president of Disney's TV group and the President of ABC News. I worked for him. He hired me and I can could honestly say that. Ben Sherwood is the best leader that I have ever worked for. He's going to reveal his keys to leadership and also how he got Barbara Walters on board board at ABC News. Make sure you tune into that in two weeks. Also I mentioned earlier that we have a surprise coming in November our next G. L. S. next event is going to be streamed streamed live on November twelfth. We have world renown leadership expert Marcus Buckingham and Craig Rochelle. They're gonNA share amazing fresh content so don't miss it go to global leadership dot. Org Slash events to find out more. That's global leadership dot org slash pence. Thanks for joining us today on the podcast as we like to say go get better will soon soon

Craig Rochelle Liz United States America Uganda fraud CEO New York Times founder Paula Farris President Alaska Daewoo Liz Bohannon Ben Sherwood Missouri ABC News Hugh Barbara Walters
039: Why You Need Beginners Pluck with Liz Bohannon | The Living Room

The Living Room with Joanna Weaver

1:00:39 hr | 4 months ago

039: Why You Need Beginners Pluck with Liz Bohannon | The Living Room

"Tools living room to grow a space of grace to become everything God wants us to be you're listening to the living room podcast with Joanna Weaver episode thirty nine. Hey this week friend. Hope you're having a delightful summer I'm so excited about today's episode because I have a chance to talk Liz Bohannon, she's an author and entrepreneur who's created a business that's literally changing lives around the world. That it's her down to Earth wisdom that I've really appreciate it. We talk about so many things from the power of dreaming small isn't that an interesting approach to the importance of making promises and keeping them but our discussion about social media that really kind of has stuck with me. Because you know so many times we are trying to live our lives according to someone else's specifications rather than going to the Lord to find out what he wants it to look like I hope you'll stick around for Liz testimony about how she came to meet the word the end. It's so beautiful. So without further ADO years Liz, I'm so excited to be with Liz Bohannon today she's the founder of Saco designs in the author of a wonderful book called beginners black build your life of purpose and impact now. Liz Welcome to the living room. Thank you so much for having me in your in your proverbial living room. That's right. He tell those girls out there that maybe aren't familiar with you what you do, what Saco designs is all about and just a little bit of your story. Yeah. So my name is Liz I grew up in the Midwest in Missouri and went to the University of Missouri where I studied journalism and throughout my time in journalism school, I became increasingly interested in issues that we're facing women and girls that were living in extreme poverty end in conflict and post conflict zones, and so I graduated from university and went out and can have the big dream to find my dream job which I think at the time was. Really hoping that some journalistic entity would hire me to travel the world. Kinda tell the stories in raise awareness for these global issues while it turns out. That no one's really interested in hiring a twenty two year old who doesn't really have journalism experience and has never really left the United States to go be like a global war course underwrite. So I, get a job at a corporate communication firm. In my hometown and I m about three months into that job when I kind of have this realization, this kind of come to Jesus moment where I realized that there's this thing that I say I really care about I really care about within living in global extreme poverty and in conflict and post conflict zones in yet. Here's my life in here is kind of the track that I've chosen in that I'm on and I could kind of you know relatively play out. The foreseeable future of like being in this job in doing this thing and realizing that that the life that I was building was entirely unaffected by this thing that I said I actually cared about in for me it really clicked her hit home when I had this moment where I realized, you don't have a single friend who is a girl who grew up in extreme poverty, my your community, your life your relationships are totally unaffected by it. It is literally just an intellectual. Belief that you hold and really kind of grappling with why say I'm passionate about? But really it's kind of just that I have a strong opinion about it. It's not passion because my life isn't actually affected by it at all. and. So that was a really powerful moment I think the word I would use honestly as conviction of like stealing there is an integrity gap between what I said I cared about the life that I was building. And so in that moment I kind of felt like, okay you can do one of two things you can just stop talking about that thing like say like Kinda give it up and stop saying you know you're really passionate about it and and just go on and do this thing in bill the safe life in make money and get married and have the kids do thing or you can actually make a decision to kind of close that gap between what you say you care about in your actual life so i. bought. A one way plane ticket to Uganda I quit my job. was in the height of a recession I had never been to Africa before again wasn't like a particularly, well well-traveled person at this time and really my only goal was to just show up in to close that gap to say like I just want my life in my community and my relationships to be a little bit more reflective of this thing that I say I really. Care about and so I showed up in Uganda just absolutely Iraq I mean like had no idea what I was doing didn't have a job didn't have an idea of why I was there beyond just like friendship, but it doesn't feel very good in the time when people are like, wow, why did you quit your job in the Hyder Vera session to move to Uganda and you're like Just trying to make a friend laugh. Very impressive sounding which I can laugh about now. But frankly at the time was really difficult. My parents and kind of everybody's like wait you're doing what like sorry showed up and felt pretty insecure just about how can of lake aimless I was and really just like wandered around the country spent time doing what I said I was going to do, which is literally just like making friends and building community. And through that process, I ended up kind of becoming friends with people who introduced me one thing led to another thing and I ended up at this use development organization About an hour outside of Kepala, which is the main city in Uganda and I stepped foot on this campus in hours like, oh, my gosh because it's to your college prep program, basically their target group is women who are really academically gifted who show a lot of leadership capacity and potential but who come from backgrounds of extreme poverty so they get thousands of applicants a year. They pick the top twenty, five girls to come to this program. So just like if you can imagine the energy, the intellect, the dreams that scheming the happening on this high school campus it is. It's literally one of my favorite places on earth. It's just electric right in. So I was like Oh. My Gosh. These young women like their stories were just wild I mean so much. heartbreak and heartache but so much grit and perseverance envision and I was like I just want to be a part of their story like they're the ones that are going to go on to create real and meaningful change and I just like whatever part that I can play in that great and so I honestly just hung out for a long time I was like writing profile stories on the women and Kinda doing like help with their like quarterly newsletter but really hours. Hanging out if we're being honest and just through hanging out, I learned about this issue because the all the teachers in the principals and the administrators are talking about this kind of growing challenge that they're facing and that challenge is there's a nine month gap between High School in University in Uganda, and so what was happening with the specific group of young women. is they were graduating from high school and they're going back home to their villages and what happened when they went back home to their villages between you know for that nine month gap is that they went back to look for jobs so that they could pay for university and they couldn't find jobs most of them are from areas within eighty percent youth unemployment rate. So it's like any economic opportunity that does exist typically defaults to the boys next they lose their social support network. Right. So for the last two years, they've been with other women who are super driven, who are really ambitious teachers and principals. Who are like? Yes, you can go to college in Yes. You can become a leader in their community and then they go back home villages where they might be the first women in their entire village who have even graduated from high school. Let alone who have aspirations for university and beyond there's a ton of pressure on them in the form of bride price to get married into having kids right away and so I just Kinda got wrapped up into this conversation that was happening in for me at the time it just felt like an absolute no brainer like, okay here twenty five of the brightest young women. In the country, the fact that not every single one of them would continue onto university in continue with pursuing their plans in their dreams for becoming leaders is stupid like surely there's something we can do to bridge this nine month gap and so long story. Long Long Story Short I ended up starting a nonprofit, a charity and. Became really convinced through that process of just more interviewing more asking questions more digging in that for this specific scenario like we need to be thinking beyond that we need to be thinking away that we're creating marketplace opportunity where we're contributing to the local economy where we're doing things where these young women could earn income learning skills That could have an effect not just on these women in their families, but really on the broader community and so became very convinced that we needed to start a business and so I started a chicken farm and that failed pretty miserably. Mainly, because I got into, it was just like well like I am not excited to wake up every day. Chickens this this. This is bad. This is really bad. And then I ended up. Is Honestly. Generous word I had made a pair of these strappy sandals when I was in college I didn't really have any interest in fashion but I wanted a pair of flip flops. It didn't love in. So I designed these sandals and. I made him at the time out of like rubber flop bottoms. I had ripped kind of like plastic song piece often I replaced it with some just like a ribbon that I had laying around and I had flipped opposite and flop. So fast forward a few years I'm just brainstorming like is something we could or make it needs to kind of check these different boxes and one of my friends from back home was like what about those like funky like strappy sandals that you made when we were in college like is that something you can make? Sure, I can't think of anything better you know like and I've tried a few things and they've all failed, and so I made a pair of these sandals kind of spent a few months like prototyping them going all over the country kind of trying to cobble together a supply chain for them, and then came back to school, and we're like, all right who are who are three women that you feel really confident will go to college. If they you know have the opportunity will do really well, and we'll go on to become leaders in their communities but just based off of their home life in their family life and where they come from will probably really struggle to make that happen. Ends at school came back and they had chosen three women, Mary Mercy Andrew. BECCA. And so I sat down with Mary Mercy and Rebecca and I was like all right ladies. Here's the deal. If you make these sandals for the next nine months I, promise that you'll go to college next year and they were like, okay and I was like. Okay and and how old are you? Oh, Gosh I was twenty two Oh by word over we're making this big promise to these girls huge promise. Oh yeah his felt like absolutely enormous. I am a really big believer. There's actually an entire chapter of my book called making keeping important promises and I just absolutely believe really deeply that one of the most fundamental parts of building a life of purpose and passion and impact is having the courage to make promises by the way to make them before you've actually got it totally figured out to speak them out loud and to hold yourself accountable for them. It's really Actually just a matter of like really simple integrity like will you be someone who has the courage to make a promise into to say it out loud and then will you be someone that has the integrity to keep that promise and I and this to me obviously, I'm choosing like one of the biggest most fundamental most life changing promises I ever made like literally Bat promise changed the entire trajectory. Of My life because I went home and I'm trying to sling sandals and like it's not going great. It's like kind of kind of not working. It was so difficult but I know one hundred percent had I left Uganda those young women I'm GonNa go home and see what happens like you make these sandals I'm GonNa go home, and I'm going to do the best that I can I know? For absolute fact, a month two months, three months, four months in I, would've pulled the plug I would have been like I did my part I tried I tested it out. I. Saw what I could do. I got us for a I got as far as I could. But if the promise I had made like I'll try I just I wouldn't have pushed myself but the reality is I kid. You not throughout that first year a constant ringing in my brain was like you made a promise, I could go back and I could envision myself sitting on that patch of grass with these three young women looking them in the eye and saying like I promise. If you do this I will do my part and I knew that if the Sandal thing didn't work out I, just have to go out. And do beg for money. I was twenty two and broke as a joke. So it's like I didn't have like a you know I didn't have a backup plan. So for me, it was like you either go and sell those sandals or you go like bag everybody that you know for money and I didn't WanNa. Do that Um and so that promise pushed me so many steps furger from. When I wear I would have naturally given up. So I focus on this. You know in this story, there's this really huge promise, but frankly it's it can be such small promises like literally it's just about having integrity and saying like high need to move my body for thirty minutes a day three days a week and saying like I and I'm going to say that out loud and I'm going. To actually take that as seriously as if I looked three girls in the I in east. African. Said, I'm going to do this like it's not just even keeping promises to other people but just keeping promises to ourselves and so often like we give up on ourselves so much more frivolously than we would ever do to people that we care about right where it's like you know our integrity that. We had in promising a friend that we're going to show up for something specific can be a lot greater than even the integrity we haven't. We say like this is something that I wanna do for me and we don't think about it I. Think if we even switch our mentality of like said, I was going to do this thing but life got really busy and I should be doing this. And just like you know, I made a promise and I broke that promise to myself. I don't have integrity least for me. That's a really really powerful way to shift it and I, and I also talk in the book about how promises are so sacred. You can't beat making promises all the time like because you can't actually it's not sustainable to be like I promised to do this. I promised to do that like getting really serious about like you only have a precious small amount of promises that you can make. I truly believe that to build a life of purpose and passionate impact if we do the work upfront to say. Let my yes, be yes and let my no no and be more comfortable with saying no to a lot more stuff. It actually leaves us with a smaller amount of things but those things hold a greater amount of importance in there really sacred and we say them out loud and we make promises about it and in my book I actually outline a whole process for making. Really. Important promises in making promises that align with your vision for what you want out of your life because we can spend our whole lives being busy and feeling like we should be doing a million things and getting some of them down and not getting some of them done and at the end of the day and at the end of the year and at the. End of a decade we just feel exhausted but then we look at our life and we're like, but what what am I doing and there's this chasm between what I want and what I've built and I truly believe that part of that is because we didn't do the work on the front side to figure out what our promises are to make those promises to keep them. I love this part of your book because I think the thing that was really powerful to me as you take it beyond like something big in the world and you bring it down to two something I thought it was so great how you talked about you know you we all Wanna be a great mom or great wife or or great print yet. But then taking a time to actually define what that looks like without letting other people define it for as can you talk about that? Yes. It's this is so it's so important because especially in today's age of like social media and we see everybody's life when we know what everyone else is doing and what they think is important we unconsciously have this in possible amalgamation of because everybody's just sharing like the thing that they've chosen to be important for them. Right so you are on a daily basis seeing one hundred things that one hundred different people are like. This is my thing in this is what I Think. Is Important in subconsciously what we're doing is we're thinking like, oh my gosh in order to be a good mom, a CEO a good wife, a good sister I do those one hundred things because that's your kind of unconscious amalgamation of what it means to be a great mom wife sister friend whatever it is in that puts in an absolutely in possible standard upon us because none of those people are doing all one hundred things right? They've chosen bear like few things. In. So in order for us and and here's the thing if you really lean into it, my guess is that if you look at those one hundred things, seventy, ben if you're being really honest with you with yourself, you don't actually think are important. Believe this narrative that people say they're important so they must be important for me. That's so good in. So what I've had to do it I, I saw a mom of two little boys. So I've got three and a half year old son and a one and a half year old son, and so I've just seen it really clearly for myself in motherhood of just having to get frankly ruthless with shutting out the entire world frankly in just getting with myself and with the Lord and with my husband, maybe with two or three other women that are like my core core people, and by the way, even those two or three other women have very not very different but. Different definitions of what it means to be a good mom and and just getting down to the work of saying who did God make you to be live Bohannon who are the children that he gave me because that's the other thing. It's like well being a great mom. Our kids have very different like needs in dispositions in we have different like a probably a different family vision than somebody else in different goals for what our life looks like. So of course, in the day to day how I am manifesting mother hood is going to look different from the person. Next to me and I need to be in a place where I'm saying the things that I'm giving my time and my energy to or the things that I can authentically and with integrity say these matter to me these are important to me and there are ninety nine things that I can say I should be doing that someone else is doing not someone's looking at me thinking that I'm like you know not doing the right thing because I'm not doing those things and I'm being really honest I'm like I don't think those things actually matter they might matter for her. Just doesn't really matter very much for me. How free in that is if we can get to that place where we're we're we're willing to go. That's cool. Yeah. Having a pinterest worthy instagram worthy birthday party for your kid. Awesome. But my kid really doesn't care about that and maybe he just wants a really just a mommy and daddy time and I love that a man a man I mean not that you use it a great example like of just like for my kids birthdays, it's like are we? So we live in a community we live on what we Joke is like a little urban commune with some of our best friends and birthday parties consist of didn't we? We're lucky to have summer babies. So dinner in the backyard I, go to the dollar store and I buy four packages of those giant balloons blow them up. Let the kids play get four cans of whipped cream and say do what you want. Let this go wild that you ought to eat it you. WanNa fight with it. He WanNa play within the world great and like and order dollar fifty Tacos from like the talker down the street and it's just like If I shut out the rest of the world and I look at what's happening in front of me. It's beautiful and it's perfect and it's all my kidneys and it's all we need and the level of just like stresses non existent the freedom that exists there. But Ho man, it's just like it's difficult but it is so. Worth it to be on the other side of saying like, and I can look at somebody else who does the thing and say Cook for you if that truly is the thing that is bringing you life and that you feel called talent, it feels really important in this season this stage like you be you. I will cheer so loudly for you which by the way we can't do for other people. Unless we have rudeness and security for ourselves. So if I'm feeling insecure about the dollar fifty TACO party that I threw for my kid what ends up happening is when I look at the mom who does the pinterest where the birthday party one of two things are going to happen either I'm going to be really down myself. I'm going to be like you stink you're not a great mom. You know like you don't love your kid is you don't have your act together. You're selfish whatever it is whatever. My like narrative is or I'm going to look at the other mom and I'm going to be kind of Judgy and I I've seen this in myself before in. It's so ugly of just like, wow, she's got a lot of time on her hands. You know like what is she doing with her life that you know like to protect myself from my own insecurities? I turn that judgment onto someone else and then I am objectified my neighbor because now they are just an object of me using them distorting. They are and who God made them to be that I can protect myself for my insecure feelings. I see this so much with women myself included we think it's US being insecure. We have this kind of language around insecurity right? Just like I'm so insecure. I'm GonNa tell you and I'm going to say something that might sound a little bit harsh and the is hard to hear bring it on your insecurity might actually be a really sneaky version of narcissism. And of an over inflated ego because what you're doing when you're insecure is your ego is actually taking up more space in your ego is distorting other people in their lives in its distorting the story of their lives. In telling you a story that's GonNa make you feel better about the decision that you made and that it we can't love one another. We cannot like I can't love that other Mama who's making other decisions in Life I. Just posted about this on on my instagram because I had a moment with another mom and she was talking about her life and how she has recently decided to stay at home full time with our kids and I'm a working mom and I work a lot. And there were just a few things about what she said that just kind of sparked my insecurity right in I start spiraling and I start. My first question is like she think I'm a bad mom because I'm not making decision and then as insecurity in shame dies I spiralled more and it went from like does she think I'm a bad mom to like. Am I a bad mom like am I missing out And and then I realized. Cool. This woman now. Charlie Brown the teacher that's like Murmur Murmur. That's what she's sharing about her life because I asked her about her life and I have completely lost my ability to even listen to anything else she saying because now I'm spiraling in my own world. Am I good mom what does she think about me and I realized in this moment of just like shut it down Liz like this isn't your insecurity you are being an ego maniac right now. You, you'll came to the table and ask this woman about her life. She gave you the gift of sharing about her actual life, and now you've made it completely about yourself and your spiraling, and now you've lost the ability to actually sit across the table and listen to her speak truth into her life and encourage her because you're spiraling with what she thinks about you and for me because I have a desire to. Like I WANNA be somebody that's like a good friend and a good listener, and that can speak in show up and speak truth into other people's lives that compels me to do the work in my own life of like me being rooted and having competence in my decisions in who I am as a wife as a daughter as a CEO as a mother as sister that confidence actually then gives me the ability to love. So. Much better. It's not selfish. It's not like we have this idea of like have an ego. I don't WanNa be overconfident in I would argue that confidence gives you the ability to pour into other people because you're not like spiraling constantly and having to deal with your own stuff. You can say I I I know what I believe I did the hard work to pray about this into ask. You know for wise counsel and to make this decision and I can stand in confidence that at least for this season of life God has called me unequivocally into the workplace and to be and to be a mom and my out of that confidence I can love you where you're at in say like you may need to make a different decision for yourself and for your kids but guess what? Literally has nothing to do with me has to do with you. That's so good Liz that's so good and I think I think you know, I, I'm definitely older than you and so I raised my kids. In a time work, it wasn't constantly in front of me what everybody else was doing but but I think I think if that girl who's sitting at home and and she's saying I had a dream once had a dream I felt an urgency in my heart in, and now we're like we're surrounded by this message of find your passion even find your purpose and I think it can almost be crippling at times and I that's why I loved your book because you talk a lot about putting those concepts even what God has chosen to do in your life. Putting it. In a context that I think allows all of us to find our purpose even though it might not be on a big stage or in a big way or or even working full-time or and creating something that changes the world like that we can be what God wants us to be in our little corner in our little realm of influence. Can you kind of talk about that? What those things that I think are maybe causing a lot of discontent or even condemnation and women's lives? Yes there is a an abundance of. Anxiety and assist paralysis in overwhelm that comes from this message of find your passion. Like. If I hear someone say this phrase again co find your dream job and you'll never work another day in your life lease. Okay. Hello. Preach it sister I don't think I've ever worked so hard as at this online space. And I am like, I am a proud representative. I am an ambassador from the island of dream job like I literally dreamed up my job and I am doing everything that is like the you know it is a manifestation of my deepest beliefs and the things that I love and it is so freaking hard There are days where I do wake up and I feel totally motivated and totally Hashtag blessed, and then there are other days. where I'm like, what am I doing? What did I get myself into? Why Hogue? Amoah where do we go round here? You know in. So by putting out these crazy unrealistic lake things of what it will be like when you make it like I literally man just had somebody comment on my instagram just a few days ago I posted something that was like so exciting I had seth Godin include my book in his like fall. Recommendation. Such, I just love him I love his work I respect him so much. So for him to not only like read my book and like it then listed as the number two buck for other people to go out and read just it truly was one of it was as cool as it sounds like it real. Laid in bed and just felt that lake. You know when you get the fruit of like your hard work in your labor and this kind of like sense of affirmation. It's just like this giddy floating feeling and then I had someone posted about it on instagram in someone commented something to the effect of like, wow, you finally made it. And I will tell you that when read that comment my my glory bubble just went. Because it mmediately, I was just like, Oh, no sister I did, and that's not how this were like. Is this a highlight? Is this awesome it's so fun to relish in Lake you know when when you get to have this moments yes but like nate it like what does that mean like? No, this is not some magical thing that happen that from here on out everything else is going to be easy and everything else is GonNa come to me and like I've been doing this for ten years and I've just been through it too many times I've had the thing that happens. The, other people on the outside see is like, whoa. You did it. You arrived and then I experienced the other side of it was like it was awesome. It was amazing. It was so fun than I. Woke up the next morning and I. got back to work and like things might be a little bit better a little bit easier. Maybe there was this head or we had sales or you know created a new connection definitely but was it like the silver bullet magic you finally arrived angels are singing from upon heaven like no, it was like a cool thing. We celebrated we got back to work. That's where the real gold is, and that's how it happens for most of us like it isn't this just like crazy act of luck. It's part of the reason that I called the book beginners pluck. So plaque as a noun mean-spirited determined courage and we have the saying in our community of like who needs luck when you've got pluck and this idea that it's like finding your passion has nothing to do with lock. It has everything to do with pluck like will you wake up with a sense of spirited and determined courage? You say like, where am I today? Where has got place me will will you make important promises? We have integrity we keep those promises will you be committed to them even when it's difficult or even when it doesn't go exactly as you hoped and like if you do that if you are faithful to the small things over the series of days in weeks in years and decades like that is how we don't find our passion our purpose, but we build it. The so good you know and I I just think as a girl a you know called to ministry at like sixteen and dreaming of doing big things for Jesus. And so there was always this there was like this expectation of God. was going to do with me. That even when good things happened I couldn't really celebrate because there was still more out there and I think the thing I love about your story even though God is done. Incredible things. You just did what God put in your heart and I I just keep coming back to this since, and I'd love to hear your opinion on this about that girl who sitting there and Austin she's thirty something and the dreams and the passion she had as a young woman in a feeling that burden lake for the girls in Uganda or around the world and yet she whatever, for whatever reason, her story. Didn't take that same trajectory and there's this feeling even of like, yeah I haven't fulfilled my purpose. Yeah. I really missed it because I made some choices back there. Maybe maybe I missed God's purposes for my life. One of the things I love about your book is you talk about owning your average and doing just the things that are in front of you could you could just maybe speak to that girl. Yeah. while. Sister what I wanNA tell you is that it's impossible to missed the boat when it comes to your passion and your purpose if you see the Abo-. In it's driving by or floating by here's what I can tell you for sure. That wasn't your purpose in that wasn't your management because the nature of it is that you can't miss it if it really is for you now I can't say. Did it might be on you to carve out some time in space to to start. Creating the room for God to re ignite that flame, we can't keep doing what we're doing and expect to get different results for. That if there is the sense that it's like, okay, I have this calling I have this purpose I had this dream and one thing led to another thing and I made this decision. Well, maybe it wasn't meant to be for ten years ago. Maybe there is something that needed to happen in your life in your character in your story and your relationships where you are actually more well-suited to do the thing today then you would have been last year five years ten years ago. But I really really would say you gotTA listen to those hunches into those whispers because building a life of purpose and passion and impact. It isn't about waiting for the loud call like. I'm sorry but no one is gonNA come into your life like no one is going to knock on your door tomorrow and say. Julie I've been thinking praying about your gifts in your skills in your passions and I came up with this vision for you and I am here with a plan and by the way I've got you know I've I've got it. All figured out how we're GONNA make them happen in childcare has been arranged and here's your. Garrity, and I'm here's the script for the conversation that you're. GonNa have with your husband like. Dream Girl. That's going to happen. Right. So there is a level of like if it's not about waiting for that kind of magical moment where it becomes clear where it feels like it's going to be easy it is about getting really still and getting quiet or going out and having curious conversations with others that like a conversation alone can spark so much that it's like, okay. Go Out in like ask a woman in your community. Who is doing something that you're like? Oh. Gosh she just you know she's doing something that feels so similar to something that I wanna do or I see a fruit in her life that feels like something i. so deeply desire and ask her if you can take her to coffee and immediately people can be I've got three young kids and you know well I i. like what if she thinks I'm weird or if that's like a burden and it's just like those are all by the way sister those are questions that all of us ask yeah, we're not unique. But what clock is, it's spirited and determined courage and it's like, okay sister we all like you're gonNa live a really boring unfulfilled life. If you're like constant decision making factors like will that be awkward like will that be weird I've literally never met somebody who is like I am who called me to be I am like presuming my purpose and I mainly got there by being like I'm just GonNa try to not be awkward or put anybody out. You know like we've got to get over that because we're really rooted in our like identity as worthy his. Created in the image of God, like we have no business in being ruled by other people's opinions But the thing about owning your average is that there is this belief that is being perpetuated in culture right now that in order to build a life of purpose and passionate impact, you have to be above average right like you've gotta be extraordinarily intelligent or have this crazy awesome idea or have some like you know skillset were personality trade or Blah Blah Blah Blah. Blah. We have this idea that to build an extraordinary life purpose and passionate impact we need to be extraordinary. And sister. That could literally not be further from the truth and this isn't just my opinions. Actually there's like social science toback it when we get to a place where like okay. Probably inherently I am pretty average and that doesn't feel like a demoralizing resigning thing that actually can be something that creates an edible freedom to go like here's the thing I probably am pretty average when it comes to intelligence skill sets you know like talent like that puts you into a posture, actually a growth mindset and I find that to happen not just me I don't find social science finds it that when you actually believe that your average instead of that, you're either like extraordinary in special or you know like extraordinarily. When you're a yeah I'm probably pretty average. What it does is it creates what social scientists call a growth mentality, which means you are much more likely to move in the direction of growth because you're more curious you're more okay with trying things and failing because if you've got the psyche of like I'm really special and I have to go out into the world and prove that I'm really special. The stakes are very high. The stakes are very high for you to choose the next right thing the even without ever having like practice drive, but you're going to be immediately really great at so that other people are GonNa look at you and go like Oh she Israeli special she is really good and successful at everything that she tries and ultimately that's such an impossibly tall order that it paralyzes you and if you'll place that things never gonNA come along. So instead you just stay and you wait and you wait and you wait and you never get to the state of creating. Own your average, what you do is go like, okay. If I'm pretty average that means the first time I tried this thing it's probably going to be pretty average. So I'm going to I'm going to get average results and GonNa take it and I'm going to get really curious and I'm going to figure out like what worked and what didn't work and I'm going to lean into it and I'm going to tweak it a little bit and then I'm going to try again and then I'm like see an interesting challenge or like evolution's and I'm pretty sure I'm GonNa fail the first time that I try it but like no surprise to me because I'm average. So I'll try not paying and then I'll go and then in ultimately what that does is that builds at bill to growth mentality. In over the course of. Weeks, years, decades. You are so much more likely to know nothing that is really extraordinary and when I say build something, it doesn't mean it doesn't matter what it is it a company a Ministry of Family Culture a neighborhood a community ethos. You are so much more likely to get to the you know to get to a period where you look back and all my gosh look what we did and we did it all not because we were special or extraordinary but just because like we went. Out and we did the think and we tried and we made small promises, and then we actually kept those promises. One of the things that I really encourage people to do if you're feeling paralyzed by kind of this big dream is actually to make it smaller. One of the principles of the book is Dream Small and the idea is if you're feeling paralyzed by big vision, take that vision and then actually challenge yourself and it's difficult because we live in a world because dream big drink big dream. And I'M GONNA say Dream Small Dreams. How much smaller can you make good make that dream. So small that you actually remove all of your obstacles and excuses it is better to do the thing that is like point one percent of the big dream but to do it to say out loud today and then to act on it literally in the next forty eight hours that is infinitely more valuable than sitting for another day another week another year another decade on the like impossibly big like so I would just encourage you like. Opposite Day challenge yourself to dream as small as it can possibly go and then go actually do something about it. So good. So good and the wonderful thing about that is is it's attainable and we're not setting ourselves up for disappointment or discouragement which can just kind of pull the rug out from underneath you I think the thing that has been so special about your message is that means no matter where you are right now girls no matter your realm of influence how small or how big That you as an here's the big thing I wanted to say with dreaming small but also being willing to be average it makes so much room for God. Yes. Big 'cause when I've got big things to do for God to be honest my personality is I tend to run ahead of him and expect him to kind of follow me. and. I think that girl who thinks yeah I had a dream but the choices I've made my life has closed the door at I would just encourage you. To again, like like Liz assessing get quiet get still look at that and go Lord is there anything that still there that you want to do in me and then begin to look around you because it could be the dream that he put in your heart way back then? May Look a little bit different and for me at least I've had to kind of even lay down some of my dreams of what I thought. God was GonNa do yeah I had. I never dreamed I would be writing books that was never I love reading but I I'm not a writer still in my mind sometimes I struggle I'm not a writer I did have a passion to speak to women. And so that passion that guy just did not open the doors in, I had to lay that down but then I had to be obedient along the way with what he was saying to me right now and it turns out that writing books was was the vehicle that he used to get me to that initial dream of speaking to women so. Soon, don't miss the ordinary don't miss the opportunities that are all around. You don't believe the lie that you have to for it to matter you know. So SACO, now long story short, we shifted our entire business model about three years ago to be a direct sales model and so instead of selling through stores, we were like, well, what if we because I was meeting hundreds, thousands of women who were paralyzed going like I don't i WanNa make an impact I wanna be a part of something but they would hear my story and you'll. Totally, like but I can't like move to East average vertically integrated manufacturing company from scratch in. So we really started thinking about like, okay. Could we shift our business model here in the US to answer that question for women here at home, and can we put our products in our brand and our story in our impact instead of selling them at trade shows to stores? Could we put that in the hands of women in their community they can go out they can style their friends they can earn an income that can host shows and they. Can sell the product in ultimately build our brand that way well. Not to burst, you know not to spoil the story, but the answer was yes because that's where all in right now and I tell the women in our community that's all of the time and I think it's an amazing picture just like life in general. So they're women in our community who have quit their full time jobs. You know they're earning you know a lot of money every month like they are there entrepreneurs air like business builders they're doing millions of dollars in sales, they they they in their teams are creating impact for hundreds. Of Artisans. They're fully funding scholarships and I know in our community we have this tendency to for women to look at those women and go like she's making a real impact like she if only I could be as successful as she does what these women don't see is what I see from behind the curtains is like cool. You know what we need ten or twenty of those women that are like I want to build a business I. WanNa do millions of dollars in sales I WANNA lead these huge organizations but in order for those women. To Be, successful we need ten or twenty of them. We need like five thousand women. Who are like toast two shows a season and then we need like ten thousand women who are like do one show a week you know and so it's like there's this matrix I can literally see the numbers of like for us to create the impact that we want to create like I need a handful of women in this seat I need a dozen women in the seat in I need several thousand women in this seat and the women in this seat that I'm pointing to that are like the women that are like I'm GonNa join and I'm GonNa host two shows a season. You know I'm a really busy mom I've got three kids under the age of four and I you know, I, I wanNA sell enough that I could be a part of this vision that I can earn a little bit of money on the side like if I, need thousands of those women in thousands of those women together actually make it possible for us all to accomplish the brandon machine and I can't do it without those women. So when those women look at the women, the handful of women, the business builders, the entrepreneurs, the ones that are really running organizations and they say, oh Be Her so therefore like I can't make a big enough impact I have this fire in my heart to say sister no, like you see what you're doing. You're devaluing your role and I'm telling you unequivocally, we need you if you don't come to the table and play your part that you think might be small that you think might be insignificant. We do not as a community. The impact in have the dream that we collectively when a half into its that insecurity and that like if I can't be like her than, it's not worth it. It's not big enough. It's not important enough in instead saying like who am I? What season of life in Iran? What can I give? What am I call too and like I am telling you That those few shows, a season are they're going to add up and they are like they are going to help the tide rise for all of us. So please please please do not devalue that because we need we need women at literally every seat at the table that's so good and I would say that's true of the church it's true the body of Christ is. You know I think we we. We keep looking for the big impact impact rather than just being faithful with what we have and I I keep thinking of the little boy with a lunch who just had his lunch but he was willing to give it to. Jesus and put in the masters hand blessed broke and made enough to beat a multitude and we may never see the power of our one, the power of our little but in God's economy. Really it's tripe that little is much when God is in it. and. So I just love this book and I hope that listeners will go out and get it. You talk a lot about just just the principles of Guinness Plc but I think for me, it was just What do I do with this one life I've been in and I loved it. There's just so much room for us to not not replicate ourselves after Liz. Yes absolutely. But be open to what guide might want to do with our one little life. Right where we are with everything that we have at everything we don't have we are. That God can make more than enough. You know in your last chapter you just talk about the moment that you met. Jesus. Yeah. And I just. Love to have you tell that story because it's just so beautiful as we close and that girl out there who? Maybe. Maybe. She knows Jesus but she doesn't know that Jesus knows her which you tell that story. So I end the book with Sharing Story I was in high school. and I was in a just really really really broken season of life. My family was just absolutely kind of crumbling and falling apart not no one else could see it did a really good job of making sure that we were like clean and happy and buttoned up which in some ways added to kind of the pain of like I'm going. To school every day and acting like everything's together and we're this great happy family in the suburbs. But what's happening behind the scenes and I just felt so much shame about what was happening in so much fear about our future and I had a lot a lot of in my heart about what was happening and I didn't know the Lord. But I was like spiritually curious and I came across a verse in Matthew that talks about forgiveness and the in in this verse where it says like well, basically like if you don't forgive, you're not going to be forgiven and that weighed. So heavily on me and I, thought it just seemed unimaginable to me in my sixteen year old state that I could ever actually have forgiveness and so I kind of had this devastating resigned sense of like. Well, then I guess I can never be accepted by Jesus like I can't because I can't forgive them I can never be forgiven and that kind of precludes me from. This. Great Love that I've kind of heard about and interested and so. I was invited to a Good Friday reenactment. Basically, it was like frankly this kind of like probably cheesy youth group you know like thing it was like right before Easter and some of my girlfriends were going they were involved in a youth like ministry organization that I wasn't actually part of, but they invited me to come to the thing and so I was like, okay. Yeah. My girlfriend's going like I'm going to say yes whatever. So I go to this, you know reenactment thing in. The end of it. They have do again kind of like cheesy youth group thing. They hand out these little index cards and they have us right on this index card whatever it is that we wanna leave kind of at the foot of the Cross and they actually have a guy there's a giant wooden cross and you know like a guy costume that's like supposed to be playing Jesus who's on the Cross and so we have this act of like of pouring ourselves out and then leading. This thing behind well, I started out kind of playing. Kinda. Cool. Like, oh my gosh just kind of cheesy and what are we doing and then one thing led to another thing and I just absolutely kind of the wells bend and I wrote and I wrote and I wrote and I wrote about all this broken nece that I was carrying myself and all of this like sadness that I had about myself that I was just I just frankly felt like I was just too bad. I was too bad. I was too unforgiving. I was too angry that it was just like obviously I could never be loved by by someone else I'm just kind of a bad in a bad situation on a bad person because of it and So all of my friends eventually leave and I find myself just really kind of overcome and I'm I'm writing I'm writing writing and eventually go and I remember I was so ashamed of what I was writing down that I actually remember just. Writing over and over like just layers and layers so. You'll read it. So that was like in the event that someone is going to read these things like it needs to be eligible and then Kinda, like smearing the like you know pencil and making it so that like it was literally impossible than I like folded it up and put it at the base of the Cross in. This this little event was being hosted in someone like backyard kind of like back in the woods. So there was quite a long walk actually from where it was held to kind of up on the road, and so I'm walking down the road I'm by myself. I was like the last person to leave and I'm by myself it's totally quiet on. This lakeside road and I just absolutely have a just completely breakdown just like the weight of the world in of the that what the shame and the guilt and the lack of hope that I was feeling I literally and by the way I was like a very i. never cried I was like a very tough kid you know and so unlike. On. Literally, on the side of the road I just get to a point where I can't walk anymore and I'm on the side of the road and I'm balling I'm just heaving I'm crying and all of a sudden I. Don't I have no idea like how long on the side of the road I feel these arms around me. I just feel like pressure on my shoulders and I feel these arms around me and I'm so distraught I'm so. Broken. I literally don't even look up I'm just like crying I'm so ashamed my head is in my hands and I think I think that maybe it's one of my friends has like come back I. don't even really know what I was thinking in through my tears I say hyg just if I can't I can't. possibly. Understand how I can't forgive how could I ever be forgiven? And I. Just hear a man's voice which surprised me say. You are. And I look up and it's Jesus. It's the guy who had been playing Jesus in the in. So here's his image of me. I'm just literally on the side of the road and I'm being held by Jesus who sang and he just keeps saying over and over again like you are. You are you are no questions no ifs ands or buts like you are like in you know I. Heard Spiritual teacher I think it was Richard Roar say once like the work. Is In accepting you're already accepted. No work is understanding that you are already loved and living out of that belief in out of that truth that like in the chapter of the book is called like you are like you are worthy like you are forgiven you mark good enough. You are God's child you you already are and It's not something that you have to strive for. It's not something that you need. It's not a level that you have to get to. It's not A. Check box like literally if you live out the rest of your life of that belief that like you already have all of that like Jesus went before us. So we don't need perfection like we don't need achievement like we are covered by that. So we are ready are in. We can live out of that piece. We can live out about sense that like our lives don't need to be striving lives can literally be an overflow of like of that of that truth in that belief. Oh those so so beautiful is I thought this was going to be the time you'd think after all this. Writing in a frigging bug, I say without crying but I'd still. I know that's why I mean I could feel the power play. I'm like I've got to tell that story. I think you're talking to a lot of girls. Who Need to know that you know I think we really do by the lie that Yeah Jeeze paid for heaven. But we don't really believe that he paid for here right now. In. So I just WanNa pray for those girls. Would you join me with this Lord? We're just asking that you would. You would meet that girl on the side of her road today. She is she might even have to pull over she's driving listening to this. She might literally need to pull to the side of the road. And Lord, would you put your arms around her? Would you whisper to the deep steepest places in her heart? That you love her that you have paid the price for all of her shame all of her guilt, all of her fear, all of her, not enough newness. What you did on the Cross. Lord. was more than enough more than enough. Lord would you just for all of us? Even those of us who maybe we feel like we've gotten a hold of that. There is still parts of our heart needs to be evangelized by the good news. Which you co Lord. As we just invite you as we receive everything, you did on the cross for us which it goes deep deep places in which put your and your acceptance and then lured by your grace. Would you enable us to receive it a and anew to dating? Lord thank you for Liz. Thank you for what she's doing around the world that we we thank you for these women on the other side of this global we live on and that you are raising up. Lord, would you minister to those girls in Africa just as you're ministering to us in? Would you lord? Which you perform your purposes in us. And just give us the grace to cooperate. And the is to see what you might WanNa do right where we are. In in little ways. That are so big in your kingdom in Jesus name. So good. I every night when I put my son to sleep. We have a few combs that we recite together in an one of them. There's a line that says, there's nothing I can do to make God love me less or more. I don't have to hurry or worry Jesus settled the score and. My prayer for for these listeners today. Soviet. I don't know about you but I love how individually God works in our lives. Did you know that you are not called to live your life like anyone else in fact, God is designed to uniquely and special. There is a a whole world that needs to see you at who you. There's a whole world who needs to see you as you really are. I've found that as I've drawn close to cheeses. He's not only changed me into his likeness and into the fullness of what he met me the FBI. But he's also worked his purposes and as you draw close to him, I can promise you. You're not going to miss what he made you for and you're not gonNA mess it up. Well I'd love to hear what spoke most to you. In today's episode you can leave a comment on the blog and access all of Liz's wonderful resources as well as her book just go to Joanna Weaver books dot com forward slash zero three nine or leave comment over at instagram or facebook you can find me by searching for Joanna. Weaver books. Another idea is to take a screen shot with your phone of this episode and then posted on your social media with the Hashtag living room podcast. I'm going to do my best to search for those comments and respond. Though we probably never met I. Want you to know that you're often in my thoughts prayers. I've been praying that this podcast would not only courage you but also inspire you to draw close to Jesus and then just be available. Because I really really believe there's nothing more powerful than a woman that's fully committed to the Lord. Living in London and leading like Jesus. See. You next time my friend God. Bless.

Uganda Liz United States Liz Bohannon SACO CEO Liz I WanNa Missouri Midwest University of Missouri Joanna Weaver Kepala pinterest Hyder Vera Guinness Plc High School in University Africa
Bone Density of A Sparrow..

Armstrong & Getty

38:51 min | Last month

Bone Density of A Sparrow..

"Feeling lost and we've got the PODCAST for you labyrinths. I'm Christopher Robinson and I'm Amanda Knox I know what? It's like to be stuck to wind up in a life I never expected, but your maze might be a cruise ship your mentor. Husband. So come on, get lost with us as we step into the personal labyrinth of people like Andrew Yang Lavar Burton and Malcolm Gladwin. Listen to lab rinse the iheartradio APP on Apple podcasts. West's. Discussion I just was brought in to run this company and have been exposed to all of this fact and I believe the American people should see this fact I would have much preferred the bind family go on record in defined these facts for the American people in the globe versus me sitting here having a discussion with you on it. That's Tony Bob Alinsky who's involved in the the Biden family finances it would seem easy very well, you're going to hear more from him. He did interview with Tucker Carlson last night. Sixty minutes in the New York Times and Washington Post have not have not been interested in talking to them fact he references then yeah he's indeed the CEO of the joint venture the Biden family had with the Chinese energy company. The very CEO. He did an interview of with the. New. York Post. Yesterday also may see if I can dig that up really fast and he was really confused and angered by the fact that nobody has tried to get a hold of him from all these different organizations. thinking find this real fast shocking yet on surprising. Yeah just so you know the guys you know former naval officer, but his. And his reputation is sterling I mean he is a seem spotless as being. Yeah. Nobody's even accused him of being anything. That would be acknowledging the story allow you said the New York Times had actually sniffed around a little bit. Ross to that piece I, mean He. Is You know at the New York Times they don't just let anything on the in the newspaper I'm sure Ross is afraid for his life at this point I'll bet he's getting a hell of a lot of pushback saying that that it's legitimate the New York Times should be covering this story will the young militants in the newsroom are absolutely screeching at the editor who allowed that opinion piece to be? Written but so here's more of twenty bubbling ski with Tucker Carlson from last night Joe Biden has not denied meeting with you in Los Angeles. Correct correct. Tell us what the conversation that you had with him So I initially was sitting because I got there a little earlier was sitting with Jim Bohannon Hunter Biden and Show through the lobby with his security and hunter basis said, Hey, give me a second. I'll go over and give me ten to brief my dad in read them in on things and so then hunter and his father and security came through the bar and stood up out of respect to shake his hand and hunter, introduced me as This is Tony Dad the individual I told you about that's helping us with the business that we're working on and the Chinese. So it was clear to you that Joe. Biden's son had told him about this business crystal. Clear. And that's not worth digging into it all. he goes on we didn't go into too much detail on business because hunt. Prior. To Joe showing up hunter and Jim had coached me listen. We won't go into detail here says just a high level discussion a meeting. So it's not like I was drilling down joe about cap tables and and and details. And I'd be interested in what you think of all this. By the way, our text line is four, one, five, two, nine, five, K FTC, T. C. Four, one, five, two, nine, five, K C he sat down with Tucker for Jeez. I don't know as several segments I. Don't what it all added up to maybe twenty minutes of conversation. We'll just give you a little bit more the actual business guy here who had management experienced deal experience, but it also sounds like Joe Biden was vetting you to some extent. Yes. Of course like. I, didn't request to meet with Joe, they requested that I meet with Joe and You know he's putting his An Hunter says this in writing was referenced Multiple Times They were putting their entire family legacy on the line. They knew exactly what they were doing. They were dealing with a Chinese owned. Enterprise run by Chairman Ye CFC that had strong financial support and political support from the Chinese Communist Party. That's how it was presented to me. That's not my own words. That's how they presented it to me and red meat on it and my v day being guiltier hundred being Hunter Biden, who was very proud of that and taking credit for it when I sat with him for two hours on the patio, the Chateau more ma proud that they were doing a deal with the Chinese Communist Party will proud that they were that he had to relationship with chairman ye who was running a CFC and the ability for them to get deals done around the world and stuff like that. I was just going to say long story short while he was sitting Vice President Joe Biden participated in putting together a company where his role in exchange for ten percent steak was he would get this Chinese Communist tied energy company meetings with heads of state around the world he touted in particular his relationship with the President of Colombia for instance. And the problem is you know there may be some illegalities, their money laundering tax evasion something like that influence peddling but the problem is he's been lying about it I mean absolutely. One hundred percent lying about it, and the press is utterly and curious. So there's the email that you probably know by now which your some reference about how will hold ten percent for the big guy in this bubble inskeep believes a thousand percent says that Joe Biden's the big guy big guy he could be wrong. I've made assumptions about things before where I didn't even realize I was making an assumption I thought I knew it and then I find out I'm wrong that could happen. But my point is, how is this not something that the the political heavy-weight to the Washington Post New York Times. Look into yeah. Well yeah I it's it's utterly clear to me that the big guys Joe Biden just because Mr Bob Linski said he was repeatedly referred to as the big guy. Right. he did meet with the FBI and there was an email that said, we're GONNA cut. Positive Sean in for ten percent. I mean I don't think there's any plausible deniability that we mean this guy over here. This guy talked bub Linski who talked to Tucker Carlson last night he did talk to the FBI last week he turned over three phones and a whole bunch of emails in that sort of stuff. He was asked by the New York post of He'd made an agreement with the FBI you have a deal with the FBI said, I'm a material witness. I don't need an agreement or a deal. I haven't done anything wrong I zero concern. Yeah. Just telling my story. So the FBI is investigating this right now whether they've looked into it and determined there's nothing to it and already closed it or they're you know getting everything together to make a big giant announcement Next Thursday who knows? because. They're supposed to close these things. They don't find anything without telling. US anything right unlike what Komi did, right? Yeah and they're not supposed to be on the clock for political reasons are supposed to do it. The way you do and you know the political timetables not it's not supposed to play a role. Although I've become aware and following these things now for years and years that often to avoid appearing political, they'll make a political decision because if they didn't make a political decision, it would appear political. So. Well, we're done. It's Monday before the election. Yeah that was a hard work. We really grounded out folks who graduated I'm getting bagels for everyone. no, they'll hold onto it. You know think next Monday morning they think and You're done. Yeah. I. Think I think I've finished here while at. A press conference at the people people are voting early on. Relevant. News a criminal. My reaction is cool. Story Bro I. Voted a week and a half ago. Yeah. The first I seventy, million people that definitely the. Is Why people are still talking about election. I'm done voting. What are we talking about the what now? Exactly where there might be another hundred and twenty million people depends on it depends on how many people enter right and if Joe Biden is handcuffed and manacles shuffling along. The supermax in Colorado that'll certainly hurt him among those millions of people. Telling you. It's GonNa, be sagging his pants in the prison yard push ups so he could win because so many people have voted already shuffling along the orange suit, right? And we have trained together, President Carmela. Law. Maybe, we'll later we'll get into that. The whole Kamla harasses she is you know her laughing about being called a socialist and then going through your voting record she is the most liberal member of the Senate according to the people that keep track of that sort of thing. Maybe, we'll do that later. Yeah. I got some Halloween stuff. I. Want to get to. Her very name makes me feel less alive. I just I it saps the the joy from me. When terrible woman rotten human if that dodgers player who got the covid and then went back went back into the celebration with everybody. Yes. When will we know if that was a super spreader and how long does it take a week? Two Weeks? Well, depends who gets tested because at their age and these guys are kids man a lot of these baseball players are in their early twenties but they won't even know they're sick unless they get tested right and with the series being over now they don't really have a motivations to do daily testing right? There's not. They might just to protect their family because they know about Justin. Turner, if they're bright enough to figure out I, mean they're not there because they're genius they're good at catching and throwing in hidden but. So. It's really difficult to answer that question I don't know Oh. We were urged by a friend of mine to play a clip eighteen. This is the stirring. Ceremony where the World Series Trophy is awarded. Twenty twenty is GonNa be remembered. He's the. Twenty percent capacity fans twenty twenty s going to really make. It baseball season like no other. Our clubs, and especially, our players were presented with an array of unique challenges with at some spirited. Commissioner Suck Boom We're here watch our team I. don't care who you know management people were booing because he sucks. You can't pause when they start to boo it just encourages them. You gotTa keep going. Yeah. Maybe this'll die out. His picture, your paycheck, and keep going out of commissioners not know that yet nobody wants to hear from you. I remember when I was a kid I, super sports and they'd have the woods and then they would bring up the owner. I like what I want that the star player I don't want the owner, the owner, the owner, and the general manager and the Commissioner Boo Boo. Boo. Can't commission anything boo a new, idea heck or commissioner. Don't appreciate your. Administration. Boo. A new copay tests I'm really excited about hope this gets approved in this This would you talk about a game changer got some important Halloween stuff related to costumes and candy that you probably should know I remember we learned last week that the least approved of candy by children most in baked beans. Hand those out. Why did names appealing? Things coming up. Strong. The Armstrong and getty show. Jayme Papa John's announced it will begin offering a new cheeseburger pizza, which will feature a huge portion of seasoned beef melted cheese, zesty pickles and signature burger sauce that story again Thaba John is back and he is wasted. Gi. Seasoned beef. What? Papa John's cheeseburger pizza. Okay. I give it a world. I don't need a blank. Pizza if a cheeseburger pizza I, just WANNA cheese burden. It's a Taco Pizza Gimme Paco. Violent Pizza I'M GONNA have a pizza stopped making things into other things. Yes. In short stop making things into other things. needs to stop good rule. The world's whitest white has been invented. Paint is capable of reflecting heat back into space Take that base creatures. Seem able to paint the top of your house with the world's widest white that help the global warming. Yeah and you know K- keep the heat off your house and. Of course. Yeah. It's capable reflecting ninety five point five percent of all light hitting it. Previously, the whitest whites were around eighty percent. What I wonder if you look at it. I wonder said, well, that sounds a is practically mirror. Yeah Well why don't we just be looking straight into the sun why we want pilots blinded all over America. Down Jim? Why don't we put mirrors on top of our homes. Zuhra reason emerged on them. Maybe. The expense. Yeah. Yeah. I think. So plus the glass glass ceiling seems problematic. Yeah I mean Hillary would be. One long as it keeps the women down, that's old boy. Oh, unfortunate speaking of women Kim Kardashian's fortieth birthday photo has the Internet angry Oh lord apparently she was partying with friends on a private island, which made people very angry if you. Are, part of the Internet gets angry over these celebrity stories. I want you taken prisoner and I want your organs harvested because you're not using them. Agree. I would agree if you're actually angry like you for real. Saturday something like that. Something like this. You and your friends partying and a private island people are struggling for money and food and dying of. Cova. Is Disgusting like if you're actually bothered by that, I agree you should be taken prison prisoner and your. Are I would like at the very least to be drained of their blood in that to begin to accident victims. I'm not you know I'm not sure that's you know kosher I'm not sure it know lives up towards some of my libertarian leanings right to grab people based on their opinions well, mirus their organs for other it could be a private enterprise that does that I'm against slippery slope arguments but that does seem quite quite soapy in slippery. Watch your watch your footing. That's unbelievable. The list of offenses included in the new harvesting or initiative include getting mad over stupid ass on the. And finally this. Somebody wrote into the New York Times for advice, my adult son moved in to nightmare. Can I kick him out? Last summer are thirty something son lost his job and ask if he could move in with us and how long he could stay. I told them depending on how good a roommate he was. The answer has been terrible. He's moody volatile I live on edge because I never know when he's going to blow up, he kicked a hole in a solid door. He's called me many derogatory names told me I was ugly and stupid, and if I don't remember something accuses me of lying. Nice. Son is in a good mood is okay but I never know what to expect. Would it be okay for me to Kim out I feel bad about it I honestly I think when he's asleep you need to. Tighten down and harvest his organs. Me Something to tell us or a lift. Isn't it obvious. Yeah that's that's a terrible situation serve Yousef. I because he read those all the time in those help sort of things insist God Dang it you yes. Kick him out the don't have the. Confidence or whatever to recognize your son is just being a jerk and he's being a jerk because you probably let him be a jerk, his whole life and he is he's a bad personal. It's a shame when you're ready to bet raise a bull raise bad people sometimes hunter Biden. cut. Sure. How pure as the driven snow man? Joe. My read one the other day. this guy's a teenage daughter was in is in love with the boy next door and and dad is against it in wife ask why are you against it and the finally admits well, you remember when we were kind of. Taking time out sixteen years ago that's I knocked up the name. That's that's half of my kid Oh and nobody nobody knew and the wife's best friend the next door neighbor Gal never said a word even. Armstrong, and getty. Qualcomm we believe in staying connected and you can see us wherever five G. is helping transform telemedicine supporting remote education empowering Mobile PC's the invention ages here learn more at Qualcomm, dot com slash invention age. The Armstrong and getty show. took an a lot of tax on What do you think's going on with the whole Biden? Laptop emails thing and the majority of texts have some sort of three dimensional chess theory that this is all part of a plan to end up with Kamla. Harrison's president. that the left is in on also some you know I'm not saying, I believe that I don't believe that. But that's what the most texts were about calendars in on it to some sort of weird. Getting so liars to be president. On. The left media is holding back on this until after the election, they'll drop it yams it as justification to ring Biden. There you go. That's not implausible. It's not what I think. The primary motivation is for ignoring the story, but it's a good backup for what if he's a crook these not going to be president very long he's practically dead. People the newsroom I would simply say that the quote unquote radical left is not a as big of a fan of Kamala. Harris has as many might think. She was a she was not there there pony in the race must you didn't get much votes like this? She was nobody's pony. That's my point that that that she has some. Underbelly of support to thrust her into. The seems odd. So I'd be so interesting she ended up being President I mean she has no constituency but anyway, frank has pointed out that the fans were booing the commissioner baseball because the way he handled the Astros cheating thing. In. The World Series Be Asleep, let the players off to Hook obviously point Frank Nary a great point and we apologize to the entire listening audience for not coming. Nailed it commissioner, suck yes. The Zebedee do Rebecca said she's been listening to show for ten years but turned off today after you announce the defeat of president. Trump. That's interesting I She's still listening right now by you eat rebecca you either need help with your hearing and it happens to all of us as we age that's fine or you've gone round the bend and and we need your help I. Guess this appears to be a thing that people do not want to hear anything that is not positive news about this. I, just I want trump to win if there was something I could do to make trump I would do it but I think he's GonNa lose yeah. Yeah. It's just what the polling shows and and if the pulling wrong then. They gotta do away with polling because it just doesn't work. Oh Yeah. Yeah. Indeed the reason is there are so few and far between places to hear something good about this president that I don't need for you to add to the negative reporting I'm sorry but I'm out we reported that his approval numbers among active duty military members were down Okay. If you can't take that, this is probably not the show for you. That's why I'm starting up the head in the sand news network where we just pretend like nothing's ever happening and it's just all a puppies on skis and. Skiing puppies. But Rebecca I wish you well and God, bless you and your family and friends by by. Little bonus mail here you can email us anytime. You want mailbag at Armstrong, and Getty Dot Com maybe you have an opinion you like share maybe it's linked to something you think we ought to be talking about. This is a chilling chilling note from Brit. Heard Sean. Challenged. Jack with a football addiction versus video game addiction comparison Jacks Response of Exercise Jog my memory we have a friend who son spent so much time indoors he enlisted in the military you went to boot camp. He was hospitalized with fractures of both of his legs due to low low bone density and strength and the military doctor told the young man's mommy sees this all the time. Video game boys coming into training simply can't handle the weight and taxes a tax to the bone structure. Their week physically, we is there a different way to handle those people though? talking to a woman I know the other day she was in the military but she was in for her computer. Oh, she got on the subject and she wasn't very good on the shooting range and she really struggled with that and everything. Yeah. Because our eyesight very sings she said, but I was in the military for my computer skills. Right and she said if I get down to where I got to shoot a gun, things have gotten really bad. Yeah and Same thing with a lot of these computer people are I'm thinking they're not going into the military going to be used in the military for their bone strength anyway in flight a drone better than anybody else from Atlanta Georgia. Wiping out of members in the desert in Syria I don't carry your bone strength is it does seem awfully civil war era ish that if somebody's like a gifted intelligence analyst, you'd kick him out because he can't do fifty push-ups. I? WanNa look at spy satellites if our computer geeks who are trying to hack into the Chinese military computers. Are at the point where they're carrying one hundred pound sacks a hill we're we're so far dying overusing Gary African. It's time for you know hide your guns and then wait for the insurrection is there. Is there an answer to that military people I? It seems like you ought to have two different tracks. For ten but people are going to not do anything physical ever. Yeah. What the hell difference does it make text line four, one, five, two, nine, five, K FTC. is there another organization where like the dodgers? Would cut a promising shortstop, 'cause can't pitch. August I'm here to play shortstop actually to fire all of the the sales people at the various radio stations were privileged to be on because they can't do an entertaining show said, they're not going to be asked to maybe they've already thought this through and they probably have but it seems like you ought to be recruiting computer geniuses and saying look, you're never going to have to touch your gun. Yeah. Robot designed you'll never touch a gun. So if you're like gun scare me fine, we want you in. The US army to do this thing or you're going to be this is what your rooms are going to look like you're gonna sit at a table and type in the coolest computers that exist on earth the for the future fighter pilots is much less Tom Cruise and top gun and much more fred savage from from the WHIZ I. Don't know if you remember that video game movie but I think like drone pilots are going to be the new fighter pilots, you're going to have to have the physical. Things that you used to have in order to fight war, you have to be able to put up with one G as you sit at your your console that are in new, Mexico. yeah. I mean the military's in the Norm Asli Complex Organization obviously in the vast majority of people in the military will never shoot a gun in anger. No. Even if we're at war, even if we're at all out, well, I suppose we'd recruit a hell of a lot more infantryman I'm but yeah, that is am I missing something obvious here. Or is it just partition US my? that. That's my guess items like a bad idea. If we got some four hundred pound guys agreed as hacker in the world but is scared of guns and and just wants to eat cheetos wally all these hacking Chinese computers. Let him do it. Yeah. Absolutely, taxpayer. With Me Yeah. Fine with me. Of course, he'll be dead soon if he doesn't lose a little weight. Hacking until then. It's true. Burn bright that Cheeto man. Out into fade away. When she said those hit if it gets to the point that I need to shoot a gun we we we've got serious problems a great point. Yeah. True. True that because you're somewhere in the united, states typing on a computer if you need to be able to shoot a weapon at a certain number of yards accurately we've. We're in bad shape I know a woman, a young woman who is seriously investigating becaming a military attorney. But would have to clamber over high walls and why down ropes and the rest of why in case there's a fight with the judge. I. Case you have to fight the other side and I don't know. It's an interesting. Maybe we'll get some answers that make it. All makes sense. Yeah. Just like why they were buying Boeing the commissioner and we couldn't figure it out meanwhile sean congratulations on getting through the segment without both your legs breaking. Game. So much I'm forced myself to work out I don't become you got the bone density of Aspera over. Deanna says. Joe. That's me. Hi everybody. Please stop referring to Gavin Newsom, the governor of California Cornea, Pretty Pretty Gavin newsom every time you do get the he picturing him well. First of all and she has more to say and it's great. But when I use that term. You are repulsed. Perhaps I'm better at my job than you give me credit for. That's the point anyway at forty as a forty something woman who's had plenty of unwanted advances in my. Gavin sets off that creep radar that tells women to stay away. He reminds me of a pervy uncle that might rub your leg at Thanksgiving Oh Jeez shift the is in slicked back greasy hair and as a hairstylist, I can't go for that. No can do. Flynn Colin oates reset. Thanks for the entertainment, the Anna Miss Right back at Ya Deanna? Hilarious. That's funny. I mentioned handsome Gavin from the other day in my household. My wife said thinks he's handsome. Gavin newsom maybe guys think he hands women don't I've known people like that. Well, ladies whether you want to email us mail bag Armstrong and Getty dot com or or text for one five, two, nine, five, T C do you get the PERV vibe? Oh. Put kind of for on. Site Gavin Kill Soci- eight myself this why what's a major political figure gives crab women do you think he's some sort of Predator? ME. I. Wouldn't. That about me. I WANNA know if I've hired a PERV. That's perfectly legitimate. I won't have you listen what do you Blanche Dubois over there you're going to have the vapors. This is these are serious. This guy is assumed dictatorial powers over the most populous state in the union. Ladies may be a niece thyroid cordray thanksgiving and he was your uncle. What do you think would happen? Would you keep your value away from him? Guys. What does Dr fouts use a cloth mask? Question different kinds of cloth masks. There are I have a feeling. He has a good one, but we've had a couple of doctors way in and say guys Different kinds of surgical masks are the one is like ninety percent affect ears surgical masks have a American society testing and measuring level. The higher, the level, the more fluid protection it provides. Level three blocks out ninety eight percent of fluids. Level two is ninety five. Almost the same level of protection I had to internet search level one because I've never used it. As Dr results stated anywhere from no fluid resistance to ninety percent fluid resistance I'll bet we had some of those. We've got to Maskhadov cheapen crappy I don't use them partially because the little things snaps off every time you try to put on your head. But they don't do much good. Yeah. Those are the cheapest ones that exist that don't even have elastic. They just have like stretchy fabric and then they rip. If your concern or get in in ninety five massacre actually respirators which seal against the face, you'd better feel. Like the medical mass that have the little wire in the tops, you can form it around your nose would have to be better. Yeah. I've got a handful and ninety five masks that I got I. Think it was during the horrendous wildfires of couple years ago and I was doing some like large scale sanding of painted surfaces. I'm glad to have those if the if the gets bad I mean you go with that although the problem with those is they have exultation. Filters the one I got from painting, which means it protects me but not you poor bastards so. Of course, if people don't know that I get away with. It. We moving along a we ought to take a break. have an undecided voter defending himself. Okay. You you you. You said some harsh things by voters really responsible. He can stick around here this because he's got nothing else to do you be on higher level. I'm not calling you a niece groper or anything, but I was Outta line. What what the hell are you doing if you're an undecided voter, he will explain himself and he will apologize to Mr. State. This is three witnesses we have before this committee today collectively pose I believe the single greatest threat to free speech in America and the greatest threat we have to free and fair. Elections. Ted Cruz involved in the grilling of the tech media heavyweights. I don't know where this is all going to go. They do control a tremendous amount of information. Yes. Yeah and as we've learned in the Joe Biden Energy deal story. Because, that's what it's really about the power to ignore a story is enormous power. If you're media empires big enough, but the libertarian view would be well, something will come along to. Counter that it just might not be as fast as you want. Yeah Anyway. The slightly in the way the Fox News came along and now dominates cable news because there had been such an unchallenged left bias for so many years Yeah. Yeah I, do I not for not for any particular I. Just wire you through jailing a mark Zuckerberg and harvesting his organs to be completely honest No I I'm just for calling them out for what they are I'm I'm for informing people what they're dealing with. but. We have. We'll get into together some great tape Jack Dorsey of twitter and in particular is in an indefensible position having sent sort actively censored the New York Post story. Paulie undecided voter rights. On I'm an undecided voter who does not identify as a Dullard. The I believe you suggested that anybody who's undecided this point is indeed a Dullard feud Dullard self identify as such. It's almost it's almost a self indictment. I'm all I'm undecided not because I don't know who to vote for trump but because I don't WanNa, have to light all my liberal friends about who voted for. Twenty nine year old political science major born and raised in Seattle Washington, and also a closet conservative. The vast majority of my church fringe group is very outspoken about their hatred for trump knocking only smile and nod so much before being forced to share my opinions, these people mean the world to me even though we don't see eye to eye on anything political, which should be normal in the past I voted libertarian not as a protest vote not only as a protest vote. But also to avoid these partisan discussions, I don't want to lose any friends that Cetera et Cetera. I you know none of your blanket business it's a secret ballot for reason as a perfectly reasonable reaction or lied to them if you feel like it's megadeal. Yeah I better friends but. I'm not saying that most undecided voters aren't dollars but that the partisan times live and make it hard for all people to be decided about who to vote for when the pen meets the paper I. Don't know if I've ever had a friend asked me who voted for. Oh Gosh certainly, nights can come off certainly not a common thing. No, I don't remember ever asking anybody in the meantime you vote for. Can't imagine asking the galling that sits intrusive and I'm going to make for you and your wife have great. How big is your unit? In the meantime, I'll keep trying not to wt Wfan the white flag on life a lot of. Feeling, a little look will find. These days. that's a little obscure. I. Actually this is a good illustration of the differences judicial philosophies that are floating around out there. It's a nice note from Jordan some quotes from the justices on extending voting deadlines. There are a number of cases. There are hundreds of cases being filed right now, having to do with voting rights and when people count the ballots and how soon and how late they can come in and still be counted states all over the country. There have been a couple of big decisions in Pennsylvania and Michigan I'm sorry in in Wisconsin. But Jordan rights I don't see how Elena Kagan's argument in school thought hold any water is considered a legitimate position to take. She said as the cove pandemic rages the court has failed to adequately protect the nation's voters meaning she believes the court should have the right to rewrite voting laws. When it's clearly established by the Constitution the state legislatures are in charge that Neil gorsuch on the other hand said, no one doubts that conducting national election amid pandemic pose serious challenges. But none of that means that individual judges may improvise with their own election rules in place of those, the People's representatives have adopted. That is the difference between conservative justice and a liberal justice. It's not about the outcome it's about the way they see their job think that's a great illustration of that Jordan. Thank you for sending it. Then this note from a motorcycle Toy Ron, an annual tradition they have declared it they were told that they couldn't do it. They've declared it an elves live matter protests boy. So the bull spit covert rules are exempted. Leave it to bikers to find a way around a new SELENA's reign of Terror Californians. Apparently, they weren't going to let people ride motorcycles outdoors. It's an assembly novel simply for something, a gathering which we learned is it's when people are in the same place at the same time according to the definition given to us by the state. That's five, their leave and somebody comes in our later. That's a gathering. Yes, it is. WHOA. No. Wait now no, that is not a gathering. is this going to be on the test now if I'm at home in Jack, is here at the same time that is no, I'm sorry that is not again. I think I'm starting to get a cab Oh golly almost makes you want to wave the white flag on life. So I believe is it the Sunday after Thanksgiving the biggest travel day of the year getaway day the Wednesday before is crazy and everything like that I suppose that won't be much this time around It is. It's well I'm sorry. I it so happens that we're meeting little d our youngest for a little celebration she's flying Thanksgiving Day 'cause it's much cheaper and easier than the movie state numbered. That's a reduced number of flights to so. Not, sure Armstrong and getty. On this season obscured, we will go back to the streets of Victorian White. Chapel follow the trail of Jack The ripper will join the police in their attempts to solve a series of brazen and brutal murders as they tried to make sense of the violence taking place writes in their midst, and we'll explore the allies and homes where a series of monstrous murders became the most infamous true crime story of modern history unsecured season three premiers on Wednesday October seventh subscribed today on Apple podcasts iheartradio or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Joe Biden Armstrong Jim Bohannon Hunter Biden New York Times getty Commissioner Tucker Carlson Trump Apple Washington Post dodgers FBI Hunter Biden Biden York Sean Kamla FTC America
Episode 696: Taraji P. Henson

Relevant Podcast

1:21:12 hr | 1 year ago

Episode 696: Taraji P. Henson

"From the creators of relevant magazine. This is relevant podcasts. Some take me on. It's Friday, April fifth nineteen minutes, relevant podcast. I'm your host Cameron Strang in here with me in our Orlando studios on the ones and twos are less serious engineer. My brother, Jaylen slope on these Skype line from lover lay in Virginia, Jesse Kerry, a low low joining us from Nashville, Tennessee, our senior editor Tyler Huckabee everybody and sitting in for the whole show today. I guessed celebrity cast member, Liz foregin Bohannon. Welcome happy to be here guys for okay before we get to know. Liz, I tell you about what's coming up on the show. I want to tell you that today's episode is brought to you by squarespace. Whether you need a landing page a beautiful gallery, a professional blog or an online store. It's all included with your squarespace website, creating your site with squarespace is a simple intuitive process. You can add an arrange your content and features at the click of a mouse, you can even design a best in class online store with square spaces award winning templates, customizable, settings and more all without a single plug in for nationally. Recognized brands to your favorite local shops square spaces trusted by hundreds of thousands of savvy shopowners around the world, including all the tools you need to track inventory process orders and send custom emails with one intuitive interface. Squarespace commerce allows you to understand every aspect of your business. Good a squarespace dot com slash relevant for free trial. And when you're ready to launch your website, use the offer code relevant to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website, or domain squarespace that your website apart. But like I said joining us for the whole show today is Liz foregin Bohannon from Portland, Oregon. She is an entrepreneur. She's a speaker. She's a podcast her she's founder of Saco designs fashion brand started to enable high potential talented young women in Uganda to continue onto college. Welcome. That would flick. That was good. I should take you on the road with me. You know, what do you guys watch veep? Was also really well-spoken. Be amazing. Separate Gary from being very poorly spoken, and my my this is a real clash of vibes. So Rowe relevant podcast network listeners might know, Liz because she was a guest cast member on season two of the love and money podcast. Right. Yeah. Try and she is working on launching her own podcast coming up soon. TVD? She's also about to release her first book tell us about well. First of all tell us about the book. And then also tell us about Saco designs. Okay. Well, I'll tell you that takeover I because the book alludes so Saco as you mentioned is a socially conscious fashion. Brand. I started Saco almost our ten year birthday is this summer, which is pretty wild. It's also comes about two months after my ten year wedding anniversary. So you can do some math in envision what the first year of our marriage was like we have been. Within year. Months of one another. I would recommend it high lead to any newlyweds for sure. So I started taking I moved to Uganda when I was twenty two I had a master's degree in journalism and wanted to be human rights reporter and moved to Uganda to learn more about the issues that we're facing women and girls living in extreme poverty and really long story. Short ended up meeting. Some incredible young women in between high school university that tested in college but couldn't afford to go. And so my new kind of mission in life became figuring out a way to bridge the gap between high school and university for these young women in I started a charity. And then realized I couldn't start a charity in that we need to be investing in neutrally beneficial marketplace solutions to solve some of the world's most interesting problems started a chicken farm that failed in invented a Paris strappy sandals in that miraculously kinda worked and ten years later, we are a full on women's lifestyle fashion brands. So we sell the product through a network of. Of female entrepreneurs here in the US that enable women in east Africa in around the globe to go on to school and pursue their dreams in that sago. Was I feel like I just got a ninety second tedtalk in. It was also. I guess this is the first time you've given the elevator. Oh. That was definitely that was so on the fly, and I've never said any of that before just real only the freshest material for you guys in the relevant podcast question. You said something in there that I just I'm just really curious about let's go back to the failed chicken farm, really. I know it's an asterik, but it seems like kind of an important one. I just want to hear what point. This is not what was the point where you said this has failed. Did they all Di did they get out? Like what happened? This is a great question. I would love to tell you that. There were no chickens harmed in the making of this lifestore. Two things. One is the more boring answer that it just economically didn't make sense. It was like to do agriculture. You kind of have to do it at a certain scale. I was bootstrapping his company had three women that I promised to help kind of bridge this gap between high school and university. And the math just didn't work out. This second thing is that I woke up I was probably I don't know. How long I worked on at work couple months. Maybe six weeks in literally every morning that I woke up I dreaded my existence. I was just like there was like nothing in me. You guys I have just come to realize. I don't know how much you've been like up close and personal with chickens. It's a love you either love it or you hate it. Wig me the Greek out gross. And they're like did very unsettling head movement. So the funny thing is I now live in Portland, Oregon, and I live on an urban commune. That's a whole different story. It's a little bit of a strong word. But we joke and say, that's what it is. And of course, because we live. Is it an apartment complex, and because you're in Portland, you guys call it an urban commune, exactly. I'm just getting no we own property with our friends in. We built like we bought one kind of single family unit or piece property in we build a couple we built three skinny houses on the on the one property, and we share all that end because we're in Portland in. We're living in an urban commune. Of course, we have to have chickens, and they're like war the bane of my existence. It was like I would wake up every morning in here these chickens in it just was like this painful reminder of my failures. There are failure. And then they all died in there. The joke in our communities that I slowly one by one killed off all of. They all. Yada, yada died over like, here's I know. I'm going to get some angry people that like are mad about me. Not being nice about animals, but one morning, I did this was completely on accident. We also have a dog, and I let the dog accidentally into the chicken pin in. It was bad. It was bad. And it was like five thirty in the morning, and I'm like screaming bloody murder because I'm like, I need someone to come help me save the chicken, but in my head. Unlike kinda sad for the chickens, but I'm really sad for myself. I'm like, no one is an accident. You can't make so many jokes about killing the commun- chickens in then be the one that lets the dog into the pins. Means opportunity. It doesn't look good for you. This does not look good. How's your about this? First one is failed chicken farm is a great band name. And I call it. Yeah. It's gonna be awesome. We're gonna be like an avant garde. Indie rock van failed chicken farm. Also, I told I told this story before my buddy he had the same. He had the same impulse lows. Usually he's going to build a chicken coop in his backyard. And you know, he spent all this money on this like fancy chicken house, and he bought chickens and feed in the whole all the all that. And I was like dude, why are you doing this dude think he's got he's got like four kids, and he's like think about in the long run how much I'm going to save on eggs, and I'm like, dude eggs are super cheap, which is a dozen eggs, like three bucks. Yeah. So G. Yeah. So, you know, we're we're talking decades of chicken farm ownership before you start seeing return on this week one. He goes out there one thing. He's like thank God. I got up the the earliest because I looked in the backyard, and it was like someone had like a like a box struck full of feather pillows. Loaded in my backyard. He's like there is nothing. But feathers everywhere, evidently, like a weasel or a FOX or something got back there and just slaughtered all of them. He said it was just a massacre. He's never seen anything like it. And that was literally a week after owning the chicken. So I think you're alone in your hatred of that venture, Liz. Yeah, I feel alone. But I think that we're just a silent majority. Like, I think that people in our country don't feel the freedom to be honest about their feelings of chicken. The specially not in Portland, Oregon. Are you kidding me? I can't emit that. I don't want chickens that puts me on like a Portland terrorist. Watch list, though, these are not emotions that I am allowed to express freely in my community. So instead, I guess I'm just doing it on a national platform, which seems dangerous to me in. My family is is a backyard chicken the official bird of the state of Oregon because I feel like it should. Should be. It's either that or back or front yard goat. That's a big trend here. Couple of weekends with some girlfriends confirming all of your stereotypes about Portland right now. Don't worry. We're gonna do. Go yoga. Is where you go do yoga goats wander around a lawyer yoga. This is a thing. Wallpa- pay good money to do this. While you're doing your like junior downward dog, and they can like stand on your butt. Thing. You're exactly right. We have a great show coming up for you today. Joining us later taraji p Hinson joins us. She stars as cookie Lyon in the TV hit empire as well as films, like Hidden, Figures, hustle and flow. She also stars in the new movie, the best of enemies that tells the true story of civil rights activists and atwater it releases today and to celebrate the release of the movie she is joining us on today's podcasts. So it's pretty exciting. Liz before we move on to the hot list. I have a couple of leftover table topics cards here in front of me from last week's podcast, and I'd like to lob them to you a little bit better. Okay. All go yoga lists foregin Bohannon. Tabletop number one. How do you measure success? Oh my gosh. Start out with something a little more. Seriously. Okay. How do I measure success? I think I believe deep in the kind of most core part of mine, gut the every human is created on purpose and for purpose. And I think success is about living life. It will push you closer to becoming more of who you are created to be. Come on now, preach, Liz foregin Bohannon Bohannon. What habit of yours what habit of yours needs to change ASAP? Oh, what had it? Oh, probably. Founding hygiene related I won't get into details. I mean, I just like, I should probably watch my hair more. Okay. Especially if you're going to be rolling around in the dirt with goats that seems seems like hygiene, it's off the first thing you want to go go yoga's part of the mix. The Liz foregin Bohannon. Do you do others perceive you differently than you are do other? That is such a good question. I think yes, I do not find myself to be the most self-aware person. It's an interesting thing. It's something that I. Not being self aware has incredible benefits in your life. And then it also has disadvantages hustle. So it's an interesting thing that I'm like, I actually don't want to get rid of completely because I find because I can be a little bit unaware of things on how people are perceiving me that it actually creates a sense of freedom that I think some other people don't experience that. It's like I can kind of just be who I am. It's like people are like aren't you of making people mad or aren't you prayed of this? And unlike I actually just have such selective. Perception of what's going on around me that I don't know. I just don't find myself to be very aware of those things. So it creates a lot of freedom. However, there have been times in my life, where someone will perceive me in a specific way that feels very different than how I felt in the moment in that. Never feels good. We're like, no. That actually wasn't what I was trying to communicate. So yeah, I do think that there's a little bit of a difference between how I'm perceived in. Uh-huh. Might intentions in a situation. Okay. Liz Bohannon if you're feeling low what's your feeling better? What's your trick? Oh my gosh. This is like so cliche in probably not interesting. But my my kids my babies, I just feel like there is. Just turning off my phone getting really up-close like just hanging out with my kids going to a park. I have yet to experience something that is not the centering antidote of just like this is life in this is like what matters. And I want to be totally president right here in this moment in specific. I mean, my kids just have this magical ability to kind of bring me back to the present in center me. And it's so fun. Beautiful answer. We also would accept it. Just the feeling of leading a dog run loose through the urban combat. Really? Curtis leading nature run. Its course. Nature. You know, helping my dog feel it's true purpose and calling in life and do what it was created to do playing a little bit of Phil Collins circle of life. Isn't that cons in line? Cain, avs. I let the dogs murder chickens. Picture you like in the back of a town car with the windows rolled down like just watching distance. And you see the dog walk in the chicken coop. And you see like the Tasmanian devil. Cloud of feathers dirges. You're like it's done. But go. His shot of me, and like the rear view mirror. Just like in the horizon shot of me driving off into the distance. I am this is becoming quite maniacal. Liz for combo here that we know you grew up in Missouri. Right. Final question who was your Nisus in school? Who who is my nemesis? And let's call them right now. Battle would be a so, okay. There were a few people who. Okay. So this is a story that I just remembered they are was a boy in my class. This is actually a really sick. I don't know if I recall my nemesis, but in my like own personal narrative, he definitely is the only person I can think of middle school who has a part when I was in seventh grade this boy, I was like leading our class lip sing which was a big deal. When your seventh grader. In front of all of my friends in like everybody in the class. He called me a feminazi and all that. Great political. Yeah. He went to school with a young Tucker Carlson. Carlson. And anyway, the nickname might kind of stuck and joke in like every time that I would like speak up or be loud or be quote unquote bossy someone will be like oh for Nazis here. It was pretty formative for me. It was like the thing that I think at such an early age. I I was like one what does that? Even mean, you know, when you're like somebody calls, you something, and you don't know what it means in your thirteen. Obviously pretend like you do. And then you go home, and you try to figure it out. So it's like fem in Halsey. Like, what does that even mean? And it really sent me into this kind of like spiral of thinking about like gender and power in like, why is it that when I speak up, and I'm loud, and unlike leading a group of people, I I'm being like shamed. In crawled the superintendents name. But yet when this guy does the same thing on everyone's like, oh my gosh. She's such a leaner look at him. And that was really formative to me in. I I would credit Bradley this kid with Kenna sending me on a path of interest in curiosity that was actually pretty formative. But at the time, I just hated him. I thought he was awful. And I dreaded seeing him in the hallway, and maybe I could call him. It sounds like someone. Bassy work in the current White House administration. Sounds future for this young. There may be some familial connection. Is that is such an interesting story to me like this kid was threatened by your strength. So he tried to like, you know, elevate himself by knocking you down. There's a whole thing there. But like the fact that you actually, I'm in subconsciously or maybe consciously embraced it and saying, no, I am a strong female in not going to be let you put me in my place, or whatever. And now you are. I mean, look at your life story since then I mean, you have achieved and created and led then your enacting change and changing lives. And I mean it I mean, I don't know like, it's really cool. I mean, it's funny that it goes back to that in that moment was right there top of mind right under the surface. Maybe I should call him and thank him. I actually did this maybe too graphic for the internet. I don't know if I can say this out loud, you guys look at it. If you can't okay. So he so he was credited with giving me this nickname in. This was like a few years later because this happened in middle school and then in high school, he was still a little but. But they. We. Not in my. I got a group of girlfriends together we could drive at the time. We went to Sam's Club and bought light ten packs like those like massive old school maxi pad, the ones that are like three inches thick and balk catch up, and basically like the his house, and this was my like, you wanna like you wanna talk about you want to shame me for being a woman, and it felt like a very I had a streak of indicative vandalism in my history of few bullies. Also kinda went after my sister when she was in the middle school and may have gotten similar treatment. So anyway, that was my way of dealing with. We're in a print court. This was an actual vengeance. Lilies. Over I feel like I should not have told that story. It's very weird. If very weird you've given a lot to a lot of people just now. But I, but I love this interesting part of you that you streak vindictive vandalism which started in high school and up until recently when you released a dog in the chicken coop. Seems to be a through line in your life story this story that you could tell against me in the court of wall against the chickens is only getting stronger. Here's the thing though to your point like about how influential it wasn't my life, though, Cameron light. So not to be all pop culture us, but I'm going to go into the eager Vam. So I'm an eight on the Graham so much knowledge air show. Are you? Sure. That two out of you. Yeah. But it makes me think like that experience elicited like I I wanted to challenge this in specifically this guy who kind of represented this boys. But I thought often throughout that like, I know I when I felt shame. It inspired me to kind of be to kinda dig into that until like one a challenge it. But I know that that's not how a lot of people operate in. It was really powerful. It's been a driving force in my life that it's like how many twelve year old girls get publicly humiliated in reaction is just to retreat like don't speak up again don't risk million again like it's not worth it in. So that does feel it. There's a part of me that kind of feels like for whatever reason. With this kind of odd spirit in like, it feels it feels imperative to me that it's like, I I don't ignore that part of who I was created to be because I know that that a lot of people don't naturally react in that way in it does feel feels like there's kind of like a sense of responsibility in that. Because I think about the amount of probably twelve year old girls that had really similar experience, but that caused kind of opposite reaction in that feels really significant to me. Yeah. Who did it, and you and you said like you kind of like stood up for your sister? When she was bullied, and like you like, I'm not gonna let interesting and even the work you're doing like standing in the gap for the young women in Uganda that you're like I'm going to help, you know, like, I will your your economic situation, or your culture your situation, isn't allowing you to thrive. I will stand up and help you thrive. Like, it's like you have this through line of like standing up to the oppressive forces in your life. You know, what I mean or that are out there? And that's why any Graham was really enlightening for me is just recognizing. How aids are so in there, not only incredibly attuned to power and power dynamics in recognizing what the power dynamics are. But then it's like night trigger is seeing power abused, you know, ink any capacity. So whether that's with against my nine year old sister weather. You know, or it's more systematically globally on a policy level about injustice in lack of opportunity for women and girls globally, doesn't really matter. What the scale is. I have come to know in myself that is like a massive trigger for me when I see a power imbalance in when I see our being abused gyms. Like, it's a very gut like visceral reaction bit. Luckily, ten or twenty years later, I have refined a little bit. So I'm happy to say, I'm no longer vandalizing people's homes with maxi path is the step in the right direction vindictive doing random those. Still. A little wheel of everybody that I know on it that I just spin on a weekly basis is much more free spirited these days. Do you know whatever happened to your bully? I'm assuming prison, I'm assuming I'm assuming you framed him. The White House, actually. I actually looked him up on Facebook. Because I talked about the story in my book. And I tried to find him on Facebook in shockingly, I actually couldn't. So I have no I have no context. I really wanted to use of name in the bug my poker. It's like, no you can't do that. So I had to use a vague name. Up by old Boeing on Facebook, just curious I think we're talking about in the day alike, who is your like wizard childhood nemesis, and looked up my boy thinking that all those old like stories about how you know, they they ended up like miserable while unit successful true. It's like he's doing really well. Looks happy wife. Nice kids because you have to really rewarding job looks like he's doing he's a banker something banker with a lot sports cars. I I could tell Facebook he's real drag just a real drag out and find my guy. All right. Well, it was fun. Good to know. Liz, stay tuned. Coming up next the hot list. Two fits in the tantrums his one two three four five six, which is how I test my mic level at the beginning of the podcast. You heard foster the people with style. Okay. It is time for. It's. Still still that comfortable with the items. We're talking about this week in the Hollis. And that's the only time yacht rock is going to come. Number five this week on the hot list Steph. Curry NBA superstars Steph curry is bringing competitive mini golf to television. He's continuing his second career as a Hollywood mogul and his teaming up with ABC for a new new show called, holy moly, which will feature golfing newsya squaring off to win twenty five thousand dollars steps going to executive produce the show through his company unanimous media, which he launched to create faith-based and family friendly television shows and movies based in the world of sports. He also served as its resident golf pro on the show unanimous co Jared Smith told variety this week, we aim to use entertainment as a vehicle to bring families together. And this show will surely bring laughter enjoyment of households around the country in explaining his vision for unanimous Steph told a variety, it's not about me hitting people over the head with a bible and telling them, they have to believe a certain thing or think a certain way, I don't mind being called corny. I'm comfortable with who. I am Steph curry everybody. See here's here's what I'm curious about. He says that he says that competitive mini golf is gonna bring families together in my experience, it rips families apart, I come from a very competitive family, and that mini golf course. It's every man it's every person in the family is on their own team. And we put a couple of dollars on every hole at the end of it. No, one saw Canadia eve anybody. It's it's a disaster. Every time I wanna see how he's gonna bring this together unifying force. Also, I want to be on the show, very very bad. Like, this seems like like, yeah. So many of these reality shows are so high stress, you know, survivor Santer on polls for like four days. Liz, you are on shark tank. One time, you know, having a look. Yeah. So stressful. I would so much rather play mini golf. I mean, imagine if there's some sort of hybrid between competitive, mini golf and shark tank. I mean, like the whole one you get the funding. I don't know. Your job dropped. I saw when Cameron read this new. You looked very very excited. Does does mini golf hold a special place in your art, Missouri, Missouri? That's all there is that. Stop it. Okay. So. Koreans, but I think he's a sportsperson. Right. One of the. He is. Hanan. He has an NBA superstar his a multiple time champion scoring champion MVP. He's won the best basketball players in his. Yeah. Okay camera and you need to be gentle because I just I'm I'm revealing my true cell of which is that. I just I was like as soon as you said Steph curry, I was like I think he's a sportsperson in. Now, I'm not gonna be able to participate in the conversation in venues that many gall. And I was like I'm back in the gay. No, mini golf. I can be part of this. It was less about a passion for many gafa. You know, I had my fair share of many experience than it. Just felt it felt good to be to be a part of the gang again. Go to number four this week on the hot list. Johnny swim are fringed. I swim there on the cover relevant last fall Abner on the current episode of unedited new Johnny swim has a new song that released this week featuring a collaboration with Michael McDonald the songs from their new album moonlight which comes out April nineteenth so market calendars. And it has kind of like, I don't know the the king, you we could all agree that Michael McDonald is the king of Iraq. I don't even know who the prince would be right Abner when he was talking to me on unedited about the show or about the song. He was saying like he wrote the song on there in the studio, and they're like this hook humanity. Like like when when they wrote it they were like here. Like, Michael McDonald? Sing it. You know? Would it be crazy? We get Mike without and then like, sir. They were able to track them down. He said, yes. So here's a clip of Michael McDonald on the new Johnny swim song the last time here it is. I like how you told that story because in my mind Abner Mandar in the studio with recording engineer new like they were like, you know, who would be awesome. You know to be guest on this, Michael McDonald? And all of a sudden, he just appears he's. He's. Mcdonald's full you watch even knows. All the pizzas guys here. Then they open the door. He's not delivered pizza. He answers to so Michael McDonald? Moonlight drives on April nineteenth don't want to miss it. Another little loan nugget about the album is Abner MandA just celebrate their tenure wedding anniversary. And as a present for her. He went Abner went in to the studio and wrote and recorded a song called, Amanda. She knew nothing about it. And on their tenure anniversary last week. He played it for for the for sign minutes. And we on the album is in crying. So sweet they're also gives me majoring diety about expectations. I hope has been does not listen to this. Coming up to right right around the corner. And I don't be oh great about. Now. Having that watch into my head is that's awesome. We'll if you start speculating about a Michael McDonald song, he might stop. You need to do further anniversary this year. I got you a special forms by Michael McDonald? And you look around is like, okay he's supposed to appeal. His name context. The music. If you could like higher Michael down to like, those singing telegram things that'd be pretty cool. Having him show up at the house. Little going for surprise pizza delivery. Open the door thinking, you're going to get one thing. And then oh my gosh. It's something totally unexpected young cool. Cool both too. You are who you are you walk into a room with the pizza even better than if you didn't have one. Going to number three this week on the hot list, a prayer by Virginia Tech basketball, coach buzz Williams, went viral, first of all that's a pretty cool first name buzz to cool name general buzz Williams. Nice to meet you Virginia Tech lost to Duke during the NCW March madness tournament in heartbreaking fashion when they missed a layup at the buzzer, which would have won the game for them in the locker room after the game coach Williams and the players laid their hands on the teams three seniors and prayed for more than six minutes. He not only encouraged each of the seniors also passionately prayed for them as they prepare for the next season of life. Here's a clip of the prayer went viral. Thank you for the four years. He's been with this. Thank you. How she support it. Thank you that. He was our first recruiting class believed when there was nothing. To giving great piece. All the decisions that are coming this way. The next seven months fridge, which surrounding with people that have wisdom people that he can trust got to allowing the process all of the different choices. Giving comfort. That is decision is the right one. I watched the whole video. Choked up. It reminded me of the old hotseat. Do you guys ever do the hot seat when you're like in you? The study. The middle. I was gonna lay your hands on and say a prayer nudist youth ball, and you're about to graduate high school friends, praying for you. That's how this was for these three seniors. I got a little choked up good for buzz Williams, turning a sad loss into you know, pretty touchy video their school. All right coming in at number two on the hatless this week Kanye west announced. He's going to host a Sunday service Easter morning at Coachella. He's he was reportedly in talks to headline the festival but backed out over dispute about staging. However, this the festival second weekend falls on Easter Sunday in the Mark the holiday is going to host one of his gatherings that featured preaching gospel, inspired performances and prayer which up until now have been invite only if you I don't know if you recall but last year at Coachella Justin Bieber made a surprise appearance during a Sunday morning service where he led worship at a church home event at the festival. So look at Coachella. You introducing that slice. I went through a range of emotions because it started Khania west. And I was like, oh, this could go any direction anything's possible. Now hosting a Sunday morning Sunday morning things Easter service, that's kind of cool at Coachella. I'm back in. This could go any direction. A lot of things right now. I'm pretty sure like Lord day slain all the festivals this year. So like if she's there I wanna see her come out with Konya and. Yeah. Ankles stranger things, I've enjoyed the clips honestly that I've seen Conde Sunday service. I've so far I think they they look like a really good time. Like, they're having fun. And the music is good, the worship seems genuine. So I'm not opposed this services at all. I just know that that is you just never know what you're going to get with con yet. It's a mystery package. The only thing that would make that Sunday service at Coachella better. Is if right in the middle of the service is like now, my very special guests who he is not Michael. Signal heads just explode every. Hannon's husband and the celebration of their ten. My job. Is done. That's all I need it. All right coming in at number one this week on the hot lists. The Cray had some moving thoughts in this week in the wake of the death of nipsy hustle daily base rapper activist and entrepreneur was murdered outside of a store. He owned last weekend. It's been all over the news and social media this week along with his music. Nipsy hustle is known for his work within the community in scheduling to meet with LAPD officials this week to discuss initiatives to combat gang violence and Instagram video la- Cray, encouraged his fans to continue work that nipsy was passionate about into invest in churches and communities affected by violence. Here's a clip. So I hear about this. This is Bob opportunity to is cert- myself in story, you know, a lot of people Schwann assert themselves in a narrative. This is when I talked to him in our whatever is about this man, and his family and his ideals, and I'm gonna see his ideals continue to thrive. You know, when I stopped drinking alcohol, I started sparkling water over time because I needed a replacement and a lot of us wanna see device whatnot radically from underserved communities, but we not provide. No replaces we not provide opportunities jobs hope purpose faith, and that's what we gotta continue to do. We got to continue to invest in education. Invest in churches, invest in job opportunities and entrepreneurship in all communities. So if breaks my heart to see nipsy pass, but I'm gonna for fact, he want this ideal in his vision to continue going to continue to push. So we got to pick up the mental. I really appreciate it cry. And to like, it shows the other side of him. In addition to be an artist being an artist he is a really gifted like preacher and teacher, you know, just using the analogy he did there of you know, replay, you know, having to replace something bad with something good. He hit to take something bad way, you need to like fill in, you know, kind of those, you know, kind of holes and community, and I appreciate his thoughts. And I've, you know, he's been doing a lot of speaking churches in different events in. I the he's really gifted at that. And that was some really powerful concise thoughts in the wake of a real tragedy. All right. Well, that'll do it for. You. All right next to Raji p Hinson joins us. Listening to Grimes song is pretty dark. Terachi P Hinson is an award winning actress and bestselling author known for her roles in films, like Hidden Figures, hustle and flow and the starring role on the show empire. As cookie in her new film, the best of enemies, which releases today, she plays civil rights activists and atwater who helped desegregate schools in North Carolina in the nineteen seventies. In whose unlikely friendships with K K K leader named C P L S led to him leaving the racist organization and actually working alongside her our very own. Tyler dazzling talked with Terachi about the film and the role that her personal faith plays in her career. Welcome Tyler thanks for having me. Tell us tell us about it. Yeah. It was it was fun talking to Troger because she's been in so many different kinds of stuff. She's kind of been in these sort of like romantic thrillers lifetime. Daytime kind of stuff, but she's also been the star of action movies in these historical dramas like hidden. Figures, and she was in curious case of Benjamin button. So her career has been really really diverse, and I was curious how that diversity contributed to her outlook and perspective. So here's what she said. I think that thing got in know about myself, you know, at tap into how closely at pay attention. I, you know, I people watch all the time, and I'm watching expressions, and I'm the person weirdo in the restaurant looking and I'm trying to figure out that I date are they are they their body language at me. So amazes me how much of it sticks. Like when I'm in the moment. I don't have a notebook wag Wagau. Ooh, I'm never however on it. Just I collected all in my head. And then when it's time to you that amazes me that it comes out so quick like, wow, I had had that in the store Bank. I didn't know the the the self-discovery side of acting is always fun for me to hear about. It's. Foofoo feeder. But it really does take people the head spaces. They might not have otherwise I'm always always people watching and trying to figure out what the story is. But I'm not an award-winning actress, you know, so I don't I don't have anything to do with Elvis, you know, but I definitely want to figure all of it out. I should've gone into acting. If that's what it takes to really prepare because I'm always looking to people. I'm like, okay. That woman over there. She's having a very this looks like a tough conversation with what appear severe spouse, I think she just told him that she didn't give anything for the anniversary. And Michael McDonald is not. I can't believe. What drama I'm a little bummed because I actually ran into Toronto hence internet restaurant recently chew scope and me on I thought maybe she thought it'd be like really good in upcoming role in a movie or like that. I could be that. I make it in Hollywood. But now, I see she's preparing for her next role as a really basic white guy on podcast, so. So from there, I was curious if there was a specific role from trod these career that compelled her to think about faith, she's very open and open about being a Christian. So as I was kind of looking for one part that you would connect to that. But she kind of threw me a curve ball. Instead of naming one part. I denounce seventy. She said she said all her roles actually push her in that direction. Here's the clip. Very spiritual person in life period. I don't do anything without talking to God, you know. So that's just I am. And definitely it's all in my work. You know, I think all of my characters I incorporate that in because all of my kids, just come from most of them a lot of them come from these desperate traumatic places. So you need something. So hold onto morally for the characters because I play a lot of morally correct characters there have to be relieved. I mean, although can't for people to believe in trust in the characters, you know. That was those fun for me to to hear about as a creative thinker so often you look at you know, actors and actresses, and they just go all into the role, and they kind of the strip away all these judgments beforehand, but I thought it was really cool that she injects parts of herself into these performances. Yeah. I also love that. She's kind of going against the notion that it's I don't know the whole sacred secular divide that imply came my role is to observe people in as an artist. Try to use night crack to elicit some sense of of truth than isn't all kind of sacred in all spiritual because we're all kind of on that journey path in I loved it. She doesn't really differentiate between that I think that's awesome. Totally. That's such a great point. And I think for audiences it presents. An audience someone they can latch onto a strong away. Then character who just wants power or money or to save their kidnapped son, or whatever there's a little more Niessen under the under the watching. Kerry's kidnap kid. Listen, even child kidnappers are imago day made in the image of them shows killers. Barrel worse. Monster society has to off. None of us are too far gone. But I posed that difference to Terachi that foundational difference. And she had a very cool response. Let's listen acting very spiritual because it's almost like a possession like not in a bad way that like the devil or demon or anything like that. But it's almost say possession. It's it's like. Nutting? These cares is use your body as a vessel. You know, what I mean for that means you have to surrender all of your insecurity render and give over everything about you. That makes you uncomfortable, and you literally have to surrender your cell to the truth of these characters. So that you have to you can't judge you actually have to think like Jesus Buddha. You can't judge you have to love each and every one of the care because if you love them than the audience will have empathy if you mama terror, and if you make the care of your d loving, then the audience will be transitioned they will have a transformation they will have a cathartic moment because I love the character unconditionally. I've never thought that. Yeah. On the surface, this character just seems like someone who had let a dog loose in a chicken coop. And just watch everything pathetic. I if you really know the she's hated chickens for very long. This is the first time Liz is going to join us. Onto too busy. It was great. You wanna come on get? No, no. Very very profound. Fair from the first time. After my. I think that's an amazing. I mean, the thought of acting kind of being this like, alternate, active empathy. I think is really powerful. It kinda makes me about like is there truth that we could take even for those of us who will never be paid her acting skills. Like, there's something about I loved her notion about like being a vessel for creativity or a vessel for that like character. I think about that a lot kind of whip with creativity as artists as a worker. I feel very inspired in humbled and also empowered by this idea. Like, I am unavailable for this thing for this creation for this thing that needs to come into the world. I think oftentimes artists can get like, I don't know we think it's all like it's so much about who we are putting that out into the world. And I think a lot of insecurity in ego in self worth gets pulled into that. And I think if you can say like, I happened to be the vessel for this particular thing to come into the world that is a very empowering kind of motive. Eating mentality for me in it seems really reminiscent of the way that she thinks are acting in bringing character to life of it reminded me of this, quote, I heard once from another actor that acting as the most loving job you can do because you have no choice, but to walk in someone else's shoes. And ju I posed that to Terachi and I loved the way she responded here. It is understanding of love because you have to understand these carry allowed him or dark, you know, someone dark some of them off morally, correct. So you have to find Mandy in them in the why so the audience can impact bag, and that's in life. You know that how you change people's perspective about certain group of people. That really comes through in the new movie to best of enemies. I had a chance to see it. Have you guys been following this movie? Yeah. Sam Rockwell is in as well, right? Yeah. He CPI. He's the KKK leader in Durham North Carolina where the movie takes place, and he and trudges character in atwater. This local civil rights leader, they have to come together to lead essentially a committee deciding if the town is going to have integrated schools in the nineteen seventies. And it's awesome. I my kinda hot take coming out of this movie is I think it handles the racial conversation better than green book does. Well, I think I think it's super good. I also love the way integrates faith. The characters are all very rooted in faith, and those ideas are super present in the movie, but there's no like crazy come to Jesus moment. And you just see how. Their faith informs their decision. Making actually the second scene in the movie like three minutes in at this point is a K K K meeting and Sam Brockwell leads the clan in prayer. And it's presented very straightforward matter of factly. Right. And it's kind of jarring, but it adds layer of complexity that really benefits the movie, I it's such an easy recommendation. I really enjoyed it. That's awesome. I I I like I like it when the like it when historical movies, get it. Right. And then, you know, also get like the religion part of it right in Sony times. When it's like, the it's cartoonish almost like, you can tell the filmmakers never set foot church. And it's like the nail roads. Really good to hear that. They handle it nuanced in new ones way. Halo, right. Yeah. And hey trod. She's awesome. She's really funny in it to full of personality. So yeah. Best of enemies, that's the recommendation for the weekend. Go. Thanks to Terachi for join us. Make sure to check out best of enemies the releases today. Thanks tyler. You bet. Thanks for having me. All right. Stay tuned up next. We have spent well, we'll tell you what's going to happen. Give back. Move upside down, spirituality, by Chad bird invites you to enter World War failures. Success? Endings are beginnings and freedom is found as we learned to submit it may sound counter intuitive. But the truth is Christianity is not just a nicer version of the world we live in. It's a completely different upside down, backward, faith, Chad bird invites you, put your ambitions aside and embrace nine specific failures in the areas of our personal lives. Our relationships and the church with compelling examples from the bible and today bird paints enticing picture of the counter cultural life, God wants us. Get your copy of upside-down, spirituality, by Chad bird today. Wherever books are sold. Mimic to burn up J D S Darko. Okay. Well, this is the part of the show where we do audience engagement audience, and our listeners are participating we've had listener of the week. We've had people call in and a few weeks ago, we did test it out a new thing asked the cast you guys tweeting us questions that then I go through in lob to the cast. I had a lot of fun doing it. I figured we'd do it. Again. We you guys tweeted us at relevant podcast a bunch of questions for the cast this week. Here are some of them you guys ready. Born reading weren't born ready are any of these questions Michael McDonald related to. Those are the only. All right Taylor. Tweet us and asked cast what do you think is the worst advice that church gives the young people? And then maybe what what's the worst advice you've ever received the worst? I mean, that's like a legit question. That's a great question. I don't know. There's a lot that the worst day. The church gives the young people. I mean, I don't know if if it's like. I don't know if it's like advice, you know. But I feel like a lot of times churches will conflict. Why what people do for work with the entirety of their calling? Sometimes I feel like a lot of people will separate will like say. Well, I'm only one I'm only going to pursue this career because I feel called to this one thing, but they kind of like, you know, for a lot of people like I feel like they're calling. They feel like they're calling in's there. You know, like while I'm called to be, you know, whatever their profession happens to be. But you know, I feel like there's a tendency to conflict calling with career, and they're certainly can be overlap, but I feel like it should be more like VIN diagram than a than a perfect circle. And I feel like sometimes the church doesn't do the best job of like differentiating that do you guys. That's fair and accurate. That's great. That's really good. But Liz, what do you think is the worst advice the church? There's a lot. I mean, I think that. I don't think that the church does a great job of. Was specifically with young people. I think were it's very fear based mentality about curiosity and encouraging curiosity in encouraging really honest question asking and about anything in. I think that what that does to kids to young people is in. I remember feeling this way that it was a the subtext of that was I'm saying that this is true. But I feel so afraid about you asking a question that might lead you to a different conclusion that I'm going to dissuade you asking a question in therefore, the subtext is I'm actually not totally sure that this is true because I feel the need to protect it and in. So I think that kinda like fear basement Taliban as opposed to. I remember being coming into adulthood in kind of meeting spiritual leaders who had just such a sense of competence in. Who got was in? What in just like who they were made to be the confidence led to the sense of freedom that it's like truth is gonna rain. So like in God made you to be creative into ask questions into kind of have this mind that works in a really interesting way. And I don't know I think our youth could really benefit I think we we create a false dichotomy where it's like you have to believe all of this appointed sinker or you're on the outside or in. I think creating kind of third path for engagement would be would be amazing to see. Libya, Rodion this. This question is prime for for less. Lydia wrote in my roommate's cat tends to on everything in my apartment from sues to close how do I cleverly get rid of the cat with? Phone. Accidentally. I didn't know how much damage I do know myself. Libya is living my worst life. That's all I can say to give her advice because the amount of anxiety in like if that was my life. I would wake up with just existential dread every day. I can't even tell her to move forward because that's how bad. Sounds debate. Bolivia out just move out move on your life. Yeah. There's no there's no fixing this situation. There's no we say that nothing is beyond redemption. But Livia you found the situations. They're just not about that cat. That cat is a demon. Ashley wrote in ask the cast is cereal a soup this serial a soup. I mean, it's I haven't thought of it in those terms. But it now that I am it's clearly cold soup. It's clearly varietal grade. I think when you get great involved you've moved onto the soup. Mood, Wason soup chicken noodle soup as rice and noodles. There's a lot of grain in that soup. Soup is mostly grain Tyler. Only. Not a SU is not a soup because there are two entities that are standalone entities like you can eat cereal without milk that makes it not a suit. But you can eat noodles without suit without breath. Hold on. What's tyler? Did you give the example of meatballs like oftener eating meat ball? Meatball soup meatballs. And it's like a thick red bra top noodles. Plenty to play spaghetti. Ragu. Meatballs in it. This is what we call that. Right. Where you went. The grades. The American staple Meatball soup. Campbell's. Out of their cans and Meatball soup. Rain to be seen. Destroy your case. I'm sorry. Did you say was a supernova just not as you if you blended? It would become sue. That's a smoothie that's a smoothie, Liz. So you're right. You're correct corrected. I am someone who learns girls who can change my mind. You're right. That would be a serious movie or or cereal. What's the name of a there's like a specific name if like this where we say suit because soups need to have a broth that is not milk dock. Be like some sort of cooked Bri oiling is usually involved in a soup dispatch aside, I feel like they're using these V some sort of like. Put something in a in broth and say, it's a soup now. Right. Even cold soups have to be cooked at some point some of the ingredients need to be prepared. Right. So just I okay. I think we're saying is not a soup. Well, I disagree. And I think Tyler's opinion is disqualified because the example, he gave to back up his meat balls and Nashville anytime, I'll make you the best beat boss if going gonna change your life. You're going to go back to Virginia you're gonna go straight into by yourself frozen meatballs in less than you're gonna eat the rest of under the weather. My had a sore throat. I've seen a warm bowl Meatball soup that really get my. All right. The the Twitter handle pragmatic Christian wrote in. Yeah. My gosh. I'm so excited for that mistake or seeming failure turned out to be a blessing in disguise taught you the most or lead to better opportunities. I head. So I have one I created this recipe. One time very. Hitched it to Campbell, and they laughed at me humiliating. And I thought at least no one else will come up with a dumb idea for people soup today. Someone else did and that taught me a lot. So people me a lot. Now, it's inspiring Julie wrote an ass I want to travel I want to travel, but I likely will have to go solo what are some phone please female traveler to visit. And what are some tips to stay safe? This question because I am is what's her name. Julie I am so passionate about solo travel. Julie in the world is great for the most part. Yes. I just I love traveling in general, I love traveling with people that I love I have learned more about myself though, traveling solo because you're I find myself to be more awake to the world when I'm by myself because I don't have these kind of comfort with organs like right next to me experience with someone, you know, like like, hey, look at that thing. And you have a person who also it's really I mean, I know I wouldn't rather they're both so important to me if you took either away would be devastating, but they do play really different roles in so many people don't travel by themselves like you're so much more open to kind of interesting experiences in fall, at least I pry myself. It's Australia upcoming sation with somebody who is a stranger that. I never would have if I was. With my best friend, or my, you know, because it would be like, oh, I'm there to spend time with them as well. So they're both incredibly valuable, but I meet a lot more people who travel with people that they love who have never solo travel. And so I just think it's important, and I love it so much Julie just call me. We'll talk about all the things failure to go in as far as being safe. It's just like the aware in ham. General common sense that it's the I found the world to be a much less scary place than most Americans think it is. You're getting ready to go back to you Gonda soon. Right. Liz. Yeah. Even like four days five days. So when you travel solo though, like ninety nine percent of my travel is solo. But I'm usually going to a place where a meeting people that. I know you know, what I mean like going to Morocco. But I'm going there for a thing where there's other people at the thing. And I'm not going to Morocco by myself. You know, what I mean like are you when you travel you're traveling for vacation by yourself? Or are you talking like you're going to Uganda? You gotta do some things in you're going back. You know by yourself. Usually like work related, but I have had a lot of work related travel where I've literally showed up in a country not known someone yet. So insight not I'm going to be with these people that I know it's like I'm going to discover what's there. Life is their profitability in. So. Landed in Rwanda for someone went to Rwanda hoping that the person who via Email invited me to come was going gonna be ending somebody to get me in. I mean, like, I didn't know anybody when I landed in. Yeah. Yeah. I'm same thing. But you are going to meet with people you're not just like going to Rwanda by yourself. And then you come home by yourself, and like you won't enter you're going to meet a group or people or whatever do a work. Right. Not. Yes. But a lot of times it's like, of course, people are apart. Like, I've never been country where I just didn't have conversation with anybody. But like, I don't necessarily know who they are yet. It's just going to explorer or like all tack on a couple of extra days of going somewhere for work to just be completely unplanned. What has got have for me? I might very big. I have this thing called miracle hunting in. So I'll just like wake up and be like, okay. Here's the thing. Like, they're something gold, and I it's usually assuming it's going to be a conversation or a person, but I have no I. Media like who they are what it is. But I have found that it like just I love miracle hunting when I'm traveling by myself because it's like the soundtrack just playing in the back of my mind in. It's like once you once you start looking for that, and you expect that it's going to happen. It's just it's a very magical on his cool. I'm it's very miracle hunting vigilante vandalism miracle hunting. I am so weird making me feel bad for like my solo travelers because you're going miracle hunt him like what's Chiro? I've never had one of the. This country what an exotic place it has Meatball soup will in here. Here. Miracle hunting. He asks what's the difference? What's the difference between moist in damp? Why moist damp moist and damp? I think damp is wetter. Don't you? Yeah. I think so I think I think it damp is more like like if I have like a like a jacket in their deeds of water on the outside like that stamp. If I'm wearing a hoodie, and it was raining and absorbed in the fabric. That's more kind of a moist situation. Let's tomato tomato. I think here's the thing. If you if you're eating if you're eating a nice big bowl, Meatball soup view don't mind if the meatballs are damp and sauce, but you don't want them moistens. So here's what between white and biz. I believe it is the same thing physically, but it is a positive or negative association with it cake. It's moist basements are damp. Are you in is it is it like a benefit to the object that it has a certain water content or is it negative? And if it's Hobbs it than it's moist of it's negative. It's damp, musty nece. You gotta clean this. I think damp is more of a it's more of a general description to like a basement can be can be damp. Right. But at basement can't be moist. Right. Unless you were to eat the basement. Maybe a surface of an object moist is within within. Yeah. Art heating. Cows can be. Negative. Tell me something where you would say in stamp, and you're like Dane, yes. I was only for that. Yeah. It's true. Because I would be like man this. You know, this grilled chicken is very moist. I wouldn't be like this girl. Chickens. Very. Did you? Did you leave it in the rain? Like chicken damp? Yeah. No. I agree. Close close on. This one Taylor is asking for some travel advice as well. So I'm taking a road trip in a month. How can I make my drive more interesting than writing the driving part the long the long parts? Yeah. I mean, you wanna see how long you can go with your eyes closed. Pick-up every seconds. Oh my gosh. Yes. Pick up hitchhikers. Oh, it's like basically, I mean, it's so funny to me that it's like we are moving. It's like, oh my gosh. We did hitchhiking sixties. I was so dangerous. Now, we literally just do the same thing. But we pay for it. Yeah. I think I do. Yeah. You know, inviting random people in your car and talking to them it's very important, Mike, I talked to we talked about this on the funding. I talked to every driver, and they always have great stories. I heard a great story from Hoover. Dr the other day. He was telling me that his life, and he has lived a fascinating life and he like worked for like a nightclub in Miami at one point. And he started his the cook. And he worked his way up to the nightclub owner you the nightclub business because he's got shot eight times. I'm like what wins news e? Easy easy. Like Rambo used this. While. Yeah, you never know you when you're gonna sit in the car with Scarface and have him regale you with cool stories from running nightclubs in Miami and Ninety-Eight now he's driving around at Miami. Vice here drive around Uber. And no one knows great stories because Noah's taking the time to talk to talk to random strangers. That's you know, I don't think that qualifies as miracle hunting. But I like the conversation does that towed starts Jesse. It's always starts with that. It really does ninety percent of the miracles come from conversations with people that you're dislike awake. You believe? They have the miracle or you so for that example, it was like this really fascinating crazy story miracle miracle hunting. You're you're an extrovert, right. No. I'm actually an introvert. So Trump believes me when you travel by yourself. Are you engage people in conversation or you're just open to engaging them if they initiate like the you initiate, yeah. Yeah. I have to push myself to like no one believes that I'm an introvert. But it takes like I have what I refer to his pre social anxiety. It's like once I am in social situation. It's usually fine on tired by the end of it. But like I have major invited leading up to social I have to like home I self up to go into social situations. But I also find that one on one conversations like I actually hate parties I really disliked parties, but like talking one on one with a stranger in like a gas station coffee. Shop is is much more energizing to me follow question. How do you pump yourself up the go-to social situation? What's your what's on? What's the plan? You really wanna know? Why am I you guys have like truth serum for me? Why am I tell you all my things? Here's what I do. I listened to the last of the Mohicans, Sandra. Not see that one. Closing song for the podcast gonna say. Very serious. If you've never done this in your life. Any challenge ahead of you? If there's anything that feels daunting put on the last the Mohegan soundtrack, it's beautiful ring in I actually never even seen the movie, I only signed with the movie is I just listened to the soundtrack in it. So it makes your life feel like a movie in it so epic in you'll feel like you can do anything I listened to like through both of my labours. Hardy all things. It's a great movie. Liz, maybe you should be looking for movie night. Yeah. I mean. Sounds like that it's it's just kind of become my life. I don't know. Something to me now. Yeah, it's the same thing. Listen, I mean, I can't tell you. How many times has come home? I'm wearing blue face paint. And I'm screaming to the Braveheart soundtrack. And she's like, what are you doing? I'm like I have a social than. I like it. Lists Isla moody scores very underrated. Like if you look on my Scott by tunes is like day sickly, all John Williams. It's like it's just we under s I just think movie scores are there might I'd say ninety percent of music that I listened to movie scores. Interesting. So you would say so you say one thing they could do to help speed her maker drive more interesting play that that lasts. He can soundtrack instead of just Amish. He's on not on a road trip anymore. She's on an epic quest to. Yes percent. Yep. It will transform her her whole home Camille into quest line chair. Life would feel more epic. If we had a movie soundtrack playing I'm picturing this now because like that clip we played the hot list of the coach praying whoever made the clip put epic music in the background and made the prayer. Even more epic in also true if she's driving point she's Dr rings. Lasmo Kiekens the Truman show is a really good one. Surprisingly the Truman show. Soundtrack is amazing. Just it's just. But no, Liz, you're giving me an idea, especially camera. What you're talking about the locker room prayer that they put the music to is why don't sermons have soundtracks. On on on charismatic churches, dude that last quarter of the sermon that keyboard player come out. They wait. They wait until they're like kinda have the band come back up. Please just something off behind me guys. Just just kind of amp for a minute. You know, just getting ready for the altar call Liz idea where right from the very beginning. Like, I see the lights on the stage go and just a single spotlight on the pulpit. And the passer comes out every going crazy. Then you know, there's all these emotional highs and lows of the sermon then he gets then that's when you do the altar call, you know, like trying to get the band of prep to warm up the every head ballet closed moment. Right. You know, you really cutting yourself she'll go all the way in. Yeah. I'm saying get these these epic soundtracks goals at all sermon, you know, like really play emotions here. Creamer player out bring a string section out. Bring Hans Zimmer out. Today is clipping tiny Zimmer in their pocket. Listen, if I could get the acoustic guitar player the keyboard player in Hans Zimmer to just hop. We're going to close out the nesper every every. I room back in the orchestra pit to. Prepare team per team or to the alter their scan people up here everyone. Yeah. Thanks for everybody who sent in questions for the cast this week. There's a lot more, and we will do this again. It's fun droppings up one of the things squarespace for making the episode possible. Remember, go to squarespace dot com slash relevant for free trial. And when you're ready to launch your website, use the offer code relevant to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website, or domain. Also, thanks to Raji P Hinson for joining us. You heard it Tyler das- week full recommendation. Go check out her brand new movie comes out today. It's called the best of enemies true stories really powerful to story. It's coming out today. Go check it out. Hey, have you gotten your official relevant podcast, muggy, get head over to relevant magazine dot com slash store to pick up your favorite plus some other weird stuff and merchandise. We we are adding new products to the relevant store. Go check it out. There's a lot of fan gear and other stuff, and plus every issue of relevant magazine is there so go check it out at relevant magazine dot com slash store. Also, hey, if you like the podcast head over to I tunes or apple podcasts in leave a review in in rate. It we are like what like two votes away from a full five star rating. So go check that out do the right thing over gives us five star Visser. And while you're there check out. Our other two new podcasts. Relevant daily has launched in the last few weeks subscribed to relevant daily. It's ten minutes long give or take it's every day every weekday in. It's the stories you need to know at the intersection of faith, and culture. These guys bring bring the goods every weekday on relevant daily. Go check it out and also unedited unedited with Karen string right now. The new episode has Abner from Johnny swim on it. It's an awesome conversation. He he talks. About his faith. He talks about pursuing Amanda. And over the years. He he talks about the importance of community. He talks about what chip in Joe or like in real life. It's it's it's totally unedited and by halfway through the show or halfway through conversation. He goes, you're going to edit this, right? Laughed and said, no. Same dealing about nineteen times. Well, on that note, actually, thanks a lot for joining us. Liz that was a lot of fun. We got to know you at a level. I did not expect it. Keep your eye out for her new podcast. It's in the works. And also her book that comes out this fall. And check out their amazing stuff at Saco designs. You won't be disappointed. No, check ins were harmed in the making of any other products. Check in pre at this point in our evolution. I'm so proud to say. Second. We'll wrap things up. I'm Cameron Strang string. I'm jessica. I'm gonna be working Mohan. We will see you guys on Tuesday a great weekend. Thank you for listening to the relevant podcast. 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62: Q&A: Beginners Pluck with Liz Bohannon

Craig Groeschel Leadership Podcast

28:38 min | 1 year ago

62: Q&A: Beginners Pluck with Liz Bohannon

"Hey so glad to have you here. On the Craig Rochelle Leadership Podcast I had the opportunity to partner with the global leadership network to interview Liz Bohannon. She spoke this year at the two thousand nineteen global leadership summit and quite honestly there were a lot of amazing talks but this one was one not only one of my favorites but it was really one of the conference favorites birds and she's got a new book out called Beginners Pluck and so I'm excited to share with you. in partnership with Global Leadership Network and interview I did recently with Liz Bohannan had this is Craig Rochelle leadership podcast Liz. I am praise excited to have you on with us today. Thank you so much for take time to do this interview. Yeah absolutely I'm excited as well a little bit of your background for some people. That may not know who you are. Can you tell us a little bit about your story story especially how'd you go from a journalism student in Missouri to a CEO of a large ethical fashion brand and speaker at the Global Leadership Summit all tell you that the road wasn't exactly straight and narrow necessarily but I started out in journalism and became increasingly interested in issues issues that we're facing women and girls that were living in extreme poverty in conflict and post conflict zones and so I kind of have this dream that the New York Times would hire me and send me around the world to write about these really important issues and graduated from college and it turns out that The New York Times wasn't super interested in hiring a twenty two year old to be an international correspondent who had never really left the United States of America before and so I took a corporate job and I had this moment about three months and where I realize I say I'm really passionate about this issue of women and girls in global extreme poverty. I don't actually have a single friend. WHO's a girl that grew up in that context. There is kind of this gap between what I said I cared about in my actual life and so I quit that corporate job and I bought a one way plane ticket to Uganda Gonda and I showed up really just with the intention of building relationships and making friends I had journalism degree but I I really showed up just to learn as much as I could so throughout that process I ended up meeting an incredible group of young women academically gifted top five percent of female students in the country and they were getting ready to graduate from high school and enter into a nine month gap between High School and university and most of them were going back home for their villages is to their villages looking for jobs couldn't find jobs and also we're losing all the social support that they had gained over the last two years with other really like minded did women into the organization was really Kinda struggling to think about how to bridge this gap for these young women that just happened to be my community at the time and so I was kind of naturally folded into those conversations stations and one thing led to another and I started a charity and then realized that we needed to be investing in the marketplace business solutions to solve some of the world's most it's challenging problems and so started a chicken farm and not failed and then I launched a tiny little Sandal Company and made a promise to three young women that if they made made sandals for the next nine months that they would go to college and then came back home to the US and started selling strappy sandals out of the back of my car and that's kind of how it all started Adolfo. Remember your idea in college. was you wanted to make a flip flop. It didn't do something you and a flip flop and do not flat didn't flop naturally Craig. I was really. La pontificating on the really high level philosophical problems at the time and my whole life. I always thought if we didn't flop that would be amazing and Dan sorry you put you put some straps on it and created this product that you you were selling out of the back seat of your car. Yes yes sir yeah man indeed they were flipflops that didn't flop so mission mission accomplished so one of the things. I love about your story is that you had kind of lofty ideas of how you wanted to make like a difference in the world and yet they were more in your heart not interactions and you kind of clothes at the gap in fact. I think that's really a big party or story. Warrior is taking what's in your heart moving into action. What what is it that drove you to actually go and take a risk and move across the world to do something different yeah. It was exactly that Craig it was that moment in the story when I realized I had all these like big ideas and go be you know an international correspondent for a really well no news as organization come up with a corporate philanthropy scheme that involves millions of dollars that we can pour into initiatives that will help benefit women and girls but the thing was. I wasn't doing anything about it because all of those either felt like external factors right like I have to wait until the New York Times notices me to hire me to send me somewhere and they weren't or it was just too big like it was like okay. I'm twenty two like okay. I might be able to start working on that one. I'm ten years into in my career when I have a different job title when more resources so it was like a lot of lot of waiting maybe tomorrow and it just the idea of like these huge global issues can be so overwhelming in in my thought was like well. It's a huge global issue so it needs a huge global solution and it wasn't until I really made that kind of core thing actually a small as it could possibly go and say like okay. Maybe instead of thinking about a million women. I think about one one what would it be like to just be relationship with and learn from and be friends with one woman and because that was so relatively small right it's like I don't have any excuses for why I can't go. Make a single friend like I don't need a certain degree. I don't need billions of dollars. I don't need my boss to say yes so it was really making it as small as they could possibly go when I was like okay. I don't have an excuse anymore. Now I had to sit in this moment of like if you still don't do anything and then you're kind of a fraud. Just stop saying you care about this issue. Stop saying you're passionate about it and go about kind of building this life. You know the does three strong language and I Kinda WanNa highlighted it. which is if you say you care and you don't do your fraud and I think that's a little bit about what makes you so authentic is the the willingness to call yourself yourself that and so? I almost want display out that for some leaders listening right now and say maybe less to stop talking and Gordon do something and and let Liz's story and I want to hear more about it because it really is so inspirational let her story inspire you to let your actions lineup with the things as you say value in l. A. WanNa pull more out as list. You have a book bits releasing on October. The first name of the book that book is beginners plaque doc build your life of purpose passion in impact now you took the phrase beginner's luck in you tried to shift the mindset. Give us an insight place yet so I realized several years into my career that every time I was on the cusp of something interesting if something good something that really required fired a lot of risk. I had this nagging insecurity that like hey if you take this risk and then you bomb you fail everybody. He is going to see you for this like imposter that you really are and they're gonna see that anything good that you've done up until this point in your career like it was all just beginner's luck so this was. Kinda this like insecurity that just kept driving me and I would notice it really flaring up when I was on the edge of taking a really interesting risk or leap kind of out of my comfort comfort zone into something new and so I started just like really thinking about the phrase like why why is this just like so nagging on me why is creating so much fear sure so I was like was there a time in your career where you didn't feel that specific insecurity and so I just kinda like delved back into the archives and I had to go quite frankly really far back all the way to the beginning of my career and to this time when I didn't have that that insecurity and so then I spent a long time time thinking about what were the mentalities in the mind-sets that I had during those earliest days before that specific insecurity started to arise and what I realized was was my my most free. Most innovative most creative time in my career is when I was a beginner and it was when I was in the stage where I came to to the table not with the sense of like okay. I'm super confident and I've got it all figured out which I think is a lot of the messaging that we give people especially early on right like just show up and be confident confident and fake it till you make it and I think that that advice actually has some unintended side effects like a lot of the advice that we're giving people in general right now so the whole book is actually quite counter intuitive so I went through started like realizing all these messages that we're getting in our culture church that I think are creating an unintended consequence on people who are trying to build lives of purpose passionate impact and so I really explored that in the book and offer offer some alternate probably counter intuitive wisdom well. That's exactly what you do in that. Is the the exact word that I used to describe your talk to everybody that kind kind of bragging on it. What is it is countered of in there. We have so many sayings that are popular and culture that I think you're right are bringing unintended consequences. You talk about a different idea. You you really believe we should be curious over critical Janie unpalatable for us yeah I think when things get difficult when you start to feel those feelings of I'm Outta my league not feeling like I'm keeping up whatever it is. Most people turned to criticism and there's two forms of criticism. There's external criticism schism so this is when you're like they don't get my idea. They're not you know they're not taking up. They're not taking me seriously. The circumstances aren't right. It's the market's down whatever it is and and then there's internal criticism whereas where you start to say like I'm not good enough. I'm stupid. I don't deserve to be here so you can choose either of those but you also have the opportunity. I really use my desire we all. I think most of us have a gut reaction to criticize when we're in a place of fear or feeling incompetent. I think that's a super natural reaction or at least natural temptation right. I think we don't need to be down on ourselves for feeling the instinct to criticize but we do have the choice of what we actually do with that and how we react out of that and so one of the things in my in my life I try to in the same way that those feelings of like nervousness innings trying to switch those feelings of excitement. I really try to do the same thing with curiosity and criticism the moment I have the instinct to criticize that becomes like like the signal to me this like a little bit of till like Oh get curious lean into that asked the question. There's actually probably something really interesting in there and frankly it's probably something that wouldn't come to you naturally so unless you come to the table willing to really ask questions and here's the thing about asking questions. They can't be leading questions right. I'm the queen this like asking the question but really trying to Lissette the answer I want us so real and true curiosity and my book I use the example of of being a journalist and I you know I call it being on assignment in your own life and I think really good unbiased journalists. They come to a story assuming that they don't know where it's going to take them right. That's what makes a great journalist. They ask a question and then when they find something. That's a little bit different than they anticipated. They have a willingness to follow the lead into kind of say like. Oh that path that I was following. I think I was wrong. Here's where the story is really taking me and actually go there and I think if if we can apply that principle to our lives to our personal lives I mean this applies to win your at the gas station and you run into a jerk in instead of having a critical attitude like if your first taught like man. I wonder what happened in his house this morning. That's like making him react in that way in like leaning into that and I think we can use it in our businesses when our customers aren't reacting to something like we thought they were instead of jumping to criticism getting really really curious and continuing to lead in that that's where the really good the good stories anything information why it's so helpful to highlight that just for our leaders listening right now and kind of taken what you said the words. I I try to tell myself the point at which on most was critical is usually an indicator the place where I have the most to learn and so he hates Gani time you're studying Liz's work or you're you're looking at a new the model in your industry and you find yourself pushing back and saying no not in my world now. This isn't true what I've found his. I often don't have the context or the experience yet to understand and that's is really an indicator that I I should stop criticizing and really come with an open mind set. Your work is really special what you've done is you're creating a new market. Get your employing people. That otherwise wouldn't be employed. Can you tell me maybe a story. You've got several in your book but one of your favorites of how curiosity helps spark your Social Entrepreneurial Venture insurer you know if we go all the way back to the very beginning I would say the model itself was born out of curiosity so I showed up in Uganda and was like okay you know I grew up in America and I had heard stories about women in Africa and so when I showed up and face this problem problem of under-resourced young women not having enough money to go to university. I immediately jumped to the conclusion as I briefed a little bit earlier about like. Oh okay. I've been here done that like seen this a million times. We have to start his charity will like start a sponsorship program. A will match women in America with women in Uganda Dash and I think God I was still in this ause like this problem had emerged and I was like trying to solve it but like I said I had this journalism and also debris and I think I was like Kinda playing persona like being a journalist at the time and I'm so grateful because before I launched that idea I was like I'm just GONNA spend weeks setting up coffee meetings setting up informational interviews going on walks just digging in and asking the question in a way that really did good feel open-handed like hey. Here's the problem as I see it. Here's a potential ideas for solutions. Help me. What are the holes. What am I not seeing when I tell you that you know in your perspective is completely different than mine. The headmistress of the girls school the person who can work on longer term finances for the organization the women and at the school themselves like really getting so design thinking is kind of a school of thought of how we solve problems and I love. There's a phrase in design thinking that is k. Instead instead of going for the bird's eye view get the worms. I view and I love this. I get as close as possible to the problem that you're trying to solve and then really lean in and and listen and when I did that I started hearing these like clues. no-one outright said you should start a business but what they were saying was like okay you gotta keep the girls together. They can't go back home to their villages. there's a bigger problem in our economy which is that people are graduating from school and then they can't get work right we super high youth unemployment rate had talks about you know larger things that are happening in the economy stagnating. All of these things were like these it feels like that's the real issue in that certainly not going to be solved by meet coming in and matching up you know a group of women with a group of women in America who can send them checks and so it was really this kind of thought process of like ooh. That feels like a clue right. Thank you so much now. I'm GONNA follow this and go in a completely different direction and that kind of rabbit trail piecing together the clues to create a solution that was very different than the one I originally came to the table bust up asking questions being curious making mistakes that led to a really amazing story at global of Psalm that Liz I brought three of my kids Sam who just graduated Stephen. Who Sixteen enjoy his fourteen and they loved loved your talk but you said something. That was really different than what everyone else is telling them. The Culture says today follow your passion. Follow your passion. Follow your passion but you'd have different advise. I do I home. Ai And I am there I am part of the generation that is just like every time I open instagram. Every go to a conference. Someone is telling us to find your passion like go out there and and find it and I think that that phrase is actually really toxic because this notion that your passion exists. It's out there. It's like fully formed in. It's waiting for you right. It's waiting for you to make like the right decision to open the right door to have you know the right conversation with the right person to get you the job and that's where you're. GonNa Find Your Passion. I think that that's really toxic thing because it it puts us in that place of passivity and it also puts us in a place where there is so much pressure like I have to open the the right door to find this mystical magical passion that everybody's talking about and then by the way the next message is once you find it. Everything else in your life is going to fall into place. Look like I'm sorry if you replace that with anything else like I think in my parents generation it was money and it was security right once you achieve that data than the rest of your life is GonNa fall into place. I really believe that passion has become my generation's new idol right. It's this beautiful thing and it's how Oh God designed us to exist in communion with him co creating the Kingdom of God here on Earth but the moment that thing becomes like the end all be all okay well now. We have an idol right. We've just taken a good thing we've given it too much importance in our life and so I really believe that the mentality around building your passion but it's like this is it. This is your story. It is on you to go out there to ask the questions to be curious to build. Take an frankly to be willing to be surprised by that like you never never in a million years. Cragg could've told me that ten years in I would be running a for profit international fashion company like I hated fashion. Not what interested you know a lot of these like influencers. Have these like stories that it's like. Oh when I was a little girl I was already doing this on the playground and it's very nice ice and in like I think if that's really your story that's awesome if you've always known what you're passionate about but what that does to the rest of us who don't have that story as it makes us feel like we're broken hill and there were missing something and it doesn't help us feel empowered to actually go out and just built it so we're going through live looking for this mysterious elusive something and everything's a letdown and people may not take the first step what I found. I agree with you completely. When you dive into something you actually jammed become passionate in about things. You never even thought you'd be passionate about and so I think it's a really really helpful message. You also would say something very different than what I'm going to see if I opened up my instagram pitch today when everybody says think big dream big conquer the world a difference all over the world. You'd say there's actually probably even a more helpful message as well. Tell me about it I would you know here's the thing we hear about dreaming big all the time and I am genuinely a big fan of dreaming big. If if dream if you're on a place in your life where you're dreaming big and you're actually taking action like that's amazing. Keep going keep doing it who I'm talking to. Though are the people that feel pretty paralyzed and overwhelmed by that message of light dream big and we start to ask ourselves we have these beautiful dreams we have these visions regions and then the first thing that we do instead of the first question being like awesome. What's my action step. What am I doing tomorrow to help this. Come to life. The first question it starts to become like is this big enough like am. I doing is big enough should I should I wait. I should probably wait and I should make it a little bit bigger and I should ask for more people's opinions and I should make it sound more impressive and then maybe someday I'll just like emerge onto the scene with this huge dream and I think that that's that makes me really really really sad when and I see people doing that because I know that the likelihood that that dream ever actually turns into something is actually really really small and so I I really just want to give people bowl the freedom to say like hey. It's big enough now jus- go do it and frankly I think it's so much healthier to have a like relatively relatively small dream and actually do something and then you get put in this place where then okay now you're next small dream might be a little bit bigger but that's GonNa lead you to the next thing into the next thing that's how we bill lives of purpose and passion and impact it doesn't happen sitting in a room pontificating in dreaming and researching and coming up with this big super impressive plan that then we need to be successful right out of gate right because if you spend all this time on the big dream what that actually does is it can keep you do from being curious and from iterating and evolving because you become really attached to the big dream. It's like oh well. This has to work. This has to be the thing if you dream dream small. You're actually a lot more willing to get into it and go okay. Did this small dream. Wow that wasn't exactly what I expect. It okay so next time. I'm going to try this and I'm going to tweak this a little little better like wow that actually is what caught my attention and you get to follow that lead and I really believe that that's a more healthy way to to think about it was a love is a hope that there's someone someone listening right. Now that kind of like you said earlier you know they're thinking instead of making some big difference starting big company creating a big brand making a big big difference a big ministry or whatever and had been thinking for a long time and this just gives them the courage to start right now right where they are. Do something take a really small step up. Take a risk set up an appointment start. Write down step number one. I love the idea that sometimes we don't. We have ceased number seven so we don't take step number one your you'll never hit step number. Seven in less you take step number one and even of step number. One is really really small as to take it today. Take that step. I I WANNA hit on one other idea that you you drive home unless you say that we should get hooked on making keeping promises. Tell us why it's so important to you so we live in a generation and a world and society that I think is filled with a lot of BS and by be ask I mean busy and should there's a lot of busy insureds getting thrown around. We're all like so busy and we're so important and we all also live in this life for were constantly thinking like I should do this. I should do this. I should be here. I should be this type of person and in the book I explore this concept of being a person that makes and keeps keeps promises and specifically your VIP's your very important promises. I really think that in order to build a life of purpose and passion and impact you so you have to do the hard work of knowing what the absolute priorities in your life as in there's an they're just frankly can't very many of them. and I call those you're very important promises and getting really crystal clear on like this is my promise and this is what that means right so one of my very important promise areas the as is parenting and mother had a three year old and I have a one year old and being a president parent who is stewarding the lives of children is really important but a a good promises promises not like so. I'm going to be a good mom because what that does is that opens me up that opens me up to everybody else's definition of what is a good mom right and then. I start having this thing. I should be doing this. I should be you know this are how should look like this and someone else's putting their kids in this class so I should think about that and instead do the work to say what is being a really good. Mom Look like for you and get like crazy granular with it and say these are the things that I believe in and I'm GonNa make a promise to myself myself and to my family that I do these things and that means that when something comes up when Jili Joey is doing this thing with her kids and that strikes this insecurity in me of I should be doing that with mine. I have this thing that I can go back to and go. Did you write that down. was that a promise that you made to your family and when I look at my list and I say like no like that thing that that Jill is doing down the street like never even occurred to you as being a part of being a good mom so let it go like kick the should she should out of it if you will. We don't take our promises seriously enough. We throw it around and if we can just do the really the really difficult work. You're saying what matters to me. What are the things that are going to help me build my life of purpose passionate impact and then take those Razi seriously and let those be Kinda the guide for how we spend our time in our energy that were were much more likely in in the long run to build something that matters so liz. Can you bring it home for us. I actually I'm thinking about doing something. Hang out and putting it off and I I know that there are some other people out there that have an idea could be for business. It could be to be innovative in their church. It could be for a ministry you talk to us about how to channel our inner beginner to start the cycle of innovation and to do something special. I think the first step is to tell oh yourself and to really try to believe it that there is no shame in your beginners game. I think that shame is the thing that keeps us from from learning and and I think when we when we find ourselves in this place where like I don't. I don't want to embarrass myself. I don't want people to look at me and fail. We'll also here's a tidbit. No one's thinking about you as much as you think they're thinking about you. I'M GONNA propose that it might not be insecurity. It might actually be an inflated sense of Ego because what's happening is you're actually thinking that people are sitting around waiting for your next move going to evaluate you like. I'm sorry actually no like no one is thinking about you. Got My and I think that sounds really harsh but I think at least for me when I'm like. I'm just feeling insecure. I don't don't really have a path out of that. When I'm like girl you got an ego problem. I feel very empowered and inclined to deal with that and to say like okay you need to step back and think but yourself like in your right place feel much more motivated and so. I think that that's what I would encourage. The first step is like no one's thinking about you as much as you. I think they are so you have the freedom like go out. Take risks make a couple wrong. Calls turn in the other direction and build something awesome so at the same time. I feel like you hurt my feelings telling me no one's thinking about me as much as I think and I feel inspired to go and do something so thank you for that might be a pretty good summary of the book itself. I felt pretty offended but then somehow encourage so it's offended in a good way and inspired a great way and so let's thanks so much for on being on the Craig Rachelle leadership podcast. I Love Your Heart Allegra Passion. I love your message. I'm so excited about beginners. Pluck for everybody. WHO's listening. You'LL WANNA grabbed that book and a special. Thank you for your contribution. At the Global Leadership Summit this past year you were a real highlight and so I- celebrate you and congratulate she on a new book and I pray that it impacts a lot allies will thanks Craig and everybody listening so thanks again for being a part of our leadership community as always if you're new with US citing courage you just to hit the subscribe button and that way you'll get new content we drop new teaching on the first Thursday of every month. Also thank you for writing this content or riding a review if it has value to your life and you can do that for me that would mean a lot. Let's take Linda's advice. Go Out and do something small today. Don't don't worry about it. Don't feel pressure to get it all right because we say it every time people rather follow leaders always real than one is always right. Thank you for joining us at the Craig Rachelle leadership podcast. If you WANNA go even deeper into this episode and get the leadership died or show notes you can go to life dot church slash leadership podcast you you can also sign up to have that information delivered straight to your inbox every month in the meantime you can subscribe to this podcast rate and review it on. ITUNES and share with your friends on social media once again. Thank you for joining us at the Craig Rachelle leadership fight.

Liz America Uganda Craig The New York Times Global Leadership Summit Craig Rachelle Global Leadership Network United States Craig Rochelle fraud Missouri Dan Liz Bohannon little Sandal Company Liz Bohannan High School and university partner CEO l. A. WanNa
Episode 55: What if video game items existed in real life? (feat. Zach Bohannon)

Absurd Hypotheticals

50:32 min | 1 year ago

Episode 55: What if video game items existed in real life? (feat. Zach Bohannon)

"In what if what if what if we had nine lives fits fly it's absurd if money through on trees if we did it we live in fact it's absurd concern ibook hello everybody and welcome to absurd hypotheticals shower we over thanked. I'm questions so you don't have to. I am not your host markets liner because he he is not here today but I am Chris. He and I'm taking over hosting duties. I'm joined here today by Ben Storms and Special Guest Zach Bohannon has go back. Welcome to the show. Hey how you guys doing doing already good awesome you doing. I'm doing good me. I'm you know summertimes always great. We get a lot of humidity down here in Nashville which is awesome I have to you have to start by talking about the weather right. That's just oh yeah so you know there's nothing else. There's nothing nothing else for us to talk about literally nothing else in the world so no. I'm I'm. I'm doing great. I really appreciate you guys have me on. I think this is going to be a lot of fun. Hopefully hopefully yeah healthily so before we get started while I just tell our listeners who you are and what you do you have again touch. Yes so <hes> I guess it you know start by how we got in touch Kinda good part. I I write novels so I'm primarily post apocalyptic. Science fiction is is Kinda. Why right I I do lots of my own most justified co author with a guy named Jay Thorne and <hes> you know we're huge fans of post a POC and so as as writing that stuff and I've published right around twenty five books or so <hes> I've read a lot of it and <hes> one day I was cruising through Amazon and I came across this crazy looking cover with a robot riding a horse through a wasteland and I was like that looks awesome and cover it was it was really eye catching and <hes> I I read? I picked the book up and read it and loved it and anytime I read a book I really enjoy especially if it's a fellow independent author I always reach out to them and and let them know because I would appreciate that it's always good to get those emails and <hes> it's a good way to connect with fellow authors and stuff so <hes> if your listeners have not figured out by now <hes> I'm talking about Christmas Book Metal Chest Chest Yes <hes> and it was it was awesome cyrus out to him and told him how much I liked it and we kind of went back and forth and <hes> you asked me to come on the podcast so here I am yeah. I really appreciate appreciate you reaching out. Is that was awesome that you read my book doc yeah absolutely it was it was a like I told you I mean it's it's a great book and <hes> you know I definitely kept me hooked through the whole story which is great and <hes> you know especially with with <hes> you know independent books you I. I mean whether they with any book but you know. Sometimes you never know what you're going to get and so it was it was good to <hes> you know read something that was very very high quality and I recommend it to any of your readers. He liked the listeners who like reading Sifi. It's good stuff yeah checked your your website to and you do a lot of like you have your own podcast about just <hes> indie publishing general right yeah so yeah so I'm also the coast of the career author podcast and so basically <hes> it's it's a podcast for anyone who is aspiring barn to be a career author <hes> so you know we talk about everything from just publishing general to <hes> we talk a lot about craft <hes> and we talk a lot about you know <hes> like productivity and time management management all all kinds and running a business we talk about pretty much everything that would go into being a full time author <hes> and <hes> yeah so we that comes out every Thursday of every week. That's who I am. That's how we met so yeah. That's how we met a Lotta Yeah. There's a lot of good stuff and I don't know who been is but I'm GonNA learn over this. Honestly I'm just a guy I don't. I don't write books. I read them. Sometimes I enjoy them. I'm just a guy he's just a random gay. They need a third person today. Grammy worked well enough right. That's perfect on addition to doing all this writing and publishing book stuff. Zach also told us that he's of He's into video games. He's a Gamer so we decided to do a video. Game related related question this week so this week's question is what if video game items existed in real life and the way we did this was basically just picked video games that we've played in the past or that we liked and specifically looking at video games have interesting items in them and we just picked items that we thought would be interesting if they exist in real life and we'd wanted to look at the impact that they have in the real world so Ben. Do you WANNA go first. Yeah sure so I went with <hes> I with the game. Series has lots of fun items but that is the the legend of Zelda series <hes> specifically I went with the hook shot. Which is I? It's a recurring been in a few of the Zelda Games that is kind of like a grappling hook. That's kind of the sort of go to wait like explain it but instead spent on the Servino twirl and throw up and hook onto something in pull yourself it launches out a gauntlet and attached and then drags you up to it. It's basically like the Batman gun thing yeah yeah kind of like that like the grappling gun in Batman. Yeah also like pull things to you sometimes so it's not just pull you things. It's it pulls it pulls kind of the main takeaway there. There's polling poll edge so it's really my first question. <hes> was with this eaten work in real life like is this a thing that you'd actually do and I was actually very fortunate. There was a youtube video. I found I want to figure out like how much would weigh and how fast it goes and all that by. If I could avoid I wanted to avoid doing the actual like like fragile stuff yeah exactly the actual work you put it that way and there was a great youtube video found by this this <hes> guy or guys called the game theorists <hes> the did a lot of that that like background like you know measuring things against other objects in the world. If you're at how big they were <hes> helped me a lot and so they figured out basically it has to be our steel just because it can go into like would pantry would so that narrows down very heavily what mouse that could be and we know that can work underwater a caption that Russ so prematurely works is steel and I figured out the hook itself has to worry about twenty one pounds but then also the chain obviously has weight and they figured out the chains about sixty five feet long. This was an offering of time <hes> who has the one they simply use which is actually the longshot not just write your workshop but close enough is it longer it is likely to have a longer reach. I think it's roughly twice as long is what it says in the game <hes> okay defensively like for some description points out this twice as long as the hook shot. I don't know why but but it's basically a sixty five foot long half inch diameter steel chain with twenty one inch weight on the end and that chain also ways another one hundred sixty nine pounds. You're looking about one hundred ninety pounds. Wow is really heavy which is really heavy which is also really impressive because Lincoln's like runs around with it and I was gonNA say like carries carries it with the fifteen other items he has on him. Clearly guy must be jacked but sort of the issue run into here is that <hes> we also know pretty much how fast it can go because that's sixty five feet. It travels in about one second and six five about twenty meters as twenty meters per second and most importantly after the first like tenth of a second it moves a constant speed. All the acceleration is right in that first tenth of a second which means that the acceleration is about two hundred meters squared which is roughly twenty times gravity and around double the like turn acceleration of fighter jet. And now that we know the mass of the chain and the acceleration we can find the force of it. Mike went fires out which is a little over seventeen thousand Newton's which is just under the bite force of adult great white shark and very importantly because of you know Newton's third law motion which always comes back to bite us in the show that same force GonNa get a fly to you when you use the hook shot as another important frame of reference for forces human bones start breaking roughly around twelve thousand Newton's so just when initially firing it. You're probably going to break most of the bone your arm but is it. Is it worth it though as well so here's the here's the other problem is that that's just actually launching it because this is going to hit something. That's going to attach catch and that's GonNa pull you with roughly the same acceleration so it's going to break your arm and then pull it off so well actually so importantly. It's probably not strong after actually pull your arm off it will dislocate it but probably not actually tear it off so you have going for the one bad thing is that in addition to this like multiple bone breaks and dislocation. You will experience for that Tenth of a second roughly twenty g's which is a lot. It probably won't kill you apparently so apparently there's been like obviously I've training with regards space fight and stuff with how many g's that humans can can live through and with training a human sustained twenty g's for about ten seconds before before Jeff so you probably won't die however in those same experience experiments they found that with about one second at twenty g's you would get like permanent spinal damage and also that was enough Jesus Jesus to like start breaking the blood vessels in your eyes and causing permanent blindness she all right so long story short the hook shot. You should probably not us because it will probably if not actually actually kill you because we're also by the way assuming that like when you fire this you don't just go flying backers a wall or something which is probably what would happen but if it doesn't kill you it probably is something you would prefer must be honest here but we're going to sort of take all that aside now. We've done the less fun thing the more fun thing where would actually did work wherever you actually did have this chain you know that could just pull US sixty five year time very quickly and not a Nollie aren't injury you right right exactly. We're GONNA. We're GONNA go with that hypothetical. I'm actually really sad. I don't think it's actually all that useful guys. It's funny. He said that because originally I was going to talk about the hook shot and after your whole scientific explanation nation I'm glad I didn't because I would have not gone through all that information and that was actually really fascinating but but that was part of the reason I am not laying on that one because I was like how useful would that really be. It just doesn't do much. It's like 'cause 'cause sixty. Five feet isn't actually all that far yeah so like and like you can't you can't really like scale a building with it so you could you could go upstairs marginally faster if it's more or less staircases with like it loops around like the basalt way around it can like go staircase site aside kind of but that seems very dangerous and not all that helpful the one place where it could be fun and possibly useful is if you live somewhere with a lot of balconies you could kind of be like really slower Awkward Spiderman which isn't great but you can still contest that sentence into your spiderman which I think is good enough so you have that honestly I think the most useful thing I thought of was so I personally I live in a three story building park behind it and it's not an elevator my building and getting my groceries is really annoying but there's a window at the end of the hallway and I could open the trunk of my car car and Hook shot my groceries backup to now you might be saying this seems like a really boring used for a hook shot and I agree with you but man I really try find. It's funny to me that you're you're thinking vertically and and it's funny because when I <hes> when I think of Zelda you know I'm I'm thirty five so I think I think about totally thinking linked to the past and like I'm wh when you watch him do it in linked to the past. You're you're honestly wondering do is feed him and leave the ground or is he just like I mean you know like so. I was trying to figure that out to seeing you can go sixty five feet and a second yeah which is good like <unk> obviously that's that's fast but you have to go to hook onto something yeah and then once you get to like reset and do it again. It's like I wouldn't WanNa do that for long. Distances could you put on like roller skates and then hook onto the ground pinpoint launch yourself forward with with the roller skates. Oh that seems very dangerous does seem really maybe see where my head goes is like you know if you're like a cocktail party or like club or something and across the room you saw some really good-looking girl Hook shot I mean how awesome would you look enough. Yeah just do like the Scorpion. Get over here exactly just like you're. You're just kind of I on this this person up and then seconds later. You're right next to him. My compress the right look at that works that does work you know and that's your groceries. There are all these like short. These moderate range quick speed uses which there aren't that many up and they would all look very cool. Yeah you're right it more than anything. It would be cool. Which I think is probably enough? I'm hoping but overall usefulness. I don't think it's actually that useful. I was very sad about that. Yeah that is that is does a bummer. I mean there are some applications just not all that many unfortunately and also once again it would absolutely wreck you to use even once kind of the big thing to come back to as well. Maybe don't Hook shop you find. That's kind of what I've learned mostly to this research nice see that's why I have Zach. What did you do well? Can I ask you an important question I of course so because Zelda is my favorite game franchise ever so just to go in a video game nerd him for a minute definitely. What's it's your favorite Sela game? That's really tough so so the first one I played I played it a lot was when they did the link to the past like re release on Gameboy okay that was like one of the few games on Gameboy. I played that a lot. <hes> breath of the wild was really good yeah. It's really hard to not to save the wild because it was. That's my favorite. That's that's for me that up until then it was linked to the past if it's definitely worthwhile now yes still haven't played breath while it's a switch. I think it was with the wild. was that like it felt the way that you always kind of your in your mind felt like Zelda should be feeling Zelda all like particularly like a three D ones. It's like you know these big. Grand Adventures are always kind of constrained by the nature of Zelda Games and it kind of just like managed to take that essence of what it bye always felt like in your head you know we thought playing his mate like all that absolute really cool see. I really like wind waker. Wind Waker was granted. Windbreaker was awesome when when Lakers win Lakers awesome one yeah for sure Yeah Ah for me it definitely goes breath the wild and to the past and I gotTa tell you like I'm real. I don't know if you guys have heard of the new Zelda game just came out that any developer did cadence of Jairo halt. All my God is awesome daily good <hes> it is so so it so the music is amazing interests. I actually played a crypt of the Neckar dancer which is like the original game a lot. Yeah I heard it. I heard it's pretty hard it is that crip Krypton necker dancer is really hard but cancel high rule. They definitely scale the difficulty back a little bit because I think they knew like that. They're going to get a lot bigger audience obviously but it's guys it's it's amazing and it's just really cool to see a company like Nintendo. Give property like that to India Anthony and you're wondering. Unlike award are they GONNA do next like go. Please give Metroplitan Indie company. Let them do Tutti one. You know that's what I'm thinking yeah. He's letting income into a Tutti Metro. That's where my head's at you know but anyways I didn't Wanna a throw throw everything off the rails. I had to ask I had no of course of course and I'm really proud that neither you guys are offering time because that's that's the that's the easy answer. Come on yeah. I think if Marcus here he probably say mature mask interesting interesting so well. I said that breath the wild is that's like my favorite video game of all time so ironically. My second favorite video game of all time is the is the game. I'm GonNa talk about an even more ironically ironically. They came out a week apart which is crazy so my item I chose is the focus device from horizon zero dawn <hes> great game fantastic game like I saw him play it. It's funny enough. It's actually it has a lot of parallels to breath a wild like even I heard that definitely back when they both come out so close yeah. I remember definitely hearing that it's almost creepy how close they are because you've got like like you know there's machines out in the wild. You have to kill and it's in a post apocalyptic world and it's very very similar that the one thing I would say though is that I mean breath wild I would definitely say overalls a better game but horizon zero dawn like the story is like one hundred house better so got mixed but like I cried at the end of that game is amazing but <hes> but anyway so <hes> I chose the focus and you know funny enough. This is one of those things like this is not that far from reality body like from where we actually are <hes> which is really interesting but basically for anyone here's merit this <hes> in this game you are <hes> you play a character named alloy and this is like thousands of years after that mankind has basically been been taken out and there's all these machines that live out in the wilderness and people have like there still are people but they've been basically <hes> devolved back into tribes and they they but they there is still technology in the world that they go into these these caves and stuff and they're still lot of like computers around and <hes> but it's very post-apocalyptic. There's like vines everywhere and stuff <hes> but it it's really primitive. It's a cool really cool concept so early in the game. When the main character alloys a child she finds his item called a focus and it's like a little triangle thing that she puts near her like honor ear and it's basically weekly augmented reality so <hes> the purpose of it in the game I it it gives like this globe and front of in front of your character and basically you might scan landscape so that you can if you come across a machine machine you can scan the machine and it will tell you what this weaknesses are? <hes> and things like that but you know you can also like skin environments so you can see what kind of things you can interact with an all that <hes> it's a really really interesting thing ooh and then there's also she discovers later on there's other people that have these devices even though she thought she was like one the only ones because she finds deepen this like cave where humans used to <hes>. It's like an all Blab or something and she find someone else hasn't been able to communicate with each other. If these people have these devices <hes> so again like it's probably isn't really far from where we are. I mean if you think of things like Google glasses and stuff you know basically just a bunch of existing technologies apologies jammed into one abs- absolutely and actually working unlike most of those technologies so from that aspect it seems it almost seems kind of <hes> almost kind of a boring thing to pick 'cause like but right but at the same time like I have like I love kind of the whole idea of like when you see like side stuff and cyberpunk movies and books you know were Oh yeah like you know what our phones going to be like in twenty. He's seventy five or something you know like or twenty one seventy five. You know like I mean are in and you see things like in total recall where the remake which was not a great movie but I thought it was cool. I didn't see it wasn't great but it's interesting because that grid for their phones they just like put their hand on glass and then elect the phone shows up there and it's really it's interesting but I'm like. I just think that kind of technology is like really interesting but I don't know like this is one of those things obviously we don't have machines and stuff like walking around on earth so like I do kinda wonder like how useful something like this could be but what it would it translate until like you can scan your microwave or you can scan your cough. Naturally I would think yeah I was just thinking like you know with with <hes> Google has through through through like a like android to the camera. Now you know you can look at some objects in it can bring you can forget what is and bringing information on them down something similar with us you know yes I mean from that aspect. It definitely would be interesting and <hes> you know like maybe even if you're if you're shopping somewhere and you can scan an item like just without having like your phone do it or something I can tell you like. You know if there's a lower price on that item somewhere something like that like a quick scan so <hes> are maybe even if you could like you know something's wrong with your car and you could like scan your car and it would tell you what was wrong with it. You know so it's like stuff like that. That could be super super useful <hes> I don't know what do you guys think like I mean it seems like everyone. Everyone has a phone. Would you be a little like scanner runs phone and like learn stuff about them. That's Kinda creepy actually well if we well. Here's a question too though like what we have phones if we had these if everyone had one yeah like if everyone had this like. Would it replace the phone. You know I mean 'cause then you know you. Could you would be able to again because you can't communicate. Do these things so <hes> you know. Maybe maybe that's where communication would go. I don't know you know and odd but now I've seen this terrible moment you know how like when you're on the bus and they're someone who's on a phone call and got how like you get annoyed with them but now imagine if they we're actually seeing a person and acting like they were talking to that person and you were standing right where that person was and they were like looking at quote unquote you the entire time reacting to where you are yeah. That would just everyone's doing that. There's there's definitely a lot of creepy ways. You could take this for sure. You know yeah definitely pretty easy to go creepy ABS- absolutely you know be yeah. You know like I think about things like with it. You you know another. You know you can <hes> it will also like here's another aspects on the game an earth thing it'll do. Is there like it will reveal the location of animals so <hes> are an humans actually so you know I it it would also be a way for you to be really aware of your surroundings so because it will light up like animals and humans allied up like orange red or something in it so even think of something simple like what's what if you're on a nature hike and use thinking and you had that thing on and like you could see if there was like a poisonous snake or something near you that you might not even know as their you know or like a bear or something like you'd be able to see them and then it would like help you take extra precaution from that so even something as simple as that could be really cool and the game you can you can also see like the trail of the Yes the enemy right yes. You can know how that really how really translate but yeah yeah. I don't know but like that but that is a good point though yeah like you can you can see the trail of certain machines and see their patterns and stuff so that you can be stealth and all that you know again I'm with you. I don't know how that really translate but <hes> but but it still seems like seeing public transit lines basically yeah maybe something like the modern equivalent yeah that actually yeah. That's a really good point. Point that would be like because those follow the same line. You know <hes> but you know if you're if you're even being able to see humans is really interesting because you know maybe you're in an area where I can't think of the example off top ahead other than like. It'd be really interesting for soldiers you know in in war and stuff like that. I mean that would be interesting. You know you're going through <hes> like a building and you can. You'll be able to easily see if like people are in there or not you know and almost like an infrared type thing so now no no. It's a lot I think there's definitely interesting possibilities and again unlike the hook shot. It's it's it's almost like it's kind of scary because we're probably real almost reels yeah. There's well. There's I'll tell you another one more thing about it is there's points in the game to where because it takes place in like post apocalyptic Colorado and and <hes> I think Wyoming or something like couple of state strip there but mainly Colorado and there's points in the game or you can come across like a run so for say like Mile High Stadium the football stadium in Denver you actually come across that in a game and you can barely tell her Diz but then allows you to scan it and it shows you what it used to look like so that would almost be cool too hugh. If you're like <hes> you know what if you're let's say that <hes> you run a company that does like tours and ancient Rome or something out and then you could like give people all these devices and they could scan it and it would be you could see like oh well. This is what it used to look like right here like this building used to be here type of thing like something like that could be awesome. Basically just see the past right yeah exactly yeah you see yeah you basically the past like something Mike that could be amazing. Yeah definitely be very useful for like detective or <hes>. That's a good point too yeah. Something like that could be really interesting so that was mine. <hes> you know and again like I just Kinda went to one of my favorite games and yeah it was just <hes> that that I think that would be really interesting thing to have and again probably pretty close to reality so I don't have as much science stuff as <hes> as been okay <hes> so when I was trying to come up with the game to to look at I kinda got on the e three hype train I was GONNA ask. That was the first thing I thought about when I saw yours. I was like Oh as like yeah he he. He must have been watching some e three on really really excited Yup. Yes if for anyone who doesn't know at e three <hes> a square is actually making a remake oh final fantasy seven and they showed off a ton of it at eighty three after years of people thinking it was canceled. Yes they've been working on it for a while and they've liked tease trailers in just like silent for year. I think they had some big time development issues and then they just went say it sounded like they had like scrap everything and restoring a couple of times because it didn't they I. He's it on like P._S.. S. Three I think the while I think it was like six or seven years ago it was it's been exile yeah but <hes> yeah one of the main basically the main weapon in that game is the Buster Sword and the the bus distorted is basically just a giant ridiculous sword stupidly big sword yeah. It's it's very stupid sword that the main character cloud strife uses in you've probably seen like the iconic picture curve just him with the sword on his shoulder and I wanted to see what would like what if this sort exist in real life. How practical would it be kind of went the Ben Route of this? I think it's pretty obvious right away that it's not practical by wow impractical as so to start out I I looked at like the largest usable sword in history that that I could find and the what I found was <hes> VI- hinder sword which is German for to hinder his wielded by pure girl off Donya who is a Dutch pirate in the fifteen hundreds early fifteen hundreds and the sword itself was seven feet long weighed fifteen pounds okay they based. They said that he could basically he could be heads several people within one swing. That's how like strong he was that doesn't seem very heavy at doesn't seem very heavy for a sword that big yet. Yes impasse doesn't seem heavier for like a dumbbell but if you think about it if you like pick up a sword the wait is all like away from you. It's all yes all down toward the end exactly that's that's a good point. That's a really good point okay so yeah. This guy was is like super strong. They said that he could benda coined by squeezing it between his fingers just to give an idea of how strong he was so basically I think this is kind of upper limit of what a usable sword is is this this seven foot long fifteen pound sword a sphere so I want to see how does the Buster Sword compare at the Buster Sword is only six few long which is shorter than the spy hinder sword but it is a foot wide wow and yet usually swords are only like a few inches wide yeah but this is a full foot wide holy crap so as as trying to imagine like how heavy this would be but I actually didn't you have to imagine it because unsurprisingly there's a ton of people that have tried to make their own buzzer sorts so again I went the Ben Route and found people that did this for me. It's important we don't have that much free time and and I found a youtube channel called man at arms where they basically just make a bunch of like fictional swords in real life so they're blacksmiths and they light like professional blacksmiths. They make fictional weapons for movies. Oh Nice Ace so they took a stab at this buster sword situation. He's telling me that was intentional. It was not intended house. You Know God yes so they they made the Buster Sword and they made it out of a combination of steel aluminum for the blade and then they they obviously made it six feet long and one foot wide but they only made it three eighths of an inch thick and with these dimensions ends imperials it ended up being around eighty pounds. He's so yeah way way heavier than this fight enter sword already <hes> they actually had they're trying to pick it up and they had trouble picking looking it up. <hes> they needed like two people and then they couldn't really swing it. They just had to like let it drop onto whatever they're trying to cut right yes so that was eighty pounds but <hes> I found in a behind the scenes book for for final fantasy seven advent children which is like a side movie that they made for found fantasy seven in that book Tetsuya Nomura who has a main character designer for the the original game. He said that he intended for <hes> the sword to be made completely at a steel so also if you if you look at like screen shots it's definitely thicker than three eighths of an inch they it's about like an inch thick in screen shot set of of the sword so that I wasn't very accurate but I found a more recent build and his goal is basically just to make it as accurate as possible regardless of how impractical it was right otherwise entirely impractical yes yes. It was ridiculous watching this video but the channels called pretty hate machine he also just builds <hes> fictional swords and he did make this an inch thick and he made it entirely out of a they are five hundred steel which is material that they used to make like gun range targets so he actually broke like a bunch of his tools trying to make this like he is trying to use drills in his drills kept on burning out and stuff like that but when he finished making it ended up weighing one hundred twenty three pounds wow as a point of comparison Taylor Swift ways honor and Twenty Five Pounds magazine Twenty fifteen so when. They finish making this sword he he contact is a guy named Robert Oberstar and Robert Ober. I is the hugh he was second place in the twenty fourteen America's strongest man competition and Eighth Place in the twenty eighteen world's strongest man competition and he tried to lift the sword and he could not lift the sword at least by the handle right so he tried to because they're trying to get like that die conic pose with the sword on the shoulder so that they had like a bunch of people pick it up at the same time in place on the shoulder and he is like really struggling with it and he tried to swing it and he could not swing it so what they ended up doing was they had a guy stand behind him and like throw the sword off of his shoulder so that he could like swing it down because they want to like destroy something with it of course as you would yeah yes so they hung it onto a car. They like threw it into the car bunch of times too for for I guess just for fun my wouldn't you might yeah I would is actually kind of scary watching them because like this thing is sharp and it's also very heavy but they are odd. They're clearly not in control of this sword right that has a sharp edge on it but I mentioned before that it's made of a are five hundred steel so gun range targets tickets they range in thickness and I found a chart that lists the thickness of like hah thick as the tug after be to stop a certain bullet and three sixteenths of an inch like the Rangers three sixteenths of an inch to five eighths of an inch and five eighths of an inch can stop a five hundred PM g which is a fifty caliber machine gun and as a point of comparison the thirty zero six springfield is a common like hunters gun. It's very common and the muzzle energy of the Springfield is two thousand to three thousand foot pounds of force now the fifty b. m. g. has muscled muzzle. Energy of ten thousand hasn't fifteen thousand so it's five times as powerful as Springfield and the five eighths of an inch could stop that now are blade is a full inch which is nearly double that so actually the same video as the world's strongest man guy trying to to lift it like the second half of that video is them shooting guns at it just to see like what could penetrate it if anything so they started at a low calibre and they work their way up and although the low calibre is did absolutely nothing to it and they finally made it to the fifty b. m. g. and when they shot it with that it made like a tiny tiny tiny dent what they ended up doing say ended up using incendiary Gary Bullets which that didn't really do anything but had like a cool blackened effect and then they used armor piercing rounds and the armor piercing rounds did do damage to it but it did not get all the way through there is like a a divet but didn't go all the way through so it's a beefy sword right to say the least you haven't gotten that yet and totally impractical. He told you can't use it at all but I wanted to see if there so I was trying to think of like obviously they can't use a sore but can't use it as something else and I had I struggled thought about. Maybe like a guillotine is like a guillotine. That sort of so I looked at the blade of Guillotine is about the same way. It's a little heavier actually really yeah wow. They need the weight because they wanted they wanna like chop it off in one clean. I guess it's just it's just gravity fed so yeah yeah yeah but the thing with the Guillotine is that the blade is slanted and they do that because it slices instead of chops and slicing his better for cutting heads off I guess and the bus you're sort is not slanted so I think a a normal guillotine would just be better than the Buster Sword Way more efficient for decapitation right yeah <hes> I also thought about maybe like bringing into space because then wait won't be an issue and you could like Wjr you could swing it around no problem yeah cool sword tricks and whatnot look awesome if anything right which I guess you could do that. I don't really know any practical use in space. You're going to run to a very very severe momentum issue issue very quickly because it's like the same weight as you basically. He's swing it. You're gone yeah well. You're not throwing it so you're not gonNA like. I don't know exactly how it would work. I think maybe like the bottom of your body would swing upwards words and you might hit yourself. I don't you can stop it either. Once it gets going yeah probably not so don't do that. Yes they're not a good idea. I did not have any other ideas. I don't know if you guys have ideas whereas I cannot think of anything so basically the question is what do you do with one hundred and twenty pounds of it's bulletproof and sharp does are two. It's two qualities yeah and it's heavy. It's really not efficient for that really practical for basically anything <hes> now I mean I think that like Chris came to the most I mean I think the Guillotine is the first that is really logical as close as we're GonNa get this other uh other than like looking really cool of fireplace like I don't know I don't. I don't know like a ratio yeah exactly like I because there are swords that are bigger than that <hes> that's VI- hinder sort of talking about before but those are all decoration on the they use them parades and stuff yeah for any type of actual like combat. I try to imagine like a fencing match with two busters or I take. I tell you what he's like. I could grunting. I'll tell you what this whole. Conversation has me. Thinking is D- guys remember a few years ago. There was a show on spike TV called deadliest warrior. Do you guys remember that I watched that all the time really this makes me like really wished they would've done like link versus cloud and they could have created a lot of those weapons to see if they were practically shut versus Platt Buster Sore. Oh my God it would have been awesome like our master sword versus the buster sort or whatever like bay was just cool. They'd like recreate those weapons and Stu- I dunno like the fictional stuff they did like they zombies and Vampires and I'm actually looking at it right now. 'cause I was curious about that but yeah most of them are I most of them. Were like historical figures figures against each other are group's but <hes> but yeah like out that would have been awesome if they'd done a video game one that was a really missed opportunity. I'm actually surprised they didn't they did not from what I can see really the only fictional thing and they did zombies and vampires and that was that was the very last episode of the show funny now only had more time yeah exactly yeah but yeah that have been awesome. They made that hasn't missed opportunity. I do not know what us about your sword. Yeah okay well either way. You can still by the sword if you want even though there's no use for it it costs five thousand two hundred bucks but this guy actually he makes them to order so if you order it than Omega for you know how much is shipping cost. I have no idea he he shifted in a like a rifle container that mixon's. There's GonNa be some really like rich cost players going to buy that and be really disappointed when they can't pick it up bright bright what's going to happen. He makes he makes like a ton of other stuff that he can make he made like a tungsten cord Thor Hammer. Oh Wow that's awesome. That's uh now. I'm just imagining though like people gain that being disappointed for some. The reason I'm GonNa be the coolest kid at my smash brothers Party with the sorted then you get there. He came picking up. You have to come to my point exactly I'm hosted. Let's funny okay so yeah that we we answered. The question. Next is the would you rather this week's. Would you rather is would you rather always have to dance when you're in public. DOC are always have to sing when you're in public. I feel like we've had we've had some some similar ones in this in the past where it's really a question of you're going to be incredibly annoying. No matter what you choose right and I think sort of similar to those other third ones like this. I think my my first question is what can I do to like mitigate Boho these singing. You don't have much of Oya. They're going to be super annoying and like obviously annoying. I think if you have to dance all the time you you could at least just like put ear buds in and put him into listening to music and people were still think you're really weird like don't get me wrong. We're going to think you're super weird. That's unavoidable but at least like like it'd be like okay. He's listening to some bang in tunes like there's there's an explanation. Their mind can can give for that. I feel like dancing all the time. We'll get really tiring though counterpoint. Your Cardio is going to be excellent so you just you actually stole my thunder. Sorry it's fine. It's fine go for it. Go for it. If you have elaboration out like my answer. My answer is super practical into the point. I'm a fat kid. I'M GONNA DANCE LOSE weight like I would dance all the time and a terrible singer and <hes> and I like the idea to you could tell he put headphones and you'd look a little crazy but people but people be like they get it. You know people just think you're really passionate yeah at that dude that you'd love life and he is just dance everywhere and then you know they see me a couple of weeks later doing again. They're like Oh. Is that the same guy because he's like way skinnier now so then you got to like that's not gonNa stop ever so you just keep getting skinnier and skinnier. I you know eventually I can just eat more. At least I guess exactly bounce it off. You know you've got the selling point I mean eating and dancing doesn't sound like the best most comfortable Combo. I guess that's true. I guess you would have to dance while you eat because you're dancing well. It's only a public warning public yeah either way. You can't go to restaurants anymore. Yeah that's just a given right yeah you can go to if there's like a bar that serves food and has like nights where they play music dance. You could go to that and people are once again. The're kind of weird if you're dancing while eating but at least like both things are happening. At least you can dance while eating you can't really sing while eating right go to like the roller rink and just like eat yeah eh roller rink hotdogs and just go. Do you feel like dancing is more dangerous though if you're trying to do like important things that's that's a good point that is very true that is true. That's a good that's a good point but at but singing <hes> though at the same time like singing would also limit places you could go like you couldn't go the library and get a library right and I go the library lots. It's like that. Would that would be a huge bummer. If I know the library you know not now I've never seen you like what game with the ear buds and dancing also wonder too like almost feels like you could. Could you control dancing a little more like. Could you like be a little more low. Key in like just kind of shaking in your hips or whatever as a I mean. I guess you could whisper seeing yet. Another Lov is I feel like we have to go all out like you have to be fully committed. You're dancing or singing. That's true. That's a good point yeah. I guess you can't start analyze little variables also either way. I'm still dancing I think I think it's dancing yeah I think I think that's definitely the way I'm going Chris. I'm on the fence. Oh man we haven't had a consensus in a while yeah. Now I'm going to go dancing to. I feel like singing early. Go Singing Harley talk to. I guess you can sing talk to people you. Just you just single yet to say the right. That's what you're gonNA. Destroy your voice like your vocal. Chords can't withstand that much singing okay counterpoint so you will become a very good singer kind of you kind of have to just like overtime automatic you will but you can't sneak up on anyone if you ever wanted to do that. How often do you sneak up on people? Why is that a concern for you? I don't no no it's just a it's a point you want to keep your office open fair enough. Okay now just had this video of you just like sneak up on people but Danson behind people just like totally freaking Dan. That's funny. It's just individual or you're sneaking up on someone in your singing like sneak up song okay you do it. If if you're in like like a restaurant or a store that plays music over the APA years like singing the song that's on light trying to match as closely as possible but seriously like what what isn't it like so we're seeing like are brought up. You know like the library that'd be super room like what is a place where dancing would really at the like be rude like. Is there an example of that funerals touche well. I think a funeral both would be vote. Both are pretty bad but I feel like dancing might be might be you. Could you could play off singing. At least maybe a little bit more or how sad exactly. It's hard to dance. Sadly that that's that's a good point. I think it would like a crowded subway or something or just any crowded place because you got to move around. Oh yeah bad add <hes>. That's that's. That's a good point. That could be pretty bad too but we're just like in your car. That's technically public right like people can see it in my car a lot to be fair. I guess it depends on how what qualifies dancing do you have to like. move of your feet Steph hitting your feet does get complicated but it can do a lot of heavy like hips or I'm thinking I'm thinking shaking. Your hips is probably like yeah Dr Yeah Yeah. That's what I'm saying but I think that should be like the minimum of what constitutes what's dancing right. I'm doing right now because obviously this is an audio medium so it's really helpful for everyone. Everyone can see as a podcast you choose dancing because no one can know exactly this podcast for ossified as saying the whole time yeah the editor Chris. It'd be fine yeah. I guess I'll go dinty you guys. You guys have convinced me all right dancing and you'll just either look like you really happier like you have to pee all the time Oh God. I didn't think I had to go to the bathroom. The public bathrooms bathrooms are dangerous. Criteria was moving your hips yeah. That's true especially. If you're in like a trough urinal type thing like what what the hell are you singing still gonna be weird then too but probably not as his dance. They've been in the bathroom with him before. Who hasn't anyway anyway yeah? That's that's basically it. <hes> before we close out Zack Zack you WANNA plug anything or people find you yeah <hes> I would say you know if you're interested in if you're someone who's thought about writing a book <hes> nonfiction fiction you WanNa write that you know the next great American novel we say <hes> You can check out the career author podcast. You can look it up on itunes or wherever you listen to this podcast <hes> or you can go over to the crew author Dot Com <hes> or if you enjoy reading science fiction books <hes> definitely check out Christmas I I but you can also check out molten universe media DOT COM sets Mike Lava Universe media DOT COM <hes> and all my fixing stuff over there the all the different post pock inside advice stuff that <hes> that I write is over there so you can check it out okay and that that wraps it up tune in next week where we will answer the following question. What if you had to make every decision with the coin flip?

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The predatory publishers sucking science's blood  Updated audio

Science Friction

32:00 min | 11 months ago

The predatory publishers sucking science's blood Updated audio

"This is an ABC podcast Sir. Science Fiction Hey on the Tesha Mitchell. Welcome search this week. The pursuit of a Predator as a reporter. You you get all kinds of of little suggestions. Tips complaints yes. And you can't deal with them all. This one intrigued me. I had started to hear about similar complaints and sort of once. You hear enough of of them. The signal adds up. You think. Maybe there's a story here. What was I seeing? What what the clues that? That major smell a rash. I was a researcher myself. I was a faculty librarian at my university and I did a research probably starting five six years ago I I was always looking for publishing opportunities. I started getting letters and I started to receive these emails. Sort of saying extremely nice. Nice things to me that basically said call for Paper Journal Editors Wanting Me To submit my manuscript to their journal and they had lots of grammatical errors in addition to that one in the emails and then generally speaking editor. I don't say very nice things about you and they don't typically they don't write to you and ask you to submit a manuscript. Will you ever tempted to submit. No no I mean I'm a clinical epidemiology in some of these journals were literally from Soil Science Right. Why would somebody from soil science be asking me and saying Nice things about me? They wouldn't no me from anywhere he's smell. I did maybe several but that rash or several thousand rats via now well and truly on the loose predatory publishes and the predatory journals have become a mega industry global in reach ending ending destructive potential. In fact you're going to hear from someone who believes that this industry represents the biggest threat to science since the inquisition Shen the. US Federal Court recently ordered one of the biggest of these companies to pay up over fifty million US dollars. Only international headquartered voted in Hyderabad in India but also operating in the US claims to publish hundreds of scientific and medical journals. It was found to employ deceptive business practices essentially entrapping scientists to other publishing their journals or participate in conferences. So does the ruling site. bye-bye predatory publishes. Well let's see if Any of that money actually moves anywhere. It's not clear with a mix ex-group will cough up that fifty million dollars which is an estimate of how much the company made from customers over a six-year period or whether it will appeal. We sent a list list of questions to its representatives but yet to receive a reply but it is nice clear message to all the Sake Journal. Publishers of the world that they're being watched touched and there could be consequences. John Bohannon a science journalist and now director of science at an artificial intelligence startup in San Fran called primer. They didn't basically slipping under the radar and using American Canadian and European banks to move money millions of dollars of money from elicit gains. So this court ruling basically makes extremely inconvenient to do now. Joan was asked to present evidence in the case brought against the annex group by the US Federal Trade Commission because he'd had an unusually Hansa with the publisher so mix was one of hundreds of publishers offers. That I tested in sting operation. I wrote some computer code to generate thousands of very bad scientific papers. And what happened next these kind of legendary in science circles back in two thousand twelve John was reporting for the Journal. Science and the expression expression predatory journals wasn't in common news There was a guy named Jeffrey. You who was probably the only person around making a big stink about this and trying to actually Shine a light on it. It was very very bold effort. He had something called feels list or at least it became known as beal's list. My name is Jeffrey Bill. And I'm a retired academic librarian from the University of Colorado Denver professor. Beal beal's blacklist fame and a climb and Notaro He was the first to coin. The phrase predatory journals the Journal. Publishers hated being malysz because it stigmatizes them and meant that their income was decreased. Most of the predatory publishers are predatory not only in their publishing but in just the way they operate in general and they would use the heckler's actors veto. They would call the library director and complain about me and they would try to annoy people at my university as much as possible in order to manipulate those people at the university to make me stop the list so that their complaints would stop. I also received several threats of legal action including think it was in twenty twelve international threatened to sue me for one billion dollars one billion dollars. It was just a threat what I learned from it is that you can basically basically pay an attorney five hundred dollars in all right a threatening letter so they they did that but they never followed through with. It was never introduced in any court personal consequences consequences for Jeffrey of running. That black least were immense. And I'll come back to that. One estimate suggests that there are at least eight thousand predatory journals. This is just one publisher of many. But Jeffrey Bill provocatively calls it. The Evil Empire of Predatory Publishing I stand Dan by that statement and what they do is. They've really hurt a lot of people. You know the scholarly publishing system works on the honor system and people operate in good faith but oh mix international has has totally broken all that down. They use a lot of spamming to solicit article manuscripts from researchers they have journal titles that match the titles of respected journals. Usually one word off enough to confuse people that might be the respected journal in the `field they will at People's names to their editorial boards without the person's permission people from top universities top researchers in the field and they'll use their identity to promote the journal and when the person finds out about it and ask them to remove their name. They don't remove it they just leave it there because they're operating operating from foreign country. There's really nothing you can do about it and especially prey on young researchers in emerging researchers researchers who don't speak English as their first language it's not just scientists from developing countries that are targeted although that easing acknowledged problem clinical epidemiologist. David Mo- assays the crosses reaches into some of America's most delayed institutions including Harvard in an analysis that we did where we looked at a close to two thousand thousand articles published in Predator journals. We found that actually the most frequent corresponding authors were from what we would call first. World countries countries would lots of money and lots of resources that is troubling very very troubling because it suggests that at these institutions authors may not Be Aware of predatory journals and we need to obviously ramp up some educational activities. People think that they're sending the manuscript to a legitimate respected journal. When it's really just a phony dough mix international journal and then they quickly accept the paper without any peer review and then send them an invoice and at that point the authors realized that something is wrong because There was really no peer reviewed done yet. The papers accepted and they have this two thousand dollars invoice that comes through email and the olmecs demanding payment. Most of them asked to withdraw the paper when they realized that they've been duped. But then oh mix says has you can't withdraw your paper unless you pay US withdrawal fee. An often than olmecs will publish the article quickly and one of their journals and then and they can't submit it anywhere else. Because that would be duplicate submission it would be publishing the same article twice. which is something not supposed to do that? Nothing about predatory regionals. He's what he's supposed to happening science as John Bowen discovered when he sent them a taste. Yes yeah so I just wanted some data. It's frustrating to have such an enticing story of you know bad actors that Potentially Ricky and millions of ill gotten dollars dollars and not get some data to find out if it's true so we appear stay in molecular biology from Oxford oppy slave. He plotted an experiment which was pretty straightforward. And the idea in a nutshell is if I submit a really and I mean truly bad scientific paper to your journal title and you accept it with no sign of any peer review and you ask me for money then you're you're a fake journal publisher. Yeah John Wanted to test how easy it was to get published in a predatory journal it can usually take many months years even to get a pipe into a reputable scientific journal. And even then it's not a given. That's partly because of what's called Peer Review essential to the scientific process. So you do an experiment. You brought it up reporting your results. Submitted to a journal and then it gets pulled to shreds by a bunch of other scientists and so it should. That's it's peer review. It's designed to Cape Science rigorous experiments well-designed the results real usable and reproducible. Many predatory regionals site. They conduct peer review. That in fact most of them don't do appear review they go through the motions of period view. They might have like a stock appear of you that they use for every paper that's submitted and basically the papers are accepted in just published almost immediately as soon as the invoices paid and so pure review view is it's it's a fundamental component of how honest journals carry out their business of looking at manuscripts and seeing seeing whether they're fatally flawed or whether they can be improved and whether they're acceptable for publication dive. Moa Is Director of the Center for Gen in a Lola at the Ottawa Hospital Research Institute at the University of Ottawa. Hey and colleagues. Just hosted a global summit on predatory journals because they what a building consensus Ivo what they are and how to shut them down. So is these sorts of behaviors and many other behaviors that are not trustworthy. Jiffy deal when something is published in a scholarly journal that doesn't represent validated science. Then then it pollutes the whole scientific record and can't build on junk science or if you do the future science isn't real science either On science fiction. ABC Iran with Natasha. Mitchell we're looking at predatory publishes and the threat. They pose to science scholarship in truth so back to science journalist John by Hannah. And he's sting operation own predatory journals. mm-hmm you wrote a fake paper. In fact you you actually wrote a computer program to write hundreds of spoof papers yeah actually. It spat out thousands. I ended up only needing hundreds. He's computer program changed the authors affiliations specific chemicals cancer cells and other ingredients have. He's experiment but the funding was pretty much the same and this study was potentially. We'll changing. Yes it was a thrill cure cancer at this John. I was basically claiming that this chemical that I found in this little lichens little plant. Plant like creature was able to kill cancer cells in solution. So you know in principle could inject stuff into your blood like you doing chemotherapy be and it would hopefully kill off the cancer cells and I had these very impressive charts showing the results very impressive. Yeah at face value. The Piper hype is sanded convincing but they will all seed in with glaring eras and this would take literally one minute just one glance really of any reasonable double science who was doing peer review of this paper. You just look at the numbers represented this charts and they just make no sense at all. Just don't make any sense. And the design of his experiment experiment that was fatally flawed too. I mean these are the kind of mistakes that highschool stupid mic like these. This isn't even college level. Mistakes this is just like the biggest most most embarrassing scientific mistake imagine. This isn't subtle stuff and then John Wind even further. I just wanted to like bring it to the next level so at the ended the paper. I have the authors say that you know the next thing we're going to do is test this in humans which to any reviewer should be the biggest red flag I mean aside from the fact that science it looks like completely junk. That's just completely unethical. Then he targeted generals suspected to be predatory including two run by ex scrape one cold medicinal chemistry another biology amid a season of eight months. He submitted ten pipers awake. And what happened. Next is incredible incredible. Any reasonable publisher should have looked at that. Paper said not in no way on that publishing this a lot of journals. Dd Saturday status. Give us give us the very murray doc stats well. The darkest of dark stats is that sixty percent of the publishers accepted my article. So did any any of those sixty percent ask you to make any kind of amendments almost never when they did it it involved formatting trivial changes often they would it asked me to add citations two papers that they'd published which is also really not a good practice but now they almost never did any substantial review an even in the few exceptions that DDP to conduct some kind of Scientific Peer Review Jones paper was often accepted anyway. I even after a damning review. What's more to mainstream totten's of Science Publishing Elsevier and sage court out not much to their embarrassment? Yeah it was grim. That was not a great day for Scientific Publishing and so over. The course of that experiment took months to finish. I just sort of got more and more pessimistic about the publishing world. It really changed my view of the whole industry that I was part of some people who a had been caught up in this thing did contact me afterwards. In fact we got at least one angry letter to the editor from one of these journals that got caught with its pants down but I don't have that much sympathy for them because they had the one job. You know if you're the editor of a journal all you gotTa do is withhold the integrity of the journal and clearly weren't doing that some editors of the more reputable journals I think expressed a sense of betrayal of trust and I wonder what you'll response constant. Oh Yeah Yeah. Absolutely everyone craft all over the whole thing. How else would they have reacted? It was basically like taking the giant dump on their entire world. A couple of editors lost their jobs but considering that they had jobs that a fake journal. I I don't see that it's such a big loss. So he's a handful of us now. In the industry the Predatory publishing industry has not gone away has not left silence infect all indications that it has grown massively strong if you carried out the sting operation again. What do you think might happen? Oh I think the picture would probably be worse if I were to do it again though. I'll tell you what I would do. Is I would send a sample papers to the the publishers who have the more traditional model as well It kind of amazed me that this whole problem that I uncovered was dismissed by many for the simple fact that I hadn't also submitted fake papers to different kinds of journals at so they felt like they were being unfairly picked mcdon- so so did some people in the open access publishing movement and it's a passionate movement. Did they think that you had unfairly. Targeted them in particular. Oh yeah absolutely. They dragged through the mud. It was really unpleasant cleaning shells for the traditional scientific publishing world which is hilarious. If if you've known me at all it's really quite the opposite. I'm quite an advocate for open access everything but whatever it's fine science journalist John Vo Hanan the confusion between the open access publishing movement and predatory journals is perhaps for another edition of the show. It's controversial you say. Both charge authors to publish their pipers. Instead of slugging raiders all subscribe as with phase so the open access argument for that is that opens up scientific knowledge. Like never before I phrase it up from behind traditional gentle pie walls but some believe these author pies model creates inherent conflict of interest and that predatory traded treat publishes of taking advantage of that in order to build prophets and taking advantage of scientists to who had desperate to get published in the publish. This you'll perish culture of science. Some of them are taking up the offer because they're being tricked by the predatory publishers. And that's why I use the term predatory because they're preying on them. They're they're preying on their weaknesses that people need to get published so people are earning degrees. People are getting promotions at universities. People people earning tenure in some cases based on a publications in low quality fake predatory journals that don't conduct any peer review and have have almost no settling at all they accept everything and we've also learned that Pharmaceutical companies are publishing their research to justify the the efficacy of their new medicines are using predatory journals to do that as well. What do you think the key drivers of the predatory journal Sane has been? It's easy easy money. As Jeffrey bills blacklist of predatory journals grew in influence as did. His reputation publishes publishes and others pushed back angrily at him at his criteria for inclusion on the least at his lone ranger approach at his singular antagonism some of open access publishing some went straight to his universities ladyship to attack his credibility and he became a kind of hybrid of hero in. I'm Tara how did his university respond for the most part for the first few years they were supportive of me and the legal office did help me. It is some tricky situations you know that I had gotten in because of the threats from the publishers but towards the end I think they grew weary of me a and the support decreased. Did you ever receive pressure to shutdown. You'll blog from your university. I received a pressure but it wasn't pressure to shut shut down the blog. Things became increasingly uncomfortable towards the end before I retired I retired a year ago. Did it become uncomfortable. The university he did that some things I used to have an office and they took me out of an office and put me into a cubicle. They hired a new person to work in the library. He had two years of library experience and they made him be my supervisor. And you know part of Predatory publishing there's a broader context to it. There's a social movement behind open access publishing. A lot of people want to kill off the traditional publishers and had them all replaced with open access journals so that everybody throughout the world connects us all published research and it's a very Left wing social movement. And so the person that came in as my supervisor was among among those people and so we had strikingly kingly different ideologies about scholarly publishing so. That was way that they were pressured. Me Why did you shut down bills least in in. I think it was two thousand seventeen. Taint it has reincarnated with anonymous editors in some sense to protect themselves from what you went through. But why did you decide to shut it down. Well in January worry of that year I learned that the university was working with one of the publishers on my list and the results of that was that the university initiated a research. I misconduct investigation against me and I knew I hadn't engaged any research. Misconduct myself because research misconduct means means of falsification fabrication or plagiarism. By definition and I knew I hadn't done any of that yet they started this case against me and I felt very stigmatized pies by it and that kind of sealed it for me with the university I take another action against me and now here was something major. A research misconduct case. And that's why I decided to stop the list. What was the outcome of that case the outcome in July of twenty seventeen was snow? Research misconduct found that. Make you feel it made me feel horrible. I felt like my own university that I worked at for seventeen years. I was turning against me and I felt stigmatized and I felt like I really can continue the work. And that's why I shut down the blog and the lists you. I think that was a trigger for that action. Sure it was the publisher that they worked with was a big one and the predatory Tori publishers. The ones that are doing really well are rich. They have lots and lots of money. They can hire lawyers to go after people and they can organiz well. And there are several very large very successful predatory publishers out there and and they have a lot of power and they. We'll go after anybody who threatens their income was that publisher the publisher was frontiers. So you'd assist them to be a predatory publisher and yeah and I had lots of evidence from stuff that they had published. They published an article about Chem trails in the Sky Cam conspiracy theory yeah. They published an article about that which they quickly retracted. After I wrote a blog post about it. They they published an article saying that. HIV doesn't cause AIDS. So I had lots of lots of solid evidence that they weren't really conducting Valla Peer Review. I mean that's bad science. It's not necessarily making them and predatory publisher plenty of crap lanes in good journals But it gets gets retracted and publishing junk. Science is one of the criteria that I use to evaluate publishers. I mean you're if you submit at an article to a publisher thinking it's good publisher when they're publishing crap science poor science that is a type of predation against honest researchers. They don't want to be associated shared with junk science a spokesperson for the University of Colorado Denver. Where Jeffrey held a tenured faculty position would not comment on any research misconduct misconduct investigation but tolls friction that the university quote defended and supported Professor Bills Academic Freedom to pursue predatory publishing as part of? He's scholarship junk. hunk is the science in predatory journals. You and colleagues have have conducted a study to analyze the quality of the research that the studies that Mike it into that are accepted by predatory journals. What's striking observations? Did you make the Quick Tanko. Messages at the quality of reporting of these articles is really horrendously bad epidemiologist David Moa at the University of Ottawa. And when we compare that to do what we might consider is the legitimate literature it. It's very very much worse. And that's not to say that there aren't problems in the quality of reporting sorting of Legitimate Journal. There are but when we moved to predatory journals it suggests that there's the the screening that's going on so for example. We consider peer review in a sense of screen of the integrity. And the scientific composer of the research is perhaps not going on many of these papers. These are funded by Reputable agencies and so in a country like Canada where much research is paid out of You taxpayer dollars. It's really very very wasteful. It scientifically very problematic won't be seeing won't be cited and of course it's a waste of money any and it. It may also contribute to sort of adding layers of fakeness to what people are trying to get at is the truth because they don't conduct a proper period view and their publishing bogus science. If you have an agenda A nonscientific agenda agenda pseudoscientific agenda. You can use predatory publishers to publish your work. You know two of the biggest open questions in in science are what what is the nature of dark matter and what is the nature of dark energy this is from cosmology. And there's no scientific consensus as to the answers to those two questions in their big big questions in cosmology and physics. The biggest questions of all I think so but those questions have been answered. Many times in predatory journals are knows. There's lots of people writing articles claiming that they've discovered the answers to those questions in the predatory. Publishers are happy to accept them as long as the authors pay the fee and and they're published. There's some out there that would happily publish your paper saying that. Vaccines Cause Autism or that. There's no global warming occurring or that nuclear power is is going to destroy everybody. A bread causes cancer. Anything you want to write you can ride it and they'll publish as long as you. Pay The fee David. Mo- assays that like fake news scientists and citizens and clinicians and now struggling to distinguish fact from fiction in predatory publications and he wants a global observatory. Set Up to scrutinize they practices the problem. Is that many of these predatory predatory journals they are now making their way into Trusted sources over example for many researchers clinicians enjoy patients. They may look a pubmed put out by the National Library of medicine. The United States and big data rice of scientific pipers a huge database. And and what we see is that they're getting infiltrated. With articles from predatory journals they are funded by esteemed institutions funding institutions such as the National Institutes of health. And what is the patient to do. What's a clinician to do? Will these people make decisions based on on on that sort of evidence and I think that that's an incredibly problematic. Geoffrey beale believes makes international will survive despite the recent US federal fifty million dollar court ruling against them but we'll save science from they sorts of publishers of predatory journals. I don't see the problem going away. In fact. In some a lot of countries the open access advocates have been successful flagging governments. To pass laws requiring federally funded work to be published in open access journals. So they're there. When the predatory publishers here about these laws they are ecstatic about them because it helps them because a certain percentage of the people are going to be publishing in in the predatory journals whether by mistake or or intentionally in they will be the market the market is there and it's encoded in law now increasingly so they had a we stop the open access movement? which many says a positive thing you don't From being infiltrated by predatory publishes. I don't know a way to stop them. Publishers have freedom of the press. And there's really no laws. They're not breaking any laws in most cases unless they engage in and identity theft or other things like that but for the most part they're they're completely sanctioned by by governments because of freedom of the press. Uh John Behan. I think we're GONNA have to reinvent how we do things this old fashioned way of submitting a paper and having some mysterious peer review ooh that no one ever sees happened behind a curtain and results in yesterday. No I think we may have to really put some effort into alternative models and they do exist. I it's just that that's a big culture change. You could make pure review transparent for example you can have the review part of the record of the paper. Let's really embarrassing harassing. It's scary for most scientists to think of a worldwide. That's the norm. So there's a lot of resistance there are certainly if it's on the to open up that whole peer review prices Isis and in fact even crowd source at. Yeah that's one way forward another would be you have some kind of Global Auditing System. Where you know someone like me me doing a sting operation like I did is just continuously rolling along to find out if you're keeping your word of doing period view that's expensive and unlikely likely to happen because everyone has to agree to do it well in some sense? Some might be surprised to hear that it's not happening at all and that anyone everyone pretty much anyone could establish a scientific journal put it online make it look legit and start making money. Oh Yeah you and I could make a journal right now. I can and fifteen minutes to wordpress site and attach a bank count to it. I mean what he reckon these a fancy name. What should we used? Ralian Million Journal of Melbourne San Francisco Melbourne Frisco Journal where we can work. On that the John Bohannon Geoffrey Beale and David Moa joining may today and thank you for your ears. Thanks to co-produce Jane Lee Talk to me on twitter at the tash cashew Mitchell or email me at the science friction website. And I'm back with all spanking brand new shows twenty twenty next week June in shared the podcasting getting touch by. You've been listening to an A._B._C.. podcast discover more great A._B._C.. podcasts live radio and exclusives on the A._B._C. Listen APP.

publisher the Journal Peer Review United States editor David Moa Legitimate Journal John Bohannon Jeffrey Bill University of Colorado researcher Jeffrey Paper Journal San Fran University of Ottawa John director Tesha Mitchell
Episode 718: Karen Swallow Prior

Relevant Podcast

1:21:13 hr | 1 year ago

Episode 718: Karen Swallow Prior

"From the creators, relevant magazine. This is the relevant podcast. It's Friday, June twenty-first, two thousand nineteen and it's the relevant podcast. I'm your host Cameron Strang in here with me in our Orlando's views are, are filling engineer Clark flip up. Hey, hey Taylor's off selling a house right now. He's, he's not a real estate. He he's moving out of his condo and they're closing right now. Right at the exact hour that we're having a require a little boys, all grown up is the Skype line from lovely and Virginia. Jesse Kerry, alot joining us from gator land, Florida. Eddie bay cacophonous. Yes, the Friday shows and sitting the whole show today. Our friend, entrepreneur mogul, Liz Bohannon. Hi, everybody. That's exactly how you wanted us to say it. Right. Liz. Comma, mogul here. Never me. Business Maples don't even explain what I'm a mogul to explain the fire is too big to be described. It's too many things. So you're in Portland and you lied. Tell us I lead a socially conscious fashion brand called Saco designs. Many of you listeners have heard her on the show here of the previous few months. He's been joining us, and it's been a lot of fun. Those of you who haven't been listening. You may remember her from shark tank. Shark news was on back. We're bringing that in, how do you feel about that? I feel great about it. It makes did I tell you that I've never actually seen episode. The further out it gets, I read this article once about memory in how like the more often you recall a memory actually, the more inaccurate it is. Because everytime, you recall a memory your environment like your emotions from the from the present moment that you are recalling it why're recalling who's with it, all, like influences it, so I've never actually seen that persona and it's been like, I don't know probably four years. So every time I recall, it, I'm very intrigued by, like, I'm just continuing to kind of make up the story of how it went and it's like of all in my brain. Brian Williams, NBC news anchor also tower sitting across from me at shark tank. Yeah. Exactly. But you've never been tempted to watch it. You never like I wonder how I wonder how that came together, and editing literally, well so we had a launched party. So I did see it kind of there's one hundred people around in, you know, very I wasn't like focused on it. So I have a general idea of how it went, but no, I've literally never been tempted. I'm just like way too hard on myself and I knew I know if I watched it would just be like fifteen minutes of self loathing, and I'm like, I don't need that in my life. So no. Liz, Liz, let me give you this little bit Brienne, and I saw it live. We were watching the show, and I will in our member your pitch. And I will tell you not good. It was really shameful but you're gonna we've just we've been working on our hundred issue relevant. Right. And one of the one of the people that joined us to kind of talk about the social entrepreneurs and things that have changed over the last, you know hundred issues was Blakely husky, who founded Tom's. Right. And so, I was I don't know why I was doing this Google. I mean I know is stories been waiting for while, but I read his by over the first time and Blake before Tom's had a number of businesses. Come and go and before that he was a contestant on the amazing race. His sister that knowledge I'm just like mean yet when I interviewed him for the podcast years ago like when Tom's was sort of just blown up and everything. We talked all about it. And I don't think it made it to final show because, like, you know, boring but it was really crazy to hear like I mean amazing race is one of the coolest shows ever to be on guys. Real talk, real ready. Eddie, you are proficient? In viewer of reality TV layers. You have a you are a star of reality TV Cameron. You are a washer of the human condition and Bravo. Here's my question for you guys. Fair Ivan, Ivan saving up. Some vacation time. How do you guys think I would fare on survivor, because on thinking about two hundred all dishing tape getting a British accent? So I decided my persona and going for that million dollars things from who Desi Jesse. You know, that in real life, we have actual connections to the people who run that show. I know. That's why I don't want to take the route. That's why I'm going to be brought in to British people out of. Pitch it bit the relevant cast goes on. No, no, no. Just jesse. I want to see him in the wild with strangers. You know, like, hey, listen. I think he'll turn it into a different person. I if we're on with them, he won't feel free to go full like sabotage mode. You know, like I think you'd be too friendly to us too much credit. If he's in. Flies is gonna come out real quick. And Mr. Desi, regardless of on the island. Listen, here's here's why watching reality TV the guy with the verdict accent, always last a long time. He's always the most intriguing character of the bunch people keep them on because they're just curious about. I won't reveal to the final. What's that thing that they do they unlike one of the candles, they have a name for that meeting the rose ceremony? Yeah, yeah, the final rose ceremony. I'll be like I just want to thank everyone for having me on suckers. And then I. Cheri. Take off my, you know, Union, Jack that even wearing to reveal a gigantic American flag tattoo on my chest, but a million dollars back home Jolie, honestly, truly you would be great on that show. Like just you even just as you, you would be, so you're so smart. You're you have basic pretty nascent physical Europe, friend friendly guy to be around. You do great. Have you actually considered really good eyebrows? And I only. I don't I don't watch survivor. But my, my question is I thought the whole thing about survivor, isn't it like you need to, like bond with people, so you have alliances so you keep you keep going. And then at the end, basically all the alliances fall apart because the train standing, but yeah, but jesse's friendliness I think would get him to the final third of the show, don't you? I mean. They might cold hearted side. My cold hearted villain side will come out. I think there's two options, I think Cameron exactly what you just said. Or I think week one show, one in the first time in survivor history, the entire cast as formed an alliance Jesse him out, and every one to be around, you guys anyway, every single one of them in there like standup interview, you know, that they're doing secretly talking about why they're dislike this dude. Never stops talking like he just constantly and they're just like we can't take on the island. He can't get him to shut up. And we know he's faking that British axe get him out. If I'm allowed to say this, I might not be able to, but I have a friend that was on survivor. And I believe her when she told me that she got set up in got kicked off in, like the first round or first episode set up by her cast or. It was higher powers. The producers God candy bar in her bag or like something. I didn't watch the season but. Your friend, your friend was on the show and you didn't bother to watch. Hey, well, I show my love in other ways Cameron mom's friend to be fair. So she was older. Yes. She was in for like these or something. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that I might be tempted to watch this, because my friend Liz's mom's friend was on the show. You couldn't even be bothered. Yeah. A lot of things that are, you know, well, our attention over here in mogul land. I think we're learning though the step one to becoming a mogul Christian, socially conscious mogul is step. One go find some casting agents and get on a reality TV show in LA. Think about like chip and Joanna. They are the moguls of all moguls with reality show, late Makovsky reality show, someone name a third because saying things in threes, makes him seems legit. Do for Hanan. No. Because my was like, I think I Ben, I went and got rejected on television Higgins. Yeah. Ben Higgins from the bachelor now, doing socially, good coffee company and stuff. Yeah. Okay. I there, there have been quite a few, I think bachelor spinoffs as well. It's, it's for sure. It is a strategy. Yeah. I wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket. Well, all of mine are already there. They I've gone in one hundred percent on this thing. And if it doesn't work out, I will be devastated. And I will you know, I don't know what I will do because this is plan. A NC is the survivor thing at this point. So we'll see. We'll see three years ago, you're playing was still to become a professional athlete. But now shifted to. That's right. I've had, you know had some priorities shifts in the thing is like as many opportunities that did open to me at that point. I just, you know too much time away from the family just knock all the time away and one stent one season of survivor in the comeback home. The lifestyle professional athlete, like I said, as many doors were open to me. I just decided you know, I don't want to put the family through that. So even if you get kicked off the island, you have to be a way for the whole time they like put you up in a resort afterwards. Because if you come home, everybody will know the outcome of the season. So you could if I if I was just in a desperate need for a sabbatical real Roque. I would just go on survivor kicked off in week one and then just go drink some my ties right. That makes me that makes me really something Liz, when you were on shark tank, you couldn't talk about the result of shark tank. So does hundred people not know how like if you if you the pitch accepted or not correct. Yeah. We couldn't tell anybody. And we were I was like I did my job. I was tight-lipped reality show. Producers out there. You can trust me. Disproved myself. But yeah, no, we couldn't tell anybody. So that was that was a really real. I think we told like our team and our employees and, like people that were in the business that needed to know. And there was a large gap, we filmed it in September, and it aired in February. And we couldn't talk about it all. Yeah. So it was kind of crazy and it's big thing, the kind of like one, you know, process and talk about and. It was a good exercise in zipped lips. Yeah. Coming up on the show today. We have a great great show store coming up later Karen, swallow prior joins us season. Acclaimed writer and she has a new book out called cultural engagement, a crash course in contemporary issues, we thought who better to be on the episode with Karen, swallow prior talking about contemporary issues and cultural engagement than Liz foregin Bohannon, who Google, what is happening in culture before she comes on the show. It Liz last night, and this is it's been long enough, but I came back a stupid small local naive part of me thought, maybe that was going to be forgotten. Can I ask you a question off their did you term in quotes pop culture today before show star? On. She went down to our local CVS got a copy of Entertainment Weekly read it front to back and is totally ready for showy. Right. That's ready. What's happening in culture? Coming up next, we'll have the hot list status. Two four on his dancing around at the beginning of the podcast. You heard courtship with guy stuff today show's brought to you by squarespace. 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So I told him relevant relevant season. Remember everybody just. Yeah. It's also easy to guess, but you can also say also, you can also tweet to the founder and CEO of the company and host of the show. To help you out. Let me send you the link there buddy. Listen, I use offer code relevant, as a fail safe for everything everything, I know, intimately, all of the ads that we, we have sold, but even when I'm at the gas station, and they, and they say, okay, you've entered your, your credit card now zip code. I always press in relevant one time just to see Worby Parker look glasses. Punched in relevant to see. Yep. Still active. It was still accurate. I last year we were looking to buy a tuft and needle mattress and casper and stuff and sure enough, the relevant, promo code worked for one of them. So. Dusting IBM computer in the corner of the Worby Parker office. A little red light just went off on top of it now, like wow. We have not seen that in years. Fly go, and I ask, like are you sure there's not a free upgrade to first class? And I just look right at the person ago relevant, and they stare at me and say, no surplus take seat. We're not worth the shot to speaking travel yesterday. I flew up in the apples for a lunch meeting at a meeting at lunch, flew up in the morning. Mogo would say no, no, no. Flip in the morning. A three hour sleep super early fly. Got there in time for lunch. Had the meeting in went back to the airport, right? Got there at three for four o'clock flight. Oh, there's tornadoes in Orlando. The, the plane was grounded in Orlando, because, you know, it flies between Orlando Minneapolis and back just flies out that route on delta. And, and so the, the plane was stuck in Orlando, because a weather, and I didn't I didn't lay my head on my bed last night till four thirty in the morning. Like I was stuck in the Minneapolis airport until after midnight, and it was supposed to be four o'clock flight, eight hour delay because of twenty those in Orlando, a Minneapolis airport is a hotbed of activity do there. Favorite airports in the United States is fantastic. Really? Airport is on point three years in a row number one airport in America. They have billboards no way. I think Portland has won it in the last three years, Portland's my number one favorite airport. United States Cording to the self promotional billboards all over the Minneapolis airport, obviously to be trusted and by voted on board. Here's what I love about the Portland airport. And I've only I've only flown out of there. I think a couple of I can't remember like maybe twice flying out of the Portland airport. But I you know, Portland, when you think about Portland, Liz, you can tell me if this is accurate. I you know, you think of it's of granola sort of hip story the carpet in the Portland airport. Looks like they took a conversion van that some AP's like in the early eighties made into their house. And like the fabric on those seats is now the carpet for the Portland airport. It's a very, it's a very wild card and has. Conic sweatshirts by, like actual swears of the carpet has a. I have a pair of socks with the pattern of that carpet on them, some money like needs to Portland, gave them to me. But the Portland airport does have a really good restaurants, though. Like very restaurants. And here's the thing. The restaurants have to charge the same price in the airport as they charge off site in their normal locations. That's amazing local Portland based beloved restaurant, food for their like street prices. Which, by the way, are really good because Portland has by far the number. We are the number one city in America for your dollar food and beverage in, in a hole in the whole country. And you can get that at the freaking airport. I thought Minneapolis was just to be fair. Think you may be thinking of Minneapolis there along. Yeah. The one downside, you do get a lot of your money, but most most everything is made with, like weird artisan. Honey in your sure a lot of these Pharmatech. Clean this supposed to be chunky. Yeah. Be parts in this debris. Whatever wings. For sure. My hamburger has a b wing in it. Harry. Was treated with dignity. True. Weirdness to shored, but it fallen tearfully gave you that wing for that small bit of protein out of its own free will, and up until that point had a beautiful life. No. This. When you go to buy a house in Portland. It's weird. If they don't have a working beehive in the backyard and most of the master bathroom closets come with a couple of beekeeping suits. It's just part of the thing up there. You know, I haven't been to Portland's airport about nine months, but my recollection is like when you lay in, like, say Austin, Austin, airport step out of the plane smells like barbecue. My recollection of the Portland airport is you step house playing this coffee is that accurate? Yes, and B O because aluminum Israeli bad for you. Where's the other the day, just rope? Honey in their armpits and. It's, it's very sticky coconut oil, which does have antibacterial components. Liz, you don't wear dealer in to you. I win. Making portlanders and then I am I am. I am. I am I do I wear aluminum. It's drew. I'm not even gonna say that it works as well. I absolutely admit it. But I might live a little bit longer than you guys. Yeah. That's true. But to what cost? All right. It is time for. It's all right coming in at number five this week on the hot list. If you wanna follow along, as you can just Google pop culture news. Real quick. You can rely on with me coming to number five. Joel McHale this week wore a preacher's and sneakers hoodie to the night celebrity pro am there's a lot of trendy terms in that sentence? Here with you. I know preachers and sneakers good. There you go. Okay. Good for you. I know two of the three pop culture terms mentioned in that headline. Mine. That is a fortnight this weekend at the EPA games, held its fortnight celebrity haram and the comedian was one of the celebrity competitors on hand for the eventual Mikhail had a very interesting wardrobe selection, a preachers, and sneakers hoodie. So there's a caption to the video from the preachers sneakers Instagram feed in, but it seems the hoodie may have been intended for another person, another celebrity at that tournament. So the, the caption said when Joel McHale tells you, he can get a hoodie on marshawn Lynch, then proceeds to keep it for himself. So Mikhail apparently isn't the only celebrity to Rocco hoodie from the violence game account that displays images of pastors rocking very expensive. Footwear may remember last week roots, drummer quest love or some to the premiere of the movie shaft, in a recent interview with relevant Joan McHale opened up about his faith in the role it plays in his life. He said for me faith has been sanctuary but. Not somewhere. I hide it's not a place. I go Sunday morning before I go out Sunday night to deal cocaine this not like these things are compartmentalized. Once you start believing it's nearly impossible to extract yourself from faith. It should be in every part of your life. I don't know what I would have done without it. And I shouldn't take it for granted. I need it. I need him capital H all the time. I means God. Yeah. It wasn't talking about his driver. Is he talking about marshawn Lynch there? Right. All the time. Yeah, the, the irony of preachers, and sneakers becoming like a very into manned brand itself, when they're their home goal was the sort of make. At the whole contract of brands that, you know, base their value in scarcity is kind of ironic. It's gonna be great is when the preachers and sneakers people figure out the margins for a sweatshirt and are lying, actually, I am going to sell that for two hundred dollars. That's a really good idea and people will buy it Lizzie. You work in the fashion industry as I'm curious about your opinion of the preachers sneakers whole that whole deal. Okay. We'll make confused by the way that you are talking about it. Correct. Sleet was like pointing out the kind of hypocrisy in, in the church around like having pastors who are, theoretically, like their salaries are paid for out of congress pockets that are wearing twelve hundred dollars sneakers and when I wrong, I thought it started out as a kind of, like, you know, like way back in the day when dole seed more those like three thousand dollars snakeskin boots on the cover of magazine. I thought it was like the hip relevant Instagram version of pointing out all those things. It is. But I think it's also I, I think it's multi-layered because I feel like there's some built in commentary about, you know, a society that has, you know, because a lot like a lot of this is, is basic, some of its luxury like some of it's like, you know, Gucci in, you know, Louis Vuitton. And but some of it's just like exclusive street wear stuff. So I feel like it's kind of, you know, making commentary about multiple elements of it, but I think it doesn't change the irony of it, it self becoming a brand an apparel, Brandon away. You know, I actually didn't know that they were their own apparel, brand at this point. That's like a brand new thing. I really is just it really is just like basic clothing items with their logo on it. So they're basically just trying to I think cash on some of the popularity which I totally get I just feel like I don't know what I'm saying. If I wear a t shirt that has their logo on it. I'm not quite sure what my statement is. But I kind of feel. Without the whole account, the ambiguity, which I think, is kind of brilliant, like they don't make commentary bay like post facts, selectively curated about who's wearing what and how much it costs in. So I feel like it kind of lets you because I think like oh, you're kinda throwing shade. And like, if I were a pastor, and I was like seen onstage wearing a pair of thirteen hundred dollar boots while I'm like, preaching about, you know, it's the. The eye of the camel, like ooh, that's interesting in. Meanwhile, it's probably a brand that's like largely working with child slaves in China. So I like see that. And I'm like, let's ref but I feel like a lot of those guys, probably see it in her like, oh, I'm so fly, look, I'm getting I'm getting. Air, you know. So I'm kind of confused about it. How do people that are featured on it feel is that like a cash or is it like nano they're being publicly shamed? I mean they're not it's not like to have badge of honor. I mean you know, it's mentality online public shaming. I mean, and so that I mean, if it I mean, some of the ones that I've talked to it's really bothered them and affected them. What if they done in response to that is it like I'm bummed because I got called out now I'm not gonna wear a couple of curious as to why. Because that's what I actually think it's kinda brilliant about it is that it doesn't draw the conclusion for you. It doesn't say like were shaming this person or this person should be humiliated. It's literally like on this day in this place in this context. It's like here's the fact, here's the fact, here's the fact, there, you go, which I think is kind of really interesting. So it leaves like some level of ambiguity to like, well, if, if that feels shameful to you that someone's just like stating a fact without drawing the. Conclusion, maybe there's something to be said for that. There's a lot of Simpson's in what you're saying, because, like the one some of the guys like I don't I don't know everybody on the feed and a lot of them went to the mall, paid thirteen bucks for those, those boots, but a lot of the ones that are like the sue. The rare sneakers like the question is fundamentally. What is the issue is it that we don't like the style or we don't like that? They paid that money out of their pockets on an income. That was derived from speaking, and ministering, you know, and so- pastoring and so, like a lot of the guys are going, I, I dress like this, because this is the style enjoy. And I have a friend at Nike who gives me this for free. And so I didn't pay that. I wouldn't pay that. And, and so they're put out there in the public going. I look he wore this, and this is what other people have paid for those shoes. Let's shame him. But he's going didn't pay a dime. And so he's like, why, why can't I wear cool shoes? That were free. You know, but there's a lack of self awareness and that perspective in the going, you know, it's like, but if it's causing other people to make a sumptuous about you, and how you spend resources and stuff like that, you know, maybe we need to step back and look at that and have a little bit more self awareness. I mean so again, there's like the natural from some of the guys I talked to there's like this, and eight defensiveness going. You don't know me. I didn't do that. You know, like, and then the modern and the mob mentality is like I can't believe he would use money to pay that. And it's like nobody's dealing with actual facts in nuance. It's all massive assumptions on the on both sides, and it's like that's where it's unhealthy. I'm going the commentary the statement, hey, we needed check our hearts when you talk about this, you know, in the eighties nineties preachers on TV were five thousand dollar suits. Now they're wearing thousand dollar sneakers, you know, it's the same thing, you know, so it's like you know, we need to talk. About that as a generation. But at some point, this method and that platform is getting toxic. I mean, if you read the comments is horrible. Well, like the, the other element to and, and Liz, this is something you're probably really knowledgeable about firsthand is, like they, I feel like modern evangelical ISM has degree conflicted, frugality, with some with, like that being ethical, where it's outer. Yes. It's, it's like a type a certain type of holiness is Brig -ality for sure. And that's the opposite side of the spectrum that it's like oh girl. That's cute. And someone's like, gosh, thanks so much. I got two dollars ninety nine cents on super sale at, you know this. And it's like this idea that just by getting amassing stuff for cheap. You're like a good Christian because you're like frugal, the opposite side of that is obviously engaging in luxury. I would say there's a really healthy middle ground that actually has much less to do with the price that you paid for something in more like your thought an intention behind how you're using your power as a consumer to support the beliefs in the world that you wanna live in exact because if you're a person of a certain means you could there could be a case to be made that, you know, a eight hundred dollar pair of Gucci boots that were made by talion craftsmen who are compensated, very well for making those shoes is more ethical than a twenty dollar pair of WalMart shoes. That was probably made in a factory with, you know, potentially shady conditions, and shady in. Mental regulations. It's there is a lot of nuance there that it's difficult to say like oh, who's. Right. New frong. It's just ironic at the brand that kind of brought some of this, the forefront of the conversation is itself becoming, you know, kind of this Iraq, notable name in fashion itself. Well, the I saw that the guys are the guy doing it as he's doing limited runs, like three days of like hoodies or whatever and all the money is going to causes. It's not. He's not from what I what I understand. He's not profiting from any, yes, you know, so anyway, I think you do bring up a really good. I mean, I will say, I think when you are in the public sphere, specifically in the faith space, and you are a leader it is kind of on. You, you, there's a different level of do I just because something is free. And you think it's cool. Is it in the best interest of you and the people that you're leading to take that I think I think it's fair to say there's a level of intention that probably needs to go. To your decision making. I'm not saying what that decision should be. But I think it's fair of us to ask for higher standards. However, the public shame method of creating conversations like that. I do think is incredibly has the potential to be so toxic in so dehumanizing in it's like creating something in us as humans. Like it's like you know, you watch these, like old school films about, like, in the fifteen hundreds in people are getting their heads cut off in, like literally people see it as like entertainment. And there's kind of this idea that you can go watch someone you know beheaded and then you can also watch somebody be publicly shamed in it turns into this, like entertainment. I'm all for examining. What is happening in the human heart when we are entertained by people getting publicly shamed and humiliated. And I think it's really toxic. But at the same time, the those who are in front, and they. Some of them dismiss it all together that it's like that's just a bunch of haters, or those are, you know, and they aren't listening than I'll have years to hear an hearts. You know, they're not listening and so like to me, there's this battle unhealthy battle lines are being drawn like versus them and stuff. And I'm kind of going as a leader, if you're called the be out in front like and this isn't about shoes. This is about all the choices in your life that you make like how you spend your, the, the example that you're setting like am. I spending my resources in a way that I would say, follow me, as I follow Christ to the people who follow me. You know what I mean, like, yeah, I might have means, but like, you know, is it going to is my lifestyle choices the, the life that I show is going to cause people to know the Lord or is it going to push them away? And you have to have that filter if you're in leadership, I mean, you shouldn't probably put, you know, it may be okay for you to drink in moderation. That may be your. Conviction. But the people in your congregation come from a wide spectrum of feelings about drinking, so it's probably not wise for you to put on Instagram you hanging out at the bar with a couple of guys even if you're totally fine. You know what I mean? It's just it's going to cause a lot of people stumble and it's not going to point people to Jesus. And so you kind of go in, you know, you got to have that self awareness of gone is, is the way a modeling my life like helping the gospel. And so I don't. Yeah. Again, there's a million nuances in why you make the decisions you make. And is it a good use of resources time energy? Are you living in a way that Jesus called us to live and everybody's different opinions and stuff? And so just because somebody's conviction levels different than mine. I can't you know, it's hard to not snap judge them, and it's, it's both and I mean, the people in leadership need to be more aware and conscious and the people who are in the congregation, looking at them need to be more aware, they're human, too, and we need to, like, what am I what's going on in my life that wouldn't fall in line? You know what I mean? Like. Everybody is at fault here, you know, and, and preachers the sneakers, I think the guy the kid who started it, you know, just wanted to kind of like he was like this is odd should we talk about this? And now it's like turned into this incredibly toxic thing. That's dividing generation, I'm kinda going, ultimately, it's not healthy. You know, this is not a healthy platform for this. Yeah. But I don't think that's the preachers sneakers, I think he just opened up the Fisher. That was waiting like, right? Right. It was going to happen. It was going to happen, somehow and granted, there is responsibility for actions. But part of this too, is, it's not should we be engaging in this, or should they be more wise? It's what do we expect of these people like what, what standards should we be holding a pastor to be our moral compass, and authority, because, like I don't really care if Garland's is wearing fancy shoes, because I'm not I'm not trying to, like, look at him and say, like, okay, this is who I gotta be if I get. This. Right. If I can figure out my life, if I can be the Christian that I hope to be, then then I'll be Kerr lens, like, I'm not looking at any of those pastors like that these are human beings that have an ability to read, scripture, and teach in a way that's entertaining that is that is like, okay, so that's interesting. And that might be where I feel like that's the definition of what has led to the modern, like celebrity pastor phenomenon that I actually think is really unhealthy in general, your earlier, Christian, and you're like charismatic and you can talk about the bible. I think it's a lot of people who desperately wanted to be performers in some capacity, and then they found that it's like, okay, why can't I for whatever reason I don't want to or can't cut it in these areas. But Christianity has this like pathway for me where I can be famous via like being a pastor, and I Don, the Auteuil that the scripture set up for biblical. Pastoring in leadership. And I think it's one of the things that's, like moons broken about the American church. But, but it's but it's tough because, like, the, the more people that you can reach with the gospel. Why the more people that can particularly be impacted. And, you know, kinda logical conclusion of that is to try to, you know, create more people are going to gauge with Reinhard Bonk, right heart bunk. You would have a, you know, a crusade and Nairobi that would have a million people there and seven hundred thousand people get commit their lives to Christ and get plugged into local churches. They had followed programs like that. But, like Reinhard bunking needed to be inter -taining and have the resources to be able to pull that off. And like I, I don't I don't think anybody spires to be a celebrity preacher. I think it's just you do. Oh cameron. Yes. I mean, I think but I think who aren't because I the guys who are known nationally, I don't think are aspiring to, I don't think fame factors in. I think they, they want to have impact drinks under that. Here's the reach. Yeah. I agree with you that there are researchers and their but those usually vet the those kind of themselves out, usually, right? I mean, yeah I don't I don't know. And I don't know the, the people, and I don't know their hearts, but I will say that the preachers and sneakers thing got me like as I peel, the layers over time it wasn't that they were doing that. It was that I was disappointed, and they were doing that because I wanted them to be something that they just they don't need to be for me. They do not need to be my moral compass, and authority. They are people who are really good at preaching and people who are really good at organizing church. And I if I felt like part of the preachers sneakers thing put me in. Right. Like helped me, remember, like the right position of all of this, because really like I should be looking. My hope is to be looking to Jesus for that kind of leadership. And if they're gonna wear really expensive. It's like well, that's, that's a choice. But I'm not they haven't somehow failed me just because they spend what would be too much money for me. Does that make sense? Like a I think it's almost more than a reflection on the people that are freaking out about it, then it is on the actual human being. That's what I'm saying. Because like the guys, again, not all of them, but some of them are, like, like this is they did not pay that money. So, like I don't care like it doesn't affect me at all, like, it's Gotti and silly lookin. Some of them, some are really dope, but, you know, they didn't pay that money. So it doesn't bother me. So like, why is everybody up in arms? Like what? Like, what is broken that bra free, if they did pay that money? And even if I do think it's a bad decision. And even if I do think it's a total waste of money, right? Well, then, okay, I wasn't. I don't mean to, I don't need that person to be my compass. I don't I need them to like it's just okay? Well, that's a reflection of them. And. But I don't I don't I'm not I think I'm expecting too much from those people as what I'm getting it. If you read the comments so many people, I can't believe this tight money that way and I'm going, I know a lot of that they just get normal pastor salaries, but they are they have side businesses or they go out and speak it conferences, and they have other or they have book deals. You know, sign a million dollar book deal and stuff. They didn't get the money from the church. You know they have. The problem with the public shaming conversation is there isn't I still think it's valid conversation. But what is your intention, our you leaking your community you need, you have a responsibility to be making decisions? It's like I, I think about that. And I have nowhere near the like platformer visibility as a lot of these guys in still I feel like just depending on who you're leading in what your community is mature leader. I think it's a wise practice to say, like here's the thing that I wanna do. Here's all the other factors that I'm gonna take into consideration to make this decision. There's something to be said for safety in numbers in his growing societal movement. So it's like I don't wanna throw that out. I don't wanna throw the baby out with the bathwater, but I think that there is so much that is so much healthier when we have the conversation in the context of relationships in so it's been in the public sphere because to your point Cameron of people being, like I can't believe they're using tithing money on that. There's like no. Oh nuance in that. And there's been a lot of truth does get lost when we open it up into the public sphere and isn't fair, I will say this to Reinhard bulky had the dough face off white air masses, I've ever crusade. So actually, I'm wondering if, if this if the, the trend shifting a little bit because I have I I don't see every post they did. But I have one Kim cross my feed few days ago, and it was a picture kind of behind stage of three speakers at the conference. You know, on, on barstools gets a shot of, you know, from behind them on the stage and they were all three wearing white sneakers, and of course they put one to, you know, they, they, they showed the resale value of this Niks. And one of them was wearing like if the resale value is like eighty dollar white, you know, air force ones, and then one of them was, like, you know, one hundred and forty or something like that. And then one of them was like some of the crazy ones like eight hundred or something, but I'm going to three guys on stage who maybe in past months. Would have been wearing high dollars, probably because they knew the eyeballs are on them chose moderately priced normal Nike's. You know what I mean? Jesse's point aren't any ethically. Like at the end of the day, Gucci and Nike, well Nike's more vertically integrated than some other well-known factories anyway. A lot of them are being produced in the same place in the same way. So it's like you kind of go back to this question of what's a bummer to me is that instead of saying, like ooh. How can I be using my purchasing power in a way that I want people in my community to reflect it's just like going to the cheap so that you're safe? So it's like it's a bummer to me, not just I mean, I'm obviously biased because I'm in, I run an ethical fashion brand, but it's like man, you could be using your platform, not just to not get in trouble, but you could be like encouraging people to be buying stuff that actually deeply aligns with your belief in the dignity of all humans. And instead, you're just like gonna buy the eighty dollar shoe because you wanna be safe. It's like seeing I mean Megan Markle has done. In credit? She's really utilized her platform, and has been super intentional with, like almost everything that she's seen wearing publicly is ethically. Sustainably produced in that to me is like such a beautiful example of like I'm gonna thoughtfully intentionally take my platform in my resources in do something with them that I feel good about other people being like. Oh, if I want to be like her. This is the path that I can take and that just seems a lot more thoughtful and intentional than like just buy the cheap thing. So I don't get slandered publicly. I did notice just this morning, a previous thinkers, one, one preacher probably is buying into what you're talking about the it was a farm-to-table a sneaker had be wing chunks in the soles. I avoid this entire is I've been making my own shoes now. And you've been doing this Shane Claiborne where he makes his own pants. Yeah. And I will say this, I have been using bees for my shoes and my feet are horrifically injured right now. But I'm making a point to the world, Jesse your your mistake you didn't take the singers off. So every step, you're everything yourself. All right, number four on the hot list. That's what we're doing now. Know guys were just to number four. For king and country this week, collaborated with echo Smith for their new remix of their big song, God only knows. And then it was remixed by timberland timberland is back other duo has previously won two Grammys and the contemporary Christian category. And they actually renar studio. What? Six months ago, five months performing and they perform the song. God only knows. Well, the remix features legendary hip hop producer Timbaland, if you wanna Google quick. Liz, it's Tim bottle-and with an a he did like Missy Elliott. He he's Justin Timberlake county west, if you wanna Google them I can send you a list now. I appreciate that. And I just wanna say luckily for our listeners, I'm only gonna be able to participate in one of the five hot list items, which means that we won't have to spend twenty minutes on all five. So this is actually my ignorance is a massive gift to this community because I have nothing to add to that. Too hot for you to handle. We continue on probably echo Smith. A couple years ago for their huge hit cool was a cool kids, cool cats. Yeah. Smith, singer, Sydney, Serio ta said in a statement when the idea was brought up to me. I said, I'll sing on that tomorrow. I love that song. So much got only knows is such a special song, and I think we all constantly need the reminder that there's a God who knows and loves us. We aren't doing this alone. There's so much love in meaning in the lyrics honored to be a part of it. Here is a clip of the timberland echo. Smith. Remix of God only knows. Got only knows through it really resonates with me, because no one can relate to what it's like having both feet, horrifically stung by these on every inch in them. So. I know God only knows, man don't own. I know it you think they name the song, God only knows. And then sing it. Or do you think they sing it, and then they're like, well, we gonna call it this, but either way with this is on brand song. Good question. Is it is it really Z? God only knows. He's just set it over and over again. You know, it actually works. Yeah. Got only knows what the next day again, say it again coming to number three in the gym gaffe. Again is in a new indie thriller about a snake handling church short talking Santa comedians won the stars in the upcoming thriller them that follow. Here's the official synopsis, deep and Napa Lucia. Pastor limb. Well, child's presides over an isolated community of serpent handlers. And obscure sect pentecostals, who willingly take up venomous snakes to prove themselves before God as is devoted daughter, Mara prepares for her wedding day, under the watchful eye of hope slaughter, a dangerous secret is unearthed and she's forced to confront the deadly tradition of her father's church. Yeah. Gaskins a devout Catholic and faith, frequently plays a role in his comedy. But he's not known for his dramatic work. We posted this on relevance website couple of days ago. Our headline Jesse. Okay. I that's why won't ask you about. You guys are gonna be this is going to be objective here because the headline that we crafted for this aim we use the picture of Jim Gaffey in handling a snake like a screen shot from the trailer. The headline was Jim gaffe again, is in this creepy thriller about a snake handling Pentecostal church. Yeah. I don't feel like we're throwing shade there. I'm just saying what is the most interesting part of this? Yeah. And, and I again, I was going through Instagram and I followed him gaffe again, and all of a sudden, there's a screen shot of our story and Jim posted it. Did you see that Jesse? Yeah. On twitter. He said, I just love the headline of this article Jim gaffe again is in a creepy thriller snake can't church, shaming. I this, this is your thing. I was stating fact in a funny interesting way, I didn't say anything negative Jim, yet or the movie wanna see it, it looks interesting. Isn't that, like, I don't think anybody is in a movie about a snake handling church in Appalachia that doesn't think that's a little creepy feel like Jim gaffe against motivation is like I just need to paint this community in a new non creepy light. Motivation and the well that he's drawing from. Could be wrong. The, the creepy film releases in August so be on the lookout for. And thanks for follow in Jim. Number two this week on list. Gary Busey is back in the news, he's going to God is gonna play God, an off Broadway musical, Gary Busey as guy. Could go wrong. He's signed on to star in only human a play about Jesus and Lucifer and what happens quote win. An extreme case of creative differences gets the best of them and all hell breaks loose. Early early and the statement, Gary Busey said God is everything love is, and that love becomes the beginning of blessings and miracles playing. This role of God is easy because I'm not acting. I'm just believing you come see it. And you'll believe it to the show, opens New York's theatre say Clemens. And so what are the odds that almost every night, the show just falls into Gary Busey, shouting random members of the audience? I like I remember when he had a reality show, I've liked him on all the weird movies. He's done where he kinda playing this, you know, kind of manic side. I don't know. He sewing, I wanna see in a live staff production. I know part of the appeal of seeing like plays musicals is sort of the anything can happen type of thing. I don't know if I want to be like in the same rule. Scary shocks me. You are the fan. Your fan of I've got to watch this because there we are. We are in the fine razor's edge of, of, of chaos like you like watching Nick woolen to walk a tightrope. Why do we want to watch knowing okay? Watching him because of the potential of catastrophe. That's why it's sick. And I'm surprised that you don't wanna see Gary abuse on a live stage play because of the potential catastrophe. No. Here's the thing came when we saw Gary, when we gave you when we saw Nick willing to walk across that building and Chicago, that was the turning point for me, because, like I like seeing things turn catastrophic in very, very awkward. But when physical danger becomes an element, I get too anxious lying like I love south. That's weird. But with Gary Busey, there's no telling what the man might do you know, like we're talking about live attacks. It wouldn't shock me at all if he some of bees were involved in Gary Busey was involved when, when it comes to, like, physical risk, that's where I have to draw the line these days, it's just. You know, I'm a hundred percent into it. My sister lives in Montana, and she took us to a rodeo. And by the way, I am not like an easy Cryer. I don't like I'm not like super motion, I don't cry commercials. I don't get about pets, and we were at this, you know, rodeo and the guy fell off the bull as happens. And he was supposedly heard, and y'all I burst into tears and took my son in left, because I spiralled so fast I was like his mom, is watching this, in this is the worst moment of her life, and we paid to be here to watch this. And then I started me about, what is the economic reality for the seventeen year old kid from rural Montana, like, is this what he wants for his life would have taken other opportunities if he would have had them. How is our education serving Mr. Joe bull rider, and like, are we actually just capitalizing on his lack of opportunity? Now there's a bunch of rich white people wearing cowboy hats and stadium that are paying to see this kid almost get hurt. And then I cried and I left, so I'm. A really fun person to take things that are supposed to be light hearted and entertaining as what I'm trying to say I heard about that event. Liz in, you know, the most heartbreaking part when that boys riding around on the ground, he somehow attack by bees. They don't know where they came from, but there was a attack along with the entry I it was heartbreaking all the way around. But this just had her own full, Gary Busey moment, just off the wagon, and we were just deep into whatever was happening. Nobody could say word we just had to watch and wait fun. All right, number one this week on the hot list of way. Number one biggest news of the week, DC talk is officially reuniting for a quote land cruise otherwise known as a tour Christian music trio DC talk just wrapped their second. Jesus freak crews, while the band stopped touring and performing together nearly twenty years ago and each members pursued new projects. But this week this week, Michael Tait, who was also in the news, boys. Stop by a radio station for special announcement. He said, I've got news for you. We just finished at east crews yesterday. Pete further of the news boys in I Toby MAC, performed DC talk, K, MAGS news boys by next year. Next year. Dc talk will be doing a land crews will be doing toward eights in the states not announce yet, but it'll be very few, but we'll do them each year, twenty twenty one and probably twenty to DC. Now, we don't know who any of these people are right? No, but I'm thrilled about this being on the hot spot, only because my number one take away from the entire podcast right now is that, you know, you guys know I have a book, that's launching this fall and we're debating whether or not we want to do a tour and I'm like, kind of on the side of. No, but now all of a sudden, I'm like, but we could call it a land cruise. We have to be because that's like, you know, the, the, the dad that comes home from work, you know, right before the family vacation at his just lost his job. He tells the whole family's like we're going on a cruise land crews. And knowing. Bus tickets at new great. Hi. Land. Chris. I realized that kind of the whole DC talk world has been waiting to hear my reaction because some would say, and I agree that I am probably responsible for the resurgence of DC talk, who was talking about DC talk before the relevant podcast beat happened for years ago. Five years ago, zero literally, no one and I'm gonna tell you this. I'm gonna tell you this. And I don't wanna draw to find line. Cats is coming back as a movie of full-fledged movie with Taylor swift in it cats DC talk is reuniting. I'm just saying basically and humbly your everyone, not the most powerful. Yes, I'm excited. Yes. Of course, I will be at one of the shows. Yes. Of course, I will try to get in for free because of all this, and I, I mean, the world has been waiting for this. I love that. They call it a land cruise because for two years, the only way to see them has been on C, and that is absolutely preposterous. And so I will believe it when I see it, but I am ready and you're welcome America. I don't even know if their shelf aware enough to know that, you know, a land cruise isn't a thing, like I hope they land. I hope they really lean into the land cruise thing. I hope that tour bus is shaped like a boat. I hope that every concert is like it's basically it's basically Jimmy Buffett. Jimmy by the tour they, they only drive around and landcruisers. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's they never get the joke. But. Yeah they're just wearing gonna wine shirts up there every night. Yeah. I, I when I heard about this. I immediately started to picture the crowd. Like what demographic? It's exactly who you think. And we cannot wait to be their thirty five to fifty. Not about it. Thirty five. This is the first concert, they've been to in about nine years my kids. Yeah. Bring my kids with me. Oh, they're bringing the kids, the kids will be half. The crowd will be like what is this yet, when they start singing, I wish we'd all been ready? I want them. I want my children to experience weeping, openly and but really viciously people, I don't actually know well enough, but I'm imagining some like genes that have rhinestone dazzled. Page. Talk, you want your hip hop, you're gonna have your hip hop style. When you know, you're gonna have your more like classic rock little bit out there with Kevin max, then you're gonna have your rhinestones entire crowd as wearing something bedazzled. This crowd hasn't been to show since affliction was the trend in the offs. And this crowd is going to dust off the rhinestone jeans, because it's the rock and roll concert shirt, you know. Out. That's the jeans I feel like sneakers and preachers needs to do a post from outside one of the land cruise dates in like Ed hardy shirt, two hundred dollars in parentheses in nineteen ninety nine like. Currently recently sold for a dollar fifty. Yeah. Yes, it's going to be very exciting and yeah, it's it's magical. I hope they do it around Christmas time. So we can hear some of their Christmas songs too. So, you know, approves everyone all these fifty year olds in the crowd singing. I don't want it. I don't want your sex for now. It's the youth group songs don't work when it's. Appropriate at this age. I want your sex for now for Ness. It's a real salt more now it has not it is not a wholesome message. It's a great message for the teeny, the middle schoolers teenagers that they were, you know, playing to then I'm just saying that tore now also for the moms in the bedazzle Jane's, who haven't been out in six years. You know, I am I dazzle jeans on don't make some shins. Maybe not gonna do anything for now. All right. Yeah, yeah. They're really big night. Back in like six weeks. Wine. Spritzers TGI Fridays before we showed up on anything for now. Let's just head home. Let me in breath. But, you know. Gosh. Ten thirty. All right. Four. It's. Up next. Karen, swallow prior joins us. Thanks for listening to today's episode of the Belen podcast. Hey while you're in your little podcast app. Once you look up the other podcast we do every weekday, we're bringing you the what's happening at the intersection of faith in culture with our podcast relevant daily, it's about ten minutes keeps, you know, keeps her finger on the pulse, though. Check it out. Also while you're online, visit the relevance store. We have a podcast fan section at the relevance store. We updated almost every week with mugs shirts hats, and all the swaggie gear you would want from your favorite podcast. Go check it out. Store dot relevant magazine dot com. Daydream busy with Dr Karen, swallow priors writings about faith, and culture have appeared in publications, including the Atlantic box Washington Post also a noted hashtag church, too, and pro-life advocate a lengthy recent profile in the New Yorker said the liberty English professor and author quote stands at the vanguard of a new movement of Christians looking to reclaim their faith from the regressive racist misogynistic policies that have co opted, when her new book, cultural engagement across course in contemporary issues Karen and her co author Joshua Chatra discuss how to develop a biblical viewpoint on modern issues like immigration creation care, war, capital, punishment, and more. We recently spoke with Karen about the book in how to engage today's most pressing social issues. Here is very own Tyler huckabee's conversation with Dr Karen, swallow prior. What if you could give a sort of a brief summary of elevator pitch, I guess, on cultural engagement what it's about what book is really a collection of essays by various contributors from various fields and disciplines on ten different issues that are really pressing in the culture and the church today. And it arose out of my editor Josh Astros. And my experience in teaching students college age students, and in our different fields. He is a school of divinity professor, I teach English, but we talk about a lot of cultural issues. I teach writing cultural engagement class and our students are even within the church are facing a number of perspectives, about different issues and aren't really that well equipped to navigate those issues through. Through a biblical lands. And to even begin to understand, you know, how to sort through the different perspectives from professing Christians. And so this book is kind of a start to help them. Navigate those issues it seems like a looking some of the issues that you that you get into the book things like gender roles immigration creation care. These are things that a lot, and this is a critique that you hear a lot of times from sort of the, the erase punditry. Is that a bios address these issues at all? So why do Christians in the public sphere have such have such strong opinions about them because they can't backup his opinions, with direct bible verse. It sounds like that's something that you try to navigate in this book a little bit. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, anyone who is familiar with Christian worldview thinking, which is, you know, pretty old school now who's been within Christianity knows. Is that what we are doing with, that is taking Crispell that are implicit if not explicit in the bible, and applying them to various issues, which isn't a black and white enterprise? The bible has something to say about all aspects of life, but not necessarily in the terms that issues shape into in our contemporary, culture, and so even though we cover a range of issues in this book, we certainly couldn't cover all of them. So we, it's also our hope that just working through these kinds of issues in the ways that we assist through our editorial material our discussion questions that actually that, that is just a practice and a skill that can be developed applied to whatever issues might bubble up in the next ten or twenty years, because we know issues will always change. But the way that we read the book OPEC's attempt to apply them to the. Issues. Hopefully stays the same. I, I'd be very interested to hear because this has also become a similarly, very divisive topic among Christians in twenty nineteen. Of course, the issue of politics where by by your read, and as the way you address in the miss book, there are this book takes it on. Where do you feel like Christians have sort of gotten the idea of politics wrong in the US in this era? Well, if, if we're defining this era, as sort of the past couple of decades main, maybe late twentieth early twenty percent. That's my own reference. And I can really draw heavily on my own experience, as someone who came of age in kind of during the rise of the religious, right? And the political activism, that took place then and, and it's that crucible that actually formed me as an adult Christian, and, and, and crystallized my faith, so. I mean, I really became an adult and became a committed Christian through political activism, and my, my intertwining of, of my faith in politics as, as part of who I am yet. I have come to see now a few decades later, the limitations of that. And so I think most of us Christians, no matter where we are in the political spectrum, or who voted for in the last presidential election. Or who you plan to vote for? I, I think we're all or most of us, the vast majority are questioning what exactly is the proper relationship between the church in America and political America? And I'm not in favor of complete, you know political pulling away and this, this involvement. And like some of the some other Christian sects, maybe they separatist yet at. The same time I have learned, I think from to tighter marriage between church and state and we're all wrestling with that. And I particularly proud of this section of the book because I think we give a really good range of us all the way from, you know, Robbie Georges, they're a conservative approach to politics to micro wears explanation and apologetic for being a Christian Democrat. So I hope that readers will find this section as comprehensive and engaging as we do and looking sort of the broad overview of, of the book, what do you hope people who read it? What are, what are you hoping that they're left with or these are all like a lot of individual topics or some overlap between them, but they're all also kind of bullet points, this major issues that are on our minds in that are in the news right now. What do you hope that total affect is on somebody who walks away from this book? I think. What most of us are exposed to every day. Is this opinion that opinion and this Christian tribe, and that Christian tribe, and it's we have to sort through it. And we often pick our views based on the tribe, but we don't look at the various perspectives together and in comparison with one another through a biblical framework. And so this book even is limited, as it is and is comprehensive as we try to make it, I think, presents readers with a way of viewing all of these issues together and measuring them against the biblical text. Because there are so many such variety of us, there's no way to just to, to pick one without doing that. And perhaps, by weaving, these things, together, it can help us when we leave a book like this, and go back out into the internet or into our communities. To have a more comprehensive way of the, those disparate variety of us. We see out there like we're we're just inundated with this you, and that you all the time with without any framework or context. And this book helps to provide a context of hopefully, we'll, we'll do more searching for and creating that context on our own that was actor Karen, swallow prior guess what? Everybody today literally today is her thirtieth birthday. Happy birthday Akber stay tuned up next s the cast. Today's episode is brought to you by not forsaken finding freedom sons and daughters of perfect bother by bestselling author, pastor Louis gig Leo in not forsaken, Louis points to God, who is not absent or embitterment, but as vailable and affectionate ready to shower with his approval in love when we take hold of this truth, we are not defined by our pass by the love of a perfect father Christine Caine said, not forsaken is both timely and timeless. It will help heal the wounds fill the deepest longings of generation pick up a copy of not for Sekine at your local bookstore, were it not for sake, book dot com. Listen to hope tala songs love stain. Okay. It is time for our every couple of weeks. We go on Twitter and ask you guys. We give you tune to ask us anything you want to think you guys tweeted us at realm podcast, some questions for the cast and here are few. I will love them to them. Somebody's are some of these are good. And some of these are, are not. Yeah. I was reading through some of them today as people were sending them in. And it was like, I don't think I want to be on. But it's okay, it's better to see how many of these questions, I can logically, make my answer. Eating live bees. So let's fire suit. Beth asks who says, I'm a teacher in the school year is about to end have about a week before I start my summer job. What should I do to have a maximum summer vacation experience in minimal time, I guess this week vacation that she's talking about is pretty applicable to most people a job. So I guess we can not only answer just for bath but for anybody who has a week summer vacation. What is something she could do to have maximum summer vacation experience land one hundred. Nine. Yeah. I would I would agree with all that I would also say pop on those dazzle be jeans. Liz go and see if there is like a, you know, Beatles cover band, down the road, or some sort of journey cover band, and just live it up, you do, and don't everybody. Don't let anybody say you can't have that second Spitzer. This is your week. I would I would encourage you to water that down significantly just for medical reasons. The, the other thing I would say two week is, you know, maybe you don't have time for a cruise, but why he said was a Land Cruiser certainly in the option. Just grab a greyhound bus ticket cruise to nowhere, just a, you know, flying down that American highway what could go wrong. Just went on an old fashioned. My husband and I, celebrate our tenure anniversary spent the first year of our marriage living out of our car. So we thought it'd be fun to celebrate ten years revisiting that. So we went on like just a legit old fashioned road, trip, and man road trips are so fun. Best blaze in music. We'd like a list of a hundred questions that we were asking each other. We like Roach up to Canada. We took a ferry over time. We actually got in a we spent probably in full transparency, the first twelve hours fighting as one done. Said, change any change in mood, temperature the whole thing, you gotta rea- reacclimated. So we're like on a ferry going over Canada are like car is on a huge boat with, like hundreds of other cars in my husband's sitting in the driver's seat, which doesn't even matter because we're like on a ferry. And I'm like screamed at him. I did. Vacuum comment was very quick. He hasn't vacuum in a week that came out of nowhere now I realize. In wall transparency, my husband Atkins, a lot, which codes well for him. And after but put my sparkley jeans because I gotta do my part, you know. Dazzle but for now. Just not. Taylor asked what's weird is food. You've ever tried and liked Jesse. Oh, well, this is interesting. I really gotta think about it. There's nothing that leading live. He's boom. Next question. Reggie is serial considered a soup, we've answered that one. Reggie Reggie also asked our hotdogs a sandwich. I mean, I've found is the bait and I mean, I think I thought about this from every angle, you can possibly not in spirit, but, you know, by affect yes, they are sandwiches. Liz, what is your take on the hot dog? Having the main component be tubular disqualifies it as one hundred percent at sits in its own category club. Roles. No, no tubular majority components that comprise over ninety percent of said meal to qualifies sandwich. What about slice tubular things like like you would take like, Jesse said salami slices or I mean that that's the tube. I wanna watch meet starts in to form was, yeah. One hundred percent agree with that. Yeah. But not existing form. We're really splitting hairs or should I say, cutting out dogs here? Yeah. All right. Let's see Laura asks, if you could do one thing without any negative consequences. What would it be eat life? These hundred percent. Eat pizza every day for the rest of my life. Yeah. I would I would. Yeah. Literally just whatever I want. And that would be my answer. That'd be. Acing except big UT sneakers, but there are consequences to our actions. So we moved to. To throw in one thing. Murder murder. There is a movie that I watched it's like a stupid scary horror film. But the whole premise of it was like there's one night, where nothing is legal and you can do anything without repercussions movie. I Jim gaffe. Right. These pentecostals. It really did get me noodling because I feel like your perspective on what happens that night shows a lot about what you believe about humanity. And like the human condition of what people would do if they didn't have consequences. It's the purge. Boom that everybody just wanted to murder each other. But what if we what if that happened in where we really saw like underneath at all we all just like I would give away my entire fortune, because I could do that. And there wouldn't be a consequence for me. I'm not gonna lie list. That sounds like a super boring movie. Very exciting if they're not murdering getting boring. I mean what are we? Just trying to wrestle alligators or something like who cares? You get a murder people Matthew ass. This is interesting. I've been I've been plagued with making a thirteen hour road trip. Playlist for my very reserved family's vacation to Florida. What should be the first thing on my plate us to really? Get started on the right track caveat, very reserved family. He needs to send a message loud and clear to that family that I don't wonder sex for now why that is the most obvious choice. Number one. Then it's gotta be a pretty everybody likes. Huey Lewis and the news. And that's just fact. And now when he says, really reserved I'm thinking they don't like secular music he. But everybody likes you Louis. That's what's interesting now through all lines. He's the number one artist ever my. Stone. Listen to music. And they, they would go to a James Taylor concert today. He's pretty. Yeah. Let's their justification. I think game sailor down. I think this is my son every night. I think the plane crash music. I think the non secular music ban came in eighties. And so, I think in the us up to that point, grandfathered in, like yeah. We, we love James Taylor. I know because I sing it to my two year old son. There's a line, and sweet baby James that says dreaming about women and glasses of beer, by the way. Now, my two year old things in public so you can. Cute. He actually got paid a dollar in the store the other day because he just started belting down someone handed him in money. You have a good choice. Do I? I'm not gonna pay any bills with it. We're going to say we're just. We're just curious what it's like having him here, these songs, and then some days going to hear James Taylor and be like what on earth? These to the same song. All right. Well, there's a lot more questions. We'll try to get to an another castings for sitting, and that is your ask the cast segment. Hey, many things to Karen swallowed prior for joining us. Her book, cultural engagement is available for preorder now. Go check it out. Also, thanks to squarespace for making the episode possible. You can go to squarespace dot com slash relevant for free trial. And when you're ready launch your website, use the offer code wait for it. Relevant to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain while not. No. We were wrap things up. Hey, thanks for hanging out with the Salas. It's always so much fun. Having you always a pleasure. Gentlemen. Thank you, you, you added a lot to the preachers of sneakers conversation. I'm still thinking about some of the things you said, I appreciate it in really. Piece you a kind of model the whole thing, so well done. I did. I did Google who he was. And. Google. Gary busey. Promise you one thing I will continue to impress surprise you with my lack of pop culture knowledge, and I will never be unrelevant podcast without my smartphone. In my hand in order to these things. A lot of people don't realize this. But when you type Gary Busey Google message comes guess. Are you? Sure, sorry. Actually have to do. What you're getting into here. Yeah. All right. Well, guarant- Strang, Jesse Kerry, medi full for now working billion. All right. We will see you next week have a great weekend. Everyone. Did the thinking for listening to the relevant podcast. If you like what you heard be sure to leave us a review on I teams check out other shows from the relevant podcast network in the podcast section at relevant magazine dot com. And while you're there, bras exclusive podcast merchandise at our online store, make sure to subscribe to relevant magazine. Info is available at relevant magazine dot com Ford slash subscribe. I just want to thank everyone for having me on suckers. Relevant podcast network.

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#754 God Save the Queens: Women in Hip-Hop, Opinions on Jason Isbell & Chicano Batman, Hamilton Bohannon

Sound Opinions

55:30 min | 7 months ago

#754 God Save the Queens: Women in Hip-Hop, Opinions on Jason Isbell & Chicano Batman, Hamilton Bohannon

"You're listening to sound opinions and later in the show. We talk women in Hip hop but first we've got some new music to review. But what if somebody say what about what about not my own memories gather round? The strong Tila finally had to fight it. That is a little bit of. What have I done to help? The opening track on the sixth full length studio album by Jason is bull reunions. Greg I think many of our listeners and certainly the two of us I became aware of Jason Isbell as a member of the Southern Rock. Outfit drive by truckers. He was with that group for six years. Before splitting to pursue a solo career in two thousand seven started out kind of under the radar and increasingly broke through in a big way with an unconventional country. Sound that continued to grow an audience. A two thousand seventeen. The Nashville sound probably reached more people than he has at any point. Even though it was not traditionally Nashville Sound. We had on the show Giving a live performance and interview in episode number six forty seven. And now there's a lot of anticipation for is Israel's new recording. What is he going to give people with the spotlight firmly on him once again? He is recording with his band. The four hundred unit which Among others includes his wife. Amanda who we also are big fans of. Let's play a track from reunions. The new Jason is allowed. And we'll come back and give our reviews. This is the song be afraid on sound. Depends feel the star snap man he just to Ta Thinking Kid Wings Battle. Thank you even see you? You still looks to you. Do our delicate glad to to be too city louisette. We've been tested fail to see the good old for these screen which you only say no thank you pass out of. Your Voice wins. Plastics speakers in sky began choice to see that is be afraid from the new. Jason is bull and the four hundred unit album. Reunions Jim. You did mention the four hundred unit giving them co billing with Israel. I think that's quite intentional on Mr Rose bowls part He has been co billing his records with the band. You know I think. He's lining up to Be Part of that Pantheon springsteen and the East street band the Tom Petty's and the heartbreakers kind of lineage. Not just a singer songwriter. But a broader way of defining his sound. You still working from that country folk pallet. I think a lot of people still view him sort of like a country singer songwriter. But the band really does widen the spectrum east playing with with the broadest Palette yet on any of his records. He's got all the way from that Acoustic Song Dream Cycle in James. Some to you know something like their Reno rocker be afraid that we just played. It's a pretty wide range of instrumentation and also approaches to the the arrangements. You know once again a personal album. This guy lives in Nashville but he is not part of that Nashville Assembly line for country music. He is writing these songs from an adult perspective. About where he is in his life Now a family man. He's not pretending to be some cowboy out on the farm. You know with the Cowboy Hat. You know Drinking Beers with the Frat boys at the at the Honky Tonk on Friday nights. He's talking about what his life is like. Now and when he was reflecting on where he was and where he's going he talks a lot about this album being populated with ghosts ghosts from his past. Go of what was you hear? Very you know straightforward in that song. It gets easier about his days as a drunk. You know flat out. Admitting that he had a real alcohol problem That song talks about the struggles that he continues to have with remaining sober ghost. You can't get rid of it. It gets easier. He sang but it never gets easy. Exactly and then I like how he finishes the record. I think these songs are very interconnected. The ten songs on this record looking at the future looking ahead to the day that his daughter will get married and you know talking about the struggle that he will have with that issue so I to me one of his most personal albums and yet also one of his bowl in terms of the range of sounds here. What do you think Jim? I think Is Bowl is looking ahead to the days when he's playing arenas and not just theaters. I don't know if he'd be happy with that Greg. I I don't know if you'd be happy with it either but the sound seems like it's ready to fill that space. You know what I mean this sound you know you mentioned springsteen and Patty but I think the the obvious comparison is Neil young and crazy horse as an MVP on this record. Sailor of Van. Who PLAYS GUITAR ALONG WITH IS BILL? You know there are some real crazy horse. Rip Roaring Guitar Work ups in some of these songs. That are just killer. Running with our eyes closed is another great one. Be Afraid has a lot of that fire. But here is that other side remember. Rust never sleeps the live out my favorite of the crazy horse. Neil young records is half acoustic and you know he does kind of Fake us out by starting quietly this record. Will you read me would you? What I said. You Stone Dylan or encouraged on you. It's an introspective record. I think it's a record that flows with empathy but at the same time. He has gotten a lot of golf for being outspoken in his empathy and his embrace of diversity and in you know I don't WanNa use the word liberal okay. But he's a man who cares about a lot of and it doesn't have a color boundary and it doesn't have a class boundary and he's been expressing that and he's been getting a fair amount of kickback from the traditional Nashville establishment. I mean hey. This record was recorded in our studio which has classic Nashville Nashville gets right. But his message is one about understanding patience and empathy and also being fearless about speaking out even if it runs against the grain e sinks. Tell the truth the enough you'll find it rhymes with everything. If the words add up to nothing then you're making a choice to sing cover when you need a battle cry we all need a battlecry and reunions is a great battle. Cry For this year olds only way the shoe. A track called color my life from the new Chicano Batman record invisible people chicano Batman a band. We have talked about on the show. Previously a Quartet from East Los Angeles three of the mets heritage a fourth of Colombian heritage have been around for more than a decade. This is their fourth studio album. They released some. Ap's and singles in between there have become an attraction on the on the festival circuit. They have played coachella. They played bummer. Shoot they toured with Jack White a few years ago so they have fill the bill on a number of big festivals as well as Theaters they are working with a high level production team here. Leon Michael's who's known for his work with Sharon Jones. People of that ILK is producer. But I thought a key addition for them on this record is Sean Everett as a mixer. Guy who's worked with ALABAMA SHAKES WAR ON DRUGS? Casey Musk graves. Julian Casablancas quite a resume and Bringing a level of detail to the production that I think is kind of a new area for this band. Let's play track from invisible people before we review it. Polly metronomic harmony from Chicano Batman. Sound Opinions Skate. Two thousand one day makes sky Talk Best Poly Metronomic harmony from Chicano Batman. The album is called invisible people. Great you've turned me on to this group originally and I am a big fan of the previous records Mix of Tropicalia classic Sixties Sunshine West Coast Psychedelia Soul Mexican roots. Music's all of that is here on invisible people and and I think they have taken a turn also toward more electron ick pop sound a mainstream electronic pops out But the more I listened to it the more I realized that it was both of a piece with what I loved about the group before and breaking new ground and being rather fearless in doing so. I think it's bringing in an element of air in the fringe electron group and also Clive Tanaka way underground artist. We've loved cassette only artist in that. It's got that kind of bubbly sunshiny pop you know. This is like drinking a Carbonated fizzy drink out in the sun under an umbrella. I say on the like Sixtieth Day in a row of rain and grey and cold in Chicago and man. I just need a little bit of that. Fizzy effervescence sunshine the Jocano Batman is delivering in. Spades this is a very addictive and uplifting album. No matter how low you may be feeling very true Jim. I think that this record is the record. The TAME IMPALA wanted to make a few months ago but couldn't quite get their seriously. I was it was I was thinking. This is a cool. Good one a cool record. Whereas the Tame Impala record fell very fussed over and almost over-produced and you know so full of ideas that it didn't really have any songs this record fulfills. The potential of that record had with its sort of combination as as you said of straight ahead pop with the keyboards but also that. Psychedelic acidy. Experimental vibe when you think about a song like the way on this record which just blew me away. It's one of those like an eastern feeling. The Bells. Come in at the end and kind of trippy lyrics. I thought what a bold experimental track in the middle of what is essentially a pop record. You know they are once again. Combining sort of these melting pot sounds the pulling music from all over the planet blending genres fearlessly and combining the melting pot sounds with melting pot. Themes you know. They are big on the whole notion of being an outsider in the country. You live in the title track invisible. People were tired of living in the dark. It's like it's time for us to come out in the open and acknowledged that we're all different and that's cool. The music is expressing that the lyrics are expressing that. I think this is a beautiful record and the high point of their career so far our right to enthusiastic all thumbs up before Chicano Batman. Now we want to hear from you. What do you think of the new music from Jason Isbell or Chicano Batman? Call eight eight eight eight five nine eighteen hundred and leave us a message with your thoughts and why or join the conversation on facebook or twitter coming up our discussion with author. Cathy EON DAILY ABOUT WOMEN IN HIP. Hop? That's in a minute on sound opinions from wbz Chicago and PR X. Kick it the Rama. This week is with that. Don't bic you break you take you smell is Thompson Rob. Can you relate to welcome back to sound opinions? I'm Jim dear goddess. My PARTNER IS GREG. Cote can't see him but he's on the other end of this remote line and this week we are talking about women in Hip Hop Ladies First Greg. While the history of hip hop has been widely documented the pioneering women rappers are often overlooked in the early days of this art. Form The path to success was more often challenging for women the music industry when they gave these women any attention at all often tried to pigeonhole them as just one thing refusing to acknowledge the multitudes these artists contained today we're going to discuss some of those legendary female emcees and how things have and haven't changed for women in hip hop overtime. Our guest is Kathy. Eon belly acclaimed music journalist and author of the book. God Save the Queen's the essential history of women in hip hop Kathy welcomes on opinions. Thank you thanks for having me so you have been a journalist. A radio person behind the scenes present almost at the birth of hip hop and still following it avidly today before we get into some of the stories. Why why have we not had a great history that gives the ladies there? Do I think it's because hip hop overall struggle from day one as a viable art form especially since it was coming off the heels of disco and the assumption was that it was going to be just like another flash in the pan kind of sub-genre of something greater so of course with any large movement trying to get it's like well deserved recognition? Women always end up suffering that alone by any societal standards right. I think once it became this huge massive billion dollar global beast and now surpassing rock music as as the dominant genre you turn around and you see forty plus years where women were never given their respect in an industry now where we have our Nikki massages and making the stallions and Cardi B.'s. You know we should turn back around and just remind everyone just how women got here in hip hop. It just seems like so many of these. Great women were ignored right from the beginning. Dj Cool her getting the spotlight. But his sister Cindy Campbell is making that music happen. Yeah it was. I opened my book with the discussion. You know we we talk about just like the birth date of hip hop and we credited to this infamous party that digital ERC through in his apartment complex in the REC room on on sedgwick avenue in the South Bronx started out with the Games back. Hop Hang. Stop Feet apartment. They would break. Come Bongo Rock. But it's actually his sister's idea. She wanted her this party. Where charge the door? Pay For refreshments and things like that and the money would go towards her buying her back to school wardrobe ends. She asked her brother to DJ. And that's really how it happened. And he became a legend that night. And I think just know that. I'm that birthdate of HIP HOP. It was a woman's idea to even throw the party to begin with and we never really talk about that. I mean it's something it's a story to tell what about early rap groups like the seques are not. I'm better without these teenagers. In his early rap group that they too are are are somewhat written out of the hip hop history books even though they were a pioneer in group. How do you explain it? I mean was it. Just a case of men are running. This industry. Men are writing about it. Men are documenting it therefore they are writing out the women in the history books. Well there was a lot happening during that chunk of time. That involve the pioneers a little more little less a decade and when you're talking about groups like the sequence like they were one of the first to cut a record. I think what was happening. Was you're going through the stages of music in general and its delivery right and hip hop was like a step behind so it was the music was being performed but then it wasn't being recorded records weren't being cut and then when the records were cut they weren't reaching radio so you're talking about kind of is like truncated version of the entire history of music right. The entire is recorded musical. Say groups like the sequence. Were able to cut a record but you have New York based group Mercedes ladies. Who weren't able to do that right? And you have the funky four plus one with you know the legendary Shaw Rock. They were able to release music and they got on Saturday. Night live but they weren't allowed to perform during the time period that the non hip hop acts got to perform. They had a performance. Credits were rolling right. So there's like these little teeny tiny milestones that were being reached but it. All kinds of culminated in nineteen eighty. Four with Roxanne Sean Hayes. Roxanne's revenge becoming such a huge radio hit. I don't know a cold. Ns Do these guys and you no lose to let me tell you n explains them author you that marked a turning point. I think for women specifically because what hip hop was struggling with prior to all of that. When you're talking about the pioneers came prior to Shanti. You're talking about struggle to still again be recognized as a viable form with artists not to mention they're performing at jams and clubs but they're not really getting paid and they're like thirteen fourteen years old. Delage the rucks Sean. Essentially the way the story goes the late Mr Magic alongside Marley. Marl and flights high who later started cultural and records these. These three guys were kind of traveling along the New York City Radio Circuit because they had the show called rap attack and it was one of the only radio shows Rica truly break records put hip hop on the radio and of course it was nonprofit. The infrastructure is not going to put money into hip hop. So they were doing this. Nonprofit radio you describe. Ucf Oh had a single that they were trying to push. That was a little more arm. Be leaning and the B. Side was a song called Roxanne Roxanne de girl they call. Roxanne like me no rap mister magic heard it and said that's your head that's the one that I wanNA play. The other one is not you know. That's not the one I'm like. I don't know we're trying to get here trying to get there so it Mr Magic does you know never wants to back down. He plays Roxanne Roxanne and it blows up so to thank him. They were going to allow them to have this show where they would charge admission and ucf owed perform and by the time to earn them. Some money obviously again on profit by the time this happened. I believe it was Kissifim. Had already picked up the record and they're making money now they don't need them so they basically cancelled a show and wor towards the holidays so fly time Marley Marl and Mr Magic have no money now to buy Christmas gifts because they thought that they were gonNA actually get them so they're annoyed and they're in the queen's bridge projects outside kind of complaining about this and while they're complaining about this a little girl embraces named Sean Tae having sadier laundry comes over. And here's them talking and she had been known as like this neighborhood battle. Rapper you know involved in the little project battles and all this other stuff and she said well I can do some. And she was a Heckuva rapper. She was. She was a heck of a rapper. So they're like wait a minute okay. Let's let's let's do something you know. And where shot as it or laundry was actually located in very close proximity like the same building as we're Marley Marl recorded. So what shanty did was she. Assumed the role of Roxanne Roxanne Roxanne. They're kind of you know it's it's a cat calling record at its best. It's the equivalent of literally walking down the street in New York City. And and you know a guy going SPS and you're not saying anything in any hurls an insult at you that's basically what the songs so shawn's hey assumes the role of Roxanne who then turns around is like okay. So here's the laundry list of why I'm Never GonNa let me tell you something about the doctor to he ain't really cute. I don't know how to operate. He came up to me with salt. Knows what the when Bats essentially proxy prevent. It's just a complete district and Mr Magic. Put It on rap attack and it went insane. Everyone wanted and Shanti starts to grow in prominence. And that's when you realize just where the sexism started because you know there was little. I don't WanNa call it fun sexism but there was little tricks and jokes that were happening prior to that. I speak with a baby from the Mercedes. Ladies guys sometimes unplugging equipment when they're supposed to be performing and all sorts of like antics like that but this is a situation where money was actually on the table. Because now you're promoting this record and you're taking it on tour and you're earning money so as soon as that happened. Chantal became a threat. And we see that in the infamous battle between her and busy bee. We're Kurtis blow. Gave her a four in her score and she should have actually won and that That infamous battle kind of dictates who is at the top at the time and from that point you just see the deliberate measures to kind of place. Women off to the side so that men could still thrive and and I speak with Kurtis blow about his four rating in my book. And you know his kind of argument was that you know Sean Taylor was profane and you know you know. She was part of the same crew as he was and she was kind of dissing him on a record to and and all these other things but we see that happen all the time with guys think yeah. It was just one of those one of many situations where you're like. Oh yeah right you know there. There are a couple of of sad stories in the book and I think at the end of Or the premature end of Roxanne's career and another one you know decades later is Lauren Hill. Obviously really are just spending man. It seems like there. Is this super hard glass ceiling where you can get to a certain point and then you disappear you know. I mean notoriously hip pop careers are often very short much shorter. I mean Geez we have seventy five year old rolling stones right for many even but for women they're even shorter I think in in Lauryn Hill's case. I think what the industry wanted from her was something far more stringent than any other hip hop artists male or female because she was able to penetrate the mainstream away where she was so beloved and she was still rapping but also singing and doing very well and the fact that she wasn't producing at the capacity that they wanted it was kind of like this right off because no one paid attention to what was going on her personal life and allowing her to be human. I mean we you know miseducation Lauren. Hill came out with Lauren. Hill was twenty three years old. I know what I was doing when I was twenty three. She's a baby. She's yes yeah. She had her baby at twenty two and then by miseducation she was pregnant with her second child and she had gone through all of his heart ache and heartbreak. And and also when you're pregnant your voice changes so the album is done in a completely different tone than her actual singing voice. Yeah so then. You put this album on tour. And she stretching her vocal cords to like a rubber band and she has gone vocal rest in between her dates. Because she she's a freighter. She's GonNa sing her voice out and then what happens. Oh Lauren is emotionally damaged. Lauren can't sing like she used to. All of these things and then not to mention. You have a creative team. Who's turning around and trying to take all the credit for what she did right so the fear of moving forward is obviously there and if your previous work is paying your bills of course you don't want to release new material so to have the reputation now and then on top of all that talking about how she's for shows it's always this constant a ha- like waiting for something to point out as opposed to acknowledging the fact that artists are human. Just like us but I think it's just a a greater pressure placed upon black women in music. I mean we look at Billy holiday. We look at you know Whitney Houston. The the pressures that are placed upon black female artists is just insane to me. When we return we talk about the two archetypes people put female rappers into and how only a handful of artists were able to transcend. That's intimate unsound opinions from. Wbz CHICAGO PR. What's the matter with your life? Why you got a mess with sweat in what I do. 'cause I'm GONNA be just by to be on a weekend give sean welcome back down opinions. I'm Jim dear goddess. My partner is Gregg cut and this week we are talking about the history of women in hip hop our guest is Kathy Lee author of the book. God Save the Queen's earlier in the conversation we talked about pioneering artists in the nineteen eighties. Like Roxanne. Sean Tae who is often forgotten moving into the nineties and two thousands capi outlines to stereotypes often used to describe women in hip hop the sex kittens and the Nubian goddesses. I asked if artists were able to break out of those boxes now and the titles themselves not necessarily what they represent was brought to me by an artist in the book rod data. And you know. She told me that that's like what they would call the girls who talked about sex for the sex kittens and she and Lauren and Lady Bug Mecca from diggle planets identified as the Nubian goddesses. So it was like this idea that if you were sex positive or wrapped about sexuality or or war certain clothing you know you were leaning. Towards the the sex kitten category while if you were covered up and were lyrics striven and you know maybe where your hair? Naturally you're new being goddess and at the heart of that debate in a really just lies. You're either acting too feminine or not feminine at all. That's really what it is. It's just two sides of the spectrum that are demanded of women. Like pick your side it's men defining what women can be absolutely because I think in the world of hip hop either there listening with their eyes or their listening with their ears and if they're listening to their eyes they want something to look at. And I think that's where we get this weird dichotomy like I credit Nicki Manashe for being the one who who possessed both essentially because she was probably the first possess both and in a way that was marketable and mainstream forward for the boy that the goal of the town a fever the coolest crappy blades enough that text on deck like you crave enough immediate bail. He might get a about by the right kind of he he though he always couch. Because Lauren Hill was able to do it. But she still had miss wholesome reputation. I think you know only a couple of times. Did people try to check Lauren? Remember she did a details magazine. Cover wishes painted in golden wearing these like short shorts. And a blacktop. And everyone's like Oh like now you're selling out and it's like no not necessarily. She just loves her body and wants side of her but she was also dismissed like so many great rappers as a backpacker. Granola eater right. There was that element to the miseducation of Lauryn Hill where the standards different though in hip hop than they were in any other musical culture or entertainment culture for that matter. It seems like women are being judged everywhere all the time throughout society. Do you feel it was different hip hop. I think it was especially different in hip hop between the years of nineteen ninety six and nineteen ninety eight because after the back to back deaths of two poxy core in the notorious B I g mainstream music was afraid of hip hop so fine. It was scary so in order to figure out what to do with it. As a whole I think you know everyone kind of points towards you know Sean puffy combs as diminishing the street aesthetic of hip hop at its core by introducing. This what they call a shiny suit era because he created these big cinematic songs that were super poppy. What he was doing was he was actually bumping hip hop into its next tax bracket by making it more Mainstream appealing and saying no. It's not scary even though my best friend was shot and killed. It's not scary. I promise like where we're out here entertaining and we're out here making music and for women not knowing where to place women in general prior to that going into this next iteration of hip hop. They don't know what to do with women after that either so what started to happen was prior to be passing. You know he discovered little Kim and she was like she was the first lady you know and he created this little Kim quote unquote character. She later after he passed found. Her own character found her own personality and found her own lyrics and became completely iconic absolutely think Bloomberg Com about late totally did not out the girls face like a Vat. You could tell us these but tonight felt but when when big was still alive and he was kind of mentoring. Kim Orrin Jay Z. Was Mentoring Foxy Brown. There was this guy who was over there. Helping you write your lyrics telling you what to wear. You know whispering in your ear about everything right and I mean we can. We can even say. Why cleft did the same for Lauryn Hill in a different way? Of course but during that time period you had a man teaching you the ropes of an industry. They themselves didn't even understand. So it leads to a lot of confusion. And then when you reach into nineteen ninety nine wants napster happens and the music industry goes on complete high alert and people start to suffer with there are because they're afraid of music piracy and they don't know what to do and of course hip hop is already confusing at its best at this point. The casualties become women alternately. Because now it's like all right. I don't even know what to do with Jay Z. So do you really think I'm going to figure out what to do? With his artists. A mill you becomes. It becomes this whole thing where women just get put on the shelves and then on top of all that you have the Kim and Foxy era which made it the norm to hop on a stage in designer outfits and major makeup hair nails and have these elaborate shows where you're costing more money than a guy in a sweat suit on his on stage so then you're like a financial burden I'd on top of all of that Cathy You know women are encouraged not to support one another but to have these battles and continue to tear each other down of course because they didn't want to fund two different women putting out albums so let's knock one out and the way will do it is we'll do like it's like some sort of oil wrestling match and you know that that's the other thing. The goal was it was like the Hunger Games. The idea was to make it more entertaining to male onlookers but then also to figure out who would last out of the two and. I think that's why we see a decade after that Nicki Menaj holding down the spot for ten consecutive years because she presents both sides of the sex Kit Nubian Goddess Balance and did so in a way that me. The music industry a lot of money but they were so. That's like introduce someone else you but so did other women you given good chunk love to Missy Elliott and how can one notch right? Everybody's Mississippi I'm the Hottest Ryan. Y'All can stop me now. This unless woman rights missy was in a class by herself. I remember like I said in my book. Missy was in a spaceship missy. Missy ELLIOTT is the Andy Warhol of hip hop. She's like a bus kiat she's what Missy. Elliott does lyrically fashion wise video wise. You can't really place her Miss Missy. Also wouldn't you know be wearing a boost? Ea and fishnet stockings on on a stage with a wig to her waist. So you can't new missy. Elliott is neither a Nubian goddess nor sex can put the plastic bag suit Wisconsin sexy. But that's me Yes yes but But even so that's another the symbolism of wearing that not showing her body at all right. I mean that's why that's why missy was missy missy is missy and I'm just so glad that she's finally getting the recognition she deserves. You know for her her genius across the board has to face check in and make you do what route your career you have dealt with the metoo issues. You have seen the best and the worst of the music industry. There's one riff in the book that stood out to me because it's something that that That I've always wrestled with as it mail critic who does love hip hop and loves all music You know the B word. I don't WanNa hear it. You know and I know we can have characters saying it and someone is portraying something and you kind of chart the different phases in hip hop and now women are trying to reclaim it as where I think you came up but I got the sense that it also makes you uneasy. Why am I here in this in what otherwise? I'm GONNA enjoy well. You Know Mega stallion released a song called the IT. Right read the B. B. C. Page coming up in any way from the baby sweet brighten up the Beep beep is her owning the word because she says that you're going to call me that anyway and she's the one that I think that's exactly. Megan does the best job. I feel right now in twenty twenty of discussing exactly but she also spells the word I think. And that's where that's the thing that I think is you know. She spells out the B word. And it's the same uneasiness where it's an uncomfortable word but I'm just going to own it. If you'RE GONNA call me at anyway as a woman you could call yourself that but if you know someone else calls you that then you know instruction work. I mean calling your framing it as a act of defiance and wrap is defiant so I find that are at the same time you know. I've heard rappers on panels. I've heard artists on panels. Say Hey it's just words and well words hurt you know words matter. This is all about words. It seems a little disingenuous to minimize the impact. That word has and then you know they're not supposed to be role models right necessarily but Nonetheless there are young women listening to it and What what kind of message do they take out of it? You know when they hear a woman that they look up to using that word. It's a very you know we could argue about this for days. Obviously is a game changing. Do you see that there is some progress being made in the way women in hip-hop are being perceived as artists. My answer is I don't now because we still have to see what happens in the next five years because right now we're witnessing Cardi B. Rose to prominence in two thousand eighteen and she was probably the first artist to break through since Nicki Menaj kind of successfully locked down that 10-year-reign so I don't know yet because right now we're very much enmeshed in this whole discussion of women right the discussion and it's constantly just being you know dissected from all angles and and all these things and yes. I'm reading books out of that discussion but we have to see what happens a couple years from now when female artists are hopefully just regarded as artists We're talking to Cathy Eon daily. Who's a book God? Save the Queen Z. Essential History of women in hip hop is an essential book Kathy thanks for coming on the show. Thanks for having me. That wraps up our conversation about women in hip hop of course we didn't have time to go over all of our favorite emcees. So now we want to hear from you. Do you have a favorite female rapper from the past or the present call eight eight eight eight five nine hundred and leave us a message or join the conversation on facebook for twitter as often as possible here on sound opinions we take a trip to the desert island as opposed to our deserted. Stay at home Shelters right now Greg you're going to pay tribute to an artist. We both admire. Yes indeed Jim Hamilton. Bohannon died April. Twenty fourth at the age of seventy eight one of many tragic losses in the music world over the last few months. Bohannon may not be a household name to Many of you but I think if you're around in the seventies and into funk you couldn't escape Bohannon dance. His music was particularly geared toward the dance clubs and he was a huge factor in disco the rise of disco and later on a huge influence on the emergence of House and Techno Modest presence. On the pop charts. He did have a a number nine. Hit with let's start the dance on the R&B Charts As I said most of his fame was accrued from those club hits that he had the songs that were hits when the DJ's were playing for dance crowd You know I think he's one connection to the mainstream world outside of funk and dance scene was a Tom Tom. Club giving him a shout-out on genius of love alongside James Brown and smokey Robinson you know they had a Bohannon right up there you know with the great in terms of his influence on that style of music and I can't disagree with them and and later on the hip hop generation You Know Doug Bohannon too. I mean snoop Dogg and dig of planets and Jay Z. they were all sampling his music because it was so darned danceable most of his songs. Had you know the lyrics are almost like a throwaway? They were very sparse. They were more like vamps. The song structures were very loose and open but at the same time there was structure there and it became sort of a transient groove oriented type of sound. Sometimes the beats were more emphatic. The sewing I'm GonNa play illustrates Mahan and skill as is not only a a songwriter and arranger and and and drummer but his variety of tempos. He wasn't just for on the floor. He was playing kind of more subtle grooves on occasion and a great example of that is The song I'm GonNa play next South African man from nineteen seventy four and the late. Bohannon unsound opinions spoke Sounds Avenue York Food Code End Session from only South African manned by Hamilton. Hanan attributed Him Dead at the age of seventy nicely done grade you can hear the connections between that and Giorgio Moroder say on the electronic discount what we have on the show next week next week. Jim We are going to Paris to Rome to Georgia all in our minds because we can't go anywhere but we are going to take some virtual -cations with the songs choose. I can't wait Greg. You can download the sound opinions podcast. Wherever you get such things. You can join us on facebook or twitter as always the show is produced by Brendan Benazech Alex Clayborn and Andrew Gale and we have to bid a fond farewell to. Ion contraire us who is going to our sister station vocal. Where she came from originally it was such a treat having her for so long. We wish you all the best. And we're going to still keep grooving to her reclaim sole uh on everyone's a critic So now it's time I've called and our buddy each time I fall. They always tell me that you are not at home. Eight gentlemen My Name is real and I'm calling from Kent Ohio and when I heard you're going to do a special on Humil- emcees I got all Giddy. Because I got a couple I wanNA share with you versus a sleeper. It's sweet tea from about nineteen eighty eight single is on the Momma. This means you know health. My joy other is by my favorite female. Rapper MC light and it's the entire album from the mid ninety two hers call. I WANNA be happy the daddies to me more. What you got to me now Linden Holloway. That it rains remorse well-known records by. It's a solid record and dog again. Just Intelligence Lear smooth beats and heartbeat too. So check those guys and keep doing what you're doing guys got a great show. Thanks hey from New York City. Thanks for keeping up the show this but I did just have to say about server you of the. Us BY STROKES. My opinion is that you don't get that angles was at least as good as it really is. How COMING INTERVIEWING STROKES RECORD? Because they changed a lot over the years they kind of tried to keep the momentum going that first album with intermittent success and then it just changed a lot. I just think that go back also tried to kind of accept it for what it is and see how really and then again to the new record central. I think it's the best of angle and you know. They really really brought something great out. Thanks so much guys. Talk to you later. What'S UP JIM and Greg? This is Jeffrey Collins from quarantine in Atlanta Georgia. I enjoyed your recent episode on very treasures of band. I recommend you check out is fearing from Oakland California. There new album called shadow came out a couple of weeks ago. One of my favorite releases this year so far. So that's my recommendation Go check it out. Hi Greg and Jim Connor calling from Kansas I just wanted to offer a log for an excellent band from Chicago actually. You've probably heard of them but I haven't new MKX came out a few months ago. The ban rap. Thank you a fantastic power popping with all country in Indie folk textures while and Yeah just kind of tone is last few years so look forward to more good stuff from them. Thanks guys like no more messages to give us your opinions. Unsound Opinions Colour Hotline Eight. Eight eight eight five nine eighteen hundred. We'll be back next week with more sound opinions produced by wbz Chicago and distributed by PR.

Hip hop Roxanne Roxanne Roxanne Greg Chicago Jim Roxanne Sean Hayes Nashville New York City Jason Isbell Lauren Hill facebook Kathy Lee twitter Marley Marl Lauryn Hill Mercedes Pantheon springsteen Doug Bohannon Israel
The crisis of predatory publishers sucking the blood of science

Science Friction

31:55 min | 1 year ago

The crisis of predatory publishers sucking the blood of science

"This is an ABC podcast. This is science fiction. Hey, I'm the Tesha Mitchell. Welcome. This week the pursuit of a predator as a reporter, you get all kinds of of little suggestions tips complaints. And you know, you can't deal with them. All this one. Intrigued me I had started to hear about similar complaints, and sort of once you hear enough of them the signal adds up. And you think oh, well, maybe there's a story here. What was I seeing what what the clues that that made you smell? A rash was a researcher myself. I was a faculty librarian at my university. And I did a research. Probably starting. Five six years ago. I was always looking for publishing opportunities. I started getting letters, and I started to receive these emails sort of saying extremely nice things to me that basically said call for paper journal editors wanting me to submit my manuscript to their journal and they had lots of grammatical errors. In addition to that one in the emails, and generally, speaking editors don't say nice things about you. And they don't typically they don't write to you and ask you to submit a manuscript will you ever attempted to submit no. I mean, I'm a clinical epidemiologist and some of these journals were lifted from soil science, why would somebody from Swail signs Bianchi me and saying nice things about me. They wouldn't know me from anywhere. He's smell. I did maybe several. But that rat will several thousand rats they now well and truly on the loose predatory publishes and the predatory journals have become a major industry global enrich and in destructive potential. In fact, you're going to hear from someone who believes these industry represents the biggest threat to science since the inquisition. The US federal court has just ordered one of the biggest of these companies to pay up over fifty million US dollars owned makes international headquartered in Hajer bed India, but also operating in the US climbs to publish more than seven hundred scientific and medical journals. It was found to employ deceptive business practices to entice on tests to other published in the journals or participating conferences, so does the ruling site by predatory publishes. Well, let's see if any of that money, actually. Moves anywhere is not clear with a group will cough up that fifty million dollars, which is an estimate of how much the company made from customers over a six-year period all whether will appeal we sent a list of questions to its representatives. But yet to receive a reply, but it is nice clear. Message to all the sake journal publishers of the world that they're being watched and their consequences. Joan by Hanan a science journalist and now director of science at an artificial intelligence startup in San Fran cold primer that basically slipping under the radar and using American Canadian European banks to move money millions of dollars of money from illicit gains. So this court ruling basically makes that extremely inconvenient to do. Now Joan was asked to present evidence. In the case brought against the group by the US Federal Trade Commission because hate head and unusual in Canada with the publisher. So. So was one of hundreds of publishers that I tested in sting operation, I root some computer code to generate thousands of very bad scientific papers. In what have been next kind of legendary in sawn circles back in twenty twelve John was reporting for the general size, and the expression predatory journals wasn't in common news. There was a guy named Jeffrey. Beal who was probably the only person around making a big public stink about this and trying to actually shine a light on it. It was a very very bold effort. He had something called feels list, or at least it became known as Beal's last Miami's Jeffrey Beal, and I'm a retired academic librarian from university of Colorado. Denver buffet, said Beal Beal's, blacklist fame and climb and notoriety. He was the first to coin the fries predatory journals of a journal publishers hated being on the list because it stigmatized them and meant that their income was decreased. Most of the predatory publishers are predatory not only in their publishing. But in just the way they operate in general, and they would use the. Heckler's veto. They would call the library director and complain about me, and they would try to annoy people at my university as much as possible in order to manipulate those people at the university to make me stop the list. So that their complaints would stop. I also received several threats of legal action, including think it was in twenty twelve international threaten to sue me for one billion dollars one billion dollars. It was just a threat what I learned from it is that you can basically pay an attorney five hundred dollars in. All right, a threatening letters. So they they did that. But they never followed through with it. It was never introduced in any court consequences for Jeffrey of running that black least would immense and I'll come back to that. One estimate suggests that there at least eight thousand predatory generals. I makes is just one publisher of many that Jeffrey Bill provocatively Kohl's it the evil empire of predatory publishing iced. I stand by that statement, and what they do is. They have really hurt a lot of people, you know, the scholarly publishing system works on the honor system and people operate in good faith, but omitted or national has has totally broken all that down. They use a lot of spamming to solicit article manuscripts from researchers. They have journal titles that match the titles of respected journals. So usually one word off enough to confuse people that might be the respected journal in the field. They will add people's names to their editorial boards without the person's permission people from top universities top researchers in the field in the to use their identity to promote the journal. And when the person finds out about it and ask them to remove their name. They don't remove it. They just leave it there because they're operating from foreign country. There's really nothing you can do about it. And they specially prey on young researchers in emerging researchers researchers who. Who don't speak English as their first language. It's not just scientists from developing countries that a targeted although that Eason acknowledged problem clinical epidemiology, David mo- assays the crosses reaches into some of America's most delayed institutions, including Harvard in analysis that we did where we looked at a close to two thousand articles published in predator journals, we found that actually the most frequent corresponding authors were from what we would call first world countries countries with lots of money and lots of resources that is troubling very very troubling. Because it suggests that at these institutions authors may not be aware of predatory journals, and we need to oversee ramp up some educational activities people think that they're sending manuscripts to a legitimate respected journal when it's religious the phony oryx international journal, and then they quickly accept the paper without any pure of you and. Then send them an invoice. And that point the authors realized that something is wrong because the there was really no period done yet, the papers accepted, and they have this two thousand dollar invoice that comes through Email in the mix demanding payment. Most of them asked to withdraw the paper when they realize that they've been duped. But then omits says you can't withdraw your paper unless you pay us withdrawal and often than omits will publish the article quickly in one of their journals. And then they can't submit it anywhere else because then that would be duplicate submission. It would be publishing the same article twice which is something not supposed to do. Nothing about predatory journals. What he's supposed to happen in science. As John Bohannon discovered when he said, the taste. Yes. So I just wanted to data. It's frustrating to have such an enticing story of you know, bad actors that potentially Ricky and millions of ill-gotten dollars and not get some hard data to find out if it's true. So we pay AM molecular biology from Oxford Oppy slave, he plotted an experiment, which was pretty straightforward. And the idea nutshell is if I submit a really, and I mean, truly bad scientific paper to your journal, and you accept it with no sign of any peer review, and you asked me for money, then you're uric journal publisher. Yeah. Joan wanted to taste how easy it was to get published in a predatory journal. It can usually take many months used even to get a pipe into a reputable scientific journal, and even then it's not a given. That's partly because of what's called peer review essential to the scientific process. So you do an experiment. Hugh, wrought it up reporting results submitted to a journal, and then it gets pulled traits by a bunch of other scientists, and so it should that's peer review, it's designed to Cape science rigorous experiments well-designed the results real usable and reproducible many predatory journals site, I conduct p review about him fact, most of them don't appear of you. They go through the motions of peer review, they might have like a stock pure view that they used for every paper that's submitted. And basically the papers are accepted and just published almost immediately as soon as the invoices. Paid. And so pure review is it's it's a fundamental component of how honest journals carry out their business of looking at manuscripts and seeing whether they're fatally flawed or whether they can be improved whether they're acceptable for publication. Dive moa is director of the Santa fa- gentle Ola g at the auto a hospital were sich institute at the university of Ottawa. Hey in colleagues just hosted a global summit on predatory journals because they want to build a consensus IVA what they are and how to shut them down. So these sorts of behaviors and many other behaviors that are not trustworthy. Jiffy Beal when something is published in a scholarly journal that doesn't represent validated science than it pollutes the whole scientific record and can't build on junk science, or if you do then the future science isn't real science either. On science fiction on VCR, Iran. We may Natasha Mitchell, we're looking at predatory publishes and the threat they pose to science scholarship been truth. So back to science journalist, John Hannan, and he's sting operation own predatory journals. You wrote effect piper. In fact, you you actually wrote a computer program to rot hundreds of spoof papers. Yeah. Actually it. Sped up. Sounds of thousands. I ended up only needing hundreds he's computer program. Change, the authors, affiliations specific, chemicals cancer, cells and other ingredients. He's experiment, but the funding was pretty much the same and this Feick study was potentially. We'll changing. Yeah. It was a thrill could Cuba. Can't at this. John. I was basically claiming that this chemical that I found in this little lichens little plant like creature was able to kill cancer cells in solution. So, you know in principle, you could inject this stuff into your blood like you doing chemotherapy, and it would hopefully kill off cancer cells. And I had these very impressive charts showing the results. Very impressive. Yeah. At Feis value the pipe is sanded convincing, but I will say in with blaring eras, and this would take literally one minute just one glance really of any reasonable science who was to review of this paper. You just look at the numbers representing this charts. And they just make no sense at all. Just don't make any sense and the design of his experiment that was finally flowed to. I mean, these are the kind of mistakes that high school student would make these this isn't even college level mistakes. This is just like the biggest most embarrassing scientific mistake. You imagine this isn't subtle. And then Joan wind Aven Fuda. I just wanted to like bring it to the next level. So at the end of the paper, I have the authors say that, you know, the next thing we're going to do is test this in humans which to any reviewer should be the biggest red flag. I mean aside from the fact the science looks like completely junk, I mean, there's just completely unethical. They target a general suspected to be predatory including two run by group. One cold medicinal chemistry. Another biology amid Essen of eight months he submitted ten pipe is awake. And what happened next is incredible any reasonable publisher should have looked to that paper and said not in no way publishing this that a lot of journals d. Give us give us the very Murray. Doc stet's. Well, the darkest of dark stats is that sixty percent of the publishers accepted, my article so didata any of those sixty percent ask you to make any kind of amendments almost never when they did. It it involved formatting trivial changes that often they would ask me to add citations two papers that they'd published which is also by the really not a good practice. But no, they almost never did any substantial review and even in the few exceptions that DDP to conduct some kind of scientific peer review Jones piper was often accepted. Anyway, even after a damning review what's more to mainstream Totten's of signs publishing Elsa v and sage cold out much to their embarrassment. It was grim. That was not a great day for scientific publishing. And so yeah, over the course of that experiment. Too much. Months to finish. I just sort of got more and more pessimistic about the publishing world, it really changed. My view of the whole industry that I was a part of some people who have been caught up in the sting deed, contact me afterwards effect, we got at least one angry letter to the editor from one of these journals that got caught with its pants down. But I don't have that much sympathy for them because they had the one job. You know, if you're the editor of journal, all you gotta do is withhold the integrity of the journal, and you clearly weren't doing that his of the mole reputable journals think expect a sense of betrayal of trust. And I wonder what you'll response to these. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely everyone craft all over. Old thing. How else would they have reacted? It was basically like taking a giant dump on their entire world. A couple of editors lost their jobs, but considering that they had jobs that a fake journal. I don't see that as such a big loss. So it he's a handful of us now in the industry. The predatory publishing industry has not gone away has not lift science infect indications that it has grown massively going strong. If you carried out the sting operation, again, what do you think might happen? I think the picture would probably be worse. If I were to do it again, though, I'll tell you what I would do is. I would send a sample papers to the publishers who have the more traditional model as well. It it's kind of a maze. Made that this whole problem that I uncovered was dismissed by many for the simple fact that I hadn't also submitted fake papers to different kinds of journals at so they felt like they were being unfairly picked on. So eat some people in the open access publishing movement. And it's a passionate movement. Did I think that you had unfairly targeted the in particular? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. They dragged me through the mud. It was really important claiming Michelle for the traditional scientific publishing world, which is hilarious. If you've know me at all, it's really quite the opposite. I'm quite an advocate for open access everything. But whatever fine, so journalist Joan Bohannon. The confusion between the open access publishing movement, and predatory journals ease perhaps for another edition of the show. It's controversial you say both charge authors to publish the pipers. Instead of slugging raiders all subscribe is with phase. So the open access argument for that. He's that that opens up scientific knowledge naval before freezing up from behind traditional journal piles, but some believe these autho pies model creates an inherent conflict of interest, and that predatory publishes of titan advantage of that in order to build prophets and the taking advantage of scientists to who had disparate to get published in the publishable perish culture of science. Some of them are taking up the offer because they're being tricked by the predatory publishers. And that's why I use the term predatory because they're preying on them. They're they're preying on their weaknesses that people need to get published. So people. Are earning degrees. People are getting promotions. At universities. People are earning tenure in some cases based on a publications in low quality fake, predatory journals that don't conduct any peer review and have almost no selectivity at all they accept everything. And we've also learned that pharmaceutical companies are publishing their research to justify the efficacy of their new medicines. And are using predatory journals to do that as well. What do you think the K drive is of the predatory general sane has been? It's easy money. As Jeffrey beals Blackley stove. Predatory journals grew in influence as did he's reputation publishes and others. Pushed back angrily at him at he's criteria for inclusion on the least at he's lone ranger approach, and he senior antagonism of open access publishing. Some went straight to his universities, later, sheep to attack his credibility. And he became a kind of hybrid of hero in pariah. Had it is university respond for the most part for the first few years. They were supportive of me and legal office. Did help me could I some tricky situations. You know that I'd gotten in because of the threats from the publishers, but towards the end, I think they grew weary of me and the support decreased we have received pressure to shut Daniel blog from your university. I received a pressure, but it wasn't pressure to shut down the block. Doug things became increasingly uncomfortable towards the end before I retired every tired of year ago. Did it become uncomfortable? The university did that some things I used to have an office, and they took me out of an office and put me into a cubicle. They hired a new person to work in the library. He had two years of library experience. And they made him be my supervisor, and you know, part of predatory publishing. There's a broader context to it. There's a social movement behind open access publishing a lot of people want to kill off the traditional publishers and have them all replaced with open access journals. So that everybody throughout the world connects us all published research, and it's very left wing social movement. And so the person that came in as my supervisor was among among those people, and so we had strikingly different ideologies about scholarly publishing. So that was way that they appreciate me. Why did you Dan bills? Least in in two thousand seventeen it has. Reincarnated with anonymous editors in some sense to protect themselves from what you went through. But why did you decide to shut it down in January about your learned that the university was working with one of the publishers on my list and the result of that was that the university initiated a research misconduct investigation against me. And I knew I hadn't engaged in any research misconduct myself because research misconduct means falsification fabrication or plagiarism by definition. And I knew I hadn't done any of that yet. They started this case against me. And I felt very stigmatized by it and that kind of sealed it for me with the university. I, you know, they take another action against me. And now here was something major research misconduct case. And that's why I decided to stop the list. What was the come of that case the outcome in July of twenty seventeen was no real? Search misconduct found headed that. Make you feel made me feel horrible. I felt like my own university that I worked at for seventeen years was turning against me. And I felt stigmatized and I felt like I really can continue the work. And that's why I shut down the blog and the lists. Do you think that Beal's least was a trigger for that action? Sure. It was the publisher that they worked with was was a big one, and the predatory publishers the ones that are doing really well are rich. They have lots and lots of money. They can hire lawyers to go after people and they can organize. Well, and there are several very large very successful predatory publishers out there, and and they have a lot of power, and they will go after anybody who threatens their income was that the publisher was frontiers. So you desist them to be predatory publisher. Yeah. I had lots of. Evidence from stuff that they had published in the published an article about Chem trails in the sky Cam spiracy, THEO. Yeah, they published an article about that which they quickly retracted after I wrote a blog post about it. They published an article saying that doesn't cause aids. So I had lots of lots of solid evidence that they weren't really conducting valid period view. I mean, that's bad science. It's not necessarily making them predatory publish plenty of crap lanes up in good journals. But it gets gets retracted and publishing junk science is one of the criteria that used to evaluate publishers. I mean, you're if you submit an article to publisher thinking, it's a good publisher when they're publishing crap science poor science that is a type of predation against on us researchers. They don't want to be associated with junk science as space in full university of Colorado Dame where Jeffrey held a tenured faculty position would not call me on any research misconduct in. Instigation but told Sant's friction the university coat defended and supported professor bills academe eight freedom to pursue predatory publishing as pot of his scholarship. Junk is the saw it seem predatory journals. You in colleagues have conducted a study to analyze the quality of the research. The studies that Mike eating too that are accepted by predatory journals what's striking divisions. Did you make the quick Chang? Co messages at the quality reporting of these articles is really horrendously bad epidemiologist dive moa at the university of oughta when we compare that to what we might consider as legitimate literature. It's very very much worse. And that's not to say that there aren't problems in the quality reporting of legitimate journal are, but when we moved to predatory journals it suggests that there's the screening that's going on. So for example, we consider peer review in a sense of screen of the integrity and the scientific composer of the research. Which is perhaps not going on many of these papers are funded by reputable agencies and so in a country like Canada where much research is paid out of taxpayer dollars. It it's really very very wasteful it scientifically, very problematic. It won't be seeing won't be cited. And of course, it's a waste of money. And it may also contribute to sort of adding layers fakeness to what people are trying to get at is the truth because they don't conduct a proper period view and their publishing bogus signs. If you have an agenda, nonscientific agenda or a pseudoscientific agenda. You can use predatory publishers to publish your work. You know to the biggest open questions in in science are what is the nature of dark matter. And what is the nature of dark energy? This is from cosmology. And there's no. Scientific consensus as to the answers to those two questions and their big big questions in cosmology and physics the biggest questions of all I think so but those questions have been answered many times in predatory journals. There's lots of people writing articles claiming that they've discovered the answers to those questions in the predatory publishers are happy to accept them as long as the authors pay the fee, and they're published. There's some out there that would happily publish your paper saying that that scenes 'cause autism or that there's no global warming occurring or that nuclear power is is going to destroy everybody a bread causes cancer. Anything you want to write you can write it, and they'll publish it long as you pay the fee dated Melissa's that like fake news. Scientists NC sins end clinicians and Nastro going to distinguish fact from fiction in predatory publications and he wants a global observatory set up to scrutinize they practices. The the problem is that many of these predatory journals. They are now making their way into trusted sources over example, for many researchers clinicians patients they may look at a PubMed put out by the national library medicine, the United States and big data vice of scientific papers a huge daughter basin. And what we see is that they're getting infiltrated with articles from predatory journals that are funded by esteemed institutions funding institutions such as the national institutes of health. And what is the patient to do? What's clinician to do will these people make decisions based on on on that sort of evidence? And I think that that's an incredibly problematic. Jeffrey Bill believes I'm mixing national will survive despite the recent US federal fifty million. Court ruling against them. But we'll save science from the sorts of publishes of predatory journals. I don't see the problem going away. In fact, in some in a lot of countries open. Access advocates have been successful at getting governments to pass laws requiring federally funded work to be published in open access journals. So there when the predatory publishers here about these laws, they are ecstatic about them because it helps them because a certain percentage of the people are going to be publishing in the predatory journals whether by mistake or or intentionally they will be the market the market is there, and it's encoded in LA now, increasingly so then had a we still the excess movement which many says a pulse ity thing you don't from being infiltrated predatory publishes. I don't know way to stop them publishers have freedom of the press. And there's really no. Laws. They're not breaking the laws in most cases, unless they engage in dentistry Pfaff door other things like that. But for the most part they're completely sanctioned by by governments because of freedom of the press. John hannan. I think we're gonna have to reinvent how we do things this old fashioned way of submitting a paper and having some mysterious peer review that no one ever sees happened behind curtain and results in. Yes. Or no, I think we may have to really put some effort into alternative models, and they do exist. It's just that. That's a big culture change, you could make pure review. Transparent. Example, you could have the review part of the record of the paper. That's really embarrassing. It's scary for most scientists to think of a world that's the norm. So there's a lot of resistance, certainly, if it's on to open up that whole he reviewed prices, and in fact, even Kratz souls, that's one way forward. Another would be you have some kind of global auditing system where you know, someone like me doing a sting operation like I did is just continuously rolling along to find out. If you're keeping your word of doing period view, that's expensive and. Unlikely to happen because everyone has to agree. To do it. Well, in some sense some base opposed to he that it's not happening at all. And that anyone pretty much anyone could establish a scientific journal poodle online. Mike it look legit and start making money, and I could make journal right now, I can do fifteen minutes. What were dress side and attach Bank out to? I mean, what do you reckon? Well on these fancy name. Should we use trillion journal of Melbourne? San francisco. Melbourne Frisco journal of. Well, we can work on that. Joan Bohannon, Geoffrey Beal and David moa joining me today and thanks for your east to the world conference on research integrity, ease on soon in Hong Kong again during of solutions beheads thanks to co produce John les studio engineer, Richard Govan and talked me on Twitter at Natasha Mitchell amount via the science fiction, website and share our podcast do that by. You've been listening to an ABC podcast. Discover more great ABC podcasts. Live radio and exclusives. On the ABC. Listen up.

publisher Jeffrey Beal Joan Natasha Mitchell director researcher United States ABC San francisco paper journal Email editor Jeffrey sake journal John John Hannan Joan Bohannon Canada Jeffrey Bill
6 Must-Follow Financial Planning Tips for Parents

The Money Guy Show

22:00 min | 2 years ago

6 Must-Follow Financial Planning Tips for Parents

"You have kids you make sure the fed you make sure they have shelter you tuck them in at night. But you drop the ball on the financial side of being a parent. Six must do's for parents on today's show. It's Brian Preston. The money guy restoring order to your financial chaos. Retired investing taxes you've got financial questions. He's got financial answers. It's Brian Preston the money guy, so Brian I'm actually really excited about this show because you're you're a parent and I'm a parrot. And so I think there's a lot of folks out there listening to say, hey, I'm a parent too. Or maybe I want to be a paired or maybe I'm an expected parrot or maybe I have parents. This is a great show to be able to go through. Hey, there's a six things that parents ought to be thinking about if you have if you have planning on having or even if you are a kid some things, maybe your parents. Here's the thing because of some of the edits you made on the show notes. Even if you got kids that are out of the house. There's some things in here. That are go hit you. So this is all ages. All you have to do is at some point in your life. Somebody called you mama or daddy. So here, let's talk about must do's for parents. Number one. Let's just jumping into this by the way money God dot com. I don't brag about go. Check us out at money dot com. Subscribe to the YouTube channel or go. Listen to us on. However, you download pod catcher I tunes. Iheartradio witter. Okay. That's a hot mess jump into this thing. Number one draft, a will and a plan for guardianship. That's dare I say that's the biggest most important most vital when and that's why I put number one when you think about like financial planning, there's a pyramid. We always talk about the planning pyramid with the very base of the pyramid. Are your biggest risks the things you have to take care of and right dead in there. If you have young children, the number one thing that has to be on your list is a state knock uments and plans for guardians. I'm surprised at how many successful people that come to us, and they don't have this. And I think a lot of times it's because it's an uncomfortable conversation. And Bo you you wrote it in the show notes is that it's uncomfortable conversation when you're all here above ground. Right. How do you think it's going to be when somebody besides you trying to make the decision? So don't let the state be the decider of what happens with some of your your your most pressing on the planet, which is. Your children in what are we talking about? We're talking about if something were to happen to you. And or your spouse and someone else is gonna have to step in to take care of your children your estate documents the garden ship provision inside your will are the documents estate who that person will be they'll also state how that personal handle the money for the benefit your kids. Sometimes it's the same person. Sometimes it's different people. So you just have to make sure if you've had kids, and you don't have updated estate documents or maybe the brother in law and sister that you said we're going to be the guardians have now gotten divorced or a parent is no longer in the picture, whatever the case may be you just have to make sure that's that's updated. Because unfortunately, none of us know when we're going to get hit by that bus nuns. And so you have to be prepared to plan ahead. Number two, buttoned-down your insurance coverage. Bo this thing looked like an all you can eat buffet of insurance coverage is so let's come jump into this first one we had was life insurance the whole purpose now. I know a lot of you guys. It's okay. If you wanna play, but a lot of you guys you. Here. Why insurance you get nervous? These guys about to sell me some insurance because we all see the life insurance agents coming our way. And so has no I'm trying to make sure that you're protecting and replacing income. That's right. Because in look, I don't I don't like products that are sold through fear. But it is one of those things where life insurance I would hate to see you in your twenties thirties, and you have young children in the house, and you have so many hopes and dreams, and then just because you didn't do the little work of getting life insurance shored up for yourself term life insurance that all those dreams are not fulfilled. And we've seen this both ways. Bryan. It's always tragic. No matter what when someone passes away when they're young children the house and we've seen it one. You know, one way where life insurance was the saving grace that allowed the family to be able to continue to function the same way with with the deceased pair. And unfortunately, also say to the other way where someone has passed away without life insurance has been a real struggle for the for the family left behind. It was just. If the wills and estate documents or this piece, right above that piece. You have to make sure you have life insurance. So here's some good guidance on that is typically while you have children in the house. You wanna do however long? So if you have like a five year old might make sense to a twenty year term politics gets the twenty five right? And then do ten times your income. Plus if you have a big mortgage any other big debt that you wanna make sure is paid off. And then even potentially some of the educational funding goals that you might have for for the kids. So yes, that's so a question. Just immediately arises, okay? What if somebody I work, and my spouse stays home with the kids, then have any income so ten times zero I probably don't need to get life insurance on my spouse that is such a misnomer in the fact that just because you have one spouses stays home with the children that is has a tangible asset value that needs to be insurance. Always tell people at least go get two hundred two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a term insurance on that spouse. Even if they're staying at home because guess what if something should happen to them, you who is making the money would have to find a way to cover those that for a period of time, and you might even be out of the workforce for a while. While you're getting all that fee sorted out. So it's nice to have that protection coverage there. Was it can help out with the debt number two on the button-down. The life insurance coverage is disability insurance because another huge one guess what you're more likely to become disabled than you are to die. But yet the number of people have disability insurance is much smaller than people even have life insurance. So if we had disability, or at least considering how much insurance should you get? Yeah. So we think pretty solid rule of thumb is about sixty percent of whatever your current income is so if you can replace sixty percent, and what does does it's supposed to bridge that gap. If you were to become disabled unable to go to work unable to go create an income this insurance will pay out. So that your family can still pay the mortgage food on the table keep the lights on. So sixty percent is pretty standard. Obviously if you're someone who's either higher income or maybe you have higher economic needs. You can go above sixty percent. But that's what we normally say always thing is when you hear sixty percent. Wow. I don't know if I could make it off that. But here's the truth of the matter. Your paycheck is probably only sixty to seventy percent of what you actually make. In the good news is with disability insurance. If you pay the premium after-tax, meaning don't let don't take it pre-tax don't take the tax deduction when you pay the premium on your disability premiums. But if you pay it after tax, if you do become disabled the entire benefit will be paid tax free. So that's sixty percent could actually feel a lot more because it's going to be completely tax free. And that makes a huge difference bow before we moved on pass disability. We talk about this specifically like with doctors and people who are specialists, what's own occupation. As you wanna make sure the definition of disability on your policy as an own occupation definition as opposed to on any occupation. What you don't to be as you want to be a specialist? Maybe engineer that makes a very solid income, and you're highly specializing become disabled, and you go to follow claiming insurance companies as well, you're not disabled because you could still go become a schoolteacher or you could still go do this or do that. You wanna make sure you have insurance a place to protect you from doing your job. So that way protect your family, and I've seen a mix of especially for high income people. You might have a mix of both types you might have own off because it's expensive more expensive. I should say, and he might have more just general protections. So you could have a mix that way, you're protected if you have some catastrophic that you couldn't even do the schoolteaching or some other and that's not a cut on school. It's just saying that different than insurance underwriting or the insurance risk group is going to treat each case differently. Let's move on. Because this one is special with with kids Ombrella coverage. We have a case what's so funny is that I've been doing this so long that I have a case where a child in elementary school through a rocket the school bus off the school bus picked up a rock through the rock at the school bus causing mischief hit a person and had to get some corrective surgeries and other things. It was a disaster. The umbrella coverage protected now what's crazy is this person is now married. Super successful the kid. She had the kid is I graduate from a old. That's what I'm telling you even good kids do stupid stuff. And I'm telling you umbrella coverage will protect you. And it's not only gonna protect you from your kids. But if you have somebody working at the house, you're going to like this or you're gonna car accent. You don't even have to be at the house might be in a car accident in your umbrella. Coverage is what's going to protect you. If somebody decides they're going sue so make sure you can take that into account. If you're someone who has either assets built up, or even you just have really strong income earning potential, probably make sense, if you have on Bella coverage, and it's really really inexpensive. All you have to do is call your interchange at whoever has your home and auto insurance and say, hey, send me a quote for an umbrella policy roughly equal in my net worth. So if your net worth is a million bucks get a million dollar, quote so on and so forth. It's a little harder. Once your net worth over five million people because we have listeners we you know, we have all types that are that listening. So. And then you close it out both go into detail and health insurance. There's this really interesting dichotomy that exists in the health insurance world where you can increase what your deductible is. And it'll decrease what you pay your premiums. There's nothing wrong with that would just make sure that you have emerged reserves where you can fund your deductible. If you're in a situation where you're just trying to save so much the monthly premium that you have really subpar insurance with really high premiums understand the risk that you're running. So if you have a young family, if you have kids in the house, make sure the insurance coverage, you have make sense for where you are lifestyle was number three on this list of parent. Parental must do's sounds a little bit counterintuitive because it sounds a little selfish and here, it is prioritize building your own financial independence. You got to put yourself first. And you always because we traveled together. What's the analogy? Always give on this. Whenever whenever you're on an airplane. The flight a flight attendant flight attendants flood the flight attendant, always you know, does the thing. And they always instruct you. Hey, if we should. Need to put our oxygen masks on make sure you put your mask on before you try to help out showdown or folks around you because you have to make sure you're on a solid foundation before you can help others. Your finances is no different you need to make sure you're on a solid financial footing before you start trying to help your kids get on a solid financial flu. So make sure I mean, we've done so much content on financial order of operations, though, things you've got to have the basics covered. You know, the cash reserves got cover the fifteen to twenty percent for retirement savings, all these things. So that it's your choice or juniors choice or your daughter's choice for you live in the basement, and it's not out of a financial necessity because you made very poor decisions with your financial life. So so be very careful that one number four I'm in the middle of this one guys in the trenches of this number four, which is teached the value of a dollar. I think I'm winning. But I don't want to jinx it. What I mean by teach the value of dollars. This is the stage where I won't I won't people one of the must do I think all parents need to do is you won't your your children to be good citizens when they leave the nest you want to encourage a good work. I think womb desire to defer portion for the future. And he also wanted to be charitable. I mean, I think all those things are very noble. So here's some things you can do to teach these skill sets. I know I like to see matching programs. Yeah. Just like your employer offers you a matching program for your retirement savings. Why shouldn't you as a parent offer a matching program for your child? I know I do a dollar for dollar Roth contribution to my fifteen year old for she worked. She babysits and does other things we do a dollar for dollar match. And she she loads that thing up her just think about how excited I if she gets somehow put together three thousand dollars this year. She'd max out her all that matching how powerful a Roth maxed out at age fifteen is going to be for Herbie. Huge. The other part of this is a ties eventually into finances. But it's more of just a work ethic sought of things is I think you have to have expectations. Will you children about what chores they're supposed to be doing what the responsible for? It's just like my daughter knows. She's in charge of the dishes. Yeah. I mean, and and you know, what this is good for because I was always in charge of the dishes when I was a kid. I love washing dishes. Now. I don't know if it's some sick weirdo thing since I was doing it since a young age that I enjoy washing dishes, but it's good for your kids to. I know she has to take care of a room take care of the dishes take care of the dog. You know, feeding and all that stuff. And then we're looking at I haven't done it yet, but the inches there. I think she needs to be doing our own laundry within the next year. I need to get some tips from you because I keep trying to get my kids into the dishes. And I just can't get your children are way too young to be doing dishes. Maybe you could do that that is like a circus sideshow. So that would be incredible. Because your oldest is what three and a half. There's no way they can do dishes at three now he'd be replacing. This is probably. And then the last thing I was gonna put on number four was we're in the car age unite you hear our fellow neighbor. Dave Ramsey talks about this. I'm in this right now because I have a fifteen year old. So you were with me both is probably a week and a half ago, and I get an apricot west from my daughter for the DMV. Yes. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I thought we should go push us off a little bit. So she's obviously interested in learning drive, but she is very aware. And she would tell you if she was sitting right here. She knows that we're going to do a matching program on her car purchase. It will not be us buying her car because I think that first of all that's one of those life things that I think that you don't won't your child's. I really nice car to be something. Mommy and daddy Baltra. I don't want to upset anybody out there. But it's that's you suppressed in my opinion is just because I know some of my most fulfilling things is when I've gotten to do things for myself. And I just don't want to take that away from our daughter doesn't mean you don't put them in. And safe vehicles. Just means that I'm trying to instill work ethic. An individual desire to take care of themselves. Number five. Help fund is education goals, y'all probably thought this was going to be number three instead of making sure your finances are in good shape. We put this number five. This is at the point where you have to figure that there's no right or wrong answer on this. I have. So we have so many successful clients. And I have I'm always amazed. When you talk about when you talk to parents, and you say, what do you feel like you're obligated to your kids on education, you'll get a different answer. I'll share Mon Mon is I came out of college debt free. I had some scholarships, and then, you know, my parents helped out or a little bit and I came out. And I always thought that was great that I hit the ground running on building. Well, right from day one because we don't come for money, but at least through scholarships and other things that came out of college debt free. You were kind of the same. Exactly, right. But let me ask you came college from scholarships because you you were making money in college. I remember when you took the job with me, you actually took a pay cut from all the grants and scholarships. You're getting but do you think you? Do you want the same thing for your kids or do you want them to pay for some of it? Yeah. I'm still trying to figure that out. I don't have my I don't have my head fully wrapped around that. Yeah. Because my wife, and I've taught about it because my wife is someone who had to take had to take out student loans to go through school one of the very first things that we did as a couple was around how to pay off her student loans. And so there are some I think my preference is going to be at all my kids to have student loans, but we'll see and maybe what we'll do is. They'll be some baseline that. Hey, I will cover this much cost of your schools. If you go to school that fits below that then debt dad's got it a mom and dad have it. And if it go above that. And then we need you desma skin in the game. I don't have that figured out yet. The big thing is having discussion with your spouse about what are you? What do you feel like you're obligated to your children is on education and then come back with a plan? I mean figure out how you're gonna attack this. And that's that's going to lead to the next thing. Which is maximized the planning tools five twenty nine I will tell you. They've always been great they've gotten even better under the new tax legislation because not only are they great for college. You could now. Us five twenty nine for K through twelve private school up to ten thousand dollars a year. So these things I I tell you I love when you can find a planning tool. This is why cages as for healthcare and other things that let you let your assets work for you that army of dollar bills. And then stick it to your favorite uncle on the taxes because that's what the other good thing about five twenty nine. Remember, if you use these things for educational purposes any type of growth within the account is going to be completely tax free. And they usually get a little bit of a sweetener a lot of states in the United States offer tax incentives. If you participate in their plan, so I'm just going to throw it a little bitty life hack out there, if you are a parent or a grandparent, and you are sending your kids to private school right now where you're sending your grand kids to private school. Check to see if your state has attacked center for fatherm nine contributions, even if you're not saving for college. You probably should be if you're sending a private school. But if you're not doing that, it might make sense you start funding that. Twenty nine to get the state tax deduction in order to pay for the private school that part was for free. Now, a lot of these five tips that we just gave pertained a lot to grazing child rearing you'd put this one on here. I thought this is great. There's made it an all ages episode because number six I think so interesting is a lot of these steps are are steps that you see people make mistakes you see people make when their kids are young. It's actually not the mistake that we see made the most often the number one mistake, we see made the most often is that parents don't bring their kids into the financial equation as they age as your children become adults and start families of their own. And as you begin to advance in age, it's really important that you have that conversation with your kids about, hey, these are wishes this is our plan. These are the things that we have going on. This is how we're going to entrust you to help us navigate that. Because there becomes a point unfortunate for some folks where they can't read. Remember can't do all the things that they want. Then you just wanna make sure you have that conversation with your kids before you get to that point. I think it's a two way street because it's going to if you're a successful. You have adult children you need to kind of have conversations. So that they're not their expectations aren't skew think think about Warren Buffett now, look all of his kids are probably very wealthy because he's super wealth. But he let it be known to them that they weren't inheriting all these billions of dollars. I mean, I think it's the same thing with anybody successful is that you should have conversations with your dull children I understand with expectations. But then the the two way street part comes into effect is that if you do a good enough job with that. It's not going to warp them because you've had a good healthy relationship with money. And then the second thing is is that you start to falter, maybe you lose some of your your your faculties to be able to do everything on your financial management. If you've done a good job of the communication side. A lot of those desires. A lot of those goals that you have probably going to naturally happen. Because you've done such a good job of creating the plan and the communication because let's face. It you kids you love your kids your kids love you back, and they typically want to make you happy. So if you'll if you'll just be realistically each other open that line of communication, I think he can do some tremendous things. So guys, this is one of those things where I feel like we also if we were in the new studio, we could put up videos of kids like fell video of kids. Crashing the crisis calls or running into stuff. And of course, you know, some wiffle ball bats hitting into people's private parts, and it would kick this thing up a whole 'nother level, but from financial perspective this stuff, just as important try and just as educational and entertaining if you will focus on doing these six dues must do's for parents. If you have a subscribed out there on the YouTube channel, go out to go to YouTube. Subscribe if you haven't signed up for our emails every every other week, we do a law. Long show after after that long show the next week. We've been sending on deliverables that are only available right now to our Email subscribers. So if you want to cool worksheets, spreadsheet template, awesome doodad thing that we come up with go out there money guy dot com. Give us your Email address. You'll get on our Email list, and we will get that in your hand. A love it. I'm your host Brian press them, Mr. Bohannon, we'll talk to you soon. The money guy podcast is hosted by Brian Preston. Brian Preston is a principal with abound wealth management, abound. Wealth management is a registered investment advisory firm, regulated by the security and Exchange Commission in accordance and compliance with the securities laws and regulations abound. Wealth management does not render offer to render penalized investment tax advice through the money guy podcast. The information provided is informational purposes only and does not constitute financial tax investment. The legal advice.

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Ep 651 | 'Who the Hell Elected You?' Twitter CEO Gets Grilled by Cruz

The News & Why It Matters

44:04 min | Last month

Ep 651 | 'Who the Hell Elected You?' Twitter CEO Gets Grilled by Cruz

"Hunter. Biden drama continues after his ex associates sits down for an interview Senator Ted Cruz grills twitter CEO, asking him who the hell elected you and violence and Philadelphia escalated overnight leaving one of our very own blaze TV reporters with a busted lip. We've got that much much more coming on and it starts right now. Welcome to the news and why it matters I. Am Jason, buckle filling in for Hillary Kennedy who was filling in for Sarah Gonzales. But you know we we're getting rid of all those chicks today. This is the equivalent gentlemen of the volleyball scene from top gun. The boys are back in town maverick over here Chad Prater. And iceman over here. Absolutely, Louis. was. Jump right into this. So obviously a huge day for nerds like me who have been following this Hunter Biden thing I can't keep track of all these leaks coming out in an insane rate and it's Kinda hard to keep track of them. We've got the laptop we've got the emails from. Kuni. And now we have a guy that's got probably one of the most dote names in the election right now election cycle Tony Bob Alinsky. Speaking of dope. He gave an incredibly dope interview. With Tucker, Carlson I was specifically I didn't know what to expect. He was saying he was going to release. I think new recordings or something like that. I remember there was one recording that release. But beyond that I want to get you guys is impression. Did you think what I? What did you think about the interview? Well, I wasn't. Earth shattering new revelation as much as I might take away from it was this guy's legit. He's really backing it up with a lot of evidence. These guys aren't just pulling out of thin air and creating some kind of conspiracy. This guy's involved he he didn't want to be doing the interview. Yeah. He was very reluctant in doing it is not where he wanted to be but here's a guy who has something at stake and he's defending his own name and reputation by coming out right? He's got something he's got skin in the game. Yeah. I agree I it's almost like this was to kind of show that this dude is credible. This is not Russian misinformation. Propaganda or whatever I personally feel like this guy is pissed off Eric Reducing. No absolutely because that's what we talked about on the show not too long ago about how he doesn't have much to gain aside from saving his own credibility. So that seems to be what the purpose of the interview was what he wanted to betray like we said it wasn't necessarily shattering anything that he that he said, but he wants to give more. So credibility to what is he saying? Can you believe this man because of course when someone? Like that you you have to question and I think what he's trying to do is say, no this to the extent that always involved into to my knowledge. This is how these guys are involved, and this is how I know this. Why I know this, always trying to give the the the the viewers that that perception that okay. This guy at some point knows what he's talking about. He's not least attempting to be dishonest at least you get that idea from watching the interview I. Totally. Agree I. think that I'd like to focus on what was actually in the interview because I think that's probably why you're listening to this podcast of the show right now. Are you remember blaze TV is because you're not hearing about any news like this in the mainstream media, they're completely derelict in their duty on this story. It's absolutely insane. We'll get to twitter and facebook later on in the show but let's focus on some of the things that he actually said now, want to take a close. Magnifying glass I want he talked about plausible deniability. I think we actually have that video complain that. I. Know Joe decided not to run in two thousand sixteen but what if he ran in the future aren't they taking political risk or headline risks and I remember looking at Jim Bohannon saying you guys getting away with this like aren't you concerned and he sort of looked at me and he laughed a little bit and said. Plausible deniability. He said that I'll wild. Yes. She said it directly to me one on one in a Cabana, the Peninsula hotel after about. Hour and a half two hour meeting with me asking out of concern how are you doing this? Aren't you concerned that you're GONNA put your brothers future presidential campaign at risk The Chinese the stuff that you guys have been doing already in two thousand, fifteen in two, thousand, sixteen around the world and. Just almost picture his face where he's sort of chuckles and says, you know plausible deniability. Now, that's insane. Why if you're not doing anything wrong if there's nothing wrong then why do you need plausible deniability nothing to deny Love it. When Tucker goes into his wait a minute. Am I understanding what you're saying? You know what? I mean like it helped me understand something right now. He said that out loud and Kudos to Tucker for at least doing some journalism because nobody else is doing anything nobody's asking these questions. I keep saying we're GONNA hill is hunter is a guy even alive right now I mean, can he be contacted for comment on any of this? This is this is beyond smoking gun. This is something right now where I in we're looking at it. It's this giant elephant in the room is taking a dump all over the room and we're just like, okay. Well, we want to talk about this. Nope don't want to talk about this at all. Big I completely agree and I. Especially from I think people like you and me because I think we can put ourselves in the our category. But. I don't know about you eric like because you're more of the L. Category. Amongst your friends and amongst the people that you talked to and think about these things from a libertarian perspective, are you guys does this concern? You are you interested in it at all? The only reason why it's Interesting is it seems to validate what we assume about Joe Biden already over rather maybe every single Bala Titian that they are corrupt. In some sense, but this has. Generally. Say politicians are corrupt being very vague being very generic with US assume politician corrupt. But when you hear someone talk like that and then you see that. Way, more than I think we're beyond the smoking gun at this point like. It puts it puts like. Evidence on it and it's like, okay, he is corrupt or the minimum there is something going on. So we already assumed that that was the case what this story comes out and really tells us is that it may go deeper than what even we assume and more. So just it just really validates what it is that we already knew with Joe Body, I? Mean this is a man that has been in some capacity and government for longer than I've been alive way longer than. I've been alive and you look at how much money he's worth. How much money That family is worth rea- flex should go off anyway. But when you hear something like this and then you you see that. Be beyond the smoking gun main there's something there. This is a very corrupt man who was using at some capacity, the position that he was in to sort of line his pockets and his family's pockets. That is the centerpiece of this entire story, and in my opinion, this blow this is going to blow. The is starting to blow the lid on how these corrupt politicians make all their stupid money. It's absolutely ridiculous. They show up on day one with nothing making four thousand dollars a year and they have a Honda and then it forty years later they have a ten million dollar mansion and Mercedes, it makes absolutely no sense and. This is another thing from that interview where we're starting to see really how they get these things done in the question is did Biden actually personally make money off this I want to go to another video clip from this. It's Bob Alinsky talking about Joe Biden actually vetoing bobbins business plan when he said one hundred and set his chairman. He was talking about his dad. Correct. There's two chairman and the story there's chairman Ye was the chairman of CFC. Text from one Hunter Biden he was not charged talking about the chairman of CFC and what hunters referencing there is he spoke with his father and his father is giving an fatted. No to ask that I had which was putting proper governance in place around Oneida Holdings. So Joe Biden. Is. Vetoing your plan for putting stricter governance in the company I. Mean It's it's right here in the email took her I want to be very careful in front of the American people that is not me writing that that is not me claiming that that is Hunter Biden writing on his own phone typing in that I spoke with my German referencing his father. Okay. So to put this even more context, Joe Biden said in the last debate that he has never taken a dime or made money in this fashion, he's never done. Never, took it a foreign country. Okay. We'll efforts been laundered through a lot of different places. Technically, he hasn't right. I mean who in the world use your addiction riddled son as the bag man in a situation like this it's bad and then you look at the mysterious findings of his brother who goes from ten percent shareholder to a twenty percent shareholder. So there's their shifts that are going on that we don't understand and it looks like maybe the brother Jim was getting. Joe's ten percent handling it for him. I mean. There's all of these numbers that are there that just don't add up. There's some real. Mafia. KONTA. Going on behind the scenes here yeah. I WanNa the biggest thing I get when talking about this on social media people say, why should I even care like I don't I'm not voting hunting for president that's what they say every single time and I actually I wanna play a clip and then go right to you eric and get a reaction from you. This is a clip from actually Ted Cruz. It's a different clip. It's Ted Cruz talking about if this is going to make any kind of different all watch by the way on a Biden's best points. was when he said all of these attacks back and forth about my family, his family. They don't matter what matters is your family that that may have been. Biden's best moment actually. And I. Don't believe voters of moved by the Hunter Biden Snow I don't think it moves a single voter. I. And I'm glad look I think that what was it about ten fifteen minutes where they were slamming each other's families and going back and forth I think that was kind of that was a wash. That's good. Okay. So I emphatically disagree with that I think middle middle of the road of voters and I think, Libertarians thank Republicans that maybe not have liked trump they don't want to live in a kleptocracy because that's what this is all about If we turn by eye, if somebody if a politician is going to do something that we like, let's say give us free healthcare but they turn out to be overtly corrupt but we say screw it let them have their way. How are we different from Russia or? China I. On this is crony capitalism capitalism becomes crony because of things like what is being alleged about Joe Biden. What do you think about about this Eric? Yeah No. I understand where it's coming from and this idea that because you see lack of folks maybe talking about it definitely in the media if they control the conversation, it seems like people aren't paying attention and listen or listening. But as we get closer to the election, which is right around the corner and there are people that have not actually placed in their votes, I do believe that one or two of them could look at that and be like you know it would be. More. So the Conservatives and definitely trump himself to as much as he could say, look at this like this is a this is a pretty big deal because that's really the only way that they're going to talk about it but you're completely right and the idea that when when, Libertarians talk about corruption and way of politicians using the position of power to of their own pockets, their friends, pockets, their families, pockets this is a textbook example of that if if all of what we've seen. All what he's saying is true. Then that's That's exactly what's going on. So if anything if maybe it doesn't matter right now but maybe going into the future when you look at the Biden's of the world and you look at all these politicians who have been been politicians for a very, very long time and you see them come out on the other side of this with lots and lots and lots of money maybe people won't undermine the idea that maybe they are despite what they're advocating free hill care wanting to care about the individual no matter what party that they claim to be a part of it is clear and obvious that they are using that position of power to the two again, funnel money. To themselves or to their families or to their friends, and that's not what any free market capitalist would be an advocate. That's not what any Libertar- now doubt imagine our conservative would be an advocate of either. So what it does is it highlights the position itself within the presidency or any other government congressman doesn't matter hopefully people pay more attention to that and how the lining the pockets. Chedda let's say for let's say you're a never-trumper are you concerned at all? Does this make you change your vote I know that's hard to even put your put your mindset into that but. Can they can they seriously for continue to be never trump after the this this vote is based on two factors. You either love trump or you hate trump there's nobody out there that loves by nobody. Seen anybody that can tell me a good reason to vote for Biden, unless they include the word trump in there. Right. So you hate him or you love it you're going to vote accordingly. So that I see the point in what crews was saying I agree with what Eric will say it as well in saying. Now. I'll tell you what it could do could create apathy in me that says, I'm not voting at all. In this situation. I'm not gonNA vote for Biden because he's corrupt not gonNa vote for trump is on a like him down he just two crafts for me. My little boy to grow up to be like Donald Trump. So I'm just not the. Screw the whole thing. It's kind of a repeat of last election. Really. Well, you can't tell me you cannot tell me that. With that mindset of voting in this election, you can't tell me that Joe Biden will receive more of the Popular Vote Than Hillary Clinton did in two thousand sixteen. And if he gets it nobody better tell hillary she'll be trashing more hotel rooms so. Another deal you just can't. You just can't convince me that he will get more popular votes than Hillary. Clinton didn't two thousand sixteen just no way. We've got more calm a ton more to come up actually but I wanNA thank our sponsor not free American Free America is written by Mike Donovan. This guy fought tyranny for years the founder of the nation's largest pro Bono civil rights law firm as Donovan puts it in his new book. Not Free America. Our Bill of rights has been under attack long before covid nineteen George fluids murderer. If you refuse to surrender your liberty to an earthly power, you need this book not free America solves the issue of citizens being used by the government, but it's more than just a book. It's a solution. VISIT NOT FREE AMERICA DOT COM to take the liberty pledge and order your book and order your copy today to find out how to stop the overreaching abuse of our government and what action do you can take do better. We must work together and do better to fix our ever compounding liberty crisis in America. If we unite around the concept of liberty, we can create lasting greatness. Remember the most significant change usually comes from a crisis never take a crisis for granted do your part visit not free America. Dot. com today that is not free America Dot Com order your book today back in. Silicon Valley. was how I wish I could say there up on the hill today testifying at a hearing but they were all via zoom whatever there are calling in I didn't think this was going to happen it looked like the Republicans are of stepping back and they weren't going to call them forward. But after the New York Post Fiasco, they pretty much said they'd had enough and they started to call them and ask them why the heck. They seem to be so biased on throttling just just because pretty much looks like you're conservative or you don't toe, they're line throttling or outright ban you actually New York Post they're going on two weeks. Now of still not being able to post their count Ted Cruz has been one of the most fiery people talking about this I love it when he really gets after he went after Jack Dorsey today take a look at this. Anyone, can. Censor political presumably, you can censor the New York Times or any other media outlet Mr, Garcia who the hell elected gin and put you in charge of what the media are allowed to report and what the American people are allowed to hear and why do you persist in behaving as democratic super. PAC. Silencing News to the contract your political. Jack Dorsey. Chorus. Looking like he was. Doing video conference as of the Taliban in the mountains of Afghanistan. Join them. Rats Rasputin. Look he's going for. I watch this and it was so infuriating every single time he would answer a question about bias say they'll have bias. There was a g pie actually came up with a showed a bunch of tweets that they hadn't censored or tried to throttle, and it was the Tila Khameini talking about the destruction of Israel. There's that one right there. We will support us as a nation group anywhere who opposes invites fights the Zionist regime and we do not hesitate to say this there was multiple others that are absolutely ridiculous they go talk about. Holocaust denial none of those were throttled. He was confronted on. Censoring. Trump I think sixty five or sixty, six times but Biden zero and every single time he'd never really had an answer. He said, no, we don't do this. You guys are very heavy on social media. Those the Chad have you have you personally? Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Anybody that wants to even come at me with that. Let me tell you I. got the graphs I can show you I can show you from their very own graphs. I can show you a objective grass from from sales reports from the traffic that we use look I you WanNa talk about falling off the cliff with the restrictions I get warnings and I don't even get the warnings that I've been warned. They don't even tell me with the we we go later weeks later in its show something from you know three weeks ago that they flagged because it might contain something that has been speculated to be faults right it they they don't know. They have no idea. If it's this idea of independent fact Checker, you won't talk about an oxymoron. There's no such thing as an independent fact checker who's out there doing that everybody at this stage in the game has a bias. I. Don't get these fact checkers I. Don't think people understand what it's like to not be a liberal. Either influencer someone that's on social media or an outlet like blaze. TV. But it's a daily struggle and the other side. They don't have to deal with this. They trust these fact checkers that we check the other day about the Biden family slave owners, and they fact check this on it. They didn't even read the report and they said it was false based off of something that we'd even say so eventually after we brought. It up they had to come back again and they they got rid of it and let let the story go but it shows you if they're that wrong on that how wrong are they on everything I think your your content is interesting because you might be able. You can probably have it easier gauge because you do stuff has nothing at all to do with politics and other stuff that's more political lines are can you tell? Big Defoe, absolutely. Like when I do stuff that's like strictly gaming or strictly entertainment for that matter I generally don't have any sort of problem and when I do say something that is and I think we all have to kind of go through this libertarian conservatives. Alike, it's like we have to try to because we are under the expectation definitely now that it's either going to be censored that it's going to go run through. These independent fact checkers I don't know I. Don't personally know anybody that's like a conservative or libertarian. It's acting tour has at least had a twelve, hour, twenty, four, hour, three day man I've had all of that on really all for social media except Youtube surprisingly. But of course, we experienced that and especially on twitter that's always been the problem with the independent fact checker the independent fact checkers yourself that's who the end Benefactor Korea's. Just, go and look at the stuff for yourself and and it's not it shouldn't be up to. Those folks to try to funnel that for us like we can analyze it ourselves and see if. Not Exact we don't need you to babies I wish you could see this thing on the screen. This is one of my businesses we use social media to drive business to this external marketplace online. Okay. If you see the graph that drastic fall off, this is just in the last week or two right here that you can see from an independent. Businesses there if you take a look at that shot right there, look it up fall off right there that peak and then just in the last two weeks boom. There it is. It's crazy. I mean that that right there that has nothing to do with anything but they're just shutting down the flow of traffic because we advertise and we push products on. Something that potentially might have a political bias or ablaze article or something of that nature. Yeah. So the things that irritate me the most when we talk about this especially on conservatives, expect it from the Left I. Don't expect this from people that are conservative, but they always talk about regulating big tech all let's go in and break them up. Are All let's like post some more rules in there to try and stop this or whatever that? No that is never the answer from a conservative perspective it's not. Eric. What is the answer? Asser has always been I'll say this as a create a memorial platforms, you name it I'm on twitter more Youtube facebook everything. There is still considered popular media every single creator on their signs, a term of service, right? It is a goes both ways and were conservatives have lost on this issue is that they act like that's not even a thing that you can grill them all like, Hey, are you upholding your sod a bargain? Are you getting your? You know these expensive lawyers that you get to try to interpret. Section thirty or whatever you can be using to go through the damn in terms of services violating this this this and this, they're not holding their and of the bargain bargain when it comes to us as creators on their particular platform. But the absolute worst possible scenario is to ask the government the state to other heavily regularly or worse control, and then decide who can know that's never never ever been the as we have seen. Thankfully over the course of the last year little alternative starting to pop up. We're seeing this in Youtube. You got the bit of the world you see Canada Paula tried to do its thing. I welcome those not to say that most people won't use them I mean things fail all the time but that's a welcomed and if you want to compete with them compete with now if there are when we talk about these big tech companies and which is another thing I think we can drive home and I don't know if conservatives want to go there. Let's talk about ways that they fund. Themselves may be rather illegitimately in terms of government contracts and stuff like like that. Maybe we could get rid of those that SORTA which is considered rather corporate welfare. Maybe those are the things that we can take any consideration. To try to make them have to listen to who it is the consumer because when you play with everybody else's money, it's like we can ban. You would've worst. What are you GonNa do to us. Remember newspapers now imagine okay because a lot of people look at this and they say well, social media just get off of it we can't because that's the communication form of the day right? So you used to have newspapers imagine having an independent fact checker that every time they dropped a package of newspapers out in front of the store somebody went through instead. Cross up that obituary, we gotta get rid of that classified ad. Yeah. I know you paid for it but I don't like what it says I don't like how it's worded this story this editorial no, don't like it, and then you start doing it or you say, well, I kind of like reading the national enquirer. News. Matter I like to read it. But you know you're not getting the truth right and a matter I like to read it sorry can't read it. That's that's fake news, and so they want to do that. Now. You apply that social media. It's the same kind of principle they're coming in. That's why he says who did you if I want to read the Damn Enquirer I saw bigfoot three times in the last thirty, six hours at least has more time than I saw Joe Biden. We've got a lot more to come stay tuned. We were back. Child yesterday. Eleven people were shot overnight in the riots in Philadelphia and I think over thirty police officers have now been have now been assaulted and hurt as well. Know there was one leg was broken when a truck ran into him he's now in the hospital, the writing and the is absolutely insane I looked at the video of how all of this started and again, we don't have all the information. The witnesses said that he the guy that was killed had a knife in his hand I'm not sure if that's been fully. Verified yet or not, but you can clearly see that he is going towards the police officers. I. I don't I don't know how many times is going to happen. It's like I don't even know wh. It's clearly not about to me. It's clearly not about black lives. Clearly not about black lives. So about black absolutely nothing to do with these guys are opportunistic Jack Wagons just call them what they are and the Democratic Party the general leftist and I'll speak to them in particularly speaking vaguely when they go and say, will you are in opposition? That is you care more about? Stuff. Then you care about lives as if you can't actually focus on two things at once they fostered this they've let this monster grow and now what people look at it as that will our ability to get out there and do whatever it is. Free Fall All we have to do is have a think about having a reason. We don't have it and you pick the people that are going and frigging footlocker even not man's name they got shot. They don't know they don't care. It has nothing to do with anything. I'm so sick and tired of a Democratic Party so sick and tired of these left is trying to pretend as well. This is the way that they try to. Get some attention on it, or this is the way that they know the last show that is the equivalent of, let's say one of you pissing me off and I go blow up my neighbor's house has nothing to do with anything my neighbor had nothing he wasn't even involved in this altercation, but that's what happened and this is a monster that they've allowed to manifest. And, it's crazy and it's happening somewhere like Pennsylvania. Right right. Now of all places, this may not work to their advantage when it comes to the polls when it's all said and done a rather voting when it's all said and done, but I'm so sick and tired it's never had anything to do with black lives and willing to bet the vast majority of the people. That involve no nothing about the shooting. They don't need a reason. All they look at that. This is opportunity to go jack stuff and we have politicians. We have other blue check marks all on social media that will authorize this bad behavior and he'll squirrel my basically saying, well, you've got this is stuff and you just have insurance as if that's the only thing there. is too big businesses Walmart got looted. Okay. As if there are people that aren't rich at work for Walmart than our managers at Walmart or God forbid people that actually shop at Walmart and get stuff from Walmart, and then you've now derailed that opportunity for them to go do that I am sick and tired of this and until we call it for what he is. It will continue to have because they're looking for reason, you're obviously very probably you're very vocal about this on social media and all your platforms. How does how does the black community treat you on this? Oh You get a lot of undercover folks who like Oh. I can't say that publicly man but I agree with everything it is. Get that a lot a lot. and. Then obviously, it's the other side who are going to sling those names and call say to on most of the races derogatory names that I've been called since I've been a political commentator has never come from conservatives has not come from the. Or anything like that. It is generally called from you a black person and you don't have to be a conservative. You're black person has not left this and they will call you every ugly name. It is that there is and but I I do believe that there are I don't even want to call them a solid majority. There's more people speaking out about this. Sort of behavior. There are folks that talk about this amongst their friends amongst the they see this stuff plays out in their neighborhoods and they like man that's not anything that I that I support I thought this is about justice I thought this is actually actually about saving lives and you'd be surprised how many black people have come up to me or message me seminar. Of what you say and I'm really really sick and I I didn't really understand it. But now seeing this play out, they can understand how how this is working. Chad I want to go to the second. I want to get your comment on Joe Biden addressed this and he addressed. To a bunch of people what he thinks this is all about tell me what you think of this. season. A protest is broken out all across the nation. Protesting though is not burning and looting violence can never be a tactic or tolerated and it won't. But much of it is a cry for justice for the period. Long had the knees of injustice other next. The names of George Floor Burana Taylor Jacob Blake will not soon be forgotten not by me not by not by this country. So he says that. He can he makes really half aid attempt to condemn the violence, but then says it's just a cry for justice. They got in trouble with this. The poll shifted the last time. They were this wishy washy on rioting and looting and violence. Obama one that had had enough sense to condemn it outright when this stuff was happening in. Ferguson I don't know why that they keep being wishy washy but at least Obama, all people had enough sense to be like that is not a good thing. You should probably stop doing, right Nothing's GonNa stop injustice unless you get honest about it and call it what it is I mean to your point i. kind of feel like it. Sometimes, they're like I need new shoes. Let's get village idiot over here to go over there and charged the police. He's already been the policeman called on him thirty one times it's May. So let's get him shots. We go gets a new TV. Like is that happened? No, but it's starting to look at this is to scripted like this is too scripted. We don't Walter around anymore. He threatened to kill his Mama. Anyway. So let's just send him after the police and that's what you see what the deal like this this pandering pandering pandering the sense of injustice imagine. To your point about burning down buildings and things like that Walmart let's say I just got out of prison and I, WanNa make something of my life. I'm ready to turn over a new leaf. I'm a part of this community and I went and got a job application. I filled it out I'm turning my life around I got a job at the Walmart guess what I don't have a job at Walmart. I'M NOT GONNA have a job at the Walmart Walmart is GonNa. Burn it to the ground right. So what is that doing me put it in perspective of the actual people who live that have some sense in these black communities in these urban communities not the guys that are running around here tearing everything down and break and everything apart because that is a subset of set right? That is that is not the vast majority of this community. And that's the thing that breaks my heart when I see stuff like this, there is no excuse i. You called for the defunding of the police in Philadelphia. So what did you have? You had police officers who were facing a threat. They didn't have TASERS Y. They've been funded. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. So what do you think we're we're mere days away from the election. Chad what do you think this does to do you think this I think based on I don't believe in polls I don't like them. I. Don't even want to think about it but I really don't. Look at the polls, trump's gained a lot of support in the black community. He's he's got a lot of folks who are out there You know folks that are far more in touch with the you and I are Eric. It gets a lot of feedback. A lot of our dear friends get a lot of feedback in that and I think there's a lot of folks out there that maybe they don't come out publicly but I think they're sick seeing stuff. They don't want to see their communities burned to the ground. I I. Think it was tennis Owens editing thirty percent black vote going. It's never before I don't think are you seeing that at all I? Think that he'll have more support than I? Think a lot of people will give him credit for because I think they expect that it obviously will go one way. Now, how much of a he's going get I don't know if it'll be high as thirty percent that's fairly high. That's very high but I would think. It'll be higher. Look a lot of have seen this stuff play out. We saw play out the first go around and it was like, yeah, you know okay. Trump racist blah blah blah blah Blah and then you move on past for years and that does doesn't carry as much weight as it did before then people start to see things with their own they start to see the party. Now. More than ever and what they're authorizing like. You cannot sit here and tell me some some mother. You know what? A main Oh married black family, right who lives in let's say this area can sit there and look at the city being burned to the ground and not think anything of it lies, right? No you'd be surprised you know talking about feminist it's not stuff that they would generally accept. But when you have politicians that are wishy washy on, it doesn't Bidwell for them. They're supported there's a limited we like I mean she'll be simple to say that. When, you when you got Van Jones who by the way, his further left my third testicle coming out and saying enough people giving Donald Trump credit. That's crazy and he's right just about two had a dump out to a commercial here. But I want to show because the the mainstream media has the way they cover this kind of cracks me up I was watching Fox was last night and They were showing everything that was going on from a distance zooming in you couldn't tell what was going on inside but blaze TV's was actually there I want to show you what he went through this up. Listen, to this podcast side from inside one of the buildings and. Looting. We see Elijah right there and. Getting attacks and Long. So you see the aftermath of that later alleged a video where you see his lip, it's all bloodied up, but I just wanted to give a huge shadow till I just shaffer and the brave people that are not going the way of the mainstream media and giving you this I know filtered version of the news. This is where it's happening. This is what's really going on. His wife's On our show tonight Chad breakthrough shows tune in and check that out and get her perspective as well back in. This topic now is painful do not WanNa talk about this, but it's so ridiculous. I think we have to talk that. There is now but an actor thank goodness it's been cast play Colin Kaepernick and his Netflix's bio series. Capper tweeted actually I never thought it'd be casting young mean a show about my life can you wait for the world to seep? To be an all star on that flicks. He goes on and starts talking about how the show's. Going talk about his life what was like as a struggling kid growing up in a mostly white Area with the white family and how everything was just so hard for him. Somehow overcame all that and became a millionaire multimillionaire in the NFL. How did he struggle? Eric how? How did he overcome? Why don't know world? They're gonNA take because it's the angle from what we from what I've known his life to be. It's going to be the most boring show. They could possibly. Yeah, it's GONNA be pretty pretty go not sure it doesn't get interesting until his antics after the fan. Growing up it's going to be pretty standard. Was No social justice issues or whatever what story would anybody care to hear or see or even tell about Colin Kaepernick I mean this ain't the doctor Ben Carson story right this. This isn't a guy who became you know rose out of the urban area with a with a single mom who who was that close to diner murdering somebody going to prison become one of the greatest pediatric neurosurgeons on the planet. This is calling Kapernick he's like he's trying to. Trying to rewrite up from slavery or something like that. He's like come on rose above my foot chopped off on the plantation. quarterback winning the world series triumph. Equivocally him to it's absolutely insane if it was so hard why did he become an activist before he started sucking in the NFL? Exactly. What should have done that when he was first string so Amazing. This whole story will I I didn't even know that was going to be a thing until I saw it and I was like wow. So Wha- angle are they GONNA? Say I imagine that it's going to be. With. A lot of. Biographies and by Biopic. They. Dramatize. Magin, there's going to be a lot of that like. it was going to be a niner's logo the sky. and. Gavin newsom is going to be there going to be like and I hate to call you in on this. It's GonNa. Be something because I don't know what in the world could possibly. Here Roy 'cause, they're making a big deal to him casting his young self like, okay. Like. Is this going to be what is it like a Sitcom like how is this going to work because he had a pretty vanilla actually way more privileged life then then the Mo-. Most of us had I grew up in a white family and achieve mediocrity to. His not being now. And I'm pretty outspoken. This there's this thing now almost like they're all they all feel bullied into caving into the Social Justice stuff and Colin Kaepernick fake social justice but they still believe we even get to this story but in Philadelphia Chick-fil-a they're they're store was ransacked even though they've gone the way of woke now and it does not work but they don't care but they feel like you're seeing it right now. This is the CHICK-FIL-A. This is what you got get out of there like Jelly. I guess. Some chicken nuggets that's that'd be getting their. Shoeshine. But it's like, yeah, go going woke go give. Man That's a waste. Tragedy absolute tragedy no no, it never works I. Don't know why while these companies do this and you see that you saw this having them with starbuck, all these other companies who they were throw a brick right? There I mean. I guess anonymous and really catch. It captures what's going on right now is the video that was coming out after the George Floyd. Marches and stuff like that where you had those white kids that were upstairs doing something and they're like giving them thumbs up praising all these marks and they got a break toss through their. Their Your son, that's basically how it works. They don't care. It's like looking at a pit bull that just ate a chicken and going now look this chicken loves you chickens on your side don't eat that chicken. This chicken believes in all dogs all dogs matter according to this chick. And then you turn that pit bull loose and guess what's going to happen. Chicken. Is Not on apologize for anything to apologize they're really going jump on your with both e- every every single, every single business that has done this. Come down badly on them I think it'll come down on Netflix's they're just getting worse and worse especially after that cuties. lost. So many subscribe in NBA and NFL numbers are you? Know People. This is why the phrase exists. Get won't go bro like why thing and we've seen this trending I. think it worked for a little bit but you're seeing pretty much everything across the board is just falling off cliff man people don't WanNa. See that stuff what's up marvel? Yeah. Exactly. Come more people. Watching. Certainly can't read read a book without this garbage. Sale and they're like, oh well, why why aren't the book? Did you see the guy who is suing his publisher because his publisher didn't call him out on some of the racist stuff he put in his own. He wrote, why did you let me put this out this Christ? Unbelievable man like these days of. Look it's GonNa get worse. I've said that it probably will get worse before it gets better but short term people can get away with this. That's how it works like with the NBA The TV deals for renewal yet it's when that stuff starts coming up for renewal when they start filling it on their the players not filling on. Salaries, and that's when Lebron James Teammates and stuff like making you like shut up like you're hurting. It's like Netflix's they got all of their subscription numbers during the quarantine period because everybody was stuck at home. So they got all of that will now after cuties came out, it's fallen off so bad they don't have subscribers even more I mean it's horrendous. I'm boycott the NFL for the first time in my life because I could not handle I was so hurt by them I still watch NBA even though they were worse than this, but I just will not watch NFL if I'm not watching NFL in the middle of a pandemic, that's when things are bad this. Business proposition on how mobile this weekend I have no emotional investment in anyways. Thank you mob bookie. oxypan. Yesterday's poll question. Have you voted yet? The majority? No, that's actually kinda surprising. I was seeing sane early voting already voted I. Don't know if you guys have you know I. You're waiting for. Actual Election Day. Air. Talk up so I won't be chilling like. Little small little small number. We. Took a poll. That was. ME. Today's poll is, should we repeal the section to thirty protections for Big Tech? That's actually really interesting Clarence Thomas is kind of opened the door looking at this a little bit. Do you think they should get Jack Dorsey said today actually the getting rid of that would end free speech on the Internet. You know I've got such biased opinions on that whole deal what are the border the poll what are the options again on that deal? It's far because I don't agree with anything Jack Dorsey. Stand off. Punching is not. Next Time Thanks for listening to the news and why it matters. We hope you enjoyed the podcast. If you'd like to watch the program become ablaze TV subscriber and start your free trial now at blaze TV, DOT com.

Joe Biden Hunter Biden Eric Philadelphia Donald Trump Senator Ted Cruz Chad Prater Biden Jack Dorsey twitter NFL Walmart Tucker Joe Jim Bohannon Netflix government
Mini jail overreach

The big d zone

07:45 min | 8 months ago

Mini jail overreach

"This is ridiculous after ridiculous after losing. If they did say did you did broke off. Route did you. I mean now older the reporter and people come to have on the thorburn number people. Did you see how many reporters out there and everyone garden? We are out of limited. No more that ten people and I thought Oh and it went to club pepe video that I just before coming onto the do the segment. I guess thought that had twenty or thirty reporter. Close to twenty or thirty reported in that role guarded. Nobody ten right. There was like few reporters and the name of the videotape within the watching the potent said pedantic class with PBS REPORTER. Twenty like close to ten to twenty reporters almo and it was all quote together then whether St Peter Part it was all together and an outside south the president could freely travel freely can play it for fun. Have many people at want to yet? We can't we have Unless it online recap funeral the wedding anymore unless online stable to yet ten fifteen or twenty reporters out there. The White House lawn well not the law but at the road gone identity twenty reporters all together. They want a total distance. Thing like was both east A ten feet. I'll tell you what at the governor's tell you the bridge do it. No not me. If the government told me to get the market obese but I do it no hell no I would not take the market. The be it. They told me not in my arm here either. I mean that is with the yesterday. He said that he is extended the coastal district guidelines but thirty day so actually does popey ending of the fifteen days spread the editor to stop. The Predator Corona virus and plus April thirtieth now will be forty five days of this mini jail and today. How many reporters do we say? Oh the way over to ten limit way over the tent. There was some of the front thumb in the middle when someone back what to separate the chair in the role guarding. You didn't have time because running late for the press conference. What did I where you put the president? I voted for you. I saw the video with my own. Partly plying is. I saw the video. I couldn't believe what I thought. And there you see all the news trending pedantic classes with reporter and it goes back and forth between the appointment of the auto reported that would there over the limit or limit. You could go over the limit but a but a Tampa Pat Pat. It's getting a have been arrested for going over. The ten. Ten people told me you can have over reporters and we can't have a wedding Kiro. We had to have over them. You throw over and if the car divers are Steichen right about now. What in the world do with game go through delivered? I'll tell you what day Yubari and broke up. Am I think they're going to delivery because people like me who are disabled had no way to get to a place to delivery the only way that we get get if I was able to throw my way to the crews poured even have to have a plane or doing pry data? You'll read the Pat but you can have twenty tap applauders threat to the Patter. But you have twenty different. Reporters Katina twenty reporters in a row guarded. That is not social. Distancing leaders lead people. Follow if you want us to do the right day you'll do the right thing. They by example that is not leading. What in the Hell Am I saying? I will try my best time. I darted to link the video in the segment. Does they mad? I couldn't believe what the hell did. I saw one report at so many reporters in Tokyo. Like I it was full. It was pull ten Tan. They arrested the Pastor. Tampa for beaten limit. And you can't arrest the whole. What did I see? I'm going to link the video. I'M GONNA leak the video until you can watch way tells. You don't have to work for it. You don't have to take my word for. I couldn't believe what I saw. We're supposed to have died but dependent outside. We can't travel but these dabble. We can handle more the ten thirteen twenty reporters so I guess we all got to run for president of the United States right each and every member country all had to vote for president of the United States. Right I know too late for that. Oh my God what are we doing? Why NOT STOPPING US? Predator Corona virus rally still on overreach. Overreach stay home for the outside. They'll travel on another state with the capital ship. Limited People Pitino twenty reported outside in a row gone asking the President Clinton and they're actually seen on the damn video actually seen on video. I'm Republican talking about this. Are you lead by a book on the Bohannon Show?

reporter president Pat Pat Tampa REPORTER Steichen thorburn White House United States Yubari Tokyo Bohannon editor Patter Katina Tan Clinton forty five days fifteen days thirty day
Use Whole Life Insurance to Avoid Estate Taxes?

The Money Guy Show

18:34 min | 2 years ago

Use Whole Life Insurance to Avoid Estate Taxes?

"There's a whole industry unavoidable. Estate taxes really scares a lot of people. We also do a case study on whole life insurance. It's gonna be fun. It's Brian Preston, the money guy, restoring order to your financial chaos, retired investing taxes. You got financial questions. He's got financial answers. It's Brian Preston. The money guy recently had a client who asked us to look at this whole life insurance proposal. I by the way, I know you're trying to light. Lettuce boss, always you did there. I saw the whole whole industry I'd like to because I know we talked about this. I didn't mean to do it. You're so good that you come up with quips and poem. Brain has the subliminal stuff that's going by the way. If you're just tuning in for the first time, this is the money got show welcome money, family, I'm mean host Brian Preston, Mr. Bohannon and check us out money dot com. But in all seriousness, we really did have a client who brought us. An insurance policy, a whole life insurance policy and said, hey, guys, had somebody put this in for me and tell me I really oughta consider it. Can you let me know your thoughts? I need you guys to check it out because there might be something here. So here's the thing. This policy was pitched as a growth vehicle. I kid you not a growth vehicle and you're gonna see why find that highly ironic as we get into this, is it valuable at all to share the field this client was in? He's in the medical profession. I mean, he's go watch this so growth vehicle through the cash value because that's how you actually get cash out of an insurance product is good, provide protection from creditors. I'm giving you all the brochure stuff, and then the client mentioned a state planning. Now what I can't figure out is, did the agent mentioned estate planning or is this something that the client just connected insurance products helped me with a state planning? And we all know that you had to look into your bed. If you're a person that's building assets because under the bed is the boogeyman of estate tax, right? I got news for you that boogeyman has lost his teeth. I mean, he went to the doctor. They pulled on everyone of his teeth, ending giving dentures. The estate taxes are completely different, and we'll get into that in a second. But I couldn't tell. If these bullet points were I wanted to help him out. I really did because so I went through and I wrote, I did a full analysis and that was like this analysis actually has some meat to it. It is ridiculous. I'm going to share this with his client and the whole money guy family could benefit from this. So this is this is going to be an overview of some of the bullet points share with this client. And then I'll tell you because you're going to see this on YouTube. You're listening to it through a podcast if you disagree. Because look, we don't dislike insurance. We actually are big proponents of our clients being fully insured, having protection, trying to make sure that there's nothing that derailed their financial life. So he's probably gonna be some contrary and people go see it lead us, some comments. We're perfectly fine with that. But let's jump into the bullet points we had I, it is expensive. I think that's the headline, right? I mean, that's that's the big headline with these products that are sold as mechanisms to build cash value. There's a substantial cost to them. I will tell you I have. Millions of dollars worth of life insurance on my life and my premiums, probably total a few thousand dollars. A few essay few means less than five. This client comes to us with an insurance policy protection was less than the coverage I have with my term policies and the premium was going to be thirty thousand dollars a year. That wasn't thirteen thirty thousand dollars a year. That's a huge multiple over what term insurance would cost that bothers for much less death, benefit coverage, thirty thousand. That's a lot of money. I mean, that's buying a small car every every so and then the here's the other thing. Slow start. Here's another bold point that I had made to the client was slow start this particular whole life policy. I'm not saying it's all a policy. I'm just going by the whole life policy that our reviewed for this client, the policies, net cash value did not break even until the end of year twelve. So if I'm sitting here and I'm thinking about this, okay, this is going to cost a lot of money cheer and I'm not actually going to be in the black until over a decade later. If you're looking at the cash value. Now, if the client. Full disclosure, if he died in your to get the life insurance proceeds, which will be a good thing, but you could ensure yourself much cheaper with term life insurance, but I can tell you it didn't have you tried to pull out the net cash value. So that's why when this was pitched to the client is a growth vehicle. That's why I raise my browser because I was like growth vehicles, get there lot quicker than twelve years. So how are they sold? I mean, obviously those two are like big banner, like red flags, but a lot of people buy these products. So here's the two things that I see people selling these products as they say, tax free, how many products will let you get access to this tax free. So when you hear somebody who's selling insurance talk about you get tax free withdraws, you know what they're talking about. They're talking about tax free loans. That's right debt. They're talking about debt. Now you're borrowing from your life insurance policy that I consider when you take a loan on your life insurance policy, it's almost like a blood oath. And what do I mean? I don't use. That word blood, very lightly. I mean the fact that the only way that you get out of that policy or that loan is you either have to pay back. We used to die with it and let the insurance proceeds pay it back. Because what I worry about is if you take this big loan say for kids college because I've heard it pitch for kids college. If you pay it for the kids college, you're paying it back over many years. But what happens if you're getting older, you're getting in your sixty seventies the cost of insurance real is these policies still have a cost of insurance is going on every year. What happens when you get older? The cost of insurance has gone up because you are older. Your cash value has been diminished or depleted because you bought paid for kids college with it. Dep- policy could blow up and create a huge tax Bill. I mean, did I miss an example in they're both the right if you have a loan in there and the cash value inside the policies, not large enough to cover the annual insurance cost. Then one of two things happen. The policy lapses in creates a huge taxable of it or to you actually have to come out of pocket to satisfy those premium premiums to keep the policy in place or three. I guess you could die, but that's not the option you want to go with obviously. And so that leads because here's what happens. Also, people set up these products, and I have seen cases where people instead of saving for retirement and doing these things and other products, they're doing these huge whole life policies. What happens when you get later in life and you get to that point in your life where you're saying, you know what? Let's let's change gears. I've met a lot of my needs. What if I want to buy that property, you've lost your flexibility because if you had a life insurance policy with a eight hundred thousand dollars of cash value and you found a house that was say, six hundred thousand dollars. If you went to take a loan for six hundred thousand dollars for a house or tried to just pull it out, you either have a huge tax Bill or you pretty much blow the policy. There's a lot of loss flexibility, but they pitched that tax free loan all the. On the other thing I hear people pitch because you remember this is a growth vehicle, even though it takes twelve years for it to break even because they talk about it's a guaranteed, stated interest rate, guaranteed interest rate built into this this product. So ak- it's safe. You can't lose your mind is a lot of people really nervous about investing for that two or three of the ten years that a market is because ten to two or three of the ten years of the average decade of investing markets might have down. Here's the other seventy years, predominantly good, but people are so scared of that bad period that they will buy products that are this causes much trouble for them. So be careful of that that that safety, because here's how they control your safety. Just like I talked about annuities on other shows with even with these cash value policies, they have surrender periods. That's not uncommon for the first decade that you had this insurance policy. You couldn't get access to your money unless you pay huge, huge penalty. He's in. Think about that. This is money that you're building. You're trying to build wealth. You're trying to have this. These funds available to you. What nine ten years from now you still can't get to it. You still can't use it. What if there's an emergency? What if there are medical expenses? What if there's colleges, what have you just unhappy and you want to vote with your feet, you're kind of stuck. And we've actually seen this recently. We've seen some surrender and this is for an actual client right now surrender fees as high as eighteen percent spread over a twelve year period. So it was like eighteen eighteen sixteen fourteen to all the way down to zero over the life that's just handcuffs. And here's what we talk about safety. I use the word safety with the air quotes is because you can take away a lot of the market volatility. If you can control the behavior for ten to twelve years is think about you don't hear about periods where markets were down ten to twelve years. You hear about a year or two years, maybe three years the market was down. If you can control the b. Behavior for ten to twelve years. It's very easy to offer somebody at three percent guaranteed, right? Overturn or four percent guaranteed rate of return. When you know you have control that money for ten to twelve years. Something to keep in mind when you're noticing guarantees, there's no free lunch. When you see somebody offer you a guarantee. So the other thing, here's another bullet point that I made sure to point out to the to the client is that you will be old or dead before you likely get any benefit. Is that really how you want to build your wealth? You want to not be able to enjoy it until either your heirs get to enjoy it or your we said, oh, because remember, takes twelve years for this thing to even break even and then we're dead you. So your heirs get the benefit. But once again, term insurance, because insurance for income replacement should be short term objective. If you're doing what's right money got family, you're building up your own asset, your own Dr dollar of army, your army of dollar bills that are going to start work. For you, you. So you're hoping your need for insurance to replace current income is going down as you become more and more successful. Okay. So maybe it's a growth vehicle, but but I did hear you say south that we need to be worried about a state taxes is that boogeyman this can help protect us from the boogeyman, right? This is really is like monsters Inc because you see all these things and you think it's scary. The final these guys are just having a party behind the scenes. They're not really as scary as they. They wanna be in what I say. This is because look when I graduated college and I started doing this back in the mid nineties estate taxes were scary thing about the estate exemption in nineteen. Ninety-seven was six hundred thousand dollars, and that's for an individual right for a couple. You can have total net worth of one point, two million dollars. If you're over that it would state tax code. You still had to structure it right. Because back then you didn't have these terms portability and so forth without setting up trust and six hundred thousand dollars legit because if you had to retire. Product. If you had a house that appreciate especially in these high cost of living areas. Like a lot of the metro areas, California, upper northeast. It was not uncommon to have real estate that would have appreciation that was pretty close to the lifetime exemption of six hundred thousand dollars. So the life insurance industry really was a boom on helping. I was actually I've even had clients who had tons of real estate and they had no liquidity. And if they'd had died, the estate tax would have eaten fifty to fifty five percent of that made them have to do fire cells. It made sense to go buy life insurance to cover that near what people have not kept pace with is that something's been going on with the state taxes. They were six hundred thousand, then they went all they kept going up. They were two million bucks. We were at here. Here's what I don't think most people realize in twenty eight teen in. Well, let me go twenty seventeen. I mean before it was a little over five million. Yeah, twenty eighteen now the exemption per person. Is eleven thousand one hundred eighty thousand dollars. So what that means is in order for you to be assessed estate taxes, you have to have a taxable estate greater than eleven million. One hundred even better dollars because if you and your spouse because now they've eaten added what's called a portability, meaning that if you don't use all of yours, your spouse can take your unused portion and a plot to there's so now does require if you want to actually institute this Puerto Bill yard to follow an estate tax return when you pass away a form seven oh six. But the number is now twenty two million three hundred sixty thousand dollars. I'm telling you that is truly rich. I mean 'cause six hundred thousand back in nineteen. Ninety-seven that seems like a decent so's wealthy sure not rich twenty two million dollars. You got some bucks behind you. So it's just not the same boogeyman that it once was because I mean, that's a lot of money in. It's one of those things where I. I don't know that you're going to have to go buy insurance to ensure against that because now you need when you have an estate of twenty two million, you're not buying life insurance. You're setting up trust doing all kind of estate planning that goes much deeper into the planning needs than just buying life insurance, and I do need to give the disclaimer this is set to sunset if they don't make this taking into twenty two million and twenty twenty-five. But that's a few years away. And I certainly don't know that I would buy a really expensive financial product for what may or may not be a law, you know, seven years from now eight years from now, let's plan for what's going on right now. So let's talk about because I always ID leave things with positive. So if we're not gonna do this, what can we do? What might be a better alternative for building growth? Because remember that's what this was pitched. This client was, so we're gonna protect you from creditors, but also we're going to have you a growth asset. So how can we get the same type of protection? How can we get creditor protection. But also have growth. What? What would you do go? Yes. So I think a pretty like base level one is employee retirement plan. If you have an employer has a 401K four zero, three b, four, fifty seven, and they offer a match by all means, go get the match that's free money. Then if you can't contribute possibly even up to the maximum eighteen five. If you are under fifty years old and they goes up to twenty four or five if you're over fifty. So those are the Orissa plans you named off all the ones that are covering that special provisions of federal law that says, hey, creditors your. We're going to give these things a little more protection because this is people's retirement money. So those are all protected. And I would tell you, I think that if you're looking for growth that is probably a better play than some of these other things not to say it's insurability and risk is still something to take into account, but growth ally, employer plans. Now, if we take out the, you're not as worried about the creditor protection, there's other things that you can do for growth like Roth IRA tax-free grow. I mean, if you want to add to put something on growth, let's talk about tax free growth. I love Roth, IRA's. We've done entire episodes on Roth IRAs. If you have a chance to go check it out, go check it out. Even if you're someone who makes more than what Roth laments might suggest you can contribute to. There are mechanisms by which you can still possibly build up Roth assets. And if you're someone who's really, really nerdy and you wanna go on the cool go Google mega backdoor Roth because there's an awesome opportunity there. And then the last thing you kind of closest thing after tax account. Here's why we like an look of these. This is probably the least sexy, but it has some great benefits is because after taxes, basically just like having liquid money. What I like is that you can have access at any point in time without having to worry about surrender periods. I mean, you don't have to worry about how they allocate gains. And then yes, you pay taxes along the way, but it can be taxed controlled. Especially if you have tax deferred accounts, tax, free counts like Roth, ending. You have these after tax. You can kinda manipulate. Things a little bit legally and then it's also your money. You're not borrowing from your life insurance. It's your money as powerful stuff. And then this provides unique opportunities where you can do. I mean, we don't love debt, but if you have a large chunk of assets bridge loans, there's marginally always have liquidity. There's ways to really maximize what you have going on with your investments. So think about these things guys, I get nervous when people are sold products because of fear from their soul products because of state taxes, you need to dig a little bit deeper to understand that. So thank you for joining us. I'm your host Brian, Preston, Mr. Bohannon and you guys probably know we love on you giving you this free content. This really is our gift to you. And the only ask we give, if you ever want to know how you can repay us for all this free content is that if you would, if you get to the point where it just like Bo was talking about, maybe you don't know about the mega Roth or maybe your ass. Have gotten to. This is where you're trying to figure out this whole avoiding. Should I pay state taxes? Should I have more insurance? Let somebody let us be the people that look over your shoulder. Take the relationship to the next level. We love working with our our listeners in the money guy family. So check us out. I'm your host Brian. You can go to money dot com. We'll talk to you soon. The money guy podcast is hosted by Brian Preston. Brian Preston is a principal with abound wealth management abound. Wealth management is a registered investment advisory firm regulated by the security and Exchange Commission in accordance and compliance. With the securities laws and regulations abound wealth management does not render offer to render penalized investment tax advice through the money guy podcast. The information provided is informational purposes only and does not constitute financial tax investment. The legal advice.

Brian Preston security and Exchange Commissi Mr. Bohannon Roth YouTube California Google Puerto Bill Bo monsters Inc principal Orissa IRA twelve years
#572 Why Youre Never Going to Find Your Passion

The Small Business Radio Show

52:55 min | 10 months ago

#572 Why Youre Never Going to Find Your Passion

"Get ready for all the craziness of small business. It's exactly that craziness that makes it exciting and totally unbelievable small business radio is now on the air with your host. Larry Mold Swell. Thanks for joining this week's radio show remember. This is the final word in small business for those keeping track. This is now show number. Five hundred and seventy two this episodes provided by next diva the all in one communications platform for your small business. It's also sponsored by linked in the place of Jerry leads drive traffic and build your brand awareness for free one hundred dollars credit to launch your campaign go to. Www dot lincoln dot com slash. Sb are it's also supported by visa. All you need to run your business in one software. Try for free at. Www DOT USC DOT com. That's V. C. I T. DOT COM and use buried ten for an exclusive discount. It's also sponsored by blue summit supplies. Get Your W. Twos ten nine tax forms that your business is required to file go to. Www blue summit supplies dot com slash. Sb ARE US. Espionage Code Ten espy are ten at checkout to save ten. Percents off your order. Well there's no lack of people out there telling you to go out there and find your passion dream really big but why does it seem like when we try? We often end up. Lost overwhelmed more than we were before my next guest. Want you to rethink everything you've ever been told about. Finding you're passionate following your dreams as she says you're never going to find your passion just the usual way let's four Komo. Hanan is the founder of Saco designs and the author of a Great Book called Beginners Pluck. Build your life of purpose. Passion impact now listens to the SACO store been featured in dozens of publications including Vogue redbook. Oh and Fortune Seko's appear national broadcast including ABC's shark tank and Good Morning America. Liz Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me on. I'm so excited to connect so your message is in a soul crushing one. Like forget about your passion. Just go to work. It isn't and you know I feel like over the last ten years Of building this international fashion brand that is creating community and opportunity for women across the globe sending the brightest female scholars in East Africa University. I disagree feel like I've earned the right to speak into this journey of what it means to build a life of purpose and passion and impact and I will be the first to tell you that it's that your work matters To build a life that you deeply feel connected to your values and your purpose and your passion and the impact you're making in the world is Can Be a difficult journey but it is so incredibly valuable and it's so worth it. I just have a few thoughts on how we actually instruct and encourage people to go about doing that but does everyone out there really have the luxury to follow their passion and their dreams or do some people just have to work and do whatever they can earn money and they got to give up the idea of really working with passion. I think that the idea that you're passionate is this singular thing that exists out there that kind of dichotomy that you just set up between people who can pursue their passion and people who can't is actually part of the problem. I absolutely believe that no matter where you are no matter what your You know financial constraints are or what your education levels are that by really harnessing and changing your mindset that you can start right now building a life of purpose passionate impact. That might actually eventually lead you to kind of a seismic shift in how you think about your finances how you think about your career maybe making a leap into something that you didn't see coming but it also might mean a renewed sense of digging in and kind of looming right where you're planted so what you're saying. Is that what you do for work or to earn? A living may not be the same thing you do to follow your passion your purpose. I think that for every person it's going to look differently. I think for some people we can figure out how to use those things and a thing that you are most passionate about can actually become your livelihood. I think for others at work is really sacred and it plays an important part of the story. You can infuse your work where you are with a sense of purpose and passion. That might actually free you up and enable you to build the life of passionate and other ways as well you talk about in the book. Beginners plug is passion is not a pre existing condition. I love that you know I I'm a millennial so I I'm on the I'm on the older edge of it that I have just seen really over the course of this last decade. How they're really kind of is the sense that you are You are passionate purpose person or you're not you're passionate. Is You know out there kind of in your dreaming and and you're waiting to discover it. You're waiting for that magic moment. That voice from God that perfect conversation with a stranger in the elevator that kind of unlocks or opens up the door. That will lead you to your passion. the reality is is that people who are Interesting people are interested. They're curious and they are doers. They do not sit and wait for their passion to be discovered and then jumped into the arena. But they have a deep sense of belief that like. I'm not going to discover my passion. It's not magic. It's not the lottery but by adopting a certain set of mentalities and mindsets I can go out into the world and today actively start building that passion you know when I graduated from college. I kind of I I think I succumb to that. Belief that it's like I just hadn't found my passion yet I hadn't discovered it. And frankly if you would've told me that where my passion lies is running a for profit fashion company. I literally would have laughed at you. I wasn't interested in business. I wasn't interested in fashion. I cared about humanitarian issues. The only way that I was able to go out and build this company in this purpose in his mission that I am incredibly passionate about is frankly because I was open to being surprised right like that. I said I haven't found it. I'm just GonNa go do the next best. The next right thing and that thing lead to one thing which evolved into another thing and ten years later here I am absolutely living out my purpose and passion so then when the worst things we can ask. Our kids is the question. So what do you want to be when you grow up because for me? I didn't figure out what I wanted to beats. Lows forty years old a hundred percent and what that does is it. Put so much pressure on the next steps to be the step right and so it's like we have less risk we have We have less curiosity because we don't have the sense that of course our purpose and our passion. It's this ever evolving things so in design thinking which is really a school of thought of thinking about how we solve problems one of the really fundamental mindset shift to thinking about the next thing might be quote unquote solution to your problem of what is your passion and purpose but most likely it's just the next iteration and if you engage in a way that is present and that is curious that you become a student and a Learner. You allow that to continue to evolve. I absolutely believe that you are more well suited to over the course of not just days or weeks but really years maybe even decades to build an incredible life of purpose and impact you sit in the book beginners. Pluck THE JEFF to go out there and embrace your inner beginner and I love that because so many of us are afraid to as I say begin again or or perpetually be a beginner because they feel after a certain point they should know what they WANNA do. Absolutely so you know there's four stages of learning you've got Basically unconscious incompetence where you don't know what you don't know it's Kinda have to lucky then you've got this stage of learning. The second stage of learning is called conscious incompetence. So this is when you're back in that stage of it beginner when you're like I don't know what I'm doing. I did more than I keep chew. I raised my hand and ask for more responsibility. And I don't know if I can execute on it and absolutely that is the stages of learning where our egos or the most fragile and when our insecurities really seem to rage and so a lot of us. Try to skip through or rush through that stage and eventually you know. Hopefully we get to a place of mastery or expertise but unfortunately what ended up happening. When you get to that place of unconscious competence of mastery and expertise. We actually start to live in a lot of fear of kind of losing our position on the top of that kind of mountain those that stair step back and what that ends up doing over the long haul is it keeps us from taking risks a keeps us from being really courageous and innovative leaders and absolutely keeps us from inspiring and motivating and giving other people the freedom to kind of embrace their enter beginner to go back to the beginning. And if you can whether it's just within yourself within your family within your company really create a culture of people who are willing to embrace their enter beginner where there is a level of Celebration that involves like. Hey you're learning. You're just figuring this out that you might fail and make a mistake. Congratulations because what that says to me. Is that you actually reached a little bit beyond you. Got a little bit uncomfortable. You took a risk and ultimately that is where all evolution innovation begin. Now you have a lot of ways for people to do this. You talk about in the book that you have to dream small right and I love that because everyone gives energy big green big. But you're telling people is that dream small. What's it about? I am and the reason that I'm doing that is because I just found that the message of dream big It's just actually not working. It's not doing what I think. We thought it was going to do. Which is you know motivate and inspire people. I'm seeing a lot of what's happening is it's creating a lot of fear in anxiety and serious analysis. Paralysis people are thinking about it. My Dream Even big enough and then they get paralyzed but I think he may be on dreaming. Big enough is big enough. They have the big dream. It really overwhelmed with the about what what is the actual for step instead of actually propelling them into motion. It's kind of leading to the sense of analysis paralysis that my dream isn't big enough. I don't even know how to start it. And so for those who are feeling a little stock or a little discouraged. What I really actually try to do is encourage people to dream small. Say like what is the. What is the big dream and then make it smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller until you actually do not have an excuse not to take the first step in that first step and that ability to say like hey this might not be you know the Big Bang Bang but it might just be the first step in the right direction actually is what creates a sense of competency a sense of Omega and eventually if we keep doing that if we keep having these small teams actually acting on that helps us create the momentum that actually eventually lead to the very big dream. 'cause I find that people have such a hard time making any kind of change in starting anything and if you break it down to the very small patient editor of small steps then at least you can get started. That's probably the toughest part is just a start. Absolutely the inertia that is against us just to start and you know the lives that we can tell ourselves that. I'm not good enough. I'm smart enough. I don't have enough connections. They don't have enough money. I don't have enough resources. I don't have enough affirmation from other people who don't even know what you're thinking about. That's a big one Is so paralyzing and so absolutely this idea that it's like you don't need to be great to start in fact like if you WanNa be great if you WANNA be competent if you WANNA create something. It just required that you start in competency and expertise. Those are all things that are built in process in motion. It's not something that you think you can get and then step into the next the next thing and you discussing the book that you have to choose curiosity over criticism and I find myself my own. Self criticism is really what holds me back from really exploring and pursuing my passion absolutely and I think one of the lies that people really believe in myself included. We think it's insecurity right of like I'm myself and I you know I'm afraid everybody else's like GonNa look at me and look at my failure. Be Critical of me and the reality is what we think is insecurity is actually an over inflated sense of Ego then I know that sounds kind of harsh but the reality is no one is thinking about you. As much as linking says he says it's not necessarily all about you bury rally even this idea that I'm afraid to fail because what if I found. What will people think of me that? No one cares if if people are thinking of You. I like the reality is like we're all just trying to get by. We are all thinking about how to pursue our passions how to get from our board meeting to the soccer game time. We're going to have for dinner how to take care of our aging parents. There's not that much leftover energy like no one is watching you step by step and your career and your metrics in your success in your failures and what. I hope that that does that inspire people to say like no one cares about you as much as you do feel like you have a sense of freedom to just go have fun. Go try go fail Give it your all because at the end of the day. That's who you have to answer to. You're the one who will lay in bed at night and say like I live in fear or did I take risks That I make mistakes but did I do that because I was being courageous and brave and I had the sense of belief that I could be a part of something bigger than myself. So what do you mean the book when you talk about owning your average is one of my favorite cons of again? It's it's not a good feeling that you're probably used to hearing and self help books or on instagram. But the reality is we have. This message has been perpetuated in our culture and probably just in the last several years that each and every one of us are so incredibly special that we're probably more talented gifted harder than you know. We think and we just have to really believe that about ourselves and then our potential will be unlocked. Well actually what the science shows us is that people that do that they're successful and believing that you know. They're smarter than they think. They are more talented than they believe. that actually does the opposite of what we want it to unleash us to go out into the world and create something new and innovative in meaningful. It actually keeps us in a place of fear what we WANNA do. We want to encourage growth mentality. Growth mentality is what really perpetuates us forward momentum and actually a key core tenant of growth mentality is that you actually don't have to believe that your special the reality is most of us are pretty average right like that's literally statistics. This is not this is how average works all those kind of hanging out there that eighty percent of the bell curve and once we own that we're okay with saying I might not be particularly God gifted or I might not have a particularly high intellect. That's okay that gives you the freedom to say like I'm GonNa have to work really hard to learn. Have to make mistakes. I'm going to have to lead in GonNa be really curious. I'm going to have to pursue mentor. Ship and the idea of owning your inner beginner that ideals of like yes. I'm a student and I have nothing to be ashamed of is actually the bank will allow us to brace bigger challenges and Take bigger risks because not spending so much time and energy to protecting our ego in our image of being. You know these special gifted people who are GONNA go out the world and immediately accelerate. Whatever they know my mom growing up always told me that. I was special. I was an excel as really make a difference in the world and I have to tell you is that was a lot of pressure and when I realized that Al. Hey I was I was not special. I was average. I could play a lot looser and I have a lot more fun absolutely. I love that and I love it. That your experience but it's just like and it truly therapy to well. I'm glad that I I'm glad that you got there and I'm glad that you're sharing that story with other people because honestly that's what we see specifically with kids. You know there's really interesting social science around the difference between what happens when you look at a child and you say you're really smart. You did really good. What ends up happening. They did it. They did a study where kids took a test and teachers praise them for being inherently gifted and smart and then they let them decide what their next assignment was in the kids that were praised for being smart or the kids that were praised for being hardworking teacher looked at their test and said like you know what I can tell that you didn't give up when maybe other other kids would have instead of being praised for their inherent giftedness or elector talent. Those kids ended up in the next assignment thing. Give me give me the more challenging assignments. That was kind of fun. I worked really hard. I got noticed for that versus were praised for being really smart or talented chose the less challenging excitement area because because they want they want you have that belief and planted into you like. I'm smart. I'm talented you don't WanNa do anything that could cause that to come into question right and then moreover even more excitingly. I think not only does the kids that were praised for their work Edgar problem-solving our city chewed the more challenging assignments. Then the kids that were paid for their intellectual or you know talent they actually performed better on the next assignment that sensitive like freedom and like I want you know just try and I want to fail and I want to like get ready and and and keep trying maybe when other kids are actually the thing that propel us toward success in the long run will lose. I love the book recommending all the listeners. Pick up the book this weekend. Cancel whatever you're GONNA do read this book instead and you have a lot more fun and really a renewed sense of what you WanNa do with your life. It's called beginners plot. Build your life purpose passionate impact now. Liz where can people get in touch with you or see what you're doing? Yeah you can check out my company which is Saco designs that's S. S. E. K. O. DESIGNS DOT COM. And on all the social media. And you can find me on social media as well ask Liz Bohannon. I'd love to connect you can pick up the book. Wherever books are sold Barnes and Noble Amazon. Your independent bookseller But really appreciate your time lose. Thanks so much as Ama Twenty in Chicago. We'LL BE RIGHT BACK. Time and place is everything especially when it comes to marketing but in today's age of a million messages permitted and not enough hours in the day. How do you really catch people's attention? Fortunately there's a simple way linked in can help you speak to the right professionals at the right time with over sixty two million decision makers on Lincoln. You're able to connect with the right business. Leaders are relevant to your company and Lincoln ads. You can make sure your messages are getting through to these relevant people. Even small businesses are making the most of Lincoln ads. They're using linked in to get their voices heard and their messes to resonate with the audience. It's not just about awareness either. Lincoln ads or driving traffic and engagement. Where that's visits to a landing page registrations to an event or downloads thought leadership piece because with precise targeting small businesses can speak to the people that matter the most at the end of the day. Lincoln ads are helping smaller businesses. Get BIG RESULTS. Tried for yourself. Lincoln is offering a free one hundred dollars. Lincoln add credit to launch your first campaign simply go to. Www dot lincoln dot com slash SB are that's www dot. Lincoln dot com slash SB are to claim your free hundred dollar ad credit terms and conditions. Apply you've already upgraded your cell phone to a smart device which let's use the Internet to be more productive on the go but what about your desk phone next. Tiba is a smart business phone system in the cloud with a simple setup through an internet connection. You can soon have access to your office. Communications wherever you are stay. Seamlessly CONNECTED WITH CLIENTS IN. Stay more mobile than ever before with just one low monthly cost. Give Your Business More than just a basic desk phone visit. Mex- Tiba DOT COM or call. Eight hundred seventy nine nine zero six hundred to learn more today neck stephe simplifying Your Business. Communications stick around to get your small business unstuck more of small business radio with Berry Moles now. W CPT h twenty. Chicago's Progressive Talk. Well I believe that one of the technologies that will affect your business every day this year. He's artificial intelligence. Ai Hit explain how it will impact. Your Company is Chris. Duffy who spearheads adobe creative cloud strategic development initiative partnerships across the creative enterprise space kristen has been profiled in the Wall Street Journal The Guardian Ad Week Cheddar and the mirror. He's author of a great book. It's called superhuman innovation. Chris Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me I give us your definition of what a I is or what artificial intelligence is when it comes to business. Sure you know. I'd like to think of it. As it is a tool of service to humanity so that goes across all industries all aspects of businesses large and small in it essentially artificial intelligence runs and is powered by data and that data artificial intelligence opens up A world of possibilities so imagine being able to work lasts and live a more prosperous life going forward so it's quite exciting We're just on the cusp of This new era not only of artificial intelligence but also this golden age of creativity because in many ways. That's going to unleash This new era. Because it's going to get a lot of the grunt work. A lot of those repetitive tasks out of the way to allow us to do higher level critical thinking complex problem solving and ultimately innovation and invention so a lot of consumers and business folks when they think of artificial intelligence. You know they're thinking of Siri or Alexa or some kind of bats answering their messages or you know. They want to watch that movie her again. Which Scarlett Johansson is that? What is you bring up a great point to in many ways? Artificial intelligence machine learning deep learning is a bit of a suitcase word in the sense that it has multiple meanings multiple applications Essentially it can be broken down into a number of different aspects cognitive computing and image recognition. Smart robots deep learning The list goes on and on human machine interaction but essentially again it goes back to the point that it is a tool and application in many ways to allow businesses to unleash and amplify their capabilities. So like Gemma squad flip it on its head and talk about. What are the challenges? What are the friction points? What are the objectives that have businesses trying to achieve and years? The tool that allows those businesses or those individuals to cheat but Second coin brought up Hollywood. And I think you know how it goes to the credit of Hollywood on the power of storytelling And in many ways We refer as humankind refer to artificial intelligence to those terminator ask type of applications but in reality a in in in modern sense in modern terms. Ai Is narrow a meaning. It is a task driven application rather than what is represented in in movies quite often. It's super super intelligence which means or refers to this system of technologies that is so infinitely intelligence that we as humans can't even comprehend that that's pretty far out there if that's ever even capable where when we talk about Artificial intelligence in today's business landscape where we are in fact talking about narrow intelligence into your earlier point one of those aspects is You know voice assistance so when you rode superhuman innovation you actually had an a I to assist you in writing the book. Tell us about that. Sure and your fellow author A much much more accomplished than I am I think. How many have you written five six bucks? My wife has read any of them. So it's okay I live with you. What am I going to read the books for from but you know it so you know you know so well it is a. It is a big task to undertake writing a book and so used the book almost as a proxy or a metaphor for how artificial intelligence can Be applied and and its impact on the business world. So yes you. Hey I as almost a CODA author in a sense and carry out the the word co-authored because I think we tend to apply human aspects or characteristics to a and a I is not Human it's a machine but because of lack of characteristics to apply In this case applied human characteristic is a CO author so there were three levels of the application of AI in the book the first one was voice recognition and that was all about You know continuous dictation or voice to text interface or vice versa. So that was kind of the the first layer of just this human machine interface. The next layer up was a I content understanding and summarizations and essentially what that means is that used to help really summarize and Have greater understanding at speed of content at scale and then the the highest level which is Probably the most exciting and we see it quite often in the news Most recently is the generation or N. L. U. L. P. and G. in the sense that it is actually generating content and I think we're just on the cusp of Of that Application we hear a lot about like open a is system elmo and Bert which are Dialogue language models that can now be applied in utilized for a number of different use cases. So those were the three layers were elements of the application of AI as that co author air quotes For for the book well then of course every I has. Its Name Right. Because we do have answerable morphism right. We put humid while he's a thing. So what was your name? Yeah so use the name. Amy which was You know two parts one for a I plus me and again referencing symbolizing. It's not human versus machine but human plus machine and when you have that mindset and application of human capabilities plus machine capabilities. He really can't unlock You know extraordinary things together so it was a small business owner Chris. What ways should I be looking at to leverage an AI? Applications inside my business inside the Business Environment. Sure as we talked about before there's so many applications to a Sense of Applying it to manufacturing logistics. My area of expertise in background is what happens when he bring human creativity along with technology like ai specifically for content creation and production at scale. So that that's what Heavily Adobe is focused on computational creativity experienced intelligence and content understanding so I would urge you know small business owners to really take a look at the huge opportunities that they have literally at their fingertips in terms of amplifying their voice and presence Through these greatest channels that humanity has ever seen to amplify their awareness and create great experiences for their customers and bring service and value to their customers at scale. So does that mean that we have to make sure that we have applications that work on Alexa and Siri that our voice assisted or create our own inside of our business. What form does that take Chris? Sure Yeah I think Again voices one application. I think probably one of the big driver in in the sense of Customer Service Bops and now with those applications Conversational dialogue capabilities is a huge opportunity. As maybe a first entry point for the brand or the business and the customer To do that initial diagnosis of how The business product can be of service. So that's one application but there's also a number of now you can create more content at scale faster and quicker than ever before and distribute that for more Personalized experiences and I think that is quite exciting. Both for the customer but for the business as well and it almost creates this infinity. Loop printing a better symbiotic relationship between the business and and the customer and of course the personalized experiences so important because as I said previously no one really wants to buy your stuff your service and they more they wanna have a customer experience authentic experience and the more that you can personalize it the higher chances that will actually happen right. Exactly you know united the audiences in really I think the the holy grail going forward that being said the technology Is Getting so advanced? I I think we're now seeing You know culturally and even across the the business dialogue is just because you can do. It doesn't mean you should so I think businesses are finding the sweet spot in terms of not only personnel sation. But what is that ongoing Dialogue In a respectful in ethical Way looks like so You know much like any human to human relationship there there's a respect and there's You know in a deeper understanding of How much is too much? So I think that's a a sub subtexts that we're seeing going forward as well back to your earlier point. There are a couple of different applications for small businesses. A I encourage everyone to look for products that have a audience edit into them So there's many out of the box Products that they can leverage Depending on what problem they're trying to solve but there's also API's out there that can be customizable through their needs. And even over the last few years you don't need a data science science background To leverage those API. So I think those are probably the two primary aspects to leverage. Ai Look FOR PRODUCTS. That have a Embedded incident but also look for. Api's that can be customized for your specific needs. Chris. What about some of the privacy concerns? I mean whenever I'm traveling. My wife always turns off. Alexa because Alexis always listening. I I kind of like that because I can interface with an I say her just with natural language. What are the issues around that we to be concerned about? Sure I think I think it's a very important conversation that we as a society are are having in terms of not only a I but also the data privacy aspect and we're seeing you know over the last few years a greater focus on the GDP in Europe now California has a recent new Law Regulation about the right to know For companies to to know what data companies have That for from you so I think Back to finding that balance. The conversation is now around Not only conversation but the the policy making his now around whereas the right balance to have safeguards to not only secure your data but the right to know your data but Not Go so far that it stifles small businesses or large businesses in terms of innovation and invention. So I think that's a ongoing conversation That we're having currently there's some new technologies out there that are coming almost from a side view similar to like Eh J I where some of the those privacy concerns are now being addressed because with edge none of that data leaves an individual device per se so Instead of it going up to the cloud or to server it all stays locally on your phone and with a j I combined with like five. There's now that computational power to do it all locally which addresses some privacy concern as well so last question I wanted to ask you was how is going to impact the kind of folks and I'm going to hire for my business because some of the I guess the grunt work the more basic tasks the more manual tasks done by. What's left for everybody else? I think you know we've had this Analysis on technology and and we've seen some of the greatest innovation and job creation over the last hundred years or so during the last Revolution of industrialization. And so what we see. Is IT ACTUALLY UPLIFT? Technology up. Lips uplift human society in Human Creation. In the sense that again it gets that grunt work repetitive tasks out of the way to allow humans to do what they do. Best and again. It goes back to that higher level critical thinking complex problems all been in. What's Near and dear to my heart is creativity. How can humans now be freed up to do those three things? And that's what. Ai and technology has done in. We'll continue to do so. How far how far are we from having Scarlett Johansson on my iphone? That's a great debate If that was an indication of intelligence I think very far out there but in the very near term. We're seeing In quite excited about Assistant at Adobe were working on creative assistance really being powered by you know the the advances in the Ganz in the cans which is generative art visual art in also those NLP's an analgesic And so we're seeing those I think assistance will continue to get more savvy but again they are machines they don't have consciousness We will see a reflection of emotion and understanding of emotion but they they don't inherently have their own emotion or consciousness By themselves ultimately to they are machines so it sounds like not too soon so this time. Maybe she won't leave me. Chris. Thanks for me. I'm a show. You want to reach Chris Chris. Duffy D. U. F. F. E. Y. Dot Ai this is Ama twenty w cpt in Chicago. We'll be right back tune regularly to my show. Then you know that I talked to many different businesses across the country different types of people different backgrounds all kinds of industries. But there's one thing that unites all of us. 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Talk with all the changes in the economy and the presidential tariffs what is the state of small business in Rural America? My next guests is the best expert in this area. Beckmann crazy lifelong small town entrepreneur as co founder of. Save Your town. She shares insights from her real world experience as a business owner in cal- rancher. Her practical perspective is featuring award winning Book Small Town Rules which actually co authored with her her commonsense views have been quoted in the New York Times. She makes her home in hoped in Oklahoma. A community of thirty people just a little bit small Chicago. Becky welcome back to the show. Thank you so much. It's good to talk to somebody from a little bit better exactly exactly larger perspective. We'll use this whole survey of rule challenges in two thousand nineteen. What did you find? Well we found that rural people are not thinking about the same things that maybe you read about in the paper. So you know the media. Stereotypes don't really match up with what people are talking about. So if you're thinking that it's GonNa be poverty and drug abuse and like businesses can't find loans. Well that may not be exactly what we're all people themselves are thinking. So what do you think? There is such a divide between urban and rural and what we think. Each other are thinking. That's a great question. The reason that we're so divided is we don't read the same stuff right and so we're reading different media. We have our own little views. So that media bubble and then when a reporter from say a slightly larger town decides to go report on a small town they parachute in and they arrive at the local coffee shop at two o'clock in the afternoon and they look around and go. Who's hanging around here that I can talk to. And they talked to the crabbiest old dogs that are hanging around the coffee shop at two o'clock in the afternoon because they don't have jobs retired. This may not reflect everybody's viewpoint. I've seen that movie. So what are small town business owners thinking about these days? What's important to them? Well the first challenges that they talk about the number one challenges. Maybe when you're familiar with in in the big town can't find good employees. That is absolutely the number one choice and and I understand it now of course in a smaller town. Do you have a smaller labor pool so it makes sense the second challenge the second top challenges. Marketing isn't working. And you'd think everybody knows everybody in the small town but no actually. It turns out that we have trouble marketing. Even in a town of you know a few thousand people. It's still a challenge to get your word out. So let me go back to employees for a second becky. So aren't people in small towns. Doing what other companies are doing and sourcing their people everywhere. I guess I guess if you have a retail business. That doesn't work. You can't hire someone in Kansas to a retail store in Oklahoma. But is there la that going on it depends on the company the younger the company that you know? It's something that somebody started recently. They're far more likely to be using every kind of APP service and automation that replaces the need for people as well as using online remote workers from wherever you know freelancers that they can hire you know all over the world so the younger the company. The more likely they are to be doing that. The older the company if it's a thirty year old downtown retail business. They're probably doing very little of that so interesting. Because I find that a lot of people are moving out to less urban areas because they can hire people from all over absolutely and like I say we see that in in the younger firms that are being founded right now like people are building million dollar businesses. That have Y- zero employees but there have a whole bunch of workers. They're just not all in one town. There was a guy in clay center. Kansas who ran a software firm and his support staff were in Europe and Australia wrong contractors and then that gave him full time spectrum coverage so he can serve his global client. Twenty four seven. I was really surprised by your number. Two about marketing. I would think that marketing would be a lot easier in a small town and because you know who everybody is and it's a little bit more you know exactly what you're trying to attract would seem that way wouldn't it like we should know exactly you know. And there's only we're only in a small geographic area but the more that you are You know everybody but you still only have a limited number of choices for media right. The newspaper just does not work the way it used to small time. Business used to be able to place to add in the newspaper. Boom sales doesn't work that well anymore and so business owners that are in established businesses. Have been trying to figure out this facebook saying and like. How do you make that work? And so there's there's a wide range of technical skills. Obviously but I think I think it has to do with the diffusion of the audience away from traditional media. And so it's just become more work to reach the same people. What about online competition? You hear all the time that people would rather buy from local businesses than by from Amazon. And I think a lot of people just want to buy from Amazon. Because it's easy. Are you finding how our local businesses surviving that that was in fact that was in the top challenges? This year It it dropped down last year but it bounced way up. This year is like the third number. Three of the top challenges is that people buy from online competitor. So I find it interesting that it has fluctuated. We did the survey in two thousand fifteen twenty seventeen twenty nineteen so it was interesting to me that it has really popped up in the last two years so I I think that realistically we see the more rural you are the the more you rely on online shipping. Right you just. You're waiting for packages to come to the house. As opposed to going out and getting something and I think that's going to continue to increase of course as the share the the total share of the market that goes to online. That's GonNa continue to happen in small towns as well but it's also something that rural businesses have the most leverage to be able to address in terms of being that kind of quality local connected business that people want to shop at. So I think we've got kind of two competing trends there but the net result is businesses. Say It's a big challenge. So you use the worm locally connected and I think that's really important. What have you found? Best Practices for small town. Business become locally connected absolutely. I think the key thing there is that you talk about. What makes you different like you have to use all of the media? That's available to you so you have to connect where people are in that includes facebook instagram. Where you know I know a personal trainer who is using snapchat really effectively to reach a local market. So you've got to use those tools but then say that personal trainer. What she's doing is she is building a personal connection. She's doing super short videos. And she's showing how she's a real person someone they can actually talk to and then additionally besides that personal connection then it's a big opportunity to have those local products that are not available elsewhere. This has made locally. We sell it locally. You know the person who made it and then talk about the causes that you support because local businesses and small towns are huge supporters of the community. So if you are supporting the kids sports team you need to talk about it all over your media. There's maybe a little bit of tendency not to blow our own Horn in rural areas. We WanNA WE WANNA be quiet about that. Do Good but be quiet about it. But that's a generation ago like now is the time to talk about the good. You're doing in your community. You know one of the things that we talked about in our book was that we really felt that making personal connections was really pioneered in small towns and now I always say that you know people no Longer Jill. Just want to buy your stuff or by your services. They want to have some kind of experience doing that. That small town somewhere along the line. Get away from that you know. I think that just as the pressure of everyday life has made all of us more focused inward into our own family and our own tight knit group and we have less connection to community. I think that that is actually happening. In small towns just not as much as it is in the big cities. I think that I think there's still a stronger sense of community and we still have this mindset that we're we're a connected community. The good news is the generation. That's coming up the JIN's e-group wants to be connected to community in small towns. They have a much stronger is to be part of what's going on and to build those personal connections so it's something that's going to kind of make this generational cycle as we come back around and it's something we can all work on and I and I hear people talk about it so I know this is top of mind for people. What about shifting a business hours you finding that people you know people work all sorts of different hours now? Is that changing? What time people are open? That's a real challenge for businesses. Now on the survey they were telling us that they have tried later hours. And it's just not worked well for them and I think I think that I can understand this My own retail store that I had up until a year ago. We were opened ten. Am to nine PM Right. Like this gives an opportunity for everybody to come in but it was a liquor store obviously around later. That's when our people come but what I noticed in my business and I think this is the key that makes the difference for later hours. The evening crowd is a different crowd than the daytime crap. Now you can picture that in a liquor store. The guys that are coming at ten. Am than people that. Stop off after work so you have to think about that applies to every single business. You have to master the fact that at a different time of day you're pioneering entirely different market. You may need a different product. Mix You may need different. Displace you need to change the Vibe of your store and think about it almost as opening a whole new store instead of just thinking. Oh I'll stay open later because that's like the lazy way to do it and you will not see good results that way. It's interesting because you see a lot of stores especially in urban areas. They're just not stores right. They also serve food or they'll have music or something like that and as you said the vibe changes during the day and I'm sure that's based on the shoppers who are coming absolutely and I see this in smaller towns as well. Smaller cities micro poyton cities. Small towns. I do see a lot of those multiple lines of business which is another one of our small town rules. Is we see the businesses that are doing lots of things and I think that that helped then to adapt to different hours as well so one of the things that's really dividing. America really is politics right now and you're finding that companies are taking sides consumers or taking sides. Do you see that in small towns or it's more monolithic because you're just in a remote rural area. Boy that varies a lot because small town. Some of them are in very conservative areas and some of them are in for more progressive areas. And so there's a there's a tendency to say all of them are on you know it's a Red America but it's not really true because small towns kind of run the full spectrum. But here's what I've seen as I get out and travel in towns. I'm seeing very little of that. Where businesses take aside politically I see a lot of individuals taking sides politically but I also see even within the register town and let me tell you I live in the richest county in the red state Even here there is a broad spectrum of political views and so people I think just out of respect for each other tend to be maybe just a little bit scaled back from the guys that get interviewed on the media most of the two confederate flags on their truck and they you know they're out there being completely way out there. I think that regular people are in general a little more respectful of each other. That's what I've seen when I've been surprised as I've gone to trade shows that are really targeted more conservative segments. I've actually seen on the trade show floors people wearing Maga- hats and people having posters of trump. And things like that and I've never seen politic- politics on either side at a trade show and so that's why I was just wondering if If you really do see that I've seen that as a tree at a trade show as well I went to a hunting and safari trade show and there was quite a bit of politics there And I think that's because hunting and and safari is an identity that people have but in terms of of what I see actually out in communities. There's very little of that and it's mostly by individuals and not by businesses. And I think I think that's a good sign that out there At the base level where we built community the fact that we connect to each other as human beings in a respectful way is extremely important to the future of our communities. And so if we lose that where we've got a lot of work to do to regain it and stop seeing all those things on twitter. That's what I say. Yeah absolutely like twitter is a is the worst place to take up your politics of it. So becky where can people get a copy of the survey and get in touch with you? Absolutely you can go to save your dot town slash survey And it's all right there. There's the links to all three years that we've earned the survey you can get the full set of data. I remember when we were writing. Small town rules together. You came to visit up in Chicago and you were so amazed at the houses. Were so close together. You could touch both of them. I still have that picture. I now and I tell you what. My house sits on. Three quarters of an Acre exactly a little bit different so I want to thank everybody for joining this week's radio show. We gotta think our sponsors next diva the all in one communications platform for your small business. Also WanNa thank linked in the place to generate leads drive traffic and build your brand awareness for free one hundred dollars credit to launch your campaign go to www dot lincoln dot com slash. Sb are also sponsored by visa. All you need to run your business in one software. Try for free at. Www DOT visa dot com. That's VC. Use. The code buried ten for an exclusive discount sport by blue summit supplies. Get Your W. Twos antenna nine tax forms. That your businesses required by going. Www that blue summons supplies dot com slash. Sb are use. The code espy are tend to save ten percent at checkout thanks. Incredible staff are booking producer. Sarah Shafran our in studio producer Lady Recording Gilchrist. If you're serious about being more successful this year you gotta give me a call. I've said a private line. Seven seven three eight three seven eight two five zero or email me berry. Mulch DOT COM. Remember love everyone. Trust a few and pal your own canoe have a profitable and passionate you can find on the web at Perry moltes dot com or more episodes of small business radio and small Biz radio. Show DOT com.

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Episode 2: How Conscious Culture Impacts Your Bottom Line with Adrianne Court of Alkami

The Be Atento Podcast

27:49 min | 9 months ago

Episode 2: How Conscious Culture Impacts Your Bottom Line with Adrianne Court of Alkami

"Hi everyone my name is. And welcome to the latest episode of Via Tinto Helpful Tips and stories from some of today's most successful entrepreneurs and investors. Be Tinto is brought to you by Tinto Capital Tulsa based venture fund focused on driving returns through early stage, venture, investment and local economic development and job, creation. So is Spanish for helpful, careful, thoughtful, conscientious and polite, as we seek to embody these characteristics tall our stakeholders. Today. We're excited to welcome Adrian. Court to the PODCAST. Thank you so much for joining US Adrian. I'm excited to be here. Thank you for having me awesome. So just to get started would love to hear a little bit more about yourself, and about alchemy and what you do. It helped me great great, so let's start with alchemy what we do so. Just from a very fundamental easy way to explain it, we do digital banking, so you probably most likely do your banking via online and mobile APP we create that for credit unions and. Kind of next year banks not the Big Bank of America's etcetera, and we help them remain re relevant in their communities, particularly with a credit unions, they're nonprofits and helping them remain connected in their in their communities. Alchemies, actually the fanatical spelling, the word alchemy Al C., h. e., m. y. so matter, magical chemical transformation, and so for us it's creating taking ordinary elements such as fire, water, wind, and earth and creating. In Alabama sexually believe you could do that, and you can convert lead into gold for creating the gold standard experience for our clients. We're one of those fun success stories. We just celebrated ten years last year. Founded by a gentleman from Oklahoma actually Oklahoma City Stephen Bohannon. We're now five hundred twenty-five alchemists. We have about one hundred and fifty clients, and over eight million users on our platform so pretty exciting I'm actually the head of HR and culture, for Alchemy and really fundamental to our success is our. Intentional conscious commitment to our culture and promoting and protecting that in our clients actually make the final decision to purchase alchemy because of our culture. Our sales team will say ninety eighty five ninety percent of their final decision is culture and when you think about while they're buying like a digital platform. Like how cool is that right so hopefully that tells you a little bit about us and what I do alchemy awesome. Thank you so much. I'd love to hear you. Just talk a little bit more about how culture plays this important role in alchemy success so I know every company's a little bit different in. We're a technology company were SASSO. Service Company. And we're a little bit different in that our client contracts six and a half years so most SAS technology companies may be eighteen months to two years so ours is six and a half from I won't go into the nitty gritty detail why that is, but it's a very important decision. It's a one of the primary platforms client. Uses and in terms of connecting with their customers, so when they are making that decision who they're going to be hanging out with as their digital provider. They want to understand like who they're connecting with in. Who's going to be my partner for this long period of time it's not like hey, well, if I made a mistake in a year and a half or two we can. Can Change, you know they really need to understand who the WHO we are, and then also primarily our our clients, our credit unions regional banks, so they are very intent in terms of how they connect with their community and their culture, too, so they've really look in terms of who their partners are, but really the other thing is attracting and and retaining incredible talent. You know so. But with those two things, it's pretty important. I'll give you one example and we have one of our original clients. She joined us, or they were credit unions, one of the first for us, and she was recently promoted to see over credit union, and she reached out to us, and said Hey. Can I spend a day with you guys at Alchemy like we'll sure she was I'd like to. Get a little more understanding about your culture, and how you promote and protect it like well great, and I said wow, that's kind of interesting. She's actually out in West. Virginia were were based in Texas and she says. I said well. That's really interesting you whether you were twenty, five, one, hundred, one, hundred fifty now over five hundred alchemists, your culture has remained consistent, and has now I becoming CEO of my organization I want to be able to do the same so. Well, that's a huge testament to what you are doing. Do you have any tips for early stage entrepreneurs as to how they can be very intentional about building out a positive and strong culture within their businesses, absolutely so just a quick note I am writing a book. It's called conscious culture how you think acting connect to inspire uncommon business results. and. Let me just talk about kind of a startup. Year are passionate about whatever you're designing building selling that commitment and You may have kind of those first clients or customers whatever you're selling your terms your product, and as you're starting out, you know who and what you want to be. But as you begin to grow, add employees or partners. That can be lost pretty quickly, so when I talked to. Early stage, high growth, and even mature companies think it's I fundamentally understand what culture is because sometimes you think Oh, it's this warm and fuzzy thing, which is a good thing. It doesn't really make a difference. For me, I think it's very tangible. It's how you think. Act and connect so think is the word you. To, express who you are as you started. You kind of described how you express your organization right so from that fundamentalist the words you used to express culture very important, then the act are the things and behaviors that you do. To reflect that culture, so if things are consistent, they align right so for example at alchemy trusted. Accountability is a very important element of our culture will trust accountability to US means doing the right things always. Sharing our knowledge and expertise, so if we're afar, executives are someone's doing counter to that right then we're not aligned, but really most importantly is if you're a thinking and actions are consistent. That's going to be reflected to your customers and community. They're going to know. So, if you are treating your employees, your partners consistent with what you want like caring in terms of your culture, that should naturally flow to your clients and your communities who you're selling with or doing with so. I'm love to use an extreme example and. Putting politics aside, but Chick-fil-a I. Think is a phenomenal. Example of an organization that has remained true to their culture from startup to today the it's my pleasure. Culture were always going to be closed on Sundays. The, it's the experience. And you say yeah, Yeah Adrian, you know so, what? What does that mean well if you look at their average revenue per store? It's double. The revenue of their next peer which would be McDonald's. Keep in mind that chick-fil-a is closed on Sundays. open less. Pay Higher Wages. And by the way they just sell chicken. In fact, I mean some people say might be the greatest chicken in the world. But all their competitors still chicken in fact, if you go into Chick-fil-a I, buy a sandwich, it doesn't even have lettuce and tomato on it right so when you think about that. They've created this connection with their community. I heard a statistic that for every franchise that is open. They have over sixty thousand applicants interested in the franchise. And when they look for potential franchisees. They're not looking for someone who says I WANNA, make this huge profit, and I wanna like chicken. They're looking for folks I want to build a leadership development. Kademi in my community and I'm going to be doing that through my stores right so. I know that's an extreme example, but a very important one, and you can look at others. Can I give one more example definitely, so we all know Uber right we all I mean. I'm sure most of your listeners either use uber or or are an Uber driver to help fund your Your Business. If you look back a few years ago, Uber almost spun out of control because of culture. As you may know, there's someone employees that she posted something, and then it really I mean a opened up the curtain in terms of what was happening Uber. had. They not responded the way they did. Uber may not be what it is today. In fact that time investors. It was kind of spinning out of control. Their board there's several people specifically on the board that stood up and said we can make a change, and they've made an incredible change and look how phenomenal mean it's. A household were word and continuing to grow and evolve. So. Culture has a very significant and meaning a meaningful impact business results may give one more example. You're the expert here so so. alchemy is a privately held company. We have private investors. But how do I be? How am I able to translate that value of what we're investing in our culture alchemy in to a financial results so? I took the list of there's about sixty or so publicly traded SAS companies, so software service companies, which we would be in that genre and. This is by no means a perfect study. Okay, but basically reviewed. Each one of those public companies looked at glass door, scores, or comparably scores, variety things, and then came up for a score with each one of them again I am not data analyst in. It's not a perfect setting, but basically did that averaged it out then. I asked our CFO if you were to look at these. What were some of the financial metrics that you would say? We would either WANNA spar to or are would be considered financially healthy, and so he gave me several financial. Metrics to look at and then sorted these companies by this. Coincidentally. Each one that is performing the highest had the higher culture culture scores, and those that were forming the lowest the lower culture schools. So when I talk, you know cultures, not just tangible. It actually relates to result so I that gives you some insight and I hope. They didn't talk too much to that question Chandler. That was that was perfect and thank you for sharing. One of the questions that I've had on my mind is when you see someone deviating from the team culture. How do you handle that? In the most productive manner, right? It's interesting because. Again at Alchemy, because it were, so I'm not gonNA. Say Fanatical, but we do put a lot of focus on promoting and protecting our culture. Sometimes, we have to make the hard decisions so for example. You might have the high high performing salesperson. They're getting the deals done, but they're leaving bodies in the wake in there. It's inconsistent with the culture. That's only sustainable for a short period of time because it will deteriorate productivity among others. So at Alchemy. Without giving out too much, we actually made actually pretty significant decisions in our organization to have people find jobs outside of Alchemy that may be on the short term having high results, but were very low on our culture. And so that's how sometimes those are very very tough. Tough decisions to make, but for the longer term will actually have again better results. Wow, that's definitely not an easy one to swallow. It's not I appreciate the transparency on it. Another thing that I've been thinking about is generational gap. Yeah, within the workplace Obviously, there are so many different cultural norm just based upon when you grew up. And, so how do you recommend for founders to handle any generational gaps? They might have in their companies. Hey, you know this is always an interesting one. I actually think fundamentally while. How you may connect with people might be different in terms of how you've grown up and technology and learning technology right but. Fundamentally, even again. I'm re re. Re referencing Alchemy we do our annual engagement survey score an annual engagement survey. So like how are we feeling at Alchemy? And how are alchemists feeling about us? Every six months, which is pretty out of the ordinary most companies do it maybe once a year every other year, but our highest one of our highest scores on our survey is. Diverse perspectives are valued and appreciated. So fundamentally what that says in our average age is thirty nine. Many people think technology is much younger. Our average age is thirty nine, so we have the spectrum, but fundamentally if you have a culture that. Drives transparent communication carrying collaboration. You know the those types of things you automatic you not automatically, but you kind of drive. that. that. Openness to as I said diverse perspectives or appreciating diversity in terms of thinking. And, so I think that's one of the most impactful elements of. Whatever you. WanNa, call it different generations. The thing in terms of generations and I think this is with all. All generations, particularly your generation. Chandler and others is that you want feel like you're making an impact definitely. And so. Many times you can feel like wow I'm working for a for profit company and actually making an impact. But for for example I was talking to the company, but at Alchemy. How are we making an impact Melbourne? We're in the FINTECH space in his financial technology, but really what we're doing is we're working with. Credit Unions and banks to help them remain relevant against of the bigger ones right so we can create this mission of helping organizations within communities be survive and compete so those are the kinds of things that you have to do. The other thing is promoting time in terms of how giving back into your communities is really important as well and many folks that the other thing in terms of. Different generations as What your culture is internally has to be exc consistent with what saint being said about you externally in social media. And if there's a dramatic inconsistency than we know and Savvy next generation folks like you like Ferret that out very quickly. Next question is about hiring. Early stage companies, and even well established companies. Hiring is what can make or break your company however, are you all intentional about making sure that the folks that you onboard fit with your company? Culture Yeah so we do you know I'm not going to say we do anything that's crazy. Off The charts like really inventive. But we do spend a lot of time in terms of meeting them with multiple people across functions. And getting to know them on a human level and then. Of course, the skill sets are important, but that element of the culture fit is so important like literally people are hiring manager like the raiders like it's not a cultural fit, and it's just kind of sometimes attitudes. Album is than others. Everybody has many companies phenomenal cultures. It's just what fits for us. Are they really going to be optimistic and persevere? Are they going to be someone who? Trusted Accountability in terms of going to share their knowledge. Are they going to be someone that's not going to be? A team player, so those things that we look for in a after, tell you. Within a very short period of time. We've made a hiring decision they either opt out or we. Help them opt out of the organization and one thing I think is really interesting is sometimes people manager? Say Yup it, man. He or she's got this great cultural fit. Really well, what does that mean what he says? Super Nice Guy. Okay well, let's go down our culture compounds. We call. Let's go down those like see if you really think they are a culture fit, so let's start with trusted accountability. Do they do the right thing always. well, not really mean okay. How about and so you have to? I talked about the language the language and you can actually talk about these things then you can fair it in rather. He's a nice guy or she's a nice guy, and as it really someone that the team can count on just because they're smiling and friendly. Doesn't necessarily mean there's someone who's GonNa fit within your culture. Yeah, awesome! I really appreciate that insight, yeah! One of the things we've been thinking about his culture killers. Would love to hear some of your list of top culture killers that you've seen across share career so far. Well the biggest culture killers are if your leadership is acting inconsistent with what your culture is. That'll kill it dramatically. The other thing is particularly when you're scaling and growing a company is you're not? Focused on your culture and it just escaped Grows without. That's a hugely. It's a it's a big culture killer. As I mentioned allowing. Behaviors. That can eat away or culture slowly. As I mentioned a perfect example. We have one of our highest performing salespeople, but he's a or she's a jerk. That's a tremendous culture in. That's going to bleed through your organization pretty quickly. I think those are some of the key culture killers. Yeah I mean that I feel like anyone who has had multiple work. Experiences has probably worked for some folks who have been. We all have in fact. If you look at my linked in, you'll see. Where I'm at a place, maybe four or five years so good cultural alignment for me and if I'm there year, probably not a good culture alignment doesn't mean it's a bad culture, but it was not a culture alignment for me. Yeah one of the things you also talked about in this culture killer segment was when company is growing quickly. Sometimes, things can get away with you or get away from. Yeah, how do you get ahead of that? Question thank you so. You have to be I said very. Conscious, intentional so in your language in your words Even, I'll just tell you this this week. There was a communication that went out to all employees are alchemists in there wasn't a single reflection of our culture in it. It was just you must do this. I lost my mind because that's not how we are right. It's not just because we tell you. We need to explain why it's important and why we all want to do it. Get the difference right. The you get the same result you mean. You must do this training. Okay Great, but what does it really mean? Why do we need to do well because it relates to caring claverie? Trust again on whatever it is, you know to put it back into place, but one of the things. Also Besides that I'll give you another example our performance reviews, and we could probably spend an hour talking about performance for you. Are they outdated in? But never but I'm old school. We do performance reviews alchemy. But we keep them pretty simple there only on our six culture compound, so everybody is has the same discussion how what my results and how I behave, or how are my behaviors in terms achieving results in alignment with Michael with the six culture compounds? Did I demonstrate carrying collaboration. Did I show? Optimistic Perseverance. Did you know those types of things? And so that's the conscious way of continuing to think and talk about it, but I'll tell you something that we do. We're learning culture. We invest a lot more than most companies are growth ton in leadership development, Tangent, management development, just to kind of reinforce to our leaders and managers, how important their accountability is to our alchemist Alchemist, and at a company of our size and our growth. It's pretty rare to see the other thing that I. Think is fairly unique as we do culture training. Year we called it the central culture training, and we would bring in a cross functional teams, and by the way ninety five percent of our alchemists completed that culture training last year like craziness rate. But we did cross functional teams in. Facilitated sessions and we talked about our culture compounds, and we also challenge them. Like Adrian. You know hey trusted accountability. I got all that, but sally sue over. There doesn't right. So how do we work through that right or Hashtag? One of our culture compounds is real fun which we define as. Recognizing and celebrating contributions and engaging in our community. And so well, you know I did all this work and no one recognized me. That was not Hashtag real funny. Know we kind of challenge the things. This year as I mentioned, diverse perspectives are valued and appreciated. We added one hundred eighty alchemists last year. We're going to add another seventy this year. So. We're using disk, which is a? A thinking style assessment and were incorporating that in our culture training so I might be a d., which is dominant or I and influence or But we all can operate in the context of our culture. It's just understanding that I may be a D. which I'm a people would know MD, and that an understanding an s perspective right, and even though I might be thinking and behaving certain way, and they might be thinking, but we both all of us can operate within in alignment with our culture, so it's really. It's kind of fun again. Dynamic way of looking at examples of caring collaboration. How would a D. approach the situation? How would an ass and then we then it opens our mindset and hopefully breaks down the the the the conflicts, but instead appreciation in fact I just had an example. It was funny. Yesterday with one of the actually someone on my team, and we were having a one on one, and I was all in Google just do it, and then he says you know Adriana AC-. Let's right okay I'll shut down. You take time to explain to me all the details of this, and then you know so then we kind of. And we just finished a project and someone else sent a thing he goes. D. D. and see. We can work together, so it's kind of creating that and that's really important. I think. Particularly for fast growing companies to invest in things like that. Definitely talking about investing in specific tools. Do you have any tools that you would recommend for companies to integrate into their? Intentional culture processes right so. If. You're not you're. If you're not learning, you're not growing even it immediate. Startups, you've got a couple of people, if you're not sharing your knowledge with those around you. That's a critical element in terms of being able to build now for us as as we grow. We actually a couple of things that we've done that. I think are fairly unique at alchemy. We actually have our. ALCHEMY leadership call gold. Standard Leadership Development Program where it's a six month program leaders learn new tools every month. Everything from disc, which I mentioned to simple leadership management tools like Jafari window for variety of things so that they can actually apply that within the organization the other. The other things is. There's so much available that people get well. You know what we can't afford will certainly can afford. There's this podcast. There's so many things where you can engage in your team to reinforce the learning culture, and by the way any organization, if you're not continuing learning and understanding what the competitive market is, and what's happening. Shame on you because someone's going to like roll Raido of you and right past you so. Awesome. Thank you so much for all the insight that you cared. I know that you've got to run to dinner with the rest of the team in just a little bit so I have one last question, and it's basically just. How can any of us or of our listeners helpful to you? Personally or the rest of ALCHEMY team goes well. Thanks for asking that I mean I. This visit to Tulsa has been incredible the investment. that. So. Many organizations are making in Tulsa. You can just feel it. I mean generational change and so thank you for that. I really feel inspired by spending time here until syncing. You guys are doing no nothing at this point. I'm just so glad. I could spend some time with you and hopefully share a little insight to what I'm passionate about awesome. Thank you so much for a great afternoon on the podcast and we look for standing. Okay great, thank you, thank you, everyone for tuning into the be it since Oh podcast. You can find us on social media on all profiles at A-. Tinto capital, and you can find US online at Tinto capital Dot Com. You can subscribe to the podcast anywhere. PODCAST are played, and we want to give a huge. Thank you. Shout outs rent nine productions for their help. Thanks guys see next week.

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