18 Episode results for "Bob Dylan"

116 - The Bob Dylan Archive - A Curveball Comes To Tulsa

The Kitchen Sisters Present

27:40 min | 2 years ago

116 - The Bob Dylan Archive - A Curveball Comes To Tulsa

"May come as no surprise. But Bob Dylan is a keeper Bob and his team have been archiving, his music, notebooks paintings and journey for some five decades, thousands of artifacts price this collection of American treasure. Bob kept just about everything a massive private archive of a notoriously, private person housed in storage, facilities in New York, Minneapolis, Malibu and jersey. So it made headlines when word got out that this secret archive had been sold was headed to its new permanent public home in Tulsa, Oklahoma a curveball. Nobody saw coming. Some are cubs are scholars Devaux tease of writer, scientists, or storable figure some archives are tourist attractions. Few are part of a vision for the civic rejuvenation. Of a once riding American city today. The kitchen sisters present the Bob Dylan archive, a curveball comes to tell sir produced by Davy Nelson and Nikki Silva in collaboration with Livia wear and Samuel Shelton Robinson. We are sitting in the offices of lead hearts bookseller that twenty was fifty fifth street in New York City, if you're looking for the keepers, I, maybe simply the converts. The league of my life, my loins. Greece steps down the power to flee on the need. We taking care of catalogs than sold the papers of a lot of novel Buckminster fuller, the Watergate papers of Woodward and Bernstein, the archives of Norman Mailer John uptaken, David madman, this record message. Two young people. Be cool. Turn. Tune in drop. Lyrics archive films. We've got an important part of what we have worked. We've handled the papers ranching from directors Nickless Ray and Abba, Maizels eighty way think of Ray guides. Tytler phone? Wonderful, but yes, I think that's one of the other ideas mother liked the name just a minute. Would you rather have? Great. Video. Why? You'll have to think airland. Yeah. Says she she better talk. They might think it was a. They might be was a movie about flowers. You know, Greg on the. Penny. Baker Monterey is very groovy man. This is our generation man. All you people are all together mad at school musical Arcos, David Byrne poll, Simon you'll you'll Judy Collins and most notably in recent memory Bob Dylan. Just one man. Playing the mouth harp and the guitar. You must be twenty years old now twenty. I was fortunate in that I had been asked number of years earlier to craft a transaction between a group salsa, the George Kaiser family foundation. And the state of Woody Guthrie forties papers, which they were very keen on bringing back to of. So in the unity to do something with Bob's are have was presented to me. I was pondering where to go with it kept going back today that it could be a somewhat more inventive solution than the traditional one, a Harvard or Yale Fibro all of them. Do a great job. The those sticking Bob into Harvard next to the ruffle. Emerson the John Updike papers at some level, I suppose it had an appeal reflecting on this bomb said, I don't need to spend eternity sitting next to James Joyce. Oh. Rambo WC fields. The family. You know, the trap piece family in the circus. Smokey rubs. Ellen ginsburg. Charlie rich. Think of people that analyze dogs today is them with the same boat. I welcome them. Open. Mark Davidson Mets director, the mob, Dylan archive testicle for home a minute. What are these, these large red tanks are the fire suppression system in the volts, if there is a fire these tanks will suck out all the oxygen stop the fire in his tracks and protect the archive, subsequently kill everybody in there. But it'll keep the fire down. I feel a little bit expendable but for a good cause. I'm going to read a couple of items balls. Bring them out ninety two grid. Niro gloves. This was the tampering expired, Mr Cameron big frame drum with an animal skin head there. Our Jingle Bells stapled to the inside. They rattled thusly the black leather jacket Dylan war when he went to electric at Newport in nineteen sixty five we have every take of every recording. Bob Dylan ever did tens of thousands of files music dome and photography to document of his working lock. Into the room. Video pennsylvania. See somebody naked in you say, who is that man? Gend as FOX containers manuscripts from the nineteen sixties starting with chimes of freedom from another side of Bob Dylan nineteen sixty four on waldorf-astoria Toronto Ontario, hotel note paper, handwritten cigarette burns, the lyric manuscripts for bringing it all back home, subterranean homesick blues, maggie's farm highway sixty one like a Rolling Stone, Beleta, thin man news. Michael shakin. I'm the curator Bob doing archive in Tulsa, Oklahoma for the George Kaiser family foundations interest in this archive was the be able to use it in a more civic, fashion, George Kaiser freely amidst that he's not a tremendous Bob Dylan face on chapter and verse and by doing, but he has a vision for Tolson and understand Bob Dylan's outsize role in American culture. What he represents, how many people who labor in the same musical vineyard in which you toil are protests singers, that is people who use their. Music and use the songs to protest the social state in which we live today. The matter of war, the matter of crime or whatever it might be come any. Yes. Are there many? I think there's about. Six. You say about one hundred and thirty six. You mean exactly hundred thirty six. Thirty six hundred forty to the Kaiser foundation buying the Dylan archive looking at it as a way to connect with the work, they're doing in Tulsa, early childhood development. Health care, Oklahoma has the highest incarceration rate of African American women is a big civic component to the Dylan archive, we look for strategies to invest in young children to enhance their odds of success, reducing teen pregnancy, dealing with the correction system making reforms in the way we over incarcerate people civic projects to try to make our community or virus. More inclusive. More interesting Guthrie green is heart focused on performing arts with big free family, friendly events, Stanton Doyle senior program officer over the arts, George Kaiser family foundation. The gathering place is hard to describe the name, the place was very much Georgia's idea. We wanted to create community spot for folks. From across the economic and racial classes of Tulsa could come to an enjoy it really first class park experience or all people would feel welcome, and it would have the function of helping us be more United and feeling a part of the community together. The idea of equal opportunity early intervention in the cycle of poverty. Let's driving principle for the nation. We sometimes get creative in how we tied together. George Kaiser is the Tolson. His family fortune came out of oil is many the family fortunes in Tulsa, have. He's part of this group of billionaires like gates wanted his fortune and put to good use. We had a sense starting ten or fifteen years ago that Tulsa was in a little bit of a rut, Tulsa, historically, has always had a very strong sense of community to some degree now. We're separated by geography by race. And by class, I focused in addressing my Lance repeat. Less on my life experiences than idea on what I thought the purest form of charity was to give all children equal opportunity at birth. No, newborn child bears any responsibility for the circumstances, his or her birth equal opportunity as diminishing commodity in the United States today. Georgia is Jewish bothered came to America. Having been disbarred, and Nazi Germany had been a judge and was on the run. They came to Tulsa, which welcomed them as an immigrant family and help them build a future. He's had every opportunity to be successful, and everybody else should have that same opportunity. We make the case that a strong and vibrant artistic community would lift up our economy, our culture in a way would also create more opportunity. If you'll gather round may children, eight story, I'll will tell. Divall flawed out. All. Hohmann, you him. Wale? George said, we ought to find great artists or musicians lyrical figures have Oklahoma roots, but their materials may be elsewhere and see whether we get the back to Tulsa, I had been enough of folk person. I guess what about what he got three? That's a great Oklahoma who had passionate interest in solving social problems in George kinda gave me the thumbs up. Here on oklahom-. Nothing must Lee nothing in the pocket. Nothing pocketbook. Nothing woody's daughter, nor was really taking great care on stewarding beautifully. The Woody Guthrie archives, and we eventually got a little help from the expert at making these kind of business arrangements about archives guy named Glenn Horwitz what he was constantly reading, and learning traveling, and picking up. He was a human sponge. I'm Dina MacLeod, executive director of the Woody Guthrie center until we're here to preserve what he's body of work and to share it with the public. So the archive is at the heart of everything that we do the first major project in the arts district. We undertook was the Woody Guthrie center, having woody's raw materials. They are where people could go look at the energy that had some impact landed your land land is my land. The California, the New York, I land senators and congressmen and governors and tens of thousands of children go through the centre later. Hans next this lady's your land. It's been defining feature for Tulsa, Oklahoma than we have the Woody Guthrie center up highway. I thought of me that the endless skyway all below me that golden valley. This land was made for you. We'll be back to our story in a moment. The kitchen sisters present is sponsored by simple health, making birth control, simple, convenient, and affordable with online prescriptions and free home delivery. The kitchen sisters believed that all women should have access to contraception regardless of where they live the amount of money, they make or other people's ideas about their reproductive choices. Simple. Health offers trusted brands of birth control, and licensed doctors review, every patient's application, they personalized recommendation based on your health profile and personal preferences. The annual prescription is usually twenty dollars but listeners to kitchen sisters present. Get to try simple health for free by going to simple, health dot com slash kitchen, sisters or entering code kitchen sisters at checkout. This service is not a replacement for routine evaluations by your primary care physician or gynecologist. It's just a way to make things. Simpler more convenient and less expensive go to. Simple, health dot com slash kitchen, sisters or enter code, kitchen, sisters at checkout. Story of the Dylan. Doc nisei at the break of noon, shadows, even the syllabus spoon. The handmade bleed the child's balloon eclipses both the sun and moon to understand you knew too soon. There's no sense in trying. Tosa was such curveball. People's reaction Tulsa is probably the reaction that multilateral, I also. But then when you start to scratch the surface a little bit. And you understand the crucible than Bob Dylan created himself out of. There's a lot of different fathers Guthrie with certainly big one for song, ever row with about Woody Guthrie. Hey, hey, what he got three road. Chew sound. Party. Let's come in lone. Same. It's time and it's torn. Gets diet. And that's hardly bam bolan also the native American collections. Here are unbelievable history is a fascinating history. We're in the belly of America. It's a real crossroads for culture for history. What do you got through center? And ultimately the Bob Dylan center is located in the heart of what's become the Tulsa arts district. Eight me back. This area is just north of the tracks in the early part of the twentieth century was a thriving African American community. There were spots of real distinction. The famous Cains ballroom birthplace of western swing. Big big. Doc. Cotton man gets the money was devastated by the nineteen twenty one race massacre. It's historically been a very divided place ignored and under resource for many decades, most communities, that have had a renaissance last twenty or thirty years have had a thriving arts where young people were drawn to marry that little diversity texture in it in. We didn't really have that. So we try to do some things around restoring some buildings there about five or six blocks. We've taken a strong interest in and brought restaurants. Housing, targeted for teachers musicians artists or social service activists to have subsidized housing and we've tried to do a lot of things all of this one zone. You wrote blowing in the wind and ten minutes. Is that right? Probably just like that. Yeah. Where do come from? It just came right out of that wellspring of creativity thing, you know, all those early songs almost magically written. There's a magic to that in. It's not Siegfried and ROY kinda magic. You know, it's a it's a different kind of penetrating magic. Smattering of photographs of Dylan throughout his career Dylan at care wax, grave at the concert for Bangladesh with Ringo, George Dylan's first encounter with respraying steam, where I'm told he said, I hear you're the new me bub doing center is going to be a nexus for the creative arts show off Dylan's restless creativity. But also celebrate the very notion of what restless creativity mean where all this stuff emanates from. I keep asking myself. Julius. One. We don't want it to be a shrine to Bob Dylan. There will be a permanent exhibition about his life. But in addition to that we really want people to come away, thinking about the creative process and the creative inside themselves. Steve Higgins, special projects manager, Bob Dylan project. Back in the vaults. These are Ida GMs that we rarely if ever pull out the more precious items Dylan's blood on the tracks notebooks. Little three by five nine thousand nine cents each spiral notebooks, incredibly fragile in these notebooks, Phelan wrote in the tiniest handwriting possible. Maybe an eighth of an inch toll the songs that would end up on blood on the tracks Dylan's, spider read microscopic handwriting is unbelievably, well with anybody goes to tell so most of the tracks, but my vices unless you wanna go blind look at the digitals gardens blood on the tracks. I loved it. I really enjoyed a we had talked before we talked about. Yeah. But Cording processes and how when they get very complex much of the truth of a piece of music is lost it becomes something else. And one of the things I enjoyed about blood on the tracks and nobody was that it was very simple. That's the way things are really there are basically very simple. The love. He will tell me the joy that out. My turf me to relate to that. I mean, people enjoying the type of pain, you know. I would lane. One, the Nici change it all I have to read the folks, they said, I live together. Don't be. Don't be the never did like mama's, homemade is thank was thinking. Standing on the. My heading up of these. Getting. The archival materials that we have here, shames the entire narrative about Dylan's life in work. I have no doubt. There will be studies that come out of the Bob Dylan archive in the next few years that'll change the entire game of Dylan scholarship, and that's exciting. Golmud the more you take the more you realize you're gonna keep ticking. You think you've reached the end of the line because they really can't be that much most stuff. But he's my name is Clinton Highland, I write books about musical history. Everybody from Morrison anguish. We're all punk rock books about software. Pepe. I wrote a biography until most people's gold up, which is called Dylan beyond the shades. The George Kaiser foundation purchase Dylan's own personal archive for twenty two million dollars. I've been here month doing research. The two volume biography of the double life of both Dylan. What I look for the holes in the story, and I tried to fill in the holes, essentially, I've had to start again sit a very full an eventful life. And because of the air that he was captured in a so much it's been documented what we didn't realize is that Dylan himself up command. Commodity. Judges everything it's like finding out that there fifty seven checks place, fifty checks but. But. Leave you. This is the role footage for the document, which is Dylan's not sixty six toll documentary. It's all of the cans. So it's hours and hours of the footage that the show on the European till I'm bump was being booed every show. Clinton is said that curious in the archive have changed the narrative for him. He is one of dozens of researchers who have come through from Japan Canada. France all over the United States artists and social thinkers, and community activists might want to be at a place called the Bob Dylan center celebrating the music and the words and the art of Bob Dylan. But trying to maybe take the next step as a place for artistic exploration expression bombs to nontraditional Arca. There's not all of his Hamanaka's would doing sit well at Harvard. I don't know. There's something deeper about being here in Tulsa, Oklahoma than in places that you would naturally assume Bob Dylan's might go, it goes back to this idea that this is a civic product. He sees himself as being part of a continuing. What about being a role model for so many of the people who are doing music today, not a role model? What are you? I'm just me. Why is it? You feel that your music or the us has meant so much to so many people being inspiring all that's been. All that's been the Bob Dylan archive story number ten in our series. The keepers was produced by the kitchen, sisters. Nikki Silva, and David Nelson in collaboration with Samuel Shelton Robinson. Jim McCain Olivia wear. Nathan Dalton and brandy Howell, thanks to Ted Savary's for his additional music special. Thanks to all of the Bob Dylan archive, who opened the Michael Chacon Mark David sin Benton Halen to the Kaiser family foundation, and Tulsa community foundation, Ken leather stepped Doyle and St. Fagan's to Dina MacLeod, the Woody Guthrie center, and to Glenn or a wits. Thanks to the helmet center for American research at the hill crease museum where the Bob Dylan archive is presently house, and we're big red tanks a waiting to suck the oxygen out of the air should fire strike in. To protect their remarkable collections including one of the original copies of the declaration of independence, the articles of confederation and one of the largest collections of native American art and artifacts in America, along with the Buckton archive special. Thanks to George Kaiser and the Kaiser family foundation for their visionary, work on behalf of city and deep devolve Dylan for your pack rat. Unim- made me on this. The kitchen sisters present is part of radio topa from PR ex a curated network of extraordinary podcasts created by independent producers. We wanna tell you about one of our favorite radio, Pierre shows the truth, they've just released a five part series called the body genius. It's dark comic mystery that winds through a treacherous fictionalized Hollywood, where looking the part might cost you your life. You know how sometimes a famous actor has to get really jacked to play a superhero in a movie. Or lose a ton of weight to play a prisoner or a psychopath, or put on fifty pounds, all of a sudden into play like a dad. I'm evan. I'm a Hollywood trainer and I specialize in that stuff actually if I'm being honest. I'm one of the main guys who knows how to do that kind of thing. A few days ago, Wesley stern an actor that I was helping to get huge for an action movie called immortal cop was found dead in my private Jin, crushed inside, a high tech weight machine even worse the cops think that I had something to do within now I need to clear my name, somebody out there, killed Wesley and I'm going to do whatever it takes to find them. The final episode of the body genius is available may, thirtieth binge all five parts on their website. The truth podcast dot com. Radio. Ex.

George Dylan Bob Dylan Tulsa Dylan Oklahoma Bob Dylan center Bob Woody Guthrie George Kaiser George Kaiser family foundatio Woody Guthrie center America New York Nikki Silva United States Samuel Shelton Robinson Michael Chacon Mark David sin Kaiser foundation Harvard
15. North Koreas ailing leada, Quarantine Pinot April 26, 2020

Week Didn't Start

36:20 min | 1 year ago

15. North Koreas ailing leada, Quarantine Pinot April 26, 2020

"What's up sand? Let's do this again. We didn't start baby so I always explain the show as you. WanNa tell me what the shows sure. I mean I haven't rehearsed this. But this is the show where we try to perfect a news. Recap and the style of an epic poetic form known as a certain song by certain certain angry. Young Man yes about not having begun a certain incendiary event so we take the news from each week. And we split up into verses. We do Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday their own versus the fifth versus Friday Saturday Sunday. And we answer some questions along the way and we should shoot the shit. We are not arsonists. Yes that is the name of this podcast. We are not arsonists week. Didn't start the podcast that should be our whole title. Yes so what was this week like for you. I mean doing this exercise for now the fifteenth time not to Brag but I started slightly earlier like started writing slightly earlier than I usually do and that was enjoyable. It feels like we're getting better and I know we keep saying this every week but we're getting better sifting through the covert news to find meaningful stories dimensions of the current Irish news but also other stories about politics and world so continues to be not only. I'm just having more and more fun and I feel like this. This week almost was like Matrix week where I was just like oh I can do this in my sleep. Rhyme scheme cadence way of matching story to story. I think you've got some great lines in this week's on because you know we were a little ahead of the game and especially you so it with the news and with the writing so I got to keep a little bit more of what you did in advance of this recording and I think it's awesome. Yeah one thing I want to bring. I have so much to say this week so I want to hear my God. Okay well I WANNA say thing that I'm thinking about right now. Is like the lower case nature of news story words like there's a couple of words that I picked because one of the things that we do on this show. Is We take a new story from the original song and we unpack it because not only are not all of the words like exactly representative of the news item. They stand for but some of them are really full on oblique like they're just words lower lower case right and so. That's what I was thinking about in selecting words for certain certain news stories. I I don't WANNA say took like greater liberties but I felt entitled to pick a lower case word. That sums up the new story knowing future. Person would be googling what this was or there'd be a wikipedia page dedicated to it. Yeah and I I've been I keep thinking about. We've mentioned this in previous episodes but I keep thinking about finding away to take our lyrics and put them somewhere with links. Maybe yeah just so that. There's a record of it because we go through these quickly and I think some of the I mean I think some of mine are good but also what you're doing is so clever and I don't only want to mention the ones that particularly jump out to us? I'd like to for there to be a record so I agree like GEO CITIES DOT com. Yeah place where we can. We can share them. We've got a twitter. That only just sort of post our episodes. You will find a way to do it. That we're we're still working on it and we'll do the backlog and live we'll figure it out. I can't wait to finally start promoting this podcast in September for the last couple of months so this week I have spent a Lotta time listening to a lot of music this week and I've been listening to a lot of music by our Muse. The aforementioned angry young man the stranger this billy Joel's who were talking about. I feel like we can say the name. I like watching you. Edge it out. You know. It's not really like we. We want you to come on the show. Billy come in the show. You're locked in your house. Just come on the show. You're not doing anything you have. No concerts has come on the show. Talk to us about your show. Because I might be one of our subscribers we do not know I have been listening to. He might be one of yeah. You might be one or the other of our subscribers. He he so. I've been thinking about his bias in the song right so I've been listening. Not just this song. Listen to the song more than usual during the week but it led me to listening to the album storm front and going through the other major tracks because okay join me on short journey all off king so I I watched this movie called less last. Stop Greenwich Village This Week. You know movies like young. Christopher Walken Lois Smith so is made in the seventies but it's about the fifties early beatnik culture in New York City in Greenwich Village in this guy who leaves Brooklyn to move to Greenwich Village. And it reminded me of a lot of billy Joel songs and I think I started thinking about it. Because they talk about Walter Wind Chill and they talk about the Rosenbergs and they talk about like a bunch of things that come up in the song and its of this time that I always think about you. Know Young Billy. Joel running around. And it influencing him his point of view and so then it starts to remind me of moving out because he's about this guy's moving out of his home and a little bit. What the song is I mean? The movies like nineteen seventy six and the and it's starts in the fifties but the movie is this. Look back at the fifties in the context of the seventies and. I highly recommend the movie as like looking at old school New York things especially the village where some of the places are still there like. They hang out a cafe radio all the time. It's just like it's great but I started thinking about the Billy Joel bias and the opinions because it's all these beat Nixon. The movie talking about the Rosenbergs and talking about the Brooklyn dodgers and they have strong opinions about all of it and I thought there's not a single strong opinion for all of the things that come through in this song. Huge consequential world shifting events. There's not a single point of view. It's very cagey. Yeah May I offer an addendum to that or kind of story to add dimension? So I'm in the midst of reading a book by Leslie. Jamison called make it scream. Make It burn her new book of essays and there are three parts to it and the middle part that I just finished is there. Is I think longing looking dwelling and Jason is a wonderful writer and critic and so looking is all about the art of looking. I forget who else wrote that book who wrote that Anthropology Anyway so important but she writes these essays about James Agee or Aggie. Ag think and Anti Apple and like different mediums of capture so writing prose writing in this book. Let us now. Praise famous men and anti apples photography. And as you're talking I was. Thinking is the list song as witnessing medium like is because and the reason. I bring this up is because each of her essays takes has kind of a stance on how the artist navigates point of view in the act of documentation right. There's like any apple capturing her relationship to the subjects and the photography there's James Agee tormenting himself for the way he documents the lives of the poor and so I'm just now thinking like if list. Song is art form. Where is the space for the self reflection? Where could it come through? I am so glad you brought this up. This is connected to my. My Old Song highlight. Well let's segway before I do. I have one more point to make about this because I started listening to Billy Joel and I don't think we are the fires just because that's sort of his point of view right that it's happening but it's it's a suspension of responsibility a little bit abdication of responsibility and the place where you would make an opinion. That's where those. What else do I have to say? I can't take it anymore. Those are the closest we get expressions of opinion like JFK blown away. What else do I have to say like? There's a lot to say. Yeah it's almost like giving up the opportunity to make a comment and that's not only billy. Joel's like point of view and the title the song we're looking at his other songs sort of his brand because when he was on the Comma. It was this. Retro Kinda throwback and also modern pop music thing. And he's got these songs he's got. He's on keeping the faith. I feel like it's late in this process for me to ask you what your experience of Billy Joel Is. But it's a great song. Maybe I've ever might recognize it but it's like when I was a kid. I remember hearing on the radio and thinking like Oh. It's about him being a teenager in New York and like living the dream. And using brill cream and having sex and living in the rock and roll times. But there's this line and but it's what it's really about is how he is it's his treatise of like. I'm taking that time y'all remember from the old days and I'm I'm keeping the faith and that's what I'm still doing like I it's about. It's formative years and a line in the song that says you know. The good old days weren't always good in the past and the future has bad as it seems like a theme that goes through all of the songs that Song it's still rock and roll to me everybody's talking about the new sound honey but it's still rock and roll to me. This is his whole thing is hedging between the old and the new without making clear point of view right. But I don't want to overly complicate or get deeper going. I mentioned that I have to. I actually wonder now whether the point of view like what you just mentioned is the past. What did you say the past The good old times weren't always good in the passing as bad as it seems the future. The future in is better than it seems right. I do not detect a optimism in. We didn't start like I. Just don't see and we've been approaching it. I think without optimism like in the sense that are to anchor lines. What else do I have to say? And I can't take it anymore are like resignation and yeah there's a lot of resignation in in both of those and now that I'm thinking of it like what is our point of view and is there an opportunity for us. I mean we've have talked about this on the podcast before especially with the local angle and we and I'm sure in the early weeks I was like I have an urge to editorialize where I think something's bad I do it right but it's a very interesting question. If if we decide if we're at a look at fifty two weeks of weakness. Start and decide. What was our prevailing point of view if Billy? Joel's is always good like exactly what you said. I'm excited that by the end of this. Maybe we have a Pov that other people would site and say this is the same. Carbon Jersey was Dallas. Pov that is awesome yet. I've been thinking about that a lot and I'm there's I have more on this when we get into the highlights. Let's your highlights. You want to start. Let's start with old. Yeah what's your old Highlight from the Sun. Oh Boris Pasternak. Pasternak is mined from this week. So Boris Pasternak was a Russian author and novelist. He wrote Doctor Zhivago and the story of how Doctor Zhivago came to print is fascinating because I have not. Have you read doctor Zhivago by the way seen the movie? But I've not read the book I haven't seen the movie of all time. Okay well I will give it the time when I will. But so. He wrote this novel and the Unpublished Manuscript was reviewed by you know the the the I forget what the Communist Union or something like that and they tried to stop it from going to print because it had a really independent like not necessarily pro attitude about the tober evolution and so they tried everything to stop it from going to print scaife furniture. Nellie an Italian Communist who smuggled the manuscript to Milan and got it published in Milan and when it came out it was a disgrace to the Soviet Union. And that's like part one of the story because after it comes out the CIA finds out that the Soviet Union is upset about the publishing and they say what a great propaganda piece so day independently published a number of copies to hand out at the world's World Expo in nineteen fifty eight in Brussels to further disseminate undermining messaging. So they kind of fan the flames of displeasure. Oh and fraternally for having smuggled. The manuscript was expelled from the Communist Party in Milan. But you know the product provocation of all of this resulted in like I think eighteen translations in the year of its publication. It was just like going. Everyone ended up. He ended up winning the Nobel Prize for literature. The following year pasternack. Okay say this is perfect. This is unplanned by highlight from the original song. Is Dylan Bob Dylan? First things I didn't plan on starting here but was awarded the Nobel Prize for Literature in two thousand and sixteen in an unprecedented move. Do you know about this whole story now. So they gave Bob Dylan for the first time like a musician was given the Nobel Prize for Literature. And he didn't respond for weeks. They like announced it and reached out to him and he didn't answer them and there was this whole controversy around it and then Dylan showed up received the award in this private ceremony and then there was a question of because in order to accept you get prize money in our to accept the prize money. You have to give a lecture on your field and it can be. You could write a piece or you can do a lecture. Do you know public class or something and much later than most laureates do Dylan submitted an audio Nobel lecture to accept his prize for in two thousand sixteen. That's like a thirty minute. Explanation of his work that in the context of global literature and culture set over like a piano and playing the piano. And it's how do I not know I had never? So I'm a big Dylan Fan. Here's why I picked it. And there's another reason I brought up Dylan for all of this in the song but I listened this week to the that lecture for the first time. It's fantastic it's fantastic. It's beautiful. He spends a third of it summarizing moby. Dick and explaining its influence on him. And the thing about Bob Dylan when Billy Joel is writing about Bob Dylan. And then the Bob Dylan. That appears in the song he was already you know. He was indelible force in world in American culture and never talked about his work like never talked for more than a minute about his stuff or about the meaning behind it and it took until Taty sixteen. We have the better part of half an hour of him. Just unpacking all in. It's amazing also mentions buddy holly as the he begins with. Buddy holly is in the song. Okay so we all know Bob Dylan so the Lens for Bob Dylan also. Is this. This song mentions Bob Dylan. Billy Joel has a relationship with Bob Dylan. A lot of songs mentioned Bob Dylan their last songs about Bob Dylan Joan Baez Song about Bob Dylan. David Bowie. Wrote a song. Bob Dylan Bob. Dylan's mentioned it by Gillian artists. He's his influence. Can't be matched and then the song Make you feel my love was written by Bob. First recorded by Billy Joel and then later released by Bob Dylan. But and Billie Joe has been accused of stealing from Dylan over the years. So here's the thing. This goes back to my other point from the beginning. Did you know that well? We have been in lockdown worldwide. Bob Dylan has released two new songs. The first new music that he's released since he was awarded the Nobel Prize for Literature in two thousand and sixteen. The first song he released was the end of March just a couple of weeks ago and it's called a murder most foul in. It's a seventeen minute epic and I will say. I think. I haven't heard everybody on the leading Bob Dylan expert but I really love him. It's among his greatest songs ever written. It's a masterpiece and it is the his first billboard number one single in history in twenty twenty he's never had a billboard number one single before no wow and it was just he just release it on his Youtube Channel. As we're doing now and SAM hold on yes. The song chronicles the last sixty years of American history. But it doesn't do it. In order event to event the way that we we didn't start the fire does it starts with one event. It sort of takes one moment in world and American history. That happened about sixty years ago in unfolds. The moment and looks at his own personal journey and how music and literature and art has all sprung forth. From this moment so doesn't go chronologically sort of goes deep inside. The event is the assassination of JFK. And that's how it begins and the song ends and I think you should listen to it. It's fantastic the song ends with him calling up eighty references so many things in the song. But they're more oblique right so the way. We're talking about how you pick the word reference. A thing and ends up with him calling Wolfman Jack. The the famous speaking of Paola as the famous DJ and requesting songs. So He's like play. This play this play this and it's classical music and literature and he mentions Billy Joel Song when he's kind of chronicling the history of music in this last half of the song it is not. We didn't start the fire. It's only the good die young but he mentions fleetwood MAC and Stevie Nicks and I think I hear what you're saying. I think you're saying in twenty twenty. One hour project is to use murder most foul as the poetic form. I mean it's I wouldn't even WANNA touch it like we take this very seriously and one of the things about like. We didn't start the fire. It's billy Joel's least favorite song that he wrote. It's not cool it. Does this impossible thing. It's like me modifiable. Yeah this song like Dylan does it. And I haven't I didn't I wasn't alive during the assassination. Inc Jack Ruby. Get killed live on television. I didn't see any of that stuff but like our parents age and anybody that lived through it. I can only imagine somebody Dylan's ages about-turn eighty living through that he encapsulated what it was like to live in America for the last sixty years and it is phenomenal. Also I just think it's great that Billy Joel gets a mention amongst all the other folks. I'm definitely GONNA listen to this before. Beshir Okay. This is my recommendation to you to anybody. That's read it watching this listening to it in the amount of time that you could watch one episode of too hot to handle on Netflix ex. You which I will see. Yes which I'm watching. You can listen to you. Bob Dylan's entire Nobel lecture and listen to murder most foul and that'll be forty minutes fifty minutes less than an hour and it will. It's a beautiful haunting devastating to because he ends the lecture by saying I can't. I'm not literature like the songs are meant to be heard. You need the music. It's not literature and because we're doing this whole thing about whether or not a song is a literature. A form of literature just in lyrics. It also makes me think we should play with kind of performing the song little bit more. But that's you know I've been performing the song since one I'd be time to like. Make It official. Start doing it. Yeah I was going to ask. Do you think that the prerequisite is being dylan fan or you think you could walk in know very little about down. Enjoy both of US thing. I think you can. You can know very little about him and love both of these things because I think that's what makes the songs masterpieces and I really this. This new song is a masterpiece. It is I've never had such a visceral reaction to a piece of music on first hearing it but I think it's up there with the hurricane and if you see her say hello and tangled up in blue and like a rolling stone and positively forestry like those classic songs where if you hear it you know and you understand it. It doesn't it doesn't swing. I mean it's slow and lilting but man. He just has never stopped making music. And also Bob Dylan still alive. So we've got. That's what brought me to do. This was I love him and I thought Oh chubby checkers alive. Last week. Chubby Checker Bob Dole still alive besides that the people that still alive some of the children of let him. I'd some of the Beatles the queen but he's just been doing it the whole time. It's it's I can't recommend it highly enough. Well what's what's your new news from this week. How am I God? Okay so in weeks I have been impassioned about a political issue or something. I wanted to point out this week. my impassioned issue is Senator Mark Warner of Virginia. Making what is possibly the most cursive tuna sandwich you've ever seen your fucking life. I'm sorry to swear to melt sandwich every senior life so I did like I did not see the video before stumbling on this link and then watching the video through the link so but I I did scroll pretty quickly to look at it because I didn't want the editorializing too quickly and it is truly deranged like this. Senator is alone in his house and he basically starts by saying you know corona viruses hard and one of the things that maybe we'll help you get quarantines as family recipe and I was obsessed with these sandwiches and you think great. He's going to make like a childhood favourite. He says tune them out. You go fine. He starts with white bread. You're like all right. Whatever maybe not for me but I'm in and then he pulls out the Mayo and that's when things go off the rails first of all the amount of Mayonnaise Usman uses it like when I saw as come out I screamed and then he takes a can of tuna. That is in water. He does not drain the tuna. He just puts the wet tuna with the water. The tuna water dripping onto the sandwich onto the mayonnaise and then he says that his favorite cheese is like this American slice and he says something like a to slice man and inexplicably. There's a graphic that just slides across the street in all caps that says to slice man and it's like who made this then you start to wonder. He did not just film this in his house. He hired some kind of graphics or himself. I don't know anyway. Then he puts it. This is probably the worst part. He puts it in the He. Just microwaves a hot mayonnaise. Water tuna cheese bread. It's I did start yelling almost uninterruptedly while this was happening and then he takes it out and the best part is that as he's eating it takes a big bite and he says you know. I can't get my wife and kids to eat this. All you're thinking is I wonder why. What does family recipe? It makes no. I've I've never seen something that I have so many questions about in the craziest part is I mean. This isn't the craziest part but I you know I'm a left leftist if nothing else and the fact that this man is like a Democratic Senator Kinda hurts house like I'd probably a Republican senator. No it's a good one on God whose f. one of the good ones making a dumb ass tuna sandwich in Virginia. So you know. He's compromised as being from closer to southern state. And I guess if that's your family recipe in Virginia I would say Virginia. They didn't give you quite enough information. Is that excellent from only a good day young? Oh see this is why you need to be a dylan fanfare to participate and billy. Joel are Billy Joel. Oh okay so this has been a genre right. Don't like the curse it or the beloved recipe video because we have the guard. Cosmo Stanley to cheese came up this week. But this is like a whole thing people making bad I made caso videos But like other videos. People Are Sharing Comfort in these trying times and they're just making the times more trying my my new clip. I had a serious news story about the companies that are giving their their stimulus money back from the P loans. But that's just like a thing that's happening in. It'll come up but the story I wanted to highlight is related to the to the Dylan thing. And it's that Travis Scott Travis Scott. The the hip hop artist he He did a concert in fortnight. Like in the game and it broke the records for concurrent players on line in for night so I just thought that was cool thing that he found a way to get people to show up to a concert rather than doing stream like in this platform basically is as virtual reality concert. Venue and twelve million people went to the Travis Scott Concert in fortnight. Pretty well and in that In that Nobel thing. Dillon talks about like you know listening to records or tapes or whatever ways people listen to music now in like. That's one of them fucking. Surreal to think that you could listen to that speech twenty years from now and whatever way that people are listening to it now it will resonate in. How can it get stranger than the video game concert for twelve million during a global pandemic? We're about to find out we are. I do not want to be the last word per se but I can't resist saying that. I saw a headline that was like post Malone does Nirvana concert like Nirvana Tribute concert to raise five million for corona virus relief. And as I read those that word sequences like imagine explaining this headline to your grandparents like none of those words are cobain. Yes Boy Oh boy. So this has been a long intro. I know I keep saying. We'll do a short episode. But I just started rambling. Would you want to dive into the song you had a lot to say? Let's do it okay. I think this is a great great version of the song this week. Yeah pull it all right. You had money to just want to dive in. I think so. Hopefully okay here. We Go Monday. Netanyahu Benny Ganz Russians using ATM's Rocket Fire Matthew Inventor Norman decries wolf ob pages void convictions oil barrels empty friction. North Korea's ailing leader quarantine p. No Week didn't start. The PODCAST CANCELLED PRIDE SHAKE SHACK. Narko aid past her. Flak gene ditch tainted tests. Thirteen hundred private jets Louisville sluggers. Brian's plan honeys up in Pakistan Scapegoat Nation Immigration claims the Internet burr report falling pound thirty three mutations. Found Flood in Kenya euthanasia implant blocked shots prison phones. Bill grown unemployment bad loans. Nyc CAn't walk around the block. Mozambique UC Tucci Negroni. Nurses Sue South Sudan octobber fest. Social Scam Kovic toes. Netflix grows six from voting. Warren's Bro execs order greencard ban warnings from the U and Hell Yeah All right here we go Vegas Mayor Disney spats fudgy troopers Cova Cats Rick Bright Wa blazes press one to plead your case as Morrison Southern squall big bird in a town hall tuna melt on heated bread. Virus-stricken EPI shared Harvard stem public. Land's Rona Free Turkmenistan. Where is Kim? Swedes Kohl Biden gets a climate qualities. Being RE released satellite and Middle East watchdogs. Dogs pandemic drone. Tom nook out orange pesos. Water Act flag band dugongs back in Thailand virtual football picks in Google Verification Tanzania Loan Fight Travis Scott in Fort Night. Ruth's Chris Shakespeare no luck with rimmed as aveer bailout pull if you tax rona is not spread by sex. Air Pollution gone away. What else do I have to say? I just realized meteorite. The last two lines right. Let's do it okay. Is this me this week? Yeah are right. Here is the weekend hasbro masks litter in silence. I been back again. Crime DROPS BELLY FLOPS. Women Dawdle at shops crozier closure bugs decline. Kim is spotted seeming fine Chicago horse-drawn carriage ban no ceasefire in Afghanistan. Trump does China haircut lines BOLSA narrow Sunday crimes virus debts foster pets raids. Snacks grounded jets community is still unsure. May Get some manicure disinfectant as a cure. I can't take it anymore. That's the week that was the week all right. That was one of our best ones. I say that every week really felt that way I would like to call out as we always do a favorites. Yes okay. One of my two favorites. I want to call out and they're actually both from the last verse that I wrote that. They'll my lines so one was belly flops. Because that story is the pot belly returning the the stimulus check after outrage so I opted for an apostrophe for bellyflop but I stand by it and closure is doable. Entendre about the one piece of good news that I like. I perceive as the one piece of good news of this week. Which is that the largest ozone hole actually closed yes so it provides a sense of closure and physical closure and I was very happy about that unrelated to the pandemic reduction in pollution in the article. It it's about the polar vortex but it's very good news. I had a run of good news about the environment and stuff in the water. Act The clean. Water Act was in a six three decision. Supreme Court was upheld and as it relates to their I think the island of Maui was doing some bad stuff And then the the dugongs or those manatee like sea mammals. That are re- re-emerging in Thailand. Because we are the virus and and the air pollution gone away to yes which is pretty wild and And then I loved in yours. I loved North Korea's ailing Lita. Thank you those great. Thanks we do that. We do that often in these. I do we've had a Netanyahu. Benny Gaunt's beginning the song in previous episode. No yeah because they both went to the White House on the same day and I think it was one week that I did it. I started with Netanyahu Benny yes. I remember the first. Oh we're here and we've already talked. We talked about doing this last week. We didn't talk through it this week but having a rule so I I don't think that in in naming rule means we have to stick to it because we break the rules all the time but a thing that I've been thinking about is stress like that one of the rules. I would say perfecting the forum. Is that the stress. That's is that meter. It's not meter because meters. The number of syllables right. Yes Oh we're in. I meant to break the sound before. Last week's when I was getting really into rhythm that would be a good Minnesota just to break down the meter yell. Let's do next week. Do you think the Kosovo with it. Yeah I like that I was. I was less focused on meter and I had some weird stress stuff as we kind of that wasn't that was also not like a dig at what you did this week but I did think about as I wrote I was like Oh that feels. That feels for me true. For All times and places I approached this and and dictates how good I feel about my personal versus whether I got the in the pocket you know you feel so great with it just class. Yeah but he does it with Paola. As I mentioned a couple of weeks ago pay a lot. There's one other that I to mention of mine. Nyc So so I did. That's something I don't think I've done before which is one whole line for one whole thing but yeah for. Dnb falls rock around the clock at NYC can't walk around the block. That was so clever. And I think I might have snuck another item in to make up for it but but that was one where I felt like. Oh that was worth it. Just for the hitting the thing perfectly. Yeah Yeah that was my. That was my favorite thing. I did this week I think. Oh and then the I got AIDS crack Bernie Goetz Line. I like how that turned out in the end. It's funny because now that we collaborate on that last verse I have moments. Where when you like? Because we right that kind of individually but on the same day roughly and we see which stories we'd take it there was like one storey where I thought. Why didn't you take that and put it in the singular single syllable because like to me? This news story summed up so easily by single syllable. But I'm not looking like I'm not looking at the whole and making those decisions independently. I just think I look at something and I go. Oh that'd be perfect for the single syllable lines. What was the sword? You remember it was the one about bugs decline. I was just thinking bugs or insects at the time because of Bernie Goetz like I was like. Oh that would have gone perfectly in there somewhere anyway. I love the bugs the decline story. That's something that anecdotally was. I just thought it was because I moved from the Midwest to a city but the bees on the trampoline no the bees on the trampoline didn't make it. It's totally fine. I just thought that story was so freaking while Thursday is tough just because there's only six lines right. It's short and it was a busy week of news on Thursday or busy day of news. Yeah Rona is spread by sex. Did you see that? Oh Yeah I did see. That can't kiss but that was just such a like couth who said that. They're just never thought it was spread by sex. It was like the madman cigarette ad when they're like we'll say ours is toasted. I if you don't like what people are saying. Change the conversation. Yeah ooh yeah all right so this has been. The Madman podcast. This is a long episode. You can do the cutting years I will. I will thank you for listening. You were watching. Thank you Sam for doing. This and the next week has already begun and we will get started as immediately. Alright go watch Some bobbins stuff. I'm going to can't wait all right. I'll I'll see you later bye Chicago. Horse-drawn carriage band knows fees Chicago horse-drawn carriage ban no sees shit. I pack his was it.

billy Joel Dylan Bob Dylan Bob Dylan Bob dylan Nobel Prize Netflix murder twitter Chicago JFK Virginia North Korea Dylan Fan New York City SAM Boris Pasternak Bob Dole Travis Scott Travis Scott Bob Dylan Joan Baez representative
Diamonds and Rust: Bob Dylan vs. Joan Baez

Rivals: Music's Greatest Feuds

1:04:19 hr | 11 months ago

Diamonds and Rust: Bob Dylan vs. Joan Baez

"Rivals is a production of iheartradio. Hello everyone, and welcome to rivals the showboat music feuds and beefs and long simmering resentments between musicians I'm Steve and I'm Jordan and I'm so excited for this one. I can't even hide it. We've got Bob Dylan Joan Baez. Incredible because you. Don't is an artist with many faces. There's the woody worshiping protests singer. There's the pill popping MoD Dandy. There's the Nashville troubadour there's the born again Christian but we never really get to talk about Bob Dylan the bad boyfriend you know it remains really tragically under disgust and kind of kidding. But this whole story really does kind of humanize them in a way that I think is really rare and. You know especially because Lord knows Joan Mo- Stanford, you know any defying which you know God bless her yeah I'm going to be up front in this episode Bob. Dylan. Is My favorite artists that any kind he's my favorite musician, my favorite writer, my favorite persona or set of personas. He's my favorite everything but I'll admit that whenever I watch Bob Dylan documentary or read about doing book and trust. ME. I've watched many documentaries about this man and read many books. I'm always excited to hear from Joan Baez because she knew him in a way that I feel like most people don't know him not that she understands him exactly I, mean she said upfront that she doesn't understand I don't think really understands Bob. Dylan. But she's witnessed the less mythic version of Bob Dylan shall we say I mean? She was there at a pivotal point in his career. Early on, she played a major role in making him a star end she observed the changes in him as he became this iconic figure in the mid nineteen sixties and it's true that she has some pretty withering things to say about him in like we're GonNa go through that in this episode. But I feel like there's also genuine admiration and even. that. She still has for Dylan and I feel like the reverse is true as well. I think Dylan still has a place in his heart for Joan Baez and you mentioned the crappy boyfriend thing earlier I feel like he's like expressed remorse for that although maybe not as much as he should've right, it took him I'd say about a good half a century which you know I don't know what the statute of limitations is on apologizing being a bad boyfriend but that's pushing it. You you mentioned understanding Dylan, which I think is such an interesting choice of words because you know any other artists where I? Own like more than two thirds of their discography on multiple formats. Read half a dozen books on their lives watched hours of documentary. I would consider myself a pretty major fan but for Bob doing just like entry level Dylan that's just like soon, allergy the syllabus like Dylan allergy one on one and it's just so interesting the intensity fan base is just so total. I. Mean Obviously, that speaks to the and quality of his work, but it almost fearful discussing them because there's just so many interpretations not leave his lyrics but even just like his interviews like, what did he mean when he when he said that? So I don't know he's such a fascinating figure and I feel like. Joan on the other hand just doesn't sugarcoat. It doesn't cut it in in any kind of imagery whatsoever. She's so much more direct. So I almost feel like in the story it Kinda tends to skew more her way because she actually lays it all out there whereas Bob has been much more pick over the years. But even if it is skewing her way she's been again pretty even handed and like the documentaries I've seen you know again like she'll make it clear when he was a jerk but then she also is very sure to say that she thinks he's a genius in that. She's very moved by what he's done I remember one documentary said the. No matter what Bob Dylan does all is forgiven as soon as he starts. which is as an incredible thing I think what draws me to the story is that reminds me in a way of like a star is born. Classic Showbiz Love Story except the genders are reversed and no one. Thankfully. It also reminds me a little of a previous rivals episode that we did our first one which was on. Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks. Although I wonder if in this scenario if Bob Dylan is Stevie Nicks I can see that I'm GonNa vote the Joan is more stevie not only because I find to be more sympathetic character in this and I find stevie the the the mark synthetic characteristically with Mac but also I think about how stevie supported Lindsey back when they were first making music together she was taken waitressing jobs and made jobs and stuff while he stayed at home in wrote I feel like Joan kind of played a similar role to bob kind. Of giving them that platform to be the most Bob that he could be into really kind of he sort of follow in her wake. So to speak and I, mean because she literally gave him an audience I. Guess I feel like Bob might be this TV because he ended up being the bigger star and Lindsey was the stronger one of the beginning artistically, and then stevie surpassed them. But Megan ahead of ourselves, we should get into the background of this story I for we start comparing Bob Dylan to Stevie. Nicks. So without further ado, let's get into this mess. So. Joan came on the scene I her father had taken a faculty position at Mit. So Joan Gutter starts singing in coffee shops and small clubs around Cambridge in the late fifties, and she was still just a teenager was crazy a young she was and she met a guy named Bob Gibson who was a big key figure in the folk music scene. At the time you know the the folk song, all my trials that kind of a an anthem at like early sixties, protest marches and stuff. He was the guy who popularized that Great Beautiful Song now in many black and white doug entries you'll hear that song. Yes. It's like in the way that would be late sixties. All my trials is like the early sixties standard stock like early sixties documentary Goto Song so Bob Gibson big deal invites Joan to sing at the Newport folk festival in nineteen, Fifty Nine, the annual folks summit for Pete Seeger and the whole the whole gang, and that's really what launched her career and they to do as they saying, Virgin Mary had one son and we are crossing the River Jordan or the Jordan River and the response was absolutely overwhelming it basically led. To her getting her first record contract in nineteen sixty when she was nineteen years old released self titled Debut and it became this really unlikely hit. It was just a bunch of traditional folk ballads and it made the top twenty and she very quickly became probably the most recognizable mainstream figure of the folk revival. This side of the Kingston trio she notched a couple of gold albums in the early sixties she's on the cover of Time magazine was on tv all the time and I think it. Was a mix of incredible talent. I mean, you know her piercing soprano incredible intricate guitar work like Bob Dylan later said that she could play rings around him. So there was definitely that and you know I hate to say this I say with all due respect to her musicality her looks in her image played a huge role the early sixties this is the time when JFK a lot of people think that the election that year in nineteen sixty went in his favour because of the televised. Debates with Richard Nixon media's becoming a lot more immediate, and she has a look that plays really well. Yeah I'M GONNA. Be a little more franken. Say That Joan Baez is a beautiful woman. Okay and she sounded great. She looked amazing. She looked like a pop star while also having the credibility of like you said, she was a great guitar player. She could sing beautifully and she was whip smart and had a real political consciousness. So yeah, it was like the complete package which owned by. The Barefoot Madonna in the press which I always thought was a great great name but but you're she's not only a talented and beautiful absolutely brilliant and so showcase in a political activism she goes down to Mississippi to help integrate schools so many examples of her just in public taking these great moral stands and she really kind of becomes like sort of the key social conscious of the folk scene and many of her songs embraced by all protest movements of the time she influenced a whole generation of rising singers, Judy Collins Emmylou Harris Joni Mitchell Bonnie Raitt all ciders and inspiration as does a young Robert Zimmerman who's watching her on TV and Minnesota. In his two thousand four autobiography chronicles. He's talks about seeing her on TV for the first time. He wrote I couldn't stop looking at her didn't want to blink the site of her made me. Sigh. All that and then there was the voice a voice that drove out bad spirits she saying in a voice straight to God nothing she did didn't work. To say about someone yeah. He's very few serve although there's another quote that he had I. Think it's the no direction home documentary where he said he saw her on TV and he said, Oh, I, think she needs a singing. So definitely, very dylan esque type balance there of genuine reverence and he was also having some bravado there in the documentary. Joan. Bob End up meeting in nineteen, sixty one and this is i. think a little bit after Bob had arrived in New York arrives in January up sixty one and her reaction to him I think a similar to like how a lot of people reacted when they saw Bob Dylan that he was this sort of. Dorothy Street Urchin King. And he had a lot of like baby fat on his face wasn't really anything exceptional about him really like when you I looked at him But of course, Bob Dylan as going through an incredible artistic and personal evolution during this time that. Even now it's hard to comprehend how quickly he became Bob Dylan, the guy that was going to be writing these incredible songs that We Still Love Today with Joan. It seems like she wrote in her memoir about again like nothing terribly impressed by him. But on the other hand, she did have an foresight to recognize the quality of one of his earliest songs. Which is Sung Woody, which is I think the only song that he wrote for his first record of otherwise that I record is like all covers and the types of covers other folksingers in New York were playing at that time of course, his second record which comes out and sixty two free will in Bob Dylan is the one that has master's of war and. Is GonNa fall and blown in the wind and. Girl from the North country and he's already becoming Bob Dylan at that point. But Joan Means Bob isn't terribly impressed but wants to play one of songs Bob of course, meets Joan. He's already seen on TV I imagine him having like the Wiley Coyote is you know that bug-eyed of his skull? Because not only is this a celebrity essentially, but she's again like as said, she's this beautiful charismatic woman and it seems like the attraction. Soon became mutual and I wonder to what degree Joan was just sort of drawn in by. The. Exploding talent that Bob Dylan was starting to display at this time. But at any rate she ended up inviting him to. Her family's home in northern California. And she really just taking them. Her wing like you know, he didn't have a lot of money at this time. But she provided the space for him where he could start writing these songs and. It's interesting because. There was that Martin Scorsese documentary that came out and twenty nineteen, the rolling thunder revue, and there's a famous scene in that movie that we're GonNa talk about later in this episode. but in that scene, Bob doing makes reference to being at this house near the Pacific Ocean and writing songs very quickly and I assume that's a reference to this time when they were first kind of getting together and again having this dynamic of him being this unusual guy with a squeaky voice and her being this big star that is going to show him to the world. I mean it seems like what they were at the beginning. Absolutely I mean, she would invite him on to perform her many cases most famously at the new Fort Polk Festival in in sixty three. She was kind of repaying the favor from Bob. Gibson and that is sort of like in similar for her the moment that he really just go stratospheric. I mean you couldn't craft a moment. Bat is more perfect for his ascension you know he where He sort of part of the continuum of Woody Guthrie to Pete Seeger to Bob. Dylan's he closes I think the first night of the festival with everybody's joined onstage by Joan Pete Seeger Peter Paul and Mary and the SNC sees freedom singers and they all join hands and sing blown in the wind and we shall overcome it's a beautiful moment and that really is kind of when he arrives And Joan is still bringing on her tours and their people booing him and she would think she wrote in her memoirs she had to get all schoolmarm and kind of wag her finger at them and say, look I know this guy sounds a little weird I know you're sort of used to my pitch perfect voice and he sounds like Bob Dylan, but listen to the words this guy is. A genius. Oh. So good I mean and she tells us great story to when she's trying to get him a hotel room and I guess he's turned away because he he's still working full woody guthrie tire with like you know rope for suspenders and stuff like that. He looks like he just came off the back of a box car and they wouldn't give him a a room and she has. pull her. You know do you know who? I am card basically and and she goes over to him later and he'd written when the ship comes in based on this olds change. would she always thought was such a true mark of his talent of just a feeling just so Rejected and responding with this absolutely incredible song. Yeah. Like when you're talking about that Newport moment, it just made me think of. Like that's the moment. If we're going to compare this to a star is born because I'm Gonna I'm GonNa be bringing the stars born analogy into this episode unnecessary like Joan Baez is is essentially the Jackson main figure bringing in Bob Dylan who is the Lady Gaga if you will and they're gonNA think shallow together, and this is the moment that it turns Bob Dylan Slash Lady Gaga into a star. Is that a fair summation what the scenario is. Absolutely, a fair summation I think also the element of Joan being sort of the honey. For Bob Songs a lot of people at that time in the early years of Bob's career aren't listening to them because they're so turned off by his voice but Joan sing songs for him and kind of. What's able to put his songs across to a mass medium early in the when they're not really used to how she's providing the honey but she's also. Pushing Dylan in a more political direction. Of course, he's already writing these. Great. Anthems that people will be singing at marches for the next fifty plus years again, blown in the wind times. They are a change in masters of war with God on our side all these wonderful songs but it seems like one of the first cracks in their relationship is that Joan wants to go even farther in that direction at the moment where Bob wants the pullback, right? Right I. mean she's like literally on the front lines down in Mississippi I mean Bob goes down there too and he sings only a pawn in their game when the ship comes in later that fall to vote voter registration rally but he really is trying to back. He doesn't WanNa be the guy. He doesn't want that responsibility and she later expressed remorse for trying to push them further and further and this sort of engaging in acts of civil disobedience and Joan got arrested untold number of times in. The sixties for being at the on the front lines of when the troops were being shipped off, go to Paris island and different different places where boot camps and things like that. He didn't. WanNa. Do that he really didn't want to be that guy and she was expressed remorse in later years for not recognizing that his acts worthy songs that was his gift to the movement. Not Being I, wonder you know and this is going to be psychoanalyzing Bob and Joan here I wonder if on some level. Bob Dylan started to look at John Byas. It's like a symbol of like what he was starting to resent about the folk world. You know the strident politics, the musical conservatism like the rigidity of that seen it. You obviously we all know that Dylan goes electric story in him writing songs like positively Fourth Street where he is really lashing out at those people and I just wonder if He came to look at Joan Baez who again was this? Beautiful symbol of that music seemed really was like the figurehead and a lot of ways at least like in the pop music. And folk music. I. Just wonder if maybe that fueled how he came to look at her and how he starts to treat her as their relationship starts to crumble a little bit like I think about and if you remember the scene in no direction home, there's a there's a interview clipper. Joan Baez talking about how at one point Bob Dylan said to her hey, let's go headline Carnegie Hall or some other Big Music venue in Joan Baez says, what are you going to do with it? You know the implication being that if we're going to become big stars that ought to be to further some sort of political end. And it's clear that like Bob Dylan like by nineteen, sixty four. Was Not thinking in those terms in his career or in his art like he's looking at the beats he's looking at the French modernist writers and he doesn't want to be hemmed in. He doesn't want to be a politician. He wants to be an artist and it seems like that really becomes something that is beginning to drive them apart. Yeah. Absolutely. You can see. That, on his next release another side of Bob Dylan, in August, nineteen sixty four and it's really a political and the reaction from folk purists were it was sort of like a mini dylan goes electric moment they thought he was abandoning the cause and wasn't living up to his responsibilities. That was I. think the underlying things he has responsibilities and Bob didn't want them. And you know I always get seen in the life of Brian with the you know the the Judean People's front have you ever seen the monty python movie when it's just always a little cliques all hate each other and and just the infighting and everything I always got the impression that he sort of viewed the Po- The protest movement by like late sixty. Four like that as sort of the second century group that really that was forced into something he didn't want to be I think the other thing that's starting to happen to around this time, and again, this is bringing back the stars born analogy here where Bob Dylan is lady Gaga I just WanNa put that thought into the minds of listeners out of Bob Dylan. And serves born where he's becoming a bigger star. And not only a bigger star but like a hip or star like he's moving into a realm of music where he is the point person for the culture, like the Beatles are looking to Bob. Dylan, the rolling stones are looking to Bob Dole, whatever this guy's doing we wanna, follow him, and Joan Baez as great as she is at being that Barefoot Madonna figure, you know that that archetypical sixties folk singer, it really starts to become really. Passe idea like that kind of folk music is not going to be very cool as we move into the mid sixties and I feel like that tension that career attention. was also something that was really starting to hurt the relationship. Yes there was the great story where they were having Dinner Bob, and Joan up in in Woodstock and of women across the the restaurant just sort of make an is Adam all night and Bob me and miles just pounding Vino, and by the end of the night, this woman comes over and basically just throws herself Adam and Jonas furious for two reasons I mean one you know another woman is now on her man's lap and. Also. She she wrote I think in her memoir I was used to getting that adoration. You know that was had been reserved for me and not this drunken sought sitting next to me So that had to hurt but you know I mean I think I mean it sounds obvious a state now but his writing he was a writer than in Joan I don't think really was and there was a great American masters documentary PBS did probably. About. Ten years ago and Steve. Earle's interviewed and he said you know folk music became more important when Dylan songs were written they set the stage that made rock and roll literature and therefore made rockin roller art form. You know if you're going to progress the art form of folk. Music Joan at that point was really doing eighty year old songs didn't your old songs and wasn't moving it forward? Imbaba, wasn't cheap. She definitely knew that I was she. Her admiration for a songwriting has been so total through the years. But yeah, it had to be painful for her as a fellow artist and also he wasn't being very nice about it in in the spring and nineteen, sixty five they did a co headlining tour and it was very right down the middle. There's that beautiful poster that looks like some kind of turn of the century, French impressionist paintings of the two of them I think Jones name. Is I. But BOB's head is a little higher. They went really really made sure to have it be fifty fifty but he that was really I think when the relationship started to disintegrate he was very hard to do songs with because as you know when people who go see endless tore now no, he doesn't do a song the same way night after night, and so she would try to do it with them and he would just put. It in a different time signature just a mess up specifically to mess her up. But that's just what he felt like doing that night and if you've got to play a song with somebody sent a waltz and then the next night do it in two four, that's difficult and she would later. So you know he's very unique. It's admirable to want to change it up every night, but it's a pain in the ass when you're working with him. Expecting something from them and again, it gets back to that notion of expecting something from Bob and Bob hates when there are expectations made of him. So hard to actually perform with and then also they had a huge blow up fight. I guess his favorite jacket got stolen and he amoah least all this rage probably pill related rage at the security guard and Jomo. What do you do? Don't talk you can't talk to people like that. That's awful. and. Then of course, he completely rounded on her they go out on stage and have an amazing concert. You know they walk off stage together applauses dying down she turns him and says, wow, you should get pissed off more often before show that was great and she completely rounded on again and I, think that's probably around when they begin to emotionally justice themselves which sets the stage for yeah. Well, because you're talking about the spring sixty, five tour. But I think when people think about sixty five and Bob Dylan and Joan Baez they're thinking about the tour that came after that, which was in England and the tour that is documented in the legendary documentary don't look back and when we think about Bob Dylan Joan Baez in that movie, We essentially think about Bob Dylan being it looks like either stoned on weed or like just like wire to the Gills on pills why can't it be both you smoke the weed to come down from the pills and then you take the pills that get up from the wheat seems like that was definitely the the system that Bob Dylan was on at that time and Look like I. said I am a Bob Dylan. Fan Boy I'm not gonNA make excuses for like how he treats Joan Baez and don't look back because he is like pretty cruel to her and it looks like she's like having a miserable time the entire tour and you are just like, why don't you just leave the tour which is something that she has said in subsequent years that she should have just left but she was there I think out of a combination of like feeling lovesick for Bob and also having this wounded ego of that she was in the process of being usurped by. Bob Dylan. The person that had once been her opening act essentially. I think Bob Dylan at this time, and again, this isn't an excuse but I think it is worth noting that he was about twenty, three, twenty, four years old he was in the process of becoming the Bob. Dylan which entailed a level of adulation that I guess you could compare to the Beatles. I think that's the only person that you could compare it to even the Beatles were. Much more commercially successful than Bob Dylan. They didn't have the level of importance sprint store and also they didn't at least at that time they weren't looked at with the same kind of reverence that Bob Dylan was I because Bob Dylan wasn't just a pop star. He was like the voice of a generation like that archetype in rock music was affixed Bob Dylan I don't know if it. Was I but to me, he's like the most obvious example of that archetype he was at the march on Washington. You know I mean you you you. He's there alongside Martin Luther King. When you view him in a certain way. So in the early six, he's he's at the march. He's also reading like the greatest songs ever you know and he's moving the art form forward in A. Way going back to what Steve Earle said in that documentary that people looked at him as like transforming something that has existed in one form, and now he's elevating it does something else. That is the kind of reference that Bob Dylan is having foisted upon him in nineteen sixty five again, not excusing him for being a bad boyfriend but I feel like those types of circumstances would probably affect. Anyone's mood or and he wants relationships with other people. It must have been incredibly difficult and it's all there on film seeing how he's basically being twisted into this very sort of like mean-spirited gamesmanship driven. He sort of like the Prince of the Kingdom you know he knows that anyone will do anything that he wants and you can see going to his head but you also see him being a brilliant artist at the same time and Joan is basically caught up in this like like it's a meat grinder. And you feel terrible for her as this is going on. Because not only is you know she showing up at these concerts and expecting to be invited to go onstage because she wasn't actually performing on this tour right? I mean, chooses their to hang out with Bob and I think her feeling was that will chill like he'll invite me up there to sing but he never really did. So she just sort of hanging out there for no reason ultimately right I. Mean I think she later some she had her own sold out show at the Royal Albert she was over there but it meant nothing to her. She was just so demoralized by you know her her her lover first of all, and also this person that she respects so much artistically just wasn't paying her any mind at all and there's that great scene and don't look back where she's tinkering. With love is just a four letter word that that Bob is just written in I. Don't think he'd even finished yet and she's planning to to him and doing a beautiful version of it, which is such a you know the nicest thing artist can do for another as the play their song, and he's just like looking daggers batteries disgusted by it and he just rolls his eyes I don't think. That's necessarily true. See again I am I think more empathetic to Dylan maybe than you are in the situation because when I look at that scene I, see a guy who is at his typewriter writing and I don't know what he was writing US probably writing like an amazing song because it's Bob Dylan in nineteen sixty five and he's in the process of like basically channelling an incredible amount of music. At this time. Against Bob Dole in nineteen sixty five like the there's really no one else could compare him to the songwriting output that he was going through at this period in his career he's trying to type and there's this woman there that. He doesn't want to be there but he can't tell her that. He doesn't want to her to be there and. I don't know I'm not excusing the behavior, but I understand his perspective of like I trying to move forward and maybe this person belongs in my past did not in my present you know to me that's the tension of that scene and. I don't necessarily feel like he's looking daggers at her i. feel he's more like. Conflicted where he wants her to go but he can't tell her to go. You know there's a part of him that can allow them to do that. There's something he says later in I think it's a no direction home in it reminds me of a career that he would have written for like blood on the tracks or something. He says like it's hard to be wise and in love at the same time and actually that's a pretty and description of that even if you watch it as an outsider and you feel like poor Joan Baez, because that's my feeling when I watch it. But I also feel like maybe he was pursuing something greater and bigger, and he didn't have time for that you. I don't know. Am I being kind of Bob Dylan? No I I think in that scene I completely see what you're saying i. feel as though because we haven't mentioned Sarah His future wife Sarah who he also brought on the tour, which is you know if if you're going to bring two girlfriends on one tour, that's a bold move. I feel like and and Joan they did a really good job of trying to keep Joan Away from Sarah Until Joan Bob President I think he bought him a blue shirt and went to his hotel room to try to give it to them and Sarah answered the door and sort of quizzically was. Took the gift for Joan. Joan didn't know she existed and I think that was the moment that she kind of knew that that things were over. There was another woman in his life in a major way our hand we'll be right back with more rivals. Hi. There I'm Jordan. 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Information just text the word voter, two, four, zero, six, four, nine, or visit headcount dot org for more Info and head Kalki right through registration. If you're already registered, they would love it if you would take their me plus three pledge. So make a plan to vote and then get three friends to join you and if those friends are registered heads headcount dot org with them and make sure that they do get registered it takes two minutes to do this but it has a huge impact don't wait registered today and vote on November third. So, What's interesting to me is to look at this period a Bob Dylan Song writing because again, he was very prolific at this time and you know I think even casual Bob Dylan fans could name like a dozen classic songs hike from the mid sixties at Bob Dylan wrote but I know like you and our trying to figure out what songs did Bob Doing Right about Joan Baya's because. A lot of conversation you know speculating on what songs are about her or are about Sarah, and of course, Bob Dylan is never all that helpful in these situations he's never dislike yeah. This about Joan and you know. That's my Bob Dylan. These about. It's pretty it's pretty stock. It's pretty rich little, but you know what can I say? But. Like what are the songs that people have like? Focused in on the most as maybe being about Joan, Baez well, the one I always really thought was at least a line and just like a woman when we meet again introduced US friends please don't let on that. You knew me when I was hungry and it was your world because I just thought that really obviously references you know when when he came on the scene and Joan, was the queen of folk the cover of Time magazine and everything and he was this hungry scruffy little street Urchin Kinda Guy I was at the was. yeah I mean there are the the references to amphetamines and paroles and stuff so that and that's very easy. So you're right but that's it's interesting and of that line. But that does make sense that could be Joan bias not and and this is way in the weeds but in she belongs to me. This picture of a powerful independent creative artists that he apparently gave Joan a Egyptian ring wants and there's the line she wears an Egyptian ring sparkles before she sleeps and which again, that's a little. That's some. That's some fan fiction right there. Maybe but I, that was always very fascinating to me and I always liked the line she never stumbles. She's got no place to fall and I always thought how that might Sorta to to Joan being the sort of icon of the politically minded folk movement and she could never break from that role without sort of losing face and losing her audience which. Again that's just me projecting a little too much there. But I was that that was an interesting line that could also be like a dig to right Oh. Totally you know that she's too pious to like ever. You know fall from her perch of wretchedness I think the song visions of Johanna. Being Joan Baez Song, I feel like Joan Baez herself. Talked about how she feels like that's about her and you know it's interesting in light of what we were just saying about that tour of England in sixty five where you had this weird love triangle going on between Bob Sarah Joan because if you want to say the additions of Johanna is about Joan Baez there is a love triangle in that song and. Essentially the ideas that protagonists of that song is with one woman, but he keeps thinking about another woman. and. You know you can look at that literally if you WanNa say about Joan Baez is that about Bob Dylan saying that he still pines for Joan Baez or does Joan WanNa believe that's true. I mean I tend to take a broader interpretation that it's really a song about feeling perpetually dissatisfied that like whenever you get what you want that it doesn't sorta quench the feeling of yearning that you always have inside of yourself, which is an extremely Bob Dylan sentiment i. mean he obviously that is sort of the modus operandi of his career. He's always kept moving. He always changes his songs. There's. Never a point where he feels like he's nailed it down perfectly and It's what makes him such a brilliant artist I think it may also make him an impossible person to have in your life. You know someone who's perpetually dissatisfied. It's interesting to looking at would joan bias wrote in response to Bob Dylan because I mean Baya's she's not really a prolific songwriter I. Think she's known more as an interpreter of other people's songs. That's certainly how she got her start in her career, but she has written some songs about Bob Dylan like do you know the song to Bobby from nineteen seventy two? I just love how really just encapsulates the differences there. You've got these incredible the visions of Johanna, and then you've got to bobby there's no. Way To misinterpret that whatsoever and I love that. So I didn't say Bob Dylan that's true. It could just be any other bobby. But Yeah. Exactly. Bob Bob Barker could be could be a song about the price is right But yeah, it does seem pretty clear that it's about Bob Dylan, and this is like kind of her angriest song about Bob. Dylan. Because she's basically going at him for his lack of political activism like the idea of that song she has this line in there. She says, you left us marching on the road and said how happy was the load? The years were young the struggle barely had its start. So the implication. Being that like you baled dude right where we needed you, we had the civil rights movement going on in the early sixties, and then you just like took off like by sixty four and Bob I wrote the outline and I never really thought about this but you feel like the song wedding song from planet waves is like an answer record to to the Boulez. Song. I mean I always. Thought I. Mean His songs can be about twenty different things all at once but I, always thought the line. My duty to remake the world at large nor is it my intention the sound the battle charge I always thought that was sort of his response to Bobby. It was like you know it was not that was not when I set out to do. That's fine if that's what you wanted to do. Great. But that wasn't that wasn't who I was not why I got into doing what I do. So then Joan Baez puts her record diamonds and Rust Nineteen, seventy five, which is. The Joan Baez record I know like the best because I'm just gonNA say that like. I Love Joan Baez as like a figure I, love her as an interview subject. I'm not a huge fan of her music. I don't know how you feel about her music. I feel similarly I definitely appreciate her more as a political figure and as absolutely the most entertaining part of any Bob Dylan documentary and the most insightful. But this album I like the most because it comes from her I feel like her interpretations of some of the older folk songs are indeed gorgeous. But you know I do more fascinated by when it comes from inside of her and so this whole albums and she's later said that this album was really her peak is a. Writer and diamonds and Rust in particularly the song was one of the she ever wrote and you know it's really sparked from Bob yet that song and his other song called winds of the old days, which seems like you a pretty direct song to Bob Dylan and both the songs are much more in Cali than to bobby is it's reflecting on their relationship looking back on it with some affection as well. Some regret and I feel like diamonds and rust in particular is this song where I think she's trying to get the upper hand in a way with her in a relationship with Bob, Dylan? Because essentially at the end of that Song, she implies that The man in the song and again. Say that a protagonist and an antagonistic this on, and we won't necessarily say that Bob Doing and Joan. Baez. But they like probably are there based on some version of who they are the implication that song is that like the man wants to get back together and Joan is the one deciding that it's not gonNA happen. So it turns into this sort of victory for Joan at the end of diamonds and rust. Interpretation of that Song she tells the story where she was the middle of writing a song and she's got a phone call nine, hundred, seventy four and I guess Bob called her out of the blue from a phone booth in the Midwest, which is amazing and read her all the lyrics to a song that he'd just written. Lily Rosemary the Jack of hearts. Which I interpret as a Dylan esque booty call I suppose. Right. Yeah. He's flex and he's like I wrote this I wrote this bomb song and you're GonNa love it. You'RE GONNA. WanNa. Hook up man I'm Bob Dylan I'm thrown straight heat at this time his marriage to Sarah's on the rocks blunt tracks was not far on the distant they're not far in the future. So Joan turns back to the song that she was writing before he call the now it's become about Bob and it's this I always took it as this really bittersweet tribute to their love affair written in on her words a couple of light years afterwards, and she's talking about this unwashed phenomenon I. Love How in every she refers to like nineteen sixty one bob is always like unwashed unclean sweet urgent. Filthy filthy man ragged. Filthy little man. Dwarfed by his Guitar Yeah and so the best she throws their about how she says that Bob or should we say the antagonists says that she writes lousy poetry which I enjoy that being in there too. I just thought it's such a gorgeous song. It's one of the best kiss off songs I think of all time you know it's classy. It's witty and it's ruthless. and Bob for whatever it's worth was not shy about saying that you know I think this is about me and Oh man to be I think he said this quote to be included in something joanie had written I mean off to this day. It still impresses me. It's nice if you're going to be the recipient of a song like that you might as well be gracious about it and I and I by that I feel like Bob Dylan, he's A. He's a player in the game man like game respects game good song. He's GonNa respect it even if it's about him in f on some level, you know I. Don't know if that's embarrassed him or if it hurt him or anything but it didn't seem to you know sparking Animus in him towards Joan at all one thing I really like about diamonds and rust like even more than the title track is that Joan, Baez covers simple twist of fate from blood on the tracks on that record and one of the verses she slips until like this. Weird. Bob Dylan impression. It's like I love her doing pressure. It's like the arrangement of that song. It's really weird. Anyway 'cause you think of the original simple twist of fate and it's this downtrodden romantic acoustic song or Dylan's as porn heart out and like Joan Baez version is this like upbeat Berry mid seventies L. A. Rock. Like redo like it sounds like an Eagle Song, she doesn't. And and but then she slips into this like kind of perverse dylan impression in the middle and I'm like kind of wish you did the whole song like that because it would have like registered more as like a dig on have maybe or like yeah you wrote the song about the woman that you left me for a now I'm GonNa play it on my record and kind of make fun of it but doing this voice. Happy Song exactly I'm GonNa, Kinda suck the. So out of it, I'M GONNA. Make it sound like life in the Fast Lane Gal. But again like. It doesn't seem like Bob Dole minded that either because he ended up inviting Joan Baez to be on the rolling thunder tour, which I think is like my favorite Bob Dylan Tour I love this era. In Joan Baez was like a huge part of that tour. My favorite part is entire tour is apparently bob asked her if you're going to play that song the song about the Blue Eyes and diamonds obviously diamonds and rust and she played demos like Oh. Yeah. That old thing I wrote for my ex husband sure and you can just imagine Bob's face kinda falling it'd be like. Ex Ex husband that was for your husband and Joan, which is very sweetly. Who'd you think it was about? I really I liked that a lot. Yeah I mean look against Bob Dylan. He must've appreciate it on some level like someone throwing his own bullshit back in his face like she's not going to admit it you would never admit it. It was the other way around I. Mean like Bob Dylan wrote a song called Sarah about his wife Nike kind of backed off from that like really kind of explaining the meaning behind that's on whenever people would press him about it years later. So I mean he's done the same thing obviously in his own songs you saw on Scorsese documentary right the. Thunder. Review as Netflix's it went up twenty nineteen. I'm a big Fan of that movie. One of the great things about that movies that uses a lot of footage from a movie that Bob Dylan directed called. Renaldo and Clara that came out in nineteen seventy eight and like you can't find it anywhere because I don't know if like Bob Dylan's embarrassed by this movie, I mean it was really panned is like a four hour movie there were like concert clips in that but there's also like like improvise story in it and like it's basically about Dylan Sarah and Joan or like the three main characters in it, I on a bootleg copy of an. Although Clara and have never gotten through it because it's like really slow in impenetrable I. Mean My copy also looks pretty bad like have you seen Rinaldo and Clara at all I tried to watch some of it and I it was on watchable for me. I. Just couldn't I found like a really scratchy maybe it was the same copy yours on online and yeah, it just was too. I, mean, he he directed that right? Yeah. He directed it and it gets pretty pretentious. It's pretty hard to watch but like there's a lot of great footage that was shot during that time and Scorsese was able to take a lot of that footage and turn. It into his own sort of Wacky Meta movie that came out in twenty, thousand nineteen and for me like the most riveting scene in that movie is between Bob Dylan and Joan Baez you remember this scene but like they're talking about their relationship in the past and it's not clear I mean for one thing I I'm sure that the scene is staged because there's no way that the cameras just happened to come upon Dylan and Joan having this intimate conversation I. Think there's like actually to cameras like shooting both of them. So obviously staged, but it seems like it's also based on some truth when you watch it like I don't know if you've. Read on this at all. I mean there's the dialogue in the scene is incredible like he says, you got married without telling me and then she says you got married without telling me and then Dylan says I married the woman I love Jones says I married the man I thought I loved and then there's like a really long pause and I'm like and then he goes full dylan. That's when does like you thought you see the thought that's a mess you up. Yeah he says that will miss you up but like any kind of digs under a little bit. But like when I watched that scene house, like are they gonNa Start Boning here like Is like electric when you watch it and they're giving each other these sorta like googly I come hither looks. Pretty Steamy. Stevie and Lindsey analogy. This is silver springs on the on the dance. This is the. Like with more affectionate. Silver Springs hatred I don't feel hatred here. I feel like we get an on here. Do you want to get it on? Camera Crew Outta here. So we can have sex on this bar right now I mean that's the Vibe I get from that scene. And it feels like that electricity really bounce through like a lot of the performances that they had together on that tour like their do wets are like really sexy and like really playful and fun others that great one in I think it was in Boston in November seventy-five when Joan bobber up there the Mike they're about to do is she'll be released and someone in the crowd screams what a lovely. Couple and Bob just wants wants to die WANNA little floorboards. He doesn't respond to the FAN. He can't look at Joan or the crowd he just wants to disappear Jones saves the day just laughing don't make myths couple couple of what and she puts her hand on domes neck and they start to do this incredible version of I shall be released. It's beautiful but then there's this weird thing that happens where. There's the Song Oh sister that doing rights for the album desire. And I mean, isn't there like a thing like where Joan Baez thought that that was about her like there's a line in there where he says Oh sister when I come to land your arms, you should not treat me like a stranger. Oh, sister might not have brother to you in one deserving of affection this idea that like he may be turned to her at a time of need and cheap like turned him. Away, and she kind of took it like didn't you take it that way she wrote her own song in response to that. Well, she wrote in response to his song owes sister she wrote brother again. Yeah. Oh sister I always I always took to be at least about how she of rebuffed him when called that night in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, four, and she she turned around and wrote and Rust Oh brother Is Very to the point. This is on nine, hundred, seventy, six Gulf wins and it's not oh, brother in the biblical sense like Oh sister was very biblical. This is like in the peanuts gang like, oh, brother this guy again. Great, lines. You've done dirt to lifelong friends with little or no excuses who endowed you with the crown to hand out these abuses your lady knows these things but they don't put her under me. I know about them too and I react like thunder rolling tour I. Don't know you go. There you go. And then the. Ed. Is that line like where she says because when you hurl that Bowie knife, it's going to be when my back is turned doing some little deed for you and baby will I get burned so? Again this idea that like, oh bobby shitty friend essentially, and it seems like there was the state of the of their relationship for a long time that they were had this sort of icy standoffish thing and again, if you WANNA speculate on like was this driven in a way by like a second break-up in the mid seventies it seems like that's never been fully spelled out if they actually hooked up again or if there was just this weird sexual tension that was never acted upon but because she had good memories of the the rolling thunder tour, right she said at least for the first year she said it was great. So yeah yeah, it seems positive but then like. Math like there was a long chilly period between both of them in a one story I love at. It's very creepy story, but it's from nineteen eighty-four because there was this tour that Bob Dylan was doing in Europe with Santana and Joan Baez joined this tour I think her belief at the time was that this was going to be essentially like a three bill co headlining tour where in reality she was being brought on as an opening act essentially so. John. Buyers. Realized that she was very unhappy and she writes about this in her memoir and a voice to sing. and. She tells the story about how I hate the story so much. It was kind of a repeat of what happened like twenty years earlier when she was hoping that like Bob would bring her up to sing together and like I think he did a couple of times. But for the most part, not really you know he was doing his own thing and they're playing these stadiums and. It's not really a great situation for Joan Baez. So like she finally decides that she's going to quit and she goes backstage to say goodbye to Bob and Bob I guess he's just like looking to shoveled and sweaty and not in good shape and I'm you know I think it's pretty well documented the at this time Bob, Dylan was I think drinking a lot I think he's probably taking a lot of drugs at this time he was nine. In good shape this is like about four years before he went on the never ending tour and like really started to kind of clean himself up and pull himself together and and become the artists that he's been like in the last thirty years I mean this was like a point for Bob. Dylan and Joan is like I'm I'm taking off Bob and she's wearing a skirt Bob Dylan like puts his hand up her skirt like in rub it. Brings his hand up her leg. By any says like, Hey, you you have great legs. So. Good. She's like because I rehearse Bob. I stand up a lot when I rehearse like she takes his hand and puts on his chest and I. Think this is A. sweaty bloated forehead. Leaves. Oh, man. It's like for like the next like say, maybe even like twenty five years after that it's like it's pretty cold between them. She tells the story in her memoir in nineteen, Eighty, seven and I. Guess someone asked her about like Dibaba. Respond to this story in your. Book. The book paints a sort of warts and all portrait of Bob I mean it's not very flattering but mean, obviously she she pays tribute to his incredible artistry but he's not the most flattering thing in the world and she told the interviewer. Yeah. No, I never heard from about that. But you know what you see that's to be expected to full covers, albums of his songs and he never responded those either so. Go figure My favorite part of the book is when she says, he wrote massive war as a cash grab according to her Bob, said, you know what? I drop dead people going to interpret the Shit Outta my songs, they're going to interpret every comma. They don't know what the songs and Shit I don't know what they mean. So very loose the veil on the whole Dylan mythology I think in her memoir. I don't doubt that he said that I feel like he has said as much in interviews over the years that. He. is very averse to like analyzing his own work and he'll let other people do that but I think he's very reluctant to. Say. What songs mean or to like put any kind of importance on them although at the same time, he's not a humble person either like he will talk about how great songwriter he is and how there's no one better than him. So it is this combination of like not wanting to help out anyone who wants to understand is songs but also feeling like. I'm the Shit I'm the shit, but you don't understand it and I don't understand it and it doesn't matter I. Do think that like one of the things that has come out of all the documentaries that have been made about, Bob. Dylan has been like Bob and Joan being able to communicate to each other like through those movies like I think about in in no direction home. where I feel like there's a lot of of affection that they express for each other. You know they're never on screen at the same time. But There's that things before about how Bob Dylan's trying to explain why why he acted the way he did on that sixty five tour and he doesn't say like I'm sorry in that movie but I think it's heavily suggested that he feels bad for what happened and he has that line that I mentioned before about how he says, you know it's hard to be wise and in love at the same time. And then Joan for her you know on on her side I feel like she speaks more eloquently than anyone about like why Bob Dylan is a great artist and she has great line about how you know there's people in the world who don't care about Bob Dylan at all in they hear songs and they don't care and she says, but if you are interested, you know no one reaches down deeper than Bob Dylan? And I always think about that because I think that's so true and I think it's spoken by someone who did have this personal relationship with Bob Dylan. But also at the end of the day is like one of his biggest fans you know like she can articulate that point of view because she's like the rest of us who of his work and as close as she got to him and got to know him. You know he's as much of a mystery to her. In many ways as he is to the rest of us. Yeah. I always liked the thought that until she stopped touring in two thousand eighteen, she sang something like half a dozen Dylan songs in concert and she would introduce diamonds and rust by describing Baba's by far the most talented and crazy person I've ever worked with which is beautiful. You know there was an Envi-. She gave recently where she said she was painting one day and put Bob's at one of Bob's albums on and just started crying and just said you know could Lord I know this guy I got to sing with this guy and she said that moment any of the bullshit between the two just sort of evaporated and you know as you said earlier, there's the really the end of the day. Everything's forgiven when I see Bobby Singh I think that's probably the most perfect absorption that she could give for him. See again like it's so nice to me that with all their ups and downs that in this version of the stars born story. known at a garage like hanging themselves. You know, spoiler. Seems like they came to some motor moment of reconciliation, which is really great. We're going to take a quick break the word from our sponsor for we get to more rivals. So. This is the part of the episode where we talk about the pro sides for each. Part of the rivalry and with Joan. Baez I think you and I have both said this before now but like on a personal level. It seems like she was a very decent person to bob she genuinely loved him generally admired his his talent and at the moment in her career where she was a huge star, she worked really hard to give the sky platform and I mean I think maybe Bob doing what the become a star anyway even without her but I don't think there's any question that she expedited his his rise to stardom and like he wouldn't have the. Career that he didn't sixties without her oh yeah. I mean it's really fascinating to think what would have happened if he would have been just like you know another day Van Rock or something like that if it hadn't been for her who was such a major star to to to give them this massive audience I do feel very sad and I, said why it happens that any profile of Joan will inevitably include a reference to Dylan but I don't think the inverse is ever true even though she had a much bigger impact on his career than he did on hers and. Chocolate up to just he's Gargantuan role in popular culture sexism her own frankness on lyrics and interviews whenever she was singing about him. She Kinda, let you know it. Don't. But that always that always kinda stuck in my craw a little bit. Yeah. I mean I think it's Bob Dylan. I think that there are so many people that are in his orbit that just get sucked in. You know even like you know we talked about the band in a previous episode I don't think the ban would have the statute that they have. If they hadn't been associated with Bob Dylan, you know they put great records on their own but like their legend before music from big pink was created in large part because they were the backing band for Bob Dylan on that historic nineteen, sixty, six tour in. That they were the band that like made the basement tapes with him, like which I guess at that time would have been known as great white wonder, the bootleg recordings but like just being in his orbit especially at that time in the sixties, it just is going to overwhelm anyone who's next to it. I will say that I think that Joan Baez ultimately does benefit from her association with Bob, Dylan you know as much as we talk about how she helped him at a pivotal point in his career. I think it's also fair to say that like a lot of the interest that people have today and Joan Baez is due to the fact that she did have this association with Bob Dylan at a very momentous time in music history and cultural history I. Think Without that. You know we might think of Joan, Baez more like Judy Collins or like a buffy Sainte Marie like other female folksingers of the sixties who are really great. But they don't have the same I think name recognition that Joan bias has not just because she was associated with Dylan but. Also, because she was so strong, she's such a strong foil and gave it back to him like especially after the fact, in your songs in documentaries and again like she's like my person do see talk about Bob Dylan I mean she saw articulate about it. She's also like really candid like she she doesn't just blindly revere him like she will take him down a peg in a very sort of smart and I think justified way. So yeah, I think that association has definitely helped her over the years when we do the pro Bob. Dylan side I mean. Look? I think we both have made clear that like he was a jerk. In nineteen, sixty five and like you can watch on look back and it's pretty clear that he's acting like a jerk in that movie. But then you measure that against just the weight of everything he's created. If he had retired after blonde on blonde a, you know that the mythical motorcycle accident that he had that forcing the go into hiding because essentially his life gotten too crazy at that point he he had to find a way to save himself if he had just retired then he would he would be a legend like if it was just about like those for seven or so albums and yet he has gone on to create music for fifty years after that can you imagine I mean having bat musical legacy plus the Syd? Barrett Level Mystique Oh my God right and I kind of go back to that like with him and Joan Baez where again. Feel, like carrying water for Bob. Dylan being a bad boyfriend here. I don't mean to do that again I feel like he was in the wrong and I I feel bad for Joan Baez at that time. But I will say that it's unimaginable to me what it was like to be Bob Dylan in nineteen, sixty five. You know what would that have been like? What does that do to your health right I mean and it's kind of amazing that like lived. At, all yeah. You know because I think that the kind of attention that he had, it just goes beyond normal pop stardom. It was like he was a pop star also like a Messiah figure at the same time like people thought that he was actually GonNa Save the world you know that he had write political songs because like we needed them I. People felt like they needed Bob Dylan to do certain things you know to make the world a better place I guess that's what people look at the Taylor Swift. Now, like we expect Taylor Swift to save the world by endorsing the right candidate, I guess she's like maybe she's the closest thing to that kind of level of Bob Dylan Mystique. But I don't know I mean you really can't compare anyone to Bob Dylan I think at that time and you see oh, infuriating it must be for Joan. Who Literally is out there getting arrested and on the front lines down in. Mississippi trying to make a difference and you can see you know you can understand the frustration for like you know why is everyone looking him? I'm going to actually knows what's happening in his out there she would say an interview I don't. Think Bob everyone to a march by himself in his life. You know that wasn't that wasn't who he was. So you can totally understand not only why should be pissed off at him for all the personal stuff but just you know what is this guy? No I'm is actually out there talking about this stuff on the front line. So yeah, there's that great line net. She has no direction home where she's like whenever I go to a in or sit in or around. Jalen. People always ask me is bob coming and she's like, no, you gotta come. He's never gonNA come. Why would he come to this random event? Like he's never you know? Yeah, he was there with Martin Luther King in nineteen sixty three because I dragged him and he's like I did it I was with mlk nothing's going to top that. So you know I'm going to go instead totally reinvent rock music and change the course of human history that that's women. Do you guys can go to your protests? I'm going to change an art form for the better. So we look at these two together. I feel like again for me what I love about it is I still look it as a great love story. You know even though they didn't end up together and even though they weren't really together that long I go back to the stars born analogy like there's something really attractive to I. Think all of us about a story where you have a really famous person in the less famous person and they fall in love. But then there's this weird career dynamic that ends up getting in the way you know in that movie has been remade four times. So people obviously are attracted to it, and there's that sort of classic quality to the Bob Dylan and Joan Baez story too I. Hope they do one final because I don't think they've saying together since that eighty-four tour I. Hope they more time something something huge. Maybe the next inauguration who knows well just a four letter word. Say Jordan. And Bob I. Feel like what have other four letter words in response to that. But who knows who knows never say never and I it would be amazing to see. But maybe it's also more fun to think about it. Then it would be to actually see it. You never know. If that happens will record emergency rivals follow-up practice owed and break it down for all of you. Until then thank you all all of you for listening to this episode of arrivals, and we will be back with more beefs and feuds and. Long simmering resentments next week. Rivals production of iheartradio. The executive producers are Sean Taito and Brown, the supervising producer Taylor chicane and trysted McNeil the producers. Joel hats that I'm Jordan run talk I'm Steven. Hyden. If you like what you heard, please subscribe leave us a review for more podcasts from iheartradio visit the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Bob Dylan Bob Sarah Joan Joan Baez Bob Dylan Sarah Bob Dylan Joan Baez Joan Bob Dole Bob Bob Barker Bob Gibson Bob Songs Stevie Nicks Bob End Joan Bob Bob I Martin Scorsese Joan Gutter Joan Mo- Stanford Time magazine Bob Doing
Sof Sonoro Especial | Bob Dylan y yo

Podcast RadioViajera

50:57 min | Last month

Sof Sonoro Especial | Bob Dylan y yo

"Say podcasts These these scores delays thirty other mercy. Classes goodson turn eighteen so fast so not necessarily the percent. Alfonso cuando canea in sonya. If we had have come our house can how go goku boil nominee and now they're also enact a by dryer. When i'm i came here companions could be going to home depot climate. You're in the bob dylan. Movie gotta do lose complete or ten times. Luckily i must columbus petiot bienvenido al professional. Lose your close. You don't have to Be gymnast Don't hey locking gonna saying league on up a big fat genre donald landed. You'll only get your shoes game. Houston you stay motive. No doubt abbas. Gus up she can do nominate masada recordable in next iphone trend. The goose intimate in lhasa commission my lead in gasoline neon biblical limousine patrol other. Circuito goes up by see mine and control companion in moscow psychologist. Our we've been done. She gave to do the martinez in academia people kiva. I can't do that. Serbia guy everything and she needs an audience. She don't ban she's got everything she needs. She's an artist ship. Don't lou but you can take the dog out of the night time man. Hey the d. time glad you start standing proud steve. Anything see you will start standing out the st the anything in lewanda digging hooky ho down upon. You need wondering what he does. But if you've got sean least interfaces the contra cochin dome compete the aberdeen early now. Nowadays hamish coach their their the mc more or less about data whiskey came rather than poor innocent and files a former much mass and look at political parliament. Just in time eleven. Chico rubio compete. They want a hint humiliate elaborate level. Data he should travel paletta flesh. What people will do them. And you'll you'll play lose. Those commissioners of santa monica where yeah better looking mobile defined. I mean brand so bad off bag eglinton song power. Don't say replied wouldn't do me and you free coupon five mobile out of this morning in week. Mobiles that they fear for the lack of a companion. Bob dylan to masher. He data rather market niche. In that moment conforto now. We still have legal. Domino will not be remote laboratory ministers. Hocus you my ideas on my phone to the these more. We're gonna say the loonies. Jesper talk the kelly. Whatever and now new jersey. We spoke with this. Push impo in america rush the but can be an mba. I want a squirrel. happy national. Make them by that. He and kenya attitude era name. You'll demanding actually lunar the community hidden enemies. Loonies nationally will stop. Sarah shimon canary asking as she luna's yes or the nabet sustain continuous bob dylan luxury. Ask rhythm bailey's career illegal soberly only normative literally they sort of inaba damato lebron liberty them. I see this quarry misconduct property data leland macabre pasta de the rules again to and if things things he will man is mandate is us. V was an lama. Just sit there girl still just say who gonna take away his last substance they take and they learn and it said all the pathway found then anne him with is bad. It acted you basin. Just say you want to take away. His he's been stuck vein and then all take away license to kill primer poor so they can say community note of a mean way bobby national luminous by mr the villain fiat one another makeup date family our weather. You're really yeah superstar lemonier now. Foreman not look ten. No interest is the mo over the sheikh hussein into sunday's kayla anterior missing the in america. But then the mean by cagiano brass finish catheters on sports radio meanwhile stint as koran. Vanessa's in kentucky. Yep literally swooped iranian blues electoral built. Don't domus impo relevant would alec. i'm sorry in chicago. Path will let me tender up. Tambi be happy to look ten years the random along this we are. I mean chica. Start be unless you must not route almost skyline much ideology. I'll be honest. We wrote and finish minus two and portola nicky boje in the starbucks them jimi hendrix or like idea. The laboratory was the story muttering laureated. Many manana got no alcohol on august. I was beaten john in a basement mixing up the medicine. I'm on the pavement. Thinking about the government. The man in a trench coat badge feed says he's fan. Paul paid off his. Did god no win budget doing again you down now. Living on new brand new man in coon skin have been big man on dollar bills. The you own a gun. Maga- cows plead for this black stood topping that the heat good planting the bid book imposed anyway. Magazines must bus nerdy man all from being no matter what you did. A walked on tiptoes. Don't time no vote with pair of bio heave athene node of maine codes. You don't need a where the man in the window get sick. Well hang around guay bell hot thing dante about hockey box bag write braille in jail. Jump bail tony army kids on hip but loses cheetah. Fix this hang around the theaters girl by the world booze looking for new fool. Don't follow leaders. The parking meters. Oh people on japan's rule man during the day get basket. Breath says please him buy gifts. Don't field only twenty years. Is schooling in and it put you on the dish shift. Look out here the head down a manhole yourself. don't wear sandals compost on a bed at uganda pump. Don't work vandals took the hands gavin contribution. Is that kind on collection plate. And i lost by. Bob dylan will be decade. Carry haunted hotel savoy yes. It'd be the momentum. Marcy chronicles masika contact. Callahan knows about maybe manana. Contrary lou hottest the rescue tackle mingo not black. Okamura quarterback will be lombardi. But taylor's a local by labradors theon selling gilbert for my iphone doc- though belleek will ask me factual with your monte-carlo since he's who ordered county to as part of their their last longer monte-carlo faustina along the grandest momentous chameleon. On sundays we should finish. Amana necessarily bama chaloner's fierce them. No mingo we must notion in whether on three d. comb came in. I don't throw nicola this dilemma. She coning say machen on a pillow. Larry elder larry one negative. You'll quater the neonatal. Three stipulate the interest media when anonymous you who allegheny moon who spears episode of the coastal look. Mary arrest. Doesn't bother me and maybe that medical three d. cocaine can check out this this entire at alaska's unless qb though but a camera follow them them. Guilty Is the no so the saxophone She was the bills horse down. I was gone but it's listen to news. I won't want junkie three to lead his best. Esteemed feel to to redo me. Drinking from an grouping me to do is think leaning talk with gene. News afraid sears. Goods me doesn't lacked be visit child with his chinese spoked. Lose lewis's because you say because you to you for your time is on his side. Because i want able over. Income is on the mother's urine illo by various done them or expedient porty can double d leninist that they might be blown blown by the mashed by candle musical. They do lose complainers broad still headquarters and no means momentous masika dylan komo's war with them and i said they live on national notre dame be mature so they will show tyra. Nsa professor who whether being propellers by helping judo's interesting we got on mastectomy kilometers canarsie whopper-o-matic spina cinelli not any anton. Actually throw this this uniform former command. Megan controvery charm. Musica for compare and chino. Nothing the catholic lead the outlier doom. These men and these monitor compagno. She embryo the middle of mass machine and the musical though bell. Groggier albert hold heating. Listen within the simplysafe's going for the manchester case. And i come down. They're going to deadly hold us will per second roll accompanied by belinda said. Okay yeah not the real contest over mentors from this boyce. Said he'll have all and they lose the whole. Play it fucking loud. But i mean acadia calling the youngest so they like a rolling stone. Eleven nada gotomeeting medicine in dudas company. Either off Speak rolling stone damaged quadrants now. Dilemma allocation premier feisty now though the bookham academia when those reveal the dallas confused. Combine to those on your subscription to the times are changing sa eight minutes left alaska the joke when the in america community insults moondog could make us fasting. End up in has go. There's another bedlam in america with allure colloby director for him and albor been t. There's the blade on the spur. Perkin the end this alita. Comfortable adam cockatiel salvo montgomery soberly con salvador nominee media that is to make komo nursing yelich idea staubach theme to go kill sober. Deal will see john rain but as chair. Premera bob dylan indirect akkadian. Chicken farm allen tower the what it means momentous in quarterback on will now they suss gatien bravery emmys least macauley of degrades layup role on beacon. You hand in your mind. I show them to you and you see them. They opposed big grades. Stay stay stay with mad. If you that rageh let me see make smile. His close address it but he his hands. And you're the best thing. Stay stay stay with your man. Wow the poll Do you can have cake and eat it too. Wow in love one. You is banning and proud of you. They approach won't be be the stained stay at night. He's a i long to see you in the morning lined along for you stay. Lady stay. Stay bob dylan composers. Lady lay million with intercession canadian restauration musical since creepy character who scandal moment the haircut Raytheon demand minnesota my. I don't even continuous giving appropriate elam quadra industry director the last of mill. And i think they like rolling stone dylan indirect. I shouldn't have no comment there. A total mundos containers of customers soil. Mobley a conversa- political element. Shallow and he said they spill episode of ram this momentous and now they just throw their galeano maybe ican dylan semes- couple cuneo clear in. Yes okay. i not Penalty that case megan public. They've not allowed to cash in the up. Say get food asean laid right on be the other repertory theatre that they mean interested in day. Think he'll when she did. I did the audio. Bob dylan occur the relation wrote in caen industry don garcia onus It'll be a just for me but india. The second man. I simply matter is the end of the lower coming in tokyo copter to theon. He introduce sarah plato. The comoro mayo and the horrible same bill postcards of the hanging the past paul brown. The beauty parlor is food say lose. The circus is in town. Here comes the blind commissioner. Goddamn trips one. Hand is tied to the tightrope walk. The is in his squad to go is out tonight. This leash cinderella. She seems easy londono. Chih smiled puts a hands in her back. Is betty davis comes romeo. He's moaning jimmy believe then someone says you're in wrong lease my friend. You bet Sound after the says go. Su own dissolution ru hidden stars beginning to fortune terry lady as even taken all inside sept- cain and abel body See a similarity to me's jesse he's getting ready for the show. Is going to zuzu. Leyshon rule sees me a window. Feel free on her twenty second birthday. She already is an old her. Death is quite romantic. She said and fashions religion sin is lifeless fixed approach. The grange time he into did aleisha room stein skies this robinhood three these memories trunk. Pass this we then. Our goal is friend jealous. He looked so immaculately rightful cigarette. Then he went sniffing. Jane residing the you think he was famous. Long lay electric Show rule doc. Gps is world inside all his patients trying to blow it up. Is this some low boo losing. She's in charge of the old as she also keeps the cards. Read half on his. So you can blow your head enough from hsien costas street. Do the curtain speeds the in a perfect job pre spoon feeding cats to get him to feel good then ju him his self confidence after poisoning him with word phantom shouting to skinny girls get outta here. Don't know cazenove is just being punished. Going to death early show avenue all agents super human crew. Come out around. The one that knows more than they'd bring them to the factory bushy strapped to draw stash shoulders and then rock down by ensuring spam go. Check to see that. Nobody is escaping to this. Oh lee sean. And be to lose nip sales at john body shouting You is pound and t s eliot captains towel. Singers laugh at their fishermen whole flowers. Be twee no windows of the c. Lovely on the and nobody asked you. Think too much about this. Early show Received your letter yesterday. The time donna brew. Would you ask me was doing us. That's kind of joe. All these deep blue lynch yes. I cried had to rearrange. Fcc's them all another name. Arcade read too good. Don't send me no more letters. No s mail in from so nation. Bro masks blasting the bob dylan. The must complete lack by on story. S this reaction. Anti-nato bob dylan format orbit while this or not. But i finished for now. Let's let's get him us. And what a momentous. We've won the champions. Who more remote agency ages but after federal criminal contain can aspire to the militia. She may let him go. But i think this could be the athletes on your skin a little. She confirmed that. Calm guy with as well we asked released in a quiet local baba anisimov. Don't remember push them are going. That paid or secular canasta dongola in blue grenada and boom beginning controversy stories. You must it really one. Modern the son was john and he was lying in bed wondering if she james it out for have still folks they said. The live shows gonna be inevitable. Mama's home address papa's bankbook wasn't big enough and he was standing on the side of the road rain falling on his shoes. Ebbing out for the old east coast. Lord knows getting tangled up. She was married when they first soon-to-be-divorced helped her out of a jam. News live too much for us and they drove the car as far as they could abandoned it out lynched and split up on dock sad night both me and it was and she turned around the newgate him as he was walking away. She said this can't be. The end will lead on another day on the avenue. Tunnel had a job in the great north woods. We're as cook bail. He never liked it all that jazz fair way drifted down to la where he try his Working for a while in an airplane. Plant loading go onto a but all the while he was alone past was supposed to be seen a lot of women but she never escaped and he just Bamboo she was working in a top list. Please and stopped in for just can't decide of fish in the spa and later on when the then house about the do this same. She was standing there and back much. Yeah said how some then underneath my parents he studied lands among the a months amid a little uneasy went down attire as is marshes tongue She led a burner on offered me thought yet. Never see him no. She said black aside and and she opened and handed it to be written by italian poet from the dean sancho. One of them words rang true. Lack burning of every page leg was written in my soul meeting tana. He was always in a hurry. Do busy oh david thing. She ever plan just people. He thought they'll success food. She thought they blast objects and material things but i never was praised and when it all came crashing down with now the only thing i knew how do i keep keep it on learned. Upper fam- son. now Going back again that to get some of the people we used to know that. I lose some mathematician. Some doctors don't know how got started. Don't know wadad doing with their lives mud Still on the road akhmed for another john. We always did feel the same. We just from other fine Those recipes does lab the inner city in western analysts. They have been put cassette defy ibooks. Google podcasts that you do is director. Settlers ingles last three million laboratory.

Bob dylan Alfonso cuando canea Circuito contra cochin dome Chico rubio manana Sarah shimon canary rhythm bailey inaba damato lebron sheikh hussein Tambi portola nicky boje america guay bell tony army lou Okamura labradors theon carlo faustina bama chaloner
Let It Roll: Bob Dylan Rocks Folk - Ed Ward's History of Rock & Roll

Rock N Roll Archaeology

1:17:34 hr | 1 year ago

Let It Roll: Bob Dylan Rocks Folk - Ed Ward's History of Rock & Roll

"Welcome to let it. Roll the PODCAST. About how why popular music happens hosted by Wilcox? Follow the literal podcast on twitter at let it roll. Cast check out our website at let it roll. Podcast DOT COM. Let it roll. Is a Pantheon podcast. And you can listen to all the other. Great Pantheon podcasts at. Www DOT pantheon podcasts dot com today Edward and may talk about nineteen sixty six rock and roll second Miracle Year featuring electrified. Bob Dylan the beach. Boys Making headsails stacks hitting stride James Brown getting funky the Beatles dropping acid and the beginnings of the San Francisco Scene Pop in those ear buds in an joy. Time to let it roll Wilcox and today we're joined once again by Ed. Ward the author of the history of rock and roll volume two nineteen sixty four to nine hundred seventy seven the Beatles the stones and the rise of classic rock. This is our second installment of the second book. Ed Welcome back. Hi there and so today. We're GONNA tackle the second chapter of the book. Ns Morale blest to help from my friends explained the title. It's just because as I say at the beginning. The June of nineteen sixty five was a remarkable Month and a lot of important things happen. So that's what It's not a complete year. There's an honest robbers in that sense but it is a strange coming together. Forces that Released a lot of energy into the into the Halter and he started a chapter with three anecdotes that seemingly have nothing to do with what we've been talking about. There's no mention of the charts. Nobody's recorded any hit. Records is three events. The first one is debut of aband- that's not even a band yet. They're total rank amateurs plane at the red dog in Virginia sitting. Vada a ghost town what's so important about the charlatans at the red dog nineteen sixty five will the and were essentially the first San Francisco band that actually had a following other San Francisco Bands. All along in that era. You know the vegetables in the MOJO men like that but really the charlatans through the first through underground band and they came out of a student community in San Francisco mostly people go to San Francisco State and they were the the residents of this neighborhood. Were be- becoming known as hippies new word on the horizon and them and certainly if there wasn't a thing as hippie culture was centered in this In this part of the say we'RE CISCO So what what we're talking about here is the beginnings of the quote Unquote San Francisco scene and The story I'm telling is about that one stories and another thread that you weaving. There is about a poetry reading in London. Now what was it about Allen Ginsberg and Lawrence Furlan Getty and others doing a reading For Barry Miles and the crew there of the London Underground. Why is that relevant to our tale? Well it's because once again the There was a hippie underground coming up in London and Ginsburg was something of a superstar along the Rockstar level and the idea that he was gonna do a rating they wanted to do at the mazdas bookstore with that was ridiculous The crowds would have been too insane. So just there was this Idea to rent the Albert Hall and they did somehow and so gives verschoor rounding up all its both British American. Everybody was traveling a lot at that particular moment so he was able to grab a lot of people that were very important to the poetry. Of course he was star. People came from all Rangeland to attend this event. I don't know how the word got out. Maybe in the music press but likely not it just The people hitchhike there from all over the British isles and there was one guy who came down from inverness in Scotland which is quite a distance a long haul and the third anecdote that you we've been here at the beginning has more to do with the substance than a place It's I guess substance in two places and it connects to the two places. We've already talked about and the substances. Lsd and the Pioneers Air. Ken Casey the the novelist famous for one over the CUCKOO's nest cookies and other Beatles. You get dosed by their dentist right Uh D- was coming into the culture will seeing pretty heavily. There were certain evangelists. You're running around Offering free doses. Anyone who wanted them and there were. There's one guy who is a millionaire. Who had a private plane? I cure is name. The he was really important. Also the psychoactive elements of the chemical. Were attracting serious. Research ideas research programs in Harvard And in Palo Alto California where the military to go were a bit of Stanford University thinking weaponized. Llc is a a means of defeating enemy troops and also up in Saskatchewan awhile places. There was some serious Attention being paid to it as a tool for cycle analysis which Another place where that was happening was Improv checks awash. You were All of a sudden these research projects started spawning I guess you'd say veterans students were needed to take the and be studied as they As they went on their Trips and a lot of them lighted. Wow I I like to get some more of that. I don't WanNa go back to the clinical surroundings that I was in so I demand arose for Lsd is a underground Drug substance and the A chemist named a Stanley Housley Housley. Stanley excuse me Started producing it in his bathroom in Berkeley and volume and quality to. Yes that was. He had a girlfriend who was a chemist as well as he he he was more were physicist chemist but he he knew scientific research and he knew scientific techniques and so's able to do this and someone. God in shower and I met the guy who was living there and he said. Don't take a shower in this house. Unless you're ready to dishes serious stripping apparently it was still it only took tiny amounts of it to get you stoned and So barely just never been cleaned up. Com might be impossible to eradicate but with the PSYCHEDELIC undercurrent that sort of underlies this whole era. And it's a fascinating era where the leading artists are cross pollinating where the English artists are listening to the African American artists and the White American artists are listened to English artists. The folk scene is getting INC and everything sort of coming together. And there's this eighteen month explosion document in this chapter. And you start with the phrase the Brits kept invading and the rolling stones are sort of at the forefront of that in nineteen sixty five with big hit satisfaction. The Miracle Song Keith. Richards wrote in asleep. And and and yeah and then records what he thought was a demo with Acoustic Guitars and fuzz Guitar Filling in for where he heard the horns and probably got the RIFF OFF OF MARTHA. Invent and the vendettas record. And they're using horns and keep uses the fuzz Pedal Andrew Golden. The Stones Manager hears it and they put that out and Keith has to deal with the frustration of having a massive worldwide number. One hit. Well it he's after way to Otis redding recorded it and apparently heard exactly what he heard in terms of the horns and so forth. Although you're picking on them on Motown as a source for it is probably were accurate than stacks because the motown arrangement you're right That was Much influence I I. I hear anyway. What happened in that in that record and it's and it's not just the town so this whole second wave of mostly london-based Rb based bands. The mercy beat bands are kind of fizzling out in this period during the pacemakers from Freddie and the dreamers are still having hits in the states but they're losing ground fast in England. But you've got this hardcore. Kinks are building on their initial success with songs. Like see my friends and a well respected man the who have multiple singles Concluding what substitute there. And then we've got them and Van Morrison and that's GonNa be out for a song sample. Let's your them's version of Gloria Britain by their singer. Van Morrison Club should make a name and that was van. Morrison them with Gloria and that's a classic example of this Pink Clung effect where you've got an Irish band operating a one heavily influenced by RB acts like Ray Charles. Right in a song. That quickly becomes a garage rock anthem for literally hundreds of white bands all across America. It was one of those. It was an era when it wasn't the band that was the big influence. There was a song people were. Were trying to write songs like the song say liked and not always succeeding which is a good thing in this particular context. Yeah at the Sonos. The garage bands like shadows of Knight had massive. Hit with this where it was just a B side for them but you also had to bands. There were direct acolytes of the rolling stones. They both stepped in to alternate taking the stones regular gear the Marquee Club. And what brought you know one of the pretty thinks featured Dick Taylor who was the original basis to the stones and so the yardbirds pretty thinks kind of fight it out And the yardbirds lose during the Eric Clapton period. Can't score hit and England and tell Graeme Goldman's for your love which breaks in England and the states but also cost them their lead guitar player. Eric Clapton who's headed off to seemingly more underground shores with John Mayall blue breakers. He he didn't like the idea playing pop music and he was something with more depth to it so he joined John Males Blues breakers meanwhile the yardbirds bring in somebody else. Yeah which one was Jimmy. Page now back yes JEFF BACK. I and they. They went to Jimmy Page and ask them to and he recommended. Jeff Beck was laboring away in obscurity with the ban called the tridents but immediately Jeff Beck makes his presence felt with Disa- Amazing Guitar. Work not on for your love which hardly has a guitar part at all but heartful a soul and shapes things and multiple songs put the yardbirds. Kind of at the cutting edge of PSYCHEDELIA. Well in Britain yeah and and the animals are also big and they. They're still using outside songwriters and they have a a hit. That makes a big impact in Vietnam of all places written by man. While we gotTA GET OUT OF THIS PLACE. That was one of the Was from Teen Pan Alley that they were given and yet you can just tell from the title of why it was a big deal. Were soldiers in Vietnam. There they would really like to get out of this place and yet again. It was that easy. Yeah and and the the team Pan Alley crew. Goffin and King have a big hits would Herman's hermits and but they don't necessarily penetrate the British invasion that thoroughly. The holidays are resorting to songs. Written by Graham Goldman there in the UK. Dave Clark five writing their songs in house But one massive hit that was written at team Pan Alley was was hang on snoopy which was written by Burt. Burns twisted shout fame and then produced by the crew. That brought The was called the strange loves brought his. I Want Candy. Hang on Soviet Obama's Fan. Yes it's a studio group of three producers and I can't I'm blanking on their names but with the McCoy get I can pull it up real quick but with the McCoy's you've got Rick Derringer a hotshot guitar player mean. Would you consider the McCoy's garage band? Yeah they were sort of like the prototypical garage band. They were from Indiana. Just across the state line from Dayton and Dayton was. The was a place with a lot of team clubs. So that's where they got to play. They were of course also teenagers themselves. And and that's a hit that is massive on both sides of the Atlantic. Angela golden puts it out on his impact record label. Yeah and the. The producer team was Feldman Goldstein. And got her. That's said Yeah Gutter. And they've put that out on Bert Berns Bang records and Bert is also working with Atlantic. His partners in that record label are are the Jerry Wexler editor going from Atlantic. Bang stood for Necessarily and Gerald Scare Jerry. Wexler so it was it was basically the Atlantic owners. They distributed label. They were just I guess. Artistic Partners and Financial Partners Atlantic is still bubbling along at the beginning of this period. There seven solid hits with Solomon Burke but with some of their other artists like Don. Covy Wilson Pickett Sam and Dave. They have to form out to a little label in Memphis that we talked about in the past called. Stacks will yeah. I mean S- taxes started up in a in a barn in a suburb of of Memphis. And the the president. was a A fiddle player the white fiddle player. Who just knew that there was something new something cooking and was was an interracial thing stacks had their first Had their it with the Last night by the marquees which were led by packy accident which was Jimmy Stewart's sister's son and it was a racially integrated ban mean black and white members and booker t and the M. Jeez famous house band is tax was in this period. Originally there were three black African Americans one white guy but then then they bring in Duck Dunn on Bass and replace African American Bass Player in. It's it's a half black half White Combo that power sex did this whole era. Yeah it was fairly easy going place until Martin Luther King Gut shot and then When it wasn't hunting more yeah but in this we'll period they're having Hits on their own without US writing his coming into his own. You mentioned earlier covering this downs. He also writes the song respect. The that later becomes began for eight the Franklin. But you know Wilson Pickett comes to town and Steve. Cropper sits down with them and they write hit songs like in the midnight hour and and Dave come to town and work with is Hayes and David Porter and the classic teaming of singers and Songwriter Producers Book Motown is is really hitting their rhythm at this point. The supremes as we talked about in the last episode broke out big and nineteen sixty four massive number ones and continued that streak working with Holland dozier Holland and the temptations have possibly their biggest hit ever with my girl written by smokey Robinson. What else is going on at motown it was. It was pretty much their breakout year. I mean I don't have the list of chart numbers in front of me but It was That highly which now owns motown put out a twelve volume series of of Multiple CD sets year by year. Every single without by motown and the nineteen sixty five edition of this series is pretty much like a giant grid since record even songs that people. Aren't that familiar with. They've got that magic touch. Well thanks to those. You're in Holland. Songwriting producing team. That Really took over for motown there between them and smokey Robinson motown unbeatable and they yeah Holland dozier Holland bricks out the four tops in this period. Go from being a jazz a would be jazz ensemble. Supper club type Combo to close to Seoul as Motown God. With Levi stubbs just ripping it up vocals and Stevie wonder also breaks with his second hit and this. Yeah I mean Berry Gordy. The head of motown did not like the church oriented so music that was being made in the south Stacks whole aesthetic was completely unwelcome in in motown which is why. A lot of the MOTOWN session players Played for other other labels that had more were Gospel in their In their sound because those guys could play anything but mo- Berry Gordy was was adamant that you're not gonNA reach white people with Glasgow based so music wrong course but but You know at the same time. It's hard to knock his business accurate given the success. They had now cut in our second song. Sample in this is Dont Kobe on Atlantic With a very curtis mayfield influenced Jimi Hendrix. Make one of his first appearances on record a mercy marcy by to recovered by the rolling stones. Don covy see now is done. Kobe with Have mercy and this is a solid immediately covered by the rolling stones and tomatoes is one of the things that's really fun about this period is the synthesis is happening so fast. I mean you've got Jimmy a young Jimi Hendrix no feedback is very unformed Jimi hendrix still doing his apprenticeship on the Chitlins circuit. And you can clearly hear. He's been listening to a ton of Curtis. Mayfield there. And then when you listen to the stones cover the song. Brian Johnson Keith Richards. Come in with a dual guitar attack. That takes some of the elements of the Jimi Hendrix. Riff erases all the finesse and just hammers at home. And it's just a really exciting period of cross pollenisation and kind of leading this charge is Bob Dylan. We last heard from In the last episode during his first rock single that that made the charts in subterranean homesick blues and he keeps it up with the bringing it all back home album. That's half acoustic half electric. And then he brings in Michael Bloomfield from Chicago for a single called like rolling stone right That was a very shocking record. The Blues Band with Mike Bloomfield on guitar. electorate which put it out was known as the blue chip folk label and all of a sudden. They they put this out and it was weird weird looking Dan they were they were black and white too you know and there was this guitar player. Upfront I mean anybody who wouldn't ask Bloomfield to be on their session was just kidding themselves. Yeah Dylan had played with him Through the Albert Goldman Connection. I believe the first time came to Chicago and remembered him and called him up and and told him not to play any of that. Bb King Bullshit right on the and there's no problem for Michael He. He knew it wasn't a blue session. They already knew about other ormes of electric music in the Butterfield Band and another guy that's involved in this. That will come back to you as Tom. Wilson African American producer who produces like rolling stone. Although not the album that falls highway. Sixty one revisited. They bring in Bob Johnston to do that. And we'll come back to Tom. Wilson another guy. That's their out cooper. Who is tar player with the bank called the Blues Project New York and as soon as he sees bloomfield wiping the raindrops off his telecasts? Stratocaster that he hadn't even got a case for Cooper realized he was going to be playing on that session and moved over to Oregon and the two of them Ford's this new electric sound with the piano organ and aggressively guitar. That's going to reverberate comes from Gospel. But it's gonNA reverberate throughout the sixties. But meanwhile on the West Coast. You've got a group of folks. I mean these guys are straight out the new Christy minstrels I came across the Ted Lewis Orchestra or something and Come together and start doing Bob Dylan songs in four four time and then have a massive hit with Mr Tambourine. Man Talk Yards. Yeah and Dylan you drop by their studio to watch the record. Some of and he. He knew that they were maybe not doing exactly like him. But he approved of what they were doing But he had to be kind of circumspect about saying anything in the press. That's not how they were promoting the birds and the rocket to number one on the charts on the single charts and then their first two albums do very well second. It's not their second single but they have another number one hit with a Pete seeger's turn and then they sort of reach for the grail with eight miles high written by Gene Clark and Crosby Jim mcglynn and easily one of the hippest records of nineteen sixty five with with bass parts and guitar parts influenced by John Coltrane Ravi Shankar and all these sort of altro influences. They've been listening to brought together. But it's held up on the charts because of drug references are suspected. Right it it was. It was actually about their British tour and the Keane Line. There's in places while faces can be found and that was a a represents small paces British band who opened for them on the tour. And let's go ahead in here a little bit of eight side. The bed with birds with eight miles high which started out pretty gangbusters on the charts but stalls out at number fourteen. Probably 'cause a Lotta deejays turn it off because of alleged drug references and they kind of made me think of the yard birds which brings Jimmy page eventually and and keeps pushing the envelope toward closer and closer to Psychedelia and then falls apart when Jeff Beck quits on tour the Birds Similarly Gene Clark quits in the aftermath of I think maybe even before they multi single officially comes out even though he was the lead writer and lead vocalist on it and the birds never recovered their momentum. There never you know they start out this epoch. Group having massive number one hits the forefront folk-rock. What's important to note here is. The birds. Were also playing week. Gigs on the sunset strip in Los Angeles and that was a way to get knows by the record industry and to build a fan base but Once they turned into a huge hit making machine they couldn't really afford to spend seven days in elwood Valentine's little whisky Gogo Club. And that leaves the opening for bands like Arthur. Lee's love to come along. Yeah that was the one I was thinking of and that that too was cars the hippie scenes such as it was in Los Angeles. There was a guy named veto mysterious little figure who were sort of like a guru and had them had a lot of 'em dancers they would play records dance back at his house and then they would be continuing to dance. They dance in and out of clubs on the sunset strip. Everybody let him in for free because they were such a you know live event and so if you were abandoned that be dancers liked to dance to. That was a another way to get it successful. Yeah and love is doing so well on the circuit there in LA that they're buying cars and living in a nice houses and and become immediately reluctant to tour which inhibits their growth but they do have an initial hit single. That's not a massive hit on the charts but it bubbles under pretty heavily in as a hit in several regions with Bert Backtrack and how David's Little Red Book. Yeah and I think that was because nobody electric trusted them to be able to write a hit so That that was that was making the rounds and they just they really was recovered a hit off and did with a pretty take on it. Brought back REX disavowed it. Because they didn't get the chord changes right. He prefers the man for band version which is tidier but doesn't have the power that are delay company bring to that song and meanwhile the La Scene. There's also a big studio stink going on and people. Pf Sloan writing songs for people like Barry McGuire. They have this massive massive hit with eve of destruction right. Yeah that was. That was the protest song. Anybody could play really. I mean it was. It wasn't a threatened broadcast license. Being to political it was just a something that nobody can figure out what it was for. It wasn't like Bob Dylan. You weren't being forced to look in a certain direction By the lyrics the song nothing. Concrete was being advocated for their. It was just a mess you know. And even on admitted he didn't know exactly what the Song meant and the most of was pretty automatic when he wrote it and going GonNa continue to have hits with with another group in L. A. The turtles but meanwhile the focus is quick to figure out falk. Rock is a big opportunity and and sort of loose coterie of of singers and musicians at had been playing in Greenwich Village Spin out in a two different bands. One the Lovin spoonful with John. Sebastian's all off skate stay in New York with Buddha records and immediately start having hits like do you believe in magic. And the others. John Phillips and Mama Cass and company go to the West Coast and hookup with an M. records and become the Mamas and Papas with California. Dreamin yeah that was I was actually kind of sad. Cass Elliot was were of a solo to a woman. Power were unseen who attracts To the brightest lights She she in fact was the one who introduced Zaillian off. Sqi Two John Sebastian Junior. Then that was the worry that was how the love is. Cruel began to happen with those two guys. H other in living room and later she introduces David. Crosby and Graham Nash. The holidays and they spinoff crosby stills Nash so yeah the big player on underground scene and John Phillips is GonNa go on to be a big power behind him. Monterey pop festival as well but in the meantime their massive hit makers in the sixty five sixty six period and kind of bring The hippie ideal into the mainstream in a big way and then other Folk Rock Group. I want to mention. They don't try to be folk said simposed on them talk about Simon and Garfunkel. Of course who record an album. Wednesday morning three. Am that straight acoustic folk with original songs by Paul Simon. It's a flop. They break up. Garfunkel goes back to school. Paul Simon goes to England. And then Tom Wilson that we've been talking about as a producer for Bob Dylan finds their tracks and ads electric back into it and it becomes the sound of silence. Yeah big hit it. He didn't even tell the that he'd done that. And Paul. Simon was not hanging around Skanky folk clubs in rural England and attracting a up to twenty five people on a given evening goes back to the United States to discover that Is His record is number one. It was something he'd never you know he knew nothing about wasn't really happy about from what I understand. 'cause he'd he'd recorded another album. Solo in England for Columbia and had to change his plans at up. Ben and adapt and Simon and Garfunkel did famously of course and Tom Wilson's tenure at Columbia comes to an end right around this period and he goes to GM verve and signs a couple of really bands. Possibly the most out out there groups that you talk about the chapter one of them is Frank Zappa and the mothers of invention in La. Yeah and he. He was able to convince verve that they were a blues band they had signed and then I probably figure he's black. He knows what the blues are. There's so as was banned. That's what happened. And then they. They hit the market with Pretty unprecedented mix of satire. Like you mentioned in the book Zappa Had been busted by local sheriff on some pretty trumped obscenity charges. He'd been trapped. He was solicited to make a dirty audio recording. Whatever that is and then I busted and does time Jalen seemingly scarred him for life because ever after he's obsessed with smut jokes and Sattari everybody and the album freakout that comes out. When I double albums to come out has beautiful cover and ZAPPA trouble. The pop charts a great deal but he sells a lot of records and has a big impact on the hippie culture. May Well I'll tell Wilson's other signing for Verve has immaculate counterculture credentials coming out of Andy Warhol's plastic exploding inevitable in New York but the velvet underground and Nico don't click with the incipient counterculture. No they were too dark they were too negative and then they work going to fit into the peace love those and and that's also interesting to me that their first album was recorded in spring of sixty six for the most part but doesn't come out to six until sixty seven and I I don't think it would have ever been a commercial hid under any circumstances in that point in time but I do think it would have fit in better with in sixty six than it did in sixty seven ifs. Buts are candies and nuts. Say there and and so. Yeah Wilson just a fascinating character and really at the center of this era both Cutting massive hits like Simon and Garfunkel and and like like rolling stone for Bob Dylan but also planting seeds. They're getting continue to sprout in sort of the two headed beast of the Rock Avant. Garde you've got sort of the conventional European classical music influenced strain represented by ZAPPA. And then you've got the More jazz and underground beat influenced side and the velvet underground and those are both gonna I would reversers to Especially John Kale was in the ground and he was in the American because he won a prize sponsored by Leonard Bernstein as a young classical composer. It's trues Zappa Have Jazz credentials? Developed underground definitely have classical music. But they're classical music was kind of more primitivism and ZAPPA was more drawn to the ornate more. Technically polished type composers twelve. Tone grant was improvisation. Yes end up. Epa was a control freak. Yes even his jazz albums barely allows people to improvise new. I know about in terms of ZAPPA's Jazz Ozzie. He was a guy who really thought he was a great master while John is a music and There were really impressed me as being that. But he's got a oil following but I'm more of a captain be far Guidance forgot into anything else. He introduces boyhood friend. Don Van Bleed to the world as captain be hard up be far on am records around this period during a pretty powerful. Jalan Wolf impression and not really giving any to the craziness that's GonNa come and another trend. That's happening along the same time is blue eyed soul which is artists like the young rascals in. Long Island Mitch Ryder Detroit. The righteous brothers on the west coast that are white guys that are wearing their soul influence on their sleeve. And make an impact on the charts. They won't Wouldn't do Gospel oriented so music these these white kids definitely we're capable of doing it and the case of the righteous righteous brothers with Phil Spector produced seen Eve loss eleven feeling is one of the biggest hits of that or any era you and the thing is they were just another nightclub act. They've been playing around clubs in in the west coast forever. You know. I'm sure that when so specter called people he'd signed the righteous brothers. That people had to win. Now y just another just another one of those acts. Yeah but with the Songwriting Team. He put together. I think it was Ellie Greenwich and Specter Forgetting Greenwich Partners Name and then the specter production style. It's sort of the. It's really the last gasp Phil Spector's glorious run. He's GonNa Bring on. I Tina Turner for one last attempt in nineteen sixty six but that one river deep mountain highs one toke over the line is they say it definitely was. He didn't understand that kind of this kind of song as he was trying to make his stuff resolved very much his individualism and he tried to To do some well when he tried to do. Say A JERRY. Ragu boy production what he was trying to do. I think It was it was bound to fail. It doesn't hold together. It's not as great a records. He thought it was yeah. It had a big impact in England. But it it. It didn't hit it all in the states. Kinda cop between White programmers who didn't WANNA play an I contain at Turner record and black programmers. Who didn't want to play that record because it was very in a record because it didn't sound like them no not at all. Although it is you can hear if you listen to sixties prog rock like a pro quo harems whiter shade of Pale. I think definitely bears the stamp of somebody who listened to river deep mountain. I A whole lot. So it's being heard people like Andrew. Golden and others make a big splash about it in England but it doesn't do much in the states in another artist. An accolade Phil Spector out there in. La Who Has Been a hypocrite throughout this whole early sixties period is Brian Wilson and he's watching specter closely. He's hiring a lot of the same session musicians. The crew that's later known as the wrecking crew. And he makes pet sounds and good vibrations and of that pattern repeats. He has some hits in the states. Good vibrations is big everywhere. Pet sounds really more accepted in England than it is in the states. Yeah it was. It was just not the kind of guitar centered. Virtuosity I think the record buyers were looking for in the states. That point yeah. It's an eccentric record lyrics by Tony Asher. It's very mature contemplative album men and you know made for lonely sad people and that's that's not generally. Yeah like Brian Wilson and and so it took a long time for that to be acknowledged as a masterpiece which has since but good vibrations on. The other. Hand is an immediate number one hit. It's got fairmont on it. It's got you know it was the fruit of multiple sessions. He's twenty thousand dollars on it. Which is an incredible fortune for nineteen sixty six to make a record but kind of like Phil Spector? That's the last gasp for Brian Wilson. He's descended into madness. Fairness sand covered Home Studio Yeah. He he's It will it was Smile that really did admit it was he. He wanted to make a masterpiece as every track on that record his teenage to God idea and he's basically taking too much else the not handling it well and he was also kind of losing the group they they were not quite as dedicated to his style of experimentation but one band that is listening very closely to a Brian Wilson. Do and he's listening to them. It's again this. This guy cycle this virtuous cycle of cross influencing is the Beatles who haven't talked about so far but you know they have a big they. I wouldn't say they had a massive hit with the help movie. But it's a big hit. They're still the Beatles. It's it's it's the Beatles in technicolor. The hell out of sponge yesterday and and help Newton taken to ride numerous singles but then December sixty five. They dropped rubber soul which partly because of Capitol Records Ham handed butchery in random track. Assignments sounds a lot more like folk rock than the English version does right. Yeah the the Beatles were able to do acoustic music. And then that's that was was there you know you've gotta hide your low away that was. It became a- folk rock hit in the United States in the hands of another band called the Silky which their name was a direct reference to a famous Scottish folk song and then the the Beatles follow that with revolver which takes experimentation and all kinds of directions including the way ahead of its time tomorrow never knows which was covered virtually no promote by the chemical brothers in the nineties was a big hit record. And said you know you've got them doing everything from symphonic rock with Eleanor Rigby to absolute psychedelic experimentation tomorrow? Never knows kids songs in yellow submarine then. They launched this worldwide tour. Doesn't go well at all. Partly because things John Lennon has said yes that's true. He is will comment about you know. We're bigger than Jesus didn't go over too well with the Jesus. Crowd is a big chunk of the American record buying public. Yeah he was not thinking. And that's that's what happened. Yeah Gut he sent me apologize for it later but The damage had been done. There were the bonfires and well that was. Actually there was Stationed in Texas that sponsored. A bring your Beatles albums on fire and the next day. The transmitter was hit by lightning. Bolt Karma there but the real. You're worried you know. Yeah but the Beatles do retire from touring that sixty six tour and in cal. State Park is the last forever Beatles tour and another artist who explodes big to this period. Bob Dylan who follows up highway? Sixty one with an album cuts in Nashville It brings back out. Cooper has Robbie Robertson from the band but nobody else the band. Everybody else's Nashville session. Cats and records blonde on blonde and then has a big hit with rainy. Women Number Twelve and thirty five AK. Everybody must get stoned somehow. He doesn't run into a record bands radio bands because of that but then he does a tour of England That's pretty famous and infamous. Oh Yeah Yeah that was. That was the tour that he He took he basically grabbed. Ronnie Hawkins Band the Hawks from Canada. Their drummer was really American in the band the only US citizen he was from Arkansas. Leave on 'em he didn't WanNa go to your so they. They just got another drummer to be in the band. Remember his name. He was from Houston of all places. Yeah it's I think making Jones is his name. He's later at TV performer. Yeah it was and and and the band was just you know red hot and there was also an affront to Dylan's fans as as the appears and at the Newport focused had been they just really didn't want him playing electric for no particular. Good reason. It's just not how you do. Yeah and and the Ara of craziness around Dylan you know both out Cooper Michael. Bloomfield opted out of Toronto. And because he wanted to stick with Paul Butterfield but Al Cooper Tortoise them for a little while then dropped out because he didn't WanNa be there. When don't got assassinated and the craziness Around Dylan is not quite as intense as that around the Beatles but it's very similar and so there's this between Phil Spector Brian Wilson and the Beatles retreating from the road and then Dylan retreating from the road. A lot of the leaders of this movement are crashing Bernie okay. We're a lot more where they came. Pro That's very true. Very true and one of is Michael Bloomfield. Who was the Paul Butterfield? Blues Band continues to just blaze and they cut an album called east. West has a huge impact on the incipient psychedelic scene hours. That was the product of much else the and jamming with bishops the other guitarist and the Butterfield band enters based on some song called. It's about time by Nick. Grab an ICE. Which is why he got the The songwriting credit for the for the track weirdly enough and meanwhile Bloomfield's closest analog in England. Eric Clapton Cuts a record with John. Mail the blues breakers album. That's one of the first records Marshall Stack on record with the Les Paul Revolution Gather Soun- but he's not happy and immediately spends often forms. A group called cream well. He was probably influenced by management to emphasize himself more which mail was not about to let him. Do I mean males always had was breakers? That was his band blues. Breaker the moment is that's kind of hard to say so He He's already been cutting. Solo. Records is a Is an album. Electric did that Features some Butterfield tracks and also remember way. He called the Eric Clapton. The there's a powerhouse and here he was doing that that kind of music. But was Steve Winwood also playing on the track. And you know He. Wow I can do a band with other virtuosos and there were all these people who had been in blues bands and interval bands for jazz bands inside in the clubs. So there were there were people to grab. 'em Did his manager Robin Singh would Helped him get Ginger Baker on drums? And Jack Bruce on on base and now you the power trios formed and so the underground is sort of blossoming through Clapton and Bluefield. But meanwhile the pop side of things SORTA strikes back. The Herman's hermits are pry drawn bigger crowds in some places in the Beatles were and having big hits but One of the guys the architects of Teen Pan Alley thinks there's an opportunity on TV and they can't get the Beatles so they put together their own prefabbed four. Yeah the monkees. It was it was a it was a thing about about Music Publishing Really. It was The the actual group didn't matter as much as the songs that getting a hit song through television exposure was They hadn't really been tried before and yeah so since Columbia screen gems music was bankrolling the show. That was that was how they made their money. And Yeah Don Kirshner put it together. The project and Boyce and Hart were the main writers and producers. But y'all said Neil diamond and Goffin and king and and you know kind of the whole team panel crew gets back together and has another run with the monkeys who take a lot of heat for being openly a manufactured group or it's hard to conceal the their records but this is the same model. That Phil Spector at us at the beach. Boys have been using and Motown as probably the king of it. But another group that combines. Tv and team Pan Alley is a Paul. Revere and the raiders. Well to an extent they were a a real group in the Pacific northwest. Doing instrumentals the idea that they were group. That was another thing entirely once again. They were they were doing Song written the and let's hear a Paul Revere. And the Raiders. Doing Kicks Song by Berryman and Cynthia. Weil inspired allegedly by Gary Geffen. Goffin's drums kicks night. Should back vessel. That was Paul Revere. And the raiders with kicks which is kind of coalesce has numerous trends. You've got the team panel aside. The Paul Revere and the team were getting enormous Tv exposure but they also have legitimate garage band credentials coming from the Pacific northwest. They did an early version of Louis. You know were or peers of groups like the Sonics and the original wailers up there and they bring it all together in another drug references song although this one is seen as an anti-drug song and isn't completely crushed by the censors rover going around the time that Goffin and king had got money from the American logical society. Some some trade group as a way of saying don't miss used drugs in that Song Iro that's true or not but it was a very pervasive rumor to time you mean meanwhile rather than Goffin and King. Sorry. You're right. Yeah Yeah it's it's easy to mix up the tape. Pinelli a tour but this this idea abs produced groups and also there's a lot of interest in interracial groups around this time and so in L. A. There's a group called the rising sons featuring the african-american Taj Mahal vocals and the Anglo American Guitar. Wonder Kit Right cooter on guitar. And meanwhile an Montreal and Detroit. A group called the minor birds Featuring a young Rick James on vocals and Neil Young and Bruce Palmer on Guitar Bass and actually signed to motown yeah. Well that's not as weird same motown has this. I mean Detroit a tunnel in it that you go into the inside of the tunnels Canada Canada's really there are parts of Canada. There's south of Detroit Windsor Ontario. For one it's just an accepted thing in Detroit but unfortunately James is in trouble with for a wall from the navy and Berry Gordy talks him into to come clean and do in his jail time and has begins a lifelong relationship with motown. That's going to blossom big in the late Seventies. But that sends Neil Young and Bruce Palmer to allay where they're GONNA meet Steve Stills inform the Buffalo Springfield meanwhile in San Francisco a number of groups are co lesson. One group. That warlocks is coalesced. Around can Casey. And since changes their name they were they were a direct result of the of the Stanford Group of LSD Aficionados. Kind of the House band for Ken. Casey in the Merry Pranksters and what they they were also independent in the they got to Th they weren't really affiliated with any group of people they were just they were bluegrass band. That went weird and very weird becoming the grateful dead and meanwhile again a Mardi Belan. Who's got his own club. The Matrix Forms of folk rock group Kinda modeled on the Mamas and Papas but with their own guitars bass and drums inc. And that's the Jefferson airplane right and they. They had a real blueprint in their mind but unfortunately lost their their first female singers in yet Anderson though she got pregnant and had to leave the band just as they were taking off. I mean I remember hearing the Jefferson airplane on the pop station when I went to college. In nineteen sixty five in Dayton. This radio station was playing them. Like any other poppet. The first San Francisco Band re signed to a major label in our CIA and put out the first album but it doesn't hit the charts in a big way although it's bubbling under then. They lose their drummer. Skip SPENCE WHO's GonNa go under form Moby Gripe and Sydney Anderson like you said WHO's pregnant retirement road but they find a replacement for Sydney in Grace. Slick of Great Society right the that of the many groups there were around there Darby Slick Grace's husband her husband Bryan. You've got that wrong in the book it's He. He was her brother-in-law not not her husband. I can't remember what her even accomplished. instrumental several Indian history said studied classical Indian techniques I don't know where but He he was known in the Indian music scene and he brought some of that to to the group they had the Great Society and he writes on called somebody to love which is going to go on to become the Jefferson. Airplane's hit slips husband. Was Jerry that drummer and dot com right the same time you know you've got big brother. And the Holding Company from Texas and I find Janice Joplin quick. They weren't from Texas. They were they were. San Francisco Will Sam Andrews was from Texas though a the and so is Janice offline but the band formed San Francisco. So it's a San Francisco band but I just gotTa get Texas connection but are also connected. Guy Named Chet Helms and he takes over avalon and has a rival bill. Graham who launches shows at the fillmore? Right that she's the people came back from the summer at the at the Red Dog They they formed a concert promotion agency called the family dog. And they've put on the first of the The the equivalent of the Ultra reading in. London was a show called a truce doctor. Strange where the Charlotte and a lot of other same bands that nobody was really aware. Were there Got To play on stage and once again that attracted a whole bunch of people who had this she. I didn't know there were so many of us kind of moment and They they It was the first San Francisco dance you know that that the became the template for all those avalon things they sought the they sold the name to. Chet. Helms who was in San Francisco. Where you for Lamar legalize marijuana Lobby group he was fund raising for the well. Talk about well ahead of your time. The about forty years ahead of their time with that one and and and another group. That's there I got to mention is the thirteenth floor elevators from Austin Texas. Who actually who have a reasonable head? It's a big hit and Texas and also a number two on the San Francisco local charts and they play the ballrooms for a while even though they're fallen apart from rocky. Ericsson's LSD abuse Well they were required by I can't remember which guy in the band Tommy Hall. The Jug play was was a bit Austin lobbyists fearless and they. They were required by him to take acid. See that help them. Yeah and and it. It did not bear the fruit that he was thinking as far as we know and the film was interested in venue had been historically an African American venue there in San Francisco and it was it was where was good jazz. Groups played new back when Jasmine dancing. That was where people way it was giant. I believe a church one point because there is a A board to one side stage which we're supposed to be listed and they discovered a whole bunch. These little pieces of wood that you would stick in this board. So the congregation would none of the The Ham is going to be used during the service But it was actually jazz club. It had its rock and roll history Moment early on when Johnny Otas discovered the Lester there And she was a performer. A lot of lack performers came up at San Francisco's center black music. Although there's there's one connection to the what's coming in our in the next few years there in San Francisco and ironically he's tied to the One San Francisco Group. That's not part of this incipient ballroom scene but is having hits and that's the folk rock rumbles and I'm talking about sly stallone. Who produced the first album right and the the great society singles and the vegetables singles? So Lester Stewart as he is actually named he would he was A wizard engineer. Who was a disc jockey in case okay so l. Radio in San Francisco and he was a pretty big presence on the scene he he mainly wanted to work Doing production and his partner was Tom Big Daddy Donahue they this jockey some renown on the local top forty station but yes sliced on he was everywhere and and watching the sink closely and and putting together his master plan that will be talking about future episodes with meanwhile on the West Coast. There's those a some other rb you mentioned Jerry. Rag w-we the producer and he gets an opportunity to take over the of what would have been a Frank Sinatra session and brings in Lorraine Ellison do stay with me and let's hear a little bit. Stay with me before you talk about. And that was boring. Also with stay with me which isn't a pop hit but does perform strongly on the RB charts and it's a really remarkable record. Yeah that's the kind of thing that Specter was aiming for. But he didn't have. He didn't have the Understanding Gospel Music. That rags had always had all these famous. Jerry ragged voice songs. There's time on my side time times on my side Get it while you. Can you know a lot. Lot is his records. Were not only are in beheads got covered by Jan Janice Joplin record. Several of Ragu records covers covered a the piece of my heart burns. That is a big big brother. But that's a couple of years in the future. Meanwhile the New Orleans Rhythm and blues scene they don't have a native New Orleans record company to push him but they do have l. onto saw the Neville brothers Lee Dorsey go on quite an eye hits. Yeah that was that was Cosmo Matassa owning a really great Really great recording studio in New Orleans loose sounds just right and of course there were musicians coming out there. Here's I mean there's so many of the so. It was the beginning of a golden here for new uncertainty. Although the Taussig been there forever and had record dominance I hits nearly fifties analog. Those same players Crossover knits. Very much tradition. You know connecting fats domino throughout Tucson to the meters and what goes on in the seventies and eighties and nineties and onto this day. Meanwhile the guy that was the king of RB. The last episode we did. James Brown has been tied up with lawsuits with King records right. He wanted to A bigger slice of the PIE or something. I don't know he's what was going on He'd had his his arguments the king and they didn't see either they'd never seen either. I. You know it's his first record airplane into the studio. In Sydney the head of King came in. And and just you know what's going on here. That guys always doing a sing one word please. What's that all about and it turned out to be a gigantic hit. Nali for James Brown for King Records and And yet sid seem to be suspicious of what was that James was towing and he's cut into major ground drops to singles. Papa's got a brand new bag and I got you. I feel good that lie the template down for a whole new genre of music funk. Yeah Yeah James seems to know what he was doing. Alot plenty weird. It wasn't really connected in any identifiable way with what else was going on in rhythm. Blues James says was in his own world. Yup and and he's GonNa pull the world to follow it. Meanwhile you close the chapter with one other development that's happening to Atlantic and you know they've kinda struggled in the mid sixties. They got the relationship with stacks which carried him over But they make a big signing ride around this time who joins up Atlantic a major Detroit town during Franklin. She'd been around forever and she's actually made her recording debut on a Gospel record. Done it her father's church. And and Jerry Wake Sorta remembers listening to that and thinking. She's I wonder if this girl could still sing is turned out. Of course she was signed to Columbia records as a jazz artist. Making really not very good records. You can hear somebody had a talent and she also had success. She was touring which is actually got to hear respect coming in from the Detroit airport and the rational version of the song was on the Radio. And and that yeah. That was one of the Great Day. You always dropping these little nuggets in the. I had vaguely think I had on one of those Sub Pebbles compilations. But I didn't know that they had done respect and again it's at Cross pollenisation that I'm talking about. You've got an African American soul group and reading in backed by booker teen. Mg's in Memphis drop in a song and then it's covered by a white garage band in Detroit and then it's heard by Aretha Franklin a Gospel drenched African American also Detroit. And she's GonNa take that song to muscle shoals and we'll talk about that next time. Good idea so. This has been nate. Wilcox Edward were discussing. Ed's the history of rock and roll volume two nine hundred sixty four to nineteen seventy seven the Beatles stones and the rise of classic rock at Malek Forward to the next one to follow the. Let it roll podcast on twitter at let it roll cast and check out our website at let it roll podcast dot com next week Ed Ward. We'll be back to talk about nineteen sixty seven year of Monterey pop when the Beatles Lost Brian Epstein and gain the Maharishi. Brian Wilson. It and Otis redding died. Let it roll as a Pantheon. Podcast and you can listen to all the other. Great Pantheon podcasts at. Www DOT pantheon podcasts dot com the history of rock and roll volume two nineteen sixty four to nineteen seventy seven the Beatles stones and the rise of classic rock his published by Flatiron books. Please support our show by ordering via the Amazon referral link on our website. Let it roll. Podcasts DOT COM. My name is Dome Carter. Aka Dim were native long. We're two thirds of the crew that host the dead rat pod Third Co host internationally acclaimed hip hop writer. David as the name of the rose suggest deadline rap pod is a podcast were men of a certain age discussed they in dissect rallies while we are somewhat classicist in our tastes and grew up listening to hip hop from the eighty S. Until now we're also interested in the music's present and future over the past hundred fifteen episodes. We have been interviewed rap. Legends like Chris Paul Del the Funky Homo Sapiens Kooky Egypt and even the Proto rap group the last poets name. We also make it a point to talk to writers commentators and creatives shaping the genre. We've interviewed journalists bestselling authors like Nathaniel Friedman Jeff Weiss and Abdul and Ataman's. Back and as nate mentioned even though we are products of the eighties and nineties. Take time out to talk to some of the most important voices unwrapped today groups and individuals like little brother open. Mike Eagle Billy Woods. And if you don't recognize any of those names that's okay because what we love most on this podcast is to introduce old school fans of rap music to new music that we know new episodes every week on Thursday. We are the dead Bud rap pot my name is Demon Carter Aka Demo and I'm long and we're two thirds of the crew that host the deadlock rap pod or Third Co host is internationally acclaimed hip hop writer. David Ma as the name suggests deadline rap pod is a podcast where men of a certain age discuss the faith in dissect rallies while we are somewhat classicist in our tastes and grew up listening to hip hop from the eighties. Until now we're also interested in the music present and future over the past hundred fifteen episodes. We have been interviewed rap legends like Fritz. Paul del the Funky Homo Sapiens. Roxanne Kooky Keith Egypt premier even the Proto rap group the last poets Justice. We also make point talk to writers. Commentators and create is shaping the genre interviewed journalists and bestselling authors like Nathaniel Friedman Jeff Weiss and heath. Keep an atom man's back and as nate mentioned even though we are products of the Eighties Nineties. Take time out to talk to some of the most important voices and wrap today groups and individuals like little brother open. Mike Eagle Billy. Woods for if you don't recognize any of those names that's okay because what we love most on this podcast is to introduce old school fans of rap music to new music that we know new episodes every week on Thursday. We are the dead bud rap pod.

Bob Dylan England San Francisco Beatles Lsd Motown West Coast producer Phil Spector Los Angeles Jerry Wexler United States Texas Michael Bloomfield Martin Luther King specter John Detroit Eric Clapton James Brown
#198 - Artists Who Have Famous Parent Musicians + Aubrie Sellers on New Music and Her Famous Mom Lee Ann Womack

Bobbycast

35:26 min | 1 year ago

#198 - Artists Who Have Famous Parent Musicians + Aubrie Sellers on New Music and Her Famous Mom Lee Ann Womack

"Listen now crook and chase nashville chats with countries hottest trio runaway june. It's backstage reveals emotion a bunch of laughs. They are the real deal. Listen subscribe at apple podcasts or on the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts welcome to the episode one ninety eight and i'll say this entire episode was inspired by the guests we're going to have later because i wanted to get aubrey sellers and resellers and talk to her and then she's done full because before we could build around our resellers and and <hes> her mom is leeann womack and she's been able to kind of create her own identity outside of being leeann will max kid as a matter of fact i think whenever and you can go back and check in bobby cast of already talking even in i was like you know we'll talk about it. I know this isn't like for me. I don't think he's just lean with my daughter but we do talk about there and we'll talk to her. She got some great music out but this whole episode was inspired by her an esco and we've talked to aubrey the mighty going. Oh we should do a whole thing about people famous parents. Sometimes you forget about them. We got a whole crew in for the podcast today to talk about this. <hes> first of all mike do produces the show which i'll say this. I think this the idea was mind but might need the heavy. Lifting on a lot of the research is that accurate as accurate and i think that's kind of how we do some of these. I'm like oh you know b. Call mike what if we you did artists who were blue jeans on tuesday go find everyone of them and then he goes and does a lot of the research and we talked about it also bringing in <hes> producer eddie. Yeah who's who's a part of the sore losers podcast yeah you like sports checked it out and also have an episode coming up with <hes> brent michaels who was the program director of our station the ball in bakersfield and also z so he's actually here too and so. We thought we'd let you hang out and stuff to thank you. What's up so <hes>. Let's talk about musicians with parents who are also famous musician. It's a pretty cool topic. If i say that and i'll go i'll do resellers i yeah. I guess that's aubrey. She has <hes> the parents jason sellers and leeann womack and as the stepdaughter of the music franklin delegate a lot of miranda stuff uh-huh so she's like hey listen. I've had a lot of chances to she sounds like a rock and roll this and as the inspiration to this podcast eddie i come to you. I wanted to say because you don't have on the list. I don't wanna say artists that have parents that were also musicians. Who do you have right off. The bat is one of my favorites. I mean i've a huge bob dylan fan and when i found out that jacob dylan dillon was bob dylan son the wallflowers. You've got to have him on your list right. Guess here bob dylan in here is jacob dylan from the wallflowers. Maybe people didn't know that. I did know that just making sure. Make sure you're over there. So we're all kind of music basic nerds here though i like some people live their whole life not knowing that this son of bob dylan jacob dylan the leasing the wallflowers and as a solo artist <hes> <hes> the fact that the group takes his name bob songs is only one of the similarities the wallflowers. What song is that what might be what song is that. You just copy obvious that line. I mean that's a good tidbit. They're dealing guy books books. Hits books are weird because it's almost like i mean and you you have a couple of books too so you understand but i think when i when i read the bob dylan book it's like he's scatter brained and he's all over the place and i feel like that's kind of how he is. He's very stream of consciousness. Yes and funny and funny story. When i met willie nelson i mean we hung out for like an hour hour hour and a half we willie nelson and it's a right around the time that <hes> bob dylan released his book chronicles and so i asked him like see you bob like so. What would you read the book. It's like yeah. I i read that crap and i think you know really say it's just a bunch of BS like bob dylan man to be as it is like i love that and i think bob dylan dylan to has kind of evolved and grown up and been like yeah man that is a bunch of BS me as a young kid a bunch of BS from the wallflowers like sixth avenue avenue heartache desert jam or an adam dirt saying background in that song. I feel like we covered this. In one of our podcast famous backgrounds songs <hes> okay. I have two points. I wanna make one about i wanna do jacobson. Willy nelson willy nelson could have a story about him. <hes> so jacob dylan whenever he first started did not want people know he's bob dylan son correct so he would just in different last names different names he would wanted to be an artist on his own and did make it and before the waffles really known he wasn't jacob dylan and was like all right people know i'm gonna go and be jacob. That's good. I mean i feel for an artist. That's a good thing that's what you want your your dad's of one of the i would say the most famous songwriter of all time bob dylan's not like the first real <hes> folk songwriter yeah <hes> i mean peop- you gotta get you have to have a career and live up to that. It's hard that would be tough off by willie nelson story because i'm right in the middle of watching this documentary about the history country music willie nelson talks about in it he was booking. I think bob wills and the playboys the texas playboys so yeah he was fourteen years old as a concert promoter and he was like you know what we here's like. Oz fourteen. I just pay him center and fifty bucks and i'd hope that i made enough money at the door pay him and he was talking about and he was fourteen years old booking shows and taxes promoter why i thought that was pretty crazy. Yeah uh speaking of willie nelson willie's on the list so here we go. Here's willie lou ray. What am the songs ever and here's a son lukas nelson <hes> yeah i think for a lot of people lucas kind of pierce that mainstream in the the movie stars that was banned. Yes yes that was as being. I think you wrote a lot of the songs in that movie did he. Is that true he did. Why why don't you believe me. They do think in front of everything. I say. She was born brent. I did i did. I thought it was really good. Did you like it because everyone else said it was good or did you like it because you really thought like to. I saw probably a year after everybody saw it but it was really good so willie nelson his son lukas nelson then he's the lead singer of lukas nelson of the promise of the real and i wanna southwest flight once looks elsewhere this whole bam you saw him on fire yeah. My dean are selling the plant luke's nelson all the guys walk via really yeah. Did they smell like no. They smell good well. They didn't smell bad. No i meant like did. They smell like i'm saying in october over two thousand eight lucas job to the college he wrote music for a star is born and also appeared in the movie with an bradley's backing band so there's one brennan coming to you when you think of artists singer's famous parents. Who do you have country otherwise. I enter anything you want and right off. The top of my head will smith jaden smith. You know what wow i wouldn't have thought of that. I didn't think that one either interesting jaden. What is he done. He's an actor. I don't know the rapper though always do you have any song yeah. Here's like a giraffe career is he up on the wall okay but we have bryan laterals kid but we don't have jaden smith brian aww backstreet boys is one of the ones we're talking. We were like brian. Latrobe bipolar actually worst it. Lets his kid do bailey latrell. He's like thirteen or fourteen sixteen okay. He's a singer. He's been an opening for the battery idea country singer really four four years. Maybe just maybe girl continues bailey latrell backstreet boy bailey. The troll isn't the only musically inclined when the article says his sixteen year old son bailey jumped into action with don't knock it he made his broadway debut in the musical disaster in two thousand sixteen and he's opening for the backstreet boys on their world tour. That's cool so i- jane smith works i would say more so than bailey literal way off the board now good for you. Here's one here's an interesting for you interesting when is miley and billy ray. Oh wow thought about for a minute on magnum bragging just don't think on the stand and obviously miley so her name is william is what eddie can you name it. Ooh it's not miley no samantha. Do you know mileage elaborate brandy. They know brandy is his center sister sister dr sister yeah. Her name is destiny. Hope cyrus destiny hope she was born with supra ventriloquist tire tire some little puppet yeah no. It's <hes> a condition with an abnormal resting heart rate. Oh wow her birth name. Destiny hope expressed her parents shoot accomplish published great things her parents need nickname smiley which later shortened to miley so as interesting. You didn't know what you know her. Her godmother is brent tribute. Miley cyrus godmother is dolly dolly parton area. That's well look you now. Do you think let me ask you and question here. Do you think miley has surpassed billy ray. Yes okay. This is unique in that sense. Philly has had three careers ears at least three sure re generations of who he is <hes> billy ray cyrus with achey break your heart basically a one hit wonder <hes> i've had a a couple of songs in country but people really just know like i would know that song about <hes>. What am i going to do when i get home. Do we have in the system. What am i going to do when i get home. Where am i going to go. When i get home billy ray cyrus. Let me know if we have any other really right. Is that off that album that <hes> some gave all. I am not even going to pick. What do we do we it. Would you mind hitting it on pulling it over okay if you if we do have it let me here but again. If i say that you don't even know it right right now because he's and then he came back again for for miley cyrus in hannah montana which she was a part of your so she was the star and then he came back in an old town road as the second guy. I'm current now. I would say miley. Elite has far surpassed billy ray. I agree with that. When we got a couple in the system. Okay could have been me. Some gave all okay poison. The boys and i just think it's unique in in this in this list because most of it's just like these kids have to live up to their parents and what they did here. It's it's like you have a kid that kind of yeah. She became what they wanted her to do. She was he. They want her to do big things she did. She's a superstar yeah eddie. Can you the other one over to you. Yeah hank williams junior senior. Yeah and i guess you could even go hang the third one i wanted to. That's kind of and you know what i think there may even the fourth is is there. I don't know if there's not the next one sir yes here we go here is hank. Williams williams can talk yeah. There's a t- his dad in the song it was one of those oh king cole things when natalie and natty braves. She brought her dead dad back to sing with his old version. I always like it when they do that. I did too and they both saying yes tear in my beer and there's a thing to where like they have tearma beer and they're from hey junior. There's a tear crying for you do home alone. It feared fried or you. Did you own mile alone. <music> only my buddies they say he can get about my wheelhouse not seeing but i just feel you like hank williams junior in the third or whatever and i feel like they've all embraced the fact that their families all in music and like the the difference difference between the artists trying to get away from my dad was an artist. I don't want i want i want my identity here. They're just like yeah. This is us also named after them so they take young become get away from that did and hank junior. No one died in his twenties. Yeah believe alcohol poisoning poisoned. We mean probably sure cirrhosis something like that. He gonna do with alcohol died super young mighty. We see what what what deals with him. Headway hague wave junior was born in nineteen forty nine junior remember when we talked about he fell off a mountain and busted his face yeah and hit a a goes a beard because i didn't hear about that. His face was split open from one into the other <hes> accident. They thought it was going to die. Hang junior <hes> hank williams. I stepped onstage. Singers farther songs eight years old junior saying senior songs mighty hal was hank senior when he died he was twenty nine crazy. <hes> them an end to hear the billy joe shaver story billy joe shaver so you're playing like in a bar you're and that's how he got into a museum to poll. Here's a kid and so hank senior and was like i gotta do this yeah and so he did. You said you saw <hes> lukas nelson on south west. I read an article article about him on south west on the south magazine yeah and they asked him what made him out of everything that his dad did like what made him love music. He said his dad. I would go would take him to shows but he said he loved watching what the crowd how. The crowd reacted to one note. You know what the power of music did to those people people say he fell in love automatically so it's cool to see girls like what everyone goes. I wonder if parents want their kids to be artists. I know for the most part no. I never asked a lot of ours that question. It's just weird profession. It's there's no success in it. It's it's a thousand to one even if you have a famous parent or sibling or uncle. You're always going to be compared to them. You know i would say almost all artists that yeah i know. I've told her kids this. You'd probably i don't want you to do something else like if you wanna do it. I'm not gonna stop you from doing it but i would like you to be something with more stable because you know if they have money they're able to put them to nice schools or don't want him to yeah. Most artists that i know of told would not recommend their kids do it if they want to do it. That's fine yeah but they're not going to push them to not pursuing. We know br back over to you. Can you name another artist that we have that has a famous man. I don't know that i have another one off the top of my head the four four or five other ones that have a pretty older artists now. There's one there's still there's still one really current country artists super current really walk walk into it and walk into it. We've had we've had both of them on the show in the past six months not together. They've come in as as guests at different times as you got this on bread. I know you do i'll give you another hint is opening for the sun right now on tour o. redskins thomas rhett there you go there. You go so oh here we go. Reckons and thomas rhett begins cedeno so thomas rhett was born about dasa. Georgia grew up in nashville. He is the son of red akins and grew up knowing other singers like tim brooks and dunn as a kid to yarn. I talk about this in two years. I've done pockets of both in that and they're both gray. The red one was big for us. It got ed tha tun so i want you to check those out after this one after learning to play drums read later went on stage and sort of plan with his dad so that's a good one <hes> let's do elvis and elvis daughter was <hes> very same store dimona address. She did not do a lot not very well well. No i can't do very famous but <hes> she's the only child of elvis and priscilla presley as well as the sole heir to her father's estate she. She has developed a career in music. Business is issued three albums. I don't know any of the songs she's done. I'm trying to see if i know she's been married and divorced four times including michael jackson and nicholas cage wow i forgot about that which one <hes> nicholas cage. I remember the michael jackson. That was huge. I think that's how we all knew who she right. In nineteen ninety three hundred twentieth birthday she inherited the estate which grown to over one hundred million dollars in two thousand four. She sold eighty five percent of her father's estate. Yeah i guess i don't know i really as a musician. I know she's tried but that's one one of those that even with the name wasn't able to do it okay brent. I'm gonna play this one. You tell me i if you can just name the artist. You bought it to wilson phillips wilson phillips now. How does this fall into this this episode okay so brian wilson's daughter carney wilson isn't wilson phillips good job. It's so corny. Wilson is the daughter of brian wilson of the beach boys and she cofounded wilson phillips. They're younger sister. Who by the way is another wilson. Oh she she's also brian's and china phillips so as to wilson phillips wow and they were in their teens they released two albums and i did miss america judgments america with corny wilson instagram super nice but i could not everyone look at her. I went to no purpose some disembodied <music> stuck in your head. I would just thinking every time i'd be like carney. I'm so sorry and she was like yeah. You should be just fine shooter jennings waylon jennings ice. I think just produced the record from tenure tucker wright. Was that shooter jennings that produce that with <hes>. I don't know i have mighty look that up because go ahead my d brady carliner shooter jennings producer record. Oh wow very nice job. I don't know got a lot of info in that year's marilyn manson he was christened. Summarily mentioned record <hes>. Oh look at that very diverse shooter jennings born may nineteenth nineteen seventy nine. I mean i knew shoot already from. We used to do emmy television asian. You'd come in a lot. He come in a lot <hes> we'd see him have a sunglasses on fire an emmy television brett is a regional it's eddie and i met with TV together and it was a regional texas show and we did a whole shooter jennings special a whole live concert a concert. We kind of put it all together and broadcast but i oh i never met him probably five times but i never got to know him he wasn't he didn't talk very much either so i don't know what he's like. Kinda scared of them honestly look. He may not be okay. How about which one of the beatles had son did music okay <hes> john and sean hey sean julian did more really it sounds just like his dad just like his dad more than shawna's julian lennon is an english musician photographer son of john lennon and cynthia and julia was the direct inspiration for three beatles songs lose loosen this guy with hey jude julian billion by paul mccartney and good night his parents divorced in nineteen sixty eight julian lennon inspired one of his father's most famous songs lucy and this guy diamond whose lyrics describe a picture of a boy that picture that he had drawn a watercolor painting of his friend lucy o'donnell <hes> lucy in the sky with diamonds is a picture picture of his son had painted with finger paints girl and lucy yeah but i love how the media took that one and was like is LSD right. How about hi this one. Do you know who this is brent. I'm mike d good job on the ACA eddie and i went as halloween and there's a white guy in the song and there's a hispanic banning mexican singing right now. No i think i'm stopped at julio iglesias. Okay i was willie nelson. Eddy was julio iglesias matters relating. I believe that in his son is come on brent enrica hero good when i told mike earlier i think that's a good one <hes> iglesias born in madrid spain <hes>. He's not mexican my bed. It's spanish uh mexico's. I'm mexican american and growing up anyone who spokesman is like yeah. There's people member mexicans bilal most which means let's dance right yeah. Iglesias means church in riquet glitziest began his career with the name enrico martinez because they don't want to be known as julio iglesias man he didn't. He didn't wanna dad know about his plans to be in music and he didn't want the name to help him advance his career so he borrowed money from his family. Nanny record a demo which consisted of a spanish to english songs fun fact about an reggae song costa nada m lovey mutant. That's not the original version really. The original version is custom not effing you really really and they made a radio edit. I remember you talking about this blown away. When i played at the first of all my god because it's almost uh-huh weird to whenever he is the songs like from coast to coast in say about them. I've got so much comic. He goes and they know it may be rude but tonight. I'm in new and i'm like does he sing that live that version live. I don't think okay it's too much. I don't i mean just a right that how the much might yeah the i felt. It was like who would say yeah. No one no no no real-life. No one would ever do that now and finally i. I can't think of any more you'll be like talk crap. Oh gosh there's a lot of them. Uh-huh bob and all his sons bob marley ziggy marley his most famous music son all of them do a lot of them do oh yeah damian stephen even ziggy as leader of the band ziggy marley and the melody makers and the son of bob marley and rita marley and so again he has a lot of signs that music would be the there's a lot of kids yeah the different women i was listening to an episode of disgrace land but by marley did you hear that i haven't heard that bob marley and if people would go out of these stations and like the bahamas and like hope have a gun and make them really yeah. I guess that different rules very best. Don't worry what do you mean man. God god so <hes> yeah. That's a that's a fun little topic. There and i think we're going to do in a later. Episode brent's here and we're gonna record. I think sometimes sometimes people like to hear the back behind scenes of radio and brent against the program director for two radio stations <hes> country stations in bakersfield california so we'll do a podcast about what it's like behind the scenes for radio program director yeah that'd be <hes> that'd be and said the inspiration this whole podcast was me wanting to talk to aubrey sellers and coming up it just now. Are we gonna do a spot quick. Break quick break yup and on the other side of break. We'll talk with one of my favorite artists. Resellers august eighth national interview day for express employment professionals apply now if you want better job visit expresspros dot com slash rush interview day if you're ready for the next career get to know express register for national interview day learn more about jobs in customer service administrative support. We're not accounting sales. In more express also has jobs and maintenance logistics and manufacturing each week express has thousands of open positions with competitive edited paid visit expresspros dot com slash interview day to get started and for advice on how to ace that interview search job genius on youtube each express employment appointment professional's office is locally owned and operated in never charges a job seeker feet express. You don't have to go it alone. In your job. Search let express open the door for you to your next job. Join express for national interview day on august eighth and let the team at express help you find a great job. Expresspros dot com slash interview day. Finding a job is about who oh you know. It's no express it's fantasy football draft season. The fantasy football weekly podcast is here to make sure dominate your draft soul thoroughly you leave your hornets hornets reconsidering their life choices particularly playing fantasy football against you. Fantasy football weekly is the world's longest running fantasy sports show and it's now the podcast that crushes pushes your league with deep dive data and unique insights every weekend. The fantasy football weekly crew grinds up analytics for every matchup for every player. The results is a breakdown freaked out of every game fantasy style. We don't care which team will win. On sunday we care about which players will help you win our letter grades for every fantasy player. Make it easy to solve those pseudo. I start conundrums blasted the toughest questions facing fantasy owners ama- help you unearth tomorrow's deep sleeper players today fantasy football weekly's your conduit to draft iraq day domination and we'll keep the winds coming all year every weekend you can find fantasy football weekly on apple podcast on the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts gas aubrey hello there she is. How are you aubrey good. How are you where are you right now. I'm in my car in. LA but i'm not driving yeah because they'll bust you quick in california for driving with like here here in nashville. We just started the hands free so it kinda doesn't matter like sometimes i still hold it in my hand but if you do it yeah they just this past like two months ago. Wow it's it's changed so much aubrey since you left yeah. It's completely different city. I've been no. I've been meaning to get you on for a couple of reasons reason number one and i told my d i said hey i want to get aubrey on because you know i'm a big fan of yours right. I tell that every time i see i'm like i'm your biggest fan and then you've been putting out some new stuff and i was like man. I want to talk about these songs. So why don't we start with that. I and i wanna play this song that with steve earle my love will not change wanna play a clip of it. I don't know if you'll be able to hear this but i'm gonna play a clip so we'll come right back to and aubrey. Can you hear yourself okay no. She can't okay so i'm gonna we'll tell you the songs playing right. That was real good. It's called lovell changed by resellers. Tell me about this song right here. So this is the only song near record that i didn't write it. It was actually a bluegrass song. Guy named shawn camp wrote it with billy burnette and you don't have democracy is okay so dull mccurry that are kinda the a quintessential version of it but it's a total bluegrass song so people can go listen and hear the original version and <hes> when i heard i was like i wanna kinda do this. In my own style you know kind of rock it out a little bit and when i <hes> decided to record it i was like fever all like one of my ultimate heros and so i was like i can't hear anyone else i would like sing the song with accept him so i like totally like stock tend to try to figure out kim jong and so it's kind of a dream come true. I like this one out all. She does rock things out like a bit when you put out your last record. It was all electric right. Yeah i was yes. She's like this one. I decided no no you rock everything out. Okay i know of course i do okay yeah i the white hair and all and bluegrass band i he's been rocking for so long so good. Aubrey knows a lot of these old schoolers because she's been around in her whole life right. So how do you get introduced to steve earle and mccurry. How did i what people like steve earle and oh well so funny 'cause my a dad growing up played bluegrass with ricky skaggs so i just knew a lot of those people and obviously my mom listened to a lot of country music and things countries kyu-soo you. I've just exposed to all that from a young age and so i don't really i don't really appreciation for bluegrass in fact if i didn't do the kind of music i do. I at one point in my life wanted to play bluegrass. You know it's it's funny because i think you could have had and you probably have had plenty of opportunities to kind of ride your parents hotels but you you chosen just to go a different angle with that <hes>. I'm assuming that was kind of on purpose. Yeah i mean i felt a lot the pressure to live up to not only like what people expected from migrant things successful but also just you know i think it's still when people hear me they expect expect me sound like my mom or whatever and so i definitely felt like a need to make a distinct stance in the beginning and be like i'm not my parents i you know i may have to larry's because of genetics but like i wanna do it. My way and you know. I even tried to keep people for mentioning it but that's kinda impossible. I kind of gave that up quickly do because sometimes you can look at a picture and you can see you know well. I do when for example eddie eddie like you and your dad. You can probably see your dad at your age and think it looks like you correct now not visual though aubrey. Can you hear you can hear it sound like your like like your voices sound similar for sure our voices. I think i'm really somewhere <hes> but that's the thing too it's like. I can't help that you know it's like i literally had her. DNA but <hes> and i grew up on the road to you know she home schooled me like around her all the time hearing her sing all the time so it was just going to be natural that i found like a little bit vocally but you know musically typically. Obviously it's different so i'm gonna play another song here. This is called drag you down so you will hear silence but we will be nodding our head and listening to the song and our ears because because we don't have the technology for you here as well. Here's a drag you down from resellers aw that's drag you down about this when aubrey three. I heard that oh she did we. We pushed a button. 'cause you can hear it. We're figuring out this podcast gotta go. I tell me about drag you you down. <hes> so draghi down is <hes> kind of like a a song about breaking someone down to your level and they're not being very and pathetic aesthetic. You know i think we can. I think it's kind of when he wrote it like. I don't think the world was as heated as it is right now because i wrote a couple years ago but now i feel like it's really timely finally song because it's like kind of about you know people not seeing eye to eye and antenna that emotion you feel when when you wanna bring someone to your level and kind of have been see things career is and <hes> yeah i read it with a girl named shannon right and she's singing on it and we had a lot of fun with that one so check out those two songs from aubrey. I'm going to tell you i still love. I love this the whole new city blues just so good this so good. I feel the need to like. Take her by the shoulders and look and go. You're so good every time i see her and we don't we all saw each other often but a couple times a year. We'll run into each other somewhere. I think the last time we saw each other was at dirksen show in los angeles <music>. She what's it like being an art an artist living in. LA so i mean i i grew up in nationally now is born and raised there sure so i feel like i was a little bit time for me to try to do something a little different for myself and and kind of get out of my comfort zone and get out of the national level that i've been living thing in my life and and you know act to i cannot hear to kind of pursue that a little bit and i really like it out here. I think like it's good. It's it's good to kind of getting the different mindset in around from different people and and i know everybody says this. It seems like such a stupid thing but the weather but i it makes me happy every day so i'm not having a really good time here really creatively inspiring and it's nice to kind of break out of the nashville show and kind of you know find find something else you you know a fall on instagram and all of your pictures aren't black and white anymore. There's some color ones when they pop up and you're in colorado must be especially chipper mood today. I know it's a little color into my life. I like it but i'm still you know still got. I still have majority light. That's you know that's just like my by well. Everyone out there listening right now you should <hes> she's got a new record coming out in february of twenty twenty in my accurate on that aubrey cracked the seven lucky number sudden while we'll be in line at the local record store demanding. I get my aubrey sellers. Check out the couple of tracks. She has that now my level not change with steve orland drag you down and aubrey appreciate you. You know i'll say for the third time in this <hes> fifteen minute interview. I'm such a big fan and if you ever need anything let me know turmeric yeah there. She has resellers by aubrey. Listen now crook and chase nashville chats with countries hottest trio runaway june. It's backstage reveals heartfelt emotion and a bunch of laughs. They are the real deal. Listen and subscribe at apple podcasts or on the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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On moving some place better (part 11- the role of my hippie phase)

Public Comment

1:09:26 hr | 2 years ago

On moving some place better (part 11- the role of my hippie phase)

"Ladies and gentlemen welcome to another episode of the public comment podcast where I like to chat about philosophy and politics for creative critical and and introspective thinkers yes I do and today I will be chatting with you about the ongoing story of Mike quest for living living someplace that I like living someplace better is through the name of this ongoing series of particular podcasts and blogs to catch you up because this would be part eleven now to catch you upswell talking about in part eleven. I was talking to you about the impact that the beat poets hat on me because <hes> they really changed my entire world and how that influences yes where I ended up geographically. I can't say what it is for everybody in life and what shapes them and how they get shaped. What are their most fundamental influences you for a lot of people it's their parents for others? It's religion we all have our various <hes> sternum of the Mike and have it in a perfect place and my Webcam to trying to do all things at once year different influences different reasons why we do things are out there and sometimes our moves are more staunchly ideological philosophical topical for me. Mike quest for a place to live in life and a place that I that I liked to live that I find enjoyable to live has been of <hes> has been very values based has been very philosophical in and Mike Contemplacion's and in fact of stir the better part of most of my life actually contemplating the subject of living someplace really wonderful and <hes> being encased raced in a geographical surrounding that I find aesthetically very wonderful and pleasing as well as having a place that sort of consists of values that I relate to so I was talking in part ten in the last segment as I had been speaking about how I ended up in South Beach and was going through my mind philosophically in south beach and how being in South beach the South Beach nece sort of plays this role or my notion of the South beach knows places role in the way them's thinking about things and how I slip into this Neil ISM and <hes> fatalism and and this weird view of romantic love that I possessed and then I talked to through how I start developing <hes> sort of an onto logical way really <hes> or psychological logical way establishing sense of identity and that it really starts <hes> with the story of finding an interest in John Travolta <hes> to the B._G.'s. He's a Lantis more sets and <hes> J._D.. Salinger the rolling stones <hes> but then I there is this a drastic stick change of artists that I expose myself to specifically with Charles Bukowski in the be poets leads me to be much more hyper focused on free free verse poetry and the idea of what it means to be a poet and start developing <hes> philosophical aesthetic notions of poetry should be or what writings should be who I should be as as a person so there's a lot of implied philosophy through my interaction with the writers poets that I start to explore and though I didn't think of it at the time as explicit philosophy in hindsight it would come to be so as I look back on it and so I was talking you through in the last video even more specifically then the experience reince of Charles Hausky and the poets and really it's Ginsburg in Carol Wak really changed my mind a little bit more context here though is really important to understand that throughout well my childhood adolescence it's not as if I was really deep explorer of literature it's not as if I was deep explorer of the Arts I was very much more more interested exclusively in movies and screenplays I read the occasional horror novel and I listened to a lot of <hes> B._G.'s music or pop songs and romantic song lyrics and things but I didn't really <hes> go on a quest to become a sort of experts in literature has to be an expert in anything especially as a teenager would have been movies. I didn't know movies. I knew my John Travolta movies. I knew my I knew John Travolta acting career <hes> probably better than I knew anything and I knew I read entertainment weekly every week out subscribe to it. I watched the Academy Awards every year. The Golden Globes I watched <hes> access Hollywood and entertainment tonight every night. I was entrenched in that realm more so of entertainment entertainment then I was of the arts as a senior and only as I started in college really with my <hes> exploration and fascination with KEROUAC and Ginsburg only then is my brain in consciousness suddenly becoming more deeply inundated with a world that was otherwise pretty much a world much outside of conventional pop entertainment pop culture or <hes> mainstream pop culture. I guess you could say and this is really the first son never exposed to do counterculture really it's the counter culture of the rate the sixties <hes> that was really exposed to in my freshman year of college and that's really important to me that my whole life I've never really been exposed to this concept of counterculture or what you need. I mean you see first of all. I wasn't very social as a teenager so it's not as if I was even exposed posed like this variety of what do you call them. Clicks of different people I pretty much kept to myself with the exception of a three really brilliant for really brilliant individuals one of which my wonderful friend Tim Moran the writer Director and actor. I'm sure he wouldn't mind being named otherwise I try to keep those people anonymous as is reasonable so from being someone who's like very much sort of mainstream culture Hollywood entertainment even in my music tastes in the Leyritz or poetry of the music always like the pop rock lyricists or you know eminem or to pop the occasional rapper <hes> some country music but that's it then you know plunging into Allen Ginsberg and Jack Kerouac and his idea of counterculture this this idea of being really rebellious and his idea of <hes> these individuals who share their thoughts on their event disagreements with the conventional standards they consider themselves that they consider sort of imposed on them or expected of them and they sort of went to really wreak the world and this is really the first time unexposed to that kind of thinking that sort of staunchly rebellious again at the atheism of Allen Ginsberg is a really good example even the universe a lack of a better terms the language that comes out of the mouth of mcaliskey and Ginsburg in particular right because Ginsburg especially is talking very frankly and explicitly wizardly about sex homosexual sex heterosexual Saxon is talking very explicitly about drugs hoosen genetics and things that in my sheltered mind are considered like bad. He's talking to bad things and start to wonder. Are they really so bad this guy such an intellectual. Maybe these things that all your life or they are considered bad are actually not so bad gorgeous. He's got that line how I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness and I just never really paid enough attention to that part where he talks about those minds being destroyed then what he meant by that when I was young I would just really I couldn't <hes> fully let the words sink in but that partly says the best minds in my generation that blew my mind this idea of the best minds of Generation Association of a generation and generation of people those people within a generation who are specifically interested and being smart or specifically interested in being revolutionary artists and thinkers and producers and things like that really became this <hes> exciting concept to me and I was really jealous of the friendship between Jack Kerouac and Allen Ginsberg and how they always stories of them sharing their work together and sharing their thoughts and having his really intense friendships and a real part of my psychology than at this point is like wishing that I could find somebody out there that I could have this sort of deep intellectual the relationship with as well you know a if I was a care I wanted to Ginsburg or if I was a Ginsburg I wanted my version of a karaoke and so that's where you know people like Tim ran and few my other friends I often tried to think of them in that that way and began to think of the world like doc on out there in search of the best minds and my generation was how I began to think about things because of Allen Ginsberg and so that means also scouting the best minds of the past generations so that I sort of understand what <hes> you know the kind of people that I would want to be associated with essentially so this is when I grow exposed to also the the other side of the counterculture on a culture because there's the the beat poets none there's the people in music industry who also become very counter culture and poetic and those people include John Lennon Bob Dylan and Jim Morrison are the top three for me. Three people who really are part of this really revolutionary experience of my mind right keeping in mind you know I spent my adolescence a B._G.. Stan the B._G.'s and nickelback or like my top in a lands Moore's at the top examples of lyricists no disrespect to any of those artists but they're not necessarily that they don't rigaud about pushing any envelopes you might say with the exception I think <hes> I think there's something really thrilling about Alanis Morissette Writing Songs that really don't rhyme all the time. I think that's really cool but beyond that <hes> there was nothing thing like extraordinarily on conventional about the artists that I was fascinated with in my pre college youth save save may be Marlon Brando who was sort of rebellious refuse to accept Academy Award and had a native American come and refused the award for him at the Oscars that sort of really only major example so how does this happen anyway I don't. I don't know how it is how it all comes together but I remember my older brother actually saying that if you WanNa poet is probably listen Bob Dylan Jim Morrison so Ma- maybe it somewhere your fault you get a little bit of the blame lean a little bit <hes> and there's you know Simon and Garfunkel and there's this. I don't remember exactly how I get exposed to hippie concept but right. There's also no understanding me and my evolution without understanding my embracing. The hippie concept again not exactly sure when and how that exactly happens I it's it's a outside of my knowledge I know around that timeframe that I sort of went hippie any by the beginning of the freshman year can university grown on my hair for the first time growing a beard and start tie-dying my clothes ironing patches on my clothes things like that my my I must plug in my computer. If you'd be so kind to just bear with me a second year ladies and gentlemen you have to understand <hes> but I should have made this clearer clearer. I Apologize See when I was a kid when I was a teenager and even younger I listen very sort of conventional guy. Ultimately I mean minus might atheism and I super her shyness and I guess my obsessive approach to my artistic interests. I was still a pretty conventional guy by that. I mean at inventing radical say with my hair. I always almost always just got crew cut from at least Oh God I dunno like eleven years old through seventeen <hes> Tim about doubts that my siblings it always cut my hair. I was shaved what I didn't have much shave but you know when when it came time that I must I did and just there was nothing radical about my appearance. I probably dress preppy to the best in my memory. I think I work Khakis and nothing exciting by way of shirt. I didn't really put much thought into my fashion. The first time really made any kind of fashion fashion statement any degree I was probably about sixteen and started wearing Hawaiian shirts kind of like this actually and I sort of had like some of my earliest sort of philosophical ideas were onto the logical ideas and thinking about the kind of person I wanted to be. I found myself as wanting to be someone very festive. Someone wanted to be by the beach right this. This whole theme comes back to the question of you know. Where do I want to live and? The ending the ultimate theme of this series a podcast so I start thinking about that in terms of my style so I start with the Hawaiian shirts and and then I get into the start wearing this necklace like seashell necklace and go on vacation once a year to the road with beach boardwalk and you'd see some people you know where the hemp necklaces and I thought that was very cool pool and the bracelets and so there's a sort of like bitchiness that <hes> style that I become very attracted to and I don't know where I start falling into the whole like Paul Simon Simon and Garfunkel and John Lennon and Bob Dylan Jim Morrison thing and grow exposed to the Hippie thing I just an wrapping than mine around trying to figure out how exactly I got exposed to those <hes> to the hippie thing I just don't remember where but at some point by the between the summer really between the summer a between the summer between graduating high school and starting came in university in my early months can university. I really start embracing this idea of being a Hippie <hes> because I was very attracted to the peace and love mantra as a fundamental principle is the first time I ever really really tried to wrap my mind around ethics by way of some kind of abstract fundamental principle peace and love of his very attracted to that and was very attracted to the sense of freedom that ah so called the savant hippy movement was posted embody and I became very attracted to the music and so yeah at the suggestion of my brother Madison listening to Bob Dylan a start listening to Jim Morrison and I grow interested in musicians around that time period and therefore I started listening also to die say John Lennon's. I'm an Garfunkel and some of the jazz too too because the beat poets are talking about the jazz and I wanna understand then more so I start listening to like my miles Davis and Johnny Coltrane and things like that and this like a persona notions of persona star inundating my mind as I think about these various artists and the one who really starts to influence very heavily at this point is actually not dylan the or Morrison. I really don't get interested in them for very intensely that year at Cain University new New Jersey at eighteen my freshman year it's actually really he Paul Simon and John Lennon they're really really fascinate me with Paul Simon. It's the sense of chilliness that Simon and Garfunkel it's the sense of China's <hes> and I remember the resist heavy girl. Her name was jess mill and I had a sort of crush on her. She dressed like a hippie so maybe it was actually her where I grew really grew exposed to the hippie concept. I don't know <hes> but she was the first time I think I'd ever seen someone dressed like a hippie she. I don't remember exactly what that was. Now like. I'm trying to visualize Israelites her face and I can't see what in her clothes. I'm trying to see what made me say she would be a hippie. I don't know tied I am sure and she worked at one of the dorms at Kent University <hes> the person who sort of like checks the I._D.. Card and let someone in and out and she exposes me a lot to Simon and Garfunkel and I know one of the lyrics that blows my mind at that time that really embrace it's the song long feeling groovy. It was her favorite song and I don't know that song really it was so anti the original Sean and you have to understand that I was really trying to really a major part of the hippie thing for me was like having some experience of self and makeover to didn't want to be the old high school sean who always hated himself and had no self esteem neuro social life no real life <hes> outside side his obsession visit songs so exposed to the Simon and Garfunkel and I just really rat my minor. I very intensely <hes> slowed down. When you move too fast? You got to make the moment last as wow that's so profound so true right so for the first time poetry autry where self expression through that Simon and Garfunkel is actually like serving a real purpose it speaking something I can relate to the visit visit the lyrics to that something about the Lamppost lamppost what you know in love to watch your flowers growing zad it. Let's let's a few in Gervais Ulan Grew Ruby lyrics. Yes slowed down you move too fast. You got to make the moment in the morning last just kicking down the cobblestones look in for fun and feeling groovy. He batted IDA doing groovy others next line <hes> I think she used to cite this on one of her live journals or something but I thought it was such a cool line. Hello Lamppost what Juno and of come to watch your flowers ground ain't got no rams me Dutton Doodoo feeling groovy. I'd like it was so <hes> so a sense of like feeling at peace this and someone who always experienced law depression anxiety and self loathing that was very attracted to me hen. I there was something so innocent about that too. I got no deeds to do no promises to keep I'm Dat bold and drowsy and ready to sleep. Let the morning time drop all its pedals on me life. I love you all as Groovy Amen. I felt this exactly how I felt like. I love you all his groovy and then just the way I wanted to walk around all the time life. I love you all his groovy life. I love you all grew life. I love you all groovy and I wanted to say to everybody. I know now I love you man piece Yo peace and love you. I love you all chill all his groovy. That's just the way I started thick on so I'm inundating myself with Simon and Garfunkel Mr inundating myself with John Lennon John Lennon was exceptionally appealing to because just like <hes> Allen Ginsberg was an atheist and he was staunch and his atheism John Lennon became to me a almost like a god for very brief period time and God by John Lennon this the lyrics blew my mind away because <hes> he was speaking to me but no one else on earth had the courage to say right so he sayings God is a concept by which we measure our pain. I'll say it again. God is a concept by which we measure our pain. I thought yes you are telling the truth. You're speaking to my atheism with such a profound perfect explicitness that whatever it is you're doing for. I need to know you so I begin inundate Nice John Lennon lyrics then he says and I found this to be amazing to he says after he says that little bleep about blurb about God right then he says I don't believe in magic. I don't believe in itching. I don't believe in Bible. I don't believe in Sarah. I don't believe in Hitler. I don't believe in Jesus. I don't believe in Kennedy. I don't believe in in Buddha. I don't believe in mantra I don't believe in Gita. I don't believe in Yoga. I don't believe in kings. I don't believe in Elvis. I don't believe in Zimmerman. I don't believe in Beatles I just I believe in me Yoko in me and that's reality. The dream is over. What can I say? The dream is over yesterday. I was the dream Weaver Banal on reborn. I was the Walrus but now I'm John and so dear friends you just have to carry on the dream is over. I thought Oh my God so a lot. The revolutionary intensity must understand is going through my mind John Lennon with a sort of <hes> as I perceive it philosophical aggressiveness atheism believing in the self itself and expressing oneself really the cow scheme being very open about sexuality and one's imperfections and one sloppiness Dan Ginsberg being high all the time seeming and and cursing and being very sexual and into his atheism and Karaoke wanting to hitchhike America and Karaoke wanting the sense of freedom freedom to explore the world and mind is being inundated by all of this keep in mind. These are all things I'm contemplating not in actual college classes so it's not like I'm free to <music> have these intellectual discussions with the brilliance of a professor sort of help me curie an process all this in a more <hes> conventionally academic way or in a more methodical or I guess I guess the point is that <hes> I did not do all this contemplation with any kind of supplementary contextual instruction from those who are the scholars on these people. This was all stuff. I was just all my free time wrapping my mind or out and trying to glean how to be based on these artists how to be and how to produce art because of them and what that means in terms of what I'm supposed to want in my life then I started doing more explorations. I get really into Percy Shelley. Another atheist and Percy Shelly starts leading me to feel very confused because Percy shelley is a romantic assist and Percy shelley does not speak in sort of blunt <hes> way that mcaliskey you or John Lennon Express themselves Percy Shelley music when soft voices die vibrate sin the memory is very romantic beautiful fall and flowery and eloquence and this is the first time in my life where I'm starting to wrap my mind around <hes> a sense of like a real estate aesthetic conflict conflict and the challenge asking myself whether I want to have sort of more of a romantic approach to the rod around the or or if I want to be more realistic in how it processed the world around me and then this is all happening around my freshman year then that summer I start to wrap my mind a lot around the doors Jim Morrison and Bob Dylan and this shakes me up even more radically and a lot of ways days. I guess we'll start with Bob Dylan. I should begin by saying that aside from maybe John Lennon bought Dylan is probably my my favorite poet say John Lennon and Bob Dylan probably my favorite poets and I like Bernard Foia to do should check out the poetry of Bernard Foy. He's genius a friend of Mine <hes> Bob Dylan. There's so much for me to say about Bob Dylan. I wouldn't wouldn't know where in the world start when I first started listening to Bob Dylan. I thought like this is cool but it didn't immediately <hes> <hes>. I didn't have that special resonance yet. It was like yeah this is chill. I could sing along with it. I appreciate what he's saying but it. I hadn't yet gotten what we call chills. Bob Dylan is one of the few artists out there to give me utter chills. If you check out <hes> public comment dot log my website and you can be my personal essay on the homepage and eyesight to passages from robber musil. That's an example of artwork that gives me the chills speaks so vividly about something so true that at least I could relate to on a very visceral and deep intense level that I got chills <hes> the case this would be the case with Bob Dylan so I will tell you the story it's one that <hes> in my several attempts to right and novel and or write my autobiography or memoir or something I've sort of <hes> gone back to this in my mind with many a time and I remember it pretty well so so at this point it's the summer of or by the summer of two thousand five and I no longer student can university. I will be soon transferring to Florida Gulf. Coast Host University talked about how this would be the first time I ever really do something. I sort of one as a young adult sort of and so that's a little bit of context. I'm still living in my mom's house. It's like a month probably before I'm going going to move to Florida Gulf Coast University in Fort Meyers Florida and I liked to play about Dylan in the background <hes> sometimes I would just go to sleep listening to Bob Dylan I just he was so revered. There was such a you know what I would read up about him. On the internet or hear people talk about Bob. Dylan is always like Oh. He's such a deep poet. He's kind of hard to understand stand. There was a heir to the way people spoke about Bob Dylan and he denied heard the name as a younger person Dylan Israel poet among the song writers. He's that guy you you hear about. All the time never really plunged into so I thought whatever he has I wanted to I wanna be genius like Bob Dylan Right So said if I can't understand it on just listen to them all the time and so I would listen specifically play. Play the blonde on blonde album late at night and I remember there is one particular song to particular songs really gave me the gels one more than any other. Perhaps you know perhaps you don't if you don't check it out sad I lady of alone land I remember laying in bed late in August and hearing Dylan and the way he sang it sad lee low just like that and there's like it's evoking weird thoughts in my mind. One of them is why there's something so genius sounding about this guy another is <hes>. I wonder if he's like mad high on heroin or something I was wondering it. He's got this line. <hes> my warehouse is my are- Byun drums thinking my warehouse is Whoa. I felt like I could relate to that. Ideal having warehouse is as if <hes> you're looking so deeply all over and all around you and taking it in so intensely and that's just who you are and I thought he understood the way that I think or the way that I tried to think and having warehouse is having really expensive consciousness for life better terms and I just got these it's chills and I thought wow whatever needs to make good art. Whatever means right good poetry whatever means to be ever means to achieve aesthetic excellence by wouldn't have known those terms specifically typically at that point my life <hes> but essentially worded another way that's essentially I was thinking I really fell in love at that point with lyrics about Dylan and they're you know some bad consequences actually not his fault per se but some bad consequences would come to that too <hes> so then I go on like a real hyper Dylan <hes> hyper dylan craze obsession specifically with sixties music? I was specifically interested in that. I didn't really get into his blood on the tracks accent desire albums and things like that that's how specifically interested in blonde on blonde and turn remember what other albums really got me. I mean blonde on blog was huge for me bringing it all back home and really this period of time in Bob Dylan's musical career output from around when he goes electric really with <hes> like a rolling stone up through blonde on blonde so like roughly that those three years from like sixty five to sixty eight. I think it is that output of his music. It was like gum I cannot begin to explain to the world that took me to my mind <hes> and the way that made me feel if there is a song along that captured probably the way that I felt through the imagery that he he sings. I think you'll be desolation. Row The lyrics to that one or just amazing just the the on his rates the beginning of the lyrics just to give you an idea of the way that my mind cause. I just felt that he was touching on my youth painting my nerves with words somehow they're selling postcards of the hanging there painting the Passports Brown the beauty parlours filled with sailors. The circus is in town here comes the blind commissioner. They've got him in a trans. One is tied to the tight rope walker the others in his pants and the riot squad the restless they need somewhere to go as lady and I look out tonight from desolation row sex. It's it's a really depressing song <hes> but I you I was still in a deep state of depression at this time like depression anxiety and like all kinds of psychological complexities gone my mind <hes> the end of the song. Yes received your yesterday about time. The door knob broke when you ask me. How I was doing was some kind of joke? All these people that you mentioned yes. I know them. They're quite lame. I had to rearrange their faces and give all another name right now. I can't read too good. Don't send me no more letters no not unless you mail them from desolation row thought like he's got this madness inside his mind as do I essentially and nobody he can relate to me because of the tortured consciousness I have and unless you can relate to this tortured brilliant tragic consciousness that I had bother like that's the attitude that I start to develop and listening to Dylan one and then there's the song sooner or later that's a that's a really sad one. That's long I play a lot and that would become really depressing because it painted how I felt about <hes> the romantic relationship would start read 'cause I'm trying to take you to how to wear. I'm thinking in South Beach and if you understand Eric subduing supposedly son of once songs that I'm citing you begin to understand what's going on in my mind <hes> and with Dylan. There's almost like a kind of arrogance in his tone at times and I wanted to honestly I think I wanted to be Bob Dylan. I think in his song lyrics spike's sing them all the time and think about them all the time. It's like I could escape whoever Sean O'Connor was and be someone I thought it was really cool. I could embody the Bob Dylan nece within me somehow and I tried to adapt tried to take dylan esque attitudes towards things he became as much a- poet to me as a philosopher. I took a lot from it so for example I I didn't mean the treat you so bad. You shouldn't take it so personal. I didn't mean to make you so sad. You just happened to be there. That's all that began to be felt about the relationship I was starting with this girl. I Florida Gulf Coast University. Actually we didn't really get in any fights at that point but <hes> I'd be a Wisconsin paranoid that there would be a fight was very cynical amid until just before as always paranoid that she was wanting to screw other guys and I was only GonNa want us girls net we were lying to ourselves about our capacity to be monogamous with each other and I felt like the sense of misery and depression about it all and I thought I don I thought <hes> this nice girl could never relate late to the sort of <hes> tortured consciousness that I have and that <hes> when he says I didn't mean to treat you so bad. You shouldn't take it so personal. Oh I sort of saw like really depressed melancholy way about myself at times and the ways thinking was like you know not meaning to make your day any darker. Don't take it as such <hes> then he says on. I didn't mean to make you so sad. You just happened to be there. That's all because I was a determinist fatalist. <hes> the essence of our relationships I mean whatever kinds of him emotions evoked though I felt them and very attached to her and Mazovia resolve romantic a nice and all of that to me it was just fate and so this whole you just happen to be there. That's all it to me was like <hes> there's this dichotomy or paradox or docks of there's this flush of intense I love emotions and insecurities and feelings and yet this sort of fail and stick detachment from it and to our conflicting with each other competing with each other but sooner or later one of us must know that you just did what you're supposed to do sooner or later one of us must know that I really he did try to get close to you again. Just this <hes> fatalism about it <hes> that would ever goes wrong in his relationship because 'cause I saw it as doomed because everything in my life as dum dum was probably especially by the time Florida Coco's university and smoking pot at this point like all the time having a lot of paranoia and anxiety. I just stop this overarching <hes> all encompassing onto logical sense of life fundamental dogmatic doom of my consciousness <hes> but whatever whatever's GonNa be is GonNa be it just is sooner or later. One of us must know that you just did what you're supposed to do sooner or later one of us must know that I really did China. Get close to you. <hes> what's the other one. The song is escaping my mind. I wish Rodney my friend. Rod News. Here probably knows better than I do <hes> when he says in another song I don't WanNa be one of your lover Beardsley and <hes> I just WanNa be your lover Baby. I don't WanNA be your boss. Don't say never warned you. When you're trained gets lost another re this me really thinking arrogant like I start to think of myself as like on on the crazy intense wordy poet guy and I'm thinking about these things and experiencing this complex torture you're never gonna be able to relate to doesn't I'm thinking about this distance between this girl and I and the sense of our relationship one aspect of it and unthinking <hes> you probably in my mind thinking there's no way you can keep up with the experiences? I'm having in my mind so don't say I never worn when you're trained. Gets lost is like this arrogance almost that I beginning to it's beginning to heart and in my soul through these dylan lyrics I mean I could go on and on and on about Bob Dylan. I will probably end up doing an entire chain of podcasts exclusively about Bob Dylan and maybe even get some people who are really interested instead in him said join me in that one. There's so much to say about Bob Dylan that I mean this just scratching the surface of the relationship between some other things as lear say and some of the kinds of things beginning to feel now remember this is all having a sort of <hes> fusion with that John Lennon part of me and that Jack Kerouac pardon me and Charles Bukowski pardon me and sad sad to say but that B._G.'s part of me that sort of innocent hopeless romantic sort of corroded. I started viewed B._G.'s as the symbol of young stupid Sean who couldn't do anything and never had any friends and I begin to hate the B._G.'s and really don't listen to them so much and it becomes all about Bob Dylan especially <hes> but then there's also Jim Morrison Jim Morrison's buried different in many ways in terms of his impact on me then Bob Dylan especially because Bob Dylan has had an all enduring impact on that day. I'm still Bob Dole Fan. I still love Bob Dylan. I I still take a lot from his lyrics. I still relate to him in a lot of ways I still think of him as one of the greatest poets of all time even if I don't share a lot of philosophical ideas with Jim Morrison he kinda hit me hard and fast with his influence. It wasn't an enduring thing but when Jim Morrison came into my life he came in and really shaped a major part of who I was <hes> you just can't understand who I was in my life without understanding the people that influenced me and again. It's not this conventional. Oh I learned so much from my father and so much from my grandfather all these things yeah a lot of my friends and family influence may but nothing influence so staunchly these artists and thinkers Jim Morrison is probably the most as probably the most depressing impact on me of virtually virtually any artists that allowed to impact my mind ease up there with Rambo and bottler to the they're also very depressing impacts <hes> Jim Morrison and I would say the first thing to understand with respect to how I perceive Jim Morrison I understood he was well liked by the female gender <hes> and I- I envied that someone who always side was very ugly as a teenager you know you look in the mirror hate with the universe Chris gives you you cry you punch the walls and you lionize Oh uglier would have you and start growing at your hair and wearing a beard and you begin to think I'm challenging the way I used to view myself smoke pop anything you think there's like cleaning out my mind and becoming this new person you're asking yourself. Who is it than them supposed to be? See somebody like Jim. Morrison who all the ladies like so much and you think than whatever is he's doing to be so cool to be so like as a poet to be so liked as a performer as an artist and as a sex symbol well then I must do whatever it is that he's doing right so there are like two aspects of Jim Morrison that really captivate me one is the lyrics to songs and what may or may not be implied from them and then there's also the other aspects set his persona and the way that he performed to because I was very taken by for example the live albums that I had of his and you know when he was sort of talk and between songs and say certain things and say them in certain ways. I watched that interviews. WanNa Watch movies about him and all these things to me. Jim Morrison was the ultimate hippie poet that's how I perceived him. As a Hippie poet and his lyrics Eric's touched on things that I had never heard anyone touch on particular way specifically the song on the end. There's a song that evokes a lot of pain in my soul just the memory of listening to it <hes> I this memory I mean it was a really obsessed with the song and the doors in Jim Morrison and somehow trying to like really experience it and real hippie asssociation spiritual way so this is early in the F._C._c. your days before I had <hes> girlfriend I told you of and this particular girl wants to hang now and so we go back to my dorm and I said you wanNA listen to the doors shore so it just sort of listen and I play the end by the doors and it's the live version and I just lay on the ground play the music really loud and I don't know if I sing along or whatever isn't doing certainly very in trance laying on the ground letting the music take me and she gets very bored. In wants wants to not stay and that would be the end of that <hes> prospective relationship <hes> but the end is about death death was my greatest of off fears remains my greatest of beers and grays level hatreds with the the way the universe appears to be and Jim Morrison Jason is able to embrace death or not sounds afraid of it and and he says some crazy that's crazy song by any stretch of imagination I mean it's it's like obscene. <hes> the end by the doors. It's very it's some it's you have to understand right. Oh smoking hot by the time I was very in depth of Assan right and a lot of times I would get nad high. I was going to I think think of those dying and so death became at the forefront of my mind a lot and that Jim Morrison was addressing the so aggressively was attractive to me is someone I could relate to though I couldn't understand how he could be so apparently seems at times at peace with it. <hes> and you know there's some obscene things where he talks about them wanting to would he talks about him when he says the killer awoke before dawn it put his boots on. He took a face from the ancient gallery and he walked on down the hall. He wanted the room where his sister lived and then he paid a visit to his brother and then he he walked on down the hall and he came to a door and he looked inside father. Yes son I went to kill you mother. I want to this fucking crazy and I don't even I know how I wrapped my mind around that except that I hit swim into my consciousness and I'm just thinking this guy's crazy a little bit and I'm thinking maybe supposed to be crazy. Artists crazy crazy monkey see how this stuff like can mess with your mind. If you're not interpreting really carefully read these lyrics. Come on yeah. Fuck Fuck Fuck. Fuck Fuck. Come on one baby. Fuck me baby yeah. Fuck Fuck. Come on baby. Fuck me. Fuck Fuck. Fuck fuck all right. Fuck Fuck. Kill Kill I._B.. This crazy stuff and this is the end my beautiful friend. This is the end Ni- only friend the end. It hurts to set you free but you'll never follow me. That's one of the most brutally sad things that I ever heard and I thought that explained me really well and I thought that was inevitably my my girlfriend I as I would continue to the song over and over again. I thought <hes> it hurts to set you free but you'll never follow me. I thought there's no way she was going to go into the kind of <hes> consciousness that I was striving for whatever that means the notions of consciousness begin around that year to really take center in terms of my <hes> interests would it means to have a particular kind of consciousness and Jim Morrison learn that Jim Morrison likes to go likes to trip on drugs a lot <hes> he died of heroin overdose so I begin to embrace to the the pot and I smoked Salvia and do my own sort of trip in in that way and sort of captivated dated by Jim Morrison's use of the word fuck and and sort of like trying to say shocking things begin to write really shocking poetry one the most insane things I've ever wrote was <hes> Jesus Aymen's Mike Hawk. I wrote on a y ally. I don't know that was me trying to be Jim Morrison and say that <hes> went to this poetry reading and I was so in Trans by the way Jim Morrison when he would do a show based on the live recordings warnings that I listen to he would like scream allott and you try to be like shamanistic so we go to this poetry reading and I read the most for lack terms of seen poetry that I've read that I could find like what I had just said to you and <hes> <hes> I get interrupted in the Middle Bs ally screaming and I get asked to leave and there there's another code and then I could ask to leave. I don't remember like exactly how the intervention within the reading doing goes but I remember having to actually run out of the Cafe Ed with my girlfriend and another friend of mine and as I'm being a guest taste out I remember screaming something like I want everybody to know that such and such kind of language in such and such words are not permitted here and were being attacked for freedom of speech or something like that really tried to cause a scene really to me. I thought I was putting on some kind of revolutionary. Show then we come back I guess the next week and the owner sits down with me and says you're not invited to speak here again. You're not invited to be here again and asked why and he says no within the twenty four hours I twenty four hours of you being here. The last time I got more calls in for got here before something like that he says and he tries to Jami some kind of diagram of the brain and explain how through my use of obscenity and screaming that it was a neurological fact that I had induced shock and people and I wasn't going to have that said fine and then there's a similar story where we put on this Earth Day festival at Florida Gulf Coast University and I helped organize poetry reading eating aspect of that and I go up and reading this poem about drugs <hes>. I don't remember exactly how it goes in its original form but I remember it. was something like heroin heroines something something something vodka vodka something something something narrow lion narrow on us something something something cocaine cocaine something go like you know is really about drugs in a very little poem that drugs and has I'm reading it it. This is an outdoor poetry readings part of the university's Earth Day festival. They take the Mike for me and explain to me that someone explained to me to the side at the mayor is in town and that I make things look very bad and that this is inappropriate and similar to the stunt. I pull that the other poacher eating I start screaming. Seemingly I'm free. They can't tell me what to say they can't tell them to. Do you know so you see how Jim Morrison in my brain becomes like this <hes> excuse to cause disruptive scenes. I think I understood he actually got arrested for masturbating in public at a concert and to me that's just part of his brilliance. It's not that I ever went that far but that's that spirit that almost like as if there could be an ethos to that <hes> fin aesthetic theory <hes> <hes> mainstream ascetic theory to it I began to embrace that way of thinking and <hes> I became his person who is going to you know once to cause scenes as part of an aesthetic show accompanying whatever kinds of poems I was gonna read and that's how I begin to think about the universe and the thing about myself and then it gets even worse because also sinking my brain into rambault and bottle there and <hes> I will just touch the very beginning of the rim bow and call it an end today because I don't like to go on for more than our really because I know you've you've got something wonderful things else that you need to do a lot of other people out there that I hope that you will learn about other than me <hes> that I want you to see how all these different people are shaping my aesthetic thing in my aunt logical thinking in particular and how this will begin to influence where I see myself in terms of conceptualizing where I wanna be as well as who I wanna be so then there's Rambault I think I was exposed to rim Bo rim. Bill comes up a lot in Bob. Dylan comes up a lobby comes up in dillon song or two and until an interview or two rambault comes up with Jim Morrison interviews rambault comes up in Care Wak Rambos like one of those names that you see by all the people that you love so if all night air artists are <hes> giving Kudos to rebel. I need to know Rambault is so then I'm exposed to all season day in third. Is that what it's called in French the season in hell as it's translated in English. I know I talked to you a little bit about rainbow before in an earlier part of this <hes> but I can't emphasize enough the impact that this hasn't my brain with rim bow. It's a couple of things that's really attracted really attractive at the onset first of all he appears to be someone of incredible influence once goes back to the nineteenth century French really he's my introduction to French poetry and his poems though he writes different kinds of poems he also writes prose poetry. I had never really been exposed to before. <hes> so-called Pope prose poetry and Rambault is considered when you start to read about him. He's considered this like prodigy. A genius poet who writes his best work in like at eighteen years old nineteen early twenties by thirty he's abandoned poetry and he's considered just as crazy genius and he has this also is very tortured soul. He's almost dumb almost as if his concept of genius nece is akin to unbearable hypersensitivity hypersensitivity Furlako better terms. I'M GONNA leave it there. I think it's a good good place to stop it <hes> so just leaving you them with the context context line the sort of like summit up so it's two thousand six at this point it's spring of two thousand six. My brain is plunged and cow skied Ginsburg Cara wack Lennon Simon and Garfunkel Bob Dylan Jim Morrison and Arthur Imbo and each of them has these aspects of Sir philosophical onto logical or <hes> aesthetic ideas that I'm wrapping my mind around and they're not necessarily having like the most positive impact you could imagine on me and this is all extracurricular earlier. This is all stuff you know that I'm wrapping my minor round in almost soul cystic kind of way as opposed to <hes> dissecting them with other people or learning earning about at school. This is in fact what I abandoned. My classes run away from my classes. Don't attend my classes at F._D._U.. Instead I'm reading this stuff and thinking about it and trying to <hes> embodying embrace it and it's in the context of this those start thinking about how I don't WanNa be American anymore anymore. I don't WanNa live in America anymore. Moved England and become a rich and famous poet in England and I'll tell you about that and how rambault and bottle there in fact also sees my brain and influence the person I am at South Beach in this concept I have of the so-called starving artist really or myself as an artist and how I eventually break out of that mold.

Bob Dylan Jim Morrison John Lennon Dylan Israel Bob Dylan Jim Morrison Paul Simon Simon South Beach Garfunkel Mr Florida Gulf Coast University Allen Ginsberg Mike quest Ginsburg Cara Sean O'Connor Bob heroin John Travolta Jack Kerouac Tim Moran Academy Awards B._G.
Is It Rolling, Bob? Talking Dylan: Loudon Wainwright III

Pantheon

40:58 min | 9 months ago

Is It Rolling, Bob? Talking Dylan: Loudon Wainwright III

"WHO's in their vote amount? Of Water election as. The biggest garnered swain here from deeper digs and rock and roll archaeology. Are you registered to vote? I know I am. Headcount is a nonpartisan organization that works with the music and entertainment industry to get fans to vote. Top date or check your voter registration status, go to headcount dot org or you'll find all the information you need to be ready for election day. At Headcount Dot Org, you can also check your registration status because I don't know if you know this, but millions of people get purged from the voter rolls every year. Everyone should check their registration status every year. The. Deadline to register to vote in some states is as early as October fourth. So you want to check before that. You can also request an absentee ballot, get INFO on early voting, finer polling place, and see what's on your ballot. Headcount is a nonpartisan nonprofit that tours with musicians to help concert attendees registered to vote. But you don't need to leave your house to register to get voting Info just head to head Count Dot Org. And I'll see you at the polls. Ya. Rang from new. Dark. Is it rolling Bob? Dylan easier host Lucas hair. He's your host, Kerry shale. But on the Bob Phone from the US survey, he's our guest singer and Songwriter Loudon wainwright the third. So. Long Howdy. Bay Me where I'm bound I can't tell goodbye is too good. A Word Babe. So I'll just say fairly well. I saying you treated me unkind. You should have done better. Hey, I don't mind. She just Kinda. SORTA wasted my precious. Time. Don't think twice. It's all right. So. Why did you choose of all the lyrics of Dylan lyrics in the world? Why? When those particular great lyrics? Well, I knew them off the top of my head and the reason for that is, is that I I recently learned that Song I? I don't know a lot of Bob Dylan songs I mean I. I know you ain't going nowhere and there was a period when I sang it ain't me Bay but but I never learned them and then of a while back now it's six or seven months ago I. Saw version of him singing that song I as you as you can do jumped around on the Internet and saw all kinds of versions of. Including a virtually did with Eric Clapton and. I just became enthralled with the song and so I went to the trouble of actually learning it and I have performed it on a number of occasions. How does it go down when you do Bob Dylan on a year gigs? Down Pretty well, I mean, people are surprised because I. don't really I mean I. Do I do a few covers in my show but I've never. Except for early on I've never done any of Dylan's songs. So people are. Excited when they hear it and then of course. I. I do very well so they like that. I guess he gets the humor out of it. I. Hope So. Will you know can be done dead straight can at that song can be completely straightforwardly heartbroken angrier. There's all sorts of. Because, such a great song. But of course, I'll get this over with when you first started some people critics I guess Kale do as not necessarily done you Bob Dylan maybe a new Bob Dylan. Yeah. I. I'm always quick to point out that I I was the first of the new Bob. Dole? Quickly followed by John, Bryan I think just because I I made my first record year before he made his but At that point Dylan was. Holed up in Woodstock and out of commission and I think labels and the music press and. The general public were desperate for. Some kind of Bob Dylan maybe even a new. What. So if a guy comes along with guitar and plays those songs, I, mean those chords, those five cores that all of us know and play I think that people are quick to label them. As as a new Bob Dylan as it turns out, it was probably a good thing because it helped me record deal but then it got to be a pain in the ASS. Well, I'm sure because you were really a nothing like Bob Dylan like not at all except the fact you had a guitar neither with John Bryan and neither Bruce springsteen no exactly or Steve Forward whose will vote wrote this on talking new Bob Dylan, the sort of talk and blues. Where you referred to you yourself and Springsteen, and pride and forward. Dylan's kid brothers Yeah I. think that's an accurate description I think all of us and so many others were. So influenced by the phenomena of Bob Dylan that We were happy to be his kid brother's but musically Certainly, my songwriting is I think very different than his songwriting the word that springs to mind when I think about his writing is he so cryptic your mysterious and you're never quite sure where you are maybe it's because my dad was a journalist or. I don't know why. But I might my writing my songs anyway are very clear and There's nothing particularly hidden or mysterious about them. You know they kind of have a beginning middle and an end. they're kind of. More conventional than his. So that's the first big difference that I think of when I think of when I compare myself to Bob Dylan I would think also the. Emotionally your songs are very directed in the same way when you when you're dealing with the with the serious stuff which you often do with humor, but that's pretty. Not on the nose by any means but I mean I mean I know that I've seen you in concert and laughed my head off and also wept neither. One of those things happens Bob Dylan concert. You know, I love a good Bob Dylan concert but you you spend all your time thinking and figuring in. Trying to understand what's going on. which is has got its own certainly got its own charms. I mean, did you see him early in the day I I saw him perform live at the Newport folk festival which. For those of your listeners that don't know I mean in its day it's still exists actually a although it's nothing like it. What it was it was it was founded by. This man called George Wean who also started the Newport jazz festival. And it was in the early sixties. It was the happening young person's music, festival. Folk Music for few years anyway was kind of. A booming. Thanks to. Pete, Seeger, Joan Baez and Bob Dylan probably. So I went up to I hitchhiked up to Newport from Westchester New York where I was living with my folks and. You know a sleeping bag and my Martin d twenty, eight and That's the first time. I saw Dylan play at that point he was just was totally acoustic. It was kind of the. The Times, they are a change in kind of a Time Sixty Gabrielle. Yeah. Something like that and but then I actually went back to Newport. And saw him perform when he went electric. Wow that's summer without cooper and you know those guys from the Butterfield and. Yeah. I saw that I was in the on the field when that happened and that was A. Marvelous moments You could feel that the in the throng of all the several because by that time he was such a big deal you know. Thousands of people on this field in Newport and Some people hated it and some people really liked it. and. I'm happy to say that I really liked it. I've never had the chance to ask anyone this firsthand the booing I mean do you think it was because the set was too short? The sound was bad or was it because gun electric? I think probably all of those things I mean the sound was famously bad and I guess it was short but I think the big the the thing that got people certain people upset was that it was such a radical departure. From the kind of times they are changing in, you know Blue Denim shirt, very political dylan this was something totally new and different and a lot of people really did not like it I guess that's more to do with him than with the fact that it was electric is muddy waters a play Newport right before them. Oh Yeah Yeah and the from with that. Well yeah, but muddy waters I don't think I mean he might have been played the Acoustic Guitar War. Denim shirt. Thing all during the and that that audience was made up of White middle-class kits. You really I mean I'm sure there was some black people in the audience, but in nineteen, sixty, three or sixty five, it was all. Young Young White Kids college students so there are densification with Dylan was very strong and again. Some of US loved it, and some of US really care for it at all. If you see the Murray Lerner film, there's a he made a film of the sixty, three, sixty, four, sixty, five appearances by Dylan, and you could seat sixty, three he's. Sort of people fall in love with him and sixty four. It's it's complete full blown love affair. I mean, he loves them I. Think even says something like they call him back for a third encore and he says something like I. Love You guys so non Bob Dylan. When they host the introduction. So you know it means yours that's the year. Yeah. That's the admit he despite that I mean you can feel the love from the audience. It made it really clear to me there when I saw the sixty five concert. It was like he spit in their face. Yeah. But anyway so you you saw him you you loved him. Did he inspire you to get moving on the songwriting front or they're? Not yet I mean I I was so nine, hundred, sixty, five I'm five years younger than Dylan so in nineteen, sixty, five. I was probably just graduating from boarding school. I had just graduated from boarding school. That's when I was about to go to college. Start to study acting wanted to be an actor. So and I I never I played the guitar I know and I sang you know. Some folk songs and a couple of Dylan's songs, but I never thought of myself as a songwriter. I mentioned my father was a journalist, the idea of being a writer just. Terrified me. So I didn't think I'd be a songwriter and I. I didn't write my first until nineteen, sixty eight actually. After I dropped out of college and been a Hippie for awhile in San Francisco. And then on Guitar A- borrowed guitar from a friend. I saw this. I'd sold my guitar for Yoga Lists. And then in nineteen, sixty, eight or something I was staying in Cambridge. Massachusetts in there was a guy there who added guitar I remembered how to play. CFC seven and I wrote my first song. So that was the first time I actually wrote a song and you I know you first album was very well reviewed but then I've been reading also your times. macrobiotic. Yoga Freak. That you you sort of were ambivalent about the success of year. Yeah I album he's. made the first album recorded the first album in nineteen, sixty, nine, it was. It's all voice guitar was for Atlantic records and it did get very good. Reviews and And the like and that was a lot of attention. I mean John Peel at Radio One played the hell out of it boy that helped. And I kind of hit I I I was ambivalent about. Performing I was I think I was scared basically of. Of stepping up and going out there. And I did hide out for a while in a in a macrobiotic study house in Back up there in Massachusetts in Brookline Massachusetts and Until one night I went to see the band perform at An outdoor venue at Harvard University. and. That was so enthralling and. Moving that I decided that I had to go back and. Literally? FACE THE MUSIC MY MUSIC And I went back to New York and started to perform and. How a career I don't suppose did you meet those guys back then or did you did you ever meet those guys later on I met those guys later on I met them probably in the mid seventies when I was living in. Los Angeles I met Dylan first time probably in the early Seventies. For those. Of your listeners who are fanatical about Bob this was an important venue that that he performed at called gaslight. On macdougal Street in Greenwich Village in new. York and next to the gaslight was a famous pub bar called the kettle of fish. First Time I met Bob Dylan. was there. I I don't know if he happened to be in the room or he came to see me for play but. All I remember is just being terrified. To actually be meeting the guy. A lot happened in St US Open? The cafe was wasn't it? That's right. Yeah. There were a lot of rooms around the corner on Bleaker Street was the the bitter end and. A lot of music was going on. In the sixties on those streets. So did you did a Gig as we a headliner at at that particular Gig and and Dylan came to see you and I might have been an opening act and. A few years later I was a was a headliner at. Another kind of legendary room called Max's Kansas City. Yeah. Where're famously Patti Smith was a waitress and Debbie Harry was a waitress in. All kinds of things happened there. This would have been more like the mid seventies then I was headlining. And Dylan came to see me play. he came with Doug Sahm who is no longer with us but who was a very respected Musician from Texas. And they were hanging out and I remember they came up to the dressing room. They both had cowboy hats on. And Bob. Said Yemen I really liked that show I like to did skunk song. Just what you WANNA hear. All the dead skunk had not come out. You know and Dead Skunk A. Again there may be some of your listeners, Jonah what the Hell I'm talking about the dead skunk was my big radio record. So so bob, spotted it early on. That's really interesting that he he had his eye on that. Yeah. Well, and it was just the throw presumably you it as a kind of throwaway amusing song. Yeah. It was I you know I've always had silly novelty songs in my set and that song was. That song is going to be in the first sentence of my obituary. Oh. Yeah. We'll We'll headline where we have you on the on the podcast. Loud dead skunk. This year's. Skanky. But what else did they? Do you remember anything else? Any scraps a memory Smith night of those meeting Dylan That's all I can remember I mean that was a long time. Ago. Those are the two times I actually met him. But they were they are they're. Certainly etched in my memory for sure. But you've also worked I think around that time or maybe a few years later you worked with Bob Johnston in Nashville well, yeah. In nine hundred, the dead skunk record kind of came out in nineteen seventy three. So so it must that must have been what I met Dylan but then in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, four. I went to Nashville and made a record with Bob, Johnson. In five days with A lot of those guys that played on on those great. You know on blonde on blonde and Nashville. Skyline Kenny. buttery was drama and pig harvest was the piano player and Tony? Bill and Reggie young the to your favorite session musicians from Memphis. Yeah. Yeah. All those guys those were the cats that Bob Johnston News that was pretty exciting to make that record into play with those guys. Can you tell us? Of course we're is it rolling Bob and Bob Johnston? The that's the Bob. Anything. Anything about him he was supposed to be an amazing character. I think he wasn't an amazing character. I mean I did I only did the one record with him called attempted moustache I remember Kate mcgarrigle who I was married to. It's time and I, and our son Rufus had just been born. He was down there with us too in. Nashville we stated the Roger Miller King of the Road Motel. Come on. Yano player that singing piano player. In the lounge at the Roger Miller hotel was. Then known Ronnie Mill Sap don't we go? It was quite a heady. Experience but Bob Johnson was A. Very, affable congenial loose. He liked to smoke pot loved drink red wine I remember being trump basically. was five days when he worked, he worked very fast. You know we would do it twice and. We made it incredibly quickly that record because those Nashville guys I mean they get bored after you do it three three times but it was it was quite an experience I, mean the musicians on that record I really actually loved that record Ron Cornelius was on guitar. Right Yeah Great, Guitar Player called. K. C. I played with Jj Kale I. mean. Great. Great Musicians. Fabulous has bob sort of popped. Not Literally popped into your career but I mean it's sort of influenced you as you've gone on or review or did he ever really influence you aside from you know he's great. 'CAUSE officer different. Yeah I. mean he influenced me I mean going back to the first time that I saw. Him. Newport. Very kind of. Momentous. So he I mean again I didn't start writing for a couple more years but I was just to see one guy with a guitar standing up there work in the room which happens to be a cow pasture or something I mean was just very powerful. So that was a huge influence. What happened was when I started my own career and started on my own records in and really start to write my own songs I made a point. Of not listening to Bob Dylan. The new Bob Dylan record would come out and I would not listen to it. I. Think you know I stopped listening probably with John Wesley Harding I, think I just. decided that I couldn't. I shouldn't listen to it. Instead focus on my own work. I think I think the the underside of that or the as the real reason was that was. Threatened by his. Greatness, genius. And It would be too depressing to hear. To hear a lot of him at that point. Were you able to go back to him that time at post? Well, not really I mean not not for a long long time and interestingly enough you know it became a thing people would go did you hear the new Dylan Record? Did you hear infidels with each year? Any. Of those records that were the came out in the eighties and nineties. I would I would say, no because I had I had made a point of not listening I did. I. Didn't go to see him perform until about twenty five years ago. I went with one my probably my best friend, who's also a songwriter. George Gerdes. WHO's a big time? Bob Dylan, Fan and incredibly knowledgeable and Listens to everything that Dylan has done, and we went to see Dylan and Van Morrison play. At. What used to be called the felt forum in New York, it's. It's a small room at Madison Square. Garden think might be called the theater now or something anyway we went and I hadn't seen Dylan perform in more than twenty years and I finally George convinced me to go and I, you know I heard all the things about sometimes he's terrible. Sometimes he's good. Sometimes he says, hello, sometimes he turns his back to the audience. But I went and. Unfortunately. For Bob van opened that show. And Van, who also can be erotic? Yeah. And and techy and You know turn his back to the audience who van killed it. George the coronation carnation. she will yell are equally Al. Stop Stopping go away. Anyway Zan just. Tore it up I mean he was. Powerful and grade, and musical and. Really on the light and then Dylan came. And it was bad. You know it was just. One of those nights where. I in my opinion, he just didn't give shifts. So that kind of cement is my some of my prejudices. This was around the time that you wrote talking new Bob Dylan. Ninety. S. So is not in your mind when he wrote the song out already. Well that was a record call history which Ably was ninety. Three something like that. Yeah. So I don't know. I. Don't know. If, I'd seen him. Before after that I mean I. I. Again I I have the most. Reservoir of respect and admiration and off for him. But I make a little joke in that song I kind of take a shot at self-portrait. But then what happened more recently? Just, last year I went and saw Bob Dylan again for the first time since that time and felt felt forum I I went with my my girlfriend Susan Morrison and we had. Turns out that my accountant is Bob Dylan's account. For. Thrill Mattis. Anyway. So Mareo, got me some tickets. I wouldn't have paid one hundred dollars to go see Bob at the beacon at that point, but we went and saw the show and it was really really. Powerful. First of all, you you walk into the Beacon Theater which I'm sure a lot of people have have been there yet, but it's a majestic kind of large old fashioned big theater on Broadway in New York and. was packed of course, and there you were in a room with Bob Dylan. The just that in itself was just I became like a kid I thought I can't believe I'm in a room with Bob Dylan again. and. Let me sat down and it was a good show and he was into it and Yes. Some of the songs were unrecognisable. The ban was great So that was a very positive experience then I started to. Look at all. Youtube videos, and that's when I came across those versions of. Don't think twice. It's alright. So I guess you could say I'm Kinda fan again that's great I mean he's better live now he was only nineteen in as far as I'm concerned I think sounds like a great show. Yeah he clearly I mean he was very quiet. He didn't say anything he's just played the songs but he he was respectful to the audience which of course, adored adores and continues to do so. I mean you've you've worked with a lot of people who've worked with Dylan lots and lots of them I mean I know your your friend and Associate David Mansfield was on tour with Dylan Yeah. Interesting thing David David played on the rolling thunder tour when he was. I dunno seventeen some. Share. Rubik. David Mansfield at everybody wanted to sleep with. And I did go and see again this was about last year I did see that Martin says the Rolling Thunder tour movie and I had taken a pass on that when it happened in real time back in the seventies because again, I had an embargo on Bob Dylan but I was completely knocked out by that. I mean his singing was just terrific. I thought and that that was that predated the concert at the beacon so. Little earlier but I I started to get interested again. And you speaking of that film I mean you you dueted with Jack Elliott. One of your recent albums did Dylan's name Cama. Off. We talked about Jack and I I mean Jack was one of my biggest heroes in Newport early you know early sixties days I idolized him particularly his guitar playing and but I don't remember if we talked about. Bob. I think that's probably a good thing I. mean he probably gets so sick of people talking about Dylan, visit him. 'cause they were yeah. Well, those guys that played with him and hung with him in that incredible McDougal Bleaker Street period of Jack Elliott Dave Van Rock Eric Anderson Pat. Sky Those were all singer songwriters that I knew they were five years older than me, but they were all kind of. In a way they felt somewhat abused by Dylan I think that's my theory just because the the way that he. At Newport and at forest hills with he went electric I mean, he just left all those other guys in the dust with their acoustic guitars standing there. Then they chased after him and everybody tried to. Folk, rock but. All those folks just didn't know what happened I assumed when you saw him early on sixty three at least we've. Talked to people who've seen him back then and we had one guest who who saw him at the Royal Physical Hall was that in sixty, three, sixty, four, sixty, four. So he but he referred to him as so many people have done as chaplinesque. It's kind of hard to see now. But does that ring any bells like he said he was hilarious as well as heartbreaking end you know deeply serious but he said that he was so funny I remember him being funny. I mean just last week or something we caught the tail end of of don't look back. And they have a clip of him I don't know if it's at the Albert Hall doing that stick about I'll let you be in my dream if you can be in yours and he makes Donovan reference. It's very funny. Cracks the audience up I mean Y- Dylan. Dylan's funny. Gary can be funny. He is funny because he doesn't make any more. He does he writes funny lines but. To me, they're not laugh out loud well, actually, no I I lied because you probably haven't heard the last dylan album heard some of it. I did a little homework. Yeah. Well, did you hear on my own version of you which is my favorite song the one about building a kind of. A perfect person he runs Leon Russell with Saint John The apostle. Now, that's I. think that's pretty good and and we're the first time. I heard it. I laughed out. Loud. He drops a lot of names on this new record I've noticed that you know you got the rolling stones and frank and. Henley and FRY and. Powell and. With this funny stuff I I like the line the. I drive fast cars in eat sast food. I think that's that says it all in? Yeah. Yeah. No there's. There's a lot of really funny I mean I think the early on I think gum I just like the phrase Geez I can't find my knees. Yeah. Grill here. Go my beer down to my knees. So strange look like walking mountain range or whatever that line yeah. Yeah they're designing if you've ever tried if you tried to write in a way like Dylan in that sort of more oblique style. No I haven't I mean I. Against, some of the writing of so much of the writing is so beautiful and and then some of it kind of veers into Doggerel I. Think this is a very funny Do you guys you I'm sure you do you must Christopher guest is the Ellia? Yeah. The filmmaker and he's an old friend of mine I've known him for over forty years. Years ago, the show called the National Lampoon lemmings show. This is before Saturday night live and Chevy. Chase was ended John Belushi and a wonderful actress called Alice Platon and they all did a kind of skits or sketches. It was alive show of a lot of it was music and Chris. Did an amazing impression of. James Taylor but his dylan is absolutely amazing and he I can't. Really. Do My impression of Chris Guests Doing Bob Dylan on the Internet you gotta find this think it might be on a record call radio hour of the national, Lampoon Radio Hour. But Chris Guests Doing Bob. Dole, and the he has the guitar playing down. That's the other thing and. Keyboard plan before they spinal Tampa. So I found this the other day I was Spinal tap originally was a sketch in a rob reiner. Comedy TV special and And I was keyboard player, and then this is before they made the move court and you never sort of struck by bizarre. Gardening Accident Sore explosions are flying on stage yet Christopher guest directed surviving twin not which is on Netflix. Yes. Yes. Your one man show and it's That's that's a fabulous show. It sank. You've got all you know. So many of the great songs the great eat opole struggle. Yeah. It's about my fathers and sons primarily as you said, only started out wanting to be an aperture then he Used to have found another path but in something like surviving twin, you can see that that's never really left. You know I mean I. Yeah. I'm still an actor I get paid to act every once in a while and and I love to do it. Put the guitar down and perform in that. Very, different way. Yeah. I, like I like active when I get a chance to do you know what's an extraordinary thing to me? Is that your voice? Your singing voice as to me gotten better over the years well I, ask. Nobody I mean really Dylan's gotten let's say. It's developed different TOMBA's. But You know it's it's kind of a wreck compared to what it was and yet your seems to have you know all sorts of different levels do this. This is a professional question. Do you drink a lot of water? Are you just lucky or what the Hell's going on? I'm just lucky you know and I am lucky particularly in light of the fact that I smoked cigarettes for many many years. So I've been very fortunate with the singing and I don't know why I mean up to spend the lucky. Because you I mean I do think you voices kind of. Its weirdly underrated people don't talk about it that much. But I I saw you actually a at. Okay. This is gushing fan boy stuff. I'm sorry. But so you at the Union Chapel probably about ten twelve years ago and you did that Acapella. earth and sky. Song call between between that's right and you climbed into the pulpit. Climbed up into the pope and I don't know if you remember that they had this giant pope it on stage. Yeah that you have to like us one story high above the stage and you sang this song acapella which ends with a very high note it was it was impressive. What can I say Bob Dylan couldn't have done that. That makes me so happy but Bob Dylan goodness done. Well, I don't know the exact reasons why Dylan's voice sounds the way it does now put a few people said that that's what cigarettes and alcohol will do I. Guess that's it. But what interests me is listening to your songs like saying you know you listen to some of the same songs on your recovery album know some of those early early songs they sound they. They see your voice better now I, think Yeah that was fun record to make. That's a record that I did with Joe Henry where we took some of the first psalms. Yeah. My I. Don't like my voice on my first couple of records. It's very high and king and. Again I. Think I was terrified at that point in my career but It was fun to make recovery and sing lows very old saw then all songs with a great band move work with Joe Henry did you Couldn't cry change post Johnny Cash's version for you and your head a toll on or not I don't know I sure love Johnny Cash's version of the man that couldn't cry. Talk about getting the humor I mean he it's on at first I rick. Rubin. Record Johnny cash did and it's alive track and he and he gets the audience laughing. Going back to two Dylan on the I don't know how much you you know about his current hoover indeed the you've said you you did a big dropout, but with one of his songs ever that you thought that's actually not very good song. Well. WHO's to say? I mean I. I can. It's it's very easy for me to disparage anybody about anything. God Love Him. Nobody's close I mean is the Muhammad Ali of Singer songwriters. There's no other way to say it for me. I mean And of course, he loves. He's been recording these the American songbook to which is which is interesting and Terrifying at the same time. And that Christmas album oh boy. Okay. There you go. Have you heard the Christmas album I heard some of it. Just before this was before I returned to the fold so. I went in there with my arms mentally crossed and heard some of it. Yeah. I think I think what you said about self portrait was something like an interesting effort where something. Particularly scathing about your. I mean a lot of people absolutely adore it and play it every Christmas. But I only heard recently that he sang a desk for Davis in Latin somebody told me that because I haven't gotten to the end of that CD. I listened to the first couple tracks and I think maybe the first four or five cut being Dylan Fan. But I mean I. It was killing me. We done a Christmas album I haven't done a Christmas album. I have done turns out recently an album of of. Great songs from the Nineteen Twenties and thirties jazz record where I were adjust saying. I'm a vocalist There's a band in New York City called Vince Giordano and the nighthawks. We cut a record last September can be called a that is called. I'd rather lead a band, which is that the title track was written by urging Berlin and the songwriters you know these are the great songwriters of their day and continue to be I think my favorite songwriters frank lesser we do to his songs and Johnny Mercer and Hoagy Carmichael and. Lawrence hard and. That's coming out in October and. That was it was really fun to put aside the persona of Loudon the cookie. Acerbic Sarcastic Loudon wainwright the third misanthropic. What other adjectives can I come up with? Pain in the ass and just be you know put on a pair of headphones and sing with a great bad. That was a lot of fun that sounds great. I. Unfortunately somebody might compared to Bob. Dylan. Again. So I'll be the even newer Bob don't. Yes. The new Bob. Dylan yeah. The oath new Bob Dylan. Any words of wisdom you'd like to to leave us with Ladan about show Biz, songwriting or Bob Dylan. I. Don't have any any words of wisdom for anybody. I will tell you that I dream about Bob Dylan a lot. which is an indication I don't know what it's an indication of, but he is definitely on in under mind. He's the most important person in my drains. Which I think is an indication that. He means a lot to me and I and I'm saying that with a completely I mean it when I say I mean he is just fucking great. Is it rolling Bob Talking Dylan is recorded on Zen caster. STUCK INSIDE IMA. Engineered by Tom Paisley produced by Robin. Digital imaging by Finn Guys Music is by Samhan. Pantheon podcasts the music podcast network. Find US on twitter at. Is it rolling pod? Today medgar evers was buried from the bullet he. They lowered him down as a king. But when the shadowy sun sets on the one, the fired the gun. You'll see by his grave on the stone that remains carve next to his name, his epitaph play. Only? Upon their game. thinking. Burt Lancaster in the Birdman of Alcatraz won't see my bird.

Bob Dylan Dylan Fan Bob Bob Talking Dylan The Times New York City Newport Bob Phone US Bob Johnston bob sort Bob van Loudon wainwright Kerry shale Eric Clapton Bob Dylan. Dole swain
Bob Dylan: About Man and God and Law - Holiday Specialette Part One - Hannukah

Rock N Roll Archaeology

12:23 min | 6 months ago

Bob Dylan: About Man and God and Law - Holiday Specialette Part One - Hannukah

"You've heard the music now. Here's the story from director frank marshall. Hbo's new documentary the bg's how can you mend broken heart. Chronicles the highs and lows of brothers berry maurice and robin gibb and the evolution of the prolific career as the bg's through interviews and never before seen footage discover how they navigated the ever changing music industry and complex dynamics of family and fame. Watch it now on hbo and hbo. Max no You happy holidays. Everybody i'm steven. Daniel aren't enough host and creator. Bob dylan about man and god and law. You know we talk a lot about bob dylan religion on the show but try to avoid pinning a particular set of religious beliefs or practices on dylan himself up non. Stop for one thing. Bob dylan's personal. Life is his in his alone. Speculating about dylan's internal life purpose for the purposes of understanding. His work is reasonable but anything that feels like gossip. Well we try to stay away from pranks and secondly as dylan says in an interview with rolling stone. We heard an episode one. Most of religion is about appearances. What really matters faith blending oneself with the divine deep humble appreciation for life and living the secrets of the innermost heart. these things are ineffable and transcendent. We're lucky if we have even five conversation over the course of our entire lives with another human being that really gets us to the place where our spirit and body meet with the universe. We're guessing the dylan's music gets you to that place if you're listening to this show but does that make bob. Dylan's music religious. We're not sure spiritual profound in affable will. It's all that but religious to coin a phrase. Religion can be something like a four letter word. Let's play with the theme of dylan and religion a little bit in the spirit of the season and see what we find under the tree behind. The minora bob dylan was born to a jewish family. Seems to have engaged with the jewish tradition in varying degrees of seriousness. In-depth over the years and in some sense beyond linear description one can suss. Jewish allegories are echoes or synchronous cities that hover around and within his work. But dylan's also vary deep with christianity. Very deep its core to the music narratives. He loves and that made him. of course. any entered a pretty ferocious public evangelical phase during the late seventies even a superficial listening to his decades of music. Top to bottom cleans martyrdom. Jesus christ blood good samaritans the law and all kinds of other christian religious lauren leanings but it's holiday time and the dilemma is here. What should we get for. Bob dylan during this season of the festivals of lights. Adrenal for his stocking a lot. Gopher a tree. God that's in his heaven and we all want what's his made While it's not the way we roll personally because we don't actually role on shabbat for those keeping score. We're going to give some of all none and both an answer. Firstly happy hannukah and after that spoiler alert hit must be santa. There's a foreign song learned in utah. You know parvanov p gain love have gala may be the most known jewish song and all of the whole wide world. He comes from hebrew and literally means let us rejoice now dylan calls this a foreign song learned in utah. Tongue-in-cheek identity in check as we just learned from tony glover's letters in episode. Seven dylan is no longer a zimmerman in no small part because he was worried about having a jewish name and yet here comes bob hiding in plain sight with a talking blues version of a song that everyone from philip roth to barbara streisand new and dance to with their aunts and uncles and cousins at a wedding and it couldn't be any clearer. That dylan knows this song from the inside. No i'm not jewish. Says the rounder. High woman dylan from way out in utah. And yes dylan says sarcastically. Hovena gila flashing. Louis i am a jew and this yes no maybe jewish. And the ageless question of who are you. We'll funnily enough. It's the essence of the hanukkah story itself. Take us back take us way way. Back two thousand three hundred years ago or so to a time. When the greeks those formative masters of poetry and the arts of war head dominated the ancient near east. Like the america of the age of dylan. Greek culture was the predominant cultural force of a vast empire with vassal states and local governments and far-reaching seemingly unreachable people's all somehow navigating how greek religion government art fashion language literature philosophy and style would influence whatever it was that they called their own when it came to cultural identity like it or not by the tip of a sword or the tip of the tongue. It was all greek to them. The influence was unavoidable in judea. The precursor to what we now call israel a band of tough jews. Call the mac. These who had adopted many greek practices like most of the people of the region are set to have wanted to reassert what might be called their jewish roots despite the undeniable impact of greek culture on their lives in spirit. They wanted to purify the temple in jerusalem which had gone hellen us. They wanted political independence. They wanted uniqueness distinctiveness chosen nece and choice within the empire of the greeks and they were ready to fight with the death for it there. It is and there. It was a never ending jewish story for a people or nation or culture. Whatever you wanna call it constantly wrestling with how jewish to be in context of dominant culture. It's been like that. For thousands of years and dylan's america was no different when he was finding out who he wanted to be who he was chosen to be so like any jewish kid from a mostly not jewish town in a mostly not jewish world. who wanted to change the world. He must have been hard for bob zimmerman to figure out how to present himself authentically without being too much of any one thing or giving too much of himself away while in fact creating a new self or selves to make his mark on the world and this is in a funny kind of way. Dylan's hanukkah gift to us all wrapped up in his not just sarcastic and not just lachrymose and not just cute version of of an akilah to wrestle with cultural and personal identity and purity your name and history and to do so fearlessly in front of the crowd giving up secrets and keeping them to yourself and most importantly to do so with a catchy tune in a great sense of humor. Well that's dylan acting out a microcosmic religious drama in a few throwaway moments of a song heard at every jewish wedding identity. Dylan teaches is a serious game. A serious spin of the drill. It's public and private coded not and with all of that if you take it too seriously if you take yourself or your identity your your own religious chosen to seriously well. Maybe you're missing. The point of what faith is all about all together so whether you'll be rolling on showers with that big lebowski in the sky or not and whether you celebrate anything and all this month happy hanukkah may your light shine and as a great poet one said how von now i'm steven daniel aren't off and this has been our holiday season special. Ed part one. Stay tuned for the christmas special. Ed part do real soon because whether you believe in him or not whether you believe in it or not or whether you like it or not it must be santa. Check out all of our. First season episodes of bob dylan about man and god light. Www dot man. God's law dot com or wherever podcasts are found rate review in share to help this project row. We're proud to be part of the pantheon podcast network. Check out the pantheon podcast holiday special. The whole bunch of our hosts and creators sharing holiday cheered at pantheon. Podcast dot com. Thanks for coming. Keep your lights leeming and see you sing along Oh streaming now on red box on demand experiencing credible rise of legendary blues artists joe bonham masa in qatar man featuring behind the scenes interviews and live concert footage with some of the biggest names in music. String guitar man instantly on your smart tv or favorite device with the red box app today rated. Pg thirteen from paramount pictures.

dylan bob dylan berry maurice hbo utah frank marshall robin gibb parvanov p tony glover Dylan bob Hbo steven barbara streisand philip roth Max Daniel zimmerman lauren hellen
#185: Print the Legend, Pt. 2 - Rolling Thunder Revue: A Bob Dylan Story

The Next Picture Show

51:08 min | 2 years ago

#185: Print the Legend, Pt. 2 - Rolling Thunder Revue: A Bob Dylan Story

"Dick keep the line between the past leads or someone out of the past and intern take station of living through the not through with us <music>. Welcome back to the next picture show a movie The podcast to a classic film in the way. It's shaped her thoughts on a recent release. I'm Scott bias here again. With genitive kiosque Keith ups last week we discussed Nineteen Ninety Eight Velvet Goldmine Todd Hanes fictionalized shadow history of the Glam rock movement this week we're bringing in Rolling Thunder Review. Martin Scorsese's unusual new net flicks docu fiction about Bob Dylan's is traveling musical roadshow through small venues across America in the mid nineteen seventies rolling thunder review is Scorsese second documentary about Bob Dylan following no direction home in two thousand ten the no direction home is nearly three and a half hours scorsese focused focused only on Dylan's career leading up to the moment he went electric disappointing some of the fans in critics who loved him for his protest music and held on the voice of generation for Scorsese. It was a significant moment dylan the artist insisting on blazing his own trail trail despite the demands of a fan base and industry that might have wanted him to continue to walk the line. That's been Scorsese's struggle for fifty years to try to make personal films and a commercial art form that always puts up resistance dylan slippery identity identity is again the focus of rolling thunder review finds crazy and Dylan in a more playful spirit with access to a treasure trove of footage from doings old fashioned traveling roadshow across America in nineteen seventy five seventy six cassese offers plenty of river performances from Dylan and friends like Joan Baez and Joni Mitchell but in true trickster bob fashion he also throws in stories and talking heads that are completely made up including appearances by Tannery eight star Michael Murphy Sharon stone and Bette Midler. 's husband Martin Van Halberg as fictional. Oh filmmaker Stephan Vandort the film doesn't bother to hint at what isn't isn't true. It just prints the legend. Will we back to talk about it after the break in summer teens of fun room came around the inspired Dylan was back a- gathering all his forces the idea was to put a tour. We should be playing twenty thousand seats but instead it wanted only small venues. We really sure open gets a Boston on tash tourism catastrophe. It wasn't a success that if you measure success tres profit the nation was so divided so they embarked on a journey through America Joan Baez Jack Elliott right in the Civic Center Karol Rolling Thunder Review <hes> what do you think of this fairly controversial enterprise certainly conceptually bolt yeah and I like that about it. I don't know that that all the gags land the the way they ought to in some ways but I appreciate that it's kind of keeping with the spirit of the original enterprise which is like let's just be a little reckless and see what happens <hes> and I really enjoyed this as well. I mean the concert footage specially riveting and in some ways I was like it's fate praise but I do feel like the original footage. She is drawing from which was shot for the film Rinaldo and Clara. That is the standout here but I mean there's just one highland after another when it comes to that would you think Jovi. Maybe it works a lot better for me. As a concert film than you know some you know maybe grander statement on either Dylan or the myth around him or just the mythology of musicians more more generally but like he said the concert footage is is really incredible and gave me a greater appreciation for an artist who I admit has often left me fairly cold and I know that that's like not a cool thing to say but you you know I'm saying it's out there on the Internet imprint. I'm you know I can't put that genie back in a bottle so I'm not I'm not a huge dylan fan you know but I certainly understand you know what he has meant to the culture and and respect the way that he has maintained his image and I say that in meaning like evolved his image you know over over the years but this was the first time in maybe not the first time but this is one of the rare times when I found myself really connecting to Bob Dylan musical performances the rest of the film <hes> sort of like documentary like moments of it I would I was saying the the last episode about you know it being a little distracting trying to reconcile what is fact in fiction as your as you're watching it. I found that process a lot more frustrating here here because I don't know that it was handled that elegantly especially especially with the Jack Tanner stuff and the you know teenage Sharon stone and <hes> you know the the con- seat got a little too enamored of itself in those moments and and I it took me out of the film and maybe even kind of angry a little but <hes> but you know it was always followed within a few minutes by some more of this great concert footage so it wasn't a bad viewing experience for me but it was occasionally frustrating one yeah I can understand that it'd be I completely on board with both of you and the actual performance footage here is star is right starting with that that version of Isis is just ridiculous ridiculous. No we'll get it is and it's well shot. I mean this is is not just like crappy like behind the scenes. What is this is really good? Concert film footage like really thoughtfully executed and so all that's really good and I watching I've seen it a couple of times now because I I watched it before came onto Netflix says I wrote this big thing about scorsese's documentaries for the ringer and so there too much of a distance between when I saw it so I saw it again today in fact and I kind of I both did and didn't appreciate the a fictional aspect of more in a way like because I was able to identify this time just what was obviously fictional or <hes> whereas I was. I didn't expect that when I when I saw the first time I was able to kind of appreciate it but also also see that it puts kind of distance between myself and this material I didn't want to distance from you know this moment in <hes> musical history that is that's so exciting <hes> and so did he to have that kind of mythology is in a way that with almost kind of Glib was so great <hes> but at the same time I laughed like Hal at a lot of the stuff I mean all the all the stuff was Stephan van door for it's fun and it's really care care. What's really fun for me is how much dylan himself is enjoying enjoying? It like you never see Dylan. Enjoy being a Oh talking to the camera and that's not really his thing but like he really seems like he is one hundred percent on board with this nonsense and it's it makes sense that he would be I mean this is his chance to just give give himself over completely to fiction to rewrite the mythology around this tour in his career knee he loves it has he has a good time with it so yeah I mean it's also he's. He's well served by because you do get this. You know people talking about how amazing it was in this footage speech yourself also he gets to puncture it a little bit in in ways that kind of make fun of those that would make too big a deal about it <hes> which is kind of <hes> it can't be comfortable position to be in we if you're Bob Dylan to just have your every gesture analyzed for for meaning as being completely right brilliant but but I mean but then you get testimony that is that is pretty honest. I mean you know like Joan. Joan by everything job by says is is <hes> straightforward it forward and that that is a relationship that so fascinating and fraught and it's interesting to hear her perspective on joining that tour because because he had not treated particularly at certain you know what he didn't need her anymore. When uh-huh moving past that phase in his his career that she was discarded rather coldly and when she talks about going on this tour and her expectations for that would be like and how she managed it and was able to get something out of it that was great and then you see her onstage performing and that's that's one to? She looks like she's having a great time so <hes> all that stuff was good. The the short bid the Joni Mitchell was in it was probably my favorite part of the film because I love Joni Mitchell so watching that performance was a highlight your those scenes incredible too and it's also it shows how remarkable she is because you have it's her and Dylan Roger Gwen and just the weight of those ledge of so many legends Plano wants ought to pull your attention in several directions but it's all about her. It's all about this song. It's kind of new song that she's coyotes of all time classic but it's then it's just a a new piece that she still kinda working out and it's amazing yeah I mean that was pretty worked out version. Yeah that's true but it is interesting Sisu to see someone like Dylan just being there in support of that song and also just the contact just like the lyrical content of that song itself and how it reflects upon how she's in this rock world and on this tour that is that is full all of men. Who often have you know sort of predatory intent and that's kind of gets gets to the coyote is is all about and also just the idea of traveling and you know the freeway and it all comes comes through so it's so weird I mean now? The Coyote is I think a song that people know pretty well now from Joni Mitchell but as the film emphasizes at the time it was new and and she was insisting on on playing new material that that was a much different from what she she was doing from what people love or four from the court and spark and blue and those types of types of records yeah that was kind of my favorite part to in fact I think I wrote down when in the movie that appears 'cause I've watched that specific seen probably like five times but that's great I mean as far as the performance is is like I said is great. Knocking on heaven's door is a really good number. What was the one I kept seeing seeing all day and I can't remember it the second now that's that's really good too but I was kind of hurricane stuck in my head when this is over yeah? It's it's really good. I hard rain. The version of hard rain on this is just awesome. I mean it's a real highlight of Dylan's career recordings. I've heard from from the store in and the film obviously but I mean he has a habit now and then of reworking his old songs sometimes rendering them kind of unrecognizable but this is a really smart rethinking of Israeli material and material from from blood on the tracks and desire which similar to to Joni Mitchell material had had not come out yet but I mean Isis was not a song that people going to see this tour with no but you know it's Kinda has an undeniable power if you don't know it definitely and I think that's we're not by the fact that is the first song you here's so it really has to have that kind of impact and there's a lot of significance <hes> references and things that that is making the give the film of certain richness I mean he opens with a with George Melly short originally being one of the founding filmmakers one news associated with with magic and with fantasy and trickery so you kind of kind of sets up the movie that way it's central to his film Hilo as well. Yes that's right of course that's part of Hugo so that's important kind of crimes viewers to kind of get ready for something unexpected in in kind of <hes> illusory so. so much of what's impressive about this film lies in its original footage so there's something perverse about manipulating that original footage and archival material and service of what's a little bit of a troll of you don't making troy into the Sharon stone photos for were on the kiss which was definitely not wearing. I I can't say how much manipulation there is of footage and photographs photographs but there is manipulation happening from Dylan himself just in terms of sort of setting up these things you know and engage in engaging with the those falsehoods in a way that corroborates the fictionalized elements of this that one of the things that so fascinating about the movie is that it really doesn't demarcate what is to enforce like like you could watch this film knowing very little about the a two were and dylan just a casual viewer and just accept everything that happens in the movie is true right. I mean they. There's nothing there's no indication that one part of it is and I'm obviously a bunch people performing you know show the mid seventies like the the pretty much trust what you're seeing there but you used to watching documentary. You think that everything these talking has are saying is true and even if you I mean for me. I don't know if I really when I thought the first time I didn't really sit up on my chair until Jack Tanner comes on and that's pretty relate I mean there's a lot of there's a whole lot of nonsense before that that I should let I kind of accepted by these like well. It seems Kinda weird that Sharon stone isn't this movie but okay and and then it was like Oh okay a lot of this is complete nonsense on since the one that I think is especially sneaky is <hes> the stuff with Jim Gee Annapolis because unlike vandort this fictionalized character Jim J. Annapolis is a is a real person. He's The C._E._O.. Of paramount pictures and he's presented resigned here is sort of the financial mastermind or whatever of of the tour but he had nothing to do with rollings under review you know so like his portions of the movie feel like sort of the the parts you you highlight in a book if you if you want to know what this movie is really getting it you know like the G. Annapolis part and honestly the vandort stuff too. You know a lot of it comes out in those moments of characters that vandort case are not real but a gene opelousas case you know are real person. They're just filling a role. They didn't actually inhabit in history. What what he's saying is seems completely threw that an active Bob Dylan stature this massive amount of support <hes> this crew the these musicians you know traveling venues that are too small for them that you know the getting pretty shaky cuts of the door you know being this massive money losing venture all that seems pretty much like what might have happened or probably the absurdity there's is that someone would really think they could turn a profit on this in the first place or or have have a big moneymaker in the first place him treaty as if it were some sort of <hes> surprise that this inaugural as well as it could have is a pretty funny joke yeah and I think there's a sense here that Scorsese is doing Bob Dylan a service? I mean I you there's just such a that instinct of Dylan's to push everything away push away every bit of mythology and even even truth about about him and keep all that stuff at arm's length and just kind of create and create around him in create fictions fictions and create other things like insecure sese is his almost like a accomplice in this rather than a director easily easily accomplice of sneaky little crime that the Dylan is is committing to the truth Fisher. It's it's interesting to think about you know Scorsese's involvement as director in the film making that he does here because as we've said so much of this footage already existed and you know the talking head interviews are are pretty standard setups and he's not necessarily coaxing performances out of people in the traditional sense but also he is doing all of that. You know it's much more of sort of a directing as masterminding I think than we than we tend to think about directors in traditional narrative films or or even you know concert documentaries where the footage is originally you know so. I don't want to say like this feels like a Lark. I grow Sese because like I think there is some very purposeful stuff happening here but it seems like you said it seems like they're both kind of having fun with with something that's outside of maybe expectations for both of them totally fair to call this movie alaric really because of course Scorsese superfan number one but like the thing thing is like Martin Scorsese is busy like burning through every pile of cash insight for the the Irishman also for net flicks and in the there's been a question question to me and this is something for a little bit in the ringer piece of Scorsese's level of engagement both on a practical level and also just on a personal level. <hes> you know what I ended up concluding that is that these all these documentaries that he's made do tell a story about who he is and what what he cares about in you know he's our personal in their way but if you look at a film like George Harrison living in the material world you're not saying you're not you're not thinking about it the same as you think about goodfellas and you're not going to think about this film at the same way you probably think about the Irishman when it comes out you know I think I think there is this kind of. There's a playful spirit to this movie and in a lightness to it that you may maybe isn't appropriate or maybe is annoying and not successful but but I think Clark is a pretty decent word for it. I don't want down. I WanNa talk about four. Were before we wrap up is which Allen Ginsberg hairstyle is your favorite is it the full beard appeared in the big bushy hair <hes> bushy moustache kind of like the fairly street <hes> you know sort of straight businessman lucky adopts at one point. I don't care what his hair looks like. As long as he's dancing dancing full allowance for in many people have made this observation but todd hanes casting of David Cross as is overwritten much. It's so perfect it's way too. It's too perfect. He was born to play that role so we'll be right back. After this break to talk about the connections between Rolling Thunder Review and Velvet Remiss Funny Bunny leading yeah okay we'll get the point. We didn't have enough masks on tour. We should've had masks where everybody with. Somebody's wearing a mask ask. He's going to tell you the truth when he's not wearing a mask is highly unlikely well. No it's time for connections when we bring these two films together talk about all the things that have in common and I think the first part is in fiction. I mean these are two films that are using fiction to tell us something true I guess and <hes> maybe the opposite or not using fact that tells me fictional now they're just use asked to give a different perspective of what is new and they're they're conceptualized in a pretty radical way that of the to feel I felt goal mine's a lot more committed to successful at doing that with <hes> with rolling thunder under I think we've kind of touched on the ways in which <hes> puncturing the myth and like having some fun with it in turn into a Lark is true to what rolling thunder the tour was all about but I think there's it's a lot more complex at I think a lot more rewarding those games between fast and fiction in Velvet Goldmine <hes>. I don't think as we kind of touched on the last episode I I don't think a factual version that story <hes> tells the truth quite as well. I think the merging factum conviction also allows both films to engage either on a sub textual level or occasionally textual level with the idea of memory in like I'm thinking of the very beginning of rolling thunder where Dylan says like he doesn't. I don't remember anything about it. You know <hes> and then proceeds to participate in a two and a half hour you know and Similarly Velvet Goldmine is you know dealing with memories and recollections selections of an air of a era has since passed and that you know the people who are participating in that era were doing it in such a way you know setting aside all the intoxicants <hes> involved but but we're also doing it in yeah no way that was very wrapped up artificiality and not you know quote unquote true to the experience of of what's <hes> everyone was experienced at that time so the the recollections we get of it are are very specific and filtered and perhaps skewed so I think by you know a shoeing factual historical accuracy both of these films engage with that element of memory of you know when you're looking back every person is going to look back and see something different and these are just kind of getting it that idea through their structure. I guess to talk about Rolling Thunder Review. I mean this happened what forty years ago over forty years ago and <hes> and so of course memories going to be an issue but I think the other thing that implies to is that even if people remember everything perfectly what's really important here like that's the same same thing with Vela golden. What's important is the essence of the thing not the actual tick tock of what actually happened? <hes> that's not important what's important is is a music and the scene in the kind of the feeling of it in enrolling thunder reviewed almost becomes satirical in a way satirical satire of the type of behind the scenes documentaries. That really really aren't GonNa tell you about that are going to give you all these stories with those stories. Don't really tell you anything that that important or dimensional about the bans the acts of they're covering so <hes> so it makes sense and I think with both films it's about trying into think about what the essence of of the artist is in finding a form to match it in you know we talked about a lot about that with Velvet Goldmine which which Hanes hanes does it so brilliantly but but of course this you know rolling thunder review is is so much Bob Dylan type of movie in fact. It's called like the actual title of it is like Rolling Thunder Review a Bob Dylan story by Martin Scorsese brings it even more you know into the land of meal mythology and fiction in in in a way from something that we're supposed to take his documentary truth we should also before the emails started arriving <hes> acknowledged that it is a southerner rescue effort of the movie Rinaldo and Clara which was Dylan's. The Dylan directed film. Were the footage come from comes comes from vote which itself was a fictionalization of that tour. <hes> Dylan played catering Rinaldo his wife who I don't think there's any footage of of Sarah Dylan in this movie at all <hes> play Clara Ronnie Hawkins and running blakely played Bob Bob Dylan quote unquote and Mrs Mrs Dylan. I haven't I own a bootleg of it and I've never actually run to watch it because they're you know the reputation is not or hours. It is two hundred thirty two minutes long <hes> so it is a commitment but it was is <hes> that two discs said is sitting around my office somewhere to watch <hes> someday. It's really hard to find though Keith. It's not that hard to find on Ebay who knows maybe even tried. I really did try for this trysofi piece to to track that movie down. I do it. Call your friend Keith. He's got what collection just before we move on from this topic I Scott you. Briefly noted the full title of Rolling Thunder Review. You and I just wanted to quickly note that there's actually a third title that it's given with those opening opening title card which is conjuring the rolling on review about Dylan's story by Martin Scorsese so the the addition of of that verb conjuring. Injuring underlines even more sort of the you know mythical elements at play here yeah I mean is going to be point where Netflix title card of the Front Film. You're about to see a big pile ons <hes> <hes> mostly a pilot nonsense <hes> because yeah that that <hes> that conjuring definitely <hes> also you signals what you're about to see so the one of the other themes. These are these by the way many of these connections are were made by our listener enrico who had suggested these pairing so I'm going to tick tick him off one by one one of the connections is about musical alter egos and disposable identities which is certainly a part of both of these movies you know they're both billion dollar. Both artists reinvent fit themselves on a on a regular basis <hes> with billiards the artifice was almost you know he would debut new persona on and and trot them out and it would be almost part of a planning is executed in some ways although obviously it was also an artistic expression with with Dylan it just it almost seems like just sort of wherever has head went next in some ways I mean you know there was sort of the conscious split with with protests music and going electric these either being bold old lines in the sand that he's drawing as well so in some ways or not that similar artists but I think in this in this sense eight they have a lot in common. Yeah I found it interesting on a more super appropriately superficial level you know how both films engaged page to fairly light extent but enough that it's psycho semi with <hes> you know the use of of makeup and masks and hostile doing you know as part of crafting a creating an identity and a persona for yourself flake the white face paint that the Dylan wears throughout Rolling Thunder Review <hes> you know we're giving a couple of semi plausible explanations for it and which of those if either is accurate I it it doesn't really matter because the the makeup the the flowered had whatever like that is the persona it doesn't necessarily matter what it means the same way that you know the glitter makeup and the platform arm boots. It doesn't really matter what they mean that it's more the impact they have as heart of this superficial persona creation whatever you wanNA call it and what deeper emotional connection viewers audiences draw from that there is a line common to both films to which is given a mask and he'll tell you the truth which comes from which comes from Oscar Wilde and and <hes> I saw a lot of reviews of rolling thunder quoting as according to as if it were dylan original creation which was kind of fun to see that pop up in Vela Golden WanNA connection. There wasn't thing I would say to about the face paint was again. One of the things about only review is that Bob Bob Dylan embraces the those the nonsense evolving Sharon stone in kiss and then in going in having her take him to see kiss and see them in their makeup thinking that's interesting when that had that really really definitely was not the inspiration I think the inspiration was more children paradise right and <hes> the the the great <hes> French classic but the fact that Dylan does just completely willing to give over to this stupid story story about seeing kissing hanging out with casts and you know didn't Sharon stone and that sort of thing I mean that Kinda tells you something about how much he cares about people knowing the truth of this whole get up same thing with the title of Rolling Thunder under review like you know the multitude of explanations were given for what that means serve the deliberate nose-thumbing at the idea that an explanation is even necessary as in Velvet Goldmine. There's an engagement. The idea that like the act of creation is not necessarily about what it means to the artists it's about what the audience gets from it you know and we see that also play out in the character of Arthur and Velvet Goldmine another theme that it connects these movies is art in commerce because both of these these are about commercial artists these about people who are playing to fans who have fans and have to navigate their careers in relationship to what people expected them with the industry expects to them what critics expect from them fans expect from them and there's a lot of pushback and a lot of tension in that relationship that is reflected in both films and I think it's there's a moment and ruined under review where they point out that Dylan had just performed warmed to huge audiences with the ban for his comeback tour and I you know it's not he no point. Does he say that wasn't a satisfying experience but you could definitely see that something is pushing him in entirely other direction and with this tour as well yeah yeah I mean and also goes back to the scores Scorsese's direction home. That isn't a female of no direction home is Dylan reaching this point where he is supposed to be part of this protest movement. He's supposed to be the voice of generation supposed to be the guy who is playing these acoustic numbers that are oriented kind of fuel the counter culture and he's just not that guy and doesn't want to be that guy and that's just one aspect of his persona that he wants. Let's to shed and wants to move on to another phase of his career and and <hes> you know if that's going to be alienating for people to Josh it right. <hes> that's the way it's GonNa go as far as velvet goldmine goes. I think this is a probably the opportunity to talk about the two managers. <hes> Michael Fees see soul giving way to Eddie Izzard Jerry divine. It's sort of a trope I guess in fame narratives of casting aside you know the person who I believed in you in order to ascend to data next realm of success but the Eddy izard character is presented as more in tune with a commercial potential of the scene than than Sissel is who seems attracted to slade on a much more emotional and potentially physical level you that's an interesting dynamic in that it tells us something about Brian Slade as a as a person as as an artist and somebody who really does have the ambition to be a superstar in is willing willing to give himself over to a manager who is little shadier in more aggressive than the one he had previously the one that he could perhaps trust a little bit more at the same time though he reaches a point with Israel character where in his persona Maxwell deem annoyances time for it to end he's tired of it and it's time to move on and he does something radical to to make that happen which is a stage this assassination yeah and that's that's another sort of unflattering are in detail from from belly and where he did coke up with us a management that that <hes> brought him quite a bit of financial struggles for for a few years there in the seventies as well. I mean another parallel is as you said <hes> sort of shedding that Dylan Bowie or or Dylan's slate or or how are we do shutting artistic persona out of frustration and even if there were the commercial consequences at least short-term <hes> for them in Bowie obviously doesn't disappear doesn't it doesn't stage his own death and doesn't disappear but you know his next step is kind of reinventing stuff as as a as a soul singer and as not what anyone was expecting but you know it worked it worked out as the phase after that in the face after that but but it takes such a tremendous amount of courage and ICONOCLASM in in that you're not reacting to trends you're setting them. You're willing to kind of throw yourself into more uncertainty than most people. Would you know most people are just trying to do you the popular thing and and trying to figure out what it is that people want him can cater to that and that's not really what people like Boeing and Dylan have done one of the thing I wanted to at least close on here with connections is nineteen seventies because is that because well these movies actually take place pretty close to the same time sort of I mean they'll go my early seventies rolling thunder years mid seventies but I think they're both in both cases. You're dealing with cultures that are kind of sorting through what the sixty come next <hes> and not always <hes> you know property sometimes anymore questions answers I think it's significant that to the Scorsese film opens with all the bicentennial celebrations too and end and which is you know obviously all about patriotism and and you know American what would it would it stands for that particular Watergate's playing out in the background too yeah yeah yeah exactly and so so <hes> skepticism skepticism about it too I mean it seems like rolling. Thunder review was wrapped up in a lot of sort of reaction to an idealized version of America in its history. You know the performance on Indian reservation comes immediately to mind you know but I can't remember who says that. I think it's just like a news footage or something of someone saying like I don't care about the bicentennial you know there's definitely a sort of cynicism around the idea <hes> of celebrating American history and this very rah-rah Patriotic Way and rolling thunder review seems at least to some extent to be interested in <hes> dismantling some of the American mythology elegy that <hes> that sprung up during the anniversary. Maybe on Dylan's part two it was about rediscovering the country to this tour by performance in smaller cities in venues and and Parlors Mahjong. I put in pushing a protest song <hes> as well which the hurricane has he done <hes> Sonko George Jackson a couple years earlier which was another protest song but it was something you're sort of inching its way back into making political statements in some ways yeah. I think it was like could be on his terms. It wasn't like right thing where he it was all very organic for him to do all the stuff I mean you you really get a great sense of Dylan. At this time it just Dylan Dylan general is being someone driven by impulse of an spontaneity and and <hes> you know a willie this to explore an in in create on the fly in what better way to do it then than this long wild road show that is conventionally planned to at all where they're just literally hitting the road in in in trailers in in going from town to town and for him getting a sense of where America is that at that point in time yeah I mean I think that's something that for as differences films are when Meena Documentary One b being very consciously artificial recreation <hes> it is sort of a snapshot of where different countries are different points in in their history and I think we had another hour we can talk about now. Both films play with how the Times shape art and vice versa but I think we're probably need to wrap things up right Scott. I think we probably should but the story this is N.. Rolling Thunder Review we don't have two and a half hours to <hes> we had to the south had to cut Ginsburg just <hes> just as Oh yeah well. We talked a little about his dancing in the story doesn't end. I mean that's a nice thing about both of these movies that you know if you want to you can they can take as much investment aspen. Is You WANNA put into them because they're so loaded with references in little Easter eggs and things that things for for fans of these artists Velvet Goldmine is available on d._V._D.. Blu Ray and online via the usual digital rental sites rolling thunder reviews on net flicks wchs we'll be right back with your next picture. Finally it's time to catch each other up on films homes or simulated items. We've seen the interim since our last podcast we call it your next picture show and the hopes it'll put some interesting choices on your radar Keith. What the what in the world is good for you lately? I think interesting optimal word here because I'm film I'm going to recommend it's not what I call caused successful but I think if you found rolling thunder reviews play fat and fiction and <hes> use of the Dylan Mythology <hes> intriguing you should maybe check out the two thousand three fell masculine anonymous. Switches <hes> fascinating bizarre film co written by Bob Dylan and Larry Charles who Seinfeld and that he directed things like Borat and and Bruno and so forth and stars Dylan then as a legendary rock star whose let out of prison to do a benefit concert and certain sort of Dystopia in future version of the United States. It doesn't really make a lot of sense <hes> it's kind of hypnotic Arctic anyway and I'm GonNa read you a handful cast members that are in this <hes> Jeff Bridges John Goodman Penelope Cruz Luke Wilson Angela Bassett <hes> further down. You're GonNa Find Your Val Kilmer Christian Slater and Mickey Works. I guess you know Dylan says do you that'd be in my movie usually usually show up you know it is a meandering not particularly funny comedy but it is like I said it's fascinating and never more in one of the most out saying details is a lot of it's sort of this takeda sort of like <hes> rundown neighborhoods like very kind of overgrown like the production design feels. It feels like it's very production designed vision of Dystopia in future that maybe like could have been shot possibly early in Central America or something and there's a final card all shot in Los Angeles <hes> so it's just parts Los Angeles us. Don't see on film but <HES> I duNno I think people interested in in in curiosities would would do well to check it out. Ah Yes you have always kind of like that steered clear of it just because his reputation is so toxic in some corners but but but the talented involved in kind of the the strangeness of IT Makes Me Think about I've I've made a error and I'm doing. I'm not going all in and recommending this film but I don't think you're going to forget it once. You've seen it Scott. How about you <hes> well? I mean I guess now that we're on the topic of Scorsese documentaries. I should probably <hes> recommend something from this adventure that I had watching all of his nonfiction films me which are quite long by incidentally <hes> some so <hes> you know credit me for that for just the amount of time the sheer amount of time it was sped to get get through some of these movies like voice to Italy it. <hes> you know his personal journey through American film. I mean they're all very good but boy. How do they long <hes> but I kinda wanted? I wanted to recommend something that you could find quite easily on Netflix and that is <hes> George Harrison Jason living in the material world and you know if you're looking for something that is Scorsese is a super active presence in the film. You're not gonNA find it. This is not this is a documentary that you could watch from start to finish and not really think of Scorsese at all and be surprised even that he's in the credits it's not so he's not active in the way that you expect him to be or that. You you're accustomed to be in his fiction films but it's very interesting movie about Y'all giving you a history of the Beatles titles from the Harrison's perspective perspective of someone who is the third person anybody would really think about in the band somebody who wrote all of these songs some of which made the album which that we're hits things like something here comes the Sun John and while my guitar gently weeps <hes> but was not on you know but maybe he'd sneak one or two songs album not but the rest of you just keep in the vault but what's interesting about the movie and what really connects to Scorsese is it. It's about a spiritual seeker sure I mean this is so that connects to the Scorsese that we've seen in the last temptation of Christ's in Kaduna in and <hes> silence you know I in many of other Scorsese's films Catholicism's such so important to his movies and and I think he really gets at the contradictions of of Harrison well of of of a guy who is on this quest for truth in is in in in meaning but at the same time is also you know kind of a womanizer in somebody who hordes money in you know was very much the guy who wrote taxman you know this is like somebody who is full of interesting contradictions and also a great artist is own right. I mean tomorrow. My favorite stretch of the movie is <hes> when they talk about the making of his triple album. All things must pass which is an awesome record and just this explosion of creativity after his time in the Beatles I mean he just had all of these great songs sort of stored up and he got Phil Spector Dr. Who is this film to produce an in? It's just a big album and it's got you know my sweet Lord on it and what's the what is what's the other big hit from that <hes> what is life as featured in the months crazy film goodfellas there you go <hes> so <hes> George Harrison living in the material world. If you're a Beatles fan or George Harrison Fan Eh gives you a complete picture and I think I think there's enough there to tie it to Scorsese and the things that Scorsese's interested in so I had recommended genevieve. Well like you guys. I'm going to recommend a film that I was sort of inspired to remember while doing this pairing and I'm going to take this opportunity recommended film that I was reminded of several times while watching Velvet Goldmine N._F._l.. My Love La which is <hes> John Cameron Mitchell's HEDWIG and the angry three inch the two thousand one film version of the stage musical penned by Mitchell and Stephen Trask <hes> which opened off Broadway the same year the Velvet Goldmine was crashing and burning in theaters starring John Cameron Mitchell as the leader of the Tischler band also takes the loose form of a musical bio pic about a fictional glam-rocker and it plays a similar ideas velvet goldmine about crafting one's own identity within the context of performance art <hes> but it feels a lot more personal unless mythic than Hanes this film <hes> <hes> centering on Hedwig searched for love and acceptance as a person who exists between genders and is constantly processing the trauma of that existence through music and performance it also has some elements of magical realism in some form busting moments that feel like they're kind of part of the same tradition velvet goldmine I'm thinking of the absolutely wonderful wig in a box sequence which I'd suggest pulling up on youtube if you haven't seen it before to get a taste of this film but another reason I wanted to recommend the film in conjunction injunction. This pairing is that so much of it is made up of live performances which Mitchell performed live onset albeit over backing tracks and not live instrumentation but nonetheless at many points hasn't energy similar to that of concert documentary <hes> <hes> that along with its origins a stage show transmuted to a film format links and in my mind a bit too rolling thunder review as well I will say it is it is a significantly tighter film than either the ones we've discussed this week I can get clocking in at a slim ninety two minutes <hes> but suitably big for its subject matter and for its central performance which is very very good <hes> if you haven't seen it before I suggest rectifying that and soon and if you have hey maybe this pairing will inspire you to give it a rewatch. It's available on the criterion channel for subscribers as an easily rentable on most streaming platforms had wiggin the angry inch. You guys like this film right. Oh yeah for sure I it's add on BLU ray as as from criterion as well and they as usual done a nice job with a special features and everything on it you one thing I I was thinking about two hundred ahead Hedvig is it's so weird to me that they that they kind of were produce simultaneously because because the two movies I it in Velvet Goldmine have so much in common but one of the things that kind of struck me when you mentioned it was yeah we were talking about how in Velvet Goldmine Brian slate undergoes different phases is career with different managers and you could almost describe him in one phase as being a lot like Hedvig and then the other phase being like Thomas. The character pie might be somebody who who is who is going to take this authentic thing and popularize it and become a huge star it you know at at the expense <music> of other people in his life of of your Toni Collette Types or your Joan by as types so so all <hes> it all kind of connects up really well and I I saw hedvig world premiere at the the only sundance film festival ever went to and I don't even I don't think I appreciate it enough. At the time I've seen it since over the years and wrote about it for Nicole Cannon and other other places and and the week at the dissolve is yeah. It's great. It's a great movie. It really is music is gone and it has been it. It's IT'S A it's a musical at the stage musical. It's not the music as much different than the music that was created for Velvet Goldmine in <hes> but spiritus spirits there in the catchy catchy numbers share. That's it for this edition of X.. Picture show. We're going to be taking a week off before next set of episodes which will drop July thirtieth an August sixth genevieve. What are we have coming up? Writer director Riley stearns has been quiet since his terrific low key twenty fourteen feature debut faults vow to Professional d program or trying trying to pull a young woman out of a cult but it's possible to look at that film and see the bones of his second feature the new the art of self defense which starts Jesse Eisenberg is a nebe she shy young man whose life changes when he's assaulted on the street attempting to get his dignity back Eisenberg's character character falls into his own form of cult by training with a grimly serious martial arts instructor with accuser specific ideas about masculinity. The screenplay takes a lot of odd unpredictable turns many of which are purely comedic but it's an entirely straight face film about much. She's Mo and men and who feel like they're at war with the infantilized pressures of the world those themes the blend of dark humor and serious business and the idea of cultish leader with an unaccountable sway over societies lost in wandering souls Almeida Sink of David Ventures Fight Club that film don't also addresses masculinity through two men one who sees itself is weak and in need of improvement and one who finds Catharsis in strength and violence will take up the comparison between fight club and the art of self defense on the next episodes of the next picture show in the meantime we'd love to hear are your feedback on this week's discussion Velvet Goldmine Rolling Thunder Review and anything else film related. Let's talk about we want to include your thoughts on future episodes of the show you can leave a short voicemail at seven seven three two three four nine seven three zero or emails at comments comments at next picture show dot net. We may post your response on facebook for discussion or read it on a future episode of the show finally before closing out this episode. We're can we find everyone these days genevieve Kofsky. I am the Deputy T._V.. Editor at Vulture Dot Com and you can find me on twitter at Jena Kofsky Scott Yeah you can find them in twitter. It's at Scott Underscore Tobias and you can find my work in N._p._R.. Variety near times Washington post the ringer and other fine publications also the editor-in-chief of Oscilloscopes musings blog Keith. I you can find me on twitter at K V three thousand. I'm a freelance writer for higher. You can fi find my clips that Keith Phipps Dot com currently and find me in places like New York Times vulture. Oh Gosh Josh colleague on the verge had at a piece there for our own touch Robinson his absences week <hes> about the drama adapted from alien three which and they got mentioned on the show before so I'll be quite about now okay <hes> well in in in Tasha Robinson's dot with us <hes> she could find her twitter at Tosh Robinson and she is the film and T._V.. Editor for the verge you can stay updated on the next picture show by visiting next picture show dot net via twitter next picture pod and via facebook facebook dot com slash next picture show you can also subscribe to our Patriae on and get bonus content at patriarch dot com slash next picture show and if you haven't subscribed to the show on apple podcasts already. Please please consider it apple. PODCAST subscriptions are an important part of getting podcast more prominence more listeners while you're there. We appreciate every rating in review. Every thumbs up helps us find new listeners and keep the show going. Thanks to Dan the snake. Jake's for Chris Assistance producing this podcast the next picture show is proud to be part the film spotting family podcasts. Please tune in next time but to the whole world what does it stub people laughing the song poet who died on the gutter the sound of ground trion in L._A..

Martin Scorsese Bob Bob Dylan Mrs Mrs Dylan dylan Velvet Goldmine John Cameron Mitchell Keith Phipps Dot Scott Underscore Tobias Sharon stone Netflix America George Harrison Jack Tanner Boston Dylan Roger Gwen Joan director genevieve Kofsky Stephan Vandort Martin Van Halberg
Bob Dylan: About Man and God and Law 01 - Salvation

Rock N Roll Archaeology

30:19 min | 10 months ago

Bob Dylan: About Man and God and Law 01 - Salvation

"Villain was he was a revolutionary man, the way that the way that Elvis freed your body Bob freed your mind. This is Bob Dylan. About Ma'am. And God and Law. Blue. When I look out out there when I look into your faces, you know what I see I see a little bit of Elvis in each and every one of you out there limit you. Body. That's right and I have to say there with the Mojo Nixon sings a tune called Elvis is everywhere. It's a tongue-in-cheek deification of the King Elvis who seemed to pop up all over the place in the eighties and nineties he was in people's Dreams tabloid headlines, an impersonator at a wedding or in a television commercial you might remember this is Elvis TV series chasing down his history which was narrated by an Elvis impersonator as if it was Elvis himself speaking, and then what are you know there was elvis buying a slurpee at the seven eleven down the street just a few minutes later. Elvis was a pop culture mythic force documented by buzz seeking journalists and intellectuals alike evidence of the hunger in American culture to meet Gods and angels in dreams and Oracles just like believers would meet the divine long long ago. When I look into your eyes out there Mojo Nixon sang when I look into your faces. You know what? I see I see a little bit of Elvis in each and every one of you out there. Let me tell you well Elvis is everywhere. Today as a force in popular culture as as the baby boomers have aged pop culture. itself has become ever more stratified by demographics and Janelle resin platforms Elvis is no longer everywhere. But Bob Dylan is. At the decidedly non pop age of seventy nine. which is nearly double Elvis's age at death. Dillon has had the number one pop song in the land with murder most foul. Look to the chatter where the wheels of pop culture turn choose almost any point of view biographical, political, religious, literary, musical, philosophical, or historical, and the chances are that it's being used to explain Bob Dylan and his work hundreds of books, thousands of articles, and at ever expanding universe of list-serve websites, magazines, academic courses, and conferences Sing Dylan's loyal chorus of commentary. Edging towards seventh decade on the Public Stage Dylan continues to waive his baton in every direction urging the chorus onward. Even if we know he's not much for choruses. Dylan's work has repercussions not only for those of US still fascinated by his continuing contribution to popular culture but also for anyone who cares about how popular culture shapes the world. have got my back to the sun because the light is too intense. Dylan sings and sugar baby. I can see what everybody in the world is up against. You can't turn back you can't come back sometimes we push too far. One day you'll open up your eyes and you'll see where we are. From more than half a century trying to understand dylan songs has been for many. Like, unfolding the criss crossing lines of a map of the entire world. Well, we're going to take a shot at reading those maps particularly in a moment where the world we thought we knew seems like an charted territory. I'm Steven Daniel Arnav and this is Bob Dylan about man and God and Law a podcast that tells the story of how Bob Dylan sparked a revolution of spirit and why it matters. To open up our eyes to the music of Bob Dylan not only see where we really are. But where we need to go. So welcome to episode one of Bob, Dylan about man and God and Law Salvation to be. On, not to be. That is the question. Now long before the unlikely chart topper murder most foul expounded upon a line from Hamlet Taufer strange comfort to a world jolted by covid nineteen and protests and riots against racism in the Spring of two thousand twenty Bob Dylan was searching for salvation in a limousine hurtling across the British countryside. The year was nineteen, sixty five. Dylan and his posse had taken their places in a dreamlike reflection on the silver screen in a scene imagined in todd. Haynes is two thousand, seven film based on Dylan songs and story. The film is called I'm not there. But. Let's give this context. Some context by nineteen sixty, five dylan had become the most important cultural figure of the twentieth century. This was the period his most concentrated in fierce creative influence in the spin of just fifteen months March nineteen sixty, five to may nineteen, sixty, six, dylan released three of the greatest rock albums of all time. Bringing it all back home highway sixty, one revisited and blonde on blonde. His songwriting and recording were feverishly prolific had taken on ambitious publishing and film projects and took part in an exhausting live tours spanning four continents backed by a crew of road warriors who would later become known as the band. The shows on this tour documented in D. A. Penna Bakers pioneering rock doc don't look back included a first set of Solo Acoustic renditions of epic musical dreamscapes that had shattered the mold of songwriting for pop by the Time Dylan was twenty three. And then a scorching said of angry loud rock intimidated the punks just as those punks were getting their first guitars. In the UK the period that Hanes his film calls upon vividly there were walkouts heckling and even famous shout of Judas in Manchester as reimagined in. I'm not there dylan passes the time on a long ride. The quiet home of a black limo a well-dressed journalist with the patrician accent, stern jaw and diamond cutting stare of a very serious man questions him. As evidenced by penna Baker's film and other footage from the same period. Dylan was frenetic, sarcastic confident, and very funny as he conjured both the destination and the map for a new age of music celebrity, the Rockstar as a seeker of truth and hipster scene maker all at once. This new. Paradigm for the possibilities of Pop Gurus both confounded and excited the press and Dylan played his role. masterfully, journalists sparred with a scruffy haired chain smoking dylan whose press conferences from San Francisco to Paris became spoken word happenings. A flow of questions ranging from the nature of hygiene on the road to the meaning of life would be asked of rockstars for decades to come. And Bob, Dylan. He was inventing them. How many people? Who Labor in the same musical vineyard in which you toil? How many are protests singers that is people who use their music and use the songs to protest the social state in which we live today the matter of war, the matter of crime or whatever it might be how many? Yes. Are there many? There's about. One hundred, thirty, six. Say about one, hundred and thirty six. Are you mean, exactly a hundred and thirty six Thirty, six, hundred, forty, two as the press hounded him for explanations about where he was really at and what was it he wanted Dylan played with them like a cat plays with a mouse cigarette smoke curling to the ceiling and photo bulbs or flashing how for Carl Solomon. I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness starving hysterical naked dragging themselves through the Negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix angel headed hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry Dynamo in the machinery of night who poverty in tatters and hollow. I like any master of any art Bob Dylan has had many teachers. Allen Ginsberg a pop intellectual pioneer whose creative line of American sexuality and spiritualism links back to Walt Whitman once said of Dylan there is a very famous saying among Tibetan Buddhists. If, the student is not better than the teacher. Then, the teacher is a failure. It was Ginsburg symbolically chuckling in a prayer shawl in the background of video for subterranean homesick blues while Dylan per passively tossed away placards imprinted with the key words of the song in a style anticipating mashups of image text and sound nearly two decades before MTV standardized this modus for all media it was also Ginsburg who offered magnanimous praise occasional liner notes and a lot of poetic license as validation of Dylan's gifts even as Ginsberg's own pop intellectual cultural poll slackened while rock and roll's grew. So this is the context. Dylan is a force of nature disrupting popular culture. He's inherited the mantle of provocation from the beats and most prominent figure outside of perhaps Jack Kerouac in Allen Ginsberg. And now, he's in the midst of a tour that cracks open the possibilities for Rockstar. Myth making. The scene and I'm not there brings it all back home. GINSBURG putters up alongside Dylan's limo and Dylan played in an almost perfect impersonation by the actress. Cate Blanchett gets asked the question whose answer will define the spiritual redemptive revolutionary potential for rock and roll meaning that defines the journey of Dylan's entire career as well. Eight o'clock gaining English. Isn't that What's his name poet? Allen Ginsberg. You. Oh my God it is. Freeman. Allen thought I was doing there. I don't think you do have mad. Allen tell them what you said to that reported. The one that asked if you thought that Judas sold out with they're asking you. Said I didn't know perhaps you sold out to God. ME. Well. If you've mission was to see whether. You could do great art on the Jukebox. We benefited profited you said by his words and. With it. So Let now. Now. Let's Let. Oh. My Salvation. See what we can do. Oh he'll the do. Allen Ginsberg man. Later Allen Ginsberg. My Salvation. Two words rise with the choppy syncopation that could suggest either sincerity or jest. But only dylan gets to say. Them. Here. It's an answer embedded in a question divided by four syllables but stretching itself out like the lazy reprise of a song. Maybe hundreds of songs. After Dylan and GINSBURG shake hands goodbye through the window both vehicles still moving the tinkling of kitschy twilight zone music carries out the scene. Some highly like a stone Cherub Ginsburg veers off the road toward the cemetery of all places saying, well, we'll see what we can do like most of Hanes is film this exchange between Bob Dylan and Allen. Ginsberg is a cut and paste dialogue assembled from a Canon of all things. Dylan that now includes vast treasures and a lot of junk. And a lot of junk gifted as treasures for reflection and speculation. Forty or so studio albums a warehouse of live recordings, some released officially and most not scores of interviews, hundreds of books, and then there are the books that Dylan is written including chronicles volume one. There's never been a volume two as well as a universal theorizing using and chatter about what he sings and says means. I'm not as fun sometimes thrilling job of distilling these vast waters of work in legend into concoction of those six actors playing Dylan that come and go like songs from a pint size smack talking Hobo played by ten year old Marcus Carl Franklin to Richard Gere Who's pinnacle scene takes place accompanied by the ban collects Icho and guest singer Jim James in a gorgeous version of Dylan's go into Acapulco performed in a town called riddle Minnesota if the creative concede if I'm not there rests upon a riddle asking what the many faces of Bob Dylan are trying to find then the meeting of Student Dylan and teacher Ginsburg. Offers an answer not only to what Dylan's work has been seeking all these years. But also what animates rock and roll is a cultural force that it was becoming. The answer? My friend is blowing everything up. Yes that's rock and roll, but in the rubble, the fund coupling and decoupling the obsession with sound is the pursuit through music and text and people for the answer to life's purpose through the music. That's the salvation. A CHANGE IS GONNA come stairway to Heaven Two tickets to Paradise Get on your knees boy in all starts and ends in the same place looking for redemption for salvation that only rock and roll can bring you find yourself like being more religious person these that you yourselves religious person these days. Religious Person. Version. Is. Supposedly. Force reposited. Good. Where can you lookin' world. And see that religion has been enforced for positive good. We're working you look at humanity and say humanity has been uplifted by a connection to godly power. Connection Godly power meaning to organized religion. By golly. How're you mean? I can't believe in is I can't look organized. Religion is doing these days and see anything positive as being done local corporation share. It. depends. Would you talk about? Every again, anything of religion you study religion I'm still having at one point you. You, how were serious? You took on Christiane a very serious way. Judaism are very serious way. Where do you? Where are you? Now all that we've been religious religion is is is either something that. Is. Mostly outward appearance. Faith is a different thing but. Know, how many religions are there in the world? Quite a few actually what what is your fate? What do you have faith faith doesn't have a name, it doesn't have a category. It's oblique. So it's unspeakable. We do great. Faith by talking about religion. Bob. Dylan. Has Been Wrestling with the question of salvation ever since he was a twenty year old new arrival to New, York City singing. See that my grave is kept clean in a voice that previewed a cast of musical characters containing multitudes. And all of them were searching for salvation. In the words of Grill Marcus, perhaps the most influential thinker about Dylan outside of Dylan quote in a signal way, he was the folk. And also a prophet. As he sang in Rhode, he was the slave on the auction block the whore chain to her bed. A questioning youth. An old man looking back in sorrow and regret. Dylan search for salvation in his songs as literal mystical playful mundane. Funny. And transcendent. His Revolution. His mission and coercion in the words of Allen Ginsberg is that he brought the pursuit of the ancient. An inextinguishable idea of salvation to the Jukebox to the radio, the record collection, the concert hall, and most importantly perhaps to the imagination of a world where traditional religion had lost its ability to do this for millions and millions of people. Dylan has been the singular figure who exploded cultural possibilities for renewed expression of the thoughts, feelings and rituals traditionally harboured by ancient creeds by gathering the pieces of traditional voices, word sensations, and. Around him and replayed them in songs. This made it possible and in some ways unavoidable. For All rockers who followed him to join in shaping what meaning popular music could glean. Beyond traditional religion. Just like in I'm not there in this podcast and the book were working on alongside of it. We are listening to Dylan songs as a journey through the life and death riddle of Salvation Were hearing his work is a collection of recipes for redemption. The repurposing on the purpose of things, meditations on the possibility of meaning in a world in which the traditional myth and ritual of religion had come to do more to distance people than to bring them together. Without Dylan. We imagine that the world and wonder of the ancients would have remained flat to popular culture. But with Dylan. Rock and roll came to expand, exploit, inspire, and rule an empire defined by a whole new code for ancient ideas, religious ideas, communal and individual rituals that would otherwise have died. Agree. Lean. Ain't Talkin. A song from two thousand and six that will accompany much of this conversation. Captures the theme of Salvation and Dylan's role it with sweet precision. I practice a faith that's been long abandoned. Ain't no altars on this long and Lonesome Road Dylan sings. What's the faith? What does it mean that it has been abandoned? What's an alter? What's the road? In a world where Dogma and ritual of the ancients had fallen. Great questions of purpose took root in Dylan's work and then spread throughout popular music. Ways of making sense of the world that religion had always owned. But for millions of people who inhabited the rock and roll empire could no longer provide. We're suggesting that by the time of his emergence in the early nineteen sixties, the borders of the rock and roll. Empire. Fast Expanse of territory something like the Roman Empire plus the quote unquote new world had already been forming for centuries of Talt in the battles between various conceptions of religious and secular purpose for humanity. For spare you the sociology of religion course but suffice it to say that after the enlightenment of the eighteenth century what will call secular culture began to develop scientific or sensual rejecting religious dogma. It spawned a world of entertainment outside of rituals commanded by the Church or its aristocratic? Allies. People could opt out of religious control by the masses and so much was gained for freedom of expression. And the possibility of self-discovery. Ain't talking. Just Walk and Dylan sinks. I practice a faith that's been long abandoned. A No altars on this long and lonesome road. Now in the annals of the Gospels of Dylan. The stories fans till about him. Dylan. Is often spotted wandering looking for something One version has in peeking into the window, of John Lennon's childhood home. Another finds him searching out the neighborhood where Bruce springsteen lived as a child and includes law enforcement nearly arresting Dylan. Did Not have proper identification at the time and. Like not a few wasted nondescript profiteering stragglers on nondescript streets claim to be none other than Bob, Dylan. In another tale Dylan steps down from his tour bus on a rainy night the hood of his hooded sweatshirt pulled snugly over his head and ducks into a doorway. A couple passes and Dylan head down supposedly witnessed by one of his disciples holds out his hand for change. Maybe, he was reaching out pretending to be a beggar tongue in cheek or hand in. Chico for a thousand and one other reasons why any human being goofs around during a long boring trip on a bus. But as he wants sang in going to Acapulco. Now if someone offers me a joke I, just say, no thanks. I try to tell it like it is and stay away from pranks. After all. Like it or not. And, with endless curiosity and fans and critics to prove it. Whatever Dylan does. People take notice. Chore False embellished, or made up altogether reaching out for salvation at every single stop on his journey is the essence of Bob Dylan's work. Stories like these would have had to have been told whether he meant them to be told or not. The world needed to Dylan figure just when he arrived and made this need abundantly. Clear. If I wasn't Bob Dylan. Bob Dylan one said. I'd probably think that Bob Dylan has a lot of answers myself. Chuck about Musicians you know maybe one thousand are we listening to? Interns what they had to say terms of what they had to save terms just what they're putting forth terms of. The world they're they they're ball Dan the. You know. In terms of In terms of moving he showed us that just because the music was in physical. Did Not mean that it was anti intellect. She had the vision in the town to expand the pop song until to contain the whole world. Invented, a new way pop singer could sow. Broke through the limitations. Of, what recording artists could achieve any change the face of rock and Roll Reverend? Musically, he's not very gifted. You know he's borrowed his voice from old hillbillies. He's got a lot of burrowed things. He's not a great guitar player you know. bended a character to deliver his songs sometimes. They'd care too. You know because you know you can do things with that character you know. It's a mask of sorts. Sometimes, we wish we'd invented that character not. Joni Mitchell. At the death of Boxer Muhammed Ali one of the few pop culture figures in the sixties to have influenced world consciousness at Dylan scale. Dylan wrote. If the measure of greatness is to gladden the heart of every human being on the face of the earth. Then he truly was the greatest. If the measure of the greatest is to open up hearts to meeting and purpose in a medium that would dominate the cultural landscape at the peak of its power. Then Dylan who actually owns a boxing club in L. A. and works out there once in a while is right there in the ring with the champ. I bargained for salvation. They gave me a lethal dose Dylan sings in Nineteen, seventy, four shelter from the storm. Are All people in some way bargaining for salvation? And what happens to that negotiation? When old ways of finding salvation have lost currency that had dominated human consciousness. For centuries. This journey towards salvation is Bob Dylan's story and because of his greatness. And Good Fortune to be the right man at the right time. It's our story to. The early twentieth century sociologist of Religion Max. Weber wrote. Who knows at the end of this tremendous development entirely new prophets will arise. War. There will be a great rebirth of old ideas and ideals. In other words with the collapse of the possibility of traditional religion delivering a path to salvation for so many. The need for deep meaning and purpose didn't die. It just took other forms. And Dylan was the key figure in creating the landscape for those new forms. and New Prophets. Take. SHAPE. In our next episode, we'll get into how all this rock and roll salvation works. Will start with Bob Dylan and the agents. and. Enter a secret rock and roll history of a little number called the Western World it's quest for redemption. It's aligned runs from POMPEII through Shakespeare and Carl young to the Kennedy assassination and Sergeant Pepper's right up to today. This has been episode one of Bob, Dylan about man and God and Law. For show notes, clips, and other good stuff relating to our podcast. Please visit man God law. Dot Com. I'm Steven Daniel off. See you soon.

Student Dylan dylan Bob Dylan Allen Ginsberg Bob teacher Ginsburg King Elvis murder Mojo Nixon Judas US Acapulco Dillon Haynes Cate Blanchett UK Steven Daniel Steven Daniel Arnav Wrestling
Bettye LaVette takes on the Bob Dylan songbook

The Frame

26:01 min | 2 years ago

Bettye LaVette takes on the Bob Dylan songbook

"From the Mon broadcast center at KP C. See this is the frame, I'm John horn unto days show, Emma Thompson was going to star in one of sky dance media's first animated films until the company hired disgraced Pixar executive John Lasseter, then on her first major label release in thirty years are and be legend, Betty Levette reinterprets Bob Dylan, only the first time she met Dylan. He walked right? Pastor. I was so angry at that point has that Robert Dillon any out and Upton man and his basically like see him out that's event and a Dutch singer songwriter on performing for American audiences for the first time all that coming up on the frame. Welcome to the frame. I'm John horn when David Ellison hired Pixar co founder, John Lasseter in January two head Ellison's new sky dance innovation studio. The response was swift organizations such as time's up and women in innovation. Condemned the decision and many sky, dance employees were furious. Pixar and Disney forced Lassiter out of his job as its chief creative officer last June, and that was after female employees alleged Lassiter had groped them and created a frat house like work environment where women were excluded. When Lassiter came to sky dance. The studio was in production on a movie called luck. And among its actors was Emma Thompson, but Thompson left the project soon after Lassiter's hiring, and she detailed her reasons in a letter to sky dance that was published today in the LA times, Mary McNamara's culture columnist and critic at the paper she wrote the story about Thompson's letter and she explained. How the head of sky dance address concerns about Lassiter's hiring back in January David Ellison Sunday, a really long, and it was a little like defiant, Email, basically saying we've talked to John and he understands that some things some things that he has done in the past were not appropriate. He has, you know, been addressing those issues, and it is in his contract that he must behave professionally so nobody should be worried. I mean, the the absurdity of like someone being hired at this level of, you know, oversight overseeing this huge staff, or, you know, I'm sure a lot of money and having his boss having to point out that he is contractually obligated to behave professionally is just I mean, my hair just liked went on fire. It's like they don't understand. This isn't just about the specific instances that women. Have detailed which are bad enough. I'm not saying in any way, but it's about creating an atmosphere in which women were shut out. And just the fact that he would get a job again. So quickly basically sends a message to everyone in Hollywood. Which is like this is not a big deal. You know, it's a blip in the road. So when he comes to sky dance emission the studio is already in development or production on a movie called luck. And one of the voice actors in this film as an actress by the name of Amitav, sin and Thomson recently decides that she wants no part in this movie. So what does Emma Thompson decide that she's going to do and how she's going to make her decision? Well, my understanding is that as soon as Lassiter was hired Emma Thompson contacted her representatives and started talking about I gotta get out of this film. And that she did indeed leave on January twentieth. She withdrew from the film, and then she sent a letter to sky dance explaining why she had withdrawn from the film and asking all the questions that people have been. Asking which is like how you know. Why was the staff I mean, one of the things after Lassiter's hiring? And I don't know if you heard from people at guidance, but I did off the record people were very upset women and men were upset they didn't want to have to deal with this. They didn't know what it said about their company. And so that was one of the questions she raised. It's like, well, why is John Lasseter getting a second chance when no one who's going to be working for him was asked if they wanted to give him a chance, and she and she just lists a long number of questions that his hiring had raised. And finally said she wanted to make this movie she wanted to work with the director. But she just couldn't in good conscience lend her name to it. So she writes a letter that she shares with the LA times, and you publish, and I think this letter will go on to be the Magna Carta or the declaration of independence of the metoo movement. And here's what she writes in one passage. I'm going to quote, sky, dance employees who don't wanna give him John Lasseter. A second chance have to stay and be on. Uncomfortable or lose their jobs. Shouldn't it be John Lasseter who has to lose his job? If the employee's don't wanna give him a second chance there's lots to single out on this. I think that's remarkable. What did you also notice about what Emma Thompson had to say? Well, I just thought the fact that she said that people like me have to take the stand. And if we don't nothing is going to change we can talk about it. We can have tasks force. We can have PSA's, and we should do all that. But Hollywood runs on money and star power. And until the stars that make the money the stars that make the projects run until they're willing to go. I'm not going to do this. You know, I will not work for this, man. Because I believe that this was not a good higher. I believe that this makes too many people uncomfortable that it's too dangerous for too many people. You know, David Ellison isn't taking a chance John Lasseter is not going to sexually. Him. But who knows and who's going to be the first person like, you know, everybody's on eggshells. Anyway, like who's going to be the person that if something happens it's guidance who's going to speak up because it's the women who are targeted. They're not equal to the power of the man. That's the whole point there. There are people who don't feel like they have the kind of voice now, I think that that has changed a little bit. I hope it's changed a lot. And I think that seeing someone like Emma Thomson take this kind of stand and walk away from a project that she was excited about doing sends a really great message to everyone, including her peers, this is another tool in terms of fixing Hollywood is that the people who are in these positions. These A-List people you need to do more than make statements. They need to make statements with their feet. So what happens to a project like luck? We'll somebody else come in and take it over or will the movie fall apart and a lot of people who were going to work lose their jobs. I mean, there's no real easy ending to the store. Is there? No. And that's something that she also addresses in the letter is stars do have that kind of responsibility for a project that they're you know, they are one person. But there is cast and crew and people who may be this is their first big job, and nobody wants to take that away from people. And so I'm sure it was a difficult decision. Because I don't know they haven't announced a replacement. I don't know what female actor would step in to do that. I don't know what their choices are going to be. I don't know what how the director. They've been very quiet. Nobody has been commenting. I, you know, I don't know how the director feels about it. But this was a very big deal for them. This was one of two big animation films that we're going to sort of put scions animation on the map. And this is not a good way to start. Mary McNamara is a culture columnist and critic at the L A times Mary. Thanks so much for coming on the show share, my pleasure. Coming up on the frame RB veteran, Betty Levette finds a soul in Bob Dylan song book. Welcome back to the frame. I'm John horn, Betty Levette released her first recording in nineteen sixty two the very same year that Bob Dylan's debut album came out after a long stop and start career the veteran Aren B singer has been on a roll she's released eight albums since two thousand and three. Her most recent things have changed is composed entirely. A Bob Dylan covers creatively. Reinterpreted by Levette. The song. Harry now is mama. You've been on my mind. The some cut let. Cross roads. Well, the stand, but as for the other covers on things have changed only true. Dylan I'ts will recognize some of the more obscure selections taken from one of Dylan's quieter periods between nineteen seventy nine and nineteen Eighty-nine lovitz producer on the album was Steve Jordan. He played drums on Dylan's nineteen eighty eight album down in the groove. When Levette recently visited our studio. She began by telling me how she navigated Dylan sometimes inscrutable lyrics. You'd be surprised how many people spent millions of dollars on him. And they have no idea what he's talking about. So I wanted to make clearer and then I had to understand them for myself. I wasn't linked to do something and say, the famous notion what that means because I don't know how to feel about it. If I don't know what it means. So there was some like. The tune mom you've been on my mind, which two different things. But whenever they meant something completely different to me. He was talking about a woman that he either is still audience. I went to and convict get or wanted to bid with and didn't couldn't forget. But I was talking about my, mama. And that was such a horrible teenager that works just lent themselves to a Mike rolling up. And so it it each one of them kind of some of the things I knew what he meant. And what he wanted you to know. And some of the things we shared the same meaning on when you were performing these songs in a in a club. You've been doing some very intimate shows and people who think they know these songs and people who think they know what they mean and how they should be performed here. Your interpretations of them. What is the most grad? Defying thing that you hear from them about a new understanding of the song that they're hearing that day in three she it understanding reject it off times. I mean, I'm sure yourself her tunes that you love forever. And somebody else did them you say oh out. I was awful. And I was expecting to get a lot of that. Because his fan base is more or less like a little show ch- at times. I've felt that was going to be like Martin Luther China gets the Catholics Catholic you. Call a church. Some people would call it a cult. You got to follow closely. But I really thought they would they would approach me that way, but I've met absolutely no rejection whatsoever to sing songs. Well, when I tried to get lyrics out that and put emphasis on them where he is so emotionless, he maybe writing about the most dire thing, very, good example. Is it a a we recorded it, and we will going home and went home and this to it. And we came back the next day. And I told Steve Jordan, the producer. I said here home, I an an and they put it on. And I said he skipped with me. And he said skip. And I said yes skip you can skip to this. And he's telling someone go and jump off of the ledge. So as it I'm gonna have to approach this differently. And that's the only one that. I it twice. But what I thought was the only probably I would tell you to go jump off of Lynch's if I. Just drunk. So I immediately thought about Jimmy re they are in Cam gone out my window. Listen to a little bit of it. Amy. And. No, no, no, no, no. You do it almost as if it's an armed be valid, and I think it really kind of changes the way the lyrics land. It's different song. Well, I'm a. But your again, they're just songs and using them the way you sick Nimit. It was certainly easier for me to sound like that. He sounds like Bob till sing them way. They feel right to me when we did times are changing I toll Steve Jordan or camp. I said the main thing I don't want to think about is the record. So anything that you can do take me another way. So I sang it Capella foot them I saw all of them on Capella for them. And then I sung with just a piano. So that they could ill me in arrangement around the way. I was singing how important do you think music that can be used as a protest song is because it seems as if some current artists and some older artists what they're saying about the world. We live in today is really getting people to think clearly about their role in the world and their role in change. I'm wondering if you think Dylan your music kind of fits into. How people can come together and get something done. I think that Dylan's did. But I try very hard not to make my music political. If you talk to me, I'm political. No. So I can just keep the music fewer. But I think that during the time that Dylan did his heaviest recording. I'm in we were in a different kind of turmoil than we are. Now, I think that if I recorded some now for political reasons would be much more tourists than Chang Chang. Shane. Shame. Now, we're talking with Betty Levette about her album. Things have changed. I'm gonna ask you about. What's happened in the music business since you came back? We have the advent of Napster which led to streaming the way that artists are paid way. The labels represent them has changed fundamentally in the last dozen years or so what part of the change is most frustrating to you. And are there some of the changes that you actually think are good for people discovering your music? Well, were in is is the dilemma with my feelings because just the technology in the many ways to reach music now has he'll me particularly because the thing that hurt moats out early on just shit. If you can get it to everybody. Then it's that's that's what the whole thing is about. And that's what cost money. So this is first time that this many people have heard me, I don't like the fact that people can't sit at home their basement and make recordings that sell millions of pieces. I don't know that I necessarily like this dropping in and out of the business in so many people have devoted their lives to it. But it all in all has been very good for me. You have actually been cranking it out, I think you have eight album releases since two thousand and three a lot faster than a lot of this is my fifth career. And this is the only one that's worked. So what does that pays mean to you? And are you going to just keep doing it as I said, I think that it's going has been good for me. I don't know that it's necessarily been good for the business itself. But these will doors. Open and I was able to keep into them. I don't know that I would want to right now. This is for some I've ever made any money. I'd like to enjoy that for a moment this up because I think since the first time since one thousand nine hundred eighty two in two thousand seventeen you signed with a major record label now that everybody's hearing it and more people are interested in looking me, you c-, you can either become is huge thing Ruth Springsteen. Will you can look your known from town to talented tap right now, still I'm only known from city to city that people have to come from towns to see me. I've always wanted to what I call a Ray Charles audience where they will young. Oh, black white Asian what everybody and that's beginning to look that way. From the first thirty years malady was entirely almost black then I did up on sugar Cab Calloway. That added a few whites. Then this fifth career happened. That added some more whites now audience is looking more like I wanted to look that's amazing. So when are you in Bob Dylan going to do a duet? Even don't you start talking to a fish, man. I just want this and just say my name we were in Italy. I came off the stage, and they hit my door my to surrounded. No one can come out mister Dylan's getting ready to go on the stage in that several give. You can say damn let me let me out of his dressing room. So when I come out. Threats. I'm going this way. I'm leaving. He's coming out go on stage with walking like this this much base apart. I guess, and I was so angry that point I said, I Robert Dillon any turned out. And it looked at me and his bass player it was with him and his bass player. I see him out. That's the vet. He came across to my his aunts kissed me square on lips and walked on the stage. And that's how only encounters so far. Well, let's hope that Bob Dylan wasn't the Alba them. And next time. He gives you more than a crash with it. I'd like to hear him say, he's fleas. I think he would be very little vets new album is called things have changed Betty. Thanks for coming in. Maybe thanks so much for having me. Coming up on the frame. A Dutch singer songwriter recalls performing for US audiences for her very first time. Welcome back to the frame. I'm John horn singer songwriter. Nana Joa has lived in the Netherlands for her entire life. But grew up listening to American India acts like Elliott Smith and back. She writes introspective lyrics drawing on her complex relationship with religion. And her Dutch Ghanaian identity, the single off her latest EP was titled dying of old age sounds a bit morbid. I know, but it's actually about growing closer to her Dutch grandmother, though, her songs are all in English. A Joe is most recent tour was her first time performing for US audiences. I don't know if you have the same thing. But when you grow up, you learn like numbers with colors where you're learning like Monday or Tuesday or one and three. So they re they were like three was blue like five, we're, Ed. I don't know. I think that's somewhere that stuck. I definitely have a feeling like okay this. So is orange. Or black and white. One of my friends put door and the other one headed drum set. So that meant that I was going to play the bass. And that actually was when I find out my motor was also bass player. So yes, she gave me my first base lessons. And actually, I don't know the title, but it was a level. Forty two song. Yeah. She played a low of in Cadel kind of stuff. She wasn't relating to like, slapping and stuff. Jeez. Yes. So my dad, I think he moved to the Nolan's somewhere in the eighties illegally just to get some work. And yeah, he met my moment. I'm Saddam when there were about twenty my mom was twenty. It was thirty or something. And I think that time almost pretty like punkish or something like my mom was like kind of rebel also because my Dutch families totally white so going with this African guy was also kind of rebellious act. Sure. I will lift in Amsterdam. And they're a lot of more like colored people where we lived we moved them. When when I was about four to kind of like surburbs kinda five which was more like a white neighborhood, or there were some people call are in different cultures. But they used to call my school of black school. But there were only a handful of color people in there. Down. I didn't really see myself as a singer necessarily. But I was writing my own song. So right and singing them. But like it was like a hidden thing. And it for myself not really out for out for the outset world. It's funny. I only wrote one song I think that's just the see how it works. Commoner talked this stuff Oklahoma. But yeah, I just grew up listening to music, which was always an English show. That's very natural for me. Is a for instance, this song the first line like opening folks that was the first line of rope. And then at the figure out what I wanted to do is box. So that took so type. I've been start with an idea is just like dischord. And then if you just play them long enough, something comes to mind like what you're actually feeling in. I need to kind of write something down. And when reading again, I understand what I feel. So it's kind of like a method to understanding my emotion success. Now, several legions popped up at one point. Because my parents both got religious after day, divorced. But me, and my sister aren't so it's kind of like a touchy subject sometimes. But yeah. So that brought me some new way of fewing things. Bye. She says down the fray, though. Death. So soon dying of old age. I had this wind down some conversations. I had with my grandmother things. I thought about when we were talking. The. She lost my grandpa, which I never met, and he was like about sixty or something. So she's been the like a big part of life alone. Also, she's free agents at it's like a small part in the northern part of the Netherlands. They also have their own language which had owns be anyway. Yeah, we have some discussions about life. And. Yeah. The difference with these US shows is that enough people. Listen to your voice doesn't right away. Register like all the words and Harrow was like really conscious of everybody could understood everything I will saying so I was like getting more into that myself. Also cow. Do I sing this song lyrically, and yes, so that was really a new experience to just know that everybody. The stands what you're saying. It's different really different that feature on Nana. A Joa was produced by the frames Jonathan Shiffling. That's our show for today. Remember, you can always get the frame as a podcast you'll find us wherever you like to listen, I'm John horn. Thanks for listening. We'll see you back here tomorrow.

Bob Dylan Betty Levette John horn John Lasseter Emma Thompson Lassiter Hollywood David Ellison LA times Emma Thomson Dylan Robert Dillon director US Mary McNamara Pixar Steve Jordan Netherlands producer John
Bob Dylan: About Man and God and Law 04 - Before the Law

Pantheon

48:33 min | 9 months ago

Bob Dylan: About Man and God and Law 04 - Before the Law

"Dillon was he was a revolutionary man the way that the way that Elvis freed your body Bob freed your mind. This is Bob Dylan. About. Man. And God. And Law. Blue. Jim Listen to him some saying to you but your mind is wrong. Make you man but I mean, no harm gist bathroom zone penins farm hard times in the country I don't. You move out on opinions farm plan a little trouble by. Crop corn come around the. Plot to get yourself a mortgage on the everything God is hard times in the country. I Don. Our. No more. I. Wake up in the morning. Hands and praying for rain. Out Ahead love. Driving me insane. James we makes me script. A farm agriculture cultivation and culture culture is the art of cultivating elevating shared expression in the pathways of life. It is the fruit of societies Labor's in order for culture. To produce these fruits, we must set boundaries. Now, there are rules for seating in growing culture culture needs a farm. Now. Down on Maggie's farm man gave names to all the animals. And Prays for rain. And you sing while you slave these. Are the colts of culture making its rituals and routines to control otherwise uncontrolled landscapes so that we can feed ourselves. Law conquers nature to provide sustenance, but it's not all that easy down on the farm. The Bentley Boys New at nineteen twenty seven and Bob Dylan. Knew it in one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, five. So far, we've talked about rock 'n roll's twists on salvation, the art of memory, and it's unique mapping of America. But now we get grounded. We're talking about the law, the fences that make good rock and roll neighbors led by our men in the field. Of. Dylan. Meghan. Law. Magazines Ma. S He talks. About, man and God and Law. Robot it says jeeze. Greens. On Law. Sixty, eight. Omaha, what are the rules of Culture we rely upon to make the farm produce? What are the laws in which we entangle so that we can. Produce meaning something life-affirming something lasting. A man from the country. From the highlands from the Iron Range Bob Dylan gets his hands dirty down on the farm. He also gets mixed up with the law, a married man and a divorced man, a white man and a father of voter, an agitator, a Christian do. A record company man. A man of wealth and privilege many masks even Dylan. Who taught in absolutely sweet Marie from Blonde on blonde that to live outside the law, you must be honest even dillon has a date with the law. Going to. Ask. You have to serve somebody. Can may be the devil. In Maine you. Yes you may call him Terry. You may call him timmy you may call him bobby and you may call him Zimmi you may call him Rj you may call him Ray but no matter what you say Bob Dylan, Still GonNa have to serve somebody. How does Bob Dylan? Who once, said, even the birds are chained to the sky how does he understand the burdens and gifts of the law that shape the world? Well. Sharpen your pencils slip that long yellow legal pad out of your briefcase and prepare. For Litigation. You, have a summons. I'm Steven Daniel arnav welcome to episode four of Bob Dylan about man and God and Law. Before. The law. Contrary. To. Some. Maybe. Story you're about to see is true. The names have been changed to protect the innocent. In the world of interpretation of sacred text it is said that there is no early or late in the Bible chronology goes out the window and the realm of cannon grappling with the big questions. We see this in the new testament interweaving teachings and teachers of the Gospels into the old, testament. When God says to Abraham Kill me a son. Says Man. You must be putting me on. We also find a roving gambler trying to start a next world war and a thousand telephones that don't ring. In the collected work up a great collector. Its all time out of mind. and. There is no such thing as an anachronism. Episode three the art of memory saw this in both desolation row with Einstein and the Good Samaritan and Noah in a single song and the cover montage of Sergeant Pepper's lonely hearts club band with Marilyn Monroe. WC Fields Carl Young, and the Beatles themselves posed in a single timeless seen together now. In a seamless corpus beyond time, we will juxtaposed and compare songs from different eras to explain a single idea. A single theme. All is fair in looking for love and. The law. ME. There are so many kinds of laws, religious laws covering everything from diet to sex to who gets to talk to God. There's civil law tax law. Criminal. Law and then there's the law of Johnny cash which producer and companion. Rick. Rubin witnessed for himself when cash began to offer him communion actual communion with the wafer and the wine and the reimbursement of the miracle for years of their friendship even after cash's death. Now Johnny cash was a man Dylan truly admired checkout episode five of our friends at the great rock and roll archaeology for their take on this dynamic dual and and hey, we might add that. This is our first episode fully locked and loaded on the Pantheon podcast network with rock and roll archeology, and so many other great music podcasts. Johnny cash takes the law into his own hands. He makes his own communion he makes his own code, the men in black decided he would be a priest. Even, this was not the black that any official church had granted to him, and then by the power vested in him by the state of Johnny cash a priest, he was the fearlessness of a loving hard edged hard ass who can offer the bird to maximum lawman like Johnny cash did in his famous photo from San Quentin prison, and at the same time grant the tender mercies of his own damn communion with a friend. This is a classic typology of an American hero, the morally superior outlaw. And they don't need no stinking badges. It said the Zimny from gotta serve somebody chose the name Dylan based on Matt Dillon from gunsmoke. and. There's always been something of the western outlaw in Dylan and in rock and roll as a whole. Remember Andy Warhol's Silkscreen of Elvis drawing a gun in a shootout. A piece of art that Dylan is said to thrown into the back of his car and later traded for a couch after visit to the factory bad company the Eagles in Bon Jovi sported cowboy kitsch and a whole universe of stars including the late great gram. Parsons had those Goofy Nudie suits. But Johnny cash himself warns us not to make too much of wild west mythology. It was a slow walk in a sad rain and nobody tried to be John Wayne came home text did not and I talked about the hit he gun it's not just rambos and Maga's choke themselves and And and choke others. With the Cowboy Myth. If you were native American woman a person of color and on and on the default position of cowboy culture was violence the morality but lurking in these good bad and ugly outlaws is a statement from Dylan. We've already mentioned creed and they seen one at that. It surely describes Johnny Cash and probably everything that Gregory? Beck has ever been an from Brownsville girl on down and the creed is this to live outside the law you must be honest. To be an outlaw. To, be outside of the law you better have rules. You better have a moral compass and immoral code to draw outside the lines of the law. You'd better be someone we can trust who knows his or her stuff because all you are is your name even if you've made that name up like outlaws from Bob Dylan tip billy the kid. And like John Wesley Harding. You'd better never make a foolish move. On the same eponymous record centered around an outlaw who never made a foolish move. Dylan sings in I am a lonesome Hobo stay free of petty jealousies live by no man's code and don't go seek paradise in that home across the road. See a true outlaw code is completely Sui generous it belongs to no one but beyond. This. no-ball Co. it alone, this also signals a kind of danger. Let's look at a place in dillon with a law breaks down where no one cheer Sokoto. It's a farm gone to seed overgrown undernourished left to its own devices. It's a world chaos. Welcome to scarlet town population. Everyone. And scarlet. down. Added Lee. And similar. This gene. Sad. I came down. Go down. To a call. Scarlet town like real marcus is imagined town of in tropes from his book the Old, Weird America and we liked the invisible republic title much better was the place Todd Haynes manifest for the silver screen his Dylan inspired film I'm not there which we discussed before. The Wild Wild West without a code It's an imagine past and future. Like the people in Florida living in abandoned motels without electricity outside of Disneyland, because of covid nineteen. Yes That future. The circus is in town is seems of civilization are toward cultures of sacred routine and tradition turned to colts of Cunanan. The weeds grow back through the cracks and they grow scarlet. Like blood. Like the letter says like, oh But deep. And Boundless. Italy. Limbaugh. Blue. And Sky Scarlet town didn't come out of nowhere. It's not one of those fake western towns thrown up facade supported by two by four somewhere in the desert that lasts long enough for the days shoot of some Spaghetti Western now. Put a shoulder to the plow to make those farms to build those buildings to cultivate that culture from those laws before it all went to hot. We visited some of those people in the previous episode in context of the original sin of the American epoch. It's a thing. We will hear Dylan Russell with Austin. That's the law may be so corrupt and degrading in any form that from Hetty Carol to Hollis Brown to Brownsville girl to a woman down in Alabama it must be destroyed before it destroys us. and. Scott. Applause He. Needs No. Introduction. Bob, deb. From the back of it Bush. Met Your efforts. Thing. Trigger. that. Is. Out in the dark. Bar Do. I. I. On. Day. One town sounds a lot like scarlet town before the fall. And everyone black and white is working on Maggie's farm. It's a system hung on that cross that Dylan said Agricultural Mercantile America was crucified upon from the start. Slavery forced Labour is systemic power. Thriving from the poverty pitting weight against black there's no corporate America without it and maybe no constitution either there's no Jim Crow or George Floyd without it. But you also don't get the voting rights act or Mlk or Angela Davis either. Law, American, civil and economic law brings out the best and the worst but I and much more. It brings out the worst and it's negative formative impact on all national systems can be suffocating. Only, a pawn in their game anticipates mega the poor white man manipulated to hate people of color so that he himself can be oppressed by the fabulous vile waxen lawmaker, which is twenty, twenty. Americas stock in trade. So, who are the lawmakers that rule pond town whose farm churn systemic oppression based on controlled scarcity and the Cudgel of race. Good Morning Miss. Here's what kind of mood the end today Marie liked by. But he criticized my dad's. Well, we'd better be heads up today. A little Mr Elton seems to have rubbed off on everyone. His personality can be felt in many ways even in the attitude of the secretary. Lament it appears have learned that the affairs of the day depend to a large degree on Mr emotional condition of the moment. And that it pays to get a reading before the conference begins. Morning Gentlemen. House the coffee I was just thinking how good it was. Excellent. Was Eight. So. I. Don't. Say. Serve head. This madman by tallus vitality, the overlord leaving it to beaver in a gray pinstripe suit this. Cunanan, leaning the quacking McConnell this smoke signaling dog whistling smokey boardroom overboard and over board overlord pushing left and right to extremes from the middle of the road up only with himself only with the Joneses this Mr Jones. That older but younger Bob Dylan called out in only a pawn in their game he is the maker of the law. He is the Guardian. Of, the law. We've met the enemy Dylan says and they are ours. We've met the enemy Dylan says? And they look like someone we know. Seeing one's adversary is seemingly the most civil societies, movers and shakers damned by his own ignorance and fear and confusion as he governs everyone else with utmost cruelty really does make one feel alone. It. Really could drive one to blame and division. Is that. Facing the shiny white teeth of the law and his pointing finger songs. And his most cutting tour often booed and cursed stage an early iteration of the sex pistols or the cramps on tour with A. Band called the Band San's leave on helm and sixty five and sixty six from which the Maelstrom version of Ballad of a thin man we've heard was taken. All of this confrontation did something to Dylan. Hold him in were. Well the struggle with the law as a real cultural social political communal animus would never dissipate from his work really, and it has at times comes lowering back like in murder most foul from rough and rowdy ways. Turning his gaze to the intimate grammar of his own personal. Code. As a much humbled outlaw rather than confronting the law of the world drive. So much of Dylan's work going forward. After seeing. And calling out Mr Jones. For who and what he is. All along the watchtower. After, Mr Jones seems to always get the upper hand maybe life is but a joke. That's how it looks to. Joker. Man. Ran. Food. Task. To the Wildcard, the lonesome Hobo, he's toothpaste. And, he doesn't like what he sees inside of himself. He only makes foolish moves despite with John Wesley. Harding had worn also knows that he knows that he comes from what he comes to. From what he knows of the law. The book of Leviticus and Deuteronomy. The law of the jungle in the sea are your only teachers joker man says to himself. Leviticus the book of the Hebrew Bible most aligned with the priestly colts of ancient. Israel. The logbook and manual for the operation of the temple and all of it sacrifices and rituals. The book of Deuteronomy, which means the repeating a kind of reprieve of all of the preceding four books of the Hebrew Bible in condensed form. The law of the jungle which we hear as a world without law. A world of pure nature, no farms. So farmers just wild and chock full of danger where no joker man should ever really be. And of course, the C-. Ask any poet or Herman Melville about the wisdom that makes humanity seemed like less than a grain of sand when learning the ways of the sea. Dylan addresses himself joker man third person is if he himself is a stranger, a visitor to his own life what a joke. He learned the ancient laws and wound up here. Laughing at himself or as Tony Mitchell won-sang saying laughing and crying you know it's the same release and this is the painful dichotomy which brings us to a crossroads for Dylan and the law. He's learned societies rules and call them out as a young man he's tried to run wild and free as well. Child of the fifties trying out many masters, voice of frustration and irony takes us back to a voice that predates Dylan's by generation but carries the very same bundle of conflicts. A self that feels chosen for something unique and profound with respect for tradition, and the law who searched reveals that life is but a joke. He is everywhere and nowhere all at once. Just like Tom Thumb's blues. Just. Like. Franz Kafka's blues. Before the law. Stanza God. A man comes from the country. Begging admittance to the law. But the God cannot admit him. Can he hope to enter at a later time? That is possible. Says the God the man tries to through the entrance he'd been taught that the law should be accessible to. Do not attempt to anti without my permission says the God. I am very powerful. Yet, I'm the least of all the gods from hall to hall door after door. Each God is more powerful than the last. By God's permission, the man sits down by the side of the door he waits. For years. He waits. Everything, he has. He gives away in the hope of bribing the God. Never fails to say to him I take what you give me only so that you will not feel that you have left something undone. Keeping his walk during the long years manage is learn to know even the fleas and the gods for color. And growing childish you know, H. He begs the village fleas to persuade the God to change his mind and allow him to enter his site is dimmed. But in the darkness, he perceives a radiance streaming immortal mortally from the door of the law. Now before he dies. Always. Experienced condenses into one question a question is never asked he beckons to guard says the God, your insatiable what is it now? Says, the man every man strives to attain the law. How is it then? But in all these years, no one else's ever come here seeking admittance. His hearing has failed. So the God yells into his ear. No one else but you could ever have obtained admittance. No one else could enter this door. This door. was intended. Only for you. Now I'm going to close it. Franz Kafka's before the law is read here by Orson. Welles from his nineteen, sixty, two adaptation of the trial, the full narrative within which before the law appears. At the age of twenty five. Exactly the age of Dylan in his most fertile period of creativity and icon busting well, saw right through his own Mr Jones that was Mr Hurst. Come citizen Kane. The great bearer of the law is nothing more than a scared child who's lost his Rosebud. The man from the country. Kafka's tale the German turn on Mangam land. Maybe a play on the Hebrew term Haaretz which means not just one from the country. But also one without knowledge an ignorant person. Kind of Redneck. This man. This man is reduced to becoming sniffling child before the law like Cain. Remembering is Rosebud or Mr Jones at a total loss he walks into the room where there oughta be a law against him coming. If only Kafka's man from the country at bucked up and followed his instincts. A Little Law of the jungle perhaps, he could have broken through to his Nirvana. But. He had no instincts not an ounce of jungle or see. So. He waited in line like the good citizen. The Citizen Kane owns the line and the guard and the gate and the law. But waiting for the law to do the right thing and take care of them like like Rosebud would. The guard has no interest in this funny business is the man entropy and dies knowing nothing seeing nothing being nothing. He can't take care of himself before the law and no one takes care of him. So he just disappears. Only pawn in their game. World. Kiss, you. Only to. The. People in his lost. Anybody pitches. You. Why Now That's what Leonard Cohen was said to avast. Jennifer warnes in disbelief when he heard that Jewish Board Dylan had entered submerged himself into Evangelical Christianity. It's one of the great conundrums of rock and roll. How Dylan? Bob. Dylan the agitating law busting icon a classic fire-breathing Prophet became the. Agitating Law Busting Iconoclastic fire-breathing Prophet Oh! Maybe, it's not such a mystery. That musician steeped in the music and myth of the church longing to witness in America died on a cross. And a man from the country himself would be drawn to try on the law. In. All of its power and glory. To do. This don't come back. Dunes. Fooled. I believe in you is just one of the scores of gorgeous songs, Dylan released during his so called born again, Christian phase we'd be hard pressed to find a precise beginning and end for the influence of Christian theology belief or longing on Dylan's work. It's in there because it's in American music. So intricately everywhere, but there is a period three, maybe four albums depending on how you count. We're Dylan's Christian. Passion is particularly ferocious. It's also tender it's it's Eric and it's humble layers and waves and the law is everywhere. There's only one as Dylan sings you've either got faith or you've got belief there ain't no neutral ground. Drawn to Christ in the mid Seventies. A friend of Jimmy Carter. The president, the most powerful man in the world a true believer also who shared with Playboy magazine what he thought about when he stood naked. Because even the president of the United, states must stand naked and lusted in his heart and got screwed because of it Dylan. A Yankee in rock and roll sheep's clothing in the Court of Public Opinion Dylan brings together power. The struggles of the internal and external seekers life and ironic resignation the resignation of a Contemporary Kafka into one of the songs in his cannon that seems to cover almost everything everything that the law could want to cover while completely upending it as well. Same Bill. Then yet tell me way ahead. Lincoln County Ru Magadan. Seem Lacob down this way. If. Is there any truth in an Samuel? Senior. Senior. She's I. I'll. Keep five as. To. The. Be. A comfort that CEO. Kafka's man from the country gets both a kick in the ASS and a pat on the back insane your. Senior. The Spanish term for Jesus, the Savior who Dylan is addressing directly. But also the rebel Jesus is in iconoclastic. Jesus takes no quarter and no gold coin when it comes to corruption in the Law Dylan asks him from Lincoln County Road were that old outlaw billy the kid made his beans to Armageddon. Is that all there is senior. This song is layered with allusions awash in color. And, it unfolds within a melody for the ages. God. Honest. Rock of ages, and then the final verse blows up the law. I comes total Alien Nation Dylan is a rolling stone and outlawed you then settles down cultivates a far mix a world. All the wires connecting him with that world. Static, stasis. In some ways living with the law comes down to a dialectical choice. Resignation or elimination should I stay or should I go but then? On the third hand. Is Revolution. Even, though he knows the option to blow it all up is for the taking. He asked Senor in the final. I. For permission to go all the way, he wants not just a fellow traveller. But an authority to bless his resolution of revolution and this question to your rather. This request is unanswered. Hey what would signore do? What would Bob Dylan do? What would Jesus do? The question sounds like the beginning of an answer, but it's not all there. It starts with overturning those tables cutting those cables starting over. Somehow lawless perhaps in a revolution, but it's not televised and signor doesn't answer. Okay I JUST GET UP MYSELF UP Ready when you say See. Table. This place. Used to care but things have changed. Those cables from seeing your actually can't. anyways custom cables and cut the music cut yourself off. But still the mind drips there another way to live outside the law and still be honest. A stadium. When Come up to the. Emmett they. Stays down but it's To eliminate. Wasn't blinking. To think. A Lagging a dream. The To feed. Hearing. Dylan Challenge Authority and also embrace it drives them to to spirit drives them away. It drives him crazy but it also pulls him back in. He loves the farm he hates the farm and there is the resignation that standing in line before the law waiting for your number to come up that's life. So you may as well play one hundred year and make a ton of art while you can. Beyond love and life connection in law and the resignation that God is in his heaven and we all want what's his but power ingred. Incorruptible seed seemed to be all that is there's another outlet that comes up shining in Dylan's world in an. Eyewitness. Alabama, running and in another. Let's see. Was? Class. Time. We said that use it just leaves. It makes it worth for July to go down into the parlor, resign himself to life and relive these three. Liked to extend that ideal further. Beyond the law beyond love even beyond music. There are those dreams. There are the dreams themselves, which provide bulk, the escape, and the purpose of life. One can function in the world played doom even dabble in fully embodying oneself. But there is also a place. A place of dreams disembodiment were the sole lives unencumbered. Schemes and connections, inspections and directions a disembodied Dylan Dylan Adrift but seemingly. Content This. Jeff to all that standing before the law and waiting at the gate and pushing open the kings and getting behind the law and finding out what came before the law. There's a place seems. Very much? Like a series of dreams. Next time on Bob Dylan about man and God, and law we'll be talking the language of Love Romance. Rangel just like a woman love sick all of that and more you. Will. Check out all of our episode Pantheon podcasts Dot. COM, and friends. If you want more of what he heard here stopped by man dot law dot com for sure. Som- lists writing and. Times. When I'm Steven. Daniel Art. Thanks so much for coming. Soon. Everybody I'm Mike. And I'm Jesse, I'm Erin. Altogether. We are the punk tree. On, the show we're going to share music that we love. WE'RE GONNA discuss how punk rock has evolved in different sub genres have developed. We're GONNA, talk to bands that have been influential in shaping the music industry in our lives. Sometimes challenge each other to dig into bands and sub genres that we may not be into on our own. We're a proud partner of the Pantheon podcast network and you can find us across all platforms on social media at the punk tree. We have a really great time talking about music in life with each other. So please join us. Bad. Hi. My Name is Mike Shoe and along with Lukin Russ Khandan from the band town meeting, we host the long. May you young podcast on the Pantheon podcast network? This is our Neil Young. Where we mostly talk. While going through A. Mystery My. conned in boys, Trans and RBIS. Through On. We're pretty sure it's the only podcast that covers neil young's musical catalog album by album in order of release. Why are we doing this? Because we have a neil problem of. We've got the in depth analysis, the historical context, the bad movie references they're all there. But Long May you young podcast? CHECK US out soon because it won't be long before the Pantheon folks figuring out we don't know what the Hell we're doing.

Bob Dylan Dylan Dylan Dylan Franz Kafka America colts Matt Dillon Dylan Russell Maggie Johnny cash John Wesley Harding Mr Jones Jim Crow Marie Bob Meghan James Alabama Ma
Bob Dylan Sells His Entire Catalog of Songs to Universal Music

Business Wars Daily

07:36 min | 6 months ago

Bob Dylan Sells His Entire Catalog of Songs to Universal Music

"Now there are more ways to be a team with microsoft teams. Bring everyone together in a new virtual room. Collaborate live building ideas on the same page and see more of your team on screen at once. Learn more at microsoft dot com slash teams From wondering i'm david brown. This business wars daily on this thursday december seventeenth The times they're changing. Yeah you heard me right. And in a big way. Bob dylan sold his entire back catalogue of music to universal music group earlier. This month price wasn't made public but estimates range from three to four hundred million dollars. The catalog contains about six hundred songs composed over sixty years over the years. Dillon has sold more than one hundred. Twenty five million records and at seventy nine years old. He's still performing globally for the last several decades until the pandemic he performed more than one hundred concerts per year. Not surprisingly the ceo made su nami sized waves the new york times called it a blockbuster deal and said it may be the largest sale. In history of a single songwriters music dylan status is unlike that of any other musician in the twenty first century in two thousand eight. He won a pulitzer prize for quote his profound impact on popular music in american culture marked by lyrical compositions of extraordinary poetic power in two thousand sixteen. He won the nobel prize in literature for quote having created new poetic expressions within the great american song tradition at the time. The nobels permanent secretary. The late sarah donahue's compared dylan to greek poets. Homer and sappho dylan is also the recipient of numerous grammy awards and the presidential medal of freedom. Moreover dylan is seen not just as a cultural icon but also as one who has kept the copyrights to his songs even while allowing many other musicians to cover them. He's also allowed his music to be used for some surprising commercial undertakings like twenty nineteen super bowl budweiser ad in two thousand four. Victoria's secret out. According to the wall street journal copyrights to the compositions themselves are distinct from recording and performing rights among the songs in the catalog at universal acquired or some that have gone down in history indeed changed history like blowing in the wind like a rolling stone and yes the times they are a and indeed catalogue. Sales are emblematic of the dramatic changes in the music industry itself over the last several years as streaming has exploded in popularity as we reported earlier this year. The big three record companies. We're talking about universal warner and sony. Make an average of a million dollars every hour. Thanks to our listening habits. That's according to trade publication called music business worldwide and that's largely due to fees they receive when listeners stream songs goldman sachs predicts the music business will be worth forty five billion dollars in twenty thirty. That's more than double its value today. And it's one big reason. Why music publishers. Like universal and a raft of newly interested private equity investors are snapping up. Songwriting catalogs the songs of timeless. Performs like dylan dolly parton. David crosby stevie nicks and many more are seen as commodities like gold with a fairly certain prediction of making money for buyers. Long into the future as npr reports will be able to use. Dylan's catalog of songs anyway. It wants it learned money anytime. It allows other uses whether for movies or commercial scores performances by other musicians and of course whenever the songs are streamed or broadcast. Although it may have taken bob dylan sale to get the public to sit up and take notice. Songwriters have been increasingly parting with their back. Catalogs over the last few years sales have been getting more frequent and more valuable trade paper variety reports. Stevie nicks recently sold eighty percent of her cadillac to a privately held publisher for a reported one hundred million dollars the pop group imagine dragons so the rights to their back catalogue to concord publishing august also for one hundred million dollars according to marketwatch. David crosby recently admitted on twitter. That he's planning to sell his catalog a way to make money. In the absence of touring dolly parton is also considering selling has ceo likely to generate a bidding war according to the guardian newspaper. If you happen to be a world renowned musician now maybe the perfect time to sell buyers are paying ten to twenty times. The value of annual royalties to acquire. Catalogs like dylan's and knicks wall street journal reported. That's up from eight to thirteen times the value some years ago with streaming growing exponentially the value of the actual content the songs promises to continue climbing so says music industry expert. Nick george. You're an adviser to a new kind of business. Music catalog investor. According to variety the company jewelry advises is called hypnosis songs fund. It's a multibillion dollar publicly traded firm. That's purchase songwriting cadillacs from lesser known but lucrative artists like bon jovi guitarist and songwriter mark. Ronson ronson has written music for lady gaga and amy winehouse. The funds stock symbol y. s. o. n. g. of course to investors like hypnosis music rights our way of securing future income as we said like buying a commodity and certainly that's true for universal's purchase of bob dylan's catalog but there's something more there as well to represent the body of work of one of the greatest songwriters of all time whose cultural importance can't be. Overstated is both a privilege and a responsibility so said jody gerson gerson overseas universal's music publishing business and waxing poetic even further universal ceo sir lucian grange said. His songs are timeless where they were written more than a half a century ago or yesterday it is no exaggeration to say that his vast body of work his capture the love and admiration of billions of people all around the world. The universal purchase doesn't include any future songs. Bob dylan may right. And he doesn't seem to be slowing down any just this march. It almost eighty years old. He released a new seventeen minute song murder. Most foul is about the assassination of john f kennedy and now like all those other songs. It's owned by universal from one degree. This is business daily. Subscribe on apple podcasts. Spotify wondering app or wherever. You're listening right now. Join wondering plus in wondering apt to listen at free. I'm your host david brown. This episode was written and produced by lane appleton. Dream edited by important. Our executive producer is marshall louis created by fernando lopez or wondering. Now there are more ways to be a team with microsoft teams. Bring everyone together in one space with a new virtual room. Collaborate live drawing sharing and building ideas with everyone on the same page. And make sure more of your team is seen and heard with up to forty nine people on screen at once. Learn more about all the newest teams features at microsoft dot com slash teams.

dylan bob dylan su nami sarah donahue sappho dylan universal warner microsoft david brown universal music group dylan dolly parton David crosby stevie nicks the wall street journal pulitzer prize Dillon concord publishing grammy awards
138 - The Keepers - Archive Fever, with host Frances McDormand

The Kitchen Sisters Present

57:35 min | 1 year ago

138 - The Keepers - Archive Fever, with host Frances McDormand

"Welcome to the kitchen sisters present six where the kitchen sisters. Dave Nelson N. Nikki Silva now you can get enhanced security for your Wifi network with xfinity. Xfi protected now. That's simple easy. Awesome go to xfinity DOT COM. Call one eight hundred xfinity or visit a store today to learn more restrictions. Apply Bob Dylan Secret Archive in Tulsa. You wrote blowing in the wind and ten minutes is that right mm-hmm Prince's epoch. Vault in Minneapolis. A plan was to make a proper vault in the basement of Paisley Park Studios. And we did. That was the baby. Vault on. Reeling was legendary cinematheque in Paris. The philosophy rose to save everything the masterpiece the unknown films even Fascist films the national archives. And it's official keeper. The first librarian action figure the dark side of the dewey decimal system all these tales and more welcome to the keepers our to archive fever startling stories of archiving and keeping from around the globe from the kitchen sisters and P. R. X. In this collection of keep her stories we pay homage and give thanks to the many who worked together and safeguard our history and culture and the free flow of information and ideas. The kitchen sisters present the keepers. Toast Francis McDermott. Welcome back I'm Francis mcdormand your host with a new collection of stories from the kitchen sisters Davey Nelson N. Nikki Silva and PR X. keepers stories of archivists librarians collectors curators and historians gone rogue stories of people with a passion for preservation stories of people with a bad case of archive fever. We begin in Paris with the ultimate tale of an archivist. Gone rogue unreal. Longhua looms large in history of filmmaking though. He himself never made a single film possessed by what French philosopher. Jacques Derrida called Archive Fever. Wa began obsessively collecting films in the Nineteen Thirties and by the outset of World War. Two had one of the largest film collections in the world. After the war the French government funded. The expansion of Lang was cinematheque francaise an archive dedicated to preserving and exhibiting movies from all eras and countries emerging filmmakers Francois Truffaut Gianluca Dard Bernardo Bertolucci directors and film buffs from around. The world began flocking to the cinema tech to learn the language and craft film. The archives impact on the history of French cinema of world cinema is legendary as is the legacy of its controversial keeper archive fever on Reeling Law and the Cinematheque Francaise Ladies and gentlemen the President of the Motion Picture Association of America. Mr Jack Villain Tonight the Academy Presents Award to someone who is not a maker of film but it's truly a savior. Your of him. This man stood guard. No one else was there. The director of the cinematheque Francais in Paris. The curator collect or the conscience of the cinema. Honoree lingua is in invented. Inventively. Take a name is Agnes. Valda and French film director. I met you know. Demand was very impressive. Fatten speaking very well very smart about missiles to keep him including the few. We don't like to feel your growers to save everything. The masterpiece unknown films even the fascist films. I'm Jacky Char filmmaker. I studied as an assistant. Love seen him our newest teenager twist moment where the team stopped under. Turkey's arrived the early thirties near destroying. Every silent. Movie started collecting all those movies. Now just shave them for the future but to show them. My name is Costa Rica. Russ I'm director and president of the French cinema started to buy boxes of film in the Bathtub. Up to the best of his parents. Flat US started non-glue. Was there at the time where the film could set. Fire to building where it was kept. It was of course very dangerous. Those moves were bombs you know I used to tie with NYPD firms and my sleeping and suddenly they have idea it's dangerous which is nonsense if you'll know how to handle cinematheque Francaise Curator Laudi Eisner. When I met all along about in thirty four we tied to save the Knighthood firms. This muscle beginning of our fight would have been lost and destroyed and long fought for that long grass principle just like people have to go for a walk themes have to run. If you'll just keep some invalids died maybe even four team one to meet a Nazi occupation. Blunk was organizing projection of forbidden films actress. Simone senior very first time I ever saw was mothers in kind dining. She was serving Legal Ping cakes. We could go to jail just for seeing something which is forbidden during work. All kinds of tricks to hide the film stash. Moreover France and cassard people in you was incredible. Amount of family saved in decrees. He places we kept them. I don't know how he did it. Going around and find movies been hidden by distributors and show them by Charlie chopping song. You could pay somebody blind kind of resistance. Learn relative appear in gifted flow and with a very mysterious Luxi tonight. Eight t such a place acting legs by the Nazis Censor German expressionist than American films. Destroy Them My name is sitting Vivo. Through trim curator of cinematic from says Roy had to high thousands of films switching cans pitching films. We are still discovering many different titles every month like fifty five fifty six coming as many as possible because he feels will very young just finbar's had the feel maybe is known member of the fourth of diversion the genius to speak about feeling. Cagey about Mr Milo and I don't like your manage. I'm crazy about you really fans. We're always in the first five. I'm Barbara Schroeder filmmaker. Die Head to look to see the complete work of Howard hoax. Mitsubushi Bergman two movies are night. It was a lot of fever in that love of cinema in one day. You might see an African firm Japanese Chinese film with Turkish subtitles wave. He's only got shot coach before in the fifty s all future directors of the Nouvelle. Varga where they're seen films are just like entertainment. Budget is something very serious. Speaking about life people psychology. They want to Creighton new type of cinema against the traditional way of me from the famous French directors cool and of Manet. They were the first ones to bring the camera into the street to shoot with friends and girlfriends. Van. Young filmmakers such truffaut Chabrol developed this fever this passion for film by attending the screenings run by relying war. He was able to incubate a whole generation of filmmakers and thinkers through his visionary programming. I never say before. This is good news bad discover Langa. I have nothing which I have only give food. And they eat the food on the food on the to Shaw Row Wester Thin and pretty guy when he was young at the time became very fat lighthouse on wells. How each cook the wife mess on. She became fat to the new. The presumptive getting bigger and bigger as the archives of the cinematic was also getting bigger. There were problems. Would he knew what there was? Exactly what condition was to logic to mess. He always had clashes with government. They'll try to make rules in exchange of money they were giving of itself. I am saving films every day. Just do my work but keep giving me money. This is the reason why Lula was. Was this big international scandal. Young people like douses see long voice our files a he was kicked out. The immediately protested everybody with lung because of the beginning station for law was the first time where we saw on the streets of Paris police between artists and intellectual misled starter of the French Revolution of sixty eight. I was part of the young Dr meaning that whereas demonstrating for long work so big movement in decided to stop gun first of all thanks to receive a telegram to return with pneumatic from filmmakers all over the world and find each call customer seventy five days. Bhagat's cinematheque vendors. So my my very first picture was shown by this enigmatic. Francis yes he kept my print. I tried hard to get it out of his hands again but he said no no. I rather keep it and I realized that's how he had assembled this amazing correctional thousands and thousands of films. He just kept up and then it was. Of course the thing at least there was always going to be a print of the film long was educated a whole generation of Congress and from my guts and saving the memory of mankind. Inc Nature Thanks to all at the cinematheque Francaise in Paris. Who opened the old vault for this story? Hi Kitchen sisters. My name is Wednesday Schmitz Withdrawal Curator Astronomical photographs here at the Harvard Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. We have over five hundred thousand glass plate photographs of the night sky that were taken between eighteen eighty five and nineteen ninety-two during the late eighteen hundreds. We had a team of women known as the Harvard woman. Computers who studied these stars that were preserved on the glass? They discovered the chemical composition of stars. Pick it out tool time distance in space. They did this all without looking through back then. It was considered improper for women to study science. Stay up all night without chaperone part of the keepers project. Mckean David my friends. The kitchen sisters opened a hotline and ask people to tell them about the collections and keepers. We should Miss Monroe Nathan work. A remarkable keeper from another century was introduced to us by RJ. Ramey Monroe Nason work. He was the director of research and records at the Tuskegee Institute and higher by Brooker Washington. He literally was the man behind the collection in a comprehensive way of every lynching that was happening in the United States and this is the time when those were happening at a rate of one week or nine per month times and he got the south talking about this horrendous act. That was happening inside their borders. His wife was involved in his story. In a way that is completely indicative of how women don't get told them. The story is definitely a hero to be investigated. Okay Hi my name is Hilary Swat. I'm an archivist from the library. Up a writers Guild Foundation as an artist. I think of myself as keeping the stories of America's storyteller movie and TV writer. I have the records of our union going back to nineteen thirty three that cover the struggle of the raiders trained to secure stable employment fair wages history of labor and capitalism in twenty three hundred feet and not to mention McCarthyism. Fifty trucks screenwriters particularly hard communist party or have you been a member of the bar while they would ten jailed during that period. Worst thing is I'm framing my answer and the only way any American food denied venue and away up for Americanism for many years away from this Dan. The bill of rights with autopay growing away from the blacklist has been coming up again as freedom of speech. Isn't this like guys again. The more time I sit around our historical material the more the common threads of people at work and the stories that we tell each other I see my job An archivist highlight the reds. But maybe hope people knew one. You're listening to the keepers from the kitchen sisters and PR X. Stories of activists archivists will librarians curator's collectors and historians guardians of history large and small protectors of the free flow of information and ideas. I'm your host. Frances mcdormand stay with us. More keepers cometh including a journey to the dark side of the dewey decimal system. Pink. You're listening to the keepers protectors of the free flow of information and ideas collectors of the ephemeral. The strange and the beautiful. I'm your host. Frances mcdormand David. Vario is the nation's tenth keeper the head archivist at the National Archives a collection of some thirteen billion pieces of paper forty-three million photographs six billion electronic records and miles and miles of film and video. That hold the historical record of this frenzy nation. Very Oh told us. The Nation's keeper is responsible for documenting. What is going on? Here's what was going on that. The National Archives in two thousand eighteen. Let's be clear. The papers don't belong to Cavenaugh George Bush would donald trump. They belong to the American people. That's why we have a national archives. It's a foundation of OUR DEMOCRACY. Having records of what transpired in the great history of this nation informs us and it's like a dictatorship to say those records should not be available or only the pieces that we want should be available. That's not the democracy. We treasure here in America. I call the archivist myself. Yesterday I made a request of him. This time of constant controversy archives to are having their share. Senator Schumer was hammering Mr Ferri as head of the National Archives over the public release of some one hundred thousand documents relating to break Cavanaugh. Who had just been nominated to the Supreme Court such as the job of the archivist of the United States? Nikki spoke Mr Berio before. All this erupted as we began our quest for the country's keepers. I'm David I'm the archivist of the United States. I'm responsible for ensuring that the records of the US government are created maintained and delivered to us in the manner that the American public can have access to them in perpetuity. How does the word keeper resonate with you? It's an important part of the responsibility but I'm much more focused on access. There's a reason for keeping its to make records available from the very beginning. Intent was and this is Franklin Roosevelt. I'm the archives was created that the American people needed to be able to access the records and to hold the government accountable for its actions. And that's keeping means from the very beginning. They were people who were dead serious about ensuring that the records are kept we have all. The allegiance signed at Valley Forge by George Washington and his troops. That no food. They had no uniforms but they had thousands of preprinted forms that they had to sign and witness and that was the beginning. My favorite person might hero in all. This is it clerk and the State Department Stephen Pleasanton the night before the British burned the town in twelve war of eighteen twelve realized. The charters were at risk. Can You roll them up? Stuffed into linen sex comedy to wagon on the street and took them into the hills of Virginia. The only reason that the Constitution Thackeray some independence and the bill of rights have survived because of Stephen Presents. And do you think there's a certain personality involved here in the keeping and pleasanton obsessive compulsive? Is that what you're after anal retentive? No there's a belief in documentation. There's a belief in ensuring that our history is preserved And there's I think the from the very beginning a realization that something important is going on recognizing that future generations. We're going to want to know. Fdr was I'm convinced was a closet. Archivist himself he called the archives. His baby key hired the first archivist. Robert de w Connor Khanna wrote about what is interview was like with FDR. It was summer. He was wearing a woollen suit and he was sweating bullets and the president asking now. It's pronounced archivist right. Not archivist so from the very beginning this. How do you pronounce it? What is what is it all about so he puts up a call. Was everybody running to him with these collections. Oh my God no. That was the biggest problem he had. That's just cracks me up. You want me to give up my records. What are you talking about. Nothing changes some of the pictures shows. Horrible conditions records are stored in Addison. Basements all over town records of the White House. During the Hayes Administration were kept in garage on the White House. Low on fire broke out. The president himself was out there in the bucket brigade putting the fire out to save the records. It's amazing what has survived survived the tension between protection and access. It's the biggest issue and it's an issue that all of us in these kinds of institutions whether it's a library archives or museums deal with every day in every one of my jobs. I've been through horrible situations where stuff has disappeared. Stuff has been destroyed cases like my guy who stole several drafts of FDR speeches from the library. He had a suit coat that had deep pockets sewn into it. This is how he was getting stuff out in the evidence file. We had the code itself started collecting electric mail during the Reagan administration in Reagan and Bush. Forty one two point five million email messages. Twenty million from the Clinton White House two hundred and ten million from Bush forty three and over three hundred million for Obama. The current president's tweets we are capturing both the personal account the Real Donald Trump and bodus accounts and the deleted once it's part of the capture. We don't collect just the good stuff. We collect everything you know. It's a role and we've got some bad stuff in our history. Take a look at engine to reduce all of the things that the. Us government promised transit hospitals schools money for the land and never delivered on any of them. Indian elders and Indian lawyers. Visit all the time because there are still cases around Water Rights Land Rights. That are being tried based on these documents every day. See Firsthand how those documents are affecting people about a million and a half people year walking through the Rotunda twice a year. We do naturalization ceremonies. New Citizens are sworn in in front of the and is to see them experiencing the documents outlining the rights. That are now. There's the whole concept of open government making records available opening up declassifying. It just makes it all the more important that the work that we do carries on the worst possible for documenting. What's going on the truth? The Very First Nancy Pearl Librarian Action. Figure is a five inch plastic figure with clothes that looked a bit dowdy which made a lot of people unhappy but which were in fact. Nikki. I have to say the nicest clothes that I owned and they just did not translate into plastic particularly well Nancy Pearl. She's been called one at the ten coolest librarians alive. She's the best selling author of book. Lust recommended reading for every mood moment and raisin and she started a project called if all Seattle read the same book an idea caught on and spread to cities and communities all across the nation. And then of course. There's the action figure the action figure with that push-button shushing action sh the kitchen sisters present. Nancy Pearl Librarian action figure. I'm Nancy Pearl. A company in Seattle did a series of action figures. They did Jesus. They did Shakespeare. They did Moses. The owner was telling us that people were writing insane. The Jesus Action figure was actually performing miracles for them. And I said you know but mark the people who really perform miracles are librarians. They changed people's lives. And Somebody said I'll mark you should do what librarian action figure. I'll in Nazi should pay them model for it that night. My husband said Nancy. Think this through. Do you really want to be a five inch plastic non-biodegradable action figure and I said it'll never happen about a year later. Mark called at said what I like to come to Muckilteo. North of Seattle to be digitized. Oh I should say action. If you pressed a button the arm would move up in a kind of sure shing movement and of course that's action. I mean you play on the stereotype. There are probably forty librarians in the world. Who have no sense of humor? And everyone of them wrote to me. Two of them said I had set the librarian profession back forty years. I frequently walk myself in my mind into the park branch library in those days. You couldn't check out books from the adult section until you were thirteen and you've got a youth card and when I turned thirteen Miss Whitehead. Who IS MY BELOVED LIBRARIAN? Took me to the adult section and introduced me to the librarians. They're somewhat grudgingly because she felt there. Were still so many books in the children's section that she wanted me to read. When I met Miss Whitehead I was about eight years old. All I was reading were horse and dog books. After she got to know me she would do this. Kind of Bait and switch tactic with me. She would say Nancy. We just Scott a new horse book in the library. A New Marguerite Henry Book. Do you want to be the first person in this library to read that book and of course I yes I mean my golly. How could you not want it and I got me every time I would like. Hold out my hand for that book and she would say. Oh but wait a minute. I want you to read another book. That was the way she got me to read the Hobbit Mary poppins and Rabbit Hill. And all those in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight. We had the first if all Seattle read the same book I loved the towns big and little have taken this sort of core of this idea and interpreted it in a way that fits their community cultural attache at the embassy in Bosnia called me and said would I come to Bosnia and help train leaders to lead these discussions. That are going to deal with difficult issues. We had Muslims and Croats and Serbs teenagers all over this broken dysfunctional country of Bosnia. All reading the same book Sherman. A LEXI's the absolutely true diary of a part time Indian. Initially I thought. Oh I don't know Sherman's book. How is that going to translate to Bosnia from a native American spokane Indian reservation where the book is set but boy was I wrong? It was the perfect perfect book about a teenager. Who DOESN'T FIT? Who doesn't belong just to see these kids who never never interact coming together this discussion. You could see. Oh Yeah. That's how I felt about the book to even though you're somebody whose family hates my family because we're a different religion. I mean it sounds so pretentious to say reading heels the world but it does and it can. I do think of myself as the keeper. The past can be so disposable. How dangerous that is reading gives us? Compassion were living a life outside of ourselves. And how important is at this time that our leaders need to be readers. You're listening to the keepers from the kitchen sisters and PR ex. I'm your host Francis. Mcdermott law isn't the only controversial. Kiwi uncovered the dark side of the dewey decimal system. My name is Molly Schwartz in the Metropolitan New York Library Council. Every time you say you go to library school like when you're at a party and you're like. I'm librarian or have a degree in library science. Everyone one of the first things I say is do you know the Dewey? Decimal System Libraries Dewey decimal system. It's the first thing people think of then. My colleague Davis was like. Oh Yeah and Melvil Dewey. The Guy who invented it was also huge racist. It turns out. They're all these things. I didn't know about Melvil Dewey. Melvil dewey was this late nineteenth century eccentric and he came from this very strict. Religious family feuds obsessed with organizing everything that he could buy ten. He tried to go to bed. At ten o'clock. You tried to sleep ten hours a night it born on December tenth. He just thought this was the most logical perfect number. And so of course he made a classification system that was developed by ten he. College student came up with this system to catalog and classify all human printed knowledge. Hundreds are psychology parapsychology in philosophy. The Two Noble Dewey was actively putting knowledge into buckets. I became a bit obsessed with the fact that he was making these decisions himself as to wear knowledge would go look at. This came out of our cultural moment. It's got biases built in Barbara. Fister Librarian at Kostovice at Office College. In Minnesota many of these systems came out of a particular context. They're flawed in a number of ways. So we will look at the classification system and say what looks weird here. Women are like some set of families anarchism his ex to social deviants. What's going on with that? There was a lot of material. Validating that melvil Dewey was racist. I mean to be fair. He was living in the late eighteen hundreds. He was hardly the only one. There was a widespread eugenics movement in the United States. He was so vocally racist that he got kicked out of the New York State Board of regents because he hadn't been allowing Jews at this country club that he built in upstate. New York he also was known as serious sexual harasser. He got kicked out of the American Library Association which he had helped found because on this trip they took to Alaska. He made an appropriate moves on six different librarians and they reported him and there were multiple eyewitnesses of him groping his personal assistance. Who lived with him in his house? It was bad and I got an email chrome Librarian Jessica behind Barg High School in Queens New York. There have been some issues that had come about where books for ending up based on Dewey and she was asking these library student interns nearby. They had noticed that within the American history section of their library in the nine hundreds there were almost no books about like the Civil Rights movement about women's history in about immigrant histories. Those books were all classified under the three hundred. Social Sciences section. I asked my students. Should we take over the dewey decimal system? Should we move all of these books out of there into the night hundreds if we put all of the LGBTQ books into one section then? They're not in fiction anymore and people who are just looking for a good fiction book are only going to find straight characters. I understand why categorization is important but it also brings up a lot of issues that I feel like difficult to solve that whole kind of hierarchical structure of the Dewey. Decimal system doesn't reflect how we think about knowledge anymore coming up with a classification system is really really hard. I'm actually okay with not reclassifying everything and I'm alright. With just saying this is what we have is deeply flawed. Isn't that interesting? And how can you use it? In spite of itself it just gets to the core of the way you find in discover knowledge is really significant and there are a lot of decisions that go into the systems that shape how we discover knowledge. The dark side of the dewey decimal system was produced by Molly Schwartz for her podcast library by geist. In collaboration with the kitchen sisters. It's not all roses and lollipops in library town. They're always individuals and groups actively trying to censor the books that are made available for free to their communities and then. There's the overdoses after witnessing drug overdoses in her library and the nearby Park Philadelphia Adult Teen Librarian. Sheriff Wolski got training in overdose defense and now advocates for training librarians and community members to administer Narcan a drug that reverses the effects of opioids to people in distress. The New York Times described it. This way once it was overdue books now. Librarians fight overdoses. Philadelphia became the epicenter for Naloxone. Lock zone toting librarians a trend. That is now taking hold across the nation as one librarian seddon supportive librarians being trained to administer narcan to the public need. Those are their needs now later. They might meet Shakespeare but those are their needs now tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow creeps in this petty pace from today. We'll be right back. The kitchen sisters present is sponsored by thrive cosmetics a cosmetic brand with emission bigger than beauty thrive. Cosmetics are one hundred percent vegan and cruelty. Free all of their products are formulated without parabens. Sulfates and thanks. I just tried their lip. Mate it's glossy topper that hydrates and looks great all by itself or over your favorite shade. Another thing I'd like. For every product purchased thrive cosmetics donates funds were products to women emerging from homelessness surviving domestic abuse and women fighting cancer. Start thriving and help women in need today by going to thrive cosmetics dot com slash kitchen sisters and use code kitchen sisters fifteen percent off your first purchase. That's thrive C. A. U. S. E. MEDICS DOT com slash kitchen sisters code kitchen sisters for fifteen percent off thrive cosmetics dot com slash kitchen. Sisters Code Kitchen Sisters now is time to about the keepers of vinyl of all night mixes recordings that helped shape the culture and made a move prince's now notorious fault holds treasure untold in one thousand nine hundred three Prince Hired. Susan Rogers and L. A. Sound technician one of the few women in the industry to move to Minneapolis and help upgrade his home recording studio Susan became Prince's engineer the engineer of Purple Rain Parade Sign of the times and all the prince recorded for the next four years. It was Susan who started prince's massive archive during her years with the legendary Minnesotan as a songs piled up and the sessions beg to be preserved. Prince and the technician. Keep the electrons flowing Saturday in mid nineteen eighty-three prince was just coming off the nineteen ninety nine tour and he had a hit with Little Red Corvette on the billboard. Hot One hundred. He was happily based out of Minneapolis but his home studio was in disrepair. He asked his management to find him technician. My boyfriend at the time called me up right away and he said your dream job is waiting for you. Princess technician and I said well tell them their searches over. That's my job. I'm getting that job. My name is Susan Rogers. I'm a professor at Berkley. College of Music in Boston. Prior to y academic career. I was a recording engineer and record producer. I worked with Prince for many years in the Mid Eighty S. The first time I met Prince face to face was about a week after I'd heard him upstairs above me. Prince was notoriously shy and guarded in private. He lived in a House and Jan Hasson. My first task was to pull out an old recording console and install a new one that he had just bought. While I'm downstairs in that studio I could hear him upstairs. Right above me on his Yamaha Baby Grand Piano playing the beautiful ones purple. I could hear meetings that. He was taking with members of vanity six and members of the time. But in C- him when I finally finished became downstairs. Yes me. Some questions was no introduction or anything it was just you know digital this. What about that? What's happening there come back tomorrow? We'll start tomorrow. And then he turned to go back up the stairs and something inside of me to don't let it start like this. I just turned twenty seven years old. I left everyone. I'd ever known in California to come twenty three hundred miles across the country to take this job. Something about this didn't feel right as he was walking away. I said Prince. I stuck my hand out. I'm Susan Rogers. He looked at me and got that look on his face that would come to know very well where he was trying not to laugh stuck his hand out and he said. I'm prince so we begin and it was Over four years. I was with him. What happened on Day Two? How did do was just as exciting? He had me put up a tape. Darling Nikki and I was hearing darling. Nikki been released yet that second day. He asked me to set up a vocal. Mike and I did and at any moment. I just assumed that the recording engineer was going to come in and I was afraid this engineers really going to be angry at me. I was a technician technicians. Repair the equipment. They don't use the equipment. She was a sex. Fiend finally prince game in and he asked if we were ready. And I said yes. Who's going to record it? And he said you and that's when I realized there is no engineer. I'm it. He wants me to be his technician and he wants me to be the engineers. Well we work long long days. Are Sessions were typically twenty four hours long? He would not stop until it was done. When I first went to work for Prince I realized that this is GonNa be a tough one because asking me for tapes that I'd never heard of of songs that he had recorded. That hadn't been released yet. I started gathering up whatever tapes I could find and then I started getting a little bit obsessive. There must be stuff out and other studios. There must be stuff at sunset. Sound Warner Brothers. Records his label. They've got stuff. I better call them and get his then. I started getting even more obsessive. Let me see if I can get every tape. He's ever recorded. And then I needed a system for cataloging it so as putting it in a notebook and the office said well that will never do so. They got me in early. Nineteen eighty four. Ibm as this quickly began to blossom in the garage of his home it became clear. This will not do because Minnesota. If you haven't heard has wild temperature swing us Searing raging humid heat in the summer. And you know bitter outerspace cold. In the winter we found a record document storage facility that would allow twenty four hour access. We began our process of archiving prince's tapes putting them in these plastic bins sealed with a padlock and stored in this storage facility. A plan was to make a proper vault in the basement of Paisley Park Studios. And we did. We didn't know mutates we'RE GONNA end up there. It was it was just Florida seeing tapes now. I left Princeton late. Eighty seven by the nine days they could knock at the door of ball clothes. I never let prince no that I had no training. As a recording engineer realized at some point that Prince knew the difference. He didn't care. Prince has been described as a perfectionist in. I'd like to correct that presumption that perfectionism which was there and he's playing was there in many areas of his life. It wasn't there in his recording if he'd wanted perfection he wouldn't have me as his engineer. He wanted someone who could facilitate his creative out. Put someone who could keep electrons flowing. All it may come as no surprise. But Bob Dylan is a keeper. Bob and his team have been archiving. His music notebooks paintings end journey for some five decades. Bob Kept just about everything a massive private archive if a notoriously private person housed in storage facilities in New York. Minneapolis MALIBU AND JERSEY. So it made headlines when word got out that this secret archive had been sold and was headed to its new permanent public comb and Tulsa Oklahoma a curveball. Nobody saw coming. Some are Kaiser for scholars. Some archives are tourist attractions. Few are part of a vision. For the civic rejuvenation of a once thriving American city the Bob Dylan Archive on curveball. Comes to also Glenn Horwitz Horwitz Bookseller New York City. You're looking for the keepers. I maybe simply the concerts light of my life by Made it orange his tongue. Take care of the catalog then. Sold the papers novel. Buckminster Fuller the Watergate. Papers Would Bernstein. This record is a message to young people. Be Cool be kind. Turn on tune in drop leary's Archive Archives of Mailer John Updike and David David. Dern Neil Young Judy Collins and most notably in recent memory Bob Dylan Bob Dylan just one man doing all that playing the mouth heart and the guitar. You must be twenty years old now. Let's twenty. I was fortunate in that. I had been asked a number of years early to craft a transaction between the George Kaiser Family Foundation Been Tulsa and the state of Woody Guthrie for what he's papers which they were very keen on bringing back to Oklahoma so when the opportunity to do something with Bob's are have was presented to me. I kept going back to the idea that there could be a somewhat more inventive solution than the traditional one. A Harvard or Yale the notion of just sticking Bob into Harvard next of the Ralph Waldo. Emerson the John. Updike papers at some level I suppose it had an appeal reflecting on this. Bob said I don't mean to spend eternity sitting next to James. Joyce I'm Mark Davidson Archives Director of the Bob Dylan Archive in Tulsa Oklahoma. What are these? These large red tanks are the fire suppression system in the volts. If there is a fire these tanks will suck out all the. Stop the fire in his tracks and protect the archive subsequently. Kill everybody in there. But it'll keep the fire. I feel a little bit expendable but for a good cause I'm going to a couple of items false ninety ground here gloves. This was the tampering inspired Mr Tambourine. Man Big frame drum with an animal skin head. They're our jingle bells stapled to the inside. They rattled thusly the Black Leather Jacket. Dylan war when he wants electric at Newport in nineteen sixty five we have every take of every recording Bob Dylan ever did tens of thousands of files music film and photography. It's documented his working. Walk Steve Higgins Special Projects Manager? Bob Dole and Jack up into the room pencil in your head. You see somebody naked in you news. Michael Chafing curator the Bob Dylan Archive. And also George Carlin's our family foundations interest in this archive was the be able to use it in a more civic fashion George Kaiser freely amidst that. He's not a tremendous Bob Dylan face chapter and verse by doing. But he has a vision for Tulsa and understand Bob Dylan's outsize role in American culture. And what he represents how many people who Labor in the same musical vineyard in which you toil us their music to protest the Social State in which we live today How many yes are there many? There's about one hundred thirty six. Say about one hundred and thirty six. You mean exactly. One hundred and thirty six Thirty six two hundred forty to the Kaiser Foundation buying up the Dylan Archive looking at it. As a way to connect with the work they're doing in Tulsa Early Childhood Development Healthcare Oklahoma has the highest incarceration rate of African American. Women is a big civic component to the Dylan Archive civic projects to try to make our community more Byron more inclusive more interesting. The idea of equal opportunity early intervention in the cycle of poverty. My name is Ken Levitt. And I'm the Executive Director of George Kaiser Family Foundation George. Kaiser is a Tolson. His family fortune came out of oil. He's part of this group of billionaires. I Gates wanted see as fortunate and put to good use. George's father came to America from Nazi. Germany they came to Tulsa which welcomed them as an immigrant family and help them build a future. He's had every opportunity to be successful and everybody else should have that same opportunity. George said we ought to find great artists or musicians. Homer routes but materials may be elsewhere and see whether we get the back door Tulsa than what about what he got three and it's Great Oklahoma who had passionate interest in solving social problems and George gave me the thumbs up. Landed your land and this land is my land and the California. The first major project in the artistic we undertook was the woody Guthrie Center having woody's raw materials. They are where people could go. Look at there was an energy. It had some impact of Spiegel's reaction at Tulsa is probably the reaction that most people had Tulsa was such curveball why Tulsa but then when you start to scratch the surface a little bit and you understand the crucible that Bob Dylan created himself out of. There's a lot of different fathers. Guthrie was certainly a big one for Bob for song ever wrote with about what he got three. Hey Hey what do you got three road? You Sound Party. Let's come along Europe blowing in the win and ten minutes. Is that right just like that? Where did it come from just came right out of that wellspring of creativity those early songs look almost magically written? There's a magic that in it's not siegfried and Roy Magic. It's different kind of penetrating magic. Back in the vaults Dylan's blood on the tracks notebooks. Little three by five nineteen cents. Each spiral notebooks. Credibly fragile in these notebooks Dylan wrote in the tiniest handwriting. Possible the songs that would end up on blood on the tracks. Dylan's spider read. Microscopic handwriting is unbelievable to work with blood on the tracks. I loved it now. One of the things I enjoy it was. It was very simple. That's the way things are really. They're basically very simple. The lot of people tell me they enjoy my i. It's hard to relate to that I mean people enjoying the type of pain. You Know Monitor. The Sun was shining our lane. One the NICI change it all. If I have to go the more you dig the more you realize you're gonNA keep taking you think you reach the end of the line because they really can't be that small stuff but there is. My Name Is Clinton. Halen write books about music goal history. I wrote the biography until I'm gone beyond the shades the George Kaiser Foundation Purchase Dylan's own personal archive for twenty two million dollars. I've been here a month doing research for the two volume biography. Essentially I've had to start again. Ah so much. But it's been documented what we didn't realize is that Dylan himself documented changes everything. It's like finding out that there aren't thirty. Seven Shakespeare Plays Fifty Shakespeare Artists and social thinkers and community activists. Might want be at a place called the Bob Dylan Center celebrating the music. And the words in the article Bob Dylan trying to maybe take it. The next step as a place for artistic exploration and expression bonds had to nontraditional Arca. There's not all of his her Monica's Dylan sit well at Harvard. I don't know there's something deeper about being here in Tulsa Oklahoma than in places that you would naturally assume Bob Dylan's archive might go. It goes back to this idea that this is a civic project. He sees himself as being part of a continuing. What about being a role model for so many of the people who are doing music today role model? What are you just knew? Why is it? Do you feel that? You're all along law to Bob Dylan. Archive occur comes to Tulsa was produced in collaboration with Olivia. Wear Shelton Robinson. I'm Francis mcdormand. And you've been listening to the keepers produced by the kitchen sisters. David Nelson N. Nikki Silva in collaboration with Nathan Dalton and Brandy how and mixed by Jim McKie funding for the keepers comes from P r x the National Endowment for the Arts Radio Topa NPR the Robert Cylinders Family Foundation the Franklin Legacy Fund and Listener contributions to the kitchen sisters productions deep thanks to the National Archives. The Society of American Arcus K. Q. E. D. klw kcrw Jennifer Farrell and Jennifer swatting special. Thanks to Ted Savary's for his music. Thanks to the many kitchen sisters interns. Who had an important hand in shaping the keeper series? Paulina Tano. Michael was Maske Taylor Simmons Charlotte Landis Lauren Scheckter bathing McMillan Katie mccutchen and Livia where there are many more kitchen. Sister Stories on our podcast. The kitchen sisters present and images music and more on our website kitchen sisters dot org. I'm Frances mcdormand. Thanks for listening to the keepers. The kitchen sisters present is part of PR XS radio. Tokyo curated network of extrordinary cutting edge. Podcasts check out all the shows at Radio Topeka Dot. Fm Home Maine problem. One on the voice now won't call you begging to be his son to me a break up break down gone down now com. Hi I'm happy to report that. One of my favorite PODCASTS is back on. March eighteenth with its third season. Everything is alive. It's been a while but it's been worth the wait if you haven't heard this show you must it's brilliant. It makes me laugh. It makes me cry. It makes me learn about things I've never considered in. Chile is the host and Creator with great performers. Like Jason Men. Soukous Josh Gone Delman. Tammy Saker and more. Here's a few of the objects you'll meet on. This season of everything is alive. Will why don't we have you introduce yourself for us? Well what's your name? My name is Ian. My name is Ian. I'm a mirror. I'm Louise I'm sure I'm William and I'm a pants just pants and not a pants I'm pans and you are shirt sell. My Name's Josh. I am a chainsaw. I don't think I have any friends. I mean chainsaw shows up at a party. You know something has gone awry. Are you just saying your name is Ian because my name is Ian Five? I'm not sure what my name would be. Otherwise what if no one is standing in front of you and then I wouldn't be talking? Do you like being ironed. Do I like being on. Yeah people don't really get ironed. Yeah people don't get ironed William. That's why people wrinkles never go away. You should try getting I and you think you'd look great. Take a listen and subscribe to everything is alive wherever you get your podcasts radio.

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Bob Dylan: About Man and God and Law 06:  Teachers

Rock N Roll Archaeology

39:37 min | 8 months ago

Bob Dylan: About Man and God and Law 06: Teachers

"Pain and beauty rebellion and unity nose and harmony celebrate the history of music with the rock and roll hall of fame twenty twenty inductions honoring depeche mode. The doobie brothers. Whitney houston nine inch nails. The notorious b. I g and t rex streaming november seventh on. Hbo max head. Over to pantheon podcasts. Dot com backslash. Survey dil out a few quick questions and be entered to win one of thirty limited edition. Hbo rock and roll hall of fame. Induction ceremony posters or one of thirty doobie. Brothers live from the beacon theater. Blu ray sets and tune in on november seven to be a witness to history the rock and roll hall of fame november seventh only on. Hbo max dillon was a revolutionary man. The way that the way that elvis free your body. Bob freed your mind. This is bob dylan about man and god and law blue. How do we keep balance. I can tell you in one word. Tradition is the vessel that holds past present and future compelling time forward but also anchoring it in what came before the great culture makers and artists. No tradition like the backs of their own hands in episode to the art of memory. We learned how bob dylan mastered the memorial art of past president. Future by setting down roots in greece. And how in. This context learning storing and teaching. Tradition is really all the same thing. What you know what you carry and what you teach. Well that's who and what you are. Now the responsibility for becoming the kind of self who not only carries tradition but actually embodies. The tradition one carries is of course the responsibility of the artists. The intellect philosopher the holy man or the musician who is called to the task but there was always at least one other someone upon whom this work depends how the teacher. Oh the street. Ask one of the teachers. Dillon has acknowledged publicly happens to come from the very same russian jewish american stock that brought the world tevi that launched men talking about tradition and balance who becomes a universal symbol for a nostalgic sense of particular kind of tradition in america and around the world. Blood on the tracks dylan said of what some call. His greatest album did consciously what i used to do. Unconsciously do it because of the technique actually had a teacher for him. That teacher was norman raven. The son of scholem. Aleph him the yiddish writer. Whose stories about tevi. The dairyman inspired one of broadway's most beloved musicals fiddler on the roof fiddler. On the roof which philip roth labeled shuttled kitsch and marc chagall. Whose painting the green violinist inspire the musicals title but didn't really like the show promoted a sensibility. That is all opposite of ravens. A painter who dylan stumbled upon near the roof of carnegie hall on the eleventh floor. The top of a building we're dylan had performed in what was billed as this first new york city concert organized by promoter is a young some thirteen years before for an intensive two month period. In nineteen seventy four dylan was the rockstar fiddler on the roof of carnegie hall studying painting the teacher. He says changed. His life as dylan describes it. He says you wanna paint. So i said well i was thinking about it. You know he said well. I don't know if you even deserve to be here. Let me see what you can do. So he put this vase in front of me and he says you see this vase and he put it there for thirty seconds or so and then he took it away and he said well. I mean i started drawing it and i couldn't remember shit about that face. I'd looked at it. But i didn't see any took a look at what i drew. And he okay. You can be up here and he told me. Thirteen paints to get well. I hadn't gone up their pain. I just got up there to see what was going on. I wound up staying for. Maybe two months sky was amazing. According to one of his most devoted students caroline shaw m- painter now living in la who's easel stood next to dylan's raven had a wide array of traditions that he imposed upon his pupils fittingly their shared in a traditional form. The form of the ten commandments number. One inspiration does not last. Stop in time to forget your likes and dislikes three. If it's not difficult it's not worthwhile four. You must be completely discouraged before you can progress. Five never examined a reason for painting. The answer can only be found in your work by other. Never paint with your mind. Never pay with your feelings paint and draw. Only what your i want. Seven don't be an art critic before you're an artist eight. It's better to be stupid then. Phony nine say one thing but make the most of it and ten never worry how it looks unsentimental and completely focused on the present moment of the i. That's why already heard that for dylan. The result of ravens tutelage was blood on the tracks. One of his most lush emotional landscapes in wash with color formed at a time of deep personal crisis so much so that is new creative. Point of view made it. So that according to dylan his own wife sarah could no longer understand him for one who didn't follow leaders who smashed the parking meters. Who's scattered the traditions of pop songs. In thousand different directions and who has shape shifted often as a musician not to mention painter writer. Dj and sculptor as well. Dylan's admiration allegiance to his teachers and their traditions and his ability to go as own way far beyond them. This forms the essence of his wi- antennas. I as a creator what we learn how we learn who we learned with. This is how we discover the world and our voice in it and become whoever i is. It's not just about how we fit into tradition. it's how we become it in for the great ones. it's about. How like an alchemist. We transformed teacher and teachings and tradition into something new. So get your hands out from under your desk where we can see them and get your pens and notebooks ready. We don't offer grades here. Not credit not even pass fail because we learned in the syllabus for episode five on love that there's no success like failure and failures no success at all. I'm steven daniel. Arnav open your textbooks to episode six. And welcome to bob dylan about man and god and law teachers and what do you look for this hope that you seek in. Where do you look for this lamp. That's burner for this oil gushing. You look for this. Candle it's glowing. Where'd you look for. This hope that you know is there are out there somewhere and your feet can only walk down two kinds of roads your is can we look to two kinds of windowless. Your nose can only smell two kinds of hallways. you can touch and twist and turn to kinds doorknobs. You can either go the church your choice. You go to brooklyn state hospital. He find god and search your choice. You find guthrie in brooklyn state hospital. And that's only my opinion. I maybe right or wrong. You find them both in grand canes. Sundown woody guthrie bob dylan made pilgrimages as guthrie lay in a hospital bed. Dying of al s dylan playing him songs. A lot of them. Would he's own songs. Dylan picking up and giving back tradition at the bedside of formative. Musical mentor during his days. In new york city dylan already adopted guthrie's vocal style and talking blues tropes had fashioned to kind of personal creation myth in which he had been around her a hobo runaway in the city. Box cars in on the dusty highways of mythic america dylan didn't just learn from guthrie. He imagined himself entering his heart. Traveling world completely. Hey hey what he you got three road. You sound party. That's come alone seeing haidari. it's time storm. It looks la diet and it's hardly man. Born guthrie is a hero charactered become a role model a fantasy and also quite literally a force of nature. He's the grand canyon for which there may be no more poignant symbol of the sheer fastness and possibility of america infinitely more powerful than that small dying man and sanitarium in new jersey. His frail body held something transcendent. An endless pallet to return to our painting. Metaphor with which dylan could color himself and the world. And here's the thing about great teachers of great students. There's no limit to the desire and hunger for discovering identity that the student places upon the teacher inhabiting teachers space possibility. Especially when young means escaping one's own limitations it's a new womb but a wound by choice creative womb in which to process just stated integrate oneself until an extension of that teacher is born and also in a process that can be a bit creepy and and citius times. The students sucks up all that was the teacher zone and owns it discipleship learning from a master or guru. To whom willing students give her or himself over is a hallmark of religious traditions. Jesus had his disciples so did socrates and the maharishi and jim jones and the lazy fake. It till you break it. Manipulators of cunanan loving teachers hateful teachers. We love to play follow. The leader students are feeders students. Breeders windshield wipers ro grew work to now. It's funny that george harrison remembered as perhaps the rock and roll seeker with the longest rock and roll spiritual cv in the west about the east. george harrison. Played along with dylan on dylan's own critique of guru hunting kit dylan praises mentors teachers throughout his one and throughout his career with an enthusiasm unmatched about any other topic. His acceptance speech for the nobel prize for literature was above all a loving students. Litany of appreciation for literary heroes devoid of cynicism overflowing with gratitude. What i received the nobel prize for literature. I got to wondering exactly how my songs related to literature. I wanted to reflect on it and see where the connection was going to try to articulate that to you and most likely it will go in a roundabout way. But i hope what i say. We'll be worthwhile and purposeful. If i go back to the donnie of it all. I guess i'd have to start with buddy holly buddy. Holly is the first artist to be praised here. An unlikely honor for the nobel stage. But this is dylan speech. So buddy holly is first on the agenda. But then we hear the tales of moby. Dick all quiet on the western front. And the odyssey dylan makes claim for himself as a traditionalist kind of vessel for all these. Learn from other masters transmitter of tradition lincoln. The chain yes dylan is made what seemed to be some surprising calls when it comes to parking meters and leaders the intensity and extremity of his entry into the vine yard fellowship for example jesus freak flag flying witnessed by the ferocity of those onstage. Jesus wraps we sampled in episode four before the law. These are frightening in their shirty about a single truth a single teacher. Even if the music generates many gems. And dylan's foray into the realm of kebab lubavitch hocism jewish tradition on the fringes carries. Its own lines of extremity. We happen to love and appreciate much about for bob. Social vision of the rebbe focus on nurturing unique value for every soul and on leaving the world more compassionate and kind than the way we found it. But it's still a kind of fundamentalism fundamentalism fundamentally deny in the end the trust of a disciple the trust the disciple places in a teacher. It exposes that student to be fully engulfed in all that the teacher knows and does and sees like a long wandering. The grand canyon requires a kind of faith in another person that transcends were perhaps anyone can give even apparent. I love roy. Well yeah well my dad. He didn't leave me too much. He's a very simple man and he didn't tell me was this he did say john. He said He says many things you know. It's possible to become so defiled in this world at your own mother and father will abandon you and if that happens god will always believe in your own ability to mend your ways thank you. There's the mercy of the divine teacher. That surpasses love. And yet for dylan. There do seem to be certain teachers who raise up the possibility of the master and guide to a level. that is nearly divine of cash. Bob dylan said in plain terms. Johnny was and is the northstar. Come along and ride train. Guide your ship by him. The greatest of the greats and now truly is what the land and countries all about the heart and soul of personified and what it means to be here and he said it all in plain english. I think we can have recollections of him but we can't really define him any more than we can define a mountain of truth light and beauty if we want to know what. It means to be immortal. We need to look no further than the man in black last with profound imagination. He used the gift express. All the various loss causes of the human soul. This is a miraculous humbling thing. Listen to him. He always brings you to your senses. He rises above it all. He'll never die or be forgotten even by persons not born yet especially by those persons and that's forever so beautiful. Spacious sky the amber waves of grain purple majestic mountains above the fruited plane in the sunny ds of winter snow from arizona san cherokee north carolina to tarpon springs florida america. It's time to be refreshed recall. The memory did not god shed his grace on the from see shining see. The land is big. The land is free. Sandon serve grass and tree. From cedar shines sea fittingly when bob dylan received a lifetime achievement award at the nineteen ninety-one grammy awards. It seems like nine thousand nine hundred. Ninety one really was several lifetimes ago he had just finished playing a raging riotous. The words of presenter. Jack nicholson version of masters of war. There are the buddy holly's and johnny cashes of the world and there's divine master and on the other side. there is such thing as an evil master. The worst teacher of awe. In what lifetime could what master what father figure what owner of culture be so corrupt so hateful and hurtful that dylan could wish that master dad that master the one he sings about right there. The master of awesome took pain in beauty rebellion and unity noise and harmony. Celebrate the history of music for the rock and roll hall of fame. Twenty twenty inductions honoring depeche mode. The doobie brothers. Whitney houston nine inch nails notorious. Big and t rex streaming november seventh on. Hbo max it. To pantheon podcasts dot com slash serving. Fill out a very brief survey to be entered to win one of the collectible rock and roll hall of fame. Two thousand twenty posters as well as the new doobie brothers live. blu ray sets. That's pantheon podcasts. Dot com slash survey is. Yes there's another side of dylan's masters another kind of warning. We live in an age of worshiped idols and knocking them down. Those statues of civil war heroes down to the ground. Even a statue of abraham lincoln got pulled asunder in portland recently status and statues statues and status when our sense of self become so identified with the master. We risk carrying so much about tradition that it gets static. It freezes it. Can blind us static reception the enemy of ritual and routine. Watch the parking meters. You might be building an idol. If you stay in that spot too long your status becomes your statue and then you may as well be dead. Where do we learn the difference between good and evil. The good master in the bad one well. From the radio of course sterling breaking through the stabbing from those big stations back east crackled into the childhood bedroom. Home of bob dylan and the iron range of minnesota from the road music from the fantasy of the road keep moving or at least imagine keeping moving to break the status of static but also freedom came from the bookshelf. Cracking open a book to break the board from his teachers from every kind of teacher. What about school itself. What about the boredom and the static of school. What can you learn there. Well we know every high school has a legendary english teacher right. A dead poet's society light in the darkness for teens. Who opened the door into say moby dick or all quiet on the western front or the odyssey. Dylan's was bona face. B j wolfson and. Both of them knew just what had happened. All those years ago in english class by by the shown new with a gun owner her shine. You remember that because he had been freezing class. I taught a lecture. Isn't there the lyric in there is about the mid west and learned in school. You can smell a pinewood bernie. You can earn schoolboy rain. He'd been again got near the if you wanna learn. All the batches was staying anne marisha. He's with bill just weeping. Rub they were. You can smell. The pine would burn. You can hear the school bell ring. Gotta get up near the teacher. If he came you wanna learn yet. Higher education or formal education at least sounds a bit like a plague to dylan once on behalf of tel aviv university. We wrote a letter to dylan's team asking if he'd like to receive an honorary phd. Well his manager wrote back. Bob's not accepting degrees right now. Guest that day at princeton still hold some echoes. There are so many examples of school having done student wrong. He's taught in school from the start by the rule that the laws are with them to protect his white skin to keep up his hates so he never thinks straight only pawn in their game. A self are deigned professors tongue too serious to fool spouted out that liberty is just equality in school equality. I spoke the word is if a vow But i was so much older then. I'm younger than that now. My back pages. The false lessons a falsely framed histories with god on our side or the fakery taught to little miss lonely in like a rolling stone. It's not clear that appearance did much better. Maybe more than all else simply limited in what they can teach the child about the way things are there. Blue eyed son sees too much tells us mods. Alright he's only dying and that his father the one remembered alongside. Jack nicholson in the masters of war. At the grammys while his father didn't know much only that he wrote psalm. Twenty seven which reads though my father and mother forsake me. The lord will receive me dylan as always refining and repackaging the traditions that he learns taking them from the mouths of masters or putting them in the mouths of masters baby's father is really best understood as the father senol good and kind and wise master persecuted mass to the effort kind master who suffers in the garden for all of the students this back and forth this wandering seeking out the northstar and then getting lost in second did they know law some die for some die for arts some dying plane. Crashes and some dive old-age allen ginsberg. We welcomed in episode one so they should ease the one who drove off in his golf cart. Into a cemetery. Dylan mused on salvation. He actually accompanied dylan to jack. Carro grave one thousand nine hundred ninety five during the off and on filming of rinaldo and clara mostly they talk about literary heroes and death turning pages passing time musing about tradition. What graveyards in paris went to see pulling near spur. So that's what's going to happen to you won't be in an unmarked grave aleida copy. How greedy woman of washes. Jesus fix the edgy supporters. Simon age jesus to carry his cross meets is very holy mother sensitive victim as close taken off turns naked falls for the third time this sheet the daughters of israel savant follow him. So what kind of student. And what kind of teacher is bob dylan. In the book of ecclesiastes king solomon rights and furthermore my son be admonished of making many books. There is no end and much. Study is a weariness of the flesh of books about bob dylan including the one. We are writing well. There is no end either. We admit it but something something about wisdom seeking something about working in and through. The work of dylan requires constant repetition. The way tradition itself requires repetitions. There is a joy in that immersion. That grand canyon of knowledge the teacher in his or her work what it represents the northstar that they offered now. This moslem the basement tapes grill. Marcus's surprising informative investigation. Into what wisdom. Message or cultural secret comes to take shape at big pink and what it means that a whole republic is being taught a senior level seminar in the secret history of the united states of america though never once is the syllabus stated. We don't read the constitution allow. We don't even mention that there's a vietnam war just outside the door. The lessons are played in between the lines and in between the notes but still according to marcus a whole world of rules and conversations and wisdom is laid bare for those who listen great. Teachers are mysterious faithful and they are not pedantic their pedagogy is them some. Say those who can't do teach that's wrong rather good teachers. They teach great teachers. They do. They draw students to want to sing or right like late. They do not tell they teach by example. The confidence that what they are saying is true and being present with the teacher grounded in truth. A student gets grounded in his or herself. Which is grounding in something greater than oneself as well. The teachers child is to hold. The consciousness of the student like the grand canyon might defended to be that north star and then to step aside while the fiddler steps to the road. Prepare where that wisdom explodes into something new tradition report. This game man our next episode is going to be terminal but we promise that it's not the end almost but not quite we'll be counting to one twenty even though no one is counting and will be holding our breath murder temptation resurrection and the purpose of it all. Yes it's dylan. And the dead episode seven becomes to find us for show song lists writing and more at man. God law dot com or on spotify apple podcasts. Or wherever you do you're listening. Please do rate subscribe and share. It really helps our project growth. We're proud to be part of the pantheon. podcasts network. Visit pantheon podcasts. Dot com tune into the very best of rock and roll podcasts. All in one place. I'm steven daniel ornoff. And this has been episode. Six of bob dylan about men and god and law. Thanks for coming at see you soon pitches. Hello and welcome to the song facts. Podcast my name is corey of flanagan. Here to talk to you about well. You guessed it song fax. This is a podcast where we are going to be talking to artists about all sorts of amazing topics whether it's their songs the moments that shaped the musically or stories. They have from their lives as musicians so really. No topic is off limits. We will have some names you will recognize and try and help introduce you to some that. You may not know yet as well. Everyone has a story to share. And we wanna help tell them all. Our aim is to give you the fan an insight into the minds and lives of these artists. But we won't stop there. We want to chat with producers engineers in our apps and people from all over the industry who can give us insight into how things were how they are where they are going but mostly. We're gonna talk about the songs. This podcast walks arm and arm with the amazing website. Song facts dot com. If you haven't been to the site and you are a fan of music. You must go has an abundance of information about songs artists. And just general good old fashioned fun music factoid for your ever inquisitive minds so join us every wednesday as we begin this journey down a path of creativity culture and personality. Maybe learn something and find a new voice that makes you swoon with light so go ahead hit subscribe. And let's enjoy this musical journey together. Issue sambas right dylan was a revolutionary man. The way that the way that elvis freed your body. Bob feed your mind. Bruce springsteen wants described bob dylan. He had the vision and the town to expand the pop song until contain the world. We agree bob dylan about man and god and law a new podcast. On the pantheon podcast network tells the story of how bob dylan sparked a revolution of the spirit and why it matters. Were exploring history. Hardest st philosophy literature pop culture and religion woven through a deep. Listen to bob. dylan's music. Join us for a different theme. Each episode memory love salvation teachers and many more in addition to conversations with thinkers and culture makers talking about god the universe and everything in the age of dylan proposed than half a century. Trying to understand. Bob dylan songs has been like unfolding the criss crossing lines of a map of the world. We're going to take a shot at reading those maps particularly in a moment or the world. We thought we knew. Seems like uncharted territory to open up. Our eyes dylan sings not only to see where we really are but to see where we need to go. I'm your host dr steven. Daniel arnault a scholar of religion. A lover music. And a student of bob dylan just like you. Listening subscribe at man. God law dot com pantheon. Podcasts dot com. Or wherever you do. You're listening or proud to be a part of the pantheon podcast network. Join us for bob dylan about man and god and law.

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Bob Dylan is the Death Metal of Folk Music

Caffeinated Humor: Sarcastic Comedy For The Masses

11:01 min | Last week

Bob Dylan is the Death Metal of Folk Music

"Welcome to caffeinated humor where sarcastic humor and massive amounts of coffee slash caffeine. Go hand in hand before we get started. Do me a favor. Subscribe and follow the podcast. Listen to as many episodes as you can be sure to visit the show. Notes check out the affiliates and help support the podcast. let's get on with the show Everyone welcome to caffeinated humour you know. There is something about the music that existed. When you first got into music that is always gonna make it your favorite perfect example. I grew up as a kid in the eighties and the eighty s. I've always thought had some better music. However you talked to somebody who was raised in the fifties in the seventies in the sixties in the nineties. Hell there's even some some brain dead millennials. That are convinced that the greatest music ever happened happened in like two thousand two. But here's my question named one star. That was around that came to prominence in the two thousand and is just like an unbelievable star that everybody loves lot of dead air going on here people. I can hear the crickets from here. I'm not even back in the eighties. I was a fan of madonna. But then she became a little bit too self-indulgent for herself but her still stands. I mean is still decent stuff and the newest irrigation of her in the beginning lady gaga was trying so desperately to be madonna. And then. here's the really interesting part turns out. She's wildly talented. So all her talent began to come out and guess what she started distressing like a normal person. Now the difference between the two. I think that she believes in her. Self-confidence the problem with madonna. Madonna questions. Yourself way too much to the point that she begins to see. I've got to change myself. I have to reinvent myself. What about the old you. What about the you that. Put you on the map. But i think that's where a lot of stars go through is that they don't either hang on to what they were and beat that until it's dead or they keep trying to come up with something new about themselves. You know maybe bandana would still be popular among everybody. If she had stayed with who she was back. When you know take a good look mick jagger. I think the man's in his eighties. He's still cranking it out packing stadiums. His show is still good and guess what he still dresses relatively the same still the same dude. That is the epitome. That's you gotta think about that as the goalpost it's like that's where you're trying to spike the ball whereas at any given moment madonna could have simply said here's the goalpost and spiked it. She's one of those stars. That was maybe not an elvis. But she's in that group. I think elvis. What made elvis the wild worldwide sensation. That he was was that there was really nobody else that had ever attained that kind of fame before so he was the first one and i saw documentary the other day about the appropriation of black culture. And i think it had a lot of things to do with the people around him. I don't think he had an opinion. One way or the other about it but you take a good look at the guys who are explaining about elvis in his music in its you know. They're they say when it has to do with the the white influences is beautiful in pristine the pristine blue grass. And the you know the angelic sounds and then every time they talk about the blues you know the gritty dirtiness of the blues and the filthy mindless lustful. -ness of the it's everything they had to say about. The blues was shitty. That's okay but you also have to take into account what was like back. In those days you know the opinions and unlike many millennials they. You can't erase that because to erase it is to almost try to act like it never happened and that's exactly how it happens again. You know to forget. History is to repeat it well. How many times do they want to do this. But getting back to music and quite honestly if there was anybody who was four hundred years ago madonna would have been one of the more prominent slave owners out. There wouldn't have given her shit but not sure how we got off on this tangent. But i think if you take all of that there's a weird angst that comes into music because some people will simply hear it for the lyrics the other people will fear it here it for what that does in their soul and it might create a little something and all of a sudden you know. Somebody's listening to a song. Most beautiful love ballad. They've ever heard and then somebody else listens to it. And it's like this is their marching orders to go out and blow up a bank so i think it affects everybody differently and i think if you wrap all that together just the the wild range of emotions that music can bring up it. Brings you to days episode. Bob dylan is the death metal of folk music on today's caffeinated humor. So i hate folk music as a general rule. When i enter starbucks who i always think of starbucks is going through that adolescent crappy music phase my day. Just gets that much better. Because oh the sixties folk music is on. It's a lot like having a mild case of the flu. Fill a little off now. Tastes right and you're always a little bit nauseous and the back your head. He wanna fart. 'cause you may shit yourself coffee specifically a strong guatemalan. Roast has a strong enough taste and not to be bothered by that shit and some things never change about coffee. But i think most would agree with me. Bob dylan certainly had a kind of a certain window of listen ability and it was a long time ago that window so the window has not only closed but the new tenants have nailed. It shut boarded up not without a reason. I watched a movie the other night. That had bob dylan in it for those. That have never seen it. It's a little slice of heaven called masked and anonymous and on the internet movie database. Imdb dot com. Here's the description a singer whose career has gone on a bad downward spiral is forced. Make a comeback to the performance stage for a benefit concert. Am i wrong or is that bob. Bob dylan's career. Possibly the most. Ill conceived poorly done film in the history of hollywood and also including the blair witch project in that whole the only thing missing on that. That movie was shaky cam on masked and anonymous. The part i don't get is that john goodman was in it and i mean he was in the big lebowski. For god's sake the guy is hollywood gold. And so was jessica lang. The woman is pure sleeper hotness. If you've never seen the postman always rings twice. Take a little break. Go look at. The girl was just sex on a stick now. The two of them should own at up to solid movie. So why does the movie suck after much. Thought i keep coming back to dillon. The mumbling poet himself dylan is synonymous with the sixties the whole misguided decade and the thoughts behind it. It's always interesting to talk to a true seventies hippie. I mean they'll tell you about how they change the world but if you press them for details they tend to get a little sullen and then they slip out to go get high and of drugs. Expand your mind. What are the people that take them. Always talk about the same exact shit now as part of my extensive research on folk music at about fifteen twenty minutes on youtube. I am currently listening to dylan's times. They are a changeon on youtube. It's a solid song. You can even make out. Most of dylan's words. But that is old. Dylan or rather young dylan. Old dillon. also known as now dylan. Sounds like he's got about a half dozen marbles in his mouth and a sense of timing is just gone. One mumbled line runs into the next without pause and even the piano players having trouble keeping up all right enough with dylan rant. It's almost too easy. Here's a poem. I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness starved hysterical naked dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix angel headed hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly khan connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night. Yeah that's kind of shit the sixties offered. That's how by allen ginsberg widely reputed to be the finest poet of the sixties. Suddenly the sixties. Make sense if that's your finest poet. I'm stunned by how badly ginsburg needed a beating. For this self-indulgent crap that's a quote by the way and i was incidentally thrown out of my college comparative literature class for stating that exact quote. Some hippies specially college professors have no sense of humor. I think my biggest issue with gulf music is the folks that make the music whereas the music itself. There's more than a couple that are bad. Don't tell anyone. I said that though. It's kind of embarrassing. It's like saying like ballroom dancing time for some coffee. Thanks again for listening. Do me a favor. Follow and subscribe to the podcast. Listen the more episodes. Click on the episode name. Look at the show. Notes can have a little quote for me. But also the affiliates you'll be able to get the caffeinated humor book from amazon. Got the new one coming out soon. That'll be book number seven. I appreciate it. Thank you much have a great day.

madonna elvis Bob dylan dylan mick jagger starbucks gaga Madonna jessica lang hollywood john goodman Old dillon flu youtube dillon bob Dylan allen ginsberg ginsburg khan
Mount Rushmore of Rock n Roll with Dr Scott

Set Lusting Bruce: The Springsteen Podcast

1:32:11 hr | 1 year ago

Mount Rushmore of Rock n Roll with Dr Scott

"China's ally kind of Set the criteria was number one Was There Influence And Cultural Impact on popular music number two was timelessness of their work slash longevity number three popularity number four their body of quality work and five. I wrote uniqueness. Hello everyone and welcome to a new episode of settlers sick Bruce Your podcast all about Bruce springsteen his music and mostly as fans I am your host Jesse Jackson and joining me is multi visits a member of the settlers thing Bruce Beloved guest list Dr Scott Hey Scott how you doing? How are you doing great? Quake could talk to you. I'll it's always fun to talk to you. We always have a good time and so Since we've talked though you've had a few changes haven't you got a few changes Biggest one of Will back to the east coast after almost coming up on twenty years now now living in Florida And Need to guess to be near my East Coast routes I was. It was calling. Who was calling for me and So that's been a big change But so far really really loving it here. How are the The family adjusting to Florida instead of California. Good Yeah Think it's been an just uprooting family. Yeah everyone everyone's doing great. Thanks for asking. How's your family? We're good we are all going well You and I were just catching up before we hit record. I I am in the middle of job. Search twenty twenty but so far things are going. I've got a few irons in the fire as they say So it's good You don't Linen Chris or doing well So yeah so far. It's it's things are going really well So we figured like Dr Scott and I are like okay We could just talk and be entertained for like thirty forty minutes him and I just talking but I don't know how entertaining it would be to the audience so we kicked around a couple of ideas and he had a lot of great ideas and we'll probably visit them another time but the thing that struck me I is he said. What about the rock and Roll Mount Rushmore? And I said tell me more so Dr Scott. I'm GonNa let you kind of set. The what your thoughts were what were doing. And then share the boundaries. We put among ourselves on how to pick this okay so three years ago on much. Fortieth birthday my Bucket List One item on my bucket list. wants to go to the rock and Roll Hall of fame In Cleveland I shows My closest family and friends all guys trip and we spent a few days In Cleveland went to the rock and Roll Hall of fame and at Dinner. One evening We I came up with this Game to propose to the table and it was so fascinating and interesting that three years later I stole an asking people about it It's so interesting people thought. And if I I basically said okay so you know. We're here at the rock and Roll Hall of fame. Nobody we We were talking before. Jesse. How You know with rock and Roll Hall of fame the criteria so ambiguous and in terms of. Who's on and WHO's not on it. And sometimes we go rhyme or reason. I can name so many groups that didn't get in or still not in the other people who have very head-scratching while they're in But I basically said okay. You have the not rushmore and in your own Mount Rushmore and I own in just getting their opinion but with rounders. Who would be in your not rushmore of Solo artists? And then who would be in your map wash ashore of them and I'm going to stop Air Gun just because I I wanNA talk about this more but I really love that parameters because when I was working on mine before we had kind of set up the rules I was like how do I just pick one beetle? Like you would think okay. She you know John Lennon but really like Paul McCartney and like you can. I put both of them on there. So when you sent the like four individual artist four groups I went okay. You felt my pain from a distance Dr Scott and we're helping me out so continue on. Yes okay so so I felt it was important to also keep some curia of sort to But not limited to but but but give some criteria or else it would be kind of an all over the place discussion and as. I know that we've talked about earlier podcasts. kind of differentiating between Beth and favorites. And this definitely you know the way I asked people to approach. This question was definitely leaning more toward back like who would be in that. Mount Rushmore versus personal favorite. Where you know you they you know Do It for me. That would be too. Ambiguous in two grey So Electron of Set the criteria was Number one was their influence And Cultural Impact on popular music number two was timelessness of their work slash longevity number three popularity number four their body of quality work and size. I wrote uniqueness and some examples of that were you know did this solo artist or band. Did they have a unique sound Performance ability their present stage President The just the the what they call the you know as they they'd be factor Kind of like five is kind of like some intangible And that was that was. That was how I frame dish. And then We spent You know the next two hours and I do think that it is almost impossible to limit it to four people and even limiting it to eight. You realize you're leaving people out. Oh Yeah when you start putting this and you you you list. People you feel are influences. You immediately can get ten without even thinking right you just go. Hey here we go and so I imagine your discussion over a meal. You guys had a lot of give and take right the water of give and take and what we agreed to do was to walk away from the dinner with basically the criteria was We gotta be like a consensus where at least we got some point where we could like. Walk away from the table thing like I can. I can understand that but it was it. Was You know there was definitely some debate? Obviously and also you know a lot of the debates. Were you know just like like you know? Well if this person could be on and how can you not put this person on and also even very similar to the criteria for little rock and Roll Hall of fame is like you know and we'll get to this one when we start process but it's like you know also what really in someone's mind like constitutes like rock and roll or like popular music? 'cause there's certainly artists in the rock and Roll Hall of fame that are are not like certain countries singers Whitney Houston just got Inducted for the two thousand twenty class So dot also interesting but Yeah it was really a lot of fun debates but I will say and just not really a boy. Where per se but Cleveland I switched one of my answer so I hope so for for free. I had the fame the fame. Yes yeah and by the way Teaser Dr Scott and I are going to do a separate episode for our patron only feed where we're going to talk about the rock and Roll Hall of fame latest inductees so if you're a patriot. Member look for that. And we will discuss more about Whitney Houston and a few other things but okay I just wanted to know that Just in terms of the criterium had to kind of make this clear away. 'cause I already like When when when when I start the game sometimes I feel so and even included this in our discussions part of the podcast so Whether or not I take these people I was just giving you know Jesse giving some examples so for the purposes of this like Bruce recounted a solo artist guess Same with Tom. Petty even though the Tom Petty heartbreakers eastern Dan rea and Paul. But someone like Paul Simon on a Phil Collins People who have had you know Been afforded bans or Duos as the case with Simon and Garfunkel had such a careers and are actually in the rock and Roll Hall of fame. for a solo artist and a group. Those you could put uber or yeah. That's really well again. Thing is I sent out on social media both on twitter and facebook and so after Dr Scott. Go through our choices. We have fan feedback. We have listeners back. And so we're going to share that too and I haven't done this yet. Dr Scott but I think I'm going to take everyone's selections including ours throw it in a spreadsheet and then Kinda pick the top four of each and then show that on the facebook page that here was you know but this is what the consensus of the small sample size mysticism. All right. Do you WANNA go first. You want me to go first. We're GONNA do individuals first. You're the you go say okay. You want to do so. Lord let's see Selo first place. Okay so I think pretty much. It's funny all the bands worked out. The bands are probably in order the Lord of of not sure if they aren't border so I guess he's in no particular order number one. I'm GonNa just a minute. He's going to give one and I'm GONNA give one back and forth in that way we're going to discuss about each of them. So that's kind of the format so that's why just as we produce on the air so go ahead you're in no particular order first choice. Is Elvis Presley? Can there is The phrase first ballot hall of fame. And I think you know I think that is in in fact. I'll go ahead and say he's on my list to And for various reasons Go ahead and share a little bit why you picked him. He's the king. You know When you look at the criteria you know popularity Bhatia were. He was so immense. I mean this. Is You know. Preview tools And you know what was little founding with Elvis nothing? He wouldn't not that. There was any any doubt but didn't write his own music Which was also kind of a a one of those intangible factors when you talk about body of work and the whole thing he's just You know but like even to this day. I know that he's like Paul Simon's a hero which a lot of people don't know that Hence the title of his most successful album graceland which actually served as a metaphor for the whole lot project on he. Was you know he when you think of the pioneers? And he he was he was everything you know he You know he was Rebellious He danced in a way yet a stage performance. I mean no one was doing that for him. and It's just To me it's just a a no-brainer. You know yeah he is I think the iconic Rockstar so so tons of records performed live went and made movies. it There are in an alternate world. And I've shared this before. The the rumor was that Barbara streisand wanted Elvis Presley to play the Chris Christopherson part and the star is born remake and colonel. Parker would not let him because He he says Elvis gets top billing no matter what he does and Barbra streisand's people are like no percent saying gets the billing and I often wonder what would've happened because I think not that Chris. Cassava wasn't wonderful but I think Elvis would have acted the heck out of that role and who knows it may have changed the course of his life. We may not have left. Lost Him so early so. I totally agree. Elvis was on my list so absolutely I love the casting. What if factor? You never knew that three. Yeah And also Just from time to time all kind of throw out I of I did I did some research of the top. Fifteen selling artisanal timing terms of album so yeah and I'll be number storage Put in context. Yeah my son Chris on grew up you know very much into hip hop and rap went through a stage where he loved Metallica and we were on a family vacation he was maybe ten or eleven and we went to Memphis and we went through graceland and he became obsessed with Elvis and he you know I mean he just he you know he just recognizes the beauty and the power of that music so absolutely A he would be on my list. Well I'm going to pick one and then we'll let you discuss so. I had Chuck Berry on my list for the reason. Why is I think in a lot of ways? Chuck Berry invented rock and roll. I know there's a lot of discussion you But I think the amount of the guitar playing and the music He performed forever. There're ICONEX songs that he wrote and performed so I picked Chuck Berry One of my people on that mountain. Well he is not on my mountain but if I had a v spot he would be on the mountain. So He's my first honorable mention your of parole for all the reasons that you just said. There's no argument or debate with him. truly one of the pioneers An incredible icon credit again could easily made the list and literally he would if I had a v selection and then the the stories you hear of him showing up that Gig with just guitar and whoever is the band would be the backing band with his confidence slash arrogance. Of course they why songs and they're right. Like I know Bruce in the eastern band early days back Tim up and I would love to see that. That would be amazing. All right. What's your second and that goes back to the future remind you this. Is your cousin loving loving very new? Sound you've been looking for well missing through. Yes absolutely number two on the. Dr Scott. Rushmore is Bob Dylan. Yeah so just so. Everyone knows Dr Scott and I did no discussion in advance. Dylan's on my list to so take it away Dr Scott on your reasons behind picking Bob though. I'm sure the audience is going. Yeah I mean what you know for for people like Bob and Elvis and chuck. It's You Know I. I don't know how much how much they We we have to really get into the to the why. Not a very controversial choice but The most prolific songwriter of in American pop music the most covered artists in the history of Pop. Music Really was it's come a pioneer for say of really the kind of the Greenwich Village Singer. Songwriter error And how do you have of Mount Rushmore without his faces? One of the stunts on Just you know he's he's an icon And the the the body of work and And you know through through the whole bootleg series of also. Just rediscover you know. Just how many songs he had in his vault which is very bruce like and You know the Have you ever read the the autobiography that he wrote? I just brilliant. Now I what can you say about my list? Yeah Yeah Yeah I think it was like volume one in two and a and I mean just horrendous live performer especially in his later years literally. Sometimes we'll hang out for an hour not say one more to the audience. Maybe play one hit song and then leave the stage but So one of my best friends. Sam Who I talk about here. Often is a huge dylan fan. In fact he would put dylan over springsteen and he has seen Dylan multiple times and he talks about that that Sometimes it's a good show. Sometimes it's an aunt show But you never know he goes because there is that you're going to get lightning in a bottle And once Dylan did three days in a row here in Dallas the the House of Blues. So he did a three shows in a row and Sam took vacation day so he could attend all three shows and Any talked about now. You Know Sam seen him fairly recent and he says it's you know it's a pretty the never ending tour. Something is I think what he calls it. He says it's a pretty sure. Set lists but In it but he's Dylan and and I think sometimes like I will pull out song lyrics and repeated as if it was poetry. And you're just struck at the beauty of the words and the amount of beauty and spirituality You know Forever young is something that I just think is amazing and that wish to someone And you know who in this generation didn't saying blowing in the wind in your high school choir right an an an and the amount of people that have covered tongue like that or Hard rain's GonNa Fall Um Times. They are a change in how about I. You know it's funny. It's like you know all be looking music with the Plymouth Song or a show with somebody and you know like there's so many songs that he's written that you know even like like pretty big music fans don't know what People Are Times. I'll say like you know Who Who wrote all along the watchtower it everyone's buckled Jimi Hendrix unless nope right now Who wrote You know forever. Young wasn't Rod Stewart. Now you know and You know it's And like phone like all on the watch tower like that's like an encore song for bands like Pearl Jam and Dave Matthews And you know what can what can what can you say he's just He's he's an iconic figure and lyrically. I we put him and Paul Simon to near are the two best lyricist In popular music. So it poetry. Yeah I'm right there with you and just the idea that We talk a lot about this When you go to Bruce Show. His catalog is so diverse. That there's always going to be a song that Gosh I wish he'd played this one and not just obscure you know besides buried in the third district tracks. I mean there are great songs that other people would be part of their regular set list that he just even though he's doing a three hour show a three hour plus show. He doesn't have time to put it on. So in Dillon would be the same thing are going to give me another one since I have dylan as well okay I know a huge shock. Your where your audience is GonNa have to pause to compose himself but Mr Bruce Greenfee Yeah Yeah So what can you say? Yeah you know I. It's interesting is ill. I would I was kind of surprised at was that when I posed this question to you know my birthday Party crew which was like eight. Guy That there was you know an couple people. There were pretty big springsteen fans the rest. You know you know your average I guess run of the mill. Kind of Bruce Bruce Fan There was no debate with it which I found very very interesting. That is in like Yeah I. I thought I was going to have to get into like you know defensive mode and like you know give a whole you know I'm speech up like why I feel this way and there really wasn't An argument was consensus met. Me Right away You know I I think it's when you factor in You know I think music was going through a real transition at the time and you know obviously the famous cuts in the future of rock and roll and his name is Bruce springsteen quote and When you take the body of work right when you take the people I hope at this point understand is like so many people now coming out and saying that like he is like they're God like Eddie's editor and you know just just recently Dr Scott Jason is villain twitter. Someone said WHO's a someone famous that was or a musician that's helped you. And he said for springsteen and people like what's that story we WANNA that Jason You know he has He did not make my list Just because I I was trying to do not obvious right And and it's what's funny when we read people's comments a few people said this is my personal Mount Rushmore not my not for historical purposes. I really I'm certainly not going to argue with Bruce. Because Hello I do a Bruce Springsteen podcast of you know I don't man's museum I and I'll just go ahead mention. I picked buddy. Holly is my fourth one Just because of the significance of the of what he did early One of the first to write his own music some of the producing the in for the amount of how quickly he is career ended due to that tragic plane crash and the amount of influence he had on the Beatles and the other things this this I think he is one of the building blocks of rock and roll so I went a little more historical than I did. Modern and so I I just when I hear That'll be the day or you know And and other songs I just go this guy. What if he had not died? What would he have done? Would he have been someone like Sinatra or a dylan or you know even a you know a springsteen as he grew in As worked as a as a Paul Anchor someone so Out of sympathy our guests just out of love and kind of a little bit of sentimentalist. I picked buddy. Holly is my fourth person. All right have you to every day. That'll be the day Yeah everything you said is true I can't get argue. It's definitely an icon and Definitely going a little more historical there but again this is like what it's like. The Mount Rushmore Guy would say Just the one thing I just wanted to add about Bruce Because again we could again the PODCASTS. We could talk about him for. You didn't hire time but I think for me Had he not hide and now it's become a kind of a gigantic now coming up on twenty years now. Kind of a resurgence of his career with the rising elbow Where he kind of Rediscovered that Hey I can still do this. Rock and roll thing like I think his it. If it's really kind of ended with Tonj owed What an incredible body of work toll people that point but I think because he's still going strong and writing music like wrecking ball album and western stars and magic and you know and and all the intangibles the greatest live performer of all time And you know His his Broadway show and how many people can do that back. And the fact that he can literally In any country in the world Play to hundreds of thousands of people who know the songs and know the lyrics to every song. I mean just all you have to see his watch the DVD BLU ray of his show from Barcelona. I mean they. You know so But no I- buddy holly is a is a musical icon. Yeah I respect the choice and you know what I think is interesting. Dr Scott is the idea and that is one of the reasons why I I love Bruce is he is continuing to reinvent himself. He is continuing to do different things and So I think you're right. I think that if after tunnel of love you know and he'd gone he you know he took that ten year the dark years and then had not come back I don't know it may be a different but to think about that that they take that ten year break and then come back and you could make the argument. I and some of his more powerful albums. You know wrecking Bom Magic I think Western Stars Are and you're competing against born to run darkness on the edge of town. I mean you know born in the USA. You're talking about massive Albums that are influential and commercial success and you can have the discussion that they stand up. And depending on your your Phantom you may not know. They're going to be a lot of people that say nothing will ever be darkness. I get it but you can have. They won't laugh at you if you try to make. That argument has a lot about his his popularity well-set well said all right my friend. Who's your fourth okay? So my four with when we get to Some of your wonderful fans entry which I had real Such such enjoyment reading reading. Everyone and I wanNA thank everybody also for You know giving their submission That was that was a lot of fun to read It's plausible shocking. And I when we go through them again I'll I can feel if someone had that the list but I- Michael Jackson at number four. I he did not make my list but he. I gave him serious thought. And you know what I like about your and I'm Gonna I'm GonNa read into something and there is a symmetry of you picked to quote unquote classic artists and to modern artist. You separated it with Elvis and Bob. And then Bruce and Michael and I don't know if you did that deliberately but you can I see the beauty of that and Michael is I- conic. That is a great choice. He you know it's like again you know we're not gonNA go obviously down the road of Someone's personalized and you know Ah that was also a factor as is just completely separating the music from the the human being in his everyday life sober not to give it to stop but when you look at his. I mean He. Was You know for a child of the eighties? Which was I mean he? He was the Beatles all wrapped up into one package You know obviously is the number one selling album I think thriller still the number one selling album full time You know when he passed away He had booked. I think fifty shows that he was going to be performing I I saw His show in Vegas Couple years ago and you know probably do about the twenty five or thirty of songs and you get one after the other. It's like Oh my God. Oh my God Oh my God on the guy and it was kind of walked out of there with like I can name like fifty songs of the top had like they didn't play And you know he really when you think of his influence in popular culture on you know the the the most when you think of like MTV Michael and And I I would you know that. That was another one where like in terms of when I first asked. This question wasn't any debate without either And kind of looking at the list of you know everyone entries. We'll have to go throughout I don't I I. I think there may have been one of the person who selected him which I was surprised but to me You know is album sales. His popularity his ICONIC NECE is Performance ability and the last thing. I'll say about Michael is actually had to do some Internet research for this I wanted to know with Michael. Like did he write his own music. Did you write his own Leroy? And what even impressed me more In kind of prepping for this podcast was he wrote. Every song lyrics yet does not know how to play one musical instrument which singer Songwriter Myself. Almost impossible I. It's almost impossible. Yeah and I was blown away and it was also like okay like this cemented now. Like he's like I can't so what he would do is like you would like for example. He would go up through his guitar player in the studio and he would sing every single. No that the tar player should play. He would sing every note of horn section play or a synthesizer he would do it all vocally and I that that looming away blew me away Also from a stage performance aspect and presence aspect mean. Put the one of the greatest just just dancing ability alone Unbelievable and So Michael Michael Michael of my solo artist not rushing. And you're right. You have to separate the personal life but when you think of that motown special when he did the Moon Walker Jean. Yeah we are the world and And we talked about. I talked about this before the you know the Jackson. Five were the Beatles After the Beatles right I mean there were. You could not get You know there were no one bigger. And then when the Wall came out and seventy nine it was massive. There's no way no one at any record company and I have heard Michael did believe this but no one else in the world that said okay. This is going to. We'd be lucky if we get close to hitting what off the wall did much less surpassing it the way it did And the iconic songs And it is just absolutely and a Similar to Elvis a what could have been if not an early death and you know how much more music did he have to make an end to produce so I think a great choice absolutely I I love that 's Okay you've got Elvis Presley Bob Dylan Bruce springsteen Michael Jackson I have Elvis Presley. Chuck Berry Buddy Holly Bob Dylan. Do you have any? Do you have one or two honorable. Mentions you wanted to cover. And then we'll move over to groups. I'm GONNA sit a very very quickly Berry of the mentioned Gave some thought to Sinatra. Not just a really interesting Person Talk about which we can which which we can talk about on when we start kind of a rock and Roll Hall of fame series. But he's not in the Rocco Hall of fame but other people like him who are just you know like singers in performers. Who Never wrote a song? I take someone like Whitney. Houston who I guess. Want shooting get. She wasn't a first ballot. Or but I guess maybe because it was more copy. You know more Eighties video stuff So that was. That's an interesting one which we were. What? What are your thoughts on Sinatra? I mean yeah I think you know I had a similar discussion with Ray Charles. You know like is he is. Should we include Ray Charles For a lot of the reasons Sinatra or Johnny cash I mean Sinatra was everything and And the amazing thing is johnny cash is in the hall of fame. The Cure is all over the place. Other people are considered Elton John. Paul Simon Johnny Cash Stevie wonder Prince. Billy Joel David Bowie Ray Charles and Jimi Hendrix. Yeah perfect choices all worthy I would agree with almost all of yours effect. I would agree with all yours. The two I gave serious thought to because it's an all boys club my You know my four choices and I debated and I couldn't figure out who I would drop but to add either Linda Ronstadt or aretha Franklin aretha rhythm and Blues but Linda Ronstadt in the seventies Was You know rock and roll? She was pop. She won't cover then. She went on to do her the anything she wanted to do. She did I WANNA do covers of classic. You know ballots okay. Let's do it I wanNa do you know of songs on my father from my My Hispanic background. Let's do it. Oh I've decided I want to do rock and roll again and you know what the Neville brothers. Let's get Aaron Neville the sing with me okay. Let's do it She is just an icon. And if I was going to as Bruce said break up the boys club I would be tempted. But I'm like okay. Who who would I drop off? And I couldn't even. She's even on the great one of a great obscure of Paul. Simon Song called Under African skies yes A great duet with Linda And just anecdotally The reason why just the way you are is on the stranger which Billy Joel didn't WanNa put on the album which he creditor for having a woman's touch because I think who like I like number one hit song She was in the recording studio The same according to he was when he was making a stranger and Linda. Ron Sutton phoebe. Snow came by the studio and he played them the song. And they're like you have to put the fall on the go and he said I don't know it's a little schmaltzy at. It's not kind of rough enough. And they said you have to put this on the song and Billy says Oh what am I know and it was like I number one. That's awesome great and then aretha obviously Can't argue with that with Linderoth. You could also say Some people that came to mind just two more were Carole King and Madonna. I those were on my list too because in the perfect choices right because carole king She wrote the early. You know when you look at that So yeah I I absolutely. In fact she was on my list. So Great God that was fun. Now we're GONNA talk to groups so same criteria. I'll kick us off this time. We're not chur dish. I'm not a shocker. But my I was the Beatles and for everything. We'll put up a bold choice. Yes Oh yeah you know when you think about the in years? And that's really all they were is they were such the sixties and the amount of iconic music. They made the amount of influence they had on culture and society and You know because everything goes back to Bruce. Because this is Bruce springsteen right he said the iconic things in his childhood seeing Elvis on the Ed Sullivan show and then seeing the Beatles on Ed Sullivan show. And he's like I wanted to be the Beatles I didn't want to you know And and so I just think that is In like I said certainly not controversial Kind of Duh but it is I mean and one of the major groups that have individual members of the show of the band as well both I and I don't know if all four of them but I know John. Paul are in at As individual performers as well not to do a Google Harris citizen I the the all things must pass. Album is fun. Believable yes and all four of them went onto incredibly Prolific Solo All prolific solo careers And obviously we lost John Too soon. Nineteen Eighty You know it was was. It was a really tough time Kennedy was assassinated. And you know there's this big morning going on at that time and he's he's four guys from Liverpool with these you know. Just stay look like working class guys. You know they weren't these matinee. Looking Hero you know fabricated You Know Stars. They were working class guys And I think that you know that Ed Sullivan show the influence that you've mentioned how I'm Bruce I. It's it's it was people like you know Bruce. And and and billy at an you know who who literally watching it and said I can. Do you know like they they they. They write their own music. They sing their own songs. You know it's it's it's just they are they are perfection and when you look also you know like one of the groups that is not on my list. I will talk about. Why like for this reason They they don't stay in that you know. I WanNa hold your hand She's got a ticket to ride kind of bubblegum pop. Land that they did. I mean when you look at from Rubber Soul Revolver Pepper Abbey road natural mystery tour Let it be album. I mean what they were doing in the studio very similar to what Brian. Wilson's do it in the studio Just great seeing the love and mercy Movie about Brian Wilson where He's talking to his brothers and he's like you know you guys go on tour to you guys go to Japan. I'm GonNa stay home and I promise you when you come back. I have a masterpiece the Beatles or doing in the album in the studio and they come home and he has all the songs for pet. Sounds done Badly and So also like you know you talk about like just the trajectory of their career and you know how many like their their psychedelic phase and walking. I mean they're low hand down the number one slot. Yeah absolutely similar to like you know first of all how fame absolutely All right. So what's your number one and as we said no particular order I suspected that so I'll let you. Who's your second choice okay? So what would the rolling stones at number two and I don't really know What needs to be said Where you know I'd have to make a like an argument for this Personally I mean I really really like them. If I was doing a Hebrew lists. They wouldn't have been on mine But I can't i. How do you do this list without putting The Rolling Stones on and You know Unbelievable sound incredible body of work on great live performers Great Front Man Just just timeless music and you know. They're the only band that I mean. I. I don't. I think that I think is like the Beatles and then everybody else in terms of bands but like they're the only band where I for people try to make an argument that they're better than the Beatles so I mean that's got to account for something. I completely disagree But to me. That was a that was a no brainer. I bow with Choice so my number two is the rolling stones for all the reasons you said and even the phrase they are not one of my favorite bands. it's not that. I don't like them and win. A rolling stone comes on the radio or you know comes to mix I. I'm I enjoyed is just not someone that I've invested a lot of time in experience and and and I I would love to get someone. Who's a fanatic rolling stone fan on this show to kind of talk to me about that end Kind of share. Maybe some of their lesser known songs to expand it. So totally agree. So far we're in sync Number three led Zeppelin. I think what I consider. Kind of the pioneers of hard rock but also so much color in layers and interesting different experimental And you know Watt a so influenced by the blues. And you know I can their instrumentation and a lot of a lot of reason. Why didn't get a lot of airplay with their songs for so long? Hr you know But and then you know like Zeppelin Three. They went very acoustic and You know voice. Is You know It's so descent Their popularity album sale there. I mean they're stage president their body of work really truly out to me that was another no-brainer and You know our page. You know if not the you know. Definitely in the top five You know basketball players of all time and Yeah that's My number three. Yeah they didn't make my list but I can't argue with anything you said. They are conic and there are many people. I know that are yelling at me. What how could they not make your list For All the reasons you said they are just they are truly icons of rock and roll now. What I find interesting is so far. You've gone all British. We went all American on Solo. And so far you've gone all British on your groups So I'm going to break that tone and I'm going to go With the Beach Boys for mine. You'RE GONNA go get. Yes yes I could not. I didn't put Bruce on. I resisted the be a homer but I could not resist the beach boys. They were As close to a rival for American band to the Beatles as possible Brian Wilson Influence. Paul McCartney Who Paul McCartney influence. Brian Wilson They also went from being. You know happy surf. Music to onto pet sounds and other albums that did not have the commercial success but still some great music They are they sold southern California as a place where there's two girls for every boy and that You know the the though Janet Dean Sang that Song. Brian wrote it They were just icons and When you hear other musicians talk about Brian Wilson And with his brothers and friend and cousin being that instruments of his genius You realize how far his influence that the branches from that Brian Wilson Tree continue similar. Like you said about Bruce when you hear about the people so I'm GonNa go beach. Boys stotts. Dr Scott Well. Four honorable mentions and they were one of the honorable. Mentions so I I can't argue with with with what you said. I think they're kind of fun. Surf music the fact that you know the toward for so many years with like different people including John Stamos. I think it's kind of her brand over the years I would've loved. I mean Brian. Wilson is a musical hero of mine. and You know I. I think if they had a second leg of their career like the Beatles did after all the you know overcome gum. Poppy stuff and had you know maybe three or four or five Pet sounding type albums that kind of really resonated with mainstream culture. I think they would definitely be Probably probably make for me And I think that's a I mean you're you're not gonNA you're not GonNa get an and and you're not gonNA get argument not only because we're polite and and love each other but I think that's fair. I think that's a fair assessment of of why if you were debating Let's say there. Were you know we were committee of Seven or eight experts If if someone made that argument back and forth I would as much as I love them. I would be willing to okay. I'm going to move forward with them. Not Making because you can only have four. So yeah that's really well done What's next for you okay? So this is the fourth one. So this is as I said earlier in the podcast from Cleveland till now So this is the only one that team in frears gave us one while foot and number four is pink floyd very concerned by British invasion. Ask You could say like I think you have you colleges making. Have you always hated America? Dr? I Hate American I had I look. I I thought about two and rem and you know Yeah it's You know what they are Number nine all time albums sold My to me Dark side is the in my people. The best album ever made I think The wall is genius. I mean you know the drill album album. But they're just this iconic life force and you know they. They let their You know personal differences really get didn't the way What could have been a much longer torn careers? They broke up during before the division bell tour Which Roger Waters is not even On the album or tour but You know they of literally I mean I don't know the number I mean but like I mean we're talking like like five hundred million or something like some crazy number that they've been asked like oh thousands of times To get back together and tour and You know it's interesting 'cause I I was really debating between them and I'll tell you who else after that you're forced election but You know what I what I thought was interesting was when I went on kind of want to see just from like any kind of popularity standpoint. They still relevant in the whole thing. And I found this thing where like Spotify like rank like their top twenty like streaming bands like of all time and Ford. Was I think like in like the top ten to fifteen still You know you still see people with the dark side shirts every day. I mean I just I can't say enough about the think they have one of the most unique sense. I mean nobody sounds like Which I think is also a big criterium also For why I decided to go with the number four. I mean nobody like they almost created their own genre of music. I can't argue with that. They are not someone that That speaks to me but I certainly can order that so debated on my fourth. Dr Scott and I wanted to do something that represented motown because of the huge influence. It had on radio and music in the sixties. So I ended up picking the temptations though I also thought about Diana Ross and the supremes And so the temptations ended up being my pick For and kind of representing Motown And and I know that's kind of I think that's a little bit of a stretch and as I said if we were in a committee I would probably would lean toward if someone said. Well no I really think it should be Zeppelin or pink floyd. I certainly could not argue that point. I would make my stand and then move forward. But since it's mine I went temptations. Well I mean look they have a very successful show on Broadway right now. So it's not like you picked secure bands. Yes all right You're you've just my dad. Very nice but that was my temptation your exactly literally you I mean. Look you it sounds like you. You want us to kind of topped your sound. That was so influential on to popular music. And you know. I can't argue if With temptation there Sometimes admittedly str- admittedly struggle with What the temptation song. And what's the four tops song and smoke house and in the miracles right like miracle? Yes yeah I mean I mean you know like but temps were probably the best at what they what they want for that John Laura Just like you know When we're talking about it's like you know someone could say. Bob Marley someone like that. I mean right. It's like you know if you're looking at different like Zahn Ras If we're doing country right you could do a johnny cash. Could even some might even say for gas. You know So I don't I you know you're not gonNA get a lot of pushback for me because you know to you know to me you know. It's it's interesting with my wife when I talk about this a lot when we're listening to music And we'll talk about like. Is this person. Does this person like Homs lie or be this band or do they have like their own sound Or they you know. Very derivative and And you know that whole like genre of music You know again in the Broadway show now is getting like you know. It's very hard to get tickets to and Huge ovations and So I mean you know. They were I it's IT'S A it's a very it's a very interesting selection but I think your argument for why they're while you put them was very solid very nice guy. That was fun. All right I- listeners. I know we've been long but we did want to take a few minutes We've got multiple people that have reached out to give their discussions. I don't unless in. Here's what I figure we'll do Dr Scott will will read them and unless something just stands out like Oh. I think that's a really well. Thought of discussion. Obviously we're not going to be you know if we're not going to be disparaging if someone picked the monkeys which no one did thank God. I'm just checking Though I certainly I certainly a fan of Peter Tork and Michael Nasmyth and Davy Jones and why am I drawing a blank on the last Guy But you would not put them on that list but we are not we know this is all about positively So I'll start with about positive on so I just want a quick introduction or I'll As the college I will I'm GONNA HAVE OCD. If I just don't say this I just have to. Just give the The just the four five honorable mentions you no because I really. I've never 'cause I really really struggled with the fourth one and Originally I had the WHO at number four on about them So I had the honour mentions or the WHO? The Eagles are only finally. I'm sorry. Go the Eagles fleetwood Mac. The doors and the visuals so I especially think the eagles and fleetwood Mac are the icons of the seventies I think were and and I do think their influence as eagles especially in modern country music I think is all over the place and I think to a certain degree you know I agree rock and roll so yes. All Great Honorable Mentions Okay So Mary Great Discussion. I knew it would be wonderful idea all right so as I said. We reached out to twitter and facebook asked for people to send their information. They did not have the criteria we just. I just asked for individual artists for groups. What would you think? So Marian Tin from twitter said Elvis Chuck Berry Bob Dylan springsteen or Bowie. David Bowie I think is certainly someone that is worthy of discussion. And then like when people do the when people do the or I'm Gonna I'm GonNA teach kids speak with the rebound food and then groups. They said the Beatles Stones Birds Rem. I think that's really interesting. 'cause THE BIRDS. I think an early influence or and rem you mentioned on someone. That certainly was some influences birds I love the sound of the birds. mostly Just cover songs but You know they're great at the greatest. Hits album is is is great Very random choice but Maryanne thank you. You've got one From twitter motion Newman An artist that Apparently Jussie doesn't like his name is Bruce Springsteen he's from New Jersey Elvis Presley John who was an honorable mention and Chuck Berry. Can't argue with any of those groups we have the Eagles Fleetwood. Mac each three bands so double dipping their. Yes and the Beatles. Yeah that's I thought about the eastern band because they're such an iconic band but I think it's similar to you like when you say Tom. Petty and the heartbreakers RESP- Racing East. You Ban you kind of think of those together so great choices Chris Bloom who is going to be on the PODCAST. Coming up. Pretty soon Returning he said Elvis Bob Dylan Bruce Springsteen Jimi Hendrix which I think Hendrix is a very nice choice that You and I. I don't think either one of US brought up Now I did have them on my honorable mention to me he's like the Arguments sports reference the the the Sandy Colfax of musician In terms of you know when people think of Colfax you know when the greatest pitchers in the history of baseball only had six great years got a twelve year career. Sixth Grade Years. And you know obviously part of the Infamous twenty seven club and died way too soon but I mean talk about His influence and his his his iconic status though I I loved Jimmy. Yeah and I think that's really good choice. I also I think back of your point that all along the watch tire right is is that's a Hendrix Song. Even though Dylan wrote it so very nice His groups he said REM second for. Im Pink Floyd U2 and the doors so a couple of year honorable mentions I gave a lot of thought to Youtube. Youtube is a pretty influential band and And there's a Lotta love between you. Two and the e street band so bruce and Bongo so that those are all good choices and probably when we look at from eighties on You know maybe Kroll Jam probably with that group Probably the you know already on Youtube Program Nirvana not enough body of work But those those would be probably the the the the biggest in terms of popularity And Body of work Those three bands would probably be from from the eighty five. You know what would be an interesting discussion and we may put this on. The future is pick a rushmore for the decades in. Like what would be your top four bands of the sixties. What would be the for the seventies the eighties with ninety s? You know that because then you could have that a little more diversity in the influence. Still a lot of choices the discussion You've got another one for me. We got him. Arnold thank you tim for Chiming in Kim is GonNa get some negative points here for cheating in multiple spots him your call to the principal so fit him. What would chuck Berry Springsteen and Prince Elton John May have been me hitting that when I cut and paste. He may have been his four. Were maybe Chuck Berry Springsteen Princeton Elton. John that's what I'm Gonna. Guess that my edit mistake but are you are you. Are you tim father trying to get him out of the country yes exactly I am? I do agree when his he does do a little cheating on his group. Please continue okay. Yeah out out of the doghouse yet. He Got Beatles stones up one. Okay so there's Similar to me. Would you not order? And then Tim You gotta gotTa select one of these. So you're gonNA have to Tweet US Who Who landed on Queen Pink Floyd or the WHO and then? He did like a four or five honorable mention. So we'll we'll so Continue Tim you have to commit. Some one of Queen is something that didn't come up but I think that is an amazing choice due to advocate. Hausky said that he did Chuck Berry Elvis Presley Jimi Hendrix. And Bob Dylan. I'm seeing a lot of Elvis and Chuck Berry and and Billon groups. He did Beatles stones the clash and talking heads very interesting choices on the class. Certainly Iconic David Byrne and the talking heads are massive influence Not as much you would think top forty hits but I certainly think that acute jr influence really really interesting choices. There's been very interesting choices And like to talk to Ed. You know I I could he. You know I guess you know with with the class. Kind of representing kind of the punk rock sound And alum bruises cover of London calling on the High Park. Open this out. It's phenomenal so It seems like he he went up. Maybe a little bit Death and favorite kind of mixed in a little bit but You I to the classroom talking has fantastic. Yes Oh do you And we're sharing documents so I know at one point Dr Scott lost the documents. So that's why we're going. He got another one for me. And then I'm going to read the rest. Yeah do you have beneath I have Tammy? Call Your Tammy is currently I give a shout out to. She is my my personal Job a guru. She has been working to in my job. Search she's just a great lady She says my personal not for historic reasons which I love putting that outgoing dope. Here's my personal She said Bruce gave a caveat. I love her Bruce Pink Lady Gaga and Prince really diverse. I love that it's You know two male to female. That's very well done You have a very diverse love. Go ahead and give us the nieces Let's see We got Bruce okay she wrote my personal so I'm assuming this is favourite Versus Bruce St Nick. Uh My wife will be Eric Clapton Solo And Elton John Since then for and then for groups Denise I love Love Love the spent I love Pity cream which. I'm a big big cream SAM so Love about selection Fleetwood MAC double dipped on Bruce And then Queen again not through another cream. Yeah I love the Eric Clapton Choice. I think that's another one. That is good I also the cream. That's really good Let's see I've got a now then. We're mixing out where I put a suit said so we're just gonNA flow with it. I Have Joe Delarue CEO. And he said Bruce Dylan Billy Joel and Elton John. I know you have y'all results out out. Yeah and then he said the Beatles who's Zeppelin cream so a second choice for cream that's great Do you have Steve Marshall? Yes I do what I think I only have sole award. That's all he had. Okay Bruce I love love this choice. I love Bob Seger I say Seger is just. What one most underrated Rockstars of all time So that that brings a small. Let's say Dylan Elton John. So John Get getting some love yes he is and he didn't do band so eager Dylan yet. Karen Rosiak smack K S C K She said Bruce Freddie. I assume pretty prints Not Freddy Fender Jim Morrison and Janice Joplin Janice Joplin. A nice little vote A very early influence or on rock and roll and someone whose career was shut was very very You know cut too soon so I love those choices. That's good part of the twenty seven club with Morrison to. Isn't it. Amazing what she perhaps murkier now. Yeah it's gotta be Freddie Mercury. I think so. Yeah I you know. That's you know the iconic you know. That film was just wonderful. And you yet how at least I did. How many Great Songs Queen Ray Greatly? Great Yeah and and and again when I discussed earlier just like talk about Obama has their own sound. It's like opera Broadway rock it's Yeah How would you pronounce it? Hollis maybe Ha L. Ese. Hollow Belly We got the beach. Boy Love we got Zeppelin and the doors That's huge doors fan to me. They you know again there were honorable mentions and to me like almost like Hendrix is Just didn't have the longevity. Unfortunately with you know tragic casting but And then individual order Bruce Elvis. Jim Morrison to George Fan and collector. And Beth Park Wolf said Bruce Dylan Billy Joel and Ray Charles Ray Charleston love. We had talked about him earlier. And I I love that. Pick under a risks She said Fleetwood Back Beach. Boys Ramones. And beastie boys rothe great as far as Trail Blazers of different style of music. The you know the ramones that that raw energy. And then the Beastie boys one of the earliest of you know You know of rap and in So I I think both really interesting choices. I like those persons to My one of my best friends Dave is a massive. Dc Board Fan And he will. He will love that. That selection and I like how she kind of Billy Joel and Rachel of the Billy. Joel's hero an idol. Yes Rachel so very cool Paul Rodriguez Picked Bruce Springsteen Tom Petty Elvis and David Bowie All phenomenal so much and and groups. Stones Zeppelin double dipping with East Ban. And the WHO isn't it funny. How much rock and roll icons come from Great Britain you know how many bands come from that you know. That's just really unbelievable. Yeah it's unbelievable it's unbelievable and and and and very interesting the amount of double dipping of Bruce and then Bruce Eastern band now and and and and and I like the criteria didn't save I could it might like I didn't criteria right. Yeah and also these are. I'm posting on a settling. And you know the settlers Bruce Facebook page and on Bruce Springsteen fan pages. So it's the you certainly would think there would be that bias storm. Aren't we got two left Maggie? V Said Beatles Eastern band. Elton Bruce so she kind of did two of each so. Thank you Maggie for that and our last one. Go ahead We got tiny Lechner. Potisk Bruce Elvis Ellen. John Chuck Berry died while Jesse. Isn't this your list? Beatles stones temptation I think it is. That is exactly my list So Patty Patty Patty poor porous or to Have a conversation while you do so as I talked about earlier. Dr Scott. I'm GONNA take all our numbers. I'M GONNA throw it in a spreadsheet and do a pivot table and come up with the top vote getters. Just be curious because And then we'll put who would make each a lot of overlap and So but I love the one offs like the Ramones. And the beastie boys and the doors. I think that's awesome that we've done that This has been a blast. I knew I would have done. I did not think I would have this much fun. It was fantastic. I it's a good a good icebreaking or good game to play at a party absolutely. Yeah I like that a lot. That's a good idea Any final thoughts before I let you go I WanNa thank you for having this my fourth Episode and I WanNa thank you for The invite and For AGAIN. You know Bringing bringing fans and and and music and communities together here just and You know Just really really honored. Every time I get to talk to you and you're just a an incredible guy and this is tremendous amount of fun and I hope we hope we speak to. Yeah absolutely I agree You know please. If you want to join me on the podcast send me an email set listening. Brusett. Gm DOT COM. You can find me on twitter at Jesse Jackson. Dr Scott Your twitter handle on at you N. Nancy G. Twenty six and my website is San Diego family therapist dot com and changed that now. They're turned Florida. I'M GONNA I'M GONNA be a licensed in two states surgery very exciting. Yeah Yeah and Any just before we part 'cause I kinda you know may or may not do a Google. Search twice a day You heard any thing about the the upcoming e-street album than any kind of rumors or speculation of when it when it may drop. I have nine. I know that everyone is well win. Win Win. So no I know we got to see. I think it'll be fun. And they're playing it very close to the vest but Yeah I think this is I think. Twenty twenty could be a very special year for the e street band and for his fans though last year was a pretty fun year. Considering there was no tour. Yeah Dennis so much. Solo material came out. Just really really. Nice Dr Scott. Thank you so much listeners. Thank you We will definitely have you back on prefer. Now thank you and we'll talk to you soon. You just heard the fun talk hard rock Music Marvin album raking fan thanking joy spreading Lira. Greetings story sharing. That is the one. The settlers settling groups as part of the southgate media. Podcast group the theme for Settling. Bruce was written by David. Roseanne used by permission.

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