1 Episode results for "Bob Mackie"
Bob Mackie - 'The Cher Show'
"Each. Hi everyone. And thank you for tuning into the two hundred eighty four episode of wards chatter, the Hollywood reporter's awards podcast, which is presented today by Bravo's dirty. John below deck. Watch what happens live with Andy Cohen, top chef and project runway for your EMMY consideration. I'm the host Gothenburg and my guest today is one of the greatest fashion designers and costume designers in history. The New York Times said he is quote, responsible for some of the most instantly recognisable costumes of all time close, quote, Carol Burnett has said, quote, I didn't know what I'd do with a character until he did the outfit, close quote the real and said, his, quote, superb clothes are not equaled in even French workrooms close quote. And he himself has said, quote, a woman who wears my clothes is not afraid to be noticed close, quote, this is a man who over the course of some sixty years in the business has worked with Judy Garland, Mitzi. Gainer. Carol Burnett share. Diana Ross, Barbra strike. Tina Turner and Margaret. Liza Minelli, Bette, midler, Elton John and so many others. But he is perhaps best known for his work on eleven seasons of the Carol Burnett show and multiple variety shows featuring sunny and share a two thousand two inductee into the television hall of fame. A thirty two time EMMY nominee who has won nine Emmys, including the first one ever, presented for costume design a three time. Oscar nominee, and this year for the first time, a Tony nominee, who is the front, runner to win for his work on the share show in which he is also portrayed as a character, the Sultan of sequence and the Raja of rhinestones, the legendary Bob macky over the course of our conversation at the offices of Rubinstein communications in Manhattan, the eight year old and I discussed what inspired him to design clothes in the first place. How came to work with many of the most talented, women and gay icons of his lifetime. What inspired some of his greatest creations from the gone with the wind. Parody dress with a curtain rod for the Carol. Burnett. Show to shares various Oscar outfits how it feels to finally be accepted by the fashion world establishment after decades of being dismissed as merely a costume designer plus much more. But I, I was joined at the Westin hotel in Times Square, by David Rooney. Archie theater. Critic and Tony's voted himself to help me preview Sunday night, seventy third Tony awards, which will be hosted by James corden, David, thanks for joining us. Thank you, Scott. Wonderful to be here will. So I think the fun way to produce. This is to just go category by category and talk about in your case what you think should win and just your segment of the nominees and will come to what's likely to win at the end of each conversation. But there were more than thirty shows this season. Twenty five of them are represented with at least one nomination. And so there's lots of talk about on top of the fact that it's a exciting time in town here. Not least because the shrimp cocktail is back. Joe allen. It's a big special Tony honor. Award. Right. We've wanted it for years and it's bad. It's back. Well, let's start, though, with best play nominees are choirboy from Terrell album, mccranie, the playwright who also was behind the source material for moonlight. The Ferryman which is now with a replacement cast, but came over from the UK, Gary a sequel, Titus andronicus Inc. And what the constitution means to me, and I think the big place to start here. David is that kill Mockingbird is not among the five nominees? What happened there? You know, it's interesting, it's an anonymous voting process, the Tony nominating committee, and I guess I can see a scenario in which everyone's thinking, well, someone else will vote for that vote for this. I think that Broadway's lagging behind in terms of representation, diversity, inclusiveness, all of that off Broadway is going ahead, leaps and bounds with a lot of minority playwrights being produced a lot of good work along with a lot of mediocre work. But the fact is representations really seen a shakeup. Off Broadway and Broadway, maybe feeling the push to catch up. So I think it's significant that we have to queer playwrights Terrel mccranie, choirboy tayla Mak for Gary a woman, what the constitution means to me, only one, which is still a little poor. But okay. And then to Brits, James Graham with ink and chips, Butterworth with Ferryman. So I think also there is a push in terms of considering the plays to really favor new work original work, and maybe a lot of people think that this a certain stigma attached to doing adaptation. I think they're wrong. In this case, I think that it would have been a very valid inclusion to have to kill a Mockingbird in there as a six than me. And there were also some legal issues surrounding other people in the area being able to do versions of tequila Mockingbird, and stuff like that, that may have backfired a little bit. Right. Maybe. Yeah. There is a sense of Scott Rudin as his big producer who kind of runs a lot of Broadway. And he. Has his admires his detractors. I think whatever you say about Scott. You have to admit he has incredible taste. He is very good at choosing projects. Some of them were commercially, some of them don't to kill Mockingbird is a project that really has resonated, it struck a chord people, I think it's a fantastic patient. I think Aaron Sorkin was kind of doomed out of a nomination in this case, and it is the hot ticket right now. It's incredibly difficult to get to. It's doing a million five million six week, which is phenomenal business for play. That's kind of musical business not really dramatic play business. So these being the five that did make the cut it seems like the wind is likeliest between the Ferryman and what the constitution means to me. Do you argue that another one of these should win? I think you know, could see scenario in which choirboy might win, but not so much the others I was underwhelmed by Inc. I have to admit I found that play a little clever for its own good. I don't think it went very deep. I think there. A lot of interesting stories to tell about Rupert Murdoch, and I'm not sure that was one of them. I also am a little bit over the Rupert Gould show, the director of that play all about the bells and whistles and not so much about the text or performances. So while birdie Kabul is great as Murdoch, Jonny Lee Miller is also very good as his editor Larry lamb. I think that the play felt kind of empty, and long and windy to me. But Gary, I think is a really bowls each to be in there. I don't know how many votes it's gonna get. But I kind of like the fact that it's on Broadway. It's represented. All right. What the constitution means to me is, I think it's a really strong play. It's really keyed into this moment in a way that no other play is this season in terms of times me to all of that the way women are treated in the US constitution, the way women are regarded in terms of legislation in this country. What we're seeing happening in the south now with Boertien laws all of that. It's an incredibly relevant play for right now. So good for David Rooney is this should win for me is the Ferryman because I'm just a tireless lover of big populous bold theater. I think there's a great thriller element to it. I think that's a great family drama. It's just a big sprawling rich tapestry of life. And I think that the way Sam Mendis says directed the peace. It just pulsating with all this energy in a similar way to jets Butterworth's play Jerusalem from a few years back. I do think he's a great playwright in terms of these big themes, big muscular pieces of theater. That we don't get so often anymore because the basic economics theater so tight that everyone wants to do three characters single set clay. Well, I do think that, that seems to be the way that the tide is breaking that I think for the whirlwind I will say, right now, the fireman, as well, although I wonder if it makes any difference that there's the regional casts that everybody I saw, including the Tony voters is not there for the home stretch here. I assume they'll be here for the ceremony itself because the number of them are nominated, but I don't think we ever quite got to the bottom of why that is if it was a visa issue or what the regional company, which started overseas and brought it here is not here for the home stretch. I think the fact that a lot of them had done it at the Royal court than they had done it in the West End transfer. So they'd been doing it for a long time, and they did six or eight months or whatever it was on Broadway. So I think contracts were up equity deals were probably ended at that point, who knows they may have had other projects in the works. Is they didn't just replace them? With thirteen shabby, Broadway, top tier replacement cost app. So I think people who are seeing the play now are not having a lesser experience with it. Let's go to best musical, which to me is the toughest category. Just to predict you've got ain't too. Proud sort of jersey boys esque thing with the temptations Beetlejuice Haiti's town, which is the show with most nominations of any show, fourteen the prom, and then Tootsie, which is doing big business. And also getting raped, so purely from a shed win point of view. What's your take on that category? Oh, absolutely. Haiti's town all the way I think it's a really original peace with beautiful score. I think it's incredibly well song, the only thing that maybe will count against it in some ways, I think, is that it's a weird show in that the leads far less compelling than the supporting characters the romantic leads are there. Reef Carney and even know blitz oughta just much less interesting as characters than Hades. And Pacific played by Patrick page and angry. And by her Mays, played by the wonderful to shield, so in that sense, it's an odd bowl, but it's beautifully staged, I think Rachel Chapin was gypped out of the Tony for best director of a couple years back for Natasha Pierre, and the great well, favorite show director show, incredibly innovative, and full of imagination, and just wonderful inextricable work with the design people as well with the lighting with the costumes with the set design and I think she's done the same thing here. It's a beautifully directed piece that has really benefited from multiple productions prior to Broadway in which its vault every step of the way. I personally love the Orpheus enrich ac- myth. I think it's one of the most beautiful and I found it very moving found the music incredibly memorable. And I think Ingrid Michaelson should she decide to continue with musical theater? I'm really interested to see what she does because I do think there's a very original voice here. And, you know, a show. With the book score and lyrics by woman that doesn't happen, so often, I think eighties down really deserves it. Well, and it would be consistent with the way things have gone the last few years, whether it's fun home, or dare Evan Hansen or Helton, where something has come up through off Broadway, really found support within the community. And then, you know, an original work as opposed to it seems like there's been a reaction against something like now, look, Tutsi itself is in a way totally new work because what we think of is touchy was certainly not a musical. They've done a beautiful job with that. And I think Santino Fontana who will will come to that category is like a slam dunk absolute. So there somewhere where that will be recognized for short the prom. I think maybe it's amazing. What a Gress of push. They've made for that. And also that the problem does have a shock the little show that could yes, it's the underdog at the box office to see is doing very well, Haiti's town and selling out ain't two proud is doing phenomenal business, which, again, I think we. Can be critical about the proliferation of the jukebox musical in the proliferation of the movie to musical adaptation. But I think that ain't too proud and Tootsie are superior examples of both that both very deserving nominees and the promise totally original completely charming, captivating show. It's funny it's fresh. It's clear positive. I think that, you know, these are all pretty legitimate contenders will use the I think, is the weak link here. But you're so you're Tony voter to you look at this and say, I want to use my vote to help show that needs help as opposed to rubber stamping show. That's already going over great. Or do you just totally remove any of that? And just what do I truly think, is the best because if you're looking to help a show, perhaps, you vote for the prom, or if you're looking to endorse the idea of original works, coming up through, you know, you sort of through the system than Haiti stout? I'm just curious personally. How you approach that I guess I do think about what show is going to benefit. Most from a Tony, and I think something like two itsy is going to have commercial longevity regardless. It's a hugely entertaining show. And as long as sent on Thomas stays in it. It really delivers on all levels. I think the book is exceptional to itsy. It's very, very funny. What's great about it is that the jokes. We know from the movie are not the jokes that really have you screaming with lounging the show. It's the new stuff. It's very fresh. And I think that the potentially problematic aspect of agai positive himself as a woman to take a woman's Joe in this has been addressed head on. And I think quite smartly, but what they've done with the show that I think, is really exceptional is flesh out all the supporting characters in wonderful way. So they all have their distinct identity, which is very different from the identity of their predecessors in the movie. Right. You know, it's a great show, but it does it need the Tony maybe not. I tend to just really to answer your question in a long winded way. I tend to really go with what I just got what I think, is the best show of the mall. Also in this case, we agree, the should win and the whirlwind in a very tight race. But I think we're coming in with Haiti's town in both towns that could be spoiler category. You know, for sure for sure. From even out, you know, they, they all have defense. Absolutely. I just think if we have the guns and have to call right now, the easiest to justify but it's it could go on a number of ways best revival of a play the third of the big four show awards. You've got three shows that are closed the boys in the band torch song, and the Waverley gallery and then to others that are still running. We saw all my sons together, and then there's also burn this, a lot of Hollywood talent between these categories. All my sons has an bending boys in the band, had a whole host of folks, burn, this carry Russell and Adam driver, and then Waverley gallery. Elaine may Lucas hedges on Joan Allen, who was not nominated individually. Same with hedges terms of revival of a play. Where do you fall on that? I think it's a tight race. I really enjoyed the oh my son's revival. I think it's very solid. It doesn't reinvent the wheel, but it's a really sharp production, beautifully acted, and burn this. I think. Drivers phenomenally just one of those performances that you really remember everything about is so physical, so dynamic. It's Brando Brandis, guess performance, and torch song. I had kind of lukewarm feelings about when it was off Broadway. But I think by the time it moved to Broadway. Michael Iurie, who was playing the Harvey Firestone character had sort of stepped out from that shadow, and made the role his own in ways that I thought were quite beautiful Mercedes Ruehl was great. I think it was a terrific revival. So this is a strong category. But I do think it's going to come down to a clash between boys in the band, and the Waverley gallery, both of which are terrific productions. I love Kenny Loggins plays. And I don't think the way really gallery is his strongest, it's maybe his most personal. But I also find we've seen this kind of territory, so much indie movies particular always eighteen versions of this play at every Sundance. And I thought it had its limitations. What did have that I think was incredible was Elaine May's? Yeah. Hormone. And I think it's also quite beautifully directed by Lila Noyer Bala for me. Joe, Allen's emission from the featured actress category is one of the big crimes of these Tony nominations. But if I had to go for production process revival might pick would be boys in the band. I think that that is as that you're should win. Absolutely should win. I mean first of all, politically, it's inconceivable that ten years ago, we could have had this play which has been equally vilified and celebrated by LGBTQ audiences over the decades. Some people think it's great. Some people think it perpetuates the ugliest kind of stereotypes, but I think what Joe Montello did in directing, this beautifully cost production was to take a play that is potentially problematic and show us via compassion for the characters for the situation, they're in show is the context, the social context of what created these men and their hangups and then euro sees what made them bitter and aggressive with one in. Other that, you know, there's as much hate as love as much self loathing as celebration in it. And I think all of that is what made that production, very complex entertaining and rewarding. I think that does seem between those two for the will win as well though it's unusual certainly not unheard of it all, but unusual that you would have this between a bunch of shows that have closed, but I think there's of the two that are still running. I have a hard time seeing all my sons or burn this beating those, and I guess it's just a question of, you know, Rudin has mounted very aggressive campaign for Waverley gallery. But I think everyone recognizes Elaine may is going to be honored in her category. So I'm inclined deservedly so deservedly. So, so I would be inclined to think they would go with boys in the band hair as well. I mean you mentioned Scott Rudin aggressive campaign to the way really gallery, I don't think the boys in the band, is being any less aggressive. Now they're reminding us very consistently that, you know, even though the play happened last summer and it's long gone that it was. Very well loved in the community. It had a great response, commercially was very successful. I think my choice should win would be boys in the band. But I find it very hard to say which one will, I think it's really going to be down to the wife of boys in the band of the gallery. Yes. Both of which would be deserving. Absolutely. Let's go to revival of a musical where we have an unusual situation just to nominees. It was a very thing here for musical. Revivals. And the two that we have our kiss me. Kate with Kelley O'Hara, who's also nominated will come to her later and then Oklahoma, but not your grandmother's Oklahoma. This one is in the round at circle and swear and on very unconventionally with pots and pans, Ren front of the anyway. Very chilly chilly. Yeah. Exactly. During intermission, which even Anna Windsor was letting up for receive some publicity, anyway, between these two it does seem to have really broken for Oklahoma, both in terms of what people think should and will win. So I don't know how much we need to. Need to get into that? If you have anything you'd want to add about that. I found kiss me Kate. I have to say slightly pedestrian. I thought that there was some great moments kill Johar's, singing colposo in love is really just one. A deep beautiful Vogel performances of the year. She can do anything. I'm not sure that this kind of comedy is really her forte, and for me it didn't help that this show was so recently revived with Brian Stokes Mitchell. And the wonderful Maron Mazzy, who died last year, and who's being on it at the Tonys that was pretty standout production, this to me felt like it had some great moments this the too darn hot dance on samba number is pretty fantastic low, but forever electrifying moment, there was some kind of sluggish moments and I'm not entirely convinced that we'll chase a great romantic lead. I think he's fine. He gets the job done, but he not particularly inspiring that show. I kinda got it the minute, it was over whereas Oklahoma, we I know we disagree on this. You were not such a fan for me getting Anna Wintour to eat car. Is the least of it Ciccio. I think it's a pretty phenomenal reinvention of, of an old chestnut that can be kind of corny and old school. But we forget that Oklahoma was a revolutionary show in it. Followed showboat in showing Americans that musical theater can be narrative complex can have dramatic heft to it. It's not just fluff. And I think what Daniel fish has done is take the show back to its roots, as a play to really explore the dark heart of America and the sense of Maine coming in taking ownership of the land ownership of women marginal figures being pushed aside and dealt with without any kind of Justice. I found it really heartbreaking. And it just had me grip the entire time. I also think what they've done with the orchestrations is just genius. I think taking it back to this blue grassy kind of sound with instruments that are true to the period. These beautiful kind of like early Katie Lang country orchestrations on. That we know so. Well, I think it's just superb absolutely adored that make a lot of good points. I still am not clear. What the thing was when you come back from intermission, you've got a interpretive dance from somebody, but whatever I mean it was a strong feelings on both directions. I've seen with that. What I'm going to suggest we do for the remaining categories because I wanna make sure we touch on all of them is say the nominees, and maybe let's just Senator to on the should wins and Senator to on the winds and we'll just zoom right through them. So let's start with best performance by a leading actor in a play paddy Considine for the Ferryman Bryan Cranston for network, Jeff Daniels for to kill a Mockingbird Adam driver for burn this, and Germany, pope, a newcomer who's nominated twice this year in this case, and then this category for choirboy we should just quickly note, Cranston is a pass winner. Just a few years ago for all the way Daniels has never won before take it away. They're all really strong contenders. Any one of them could be a very dignified. Winner. I think Jeremy pope, it's great that he is. Julie represented here. And for ain't too, proud he's doing fantastic work and just having done. Those shows back to back. It's really a phenomenal debut Broadway season for him. I think his time will come if he continues stage where can doesn't get channel away into film, and TV projects paddy Considine is, so fantastic again a total novice to the stage. This was his first stage role. I think that his performance in the ferry men was really quite something Cranston is great. But for me he's the only thing that I love about network. I thought that you know, I love that movie. But I think that the Patty ski screenplay is very much linked to it's time a lot of the things he would so prescient about foreseeing have come to pass. And now the kind of just, you know, the yield is shrug, and that's about it. Cranston is pretty electrifying whenever he's not on the center of the stage. I felt the place slump a little bit. And all of the bells and whistles of all the multimedia stuff. Just became like the distraction. Adam driver. We do we talked about. He's an animal on stage. She's just fantastic. And I think that the breakaway from stage work into television and film, has fed his Croft in a really interesting way. I think what he's doing in this play is so far above and beyond the things he did early in his day, straight out of Juilliard as an actor. I think he's been but I would go with Jeff Daniels here. I think he's very deserving winner. It's very hard to take a character like Atticus Finch, who all of us know from the book all of us know from the movie from Gregory picks performance and to give that character moral shading. He doesn't have in the movie. His arc is I think much more complex in that I think is part of the strength of our Sorkin quite beautiful adaptation is taking his with Atticus as he makes up his mind and his influenced by the forces around him and his mind is opened up to the forces of racism. He is trying to combat very earnest way. Well, I think for the will win it does seem to be between Cranston Daniels. These two people who are certainly well known on the west coast, as well. And have come here and done months and months of great work. I think that there is a certain impulsive people to give somebody else a first win before. They give a second to Cranston. But my sort of gut feeling is that people have just so blown away by what Cranston has done in this, and that it's less of an ensemble piece than to kill modding bird, where my sense is that Cranston will get his second. But you might be right. It's an incredible virtuoso performance. I mean just where he gets all that energy, and all that kind of internal angst that comes up. It's really an exhausting performance to watch in a good way. But, you know, I don't think you can underestimate the importance of really strong Lynch pin in holding together big on salt and Daniels. Does that I think quite beautifully with a minimum of showing a great great theater actor either one of them very worthy? Absolutely forms by leading actress in a play an bending all my sons Lord Donnelly Ferryman. Elaine may Waverly gallery Jan matere Bernhardt hamlet Laurie Metcalf. Hillary Clinton having one in each of the last two years, and then high Shrek who also wrote what the constitution means to me. This seems to be when we can handle pretty quickly because for her first time on Broadway in about fifty years, more than fifty years. He lane may for the Waverley gallery seems like a slammed on. Yeah. I mean she's being around as a writer, occasionally, but not as a performance in spec in the days with when she was an impromptu, you oh with Mike Nichols. She is a beloved figure in the theater community in the film community. She has always been something of a maverick. And I think what she does in this play the line separating performance from character. Just disappear completely. And she had me believing from the first scene that she is this woman who's formidable in her day, once this incredible social, creature pot of the Greenwich Village gallery scene. And there's a sad. Business that comes with that a melancholy aspect clings to that performance as her mind starts deteriorating foster than a body. And I really think that she does something quite spectacular here. But you know there are a lot of good performance. I think in bending is terrific, again absent from Broadway for more than thirty years. Laurie Metcalf this played in stick with me. She's always wonderful to watch, but it wasn't great Janet mcteer the same. But I think that is a truly terrible play, and Laura. Donnelly is pretty great playing a character somewhat inspired by her family's experiences. And Heidi Schreck is sort of doing a version herself, which requires some skill but, you know, there's nothing he quite at the level of lane may best performance by leading actor and musical Brooks Schmidt skits for the prom Derrick Baskin for into proud Alex Brightman for Beal juice, nominated just a couple of years ago for a another performance in the same winter garden theatre school rock Damon, Don. Oh for Oklahoma and Santino Fontana Tutsi, some other one, I think. We can pretty quickly say, the willan should would be sentinel. Tanna. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean I like to all of these performances, I would argue, maybe that Brooks assets should be in the featured category, not the lead. But he is always hilar-. He's the funniest man on a New York state agree, I get a kick out him but Santino Fontana is just great. I mean it's quite an achievement I think to take a role. That is so I constantly with Dustin Hoffman, and to make it new, and that's part of I think the writers and the director everybody involved, it's contributed to this, but ultimately Santino who's carrying every scene. And he makes you care about the character. I think he's one of the moment when he sings I won't let you down. And you realize he can do this is one of the great moments of the season. So you start to buy him as a woman. I think that's the essential part, if you don't buy him as a woman that I seen you're basically not on board with show, but he sells it. He sells it very cleverly. And it's not a caricature to real characterization best performance by leading actress in a musical. Stephanie. Jay block the share show. She plays the most mature version of three shares in that show. The other two are not nominated which seems a little unfair, but she is the star Caitlyn cannon, for the prom Beth level. Also for the prom pass winter, even nobles ADA for Haiti's town, just a few years after being nominated for miss Saigon and Kelley O'Hara seventh nomination she won three or four years ago for the king, and I and so it seems like this in most people's calculations the should end the will is between Stephanie j block and Beth level. Where do you fall on that? Well, I find bit level, you know, perfect match for Brooks Schmitz, just hilarious everything she does she kind of plays variations on the same character. But she does it so. Well, she is the ultimate kind of IGA maniacal stage diva. And she's just fabulous added. I laughed my bottle in the problem. I found very, very funny show. But, you know, s j b all the way I think it's, it's Stephanie j block, she really. Brings Kloss and a wink, wink, kind of irony without pushing it too hard to the sheriff show. She knows exactly this show. She's in and she, I think what she does for me. That's fundamental in this show is she gets shares Arnie? There's always a certain self awareness in an irony to share that. I think saves this show from being a big just a big trashy, glitzy Vegas kind of spectacle. And it is that some degree, but it's also incredible thought of fun. And she Stephanie j block just owns it every moment. She's on Jerry such Darty actress, and somebody in the community who and again Beth level has one before, and she's now having to compete for votes with a co star. So I think that Stephanie j block ends up winning. There is also a real Trueba Broadway loves people who keep coming back and performing, she, she started off, I think a replacement elf Abidin wicked and she's done a number of other shows he was fantastic in full settles. Yeah. A couple years ago. And she could easily be a winner for that. But I think this is a moment. All right. Performance by featured actor. A play pretty Carvel for ink rubbing the Zeus for the boys in the band Gideon Glick for till Mockingbird. Brennan, your Inuits burn this and Benjamin Walker for all my sons. This one's tight go to bed for somebody David. Well, as you say it's his tied as Benjamin walkers apps. Which we saw thank you for that. You know, I think that it's a really interesting character for me the standout performance by a featured actor in a play was not even nominated. It was Acharya Quinto in boys in the band, I think it takes real courage to play a character so abrasive to make no concessions to soften him. I mean there were moments in that where he was beyond sinister. And I think that he was incredibly compelling to watch in the same way, he was positive of his work and glass menagerie a few years ago. I think it's pretty unjust that he was pasta over for this one, too. I think Robin, his terrific getting Glick, I think is wonderful into kill Mockingbird. It's a tough category. Not just because of his apps, but I think I would go with Benjamin Walker. He I think he's really an underrated actor and he brings a pay off to that character that I wasn't always aware of imposs- productions of all my sons. And again, it's a very good on samba Jack O'Brien is very good with a large ensemble. And I think he keeps them unified, Tracy Letts does great work and it bending, superb work. But. Jim Walker manages to stand out in that crowd, that to me is worth something I'd have no problem at all if that happened. But my kind of gut feeling is that the one actor from the on some of the boys in the band, who is nominated is Robin days, and I feel like this may be the people may sees that as a place to do it. I don't feel so he's, he's a much love Broadway performance Macaj fall and in the heights. And, you know, he's again, a real trooper I think you did terrific work in the boys in the band, and it would be a very dignified win. There's also a lot of support for birdie carbon who won the city was great one, the parallel awarded the alleviates in London for the same role, but that one it bothers me because I feel like the same way that it's hard to swallow the idea that is nominated, but Tracy Letts as an Laurie Metcalf is nominated, but John Lithgow is not here that birdie Carville, could win and Jonny Lee Miller, isn't even nominated seems a little unfair. But I guess that's the name of the game. And yet, could certainly be it's actually this category probably more than any other is. A place where we might see a disagree surprise. I mean getting lick was great and significant other. I don't feel had that much to do instill among see I really liked him into kill Mockingbird. I love the way he was giving a subtle kind of wink of the linked to Truman Capote, the sense that this is a young boy, who was going to grow into a gay man. I think all of that is very understated and just woven into the performance in quite subtle ways. I also think Brennan around, which is terrific. I don't ever think I've seen him giving on interesting performance. I think he's great in burn this for me burn this. The weakness is I don't think the play holds up particularly well well the guns to my head for the Welwyn. I'm going to go with Robin days, but agree with you. All right. Featured actress in a play fiancial Flanagan for the Ferryman Celia Keenan Bolger for kill Magdeburg Kristine. Nielsen and Julie white, both for Gary a sequel, Titus andronicus and Ruth Wilson for king. Lear the one actress nominated there, there is not a nomination this year, sort of somewhat surprisingly for Glenda, Jackson who won. Year. I think that this seems to really be most people would agree for the shit, and the well Celia Keenan Bolger. Absolutely. She again, someone with a great history Broadway in the last ten fifteen years, she has done, very consistent work over number of productions both plays and musicals starting with the lovely twenty fifth annual Putnam county spelling bee and I think what she does playing scout Finch is really interesting. It's hard for Natalie play a kid, s she's doing one for two forty three years old. She's playing eight year old perfectly never you never question now veracity, the performance and I love flanigan's performance in the Ferryman as well. She may get some traction, the other, you know, I think very worthy nominations, but I do think it Celia Keenan bowl. Yes. Best performance by a featured actor in a musical. Andrea shields eighties town. Andy crowd Aleutian for Tutsi. Good job. Patrick page for eighty sound germy pawprint, proud and a from Sykes for ain't too proud. I think the gut reaction when you see something like this, where you've got two pairs of people from the same shows to me sound too, for me, too proud. Is that you sort of think the other guy has the advantage, except that in this case Andrea shields is such a veteran and then you have these two relative newcomers from eight to proud. I don't know how you pick between the two into proud guys who are both excellent as members the stations, and I think, Andy gresh solution is fine. Intouch very good. But it doesn't feel like enough there to, to merit a win. So the two guys from Haiti's town, both excellent. Patrick page with that booming voice as Haiti's and Andre shields, as basically the MC of the production is the storyteller guides us through, he's the messenger. I feel like it's got to be him. Right. You know, it's hard to imagine a scenario in which he doesn't win as you say, he's an absolutely beloved veteran. The industry with a history fifty or so years in the business. He's in his seventies now he hasn't been on Broadway, and ten years is never wanted, Tony. He's a phenomenal force in not just African American theater. But in theater in general, and I think it's a wonderful performance its plan boy and showy but it's also it draws you in as a kind of conspiratorial aspect to to the way he draws you in the way he sort of invested in the story, but also detached from it that requires a real balancing act, and I think he's pretty wonderful. But if there's a surprise here, I would think it's gonna come from one of the into proud guys and I love Jeremy pope. I think doing that as we said back to back performances in choirboy ain't too, proud is really something and speaks highly of his energy and commitment at this young age. But I was blown away, by the way, he moves the way he sings on stage, the pay off he invested in this very troubled conflicted. Character I thought was great. His performance has David Ruffin if. Had to pick a dark horse. I would pick out from Sykes. All right forms by featured actress musical Lilli Cooper Tutsi in the, Jessica Lang part, amber gray in Haiti's town star styles and Tutsi in the Terry are part alley stroke in Oklahoma, as any, and Mary, Testa, as Eller also in Oklahoma. I thought emigre was great in both the great comet. And now again, back with rich Trafton in Haiti's town. But I would be surprised based on the way things of broken so far, L stroke, or is not the winner, and that would be Sorek in the sense that the first disabled actress in a wheelchair to win a Tony. That would be quite a moment. And I think that's where we're headed. Yeah. I gotta agree. I don't think I had a more enjoyable time on Broadway. Any point in the season. Watching alley stroke are absolutely jubilant. While singing, I'm just a girl who can't say, no, the idea of this woman in a wheelchair who is just. With this sexual exploding out of her. It was almost revolutionary, and it was such a high point in that show, which is often very melancholy, very downbeat. But, you know this incredible celebratory song that she sings about her own sexuality. I think is just great. And the performance is just so full of joy so full of intelligence, ADL anti can easily just be a ditzy slut. Okay. I think here, she is this woman who is absolutely self possessed, and in charge of our own sexuality in charge of our own choices. I really enjoyed that performance. But again, angry is phenomenal has has if any voice water voice. What and I think that she has a special connection to the director, Rachel Chavan has worked in great comedy. And in this show, you know, you can't take your eyes off her when she's on staff, and she in a sense, is the female complement to Andrea shields. She has a certain MC quality formats as well when she takes the mic and sings the first song after intermission and introduces the band, is if it's a cabaret show. I think that's a great moment is sort of adventurous, I throw for her if she wanted, because she really is terrific. But I either one of those two would be very, very worthy win. But I do think Ellie stroker's gonna take it all right. We will see all the results will start coming on Sunday night at eight PM eastern James corden, hosting seventy third. Tony awards. David romy. Thank you for doing this. Thank you, Scott. Always a pleasure. And now for my interview with Bob macky. Thank you so much for doing this. It's an honor to have you on the podcast. Thank you. My pleasure. We always begin with just a few basics where were you born and raised them? What did your folks do for a living? Well, I was born in California, Los Angeles area, Monory park, my mother didn't really do much of anything. She didn't like the idea ever having to work. She worked for a while, and the motion knew how to do was file. Jaded and somehow she managed to live off of she had some stocks that her parents gave her because they just thought she was hopeless and she was about things like that. And she lived off that for life really was your dad in the picture not much. No. Not much. They pretty much separated when a couple months after I was born, and he went off to the war, the big war, and there, I was I didn't even seem till I was around six or seven really. I read that there was a trick grandmother in the picture. Is that true? Well, there was a grandmother yet. My father's mother, actually. And so that was perfect for my mother, because then shouldn't have to really take care of me. You know, she takes me to museum parks and movies and things, which is fine. She was sort of like my auntie mame, but not really much of a mother. And I know that sounds terrible, but every now and then if I'd say notice. Your mother and then you go, yeah. So the scape it sounds like not the ideal childhood. So the escape, though was the movies. I think it was like my college really just going and watching and watching them watching and not realizing what I was picking up on. And then by the time I was about twelve ten twelve I realized, I was learning from the movies, which ones sort of made the biggest impression on you. Well, flashiest ones. Of course, the MGM musicals Twentieth, Century Fox musicals the early on. It was always Carmen Miranda or Betty Grable those forties, ladies because they were the most colorful, and it was technicolor, and they didn't look anything like my mother and my half sister. Patsy. So I just liked him. You know, I liked him then I would come home, and I draw little pictures, I wouldn't draw exactly what I'd seen because they, you know, but I would do my versions, and that went on for years, and years, and was it clear that what you were drawing what you were focusing. On where the clothes or it was just the whole experience with the whole thing. But it was the close to, you know, because you draw body, you put clothes on, and they were always hot seat dot close and nothing to do. And then I would put redraw these pictures, and then I'd say, well, that could be for my sister Patsy. And this could be for my grandmother. This is my aunt bee, and I would put names on them and they would be they all look like hawkers. What was I was six or seven? Right. Well, let's all get a big laugh out of it look at grandma. She's looking good. So you, eventually dabbled it a few different colleges, but left before graduating, and I wanted to ask, what how'd you studied and what prompted you to leave? Well, I only left one really I went to City College because I was I couldn't really get into college because my math was so terrible, and it never did get much better. So I had to go there to cry to make that up because I couldn't get anywhere if I didn't have all that, and go to a credit at school, and blah, blah, blah. And of course, I went to the school, I got a scholarship, and then I was there for a couple of years, I went all the all the awards before my last year. So I just quit. You're there that Jayne Mansfield where one of your dress, what she did. Yeah. Student. She was picked. It was an art school. It was an art school that had a costume design department and the art school had an art students ball, every spring and Jayne Mansfield and her husband, Mickey hogging, muscle man. They came, and they were going to be the king, and the Queen the art students ball, which is pretty fun. Then we had a little contest, and I sort of I didn't turn in one, I turned in about ten of outfits, all different versions, and stuff. I was ready to go away. They were pretty good actually when I see them now I go, we could make money doing that as so it was good. Anyway, they took pictures of me holding fabric and doing thing, and she came in a suit because it was a school before, you know, it, she's Hyder suit jacket off, and she helps them fabricator, and then she ended her bronze flip that behind her so she could push everything up. It was hysterical. And of course, all the art students who see naked women all the time because they're doing. Classes, but they were all hooting and hollering up in the second story. Looking down as you're saying she was topless. She was topless, but she wasn't bear topless, but she might as well she had fabric, and she was pushing Bubis up, it was funny. And it was really we had a good time. And then we had to go fitter, and she had this house in Beverly Hills right on Sunset Boulevard, that had a heart shape pool special has got a lot of publicity. Mickey built this whole heart shaped pool and the whole house. One room was turquoise with a picture of Jane turquoise dress, be based on the wall. And the next room was pink and the next room and she had they, they were taking a shower before the fitting, we're going to fit both of them because they were going to she was going to be a Greek goddess and he was what he didn't have my once you're design had already been shows. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I didn't have any competition at that school right at that time, because everybody wanted to be sports where design, okay? And you know, sit costume design. That's what I'm here for. Well, let's stop there, though, because what point did you decide this was what you were gonna pursue? And how that was when I was ten years old. I decided that so to go up to this college which I guess today is now California Institute of the arts. It is it is it had a big Disney backing at the time and a lot of the artists that they early artists that Disney gone to school there. But then they took over when they just changed the whole school. So I guess had you not got in the scholarship. How would your mom and grandmother have felt about I don't know. I don't think either one of them cared what you, I mean, I was such a weird child that they just figured you better just let him do what he does because he's doing. All right. I got a scholarship. So that was good was the scholarship on the basis every money. So that was good help stuff. You think the scholarship was? On the basis of your sketching, because you were obviously a really great jar from early on. I was two years in this junior college that had a really good art department and I was already pretty good. I was making money, doing strains and stuff around, and the people at the school thought, oh boy. Here we go eastern illustrator. He could be advertising art, commercial art. And then I know I wanna come here to be a costume designer. So the art part was pretty strong to start with it is interesting. Because in some ways, totally different skill sets spiel to draw that beautifully end to make costumes lines and you do. Well, so drew all the time. You know, I live with my grandparents, and there weren't any kids around there were no kids in the neighborhood to speak of sought kids at school. Right. But I was that weird child that didn't like sports whatever anyway, we'll still the reason you ended up leaving college early was because I went back in the fall for the next year and they were saying and this year, we get to do the Kapiti oh shoe competition. And we do this over here in this over there. And I've won them all the year before they said it's time for me to get out of here. I'll just quit a get my portfolio together and it was a good portfolio. And I had to portfolios had one for commercial art, and I had another one that I put together for getting jobs in the studios as sketch Artis for designers, a lot of them didn't draw or they didn't want to, you know or they did huge films. And they had to have help to do all the people in the crowd scenes and all that stuff. Anyway, I did about I don't know half a dozen to a dozen things that were I thought. Very movie, oriented. And I had a friend who was a teacher in the school and look to his stuff. And I went, okay? I can do that. And I did this one drawing. I did a whole lot of stuff period stuff and everything wondering a man in tuxedo. Next tool blonde, glamorous woman in a blue beat address. And for the next couple of years that one sketch kind of cinched every job, I got out. And so the jobs that you were getting though, in that period for movies or for other for movies. Yeah. The first job, I got booked for not the first one, I did actually was drawing Marilyn Monroe for her last film that never got finished, gotta give, and that was quite interesting. And terrifying drillers job, I can only I just want to kind of because the chronology in my mind is a little muddled because what came first working with paramount in some capacity. This was at Twentieth Century Fox, I got the job, but it wasn't going to start until March something wealth is funny. How you remember those? Dates. And in the meantime, I got another job that I got a call can you come in and work for a couple of weeks for this guy, who's doing film in Europe, and he's designing the clothes and making them here for Charles boy, a Glenn Ford and pope Lang? And I said, yeah, sure, but you're going to only draw them in, and I'm going to you preferred to drill we'll know I was more used to join women. I thought, well, I can do it. I mean I'd had been to art school. I mean I could really do it, but it's tricky, if you don't do it all the time, you know, sudden here man look a little Nellie is to be real careful. Gotta look really Butch. There's Glenn Ford this Jean jacket and his jeans different kinds of t shirts, whatever and Charles Boyer and his pinstripe suit looking like European executive or whatever it was. But I did the job and we rented space at paramount in Edith heads, little suite of rooms as meaning that production that production. Yeah. Yeah. And I just came to work and there I am in paramount know needed heads area. I'm going through. Who's here we are in the first day, I'm sitting there at the drawing board trying to draw an in runs Judy gardens. Where's the women's room ladies room down the hall, and I went Judy Garland? That was fun. And it was like that there was just full of people all the time. Did you enter act with Edith head yet Edith? She came into see what this kid was doing and she'd come in every day and check on me and see what I was doing. And before I know it a couple of weeks later. Well, he actually I was doing the men's clothes, and then Frank Thompson, the designers, I haven't got time to hope Lang's close to draw those, I'll tell you what to do, and you do them for me could work an extra week or two. And so she was watching me do all this stuff, because she didn't usually draw the men's clothes was was that to you like having got over your shoulder. I mean she was of the. The greatest. I already knew I didn't think she was the best, but she was one of the smartest, okay? She could do a really good looking movie, and she everybody was happy. They all got what they read, and she pleased everybody if we designed something red for somebody to wear they came. So I hate reg who said read. Those and the next thing you know, I'd be drawing different color. We'll Sochi, so who was in your mind, the greatest, I didn't work with the greatest. I don't think I worked for John, the we who was really a wonderful glamorous, designer he did Rita Hayworth and guild and all those movies at Columbia. They did Dietrich's performance close although see-through dresses and stuff a little of that rubbed off on me. And while I was working with him on the Maryland, row film when they came in and said, here's address that went to draw you, blah, blah, blah. And I did. It was a gal to see through dress with diamonds all over it didn't tell me what it was for when you're that position, you don't have to know anything not your business. So I drew it and couple of weeks later, she was saying happy birthday. John Kennedy in that dress. And that dress in which recently sold for like five million dollars did or something. And then they asked me can you do some other sketches of her in that dress? I sold at an auction. As well. And I made some money. So it wasn't the worst thing in the we're now. But everybody seems to want to say I designed it, and I didn't I just drew what he asked me to draw. Well, so that's your job. Usually, there's some designers that worked for it will basically eat it. She said read the script see what you think you know, I read it, and she's what do you think she should be wearing here and here and here and here, and she says she's going for an abortion here? What do you think she should wear? I don't know. You know, the stupidest questions about, I guess you have to, you know, when you're a designer you have to think, well, she wouldn't put on a party dress, right? Go do that. So it was interesting, she would use his I'll be back after lunch. And she comes back, she looks this is cute. That's l. Shabelle sons in his office. I'm going to take these, she put pencils in her by as if she likes you just finished. And show them. Sometimes they said, yes. They said. No. And that was one of the most learning times in my life to say, what something basically that I'd drawn if they like that, or, or if it worked, or she liked it, even it's funny because people always talk about the fact I think she had more Oscars than that was because anytime the department would win when she got it now the individual. Well, yeah, but also sheep in those days, they had two kinds of Oscars for costumes. They had a technicolor movie and black and wind. So very often most of her Oscars are a big chunk of them, and she's a lot of Jove. She was great. She knew how to do interviews publicity and give recipes. And, and she was on art Linklaters house party every week. You know, she wanted everyone to know. She was, and when they know who you are very often when you're voting you go down. Oh, you did a good job. Not even seeing the move that happens. So after these first few years of sort of essentially freelancing, how did you end up with what I think, was the first steady job, I believe, beginning in sixty three with the Judy Garland show, which speaking of black and white, I think that was that was right? CBS was still black and white at that time. So for you. How did you end up there? And I think that was the beginning of another very important relationship. Well, actually, I was working pretty regularly paramount. And then withdrawn the we I worked on some Doris day movies and all those kind of stupid glamour movies that had names had nothing to do with the script, you know it's just the thrill of it all. So they laid me off it was April, and I thought, oh, it's April the beach is good. And I was collecting for the first time unemployment, which I was delighted, and my mother will my mother, my stepmother more than my mother, my mother kind of money just came shouldn't aware, but my stepmother, who was account. And she says, well, how long this job he's going to last. I said, no, it's just last to finish it. And then I'm off. She goes, wait a minute. That was really terrible. Now, you don't have a job, but I know I get unemployment because I can go back to it again. All of a sudden, she realized that was making more just doing this beginning job at this thing, then my father was making it the Bank of America like, not good. Okay. And she ended up working for me eventually, I really accounting office. But so Judy Garland show. You get there and who is the. I'll tell you how that word I met a friend at the costume gills thing and I got to know several of these young designers that were working. And you know, I was at the lowest lowest level of work on that thing. And I was still considering assistant sketch artist whatever they call that thing. So should maybe I don't know. We are not to dinner a couple times. I Finally I can go out to dinner with somebody and talk about things that I'm interested in because usually you don't just go out with people that you think you gonna have a hot date. Does it usually there's nothing to talk about? Anyway, he was hired to do the costumes, for the Judy Garland show, but not Judy Garland. And it turns out that because Judy who I saw going to the ladies room had just finished a film, in England with Edith that he'd have had designed not very well either awful looking anyway. She was going to do duties, costumes for this. And ADA, thin wanna really do television. She's in those days television was considered low class. Yeah, so she came in and the first show we tape, which was not the first one on the air is decided that she would have like a little black Leotard just add skirts for the whole show. And this show they wanted to change your down. Whatever a half a dozen times at least doing the show and the first show didn't look very good, a nice set derail, again, the designer of the show. Of the rest of the show, that's really dressed, those girls up in that Mickey Rooney number for show, had Mickey Rooney on, and we had all these glamorous, you know, kind of dancing showgirls and stuff. And I said, let's make them all really special. And there's poor Judy in her. Little black dress. Which, you know you have to fight for those things. And so we did that. And by the next week Ray was doing the costumes, all of a sudden, Judy was not the easiest person to kind of corral and control, because basically, at that point of her life. She was drinking a lot, a lot of trucks. Yes. And no. I mean when she was great. She was amazing just amazing. She was fabulous. That's the thing about her is when she was good. She was the best actress ever. She was just fantastic. But she was just so screwed up with things and insecurities. And I don't know. But Ray now you're working closely with I'm you guys set it off. Well, we hit it off very well. In fact, we became very close friends, and so we did the show and I, I ended up having to do all the course close for sure. And a lot of the guest stars. And we had the best guest stars ever. And because the show was kind of always in trouble. We had different directors. We had different Corey. Gophers different set designers even I mean it just changed as we went along, and I met all these people, these are people that ended up working with and for the next twenty years, fabulous in that respect. And I think right met lies lies. It was eighteen right? I think she had just finished working in New York. The us about forward or one of those shows, I think you had said in one of the interviews. I read preparing for this that it was sort of through the experience of seeing Ray, who was dealing mostly with Judy on that show. Seeing what that interaction was like that you learned. It's probably good to keep a little distance between yourself and your clients. Is that fair to say? Well, I always have I mean, I've always been good friends with clients. But I'm not their best best friend. I don't rush over instead at the end of the bed, and cry with them when they just just stopped, what I do because he was getting calls in the middle. And he did Judy like Tim along and they had a very good relationship, and he made her look at the clothes that we did for her would just like terrific, and she got thinner. So she looked good in them. But, you know, it was it was tough several times in the middle of the night things happen on that show to that woman, and she'd be back rehearsing the next day off to the hospital off to the horrible. I think you said that she had one of the weirder. Figgers that you had to have designed for what was her? She's four foot eleven that's a really short girl and long legs should this beautiful eggs, but really short little body. And so it was hard it was hard. But and somebody when they're that small, everything was small VCR in the old movies as a kid. She was tiny five pounds looks like fifteen when you put it on. It's just has nowhere to go. So I guess the big takeaway from your years, working on that show were just what learning to work quickly and sort of on the fly will anytime you do weekly television. You better work quickly. You're out of a job, and don't I spent a lot of my life, doing weekly Televisa and sometimes more than one show week. The first client that you really became personally associated with would've been Mitzi gainer. I tell you I love Mitzi Gaynor. That was yeah. That was my first star lady that decided she was going to really let me do it. And this is like. Nineteen sixty six she's gonna do review. What was I mean, we now, think of as the place for flashy, showgirl types up was it already that it was already and sheet loved clothes. And she wasn't happy about designer. She had before I think he drank a little too much. But that's another story anyway. We sat down and talked. And I was a fan of hers watching her from the time she was like eighteen in the movie. She was like, well South Pacific was she was already started by then. But when she went to FOX, she was just a kid, and they were like grooming, her to be musical comedy star, but musical, comedies, basically, declined in the next few years, where there weren't very many and if they were they had to be a big win like South Pacific, right? So she wasn't getting the work. She wanted. And so they decided to do a nightclub Mitzi gainer is miss show business. She knows how to entertain to this day to this day, she knows how to tell a joke fishy. Knows how to get a laugh and she's fabulous. And she loves clothes, and she loves to change every single number. She does it's another look. And you don't wait. Twenty minutes to see her, she's out like within seconds, and it was on the basis of her Vegas review that you kind of I caught the attention of Carol Burnett, right? Yeah. By sixty six sixty seven Rayan, I had done a special together by this time I was saying, if I'm gonna work this hard, I have to get equal credit. So we got equal credit on that he went off to London to Dr Doolittle and I ended up doing the whole damn show. But we got the first EMMY ever for. Right. And that was fabulous. And so Carol Burnett had watched that special because it had everybody in the world on it at Jimmy Durante. The smothers brothers was Alice, through the looking through the looking glass. Yeah. And then I won you know, we got Emmys. Yes. Customs ever went in the Emmys now. And then she went to see Ernie flat. The wonderful choreographer, who was on the Carol Burnett show for the entire Levin years was doing mid-seas. He's act. So he went to Carol in Joe Carol's husband to come to bagels and see it. So between the two things. Yeah, I was pretty much hired without ever talking to me. And so just to remind people this is eleven seasons that you did with Carol Burnett show. You've said, quote, not everything was designed. I would rent a lot of stuff, but we were doing fifty to seventy customs per episode and we had a show every week. We designed a lot of close me me for a five day, schedule where you start on Monday, and you're shooting on Friday was designed. But you know if. Was like a lot of Napoleonic uniforms or something, go to western costume, and get him because it was going to have time to do that, fifty to seventy costumes per episode is unbelievable. We didn't musical numbers this open the show of quite often. We did a big win at the end. Always, and then one little sketch, and blackouts and all kinds of crazy stuff in that show wasn't like one story. Help big a team though. Would you have working under you at that time, I had, I don't know, like a half a dozen I had one man, I went to high school, and he came in and I, I want you to help me with the men's clothes, because so many of those, we have to rent because of uniforms and whatever, and he was so talent to start with I'd have a meeting on Monday morning, and by Wednesday Thursday afternoon, it would be on Iraq ready to go and fitted and everything. He was great. And then Ray and night opened a shop called Lisbon, Courtney, costumes lisp. Courtney was the lady that had made all judy's, close on the Judy Garland show. And she was the lady that had done all. Work at Columbia for Marlene Dietrich and Rita Hayworth and everybody. She really understood how to make beautifully made glamorous clothes. And that's what I needed that set is off in the right direction. Because we were the first year on the Carol Burnett show. I was having terrible time working out of a costume house. The quality wasn't good enough, and it was just crazy. I mean, the shows looked okay, but it got better. When we have somebody that really knew what they were doing. I have to ask you, of course, about a couple of the most iconic customer from that show where this is going. Right. So let's start with the gone with the wind parody, where called went with the wind with starlet O'Hara, and of course, the Carden rod dress. So whose idea was this. It was mine. They wrote the script, it was the funny sketch to start with it was a long sketch was had a commercial in the middle. I think it was that long and Dinah Shore, played Melanie, and, and Harvey Korman played rabbit. You know, it was just it was funny. And Vicki Lawrence was butterfly McQueen. I mean, she was just like, fen tastic and funny funny funny. No black face. None of that. But she might as well had black face. It was she was she was good. I read the script as well. She takes down the drapes and runs up the stairs and comes down in the drapes. Well, I could make an outfit out of the drapes like they did in the movie, and even in the movie when she comes out dressed in the drapes she start to laugh because you say, yes, sure she made that out. And of course she did. Yeah. How clever is Scarlett O'Hara? I just wasn't coming. You know, it just wasn't working I had an outfit that I had made for another special that was like a version of the one from the movie it was part of a musical number, and it was about fashion. And whatever in there it was the green, it was all ready to go would fit Carol, but assess not funny, just putting on fit that looks like the one in the movie. That's not funny. At all. What am I gonna do? It isn't the only thing on the show. There's a million different things on that one shell. And that's the one thing that was driving me crazy. And finally, came to me, what to do just to put the rod in, you know, in hang it on her and Carol ca pull it off better than anybody. She must have been so blown away by great contribution. I had her come in, and I, I have to show you, I think this is going to work, and she started to laugh. Tillis and we kept secret kind of so Harvey, the first time you saw wouldn't well, first of all, I think she showed him because she didn't want him to break up. But usually he would. Right. Right. Well, that guy, one of the biggest laughs, I think shows ever, it was the funniest time I usually was never on stage. But I was up at the top of the stairs. Because her dresser was like five foot tall is tiny little woman, and she's up at the top of the stairs. You have to climb a ladder to get to, to put the thing on her, so she could come out. We never cut on those shows, we would do a whole chunk whole sketch, and then they would cut and change the scenery. Because we had no fly space. I said, I'll go up. I'll get it on her. We'll get it on her. We'll get the whole thing on her. I'll help you. And so we stood there as she walked down the stairs. And the place just like it was like, vibrant. It was like, what do they call that thing in the movie theater, where everything's shakes allowed? It was like that. It was weird. That's cool. Well, I heard you heard some feedback from the actual gone with the wind costume, designer Walter Plunkett, designed that whole movie was wonderful. Designer a period close through all the forties and the fifties and sixties. I mean he was really, really good. He wanted to sketch. She says I have a sketch of that he loved the that out and I gave it to him, and then he, he was funny. He gave me a sketch of me in a race with Edith head. Which I have to this day I treasure a little cartoon of me in the cartoon of Edith. And I got I'm holding onto feathers and beads. And, and she's got her Oscars under her arm because the men in Hollywood. Most of the men designers Hollywood just hated her. They hit her. She was such a publicity hound and was more important than the actual work, right? As a rule. I liked her. I liked working with it because I got to design more, but the men any men that you ever talked to about, if it was like there is a furious one other custom from Carol Burnett years. Mrs Wiggins dippy secretary, well, Tim Conway late Tim Conway, who is brilliant, rope that sketch and wrote it for himself and for Carol and he wrote it as an elderly old lady just who is the secretary and couldn't get it together. And we had done so many sketches about. Old folks, Harvey and Carol and Caroline, then everybody would put on their gray wigs and their, you know, their print dresses in their body pads and be old people. And, you know, we've been so much of this, and there was a group called the gray Panthers at the time. I said the gray Panthers have been sending you letters and they're not happy can't, we do somebody different than that because it's gotten. So it's not really funny anymore, and she agreed with me and she's all what should we do? And I said, let's dress like those temps that come in that sit at the desk, and watch the clock and do their nails and don't get much done and don't know how to do anything. And so we gave her a faira Fawcett hairdo and push up bra and tight skirt slit of shuffle. Well, she had walked with her knees together. Now sick out your but, you know it was like one of those things, and she goes, oh, I get it. Okay. And it became a regular very often certain characters in the show became regulars. But sometimes we'd say, oh, we think this could be. Regular we'll do a whole character. And then it just lays there doesn't get repeat escape. But that same thing happened when she was doing her impression of glorious once and sunset Lamar as Nora Desmond. She was Nora wasn't much of a different name. Those eleven years with Cowburn show, then were doing mama's family, all kinds of other things mama's family. I did with red Turner who I later worked with a lot on the share show. But I had to stab the look of the mama's family group and so- Joe Hamilton, who was care were nets husband at the time he gave me some money every week just for having established the original. So I basically didn't do moments family, although I did get an MBA with red, and we tied with dynasty, which was really funny because this is this is like low end low class plenty close. And there was dynasty with all this beads and shoulder pads and whatever, you know. Right. Well, what was it? The I mean, I guess you and Carol to this day. Same. A very special bond. Thank you really hit it off to the extent that you would work for all of those years together. When you I know you were also doing other things simultaneously and those I'll mention in a second, but I mean that's a pretty similar in many ways. You know, her grandmother, brought her up her parents were both troubled and alcohol, and whatever. And so they lived in the same maybe apartment house, but she and her grandmother lived together, and they went to the movies a lot. So she knew all these movies. She's a little older than me. So she knew some that I didn't really know them. Well, but basically, when we would do our movie takeoffs, which we did many after a while, you know, really a lot. We really got it. And I said, well, what if you do this, and then I made her special eyebrows for Joan Crawford. The fifties Joan Crawford. The eyebrows just became the caterpillars, and I think they really grew they were real really. You know, I went to the way glady, and we made little ones on we lace and they glued them on. And she has the best time, she would do anything for a laugh as long as it's a good laugh, we just had her on the podcast, a few months ago and she was she the best she's singing. You're absolute best, but also fun to hear her. Talk about you, and now get to hear you so. Well, that's, but we really she trusted me. So no. Don't black that tooth out black the win over here. That, that one's out the Senator when I think is like a hillbilly number. But I mean when is it your sense, I don't, I don't have the sense that, that many stars of TV show or movie have that much trust. And willingness to work with their custom design what stars have have shows like that. No, there's constantly change characters and, and don't mind. Looking bad or funny or weird or whatever she would do anything. What's the closest thing today? Saturday Night Live. I mean, live is certainly owes the bit of debt to the Carol Burnett show and all those people that graduated from there. So funny, just idolize Carol Burnett. Yeah. And because of that, all of a sudden, I have Tina Fey, and, and pull they're all coming over and Becky Bubba. It's like really even know him, but they're so funny. They really know what we've done. And it's always good for. For me. I mean at least somebody's watching. Well, so it was in the midst of the quite early in the Carol Burnett show run that you I cross paths with one share rate. And we should just before you even elaborate on that. I thought one of the really one of the perfect quotes, she is said about you. I recently in the context of the share show, somebody was interviewing her, and she said without Bob macky. I would have been a peacock without feathers. Poetic. That was pretty funny. But had it. So how did you first meet in what were your first impressions? Will I you know, I knew about her as, as sunny and share, when they had their height of half a dozen hit records that they had they made a lot of money. And then all of a sudden, it was a novelty, and it just kind of, and they looked funny. They were like the world's first hippies visually, and I remember doing numbers, I worked on the Hollywood Pallister. Well, we did a number of elegant people and street people. And of course they all look like sunny and share that. I trust them. You know. So I knew who they were, and I thought, oh, they're coming on, and they're going to be in the finale, and it's a showboat, filming overnight care on the Carol Burnett show. They used to have people, the first year we would have, like, like young pop stars of sorts on the Carol Burnett show for the younger audience, because they weren't sure who their audience was, or would be so into walks, and I'm thinking he's going to be this big hulking girl with kind of gothi looking. Hippie clothes. She had a little mini dress on. She real hair and pigtails, and she's the most adorable thing ever. And, you know, and then she, she put on her little costume that we were doing for the, for the showboat finale, that, oh, look at that little figure. My god. She's beautiful, and she was kind of hand. It was summertime and I thought why she's cute. That's, that's, that's fine. And later on she was looking at me. We were going, we were I was fixing a just a little broken thread on a beat address inches wide like to have a beat address one day. Here. Now you just. Six thousand dresses. But we can't afford it right now. They were going through a kind of let period at low period of people knew who they were. But, but they weren't getting booked they weren't selling records. It was, it was tricky, and that was at the time that they went off debates and redid the whole the whole thing and learn to do comedy. And you don't learn overnight. It calms you have to find out what works and sunny was brilliant about that. But even as early as I encounter on Carol Burnett show. She was expressing an interest in working with you. At some point or having she liked me actually, she thought I was cute. There you go. I was younger I was younger then. And I was all it was summer. I was tanned. My hair was all curly blond, and she thought she, she tried to put a move on at least just liked me. You know. And she thought, oh he's young. He knows she doesn't. She never had any any confidence in anybody older. And for her older was over third. Really? Really was at the time she says, you know, I'm never going to live past thirty that just don't it's not worth it. Okay. Well, I was just I was pushing that direction very quickly at the time. And I went, well, whatever she saw son is already thirty four. But she said she was the child. One day Bob macky. You're going to design clothes for me so much, I think, in her mind, she thought of that, and then all of a sudden she in sunny were cast on some specials that I was I was booked for this is like a few years later now just a couple of years year two. There was two or three things that I did with her. And then then we make it a little more money and could you could you do this? I gave her nest met of what we could do, and showed her sketches and show sunny wasn't about to spend that money when you're ready. I'll be don't worry and she always liked what I did for on these specials because she was paying for that. Right. And by seventy one I got this call from share, she's I'm doing this TV show for the summer summer replacement and I want you to do the clothes. I share them. I'm going on vacation in, but I ended up doing because you just she's you. The thing relentless summer replacement shows, and I did several of them those days because I wasn't you know, you know, in the summer, you don't everyone's on vacation, so you take the job and nobody ever had enough money usually had to shop it, if you could and. And I said, fine, you know, we'll do it, but then it was such a, the producers are so good as was the Sonny and Cher show share show, and they had all these great ideas and laughing at already made its place on the scene. So we knew that things were different than you had quickly Greg cuts and lots of little gags and things, and it worked beautifully for them and for you, it actually was kind of convenient, because you still doing herald Burnett show where were they in relation to each other? Well, they were next door. The same. They rid of adjoining studios, you had to go through the men's room to get to one or the other or the ladies room and share just because she just wanted, she would walk through the men's room, some coming through boys. All these guys at the urinal flinching but, but it was she would just laugh that was fun. Well, one of the things I couldn't Klay round my head around. I read that you said the Carol Burnett and share, quote, were almost identical in measurements until you would trade drew outfits well, in the first in the beginning, there was any budget and Carol had been on the air already sixty seven. So Carol had had a Minnie mouse costume if share needed him. Any mess costume it fitter perfectly. They had the same measurements. They had they were the same height. They're the same sign, but they don't look anything would've thought. But nobody Carol has a whole other other whatever it is Sona persona. She's like. Like the funny lady next store who's quite chic, but, but not ultra glamorous like that. And so it was always funny, when they would share, they would they would do shows together over Carol's show, and then she would come over and do a whole all show share where she and they work great together. They were so different. And yet, yet they, they could sing together, they do all kinds of comedy on threatening. Yeah, it was it was quite quite happy. The some of those early early shows, you can still see they're coming out with the whole whole collection of sunny shares. Cher shows from that period for you doing a lot with sequence prior to working with share where it. How did come? No, no, no sequence. Everyone's like sequence come out of my blood or whatever. It just happened that she was glamorous and fun. I used them where I needed them was thirty gainer had her share. But that that was just you do it in the right way, for the right person. Now, people seem to think alike away do that. But it was because of the sheriff because the share shows where right? So can I ask you about a few of these again, just like we did earlier, just like firstly in the comes to mind about a few of these iconic dresses you did with L fits with share? Let's start with the seventy four met gala, this is the sort of nude. Caused the stir. It did it did cause a bit of a stir it a breach. Let me see if I can remember when it came right out. Nobody had really seen her in this dress. It was photographed for vogue magazine for their holiday issue. The met ball used to be, and it wasn't anything like it is now, it was just a party in wonderful exhibit of closed, and it was the Hollywood exhibit. Dan land had come out to Hollywood and gathered up things from the archives and whatever and, and also she's looking over she'd seen the share she'd already been on for a few years by that time. It was nineteen seventy four that the minimum was. So she looked at all our clothes in the way they were made now beautifully. They were made. I mean they were like a tour clothes, and she just got very excited. So all of a sudden here I am practically a beginner I had I had share fits in there at Carol Burnett. I had Barbara Streisand. Enough. It's in that exhibit it was fabulous for measure Alrighty working with Barbara too. Yeah. We. Yeah. We did. I'm trying to think that. So it was in funny late. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Lady on your first Oscar. No. It came out in seventy five but we glossed over you'd already had an Oscar nomination for lady, sings the blue diner, Roth Ross, then three years later, for funny, sixty eight I did, especially with her and got another. Emmy. Oh, my guess, so this, I have nine Emmys now and it's kind of like an one in one Tony nomination. Well, then that will update that in a few days. Okay. So the and the dress from the ball also was the same one that was on the cover of time year later it wasn't a year later. It was just a few minutes, a few months. Yeah. And at that point sunny and share had broken up and I took it to the met ball. Right. And it was fun. And she had done the photo session for Richard Avedon in the dress. And nobody paid that much attention. It was in vogue, and it was black and white, and all of a sudden and so we send her off. I with her to, to the met ball in both of us real looking pretty good. We were young and whatever, and people were like, oh, oh, visit photographers all of a sudden appeared just if somebody has if they if they're trying to visualize what we're talking about. It's a nude colored. But also there's quite a bit. That's visible very sheer dress, right? All beaded. And then with little little feathers vulture feathers. Everybody thinks they're all mulcher feathers stripped, vulture. And so was that address that you were particularly or not drilling is one that I did that I wanted to, to make a little bit of noise? When we when we invoke bags, Zine vote magazine layout, was interesting. It started at turn of the century and worked its way up through the through the decades to the nineteen I wasn't nineteen seventies, I guess, you know is futuristic what? Ever. Anyway, anyway, she wa-. She is what he what do you think we should wear to the to the metropolitan? And she's all my wanna wear that new dress. Well, of course it was new. It was, it was so see-through and all these kind of divas of a moment. Ribeiro. Dressed up. But not that good. Bianca jagger. Orissa Berenson's in all these ladies that were that moment in time, they were the Hutsi dot CS, and we sat down freelance table, and she had poet guarded forties movies there. And and I just had the best time that night. And of course, I had stuff in the exhibit and she got photographed by million. I mean, share every, every photographer there when omega now we can really do something. And it was in every paper the next day. Blake, not everyone Carol Burnett could have worn that outfit was share that would want to push the edge, or was it, you encouraging her. It was share, but share could wear anything. There was nothing on shares body at that moment in time that ever hung over, or she could be stark naked in wasn't Boettger, right. It's one of those beautiful bodies will. So you don't have that forever. But well the two Oscar dresses. We gotta talk about nineteen eighty six when she's been snubbed for mass. Now, she's got a present, and she's not happy with them, right. Well, she, she had been doing these movies mask. She just was a motorcycle chick. And then the other one she wore jeans, and sweatshirts of silk would and she hadn't been her glamorous sell for a while, at all and nice. Well, what do you want? How do you wanna look? I knew she didn't wanna look just in an evening. Gown. How would you what would you like to? Well, I don't wanna look like a housewife you know, in an evening gown, and I don't think you will there. Yes. But she's let's do something Indian, like we used to because she was kind of done the half breed and all of that. Now, she can't even wear the war on its anymore because the Indian ladies are getting upset. Prominent can wear that. But I mean, this is like forty some years later, he decided to will ladies shouldn't wear that. Well, you know, it's a little late which think, and then two years later when she won for moonstruck she had quite an outfit as another kind of see-through we. But, but very share like, and there are a lot of people were just horrified saying, we'll fashion people, that's not fashion and said somebody asked me about it. No, it's not fashion. It's her Hirsch. That's what she wanted to wear. I didn't push on her. In fact, very often. I'd say sure you wanna go this far. Yeah. Yeah. And what do you think was driving her to? She liked the attention. She wanted to enjoy it while she had the body for that or what boat. Yeah. You know. And she looked good. It never you can never say, she didn't look good in all shook to mazing, and got that girl is how to get press. She. And there there's poor done amichi's who received the award, which she gave it out. It would jed that black Mojaki dress and bare midriff and all this black. I mean she she looked like the grim reaper. Right, right off the reservation, and there was photographs Donna meets you said the next days that if she hadn't been there giving me that award. They wouldn't have printed any pictures. He was he was very happy. So if I mentioned, just a few of these other clients of yours just the can you share the first thing that comes to mind, just the Senator to I'll try, that's not my best. Well, I'll give it a we mentioned already that you I worked with Diana Ross in that there was a special, I think, in nineteen sixty nine and then. Right. You did lady sings the blues and right through. Yeah, I worked for their a lot for several years. Now, she does her own national, okay? But I think you'd said, she would borrow share slept. But like. Ross, Diana Ross, and share became really close friends. Fact, the shared a boyfriend at one point. I mean not at the same time, but, you know, it was that crazy guy, gene Simmons with the big Tunc anyway. He was shares boyfriend voice, smart, gene Simmons is really smart guy, and she needed to be with a smart guy. And then I guess it didn't work out before you know it he was he was hanging out with Diana Ross. Oh, don't ask me. I was. All I knew what I read in the paper. All right. So let's her Barbara Streisand. We talked about, you got the Oscar nomination for funny lady lady, which. In other interviews, this is not going to break any news, nothing. Nobody's before. A little bit difficult. What are difficult? She just I mean from she was on the Judy Garland show. And there's this new girth twenty one or whatever she was, and she bought some talion shoes they were white and they didn't match her out fit. And she'd never had shoes that expensive inner life at that point. Now, of course. Yes, everything, but, and I said, well, I can die them down for you. You can and she could she? She wouldn't trust me, and I said, well, the die down stairs inches. All right. So she goes with me all the way down into the wardrobe department, and I mixed the die, and we had a little sample of the color, then I put it on, on a piece of the satin from her shoe that, that comes with the shoes and got it, right. And I was going to die them. And she took the darker away from me. And she died them herself, standing there, and I thought, well, this is the way she you can't, you can't change that, that's, you know, talk about control, and always questioning everything, everything everything. But that spark bre, you know, you don't you don't worry about it. The woman was smart, smart smart. Still smart, of course. And as as great sense of, of how she wants things to look, Tina Turner, I think that she and share had worked a lot together, as well right now this was when I was just left the picture. Well he was there. First time I saw Tina Turner. She was with the I can Tina review. You know with the girls I contain. And I thought, wow, look at her. That's a star. That's not a backup girl, that's a star. And then then he made her a star in new Easter. I contain a review today daughter. I mean you know, she was more exciting than he ever was. And then he was he wasn't a good guy in many ways. And so she was trying to lead him. And she was being booked into variety shows and things going to entertain believable, and they were kind of going from hotel to hotel, she and her assistant. So he couldn't find her, and it was a little tricky. And then they decided to she needed to make some money and at a nightclub act now and I dressed her up for the nightclub act, and I gave her all kinds of crazy outfits, because she always should come in, and she'd bring old kind of not expensive evening, gowns. But once she'd find in Paris, at least little shops, and things not, not couture. And she wanted to make them more more cavewoman like. Okay. You know, and we put it on, and I'd start cutting, and pinning and I cut away pieces and make it ragged. And that became kind of her look and before I knew it. I was designing stuff for people always ask about the women. But what about Elton John? Like I trust them, like sort of a male showgirl. Let's well, not really. You know, he I said to him, I said, I had done some things for him on the on the share special with Miller and Elton, and that's a great show. If you get a chance to see it, it's still works beautifully. And would you ever do clothes for me? And I said, well, sure, I'd love to what kind of things would you like 'cause I know he, he wore overalls little t shirts little jackets and kind of he was like a little dickens character almost in that time he was he was kinda rounded, but, but he wasn't chubby. It was just it was good. But, but he wanted to dress up and he loved glitter. And he loved jewelry. I mean, the Spagna Scott and buy diamonds, give them to people because he just loved buying whatever. I don't know anyway. And I said, well, what would you like to do some things like shares? And I went oh. Okay. Sure. And so I drew some things up, you know, jumpsuits that had holes had mirrors around them. And, and one time we had a big, big feather Cape, that went clear across the stadium stage and he was carried into the stadium by this practically naked mister world, black band who became later became my, my trainer jam. I heard the whole all the all the good stories. Anyway. That's another story. Anyway, it's so he carried him in and set him down. And he had like an aviator cap of just mirrors like mirror ball in the lights were hitting. It was pretty pretty funny. He loved that, because, you know, this is somebody who sits piano and just plays one song after another things is exciting. But he wanted more than that he wanted to be, you know, like it was like a new age. Liberace. Yeah. In fact, in the movie, I just saw the movie the other day. He's asking his mother sub in, and she's sitting there in the television watching Liberace over here, and she's not approving of him. Poor Elton at all. And I'm thinking, yeah. Okay, I get that. For the Oscars. In addition to the three nominations lady, sings, the blues funny, lady, and pennies from heaven, you also worked with them in other years. I know that in eighty eight I guess she did a bunch of costumes for them and got an EMMY nomination for that, then you did for who for the, the Academy Awards, the but then there was another thing with where when we'll be Gobert was hosting in ninety nine she caught out in the used to do those, those shows musical numbers that everybody in New York hates because you're on it. You're watching it at midnight is horrible. But now things have gotten a little bit. So. Okay. So those were something to do with the but other outside the box things, I mean, you did Barbie, people forget that you did sometimes forget that you did. RB was just like a joke kind of the beginning. Yeah. Sure. I'll do Barbie. And they had all the seventh avenue designers would do an Oscar de LA Renta Barbie. And Donna, Karen Barbie, and whatever. And I said, yeah. Sure. I'll do a Barbie but I can't just do a cocktail dress. I've got to do something that people expect me to do otherwise why do a Barbie to start with. So what did that mean? Well, I did I did Barbie that was kind of share like, but because they weren't paying her to be share share I made her blonde. Completely blind, which share is a lot of the time. But anyway, it's it was kind of gold, and it was very glamorous. And the Harris pulled back and had a cone with a big long, blonde ponytail, the doll came out the next. I don't know whenever six months later, whenever they do it, you know, it's got be made in China and whatever. But all of a sudden Madonna was doing her tour, and she had plot this big blonde ponytail with a cone, and it was like the dole look like Madonna doll, and it became this huge selling doll and all of a sudden, he's which do more for us. You know. So I was doing these sort of like, like Barbie meets less Vegas, whatever every year. A lot of years group of people. Yeah. Forty some dollars later but I don't do it anymore. One thing that I read, which I was surprised to discover was, you said, quote, the fashion world, never really accepted me. I was always a costume designer not a fashion designer close quote. And I know that you had tried, I think from eighty to ninety three you'd had a studio in seventh avenue. Right. Right. Don't we did good business, but they always, they always thought that I was, I don't know that it was too glamorous to theatrical. And then, of course, I couldn't I couldn't stand do a show bashing show without doing finale that kind of like made him Waco and have a good time and their show pieces. And you'd have a few pieces that you never sold. You just it was kind of good for presser whatever. But has that changed with time to people, I mean, it's crazy to me, I think fashion designer, I think of you, I, I can't imagine that you're saying that the within the industry, they're still that kind of snobby. No, it's kind of changed now recently at the met ball. I, I met all these European designers that were around middle aged. Now, they're younger middle-age, whatever that is that we're young kids in school. When I was doing all these share shows in different kinds of Vegas. Big huge Vega shows and stuff because that was so much fun. And they were watching me, I didn't even know. I knew all their names. They were famous, but when they were in school, they were collecting pictures of stuff that I had done, and they knew who I was and all this nonsense, and I was in California, you know, just jumping out all that glitter. And flash. So they they've now it's now kind of grown into it with the people who are now all of a sudden now, they're saying you were such a huge influence on fashion, and you change the whole look of the red carpet that you did this, this this, and they just gave me the other night for it. So it's you know, a lifetime achievement award. I'm going really after all this years. They finally got it. Yeah. But it's okay, I wasn't unhappy. I I love doing what I do. We'll so to have a full circle moment here where you get to the share show. Now they tell you, they're gonna do the show and you're not not only are they wanna use your fashion in it, but they wanna have you as a character in it. What did you make of that? And, and what did it entail from first of all, the producer of floaty Suarez came to see me? I almost twenty years ago, not quite nineteen or something like that. And said I had this idea to do a Broadway musical about share, and he says. You have to do the costumes, you just have to. And I said, well, when you get it all together and get the money, get the producer, whatever, whatever. Just call me. You know, I'm sure it'd be fun to do. And this went on for many years, and it never happened. I never thought it would at that point, you know, after after a few years, you think, well, these probably board with the idea, and he's going on. But it turns out that they were doing it, but the director that they'd hired had another designer in mind whatnot, even designed. Well, she's a designer but she's really stylist. And how you do the share. How can you do share show with a stylus? You're going to go over to the sax and pick up a few share. It's. But I still like to do it, and it was their choice. I mean how much work was this? They wanted to know who owns those who owns those designs. And I on. Yes. So they were gonna they were gonna pay me to do them. But then houses person got to know how to make those close because they're not. You know not regular just drop sketch. Wait and hope to come back to that. Right. Right. Anyway. How many share insisted that I do it? Yes. And then it was was it, but I mean, it's a can't recall seeing show where the costumes get applause, maybe once in a while. But like this was what it was just. It was it was geared for that. I mean I didn't add that that was already in the script before I ever arrived on this. No, I know. But I'm saying it it's amazing testament to you, the people, you know, even before your character think gets, let's talk about that. You've got a guy playing you in a Broadway show. Well, that's weird. When you've never had that be dress yourself, all of a sudden, you know, you're not you're not Addison, or Roosevelt or somebody that there. I am Bob macky up there. This guy with a blunt way, gun singing, and dancing, and all these girls, dressed to the nines. It's really fun. At the end of the show. They come out in their what you've called warrior, goddess outfits. The whole thing is like a great spectacle. No, but I mean it's beautiful. And so to be nominee for Tony for the first time to be going into this on Sunday. You know, and just all the sort of pre. She's been coming your direction, as a result of this show, and the whole kind of all the memories that brings back about all your other work. With share is, is that what's that been like for you? It's been crazy. I didn't expect it really. I thought we'd get nominated, but I've been getting a lot of attention. Let's, let's hope after all this attention. A get one. And you don't do show to get an award. I mean that's not why you do it. You do it because you love doing other if you didn't love doing these kind of close you'd wanna commit suicide because hard just playing hard. But it's I mean it's this is incredible. The fits in this, I, I'm not somebody who knows very much about, I can tell. Her her whole persona for so many years was about what is she wearing right? What is she going to wear? And people would watch the TV shows in the old days, not just to see there's a fascination in charisma about the woman, people really are always interested in her in her life in the way she looks which is going to wear of, and then, of course, our songs, and people, I see people in the in the theater that, that were must've been kids when, when that show the shows were on the air, they know all the words, they get up and dance. It's crazy. Whole bus loads from New Jersey come roaring full of full of people to see the share show. I mean it's just really kind of amazing just some big picture closing just the first game. I talked too much thrilled. I really appreciate it. All right. So you began designing clothes at a time, I guess, when the average American would still dress up nicely to go to Broadway show or to get on an airplane, or stuff that is. Out the window today. Right. So how do you feel about that, as somebody who loves clothes and fashion? Whatever do you think that society overall is let it go? Yeah. I think I think most people just go just go outside eight avenue, and take a look, you know, it's pretty scary for the most part, people, people have gotten very fashion has become very casual which is a good thing that closer wearable, and easy, and you're comfortable, you can do your work, but, but it doesn't translate to sloppy. And that's what I see everyday or just just downright, but ugly, right? You just go. Wait a minute. You're you're on the street. Go home and get dressed, especially here in New York in the minute. It's warm lookout. You see more skin you ever want to. Okay. So now for somebody who's known for it to use your word. And I think it I mean it only in the best ones, but like for flashier, right? Flashy outfits, a lot of your most famous, outfits or flashy. You yourself. I've always read, and I guess you dress, pretty conservatively is how do you reconcile those two things? So I'm not a drag Queen. But you don't have the same sire. Docket, though, never will know I like to be dressed if it's if it's the right thing to do. I went to that ball. I mean, everybody was dressed up like people thought I dress. Tuxedo. This. It's I I'm not you know, not looking for looking for our designers. However, that do like to dress up a bit just who do you most wish you'd had the chance to dress. But didn't I don't know. You can't. No love those old movies is there. Somebody those. Yeah, I mean I, I could have actually addressed Monroe very well. But I, I was working for somebody that was, and it was doing very well, but then we never they never finished the film. So or you know, I love as a little kid, I love, Betty Grable. I loved all that stuff. I wish many times wish I live back in the thirties and forties. Fifties. When they were doing all those musicals and stuff, I, I would have been at home there, but that's one, but whatever when you look at fashion today, where do you see your greatest influence? And what do you hope will be your greatest legacy? I don't think about legacy. I don't. Everybody has to do what they do. We're all influenced by what you learn as you grow up. You know, you see things things you like maybe your mother had a favorite dress when you were five years old. And chances are when you're thirty five being a designer and seventh avenue you might do address kind of like that, because you just think it was so beautiful. And maybe it was, you know, so who knows just do the best you can and get through life. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks very much for tuning into awards chatter. We really appreciate you taking the time to do that, and would really appreciate you taking a minute more. Subscribe to our podcast for free on I tunes or your podcasts up and to leave us a rating as well. If you have any questions comments or concerns, you can reach me via Twitter at Twitter dot com slash fiber. And you can follow all of my coverage between episodes at T HR dot com slash the race. Finally, be sure to check out the other podcasts that are part of the Hollywood reporter's podcast network, all of which are excellent Lesley Goldberg, and Daniel, Feinberg, TV's, top five set the branch and chip pope's. It happened in Hollywood Caroline. GR. Dina's behind the screen, and Josh wiggly's series, regular on behalf of all of us at the Hollywood reporter. Thanks for tuning in.