20 Episode results for "Bitcoin"

eps.051 - Bitcoin 4 Christmas

Bitcoin Radio

31:22 min | 11 months ago

eps.051 - Bitcoin 4 Christmas

"What's up bitcoin? Radio it's your job Blackburn Burn. He would Jim scam polling today. We are fresh back from Thanksgiving Week. I hope everybody had a wonderful holiday already. If you're not in the states obviously XLII US Americans. We are celebrating Thanksgiving But you know this leads us to the most wonderful time of the year especially historically for Bitcoin. It's been a a wonderful wonderful one month. You know that we've I guess if we go back to twenty seventeen that we that we were able to Enjoy as Bitcoin rose grows exponentially all the way up to almost twenty thousand dollars is a couple years back and you know last year. Obviously we didn't enjoy the same benefits but historically Bitcoin Aucoin does have a pretty good run. ANYWAYS WE'VE GOT JIM on as as the usual now Jim. How's it going man? Good good how about yourself. Oh Bro Dude you know like I look forward to Christmas just as an individual right like it's a fun it's just to me. It's I just have a lot of great memories around Christmas. Listen so leading up to Christmas you know. Get Christmas tree. The some point this week I gotTa go put some lights up on the front end pretend like all aggravated about it but really. I'm just having a great time. You know what I mean. It's just it's that time of the year dude. Oh absolutely Nah. I'm right there with you. I'm a big. I'm a big fan of Christmas. Actually this weekend my girlfriend and I we've been putting up. Our are decorations are tree all that good stuff very fun. Very festive time of year. Yeah yeah gotta get in the spirit you know do you like did you Jouni Black Friday shopping. By the way I did not now now. I'm not really big into black Friday. I mean I've I've worked retail so I've worked riding and don't get me wrong. I mean there are deals but most of the deals are not really deals if I guess for kind of an insider's scoop like I'm not saying there aren't any but the the ones that you want are the ones that if you want to sleep outside for a couple of days because those are going to be gone quick at the rest of the stuff is a pretty decent jason sale but usually stuff. You'll see fairly close to that. So it's like the doorbusters of the big ones fair very you know and I'll even go as as far to say like I have never actually shopped black Friday. I will participate in the cyber Monday. And I do feel like you're actually getting a few better or at least like I save up for that moment in time. I've got it by Christmas present anyways right Jim so no I mean I've put together this little stack and I'm like okay. Spend it on my friends and family so anyways Ed but like you said I've also worked retail at a point although I I don't really you know I would want to say that. I have the experience that you do but It is a pain especially the day after Thanksgiving. Come on Madame either hungover or I'm too fat or too for the to move. You know everybody working but cheers everybody. Who is working man? I never mind that someone like thankfully I didn't have to do this but you know nowadays they gotta come in like Thanksgiving evening. Six seven o'clock. It's like Oh Jeez and I get it because people out there want to get the deals as soon as you can find them online. I still I still I'm being hypocritical here because I also still like to support my big box locations. I'm a I'm a fan of the old brick and mortar store so I like to spread my business business around but yeah usually you can find some good deals online of course when that cyber Monday rolls around absolutely well that leads me until you know. We were getting other good deals as in the form of Bitcoin. I mean right so. BITCOIN had a black Friday sale for the most part. We've kind of been experiencing black Friday sale for bitcoin now for about a week and a half two weeks now and you know I mean people can say what they want when I get a chance to buy a little bit of Bitcoin and put it away whether it's five dollars worth whatnot always do it and I just forget about it and we'll oh probably have some you know Hopefully if things go as planned in gym a you know a little bit about this but we're not gonNA go into too much detail but we have some maybe some announcement announcements Osman's to add onto bitcoin for Christmas will be able to figure that out maybe by the end of the week and maybe even by our live show here next couple days but But it leading up to that man like we already have bitcoin for Christmas. If you haven't checked at the website it's literally bitcoin. The number four bitcoin for Christmas Dot Com and on that website. It's pretty much a basic walked through to to`real on on everything from talking to your family about bitcoin. During the holidays to you know where would I go to buy it. How do I what what is it? I mean the everything's right there and I really you know for for podcast. There's a reason why we want to talk about this. Were about to really start putting out some things for you the the bitcoin enthusiasts and maybe the newcomer. Or maybe someone who wants to just be like hey look. I don't have time to explain bitcoin today to your friend but this is where you can at least start go check out bitcoin for Christmas Com. It really is an all around just guide you know and I mean obviously the website will put it in the description for you but it's it's got a countdown. We got twenty two days. I mean even if you just want to know how much longer you got till Christmas Jim is right there. Yeah absolutely and yeah I mean yeah et most likely. If you're listening to this show we do understand you already kind of have a grasp on a lot of this stuff and it's for you but it's for you to be able all to hand off to your family to your friends because I'm sure you know the the the crypto verse belongs all of us we're all doing our part This this is kind of a little cheat sheet to help you do your part and try to make it fun. Try to make it. Festive for the season You know whether it be Christmas. Dismiss or whatever holidays are celebrating here the as the years winding down and just a lot of fun content is well like when you go to bitcoin join number four Christmas Dot Com You know you'll have your your basic guides and stuff on there too. Because I'm sure you know even me as a new when I'm trying to explain this to some people When you start explaining it some people you know maybe there is gloss over? Or maybe they're like the kind of getting it but this is going to be something you know you give them the basics. They could sit down they can. They can go through it on their own time. Maybe make a little bit more sense of it but the more important important thing is that you'll see you know. We got the BITCOIN. Jesus video up there. I know some people kind of took a little bit offensive that I I understand you know yeah. I don't think anyone's trying to Be blasphemous to your beliefs. Kinda Fun With what's going on here but you have the video there which is is always helpful fun little thing to send someone but if you click on the link below that where it says view wrestler content there are some memes and stuff you can share share and as we know in this digital age memes are the best best way to communicate quickly. Send send a message to someone. So there's a plethora of images for you to go through that maybe you can send her onto your friends and put on your social media because again it's not like we've mentioned this in the past. It's not like this site is generating revenue for us or something like that. This is it's not. It's not like you're not entering any information on this site. This is strictly the information to help. Spread the word because you know. The the name of the game for Crypto and Bitcoin is mass adoption. And that's the end game here. That was that was that you know and and like even touch that you brought up the big little Jesus bitcoin. Oh Jesus Video Amana faith. I go to church. I consider Jesus Pretty close friend and writes pretty cool. Dude I mean but I mean. BITCOIN and cryptocurrencies impartial. A lot of We're less divisive. We don't we don't put up barriers that other Niches or other organizations or whether doing political stuff. Or whether you're doing sports you know bitcoin's pretty pretty Agnostic as has a hold of the just that there's just not a there's not a reason for one if the other and as I just noted I you know someone who does who does go to church in who who Who Does consider himself a man of faith? I mean I think it's a little bit fun right. I mean it's I don't think there's anything too bad about it right we. We did get a little bit pushback rightfully. So maybe this is. I don't Wanna I'm not sitting here judging or saying this one way or the next but you know what I did. It caught a lot of attention right. Yeah it got a lot of attention and I'm thinking about this Jim you know the mean is just like the next version of the dumber and maybe funnier Flyer right like you go around the back in the day when we were kids you no. You might go like pass by the bus station like twenty-five flyers on there. How did you see some of the tension? The same way that people catch people's attention means right and we got a bunch of great means. But it don't you think that's kind of like a good comparison flyer. Yeah absolutely a flyer it's the billboard. It's just a nice little thing you throw up on your social media because you you know you type a wallet taxed people are going to scroll right past that you know what I mean. If you like depending I mean everything has its time and place. I'm sure and see. CT NOT PEOPLE SHARE A lot. Like you know long breakdowns on Crypto. And that's your audience so people will want to read through that or they'll want Iraq with that but this is more for your general page you know maybe something the catch someone's eye they're going to click on that and maybe ask you more about it and again if even if they don't go to bitcoin going for Christmas Dot Com. If they're just asking you about it then that's mission accomplished. We're just trying to get the conversation going trying to keep it going and it. It helps all of us. Yeah and I don't want to give too much away but just imagine this Magin if there was a company and this I'm completely unaffiliated with anybody who's doing this. I've just letting you know that I've I've found and out that this exists that you can literally go and buy some bitcoin and then that bitcoin's time locked right gem so like you can't even go like if you received that bitcoin going you literally have to hold it good or bad right. I mean it is what it is so you want to lock it up for a year. Lock it up for five years. I was talking about this a while back about like having like some sort of bitcoin. Piggy eubank where you could personally. I could use us at times like so. I don't go and put some stuff on my lip. Hey count you know and then use. It might use my car but you know I I could could on a disciplinary. You know side of things make a case for me needing this myself but you know even for your family who you might be worried about giving your brother your little cousin so because he's GonNa spend it on shoes or whatever and this is kind of I'm GonNa talk about this I'm at least going to interview them. I thank you know. That's that's something I really think is relevant to this space space and Hopefully you know talking to Josh Donaldson. Who's member of the team? Obviously and Bitcoin for Christmas is a brain. It's it's a brain work. I don't want to call it a brainchild childish like something. It embodies everything Patrick's ever done right. Everybody knows Patrick Lane. He's given tons of Bitcoin away to just about anybody who's paying attention who tried to participate in the Contests whether he's letting you guessed next week's price of Bitcoin or just literally when he gave money away from the start of bitcoin radio. I mean I obviously sleep. Jim Both Maine you. Think really highly of him and he's been a great friend us and also you know with mouse belt as the CEO and One of the CO founders. I mean guys just the busiest this dude on planet earth and Crypto But do big time to make sure the little man knows how to get in right. I mean it's a it's a big part of what he wants. He sees truly as a revolution Asian where a lot of people think see simply as a way to make money right he sees it very differently. Contracts me so much to how he does business anyways but Jim you know if you're if you're her somebody who's brand new you see this website. I mean I gotta say on a personal level I know that I can skip ahead things and I just take things as like already know what that means gene. So I don't even think about it consciously but you're you you you can still put yourself in those shoes like I mean when you look at his website. It's pretty simple as a not. Oh absolutely really. Yeah I mean it's it's because again it's not like it's it's not designed to really get much from you besides just give you information. Give you a platform to give information out of the people. So you got the guides right there on the front page You got the content and the memes like we said and I mean I think even the other side of it to the way you could look at. It is if you're looking like if you're the CRYPTO had in your family early and you're just hoping to maybe get bitcoin for Christmas like why even concerned with buying it for your friends and loved ones loved ones but you want a way okay for them to be able to buy it for you. This is perfect for that as well. Great Point Jim Folks. If you're trying to leave a hint for mom or for wifey or whoever or husband he you know he just sent him the link right you know. Tell me I'll I'll drop them. A line puts up in their stock. Inform you know give. May Mom wants to Bitcoin. Look I mean it's better than I'm getting cash in my opinion like I I love the ability to be if you have cash and you want to go buy something on ebay you can't you can't right right now yeah your Sol. I mean like you gotta go you gotTa go put it somewhere you can go. I guess you can go by Ebay Gift Card or something like that but Bitcoin I got my bit Paycard Geico Card and my bitcoin and I can go buy whatever I want including take out. Cash bit pay reallowed cash withdrawals by the way. I don't know if you part of that whole deal when they stopped letting you do that but I think last month actually reopened it. I haven't done it yet but I haven't to I. I'm not sure what I wasn't really around for any of that type of stuff. I think it was the first of the year last year. I really don't remember not only taking cash out a few times that I've needed it but they literally stopped us there. I guess they were trying to figure the walls and bit pays out of Atlanta Georgia. Remember correctly could be wrong but obviously trying to follow the rules or real. They're real you know banking banking. Excuse me institute. And they're sitting there. You know taking your bitcoin giving you immediate cash Jim. That's the beautiful thing about it. Is I sell it immediately lately. Boom it's in my car and I'm not. This is not a sponsor at I assure you I'd just use bit pay a lot. You know when I when I travel or whatnot But but I the the only liming bringing this up is that because I have bitcoin I can use cash or I can spend. Obviously you gotTa be worth taxes and how it's GonNa Affect you but of course you know we're we're gonNA have a good tax episode at some point months as tax season is here as well. Yeah yeah easily. I need to study up on that. Ain't to figure out. It's announced announced that for sure. I figured out what we know Jim at my door with the handcuffs by I mean. Let's talk about fun. Things exclude Christmas. I do because I guess I didn't mention before they're the social media links and stuff for up On the main page as well because I did we did. Get a communique from Josh Donaldson saying that the Twitter's getting some nice interaction so I like we mentioned the means. I think think the twitter has some of the more up-to-date and memes. I do see a baby iota on their. Everyone does know that right now. Baby Yoda is. Everyone loves baby ODA So yeah I think it's well the links on Bitcoin for Christmas Dot Com or it's at bitcoin number four x Smith's on twitter. I mean I know where like this. Sounds like an nat- or something like I'm not I'm not trying to do that. it's just again. It's just about making it easy for people to understand because because I jingle jingle I seriously coin four Chris Smith's I want my bitcoin for Christmas. What you think I think we're getting there about halfway there. I mean my first attempt ever had a jingle. I'll take it because I swear to God. I can't just be me. It's not always easy easy to try to tell people like the INS and outs of You know never mind. Just bitcoin crypto in general because again the outside of like one of the main hurdles of just kind of new technology in people. Trying to understand that you you're basically kind of fighting fighting against the mainstream media. Opinion of crypto being you know for criminals so slapped Chris on their nice wholesome Holiday to to try to. Maybe maybe shake that Shake that image a little bit. You know absolutely now. Look I want to tell a story here And this person's knows knows exactly who they are. They're gonNA listen to this show. I hope you know they've been listening to the show so but I'm not going to say what their name is that they are family member of mine right you know. I'm not saying how close extended family whatever but I was just home for Thanksgiving. We do a big family. Get together Lots of people from family command cousins aunts uncles etc and You know my family member comes at me like Joe. I need your help and I'm like what's up dude. He's like I can't get into any. The crypto counts I'm like which ones in us like you know Coin based I I like I'm locked out. I got a new phone and my to say that that you may be set up like It doesn't work anymore. I'm like oh well that's probably because you're too if aid does not transfer over when you get a new APP or when you get a new phone you don't just get the re download the APP and they're the same. It's just not the way it works. He's like Oh. I figured that out. Now you didn't tell me on Mike. I'm sorry I'm not a real. I honestly I know this in. I probably should have told told him when this was going on. But you know get so caught up like I know this it's like instinctively in my DNA. Now that you know you gotTa under your hip to get new phone. It's A. It's a huge huge reason. Why I don't even have a new phone yet right? I just don't want to go through my nine hundred two counts at the undo anyway. So get on there. And then he's like I have another another count. Oh we have this This exchange you know we're going unless there's like like three or four exchanges you know it's not too bad you know. But he's literally locked out of every single one of them including including Bein ants. which obviously you can't even use anymore as a customer after us by its US? And so I mean the whole week we spent waiting for these crypto companies to either there alleviate the the issue with two A. or trying to recover some some Some you know wallet Keys and I mean we got everything everything done but it just goes to show someone. Who's I'm very close with? Who listens to my show? who had not checked their actual counts because they just keep it keep track of their portfolio on their phone own? You know they still struggle with us right like this is not something that I find you know difficult anymore but I know that people that know me that do bitcoin the have owned it since essentially I made them by it at some point got locked out of the race and they couldn't get back in and I just want people realize like it can happen everybody and ignoring wearing it or just not dealing with right now as eventually just going to wait till a huge issue when you do need to access it or you do WanNa move it or you do WanNa do something with it period. It's just just take care of it now but don't feel bad if you don't and this is what Bitcoin for Christmas will allow you to do and one of the things I wanted to reference was the fact that we actually went to the site and I made him download these. Ah The pamphlets that are on the site. And now he's got him on his on his laptop on his where it's accessible. If he needs to refresh or figure something out and and I can't I can't be there to actually walk them through it and he's got something for him. I mean that's forever like that's literally super easy. Yeah actually even to try to drive it home to like honestly in at I could. I didn't get permission to say this but I I can almost like hey is just download the pdf center on your friends. You don't even have tell them go to bid for a big land for Christmas Com- if you're like that against supporting it fair enough because again it's just all getting that information out there and we figure because here we are I show a December and like I think people didn't realize how Since thanksgiving was really late this here at the 'cause most people are like no. I'm not in the Christmas mood till thanks to at least Thanksgiving's over like you know. No No oh Christmas talk no Christmas music. No decorations still thanksgiving. But you forget like in a year like this with Thanksgiving being so late like it really ask wishes down that shopping season if you will For December because usually we have like a a little under a week left of November before were like kicking ass right into December but the clocks tick and folks don't be stressed out. Don't be running around or you know trying to buy stuff where it sells out online or dealing with parking and crowds and all that stuff and even like gift cards because I guess the one of the biggest things to compare it to like you mentioned cash people give gift cards. It's the same shit except you got some potential here. I know we've been seeing seeing a volatile towel market but hey you know it's been holding. We're probably we're probably going up. You're you must believe it's going up that's right that's right well said Jim. You know the look all bitcoins ever gone. Survive it no matter what media says no matter how it's being used criminally no matter how many times have been used for good things no matter how may times that you bought or sold it. It's survived and I'm proud to say it's still here and we're coming up on eleven years on January third thinking about that. Jim Eleven seven years. I don't have to say ten years in work now I can say eleven the double ones the one one eleven. I mean it's here folks. It's staying and going aware bitcoins. Birthday is January. Worry third is that for real. Yeah Brew January third my birthday. Wow how about that. Wow I show uh-huh I did not realize this I share birthday with bitcoin and Bitcoin are one. Oh that's great good for you know. Look we we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA celebrate bitcoins birthday alongside of yours on a special podcast. Episode live cast. Were literally going to be blowing out candles on the cake and order some balloons for you. But we're GONNA do something special for that Jim. Hell yeah that's awesome. I feel even more special now. Well I mean it's like it's meant to be do yes. Yeah it's called the genesis block you should you. Should you should like get tattooed or something. That would be tight. What would it take for you to get a Bitcoin Tattoo? What would it literally take? It'll probably take because I don't have any tattoos either. If I already had attach I feel like once someone already has a tattoo way more open to just kind of get whatever but I feel like that first. One asked to be something special not to say the BITCOIN's not special I mean obviously agree. Don't like I I don't have one either and for me to get a tattoo. It would take a lot as well right. Yeah Yeah clean hitting one hundred thousand dollars. There is something that happens to people. I don't know it just the anchor the whatever 'cause something whenever I've had a friend that got one tattoo all of a sudden they're like itching to get more than they say they're addictive. I maybe one of the reasons why I haven't got one yet is that that scares me a little bit. I don't WanNa be I'm GONNA look like you know post Malone over here which is tattoos all over my face looking like crazy dude. Bitcoin Wayne like Bitcoin teardrop. But yeah I mean like like you said it's not going anywhere I mean how like you just had a I had a Football Club meaning soccer here in the states up On the show and the fun that was cool man. That's that's interesting. I mean I mean I. It did seem like I like this though like it seemed like their team or their club. Or you know phrase it like. They're they're about kind of shaking things up and kind of whether it be just trying to get attention or just kinda set themselves up in the crowd. Because I know the story of what happened me Khalifa like get there. Yeah Yeah. He's off over our rolling over there in the UK But Yeah No. That's cool because I mean like I'm like I'm on American so it's not like we watch last soccer over here but I know worldwide that is like you know that's the shit aboard. Yeah that's where all the is are. So that's that's a that's a pretty big deal huge deal and if you would've told somebody this three or four years ago Jim that that one of the Premier League league soccer football clubs was going to have bitcoin as a sponsor first off. You can't just have bitcoin sponsor someone really has to like donate the money that you can't even like there. It's just it's insane to think that someone literally paid a football club in the premier league to put this on their shoulder. I I like you got to think of a selflessness that or the revolution inspired I mean I thought of Money Patrika. I you know the way that he he gets all excited about this kind of stuff but I I. I'm just so impressed that somebody wanted this to happen now. You know I referenced in the PODCAST. If you haven't listened to focus go back Friday podcast Waterford F C May Have they have Just an incredible incredible opportunity for bitcoin to get the exposure and to get a to get in and get people can ask questions about it. You know this is a Premier League team. One of the premiere. The Premier Li literally is the most watched sports league in the entire world. It's like in Mike. One hundred thirteen of one hundred twenty six countries or how many were countries are for geography guy but But that's a lot isn't not. Jim Absolutely is crazy. It's huge anyways. Always we'll look I. I know we don't want to spoil too much because we got a cool show coming up on Tuesday and you know I know a lot of people were still recovering back. And they're still on their. You know their food drunk. You know from from from Thanksgiving Day but you know I mean I I mean look at me like what my beard. I haven't even got off. I haven't been able to do anything just like. Oh I gotTa Shave today but actually actually Kinda like. It's getting a little thick steak you jim grow yours out. Let's do this together back brothers. I'm trying your look as you look. Aw steady I mean I hear that you're kind of wrapping up. I do want to mention it real quick where I be selfishly selfishly unselfish here and I'll probably talk a little bit more about it on the live show but over on my show Jim in them. I figure I will bring Nisa the BITCOIN radio family just to see Who what the people are out there? But I don't even know if you're aware of this show but over on my show we do a thing. Every holiday season called tots turn we try to get tots. We do a toy drive and we accept donations from listeners. Out there we've I guess. This is the fifth fifth year. We've done it and do all the money goes directly to we go to toy stores we buy shits on it toys choice and we bring them to the one of the fire. Departments here does fill the firetruck toy drive and we always roll up like four or five carts parts. We've brought bikes. We had like Nintendo we's and stuff last year. A lot of our listeners have been very generous. Will we get you know. Usually we average anywhere from like two to four grand or something like that and we just buy a bunch of bunch of toys and gift cards for older kids and then you know stuff for little kids so if you're so inclined this is not a scam. I understand I'm kind of near the community so I understand you're skeptical but if you go to gym dot com there's a link at the top for tots turns going I should I guess I should be. I'd have to look into that. I don't have an option. It's like a big. I mean you can just put up a bitcoin wallet address. Yeah I guess I'd have to make I WANNA make a separate one or something for it. I guess I'll have to go for Christmas and figure out the only person I in years had this struggle so we could probably figure it out. Yeah Yeah because I mean I was just GonNa say yeah. We have pictures and stuff in the past year so this is legit. We get a nice long on receipt. We get all kinds of good stuff. as a kid I grew up. W- you know where sometimes Christmases weren't so great and places like this. Help my family out so I love the opportunity to be able to do that and we also if you do donate you do get an option to get something back because any twenty five dollars you every twenty-five you donate you get your name putting a raffle. You get at least an option to win at least one hundred dollars gift card Maybe more I guess if a bitcoin person wins will send you. Bitcoin coin. Whatever you want but you know think about it people it is it? Is that time what you just said. Jim Is is so so. oftentimes it's taken for granted. You know what people grow up whether what they don't grow up with you know and it's relative to everybody situation a lot of kids don't even know and that's the beauty about being in the kid is that you don't know always your situation but you remember your situation especially Hopefully your your Your situation's gotten better and you know when you have an opportunity to give back you you better. That's that's the only way I can say you know I I. I'm not GonNa sit there and scold anybody but e better. That's the only that's the only way that I noticed that it and I know that means a lot to me need to help out and we've done on this. NC as well throughout the years. I and it means a lot to me when I see people give you know. It's just it's just the part of the community that makes it a community as the selflessness. Awesome you know you. You said you're GONNA be selfless selfishly unselfish and I think that's the furthest from the truth. I think you're just unselfish your heart's in the right spot. I applaud your efforts and I wish the people are doing it. Thank you sir. Thank you appreciate it. And Yeah we sponsored Two families one year. We've done the pull the things off the Christmas tree where kids put like Walmart. What they want so all kinds of avenues and it feels really good to help out so if that sounds anything interesting to you going Jim dot com and then and maybe I'll setup away to take? Bitcoin of people are cool with doing that as well to know scams here. Don't worry it's not. I'm not trying to rob Ya. Even though it's the first four letters of your last name. Yes which is just classic birthdays on January third and your last name Scam Kelly. I mean Scam Poli it just. It's perfect you know it's it's all meant to be anyways all right any final words where we miss him I think that about. Does it like like Joe same. We're just checking it in real quick after the holiday weekend. Just trying to gear up for the next holiday as twenty nine teams will have to be put to bed so appreciate your listening getting through this Monday after the Post holiday and I think the most important thing is tipped over does belong all of us. We know aware we're doing. What are you doing about it? What are you doing folks? Tell them next time. Everybody here on W._B._Z.. Were bitcoin lives is Joe and gem on the BITCOIN radio. Show see you soon base.

bitcoin Jim Josh Donaldson Joe same Blackburn Chris Smith Mike Ed Jim Folks Atlanta ebay Twitter
The Bitcoin Podcast #266: Bitcoin Zay

The Bitcoin Podcast

1:13:07 hr | 1 year ago

The Bitcoin Podcast #266: Bitcoin Zay

"Entering Guy Podcast I <music> crypto these three guys they have this big point aw hey everybody welcome to the Bitcoin podcast episode number two hundred sixty six and I'm your first Marcello in almost number to dimmed Eric. I most number three DART. Corey petty got guest host. Today we do too Paul is going to be like an. I'm hosting before broke your could you up. Maybe go house number therefore Jesse. A man broke in this bitch hold on the same introduction the phone with a soundboard area you do this guy. You May know him in the slack has broke. I know him Jesse. The man broke he needs no introduction even though he's Kinda getting one man with the master plan the best Google earlier this side of the Mississippi Areas The number four Jesse elephant you get so into it. Like how else are we supposed to do. I mean you can't do it any other either way but it's it's great our own interests. You give everybody a great. I need to do that for you. I don't do that for our guest. He's fucking guy. He knew the fucking now. We always like touch. The guy like hey introduce yourself. There's a uh we didn't do enough preemptive work together. You are so behind these some somebody he watches W._W._e.. In the background here's known on <hes> so bitcoin. There's a lot going on crypto almost too much. I think our channel like earlier this week. Corey is when I was like man this too much shit to keep track of like I kid this. There's no possible way to keep track of everything going on in crypto anyone so you were talking about that before the interview with <hes> our guest today that's very true. That's very true. <hes> we're going to get into that <hes> we had a guest. We interview BITCOIN's a but I get let's go ahead Joe Camila okay <hes>. I guess the thing is consuming everyone libra. I really don't WanNa talk about Lieber though I don't know about you guys what's not R- that hearing that's the thing is as adoption gets bigger. There's going to be more more headlines. More Congress hearings more trump tweets. It's really have to start Cherry picking what we talk about. Do we want to spend like we could literally eventually. I think jealous didn't tell us we could spend the entire show could be talking about Congress hearings and companies doing poor limitations cryptocurrencies unjust Adar's. Yes deal just said what do we talk about. What we want to talk about? I I remember like let's get more chicken farmers right like we had a dude who raised chickens and sold them for bic one of the show. That was what Australia Your House Australian big chicken farmer guy. He's Lincoln hasn't changed since that so I can check in it. Just check it regularly like your monthly to do lists that go check farmers linked sick at this <unk> plumbers doing he's held since the episode that we record with each chicken. Egg is probably worth like two grand if hell yeah for real that was a long time ago back on is like what five hundred episodes sixteen not the golden goose. It's the golden chicken is literally the golden goose the good old days so things those as like I was still just as passionate with the price to seventy four as I am now with the Dow. Thank people are going on link to undefined people to buy chicken extra I would. That's the first place I'd go except for you to get your produce. <hes> so I mean we talk about Bitcoin. I argue for big oil. I of that like the progression that's making as a technology but I'd know core you disagree with me but <hes> you know lightning is getting an upgrade soon and you're going to be able to fund like like external wallets that aren't on the lightning that were from the lighting network. I don't even know maybe I'll maybe maybe that's what they say. I don't sorry in Bitcoin world. I don't believe anything until it's actually implemented in Maine that I love the idea yeah of technologies that could make into bitcoin. I don't not don't get excited about them until they're in bitcoin like tap root in all of all all of what's <unk> associated with tap root is awesome awesome but I'm not excited about it. 'cause it's not bitcoin yet. Companies feel the same way you do after the whole I._C._O.. Craze if I'm doing a deal with a company I can't. I can't pitch them things. That haven't launched it or do that anymore. It's just like cool. That technology is there. It's not proven proven is not there. No one's using it so I- reserve judgment I._B._M.. Made about four hundred million dollars selling people on hyper legible ship can't do that anymore. Wow that's a lot of fucking money. As a lot of money I think about all think about all of the market caps of all the I._C._O.'s during the boom and the lack of products. We still have like think about think about the company I work for Status Right. I'd say we are a very legitimate company trying to very legitimate said just now getting to the point of releasing version one of our application in why it's hard to it's hard to find developers build these things so I'll take his point is hard to find developers that can build these do things yes and because it's hard to find devs. It's like your burn. Rate is just so slow because you got a smaller team and you could just develop so slowly. I don't know it's it's it's like I'm I bounce back and forth between European cello of like I'm I'm pissed off and I want things to be here now and like a pissed and over into cores as Rome whereas like Oh these things take time and nobody really knows what they're doing and we have to be patient with them so Jessie your opinion matters to what do you think about like if you had to give your opinion on the general stated cryptocurrency right now. What's your sentiment? I think we're moving towards mass adoption slowly baby steps though and it may not be bitcoin. It'll be like some conglomerate of all the different specific blockchain's and I think bitcoin is just going to become one of them. Will there be one chain to rule them. All now links. It'll be more like like Captain Planet like Earth Wind Fire Heart with the planets. Here's you can be one to saving our planet is the thing to do. I love that focus on that song jams anyway what I was saying before my dog's rudely interrupted me tired and I see oh funding model so she said she followed up with us. <hes> the funding model does not do a good job of helping a lot of developers built products it gives them a shitload of money up front immediately with no real roadmap to to <hes> <hes> deliver that thing should should companies pay in Crypto is that encouraged people to build or deter people away they had small business services would be great if there was a way to count and keep track lack of the things you're doing as a business hang crypto. That'd be fantastic if status changed their whole business model payout one hundred percent status would have to employees leave. You think I'd have a hard time staying because I'm a U._S.. Citizen and I have to pay capital gains on that if they pay me thirty percent more than what I make now do it. If you feel like your colleagues would feel the same way you do a lot of it has a lot of them. Yes that's pretty cool. How much do you think they're paying marcus in libra? Almost you think they would pay markets in labor. Three hundred thousand dollars four hundred thousand dollars in labor and Labor. That's it one might be more than that and based on based on based in that position what he's trying to accomplish it could be much more than that. There could be upwards of seven. I'd say seven to a million. We'll see more reasonable leading libra yeah yeah oh but Labor was the subsidiary of <unk> start. Cobra is a subsidiary of Facebook Messenger right this appeal off from the Facebook Messenger team which is a different team than the facebook team but anyways. I don't know why news much of his <hes> I guess mass adoptions there that my my pops FIS it. You know almost everyone in my family owned some now. It's taken them six years in five digit percentage games to understand that I might know what I'm talking about but I think we wanted bitcoin to be a viral tweet. You know it's following massive option but it's going at the baby steps snail's pace when people are to be a revolution so I think that's where people get kinda disappointed. We're always going to be a step in the right direction because if you tell L. A. Secret to somebody gonNA tell it to people to people will tell it to four people that's normal but there's nothing revolutionary about the pace of bitcoins adoption. I don't think it's still cool. I'm still here but I wish it was adoptable quicker yeah. It's I wish it was a bit more lightning buzzy do because the logger in this in you see these cycles over and over again you get so like but yeah I don't. I don't want people to be like bitcoin. I heard something about that like. In Two thousand Thirteen Damn Thang still around the last response. What do you say to the Dude Jello in like twenty twenty five who rose up on you in his like bitcoin? Didn't that die. Will you just laugh at him like that Batman mean have you been. What do you go? That's the last thing I want. I think it was the trump T- was excited. That was last week right hurts inside our hearts been sad but I guess it's like here we are the president is who is Donald Trump is tweeting about help. BITCOIN is a currency because he's an idiot. Yeah I mean getting in trump arguments several talks throughout this week in our slack. I'm not only has twenty five million twitter followers though we're not we can't go there. We can't as a rabbit over me. You got to avoid this op. She D- can't handle themselves. It's like that was an Roger Rabbit when they're seeing that song and he's in that back room is like I don't know what Roger Rabbit you watch wait a second row traumatic the snaking in haircut any bus out of the wall and he anyways obscure reference <hes>. What is there anything in group though that happens we kind of you guys Oscar released version to the dogar obvious dangerous is it is actually easier to use that <hes> they promised it improve on many things from version one so that's headed in the right direction? Actually I push it on a Rep coin from our boy tease swail baby. Oh I do not have shipton of rip going. Still you hold onto it could for you why held on of it. Ed Ashir didn't know what the fuck do because I'm not lodging any Brett. I'm not lodging any markets. I don't have the time for that those kinds of shenanigans but you can sell it will Tony Swish was the one that that that got me into the theory of he was selling hard back when all we were doing is is talking about Bitcoin and he showed me a theory and I was like I'll give it a shot actually owned an enormous amount of them but then sold them way to early <hes> <hes>. I hate that I do that. I'm going to probably get them on hashing it out. All these changes are things I would like to touch discuss Auger yeah bleeding air lock Agassi scary for me. Just hold Donte because I know it's a powerful prediction mark scary whether Liu so but anyways <hes> just not so much. I remember looking back trying to put myself in like the viewpoint I was at on these things we're launching. How like we everything was revolutionary? Everything was going to be a game changer here. We are just a few years later. We're like okay cool. They lost something. They've been out on May net for a long time but do they have that. Ah like injuring level adoption. We thought they'd have where like you if you just click on a new source of NC percentages based on what the current markets were saying about that particular event now. Could it end up being that way baby. I don't know another thing a testament to your point they suck at marketing to have something that's as full tilt working like they wanted to as they do and they aren't really drying at all the tell anyone what's going on. I Jesse was use odd. Yeah like <hes>. I'm hype about the new terminator movie because they just cast Edward Edward Furlong back into it so the movies that out yet but they're marketing it where it's not that hard Edwards ain't long is on was eating original <hes> the original John Connor that had a drug problem so oh see now. You're excited not that it's not that hard to market something. That hasn't been out yet but nobody wants to do it and it's so easy I actually count as a lot now yeah me too. I mean they're they're marketing. Do tune up. The Dune pumped about that in fact Hans Zimmer. <hes> isn't working with Christopher Nolan because he couldn't pass up the chance to work with Dune. Now I WANNA see tune. Wow Yeah so it is kind of easy to just talk talk about what you do as you doing it she. I don't know it depends on the audience right. There's a lot of a lot of pretexts and previous feelings about a lot of those things that if the right thing is mentioned you automatically. I WanNa do it in this space. That's really hard to do <hes> because like you have to talk about certain people in certain cir- executive various people do something. I'm probably going to think it's okay if there's not that many people because the space is really small and you'll have the opposite of that situation where you have that people who have become famous <hes> end up going and doing different things in the thing that got them famous ends up sucking or like not getting as much fanfare as it. I used to look at Auger like Joey crew got famous doing Auger and now what does he do not ardor or May geogra- I don't know but like people who got rich on the I still boom went on to go build funds V._C._R.. Become influencers in some way shape or form and they're no longer like just doing the job they set up to do. Spanked chain sucks because a mean gene does a bunch of other ships other than spank chain now like it doesn't suck. I don't know what's going on with it I don't I don't know I have no idea it doesn't talk about it anymore. I Dude I actually brought this up on one of our shows along time ago that <unk> a reason why kind of Cryptos Kinda stuck sucks because or wise in this perpetual state leads Walpole because <hes> it's biggest fans are developers but man if I ever met a crew people that are that the have a low attention span do like they liked to jump from project to project to work on all these different things in quote unquote solve the next coolest problem but that's not how you like build something up you build something by sticking with it for a very long time and continuously improving upon so like <unk> stagnation is a feature not a bug will if you look at Spain chain we don't know what's going on with because he's not running around with porn stars in bathrobes Bitcoin. Whose job is it to yell from the mountaintops about Bitcoin? There's no centralized authority so it's up to. That's why it's so hard to figure out where where are we the mass adoption scale so one we need to talk. How are you judging it? Are you judging adoption. Personally Jello ages looking at market Cap <hes> I mean that's that's the that's the low hanging fruit is the only way I can really monitor it. What if you look at content creation surrounding like crypto currency like <unk> at large? It was at all time high with the I._C._O.. But all that was vaporware scam so I can't meet by that either only a few months ago. What there's this Youtube Youtube Channel bitcoin friends launching a little cartoon about bitcoin? Somebody posted that in slacken. It's pretty funny yeah. It's pretty funny. That's Charlie in <hes> Sampson Maui Samson Mao in another other guy because what else do you do you sell like when the absolute hi you're sitting on just more money. You could wipe your as dollar bills you what you do is you buy a bunch of sports like <unk> n._F._l.. You're going to have light coin like right beside unidentified logo <unk>. He's been doing it for U._S._D._A.. Charlie Lee is buying up celebrities or like sports CELEBRI- he's a very smart man so he's getting the name of like going out there. Where people who go in go in droves Rove's to see these things C.? N. E. S. US that calm. What's the word I'm looking for like calm demeanor yeah like he just knows his shit's going to work like that's what I appreciate the most trial he's like yeah? I mean Bitcoin Lichens pretty simple. It's just speak when divided by four so why wouldn't it work in like wait. Wait a second. Why wouldn't it work in which you can't rely on? You can't rely on spokespeople either. If you look at Michael Bisbee. He's not promoting Timmy coin. Shell Sidon isn't promoting Dash. Rory MacDonald is promoting. You know what I'm saying. There was just fairweather spokespeople but if you have your logo on the Mat for an event that's that's immortal yeah I think he's yes. I think he's he was smart about not in that regards weight is likely on that and U._F._C.. Yes yeah so maybe adoption is just happening but it's we thought it would look a certain way in it's not looking well. I think we wanted it. They wanted to be different. Komo <unk> taking the same route of appropriate advertising not like making drastic shifts in the in the psyche of humans and how they deal with value transfer yeah. That's GonNa come much later. Little beep Barak chips in the blockchain is not adoption are not Livonia sallow little busy <unk> booze newsy that allows the barbecue got the boozy juice baby. Get the boozy shoes that those chips hey he actually did it. I'll commend him for that. It's just not on the blockchain thought it'd be into list. You described blockchain decentralisation Jesse by if I if I can and I wish I could show the emphasis. His manager was trying to get him to say certain words. We asked him that question we we're while I was telling Jesse like you know we had U._F._C.. Fighters Platinum Rapper's there to the personnel side looking in that might look like adoption but nobody knows what the hell is going on. I think Michael visiting was just trying to get rich off a booming early adoption industry. He got paid us very transparent on podcasts. I don't know what the Hell a health coin does or what they do. You know low boozy in what the Hell's going on. That's not adoption. You know what I'm saying for me. That's not adoption. That was weird. Same same reason will be passed up those interviews with like popcorn shit like I passed up in every with a game 'cause that's shit was really religious. Catch D- Didn't WANNA do little boozy. He told he told me like five times dude. Let's go right now. Yes Ma that was hilarious. No we did we did Amir blockchain <unk> like the Mirza solutions before doing that and it was like an incredibly technical interview retired about the kind of data instead of ice you will run invite us and then and then dobozy in his aunt fucking entourage walk up to like come to the next one and the the do look to me and he goes. Can I stay for this. You're being you gotta walk away a little bit then what talk us like. He's just like sat. There is like I can't believe I'm watching this right now. Well do we cut to the interview. See that all right well. That's a good segue to the interviews a little busey story so we we actually had on a guy big wins and he runs a gentleman crypto and. And it is a daily podcast Monday through Friday <hes> type in gentlemen of Crypto in your web browser and you can find it all. That's another thing I noticed that people start people getting so lazy now. They're saying search thing on Google on on T._v.. Advertisements it's awesome. I was like don't go to www dot just just type in the search bar man. I was like I was watching something on C._N._N.. And then the advertisement was approved medicine some sort of medicine and I'm assuming they're talking to the elderly elderly like and it said if you wanna find us online search this and I was like damn they have paid a lot of money to eat on that first page but anyways <hes> here's the interview <hes> because hello everybody <hes> we we got an interview for this week. <hes> we hope you enjoy the lasts <hes> this week we have another guest as been into. It's been a somewhat of a journalist I guess you could say he has a podcast self on Bitcoin but but we're here to talk about his book so we're here with the author of Bitcoin and Black America Erica Isaiah Jackson you might know twitter as big Wednesday so so I do a man welcome back to the show by the big bags <unk> speak when she fell about books in the bad seed things he'd be on spaces will Lewisburg so <hes> shitless she could spin just get into it. Let's get into it yeah. What is what is the purpose of writing bitcoin Black Black America well <hes> the purpose right now is <hes>? It's a solution based <unk> basically as a wakeup call to people in my community people because <hes> them graphically not really represented in the bitcoin space and been going everybody so I I just WanNa make sure that my community is reached out to them and <hes> the best part about it is a lot of the solutions can be used across the board however I'm only familiar with my community so at targeted <hes> the black community and talk about Bitcoin blockchain teaching technology how it can impact in the future so definitely wanted to put this book out just to make sure that the awareness is there kind of rid of the excuses and can hear it from a person who uses it not immediate. Most people stuff is coming straight from mainstream. Maybe who's WHO's Gimme your audience. What if someone protect your book and read it? What we're what who would you think that person is and then what are they walk away from that book now understanding <hes> anybody who is interested in bicker on a crypto currencies? This book is few <hes> Ages Sixteen on. I will be able to understand the language also <hes> any any community that has been suppressed economically in American abroad like the book because there's a solution solution to the way the banking system has treated <unk> certain community so anybody that crosses over those communities as well as investment bankers of people who WanNa learn about the industry <hes> from the viewpoint of somebody who's using it and like I said before not mation media is that that's what is looking for. That's it will pick this book up find interesting as some of the solutions like I said they would love to see exactly how this can be used in the future and not just <hes> you know projections from people on T._v.. We don't really have anything to do with space nice so let's dive into that <hes> there'd be some there'd be some objected objections. Even in the crypto crowd like where's does economic suppression. How did it come about? Why does it have to be directly targeted towards that but what are some examples of how this happen in how bitcoin can kinda counteract that all in house especially the you know the black community can grab old because you know <hes> we share blackness and I talked to my community as well and it's it's not <hes> it's not well accepted and last last time Dmitri how long black community finances taboo even bring up in the household? I never discussed it with my parents wasn't thing <hes> some trying to break that taboo one but also to <hes> the backlash will push back for a lot of people they usually are one or two things that you don't know the history of banking system which has been racist nature which I have an entire chapter dedicated to if anybody can catch up and one of the reasons they don't know economics. They don't understand that inflation nation has slowly taken the middle class out of America <unk> buys notice but <hes> you know in the black community wages have stay stagnant since the sixties <hes> due to inflation so even though people seem more prominent make more money you also spending normally you're worthless and bitcoin offers the solution to do the opposite <unk> overtime value of money increases and there is no <hes> human interaction that stops <unk> finally have a way to to interact with the economic system without having to go through any sort of human error so to say because humans do <unk> essays out there people <hes> you know we had red lining of communities where everybody lives are areas. We've had <hes> banking practices with loans where they've been sued and one of the key things in the book I put all of my examples within the last five years because a lot of people when they think of it like a Jim Crow slavery so that's doesn't matter but no I use examples from on these banks of where they got sued in actually paid civil suits from two thousand fifteen up to now so it's not like some ancient thing this is very recent and it goes under the radar because the same people who give you your media also give you money so so they're not GonNa let that come out. You might get a twenty four hour cycle but it's not it's not a big deal. <hes> J. P. Morgan call it a billion dollars worth of cocaine and nobody's talking about that controlled his that's. You got sort of the rug so fast that got fired. That's all your real. Maybe yeah I just I just WANNA correlation in reason I keep bringing up. The media is a lot of times <hes> in the black community. We feel so misrepresented in the media unfortunately a lot of times representative something that were not and I think bitcoin done the same old is ten year history is represented as scam posits game criminals Lizard Activities <hes> it's whatever <hes> but at the end of the day will you know really was going on. You have appreciation for that technology end. He will have appreciation that that should appreciate <unk> how do you how do you break that. Break that cycle because you said earlier I started that that finances taboo in the black even be an d has told me this before you just you just said it again. Why is that an issue and then how do you break that issue in terms of like having to start these conversations to get people educated because people aren't going to adopt doctor unless they learn about it can't talk about it but they can't learn Oh yeah absolutely and that's why not started first startup gabby disasters assaulting education trying to help people learn about it before they can dive right in but to make it not taboo in our community? We'll take time I will say that but I think bitcoin helps because it's a it's a new money so as not we're not talking about money in the way that it was four something that we can build for the future so I think even break that taboo just by. I basically introducing the idea in then using some of the examples I haven't booked to explain why should be important to you. I think people will discuss it more. <hes> and I think it'll be less while talking about the on has money system but more of a way to change how businesses done. I don't think it'd be terrible as much anymore. It's too much social media. <unk> generation is less. You know it's running those. Don't give luck yeah exactly we we. We got shake Senate. They spread the word she quinson like we don't we don't give a fucking is over so I think it'd be a lot easier to communicate with people when people get out there and I think people are waking waking up slowly <hes> to help finance system works adamant. Anybody likes it by on the likable. I know people like money but most people just like. I can't stand bank so once the next step is pretty established which is currently going world should be should be pretty interesting. Yeah I agree in. I don't know why it's taboo. I think you're right though the younger the younger you are the more you don't care about the taboo yet you know I I'm abrasive. When I bring this kind of stuff to my parents now and I basically forced them to start investing in Bitcoin opened up your bank account voter this where Zaire family link yet yeah and I'm just really abrasive about it which you know it's a dual edged sword because now the epicenter of all thanks Crypto and I'm? I guess I'm the C._E._O.. Bitcoin in my family so I of course but you know you just gotta be thought to answer your question Corey. It's like a generational slash cultural thing it and go with him and he said the exact same thing so is there any like specific advice in this book to to people riding around our age group that are trying to <hes> you know just open the dialogue with their friends in their family about cryptocurrency well. Let's stick to big win about bitcoin like you give advice to you <hes> well in this book. One of the businesses will find the entire chapter <hes> it's called the twenty first century economy family but the outline's every part of how you can impact or have impacted bitcoin community so it talks about business owners how you can accept Bitcoin <hes> for payments how you can implement blockchain technology to business. It's about <hes> regular early day-to-day consumers request at different places <hes> are you can actually use a stuff like lally <hes> foldout a different applications. You use actually keep the key big on circulating a gives complete solutions like I said this is the solutions solutions facebook and is not really it doesn't harm much on you know what's been wrong. What's been done by literally go straight into solutions? I believe we had enough discussion and I think we should focus on solution so yes. There are definitely often least exact thing you can do. <hes> even own doubts children it college kids hassle students are they can use it. <hes> you know one of the examples I uses <unk> you read about Moore's College. Kids should be doing the most mining right now. Does he have basically free electricity in dorms after rebates wishing. You don't have a light bill. You come dorm <unk>. Be careful trouble yeah. I've actually discussed with colleges because of a a Sacramento Kings. I don't know if you've heard but they have a mining operation. They have you can actually talk with the school and have it going and it will actually benefit the school and one talks about it my Alma Mater N._C.. State it will actually open to the idea now two two thousand fourteen when I presented its own that was not they thought was some scam listening but I mean this is an example of a way to get involved in community as well as different ways that a that people who have businesses can't accept it and Dan use it in their day to day so accountants professionals who are accounts movements of blockchain world engineers even on down to people who work banks. There's examples of people who have left prominent banks to work in the blockchain bitcoin feel <hes> which has. Turned out a lot of people's perception because it like well. People are leaving Goldman Sachs people even J._p.. Morgan <hes> yeah this might be a very prominent way to to gain in the future so a lot of solutions in there and I'm interested to hear some from other people's oil after they read it might spark a the new idea <hes>. I'm sure there'll be somebody has some great stuff. Yeah I really trying to grease that that lay to get people into Bitcoin <unk> you know interested in it in this. I see see that as a this is a great opportunity. <hes> you know for any well like you said for anyone but per black mirror especially like I think we like there's a lot of noise thrown at US sometimes yet between what's the latest dance craze and who's was getting traded to add to just focus on some other things things that are just kind of important and there's a lot of noise thrown at our community is that you're trying to put put at least a new signal out there these things. I like about a lot of something d you You've been talking about since I've ever known you and that's a trend that you've been trying to break that. You felt I think in your family and that does like building. Generational wealth and in Bitcoin is something that I think it gives people the right mentality to start thinking like that and thinking about how they could build something they can pass down to that to their family over time and that's not something it'd be from what you said to me. That's not something that people think about much. Absolutely I agree completely and I think generational wealth. Is You know it's been thrown around a lot in our community but how in I think some of this lucious people come with real estate gold some of these solutions they're okay but the growth that has come from bitcoin as far surpassed any other asset acid so <hes>. I want to introduce that into the conversation 'cause it hasn't really you know some people like Dmitry Lone Wolves here colleges yellow from the <unk> when it should be it should be barred by. Everybody should be something that yeah yeah. We're definitely looking to change the way we do business. Especially you know helping done before so yeah you are correct in generational wealth being able to own a part of potentially something that will back countries at some point point is definitely a good half having you know downtown real estate in New York in the forties. If you haven't today you know your grandkids can move into a million dollar brownstone for free so it's the same big line from that standpoint of scarce Garissa asset so yes general wealth is something I'd I'd talk about the book as well. It's it's it's pivotal is very important had used so have you found. Have you found that when you're having conversations with people in person like I'm sure he did within a few stops. I think you're on a book tour right <HES> next Wednesday Sacramento. Oh it starts next Wednesday <hes> Yep of his I've been doing local interviews and <hes> I'll be coming to the east coast in <hes> hoping we would get you in the middle of it. I pay attention because I wanted to know like what's People's general fear when you talk about it in in in public because you can always sits like what someone steer is through the questions that they're asking you out the mass of curious but since you haven't gone there yet maybe we have you back on after the tour so we can get some this -sulting I will say I've had questions owed years pretty much the same stuff in use it sort of like a Q._N._A.. Guides you know stuff that I have the same questions I get. The biggest fear I've seen so far is <hes> the price by people thought bitcoin died. I've literally heard the sentence about bitcoin died from so many people this year <hes> and that that usually doesn't come often there on research like I said before media media made. It seem like they're going up. You know loss value and it's over part is over. It was a bubble bitcoin's not going anywhere when we all we all know this case. We all know this is long term. This is way bigger than just the price with a lot of people that will not on the money if I put it in a lot of times people look is is bigger than that but if you look at it as an investment I haven't met anybody. That's lost money if they stayed in logged in three years so you should be thinking in three to five rob longer term investment terms anyway so I usually can give people over with that but that's the big thing they look at that person. I think that also through security that comes up I can get hat can be going get hacked and I'm like no no no Bitcoin hasn't been hacked. <hes> people's Wallets have been hacked. There are people who have been act but not bitcoin so when those questions come up I've done a pretty good job will be as dillwyn. I'm sure on his books. Get some crazy ones. I can't wait to share with y'all but that will be at out fund to see what Whoa people come up with. Definitely man record that processes you see like what is the fear that people have <hes> a follow up to that. How are you and I this is a personal task? Escobar's going to get a famous rapper to co op this shit so again so we got so close yet so close once L._A.. I'm have a friend who has a studio. Please manager for some big names and I'm working on now. He's he's got some people that are interested in acts after meet with them next weekend but yeah I'm trying to get at least one rapper. Do it with me. Not just say it is an obscene future. tweeted sociable eligible had a bitcoin song <hes> little thing. Was it up garbage. That was horrible. Can we get something he bri- on this one but yes I was. I had multiple twitter to try and get a little nauseous. Nasdaq's make a big song and then come to find out somebody made a parody of it themselves so of the Ol- towers also on we'll we'll see you gotta get a real ruin. get You thinking I mean I try to stay dry it. We'll be dray <unk> corey. I don't know how many years ago that was when I was like imitating drake singing in invest in the house so long ago the cooling baby ethics yes. It's funny here. People Missing Point yielding fewer rapid us on point. We need Riccolo cone of rap to come out and be like yeah a bitcoin all way but we'll see I prefer more like a intellectual rappers like comment comment. Come out something that made you think mall so not yet that would be. That's what I want for. I like raptor. Come out is like you want it. You want it to change the change the what people to rapping about you want people to kind kind of start talking about this new type of thinking in terms of stack and money and not to spend it on stupid shit right in placating to to she like being something that you shouldn't be ripping you when you're trying to talk about talking about this technology and so you get rappers to start talking about that I mean w wrong everybody wants to sound like I want. I want real rapper. I don't want it to garbage Elliott Bay Naza might fit that bill it's he's he's deep in a lot of start up investments and yes a nozzle kamikazes the coin base Angel Ways Angel how not if he's visa quite base angel now ventures sitting on a bunch of big pile of money. I mean he's a Ross is gonNA be piled hunt. He made he put out a song recently time but <hes> the he's he's still money but nobody said it explicitly so I really want might explicitly I champion Glenn 'cause it will be that will give it the I guess. The kids clout that it needs to go forward but you'd be surprised kids know about it. They just I don't know exactly what it does but they can use it like was there was a dope that was that was five years ago four years ago and that was already on air. Let's see what was the Oria that new show that's out they mentioned bitcoin on there and it's funny how they do it to this used for sex workers so knows it's always something whenever they bring up. bitcoin is is used something elicited so they still have that in the American mainstream T._v.. Real but you know sooner or later somebody will come up with something. I'M GONNA guy said he's making the big movie so hopefully his be better. I saw I saw a tweet <hes> from you. I think a couple of weeks ago where you're saying you number one customer right. Now is is black women <hes>. Why do you think that is other than I mean? I have some. I have assumptions but let me put my assumptions aside and and what's been your communication your feedback from them after the book Eliot well overtime. One one thing I've noticed about Nen is when you want to teach something. Most men are going. They're not going to say yet. You can teach it. It is Kinda like we'll just give me outline. I figured out so it's sort of like the old dad can't fix anything but he drives anyway. It's SORTA like that would be coined. Some of you bring it up. I figured out yet just give me the outline. They'll go with it whereas women that I've <hes> that off associated is it or help over the years with is more explanation L. K. break it down and then a force is also that synergy with a lot of black and become an entrepreneur we have the biggest rise in Blackwell Notch knows at American history and a lot the times when you're looking for something as an entrepreneur. You're always on the hunt for an age that we're live with business comes from four for learning about Bitcoin in seven his payments and things of that nature <hes> yes that is that has been most of my customer base voice over the years and is good see everybody who wants to be a part of it but yet like women shout out to them they've been around and a lot of lackland in Atlanta where I'll be gone. August third have started a lot of projects in going embassy down there and a lot of things you'd see black. Women are running this shit beyond saying I mean Arizona Shittu the <hes> beyond running that S- launch cordless flip it. I'll email you the one you're the Nordea in this conversation. What was taboo in like was taboo in wipe? People's world is money taboo for you guys you just like assume as their <hes> had we never know. Maybe I'm not this conversation. I'm not the best scenario we didn't talk about it I do my parents made a bunch of money but I was is relatively privileged like I. I lived a privileged life. I can't be a good litmus test for the Sepah thing <hes> grownup looking back I know my parents were shitty with money but we never talked about it but it wasn't necessarily taboo I just it didn't care because ships good yeah. He's good as nobody's ask questions especially as a kid either by going to soccer practice and going to school come home planned sixty four our life but I'm trying to think my caddie like I mean you've talked a lot about this type of stuff yeah a lot. How long do you see like this could be an actual tool to help break a lot of those? I guess shrines like Generational or cultural trends that you've you've experienced your whole life. <hes> what happens if bitcoin fails. I don't think it will but like the people are scared to get into this especially because like they throw some money into this and then they lose and then if they start watching it. It's really hard to hold onto something especially. When you're you're taking someone's advice you're doing something? The News at night and allege investing for the first time this goes for anybody and then they see a portion of that dropped him for something that they don't quite understand how do you how do you keep them to hold on and see the light and instill that idea idea like I guess I still some trust in them that this is something worth holding onto despite maybe short-term voluntary will definitely <hes> you know it definitely described Bitcoin as a way of social change protests <hes> basically saying that if you want things to change you have to basically get the root of it which economic so as you said with the price the price decreasing at or something happens like that between trails one other things I want people to realize is we have to try something new. There has been nothing done before that is help like I said before wages have stagnated sixties and I think we have to track and also from risks and rewards than point. I always tell people <hes> was was riskier. You know let baron thousand with Bitcoin and losing it or not buying any bitcoin at all and it because money was their system of world and you have no generational wealth to show for it and you heard about it no dozens of times what's the big risk so in a lot of people they think <hes> you know it was about ten years from now. Thousand Dollars will not end July one hundred dollars whatnot wind you life but you will contribute to assist in that will help with social change and at least if it won't Iryna banks it'll keep them is because when people start when people start opening going banks <unk> shit down that's going to be you have a banker that that lasts that will be going to the everytime <unk> doing their due but I it's funny because every time something doesn't work in that big little bit shit in they laugh when the regular everyday person starts saying that and it is easier no cap is made it pretty seamless. I think that's what people will see. Yes the technology algae is great enough to fight toward the money aspect of it is going to come so <hes> like I said even a big fail you gotta try something at me. I mean what more do what more can what more evidence do you need that we need to trust them. Yeah I had mice fans Klinsmann's. It's been real difficult to get people to invest in it but if you can find a way to get people to earn it passively with a shift or already doing then there and then they'd get some in their in their pocket and then they can turn that into something real. That's the thing it's sold. So how do you get people to so glad Levy said that <unk>. I say that all the time the easiest way to get into the industry is not to buy it is accepted for famous people give it to you and they want to see you can accept <unk>. You need some bird it or you can keep your so. You don't have to stop doing what you're doing. That's one of the biggest names I wanNA point out by this book. Most of the solutions are based on small tweaks to you're already everyday life so you don't have talking about the change your whole routine make the kids you sign search small tweaks. You know little things like <hes> not. I don't miss this in the book. I tell my clients light not don't eat out for like two weeks it just by some big one with that why that's not a big life change actually healthy. If we eat at home is actually the better so I'm glad you said that you don't want to change out things already going <hes> but a small tweaks and you can get into the industry and a helps the greater good absolutely yeah I mean I. I love that you said that because it's not a lot of behavior change a lot of people think like if you change the way you do sell them. You've got to make massive changes. It's like you look at you. Look at me because we're the ones a spouse on the stuff. We've changed our lives drastically based on this technology but I would have to and guess what I do- dollar cost average every single week. The price goes up. I'm like Dang. I guess I get less bitcoin. This week. Price goes down. I'm like Dang. Get More Bitcoin as we hell yeah at the end of the day. I'm getting more bitcoin Elliot and it's it's Kinda tough to to give you understand one. BITCOIN is one big on <hes> but basically is we explain to people that you only get twenty one billion in you own percentage of that out big percentage of that she oughta bitcoin. That's what you should be gone for. Armies associates any stack overtime the price isn't really gonNA matter because as as as you all probably believe in Abu is I think at some point in the future they're going to be so valuable. You're not going to want to get rid of so the U._S.. <unk> yeah won't really out you say a million miles will bitcoin at that point. I'm not I'm never getting rid of. You know what I mean this is this is enough to start a whole. You know a small island so I'm pretty good from from there so yeah. I wish there yet it because at the point go ahead. I'm just saying like how do you <hes> I forgot what I was GONNA say Shit. I had it in his blood on my completely. I'd like to <hes> I mean I guess expand. I mean the Big One is passed that point man. It's been here for a decade. It's it's got a mature market for as far as markets ten years is a long time and what happened. This week was monumental for me because would people saw was congress arguing facebook. What I saw was a bunch of people that own a lot of crypto that have power in this nation arguing with facebook because they own bitcoin? Why the hell else would they be arguing for it or heels Congress those those are congressmen and women that point now where our leaders owned this of in our defending it? It's not going anywhere. It's here to stay get as much of that twenty million as you can and sit back and relax styling I like out say that and if it goes south wing and do come fight me. I'm GONNA say hero. It's not going anywhere and there's not a lot of opportunities in this world where that's the scenario where there's a scarce resource. It's still relatively unknown and you can get your hands hands on on a good portion of it for a pretty good price and then sit back and wait for it to basically grow in value because more and more people learn about it but the scarcity stays the same absolutely and I I hate the fact that most people know the economic importance of scarcity but when you haven't asked like you said that overtime there is only a certain amount you can get <hes> it should it should garner more attention and it should have more like a you know. Jewish should be more amped up by. Are we going to do what we gotta do but it was way they you know they have to live the actual activities kids families lots of one on but like you said both changed drastically when you data this industry does changes your way of thinking start thinking what about things different you see the news different like you say he's not a Senate hearing but Mitri and I thought it was these people on big less exactly what I said. I was like Oh so we have some holders here if fighting for us. I never thought I mean Patrick. <hes> what's his name Patrick McPherson. I believe his name is he's from North Carolina actually he he basically went up and said hey deal with Israel. Currencies blockchain technology is here disagree with it. <hes> you'll be on the wrong side of history type stuff so I'm like ooh is be why women wait a minute were vis and you're like yeah just telling me they got a big ass pile of bitcoin somewhere and may mean the protected another theory. All these people in Congress have kids who have big lot and they know of they clamped down hard. It's they should is gonNA mess of. I think a lot of it's at bitcoin are introduced to it like Giancarlo from the C._f._C._C.. He's like he's like you know. Teenagers have crypto big win unlikely the Bitcoin Dad or whatever yeah yeah. I think that's what's he thinking. He's thinking I don't understand it but I'm going to protect my kids value that much over this or making up laws get in trouble so so is the greatest crazy crazy crazy <unk> gang from now yet. The Senate hearings leers trump. Are you still doing your podcast. We the gentleman still doing it. <hes> daily <hes> we actually just got off a little while ago Monday through Friday at three ish on the Pacific six P._M.. Eastern so still doing gentlemen crypto daily were up to episode four hundred thirty four now so still going strong failing crops the you <unk> Yemen <unk> how you hanging in there on a daily podcast like woods yet will the best bar I think about it is people who watch are very loyal white. We don't have no use following but buried very loyal and everybody stakes meeting a lot of these people they bought products over the years. They've seen US make predictions with three years ago. Two years ago at all these people they support nine different lineups so that keeps me going <hes> just knowing join our impacted a good group of people <hes> numbers of small but that's finally our. Have you know a few hundred dedicated people thousands of people into whatever so that's the end no long term. I think our work as far as doing a daily show. We'll it'll. It'll it'll show up one day yes. This is needed deeds Nobel capabale because it changes every day literally is something new everyday unless we were talking about this before we even started the podcast and it's like how do you keep up at this podcast. PODCAST has helped me tremendously and just keeping tabs on what's going on and the more you do it. The more people you talk to the more you learn more you figure out the more you get a better idea of the landscape of what's happening now and then like kind of like the momentum of where things things are going then make you better at what you do absolute in the when a news comes out is almost too late so pretty much have to you know you're innocent as you can figure it out after you've done it for a while same patterns same fluid saying you know that's where I get old. Now's it's like man. I've seen these cycle so many times starting to feel like the old guy yelling a bunch of Crazy Shit quarter twenty thousand people oh <hes> <unk> happy because we had a thousand candle and I'm just sitting here like again. You don't realize I feel J. J. bit but at the same time the calmness I have a lot of people wish they have had it like us columnist allow lobby. What's all boys like I'm not seeing XS talking about this like ten to twenty percents? I'm not seeing excess that I don't care from the ten hundred this yours. What is this <hes> so I guess I guess we wrap <hes> what would be some <hes> you know pardon words you'd say to the audience listening now as to why they should go could pick up the coin of black America and and and where they can find it you know absolute <hes> way it's Big One and Black America is available on Amazon for kindle? 'em Paperback audiobook will become a soon <hes> Big Black America discusses of myriad of topics in the black community as well as other communities who have been acknowledged disadvantage and it shows how bitcoin can help <hes> so go ahead of now and for people interested in Bitcoin blockchain technology by itself it also defines how it gets industry all of us thanks so is pretty pretty good across the board of explaining and keeping it at a lower level of explanation so they go that works on Amazon I if you want to join the affiliate program which had just just introduced today you guys are I e rotted. <hes> just introduced affiliate program where you can actually earn twenty percent each book. You help this old so if you have family members <hes> want to purchase it you know if you have a groom. Economic Group at purchasing bogey can do that and. Actually honest with money back from it so everybody can get involved and <hes> yeah this is a great book <hes> for people to read light read one hundred seventy five pages. Can we ought to read it. I'll pick one out awesome. I appreciate this absolute. Thank thank you for coming all man and please come back after your tour and let us know I'm chas where they what do they want to hear those stores. I can't wait. I can't we were back. We'll be enjoyed that interview with Bitcoin say <hes> he just finished a book in it is out in his starting book tour next week or actually this week <hes> and <hes> it is called Bitcoin in and Black America so if you are interested in a little bit about the history of the economic story of the black community and how bitcoin can aid in changing the course correction of that you should get that a book are you GonNa. Are you GONNA buy it. I am going to buy it. I feel like it should just been called. America is alienated half his audience already will he actually alienated eighty seven percent of his audience but we make up thirteen percent of ovulations. I was being generous but yeah a little bit too Hayman but that that thirteen percent is getting quite a bit of purchasing power of the last thirty like if I made a book called Bitcoin for sheiks like we'll probably we'll probably wouldn't be on the number one bestsellers list being number one but bit good luck to you. BITCOIN bitcoin people in automatic wheelchairs pretty targeted Nano <hes>. It's it's a great book. It's definitely needed we. We talked about a lot of things that you okay generally are taboo in the black community in you know you don't have to be a part of the black on the book to know a little bit about American history and you know how big winstons change it Russia so <hes> I'm just GonNa plug our stuff and bounce because his big quite an episode. <hes> we hope you enjoyed another week of the Bitcoin podcast all of our patrons that subscribed to get his twenty four to forty eight hours earlier than the rest of everyone. We thank you so much. <hes> we really do <hes>. There's a lot of goals that we have as a show and you guys are helping us get there very slow so if you're not a Patriot police become one pitcher on dot com bitcoin podcast network and pledge money pledge your allegiance <hes> that was creepy. <hes> Jesse actually send out the flaming hot cheetos bags. We purchased the flavor now cheeto bags seeking out the story there are three family size bags of cheetos sitting in my girlfriend's apartment right now in them out because reasons but they are there she gets boosy chips chips and some boozy juice and then eats eight him Tweeden. <hes> Jesse wants you plug your experiment man. This is the time to get the people going all right so everybody people who know him slack or that are in the HASHTAG random channel. I've been secretly working away in my secret laboratory on a secret pre-workout l. gummy that I have yet to release a I'm taking pre market surveys from people that are in slacked gauge how much of this I have to produce <hes> I'm going through the final stages of packaging and the logistics of shipping it to everybody <hes> that survey does help me figure out how much you guys will have to cover shipping costs you know from one end of the country to another end. I hope you guys don't live in a different country because I cannot take those orders. Shipping to a different country is GonNa be a whole new problem so maybe at one point it'll scale to that but right now. Just a the product is going to be thirty dollars for a jar of pre-workout. Gumy's way wait. You're there but like you're to the point words products like I thought this yes through like an ongoing okay. Well keep going now. Launch launch date is GonNa Be August eighth. That's the it's it's like a it's like a somewhere in between horrid in medium soft date but yeah trying angling answers. I mean potentially further down the line once we get the first few batches is out and get everybody's customer reviews in. It's it's all green while everybody likes it then yeah <hes> I wanna I wanNA take into a into account. The fact that I'm getting a lot of requests for this custom shape of gummy bears with ads so we'll have to consider having a custom silicon mold made and then yeah hopefully in one of the later batches will push that out various with apps but yeah the flavor right now is is called Raspberry Bitch and servings of a lot of Shit so if he joined slack I can post more information. You guys can paying me about it but everything's pretty much done. labellings done nutrition nutrition <unk> at the nutrition facts of the supplement facts already listed so I can tell you a little bit about the ingredients in the dosages. They're all like effective dosages so I'm not really skimping on anything. They're trying to make this whole process as transparent as possible so if these guys are interested man. Let's go the fuck on shark tank. I will rip we will shit. There is only one other competition for the same product and they're shittier compared to what but I made so wow ow well. It's pretty baller <hes> this. That's exciting that we finally have something go from idea to reality in the slack from the members of the slag. A lot of talk goes on in there. We're still waiting on a trading parody. Show from someone in there <hes> until then you guys can watch your stegosaurs patterns on bid stamp and not contribute to the big one podcast network <hes> what else so thank you Jesse that is awesome. I hope it goes very good in if you do indigo video. Can I be in it. I don't know if I was GONNA kick starter but you can't have energy future energy supplements elements on their apparently salt have to look into Indie Gogo and see if they have the same prohibited items list <hes> you could always do Patriot Cagey. I don't know I'll have to look into it but the gumy's are fucking delicious like everybody buddy I try to taste test them with like hand them like a real gummy bear and they're like yeah the taste like a real gummy bear and then I hand him one of my prereqs and they're like wow this is like a million times better and I'm like yet in a even has pre workout in it and <hes> yeah so like the first test batch. It's going to have a Gusher O._D.. On pre-workout Dude it's going to be so great no like the delivery method. I like the way we're GONNA do this. First test batch is going to be like a gusher so like in addition to like the Cube actually being one hundred twenty five milligrams of caffeine dissolved in it. It's going to actually have like a center. That's like flavour-filled Caffeine. It's like an additional two hundred milligrams so lacking in twenty five yeah dude for Cube. It's fucking awesome and all the other shit that Senate. It's amazing amazing really amazing. I'm body you. You could sell your shirts on our camera. I'll man <hes> all right well. What else do we do? We do some stuff never does enough the we have a book of our own <hes> a lot of shows. We gotTa Patriae on the donate page so please show your love joined the slack. Show your love the we have people globally joining someone from Australia joined <hes> a good time Joe. We were growing. What do you think our voice will be heard in twenty two time zones I did you knew that when we were one day we're going to be talking about Random Shit and people twenty two time zones are we'll be here mov that Jesse? <hes> didn't think he was GonNa Make Gumy's ads I did not did not that was going to happen even grow up in think he'd be Gomez. They're not so if this does become a wild success. What's going to happen to your Pre Med studies? I will still do it <hes> you're you're. You're different breed. Mr Brok manage it help had he can manage. At least you know you get the situation <hes> well. That's it guys thank you for listening to another <hes> show the SEQUIN podcasts up to sixty six. It's been good big. One <HES> GOJIC OUT BITCOIN is as book by clicking the link in this show description and hey you kick back twenty percent. If you buy that book through that link thank you support the show that way as well and support because acres US trying to get a good message of all remember Shout Zoe Saldana is I see pizza and Carl Lewis <music> <music> <music> <music> <music>.

BITCOIN Jesse facebook twitter Google Corey petty Michael Bisbee bitcoin Senate Congress Mississippi Auger DART J. P. Morgan Paul Lieber Cherry Lincoln Marcello
Bitcoin Bulls Fight Back - Gap Fill or Continued Doom?  Is EOS in trouble or is Novogratz wrong?

Breaking Bitcoin (Audio)

1:58:24 hr | 11 months ago

Bitcoin Bulls Fight Back - Gap Fill or Continued Doom? Is EOS in trouble or is Novogratz wrong?

"New Information reveals that Galaxy digital has just sold all of their loss holdings. Is this a sign of future trouble full for the weathered blockchain or is Mr Nova Rats just falling victim to market panic. Meanwhile over in Bitcoin Wick City the struggle for market dominance continues unabashedly and unabated. What is the best setup for today's volatility? Stay tuned for another exciting episode of Breaking Bitcoin. The Coin Sir. I'm camp and low at Todd. Donna Otto and this is breaking breaking may be. Hey guys welcome back to another episode of Breaking Bitcoin with your host to Justin Wise Lead analyst and senior mentor. You're at cracking CRYPTO CURRENCY DOT com. Hopefully guys who are doing fantastic wherever you happen to be tuning in from whether you're watching us from across youtube twitch Eli facebook live or Roku with the investor your news channel APP. It doesn't matter pleasure to have us here with pleasure to have you with us here today as we break down the markets and give our thoughts and analysis on what is currently going doing on this is of course your daily source for mark update sentiment and news for traders again. We've got a fantastic show for yesterday if you want to support what we're doing here make sure to subscribe. If you're watching us on. Youtube gives us a follow shares around over there on twitch. Andy Live highly appreciated and huge shutouts. Everybody watched it on. Eli Today as we normally do going to make. Sure I load up that chest rest here in just as and boom and of course course we will be opening up that chest after the first break. We're GONNA be talking about today. We're GONNA be talking about Galaxy digital we're going to be giving you guys in update on the heck's I don't know what else to call all it token sale We're GONNA be talking about. Obviously bitcoins intraday price and market analysis. But before we do that I want to give a big thank you to not only the new members to the community by the way but to this month's crypto comment giveaway sponsors Specter security coin. Make sure to go check them out at Spector security dot co fantastic project fantastic guys and let's do as we always go into the live. Scene giveaway some crypto to a random youtube commenter get into the live markets guys. Let's get going here. We are at the brand common picker. We're GONNA load. The comments for yesterday's video was a good one. EPIC cell signal confirmed potential plunge to four K.. Heck Snapshot Thoughts and Cyber Monday. Make sure you guys go check that but if you did not get an opportunity really enjoyed doing that show yesterday. We talked about a whole lot. So so let's randomly pick a winner and it was windy. Congratulations my friend. I think this is win number six for you. I appreciate it for the support. As always and a very three steady consistent commenter you are with the very steady safe consistent Gama. Thank you so much my friend. Hopefully you have a fantastic Tuesday. Let's go to mm-hmm and we find ourselves here in the live scene guys Let's just get right into the daily scuttled but we do have a two hour. Confirm Long Signal here from the to our system right here on the lower timeframes. We are currently breaking above the point of control very hesitant to take longs in this situation but in full disclosure. I do have a long. I just opened up literally minutes right before the show Playing the potential breakout The probability on it is not higher air than fifty percent. I will grant that due to the fact that we are again all we need to do is look at the larger macro trend realized that the trend is to the downside that makes taking longs counter counter-trend by nature but again when I see that nice price action setup that I do like to see where we do. Run up to resistance in this case the point of control on the daily VP. Sv a form from that high or low above the median of that range between low and high and then go for that kind of breakout on consistent volume moving sideways again. People are going to look at this in a myriad of different wiz But it's again just a very very simple setup so that is where I'm currently positioned. That's what my that's where my head is currently now again. The only bullish thing that we have going for us right right now on the wider timeframe is the gap is the CME gap and we talked about this yesterday. This was brought to my attention again. Although it is somewhat of a mean team gaps do have a high probability to be filled with bitcoin trading. We do have to realize that again. Just as Crypto daily pointed out so single in that video that I referenced yesterday derivatives. Do I do push bitcoins price. Not the other way around our expertise markets and our CME markets do run price and as we've noticed gaps do have a high probability ability to be filled now from a larger perspective. There is not really anything quite bullish in fact The only again the only thing that is bullish is this potential. You'll see me gap and the mess. Oh timeframe price action. That's really all that we're seeing right now on today's On today's chart again we spoke about yesterday. The monthly cell signal pointing price is down forty nine hundred the weekly closing extremely bearish as well the daily not giving us a lot of hope or opportunity however again. This is another thing that we talked about yesterday on the daily Let's go to the daily here Seemed to have changed. Okay we'll just go to. BTC You actually. We can just look at it all here on the CMS and go to the daily and bring up the baseline The only thing that we talked about Yesterday was that reversal base line bounce again. The only generally the only type of reversal setups that we do like to look for on the daily and this is when price comes down to our baseline and it gives us a nice bounce off of that and we talked about this yesterday Yesterday I expected to see one or two candles upside if rather than a sharp plummet down through the baseline baseline bounce in combination with kind of the CME gap a lot of individuals trying to buy into that for that potential trade. But Monday was down. Candle do after remember that according to again the analysts in our community One popular theory. That floats around very common. Is that the direction of Monday's candle salie dictates price action for the remainder of the week. So For those of you looking to just take trades in the direction of the dominant trend again. This is Jen. Probably not a trade that you're GONNA be entering Not Looking to go along under any circumstances under any perspectives. You would only be looking to go short We can see that the trend on the Ranko charges bearish we can see that. The trend on the daily bearish is the monthly as bearish the weekly as bearish on when all of these things are perished them. We're only looking to take trends in the direction of the dominant trend direction. I think I repeated myself a a couple of times there but you guys in we cover this all the time. Cover this all the time Couple little updates here real quick before we go on the cyber Monday sale is over. I want to give a huge shot. That's all all the members who joined the premium trading group. We had a great on boarding session yesterday. A lot of guys showed up for that. So is a pleasure to introduce you guys to our community point you guys in the direction of the resources all the educational material real that we do have in our community for you guys looking forward to mentor. You guys looking forward to trading with you guys as we continue to move forward I give a big shout out to Alex Davinci closing coming out this month's PNL. I'm in the process of doing the position size adjustments. That'll be done very very shortly. And then we'll publish those results live. I as we do every single month publishing our results also to be as objective and transparent as possible with how we run our group with how we publish our results with how we share our trades with how share our education so be looking for those on twitter. We'll also be talking about them here on the group Initial results are looking at roughly individual trader myself about a thirty percent. US DP and L. A.. For the month of November. Good month for me And for the other traders Right in that same ballpark as while the finish numbers Tonight's I'll finish up that project tonight And then I'll have those results will probably talk about them on the Stream live tomorrow and will also be publishing those on twitter. Once they're done Scott does a nice job of Compiling the data and making it very accessible for you guys Website discord integration is. None I wanNA give an announcement. Obviously to the premium members. This was announced in the discord. But you guys do need to go go to the website if you are a member and log into the website via discord by December eight th th. The new system is automated. We do have a new auditing script that manages all our permissions not only to your educational content but also to the premium channels on the discord. And we do need to get all the members into the new database so that everything can be automated automated So please make sure that you go to the website and log in by December eight th so you do not experience any delays in your service. If you guys have any questions about that I just feel free to message. Judge me and I appreciate your patience and cooperation advance The new crypto currently interviewing insights video with Silvio MacAulay of Alga rand Should be out in the next couple of days. Uploaded to the Youtube Channel. Really excited about that again. Very hot on its heels are going to be a Samson Mao. My interview with Samson Mallet blockchain week and Naomi Brockwell they only Brockwell. That will be coming out as well following that. We're also going to be having obviously interviews with Pie We talked with Casper labs. We talked with Z.. Coin we talked with We talked with the BITCOIN and friends. By the way if you guys are fans of the bitcoin infringe show as I am good guys. Good people great. Shell funny as all heck and if you don't know what I'm talking about go google or excuse me go to youtube and just type within bitcoin and friends and watch that it will change your life. it's also great. It's it's funny. It's educational if you don't know the history of Bitcoin win but they pitched the show to adult swim and they had the Beta I guess premier I think it was a Sunday night. It was search Saturday Sunday morning Saturday night at two o'clock eastern standard time. So you were able to catch swim if any of the agents were up watching that when these Li- types in Monday in the tree I need to back test this yes everything should be back tested. let's see her I'll I added crack into Kudrow agr on published that on trading view by request for the premium members I will be publishing volatility. Expand her This month As well as new module for pathways to profit on the baseline it will be coming out this month. Of course there is. Everybody knows this There is if you go to the Premium Webinar series the the the educational The academy information other is of course course they baseline educational video there. And it's really I mean that that that's really the heart and soul of what you need. But obviously as we do we're going to be compressing that in compiling that directly correlate to not only the pine scripting and the Algorithms back testing that we've learned during the course but also the manual back testing just overall strategy construction that we've learned in the course as well so I wanna make sure that I correlate that also have compiled a lot of good FAQ's again. Most of those are answered in the VIP s many things that I've done And already in the existing literature that we've published in our course but It's just a good opportunity for me to make further educational videos as well as I'm going to be doing another module on Pine scripting during this month as well so really excited guys. We've got a lot We've got a lot coming up Really looking forward to To our growth and progress this month and again just continued strengthened. Profit guys. It's a good good month. Look into closeouts looking to close out December very strong twenty nineteen has been a fantastic year for us myself obviously as a traitor and for our community as a whole we've just grown and grown Introduced a lot of new guys. And you know it's just been a pleasure honestly to walk so many You know Granted more gentleman the ladies but if you ladies in in the process of creating Back tested and consistently profitable algorithms and strategies and setups and just teaching them. You know not only the psychological disciplined but the patients and mentality that is required to be a traitor and be successful in this field so I'm really excited for our continued progress in twenty twenty. Obviously we've got some very exciting things coming up. We've got the having coming up. We just need to get through this monthly cell signal. We just need to finally bought them out get an spike down to the forty nine hundred five thousand dollar region. Shakeout the weak hands and we can progress as as usual as we do need. Give me one of those by bit. Brawl sweaters actually. Yeah please yet Jason Get a hold of me man I can. I can get you all right. So let's Busy Day in the chat today as well. How are you guys doing? Let's let's say let's do a little roll call here to the Chat Mr Ether. What's trees crypto? Comedian trees. Good to see you my friend Mr says you are the product of the five people closest to you does account if their youtubers. Yes yes it is Bob Smith thank you so much sir you are awesome capricorn. Good Day to you as well We've got Marlin Marlin Jones in the house. Bob Smith says is it possible for the cost of mining one. Bitcoin too far exceed the price of one bitcoin. For how long would this be able to go on for two weeks until the difficulty adjusts dark Rico. Good to see Ya. John McAfee said the last bitcoin mind will cost seven billion dollars to mind. Do you think Goran Paste reach a seven billion dollar Bitcoin by the time the last bitcoin is mind You know I'm not gonNA I don't really have a firm comment on that. I think that if we ever reached those meteoric levels then the Matrix medium Again becomes very very very cogent to. What's going to what to what is happening when we talk about bitcoin and the global economy? Where where you know you've heard the MEME Where the gentleman is being taught about bitcoin and and he says wait a second so you mean to tell me that one day I can take these bitcoin and trade them in for lots of cash and then it switches to the other guy and the other guy says no Neil? I'm telling you that by by the time you're able to or what does he say he says I know Neil. I'm telling you when you're ready you won't have to so I think if we do get on pace is to reach seven billion dollars. Bitcoin than the term seven billion dollar. Bitcoin will not mean anything. Of course it will still be tradable against an asset. I don't think that Bitcoin Bitcoin is going to replace all forms of currency around the world. I think that it's going to be In its proper use case And when globally distributed and globally globally adopted. It's probably going to be go to store a value for final settlement. I think that large institutions or large settlements will occur with bitcoin and and we'll either have secondary solutions either. Second layer solutions very similar to the lightning network. Ore will even potentially be utilizing other Other coins Either You know that run on top of the protocol or that runs subsidiary to the protocol with Oracle's when we get that figured out You know the what the future holds for us. Technologically I don't think that any of us have the capacity to grasp how drastically the world will change if you just go back. Twenty years in human history It would be fairly unfeasible reasonable to understand cloud storage to understand streaming To understand you know mobile technology to understand you know understanding what we're starting to learn with quantum quantum physics To you know looking at singularities and artificial intelligence and You know genetics What what's happening with Crisper For example in genetic modification. That's reality that we're GONNA be dealing with with nanotechnology Looking at the act of ratification of disease looking at the act of ratification of illness must battling the aging process. All of these things are happening in a reality and so in the world of finance and money For anybody to sit here and speculate you know what is the future GonNa look like. I'm it's very similar to just what people have done. Throughout history you know we paint fantasy architectures and we paint you know doom and gloom architectures of what the future will be in it. Obviously you take your her personality and your experience and your biopsies into those projections of the future which is why you can't really get away from the human perspective in my opinion Because we are human individuals so all of our cognition all of our biopsies are all tied up in our projections the future and our analysis of the past. You can't get away from yourself which is why again I always start this way. The real path to progress the raw pathway to profit Lies in the mind lies in. Just this might sound hippy. Dippy I'm sorry that does but it's true You know one of the big positive benefits of being in our trading community or being in any trading community or having a network of friends and family that are supportive of what you're doing especially as a traitor because generally as a traitor. You kind of feel like you're out there by yourself. It's you against the market and a zero sum. I'm technically negative sum game in the form of Bitcoin and it can be very at times lonely and it can be very challenging. Psychologically specially if you haven't been taught the right way and especially if you do not have that community you need that community not to tell you like when the take along or when to take a short but to tell you that you're not a bad person the tell you that it's okay to not know what to do to tell you that it's okay that you had a loss to tell you that it's okay that You're confused to tell you that it's okay that you're panicking and just pull you back. Act Down and keep you grounded on keep you mentally say in in a good place Because that is when the best progress comes from. You know some of the best breakthroughs that I've had developing strategies. Oh Jeez is sitting here looking. Price Action trading getting frustrated and instead of going into the black hole of revenge trading or needing to to recoup that loss. That shit was a loss man. Wash that in an. There's I'm not getting that back. It's done that's over with my strategy. Didn't work in this market condition addition. I'm just GONNA wash this trade and I get up. I Walk a comeback to my computer and I go back to coding and I work on Strategy Building or mentor individuals. And some of the biggest breakthroughs that I've made as a traitor have come under those conditions. Right where I have actively chosen to go down the path of growth instead of the path path of. I'm just going to stay here and be mad and pissed off angry. Nothing good comes out of Ireland locked locked on Leonard Benghazi and my friend narrowed is again just little and you guys know what a ban so I did. Not sign off on that copy Ta Master Jay's flow field flow just radd the flow man moonshine fuel asks if I am claiming my hex. I don't have any plans to claim my personal hacks right now i. It seems that I was incorrect about the snapshot date. So my that on that one Which Kinda lets you know that I really wasn't apps? Really interested in Heck's The only one of the only reasons why decided to take a look at it because you know I saw the fervor in the community. I wanted to make my opinions on it known again. I don't see any evidence that hacks is a quote unquote scam right. The fact that you can send theory him in return for the heck's token concerns me for the the same reason that it's always concerned me for all ICO's Obviously that just creates an environment. Where fraud is possible? I don't see anything on the surface from what I have seen in understand and read about hacks that makes it any more of a scam than anything else right You know in fact. Richard Hart is a scammer right. I think that he has an honest Schill right. He's very upfront about who he is and what he does right which puts him firmly in the gray category in the middle right and not in the dark black hole of individuals that are known to just lie cheat steal and take your money and run right again. I weren't on this Gospel but I do not have any plans to claim my personal habits and for me. That's the concerns that I talked about yesterday. Right right one of the primary reasons. I hold the amount of Bitcoin that I hold in. Cold storage is to have uncomfortable funds and I have no desire to reveal my ut a-x-i-o-s blitzen associated associated with a theory and address on the blockchain on theorem You know I've taken great pains to do my bitcoin holdings the proper way as insofar as acquiring the bitcoin and and so far as storing the bitcoin and so far is not associating. Ut X. splits and that's all for my personal privacy and security and I have no desire to re undo undo several years of work To get some free x right in fact and again I I. I said this yesterday again for the same concerns. If I were to get hacks I would most likely send a theory of tax write. I'm not recommending. Anybody does that. I haven't done that but at the same on the same table. I'm not saying anything negative about. I don't see anything negative about it. I actually think it's Kinda interesting right like it's a very in your face. Bladen pump a mental built into the coin. Let's pump this shit to the moon. Let's all get rich. And the dudes are being honest and open about what it is. And what is designed to do so You know could it be the biggest. Take your money and run scandal. Absolutely could Am I not participating. Because I'm overly concerned about that. No I mean if I were to participants accede throw like a you know throw a small and you know like one percent or something half a percent or something of my portfolio in new. It's you know it's the moon shots. Heathrow your moon shots in an effects is your moonshot more power to you. I don't have anything actively negative or positive to say about it to be quite honest. What do I use the one second Ranko for scalping trades on the lower timeframe so ranko is not time based so the only only reason why Ranko is on the one second chart is so that I can calculate the lowest tick data right so ranko only changes if price changes so so You just want to set it to the lowest possible parameter to get the lowest tick value now since I have the premium plan for trading view. I all the way down to the one second chart. which is the best right if if you're looking at Ranko determined trend or if your trading ranko whatsoever you want to have it on the lowest tick value whatsoever as you can see Ranko has not changed whatsoever. In fact it's it's had to red bricks here for about two days so ranko doesn't move and less price moves it's not time based The only reason again why I said it down to the lowest possible timeframe is so I don't have to wait. Correct code updates if price moves right so if you for example if you have ranko set to the hourly Chart Ranko won't update until an hourly bar closes but if price moves within that one hour span enough to give a signal on Ranko then you're GonNa miss that signal so you want to start Ranko to the lowest possible setting setting that you have always Naomi Brockwell is a boss. Yes she is. So Bob Smith again. So Bob Smith. I'd recommend recommend that you go do a little bit of reading on how Bitcoin Difficulty Adjustment Works Something that we've talked about for awhile now. Is this indicator right here. which is Hash Ribbons? We are actively in a period of minor capitulation right now so this indicator right here the hash ribbons indicator this monitors win difficult or excuse me when daily Hash rate falls underneath adjusted. Ask the difficulty level. meaning that minors are unprofitable and weaker. Miners are having to sell excess. BITCOIN To be able to keep their operations afloat. It can take two weeks weeks to a month for difficulty to properly adjust difficulty adjust dynamically every two weeks But we've noticed historically as every time this this is the tenth signal and bitcoins history. History that we've gotten an almost with the exception of one signal has always led to a violent capitulation violent capitulation of the downside. And this lines up very nicely. I just got a little spit on my mic. This lines up very nicely with the monthly cell signal that we just got on November's monthly close with our with our Quiz Rigo Stop and target system pointing down to forty nine hundred so I am definitely of the macro opinion that we are quite quite bearish the we will break down on this level that is again as all things market is dynamic. NAMIC that is subject to change we could have bottomed out again. We got the capitulation signal off right here on the on November nineteenth and we had a very large moons announced. This could be the local bottom You know some other things but next funding has not spike significantly to the downside Some people are considering this funding spike to the downside. An outlier and one thing that we've noticed is when funding spikes dramatically in one direction. That's often accounta- reversal signal But it's not very clear at this point in time because it's it's not if you zoom out it's not a dramatic outlier So for me the most important thing right. Now we're just the monthly technicals giving US overall direction And then anything that I'm managing As far as trading is being done right here and through. PTP My daily scan of the markets With PT structure. which you guys can see over here but again You know very you know just just full full disclosure All my my my entire my entire position is fully hedged ought to the downside. I am cash based neutral. So that means I can take traits the upside right now. I can take trades to the downside aside the funds that I have on by but available for trading or hedged. This is where agency usually chimes then to tell me that I'm crazy Z.. Jiji in my friend and I didn't I Apologize Mr Smith. If that came off disparaging I was like e need to go do some more. We're fucking research broke free. Come on my life stream asking questions. I didn't mean it that way whatsoever in fact thank you for the question. They were great questions. I love the opportunity to kind of just share my opinion. My thoughts mine. Alice's is this on the entire situation. ACDC says Hey Justin you are the most trustworthy streamer in the BBC space. That I know well thank you man. Richard Hart says there are at least four drawbacks of BTC as a true. And where can I find documents on this issue. Thank you you know I mean. There's a lot of drawbacks of BTC. Obviously you know and it just depends depends on what your overall perspective is You know like for example. You know If you if you really feel that the public blockchain should not be public than that's a privacy and security concern for you You know there are issue you know again we can go back to that old tired scaling debate which you know for some people is not old and tired for some people. That's a that's a hill to die on right. Obviously we the entire community split. That's why we have bitcoin cash. What's come out of that? Catastrophe is the Craig right disaster. Bitcoin S. V.. And now you've got a horde of idiots running around thinking that's the future. And maybe they're right. Jack said it very succinctly the next block is going to be one hundred years in the end of the day you have to pick your ponies and ride with a man you know and riding with Bitcoin for the last three years. Nothing's fundamentally changed on. You Know You oh you do a lot. Your head. Space is a lot better if you just you know just keep it simple man. Just keep it simple bitcoins. The most liquid asset. You know I'm able to make a very comfortable living trading bitcoin and trade in the CRYPTO currency markets You know I've added other asset classes into my strategies as well which allows me to be more diversified in. I've been very disciplined in my approach to financial frugality and savings Over the past few years and built myself a dividend stock portfolio that pays passive income income. I've been very frugal and patient and setting money. Aside and preparing for a market downturn and actively adding ETF negatively correlated indexes to my portfolio. Folio as well So that I am hedged short as well on my on my positions in the market in traditional market so scaling You know the law of diminishing returns as potentially something here the I'm not familiar. I'm not I'd have to like look them up and pull them up to two like directly respond or comments on the four drawdowns that Richard Hart specifically cites the I mean depending on your perspective. There's all kinds of drawdowns but for me it's very very simple. The reason why you know again full disclosure I got involved. Bitcoin for the gains stayed for the philosophy and You know for me you know what really really sold me. Man was the UNCON- the the reality that confiscated that they solved the problem that it has the network effect of being the first crypto currency. That it has some of the best development it has some of the best you know. The best community is around Bitcoin Although at times it has gotten a little toxic in the community is different different from what it was prior to two thousand seventeen absolutely. I've talked about that before on the stream and again that's largely the result of the universal. BITCOIN UBT Steve. We've And big block argument Split Debate Kind of toxicity that got into the space and started in two thousand sixteen to be quite honest with you and just why I mean it was always around. It was always round since since early days if you go back and look to bitcoin talk but really came to a head in two thousand sixteen and then obviously we had segue and then He had bit by bit. I think it was eighty. One the the the kind of game theoretic stig to force minors to signal for Segue and that resulted in the B. C. H. Split and now it's become kind of a carnival show as far as that that goes but the coin is just continued to charge on pronounced. And it's got against getting more institutionalized is getting picked up by more firms is getting picked up by more fun just getting picked up by. I'm more endowments it's it's gaining market traction and what's happening to the age I mean am I incorrect or did like finance dealers that I don't know you guys tell me yesterday. Somebody Bought Sixteen Thousand January twenty puts at nineteen eighty sold half today at thirty to sixty caboodle. That's a quick quick. Get Rich Man Davinci. Good morning to you my friend. Thank you wally. Yes for the Bonanza among that is not technically every two weeks it is every two two thousand sixteen blocks yeah and of course the names also Kuhlman bitcoin. All right so it is twelve thirty five. So let's slide on over to the theory theory of market real quick. Do we see anything over here for Mr Theory today. Two hour long signal from Mr Theorem as well on on the previous to our close very similar to the setup that we actively took on bitcoin right now again You know larger trend remains bearish just the interesting thing. Is this kind of same activity here. We do have the sweep of the previous. Vs lows right here funny enough kind of running up into this VPS vetoed It's where we ended up body out and we have this nice charge up to the days. Point of Control. Consolidation at the point of Control and consistent volume moving side was very similar to what I kind of pointed out and talked about here on bitcoin already again it is absolutely a counter. Trend Signal is absolutely training as the dominant trend and again less than fifty percent chance of a working. But it's the setup for the day wreck magic the cracking Let's go take a look at take a look at the other major today. So we'll come back to the seamy gap chart and I think kind of Emoji that we WANNA put here gentlemen. Let's just put a power button here so again. Just being very very consistent with us that that refill of that seamy gap is for me a beautiful entry for a short to retest of lt off. re-test of supply and it is consistent with the monthly cell signal. So we'll see we'll see if the museum holds true. That's the literally the only thing that's the only larger perspective thing that's bullish. And then obviously we just following intraday momentum. Let's see her. Go take a look at our other majors here today. Not really interested in trading by payers Again not only because of the the the competition. But so here's Bitcoin here's Yaas again. They just absolutely the same notice any difference here with very slight nuance wants instructor. Reactionary bounce announce off the bottom. We'll see if we get another baseline bounce after the pullback and that's pretty consistent for almost all of these pairs so very similar to what I talked about yesterday Just kind of have to pick whether you want to trade bitcoin or theorem generally theory moves on higher volatility. So you just Kinda have to pick the pair. Obviously the timing entries and exits are GONNA be slightly the different for each pair. Thank you so much my friend. Can I check. Det Not Mr Davinci absolutely android iffy. Thank you so much for the subscription my friend so let's look at D. N. T. U. S. D. so DNC USD has basically basically been like grabbing a stable coin. Right now Over the last week it has held its value very very well And again you know very similar to bitcoin price actions we can see overall tracking the US devalue. You know obviously if quite depressed prices at a very big pop up in value twenty seven percent increasing in dollar all our value. Just holding on to Your D. N. T. on this day so this was a beautiful day for DNC. You know highly volatile here. I mean we're getting like twenty thirty percent swings in its dollar value day today Let's see your overall good man Overall good above the baseline makes about zero line and above annoys above the dynamic. Zero slater price above the baseline. What Atari explosion is bullish? Got A rising explosion level on today's candle with little falling momentum so a little bit of a weaker signal but overall this doesn't look too bad. I don't really see any strong breakout. I mean the only thing here that is kind of interesting is the fact that we at this kind of blow off bottom sweet for liquidity. You know again doesn't mean anything. The big big big again. Yeah that's just the volume spike to the episode can be positioning. I always liked district and I always like district X. Docs X. RPM server stable Quinn and ice movement there from from its value as well L. on holding that value relatively well so it doesn't necessarily look extremely bearish You know I don't really like bigwigs like these cause it just seems like they're very very hard to get over But we can go kind of look at something like obviously dvd which we actually traded. You know big wicks and then now we can just see like we get we get secondary attempts backup. You know. This isn't maybe the best example. This doesn't look quite the same Obviously all the okay. Oh Queens have been pumping lately look at Matic. Maddox not really good example of this either. What's the only one that hasn't been pumping harmony? Only one that really hasn't been tracking along as well as harmony. It's been a little bit weaker. But Fetch Gotcha. I same thing matic. What about around L. Rhonda as well L. Ron Given a nice little by signal on the daily right here The DNC for you did catch. I got nothing for you really Davinci. I hate these setups men. It's hard for me to pick something out of this. The trades that I grab like the. Here's a good signal right here. Caught that movement can't short it so I don't really see anything in here that I would have grabbed. I wouldn't have entered into this candle even though of course it's a Bush signal. Yeah I think from the larger perspective and this is GonNa have to come with the larger coin market. You know it kind of looks similar to a lot of these where we do have a consistent level of resistance you can see it with. VR is well. What in the future? We're going to look back on potentially refer to as either are accumulation zone if price breaks up above. You can kind of see this barrier resistance that I've tried it out for us here which is where we have sold often to or it's going to be our Overhead resistance that we were unable to break above and this was a redistribution zone. If we check back in six months and the chart just continues to move down because that is an absolute possibility So really looking from the Macro Chris Gayle looking for that broader breakout. I don't really have anything for entertainment. I don't really have a strong opinion on this one during mountain ice. Jay says he finds it ironic. Bitcoin being used this way. Was it not an attempt to get away from people that meltdown financial systems like day traders of massive leverage. While I definitely I don't think it was day traders that melted down the financial system That was more actually a structural scam of selling absolutely the highest the highest I highest risk investments and repackaging them as great a securities and Simon Pension Funds Endowments But you know. I think that people who have that idealistic idealistic view of what Bitcoin is or what it was intended to do. It was developed to be sound. Money was developed to be uncomfortable money. There's nothing in that kind of contract or ethos or philosophy that prevents it being speculated upon speculation as an absolutely necessary part of any capitalistic market of any free choice market. You're going to have speculation. liquidity drives price price drives emotion. Emotion drives buying buying drives adoption. So you know I I actually view you what I do quite positively But you know I guess it just depends on one's perspective but if we want bitcoin to be globally adopted opted. WHAT GETS PEOPLE TO BUY BITCOIN and get involved in the community when the price goes up? Who makes the price go up speculators? You're welcome just color. Theme is called. Tim Burton go. Bitcoin Gold Bitcoin go. Oh the smell. Sorry in like six computers up in this place then that song as Whoever's by up right now wherever's pump and Tassos I hate you I mean that the nicest way possible the she excellent man Davinci? You're killing at my good friend. You know what I like about. Davinci trades is that he doesn't take trades doesn't take a lot of trades Davinci for those guys who are watching is one of our senior analysts. He doesn't again again depends. I've seen that Dude Day. DETROIT DETROIT Patriot but he grabs great old coin positions and locks in their US devalue great great addition to our team British nor team. While I'm going to stop buying that Tasman Houseman. You're really messing with my money. Right number personal. I'm GONNA give Midwest attempts to Ranch Midwest number wrench. Nobody ever tells me these things. Monnet power our up man. It is twelve fifty one We're GONNA come back from when we come back from the break we're going to Open up that chest Mommy's over there on d alive my not getting okay there. We go thank you so much for the world how they appreciate it my friend okay at discord discords. The only one that I'm not getting I'm GonNa have to fix that Web Hook. We got a lot to talk about. We come back in the second hour guys. I WANNA be talking about whether the blockchain's in trouble or not going to be talking about China picking winners and losers. We're going to have an update on Heck's because you know what I do is I look at the blockchain. I look at Cui Bono. Where's the money going and heck's brought in about two million billion dollars over the last two days and that money has moved now again? Please educate me. I don't know if that was blatantly. said that hey we're gonNA take the money sent to the smart contract tracked address and immediate withdraw immediately withdraw to a separate theory address that has no other previous inputs on what seems to be like absolutely no automated scheduler system system. It just seems like Oh. Wow there's like thirty five hundred thirty in their pull it out. Oh another fifteen hundred. Oh pull it out saying those are the things look at. Let's go bitcoin. Thank you so much for the ten dollars super chat my friend he says. Can we take a look at USD on coin bass pro please and then it will. It'll be in the BTC if you feel like it and if you're handing out wrenches Jonathan says I missed the first half. Should I buy at the top of the candle downturn like I normally do come on Bro. You've been wrenched Johnny. That line is much art. Seventy three eighty six. So that's where I'm going to take a little profit and then seventy four twenty. which is the to our exit signal? which is the to our sorry TB One and then we'll kind kind of reevaluate. You know. Keep in mind if we again stick. Look at the mess. Oh time for him. You know we are coming up into into a treacherous area but the lower timeframes looking pretty good. We consolidate a read a V. wop consolidated rider and eat the point of control in the sisal break. We've seen the point control shift up shift up shift shift up shift up which is good to see. It's good to see Kevin seen a big volume spike. Denoting a top either guess MARKUPS come on big volume spikes big violent moves big take profit candles and if you if you don't see those and the markets choppy and rangy then you don't really need to flip your position you can. But generally the spread read. The ads is going to be pretty small like just scalping the range it's generally not profitable unless you have a bought and then you kind of have to like the like literally plug your server right next to Mexico server or buy bits or whatever platform. You're you're Ju. Trading on scalping is not profitable for a parabola traitors you just wait for the opportunities -tunities Gus EG moves come after big volume spikes can see her that we've had a shakeout of the shore of the long's a shakeout of the shorts reconsolidation things look fairly bullish right now on the on the mess. Oh time for him. Libra not libra tells us for Mr Wally for we go to break when we come back so I do not like the look at us right now Two days ago we got confirmed a short signal on US right here breaking down below the baseline. SECI'S ACI's been negative since over here. This is the candle that see. See I told you to sell on I. You can obviously short self has us on finance so just saying And this looks like a reversal baseline bounce. We've already had a reversal baseline bounce fake out back down to the direction of what I think is the new trend or the potential breakdown and now we're back testing the baseline as resistance mingka's below zero an crossing below the zero line as well what Atar explosion has flipped bearish and the CIA has remained below zero for For a minute and again you know we had this nice blow off top you know. Is this reaccumulation before another drive up on a macro scale a potentially. I don't really see that at this point in time. We'll see if I'm wrong on this one but I think the trade right now is to take the downside and look for a break this range other than that. We don't have a lot of data not from coin bass pro. He bits connects you believe a little bit more market data here weeklies actually not too bad you gotta weekly by signal here Did you buy signal. No you had to wait to that. Big Old dumb explosion on the weekly really has not moved in your area but the weekly would still have a long trade so yeah. Potentially we still have that that weekly macro bear bullish trend daily looks fricking ugly though volatile. Though I feel like that meam I show it to you when I come back. You get your phone number. Those damn call lists. I've had three today I. I don't know man try different carrier. Never I get a Google hangouts number and only sign up for stuff with Google hangouts number. Google voice number mean. Someone's I bought. Yes we camp about right next to their servers for one five microseconds latency. Now all you gotTa do is get away from the thirty second latency. That's directly built into the web based platform so you gotta be trading via API and you can really get that latency downhill you. I'll I'm sure that's real man. If Wally holy says that that's latency they get. That dude is the master of bonding. You know wally. We're GONNA take a quick break my brother when we come back. I'll take a look at PNB for you and then we'll dive into the news. How's that an will open up that chest for the guys over there on delyth? Thank you so much for your continued patronage and watching. We're GONNA have a fantastic second half back of the show. We're going to have a quick word from our friends over at by bit's GonNa take a brief commercial break so I can go restock on water and the subsidies don't go anywhere else to this Jason when he first learned about bitcoin margin Arjun trading on bit mix This is Jason six months later after signing up for bid with the cracking crypto currency referral. Parole Inc found in the description below. They don't make the same mistake as Jason sign up today at Vibe it. DOT CRACKING CRYPTO CURRENCY DOT com. Alert Yeah and Yeah UH Yeah take a Welcome back guys all right so we did WANNA take a look at the I the D Lyons over there little chess distribution. I do believe while that is warm enough. Let's put the NBA Chart. The chart. Looks good man. I am currently long on Bemba. I took a two conference reversal setup on Bemba Think that was would have been asked several days ago now I am just now coming back into the profit on NBA here was the com signal to cough signal closed. Above the baseline and Dodgy candle that's is price action analysis and makes crossover right. Here means crossover right here. A little baby abolished but that didn't really factor into my analysis. One way or the other really this week I was kind of keeping my eyes on that overall Bemba's Goodwin and is a pretty good price appreciating asset strong an a pretty strong downturn while these lines are on my chart none of anything to me to be quite honest with you. The only one that I thought was interesting. Oh look at that if we if we do it logarithmic. It's different now lines are silly. I drew this line to highlight appoint. No you can draw another line now. Lines are silly. Price doesn't care about your lines But you know just overall I think Ben Bullock's good. I don't think it looks pretty. Well come down to a level of demand. Let's take a look at BBC are what to you on air and silly a little much This isn't super helpful as Alex would say we gotta drive back up in the point control might take profit targets are a little different looking up two thirty initially to thirty but we're not quite therefore signal yet for a proper pt signal so Let's see here. We need obviously wanted flipped bullish. That's GonNa take a while. See is getting back into Bush territory will get a confirmation on the next candle if we get a nice other bullish. Candle up here which we probably will if bitcoin doesn't break out if bitcoin remains sideways and doesn't actually give us that Nice. Bold beautiful breakout. They're looking for. Maybe it's born with it. Maybe it's just shop type situation all right. Uh thank you again. Men highly appreciated. Hopefully that was helpful. All right guys. Now we're GONNA be talking about the US we're GONNA be talking about Galaxy digital we're GONNA be talking about China. We're going to talk about all the stuff so if you came for the news now is the time guys. Let's get into today's crypto currently segment in our first story today so it appears from the information that we have but we have bad news for the smart contract. Blockchain in your house and that bad news continues to mount so galaxy digital's Q.. Three figures show that the fund the very popular meam Galaxy Digital Mike No Regrets Fund has sold all of its Yaas Holdings since the launch of the US may not. The blockchain has been plagued with several issues that only only seemed to get worse and worse and worse although the same could be said of many crypto projects which starts to wane and prosperity as they under deliver over and over and over again. Am and the US is notable as a top ten crypto by market cap that famously raised over four billion billion dollars during during their ICO now has a delegated proof of stake model and that has run into trouble as well with lack of voter participation on the network combined bind with known vote-buying fraud and this has led to a centralization of Chinese blocked producers being described as a cartel centralizing yaas validation nation and infrastructure predominantly in the China geographic region of the current crop of block producers are being accused of being indifferent to the US ecosystem. Go system and our fight on our in our failing excuse me to take effective role as shepherds of the network as DOS. System was intended to herald in now now he also has also seen a slew of developers and they're decentralized application projects leave or planning to leave the blockchain with the latest wave of network congestion ingestion troubles now IOS users are excuse me offers its users free transactions and. It doesn't do this and it does this excuse. He's me in a unique way to manage allocate network resources categorized as Ram and CPU on the network and these resources function very similar to gas. Ask on the Athenian blockchain now implemented a resource exchange called racks R. E. X. That would allow network participants particularly DOPP projects Decentralized projects to borrow additional Ram or CPU or network resources as they were required for their decentralized application development now starting with the Idaho decentralized application in October several smart contract several smart contracts have begun showing up on us us that are abusing wrecks and leading to severe network congestion. Idaho for instance allows users to mine. Idaho Tokens using using their unallocated resources. Now users began to leverage rented network resources via rex to help mine even more. Ida's leading to a major drain on available system capacity and causing headaches for projects and decentralized applications otherwise running on the blockchain potentially potentially more legitimately now last month one of the leading gambling DABS Yaas bet sent an ultimatum. Threatened to leave if the network congestion issues were not addressed Karma A social media decentralized application announced more recently that they are leaving four competitor blockchain lacks the perspective The prospectors game. AM is also planning to launch on wax. Now the community is growing exacerbated to say the least with the latest class of block producers. There's running the network being partially blamed for being too passive and not making network health a priority Dan Larimer. CTO and chief developer block one which manages the project and Code Base recently came out to address the issue proposing a new resource allocation model aimed at combating the network congestion plague quote. The single. Biggest complaint is that. CPU is too expensive and that is to unpredictable in terms of how much CPU band with you get At any given time end quote larimer explains in his proposal now he added that the CPU rental market I e Rex. has become speculative accurate and as a result. Many people cannot commit enough Yaas to reserve CPU. Now the problem has become so bad. That even theorems vitality beautyrest beautyrest chimed in suggesting yaas considers implementing charting to solve some of these issues as eighth two point. Oh is currently moving towards charting putting and proof of stake to address its own scaling problems with ers price currently flirting at all time lows community sentiment in its current state of depression and now even word of Nova `grats dumping Galaxy digital's entire Yaas position does the es blockchain blockchain find itself in serious trouble. Or is this buying opportunity when I know you guys thoughts thoughts on this. Leave them the comment section below if you're watching this at a later breaking Bitcoin bits. Or if you're with us here in the livestream give me the opportunity to hear your thoughts on this. What are your thoughts on? Es Are you aware of these issues that tell you anything new. Did you learn anything from today's segment. And based on these based on this information does your trendline still matter for the world having another big win over there in the chest graduations. My friend and our second story comes to you. Guys with our thoughts and opinions on the China in a situation as it evolves with respect to blockchain development and blockchain allow men now. China seems to be picking winners and losers users in the crypto space with a recent analysis of the Chinese crackdowns on exchanges. Suggesting some operations are getting the government's Blessing O. K. E. X.. In particular is trending today after its appearance on Chinese State TV overnight according to Matthew Graham. CEO of Sino global capital currently currently following the China file says both Wabi and okay. Ex will see more favorable acceptance and are being granted some form of institutionalization in China while finance and other international exchanges are said to be getting shut out. In mainland China and smaller Shadier our operations such as M Z and Biki currently operating in China are getting shuttered or actively having their operations run out of the country altogether I reports in recent weeks of Chinese authorities launching a wave of crackdowns and rating the offices of crypto exchanges raised fears in the community that all domestic exchanges in mainland inland China would face the wrath of the authorities and now turns out that the most hostile attitude was given to small-scale largely unknown operations abundance which was caught in the recent tobacco for now remains cautious on reentering mainland China and offers it services to the international market primarily Chinese trading remains relatively active. Okay he still carries about five hundred. Twenty eight million dollars in daily trades with days above one billion dollars an inactivity. The exchange also carries one of the most active derivatives markets recently launching tether settled Futures Hobby reported five hundred. Seventy three million dollars dollars in volume also down from their peak activity however of course the exchange has been instrumental indie recent spike of doozy Azam for trading. The market also absorbed absorbed some of the hall of the Plus Token Scam. So let's all have a moment of silence of gratitude for the lobby exchange absorbing the immense dance selling pressure from the fall out of the plus token scandal which we've covered before on the show as another fundamental bearish signal now. Hawaii will also push just to become a tron super representative joining a project. That also seems to have a favorable status with the Chinese government. So that's off. The Justin Sungai definitely knows how to market now. China's stance on crypto projects has been fairly hard to read for the infamous Bitcoin rollercoaster. One can just watch you know. Oh did China Ban Bitcoin again Mixed messages coming from Pie while the plus token scam was allowed to run for months before authorities finally moved in Now a similar newer scheme. I'm the cloud. Token is currently active and growing in China as well the exact same thing. It's a scam. China is also developing another government backed body to organize selected. Companies Interested in crypto related services the blockchain based services network the B. B. S. N. Alvin acronym will be a state-backed body comprised of mostly larger scale local companies among them. Who Abbey will be the leading exchange? That's the kind of the blind leading the blind over there and John. Now Hawaii in particular is quite specializing. socialising exchange as the exchange is still based in southern China with no major intervention from authorities to date while the other leading Chinese exchange. Okay he acts does not operate directly in China instead it does choose to base its operations in crypto favourable Malta. Now according to MRS W on the Hobby Exchange has managed to survive in part because of its distance from the capital suggesting in out of sites out of mind approach to the prevailing Chinese authority. The crackdown on some of the smaller exchanges. However may dampen Chinese enthusiasm for trading? One thing is for certain however much of the crypto community. Many of the Crypto community participants Hang their hopes on China to lead the way in the development and adoption of crypto currency. Projects the government's warnings the government's potentially warming stance to the space even if it comes in the form of regulation or even centralized economic planning which is most likely the situation seems to be a largely positive takeaway from most of the observers. Who are commenting on this situation? And now your thoughts as this more China China Fudd. Does this China thought even matter. I'm going to argue absolutely that matters. Sentiment drives price sentiment. It drives price. And what is happening over in China not only with their schedule Central Bank digital currency not only with the trade war that only with the I would argue at this point Cold War between the United States and China and Economic Cold War. Everyone a place him It is one of the fountainhead issues of our time. As one of the fountainhead issues of our time and China is in a position very similar to the United States where they can significantly making massive impact on crypto currency market and community and development and adoption depends on the year. It depends on the decisions that they make. Jack says as a longtime fan boy I am also a bit worried and thinking it's time to dump and go full es tarde. Mt Not Corner Literally just told me Yes for. Bitcoin Zulu says thank you not a clue that gas was in deep shit a possible buying opportunity after the shit really hits the fan five years from now only four to six coins will be in the top ten. That are now there to Yasser can be one which screws up. I hope that it doesn't now our final story today. We're GONNA be talking about backed. You guys didn't chicken out of that long on just now. Did you now. On the topic of backed backed physical. Local delivery was said to be a game changer when the backed exchange was announced with many speculating but it would lead mainstream traders and institutional investors to join the Bitcoin community holders and believers themselves however recent data suggests that this belief may have been a little unfounded unfounded with most backs backed futures traders preferring to roll over their contracts before expiration apparently the desire to own an actual. BTC even if it is in back custody was not a significant as once thought a recent analysis shows that only act fifteen gene only fifteen one five. That's not fifteen thousand fifteen hundred fifteen five more than ten actual. Bitcoin were delivered in October with most most of the futures choosing to be rolled over onto the next contract now backs peaking open interest seems to reflect a growing appetite for traders amongst our institutions uh-huh but despite institutions and professional traders being able to buy and store bitcoin easier than ever it seems back is not currently being utilized for that purpose and is becoming. The it's become fairly apparent. That backed is by no means a direct tool for physical adoption and while the launch of backed was seen as a good alternative live to an ETF which by law must own some of the underlying asset even private operations such as gray scale capital and the gray scale bitcoin trust GBD's Z.. Have struggled to gain traction. That's not unusual for futures markets not to take physical delivery and instead choose cash settlement even for gold futures backed act itself will expand with more cash futures through ICY Singapore. The coming days will also see the first launch of options on future. This is huge. This is huge options. Sion's trading is the most popular type of trading in the United States. This type of price speculation is removed even more more from the original asset and does not depend on ownership of course now some see the rise of backed and other futures and options markets as creating paper Bitcoin and in effect it creating the scenario to expand the supply artificially through fractional reserve lending methods a danger in throughout we've covered prior on this channel now while Bitcoin coin would see more speculation in terms of dollar inflows the money would not reach actual bitcoin. Holders or traders speculative apparently spot trading of Bitcoin in Fiat is actually rather slim with most of the spot market trading depending on the tether stable coin USD now now options and futures are currently all the rage in the space again derivatives Dr Price with many exchanges looking to expand their offerings so physical delivery at a time when most traders keep their holdings permanently on exchange may have had its demand over estimated and it cannot go without stating that this is exactly why proof of keys every single year. Ladies and gentlemen proof of Keys Guys WanNa have have the power of the community the power of the individual trader the power of the individual holder over the exchange. You need to exercise your right to proof of keys and we need to would be very cognizant of not your keys not your coins utilize leverage not to gamble utilize the ability to access margin on on your derivatives exchange which most of us are trading on. Because he wants to not be able to go short on Bitcoin. More in a bear market utilize your ability to utilize margin responsibly and effectively effectively. To keep the majority of your crypto in cold storage. Where it belongs and you can send a small portion of that to the exchange and continue to take proper upper position sizes relative to your actual equity with the proper risk profile utilizing margin not to take ten thousand Senate Senate to buy bit and take a million dollar contract not to take five thousand the Senate to bit Max take a five hundred thousand dollar position? Dow Ten Thousand Dollars Take Ten thousand dollar positions on by the only have to send three thousand there all right. That's the proper use of margin and that does ask cover our new segment for today. Thank you guys for joining me for another crypto currently news segments interviews and insights. Please let me know your thoughts in the chat in the comments section Gumbo. I'm reading it back in the price and that's the last half our show. You guys know what that means I see death cross on the four hour charter. BTC See I do not for. I am not looking for our across. I do not know if I should. What the fifty in the two hundred Fifty one hundred. Aw Aw simple. Moving average cross uh Almost almost a four hour signal. Do you have a to comp Ashley. Now we got a four hour signal to go along with over here one con over there. You're and RECOM- rate here. Oh my dear Lord you got some you got some. You've got some advanced moving moving. Averages mustard no. I do not have six month and five year. Moving averages are in no way. Do I mean that to be Deborah Katori but no that is not factoring into my trading or my analysis at this time big move incoming when I get thrown out of my apartment. Why did that activate tonight Google? Thank you interesting odd. Well Luckily for me I do not live in an apartment. I do own my own house so I'm going to have to try really hard. Government came and kick me out the House got McCabe even stole my baby to screw. The Pooch men worked very very hard to find stability galaxy. Let's see digital also sold three million dollars. Three million of their sixty four million wax while the cost basis of their Yaas position was forty eight million and that's the same as the value of their entire bitcoin and ethereal moldings at the time of q four two thousand and eighteen. Just went whole hog Aw Go so. Here's a tweet. From what does he got a bloody head this really. It's just a bad but few trade in this whole interesting very humble guy. Yeah From bill do the system. uh-huh Yep so this was tweeted on the twenty second of May two two thousand and nineteen. And he's like man. We didn't sell our Yaas. We are a large older of Yaas Tokens and then when they published their Q.. Three financials they sold all their. Yes Tokens thank you so much big finance all thank you for never changing stocks crypto. It's the the same then. I know that my chat speed is off by twenty seconds so that has nothing to do with me sir. That all youtube because over on D. Live there's about five five seconds lag. Hey crypt Tonia is late late to the party. Can I rewind and watch from the beginning on D. Live. I don't think you can but you can't do such a thing over on youtube by friend. Zulu crypto server says took profit from. Yeah well they they got in at the ICO they invested in the asset the ICO so they I mean literally if we go look at the Chart Yaas look at it on bit fanatics so they got in cheaper than this got in below ICO price so and then they sold back in. So let's when they sell they sold in May right. Let's take a gander here. Here's May right I got in. I don't l. let's just say at a cost basis. I could pull up. The chart actually see how much they head to say. Got In somewhere around here and and they sold in May so it's going to be hard to sell it a negative number. So let's go. Let's just say they paid this still a five hundred percent gain. We can actually probably go see. Yeah let's see if without download a PDF. I get the data from here. Yes so as of two thousand eighteen q one. They had two point zero nine. Two million seven hundred ninety the man as of Q.. Three thousand nine hundred zero. They sold Off Q one of two thousand nineteen seems overtake my quite half. They sold they. Are they sold half in q two of two thousand and nineteen so yeah. They did sell half of their yes in May an and then the other half doc. I'll pull up their full financials and see if I can't Run the numbers I know pre. ICO point six million three point. Four million the biggest hissing. Stop Sir we go off road. Mika with long I don talk with me to continue uh-huh and I got to Sonny my second. You get better though. She makes that smile. She's got that instinct she's volume on the Radi. Eighty overlooked looked at up. Here Harris. Okay realized gains thirty eight million the digital one hundred seven million to realize gains. You have to sell two thousand nineteen nine months ended thirtieth two thousand nineteen so one hundred seven million. I'll double check that number with with maths. But according to the tweeted also said that according to this gentleman somebody said the credible that the cost basis forty eight million so if their cost basis for forty eight million and they realized one hundred seven million. It seems like the only two axed justice still pretty sweet. But we'll have to double check that Hello volatility damn effect going on Felicia to you and your daughter my friend. Hopefully you guys are doing one fantastic wherever you guys happen to be Quite get up there the last cell signal on a theory and was really really good. Be a good hedge up. Oh patience nations. My friend patients my friend. Mr Jack Patients things come to those who wait. I have heard As as as Jason would say summer weather over here in Bitcoin city it shorts on a check in with the old crypto bubbles epochal. All coins have a nice day against the dollar today. Raven fifteen point six Madigan. Komodo up tells us up pretty similar returns for Bitcoin so again. They're moving up and bitcoin and bitcoin prices relatively stable within a two percent. Banda volatility coins are making you some dollars today. You get those numbers up for the brawl. You know that's that's definitely something you know me and Jason talked about this this morning. Just that you know. The Bible brawl for us is largely a fun. Obviously we're competing to win but you don't approach it. You know. Taking additional risk for example. There was a there was a guy who has like up like I was like you know several hundred percentiles and now that do just got blown off the top of the leaderboard because he just take too much risk. Man You get lucky you get lucky you get lucky and then drop out. I want people just treat every day. Hey as just another day of trading not taking any additional extra risk you know just that patient slow consistent methodical trading that is how we make money Yeah Sir uh-huh Darab. Ah That's funny. Fear and greed index at twenty eight and no liquidations nations pretty consistent volume of the last four days but falling volume. It is a boring day in Bitcoin. World guys we need cap the song who Bumba the I am really looking forward to seeing the final edited version of the Silvio MacAulay interview. It was probably one of my more pleasant interviews. I really enjoyed that one. Pretty pretty cool to be able to sit down with a guy that caliber Weber really nice guy too by the way. And what's Kona messed with my voice modulator. Now the true the strong brave of hanging in here in the last final minutes. I mean if you guys got anything you'd like me to look at or any final questions if not give you guys couple minutes here. Share your thoughts. Air Your thoughts with the crowd. Share your thoughts with class if you would and if not we'll start winding down guys. It's been a good show. We'll start winding down. The Jay asks for excuse me. Heisenberg asks by the way. Welcome to the community. My friend he says I see us. Ranko Ranko how relevant is it to my strategy. General Strategy should I upgrade from pro plus and trading you taking advantage of the current discount to have access to the Ranko so long story short you don't need to have Ranko to pt work for you. In fact Ranko isn't something that I've covered in the course right Ranko is something that you can absolutely develop strategies around There are several guys in the group who have fantastic Ranko strategies industry either as an ice rink Oh strategy aw is something that can be useful for example. You can use different components of the jar in the something we're GonNa go over and module seven. This is something that you can utilize for example different embar types for example you can you have your baseline on a Ranko timeframe. You can have your initiator on your Japanese bar candles or hiking. Ashi whatever's going to work best in your back testing this is all stuff that's fairly Easily back tested. I think that for again if you want that. That training discount only comes around once a year so I always utilize it to grab their top tier package and just Max out for the next year. That's what I've done it for for a while. I think that's a a no brainer opportunity. You know if it's a if you're really interested in getting your your your your hands dirty in your teeth really wet with back testing trying a whole bunch of different things on just seeing you know throwing everything the wall and seeing what comes out again with the guidance that you get in then that might be a good option for you if you just want to keep it simple stick to your regular. PT Strategy. which again most most guys are doing again I default to my regular? PCP strategy over over here as you guys can see. We'll switch over the daily everything here. Nice and neat. Aw but I think that Ranko is very interesting it you know. It throws a lot of traders for a loop because they look at Ranko and they're like Oh. It's just simple von Green Insulin read. It's really not that easy. It's not really that simple you do have to be aware of the downfalls assault stuff we're going to cover again a module seven But Yeah I mean if you're really really really gonNA go hardcore with the back testing which I highly recommend that might make sense deal solar m. k. d. said Miss Today this show but just in time to say hello just and God bless you. God bless you solar my brother Robert says please go over your Ranko settings. It's two percent of price for the one. Second intake frame crypto. Jack says the two hours about to close and mixes long time transformation. Look it up. I think it's time boys of gag ground to make up the brawl in the moon is in my sights. Let's Go Jack Mambi. WHO's with me? Wendy is just looking at bought to use on leverage exchanges like we use on three commas absolutely Ricki says the deal trading view is over. Let's see is it. It is not cyber fiber Monday the so you can still get sixty percent off off the next twelve hours. Apparently Cyber Monday is this like Hong Kong time Singapore time yep seeing it the premium plan. This is what I just bought. I bought this on Black Friday. I think it was like two ninety seven sixty or something with tax but it's two to eighty seven eighty us For their top tier plan. You can get the pro plus plan for one hundred seventy nine forty a year and the pro plan is one hundred eight. I think honestly I mean Dan. I use trading view every single day. I put in at least eight hours man not every single day on the charts but I mean I have it open all day every day and I'm always using their strategy tester. I'm always building always testing. Always charting I mean for me and for somebody I got four hundred seventy three days left in my plan so I've been stacking back in years on top of the other but unless you're going to be creating rating invite only scripts. I don't really see the big up for premium pro plus makes sense to me though while you're good man you get you grab that deal Mr Ethers with me. Halley man not a bad while you got a man ricky tease it for a stock trading also stuff. Yeah I was considering buying but it was like a thousand thousand dollars a year man. I was considering buying that which you know I can afford that. It's not a problem but I just didn't really think it was necessary to have live updated. SEAMY price it didn't make sense Insta- me interesting anyways guys. You know what time it is. It is time to thank you so much for joining me for another exciting episode of breaking in Bitcoin. I of course have been your host. Justin Wise Lead analyst and senior mentor at Cracking CRYPTO CURRENCY DOT com. Hopefully you guys enjoyed yourself. Thank you so much for your participation. During the show the live chat was fun. Thank you so much for the great questions. Thank you for the engagement. If you guys want to support what we're doing here make sure to click the thumbs up if you have not already really helps. Plus for the Youtube. Algorithm Algorithm helps us get our content helps people discover that we even exist. And if you like me believe that information is important if you like. I believe that people need to have a hub ha place to go to To to really decompress in trade from the correct perspective. Then please show this information out there. If you're on delyth or twitch consider giving us a follow follow highly appreciated as well and of course in always leave comments in the comments section down below if you have any questions comments concerns sarcastic sarcastic remarks. Hal even death rates will take him Mangas Other than that. We will be here tomorrow at noon. Central Standard Time One PM on the eastern seaboard ten. Am over there for the California. I NS NOT GONNA talk about Washington Portland Right now. It's nothing against you guys. Just Sam I am just saying Argh I guess If you guys would like to join us. In the premium group if you guys would like access to our proprietary indicators to our strategy strategy-building course to one on one mentoring to everything that we do in our quest for consistently profitable trading. You can of course go to. Premium DOT cracking CRYPTO CURRENCY DOT com. And whatever you do make sure to. Hop in the discord at discord cracking crypto currency dot com got a huge facelift huge facelift scheduled for the next few weeks while we continue and finish are discord. Website Integration gration to make our service to make our community better or everybody please leave any comments in a suggestion box in the discord or down below in the comment section. I will see you guys tomorrow. Trade safely and be excellent to one another guys took.

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eps.058 - LIVE - Crypto Wars: The Rise Of Bitcoin

Bitcoin Radio

1:31:40 hr | 10 months ago

eps.058 - LIVE - Crypto Wars: The Rise Of Bitcoin

"All right everybody. It's that our weight. Wait on every week. It's the BITCOIN radio live cast. I'm your man Joe Blackburn along with my other man right here. Jim Scam Hallway. What's up everybody? How's it going? Jim Jim what do oh man. It is just a brilliantly horrible weather situation where I'm at yesterday. We had tornadoes and it was cold today. I know but you northerners and even you Jim probably like make fun of me but it was like thirty one degrees out today below the freezing line. I was freezing raising. I was like what is going on here actually ended up having to go to the woods for a little bit today but But I get back and bitcoins been kind of having a Shitty last twenty four hours down like three or four percent sent no big deal But today we have a little something special to kind of warm me up. Bring some holiday. Cheer don't we I mean yeah I think a lot of people need some holiday cheer because it's doom and gloom on the bitcoin front especially if you're looking at these charge looking at these price saying looking at these candles We're on a downtrend folks get used to it. Hey Bro you chill out. You already know what's going to happen so tell me. At what point did you have to buy for that to be like a time period in which that sucks Jim What do you mean for right now for it sucks man? I mean I guess if you aw anytime from like the summer till now right I mean you tell me like I'm not mad. I bought a little higher fire. I'm not mad. Don't get me wrong. I'm not mad. I'm a realist. But it's hard you can't you can't mess with the numbers I mean I'm people are saying two point in eight incoming been saying for since it was three. I don't WanNa hear this. You know how to get me fired up and I'm already mad about all this anyways. Moving on today is a really awesome. Show it's our first really official Colin. Show we've allowed people to join us before already. Got Two people in the lobby. Jim Imagine that they got their slots. And they're already in. I see Jeremy and joe down there but We'll get you guys up here shortly folks but today you know bringing on people allowing folks you the audience that come onto the show to be able to to partake taken this to be part of this of this experience you know the bitcoin experience you know my goal and every day that I do. BITCOIN radio is so that if somebody who's never been in crypto currency before we've never heard of bitcoin or someone who's been in five years at least can have someone they listen to and isn't always just this technical or super nerdy or whatever might be type of environment where people are just kind of get bored quickly. You know we want to relate to folks and so if you come on and you talk technical Nicole great but we don't want that to be every day every moment. Every hour of every second quin radio exists. We want to give the opportunity for the average Joe. The Person Mike me the person like gem you know to come on. And here's something that they can relate to and I think that's what we've done a good job man. I'm getting the feedback. At least what do you think Jim. Now I agree with that but You know that's I'm I'm also I try to play the role sometimes of Joe Blackburn and he is you know bitcoin radio. He's Bitcoin bitcoin Mac West. But I like to. I like to throw a couple monkey wrenches into the system just to see if I can shake them a little bit. See if I can get get get the bitcoin from his cold dead hands if you will. You can't shake me. You can't shake me gem. You already tried today once anyways all right so couple of things obviously the bitcoin price as GM let us know Has Been a little bit Shakey. And we've hit US another support line here in this in the high six thousands thousands that you know if you look on a traditional chart this has been a traditional support line we lose. I'll change my tone until we lose the actual support if we haven't already by the time on the does actually it's happening You know I still feel very confident that we're in a place that can maintain an even grow from backup to where we've been at different times in bitcoins coins pass including the most recent past history. But it doesn't matter and I know that people who bought in or who who have bitcoin or who see their investment meant or their their purchase into a bitcoin currency. You know or into crypto. Obviously what they're doing and I found this the less you the lessened matters right the more Yonne. Wow the more matters so the simple fact is this most of you don't own enough bitcoin. And let's be real here folks. This is not a hateful comment. Most of you don't own a bitcoin for it to be like the most devastating experience of your life. Okay so chill F out. It's got to be okay right now now if you did if you own a full bitcoin encouraged and I hope everybody does. At some point you know have their own bitcoin. But only twenty one million people ever can own one. And that's not a lot of folks Jim and most Celo people right now that own. Bitcoin do not own one one full bitcoin. I mean I would say significant number and I've seen the statistics it's like ninety. Eight percent of people who were in. Bitcoin have never even owned bitcoin at one point in their life. Yeah there's just it's all about the fractions all about the little piece of it but I mean this. This is definitely your weekly like Chill out alert. I guess so. BITCOIN radio does hurts like all right. We'll check in with the chill out alert we got Joe Blacker and telling you the chill out right now But you know you also can't blame people sometimes we're getting a little getting a getting a little nervous You know after seeing after after after so many ups throughout the year. It's tough to see so many lows but it's all part of it you're right and look I'll be saying the same thing. I've learned my lessons when bitcoin going gets up real high. I'll tell you chill out. It's not going to go up for forever right like we're just on the other side of it right now. I've learned my lessons. I'm looking to transform warm. The crypto public until at least realistic expectations. Even though I'm not always realistic I'm also somebody who has a very high hope for Bitcoin. So I can sit here and Jim. You know this about me very well this point because we've gotten very close but I sit here and talk very bullish about bitcoin. Because I'm not looking at tomorrow's price folks. I'm not looking at what is going to be at the end of the month. I can't wait to see where Bitcoin is in the year. Two Thousand Twenty four or twenty twenty eight so you can shut. Shut your mouth when I started asking folks you know. Why aren't you bullish? Because I'm sitting here bullish not for tomorrow. I'm bullish long term and the weather that long-term is today with the alternative tomorrow. I don't care at one point. I bought bitcoin. I literally bought bitcoin eighteen thousand hours once right. Those people who who can relate to that I mean I sold prior to it running up. Sold it like some. Bitcoin like sixteen thousand it kept going eighteen thousand. I'll say oh man it's going to twenty foam bought back in city city baby and then guess what I didn't believe it was gonNA come back down and washed across eighteen. I was like Dad Gum and then it went all the way down right and so we all could have done things differently. But I'm not mad. I just added more. Yeah now everyone's just cash out for Christmas man. Everyone just needs. Everyone needs to cash out a little bit people going on a tear or this year. Two Thousand Nineteen going to be the biggest Christmas ever. That's all it's happening. It's going to buy right. That's an look. There is not a better time. Also this folks. I gave my story before. War and Gem. You heard me say this to you off camera to I once bought bitcoin for Christmas for everybody in my family. Oh what did I do that when I had all this extra bitcoin lane around back in twenty seventeen and then everybody who I gave bitcoin. And I'm not I'm not joking. I probably gave thirty people bitcoin that year right and upwards to several hundred dollars per person I mean I had a little extra wine around. I mean it was a good year and when I gave that out you know I've I've had people including my father-in-law he was like a job and watch my bitcoin. Oh man what's the person quo. We'll watch my apple. Watch tells me what type price of Bitcoin is. I'm like I don't WanNa hear this crap. Newark I will never get going for Christmas again but this year is different. I think if you're buying bitcoin and if you give Bitcoin for Christmas this year you're really good position to due to give it and then let people watch it grow whereas back in twenty seventeen not the best time to be buying and giving Bitcoin as far as what the worth in especially to prove that it. bitcoin might be worth holding at some point. Zev Accents I mean. I think it's a good time to buy bitcoin for Christmas. BITCOIN FOR CHRISTMAS DOT COM folks. Check it out absolutely well as we have the colon show. We're GONNA get to those. I think we we're going to be working to bring on a I. I think we'll have JOE on first and about about five minutes or so but my question for you before we get started. What's that you know? You have to listen to me. Talk all the stuff and bore you a little bit about Bitcoin and and and I know that you like it obviously give you crap a lot but my question to you is you know not. What's the price of Bitcoin going tomorrow? Now is bitcoin ever going to get this high again. But do you think more people are still interested in buying bitcoin. Just from your perspective I will say from my perspective from Someone relatively relatively new to the scene. I'd say interest drops when the price drops I Yeah I guess that are probably fairly obvious and not to put the blame on people but it's also like between the price and then everyone kind of you've been very doom and gloom just kind of a baked engine that for a little while you know maybe when things start Picking Back Up. I'll put my ear back to the ground and see what's going on so I think that's kind of my general point of view because I think I'd mentioned a couple of weeks ago when we were talking is like I I don't really look at the pricing that much as like as much as I used to again. I guess that's just natural in general just getting used to it from like when you first like you'd mentioned you give Bitcoin as a gift and when someone first gets it. They're like checking on my apple. Watch I'm checking on this Blah Blah Blah. So so I mean I guess either way where the things are gonna down point or not that the novelty of that starts to wear off news get used to it because you understand that. It's a volatile market and it's going to go up and down out and if you don't really have interest in selling anyways it's not really who cares but also like out of sight out of mind for a little while So at that it's just Kinda like especially with the holidays and stuff coming up. It's like all right. I'M GONNA focus on this for awhile. BTC's in the back of my head. But it's not to the forefront forefront that much now I think it's a very fair perspective Jim and you know I mean that's the same thing for people in crypto right so so I mean like I I look around and I talked to my friends and family and you know we address. Several times since since Thanksgiving was really gearing up. It's okay folks for you to be you know unsure about the price of bitcoin on a moment basis. You know it's okay for you to be unsure like the the idea that anything is for sure guaranteed will only hurt in the long run. You should be very skeptical about anything whether it be big win whether it be the stock market. There's a time to buy enough time to sell for every market on planet Earth period including gold which has been the forever currency right. I mean it's just one of those things so I'm actually sharing this indices e t right now and I'm going to go go ahead and bring on Joe here shortly Joe so you're cued up here for the next two minutes you'll be on shortly so get get ready. Joe Hope you have your material you have A. You're going to give us a presentation. I heard one second. Jim Take it away for one minute. While get this shared. I was just going to say one thing on that though too with the price being what it does is like you know. I'm in a position where sometimes times I get sent bitcoin whether for payment or whatever but now of the motive like as soon as I get it you fucking out here. Sorry sorry I can't old. It is because this is supposed to be my payment. That's not my investment so I guess I am Hodler at heart unless it's like a payment that I'm supposed to be getting when and a and in some cases now like just send me cash motherfucker like I don't want this shit. Where takes fucking hours to get to me? And then by the time I get. It's worth less than it was got them. It's hey fair but you know what they can also work out and your favorite and it has before I know for a fact it has worked out for you before you take the good with the bat for shirts right. That's all right okay. All right so let's go ahead in get. This party started Jim. which man a yeah? Let's do it also apologize for my Blue language but you know for what this is. Bitcoin no one's GonNa tell you what you can or okay not do all right so as we get moving forward. This is something we want to do at Lisa Wants A. Let's say once or twice a month when you say that we would like to offer this platform to the community where they can come on. Share their thoughts. This is we've done it before a little bit one way or the next but you know this is really where opening up. I've had probably twenty five people who reached out to me messages. Internally of those twenty five people about seven people actually followed through and hey I want to do this okay this how do I do this Boa. And then obviously I have some folks let the moderators and I asked him to participate tonight to in to be part of this and I look forward to hearing the community's perspective I look forward to having having people actually step up to bring to the table something that's a perspective from the community. It's a unique perspective. Sometimes sometimes it's a very generic whatever might be but bring your thoughts from CC. T bring your thoughts on twitter. Bring your thoughts from everywhere. You're talking about bitcoin bringing us. Let's talk about. Let's have this conversation so without further ado. Let's break this thing open. Jam Is the First Live Cast Colin show ever as a tandem as bitcoin. Radio live. You know we're GONNA do big man. Yeah let's do it. I'm in let's go change. Change the way all right so first up. We got Joe Carlo. Sorry I think and if I didn't you can tell me here shortly. What's out Joe? The show. ooh What's going on guys. Joe Jim how are you. I enjoy festive background. He's got the fireplace going. Yes I let me thank you both for all the work you guys do. I know I appreciate it. All you got to put up with a lot of grief I appreciate it and a lot of people. That don't necessarily speak up and say they appreciate it. We're we're out there so just know that first and then secondly it as a fun day I look at this as an opportunity. I get excited about them rather than discouraged courage because I think it really tests what Bitcoin is anybody who follows. Andreas nobelist knows a bitcoin. Is the sewer rat right. We're always getting thinks throwing at us. We're getting price hit. We're getting now about a double dip bear market. which I think it's things to be excited about because with every single moment it? bitcoin survives. It's going to get stronger. It's going to get better and I say that there's somebody who's been through multiple bear markets going back to the first twenty fourteen okay. I've sold it. I made all the mistakes but I wanNa tell you just anybody's watching this. WHO's WHO's new to the community? Because I think that's who are geared to the most important thing you can remember as you're going through this is that Joe said it's not the end of the world once you have tons and tons of bitcoin which she's unlikely for the new folks we'll come back okay. It is always come back and it's come back stronger and better. So that's that's something number one number two. You have to stop ops thinking about bitcoin like a regular investment. It's not a regular. It defies the laws of every investment asset. We have had in history. There's never been in anything like the censorship resistant uncomfortable. That's got all the attributes. got a finite fixed supply. There's nothing like when people try to draw parallels I'm the big Ta Guy. I've been trading since I was sixteen years old but he doesn't work with Bitcon our it's too complex of a market especially now the derivatives and the over leveraging. Don't worry worry about putting what you can afford to lose. And if you've got more money in their than you can afford to lose in your over leverage you need to be leveraged that's number one but beyond that just write it just realized I'm buying into this because I believe in it because I believe it's an asset unlike any other. I believe I love what you said. In fact I'm actually going to jump off I'M GONNA go grab a drink. You can have the show from here obviously joking but that was really well said and for those of you who may have not heard my episode last week or skimming. I think it was on Monday. Actually yesterday I went into gotTa start having some realistic expectations. bitcoin too much optimism. Too much pessimism on a short-term level is the killer for anything now let me ask you Joe. I mean you're obviously smart guy. We've had a little bit of conversation back and forth. I've obviously seen you in and out of you've been a great contributing member. You you know someone who i. I've looked up to some of the things that you said. And if you're not following joe on facebook I suggest that you guys in twitter. Of course you know but and I'll let let you plug yourself here at the end to rub off but You know one of the things I want to ask you. Joe Is. You're pretty grounded dude from everything I know about you. Obviously we're not actually like the you know super hardcore friends but I'd come to respect you to a little bit of an extent obviously for our little interaction. My question is this is as the new person coming in this. Space tends to attract get rich quick type of folks right and that's continuously. What pulls us down right now? We're doing two billion dollar Ponzi scheme mm-hmm if not more I mean I just saw the numbers a little bit ear there but this continuously happens like winter people going to learn like from your perspective as smart as you might be. Obviously we can't fix the problems or we don't know all the answers answers but what what we'll fix this. I don't think it needs to be fixed to be honest. I look at it like this. Okay if you WANNA regulated controlled in an ways manipulated market go and go into stock mark. Look at what they do is quantitative easing. Look what the Fed does with coming that is destroying the curtsy artsy has made our country great America another people had not in America of course just made America great okay our currency and they are destroying east by I pete and Bitcoin offers in all. Turn if you want. I think one of the reasons why people are are sort of a scourge about bitcoin in the manipulation is because it is under you manipulate. It isn't a free market. Anybody can go in there and if Awale wants to buy up five hundred million dollars worth of Bitcoin here she can do it. That's that's that's part of the beauty beauty. It's it's not a flaw. It's not a hug. It's a feature of the currency and you just got to be prepared for a wild ride. That's why he older guys that have been in this for a while. They're it just it's right. We don't feel that sin is yeah sure you know. I've got a good amount of bitcoin heard Sunday like this. But I look at it like okay but this is why I like it. I WANNA fed to the Federal Reserve to come in and pump up the stock market. Anybody's watching the stock market in this year. It looks like an off course. For God's sake it's up like thirty thirty percent. Why is it because you have all this price? Because a very small market space that's almost manipulation and itself right like I mean absolutely suppression of a market that's manipulated -able you know asset quality. And if you're you're right though like a on manipulated market I mean an individual can go into the market and technically selling bitcoin on purpose. Because hopefully it'll go down is intent. I mean manipulation is intent as as I understand manipulation. At least absolutely I mean do. We don't have this and and I think we're spoilt as Americans particularly we're spoiled. Because does we look at the stock market and socks. Go Up Right. You buy your stocks. You hold them next year. They'll be worth more than they are today. That is a product of the liquidity and acuity that the Fed is pumping right. But we know that what they're building is a house of cards because on a house of cards. It's mass and John maxine rights. It's backed by twenty one million back by code that cannot be altered even if the person who had the biggest bank account wanted to roll up in the bitcoin in Wanda manipulate. They aren't GonNa make any more coins. There's going to be a finite survive so when you buy bitcoin you can't look at it. Like why bought Apple Stock Stock to eighty announced to ten. That's a bad and now it's totally different paradigm. It's a paradigm shift that we need all just you the Jimmy but let's look in the moment now like someone can come in and pump and dump bitcoin right. I mean like I know where you're already saying but you're saying like how you're saying that that's more of a positive I mean I guess it's a positive because it's not you know being controlled by an outside source source but technically yeah like someone rich enough can just come in by a bunch trying to drive the price up and then dump it. Yeah right so you think about that. Let's run with that okay. If you were to happen. Does that scare you. I mean personally right now no just because like you said. I don't have a ton of bitcoin or I don't don't have a ton like invested where it's like something that would really burt me if it went away. Type deal right so most of the people that that scares. There's I would argue. They're over leveraged are too much skin in the game. They maxed out credit cards during the crazy. Twenty seventeen run and they're thinking goat all all assets only go up. That's not the free market right. If you want a free market that's not controlled by essential authority. It's GONNA go up it's GonNa go down you. Invest Invest when you can afford to live with EU worst case scenario imagine I always do an intellectual exercise in guys who had a lot of bitcoin. Do this to you think about what if bitcoin fell to five hundred dollars tomorrow. Would I still be here. I would I would right right so so yeah I mean that's kind of how you have to look at. I know it stinks because I lost money right. That's why I always tell anybody's going to buy bitcoin if you'RE GONNA do not buy thousand dollars with By fifty dollars and by hundred then maybe another fifty than another hundred and work your way up right better. They call dollar cost averaging for people that aren't into the investing world. But means is whatever you're gonNA put your exposure on do a little by little and don't go nuts when oh it's going up. I gotta go in and buy more. That's why we have these suites. It's all psychology. It's it's I think it's also the brick markets all driven by psychology. People are panicking right now thinks the end of the bitcoin and it's the ninety nine bitcoin has died in. It's going to go to zero right. It's it's at six. What is it sixty sixty seven hundred still Dan rea? Yeah I mean it's it's it's a game of emotion right and and you have to be smart with it and the promise you a lot of people in here. That are unsophisticated investors and they get eaten alive by the Quad. Especially now you have these quads Don. I used to create a lot more bitcoin than I used to now. It's so hard to beat the computers. They're they're literally they can interact chain micro transactions they can use leverage. It's so oh heart. I still do a little bit. But I'm merely I'm just Holler at this point because circuits is crazy about Jimmy. The shelf say what you want but joe thanks for coming on tonight man. It's great great to have your thoughts on a look forward. You coming on more often. And he's getting your opinion. And your your insight. I think it's tremendous Jim. This is kind of off topic and I guess maybe maybe would be in relation to any type of investment but a- and this isn't necessarily my point of view but like when you dig around online with a lot of younger people it seems like people are more going towards like anti-capitalist views on what does that say for something like Bitcoin de feel like Joe Either Joe like is that just like bitcoin still because bitcoin join does try to or CRYPTO. General appeals to more of a freedom oriented. Crowd does have crossover to people that. Don't WanNa like more social by. I guess maybe not socialist. But you know maybe anti-capitalist point of view would say anti-capitalist Majel lets you have your thoughts on this but joe go ahead into this plug plug yourself. Let us know where everybody can follow. You find you all you keep it a little darryl on the live in real quick I think that the the lower the people that are drawn more more at say leftist policies socialist policies. They that is because they feel rigged. The system is rigged. They feel boxed out of the system in the free pre-market because of the actions of people like the Federal Reserve Because all the money's flowing to the top because we don't have a free market and they're mistaken the symptoms for the disease. You need attack the disease. That disease is the manipulation by the Federal Reserve. Sali with I know we gotta go. You can more often also B and C C. Uh Joe Carla. Sorry at at twitter and thank you guys both. I really appreciate you got it on all right Joe. Thanks for hopping on Jim Points and I have. I'll cut out onto what what What Joe was saying there and you know folks in and this is not to get a political? This is not to get into a situation but everybody has a reason why they feel a certain way. Jim I mean you've had some pretty in depth talks you know usually over a couple drinks but one way or the next. You know you've never said anything to me that that just like makes my jaw drop like you idiot. We don't agree on everything you know you. Clearly you've seen where I live. Have you seen how I live. You know I'm sure you're probably like Joe. It's a little bit weird and I don't probably I don't want to speak for you but I don't think I've ever said they knew that. Like just so completely off off the wall that just you cannot relate to it you know in any way or at least you know. Have some some respect that I'm not coming from some stupid place right and unless that was something. I don't remember which in case I probably have too many drinks. I mean would you say that's a fair judgment. I think it's completely fair. And because of that even though we have have not agreed on everything you know we we've still managed to like completely get along have mutual respect and love for one another so some extent of the next and also appreciate each other's opinions and other ways and obviously I tend to talk a lot but you also talk a lot and we've even found a way to make that work somehow or the other but but long story short is even if you disagree with me you have learned to at least understand. I probably have a reason why I'm coming from that. That position and in return I feel that same way about you right and if humans learn to have that opinion about each other that hey look this person even though you disagree with with them even though they say stupid things online doesn't necessarily mean that there are a stupid person and therefore they probably have some experiences have led for them to to end up where they are. But that's another that's that's another day. I mean it just Kinda ties on a little bit. What you're saying? I think Joanne answered well. I think it was a great answer. Is the main reason why I ask like again. It wasn't even necessarily area that it was my point of view. It's just 'cause he's bringing up the free market which I think is a great. You know The scripture of Crypto and Bitcoin in general But you know within its volatile state. It can be easily manipulated and I've seen with a lot of social media arguments and especially with what would it appears to be a lot of more. Young People's point of view is like free markets. More of a dirty word these days because they don't trust in it in general they don't believe that it's a thing that exists exists or like. He said they see it as rigged so I think he gave a great answer. I was just kind of popped in my head because I've seen it brought up a lot in arguments and I've seen people kind of poop who on that in general Because I guess they've lost a lot of faith in the system so I just said so. Yeah those are great call in a a lot of good information so yeah really appreciate it. And thanks for jumping on all right next we got. Darrell Darrell you. GotTa I'll give twenty second little buffer here for actually put you on. Yeah I can see it down there. So you're you're up next and then jamming you'll be right after But Hey folks thanks Joe. I see your comment down there man. Thanks for hopping on it. Was it was great to have you. I look forward to your contributions nations more in the future Rob even a great great contributor as far as comments go. I'd love to have you on to Asher. Always welcome as well I will. I will re post the The link shortly after we have these next one. All Right Darrell. You Ready Man. Let's go what's the peach everybody. Hey how's it going guys is happened to be on the show. Thanks for having me absolutely. What's up before we get into a lemme ask you got year rise skywalker tickets for Thursday night or what yeah? I don't don't have time for any of that stuff now. Doing pitch envy pitching the envy startups. Tomorrow we're back and forth between Silicone Valley. I don't have the time for TV or movies or video games or any of that. Fun Stuff man. We are all business right now. firing on all cylinders barrels in a unique situation. Where he's he is so you're actually at a big band as we speak? Yep So we're at a holiday party For one of the bigger companies out here Global Block builders. They did a conference over the summer. I believe a lot of the guys from cvt were there and so this is their holiday party. And there's a it doesn't and a half two dozen people here it's just starting to ramp up and I actually didn't know it was gonna be today when I said I'll be under your TV. Show six o'clock and I'm like okay. Tape I can handle that because you ever inaugural Henderson. Nevada was out gyms over there in Nevada as well hanging out nice man. I don't know exactly where Henderson is. But I can tell you this much. I'm a Mississippi and it's thirty one degrees and I'm freezing. I don't know what the temperature is over and when I woke up this morning so we're not too far off for me man Dan. Look we're we're around the same you know latitude line right like we're going across the country I mean I'm not used to this cold weather especially not at this time maybe January February Abi worry it gets down to like under freezing at times but I was in the woods today. The Woods Right. I wasn't I was like hanging out in the woods on purpose and I saw a snow flurry and and I was like. Oh my gosh. It's freaking cold anyways off Jay right here. What upside? Why don't you do a man I? I don't think he can't hear you. I got he says what are you doing. Man says keeping a real sounds like you're all keeping it real. Okay Okay so darryl tell us a little bit. What's going on in your life man? Yeah man so Quincy Years Club just got through an accelerated program Silicon Valley. We did eight weeks. It was intense we produced about eighty documents. While are out there. Her and then we went up and pitched panel last week. got some great feedback some good content But the pinnacle of the entire experience was we are on this week in startups switches. California's last Friday. He did three episodes that he shot from a Wilson sincerely Law Office from the salesforce office in downtown San Francisco And and anybody could show up. They picked the first six people that wet. We're the first ones there so we went up there. We're able to pitch him Flawless pitch great feedback and our goal is to hopefully get into his accelerator Because we WANNA level up our connections but as far as funding and things like that we only do traditional VC funding so we're not trying to like an icy Ohio or a seo or any of that stuff we're going the other route. Oh you're you're a mature company trying to raise money in a traditional format commissioner format in the United States. Goodness gracious like. I haven't heard this is what am I doing. What do I do with my hands? I confused now. Congratulations congratulations there. Are No you guys are kicking all right. So let me ask you this Daryl. You know obviously you guys have a lot going on in your. I appreciate it. Takes time out your holiday party having define a few drinks but you know what what about some advice to maybe a strong willed or a somebody. WHO's somebody who's really excited about? Maybe doing something that space and I think that that really embodies about kind of where you were early on in this and you made it work. What was what simple some advice? Real quick on what you would say. Hey this is how you should do or this is why you should try like what about failure I mean how many times do you failed. Like give us a quick rundown Yemen so you hit a ball in the head so what I would say to a young entrepreneur in the space. This is A. Don't stop don't give up take every single risk but don't cut corners. It's exceptionally important in this space to have ethics. It's exceptionally important. Horton in the space to make sure that if there is a regulation or a law or a governing body that has control over. Whatever you're trying to do you should probably follow them now? There are some states that have cooled ways the Ben Laws Nevada's one of them You know allow you to circumvent certain types of laws and regulations out here but if it's not okay. Hey by law don't do it if cuts corners don't do it But take that risk to go out there and be everything be at every event be he at all the meet. UPS Go to the parties. Go to the conferences. Even if you can't afford the tickets of the conferences go to the lobby of the conferences. That sort of stuff always sneak in not to cut corners on that part you can. And that's the thing like let's say I saw you conference. I don't have a badge. You're like hey man I'm GonNa go get lunch. Here's my badge next thing you know walking around with Joe Blackburn batch same thing it's converse with a badge pulled that myself. I've done that exact same thing. I don't want to be your friend unless you haven't done that. So we got into consensus last year. Great man but I mean that's kind of other part of like what you think is the preconceived notion of how this industry operates operates where you have to have to rancher ticket. You have to have twenty five K.. For a booth that's not how businesses are built us your network building network. Use Your network use your connections agents and get to the end goal because if you say you have ten thousand dollars to start a business. And you're spending twenty five hundred dollars on a batch watch. That's a horrible business expense. Get yourself a go daddy. Account get yourself a male chip account or not because they kicked us out. But you'll get yourself those type of proper proper business funneling systems and the rest will come. You know the network will come. The connections will come and even if you go to consensus and you don't have a ticket for consensus insist but you know we're all the parties are and we did that with a we had a ticket for SF blockchain week but you know we ended up getting invited to like forty parties. That were out there. You get a spreadsheet next thing you know you walking all of them so that's really my advice is it's easy if you take it one step at a time but it's also exceptionally difficult because you have to put everything into it and they'll call you out and I don't want to pretend like I know everything in Jim. I'll let you talk here shortly but I I've always said this and I know Ben Barlow co-founder fantasy. He he agrees with me and obviously my my position is very different than everybody else. Especially if you've got a business I don't necessarily have a business inside this. I have a networking opportunity. Indy on a digital level. I guess right but when I go places. The whole point of every conference is essentially networking in some capacity. Right I mean if you're a sponsor because you want to network and get your name out there and let people come talk to you and you know get some exposure if you wanna go there and you want to have a thorough parties because you want people to come and network at your event event you. It's all about networking and you don't necessarily have to be anywhere. Except at the places. People are even if that doesn't include the conference that have have make sense. You know I I. I haven't really talked yet but having great points they'll thank you know. I mean that's fine. But what about tips as far as you meant like both guys talking in a lot about networking I mean. That's GONNA come down as schmoozing then right because I mean I know my main man Joe Blackburn. He's like an extraordinary when it comes to schmoozing with people's though record when he says schmooze he always says it like this. I mean he's from Baston I. He's a northeasterner and grew up in Connecticut. So I'm feeling right here. I'm not some like sleazy Schmoozer. I know you know. But that's that's the way that I've always make you make it sound so I'm GonNa make sure you everybody else knows. It means I'm good at being genuine and having conversational or folk gem. Well I mean I guess just business in general because it is about selling allowing yourself. It's like the old like you know. Business deals done on the golf course back in the day and I mean even to this day actually analogy. That's not always always a natural talent for someone. So what's what's what's kind of tips on that competency. You go like. What's the fine line there yet? It's it's a lot confidence up. Forget Larry Larry jumped real quick a lot of confidence stuff but think about this. You might not have the skills to go out there and start a conversation with somebody random but if you truly truly built an amazing product and you're going to be able to talk about that and they say that a lot with founders. I go up in pitch. They get caught in the deer in the headlights hunted scenario. It's like you. Just oh your stuff. If you know your stuff you can go up there and talk about it anytime and I mean there was a point in time where. I didn't know everything that I know. Now and I had to learn and learn and learn it comes from conversations with guys like you and continuing to hone those skills. You know what you're doing. Then you should be able to articulate azoff absolute absolutely. I mean if you're technical co founder. Hire yourself that. CEO Sales that you need that Steve Jobs Wozniak. You need to find jobs. I'm sorry the sacred sometimes people are almost too knowledgeable to a detriment if they get bogged down some technicalities and you need that. Like like almost salesman type pizazz sometimes off though because salesman will cut corners and it gets back to that all ethical stuff but leadership talk in in front of people. Well Daryl. I think that's been tremendously and I really appreciate your insight there. I think you have a ground level. Grass roots approach. And at the same time you can see at high level and you know what's next and I wish you nothing about success as you already know that and I appreciate your influence even though you weren't in Vegas even though you're from that area or not from on there but the Reagan Henderson. Yeah Yeah exactly. See you in Vegas because you're off doing some other shit that's the best part about you. Know World Khan and Vegas Blockchain leak were happening as SF blockchain. I know I know in in accelerator for two days. We had to go to classes and then I'm like well wait a minute. I can meet the wave steam team so Chris handled everything out there. Brilliantly I mean and that's the other side that's what comes with forming. A team is if you're just one person and your business can't operate without without you you can't scale and that's you know that's important where you know. Coin Sierras shouldn't be. That's obviously the people that don't know. That's our brand shouldn't just be me. It should be anybody. That's art of our team. Should be able to articulate the details about a product or platform. And what. We're doing the same way we can. And so that's not a business. So well Daryl again thanks for coming on. We got on next. Go ahead and we'll break here until where can people find you in. Just just plug yourself earthquake. Yeah so coin sears. Where we Quincy Dot Clo- Daryl Coin Sears Dot Club I'm at Daryl D. on twitter And we're just trying to be that Silicon Valley. VC backed crypto platform that follows all the laws in the United States. And you know so does the right stuff. I don't know how to say without being all right man. Well Look we appreciate your daryl brother appreciate you coming on. That means a lot you got to crank it up. TM EX party up that party. Yeah man looks like it was. It was just about to get rolling up and I'm a little jealous. I'm not there but I am doing in my own party here. Jim and honor view. We got look. We have Jeremy on coming on next Jimmy. Here's your twenty thirty seconds and then we got the ashraful staint GonNa come on for a few minutes with us after after jamming so I look for everybody. You didn't realize this ash just today changed. Maybe just like this hour. Change her profile picture. So make sure you go look make sure you go see the roles and just change your profile picture comment on that. Give her some love. Make sure she knows that when she comes on. Just show what's up. Everybody knows what's going on all right. Jeremy You're twenty seconds is up. Let's go let's go Jerry Mitchell. What is my friend a longtime Joe? Has it been really. Hey Jim you got your Thursday tickets. The rise of skywalker. A what my guy six thirty show. Yeah there you go. Finally Gem finally finally. I miss that I know I jim. Why don't you go ahead and start this? I have great relationships. I can't wait to hear it. Let's go So Yeah Where are you on your watch? You re watching Star Wars. What order? I'm I'm a little behind. been a little busy and stuff but I super hiding. You haven't seen one of the movies yet. No I've seen all the million man to to get up to. I know exactly everything I'm I'm up to date but now I'll probably watch one tonight and maybe a couple tomorrow and then a get up to speed. Do you forgive me if his personal do you have kids. I have three kids now. Have you had one. Have you shown them star wars at my oldest L. dollars to have seen a couple of but when but they're not big movie people so they can't sit still for very long fair. What but what order the most important questions? Here's what order. Will you show them the movies in. ooh good good questions. That's a conflicting thing. I've had this debate with a bunch of friends before i. This is what happened. Joe Turns over me talking right now. It's not I WANNA be. I WANNA have this conversation. I feel I feel like if you start with one that might turn them off from the franchise to begin with but and no way Kidman Apprentice Jar. binks may like that. That's exactly isn't data's everybody says now. Judge brings is terrible. I re watched you agreed bad for you. But what if you are a seven year old but either way you still related relate to charge our banks. You should never show someone the PREQUELS I. That's that's the thing I'm I'm with you Jim I am. I saw four five six one two three seven eight nine. I think that might be the IT. It's actually the way you think about what you think about what you just said. I started with four five five six one two three seven eight nine. That's the way they came out so obviously. The math is not make. Add up but I will. I'll say this because that's the way we grew up with star wars right. I mean I remember being in what the seventh or eighth grade. Maybe the ninth grade. And then you know knowing that you you know episode one was coming out right and to experience obi-wan-kenobi to experience and Akhund as a kid to experience. You know that that We we eventually saw was and what's her name from From whatever she did a great job I can't remember Gordon not formally now report Monier and obviously obviously Stanford Graduate Rapper. Part of you know the. What's the name of that? Groups are I'm not a pop culture or Poultry Ellen. Thank you boys but you know. I watched that and I was like an eighth grader. I'm like I can relate to this and I was sucked into Star Wars and even though the graphics from four five and six suck they made a lot more sense to me for five and six because I saw one two and three. Well I might pull out an VCR and put in the actual tapes of we. You won't happen at the way it's meant to be. You will not do that but the reason why you can't watch the PREQUELS I is because it'll ruin the reveal of darth vader and Luke like that's the biggest reason sure. But how much does that actually matter. I mean Completely it's a great reveal a great reveal but there's more things to come in fact. I really liked US last series and a lot of people don't like rent and I I really like rent a lot by elegant character to me. She is the most interesting person of that series. Ray You said Red Grey Kylo Ren the Ray. Yeah Yeah Yeah no Kylo Ren is the best characterize decent character just like Eric. She is incredible. The one thing I didn't like was the bullshit exit of the last movie last year or two years ago. Whenever it was when Luke Skywalker just disappears and doesn't die spoiler? That's some bullshit too too bad if you ain't seen it. I'm glad I'm ruining that movie for you. 'cause movie horrible ending a thirty second delay spoiler eight seconds. But I'm my ending. I want people to hear that last year. That's great great. Move all right go ahead go ahead Jim. I'm sorry over again because now I'm more interested. Well no I think Jeremy's absolutely right and if you if you either Dig Out your old vhs or there is like there are people online that have remastered remastered and put together the original Trilogy versions without the Special Edition Effects. I re watched those recently. It's great I re watched the PREQUELS. They're awful I get like as kids. Yeah hold on hold on. We got Joe who agrees with the pre goals are star wars as a theorem is the bitcoin is not as ki trashing trashing then because the prequels bad really bad. That's what you're not. A theory is is whatever there you gotta you gotTa show them the originals than even point out like the little bloopers and stuff like okay. So let's run into a wall or something like that appeared hold on. Let's compare the graphics. All right episodes one two and three or four or five and six compared the graphics four or five and six still still. It's still like or insane. No too much how much it didn't it didn't look natural okay. So let's let's put aside our differences I think episodes one two and three are very relevant and they had to fill in the blanks. Some point right come on the fillon in the FRICKIN can blanks. Let's get real. I mean it's weird too. I mean lucas was a frigging genius. When did this but who starts a trilogy at four five and six Geniuses do right I agree with that. Yeah but I mean initially didn't have episode for you out of that later but yeah it is a great idea to do a prequels. Let's put it all you explain that to me like when when Star Wars and you'd initially came out just said Star Wars episode floor. He added late. Yeah he added episode for later on. I mean not like way later on but enough like later on where it didn't like an after the second movie I I don't know exactly. Maybe it was before the second movie Eh. But it just wasn't on initial release but also it's a fun idea to do prequels but the Prequel stunk. And then it also it he. He say he kind of invented. prequels between that and like What's it called Temple Doumanian Jones sample? Doom has actually also prequel now and all people realize that Lucas was involved. Those as well so you kind of vendor prequels but now people put up equals all the time. And they're awful so it's like it's he. It took a shit on everyone because now we always have to see a prequel about some character because they don't feel like doing a sequel for it and we're just watching stuff where we know where it ends. Its is terrible all right. We've had enough of this trash talk. Let's get on the star trek or something. Let's get onto something relevant. Something run on more. You'll have you guys seen star wars in unlike concert with the full orchestra and everything just playing the music with the movies in the background. I haven't met. I would love that. I've I've yeah awesome. Awesome awesome to say that's also admit that the man Delorean may be the very best TV style series I've ever watched and I cannot Now wait till next week. That's one thing. I don't have dizzy plus yet. I'm going to get on that. I'll catch up you. You can't even have with conversation I have. I'm behind I'm very. I'm sure at some point. We gotta wait in the lobby. So at some point we gotta get to some of your actual the thoughts. Did you have anything prepared. What's going on? Jeremy Not really just wanted to say first time. Longtime want this. You guys and Cindy Great. Show Cassandra Jim between some legends here. So Jeremy you're tuned for those who don't owe Jeremy is a moderator CDs. I also the The newest or not the brand newest because there's people in front of you at this point but also welcome to new bitcoin baby into the world not too long ago as I congratulated you privately obviously give some big shots. The the babies won't go into any more detail we want to put all your business out there but let me ask you Jeremy. Are you a optimist. LONG-TERM BITCOIN price always. Yeah always he's telling people don't panic just don't even look at it. Put it aside check back a couple times a year. What y'all y'all may not yet today but but I'm GonNa tell you Jeremy who you've always reminded me of and I mean this the most endearing and I love this guy so ray Romano? You've always reminded me of RABEA great. I'll take. I wish somebody would compare me to Ray Romano so you get their act together. Whatever but no you don't know this but not only? Is Jeremy a funny guy and he's got these little quirks and you know he says them like if you don't you don't realize he's being funny but he's funny you know and if you don't know that Ray has TV show if you're just hanging around where you're like who is this guy wants to play golf all the time and show out what I understand he talks about is why we're in a good way. Obviously you know and but but you you know when you get to the meat potatoes of Jerry Mitchell here you realize this is really funny. He's also what I found out later on in our relationship. Our friendship is that all. Well Oil Jeremy here has been a talk show host before he's a sports guy. Feel bad for you because you're New York fan in any capacity at this point I feel you I I mean I feel bad for you right. I mean it's been a long time. I mean you have come on Bro. I saw actually. He's a New Orleans boy but he went to Ole message. That is missing. Won't let you forget the heating Grope Mississippi but Of course a Roofer. He'll but they've kind of just ally you suck. Now you've got to roles get Outta here right and I wish they would at least trade him or Eli would be like. Hey I'm also John. Maybe I should go play for another team or something. You know that that passed last year. Could've went the Jacksonville. But I know I mean like I wish that would have some self respect at this point. I mean like Dude I've got to go. In Age out inequality matter it's not like he's untalented. He is set in his ways. He's kind of you know now too smart as his brother but you know he still capable and so he goes to a system. You know you do well in like a ballot. Check off on Serrano. Who wouldn't do well there there? We could all play a quarterback for the Patriots. But when Tom Brady it's like he lie. And all this now not kidding but I'm not going to listen to the system. QB Bullshit Narrative errative Paul Oh for gala got Patriots Fan on the phone. You Lie to you know vice you got him twice. Yeah no I'm not going to allow this other nonsense thank you. I two zero when it matters most against Tom Brady one giant loss thriving. I mean yeah they'll take the eighteen. It's still better. I mean I know. They didn't get the super bowl a I still don't recognize the stupid Miami Dolphins because they didn't have have to play as many games. So fuck yourself Miami each it but you know what they won the Super Bowl that year was even a superbowl time. That must've been cares. They'd netplay many games. Fuck yourself you dick. The whole wasn't to the last game. Yeah but was. How many games do they play? It was I think it. It's like to be real must be real. I don't care if you lose one game or if you lose all of your games if you end up with the Super Bowl championship it doesn't matter. You're just talking about the undefeated like I know what you're talking about and you're trying to take away. I mean I'M A. I'm a gator fan. I root for Florida teams by instinct. Ain't going to take anything away. Six rings whatever. Miami eat a dick six rating bro. You know what Jim you you can go and a male Genitalia Elia McAfee impression Miami. I bet you this much. I bet you this much Miami Miami. What a beat? Every single New England patriots team that has ever existed with that team. I they wouldn't have no matter. What under any circumstance patriots would lose? They may not even scored point why I will admit I don't know about that. It's not but I will admit this. The Randy Moss insertion does change my opinion that it could have been a point. I don't even care because you're just saying like I land stuff like I'm not. I'm literally telling you that they never lost a game that season Avi and they're clearly the best S. team to have ever played football. That is not even close okay. That's fine I mean when you lose a game didn't you lose them to like let them preserve anyways all right. This is getting personal. Apparently so because I think the Dan like Bitcoin is going to go to a dollar. What do you have to say about it all right? I'll shut up. Go ahead I'm I'm already done. I was talking to love the football talk by the way that was allergy. Going to a dollar. That's well said Jim wait a way to shut. Shut me up. And as a New England sports fan. We don't even recognize college. Sports like when people talk about college sports I wouldn't either of me exports either. They don't exist. I wonder why because it's like watching little league. I WANNA watch pros. I don't WanNa kids in school got on my face only because y'all L. Suck no because we don't care where all players from Texas he's saying what are we getting Texas about high school football. No we care about the pros. Well actually the half of the pros come from our area. But they don't they don't go to college in our area that is not true very true Jersey's got a strong football football culture. Yeah I have nothing against Jersey. I'm just telling you that that's not true. Oh you're in Texas and Florida and Southern California Georgia Cammisa sippy Tennessee. It's the south that runs the NFL sixty percent of all players. Come from below the Mason Dixon. Line and west of Arkansas or east of Arkansas. That's the truth. Sixty percent gave me. Google it isn't that by the way we're not a big population in the south. So we make up like one eighth of the entire United States even though we are our land mass is like a quarter of the United States. anyways we can talk facts later. Let's go ahead Jeremy. Any last words working people find you. What do you do? What would got ask waiting on us? I'll ask ask open just wanted to say thanks. Have me on I was going to tag onto Daryl and say yeah. Go go to many conferences. You can sneak in the things just network go to parties hanging out. That's what I do and Joe and I got on the guest list or something and Joe wasn't even I got you in I was like roster roster and all you got his opening up Jeremy I need to get in Bro. I just signed the newsletters. All the things in your list absolutely absolutely. Hey you you guys have a good night and always work like Jeremy. Thank you Jeremy. We'll see you soon. All right everybody else during the Mitchell moderators E. C.. But we have. We've saved the best for last. We're coming up on the end of the hour. Obviously we've gotta make sure that ash gets her say. I can't wait to hear this gym. And I have something repaired to ask Ashley when she hops on. We're GONNA talk a little bit about mister cotton. Who recently is that? They get his body Reexamined and ash just a you. Now you got twenty second head. Start here that we're about to bring you on Jim. Look I know you're mad at me now. I'm fine. I'm a huge look in fact if I'm fortunate Annette I might even have those one second one second second. I actually just bought some Tom. Brady Rookie Guards Nice. I ain't even mad bro. Oh I can tell you're mad. I can see it in your mouth. You're like I'm really. I'm not mad add. You're mad because I was telling the truth about calls Rupaul. Steve is GonNa first off just so you know you can say whatever are you want. You can not change my opinion on college football now. I will say this your analogy about same bitcoin to one dollar that shut me up and I was like Damn Okay I get it and obviously I think athletes today are better than they were back in the dolphins unfamiliar. So I would concede that argument to you if I I had to. I love when they trot them out every year like if a team goes like ten and own finally lose and they trot out these like seven-year-old losers be like again. We still got it down my face but the Miami Dolphins are the ones that stopped the Patriots from going undefeated. No it was. It was the It was the bills. I'm not that I'm starting bills. It was the giants. No I thought. Oh was it the giants rule with Eli. That was the game okay. So that whole year. y'All did not lose a game. Now that's what he brought up. That's what he said. That was eighteen. One okay okay. That was also I remember. y'All we all want fifty fifteen in one year and Miami was one of the teams stopped. You know that doesn't matter all right all right all right at matters is when it goes to the super still funny though okay come on meaning some slack. I well I mean it's it's fine but like drew deer in headlights mad about the Patriots. Now Bro I don't even try and get you. I'm not mad about those things but I live in Vegas. I I don't live in New England like when you live in New England you're surrounded by when lot's patriots just fine. I live like air. Nevada states. Everyone everyone hates the Patriots. I'm used to it it. That's not true if you're a gambler and most of Vegas is you root for for Patriots. Because they cover spreads but they're not now but that's not the same as being a fan of a team people still. There's a difference between betting on a team and rooting for him. And then just in general roll like Okay Hating Shit. Everyone hates the Patriots at this point. Fine look so continuously. Talk Shit about Alabama right. I mean I hate the University Alabama. I'm from Alabama. I Hate Nick Sabin. I respect him. I think he's great. I'm really impressed with the body of work. Go to Hell Nick. Sabin can't wait till you were no longer the head coach in any capacity of any team that I'm not rooting for but I know that he's great right. But I'm GonNa Talk Shit About Alabama. Go get bro Why. That's not what people people aren't like that the Patriots. I mean maybe all right all right way not even when they retire but I was GonNa say maybe view and Brady and ballot check are long gone from the game may be probably not people just literally. You can't deny their greatness anyways it the conversation at the end of the ash on before she stabs me. Well let me just say Pedro Human Growth Hormone Nicotine you again. When he was caught with human growth hormone? Blame it on his wife. Look Dude if you ain't cheating you ain't trying exactly I don't do. He was like forty on all right. I'm not mad at anybody WHO's trying to be better at their sport or their look. Could you imagine someone having a drug that allowed them gonna be better like being a developer. Oh no you're developer and you're being better at it because you took adderall. Good I hope you all the rules without hurting yourself. What's up asked Rolston? How's it going girl? Why are you bringing me in now? When you're arguing stay well you you do the best nice profile picture? Did you hear my shout earlier. I did I commented. I said W. T.F. Joe Fair enough. Actually I was looking at the private chats and make sure that everybody knew what time they were coming on. I apologized for that last few minutes. But you're gator fan like me and we can tell everybody else goes to hell right sometimes or you're actually actually. I'm not I just my my other family. Three or four guys for my high school. Graduating class US went to play for the U Down in Miami and so does have some ties to that area. But I don't know the area you graduated from the University of Florida. What are you talking about? Let's move on. I don't WanNa talk about Miami. I mean technically ties to grambling too but anyway I'll raise our go. Go grambling. I'm I'm I'm all for the for the entire sue grambling tigers. I could be wrong. You all right ash give us some bitcoin knowledge. We've been sitting sitting here talking about Star Wars and sports after a great conversation about crypto. Obviously the conversation has deteriorated to an awesome extent. And we'll get back on track. Let's tell me about dot cotton. Should this do's body should be. Should it be opened up and made sure that he actually died exactly. That's what I'm wondering is like this dude actually is alive somewhere. Wouldn't you say so. He died from Lake. CROHN's disease allegedly like dehydration from from diarrhea. Exactly exactly right. I mean like this is not crows disease is rarely fatal from what they say on Google. If you have like but if you have Crohn's disease are you really going to like. What was it like Thailand and like going to eat like local food to like? Go Kill Yourself. I mean not a twenty five million dollars in your Canadian Bank count. I don't know but did you see like I think. Ernst and Young is the auditors on the court appointed auditors for the situation. Shen familiar with them. But I know Gemma's and they audited like things change. They audited all the shit in the cold wallets that are supposedly like they don't have the keys to their Mt. They're all empty so it doesn't even matter if he is alive. There's nothing to get back. So isn't that point to the fact that he's probably alive. Well that's why I said what body but I mean did they really really say there is no body or is it. We just need to prove that that's why they WANNA zoom they're gonNA exhume him and probably do DNA tasks farming's dad twenty four million dollars. You can just tell somebody. Here's a million dollars to say that I died isn't twenty four million's kind and not a lot not like faked my own death amount. You're an India. Yeah yeah but also going back to what you're saying about like if like aren't wealthy people kind of think they're invincible like saying that. How stupid could he beat up? CROHN's disease and like go to India. Didn't jobs like go to holistic medicine for his cancelled a fruitarian for like the last years of his life or something. Yeah I don't. They do like stupid things like that. Sometimes I don't know if they think they're invincible or it's a weird ego thing I don't think our are. We GonNa Rich Devil's advocate. You know like a potential for for some of these questions here. Actually I don't know I think I think the guy's not dead. So what in what he had he he was he too. This crypto exchanges Canadian exchange doesn't see you are the largest Canadian crypto exchange. He died and he took it is the name of it. You're wondering and when he when he passed away he was the only person which is I cannot believe anybody early on that team. Allow this to happen but I guess he was just like some narcissistic dictator asshole. Who maybe this is is goal along is that he's probably planning planning this for some time if he's still alive he didn't think of the idea yesterday right this something he'd been probably been planning for some time goes India he dies because he has disease and I guess? Sei some bad Indians two hundred million and involved okay. It's not just twenty five Mil. That's new to Amihai less than twenty five Mil. That's visible in the ball drains in the supposed accounts. That's why we keep asking him. Make sure the facts still like a hundred injured in seventy MIL that I dunno is missing and the auditors. Have a problem with that. Because and that's what's I really pushing. The call explanation is the the fact that not only do we not have access to the funds but from what we can see the funds. Aren't there and the users of the exchange money basically like the Base Fox because he faked his death and there's evidence that he was trading on margin trading shit coins on margin. Always Way to win that sarcasm. Please don't unless you're controlling the exchange. Yeah no he wasn't cheating on his own exchange people's yeah okay okay. Yeah Yeah. He was doing all of that evidence that he lost a lot of money on other changes So it's basically a big situation where he lost everybody's money and then goes oops I died. I mean the guy looks really healthy if you look at his picture actually. I'm going to share this right here because like like I really want people to see this like this dudes alive. He's probably watching this right now. You just never know right. And I'm reading here that yeah. He died in December. Yeah but they they didn't really announce it until a month later or more bombings and then not only that but the man was not married worried until right before he died and then all of a sudden he was married and all of a sudden his wife is like in charge of the change in charge. Target whatever wow all right so I'm pulling up old Gerald cotton right now. Meeting sharp looking guy could be worse. I mean this dude look smart enough enough to scam everybody. I'M NOT GONNA lie like the Guy Looks like you know me you or were you know. And obviously a nine a non binary situation but I mean he could be anybody. Yeah Yeah 'cause I didn't I didn't see some. I was just skim through this earlier so I didn't see that. Yeah basically because it was a cold wall system. We're only he could access it. And then his new is widow there says his laptop is encrypted and she doesn't know the Password Recovery Riki despite repeated and diligent searches. I've not been able to find them written down anywhere I've got. I've got to check something real quick so I'm just going to be asking for a second. Okay let's see many. Where unsupervised Parni or knee people are starting to think it was not just an unlucky incident but sinister scheme Yeah they assets were frozen early twentieth eighteen after they found irregularities in the company's payment processes so yeah like probably he saw that things things were kind of about shit was about to go down so he just did the ultimate search. Kill switch basically. Giovanni on your offer. Everyone's everyone's money and just I get away scot-free almost yeah you know. I think there's a lot of there's a lot of of ex patriots living throughout Asia and there's enough of them that are not necessarily on the up and up that people living there people going to these areas. Then dying is very suspicious. You know it's a place to reinvent yourself or it can be and I think that's truly what happened you know and I think that they're gonNA crack that coffin and he's he's not really going to be dead and even if they say he's really really in there I'm not going to believe them saw Earns just a real AH. There's too many things that are like. Oh that's that's suspicious that suspicious that's suspicious and like how many things have to be suspicious is to be like. Yeah that's not. That's not what happened. So is this kind of like. Isn't this almost. I mean I get this more of an isolated related incident but isn't this kind of one of the things people talk about where they want to stay. Away from Crypto is like risks of things like this someone just kind of being. I guess that's it's just investing in general rights while I mean there have been people that have scammed Investment people who have scanned all the time in traditional currencies as well What was that guy's name? I'm back by the way what's up. Joe Blurb in sync. Do you remember his name. Justin timberlake how now he likes scammed like a crap ton of people Louis Perlman is at the guy. Yeah that you what what the Hell Go. I'm okay fair. Sh sorry that my references are really weird I lived in Orlando at the time. Hi So my like trump John. Yeah the that guy. He's still like a ton of money. Oh and nobody was like. Oh my God. Let's not use dollar bills anymore to. That's right no I think it's a great point. I mean like how many scares have happened before crypto. All the stamps happened before crypto. And it's a custodial problem. We're seeing essentially exchanges. I don't know if you're familiar with Jason La. He's a cypher. Funk interview Jameson Lobb. I'm talking to Jim. You exit the conversation during her. Jim Edited the Davis Interview. Okay I'm sorry. I was excited. I interviewed one of the people that you know. So that's cool. He probably has no clue. I am But but anyway he. He had a good point on twitter the other day and he was talking about the the drastic uptick in exchange hacks and centralized exchange a change hacks you know it was like one and then it was like two and then it was like four and then it was like sixteen and now it was something like thirty five in two thousand nineteen and that each one that happens you know. The conversation continued. He didn't say that's I don't know who does but somebody else in the conversation said that. Ah The more that it happens. More that people see this happening. They more they see this as an option and it becomes sort of a history repeats itself so I think you know we're really going to see more X.'s. And we have to look at taxes and see if they are really axes especially all right so let me give everybody a quick back story on. astral Ashra Elson obviously is this is genius and she potentially is an artificial intelligence a mixed mixed with some sort of augmented reality on top of a quantum computing outfit. All right so you say what you want ascot. Pretend that's what that's what somebody who would who is in a AAAR quantum whatever would say by the way because they've already realized how to fake humans out and if anybody also noticed a named the The last episode of Donald Trump. Even though I had nothing. Donald trump just to get more clicks as worked already up almost fifty percent on all clicks and all views on on that one episode just Donald Trump. And I'M GONNA I'M GONNA continue to us by the way but the use the donald trump example like you know how to incite people to not believe that you're an actual but you know that you're in. I mean it is video with me like what two days ago. Three days ago says the person on on video. Yeah well mass. Where we've been over an hour and fifteen minutes but I do want to say this ash? Everybody who's listening. Listening Azure Allston has been a humongous influence on my personal crypto and personal growth. She's helped me see and understand the space at a very different level. When I came came in I was very much looking for that next when ash help? Be that grounding factor to realize. Hey this is bigger than that. Shut the hell up Joe. You're wrong and I was like. Oh yes ma'am you're right. I I lost and you won and I appreciate all your influence ash now Obviously you come on. You could talk about anything every everything and at any point you don't need to rehearse anything but Let's let's get some final points ash as we wind this down because this also turns does turn into a podcast and we have to make sure we fit into the apple. Well apple restrictions that we currently are under and we will eventually break out of that. We can do for our podcast. But I don't think anybody wants to listen to four hours anyways so I want to touch on what drew asked. I think it was drew Adam it was. Do you see a viable use case for private blockchain's or distributed ledger technology or some enterprise level innovative use of this tech so the biggest use of this tack on the corporate side. You know I talked about this in a post the other day corporate projects I I community projects. The thing about blockchain is that the data structures behind blockchain have existed since the nineteen eighteen fifties companies have used them companies have used them to track between various locations and all sorts of different stuff. And then nine hundred seventy nine the Time Stamp Protocol in one thousand nine hundred ninety one by Hubbert store Neta. You know all the different stuff raff built up to where she was able to take the the various things that went into bitcoin. Twenty two different references and create bitcoin and all that stuff that went into it. Yes it was already in use but they were already a use in corporate settings and the only thing different between those days in between Bitcoin and other distributed consensus models is that we have decentralisation. And when you say oh it's going to be a private blockchain so a blockchain doc chain minus public centralization. Is those same data structures over again. It's nothing new. Well you just went over my head and that is beautiful. He said I'm sorry. No don't be like I mean I'm being semi over my head. I mean I understood. You said the words but I don't have a response to it because it would just sound ridiculously stupid jokes chill Geez all right all right all right Haha thank you thank. You mean Azure actually bet we played fortnight hearing about what thirty forty five minutes or so ashes correct. So we're GONNA Brian this down. As I said we had fallen underneath the Apple restrictions that we have and As as always it is a pleasure is a beautiful wonderful opportunity for the world to get to learn from you. I think everything is better than go. Ahead Toubro Hugh broke for Bitcoin. Second addition is almost done. It is Kinda done. I'm just rereading it until I'm happy God that two years from now okay. You know what No. It's almost a broker. bitcoin episode one or Chapter One. Or whatever you you want to call it first off. They need to read that so too broke for Bitcoin. Folks if you are listening to this in the first edition off the market of course you did okay like includes everything from the first and is twice as long because it has more stuff than and I make sure to remind me. I'll make make sure that I a pin that post to the top Assisi so that everybody will be able to see it and share it with friends well anyway to bitcoin second editions coming so when gives us a date by what day January first. The twenty-first of this soon yeah. I told you it's coming soon. Jammed you see how he is to me. Yep Yep all right ash no congratulations for the record everybody. That is the most recommended book I can ever recommend. On Planet Earth it is the essential to know and I I stand by that and ash. Rolston you've been as I've already noted a huge influence on me. I cannot wait to put my eyes and ears on it and watch this and read it and and see what you said next because any any upgrade by the a our quantum herself has to be perfect. Thanks Joe I love Love Your profile picture actually just Sheridan Dec- just to Piss you off. I saw that I was soon to all right. Thanks ash. We're going to close US off. But I thank. Thank you for your For Your participation tonight and I appreciate you coming on. Yeah thanks for having me on all right. Listen thanks Jimbo it again. You guys get the light sabers and four-night yes and they are incredible. Dude they are. Do you WANNA play now. I never played it. Do just play with me tonight. Maybe doubt it no not maybe. Let's just try it. It's only like seven twenty where you're at. Let's Kit on one game. Maybe I'll get my superstars with us will win a game. You'll think it's easy and then you can always say that you one lightsaber and blaster game. I didn't realize okay. So I'm on the star. Trek is your star. Wars got also both of them by the way. But you never told me that you were like a star wars nerd Yeah I mean I guess I I am. I'm not a die hard you know. I got my tickets Thursday night. All right Ash. I actually wants to play so we'll do stupid. BITCOIN radio team all right. So can I ask you a question me yes. What are your expectations of this? The end end of this part of the trilogy. This third Redick or five decades later. It's complicated tell you know it's going to suck you know you're gonNA hate it by the way I'm pre- I feel like I'm probably not gonNA love it but we'll see I do any movie I go into. I want to be great. Obviously even if I'm yeah but I mean I'm excited enough that I got preorder my tickets. I'm ready to go Thursday night so but you already know the end of it is going to cause a ton of controversies. Never going to live up to the hype and it's impossible because you know why the first three the storyline was so incomplete in complete but the movies or so perfect. Yeah there's no answer to this like it's a losing battle. It's a moneymaker at this point. Yeah I bowl. I agree but just like being like endgame for example Kazakh. Big Marvel Fan. I thought endgame was amazing. Completely different and not on the same level. That's not a story line that has to that people are like pissed off about because they enjoy the action and the love of you know that that that Authentic Superhero Star Wars different. It's like it's like star. Wars is like the is the comic book for people who take life really seriously but want something that matters because it's like a jet. I is a serious and committed person. The Djeddai the concept of good and evil the force everything. It seems to want to matter more but when you look at the whole scope of things every movie has never been as good as the first three correct on storyline period. The reason I brought up marvelous because I feel like marvel movie are this what Star Wars was then but now and star wars away star. Yeah Way Marvel is the of marvel movies movies. Now are like the game. Changer blockbusters that Star Wars was when it came out in the late seventies early eighties and new star. Wars can't be that because it's you just can't all right. I'm GonNa have to take your word for that. Because you're the pop culture icon of that. I know among the most famous person I know Jim Right. I mean you're a famous dude like everybody in pop culture knows Jim Scam Alley and I have to. I have to. I have to give up the stage to your expertise and say I will take your interpretation of what today's Music and movies and everything else actually ends up meaning so This is no different. I will take your word for it but let's go back to the main point here is there's been eight movies right. I mean well actually nine include Solo and there's another one zero rogue one rogue one. Yeah now you got I mean. Of course you have clone wars which I think I I hear that everybody says Clone Wars actually tells a story more But rogue one so upset are but of the actual storyline from one eight. You know we're about to see nine on Thursday. How many of these have been a disappointment on the big on the big level in your opinion most of them outside of the three that each one has disappointed? You know no no no actually I mean. Four Awakens last Jedi or decent prequels or disappointment and in any of the originals originals aside because original set the tone okay so one two and three fourths awakens right. You haven't been moving forward Lord you know what would you say. Weren't that bad. I mean when antic and gets all his limbs chopped off by Obi one well the prequels like like I said I re watched the prequels get into this movie. So jar being sucks I agree. There are moments that are fine but as a whole those are not good movies. They're they're not good movies unless your kid and you can appreciate your your cake. Is the movies are now for kids. Yeah they have judge our banks but the main storyline is about you know trade embargoes and government republics. Okay Fair you mean so. It's like I hate the argument. Because yeah they have they have robots what's like farting and stepping in poop and stuff bro. I was an eighth grader. Falling in love with mountain dew drinks that had every character on star wars. I remember that of course star. Wars Smerch indices broke. I still have all. We had the red alert and the original mountain dew. Drinks have both on there. No it's legit. I mean I like we were. My Brother has spent the last eleven days watching over and over again. Every you can watch the whole all series in one day still and he has done that for like eleven days in a row. Well Yeah I mean. They're doing movie. Theaters are doing screenings like that. I think like you go in on Wednesday and you watch all the movies in a row to get here. I think that's a big mistake though. Agreed you why but do you see the new movie. You're just exhausted exhausted like you know the time you see that new movie. You're disappointed Ya gas. But it's like didn't at theater for twenty four hours especially according to Jim you watch the first thing you're like okay. This is a movie and then you watch the next three in order. Of course we're watching from one through nine right so the first three Oh jar banks Artan in whatever and you got Nellie Portman and and again whatever and then you got a new hope and then you have empire strikes back and then you have. What's last one return? Turn the jet I jet I thank you and then you're like Holy Shit that's the best story ever and then you have awakens. Yeah for the last Jedi in number eight with fricking Luke skywalker disappearing and not dying. which is bullshit man? It's a cup out though Elisa. Bullshit Obi Wan did the same thing in episode four new. Hope hold on. But he didn't save the entire frigging series without that. The series Over 'cause all everybody's dead we'll see we'll see how they wrap it up hold on well no I disagree cop out like yeah. I wasn't a cop out. I feel like force awakens setup that Luke exile themselves like force awakens. Decide to make luke a mystery where the whole movie vis-a-vis trying to find him so luke didn't come out even when in force awakens. They used star killer base whatever it was called to destroy like seven planets. He's still building. Come out of hiding so in episode. Eighty can't just be a bad ass because then where was he when they just like is always a little scared bitch I guess yes but then so what he does he do. He sparks new revolution. He sparks the next generation inspires. Oh Okay Fair enough but if you go and watch a new hope and you see the the youthful ignorance that everybody has had at one point. We're all related. We can all relate to that but let me answer that then okay or to that person person with youthful ignorance and that spark in their eye. Yep let's check in with them forty years later they don't have that anymore. Do they. And neither did luke hold on. That's not what I was going to say but I agree with that sentiment. Intimate right you've been exhausted of trying to do the right thing and you're just like you know I'm out I tried. I'm not going to be a bad guy I'm just not gonna I'm just. I'm just going to get killed in this out worth it. I want to have a family one day. I don't know what Luke was thinking but I will say this though. It seems like if you're going to take on that responsibility and as a seventeen year all the new hope kid. You can't do that by the time that you know that you finish the original trilogy. Yeah you're exhausted of star or star wars but the storyline align should make luke the leader of the next rebellion right. What is these movies? Told you between Four or five and six then going back to one two you in three all the powerful jet I were killed not ones that did live. They went and hid. IOTA is arguably more powerful than the most powerful several jet I ever what did he do. He ran and hid next style. Yoda Obi Wan went and hid to. I mean yeah I guess you can argue that. Maybe Luke should be different buddies actually just like the people that raise them but he did not influence the next generation properly he showed up when it was convenient and then he almost died and then he like a reappeared. This is my problem with Star Wars Card. Yeah he just like disappeared when it was. It's convenient no no. I mean I don't mean disappeared by not being part of a series. I mean like they slice him with a frigging. You know what can remember how to kill them in that episode and that last movie at the very end but then he like he's like Oh that wasn't me I reappear. Look at me. I'm now killing folks looks again at the end of the movie. Chew well he just zoom lashes or spouse to to spark a revolution so what is he doing. Today we'll find out on Thursdays. Inspiring the next generation will see all right so enough with the Star Wars Talk. It's relevant. It's amazing it's fine if you can't find two people that aren't star wars fans. I directed this a bit but I mean hey every episode so this is relevant if you if you could fit in forty five minutes of Star Trek talk it does not even come in that half if not one third of what. I've the spoke about Star Trek which is relevant to crypto currency enthusiasts. If you don't believe in Star Trek or Star Wars I can't respect you go away. I'm just stay stay stay hotline. Don't sell your bitcoin. I'm just saying all right okay. Look bitcoin radio. It's been fun it's been real. It's been the first call in episode. We had four four five six guests. I can't remember had a few drinks yen. The calls are great. Lot of people bringing in some good information. I think it's something we should be doing more often hyphen. I love hearing from the people whether it's someone with project or just someone who's out there like me just another Lehman out there just talking about their experience. It's in the market love to hear it love to see it Joe Carlo. Sorry my man make it so as if John Luc Picard said himself until next time on BITCOIN radio. We'll see you soon. This is where bitcoin lives. I know what I'm doing for the diverse I know a gym zoom for the crypt diverse. I know what we are all doing for the reverse. But what are you doing individually. Make it so folks make it so until next time. bitcoin lives bitcoin. Radio Ready W._B._Z..

Bitcoin Joe Joe Jim Jim Jim US twitter Joe Blackburn Federal Reserve apple Jim Jeremy Jim What Woods Ray You Jim Scam Hallway Dan rea
eps.049 - LIVE - IS BITCOIN DEAD!?

Bitcoin Radio

52:39 min | 11 months ago

eps.049 - LIVE - IS BITCOIN DEAD!?

"What's up cream Radio Ismat Joe Blackburn? Joined with me is are the managers. Can't Paulie what's going on Jim. Oh my goodness what a week. The game boys pack it up. Qurna go home bitcoins done see Aleida a `love' `love' Jim. Great great great use of that awesome system. You've got back over there well what's up. WBZ Say thanks Jim for that. Awesome intro in that that welcome. Obviously obviously bitcoins. Could've been a little bit steadier. Seventy one hundred seventy one fifty. I feel like if we stay at this price for pretty bullish actually moving up at some point. Of course it's opinion. I'm always bullish Polish. Shut up jam. I don't WanNa hear all that Jim shaking his head for those less. Now I've been reading. I've been reading the facebook posts. I've been reading a a game over dude back it up. bitcoins done bitcoins bitcoins. Dead and buried my dude. I did hear some things but we'll get into that here shortly as people may notice here for the Thanksgiving. I'm at my folks house. I'm borrowing my dad's office. I'm sitting here trying to make Internet connection work down here in the state of Alabama Obama and Jim. I know you're back home in your typical Jimmy Fallon Studio so As this holiday we can get caught up you know and we get there on Thursday and happy could drive the be respectful. Losing me. Now I get you back your back. Yeah be respectful and have a safe holiday. I mean this is a holiday for the the. US folks we're talking worldwide. But I mean in the stop and take a second to just think about what. They're thankful for the United States and for me. That's how foolish I am on Bitcoin and Jim's got all these really crazy ideas because old new Jim. Oh there's been scouring Internet finding everything he can about. bitcoin is going down to two thousand hours. So tell me what you've learned. Yeah Oh yeah you know what I did see. Some people. Saint Two thousand a lot of people were saying thirty five hundred and then it'll bounce awesome. Then it'll die like it's GonNa Bounce just die again But yeah you know what two thousand and I feel like that could be too because the price is going down pack it up. BITCOINS joins over game over man. It was fun while lasted. Or you know Y- Gem I the thing is I understand and I appreciate the way. I don't think Jim actually feels feels that way. People were gonNA pretend like he does tonight. I don't think that's actually the case. But I love his ability to be the devil's advocate here. And we're GONNA have a slight discussion about this. You know your your thanksgiving. You seem bitcoin go down. Guess what twenty seventeen. We had an awesome Thanksgiving everybody but that twenty seventeen. The price was just about where it is today. Jim and that's what's funny. Is what a difference that feeling is because we were coming from the bottom of what we consider a low but it was really a high at that point which was at twelve fourteen. Fifteen twenty five hundred three thousand five thousand or runs next thing. You know November twenty seventeen Jim. Guess what. We're at six thousand bucks. Well guess what two years later. We're at six seven thousand bucks. Guess what last year I I think what we were around six or seven thousand bucks. You know I mean it's it's been pretty consistent how this the November's have been around this price regardless list of which sit at what sediment you feel. It's been steady at this price. Isn't that interesting. Yeah Yeah I mean I have heard the other side of it is people say it's just the holiday holiday sale. It's just bitcoin. Though the Black Friday came early for bitcoin still just slashing prices. So you can get in on it now. Is there like you mentioned you know Thanksgiving you know we're we're. We're on the cusp here. Now for the people that do go home for Thanksgiving and you you try to talk to your family about crypto. Now if they get a little wind of this you have to try to explain yourself now with this. I guess the Fund is the right word shirt regularly yet. No I think it's a great question especially because you know. We have bitcoin for Christmas right. So mouse felt myself. Jim Josh Donaldson View. Others Ashley Meredith. Obviously in all the great work with mouse vogue is the developers. You know we really All pitched in our thoughts ideas we put together all these things to be able to have this conversation with folks and although it says Bitcoin for Christmas I mean it's irrelevant with the holiday is or whether it's a holiday or not. It's just a place to go and be able to have resources that allow you to not only see. Hey this is a way to to be able to Explain certain information but the guide allow others to figure it out for themselves. which I think's really special? It's important that we recognize that. This is hard to understand. It's a concept that people we are ready probably have a generic idea about and if they had thought really highly of it already began. So everybody you're talking to hasn't bought end right folks so that that population that people that have not bought in they they need to be spoken to and you don't have to fight with them to get your point across right if you start arguing you're going to be like oh big ones right and there'd be like bitcoins wrong just because people just argue they all have this idea that we're all on the Internet still and at and a little bit of money instead of flavor you're GonNa get a recipe for disaster so handling yourself properly really important Jim to to your point here. I think it's very important time for people to get caught up refresh on the basics of bitcoin. Why does it matter? How does it work? What is the expectations? And what was Sushi's original intentions. What we're his? What was the reasons why he was doing this? And if you think back people if you go back to two thousand eight in there in the financial crisis does it surprise you. That two thousand nine you know the to- she's worked began and then by two thousand ten January two thousand ten. You know we were really up and going going in two thousand nine. We're up going January. And then she did. We made our our first one year anniversary of a a working product. That's why we are here today right so think about that not. Bitcoin was literally born from that moment in time that financial crisis whoever they are that person he or she or non binary as as Actually likes to remind me It it's irrelevant. Who Said Oh she is I just know this? They saw that there was a problem. They fix it they say. Here's a solution rather than complained rather than vote for this person that person who has done nothing they just fixed it and we're used but yeah but that's kind of my thing though. Is that the monkey wrench into the idea of Bitcoin for Christmas. Because does it make it a tougher sell right now because even people in the community acts acts like it's dead and I understand that just because the highs and lows of you know watching the charts and all that but it's almost harder to talk about now when you have it's like you have more of a barrier to go up against the try to explain someone not in the space because if you tell them about bitcoin and then they google it and they see we all these articles that are about how bitcoin going down the you know how do you do. You have tips to overcome that or just kind of focused more on the other positives positives behind something like rather than the pricing yet. Though I mean obviously as we all know don't want to get shot Josh Danielson good to see you man. Tim Pace AC- the Andrews on there. I was just arguing. We I think we were kind of arguing about Tesla but we really we weren't. We're kind of saying the same thing so good to see you as always ap but look the barriers the expectations of a conversation. How to to to get in how to how the new words it comes down to this gym Jim and this is my honest opinion? Is that you can't force this concept on people now for Bitcoin for Christmas. If we're smart what we're doing is buying five or ten dollars for our friends and family and giving that away. Bitcoin for Christmas is my in my opinion. It stands for me giving you Jim or getting my brothers or somebody. Bitcoin and there is no better way of getting through somebody then saying here. Here's some bitcoin for free. Even if it's just five bucks right yes everybody not not not. Everybody's able to incapable of doing that. I get it. I'm not in your to pass judgment or say say one thing or the next I can at least portray this image though in that as a magic. Everybody in crypto giving a little bit of Bitcoin and how how many people are going to have them start paying attention to what bitcoins doing and if they start seeing maybe it's going up maybe it's going down. Maybe they're starting to to put into perspective. How this thing works? Maybe they're trying to send it to their new bitcoin wallet because they wanted to add some more. Maybe they're now able to explain to somebody. Hey I got bitcoin and it becomes popular. Hey look someone gave it. I've got it actually. I think it's up a little bit. Like five like fifty cents. They only give me two dollars. But you know that's that's the beauty of this whole thing is that it's it's it's always been you know peer to peer even marketing right. There's nobody marketing Bitcoin Actually I take that back If you haven't heard or seen it yet folks you're going to see a very soon. And that is the white furred Verte. Football Club from the Premier League is Bitcoin on their sleeve. You know and I mean. Think about that. If you're in the premier league every time someone from that team scores and they raised their hand and excitement. You're going to see big went on that shoulder. A Little Birdie told me you can get more information about that on Friday show by the way. Oh Nice be on the look out. So yes and of course. I just interviewed them as Jim. The the One of the producers and editors the entire show. WHO's listening to every single word probably more than me You know he's he so kindly let us know that. That's the Friday show so be excited about that folks. 'cause it's GONNA be exciting. Hey Do you think that's a decent understand like that's the way I portray it to answer your question like what do you think Jim. Is that good enough in your opinion. Yeah I think so and I guess it's just the tough thing like putting it in those terms though is if you give like I'm just thinking more from the I guess quote normally perspective affective because I i. I'm not quite enormous. I'm still a little new to the space but I'm not enormous me. I'm thinking some that only knows of bitcoin because they see the headlines and they vaguely no. It's a thing the tough sell. I feel like especially right now with with the price. The price is always going to be volatile. But like with more on a downtrend. Downtrend is if you give someone for Christmas like Hey. Here's fifty bucks in Bitcoin. And then they look at it the next day and it's like thirty Bucks Bitcoin to them they're like This is weird weird and does that like immediately turn them off or you just have to really just keep pitching the other side of it and rather than the pricing well. Well there's two sides of this number one. You should know their address if you sit the Bitcoin so you can keep adding to it. Like a dog barks right like I mean. They'll never see a fall right like if he really needed to address that but yes to your point. It's a very serious one and I agree like if they just see constantly falling. which is what happened to a lot of people including myself? I gave it to my father in law take. My brother-in-law gave it to you. My friends family and they saw it go down and they mentioned that to me several times. And it's not unwarranted. Right it you know I put Michael Sausage a post op or is comment. I think it's really relevant. He said would be safe to say that. People's general perception is that it's not a future of currency but rather a specula- speculative asset and I say that's absolutely what it is right now. I mean that's the perception isn't perception's reality if you're looking to grow something and so whether you're a celebrity TV host and you're trying to get the next big GIG or your musician and everybody thinks you've music sucks when I was gonNA play or no one's GonNa hire you know who's GonNa Bring you about. No one's GonNa buy or use you. If they think you're speculative assets keeps going down so great point Mike on whether she wrote that But you know I look at this like I have never had a problem at least explaining the basics and what bitcoin able to do gyp right and we've conversation numerous accounts like you came in here a little bit. I don't WanNA say risk is you're pretty level headed dude but you know you came into a new space as someone who I you know we. We talked about you coming on the show because I know how entertaining engaging in what's we unleash you to this crowds this group. You're going to be a a national treasure. Is your to bitcoin space right. You're just really exciting. Jimmy Fallon style. I appreciate so much you know. Now you hyper me up over here thank you. I also compared you Jimmy Fallon which I hate so you breed 'em all yourself. He's literally right there fair enough. We talked about this every time about the finish statement up. It's this it's that. Is bitcoin spectacle of it is. It's absolutely speculative speculative even if you don't want it to be speculative too bad. Had your speculating. That is going to go up. At some point you know and you know so because it is what it is and because it's it's that in that area once it becomes was non speculative it becomes a very stable asset. And you know let's be real people the fact that is volatile even when it's negatively volatile and when it's going down it's still leaves these hope that it's GonNa be volatile back up right. So that's we gotta take the good with bad because it can go down also allows it to go up. Yeah yeah like Tim Pace Ace in the chat whether they look at it and at seventy five. That's a great point because that gets people even more excited and I'm glad you brought up giving it to your family members in the path and I mean I'm sure you're known amongst your family as the Crypto Guy. Because you are the Crypto Guy Your your your Maine Man Joe Blackburn. The cryptovest belongs all of us but especially especially blogs Joe Blackburn. But do you have those people you know people. There are a lot of people that talk about how they dread the political discussion or something coming when I get home but When they go home for the holidays do you have someone in your family? That's ready to like pounce on you every Thanksgiving or Christmas to be like ha ha. What's up with your bitcoin? Coin now bud or someone who has been like on you about it and how. It's like not a thing and all that shit see it's really interesting thing like I'm I am the person who does that to everybody else right. And I'm so versed in arguments in so composed in being able to articulate. I thought that nobody messes with me right. If they're going to talk about it they're going to do it behind my back which is fine. Because I'll find him anyways and I'll hear about it but I don't I really don't I don't have the fighters now. I do have friends that I'll see during like Thanksgiving break that they're like. Oh bitcoin didn't they fall from my twenty thousand and they just make jokes. But it's I don't really deal with that the hateful a lot of others do have to and so. I'm more concerned about that political discussion before. I am a bitcoin discussion but I also have a lot of people who support me and they also have seen what bitcoin because I wasn't talking about them about Bitcoin with them at twenty thousand. I was talking to bitcoin talking to them about bitcoin. When it was five six seven hundred right so get a little bit of credibility with between there between those those this price about mark's? Yeah Yeah and I guess the tie it all in it comes down until like you know. Never mind just the normies because again. I'm I'm basing it from a newer perspective and I see a lot. The people in the community get pretty down because the pricing which I understand you know people. It's an investment people have money and it's it's like a lot to ride on sometimes but it he feels like people get super negative or just Kinda shut down a bit and then I feel like so what are what are your tips to keep the fire alive so to speak in some of these not as exciting times so you know we have to change changed the discussion and Jim. That was a really good point. You just made to like the conversation has to be able to continue right. There has to be that moment where you as an individual you'll figure out these are. These are the points that really matter about bitcoin. And that's an ideological and political comment con. It's a political conversation and and I mean it's not a political in a way that Americans politics. It's just a complete change in the way that you want to be governed and how you're explaining that to somebody else. Why that's that's important to you so mixing that you know without being confrontational and shutting somebody off? It's very very delicate. And the moment you start talking about if you're talking about price you kinda remove all the politics right. If you're talking about ideology it come. It becomes a political comment. It becomes a political conversation ideological conversation and audio ideology and politics often. You know that's kind of the same thing right. You know. We find out real quickly where people stand when you start giving perspective on why you believe in something or why you want this candidate or something right and it is no different than when bitcoins doing. Because when you start talking about your your privacy people can relate to that people can understand. Oh shoot yeah part privacy. Oh look at what facebook did and they had to go to Congress and explain themselves look at Cambridge Analytica. Look at all these other things things that have huge effects on our life right now. How do we change that? How do we take hold of that in cryptocurrency blockchain bitcoin allow that concept of starts seeping in right and so to me? It's supporting a certain style of interacting with people that I don't want to interact with right. They're going to try to interact with me one way or the next whether it be a marketer whether it be a a hacker whether it be somebody how do I protect myself in the most ways possible and this is a very basic way explaining. I know ashes watching. She could probably say thousand things to me right now but how I'm saying it wrong but I like like to keep this really simple. When you're opening up the conversation it has to be number one interesting and number two if you're gonNA fight with them they're not gonNA walk away with a pleasant attitude? Yeah I mean I have. Jim was the last argument with something about something with somebody that you already kind of disagreed with or did really find as a relevant or even maybe even then a credible point and be like. Oh well we just had this huge argument argument not now. I completely understand rare. especially if you're getting into Internet argument demand like it's even it's going to be even worse absolutely so you know it's funny because we briefly talked about ripple just right before we went live but I'll bring ripple up if I if I talk about P with somebody who does not know anything about bitcoin or Crypto. They're always like Oh yeah but but extra ripple and that's something I'll well listen. This is something I'll listen to and it's so funny to me. I mean not. Because they they they don't understand the reasons why I may have certain prejudices against it or whatnot but you know they. Hey look at it. Even though it's had a very similar path than going up and then coming back down as Bitcoin heck the bitcoin is gone down less than go has from. Its all time high which was three dollars and you know like sixty cents or something and now. Today's like twenty five twenty eight twenty nine cents something along those lines and you know I bring rip or they bring up rebel to me and it's a very different conversation because they feel so much more safe about potentially what ripple might do for the whole world and it's simply because of the affiliation with what banks are doing right. It makes them feel safe. It's familiar familiar. It's those same things that that crypto struggles with because the US isn't great ripple is familiar. It's something that they could feel like they can relate to or it makes it a little bit of sense and it because it has a practical application from the minimum that they know about it minimal amount that they know about it but even though that has such a negative in horrible you know Price price differentiation from. It's all time high the price of this today it they don't they don't take into effect that the same things that they do for Bitcoin like they forgive ripple certain things which Chom fine with forgive him get him in let them learn about the space the ripple. That's fine by me because a lot of them will then take except like. Oh Wow I see what the space is doing. So I don't have a problem here. Expertise even lower than I thought. Twenty two cents right. That's what Tim says anyways but Sorry for the long Turner. That's completely fine and pardon my ignorance a and obviously you don't have to get to do it but what is it about ripple that defended more or that is more familiar. Is it just what what is is it. Just well let's let's back up a little bit ago ripple and Ex Arpey are technically not the same thing. Okay okay there's a difference the the the the ripple network ripple blockchain okay is is is different than what the X.. RPI token is right now. I will admit sometimes oftentimes when I'm transferring. A certain amount of of of anything of of any CRYPTO is consolidated in the ripple. And then I send it because is fast and I love being able to explain to people how fast ripple as I have no problem problem with the the use case ripple It it exists. There's there's something and it to me the only use case I found a ripple is literally you know. Sitting my tokens for point eight. The point be and then disseminating back into other other coins or wherever or caching something out of I need to but you know ripple I do I don't want to hate all on ripple and say everything. The thing about them is bad. But what makes people feel familiar and what they okay themselves with is that it has affiliation with banks that is built around around transfers for banks from bank to bank transactions at a large scale right and to me. That's a really strong and great great conversation opener and I hate to encourage ripple in any way but if that's the way that you have to have a conversation with somebody to at least have them take you seriously I think that's okay right now. I mean I go on and on about things I don't like about ripple I I definitely have issues as what crypto and blockchain and and Bitcoin are supposed to or what they were intended to be. But that is that's very quickly dissipating like the blockchain is for whatever use case you want to as long as it's legal right and I got no issues whatsoever with with people having a conversation about about report early on right. It's just important that you also mentioned why there's differences and that's that should be its own show. That's probably something I need to bring Ashworth back on so she can explain. She doesn't really well. So yeah you think X.. Surpise going to rise from the BTC ashes or what since BTC's dead. And all I have to have to remember that we're on camera here I would definitely Glenn not here lies. Bitcoin a good run saying years. Ten Years Right Patrick's gotTa kill you in the early beloved. We are gathered here today to lay the rest bitcoin. I want straight crypto currency that drops below seven thousand dollars dollars and everyone says the sky was falling anyways. Yeah that was just like wicca. Further record everybody. Jim was actually playing the organ there so ashes on strike affair enough Exactly ten they only want it because they think it will make them rich. Yeah and that's a good point. Here's the thing. Yeah I mean if you get something twenty a sensor whatever yeah there's a lot of potential upside I suppose I- ripple has a at least one major run in it because ripple does have that quote quote unquote affiliation with the banks at least perception. I don't want to encourage anybody to buy by ripple and hold ripple long-term or anything like I said I use it. I sent from Point A.. Point B. I it's fast. That's what I like about. It ends there right does ripple have really big potential to at least reach. Its all time high. I personally don't think ripple will get much higher than it ever has already but there's a lot of space between here and there and if it just he reaches halfway to what it was which was three dollars and like fifty seventy cents. I don't remember you know that's almost two bucks. A dollar seventy right. And it's twenty two cents right now. Wow that's a lot. So on a investment side you know on a personal level. I look at that. I could see why it might be enticing. But I've been saying that since fifty cents and below right and all it's done is dropped dropped fifty percent in value or more at this case so when is a good time to buy it. I don't know if there's ever a good time to buy it because it's so I mean weird. It's weirder than all the other cryptocurrencies currency's my opinion. Yeah I mean again. I don't know a ton I it's definitely the one I always hear about. And even before I was Ah Looking more into the community in space. I'd seen it but again I I'm not a no way an expert obviously this. I'm not giving an investment advisor but you know on a personal level again. You know if I'm looking at ripple then look at Star lumens accelerate And the women's is something that I I love what they did last month when they burned. You know a third of their supply or even more I thought that was really nice of them to do. It said at least and I was really impressed with how they did that. An adult surprise Tony Body. They were doing it. You know so it was cool. You know I so if you're GONNA look into one of the aucoin like ripple at least go look at stellar but we could move on past that I just think that people should take ripple seriously in conversation because it's very familiar. People be prepared. Explain to them. Don't have to fight with them. Maceo don't buy ripple it sucks. No Man let them have their conversation if that interests them let them have that way of a bridge. It's an entry point into the blockchain space. And you you know if that's what it takes. Let them do it man. You know they'll figure it out or they won't mill. You're also kind of saying like you don't quite understand if someone can like try to shit on Bitcoin. And then and because they're like well you know look at ripple you know what I'm saying because it's like they're going through their own growing pains and drops and rises as well. It's all it's all kind of part of the space in general right. Yes I I'm hesitant to go into too much detail at on a big level but it does it does piss me off that people are so okay with having. This is where the media comes in the media is not against ripple the way that it likes to make make fun of Bitcoin. Right Adam obeys here everybody. I post thing here extra. Here's his comments. I'm unaffiliated affiliated with With any of these comments whatsoever and so within radio the laser Dude Adam obey see. He's saying yep now Adams good dude. He's been part of the community for a long time. Look let me let me give the extra appeal Army props if you literally attack them they they will forever never ever forget you and they will always be there to remind you that you said you hated ripple so you always built a careful so anyone have ripple radio DOT com. Ouch but that's really funny. Someone's going out now. Someone parked on it. You could buy it for thirty thirty three hundred dollars. If you're in the market guys fair fair enough all right Jim so let me let me ask you because I think your perspective and this is not just relevant. I think it is the perspective active. That is probably most necessary to at least Here here from because you're in between like you believe in you. You like this space enough to have interest. And you've sustained some interest. Chris and you're in you're out. You're still here right you know. And and your banking on your time being worth it at some point whether it be actually owning some some bitcoin cryptocurrency or participating bitcoin radio and being producing the show. And and and editing. All these podcasts. You know I mean it's not just a money space for you. There's some things that attracted you. How would you explain blinded like and you don't have to go into details but like do you find this as an embarrassment to you right now like if someone asks you you're like Oh man I hate having explain this or are you still fired up does this? Even you've been concerned you in a little bit no I mean mostly because You know hearing from people like you and other people in the space aced and of course listening to Bitcoin radio and hearing Whether it be I mean obviously we had said on this very show in the past like bitcoin. Bitcoin isn't necessarily the same as blockchain but just knowing a little bit about the technology where things are headed. I understand that kind of chain. Well you know what I mean like. It's not like bitcoin. has its own things in blockchain as its own things as well like seperation of two and also I guess ask from having some throughout the summer and seeing what happens like I like obviously this kind of on the lower and from my personal experience where I've seen it but I'm past the point of like staring at the price all day like like the first like month or so that I got a little bitcoin whereas I was just looking at the pricing and charts and being like. Oh what's this. Oh what's that now. It's like I'm like shit that sucks. It's down but I'm not like concerned -cerned really and I don't know I guess that's a good thing until maybe unless I ride all the way down to zero and then I'm like fuck I shoulda the known shouldn't listen to Joe Blackburn. Well on that you know. It's just like Jim. You got in at a time period. Heard where for the most part people were so pessimistic but they were momentarily happy right now because bitcoin had rose all the way up to almost fourteen thousand dollars. It was amazing. It was great to see that. Come back and if you backtrack all the way back and we bring this up several times at least a month you know if not every episode that we were at thirty to thirty three hundred dollars at one point this year. Yes that's the other piece to just knowing that where it was before Laura. I know it's still kind of coming out ahead of the game and then kind of seeing where it's going to go from there so even if you go back to January of twenty seventeen right and you say command. Bitcoin was at eight hundred bucks and then fast forward January twenty eighteen. We were like you know I don't know Eighteen eight thousand bucks right and then we came all the way back down and January. Twenty nine thousand nine. We were at three thousand something bucks right. There's one big big huge difference in all of those prices if you go back from the very beginning of Bitcoin all the way to today. There's only one year that that ever happened happened right. I mean it's literally just one year and it was January twenty eighteen years. You have major price differences. But they've all been positive price differences for the most part. It's just that one anomaly. And if you go back and remind people hey January two thousand eighteen or twenty eight hundred dollars you know January in two thousand and nine thousand nine hundred thirty five hundred bucks and he just eliminate that one huge price runup bad. You're not having this conversation at all. The worst thing that happened to Bitcoin and the best talk bitcoin is it went to almost twenty K.. Right that makes sense. Yeah Yeah and again from Michael in the chat. You must watch the price all day if you want to understand it. It's fluid ebb and flow prices. Part of its allure right now. I kind of get that. What I'm saying is like I have? I guess I'm not GonNa say the me I'm I'm holding. I'M NOT GONNA say the Meam says I'm just GonNa say it now. I'm not GONNA do that. That's that's to me now. I think bottle normal Normal so I know I'm just holding so I get what you're saying like that's Kinda understanding like what the market's at but I'm not at the point where I'm like stressing over right. I mean I guess if I was like a day trader or people that do that type stuff. Obviously it's all different story But I guess I'm just confident enough that I feel like it's GonNa Bounce back a you know the back story on Hoddle Jim since I mean sometimes I forget that you're you're probably not aware to all how all the stuff started are you. Were you around. Assume I. I assumed it was something like tone in the video game world where people would just mistype than it would travel and become much. Share this with you okay. So so I'll talk when Shirt now is going to say okay. Let me find the post. Let me find the post. I'm getting folks. I'm honored to be able to be the person that explains this suggest history. I actually kind of cool all right. Yep So hoddle which I thought when I first got in salt for the first time I thought I thought it meant something like hold on for dear life right and that obviously is You know it makes sense. And I'm not the only person who thinks that you know it looks like an acronym it doesn't say hold I mean if we're just holding something we would literally just say. Hold it right you know. But there's a reason why this exists. So I'm you know I'm going to send this to you right now. It is bitcoin. Talk Dot Org Forum. Hold on I hear Shit. Goes down the big Wayne talk form though he said it was yes. Bitcoin Talk Dot Org and that was the the original. Bitcoin you know. Hang out place. That was the decrypt coins writer of. Its Day right so here. It is the origin of Hoddle. And I'm going to send it to you and you. You should even read it out loud. How about that? I'm going to put it in the chat up. Actually just ask just put it on there. But I'm also putting in the private jet crash if you can click on that Jim I think you'll or copy paste that. Why don't you read it out loud for us? So is the the main. I don't have to read all these threads right. I just have to read this first thing. Yup and I want to read read the title. Okay keep mine everybody. If you're new to Crypto Ash Ashes posted the link But you can find all between bitcoin. Talk Dot Org work It's it's just search talk dot Org Hoddle and And two thousand thirteen separate t two thousand thirteen almost a year. Go ten. AM my time. I don't know what time it was where he's from He wrote this. I am hobbling go ahead and he obviously missed everybody. Just the record. Yeah Yeah Okay title. I am heartily I typed that title twice because I knew it was wrong. The first time still wrong what jeffs out at lesbian bar. BTC crashing crashing. Why am I holding Elia? Why because I'm a bad trader and I know bad trader? Yeah you good traders. There's can spot the highs and lows pit pat fifty wing Guangming Baton McMillan Mill No Bucks Chairman Lien. Their million in bucks. Sure no problem bro. Likewise the weekends are like Ohio. It's going down. I'm GonNa sow and then they're like doc. Oh God my astle when the smart traders who know what they're doing by back in but you know what I'm not part of that group when the traders by back in a Mardi par wait when the trade back in. I'm already part of the market capital. So guess who you're Cheating Day traders not me those time threads saying ooh you should have sold. Yeah no shit no shit. I should've saw I should've sold mall before every fell bob moments before every by but you know what not everybody is cool is as cool as you. You only sell in a bear market. If you're a good day trader. An illusion knew the people in between hall in a zero-some game such as this traders can only take your money of yourself so I've had some whisky actually on the bottle. It's spelled whisky. Whatever sue me but only if it's payable and BTC so what did you say man? This is great story. I mean I guess I was Kinda correct I was a little right. I knew it was like something to do with probably Typo but yeah I like that. He the stories a little bit deeper than that because he kind of saw the Typo but he was just he was is drunk he was just had it with this kind of had it with it. But he's also given in and resigned himself to the life he's living and spilled his guts out on a form orm everyday appreciate that now and Jim. Obviously I should have shared that with you in private private. So you're not seeing for the first time but I think it's catcher that and it's raw element you know but to me that's a really important aspect of where we are today like. That's they I that mentality is the holders mentality right. That's the way that you should be thinking about in a lot of ways. You're I'm not. I'm already part the mark capital. I'm not adding to or taking away from it right and guess what if everybody just quits stop selling bitcoin. I know Ashley Argue with me on this but if you just quit selling your bitcoin folks becomes more rare and if everybody just stopped selling bitcoin it would almost be priceless like there would be no way to put it market value. On right right you gotTa have some cell but just enough just to keep the price going up right. Stop Selling Your bitcoin traders. This is really on you. You know when when when price goes down it's the traders is the sellers Utah Utah causing your go down and this community small enough where you could pretty much go find everybody who sallied Bitcoin for the most part and you can see the wallets that are dumping their bitcoin. Bitcoin and therefore you know you should. You should be really You should be really aware that you're hurting everybody. When you're selling that much but nevertheless it's free market you can do whatever you want? And that's just my opinion. You can do whatever the hell you want to do. I can't stop it. Yeah Fair enough. But you're taking food out of my child's mouth who just being dramatic I do you take it out of my child's house arrest In Tim obviously in terms of trade or one of the great ones. He's somebody who I respect respected journey and I think it's amazing obviously trade myself and I'll sell bitcoin. I got paid for something you know so I mean I'm not immune to to selling bitcoin. I just think that you know the traders focused on the price to an extent that it really manipulates it. Down Right people are going to assume it's going down so they're trading and they're selling more than they're buying right now because they expected go down because the sustainable influx of new money. It just doesn't there and so by default you're not going to have the Bulls win more than the bears. You're just going to have the Bulls win in massive droves for short amounts of time because the bears will drive it back down and that's the problem I have with it all. Fuck the bears right it. Yup Yeah in every cell is a by everybody has a cell. Liquidity is crucial. I understand that concept but what if we did not sell I mean it just makes it harder to buy it makes it more rare and at some point we're going to be in a situation where it is rare and people are not like how how I mean you could always go find gold right but people aren't just taking gold the gold market and Saint by my gold and then buying it back or selling selling gold and buying it back. No people do trade gold absolutely right but but they're not doing this on a on the magnitude of Of the way that Bitcoin is at least in the in the sense in they. If you compare the amount of people buying and selling into the actual size of the cryptocurrency space and then take the gold space amount of people who have bought and the amount of people who are trading it. It's a much shoe. It's a huger way way bigger a massively. Bigger amount in crypto than there is in the golden silver markets that are traders that way so well at at the end of the day. Then do we panic or do we not panic. No you just wait until everybody realizes. Bitcoin is the thing to have again. And then it reestablishes a new a new bottom autumn and a brand new all time high and I think that all time highest one hundred thousand dollars very is there a price point where it's okay to panic. Let's say how do you go if it's if it's below if it's at like twenty five hundred. Do we panic a little bit. Well that would mean that we lost our previous bottom right so a little concern. Obviously when you're at twenty five hundred dollars compared to seven thousand dollars at twenty five hundred our bitcoin you know every hundred dollars is a lot more of a percentage than it is right now right Orange Virginia to buy more well it is I mean. Look what if you told people people in July that you could buy Bitcoin at twenty one hundred dollars right now set of fourteen thousand. How would people feel so the relativity of the the the price ice is is immediate for people right and look? I also agree with Michael What he just said margin trading killing the Kripa space? I think it does bring a really negative additive in pessimistic. Bearish tone to the whole space. Because you're you're first off your trade with Bitcoin not yours you're borrowing and secondly you know the crypto exchanges They want you to lose right and You Know I. It just adds to this negative sentiment and long-term you'd a lot of newbies go and Blues Bitcoin and then it goes to people who are going to sell it you know rather than hold it. Most people who go and lose bitcoin exchanges are not you know season traders obviously because those people know how to limit themselves not how to take big losses. They know how to to set themselves up for wins and be happy when they're up one percent rather than fifty percent you know some people expect and a hundred dollars and you want to make a thousand. That's four hundred percent profit folks can happen. Sure you gotta be exactly right though every every time you can't lose and you gotTa make sure stop losses and you know if you're only bet with two hundred eighty bucks. Fifty Bucks isn't enough. Even though fifty bucks on two hundred fifty s twenty percent you know shit I mean I it's relative but it's you know people lose that when they go to Al do it. Look I got one hundred extra dollars in Crypto. Guess what I'm doing I'm GonNa go roll my dice on the Great. BITCOIN exchange called oil. If I was allowed to it'd be I'd go to bit Max. And then one hundred x one hundred hours and try to make a thousand bucks a day just off one hundred dollars because it's fun and it's engaging keep my mind busy And you know up to Michael's point ultimately it's cell I lose and then it's automatically going. I went to an exchange that selling it you know. Well Shit. I lost my thought was going to say is I. I guess one of the better places to be and I'm saying this kind of facetiously. NBA little sarcastic is to be that guy on the sidelines. Because you know there are those those guys on the sidelines like you said when it was hitting you know thirteen in July or whatever the fuck I wish I bought at seven but then when it drops at seven like like how many of those people actually do buy at seven. They're kind of like those are the same people that are like well but it's done game over it. Yep Now It's a good point Jim mcgann and it's people they ride on their motions in this. You know. Think about the person who bought five years ago closed. Her eyes is closer computer and didn't look at until today. How how do they feel right? When big was at four hundred dollars you know six hundred bucks whatever it might have been and you know again ashes furniture after? I know that I'm gambling on that and I'm expecting to lose one hundred dollars for Tasha's point. She says the difference is that you know you're saying that you know capital letters gambling and and tempests. I I hope you you You get the Sarcasm in gyms pessimism in some of his sarcastic remarks about bitcoin dying you know. Obviously he would be here if he'd literally thought that and if he was We would have an honest conversation about it but I don't think he actually believes that. I don't want to speak for your job. No I'm just I'm playing up. The I'm just kind of playing devil's advocate advocate to a lot of things. I'm all set holding up the environment. What I'm seeing people in the community animals will just trying to get Joe Blackburn? A little fired up. Get them a little rowdy. See what he's GonNa say. Well my folks house. I can't get drunk as I'd like to It's a I got my kid and You know I gotTa Take Care of her so I gotta got to be low responsible so I can't get as loose as I'd like to but but also to what you said Jim is that it's also important for people to hear me. Have that conversation with Jim Right. I think it's I mean we're we're we're keeping it simple and we're not gonNA have a super long tonight in fact we're probably GonNA light winding down here shortly but But I want people to feel like they can reach. If you're having a problem with with something or if you want to explain something specifically I know myself as Rolston ten pace among many of the people that are watching tonight and commenting you could just find one of their comments and you can probably feel really comfortable going with them. you know and You know we're going to them and asking them to help you explain this to somebody you know. Tell me what. Your problems are. Common Questions We'll have this conversation conversation. We can have it with them. Bring them on live. If you want to do a live over Thanksgiving dinner. Let me know that could be great. TV Bro. I'm out you know and and ask them in my dad's office. I'm not in mind so I mean I don't mind showing hold on. She wants to see you know line over there. There's another one over here and it's hard to see him. I'm from this point. Those are Alabama Mississippi. Dear the way that I like to. But we're very proud of all of our animals and we are outdoorsman and we respect the environment that the the wildlife and the the wonderful thing that is The Woods I mean it's just it's it's in my blood right so we like to. I don't like to go and bike helmet. That's been through the processor Jim. That's that's that's been injected with steroids. And I like to know that I have honest real meat coming. I'm from you know the the God given you know environment like I love it. You're going there. You're chopping them up and going through the the whole butcher. Sure thing like you're you're you're buring it. Yes it's too Yucky. It's not it's not like somebody's got to do it right. Oh no no I agree. Someone's it's almost like against I'm not against like eating meat or hunting or anything like that. But I'm just thinking like Yucky is until Oh you realize like everybody in human existence until like a couple of days decades ago was doing this to survive literally daily habits. They they had to keep by. They didn't have refrigeration or freezers. Either a hundred years ago they killed it and ate all of it or they smoked it which took a lot of work to you know. Oh and so. Many people were saying here about Bitcoin on computers and Internet money and Christmas. And how you get argue with people and we're not talking about. How are we going to eat tomorrow and staying alive for the next winter right? I mean we're really lucky to be in this day and age. I mean life is Kinda cool. I've seen into the wild he. He killed a deer but he didn't know Even up in Alaska. You didn't know how to keep it fresh enough so to get bugs and maggots already lost it. All right. Yeah and he was really upset wasn't he. Yeah that's why he died exactly. Why Fortunately Got Russell or apparently but anyways we can move on from our delicious talk about meat I know not everybody? I'm not trying to get into arguing about that. Joe Wants can eat him alive. I actually don't chicken. which is odd? I mean I'll have some chicken. I'm not against chicken. I just don't like chicken from the store. I don't have a problem with it so manella but that's not to say that I won't go to Popeye's and get chicken sandwich overrated. I haven't tried it yet. Yeah me neither. That's what I mean it's overrated overrated. Well I'm not but I know I know it ain't worth I mean I know we're we're not talking about crypto right now but I know any worth waiting in line almost getting beat up or whatever. I know. It Ain't worth that especially you're definitely get beat up Jim. I'm sure you could talk your way out of it. I would just be like get out of my way by Bitcoin. What give my chicken sandwich? POW is now but CHICK-FIL-A. I'm not I'm not a big chicken eater so I don't go there very often. I do like how they put their pick on there. There's just something about chick-fil-a tastes. I don't really love their fries. Which I'M GONNA get probably killed over so I don't go to Chick-fil-a that often I do like Popeye's because they sell shrimp and I like shrimp so I'll go to Popeye's Popeye's before ever go to a chick-fil-a but I mean I I try not to have this conversation too but I just I find like Popeye's probably does chicken sandwiches pretty good because they're really good at making things really fattening and really yummy? I'm sure it's good. I'm sure it's good. I'm just I mean maybe the hype died down. I'm just at the time when people people are waiting again in our line or something like that. I I ain't about that life experience it's about the experience lame experience I mean but there's many the things that are Lennox differences that individuals find. That are cool. What would be a cool experience? I'll wait in line for Disney ride and that's cool and kick gas okay not waiting in line for a dumb Popeye's Sandwich Marshall. If you're listening right now you wait in line for more than thirty. He minutes for a sandwich. I don't like you well I will say what would you wait in line on when it comes to food Well I have have waited in line at trendy spots before I can't think of any of them offhand ooh I waited at in Nashville. What's there it's the touristy chicken that they have had he beats? I waited in line for that. I don't think it was that long though but I mean at what point do you find Jim like like this is too long of a wait. it's a good question. That's a great question I guess it depends. You're talking about just for food. Yeah just for food like I've been let's say I'm not saying it specifically to a restaurant not Popeye's but like if you wanted to go somewhere what's the point where you're just like it. This isn't worth it probably. It's it's tough because if you had a sit down restaurant you're fine with waiting but you're talking specifically waiting in line nine. I mean whatever I mean I'm not being generic here. Is there a certain a point in timers like okay. Eighteen probably thirty minutes thirty minutes would be the cutoff. Okay Fair Enough Helena. DRUCE has had Abe's was put chicken would open on Sunday. Yeah we agree. That's part of the visas. Great Ahead Hattie B.'s. Aren't you an even a Nashville boy right. But I'm not a chicken eater so Gotcha Gotcha but I've heard several great things about it. You're not the first person bring it up. It's it's or at least nationally famous and I. I don't mind waiting in line. I JUST WANNA wait in line more than like ten minutes so if I automatic I don't I I actually have more patients than you for a line. I mean I was in Austin in September and I was almost going to go to Franklin's barbecue where that is pitched like you're gonNA wait in line but it is like you would. We're saying an experience lead supposed to be part of it but I ended up going to a different place. Ace where the guy was taught by the same person who taught. Franklin's argues amazing of course and a lot of his touristy now news but barbecue is one of those foods is that I will wait for And I won't complain that much anyways but we're getting way off topic. We can wind up on the hour and I know we both have things to do. And I'm at home with the family. I know a lot of you are finishing up work. Maybe hit home tomorrow again. Folks please be careful. Please be safe best-case if you're not necessarily celebrating the American tradition of Thanksgiving you're somewhere or else or you just don't WanNa do Thanksgiving whatever. I still hope that you have a wonderful week and I and I hope that you're telling everybody about bitcoin. If you need help go to Bitcoin for Christmas there's a budget documents Humi- you know. I know you could reach out. People like Ash. She's got a wonderful educational thing with cryptic and you know obviously friend moderator drew. Michael might have some news about him. Coming up drew. I'm glad you watch tonight anybody else. If you guys got things going on Andrew P I would talk great things about you but I have nothing to say. Oh God him. anyways now may manager tend to go back to back and forth all the time and I appreciate his insight fullness. I'll leave it at that and we'll and we'll we'll until next time all right jam. This is bitcoin radio everybody they'd BTC. Were bitcoin lives. What we Miss Jim? Anything else why you just want to call it. I think we got on that food tip because we're already in Thanksgiving mode so we're yeah. We're already getting ready for a feast east but yes the CRYPTO verse people. It belongs to all of us especially you're in these Down Dark Times even. This is obviously not the darkest time but I'm just saying people get pretty down. But the crypto verse belong to all of us. We know we're doing for we know Joe Blackburn's doing for it what are you doing for it. W._B._Z. bitcoin lives. The wait is over next time everybody.

BITCOINS Jim Joe Blackburn Tim Pace US Bitcoin Jimmy Fallon facebook Jim Right Jim Josh Donaldson Alabama blockchain BTC Ashley Meredith Michael
LTB 2020 Update (Looking for Jr. Producers!)

Let's Talk Bitcoin!

01:54 min | 10 months ago

LTB 2020 Update (Looking for Jr. Producers!)

"The folks and be Levine with a brief update on Lt. be with twenty twenty dawning. We're coming up on year. Eight of the. Let's Talk Doc. Bitcoin show and frankly we've done a lot of talking in that time. In the early days we did a lot of interviews which helped mix things up with the commercialization of the space and then. ICO's the whole world where there are literally thousands of blockchain projects hoping to strike it rich. We quickly became uncomfortable. As the original nerd money with its idealist became the world of pitches and marketers marketers without many interviews as the years have passed the shows become more inward-looking as be explored our personal passions and perspectives as the world changed around US perspective perspective and personal context or arguably. The thing I think is most important about what the show is. And what it's good at doing and we'd like to build on that this year. So in twenty twenty we wanna do something a little different and add more perspectives to the show without adding more permanent hosts and so we're looking up to four listeners. To join the lead start Bitcoin team as junior in your producers. You don't have to be a long time listener to participate. All it's required of a good candidate is that you're knowledgeable about the space paying attention to events as they happen and have an opinion in your perspective on what it all means. Might Junior producers will be asked to write up and send in a monthly report on the most important most under appreciated most misunderstood misunderstood or other such personal on judgments about the world of Crypto. You'll also be asked to join me on a monthly call to discuss your report and make sure I understand your perspectives correctly. All all told for the right candidate this work and follow up. Meetings should be no longer than five hours per month. And this is a payroll to apply. Send an email to Adam at lt be show. Oh Dot Com. Let's start before his back next week with new episodes act.

US Levine Bitcoin ICO Adam five hours
The Bitcoin Podcast #241

The Bitcoin Podcast

1:10:22 hr | 1 year ago

The Bitcoin Podcast #241

"Now entering. Podcast worry. Yes. Welcome to the pig. Sure. Pets us roll deep like. Chains. Talking bid. Bick broadcast. Dobson. Robotic welcomes you the Chuck Mangione show. Bitcoin podcast episode number two hundred forty one that your first house Marcello and most number d most. Sorry. A most number two the host number see Corey this or petty. Come at you live today. We're gonna play Chuck Mangione the background the entire ups are those why not do. Can you do to flag us, and we said flags if you want to you to the people need to hear Chuck Mangione? So also a bit of a bit of operational stuff out the date and get this over with. Site went under normal for a little bit. We're in the process of migrating it she knew hosting platform tinsel complete rework of it. We're not quite sure yet. So all the content is still available through podcasts players. But not just if you spend your time going to website, a lot don't be surprised if it's weird athlete. They're not updated. It'll be updated. But. What on a better? Yeah. You're just making us better. Heck failed. Whatever doesn't kill us makes us stronger. And I actually got that quote from what's her name? Jessica simpson. Okay. So what are we talking about today fills a lot of talk? There is there's always a lot of talk pillow had point to point once you once you hit the slack with the joint button. Oh, it started. Yeah. So there is a net flix released. The fire foot documentary but on January fourteenth Hulu released their own documentary called fire fraud. And I was watching it. Basically fire festival was supposed to be like Coachella must be this amazing music festival on the Maldives islands or something supposed to be like, really exclusive and. All the big bands were supposed to supposed to be there and him and John rule entered a partnership. You. Yeah. If you don't know job role, he was a rapper poplar when we were in high school not so much now, but it was really cool because the morals watching this the more I was realizing the parallels between ICO's and the fire festival. So the the owner or the guy who was doing the fire festival. Spoiler alert. He's in jail for six years because he created a product that never happened. He had like KENDALL Jenner on Instagram promoting it he had jaw rule. Promoting it all these people just the same way. ICO's? We'll get like parasol there Floyd Mayweather. So you had like all these empty promises. You had marketing behemoths promoting it you had people that bought into it. They didn't get refunds ally. People actually went to the islands and instead of seeing grand stage paradise. They were met with porta-pottys huts and nobody performed and they just flew back and. I guess the reason why I'm bringing this up is because Justice was served of this guy. Like this guy like didn't deliver on his promise. He took all these money from investors and he's in jail for six years. We'll ask you did the exact same thing. But instead of a concert, you could do an icy. Oh, and nobody got indicted, even with like SEC regulations and all that it was just like, oh, it was just a thing to do in two thousand eighteen and now he can't do it anymore. People getting dieted people are paying the piper. It's just not jar rules, not in it. So it's not that big deal. What's DJ Callahan? Them was named Floyd Mayweather had to settle you know, they had to settle in court or outside accord for what they did their involvement in those ICS they were volved in so people are being indicted, but I will agree with you that it's like almost not enough. And some of it is hard to. I mean, if you are responsible for tracking down thousands problem thousands, maybe hundreds of shitty ICO's that went down last year in the year before and they don't even have anybody involved with. It is just one person who successfully created a shell website Graham of high quality photos off the internet made him look like they're advisors used the VPN. So you have no idea where even the source of him putting this stuff on the internet is I mean, it'd be hard to track down he wrote art that fire guy was easy to track that guy down. It was like, hey, you the guy says you're gonna do all those things didn't go that money. You're going to jail for that. It's it's much different for for an ICU much different. So. Maybe it was I don't think it is. Now. Well, the fact that the SEC and a lot of government is kind of shutdown slash on on a hold. They're not going to be processing a lot of things like a lot of the work that they would be doing when they were already understaffed and the process of having a fully functioning government United States. They're not doing now, they're doing less now because of government shutdown stuff. So who knows I this stuff this stuff they fly into the radar because there's so much work. That's backlogged that they need to do. There's not enough people doing it. Feel like. It's almost like you need to be faster than the slowest person. And a lot of ways. So if you're kinda shady, maybe we'll get away with it because there's just incredibly shady people doing of stuff, they're going to be obvious targets for things, and they're they're probably going to get Justice served. But there's a lot of people who do in kinda shady shit that probably won't ever happen to them. Now, do you think they'll be their defense or what the statute of limitations like how long can you go before someone come back at you and say, hey, what did what'd you do back? Then let's go back into how you did that and see if it's if it's the goal. I don't I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. I don't know the government. There's so many projects is hard to keep up unless you're like go for ration- of projects student mini. They're all garbage. And so like, I would say the journey either. Attention it you're gonna come from. Investors who spent a lot of money who got scammed that when they complain. They're the ones that usually draw attention to the ones that then go the SEC or whatever. Sorry again. Can't you hear go in though, it's hard to focus on SEC doing or not doing their job with Chuck is Leonard rift. Should I always thinking about the the Miami? Bitcoin conference was going on this week to in my house sexy was this year when there's no money to be made curious are still like. Ambos and such and all the nonsense. That was I'm sure there is there's still there's still bitcoin. I don't see why you would go who's going to stunt. I saw Krista rose they're doing their choir. Why are people going there? Again, Chris the rose a hit Miami last year at the last one last year yet he he had so many people around his booth like I could barely go off to the guy. He's he's character from the beginning. He was he was loud in the beginning and knowledgeable and made a name from self with like, the core groups and has been loud enough that everyone knows who he is. What was he schilling the conference show? He feels no things he's just overly philosophical with things that shouldn't don't need that much thought. Like, you don't have to get that deep, man. But. Caring eight. As easy. Did. There seem to do there. Cream is going to have to talk. If you're in there, you gotta talk. She can't all listening doesn't likes to dish. Just comes the conversation. Patriotic if you're going to be doing this or else, you gotta talk come out. Come out say something we kicking. You gotta be patriots say it speak up. Saw you're not muted anymore. Mike. Oh. Google meet and they refused to speak because Mike broke. Maybe they just wanna listen all of that. While we had to be so totalitarian. Yeah. Just enable the Mike and then you'll be able to speak. So when you get a go in. We'll have you tried man. I would like to I would like to know how the consensus transition has been since rule in the last few months weeks how much how much can we get in on that consensus info? Or wall? She comes on the show. She's in talks, you probably like I've not representing consensus because that would be best for her. You probably should say that cream if you get your mic situation fix so X topic next topic. I wanna talk about layer too. In what it even means? And does it mean that we're getting one step closer to the point where oh there's only gonna be a gaggle of who really understand what's going on? And everybody else is just going to be able to benefit from the hard work in the hard. I dunno intellectual merits of a handful of people because I feel like the more layers. We add is the more complexity ad, which in my mind. The more complex thing is the less people know how actually works. So that's what I feel like is is naturally gonna happen. And if that does happen the you have a easy. Zoo. One hop skip away away from like, oh, we're going to have to have trust that since relies into teason. There's a lot as me one don't words out. You're absolutely right. And that the more layers you build on top understanding the full stack and complexity associated with how it how you go from the base layer to the end user is more complex and harder to understand and less likely the person who's actually using the service understands how everything works. That's inevitable in my opinion, by the time this thing scales out the same thing as the internet. There's a ton of things that are happening between meekly something outside and be retrieving it from somewhere else or talking to someone on us, social media, or whatever the hell, I'm doing on the internet. That's gonna happen. What I find interesting is that we could make money out of these things. So it's probably even in some ways going to be more difficult or took to understand than how the internet is today. And but like, it's it's also more options, which makes it more difficult because it's not one way of doing things we have multiple ways of doing things because it's not just this or the internet. It's using a blockchain system with its layers on top as well as the internet and centralized infrastructure for building a product or platform as a service, whatever you're using a massive grab bag of technologies to provide something to somebody. Now. I don't know if it's always going to be so transparent as it is today because that's one of the hallmarks of the early days. It's like everything is transparent from the blockchain. You can see it like as we build these facts like think about let's take for instance, state channels, right? We'll just take this as an example. And how you lose some of that transparency do state channel. You submit a transaction on the blockchain that says I'm going to enter in the Goshi -ation for this amount of money. We'll call it a hundred dollars, right? And then a bunch of things happen off the chain. Could be thousands of transactions happen between the two parties. Or however, many parties are associated with stay channel. The long time when they're like. Okay, guys. We're done. Let's submit the final transaction that has the final balance of whatever the parties are now from a transparency perspective, you only get those transactions the one that started it in the wanna finish it. And you lose all of the granularity from a public perspective of what is this meant down and how went down, and that's just one aspect of like losing transparency as you build layers on top of things plasma is gonna be the same thing in some ways. And so only a smaller subset of people. We're going to have access that information which is good in some scenarios where businesses the privacy. But it's bad. If you wanna have a fully public ledger where you can really dive in and see what's going on at a really granular level. And so if you build more and more stacks say like LASMO's layer to what if there's a layer three you're going to keep losing that great let that transparency as you keep going up as well as the complexity of understanding. We're things. Now that company is going to be able to prove solvency in a lot of ways. It's built on this new technology for like, they really can't do that. In a lot of ways. Now in a way, that's like doesn't like give away all information exchanges. If they implemented certain things could prove solvency of all the money that they hold. They can say if everyone referred to their money, we could give it to everybody. They could prove that. Like, imagine a Bank doing that. This does. So it's yes, it's you're right. It's going to get more difficult to understand how things work. But if it's better, it's more efficient, if it's more transparent than how it is today, and you have more options to build things. To cater to the end user than good, which is. I don't know. Like, I guess you still have the option to build on the lowest layer, you don't have to use these two solutions. If you want to. Shoe like state channels become ubiquitous plasma becomes really really really big for for theory or whoever else like all these all these two solutions become really really useful for applications to build really fast, and and useful at officiant applications platforms. You can still send a bitcoin transaction on the base bitcoin blockchain, you can still send a basic transaction on their blockchain, regardless of hell useful. These other things are. Taking it away. Now, maybe if become so popular that gets kind of expensive to do that. Then the reasons why you would do so change at you have maybe you do that. If you a million dollars somebody for five cents. It's just. How do we push adoption still? Because knowing that adoption is the only thing that matters. If it always looks like there's going to be a glass ceiling on the people that actually understand it. Right. It doesn't tie into the book that you gave us chill about crossing the chasm. Like is it a certain point where you just don't worry about people that don't understand it at all it just like, you know, I don't get it the nagging to get those keep pushing forward, I think quite cello clo on a technical level. You mean? Yeah. Yeah. No, no one's gonna no one's gonna understand like lightning that work. Where to solutions? It's like they're they have to do so much to diligence even figure out. How corn base works? I just think the engineers are only going to stand the technical aspect, and they're just going to have to find a way to make a lot of the stuff move in the background with minimum understanding corio. Is that example about like understanding your wifi? I don't eat understand it to use it. That's very true. So do we need people to understand for adoption? Take off. And if so how do we do that? I mean right now follow along that book just reference. Re adoption is relative to the time that we're in and cater to the people who were trying to adopt two. Early early adopter early adopters the fanatics almost at this. There's a difference between what are we talking about adoption? We're talking about people participating in the space or understanding the space because it's two different things. I think right now based on how things work participating. Here's a brick understanding a requirement of dissertation right now, unless you're just passively investing using third party services like quite base. I don't call it adoption. I call that almost funding for the developers and people who are building things. Lot of have passed it investments that either propping the price up and a lot of ways or it's direct investment into a team doing something that they've convinced somebody to pay the money for. So when coin based releases this statistic that you know, we got, you know, two hundred thousand new sign ups every day. You don't think that's a win? Because, you know, your uncle asking you at thanksgiving just wants to turn ten dollars theory in two thousand dollars. He's not part of the ecosystem of understanding. I mean, it's an aspect of moving forward. Like when we started. And you said, oh, I do podcast on bitcoin people like what? Actually, get a response in the airport on the way back home yesterday. Now, you say it and oh, no shit. What do you do with bitcoin? Actually, I do more than bitcoin bitcoin because I knew that you would understand that word like we can you know, someone's gonna. It's weird. If someone hasn't heard of bitcoin going point the seeds been planted baby that's direct change from when we started this this whole thing. Yep. Let's definitely true. We're flirting with you know, the flirt with everybody now the seeds been planted. You know, what happens that the plant grows? We all know what you do the plant on going on. He was but the season plan. So actually talk about that in airport play my switch like a g smashing in. This do pose at his switch, and I'm like, yo you smash which only you can only say that to another man when you're when you both have a switch because you look at another grown, man. He's a hey, you wanna smash that that means something different in? That's okay. And see read it post yesterday where these people they put a projector their balcony, and we're playing smash brothers against the side of a building. Yeah. I'm jealous. That game is good. But a projector. Look like crap I get pissed anyway. Anyways. Start audio gap is to be his name's Adam. He produces music for gang called gun gin, which was apparently really popular it made fifteen million dollars. So I guess some of you out there playing it anyways. I started talking about what I do. And then he was like, well what your side game. Because everyone our age now has to have a psychic is just the way the world works. And I was like that's interesting thing will the bitcoin podcast, and he got really interested. And then he started like he actually knew a lot about what was going on. And so we are in the third now, no pun intended. And he was really interesting like when he started telling me about the transaction restrictions and the fees went up, and then as like, well, there is this thing all the lighting that's live. And he got like really interested in that to now he could just be a techie kind of guy, obviously. But it is out there people do know crypto is they specially know what big win is. But it's just one of those things that. When it sits on this fence of risky investment. You know, when it sits on the risky investment fence, not a lot of people are gonna wanna dive deep into risky investment. And so it was interesting conversation. Hopefully, he's listening to this show shutout. Adam congratulations on your games and stuff that is like marine. I remember us talking about this earlier when I see oh boomers go on our vice buying staff trying to figure out what to do and how to spend their money a port a part of that that I thought was very beneficial thing to the entire ecosystem degeneration was the concept of thinking about how to use your money, and how to invest and how to make your money work for you and the exercises have going through, and and and plan these games and making decisions based on where you put your money how you allocate it when you stop like those are not things that I thought about when I was younger. As things that most people think about ever, and this technology and a lot of ways almost forces you to make those decisions are thinking about those types of things, which is a really really good thing if you would like to be successful and learn to manage your money properly. Yep. We go from like talking about technology to money so fluidly, but that's the nature of crypto. So I thought that was a really cool thing. And I think it's still going to be a cool thing. It's just maybe not going to be. As on the forefront of conversation. If we don't have another crazy high cycle like we did last time, maybe will is the same thing. I don't know. I'm curious to see if it repeats itself, and we go through all the same shenanigans. Again. I think it's I think it's going to repeat itself same shenanigans in. It's gonna happen. Several more times. One the nature of the assets winning right now, bitcoin deflationary, and there's only so many end it's approaching that glass ceiling really quickly it's approaching its approach in that cap really quickly quicker than we realize way yet. It's when will million what's the mating cried gas? I mean, what is it by the year twenty thirty. It's gonna be like right there when he won four zero not know by twenty one forty it's gotta but it, but it has right? So it's gonna tenets s curve all your lights geometrically gonna stop. Yeah. And so. You know? I mean, arguably enough have been lost. Look, we're already there. There's this new coin coming into the miners are mining. But that's. That's just the nature of of how it's gonna work because if all this money's coming in. And there's only so many like if there's that many more asks than our bids than the price skyrockets for while. And then it just teeters off and goes back there. But the last broom last boom is not due to bitcoin last boom was due to ICS had. I've had you had to get into becoming. Effects that's becoming less and less and less of the only point bitcoin is no longer like the channel which you have to go through things. And I think freakishly a lot of people were parking their money in bitcoin because it happened to be the most stable. And so that became the reference in which you is I waited how will everything was doing was basically how much bitcoin admit, and then how much bitcoin wasn't dollars. So that's all people kinda kept mental models of how successful they were doing. And that's also no longer the case when you have stable coins and not not just one, but multiple fable coins. That referenced the dollars oppose bitcoin. So you remove yourself from vet volatility as well. So the markets aren't cyclical anymore. Now, if there's another bull run it needs to be for different reasons than the last bull run out of how maybe navy like security tokens make argument, we don't even know how security tokens are going to propagate boot. But the stable coin argument is a great argument. Right because you used to park your money in bitcoin to get access to the all coins. Now, you park your money in stable coins to get access to everything including bitcoin. So it has kind of taken the whole market by the balls the statement point thing, but I don't like, that's we're trading pairs are going to be. Yeah. That's that's what traders need traders are like oh park about money there, and oh a regulated shames like Jim ni- too. So I can park my money. They're perfect. I'll just park it in his Jimmy token or this to USD or this US DC or whatever it is instead of parking in to bitcoin. So that does that isn't new dynamic. And that just started. So we won't even know how that plays out for some years. I the next bull market is going to happen. There's going to be another boron. I don't think it's going to be as crazily height and over over sensationalized as the previous ones, and it's also as we keep building more and more utility. There's not gonna be this crazy. So crazy district between the utility value and the speculative value. There's going to be a reason for speculation because people are actually using I hope people actually using these things. Last time. I would say there was no use. It was all speculation on what everyone was promising. It's going to be happening in the next two years, which really didn't happen last year. I mean, it took us forever. Just to get bitcoin. Segue than lightning start happening. And is only just now started taking off. We've been talking about that started this podcast. Yeah. We've been talking about lighting since like twenty fifteen and I never never drank the koolade from that. Because we had a lot of lightning developers on and. Rigging wants Kool-Aid. Yeah. I do is. They were just there to drink. Crystal light, don't lie too smart. And you need some you need who smart. What that even means? They don't know how like push products out because they're gonna keep delaying it until they get it. Right. And you gotta hike in a product. Is it a product we call lightning product. I don't think so because they don't make direct profit from the protocol itself. I think I interrupted you cello. Go on. I mean, I was thinking about that too. You said it, but you need other people on a team. You can't just have a company with ten engineers on. It is just then nothing's going to get released. Nothing's gonna get implemented. It's just going to be a pissing contest in their conference room every day trying to make it better and better and better. I say, you're absolutely right. But I also say you're not taking into consideration the nuance between open source and close source, maybe and this is open source. I know company there's companies working with the open source protocol. But there's no there's no lightning network company. Even though I think lightning labs by new companies. But the ideas that you make something that becomes so useful opens a whole brand new John Ray of things you can profit from like, it is I I'm gonna make this thing. And it becomes show incredibly useful that it makes so many business opportunities that could make money off of those things, obviously. But it has to be, but you don't. Get those business opportunities unless you build that base layer in. Doing in order for this to achieve voter for bitcoin to get where it needs to be this has to happen. All right. Well shit at a necessity. Let's build that. And then they build that people using it it grows, and you see all of these associated business opportunities with it where you can make money. And I think that's what the that's the long game. They're trying to play. That's the same thing that happened open. Bizarre. It's like we have to build this protocol to to have like a decentralized marketplace and Nora for us to like in a in a in a world where a good decentralized useful. Marketplace exists all of these services are going to have to exist as well. To cater to these people who are using it. We're going to build those once we build the marketplace and make money lots of money. Has no main knowledge to take advantage of that type of stuff because they built the thing. I like to see costs nodes get inside of routers. And it just be like a software option when you I when you're doing you're plugging around that could be the name, I could be the entry point. But it's a generalized technology. Eventually, it will be like routers, going to include some type of note look at like the handshake, right? So the way handshake is positioning itself is becoming your DNS name server of your home. And it'll probably be on routers, said that resolves all queries that you make when you type in you know. Podcast dot com. Or or the bitcoin podcasts podcast or whatever. We end up fighting. It goes through the handshake node as opposed to your router. It results that appropriately serves it back to you know, that that's that's blockchain infrastructure being pushed into the things that we use every day. I think lightning nodes things like that. Once they become a little more just purely software. Not hardware. Routers hardware. Yeah. But you're talking about handshakes. That's where it would like, my my router. My house is a is a is in server wreck a lot of sort of rat. It's a blade in my server wreck. That's that's my routers, that like a little box. You get from p you made from scratch though, like you're like a Baker but for internet, but it's the exact same thing. It's just people. You're getting it from your ISP or just votes software on it yourself. It does the same thing. Anyway. Hey, wait. Welcome to the show say Hello. Yeah. We can hear you. Support for fire foxes experimental at kept telling me, so I switched to curl. Yeah. I'm using a fire FOX, it's working. I know. Right. No, no photos thing. I've never seen that before. Amusing laptop with an integrated camera, and it's shut and I don't have another camera on. How it works, and I don't have a profile little this account. Need? Well, what what we see the talking points. We've been going through. We hit on layer two solutions. We didn't really talk about consequence. Whereas wherever I was talking about how dumb lightning work is. Let's talk about it. Yep. Just like that. He was he's a lighting network is doom. Let's let's if not any harder for me to transfer bitcoin from a wallet or by all on an exchange and transfer back to another wallet the news to open lightning payment channel. Now. It was a lot harder few months ago. Do we had a rose Yvonne like episode forty? I just you guys have like the interests of a monk like nothing break del spirit. Just we're okay with waiting a long time. You want shitting out? Now, I think Andrea had talked about this as well. And he said look was dialup modems you did so much. And then when you got is, Dan he did so much, and then when you got frame related so much when you got TY needed so much and now we've got gig to the home in some places that took a long time. This Aleutian is taking a lot a lot less time. But people are so used to the advancement that they're they get extremely disenchanted very quick. Episode eighty three by the way, let's lightning number that was a while ago says two years ago, we might have been the first people to actually report on that we wears Machias friends with roast beef. And so he's I can't let's get them on because they just came out with the idea lightning. Yep. That's how that went down. Then we have was wasn't being node associated with that. Yeah. He's talking about beat be echoing he coin coins coins. Dacian J may that's still that's actually point is the base forked be coin to make handshake. JJ is Bridget is one of the. Genesis folk of handshake because he knows how everything works get the topics now, and I do say that layer to his on there. Did you guys talk about the issue? I have with layer to lightning is. The you're you're treating and you're sacrificing one of the big pieces, which is traceability and audibility and stuff like that. But obviously everything has made a trade offs. So I guess if that's the one thing you need to trade off in order to get the scale than maybe that's it. But you're talking about the whole. You know, you you don't get that audit ability, and you just sign off because who cares about the Cup of coffee argument now. Well, we talked about it for we didn't talk about in this show. I literally talked about the trade off you make using layer to solutions. And how like you lose that transparency? Solution. Oh, he did. I think that's the only way. That's why that's been presented is you lose. You lose that audibility. And I'm sure there's a better blockchain term for that. But for the layman one of the great things about pretty much all open Blockchain's is that you've got that full. Transaction reckon forever. And the downside is that well where you gonna put all that stuff? So not necessarily at your lose it in a completely public scenario. Yes, you have your and all about it. A part of that party still maintained full audibility and of everything that happens. Point. Because I don't think a lot of you realize. I know I didn't wanna I came out. My gut reaction was this is great. But and then the, but was okay. This is the start of a whole bunch of Domino's of how we're gonna lose. What becomes all about mardi departy on the lighting network? They'll still be able to say, hey, I sent you these lighting transactions in that person. The other person say, oh, yeah, I see that you sent it to me. Everyone has to have four copies of all the all the interactions. They have with the parties involved, and that's and that's more akin to how you interact with people in the real world. Like the whole world is not gonna come to consensus on my coffee purchase. We should do like wire that that yesterday. I bought some crispy cheese outside of a shop heirs when she's oh change my life, bro. So I was like, man. I haven't eaten sigma first flight about the help on this plane, I'm hungry, but I don't want like a bag of chips. I want something that's like protein good good protein. Good fats, and they make like crispy cheese bars is just cheese. And it's delicious. I don't think anything that you learned. The worry about what you post. I would say paste linked to it. But oh, yeah. You're concerned about those things. So, you know, don't I don't. Has crunchy cheese say what? So what gory crunchy cheese has protein in Jesus protein? And fat those calcium. I don't think that's true. Well, I'm going to Google it. So we could find out, but y'all keep talking. I'm sure it has protruding. It are we dug on lighting network. I have I have one more thing to ask because as grams of protein in one slice baby. Well, we don't know that the thirteen there is the cheese. But. Could be the special ingredient the on the lightning that were. I'm guessing since Corey is probably credibly well-versed on this. And you might know. So I I know it has to do with the summer as Asian, and you basically post the summary to the public blockchain, and I would say that you know, for people to know how to do this. If you want the audibility, you just do your on transaction and pay the fee if you don't need it you use layer to solution. I am. So what would stop people? Who are using lightning from? Taking that transaction record. Posting it to a foul coin or. PF s type thing and then public publicly tying a hash of that location of the record into the bitcoin blockchain as part of the lightning. Our is there something like that in the works? Nothing. Like that on the worse that I'm aware of. Why would you want to do that? So that you can publicly go look at the transaction record. And if both parties of the lightning channel. Sign that that is the record. Then you can it's basically hyperlink in the blockchain to a record of where of the listing kind of a hash of what went on in the lightning that were. Blockchain is like a as a reference point to the business transactions happen off chain. Yeah. And make that an optional thing adults because I wouldn't take much for that. I just was wondering if someone had already thought of it better go do my patent work now. Yeah. If you wouldn't be surprised if he hangs up in the next five. Gotta go ahead and idea. I mean, I guess that would be perfect for like audit ability. Right. If somebody if there were a conflict, you say like way just PF s and look at that Ashish, and that has all of the transactions that took place on that show where you could just give them the record of the transactions that you have from state Chow because the has like those are those are all signed transactions. If you using lightning is using bitcoin, you're Seyran bitcoin transactions. They're just not getting posted to the blockchain. That's what bugs me much, right? Then if they're getting posted, and they're not being validated by six thousand nodes ten thousand nodes, then it's still there, and maybe it's still signed. But isn't their major weakness and fraud capability and things like that? You can't just trust it like you can Amine launching as action right now, we could see didn't you can probably do some friends on the group of transactions that happen going back and forth between the two people. Yeah. I think so. All right. So I'm done. I I was reading the I wanna know what you guys take on. This people were speculating when lightning reaches mass, adoption, let's say all exchanges in many big stores are running a note and everything's working good the lightning that were traffic is mostly micro transactions in people stood still do many transactions on chain. So I was reading this article or they said Willis estimate at least twenty times the current transaction amount. Remember where mass adopted now. So there's a lot more transactions in a lot more Houston as currently so lightning transactions will still eventually have to transact on the main chain. And like wait said it's fair to say that the transaction amounts will be at least what bitcoins doing right now. So they're saying that when we read mass, adoption, we're going to be crazy to think the fees will not get to least January levels during mass adoption. So when people close their channels, they're going to be subject to a hundred dollars fees. There's there's an aspect of. I need to still scale those you're out you're still going to need to make it more efficient. So you can fit more transactions base blockchain bitcoin blockchain for lightning in. So that you can keep the things associated with opening and closing channels until the good, and I think a good portion of the lighting network is that you're never closed channels. You don't ever have to channel say fees, but the fees will still be in the channels? And if you want to transact on the chain, you're going to be subject to like, really high fees. Maybe. The one thing that you guys aren't thinking about the caveat. Amass adoption is there's a caveat that comes with mass, adoption and ubiquity. And that is not thinking in dollars worth thinking in bitcoin. Really? I don't I don't think. So we can't we can't even imagine that. That's that was the whole world that we mythological built for us owes for when everybody I gets in the bitcoin is like, oh, everybody's in bitcoin. I'm gonna go to WalMart and get this whatever, I don't know. Great value Melton lightning for however, many bits or our me. That's I think that's a pipe dream. And that's not a reality that we're going to see if that is a pipe dream, then we don't get that mass dodging because nobody can resolve a one hundred dollar fee, but if the purchasing power is monumental. They could probably resolve a few Saito. She's well could do the same as time zones. Okay. So in the seventeen and eighteen hundreds in the nineteen hundreds there. Very very few people could even grasp the concept of different times talk to other people by time zone. There wasn't a UT. See it. You know, there was a GMT, but UT wasn't there. So we've had a lot of systens especially with the last five to ten years of systems that fixed the time for us. And then we just adopted as we go. So I can say UT minus five I can say certain things and more people now understand what that is. And I think that Dimitri you're talking about going to a single currency and the difficulty people are gonna have in doing in their head how they change the reserve corey's. I think saying well that single reserve is not very possible. But I think as we get along we'll have multiple currencies and people just have the tools and be easier in switching between them. Just like we or easier twitching. Timezones now. To that still the, but surely it becoming just a part of social culture to to know multiple denominations of things at the same time. Yeah. But as as Dmitri is kind of alluding to I'm. You know? News of the world the world bitcoin network or the one of the two channels. You know, every time they say, okay. One dollars worth this many Soto. She's right. So if you're kind of watching that enough, you really get to know this better, you know, fourteen thousand Saotome, she's twenty thousand situtions bitcoin keeps going down a dollar. Yeah. This word this Mesa coaches. And that sure does help me with my math, even though it's changing at some point get more stable, and they'll be small generation hatha generation or third of generation where that conversion won't be appro problematic. An Ivy kind of force myself to do that middle, man. I did it the few weeks ago on the show when I was like, oh, big max point. Oh, one percent of a bitcoin. And you're like what? And I was like, yeah. That's how much it is. You just. That gets more comfortable as more and more people start thinking like that. But more people don't start thinking like that unless we talk like that when you know who's really good at that. The countries who have had their currencies compulsory L every seven years. So only are as is a financial collapse away from people really needing to understand how money works free down. Fucker down. No kidding. I'm just shallow. The only counterpoint to that point that you just made is that at the purchasing power bitcoin is is astronomical the purchasing power bitcoin astronomical than that won't matter. That will matter it all people say like people by spas. Do not use bitcoin. Even if the price of bitcoin is really large in very very very small increments. That's kind of breaking it up. And so you're still going to be subject to that problem. I think that if it gets too high people will stop using it because you lose the lose the use cases associated with small micro transactions. If the prices too, high do no longer use that technology and the price will come down. It will be an equilibrium associated with it until you can scale the base layer. That's a problem. That's a good problem to have because it tells you exactly ridi to be spending your develop development time to fix the problem. And that's the idea of that gracefully. Scaling concept of injury talks about so much is like when we first had the internet. It couldn't do video chats because the infrastructure didn't work. Well, and so every single time you had any type of innovation in the internet use cases, immediately filled that new bandwidth. With new use cases. And then you're stuck. You're you couldn't do these other things. Like now, I can get on AOL and send emails really easily. But I can't do audio streaming or something like that. And then we, you know at an innovation of the internet. You can do shipping. So cool audio streaming, but I can't do video streaming because the ban with their so slowly. But surely you gracefully fail in something. But each time you do that would able new use cases that couldn't be there beforehand. That's you're gonna see what the same thing. But with money. My old thing was with don't math adoption. Can you imagine the price every time like a giant retailer closes channels, and then cashes out like Mott's would be set up to watch these big channels and to sell bitcoin when Amazon closes channel than they prepare to cash out. So how can it ever get to a point that Amazon cash out ten million dollar channel? They had. It's still get ten million dollars guaranteed. You honestly think bitcoins. Gonna flat-line at like an exact certain price on. I don't know that that's even a drop of one percent is gonna cost Amazon one hundred thousand dollars. It would be way too risky. Close at faster, right? Not because of the fees because of the complicated usage, and it'd be because of the volatility so by entering channel you move from globally liquid to locally liquid. When you lock up a bitcoin channel it destroys core. Benefit because of the self interest of all parties involved just like cars on highway each party adapts based on the threats and issues that are presented to them. And you bring up extremely valid point that, you know, why would someone have a large channel if the risk of them closing it. You know destroys the value of that channel. Right. That the point right? It's always gonna be way. Too risky. Absolutely. I wanna see I disagree with always. I think. View than absolute yet. It's like it's like a true falls because of the fees just because it's complicated. And you know, the volatility is always going to be there. My opinion. I just think it's going to be useful in sub use cases. Like, there's isn't just going to be one second layer solution that fix all the problems, and that's all we use. And the no one ever use is bitcoin again, it's gonna be used this particular secondary solution for these types of use cases and use other things in different use cases that are proprio that going to be like all bitcoin traffic goes to liking that work. That's not a second layer solutions for it. Network was built for the transactions knowing gives a shit about. And it's getting really good at being able to process. Those transactions exactly has said it. That's what it's for. And when it's longer useful for those things people won't use it changed fixed. It'll be adapted. It doesn't work though. Unless most people send receive an equivalent amount of money on it putting say the lightning their work has the problem. It doesn't work unless people are sending and receiving the same amount of money on it. I think that they haven't found a way to route transactions. Well, as your wallet would have to know the state of every channel and it needs to write a payment through. That's those are those are think short term innovations if short-term improvements that make Elena work work better. Like, you can you can send one payment across multiple channels of the same time haven't aggregate any other side, the routing issues that people often cite those fixed because the base layer is agnostic to how you wrote it. Those are just you know, stepwise improvements on how this stuff works. But the relying reason for it to exist is still always gonna be there in that micro payments are always going to be a thing. And no one needs to have full network consensus on those things you can just make better as to get people using it and find out where it doesn't work. Well, you make that part better. I'm not saying there's not potential. I just always think about scaling right now. It's not like you can't scale up globally as it works right now. But we can scale it to the point where it doesn't work. Very well. And then figure out why it's not working very, well and fix that. Still better than what it was before hand. It's like Venema right now. I guess. One of the other topics that I know that I don't know how long you guys are going. But it should be quick talking about adoption layer to obviously is something to address it option. You guys talked about the coin star press released today valley, didn't that's pretty cool. You didn't. That was a bingo. About it on bitcoin albertson's or whatever grocery store that's in your area. Coinstar, what your change in whereby bitcoin for do both. I don't know like the markups associated with these things. That's cool. That's going to be everywhere. Like, it's basically like bitcoin ATM everywhere was that work rewind it for people that don't know because Coinstar now. Yeah. We'll say what Coinstar coin star must people have seen them. It's a little kiosk inside of a lot of grocery stores where you put your spare change in and then it gives spits out a receipt. You take it to the. Customer service counter, and they take seven percent usually, and they give you cash, so you're converted in your spare change in cash while the what they announced as that they're going to allow people to bitcoin instead. So I don't know what the mechanics are. If it's the same bitcoin team, puts a cure code, and you get scanned or something like that instead of getting a receipt and take into the customer service counter for cash, you can just get the coin. And well, maybe they'll take paper money to what if you know, what if instead of just coins, you could actually insert money in a paper money, and it's only ops given away almost like odd lawnmower app. Yeah. This is bring change there. Thinking crypto, but he's going Starlight with. That's the that's the issue. Right. Bitcoin ATM's currently seven percent. That's not bad. But yet, especially if you have a hold we take a jar. And we fill it up throughout the year come home up at the jar in there. And usually after I don't know how many months, there's, you know, eighty to one hundred two hundred dollars in there because it's a quarter of nickels dimes cash then. Well, taking longer and longer to fill the jar. But. But I can see a huge exit from FIA because now people are going to try to find all their change. And they're gonna know I didn't I didn't really care about getting dollars before because. Oh, wait, I can get some bitcoin. And a lot of people think that's gonna go up. I think that's going to cause people to rush to the coin star more than they do now. Because I was like, oh, I can speculate on my extra change instead of just get some cash. Yet will feed the speculation network effect on my my family anymore. I'm gonna feed. It's it's a truly Christie's. So I wish I had these two things put side by side. But what I just look that was the average value of transaction per credit card company worldwide, and it goes union pay one hundred and sixty four dollars per American Express is one forty one. And then it's a pretty steep drop off visas eighty J C B, I don't even know what that is got to be overseas is eighty dollars per MasterCard seventy five dollars per and discover card as sixty seven dollars per transaction. Right. So really all you need for the lighting network to be able to do is process. You know, take that average in Tosseh multiple on it do some research on obese scientists in these the process transaction. Toss multiples on there and as as a be able to process transactions of that amount. Now, if you're so nobody cares. Nobody cares that I paid sixty bucks last week for call duty black ops for nobody gives a shit. So why would that need to be on the big point blockchain? It can go in a lightning transaction. That's the whole. That's why the lighting that was we had a problem with those transactions and we created solution. But I feel it so episode turned into lightning network episode. Whenever it's so keep talking about the coin start thing because I I want to correct something I just read on their site. Actual coin star that comes bitcoin. Only cash is accepted coins cannot be used for bitcoin transactions have to answer paper money. So what I'm guessing is you go there, you convert your coins to cash and that you pay seven percent fee there, then you can take the cash and put it in by Vic lines shit. Joins Nour's are big win ATM's now. Yes, that's basically what it saying it saying it's long. It's lunch now go to a kiosk touched by bitcoin accept the terms into your phone number. So there's some KYC issue type things going there insert the paper money up to twenty five hundred dollars impale downward CBA PayPal. It's powered by coin me. I don't know if you guys know coin me CON CO. I n m Aucoin me is JR Willits. He invented the ICO and his first one. Yeah. So his point me was like a line of ATM's, but it's all LLC. So it seems he's branching out. It seems though he's done some works. Did that? Meeting your mustaches. It seems as though he's I always want twirler. I remember we interviewed him, and I always liked him. As a person, even though he has permanent stain on his record, creating something that everyone took advantage of you know, I don't think that's stain on his record, misery. I think people using a tool to for for for their own betterment. Or like, it's just that's what happens when you you lower the barrier venture to things and they tool that allows me to do shit. They couldn't do before. Shysters involve. What if I told you I was the creator of MLM's you'd punch me in the face imagined, bitcoin that's used for various purposes, and so should suppo- say feel ashamed about that. I would I would punched in the face. The founder of silk road. Is there is there? It was silk road ever in Trenton. Yeah. You know, that's what I would make the Cridland too. I see your point. So coin stars trying to get in the crypto game taken that seven percent crypto. How many prevention shirt? People with big cans of coins are going to be when there's a line of the Coinstar people trying to buy bitcoin stuff doesn't take. I don't know granted every each of those transactions is not going to be short like it might even be like the people who are buying bitcoin are going to are going to be fast compared to the people trying to throw their fucking change. These cornstarch machines twenty five hundred dollars worth it was twenty five hundred dollars worth of dimes. Now, just said you can't you can't. Can't use coins by bitcoin. So there's gonna be types of people using these things and they're not going to like each other. But I mean, the step one is all the same because you have to get that receipt. Either way you doing coins? Yeah. Yeah. So site looks like gone up to eleven point nine percent, going processing. It was seven percent. Even that flexes increasing prices show. I don't know when to you've been to my old family home, but we had a five gallon jug, Fulla coins. Oh, my isn't. That has been. Yeah. It's been there fireplace ninety three and it's still only like Asia orders. A family vacation are there. All coins to we don't discriminate pennies dimes every quarters. They all go in there. I think a couple of seconds or we is in there. I was younger. The end game with that that'll take there is one came up with that far. You can't even pick it up. You've got to use a Dolly to move it around. But it's just sitting. I don't know why my boss was like we're gonna coins five gallon jug. And we like, all right, whatever. So. But it's still there. So that's a good way around the episode. We'll one last thing one last thing. I wanted to say first Corey how cool was it watching you seeing a light coined logo on the mat? Awesome. Yeah. So the next step, and I'm not talking about, you know, Rory MacDonald in a second class fighting organization, the USC taking taking all coin that's not on a major exchange. I'm talking about US, the one of the three majors light coin is sponsoring Ben aspirin that you'll see two thirty five. He's far Aflac. He's fighting Gad here. He's fighting Robbie Lawler, the greatest welterweight in my opinion. That's major news. It's it's cool. That's happening. It's weird that it's like going on. I wanna I wanna know like where that meeting came from like what what like guy with a shitload of light light coin. Those fires. Hey. Just sir going see. That's that's great. I like I have a bunch of light coin. I like USC I'm gonna pay for. And that's basically what happen that had to happen. It could have its first bite with organization too. So like, he's not even taking money deal on his first fight. He's thinking crypto we all know that like see fighters don't get paid. They should. Absolutely. Thank you. Get paid what they show like the sponsorships will if it's not the Reebok sponsorship. They get paid ship other than other than kind of Gregor. That's you. Right. Yeah. I get I get multimillion dollars. I'm trying to Google how much like when he's giving. I don't know if I could find that throw as we wrap in shallow Google's. It's the part of every podcast are specifically where we pulled the shit that we do. And the first thing we'd like you guys. Do is right buyer book called can you describe bitcoin Assyria, Mer blocks rain into got in my hand right here to. Amazon time same describe bitcoin in its us this way to get there because we don't have a buy button on the website yet. When we're not gonna put one we're actually gonna put a riddle, and if you can solve then you can buy the book because we make it very difficult for you to give us money. Members. I have my book here to how is going to pick a page. Oh, there's no page numbers on whose numbers, but it is oversight was that one. Needs. Why was it need? I'm with my showman. This can't we want. You want to what I was like, hey, hey, Wayne read page seventy seven he'll be like. Oh, okay. I know how to get there. Get outta here. Captain, Dewey decimal system. We just wanted to be an experience for you. Don't treat our guests as numbers. Yes. Numeric strings. Yes. It's like an atlas numbers as a save. So. We talked about roast beef. Let's we asked him August twenty eighth two thousand sixteen to describe bitcoin. He said bitcoin is powering technology that can allow people full sovereignty of their financial situation. Little dry but accurate. Yep. And then some pages. Page Ola Liuhua awesome token. And you flew some pages to Christopher Wilmer who is. Why is he posed so hard in front of his whiteboard with this nonsense? Do you see that? That's like the holy. You don't have page numbers. There's a professor Rory MacDonald MMA fighter. Korea's last year. Almer is got Andrea and Christopher Woolmer. He says Cain distract bitcoin, the world's first digital discentralising currency. So there's we've there's a lot of people in here. We've interviewed over the years, and they all try and distill down their very own personal definitions, right turtleneck, but NOP and suit jacket. The is that everything on that whiteboard. Dollar Lee whose or that makes sense. Let me take a look now I can tell you what that is. That's about four different mentor sessions with a with a graduate student or undergraduate raced over both times it looks like a phone number down. When is this is a phone number? That is a phone number. Call. The black shirt in the middle is bitcoin. You can see right where we are now. Yep. Let's see where we are. Let's see it a see some constants on there. He looks like e is approximately two point set regatta point. We got Spokane. Okay. They coin podcast com. That's that's what we do. No, not yet. I'm gonna give you a chance Wayne. But not yet. The big one podcast network is our network of shows the content is booming. And it's going all the time long blockchain podcasts dose of ether the bullpen. I got banger hashing it out coming for your if you care about anything cerium, and what was going on with the Constantinople bug, and what type of implications that has on how we move forward and a real litmus tests on where we are now listened to that episode. It's probably already out by the time the stairs. Yep. Would you say that the audio content of hashing it out could be on par with a collegiate lecture? The. Yeah. Sure. That's that's fun. I've been to a lot of your show beats the shit at epicenter. Hey, actually like granted. Chuck Mangione at the right time. All right. I'm picking up with a whole a whole album of Chuck Mangione during the up so. Yep. That was you in YouTube gonna flag us, but I'm more. I so what else the medium dot com slash bitcoin podcast blog. You'll find musings by us. We are medium. Also, there's a newsletter there. What else do we do? We don't interview people. That's what we don't do. Yeah. We haven't had any of Yuna Batta month. Don't know why. I don't want people to think that because Ronnie MO ask ourselves out were shying away from interviews. It wasn't that. On. Slack yet. You need it right up on the Ryan Moaz thing. I did a write up on that. Because it's been bugging me a little bit. And so I haven't posted it because it might serve some Hornets. Can you post it internally in the slack for all of our listeners? That's what I at posted internally relation person to you guys. And then you can get. Shoot. I guess that's there's gonna be a donate button. But was there and then wasn't there? Nobody there again if you'd like to donate. Currently it's cerium I'm working on the rest of all the other things trying to get fun to use. But if you'd like to donate to us, there's a donate button at the website advocation bar that says Joe Nate, and it'll send you to a place in which you can give us free money, and then put yourself on a leader board and compare yourself to other people who have given us money, and we like that. So do that. And as it stands first place winner gets a thank you. But. Also, your free money. We give you free content. You're giving us money for the free content. So so does it still. Money for it. We're doing them the favor. They're not doing us a favor. Right. Got here. All right. You ready way? My ten words are trust Louis balancing of greed with incentives using math and decentralisation. Redid ask you. Think we ever four? We asked you before. Yes. And it's not in the book. So I had to take my chance to say it now guy you're in volume two volume two. Right now. Zoe saldana.

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LTB! #345: Bitcoin Miners, US Energy Producers and Moores Law

Let's Talk Bitcoin!

30:45 min | 5 months ago

LTB! #345: Bitcoin Miners, US Energy Producers and Moores Law

"You can actually beam the data to the minor and back from the minor and burn the electricity locally in order to produce bitcoin so that solves the problem because of the differences between distribution of data distribution of Power Ellen. Welcome this is episode. Four hundred and thirty five. Let's Talk Bitcoin on today's show. We'll discuss what looks like a new growing trend of bitcoin mining coming back to the US but in a new form as large companies looked to bitcoin mining as a way to potentially go green. It's an era of reversal of ever. I've seen one and we'll get into that first. This episode of Let's Talk. Bitcoin is sponsored by e Toro Dot Com. Let's talk. Bitcoin is owned by the hosts and his editorially independent. But you can find new episodes every Sunday on the coin. Podcast network AUCOIN DOT COM L. Network. Had let's talk. Bitcoin DOT COM and on are privately managed show only subscriber feed at L. TB show dot com with all. That said I'd like to welcome you to this episode. Four hundred thirty five of. Let's Talk Bitcoin. My name is Adam be Levin and joining our discussion today or the host of the show. Stephanie Murphy Hi Jonathan Mohan an Andreas 'em aunts and nobelists greetings listeners on behalf of the host. We'd like to thank you. The listener for sitting in today's session so mining it's arguably the critical activity in the world of bitcoin processing transactions ensuring the rules of the protocol and keeping the network geographically distributed. Which makes it? Frankly a lot safer and more resilient against any sort of shock that may emerge in this changing crazy world something between sixty and seventy percent of mining activity that happens in Bitcoin. Epoch happens within China. And there's a bunch of reasons why that's true and it's always been this problematic thing. There's definitely a lot of geographic diversity within China certainly and within the different operations that are in there so you can't really say well well. China has some sort of centralisation of mining but the reality is that they provide a huge proportion of that power and China is in authority -Tarian stain and so there are some implications that kind of go along with that which have never really been great. But they've always kind of been the reality at least for the last number of years in the US because electricity is so expensive. In the vast majority of places mining has been almost a hobbyist activity. There have been some incidental sort of operations and even some larger operations that take advantage of excesses of electricity. But they're always doing it effectively as a third party effectively coming in and then working with hydroelectric plant in order to take their excess energy or something like that what. We're starting to see what these two stories are about. Today is a move where instead of using third party. Companies that are mining company specifically instead energy companies are starting to view mining as a way to either make more money or to effectively lower their regulatory burden. In some circumstances the first example of this comes to us from New York. This was an article out of Coin Desk. I think a month or two ago at this point we were playing talking about it but it's gotten pushed a few times. It's this company called Greenwich Generation. It's a natural gas power plant located near the town of Dresden in the Finger Lakes region and basically. They announced a couple of months ago that they had installed a large mining farm within their facility as part of effectively remodel and sort of rebuild out of the facility so this is a natural gas plant where they harvest natural gas and then they burn natural gas to generate electricity and then they sell that electricity into the grid and so what had been happening as they had been only actually generating electricity during peak hours because it was inefficient to do it at other hours but it was inefficient to do it during kind of off peak times because they couldn't sell it for a price that would make it make sense right exactly because they were feeding electricity into the system but when you look at systems stepping back from this particular example balancing the amount of power in the electrical grid is actually really challenging because when you generate electricity. It's not like you can just kind of keep it hanging around right. There are batteries and there are ways that you can store that electricity. But they're pretty darned inefficient and they lose charge pretty quick and so what happens a lot of times is you have these plants. Just shut down. And there's a cost to starting up the plant and shutting down the plant and kind of all the changes that come along with that it's called load balancing and typically what they'll do is they'll run the hydroelectric generation overnight but instead of sending that out to the grid where it frankly isn't really needed at that time. They'll use the power to pump water into high storage ponds effectively. It's a way of storing energy right. They're using energy that they're generating anyways. Because these things generate power by water running downhill through the turbines. They're able to use that `electricity that isn't particularly valuable to the system. As a way to store energy for the future so in the case of something like a natural gas plant. It doesn't really work that way. You can't pump the natural gas up to a high thing because what you're doing is you're burning it so effectively. What they did here is they said all right. We're GONNA take the electricity. We're not gonNA shut down the plant anymore. It's GonNa run twenty four hours a day and instead of having that start and stop cost. We're going to run a farm of effectively seven thousand mining rigs which at the time a couple months ago generating five point five bitcoins per day. So it's not a small amount of money. Do you know why can't store the natural gas itself overnight. Too Expensive order to store natural gas. You need to compress and compressing. It requires both storage facilities with thick walls or giant giant tanks. You've probably seen these tanks in the wild. They looked like giants cylinders and they're usually surrounded by empty space but these tanks have to be fairly thick walled from what I understand in order to store natural gas because you compress it and turn it into a liquid right and compressing. It takes energy and storing. It's in the precautions. You need to take was obviously so. It's much more complicated than for example pumping water uphill or storing. It's in another form and of course. Bitcoin is a way of storing fungible energy and an indirect way. That makes sense. The other thing I was thinking about is didn't Need York band. Bitcoin mining by electric companies a few years ago. Feel like I heard something about that. The city of Plattsburgh in northern New York Band or pass an ordinance. I think against the local energy company doing that because I think the demand from the local mining company was driving up prices or something like that. I'm not exactly sure right minors when they do these things they look for places that have sort of imbalances right. They look for places where electricity is cheap but too cheap is a relative term. Right when you're talking is a minor you're thinking about what is cheap relative to the rest of the country or what is cheap relative to the rest of the world but for the local market that price that was perceived as low by. Everybody else might have been a really desirable thing so you can see how there could be some tension between sort of a local population and miners. Who Come to take advantage of those low energy prices just by necessarily pushing them up to market level. Yeah and one of the things that this conversation needs is a context. I did a segment recently on this. Which is the fact that the current price of oil changes everything in terms of bitcoin mining as well as in terms of China's dominance the largest producer of oil in the world. Today is the United States at about twelve thousand barrels per day and this price collapse is really affecting the fracking. Companies that generate this Kalat of oil now storage of oil is obviously difficult refineries already full and there's a collapse in demand and that's driving prices down not just for crude unprocessed oil but that is then cascading all through the production pipeline and affecting prices at the end point of the consumer point for example in many states. Now gasoline prices at the gas station are below a dollar a gallon which is sixty Unicorns per square foot town centimeter. Not Quite sure how to do the metric but yeah cheap unfairly cheap in fact to even standards that's cheap and the US is probably only second to Venezuelan Russia in terms of cheap gasoline for consumers. If you adjust for inflation it may actually be the cheapest oil I've seen in my life at the gas pump. Yeah that's a very very good point. I remember dollar a gallon oil back in the late. Ninety S. A dollar in the nineties is like three dollars today. Four thirty depending on which numbers you look at so this has some very important implications and Adam you were talking about bitcoin mining firms that have popped up and most of those of pop top around. Texas. I believe yes. And so. That's directly related to the oil fracking industry. This isn't solar renewable or whatever it's dirty oil but in some cases thirty thirty or otherwise since the case with flaring and in other cases it's again an imbalance in demand that's being addressed right now. Probably the single largest inputs consideration for profitability of minors is the cost of electricity. The cost of electricity is directly related to the cost of the underlying mechanism by which they electricity is produced. Which in the case of a lot of the energy. We're talking about in the. Us is all and it's competing directly in China with coal now. There are some studies that have shown that renewable energy which is even cheaper is beginning to dominates bitcoin mining but nevertheless this is going to displace even dirtier coal. That's being used in China with slightly less dirty oil used in the US. But what it is GonNa do most certainly is going to change the geographic concentration of hash rate because the competition is no longer on the acquisition of a six. Let me this until twenty sixteen because of the very very rapid increase in density of the a six chipsets if you produced an ACC mining rig in silicon fabrication plant toward the chips for basic mining rate a single fiber -cation plant which obviously is concentrated in China Z. Lifetime for that mining rig during which was profitable was measured in months not years six months and some cases as low as three months. And that means that you have a very narrow window to export that mining rig before it becomes unprofitable because the next generation that is double the density of chips comes out and therefore doubly efficiency and puts you out of profitability so that was happening until two thousand sixteen in two thousand sixteen the most advanced of these chips reached about the level of consumer CPU and then shortly thereafter consumer GPU levels of chip density St Manufacturing at which point the whole development of that space slowdown to Moore's law and the life cycle of mining rigs expanded dramatically to reach and in some cases exceed two years. Meaning that you buy mining rig and it's still profitable for two years after you bought it. Which means you can now ship it overseas. Take your time installing it and therefore you don't have to be within a hundred miles of the silken fabrication plant in order to make any use of that mining. Rake that shifted the attention to who can get the cheapest energy whereas before it was who could get the profitable chips and that undermines the dominance of China. How important do you think that was to sort of establishing the reality that we see today where China really is providing the majority of the mining power it was probably half that and half the cost of energy because the cost of energy depends one on the source of energy and two on the willingness of the government to include externalize concepts such as environmental costs in the price of energy through taxation or environmental subsidies? And things like that. So if your government is willing to allow a coal power plan to operate while externalizing all of the environmental impact on society without including. It's in the cost of the power then. Obviously it's much cheaper to operate a coal power plant because everybody pays through decreased health and living conditions if your government is less willing to do that and regulates the environmental impact than the cost of coal is much higher so in China both x happening. You had immediate access to silicon fabrication and the virtual pipeline to get that rack mounted and operational in a warehouse or broken. Down Barn near somewhere where you can get ridiculously cheap power. So both of those factors drove Chinese dominance. Clearly any other country can compete when both of those factors are extremely strong while now if both of those factors have now changed a six or now exportable and profitable for longer. Periods of time and energy from oil is now competitive. This episode of Let's Talk. Bitcoin is sponsored by Toro Toro. One of the largest trading platforms in the world with over a trillion dollars in trading volume on the platform per year. Us customers can trade the most popular crypto assets with transparent fees. And if you're not ready to trade yet practice building your portfolio with the tar virtual trading feature festival you can connect with twelve million other tour traders around the world to discuss trading charts and all things crypto create an account today at e. Touro DOT COM. That's E. T. O. R. O. DOT COM ultra crypto portfolio. The Smart Way. E Toro is crypto trading. Made Easy One more time. That's E. T. O. R. O. DOT COM so Marty Bent. Who Does the podcast tales from the crypt teased in a newsletter to? He's kind of benefactor. And the CRYPTO space for a number of years at this point as a side project has been involved with this company. Great American Mining Basically. What they do is they work with energy producers or energy producers to convert the energy that they have and are looking for something else to do with into bitcoin mining. And they're not the only ones to do this but they're just kind of indicative example. They fill up a container with mining rigs and they basically wire the whole thing and they deliver it on site typically to oilfields or one example. Which is what I particularly want to talk about. And here is water treatment plant and water treatment plant. I think it's North Dakota creates natural gas as a byproduct of the water purification process. And so the problem is is that once you've created the natural gas it's not legal in the United States. At least just release it in there because it's a pollutant for a bunch of reasons and it's not just a pollutant but more importantly the regulation changed in the last decades because natural gas is a much more potent greenhouse. Gas Right May rain is pronounced it the British me. Look at you either way. Methane is a very potent greenhouse gas way more than co two everybody thinks co two is the biggest greenhouse gas. But it's actually methane. And that's one of the reasons why some people focus on cows because they also emit a lot of methane out of their rear ends I think it's a factor of four so four times more global warming inducing than co two and methane comes from either industrial process where you have maintain trapped inside caves fissures cetera particularly in relation to the fracking industry. It comes from water treatment plants where you have biological matter. That's the king and it comes from other biological processes of digestion either inside the stomach cow or also in landfills which if you've ever seen a landfill you'll notice that they have various sensors and pipes and what looks like smoke. Stacks on what those are. Our mechanisms to capture and control the release of methane that is a byproduct of the decay of organic material right. So we've got these water treatment plants and they have effectively natural gas being created as a byproduct and they can't just release it and they're also not a really good position to really do much of anything with it so the choices that they typically have our one you can build a pipeline and then you can pipe it someplace and then you can hopefully sell it to somebody there. But the downside about building a pipeline. Is THAT FIRST OFF? It's very expensive. And very environmentally potentially taxing in order to build a pipeline and secondly arguably more importantly when you build a pipeline. You're effectively creating a monopoly relationship with wherever that pipeline ends. Because it's not like you're GONNA be like well. I don't like this price so I'm going to build another pipeline going someplace else to give myself more options. The other option that they have is to flare it and flaring means basically is that they burn it like a kerosene lantern type thing. You'll see these large stocks and then at the top there will be aflame coming out and one of the reasons why they do. This oilfields is because if you have overproduction of this type of energy once you get an oil well going you can't turn it off if you turn it off there's a very large startup cost and it's frankly challenging and difficult in a variety of other things built around that so the option has been kind of that either you burn it and that's slightly better than just releasing it but it's still isn't really better and so states have taken kind of a harsh regulatory approach to that and frankly don't want to do that or you build a pipeline and you send it someplace and then you're basically a whole other business outside of water treatment or you're grounded. Who which is for regulatory reasons. If you can't burn it off you just run a jenny and then grounded just throwing the ground right or you just literally waist the energy. So that's effectively. What mining is competing with the circumstances to explain flaring? Just a tiny bit further. You're still releasing a global warming gas the differences by burning methane you're converting a primarily into carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide and various other things depending on how efficiently burning it rather than releasing directly as methane and carbon dioxide can be recaptured from the air by plants doing photosynthesis however methane cannot while. Yes very good point. So you've probably seen this. If you drive past New Jersey refineries for example you'll see a series of these flames and they're pretty big flames so I you know three or four foot tall flames at the tops of the snacks. They look very pretty at night or horrifying depending on your environmental ben yet but they don't smell very pretty. There's area of New Jersey that is Affectionately nicknamed Stink New Jersey because it smells really bad. I really like the fact that the garden state is the entire part of New Jersey. That isn't facing New York and the part of the state was parked right next to the coast of New York. So this is sort of the environment that mining is operating right now. It's not that there are good options for things to do with this. That there are only really bad options. For what you can do with these types of products and so two. Jonathan's point about using it to generate electricity and then literally just wasting it. That is still preferable in some circumstances to doing any of these other things just because it's easier and a little bit less polluting than the alternatives. You guys have been familiar with the attempts to create like currency based decentralized marketplaces for electricity. Right with the Theorem Do you think that that would solve the problem of how to electric and price it correctly? If that were more widely adopted you think that we would see less. Waste taking place not really the primary problem. There is a problem of distribution network so distributing `electricity involves very very very high losses per kilometer. Distance traveled in order to distribute `electricity. You have to up voltage it to very high voltages in order to reduce the losses and bill these enormous pylons etcetera etcetera which require maintenance. All of this is extremely expensive and most of this. Oil production happens very very far from population centers where the demand is so. The problem is that you're producing electricity in a place where it's not needed and getting it to a place where it's needed is near impossible. Now compare that the best solution of course would be if you could simply beam electricity like a microwave. But you can't but what you can do is be Internet. And so the actual cost of providing data connectivity services for our bitcoin minor that is using electricity locally but spending on receiving transactions and sending blocks over cellular network for example or microwave data network. You can actually beam the data to the minor and back from the minor and burn the electricity locally in order to produce bitcoin so that solves the problem because of the differences between distribution of data distribution of power. Yeah Marty's quote is that if designed correctly containers filled with bitcoin miners have far superior up time and are up to five times more profitable on average than sending the gas to a pipeline to sell it so just in general. It's a question of what's the best available us and just because of kind of the attributes are on bitcoin mining so long as you can connect to the bitcoin network then mining bitcoin at Lisa Price. Prices like we see today is really much more efficient than many of the other alternatives. The world kind of changed in the past two months but last year. I did look in to Co locating with flare ups a little bit commercially and it logistically becomes a really massive hassle and when you put in the effort for what you're out and the human labor costs it ends up being almost equivalent to Kinda not worth the effort which is Kinda. Why no one's done it. One of the problems with these flare. Offs is when you're mining natural gas. You're not staying stationary. It's not like you're building this massive facility and you're there for twenty years you're moving and so as they're going for these different pockets where they're burn are occurring may change and so if you're setting up your mining rig your mining great needs to be able to be moved regularly and the data connection needs to be good and all these other things need to come into play and you need to coordinate with the facility and then before you know it you need logistically figure out how to move a large amount of weight without destroying the stuff inside of it regularly while maintaining your uplink and maintaining all the cables and this that and not getting in the way of the electrical actual people doing their job and when you factor in all of that. The numbers ended up making the hassle almost the equivalent of just finding something slightly more expensive. And that's why at least before this craziness with no one on earth using oil. You didn't really see co located flare facilities occurring even though the Arb- is very present for everyone to see what if money could be created without an authority our corporate coins. The first step towards techno neo feudalism is the real dark Matt. Run by State Intelligence agencies. Bitcoin blockchain educator. Andreas into Nautilus. Answer these questions and more in his latest book. The Internet of money volume three now available on Amazon following the worldwide success volumes went into this third installment contains twelve of Andrey's his most inspiring and thought provoking talks available in paperback and on Kindle Unlimited ordered the Internet of money volume three on Amazon. Today right now. Most of the world has really taken the social distancing thing seriously and all of the habits that drive oil consumption and drive energy. Consumption have changed dramatically to the detriment for these oil producers. It seems very likely that we're going to see a bail out of the oil industry in the United States but if we weren't going to see bailouts of the oil industry in the United States the thing that comes to my mind is Ken. Bitcoin be a resiliency tactic. In the event that we see further shutdowns that result in something very similar to this right where suddenly everyone stops using oil the price crashes and basically at this point people are filling up and just storing them on the ocean. Hoping that this end soon enough but affectively the world is out of storage for oil right now. It seems like given the oil industry energy industry. In the United States is a strategically important industry. According to the government having these sort of bitcoin mining installations and having the ability to redirect the energy that you otherwise. Don't what to do with into these even if you're not running the most of the time you're just running them in the event of a crisis seems like actually. It's a tactic that could perform very well now in world of bailouts maybe that's not true. Maybe the incentive isn't bearing the same way that it would be. That wasn't the expectation but I'm curious for thoughts on that. Well I think it makes perfect sense. It's reasonable and it's something that should be done and the government will move on it in the way that they do which is with lightning speed in the next couple of years. If we're still in the situation that's probably what he'll do. I'd like to add one little tip that that's really fascinating. Given this racking industry developed so rapidly and is enormously over leveraged and at the first sign of crisis is collapsing at this point in time is the total market capitalization of all of the companies in that sector is seven hundred fifty billion dollars which means that the. Us governments could nationalize the entire industry for just a fraction of the stimulus package. Well we'll we'll over leveraged hundred millionaires should lose money. What do you think these are small businesses? If you WANNA talk about insanity look at the bailout that they gave the banks and stealth the unlimited money printing. Promise no no no no no the literal bailout. That no one. Even notices occurred when the stimulus checks or as I like to call them tax rebates got processed those were all processed through the banks. And then all of these commercial loans that got length out which were taxpayer-backed zero risk. All of the banks charge their traditional commercial fees on its billions. Yeah they made ten billion dollars off of risk free loans in a single week processing this stuff. Yeah well that was a ten billion dollar not even alone just a straight up grant to the banks for tax payer back money so we're talking about Insanity Goddamn like I wish. We just gave the oil company ten billion versus the bankers. At least it's doing something we don't even have to kill the cows so at least it'd be eaten like maybe we give them the money versus the bankers. That literally did nothing. So we're in straight up crazy town right now. We've been crazy town for a while at this point you know it's been said the cove in nineteen wasn't a Black Swan but the government response to it was. I think that's pretty apt. I think that there's a lot of change going on in the world today. Just by nature of the response the response to the response and the knock on effects that we don't even know about you. I would disagree with that. I do genuinely think this virus Black Swan however what I would say. Is that the government the Constitutional Republic that represents America is a two hundred year. Old Technology was invented in the seventeen. Hundreds it's great. As far as two hundred year old technologies goes. It's phenomenal but it's still a two hundred year old technology and so what we're basically dealing with is eighteenth century medicine and so what happened is we got a cold. And then we went to an eighteenth century doctor and while we have pneumonia he's bloodletting us and talking about how he needs to drill burrowed holes in the skull Keeler Femurs Humor's or whatever they called it humor's right that's a good analogy because if we survive it's like in spite of the cure or not because of like when Lincoln was shot and they just put a finger in his brain and searched for the bullet for that probably did a little bit more about a bullet. Well they did their best. Plus their heart was two hundred years ago. Also no gloves. They didn't know what they didn't know. But we know better but unfortunately we're still stuck with doctors from the eighteenth century. It's called a president and Congress and governors all right so back on the other thing about what's occurring right now which is really interesting from a mining perspective. Is We have these dropping in prices of trinity at the same time that their supply chains to ship and the ability to manufacture is being massively curtailed. So there are some fundamental assumptions that are core to bitcoin. Working in this capacity for this feedback loop of the price of Bitcoin and the difficulty adjustments is inherent to the way that bitcoin works. And it's weird to say how long something that can't continue will continue. But this thought that prices of electricity could collapse the majority of the price of manufacturing a bitcoin is like Trysofi and at the same time. The ability to create new miners will be virtually zero. And the ability to distribute it even once they start being manufactured will be near zero. We may be in this very weird situation where the cost basis of Bitcoin will be lowest relative to its price in. Its near history at the same time that there's no way for new entrance to purchase more difficulty to our that backup. It'll be very interesting to see what that does to the economics of Bitcoin and and how it survives that and again all based on this insane world where we have negative electricity. It's illegal to go outside. And that's a wrap for episode four hundred thirty five of. Let's Talk Bitcoin. Thanks very much for listening. This episode was sponsored. By Toro Dot Com edited by Jonas and featured music by Jared Rubens and Gertie beats today show featured Steffi Murphy Jonathan Mohan Andrei's 'em and apples and Adam be levine. You can email Adam at lt be show dot com with any questions or comments and with any luck. We'll be back next week for a look at a pair of contrasting state surveillance apparatus. We'll see then.

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LTB#400 - The Tools and the Work

Let's Talk Bitcoin!

50:56 min | 1 year ago

LTB#400 - The Tools and the Work

"June ninth twenty nineteen and this is up four hundred of, let's talk bitcoin. Hey, folks on episode four hundred or mixing things up a little bit. I got a full table, part one of our two part discussion with bitcoin developers, Sipa and Jonas later, I'm joined by Alex. Glad stint as we sit down with an Iranian bitcoin community member. For the first in our series of interviews focusing on what really matters about bitcoin. Has always you can let us know what you think by writing Adam. Let's talk bitcoin dot com. The show. Hey folks are Madame be Levin. And on today's episode start bitcoin. I'm here with Stephanie Murphy. Hello, Jonathan Mohan. Hey Andreas 'em. Antonoff Lous alot on this episode will be digging deeply into some of the most important changes coming soon to the bitcoin protocol, and the form of bibs or bitcoin improvement proposals focused on tapper tap script. Schnorr signatures. If you're a regular listener, this won't be the first time you've heard about most of these broad ideas. But today we hope to dig as such were very pleased to be joined for today's session by bitcoin, developers. Peter better known as Sipa high and Jonas, Nick. Hey, everyone gentlemen. Thank you very much for taking the time and joining us today. Good to be here. I want to echo that, thank you so much for being on the show with us. It's really great to talk about these proposed changes to bitcoin, and talk to someone who really knows what they're talking about because they're actually involved with making it happen. So we really appreciate your time. I just want to ask you both. I Peter and Jonas. How did you first hear about bitcoin? And then how did you become a bitcoin developer? And why are you interested in these specific proposals? Peter went to gopher. I yeah. Sure. I think I heard about bitcoin I in the end of twenty ten alone air sea channel about a Hessel programming language or people were talking about it, and then I started looking into its. Yeah, I noticed I had graphics card at the time in my computer that was capable of mining bitcoins. So that was fun. I initially, I just looked at that price was very low at the time was like twenty cents or so. And what was exciting to you about bitcoin at the time it was just as idea that you could have currency defined by the internet by nothing more than software. It was always a technology that attracted me, and then she'll for changing, how we think about money. And when did you first start developing forbid Quinn? I think it was early twenty eleven that I started looking at a code I think the may have been a time when. Slush pool was starting to and there were looking for some changes to code. So a thought I don't I have a low. Amid later on the bitcoin dog forum, which at the time was just on bitcoin dog. I think hell Finney boasted a challenge, which was ears, a it going to dress. It has five bitcoins on its, which was a couple dollars at the time and the private key. And he said, anyone who can take those goings with a private key can have them because at the time that, you know, I didn't know but at the time, bitcoin software that existed it didn't have any possibility for importing or exporting private keys. So those new things, so I started looking. Hey, how can I Hecht his zoo, the bitcoin software? It took me much longer than other people who are trying to do the same thing in Jaffa our them. But in the end I had this patched for importing private. He's into it going, so I tried to get that merge, because that seemed like inch. Interesting functionality. So I started talking to Gavin Andriessen at the time who had just taken over as maintaining of the projects, I think it Caffey air or so, before that batch was merged before that was done already been asked to contribute than start looking over other people's batches fascinating really like that story. And then so have you been actively developing for this entire time? And how did you get interested in tap root in tap, script and Schnorr signatures? Yeah, I have initially, I was just doing that in my free time. And then soon as I joined bloodstream in twenty fourteen I was able to do it. Fulltime sins time. I've worked on many things. I think that broods and the related things are continuation of the efforts around segregated witness which started a couple years ago, you're interested in gala -bility insecurity. Yes. Of course. So the primary advantages here is, is improving things we started to. It's thicker, gauge witness and particular, here improve essential for funds ability by making all transactions or at least the large subset of transactions look, more alike, making it's less clear to the public. What is actually going on? And same dime their skill ability improvements. They're minor for difficult. Transactions are most IMP. Tactful for more complex things like Mercedes or smart contracts. Okay. Great. So we're going to get into the technical details a little bit later but I also wanna shoot from. So thank you so much for that introduction, and your background so Jonas. How did you first hear about bitcoin, and what got you interested in becoming a bitcoin developer? I, I heard about bitcoin in Bernie twenty eleven. There was this thing to thirty US dollars and I was immediately interested in this idea of being able to use the money where no one can stop me and also being relatively private while doing that, actually, I'd listen to podcasts very regularly finish thirteen twenty fourteen and it was also the first time I heard about site Shane's block stream this looked it up. It was episode ninety nine. Edham. Brechin. That was really good influence at the time. Story. I remember that interview very interesting ideas in early days, for sure. Yeah. Okay. So continue. So how did you get started with developing? Yeah. Sought of contributing during the university on the same years studied computer science, and then twenty fifteen after that, I joined a bloodstream at this point, I want to jump into more some of the technical details of these topics, and we're going to be asking lots of questions here. But I, I think we should define exactly what we mean. When we say, tap root tap, script or Schnorr signatures, and we've decided we're going to start with Schnorr signatures, and we're just going to define what exactly that needs. So I'd like to ask Peter in your words. Could you describe, what is a short signature? And why is it important? Okay. So currently bitcoin uses e city as as signatures to let a key sign off on transactions. So whenever. You have an address. It is at least when it's a single key, one, it is really a hash of a nieces, April Blakey, and when you receive coins stood in one to spend those you need to sign off using Chris awning, private easy as key now. Isa DNA algorithm, has a interesting history. The it's the DA signature scheme just fairly common a fourth it's to the elliptic curve, rip Dogra fy worlds, but the DA's as signature scheme was originally designed pretty much as a way to avoid the patents on Schnorr signatures Schnorr thing insurance for invented by bitter, Klaus Schnorr. I think who gave up this and over the years, people found many, interesting properties and things that could be done with these. But unfortunately, he patent them as a result, the world looks to standardize an alternative, there, wasn't, which was the as a. The niece it is a full load and bitcoin in its early history, apparently business so on itself, the differences, between the as a, an elliptic, curve Schnorr are aren't that big. So it's just a different way to sign transactions. It sounds like you're saying, right. Correct. An even more low level of it's the primitive, you used to produce that signature, however, there's a number of properties that the signature schemes have they were interested in and one of them in particular is the fact that these signatures are the near what this means in practice is, you can take a group of people take their public ease to combine those public peace together into a single public. He and now those participants who's public as you have taken to, to combine can join Lee produce a signature for the combined public. This is really of. A very compact way of doing, but we're calling Moses signatures in bitcoin, and particular NO van ones. So you have a group of three signers, and you want all three of them to sign off on something instead of needing to put three public. He's on the blockchain, you only put one and instead of having a signature for each you only have want, it sounds like this is more efficient, but also importantly, it's more private because crack, you're exposing information. Exactly generally, when you're exposing Lesin formation you also reveal less but in particular what is gained? Here is unique less about your policy to the world. So imagine a fencing new bee's of wallets hardware wallet software Swede comes on the market fancy wallets and they're the only ones in the world us five out of seven multi signatures. Well, if you're gonna use that software will be blatantly obvious to the entire world, which transactions are fence, you all at once so by reducing that information leaked by turning pretty much everything into a single singer so far. I've only talked about the NFL decays, but there are ways to get similar not quite as big, but similar improvements for AOL van or different policies as well. So wait, what's K of n que? Oven is say two out of three where k is different from Ed. That's what we usually call. Oh, I see. Okay. So we're in another letter. That confused me. I understand 'em. N sound too similar. So I started using gay men that's clever. Thank you. Okay. Yeah. So when we talk about KO van or Trish holds you have a number of participants you wanna sign, and you only need a subset to sign off, and we talk about signature or event is you have a group of participants in all need to sign off and Schnorr signatures giveaway to make an oven, very efficient because it just turns into a single key with a single signature, but similar improvements can can be made using more advanced techniques for gay. Oh, hannah's. Well. It should be noted. I think that's they are some recent papers that show that you can do some of these things with CD's a as well. But the NFL butts in practice, they are quite hard to implement require new assumptions and in particular, if you want to have an implementation that is side channel resistance. That's quite hard to do with these schemes. You're absolutely right, Jonas. So these things can be done with the as as well. But due to the linear ADI property of Schnorr signatures, it is vastly easier, both more efficient and easier to get rights, and the protocol overhead is lower a follow up question on that from my rating. I understood that there's also a way to produce some formal proof about some of the security properties of Schnorr, that is of particular. Of value to a solution like bitcoin ES, so Schnorr signatures, can be proven secure under the assumption that it internally uses the hash. And if we modeled that hashes random oracle and assume at the discrete locum problem over Lipsey of groups is hard than from that you can prove that, nor signatures are secure the same is notable for a city, as but we're really for a city as a really able have tried. And I don't think there's any reasonable assumption that it will actually be broken. But it's nice to have a formal proof for these things. What happened with the patent that was originally filed on this, because you said at the beginning, this was a patented technology that couldn't be incorporated into bitcoin. Well, actually could be a dependent expired in two thousand eight what the pattern accomplished was that people. Didn't use nor signatures standardized on other technologies instead, and it comes creator just take. It was available and easy is a was standardized fast and small enough. So it dicta books. Oh, it was the obese Joyce. Right. And has Schnorr himself changed his mind about patenting whereas has he weighed in on what he thinks about this? As far as I know he always held the DMZ actually infringed on his balance. Okay. This. Oh, it's been a question that I've had 'cause I hear bitcoins decentralized, and I always try to understand what that means and what then doesn't mean and then you hear about, like, who has control over bitcoin, and who's really in charge, or responsible for it in, we hear of all these protections that bitcoin core contributors have under free speech for contributing to the repo but not being the commercial actor engaging in it in the actual activities, which is why they're very strong protections for open source contributions. Why would something like a patent? Stop a superior technology from being implemented in repo for a decentralized open source project. Like I, I don't understand where that limiting was it just because the libraries weren't standardized. Like you said sorry, where I'm getting at I think I do. So typically, the reason why bitcoin didn't take Schnorr from the start is simply because it wasn't standardized. Okay. And it wasn't standardized. Because earlier, it was patented if you're talking about now, would it be possible to incorporate as the technology into bitcoin, or into implementations, I'm not a lawyer? But I think it's least concern would be that be want us to be even if there is no legal problem. But doing so you don't want us to have to worry about can I use this software. Right. The question isn't just is derived technology is also do you expect ecosystem to adopt. It's and when there's road blocks like batons in the way that question becomes harder. It becomes more. Controversial include something like that. Because then you actually have that as a question whereas the way that the protocols right now there's really no question about whether it infringes on patents. So the, the standardization question is interesting. I'd like to explore that bit further from what I understand the bitcoin implementation of snore the proposed implementation of Schwartz is leading the way in standardizing knock just how Schnorr signatures are encoded how the represented. But also there's been a lot of developments arounds multi stake with snore in protocal music, that you also be involved in is bitcoin eating the way in standardisation wish nor. Now, there's a number of others, signatures schemes that are essentially Schnorr based, the don't go by that name, one of them is at two fifty five nineteen night, which is the apple one I have no idea. But that wouldn't surprise me. So that is the sensually also specializations of Schnorr based scheme into a practical standards. We. Us to fifty five nineteen for several reasons. One of them is we like to maintain compatibility with the existing public system. We have so that things like thirty two and everything builds on it. Don't get invalidates. It wouldn't be a terrible thing to do, but it's simple enough to, to maintain compatibility. So we defined Schnorr signature overdose XP to fifty six k one curve, which is the same curve. That's bitcoin is a scheme is currently defined over. So the curve doesn't change, which means also the private case based doesn't change writes the same primordial keys remain the same, and therefore, we can reuse all of the existing in coatings than in fact, the derive private public and signatures from the same kind of sets of standards technologies. We have, like, for example, mnemonic seeds based on thirty nine in higher deterministic wallet. Some thirty two at cetera. Absolutely. That's a huge advantage. It would be a soft fork to incorporate that it would be so because of the script version ING introduction in Seguin's, visi rosettes these proposals being dusted as segue feed won the second edition cycle, essentially does. Right. Yes. So do to descript version mechanism, we can essentially make proposals that completely changes, crypt system or anything within that space and all of these things remain. Simple southfork as opposed to trying to head gets into existing codes. Which what we have to do before. So two years ago when we started talking about segue tweet predicted that, that would be one of the big benefits because it gives enormous flexibility for operates through sauce, forks, and the other two proposals that were brought to the table, the tap scripts tap roots, which also incorporates masts the Kleist abstract. Syntax. These these also being proposed as a soft fork, but one of the things that struck me as very interesting is the being proposed as a bundle. Meaning altogether in that has a lot to do with the combination of features the bring the best set of privacy solution so that it's not office that you're using new privacy techniques. Can you talk a bit about what's tap root is, and how it relates to Schnorr mass whitey's being Broughton as a bundle of proposals yet. Sure. So if you start from the perspective of the consensus rules, you need to start with nap routes. So the big tap roots of proposes semantics for Seguin fee one and way to look at that Prut is it is a generalization that merges at bay to public. Ye or beta bubbly Gizenga key policies and betas grip tash in a way. Every output becomes both of them everything becomes a combination of a key or scripts. So when you based on when you get an address, you won't be able to see any more is this going to a tea or is this going to screw it could be either. And the Senator doesn't care network doesn't care. Nobody sees when you want to spend such an out goods. You have two options either you prove, you know, the private key to its, and then you can just spend it or you prove that, well, it was actually address that was derived from scripts, so you give that script, you prove that it is, and then satisfied scripts, the amazing property that this accomplishes is that you don't reveal which of these options existed. So you can still have outboards that are only to a key or only two scripts, and you can't distinguish them. And when spend. Thing you don't reveal whether the other option existed in the first place or if both existed you don't either. So the effect of this is that if you have an out with his two aqui or a complex scripts. But you're now spending, it's using key that looks completely identical to a single key standard payments that was being Spence. Let's give him a practical example here, which kinda springs the minds, as so one of the examples where you might be able to use this in the future is have a complex smart contracts that involves collaboration between parties, such as the lightning channel. Now lining channels are tumult, he said, and when they're closed cooperatively between the two parties, which vast majority of the time. Well, that's how it should be instead of revealing to the world of this is a channel by dumping, a big fairly for both script onto the chain. When spending it to close the channel. The two parties who are already in communication of the lightning period. Fair network, could simply compose a joint signature using Schnorr and spend the public side of that without revealing. That was a channel at all. So it looks like someone just spent a payments. No one even knows that it was a lightning channel in the first place. That's where the end of n type cooperative multi were all party sign. Is that correct debt is absolutely rights. That is also the reason why she is integrated into this, because we make an assumption here that most comes Rex can actually have disorder cooperative branch that just consists of a number or even all participants into contract, agreeing and due to delineate not property-owners nor signatures. Those things can be turned into a single G and as soon as it is a single key tap root can make it super efficient by making. Just like a single signature on the chain. And this is both of privacy yet, and it is both privacy, scaling advantage. Right. Because all you see on the chain, a single public when paying do it a single signature spending it, that's all that goes back to your question about bundling. There's a number of ecology is included here. So we've already mentioned too, that, that proved construction and Schnorr because Norlin so only gives us a bit better Moby signatures. And that proved on itself doesn't do much unless you have this who operative branch in there. They can assume is going to be used most of the time together, they're much more powerful. So a few other things are added to its Merckel trees, which are an obvious win like when we're making these changes already adding the Myrtle tree in there is a very simple addition. And it means that if you now have multiple. It is not a key or a script. It is a key or one of many scripts, and it remains efficient even when you have thousands, maybe millions of possible small scripts and add this gives you a similar advantage for your again, revealing less to the world about what you're doing. You're still revealing the actual script, you're using but not all the other script that possibly were involved in his contract. So just to summarize here in the old way we affectively have specific methods for different types of users in uses. And because of that it's possible, and even easy to tell the difference between normal transaction and something like a multi Sagar simple smart contract in the new way, we have a single unified method, which because everything looks the same dramatically improves privacy as well. As having the other benefits, we've been talking about here. That sounds rights. It's time for another sponsor minute, with Matt from the easiest way to spend your bitcoins, and save fifteen percent or more on Amazon. As we've been discussing person's efforts to make bitcoin more useful go beyond your commerce side. Well, we want everyone to integrate bitcoin into their businesses in their lives, and we make it easy with an open source project called acquaint between is an alternative implementation of bitcoin protocol written in no J s and it's very easy to read. 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Alex Gladstone of the human rights foundation approach me about collaborating on a series of interviews, showcasing perspectives invoices, that go beyond our regularly expected experiences today. I'm pleased to have Alex clad seen here. I interview Alex n n how are you doing? Thanks for having me on. Yeah. Absoltely. Really glad that you brought this up so to kick things off. We're pleased to welcome. Zia Sada from Iran had him. Hey. Absolutely. So let's start with the basics what part of Iran, are you from what your basic level of experience crypto currency? What do you do? So a lot of people know, me here in Niran in on bitcoin. I've been doing research on, it's fun. Crypto of all your four years now the last years, I've been focused on bitcoin, only the thing is that I'm on a very active member in Iranian bitcoin communities. I always talk and discuss bitcoin on Twitter on Legrand channels, one thing to note is that airing Embiid quantities, are mainly living in telegram. So it's not onto it. Alright it I come from a literature background? I asked that English literature in college I started learning about the plan, actually using bitcoin, once I heard about. But it and like Torrens websites, all vets was like very interesting for me that I could like do what I do urine air on and get paid more using bitcoin because like the wage here is very cheap and having access to a global community where you could offer your services few of other people get paid from them was like berry interests, that sector full of Garennes nowadays is one of the main used as bitcoin actually in on. As I said before I've been pretty active in the bits fund space here in Iran. And like this lead may to do like to interact with a lot of luck blown. Mkx people will noun acknowledge people in this space and what I had toward show. A couple of months ago, I had like I, I did the interview with New York Times with coin magazine with a lot of lakes, pulling and all of these places own air on, I've been very, very embalmed with bitcoin air, on the whole time key tells a little bit about how bitcoin helps you like how does it help you get around some of the financial barriers that the rain dictatorship or the US government has in, in this part of the world? We have a few system here are, which is usable will is not that usable in the long term, actually since we have inflation, but still it's kinda usable like how much value your currency lost in the last two years. Well, I can't say like exact figures, but I know that the price of us, the servers to either I think plus three hundred percents said. Value aren't real lust three times of its value. So the thing is that he, we are facing some kind of severe economic problems because of this inflation, and he will lose juicing power sometimes even every month. I don't think this could be convertible to what's going on in on Venezuela. But it seems like what getting though it's like we've following the footsteps. How are people using crypto currency? What's the point? Right. What, what's the point that people are, are using crypto currency for if it's bitcoin or something else for that matter? But primarily, we're talking about bitcoin within Iran. Is it primarily to take payments from outside the country that they wouldn't be allowed to typically because of the sanctions, or is it a way to escape inflation, as a, you know, sort of savings mechanism that can be tapped into in a'similar way to gold has been in the past, or how do you see people within their on in community using crypto Kurtz, I should start by talking about, like bitcoin usability since it's kinda new everywhere. It's like it's nature everywhere. But the thing about bitcoin is, that's we're on equal grounds host of the ward, and that's good for change. Like if you know what I mean what we never been on equal grounds like in comparison with Dennis of the road from the monitor aspect. Like we had inflation, we have censorship. We've been. As anxious by the whole ward. So with bitcoin, where on equal ground with the rest of the world, and this is what kind of knew it is something worth noting. So with the situation with bitcoin in Iran, is that I can say that the summary is like we're getting the people are using it. I see freelancers using it to get paid or maybe pay for outsourcing, the some of the work to people from other parts of the world. I see remittance happening like families sending money for the kids studying abroad, people who work abroad, and send money to their families, and this this happening. I see a lot of big companies interested in educating themselves on bitcoin and studying it's like feasible to be used as like an art to the current situation like they have. They have a lot of Trump troubles with the with the ways they do. Can they do business and they conduct their business nowadays and the ways they transferred money abroad? So this is very interesting that see the big companies like from different industries in the food industries, all that studying the feasability using it, maybe some stable countries like, don't get as Festus. We do don't get why bitcoin should be important and dish should be used. But let me give you a comparison, something, which happens, you're in your I could compare this to bitcoin, like we here in Iran. We use VPN's all the time, like m using piano right now to talk with you. So people should know that using PIN's is not only to bypass, like some than social anything. It's like good for privacy. It's good for Lexa curiosity in all of that. And like people in Europe in the US relieves v. Paeans. But, like if my grandfather uses VPN here Niran, so this should be the case bitcoin on it is, would getting though, 'having this path for bitcoin communities all over the world to see us use bitcoin. We feel the need for it, much sooner that other countries, which are more stable than us. So don't get me wrong. We have still speculate. There's as a matter of fact, they are, like, somehow, the majority still as is the case everywhere, but we have a lot of people to who need and use bitcoin. One of the things we've been talking about with reference to kind of bitcoin in the rest of the world. Is this concept of quitting time? So would be interesting to hear from you Zia is first of all, I if you're trying to get money from someone in the United States, let's say, how does that process work? And if I send you money now would like let's say an open source wallet. Something like a bread wallet and I just I just send you bitcoin directly. Your open source wallet and it gets through in twenty thirty minutes. How long does it take you once that's on your wallet in Iran to sell into local currency? So what is the time between when my bitcoin arrives on your wallet? When you can be holding riyal the local currency in your hands. The short answer would be like sometimes even twenty minutes, but the long answer would be depends on the amount of money. So if you like send me, I don't know, ten thousand dollars of us that would be that would take a lot of time because of all those in the Fiat system here locally at system. Two one hundred dollars and walk us through what you would use. So let's say a hundred bitcoin appears into your open source read wallet. Now, how would you turn that into a ring in Turkey? So I will though I go on the check my bookmarks for the websites that I've been like using for the last one or two years, that I saw bitcoin to them or buy bitcoin from them. Because like I built trust McKenna's on with, like, I have the trust McKenna's on the takes a little bit of time. So I I go and hit those websites and see which one of them has liquidity. Most of them do have. So I check the prices which one offers the best fries than I send the bitcoin to them. They send me the local currency in my Bank account in like less. If it's like one hundred dollars in less than twenty minutes. It's so these local bitcoins, or they're like a rainy inversions of local bitcoin. It's like local vendors there, bitcoin vendors declined sellers by and Selva coin to you. They are just like local bitcoin, but did not using local bitcoin. They have their own website, you could contact on telegram, the contact them down, like you use the digital escrow function, would you ever meet somebody in person to impersonate, bitcoin exchanges that, too risky, or dangerous? Yeah. Why not let if it's like not the a lot of money or something, like I know people who meet like face to face do their transactions and the exchange bitcoin. They like meeting cafes in crowded places. So just to underscore the point if I wanted to send you a hundred dollars now using the banking system that would be really difficult correct or impossible. Yeah. Maybe impossible, Masa. But I can send you. One hundred dollars of bitcoin right now. And you're saying, perhaps within the hour, you can turn it into a rainy currency deaf lists than in our case. This is powerful Adam. Right. This is pretty Mary, right? No. Definitely in that use case that makes a lot of sense you mentioned earlier in our conversation that you're primarily interested in bitcoin. I'm one of the question marks about sort of, you know, about use a specially in places where hyper inflation is taking root is do the scales of value in terms of transaction fees on bitcoin. Make it harder for you to use bitcoin relative to something that has less transaction fees, less, you know, amount of money, actually need to be paying transaction fees, because a transaction on the bitcoin network today will cost you twenty five cents, something like that, which isn't a huge amount of money. But depending on how much money are sending it actually can be what's the perception of how expensive bitcoin is to use relative to other options out there, both in terms of cryptocurrency in the world? Since actually, there's no alternative. It's not like we could use like Paparella, Wisden union anything. So bitcoin is the only option we have. But still the thing is that we can't use other cryptocurrencies because they don't have enough liquidity. It's like you won't find somebody who, who would buy or sell to you. Maybe you find some people who buy our silly Theam but like ninety nine percent of the time. It's all bitcoin so insanely there are better options out there, because they would have a lower absolute fee but because that's there's a lot of those options. And nobody is really settled on any one of those or not no predominant group, compared to bitcoin to makes bitcoin more attractive deal. Even if the fees are higher on a per transaction basis. Yeah. It's basically that than also all the tools like that bitcoin provides, like you could use a lot of different ballots. Like you could use a multi. Nick thing or anything, but like you can't find these for most of the coins out there, so. Right. So the, the infrastructure in the support applications that have been built around, it also, making Amar tractive, ecosystem. That's interesting couple more questions here we've seen in Venezuela that there is certainly in theory. A use case for a for crypto currency that is issued by government backed by oil reserves, or buy gold or something like that. There's been talk about something similar to that happening with official sanction with the Iranian government, or, you know, through consortium of banks or something like that. I'm not asking you for any information about that. What do you think of state initiatives within Iran? Actually, there's a lot of confusion around these topics because this is how that uranian media works actually most of the media. But there was a lot of confusion regarding these topics. So those a conservative banks who are doing some kind of like a payment system, which uses a focal look this horns. Hello. I think I'm not sure of the technical site, but it does not have anything to do with the government. It's like this show private. Thanks. I think it's like most private. Thanks. It's trying to do something different like took MS Asian all deluxe. Using blockchain to do some smart contracts for, like, I don't know, bonds or anything. So it's not like they're trying to launch crypto actually saw a lot of the people I met there. See THEO and I saw them talk in their meetings. They're not trying to do cryptocurrency folded governmentally. Think actually this is what they claim that sickened thing is about what the government actually said the icing minister of Iran last year, said that they need like cryptocurrency. I don't know. They say that why are they? Why are they? Why do they need the currency? But just they just said that we need courtesy, and he like appointed one Bank to do electric search like some implementations for. So this died off. After the ice minister said this about, then there's, there was nothing about it. No news about it. That's all after that. And then we see that this big company, which is actually mainly responsible for most of the technology. That's a central Bank. If aren't uses I s seats Eliasi, so they trying to build a platform, I think they demonstrated like Demel for which is based on the blockchain, hyphen Leger. It's like a deal t it's not a blockchain and they're not trying to do like cryptocurrency in the sense that will she other cryptocurrencies. It's just like they're trying to enhance or improve the network that is used right now for the Iranian real so excited about blockchain technology that they can control. But what about bitcoin, like, what is the legal status of bitcoin? Is it dangerous to us and end is the government using chain analysis? I mean it sounds like you're using your Bank account fairly openly. To exchange bitcoin into he talked to us about risks. You might be taking in what the government is doing to crack down on these bitcoin, though, two instances that I that I should like mention here, it's like February two thousand nineteen a draft for cryptocurrency regulations was published by the central Bank of Iran. It's not approved by the main regulate or anything, it's only a draft, they said that we were releasing this for review by people who are interested in like giving us feedback or anything. So it was just like that it's only a draft way seat. It's shows us what they are thinking about bitcoin. It's okay with bitcoin. You, you could have bitcoin you could transfer bitcoin, send it to others that their offices. So, but the only thing is that you cannot use bitcoin. SM Mitha the famous inside the country me nets against law. Yeah. It's completely forbidden. Says forbidden in the draft. We the bold. Yeah, but, but, you know, are enforcing this, like, are they using chain analysis or are they arresting people or is this just a threat might experience shows that being active in this space? There's no chain of analysis going on for now. But there must be like something, but they planning to do something in the future. Once they see bitcoin being used like on a much larger scale the Iranian cyber police, very willing to work with bitcoin exchanges to guide them through what to do. What are they doing? Bitcoin business, the ciphers does not block them or stop them, or anything it, this looks says that you should do a KYC than if you like lose the something goal. You get tainted money coming in your Bank account. Then you have an excuse for that they only give you guidelines instructions, they don't block. In April or March two thousand eighteen actually one year ago from now. Some like bitcoin business websites exchanges aiming process around a lot of foreign bitcoin related websites. Actually, that's locked and censored, by the government, but it's like a very fragmented government like this. Other belief is not in charge of blocking websites, but there's another like entity, which website, so they're brash Nala was that bitcoin is used for gambling. And now it's like some gamble again, bling websites use bitcoin, and they blocked websites that deal with bitcoin dusted pro the access for people who want to gamble with it and use it for gambling. Website, embedding, websites. You know that gambling bedding is like illegal in the also they've been his was there actional. The thing that I wanted to save, like the two points is one about mining gin one is about, like government and inflation main things that make the like economy failure near on is like, massive corruption and buzzer. Lances thick for him policies, there's a long list, but some of these much older than the others like embezzlements everyone of month, equal to billions of dollars getting invisible, like all over the country by, like big company, these do lead to society, suffering from sensitive lack of humour is for life stand. There's poverty also makes the market's suffer from government intervention over, like regulation with his this is also important makes a lot of businesses and big businesses have a lot of trouble to drive. There are a lot of double standards. Like from the government, we see our people from the government actors from the government middle with the market and make the economy overall week or all the time. You're a bitcoin user who lives under police state. How important is privacy to you in bitcoin. I'm privacy fan. I'm not like the most extreme hardcore privacy guy in the world. But to I'm a fine of privacy, I think of it s right for myself. There's no way that the big the head. Let us in our own you cannot use money in a in a private way. Like if people look out people accept it bitcoin that will be great like, our would you like us? Fire up my Asaba wallet icon, Joan line coins, used them and keep everything private. They let you with the traditional system like they don't even let you use that much cash with bound to us like twenty dollars of yet, every day, like if you want to get some from the ATM, that's like insanely low amount of money twenty dollars a day. So you see what I'm getting is he could be a few. Sure where bitcoin allows people different. The field system won't allow that. Yeah, definitely. See that bitcoin getting Ben this to the payments inside the are on his like somehow leading to this think the government says that we can use something we cannot control us method of payment inside of the country, if could own bit going, they could use a transplant money. Oh, anything. They want to do with it, but they cannot use like emergent cannot use it as myth of the famous this shows how it's against the privacy, actually gains sovereign ship for money is electrically, cheap in Iran. Do you make a lot of money mining? Yeah. About lining. I'm not a minor actually, but I know a lot of friends who are minors. So it's a kind of profitable income for some people. So we have big scaling-up rations year and also people who combine cheap electricity with mining like to get. Some kind of income what, what is very attractive for some people who have like minimum wage, or very low income. The reason is that imagine this one mining device gets, you money, equal to a monthly income at minimum wage say imagine like having one device which pays you as much as you get for your work, the whole month mining, it like very profitable for some people or large businesses and for small scale mining with one or two devices in houses and all. One. Interesting thing that I wanted to save both like inflation. You remember that how bitcoin to bully Vars in twenty K was still the same when it dropped to three thousand dollars. The price in bully Vars was exactly the same as in three thousand dollars as it was like in twenty K. So this, this actually happening near onto, so it was like one billion are at twenty K dollar for bitcoin, and what right now. Why? Well, and talking to you, it's like, really close to one billion the IRA, again, at, like five years, the sale you see that it's like gives a very good. Picture. How is going on? Thanks for listening to this episode of, let's talk bit point this episode was sponsored by purse audio and featured content from Sipa Jonas, Stephanie and drapes. Jonathan Zia, Alex and Adam. This episode was ended by Dave and Adam music for this episode was by Gerald Rubens. Gertie beats stay tuned next week for part two of our discussion with Sipa and Jonas at our next international interview focused on Nigeria, as always, you've named Adam, let's talk bitcoin dot com with questions or comments see next time.

Schnorr Iran Sipa Jonas government Klaus Schnorr United States Alex Peter bitcoin developer Stephanie Murphy Jonathan Mohan Madame be Levin Andreas Quinn Finney Venezuela Nick
New Episodes Releasing as "Speaking of Bitcoin" for a while

Let's Talk Bitcoin!

01:21 min | Last month

New Episodes Releasing as "Speaking of Bitcoin" for a while

"Hey Folks Adam Levine here just a quick extemporaneous message to tell you that temporarily the original let's talk bitcoin show is going to be releasing our primary episodes. Those are the discussions that I have with other host the show under the name speaking of Bitcoin, we've been in as I said a trademark issue and we're GONNA win but it's GonNa. Take a while and not being able to call the show by its name because I don't want kind of implicate other parties into this dispute that I'm having a has led to this temporary renaming of the show. So you'll find normal discussion episodes now released under the name speaking of Bitcoin through the same channels and also be doing a little mini episode under the. Original, let's talk bitcoin show branding specifically for listeners to either our soundcloud or are anchor distribution channel. So a little bit of behind the scenes for you come in there. So as always if you have any questions or comments, you can send me an email at adamant lt be show dot com but yes, stay tuned for our next episode tomorrow with the CEO of. Crack and financial where injury is Stephanie and I talked to him about what it means to be the first crypto bank in the United States onto the Wyoming statute that'll be live on coin desk at about four am tomorrow Pacific Time and live on the main original. Let's Talk Bitcoin show feeds at about ten am Pacific Time so until next time thanks for listening.

Adam Levine bitcoin Stephanie CEO Wyoming United States
Bitcoin Ecosystem with Andreas Antonopoulos

Software Engineering Daily

1:00:21 hr | 1 year ago

Bitcoin Ecosystem with Andreas Antonopoulos

"Andreas antonoff lewis is the author of several books about cryptocurrency engineering including mastering bitcoin and mastering ethereal in these books <music> andrea lays out the systems of economics and computer science that underpin the two most mature decentralized monetary systems when andreas originally only discovered the bitcoin whitepaper he had witnessed the repeated mismanagement of government backed fiat currencies. Andreas has a greek background in the financial essential collapse of two thousand eight had led to an economic crisis in greece andreas his first-hand observation of the weaknesses of centrally planned government currencies. He's together with a degree in computer science and distributed systems have made him a dedicated evangelist for bitcoin andreas joins the show to discuss the bitcoin ecosystem uh-huh system in the relationship between decentralized crypto economic systems and centralized corporations facebook has recently announced a crypto currency project called libra and andrea suggests that lieber changes everything not necessarily because lebron will make it to production or because lieber itself will up into the world of finance but because it allows us to further call into question the very nature of what makes a modern currency valuable and valid after all if a government has the right tobacco currency. Why shouldn't a large corporation have that same privilege. Andrea is also a co host of one of my favourite bitcoin podcasts god casts. Let's talk bitcoin. The co host of that show adam levine has been previous guest on this show and if you're looking for more andreas content check out his podcasts when i'm building new product g two. I is the company that i call on to help me find a developer who can build the first version of my product eight g. two. I is a hiring platform run by engineers that matches you with react react native graph curiel and mobile engineers who you can trust whether you are a new company building your first product like me or an established company that wants additional engineering help g two. I has the talent that you need to accomplish your goals. Go to software engineering daily dot com slash g to i to learn more about what g two i has to offer. We've also done several shows with the people who run g to. I gave greenberg and the rest of his team. These these are engineers who know about the react ecosystem about the mobile ecosystem about graph react native they know their stuff and they run a great organization and in my personal experience g._t._i. Has linked me up with experienced engineers that can fit my budget and g. Two staff are friendly and easy to work with. They know how product-development works they can help you find the perfect engineer for your stack and you can go to software engineering daily dot com slash gee to i to learn more about g._t._i. Thank you to g two i for being a great supporter of software engineering daily both as listeners and also as people who have contributed code that have helped me out in my projects so if you want to get some additional help for your engineering gene projects go to software engineering daily dot com slash g two. I andrea into nautilus. Welcome back to software engineering daily. Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed our previous interview looking forward to this. Just one awesome next year. Bitcoin will undergo a having where the block reward will decrease by half. Why do bitcoin block awards decrease over time. Well bitcoin has a very unique monetary policy which is part of its d._n._a. If you like it's part of the rules that were set in the place when it was launched in two thousand nine and that are preserved by all of the participants in the bitcoin ecosystem and this monetary policy he is intended to be deflation to create digital scarcity meaning that bitcoin is intended to be rare and finite emulating in many ways the the model of mining for gold. It's even more strict digital form of scarcity that doesn't exist in nature where at some points no matter how much people want more bitcoin to be issued it simply won't so every four years or actually every two hundred ten thousand bitcoin blocks. The amount that is issued is divided in half. How how has this having historically affected bitcoin well interestingly enough even though it happens suddenly so in a single block the reward suddenly goes from whatever was to have that the market's really anticipates this having a long time in advance and so it's priced into the expectations the effect of this having is this is really from an economics perspective a supply and demand in fact if you think about it. It's almost like the federal reserve's monetary policy. Only only you know exactly what's going to happen at any point in the future because it's built into an algorithm so just like the markets react to the federal reserve observe announcements about interest rates the markets react to the having because affectively the issuance determines the interest rate on on bitcoin so the difference of course is the with the federal reserve. You don't know until they announce it whereas with bitcoin you know well in advance every time the having has happened. It's it's had an impact on the market basically reduction in supply if the demand remains the same a reduction in supplying a causes the price to go up because there's less aspect quaint available for the same amount of fires and this particular having is even more interesting because with this having having the insurance rates of bitcoin will correspond to a one point eight percent increase per year so it's almost like the interest interest rates goes down to one point eight percent now that is below the two percent target that central banks have as part of their mandate in most most countries so that means that the inflation rates if you like a bitcoin will now be below pretty much every currency in the world could you route described the difference between block reward and transaction fee yes so essentially the reward is made up of two parts parts which we call the block subsidy and the transaction fees the block subsidy is essentially new coins issued as part of the block reward and and the transaction fees are the sum of all of the fees of all of the transactions included in the block and the fees are paid by the person initiating initiating a transaction and they act as a mechanism a market pricing mechanism to determine the priority of each transaction for access assist to the block chain which is by definition a scarce resource meaning that there is a limited amount of space fit transactions and somehow are we need to decide which transactions more important than others <hes>. There's really only two ways to do that. One is to start to allow someone to make a decision as to who whether a transaction is important or not by classifying transactions and the other way as to allow marketplace to develop an essentially allow will eat person who issues a transaction to decide for themselves how important that transaction is to them in signal that choice using the price of a transaction fee so if i am in a hurry if my transaction is important to me and i'm i feel an urgency i include a higher higher fee so that might transaction is more competitive vis-a-vis all the other transactions and gets included sooner if i'm not in a hurry i include a low fee and my transsexual. We'll be included eventually. Maybe not if there's not enough capacity and that way we use a market based mechanism so those transaction fees are collected elected by minors so that the minor who produces a block elects all of the fees for all of the transactions that are in that block are there any ways in which the this the balance of transaction fees and block rewards could go haywire at some point in a sense just that the transaction fees might end up getting so high that nobody would actually want to transact with bitcoin well the transaction transaction. It's a self correcting mechanism because it's the transaction fees get so high that means the <hes>. There's a lot of demand for limited box base and hands. If that's the case people don't want to pay those transaction fees they stop issuing transactions and transaction fees drop because there's less competition for space until until people want to issue transactions again so the market kind of prices the transaction fee to accommodate all of the people's demand for transactions. It's it's almost like saying. You know that nobody goes to that restaurant because it's too busy right taking a step back. You are highly engaged with the community of people who pay attention to crypto currency around the globe and that community grew massively in the last bubble and then in the community shrunk a little bit at subsided a little bit now. Cryptocurrency is entering the mainstream once again it does have this ebb and flow and every time the audience audience seems to be slightly different. The mainstream elements used to be slightly different. Tell me about the audience in typical speaking event that you're putting on these days who who is interested in crypto currencies today. That's a great question. I mean it very very much depends on where i am doing this talk in the context of the talk so i noticed very big differences <hes> usually about a third to half the audience are people who are new to the cryptocurrency <hes> by new. I mean less than a year or just over a year of being involved in cryptocurrency and then there's of course the people who income again and again and again and being part of this for more than a hero to and are consistent now in some countries trees people are interested in bitcoin primarily as speculative investment in crypto currencies in general and that's not necessarily a bad thing it depends on what access assist to investments they have so for example when i'm in certain countries in south america where they have very high inflation and currency controls bitcoin represents represents an investments that people can access that the government can't stop them from investing their money in and which protects them from inflation so that's a store values speculative investments which is for capital protection in other countries <hes> countries where people for the most part have plenty flax lacks access to financial services and investment opportunities people more interested in the social and political implications of bitcoin so there's people who who have much more interest in the long term impact that this is going to have on the relationship between individuals in the state so empowering individuals often people who come to events our privacy activists or interested in various political movements and social movements movements and many many of the people come to events are also interested in the technology itself so they're software engineers or for web developers programmers etc who are interested primarily in the technology. What are the hardest engineering problems facing the bitcoin community today so there's many interesting on hard problems because this is a pioneering technology some of our balancing competing <hes> interests or trade offs design trade offs for example. There's an interesting design trade off which is called the trial emma in blockchain's which is a <hes> tradeoff between security skilling and decentralisation so looking at blockchain's in general they present a situation -tuation whereby you can optimize for two of the three of those design objectives you can have some things that is secure and scalable but it won't be decentralized you can make it secure decentralized but it won't scale very well and you can make it scalable decentralized and it won't be very secure so that's called the try lima and there's a lot of engineering challenges as well as trade offs as to how you optimize for each one of those or how you lesson is the degree of trade off. You might have between those oh three competing entrusts. It makes me think of the in this may be a bad mapping but makes me think of the cap theorem with you know you have the trial of consistency availability availability and partition tolerance and when i think about the cap theorem this is something that has not knowledge it's ever been you know fixed fixed completely but it has been ironed out by increasingly pragmatic systems over time and it has been the story of iteration ration- and incremental technology improvements and i don't know enough about the bitcoin community the engineering solutions that are being built there in but i can easily imagine imagine just minor incremental progresses accumulating over time that alleviate that trauma absolutely on so so the other aspect of this is that like like many of these laws if you like these traumas exists within a specific system or subsystem within the technology but don't necessarily exist within the kind of overall user experience the same thing that applies to the internet cnet for example within a single layer of the protocol. You may experience design trade offs which are than hidden or resolved by other layers within the protocol right right so if you're routing something over u._d._p. Versus t._c._p. On the internet you have to choose between reliability and low latency and gradually edgeley these trade offs have been smoothed out as you said by combining features a different layers reducing some of the harsh trade offs by various optimizations and improvements by pragmatic choices such as using non optimal heuristic but <hes> sheera six that are good good enough for each solution. We can solve them when we're looking at engineering decisions things that appear impossible in theoretical basis may be somewhat. It's possible on a practical basis to a degree that the end user doesn't doesn't really see the difference classic example of that is the traveling salesman the problem right the theoretical problem in computer science says that there is no way to find the combinatorial explosive solution even the perfect solution to routing between say ten different cities on the shortest possible path that doesn't return through one of those cities because the number of combinations explodes in your face as soon as you have even a small number of cities and yet we have google maps and so from user experience france. It kind of looks like we've solved it. But of course the difference is that you can't proven in fact <unk>. It's clearly theoretically impossible to to find the perfect path between two cities but can you find a hundred perfectly good paths that still are good enough for the person you guys who tried to get from a. to b. to c. Today that are not the optimal path but they're good enough and of course you can in blockchain's these these these problems are lots about what you want to achieve in the end with the blockchain so for example in bitcoin we very reverse strongly care about decentralisation because decentralisation is a means to an end in the end is to prevent anyone from taking taking over coopting controlling and ultimately concentrating power over the system to the detriment of the participants so decentralisation is in cherish property many other blockchain's kind of will solve the trauma by simply reducing the centralization because it's something that's both hard to measure asia and its impact is more long term. Same thing is we've seen on the internet right. You don't notice that decentralisation is going away until until your grandpa tells you that facebook is the internet's and you're like oh. We've gone way too far. It's that unnoticed creeping slippery slippery slope so i in bitcoin we really care about that so we do that to the cost of skill ability so bitcoin souls trial by emphasizing using decentralisation on security at the cost of being able to scale easily on layer one and sometimes you see that reflected in fees where it gets expensive transact on the first layer of the blockchain but then one of the interesting developments in the last year has been developing protocols as a second layer buff that the allow us to route payments in a way that they're not broadcast in fair fight by everyone but instead are truly peer to peer through a system this them routed payment channels. This technology called the lightning network and that allows us to get very very good scaling properties in layer to even if the <hes> the underlying layer one doesn't scale very well so we push some of the problem and solve it in a different way. It's very similar to to solving the fundamental routing problems in the i._p. Layer on the internet to not caring too much about reliability and end to end streaming screaming and then solving those at the t._c._p. Layer and not caring too much about application and encoding and solving those at the h._t._t._p. Layer that's a fundamental toll way of looking at engineering which is maybe you can't solve the problem and this layer but you can create a user experience where that problem is is slice noticeable. Sequel has been around for a very long time and the basics of sequel might not change very much from year to year but the underlying technology that implements those queries is undergoing constant innovation. The distributed sequel summit is a full day of talks about building and scaling distributed sequel systems in the cloud distributed sequel summit is september twentieth twenty nineteen in san jose california distributed sequel databases can globally w. distributed data and lastly scale while also delivering strong consistency and acid transactions the distributed sequel summit includes who'd speakers from google spanner amazon aurora facebook pivotal and yuga by db to find out about the latest innovations in large large scale distributed systems infrastructure mostly with a focus on distributed databases check out the disturbed sequel summit september twentieth twenty nineteen in san jose <music>. You alluded to the occasional. Well not so occasional confusion that some people leave that for example facebook is the internet i had. I had a kind of a disturbing conversation a couple of days ago with an engineer from india and we're just talking about what we do and he asked me what i do and i said i run a podcast. It's called software engineering daily any he said oh. How can i find it on youtube and i was like no. It's it's a podcast and he's like yes. So where's the how do i get it on. Youtube and youtube is podcast is like these joint. I mean not destroy but they're overlapping kind of things and you you know i have come really come to respect the ethos of decentralisation as it could potentially apply to a variety city of forms of communication including money and i wonder if there's clearly market demand for decentralized communications platforms and i wonder how your your current line of thinking is on on how the other platform like other communication mediums other than money. We'll develop like you know you could have policies that these things will all be built on top of bitcoin and then there's all kinds of gradations beyond that like maybe it's actually going to be a theory. 'em because the base programming language is more flexible or maybe it's like some other kind of protocol or something that are built on top of these systems are built entirely separate from these systems or have you start hard to get a belief set around how these other communications mediums like social media or video or the audio sharing how these things will manifest in decentralized fashions yeah. I think that's being one of the primary drivers drivers for the athenian blockchain and ethereal speak. That's called web three and web. Three is is intended to be kind of the next generation of the web. It's kind of a play on the web to dotto social media and interactive web generation nation that that happened a decade ago web three is supposed to be the decentralize web. I prefer to call it. The re decentralized web because when we started the web it was decentralized. You're on your own web server. If you want it's published contents and gradually it became more and more and more centralized than now. I think we're looking at three decentralizing the web that's one of the core principles within the extreme community and it's one of the driving goals of the three in blockchain gene is this concept of web. Three in the idea is to build applications where control low for many of the trusted components that today you are primarily run by trusted third parties or semi trusted third parties that provide institutional mechanisms of trust instead dead are replaced by smart contracts that provides a protocol mechanisms of trust so if you think about it you know if you want to publish content to you want to control who accesses it creates a network of of friends than you can't trust how you publish that unless you have some form of identity management or reputation management or access control and we trust companies like facebook google goal and an apple and others to provide us these access control mechanisms and identity and reputation mechanisms and they provide them as centralized institutions third parties so the idea with the theory him is if you can replace those with protocol so you have mechanisms for petitioned asian that based on protocols and smart contracts mechanisms for identity based on protocol smart contracts and methods for access control in governance that based based on a smart contracts than you don't need these centralized institutions. It's fairly easy today to decentralize data storage. We already have tons of protocols articles that do that bittorrent i s and many newfangled protocols that do that and yet a lot of our a personal content ends up being in these walled gardens and centralized platforms like facebook <unk> part of the reason is because we don't have protocols to do do the identity the reputation the access control of many of the other things we care about so i think that's a core part of the vision on the other hand however i i think in order for those types of platforms to be built we i need to get payments in money. Dun-rite we need robust is to open global systems of payments and money and part of the reason is because not only those provide a foundation for security and tross cross because people care enough to protect their keys when their keys a used for controlling money but they also provide the platform to fund all of these other activities and without that platform without that censorship resistant money it becomes very difficult to build the next layers which is why i think i think the all of the kind of rivalry in competition between platforms bitcoin. It's ms is mostly. Elsa just misguided because i think in fact they work very well together and need each other to do things that cannot be done ogle platform and should not be attempted in a single platform because the trade offs a different. Why is that i mean i i look bitcoin and yes obviously the the language is different but to me it just looks like a very basic turing machine and you can build all kinds of things on top of it like side chains is an lightning networks and you know things with like longer confirmation times where you could have different scripting languages and so on why why why couldn't you just import all the innovation into bitcoin. Why do you need these other languages and other platforms. I think primarily it's it's two reasons one is that bitcoin itself is is not turing complete. That's quite deliberate. It's actually a hard effect to achieve and difficult to maintain contain and it's deliberate because that provides a much more predictable platform for execution of much more. Let's let's call it mission critical security code <hes> if you're going to build a robust search nation state resistance censorship persistent denial of service resistance tsk global platform for money which is a very tricky proposition because governments are very serious about controlling money worldwide you you really need to focus on very conservative robust security developments and that restricts both both the range of activities. You can do on the platform as well as the the payson speed at which you can do. Developments things have to be very slow very conservative -servative very carefully reviewed before they deployed because you're talking about something that needs to be very robust now. Now that's not suitable for development of all of these other things we're talking about. They need a much more experimental much more fast paced style of development and that will necessarily happen at other layers and other chains now can those chains be connected to interact with bitcoin absolutely but the other other issue also is that the security of model of bitcoin the consensus mechanism involves verifying only the security primitives aww bitcoin itself which means that if you build the aside chain of or something else that links to it. It's very difficult gold to rely on the security guarantees bitcoin. If what you're doing is outside of that purview if it's not being validated pseudo verified by the same security mechanism so if you build the side chain that does you know fancy smart contracts etc those smart contracts are anchored or connected connected to bitcoin but they're not being verified by the bitcoin security mechanism then you have to provide that security mechanism in your side chain or in your whatever whatever else you're doing and if that's not robust then neither are your smart contracts. This is the fundamental dilemma the the calls or lead photonic turn to decide to launch. If you're innocent separate chain i see so i was imagining oh you can just engage in two hundred and fifty transactions on a side chain and then eventually compress that into something that fits into the core bitcoin blockchain but then then all two hundred and fifty of those transactions are not subject to this security constraints of bitcoins. You're going to have to figure out some totally the alternative security mechanism for securing them. If you you know unless you want to wait for the bitcoin confirmation like that that wouldn't work right. You wouldn't just wouldn't have security guarantees well it. It depends on what you're doing in the side chain. If what you're doing in this other chain or layer is payments when you can summarize the entire security states in a bitcoin script then yes you can basically take all of the security guarantees bitcoin and and essentially connected to this other states and therefore you can inherit all of those security guarantees and that's what the lightning network does because what the lightning the network is doing is summarizing the state of payments and so that's fine. The problem is if you want to do more complex things involving smart mark contracts than the state of those smart contracts cannot be expressed in bitcoin script and therefore you can't lovers security guarantees bitcoin you need to bootstrap a whole different security mechanisms that actually inspects the execution of the smart contract and the state transitions solve this mark contracts and it's exactly what does in doing so however it attacker prices in some of the robustness in order to be able to move faster turn and develop an experiment more and that means the sings that should be simpler or not and things that can be done very simply conversa- curly in bitcoin can't be done very soon simply in very securely in therapy. Here's a very good example. Multi multi sake is part of of the fundamental primitives of bitcoin script so you can implemented <hes> directly in bitcoin script and multi has existed almost so since the very beginning in its modern form since twenty twelve which is called pay descrip- tash and it is extremely robust because it's implemented at the core layer of the protocol validated by everyone and it's very very simple and simplicity insecurity are very closely related ride right the simpler you can make something the harder to find a way to you know introduce evolve or ability or fool the protocol or the validate jurors multi sagan bitcoin very very robust multi sega theorem has failed repeatedly because mulled signature is not that's part of the base protocol. It's implemented as smart contract. People have bean unfortunately rather verbose in their implementations rather than doing a very very simple multi sake. They've added features right. They've made it more flexible and some of those features resulted in bugs and those bugs exploited cause failures in multi. This has happened more than once and you know there's there's currently some moldy subcontracts in theorem that have been very carefully audited have been used for a while without motor ability. I i don't trust awesome. <hes> i wouldn't put my money in them and the reason even though other people hundreds of millions of dollars in the reason is simply because there's much more room for hours and that's exactly the kind of trade off the makes it difficult to implements the same level of security in theorem as you can in bitcoin with this is what kind of confuses me about the idea that we wouldn't want to or that. We couldn't build everything on top of the bitcoin. Ecosystem is if you're gonna need a reliable multi sig system regardless and and see if you can build again. I guess maybe what it comes down to is is the question of can you build abstractions on top off of bitcoin that are turing complete and have the sufficient guarantees that you need such that your bitcoin based system is equivalent yet superior in terms of its in terms of it's proven stability to therion cerium or is there something is there just something about if theory because it's a fundamental design trade off the flexibility you need to do expressive compose -able well and flexible smart contracts undermines your security robustness and that doesn't mean you can't do security simply means that <hes> security takes. There's a lot more than a lot of time to mature eventually once you have a smart contract has being you know polished to a level level where it's being relied on attacks at a toxin attacks. No one can find any problems with it then you can rely on that and then it's robust austin off but it takes a lot more. It's rations to get to that point because it's more complex more expressive by comparison. You can do that more easily with bitcoin because it's simpler simpler but the problem is you can't be very expressive so you can't develop the kinds of smart contracts and there's a gap between those two design trade offs and you so you don't really want to to try and close that gap. If you make bitcoin expressive enough to do smart contracts you lose some security and if you try to make your smart contract less expressive passive you gain a bit of security you lose the ability to develop interesting things beyond the basics i i would. I give you another example simple and i i should probably talk about this secrecy of bitcoin as inorganic chemistry in think of a theorem mm-hmm as organic chemistry right so bitcoin organic chemistry you can make steel out of it and it's probably robot's there are a number of chemical reactions that can happen but they're fairly limited you can in fact lists all of the chemical reactions that can happen to it because of a reaction accident very predictable way with a very specific set of elements and that set of elements is finite right so you can predict its properties from quantum level. You can predict its its properties his ex exactly what it's going to do even if you've never seen him a molecule like that before in inorganic chemistry even before it's discovered than before an atom is discovered covered a specific chemical element is discovered. We already know it's properties. You can derive its properties from you know it's composition right. You can predict its properties ladies even before it exists now compare that to organic chemistry organic chemistry fricking messy. You can have an infinite variation tune of elements that combine in different ways and it's not just what they're made of. It's also which way they're twisted and what shapes her in how they fit into another molecule has a different shape whether the left handed or right handed and you can never predict how they will respond to to interacting with another element and that makes them very unpredictable but it also makes life you know so that's the trade off and and when it comes to doing money and stuff like that i'd much rather stay firmly in the inorganic chemistry that is predictable and five nights in its implications implications but when it comes to doing more interesting things much rather stay in the organic side and there's a bit of overlap but they're two fundamentally different routes insta- bug is a feedback system that helps teams improve their app quality insta- bug allows your users to give feedback inside the app by shaking their phone users can take surveys and help. You understand their perspective about your app. If your users encounter bug that they want to report themselves they can just shake their phone and send feedback to you and your development team. This level of communication is great for beta testers or if you have a live app where you're are in close contact with your users you will also receive automated crash reports which means that every crash on a user device is going to be reported to you you and your development team go to insta- bug dot com slash s._a._v._e. Di and tri insta- bug for free for fourteen days insta- the bug lets you get feedback from your users inside your app when your app has an issue or a bug or a u._i. Glitch your users should be able to report boarded and they should be able to have a dialogue with you. Go to insta- bug dot com slash s. e. d. to try insta- book for free for fourteen days. Just thinking about it makes me wanna get insta- bug for the daily apps. We should probably check it out in more detail because companies like clift and pay pal and samsung all use insta- bug and they want to improve the quality of their apps well. I want to improve the quality of my apps to if you want to improve the quality of your apps you can check out insta- bug dot com slash s. e. d. I'd like to discuss mastering a theory him a little bit it. I read mastering bitcoin a couple years ago and i never programmed with bitcoin. I never spun up a note or anything but the the book was really useful to me because you can read the white paper and you can read crypto twitter but until so you like kind of code and you see just the engineering beauty and finesse that has gone into bitcoin. It's difficult local to really get an opp- i found i had so much more appreciation for what bitcoin is from reading that book and my sense was that in writing it you also your regard and how much you you were in all of the technology increased as you were writing it because it's it is so well put together and i'm wondering what that process was like for mastering athenian because i'm sure you you went very deep into technology and and probably probably had some insights about what made the technology beautiful so. I just love to know more about that that writing process any insights you had yeah. I mean for both both of these books. The purpose of writing them was learning for me. When i first entered the space in bitcoin i he craved a way to be able to get a very high level but detailed enough picture of whole thing so that i could grasp it but all of the information was scattered all over the place and it took forever to put it together and figure out if the information was up today to if it was relevance and and connect the dots between all of these different pieces and see them as a whole and how they work together on why they worked together are the why is very important because it gives you an insight into the how that wasn't such a resource so i set out to write it and of course when when i started that journey i didn't understand bitcoin. I mean i understood it not to the depth of the core developers who had always internalized all of this information the hard way but i didn't understand it to that level of depth and writing writing the book not only allowed me to collect all of the information and understand how fit together and why but also to learn learn and really understand bitcoin to a level looked outside never had before so i was fascinated with the theorem for the very beginning when i first saw the white paper the vitol taua <unk> december twenty thirteen and i wanted to learn more about it i was writing mastering quinn at the time so i wasn't involved in the early days keeping tabs on it and trying to learn and i found that i only understood it on. I'm very surface level and i had trouble understanding some some of the concepts on how they fit together and so. I decided to repeat the same process which is the best way to learn. This would be to write about it. I don't have have a book like mastering bitcoin to learn theorem. There isn't such a thing it was much harder to write part of the reason was much harder to rytas syria move us so much faster and they're so many. Let's say tendrils offshoots right. It's much bigger ecosystem. There's a lot happening happening at the edges size was writing it. It was changing at the same time so i tried to to capture sure what are the things that are essential and continuous or attornal about to him. You know what what's the real essence insolvent the d._n._a. Of its and walt's kind of on the surface in changing quickly the might not be relevant in a couple of years and and then again a lot of that involves focusing on why why are certain choices made. Why does it work this win. Not another way because that gives you an insight into you what's going on so again. It was a huge learning experience took me two years and at the end of it. I'm quite proud of the book because to me. It feels like the book. I wish i had when i first started learning about to him and i was my goal. It was almost immediately out of date just like with the first bitcoin book doc and the first edition is good but not great again just like the first edition of mastering bitcoin. The second one was much better and so. I expect expect some time i'm going to write. The second edition for mastering saruman is going to be much better than i am a learned to even more debt. I wanna talk. Uh little bit about libra with you. I watched a talk that you gave about libra lewis. You touched on libro very shortly. After lieber came out. Have you had had more time to to take a closer. Look at it or have you taken a closer look at it. I mean i read the white paper and i i did a talk at university. The anatomy <unk> about it mostly about the social political economic implications not so much about the paper and part of the reason for that is because <unk> i predicted at the time while the paper was written by people who strongly believe in decentralisation and a lot of the principles we talk about and cryptocurrency in fact that quote the internet of money is the title of two of my books in the first paragraph i believe were paragraph of the paper the vat vision i would never make it into production and the reason it would never make production is because it would come into contact i with facebook headquarters then then facebook lawyers finally government regulators. It didn't take more than two or three weeks from when i made that video for the full impact of that comes through i made a prediction that such a system would be unacceptable in countries that have currency crises in need <unk> strict central bank control. I use india. Here's an example india came out the next week and said this is not gonna be allowed here and many different governments immediately push-back hard against facebook the recent hearings. I think were an eye opener because it offered her a very strong chuck's. The position against i crypto real crypto like bitcoin and the concepts that i talk about to differentiate between the crypto that i care about the open blockchain's and and these other things that pretend to be but are not really talk about the five pillars the five questions you need to ask when someone says the word blockchain seen any task is an open is borderless is publicly verifiable isn't neutralises censorship persistence and the answer for all five of those us for for facebook's system is is no they could never make it be any of those things because they would immediately come under pressure to you. Start backpedaling from those positions and that's exactly what happened. You can't have a system that exhibits those properties on the five pillars that is owned by someone someone who can be coerced. It's it's impossible because they will be course immediately. Regardless of the viability of lieber it has been in a nice thrust of political and public discourse about the nature of crypto currencies. Oh yeah it changes the game completely. Why is that the the funny thing is that lebron changed the game just by writing a paper. They didn't even need to deploy anything a because they force people to start making comparisons so you know i think essentially was the second strike against the nation state money money i strike was bitcoin right and that suddenly forced people start asking questions about the nature of money and and can you have money. That's viable. That's valuable available. That's a usable without state backing the answer. After ten years is clearly yes lieber now creates other questions which are really important important which is what is the role of private corporations in the formation of money can private corporations create private money and if so what are the rules by which they operate since they're not controlled controlled by democratic institutions and that creates jocks that position it creates comparisons between both corporate money in state money but but also between corporate money and people money so now we have these three players you have state money traditional fiat you have people's money open public lick blockchain's crypto currencies bitcoin of course being the foremost example if that and corporate money and these three are going to who provide three very different perspectives the world and you know i i think people are beginning to realize that privately controlled money as dangerous and creepy and fascist than laden with surveillance once they realized that they realized that a lot of our state money he is also heading in that direction and maybe we shouldn't be eradicating cash so we're having a long needed conversation about the fact that cashless society is freedom less society in democracy less society. You can't have a cashless society. That's free the the idea of of eradicating cash in going to completely digital currency controlled by governments inexorably leads to governments that are less accountable and that's dangerous too so it's created some very interesting first thing conversations and the other conversation is creating which is really useful as the juxtaposition against the people's money because very very quickly people saw that governments are highly motivated to stop libra from happening right into to stop stop facebook from doing this and not only they motivated there are they are able and the moment they noticed that they immediately also noticed that they are unable to do the same for bitcoin and that chuck's position is really important this profound and what kinds of responses are you seeing to that kind of like or are they waking up like are they waking up to <hes> to know like oh. No this bitcoin thing like oh no so it's like actually this is actually more much more problematic than than libra like what are we gonna do or are they starting to have that actualization or as bitcoin still to nascent nascent and and kind of actualized in its effects on the real world for governments to to really start freaking out. I think it's on actualized and still to nascent and that's really really great because the problem here is that at some point governments will realize allies that this is no joke that this is not going away that this is not going to be stopped and that this is not something that they can control not even if they take extreme undiplomatic measures as some governments have already taken and still failed to control it you you know we're beginning to see what happens. When determined governments tried to ban it and then fail or as i like to say you can take your country out of bitcoin but you can't take bitcoin out of your country so when you ban it all you're saying is we will not have any legitimate or positive involvement with bitcoin and great so that goes away but then whether you're left with you still have all of the other contacts with bitcoin 'cause it doesn't go away. It doesn't leave your countries already. They're staying there. It's everywhere so if you ban legitimate user from using it you lose all of the benefits but it doesn't stop the illegitimate limits uses of it in fact it accelerates those and makes them even more profitable so pushing it under the rug pushing it into the shadows does doesn't really work. That's being demonstrated a number of times you know that that won't government's been trying to do that again and again again but for the time being they're underestimating the threat this will have <hes> essentially on sovereignty on their sovereignty and on their ability to control monetary policy would beginning to hear some some whispers. I mean pretty loud once we you know when the secretary of treasury in the united states says this is is a threat to the u._s. dollars supremacy. You're damn right it. Is you have no idea how big of a threat it is. But of course you know the narrative is still but we combat it anytime we want. You know which is the kind of narrative you can persist with long as you don't actually try to execute on it the end in fact it's it's dangerous for governments to try because the one thing that's worse than kind of vaguely tolerating it and spreading misinformation about the fact that it's like used by terrorists persson drug dealers is to actually try to ban it and then fail if you tried to ban it and then fail you provide an enormous boost the narrative that you can't ban it and that's even more damaging because then you show the impetus right but it's really funny when i talked to regulate hers and <music> government people and bankers when i say you can't regulate this the usual responses but we have the authority the laura. I wasn't questioning your authority. I was questioning your ability. There's two different things you have all of the authority in the world sure you have the authority not what you lack is the technical capability to exercise that authority and that's confusing to them because in all of the regulates it systems have seen so far mar legal authority translated into capability one to one. They've never seen a system where the legal authority does not translate into the capability so when you when you say you can't they think that your somehow questioning their legal authority i'm not i'm questioning our technical capability to who actually affect change and that's a huge difference that really hasn't been well understood and i'm glad i'd rather they continue to misunderstand to stand up for another decade and i'm i'm really glad for lebron because what it's done is distracted right is drawing all the attention attention and the ire of regulators and government officials as it should because it's far more dangerous and insidious but it's it's distracting from the thing that's really going to be a thorn in their side in a decade last question. You are the author of the internet of money. This is a book. That's if i read it a couple years. If i recall it's it's a collection of talks the highlights from talks. You've given you touch on a lot of visions and ideas around tiptoe currency some of which have come to fruition other of which are still probably presient if you were to update internet of money today. What concepts would you add. What the new areas you would focus on so first of all. There's two internet with money box. There's into not money volume one and volume two so we have updated its and volume three has been implant for this year. Oh okay so the the nice thing about these is they're not in any way continuous. You don't have to read them in order every talk in them. As standalone it was is given to a live audience. It's improvised than unique and it touches on some aspects of this technology and its social economic political impact the philosophy behind hind etc and they're structured so you can read them in a five five seven minutes setting a single chapter. It's a fun read that you don't have to start at the beginning inning and go to the end. You can just jump in at any point in read one short story and it's not technical. It's for broad audience just like my talk so internet of funny volume one volume two which now being translated in. I think more than a dozen languages are collections of mytalk sers twelve talks in each spoke eleven talks. I think in each book and we're doing more. How would i update them. I mean essentially these are almost like a continuous tenuous biography of my journey through crypto. Each volume contains newer talks than the previous volume so you can see kind of a historical. Oh progression from book to bulk has things change by continuing to do talks. I just did a european tour where i delivered nine different talks in seven in cities all of them unscripted improvised to live audiences and those are eventually going to end up in the next volume. One of them might be the leaker talk that i waited and then andrea. Thank you so much for coming back on. Thanks for being a great emissary of bitcoin. I continued to get a lot of value to your content. Oh thank you so so much. I really appreciate it. I'd like to add for your audience. All of the content type produces available on the free and open licenses a including all of my videos mastering bitcoin mastering theory invokes. You can find them online. You can follow them and read them for free. Watch videos on youtube and i'm not what's sponsored by any corporations or seeking corporates endorsement or anything like that because i'm funded directly by the community so through a the patriots won which provides me with a steady income stream for me and my staff i found my activities which allow me to take this message of education to as many people well as possible in as many languages as possible and you can find all of that undermine username which is a n. t. o. n. o. p. antonoff antonoff you can find me as aunt and up on twitter antonoff on youtube mypillow website antelope dot com and also if you wanna support me on patriot with a monthly subscription description patriarch dot com slash am beautiful. Thank you brian information. Andreas grow talk with you and best of luck in the continued talks so i'll be watching thank you so much. We'll talk soon. I hope when i was in college i was always looking for people to start side projects with. I couldn't find anybody so i ended up working on projects by myself and then when i started working in the software industry i started to look for people who i could start a business with and once again. I couldn't find anyone so i started a business myself and that's the podcast you're listening to but since then i've found people to work with on my hobbies season in my businesses and working with other people is much more rewarding than working alone. That's why i started find. Collapse collapse find collapses a place to find collaborators and build projects on find collapse dot com. You can create new projects org join projects that are already going. There are topic chat rooms where you can find people who are working in areas that you're curious about the crypto currencies as or react or coober netties or view jay s or whatever software topic you're curious about and we now have get hub integration so so it's easier than before to create a find collapsed project for your existing get hub projects. If you always wanted to work on side projects or you you wanna find collaborators for your side projects. Checkout find collapse. I'm on there every day and i'd love to see what you're building. I'd also love love if you check out what i'm building. Maybe you'd be interested in working on it with me. Thanks for listening and i hope you check out find collapse <music> <music> mm-hmm.

Bitcoin facebook united states lieber lebron Andreas antonoff lewis engineer adam levine greece greenberg developer india google chuck youtube blockchain
The Bitcoin Podcast #265

The Bitcoin Podcast

1:09:35 hr | 1 year ago

The Bitcoin Podcast #265

"Interim Guy Podcast uh-huh <music> crypto these guys they have this big point <music>. Hey everybody welcome to episode to sixty five of flagship show of the network the Bitcoin podcast. I'm the first cello number two black dress. I'm hosting three DOT court. Petty Black Dress cal. I bet changed much with her tag to black draze since kids <hes> Joe's call me a true Andrea his disciple when I know proselytizer my most recent on ramping was <hes> was very profit <unk> a half Acadia <unk> proselytizing no that's Texas number. Who's who joined us? I'm just a passionate man. This is Wayne Good morning morning. Hey wait wait has joins us from the line opened up the lines this episode so if you're under slack you got to mention that tells you where now go to talk to us on the show when we open up the lines you're not MASLAHK eurolines. The lines are open so we we're GonNa talk about a few things today. I WANNA talk about. I saw an interesting tweet in the twitter sphere <hes> this week when I was on the day and it said a not arguing that bit both the Bitcoin in theory and we'll both be successful. I'm just arguing that theory and will be one hundred times more successful than Bitcoin and I agree to that and then the other thing will hold on man. I've got to outline the show. The other thing we're going to talk about is everyone's favourite man baby. <hes> Donald Trump was tweeting about bitcoin in cryptocurrency this past week which to me is like Brian Armstrong said the level up. We've got a new achievement. We've got the president of the most powerful nation on the planet tweeting about Bitcoin <hes> we know that's not him actually tweeting but we do know that they're starting to listen and understand stand that becoming inevitability so like Thanos but like X.. Dana actually wins Shit <hes> like you don't know Wayne Those Doug on and we'll Wayne is GonNa talk about spoiler alert. They knows loses if you thought he was GONNA win. I don't know what's wrong with you <hes> and Wayne do you have any talk reports. You WanNa you WanNa bring to the table. Oh no no talking points to join in man. We appreciate your company. I hope you have coffee like we do so fire settled today. I think I just have a bunch of steamed milk for drinking coffee but easy more black Black Panther Mug. Oh God yeah Jello toward towards that I point you have to have to look at Hussein that and it's a guy who wants either succeed. He built atop. He hosts an ether author. Show so of course is GonNa save that yeah but he's not a maximum. You're not a maximalist because you want something to succeed. If that's the case then I'm cryptocurrency maximalist but I only like the good ones that is wants to someone who pushes their own agenda said they they have their flag in the sand for a coin champing and they wanted to succeed so he's GonNa say things like that to push agenda He. Doesn't you know everything that he's building. His career is right at theory. Maximalist says what I think is right is round. Nothing else is right regardless of what you tell me he none of us tweets say he liked bitcoin. Everything is eighth eighth two point zero he he interviewed metallic eat tab all that way maximalist liver because I think I'm writing a lot of ways about stuff but I'm usually wrong so but you're willing to take evidence to the contrary in Jabs your mind absolutely absolutely <hes> but I'm just why I agree with his tweet is because cerium is trying to be a much more functional cryptocurrency and I like the heat mine out simple. I don't know who started the analogy that it was actually A. What's the light coin inventor Lee Charlie he says bitcoin is gold like when a silver a theory is oil? Oh I like that oil is arguably monumentally more successful and how much is contributed to the advancements of society humanity then silver and gold guy get rid of those built burn of the World Down Yeah. You're starting to take it to extreme but yeah it. There's there's there's could trae arguments that though like when you try to do too much you'd never do anything well and so people say bitcoin is going to be better because it narrowed it scope and it does something very very very well has a very broad scope and because of that it's very difficult to get security things done properly and to scale scale and so they made a few design decisions early that make it very difficult on the entire ecosystem to scale in which that's what they're trying to fix a lot of the F. Two point solutions and then scaling solutions on top of that so let's just going to be awhile until we actually see something like that happen but for now if theorem is the one leading the charge on how how smart contracts work what they can be used for what they can't use for and how those scale and so on and so forth he doesn't I believe in a world where Bitcoin in the theory of Co exist because Bitcoin's a threat to a theory so he's GonNa stupid. That's a stupid that's. That's a stupid thing to say. No I know you're right. I agree with you that he's a maximalist and he's saying dumb things and you said something dumb Evan Man of drank with you hang out but <hes> saying that bigwig is a mean coin is probably the dumbest thing you've ever said on the point now evidence at the point now where he's just trolling bitcoin is because they a shit autumn so much like I think he's now like an easy target for a lot of Bitcoin maximalists to say things and so he's just picked up the mantle and said fuck it. I'm GONNA Terrell Bitcoin. Ours doesn't believe these things Oh okay well. That's why he's like a flatter. No flat others believe that shit trolling you know they're not. They're not have you watched. Documentary on people are not drilling well. How do you know does this can be people who've there can be people who have been convinced by trolls because they have to have something to believe in but for the bitcoin versus a theory piece I I'm pretty sure it was Andreas? Who gave the analogy allergies since you like analogies? You know there's a lion and there's a shark which ones better which one can beat the other well. They're in different environments. You put a line in the water. He's at a disadvantage probably die. You put the shark on land. There probably probably die and bitcoin solve different problems while you know they both may do a few common things and Bitcoin may games few smart contract things in that and and a little a bit of of quote unquote and touring completeness as if that was a good thing for what bitcoin does I think the comparisons are faulty because they're they are so different than what they're trying ticket. I think that's put and that's also like you look at it through that window. A lot of the criticisms on a theory of bitcoin maximum stepped point don't really hold water for instance like the inflation rate of of the theorem. There's always us as well. We don't know what the monetary supply is while it's not supposed to be money so you can't look at it from the financial perspectives you do with bitcoin conspicuous opposed to so it needs what fixed him what I what I think would happen happen. There'd be <unk> shift. If what happens in the <hes> I guess more technically based colleges universities started to expand upon the idea that hey if you're doing some research in whatever field you work in and you've got to pay for computation on our supercomputers. I think if there are more people that understood that premise like you do gorgeous you personally did that for a while and I got a taste of it <hes> they understand the power of a theory of like overnight tonight though it's like Oh okay I get it. I absolutely get S. I forget that people don't ever even see that world. People don't know that world. They don't understand the fact that like you need to pay for time for in energy for computation because they think this computer. This is my facebook machine. It just does all this fancy ass math in the background that I don't realize I'm paying for or maybe I do. My energy bill goes up but they've never directly had to associate money with computation time competition time in concord computation talent. I I may have missed a beginning when I first Dow then you were talking about some person Jason saying and you agreeing with a statement that it's very mobile one hundred times more successful it was that was that what was said yeah yeah and I agreed to that under the premise that a theory is going to be is going to have the functionality so you say oil as to where Bitcoin is it just wants to be money and it's going to be a long trick to get there but money is just it's just money so what I would add to that is one. How do you define success? I think that's really important because when you say big going wants to be money on I know you I think I know where that comes from but you know bitcoin doesn't want anything I think we're GONNA agree to that and whether or not how you define money store value a method of currency a storage of truth all the things that something like bitcoin or any blockchain could be <hes> then you had the consensus algorithm you know it adds a an element of trust and a permanent and all these different things. Does I think you have to define success and more precise terms than adoption or it's used as money or people are pricing associates. Thank you my definition finish. It would be a function utilization and how many different things theorem can be used for and used to to power that'd be my definition you take something that is <unk> a virtual machine theory in virtual computer <unk> virtual machine as what it is <hes> machine. It's basically like the way I've been trying to think of in my head is like an operating system for a global computer. Her and you've got to pay to use that operating system. Well an operating system does a lot of things it has file explorers it houses the you know the the shortcuts to your web browser <unk>. I mean we've all used operating systems. We know all of the awesome things that they do will in that regard theory was gonna be monumentally more successful. That's assuming that it's <hes> right now because it's not and probably shouldn't scale for something that large the base blockchain of Ethingham even though it's capable of doing a lot of things it's not financially feasible to do those things so Waffen the night the only put very very very important things that you need that require that trust that you're willing to pay for that trust to put into it or lamb trust for that matter and so you end up with like basically a lot of business logic and the permissions around business logic being put into blockchain and everything else built on top of it around it and so that really oil oil is used for a lot of things she's it's more like financial oil forlorn oil foil that set right now with tap root all the soothing tapper ever makes it into the actual blockchain. It may be able to do similar type things <hes> it's just a lot easier and so I think it might shot up to your hashing it out on tapper. That was really really enjoyable and I have to listen to it again. Thank you if you're interested in what tampered is for Bitcoin. Go listen to that episode with Interpol's pollster but now it's getting some <hes> Beckham down core eating Sargasso groupies man people will be throwing their underwear Geez. It's it's explaining things with no words from the mouth of people who made it deesor N._p._R.. What's Your N._p._R.? Voice now. I sucked the exact said no my n._p._R.. Voice we just include a lot of soundbites and transitions from music welcome to all things hashed out a bunch of sound clips interview and not actual the person interviewing. I think if I think that's the difference between top tier podcast. Ask everything else if you could cut to music seamlessly top to your podcast if you can't. You're not it's up to podcasts Gresley going to be a D._J.. In a former life that's why that's why if you noticed I I cut to music immediately in the most is just the headers and that was some vulgar language Oh whatever but it was a rap song so love it <hes> yeah. I say we all do our best N._p._R.. Voice Right now. It's what I say. Although all star I'll start so today we wanna discuss a tweet by by the president of the United States of America <hes> Donald Trump and what he said was bitcoin is for doctor doom actual meet some some word yeah yeah because somebody like do a slow do some mellow saxophone noises in the backgrounds of I can I end up ends. Donald Trump tweeted what did donald trump tweet Avila. We'd have memorize three tweets discuss. Thus I responded to one of them in a very worthless for worthless now he's not responding. Bitcoin is bad so is labor. You gotta be a bank. That's good -Til D._R.. Car If he tweets ridiculous shit every hour though but because drawn between this tweet was impossible because tweet so ridiculous she right so just because he mentions bitcoin the Areola in this space has the dissect it but the fact is he's already forgotten about that tweet and so's everyone else who isn't in the space of true not to get overly political but he should be allowed to do that well at Mellon saying the the one thing I will say about Donald Trump and it's the only thing I will say he is not following social norms of past presidents like if the president shouldn't speak at this rally while he's going to if the if typically by tradition he should act this way he doesn't. That's a double allege sword though because he's media yen let you imagine a seventy year old a seventy year old being that proficient even if it's someone else doing it for him he he's still he understands. <hes> medium by which he can connect with his detractors and his supporters the seven year old you gotta gotTa throw some respect to that you know every year respect but what I will will do is say that we've crossed bridge before in history and this is what happens you don't learn your lessons but a president is not supposed to <hes> any state like the entity they're not supposed to own like a media entity for this this reason because they have direct access to bunch of people and they can manipulate information we cross bridge before and so what my generation's probably GonNa have to do when we get old and gray is Megan's that president get you social media like this because this is him having his own news organization yeah but we hailed out yet I know but we learned last night and now now we're learning the rest and you say you don't WanNa be political but if you judge a fact or something that someone says based on who says it instead of what they do or what they say. It's just like you know someone complains. Oh look at what Obama's wife did of when trump's life does it. It's fine I mean who does it shouldn't matter so if someone adopts social social media and they're seventy years old. I think that's a plus no matter how bad trump is on so many other things was I'm saying media is when he became president is when the switch should stop and that's when the switch stopped for Obama he started tweeting from the White House account like a true professional would he wasn't tweeting from his personal account. When you become an entity of the state your twitter shuts down until you're until your tenures over that should be the rule because you shouldn't be allowed to personally tweet things that affect the state of the union spoken by Black Dress? You should shut your personal twitter down mm run the White House twitter account you can do whatever the fuck you want from the White House twitter account. If you WANNA be that irrational but your personal twitter none no no no. We voted you in your for us now. That shuts down you tweet from the White House account or MRS is not political podcast. Even though I would not a political Passo I do the tweets in front of me that are in question Yay read those tweet trying to steal you can do this n._p._r.. Voice Beer tweeted by Donald J trump July eleventh two thousand nineteen. I am not a fan of bitcoin in other crypto currencies which are not money and whose value was highly volatile based on thin air unregulated crypto assets can facilitate facilitate unlawful behavior critic trade and other illegal activity this led to another tweet by Donald J trump on July eleven dot dot similarly facebook Lebron's virtual currency virtual currency and quoth. We'll have little it'll standing or dependability facebook and other companies went to become a bank. They must seek a new banking charter. It becomes subject to all baking regulations. Just like other banks both national DOT DOT COM which leads to another tweet which I don't have any more so oh. He doesn't know how a bank works. He doesn't even know anything tweeted back on his first one. I don't expect anyone with your record of email and phone used to have any comprehension of asymmetric geography much less bitcoin recant expect him to get right. It doesn't get anything like his actions that he does just dealing with the security of his own position and and the like guess national secrets is so abysmal that there's no way you can even think he's going to comprehend the basics of help bitcoin works and why is white matters but when you did he put it in Zaidi bryce happy and what he also doesn't notice facebook's been applying end receiving banking licences and money servicing money service business you know money's espy's M._s._p.'s across the globe. They've been doing that for like. I don't know six or seven years now now so that you fight but facebook isn't going to be taking part in the Federal Reserve System. They're not going to be cashing checks or issuing debit. Cards are holding customers funds so yet it will the Xiaomei single entity that has created control the crypto currency that has a banking license for that purpose. Why would face with any different facebook literally? Has You can get credit. You can get a debit card or you can lease. Put Your Debit Card in there and get like pay the breaking up store money as fabled any of that that I didn't catch that because that's because the government censoring him big issue that record a video I mean I'm talking in the context of Libra. I mean if you have a facebook debit Carter losing life anyway I'm just talking about this is very much along the lines of what the future of Cryptos GonNa look stuck in my opinion regardless of his lieber something else or how long government will stifled progress is reality will part of a part of cryptocurrency like the thing is like maybe that's the case and lets people get censored on that platform. They realize there's another booker AC- where you can't get censored on. I'm just get passed around but it's like if it's for people who don't really need censorship resistance and they're probably gonNA use that yeah yeah. It's GonNa be a interesting interesting interesting next decade. I know that for sure so <hes> I think it's it's gleaning though I think like like I said at the top of the show Brian Jeevan locked because now the state is cognizant of the the threat. It's a threat that bitcoin has towards their power on that that marriage between money in the state eight and they realized like Oh and then I'll man Wayne you might know who was the guy <hes> too much happens in a week there <hes> I think he's worse for the Fed and he will or central bank and he said <hes> yeah it looks like with the introduction of cryptocurrencies we could go back to time where there are many different currencies here the Federal Reserve what they were go chair the Federal Reserve and I don't know the guy's name but <hes> he called it both a store value and something else <hes> that was like pre telling that one. I guess he believes that Bitcoin is these things he doesn't understand bitcoin or who does and ah I I'd like to know the content his level of understanding to then put weight behind him sayings things but like it's pretty big for their even talking about it. They're saying these things they're in. They're treating it like it's money like they're treating it like compared it to gold and called stored value as what he did and that's a pretty big thing for the chair of the Federal Reserve an old seventy year old dude probably say that type of stuff even even in the midst of the comparison you can't make if we talking later terabytes all good Holla Holla Holla <hes> allow. There's a lot of white noise now. It's fun of my okay. <hes> there is something that I would like to do we saw submitted deary for awhile and that is give a shoutout to the people that deserve becoming patrons. Yeah sorry my computer's loading of now but I'm getting there <hes> just just GonNa stop do some general shouts <hes> cannon the Slack Wilkin the slack. Thank you for a while and outlast Sunday. I appreciate it. <hes> who who else five two K. two five are what's in there <hes> Andy <hes> Jesse Joe who'd you say stop the tragedies of spell stalker and lead speak. Oh stocker elite okay. We'll stalker showed up to you. Jess visit anybody we should have a Patriot on only channel in the slack that they're invited to there and then that way it's new level yet great and I'm glad you guys are picking up. What I'm putting down the Segue we will be revamping patriotic tears very soon so beyond the heads out for that at this point the <hes> sees me and we do we will revamp them those of you that are owed flaming hot cheetos will be getting those Tito's <hes>? Nobody's like emailing us like where's the Cheetos at breath on the contrary my friend. I'm the one monitoring that and we get several complaints. Now we do that what you're like. I know I know I was. I just wanted to get see if I could light a fire yells ass because we've people cheetos for like a year so so we it does flaming hot cheetos out to the patrons <hes>. Let's GonNa make somebody's Day one day. They get that stuff. What's in this box flaming hot cheetos? Oh my God <hes> <hes> a can of booty sweat <unk> <hes> we had so we asked a new patrons <hes> thank you events Gibbs Mike Foster in on a NYLA NYLA en la an Iowa. I think I'm saying that right a Nyla some slack Intel yeah come on into the slag join us for the Combo but anyways always now back to cerium corey. Did you check out that <hes> tourists project that linked a few times this week okay so get it take your privacy you should up in pieces. Give different random pieces to the main <unk> off against the authenticating services that exist today and then when you log into to adapt I guess the debt you tell the debt I m e adapt Ping's the authentication services. They send the pieces that they have you say yes. This is my private key then you get into the DEP. Is that a good process and supposedly it's it's. They got a bunch of funding from Queen base from Google like you then you're you're basically relegated your ability to log into Dallas to fail well. If anyone of those services fail so depending on how they do it. It's naive just sin literally not like non redundant bits of pieces to every every every service then if one of them fails you can't reconstruct your original private Keitel again sell so basically you'd have to have redundancies in depending on how it depends on how it works. It's a cool idea. I think there's better ways to do it not rely on third party services whatsoever. You're like it sets. It seems like it's a convenience tool. That doesn't need to exist. We should be building better technology not technology the relies on kind of a trader security and privacy offer convenience technologies but what my my my the owners defending in I think it's a good ideas because what security is if you're just breaking up your privacy into a bunch of pieces in Krypton those visas and sending them to a service who where's the security I mean the only thing is happens is like you said if those services go down. You can't long into anything they've been collude right. I if it's encrypted not honestly this was brought to you by <hes> White Claw Alcoholic Beverages <hes> go to your nearest liquor store. Pick up a bottle of white claw. Isn't that for girls. Maybe I have no idea with young people do anymore. Core set Eliason <hes> <hes> yeah. There's like so here's the thing is <hes>. This is just a P._S._A.. For the audience if you're drinking zero calorie alcohol <hes> <hes> you're GonNa get cancer so you you should stop doing that young kids you should maybe just modern drink regular alcohol moderately but this is a p._S._A.. From D. not but we got somebody back in it's just me I was no point guard vein I was I was giving a p._S._A.. Because I was at the grocery store recently in Esau Zero Calorie alcohol and so what I would like to say to the young people listening into the show is if you are drinking that profusely you are setting yourself up for cancer later in life because you should not have zero calories and alcohol. There is some crazy as science going into that so <hes> be careful out there young people <hes> you're white claw your Alkali Seltzer water. I don't know how that's even possible and sorry when you don't know how we got on that tangent but it happened. I guess I'm here. Let me take a guess so you're talking about organic foods organics certifications but what are you really getting at the blockchain concert defy thing so you marry the organic deed with the blockchain verification and then you get to alcohol. I need to be able to verify the alcohol is really really good and calorie-rich rich <hes> in reality corey sitting needed to sneeze. I said his sneeze was sponsored by White Claw and that's started so so you forgot Gamer girl selling or bathwater water and Corey selling and advertising sneezes is taking advantage of my seizing the cells chiller. Did you buy that game regrow water. I thought about it. I wouldn't know what to do with it once I got do I drink it. Do I splash it on my face. I would actually use it to Brian Chicken and Peter to your enemy yeah Wayne Should T._b.. bathwater be a Patriot volunteer with entice mode diesel bisher. All our bath waters or is it. Is it a visit bathwater with all of us in it. No no no no no. I'd rather that'd be patriae on cheers so when you guys cry you bottle that and you so I never cry. I like what you did there. That's that's not or if you're getting that for me. I quite frequently watching movies. Sometimes I watch what's that movie with Matthew mcconaughey where he goes into space the notebook interstellar interstellar say the notebook notebook. Sometimes I watch interstellar just to cry. It's why do that to the actual show conversation that brought this up <hes> get exercise the ducks or apparently using distributed key generation scheme with a bunch of different stakeholders in the network including a lot services and so you need like five out of nine or to reconstruct the original. It's an depending on how they do. It could be interesting solution but I still don't like depending on other people to be honest shouldn't have to depend on people to reconstruct things unless unless it's like a chosen people you depend on so more social network graph of people you depend on to reconstruct keys you had like a way to recovery freak a key which like a friend family recovery. That's something that's useful. Relying on third parties not relying on the savage third part is not something I want to keep doing or keep North Korea. I remember I remember hearing about rivets from you and that had to do with key management or at least key storage would are they related to custodial services as well or is that completely different for for came in. I liked rents because they were. Ex there there are utilizing trusted execution environments that do a lot of things they were building <hes> displays so like when you did these operations with keys you will always did it from trusted execution environment on a screen built inside that environment that couldn't be tampered with by an operating operating system or rooted device. That's why I liked them. <hes> the reason for rivets is I have to go back and look at maybe maybe different. I think if if it is relying on a third party to do things depending on what that is if it's holding my keys that's not what I want ever made a blows me. I take that back and blows is slang. I found this out on the east coast for this is perplexing to me. Some used it the other day this man that blows me and I said what Rosemary Life Yeah they did. They take out the other words but what blows me is that some of these giant entities aren't like dedicating a lot of or maybe they are and we just don't know dedicating a lot of research and development to some of these decentralize applications in order to lower their costs like facebook pays an inordinate amount at year just a to store information like if you could store and a decentralize way in like not have to pay all this money for electricity and not have to pay people to come in and make sure the servers don't go down and <hes> admins and all the slew of people let you need just to store information like you'd think they'd be bending over backwards at the opportunity to try to or maybe that's what they are doing. Libra net desert a US at that a long time for the longest time. Is that like that's helped most institutions are going to adopt I to figure out how they can make their back ends more efficient so they don't have to pay for things so that usually increases their margins so he could do two things can we can increase their margins or they they can pass that ah savings onto the the the customer re. I think we understand which ones actually going to happen yeah <hes> and especially if it if it allows them to take out removed humans from oversight because humans are occur subject to failure so if you can make something that's automated and trustful and you can trust it to work as intended about having in it's of no human judgment on things and it works really well. You're going to do that because it's more efficient you can rely better <hes> so that's what institutions are gonNA end up doing by taking new technology and seeing how it makes their back ends more efficient bitcoin and aren't doing that. They're trying to create something brand new that takes humans out of the equation terms of who controls gender like money supply or value and the question of the hours. How do we make all this cool shit? That's cool to us. nerds words exciting to everyone where we all draw the blink. That's that's where the blank is drawn crypto kitties. We're supposed to do but anyways go ahead. I thought that's what Crypto kitties we thought it was GONNA do that. was that was just an embezzlement scheme people. I don't understand why big yeah that actually introduced the concept of N._F._C.'s which has been fantastic for the <hes> people reading new use cases on a theory amid learning how you can do stuff smart contracts and also the Steiner's standardization of non fungible tokens digitizing real world assets in such a large case for things like supply chain <hes> that was a good standard to make <hes> but it also makes games like you can make trading card games which is like God's unchained is just released waste a Beta. You can buy packs of cards now so you're like magic gathering hardstone things like that. It's a basely N._F.. T based card game like that. You'll be able to play which is really really nice because you if you own cards is in a tease and the markets are train. Those things becomes really really easy to do and you also will stare singers approvable scarcity. That's dangerous. Let's let's dangerously. Awesome is what I'm saying. Is that if that because popular <hes> you basically got an entire economy on and there's a lot of shadowy shit that can go down in there but also it's like powerful because those trading card games are addictive and they've they've got a pretty good team behind them in terms of game makers because you if you don't get the rules right on that like if there's power creep or like an imbalance part of the game at gets manipulated into the game won't be very fun and it won't be used which means if people aren't using it than the value those cards is that it's going to be nothing <hes> mm-hmm so people actually have to use it for any value flow into it is incredibly important for that and that's one thing that a bog chain based game especially if you can take things and moving into others that's one of the things that you know that collectible type token for Gamers a lot of them have been chatting about that. You know you make an achievement in game one well because it's a a collectible type of token can then that achievement can be actually used in another game and it will allow for people to Cross pollinate inventory cross pollinate experience so that you know the seven hundred hours you put into game a can actually be used as an elite status and game be and and and so it's it's kind of like you know Marriott saying hey. If you've Got Hilton Status we'll give you will match the status so I can see that in facet vastly increasing the competitive nature between the game makers. I was worried about that. It's very difficult to get that balance right so bad become the if you think about how farming happens in world of warcraft he's the longtime ago chains farmers basically just mighty golden selling it through ruled out for real world online so people could skirt the actual work of doing things that you have cross I fortune cross cross game value flow than the concept of of mining or grinding out a game to get to a certain status becomes like across Multiple Multiple Games James Your if if that balance isn't correct you'll have one person playing a game only to grind out a certain amount of value to the transfer to a different game. That's the only purpose that game and said like as a gamemaker. That's stupid. I wouldn't want someone to do that. Although you could argue that the successful game but not for the red why any gamemaker whatever make it actually cares about games that exe- that exact same mechanic is why taking off my theorem had this episode and saying that is what holds a theory back with Tokens Tokens. That's what holds their back when it comes to all these tokens say one token becomes the token that is the thing that does the things that people like will everyone's going to be not using the other tokens and just quote unquote farming being them in in like trade to trade up into the other usable token so that's no correlation yeah if if it's easy to manipulate to do something like that yeah but someone would argue that that market is actually like helps find equilibrium. I think it's very it's very similar to frequent flyer miles and credit card miles so you know they're they're all competing for each other hotel points. The airline points well. You know united is really really trying hard to make sure that you get the most for your point so that you're not taking an American flight for a Delta flight but then the credit cards like don't worry about your flight your airline file miles house. Why don't you just get city points chase points or American Express points Titi? It's a city city Titi points. He said C._B.. Early morning yeah well. That's for Modem and T._D._y.. People right you know and the T._y.. Port for people talking about what it has no today's I <hes> yeah I mean this is that's one giant game. I would say that the credit cards are better option. They're smart perseverance but anyways <hes> because you can use it in multiple places right absolutely the actual economics is worse for you. In terms of percentage of <hes> you mean go go to the points guy and and looked at some of the travel blogs to see how to maximize get bonuses. That's how you try to gain the system but you know getting rewarded worded for your loyalty is something to factor in and that's what the chain loyalty points or four but you know just utility you go for the credit cards now. If you take that the blockchain and games it it would be similar where E._A.. Is Likely GonNa have E._A.. Points and Microsoft is going to have Microsoft points and you'd be soft is going to have ubisoft points but you know they're gonNa want to keep your loyalty. I WanNa talk about that for justice again before we start wrapping and that is of all these companies not if when all these companies have tokens what's and put my theory of back back on their all E._R.. See something tokens isn't the fungibility of those Tokens GonNa be 'cause then at then they have this essence of security because of tokens are going to be more valuable than other tokens and they represent some sort would've value. That's tangentially connected to whatever entity that made them doesn't necessarily Mika security homeowner <hes>. I said I didn't say a security as in essence of security you you know it's that's a little stocky is not just a little bit okay. <hes> that's the phrase that's the tee-shirt. It's a little stocky well as as empasis doc ID because you can trade your your cell phone minutes for money food. No no no that's share of accompanying issues yeah it doesn't but it Kinda China's like they're still this chain. I mean cello says it all the time like these companies aren't doing any products their tokens not worth anything because they're not doing anything. Will that's GonNa be the connection that most people have is that these tokens represent some sort of value proposition from whatever entity that made them. They're not going to be the associations that we have that. They're going to be that association and so when you do that though doesn't mess with like see. This is why I just there's gotta be oil because that's it could do too many things and like one east one ether is has one person's ether has different value than another person's either nor doesn't will because what if one person no doesn't. You're right there fungible as well as long as there's a market the the I._C._O.. Funding Capability was because you had a collectible token. You could say this one is mine and we're going to associate this token with you and that's that's how we're going to do that and then you know we're GonNa swamp later Yeah Yup. I want to end on time. Love a quiz that happened on twitter that image goons severe re tweeted and said if you don't get this right you know or you should not be able to vote on Bitcoin blockchain size or any other network parameter associated with the blockchain and the quiz is a very interesting <hes> give you the questions for is about Bitcoin outworked so the quizzes one thousand tiny transactions CINDE total of one B._T._C. to address a all right so address say has the total of one bitcoin that was gotten there from thousand tiny transactions then send the one B._T._c. from a to address be the for the A to b transaction is is what huge or tiny it's a is tiny doesn't depend on what has been previously sent to know a thousand transactions go into a and those those are U._t.. a-x-i-o-s and when I learned bitcoin years ago you had to summarize all those you have to take all those and send the transaction because you can't send one bitcoin you have to send all the thousand transactions and but I know there's been advances you know and I don't know if those advances helped with that so the answer is huge. Those are curious because of what Wayne said and there are not advances yet schnorr signatures will help with us. I tremendously but they're not there <hes> so right now. If you great a transaction and Bitcoin you're not just sending something in your wallet. You're sitting references to previous transactions that have hit your wallet in this case one thousand tiny transactions and those are called inputs. Take you textile unspent transaction output. which is what you receive from somebody? That's the Yuchiengco set is the state of all unfit bitcoin which is owned by people if you wanted like to current events like the craft a transaction you then reference reference all the U._T._a.. Does that you want that. Add Up to the amount that you'd like to send those your inputs then you specify outputs usually to one to the person you'd like to spend to like to send money to and then a change address that sends bat since the arrest back to yourself you can then craft you can do whatever you want in terms of outputs to do to pay multiple parties into other things things like that but the essences if you'd like to send an amount of bitcoin you have to add up all of the does that have been previously sent into you to match that amount or more in this case everything transaction to to me. It's like anybody who pays you always pays exact change and when you pay someone else you have to use only what you've been given correct so if someone gives you a dollar and someone gives you one hundred pennies you have two dollars and if you wanna give someone a dollar you can give them the one dollar that you've got but if all you have a hundred pennies you have to give that next person underpinnings for X. Yeah now but once you give it to them as one hundred pennies and one transaction they now have a dollar and they can send that one dollar on they don't have to send the one under trance one hundred eight when I was thinking why doesn't you can't change as a hundred pennies into a dollar. That's what he's saying. You have to pay a fee so at some point you have to pay the at some point you have to make the transaction that transfers one hundred pennies to a dollar now that transaction is expensive or sorry thousand transactions if we're talking about the quiz and to into one B._T._C. in order to do that you have to sign every single you check so that you're you're saying as yours that transaction gets very large and since you pay by the size of a transaction and bitcoin that transaction fee is really large so the more data you send the larger. The similar situation is associated per byte that that's what the fee is denominated him see I was under the impression that these thousands of tiny me transactions get like their badged in there in the new a person's somebody has noted for that. No the wallet handles the obfuscation of many to one for you and different wallets. Let's do it differently and then some wallets allow you to specify a fee and some all its specify feta start with and then add fee later and you know for example in electric and you can say send us with with no with you know you have a confirmed in twenty five blocks which means tiny tiny tiny fee but the isn't here's the fee like you know the boat on on Sharon. It's I'm gonNA charge you per personal and I'm GonNa Charge you. This many Santoshi's Toshi per byte and it wasn't segment the one that helped reduce the amount of signature space took to do that. No it's the same amount of space but they discount the space in terms of fees for signature data. Okay so it reduces the fee but doesn't reduce the signature cise now also does it does make the whole thing smaller by ordering it appropriately and so it's everything's ordered nicely which makes a big difference in terms of actual size <hes> but what's interesting here. Is the SCHNORR signature week Brecca. We've got another point now where like if you if you do something like this. It costs a lot of money because you have to include every single signature. What Schnorr signatures does is it turns all of those signatures into one signature which you can prove you own all those things which means that the actual fee or the size of the transaction goes back down to what would look like a normal transaction of one to one? That's the that's one of the powers of snarky matures one of the mini <hes> and why people are trying to get into it but for now that's a big deal and so if you don't understand this concept and you're debating blockchain block block side stuff then you you don't know what you're talking about. You should shut up. That's basically the point in between Syria's trying to talk about these things are subtle subtle and if you don't understand it did subtleties then veered just your your opinion doesn't have a lot of late yet any directly goes to very and do this directly goes to your success question and adoption because how do you how do you use bitcoin for tips. How do you use Michael Transactions? How do you use it when it takes ten minutes to get one confirmation and there's a certain percentage of transactions every day with with one transaction confirmation and it's invalid because it was part of an orphan block it happens every day so you need a minimum of two confirmations to be somewhat certain you really want six confirmations to make sure that they're so that kind of drawback for Bitcoin in terms of being you know easy money flow? You can't do micro transactions not what the fee structure the way it is. That's the point of lightning that's the point lightning should take over that type of use case on top of Bitcoin but it has it has good for me so you set up you set up a channel just to get one tip. You know one one tenth of a sent tip from somebody so you'd have to set up and infrastructure set up at set up a bigger channel and settle it whenever you know funded with enough bitcoin that of what you want to receive it's just obviously it adds a lot of burden to the receiver until it gets easier right. You know we're we're in the early early days of why coin but you know you're you're swapping off the blockchain verification right now for that speed but you also have to set up the channel you have to funded. You have to settle it later. I mean there's a lot of stuff on there. When you know why not use iota no fee tiny transactions very fast zero scare you something else right well but but for tips who cares because I'll get it I'll I'll I'll transfer it when I feel like it when it's big enough all the trade off the wall and handles it all and the thing is in reality the software is going to be doing all this Chela jets of the say yeah how many people who are many people listening to the show need to understand U._T.? Excels care about understanding it for adoption purposes. How many people are GonNa care that? You're not a lot of them but what's going to happen. Is that <hes> receiver say someone tries the naively we used for Michael transactions like when he was saying and they try and send that money in the fee is absorbed gently large more than what they want to send. They're going to like what the fuck is. I don't WanNA use this my only argument. We're not talking less people. Those people in essence are not our audience so if you're listening to the show and you got bored with all that China on U._T._S._A.. SOS please kick rocks. We're not talking is also the nursing by all of this and you don't WanNA listen to the fundamentals of this technology that everyone is raving about and you've seen the price grow five digit percentages in under a decade if you're not concerned with the fundamentals of technology works go kick rocks. I wouldn't betters lots of rapper wraparound Ezekiel rentals. There's there's lots of rappers talking about Kardashian. There's lots of COMEDIANS TALKING ABOUT WALMART GIFT cards in random conversations of your more interested in that stuff goal. Listen to those podcasts of <hes>. This is a podcast about crypto currency blockchain technology so so we do from time to time talk about the subtleties of why we are so excited about technology also <hes>. I got bored I should she credits a guy who gave that that twitter twitter poll or it's a poll or quiz on on twitter his username as J e._S._f.. Jacob Elliot's off via sof say his name Yeah. Thanks for that yet. I think it shows like if you look the results. It's <hes> look at the curb results. There are fourteen hundred and thirty-three votes and thirty seven percent say huge thirty two percent say tiny in thirty percent didn't vote they just said show results so it's almost half and half in terms of who actually voted yeah I mean I gotta Roy interpreted the question. I thought it was like Oh person a is ending one bitcoin the person be will they can set whatever they want. I didn't I didn't understand the subtlety so there you go so the the that will also impact adoption because people use wallets that don't let you specify fee like exodus. which is the prettiest Wallet Right? It's it's beautiful. It's easy to use it has the most coins on it. He might specify a fee. I wish I did schilling right now their job description posting I sold on them when I saw their job description posting about a year ago it was the best written job description ever it really I mean it said you know find a Typo in this in this job description and you know it. It was just it was amazing. That's what gets you off but intelligence smarts creative people okay I go there is that people will learn about these when they send their first transaction from exodus. Yes it is or any wallet that doesn't much you specify the because then they're going to realize that the fee was twenty twenty five dollars at that time and they're sending you know five dollars Bitcoin <hes> so okay wow this show just keeps going going. How do we explain the median fee dropping SOC so starkly the last time we were experiencing prices like this? The medium fee was super duper now. It's not so super duper well so you're talking about what you posted in the flack earlier this week right with the the price correlating to the fee immediacy and showing the men pool which it should have 'cause the the the fee has nothing to do with bitcoin's price. The fee has not nothing as a little bit to do but it mainly has to do with the mental sites and so what is reducing the simple size people not doing actually how how many people transactions but they were no I. I don't think so there's there's a user if you and here's how you contribute attributed the pool is one how many people are trying to submit transactions into how fast how many of those transactions you can fit into a single block per ten minutes and three the size of those transactions so if you have if if people are regularly sending pre segue transactions are going to be larger and so they're gonNA take up more space the blockchain and what a minor will do as they try and figure out what transactions during going to include from this giant batch of potential transactions people are trying to send is the order them by the feet they choose the larger fees because they get those if they win the block and so as that as that demand for getting into a block grows as people should keep trying to use system <hes> the average fee of what you need to do to get into the next block grows because you have to beat out everyone else and that takes into account a hell of minor chooses just to order transactions as up to the minor but typically they order I on price and then on how much it's GonNa take they try and optimize how much money they can take they can make so if they can fit the most large fee segue transactions into a block. We're GONNA make the most money on that block if they win it. Currently average transactions annually are higher than they were during the last moon in twenty seventeen and the media. You're doing annual. You're doing annually yeah. I'm looking confirmed transactions per day. The number of daily confirmed BITCOIN transactions right now. I'd say the average it somewhere around three hundred seventy five k. back in twenty seventeen. The height was three hundred fifty five K. so I mean arguments still stands the adoption of the technologies driving. These costs down that we've been so where everything is going just as planned. I don't understand why there's mass hysteria every other week in crypto famous cheaper Janas. I mean as though I don't get it but that's that's just me not giving it so I think the highest as transactions per day that's ever been on the big network was close to five hundred thousand news. I can't really click on the resolutions bad on this graph at that back. Dams like an order of cheaper four hundred ninety thousand one hundred ninety thousand the highest been this year is four hundred fifty two thousand in a day. I mean I think part of that it. Is You know it. There was segue. There were the <hes> the debate there but there's more wallets now that allow people to specify their fee. There's more people aware that they can send something with the lower fee. I mean I I. I hardly ever do something within one block to block five blocks for ten bucks if I don't care when it gets there if I'm not doing time today's payment I'll do it. Twenty five blocks fee on transaction and so what it's doing is it smoothing out the graph half so it's Kinda like with with climate change people will look at the highs instead of the average and and use that to make a point well. If the average transaction the average number transactions every day is is higher but you're looking at the peaks that is not saying how many actual transactions went through and a time period whereas with more people having more knowledge about how to more efficiently send their transactions actions for example using a segue compatible while it using a lower fee and just letting go whenever and maybe using replaced by fee to accelerate it later. You'RE GONNA have a higher average transaction but a lower our set of peaks because you're you're squishing and doing that graph and so that's why I said that kind of data is either intentionally misleading or the person who posted it doesn't really understand how bitcoin fees work because it has nothing it has to do with the price and more to do with how busy the network is at any given time man this could keep going and going but we call this this show Donald trump and climate climate change tumble trump climate change so we're going to do have S._E._O.. Let's let's just how to sell your sneezes how to sell you sneezes to be good name of the show so I guess we I need to wrap up. Jelly you in a sprinkle in some flavor on this yeah. We're <hes> we're doing a lot of stuff for always doing a lot of stuff and that's different this week. <hes> patriotic like we mentioned is gonNa be edited edited in refined. The slack is on the website the link in that's always popping off. There's not a time where I'm not checking my phone and there's like three hundred missed messages so it's very active community Aaron will yeah getting fit in. There's a lot of channels <unk> a lot of discussions also on the website. There is a book that's on Amazon is very cheap. It's like ten dollars for ammo hundred fifty plus pages three years interviews where we ask everybody kind of matures gotTa Lotta Pictures Lotta pictures basically they're Kinda like their base level motivation for getting in the space on what they think about the space so it's a collection of that <hes> also you can find us on Youtube instagram <hes> twitter all good stuff new shows blocked by design should be launching <hes> they're. They're taking a very comfortable pace getting that out to make sure it's right. The quality is good good for you guys studio yeah <hes> so it is better than quantity. Hopefully it might be the best irst episode of any podcast ever made in the world will see <hes> and then hashing out dose of ether under <hes> is pumping out regularly so network is firing all cylinders. Please join absolutely what what what I like. This also says that as we grow and we're not making it a mystery that we always trying to grow our public channels are are gonNA be much more general <hes> an ad received some personal complaints from people as some of the greenery and foolery that goes on some of those so keep all of the Guna random. Let's try that random is the place you go go to speak your mind goon out crazy names language whatever you WanNa do barring nudity. We don't need to see pictures. Anyone's ex-girlfriends like what happened last year. You're all right which the we don't see that crazy shit are just keep the greenery in random oiler public channels like price talk general <hes> you know let's let's be I guess adults. I guess what will know will cause adult content is adult content but you get <hes> you get the idea what I'm trying to say <hes>. Let's see <hes> what else let's go. Oh Yeah I already did oh wait no jitter. Oh yes shadow to voice down here in the lovely Carl Lewis play <music> tastes yeah <music> awesome <music> <music> <music> <music>.

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The Bitcoin Podcast #294-Richard McDaniel aka NghtRppr

The Bitcoin Podcast

1:06:45 hr | 9 months ago

The Bitcoin Podcast #294-Richard McDaniel aka NghtRppr

"Now entering guy cast mandatory online. So Yeah Hello You're about to be hit with another one of a kind bitcoin. PODCAST interview view Today we're joined with. Oh Man Korea feel like. I'm honored honored to be joined by this person. Because he's he's been space longtime and Robert Richard mcdaniel Aka Night Ripper Aka Lord of War Aka. Og Of the OJ Aka. BITCOIN STACK IS SUPREME AKA TACO fruit. Taker you always wanted to. I just keep saying Aka I did. I did Richard Welcome to the show man. How you doing? I'm good. Thanks for having me. It's just started like this. This is even more fun to ask you. Why how did you get into this? And how long occupant in it and kind of give people quick introduction as like who you are yes so I heard about bitcoin. In in December of two thousand and nine. It was cross posted from the Cypher. PUNKS mailing list to the tour mailing list and the reason why is because they had just added support for tour to it and I thought it was a really interesting project I had been following the discussion around spam email for many years at even heard of Hash cash and penny black before and You know I kind of forgot about it for a couple of months and then six months later version three came out and I remembered about the project and I said Oh will this is going to be big so a new head to get some and the rest is history. There's so much there's so much rest they're got it. Yeah you're like real relic quite early. You were saying right before we got started like you were. You've been around since before the majority of the big names that are still relevant today. Kind of kind of yet My My bitcoin talk. Ide- is three sixty nine. Saito Toshi's is three Just means that I've been registered at those forms. Of Of course people had been following the mailing lists way longer than the forms at even been around. There is another popular form before Bitcoin Talk. But it's the oldest surviving one Are you greg right now. I'm kidding yeah no So do you have conversations with the Toshi at all before he took off or did you. Did you ever comment on any of his stuff or did he talk to you at all. Okay okay yeah I I kind of knew enough to be dangerous but it was all over my head. I was still a computer science student and trying to figure it all L. Out. I kind of understood the game theory part better than I did. That cryptography and I was a libertarian. So still am and that that kind of what drew me me too in the first place The the liberty dollar guy just got busted e gold was getting shut down. There is a lot of Uncertainty uncertainty around the legalities of that space. And that was I was more of a black hat. Hacker back then so that didn't bother me. Why like you did you? Were you were off the moderator or still are maybe in Dick Quite talk fun no I retired Yeah I was Politics section moderator moderator. which is a very thankless job in Especially since I tried to moderate it in in in a way that made sense for the politics section. I tried to make sure that there were no circular arguments like if page eight of the thread looked like page three at kind of just closed it down and of course that that made a lot of people mad because they were happy to sit there and argue forever but I was trying to encourage productive conversation and Eventually just got to be too much work for me so I just resigned. What what's that like? Was it like watching this stuff but blow up Kinda right like your been around early. Then you've seen seen all the ridiculous hype cycles from the beginning to where we are now and the kind of somewhat repetitive waves of people and their mentalities as they go through these cycles come in each time and and potentially different differentiations with each cycle. It was it like can you. Can you talk about a little bit. Yeah I think it's Similar to any technology. There's a a lot of early. High people are really excited to use it and then they try to deploy it to production and they they hit reality and realize it. A lot of the stuff isn't ready for prime time yet. It's very nation the. US is horrible. You gotTA use a lot of console commands so then reality hits them and third kind of interest wanes and tapers is often then it gets reignited again A lot of things is just technology. needs to catch up faster. Internet connections Moore. You know Moore's ars processing power larger hard drives. Were like far away like how so from then into now. Would you say that. There's been a lot of progress made or just a lot of high dollar lipstick on bigger piles piles of Shit like. Would you like wait a minute. I is it getting better or are we just like covering up the inefficiencies. He's better and better over top from technically. I think things are getting getting better But I think the biggest the biggest gains have been from the legality in the beginning. It was kind of seen as a bunch of hackers with a Ponzi scheme to the point. Now that it's no one owns it. It's more of a natural resource so governments are not really trying to shut it down the just trying to figure out how they can make use of it. Yeah I'm trying to make Moola off based on that. How do you see it? Yeah Hey moving forward within the next one to five ears Assuming that the government is performing its intended function. Where if the people want something? Then it's the government tries to give it to them or at least get other way and and make sure that everything is fair. I think the Bitcoin is in pretty good shape eight. It's kind of like the SEC's take on it. They just want everyone to have informed consent and make sure that they're playing by the same rules as everyone else. They're not really trying to be a king. Would you say you're like what would you say your maximalist Yeah I'm I'm a anything maximalist really I think we only need one internet. I don't WanNa have to get on a separate Internet talk to Russia. I only want one subscription service. I don't WanNa own Disney plus and Hulu Netflix. And all that I just want to go one place so yeah I am a maximalist. That being said there's plenty of reasons to use something other than Bitcoin. Only can. Bitcoin do what you WanNa do right now. And and if it can't then maybe tests net isn't really what you need. Maybe WanNa do something with real money and That's where other chains can come in. Would would you. This is a big question for our sponsors than Coca Cola Pepsi because if you only like one kind of colour yeah I questioned that You know the challenge. Is that a real thing. Do do people really care. I think I think people just like to be finicky. They just WANNA be able to say oh. I like this better than that breath there. Do they really care. Yeah Eh usually drive to the next town to get Pepsi. Will they actually drive there. I know my pops gets mad. At Pepsi like Biz by angry. That's assist but he's interesting interesting man so I guess so. Since you've been in Bitcoin this long. How big is your island no I I went through my new money as already? So very materialistic. Let's face I tried. tried to be the the Johnny appleseed so I gave a lot of it away early on and made a lot of silly trades I bought crisis two for ninety bitcoin stuff like that. Well that's like you had to have that because at the time it was a reasonable decision. Right like it's not you have to have people using it got to where it was or where it is. Yeah Yeah I I made the decision looking at where I thought bitcoin was going to go and I had a plan. There is a certain amount that I will. I'll never set sail. Excuse me there's a certain amount that I'll never sell I'm just gonNA pass that along. I don't keep that on me. Obviously for operational security but I I live comfortably. I can kind of just do whatever I want. I still keep a job because because I like coding and I like solving problems I kind of steer towards more philanthropic projects. The one that I'm working at right now is is trying to give Health care and other benefits. The hourly workers that traditionally don't get those kind of benefits so it's really rewarding to still work every day it is. It's Nice it's nice to be able to work. It's something that you're passionate about. As opposed to be maybe stuck get something that pays the bills. But you're not terribly fond of doing you. Just kind of an interrupt. They're like that type of freedom is something that a lot of people would would love to the have but it's very difficult to achieve. Yeah and I'm a senior software engineer so I'm highly paid anyways e even if I never got into Bitcoin and I've also made a lot of money off of other projects the the Lord of war pseudonym with is probably one of the more profitable ones. So what is what does that do I it was a I sold Solta bought for an Emo so you wouldn't have to grind. Oh Wow war. Fighter Glider was for world of warcraft and It was similar to that and the reason why I stopped releasing it as is the the reason why glider stopped because Blizzard entertainment sued them and won a lawsuit for six million dollars so the writing was on the wall that I needed to get out of there at Blizzard was definitely not happy with bought. I mean I think every single one of their game has had a rich bought economy behind it and the Quite a bit resources trying to stop it. Yeah and For me that would bother bothered me. Most was that they claim that cheating on video video game was a DMCA violation which is kind of kind of weird to say. The cheating at game is stealing the game. Yeah the AD doesn't make that doesn't make sense. So so what do you do. What are you doing crypto? Now you've been in so long. Are you just like a quiet quiet observer. You're just like oh just look at them go or are you still active. What do you do you actively doing if you are contributing Yeah I obviously You know I'm the CTO of Sixteen Thirty Digital Sa- blockchain fund but in the space itself. I've been involved with one project or another. I've built to bitcoin exchanges. I worked with Kevin Bombay. No he was seed round investor in crack in and armory wallet. We worked on a double entry bookkeeping system for Bitcoin to help you. Pay Your your bitcoin taxes. I think that it's been rebranded as coin tracking now I was coined reporting corn tracking dot INFO Yeah I've just yeah I think that's it that's great service yeah I worked on an updated version that used no jay S in angular and kind of those modern web technologies. I think it's still running on. HP Right now though gotTa love that is that your is that your over the over the years you've seen a lot of the technology change how and the experience of using crypto has changed dramatically dramatically dramatically drill gratitude massively dramatically since like even even before bitcoin talks started. I mean it's it's changed one. How like it's lower the barrier of people to get in which has up and downs but instead it's necessary for any type of adoption it's drastically increase the security of How you hold bitcoin and not lose it or any other digital asset associated crypto currency? Like has that been fun to to watch Tulsa that Experience Back Day of actually most of our I think most of our listeners. Nearly as old as the even the three of us explain how difficult it was to just use. Bitcoin and Sandra accents in the early days. Paradoxically it was very easy. Yeah this shit. It didn't take long for the blockchain to download. Yeah the the blocks for mostly anti so. It was really quick download There was even a little drop down in the BITCOIN. QT client called CPU mining. Then that did I use when I first got there started mining couple fifty bitcoin blocks but eventually that went away You couldn't export private keys yet. There were no HD wallets well. It's so that part that that really wasn't helpful. I think a lot of people lost their their early coins because of that and then Other other services started filling that gap army wallet was probably the first one used for like multi signature stuff. Adi's one of those people that deleted his wallet. Dot File Awesome plus coinage. It's Yeah I did. I did lose them. They're so easy though. Felt like you didn't know existed application. You couldn't export it so it wasn't like you had to basically you didn't know what the backup and a lot of ways. How does it was in a hidden folder? It when you make a mistake like that. It's one of those like And then it takes several rows Osborne to sink in. Because you're just looking like yeah. This is not these buns aren't looking like they used to. I remember the day I remember the day I said because we live together. We were college and I'm sitting on my computer and he walks in like. Hey Man I can't find light coin. We lost coin. I just I was cleaning my computer. Getting rid of some old old space some space and I deleted the application data folder. And I can't I calf I'm going fucking what footmen the irony was. I'm trying to make space for fuck doc in open bizarre because I didn't have any room in my hard drive so I was like I. Will I gotta make some room a hard. Drive for more crypto shit and then boom lycoming going gone so that was fun. Not Fun became from so Do you have right now. I think you kind of set it early interview interview but is I guess reiterating like right now things seem like they're gonNA Stable out for cryptocurrency like it's not Threat the government's it's just something that exists and something that will continue to exist if you if you mean if you had to put on your wizard captain think of what the future look like. There's no longer a threat emanating threaten. Then it really depends on on government. I can't predict government's GONNA GONNA act but as far as our government. It seems pretty friendly. It's it seems so you know. We just want informed consent to make sure that everyone knows that that the risk involved in Bitcoin at like for example any moments that there she could come back and just claim Mullis goings and now the markets crash. You probably wouldn't do that but you know that's just one of the risk that you have to disclose to people and as long as people understand that that and can weigh that risk and there's no reason why not to let them do what they want with their own money. What about the regulation of of how to pay taxes? I think that's the main thing that people at businesses complain about a worry about and bills the reluctance to use it like business business activities because how you tax is difficult to understand and then in Even though there is software and better accounting systems to help keep track of actual transactions answers to pay taxes on is getting better. It's still not very robust. And so because that's not something that's standardized in a useful it. We've lost that large of adoption because people are just afraid to do it because they would like to say good citizens of whatever jurisdiction there. Yeah there needs to be more guidance and there definitely needs to be legislation so that small transactions. I don't require that kind of information You shouldn't be have to check the price every time you buy a cup of coffee just to see what your gains are. It certainly makes you it. You're going to do that anyway. kind of right especially with with with an asset like Bitcoin My tendency to spend is very related to the current price of whatever it is. I'm spending because it's so volatile right now like I tend to spend more when the prices are up and I tend to not spend so much on. The prices are down and if that's going to become the backdrop of how a lot of people pay for things from day to day than one is going to make us more like the rest of the world and turns the United. It's eight because we don't think about money like that but it's also going to be more difficult or like Something that aren't aren't going to want to do. Yeah something like Anything under five hundred dollars. You don't have to even calculate that that gain that would be great. Oh Man I'm so I just think that's reasonable to add a miniature freak out and I was like associate yeah coin basis reporting things now so then I went on coin base now I got my like tax information and it was like such a range of emotions from what I saw I was like. Wow they're tracking a lot of shit. That was like my very initial thing. I was like Whoa. They're tracking a lot And then the the second thing was oh I guess ev- even log on the coin based in breathe every excel and inhales a taxable event. Because what the fuck like everything that goes in and out all is a taxable event and the other not so then I got no way of knowing and I angry there so I was like Whoa fuck now. I'M GONNA have to go talk to my senator. I guess and then I looked at it then I looked at everything okay. It's actually not that bad but it was just a lot to take in. It does need. I mean it needs some guidance because I I went on read it in looked at this even further in there so many threads right now people who are flipping open out. 'cause they're like I don't know what to do with all this do. I owe millions of dollars in taxes. And it's just like no this. It's not it's it's it's just it's it's very hard to figure out what you're GonNa do that now and they need to make it easier so not a question. I'm just the APP. So and they've scared a lot of people a lot of people with the IRS. Question just it. Do you ever even traded in Crypto. Doesn't matter if you've made any money or or how much or even with it was we need to put you on. A list is basically what the question is your. Can we flag you and and you know five years later. If we see you have a lot of money. We're just GONNA go and do fishing expedition on you. Yeah they're they're trying to catch people slipping because if you say no to that but coin base at the same time time is reporting that you do and then you're screwed I think that's they're going to be like ooh checkmate. gotcha bitch so yeah yeah. It's tax fraud if you sign that thing. You're saying that you know it's it's accurate information at work for blockchain company. I'm not going to be able to not sign that thing. Yeah I'm GONNA try that. I run the BITCOIN podcast network. That's probably not gonNA fall in court like what's Bitcoin coin. This is your face on the cats. No it's not a liar. So are there other. Recruit other crypto currencies. They kind of got year Bits jubilee other than Bitcoin when you read about them Oh yeah definitely the Lithium was was one of the first ones I. I'm really excited about that. It's just a new paradigm of of computing. The way that you can have The public state out there. And you don't have to. You're running code and you don't care who's running it you don't care if it's on as your or Google or uh aws. It's just run this code and I don't care who's running it so I think that's that's a game changer. As far as just How you think about L. Programming and for me I always kind of asks to the first question is will? Why don't you just use bitcoin? So if your ideas like something plus money any and you're trying to use another token for money then I just kind of ask. Why don't you use bitcoin? It's the best money right now in then. If you can't do what you WanNa do with Bitcoin then I ask wire using a theorem and then I go from there. So if you have a good use case for your own blockchain Some of them are just kind of grandfathered in like excite. They've just been around since two thousand fourteen. It made sense for them to have their own blockchain in their white paper. They claim that they're going to go to a two way pig side chain someday some day but the the Co founder lately has said that. That's insecure. I've been pressing him to figure out why that's insecure. But he hasn't responded on that and I'm still trying to get a debate going between him and Paul Stork is a really smart guy. came up with the drive chain concept. They've take definitely been around. been around for a very long time. I remember going. Let's say three years ago there were start to grow quite a bit at one of the consensus is the first token token summit in New York and they were all over the place put guards and I've ever taken that they had a chance for a what right what I considered the storage wars at that time. Jeb Storage Sia swarm and I've tried all vie for the same thing I I think it's funny that I'm not terribly shirt. Any of them have one yet to help drive chain. Yeah I think they have the they have the best game. Theoretical will framework so far that where Making a contract with someone and updating and uploading a file to them incurs. A cost on your end. So you don't WanNa just sit there and upload to people all day long and then they just disappear because that's that's a denial of service attack so you need to have that that incentive to make sure that if someone forms a contract with you and takes your file that they actually want to store it and the and it's going to be stored so that's why you have collateral and I think the last thing that they need is some sort of proof of burn so that you can't have a civil attack where you pretend that you're like fifty different nodes but you're just one one node and that would reduce your redundancy if you send that file thinking you're sending it to fifty different people but it's the same person than you just lost redundancy. So that's kind of the next next thing that they need to implement but I think they're they're they're far ahead of the game as far as the game theory part and even the the working application part like they're starting to stream four K.. Videos directly off the network without downloading the blockchain. That's pretty hot. I'll wait. I feel like you're so locked in by this a one. I don't drive chain is I feel like I should and Dan I don't and to Howie streaming videos. That the seems like that's impossible. I need educating police sir. Yeah I I. I don't know the details memorize them. But it's I've seen the proofs of it. The people have actually really done it. There's some sort of of adapter layer or something like that Okay I'll be looking into that. Yeah they had a one point six million dollar investment by Bain capital to The they own Dunkin doc in doughnuts and Burger King and a bunch of other stuff. They're one of the largest private equity firms I would love to see you know. How do they plan on getting their money? Back because you know nebulous. They have CYA funds. I don't I'm not sure if you're aware it is but it's kind of it's actually a to coin chain there's coin where you pay for follow contracts and you get paid for storing files but there's also cya funds where you get a percentage of each contract as a fee so Nebulous they crowd funded Selling ailing cya funds in the early days. But they still own most of them but The you you don't make a lot if you even if you own a science fund right now you. You're not getting many Cya coins per day. So it'd be interesting to see how they plan on making their money back. He says of early said Bitcoin. When is the best money right now? There's a lot of people that would disagree with you. what do you say to those. Oh yeah well I would say that we needed to find. You know the term best because I I wouldn't wanNA even start a debate with with that kind of vague definition so yeah we would probably spend the first thirty minutes arguing over with with the best money would be an and I would argue liquidity and so actually actually. Bitcoin isn't the best money right. Now it's the best digital money trust less money the non best non Fiat money but it's you know. US dollars probably probably the best right now. Please offer saying that. Yeah you're done courses over. Yeah I mean you you not wrong. You're very right. USD is highly liquid Just a lot of people that I think I just got into believe believe it or not I got new beef with Mr Kenneth Bosak Two weeks ago where He said. I'M GONNA poser. He called composer. He called me poser. Because I don't use bitcoin cash He was like I live in breathed. This crypto Shit Bro. And all right now. I can't use bitcoin as money. I got these bitcoin cash. You're just oppose it and I was like okay. Alright had defend that out. I mean defended by saying like well. You don't have the authority over how people use their money in. What money is and I use bitcoin all the time? So here's the here's the problem with that argument in my opinion. Is that shirt. If you're talking talking about you know spending twenty bucks hundred bucks a day. That's fine if you WANNA move millions you WANNA buy million sell millions. You're not gonNA key to do that with mini coins without drastically moving the Underlying the price of that token that's meant to be much liquidity right like Bitcoin. There is no match for the amount of liquidity and Bitcoin period. CERIUM is doing okay. But it's still. I still argue that. She tried to move a tremendous amount of a stadium in the market. It would move the price significantly more but much more significantly than Bitcoin I'd say I mean what is your opinion on that. You've you've worked help. Helping make exchanges at imagine you understand some markets pretty well just based on the software that runs them know that in also liquidity liquidity. I mean you know number of trading partners to not just one person with a lot of money but as being able to go in and spend it so yes sure are you can find a couple of places. It'll do some really quick zero confirmation. BITCOIN cash transactions but try going around town and spending it even in a in a big town. You're not gonna find that many places where you will find people that you know. They've just heard bitcoin and they're just ready to the jump and they've been meaning to try it right and you're you have some bitcoin right now that you want to spend with them so they're going to go ahead and and you know onboard right now just to make that happen. You're not gonNA find that with Bitcoin cash or you're so Toshi's vision or any of these other ones now. What I see what I have seen? I've never really followed through it because I I got tired of seeing it L. constantly see if I can read like Oh now spender whatever coin in ten thousand locations via this service or whatever right right and so it seems as though there's a tremendous amount of people in basically every based chain trying to help help the adoption by providing some service that links to the traditional infrastructure. So that I can so they could pay hey with whatever coin and go to the local like POS system use some card or whatever are tap their phone and buy something you think that tapping into that infrastructure is the right move for gaining massive adoption across across a chain or is it or is it like changing behavior based on the ideals that the underlying crypto currency you had probably mixed On one hand. It's getting more exposure to bitcoin but on the other hand it's an it. You're not really using bitcoin. You're just selling it on the spot. What and then using Fiat moving that around so in some sense? It's not. It's not helping what you really want. Is You want people to take bitcoin. And and then turn around and hold onto it until they need to spend it say you know bills or whatever and then it becomes a closed loop and that's win. The value starts increasing. Because everyone's holding it now and the the supply has dropped We're far away away from that but not too far. I got a lot of these that on Bitcoin. Now so Lewis. Mickey d's deserve metric mansion on teens. He's they they're they're they are wise in elderly and if they're locked in like that that says something so What would be so seen as you are? Og of the OH. Jeez what would be something that could happen to Bitcoin That would make you like elated. A change I I know that when at least when I got into bitcoin shortly after like like two years after you did it was. I was so excited because bitcoin had this opportunity. Oh if something else comes along it's programmable money will just soft fork in we're going to have this ultra currency. That can do all the things that you know fast forward now. We know that. That's damn near impossible double as it's really really difficult so if there were one thing that you know get through the gates and upgrade bitcoin what what are you. Most excited edited about as far as technical. Yeah on the technical side Van Definitely fungibility and confidential the transactions and that kind of stuff with a tap root schnorr. Those things not not yet. Okay Yeah I saw something today. That's you just got pushed it into like the IP Status Tap Rootin- Schnorr Saga they're making their way tap root and taps grip. I got three bits bits so for full very curious to see what happens when if imagined they will go through at some point at some point. I'm very curious to see how things 'cause it drastically changes how you build on top of Bitcoin and what you can't build on top of Bitcoin. Because most of the time people go go to other things namely Assyrian to build these things or they're gonNA try and make some side chain like liquid and and because of that. You take a lot of the use out of Bitcoin people just hold it. Wait basically wait for something to happen. A lot of instances. I'm very curious to see what happens when those things get through because it drastically improves the things you can do. And the EPA and because of that like gives a lot of incentive to build to go back to building on top of Bitcoin. Yeah I like to make analogies to the Internet so I think where we're at is is not quite back when you had to be a university to get on the Internet but were more like where you had to pick out a phone number and figure out where odile too and that's Kinda confusing. No one likes to do that and now you just have the technician. Come they install the Internet for use it so I think that's that's kind of what we're looking at that right now with people still manually select coins and care about that kind of stuff. And that's not what the the the end goal you X.. needs to be it needs to be. Just here's your balance all bitcoin or the same. Don't worry about it there's disliking part of can you just said so. I remember when people who had computers at their home use them for things other than the Internet because because the Internet didn't really exist and that was the vast fast fast those the only use for for computers with Internet started a small subset of those people started using their computer cuter to the. Do this weird thing called the Internet with that and you fast forward to now and the vast vast vast majority of devices computers are only only used for the Internet. That's basically only functioned. When my mother tells me to buy new laptop in? She tries to point out the three thousand five thirty five hundred dollar MAC book pro. I'm like no no. You're just using the Internet. You don't need that. Your phone is probably just fine at the ochre and so like The core how long's IT GONNA be until we get to that. What are we going to call it? I think that's the main thing that I'm not willing to take bets on at this point. I'm not willing to say we're GONNA call it. bitcoin yet it could. It could be young. It could be a bunch of different things because like you said earlier like all the new chains besides besides Theorem in my opinion. Anything that wants to do value value value. Transfer is basically an experiment. In changing how you do blockchain's bitcoin is the hedge. That's the one that's been safe secure solid and will maintain probably maintain that that head but there's a potential that with the Advance of technology namely the cryptography. We use a lot of this stuff. we can come up with something that's drastically better and therefore could become come the backdrop of the stuff because the scale is always going to be an issue. Here I saw like I don't want to call it. I think it's always is going to exist. blockchain asked type things are always going to exist because we figured out how to do digital scarcity. I don't know what it's going to be called in five years we should make a resolution Where we make up a name every week for what we think it's going to be called and then in eventually when it gets called that point back to house smart we were exactly we could say told you we got it right? That's what we say. How many People Night Ripper Aka Digital Genie Aka Kit. I could go on like that for days. Probably we don't want that. How how? How many people have you been able to say? I told you so to and give the middle finger to saint time the back I make sure to come back at you know once a year and just like if you would have listened to me on on this date guttering is. He's probably made an application. That gives you reminders of who to call and say what say what two yeah I gave away a Lotta bitcoin though. So are you twenty eleven. God sorry go ahead in twenty eleven at my university. I organized talk For about Bitcoin. I got the the Computer Science Department to host it sponsor it and I gave out one bitcoin to everyone who showed up and also gave out free pizza but to get people to show up. I had to hand endow fliers all over campus and I made sure to go to the different departments and I you know. The message was Kinda geared to each area so if I was at the engineering campus than it was all about the Technical aspects so as the police I part and it was all about you. Know what are we gonNA do about taxation and governance and stuff like that so so make sure to get different cross sections of the campus to come but quite a few people just looked at it and balled it up in my face and just you you know said Oh you gotta pay your taxes. And there's a lot of angry people. We even got one of the faculty She came in and listened to the entire tired talk and then at the end of it she stood up and just wanted to tell us that. We're not as smart as we think we are Why that's the point? They're like what was the talk. I know it's during the talk. What did you talk about like just how it worked or potentials are? Yeah Yeah Yeah it was By Plato he was an early user he was doing he had just graduated from Mit and he was doing a road. Road trip from Boston. auto-pay all the way to California and he was trying to spend bitcoin only so he was looking for people would meet him at a gas station. uh-huh and take bitcoin and give them some gas and stuff now bitcoin back I put. Yeah yes so I just put a pin on the map and I said hey if you you come through my area look me up and He did so. I arrange the talk just to make it even more worthwhile Funny Funny Story about that is He he met my grandmother and he gave her sixteen bitcoin so she later on sold that and paid off her house. So that was kind of a great windfall for her. Oh man my grandson. Admit this weird guy that paid off my house. That's the that's the story that you tells people Internet money. Yeah Yeah I can. I can say shame based on like a blog post I got I got. I got a tip from a blog post. A long time ago that ended up eventually ended up paying for my house. That is a crazy ethnic her story I think her story is kind of typical of people that had some early exposure and then completely forgot about bitcoin until years later when they heard about it in the news in there like oh I had some of that stuff let me let me find it out whereas it seems like most people that watch the Bitcoin Price Day in and day out. They didn't really. They sold way earlier than that. And I'm certainly one of those I don't I don't have seventy five thousand bitcoin so you know technically speaking every move I made since I my initial acquisition was was a mistake in in the grand scheme of. It's assuming that's assuming that I didn't enjoy vacations and stuff that I took also from a purely like trading perspective but if you you look at it from all of the other things that like a tremendous amount of help adoption knowledge Like underlying utility Ludi getting people involved getting the Mitch did all of that. That was a product of using and selling at those times. I think is a greater good to do the entire ecosystem than what you may have made right now. If you just held onto it right like everyone who brought back then it just held onto it. There wouldn't be a bitcoin. Nowadays theory right there will in the problem was well. Now you can spend and replace but the problem was back then you would spend it and then a month later that the price already jumped doubled or ten an extra whatever I actually remember when the the big the big thing was will we reach parity with the dollar will one bitcoin equal one dollar and that was kind of like the moon for a lot of us but like was back then. There wasn't enough the quantity for everyone. Who had you know seventy five thousand Bitcoin to sell it when it if it if it did hit a don't know yet? That was the reason why I started my first exchanges because there wasn't a the market and I had to keep doing everything OTC. And I it was just a pain so I kinda scratched my own inch and then at the same time Learned a automaking exchanges to talk about that like what was the process of figuring out how to make an exchange in deploying it and then getting users because there was a real L. D.. Like because you had that itch guarantee a lot of other people had that in the ecosystem. How did that process go with you? Turning get on after figuring out the bumps and bruises of building the damn thing. I think I had a benefit because I was kind of like the visionary and I also am a programmer so I could do both whereas whereas a lot of people out there who were very business minded and they knew knew that they needed markets and stuff but they just didn't have the skills to build it themselves so they had to go seek outside help and that just made things slower for them and as far as making you know learning how to do it. The the tricky part for me was like the order matching and you know what do you do. When there's you can can only match part of a payment and would you do when there's a spread do you? Just you know pocket the spread or overlap. Or whatever or you know how do you handle that kind of stuff and that was what really interests me and and solving those problems is just learning about how markets were even what a market maker was at the time. Yeah Man I I think that's. That's that's a common story for a lot of people might be not to the to the the detail that you've had is speaking from my own experience. got into this because I really enjoyed or computer science aspect of this that come from a high performance computing background and when I read about read the original white a paper Cup of videos I was like Oh this is really cool like method for doing things I like. How this solves a computational science problem and in the process of digging digging and digging digging money is kind of interesting and markets are interesting and value is interesting and I learned a lot other stuff because it was necessary to understand the entirety of what? This project did the Gets even more so for me. Because I was a libertarian so had already kind of like understood the protests against the federal preserve and you know understood the macro economic stuff. So that's that's what I love about. Bitcoin it touches on everything. There is computer science lance social stuff markets. There's just nothing that Bitcoin doesn't touch and for Sheila learn about. Yeah that's what makes your family hates you. A family family get togethers too because it's like man. We're just trying to talk about sports. And you're like yeah. But dinwiddie is tokenism. His contract on the theory and blockchain. They're like what the fuck are you talking about man always with that Christian now It's you're right. It's multidisciplinary because at the end of the day it was trying to become new Sunni and that is more powerful like that that does very powerful to try to become new money Just from what what I've seen and what I've read read about and it it touches so many aspects of everyone's life and I I guess the did you happen to see that that graph that posted. I think it was yesterday morning. Where shows like how little people are sending now now when it comes to bitcoin like it shows when I started if people were sending sending whole bitcoins Willy Nilly and now it's gotten to a point now where you rarely? I see so once in the whole bitcoin is most people in sats or I think bits is what people tried to call it. That really caught on bits but in order for that to sustain the only way for that sustained is if the value. BITCOIN goes up right. I mean in my Emma being to so... In thinking that because that converges down war that converges down to sending either sat soto. She's or pieces of associes. You can't converge too much further so yes sub subsidy payments are pretty interesting. They are aren't they. They're going on lighting. We're going out of style but I mean you hear about that kind of stuff so at least I don't hear about that kind of stuff all whenever whenever I tried a brigade of Bitcoin cash people there like it's crazy but anyways I guess the question I was ethical. Sorry go ahead. The the question is since you've been in the so long you you've kind of lived within the economy of it for ten years. Do you see anything that could break away. The tendency for yet has to keep getting value. I I don't think there's much pointing in the opposite new in. No I guess the biggest threat would be you know we. We had a hundred years of economic and monetary policy prosperity to wear that all all the government's wrecking right and all of the central banks were acting right right but that seems very unlikely. Oh yeah does they're trying to. I don't know it seems like it's just a long road. Go from where we went to where we are now. And it's GonNa be crazier to see the mania when this thing touch twenty thousand again here in the next few years if you are. I can't believe it because not dead. So I don't know is just I. I can't imagine being in your shoes news and still holding it together for being this right. I guess that's what it is. Well I mean for me. Bitcoin is just a huge validation for libertarian philosophy. So that's kind of why I'm so so thrilled about it. And then you know the the new markets that it opens up the new business models making micro transactions actually actually possible. That's been a huge dream for a lot of people for a very long time. That's what really excites me. More than just the price going up a banking the under banks. I think people are still trying to do that. since you are looking at Hey payday loan people. That can't have a checking account. They get preyed upon quite a bit if you gotta go to check cashing place. The fees are ridiculous. If you you start getting payday loans the fees ridiculous. The interest rates are should be criminal I don't understand why they're not that it makes it puts you in a worse position than you were before hand. said there's no way could pave the original loans because it was so much unless you're really in a circumstance where it's the one off scenario of all. I'm actually going to have the money. I need to pay his back soon. Instead of I have no other options as the only thing I can do and I'm not going to have options for the future so I'm just going to be debt or make my life worse. Technology Ruin your credit so now you can never ever get a house you're stuck renting forever and that's just the. US Go ahead to now. Now I was gonNA find a question but now saying the. US like like we're all we have things going pretty well in terms of financial services within the US. It could be much better for sure. But there's a tremendous amount of places around the world. Since bitcoin is not jurisdictional that could potentially help. People will live their lives in a much more stable way or have access the services that they couldn't have access to to build businesses on a global scale. That all the stuff really really offers up. I think that's one of the main reasons. Why is that? It allows people to potentially pursue lives that they never would have been able to pursue beforehand and just based on being able to use his technology. Like it's it's a agree one of those things like imagine like your coder and some rural underprivileged area. There's no local market kit for you at all and if if you have access the Internet you may not have be able to get a bank account or any of the associated things so that people can why are you money or pay you appropriately but you can certainly provide services across the world just could never get paid for those services in any way that's useful to you but with with with crypto currencies. It's very easy to set up shop. Get paid in those currencies and make a substantial living with Relative to your local community and then give give back to the community with that their wealth or just provide for yourself and your family. Yeah definitely and there's services like Mechanical Turk where it's not not even really that technical is just if you use a computer and you can transcribe some stuff or follow basement strikes on you make money. Yeah Yep Mechanical Turk Turk now would onslaught of people you pay you. Pay Them to do simple tasks on the Internet and they will do simple tasks Internet for very large very small amounts of money in gist. Would counselors is a simple task. Fill out the survey I'd imagine they'd been employed to send emails or like certain types of comments or for I know one thing. It was a video imaging processing company that when the AI it was below a certain threshold they would send it to a mechanical Turk. So that for instance like they could the person the number thirty three on this picture von instead of dealing with what the I A confidence interval was so if it was below a certain threshold. Couldn't quite figure it out you would think batch to be kept Pushed it and then the result of go back to the end user wanting to know what number was in this picture. It's it's an unending amount of things you can do with Mega Turk because it's just people on computers doing whatever you ask them to. Can you fix we compete. Lets you okay. I don't think so I'm not planning anything I just. I wanted to know. What what are you asking that question for equality talk get fixed wikipedia pages or is that me? I don't mean fix says unlike a wikipedia pages broken fixes in like Vegas style. There's several things I need history to know forever. That's all I don't know where you're going with that one. I need history to know that Kim Kardashian is a porn star. I need to know things even back in that horse for out L.. Now it's been almost going on two decades damage. There's lots of things I need is to read the no and I wanna just make sure what pedia stay. Stay the way I needed to stay all then. Why don't you go on that adventure and come back and tell us how that works out? Go I'M GONNA make my life's work now. I got a question for you. How did you find us at? Why did you decide to join because you spend you? Spent a decent amount of time in the slack contributing Guy Quality content to us and we definitely appreciate that. I would like to make sure that people though that it's a place people can't go to ask questions. Russians learn more and talk with other types of people. Like how did you. What made you decide to join? Ah Being on slack is probably the number one thing because I'm already on slack for work and and and other stuff so it was just one more channel to add. It's pretty easy. DISCHORD is kind of the same way for me. I hang out in a couple of different dischord channels But what really attracted me to. The conversation was just how knowledgeable eligible everyone is in that channel and how open you are to the talking to New People and trying to educate people in the space It's twitter under can be pretty toxic so I try to avoid that stuff and in general I I've really kept a low profile and I'm Kinda only coming out in the open. Just because as of the Mice Association with Sixteen Thirty Eight digital. It's you know it's in my interest now to the tell people my history whereas I was I could have been comfortable just staying on other radar Dr Indefinitely so this is really the first incentive to kind of you know shout out to the world. Hey I I once had a bunch of Bitcoin You know please please don't kidnap me once. I once had a bunch of bitcoin. Once they're a lesson in a boating accident there. We definitely appreciate the conversation you bring to the table. And and how non-inflammatory the conversations that's getting people to see like what it was like like back in the day and how it's changed and reasonable dialogue on where things can go how they work and so on and so forth is always welcome. Thanks thanks for bringing that as long as you don't go into that politics in there. I WANNA moderate right. You would have moderated politics show. I've muted. I don't even. I don't even participate in that channel. It's just I I think yeah. I went in there for or day and I was like yeah. I can't do that every day. I can't I can't stay away from it But yeah thanks for joining in the slag man is. It's a you're definitely helping out there and like you said if you're listening to this right now pool over your car please get a car accident. Join the Slack Channel Join the conversation. There's lots of really knowledgeable people in there from like wide like so many different disciplines winds on we all just Kinda come kicking in talk about all kinds of stuff so and more questions Richard It's what sells about anything you want. Shell tell us about sixteen thirty eight digital joining. Tell people like where to go. What's new things like that sure? Yeah sixteen thirty eight digital. It's the Blockchain Fund it's a two twenty fund to the management fee and twenty is the incentive. NFC So if we make your money then we keep twenty percent of that and We are partnered with Jim. And I and KRAKEN FOR CUSTODY Warren Everett for counting Trident. Trust for Legal compliance It's a it's a really great group of Local People that I've known for many years They they already had a previous fund that they made about four hundred percent for their investments Investors in a and that was really good timing mainly they got in around two thousand and then got out somewhere in November twenty eighteen and The they already had everything in place except for the technical stuff so they have the portfolio manager. They have the business the Steph Guy. They just really needed the technical stuff to help them evaluate coins other than Bitcoin. So that's where I come in and I try to help figure out how to these. Tokens Tokens accrue value. Which one of them make sense in? which ones are the scams? That's not an easy job because there's a lot of them now. Maybe not I take that back. It's pretty easy to spot things that aren't going to work very well or teamed can't provide it. Yeah I'd give him give him the trademark. All right man Do you you need anymore. no kidding intimidators less Can you describe bitcoin digital money Scottish. I'd say over time the ability of people to condense what Bitcoin is into a very few words has gotten way better way better. I remember we first question like we got like paragraphs paragraphs like no one could ever do it. It was impossible for anyone to say anything that was coherent in less than thirty words at now. Everyone's like it's digital money. What would you say? That's a good guess we're coalescing we're coalescing around a narrative as opposed to like whatever people see a future. I don't now yeah I look forward to the day where You know I go up and talk to someone and I'm like Oh you're using bitcoin. I love Bitcoin in there. Like Jeff I like money to like money. They're they just like what's the big deal. There's no dollar clubs. Yeah I guess that would be like when you're talking about. It's your kids so one day you'll like around before there wasn't bitcoin like around four money. What are you talking about GRANDPA? Shut the fuck up. It's very huma a semi. That's exactly what pasta to me. He was like why are you so crazy about money is just money and I was like not shut up old man the conversation it all right. Well thanks for stopping by. Thanks for Cotinine the hang out and slack and And Good Luck. You guys are. Knock everything at a ballpark with you. Know how much experience it sounds like you guys are working with and you a specific perfect experience in the industry I think now especially is feeling like a really good time. So Yeah yeah thanks Dan Aw and.

Richard It Bitcoin Saito Toshi US Robert Richard mcdaniel Richard Welcome Moore Korea Dick New People Johnny appleseed HP Tulsa Kim Kardashian
TBP Announcements: Coin Cloud

The Bitcoin Podcast

37:36 min | 1 year ago

TBP Announcements: Coin Cloud

"Hey, welcome back to the big one podcast network. Yeah. Well, hey, you're about to listen to the big win podcast announcements. And we gotta tell you something what's come to our attention people didn't realize this. And we gotta let you know, these are sponsored episodes, meaning that the participants that come on these episodes have paid to get access to you. That's the way that works. So featured on our network means that it's sponsored. So we wanted to get that out in the open. We hope you enjoyed this episode here. It is. Cast. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the network. If you heard that music by the absurdist, you know, that it is time for the bitcoin podcasts announcements, and we're gonna jump right into it. Like, we always do. And I would like to introduce the CEO of coin cloud Chris calorie doing doing good, thanks for. So we always liked to ask these questions. I and that is who are you? Who's Chris had a Chris fallen crypto woes Christine before crypto Annan had of those who need up where was the crossroads there. Yes. Interesting question. So before crypto I was playing a lot of poker through college in got into like the poker craze in the. Graduated college in trying to figure out if I wanted to real job or not had like significant savings from from playing poker successfully through call in in the buying a house must Vegas in just playing ninety nine percent playing on mind in then all of a sudden is day called black Friday where sort of the department of Justice sees full tilt poker in poker stars in the major poker sites in froze froze balances that was in two thousand eleven in. That was a maybe a couple months after the first time. I heard the ridiculous which I heard about it on my favorite podcast econ talks in. Got the thought was amazing idea got the juice spend be controlling your money. Government can't seize your your your assets, if they're bitcoin control, your private key, all that was pretty cool. And then all of a sudden I see full to poker in hocus season. The count bounces frozen in clinch when arbitration process I ended up getting funds like five years later. But with bitcoin, you know, as sort of a real world use case where had these poker sites been done in bitcoin in a way where you held your own private key balances on the sites that would have never have or you could send in bitcoin much easier to from the site online deposit in withdrawal access. So you know, after that happened after the department of Justice sees might a balance I really interested in bitcoin and decided to learn a little bit more than I wanted to buy mowing another time Mangakis was the only options I didn't feel comfortable sending money they're just based on my experience with hotel. So I. I don't believe me. Yes. I like deep dive into like, you know, mining and built my own GP you mining rig from scratch in was minding, my garage Vegas in two thousand eleven and then all of a sudden yards mining maybe like one or two bitcoins day at like two dollars each. And then got my I like electricity Bill in the middle of summer in Vegas. And it was like five hundred bucks lining dollar bitcoin is like this doesn't make sense. So I'm plugged it. But that was my first really hands on experience with bitcoin in sort of sought worked was sort of became the bitcoin guy in Vegas in restraining. It. Would people amongst friends and family join to meet ups and doing trades in coffee shops in casinos here in Vegas in sort of like ground level street level demand for the trading buying bitcoin. Fast forward a couple years twenty thirteen an acquaintance year in Vegas prototype for bitcoin ATM. Company called robo coins. And they were sending the yet they're sending machines to Canada in overseas in Europe. But nobody was operating in the United States. And I you know, I personally asked him. Hey, why is this the case? Seems like there's a business opportunity there. And they said, oh, it's money service business laws you regularly like Western Union money gram foreign exchanges. He figured it out. Fortunately, for me, you know, my college roommate was practicing law here in Vegas. I approached him said haters problem. Here's these set of rules, can we fit bitcoin into these existing laws around money service businesses in after three six months of research. We did on first bitcoin ATM on the Vegas strip in twenty four teen. And fortunately for us the demand was their machine really kill it in. We have grown on Ganic Lee sense of in have seen the growth of bitcoin in the demand for our product grow, which has been awesome in our at two hundred twenty locations relations, yet nationwide where you can find so bitcoin cash instantly. Using our ATM's in the are continuing to grow fast. That's when we ever have despite sort of beer market in bitcoin. We're adding right now twenty five machines month in will probably be adding fifty to seventy five by the end of the year per months. So the end is that is quite accomplishment. Congratulations. Yeah. It's it's a good performance metric for the space right in in that is your eighteen or being used quite a bit anew. If you're putting twenty five out a month, you know, that's almost every other day. That's just cranking them out and. It says a lot to adoption which is something that we love on our network is we always talk like, where's the adoption? The only thing that matters point blink theory. Right. Not transactions per second. Not all these other metrics that the community who's in all over its its adoption are people using the shit. And I think that that's your you got a good case study. They're like. Yeah. People use my teams. So let's let's go a little bit more towards of coin cloud, though, why did you feel the immense need to start it up? You know, maybe there's some cool stories around the name. I don't know. What's let's go by the origins of coin cloud yet. You know, I saw the need for the cash to bitcoin trading just for meeting people on coffee shops or local bitcoins in that market was sort of very inefficient market people were. You know, meeting random other people on the internet in random places at random times. And there just seemed like a hassle right? You you don't really trust the you trust the person. Meaning they could you could scam you hack you. Haggling over price. You don't know if they're compliant. Trader is that, you know, even at your local bitcoin during his business you have to comply with money service business laws in our imagine most people aren't in. So there's a lot of problems that market in our product really just solve all problems. And once you put a machine down. It's there, you know, if the stores open twenty four hours a gates twenty four hours a day. You don't have to coordinate with meeting somebody you knew the address. Usually. Going cloud is trusted counterparty registered federally. We offer customer support. That's twenty four seven on both phone end a Email and text. So were there for our customers in wanna make sure the transactions are successful in. If you're new to bitcoin, we wanna take that opportunity to to help you out get you on into the system. So you like what an amazing tool cryptocurrencies in? You know, we we really relish the opportunity to build trust with our customers in that builds builds the a nice loyal customer base that that knows no coin clouds gonna do them, right? This sounds like you have a lot of diverse ages from your competitors and the school solicited a little more like what makes your ATM's different from your competitors. Because that's pretty down right now a lot of big win ATM's crypto ATM's. So what the what he thinks? It's you. From the rest. Yeah. You know, we think about this all the time how we can offer a better proxy customers. One where the largest so we've got the most locations, but like, I just mentioned we've got the the live customer support. We offer new product which is offered was. Are are all point platform. So you can trade up to seventy all coins right now in we're adding more and more as they come out, which is amazing feature. We just added we've got a bitcoin wallet. That's an accompaniment to our. ATM that helps you find the near ATM to you that our customer sport information there in. We offer support on that wallet. Nets free to download the app store. In all of our machines dimensions most important thing since day. One all of our machines are two way bitcoin ATM's, which means you can both by end sell bitcoin for cash at the kiosk most of our competitors. Are are one way where can only buy bitcoin in we use some special hardware components that are a little bit more expensive than but higher quality allow for the buying of selling bitcoin. So we're not just the on ramp weren't on and off ramp to bitcoin. So what about the what about the users interaction? What about the user story 'cause you know, ATM's the they team that I use. I've only use one bitcoin eighteen is robo coin funny this vision in it was in Austin, Texas are and as Roma coin, but it took a long time, and it was using. Oh, by the way, it was maybe three years ago, but it's just a long time to get set up. And then the confirmations, you know, there's that natural point resistance. There is that the network is bogged down than the confirmations might take a while what's made years so successful. Yeah. You know, the robo Klein was the first tomorrow night in there were all sorts of different problems with that that kiosk was a nightmare to operators operator are nightmare to us as a customer that first. It had a lot of problems in, you know, it's no surprise that company wasn't able solve those in longer around but generate innovation of machine in the hardware in the software has gotten much much better in now, you can walk up to a machines putting your number skinning ide- in by to ten thousand dollars crypto within five minutes. You know, use? Get once you scanner ID goes the our compliance process. Get a texture approved. Once you've been approving you'll have to do that on subsequent ships machine. In once you put in the cash and hit undone. We broadcast that transaction to the network instantly. You'll see that on the blockchain was euro, confirmations instantly. And then, you know, waiting for a confirmation can take, you know, anywhere from a minute to thirty minutes, usually. On the sell side for smaller transactions up to five hundred dollars. You can. You can start the transaction from home hold on. Beca. So for small transactions under five hundred dollars. We'll do zero confirmations sort of the cash on the network on for bigger transactions. If you don't wanna wait for the confirmation, we you can go to our web app on our website in cell head to can be sitting at home in reserve in the machine send the bitcoin to the machine. And then have it reserve there for when you actually go to kiosks, putting redemption coding, you can draw instantly. So you're not standing for kiosk waiting for a confirmation. In the meantime, I think that's very fourth thinking of you, by the way, I I read a having a web app in having an app period because I read recently, the only seen in business or for one of those business sites, and it says that the two large fastest growing mobile payment points are Starbucks app and McDonalds app 'cause people are paying for their stuff before they get there while they just pay for their stuff. And then they get their coffee or good or get their double cheeseburger, fine in of like, wow. That one little change of allowing people to do something before they get to the destination physically is is rapidly growing in popularity. So it's a pretty forward thinking of you know, if you did it because you saw that trend or you just did it because it's like this is gonna be easier for people if they can start transaction before they get to the X. Actual physical point where they're gonna go yet. Getting a lot of feedback from customers. Like, oh, I gotta wait for confirmation customers calling customer support line. Like, hey, it's been forty minutes. Why like cashier? Yes. We saw that pain point. And we're just like, yeah. There's no reason why we can't create this web app to take care of it ahead of time in haven't ready for them when they arrive in you know, they can check the blockchain from home in c. Go get a text message to but seeing real time via third party. Like watching info that you know, would this transaction status. So you mentioned something about compliance. Could you like to elaborate light on the efforts? That coin cloud goes through to to maintain that most compliance in. And make sure that all parties involved are gonna get angry knocks on the door for men in black suits, our navy jackets try to figure out what happened with money whereas going how to get there yet. Definitely, you know in twenty thirteen. Department treasury came out with guidance at classified crypto traders has financial institutions under the Bank secrecy act in its enact Bank, secrecy act, governs banks is well as quasi financial institutions like ours. Western Union money gram. In, you know, an obligation on the Bank secrecy act, mature, not money laundering. Essentially do not know the money that you're touching his come from criminal sources being used in some sort of criminal enterprise, and you know, Bitcoin's a new technology. You know, we're sort of the first rapper has around how to mitigate those risks between cash and bitcoin. And so at machine were were idea every customer to make sure we know our customer where that cash is coming from. In. Then we are. We have a set of like limits in place to make sure they're not going over certain thresholds government deems is, you know, you need to file reports on if you're doing a cash transaction route ten thousand dollars in you're supposed to file what's called a CTR. We're making sure the customers don't do that daily basis. So we don't have to filers reports. And then, you know, our compliance team is just monitoring some of the transactions that meet higher risk thresholds in just making sure that they're doing reviews make sure this being used for criminal activity, and if we have a suspicion that they're being used for complexity will we contact the customer and say, hey, this is suspicious. Can you help explain what's going on here? And if they can't or it is turns out there honest in it is being really likely will shut them down in file whatever they do on for. So that's in a nutshell sort of what we're doing ragging, you'll go much, deeper dive. But I'm not sure the average listener really cares. A lot about. What the regulations are some of them aboard aspects of operating our business, if if they do maybe Chrissy can go on our other show, the long blockchain podcast that we have network love to add to plug their house. Yeah. We definitely the crowd. That would be interested in learning more about this. But yeah, you know, we are working with a lot of regulators in law enforcement at various levels to make sure our customers aren't being scammed make sure that funding beings for legal activity. Unfortunately, one of the things that we've been seeing more recently at the machine is customers being sent there as part of its scam. You know, it's sort of these old scams that were previously on Western Union money gram that would you like buy this car on EBay for by new BMW for five thousand bucks, and it's like too good to be true story, and though run down to the Western Union, or in this case, the bitcoin ATM send you know, five thousand dollars with bitcoin. To who knows where and we've we've actively been trying to combat that sort of nefarious activity. We're doing that by putting several warnings machine of both when you walk in. And then on the bottom of the footer on every page, and then our customer sports staff is trained to look out for the very signs. A lot of these people are new to bitcoin in call in non understand it in. We'll we'll make sure that you know, have you been sent to machine by stranger were you on EBay or the IRS agent. Trying to say you need to pay your taxes through bitcoin literally scams. We've changed our customer sports app to really look out for those and protect consumers, less good. So speaking of the consumers, what's let's go from point A, although. Point z. May there may be about what I would need to start using your ATM's fresh. What would I need to do? Yes. So you can you need to set up the count. So that's essentially scanning your ide- you can do that at home right now. Go to our web cashed bit access dot CO Mursal link on our website, or you can just go to the machine, and you you can do either way and essentially putting your phone number will tech you a six digit code that. Prove you on the device. As that phone number. And then it'll prompt you to hit your photo ID once you mid that about a five minute process or less where you know, we check the ID make sure that you know, the name on that idea is not on a terrorist watchlist or anything like that. And then once you come back proved you'll get a text message. Hey, please don't use the bitcoin ATM you've got full limits. That sounds like a very smooth process. I know I don't know how many people on the audience have ever sent their ID somewhere. I I think the first time you do it. It's a little bit like nerve wracking. But now I've done it so much with so many different companies from baying to, you know, all the different agencies, I interact with sending my photo ideas. Like, you know. Yeah, it was like unheard of five. Ago. And it's amazing what mobile web based technologies like fintech has has changed. You know? It's like almost a standard part of opening account, even like Venema or. A lot of these other new tech institutions, and and it is funny as I was trying to get my pops open a coin base account three three years back. And he was like, what do you mean? I gotta send in picture, mud, driver's license. I was like will. I mean, that's what they want you to do. So do it. He's like I've never had to do that before. And hopefully, well time change, I don't know what to tell you. If you feel uncomfortable with it. I guess you could go to California. You wanna go to California and give them your license? I don't know. What you want me to tell you? So. Yeah. So for everyone listening. If you argues a coin cloudy TM just submit your ID, they make sure that you don't have any various plans are done in various things. And then you're good to go. You start using ATM's. Right. If you wanna do smaller transactions to if you can just putting your phone number, and if your phone number has a name registered to it. So like, we can do a look up automatically. That says, oh, my my phone numbers registered with AT and T under my name. We can do look about NAT name, and you got give you a two thousand dollar lifetime limits. Nice. So that will you know for people wanting to do small transactions or by their first crypto or just play with machine as new technology. Ozzy really needs. It fun. What about what fee wise, so some eight teams have higher fees than others? What what is the fee run is the same as static or does. It change dependent upon the location. I don't know what. Yeah. For now. It statics on the buy side were ten percent. Roughly it varies by location, depending on sort of drummer paying their regulatory requirements in that jurisdiction. But typically on average ten percent on the buy side on the sell side. It's about five percent. And in terms of we would like to implement some sort of dynamic fees. We've sort of played around with where we wanna balance are buying sell ratios to manage the cash. That's in in the machines. We're working out some solutions to that. But that's a future will probably add in time. This is this might be outside of the box question or maybe get a lot. But how would this benefit the small business owners cause to small business owners? You know, you may not even know what bitcoin is while business owner in that doesn't matter you still gonna see the benefits your business. You know, we come in place machine for free insult for free. Do all the sport machine for free cash logistics customer support. You don't have to worry about any just sits in the corner store in a sixteen by inch six by force base. So very small very small, and we get you rent based on transaction volume of machine which is great for the unused corner of your stories. The not only that you're getting a lot of new foot traffic into your store people that are coming there because they will bitcoin working by bitcoin locally, and it's one of the few places in your city that they can actually go and do that. So we've we've had stories were people driven. Three hours from Utah to betas because it's the only place they can buy bitcoin for cash. So you know, that's an extreme example, but often people are driving fifteen twenty minutes across town to your store on a while unique foot traffic that would've never otherwise come into your store, and obviously spillover effects that here. So your products in hopefully, we can sell our product to your customers. So there's a lot of good sort of cross pollination that's happening from this tiny little sixteen sixty four space in your store. It's a very into the way ATM's work before. People didn't use them. Was always when I was a kid us ATM's a lot like, you know, lunch money or whatever. And anytime I was in the gas station is like, yeah. Go buy soda, so. Iraq, leave the fact in, you know, our customers are typically more the convenience base customers. 'cause you know, we do charge a little bit higher rating get on coin based, but you're paying for the convenience. You're paying for your cash now in in that sort of cuts also customer that wants to soda analogy wants candy bar now in this is a great crossover demographics the deal. So just a few questions left. I guess one. You mentioned all coins earlier would which Coen specifically are being added to the system that you can boast about the some popular ones out there, which which are which are new which are upcoming. Can we get any yet? So we've got the the major all coins that you would think like the top five with bitcoin cash in theory airman, Tim classic Tron coin. And we we wanna let consumers have access to much as possible. And so, you know, we sort of do our own review and make sure it's not a complete outright fraud. You're not buying it. Connect on our platform. So we'll just you know, making sure that. It's legit product. And then we'll put it on the platform in allow the consumer to decide sort of where they wanna put their money in investor money. We're trying to make it acceptable to them make crypto accessible to everybody the world. It's funny. You mentioned big connect. I was trolled by more than a few in community back in the day. Yes. I get. Like, just like asking them, very simple questions that they should know about, you know, blockchain tech. And there you keep saying these words, you don't use MAC is you don't know math like us. And I was like that's ironic 'cause I have a degree in it. So I don't know what I don't get that that you get. But anyway, enough about it connects those people are hurting. We will continue to add more and more coins to platform as they come out. You know, we want to add more and more services because of the end of the day, we wanna introduce people to crypto joys of crypto. We were sort of agnostic. I believe in bitcoin. But knows where this thing's gonna go in who knows what cool services that can be added on different Blockchain's. So in only that we kiosk is only just be cryptic. Yes. We the vision that it's just a financial kiosks for twenty percent in sort of the internet in fintech. So today right now, it's crypto but tomorrow might be crypto an Ben MO in PayPal in cash app in this is a place where you can get out of cash, the cash up instantly in so that's sort of the cash network that were were intending to build here. Tell us about these this upcoming implementation you can make credit card purchases. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Thanks. Thanks for reminding me. So yet, we, you know, our customer support line since day one has people calling asking can we buy their credit cards? No only cash for now because the risk of chargebacks. And the immediacy of credit cards has always. Customers have always wanted that in. So we finally figured out solution that in we will be offering next month in February the ability to purchase bitcoin on our website. And yet our wallet up through. With a credit card, which is huge so customers no longer have to go to the machine in use the ATM that's the traditional HMO's next machine to draw cash in inserted into our bitcoin. ATM they can just do it from their mobile phone or on the internet. Nice. I'm pretty sure a lot of people out there will credit management type of people. That would definitely love that option. Well, I guess is the last question kind of the trademark question. We have for this show. I didn't like it. I, but now I kinda do and that is is there anything that you had wished that asked you that? I didn't. I mean, you really covered all the bases of. You know, I think I think we really covered all the bases. If you wanna learn more about us in our product what we're offering could our website coin Kat ATM dot com or download our three big wall in the app store. Coined cloud ATM wallet. We just wanna continue to grow fast in brings crypto to the masses. So that's our that's our vision. Going clouds going global. You know? At focuses the United States right now. We think that we're two hundred twenty machines right now, we think that could be ten thousand three years in United States. So we're gonna get the low hanging fruit in the market. That's. Huge in and the market not operate in for now. But if certain opportunities come up global, we're not opposed to that you nice I like that approach soa of some one of my old mentors. So you gotta storm the beach. And I asked him was that mean, he's like, well, you know, when you taking your territory, you don't just like drop all of your military on the whole land. You just start with a small little beach, and then you branch out from there. Oh, that makes sense. But anyways noth- about old quips, Chris. Thank you very much for swing by the show taking the time to educate us on coin cloud 'cause previous contacting I didn't know about going cloud. I just knew about like you said robo Cohen new 'bout the other lamb Massu bitcoin teams. Thank but I wanna wear going cloud was doing so. Well, and was was around. So thank you very much. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people, you know. Confuse the operators in the hardware manufatures by Lama soon rebel corner manufacturers than they would sell his products guys guys who are writers in sort of like it sanction of like Hieaux song makes the ATM selling to Wells Fargo who actually operates it that sort of the market distinction there. We've actually we actually building Yaas. Now, we were unhappy with the rebel coins of the world and took that hard. We want more control the hardware in the actual product that was being delivered to the customer in took that into our own hands. So we're building our all-round kiosk right now in in in Arizona. Right. Well, thank you very much. And if you are interested in going on the long blockchain podcast, I'll try and let Amy know maybe we could set that up. Maybe there are people who wanna know about the intricacies of. KYC AM L laws ATM yet works. So having do thanks for having me. I would happen on that. Gases. Well.

Vegas bitcoin United States Chris Western Union EBay CEO department of Justice Canada Europe Austin Ganic Lee California Arizona Mangakis
LTB #438 Bootstrapping Mobile Mesh Networks with Bitcoin Lightning

Let's Talk Bitcoin!

50:41 min | 4 months ago

LTB #438 Bootstrapping Mobile Mesh Networks with Bitcoin Lightning

"It's really that problem of how do you I sold it technologically, but then also have you get a critical mass of users, and that's the challenge that Mesh networks are still trying to overcome, but I think crypto currency is well on its way to overcoming. Hello and welcome. This is episode four hundred, Thirty, eight of let's Talk Bitcoin on today's show. We'll discuss distributed mesh networking, and how bitcoin and specifically lightning network being used to solve these zero start problem with the aim of getting this long discuss technology useful place a lot faster than we've seen so far. To these episode is sponsored by e Toro Dot, com and let's Talk Bitcoin is owned by the hosts and his editorially independent. You can find, says every Sunday on Bitcoin Desk podcast network at Coin Dot Com, the Lt. Network, let's talk bitcoin. Dot Com and are privately managed shoal subscriber feed at LTV show dot com with all of that said I'd like to welcome the host of the show Andreas 'em, and Synopsis Hello Stephanie, Murphy, there everybody and special guests Richard. Myers who works on the Global Mesh Labs Initiative at the Brooklyn based Mesh networking hardware startup. Go Tanning Richard. Thanks joining us today. Thanks, thanks for inviting me. Absolutely, so Richard, while this is your first time being a guest on the show way back in early twenty fourteen. Your piece for me at. Let's start bitcoin when the earliest pieces that I remember about the need for truly decentralized exchanges. Before, we get into sort of the topic at hand. Can you give us a little bit of your background and sort of your journey from there to here? Yes, sure it's quite an honor to be with you guys. You were the first podcasters. I listen to your gut such familiar voices after all these years. It's to be on the other side of thank you. I'm a software engineer. I've been doing that for quite a few decades now and yeah, I guess I found out about Bitcoin just the way. Most people found out about it through some article. And the time I was actually in the process of moving to another country, so I became interested in Bitcoin. To do remittances actually in you know wasn't a third world. Country was first world country, but if you remember back in the day, you know your bank might have wanted fifty bucks to do a any size transfer internationally. It'd probably still doesn't some parts of the world, but let's not as much problem today, but you know it was prompt for many years, and I think that was my initial interest, and then also I mean I was interested in decentralized technologies. Even before that so i. hear a lot of people tell the story that they were initially skeptical while I was irrationally. About bitcoin soon as I heard about it, I thought this is great. This is GonNa change the world, so yeah I guess I really clicked with the idea pretty early, but despite being a software developer I. Never really dived into the weeds of it I'm not a cryptographer in I had other projects that I was working on, but at one point I actually Kinda fall down this rabbit hole night. Remember at one point putting together like just a personal slide deck. Like what can we do with Bitcoin and one of those I think it was about twenty five slides was decentralized bitcoin exchange because. Because even in two thousand fourteen. I could see out like an imminent problem in my mind, two thousand fourteen. This is going to be huge centralized exchanges like Mt Cox was. The big issue is going to be like horrible for the project, so my brother and I actually have been working on that since two thousand fourteen. You know little bit at a time and in the meantime has been other solutions that have come up this taking some of the urgency away, but you know we worked with Manfred from bisque. When you got that started. He was starting his project about the same time. We worked with him a little bit, and I think that was working out of the projects. Family stuff going on, and it was only in two thousand, seventeen where I really felt like. I wanted to go even deeper into this and was inspired as most people were I think when block stream launch satellite project I'm thinking about decentralized communication. That's another way is developing. Always look like where the vulnerabilities and that was another significant vulnerability for the bitcoin project is the fact that the last mile is always controlled by some centralized is P.. Of course, you've got snowed in a lot of stuff going on around that time, you know that kind of made me think this would be a great way to contribute and it sort of independently I had seen on twitter Elvis's sort of mediated by twitter, which is funny, had seen Gotovina. Was this Personal Mobile Mesh? Radio and I started corresponding with the CEO and she had an interest in decentralized currency. Go Ten has been accepting Bitcoin I. Think since two Thousand Fifteen, so they obviously saw there were some ways that these projects could sort of interact. So then you know went from emails to working up. Some ideas written down. And then eventually I, quit my job of sixteen years, and cited to take the plunge into do the bitcoin all the time, with Katrina, and that's why I met now really happy to have made the decision, and the further you go, the more you realize you don't know, but it's been. It's been a journey. How long ago did you make the jump? FULLTIME bitcoin. I guess it would have been two thousand. Eighteen, now I guess he's been a couple of years. Yeah, two years now cool so from very early on. It's obvious that you were interested. In sort of these decentralised technologies mesh networking isn't really directly related to crypto currency, but for enthusiasts. It's sort of might as well be right. It's another meaningful way to decentralize something. That's super important, also just by the nature of how the systems work pretty centralized. Centralized right lot central points of failure and a lot of places where pressure can be applied, and if you'd sort of remove all of those control mechanisms, and you have a fully sort of peer to peer system as you sort of envision with a Mesh networking system. Then you get kind of a lot of that stuff back I remember in the very earliest days when I was I. think my first. First Bitcoin conference. I met the folks that open garden and got really excited about that project. I think that for a lot of us. It kind of captured the imagination about what could be done. You know you. And I talked a couple of weeks ago. Just real briefly about sort of the work that you were doing and kind of my first comment off. The Bat was one I think about Mesh. Mesh networking I'm thinking about it like my Wifi router can talk to other people's WIFI routers, or like we could have a network where your cell phone could access the Internet on my Wifi Router, and then I could make some money off of that as a way to offset that cost, you could create this sort of Mesh Network of WIFI routers, but that's not at all what you're doing with go. So the compound question here tell us what kind of your vision or the current vision that you're pursuing for Mesh networking actually is how does that work and then also talked to us about sort of Mesh networking general and where we've started and how he got from here to there. Yeah Great. This is A. Question, we get a lot of people like you said think about. Wi Fi in like fixed wifi and maybe bridging homes with Wifi. That's kind of Mesh Network also, but it's one that is more referred to his community Mash and there's a lot of good projects like this one called NYC Mash whether setting up these fixed directional WIFI receivers, and there's even some cryptocurrency projects. In fact, my first project go to review some of these existing Mesh projects that were coming out of two thousand seventeen in this boom. There was a lot of them. And really only one stood out. There was one called Alpha and it was the only hadn't created their own token, and shortly after we published our sort of up of all these projects, they also issued their own token, so it was sort of nine for nine or something. Those are fixed. Wifi and it's really more like an Internet replacement. That's sort of how those projects all and we see them as sort of working with what we're doing, but what we're doing is Mobile Mesh network and that's a little more challenging, and it's also got some advantages so the challenges that your mobile so obviously you're not gonNa have the same amount of power. You're working off a battery and it could be lower bandwidth because it isn't a directional mic or directional antenna. So Mobile, you think of it more like a cellphone replacement mobile data replacement. Walking around with your mobile phone in sending SMS messages, that's the sort of base case. Use for Mobile Mesh Network and if you buy go tennis. Gotovina makes these little battery powered devices. They're like the size of a large cigarette lighter. And they pair with your mobile phone, and then you in an APP, and when you type in that APP just like you would in your sms, App Your Signal. APP, it will then broadcast that to nearby nodes to nearby devices in the person you're trying to talk to was within range. It's going to of course. receive the message on that radio, but if they're not, this is where the Mesh comes in. It's GONNA rebroadcast it in. It's GonNa hop from radio to radio to radio until it gets to its final destination. And the Rangers going to also be larger than a typical by your home. Wifi it covers mostly the house whereas what we're doing. We're broadcasting on a lower frequency. It's IFM band like Wifi also I assume that just means unlicensed. You can do whatever you want with it. You can open your garage with that frequency, for example, which is great, because the original go ten product, which was launched, think around while act forget, but I wasn't around at that point, but the very first was actually kickstarter project, and it was on a different frequency, and just the FCC sort arbitrarily says you can't multi hop on that frequency so i. has advantages that it sort of more wide open. And the Nice thing about being on a lower frequency of ISM than you're sort of two point four gigahertz you'll five. Gigahertz is that you've got a lot longer range, so what we have on our website is around. Four miles. It'd be sort of what our range would be so that might you know if you want to visualize that rather than just your house? It can go across the neighborhood, so like five or six houses, or in three or four blocks something like that. And this would work really well in a city like somewhere. That's densely populated right? Yeah, the Nice thing about that. You do have some problems in a city like New York. You have buildings and it's going to block the signal a bit. You know I mean it can't go through buildings, but there's also more users rate. Doesn't that strengthen the network? Yeah, exactly so these places that are really built up. Up are can have more users so in a situation where people are actually using mesh technology you turning density into capacity, so it's actually very favorable in those scenarios, and if you're in the country, then you've got the advantage of range, so you don't have a built environment, but you have ranged from that myth. Actually the longest range that these radios have seen our arrange record is about ninety kilometers. And that was from ultralight glider, so there's a person who been application. We have an openness case. People can build whatever application they want. And somebody built one for ultralights, and they got around ninety kilometers, because they were in a place with like no radio interference, and it was just totally line of sight kind of communication, and that's an important for building the network, so if you're building a community WIFI network, it's pretty. Pretty slow to build out because you have to go house to house setting up the antennas pointing them and you know it's a slow process to get that going. It is good and we see those networks is complementary with a mobile network, but what we've really optimized for is range, because then you need a lower density of people to get a good connected network, one simulation, or that Rahm our chief scientists did. Did showed in about three by three mile area, which is like midtown, Manhattan sort of without the building. Say You just have twenty five randomly moving people with the range of ago tenant, you could have a fully connected network. Each person connect to other people, so that's a big difference. If you try to create aim fully connected network with Wifi, you're going to need thousands of people and with Bluetooth. You're getting like. Like hundreds of thousands because it's such low range, you mentioned fire chat I mean fire, check a great APP, and if you're in the middle of a protests, Bluetooth is great because everybody you WanNa talk to his nearby, but try to connect a city range is really critical, and the trail of course is going to be bandwidth there. You have these three things that fight against each other power, bandwidth and range and. Battery operated device. We want to minimize power usage. Maximize range band with what we have to minimize to get those other two. But it's great for Bitcoin. bitcoin is a resource limited protocol already, maybe not for bandwidth, but the net effect is that it doesn't need a lot of bandwidth. Hopefully that gives listeners some idea where these mesh devices fit in one of the things that you mentioned Adam. That made maybe think about this is that mashes a lot like cryptocurrency in that? It's this technology that people have been talking about since the eighties in the late eighties. That's just never happened. CRYPTOCURRENCY was dreamed about for a long time and never happened in. It's really that problem of how do you? I sold it technologically, but then also have you get a critical mass of users, and that's the challenge that Mesh networks are still trying to overcome, but I think cryptocurrency is well on its way to overcoming. Another parallel real quickly between crypto currency and Mesh networking, which is the kind of permission list nature of it, and the sort of ad hoc nature of it right if you're talking about sort of the alternatives to doing text messaging over something more traditional, really what you're talking about is a lot of clients that wind up using infrastructure that's provided by a company. Company whose job it is to largely provide that service so for talking about cell phones and text messages you can Mount Cell Phone, towers, or something similar to that some type of network like that. What that means is that if cellphone towers don't work than even if there are tons and tons of people or in the actual functional part of the network. Network they can't actually talk to each other at all. Because that's sort of ebeling layer is not there, and it's not like someone can just throw up another cell phone tower and provide that without the permission of the underlying company. This is sort of similar to how sort of the traditional financial system works, and if you compare that to how bitcoin works, right. Right between mining is this sort of games theoretical thing where everyone is incentivized to participate because there are meaningful incentives to participate, but if they don't WanNA participate, or if you WANNA, go away for a while or turn off tower, so to speak. That doesn't matter because the network doesn't necessarily need you. It just needs participation. That's broad enough across the network. Is that a good analogy to what's happening with. Mesh networking to anybody can sort of drop in and then come back and effectively what you're doing, you're talking about capacity and perhaps connectivity you know, but so long as you have. This minimum number of participation than the system works, even if the company that was providing it isn't there anymore. Yeah, absolutely, that's a great analogy. And the Internet initially was supposed to be that kind of network to it was designed by the military to be redundant. If one connection goes down, it would route through other connections, but that isn't really how our networks now. If you'RE A. Piece Subscriber. It's GonNa. Go like you said your mobile phones can Tuck to a base station. Your Home Internet's going to talk to some Heddon and if those go down, they lose power, or you're just flat out censored. It creates a centralised kill, switch or sort of point of failure for communication, whereas a Mesh Network obviously like you said it in a centrally planning, who's going to be doing the routing from person to person also like intellect cryptocurrency? There is a cost to that it would be more efficient. Use a centralized. Can Get a network engineer in there. You can make sure you have one. You know spaced in such a way that you always have constant coverage, you know this is Constantine, cryptocurrency two. It's always simpler to centralize, but what you lose is redundancy, and that's true for communications to just like it is for cryptocurrency I mean it would be more efficient to use pay pal. It could confirm faster for example. You wouldn't have issues latency, perhaps that you that you have now in cryptocurrency but price you pay redundancy and resiliency. So, yeah, I think there's a lot of analogies with that. The interesting thing too is there's like a hold. overcome with communications. If I'm the only one running, the radio is not that useful. That's the sort of zero start problem, but once you pass some threshold. It's like bittorrent bittorrent was initially wasn't enough. People maybe to get files downloaded in a quick way or tore network is another example initially it might have been very. Very slow if you used like early tornado workings very slow midnight. Start using it again for the things. You know two years ago when I was like. Wow I'm blown away. How fast the tore network is, and it's just a matter of that. It's gotten onto the exponential part of the networking growth and things pick up, but it's that zero start problem is to get on that. Growing part of the curve is where the difficulty. Absolutely. Well it seems to me that one of the similarities in the adoption profile for this and for crypto currency is that developed environments where there is extensive efficient, but centralized infrastructure don't really see the immediate benefit of this, and it has a lot of cost of installing. Whereas places that don't have the centralized infrastructuring leapfrog directly into this and move faster and gained decentralisation and the easiest way to explain it to people in developed nations, since describe scenarios of crisis or societal breakdown or authoritarian government, so whether I'm talking about the introduction of Bitcoin or the introduction of Mesh, networking, you know Venezuela or Hong Kong Lor Iraq Syria refugee, situations, or things like that seem obvious developed nations, people and they're still quite a few roadblocks in terms of cost availability for the places that really really needed. How do you see that conundrum being solved and Descriptive help Mash Mash helped crypto in that way. That was sort of the initial insight that Daniele. Perdomo her other CO founder had know bringing me onto this as they could see this sort of similarities and one of the interesting things about cryptocurrency that they saw was that it was a protocol that incentivized. It's us so that's where we see some potential crossover. Is that just like the bitcoin protocol incentivizes its own use. Use in. incentivizes ecosystem of minors note operators and protocol developers and everybody sort of exists. How do we make that something? That also is true for Mesh networks and what you're saying about developing countries is also interesting about the idea of leapfrogging. It is a conundrum, because even those places have the most to gain in probably recognize the value more than they do in the West. If you're in a place like the United States you really are pretty used to ubiquitous communication and the idea of having a resilient redundant system, maybe isn't going to be that attractive, but but as you said in a place where the power does go out frequently than this is an easier story, but those people are not unfortunate situation where they don't have necessarily the time or the money or the technology to develop this stuff, so it does get Kinda. Left to people like us. Sort of techno hobbyists in Doozy to build it, but ultimately I think it will see the most value in these other places. One? Other point that I thought was interesting. When you think about how this can help developing countries, it has another feature that's similar to cryptocurrency in that you're taking responsibility for your own financial system and keeping the value of that system within the system. There's also something like that that can happen for Mesh communication so rather than having the money in the community for communication, leaving that community and going somewhere else to an international provider for example who set up your or who set up your radio towers your like base stations. You actually had a way. You could pay your neighbors to be the bay station for you. Hit the guy down the street. who happens to be running relay to be the one who carries your traffic down the street? Then your extra keeping the value generated by the communication network within that community. I think that's really important a lot of these and why they'll probably be more valuable in developing countries or like you were saying said it'll be more recognized as valuable than it would be in the Western world where it's kind of Dominica's cost that people would earn. than its naming his valuable. Okay so Richard I've kind of a two part question for you here. Usually technology works really well for me. Right I live on the west coast of the United States and you know the number of times that I haven't been able to use cell phones because you know, towers have been out really is pretty minimal and technology in general is pretty stable for me, but I remember during the fires that we had in northern California a couple of years ago, I was actually evacuated. And you know it really impacted the town that I was in and was trying to reach family who were outside to figure out where we were GONNA. Go since we were evacuated and none of the cell phone towers. Towers, work trae, and so all of this infrastructure that had worked when we didn't necessarily need it. Suddenly when everybody needed, it wasn't working at all and one thing that has always been interesting about these types of technologies. Is that when you're providing this type of service, not at the centralize level, but in a more decentralised fashion, if more people choose to participate in one of these networks, rather than seeing the capacity exhausted because it started capacity, you actually see capacity. Go up right so if there was a reason why people were sort of forced to use alternatives than that actually isn't taxing event for the system. It's almost an empowering event for the system. So that's part one. Is that correct? And then part two, which I think this leads nicely into to use something like go Tanna, and to actually start building one of these whether we're talking about in Africa. We're talking about in California during a crisis. What is the person actually need? And what is that experience actually like? Yeah. It's interesting. Eventually fires. We actually have. Not Related to my project, but just go. Ten in general has sold units so to first responders, people who are fighting fires because they have their own problems communicating amongst themselves. This is actually where ten is. Probably the most uptake is among kind of this idea of a small of people who need to keep in touch share location information. And harder to take that same model and apply it to more but consumer market, because if I'm hiking with family I'm GonNa, have my Gotovina turn on, and I'm GonNa have an APP and I can send messages and say hey. We'll be back at base camp in a couple of hours or something. This is sort of the model that works. But how do we make that same person? Person, say Oh, I'm going to be walking around the city and I'm just GonNa. Leave it on my backpack on clicked on the back, and I'm going to relaying messages for other people. No people do that altruistically. They do that because they're hobbyists, but so far not really in enough numbers decreased ubiquitous network so overcoming that problem is a definite motivation for some of the work I'm doing. So I think the second part of question is to sort of what would it look like the experience? Yeah, like go, Tena, the product that you guys actually manufacturing sal is a little radio, so like what kind of form factor is that? Is that like a walkie talkie size thing or like? What's the ask on a person who actually might potentially use something like this? And what is the experience for them? Too Bad. We're not video here, but it looks like a large cigarette lighter in. Oh, it's about that size, so it's pretty small. Yeah, yes, it was very small and light. It has a lithium battery in there, and it has a kind of a plastic rubberized clip on the top, so let at times people were clip it onto the back of their backpack or good. have it up a little high. If you really out hiking, people will actually put them in a tree create like a bread crumb trail back to base so you can do things like that. That with them, and it's definitely possible to use them that way as well. The experience of actually using it though would be that it's pairing with your mobile phone and you're GONNA load. Say the Gotovina application, which is just like any signal or any of your communication APPS, but the difference will be that you'll have maybe another mode, so in addition to being state I'm GonNa, send a text message to my friend. You can also say I'm just going to broadcast a text message saying hey, who's nearby, so that's because it's a radio. You can do that. It actually in the APP will encrypted end to end. We're trying to make good privacy something. That's standard that you don't have to think about so it generates a public key in it. Does that for the user without really having to think about it just quickly when you say it's connected to the phone is connected by cable or using, Bluetooth, or what sort of the normal route here? Bluetooth pair device, so there's no cable. You actually can use a cable so if you wanted to. Hook this up to your computer, you can use a USB cable. We have this development sdk that lets you build apps for IOS. Android but you can also build Python APPs on your pc in to the radio. So that's fun. If you wanted to make your own base station, say to do. Do something. Maybe a weather monitor something you could build it yourself so yet. From that standpoint, it would be like you know, said a Bluetooth, headphones or something you just pay it, and then it's going to be like that or if you're gonNA leave it in a tree, it doesn't have to be paired. You can leave. It just turned on in relay mode, and then it'll just passively relay. And if you're using it whether you have it paired or not, and somebody who you don't know, sends a message in it picks it up. It will participate sort of it. The firmware level at routing their message over your device. So that's how it works right now so that you don't have to enable meshing the people. It just does that as a standard part of the protocol. In how much does something like this actually cost? Prices Vary. I usually say they're about eighty bucks each. They come in a pair of two, but there's off in discounts. I think we're running a twenty percent discount right now. If you go to the website and that's very affordable when you look at like with military spins on Mesh Radios, it's orders of magnitude more expensive, so you're getting quite a lot of hardware in there now. Unfortunately, it's still probably out of the reach of people in the developing world. Who really could use these? But you gotTa Start Somewhere I. Think you get a lot of use. If you're out hiking or if you're somebody who really wants to be prepared for a disaster, it's pretty good value. Compared to a lot of other sort of preparedness things a lot of other early technology things that does strike me as being remarkably reasonable price, because you just need one of these to work for your rhyming like you can't create your own network, but if you want to participate in a network, the ticket to participate is effectively that nominally dollar one time purchase. Yeah like I said you usually buy them in pairs. Because most of the time people are doing that, but you know it could be one for you for your wife or know you could give it to a neighbor something like that, so that's all you need, and then your mobile phone, so most of the user interfaces on your mobile phone, so you can do things like send your location, or you can do periodic updates if you're out somewhere and it can people nearby where you're at. That's what you WANNA do. This episode of Let's Talk Bitcoin is sponsored by Toro. Did you know that each row has been providing powerful tools made easy to traders since two thousand seven and offering cryptocurrency trading since two thousand thirteen. Any Toro there are no hidden fees and no commissions. Traders love the intelligence. They offer like smart charts on every asset with customizable chart features end the ability to experiment with virtual portfolio that stocked with one hundred thousand dollars of test runs as soon as you create your account. Get started in minutes by going to E. Toro Dot com, that's E. T. O.. R., O. DOT COM. Remember they cryptocurrency is volatile and trading. It carries risks financial loss. Please trae responsible. Do. You want a Swiss bank account in your pocket. Do you. WanNa learn about unstoppable code and universal access to basic finance. Discovered these topics and an explanation of the philosophy economics, politics and poetics behind blockchain technology in the Internet of money volume three by Andrius 'em antenna Poulos. Following the worldwide success volumes wanted to this third installment contains twelve of Andreas, says most inspiring and thought provoking talks. Available in. And kindle unlimited. Order, the Internet of money volume three on Amazon, today. I appreciate you kind of digging into the Mesh networking as a whole, and what you guys are doing and go tennis specifically, bear again for me whenever I think about Mesh, networking it typically isn't this sort of radio approach, and it's interesting to think about it like that. So you mentioned that you know, there's some expense associated with this sort of precludes it from being broadly adopted in places like Africa or places, where the cost of living might be substantially lower, eighty dollars might feel substantially higher talk to me about how you guys are using Bitcoin, or how you're aspiring to use bitcoin and lightning network to sort of solve the zero start problem as you call it, and can you just quickly? Tell us what the zero star problem is? Yeah so zero start problem is a problem that every new technology that's a network technology will suffer from so you're the first person with the telephone. There was nobody to call then when there was two people, it actually gained a little value. Had that same problem when Laszlo his pizzas, you know there was no market for Bitcoin, but once you had a single exchange. Now you start to build this network of commerce in that case in the same thing is true for cellphones. Until you had somebody to call on this open network, it's not that valuable, but that ramps up very quickly you get sort of exponential growth as the network grows so getting over that zero start is challenge was the second part of your question, so at the beginning of this we kind of talked about how many of the early projects turns to kind of an ACO approach to raise money. Money and to create sort of vested group of enthusiasts who would have a real reason to pick up that technology, and yet you're all these years later and you know Mesh networking still is not broadly used most of those tokens I. Don't think have done much of anything, and we're still in this early stage of the technology rollout, so I was reading in one of the papers do provided about the lot forty nine white paper, which is a proposal for using bitcoin lightning as a way to incentivize the delivery of value and data on off grid multi hop radio networks I'm super curious about that. Can you dig into? Sure there are a lot of approaches so obviously like you said there are people who made their token, and that gives you a certain flexibility. It isn't just about financing the project, but when you're starting with a green field of technology, you can do things maybe that you couldn't do within the bickering network, which is already an established protocol, so we did actually. Actually spend time looking at other approaches and actually spend a lot of time going down a rabbit hole of this different signature schemes for example that might be lower bandwidth. I spent a while looking at Michael Bill signatures. If you've ever heard of those, which you can aggregate and save a lot of space, but ultimately the deciding factor for us was that. You needed not just a technology and not just a financial incentive for people to run and exchange messages on a Mesh Network, but you also needed a community that would build on this technology, and that's where we really saw. The value in lightning does have such a strong developer community Bitcoin has a strong developer community at the base layer, and lightning also has a really strong development community, and is very compatible with what we want to do so in a nutshell what lot forty-nine is! Is doing what some other projects you may have heard of things like what's at by use Jaeger or the cycles, Sphinx Sand in the more recently juggernaut in all of these are using the lightning network, which currently sends payments from eight of the sea in all those intermediate nodes can collect a small fee. If the payment is delivered at the other end, all we're doing is saying not only sitting payment, but sending a small message so in our case to be like an SMS message. So you're sending the SMS message, and along with a lightning payment from A. B. C. D. and when D- receives that message. They return crew that was delivered, and that's what flows back through the network. In the lightning sets. Your pre image is computed from the message so that sell those nodes are able to click their payment even if they lose touch with the original person who sent it. So in many ways, we're not making a new protocol. Where really literally using lightning? What Lot forty-nine is is more custom communication protocol that's optimized for Mash, so we've made some changes. For Mesh nodes that. For example right now there's a thirteen hundred byte onion that's used to route messages over the Internet and that's very important, because you lose a lot of privacy, lose all your privacy. If you were to just send messages without any onion routing over the internet. But we're sending over more or less a physical tour network because it's going from no denote it's not going to a central IEP who can associate who you're trying to pay, and we're also doing it over a low bandwidth network so. If you were sending thirteen hundred bytes may not sound like much in the age of the Internet, but we're talking about devices that are talking about a kilobytes a minute. So that's a significant amount of bandwidth that you would have. You couldn't even send one minute if it would just be all uninhabited, no message so for example we've are lot forty nine. We take out the young, and we use the native routing of the Mesh Device which is optimized for Mesh Communications and there's a few other little changes we make like that in order to reduce the bandwidth by chunking up messages and things like that and the ultimate goal is to really minimize heightening protocol overhead so that there is more bandwidth available for data for things like sending an SMS. Has Bank with things like Internet protocol, but right now we're really just looking at a messaging protocol like SMS style text. Messaging Protocol. So, Richard, what's the argument in favor of using something like lightning for this type of application verses, something like just base level Bitcoin, is it a cost thing is that it can activity thing, or what are the things that have driven you toward that side of the bitcoin world. That's a great question because it would make a lot simpler, and even in some ways lower bandwidth. To send a layer one bitcoin transaction they can be you know around four hundred bytes depending on the number of inputs and outputs. But then what would happen in that case, there's sort of two real downsides there. One is, you would have transactions fees. And that would be for every message sent, and since we're looking at really micro payments for these messages, you know if you imagine a would have to pay B B have to send a message to the Internet to get confirmed on the layer one. Be Send to see and they'd have to do the same dance, and then see would go to D- so you see this like really multiplies the amount of traffic that has to go from potentially in off grid network onto the Internet. and. Then there's fees for each of those hops. And then there's latency to get confirmation which could be on average ten minutes. We've seen it go up to a half an hour so pretty soon it would break down. You wouldn't be able to do it, so lightning is great because it's optimized. I mean it really is made to this micro payment regime. And I think it's a little known, or you know it's not really emphasized, but because the value is locked between the nodes every time you make a payment, you don't have to record it with the Internet. That's really your fullback. You can fall back to layer wanted. The communication fails or one of the nodes is dropping out. But otherwise the payment from a to B. and C, d all that can happen without actually touching the Internet essentially. So that's really what drove us to lightning fit not just from a speed stamp so also there's not XP's. There's only the fees for the routing, so there's no layer won t x fees. There's only that much lower lightning thieves, and the latency of course also lowered. Sort of all of the factors that people pointed to for your quintessential pay for a cup of coffee are really multiplied in this case because we're doing much smaller payments, we're doing much quicker payments and we're doing many more payments. View imagine you're having a conversation. That's like a lot of back and forth that you would need so all of the advantages of lightning are even more important for this. That's really what drove us there. So looking at the bitcoin Mesh networking connection from a different way. You know I talked about kind of the disaster scenario in the developed world. There's another scenario to that kind of prominently comes to mind Stephanie I'm thinking about you and pork fast. Porpoises disaster scenario yeah that's. Accurate now. Wasn't saying that as this early I remember years ago. I don't know if you still go to pork fest. No I haven't gone in a few years and I'm not going this year and probably not going back ever again, so let's just take the generic idea of sort of like an off the grid camping type of scenario I remember one year you went and I think it was Charlie shrimp who paid to bring in an Internet connection that was then broadcast out. But again it's like this centralized service that everybody's sort of drawing from. So for anybody who doesn't know the background. There's a camping festival in remote regions of northern New Hampshire and just to give you an idea of how remote it is. People who are flying in have to fly into basically Logan Airport in Boston and drive for five hours north to get their. Commitment, and along the way up at the top. You know you're losing cell phone reception and once these few maybe cell towers in the area get overloaded with a massive influx of people as there used to be a lot of people who went some years. There were two thousand people. There's other festivals out in the woods in New Hampshire and Vermont where several thousand people go, and the that were gets overloaded as the week or or the weekend progresses, it's harder to make phone calls and receive text messages. Sometimes you receive them a couple of hours delayed, and then you can't meet up with your friend anymore. So communications can be a big problem and Internet access in general is a big problem at there. I remember in the earlier years. You know when you were still attending. There was kind of this tension between people who wanted to pay with silver. Yes. Sort of this thrill money thing. Yeah, this was a community that was really interested in. Forms of crypto currency and actually I think this is where I first heard about the idea of Mesh networking was this particular festival because back in the early tens I Guess Twenty Eleven, Twenty twelve twenty thirteen people had been buying stuff like food at the festival with silver, and even I think people brought little chips of gold, and they were getting sort of like a tab going with certain restaurants that would spring up. Because, they really wanted to use alternative kind of currencies to pay for their stuff, and you have to buy food up there and there's not many restaurants, so people can bring their own, and then they sell it, but as bitcoin started coming up, people wanted to bay with Bitcoin, and this became sort of a problem because if you don't have reliable Internet access, it's difficult to get bitcoin transactions to go through. Yeah. That's a great example of where something like this could work. And not only that mentioning the restaurants. Just like they might be pop up restaurants. You could imagine somebody coming with a little satellite uplink, and maybe kind of expensive. Not Everybody's GonNa want to have one of those, but if they could resell their bandwidth to other people who wanNA confirm? Their payment or they want to send a message outside of festival. You know if you're the gateway where everybody's going through, you can actually gain a little bit of Bitcoin. Each one in also prevents people from just using it unnecessarily not going to be sending cat pictures. If you've got a pay per byte, so people would use it really when they really need to use it. What about security because I? Remember another problem during this festival was that people would set up like fake Wi fi nodes, and you know they were stealing people's information and passwords and stuff. Yeah I, mean probably not that problem, but if you really wanted to look at sort of an adversarial scenario, you could imagine if you're the one guy who's got the satellite uplink, and you were the nefarious thinker. You could do what they call an eclipse attack on network. I mean. This isn't easy to do this police something. Something average Joe couldn't pull off, but you could sort of give a wrong blockchain to just the people who are getting the blockchain information through your sort of their only source of truth is to the state of the blockchain now, what makes that really hard as they would also have to mind blocks at a certain difficulty, even if it isn't the full difficulty, so that would be pretty difficult, but again that's a threat that bickering people talk about a lot is that you could be isolated from that honest network? That's actually why I wanted to go with. This is when you're talking about a system like bitcoin. What it's doing right is it's pushing things up to this global layer of truth, right this sort of international layer of truth. That doesn't have any particular geography, but in a situation like that basically everybody who's doing business, there are all on the same place, and so it seems like you want to have that connection to the outside world, but as you said like it's. It's a lot of data. If you're literally pushing everything that's happening locally up there and then having to come back from Hetero in order to get a full round trip, so talk to me about how Mesh. Networking can interact with these types of systems whether it's at layer, one bitcoin, or like lightning layer to sort of allow for local transactions happen in a way that still references that global truth lehrer, but doesn't necessarily rely on it to be functional at all. Yeah, it's an interesting problem. and where lightning is really helping us here is slow and potentially costly interactions with the main chain only happen when you're opening closing channel, so if you imagine your pork fest scenario, and you're using lightning than you might just have to only do to transactions to join the payment network because you're going to just go to your Bacon. We've guy maybe. Maybe some other guy who sells food in open channel with them, which is going to generate to on chain transactions, and maybe that goes up to the satellite takes ten or fifteen or twenty minutes to get confirm incomes back, but then after that point, your value is locked with them, and it's like you've opened a tab like you're mentioning Stephanie. Vocal Tab with the silver. And every time you do a payment that's not leaving your campground. That's just going to circulate between everybody else who's connected with various channels? Maybe the next guy you gotta pay has a connection to the guy with the Bacon, we or maybe two or three hops with the guy with the Bacon. Will you so as long as all your payments are in this physically local area than the communication is local. I understand what you're saying that everybody was trying to make a payment. Over like layer one, you could very easily get into a situation where that data never reached the network where it takes a long time, and every payment had to go back up to that satellite or to overload, so phone towers than that just wouldn't work. This doesn't just maybe a campground scenario. This could also be if you're in a remote village in some part of the world where the mobile carriers don't want to build out infrastructure. Maybe you're mostly talking to people in your own village, or when the community nearby farmers or whoever happens to be and occasionally you might need to communicate with a relative in the city, and maybe that goes through a more. More expensive gateway to get there, but it's now incentivizing people to provide that gateway, and not relying on some external force to come in and put it in. So that's really the vision I have and I think that we have ten how we can empower this last mile communities to be connected into take responsibility for their own connectivity, or gives them a away to be responsible for their own connectivity. Maybe, this could go into space eventually when more people start living up there? Will you know it's funny? You say that obviously there's the block set, so block stream has a satellite, and they actually have a messaging system over the satellite, and we've done some work with them to show that you can send a message again with lightning. This is not a new idea we've had. Other people have had this, so you can send a message and pay for it with lightning to their blocks Jim Satellite Service. It'll come up to the satellite. Come down anywhere in the world, and then you can receive it with a cell receiver, and then we broadcast that. That over the Mesh Networks, so maybe you're village has one blocks receiver, and you can get a message from anywhere in the world, and have it then relayed over this local Mesh Network, so you can have these sort of hierarchies, and it could go even one step further their people putting up these low earth orbit satellites. I think there's a lot of them I. Think Musk's even trying to do it, but there's one right now where you could use a very low power radio. Maybe even tenants points to reach that satellite in that period where it's flying over you and in that way get data, both in and out of a very remote place. So the future's bright when it comes to communication technology. All right so Richard. We're almost at time here before we go. Though I really want to understand, what are the challenges to get us from the current state of the technology and the current state of the deployment into a place where it's actually really useful in real life you know, and I hear that on the developed world side like the challenge there is that the infrastructure that we have isn't perfect. It's not super resilient, but it works the vast majority of the time. And on the sort of undeveloped site or less-developed side, the cost of building, something like this from the ground up might make more sense than building cell tower, systems, or something like that, but it's still too expensive. So is that an accurate assessment of the challenges that stand in both of those sides? What did I miss and what needs to change is the cost of these devices just need to come down. Do we need to have more disasters that force people to think about you know resiliency and redundancy within these networks in a different way or kind of what's your necessarily vision, but what's your feeling for what needs to happen for this to really get to a useful and broadly deployed place? I can only really tell you sort of what I see is a good strategy to overcome those challenges, and it's in the Western world. The way I sort of look at it strategically is that. So for instance might project is to put this into mobile phone so that you could do this lot. forty-nine protocol with the lightning payments from mobile phone, just a good way to shake it out and make sure that we've overcome sort of technology pardon. WHO's GonNa, use them. How do you sort of bootstrap that in the Western? World I think it's really going to be a core of hobbyist. It's going to be people like bitcoin. It's going to be people who see the value of having this technology both for their lighting payments, but also to have a resilient communication network, and it doesn't just have to be text messages you know these gateways, these relay Mesh devices can also be relaying blockchain information so like block headers for instance are pretty small, so I could see a demand among people who are already sort of bought into the bitcoin story, becoming a people who see network and are the early adopters. Then, I think the next wave is going to be people. Be Disaster minded or after hurricane they might see the value of having this network in their community and buy one, and we've seen that already happening in places like New York after Hurricane Sandy. That was the original impetus for tennis so I think every time you have a disaster and you have this solution. People see that it has value. You can start to grow the network slowly that way now in the developing world. I think these lessons in these technologies that we put together can be adapted in those places in everything we're building. A Global Mesh. Labs is open source. I mean we're funded by go Teneh, but nothing we make, it's proprietary. Everything we do is open source, and if a homegrown Mesh radio develops in some country than they can adapt this protocol to what they're doing. Maybe that's a way to get a device into a place that doesn't necessarily need all the Polish of a first world device, but wants. Wants to bootstrap their own network, or maybe they just build off of a different kind of Mesh instead of Mesh Oh. What we're doing with these ice radios. Maybe they can build a measure, the Wifi that's already built into their phone. Maybe they just find a way to hire. The LT frequencies their phone already talking people can get pretty creative to make it affordable in those places, but I you just need the technology to exist, and then let people run wild with it in their own environment. That's sort of my vision of how this can happen. How this get bootstrapped I? mean the technology has to first be proven in the West, but then I think it can very easily be adapted in places based on the local situation for people who are interested in sort of getting involved with the open source portion of the project. What are the relevant details worship? They be going, you know. Are there any papers out there? You think people should be reading technologies beyond Gotovina. Attention to stay up to date on the space. When pointed gift people is if you go to Global Mesh? Labs, Dot Org, we usually have posted are white paper, which again is a little out of date, but also linked to a telegram group from there and get hub so as we do. Projects usually will post to get up there. We also have a lot of. The blog called in the mash. You can usually find a reference there kind of up to date things that we're doing and also I mean we're really looking for developers. You mean somebody wants to reach out to me in. They're interested in this I'm Ari Meyers Underscore, R E M E R s underscore on twitter at really would love anybody who wants to go deeper on this, either as a tester or somebody who just wants to. Contribute dwelt in time. Anything like that. We really love to work with you. And if you're interested in a different hardware, there's other systems like lower which is pretty popular would love to work with somebody on that and depth the stuff so that we can really create a standard for value in incentivisation amongst mesh networks as any kind one plug I'll put in. We just posted an article today on in the Mesh Dot com about using amateur radio, so we had somebody actually send the first part of a lightning negotiation from Michigan to California. And we'd like to get somebody to communicate on the other end, so we could do a full sort of protocol exchange across the country. And looking for volunteers to help us with that, too. And that's a wrap on episode. Four, hundred, thirty, eight of let's Talk Bitcoin? Thank you very much listening. You can buy new episodes every Sunday on coin dot com. Let's Talk Bitcoin Dot Com, and of course, the show's dated feed and Lt be show dot com. This episode was sponsored by Toro Dot Com to show featured Stephanie, Murphy Andreas M Antonoff Lewis Richard Myers and Adam Levine with music by jared rubens from either and Kurt Beats, is episode was edited by Jonas while have all the links discussed in the show notes and we'll be back next week with another episode of Let's talk. Bitcoin we'll see of that.

bitcoin Mesh Networks Richard I cryptocurrency Stephanie I Mesh Communications New York Africa tennis Andreas Global Mesh Labs Initiative twitter
eps.061 - Adam Barlam - Crypto In 2020 and Beyond

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1:42:14 hr | 10 months ago

eps.061 - Adam Barlam - Crypto In 2020 and Beyond

"BITCOIN radio which man Joe Blackburn fresh off the Christmas holiday hope everybody had a great one coming up on the New Year New Year. New New bitcoin. Right that's kind of what the hopes or at least a new. BITCOIN market I and that's what I believe is well. I don't even want to complain that much. I mean twenty Nineteen was great for Bitcoin. It was great for Bitcoin but it it's not great for all of crypto currency and more specifically it wasn't great for most of cryptocurrency and. That's okay just just what the market does and I'm going to have a conversation with with my good friend and And great contributor to the space at Barlinnie shortly going to be coming on and joining me again Adams bed on he's the founder of a Bravo coin. As many of you may already remember or no but we're here talk more about the market dudes a thought leader to me and I and I consider his perspective and his opinions on the market is a as somebody. I take very seriously as we get into that. Obviously as noted hope everybody had a great break We still got one more part of the holiday coming up with the new year. And I've got some plans. I hope all of you. I know there's a lot of crypto related related parties and Events and. I hate that I'm not gonNA be able to make one but Everybody just be safe out there you know. There's there's always something that happens around that time that people are extra Loose and extra just likely to have fun but keep your heads up. Folks paid engineer surroundings. Make sure that you You're making decisions and and in I wish wish everybody obviously the the safest and best rest of the holiday all right moving forward. Let's go and bring Ataman man. Welcome to the show Adam Barlow. How's it going dude? Aw Dude is going great man you fat and happy from from the Christmas holiday. I'm still recovering from the food coma from yesterday. I'm like just feeling well today. Hey Hey look you know. I always regret just about all the food. I eat over the holidays. This year is a little bit different. I was just like I don't care I'm not worrying about it I just need to relax lacks I mean you know. This is good anybody. You're found over project in CRYPTO. You're you've been in space long enough. I mean you know you gotta take a break mentally. I mean shuts down. Oh you do everything operates twenty seven or so you gotta you gotTa take your time and enjoy yourself every now and then south on that for sure and we only did one show is the first time since we started that. We only did one show so far this week. It'll be this'll be the second one But even for me just to kind of turn it off it was it was it was a reset button even for myself and I I really needed it in a lot of ways it. So I'm I'm come back into the new year really fresh and engaged and you know I mean you've talked off camera we've got a bunch of cool things and ideas that are coming around and a lot of people doing cool stuff in twenty twenty coming up and we'll go ahead and start with you man and Just go ahead and reintroduced stuff atom. Obviously been on the show before but tells who you are what you do sure. My Name's Adam Adam Barlow The founder of Bravo coin We do reviews on blockchain. Come from a pretty open source. Tech background Mess around with Lenox when I was super young and I worked at Intel for a number of years daddy for a number of years got into blockchain bitcoin now exploring this rabbit hole too. And if you didn't hear the first episode that I did head with adamant I interviewed him as the founder This is more of a casual and fun conversation With the with the concept being more about the subject matter what Bitcoin Queen is and what we can expect and hope to expect maybe is a better word coming up in twenty twenty but you know go listen to episode is probably in the Thirties. Maybe yeah probably. It'd be like mid thirties in the episode numbers. So scroll back. Make sure he listened to but as far as you know the subject of the show and you know where we are today at the the end of twenty nineteen. You made a great point. We were talking earlier Adam before we got that got on the show here in started recording. Is that you know. People don't realize how close the having really is happening is upon us and it's only a few months away out to yourself you now and we're getting close. Yeah and you know because there's two different year numbers. I twenty. Nineteen is what we've been in for the last year and twenty twenty year that the having comes in you know we're talking about may that's you know literally less than five months from today. Hey is when the having should be taking place and you know. We don't correlate at times just because there is a year number not necessarily timeframe obviously but I think it has kinda snuck up on some people and it will continue to do such because people are looking at the market or seeing all coins down. They haven't seen any real bomb or benefit of the the having minus nice little run mid June July ish. You know as as we ran up in played with Fourteen thousand almost and I don't blame people I can fall into that trap up to add on but you know what order some your perspective on this like as as far as the sentiment of the the social crypto world. How how do you view people and how they're thinking about the price of Bitcoin in the market as a whole so I find it interesting because I feel like the general sentiment in the market is actually quite bearish right now and that's actually quite surprising? Because we're like you said we're so close to having event and having event just from a mathematical perspective from a financial perspective from a cyclical perspective in a store Co. perspective. Bitcoin always reacts. Whenever having is coming up so I feel like you know? We're we're in this period where people are have just been so bearish for so long we've been encrypted winter for awhile trend. You know we had. Even we had a nice little run up to fourteen. We're back down. You know in the in the sevens even tap into sixes and I I feel like the Senate just got super super bearish again and I feel like it's unwarranted. I this is this is what the whales want. They want you to unload your coins for cheap. Because they know what's happening what's coming up in May twenty twenty and they know that the the New New supply of new bitcoin. Dean mind is going to be cut in half and you know there's a lot of a lot. There's a lot of you know a lot of things going on in the marketplace. Now now on that indicates that what's happening occurs that we're going to have some supplying basic supply and demand issues and you you and I both know you know all these markets partly knows Revolve around supply and demand. So you know you start having more demand than supply than naturally. The price is going to have to respond. And you know one thing. That's interesting that I've read. Recently is the amount of New bitcoin that people from the cash after buying and then people who are invested in GTC which is the the gray scale bitcoin trust such as on the OTC Z.. so the cash right now is eight percent of actual new bitcoin purchases or I'm sorry a bitcoin being mined eight percent of that is being bought by hi to cash up and then an additional fifteen percent is getting bought up by GTC so right then and up twenty three percent of all available point being put into the market from minors. His huge amounts orange amount. Is there anything that has it been been been being bought up before eventually buyer distantly increasing and square reported who owns cash APP Square reported their Their earnings reports about our report about three weeks ago and their quarter over quartering year-over-year Revenue bringing them from the cash APP is just staggering exponential financial growth at their habits. So it's not surprising so you think about this right now. Twenty three percent of the new available of bitcoin output is is being allocated. Okay to these guys right now. When the having anchors that's instantly going up to forty six percent and you know I'm I'm someone who believes strongly in basic supply and demand math half and to me that seems like there's GonNa be some supply issues when there's more demand and that's just saying if you know the the demand stays as it is and you know we stay at that twenty percent lock mark and so we have the having and judging from previous quarters in the way that the whatever cash squares reporting? That doesn't seem likely seems like it's GonNa continue to accelerate a little bit. So who knows is going to be up to fifty percent you know that they're consuming by having occurs. We're GONNA have to see but all I know is that to me that that's very bullish in my mind. It is and for those listening who may not necessarily understand the having I think most of the listeners I have will but you know I wanna make sure that we we We catered to that. Maybe you know new newness or that new person and and that is the having has already occurred. What is this the fourth time third time? Excuse me is the third time. Yes so this the third time this will be the third. Okay Yeah Yup Yup. So we're in a position right now. Where share the current rate in which bitcoin is produced new minted? Bitcoin is around twelve an hour or twelve per block and a half right now but after a while and so the having is actually literally cutting the amount of minted bitcoin and half to that six number six plus and that is going to decrease the amount of brand new bitcoin that did not exist prior to sold onto the market now. Now I don't want to pretend like every new bitcoin that cemented is just dumped onto the market. That's not true but I would say more than more so oh the not. You're going to see that new bitcoins minute. These these miners have to pay the bills. f-folks how do you think the pay the bills. They sell their bitcoin. They pay the bills. Maybe they're stacking sats along on with the rest of the hotline but they have a little bit of a profit margin they keep that profit. They sell the bitcoin minds to the market. And they're not sitting there with a overhead. That's not making I I would. I would venture to say that half at minimum half of every minor every every amount of bitcoin that each minors is actually accumulating. They have to sell just to stay in business and it would just just be a guess. I don't have any facts to back that off just using my my own sense here now and it could be more than that too and I would actually think it's more that spending if you're a larger mining operation then you get into things like you so how much your energy costs are and stuff like that and you also have a employees at that point you of maintenance and there's a lot of things but to to kind of focused focused point here it's more so that what I want you to take away from this is that not you know. Ten percent of the supply that is currently being minted new not twenty five percent fifty fifty percent decrease right fifty percent decrease in the amount of bitcoin that is newly minted going from twelve point. Whatever to six point point whatever and that's a huge drastic change folks and every time it's happened what's happened at them? We've had a cyclical parabolic run and generally doesn't have a right when the having Normally we start going powerball runs normally like you know few months three to four six months after having but every single time that happens the market starts Korea because it's all based on supply and demand and demand goes up in the spy goes down Yup. So if you think about folks you know we're going to see I mean this is a huge percentage soul. Bitcoin I mean it's a it's a monumental moment for bitcoin a half first and foremost but there's a large percentage that that is being dumped onto the market. That's brand new. That's never been out there before. That's not in somebody's wallet is being set sitting there. Hoping that pickling goes up day not even being used for transactions. It's literally being in. This is the it's still bitcoin deflationary and concept here. But right now it does inflate itself Nana bad level on a on a very you know precise predictable level or whether there's rules and laws behind it but it's still adding to the supply every single day when you cut that in half over time just in general it makes just immediately first off. bitcoin becomes more rare. It's harder to get even the most basic level. When the moment it goes from twelve to the six it's already rare? There's six less bitcoin being put into the market per block per quote unquote around about an hour. Right that's a big deal and and this is the conversation me and Adam are going to have today. Adam I want you kind of give us your thoughts or at least tell me about what you think how this is going to be viewed and at what point are people are going to start taking this seriously. Why is it bearish? What is the sentiment doing right now? Why what would make people believe that? BITCOIN is is low for honest reasons. So I think I think what's going on right now is starting to see a little bit of minor capitulation occurring BITCOIN prices Kinda low for For what how many ashes. The current BITCOIN ASTEROID is a couple of days ago. We actually tapped the Alzheimer's again for bitcoin cash right about at about one hundred and fourteen exa ashes which is incredible. Focus on if you think about during the two thousand seventeen bull run on Energie. Mom I lead with the amount of Hash rate that we've increased exponential senators crazy. I would have to pull up the chart But I believe it's somewhere in the in the neighborhood. I think we're at like seven to ten extra hashes back then and now we're at like one hundred and fourteen so I mean we we've gone up ten to fifteen times what we previously flee where and it's not like the price appreciate ten to fifteen x from twenty thousand dollars. So why are these miners. Why are these people that are sending real Fiat real money developing infrastructure structure and mining facilities and putting all this money towards it if the rewards are getting less? If they don't think appreciate it it's GonNa go. It would make sense financially for them so you have to think about all these large operations that have invested so much money into these infrastructures and what their end game is there were they wanna be able to. I mean all these mining operations want to be able to mind as much bitcoin as they can as as possible. So they're gonNA try to squeeze small guys out of possible on so that they can capitalize on the having a what's coming up so you know we're getting close to the happening event right now. We're getting to the point. Where for small-time Myers With Bay may be just at break even or maybe even slightly a little bit under right now where the prices? And if these miners these miners can dump it. Hard enough to force these smaller miners out and getting too late. Then they can start taking over that Hash right and you know you know. Get the the the the benefits moving forward. Sure you know what's so interesting using also is you know as having sounds great to us but if your mind you're like Oh crap you know like oh no I mean especially if you're a small town or just a smaller minor if you can't be competitive in the bitcoin price stays the same especially think about it right now so say say it costs you seven seven thousand dollars currently to mind one bitcoin and then all of a sudden and the having comes and you're you know they cost double that all of a sudden It's GONNA cost fourteen thousand dollars now as opposed to you seven thousand dollars future pretty bitcoin so if the price doesn't you know respond to that if you're going to get squeezed out pretty quickly 'cause you're going to be losing money Yup Yup up no and that's a big deal that's a really big deal folks and of course you know. Nobody knows what the price is going to be a bitcoin year. Could it be lower. Sure I mean I'm not I'm not GonNa Pretend Mike I know everything or that. You know the Queen hasn't surprised me. You know every day at some point you know in in some capacity You know the traders will point to this. You know you have the the Hodler's and the Geez who've just been sitting there with a bunch of Bitcoin for a long time. Tell you that I mean everybody's got an opinion and a lot of it's based off of historical or or even a personal experiences with With with wet. Bitcoin is don what they witness but bitcoin is not a living breathing entity. BITCOIN is Is is a is at least the price. Of course we're speaking directly about price not Nestle's use case here but the the price of Bitcoin is is truly under a free market emphasis the price that people desire to buy or sell it at based off of the needs or the wants of that individual. And that it's a it's as much of a free market as you're ever going to see a high level. bitcoin is probably the last remark in that sense on a digital level. I think I could even say that. I don't I don't I don't know if that's even possible. If at this point with all the regulation all the people all the The rules in all the fear. You know that that existed McGee. Could you see anything else. Existing anything similar to this or something crazy like a similar type of decentralize bitcoin that was created in the same manner at the close trade. Is that what you're you're asking or maybe more so because of course anybody can create that. I guess I mean people are creating things that every day but can something like this exist starting today where this knowledge and maybe a different format very tough. I think I think Bitcoin is definitely a unique use. Use Case a unique scenario. So yeah I I agree with you. I think it'd be very difficult to sit to replicate this type of Decided successor the Senate environment that Bitcoin is achieved and also just to say this too. Is that because bitcoin exists. It's not going away anytime soon. Like bitcoin is going to continue to stand still at least in this us in this area not necessarily the price standstill but at least as a firm were here. We're not going anywhere. We're not an overly improving either but we're also sitting exactly exactly where we need to be which is right now but still thrown of the cryptocurrency world but you know governments are on the lookout for this now all right. I mean the big brother the the people whether you're in China where the United States whether you're you know in the Amazon rainforest people are digitally watching you via the Internet because information is processed through there and through some sort of entity that is going to capture data. And know what you're doing and so there's something that's starting to get really popular someone's going to hear about it maybe start paying attention to it. Maybe not even maliciously. But you're going to be scrutinized at more than I don't WanNa hear this too far off topic but I guess why this is important to me. Is that Bitcoin to me. Is Humanity's entities last hope and a lot of ways to be able to do something without needing a CEO or a or some- you know Federal Reserve chairman or or some person making a decision that can affect negative negatively. You know the people who are the users and that day and age is very close to being completely lately over as far as new opportunities that way at a high level and this is why you know adamant I both agree on this. Is that bitcoins. Going to become more and more rare. I it's a fact more users are still coming in. It's not like people are leaving at a super high rate. If that was the case we wouldn't be at seven thousand dollars today folks we had everybody dumped back at sixty bucks and I personally really want folks to remember holding. Still at this price at this value is a big deal Adam. What's what's what is going to be? The biggest reason why people start remembering paying attention that bitcoin is probably not as bad as you might think not you but the person who thinks barish once the media gets back involved you know then the phone starts and then you know if a new all time high than it's just it's going to be the same as that sense it doesn't Ford Seventy back off to the races in my opinion because people are going to get that that foam on that that crazy sentiment that we had before and in my opinion we have much more infrastructure built this time we have just the beginnings of some of the institutions getting on board. We have all these future options that are going on. So there's a lot more there's a lot more to be said that's built in these past. You know three three years since the previous front and my favorite thing and Charlie. Charlie Sharon told me this when I when I spoke with him on when I did with him is that it's not something. I hadn't unheard before. But he really put it in perspective. Adam and you can agree and you're living breathing proof of this And that is you know. The foundations of the next cycle are really early built during these bear markets and the big companies that good companies the ones that have honest in real use case. The ones that will succeed the ones that people need need the ones that can fill the void of we. Don't have this yet or this makes it easier or better you know. That's what is being built today and Bravo coin is is is a great example of that. You know we have a problem with you. Know as Yelp goes I mean there you go just go google bad review bad. Yelp you know bad things that yelps go into the movie billion dollar bully. There's actually a documentary. That's on Amazon. Prime that merger bought the rights to that literally just talks exclusively about how. Oh Yep extorts small businesses they have over ten thousand claims against the naturally and obviously there's a lot goes into your reasoning behind Bravo coined. But I I think it's fair to say that you know that you're a good dude and that you've seen that this is a problem and you've been you know subjected to these things and some capacity or the next thing you know you're not unique and those people who have probably ten thousand times worse experiences with Yeltsin than you could even maybe even imagine or outside of the fact that you're you've created something very similar but And Conversely folks I have huge admiration for for Adam and I think that what he's he and his team built is is a great not just use case but it's great for people to have this option. It's not just a use case folks. It's something that is necessary to get an honest perspective of something it doesn't require are a lot of brain power or to be super smart to realize when when money's involved in these transactions or when when a company can can benefit off of Oh holding something back from you and extorting you to a certain extent as Adam just mentioned you know they will eventually like it's it's it's a it's agreed game folks folks. People are getting rich off of opinions and where people have to go. An- Anna my first off as you know and as I stated I've got so much respect for what you built but how is this these. How is this visors the future? Like what is I mean. Obviously I ha I know the answer to this. I want you to explain this. Why is this so important? Why what what does it actually do for folks it's all about decentralisation and taking the power out of these you know these corporate behemoths that are using your data? They're abusing your privacy and then they're monetize it and you're not getting any kind of it at all and for the record folks. I Know Adam. You're answering it this way but just for your perspective. He's not just simply talking about his own project. Here he's talking about decentralisation in general whether we're talking about social media whether we're talking about finance whether we're talking about the Internet in general and DNS pick pick one you know there's all these central points that you have to run through and they're the gatekeepers of everything whether it's Google with their playstore apple you know with their store. Not only in Crypto APPs in you know in all of a sudden you're banned from the apple ecosystem by by creating these decentralized alternatives where the corporations don't have any control anymore but it's the community and the people who have control and they're the ones sign what's going to be the greater good for the community. I mean that's that's the whole purpose of decentralisation aware this movement needs to go and basically it's a matter of taking away the power from from these these corporations and putting the power back and even the power back to the people so that they can take control of their data again control their privacy and then if they want you to monetize data data for their own benefit if they choose to absolutely you know I look at you know what twitter Youtube facebook. I mean. There's a lot of great things at the all these entities have done for folks. I mean the the expansive amounts of communication information opportunities to learn Friendships relationships built off. The foundation of I would never have been able to communicate or connect what this entity. This person this this information had it not been for facebook or for Youtube. I mean the bad doesn't have to be lost in the dozen to be lost in all the bat but this is getting dangerous as far as liberty and freedom go. I personally finally have very very very specific reasons why I have fallen in love with decentralized blockchain applications and it's because I'm not looking at today and I'm not looking at last week. I'm looking at ten years from now. I've got a child. I want my child to have the opportunity to be an individual to you to express their freedom and that doesn't necessarily mean. Oh because I have an opinion about this political party or this person or this this this football team it is because because they shouldn't have to decide whether or not they're going to be ostracized by an entity or a government or somebody. You have to remember that freedom. Freedom of speech doesn't only apply to you know to one entity or one one street corner it applies to humans in the United States as a right given given from birth this does not exist on the Internet. There is no constitution for the Internet and those laws they can be. They can be manipulated in red red tape and they can do all sorts of things to make it harder for us as individuals for us as humans on a novice speaking on a worldwide level here. But you know go look at China China and how they've truly truly suppressed conversations about anything they don't disagree with both on the Internet and as humans go and you know. I'm not saying that the United States is perfect. Or if it's if it will be always great or if it's if it's going to be good tomorrow it doesn't matter. It's that this opportunity for us to take control of this. Problem exists today and that problem is getting easier to solve. It's becoming far more intricate. Far More designed stronger. Anger Smarter every single minute. That is collecting your data. They're getting to know you and figure you out more in that data's coming back and it's allowing these companies these entities to be able to use. I use you for whatever they WANNA use. Adam you said it best second you know. We're we're all we're all subjected to this right. And we we ORC. We're okay with some of it like I'm still okay. I don't mind putting my information until you know I got a new computer. I mean I got a new a new printer and they want my email address. Can you know that doesn't bother me. But when they start trying to track how many pages I'm printing per month that's a different story. What do they how do they click this that it? Why do they know this right? That's that's a scary thought. Now I have the choice to use that or not use that obviously but this is not so dissimilar to what everybody's doing and I mean truly. I literally got a new printer for of Christmas. Right Adam and I can sign up so I can have INC sent to my house and you may or may not be familiar with. I think it's hp you know but what. What are they collecting data the actually collecting? How many pages I print are they literally? Is there something. That's transmitting. What I printed to them? I can't your printed levels looking at the the HP Tillett self reporting Yet the question you know how much they're reporting back of what's being what's actually being shared. It's like you said you know. Sometimes I'm okay with with that that data being shared and sometimes I'm I'm completely against it now in your opinion is are we too far past has the blockchain the answered all this. Obviously I think it is but you know you're you're dead. You understand this at a different level. The like what is. What's your thoughts? I think blockchain is true going to affect about ninety five percent of the industries that that are out there right now in terms of how radical either gonNA affect them. Obviously that that's up for discussion But but I feel that I feel that blockchain is GonNa it's GonNa it's GonNa change a lot of things and you're going to start seeing these alternatives that are gonNA exist and in my opinion you're gonNA have You're going to have corporations that are either GonNa they're gonNA have to decide to either. You know a joint on board and adopted and and and you know Dr Percy's Dot blockchain technology or they're going to be left by the wayside right and they're they're going to become antiquated. I believe in my in my opinion if they don't if they don't have on this emerging technology and the beautiful thing about that is it's all related right and were were. We're we're sitting here. We saw show. We're talking about bitcoin. What's happening with having we're talking about you know the price of Bitcoin what makes people bearish? And then you know this conversation ends up in this in in this context we're talking about you know now what are use cases. How does the blockchain? What is it GONNA do? How's IT affect us? How what is what is decentralize You know entities actually going going to benefit you know for me as a human and potentially as a as a business owner or whatever might be but it really comes down to the more credibility the blockchain gets the more useful it is people the more blockchain and Bitcoin specifically in this case will be taken and they'll be opportunities for not not just gaining wealth. Sustaining well because this deflationary is not going to be printed on top of although we are printing minting more bitcoin not we as individuals but as as as a as a network as as blockchain. There are more bitcoins. There's a day and it keeps getting smaller and smaller and it gets less and less and this is going to absolutely absolutely be around for for several decades if not for one hundred years. I don't anticipate Bitcoin not making it to twenty one forty or whatever it is when Bitcoin is minute I. I would highly expect that to be the case when bitcoins only minting one. Bitcoin per block at El Nino. If that's one of the mathematical figures that having gets too but if it gets to that point or one point five it's going to be worth a lot of money folks like who else would be not mining this stuff at a point zero and we're having we're going to be at one point. Something it is that we're not. We're not that far away from that. No really it's totally real and you know it's GonNa be. It's like any new emerging industry. You'RE GONNA have. You'RE WE'RE GONNA have businesses that are going to realize the potential that even though this is a decentralized technology that there's still an opportunity for them to make money utilizing or harnessing technology and whether it's integrating integrating into their existing product lines or adapting their new product lines to support this. They're still we're capitalistic society. So you know there's gotta be businesses that are GONNA exist and they're going to figure out how to harness this technology and they're going to be the ones that are going to succeed. It's the ones that are going to try to dampen it and you know and not get on board or they're the ones that are gonna be left behind then beautifully said also you know. Bitcoin is is really considered. A speculative in very volatile asset right. I mean we even people that own bitcoin. They don't look got it as this is actually where something folks it the Bitcoin that you own. Whatever amount you whether? It's point one if it's wants what it costs money to to make that it costs four dollars value it. There's value behind as an intrinsic value based on the cost of electricity costs of power. Whatever they use to create the power to turn on the computer that minor on and allow that that minor to actually mine and put the put the power in that is A? That's a real thing. Yeah real world you can go to. There's a there's a cool website and go to call crypto compare and you can plug in your power is and basically in your your power rate is and it will tell you how much you can mind based upon that and how much it's GonNa cost you to mine X.. Amount of Bitcoin so that you can actually see what your true cost was like. If you're mining come in your house to Michael Thank you can actually see what the amount of literacy that goes into the men of compute power that goes into it and figure out you know. That's that's money involved. That's that's the effort that's been exerted. It's no different different in my mind that someone who's going to you know mine in their mind for golder there depending for silver. That's right that's right. Now you go and tell the minor. Hey Look my assets speculative and they're not gonNA agree with you they're going to say the exact opposite they're like look. I just spent seven thousand dollars times. You know twenty to mine and these bitcoin this year and you're telling me that it's not real that there's no value behind bitcoin on the value like I'm the one who paid to make sure that these bitcoins were made right and they have have to have a buyer and there's got to be people behind it to continue that market but that market is only getting bigger. It's only finding more uses and as more people figuring figuring out that I use that they use case works for them and nothing in my opinion. Nothing if you if you live on the border of two countries that are constantly doing business you can go across the line maybe work over there. But it's a different currency like like Mexico in the United States. Can you could you ever to figure out a reason why it would make sense to be sending you know Bitcoin or be taking your money and Bitcoin the majority of your money's spent and And you know in in. US dollars in your Mexican or vice versa. Whatever it might be that use case is one of the most simple in real use cases in the world? I mean the Chinese you know you want versus versus the Japanese currency. I guess it's one as well. Well yet excuse me and and the or the South Korea who might be right. There's so many different reasons. Why at this makes sense? And there's also no way that you can call you. Know like the call Zuckerberg sit on stands shutting it down. I mean the worst thing that hit ever happened to bitcoin. In my opinion what if if Bitcoin is going to get driven down to close to zero or very very very little price that'd be because the US government limited or specific large government banned the use of it which would be extremely hard to do but it it gets to the point where a legitimate people would say. I don't really want to interact or transact with us. If it's legal I can and get in trouble for it. I would say that's pretty much the only thing that can happen so it's a really devalued bitcoin but still like even in that I mean how many. US residents or contributing to the price of Bitcoin. Today I would say it's minimal and a lot of ways thinks it's a lot higher than people think just because of the wealth level in the United States on on what you're saying in terms of actual usage. I would say intern in terms of capital. Put in I would think the. US puts a significant capital in terms of widespread usage and adoption in other countries. There's definitely more widespread adoption They just don't have the wealth doubles that that the US has. And that's something that I want to touch. Upon is that at the majority of the world they don't have bank accounts. The majority of the world lives under dictators that that steal their money and are corrupted and rape and pillage their their families and their their properties what they own and living in the United States. Or even if you're in other countries you're on like a sort of bubble you don't realize that. How Revolutionary Inari? Bitcoin is to these types of these environments. And because we've never experienced that before but it's revolutionary for these types environments like people in Venezuela Ella Boulevard has gone up three million percent you know inflation rates or in Turkey. where I'm you know? As soon as the The steel tariffs were announced the lira drop instantly instantly like twenty percent in a day so if these other countries that you know you're like these other countries that you bet that that they need. bitcoin need this type of technology to help themselves against the corrupt governments in these types of the Inflation occurs and not to mention the fact that you know this type of of interaction or at least this type of respect respect for a for a currency that can be you know pretty much accepted worldwide gold and it's and it's already a format in which we can relate late the way that bitcoin is not only accepted but valued by by other countries and they can value in whatever capacity. They want to in their own in their own currency but as a worldwide. Why you're gonNA find a very small discrepancy on what what gold is actually worth? Because it's already accepted. It's already well. Now think about this folks when when you know you have a certain amount of money. Let's say you were able to save a thousand dollars every year for ten years and that ten thousand dollars sitting there and yeah you you put maybe maybe not in your bank your investing a thousand dollars a year and that's a wonderful thing and I highly encourage everybody be very diversified and you know the stock market's been great especially recently it goes up But the stock market will come back down and it will level out or it will go. We'll go into recession at some point again. You know it's it's a market. There's a market cycle to it. It's not because it's cyclical exactly right and you know someone who is retiring in two thousand eight you know. You had a really really unfortunate unlucky situation nation if you're someone who was starting the career starting to invest early on or maybe halfway through you know you're you're you're maybe junior level or early senior level management and you're starting to actually be on invest in Romani. What a perfect time to start investing right so it's all relative to your situation now that being said you know no matter what you save no matter what you do no no matter what time period the market works at some point if it's not monthly or Berkeley or even yearly the? US government's GonNa come on top of your ten thousand dollars saved no matter how much money you've made. They're going to print money on top of that and they're going to print it again. And they're going to devalue the US dollar by inserting another another dollar every dollar they insert into these circular circulation of the US currency It values what you have now. Keep keep adding adding trillions of dollars are at least billions of dollars a year. I don't know how you know they're actually putting money in. I should probably know that number but folks. This is a real problem and every time a dollars added in and every time you're devalued it's that much harder you have to work in. It's that much less that you're going to have at the end of the day. It might seem like more money in numbers but it's really less value. How much the price of milk? Now what was it thirty years ago. Why how and those? US dollars that you're leaving in your bank account that are just continually continually losing. They're losing value constantly especially if they're not invested in something that Lisa is gaining more interest that than the inflation rate no agreed great and there are ways to counteract crowd counter that you know and obviously you know if you'd saved A million dollars up to a certain point in your life you know forty fifty years ago. So you'd be living as a millionaire for you know sometime you could. You could sustain in live a retirement life off that today I guess all to sustain a add to sustain a just a working class Middle America. It's like two and a half million dollars to live on the basics in it's like six million live at the higher you know upper middle class at this point or that's what my generation can anticipate having to to have at the end of the day and which is your generation as well. Obviously now think about this folks. Think about the exact opposite when when money starts coming out of the out of the Treasury right. What if they started burning money what are they just started taking in? US dollars literally like once a month and just burned twenty five billion dollars a month. I mean that would increase the the the value of the US dollar you. You know when we're at least talking about gold It would drastically make a difference in how the the US dollar was able to be to be valued and how much success as long term the US dollar be able to sustain at this rate. It's going to be worth pennies on the dollar at some point. They're just injecting more and more and all it takes is one of these as you know Middle Eastern countries and Adam. I don't know how much you even want to get into this. But one of these Middle Eastern countries countries actually does what they finally say they've been doing they're going to do and create own currency and then and you know trade oil only in that currency whether that's you know the Middle Eastern coin or whether it's Bitcoin or whether that's just a ounce of gold physical gold that would that it would be a big blow it would. It'd be huge. I mean you know I. In my opinion the the days of US dollar dominance is going to continue to go down in my opinion. And actually it's interesting. There's a Of Bank research article came out. I think in the last two or three weeks Where they do like a ten year look ahead? And that's actually one of the main things that they said was that they see the devaluation of the dollar continuing and they have real legitimate questions of whether in ten years from now the US dollar is going to be the world's reserve currency. I mean. Can you blame him. Like I can see that. I've never done enough research to even have a true opinion. I can't write paper on it and I know for a fact that we're putting too much money. As an American. Our government has in. This is not unique to Donald. Trump is not unique to Obama. Just Nico Bush. It's the way our economy as gone in eventually. We're taking on a gold standard so when we were taking off the gold standard. There's nothing to tie it to. They were just like hey we. It's a free for all it's not tight anything that any specific asset we sprint. However much and I believe the number something like I think in immolate nine hundred ninety s or early two thousand I think there was one point two trillion roughly enough circulating? US dollars in the in the money supply. And I think now we're over the three trillion so we've almost we've tripled it since we can feel it right. I mean we can feel that when we go to the grocery store we can feel that when we have to pay rent. We can feel that when we're going wing in you know although I would say that that salaries and the average you know way of making money is probably increase on. How much Iraq has? But I don't think it's appreciated associated fast at you. Know as as the destruction on the value of the dollar as I mean ahead issue one hundred thousand dollars when I was growing up was like the standard to have an upper middle class. Yeah Yeah I mean you make one hundred thousand dollars. I mean that's what I mean. Roughly around eight nine thousand dollars a month you can raise a family. You could buy a house. You can probably two car payments but nowadays I mean that's almost I don't want to call it poverty because that'd be way way embellish statement but it would it would still be struggling at that point point. You know you're not you're not well off anymore at that point. I mean you're not doing horrible but you're not well off and goes far say you can. You can argue all day about the political side of this. I mean both sides of the same exact thing period. There's very little difference in how they've approached this growth of or at least the debt. Ah A huge issue with monetary fiscal this necessary policy the policy regarding what side. You're on exactly right. It's the same. There's very little you can not you specifically specifically Adam but anybody can come up to me and convince me. Unless it's Ron Paul. Sitting there running for president. I believe that his goal would have been to to to fix that issue. But but going forward you know. I don't look at this as you noticed as a good thing and I don't see the sustained success that we've had this is going to come to a tipping point where we're going to have have to recognize there's a problem. And how is that going to be fixed folks. And what options do you have today. Now obviously investing in diversifying assets. I would I recommend that you know there's a business model. That's that's worked for humans. In the United States specially but all over to be able to invest. And I go. I'm not trying to give you financial advice that way. This is not financial advice in that way this is just pointing out the fact that there are several ways to build to build wealth go talk to investment professional in that. But what I what I will tell you is that bitcoin in gold have a lot of similarities. As in the ways that you can put your assets somewhere else now Adam what is bitcoin price from its inception sixty five thousand percent I believe is the value return in every day. Every time that it goes up you know I. It's it's just continues to just blow my mind that something can be that successful that was that was built essentially essentially with very little upfront investment. I I can't imagine what Toshi built cost him a lot of money. I don't think it probably did. And he also he's. He's got a million bitcoin sitting in his pocket. Somewhere for shame right or or they Well but you know or sitting at the point where we can we can look at gold and we can look at Bitcoin and we can find a lot of similarities and feel free to disagree with me if I say something you don't Nestle think I'm more than happy to that's why we're this discussions discussions even happening. But I can't see a way where people won't start. I mean this is the digital age. MILLENNIALS are starting to come into this position there during the thirties. Now or they're going to be in their thirty s very soon. You know technology's very normal to them. They're very skeptical of of their privacy. That a lot of its intruded on. We're paying attention to those things but it's also something. They know that they have to not not ever use it again. They have to adapt to it and Bitcoin is going to be very familiar and very normal for them very soon. And I personally believe that if you're not paying attention if you're not taking bitcoins price very seriously on a lot of long-term level I mean anything can happen. I don't see a way that this this mathematical formula as people entered as the as the amount that gets gets poured into the BITCOIN supply continues. Not The supply will continue to go up a measly amount of time compared to anything else but it will continue to be more and more rare more people are using it not as much as getting put in. This is a big deal folks. This is the opposite acidic. Every major institutional financial institutional thing you've ever seen it's literally the exact opposite and it's going to be huge and and what you actually said is actually basically you basically just described stop. The flow model is what you described and stop the flow. Basically states that the amount of time that it takes to produce produce what is currently the The current output the amount of years today sleep Basically so gold right now has a stop flow of sixty two years so basically to produce in mind all all the goal that was in the that's in the world currently it would take sixty two years and that's why gold is a store of value schedule Gold scarce silber is a Stop the flow right now. Twenty wanting to Bitcoin at the current twelve point five. bitcoin block rewards has stopped afloat twenty-five as soon as it hits the having it doubles at it goes to fifty immediately. Which is pretty close to two gold sixty two then four years after that? We're going to be at one hundred a soccer flourish if we continue along this path. And and and here's to that model we're GONNA to be at one. Hundred would actually super super simple mobile ratio. Silver is that low about twenty to stop to flow copper for is like a one palladio platinum. All those are very easy to produce. And that's why that's why the price doesn't that makes sense. I mean obviously you're silver still being that close to gold in relative terms. That's so close in for the price of silver. It almost seems like she. She silver may be cheap. And you know if you think about silver actually seems to have more application uses Industry technology than goal does probably the reason why is not valued as high as it's cheaper and that would make sense to work with an makes sense and I'm okay with that you know that doesn't hurt my feelings. I think silver sounds cheap when you say that way though by the way so it's actually interesting if you've if you've been watching gold and silver spot prices today they've actually been moving a little bit I checked investable of hours of gold. Voila popped hop above fifteen hundred by. which is a key critical level And I think gold was about eighteen. Actually it looks like they both Kinda broke out of a You know a descending interesting so it's interesting I think you're GonNa Start to see these essential Gold and silver are those are the first to centralize assets in writing a centralized assets gold silver go up and naturally you know is should be able to respond the same way because why are people hedging and why people investing ballgame destiny silver over because they don't trust the current world economy in what's going on and they're trying to go into their hedging their bet and they're investing in stores evaluate. They feel. That aren't GonNa lose as much funny. I as theocracies so let me ask you at them. I mean and obviously again and I want to say very clearly me and Adam are having a conversation in fact we were on the phone phone and I was like at a stop talking. Let's just record this because this is so much I'm enjoying having this conversation with you. And a is that true that he's not in other words. We're doing this live. Let's let's let's go ahead and record this and again you know at my respect and my appreciation for your thoughts in the way that you're able to to relate eight your Your your statements to or old and in really even you know As as the different person that comes into the conversation or the different entity that it's coming in you're able to to evolve the conversation properly with honest and ten obviously not a manipulative way but With honest intent. You're able to speak to just just about anybody about really about anything I mean. There's nothing that we've ever talked about that you're just like I don't have an opinion on what that would be on any top but you know I I see you know really folks were very very fortunate and at my question to you is I mean is is bitcoin price lower than it should be. I mean take away the speculation aspect of it you know and obviously you get a pretty much get a a very very very calm and gradual increase but speculation is part of this and obviously it could be up and now are we. Where are we where we should be? Are we to hire we too low. Let me and Mike You know factor in all things considered what what are your. What's your thoughts on where the market stand? You ought to give certain prices should necessarily but John in my opinion opinion and and judge a lot of this just based upon how close we are to the having. I think we're a little bit lower than where we should be right now. I think legitimately we should be a little bit higher If you look look to you know what the cost is to mind one. bitcoin overall overall average across the world were were not too far off from the actual price right now and you put that into you know and the new East coupling. We met with the facts that the having is coming up on and we have lightning the lightning network and all these new advances. I I think I think we're a little bit on on the cheap side and thinking about the stock and flow model and how that all goes back to the having where you know this is literally getting cut in half. I'm yeah I think it's I think it's a little low in you know whether this is manipulation that's going on or this is just markets sentiment and what people actually think that the market values of Bitcoin is is a discussion sure. No I can't wait name especially over the last four years I would say at them you know. BITCOIN has become popular enough with the average person where you know. There's a lot of a lot of things are on record down. You know back in the day when you know a lot of these conversations and these these thoughts about bitcoin or cryptocurrency in general you know were happening in back rooms or you know even you. You know in secret rooms on the Internet where the conversations are gone forever or they've been Oeste and nowadays you know were were a lot more accountable Because you've got to have your real face out there not everybody obviously. There's a lot of people on twitter etc that that have a huge following that very well being very anonymous nonce as possible But you know to look forward. Did you know ten years from now when I'm sitting here. Hopefully they'll you know doing something. BITCOIN radio Go back and just check on like some of the predictions. People won't have come on the show like yeah. Bitcoin can never get eight hundred thousand and I and I personally. I see no issues with bitcoin. Getting to one hundred thousand Nike. I do see somewhat logistical in really. Even some you know market cap issues as we we get any higher than that. I'm not saying we can't get a million and I'm not saying that we're going to get two million. I do believe it has that potential just based off of you know what bad things happen you know. And that's not Nestle. Actually my goal. I don't necessarily want the economies to I don't want the United States economy for invested. In accent I live here way more. US dollars than than I do bitcoin so now if it goes down trust me that's not good for. It's not good for him. What really know? And you know going back to that about academies failing and you know just the amount of time that takes some of these things to happen And you think about how long we've been. The four is now going into how much money we've been we've been pumping into you know inflating and printing dollars and the reason people's thinking that may it may not feel maybe this is just like a sustainable strategy that they've employed in In my opinion we've seen it with other governments with other economies. That are much smaller. The reason why this has been going off such a long period of time is because we're so big that it's GonNa take long time for for it's actually fail in my opinion. There's gotta be some sort of major catalyst analysts event that's going to occur. And then in my opinion the cars are going to be come crashing down. There's GonNa be some major Fiscal reforms that go on whether you know going back to the gold standard or whatever that may be There's GONNA be changes to be made and I don't think that's going to happen until you gotTa have this. You know this catastrophic event that occurs of course folks. It's not you the American. If you're American you're not an American. Obviously I am actually kind of referencing you. But it's not you the American folks that that tells us if our dollar is becoming having less valuable right me and Adam can sit here and play poker in dollars a dollar and we we don't see any other way But you go now. You're producing all of a sudden you're producing you. You know some sort of material and it's coming from like part of what you're you're building requires some some stuff from China or from Japan or from somewhere somewhere else in your. It's always been one hundred dollars per whatever you know for for lot. An all of a sudden it's one hundred five dollars. Well it's not because it got more expensive for them. Maybe it did. And that's possibly maybe they got a new tax pay over there but you know putting that part aside when you see that happening you start realizing my dollars. Not Nearly worth what it was does yesterday at some point that starts happening where another currency that maybe more stable or maybe more have have more strength behind it you know that currency starts overtaking the dollar and you know the great British pound I think is a is an anomaly in all this but you can take the euro and say the euro's Oh stronger than the US dollar. I mean it is one for one you know the euro. I don't know what the the the exchange rate but it's a big deal when you start seeing it continued to drop now sometimes it gains and they Konami Konami has been on fire. I don't want to take anything away. From what the economy's doing but were still subjected to this printing and Bitcoin cryptocurrency blockchain. They they are here to pave another path an away around this and Adam Willing. Let's get into all coins a little bit here as the bitcoin market goes when people have extra money they tend to WanNa get greedy and expand on on their diversification within even KRIPO world. You know next thing you know a theorems going back up and I And I will not buy into the fact that people think that going back down to five dollars you can feel free to disagree with me. But I don't think it's going to five dollars. There's too much there's too much corporate interests in a theory you know when you have JP and building quorum based on a theory. I'm technologies and all these other corporations that are literally utilizing either a theory in public building. Their own private rankling not going anywhere. You're not to mention the fact also to sorry to cut you off there but not to mention that it's already established itself as a legitimate cryptocurrency Z.. Honest say what you want about the network. The Shit works it works. It may not work as fast as you want. It may not work in every single circumstance that they they may have intended the two but as a concept a theorem does work anyway sorry and ninety five percent of the stable coins that are issued are issued on a theory so that too. And when when when you have all these tablecloths that are actually used to buy bickering and used by these cryptos he's got to realize that a thermos not really going anywhere. I mean you like tether. Now has a Tron tron pair that's printed but I mean in in. I'm not worried about that. In terms of the actual volume in the end the amounts that are that are there to these other networks the dwarfs it yup exactly right okay so as coin market which folks it will. There will be a moment in time when this humongous downward spiral spiral. That have been in that the good ones recover they get out of it. I can't tell you. Why traders do it this way they all band together? There's make sense out of it with all these lines kinds of numbers. I'll do it too right. It's you know it's market cap. It's all market cap and small order books and have it. It's no different than you know. Stanley trade stocks stocks on Enough money you can manipulate these markets and especially because they're not regulated. You can do with without fear that you know you're GonNa there's going to be there'll be repercussions for it so so you have to manipulate. It's honestly that's a that's A. It's very hard for me to not you personally. I say the same work but it's not truly manipulation manipulation. I mean it's my intent is for my price to go up or down so you you're only you're at the mercy of. What do you actually really feel in your heart? Are you technically doing this to hurt other people in to make yourself more money you sign up today and then tomorrow right I mean that's a relative term and I and and it's a free market folks can do whatever the fuck they want to do. So I mean I. There's a lot of people. Obviously that are most people are in this for financial monetary gains so. In my opinion opinion. There's always gonna be people that are going to try to manipulate the markets in their favor. Especially there is some way to to achieve a monetary gain doing wild west exactly. And when you have you know when you have these coins that that are just so illiquid an so thinly traded that you can as a whale you come in and be like. Wow you know I'm gonNA come in here and take half a bitcoin and tank this thing. Sixty percent percent. Because I can just I see I see the entire orderbook right now and I can just bring it down to this and then I'm going to scoop it up and we're going to spike it back. I need when when you start having you know it's no different than these silly trade OTC penny stocks. The same exact thing occurs. You know there's pump and dump schemes all that type of thing goes on Roy and and what eliminates or what starts to mitigate these types of issues is as you start having more volume as you start having more adoption where people being involved and you can even see. That's already starting to happen with Bitcoin over the years bitcoin manipulate. We have these large swings. But I remember when did I came out and they were like thirty or forty percents today so that was normal one time a year regularly in gradually really as you move on as more volume increases as more players in the market as Bitcoin is distributed. More there's not as many centralize Wales you're going to start to see that volatile is gonNA GONNA go down you're not gonNA have that is crazy swings. No absolutely well said you know. I'll never forget my first major mistake in Crypto and I don't remember that which point it was was but I bought a and I've used this this now or not analogy but I've used this example on the other side the good side but I remember buying one of these really low cap you know. Oh it's probably six associated seventy-two she's I can't marry exactly about over five or six or seven and you know where I sold it at like an idiot. I didn't itself missile at this but I sold it at like four loss like four Saito. She's took like a thirty percent loss. Whatever I'M GONNA get into some of the coin but by the time it finished selling it guess where it was? I mean there's just there's nothing in between the down to or something exactly right exactly and so. I filled somebody's bags and then within twenty five minutes. It's back at veto. She's great six. I'm just like man. I'm such an idiot and it was a valuable lesson. Fortunately we're talking like one hundred twenty dollars worth of bitcoin which was a lot more today. Hey than it was back then but But the point remains is that you're right a lot of these coins that we've been subjected into or been had the opportunity to get involved with on these these markets. You can see that these exchanges are cleaning them up their their. Their accountability is getting more intense Not because they're trying to be more accountable and save you know they want you to be able to trade whatever you WANNA trade. I personally believe that you know like finance and you know the team over there. They're not necessarily trying to make your life suck in Crypto. They're trying to make money for themselves. I believe they're capitalist. Just like business going to have to rules are rules folks and there's rules for a reason and I don't disagree with rules. I don't think that we should live in anarchy and not have anybody to to to have to answer the answer to I think it's a a professionally important for the space to to attract people that we have some. You know some guidelines in that we are sensible enough to realize lies. Hey there are some reasons. You don't have to worry about a lot of these regulations folks Hodler right if you're holding your bitcoin. If you're someone WHO's here for the space who wants it to get better bigger you know. Invite people in by by making them feel like it's not going to be some major pumps game. How do you do that? We'll put some security behind it. Make these exchanges accountable for the coins. They they list and not take you know. I mean at one point folks and I don't want to say that maybe it wasn't necessarily binavince as entity entity doing this but people that were in charge of these decision. Makings your decisions. That were made were taking a large amounts of Bitcoin to list. Lord I it's definitely play yes and and sometimes it's not even just bitcoin. They're taking. They're taking a specific percentage of your overall circulating supply arm. There is a story that came out recently. Doubt did you buy and how they wanted to get listed on finance and finance asking for three percent of their overall circulating supply. No Man you know. And by NANCE has the they've got the swing. It's interesting though. You know how we how you know we're we're in this for decentralisation were in it too so we don't create these you know these corporate Buenos that that that abuse us is so. That's a valid question is by getting too big is does finance centralized the industry too much or I can tell you this. I don't trade on Binavince and I haven't and probably I mean I don't want to say having not finance the. US Yes yes but but you know for a specially for this point. I have never been a big finance user. And there's been several reasons for that not because I think finance is doing something wrong but I don't necessarily want want to trade outside of US companies just on an individual. Like I can pay my taxes. I don't WanNa. I'm not trying to circumvent the law. You know if I go in there and make a trade on Beatrix. It's I'm very easy for me to be able to do it. And then dipped to be accountable when it comes time to hand it over to skippy. And they're like. Oh Yeah Joe you this show and it it. It just centralize is how much each information I gotta go out and you'll get that kind of centralization doesn't hurt my feelings but does hurt my feelings. What does pissing off that me and you do care that finance is getting too day and everybody else is still in it for ulterior motives or not? I mean most people here because they want to make some money but they're doing it in a way that's negatively affecting. I'm not against finance finances. A rock and they've they've driven a ton of adoption. Young people have Michigan State. But it's actually a lot of adoption so I got nothing but respect for him. Some people hate him. Some people love him. He's yeah he's a bit and you can hate it. You can't default for that. I mean He. He saw an opportunity. He saw that there were exchanges. That didn't live up to the standard and he created in exchange. That was better than the rest of twenty seventeen. Not like they've been around since two thousand nine hundred and he he just hit it at. I mean we talked about this earlier actually on the phone about how in this industry you can just hit it at the exact right time and hit the ground running and in stride. You could really go crazy here. Dude I remember Polonius right pillow. The troll box. Yeah uh-huh actually back here but it is but it's not the same right. I mean I can't tell you how many times I went to troll box to see what people were saying before a lot of schilling exactly a you go to the troll box get like insider info what people were Schilling Yup and when you saw a bunch of back then it was a lot easier to predict what people's intentions were or I mean like if I mean they wanted it either go up or they wanted to go down now you gotta worry about like are they trying to sell me their coins. You know like there's just there's just so much more that you have to worry about anybody tells me anything you know Unless you're project founder and you're trying to pitch me your project you know as a whole and this happens you know forty times a month at this point You know that's a different. That's a different perspective. That somebody who believes in the company who wants success. I don't mind them showing me their shit. You know like that's an honest reason. Why but it's the people people who have no connection to the projects that are just back holders sued go by this coin? It's GONNA go up and I'm like I I can promise you if anybody gives me any information like that I automatically will never buy it. Cause I don't WanNa be subjected to you know Inside information or anything but people coming. Oh this is what's happening next and I'll be all four. That's awesome awesome man. Sounds like a great opportunity. But I'm not going to go in subject myself to you. I mean I'm an American I'm subjected to. You'RE GONNA have to be held accountable. And there's a lot of people going down right now ally at targeting a lot of people but you know what's cool about this type of technology is that a lot. This technology is open source so you can actually see beforehand. What's going on sometimes before it's like being fully committed into a project me like you may be monitoring this one proximity like? Oh look there's a cool update that's coming down the pipeline that hasn't been merged into the official branch yet but it's in the development Braxton's coming along the online. And you're you're you know you're doing your own due diligence that you're doing in your own research to figure out what's GonNa what's GonNa make it in what's not gonNa make it so true so true and you know you're seeing this from the the person number one you've been in tech for pretty much your life your entire life. Maybe even noted that you were getting into tech as a kid but but as a kid and but you watch tech evolve. You've watched things happen. And still you found reasons to not only believe in what Bitcoin crypto and blockchain offer but to now take part in it. And that's one of the reasons why I respect you so much. Your perspectives Serbs have encompassed tack and in its glory days right were were still in those glory days in the Golden Age of Tech. Where it's still you know if you WANNA undo it? Go do it right. You got a little bit more competition than you did twenty years ago but you can still do it today. And if you're doing great and you have the right people in this money everywhere especially so you've got a good project go pitch in Silicon Valley someone's liable to just hand you a million dollar. Check me like you know handshake. Here's a piece of paper with my signature on it. Make sure I get what I what I'm supposed to get you know. There's a lot of deals go down that way. I'm not saying it's super easy. But if you've got a good project it's not it's not hard to get it funded at least now. That being said Crypto and blockchain specifically offer an even easier route into this people and where there's opportunity to make money. Somebody's got to figure out how to do it right. You know. netflix comes in. Hey Blockbuster we want to sell you this for you know. Six million dollars blockbusters like I'm written movies out on a on a low. You think people are just GonNa sit their house and try to. There's no users for that. And then blockbusters out of business and now net flicks is almost getting old. Compared to what other people are doing. You know they. They may have made the same mistakes blockbuster of made in some ways. Now the Netflix great job. I am a subscriber. I will admit now you have all these companies that are copying netflix model. And then they're they're From having their titles on their Disney they they ripped off all their movies from Netflix. And you have. HBO and Netflix. Just there this is going to have to have all their own original content because no all these other networks are now starting to realize how much money and had like a You know but this crazy. Mark Cap in Behemoth Netflix became and they realize. Now it's like I said there's there's always emerging technology that's coming forward and you don't adopt it you're GONNA get left behind or else you're scrambling to catch up like these other companies Yup Yup and to me at this point Adam and you know again this kind of world going earlier when right when I brought the fact that you're founder you've been in tech for the whole time you know for your whole life essentially as as an adult in this space and house evolved you know the blockchain offers the little man the average man the average woman. Obviously I mean that generically The opportunity to get involved at a smaller level you know never been able to be done before because being credited investor to do all this beforehand not to mention that you just they just I guess they just amended. I haven't read through the I think it was last week that came out and they amended what being accredited. I did hear something about that So That's interesting and you know going back to what you're saying about You know like the Internet. You know the these these these revolutions that occur so I I was a little bit younger during the during that whole dot com. Boom I feel like if I was like five years older I probably could have you know did pretty well in stocks or something like high school and all that was going on and you know but I lived through it I remember seeing how like this. Huge revolutionary change from email to the Internet. AOL Chat Room so like like just like the the the gradual progression from you know all that to spotify in facebook and where we are now and it's incredible and then I see watching Bitcoin and it reminds me of like Internet ninety. Four Nineteen Ninety six point where we were accepting my now. It's way bigger because it's global and actually I. I did a little exercise recently. I'M GONNA have to share with you I'm still adding to it. I started creating a spreadsheet of former technological internet pioneers who are now in blockchain and in what what they did previously and now they're doing blockchain like I have like a break up brandon. I believe is his name WHO's You know the CO founder of Mozilla And then any traded and any trade Java script and now he's created the brave browser in the bat token so you have people like that then you have like Marc Andreessen who created and now he has like a an injury watching watching capital fund. And you have all these people that created literally created the Internet and all these technologies that go along with the Internet but like for instance the person who created the H. E. T. The protocol. He's now heavily involved with with some blockchain project. So you know. It's incredible by the way you start to realize that you know all these brilliant Internet pioneers and and compete and technological watchable pioneers from whether it's a semiconductors entertainment how they're transitioning over and how they see their their their visionaries before obviously visionaries. Now they see the vision they see where all this this is going. And they're creating new products based upon it on and to me. That's like that's like true validation that if these guys who are true pioneers it got to be something here. Yup Yup and you know I would almost venture to say that if you're not paying attention to what Adam said you. Oh you don't want you don't WanNa know the truth you know. There's a lot of people who who hop on board they lose now. They're mad at at that crypto at blockchain because they lost ninety percent of their sack act because they got him here and they were told this or you know Adam said that or Joe said this and you know we're wrong and so and obviously these are real responsibilities that someone like myself. I take very seriously I've learned some some difficult and harsh lessons along the way about what influenced mainly about responsibilities. And I'm very careful folks in if you listen closely you know you can hear way to say certain things and you know. That's that's a respect for the audience and that's out of respect for for blockchain. I don't want to be the reason. I don't want to be that person but what I don't want to also miss out on is. This is the belief in the option the belief and it's it's not just coming it's here I mean we're just seeing the beginnings of it but there's no doubt in my mind now Adam how does how. How does this influence of of these minds joining the blockchain? 'cause or being part of this. How does this translate into you? Know not just bitcoin potentially becoming more credible going up. But you know projects that they're involved and tokens and all this other crap that we've kind of had to kind of sift through to get to where we today. The bull run of the coins in two thousand seventeen was incredible for people who are invested in them And then you know it was very not incredible for those invested invested in two thousand eighteen and even to the states continued throughout the year. Twenty nineteen and I I even question myself. You Know Not Nisa are all coins. Dead and net come back. You cannot convince me that that's the case Maybe a little awful time frame as tomorrow. I expect them to continue to their their rise to get back to where they were at least And that's probably not true and I don't expect actually expected to have more. But how can this translate into not just believing relief and blockchain or decentralisation. I think most people can at least find an appreciation for what that means whether you're blushing or not you can at least recognize that this is a thing but what does it mean for people who are invested in all coins. What are your thoughts on what that I mean? Does it have in correlation. I think it does. I mean I'm not a amongst the small group of people that are you know. bitcoin matchless adult can exist nothing else should exist in. If you're going to build a project you can only build it on the bitcoin. Recreate a side chain. You know on the Bitcoin side chain or something like I'm out of that I think there can be. There's definitely other use cases for re blockchain. Bitcoin bitcoin is used as for for currency civilized. Use cases that I'm okay exactly. I mean there's hybrid use cases. There's there's tons of different use cases in Penza. Defendant implementation of the technology acknowledged. They're gone it exists aside from bitcoin. bitcoin just provide the initial groundwork in the framework for how blockchain's had actually function. And then people you know are opposites modified in and change from there but in terms of you know bitcoin's the end all and there's nothing else like I definitely no. I don't think there's utility tokens there's all pointers. There's all projects projects that are that are have extremely good ideas that executed on these ideas and I've actually started to come out with processor platforms. That are utilizing this technology. So I mean those are the types of a a project you need to focus on I mean there's a lot of scams and a lot of shit pointer in aqueous phase that did ICO's and raise all this money and haven't done anything in two years and it's a matter of you know just like when you're investing in stock or you're messing company on you have to do your own research and do your own diligence. You don't just listen on the troll box employment Game and people with Fiat for Ceres for forever since the never exception of mankind is a scam somebody but you know caveman were scanning each other for for pelts and other things so this has been going on for Ya there. If there's a will there's a way and there's there's a big well with this stuff so just like anything you know you're doing research. I in publicly traded company. You should you should be looking in to see if they're legitimate. Looking at their financials what's their roadmap. Same thing with these watching companies. Go check Out There Rome at checkout their white paper do they have any releases bulk at their repository. So they making regular commits telegram facebook group have they been executing and in keeping onto keeping up with the schedule if they said that they're gonNA be on these types of things that we need to look at it from there you can deduce somewhat valid. You know a opinion of what a whether or not you want to invest in that company or not and also not to mention that the expectations of a company now dabbling blockchain especially a new. When are tremendously higher? If you'RE GONNA raise money at this point you know there's so many more things. Even the average investor is preparing for. And if you WANNA go price some money from people people who already lost money you better have been great and I think I think the days I made. Maybe I'll be wrong but I think the days of these. ICO White White papers where they don't have anything in their raising thirty or forty million. I think the days are numbered. And who knows we. Maybe we go another bull run and people are following. It doesn't matter if people are the prize but maybe people actually you know they realizing they're educating out. They got burned that they're not going to do that now. That's why they're here though. A lot of them are here because they want the they want the quick. Buck where you have people who got burned there like I'm not going to get him. You have the new crowd of people who end up doing it so people are always looking for taking the plus token scam. That's going on right now or Plow token on all these clowns have respect for anybody who lost money in that. You know if it's if it sounds too good to be true most likely it is. Let me take that back. There's a lot of people who did not know about crypto in China or somewhere. Maybe that was her first attempt into it I I'm not Nestle adjudging them. But if you were in Crypto and you come to me and you're like man. I got scammed by cloud might well I didn't. I don't know a single. You try to take advantage advantage of ponzi scheme before a collapse. That's nine if you've been in Crypto for more than a year and you and you did that you knew full they they they could have put a disclosure out that you're going to lose your money and you would have still tried you know that that's the type person who I mean I don't I don't want to box everybody and there's exceptions to that. Of course I know and I don't want to talk badly about people who don't deserve that In that's not my intention madam on that comment but I will say the only people that I saw who got into it. Most of them didn't even. I'm not going to give any names and I obviously I would never ever dabble in that. I would never be attached myself to any comment like that But some of the people who have said I tried it. You know if it's been connected you know I can get out. I will classes tomorrow. I'll put a hundred dollars on all right man I. I don't actually worse than the lottery. It's a you know it's GonNa you'RE GONNA lose. Yeah Yeah it's just a matter it's a it's a ticking time bomb. It's not if you can get in an out quick enough and so you know and obviously in folks Ataman founder of a coin per se. But he's really not found overall coyne. He's a founder to a block chain project that has a token. And it's got a use case folks in and out of the way that you went about your your your project on a personal the team and You guys just did everything in my mind. Ethically and morally correct. You built something. You showed what it's going to do and then and you've allowed the community and it's every day I'm hearing more and more you know randomly from people you know Ryan Berg who I met in Vegas and I think too. I mean the students become one of your and you know. He's a a professional baseball player. hard-working news got a family. You know he's he's told US Family About Bravo coin. And you know you asked me about it. You know and and different things and I'm just like I love watching people who are sensible. Who Have you know like you know? They may not be experts blockchain. But you don't have to be to recognize something that works and you know you. You didn't come on here to talk about Your Bravo and I appreciate your commentary today and your and your thoughts and obviously you know it's bickering. Radio I talk a lot. It's my show right but AH It means a lot to me to allow your perspective to be told you do a really good job at that Let's let's let's Kinda head on Bravo coin and all this and you know you're obviously partial and you know full disclosure. Adam is one of the founders and creators of the entire project. So He's obviously going to be very optimistic about the future. Sure but he's not immune to or even you know blinded to that things have to work this way and I have to be better at this. I have to create an APP scale. And you know this is smart a guy who's been here and he's doing he's doing it for the reasons but you know you've got one of the biggest uphill battles as far as you know regardless of people don't like yelp you know just like facebook. It's so big it's so grand it so intrusive that you almost don't have a choice but to us at times especially the business owner. How do you change changed like I? Surely you know the community and just organic excitement you know is a is a central part in any crypto project. It's this Marketing Marketing Ltd marketing opportunities limited amounts of money these days in the space. And you know you probably most founders. Who did it the way you did? It probably spent most of my and I personally. Don't I know your financial situation. Never even asked you know and I don't want to say that you're broke. That's obviously not what I'm saying but you know you've you've invested not just time but your own money into this and you built it before or you brought it to the community This is a this is not an easy thing to overcome like. How how does someone in your position in? You don't necessarily speak for all coins is here but I think your your sentiment for someone. Who's doing it right? We'll probably at least embody the overall principle generically speaking. Like what do you do. How do you combat the the negativity? How do you build a project trying to fix something so I mean I guess? The first thing was identifying a potential issue that exists and you know I actually had a specific issue or where I encounter some of the negative behavior from yelp when I had my own software as a service business and you know I did a little more research into it and I realized that it's really not that uncommon with a problem and everyone uses reviews today. I mean whether you're buying a blender on Amazon whether you know even looking up podcast caster like Oh is this one ranking. How many views getting I mean youtube videos? Everything our lives since we since they added of the Internet and since like Ebay and Yahoo Auctions. Our lives revolve around reviews for everything. If I'm buying the same product and one of the shippers has a five star and one has anything less than that. I'm taking the five sore exactly and here. We don't realize though that that data is easily manipulable just like all data and and people willing to date especially when there's some sort of monetary ah incentive involved in obviously they want to sell as many products as possible so they're gonNa you know whether what they're going to manipulate they're using their favor or they're gonNA manipulate them against competitor or or or something you know you start to realize that this data that we provide Is extremely extremely valuable Harvard business will be decided at eighty seven number. Say if you recommend a product or service to someone that you know there any seven percent more likely to try to try it out just based on your recommendation that I someone I want. You came to me and said Joe. This is what you need to try this restaurant or you know you. Don't try this product. I brought on Amazon Amazon. I trust his decision. You Know Eh. You'd at least research and be like let me check out this thing that you know he was talking about and it's crazy. The the impact that reviews have and that we don't really think about the legitimacy legitimacy of these reviews and whether or not they're being manipulated and whether or not you know and what goes on behind the scenes and you know I go back to that documentary that I was talking about a a billion dollar bully where there's been all these cases of a of yelp pretty much extorting these small businesses because of the business model that they have and the business all they have is that they have these sales agents that are paid commission and its sales based position. And they know that you're more likely to buy an ad on their network if you have negative reviews go negative ratings so they have they have an incentive almost to sabotage your earrings or someone else has an incentive to sabotage your ratings because they know how effective it is. You know I- against your on your profile so so as a result of this you know there has to be wrestling different ways to secure data to make sure that it's not manipulated. So so so one of the issues that that for instance that billion dollar bully tops out is that there's all these business owners Have had all these issues and they brought to all the website to the State Supreme Court in California Eh report instances and because this data is centralized. Because we're dealing with decentralized entities in this this all goes back to the whole decentralisation proposition that we're talking about previously obviously these these companies. They own they own the data they they own everything that that exists with your profiles and everything rain your pictures and your videos and since they on it they can control and they can display it manipulated modified however they want so walls replace book. It's the faithful to its youtube student right. Now they're censoring upto channels so well You know the State Supreme Court in California said All these visits were very upset. Basically what happens. yelp was either removing reviews that were positive filtering negative reviews that some of them said that never even occurred to their top their profile they were very upset about this they say that everyone's star ranking that you lose yell profile results in a fourteen percent reduction the overall business review so it's crazy powerful these reviews are everyone knows So you know these businesses complain it went all the way up to the Supreme Court and yell admitted they said Yeah we change is that we don't we don't tell you what her album. This will change data around will manipulate the results. But it's our data and you guys signed off on that when you sign up for an account and the states report literally said Tatum what Yelp is doing may not be ethical or moral. But it's not illegal. Yup that's just a way to do business in my in my opinion and just you know when when when you manipulative in his own sense you know they can trust not portraying the honest intent and it's widely known at at this point right i. It's not like people are confused at this is or is not happening They just they just use. It still now discuss the popularity and the amount of weight I use it and I know you. I know that you are project that is a competitor to yell and I mean are you probably still look at Yelp. Probably there's a plethora Of Information Information is all on their exactly so until we can get to the point where you know we start on boarding and people start migrating to these other types of platforms You know we're we're so that had had that issue with all these other uses round these other platforms so we need to think of different ways to incentivize them to to come over to these other platforms and that was one of the main value propositions that we have with problem pointless. You know yelp makes money obviously from this. We all know that data's valuable that's like a that's that's a proven proven fact Goldman Sachs says. Data's more valuable than oil. I'm you know you you see of these multibillion dollar literally they just rely on data and marketing of that data and analytics of data. So there's obviously money in the data you're providing and you have these these huge companies just abusing it and extorting it and just capitalizing it as much as possible and just just you know just str- premise creedless. Just you have a stranglehold on it and wringing out every single less sent they can get out of it regardless of whether it's moral or not you know what I mean at some point. Some data mining company's. He's GonNa come along and be like look. I'm going to use your information and I'm GONNA make a ton of money off of it. Do you want a piece of the Pie. Put your information here and everything we do. If there you know what there's a lot of people that would be giving up their information pray quickly at their own. What three percent Alpha off view or it's it's not a zero capitalistic nature in when that actually happens it's going to open up the floodgate? Yeah Yeah Yeah anyway so not to change subjects. But so you're saying you're going to see you know the centralized services and providers and and you know there's going to be centralized alternative. I'm not going to say. I'm not saying the centralize providers are we're going to go away. You're always GonNa have people that are going to WANNA deal the centralized providers even from a bitcoin aircraft. You'RE GONNA have people that. Don't WANNA hold private keyser nervous about that They're going to want to have appoint base or bit go or whatever whatever the total services to handle all that for them and they're willing to pay a fee for that or or not have controller pointer these susceptible to a potential L. Hack as a result But that's just the way you know and and that's going to be an educational type of journey as well where I think as you start you know. Explain to people how all the stuff works. You know how it all operation. You may start. Have people starting to move over to that other signs saying you know I'm going to you know control just like I have a faithful goal bars in my basement. I'm going to have a ledger after nine. Eleven that safe to and you know this this is where the blockchain get so scalable is that you know putting I mean just even like hearing. Can you talk. I mean the the ideas that brilliant people way smarter than me. But I've heard people talk about this future holds and I've thought for a long time time. You know an actual digital driver's license is well On. Its way at some point where you know you can pull it up on your phone. I remember having to keep my insurance in my car a long time. Now it's literally accepted by the police officer. If you get pulled over you know. Hey I gotta I gotTa pull my insurance about my phone. And they're like no problem. I texted it to cops cops before email and send it to my email and I've emailed the ID card exactly right you know. And so this this concept of digitally keeping whether it be you. So as Crypto user. My my my my money my funds and a wall at where I have control over it to you. Know emailing your you no insurance over to a police officer these. These are things that we're not just accustomed to as individuals. The world is becoming more accustomed to it. So you know as you have you you know obviously Bravo where Bravo is allowing a decentralize. Look into you know honest reviews of companies and projects in a folks who. You're listening to this. Do me a favor going to bravo and give me some good reviews on bitcoin radios. You know the podcast section podcast action would be to me and obviously you know. Put some interaction and I think probably coin is well on its way Bravo coin when I say that actually talking about token I'm talking about the project. General Bravo is doing some really incredible. Oh things if you're not part of that that community you're missing out but you know I I look and say you're going to have a digital driver's license you're GonNa have you know you already have your banks and you have your your money whether it being crypto or Fiat. You're checking your bank out throwing everything. There's all digitally to begin with digital credit cards. Now you have apple pay you have. Aw You have all this stuff that's going on. That's just normal. It's just it's just involved to this point and at some point you're going to need to keep this very safe. Computers are getting stronger. Hackers are getting better. Things are happening where you know if you're if you're whether it's your actual data that that facebook or that somebody's met monetize or whether it's your actual information nation and your livelihood whether it be a bank count driver's license insurance whatever might be. There's a lot of information on these things and somebody's going to do it and someone's going to do it right and pick up. The you know the the pieces of this digital puzzle. Put them together. And there's GonNa be a place where you can have some ideas and I actually don't want to get into this. I'll kind of digress. A little bit back. But you know incorporating your social media accounts that get into your bloodstream. Become part of you. That's going to happen. There's going to be this entity that steps in the opens up the floodgates of information for your purposes which you need and allows you to not distort use it in the blockchain literally is that that's what the blockchain's GonNa do. It's huge focus. A big deal now Adam back to Bravo and specifically in this instance you know getting the credibility credibility. This is obviously something that you don't want to happen overnight. You like that's the case then you obviously have E- maybe got some success early or that you've had had some bunch of influence and people joining but that's not what builds the long-term credibility in those two different things. I'm talking about in this circus. You understand that same to the public. You Know Your Business Model. You're ethical sense your your moral obligation. You have to not just this project but the people using it is. I'm speaking for him. Folks there are few is good as happened. This is the type of person you want to build something like this now. That's all great. You can be the best thing in the world. No one's using your Shit Adam. It doesn't matter right. I mean in your good guy. You know you you build something cool. Nobody used it. That's not what you want and I don't anticipate that's what's going to be but you never know anything can happen but I see featuring in this success in your future in this project. What are your hopes? What are your goals over the next five years as a crypto project? I kind of want you to speak to the space as someone who's who's earned that spot but you know be individual in this to you know let me what's what's truly what success in five years from now what what's realty. What's possible I think success is is is true adoption you know and mass adoption and not just through the you know the small Defy or stuff like that You know if we WANNA if we want this to grow on a global scale and be distributed like like what we talk about We need to have. We need have applications in use cases that the common person is using like social networking more. Or you know or gaming and stuff like that where the massin coming in droves you know and and really adopt a second technology and not necessarily know that that's technology that's backing all the backing everything that's fine it just needs to be used to be easy to use. It needs to be familiar with them. And maybe he needs to have some sort of incentive that previously didn't have so for instance Now so you know for Bravo point for getting Patriot reviews as opposed to giving away your abuse for free on you also so there needs to be added incentive involved and it needs to be simple enough that it needs to. Yeah no brainer. For one person. Move over from one plan to another can't be conflicts. That can't be you know. A lot of years of hearts Imbaba can't be a steep learning curve it needs to be just you know easy. Segue transition addition that you know just like just like when my staff face-down facebook came in You know it wasn't immediate but it was a pretty onramp. Then all of a sudden you know people started adopting it because they realized that it was superior technology was superior platform. I feel that's going to happen. Once user start to realize that blockchain in the decentralized services that there are advantages them such as compensation and data privacy and decentralisation and stuff like that the compensation in the future is going to be so crucial as a not a political statement here. I'm not a huge fan of like Andrew gangs proposing immediately but I definitely see in the future. There's GonNa be something that has to come about unless something changes where you know. There is a protective layer of financial security for somebody. You know we already do it with with social security to an extent It wouldn't surprise me if that was drastically implemented at some point out of necessity like as literally like you know the way that economy's going now again that's not to make a political statement. I have tremendous respect for Andrew Yang Ah that has nothing to do with Republican or Democrat. I tend to lean conservative and a lot of ways. I appreciate what Andrew Gangs brought to table but you know to to kind of piggyback. You back onto what Bravo in what you said about Bravo. Compensating yourself. Digitally for your time for your efforts. I mean it's already taking a lot lot of your time folks you know. You're already obsessed with the Internet. You're already obsessed with your phone. If you're like me you know there's got to be away at some point where you can sit there and say there's a there is a company that's going to allow me to to monetize my own efforts here. I'm doing something out of the goodness of my heart. You like when you go leave out a yelp review. If you're trying to help somebody you know. It's kind of your accountability to the store owner as well but at the same time you know when you get somebody who writes you a good view you really made an impression on them and when you say ah sometimes some of these reviews adamant are written and you already kind of touched on this a written away. We're almost sounds like they were. They were paid to do it. Now if you're up front with that that if you did get compensation not because the companies giving it to you because now there's a literal way of being compensated. Decentralized a of no benefit to the owner or or or no success to the owner in any way or negative successor benefit i. There's there's no there's nothing thing to do with that owner it's I mean. Of course you can still have some manipulative. You know The story was going to see you. Hey Look you're twenty bucks we tip our. Here's your but that's that's on them. That's Never GonNa stop under any circumstance you cannot wipe that aspect of exactly you. You can only try to mitigate so much and putting signing efforts to to try to eliminate the as much manipulation and as much of the fake data as possible. And you know that's actually one of the things that we we've started to implement is that we have a location hardware device that interfaces with the blockchain and with our application actually proves that you're within a three hundred thirty foot radius of these action holiday restaurants that you visit so you know no longer going to have issues where you know You you know Johnny from across the town across the state doesn't like your coffee shop or something like that or just on young data against you and they never been the arrest on your or your business. They're not gonna able to leave you a review anymore. The they're not going to be verified on the blockchain. That's amazing and that's I think that's such an integral aspect to an honest conversation. So so Adam and of course. We're hour and a half to blow officially in one minute officially the longest podcast. I've been on and I appreciate that it was you with you and so we'll wind this down. Maybe pick up a part of this conversation. It's really intriguing to have long conversation and talking at a rapid rate so. I hope you guys aren't listening to this on fast forward because nowhere. Fortunately I think most people who you know. They won't have to press password at all they might actually have down normal but but Last question I have for you Adam in this kind of encompasses you know a lot more about you than than the average listener is is going to know just because I have a personal friendship with you But clearly this model and I've alluded to this kind of the way things up. There's no there's no oh I I've heard this for the first time with Adam today all that we've already had these conversations several times and so And in a way this is unscripted. Obviously but there was there was identity to this this conversation. And it's important to me because it's kind of leading to other things as far as the conversation. You've got to have this conversation for you can have the next one and some in this circumstance but but Adam for you look at this model and I say this model can work for more than just reviews and Shirley you've been told that before it's not the first time that you've been hearing that it's not the first time you've thought that I I can although we actually probably haven't had that direct conversation I've heard you talk talk about other things in a sense where without the model Bravo. Maybe you wouldn't be talking about it. At what. At what point do you start recognizing recognizing you know. Obviously you know that this model can work at what point you start taking that more seriously and take on that responsibility of maybe implementing are advising other companies who have similar things or companies. Even come into you right now already asking about this business model in general just the model in which she had we had. We've actually we had a A couple of other industries approach us on because they and actually if there's a possible to have like a white label solution for them So it's interesting so so we're not the only want substantial you know in this type of architecture type setup it applies for a lot more than just you know the review Industry so And I believe that's the case with And with with most industries and a lot of projects like I said ninety five percent of industries in my opinion of the effects of one way or another with blockchain. It's just a matter of when that's going to happen. Yeah and you know a person who I have a lot of respect for similar to how I talk to you and I've had it on the strategic. Fred Krueger familiar with them at all atom. But you know that guys you are very similar you guys. If you don't you need to You both are doing great things For Fred comes from a really successful background of business as well in tech business But I just love when I'm talking to in hearing the way that you you shape your blockchain specifically but how it's going to influence the others is going down It's it's just really impressive to see the quality and the honesty of these projects. Pick up because people you know. And I I want to congratulate you but also I wanna Oh thank you man. I mean it's important that people see and hear and are aware of real projects. You know. It's just it's got to happen people. You've got to help help that happen. Thank thank you so much for for saying that and I just WanNa close out on You know I truly you know we truly want to be as essential as possible. Recently we actually create create an automated setup. So that if you WANNA run a witness note and be a block producer on our actual network. You can earn Bravo passively now by just running quick little manuscripts and then enabling function actioning your your application and boom all of a sudden you can actually be produced you can be a block producer a witnessed out on the chain and earning rewards as a result and the other way in. I and I have been lazy. duper easy Ryan burks that went up. It literally takes like three two or three minutes and previously. This was like a complicated scenario for a before steaming and Running steam it witness know previously. You were a little technologically advanced. You knew how to set everything up there. You know. There wasn't very well documented. And you know it was kind of like almost reserved surfer that technological leak cap class. And that's not what we want. I want this to be at the more people who are running the more centralized that we can be that. That's better for everyone. Involved Sumitra pitcher so trump no well-studied and enjoy thoroughly this conversation. I appreciate your time. BITCOIN radio. If you need Adam Adam Arkin they find you PROB Aucoin Dot Com Bravo coin dot com or joyner telegram. Absolutely I would personally encourage you to at least get another project and look into it and see what they're doing you know. Write a review. You place the right one and it's not just restaurants and hotels the Agreement Bravo coin. You know if you're into Crypto we have exchanges on there you can review by answer coin base or coup coin. We have projects projects on there. You Can Review Bitcoin view theory all these other points around there so I mean you know we had a lot of users who could get out of hand quick. You know it's funny. We had used that you know. I didn't know that you had these other categories. I thought it was Kinda just like restaurants and not really reviewed restaurants. But you'll people that are so into crypto and so it's like specific projects that spaces that they just go at it with each other there about different projects that I like this project. I like this point. This is why this one's not as good and someone else will come in with a rebuttal. So I mean that's a that's a pretty popular section actually on our apps so if you think we're just restaurants that's were just you know. Hotels is not we have movies and music and other countries as well so just just check it out. It's free. Let me ask you a question last question but this can be quick have have you had some success with people finding you are. There are people that are not not in crypto that stumbled. Actually actually I would say we're probably about forty percent of our user. Base has never used before in their life We have I have a lot of Friends of mine or or when I first started out that I introduced this do that. That would never involvement crypto Parents you know family and friends that are involved. And they've invite their friends and I actually questions quite a bit coming into our supporting telegram mm-hmm of users who have literally they've never been exposed to before in their life but now they're starting to ask the types of of relevant questions that we want these users to ask like you know I have Brahma okay now but I hear you know I know. There's bitcoin exists. But how do I trade my bravo point for bitcoin. You know or how you know. What other products exist like this? Are there other cryptos that I can earn as well instead instead putting up my own capital. And and that's a big thing you know withdrawing in but we went back to the drawing in new users of people in the space is that bitcoin and the volatility scares a lot of people don't know the spectacle the nature of it so when they see bitcoin going from twenty thousand dollars to three thousand dollars if they put it in one hundred doxa goes down to fifteen or twenty scary for the average person of course especially if they don't know the the history of it so you start to you know if you offer these types of platforms where you can get paid for your time. And you don't have put up your own capital your Euromoney. People are much more willing to adopt it especially especially new users. So I've never been close to this type of industry no question and also by the way all right so we'll tight off there folks. We'll see you guys next week. This will be the second and final episode of this week. will run into the new year. I've got some cool things that I can't wait to talk a little bit about Obviously bitcoin Miami North American bitcoin conference coming coming up in the middle of January. I'm hoping I'm still trying to make sure I got all the the the details worked out. But I'm planning on being there if you're not coming if you WANNA come. If you're trying to get an opinion on it should come. You can always review it or check reviews out on over on Bravo but they get out for joining us. Man means a lot bitcoin radio till next time. Everybody you know what I'm about say. A what are you doing for the crypto verse. I know what I'm doing. I know what Adams doing. But the crypto verse does belong to all of us. If you're not taking care of it somebody else will and that somebody else may not be the best best person to do. It could be some senator owner whatever that thinks that you know. It's all bad and the next notes in their hands. But you know we've got to maintain our efforts folks. It means a lot to me. I know I know the space means a lot to if you're listening so Good luck everybody. Happy New Year. Please stay safe please judgment. We'll see it when it gets there. I guess may have warmer show but until next time everybody does.

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Show 54: Nic Carter - Bitcoin Macro Discussion

Crypto Voices

1:07:19 hr | 2 years ago

Show 54: Nic Carter - Bitcoin Macro Discussion

"They everybody. Welcome to show fifty four on crypto voices nephew gets your house here from Latvia. Joined with my coast for nine to Rick from Brazil. Hello, matthew. And today, we are going to introduce our special guest Nick Carter, Nick is co-founder of castle island ventures and founder of the popular charting sites coin metrics dot IO. He is a thoughtful blogger his articles on medium, sometimes with blogger hosue are just a must read for anyone in the space as well. He's a solid bitcoin with nothing. But very interesting tweets definitely found there on Twitter, some of which I think we're gonna talk about today. Nick. Thanks to join us. Welcome to the show. Live pleasure. Thank you mad and Fernando fans of you guys and your work. I think were you know, like minded in terms of our prochaine so really happy to to finally get on. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, buddy. We've been talking about it for a while met you in person in Riga at the Honey badger conference. That was great. Why don't we just get right into it? When are you going under the knife? And please give us the full breakdown of this story going back to March believe it is. Well, yeah, that's quite the drama, and, you know, having some regrets about posting that the backstory here is that I said on Twitter, I think in March of this year that it was part of a bearish call generally about the markets. And then I said, however, if we get down to four thousand per bitcoin, I would cellmate kidney for cache with the implication that I'd be loading up on bitcoin at those levels. So it seems like I've been spared that ordeal for now with the recent bounce back up, but remains to be seen whether I'll have all my kidneys intact in a month. Or so do you find that people are taking that prediction the wrong way? Yes. What is it? Pose law known can tell you know, what is satire on the internet. So most of my tweets are made in just but people take them very seriously. And then they take screen shots, and they make fun of me. So that's yeah. It it. It could be better. And also bitcoin could be doing better. But I think the overarching point is that pretty happy buyer of bitcoin down in the four thousand syringe completely grew with you there. I think one more point on that story. We were talking about this. Appreciate it is interesting the way that some people react all the time constantly to the price movements. We don't talk about price too much on this show. But I think it was even with this relatively good prediction that you made back in March or so that you know, is sort of a bearish look toward bitcoin transaction volume zone, and so forth from coin metrics that was the first time that no corner. Hurrell Rabin as well as that. Right. That's right. Oriel didn't like the kidney comment at all. He took a screen shot and had this hold diatribe about how big corners cultists. And so on that they'd sell their organs for the coin. But now Norio follows me. So it's, you know, the had a really great resolution and me and him are basically a buddies of this. Fantastic fantastic. Look forward to seeing how that relationship blossoms. One more prices you here about this time last year. So November twenty seventeen everybody knows the price was starting its parabolic move to twenty thousand we had CNBC's Brian Kelly on just about this time last year for a little context for our listeners in case anyone somehow forgot markets were around six and a half. K? I was looking at this today round number thirteenth and then by December sixteenth or twenty K. So I'm thirty four days. Two hundred percent right now. It's November twentieth. As we record it markets have gone from about six and a half, although we know much higher in the month before but they've gone from six and a half can of eighth to about a little bit of a bump. They were much even lower today. But let's four point six k right now as we record which was only twelve days almost third of value. You lost? So I asked him last year that was my first sort of question to him. You know, was it a boring year for you twenty seventeen. I'm curious. What's your perspective and feel free? You don't have to just talk about price. But where would you go? If I ask you a question has twenty eight teen been a boring year for you in bitcoin and bitcoin. No, it's been a tremendously exciting year every year and bitcoin is exciting. But I think twenty teen in particular, you know, segue adoption finally kicked off the lightning network became, you know, less of a Mirage and more of something meaningful. You know, I got my my CASA node last night. And you know, it's opening channels for me on the lightning. Now are right now. So this dream of bitcoin becoming a settlement layer for a multi tiered system finally became a reality in two thousand eighteen so the you know, that's pretty astounding re bitcoin had its ten of. Versity? There's plenty of those retrospect is about how it's failed. But from my view chugs along every day and settles roughly two billion dollars worth of value every day. So from that perspective, I think it's still doing really, well, I guess twenty seventeen was really the most exciting near in bitcoins history and say because it held off the hostile fork, and then kind of the hostel corporate co-option attempt with the two x so those are absolutely seminal vents twenty teens much call me for bitcoin. I'd say, and I'm just a year of development and growth. So, you know, there's so many new initiatives that also I really impressed by stuff like bitcoin up tech, you know, that's not necessarily that visible. But just the kind of growing sophistication with how to engage with bitcoin. How to be good stewards of the chain. You know, if we looked at it today bitcoin could probably support. Maybe a million and a half two million payments on chain without expanding the same, you know, before it reaches capacity as opposed to about, you know, six hundred thousand or so back during the crisis into summer. So I would say the the kind of industrial use of bitcoin is really matured and improved this year. And and its capacity has been boosted by considerable amount by segue. You know, the the better compression methods. We have now the the slightly increase blocks base. And exchanges. That are the heavy users. Bitcoin have become more careful about their interaction with the chain. So overall, I'd say really successful year. There's some interesting stuff ahead of us. Short signatures will see you know, where they go. A lot of lightning development, you know, still in-vitro. And I think it's only a matter of time before the the kind of merchant corporate side of bitcoin development catches up, and you know, end user tools for lightning become a sophisticated and simple. So as far as bitcoin is concerned, you know, it's another year closer to the the issuance reduction which concerns me a little bit because we do need to find a way to mediate away into the higher fear. But generally speaking, you know, very satisfied, and you know, there's always positive delights out there for the keen bitcoin watcher. And you know, it might not. Be the most visible or flashy stuff. But it just continues to be improved on an incremental basis. Now, you mention the segments wax and the corporate co-option attempt, and how lightning has evolved as well. Do you feel the ho- skill ability debate will head last year up to up to segue to X was finally called off? I think was November seventh. Do you feel this debates kind of settled with regards to how have how we should scale in terms of a layered in protocols and layers and just on chain as bitcoin cash and bitcoin cash ABC and such vision? And so on this issue with bitcoin now, it's finally settled the hell I would say so yes. And you know, the really abiding thing for me is that in in August actually from twenty fifteen when I. It became an issue with XT bitcoin is are making arguments, which I think we're well-reasoned, but mostly theoretical so stuff like, you know, large blocks peanut vantage, big pools, large blocks might be a DOS evacuate attack factor on the network and basically talking about the negative xr analogies of big blocks. And we didn't see those imperatively until the bigger bloc faction forked off and pressed ahead with their kind of technical Jek gives. And now if you look at the performance of v looks like they deal west themselves with some mega big blocks that you know, the the participants in the network were basically unable to to grapple with. And so we're seeing kind of empirical legitimation of what I'd say we're mostly theoretical arguments between two thousand fifteen in two thousand fifteen seventeen they were made by the small blockers and not only that but. Beyond bitcoin. I would say the dominant designed Lhasa fee for major other major Blockchain's has also been a move away from this large block at the base layer approach towards the the layered approach. I think that has become really the dominant. Consensus cerium is definitely moving that direction. So I would say the the, you know, just the dominant bitcoin faction there probably deserves plaudits for being prescient. It was definitely very attempting to release the pressure open the valve back when we had a fee crisis. But it took a lot of restraint, and and kind of foresightedness to stay. The course they're not given to the the the larger block desire and and build a layered system, even despite the pressures to do otherwise. So, you know, it's a really interesting case where you do rely on on kind of theoretical arguments. And then only much later does the data come in and kind of prove you, right? And I think that's what we've seen recently you you've just mentioned that bitcoins blockchain coulds bitcoin Hoke with handle round three Behmen. It's payments transactions are in the same thing. Just to clarify. That's me being loose with the nomenclature, I meant outputs, you know, like you can have many outputs in a single transaction. I think bitcoin could probably easily handle one or two million outputs per day on the base layer today without too, much difficulty. You wrote a great art global bitcoin transaction volume was about ten days ago. So one we're just as the relevance of transactions in bitcoin right now. And when should we start to think that transaction called is a meaningful meaningful figure of comparison with something like perhaps visa MasterCard PayPal, or this this network shouldn't even be? Compared with call this a few angels. There. I think the first is that comparing transaction count on the like to like basis between something the relies on Komodo consensus, and then between something relies on a just a more centralized mechanism doesn't necessarily make that much sense to me, you know, ES and visa probably in the roughly in the same category where they can kind of buy almost unlimited skill ability by recentralize ING, but the systems that really make those trade offs of the rely on a per four consensus, you know, they they have a hard time. And so the like comparison is tricky there. It says the other thing is that bitcoin is kind of a full stack system like it. Handles the issuance, the kind of auditing reconciliation settlement. The actual transacting. It is like a full stack monetary system. Self contained. You can you know? Now, there's the deferred settlement built into it for the kind of the smaller payments, maybe whereas visas like one tiny part of the the kind of, you know, I don't know. What would call it legacy financial system, which encompasses? A whole host of other features which which must exist in order for it to work. So it's kind of a weird case to make a comparison with with something which really is a full self contained monetary system like bitcoin and then with one tiny portion of of the yacht system. It's they're almost not comparable at all. But you know, that said I did make an attempt to compare them in the article and compared them along the axis that I thought made the most sense, which was the actual devaluing coated in those transactions and on that basis, you know, bitcoin deftly looks more like a a settlement system as opposed to an end user payments system. And I think that's fine. I think we've kind of understood now that they wanted to base layer won't be a good or useful payment system. And that's okay. Because you know, pursuing this layer to protest, and it's optimistically seems like it might be working so far. So, yeah, I, you know, your average bitcoin transaction maybe not the best approach because the distributions pretty skewed, but your average transaction would be in the in the multiple thousands. And I think that's only going to get bigger. Yeah. We'll definitely link to this article. I think it was very well done. You know, obviously listeners know we try to try to go to the hard data. If we can we talk with guests, and obviously you do that very very well in your work, but just to follow up, and maybe on this sort of settlements idea, which everybody knows that sort of the way the bitcoin has moved. It's definitely the way bitcoin has moved. Although it's going interesting sort of fits and starts and people people have different views, even on how the second layers might come on. It seems like lightning type of payments will will at least be the first big breakthrough. Whether or not the protocol would accept something maybe riskier like a drive chain or side chain model is still out there. But regardless of of those points, I think that you made a lot of great comparisons just on a very simple transaction per second. Number metric going to lot of different sources, not just in crypto looking ripple. Therion bitcoin bitcoin cash, but also looking at legacy systems, you know, the fed wire visa MasterCard's on and so forth. So my question is Nick, obviously futures very hard to predict, but you know, you're plotting things like ios things like ripple and ethereal on these scales. And yes, they are clearly more centralized that clearly can pay for that increase. Throughput? Do you see a future for those for those protocols? It's good question. And it's probably some of my thoughts evolved on a lot over the years. I've been pretty surprised by the the persistence of ripple in particular because to me, you know, the investment kiss ripple seems to be let's front run the banks. You know, we believe that the banks are going to buy our p. And so why don't we, you know, they'll be compelled even to buy our p by economic necessity. So let's we the the retail investors by first, and then the banks will pump our bags. You know, I I don't necessarily see that as the most lasting narrative. But that said, you know, ripple seems to be working in one way. I don't really believe it gives you the same assurances at all as bitcoin. You know, one wonders what would happen if it was revealed that there was a bristles being used for Silkroad style transactions. I think the the kind of claims to decentralisation would be put to the test there or even just any any activity that ripple labs, you know, doesn't necessarily agree with there's nothing you can really do about the existence of competing systems that said, I think proof will work itself is kind of inherently concentrated and and. My guess would be that. There wouldn't be too many kind of competing before chains. The last, you know indefinitely. They kind of like if you look at what happened with does coin, for instance, in enough being merged mind with light coin if I'm not mistaken, I think that's probably the same thing that'll happen with bitcoin cash, for instance, already ABC's implementing checkpoints from bitcoin itself. I believe so I I feel that as far as four consensus goes, it's likely to concentrate a system like a theory of mind, I don't think directly competes with bitcoin a- has very different objectives. I don't think it's trying to be this global sediment system. I think it's trying to be a bit more experimental and and varies from bitcoin on quite a number of axes. So I think they can kinda coexist. But of course, there will be lots of kind of just bitcoin clone style projects which won't last. But in general, I'd say, you know, it's permission list system. So you can't deny the right of any of these competitors to exist. It's just that as the market kind of finds feet and begins to take a sober look at the valuations these these systems with very little usage, the kind of less used ones should would most likely fade away in my view since you've mentioned funeral. So what would you say is it your arms value proposition? Or would you say they are stealing search of its proposition, as I sense, it has kind of evolved over the years, and perhaps they there might be kind of lost in this way right now he had to it's a really interesting question. I think there definitely has been undergoing a few pivots clearly. The base layer kind of Dopp narrative or like world computer narrative that fell apart some degree, you know, when it became clear that theorem couldn't really support Dobbs on the base layer. And perhaps there wasn't actually sufficient demand for Dobbs. But you know, that's really between. I think cerium investors ICO investors and foundation. The foundation to some degree is beholden to the claims that they made during the crowd. So I'd say that's the difference between bitcoin, and therapists that bitcoin wasn't really offered with that many promises. And you know, anyone that wanted it? They didn't buy from Saito. She himself they just kind of acquired it on the open market through the the mining issuance Beckenham, whereas with area most theorem that circulate today where -quired from the presale. So I think there's probably there should be a little bit more accountability to the promoters who made very definite claims about what they thought there before. So the soul searching be troublesome from the perspective. But that said, I still, you know, being kind of venture guy recognized the ability of projects to pivot until they find like product market fit. I think that's what they're doing right now. And my guess would be that it actually does find it. So maybe that's centralized finance open finance. Maybe it's more of the kind of radical markets approach, which is algorithm schemes around property rights allowing experimentation there or maybe it's the, you know, the NF t use case. I do think that, you know, Saruman its current form is isn't exactly what investors are after you know, they're they're looking towards the serenity alteration to the protocol. So that's still, you know, looks like it might be a year off or so so it's a really interesting case where it's still not finally formed. I think and you know, if I were theorem investor I might be a little troubled by the the search for an denting. I mean, you know, that's that's bitcoin has had this density crisis to and I've read about that undeniably. A lot of early bitcoin promoters thought bitcoin was for cheap internet payments, or for cheap internet merchants and a lot of those promoters, or you know, pundits were really disappointed when that didn't end up being the case. So they were also accountable to that. But again, I'd say they're probably as a kind of conceptual difference there because Saotome she just kind of create a big when as as and release it into the world instead of, you know, soliciting investment for his his his project, my my own views, and I live Mets also have evolved over the years and even with regards so bit, I tend I always try to compare with existing technologies are anything that can be analogous to bitcoin. And I tend to bitcoin as a protocol as a standard comparable to. CPAP animal. Many people do this compared bitcoin based protocol to the the internet based protocol tippy. But if we think this this stance do think that we're in the middle of a protocol are or standard were stealing search of the winning protocol or winning standard, or as you've said before perhaps in the few years. Most protocols won't be there or perhaps even stay with one or two. What's your view on this? Yeah. I mean, I definitely see the parallels there to me I think because a little bit more kind of expansive in its goals than simply to be money transmission protocol or or a me of protocol for sending financial data, you know, over the internet. Because that could also, you know, we kind of already have those to some degree with like PayPal has an PI. And so on. Well, it's it's interesting case because bitcoin also comes with us monetary system, which is a requirement for it to work. Right. It needs those like native currency units. It can't pay miners dollars. But. You know, it's a little bit more expensive. I think than just a typical protocol. So and since that requires buying into the system to to participate in the system that is what that's where the tension comes from because outsiders by be interested in a neutral kind of money transmission protocol, but it requires them to actually acquire some bitcoin in the first place, and you know, there's all these there's all these kind of political objections that might be layered in there like, well, the state should be the one that creates money not some algorithm. So that's where it gets kind of touchy. And I think that's where a lot of the pushback and the resistance comes from. So it's both a a standards war. And also a kind of monetary battle. And that's why adoption is so difficult because you know, it's not just a pure kind of competition over some some neutral standard. I think that's that's going to be a very interesting topic to you over the next few next few years for sure you've touched on a few things that I want to follow up on fees and transactions still couple of articles that you wrote, but another one was one that you wrote at the beginning of this month, and you mentioned it as well, but coins existential crisis, I think we've touched on a lot of these points. But what would you say again just just to sort of clarify for the listeners what has been bitcoins existential crisis? And then do you feel free to lupin thoughts about this protocol stack that we've been talking about? But what was your conclusion by your article bitcoins? Existential crisis. Yes. So the way works with medium is that I'll I'll write something. And then they'll send me a message and be like can we like republish this as like a medium article? And then they have some editor come in and like change the photo and like change some of the language and for that one actually change the title. So it was I didn't title bitcoins essential crisis. That was kind of dumbed down title from the the medium editor which I kind of bristle out because I liked my original title better. But it was kind of a really obscure punt. So maybe they wanted to the mainstream appeal was the original title. It was what is it like to be a big Clin, which is a kind of reference to this this famous phenomenology paper, which is called. What is it like to be a bat by Thomas nasal which I won't get into right now. And if you're not like a philosophy undergrad, probably won't be interesting to you. You can give us the cliff notes version. Well, it's it's kind of difficult to summarize. But it's really about. Out, you know, whether we have kind of internal lives is there something by which it can be said is there some sort of notion of of being this of embodied nece in being a bat, which is completely inaccessible to humans. So can we as humans kind of actually deeply understand? What is it like to be about again? It's it's we're getting kinda deep into like phenomenology here, but philosophy on the whole point was is there something which can be said to be bitcoins. Essence. It is bitcoin in unique in this way. Or is it kind of empty, and you know, where to those traits come from or they assigned or are they intrinsic to bitcoin. So that was the really the question I was exploring. And the immediate the reason that I wrote the article was because I felt that many projects in cripple and kind of cheat to some degree. They're not truly decentralized. They rely on some third parties arbiter. Maybe there's trademark corporation a foundation, which which give it the essence. So like Z cash had some really dramatic change and became, you know, very dissimilar to what it looks like today, but the cash company and foundation said, we'd nevertheless dubs Chan the truth Z cash that would probably still remain the canonical Z cash chin, but bitcoin doesn't have that. So it has to have this delicate dance where it is altered. Nothing about bitcoin is permanent nothing at all. So it does get altered. But the question is can retain that community understanding of you know, this one is the bitcoin, and this is the impostor bitcoin. And so can remain true to its essence, you know? Does it even have at us since? And that's a question. I'm still trying to explore. You know, really, what is the sense of bitcoin? And my conclusion was that for projects that don't have that kind of third party giver of density. They have this tough time. Like, it's really biting the bullet. Because you have these really pitched battles between bitcoin cash and bitcoin all struggling to try and be the truest associates vision, and the the closest to the bitcoins essence, but ultimately out in susidy only one can really win there. And I think that is still preferable state of affairs. As opposed to having a third party arbiter. Because I think you're just kind of sacrificing I will make it unique. So I think it's pretty interesting. The bitcoin has this this attornal conflict. And I think it's extra pretty intrinsic to the protocol on. I would say the fact that big actually does have this kind of well, understood essence or set of core values that that's what makes it pretty remarkable. It's a it's a great debate. I mean, I I believe we always I mean, even ourselves are always thinking of this the playoff co questions of William bitcoin and other we've seen the recent split in bitcoin cash is community going to see 'em bitcoin s s via whatever. And so do you think that for bitcoin to retains to retain its essence, whatever it may be instant together in the Senate in sales that doing? Hard forks and fragmenting the community every six months or every year. It's kind of goes against the whole the whole idea of a protocol, and especially money like protocol or software of money. I'm kind of thinking I'll tell the question here ever myself right now. No. It's a good question. I I think these things much like a language, right? And if you have a if you have hard fork diplomacy with the English language, and like my town start speaking dialect, which is unintelligible by the the dominant faction, then we're putting ourselves at a huge disadvantage. So, you know, diplomacy by fork is like the worst kind of diplomacy and people find it very elegant because it's like well the market decides. And it's like a few Tarki, and it's like a prediction market, and it's great. But ultimately, the loser should not. Really? Persist indefinitely. I don't think there's any stable equilibrium between the losing four and winning four all the valley, you know, ends up accruing to the winner. So and, you know, something we have now work affects, you know, whereby each participant in our benefits from the being more and more participants. And I think that really is a thing because that just comes down to the liquidity and the optionality of of your money. Those folks degrade that as well. And they forced businesses and exchanges to make difficult choice. And it's just a ton of overhead for all of those entities. So fork diplomacy in my view, just kinda sucks. Even though it might appear conceptually quite elegant, and I think big Quinn to really work longtime. It can't have that. Because you know. I mean, if you even think about knock amona consensus, it's designed to ensure that there's only one canonical chain. And the problem is that if you don't have convergence you get this tree like structure like this never ending fractional of different forks. And that's kind of what we saw with bitcoin cash is like someone made the point that like they are the schism factor faction like the pro schism factions. So then they were guaranteed to keep using that philosophy when other disputes arose. So it's like no surprise to anyone that they ended up. Splitting again because I was kind of a central to the the bitcoin cash. Vision that the disagreements should be mediated by splits. So that it was inevitable. I think and the Dow comes are very very poor. So yeah, you know, to the to the extent that we kind of want bitcoin work long term. I think we should really try and minimize fork diplomacy. I don't think it works. Very well for me. It was interesting to see this to see. This the fork diplomacy being used in. All this cryptocurrency protocols because after researching awhile around the the idea of open source software, and the even the cost in the industry of open source software forking in open source project has always been frowned upon. And it was it was something to be avoided almost at all costs. And one of the reasons that was also in the end there was avoided was because there was almost no possibility of actually monetize ING. For was difficult to have any more monetary reward of doing a fork in April, but I'll come bitcoin twenty eight twenty eight and now all these other cryptocurrencies, it seems that forking listen on a very short term, it makes sense because you can somehow having monitor reward, although I don't think over a longer time horizon. This can can prevail which I think it's also European. Yeah. I would say we've seen a few examples of forks, which seemed to defy gravity so to speak where the some of the two forks greater than the original, which is kind of seems just inherently wrong twenty one that kind of, you know, understands how stocks work around times of dividends for instance. But so that kind of colored people's understanding, so I think the bitcoin cash fork was a good case that happen during the bull market, and the some of the to greater than the original whole, and that might have led people to believe that there was his value on lock hypothesis that the fork actually, freed up the minority faction to to you know, tend to its own interests and flourish and so on, but I think long term that's not the case good point verges thing. One more question on this topic, the sort of philosophy on on Bitcoin's essence, even beyond you know, forced to external coins or code bases protocols, which is very interesting. And obviously, it's it's been the talk of twenty seventeen and now twenty eighteen as well with bitcoin cash, but what about and this question neck may be above all of our pay grades because we're not coders. But what about implementations on bitcoin itself we've been? Reviewed eric. Von skew from LA bitcoin. There are other implementations which are not viewed as let's say attacks from from bitcoin core perspective, which I think bitcoin x t the Quin unlimited obviously segment to you'd as an attack from bitcoin course, perspective. But you know, you have bid core your BTC d-. There are other implementations that will still follow Komodo consensus. Have you ever given any thought to those about a diversification in that sort of ecosystem if that's even needed because if you read like the benefits of running full node, you get the impression that obviously the person that wrote that or group of people that's contributed their bitcoin core developers contributors promoters validates and I get the impression that running bitcoin running bit core there, lots of places where you can read and bitcoin Wicky other writings where there say, you know, this. This doesn't Gary. Antiga you'll follow Komodo consensus, and it's sort of inherently nudges the user to run a bit coin core node, which I think is fine. I'm not saying that one shouldn't do that. But what do you think about this question of alternative implementations on bitcoin? It's really fascinating question. And I think actually on the bitcoin sh- will and should grapple with over the next couple years as if Saddam because right now it's done is wrapped up, you know, for better for worse in bitcoin core. And that's why you have outsiders a lot of academics to this. They say they coin core developers control coined actually are in charge because they control the dominant implementation and everything follows from the implementation and to some degree there. Right. You know in some crucial sense because the other implementations though, they exist probably to marginal to kind of set the tone. Or to be considered valley or valid competitors. Or could they complement at some point? I hope so I haven't seen any that have. I'm not too smart about this topic. But I haven't seen that many have to much critical mass to you know. You know, even be significant minority share of developer mine share. But you know, I think bitcoin would actually be a little stabler in people's minds. And this this kind of misapprehension about bitcoin core being dictatorial control. If there was a reference. A specification rather for the bitcoin protocol that was that then, you know, various implementations like bitcoin core and others could follow. However, I think the the cases we have right now is a bitcoin core is the defacto reference. Implementation. That's my understanding the situation to some degree. I think that looks to an outsider like it's highly concentrated in terms of power that said, I think there is a real diversity of thought within the set of developers that contribute to bitcoin core and a very kind of rigorous academic process of getting code out. And there's also an openness to outsiders. We see that too. So it's a little bit more nuanced. I think a lot of the critics put it, but it is still a concern. However, the everything I've seen even going back to saying a separate implementation is to be discouraged and everything I've seen from people like Greg Maxwell is that there are significant risks engineering risks to having alternative implementations. And we actually do see that on chains like cerium where you have these maybe less coverage per employment because developers are split between them, and you might have folks that occur because of incompatibilities and kind of consensus critical code. So I think practically especially since bitcoin is still, you know, young at risk system. It's probably better just to go safety first right now and have the one major implementation. But yeah, this is actually the. Subject of forthcoming article because it's something the bitcoin really does have to grapple of there's a significant tension there. That's very interesting. Let's let's switch gears now one of the pieces, I know that you're working on. We talked about it before the show was maybe dissecting bit more about what the true cost of of bitcoin is both from the block reward and both from transaction fees. We've talked about transactions a little bit already on the show. But what is your your overall take give us your overall take on the block reward versus transaction fees? How does it all fit together? Take your time. Fascinating topic, definitely something that I've puzzled over a lot. The the popular thing to do. Among critics of bitcoin is to take the the total minor revenue in a period and add that to revenue from transaction fees and then. Divide that by the total number of transactions. And then say the bitcoin costs, I think right now, it's about forty dollars. If you do it that way per transaction to kind of prove the Bitcoin's, really costly. And. It's it's pretty interesting seems kind of compelling surface view. So there's two things going on. Right. We have the the the issuance which subsidizes ninety nine percent of the minor ward right now and fees which subsidize about one percent. And I think there's a way to understand the system that unbundle those two so first of all I don't think issuance is a on holders. I think that's straightforwardly false because you know, the official market hypothesis is kind of very popular right now. But you know, you could rephrase the the officiant market hypothesis by saying that markets. To the degree that markets. Incorporate information. That that information should be incorporated into the price and something like bitcoin issuance, you know, the twenty one million units that is very well. Understood by the people who set the price in bitcoin. There are very few large vice bitcoin, the don't know that there be twenty one Mellon units. So I've you it is more conceptually similar like if you were to ask me what the the the supply bitcoin is probably wouldn't tell you that seventeen point five million or whatever it is today. I would say, well, you know, fully diluted, it's it's twenty one million. And that's the same way that you look at a stock to if you know that there would be a lot of stock based compensation for employees. You would incorporate that because you fully expect that issuance to occur. So I think everyone that sets the price and bitcoin knows about the twenty one Mellon unit cap. And I don't think anyone is surprised by the marginal new bitcoin. That's minted on a given day known surprise when eighteen hundred units of big winner issued on a given day. I mean, really long winded about this. But the reason is because I just think that the notion that supply increases or that the issuance is tax on holders. I think that's on sense. And I think that. You know, most people intuitively would understand that. When when I present that kind of case, I think issuance attacks on holders issuances unpredictable because then you're tasked with with engaging with new, you know, units of supply didn't necessarily expect to exist. Any, you know, then then the price just has to be in the traditional mechanism. But I don't think any buyers surprised by the fact that new units are minted until we get to twenty one. And so as a result, I don't think the issuance cost to anyone. Now, there is a extra analogy there. And maybe you can call an extra cost the extra knowledge is the the carbon emissions associated with the the, you know, the miners activities to generate those bitcoins. And that externally understood as the the market value of the bitcoins on each day times the number of bitcoins issued on each day. That's about ten billion dollars today. You know? And then you take whatever emissions are resulting from that ten billion dollars of expenditure a cap not backs on the minor side, and some fraction of that will be energy costs probably something like a third would be 'electricity costs. And then, you know, you have to find out what the emissions are based on those those 'electricity cost some of them will be zero mission trinity because a lot of it comes from hydro. So then you get some some extra analogy, which is X many, you know, metric tons of carbon dioxide emitted. So from that perspective, there's a cost there's an extra knowledge cost, and then you would just have to compare that against other monetary systems, which may have less transparent costs. But as far as the cost on holders. I don't think it's a cost. Now, you know, I think the way Satory understood it was that the. Emission served. A couple MRs one it was a bootstrap period to subsidize the network security until the fees could be stable and subsidized security. So I really do think record Solna bootstrap phase. I believe that's how sitution stood at two. And I don't think we've deviated too much from that. So I see no reason to to fully deviate. So I think the purpose of the, you know, emission is to issue coins at an open market rate similar to the way that commodities are shooed, you know, like gold such that no entity could perform senior or have a particular advantage in obtaining, those coins because Saddam had this problem of bootstrapping bitcoin such that there would be a reasonably fair distribution because we're talking about, you know, a new money and the question is how do you issue it? Well, you know in the case of the fed. I would say, you know, like upper class individuals that own a lot of capital assets owned things like equities which benefit from a quantitative easing. They're the ones that have just portion it access to new units of money that are shoot it's very, very obscure. But in bitcoin miners right now minors are not operating with significant margins are operating within margins and typically, I think they do offer within margins. And so what this means is that they're forced to sell the coins that they mind to pay their bills. And that's because it's they're very few barriers to entry in the mining space. And you know, you just have new firms that I don't know the market until the margins fairly thin. We have the delivery of coins to market based on this mechanism whereby, you know, if there's a lot of people mining profitably than people see that opportunity they come in. They them. Selves mine, and everybody's making a narrow narrow profit or non at all. And they they deliver their coins to market. And so then it's just like any other commodity where you know, you're buying them a roughly market price. So nobody has a particular unfair advantage in the system. So to me, that's really the genius of proof work. That's why I think it's not recaptured Easley impervious take which doesn't really have an answer to the Wade issue a nuke commodity money. And in a fair way. That's what I believe the purpose of the assurances. And I think there's a cost to that. You know, the cost dust far too issuing? Eighty five percent of the big one supplies been ten billion dollars, and that cost has been paid for through. Unfortunately through some extra analogies in mentally. But this is an extremely long winded way of of saying what I think the purpose of proof workers for the most part. It's a a security bootstrap for the first few years of bitcoin until we get to the fee market. And it's a way to fairly issue the units. And so I think the kind of confusion of the issuance and the fees is a pretty uncharitable approach. And I think at steady state the cost to to send a bitcoin would just be quite simply the associated with that transaction. But if we're doing the boot strapping phase though, you think that the twenty one million units twenty one one unit limit can be disputed in the future. While the things the likelihood of this rule being changed. Yeah. I think it's would be unacceptable to also the limit. And anyway because that in my. Views one of the very few absolutely unimpeachable core values of the bitcoin system. And you know, the system was designed specifically to have that cap and to move to the fee market approach. And if you look at the numbers like right now, the the annual revenue for minors four and a half billion if you packed. You know, two megabyte blocks full of smallish transactions. And and you paid, you know, roughly ten dollars fifteen dollars transaction, you would be able to subsidize that entirely. So it's not that difficult to do the math and see how fees could actually cover the reward right now. And there's another question, which is maybe we're overpaying for security. You know, if you look at the cost of acquiring a success and so on. It's it might cost you billion and a half dollars to actually get the requisite Essex to tack Quinn. So attacking bitcoin isn't just a function of the, you know, the cost per unit of time allocated bay Quin security. It's also function of the the cost to acquire those six all of which I think give it security guarantees, which means that the current level of expenditure probably about four billion dollars a day. My big fuss of so maybe we can dial it back a little bit and still be fine. There's a lot there in this this whole discussion. I think it's it's very interesting. Just one point. We've definitely talked about this a lot. I totally agree with you, multiple guests. We've talked about is bitcoin inflationary or not is it more like, you know, like treasury shares being issued. I think I think it is. I think that calling it issuance is a better way to call the increase in the growth of coins. Because it's known every ten minutes rather than inflation, right and grown I've grown there. Myself. You know, I there's some places on our website where still call it inflation. But I just haven't updated all to probably calling it issuance. But I've I've found that from a few different calmest. And we've, you know, even our first interview with Dr recognized this like, unlike Fiat money or even gold. We know we do know that there's twenty one million. And certainly I think it would be unacceptable change for the core. Ethos of of bitcoin if that ever was changed. So completely agree with you there. Yeah. One thing. I like to say about inflation is that it's unexpected right and bitcoins issuance is not unexpected, exactly. And the ravages of inflation occur. When you you're purchasing power unexpectedly decreases, right? And that's what happens in, hyper inflation. So yeah, I think we're moving towards this world where we're trying to be a bit more careful about the words that we use these. And I I could ask you we're running a bit long. I could ask you more about what's the idea level security and how the fee market could. Look. So when it's over. But I think what I'd like to ask you is maybe just the more simple monetary policy question broad strokes. What is your conclusion on this fixed level of issuance from bitcoin stopping cabinet at twenty one million twenty one forty obviously the effects that will be much sooner? But if we get global adoption if it becomes a unit of account. What is your general -pinion on how bitcoins monetary policy will affect prices the economy so on and so forth? It may never become a unit of account. But I think that's okay. You know, since the since it's almost perfectly supply in elastic, the prices just a function of demand and since demand fluctuates over time the price sell fluctuates. I think that's okay. I very satisfied. Bitcoin was just as nice like alternative monetary system that lives outside the dominant paradigm. And where you could dip your savings into it. If you didn't wanna be subjected to local monetary policy, and then you'd accept the volatility in exchange for the trade off the assurances that you got from bitcoin. But I mean, I do think it study say that it would be much less volatile. But you know, I couldn't guarantee that in ten years, it'd be as stables the dollar, for instance. But I think the twenty million cap is. Visits arbitrary number. But the Cape the cop system in general, given the distribution has been quite good in the circumstances of its birth. Very fair. I think something that we should try and stick to. As far as actually extending the reward period. I think there's an interesting method here I'm going to sound like an obsolete heraldic for saying this. But I think you could start recycling lost coins from two thousand nine in two thousand ten let's say if you give you gave everyone five years notice, the you do this. If you if you wanted to delay the move to the fee market. You know, you could say well, listen on a I end I out basis, we're going to recycle. You check says that haven't moved since, you know, in the order of of age, he could say, you know, starting on January three two thousand nine we're just gonna look and see if any of those outputs have not moved because we know that many of them are lost. Probably there's something like one point eight million outputs that never left their coin base outputs. I don't mean that company. I'm in corn base, the technical term. So I think you know, if you gave everyone fair notice you could start by recycling those really really old coins to. You know to provide a new issuance within the confines that twenty one million system without having a breach the cop and extended to twenty two million. So that would be my emergency proposal. If it looked like the fees weren't going to be sufficient to give another five years for transaction volume to pick up and and for fees in dollar terms to be a smaller and smaller percentage of transactions, but just the push back. What is a sufficient fee market? I it's a good question. I think something structurally will have to change to the protocol. Because. You need a certain amount of smoothing to work is my understanding. And I think you could probably institute a moving average period of fee smoothing for minors, but AFI market that would work. I think would be something analogous to the level of security. We enjoy today which is about four percent of the protocols value is paid for and security to minors that seems to work. Well. To achieve that. I think I did the numbers, and assuming that the adjusted figures that I have for transaction volume. Correct. You need to pay a fee of a point six percent per dollar transacted on bitcoin to achieve that same level of of fees. Just because bitcoin transaction volume on an annualized basis is somewhere close to trillion dollars. So I think you can get there without too many concessions. There has to be this understanding the bitcoin split block spaces like scarce in rival and and worth transacting as opposed to any other block space. So that's really the challenges. Can we make it worth it? Can we make it sufficiently worth to induce people to transact and and pay for the privilege? I have just like as Matthew used to say, let's switch years right now. I'm gonna ask different questions. Some that. I I've been thinking about since perhaps, maybe. Twenty thirteen or fourteen and then the question regarding Gordon governments are going to ever use bitcoin or even central banks. And I think it's related to our current monetary system works when we started the history of money of the International Monetary order, and we analyze the current paradigm, which is based on the dollar, which is a that issued by the US government or the defense reserve, which is kind of owned by the federal by the federal government. It's fine. Because the the irony is right now, we have Bellas of payments deficits, and they're never settled back in the gold center back into before. Retin woods collapsed. Heads deficits countries data countries with would save gold flowing out of the country and vice versa. Creditor countries would see gold flowing in into their borders. But since we went off, the gold standard and off Broughton woods. There's no such assets. Cerro. This deficits now I cannot envision right now. We're going back to the gold standard nothing 'cause economics, but mainly because I mean, it's it's a technologic even logistical question. I mean, it's it's very difficult to to ship go the broad since cure. It's risky. It's dangerous. So I see that perhaps bitcoin could play this role in the future as being as being the final settlement. Assets even for central banks themselves or nations. So I this is for me to an open question senton that I- debate within the confines of my own mind. Every now, and then what do you think of this hypothesis? It's a good question. I think it's very hard to understand how this could be the case given the confines of the current kind of monetary system. Which is underwritten, you know, I would say primarily by the US which services like the nuclear on Ombrella for the let's call it the Washington consensus. Neo-liberal institutional is what you might call it in an international relations theory, I'm not necessarily a monetary economy. So I'm not as smart about this. But I would say if the dominant regime crumbles or altered significantly and a insurgent faction maybe China tries to promote its own standard than we'll have appeared of instability transitional period, I would say the previous transition happened. I mean aside from World War Two and happened kind of elegantly because all the other potential monetary underwriters were basically destroyed after World War Two and so the US Stockton easily there to to create the new system of of institutions there. But I think the next one could be pretty fractious, you know, pretty fraught and in that period of uncertainty bitcoin might thrive. So I think many people do perceive that the the US is, you know, unquestioned monetary advantage in terms of being serving the global reserve currency is being reduced and many, you know, powerful states currently have an incentive in in. You know, unseating the US is the dominant power there. So I think it has to happen in the context of transition there where instead of using the the petro Yuan, or whatever we assign of states agree, collectively to use a neutral money, you know, like shelling money like bitcoin, whether that'll happen or not can't tell you. But I think it will be an interesting black-market monetary GM for states, the one opt out of whatever the dominant one is. Yeah. So I think bitcoin will occupy an interesting space if the the major institutions, which kind of underwrite kind of Hege Monica monetary policy as pursued by the US if they start to crumble, but right now, it's very hard to conceive. How that world would come about. But you know, it reminds you that most kind of political scientist in foresee claps, the Soviet Union, and most communists, don't don't see the collapse of the of the US dollar coming. So that's kind of my face that this is more likely than than an -ticipant at and that is potentially. A good sign for bitcoin which could in theory be liquid and and functional enough to serve as a as a alternative monetary system and the good points. All right. Let's wrap it up. Just one more question as we close two parts is bitcoin mining going to boil the oceans and to have you found a company as a VC of venture capitalist that can solve this. Great question. I I had to hold back. My laughter at the conference at the Muffin professor came up to the stand and said big win was environment. Catastrophe those equivalent to five nobles, and I wasn't sure whether he meant five functioning Chernobyl reactors or five trouble explosions. But the the rhetoric point is what he was after. The the data in this to this question that data environment is is pretty poor. I'm aware of a few attempts to build a bottom-up understandings of where the energy the miners us actually driving from. And right now, a lot of the studies will just use averages like China's average energy mix to that to minors, which I think is not very it's not sufficient really to make a judgment as to bitcoin carbon emissions. And you know, probably optimistically bitcoins. Probably on the using at most one tenth of one percent of global energy. So really comes onto question of. You know when I hear this. Critique I think are you really deciding to undertake the task of determining the allocation of industrial energies in the world. And right now, Bitcoin's a fairly small part of that, you know, Christmas lights are big part of it too. And and aluminum smelting is colossal part. And you know, we have all kinds of nonsense out there that we use lots of energy on. And then I think the reason bitcoin is such an easy target is because it's very transparent in its energy demands. But it's it's really difficult to make the case that, you know, you know, the correct allocation of of energy because that's just a that comes down to thinking that you can plan the world's economy on top down basis. I think it's impossible. And I think the focus should be on developing a green greener more available energy sources. So there's an interesting breed of startups that I've started come across which I'd call type crypto. Which takes me sane gas, which is frequently vented at oil wells, which just goes directly into the atmosphere because a lot of these oils aren't on the pipeline infrastructure, and it's not to capture the the methane, and instead of venting it the startup would say, look, we can we can actually put this into generator capture the gas combusted turn into the actually the less damaging carbon dioxide, I think methane is something like thirty times more damaging from a greenhouse perspective than carbon dioxide, and then, you know, use that generated electricity to to to mind bitcoin. So that's an interesting case where I think a significant percentage of all mind bitcoins would be mind actually with otherwise stranded waste energy, which actually Melia rates the position of the climate. So I think. Bitcoin really will rely more and more on these stranded energy assets. Obviously first of all we'd hydro. Now. We might be looking at waste natural gas is I there's that five hundred megawatt hydropower, former aluminum smelter in upstate New York that's being refurbished. So, you know, I don't think big just draws on the energy grid. I think it really is alternative beasts that actually brings online its own sources of energy, many of which are are less damaging than just, you know, conventional coal. So it's pretty complex question and stuff pet peeve of mine. When researchers coming in an assign that the generic energy mixes places like China to to bitcoin miners, but my friend that is an excellent excellent answer definitely more detail than I even expected. So so very very very interesting stuff. Listen, we'll have to we'll have to do more on your. See efforts maybe another time. But as we close here any any further thoughts from what we talked about today. And if not want give our listeners information where they can find sure you find me on Twitter. Nick underscore, the score Carter someone else claimed the one underscore account. I blog pretty frequently on medium, finally their parting thoughts, I would say a question the dominant narrative on Bitcoin's environmental impact. And at McLeans per transaction costs too. I wouldn't listen to any of the the perceived authorities on the question, I would invite listeners to try and reason about these things for themselves. Great stuff, Nick will definitely linked to all that in the show notes coin metrics is just a fantastic side kudos on giving that project up and running and just it's really really fantastic site. Thanks, a lot for joining us and hope to talk to thank you so much Madden Fernando. It's been my absolute pleasure on thinking.

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The Bitcoin Podcast #315- Overbit CEO Chieh Liu

The Bitcoin Podcast

1:13:25 hr | 3 months ago

The Bitcoin Podcast #315- Overbit CEO Chieh Liu

"Now entering. CAST were. Superior? Thank! God. So. y-yo welcome to the BITCOIN podcast episode number three Hundred Fifteen. On the host the Spurs. You! Yellow after randomly. GonNa say after the Pie episode I'm so I'm so happy to have the Pie. Yes. Episode, that's a of episodes. We really went in there man. We're still going in there. We should We we need to. We always say to do this, but we never commit. We need to have drunken episodes. We need to have it more frequently. Because quite I on you drop about half of the episodes. Well, we need to I. Need to be drunk with you because quite frankly I need to be drunk or toxic eight. Or Beers in already. What are you drinking beer to get a bug? In coffee I have to go work out after the so I can't go drink. I gotTA drink after some say we gotta coordinate coordinate this better, because frankly cory I need to be intoxicated to deal with the shit coming out of the community these. Have to be. That's that's by the way for those who were curious about what the content of the episode is going to be. It's going to be US talking about shit coming out of this community. Lately. Man It's just so weird to have been something so long. To now kind of have this distaste for which to try to like reshad think about back in the day. How he felt about things and doing this. You're wrong like. Over the years. By host number two our other house, Talking Court Penny. It's me cool. Over the years of doing this. We've changed quite a bit I'm a lot more serious. Some a lot more invested than a lot more like a part of the ecosystem in a lot more knowledgeable. in the early days you go back and listen to like early episodes like me, you cello. If it was, it was hilariously nonsensical. Yeah. And now we're all. We're all grown now. No. On like that one dude that sold. Sold. Eggs for bitcoin Australia 'cause. That was dope. That's it was cool. I mean that's bad. About that, that's what Bitcoin was actually doing something, but now like I feel like it's like deja Vu. I feel like it's the same shape I get on a like take. Talk BEC-. When I saw some of that on Reddit. This week I was like oh here's uptick talker. bitcoin about he's talking about a white one. Security. Advisory Get rid of TIKTOK immediately? If you have to talk for phone, get rid of it immediately. It is just you thought facebook was bad about recording your data tiktok. Worse so if you haven't your phone, get rid of it. Delete everything, you've got to offer your phone away. It's still bad tuition gasoline on it. Light It on fire. STOMP it out. Light It on fire in. but the thing is. Cory is that it's fun to dance in front of your phone, so no one is gonNA. Take that. Anyway sorry. We're so jaded. We're so jaded. Now is so anyways. Bitcoin so this episode is brought to you by visions customs on twitter. He's been giving us. Yeah, yeah, he's been giving us like shoutouts because he's like oats. The BITCOIN podcasts won't talk about Bitcoin. Three week argument with this guy in the start out with me, saying. Yeah, we'll talk about bickerings. Big Ones Boring now like it's. It's gloriously boring. It's the closest to money or courtesy. It's ever been like it's not. Nobody takes twenty dollar bills in his like. ooh, that looks like they have a new serial. Number looks like we're in the twenty twenty series of twenty dollar bills. Google! Nobody does actually Kit somehow big going on the other part of that is that nothing has changed like nothing's changed that we've talked about change a lot especially with the bitcoin ago system. Yeah, people like workshop about this like. Here's your episode where we talked about that three years ago. I don't like I'm not I didn't start this so I can repeat myself every week. To. Cater pandered to the people who are coming into the show. When indeed information that they don't know about like the sheet has been going on for a long time. If you would like to know about it, do a google search. Nothing is changing. The same ship same missing Bitcoin then there's a lot changing other ecosystems, but it's like one of those situations you're like. It's not necessarily good I like there's a lot. There's a lot of innovation quote. Unquote innovation within different blockchain's. and it's yet to be like vetted in terms of actually. Be Worthwhile. About that stuff, but ultimately that's why you and I are no longer in education. Because I know you've been professor, you've taught before. And I was a teacher, but ultimately I think that's why we would align with that because if we were sitting same shit every year. It's like aw Hook Does Right Triangle Shit again of? For repeating itself for six fucking years. She's different ways. Some Howard other still is still repeating himself, and that's why it's not important. That's what I'd say. That's why it's not like. The may still be the go to guy when you're learning learning about stuff. I remember when I got into this with Oh shit. Undress has a new video that are watch it because we might learn something. And now it's like Oh is. Saying the same thing over and over again, but in a new way his reboot videos just like. Does talks because there's nothing else to talk about. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there are things to talk about bitcoin. Will the dude visit? These things out. From, big coin did because you know, he's not interviewing the same fucking people. We interviewed three years ago. So. Anyway him court. I. Don't know there's a few things you can talk about price. Boring Shit I'm not talking about it I. don't care because there's there's no science behind it. You just talk about what happened and that's the same thing is like CNN to brick. Reading tweets about things fucking celebrities say. I'm not doing that. If, let's case the technology changes. We have drastic movement. I'm not talking about it. We have people where like it changes their life. And they WANNA talk about it simply early days you talked to porn stars. We talk to people who are just living off of Bitcoin. We talked all kinds of different people. Whereas bitcoin was making an impact on their life where they couldn't do otherwise. That was interesting and that was fun. But like. There's a lot of that now. Kyle stores everywhere. Here so that we give against reach for what so see this a lot now. I don't know how it's coming up in such A. Everyday vernacular, but the cash coin shortage in everybody's scared that America's GonNa go to a cashless society. bitcoins Guy Unique. Part to deal with that just because. Now all the sudden. You really do have a need for some. Cash currency system that's outside of. A, pure. Government issued digital currency, but the the governor's like convincing the government to go with that. Happen, it's not. So now you're left with that scenario. That seems ever so more likely. There's going to be people that use big win. And outside of government issued currency, and then there's going to be governor issue Kersey. It's like one's always going to be sullied in out. Compartmentalized as the other people's currency and then there's government issued currency like. If especially, if we go to a cashless society, that's just going to be the way that it is I. Bet you point of sale systems one even like. charge a fee or something that will happen with someone tries to pay with Bitcoin or it'll just be the under the table kind of thing like you've. equivalency of being gadget will be bang. Gleaming Let's. How much are we going to assume that? Governments are going to pay attention to this stuff if they are only just coming to the realization like. Black people matter. You know that's a good question gory. It seems is based on like Previous episodes talked about black stuff like. Nation states will use will use things like bitcoin specifically bitcoin apparently because fuck privacy To? Fund things that they're not supposed to fund or like. Move money that they don't want kind of the. Treasury to keep track of that seems to be the case. and. That's such large volumes where it makes a significance in the use cases of bitcoin whereas like buying coffee. Doesn't really matter. And outside of that like. They probably don't care. Maybe, they'll use it to find I know that they use it to. They watch it to track illicit finance, so they can have more information about terrorist cells funding each other to do things that they would not like them to do across the board. All countries are doing that. And coined join. Puts up somewhat of a barrier to entry air, but I guarantee you a terror cells bitcoin. So they're basically just broadcasting their financial information. And that is something that governments are interested. Outside of that! You. Using Bitcoin to buy. adderall from India no-one Shit about. Outside of that like now, innovation happening I would say is not happening on Bitcoin. Is that not having be going. Maybe, they'll adopted later on down the line. When there's better security practices we've been hearing about. Things like kind of tap root schnorr signatures things like that for a while now, but I don't expect them to actually ever become a part of the protocol of Bitcoin because. There's so much change and the majority of the things happening liquid, which is not actually bitcoin. It's just like a multi state on top of Bitcoin. Thousand Interesting Discussion Inside of the slack this morning that the best platforms was joe talking about platform theory, the best platforms are captured more value outside of the base layer than they do in the base layer. That puts a huge dent and like. Be earlier considered as the hallmark of why the stuff is important, which is fat protocol theory, right? Like the reason why blockchain's are so cool is because the basically or captures all the value, but we're seeing now at least within the theory me goes is. A theorem is enabling a lot more value than the actual market cap of a theory. Myself ether itself right. So like all of the things built on top of it are worth more than the underlying like platform that enables them so all the money put into ether met market. CAP is smaller. Than some of the projects that use ethereal. Would think is the other way round a feel like there's so many instances in just like humanity were the most expensive shot as a top recreation will. It mimics how the Internet works today right? The value of all of the things built an Internet are captured in the application layer, and not in the protocol layer like TCP IP. DSP like all all different ways, in which like all the technologies that the application Jews don't capture any of the value. It's just. The application itself was need about blockchain's. Is that some of that value and earlier earlier thought the majority of that value is actually captured in the protocol. Like ether would capture that that's no longer necessarily like all the case, it's going to be somewhere between because turns out absolutes or fucking stupid. US like. Do you think there's any way around? Go interesting here, right? Is that A lot of these protocols are like application sorry. That are capturing all this value. Aren't necessarily married to the underlying protocol. And eventually, if something comes along, that is that solve the scaling problems fee problems whatever issues that we're having an underlying base layer. They can be ported. And all of the value, assuming that you have one mapping scarcity, say like let's dive for instance right dialers on top of theory I'm a stable coin in enables probably the majority of defy. Specialize over fifty percent. Now. If, you're able to just move die. Completely from a theory to some other ecosystem that scales better or has lower fees. Then all of value in intrinsic value that a theory of gifts gone. Or the takeaway in moved onto the other platform, so you have a wholesale movement of value because you have digital, scarcely move from one place to another. Transferring some some other layer. I don't know what it means. I haven't thought about that enough to. Sink about one how that's done if it can be done and. What the underlying value of the base layer is if you can do that. That were a tomek swaps. Play or am I. Speaking swaps swaps means that like. the assets still live on the individual chance. You have two different chains that are running parallel to each other. and. Atomic swap is going to lock funds on one chain. And then the other chain is watching for that to happen when it happens to say Oh, you locked funds over here I'm going to mid funds on my chain because I know that kept moving urging. And now you can move other chain. And then when you're done moving on my on my second chain. I'm going to delete them GonNa Throw them away, and you can now use them again on the original chain It never actually leaves. The individual chance. I'm talking about is a wholesale movement from one to another where like the value in the scarcity leaves one chain goes to another. And if it's the basis of like defy! Or decentralized finance what we build. The like the new financial system. That's going to have a huge impact on whether or not. People are going to use the original system. Say for instance deny. This. There's no reason for this to actually happen I'm just making a theoretic hypothetical here. Di completely leaves a Theorem. It was over to some other chain. All of the things that depend on die pretty much have to go with it. It's interesting because you know that's GonNa. Happen like that the. Like Murphy's law kind of thing like. I If theorem can't handle if it can't handle the transaction volume or for fees. Don't go down because they're. They're real bad. It's very thorough. High. Fees are higher on a theorem. The arm big. When did see that this week? Five minutes was gory. The five minutes crypto. smasher five minutes with our five minutes up. Yeah, there are much higher, and it's it's. It's prohibitively expensive. For most things. For some reason or other scam that are happening. Where are still throwing? DUB amounts of money into finding ended transaction fees. but yeah, let's also like what are you quite cool? I'm going to set you some money. Using bitcoin or any other options that are just as fast. To me, personally, that are probably cheaper. And I don't need to. Worry about whether or not you bitcoin out like that. We first started I'd say we first started as podcast. The ability to send somebody money. was severely limited in comparison today. Like. All of the different options that you have and this may be because Bitcoin is so like successful all the options that I currently have to send you money. Didn't exist. Didn't exist back then. You just had especially overseas. Especially overseas. Malek, now I could i. Basically, I'm using craigslist. I get people fourteen options on how I accept payment. In. Thirteen out of those fourteen options is based on the traditional financial system. So this is something that we spoke to you like two three years. The podcast I remember I was talking with you in cello and I was saying that Bitcoin crypto needs to get on his horse. Start Moving because the traditional. So this is that argument I made right. Blockbuster boosts slow. And, they lost. But the thing that allows you to move faster slow when you're talking about providing a proctor service is literally money. Right if you've got a big problem in each, you need to surmount, and you've got a giant giant pile of money. You could take that giant pile of money thrown at the problem. Get to solve real quick and adapted. But if you don't have right money, then I'm. I'm GonNA fight you on. Why didn't all the ICO's become successful? If that's true. Why are you guys Yo successful? Because they got a big pile of money, they got a tiny pile of money for the time penalty hundred million dollars. That's a tiny pile. One hundred dollars to throw out a problem brought. We print a trillion dollars a month. Would print a trillion dollars a month and if you're just talking to. What do you in your? Off Picture. A hundred million dollars should be able to get a lot done. You're right. You're absolutely right, but I think it's like. Taking away. What I'm saying is like the ability to adapt like the ability for your business to start doing something new. And I see! Oh wasn't like a business trying to do something new I see oh I'm a brand new business. Like that's that's different. That's like the start of the kind of thing, and if your software company out explained that your frustration, Asian players. Blockbuster. NETFLIX's comes along and says like hey. You know you put all these movies on the Internet. Right in the people ges like. Rent from the Internet instead of having to come in here. In blockbusters like what that stupid people love driving. Real Estate Yeah like no fan. People love getting in their car with a rowdy. Ask Kids every Friday evening in driving over here and telling their kids know thirty thousand times as they WANNA rent Barney in friends. You like fuck no! Nas on real overhead as sour patch, kids at they're buying right before they rip those movies. Absolutely right in the kids are can sacrifice kids know. Can I get revised? No, can I get cheetos? No, so like that's the whole. That's the blockbuster experienced right. If you lived it, then you know if you're too young I'm sorry. Ms Grey, times. Right, but so Netflix's comes in. You can just put all these movies on the Internet. If you will render from the airline out. Fuck back and then so netflix. So. Yeah. The river so good you can take the offer both and use it as a straw, because that's normal and it's so anyways. then Baba's OC we. fucked, up. We gotTA adapt. We gotta put our Shit on the Internet. They didn't have enough money to make changes needed. Quick enough to compete with Netflix. Anna made a stupid asses. Try to compete with red boxes than a Netflix. I don't know if you remember the blockbuster kiosks. There were like five of them I I saw. Remembers them because only like point. Zero percent of the population ever saw one. Else like this is worse, the red box you guys trying to compete with breadbox and did it worse. Is Done, but anyways blockbuster didn't have that. They didn't have bank money. They had blockbuster money so when they had to surmount a challenge they couldn't. They didn't have enough time. Banks have infinity money. So all they need is enough time to throw money at the problem to start to have the competing technology to make stuff like Bitcoin, either not make any sense from a currency standpoint. Because, it's like Oh, you know. Why would you use bitcoin something to somebody for free when you could just use Zely Z. E., l. e., whatever that shit is in my bank of America APP is just three. It's just as fast according to the consumer. Shoot that we come on. Here's the issue that we actually have like have all this. In terms of user experience. Traditional Finance is probably going to win. Because they have that money to build that in that, make it seem as though things are instant in fast and quick, and they can leverage the social networks that already exists because they don't care about privacy and security. Really And so. What we're. What we're seeing is a real fight. Of trying to get people to understand the. Value of caring about their privacy and security. Especially when it comes to find out for transactions. and. We're. GonNa lose that battle. We can't even get people to care. About black people. How. Are we going to get them to care about their passwords? Oh Jesus Christ. Don't say passers to reset so many passwords. Weekly Basis I don't know how became the Admin? This becomes like this is. This is the battle that we face because ultimately. blockchain technology gives people a lot of freedom and power back and responsibility. But. Most people don't want that responsibility power. Get there had to be severe consequences for three. Forgetting to do stuff right like that's. That's what keeps. That's that's the whole point. Is Social contracts like for example? If I don't renew my driver's license or renew all the credentialing, I need every year to to drive my killing machine. Then I get tough penalties for it. I get find. I have to go to. The courthouse wasted day at work. I got to explain to my boss while me. Responsible is like real you through like you can take care of work like. Like, that's that those are the ramifications of not playing the game. When it comes to like Crypto, there's never going to be anyone that punishes somebody for forgetting their private key, or or not remembering their password like imagine if bake, your funds are got sorry, no customer support here. Are Gone but imagine the change in society. If banks were like. Hey, guess what you forget your online banking password. You've gotta come to the bank to get it back. Nah Fuck that you forget your online banking password. You don't have any funds anymore. Oh would be different. That would that would cause ramp cast. No one would ever. That's Bitcoin I. Know But people don't understand that they don't they don't. BITCOIN cash. Your Standard think about how much people would care about Goddamn Password. It will care a lot. They will care a lot. Yeah? So! It's I. Don't know there's aren't that note. Today's interview today's interview. God they're gonNA. Be pissed off like damn. These fucking outages went off on all this pessimistic things for Bitcoins, realistic of it's realistic very difficult as as an ecosystem, the boards blockchain, who incredibly different problem to try and solve, and that is getting people to care, but their privacy and security. We can rebuild the entire financial infrastructure on top of. This new technology. What does it give us if you don't give a shit? About taking responsibility for your financial freedom. It doesn't mean anything. If you demand the same convenience in the same things about offloading. That could be just someone else to take before for you then. Nothing is new. Go Away. Nothing's going to happen for you. This isn't going to be your ten thousand next. I'm going to get rich quick scheme. That's not the point here. Well the suction Kinda gets into a deeper conversation, Corey when we're talking about privacy and security. That is such a Fluid definition. I think. Right like for example I've lived in communities were no one locks their door. No one has fences that will unlock the door. Everything secure everything is safe. In from a privacy standpoint, those same communities are the ones that leave their blinds open at night. So they're doing anything. You can just look right into their house by Oh cool. They're having a party. Where you live right those this'll be like gum. Country places like in Texas like country. I guess I do that like I live on a lot of land, so nobody looking through my window. Yeah, but the the security involved with where you lived is is layered in different like nobody could probably even fucking. Somebody's trying to do dirt in the community where you live like they might accidentally stumbled upon it like it's Kinda hard to get to like open them. If someone's someone's at my house. They're really stubborn about not traveling around. Yeah. It's not easy to get to your grid right so that's a different kind of security is like security by obscurity like in so? It's one of those things to where security and privacy change. You know from person to person almost in community community family to family to where if you're trying to? To redo the behaviors involved with that on the Internet were. No one has even thought about remotely thought about any of that stuff, ever their entire lives then. It's a steep hill to climb. In, the thing is that when you start talking about privacy and security when toxin online things with people. They start looking at you like you're bastiat crazy. They don't even want to know they're like. What! No what what does https what an unlike? Like. Really Solut- like. Anything there when you have a lot of issues in terms of like. Facebook your data Cambridge Analytica was a big step in the direction of people understanding that the platforms the user just treating them as products. There's something fundamentally broken with how the Internet works. In terms of like using the Internet becomes the product people are worried about. Their felons listening to them their lesson to them, they're they're you know Google? Whatever listening to them and the right because they are. That's happening, but it's only now that people are starting to realize the fact that that's happening in their becoming like. I don't like that I don't want that to happen. I don't know listening to me pooping. But. That's it's real than so like. The way the Internet works the Internet works. Basically. It's been optimized to serve you ads space in the things that you do. The Internet today. The entirety of the Internet is saying. What are you doing? Okay, I'm going to serve you ads so that you can. Buy Stuff. And what the blockchain ecosystem is trying to do is get rid of that. It's the stop that. Fundamentally in my opinion, that's that's why I care about this technology. Do Yeah I? Hope I hope that happens I, really do. Because, it's going to get you know. There's some fucking scientists out there. That is doing some sort of probability mapping and trying to predict ads shrub lied to your face dependent upon what you're thinking about, and they're like I bet you if he said this within a certain timeframe was saying that he's thinking about buying this so now gimme raw like. There's some row convenience that because I've been served a lot of as like Oh fuck I. Want that that. Let's not let's not get to to two twisted here. Like a part of that is nice but I want to I, want to opt into it. I want I want that to be something that I up into and say yes. Opposed to saying is supposed to something that I don't have a choice out. Like minority report the thing that scans your eye and then serves ads that only you can see as you're walking through the mall. That's what I want. Okay with it. Just don't give that information. Other people like just new I kinda like that yeah. But anyways. so today today's interview as Overbid overbid is a it's an exchange that does I leverage trading. Margin. Marge leverage. So you play with fire like you bet a little bit and make a lot, or you can bet a lot and lose a lot like it. It's margin trading. Margin trading little different instead of like. Guessing, what the price is going to be in profiting on when the price? It's that an yoursel order? Or by our sell, order hits, you guess which direction the market is gonNA move from a single point, and then you're paid the further. The further moves the more money. You make right, so you're like okay. The out D. that's right. That's right. Any so that like magic? or As a magic school bus music rights of like let's say we have token X. until connects is currently were too, and you say okay. I think it's going to go up from two dollars and twenty five. Since you push your place, your bets, your big old bet, right and you leverage that at ten accede take five hundred dollars leverage at Tennessee, really playing with five thousand every time it's going above two dollars and twenty five cents. You're making more and more and more and more money. Now, if making not a buddy would make. Times, the leverage that you have. Yeah! Is Deep so also. Direction. You're losing the amount of money that you would have time celebrity leverage fisher. Ron, so you lose your money way faster than you make your money. Yeah, so you've got to put in things called. Stop losses and stuff like that, so you make sure that if you guess wrong, your boat doesn't sink. You know you just close a closer one of those things. What boats have like to take on water in? Close it off when they could still. Exist I think you're right. Our. Balanced attack. Yes Oh stop loss is closing the balance. If you say the prices go up from to twenty five and it goes down to like. If you know you're GONNA. Lose all your money. If the price is down to a dollar fifty, the you might WanNa put in a stop loss at like two dollars and twenty cents, so you don't lose all your fucking money right like. That's that's how that game play, but does the game I haven't played in many many moons glad I don't anymore. so. I think he's the margin trade with two. Which is like? We did. Bananas. To me the thing that we're we're doing that. Don't Shit! We we made so much money doing manual trading, and we put it on a lot and lost it all the win. Lose it all. We analysis at all. We didn't believe. We lost well. That's what everybody lost after twenty seventeen. And, we basically our own stop laws like we don't stop this right now. This is GonNa fucking shit all our money into the. To a whole so. anyways. Overboard bit he. Is. Hey. What's up, everyone Welcome to another one of the BITCOIN podcasts interviews We have so so if you guys don't know you don't know, but overbid is hot on the streets right now. And and that s why we brought them in. We brought the CEO overbid in to talk about why they're on the streets, so without further ado, she she, Lou do man while to show. Hi. Thanks Tim thank you very much. WELL WE'RE GONNA keep pretty standard man. We Who who is she and how you? Intersect Crypto blockchain bitcoin all this. Crazy subculture that we're all a part of in love. How did you intertwined with it? Like I know you were doing something previous crypto. What was it was your story? Or I saw. A long story I can make it a shoulder. Comfortable. Right I think backing. Think a brown. Oh this around seven. Six seven years ago. So we have. A Computer Science. Studying the states to We have a group of people be much where we were. And then just involve some stuff. And then. After graduated here, so one of the guys say hey, there's a bitcoin coming up I mean. You. Guys Want Chikao so I see okay, so I should get myself bitcoin. And it looks okay. digital's stuff ended at that time. It'll what that is, so I purchased some and then. And then a couple of years, ater retirees and he does. Oh, there's a failure stat coins so. I started to Oh. This is some being receivers. Than, I start to get my. I even do my mining myself a home. And then. Later on. We tried to I was in A. Company too, so we trying to build our mining to While he was a failure, but we are not so. We I know I took a couple. Listen from the Russian and because so. I I can see myself, I. Entered this Russian. Around two thousand fifteen. At that time and then. The price of the Bitcoin is just move a lot and then. At the same time I was out for a treated as well so trade and then. I wanted to trade because at that time. The Oni trees mixed I'm talking about leverage ratings on margin trading speed mix. Look at This is too complicated for me and I'm thinking. This is also to communicate for most of the trade. And I think going to crypto trading. Most people are quite new to trading. Probably don't have experienced for for trading as well. So by attention will be making a new training platform, which is e C. For people to use even for November trader. So that was my intention to make over and then. Lucky I. Have My team. In UK. Also building afforest system before. So I can put the team entirety to overbid. Because the system A. Fundamental. Is the thing that you do the same thing before route crypto? And securitywise. Somewhat is the same, but then crypto you have the. Wallet is something new. So that part of. To ensure care all. And then this whole overby started in started last year February. is growing fast man. From what I hear from what I from what I? Ever a couple people talk about over bit. And I know everyone so numb getting out auto, but. So you're trader men. Are you committed to shouldering the responsibility of being the next like? Layer of adoption that has to push this whole industry for 'cause I i. think it was like miners right? The miners came in. That's more like wildfire. Everybody tried to mind until they couldn't compete anymore just. Got Bored with. In our feels like markets, an traders are redefining or at least. Arnaud. I don't WANNA say stabilizing mortgage, but you guys are the customers right now. Providing injured points like the interface to a lot of the stuff that this for the majority of the users and utility of cryptos. It's mostly people like using as an investment vehicle or trying to get their hands on. It through. Fiat are some other tokens so they can do something about it. People will. If you get this year trader, a big part of. I mean in. In this right now and Also issued. More institutional Occurring as swell so I see. Myself up I cannot. Is Not I. Can I don't have time to trim on my own? Behave so right what I can do for to push in the adoption of auction of cryptocurrencies. I wanted to do it in educationwise. Because in Asia lies. As talk about a Korean China Japan. I can see vision in two thousand seventeen therapists. A high of ICO product. So lots of people getting into Crypto, because not because of because because of ICO, because of those all kind can get. At fifty six hundred eggs within few months. End After that the pressure just jumped. Dramatically! People our guest Gary Of. Game or something? and. While yet people. This as opportunity to make money for myself, this is wrong, so a high emmy. High is wrong and we need to fix it. So need how I can fix it is I I keep producing as educational content to people to spread. What is Bitcoin? Is Smarter and trading is not a gamble this. What I am always talk about and to let people know what is correct way to try. And correct concept behind Russian and. There's no more. No more whatever Tang as twenty S. Upi Real realistic that this is A. Investment product, so don't do get. Those opportunity does a high. we don't want that. And yet I wanted. To do it slowly. Because people like Dow really catches up this especially in Asia. So. Bit World's leading bitcoin margin trading platform. Could you take a minute? And explain to some of the members of our audience like what margin trading is if they're not familiar with it? Okay. Margin trending a easy way to see. A. Let's say you have a bitcoin. And then get less before that you have. Daughters then you want to buy bitcoin you to. As changed right? You is change it. To be, so we called. That is a spot trading because To buy something you exchange, it had to change. And if you want to make profit, some people still may property. In spot trading wages, they buy bitcoin the way for the price right way for press to go up. Seven Right there, so that's the way and did all kinds they wait for vice trading margin trading is I, we don't use fee it. Because a lots of a regulation and most of the country don't accept that. So. We use become so. You can. You can trade again A. Bitcoin you start. So you you either you speculate the price of becoming a starter either go up or down, so we go along or going short. Then you can pace your. Prayed, your position into long position or shoppers issued. And MARDI trading all also offer high leverage. So leverage mean if you pay one become an with hundred x leverage, which means you are you are? Placing order with. One hundred Bitcoin, but then you only use one becoming assure margin. So that can leverage your trading your investment power. To again more Of course. Bring you high risk? Begin a hundred exit average. So a little bit movement of the price can let your position or the Tros down. Forced to close down. So. A good way to practice the. Mortgage is over. We offer demo account so if you register. you'll get a coin or fifty thousand USD. To practice. I tell people to practice before trading because. Most people mess out before that. Don't know what margin trading. and. We. We are eaten a really good. Having a lot of social media right now. Special tweeter people can today. Be, kind is going out going to the moon, and when you see this, especially on New Year's Oh damn. I will buy now. Say Oh Yeah. He's got a great story about The pitfalls of margin trading. When I first. On I. TRY TO TRAE way I wanNA get some good. Did you say fifty thousand has DT? You didn't say fifty thousand USD did. Your is the practice, so we'll give practice out and. Oh fake money! Okay, all right, okay. I was like what like. HOW MONEY OKAY! Yes, my first time with margin trading was coined, and it was like who's way back in the day. When US accounts could be open on I think it was called Okay coin. Yeah Okay Coins Carina thing. And Yeah I lost thirty six coin in like I. Dunno two minutes. So as soon as I. Like you know I would go along and I was like Yes 's it. I'm about to be rich with his one TRAE. This is going to be the one and I went long with thirty six point in five minutes later. All of my life was gone. So Yeah, be careful, everybody. Be careful because you can wait, you can lose just as you win. See this as a casino, but. Not twitter, you people come in your order yourself so you have to study. You have to know what the product and before you trading so Just become for greedy become end. Be Cautious. In newgate at your investment. Portfolio. So. How does how does over bit? Why is it different? Why are you able to do? What you're able to do. That Edward others can't wire you better. Okay I. Don't see ourself a banner. I mean To Compete I don't try to compete with light. You not be no-one can compete them right now. Dr.. Light the tree offbeat compared to onder. Is like by a lot and what we can do, is we? We see different a needs so different people beat NASA for myself I think he's more for professional trader. Open API right. I see A. Portion of people. From no vice trader. We actually did a survey I think. Four feet three months ago. About trading light trading traders preference. So there's around. Two, dozen firing people participate participate this seventy. Over will is not only overbid users. To ask. Holiday, train Was your trading experience. How will aren't you and then? The recent Komo is seventy central that those people only have. One year or less trading east brings in eat acquittal for X.. So which I, my attention intention before I was saying people mostly from a Novak trader and I was right. Seventy percent are not traded if those people go to be mixed. I can say that. They will lose money because of the price movement. East because they don't know how to use pratfall. So overbid advantages. By really simple to use. So I if you log into a you, don't even need your lock into over. You see our trading. Without me. It be really simple interface and. Said? There is a demo training practice, so you can go to their at noon practice. And it's not a test and you don't need to be positive. Be something. We provide you with the fate becoming a fake USD to to dinner. And secondly There is our night two hundred. Trading Platform Right now group beautiful two hundred dollars. Or more? and. We have a appoint system. Like a role in urology prices to miss. The more you train over will accrue humidity the point that you get used at point. To Redeem Real bitcoin. Or Real USD. And you can get up or you can't trade with it. and. This is something different than. What you're saying the exchange coin night. I MINUS COIN BNB. A lot of people asking us why not you guys not making your own all coins. So I to back to Gaza weekdays. We are trading platform. We are not a brought chin. Tech Company. A coin a coins should us for launching. Stuff is not for us to. crowdfunding to together your money. Light doesn't make sense. I can I can fund myself might might might trading platform pretty well? Why I need use your money to. Make our phone, and then you guys will look at Mike cline price you've might point. Price is going down. You will see mine. Trading prevalent is doing bad right. People will have this kind of concept. Oh, your your price going down your your your issues can be shit. Say Oh, no, no, that's not true, so we don't want to do. Of Light. By looking at price in judging whether you're good or bad. And so we take this. We don't do crowdfunding we. One hundred percent well self-funded is doing great. We see DOSS vice come in. We also see professional training because we have demo account, people can use their strategy pace on trading light that indicator to try on our. Profile and I see lots of people. Don't feign over, but the use our demo. That's totally fine. They can use our demo county practice their own strategy than they will use it in other is change and that's fine for us. So? Energy is is this. So, you also traders they use over Bacon, also access for X. Inc. oddities markets to. Yeah so. My big win for like oil. Is that what you said what I'm? Somewhat yet you can usually caught, and then you can trade. Oil is not yet. To be. Yet man is dangerous territory man ready for that. You can do. Yes, you're right and. We, we can. We hedged his. WE DO WE'VE A. The critic provider so ourselves the risk. Letting, people do for us a commodity. Is. Big For us we do have the liquidity. Provider To Hedge against those traders. Okay well Google it's. Like. You can't do that because this isn't available for US citizens Can you tell us why? Not Get. Why what's wrong with the US market? Can you give us some insight as the issues that we may have with our regulation that keep platforms like yours from from offering services? You S regulation is just who come to compress for like foreign trading platform, and then for us to enter U S, we have to be comprised with lots of different stuff. and. We don't want to. In, somewhat screw up. Our Way of expansion. So you has target, of course, we will look at of after us, docket it just not the. First Year market we knew for adult use is big like the market's really. But the effort to put in the inconvenience and do that. Regulation is allowed I. If you get beat next, they don't even have. You know they cannot take as well. On. Lots of different that big at margin trading preventable. Don't talk to us. This is the current situation because it's hard to gain. And not! Use especially US citizen. For Myself I cannot screw up to any unit is. If I stepped in Do the wrong step. I am pretty much out in the big rich. So we could pay careful and see how US regulation is. If there's a window, we can enter. Of course we are getting for sure. Sorry my country's wack man. Right now we're going to some growing pains. We'll get it figured out. Are you longer. You Short I'm big on. if you. long-term. long term will be long. That's for sure you look at the fundamental bitcoin. The limit of limitation of debt supply. And then the more people getting into becoming. A an the long. The Peoria is say like if you get a long term is I'm looking for at five ten years I'm not talking about when two years. There's so many fatter going in in to because. Traders Institution. Twitter. I, it's funny. How through? Area be part of the veterans. And TIKTOK now. Over. So Shorten talking about Edmonds, years. Because still pretty much file and the volatility of the big plays. In know average is around four to six percent. Per Month. More than ten times so. debt provide lots of of a key for traders in short term. People more conservative Yes, they will, they will be more. They would just buy it Like owed will see for us. And hopefully will go up and myself looking at five years. Of course, he will go up. Like that 'cause validates what I think I liked by things that. So you gotTa Unique Lens into the Asian market light you says here a year introducing educational materials into Japan Taiwan. Hong Kong China like what is it? What a something! That's like unique to Asia. Market in how it? identifies with or views cryptocurrency in blockchain. That's different than the rest of the world, because all we I feel I. Always get is like bread crumbs of news like you know if China sneezes than you know two weeks later, we figure out that something happened and they needed a tissue like I've. What is the real temperament? Well, I think for Crypto that the. The stuff happening in Asia compared to other crunchy. Is Hard the same? Asia People Amar. I can find English war. Wanting to risk. Their e C. to trust people they are you. Just don't think too much. So. They won't trust, their. Men Her. So whatever is. Like, a trading, professor or light whenever? The inferences say they will listen to the inversions and we know it even thinking. a lot in China Korean chip Japan. and. So at two dozen seventy. That's what happened. Those inferences talk about ICO of Oakland. Hey is Klein. Trust me. You will become the next. In six months. Oh those people. They learn the doesn't end. By by now, those people don't trust. crypto anymore. Because of those inferences fall. And lots of those inference already. Lie Go to dinner. being or something of a Thailand Malaysia to finish their life. We've their money. You say they're skim well they. They have the way to get the money from the investor and. They did help versus to invest just that product. Is going wrong is not the wall, so that's how they used their excuse. For us to education them. We have to go back to serum, so we have to say cruise West Beca- because Than halted trae. Just discovered Nike host also offline meet up. Alison will go to different countries to. Those medium to sprint people in person face to face people in Asia they love face to face too because. They! See you trust you. Really, so. I like to sit down and. This today Doing like that off nine am. You just need to. Do this ally. Answer your question. I mean it's not dissimilar from what goes on the rest of the planet, which is still like you know. Everybody is like that once people start. I? DuNno core. Would he think man? I it kind of the same thing was over here in the states like. influencers and people started saying this and that about. Whatever random all choline I see oh, back in A. Twenty Seventeen I. mean the. Kind of the same. Yeah. I think it's sending Asia, just they. They will put more money. Down died when these circuit put one hundred hundred dollars for just. The. Euro I can be more careful only a few bucks. Somebody like that I think. There's. A bunch of high. And the ability to potentially make money. There's GonNa. Be People that kind of surround that space and. Over hype it. To the far beyond what it's actually good for. And when you have platforms that offer. A, tremendous, amount of leverage. Then it's. It's as a playground for people to kind of do that. Even though like potentially it's an. That there's a balance. There's a balance there between What you offer. Your customer service you allow them to do. like rope. You give someone the hanging cells, because if you give all the, there's going to be plenty people that hanged himself like. How do you? How do you find that balance or had? Going out educating people as a tremendous effort in one that certainly worthwhile, but even when you do that, it's always going to be. A Lotta people who just cough hang themselves because. To have all that to do with? The. Wait there's going getting around that it's it's it's. It's an inclusive in permission list, technology and. If if? If you don't do it. Someone else will endanger have the morals or ethics or a desire to educate as much as you do. In fact, they may just be a scam and walk off your money. I don't know I. Just kind of think that even people that aren't so right now. I feel like the only kind of people in society in this might be global, maybe users than states that get to take the high risks are people that make are worth a lot already. But to me. That doesn't may sense that like your average Joe. Can't take risks as well like I mean if anything, why is it so? Bad that they get to take risks with smaller amounts of money. Maybe I'm just thinking out loud. It's not even question I'm just this dusty you as you. Volleyball, that thought around if you want. I don't know like we have for from our perspective Ignorance to the rest of the world outside, of America over respect to. The culture around investing. We Have Wall Street and then the people who look up to Wall Street to be be those types of traitors, folks What's the rest of the world like in? Other large cohorts people who. I don't know if you look in America. It seems to me is that you have a very small group of people who really know how to play on these markets and have strategies and how to? Navigate them and make. Relatively smart decisions with their money or like. They understand risk, and then you have everyone else. which is a very large pool that would like to be like that maybe thinks like that. That has none of the skills. And so like most of Americanised is financially literate. And of the people you narrow I think noxious. So that's simple as a similar story. So let's switch it up a little bit. How over bit? future-proof itself. In an environment where the centralized exchanges are getting better and better and better at both finding and building liquidity was was their number one issue. which would always be a number one is you if you're trying to tie waltz, wallets? But now that that's kind of building momentum. How is over bit positioned to? Grow. Fast. Skin. Dissension is is changed, so so we are not a descended is changed to. I would like to see. A. More adoption for is change Idris? Because the liquidity off the distinction is Shane compared to centralize that compared to those big. Is Shinji just. Match up, so the opportunity for to treat in decentralize. Is Less than than others so this. We. We. Kinda. Stop there right now. And I think. Those be company. Vina's, they are doing centers and some others as well. I hope we can see more and more stuff. I see Ben company a next become any of and they will. Help this society a lot. More effort into to that special education people to wide is good for US margin trading to become a. Isn't Because our. Liquidity our order book. Is Large because because pay with leverage. By Enterprise, which means traders against each aren't. management internally in external wny's is. Is Difficult just. Read so so for US looking to become a decentralized. It takes time. Appreciate the honesty. Probably won't you it in few years. Like his tough. No I like it. I like it. That's true though. well, I think about romantic questions. Will buy you. Anything. You would have liked us to ask that we didn't ask you. Is there. Is there any questions that you hoped? We would have asked that we didn't ask you. I think you cover. What I wanted her. Last question in this artist questions ready for it. Was Up to come on just getting. Ten million dollars now In ten words or less key used grab boxing. Hanworth. Is brought in. Okay. What is brought in? Seven words good job. Oh my God okay. No I'm kidding. I'm kidding go. Go. Well. Brockton. Is a new technology. That will leave in our life weather. Face I don't know. This tune words yeah. Already so I know you've shade honesty because you just used it on the question that I asked you. I don't want because as ten. Were you say ten words, so let the audio. Nectar audience. Luckily? All the guests we've had in the I got five six years. You've been doing this that actually like cared that much about. The limit like I did words abducts our. Great. A. You're on a game show. You just want and a slick way like it's technology, though exist in the future. Okay all right fair enough so. Easy way is because lots of people don't believe it at believe it. brought him will help us. I think it will to. We've got a long road to go. Well Gee. Thank you very much resume by. We. Appreciate it, thank you. and. Then when overbid is. Like King of the world except for in the US, can you come back? Home. Expert!

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Show 74: Max Hillebrand - Shared Ownership of Scarce BTC with Multisig on Lightning

Crypto Voices

1:13:06 hr | 1 year ago

Show 74: Max Hillebrand - Shared Ownership of Scarce BTC with Multisig on Lightning

"Hey, everybody, welcome, welcome to shows seventy four here on crypto, voices that your host here from Latvia. My co host, Fernando Alrich is saving the Brazilian economy, this month doing a lot of boom bust courses, and is too busy to podcasts, which is just fine. Because he's going to be happy doing that. And I'm gonna be very happy talking to our next guest from Germany max hill. Brand max is an open source, entrepreneur, and recent undergrad from a university in Germany, Max's based in Baden Wartenberg. He is a YouTube host on the world. Crypto network hosting many different show formats, which will get into and today, we're going to talk about his bachelor thesis, which he is open sourcing, while working on it, simultaneously on get hub, he is a solid learner in. Teacher, who is also very well versed in the technical aspects of bitcoin, and I'd say specifically on the usability level. So if you want to learn how to do the perfect bitcoin wallet setup definitely follow max for that at least next thanks for joining. And welcome. Hey, what's Matthew? Thank you very much for inviting you to this. Awesome, awesome show. It's a shame that none of his nuttier. But, but you know what? I guess, the only excuse for missing a solid podcast is to Schill Austrian canonic, Sam bitcoin crazy as very good that he's schilling. Good stuff, and saving the economy in at least at least we can say is doing that, and not just like going surfing or something. He he's always keen to talk about those things, as I know you are, as well, just maybe before we get started, why don't you for those that don't know give our listeners a little background on, perhaps, your YouTube channels, what you doing bitcoin? What interests you as far as educating bitcoin? So. I've always been entrepeneurship always been working in selene, and solving problems for others, and those very rewarding. And I really learned a lot through all these years. And I was also for for a long, long time interested in economics and started, of course, with the default, Keynesian bullshit. And then very quickly. Switch to answer cannot makes to get some really canonical insights, and that was all before I really got into bitcoin, but then falling into the bitcoin Vava tool strengthened here, my understanding of economics, especially such a complex disipline as bitcoin is. But it also kick me down the cipher punk grabbed all, and how important is to use these great tools with liberty that we have our defense, and this just to enter to experience, what we can build with this awesome stuff and which problems, we can solve, which is fantastic. And then the, the aspect of teaching is very important to me, because raising your peers and sharing the knowledge, the non scares. College that we have all accumulated is very important and vital to grow. Good libra society. So I'm very excited here on the crypto nitric to share all the stuff that I know about Austrian conomic and the cipher tools that we have at disposal. And I think that combination is quite interesting. How many how many different shows do you host? Oh, punch of them of we upload videos, about whatever seems interesting, I guess the main shows is one called read, Wath, barred us become, which is a show where we talked to a bunch of good Austrian economists and bitcoin entrepreneurs about their economic endeavors that they're on, or for example, open sores everything, which is show, where we then talk about the tools that we haven't disposal, which is quite nice, and maybe specifically than separate playlists for it was like, Sabi wallet. I think forty videos by or the bisque decentralized, cellphones exchange or of course. Nautile which is your plug and play financial sovereignty battle station, or the gold card, your hyper-secure of line, cold storage device, and like all these different tools. I have playlist for with a bunch of step-by-step to to'real on how to use them and how to do it today. Led along with with what we might be able to build in the future. Completely agree. It it's huge just to learn curve is steep from any, and I would definitely courage. Our listeners to check out maxes tutorials and videos, there will certainly linked to all the shows in the show notes for our show. I really commend you on that max. I think he'd be great job with that. And you can tell that your interest is keen, but also, your, you know, your willingness to educate and help out the average user. Let's say I think that's really that's really impressive. So could've you for that, but I want to guess focus the majority of the show here on something, which is very rela. Good for you in your university life or completing it, you have your thesis on Guetta, which first of all, I think that's very interesting. It probably don't see too many just stations or germination, periods of different thesis, ideas on, on get hub. So why did you decide to do that? Because of open source everything. These, these ideas are not really mine. I don't own them. I don't really control them. I just work with them. And I want to share this knowledge usually do not just to get the reach into to share this idea and to make it more powerful, but also to get feedback, which is vitally important. I mean, all of the stuff I've learned from others, and so I need their help in order to make it better so, so gaining their support and inning their contributions back as phenomenal. I mean, the importance of having a good appear review processes is, is vital. I of for example, I've talked with Yoenis Nick developer on, on the bitcoin core project for hours many hundreds of hours, probably about all this stuff and ultimate would have no chance of even getting my head around this, or for example, in the book by Stefan can sell on intellectual property. It was it was so mind shifting from me that I, I need to. Share this information with him in order to get his insights in how to make my process, even more sharp and precise. So there's absolutely no question about this about the cool thing is every commit throughout the history of the writing process is GP signed with my keys as not just as everything source. You can also verify for yourself. That was actually written by me, which I think is quite nice. I was we've seen this in the open source software world. But there's no question that a lot of these ideas will continue and will continue to be bridged into the tech world, fintech world technological world. And I think that's really cool that you're sort of pioneer in that way and doing that for your thesis. I do want to touch on Concetta and intellectual property and software in that regard. But I guess before we get there. Why don't you enlighten us on on what you're says? So I've been thinking about this for a long, long time. And especially ever since I came. Mm into bitcoin, and the kind of cool, the nation of long journey on different subjects of theory, and applicator or applied science. And so the title of the thesis is very long very convoluted, but I think it's very meaningful, and it's non simulated shared ownership of scarce bitcoin with multi sicknesses in the lightning network. And the entire structure of the thesis is in three parts, the first one, apraxia, logical study off the axiom of scarcity, which is this attribute of exclusiveness for economic goods, which we can touch on a bit in the future. And why this is so fundamentally important, and how it is the, the fundamental axiom for property rights and mutual, beneficial exchange and why it's also the complete entities, two forms of governance, like of slavery or communism. And then also the power of non scarcity which is in cyberspace and, and open the open mind of, of LeBron knowledge, and how big Clinton applies both of these things to emerge. Lebron open source, money scares money, which, which is phenomenal. But then, the second part is about the shared ownership aspect of bitcoin, and how we can use some ideas of non scarcity to enable this co ownership of ERI scariest asset, which is quite fundamental against the axiom of scarcity. So, so it's worth explaining how exactly this works. And especially then very important parts part three on the use cases because this should not just be small science and theory of mathematics and photography. But especially to be something that, that guides entrepreneurs into solving problems for them and their customers. So this, the part three unused cases will be a bulk where really going to different. Things that you can do with this. Like just two or three multi signatures, just unbelievable. Puhl. Yeah. And maybe just to in lightness. Basic question, obviously, you can do multi sig on regular bitcoin on chain, Utech so transactions why have you decided to specifically say multi Sieg in the lightning network as part of your faces because the lightning network is really one of the unbelievable powerful things that we can do with nonsense related shared ownership where where we can quote unquote, long up, bitcoin into a script that defines there, several parties that have shared ownership of this bitcoin of this UT Exaud, because they can spend it under these conditions and because it's such a because it's not simulated right that the beca- network works and every UT X gets validated. And it is only spendable with the right script. It's, it's never broken like it's fantastic. It's longer relation to have these property, right defenses. So we can build a extremely advanced. Economical systems like the lightning network of direct exchange of Lieber sound money to achieve something that is mind boggling beautiful. I think it's very worth to, to cover here. What the fundamental axioms are that, that, that make this ozo- powerful completely agree? So why don't we move into that? Then can you explain a little bit on your part one? There you have a lot written a lot of good stuff on scarcity on liberty on what truly defines ownership. Why don't you start out about your, your part one what you're trying to do there s so it all really starts with scarcity, and with all starts scarcity? I mean literally everything the entire belief structure, of, of free individuals and property rights, and, and sovereign exchange and all this is something that is fundamentally based on scarcity. So it is vitally important to understand this axiom because out of this rock. We star. Building this entire mindset that we have as those scarcity simply a binary and tribute. So either something is scares or something is not scares. And the attribued is exclusiveness, which basically means for example, if you have a would log ride just piece of wood them either Alice can build a house with it and Ellis can use this, log to shape it to like, build walls to build Reuss and whatever. And she cares the ultimate control over this scarce good. But this means that at the very same time Bob can not use that same Woodlock to build himself a boat. It is impossible for Bob to use the same scarce resource to a different task at the same time it is that is impossible. It's not how the universe works, and we see this in everyday life. If you drink water, it's gone, you cannot make come back again at us it somewhere else and. That is very important, but it also means that there is a potential conflict of control because now who gets to use this would is that to build the house, or is it Bob to build about. And now we need some form of economical and moral rules that we live by, in order to allocate these scarce resources to their most fulfilling needs or tasks. And that is their three different ways of doing this right either property rights individuals owning themselves, and their goods that they've homesteaded and neutrally exchanged for, and that is based on voluntary interaction and mutually beneficial, or we have slavery with a masterclass, enter slave class with a masterclass controls to slaves to whatever extent, or we have utopia or communism where everyone owns everything, and anyone can take whatever because doesn't really matter. And these are the three options that we have. And I would of course, argue that that liberty is the only one that is based on LA. We can reason what were your primary sources that you were using to delineate these three different types of allocating resources. So the fundamental axiom here of scarcity was absolutely Concetta. He really condensed down in his book against intellectual property, but then going back and reading, especially missus was was very powerful because he take you late cases. He very sharply. But not as focused consensus. Oh, so his thoughts on this is very, very important and then. Yes, mainly MRs and Rothbart than how we can elevate scarce resources because I mean that is right. Human action, humans only act in realms of scarcity, only when there is a potential conflict where to locate resources to even have to act to allocate them. Right. If we would not have to allocate these non scarce resources, then we wouldn't have to act so human action as Luke, for MRs puts it in his marvelous work is based, or only exists in a realm of scarcity, and does his entire work is based on this fundamental axiom. And of course, he also clearly, of course in socialism or human action and more. More thoroughly or manic on me in state with Rothbart really work out that there are there's the peaceful way of private property. There's the aggressively of will. Slavery and theft and rape. And then there is utopia, which is communism which is simply impossible, because of Caissoti. I think there's a lot of different directions. We can go from here. I completely agree with the way that you are framing scarcity and allocating resources here, perhaps, it's a bit of a tangent. But I'm curious have you heard stuff and can sell talk about bitcoin, and talk about ownership of bitcoin, and in his view, we can't actually quote own a bitcoin. Have you heard this description from him? Yes. Absolutely. And he was on my show, already a couple times, and help me with in the early parts of this thesis. And I think what is pretty much in accordance to mindset, but of course, don't want to speak for him. But yes, he's absolutely right. You don't really well, it's really difficult to say it's very worth digging into. Yeah. I agree. It's interesting basically, the thing is that bitcoin uses cryptography, and this cryptography is based on mathematics, and ideas, and software code, and these are in the realm of non scarcity, which means that when I have no idea Ellis has an idea. She can speak it and manifestos into reality. And then Bob can listen to her idea. So Bob has clearly gained something right? The idea good that, that makes them more and more that brings them some benefit. But at the same time, Elyse did not give up anything she still has possession of that idea. And she did not lose it at that sacrifice it. So this sharing of knowledge is again mutual beneficial, which is the fundamental basis of non scarcity, we no longer need to allocate resources because they're not exclusive anyone can have them anyone who wants to read this stuff can go and read it. Anyone who wants to listen can listen and he can do. So without taking something away from someone else, which therefore, we do not need property rights. Therefore, I'm a hardcore communist in the realm of ideas, everyone can own everything because nobody owns ideas and Zo the same as with cryptography right the private key. What is that? It's a random number zero one one zero one zero zero one and so on. You don't own that you don't own numbers. I'm sorry, you cannot own number three that number is not only, it's not yours to exclusively use, and so the private keys, never in someone's ownership, but because it's a info. Unbelievably large possible number space. Well, we can do, if, if we can randomly pick and I mean, truly randomly, pick one of these numbers, the huge space, then because mine space is so awesome and cyberspace awesome. You can be pretty certain that this number has never been seen by anyone else. It has never been thought of by anyone else, and therefore you have a secret that is absolutely unguessed -able, and now it's your task too cold that secret and to hide it, and to not share it with anyone else. Because if you do then the secret is, of course, part of the public knowledge space again so occulting your secrets, keeping your private keys, hidden is vitally important, because then when you can prove knowledge of your secret, and you do that with a cryptographic signature, which, again, the signatures, just a math formula. Right. It's just information you don't own signatures. But what you prove. Signatures is that, you know, a secret and in the bitcoin protocol that is enough to transfer a UT ex all to some other means of ownership to some other means of property rights that is defined in the bitcoin script because one UT ex all is always locked up by one bitcoin script that defines how it can be spent. And this non scarce definition non-scary protocol of object signature, for example, this is a not in anyone's knowledge, anyone ownership, but it can be used to define ownership of UT in the sense. He'll improve knowledge of a secret can spend the coin that in it of itself is a form of non simulated ownership, which which is mind blowing Lee awesome. But just to sort of hit the bullseye, there are you saying that UT does are scarce and other aspects of the coin. Cryptography are not. Is there any scarcity or ownership involved in the bitcoin transaction? Or how, how do you rectify reconcile this sort of difficult concept? I think for many because obviously, no one uses this in everyday parlance. We all say that we own some bitcoin or have some bitcoin wholesome bitcoin, which part of bitcoin. The system is scarce and quote own -able. If any very very good question, and that is, it's fascinating really. Because you can go and get dot com slash bitcoins, left bitcoin, and you can see everything and you can know every single bit that runs on the bitcoin core softer and not just for, for the core client. But for all the wallets for all the miners for all this different pieces of software that we have the knowledge LeBron and you can know you can get it. It's not owned by anyone. It's not exclusively used by anyone. Anyone can use it. And therefore the protocol itself. The Nakamoto consensus rules, the code that is non scarce, and nobody owns it. And again, with private keys, for example, to keep Harris that you have they are not yours. They're just numbers. You don't numbers. Right. They, you might be the only one that knows them. But that is a big difference. The cult of secrets is something that is that, that might give you or the gives you exclusive use, but the exclusive use simulated in the sense that anyone at any time, could copy your secret and then use it as well. So although occulting can generate simulated scarcity for short time. It is up to you to defend that simulation by really keeping your private keys hidden by not posting them on Facebook. And then you don't on bitcoin the protocol, you don't own the private keys, but because we can assume that you keep your private keys. Hidden. That is the assumption of bitcoin makes that public private crew Dockery works. Then we can say that you can define on the public ledger on the blockchain that is, again, just information at Lieber opens anyone can copy. It non scares. There are there's a chain of digital signature, which represents a UT Exo and each UT, X can only be spent, or the chain of the signatures can only be advanced if and only if the committed script is computed as valid. And this commuted script can be, again, in non scarce protocol that is conscripted can be object signature for a single public key and signature that was produced by one individual. And does you commit with the one single public here? That only with knowledge of the single private key. Can you spend the big one so we could say that he will ever knows the private key has ownership of bitcoin, because he is the or of this UT X, because he is the only one that can use it the only one that can spend it at advance the chain of the signatures, but there are different non scares definitions off the property rights in the UT ex and we can really play with the non scarcity of the code to define the scarcity of the so I wanna come back to this, perhaps, when we talk about the use cases but I do think it's a very interesting way to look at it. We've had Consol as well on our show, it was show, forty-three listeners wanna go back and listen to that. I think he's very much perhaps ahead of his time when he looks at software and intellectual property and bitcoin is very likely going to prove out his thesis. It seems to me but it's very interesting. I don't know if you have any anything else. Say there. Oh, yes, he was so spot on. He really he really hit Saddam because he argues again, from fundamental axioms you cannot go deeper than scarcity. I would say at least I have not found anything that goes deeper on an locked logical argumentative scale, I mean, scarcity comes before human action, and MRs starts his analysis at human action. I tend to he doesn't really cover too much explicitly scarcity of itself, assumes that, right? And can sell really points out and because he has such a hard rock solid foundation like everything that he argues logically on. Top must be the truth. That is practically Laci that is that is the trivia, starred on solid ground that, you know, to be truthful for without a shadow of doubt and scarcity is truth and then build logically on top. So when he just says, yeah. Dude, he cannot have intellectual property because information is not exclusive. Therefore, we do not need the property rights too. Locate the scares resources because they are not scarce and done. And this argument is so rock-solid that it really does not matter too much at all would like, well it's, it's all at the argument is dare. He was absolutely. And bitcoin is a beautiful combination of all these different ideas that he has put forth to really prove him. Right. Because Consol is right. Excellent. Okay, so let's, let's move on. Then if we agree that, that UT a-x-i-o-s are scarce, and I believe everybody agrees that and in some way, you can have ownership or at least something that proves that you are the only one that has access to this information that you can move it. We can build off from there and do more abstract things. With more cooperation more communication more parties. And I believe that this is probably a main crush. Of your thesis as well is involving shared ownership the community having more business level, topics revolve around this basic concept of shared ownership and multi sick. So is there anything that we should cover next regarding multi sig or shared ownership ESO's, maybe to, to recap on the fundamental things of bitcoin script? They are. It's a programming language. Right. It's cold at softer non scares. Nobody owns it. But it can be used to communicate to other full nodes on the transfer of property rights right for this exalt and because everyone can verify this program in cold, mathematically. We can have a let's call it simulation where we all agree that something happened. I'd we all agree that this UT ex. Actually transferred because we have the valid signature and this relation can be good or bad. It can be bad simulation. And the sense of ripple for example, or the FIA coins. That's really bad simulation. Those scarcity the property rights can at anytime violated, but with bitcoin, and because of many other reasons this becomes extremely strong simulation in the sense that if you have the valid signature, the valid business gripped, then you can move the UT exalt. It's just that's it that really is it. And it has never happened that UT ex all that had valid witness did not get moved. And it also was not the case that UT IX was ever moved if the provider did not have the valid signature so it's rock-solid. It's a really strong simulation so that we could also say that it's just no longer relationship is how things work and, and that I think is, is just the cool basics, but then we can use different definitions, different code different. Software to define when to move these coins. And I mean, the basics would of course, be the single public single signature, but it could also be, for example, the single upkeep and single signature with time lock, right? To say anyone who has knowledge of the secret can spend this coin, but only in, let's say one hundred thousand blocks type, and this is again a it's not related. Right. Is then the case if this is in the locking script than you can not unlock this UT ex if before this one hundred thousand flock at time window, those so that in of itself, you know, we can define the property rights and enforce them throughout time, which is also in tastic. Explain to me, how property rights fit in I wanna go back again, because that's a word we probably didn't use in the Concetta definition, and that's probably important as well. How would you define a property right in bitcoin? The property ride is defined as exclusive ownership or usage of UT X. So only one way, where how do you takes can be used? And this is the case because there is always only one Lockinge, script locking up that UT Exo. And for example, if it is Alice's public key in the locking script, then only elyssa signature can move this. UT Exaud Bob's signature, or if AAC signature cannot move the UT IX, this means that all these other possible use cases, are excluded and only one use case Alyssa signature is actually possible and nonce possible in a non simulation way. And then further the we can have different definitions of this property right of this UT X, for example, then and lock time or more awesomely a move. Tyson nitrous grip where we have in the locking script three conditions or let's say the condition that they need to be two out of three of these public keys of Ella's Bob and Charlie. Three of them need to be a proven all of the secret with the signature and only when three of them have signed the transaction, and therefore, given their consent to moving this coin only then can the property rights being forced and the coin actually be spent two new locking script. Hey, everybody. Just wanted to moment to tell you about our product sponsor for the soda. Crypto traits. Smith, volatility, and foam. 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Crypto voices dot com slash trade. Smith offer. You'd be helping the show out cannot endorse the product highly enough. And also, check out fifty five where we interviewed founder of trade stops and Kripa trait Smith. Dr Richard Smith. This is question. I was saving for later. But I think I just wanna jump into it now. Because I mentioned to do so. But why don't we make a simple explanation? You in your thesis, describe a lot of use cases for hash time, locked transactions and multi Sieg and collaboration of this entire idea and why it will be valuable, but I am very keen, maybe in the back of your mind about how we could describe this property right being enforced because obviously, I think the crux of your paper or a big part of your paper is enlightening, or eliminating or educating people on how it can be enforced via the protocol, and via the code and via mathematics and tonight magin, perhaps some of our listeners are as well. You can get down to. Very humanistic level with some of these things. And if you know there's a buyer seller, a third independent party, perhaps, you can very quickly easily have disputes or collusion or other real world things. And then perhaps a jurisdictional arbitration system, may need to get involved. Or in other words, just a common court. That's a lot to think about. I don't want to go into that, just yet. But that's something I'm thinking about in describing, how we define this property. Right. So maybe before we get to that. What's your favorite example, our favorite use case for these types of transactions on lightning? So the thing with verification of these property rights and enforcement of them that really goes back to the network of individual peers of bitcoin full note that have a complete copy of all the transactions that are non scares, and that verify them according to the property, right? Rulebook so to say. The, the book of law, which is the neck emotive consensus. And when according to this definition of the law, so to say the man made code law. That UT X or if that signature is valid to that script to the locking script only then can the coin moved. And this is one of these many rules in the Komodo consensus, and assuming that you're full node has a correct version of these consensus rules it can, and of course, the correct data public data from, from the time chain, then it can verify absolutely conclusively and authoritarian early. If this spend is valid if the script valid if the coin is yet to be spent it is spent all these things can be verified by every individual and not just verified but enforced. So if for example, appear sends a transaction with a wrong signature script that does not compute valid to the locking script, then you're full note, says no drops transaction and blocks address of the pier. And this is good. Because he just tried. To steal something that was not his to take. Right. He tried to take he would try to take to use a UT all in a way that was not defined in the property rights of the locking script. So here you are the judge the jury and the executioner for your individual full note. Now, of course bitcoin is made up of a bunch of individuals in network of peers. And this means that we need to have consensus on when which rules to enforce and here, the neca, modal rules are again, a consensus, based system, which we all adhere to because we've on terra truce too, because it is marginally superior for us to do so. And in, in that sense than the property rights and bitcoin are enforced by you and by your appears, and that is something that, that flips entire system of judgment off scarcity on its head because it creates the true nonce relation because you're yourself and force it. So let's get specific there max. Give us a use case of a couple of peers in the coin network, that might want to use such multi transaction. Well, of course, we all want to haul the Bitcoin's really, really securely and maybe want to huddle bitcoin in a way that several peers together can have access to them, or at least have a part say, in what to do, and would be maybe, for example, the family situation, right. You have let's say father and mother and one child, and they all have some of the spending money that, that they want to four just regular like buying groceries and all this stuff. But it's such a substantial sum that they don't necessarily want to have risk of just one private key controlling this, this. Because, for example, if someone kidnaps the child, for example, then he would have to keep, or if someone just if one of, let's say the father goes out to the club for black blackjack and hug. And then the wife would not really grieve that then she wants to have some say, in how to spend their sets and here, for example, a tool out of three multisector seems to be fantastic because this means that we have three individual public private keys of both the father, the mother and the child, and they have nonsense. Lated shared ownership of these bitcoin in the sense that they can spend, the only if they have to valid signatures to that or to that transaction and the valid signatures could be, for example, the mother and the father I, if they want to buy as a price gift for their child, or they just want to buy something that is not of the child's concern, then they can do so without his permission because they are two already or for example, if the father and son, a one to go to I dunno skiing in the mountains, and then they can pay for their trip together with two signature. Shire's of them individually, or then if the mother and the son would like to buy a gift for the father, then they can do so to get him. I dunno new car, for example. And the cool thing is that one individual at a time cannot take or use the money. So no individual alone has the property rights in this UTM so, but only in the collaboration of at least two individuals. Can they produce valid signatures script that gives them the right to move this bitcoin, which means only two out of thre