12 Episode results for "Billy James"

Jameis returns, ND v. Michigan, Roughing rule saga

Speak For Yourself with Cowherd & Whitlock

45:14 min | 2 years ago

Jameis returns, ND v. Michigan, Roughing rule saga

"All right. Well, it was bigger yourself. I'm Jason Whitlock. That's Marcellus Wiley, that dude coming up. I'll tell you why have no problem with Jason Witten bringing politics into the broadcast booth. And I've got another installment of debt dues dues, we start every show with a Whitlam's which got today. I got a wolf Marcel. I don't think you've ever seen my wolf our. You're about to see it today. I'm the wolf of Winston street. I'm caving up for Tampa Bay quarterback Jameis Winston who's three-game suspension into this week and is now in a QB controversy with journeyman Ryan Fitzpatrick I wanna tell Tampa ahead coach, Dirk, cutter what to do by channeling. My inner Leonardo to Capri. Oh, and one of my favorite movie scenes of all time from the wolf of Wall Street, are you see that football there? I'm gonna let you in on a little secret about those footballs. They're not gonna throw themselves accurately without the right quarterback. They're worthless. They need a highly trained quarterback eighty callous. No. You something about who tell you a little something. There's no nobility and losing. I've been a winner and a loser, and I choose winning every freaking. Because at least there's a winter I saw on game day. I doubt in a custom-made, Tom Ford suit where Jeb gyp ring. They won watching this thing. I'm superficial, low character. You don't get a job coaching peewee football because that's where frigging the long. This is the NFL. And before you depart my locker room full of winners, I want you Dirk cutter. Take a look around your locker room gone. Take a good look because if you mess up this decision sometime in the not so distant future, you're gonna walk into a football stadium with a coordinators playbook and an NFL head coach is going to walk in with you with a brand new quarterback. Porsche, who looked plays like Jameis Winston, big lap shoeless cannon foreign on I. And who are you going to be standing next to Ryan Fitzpatrick disgusting. I league what a hundred days, a razor stubble chin do you're going to be standing next to. So you listen to me and you listen. Well, are you tired of hearing about Jiu breeze and the New Orleans Saints entire good pick up the phone and call James Winston, you tired of seeing Cam Newton's superman celebration. The full and call James Winston to Matt Ryan and the falcons, the buccaneers, a worthless Luas. Pick up the phone call James Wisden. I want you to deal with your loss on Monday night football, but tended to Jayme as. Most talented quarterbacks, the guy won the Heisman Trophy national championship, and Florida's date, the guy who told the box, it's okay to fire lovey Smith and make you the head coach. When it happens Jamie's I need you to be ferocious. You'll be relentless. Quarterback. Back in the bed. The wolf loose today Marcel the wolf out. All that talk, but I'm with marshawn Lynch. I'm about that action boss. You got me hype, you smoke it. Well, you got the fire book, riot fix, Patrick, has this team this team, and you know how you got him. He didn't have to go out there and say, I. I. To go out there and make them eat ws. He went out there and gave him ws and the last twelve games. They've had a split sample size, six games for James suspension in all injuries. And six gave Ryan Fitzpatrick and sub duty where I Fitzpatrick has won four DOE six. James has won one of those six with the same team. What to say personnel. And it's interesting when you talk about who has this team, I tell you that Ryan Patrick is this team and it's not just because the Sean Jackson after week one came out and said, hey, I'm going with fits at the week. Two I'm going with fits is because he speaking for the entire team. The mass is I've been in that same position rookie season that same ju- breeze and he was our quarterback. Doug Flutie was on a roster and I came onto media and you're never supposed to do this, pick a teammate, and I came out and said, it should be Doug Flutie seven, seven, seven, and I wasn't speaking for just me. I was speaking for all the guy. Guys in there who said, Marcellus, you're above reproach, they won't cut you. They love you speak for us. We want Doug Flutie not drew Brees. So Sean Jackson comes out and says, he wants Fitzpatrick. He speaking for fifty. One other dudes in their locker room as well. So I gotta respect what he did and what is happening in Tampa. It's fist Patrick's team. Listen, I what dishonor Jackson said to stay with the hot hand and the hand cooled off on Monday night folks in the first half it cooled off for the game. It was winning time and he had a final dry that could have won the game, and he blew it. He didn't complete any of those passes, but I wanna stay with to Capri. Oh, Jordan, Belfour of from walls. You killed it. You know, I just wanna stay there because you saw the movie Korea? Yeah. Awesome. Movie penny stocks where Jordan Belfour got his start, and that's what James Winston is. He's a penny stock. He's a blue chip stock that has been devalued, depending. I get that his stock is low. He's screwed up. I get all those testicle deals about who's won and who hasn't when they've been the starting quarterback, I get it. But at the end of the day, if you look deep at James Winston, he's Heisman Trophy winner. For reason, he's a national champion in college for a reason he's the number one overall pick in the draft for a reason. There's a reason why does not just as intellect, why Ryan Fitzpatrick played at an Ivy league school. There's a reason why he's a journeyman quarterback. Again, he's he's a great fire extinguisher open in when there's an emergency break the glass, bring him out, but eventually affiars thing, which is not the fire department and it runs out and you gotta bring a real fireman and to do and Jameis Winston, even though he hasn't shown it fully yet he is a real firemen and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers to me. I look at all the talent around him. They have to max out this. A year and the only way to max out with James Winston because at some point, Ryan Fitzpatrick is going to be that dude, you saw on the first half against Pittsburgh and he's going to be that dude, you saw at the end of the game against Pittsburgh. He's not championship caliber. Okay. You got one more Ivy league shot to doing this show, which keeps you diving leagues in NFL that ain't gonna happen. It's funny, you call him the fire man, and that means he's gonna put out the fire and he is put out the fire, which is the hot start by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers to one, which I don't think they would have been to one with this level confidence if James was starting. But let's talk about confidence because you say, hey, former number one overall pick, hey, you're Heisman Trophy winner, and you're the franchise quarterback. You should be confident listened to Jameis Winston this to this sound of him, and it sounds like a guy who's already defeat it in this moment. This assignment like we're having a lot of success and I want to continue and I knew it will. I'm here to systematised well, possibly. Can you know not my passion for this team. I love this team goes beyond where I'm out there doing the football team or not. From score to assist quick. Facilitator because you know why I gotta standard support Dr cutter record and say the quarterbacks, no, who's the starter? And if you're going to name the starter before you see a practice week from James who's been out for three weeks, you know who that guy is is Fitzpatrick. You don't name James to start until you see him, at least in practice. And the reason he is sounding defeated in that moment because he knows he's not the start. I didn't hear lack of confidence. I heard some humility, much-needed humility, and a guy in the right mentality, and a guy who's following orders in my belief in the look, they're cutter can make the wrong decision to stick with Fitzpatrick. I hope and pray. He does it. But if I'm James Winston, I'm not tipping the cards one way or the other. And so to me, he's being very coach -able here, not showing his card standing at humble spirit and in terms of what you've seen and again, I know this was a month ago. James Winston was the best quarterback in the NFL during the preseason. Oh, we count now he was okay. So to me, he was right on schedule for what I saw at the end of the season last year, agai plan at a very high level agai very competitive agai that was blossoming into why they drafted him number one overall. And so I just, I think James is handled every sponsor perfectly. I think he's hiding his cars because Dirk cutters trying to hide his cards. But I think if Dirk cutter goals, listen, there's no downside benching Ryan Fitzpatrick now. 'cause you can bring him back in. He's at anytime James Winston, you have to put him out there and really go forward in terms of this is the year for dirt cutter in the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. They're in the most competitive best quarterback division in football. You can't take on drew Brees Matt, Ryan, Cam Newton, particularly this Cam Newton with Ryan Fitzpatrick. You have to send your best and brightest out there and is James wins, look, I mean, James harden his cars in part because it's cars better than Ryan Fitzpatrick's Ryan saying, I play this game face up. Let's go, you would see my car. It's here we go. What are those cards? He's NFL record for I three consecutive four hundred yard passing games. He's a second all time. NFL history to first regains passing yards. And he's like, I'm doing historical stuff. I'm not doing franchise quarterback stuff. I'm doing all time franchise quarterback stuff in terms of numbers performance. And when I had that locker room would've spokesman Sean Jackson coming up to support me. I've heard one player yet say, is this James, his job either one player yet. And that speaks volumes because I've been there before and when people don't step up for you is because they're not supporting, you lost my voice. I can't. Belford took me out of stick around later in the show we'll give you are proven ratings for James Winston. Here's where they were before. The season started ourselves had him as wolf layer. I had him on the scout team, say where he ends up. We'll get right back to the show, but I, I wanted to tell our listeners about hellofresh hellofresh a meal kit delivery service shops plans and delivers step by step recipes in pre measured ingredients. So you can just cook eat and enjoy. Why do I recommend hellofresh? There's something for everyone. Three plans to choose from classic veggie and family. Each boxes made up a fresh responsibly obtained ingredients from carefully selected farms and high rated trusted sources, make family dinners. Fuss-free with hellofresh picky eater, kid tested and approved family plan recipes rediscover the excitement of cooking. Look forward to your hellofresh delivery, knowing dinner, just got that much easier. Hellofresh, believe cooking should be simple and convenient, not a chore. All the ingredients come pre measured in handy labeled meal kits. So you know which ingredients go with with. Each recipe won't spend time all night in the kitchen because recipes only take around thirty minutes. There are many benefits of subscribing so you can keep enjoying hellofresh week after week. It's been less time meal plan in grocery shopping each week and get that time back to more what you love get delicious. Billy meals delivered right to your door every week for less than ten dollars per serving and free shipping or total of sixty dollars off as twenty dollars off your first meet boxes, visit hellofresh dot com. Slash speak sixty and inner speak sixties again for a total of sixty dollars off. That's twenty dollars off your first three boxes. Visit hellofresh dot com. Slash speak sixty and inner speak sixty as the promo code. So visit hellofresh today. Back. I'm Jason with lot. He's Marcellus Wiley. We'll get into the NFL's roughing the passer controversy in a minute, but first you all know Marcella ze DAT do now. He's going to show us the best place from big guys around football. It's time for debt dudes dudes ourselves, which got got the best three plays out there from the big news of front does is in the trenches, they don't get enough love and attention. So we give love that dues dues. This start off what Arthur that dues do. Cow Williams, Buffalo Bills, go bills mafia. See Cal Williams off. The ball quickly gets to Kirk. Cousins runs right through Vikings lime and Mike Rimmer for the sack. Well, let's see right here. Look at the levers you see rumors you think that's a good bench, press five hundred Pounder, right? Got his arms extended everything, but because he's overextended that five hundred pounds quickly drops down to no wait at all. And look at car Williams. He realizes that in the moment slapsti- Rhys off them. Get skinny in the hole and gets to Kirk cousins right there. The Carlson, the limo for that. That was easy. Pickets number two debt dues dues go to Miami with the dolphins, Vincent Taylor. This is tailor made right here against the raiders. You see them go. Men gave Jackson guests the sec, but let's see how you get some first of all you gotta sit them down and when you sit them down Pete nice, gentleman, cinnamon the chair as you sit them into look at that anchor foot. Oh my God, Jason Whitlock at boss state right there. Next thing, you know when you got them sitting down and he's overextended. What are you hit them with the grab rip Sipple collegiate move and look at that angle right there. The protracted has to come out because that's where you get your explosion. And that's how you turn the corner with those angles, get to their car. Another sec rape relief, surprise it into a flag for hitting the quarterback in the NFL talking to you right now. And the number one debt do dude of the week is met I, this is Greek God of bull rush right here. You can see him gets. Rogers who had a more you watch this, he tries to Reggie White hump move. Pulls it off somewhat, but look at that angle hunter degrees and now Brian Balogh. Once again, second time he's been on that news. The victim gets caught on skates, and once you're skates is time to break out the Billy James Tana moonwalk brother because he's going to have you going back because he now he's in your chest and you are going backwards. Look at that lack of power in that position tying to send them to the scar because he's toast, get him about of here, please. Thank you very much. He's going don't how're position right back to air Rogers. A-rod like my knee can get him off of me please. And once again, a sack on a play great playboy met Greek God a bull run once again. No offense of Lyman highlighted, come on, man. You got to. I'm trying to talk to production gonna get this. That was awesome ourselves from some big dues to some big stories. Let's start the NFL where reportedly several members of the competition committee are uncomfortable with the show. Sharp increase in roughing. The passer calls this season which have more than doubled from this point last year and the members of the committee aren't the only ones unhappy with the rule with people around the league, expressing frustration, including Cowboys owner, Jerry Jones, the way actually our future is a real serious emphasis on of youth football, amateur football, reflected passcode level, and I see a collegiate game that certainly has a lot of finesse in it, but is a great game and makes these kinds of adjustments we're talking about. But when it comes to pro football to use a boxing term, that's when you put the six ounce club. So you don't rob fight with those ten outs are you don't fight with those years. Everybody's being really paid to go out and incur those type situations that have more risk at all right myself. I keep it real with you. Everybody I know loves you on the show. They think my mother loves you more than she loves me, but they all have one question. What the hell is Marcel is talking about defending this rougher the passing stuff. Right. Please explain yourself. How in the hell are you good with all these roughing, everybody else ancient, but you. I'll love it. I'm protecting investment. I, this is not an allegation. Is Jerry Jones. Try to go with the boxing analogy to a boxing match because in the box of match, you're paying import to see him get knocked out whether you love him or whether you hate him, whoever that boxer may be. That's part of that game, but we're not paying to see them not to starting quarterback. I'll give you a case, appoint. Here's an example this week. I'm going to the chargers forty Niners game. Let's just say that I was bringing a few on three tickets. Go ahead. Okay, paying. But my friends were also going on those same free tickets and guess what they said with free tickets in hand. Oh man, Jimmy, geez, not playing. We still going to the game. That's my point. So you gotta protect that guy in the situation. You're making a mistake to everyone's making hope your mom and not making. 'cause I love your mama. 'cause. But don't conflict the fact that they have a new rule and that they're getting this new rule enforce correctly. Every single time, it's a judgment rule, and every judgment rule weather's PR, whether it's holding when there's a point of emphasis. First thing we do is over correct. We do it too much. We call it too often, and then we get to a place of common sense because we have a body of work, and we realize this is where we want to set a win, be patient everyone. This rule is to protect the stars of the game, this ruse to protect integrity of the game and terms of safety and promoting that at the lower levels to the NFL level. I am in full support, but I'm also patient which are not. It's not about this is intolerable in unacceptable. As a fan I'm achieves fan. You mentioned Jimmy g. and when Jimmy g. chose not to dip out of bounds and decided to be an idiot and take on a defensive player. You know what the chief's fan. He did. Good job. Jimmy. G. see you later nine on goodbye. It out of the game game over. I was happy about it. I'm crying no tears for San Francisco because Jimmy g. was in idiot. I wanna see quarterbacks play football and in football, it's a contact sport they need to be contacted. That's surviving. That context is I'm a huge Phil Simms fainting and he's not in the hall of fame, but I love the way he played because he was standing the pocket and take that hit to deliver the football, Tom Brady. That's what made him so great early in his career. There's a part they're taking that out of the game is like anybody. Now compla- quarterback. Anybody can be the tough guy, and I just don't like it just it's not football. Okay. So Jason Wheelock was in on the Matt Cassel Levin win season that didn't go to the playoffs was like, oh, yeah, top-rated down. I'm fine with that. You to be chiefs fan. I could be charges fan, but we. You have to voltron and be NFL fan. And if you're the Commissioner or your own executive committee, or you're on the rules committee, you have to look out for the greater good, which is all teams, which is Jimmy g. showing up in LA and he's own. The silence is not good for the game, and you have to respect even that protecting investment quarterbacks. They don't even practice again, but their blood is no redder than mine. Andy defensive players, what they get more protection and air by else is just to an extreme, nobody agrees what you must. Practice. We're originally for reason as of now. Nothing has been done about the rule, which was obviously obvious in Monday night's Steelers, Buchan ears game when the flags were flying to the tune of four. Roughing. The passer calls during the broadcast the Monday night crew couldn't ignore the issue and Jason Witten actually steered the conversation in a political direction. Just gone too far with that rule, you know, and I felt that I knew they wanna make it about the health and safety and protect these quarterbacks. It just seems like we just went a little bit to wingham that you know with our trying to protect it. Because as we said, only players frustrated, but the coaches, they don't know how to coach this. That's been have challenge with this war. Ourselves, you. You have a problem with Jason, bringing politics into this discussion. I do look one one out. Don't care if you're on the left. I don't care if you're on the right. Are you in the middle of your living room in the middle of that television screen watching football? Yes. And if you are, you don't want this all of a sudden being part of the conversation when you're watching just some good football. So just a blanket statement, I wanna go there, but to me is different. When you look at Jason Witten and his misstep, I don't even think that Jason Witten truthfully went all the way in terms of left wing men. Exactly what it sounded like. I think this was just a miscue blown out of proportion by guy who's on the big platform who may have misspoke. So I don't wanna put words in his mouth, but the left wing part if he did want to test too little too much for me when I'm watching football didn't bother me because I heard his comments and hear his comments as him saying, look, there's a war on football, and we're trying to change. Change the game of football, and I believe Jason's trying to say in an unhealthy way and football. And again, I think what Jason was saying, football's not a safe space this for the people that want to be safe. Don't step on the football field and less. Don't try to please the people that think football's too violent. It's tactically masculine, let's make it less masculine. Let's make it so everybody can play, and it's just not a gang for everybody. It's for people that are little bit touched and a little bit crazy. And just. This is where they work out their physical frustrations. And so I don't have a problem with at all because I hear his comments as ringing true to me, there is an whether we like it or not. The left liberals don't like football as much as conservative people are just are just even traditional sports fans, and there's an attack on football, and I think it bothers Jason Witten and he snuck it in there is the Monday night booth. The place to do it, maybe not a, maybe getting. There's a cop fares there. He's already written a terrific column about social media and things like that. If he wants to touch on it, right it in a column, so you can be heard in context during the middle of game. That's probably a little bit too much, but I don't have a real problem with. I got a problem with it. One. Lazlo generalization just say, left Worrell football. Let me use this platform ESPN with Jimmy Petar already went on record ahead of PSA. Politics is out of our company and then we can see him saying moo making moves like no national anthem, broadcast, okay, Djamil hill and her by out you can read into that what you want, but they distance themselves in politics. Then on the biggest stage on their biggest product, you have Jason Witten taking a political stance that needs to be addressed. And I'm sure it is behind closed doors. This is not a world football. This is this Jason Witten, a rookie announcer having a war on words and not knowing exactly what to say and I Jay, but we're going to get there is a warm football Marcel. Okay. There could be a warm football. This was not. This is Jason Witten. A rookie announcer who Lenora but but I, yes, yes, the rookie out to making a mistake. They can give them a pass on that. But I think where he's. Coming from is this whole movement to make football safe is just silly. And again, I get we've gone too far with it. I don't want to say. You can still play on two people still don't get knocked out as safe as you make about this. Imagine that you know PM version of football where it is what you say is the safest place possible. It's still hasn't as health. Jerry Jones said. I thought expertly football is about the six ounce gloves. Don't put boxers. I don't see Mike Tyson fighting in ten, twelve ounce gloves. I wanna seem in six gloves, knocking somebody out. That's what I pay my money to go. See. And when I go see football, I wanna see, quarterbacks get touched and Jason witnesses, right? We've got this a stereo about concussions and no other sports kids analyzed like football, and so we've gone, we've gone to the extreme of, let's we gotta put. We gotta lay quarterbacks down the great mean about Landa, quarterback, and kissing him on the four here we've just gone to. That's the next step. You don't kiss him on the forehead. It doesn't count. Support for speak for yourself, comes from our friends at rocket mortgage by Quicken Loans America's premier home purchase Lindor. Let's talk about buying a home. It can be one of the most important purchases you'll ever make, but today's lecture, luxury interest rates can leave you with unexpected higher payments, which can turn a great experience into an anxious one. That's why Quicken Loans created their exclusive power buying process. Here's how it works. They check your income assets and credit to give you a verified approval. This gives you the strength of a cash buyer making your offer more attractive to sellers. Once verified you qualify for their exclusive rate shield approval them walking your interest rate for up to ninety days while you shop for a new home. Then once you found the one, if rates have gone up, your rate stays the same foot of rates have gone down. You get to keep that Lou lower rate either way. You win is the kind of thinking you'd expect from America's largest mortgage Linden to get started. Go to rocketmortgage dot com. Slash speak rape shield approval, only valid on certain thirty year purchase transaction. Additional conditions or exclusions may apply based on Quicken Loans, data in comparison to public data records equal housing lender licensed in all fifty states in m l s consumer access dot org. Number thirty thirty. Welcome back. More cells are joined now by FOX college football analyst. Joel Klatt smartest man in college football moved to Clinton joke. Marseils luckily aided. Let's to college football where dabbles weenies attempt to juggle. Two quarterbacks has an exactly worked out after Daboh demoted Kelly Bryant and named true freshman, Trevor Lawrence, the starter Brian announced that he would transfer saying the move was a slap in the face. Meanwhile at Alabama, Jalen hurts decided to stay with the crimson tide. Despite his diminished role, Joe. Who made that better decision here? Bryant or hurt? I, it's really tough to compare them because there are such different situations you might think, oh, like what in the world do you mean because it looks exactly the same? No, it's so different. And the reason is is because Kelly Brian's in his final year of eligibility. If he plays one more snap in the fifth game, his football life ends at the end of this season. And so I got a credit debo Sweeney a lot for making this decision now and affording Kelly Bryant, the opportunity to go and transfer and to save any long gate, his football life because now he can graduate, he'll transfer without penalty. And he still has. One year of eligibility, whereas Jalen her test two years of eligibility. So even if he is used the rest of the season and uses one of those years of eligibility up, he graduates in December and if he wants to, he can still transfer an have a year somewhere else to play. So that's why I thought the sense of urgency was there for Kelly Bryant and for Daboh Sweeney, and I thought they all handled it well, outside of the fact that he said it was a slap in the face. I just don't agree with that. I don't think he did anything to lose the position. It was more Trevor Lawrence doing things in particular from Dr officiency standpoint to gain the position. But this is the right thing to do. I think for Kelly sake for Davos everybody's, I think everyone handled this the right way. Hold on Joel, who made the better decision who made a better decision? I would say Jalen hurts is interesting because Kelly Bryant and his decision was a conventional decision, hey, to urgency, is there if I play one more snap, I lose my eligibility basically being on the bench as a sub. So what do I do? Because I can be. NFL prospect, maybe even at the same position, I will go somewhere else and put another body of work together. Respect that that's conventional though what's nuanced is Jalen hurts did when his father comes out and says he will be the biggest college free agent if he's not a starter, and then he's realized that he's not a starter and he says, you know, what would all the criticism that came my way because I don't look like the traditional NFL quarterback prospect. Let me hide behind two things. One is my resume, twenty six and two as a starter to national championship games. One championship and I'm the Alabama. He knows that if he steps out and go somewhere else and put together another body work, they won't be successful. It won't be as good, and then all the criticism avalanche on him as a prospect, high behind, Alabama, say, if you guys draft me or just gimme in the camp unleash me. And to me, that's the better decision. I'm gonna go with Jalen hurts for a different reason. And I think both guys may. Great decisions. I love Jalen hearses decision because I see it as self awareness in terms of, I'm not a pro prospect. I don't need to go one out and get on the field someplace else immediately. I love this play. I think this kid will be beloved in Alabama and the university of Alabama and the people our Bama he can do whatever he, he can write his own to be governor Monday. He could be he get right in line and potentially ten years from now be the head coach at Alabama or somewhere in college. Football, I love this decision for a kid who's not an NFL quarterback. This is a great place sticking with a great university, a great program that I think will take care of him moving forward for Kelly Bryant. I think he made the right decision. I'm gonna give Jalen little bit more credit the right decision. Kelly blinds still sees himself as a pro prospect, and he wants to go get on the field and protect his pro future. As soon as pot, he can't accept Trevor Lawrence beating him out. He's. Gotta go play somewhere soon as possible and continue his pursuit of being an NFL how you support Jalen hurts and this decision. But when we sit on the pro level with Nick foles to me, they're the same thing. He pulled a Nick foles. You criticize it kill amateur versus okay, but he's least Nick foles has money in the Bank while remained taking away your money and your. Pretend I do think Jalen is having his cake and eating it too, and there's nothing wrong with that. He can be a part of a championship team this year. Still graduate still transfers still get a year of eligibility again, very different situations. So the story is not over so I don't want to necessarily praise Jalen hurts for staying. He might not stay. I mean, that's he's this year and helps them win a national championship. Joel, his start in Alabama just contains derive. I don't think there's a bad decision for him. I really don't this transition to Michigan and Notre Dame in talk about after week. One. A lot of people said Michigan season was over seven point loss to Notre Dame. But right now looking at the two teams, the question for you Joe's. Who's the better team is Michigan or is another day? Well, before last week after I would've said it was Michigan because what they had put together post the Notre Dame game was much more impressive than what Notre Dame was doing. Intil Brian Kelly showed some big guts, replace the starting quarterback and win with Ian book. So now Ian book comes into Notre Dame. They throw fifty burger out there against Wake Forest fifty, three points. They hadn't scored over twenty four and the previous three games. So now it's a little bit more of a tossup. I'm gonna lean Michigan even though they lost the game for two really important reasons. I think they're better at quarterback than Notre Dame is, and they're better on the defensive side and that will prove it self out over the course of time. Remember now they didn't have shape Patterson eligible. If you will for a long period of time before that game. I think they got caught didn't play their best defensively gave up a couple of big touchdowns in the first quarter. I still think Michigan is the better team of the to know. That sounds crazy, but they are Joel, I'm about to demonstrates you. I am via thorny on college football and have been for twenty. Plus years. This is because I'm willing to do this. Jim Harbaugh is starting to earn my respect. All right. This guy, this team is starting to play with that edge yet. I've been wanting to see from day one. I love the way Michigan's plan. I, it's blows my month ago. I would have thought an Notre Dame. This quarterback moves tremendous your. I thought they were gonna get beat by wake force that they kept playing the way they work. And so not Dame looks really good, but I think Michigan looks better. They're playing with a physicality. They've got their running game going. Obviously their quarterback is much better. This is the Jim Harbaugh I've been waiting to see, I wanna see take out Michigan state, and then I think that Michigan Ohio state game should be damn near college, Super Bowl. I think there's there's just a handful of teams that can honestly say they control their own destiny towards the playoff in their own hands. I think Michigan still one of those teams, they've got enough of those resume builders on their schedule left, like Wisconsin, Penn State. Michigan state Ohio State if they were to take care of business and the way that they're playing they might they would find themselves in the playoff? Yeah. So this is not where he won the shape Patterson, as you said, you got better every week every week gotten better. It was a conservative game plan week one. You look at Michigan and they call it. Battle. Rhythm is interesting how they liked to build on the success of every single week. They didn't see that last year. They didn't have that complexion. Last year, that physicality, you talk about you gotta go back to twenty sixteen when Harbaugh saw that with this team, he says, he sees it now, but they need to tougher opponents, which are coming. And then all the sudden that confidence were brew to the top. But right now they're approaching planet optimal level. I look there to edge rushers and Devin Bush. And then when I look across at Ohio State and they got the problem with Bosa that makes a huge difference. If he comes back will really be able to play at that super high level, love the way Michigan's plan. Hope I don't have to change course anymore. I'm taking this all in Michigan love the way our falls. This is what I'm expecting from day one. All right. Thank you. Joe. Bet. We're joined now by a couple of Steelers, legends Rod, Woodson, and James Harrison. Let's move to the Steelers who got their first win of the year Monday night after tumultuous first couple of weeks. It's all some bad play on the field and a lot of noise off it. But after the game, big bend said the teams, biggest issue was actually people on the outside the locker room blowing all the drama out of proportion. Oh. Expecting big. Video below it out of proportion. I'm going gonna blow it out of proportion and say, look, they got lucky Monday night. Ryan Fitzpatrick had a chance to put them to sleep after being up thirty two teen. He had a final drive, could cost them their game. They would've blown a twenty point lead, and we would still be sitting here talking about Mike Tomlin and all the chaos. I'm not sure the steel drought, a hot water yet I disagree with that. That's a collegiate mindset. When you go out there and say, oh, how much did we win by? But in the pros, we don't add up the scores just a wins, you know? So if I'm on that plane ride back home or we smiling or is coach while and coaching while because he's happy, we wound, that's all that matters. We'll get back and regroup. Every team has shoes. You know, in for some reason this year, the Pittsburgh Steelers has more issue's specially guys outside of football, the penalties on the field. But remember when Seattle won the Super Bowl, they were the most penalized team football and own thing that disappoints me right now for the football team, and it's not about all the issues. It's their defensive play. This often to score points. I'm, this is not the this is not the Pittsburgh Steeler defense that I know because they're giving way too many big plays. I'm eating you look at it. You got over twenty big plays in passing fifteen of those in the air in three games. That's a lot of that's five game that way. If you wanna win, that's way too many. So the passers has to get there. But the back end secondary has to become, they have to be better. They got a solidify everything that pre snap communication has to increase. I don't see anybody talking to other hand signals guys are wide open fields because guys are playing together. So if they get that together. The office is going to be okay. Yeah, I have. Like I said, I haven't lost any confidence in specially that they've taken the step in the right direction. A win is a win. Don't matter how you do it as long as they got big being. They got AB in office line is doing what they need to do. I have confidence in the defense will eventually come around. I feel like they'll get that together to back in to get in contact with the front end. And then they need to get the pressure at the times when they're covering. So they could get the Saxon when they're not getting the pressure, they need to be in better coverage. At those times, everything needs to flow one and one. So I have still, I still have confidence that they'll make it a long way into the playoff. Everybody's ignoring in praising the offense. They didn't score after halftime. They didn't. It was thirty two. It has do more. So at the end and extend the play, Ben would been, does he stinted the play for a first down? Yeah, got still plays when they had to. They want off at the side of it. They thing about you say, base court thirty points in a half. That's a lot. First of all thirty points in the hole. Game is a lot of points. If you can't win a football game, when you're often scores thirty points, even though they gave up seventeen long was a pick six that the office didn't score dolphin scored that was defense chip in. No, I get the offense. Scored twenty four points. None after halftime. I'm not sure if the problems of Ryan the problems are fixed trae what is the problem? Because to. Two point thirty points at the half, and then you're almost in position to lose that game. If the Sean Jackson's punt returns, not callback, whoa. What's that game look like a Cleveland week one week one. They were up twenty one seven. They Cleveland climb back today game end up with a tie. What is that about this teams? Whether it's their mental makeup or their plan x.. Finishing not finish. Right. Ain't right. It comes down to to finish, and I don't know if it's the players themselves just having lax and getting up by so many points. And you know thinking that it's going to flow through the same way in the second half that ship question because the leaders of the teeth say, hey, man is four quarters. This isn't a young team. Yeah, but it is led. It is led by the players and the players on the sideline half to come together, especially on the defense. I and I keep saying I keep going back to defense because offensively they're scoring points even though they didn't score in a second hand on the Tampa Bay game. I get that defensively. They have to come together because if they come together, they can go a long way because it's often score any defense in the National Football League. They got playmakers across the board. I'm gonna put you on the spot you Steve guys. Look, the knock on Tomlin is that he'd coaches immaturity, and what would describe a team? The can't finish is immature and I pay and this is a veteran team. This isn't a bunch of young guys been AB. Judas been around a little bit now to the guys on a defensive side. He's still young, but this is to me, this team should be more mature than what I see on the field with all the penalties and not closing out. Well, that's something that, yeah, I would. I would lean towards, you know, maybe it's something that he needs to be more assertive with as far as how he handles those situations when they happen and how he deals with the discipline of it. But when it comes down to it, you know, sometimes you're going to have laws, you know. And right now the beginning of the year, these guys really haven't. They got three games. They played four preseason. Games. I think the whole time they might play what two quarters oughta gather three-quarters oughta gather. So they're really starting to free season and trying to get into the groove exactly what's going on. They gotta get a community communication to get. You know, they got new faces in there. Got new people. They got written. All right today we're talking James Winston who sees it as going about as badly as it can getting suspended in having his backup Ryan for pet. Patrick completely outshine anything. He's done the last couple years. My rating for James is way down down seventeen points. In fact, down to a thirty six. He is officially my first dumpster fire. James Safai performance drop to Levin points here availability is the most important ability. He hasn't been vailable for three weeks. He's down to a six, and then I got him down five and character all the way down to four job performance. The same, Jason Whitlock tell me how spectacular he looked into preseason don't count. Why did you use in earlier blocks in it d- accounts about what is going to have. Okay. I thought you said he was playing well enough to be a starter. He over the historical numbers of Ryan Fitzpatrick six job performance interesting, and a character. Four. I mean, I mean four. How many obligations does it need to be different convictions? Which is different than this inmate level, like four, like how did you get any lower than four eight? Go check the resume and all the, you know, I got you. Got you. Got it. You got scout team. I don't get it. He ain't a dumpster fire who is well, first of all, he's wearing his patches backup that is cost team. So he's to be xactly where he is fifty two. He's down nine look job performance. I give them a thirteen. He's down job performance. Don't forget. Now saleability Marcel. I get that. But you know what? James Winston came to a horrible team, horrible franchise. They were two and fourteen. That's why that number one overall pick, he gets there. One eighteen games laws twenty-seven, but still trying to climb a mountain. Again, you have his character, Tim Marcel got his character, Tim, because how accusations is different look crab legs. I'm not counting you count that, but if I get free stuff at school and then one day I show up and y'all didn't tell me it's not free anymore. That is you problem. That is not only I'm always going to the character still flaw because Uber incident, situations like that. I give you. Some of that authenticity is was funny though the end up the ws was he did that. I think the Sean said ou hold Ryan Fitzpatrick good. That's about quarterback. You eating w's like that. All set. I haven't down because he's not going to be the starter, but if he's not a dumpster fire, who is delta fire us to said that delta farce started which one is. We gotta go just for us. We'll be back tomorrow.

football National Football League Ryan Fitzpatrick Billy James Tana Sean Jackson Jason Witten Jason Whitlock Tim Marcel James Winston Matt Ryan Ryan Patrick Jameis Winston Pittsburgh Steelers Jason Marcellus Wiley Joel Klatt Michigan Capri Tampa Jalen hearses
Jackson Browne - '5B'

Awards Chatter

1:31:21 hr | 8 months ago

Jackson Browne - '5B'

"Hi everyone and thank you for tuning into the three hundred twelfth. Episode of awards chatter the. Hollywood reporter's awards podcasts. I'm the host Scott Feinberg and my guest. Today is one of the most admired and influential singer songwriters songwriters of all time. An inductee into the rock and Roll Hall of fame and the Songwriters Hall of fame and seven time grammy nominee who according to rolling rolling stone is one of the one hundred greatest songwriters of all time number. Thirty seven specifically is responsible for one of the five hundred greatest songs of all time number four four hundred ninety six specifically running on empty and is responsible for three of the five hundred greatest albums of all time specifically number three seventy five late for the sky number three ninety one the pretender and number four fifty for every man the legendary Jackson Browne in one thousand nine hundred a piece in rolling stone unstated quote in the Sixties Bob Dylan had an uncanny ability to define a decade and its denizens throughout the seventies and into the Eighties Jackson. Browne has taken over this job Bob and done it better than anyone else. Close quote the New York Times in one thousand. Nine hundred three added quote Jackson. Browne and James Taylor were the most widely imitated singer songwriters of the nineteen eighteen seventies every. FM radio station seemed to be playing records that had the confessional Lyrics Folksy Guitar Picking Polish Studio Sheen and Los Angeles session musicians Russians. One heard on Mr Brown's albums close quote in one thousand nine hundred four the Los Angeles Times asserted that Brown quote ranks with James Taylor and Joni Mitchell as one of the leaders of the seventies singer Songwriter Movement close quote and in two thousand four rolling stone declared quote no one is more emblematic of the singer. Songwriter movement than Jackson Browne. For most of the seventies Brown provided the soundtrack for the baby boom generation growth into adulthood his music acting as both. It's personal and political conscience agents close quote. But don't take the media's word for it listen to his fellow singer Songwriters in one thousand nine hundred seventy David Crosby. An old friend of this podcast told rolling stone. That Brown was quote. One of the probably ten best songwriters around. He's got songs that will make your hair stand on end. He's incredible close quote in two two thousand four. Bruce Springsteen who used to open for Brown said in his speech Inducting Browne into the rock and Roll Hall of fame. That Brown is quote. Simply one of the best close quote quote wrote. wrote some of the most beautiful breaking up music break your heart. Music of all close quote and that his quote meticulousness of craft was always matched and balanced by the deep -Ness of Seoul close quote and in the two thousand thirteen emmy winning documentary history of the Eagles. Glenn FRY CO lead singer and frontman of the Eagles who at one one point lived in an apartment. Above browns said quote. I learned through Jackson ceiling and my floor had a write songs. Elbow grease time thought and persistence close quote today. Nearly a half century after the release of Brown's Self titled Debut Studio Album. He is still making great music and he is now in the running for best original Song Oscar nomination as well for the song a human touch a tune that he co wrote with Leslie Mendelson and Steve McEwan for for the end credits of five. Be a powerful documentary feature about the first ever AIDS unit of an American hospital over the course of our conversation at the officers of the Hollywood reporter. The seventy one year old and I discussed how he got into music in the first place how he wound up as part of the Laurel Canyon scene in the late sixties to whom he was referring in his song the pretender how his fifth and best selling studio album seven times platinum live album. Running on empty was an unplanned. Happy accident why. His songs about love and heartbreak eventually gave way to political activists songs up to and including a human touch plus much more and so without further ado do. Let's go to that conversation Jackson great again. What an honor to have you on the podcast? Thank you so much earn very dealing it. We always begin here with just a few basics. Where were you born and raised in? What did your parents do for a living? My father was a journalist and worked for the Army Europe after the war. Our born right after the war in nineteen forty eight in Heidelberg Germany. My father was from. La and my mother was from Minneapolis. Dampness did I hear correctly that part of what he was writing about was music. Yeah he wrote about music he he's I don't know what all he wrote about. But Yeah Yeah. I've I've got several articles of him interviewing trumpet players. My father had a deep love of Jazz. He I think in the army had been in the army band and there's a lot of funny stories about that because it wasn't his music but now he played jazz piano and in the band he played trumpet and he'd say like his his bandleader would say brown. If you can't play good play loud well again. If my information is correct interesting that more so than your father the person in your family who may be turned you onto music was your younger brother. Yeah in a way. He was a big influence on me. We both everybody. Everybody played instruments. I played trumpet. My brother played saxophone. My sister played the piano but by the time we were you know in our early teens we were all playing. Thank the instruments that interested us more and I was playing guitar and my brother was playing piano and guitar. And he gravitated to the radio be like rock and roll so he was you know and I liked folk music and I was barricaded in that world of folk. That was just sort of very pure. hewer away you know Bob Dylan was a huge influence and around the time. All kinds of bands were like forming around where it formerly been there. Folk roots uses loving spoonful example. I mean somebody to play John. Sebastian played in jug bands and stuff and but around that time my brother other started playing piano in a way that really. Yeah really a really powerful kind of playing that where the left hand whether these big baselines is big hole. Note the power chords really on the piano and Our page on the right hand. I am in marketing. When Dan hearing playing we gotta get out of this place by the animals? We've listened to pop radio all the time rock and roll with you know everywhere and I just never heard anybody do that on the piano by themselves. This fantastic so yeah Do you recall if there was a specific moment when it occurred to you that these songs you're listening to on the radio didn't just come out of nowhere that there were actually songwriters beyond these. These are people that are supposedly making a living doing this and you could be one of those people well. I'd almost such come together like that but yeah there was a moment when Jackie Okita Shannon was being interviewed on the Loyd Saxton Program Daytime Brock Program for those people. Might you can remember when Thaksin you pretend to play his pretender saying pretend to play and he was lip sync was like a phrase it. He used to describe what he was doing. But you know he'd he'd play Herb Alpert and play the trumpet and pretend to play these notes but artists would go on those shows and Jackie Shannon had some great songs and he was talking to your. She said she wrote him on. Wow that's amazing but also I met. I met this girl on the phone who was calling my sister a couple years before that I think I must the only been about eleven twelve. This friend of my sisters called and she wasn't there and edition should be back later called backlashes. What are you doing what you want to hear a song? Sure and she put the phone down and she sang this song and it was kind of do up song kind of Eddie my love kind of thing you know I said why did you play me that because I wrote it. I you made that right well again. You know women singing songs about their lives and then you know Jackie to Shannon was recorded by the byrds on their first down and my brother was really into the birds I kind of. I looked askance at the birds. Because I thought you know I mean I'm really into Pete Seeger's and Bob Dylan. I knew these songs that they're recording before they were play with drums. It wasn't long before I thought they were brilliant. But at the time I just really you're so now you know you did quite a bit with crosby and so it's just hilarious. Started that way so the way of seeing it described the of really a big turning plan your childhood and maybe just in finding your direction direction would have been literally moving from one side of the tracks the other essentially is that right. I mean you were the way it's been described in other interviews. You were kind of on the path after being a bit of a delinquent at one point I I think so. Yeah sure. I wasn't thinking of those terms. You know it just. He's trying to think about surviving really an if everybody you knew. was you know kind of a bad house. And everybody was pretty tough. Where I came from Highland Park in Los Angeles was primarily Mexican American neighborhood? You know a lot of gangs and knew the names of ten gangs before I was ten. Wow most avenues clover whitehill rosehill you know dot com frog town. I mean white fence. I don't know any of these places. Were matter of fact symbol places like Oh Monte who which are really close to highland park which was a mythical land was like bordering highland park but and it was a a place where people went to dances or what they went to go cruising in their cars. But I was only I was younger than that and so no place ever went was a place I got myself. You know downtown. We take the bus downtown. And so when you did move sent I guess it's basically Oh see. There are a couple of guys who you met. Who are older than you and into music? Is that those were contrite. We moved to Orange County and my mother and my father got jobs and relocated. I think my father thought that he needed to move South Highland Park. I think he was probably smart in doing that. You know there were a lot of heavy going on. Yeah gang fights huge fights you know a block walk away at the playground you know in the in the public so when I moved there I didn't know anybody and I made a one really good friend in school who live more or less in my neighborhood and as a lifelong friend and he's a guy who sang and he liked the righteous brothers. Me Turn me on a lot of music. He was really enthusiastic. I see what soul music and Righteous Brothers but also surfing and surf music and would it was on the radio and kids. You know like we're like thirteen or something. I think he also turned me onto Moselle. Listen I mean we listened to a lot of music both our families more intellectual than a lot of the kids. We knew new but at a certain point I saw hanging with these guys that were older than I was in high school. When I first started high school in the ninth grade one of the first things I mean I mean it was inescapable? You heard you go you go to school and there was a band playing in the quad playing bluegrass and those guys were really good. They're applying it was a Banjo and a guitar base. And they're playing not the sort of lime lighters folk music that you might see on the hootenanny. TV show their flaming woody Guthrie songs. They're playing old time folk music and they sort of drove my interest in in folk music and from that point on it was was just a matter of just quick succession. You've got turned onto white and Black Gospel and blues and folk singers. Who Right at that moment? You'll so you started hearing people like Carolyn. Hester you know are two D- cons. Joan Baez was like the first record was biased. Record when I was fourteen and run on that time learned playing saying a lot of these songs and it was a big like my friend. Steve Real the folks scare you. Know the folks scare of nineteen sixty sixty five or something but a lot of people are getting turned onto folk music and I think that by by way of folk music you getting turned onto the actual real history of this country and I began having a much broader view of civil rights which was something that was really more and more in the news and I mean Ooh I let we lived in a very white community when we first moved there I went to a more or less racially mixed middle school and that was for one one year in the next year I was in high school more closer to where we had moved my family and moved to this very white suburban tract home community. You ever see the picture of the dead. Were there like in in this row of track towers. As they looked like warlock some effect they might have been called the warlocks at the time. But there's there's one house house after another going up a hill that identical well. That was detract home. My parents transplanted as to which was funny. Because my father's father had built a really unusual house in Highland Park. I grew up living in a house. It looked more like a Spanish mission. Crossed with a Middle Ages. Castle will so it's got to have been right around this point that you started really getting serious yourself about music because how by the time you're before you're even graduated from high school. You have a record deal right well. It wasn't a record deal it was publishing contract contract okay and it was with the company that I would like to have had recommended it was. I didn't sing very well. And My friend Steve Newnan sang really well but he didn't write very many songs himself. He did a little bit later. He started writing but he he wrote with a guy named Greg Copeland and Greg Copeland was really an interesting person because he was in student government you know He. He wore a blazer to school. You you know. He wore tying a blazer to school and and yet he was keenly interested in civil rights and he found on his way to a very progressive point of view from a very conservative family. I think the first thing I ever saw him he came into a speech class of the that that I was in and he gave a speech had won a national competition news part of the forensics club and he had won this and and what a was was basically it was a sailing the Kennedys and camelot. He was sort of like he had like very sort of acerbic view of the the cult around the Kennedys and there was a very you know very sort of conservative. Which is which is where we live? I was living in Orange County and more than one of my friends. Parents parents belong to the John Birch Society daylight music we all kind of we all bonded on music and do we didn't talk about politics. We you know we just sort of like. Let's richest old people stuff. And those friends whose parents were like that she's fantastic schoolteacher and she's one of my longest friend arraignment. She's married to that other lifelong friend. You know high school sweethearts and have been married for. I don't know how many years it's got to be more than fifty years. So the current events that we're being taught about as you can imagine we're SORTA taught with a bit of a skew. There was a bit of a bias. There aren't any kind of bewilderment. I think like my civics instructor instructor. I got kicked out of the class just for asking questions because it annoyed him that I was you know saying well. Why is Mario Savio and not what what? Why do you call him? A nut cut like what. What makes him crazy? What is it like and he was Susan probably would be? We'll look at him. Just look at a crazy hair everywhere and like him and I just really expected more substantive argument you know from ca some as an antagonist. I think so you know He. He moved me to another class and meanwhile kids in the class for like muttering Pinko under the breath. You know I thought what the talking. What are they talking about? What happened in the sixties? The vaunted sixties a municipal hollowed glowing term. You know the sixties with was an awakening. That is it's still taking place today at the struggle against the sort of very preordained and prescribed version of you know America's place in the world and a racial and class structure. You know that was being questioned all of a sudden and and and We came into contact with. I mean right aware where I met. You know some some of the black musicians. I thought that was music. I really love we go see Groups play and group called Join Eddie two guys. Do you know on your company buys one guitar player was fantastic guy. Louie Shelton who is kind of one of the Hollywood a great guitar players anyway. We didn't share other like the fear of you. Know Black empowerment. Meant that lots of people around stood and we'd go here sunny charing Brandon McGee play in a club folk love and then invite them to get something to eat and go hang with them only to find out the restaurant we went to that there was like real real entrenched hostility to blacks. Would he kids during those. You know what I couldn't believe it's barrage of hostility coming across the room and and you know you you you'd read about you heard about it. You're hearing speeches about it. You you understood as happened in the south but you didn't realize it was happening in Anaheim Anaheim had its own chapter of the Klan in its in its beginning so time to grow up so I didn't really right about that stuff but my friend Greg did. He wrote a song about Rosa Parks. They they had a song about Rosa Parks Song called progress. It was just a you know a devout argument. You know for human rights for civil rights and for equality equality and justice. And you know it's interesting that you could hear a Bob Dylan record in which these continents the same that that level of songwriting taking place in they just went right out. neuronal sixteen seventeen. So this is Steve and Greg in these other people you knew they may have come to music before you but it doesn't. I don't think they were having their own publishing deals. How did how did they did? They did we all got taken under the wing sort of at the same time we met at a guy who had worked at Columbia records and we met him through another friend of ours. Pamela Poland who introduces to Billy James and Billy James Suddenly. He was working for Electra and he was. He opened their West Coast office to we live down Orange County still but I mean he opened his office Thing was up in Sunset Boulevard. It was a little office when him and one secretary but it was the West Coast Office of Elektra records and so we learn all about electric. He turned them onto us. He turned electra trend. They've they signed a salt to Nina Music and they signed at noon into you know singing record deal and then he. Billy started managing us as well as I mean then. He stopped being the working electrode but he just became everybody's manager and we've spent a lot of several Laurel Canyon living on his couch. We'll before that though. I think there there was this very brief but it seems like impactful trip to New York where you met a lot of people who you really have have done some homework I i. I don't WanNa waste your time. I'm impressed because you're keeping the order of these things really straight. which which I don't necessarily do when I ramble on in about Yeah what happened right Outta high school. Steve went to New York and I was still in high school for a while but he was a conscientious objector. Ernie Johnny got that status from his local draft board. Greg did too as a matter of fact and Steve had alternative service. Any he worked in the head start program in the lower east side of New York so yeah we drove to New York to see him. We got in a car that was owned by a friend of ours family that they need to delivered delivered to Niagara Falls. I think we drove straight from whoever we start. I'll probably long beach or something straight to New York City on the lower east side in about about three and a quarter days. It was around the clock. I listened to the KLA and fight driving across the panhandle of Texas. You know in the middle of the night right and in New York though there was seems like a number of people who I don't know if you would say they were role models or influences but just the amazing talented did people right. Yeah I would say yeah but you know there are freaks everywhere would I noticed was that people were friendly in New York whereas in Orange County they they were decidedly. Not If there are freaks if they're if they're long hair if they were you know then they were. We were in the minority that groups in the minority and people. Well I mean in New York stop and ask directions and they would all people gather around you and they'd argue about which way you should go get up and downtown say. Don't tell him that way. You know or how to take the subway and I you know but it was middle of winter in New York I was I had no warm clothes. We were like we probably all looked like Uh waves you know and Steve lived in a third story. WALKUP and We've lived on. Its floor once. They got got rid of the car in Niagara Falls. They took off for Europe and they found like Trenton remember how they kept waiting. I'm to hear about a boat or some steamer. They like. This was the kind of Boho dream. You know the Bohemian Dream. Take a steamer to Europe to backpack backpacked around Europe. And they did this they did. It now is not a mind to do that. I thought something could happen. I would have publishing deal. You know what I started doing is making demos with with one of the producers electric and noone was still in I think he started doing it to Greg Split. He just went to Europe and his thing was writer and he was traveled and he kind of living the kind of dream that I mean he was a huge influence on me and and he still is. But we'd had another friend that was in in a group with noon in high school. The three guys named Steve and they were called the stevedores. But this Guy Steve. Morris went to Spain to study FLAMENCO and I never heard of them again. I don't think he I think he must have stayed in Spain. And judging by my trips to Spain I could see white might not bother coming back just incredible culture her and in if especially if he started playing flamenco. Because that's a world unto itself. I wanted to write songs and we were. I was writing songs at a pretty a faster clip than I do now. I wondered if you can talk a little bit about just returning from that time in New York and winding up in Laurel Canyon which you know the generations that have followed including mine. All we know about is there's this sort of mysterious hallowed ground around there where all of these guys were doing such great work but also it sounds like having quite a bit of fun. Why did you end up there? And how do you think that period shaped you. I think the reasonable all canyon drew so many people to it was it was green. You know there's trees and and that was very much a big part of our awakening. You know that we wanted to live some place beautiful make music and believe free to so many so many kinds of freedoms were in the offing. You know like religious freedom and sexual freedom and chemical freedom you were. You wanted to be We we wound up in a little canyon before. That's where Billy James and his wife Judy lived and that they were sort of like our guides in in so many ways I mean they met so many interesting people I met Paul Rothschild the producer who eventually produced the doors and Janice Joplin and he turned me onto a recording of Mahogany by Kurt vile and he was a producer sopher electric records and he he lived nearby billion judy and he was a great purveyor of like really excellent. We'd he had like I said prevail. He was selling. I mean he was like a connoisseur's he's also connoisseur of like the what he called the one flush toilet. It was if the police knocked or if they started to enter your house like he needed a toilet flush everything seeds and all in one flush and because if if you flushed it and some of these seeds came back up your busted. Yeah that was what he would say. But he's a really bright guy. I think he'd been in the army. I think he'd been busted for for for weed before in new ORC and had done some time he was sharp and he was careful and at the same time he was funny and and Mad Gleam Gleam in his eye so the people that you met. I must have met through billy. I met David Rubenstein. Who Produced Thomas from hall a Mental Concept Musicians in Little Canyon people approach? The the thing is I've tried for a long time to fair what it was. What I think was happening was there was a kind of a breakdown of a hierarchy record companies where you were just as likely become really good friends with a record producer or an engineer as you were another another guitar player and when you went to go in the studio you're all like doing the same thing there was a whole way in which and it's always been that way now now I mean yeah I was used to kind of marvel and think oh while the musicians are just much the creators of this records? There's no there the whole idea that you had to get a record company to tell you you're good enough and then pay a huge amount of money for you to record and for them. MM to decide which songs unity doing all that stuff. Just SORTA Kinda evaporated and in my time. It didn't completely go away. I mean and I may publishing demos and then also made a record on a electric. The didn't get released Iowa for a lot of reasons he just got sidetracked. We that run nine hundred sixty eight just as we were about several of us were about to make records with electro we convince them to give us a recording studio in the woods. Convince them to let us take a remote unit up to northern California and And we were just really taken in it from the the band and Woodstock and big pink from that model saying this is how we'll we'll get down to it so we'll get down to brass tack and there's one really incredible girl at the record company. A woman who was more or less our age but she said she says Oh. And you WANNA like you're trying to escape the the the the clock. Have you ever done anything under the clock. I mean we had nothing you know. It's just some reason you trying to escape this discipline of doing things on time and under under the gun in studio none of us have done anything but we we did think the Dow is the way to do it and they let us do it to their great regret later eventually. We didn't. We didn't really make what they did. And when we did talk ah kind of across purposes in that. They wanted us to make one record. Among the three of us there were three writers in two or three guitar players base player and they were. They were confused. Electric had made a supergroup before they were trying to put together. Mainly I think Jack Holtzman. The president of electron the founder hundred electoral wanted something to show for his investment. He wanted to do something that would show off his recording facility which is backwards. That's putting the car before the horse. I like that we just wanted to make records and so we never got down to make we. There was confusion. There probably wouldn't have existed if we had you know like that strict strict recording schedule in the studio but to his credit. You have the reason. He thought that ways he had made several albums of songwriters. He had ahead to think of a singer songwriter. Project he had three songwriters on zoom out his or an urban blues record the Blues Project not the ban but the the album on Elektra which was three like urban you know blues players making three like a record with three of them on it then there was also colonel. Rain Global who liberty were a group to play together not really a group but they they traveled and played together and played played. A few things Anyway there there was confusion on that so it didn't turn into anything that they release. But I mean I guess it was still a pretty revolutionary thing. Even you know this was the very beginning of the idea that a singer songwriter would could be one in the same right. I mean it had not been around very long and well I guess I wonder for you if you would come along long just a few years sooner and you would have had to probably if you wanted to be in music be a one or the other which would have been more likely. Would you have been well. I think that there are always these people who wrote songs and we're in bands and saying it wasn't an identity. It wasn't something that people like fast onto. That's but what happened. was that any every every band had people in it that wrote the songs and the that if in bands wrote their own songs all of a sudden I think really from that from the time that I heard you know Bob Dylan the only bad of two or three years before. Suddenly everybody had was doing their own song. They weren't as good as Bob Dylan songs but in a away they they did channel the energy and all the growth that was happening on every level the growth was happening in in in recording. The sounds of things arranging the way way records played. And I might say that I mean. In that way the brilliance of Bob Domes writing was really outstripped by the brilliance of all these like British invasion these bands. If you look at the the record making from those bands incredible you. You're as likely to spend a week listening to Randy Newman record. Because it was so a strange it was so what is he talking about to have songs like David the fat boy or like you and me baby mixed in with songs songs like political science. Who Was it was pretty heavy? He was he was like always kind of apart from the whole because he wasn't he wasn't like some scruffy Ruffy singer-songwriter with a guitar. He was composer. We had him on the past few weeks ago. He has really interesting to them if you read his biography. I mean there's Bob his biography. There's a biography about written by some English people. You you probably if I don't know if I'd read that it's really interesting. Yeah it's really. They good I asked him if he knew about it and then he climbed not to know about it but I mean I was going to send them a copy but he no. It's about he. He was in -Sconsin a record company. Liberty he was part of the writing staff there and it was like human cubicle and he was he was in there with like Leon Russell whose name was Leeann bridges at the time or the guy from bread. I can't remember his name But they also had the record companies had you know writers and there was that building kind of model I mean they had people writing songs and they would get them to the people at Saint. You're right the roles were sort of divided up that time. Carole King has just risen songwriter. Songwriter should became friends with James Taylor and realize that this this is fun. If you get to actually see your own songs for people well well your first studio album that the public got to hear the I know you said there was this one that didn't get released before but would have been the self titled One in Seventy Two you and I wanted to just ask you if you can talk about you know just I as a reference point for folks I guess doctor. My eyes was the big head off single off of that I have done the on the you must have me it was i. Ah After that when people say you know strike equality irons high. You've got all this attention on you at that moment instead. It looks like you took some time off. Maybe it was an offer was just thinking it seems like maybe you were not sure what to do with success. Is that fair to say No wasn't that I think that I just I'm slow. Slow writer and and let first album was produced by an engineer. Richard Sanford or shop and I I worked with him because I wanted to work with an engineer. And I kinda wanted to find my own way so but you have a backlog of songs when you make you first. Album of songs to choose from. Some of the songs are on the second album. We're among the songs I could choose from. These days are to me a long time to write for every man. It's the first time it took me a a law. That was my second my second album as you say like the seemed like the longtime time do you like a like a year and a half I who am I to say. It's not that long time now. At the time it seemed yeah and and also you had people in the music business. This who's who had that you're right that sensibility of like okay. Now do another. which is like that or do something follow? That was something you know in the same same vein build on that you know and I was. I couldn't have written another doctor my eyes. I didn't know how to repeat myself. I wasn't interested in repeating myself. I just wanted to figure out the next thing that I need to say forever. took me a long time to figure out how to say it but also I'm just going to say that between them. It seems like another pretty important thing that happened. I think it was between them. You and David Lindley Sarwari together. He became a big part of everything. After Right Yeah David Linley. I had gotten in touch with them before the first album I was in England touring as opening for Laura Niro. Oh and I looked him up and I tried to book a session with him. And the guy who is going to produce the record at the time Denny Cordell didn't show up at that was the moment woman which he sort of to tell you the truth. Just see you understand that the the whole feeling there at asylum and David Geffen often was like take your time might before my first album there was also like you know like you're just. You're you're growing these great songs but you like you can take some time time. And he knew I was trying to try to sing better. I wanted to work on my singing. And he could tell because I wouldn't sign up with any of the producers. He suggested that I wanted to kind of develop you know. So fortunately I had met Russ Kunkel and because Russ Kunkel and not through through threw him Lee sklar and crack Derby. I wound up with a really cool band playing on that first album. And they didn't plan everything but they played on about half the songs Songsen by half the songs were were very Kucic. Meanwhile be right before that. I'd been in England because I was touring with Lauren Euro and I tried to do the session. And as I say I was is going to have this producer Denny Cordell and he the deal was he would produce my record if it was going to be an asylum in Geffen didn't start asylum records then then he would get me on. Shelter was pretty sure Geffen. I was GONNA start a record company but in manner but I wanted to work with denny like Danny Lot and when he found out not to give it was going to start a record label he reneged he just like completely disappeared and there. I found that out with the dating show up in studio for a session that I booked and done a couple of sessions with him. I mean He. He had guys like Matthew Fisher from procra- harem playing and Jim Kelly Nerine. Aren't those guys. Were over there. KILTER and guys in mad dogs injured. Were over there in England playing with Joe Cocker and again those though I love to get the the whole the sessions because I met Albert Lee who wanted to playing on He was great. And you WANNA play on the first so I just found somebody the else to play the parts that David Lindley had made up for song for Adam did him with his Lindley wasn't back in the states and so as we started the second now. Oh Yeah I needed to tour of that first almond I started putting together a band and the band wasn't as good as David. We're by ourselves. It just wasn't maybe it's my first ban. It was like my first time trying to play with the band so now finally when I say they weren't as good. I mean I wasn't as good with a band because I I just played acoustic guitar and there weren't even any decent ways of amplifying Kutu guitars in those days. If you play with drums we always also had people coming in and out of the picture right so with that second album for everyman the title song it was first of all. I believe kind of a response to crosby own song. But then he's on there with you you'll beyond other people's it's kind of a May you don't see that these days where where there is a sense of. Let's just do something together. Because we believe in it uh the people do collaborate but there. But it's arranged you know by the publishers. A Lotta Times or if they they just call each other up I suppose I met these little kids at a grammar school in long ago and they didn't know I was. I mean I was just some somebody that we're being told was musician. He's come here to talk to persona and they said well. Great you make records who your features features that you know. And I realized realized. That's like a big a big aspect of music who people collaborate with and who can be heard on heard a great J. Cole Record I. I realized that I asked my son about. He said that's not he didn't do that. Headsets other ban than I realized he was feature on this particular recording and it was is better with him on it than the diversion with Adams had redone it with all that kind of at the same thing. I think it's the same thing but you're right in in those days. Nobody nobody paid each other to be on the records. I mean that'd be invited somebody to come sing with you wasn't like Nobody paid anybody and everybody wanted to play together and they liked. I gotTA say Like on that Second Record Elton. John Played on that record right and he couldn't. He couldn't play because his visa. He wasn't on or here on a visa visa so he couldn't say we couldn't say Elton John we had to make an Like a number two plume for him on Redneck. Franken says piano by rockaway. Johnny Arago Day. John I don't know. And that was a reference to Jill and when we're talking we're we're three blues you know we'll so I want to read you back. Something you said about the third which I think is kind of interesting quote the intimate confessional and introspective song. Really had its time the middle of the seventies the first half off but then you got a lot of really bad examples of it so it always interests me to hear from people who liked late for the sky because those songs at least six out of the. We're really the culmination nation of period. I just don't feel anymore why I mean. So what were you feeling ended. I can pull the year in a moment. I'll pull it up. I wrote down the quote because because I mean what were you feeling at the time because it is a pretty Heard is it'd be hard pressed to say what I would tell me when it was well. It's seventy four and it's it's it's just like each track from from the title track to for Dancer where we're talking about. I guess what happens when we die. I mean these are some pretty dark owner. The for the sky was but when when was that quote from when you were saying. I wasn't feeling that that way anymore. I mean I I think it was no doubt at this point. We come out of the probably early early eighty S. Yeah yeah so I guess you really know does seem like long periods of time now between the seventy s and the eighth but there was. It was a long time you basically by the eighties. I was interested in arranging and trying to write for a band so late for the sky. Those songs were pretty much written by myself in a you know and then I spent some time learning to play them with abandoned by say sometime I mean like a month It and I'm beginning Vance from the record company to pay them. I'm to rehearse the band not going to make a record and now nobody even hers. Who says you just go in there and you you collaborate you you you you make stuff up but In that happened right away too. So yeah by by a few years later hours in in A recording situation with a lot of musicians. I'd played with them my first album and second album and it was. I wanted it very much to be like a band and I was really surprised. That record was called I'm holding out. I guess and I was surprised like nobody really thought of as like they didn't treat like a band is like my next album. I really well I might as well have used used a lot of different musicians but I've done both ways like on late for the sky. I used the same five musicians and if I played piano the J. winning would play Oregon and if I played guitar that he would play piano. So you either have songs that had you know piano and guitar and then the other the other wonderful variable is David Lindley whether who would play violin lap steel guitar. You had a joking thing. I'd read where you called it. Something with like using David Lindley is because like employer because he let me brothers-in-law Brothers race. He could do so many different. Yeah Yeah we can nicotine in the lilly brothers because he could play different ways and so so I've done it that way but then also like following that on the album before and after that I had done it with calling every great musician I heard about everybody I heard about that was granted. Sometimes I heard about from other artists or other producers. You know they're like you know in some of these people only played with once I've just was way of like adding dimension and learning about those players will related thing in terms of just relationships leading other relationships. I I wondered if it might spring from springsteen who you've talked about in a lot of things as somebody who you hold in the highest regard. I know he inducted you. When you were going into? The I think it was the rock and Roll Hall of fame just on the pretender album number. Four that's produced by Jon Landau who was always closely associated with him. was that because you were striving to do something something similar to the way that he was doing it. No I admit Jon Landau before the pretender but after the for every man and I think or or maybe while I was still writing songs so for late for the sky and he was the first guy ever met would listen to me. Criticize my own records and would listen to before that people would say oh. Stop beating yourself up and I go wait. I'm not beating talking about. I'm trying to tell you what I want to be better and I didn't have anybody in my life that could do. There was nobody literally. Nobody get not Geffen not really like he was the first guy that took me seriously. And I met Bruce at that point but I wasn't trying to do what he did. You know like I was just trying to go on finding my way and John was around a lot. When we're producing warns Yvonne's I now? Yeah and I say around a lot. He he came in the studio a bunch of times and he. Would you know talk to me by my choice as producer. So it's like two producers talking about about any would say. Oh this is really good like well. So what else. What are you GONNA do? I said well I'm Kinda Don I don't have any more money. And he said well you should go back to the record company and get the money money. This is really good. I mean it's hard enough to get this much money. I didn't WANNA get the money to make this record. In the first place he accuse me of like trying to be here with my friend. David this guy is brilliant. You don't hear it what's really he said it's GonNa make me money and there's a what are you being like that all of a sudden was I ever GonNa make you money and you'd say well you are making money as well okay. So yeah he's GonNa make you money. I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm talking about songs and he would say okay. Make the record but you know you have a budget of seventy thousand thousand dollars and I was like okay. Great so seventy thousand dollars. We went through it and there was some more stuff that we wanted to do and do better. I member recording and within a couple of different drummers but anyway Landau said just go just go tell him you need more money. So they're kind of advice was I appreciate it and with the record. I made right after that. The pretender also gift from wasn't around much longer after that he went off and quit he went down for the movie business for a while and then became back informed record label but was that tough to have a I mean and people without at all harping on this. I just think it's it's important context as to remind people that you know the pretender I a lot of people. It's one of their favorites of your work. But it came out of a very painful period for you will. Yeah and I mean did that shape was it always going to be sort of a mournful album or was that changed by what happened while it was being made. That's a good question the songs I didn't really I didn't really started any new songs. I I re wrote a couple. I finished a couple after my wife staff and there was a period like we started started. That record I went back to back from producing ones. Yvonne's album to making the pretender and Really like finished his on Friday and starting on Monday that kind of thing and and And when my wife took her her life it was Stopped for quite a while like several months but it became apparent to me that I just really needed to go back to work and that was the only thing that was gonna make. Help me make sense out of my my life. My my new life my single-parent a single parent and so I spent some time you know and then took some time off and then went back to work and John was the producer served record from during that time and he was great to be He was really incredible friend and incredibly like I say hey. He was one of the first people I've ever met. I talk to a about a lot of things about that about that for sure and also about about you know how to get what you want in the studio how how to get people to play what you want and what I learned from him. Musically was pretty fundamental pretty. It was Kinda like he'd be certainly he'd be listening to to attract and he looked like a boxer. He looked like he'd start like he'd make these gestures she with his arms and his hands like this kind of which he wanted what he wanted to hear. And you could liken it to the kind of punch and the kind of power our that. And he'd say you might. You might talk to piano player and I go go. Go go got. I'd made three records by myself. You know being in charge charged so we were you know gingerly connell like you know but it was hard hard to have another person in a position of you know you know behind the wheel. So you'd say well let me go to be great. Oh yeah he come back and his guide start playing incredible stuff. I will go well. How'd you get him to do that? And like an ask anybody specifically for anything. Because I didn't know what to add in. Didn't you know I mean I had some things. He's like the unusually gleaned from other musicians. Like if you think if you look at the song diffuses from that same record right Doug Haywood has been. He wasn't the Bass player on that. The time are recorded. I tried to record before this this really sick this very power. I thought really strong musical movement. which was the base going Dome uh-huh Pom Pom Pom Pom Pom Pom Pom Pom Component While the big cords were happening over Doug made that up Meena you know that became part of the Psalm. The way I wrote I just use what people did you know and I got people who to play stuff that I liked. Sometimes you recorded multiple time before somebody you know. Fat found that key or that that way forward I think I probably recorded on the freshman record. I think I recorded Lindley solar like seven times or or something tell us. Why don't we played acoustic? And he did that and then suddenly in the way he was playing was just it was great emotional channel and on the other hand like the Solo. He played on leaving looney played on late for the sky he also had to play that solo about Enron. How many times like fifty one hundred? I don't know he finally like. I started listening to one of the soloist. I started sending back out. He said I think you should listen to that one again. And that's the wants on there. He looked at me. Like I like that one like don't go back. And who knows how many brilliant things he had played before or then I lose my way I would lose my way but again I just wanted to say this thing about Landau is that he taught me something about arranging. That became a fire became. I'm like my interest because of the way in which he was actually able to shape the way people played and I I got on regular. Get to play with Jim Gordon. I got to play with with Chuck Rainey. I got to play with Jeff. Kara I got to play with Fred. Tackett these are all guys it that John wanted to play with. I really learned more than and I learned how to how to call people for what they might play on your record and and and he wanted to play. He wanted to work with Conklin sklar and and I was already working with them but he he didn't want to work with them he wanted to call. Harry was making a record in La. And he'd he'd never made a record l.. Any was calling all these guys because he read reread album. I'm not you covers. You know. Same time he would run into people that he eh parking lot of a studio that he had savaged in print. I'd say this is my friend. Sean land down. The person's eyes would narrow and look at them like John Meeting somebody that the ad like disparage their work and later and really very soon. I've during that record wrote a farewell to rock criticism. He said he he just quit. He's quit writing criticism because he was making records right. I've always sort of suspected that if you that would be a good way to get some critics to just like you know shut up or put up here. I'm in fact I heard a story about Pauline Kale and Warren Beatty Warren Beatty like reading of criticism. She wrote about one of his films films and he offered to give to fund a movie for like you you make one. Let's see what you do. And she wouldn't do it of course where she couldn't or she didn't in May that's like the Beatles telling the the hecklers in the background come on down here and fight us on stage like like it's not exactly a fair challenge Enj- but I'll just note before moving on the with the pretender. You had a top twenty five single with here come those tears again which was written by your co written. I believe right right by your mother here. She just was getting oh Best where I was going to make do without this. They just fees Straw man and then also the of course the title track closing track which you know is I think one of the songs that's most closely associated with you and it always begs the question as I as I read all the redback all the profiles and interviews and things I could find who is the pretender traffic screaming screen out into the evening strolls. Pretend Eh you know I I gotTa tell you that the it's a kind of a metaphor. It's kind of way of talking about how what people fake it. I mean it's it's me it's everybody but it's not a particular I mean it's about deciding to go along with everything in spite out of the fact that it's not going where you you already know. It's not going where you think it should go. And that has to do with the culmination of the sixties idealism idealism and the but also I I met a guy that was I had a guy staying at my house. We met him. We met on a on a film crew. You stayed come stay mild and you go hitchhiking. One time. He came back with a guy that had given ride. Okay and this guy was I mean it turns out later. It's you schizophrenic. And he was having a really hard time with reality and at one point poet. Saying look you doc. I've been up for days. I can't get him to go to sleep. And he's like he's not a guy kept disappearing from our house and going. You know you. He could down the alley. And there'd be a crowd around one of the houses like the most people got through the House of food isn't heckle park was an alley. But I walked up to this house and these people looked at me like Oh. It's one of these hippies. Like do you know the guy that's in. This guy was in their in their kitchen. You know just pretending like he's supposed to be there he just just sitting in their kitchen having a cigarette acting like nothing's wrong like nothing's out of the ordinary and these people were like an Hispanic family saying the jump on this guy I mean. What is he doing here like? We can't they couldn't get them to and we got him. We got him out of there but he was pretending to be down with where like hugest going along with whatever anybody so we got him to go and we took. We took them down to the hospital downtown and they wouldn't give him back. He said well we said wait the minute we didn't want to see we weren't trying to commit him give him back in and the guy said. Oh for Christ's sake. Can't you see he's out of his mind you know he's really irritable is like six in the morning and the got the doctor on charges like look you know. We asked him what day it was and he said the fourth of July. Where are you and he said you know? He was in Russia and like who was the first president. Antony Saint Saint some goofy answer. Unless why did you give his answer. He says well. I knew that those are the answers that I would have to get right in order to get out and hit the sort of reverse but he was say maybe that influenced me the high whole idea of like pretend faking reality with. That's the best answer I can give you know it's it's like It's a character that if I if I got a straight job you know and I'd be pretending I mean I was able to or if I if I gave up on the ideals that I that I really that formed my. You know my my thinking when I was Yang. I still have those ideals believe in human rights I believe in self determination I believe in you know preserving the natural world and and I'm trying to find a way past it. I mean I if you told me then the things we're gonNA get suddenly started. Just take a turn for the worse and getting worse even worse than they were in the during the Vietnam War. I wouldn't believe you but so the pretender maybe that's another sort of take me longer longer to make records starting with the second one but that's not uncommon. I mean as you say you start out with a a stockpile of Of songs songs for the first one. So what's funny. Is it some of my earlier songs of the most well known song of these days or doctor my eyes. I didn't think that much Dr Mayes but I thought it was. You have to have their. It was obvious that you had to have some sort of UPTEMPO short song short up tempo song to get on the radio radio and and it was Of course is because of David Crosby and Graham Nash that he got played it all. That's that's I mean. If they were the biggest band in America and suddenly there was this kid that had them on their his solo record. And that was that's back when deejays could take an an interest in a record and just play it. Let's see what this sounds like is. Who is this kid? While I'm looking right now at an album that I believe was your. You're the selling one ever. And that is running on empty. Went seven times. Platinum has been called one of the most revolutionary live albums ever made What was most fascinating to me to learn? The course of this was I saw quote quote. You said I always thought that running on empty was going to be a momentary diversion while I bought myself more time for the next studio album. Running on empty was an idea. And it was a digression close quote so people who don't know the actual bachelor this you. You're a guy who's out touring right and you're literally Eh. It's a IT'S A. It's what they call concept album. But you're recording it while touring so if you're in a hotel or you're on a bus or whatever is that correct. How that can you ever done done that? And here's how it happened. Well cassette players getting better and better. You could guide to knock a Naga. Msci Cassette player and they sounded incredible. But I oh I thought you could just start. Just start recording everything but I wanted to record conversations backstage. I wanted to record some of the hilarious stuff that people sat out there and we did a little bit of that. Mrs Post Watergate and the ban put a stop to that almost right away. Turn that off then known to be quoted saying some of the stuff that they say eh situations describing so but it was going to be a double. It's GonNa be a live album. That was going to have a bunch of songs by by the time. I've made three albums of. There's already songs that I want to rerecord. And Redeem myself make better make better versions of and then there are much a new song. So I thought I'll make a mix it up and I'll make a double album albumin. It'll be there would be like a jive ass promotion man you know from some region regional promotion guy like cou comes on you know with a bunch of flattery and puffery and like and just jive asked stuff. It was going to be characters and maybe it was going to be like some like ZAPPA's records it'd be like you know so. I wanted to get a portrait. I wanted to show people what is like out there. I loved it. I loved touring always always have an and no one had it ever made a record that way also known simply record everything I mean. My band played different all the time. So they're nights. That happened that when you go like this is so much is better than the record or this is and then it's better than anything that's ever happened since I mean why don't like let's put that up but it wasn't recorded. Well so I told Peter Asher sure I was going to record this on cassette. He said no nine lease a two track. If you convince you can get these performances just just running off the board and record from the board at least core on a reeboks or a student to track and so as soon as as I started researching that the the the turing company that toured Shoko said. Well we got a twenty four try. Just you mean just the machine. Just take a twenty four track machines will you. You could do that. You could record and I talked to my engineer. Greg Donahue had mixed the pretender and who could I as as far as I'm concerned could do anything. If he said I could do it I could do it too. Can I do then. He said well the way we'd have to do that. You won't be listen back. You won't have truck doc you whenever recording truck or studio playback capability but you will have the ability to get recorded because we'll have a guy in a room. I'm back there with the machine that it'd be looking at the meters and he will also be able to listen to one track at a time with headphones because you could prescribe a headphone Jack into each of these individual modules and see if it was distorted a it was it was a sound you liked so we hired guys to do this and they would set up this machine in in a in a room and we're playing big places plan you know like a arenas and stuff and every now and then Ladonna would like bolt back to. The weather's room us. He was mixing the House and he is like for instance. He'd noticed that Russell was not playing the cake as strongly as he was us on the song before because it was a balance. I mean. He's playing a quieter and he knew he had to like turn it up a little bit in the in the auditorium and he called the guy on the on the board back in the room and say what. What kind of level do you have on the kick drum and you say you got like plus many says yeah? We're plus three. It just intuitively not believe me to go and you run back look at it. I said No. That's not plus. That's plus when you like you turn up again because then so you know the guy did have to make sure that the by hand turned the volume of every there was no board telling you there's no board it was like I'm looking at my sound guy and he's probably not known it this way sin you should have at least taken aboard out there but we were just two guys with the student in the Locker Room basketball arena you know and we got it recorded that way but the first thing that happened was we sure we started doing shows and one day. We're we and we did have A. We went to a studio to listen what we got a couple of things. We meets him to judgments like we said like okay that I hate that piano. Can we use this other piano and they said no the other piano has been sent back. Well we just started shedding the stuff. We didn't need so they they sent my piano back on we literally had to get a CHP officer deterrent to chase down the truck and turn it around there were no CBS. And we got anyway. Those kinds of adjustments were being made right at the beginning. And the first thing we're the Russell said when he hurt his at you know these new songs are great. You should just make just make an album of new songs. I said you mean like a live album of songs. No one's never heard before because before that people always made live albums of their best known material it was always kind of like a best of with with one or two two songs that would distinguish that album from the others and it was just. That's always recorded over one or two nights in Taylor New York Los Angeles so yeah no one had ever done that and and when I went back years later to it was going to remix mix it for seven point one surround and I was used to looking. I mean by that time we make multiple lots of different takes every to only only one or two takes of songs like the ones that were recorded in the bus. Ms Like to take three takes amazing as successful as running on empty. Was the one that came after number. Six holdout I think is the only one that went and the the first one to go to number one right as an album. I don't did it. Yeah and that there were wordsmith some big hits their boulevard. That girl could sing. Can you tell when you put something out. Do you have a gut feeling about how well it's like with did I I. I'm Kinda surprised if now that you mention it was supposed. Maybe didn't do as well as they'll before and so therefore it was not a success. It didn't do as well as As running an empty so well it started out certainly big and I think though to seven times platinum I I guess just Running on empty. Add a longer life. But it's a it's an interesting thing. I mean. The main thing though is do you have your sense. Do you feel that you have the pulse of what people will respond to or do you just when you put it out there album that's done. Great versus an album. That didn't you know how. How well can you tell the difference before him? I think think I was pretty insulated at that point in time but not from the success of running an empty but I had a band had a great band and everybody was ready to do whatever we want to do next and I kind of dominated their schedules and I could take as long as I needed to take to make the record. But but I don't think that I really had. The kind of there was no one person that I had this kind of report with that that I could helped you know that I could talk to. Unfortunately all of them were people. I could talk to. But they're all didn't know them agreed right so I want to bring like a traffic. A conductor of you know like I like okay. Let's let's just try Craig's idea. Danny's the mill. Or you know lead you think Suffolk asking too many people what they what. They liked what they wanted to do. And even now that's that's that's that can back and still undo me. I can still like leave it up to somebody all. I like do what everybody else wants to do. And wait till they do something. Great great for me to go. Yeah that's it you know it's it's it's kind of a failing of mine and I don't because I don't go in there knowing what I want. I go in there to find that what I want and sometimes I'll like something a lot for a long time before I suddenly realize what's wrong with it interesting and I don't always suddenly only realized maybe I'll eventually go and seal I giving example like like. That album had a song. DISCO PACALYPSE on it. That was supposed to be ironic title. It was supposed to be an ironic. It was supposed to be like a remark about disco and about the way popular music was going it was supposed to be and utterly failed it pulling that off because swept up and trying to play it like it was disco so just came off to people who are like who are not ironic people that you were just jumping on the bandwagon braid. If I had done this on the way it started which was more like blown. It was like Lit Linley distorted guitar. I figure we could have been could have been played like rock and it would have been more of remark about disco and more refutation by that time. By the way people Laura people emblazoned had like slogans. Just sucks factors that I loved disco inferno I remembered reading that. I'm thinking like I wanNA I. That's good come on but not all disco was good of course and not and not all anything so so I kind of lost my way on that and when when when the smoke cleared. I've written too many bridges. I just wrote it kept going and trying to and and I you know I sort of kept heading into into the woods trying to make this song. Something that I liked in in the end. never really rehabilitated. That song that people have suggested I I can do it. There are other things wrong with it. There are the things I would. I would rewrite if I could say that I'm not I'm done with it. I was GONNA be a long time if I ever get back to. You know and by this point though you were now becoming much more political right more active active active and was it the Reagan era. That made you that way. Yeah I it was absolutely Reagan. Reagan sort of leading everybody. Back to this sort of Nick Sonian straight laced conservative corneas fucking world that that that was like you know. I know he's popular but I gotta Say I'm really disagree with so much of what he did and and Somebody last night. Yeah I I started to like win Reagan. I thought let's talk about it. You know I think that in lawers love I was trying to satirize the the Reagan again description of who we are as a country will lives in the balances around Contra Right. I mean that's That's one of the next thing. Yeah just that he I always saw him as a paid spokesman for big business he represented you know he was the host of the year. He was G he when he worked for GE and he worked for Borax Death Valley days he was kind of be actor is not very good and and not believable. And I didn't. I used to think no way was even know he. He noted become governor of California limped Governor Calvin and no way can become the prey on my God so it's a matter of realizing realizing that you don't realize that I mean that not everybody sees it the way I see it and and and the problem is worse than you think. And it's still that way now. I mean we've we have trump. Is the president young so us. I'm pretty much out of step with a great many of my countrymen and But I think the same time in step with reality which is nice to see. I mean this is not hard to talk about. I mean it's hard to get it to stick in Song Song. It's hard to like. Get a criticism of society to be clear enough or to be emotional enough to be. You know it's not easy even so I've done I've done it to greater or lesser effect in one or two of my songs I think is like lives in the balance of work especially in the long run. It's worked because the more people found out the more people got the song and more I stopped the the more I ceased just trying to introduce it. I stopped trying to give an introduction that song longtime ago except maybe say my son asked me start singing this again but I mean there was a time when people really they really were worried. I think my audience was worried that I'd gone down a rabbit hole political just being to political. Yeah Yeah Yeah and I and I would have to say something from the states like whoever feeling. I'm making some of you kind of uncomfortable uncomfortable but what I'm saying but I I kinda think it's important that I do you know by envy suggests that there's somebody needs to be talked about somebody some credit call that it's more like more of a speech than a song and I thought well. Okay okay. But it's a speech. I need to make so it's not about having a pulpit has about having a the voice as a citizen that's all it just leads me to the one last prefab thing I've got to say what what you've just said such thing because in between the sixth and seventh albums was fast. Time Ridgemont high. which you did? Somebody's baby. Four which reached number seven on the chart. Your highest charting single The the thing that I got a huge kick out of as you said it was hard to write a song about so close quote so it's interesting because as you as a person had more to say it's still hard. Yeah I got. I was thinking I'm just this morning. The phrase I thought there's going to be some way writing a rock song called less said the better okay so this leads us to something that I was really honored to get to talk to you about last night and along with some other people who are involved with this project documentary called Five. Be and it's all about the first AIDS unit of a hospital America which opened in San Francisco back in nineteen eighty three. And what's interesting here is you came to write with two others. The end credit song after initially begging off to having having anything to do with it right so Paul Hag is one of the CO directors. I guess you know him and he reached out yeah. I know him because of his work in Haiti here. A group called Artists for peace and justice which I think began as a kind of a sort of like a group met and talked politics in his living room but after the earthquake in two thousand ten they started raising money. I guess they'd worked in Haiti gets From companies go there and use it to but they may be because they are moviemakers and movie stars and the people that they were able to get stuff done. They built a school in short order about a year today that school twenty six hundred of the poorest children in the Western Hemisphere go to that school for free it's an incredible achievement and it was done in conjunction with with the priest down there named Father Rick and it was. I had a So I I have a friendship with him. Based on how are having worked Gone there and and visited that that place number times it was part of his fundraising for the school. And when he called in about this Our delighted 'cause I'm really happy to be asked but but once I saw the film I thought I'd I don't think I don't know if I would. I mean it's it's I've turned down offers like that so many times because of just not wanting to try to reduce expectations. I don't know what I can come up with the other hand like I written songs for movies. I wrote a song for the film. I'll do anything only because they said and they've asked they've had like three or four people have tried and they haven't found us on that they like and if you get literally said like you you got nothing to lose again like if if you don't if you don't come up something that works then you know there's not gonna be no one's going to be all you're going to upset anybody. Just give it a shot now. I want up writing something that that right right. After that. They in that movie they they just took all the music how they took out the prints on they took out the ticker every Sunday ticket. Forget sinead O'connor they. They had this great but because they realized that they they couldn't pull it off as a musical so I got I got my song back. I mean so so I can tell you the songs that I've written for films. I like them all for me like I wouldn't have written if they hadn't asked me to write songs for film and there's a much about me as as as any other thing I right like. I'll I'll do anything or the song on my last record cohere which was written for a movie called Shrink and it took a long time. That took a long time but knowing that I'm really slow knowing that I might not and I was really moved by the film I just thought how do I. How do I talk about this? What do I say right? And it's very hard to write a song for the end credits of a movie because you. You can't just tell the story you can't just you know you can't be redundant to start recounting. What happens in the movie so I sorta said I didn't think I I have the time and I'm making a record which I'm still making that record. But this got written. Because he approach London Leslie Mendelson who he told me about Leslie. And she and Steve McEwan got a good start on the song and I say that my favorite stuff is the lines that they've written. You know I did something that I think is a member. I'm proud of. I'm not GonNa Talk to you about which which lines are mine or whatever everybody in in a way I dialed in something that I'm I'm really happy with it was very much about what I'm going through my own life if I did anything it who is to really well it was. It's to assert that sort of language that that makes us about everybody is this is. This is a very a personal thing to talk about. As it's called the human touch it could be about. It could be good. It's gotta be it's gotTa be about more. The specific story is in the movie. But it's got to be all about that story. It's gotta be the point and when I saw the film again and last night I watched the whole thing since we had had worked on written. I see why I see way where he got right to it. But he's he's that that kind of a writer he goes right to it and you said that you haven't really had much experience with that sort of collaboration of writing line by line going through a song with other writers. Right that's true. I'd I'd never really done that. You get together with a writer or to other writers and sit down at a piano for an hour you book this room for like an hour and a half or something and and I'd never met them. I walked in. I was looking around for like you know who who might leslie. She came up and beautiful. What a beautiful woman she is? She came uh-huh big smile. A big hug you know. And then she's just so genuine and then introduced me to her friend. Steve and we just went in there and sort of when he's quite an old hand Dan you know he's really written with all these because he writes songs that are not. He's not GONNA sing. I feel that I was. I don't have that kind of experience. Mostly everything I do is something I'm GonNa. It was proposed to it as a as a duet to work on the chorus right away and then and then for a while. I spent the Canada I'm used to spending on a song grappling with one or two lines that were in the song when I got there that I I thought should be changed and and you know what should should be there. I don't know what should be there but I thought I just had a little problem with. I'm I'm I I cross examined myself so relentlessly when I'm writing a song that's why it takes so long I think what are you. What are you saying that will you meet? What do you think you mean by that? Well that's true but it just as equally choose the opposite like why. Why are you going to? How are you GonNa make this actually stick Dick you know? Make it something that that that people take into their their own psyche. And they're there and grab a hold of this song had to be about doc everybody's lovely everybody's relationship the thing that you hope you will find that you may have you know and I'm I'm so moved by this song because also it's leslie singing to me. I think it's like this was easier than I thought it was GONNA be. Because when I said I'd I'd give it a shot. It was was also happen to be going to New York. I happen like out. Sure I'll try you know right away just kind of gave itself and they were And also learning to sing that second verse. Because I couldn't sing the melody. I don't know what the melody was even so that was. Just good. Luck He is there lyric your happiest about being in there. I don't want to point to any of my lines and divided up that way but I would say that Some of my favorite lines are Steve's I'll tell you some of his most definitely has you know everybody wants to be beautiful. How true everybody has some idea of how they might be beautiful? And sometimes you see if you look at some guy. The movie my favorite people movies that guy wearing earrings. You see him as a younger guy like gay. But he's not here now he's he's like really flying. The gave banner you know. He's got like this leather jacket on in this funny zero. No but he's you know he's got get these to his lights fears fully out his fully out and this is the way people feel people need to feel beautiful. And maybe maybe I added to that and live life their own way. I think. What Steve did Stephen Leslie both do they have like a really? There is intent at and that sort of their version of cross examining the rational thought of the song is a sort of unerring critical. Recall ear for a for a phrase that might tip it in the wrong. They didn't want anything. That was GONNA be polemic they didn't want to like hoist. The debate flack they didn't want me going on in the way I very often do. When Song's where I started crying like really crude you know like make a case? You can't do that in a song like this is about what you know I know. And what and so I think between the you know we triangulate between the three of us we serve are set on sensibilities and by the time we got through all our all of our inner critics Alex. We had something that was we can sing. And with this song. I I asked less. Come out and sing on my last tour. And she's Out there too. That one song she was there to sing here. Human touch introduced to the audience and tell her. Tell them why we how we met in about the song and and there's literally cheer goes up after the first chorus. Maybe they need. They need to know something about song or not. Because I don't I think there's any waves just selling anybody on a few words. What the song with the movies about you can say that? But do they still do. They really get what the movie's about I don't know really really knows of your music video. which is really well done? I think you said your son may have been involved with Y- with that there. It is interspersed with clips of the of the film. That yeah that was really well done. Yeah but as you're saying if I had no idea that there was an AIDS connection to this still be a beautiful song. Well it has to be about more than eighty it's a can't be a dropout and and so the people that's always true I think some of the Let's say like like the song what's going on. Yeah okay okay. That's about a guy coming back from Vietnam. Wanted to get back cook connected who has got a particular point of view. It's full full frontal. This is stunning for for the fact that full-frontal political thinking let's talk about where countries going but in there as important written is all that is is just the way in which he's talking to his mother and his father and the thing that's being presented as the regard the respect and the and the the plea for understanding between generations. And let's go. Let's go for the love that we we know. We have between US rather than trying to score points in political arguments. Th that the and that song they start with like unabashedly saying you know like you know father father father you know we don't need to escalate but then it moves past all that it successfully identifies the debate then moves past it to what we know trump's all the all the arguments and this song starts starts with you know the you can call it a decision. I love that we hit on. That finally settled on that. Because I say it D- at the two lines you can call it a decision. I say it's high were made. Well I love about the languages that I'm speaking about myself. You can say that I it. It's my choice that I have made a decision to be straight but I do think it's the way I made and if I say that about myself it's very hard for me to deny that to someone else and say like you know you on the other hand you messed up. And that's your choice and you could change if you want. Just don't golder. That doesn't that doesn't follow and say I had a really close friend who was gay and He's he's gone now and he didn't die of AIDS. But why did I felt when I saw that movie that I was looking at his life. He didn't have AIDS but when the AIDS epidemic was first taking so many of his friends he just he told me this was like it's been unbelievable like a plague I've like I've lost so many friends. You lost many many many friends and and he wound up being a kind of a bath house counselor. He would go to the bath houses and tell people like don't you know please you know have safes sex. Don't do this. You Got People are dying and he would just try to save as many lives as he could and when he died he died of cancer cancer. Eventually but I do feel like He lived through that. You know when I saw that when I saw so many of these relationships what was what was more in stronger stated than the original film I saw was the relationships in the love between. He's gay partners. Who if anything? I liked what I liked what Dan said about some of the repressive and sort of the the repressive feeling the feelings that people. Should you know that you should be. We should be controls boycotted. The is reminiscent the intolerance and the and the inability humanity of a certain group is so reminiscent of. What's going on today that they I think they felt the ninety two state that strongly in the film? But I always felt this song will be this has got to be entertaining musically musically so that even if only one phrase jumps out at the end and they're not sure that will make them Wanna listen to it again. They'll eventually know what the song is about his. There are so many songs that I loved. I thought I knew what they were about. And then like eventually was old enough to get it and go. Oh that's what this is about. That's the power of music and arrangement meant and of the emotional quality in the song. I can't thank you enough for doing this. Really a treat to get to pick your brain about all this. Thanks very much for tuning into awards chatter. We really appreciate you taking the time to do that. And and would really appreciate you taking a minute more to subscribe to our podcast on your podcast APP of choice and to leave us a rating as well. If you have any questions comments or concerns you can enrich me via twitter at twitter dot com slash got fiber and you can follow all of my coverage between episodes at T- HR DOT com slash. The race. Finally be sure. Check out all of the other shows. That are part of the Hollywood reporter's podcast network Rebecca Ford and Rebecca Sons. Hollywood remixed Lesley Goldberg and Daniel Feinberg. TV's top five. Five Josh wiggins series regular Caroline Jardinez behind the screen and Seth Abramovitch and chip. Pope's IT happened in Hollywood on behalf of all of us at the Hollywood reporter. Thanks for listening.

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Weekly Wrap: Afghanistan Withdrawal, Coronavirus Fears

It's Been a Minute with Sam Sanders

36:45 min | 5 months ago

Weekly Wrap: Afghanistan Withdrawal, Coronavirus Fears

"Take all this. Baddie this week on the show. Npr Veterans Correspondent quil Lawrence and Co host of the NPR. Podcast the indicator they all right. Let's go from NPR. I'm Sam Sanders. It's been a minute. Happy Weekends to my guests and to my listeners. Got Two great guests joining me from New York this week. Stacey Quill. Hello Hello Hello Hi Sam. I wish I were here in California with me where it's nice and sunny this morning we're New Yorkers we'd rather be exactly if you're cases of krona virus. That's I think that's I think that's all that's the only card. We've got to play right now soon. So I if it's okay it stays in the beach you have all this produce and I can't go anywhere this weekend. Well Stacey Vanik Smith. Npr CORRESPONDENT CO host of the indicator podcast in planet. Money Quil Lawrence. Npr correspondent covering veterans. Issues thank you both for being here. We're going to talk more about corona virus and some other stuff But I I WanNa talk about a movie that may have been affected the biggest news story of this week Corona virus. I will play you a song from the movie. Guess what film I'm talking about. What kind of song is that sound like? This sounds like a heartbreak movie. I'm going to go Disney. At some animated thing we are way off. This is James. Bond theme doesn't sound bond in no is this like James Bond like exists. So this is the new billy. Bush Sung James Bond Fame. Really I like who I love. She's very mo Severi James Bond James Bond like going through. Something now is this like is this journey within like forget the villains outside now it's time to tackle the villains inside. The whole point of this thing is that His journey is delayed. Corona virus has led to several months delay of the new James Bond Movie. So this Billy James. Bond theme came out a few weeks ago. Anticipation of the film's release on April tenth. But now that krona virus has become a thing all across the country. They've pushed this movie back to November twenty fifth. Oh Wow yeah like several months so now. There's this new bond theme with no movie to Go with it Daniel Craig who is James Bond. He's on SNL This weekend. Going there to promote this movie. That has now delayed by six months. That's always nice to see Daniel. Craig I will say it is so crazy to see how krona virus day by day is affecting literally. It seems every part of our waking lives. Arrange a friend of mine on the platform this morning kissed on the cheek and we both recoiled really. No one will shake hands. They're doing this weird elbow bump which I you know. I miss shaking hands and hugging. I don't it's been great. It's been liberating. Don't touch me. Stranger anyway. Speaking of grown virus. We're going to start the show as we always do. Having my panelist Share their week of news in only three words Stacey yes I already have a spoiler. I know that your three words are about corona virus but there are about a kind of unique twist in this corona virus story. Tell US CORONA VIRUS PANIC BUYING CORONA VIRUS. Panic buying okay. What are you talking about? These are products that people have been buying in order to prepare themselves for the corona virus products that have seen the big spike in business as a result of people reacting to all the news about Corona Virus Rona Bump. The current about what products have experienced a corona bump? Well this is where things get. Kind of delightful. So they're kind of the obvious ones like Face masks have seen a huge gamble. One hundred seventy nine percents This is data from Nielsen hand. Sanitizer thermometers cleaning products. Things like that. In fact I talked to To men in Brooklyn they own a little consulting firm and Sort of on a Lark. For years ago they developed this product. One of the men this man. Andrew Kessler had been to Asia. And he noticed that people were face masks when they were sick and thought he wanted to design facemask. People could wear. That would look like a face mask so we designed this scarf called the scoff which is a smash scarf and cough it see. It looks like a scarf. But there's a pocket and you slide this very powerful air filter in anyway it was. They would get like a dozen orders A week or so. Now they're site is like crashed and so Andrew Kessler and Robbie. Patrick are like completely out of everything. I have a clip to play. We can't even keep up with that volume. We're just not designed. We are not three am friends and family contacting you and be like hey. Don't you make products? Yeah I've turned some of my beloved family away and fueled family members. You've had to be like I'm so sorry it's not happening. No it's more like mom you'll be you'll be okay dark it's crazy to hear you say that the weirdest stuff is seen an uptick right now like you were telling me this week that the work websites slack and zoom or seeing as well. I think it's a lot of people preparing to work from home. So that's gotten a big bump then like Costco and all these supermarkets have talked about the things that are selling out from their shelves. Now this is where things are. Kind of funny Oat Milk has seemed like a giant spike in demand. Why oat milk I think because it keeps time and fruit snacks. I know it makes me love America a lot. There's a pandemic coming all this crazy politics and like what do we do buy. We buy face masks and fruit snacks. You know like we might wash our hands but will make sure by everything. We can like fruit. Snacks dried beans energy drinks. Pretzels and supplements these are things have been released selling. Well does this kind of kind of makes you. Does it make sense to me? I don't know how serious I'm not normally that alarmist but we are kind of an uncharted territory. I guess I don't know I'm just digging. Like grocery delivery. Services are going to make a killing. But they'll keep delivering my question with this. You know it's like on the one hand. Stacey you have these examples of these businesses and products doing really well in a corona virus economy. Yes but big picture. The market's been falling all week. Oh I mean it's terrible for the economy because the global supply chain is so linked in with China. I mean so many companies have parts made in China get raw materials from China use Labor from China that this is an or sell a lot of things to China. So this is this is really hurting global demand all these companies from apple to Nike. Have come out saying that. Their sales are going to go down. They're not going to be able to get products out in fact the makers of scoff actually can't make more scoffs because part of their filter come an ingredient in their filter comes from China and they can't get it. I'M GONNA so you're saying that. Even some products that are experiencing a corona bump. They'll still be hurt because they rely on their product supply chain. Yeah yeah you know like such a huge part of our economy? Is The service sector. That's like one of the biggest areas of growth. And you know like you were saying with James Bond. Movie people are going to movies less. They're going out to eat less. They're staying home more. You know that's hard on a lot of businesses is campbell soup like doing really well I imagine they are. I mean the according to the Nielsen. Data dried beans. I'd beans I don't know lightweight lightweight stacey has a pump of sanitizer in the studio. I so I did buy some hand sanitizer. But only I could find was this peppermint and citrus God. No that ends GIN and tonic. Well okay maybe you got me there. It actually does it. Smells like GIN and tonic. Gin and tonic for the record does not work as hand. Sanitizer yes listeners. You should know were. You're listening to it's been a minute from NPR. The show where we catch up on the week that was I'm Sam. Sanders joined by two guests in Studio in New York. This week quil Lawrence. Npr correspondent covering veterans issues and Stacey Vanik Smith NPR correspondent and Co host of the indicator podcast from planet. Money all about the economy quilt. I WanNa ask you for your three words. They are about Story that should have been a lot bigger in this last two weeks. But I think corona virus and other stuff on the coveted up my three words and I think you'll allow hyphens and contractions. You're cheating I would say my three words are pull out and declare victory. Yes as in just leave and then say we want to well. Afghanistan and the news headline here is at Gosh almost two weeks ago now. The trump administration announced that eventually all American troops in Afghanistan will be gone and those troops departure begins ASEP. Tell us exactly what they announced. Yeah so the the key thing to note here that this is not an Afghanistan peace deal. This is a bilateral agreement between the United States and the Taliban which is still an organization designated as terrorist by the United States and others. It is not a deal that really includes the government of Afghanistan which is key Taliban for years had been saying. We aren't going to negotiate with the illegitimate puppet regime in Kabul will only negotiate directly with the US and the US had refused that in large part because it undercuts the legitimacy of the government in Kabul the Afghan government. So at this moment we have this agreement with the Taliban where the. Us says that they'll draw down in the next one hundred thirty five days. They'll draw down to about eight thousand six hundred troops and that's just drawing back to The numbers that were there and the abiomed. How many there right now. A twelve thousand issue. They'RE GONNA go from twelve to eight thousand in the next one in thirty five days but then in fourteen months I'm reading. All of our troops will be out of there right. That seems pretty stark. Yes absolutely and it's something that The Department of Defense says is conditions based. But if you look at the deal it really just seems like we're leaving and on the one hand That's what candidate trump said he wanted to do. That's what I want right. That's yeah that's the president said that Americans in and I think probably many people don't know that American veterans of the war in Afghanistan. A clear majority want that to my question for you though you know so there are some on the right. Some hawks that are usually aligned with trump. That are saying. Hey this this draw down has no conditions you know has no assurances that you know. We'll get what we need as we leave. But you know me as a lay person here hasn't the. Us tried to do conditions for the last several years in. That did not work. Like isn't the only real way out of a situation. This messy just to like totally leave right. Yeah yeah these hawks and there are some of them in both parties but Defense Hawks will say that when we left Iraq without sort of enough of residual force. We had to go back in to fight Isis. A couple of years later I mean for my Afghan friends on the ground. I think they're extremely worried that The United States will have laughed and although there have been some gains in health in women's rights and women's education growth of the economy What you really have are still a lot of the same exact warlords. Only now. They're richer. I've seen nothing to indicate really that the country is in serious danger of falling back into a just a horrific civil war that kills tens of thousands of civilians. Mostly last question for you. Both I could imagine a time. When an American President went to address the nation and say we're taking thousands of American troops out of a war zone. That would be front page news for a week. This thing seemed to come and go. Trump announced it and we kind of looked at the headline and left it. Why do you think that is? What is it about where we are? Now in terms of how we relate to the military and Afghanistan itself that causes us to just seemingly not pay too much attention to this stuff right now I mean I think part of it is. It's not black and white and a virus coming. I mean that is sort of like black and white and scary and you can buy fruit snacks and you know it's I feel like that is something that's happening that requires not necessarily requires but in. Our heads like requires action. So at least for me that that is easier to focus on his so. I moved home from living in Kabul. Twenty twelve and I'd been covering Iraq and Afghanistan for dozen years at that point and I would say it took me about a month before I could go an entire day sometimes an entire week and completely forget there was a war on. I had been living in that country For almost longer than I hadn't as an adult and I could forget that it was happening. So if you don't have skin in the game and only one percent of us do what I mean by that one percent. Oh so there's a civilian-military divide in this country. And only about three million people have cycled through Iraq and Afghanistan. In almost twenty years of war and the rest of the country I would think was encouraged to really not do anything but shop in a retired special forces. General told me a couple of months ago. Asking him about this and saying you know. Isn't it crazy the way this is almost set up by design for the American public not to be involved in not to feel any pain he said you know the US public's done everything that was asked of them? Which is nothing. This is clearly a story that we should be focusing on a lot more and I hope that in the coming weeks and months as drawl happens That AMERICANS DO ANY. Who On that note? It is time for a break coming up. We're going to talk about how scared you should be about corona virus we'll talk with. Npr Shankar downtown. He is the host of the podcast hidden brain. A show all about how our minds work and he will tell us why. Most of the time we think about fear ESPECI- Corona virus in the wrong way you listening to it's been a minute from NPR. We'll be right back home. This message comes from your sponsor. Show Bonnie Haute mates. It tasted just like milk. It's Creamy Broccoli and great with coffee and cookies but without the dairy because it's not note it's almost built new Shibani old this message comes from. Npr sponsor discovered. Did you discover matches all the cash back? You're on your credit card. At the end of your first year automatically with no limit to how much you can earn or how much they'll match plus discovers accepted at over ninety five percent of places in the US that take credit cards. So when you use your discover card get used to hearing yes more often learn more at discover dot com slash yes twenty nineteen Nelson report limitations. Apply on a secret military recording a sound so haunting one scientists believed it could change the world and mind was racing as I listen to this and I thought this. This is the way join. Npr's and visit Delia. For the first episode of our new season. We are back. You're listening to it's been a minute from NPR. The show where we catch up on the week that was I'm Sam. Sanders joined by two guests this week my colleagues and friends quil Lawrence. Npr correspondent covering veterans issues and Stacey Vanik Smith NPR correspondent and Co host of the indicator. Podcast from planet. Money question for you both. What is the weirdest thing that corona virus has made you do in the last few weeks? Oh this is easy. I was getting ready to do an interview and I was on the subway and I had to hold the poll. You know holding the pole and got out of the subway and I wanted to put pure L. on my hands but couldn't find it in my purse and I started like ripping off all of my queant bags and everything. Just rifling rifling through my purse someone to try to find the parral. Where's my Perot Bureau? Then I found the pure L. S. disinfected. My touched all of your stuff with subway and just been so panicked quilt Sam. I don't know if you can relate to this guy. I don't know how long you've been a bearded person for a decade now. Yeah okay so I grow on every winter because I hate shaving and I can kind of get away with it for the winter and so I'm sitting here the whole time like playing with the beard because it's his hair on my face and it's so new and all this and I'm really it's it's not so much handwashing as the not washing your hands and then touching your face like I can't help it. I touched my face all the time in. Its are faced with this advice. Like don't touch your face. I'm so I'M GONNA SHAVE MY BEARD. Shaven off early probably tonight. I asked this question just to like you speak to how much criminal virus fear has been feeling really wacky for all of us these last few days the last few weeks so. I called a friend of mine his name is Shawn he is the host of NPR's hidden brain. Hi Hey Sam. Thank you for having me. I'm realizing this is your first time on the show And I Apologize. No worries it. Apparently takes a global pandemic before. You'll have me on your show. So Shankar hosts hidden brain which show all about the unconscious patterns that drive human behavior things like fear so he is a perfect person for this kind of chat but we also begin with talking about why fear in general is such a tough feeling to shake. Fear is actually one of the oldest Emotions in the brain if you go back species very distant from humans the fear circuits in the brain are almost identical species that evolved millions of years before humans did so in many ways. These are very ancient systems in the brain. Fear helps keep us safe. And so it's a very valuable role in our life that said over the last fifteen twenty years. There's been a lot of work showing that humans are often not fearful of things they should be fearful off and fearful of things that they shouldn't be fearful of now doesn't mean that the fear circuits in the brain are always wrong but it does mean that in some ways because fewer evolved at a time when we were confronting very different kinds of threats and threats we confront now our minds in some ways are more attentive to the kinds of threats that our ancestors faced rather than the threats that we face today. Example if you think about the top leading causes of death in the United States Smoking related illnesses Obesity hypertension things related to diabetes. If you ask the average American how afraid are you of smoking related illnesses in Heart Attacks? If you ask the media. How often do you have stories about smoking related debts and heart attacks and strokes on your front pages? You will find that in general we vastly undercounts. How afraid we should be of something like heart attacks and strokes and again this makes sense from this evolutionary perspective. Most of our ancestors didn't get to the point where they died of a heart attack or a stroke. They died because they got eaten by a Predator and so in some ways our brains are much more attuned to threats posed to us by you know serial killers and sharks and terrorists than the artist of smoking related illnesses even though if you total up the number of Americans who die from smoking related illnesses. You're you're talking of something on the scale of nine eleven scale attack the other day in the country. Yeah and I find you know what further complicates this. What should I be fearful of? What should I not be fearful of the Internet makes it hard? Twitter makes it hard book makes it hard. Because if you live a life where you're scrolling through the news and headlines every day you don't know which to focus on which is more important a tweet about this is next to a tweet about that and it's all in this constant flow kind of distorts where our attention lie. That's exactly right so it's also the case that because the media are covering you know the questions related corona virus so intensely. It's very hard to actually escape coverage of reading about it in the press. You're hearing about it on the radio watching it on television. Your friends at talking about it and so you're getting all these signals constantly that tell you. Here's something extremely frightened? Extremely fearful you constantly reminded if it and because you're constantly reminded of it. It comes very readily to mind. So if you ask the average American today what should you be fearful off? It wouldn't be surprising for Americans to put the corona virus at the very top of the top of the list just because it's so easily available to our minds. We draw the conclusion in some ways that it actually is a very very serious threat So then knowing that. How do we fight that? What are some practical tips for for our listeners? About how to combat some of those negative fear practices. I guess you could call. Let me actually complicate the picture? A little bit. I think the case of the KRONA VIRUS. It actually is unclear. How fearful we should be so it wouldn't be right to say we are overly fearful of the corona virus today or isn't actually right to say we are under fearful of the Corona virus today because the truth is no one actually knows how afraid we should be. Well yeah because we still don't actually know how many folks have it here in the state exact. The numbers are still iffy. Were still waiting to get folks tested. So yeah you're right. We still don't know we we don't know so given that none of us can actually pure into the future and say here's what's going to happen in two months or three months or six months the way to actually deal with something like is to actually listen to public health authorities and in many ways this is difficult to do. It's easy for us to listen to our twitter feeds and listen to our neighbor. Who scared but people in public health departments are actually paying very close attention to the data and this is actually an excellent time to prioritize what they are telling you over what your own mind is telling you. Okay easier said than done but I hear you andy. What surprised you the most about the way? We've collectively responded to grow virus so far in terms of our fear. Our public reaction to all this stuff. Well I would say they're one of the most interesting things is that it's actually excellent that we've had a new virus. Basically imagine one part of the world and within a matter of days or weeks. The entire world is on high alert a threat that was at one point far away and distant. If you live in the United States is being treated as if it's an imminent threat here and on the one hand you can actually argue that's brilliant. That's actually exactly what you should be doing. Pay attention of things that are coming before they actually hit you so you can take precautions. The downside of this is that because you're so worried about this. We might sometimes choose actions. That are actually counterproductive. So for example in the aftermath of nine eleven people were so fearful of flying on airplanes. Said they started driving a lot more and what we know. Statistically is dangerous more dangerous than getting killed in a terrorist attack on a on a plane. And now you actually greatly increase the risk. You're actually GONNA get killed. You are someone who thinks a lot about the brain and the mind and how it works and how to make it work well for you. Have you found yourself? Surprised in any way or disappointed in your reaction to corona virus Not so much disappointed but I think just simply knowing that our minds work the way they do in itself is usually not a defense against our minds actually working the way they do what. I'm trying to say that is yes. You can know the the research that basically says we sometimes over count some fears and undercount other fears but merely knowing that is often not enough for minds to not calibrate correctly. And so yes I I would say that on the scale of things. I'm actually quite afraid of corona virus. Because when I look at the process he all kinds of examples of things that could go wrong and micon help. My mind starts turning and saying what could happen if this happens and then domino falls in. This happens and at times like that what you have to do and what I'm trying to do is say pay attention to the evidence. Listen to what the CDC is telling you in many ways. Trust what experts are saying. I mean we live in an age where people have come to undercount the value of authority and expertise. But I would actually argue that. This is actually an excellent time. A disaster catastrophe. This is when you actually need experts. Who actually are studying this paying attention to the data telling us how to think how to respond also washed her hands. People just do indeed wash your Andy's. It's such a pleasure. I appreciate you so much. You come my fears in the last few minutes. So thank you for that. Thank you SAM. Thank you for having me on all right. Thanks again to shocker. Without them he is the host of NPR's hidden brain listener's time for a break when we come back no fear only fun. We'll play my favorite game. Who said that BBB the following message comes from our sponsor to lay. Who's new case? Oh Blanca is made with milk sourced from Wisconsin. Farmers like Brannagh handle reenter. Family bought their farm and twenty sixteen and are working to pay off their debts so they can make the farming light but viable future for their kids. I know so money Older generation arms that ourselves so far in debt and then they're just passing it onto the next generation and hoping they're GONNA get out. Well they probably have to get into debt themselves. The younger generation get started and then there cumulating parents debt and. I don't want that for my kids. So we we really do. Try Hard to get the farm page down if they do wanNA farm but I will completely understand if they do not wanna firm because they do see the struggle struggle with it but if they are gonNA farm. I want the farm. It's been a good position financially that we could be in a position to help them out. Actually to learn more about how to lay is working to reinvigorate farming. Goto JAPODLAY DOT com slash farmers. Hi I'M UNUSUAL. Moreau de and I am the new host of NPR's Ted Radio Hour. I am so excited because we are working on. A bunch of new amazing episodes were exploring big ideas about reinvention making amends and the psychological effects of climate change our first show drops March thirteenth. Please join me. We are back. You're listening to it's been a minute from. Npr The show where catch up on the week. That was. I'm Sam Sanders your host here with two guests this weekend. Stacey Vanek Smith NPR correspondent and Co host of the indicator a podcast from planet. Money all about the economy. Hi Stacey thanks for being here hi Sam also quilt Lawrence. Npr correspondent covering veterans issues. Y'All it is time for my favorite game. Who said that? Stacy you've played before it's well you have not terrible. I'm terrible at this game. I never know who said anything. Give quill the rule Stacey Okay. We will hear a quote from the news and we. It's our job to figure out who said that and kind of what they were talking about. So it's It's kind of like newsy thing that happened this week or we cooperate or are we competing. Oh you're competing. And what did we win? Not thing pride good bragging rights. We're in my hand sanitizer okay. It might be the only one left in the city. I know this the stakes are high now back here we go. I quote. I feel like a lot of people put it out. There is a negative thing for me. It's more years under my belt more learning and knowing what I want what I don't want and what I won't settle for. This is about a reality show the Bachelorette yes yes it's been announced that the next Bachelorette will be thirty eight years old oldest bachelorette bachelor and Bachelorette God thirty eight. That's wonderful I'm that's right for me. Yeah her name is Claire. Crowley she's been on the bachelor before and she's a job and everything too right. She has a job I think she is. Oh she has a Sacramento hairstylists. She was first introduced bachelor. Nation in two thousand fourteen as a contestant she also did two stints on Bachelor in paradise. I'm excited for her me to quills. No I'm just thinking trying to remember when I was thirty eight. It's been. She sounds incredibly young to me anyway. Yeah how old are they? Normally I would say late. Twenties is sort of the sweet spot for for a single eighties on reality shows. Also there's news that the bachelor franchise is considering a Bachelor for seniors. So I heard this signed me would want that. Watch the hell out of. Yes yes all right. Stacy you got that first point next quote. It's a very short one. The quote is I broke a nail someone who broke anelle protecting her. This this was Joe Biden's wife Jill Dr Jill Biden right close enough. We'll give it to you lose hand sanitizer so that quotas actually from Simone stander. She's a senior adviser on the Biden campaign so both Simone Sanders and Dr Joe Biden Helped take out a lunging vegan protester who tried to interrupt Joe Biden during his Super Tuesday night. Victory Speech Sanders came up in drag the protesters away from Biden after a Joe Biden leapt to his defense and blocked the protester with her own body off and it was a moment. These two superhero women defending the crowds blocking breaking nail lunging. Vegans is really under. Everyone's worried about the corona virus. Oh Brooklyn's newest. Hottest Band is lunging Vegan. Oh my goodness this game is tied this last quote shocking ready I liked it I got the Bachelorette and quill got like the political news. You need to start rethinking. Some things about this. Last quote is also political. The quote is the fight may take a new form but I will be in that fight and I want you in this fight with me. We Will Persist Elizabeth Warren. It's it's like the best possible outcome. We nailed it. I were so nervous about. Who said that really feel like we're deeply UNHIP. We're a little unhappy. It might be like Arianna guerande talking about her break-up or something and we were like what are we gonNA do? Yeah it's all good. So that quote comes from Senator Elizabeth Warren. She left the race for president this week. She's declined to endorse any of the other candidates. But there's been a lot of soul searching since she left the race on the left about whether a woman can ever be president and it was a kind of a sad few days for certain parts of the Internet and the country. But I will say of team Warren. Her Dog Bailey Probably found the best way to more exit. There's this hilarious video of him at Warren Campaign headquarters stealing someone's Burrito and then you see Bailey the dog chopping on this Burrito and he will not let it go and like three or four. Staffers are trying to pry Bailey's mouth. Bailey's like nope. I'm eating my feelings away from you do you. Bailey do you Bailey. All right on that note congrats about the cause you both tied for a win Great News all around I'm going to get a plaque for you. We can. We can divide in half like those old best friend necklaces. That concludes who said that now. It's time to end the show as we always do. Every week we ask our listeners to share with us the best things that have happened to them all week. We encourage folks to Brag. Let's listen Hi Sam Julia from Vermont. The best part of my week was taking my five year old daughter to New York City and the best part was actually getting a huge crazy shake milkshake that was covered in whipped cream and cotton candy and her eyes lit up like the fourth of July when she saw that thing and it was so much fun. Hi Sam this is Megan from San Diego and the best thing that happened to me. This week was that my dog played fetch for the very first time. The best part of my week was running my third marathon. This native born Texan fine. We got to Bugis. Bugis is awesome high chair Mike And one of the best parts of my week was listening to NPR. Today I got two huge piece of news I. I found out that I was awarded a scholarship to work for the daily Iowan and then a few hours later I found out. I'm also the high school journalist of the year. He Sam this is Craig going from Park Illinois. And what's making me happy this week. Is that my group of ten best friends from high school. Just concluded our seventy fifth book in our all-male Book Club and I'm so grateful for this group of friends who have been able to let down their guard and discuss all manner of things that a group of SYS ginger forty five year old white guys might not otherwise. Have the opportunity to talk about exam. Love your show. Thanks for everything. Thanks for listening. I really love the show and your twins are also the reason I binged. Love is blind this weekend feelings about that. Thank you so much Sam thanks. Speaking of love is blind that reunion this week. I have your fault that I watched that show like my mission for the year is to make everyone watts. Love is blind as we quarantine ourselves for Corona virus. It will because laughing. That's true thanks to all the listeners you heard from their CRAG Natalie Tamarick Steve Carrell Megan and Julia. I WANNA see photos of that bookies because we left buggies and I want that all mail book club to similar reading lists listeners. Share with me the best part of your week at any point throughout any week just record yourself on your phone and e mail that voice file to me as Sam Sanders at NPR dot Org Sam Sanders at NPR dot. Org On that note. Now it's time to say goodbye to my panelists sad to see you go pleasure to have you here this week. Quil Lawrence. Npr correspondent covering veterans issues and Stacey Vanik Smith Economics correspondent and Co host of the podcast. The indicator thank you for your time. Thank you this week. It's been a minute was produced by UNDULATE. Sassari Danny Hanzel engineer. West are viollis editor. Is Kitty Eisley? Are Superhero. Intern Hubs Fatima. Our director of programming at Steve Nelson are big bosses. Npr senior VP. Of programming on your grunted. Our engineer is Josh Newell Listeners. Till NEXT TIME. Thank you for listening. I'm Sam Sanders talk soon.

NPR Sam Sanders US Quil Lawrence Stacey Vanik Smith Stacey Afghanistan James Bond New York City Daniel Craig NPR Sam Nielsen Kabul Twitter Billy James Stacey Quill China Bailey California
The Smashing Pumpkins - Chapter 3: Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness (Part 1)

The Discographers

1:58:51 hr | 1 year ago

The Smashing Pumpkins - Chapter 3: Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness (Part 1)

"I think when you're a young you know everything's fine so fast. You don't realize you're doing magical things how actually magical they are. We're literally D._I._Y.. Musicians who wrote around rounding Van and this is the music we choose to play and somehow it wasn't Indian off or it wasn't cool enough and that steeled us to be completely contrary in unit. I had no expectations other than brutal honesty. That's the way we are with music. He gets the same from us that we get from Hymns uh-huh you know the litmus test doesn't change and number two in the nineties I mean we were convinced that the music was born of self-destruction and self off deprecation and to come full circle and realize that the music is deep enough to be rerouted in passionate embrace and still be as effective pretty pretty unbelievable but the goal was to see the four of us onstage and I was cool with it was going to be one song or a whole show but she suffered from incredible stagings I._D.. And that was part of the equation always so when you saw her on stage she was inwardly going through a lot more than you would have. You would've thought because I ate her. Stadium was very icy but inside there was a lot of inner in of stuff going show must go on and <hes> Jeff everything that's in the business. It's announced the moment james he walked to my wife changed. My life forever the a moment Jimmy Walking or change your life saver doesn't mean every day was perfect and we held hands and saying around the Campfire but somehow in the midst of whatever our own individual and collective cast we were able to make these diamonds that is the shared thing hello and welcome to the discoverers podcast asked I am one of your host Tyler and with me is my other host Brian. Who is the doctor Smith to my will Robinson wait? I don't say danger. That's not in my line has the robot. That's well hi. Everyone perfect nailed it nailed. I circle takes the square watch faces so long had no no valuable reference to add to that. I'm sorry I really legit out there Bryant there. There's there's there's the old T._v.. Show there was a movie then there was is a the new reboot on Netflix didn't watch the new. I haven't seen lost in space since like nineteen ninety nine and met Leblanc was still young and virile so Brian. What are we gonNA talk about about this? In this episode all right in this episode we're going to be talking about the first fifty percent roughly of the third studio album from smashing pumpkins melancholy in the evidence sadness. Yes so it's a double album we don't have time to cover ever both halves in full detail and give them all the the attention that each side deserves if we tried to cram them both into one episode sowed that or the this episode would be four hours long and Brian. I don't want that. I don't want anybody to have to listen to me for longer than than the length of our regular episodes sort of irradiation saying it's not just but the dosages but it's the time of exposure as well. It's really for your own protection yeah and it really <hes> if you look if you try and dive into the besides as I've been trying to do it's there's a lot about a week of songs. It's about one week of songs I made a playlist with the melancholy in the offense sadness remastered master with a bunch of extra songs and then there is a compilation of even more songs that didn't make it on the album called the aeroplane flies hi and that was even released with more songs. My play was playlist with both of those together is twelve hours hours and twenty two minutes would go hot one hundred and eighty two songs so <hes> if you write us to ask do you know hey. What are you gonNA make cover? Besides my answer is no no no problem skim and if any of them really catch me catch my I might Mike call one out but I tried to listen to I haven't I been trying to listen to as many as I can and there's a lot of good songs in there <hes> ed bytes. There's just there's no way to cover all of these not with what we're doing. I'm sorry I'll <hes> I'll tell you what listening public hotel your friends and family about the show and if you can get this or the next episode so I'm talking about the episode's either for the month of June or July so the two halves of his album if you can get us up to twenty five hundred downloads in a month tyler tyler and I will pige each pick five songs okay and write short dissertations them from the Bee's. It's otherwise is it will just be US saying yeah. I like this. I like that one. You know for that kind of like that. Yeah I did not talk about this before the show but it sounds good to me I I will verbally agreed to it. I know it kind of threw that one out there but yeah if there's somebody you think would enjoy the show. Please get them on board. It is up to twenty five hundred if you are really thirsty to hear US talk about some decides that's that's the deal or figure out how to activate some Russian bots. Let's make it happen. Please don't gain the system like that will give me false out. I'll think I'll I like you know stranger digital friends that I don't actually have the the month after that giant peak would be than us going but what did we do wrong. What did all those people go and then I would be sanded infinite sadness all right so back to the yes so the CD sequence is different from the album the the vinyl yes yeah? I think you pointed that out to me. Before the show the the vinyl was basically broken up into six six discs are six sides so three three miles right but <hes> each side had a name <hes> so side one was dawn's inside too was teatime site three was dusk side four was twilight side five was midnight inside six was starlight <hes> so sometimes when it's broken oh can up into <hes> just the two CDs each each C._D.. Is referred to as the first APP is dawn dusk and the backup is is referred to as twilight through starlight makes <hes> the track order does actually change <hes>. There's some stuff that's on one half the album that ends up another half of the album it really there's quite a lot of kind of shuffling that goes on there yeah. I know that the the C._d.. Sequence is supposed to be the first half is represents day in the second half represents night <hes> I don't don't know it will get into the songs later like you know with those themes kind of come out but <hes> that whole idea kind of gets thrown out the window with the vinyl the track list where it just it really when I made the the track list and I was looking at like wikipedia with the listing and moving the songs into playlist it I was I was really jumping all over the place trying to find the songs and it really does feel just jumbled but then I I still haven't taken the time to actually put this whole thing in that order in a playlist and so I'm curious about that and I think if I do that I definitely want to keep in mind. <hes> decide gaps yet as beside yaps APPS. I might even WanNa make late treated like like six little peas basically yeah <hes>. I don't know I don't know so that's something into another way to listen to this yeah so that that's of them can probably discuss even more next next month. Once <hes> we've had a little time time to kind of do some comparison but yeah the there was a rather shockingly large difference between those two release media then. It's not a super common thing yeah <hes> so maybe if you have experience with this you know that you prefer that track listing send us an email or something. Let us know what you think happy to read that and I'm GonNa go at Harken back to our first season here. I would like to challenge any less a series listeners who are willing along with you tyler myself to make a one CD version of melancholy which <hes> <hes> <hes> so I mean what what's the total track count here. We got <hes> fourteen and fourteen so we've got twenty eight songs. So what's your fourteen track version of of this and we can discuss that next month as well okay I will. I will put that in my homework sorry. I'm having ideas all yeah we. We have a pre show meeting none of this I just I got excited. Sorry I live in the moment. It's cool. That's cool all right well. Let's <unk> said let's dive into history of what <hes> what led up to melancholy sadness after thirteen months on the road supporting Siamese dream billy billy corgan immediately began writing for the next smashing pumpkins album inspired by the Beatles white album the band wanted the next release to be a double album corgan knew that they could easily easily produce enough content he said quote we'd almost enough material to make deaths. We'd almost enough material to make Siamese dream double album. I really like the notion that we would create a wider scope in which to put other kinds of material we were writing the band also decided to move away from working with Butch Vig who had produced Gish and Siamese dream and they selected mark Ellis. I also known as flood and Alan Moulder Co Producers Corgan explained quote to be completely honest. I think it was a situation where we become so close to butch that it started hard to work to our disadvantage. I just felt we had to force the situation sonically and take ourselves out of the normal pumpkin recording mode. I didn't want to repeat past bumpkin. Were Ellen Motor had helped make Siamese dream and at this point flood had already produced both pretty hate machine and broken by nineish nails depeche mode violator and songs of faith and devotion ocean as well as U Two's Achtung baby and zero to name a few with new producers came a new recording process in April nineteen ninety-five the band began recording rehearsal missile space instead of entering the recording studio straight away at these sessions the band boarded rough rhythm tracks with flood originally designed to create a rough draft for the album the hersal space sessions ended up yielding much of the new album's rhythm section parts flood also insisted the band set aside time each day devoted to jamming or songwriting practices actresses the band had never engaged in before recording sessions Corgan said quote working like that kept the whole process interesting kept from becoming a grind the band also used to recording rooms at the same time this the band to work on separate parts of the album at the same time for example flood and Corgan would work in one room as Moulder Hee haw and rescue worked in the second another departure from past albums was e Han risky recording their own guitar bass parts. He said the big changes that billy is not are being the big I do this do that. It's much better to band arranged. A lot of songs for this record in the songwriting process was organic circumstances of the last record and the way we worked really bad when the recording sessions concluded the band had fifty seven completed songs were up for contention to be included on melancholy songs of melancholy and the infinite sadness sadness are intended to hang together conceptually with two halves of the album representing day and night despite this Corcoran has rejected the term concept album to describe it and was at the time described as more loose and vague than the band's previous records however Corgan is also said that the album is based on the quote human condition of mortal sorrow Korea named the album's message people aged fourteen to twenty four years old hoping quote to sum up all the things that I felt as a youth but was never able to voice articulately uh-huh I'm waving goodbye to me the Review Mirror Tiger Nada run my youth and putting it under the bed all but two of the songs on the final album were written by Gordon the closing losing track from the first disc take me down and farewell good night both written by despite being credited on the album liner notes as being written by hand corden he also wrote additional songs during the making of the album but they did not make the final cut corden said in Nineteen ninety-five Rolling Stone interview quote. There's besides that James did that. Are Oh really good. They just don't fit in the context of the album and part of me feels bad but over the seven years we've worked together at least uptight part of the band has been the music the next time we will cover the release and aftermath of melancholy and the infinite sadness. I will be skipping the theory primer this time around is there isn't really anything that can't be handled in the course of the analysis process that being said it would take this opportunity to let you know that if you have any theory questions about this record or in either records we've covered or just generally. If you have questions about music theory. Please feel free to drop me a line on any of our social media outlets. I absolutely love talking about this stuff. So Siamese dream was an unmitigated success. The smashing Pumpkins went from the background of the art rock scene to the forefront and immediately became a vast influence on a whole generation of musicians. They had a sound all their own and it was a damn good one. So what could they do next. ext Billy had an answer more more songs more instruments more weird shit more everything and so the Pumpkins Pumpkin set out to make an album that was bigger and both scale and intention than anything they had done to date. Let's see how they fared. The album opens with the title track melancholy and the infinite sadness delicate piano driven instrumental it is mostly in a d flat mix Lydian scale leaning mostly major but with a slight minor poll the top of the scale to give it a bittersweet quality. This piano part is joined by some synthesized strings which lend a vintage imperfect heir to the song and the chords drift a bit out of the scale making news occasionally of an accord which although it's not in the key it provides one of the most emotionally charged changes within the song this short piece doesn't feel particularly grand or epic on its own but if we take a look at the structure of orchestral music it can give us some insight into the rest of the record to come many orchestral pieces such as operas and musicals will begin with a short instrumental piece known as an overture the overture is responsible for setting the tone of the rest to the show and to welcome viewers into its world this song by its very existence on this album. lets us know that the album has grand theatrical intentions and and that we should be ready for something a bit more than a traditional rock album and that leads us very nicely into our second track tonight tonight which realizes those grand intentions with an actual orchestra and a sweeping theatrical soundscape here we see seasons guitars are tuned one half step down the shapes that are played here belong to the key of g but as a result of the tuning change they sound in the key of g flat when guitarists do this we often will call the cord the by the name of the shape. We're playing rather than the resulting sound in this is for ease of communication that being said this does complicate things when dealing with a pianist or other orchestral musicians who will often stay in their standard tunings. Hey Brian what's the I corps. It's a jeep okay. Got It A. G.. I'm flat tuned. It's why didn't you say that anyhow for the the sake of this review I will treat it as it is in the key of G as that is most likely how billy James d'arcy were thinking of it. During the writing and recording of the parts the song starts with a comfortable and Saccharin Ron across the G minor courts allowing the orchestra to really take the front seat it then takes a turn through these C and D courts for this functions is a bit of foreshadowing or you might call it a <music> Motif as these records that will accompany the chorus later on then runs through a restrained diverse which centers around a C major seven chord in eighty six eleven chord. The second court is curious because the main notes are Digi and be which is just an inverted g chord but there's still functions more as a record and that's a feeling which is made stronger by the switch from this cord to a proper g at the end of the verse therefore I'm sticking with my coordinator which assumes that the F. Sharpen eight notes of the Chord are implied for context on this beautiful records name. The six refers to the be the six note from a d. and the eleven refers to the the eleventh note up from the beach. ooh The chorus is locomotive in nature pushing endlessly forward forward with a full head of steam Chamberlin's. Drum work is incredibly deft. The level of difficulty involved with this kind of snare work is not to be underestimated. It is genuinely athletic when compared to a more standard rock beat the second verse uses a different feel and different chord progression than the first saving being the first versus progression for the end of the second verse to create more of a sense of movement and variety in the second chorus. He actually cuts one section a bit short to deliver the choruses punchline for measures earlier than expected. These deviations are wonderful examples of strong songwriting and billy's knack for for making the familiar sound new so a lot of the language of musical terms comes from Italian. There's a couple of Italian musical words in a minute Godin explain Blaine here. There's Exceleron though and returned Donde or potentially a cello Rondo depending on how Italian you want to get an accelerate auto is when the music speeds up a retired Ondo is when the music slows down so here at the end of the song after a quiet pause. There's an orchestral retired Ondo Walk down to a lovely WLI E minor ad nine cord which is unexpectedly dark ending to this gorgeous track trek and now for a bit of a left turn with the playfully named Jelly belly wait. It's called Jelly belly but it sounds like this that what what the guitars are tuned in dropped B flat which as you might imagine is a lot like drop-dead but with everything a half step have flat. The intro is an all out assault from all parties. The whole song is built around quick riffing and the D. Flatt Mix Lydian scale. This is one of the most condensed tracks on the record wasting little time getting to its course in terms substructure. This may be the easiest song of the bunch short sweet and packs a punch standout moments included genuinely and themm chorus. This course includes includes another rock tactic that would be canonized shortly after this the octave walkup on the fourth line is borderline iconic and it's a wonderful moment of interplay between the vocals and the instruments the end also sees wonderful use of controlled chaos us in the form of a chromatic climb that goes for two metres longer than you'd expect to lead us into the Sola. This track does a wonderful job of presenting a pleasant song in an abrasive aesthetic perhaps more so than many of their other tracks next. We're treated to some relatively. Could we straightforward hard rock in the form of zero guitars are once again tuned a half step down meaning the E minership sound out in e flat minor again for the sake of simplicity. I will call them out in e minor. The opening riff plays as a C B and e e and then cycles through the available harmonica and low eastern the pre chorus makes use of the low string and high octave alternation billy has done so often before but never really in a minor scale which gives us a much stronger or metal bent. The chorus has a very sing along kind of quality ready to lyrics which weirdly reminds me very strongly of the British invasion bands like the kinks in all of the lead guitar work in this song is violently chaotic and often and discordant more noise than music but in the best way possible this one is also short short and sweet and lands on a simple powerful unaccompanied work with an unexpectedly jazzy turn we arrive at here is no why this one uses some more dense chords. I'll be it still with an old rock sound but this sort of elevates the a fairly simple verses of this song to a more sophisticated vibe adding to the surprising complexity is the occasional omission of two beats at the end of a section so that it starts. It's over a bit early. This happens pretty regularly throughout the song and if you're not really paying attention you won't notice it but it is a slick move. This one is also flat latte tuned and <hes> it's an e flat Lydian which we will refer to as Emek Selenium. The opening chord isn't a major seven chord award. It's technically outside of the scale with the G.. Sharper there should be g. for the mix of Lydian but the rest of the song is firmly in the scale so we'll call this g sharp note and accidental which is ironically the term for notes which are intentionally out of the scale during the verses this a major seven chord alternates with an e chord over the course of the song he uses just about every court available within the key and he's more or less up to his usual tricks. You know the dynamics are breathing the cords go on an adventure and that's pretty much it with the exception of an achingly delicate bridge section which holds olds on the Acorn for its duration now would be a good time to briefly discuss the plague cadence. This term refers to the movement from the fourth quarter of a key in this case as the A to the first court or route in this case the e the movement is the same which ends mini traditional hymns within Ahmen it is therefore also known as the amend cadence. This is a court movement that we as Western listeners are hard wired to respond to emotionally after spending the entire your bridge on the a he finally resolves the next section to an e chord which is made all the more satisfying by how long you waited on that the song gives us another Retard Ondo and which wraps up beautifully the next track begins with with a bold statement from billy the world is a damn bullet with butterfly wings as a dark brooding shooting piece which has a metal sound with a series of dramatic flair guitars are once again flat so our key of B flat minor will be called B minor <music>. The NEAT thing about this verse Guitar Riff is that he's holding a b power chord shape and then walking the Lono with his pointer finger through A. B. A. B. A. G. Not and at this movement in the baseline while the rest hold static is kind of like pedaling in reverse pedalling being something we've discussed previously where the base note holds and everything moves above it is the opposite of that but it builds tension in very much the same way continuously until the chorus comes bursting to life. The chorus is unique for its six measure figure is I discussed previously we are trained trained to hear music in groups of four so the chord progression starts with a very familiar be minor G. D. A. filling up that four chord expectation that we have but then it comes around with minor gene yeah that's adding an extra measure which allows some time for the lyrics start over without having to overlap themselves the the song proceeds in a comfortable repeating pop structure until we get to the clean quiet bridge bad age. This gentle section laws us into a false sense of security before billy screams seems the word cage in an Fuck you and Ode to no one starts with menacing guitars and while it is relatively calm there is an overwhelming sense of something about to explode again flat tuned we will call F minor as f sharp minor in the key is vaguely minor though billy does lean heavily on that major note in the melody. This is just for flavor as the rest of the track is pretty squarely early minor call a blues if you like when the track expands into its next section it's properly rocking. It leans very heavily into a syncopated riff in which circles around the F sharp minor chord it runs along a fairly simple structure turn della reaches a start stop rift which kicks all of the ass there is a strange section which slows down in tempo but just for a brief interlude Chung round of bumblebee mouth and before speeding backup to pens to the wall before a blistering solo hijack the whole song in and the chaos continues until we are again visited by the start stop ref which seems like it will end along with the Solo but then it gives us one more slap in the face and then a huge A._G.. Corps during out on let's talk about love well. I don't want to constantly compare songs to the previous artists we have covered. This is the most nine inch nails esque thing I've ever heard from billy and and perhaps that's not surprising given the production team on this record are a couple of nine inch nails production alums Alan moulder and flood this one has survived that I might describe abyss kinky and or dirty everything is behind some sort of filter or another whether it be the phaser that's on the guitars the distortion that's on the drums vocals. It's it's just greedy flat tuned once again. We are in G minor calling it g sharp minor. This one is fairly simple but has an interesting turn earn in the chorus where the first second and fourth lines start on a g sharp Meyer while the third line has the same progression but substitutes be court at the beginning providing a major turn which helps to soften the granular sound of the song now they don't follow that same pattern every time that they do it varies over the course of the song but that's sort of the basis of that particular idea the song ends with another Retard Dondo although I think this one may have been accomplished by digitally slowing it down based on the sound of everything sort of stretching gene breaking apart at the end now. I've got no way to verify that <hes> I know that at that point we had reached the advent of digital recording. I'm not sure if they were using it for this or not. However they accomplished it? They absolutely created a unique sound at least in terms of this album. The song sure is different. Uh and speaking of different. Let's go from the rainiest song on the album. The most crystalline you may be wondering if it's flat tuned and it is we will call e flat as <music> diverses mostly revolve around in e major seven chord with various harp sounds and synth textures creating a delicate dance. The chorus is brief but it provides us with minor turn to offset the sweetness. I mean this is smashing pumpkins after all and there's there's not much trickery present here this one is drenched in reverb and echo on an album which has been mostly dry and gritty it stands out as a beautiful deep cut on on the record. Now we traveled to the islands of Galapagos. This is another pretty track this time in the key of D just kidding. It's flat tuned twos really it's deflate but I don't care they're playing with these shapes of fuck aw off <hes> the opening riff alternates between De ad nine d major seven. It's his sweet sophisticated serene sound where it's basically one chord but it's really moving to a lot of gorgeous colorful area within that cord the verse alternates then in between a deity that play goal cadence remember when it goes back from G to D it's the Ford in the one and this gives it sort of a heavy reverent lilt read. It's still disliked beautiful song but there's there's something more going on here. The chorus is more fraught with emotion rolling through a B minor and f sharp minor in minor and G and it pointedly avoids the root note and that's applies way way way more tension it repeats repeats these sections and then there is a lovely section featuring a twin guitar lead but it's a much mellower context pumpkins usually provides us with twin leads that carries us into a fuller section with some gorgeous theatrical gorge they start off simply with the D and Oh gee very full key changes but right after that it takes a dramatic turn by in the last measure taking us through a b flat and a seat this briefly alters are scaled two d mix lydian flat six but it's it's so brief it's more of an accidental rather than an actual change to the key in any case. It's one of the best moments of the song the track quietly sees itself itself out wrapping up more or less where it started now for muzzle to come in and bring the energy backup. It's in a flat mixed Lydian but we'll call it a mixed Lydian for reasons which I hope are fairly obvious at this point point especially after the last couple of songs. This one feels very familiar normal in by billy standards. It is fairly simple simple. It isn't attempting to challenge but rather it seems to comfort even though it's a more aggressive song than those that preceded it feels more like home on on this record. I actually feel like it loses something by its placement within the album it's surrounded by interesting and odd sounds and by comparison. It almost feels kind of bland but I took this one. I spin out of context and it's a great song. It's full of feeling and very effective but there's nothing tricky going on here. It's more like here you sat through our more weird experimental stuff. Good job have a cookie and time to get weird to get poor Selena of the vast oceans. This is the track which is as sprawling as its titular oceans it starts off imperceptibly quiet as it reaches upward for a gentle beginning point it alternates between a ad nine chord in an e minor seven court by this point. You can assume that those are actually in a flat at nine signed a flat minor seven but I digress this puts you in a very vague sort of space not knowing whether to be major minor happy sad and it kind of keeps you guessing doing this builds steadily with some delightful symbol work from Chamberlain and various Sinton Guitar textures to supplement now this portion goes on for long enough to make you feel secure safe even and then the song yanks the rug out from underneath you here is possibly the biggest wall of guitar on this entire record riffing around on octaves and open strings as custom assume for a truly huge open record this hits with such impact because the quiet section from which it unexpectedly springs but honestly I think this riff would still sound fucking massive in any context after the rift based portion it walks up from an eight four to a secord. The plant is endemic solidified. The rift comes to an end holding on a g chord and we get to breathe for a bit the verse this carries through a kind of Pink Floyd Ask D. A. C. N.. G. Before tees up the atom bomb of course to explode back again and then it takes us through another floyd in section with a soaring but subdued solo laden with odd sounds and textures breath. We then take a gentler past diverse crash back into the course again kick it up one more notch for huge bridge and aggressively phased run of riffing guitars playing permutation of the court's Realm we then descended to a moving guitar altro which is Equal Parts Reeve urban feedback which washes over us as the song fades out. I usually hate one songs fade out rather than just end but this one feels pretty damn well earned lastly. We have a gem of a track written by the venerable James E hot. It is all fairly in green light without any real tricks. This one is all feel subtlety and atmosphere with different instrumentation this could be elite seventies love ballad but it is saved from that instinct by the prowess of the musicians. I love that they end. This half of the album was something so simple and pleasant and delicate so we we aren't even done with this album where fourteen tracks and we've got fourteen more to go and already. I think they've achieved their goal. This album is more more sonically diverse more grandiose more ambitious more carefully written written more obsessively arranged more unapologetically challenging. It is just plain more whether this album will sit sit more prominently in the hearts and minds of its listeners than say Siamese dream. It's really up to the listeners but this half of the album shows heart and skill in equal measure and I cannot wait to dig into the next half see next month gene so yeah that's <hes> that's Kinda how I feel about the first half this record but <hes> tyler. What do you think that we take a look at the songs yeah? Let's talk about the first song which is called melancholy and the infinite sadness so oh right out of the gate. I'm seeing some thematic cohesion with the album and I'm loving. It definitely got the name name brand they just. They just went right in for the Title I. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about. This is opening tracker. I love having an instrumental opener on record. I liked that as a feature and you know the kind of contrast of going from this directly into the next track. The strike is very fully orchestrated. This is very sparse and I understand that that that's kind of fun like it grows into the next song but yeah some of the string sample stuff is just almost almost a little too cheesy for me but I really liked the piano work on this one. I think it's <hes> puts me in mind like seventies yacht rock ballad like like yeah but like I in a good way so after coming after let's say if you listen to these and order like kind of what we've been doing thing you should do Siamese dream and then you put this on its this aunt. The next song are very different from from what we've seen so far the first albums so I'm much more soft more softer that's grammar much softer and sort of <hes> more focusing on the the melody and the beauty yeah and because this is a double album so they have more space to play with you know now you know we'll do. We'll do a longer intro credits. You know something like that. We got the time so yeah I enjoyed this for what it was. It's still I was listening to this. I was like all right but when do the smashing pumpkins come on yeah someone I'm ready for emerging for that band that I know from the last two albums uh-huh and I mean not not to like keep criticism on it or anything like that but it sort functions is a fun kitschy weird little intro. I almost just wanted it to be weirder more be more full. If that makes sense they sure does yeah yeah. There's no vocals that just kind of does the same thing through the whole song yeah but it's a pleasant thing that it does and it leads directly into well before we go to our poll goodness. We have liner notes. Yes we have liner notes for the two thousand twelve really astor where billy corgan hyphen gives us insights into all of the songs so the this how how many of the album's albums is he done this for. I don't want this to stop. This has turned into my favorite part. I need to double check but I think this is the last one awesome so he says nineteen ninety four I brought home a newfound relic a nineteen twenties piano that sounded somewhat Dole unsentimental to my ears having chosen sound what I also overlooked in the flat harps poorly mismatched legs far up in the front parlor of my fresh painted Lady Victoria and I hacked away believing that in doing so I was playing my part in a beautiful dream that now come true newly married and sitting out my mornings on on the sloping arc of the window bay reached out into a once grand boulevard keeping time with the sway of the dancing trees and this is how I taught myself to play my original instrument of choice by inventing small per titas. This little train was among the best that with the way that that's that's what he has to save the song. I think that one stayed salient much longer than most of the other ones on the previous ones ear your previous ones <hes> he does say also says that the about the name itself the melancholy sadness that you know is also the name of the album <hes> this ever curious name came about years before its necessity hatched as if it were hatched as it were as I walked about the rested grounds of Coney Island in what was embracing Spring Day Circa nineteen ninety one once received noted within auto hypnotic blurted out the line blurted out the title into the air hoping that by sharing it I would better call it's odd kanter later on there. We go so another one of those ones where he's just kind of pulling out of either. It's interesting that he refers to writing little partidos per titas. What is classical music term comes from the Italian okay so typically that was like a Taco typically? It's it's like a suite of music for <hes> <hes> for Solo instrument or so is the like <hes> Bach has like cello suites. Would you could call <hes> per titas and there's probably a good handful of recordings of one of my favorite musicians guy that Christie Lee playing a lot of Bach partisan mandolin title in so it's kind of in that vein it does kind of fit that classical music yeah which style it's certainly not <hes> violently complicated in passing notes the way that Bach sometimes is but like it. It's it's got a very correct sort of sound to it. Nothing's particularly challenging. He does kind of throw in some weird notes every once in a while just so you know it's Pumpkins right Khalil thrown a couple. It'd be like hey hey it's still me assuming billy Joel meme billy corks and now we can transition Shen eloquently into tonight tonight all right well <hes> I. I've got feelings about this one but tyler Thailand you go first so this is one. This is another single that I was very familiar with because of radio play and so so this is a great song I never I don't think I'd ever heard it with the melancholy and the offense sadness track preceding yeah so that was really cool just to go you go from this very beautiful song into the song this other very beautiful song that I very familiar with so it's kind of a cool like I never never seen the intro to the song so it's kind of cool yeah. I think they they almost work better as a unit. I love off tonight tonight. Not that that's not new. That's a great song but getting it that way with that buffer nice. I like that a lot yeah definitely annoy <hes>. Do you WanNa hear what billions to say. Yeah sure all right so designed from the get go as a MoD throwback tonight started out in a far lower lower key lacking then the time cut verses that became its most recognizable signposts. The tune lingered around the edges of a whole host of ideas until by chance I heard an orchestral fire fire in the making changes which in response made me only want to lift the key from tidy see to a proper and more epic g major it was suggested that we hire a proper arranger to make quite clear the mirrored song today with lay on its twin and that's how we came to spend four days of my life being told the quote for what classical types would and wouldn't play as written the string session itself was a heroin affair thirty foreigners on our rock and roll turf stuffed stuffed into the long wise expanse of two of two studio chambers. One Noble scruff pulled me aside and said. Did you write this stuff. It reminds me of mal smaller. lyrically there are few NAS cheap trick and yeats but the message I scrolled out was mine alone. Rare instinct honesty there we go. I actually caught portions of that on the lyric. Genius stuff comes up when you're listening to that song on spotify and I love I love that whole thing about the orchestra read because as much as he talks about them being foreign hers on on their rock and roll terror <hes> <hes> I've dealt with the handful of people who play classical and you try to bring them into play something a little more rock and roll and like as many of your rules is as they are breaking. You're you're breaking the same right there. There's there's plenty of things hard and fast things that you know they're. They're sort of taught not to do. You don't don't play parallel fifths Sierra de just these little maximums that we we don't really incorporate into rock and that's that's. That's where some really cool things happen when those two <hes> two worlds can mean absolutely because you end up getting the sound of rock and roll but with a different voice right the that that's the best way I can describe it. I guess it's just that yes. They are violins but they're not playing would've island would normally play right that that that sort of thing and that right that lens this song just a really really epic air and I love it. Yeah I mean other than Billy Corbin's vocals being on the track. This doesn't sound like anything that we've heard from smashing in Pumpkins. You know it's really cool yeah. It feels very much at a left field after Cherub rock rep rather fuck after Siamese dream. I'm just because that one was such a compressed rocker right. You know it's just like hey we're GONNA do renew a lot of rock songs and we're going to too soft ones and this is just something different something very energetic and very bright and almost happy in a six SORTA way almost <hes> lyrically doc about it seems like it's talking about giving up the youth that you had when you're as you grow older <hes> life can change that life can change that you're not stuck in vain and and then looking at the future with hope yeah so a bit bitter sweet but I'd I'd say you know definitely on the positive side <hes> there's there's one line in particular that <hes> stuck out of me and I think what's interesting interesting. This is one of the first songs from them where <hes> the lyrics did jump out at me more than just sort of blending with the instruments and the the line was was <hes> believe in the resolute urgency of now which is a day I feel torn about this us right because part of me is like okay you're writing this to sound cool and philosophical and interesting but he sings things so earnestly that I'm like well. Maybe you are cool and philosophical and interesting you bastard parts of do feel a little bit contrived but it really works in the context of the song very very well thank yeah. Did you have a chance to watch the music video for this did not. I heard that it was something to behold though it's it's pretty cool it's kind of like it's shot and kind of like a return century movie of the Black and white silent candidate yeah we're going to go the you know they get on their dirigible and they five to the moon in this the the couple get they jump out and they're tumbling and then they opened up their their umbrellas and they float down to the Earth but down on the moon and they meet like moon men and they get captured by them and they escape on another rocket. That's mysterious magically there but then when they get back to earth the crash in the ocean and then there's like underwater people and it's it's it's all silent film style. It's really cool yeah. I'm kind of thumbing through it on Youtube right now. Ars looks really cool. I've I've tried to watch all the videos for all the singles <hes> so far and a lot of them. Come at least the first two albums when the early on on they don't have very much of a budget they tend to look a little dated of like okay yeah. This is early nineties. <hes> just kind of how things are but this one seemed really timeless. Yeah intentionally cheap or intentionally will fi yeah so it kind of has timeless quality about it so I thought those were good yeah. I think it actually plays very well to be completely. Honest visit just from the bits that I just looked at I dig and billy's kind of smiling yeah yeah he almo- she almost looks happy. He doesn't look boy called Billy Gordon said boy. I did okay all right. Sorry Billy Yeah. I didn't necessarily mean sad boy in terms of spelling B. O. at the end but but so many of the songs epistles say I just remember Hashtag Brian not tire Brian Tyler and Garner for his back wh- When you when you when you send your I tell you to find me on twitter but I don't even know what my twitter handle is at this point well. Let's move onto jelly belly. Okay <hes> hard left. Turn like this is the smashing pumpkins that I'm used these two from the last two albums absolutely absolutely complete returned to form after after tonight tonight <hes> a little jarring for me really but <hes> I'm not necessarily mad about it. So <hes> billy says a nihilist manifesto thrown like a pink hand-grenade into an alley. I just went rode shotgun with the images at sketched out nicely the gray of my suburban years the original rift dates back into nineteen ninety-two where we spasmodically. We've played some of the concoction of the song as if there was nothing else to Jim in the third odd core to spice things up the machine gun bit was was added to chop up the monotony on the back end of the blues once we flipped the script bring to bring in the rat tat tat upfront this led to far more excitement and sped up tremendously a teutonic mousetrap emerged until there was a starship waiting without a single lyric or melody to accompany it into space okay so we're kind of back how much yeah how much made sense yeah it's the ratios reversed reverse from the last one for the first one he used he used up all of his clarity at the beginning absolutely in the instrument using his ass assistanct. Sorry guys like to start by apologising to our faithful listeners. I liked to make jokes about billy being hang on drugs and that's pretty fucked up from completely honest. Just don't expect the stop. I respect the man. Does yes yeah we. We do enjoy the band. Even if we poke poke fun things all right so yeah that's it. It's a it's a cool song. What's what I would consider to be classic pumpkins sound I I would I would say it's maybe just a touch more chaotic than in just about anything they have leading up to it? Specifically that intro Buddha jittered a bitter bitter to be able to do it. It moves so fast but it definitely feels on brand. I I do like the the last chorus has interesting breakaway from the previous lyrics going from your nowhere to see to your forever to be so kind of switch things up there those school <hes> Gordon wanted this to be the original for single so he was he said that <hes> bullet with butterfly wings which will die but later is was the obvious first single choice which is why he didn't WanNa. Do it sure you know in Pumpkin head. We don't really like Thing I came. I felt really close to jelly belly because it sounds to me like your classic Pumpkin Song from Third Album Yeah. It really fits that bill. Oh very very well like I don't. It's not to say that it's without challenge but I feel like it. It's a it's a comfort food on this album of that makes sense. It's it's the <hes> it's what you came here for all right. I WANNA move on two zero. Zero is pretty darned aggressive but it's got this is sort of almost happy. Kinda punk punky rhythm to it right like it doesn't sound that way but like the energy with which it moves forward is almost sort of bouncing and I find that Kinda interesting where it's it's <hes> you know the tone and the speed are sort of not normal pairing in it makes it kind of interesting. I dig yeah <hes>. I know that I've heard the song a lot before getting into this for this outfit is episode <hes> so this was one that I was like. Oh Oh sweet zero. I know this one. It's another. It's you know it's it in the same. KINDA zone zone as jelly belly so it's what I expected from special the Pumpkins. I will say that this one is a little bit more directly dark than some of some of their other stuff right leg a lot of times they <hes> add kind of pop a little major little minor in this one. They stay pretty pretty minor for the most part so it's like it's a little more straightforward rock and roll vaguely. Wrigley Metal Yeah which <hes> he actually did have a quote in Guitar World one point where he says <hes> we'll. We like to call the style of music cyber. Metal zero has six rhythm guitars to line in string acoustics plus those Wacky Jamesy see how leads <hes> tract tract live with overdubbed added later. This is a true mover as well as the first song that was recorded for melancholy. James has always said this reminds. James has said this always reminds him of Judas priest. Yeah I could see it. It's it's got the that that can crisp metal flavor. It's just been pumpkin. Pumpkin Lumpkin Space Metal Wade sorry no no. I wish it never said that out loud all right. Do we want to try and decode you. Get your decoder ring for this one. Yep Yup but think about it needs more whiskey before the one after that but I I've been stretching for the first time in my life. I had a room solely devoted to and nothing but the creative act into spartan emptiness. I placed a few rudimentary pieces of recording equipment. Sitting atop pat passed on had may handmade furniture. Nobody nobody in my family wanted. The ancestral code conveniently painted on its black decades before me the room had once been victim of fire and when it it was hot out you could still smell the charred timbers from their traced to demos made five minutes of one another the first bearing the opening mob with the difference difference second riff whilst toobin lacks the imbued menace of the first. I presented the complete architecture of the song to the band that following afternoon afternoon which happened to be twenty seventh birthday happy birthday. If one believes in myths and Unicorns I did not know then that I would become the the song and the song would become part of my assumed identity. Curiously I also find in the reflection devastating. I shot my bandmates. In amongst the carefully roughly sharpened lines one early indication that I was souring to what I saw fallaciously coming down the pike the toss submissive God is empty just like me brought God fearing and Hell loving out to hound me for years in various backstage parking lots trying their best to convert me to God and Savior. I was already sold on most seemed disappointed. I didn't put more of tenacious fight beyond my saying one layer does not make a man nor does show the depths of what he believes in his heart affiliate more that one made sense although some of it was veiled <hes> yeah so twenty seventh birthday if you believe in Unicorns and myths he's gotTa be referring to the twenty seven club. Oh yeah the Gobain Amy Wine House <hes> <hes> Jimi Hendrix Janice Joplin. Maybe a bunch of people who guide was it before. Twenty seven or at age aged twenty seven. I think it's I think it was in the twenty seven yeah. Yes yeah died at a young age twenty seven so maybe he thought he was pitching reaching the end. I don't know but I mean in light of the fact that <hes> just one one one year before the album came out or gay about a year and a half before the album came out is when cobain made his exit <hes> that there's some kind of prescient precious not the word but poignant about that yeah and this was written in two thousand twelve so you know he had that look we was. He's he's looking back. Oh yeah absolutely I go to bed a little cows store or something like that right after that happened but in retrospect or something to it and I did I did think it was interesting to have like the clarity clarity at the end there with the <hes> the gods empty just like me line <hes> so yeah I that that was much else was one of his more explanatory wander notes that one was actually pretty much chock full of stuff that was that was fairly useful informative. Thank you highly still entertaining reining in its own right though never changed billy yeah I.. I don't have much to add on that one others in it. It kicks ASS. You know it's it's a hard hitting song. Yeah I know that the whole this you know he would wear when he's playing live the teach the black T. shirt that says zero on I like this was a big reference big iconic thing for him yeah yeah the this song was very important to him and it's <hes> I guess the other thing yeah I can say about it is that this song is one that has really made its way into the arsenals of <hes> new and starting guitar players who WanNa play in this style L. because <hes> it's one that can be played physically pretty easily but as a cool sound <hes> that that whole opening riff is only played on just a low oh string <hes> mostly by basically dragging your hand down with varying levels of pressure <hes> so so it's it's it's <hes> you know a more advanced sounding riff. It is easier to play which makes it very inviting for for new and aspiring players so I mean I in the six years. I was teaching music lessons lessons this <hes> heavy rotation nice. I well we want to move onto here is no Y.. Yes yes so for whatever reason reminded of the band local h <hes> Song's called down to the floor. They don't sound like at all like this. This is sort of the slow major key version of that song the chords for whatever kind of remind me of each other. This one says it's got a bit of a Jazzy jazzy bent to it yeah. It's kind of fun to one so let's see here. You WanNa know doing us. Some liner notes yeah I do. I ever hear is no. Why's it called that well. The first line starts with the title was appropriated from an article. Yeah I read on the anniversary of the world's first nuclear attacks a survivor in surveying the legacy of near total destruction had remarked in broken English that here is no why <hes> looking at the twisted remnants of my own childhood memories. I felt a similar sense of loss amid my confusion to hide some of my S._R._O.'s. I- couched these thoughts in- into clammed up Tart that rings nether neither happy nor sad in some respects the song doesn't fit well amongst the others being too Maudlin for its own good and to strident for to take full advantage of its t rexy and Strut but like its author the death rock boy. It's most most glaring. Defects are part of its lingering charm. Yep teach referred to himself as the death rock boy. Yes yes of course sports. I mean of course <hes> interesting. The heroes know why that's that's not a quota before but we're Shema rightly idea like there's there's there aren't reasons here. It's just yeah. Yep and that's that's pretty heavy. Also <hes> I think the most coherent notes like the most informative like yeah straight up straight up like I mean the most ambiguous weird thing was the whole death rock boy and that was made very much sense to me that also felt remarkably tongue in cheek and I love it yeah that was great <hes> but yeah I in terms of like a theme and lyrics like I felt the song is about the grinding away <hes> in in the fame machine like makeup fades and loses sight of the dreams that they had at the beginning like it's just like why am I doing this kind of thing <hes> absolutely and I think there's a that that's a recurring theme throughout rock. Is You know eventually somebody will write a song about the strain and the people who write those songs really well received. Leave the the the love and pity of the audience the ones you write them. Poorly seem like okay well. What are you whining about and this. This is one of the ones it's written better. I think this one has some underpinnings of what would become indie later on with these sort of like jazzy or chords in this rockier context. Hey let's move onto bullet with butterfly wings. Now we had some talk last last episode about <hes> you know most recognizable sizable. Pumpkin Song <hes> and I was thinking Cherub rock today <hes> and I kind of forgot that this one was existed. I kinda yeah. I think this might be the one I think this might be the if you haven't heard any other smashing pumpkins on on the radio at other. B- This winter disarm probably I would say either this one or tonight right yeah. I think I think tonight tonight's. Maybe more in the accessible station sure kind of thia you can be easily played everywhere or more easily played everywhere but this is but the this is definitely prime mm smashing pumpkins yeah again like it. It's that same feeling from Jelly belly of like Oh yeah. This is what I signed up for. This is my mom this album right yeah that is why a paid extra for the double album and so I could hear him scream cage and I could feel tingling and there's a lot of bands cover this. There's I can't remember what trailer I just saw. F- <hes> there was like some cover. It's like a choir of this. You know cover yeah yeah. I love Epoca trailer versions of songs great. The original rats in your cage. Chorus was born of the boredom sitting around at one of those. I overly dry be sessions. The thump riff that opens the song a funny remnant of the first Siamese dream recordings there was a lot of Frankenstein concern parts laying about the night mix and match backup together <hes> back when my real job was trying not to forget my inspiration that might come in handy later all the way through ten or so months of writing this and making this album. I thought this tune was both powerful and stupid. I never really and I could never really we settle on set wants such opinion over the other. I would later be shocked when the record label announced that the song was to be their choice for the first single. I had to be talked into letting this happen happen by one Cigar Chomping C._E._o.. Who declared brazenly over the phone kid. It's a smash. The songs tune the songs true message had had grown on me over the over the years as I find it to be withering attack on the lameness of fame who could have known then that the Gloria fame would would be even more important and ever-present commodity in the twenty first century with than it was in the face of the last interesting. Can't it does smash here. It's it's it's <hes> that's so Hollywood. I fucking love it. I mean did this is as for me. This is kind of billy doing what he does best right. This is this is the pumpkins basically taken a relatively standard hard rock song formula a familiar record progression and just making it all just weird enough right just just making small changes to it to Kinda shuffle it up and you're like wow this is something and new I didn't. I didn't think they were GONNA go there. <hes> and you know it. It's I try to approach all of the analysis analysis on these songs from the the scope of not having heard them and with the song like this hard because I've heard it a million times but if you try to listen to their new year's in like an filter it through you've expectations at the radio has given you. It's actually fairly surprising song. It's a it's a good tune yeah yeah so it's a great song. I don't know where to go. How we tend take a look at the next song which I'm trying to forgive all right. So how did it all start with the liners yeah. Let's let's hear. B._B._C.'s say the the Charitable Act of forgiveness is made scarce mention of but in that itself really stands as a lie. There's really nothing there's really nothing and no one can be forgiven in the solemn halls of this song. It's more so Asong of condemnation the greatest which is reserved for the hand that writes it who despite knowing better will carry the same destructive patterns as he learned his in his in youth into his own unnatural adult life. This is the kind effort one only needs to make but once and once is more than enough <hes> it's kind of a unique topic to it kind of run into on a rock album. You don't don't usually get especially especially that right after despite on my rage I'm still disarray it. I'm sure that juxtaposition position was very intentional is like. Oh yeah well here. Let's let's change up the tone and the message <hes>. I do like the sound of the song there's parts of it that kind of remind me of the mortality bits of pink floyd <hes> yeah. I mean it's not quite what is like bombastic and <hes> you know showy as all of that but it but it reminds me of some of their better song slakes of some of their good songwriting parts of their songs rather than the good musicianship parts of their songs yeah yeah for sure <hes> yeah. I really like this one. <hes> you know mellow but still it feels very auto buyout auto auto biographical yeah. I feel like the deletes. Don't feel so opaque yeah cool well. Let's move on onto an Ode to no one once upon a time titled Fuck. You ever leave. Yes that was the first thing is going to mention that <hes> originally is is called fuck you a note to no one and the recent reissues have reverted that title back into circulation regulation doing the Lord's work. Thank you reissues. Thank you for giving me my swears by AC <hes> so in Nineteen ninety-five Corden was asked <hes> by rolling stone what who the song was directed towards and he said the basic thing is fuck everybody. It's that feeling that no one understands who the fuck are my friends. Fuck you fuck everybody. Fuck everything getting just pure frustration. The makes me like it even more yeah so lab. That's where that's really. The title comes from my thing Yeah I.. I don't feel like there's any mystery there at this point that that that's great I it's to no one and also to everyone. That's that's just that's fun. <hes> I think musically <hes> this one cannot gets me in mind of like a appro. Muse if make sense like there's there's bits of this sort of reminded me of like a more grisly version of like nights aside Tonia yeah. I didn't maketheconnection now until now but yeah that really work yeah so maybe Mad Bellamy does <hes> owes billy corgan something for that but yeah it's it's. It's is <hes> theatrical and sort of the action movie kind of way not in the show tune kind of way that somebody like that big endings on Siamese dream or <hes> yeah <hes>. Do you WanNa do you WanNa talk about. The Solo is pretty big in this from what I've in reading so <hes> say. I've said she asked the question <hes> t- tell me what you've heard about solo well. I have a quote about it but <hes> so yeah he billy says <hes> for the Solo in fuck you know to no one. I played until my fingers saw blood. You can't play a week Qatar so such a repulsive song doc so it's got to be a tax style. <hes> explains this method by saying. I put on the headphones and stand one foot away from the amp. Turn turned the amp up so loud that literally have to play harder than the feedback because if I stop playing for an instant the whole thing explodes Yep <music> so it's very much chaos solo <hes> like his his technique is there's notes election is shockingly good for how much he's wrestling with <hes> <hes> wrestling with the feedback and also just kinda keeping moving as fast as you can <hes> it's it's all these you know hammer on pull off kind of deals that ended edited end that he he takes that move moves all over the place with it. It's funny that that specific movement that he's doing. They're <hes> when I you did the Guitar Solos for theme song for the season. I do that move at probably about thirty percent of the speed that he does it there right. You know there's definitely effortless virtuosity on display. There's madness and genius that equal parts do want to hear the lender notes <hes> yeah absolutely and jostling slink for attention in an era where the pet out front often dominated the focus of our evenings music heavy songs were a must to both keep control the crowd in short bursts of regulated energy the more we traveled the heavier. We got the heavier. We got the bigger. The audience grew intelligence. Just is this monster tipping over into one safe places. Where chaos wasn't something you just went into the city and did only later forget about it in the safety of your your room like the circus coming to town? We brought with us all the shadow elephants into the room asking if they dance. Nice nightly for the amusement of all songs like this road the razor's edge between nascent data attraction and violence the blood of a spit lip tastes good in your mouth. It took us forever to find an harness harness this kind of raw power but once located and applied it had this effect of separating the shades of each night into different radical. Hughes <hes> well I mean I I definitely think the so for me. Jelly belly was one of the the heaviest ones I'd heard from them up to this point. We're talking chronologically <hes> but that was much more like sort of Punky in chaotic especially with that intro like this this one is <hes> I'd say similarly heavy but but it's got a certain precision to it. I like that quote Marietta about like you know intense regulated burst of energy or whatever that was that's quite quite apt but yeah this song kicks ass and I love that continues to end. It has four endings but yeah more more and yet again again again all right you want to move onto the next song of this one. This is weird one. I mean pretty much the entirety the guitar tracks running through a phasers or like the whole thing sounds like you're kind of in a barrel that I mean. It's a very intentional choice. This is the one that to me feels the most nineties. If that makes sense okay eh and I'm not necessarily talking about nineties rock so much as nineties pop chair. No I get that. It's I think garbage yes. It sounds very much like garbage. Which I think still came much later but yeah this is. The sound reminds me of garbage yet. I I was also thinking of garbage as well and I mean there's the connection there with the with butch with Butch Vig but but she didn't do this out. No I know he didn't <hes> I have no idea who did it all I.. It doesn't sound like Bush did it but he did the last two with them. We'll Brian if you were listening during my history segments that are just drinking flood and Alan shoulder okay so in that case we're seeing some production overlap from nine inch nails which makes sense to why this one also gave me some nine inch nails. It's so yeah. Stu We have because flood had already done pretty hate machine and at this point if you want to hear more about those albums you should check out our first series on nineish shameless all right <hes> so wider notes a straight up blues where I Moan and Groan about the confusing complexities of L. O. V. E.. Whenever sex's applied applied as cause and effect <hes> the word love is used low here for if in being lucky and used slowly enough love to becomes in a useful device in the high arts of illumination straight up the song rocked by smearing the voice and cyber fee fixing the drums it takes on a mocking looking tone that distracts from the very real fear hidden in Vagina Dente. Love represented here is both oppressive in an inescapable in unrelenting God that won't let go until you are spent and hollowed. Oh U._T.. The Vagina dente thing was just literally to just put it in his own love it. I'm sure he's using it as a metaphor for like the dangers of sex Radiata you did you get bit by it right. You're you're in there for a good time but then you get cut in your fields after and all that kind of deal now. It's a two edged sword. Virginia didn't auto being Latin for toothed vagina yeah that was that's something I'm need to remove from my google search. Just do me a favor overmanned. Don't ever <hes> don't ever watch the film. Teeth Okay I.. I'm good he that warning. Did you have anything to say about this the song or the Leonard <hes> anything else I mean he's definitely waxing a little more poetic in these lining liner notes in the previous ones on this record but that's okay you know it's a bit of a return to form <hes> and I feel delake. I really appreciate getting those weird. You know kind of more. <hes> you know nebulous ones ones that he puts out they do provide a little bit of context for the lyrics and I find that so often I am listening so much more closely to the instruments with this band lyrics and so it's nice to kind of get that extra layer of just sort of context and meaning yeah yeah. I mean this this one. It's I think he's actually responded to. It pretty spot on. It's a it's a blue song. Just Kinda gone wrong all right next. We have Cupido Walk Holy Shit. We're this come from yeah. This is is this the most UN pumpkins astral. It stays major for pretty much the whole song. It's gorgeous. Vocals are clearly intelligible yeah. I none of that is what I signed up for. I it's kind of maybe hinted at in in <hes> the opening track and yeah tonight tonight tonight but but at that point I was not expensive in songs to forget it right want yeah. It's been seven tracks since we had the list pretty one that wasn't day to forgive which was still dark ballad. The district comes out of nowhere. It's bright and magical agile and full of those myths and Unicorns he was talking about when he turned twenty seven. Yeah it's <hes> so the title is a reference to Matthew walk walk eight English Baroque composer during the seventeenth century who wrote a score to a a mosque entitled Cupid and death which is as a story about cupid and death getting their arrows mixed up and causing great distress and humor to ensue which is pretty way. If you listen to lyrics is pretty much. Schmidt's yeah yeah <hes> we in the wider notes. Let's see to counterbalance are many dark excursions into the void need. I sought out I sought some refuge by writing whimsically as well finding solace in twirling parasols and the extent lingering passions of the bell. Oh a book of his held the ideal driven up high above a nasty world that held glorious in places of unmistakable faith in a rare fire fit of fun. We even recorded whispering Aerosol Cans and Hoti rusted scissor steps to build up an unusual kaleidoscope of course I around the semi chromatic. We's of the sense that was a long sentence. Sure was not a notice played by a human as it were being being each part fed through a failing of mystery boxes which win twisted and turned just right spit back out a different set of warbles than the funny marbles calls. Do you put in in humble nod to Elvis. There's even a spoken poem of dedication that Wiltz out out on the Gallup for I couldn't help myself but rap fully in a in the cloak of a sincere innocent lover well that dead had both that had that had the Whimsey and the information. I love that about them. I'm using aerosol cans and the scissors to build up the percussion. I didn't even realize feeding type that I started immediately scanning through the song on the air but look where are they were. Are there picking them up toward the end really cool but also classic belly. Ah Okay quick thing yeah if you say that you're making a humble nod to something. Does that make you doesn't it take away from the humility of it. If you mentioned how how humble you are <hes> I mean in in the words of the Great Weird Al Yankovic. You think you're really humble. You think your pure of art will anoma million times as humble. Humble is now art perfect no reason to leave that in the show yeah yeah. I I think that that Sorta back battles it but I think I mean of course when he saying it that way. I think he's sort of phrasing it as a thank you to to the influence. It's okay billy. It's mixed bag. I Dunno okay well. Next song is go up across us so we have ourselves another ballot another one that gives me some more pink floyd vibes actually yeah it floyd intensifies here. So you want to know what billy has to say in the liner notes. I yes just say no. Please say no so. I don't have to read it tyler vivid detail. Okay people listen to this podcast for vivid detail. God Damn it look I get it. We have this episode this month in the next month and then we won't have anymore reissue into notes so we'll milk these. We can get all right. I cannot recall what it was about. Darwin's fabled set of violence. That turned led me to associate my crumbling marriage urge to him. Perhaps I was wondering if you're of a total and disconnected isolation. We might better survive the onslaught vice life's ceaseless progress progress idolizing a failed romance can only get you so far and once engaged I found out somewhere between my idealism and natural compassion for identity. I identified other there lived a truth. I was not yet willing to swallow about myself. I swear he must like invoice dictate. These are something or no. He typed his out because you can't say you can't talk. It's like George Hansel Harrison Ford Tone George Lucas. You can write this stuff but you can't say here's the one thing I will say I mean I think you're right but at the same time I think billy talks talk this way. I think he absolutely this way. I've seen very limited interviews with when he's talking about all of his Guitars Tarzan that interview for the recording Siamese dream and he's like in whereas the Happy Guitar Oh it's this one right here brings joy to a good many people. You're like this es poetic man. It's run on sentences that have to gird regurgitate agitate but there's more oh coming down Mogollon okay all right queue up my admitting here that one of us this is about to be abandoned. Never rising desertion would flow both ways galapagos stands up over time as a remnant of grace that that I lost as I wrote it <hes> that's a that's a pretty powerful line to end on yeah almost like he was exchanging engrace to make the make the piece of art well <hes> yeah. That's that's quite a notion <hes> yeah but <hes> there's down. There's something about the way he sings this. It feels very genuine and very personal. It's also very unadorned right right like the the the way that it's produced. It's very dry very naked in <hes>. He's not pushing. He's not pushing real the vocals. He's just he's there to get the notes out for you to feel what he's feeling a works. It's a tremendously effective song of the of the two ballottee ones that we've run into the thus far favourite ballad yeah I think so I think I agree. I do like to forgive but I prefer the song it's also gets some interesting testing like elements from songs that are heavier then it right. You know it's got that little twin lead break towards like the you know the two third third dead yeah all the way into the song and you know I it's again repurposing things that you're used to in one context and spinning him. I just I'm here for that all right. Let's move on to muzzle. It's kind of a return to form for what the album was earlier yeah I I also see this. One is probably one of the most Siamese dream e yeah tracks on there yeah <hes> it. It feels like it would be very much at home. There aren't as a matter of fact I wouldn't be surprised if it was written during that batch of songs. I don't know if he perhaps elucidates says in the liner notes good well. He says well first of all just to answer that question no it doesn't say that it was during Siamese but <hes> written i Britain I on the piano in my crude lennon ish tinker toy style this song possibly more than any other in the collection demonstrates the power of old band collective active to convert up ideas rapidly from doleful sea shanties to epic rockets. It took me nearly a month to convince Jimmy to play play with such joyful abandoned his fills and I cited the great big star as an example where playing loose doesn't necessarily mean playing poor what he this notion ocean opened up to a whole new galaxy to Jimmy's drumming where emotional expressionism took priority vaunted technical precision <hes> somewhere we're in my mind I was thinking of bobby repeating the core themes of a variation at the end but his leftover of memory is a leftover memory of of a clever song device from a source can never recall the idea of muzzle refers to thinking of my life would be far simpler if I kept my trap shut well. I mean that that's a deeply relatable feeling I mean did this. One feels formative. I feel like a lot of nineties all rock really <hes> more the old pop stuff not the stuff you would hear Auden Sacramento terms one of six five versus one hundred point five when we were going up <hes> God that's specific for our listeners anyway anyway there was a hard rock alternative station and sort of an alternative pop rock station and this seems to be much more in that in that other direction there and then there's a lot of stuff happening concurrently with this <hes> that was in that vein but this was short of a better executed version of like I said I think this is is a good kind of return to what the style that we were listening to earlier. <hes> I do like the ICARUS reference with I knew exactly where I was. I knew the meaning of it all aw I knew the distance to the Sun <hes> and I love that because he does everything but say it yeah. It's just a little hint of what it what what what he's talking about not saying directly directly. I don't know why I don't know why but I always love me a good acre assiduously it in so often those references and a being using the name or saying flew you too close to the side of that particular he skirted around. It and I respect that hard right. Do you have anything else for this. No NO MUSLIM GIGA I've been trying ran so next we have poor Selena of the vast oceans so <hes> this one we got a nice long like three minute intro before we get to the actual song kind of but it's leaving that muzzle sound at first but but then it just starts ripping into Oh yeah I mean th th this is another one I use the phrase ghetto kool-aid manning through the wall on the less technical analysis this does that you're so calm and then all the sudden fucking bombing you want to try out these liner notes. You know what I'm the little terrified because this is nine plus minute songs from. I'm assuming it's a small novel but let's hit it all right on a first two albums. We've grown accustomed to the benefit of playing many songs live long before they had been crystallized on tape once stuck in the gut of so many ideas I suggested we consider playing a few hometown shows to hammer out some kinks as well as forced the dubious pretenders among us into the light <hes> this made plenty of sense to everyone save for the fact that very few view of the fifty plus songs we were working on at any given time had any true lyrics by which I might sing in a show only seventy two hours before the first of four plan such dates I found myself with about four hundred lines to fill and very little idea of what I might want to say if indeed I wanted to say anything anything at all a race my way through various spiral notebooks compiling a sort of master syllabus of lines and fragmented poems that I jotted down mound through my travels what came out in haste was a sort of running screed where common ideas spilled over one another until I wasn't sure what any of the the songs were really about a key ended up keeping most of what had scrawled in that moment of compression and pressure and you can see that most clearly in a song poor Selena we're vague allusions lesions and to the mythic tides and sinking ship seemed to be only enhanced the unconscious feelings within Carl Carl young would be proud as much as I want at every line of every song to be perfect. There's something perfect about not fussing over everything too much wedding synchronicity via teacher and guide to the stars was so here all all respond to that as somebody who also write songs. I feel challenged reached by that. I feel like I'm being called out because I always over simply way too hard personally attacked. That's the phrase yeah becau because it's really easy to want to make sure that absolutely everything is inch perfect because for the most part <hes> the lyrics or whatever one's GonNa remember more than anything but with the band and like this where the instrumentalists are so damn good that often time the vocals take a back seat then yeah I think I remember more special pumpkin sound the instruments then I do. I feel like that's true just about anybody I know who was really spent some time with the band that they never really thought about the lyrics are just there's like Oh. I love this song yeah. That's it you know I absolutely love the journey that this song goes on it covers so much ground in this is falling into a rather tired cliche Brian Liking the longest song and the smashing pumpkins album but but I will say that this one is my favorite it it's so so deeply interesting and it's so varied <hes> but it does follow sort of with me structure easiest doing the stuff that I like it best when he does I think I I totally see that especially pumpkins something about them. If you give them ten minutes they will take you on a journey every on on a single track and I don't know what other there's very few other bands. I think that can do that well. I mean it's or we try to do just so hard to hold attention for that long and they make it sound easy yeah yeah so yeah go smashing pumpkins billy and then I believe this takes us to the last song on this half of the record. Yes yes take down my my main notes that I wrote for this is James. E hough can sing Jamesy housing yes. I have to ask when you type that. Did you say S. I.. N. G. A. or G. H.. S. I. N. G. H. A.. I'm pretty sure that's a beer from Thailand. I'm I'm doing it right now. It's a beer it's a beer from from <hes> somewhere Thailand yeah so yeah but yeah he can. It actually really loved that he's doing that. <hes> I was worried that <hes> billy wasn't ever going to let anybody else. Take another step after Darcy saying daydream at the end of each yeah but this it's just it's especially on an album of this sort of depth and breadth. It's really refreshing to have another voice in their James has a much like kind of pure tone. It fits the sweet nature of the song you know Sonnen Way and he did write this one not just singing so you I want to hear what billy has to say about somebody. Else's saw of this should be interesting. He has to tell all right so with seven years in on the band James had expressed interest in singing his own songs rather than just contribute ideas which might help develop into my own. There's real enthusiasm and support around him in hopes they might charge his own path as a singer songwriter as long as as long as what he brought to the band was strong. Take me down was attuned. I personally felt worthy of inclusion from the stark but in the process of fleshing out it's varying ideas the rest of us became moribund on a dreary. I'll it's fair to say that there are many songs and melancholy that are not banned hand efforts per se where in pursuing a particular feeling I wanted my singular ideas included as part of the work as a greater whole in the end of take me down became came a different kind of soul effort because James would not allow his song to be transmitted from its primary colors by the band and we did work on it endlessly as a group. Perhaps perhaps spending more time on this than any other studio as such. When we finished the album I sequenced it towards the end of record one because they medically fit in nowhere I could find although sonically drowsiness had echoes elsewhere? Jim saw the demotion of his favourite track to the back of the line as an unforgivable slight killing his desire to contribute to the band as a writer of note from that moment on well. I mean that's <hes> that's rather telling you know <hes> the dynamics of being an song with the more than one person who writes it's a it's a difficult thing <hes> and that's sort of the situation with the band planned. There's two primary songwriters I have <hes> you know chipped in lyrics for one song <hes> and it's it's not a song that's <hes> you know a singular you know rather important wanted the album. I don't see it as slight. <hes> you know we had space to fill in the album and I was like well see medically. We're trying to do this so all right this but I can feel how that would be. Perhaps frustrating for James. He's being in his shadow. You now especially being as talented as is you know but yeah the the dynamics of that when there's been primarily one sit one singer-songwriter <hes> <hes> and then someone else's in the mix <hes> within the same group it can be a very very awkward fatal thing for a band and I know that <hes> for a totally different way different band dad when Dave Grohl joined Nirvana he had already been writing songs and playing guitar on his own and it took them a long time to to even approach Kirk cobain with a K.. I have a song because he didn't want to be He. He didn't want to be that stereotypical drummer. WHO's like hey guys? I've got a song also known as what is the last thing drummer says in a band. Hey guys try. Try One of mine yeah so tell you I think that's a pretty common thing being a second or third songwriter writer in a band that already has established songwriters that being said I think it's a lovely song next sedate ending to the first half of the record yeah yeah I really enjoyed it. I thought it was great. I really in the vein of daydream yeah. Do you want to talk about this half or this this album or half of an album as a whole dive into that at all I think it's worth discussing this as a unit by itself before we do that in the context of the full album in the in the next episode <hes> I feel like this is their if we're treating this as one album here at this this first half as zone album probably their most click released to date very very easily so there there's some things I absolutely love about the songwriting on the heavier songs. Thanks I <hes> I Miss Butch vig production. I miss the Punchy clarity of his production. Some of this is a little more chaotic and that's not to say it sounds sounds bad. It's just did they had a little bit of a consistent sound that I was really digging and then this one's it's a little bit darker and it works. Just I'm personally having a hard time emotionally moving on Siamese dream okay. I do think that I think I enjoy a Siamese dream more still but I do you really like this this sequence or the these fourteen songs in this order <hes> I think it's kind of a a step in maturing mhm <hes> either in whether it's the the lyrics or the instrumentals it sounds it sounds like a more mature band than what we got inside Miester yeah and so I think if you had to make this its own standalone album. I think it could work and I would enjoy it as the whole yeah with being half of an album that makes sense but I mean Siamese dream feels more complete to me than this first half does and I do agree with you I think in general I like Siamese time eastern better than this at least this first half of the album but I will say that some of the stuff on here like <hes> personally and I keep it to lock so busy like weird or soccer more cerebral cerebral stuff is like some of my favorite stuff that I've heard from him to date. Both of those songs absolutely knocked me on my ass yeah especially how different they were from what we expect a yeah <hes> I really have tried to not listen to too much of the next half and until we recorded this so I'm kind of I'm really looking forward to doing that now and seeing what the second half has in store yeah he too but <hes> before we wrap up everything we have a a few <hes> listener some listener feedback <hes> the first one comes from read it <hes>. I'm going to try and say their name to give credit way five W. A. I. F. I v. e.. From read it and they say maybe considering giving Zwane a quick overview like he did with Pisces iscariot which as Dwayne his side band for Billy Corgan that will be coming soon ab- in they also say eh what about the two big singles that weren't on any album drown and the end is the beginning is the end from the Batman and Robin Urban Soundtrack <hes> I understand if you want to stick to albums as a rule but I suppose you're already passed well past drown. Well then never mind then <hes> give it a listen listen. It's a fan favourite and important formative song and and it was the one song Corgan was hoping he wouldn't have to move off of Gish when Cameron Cameron Cope approached him about putting a smashing pumpkins song on the single soundtrack on there we go well. I personally have not heard drowns. I'll have to <hes> NAFTA listen to that. I know the next episode it's on the rotten apples <hes> best of great sits so I know I heard it and was heard I played the the <hes> the track after reading that I was like Oh yeah I knew the song it's a really good song. It's yes from the Gish era but it's feels more mature like it feels like it could be Siamese dream like that one step shore more mature rugged song. Il I'll put it in the show notes so Brian can listen to it on his own time aches and then so the beginning the end is the beginning of the end. Yes the song that I can never say correctly. This is one that I has been on my ipod for this is from the Batman and Robin Soundtrack. It is a Batman Murray. It is an Batman movie that <hes> yeah. I like the song I I'm one of the people who actually likes the remix version data shows up in the watchman soundtrack Iran which I believe is actually called the beginning is the end is the beginning when it's relaxed which is probably why I'm always makes mixed up on everything but both versions of songs agreements and we're in this does technically happen after <hes> melancholy but <hes> we we wanted to talk about it now now because we're not gonna be able to get to it if we try and save it for next next next month. It's going to be so so much base. Could it be such a long up. Put on your ipods. Everybody absolutely for this one. Though for the the end is the beginning of the end <hes> my main we note on this one is that this is them. <hes> Kinda using spooky sounds in terms of which notes that they're picking probably for one of the first times ever because boasted what they're doing lies very well within functional harmony. Maybe they're switching to like you know a different key or a different scale or something like that and this one they're potentially rather they're intentionally using some notes that are nasty just for the effect <hes> and I love that it's it's <hes> it's quite a bit having sort of a polished polished poppy driving sort of little to it. Underpinnings of it are probably some of the most like dark medley kind of sounds that they've got going on beneath it so so it's sort of a wolf in sheep's clothing I enjoy that so <hes> we did receive a <hes> a comment on our comb response facebook for anonymity purposes. We will <hes> omit your name but thank you very much for your comment. <hes> the common says I love how diverse the song styles are personally the music videos that spawned from the album especially tonight tonight and thirty eighty three were so gorgeous and game changing. They both stand the test of time Tyler <hes> we I mean we haven't gotten to thirty three ad so I guess that gives me some time to kind of. Watch the videos for the singles before next week but I mean I I definitely agree with the general sentiment there. One of the one of the strong points of this record is how eclectic it it is <hes> Sam thank you for your comment and feel weird you by name but anonymity all right <hes> I did did <HES> for that same <hes> post on that we put on twitter <hes> we got a response from the another podcast pod like a whole who <hes> needed to really <hes> they did their own <hes> nine shales series and are currently doing a David Bowie series. Oh Yeah if you WANNA check check them out but <hes> so they said <hes> I saw them wife for the tour when they played played nineteen seventy nine and they played Biro outtakes from the excellent music video on the projector behind them so that was kind of their their favorite aspects of the album why you know we'll obviously we'll get to that song next week but that that's a masterpiece in its own right. We'll we'll we'll get there but <hes> do want to. I'd say a quick <hes> Howdy and thank you to <hes> is they have put it our neighbors across the street in pod like a whole `nother another music podcast podcast that we're happy to be shared airwaves with all right <hes> so this is the part of the show where as we're wrapping up we kinda mention <hes> maybe an album or something that we've been listening to that isn't smashing pumpkins but like it's something that we've been listening to or maybe connects to this album's in some way <hes> Brian what's on your ten-year-old recommendation list okay so I've I've got a habit of recommending things that aren't like like necessarily super dramatically or stylistically in line with what what our source material is for the week which is fine that that's something I plan to continue. I'd like to recommend this. This is going to be a bit of deja Vu here. The most recent album from the national national. I recommended <hes> their previous album at some point early in the nine snail series that we did but they just came out with a new one like five days ago and it is called. I'm easy to find it is a very very unique album. The instrumentation nation is not at all but I was expecting in this is abandoned primarily had one one vocalist <hes> for its entire you know career and <hes> they have a lot of female vocalists come in and sing with him over the course of this record oftentimes taking songs almost alter their own where you're where he he is putting a lot of effort into the writing writing of the songs but sort of letting other voices that perhaps suit the tone of the story better <hes> letting them <hes> and it's it's a weird one. There's a couple a couple of songs that I don't like as much as some of the others but that that's kind of been my experience variance with this band is that <hes> upon I listen to a new record I'm not a huge fan of it and then it just closets away into my brain becomes a favourite so oh you had me at. It's a weird wonder so yeah. I'll check it out so you're yours was completely different thematically likely from what we're talking about with <hes> melancholy but I decided to go with <hes> one of my favorite double albums. Is you in your your honor by through fighters Talia. It's a great basically they had. There's two sides I side is all the rock songs the loud and in your face and the second half is just acoustic songs and they're not completely different songs. It's two different is not acoustic versions of the songs from from from the first radio absolutely yeah. It's yeah so it's <hes> if you like allowed to fighters. This is your album. If you like quiet mellow foo fighters riders this is your album and the drummer sings one Taylor gets to sing one song on this record and it's a fun one. Yes and that's one of my favorite songs by yeah all second yeah so one thing that I do want to mention is in our show notes. I've been putting the last episode I start putting Amazon affiliate links to some of the stuff we talk about whether it's the the main album you know melanie melancholy or <hes> the bands that we recommend in these the section here <hes> but it's a it's kind of a way to support us you can either if you can either go to patriotic and do kind of like a monthly subscription thing where you throw us a dollar or even if you just go in and click on these links you can either buy by the album that we talked about. That's in the link or I guess there's even it'll track you if you allow it so where if you just do your normal Amazon Shopping Ping you go through our Lincoln Your Normal Amazon shopping <hes> you don't pay anything extra but it gives us a little kickback so that would be a cool way to help help us out that doesn't cost you anything if you are if you are already using Amazon so I mean that that does help us to be able to do eventually over time to be able to invest back into the podcast and and hopefully offer you even more as a listener if you want to get a hold of us and send us some cool messages about when you think about things that we talked about you can email us discover fers at gmail.com. You can find us on on <hes> twitter at at discover we have facebook dot com slash discography irs soundcloud dot com slash the dash discography first and then like what like I mentioned earlier if you want to throw us a few dollars <hes> once a month Patriot dot com slash discography offers and <hes> just as as a reminder <hes> on Patriot we made an offer for Tyler to review a sandwich well. I do an Acapella cover of a techno techno song and that is something that only that new donor will get access to think of all you're missing and they were also doing this thing where I need outtara music to end the podcast with so <hes> if you WanNa have your music played you can send send me your stuff your email me something and <hes> I will probably play it right now. I don't know what I'm GONNA play next month episode so we'd be kind of cool if we if we had something lined up the music for this month is future go stories by the artist EXC- and you can check out the link in the show notes check out the rest of their stuff. There's a lot of real good music there so everybody yeah but good one thing is now gone by now. Woah it's on or at least with now.

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The Smashing Pumpkins - Chapter 5: Adore

The Discographers

2:52:00 hr | 11 months ago

The Smashing Pumpkins - Chapter 5: Adore

"I think when you're young you know everything's fine so fast. You don't realize you're doing magical things how actually magical they are. We're literally d._i._y. Musicians who wrote around donovan and this is the music we choose to play and somehow it wasn't indian for it wasn't cool enough and that steal us to be completely completely contrary and unit. I had no expectations other than brutal. Honestly that's the way we are with music. He gets the same from us that we get from hymns tmz you know the litmus test doesn't change and number two in the nineties and we were convinced that the music was born of self-destruction and self deprecation and to come full circle and realize that the music is deep enough be rerouted in compassion grace and still be as effective as pretty <music> unbelievable but the goal was to see the four of us onstage and i was cool with it was going to be one song or a whole show but she suffered from incredible stagings i._d. And that was part of the equation always so when you saw her on a stage she was inwardly going through a lot more than you would. Have you would have thought because i ate her stationed. There was very icy but inside there was a lot of inner stuff going on the show must go on and correct and review best in the business. If you know the moment james he walked in my life changed my life forever the moment jimmy walked in or change your life saver doesn't mean everyday was perfect and we held hands and saying round the campfire but somehow in the midst of whatever our own individual and collective chaos ask. We were able to make these diamonds. That is the shared thing. Welcome to the talker first podcast. I'm one of your host tyler. <hes> with me is my co host brian who is as real as matt leblanc wise in one thousand nine hundred ninety s lost in space. Are you doing airlines does he defended uh-huh also also very virile man in ninety seven so yeah brian. We're gonna talk about an album nine. Hundred ninety eight adore the foaling studio album from our boy billy corks and his and the other members i like to i like to it's it's not just a billy corgan early for now. There's other reason i said billy corks because i really really like taking silly send ups on his name because i am a petty petty astle. I don't think that'd be abi corks. <hes> listens so you're saying bill. Corgi is listening. We should probably not dispatcher we're gonna be we're probably going to be mean later in the episode so we should be nice now anyway <hes> but <hes> yeah this album is it's kind of a departure in sound from the previous albums definitely it it does have the return of the smashing pumpkins original drummer drum machine. Welcome back drummer android tim but now i mean there was a real drummer for for a lot of the tracks but there's a lot of drum machine before we get into it really <hes> i wanna ask verb ryan. Do you understand what adore means like what the kind of joke joke that billy corgan why he needed that. No i don't well bryan. Adore is ready. Will you open it. God damnit that is literally. What does that is his quote for. Why why it's named the door was he. Is he a father. Was he a father. I follow me on instagram. <hes> he is a father. I appreciate your he. He was not a father at the time of it was he was working on his dad joe game already for sure yep. I love it though it makes me angry and happy it makes me happy we'll we'll. We'll workshop that one no but the thing we shirts now why we do that. Let's let's go cover the history and then the you technical analysis of adore sounds like a plan in the mid ninety s the smashing pumpkins released a successful foale double album melancholy infinite sadness but they were an uncertain position. Touring keyboardist died from a drug overdose drummer. Jimmy chamberlin had been fired for his own drug abuse and billy corgan marriage was falling apart. The band began demoing songs and early nineteen ninety-seven with the potential of another double album for these sessions producer brad would was brought in wooded previously worked with rook assault sunny day real estate and placebo melancholy saw collaboration all the members in the band corgan separated himself to write and record board to band had rented a house in hopes of according together and encourage collaborations but corgan andy ha refused to move in and rarely visited corgan also decide to let brad would go and produce the album on his own musically. This album moved away from distorted guitars and live drums in addition to a drum machine multiple session drummers were brought in to record when the abandoned finally recorded about thirty songs corcoran consulted with melancholy co producer flood to help finish the recording for the album together and mix the songs for the tone of the album kurgan reached for wider audience and melancholy teenage demographic explaining. He was not quote talking teenagers anymore. I'm talking to everyone now. It's it's got a wider dialogue. I'm talking to people older than me and younger than me and our generation as well also much of the record was quote an attempt to go back to what's important at a musical core and build it outward. He would lay reflect that he was quote. Stuck on the idea that i needed to prove that i was an artist. Which is the death now of any artist. At the insistence of the label virgin records fame producer rick rubin was brought in to try and give the band direction for the album corgi feared that he was losing creative control the album and limited rubin's influence to one track act titled. Let me give the world to you. The song was more upbeat than the rest of the tracks being worked on but it was planned to be included on the album until the last minute corgan had heard that the label was i plan to use the song as the album's lead single and corgan explained quote i handed in the record to the record company and i get the call that they wanna make let me give the world to you. The first single and i was like hell no the only way that i could stop them was to take it off the record. Someone asked me about this. It sounds like it could have been a hit song at the time why take it off the record and i said because i spent a pull fucking year trend to make this avant-garde thing perfect or vidor were more representative of the album and now we're going to release. The song with the dry milk toasts production. It isn't even as avangard guard is the stuff on melancholy much less door. I didn't want to step back to simple pop for the single and then try and sell this off guard record. It wasn't that i hated it or even that. I hated what ricky had done. He did a great job more. I didn't want to blow up everything had done for this. One song so the song had to go and in the basement went for sixteen or eighteen years door the first smashing pumpkins album to not feature any writing contributions from james e hough he was releasing his own soul of them. The same year titled what it comes down although he did work on the song summer that was included on the perfect single the lead up to a door was marked conflicting statements as to the album sound in the summer nineteen ninety-seven kurgan initially said the band is heading in the direction of the heavy metal guitar and electronic music driven sounds similar to the end is the beginning is the end while the band's management commit reported that the album would be all acoustic in early nineteen ninety eight corgan said quote. The people that say it's acoustic will be wrong. The people that say is electronic. We'll be wrong. The people that say it's a pumpkin record will be wrong. I will try to make something indescribable. Critically adore was generally positive but public reception was lukewarm. Adore adore entered the billboard album charts at number two and was certified platinum by the hour i five weeks later but the album soon departed from the charts leaving door far short of the sales figures of successors corgan blamed himself for the record reception with the public saying that he quote made the mistake of telling people it was a techno record and that if he would have told everyone wanna door was pumpkins first acoustic album we would have never had the problems that we had corgan wrote on the band's website. The album's title was misunderstood and a joke that no one ever got explaining adore was meant as a play on a door meeting the album would offer a new entrance to the band's career in two thousand and five corgan called the making of the album well one of the most painful oh experiences of my life next time chamberlain but redskin is out this month we will take a moment to discuss the concept of musical modes. He's modes are basically new scales which are made by making changes to a standard major scale. There are seven modes and they are as follows ionian dorian rian friggin lydian mix lydian <music> alien and locally <hes> these scales are all derived from starting a major scale l. somewhere other than its route and keeping the original distances between each note intact for example take d. dorien which has the notes d. the f. b. c. and d. which are the same notes in a scale just starting on d instead when writing writing songs in different musical modes you can end up with combinations of chords that you usually wouldn't here and using these modes is an easy way to write a song which is a bit removed in different from most popular music. We hear on a day-to-day basis. Keep an eye out for examples in the course of the review on a separate note and some of our previous episodes for the smashing washing pumpkins. We've talked through the songs that feature a flat tuned guitar as though they weren't flat tuned this time around if a song is flat tuned i will be calling it as it sounds misses a bit more complicated than discussing the gourds in their more natural keys but it is sort of the next step in discussing the song's accurately so it's been three years in the bunk bins that found themselves down a drummer what else do but reinvent the band a whole new pumpkins adore set out to be the bold new face of a beloved band and billy james and darcy. Were itching to try something new so they did. Let's go ahead and get into it. The album begins on an unexpectedly somber note with two sheila. The track begins with a gently droning high d flat note which provides a theory air for the duration of the song guitar joins and police through the gourds d flat a flat minor and g flat latte twice these chords put us in d flat mix a lydian which is basically a g flat major scale but starting under d flat the resulting scale is mostly major but tinged with a bit of melancholy coming from the seventh note in the scale in this case strangely. We call a. c. Flat the chords then cycle through a g flat b flat minor a flat and e flat minor and then buttons everything up with were they d flat a flat minor and e flat again as section ends. There's a strong choice to hold the very last d flat for only one measure instead of the two which would bring us to the round group of four that we'd expect with how sparse the arrangement is at this point. This provides a wonderful bit of interest through timing aiming rather than adding another element we then plunged into the chorus which sees a layering of gordon's vocals in different octaves giving the section a grander feel we also hear a clear chiming electric guitar which supports the sound with higher versions of the chorus cords and these chords roll through a deflate a flat minor and g flat twice and then a d flat a flat minor and e flat minor twice ending the course unless resolved place paving the way for the entrance prince of the second verse she the second verse adds a heavily filtered and distant sounding layer of percussion and and toward the end of meandering piano. This gives way to a second chorus which features all of the new layers were added in this verse <music> after this we run into a bridge section which sheds the percussion and electric guitar in favor of a pair of banjos one on each side of the recording playing intertwining melodies we then go into the last chorus which brings back the missing elements from the previous course and additionally we see the bridge and chorus vocals overlapped in a beautiful coral sort of way throughout the track billy provides a delicate soulful vocal take smoother mood and fuller than much of what we've heard from him up to this point while this song lacks the audible bombast of some of his earlier opening tracks the emotional punch which is very much present overall. This track isn't particularly far from any previous acoustic tracks from the pumpkins but there's a layer of polish and clarity to it which may signal signaled. The sound of the band is changing and the change is immediately displayed in the second track ava adore the song begins with some obviously electronic traffic and heavily filtered the drums a huge distorted drum ville brings in the elements that will form the verse of this song a real drum get layered on top of the electronic percussion a bass guitar alternating between the notes f and a flat implying being in f minor chord and then this baseline is supplemented by synth bass playing the same notes with sort of a singing quality provided by a wall like filter verse mainly rides on the f minor chord with billy taking a familiar bluesy approach vocal melody brie course consists of the chords e flat b flat minor back to f minor which is a welcome movement after the relative stasis of diverse is chord progression repeats leading you to think of will drop back back to the minor instead it lands on a flat cord bringing us into the major territory above f minor in beginning beginning the chorus the chorus sees a higher grittier melody from corrigan draped over the top of newly-arrived electric guitar leading us through the following concordes a flat c minor d flat b flat minor and a flat compared to the one chord verse this section absolutely source we'll still carrying forward the bristling electronic energy of the verse this section dissipates and go through another verse and another course but at the end of the second chorus we see the addition of a lyrical and musical tag adding one more line of lyrics and a b flat minor chord which gives us a strong in place to drop back to f minor from for the bridge. The bridge ridge is more or less a derivation of verse with a more menacing. Tom driven drumbeat and only the base to carry the low end. During this section billy's vocal stand and very forward is he covers a low menacing section and escalates to a borderline dangerous high section it before sending us into the chorus cords again instead of lyrics. We are greeted. I with a twin guitar lead just to remind you. The pumpkins can still do that while this is a good deal shorter and more restrained than many of the band's previous pieces of twin guitar are work. It is still very effective and a lovely lift in the middle of this dark brooding track the dual guitars then yielded to another proper chorus this time extending the tag from the the end of the second i to include an additional a flat and b flat minor this leads into an altro section which takes bits of verses and bridge and condenses them into a single. I their own eventually everything fades out until we are left with sparse percussion pace and a rolling baseline bring us home touted as the sequel to nineteen seventy-nine this next track gives us some more familiar pumpkins vibes and it is perfect perfect the main movement in the verse of this song from a or b minor chord placing us in they d- major scale the guitar alternates between an e and f sharp over the chords providing movement to a fairly static section of the song song. This chord progression takes three fronts and a back pattern alternating between the d._n._b. Minor three times and on the fourth go around an a an while this does have a very similar by the nineteen seventy nine. The verse is definitely more ambient. I've been driven more by textures than a distinct to guitar. If in fact there are some fairly nasty squelch low pitched electronic percussion elements which should probably probably be distracting but they're mixed at the perfect volume to add to the overall sonic landscape rather than take away from it. The exceedingly brief chorus opens up in employee's through a g and e minor entity then repeats the g._m. Minor before jumping back into the verse progression after the second chorus. There's a brief crunchy a gritty drum break then there's another verse and another course and the song replace itself out with no bridge. This is an unexpectedly simple song structure from billy with only two patterns despite the lack of variety it has kept fresh fresh by the rapid alternation between these patterns with short verses and shorter choruses. The other main strength of this track is that it incorporates textures which on their own would be quite jarring an angular but through proper mixing. They add a beating heart beneath the soaring ambiance of the other instruments simple yet effective next. It's time to get dancey eh but also said with daphne dissents if this this was about thirty beats per minute faster it would sound like a disco drumbeat instead. It is restrained in medicine. This doesn't sound lake guitar in the pumpkins skains tradition but the majority of the pitched sounds in this track or guitars playing through various delays verbs distortions and tremolos and sometimes giving us a surprisingly synthesized sound most of the electronic sounds in this track or percussion elements that are built up around the fairly simple drumbeat played by matt walker curve filter. Now matters tremendously accomplished drummer in his own right but this shows the lengths that the band went to in order to give this album the same rhythmic punch in the absence sense of jimmy chamberlin are modestly the song makes use of various combinations of the chords e flat f minor g minor eight flat which at first glance would imply that the songs in the key of e flat major but it's not the tonal center of the song is very much the g minor court rather than the flap so what gives functionally it is using the same course from the key e flat but the record is g minor which puts the song in g frigiere as i mentioned at the beginning this is how musical modes work work in this case you take an e flat major scale and start from the third note g instead of the first note flat and while up your g fridge in the song eventually sees itself out but repeating bar harmony on the phrase you love him as the various layers drop out one by one until we're left with only these vocals now for a big change of pace with once upon a time here. We have an acoustic track played in six eight time. I'm in the key of d major. It is distinctly more funky than anything that is preceded on the album and while it feels a bit out of left field. It's a welcome reprieve from the dark tones of the previous track. The percussion consists of the gentle drum kit playing the snare with metal brushes rather than sticks offering a softer sound found in place of symbols. We can hear tambourine. There was also oh a dense background of synthesizers playing soft washy pads and delegate plinking leads. You almost miss these sense. If you weren't looking for them they're mixed at a low level and provide more feel and texture than actual content guitars the main driver of this song in the -versities decode they quick g cord and then <noise> sharp minor court. This progression doesn't give us a whole lot of movement especially with how brief the g. cortes and while it doesn't move it does create a lot out of tension as the listener waits for something strong dapitan in terms of movement. When the chorus arrives we get the movement we have been waiting for as the cord ford switch to an e minor and a what a relief it then plays the e minor liner and be minor again before sliding down to a more movement and then he walked straight down the scale with an a. g. after e meyer and and back to d- to start the next verse after the second chorus we go into a bridge that runs through a b minor e minor and a <music> leading back to the chorus this time with a lovely harmony which is rhythmically separate from the melody but occasionally overlaps how to fantastic effect we then spend some time building the intensity over a static de cord which it's really builds up the want for movement to the point that when they revert to the verse chord progression did actually feels like stronger movement than really is the song plays out the final verse which is a unique way to end to song the song doesn't do much heavy lifting in the dynamics staying more or less the same volume and intensity throughout instead it does more emotional work by making you wait for the movement and then paying off that weight next up a deeply distorted drum fill tease. He's us up for tear tear. The guitars are brash and dark dark with the lead line that walks down. It's e flat alien scale from g flat to see flat then jumps up to chief flat and down to be flat for the record. The alien mode is a major scale starting from its sixth note in this case a g flat major major scale starting on an e flat. This is what we often call a natural minor scale so if i weren't specifically talking about modes this month i would call it. He flat minor. The chords in the intro are b flat minor a minor and e flat minor the lead lines b flat landing at the same time as the e flat court lead lands on the fifth note of that he flat minor chord when writing a melody this is always a good way to move make sure that you land on a note that is in the cord beneath it it offers a great sense of completion incorrectness as can be heard here. This section displays a new pattern. It's similar to three fronts in iraq back but in this case they play the flat minor a flat minor and e flat minor twice then he b flat minor a flat later and deflect once and then the be flat minor a flat minor and e flat minor wants more using the conventions of poetry rhyme schemes. We would call this pattern a this bombastic opening quickly gives way to a subdued section with pitched percussion offering the general impression of an e flat minor chord. Meanwhile billy sings things a thin but menacing melody more or less unaccompanied a austin on the last line of this verse the vocal switch to a fuller sound sung stronger and closer due to the microphone as you as a guitar slowly starts to swell behind the vocals we are then propelled into the chorus which starts with the same chords the intro we then go into a second verse which has has the same aesthetic and intensity of the chorus but with the chords e flat minor eighth labrador in d flat which out of context would have a more falke feel but once again giving us something familiar turned weird the pre chorus goes into the fourth fifth and sixth chords of the key in this case see flat d flat let and flat minor and i've mentioned before this cord territory which is rife with emotional potential and saving it intel this far into the song long is a strong maneuver. There is any brief interlude which is dominated by very granular synthesizers which keep the grisly vibe alive but also allow the intensity to come down so so that we can then build back up into a derivation of the main riff this time the cords are e flat minor minor and e flat minor again it it keeps the same guitar lead line over the top but it changes the cords underneath giving this section a more decisive feel. The overall sound of this recording is very dirty and sort of lo fi which was a result of the recording process as we'll discuss in the latter half of the episode however unintentional this choice was it is very much to the songs benefit it giving it a certain sense of gravitas in grief that perhaps would be dampened by a perfectly bright and shiny recording now we run through another high-intensity verse with the guitars bass coming to a hold on a d. flatt as some disgusting since strings climb up to an e flat minor giving us some resolution but not too much which next up we investigate a calmer and more subdued tune crestfallen it starts out with a beautiful piano since combo that saunters through the key of a minor with the aim higher you minor seeing g d minor and g._e. Before billy sings the first line to carry us into the song proper along the electronic drums stay steady throughout throughout the song allowing the cord movement to do the work. The verses are home to an a minor and a g keeping the feeling melancholy the pre choruses choruses see a similar progression with c. G. and while this is the same chords in a different order the feeling here is more hopeful simply because the sea comes first the chorus changes things up more by rolling through the f. meyer and birds and it does feel less resolved but it has a sense of urgency to it <music> status after another verse and chorus we see our way through to a fully instrumentally supported version of the intro which then takes into another chorus but this time with different lyrics and sung with more conviction the song ends on an a minor as a repeating heartbeat like kick drum continues on as a piece of punctuation on paper looking at the chords the song is pure pumpkins with a lot of cord movement but in practice being driven by pianos and synthesizers. It feels a bit alien within their catalog next up. We have another track which feels fairly far out of place apples plus oranges. This song is absolutely dominated by an electronic drumbeat which would not have felt out of place on the techno records of the era. Paul oaken fold comes to mind. There's practically no dynamic range enj- within this song the volume intensity of the beat just stay locked in for the duration the only real movement and breath in the song comes from the cord movement and even even that provides limited help you know every chord changes every four beats and there's no time to rest interestingly the versus feature feature a five measure figure e g b flat f minor and a flat and that sort of tricky and interesting in its own right but it's pretty much lost lost behind the relentless pulsating beat there are few other chord progressions but nothing particularly noteworthy eventually at the end of the song they land resolved on the flat cord but there's so little resolution within the course of the song. It's almost jarring rather than comforting. When the song reaches its end. The main problem here is that in addition into the lack of dynamic diversity. There's also no rhythmic diversity in the instruments which are all blasting away in steady sixteenth notes. The whole time in this lack of rhythmic mkx change makes it harder to hear and appreciate the variety of chords now if you really like this song. I'm not here to tell you that you're wrong. The overall sound vibe vibe a very cool electric jam. My main complaint here is that i'm just not used to hearing billion company do one thing for three and a half minutes and i desperately want some variety in this track as a side note. This is probably the first time that i've had mostly negative things to say about a song during one of these reviews and it likely will not be the last but if i have heard any feelings with this assessment or any other for that matter please get in touch with us online and explain what it is that you like like about the song maybe you're hearing something i'm not or maybe you can provide another angle from which to look at it anyway onto a song that i do like nick pug. This one starts with an interesting synth riff which features features a wandering baseline which continually alternates each new note with a higher g sharp note. The baseline walks through the following notes f sharp g sharp b. c. sharp e. d. sharp and be which are literally all of the notes in c sharp minor scale <music> interestingly they play four different nodes before they finally get to the root note c. sharp and then immediately play the e and and that's the other most resolved note within this scale meaning that the third measure of this figure with the c. sharpen the you have a moment of tonal alignment which really feels like comb providing some solid emotional movement within the courts. The chorus comes in with a softer palette of instrumental sounds and some unexpected chords. The first court is an e flat minor then c flat and then an e would properly be called an f. flat in this context and alternates back back and forth the f. flat e flat. This is a key change to an e flat fergie and scale and while this chord progression has there's two chords in common with the key of e namely the being the same thing is a flat masih flat. There's no d sharp minor in the key of e. You've only a d sharp diminished. Since this section uses the sound of what would be a full d sharp minor or efrat minor which are the same thing it constitutes institute of teaching in any case corresponds a fair amount of time alternating between the flat in the e which makes the eventual step back up to an f. short for the verse. I feel shockingly natural. When we reached the bridge changes keys yet again to the key of g sharp minor chords g sharp minor e c sharp minor in short and that's a really pleasant in point of rift which builds some serious anticipation and then it surprisingly dropped his back into the chorus after that when we're dropped back into the verse we are introduced to some angular synthesized percussion and as the section gain gene steam. The base guitar begins pulsating f sharp for the rest of the salt it during this time hidden fairly far back in the mix. There's a tasteful guitar solo gently elevating section to last chorus material as the main riff. If dissolves into static chaos we are carried out by the base and some beautiful river laden guitar and the key of f sharp major or g flat major. If you prefer yeah now that was a song long that had some real movement lovely pallet cleanser after apples and oranges as far as i'm concerned now something upbeat the tale of dusty and pistol pete. This song starts out on assumingly enough with a simple guitar partner gentle vocal line guitar follows a three fronts at a back pattern alternating between s flat indy five minor and then going up to g flat on the fourth measure knee-jerk assumption here would be that we're in the key of c flat but that would be incorrect as we move into the pre chorus which alternates between at a flat minor any minor that gives us enough information to say that we're in the key of g flat mix exa lydia just as we get used to that we move into the chorus which plays a d. flatt later and see flat placing this section in in deflect deflect and g flat are closely related as keys only having one note different between them so this is not particularly jarring change to here unless you happen to be analyzing the song in which case it can be momentarily confusing in hitting me. There is a brief bridge which features some atmosphere guitars played with an ego. This allows us to take a breath before we leap into the last verse and chorus. This is is a fun tune with a lot of life in it but it's also fairly benign. I think it would have been well served by adding some signature pumpkins dirty electric rhythm guitar but i don't think that's the vibe there were going for. I also think this would be a strong track. In a lesser bands discography next we have a sparse piano driven a number any dog as you may have noticed at this point. I tend to really enjoy complicated songs songs but there are some songs that gain a whole lot from remaining simple and this is one of those songs. It's only piano bass and drums throughout. It's got few fun chord progressions which move a lot but they're very simple and comforting the verse chords are day minor g e minor eight liner g gee overby a minor and saint when the base joins in the second verse it plays a key under that secord at the end of making it a c over g visit a slightly different feel but also gets the base closer to its restarting note of deep. The core ceases use an f. d. minor minor conc- followed by an f. d. minor and a minor no see this time and the base plays a underneath the f. cord during the chorus giving it a darker occur and more plaintive voice corbin's melody has a lack of rhythmic variety in singing only three main rhythms throughout the song the verse rhythm being the the most repetitive but as such. It's also the catchy est. The drums are gentle but very syncopated and fairly active and it's just a simple song well-done. Everything's nicely executed in a look see next we move onto a pensive rooting track in the form of shame. I wanna go on record ahead of time here and say that i absolutely love the vibe five of the instruments in this track but the chorus lyrics or more accurately lyric drives me nuts i will set that aside and explain what i like so much much about the instruments the songs in the key of d flat major with the verses alternating between a d flat cord which suspends itself in the middle by adding a g flat momentarily and then a please a b flat minor seven chord. It's made a seven by the use of a flat in the guitar riff. It's it's simple add more about atmosphere than anything else but the guitar tones are deliciously vintage ended perfect yeah at the end of verse they throw in a flat cord. If for no other reason than to signal the end of this section i like this move because of how subtly communicates to the listener that they should brace themselves for a change the course plays a b flat minor seven than an eighth he fled thirteen oversee a b flat minor seven again f minor seven and he flat minor seven and f minor seven and another e flat minor minor seven again and this is all before dropping back down to the d. flatt for the verse again. Uh this a lovely corporation because the chords that are being played are simple but but the editions of the guitar riff over the top of the cords and the bass riff beneath them make them into something a bit more sophisticated and complicated the third verse sees a distorted and and low pass filtered keyboard riff and it adds a whole lot of texture and feeling to that verse throughout the song get calm bursts of mellow fuzzy bending guitar alex which functioned wonderfully as a texture and a bit of a lift on the dark low feeling of the song toward the end a series of glassy synth textures morph their way in and out of the mix as billy repeats the last refrain and the song fades gracefully away moving moving on to behold the nightmare which was nowhere near as aggressive as i would have guessed from the title i was expecting some first half of melancholy face melting to occur it did not instead we receive a restraint track which still has a fair amount of drive to it. It's primarily carried by electronic percussion of the strange filtering variety and then there's base and some other synth textures in the key of d major the verse alternates a few times between an f sharp minor dinner at eight and this is sort of a non movement but it wets the appetite for stronger movement later in the song at the end of the verse it holds onto a g for a while allowing the sound to develop and decay beneath billy's vocals and then movement the precourt moves through an a b minor an e minor liner a few times and this gives us that same movement. We're looking for but without resolution again dwelling in detention then holding on a g again before the chorus takes the reins with the same chords as diverse though infinitely more satisfying this time because the fact that became down from jeet that g._t. D movement is the political cadence which i've discussed previously and it just feels good to hear next we drop into an unexpectedly bluesy passage in six six eight time j._d. In e minor at eleven a._d. Over f sharp minor over and he minor seven and gee there is an absolutely gorgeous section of harmony that comes in over these chords and it makes me feel things take <music> surrounding away next door cycles through an a sharp and which feels like it's leading to a sense of finality but it's not quite crawl drop back into four four and then there's a choo synthesizer that drones over a slow build from the bass and drums as they alternate between the vocals rejoin plaintively over a jeep until the cords reach up to an a. escalation of the stakes and then marie entrance of the pre chorus arrives in taking a more atmosphere approach at the chorus steps in and gently leads us into a moody ending which washes away into nothingness into the home stretch we have for martha. The beginning of this song is has some very very tense escalating piano switching back and forth between an f sharp minor chord and an f. court. This is unconventional and feels those very emotionally fraught. This eventually comes down to an a. over e chord in a d major nine teeing you up to hear an acord but psych you don't get to hear it the next riff alternates between f sharp minor c sharp minor three times then played an eat teeing you up even harder order to hear an accord and this time you get it moving along in the composition. We have an a. n. A. b. minor three times than a c sharp minor aw be minor and drums enter the f sharp minor section repeats itself under corrigan's gentle vocal take and then we dropped from the e the end of this section into a d. which ping pong with an and f sharp minor the last time we hear that after a minor it steps down to an e and then up to a b minor leaving unsure of which way it'll go as it turns out it goes back to the f sharp minor section again and then we make a left turn. We have in a a g major seven. It'd be major seven and a major seven a g major seven and major settled and an a. which repeats this run of major seven chords is not the way the jazz chords are typically used and it is very far from normal functional harmony but it's a wonderful example of billy saying fuck you all do it anyway and getting good results out of breaking the rules this gives way back to the d. major section action again and then to a quiet pass at the f sharp minor section and eventually this all comes back around to that incredibly tense opening riff but this time it supported by a drum. I'm built which leads us into the bizarre major seven section again but this time was absolutely singing lead guitar ktar work and this leads back into the d section again but we're still rocking out the piano and a clean guitar carriers finally to a calm resolution on n._a._s._a. Nine quarter which echoes out into infinity behind some layers of quiet but aggressive guitar incense which fade in and and then out in a subdued dramatic fashion now for the penultimate track blank page <music> this song is more or less a piano ballot but there there are a lot of layers of since texture and whatnot that add up to an emotionally full piece of music particularly toward the end this song could be described does through composed meaning that there isn't a lot of repeating structures within it even the bids that sound repeated actually deviate from the pattern pretty much every time as a matter matter of fact the only repeating form that i found the song is twenty four chords long and that means literally twenty four changes where it's not the same the same pattern in any of those twenty four chords and they don't even stick to that very closely. I would imagine that this was written pretty much on the fly by billy at a piano by himself himself and then the rest of the instrumentalists afterwards just threw in whatever they thought sounded good honestly very difficult to make a song but the chord progression is rambling rambling. Is this one sound good but they did it and here it is lastly. We have a delicate in brief altro in seventeen seventeen. It's a low fidelity recording of a piano being being plucked around on over a d chord just as it starts to move to a b minor chord it abruptly stops and we are suddenly at the end kevin album wondering what the fuck just happened so smashing pumpkins has become something entirely new and after the polished polished perfection of siamese dream sprawling exploration of melancholy adore doesn't quite seem to know what it is and i'd wager that's because they spent seven or so years as a unit jimmy chamberlin and now they're learning to be a new creative unit without him. Aband- sound is contributed to by each member sometimes sometimes in differing ways and degrees but everyone's presence has an impact on the overall sound so even though billy is an exceptional and prolific mc songwriter. This was a period of adjustment now. I'm not overly fond of this. Record doesn't really give me the things that i want want from the smashing pumpkins record right. I i'm looking to be absolutely mold in the face by qatar at least once that never really happened happened <hes> but there's a lot of interesting things here and i feel like that. If this album had come from someone other than smashing pumpkins it probably would have been hailed as something new and unique and it would have been well received. It's easy to imagine how at the time diehard fans may have been very put off by this record but those who would argue argue that they sold out and went pop. I beg to differ. This is a band that is far too weird bold in adventurous to sell out in. This is certainly not pop. It's a strong attempt at doing something different. It is in a certain light a portrait of a band grieving a parting of ways with a dear friend but this isn't a place that dwell in for long more on that next time so so you know oh that's that's enough for me. Why don't we go team up and talk about these tracks. So the first one we have is to sheila so this one for me. <hes> you did not really properly teamed up for the rest of the record this. This felt very appropriate and mary pumpkins. I thought it was interesting. There were starting with something quite this gentle until the thing that really strikes me about it is just how beautiful the song is though also surprise andro yeah i mean it's very this album in general is we'll get to waiters is very electronic focused but this out the song is not <hes> it's kind of a good hand off from the previous stuff with like melancholy where we could could end on that kind of quiet acoustic down your note and then we pick up this. It's like okay. Were you know transitioning. It won't be it won't be so bad. <hes> about like you said i i don't i didn't really resonate with me. It's kind of a quiet. It's a good song but doesn't really there's not a whole heck of ought to it. Add musically at least there's not a lot there too sonically grab you. I like. I like the lyrics. Did they're doing a really. It's a fairly standard billy thing where it's like flirting back and forth like over the line of of making sense and not so it leaves a lot upturn your own interpretation. I feel like it's a very open ended song in that way yeah yeah i guess i i should probably preface the four this album album in general. This is not the smashing pumpkins in general that i expect expected so i am going to preface this this whole thing by saying a lot of these songs i don't like <hes> and i'm going to try and find focus on the things i do like because i want to be positive but this <music> i'm i come to smashing pumpkins for guitars drums and solos and stuff and this is not what you signed up for so to speak correct. Yes so i'm so i wanna be i wanna be. I wanna friend focus on the positive stuff but that's that's where my places on this album as ah to be kicking. I was told there'd be qatar but this one this is good. This is like this totally would fit on on melancholy or siamese siamese dream so a this is the last album that we have a reissue for as of two thousand nineteen me damn wacky notes actually before we go into the liner notes haven't interview where <hes> corgan and says that <hes> to sheila represents a turning point in the band's history jimmy chamberlin had left the band and this is the first song that i recorded for a door in essence. This is a veiled l. Love song and it also talks about the idea that we always seek in life is to truly feel alive and we think back to it. I can see myself recording this in the studio and i know damn well that there's gonna be some trouble to follow. When i finished recording it i was shaking because i knew i just stepped off a cliff from which there was no return when we play this now it reminds let's be of what defines us as a band to stand up for what we believe in no matter what so i think that was right after yom came out again i just find find it so interesting the the difference in clarity and lucidity between what he says and what he writes <hes> yeah so in terms of what he writes here in the letter notes man. You're putting a lot of you're putting a lot of expectations on this and i hope it pays you. You will this till i die i. I was very confused by these now. I just fucking love them. They're just a wacky journey. Give it to me. <hes> matt to sheila written poland the lyrics coming to me as a road with our our band party down to nondescript country road the first take was on the first day of the album and the song trumpets in softly new era or what was the final era or to the end of the only era or the beginning of this era either either way they either way the melody and the simplicity of the cords is presented both coming and going or better said adore in and out a door. There is no sheila but she does exist somewhere beyond the limits of my imagination. I imagine her to be gaelic. One other impression the line you make me real strikes me we as an odd intention that would be up until this point. I wasn't or that. Your narrator never was for that which has struck into negation still exists assists and a lot of love that tyrants can never understand okay deeply poetic not as scattered as some of his previous liner work. Yeah i mean there's the whole thing of the random like there's no sheila but if she did exist she's she's big as i like that and you know the whole thing of you make me real being you know the implication that adapt your name narrator wasn't so that's there's that sort of breath of life. Sort of creation started it off there. There's a certain theatricality to that idea that i really enjoy and much with it a necessarily comes across in the track. I mean i don't i don't resent the track for being sedate <hes> no but you know it's got a lovely melody and i think it it has more more depth dinner really displays. I think that that's definitely one that sort of <hes> rewards repeat listening. I'm oddly enough. Did <hes> god had. This is such a specific reference. This song reminds me of his <hes> the wreck of the edmund fitzgerald by gordon lightfoot <hes> just like like not familiar myself but <hes> so it's it's a classic classic kind of folk song from you know the age of our parents but it's it's. It's a really good song but it's got the same sort of major gone minor kind of vibe to it. It's just this is like much much slower but there's a lot that feels sort of similar there this this is just sort of the ambient slower kinda spiritual live there but you know the the the melancholy. Is there yeah i dunno. I just kind of put that one together now and it was like oh yeah. There's there's something so yeah. <hes> i knowing the history with the band where jimmy chamberlin has the been removed from the band and just knowing that will history and then this is the first thing we recorded when they come back from from that and there's the line of discard my friends to change the scenery is seems really deep because i from what i've been reading so far and what i know of the future of the band i feel like billy corgan and jimmy chamberlin. Chamberlain are like really good friends yeah. They're clearly says good of friends as you could be with somebody. Who's a coworker band. You know they're they're. They're close they have. They have an act dave genuine friendship so him you jimmy not being in the band is probably for the best for jimmy's health but <hes> you know bill is still kind of sad. He misses friend absolutely and i mean you've heard you know. Billy interviews talk about how jimmy really really cemented the band right. They weren't really all the way pumpkins and dell. Jimmy arrived and so this just at the moment where he was scared shitless. I know it sounds dramatic the ladder notes for him to talk about how he knew. He jumped off a cliff to never return but god. It must have felt so weird after three albums in so you know i don't want to stay overnight success or anything like that but you know rising too serious acclaim to go into this into this process for the first time really without him. Mm-hmm yeah must've been just weird. Just just unsettling well move onto the next one ava adore and now for something completely different yes so this is where we get our first or good taste of <hes> the electronic traffic style. What is it is it the best genre describe it as well. I mean it's yeah. That's i think one of i think that's at the band's say they were leaning more into electronic sounds. I think they still consider themselves. A rock band and i still think it's a rock song. <hes> the relies very heavily on <hes> on electronic instrumentation. You know there's so many of the things that i think really put people off about this record. When it came out feeling go jumping jumping the gun here but lake lanier start to get into these songs that are a little more a little more electron iq were way more jarring than than they would be now rate dolines lanes between genres now in twenty nineteen or a hell of a lot thinner than they were twenty one years ago when this came out right. There's all sorts of genre hopping that happens now so if you're if you're rock band happens to throw in a little bit of keyboard or drum machine at this point. It's like well yet but i can see how one thousand nine hundred it's like. Oh what the hell is happening panik billy what did you do. I can see this feeling like a betrayal. In that moment you know yeah especially like with the bands you know with we ah lost a member of the band announcing the thing changes. It's you know there'd probably be a lot of questions but <hes> but for the song specifically <hes> it's a i think it's a perfectly normal and healthy. Relationship is the topic of the song. You're absolutely there's no co-dependency. There's no obsession the white picket fence in the whole nine yeah yeah <hes> but <hes> i don't know if you watch the video for this but this is the first single for for the album nope queued me <hes> up youtube and thumbing through yeah. It's a pretty cool video. It's got billy in the band and they do some kind of speed ramping stuff so billy's kinda weird hand dance stuff and like you're moving into the camera and zip out and it's <hes> it's pretty good video okay so a lot of the stuff that was almost editor necessarily want to say cutting edge but a lot of the stuff that was certainly very appropriate to its time yeah yeah. It's it's <hes> yeah for ninety eight. It was probably very trippy and there's a cold video. I enjoyed it. I'm kind of <hes> sneaking through here. Real quick for for stills so to speak. I mean i mean in corgan has got like full. Nas forget to you know pay all baldzs black black robes almost as enough for two is definitely the right reference there part of me was going to say voldemort but before for him corgan was before his time absolutely absolutely before the first book even the right there. I can reference there yet against against this also being very risque for the time like certain parts of this video are very very close to being n._s._f. W yeah yeah there was a little bit of that <hes> oh some really cool air with projects behind him to if you haven't been watching stuff yeah yeah good techniques. They're trying to do the thing where it looks like. It's all in one take but i'm pretty sure they're cutting cleverly disguised cuts. They're almost always are yeah. It's a solid video. I don't like to say oh. This is my favorite song this album but this is definitely. I think this is my favorite song on this album. You don't like to but you will i for this one. It's pretty easy for me to say which ones i really like yet because i i suppose the delineation is further yeah. I mean this one does have a lot of that electron influence but definitely has like this sort of dirty rock and roll energy there. That's still very pumpkins. I like it feels appropriate. Even though it's different in new yeah and i guess this is kind of thing i i this is a very electric song and then there are electric songs later in the album that i do not like as much so i can say pretty clearly that it's not the electronic part that i have issue with in later songs sure absolutely and i feel like something is something is different about this one as well done and i enjoy it by keppel my finger on exactly what yet there's is a yeah the there's this one feels like it should be the single. You know what i mean. It's it's the one that's the most like concise and tightly lee sculpted it works. It works really really well. It's a good song and it still feels like them. Even though it's so different i will say <hes> when when we get to the end of the album we'll talk about the song that was originally going to be the first single but then was removed from the album haw kham completely all right so yeah. We'll get to that later. <hes> say this wasn't originally going to be the first but <hes> let's look at billy corrigan's a lighter note hoagie adore obsessively written about some objectified person. There's also no eva that i can configure and lyric is perhaps more screed to my frustration at the fair sex than say what might melt two souls together. We must never come apart is more of a demand than any state of absolution accorded essentially in a single morning and afternoon shockingly didn't tinker with the production much in all the languishing that went about during the album's purdah recording. If i had known that it would be pushed to the opening single i suppose that i would have made a better effort to examine what made the track provocative and for its times too strange. Thankfully the song has endured long past twin may have expired along with the k. genus that made the accompanying video so arresting and expensive so yeah i didn't i totally forgot to to like plan out our statements but it was kinda cool that we talked about the video and all those little parts in the corgan goes like bam bam bam all the things. You've talked to in q. for underscoring us yet. It's i guess if okay i am sending out a series of consonants now because i'm trying to figure out how to start this sense but basically what i'm getting at is. I think this was probably a turning point for a lot of fans. Were certain people who were up for billy being weird and billy and company. I should say ah just so used to still talking about trent as nine inch nails from the first season sure greater but i think at this point the people who were ready to go with them on that journey were there and a lot of people who were in it for the jam rock and the guitar solos that would <hes> <music> <hes> in your nostrils like that. I think that crew may have kind of abandoned. The abandoned smashing pumpkins at this point right there i see this as is a place where they go out and they buy the record naked the second song and they're like this is so different what the fuck <hes> but it's funny to me because if you would know r- the instrumentation lake what's what's actually physically in the song <hes>. Would they use to make the sounds. It's still so very much a smashing pumpkins song they could just i. I guess the reason i bring this up is because i kind of feel bad for not having checked out more of their newer stuff at this point because i like this in this this song in particular a lot. Even though it's really got a different vibe going anyway we should probably move onto the next song because i'm getting into like end of the episode territory here just because i will circle back around but <hes> we'll move onto the next one which is perfect this at least the first half half the album is probably the most pumpkins e one to me yes <hes> this is the one that we talked about when we talked about nineteen seventy-nine that there was like a sequel a <hes> music video and yeah this is that sequel in in one hundred percent is just this album's answer to it. It's got a different different different sort of <hes> a coup saria percussion thing going on for obvious reasons but it's very similar. The cords are just a little bit more developed like it definitely. We feel like just a slightly more complicated. Perhaps a little more layered version of nineteen seventy nine and i freaking love. This is one yeah <hes> this is definitely. If eva door is a wasn't my first favorite this would be my second favorite or next. I really liked the song this was the second single second and last single <hes> <hes> the video is pretty cool. It's like we talked about back in nineteen seventy nine and its sequel with all the same characters <hes> so kind of see what they're up to a few years later or so overall really good little song <music>. I feel like this is. This is smashing pumpkins then that i'm still trying to define what that means to me but this is it. This is part of it. Yeah yeah. I it fits. It's into that image very very nicely very easily yeah. It's it's a mellow pep. Pumpkins sound <hes> but <hes> in the wider notes gordon says <hes> pending los angeles perfect was a late addition to the fold my inspiration to the coming break up to people i once thought i admired to state the obvious lyric kazmunaigaz ironic as in love affairs can be quantified as perfect yet. This is the goal rekindling the memory. I'm still scarred by making what was then and and now it's so disappointing a video where even our our attempt to reassemble the beguiling cast of nineteen seventy-nine was faded from the first with one of them sitting that moment in jail on top top of this undecided my lip sync should be filmed from on high and a fifty foot high crane was located for rent soon such heights revealed my fear and of them as and as i tried to sing i found i couldn't stop shaking effecting what became a tremendous unfortunate delirium. That would last a week well. It's so funny you say that because the second you're talking about the train. Sorry the crane rather. I find the shot of him on it. Yeah you can tell us how harassing calm in the cowboy yes yeah. He's like straddling a crane with him looking at the camera. He's got a cowboy hat on for some reason which is i. I don't understand that you know. I thought he was like off but he's a cowboy to well. I mean it is a cowboy hat. Maybe he's just trying to wrangle some some sad cows. I guess but <hes> yeah is <hes>. I totally understood as saying their accents. I would also have done very poorly on cran. Yeah i say that that wasn't actually <hes> that that was definitely one of his more instructive pieces of land out there. There's a lot of honest to god information <hes> it's it's funny because as i watched the video gives me vibes of <hes> keep in mind that came out in ninety eight <hes> a lot of michelle gondree <music> music videos of of the late nineties and early thousands. I think like every long by foo fighters healthcare yeah yeah yeah. They're they're in just this sort of dreamy. Estate executed may be quite as well which would be hilarious if this ends up being michelle gone video which i haven't looked up but it is of that the era of that's at style yeah totally makes this ever so slightly heightened reality <hes>. Do you have anything else to add for perfect. No i just really get damn like yeah. Great great song <hes> makes me really happy at it as sort of melancholy as as the content actually actually is like it's it touches a positive place all right cool yeah. Let's move onto daphne descends. Yes <hes> so weirdly. <hes> listeners may remember that <hes> lashed episode i recommended the ben folds live album. Yes <hes> there is a song by ben folds called the ascent of stand of stan. Did this immediately reminded me of resent sort of like driving almost disco beat <hes> but in this kind of minor key this one certainly has a bit of slower and darker vibe to it but yeah i immediately went there. This one feels very appropriate for billy and company but i mean specifically for the way the billy writes the songs it feels appropriate to me because he's taking something that is fairly simple and really not particularly challenging and just changing the smallest details about it to make it just sounds a little. That'll fucked up and i'm here for it like i'm on board. <hes> not not one of my favorites on the record but like i get what they're doing. They're it's like hey. Let's take a disco song and put it on downers overall pretty solid little song. I don't really have much say about it. I i think that if it was on one of the two previous albums it would have been like the last quarter kind kind of not the last song but kind of building towards a deep cut yeah yeah fourth song on the album and you're like okay. Things are getting getting weird. Go cool cool all right yeah okay <hes> let me pull up what he would say originally meant as an old timey number like when you would play sitting on the front porch drinking sperla the day hot the day hot yes but in that the song felt inconsequential the message wjr was on tedium and clock like wait hence the looping synthesizer bass and the gallup of the one to beat back with them <hes> whoever daphne she is she gets a hell of a warning here about the boy no not by the band's mates fe love song boy of song but the kind of boy. We trialed that i once was think i got it right. I believe we're leaving you. Billy billy is getting a little more weird into sentences says yeah i mean this. This one was definitely leaning more into the poetry of it. <hes> it's it's funny because the structure is simple and i can almost see this as like like you know something played at the singer song book that back when you know once upon a time when we didn't really have recorded music so music was distributed and cheating sheet and people in every home the ivory had somebody who could play the piano and you'd gather around and that's how that's how music happened <hes> you're in if you take away. We all kind of the ghetto the dressing up the accoutrements on on this song. I can definitely see how it as a lot. In common with just sort of the simpler songs wrongs the tin pan alley songs from the nine thousand nine hundred nineteen twenties wouldn't have made the connection without him calling it old-timey better. Actually story does check checkout weird. One all right yeah rate a move on all right. We have once upon a time so this one also feels super pumpkins e to me again. Though i feel like to go to your further point about daphne descends. I feel like this would be like the second to last song on any of their previous albums. Yeah and i think that is something i've made a note of for my final thoughts <hes> a lot of these songs despite at this point in the album feel like they could be last songs the second to last songs on any of the previous albums and they wouldn't have felt so out of place. I mean even throughout especially the back half a melancholy. They were using a fair amount of electronic. Sound and instrumentation is just the league. They're leading with it. Now yeah i. I'm i'm gonna risk. You know saying stuff. I'm going to say later led written for later on at the final wrap up but i feel like this sousse. These are the songs that were released songs of like we've we've had all the crazy rocking we've had billy screaming at us in zero and you know all qatar solos and then we get to mellow out a bit and eva door didn't do that didn't do that. Rocking zero bullet with butterfly wings type stuff but then now we're getting all this like release melba letdown strong but we didn't. It doesn't feel like it's earned. I think that's kind of my problem with these and just you know it just mellow song mellow song mellow song in general <hes> it's not and i'm kind of i'm looking for that. Zero rowan's bullet with butterfly wings sure again without wanting to spoil bali too late yeah and that's all has to do with my expert sure this is this is obviously his art and his what he wanted to release just to one degree or another so i can't. I don't want to criticize that too much because i wouldn't want people to do that to me but that's that's where i'm kind of sitting with onto the stuff and that includes this once upon a time. I mean so this. This one is very very digestible. It like it reminds me a lot of like sweet sweet. You know again some of those late tracks. This one's simple enough that there's really nothing thing <hes> super challenging about it what i will say. Is that a certain way to me. It sort of feels like a spiritual successor to in the arms of sleep off melancholy right where he kind of tread some similar ground musically. Oh this one's a little more abjectly happy. <hes> sound wise not not not lyrically but <hes> sound wise and then then that one but it there's there's a lot of similarities rolling through there in terms of what what's actually happening the mechanics of it musically yeah yeah and it will say i go to try and check out like what other fans think of stuff. There's a genius dot com is one of the places i go and look out and there's for every every other song and every other smashing pumpkins album. There's a lot of like user submitted. You know you know <hes> like notes about specific lines and stuff <hes>. There's a few who at the first few tracks of this album but then at this point. I think there's like none for the rest of these remaining songs of like nobody somebody might have a comment about the song in general oh but there's no specific lyrics that people go oh i believe this. This is a reference to this thing and that thing so it just didn't pull people in yeah yeah sure also on that same note of the user comments of not really being there. <hes> billy's comments for this one is very short mhm <hes> once upon a time like for martha was penned in direct opposition to my mother's untimely death a message i suppose for things that i would have liked to you have said but didn't have courage for a personal highlight and one i treasure regardless of current taste and favor the purest of them all and i think that's really a fair. I think that's that this one's it's it's unadorned right lake. It's simple. It's honest it doesn't it doesn't feel contrived you. When you write a song about your mom dying you get to say this is about my mom dying and then you don't have to say anything else. It's okay totally it but even apart from that not not having known that the the idea of being sort of the purest song in the album absolutely holds true for me absent that information. I feel like this is the one that has the least to be because even to sheila as as mellow as that one is very. It's sort of a statement of intent in this one. This one is not loaded ended with that same deal. It's more just like it's simpler. It's i don't wanna talk about like pretentiousness attention business. That's not that's not really the right word but there's a certain gravitas to some of the other ones in this one just a little more honest little more conversational and editor like it for that yeah and if you if you do know what the context where he's talking about is <hes> penned about his mother's untimely passing we when the first line is mother. I'm tired come surrender. My son times ravaged on my soul no plans to leave but still i go yeah that really kind of clicks and you know obviously nicely connected what he said. It was and i feel similar similarly to that too. How did about ten thousand days as we were doing doing a research for a record where all the sudden a a lot of the the messaging and imagery in the lyrics started to make a hell of a lot more sense with the context of his mother passing as much as feel like once artists released it belongs to the listener <hes>. I think there is something to be said for trying to really. I understand the head space that the artist was him. There were creating it to at least provide some context if the strong enough it'll speak on its own but even then you you may be able to look at it then from a different angle than you did before right they. There's a benefit to understanding what the what the what the creator was going through. I think <hes> <hes> probably a cow. <hes> counts for most art but i'll but specifically for music songs can have multiple meanings. Ah the to the same person like there's their songs were. I listened to it one time and i think about what it means one thing to me and then a week later i listen the same song and it means something different just because you know same song same person same everything just move onto tare. I just want to take a brief moment to talk. What about the fact that they did everything they could with drums on this record. They did everything they could to kind of supplement the fact that they no longer longer had jimmy lake. I'll put it this way the the drummer in the band that i play it is one of those guys who just sat sat there and like woodshed for most ice cool. He's he's just a damn good drummer and this. This dude idolizes jimmy chamberlin. He's like you guys. Probably we the best rock drummer full stop right <hes> and so them to lose somebody of that caliber radio did it's it's <hes> the a lot of work to sort of make up the ground that was made by jimmy existing on the record yes so they started this song with a a simple but bombastic drumbeat that sounds like it was recorded through a microphone that had been placed in a condom and then dipped in a bucket of water and then sat next to the drum kit it. It sounds like shit and they're like well. We don't have jimmy's pristine fantastically timed perfectly tasteful playing so let's just go the the complete opposite direction polled move. I mean i feel like that's kind of the approach in general to how this whole album kind of is or you know in broad broad sense when you lose somebody that it's that good of a drummer mer yeah do what are your choices higher. Try and find somebody else who is equal or very close to that or have somebody somebody who is trying to reach for something beyond his skill level and not sounding good or you go all right. We're totally going to change how we approach drums and do drums different to. They're not even really drums like it's a it's a computer doing drums like i think this is the best thing you can do because yeah because if you get if you get a big name grew super awesome drummer you're just oh so. You're just replacing jimmy exactly right. They could have gotten anybody to come employees for them. At that point right. This is one thousand nine hundred ninety two gotten dave grohl to complain for wouldn't have sounded right because it wasn't jimmy. Dave could play jimmy's parts. It's yeah it would not have sounded right and you could've fucking broaden. Neil neil perk from rusher mark mike portnoy from dream theater any any of these like prodigious drummers. It wouldn't have been correct because jimi walk this wonderful line between precision and chaos. There was one hundred percent correct for the band so they had to do something different trying to catch the same lightning in a bottle that is jimmy chamberlin playing a drum kit in a room like it's not it's not worth trying to duplicate. It's never gonna be the same deal so i'm glad they went for something so different instead of aching seeking to try and make the same all right <hes> so what <hes> let's see what billy has to say <hes> an interesting note which is a great way to start your thing that is all indo. Hopefully it's an interesting note. That's what we came to you. William gordon as as opposed to all the other notes which are very not in it. That's him saying all the other ones are not interesting. The thing is i've been interrupted. You're up to and say that patently disagree with that. Some of them helped sensical but none of them have been uninteresting. Look when you have one note that says an interesting note by by definition you're saying all other notes or not wash so my accountant said then i've <hes> so all right do do do continue accounting accounting jokes interesting. Note tear was originally recorded in chicago and by the time we got out to l._a. I'd gone off the version russian for some reason not because they didn't like per se but because it wasn't near the hyperbolic drama i wanted for cross for cross the album there was really but a few loud moments and i thought this unwise so i remember i remember trying some new versions and they sounded the same which returned me back to the original. Try through some distortion and sounded and over compression affected it positively but not far enough to bridge the gap we engage in a process called tape saturation where the tracks were bounced from one unreal to another until they start to smear voila and with that a rough mix was commissioned and we moved on it by the time we went to mix the song some months later the sound was drastically quickly change and there was no high end to to be found quote. It's called off said flood meaning that the gimmickry of the saturation didn't last for long hence what what you have on your hands as the original the rough mix and a newly made balance of the from the digital transfer made when the tape was fresh so he's talking specifically about the remastered yeah version of this so yeah that's what he has to say that that's interesting so talking about that process of tapes adulation so there's some very very serious peculiarities when recording to tape. It's funny for me to sit here and twenty one thousand nine hundred by the peculiarities tape when that was the standard for four years <hes> but yet our that now that we record in digital <hes> we now go go to these ridiculous lengths to emulate tape simulation because nobody can afford a fucking two inch twenty four track tape machine unless bless your firefighters exactly so shout shout out to the homie dave machine so the the process of that way when they talk about the high end ebbing fallen off that's just part of that tape saturation right when when they run that process bouncing thing it from from one to another you're automatically gonna lose fidelity and a lot of the stuff that you're you're kind of. Here's as being the details sales that are declarative of the song happens in these higher higher frequencies all the way from like to get up to top a human hearing so we'll call it. I mean we can call it twenty k. but legitimately nobody listening to smashing pumpkins can still here up to twenty k. So the the thing with that is that when you were sitting there at a studio and you're taking a song and you're trying to absolutely just beat it to death until it sounds correct. You can run it through revision after revision. Eventually you feel like oh. We found the magic. Pluggedin is the two thousand nine hundred equivalent of that right so like oh. These vocal sound really stale l. Let's go out and run them. Through some tape saturation or in you know in today's world plug in four tapes at <hes> and it's such an improvement in in the moment that is very easy to realize what has been lost in the process of doing that so for them to sit it fell off. Yes degradation happens on tape when the sitting <hes> but i wouldn't be surprised if honestly more had been lost in that moment when they initially did that that whole tape saturation around and then when they finally got back around to it with fresh ears and they're like shit. We've told the high end out of it. You know it's it's a really fickle thing along with your fighting not just the arrangement of the song but also the sonic space and even on this new remastered <hes> this song is a bit darker intoned and the missing a little high end compared to some of the rest of them and i think that's probably partially just down the way they recorded it but all that being said i really liked the sound like the emotional sound of the song not necessarily sonically but it gives me like a very driving assertive plaintive feel that i mean it's a good little song. It's one of those ones that i kind of. I forget about once i move onto the next song but we're you know move on album but goodwill song in into double down because because i'm i'm asshole who talks too much but i genuinely think that if they had gotten the production a little bit different on this one allowed the instruments to breathe a little bit and they hadn't fought fought the sound of what they had in the room so much that perhaps may have been more arresting. There's there's a certain degree to which the high high and <hes> high frequency stuff in a song sorta catches your attention more upfront especially for listening on an imperfect system. That's not balanced. You're going to get more of that mid high stuff and that's where this song is kind of the thinnest from a mixing perspective and god. This is weird because they don't really get this far into like this side of the technical stuff on the on on the show usually go more into the music but yeah no. It's it's so sort of muddied in that area that if they were able to clear that up in the song was able to kind of have a bit more sparkle to it. I feel like it. This one would actually be a pretty solid contender for a single. I think is actually more down to who the recording and production than it is to the song itself okay so yeah so you're saying that if they didn't run through the tape machines so many times much like iran my v._h._s. copy of the rocketeer until it has were out could have could have been about a more famous song yeah yeah and i i mean there's any number of steps that occurred to then like you know what mike did. They use on there. I know you're trying to fit it. Just name dropping the rocketeer and v._h._s. tapes ship a quick shout out the rocketeer for being like just the best movie of the early nineties or was it late eighties yeah okay thank you also shattered jennifer connelly anyway just lifelong lifelong cross to the bare their anyhow i agree for listening public i am making shit up right now anyway but no the <hes> <hes> it sounds to me like there were so many decisions that were made in sort of the recording in arrangement process on this from what kind of river they use how much a tree verb they allowed to back into the mix how much they went direct reverb off the ambien rather than doing parallel processing for it. There's a lot of stuff that can conspires conspires to make this one kind of a muddy sounding song that may have been intentional but i think it's maybe a little bit with this permit because the bones are really good and to risk again stealing from what i wrote for later on <hes> the i don't remember this demo specifically but on the greb the remastered re there's a lot of demos which are like billy and a guitar or even some rough live drums on some of the songs and as listening to the demos and oh. I really like this song and so it's kind of what you're saying like. The bones are there. Maybe if they got another other pass or didn't alternate recording you know um them. They could have been could have been different. I mean i don't know if that'd been better ah in every in every but something to think about not necessarily specifically about this song but in general like a lot of this stuff on that you know the the special edition irradiated this remastered they have like these mono demos of the songs and that's one of the things that they talk about and a lot of songwriting eating circles. If you go to you know listen anybody talk about the technique of writing songs. The song doesn't pass just the acoustic if it's just you and one acoustic instrument if if the song isn't good in that context you're kind of polish entered no matter what you do to it. Can you sorry to is i at at the keeps using the term at the risk of but can we diverge a little bit off of the songs on the you you mentioned the remastered has the mono tra- versions of the tracks four like the beatles. I could lose like when those came out remastered. There is a big thing of like oh you get the stereo or mono and i know like older songs you know it would be. It's really cool to have the stereo version where they're more split it up and stuff but like for for a modern band like smashing pumpkins having the this is the only one that has the mono versions <hes> on it why why they're the why the mono i'm so there there's a good handful of reasons to when you when when you talk about older men's like the beatles stereo songs at that particular point in time stereo recording technology stereo playback technology were relative right new. You not brand new. That was really the first stereo hi fi unit. I want to say it's somebody. Please check me on this because i'm probably wrong but but i want to say like neighborhood in nineteen fifty four right so it'd been around for a little bit but it didn't really fall into common use for a long time so when the beatles were doing it. Was this new novel thank and pretty much any time. There's a new novel piece of musical technology or audio technology. It gets exploited to death by by the pop music at the time so a modern analog that people of the age that would be listening to this podcast mostly would remember would be the first radio hit song really made a prevalent use of on taurus's auto tune when it first came out in ninety eight was shares belief right so like the effect is right up front. It's super obvious we've all heard chair before. She doesn't sound like that what's happening. <hes> b lee right right so when stereo technology was really going to make its way into more mainstream recordings like that you end up listening to these original stereo mixes from from the beatles whereas like hey all the drums are on the left hand side and all the guitars are over here and then you find yourself listening ear buds and being like where the fuck did the drums go because because you only have your right ear button right and that that is absolutely maddening and in modern rock production technique the the stereo field one is very very wide <hes> the the the the if you <hes> if you're i guess i'll put it this sway a lot of times. When you're mixing a song you build the image up around the drums read so your most important information is coming right down the middle so you've got your main vocal. Come right down the middle ebay or kick drum. You get your snare drum and then pretty much. Everything else is degrees of off axis. Even if you have a rhythm guitar part of its own electric typically there's going to be two of those and they're going to be passed at least a bit off center right so when you have <hes> <hes> a mono version of a song that was recorded that way where you have these things that are slate duplicates of each other <hes>. There's this interesting that happens. When you sit down to mono where you can end up with face cancellation where like these saw the these two pieces of extremely similar audio or like three milliseconds out of face with each other and so you can get some really weird artifacts so so a lot of times to make sure that they've absolutely dialed everything in to make sure it carries through different listening environments rate so if you're sending the stereo signal over the radio oh airwaves or whatever actually i don't even know goes into f._m. F._m. stereo that i thought he way though i thought was manoa f._m. Stereo i think i think i i think that's of f._m. But a._m. is more as a stronger signal. I think i could be someone. Please check fact. Check me well a._m. Is amplitude campligia <unk> modulation f._m. Is frequency modulation but what that actually means in practice. I really should know because i'm a licensed ham radio operator and my dad's ads probably very disappointed at me for saying that out loud so anyhow so a lot of times what in the modern era the people will do now that most <hes> playback environments are stereo is they'll do a mono mix is sort of a worse case area right so so you'll have a set a reference speakers right that are these amazing studio monitor speakers. They got this flat frequency response. They tell you the damn truth but if you want grant damn truth for what the consumer consumers listening to assume they're listening through like one fucking earbud that has been beat to shit right so that's that's a lot of the reasons that people will do a mono reference track is just to see what the worst case scenario is because even if you are listening to something that is recorded in stereo and again going back to that example of like two of the exact same for the people playing the same rhythm guitar track wants to the left side wants to the right nightside. You're listening to that on stereo headphones. If there's any phase issues between them you're not gonna hear them because your heads in the way he had the cancellation is not something that happens in the auditory processing in your brain. It's something that happens literally in the air with the sound waves fighting each other <hes> and <hes> so that's a good way to make sure that when you've been mixing xingu stereo you haven't also been missing buffets issue so you bounce the whole thing out to mono and you're like where the fuck did that guitars go. You're out of phase so it's som- tom think this specifically so it sounds. It's something that happens pretty much in production all the time and then for whatever reason they had that that mono tape sitting around well we will throw this on the c._d. It'll cost what like fifty bucks to transfer something and is there people want to listen to it. It's probably probably what what happened yeah and more more likely than not. They didn't actually probably mix it any differently than the main thing that ends up happening happening though is when you some amano assists pardon me some stereo signal down to mono mono is that when you're listening in stereo something is panned all the way the one side and has no duplicate on the other side is going to appear quiet so when you're taking something that is designed to be played back in the stereo space and mixed to be played back genus pacing imbalance it down to mono you can end up with different details kinda poking forward so that that can be an interesting thing is like oh well there was this texture that it was often the right speaker that i really only felt more than heard before but now i can hear it what if undiscovered her okay all right jar tangent over rent rent reported the question sorry that was a that was a long all right <hes>. We're ready to move onto crestfallen. Yes and all. I really have to say about this. One is is that if this hadn't come from the smashing pumpkins this would have been an absolutely spot on and perfect pop song for nineteen ninety eight yeah. I really don't have much for this one <hes> well. The only thing that we're going to me out about it is that it is the pumpkins that that's the the only thing that that strikes me about this. This doesn't feel any weird to me than like steal my sunshine by latin okay yeah again. It's like oh what band dan got billy corgan guest guest vocals yeah yeah exactly right. It doesn't sound this -serily wig like a pumpkin. Song definitely definitely sounds like billy singing cool little side. Let's look at the liner notes and <hes> so billy says the tune is a piano ballad through and through despite my attempts here here and previously and demos to electrify its sorrows that said i'm partial to the songs cadence even if i can't say why as has the melody embodies something not easily found in my various searches in a minor and although although i will admit it is a bit syrupy the lyrics lyrics as a whole are direct at least represent the undaunted heart in an album where so much is broken yet in this one does have a an honest feeling feeling of being very intact <hes> th there's nothing particularly per me particularly challenging about it. <hes> the one thing that i think is kind of interesting to note listening to it from my perspective at least is that these piano parts what's that he's doing. They're definitely even though i think he actually learned piano. I the way that he's forming. These changes seems to be very colored. The fact that he's been <hes> playing guitar for so long okay the the the very way that he's forming these kind of feels somewhere in between a piano partner art and guitar part to me <hes> and that that's like a really niche nuance to point out but there's something about the way that he's building in these that doesn't feel distinctly like a piano part feels tinged guitar direction which is interesting in unique. I i just checked on the three issue of for door. There is a crestfallen <hes> it's labeled matt walker reimagined <hes> but it's it has a lot more of that. It might be some real drums in there but there's a lot there. There's it sounds like it's real drums but it's with a lot of affects on top like maybe through drum pad kind of thing not. It's not so much <hes> drum machine if you if you can if if there's a difference there but it does kind of it sounds like it was a real like an electric remix. Somebody made like they pulled. All the parts arts l. the things apart and spiced in things and then you know push back together to make a remix song it doesn't it really sounds like something that it sounds way less like the smashing pumpkins than a lot of the other songs on this album yeah and the field i get checking out that reimagined and version of it is <hes> it makes sense to me that my walker played drums for filter okay because the the drumbeats kinda feel in line with some filters more prevalent songs like amen nice shot <hes> obviously it's absent a lot of the more like bombastic guitar dr work that went along with them but yeah i i can definitely kinda see how the it's sort of smears the lines there yeah i i agree with billy it the way they did. It was less less. Electron is probably better. Yeah yeah keeps the it keeps us on more honest in this particular case. I mean it's funny because the drums are pretty electronic in the original version but <hes> the there were done tastefully. I think that's been a thing that i've been noticing lots of over the course of this is the most of the songs and i say most for very important reason <hes> are fairly tasteful with their incorporation of electronic elements all right well. Let's move onto apple's. Plus oranges oranges spelled with a very fancy j. apples misspelt. Oh yeah that's right it's l._s. Yeah apell's in iran jaz <hes> <hes> yeah this one's for me that does not incorporate t- <hes> electronic elements particularly tasteful or subtle way not really a fan of this one as a pumpkin song. Yeah i think if you gave this to a different band then look life life would be good here. I feel like not as a pumpkin. Song is a perfectly fine ninety eight pump song. Sorry ninety eight pop song. I i feel the same as they do about crestfallen <hes> in a weird way. I'm reminded a little bit of like an earlier dirtier version asian of muse when i think of songs map of the problematic okay i could see that <hes> but but it's without sort of some of the sparkle and bombast that makes that so ask influences yeah that sort of more theatrical element isn't really present there. It's just okay at the drums or rockaway sixteenths and go. Let's let's look at billy corgan lender notes and for this part because it is a conversation between billion fan brian and i will dramatize this because it's really hard to read otherwise <music> if you don't have to different voices so billy corgan says one time i was walking down the street and was confronted by a fan. You do realize that you've stolen that title from pink floyd song yes of course so. Why didn't you change it but i did and how so when it's the same by using the danish spelling of oranges got him my portrayal billy corgan. It was horrible but hopefully so bad that it's has no. It's no longer offensive so he. He says he goes on to say <hes> said to say but this joke was lost on him. <hes> so many jokes have been lost on so many of the put upon that aside eight-plus a plus has the distinction of being the first song written for adore demo doubt during a session with matt walker as other music being put together for what would become the ransom mm soundtrack but denisa earlier. That's the other song was the first song furnace <hes> so i think he talked about <hes> to sheila being the first recorded but i think he's saying this was the first one written <hes> the first take okay so there's written in regards to sheila was was the i take on the first day of the album all right. I just want to make sure whereas i think if i was confused in other people would definitely be confused definite but <hes> yeah fun and facts <hes> smashing pumpkins earliest billy corgan was going to do the ransom soundtrack starring mel gibson while i remember watching that movie with my mother mother now wow okay cool. I'm back in folsom california the years two thousand and one <hes>. Do you think i should watch it. I've never seen it. I mean go billy. Also says and here is another story. The famed composer was to share the album's cover with had had me summary kicked off of it. Why because he claimed the work i had done was not quote music and he would not be sullied by it to him and to you. I say it is better to make original noise. Then lukewarm adapted themes trolled from the greats to he. I dedicate this him for what if his shining erstwhile baton. Tom refuse to shudder at our collective rebellion yeah so he's not really happy with james horner because that's oh let's the guy he was. He's talking about there. James horner did the soundtrack titanic abe believed the year after i believe that's the year after ransom for a minute i get adam confused with james newton howard who did most of shamans movies but yeah it was a different well. Okay yeah yeah the level of pretense kind of make sense well. Well yeah <hes> i'm i'm gonna come down firmly on the side of billy even though as a kid i really enjoyed the southampton song of the titanic soundtrack rex about that just got me but i've also brian on intentional connection james horner composer of the soundtrack for the movie rocketeer jesus. We've come full circle in one episode. Okay sorry i'm just the internet is a wonderful and terrible thing. Sorry sorry no. I'm just i'm just scrolling through james horner's braveheart apollo thirteen monje look almost closest <hes> yeah he he did a lot of movies ron howard so there was a connection. You did a lot of movies in general when your wikipedia page for all the albums that you've worked on has to be split up by decade. You've got a lot of albums. You didn't allow to work. Yes so apples oranges. I'm not really a fan it did for me. This one feels too much like pro-tech now. <hes> there's nothing abjectly wrong with it and again i think from a different act would really enjoy it. It's just finding this on a on a pumpkins. Record feels a little more jarring than some of the other entries on this record all right well. Let's move on to pug. I really really like this and like. I put this one in favour contention for me. I don't think it is the favorite but but i really dig this one allot all right. I mean i think for me. Stealing from later on this is a good song by different artists odor radio. I just i don't see it as pumpkins thing so the ways for me that it kind of takes the right box for being pumpkins begins is <hes> the way that they qatar riff is built. It doesn't start as guitar of but the nerve is layered on top of it where he's got this this sort of very punk rock salt rod. I'll rock approach to carrying one note throughout the entire riff even though the baseline sort of climbing around like it's got that movement and as awkward as it is. It feels very pumpkins to me. The thing that is weird is when they get to the chorus <hes>. I'm reminded of the band mu that i ever showed the deal back forever. Go yeah ages ago <hes> for for anybody who's not aware of their a danish <hes> space rock shoe gaze band i against the best way to describe it as sort of progressive when you think progressive rock think that but pop music but also played the rock band's instrumentation just a bunch of since so like it's it's like very complicated pop music and kind of get that same vibe from this where there's nothing super super super challenging about it but the second you start to dig into it from a musical mechanical level the there's there's some like weird challenging shed and that might potentially make the song actually to a more casual. You're just sound off putting and even to train beer. It's a little off putting but at least for me me it's it's in a way where it's like well. I wanna pay closer attention to this. What are what are they doing. Why you know and i think that's kind of in keeping with me. Liking maybe the most musically self-indulgent saw on on a pumpkins record share and you know and i'm sure her i gave him more time. I could hook in better but <hes> here's here's the thing though like i remember oh god was was it silver over. Fuck that your nose windowpane that you weren't a huge fan of and then i did revisit it and it grow meal more. It's better yeah. I don't see this one doing that like i think this one like you either arrive to it and are on board with it or maybe it's just not for you. It's a weird one yeah <hes> yeah. I don't know i'm into it. Though it that lights my fire speaking of lighting simmons fire billy says a tale hail of sexual missing therapy no dressed up as delusional pop song done correctly pug might have been a single but like a few castaways at lingers lingers in the hallways of also rans here too is traces of the mighty flood who was partial to this tracks menace and wished the album had more of this kind of lope and not less per my ears i favor the chorus and the wistful acoustic 'isms that accompany languor with a nice qatar figure courtesy of james saint james james saint yeah it the the the chorus in the song is a much-needed lift right. It's is very heavy. It's very repetitive. It's tens it's dark. It's kinda grimy and then there's this kind of moment of unbalanced happiness in there without that the song wouldn't really be made for me. I think that's part of what hooked me into like miss. One is the chorus specifically all right <hes>. Let's move on to do the tale of dusty and pistol pete. I'm not entirely sure out feel about this one. I like it. I do too did their things about about it. Feel so incredibly nineteen ninety eight <hes> li like i feel and did this statement may may potentially piss people off. I feel like if this song had been pared down to a three minute radio run that it's only like five degrees off of being sugar array okay. I could see that something like that. Yeah they like. Obviously you have much more character for vocalist and better lyricist in in in billy corgan corgan but like it's for for me. This one's almost a little too digestible. It's fun. I like it. I like it. Just it. Just doesn't grab me the same way as some of the other ones yeah. I think that's for sure. I don't know how much though like i like it hooks with me but is that because i've been through this kind of desserts of you know. It's not great but i don't know by comparison. It's it's much better than i don't know. <hes> <hes> doesn't matter i like it. I'm not gonna apologize for it. <hes> all right billy says ostensibly a narrative covering the fallout of a murder as the last asked has been murdered by her bow and his rewarded in forever being haunted by her scream. What this says about the state of my romantic life circa nineteen ninety-seven i'll leave you to decide decide but suffice to say. I've never harmed anyone. <hes> the weapon of oh so many words being accepted all that trifling aside i recommend if he played over the sound kind of my funeral pyre for i love the sambre blue of the cords and they will go well with the smoke. It's funny because like in a very appropriately l. e. pumpkins kind of way. It's dark but also kind of joyous along with the notes you know i. I think you're gonna protest a little too much of like you know i. I've never harmed anyone except for my words i say uh-huh because some would someone dies. You're going to think that he heard someone but <hes> all right move on over to any dog okay so this. This may be controversial. This is my favorite song on the record. Okay okay brian. I disagree and that is yeah and that's what makes this fun. <hes> know this because you're wrong. I prob- i will admit i probably will knock this down a couple of points because because it's get stuck in my head i don't enjoy being stuck in my head so take part of comes from <hes> <hes> just out and he dog. We had just like so for me. It's the against the court is it's the chorus more than the verses that the just <hes> it feels like the most just peaceful musically correct piece of the album even though billy's here mumble and his way through yeah. It's like it feels like a demo where he's not trying to. You know mumbling. I don't know this this one for me. Passes the acoustic straight legged it sticks in membrane. I really enjoy the middle. I it just feels. It feels kind of completed. I really liked the song i don't for me. Okay so totally little tangent. The britney spears toxic that thing gets stuck in my head for like two days straight. If i hear a second of that that noise <hes> so and i feel like this is like the second place in songs it gets stuck in my head and i want them out so that's that's. That could be just me though i mean this. One i think is sort of comparatively milk toast like it's a it's a little boring compared to the rest of what's on the album and it sorta repetitive but again there's like there's a certain just sort of purity and simplicity to it that kind of works for me because because unlike the milk toast panel boring kind of guy you know yeah please since come through indian scum all right <hes> so in the lawyer notes billy says presented in no less original form. Any dog was cut full just once it's and any attempt thereafter was deemed a failure reading into this. I'd say that it shows my anything can happen approach that so shaped albums outcome despite the fretting that went on over the more juiced up tracks as a player character. Any dog is like many women i've met and found fascinating being among those who are willing to trade their bodies so readily for something much more valuable like say attention or the appearances of love. I'm glad billy is happy. Now in his relationships feels like based on his instagram instagram because it seems like there's a lot going on back in the day. It seems like he had a he had a tumultuous run of the nineties and at least it seems like he's he's were hit writing this now in current days where he's more happy. He's like yeah. I didn't like you know this. This reminded me of a lot of bad add women or bad relationships or whatever that he's not healthy and least he acknowledges it. You know there's <hes> there's there's a certain certain health and acknowledging a lack of alp right. I mean i don't really have much more to say about the song it is simple and i i mean. I don't know why but i just i love. It and i don't know why but i don't love it and that's fine speaking of bryant opinion. We'll talk about the song shame. I have such a hard time with this one because musically i absolutely love it instruments everything about the sound of this on yeah instrumentally instrumentally i love this but it's literally just shush shush shush a shame yeah the delivery of that lyric really kind of takes the wind out of the sales sales of this song for me and it's not necessarily that he's singing badly or anything like that. I literally just don't like that. He's doing sort of shallow shala la la kennedy right. He's going for the emphasizing. The words almost sort of scatting gotta deal but it's just on this as like e useless washy syllable raid like there's there's no like rhythmic potency to a the sound is a fade rain. Is that like when people say like <hes> <hes> i think a good song example right now but you frigging <hes> get rocky horror picture some troubling within pation right when you're hanging on the ps right and there's actually something close to it. They're going to be sense of rhythm to it. <hes> yeah i it makes me makes me grumpy because i really like the rest i agree with you. One hundred percent on all that it's instrumentally really cool and <hes> it reminds me of <hes> of yeah yeah <hes> in in a way that makes me really happy because it sounds like such more like polished capable get out strong band doing it <hes> but finch billy says in the liner notes also kind of a live track there is a he started central also the like a whole new paragraph whole new topic but whatever you can do what he wants. He has golden also kind of a live track. There is a bit of a slight loyd of hand here as they went back and overdubbed some of the things immediately afterwards capturing the same feeling with a bit more technical proficiency <hes> story wise. The song's recording is well known. I woke up that morning. Wrote the song as soon as awake and pretty much drove straight to the studio. The version here is not yet two hours old and left untempered report with dad's an interesting note about the recording process because when you go into do over dubs it's definitely sort of a strike while the iron hot the thing if you want it to sound like it was recorded in the same space they just the smallest changes can have a huge difference lake. Were we're literally you can go in and bump the microphone. Three degrees off of the alignment to the room was in before and all of a sudden you end up with a completely different sound and i know that sounds overly overly dramatic but it is one hundred percent true <hes> so like did the less you can change from your main recording session to any punches zor overdubbed that you then come in to do <hes> the better of a time. You're going to have and i i mean. I assume that anything that's gone gone to radio or you know gone to mass. Publishing shing is had some amount of over dubbing but this one wasn't particularly obvious to me <hes> so that that is a unique recording tidbit. That kind of makes me like the saga little better. You're not really a fan of this overall but <hes> or you know i guess in terms of the the vocals kind of tainted a bit but <hes> all right. Let's move on to behold. Hold the nightmare man this song ever sound different than i thought it would. When i read the title kinda has yeah 'cause. It's mayor as in like a horse m. a. a. r. e. e. even with that. I was still expecting something a bit more bombastic. This is almost spacey at the beginning. You know yeah is sorta. Sorta sorta like this weird ven diagram between bowie and the carpenters yeah bowie that makes sense yeah. This one is imminently digestible. It doesn't bother me and the way the more the more digestible songs on this record do but it also doesn't do a lot for me. Let's see what billy has to say <hes> yes. It's about about a horse but a mythical one as one that drives through your dreams. The drums are double tracked and mono each set aside by the far realms of stereo which which gives the track a swish e feeling that if given more thought might have been abandoned i guess in retrospect the lack of a solid foundational rhythm is part of what makes the tracks ethereal correo quality stand up for one could argue. It's imperfection is inexorably linked to timelessness and as a lyric. I've faced the fathoms deep still seems like a particularly good way to some of anyone's quest for equity in the heart in the heart stuff and the heart death for it appears. There is no other way that i can tell recorded in chicago go and quickly and rarely touched in l._a. So when he talks about the fact that they did that recording yeah no great did that goes back. You're saying exactly exactly what i was talking about with the guitars where you can end up with phase <hes> kind of inconsistencies between the left and right side when you have these two separate mono sounds and and this is an example of them using that intentionally i use the word nationally useless either loosely there because it kind of sounds like they weren't thinking about the consequences consequences but but it adds texture that song that <hes> you obviously wouldn't work if it was this big aggressive driving rock song before what it is is that works pretty well so it's a unique take. It's kind of a cool one. I think i need to spend more time with it to really get effectively fraternally not really settle honestly. I think this is to to adore what like space boy was to <hes> designees dream. It's weird eh charming because it's weird but it's almost more the kitchy kind of weird than the weird creepy gothic kind of weird so i think it really depends on your mood. I i haven't even run into this one at the right time to be in the mood. I want all the different levels of weird that smashing pumpkins touches on. I wanna full rest. It goes gothi weird because this could be more of a spiderweb all right <hes>. Let's move on scatter plot move onto four martha so yeah when when i was first listening to this record for martha came on assumed it was going to be the last track because the flake the book ends of to sheila and for martha i don't know and and it was another calm song but this ends up being mean more or less a yacht rock ballad in the way that i thought take me down would be at the end the first half of yeah melancholy this sort of is leaning more into that right they. They're just like yeah. Let's let's do a gentle ballot and and listen even bother to make it weird. We'll this. Martha is the first name of his mother so this is for his mother that make accents to kind of not approach did not add all the weird crazy stuff for this one yeah but then just the journey that then goes on right because because it seems it seems like it's going to go through the length more or less goes through the length of a normal pop song staying in normal pop song and then the level of bombast begins to grab until like it's just beating you over the head. It's this one's are great emotional journey because it caught me by surprise i i was expecting it to be just done and then it turns into a late grower you know is not one of those grower songs. We're you know in the beginning. This is going to keep on doing it. Just kind of it's it's comes in the back half. I don't know where those good very emotionally. Effective is the other thing i will say like the the core choice and everything like the billy has is a tendency to go for core choices when he's writing out the bones of these songs that are intentionally weird or jarring. He didn't do that on this one. He picked. I really pleasant notes and chords. Put together and allowed that to do the talking and i really like it for that. All right <hes> in the wider notes. It's billy says included in the box set are too early takes four. Martha is abandoned. I pol through complexities and flashes of dignity. I've included did these as a rare document into how we worked together as you can see much of the songs timber charts are already drawn. What matters now is how they play out against one another to create pathos house or in this case respect as among the most personal my songs i think the wear stance for itself as a way of explanation yet. I will tell you that martha louise louise isn't credible soul obviously not judging by how i turned out mind you for. I am flawed too but by the way that she's never left <hes> um wow what a what a touching your crying. Yes seriously yeah that i'm i'm wiping a single drop testosterone arm from at the moment yeah but <hes> yeah that was <hes> that was incredibly poignant and i i i. I actually feel like i've done. I'm not doing a very good service to those alternate versions like i didn't go through and listen to them and compare the two <hes>. That's something i need to do. After this. We'll honestly it seems that could be a really really wonderful opportunity for because honestly what song is he going to really spend more time and attention on getting nice and goodbye to a similar to <hes> with with trent reznor and his grandmother and like the the day the world went away one of my favorite so it's weird people tend to put in a little effort with when it's something that's care about funny that explains this show and how it doesn't sound that way. I'm kidding. Grossly is god well. Thank you for the levity in that moment because i was feeling a little emotional but yeah i mean. I think it's a good little song. It's does i think does what it sets out to do. Yeah yeah and i think this when is sort of akin to some of the previous records being the the window pane or the silver fuck the thing that really goes on for quite some time and really covers. There's a lot of ground and <hes> for for whatever reason this one is definitely in contention for my favorite. Song of the wreckage wasn't the one this time so we've we've broken the trend brian. No longer always picks the long song at the end of the record but there there's a certain soundscape gape. Sorta like again is cheesy as it is. I think the only greg word is journey. This song covers a hell of a lot of ground and if you're paying attention <hes> it's a it's a great ride to go on. Let's move onto blank page so i've been trying to figure out kind of if this song what the <hes> what the analog is if there even is one and yeah i think the closest thing thing i can think of if i had to describe this song to someone without playing it would be like think of like the dream easiest slope pink floyd song that you can think of off the top of your head and then just subtract all the guitars okay. I think that works as explanation. I it's it's just very textural extra very floaty very sort of meander yeah and i think that it in terms of like <hes> it's about like his marriage ending to kind of melancholy you know it fits that theme and there's there's a couple a couple of specific details in this kind of got my attention <hes> they scott towards the end this sort of swelling at nineteen eighty soundings pad synthetic went wrong <hes> sort of sound and there's a couple of moments <hes> where it's got these i just little bits of hesitance as he comes off the he's so you're there's like wall and it seems like it's about for another cycle and it sorta just holds for a moment and there's this sort of like hesitant addison's and it's funny. If it's talking about the the end of his marriage think about lake sort of not to wax poetic here but sort of the the parallels between that where you're you're all sudden sorting starting the new life all over again like okay. Where do i find my footing rates. I feel like sort of the subject. Matter is reflected in the performance of the instruments <hes> <hes> which is unique without giving too much away for the next song like this is really the final song in the track of seventeen seconds and there is some music involved with that but it's really not a song <hes> this is. This is the final moment that we get to hear billy <hes> so <hes>. It's just kind of an interesting. I think it's a good ender for the album. Yeah <hes> and you know without necessarily talking about the next one. I think that if i were to set this thing up on playlist they might actually emit the last track <hes> because of how appropriate this ending is the i guess on the the vinyl pressings the this is the lasso. Yes that is correct yeah. The the last track is omitted but i mean they they sort of fade out of this suon and if you're going to do that right at the end of the record like yeah sure hell yeah okay <hes> so in the lower notes billy says a miracle the blank page was never meant to be a song of the conventional invention sense but an instrumental called forty eight courts in honor of its own cycling sequence a chance encounter changed all that as i stuffed a poem i just ridden into my pocket and then taking it out during a technical disaster. I started to sing along with music filtering out of tossed pair of headphones from there. I went went line by line. I'm proud to say. I think that this might be the album's best. I'm sure i'll find someone to argue the point but that too is like so many oranges left in the sun and he spelt oranges the way he spelled it in apples and oranges all the danish racial. I can't do it danish accent scenario. If i try to just turns into swedish chef fair enough <hes> <hes> now. I think if i had spent a little more time with lyrics on this one that i i might have more to say about it. All i know is that it does have a hilarious that he talks about the forty eight chords right because it just doesn't have that repeating patterns got the same hesitation in the cords and whatnot and i think as much as it seems like he was going to be wrote something with forty. The accords beat the x ray. It's sort of a challenge is is you know music. Groups will do like dad a brighter song in a weird time signature or whatever ever but <hes> is much as it seems like maybe they they almost do that on sort of daring ended up sort of supporting the subject matter pretty nicely <hes> <hes> down to the performance structure everything because that that sort of meandering feeling of lost potential for new opportunity like league. It's i it's not that it's emotionally vague the way but the courts together it's just that it does a lot of emotions one after the other and that just feels really really really appropriate all right. Let's move onto seventeen. This is some piano at the end. It's a bit unresolved and then also cuts off very abruptly toyota. It's a song question mark. I'm dying for more info 'cause. I feel like you got it. Billy says in the remember liner notes. I'm ready to reveal that. This small offering is bliss and gone the track. I've so rashes left off of a door and what precipitated the decision might be found in an encounter. I had with producer and friend rick rubin in whom management had asked to survey ah progress which in that time had ground to a standstill whoa he said hearing the looped version of the greater song whoa in this i took whoa to mean not art good and abandoned it like many others that were worthy west of which was rick's oversight of let me give the world to you which the label had pegged as their only hope to sell more plastic mastic so let the circle be complete because if you're reading this then you've made them happy. Would you start to contemplate the the moral difficulties of consuming art yeah so just a little bit of background on some of the stuff. He's talking about there. There yeah song called blistering gone which apparently was supposed to be in this slot as the final song and then billy says <hes> rick rubin said said whoa and i guess i guess it's kind of a big leap to go hear someone say whoa and you just go out. They hated it and then axed it without any kind of like well. Whoa good. What do you think like you don't have any further conversation other than just whoa and then you you kill a song that you probably beloved. It's <hes> that's an interesting way of of doing things and then he also talks about. Let me give the world to you is a song that was originally going to be the first single. Oh is a song that was written by corgan and then rick rubin kind of was brought in to kind of pump it up a little bit you know it was going to be the first single and corgan didn't want it to be the first single so he just said it's off the album completely to kind of keep his control of over thanks sure so that's kind of the quick and dirty version of that <hes> but there's these two songs that were supposed to be on until the last minute and we'll actually get to hear later on in future episodes took it to hear a redone version of let me give the world to you so this this one is known as the prick ruben version and then there's another machine version gotcha and then there's also the the dea door out. Take on the special edition. There's let me give the world to you as well as a blistering gone. Damn yeah so those are the original suing adore version cool interesting well that makes me want to dig into those just a hair more so <hes> so yeah. Let's talk about the amazon whole <hes> <hes>. I feel like i've oh yeah holy hell. We've arrived at the end of the record as i kind of. I guess i'll be probably restating a lot of the stuff that i've said through the episode so i will give the the ban props they have. They've done it. They did the impossible. They beat the sophomore slump that so many bands like have their second album and it can falls flat. They waited until album for to do it. They they <hes> senior citizens more so <hes> yeah it happens to all many great bands. They have one bad it one subpar album there some gems in it but <hes> you know overall so far. This is my least. I can say this my least favorite album that we've covered by smashing pumpkins for the little bits that i know from the future. It's probably going to remain my least favorite. I think that's the i've listened. I don't know where exactly <hes> let me. Give the world to you falls in the track list the original track list but i think that if that song was in there it's a very it's a very strong song and blessed in gone is also another strong song that i think if both of those were in the album it would make the album that much stronger. Maybe even you know maybe even removing some of the tracks that don't like as much would make it better for me personally but that's the power of a me thing but that could be a thing where you swap them out for some of the demos as you don't like and all of a sudden this turns into a better collection yeah because it's very easy for <hes> a bad apple to spoil the bunch in in something like this it it feel no not to completely ear but just like this album simpson in a delicate balance because this hongs are delicate yeah and yeah and that pretty much wraps i i've said all the other things in throughout the episode already but i do want to say that if this is your favorite album and i'm sure it is as someone like if there's always that album that if you buy it in your formative years and you always from generation you know you have to listen to the same album a few times over. That's you have that in like three other albums like you grow to like this. You growed like whatever you have <hes>. I i would love to hear <unk>. Someone who genuinely loves us. Album is like one of their favorites and i i wanna hear what's what things missing out on what things i need to focus on and i'll give it another shot and try you know we keep that in my head while listen to it so i i want to like this one i wanted. I wanted to come into this. One like all right this is this is the bad apple the of the bunch. I want to redeem it and that's what i tried to do going into it and i just i. I couldn't quite make it. That's that's but i that's what i think in general so i will agree with you that i think this one's probably my least favorite of the bunch that being said i really do think it has a lot to offer. It's a <hes> approaching into some production techniques that are pretty unique there the <hes> the thing that i actually really really like about this album is that for me. It is a really really wonderful time capsule of nineteen ninety so for me. Did this album makes a lot more sense in the context of nineteen ninety eight. A lot of the stylistic decisions make more sense today like ahead. If it's time right yeah i think i think it was fairly well ahead of its time but on when i think back aesthetically stuff that was happening around the same time period when you think about <hes> think about trend doing the perfect drug right around the same time i think it was the year before i remember eight or perhaps ninety seven ninety seven yes so is year before ray where you have this sort of gothic approach to to what's going on there. I think about baz luhrmann's version of romeo and juliet the came mm outright around then where there's this sense of sort of heightened reality and imperfect polish rate. It was really prevalent in some of the more are elderly even wanna say avant-garde because it's not even that weird but like just the pieces of pop culture that were coming out that we're just a little edgy. Did this feels feels very appropriate to all of request. I did a quick search on google for ninety nine hundred ninety eight rockets <hes> lenny kravitz fly away <hes> mhm pretty fly for a white guy by the offspring. I don't wanna miss a thing by aerosmith. <hes> one week naked ladies celebrity skin by whole <hes> <hes> cakes never there <hes> so that's kind of generally the you know there's there's some marilyn manson is some rob. Zombie and carnegie wins my favorite game. It's a great song <hes> so yeah. That's the kind of stuff that other stuff that's happening in rock at least yeah and i think what what the the gang you know kind of accomplished here was putting out now that existed very much on the border between green rock and pop while committing being neither and i think that if they committed more one direction or the either it probably would have better the record even if they had gone a little popular but i'm really glad they didn't choose to go that way because and frankly and i'm not trying to make any insults here at all billy is not a pop vocalist. He lacks the control and and the the particularly the tonal control wpro pitch is almost always in tune. He's just got this very piercing. Grading tone that i think is part of what throws a lot of people off the band and and it makes so much sense in the context of rock then when you get into this popular territory. It's like okay well. What's this asshole. Do i agree with that and so i feel like this is now from that had a lot offer. Artistically the didn't quite come to fruition correctly but when you go back to the <hes> the ideas of talking about this maybe being someone's favourite record right <hes> <hes> if all draw a parallel here. I've got a handful of like musician co workers who really can't stand anything from nine inch nails past the fragile. Even the fragile was a tipping point for some people or is like for anybody to listen to the fragile like oh. He's gone soft. I'm like are are you out of your fucking mind but we were you and i were introduced. I mean yes the song wish but like the first album that you and i both sit down with nine. Inch nails sales is with teeth and that is a transitional period for the band. It's the first time he's come back sober right. There's a lot of people who do not like it and yeah yeah so imagine you were a child born in one thousand nine hundred eighty four right and your parents won't go let you go by whatever damn c._d. You want so so finally it's one thousand nine hundred eighty or fourteen years old and you got your your fucking work-permit like i'll just go miyoko by something that's going to piss my pants missile off right and so you pick up this record you have no previous knowledge of this band and you're under this weird gothic rock pop band. That's that's that's what my my perception of. Smashing pumpkins is based only on this one record okay yeah. Tell me that like an angsty. Fourteen year enrolled in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight wouldn't think this was really motherfucking read now. I think that's that's true. So that is my defensive adore it. It was it was of it's time. I think that's a good defense. One of the things that could have happened around this time. Is that <hes> jamesy ha released a solo album called. Let it come down. <hes> we're not going to go into it really at all but it's more of an acoustic kind of country style how very very different from this album and especially with pumpkins as a whole but definitely different from this album so just you you have something to check out. If you have an extra time it's i'll put a link on youtube <hes> to a youtube video. That is all definitely because i couldn't find anywhere else like i. I just google play. I couldn't find it <hes>. I've always i've always liked kind of contributions to the band's. I would love to see what he does without extra influence. You know so <hes> yeah. The the next thing that i have is some listener thoughts and responses. If we want to dive into those all right so the from read it there a poster son of son of tom they've been kind of going went through and you know they're a few months behind to like some older posts. I'll get new comments <hes> but just kind of competent commenting on the things that they're t- they're listening to the feedback and mayonnaise in between chords is automatic. He plays the song on a crappy cheap guitar that is there's a constant feedback if you stopped playing it so there are spots where he just let's it scream on its own and then he also says <hes> he didn't look at every album but he knows at least the first five studio albums including pisces have at least one misspelled song on purpose of it yeah <hes> windowpane mayonnaise. Hello kitty cat go oppa ghost use apples oranges and then then nothing on machina but then machine to has innocence and the white spider as it's a good run it. It's it's funny because that actually kind of turned into a trope of all rock and having to a lesser extent new bet nu metal bands in the years. Here's that followed billy once again. Setting trans- <hes> we got an email from vincent <hes> and he's and this is something that comes up <hes> quite a bit in comments over the place but that figure it'd be good just to bring it up on the show and give our explanation the do you do. You think you can play your analysis to pisces. He's a scary. There are some great songs that i would be really interested to hear your take on so we talked about pisces briefly and we kind of we mentioned schnitt little bit in in mellon. It was either melancholy or no his siamese dream. We mentioned it was over siamese dream. We didn't really there's some good songs longs in there but it wasn't a those songs. We're not assembled to be on that album. They were all built assembled to be on different albums and then they were put together other for this because they were kind of leftover pieces and frankenstein so you know it works on its own as a standalone thing but for what we're doing we're trying to really just focus on the main studio albums specifically with special pumpkins. There's a lot of stuff like this series will be very long for <hes> simple. Yeah we'll be stuck in the world of of pumpkins for rolling time and even though pumpkins are great. It's the same band for a real long time just the wall if we got into all the b sides and everything would turn into too literal years yeah by that point it was absolutely no lack of love a respect for smashing pumpkins. I'm going to be ready to do something different yeah. That's that's being set. Yes that being said. It's garrett to solve album. We we did do a quick kind of just chat about it back in <hes> siamese dream episode but <hes> yeah that's kind of the general thing. There's going to be some of those yeah. There's there's more besides and rarities albums by smashing pumpkins that we're not gonna have time to touch on over one of them especially with the re masters have all those. It's like six discs and so it's i do have an idea that i want to that. Were there bryan and i've been talking a little bit about about doing something with pisces in the future that wouldn't be in the main feed <hes> but we'll try and up to date update you all when we get something more concrete. Yes stay tuned more more more info to come on that something. We'll definitely have in there yeah. We we will spend a little more time with <hes> <hes> next we have jeremy who emailed us so he's saying that we asked a question about what band took a while to get into or abandoned gut took a while to get into the ten thousand days episode <hes> what immediately came to his mind was bjork's maduekwe singer. Bjork is one of those artists who cds that they will buy without question <hes> she is that good. I distinctly remember listening to madurai for the first time in thinking. Why the hell did i buy this and then after a few listens. I couldn't stop listening to it it. The the entire albums vocals there are no other instruments <hes> interesting so in my email response to jeremy i mean we kind of had some back and forth and stuff but <hes> bjork was is one of those artists that i know that i i. I have not given her a chance growing up. She was that crazy lady who was just screaming on when she was the musical guest on s._n._l. And then there is like the swan dress thing yeah and <hes> tina fey doing the pressure on celebrity jeopardy and peaking music so i have not given her a good chance real her fair shot what <hes> i asked him. You know hey so what you know. Tell me tell me what to listen to and all you know. Give give me an album so he recommended ended the greatest hits so i did listen to it once through briefly probably still not a fair shot. There were like two songs that i was like oh. This is a pretty good and then the rest. I'm just like can i move on now so you know it's you know maybe not for me. There was but there's some stuff and i i'll definitely keep an ear out for more <hes> more bjork and i do want to listen to this. One madala that is ovals thing history estimated at the very least from a production standpoint. It sounds very interesting. <hes> just just in general a lot of artists that have come out of iceland in the last twenty to thirty years. I mean how be bork's dorks been gone for a minute but but a lot of artists stick a managed to have a very different <hes> approach to western music a lot of the other western countries as he ended end up with a lot of interesting stuff like syria rose and <hes> and bjorg which can take a little while to get used to and i haven't given bjork a whole lot of time but the experiences that i've had with other bands from from the region makes me want to give her a little more time what i do know is that like some of her more popular aheads again making a reference to michelle gandara here who believed the video for her song human behavior <hes> but yeah that that <hes> that song is probably a pretty approachable one <hes> <hes> it's got this really sold lead a good baseline and whatnot and she's more or less just i singing poem over the top of it but there's something remarkably effective about it. Bjork is not someone that i've given. I think the change c._d. She deserves either but there are a couple of songs of hers. That have absolutely caught me <hes> yeah. I think it's worth taking the time so basically weekly. Thanks for reminding us that yeah existence i. That's the kind of stuff i love is like you know remind me of or in this case they reminded. We have somebody that i have just not. I've written off like out. Not you know that's i'm you know that's not really what i'm into but you know it's obviously he's a so he he's a fan of inch nails and i'm a big fan of nails and he also has this affinity for bjork so i was like well. I have to give it give at least a shot so that's i really enjoy is like oh yeah i. I need to revisit this. I need to revisit that. I need to go into this with a more open mind than but i was told i need to to to think about it when i was growing up sure in if i can just piggyback on that for one second i think the overlap there specifically with nine inch nails when you're talking about a hyper talented <hes> experimental musician raid there there is a lot a lot of common ground between the between trent and bjork <hes> and i remember once seeing a listener comment talking about how it was weird that suggesting progressive of bluegrass album after a nine inch nails album. It's because the dude who is running. That band is a hyper talented experimental musician. It's not actually actually bluegrass dog. He's basically acoustic nine. Inch nails is the the there's so much more than just the actual will sound of a certain musician that that goes into everything that makes up their body of work and there's so much more overlap between these people because you think of this dude. I'm talking about christie. Lee and bjorklund and trent is being in these very very different worlds in yes but also very much home and i also piggybacking on your piggyback in general. I really like like winning. Artists can do multiple genres. I mean this special pumpkins and the doors. I really bad example because i don't think it quite executed as well well but like trent reznor. Is these got the screaming stuff. He's got the mellow stuff. He's got more straight rock. You know he does all different kinds of he touches on different genres resume. It's all still nationales. <hes> i like it when an artist does that where they can they can touch different genres and not be just confined to just metal adult or just rock or just skoll or whatever butts it touches on multiple things and it's still stands like that that person or that band you will definitely get that from bjork it in my limited experience with her. Yes one hundred percent yeah. <hes> jeremy also goes under safe for a special episode. He'd love to hear our take on apex twin especially the piano songs from the album and i think it's trucks d. r. u. Q k s droops or something like that. I just have a quick note and this is not for pedantry. This is actually a question is is it pronounced apex or affects affects. Oh maybe it is. I mean it might be effects or yeah. Affects st this is the problem album with the internet right like that but just being written only or i don't really know i don't i genuinely don't i i'm. I'm not super familiar with them but i've definitely heard some of their work. <hes> oh my god i i believe it was a video game soundtrack unless i'm going going nuts here anyway. I would be interested in checking it out <hes> so he says i play the guitar and the piano and find his solo piano compositions. It's amazing. Some of his electronics. Stuff is almost unlistenable but he's worth dig into and i you know it's funny. I always made the assumption with the name. It was a duo one dude richard david james and i am trying to see if i am correct about discography air i think he did i think he did the soundtrack for the for the minority report video game video game and then the last thing i had jeremy is that he also was okay i i. I'm not really wanting to send you know sign up for a monthly subscription thing but i still wanted to like support you guys so he sent us sent does some money and with that i went out and bought a website dot com <hes> it's not up and ready yet so i don't want to mention you know <hes> it's not ready for people to go to yet so all when it comes time to release it would tell you unveil it will <hes> we'll let you know but jeremy jeremy bader website website so jeremy. Thanks one million yes. That's that's those are my. That's my listener feedback for this episode so that's bringing us fairly well near the end <hes> but i think it's about time that we talk about a non smashing pumpkins record that you would like to recommend tyler and and we'll talk about the when you wanna recommend to <hes> but my pick is is junior by the band reich shop and i did look up a pronunciation god. I'm gonna need you spell for me are what's what's the oh with numata on top like over the new mon on okay r. r._o. Y. k. s. o. r. S. p. p. a. delinquency in the show notes for the rest of you <hes> but is a cool little electronic nick <hes> <hes> album from two dozen nine <hes> obviously it was literally just like i was listening to a shuffle google play provided provided playlist <hes> the might be like electric genre maybe like built off of daft punk but <hes> popped up and it was like i've i've seen the name name but i've never given them any time and i liked the one song that i heard and i can't remember which one it is now but it led me to the album and i've been listen to the album a couple of times through and it's pretty good funnel album definitely check it out. I love the fact that their website describes them as a two headed norwegian monster fan i was we were going to totally have that on our website but it's it's taken god. Damn it all right okay well. We're we're. We're shopping tag lines. If you have any good ideas let us now so when you say it's from two thousand nine i mean and is it really beat driven. Would you call it. Maybe a little more psychedelic. We're we're we're i'm. I'm really bad at describing especially electronic stuff sure i dunno. It's fun does do is make do we have to do. We have to confine it to a box brian or can just enjoy it. Just say go check it out and then people can judge it for themselves. Sure absolutely doesn't make you feel good. Yeah okay well. I don't wanna feel feel good. I like being email on that note. What is your pick. Hopefully it is something that has evil that that was simply a skeletal a reference <hes> <hes> that's a great name for a podcast simply a skeleton reference yeah so i've also got an album the recommend in it's actually going to be good news for people who love bad news by modest mouse which is a great album. Yes <hes> and i feel like the connection here here is that it's another one that was sort of transitional for the band. <hes> granted <hes>. It had a very different effect for them grade. The good good news for people who have good news bad news was pretty much where people learned the name modest mouse <hes> and it was a bit of a bit of stylistic departure from the first couple records <hes> <hes> but it's a really unique and strange artistic achievement from what is primarily a rock band but ah with a very unique talent for making the bad sound good yeah <hes> i would definitely recommend checking handed out tam good record this is it's really it's the only one that you know it's how i learned of the name and every every time i tried to stray to other they're modest mouse stuff. There's some there's a couple of things that i like but like i keep bouncing back to this one yeah the the only other one that have spent a decent as a matter of time with this is the one that came right after the song dashboard on it and had song is amazing <hes> but there's pretty much singles hong on good news that i would skip. It's it. It's desperately weird but it's a lot of frigging fun. Black cadillacs is a great track. It's phenomenal nominal <hes> quick a backstory for listening public air tyler and i used to <hes> just roll around town bumping camping that song it ridiculously high volumes because it was just so much fun de shout along to in the car. I think that brings us to the end of the podcast cast the episode well <hes> before we go at nazi. Are mary way out. <hes> do wanna take a moment to remind other patriotic exists and <hes> if you so you feel kind enough to throw some some money at what we're doing here. If you feel like we're adding value to your commute or whatever other <hes> situation can you listen in <hes>. Please do so <hes>. It really makes a big difference in what we can accomplish. <hes> you know as you heard earlier the financial contributions of our new friend jeremy <hes> <hes> are allowing us to do website so even if you're not comfortable with the monthly subscription if there's something that you would like to do to help us out. Please let us know and if there's anything you feel like you can be getting out of the show that you're not let us now. Our patrons are receiving the heat at this point twenty to forty minute pre show it just kind of preparation of banter. Tonight's episode was like an hour pretty much damn near an hour before we really got underway in and golly. Was it exciting. An action packed there. There were some moments of mutual discovery and there was a mystery none of this joke because this uh-huh the accurate descriptors of what occurred so you know maybe maybe worth your time and it may be worth your coin <hes> and that is a very legitimately intimately powerful way that you can help us out other than that if you've got questions. If you want to talk to us it is tap. Yeah we have to hear from you. <hes> patriotic and other you know support from listeners helps us do is get that website up and running and into something that it would be kind of really cool and a great place to a portal for people to come and discover us in addition to being a good portal for people to discover us. It's also a place as where we can pay more content forward whether it be something more casual light. Get a list of songs to check out stuff like that. We we see that as an opportunity italy for us to engage with everyone a little bit more directly and if we can work on the back end to make that connect with more of her social media there's a handful of things that were really aiming for and if you can help us get there with your hard earned money and you feel like it'd be worth your time but i cannot tell you how much we appreciate it for sure <hes> brian the people they want to talk to us. I don't know why i'm phrasing things like christopher walken but just keep doing it because i love the people they wanna talk to us. How do they do that. They can find this on the electronic mail at discography at gmail.com dot com perhaps they could find this on the facebook at facebook dot com slash discard graph irs or discography hours. <music> are discography serves. I mean good for you could for you. On twitter you can find us at discover pod. Please note that that is a new twitter handle <hes> shiny ninety and new <hes> you can find us if you happen to listen on soundcloud at soundcloud dot com slash the dash discography and when the last things that we have is is i like to feature a independent artists or small artists and get permission to play one of their songs at the end of the show and this is month we have we have kevlar by his eerie and <hes> that will represent for the month of c time <hes> have <hes> <music> on make good choices or don't become famous. It's been is i yeah sir and uh-huh mm-hmm uh-huh.

billy corgan billy Jimmy chamberlin d. flatt billy james billy corks matt leblanc donovan sheila gordon lightfoot corrigan drug overdose chamberlain qatar brian lake lanier matt walker producer iraq
Ep.009 Ron Stone

Chachi Loves Everybody

1:35:32 hr | 3 months ago

Ep.009 Ron Stone

"Had never met him his name was Steve Harty and Steve Walks in my office and he said. I want to buy this radio station. And, I said well, how do those raises for cell? And he says you don't understand these that was the DJ S. ice on the first record ever on this frequency. Omega Guy by this. And I said and I'm sitting there in the back of my mind. I'm thinking dude. You have no idea how much I want to sell you this. Of. President Dave CIANCI DENNIS LOVES RADIO AND ALL OF. His radio. Hey everybody because Chachi loves everybody. WanNa, welcome Ron Stone, the CEO and president of the Adams Radio Group to our podcast, and this is honestly the first time I given the conditions that were in living under covid nineteen and the coronavirus pandemic that I actually don't have the guest in studio with me. Ron Is joining us from outside of Minneapolis. were Adams the headquarters of the Adams. Radio Group is based and welcome Ron. Can you hear US okay? Thank you yeah. I can hear just fine and I wish I was at the studio there because it's. It's about thirty five degrees here today and we're getting sleet outside so. Still Winter Minnesota I can see it. It looks like you're in your living room and I see a beautiful fire burning in the background there. I'm actually this is my basement office, so my my my wife gave basically gave me the whole basement and. It's always been my office down here in study, but I've never really used it for a business office always has been my private office and but now it's my work office working from as we're all most of us are working from home that looks like a beautiful place to work from home short of the short of the cold weather, but you've got the keep you warm A. Little Bit of background on on Ron I mean what an impressive creating a thirty five year radio veteran He's I. Hadn't we're going to go into your career and I'm GonNa. Ask you kind of chronologically some excited talk about that, but has arisen throughout the ranks and now oversees all of atoms They've got stations. In five markets. Total of twenty five stations based in new, Mexico Indiana Florida and Maryland. Rhonda started and this is I want? Want to kind of dive into this. How did you appears in your youth? You weren't really interested in radio because you started off doing accounting, and that's what you studied at East Carolina University correct. Yeah, yeah, no, it was interesting path for me to get into the radio busy. Though so many people when you hear their story, they they say oh. Yeah! When I was eight years old, built my first radio and had my first studio in the basement. That wasn't me I a with. College East Carolina University in North Carolina and originally had planned on. Getting my degree in history, and then going on to law school, and ended up taking the an accounting course as elective, and that it was easy, if it just came easy to me, and so I thought well I'll get an accounting degree, and then I'll go into corporate law. Law was still playing. But I got married while I was in college, and I had two children while I was still in college, so by the time I finished my accounting degree. It will is not longer was law school. Even not even all. It was I, gotTa get a job, and so I started out I had worked my last two years in college with the local public accounting firm which was a big benefit to me while I was in school and then a to work for mcgladdery Poland. A CPA firm. When I graduated and so I was I was doing public accounting. Didn't really fall in love with it they threw me into auditing, which I really disliked and so I ended up getting an opportunity to go to work for Beasley Broadcasting as their controller and I took that job, and that's where I fell in love with radio. Was it easily and important? I wanted to bring up because you mentioned your wife and two kids, and you married your high school sweetheart Kim and are still married today, which are congratulations. Congratulations guys have three kids and five grandchildren. Now we do. wait we. We will celebrate not this year, but next year we will celebrate forty years of of marriage, and we dated three years prior to that, but we've been been for a long time. That's that's amazing. Yeah, so how did when you answered? You were at the accounting firm at mcgladdery and Poland, and then Beasley. Did you just answer an ad? They were looking for a controller. I was really not like into the auditing if honestly if they would've put me and taxation or in some other. Area of public accounting I might have probably technet as a career course though a career path, but. Auditing was just boring and so I was looking for something different and a lady that I knew was doing a job search for Beasley she's cheap with us together, and the actually turned the job down initially. Allow I really I. I was a little uncertain about it and the controller that was there at the time. Called me up after I turned it down. The nieces listen I i. just want to have a conversation off the record. He said if you don't take this position. In six months. You're going to really regret. That decision said I can't tell you why, but you're gonNA. Regret it and and so I thought about it and I thought well. You know worst case is is if I take the job I? Don't like it can always get another job in public accounting share so I took it and sure to his word about three months after I took the job. He resigned allowed, so he was trying to hire someone that can step into his shoes and. That was his point, and so it worked out great for me. I know George was a great teacher. I enjoy working for him. It was a good company. Still is a good company. But the thing that I liked about working for that company was as as a controller of it in the financial side. It was a time where. The world was just become a becoming computerized. Okay, and so everything at the stations was manual when I got there, all the accounting was manual. The traffic at the stations was manual Georgia MD, nine thousand nine hundred separate companies. Each one had to be accounted for individual like. Were you working out of their Florida? Offices Goldsboro north. Carolina North Carolina. It was before they relocated to Florida. But but through that experience I was able to computerize the. The whole company got traffic computerized and all the stations and computerized corporate, and and as I went out to the radio stations, though it was a great opportunity to just shout people whether it was a salesperson or on your person or the GM did mattered me as long as I can just be around. People learn the business. And and George was to me was inspiration because he was in start out in broadcasting, he was as teacher. that. Oh, that's fast he. He was a teacher and so. It was clear to me that you know you could have a career path in the business, even though he weren't necessarily coming up through the on air, side and so. I fell in love with it and. Never looked back. I mean it's just it's in radio ever since so that was a pretty big. You're still very young, and you got with twenty three unbelievable. Now you're the crucial, and you're not only the controller for mark. You're the controller for all a Beasley Broadcasting Yup. It was a it was a big job. At a young age and I tell you I can I'll never forget. This is one of the funniest stories ever for me. I'll never forget. When when the controller did resign, his went because I was originally hired, it was as general account working directly for this controller and when he resigned. I by then I had already fallen in love with the business. Okay, you're not in three months again. And so now my big beer became. You know George is going to hire somebody twice. My Age, the command be this control or be stuck underneath this. Orson and I won't be able to grow. It won't turn out like I had hoped and so I remember going to George and proposing to him to give me a shot at the job. And with because at that time their financial statements, they were six months behind on everything. It was so backed up. Just give me thirty days. The prove to you that I can do the job. And and I said worse cases. It's thirty days. You don't want to pay somebody else. And, so he gave me that opportunity and we got everything current and everybody worked really hard in the office to help me do what needs to be done and We got everything current at thirty days to the day, I walked into his office with a big binder of of current financial statements on every single market, and so at that point, we were able to negotiate me becoming the controller in. and. I think I'll never forget these words. George I went in there to him and I made a proposal to him. For me to take that job at twice, the pay I was making as a journal account. And George. Never forget his face he. He's reading this letter together and he looks up at me and he said. Boy when you go for it, you really go for the Gusto. There's really no other way, and so we both kind of chuckled laugh, but a couple of days later he walked into my office and and he said. You know I'm going to give you what you want. You're doing a great job. Thank you and. We have a great relationship all the way through so that do I mean that's a remarkable story on many levels but one. George, taking that kind of chance on, you shows what a risk taker! He was in the belief he had to have in. The, the second part is the Chutzpah that you had to go at your age with very little broadcast experience and say hey. I can I can do that. Where did you summon that courage? I think part of it for me was just the fact that I was married and I had two kids and I. I knew I had to build a future for my family. And so you know. Make more money was a big. That was a big deal for me and. That was part of it, but but also part of it was you know because they experience? I had had during college work in for CPA firm being exposed to all of the of the accounting side financial side of things. Gave me the confidence that I knew I could do the job. There was never questioned in my mind that I can do the job, and so that part was. That was the easy part. Probably, the hardest part for me, was you know it was a I was a little nervous. You know I had never in my life. Ask somebody you know for a raise. Like. Like what I was asking for. You know and so that part I was a little nervous about but but I also knew that I. was you know if anybody else? Coming in probably would've asked for even more. You know somebody with twenty years. Experience have wanted even more, so it was still a bargain for George. Did he give you everything you ask for? Did negotiate a little bit. Amazing he did his credit he did and. And it was a it was a good relationship for both of us I. Think you know it paved the way for them I. I've always looked at company a thought you know the in some small way I contributed part of what they have accomplished, and it was a great time. I enjoyed it. enjoy working for him and enjoy working with the people that were in that office. It was a great team of people. It's It's an impressive company and you know full disclosure we do. Do a fair amount of business with with them, and Carolina, and a Heidi Raphael, and Justin Chase and you know buzz who just recently left, but have been amazing to us as a company and very supportive and I'm also a big fan of everything they do for the community. I was invited last year. We went to Washington. DC They accepted an award because of all the charitable work they do which I think Beasley Beasley Cares I. believe is the show. Good Company, so, how long were you with Beasley? So I was with Beasley. For about three and a half years. And then one of Georgia's general managers who ran the Philadelphia Station, a had an opportunity to buy some stations, and he had seven seven radio stations in four markets. This was back when you could still only own one. Okay, the market but he bought these stations and. I was good friends with him. I had become good friends with him, and so he started his company and and. Setup. His corporate office down in Charleston South Carolina and offered me an opportunity to come down as his CFO and so I I I saw that as an opportunity to continue growing Shanna and implies you know coming from Goldsboro from Goldsboro working in Goldsboro. Still you know it was small town and Charleston compared to goals for big city, and so that was a little bit exciting to and so I joined I, joined him, and went down, and was part of his company and I stayed with him until. About just a couple of weeks before Hurricane Hugo hit Charleston okay, and I had made the decision to leave their prior to that before the storm hit, but we got out of there, and then I came back and work for about a month to help help them just Kinda. Do all the things they had to do. With applying for grants, loans and things through FEMA because it was, it was devastating. Did it is the warm? Do a lot of damage to the station's Oh. Yeah, it was it was all of them were coastal properties, so we had guy. She enacts head. North Carolina Wilmington North Carolina Myrtle beach in Charleston so every one of those. Were were damaged, and so I helped them out through out in but then I went back to the college town I went to Greenville North Carolina and me, and a couple of buddies, all the small station there, and that was my first opportunity to actual really to just run a state. I'm excited about this part, so the friend that you went to work with that was United Communications It was yeah I was actually Jones Eastern. The official name of the company got it gave you now the opportunity the were CFO and handling oversight of all the finances. Yup, well, and he cj the guy's name that I worked for his name was CJ Jones. He's he's passed away now. but CJ. gave me an opportunity to be more than just a CFO. If o a he he, he'll Albi was the first chance I had to kind of be. Not a full coo, but a little bit of a Coo I got to be involved in operations a little bit with his company analysis. That was the part that was the most appealing to me and Yeah? It was I learned a lot. with with those guys so was George upset when you when you left. Is that something that Or understood. I don't think so. You know I think Georgia's. Georgia's one of those guys. It's always I. think happy for someone gets to do something more with their life. I think he's supportive. You know we. We've remained friends. I, don't see him often. I saw the last time I saw him was etta mutual friends funeral North Carolina a couple years ago. I saw him there and then. I saw him in Atlanta at the in a be when he was given a lifetime achievement award. I saw them so I i. don't get seem very often, but you know when I do. It's always a pleasure. It's always fun to be able to just reconnect with them. And he was definitely a big mentor. Certainly early early in your career. It sounds like he was. He was I. Mean I. I look back to those days with a lot of favor. I mean I I I had a great time working for that company and working for him in learning from him. So after united, you now take even more guts. This I think takes more guts than even asking for twice your salary, you decide to get into ownership and actually by radio station. Yeah, so this was a way. He talk about an interesting situation, so it was small station three thousand. Watt FM Station in Greenville North Carolina small. Town big! It's relatively decent size market coastal Carolina Right Eastern with Ryan's a big geographical market. I think it's market eighty, five or something now bought. There's only two or three signals in the market that cover the whole market. This particular sue signal only covered Greenville This is where I wasn't smart enough to understand the dynamics of all of that by the way God, but a couple of friends that I got together, and we bought the station we paid. We pay nine hundred thousand dollars for this station. That was a sizable a sizable amount of money, especially, yeah. It was a it was a lot of money. Yeah! In, but we thought we thought it all made sense and it kind of makes sense However. This was in nineteen, ninety one and. It'll just like the situation. We face right now today. Nobody knew we were getting ready to go to war in Iraq. And what makes significant significant for this particular radio station is in eastern. North. Carolina you have military bases. And, so we go to war in Iraq after we've been in the station for about six months. And you could literally hear the sucking sound of the economy leaving with it. Because, all these people. And the family a lot of families. Go back to wherever. They're from. They don't stay there. They just go home and because he reminded most bill a lot of military people. They're young people. They're young families, and so dad goes off to fight a war. Mom and the kids go home to wherever they're from and. Our economy with. I mean, you talk about a crash economy. Second this situation for sure, but it went. It was bad and I had never even thought about that. You're cume. Literally evaporated. All in a left left town. That must be was it was it was really really bad and I'll tell you two quick stories though I'll tell you this ended, so it was a disaster in terms of building. It was a disaster. What's Save Chew things that saved me in that whole beal? One was computers. Were you know again? We were still appearing. were computers were just really exploding and there was a guy in town at a local computer store. the sold HP computers and he was sitting on a ton of HP computer. OP MONEY. It was a hundred percent co OP money. Okay, and he had no idea what it was. He didn't even know he had it. He didn't know what to do with it, and so we showed him what to do with it. On And and that that money from that one client is what got us through, and that was probably the happiest. Stay up until that point for me getting that old on The probably the happiest day was a guy. This great story at a Guy Walk into my office one day. Had never met him. His name was Steve, hardy and Steve Walks in my office and he said. I want to buy this radio station. And I said well. How do those radio stations for cell? And he says you don't understand these. That was the DJ ice on the first record ever on this frequency, all my guy by -ation and I said and I'm sitting there in the back of my mind I'm thinking dude. You have no idea how much I want to tell you this. I so we struck up a conversation and a friendship, and of course long story short, he wanted to buy the station, but he didn't have the money to buy the station. Okay, and so but I had another friend in town who was a doctor who had a lot of money and was. A guy liked to invest in. Things are not necessarily run them himself, but invest in other people in other businesses, and introduced the tool and and they hit it off, and and we ended up. He ended up financing it, so that's the good by it and and I ended up getting out of the station whole without losing everything I had. And I mean by the skin of my teeth. It was it was. It could have gone totally different direction. If, it hadn't been for just pure fate of running into somebody that. Wanted it more than I did. That's an incredible story. So what year did you sell it? So we sold in We bought it in eighty nine. We sold it ninety one. Okay, so you had it for two years and I'm sure you are just a tremendous amount from that I. mean you're experienced so far? learning being mentored by George Beasley and going and working at at United, we're now you get some c. o slash cfo experience, and now you've ownership i. mean talking just about such a well rounded background. That's UNBELIEV. What were the call letters of this station W. qr wr Qr. W argue are always loved. Call Letters. I always thought they were great. Call Letters. Yeah and I was I. was I was thirty years old when I sold it. Oh, my Gosh, so I was young as a child. Did your parents instill in you I? Mean they must have instilled some confidence and the idea that it was safe to go and take take risks and chance. Yeah I mean my dad was military. I DAD was A. Career Air Force. My mom was she always worked. I mean they both worked. At it you know my parents didn't have long. They work hard for everything. They have they didn't they didn't they were? They were sure worse and but they taught us my sisters and I. We were taught to work. We were taught to work hard, and you know if you. If there was something that you wanted that you know it was the right way to go about. It was the work hard to go. Get it and not not be afraid to go after things so Yeah, it's. It's it's certainly very impressed and being a an entrepreneur. Myself I. Really Love these hearing these stories and going out on a limb like that and. Seeing you know may failing you because you've got to fail at times to, but also Overcoming those failures in using that that background to turn it into successes, I. Really. I mean when you fail I. Mean That's you learn the most from failure. You learn more from that than you do. from success. I think I agree with that. I think one hundred percent right see you sell wr, q. are, and then. How do you end up at Adams so? So I sell the station, and and you know why I have to do something right, you gotta gotTa find a job. And I saw an ad it this will take you back a little bit. Remember the old, a be broadcasters magazine Sherm out. Yeah, so back then people used to advertise jobs in it and so I, see a job hosted for a CFO for Adams Radio Group which I was not really familiar with and I applied for it. I sent a resume and get a phone call from a fellow. His name was a GMC me. And Jim was based out of Phoenix. He ran cool. FM in Phoenix and Jim was running. He was running. There was two parts of Adams Adam's Radio Corporation, which was the station's that Jim was running, and then there was another part of the group. called Adams Broadcast Group that Matt Mills ran and. And so anyway, Matt Mills had over the entire company, and then they had split between the two of them. So, Jimmy taken over the beer part of the company and was moving in the corporate office from Tampa Florida where Matt was to Phoenix and so I pull out the Phoenix interviewed with Jim. hit it off with him and. The other guy that hit it off with their that was the became a lifelong friend until he passed away in two thousand eight was Andrew Ash would i. don't know if you've ever met. Andrew were not need Jay. Hunter was his own your, but he was a phenomenal on air guy, just a just a great human, being passed away in two thousand and eight from pancreatic cancer, but near that but I I hate it off with those guys and and. Got offered the position and I leave. Greenville leave my family. GO OUT TO PHOENIX. Live in there. You know in an apartment. planted. Sell my house North Carolina and moved the family out then. Gem was one of these guys that. Constantly Kinda changed his mind about stuff and so six months into it. My houses literally sold in their loading a truck. Gem says. WE'RE NOT GONNA WE'RE GONNA. Move The corporate office to San Diego. Tell your wife. Tell you why she's moving to San Diego the funny part of that story is as my wife said when I told her we were moving the Phoenix. You know she. She really didn't want to move that far away from her family, which was North Carolina and she said finally she said all right I'll. I'll move to Phoenix, but that's as far as I'm going. I'm not move to California and I don't even know why. She said that at that time. Wasn't even a conversation is one state over apparently. Here I am on the phone. Call of say and guess what California's I literally couldn't have moved her any further away famish, though I leave from literally from coast to coast, but we we moved to San Diego and we were based out of KC. Bq there was shanty as historical radio station. Just you'd get chills down your spine walking down the halls, just because you just knew all the all the big radio people that had been those studios before. Yeah! Hallowed ground. So, when were you in San? Diego because art, so I was in San Diego Ninety one through ninety three ago. Okay, so we just missed. Each other I moved to San Diego and started working at Kfi. Am Be Ninety six. So. Yeah so sorry to interrupt, but yeah. Yeah. No career pads almost intersected. So you're inside? I love San Diego I loved were I loved I loved Phoenix. Phoenix Lou great city. In their cool cool great radio station. Case to be is great radio station. At that time was a was a Oldie station a lot of fun. Yeah, so Adam's. Adam's Adam's own. That Yup Adams at that time. That bat version of atoms was San Diego Phoenix. San Antonio. Charlotte North Carolina Grand Rapids Michigan L. E. V. A.. SEATTLE DENVER. Saint Louis that Adams had all they were all big markets and. I got the what happened for me. Though is having run station that station, in Greenville I just had the bug of I want I really wanted to be running radio stations I really didn't want to be a CFO. So I constantly. Hounded Gem Miller about I won't be doing more in operations, and so we were having some problems in Charlotte. And so he said you know what. Why don't you go out every other week? Go spend every other week in Charlotte and oversee that that station until we get somebody hired, and by the way you find that person. And so I. Did that by the way been? Make my wife real happy. I brought her from. North Carolina to San Diego and now every other week. I'm back in north, Carolina. But we we, we got through that whole process and hire a a young Gal. Her name was Jodi Fray Tag, great, great GM of out of Greenville South Carolina Takeover, Charlotte and. I still wanted to I really wanted run a radio station. You know it's not just about being involved in operations. It's about the in on the street. It's about meeting with clients about coming up with ideas. It's about just being vm that that person that looks at a market and says. I want to put my arms around this market. And I want to be the mayor of this town. I WANNA be the guy that no matter what's going on this town I'm the first person that they think about the call when they need help promoting it or they need. Extra people involved at anything need to have. They need a radio station to support it. I want to be that guy that they call and you can't get that. Let you're there all the time, and that's a way to put it I've never heard it quite that put that way, but you're right. The mayor of this town being there to help help the community and the businesses. It's a really good way to put I mean that's truly what it is. I mean I think the best GM's that I've ever known and I feel like this. This is this describes who I was as a GM is GM's. That are truly involved in their community. Right? You're you're not only, are you? In a rotary, club, you're you're on the board of that Rotary Club and and not only are you in that claw, but you're. You've got relationships with the People Alliance Club into Choas Club in Europe going over in your guest speaker there on your talking about what's happening, and when you hear about some need in the community, you're the one out spreading the word about it, not just on the air, but personally you're in all. So it just it's. It's very satisfying and. So I stayed on Jim. Heavy about I wanted to I really wanted to run radio stations, and so finally he said to me. slight third quarter of ninety three, he said. Go run Saint Louis. Louis was the worst stations we hadn't company. They were they were. They had a beautiful music station forever. Okay, which it had that had died, nobody was listening to it anymore. The cash flow will met station had had fallen to on a twelve month basis had fallen down to about two hundred fifty thousand a year. Oh my Gosh! They an continue in the fall it was it was a bad situation. He's to go Saint Louis. You think you're so good at it. You WANNA run around Saint Louis and so I moved to Saint Louis and took over the stations and. The first thing I did. 'em This individual. We're still very good friends. Today we still work together. Today consults with the in this company Jim Richards Shaw with Alli consulting of Allie Richards. I met Jim Right out of the gate and GM had been the PD at y ninety eight, the biggest competitor Casey the station go. Risque Z. K. okay. Why the eight had been the biggest AC station in town. And Casey K, many years prior had been number one station, but again beautiful music wasn't the thing anymore. So. I meet Jim and I said so. Working with him anymore. You're kind of a free agent. You, work with me on this station. You want to help build something here some pretty special. And and and he said Yeah and we started working together, and so we launched Casey. K., as a softy station rebranded it new logo, the whole works, and believe it or not into into books we went from the worst rated FM in the market to the top rated FM in the market and the only station that we weren't beating was a Kahlo. Not Not Kale you the the big, am there I can't. I can't think of their call letters right now. Okay you was the only station. Yeah sure hayme! Ex was the big am huge news. Talk Station. That's the only station that we that we didn't be here. The number one station in town we were the number one. Number one with females Oh my God I mean nobody could toss. It was the one time in my life that I had a situation where. You could. If you wanted to reach females, you could not by around me period and what a feeling! Oh Great! What did your boss say, was he? Was He proud you? It was pretty happy. Everybody's happy are twelve months. Trailing cashflow grew from two hundred and fifty thousand when I got there to. When I left there, my trailing kept and I was an Aleph area. I left there in. July of. No I left there in September of ninety four. My trailing twelve months cash flow was a million. Wanted US wanted. Jeez. Yeah that's more. It's almost like twelve thirteen time it was crazy. Yeah, that's incredibly easy. We couldn't get away from the money here here. Here's how good it was. I told my sales staff that the the first month that we did seven hundred thousand dollars I will take them on a trip in the Caribbean somewhere for wheat. We'd go on a nice party. It'd be a great time. And they hit that number in June of ninety four and I scheduled a trip for the first week of July. We went into July. Already at eight, hundred, thousand unbelievable I mean it was. We couldn't get out of the way the money. It was crazy. It was a fun time and I felt love with Saint. Louis loves love. That market was great. But so now this is a period of time when you're either. They're they're ramping up with consolidation, so you're you're either going to be a buyer or seller. Right either expanding or your or you get out at some pretty radical numbers. Shirley's regulation was ninety six right. But it was all that was coming I. Say so. Steve made a decision that he was. He was not going to expand. Radio Steve Steve had outdoor company Adams outdoor he had. the good. Sam Club which now has rolled up into camping world. Yes, Charlotte, that with the stickers on the back of RV's Sam still is still part of just under camping world now but okay. Anyway he his focus went to other things, so he's got out of business and and that, and that's why I laughed Saint Louis and went back to north, Carolina meanwhile way all the way back home practicing your wife's happy at this point. Yes, he was pretty happy. I get back there. So. We go back to Raleigh and so we were like forty five minutes from our hometown. which was you know not bad? and I took over a two stations. They are for prism radio and one was a move in from Burlington. Had kinda crappy coverage, and then the other one was a seat, was a CHR that was licensed to Durham, a G., one of five and so. That was another. It was just you know I don't know right time. Right place kind of thing, but we took. We took that the one that was moved from Burlington and. Launched it as a classic rock station up against W ardy you, which had been a monster, just unbelievable radio station in that market for twenty five years totally dominated the market. We launched a classic Rock Station One I. I still to this day it was the best sounding classic rock station. I ever heard And we put John Boy and billy on along. That indicate show going up against the local reynolds, and so who had owned the market forever that had been early on and John Boy and Billy's syndicate. Pretty early on yeah yeah, we beat them. We, not only we not only beat them, but they ultimately they left the format. They got out of the rock stations. They are the rock business. Completely rentals in civil war broke up an already. You left the format. And and we were again, it was just it was like a machine it was we were printing money there. It was crazy so both. Casey K and then now again when you're at a prism, what would you say I mean different stations because one was in a see, it sound like the other was that was rock station. But what did you do? What was the the the secret? Do you think to those turnarounds? The well the secret was it was the people you know we. It was the people we've we. We built a really good staff. In both cases, it was it was assembling the right people and having the right kind of chemistry in the building. Everybody wanted to win everybody was willing to go the distance to win and I i. You know I think for my part. I created an environment that. Constantly rewarded people for winning. And so when I look back on it now and I think about things that we used to do. Aside from like the big trip that took him on. We ended up doing a big trip like that Raleigh to which was fun, but In addition to that, you know if we hit if we hit our goals during the week, if we hit our goals by Thursday. I would come in on Friday morning and tell everybody I. Don't no matter what you got going on. Cancel it I've got a limo bus out front. We're all getting on the LIMO bus where one over to afternoon to the to the riverboat casino and we're going to go play all day, and by the way you know here. Here's a little bonus for you to play with. Thanks for doing such a great job and we did a lot of that kind of stuff I think on. That kind of stuff is so important. mentor Mine Michael Martin. Told me and I remember when I was the program director here at K big when we had a good book and I was very concerned, instead of celebrating it I was worried about well. Yeah, we're. We're doing great now, but I was already worried about the next book and he's like what you gotTa. You gotTA celebrate. You got to celebrate those moments and. This business as a whole. It's not like when you go, and you win the Super, Bowl, you celebrate, and it becomes this big celebration. We tend to just move on and start thinking about the very next thing, and it's not that after you win the Super Bowl. You don't you know I? It's not that the The redskins aren't thinking about the next arbs. ARBS! The chiefs aren't thinking about the next season, but they still start when they celebrate and one hundred percent. Agree with you. You've got and we don't do enough of that as a whole, I think in in this part of the problem, our industry right now I think is that we don't. We don't do those kinds of things anymore. In our industry we don't. We don't we don't do a lot of. Client trips you remember back in the day when? If a client spend a certain amount of money with you at first quarter, or maybe it was a year package. You'd take twenty or thirty clients on unbelievable trip. They have a great time and they'd come back and. They'd sign up for the next year. I mean. Yeah, we, we we we we got. We have gotten so conscious a about cost that we view everything from that lens of versus looking at a lot of that stuff as an investment to get people to really. Fall in love with our radio stations that to me is the the saddest part of our business right now. I think is that there was a? And I don't think we're I. think it could this could be. We could get this back I. Don't think Social Media and all other things that are out there I. don't believe we're to a point where we've lost all this. But but we've got a aggressively grow this back. If we want to hold onto it where people really do fall in love with a radio station, right? Why why do they fall in love with it a fall in love with it? Because one, it's fun. They loved the music but most importantly they fall in love with because there's somebody on the air. That they connect to. And that person they identify with them they they love them. They WANNA get up every day and listen to him them, or maybe it's the afternoon drive show and they're listening to that. Whatever whatever it might be And we're stripping our industry down so quickly and getting rid of that and turn it into their so much syndication now on so many radio stations that those individual people that have the ability to really shine and create that kind of a relationship in their community, those opportunities are getting fewer and fewer and fewer, and my biggest fear is coming out of this crisis is at the. It's going to be even. Even more so that way. There's going to be a lot of companies that are going to say yeah. I got set up an operation center somewhere I'm GonNa have all my programming come from ear and baby. I'll have a local news guy in net market having on air, people there 'cause. I gotta say the money and I. Just think all all you're doing that Hannah of thinking. Is You're buying yourself time? But ultimately you're killing your industry. I think some amazing advice and I. Agree with you. I don't think it's too late and where we shine best moments that we're going through right now, and it's the people that are on air. It's the people in your sales department production apartment. The whole entire building has to be firing on all cylinders, but you can really feel successful radio station. I think about winning teams, sports, teams, and I like to use those analogies quite a bit, but you think of the dodgers in the in the fifties and Colfax and Jackie and Pee Wee reese and campy all these players they meant something to the fans, and yes, they won because they were a great team, but those characters they transcended even how they played baseball on the on the field and I think that's the same thing that we need to bring back. Winning teams have great players for sure, but they also have a lot of character. They have a lot of heart and they don't always win. And that's I think in in in credit. I remember when I when I went to Phoenix and the guy mentioned to you earlier, Andrew would be Bj. Hunter was his on air name, but I can remember going to. He would do a remote at a car dealer. And it'd be a lunchtime remote Mila Week. And I'd go out there while he was there doing the remote. It'd be two hundred people. They're. Amazing. I mean think about that. I mean hundred people Middle Day shows up at a car dealership. To see him. They probably weren't there to buy a car. Sure, maybe somebody snag one or two of on the carpet. They weren't there to buy hard. They were there to see him live because they had. The relationship over the air was so strong that they wanted. They wanted to be there be when he was doing. Got It just sometimes I think back to some of that it just it's sad. It saddens me to think that we might be losing that aspect of it. Back in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty four. Excuse me. In one thousand, nine hundred five I went to Wichita Kansas to help a station there was that was called long. Pride Broadcasting Charley Pride. Who was one of the owners and? They were putting in a traffic system. It was a traffic system that I knew pretty and so. I went there to train them on how to use this traffic system so there about three days my first morning. I get up and I'm I. Wake up to dusty. Springville on Oldies am radio station that came on my radio in the hotel room, and I'm listening to this great song and all of a sudden. This voice comes on. This announcer was rick. Gannon's passed away as well. All. My friends are leaving the song, but the rich Gannon comes on, and it's just this voice from heaven. And I was just like Oh my God. I could not wait to get to the station. And hopefully be able to get before he leaves so I can meet him. And, and it was just the thrill for me yeah. I think that's how people see on air talent. That's what we have that kind of connection. But our industry if we're not careful that's that's the one thing that separates us from all of the other audio out there and if we're not careful, we're GONNA lose it for no other reason other than where we're to conscious about the cost and not focused on the fact that it's an investment in in the product and in our future. I think it's a very well put and in great advice. So back in I I want to finish up on the rest of your career. And then we're gonNA get into everything. That's happening right now with the pandemic So you're at prism, you turn around. The station, your number one in the market doing phenomenal, and then you end up back at Adams. A new iterations of atoms is how that happened so between so between prison and Adams I'll skip through some of that because it's a there's two or three steps but I I ended up leaving their out. I had a great time in Raleigh was a great. The two stations Iran were doing amazing I mean. Some clear your general manager at this point, right? You're a mansion with got it okay, and and and it was a it was. The stations were doing phenomenal, but the company had a culture that was different than anything. I'd ever experienced and. Without going into a lot of details, it'll, it'll spell negative. It was it was a culture that I disliked very much, and so I ended up leaving there in spite of the success. We were habit and ended up coming to Minneapolis to run again another turnaround. Jumper man, you just get into these situations where you're turning stations around. The Minneapolis one was a little different because. The company that owned it. Park Communications had owned it forever thirty years. They had never made a profit ever on the station ever home like and so Roy part was one of these guys he he liked to own everything, and so he made a decision many years prior to that to move the tower over to Somerset Wisconsin, so he could own the tower, but he lost. He lost signal in Minneapolis by doing that. He didn't have single parody with all the other FM's, so it was the secondary station. He had passed away, and so a new group of people had all apart communications. And so when I came here, the job was we want you to find a way to get the signal back into Minneapolis so that we have signal parody of the stations only worth about six million dollars right now that point and we know that if we can get single, Perry will have a station or somewhere north of twenty million. So so that's your task, right? It was more about that than it was format or anything God. We're doing classic country and I'm talking about classic. Country like viscount William Senior coach. And so. I had to work a lot of magic to get all that done, but I was able to work out with a guy that has ep that was blocking us to move back gotta deal worked out with him to saul part of the problem. The Tower Farm here which was a partnership by all the other stations that had signalled charity right. They probably didn't want us on tower. They. Why would you want another state? I had way to deal with them and so I sat down with all of those general managers at one time and I said look, here's the deal. We all know what's happening consolidations common. It's GonNa come here to right. We're a STANDALONE FM station. One of you are going to end up owning us, and if one of you own us and we're not already on that tower. The rest of you are never going to let the one that does own. Get on there so right now. You don't know who's going to own it right? It could be CBS's Hubbard. It could be. It could have been ABC at a time, anyone of you could end up being you don't know who it's going to be so the best thing you can all do as agreed. Let me buy into the partnership and let me get on it now so that we're already upgraded so that when one of you do get it, it's has some value. And so they agreed on. This is this one. Sit Down with all the gems one set bill. Straight out of the Godfather, I could kind of see this. Are you like in the backroom of Italian restaurant? Restaurant. But it was awesome, but but it was the truth. It was the truth. I mean it's cool. That is the way it was, and so so anyway, so we got all that done, and we moved over and sure sure to form we. We ended up selling the station or we sold it for twenty six million dollars Nationwide and a nationwide traded it with CBS, so it ended up being the CBS group years is who ultimately ended up getting seen more than quadrupled by that the value the radio station. Yeah, THAT'S A. That's a shrewd move, so your accounting background while you obviously prefer the operational side of the business. Your accounting background in that finance side is certainly paid off in. Spades. Yeah, no, it's helpful. The sad part of that deal was that is is that the company gave me ninety days? They said if you want to buy the station and we'll give you ninety days to raise. The money will sell it to you for twenty million. Okay, so I! Go out and I meet with some people the market that had the money. And I could not make them understand what was happening in the Industry And they couldn't get their head around it. They were more. You know. There's not twenty million dollars worth of baskin and supplies and I. It's not even about the revenue writes about I in it for twenty million a year from now we'll double our money. And they just didn't get. Wide ended up buying it for twenty, six million and within a year. Get a trade with CBS that trade when they did that trade, it was valued at fifty million. All my God, so when it's like ninety, seven, Ninety, eight, ninety, six, ninety, six, okay. I when that happened I took the the old inside radio facts I took that facts and I sent it over to the to the two different people bankers. This is what I was trying to explain to you. And one of them came back to me and said I. Get it now. You have another deal like that I'm in. No, you still don't get it because that's the only one of those deals. That's everyone exist in the ever again. It's never going to happen again man. I I went so from from there when that was sold I got into saw auxiliary radio stuff for while traffic business, shadow broadcasting, and I was part of traffic dot com when that started and I stayed with that up until the point they would public, and then once they went public. I left that company, and you have to wade out a certain period of time before you can sail. We're okay, so you own part of that company. Yup Okay so? Then at some point had a nice liquidity event. It sounds like even though you miss that I mean there's been some. It's been some some fun along the way. Yeah, and what was a small piece? It wasn't huge so but I got out of that and gotten in went back the radio, and so, but in two thousand thirteen, so we'll talk about Adams again, so yeah twenty thirteen. I reached out the Steve who had not talked to in Britain. So you left those show for about twelve years, you were doing traffic. Is that correct or from ninety six until two thousand four? Okay, so you're in the side of the business, and that's a really interesting side. Let's if you don't mind because that is a very fascinating side of misdemeanor. Let's talk about it, yeah! I loved it. You know what here's what I loved about it out, so I took over I met this fellow. His name's Alma Gowan. Al Was the president of shadow broadcasting. Nicest guy in the world and I ran into I actually ran into two or three times, and ended up striking up conversations with them, and the last time I run into him I was in Philadelphia, which is where his office was. And he said why don't you come over CR operation? He said you know. I really need somebody to run Detroit for me to open it. WE'RE GONNA launch. Detroit I need somebody that knows what they're doing to do that and he said I'm telling you. We're not that different from radio. Why don't you come in the studio so I go over? Walk in, and it's like shoot I mean. It literally was just like being radio station you all these people running around these reports for all these stations and The founded energy was there and so anyway I ended up going to work with him, and he became a very good friend, and and and we launched Detroit and so i. go into Detroit and. This is the part about the business that I loved? Is that radio stations were giving away? They would give away ten second. Sponsorships right they go tell somebody something, and then they'd bonus by. Nobody saw any value in ten seconds sponsorships, and well. That's what we were getting for our news product and our traffic product and sports. We would create whatever you want short for Iraq products in exchange for the second sponsorship, and then we were going out and selling them to clients. We in Detroit we ended up generating about fourteen million dollars a year in Detroit. On inventory that radio stations were literally giving away mazing. They saw value in now. That's not so much to in today's world, people see more value in it now, right? They learned their lesson, but. It was I blew my mind and providing a phenomenal service to the radio stations and the great a lot of time. It's really high testing at McGowan. Al Left Shadow, and was one of the founders of traffic dot com. And, so he invited me to come along with him on that ride, and and hired me to be the VP of affiliate sales for the country, and and run ad sales for the Midwest and so I. Go to work for Al there and. It was again. It was a phenomenal time. I mean we. I signed the largest deal personally that that that they had one hundred million dollars of inventory Hawley that we that we ended up with a three three year long deal. With MS We agree or at the time the company went public. We were on an annual basis. We were selling about fifty million dollars a year in honor ships. That's amazing, so it was. It was a great business in and how you know I I look at some of the people. I worked for over the years. That I really. Respect a lot and they taught me a lot. In the George, was one of those people, Alma Gallon was one of those people that I learned a great deal from and and so I think when you put your life experiences altogether. You know it's nice to be able to point out those people that had so much impact on. And the your career is the more we talk. The more rounded you know to have. This traffic slash somewhat network experience, of of shadow, a GM CFO auditing and accounting sales. I mean. You've really done so many different things throughout the industry. It's a very long, so look even today with our company today about three four years ago. I, said to all of our programming and our managers because most FM. They don't do a lot of news if they do any at all. They don't do much and I said about three or four years ago. I had a big meeting with them all and I said guys we're. We're going to start doing news on our FM's I. Know You don't agree with me I know you think it's you know the listeners aren't gonNA. Listen to it. We shouldn't stop music for news. I get it. Before I. Understand your position on it, but we're a do it and I I don't think it's going hurt us i. think it's going to help us and we're GONNA. We're we're at least try it, and so we did we. We have for the last several years. We had a news product on all of our stations. We brand. It in Maryland. It's the Delmarva News Network. Network in Tallahassee Tallahassee. News Network and I have gone. I, think that is so incredibly smart in much of Europe. The government requires that music stations breakdown for news, and I think it actually makes for a more informed public I. think that it gets a younger generation especially with the younger formatted stations into news, and they become more knowledgeable How's that going? Ratings wise is. Great. It never heard US anywhere. The the stations that you would expect to have you know the best ratings in in the market you know like for instance in Maryland v H. The Beach Alternative Rock Station was one of the stations that I got the most pushback on. The people that listen to that you know Dave for sure. Don't want to hear news. It's like not I don't I. snagged station continued number one never heard I ratings at all, and but I bring it into today's world in and while everybody else was scrambling to try to figure out how they're going to cover news. Now that we have a crisis on our hands right how they can local league. Cover that. It we just kept doing what we were doing. Think it's a brilliant move in something that's so important to people. Especially now is having trust with your brands. People have to trust and especially in a world where you have no idea especially when you're looking at social media and worthy stories are coming from. Are they legitimate news stories? Are they not and to have a trustworthy station and brand? Give you news. I think has a tremendous amount of. A positive the and we we've seen the. We've seen the reports from Nielsen that. The. They just saw one last week that it showed. How radio is still the most trusted source for news. People don't trust nobody. I don't know anybody that truly trust television news anymore. Because it's all become basically somebody's opinion, they just get on there and a blue, a Ad Nauseam, and and is just It's to a point now. Where unless you just want to hear somebody's opinion about it, you just you, don't you tune it out? You don't WanNa. Hear it and where on Radio News. It's still presented in a very factual way. Here's what's happening. You can decide whether you like it or don't like it or. Don't agree with it, but but nobody will radio that I know of this. Trying to in normal news I'm not talking about rush, limbaugh show. I'm sure about normal news straight up news stuff or telling you what's going on, and so the trust factor is through the roof right now on radio news and I think that's the reason. Why is because where we've become the? Walter cronkite equal trust, and it's a very smart very smart move. So how how do you get to you? Get back to Adams after doing shadow. Yeah so I reached out with Steve in two thousand thirteen and just said look I I would love to have a conversation with you about starting to Radio Group. If you're interested in, get back into business. I think there's an opportunity different than what you did. Before this one would be more focused on smaller markets markets fifty through two hundred. Markets that are small enough that GM can get their arms around like I was talking about earlier where he really could own that market and I think there's an opportunity in the multiples are right. You know multiples since we've been in the business have been. They've averaged around six six and a half times Hopefully they'll still be worth that as we come out of this crisis. WHO KNOWS BUT But that was I thought. I thought that was a bargain price. You know for for stations, and so we base so I so I I since the letter and said you know. What do you think and I get a call back like a week later and picked up the phone and we picked up right where we left off twenty years earlier and Gosh. Can you come out to my office tomorrow and I said I get a flight I can. Can, he's still sandy office the next day, and and and and we put a deal together and a month later we launched the company and six months later we bought las cruces, and then you know forward, oct twenty seventeen. We bought the fifth market which was Tallahassee and but we set. We know we tried to put some specific parameters. Place on how we were trying to do this and you know one of the things that we were really. Trying to stick to was, we wanted to buy stations that had limited competition in the market, so not not one that's over radio. That they own their real estate. They own their space of the towers. You know, so you don't. You're not loaded up with a lot of rant. All of those all of those factors, we try to find markets that all those factors existed in and we were. We were fortunate to be able to to find that and And it's you know we got I. Think we've got some pretty good deals with some of the stuff we didn't. We look we looked at. You can't even imagine how many different markets we've looked at over over time. the things that we. We thought were overpriced and we walked away from. In some cases we saw other people pay a price that we've always too heavy, and and in I think what we saw. Front has turned out to be the case and. and there's been some things that we we looked at that quite frankly you know. I'm looking back on it now thinking I'm glad it didn't happen. A May. We were involved a couple of years ago. We have an exclusive opportunity on a deal that would have it with catapulted with us from where we are now which I don't even know where that is on the on the list hierarchy, but it would have made us in terms of numbers stations. It would have made us fifteen largest company, only no big deal, which is still still small, fifteen, still small, but It was a it was a deal brought in eight markets with. Very very legendary stations, a great was a great. We spent six months working on this deal. For, anybody else had a chance. Even look at it and we made an offer on it. We were trying to get it done. We ran into an impasse with the seller. Quite, frankly, I think the seller. A year later, I think the seller wishes they made a different decision at the time because they ended up making less money on the stations in year. Get on a law, but but it fell apart at the last minute, and at the time I was just like off. I just couldn't believe it, because at my heart was set on it. You know I I just I. This whole company had all the parameters we had set out. You know it was perfect for us, didn't happen and. Now though I'm looking at it and I'm thinking. Boy I think I'm pretty happy. That didn't happen now, because faced with what we're faced with today. If we had that company that had happened. We would be a totally different company and some of the things that are going to be available to us through the legislation that was passed that we're going to be able to tap into We would not have been able to tell because we would have been to arch many employees, and that's causing you. You always have to walk away from everything. with the state of mind that things happen for reason and just walk away knowing that and you might not understand it at that moment, but somewhere down the line you'll look back on it and you'll. You'll be thankful that it happened the way it did. Would you say before we get into down pandemic, which is why I want to go next, but I have one more question before then are you having the time of your life in regards to being able to run this group? It kind of sounds to me that this is like the perfect crescendo of all things that you've studied throughout your career to become now these CEO and president of a large group. I mean I I love what I'm doing. I've got a great team I've got I've got a wonderful controller that you know has my back on on the financial side I've got great GM's. I am really happy with with where I'm at and and what I'm doing I love being back in business with Steve Adams he's. He's one of the greatest people that I've ever known. He's one of the most I. Don't know how you describe him. Really he just a very gentle soul, the Emanuel on the street. You just think he was the guy down the street. Maybe that own the coffee shop. He's a super nice guy and He loves to see people succeed he just he loves the idea of people getting in business and being successful. He just loves watching IT AND SO yeah I'm I'm I'm I'm very happy I mean A. That said I'm obviously a little bit concern right now with what's going on in the world, I mean this is, this is going to change all of our lives, and it's going to change. Most companies the way they were operating before. will not be the way they operate in the future and I mean all industries, not just radio. But I think radio for sure will be going to be a different game going forward for most radio companies you. About, you're the first company. At least I read to really get ahead of the curve, and announced the salary reductions and I on honestly honestly just a day or two. After you announced it, we did the same thing here almost identical. We've asked our team. Just full transparency to take fifteen percent salary reductions, and then myself and my partners of taken thirty percent salary reductions to help with what we're seeing right now. At least over the next ten weeks being substantially. Of our revenue. So we you know what the? There's nothing more important in my opinion, then your people. And the last thing anybody should want is to come out of this crisis. And not have their staff? In still in place and. Ready to hit the ground running to not only help you rebuild your company, but be out there doing what we do. In helping our communities rebuild from this right, you WANNA. Have Your staff ready to go to to? Make a decision and this is just my opinion. Everybody has to do their own fitting, but to make a decision to furlough people. I just I just I in disagreement with that decision I. Think it's a wrong decision long-term. So for us, it was Abou. How can we you know we obviously knew what we're. We've taken cancellations like everybody else. You know it's been brutal. We've written very little business in the last three weeks and we've taken a lot of cancellations. Our business looks very different today than it did. Three weeks ago are projections. So we had to quickly look at it and say what can we do to try to minimize the impact of this so that we can weather this storm by reducing compensation and I had a conference call with our entire company I've never done that before. It's the first time I'd ever had a call with every employee line at one time and I laid it out for them, and I said you know I. Really I need everybody onboard with this. I hope everybody will understand what I'm trying to do and. We'll share in this in this burden together so that no one person has to share in it alone. be out their own. Their own and everybody was supportive. I got a bunch of emails from people after that. Call saying. Thank you so much for doing this doing. The Second part of that was putting our 401k on. Hold our match. Individuals can still contribute, but we stopped the match. And we you know we have set match and mean we did. Fifty percent of six percent of your pay was a decent mad as a good match we put that on hold, but all of these things are done temporarily until we get through this. I hope that will be able to put our 401k back in place by January and and and we're keeping up with the amount of money that that people are actually the way I'm referring to is the money that people are contributing. To help us weather this storm, so that that ten percent cut everybody has taken. We're keeping. Up with it and. I'm hopeful that at some point in the future. I don't know when that will be. And I don't know if it'll be. Let me put it that way, but I'm hopeful that. At some point we'll be able to bonus our employees back that money and that one day they'll get back. It won't be forever loss. Ask My goal. If we can return our company to where it was and get our profits moving back in the direction that they were I think in time. We reward our employees for being part of the solution. And whether in the storm with US I have so much admiration for what you're doing and we. We copied pretty closely to what you're doing and I- I largely agree. This is something that we're trying to avoid furloughs here. And I had very similar conversation with with the team and I received in I was actually shocked by it because it was such a tough conversation to have to have and to tell them what we were doing, but I also received quite a few notes that really just put a smile on my face from the girls that were grateful. force doing that way, and unfortunately it's so difficult to project. What's going to happen going forward but if you look? Look we just came off of our best January in our best February we had a really strong, two, thousand and nineteen, and or some this as we were talking before we got on today together. This is just this black swan event that no one could have predicted within nine. It's only been a little over ninety days since the viruses even been around at least in hearings, and it is brought the entire world practically to it's knees. It is in unbelievable event, and unlike anything I've ever had to go through. And I think what you're doing. I honestly just gives me goosebumps because I find it such great leadership. What is right now kind of keeping you up at night and and let me a little bit more specifics sounds like. Again you're doing everything you possibly can to protect your employees and and continue this culture. That I know is incredibly important to you. what what worries you right now. And what do you see as this kind of develops? When do you think that things will start to come back? Well, I, think you know the thing that keeps me up honestly more than anything is it is my mind keeps spinning in in terms of you know. Are we doing everything that we could be doing you know for example? This morning I sent out several emails to all our markets about things that just ideas that that I thought we should at least consider. One of them was get on the phone with every single client, and this was for the GM's as said I. I want you guys to call every single client and let you let them know that when they're ready to come back on that. We know that they're gonNA. have cash flow problems just like we are just like everybody else's and because of that that we are going to relax our collection policy. We always had a very tight collection policy. I think the best any company I've ever been with has been here on how we've collected money. But ice told GM's let your clients know that we know that they're going to need to kick. Start Their company, and if that means that, we've got to give him ninety days of credit on on receivables to help them. Get their message out there early. Let's do that. It's it's worth doing that, is we? Don't Save Them. We can't save ourself. So. It's things like that. You know I suggested that each of our market. We've got some unique assets in each of our market in terms of community assets. In like for example in Tallahassee Florida the Capitol building, and if you've ever been to Tallahassee or not the Capitol Billy, there's only one building in Tallahassee. That's a really really tall building is the tallest building in town back. There's a law that nobody can build taller than that bill. Okay, and but it's a beautiful building and I sent Jason a note and I said. It be great. If you could work with the city government and maybe we could turn that building light it up at night, red, white and blue as a sign of hope that we are going to get through this together, and you could live stream it so that anybody that can't drive by and see it could at least see it online. You know little things like that mind kind of never stops spinning about stuff like that, and so that that definitely can I wake up in the middle night with an idea. And I have to send it to somebody so. The part that worries me is. I don't know how nobody knows. How long this is going to go I think if we come out of this by the end of April and we can get back to business the country. Get back to business. While it's still going to be painful for us all for while we're going to get through it. Things will start coming back. If this stretches out to the end of May. While, that's only you could say well. That's only another four weeks. I think if it goes to the intimate I I. Really think all bets are off as to who surprise it doesn't. Because? There's going to be a lot of small businesses that simply will never reopen if it if it goes out that four. And I. I know that every life is precious I get it. But at some point in the future, we are going to look back on this and we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA measure all of this with hindsight. and. It may be that we look at this and say what we did. You know cost thousands of jobs millions of jobs it costs thousands of businesses companies economically it was it was the worst situation we've ever faced, but it was worth it because you know we. We save two million lies. There's also the possibility that will look back on it and say you know maybe we. Maybe we didn't bigly. Overstep this a little bit. Maybe there was maybe there was a little more hype to this than what needed to be because. I don't think anybody really knows where this is going to end the at and we the these extreme measures that we've taken this disruption of three hundred fifty million people there I mean just in our country. We've disrupted the lives of three hundred fifty million people. In an effort to save. You know what you could make. The argument isn't. Going to be as bad as what we're sometimes be led to believe and I I'm saying that as a as a layman I don't know what it's going to be. Nobody knows read an interesting article to your point. in the BBC was an op. Ed but that the again I'm on the layman as well. My father's a physician, so I talked to him. Him nightly, and and get his insight on it, but this op Ed piece in the BBC, and please take it for grain of salt on, but is saying that a lot of the people that are dying have underlying conditions and are being reported as dying of Corona virus, but that's probably not actually what they died of and had a. you know a cancer. Kidney issues whatever it may be and there's no doubt we still know very little about this, but this argument also goes on that. We may be doing causing more deaths by damaging the economy as much as we possibly are, because there's a lot of people that are supposed to go in for regular surgeries right now. That cannot pushed back. There are also a lot of people that may not even actually have food on their table, and so you're gonNA. Have Mount Nutrition issues, and you're gonNA have, and it's a very interesting piece and I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it is certainly a different argument and nobody. It does provide for interesting. And I I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday. Who who has lost a family member to grown virus and he said. Ronnie she's she was ninety two. Right when we were GONNA, lose her if she got the flu if she'd got pneumonia if she she'd fall, and if she had just taken a fall, she probably would probably kill her, and he said. We, we. We need to keep some of this in perspective. I look I I want to step back and go. There's probably a whole lot of stuff about all of this that we don't even know that they don't even tell us and so. Who knows, but it does it when I think about the lives of my employees Avenue multiply that times you know all the people in the country it is it's it is enough to keep you awake at night. Because I think there is a balance here somewhere as to whether or not, we are causing more harm. then. We are good by basically shutting everything down I. Just I, just I. Don't if I had the answer as to where that is, I don't know years the other thing I would tell you to. And I thought about this a lot I'm a I'm a fan of history. I'm a I'm a war history buff and. When when we needed to end that war, in Japan, Roosevelt put together about thirty scientists of the best of the best, and he said create an atom bomb. You gotTA eighteen months to do it right. Eighteen months to create an atom bomb something that had never been done ever. Ever, they had no clue where to even start. Yet they did it. And in this situation. It's like well. This is a virus. We we've dealt with viruses before this just the different virus. It would seem why you put together your best of your best and that maybe they could come up with something that would could be very quickly produced, and we can all be that. I? Just don't some of it. I just don't understand enough of you know to understand why this has to drag out when I hear them. Say WE'RE GONNA have a vaccine in eighteen months so gosh eighteen months. If if we go, we're not going to be. We'll go through this again if this virus raises its head again next next winter. You can't shut the economy down again next year. It's I would agree. We need a Manhattan project a a Moonshot. To you know a collective effort amongst the pharmaceutical companies and research companies something to address this and I one hundred percent agree I think the pressure. I do not want to minimize people are going through this or your friend who lost his mother, and and and obviously it's a horrific thing and people are dying which I hate to see, but the it is crushing It's crushing capitalism and his crushing our businesses and I'm leaving every day with you. Know just pressure on my chest like I've never felt before because. The responsibility and I think you and I both have that same feeling towards our teams in in. We wouldn't be where we are. If it weren't for every all the hard work and dedication that they they they put in It's so incredibly tough to navigate through this, and that's why your insight I so incredibly important and valuable, not only speak your. and. You say that really well. When you talk about the pressure on your chest, I mean I think I. think that for some people is it's it's not? It's not just saying hey. I've got a lot of pressure. It's like they really do feel it. I mean I think they're evil that that there's so much pressure on them right now for the fear A. What's going to happen afterwards? What's going to happen in my business? What's going to happen to a my employees? How are they? GonNa Survive and I. Think you know you you're going to see. I heard it on the news this morning. I was listening to one of the news channels this morning. They were talking about. You know what we haven't seen from this. Yet is the statistics of the number of people that are. You know domestic violence in the home where they just they are losing control of their own actions, suicides. You know issues with alcohol and drugs that are gonNA skyrocket because of this because everybody's GonNa, start trying to figure out some way to try to deal with this and damper it some and we don't know what all that is going to cost us yet and I think that's really my biggest point is is that you know it may be that the cost of Hugh? The cost to humanity may be larger because of what we're doing. Then it would have been if we just let this play out like any virus. Because I just part of it I can't get my head around. You know we didn't react this. We've never reacted this way to any other virus and I just can't get my head around why this one is so uniquely different. I was at Disneyland with my cousin just a little over a month ago and How to great time in this, we knew this was around, but it was nothing like what it is what it is today and I was just thinking this morning because Disney just announced that they're laying offer furloughing two hundred twenty nine thousand employees at all of their. And I you know those people were all working and You know helping us going rides and. Get into the park and now they're all you know all out of work S. I was yeah, so I was at rest to and I. Think about that sometimes, too. It's like how many how many had it. What four five six thousand people? I don't know how many there. A lot of people and that was right in February. Yeah, middle so. It's this has happened so quickly. and from a business standpoint I think probably the closest to this was the Great Depression, but even then I've been using the analogy garden hose, and if you're outside, and you're watering your plants, and your hoses turned all the way on a recession or even a depression. It's like you know. The hose has been turned off twenty five percent or A. They're certainly not as much water coming out, but they're still water coming out. We're fortunate. Fortunate in our business there's still a little bit of water coming out, but in some businesses I mean there's no water at all I. Mean it's just completely We're located in a mall or in an office tower that's attached to a mall and this has been closed now I think its third full week, and no one is allowed in is just a complete ghost town, and all of these stores and restaurants in the food court and I I don't know how. It's Kinda how I see with my business right now? When I look at my my numbers three weeks ago. We were pacing. We weren't killing it against last year, but we were pacing. basically one hundred percent. Last year we were we were. We were right on track, essentially doing the same thing. We were GONNA do we did last year? A were were now down to seventy five percent last year, so I'm down twenty five percent, and this is only been you know. Essentially. It's been a month since we shut down everything and. You know we'll, we'll pull out of that. I. Do think if this happens quickly we'll. We'll get back to work quickly. We'll pull out of that will be fine but it's a moving target. You know every single day I have my people reporting. They reported directly to me. what a any cancelation that come in, so we're keeping up with it and you know every single day. And so you know every literally every single day you know you can you can. You can recharge your numbers and re project. What is best? You can the rest of the year, but this is A. Is the most difficult thing I don't care how skilled you are numbers. Nobody can predict where their business is going to be this year. which is you know? That's GONNA that that affects everybody, not just the business owner, but if you own view, own stock in that company is GonNa Affect The stock price if it's in, your 401k is going to affect your 401k. The, we've not sell what we have felt so far. I don't believe is even. Drop in the bucket. What we're GONNA feel before it's over with now I i. do think it will come back I don't think this is. This is not a situation where you go. Oh, my God, you know my 401k's down fifty percent I better sell it and take cash that to me as a horrible mistake. Don't make that mistake, because if his once you do that, you have lost it. Stay, the course it. Those companies will come back. Most most companies most of the companies that you would invest in are gonNA. Come back, but the small mom and POPs. That donut shop down the street or coffee shop or that small. News car! Lot I mean a lot of those people. Will Not. Ever reopened their businesses and those are the ones that i. you know I really feel for them. Meet me to what advice do you have on in regards to just Let me rephrase this. What are you doing right now for your own personal well-being to help alleviate the stress. Yeah so you know obviously. Now work in the home I said my wife did. Today has taken. You think of one positive thing that has come out of any of this, and she looked at me without even bat an eye. She said Yeah. We've spent more time together last three weeks and we have in the last three years. There is some positive to come out of it. You know I I for me. Personally I'm working down here in my basement and. you know my? Or Spaniel and so she she spends a good deal of time down here at my feet, and it's Kinda it's Kinda Nice sometimes. You know you look down. You forget about all the other stuff. Dogs have way doing Orient. I tried to go for a walk with her. You know every day and get out of here and just get away from it all It's You know I will tell you though I. AM getting up earlier now than I've ever gotten up. I mean I just I wake up at five o'clock in the morning. I can't sleep. And so I'm up and and. I can tell you that by the time I get to about five or six o'clock in the afternoon. Be Old fashioned have never tasted. So I try and at the end of every day try to try to end my my workday I'll my front porch i. just go out on the front porch and set of, but I will also say that I'm seeing the same people walking up and down the street, usually about saying times, and I'm beginning to think they're probably looking at me every day. Going man got a problem. Day doing that. GotTa find a way. You got to get away from a little bit. It can't can't be a hundred percent on your mind all the time. Your drive you crazy. What any books that you recommend, leadership, books or podcasts that you listened to for inspiration or guidance well I'll tell you I could if I flip the camera around I could show you a book. A bookcase full of books I think any book on leadership is worth reading. Honestly I enjoy reading books. Leadership does our read anybody's book. Out I mean everybody's got something to share. But I also enjoy books on on on history and and on war, because I think you learn a lot from just decisions that people have to make in really tough times. Being a World War Two buff and a leave with this question, I also am very fascinated by world war, two Jewish and my grandfather lost his first wife and daughter, in the Holocaust, and I've always had a great deal of admiration for Churchill and how he stood up against Hitler and the Nazis and stock took such a standard What do you think Churchill would do in the situation? In this situation. You know. I'll be honest with you. And and I don't I'm not saying this I don't I'm not leaning into anything political here I'm just giving you my opinion. I think that the person in our country I think that trump is doing an amazing job I think. Churchill would be proud of the job that is being done on. The leadership that I've seen from him. Take away all the other stuff. The peripheral stuff right the goofy stuff. He says on twitter. Whatever all that kind of. None of that matters right now me. The only thing that matters is are the right decisions being made. Are we putting the trust in the right people and when I watch him those news conferences? And when the other people when he has the doctor, talking or the surgeon general talking if you if you watch trump wild, those people are talking. I've never seen a president. Listen so intently. To to what they're saying as what he does. And so I think that I think we have the right leadership at the right time for this crisis. I really believe that. with Churchill done better job. I don't know I mean this is something. The world's never faced and. Of course you can make the argument. The world never faced what what he faced them either certainly with what happened to Jewish population I mean that. was you know the whole world ignored? That was going on. Yeah, nobody wanted to acknowledge and even though they knew it it was it wasn't. It wasn't a secret. People knew it. Most countries chose to ignore it right But you know in times of crisis. The right people always step up. You know I think about that, too. And and and you know President Truman at the time. We Know Truman was the first guy to recognize Israel. That's right, you know. He was the first world leader to recognize Israel as a country as an independent country, and so you always have the right people in the right places I think at the right time, so will back on this I. Think we'll agree on that, too. But? It's A. Yeah it's, it's a these are. You and I I'll tell you you and I may have prior to starting a month ago. We would both probably agree that. Our lives have been fairly easy that we haven't really had too many crises to have to worry about ride. Nine eleven was bad, but it was so so compacted where it happened right. We, we probably would agreed that. We lived our whole life without having to do any kind of real sacrifice, and and now with this is over with. We'll be telling our grandchildren and our great grandchildren about what we went through in the crisis. Twenty there's. No doubt, this is the most adverse. Most horrible thing I've ever faced as as a business leader as as as honestly a human being. It's It's on your, it's. said to my GM's the day on the call. We were talking about this and I can see the the. They're all worried. They're all worried every time I. Get on a call within the. We're meeting twice a week now with zoom. So we can see each other and I know what's on your mind. Every time we have a call. They are waiting for another shoe to drop there waiting for me to say we haven't done enough. We're going to have to do more whatever but I said to them the other day. Look, is this hard? There's no question this is hard. This is hard on everybody. But we can take a little bit of solace in this. Our forefathers, mothers and fathers that that that were in this country and and survive the the revolution. The people that Fall George Washington at Bunker Hill and didn't have boots, her coats or tents. They had no food. And they and they. They still stayed the course to to accomplish what they had to accomplish. We're not having to do that. We're not having to fight our own brothers like we did in the civil war when I have. Family and and we're not we're not living in foxholes. In in Germany you know in the middle of winter without proper gear without enough ammunition and fighting fighting an enemy that had seemingly no end to reserves to keep coming out. So I try to put it in that perspective that yeah, we're. We're giving up a lot right now and I. Think there's GonNa be a lot of suffering. When this is all said and done. We're GONNA. Look, go, man, we our generation This was a hit, but There is plenty of other generations before us. That gave a lot more. It was a lot harder what they went through and I just think you have to just keep reminding yourself that. I don't know how you get through. That is so well. Put and we will leave it at there. I run so much respect for you in admiration. Everything that you've done at a at atoms threat your your career is just remarkable and really enjoyed here in the story and in getting this advising in council from you. WanNa. spout especial thanks to Michael K from the policy along with Chris Peasley, Tom pinkus and Brian Parsons Our partners have apology made this interview with Ron? Possible guys. Really good guys, so thank you to them I think you to Kevin for heaven, Horton, for producing and engineering the show and Ron Thank. You very much, you and. Davis has been great. Thank you very much. And I hope you will be, you'll be well as well and my my best wishes to your Your three grandkids I'm three kids and five grandchildren in your your wife Kim. Thank you for the time. Thank you.

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James Kennedy, Raquel Leviss, & Billie Lee - 02/04/19

Watch What Happens Live with Andy Cohen

25:31 min | 1 year ago

James Kennedy, Raquel Leviss, & Billie Lee - 02/04/19

"Welcome to the Bravo. Clubhouse for the podcast division of watch. What happens live with me? Andy cohen. Hi, everyone. Welcome to the watcher happens live podcast special voice. You're hearing. This is a special report. I'm Darren Karp. I am Andy Cohen's longtime assistant of almost a decade. And we have such a major announcement today. Little Benjamin Alan Cohen was born on Monday night at six thirty five PM Pacific standard time. He literally is filling the biggest shoes ever. And we are so excited announced that he is nine pounds to Ince's. He's just a healthy negative. And I'm so happy to report that Andy is happy and healthy as well. We look forward to welcoming Benjamin into our weird little world. I'll take people who don't own James made t shirts for two hundred Alex. What is Billy Lee, James Kennedy? And Rick Cal neva's on watch. What happens I've now? I am Andy Cohen in our west coast. Bravo clubhouse on a Monday night with three guys who might just hang your till tomorrow. Because it seems like they're Tuesdays are still pretty free from Vanderbilt rules, please say Ida serves hostess with the most is Billy Lee. Threw himself white Konya DJ James. Former miss Simone sonoma's county. Raquel levin. The three of you. James? Are you drinking tonight? I think you just answered that. A little a little, okay? Over the bar. It's like if all the real housewives were here except for less noisy. It's housewife impersonator and host of reality. Check on radio, Andy, which is now five days a week. It's our friend, Amy Phillips. Do you impersonate anyone from vendor poem rules, all maybe the what Columbia do? Good. Let's get started. You didn't like her clap it in your face to know? Why would you no one likes anyone clopping in their face? I agree. However, I love your hair injured jumpsuit. Every party, Tom, Tom, but not everyone was lucky enough to snag it invite. And I'm not even talking about James check this out formally meal. Meal, Taxotere whatever and let her she just text me. Lisa is adamant that you shouldn't come in flowers. Tom, Tom, Tom, go. My feel go help you wanna hang out with me. You want to hang out with me? We. Oh, DJ James Kennedy. Do you feel bad for Kristen that she got uninvited from the party? Look a little lonely than say. Yeah. And it was pretty good potty. So well DJ James Kennedy. You did attend the big event. But when you got there, you realized you would be spinning tracks in DJ closet. Watch on. Done thinking, I'm going to be sitting on these boxes. DJ -ing in this closet for the night. James's cubbyhole. It's his time out area. Are you in a closet every other run out? Seeing James DJ in the back room of Tom Tom in a sweaty little office is like the best birthday present. You can imagine. James, what was your move there when you would go to the crowd? What did you do? Is that what you do to them? Yeah. Yeah. I've a few different DJ moves. But another one one of them's like this. Okay. Good. Give me another one. Jesus. Hands. I love that. Okay. What did you think of Lisa getting drunk at the party if you ever seen Lisa? Yeah. Fun right on this. Okay. Billy, James and recall or waiting your questions. But before we get to those. Here's what three things I am obsessed with tonight. I recall might be a soft-spoken beauty Queen with the love for pasta. But she's also a real stand by your man type of gal. Even if everyone else can't stand. Her man watch I've been sleeping with three years. Like, I need more. Chris. You're the only person recalled that doesn't see it. Deserves so much more than someone who. Molly. He becomes a different person. We just with something to so low James high-seas chase me like a Queen recall literally has the girl that James in front of her and kill us sitting there like. Just the birth. And it's. What was your reaction watching all this? You obviously lived like I didn't have an audio recording of James cheating on me or like any other proof. So at the end of the day, I trust James more than any of these other girls or people that are telling me that he's cheating on me. So I have to go with my gut. All right. Well, while James's relationship with his friends might be the pits. The ways supports family makes him a tall, man. Roll it on like financially put him up other school five grand. I'd come home from school, and my mom would just end up. Drinking wine Davinci breakout into fights cranes nine months sewer. Are you helping fam-? Fam- now. Why wouldn't I treat? Everybody thing. Stepped up to help his family twenty six years old. That's quite a big responsibility. So what was your reaction when you saw this the conversation between Lisa and your mom that was took me by surprise. But it was really nice to see Lisa very caring full me outside of the workplace. And it definitely gave me closure into thinking. You know, I'm going to be left behind in this trial showed that you can. Okay. Any thoughts about your mom? No. I mean, my mom didn't tell me that she was filming day. Literally like, what is this? So you know, that was very secretive, and I texted her off there. I was like, oh, you told me that you did your mom told Lisa that she needs to be a mother figure for you. I don't think she meant it like that. Because my mom has been an amazing mother figure her entire life. You know from from raising me to cooking and putting me through private school in London. She's done. Okay. Second katie's planned girls night into take over James's Tuesday residency at sir. But here's what instead of just pissing off James, which she successfully did katie's girls night in also managed to have another woman feeling very left out. Let's watch. And then Billy. I want your thoughts on the other side. I figure why not have a girls night. You did not include any start making not. Will you'll hit I'm trend and its growth night. That's my out. You put it out there that people are transphobic when lies numbers that were translocated that for me, you're you're dismissed you're not he better than me LaLa. Billy is insinuating. That uh girls are transphobic. She's just blocked. Thoughts. First of all, I never said the word, transphobic and second I want to clarify that. I think katie's body is beautiful. I love her body. I love the curves even had body contouring. So I can be more curvy like her. I have to say, though, I you saying that in reference to you saying that she was playing the cart. Yes. Yeah. And there you have what I say privilege for her to not even ask or see how I'm feeling coming from trans experience. No one cared. What I said, they were just yelling attacking me. They wouldn't hear me. And when I tweeted that I had no idea Katie planet. I honestly was tweeting, sir. I'm like how come my place of work place that I love is not including me in something. And I really felt very emotional about it. And it was a trigger for me. And what I apologize with Katie. I'm sorry to Katie that the trigger was so deep it was really a lot of childhood things came up for me and it landed on her because she planned it. But when I apologized to her. She said, I'm sorry. I just didn't have enough. Time. And I think this is a universal discussion with people in America. Let's get out of her own asses. Let's make some time and be there for the people. Sometimes when I meditate I think about how is it to be a black man in America house. It's b- black woman a black trans woman in America. Like, sometimes we just need to stop being so busy and so self involved, and that's my whole conversation. There's transit all over the world watching this show, and I represent that in a way, and it really was a big trigger for me. And I apologize that all landed on Katie. All right. Finally this season. I guess felt like they were on some people's do not invite list. But one thing I pride myself on is inviting everyone to meddle in other people's lives. So here's what Billy Jones for you to give your pump rules friends in front of me Unser listed advice. Biggest mistake Sheena makes in relationships any of shape boss to heart quick chief those. What advice do you have for Kristen social Justice warrior approach to exacting revenge? We all know, it's revenge. Healing and meditation. Billy you accuse LaLa of thinking she's better than everyone else. How do you think she can stay grounded despite living big life with fiancee, she's staying grounded. Lapping all the time. Clapping. If your high for thank you, do you quest question the strength of Jackson Brittany's relationship like some of their other friends too. Well, no, I don't I think Jackson Britney are great for each other. And I'm very happy about they're gonna wear. Arianna doesn't want kids and Sandoval said, that's a dealbreaker. What should he do? I think he should adopt solo. It's still be together. I don't know how that would work. How can start see avoid future birthday meltdowns? What's biggest insecurity things just wasted on a vet bay? I mean, let's let's results to getting wasted. Thank you very much. The next week on veterbra, Bruce, James talks to his mom after therapy. The result of which will probably make James need more therapy. Take a look at this peak. I just think sending some boundary would be a good thing. Like, you can't talk to me about that. When he owed. He didn't send you enough money. He doesn't send me clarify. Don't have firm. He's the one that left me with my three children with nothing. Yes, I'm bitter. I'm sending you two hundred dollars. Every three days was I? This is bullsh- silica. Chuck, no, I feel like the child, and I am the child. No, you are you are to remember that. Very intense. Very intense. Whoa. Let's go to darla from Iowa. Hey, darla what your question? Andy congrats on baby co win. Yep. My questions for James which of your comments the season. Do you regret the most? And we'll you'd be writing everybody. Apologies like Randall. What do I regret the most probably everything I said on pride of this? Labor's awful. And I really shouldn't have drank as much as I did. However that won't be any apology letters going out. Okay. Let's go to Donna from Michigan. Donna what your question? Hey, and even questions for Billy Lee, Billy after all the girls night in drama, which is girls. Do you? Consider genuine friends today. What my girl here, and I have to say Oriana, she like for some reason. She just gets it. She kind of she's not so self involved, and she really tries to understand income from my experience as well. Nice. Lisa from South Carolina leads to what your question. Speak to you. Thank you talk to you. Thank you questions for all again, if you're least Vanda pump, would you have fired James for his actions towards Britney and Katie. I wanna hear from Billy Leon, what do you think? Well, first of all, it's a restaurant. There's alcohol involved. We're all stressed out. We're working a lot of our. But if you're working you're not supposed to be drinking. Yes. Everyone in the restaurant biz movie insurance. Single person's drinking pride weaving or not exactly. And my thing is I feel like Kristen is the problem. She comes in and she attacks a lot of people, including myself in you, and I do think it was wrong with his comment. But I don't think you should have been fired period. OK recall is there anything you seeing you need more proof. But it seems like there's a lot of anecdotal evidence. No. Wall of of you cheating on her. No. I mean, like, I mean, a woman is coming up and saying like, I had them do we know what's in it for her? The greatest show in television. No of hope she she's had a crush on Jan or very long time. And you know, she's upset that thing with me. I don't know. I I don't trust. I trust Jayme. K yeah, you're guilty. Swigging that move. No. I'm not guilty swigging. Okay. It's game time. Everybody on. James DJ in a closet, but what's even worse is that one of his visitors was Jack's his only visitor was Jack's until now because it's time for. Who wants to take your DJ headphones saying these remote is and go over to the green screen Raquel slide over here, you guys are going to be looking at the monitor where various Bravo liberties and celebrities are going to be joining James in the closet. You too will give James clues to get together whose with him if he can get seven correct in sixty seconds than you all win into who you what? Okay. Perfect. Okay. Go guys, you're giving him clues ex girlfriend. Kristen. Russian, diana. Russian president the president of Russia. Oh, no idea. And I don't you. Call yourself. Yes. Your boss pump. The guy that visited you Tom Tom's party. The he came and got you a drink Leah me. Yes. John. I don't know. I con. Oh, wow. Iraq, feminine sti- con. Oh, fly law. Seeing the main things. All right. It was fair. Amy. You do a Tom Schwartz impersonation. Starchy. It's my birthday though. It's no one else in. No you do. Lisa Vanderbilt and this'll broken. Thank you very much. You can hear Amy aradio Andy weekdays five days a week to needs from Chicago. Denise switcher question. Masel to having a baby. Thanks. I'm so excited for you. So we're co I wanna know what advice your parents give you on your relationship with James, and how the other girls treat you. My parents are very supportive of me and my relationship, obviously, my parents want the best for me. So my parents sometimes do give James a little bit of a hard time. But it's tough love as far as the girls go, you know, my mom's like, they're they're digging themselves their own grave. So that's all we can really do. I'm trying to figure out who you look like who do people say you look like, Connie Britton. Yes, you. Getting a lot. Oh, her the other day. That's so I was like, wow. That I saw that. Sorry. I have to take a little knee time every once in a while everybody. It's time for my laws jackals since Amy Phillips Bravo like it's her job because it is her job. I thought I would let her give her Bravo rose and thorn, Amy, what's your rose? Is to Kelly Dodd okay because there's no longer a cooler and loose. No, see she has a boyfriend. Now, he's a plastic surgeon. Did not realize Amy's up with the news and few. Okay. What's your Bravo? Thorn, Bravo, thorn is to fish fish. You are making Bethany Frankel very sick. She has an allergic reaction, and she can't tolerate this any longer. And I'm very Bethany say about the fish. I can't like I can't be a relic in the air like Brenton. Dying. Help me. Say it's like friends even know is. Billy. Hey, what happens I fans Rachel here. Your podcast producer just a special announcement from better help before your after show begins. Is there something that interferes with your happiness, or is preventing you from achieving your goals if so better help online counseling is there for you. Better. Help offers licensed professional counselors who specialize in issues such as depression, anxiety stress relationships trauma, family conflict, and so much more connect with your professional counselor in a safe in private online environment. Anything you shares confidential, and it's very convenient. You can now get help at your own time and your own pace, you can schedule secure video or phone sessions plus chat and text with your therapist. And if you're not happy with your counselor. You can request a new one at anytime. No additional charge. Best of all. It's truly an affordable option WWAFL listeners. Get ten percent off the first month with discount code Andy. So I not get started today. Go to better help dot com slash Andy. Simply fill out a questionnaire to help them assess your needs and get matched with the council. You'll love that's better. Help dot com slash Andy. James Calvin banned rules buying the bar from reality. Check on radio. Andy's siriusxm channel one o two. It's Amy Phillips. Let's go to Jill from Indiana. Hey, Joe which question handy. My question is for Billy leave high Indiana. Oh. That's so cool. Why did you put blame on Christian for riling James when he shouldn't be acting that way in the first place? Well, her entire mission was to go and a fact James as energy she literally wanted to ruin his day. She said it even her best friend Southey was like, whoa, you're psycho. So I'm going to put the blame on her. Because her mission was his mission was to have a good time to you know, pride is really important for us. And I love James personally. Because he's always there. He's always supporting me, everything as an activist. He comes he shows up. He'll DJ for free. If he has to and Kristen, you know, I've tried to include her back in the day. And she she never she never wanted to be included. And then for her to come there on pry, which is a special day for me, an attack one of my close friends. I wasn't having it. All right Phillips, you watching jersey house was absolute last good, right? Is so good. Oh boy. Margaret pigtails are talking. They are talking. Have you tried to Margaret you haven't been I want? Coming on. I can. Let's go to Jennifer from Michigan, Jennifer what question. Hi, andy. My question fervor Cal. Hi. Right. What did you think of LA last apology towards you? And what is your relationship today with her? What did you think of LA allies apology toward you? And and what's your relationship today? What policy my missing the policy? I just I think that said sorry for calling you a twice. She I feel like okay. So I feel like that apology wasn't very sincere because you know, today she still like kind of makes fun of me. And like she thinks little of me. And I don't think that that's women empowerment, so our relationship isn't really good today. We don't talk to each other. And I'd rather not talk to her okay loss, call Kerry from Long Island, Kerry what you should. In questions things congrats on the baby. And and and and being a being veteran myself or we wanna thank you for putting that flag behind you. And and you really kind words you had for the military families that really a lot. That was awesome. Thanks, buddy. I really appreciated that flag is is it's oh, it's right behind me here too. We brought it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's awesome. Oh, that's great. Intel h I didn't I was about to say oh that flags waiting for us in New York. But we have it here too. Good. So my my questions for the whole group is for for James recap, Billy, and you got this. You can sign on this one. So all the manic it's going on this which is more likely that you'll get invited to Jackson Brittany's pointing or LaLa in Randall's wedding. I'm go to evening. Let's be real. I think that you are more likely to be invited to LA LA because I feel like you had a real friendship at one for Jack food. Oh, really? Yeah. Me and Jackson westbound back somehow. You know what? I mean. Yeah. And I love Brittany. I really do love her. Yes. She the beautiful soul. And I think sometimes, you know, because James, and I are close, and we work together a lot like, you know, she was affected by that. Our friendship was affected by I really do love and appreciate her. All right. I wanna thank the gang van bruise. To everybody. Thanks for listening to the podcast everybody. Hope you enjoyed the show. Remember, new episodes? Go live Monday through Friday at four PM eastern time. Make sure you're subscribed. Have a great rest of your life.

riling James Billy Andy cohen Lisa Vanderbilt Kristen Tom Tom katie James Kennedy James DJ Amy Phillips Billy Lee Bravo Raquel levin Benjamin Alan Cohen LA Jackson Brittany Amy Darren Karp Rick Cal Ince
What Conservative Means

Slate's The Gist

34:13 min | 1 year ago

What Conservative Means

"Hi, Mike Pesca we've got a great show for you today, but before we launch into it, here's a word from our first sponsor. I got a freezer full of stakes and not just stakes. But I got the they got these cute little boneless pork chops delicious and they're from Omaha Steaks, and I want to share them with you. Well, not share. I mean it's, it's great offer you go Maha stakes dot com. Type gist in the search bar, and you get seventy four percent off the Father's Day steak fix gift package now for only five ninety nine that's Omaha Steaks dot com. Search, just don't wait. This offer ends soon. This show may contain words that would offend the sensibility of certain habits ways of monasteries. It's Wednesday, June fifth two thousand nineteen from slate. At the gist. I'm Mike Pasqua. Scott Peterson is in trouble, first of all, because he's named Scott Peterson. No, not that Scott Peterson. We're talking about the one who killed people only indirectly Scott Peterson the Broward County sheriff, who was stationed at the parkland school, Marjory Douglas, high school on the day of the shooting, and who did not a lot. He really did nothing talked into a shoulder walkie talkie, a bunch and stayed outside the building, where the shooting was taking place and for this. He's been charged officially multiple counts, including neglect of a child and culpable negligence. Those are the official charges, but the real charge is cowardice when I heard about this, I was opposed to his being charged. It seemed an example of a mob, mentality the mob, justified in its anger, and anguish. But it did seem like scapegoating no matter how blameworthy a person Peterson is also affecting my decision. Was that prominently quoted in the effort to get Peterson charged with crimes was Andrew Pollock? He is the father of meadow, Pollock who died in the parkland killings every step of the way, Andrew Pollock has loudly championed what I perceived to be the wrong policies. He took up a lot of conversation in the meeting with Donald Trump and gave Donald Trump, a lot of verbal approval in the aftermath. He wants more guns. More armed teachers, a hardening of targets, but he never ever talks gun control. Any oysters the conversation away from that. He is really really, really eager to see Scott Peterson rotten a jail cell. All that aside should Peterson's cowardice really be a crime. Have a criminal element to it. The experts say it's going to be very hard to prove. Of this case. The negatively the negligence charge is unlikely to stick it could perhaps set a bad precedent. It just doesn't seem like Peterson's actions fit the definition of these charges. But I also think, in addition to the cowardice that Peterson showed there's a kind of cowardice in the in the crowd pointing to one individual who failed them and wanting to take not his job, not his salary, which is proper and has been done, but to deprive him of his liberty. It's an example of retribution. I have seen a lot of the videos and I have read a lot of reports, and there really is nothing to excuse Peterson. He was clearly derelict in his duty. And it is not a stretch to think that if he had acted differently bravely, properly that some children may be alive today, who aren't and if he gets prison time. It's not that I'll feel sympathy for him. But my narrow. Interests in one person's feelings. They're not the same as what the states interest is state versus Peterson shouldn't rest on whatever joy I or parents take in Peterson getting his come up. Is it better for society to incarcerate the officer who fails to keep the peace, maybe Scott Peterson in jail cell? We'll give the grieving a moment's solace. I actually don't think so I think they may be feeling vindictive. But Peterson in jail does not offer. True vindication. The guy is certainly guilty. But that is more of a societal designation than a legal one on the show today. I should feel about candidates Warren and Biden and their environmental plans. Some say only crews can see such varied shades of green, but first George will is out with a new book, and it explains everything he's ever thought or will think kind of his will is long been one of the most prominent and eloquent voices on the right. And now we know why all because of Madison, no not. Billy James just follow James Madison, and you'll do wells a country until Woodrow Wilson comes in screws, it all up old scores are settled though. Baseball is broached. This conversation between me and George will. He of the conservative sensibility. Doctors are doing the best they can to fight cancer. The most challenging disease humankind has ever faced, but they're often limited by two d images to understand a patient's three D anatomy. What if this could be different Dr Christopher Morley? And Dr Osma Chowdhry created Medved's technology that can take two dimensional patient, imaging, whether an MRI or cat scan and convert into three dimensional holographic renderings, this will fundamentally change, how doctors visualized cancer doctor Morley. And Chowdhry thought this technology might just not be possible because computing power just wasn't there, but Verizon five G ultra wideband. We'll give them the ability to do this Verizon five G ultra wideband will help give doctors the ability to fight cancer like never before. George will has been a if not the preeminent voice in conservative thought for low these last thirty or forty years, not, until now has he sat down and just written down. Exactly what he means by conservative thought or rather the conservative sensibility. George will, thanks for being on the gist, glad to be with you. So I heard an interview that you had designs to perhaps name, this book, the closing argument. Although that maybe says something about the actuarial tables as much as it does your thought. Yes. Someone suggested that I said, I'm not going anywhere. It sounds like the first paragraph of on a bitchy wary. So now I wanted to say the conservative sensibility of sensibility, to me is more than an attitude and less than under Genda. It's a, it's a way of experiencing the flexible events and in the concert. Actives cases, the way of being comfortable with an undesired unplanned out of control reality, which is now our, which is which would apply to what many times, I suppose in our history, including during Wilson's era as you point out repeatedly. Well, ideally, it would apply to a free society at any time. But the whole point of a free society is that it is it is shaped by the spontaneous order from below and not the plans from above. So do you think that if we adjust listened to Madison, we'd be better off now? Or was it perhaps inevitable that the best thinking and best laid plans at the time we're going to come smack into the reality of not just the design system? But the lived system, I think, to answer the first part of your question. I think we'd be much better off, if as medicine envisioned, we had a government still limited delegated, and enumerated powers. Think we'd be better in many ways. But the most interesting aspect of the twentieth century in American political thought was the remarkably forthright way in which progressives repudiated, the founders and the remarkable success. They've had in making that repudiation. Stick, Woodrow Wilson was the first president to criticize the American founding, which you do not do peripherally. He did it root and branch. You said the heart of the matter is the medicine constitutional architecture of the separation of powers as a mistake. He said it was all very well. Once when we were four million people living within twenty miles eighty percent of us living within twenty miles of Atlantic Tidewater. But now we're great nation. He said United by steel rails, and copper wire and all that stuff. So therefore, he said, historic non sequitur therefore, we need a government that can act with dispatch and power, nimble nece, and therefore, we must get rid of the separation of powers, the better too. Immense abate the modern presidency the occupant of which Wilson thought would always look something like Woodrow Wilson well, during Woodrow Wilson's time the population of the United States went from under a hundred million to over. But now it's well over three hundred million so was he was he wrong or just a right? But off by a matter of scale. No, he was wrong. But the mistake is to assume and this was the progressive assumption that the larger society becomes the more complex, it becomes the more susceptible it is to governance from the center, the reverse is true. The more complicated society becomes the more. It depends on market forces to deliver information. That's a market is an information generating device and the less susceptible. It is to central planning. There's a lot in my book about Frederick Hayek, the Nobel prize winning economist. Who popularized the term the fatal conceit to believe that you can when you intervene in complex systems you can control the outcome. Whereas in fact, the more complicated society gets the less information can be had by government particularly and therefore government is app to blunder more and more. You you're you've long been a critic of the new deal. And you think that the only reason that the United States lifted itself out of the great depression was the war? So it had nothing to do with the new deal. Well, I do say that two things first the depression, within the depression that is what happened in nineteen thirty seven was a larger contraction of the economy than occurred in nineteen twenty nine the fact is that the United States was a the federal the government was more interventionist than most of the governments in most of the countries afflicted by the great, depression, and the United. States took longer than most other countries did to recover from it the recovery being as you, as you said, in response to the need to become the arsenal of democracy. I would think that a lot, there's a lot of history that shows a couple of things. One is that Roosevelt started, as someone who wanted to rein in spending, and then shifted towards being Akins, Ian, and that seems to have correlated with economic success just as in our last is what Bernanke said, just as in our last recession, though, it was widely criticized the amount of stimulus and spending that seems to have correlated with much more successful recovery in America than, as compared to western European countries that went the authority route that certainly is arguable that with, with regard to the depression, itself, the point the criterion by which the new deal wanted to be judged was curing unemployment unemployment, never. Came below fourteen percent before we began as I say to become the arsenal of democracy and sector, the treasury Morgan thaw said in one thousand nine hundred forty is that we spent all his money, we'd simply haven't made progress in that by their own criterion. They were not a success. It is no accident comrade as the Marxist to say it is no accident that in nineteen sixty four when I cast, my first presidential vote cheerfully for Barry, Goldwater in the memory of whom my book is dedicated seventy percent of the American people said they trusted the federal government to do the right thing all the time or almost all the time today. That's below twenty percent. So as governments pretensions have grown, it's prestigious plummeted, and partly because this is the irony of history. Very Goldwater lost an enormous landslide that swept in a liberal legislative majority in congress. For the first time. Time since Roosevelt. Lost it over the court packing plan in nineteen thirty eight and for a few years, there in the nineteen sixties the government could do whatever it wanted on the liberal agenda, and it did. And the as I say, the prestige of government has been going down ever since because of the actions of government. I mean all those Paul started to crater in response to Vietnam and Watergate indeed, they did. But also in response to disappointment over the interventions of the great society that produce something less than most people would feel a great society. I think my man Goldwater, who, of course, lost forty four states in nineteen sixty four I like to say that he actually one in sixty four just took sixteen years to count the votes. He was a creative loser in that he changed the American vocabulary changed the Republican party. He gave the the rising set of young intellectuals. Organized around Milton Friedman and Hayek, and others gave them confidence. And as a result of the Republican party became a conservative party is it possible for that to happen with the Democratic Party? If say candidacy, if someone like Bernie Sanders doesn't win many states book could change minds, or change the alignment of the party. It's hard to say I I'm afraid that, if that if Bernie Sanders ran and lost badly, which I suspect, he would people would in that case say, let's not do that, again on the other hand, someone like Elizabeth Warren, who has an enormous intellectual self confidence. And an an quite astonishing array of plans to fix this that, and the other thing she could I think, by staffing, up agencies and by staffing up the party, she could make a lasting difference. But if you don't like central planning, you must not like Elizabeth Warren. Do you. Think differently of her than Bernie Sanders. Do you have more respect for her plans? I do. I think I think she has a firm grip on half a point. The firm grip is this. She says we have this enormous government and it's become the plaything of special interests of the rent-seekers that I talk about repeatedly in the conservative sensibility, and she's right? It was a libertarian in Washington, someone at the Cato Institute, who said, look, if you, if you set out a picnic, you expect to draw aunts, and the federal budgets the biggest picnic in the world. And this is why five of the ten most affluent counties by per capita income in the United States are in the Washington area. Washington has no natural resources doesn't manufacture anything except laws regulations, and trouble. But she looks at it and says, what we need to do to correct. This make the government beggar at seems to me that's exactly the mistake what you want to do is withdraw the government from so much importance in allocating, wealth, and opportunity that would be an answer, particularly because she is the kind of person who is going on, and on, at all times about as most progressives do about campaign finance reform. But goodness, if you want to reduce the amount of money in politics, reduce the amount of politics and the allocation of money. It's quite simple. Do you think though that her critique of crony capitalism, do you take it, mostly as a critique of capitalism that happens to include the subset of crony capitalism or do you? You think that, that it is more targeted and pointed as she says she's not she identifies herself as a capitalist, but she wants to reign it in two you take her at her word, or does not matter because her solutions are all based on federal government policy. Both take her at her word that she thinks of herself as a capitalist to her bones is and that she doesn't understand what she does not understand is what public choice theory has taught us. Thanks to James Buchanan, another at the university of Virginia, for which he won the Nobel prize. What public choice theory is reduced to its essences in the private sector, people try to maximize their affluence in the public sector, people are motivated the same way they want to maximize their power, and what public choice theory does is it. D- romanticize is government. It says do not think of government as a collection of disinterested. Experts of the sort that progresses. For one century now, have been promising to put in charge of our lives government. Is it self in medicines terms, a faction it just happens to be the biggest faction of them all, and it gets big because people tend to think of it sentimentally as this unique island of disinterested us in another wise society? That is otherwise a mail stream of interested nece, that's Elizabeth Warren difficulty. She keeps spinning these new ideas of new laws and do agencies and all the rest, and she clings to this view that government is somehow going to be a deft and be is interested. Well, you're not you're not sure, libertarian, you believe there, there are some government functions that serve us all better than the private sector. I happen to believe that, that laissez faire is a government creation markets depend on laws and Judah -cations and contract. Acts and judicial enforcement, some people say conservatives appreciate the law of unintended consequences. I think conservatives are conservatives often because of that, which is, when you intervene in a complex society. The unintended consequences of your actions are apt to be larger than and contrary to the intended consequences is the current Republican party. Dignified. Of course, not a cult of personality. Never is. Okay. I ask you that because in two thousand twelve I was watching a pass lecture. You gave and someone asked you about partisanship, and you defended partisanship just on the basis of like minded people tend to cluster, we call these clustering parties. And this gives our politics way to end dignity. You said that. So it seemed to me you were saying a natural consequence of how we've clustered is that the parties will have dignity. That's right. As long as the what, what they cluster about our perceptions of society ideas of right and wrong sense of social Justice, and all the rest, when you drain away the intellectual content from partisan arrangements, you got culture personality, which is what the Republican party has become. What do you think of the argument lately, raised about impeachment that we allow it to the constitution? Well, I I'm not sure you have to find a place where he has violated the constitution. Well, the oath of office clause for instance. Well again, what is he violated? People say, well, obstruction of Justice. Here's the problem with that. If you think of impeachment as retrospective that is vengeance or as punishment for deeds committed. Or do you start start with, for example, the firing of Jim Komi that the president was exercising? A corporate dental power that is to remove the head of a federal agency is clear, therefore, you have to say, well, you should be impeached, because the exercise to corporate financial power or the corrupt motive. Well, then the corrupt motive was a stencil to obstruct an investigation, but a he didn't stop the investigation and be the investigation didn't find the underlying offense that some people have postulated, so indeed. I think that the damage. Done by Donald Trump's public manner by ringing certain bells that will never unraveling putting into play and normalizing kind of civic discourse that is extraordinarily damaging. I think this is going to be much more lasting than its damage. The Nixon's syrup tissues burglaries were, but try to make the impeachment ground on that we had a very bad election in two thousand sixteen the cure for a battle elections. A better election. That's good on with it. It is a stunning to me, how much energy, the democratic candidates today are devoting to things. They know are not going to happen such as abolishing, the electoral college something also, that is not going to happen. I, I want to ask you, as as you as I told you, I have gone back and looked at a bunch of your speeches and a bunch of your writing. And for over a decade, you've been noting that ours is the only industrial government, without a serious, socialist redistribution of. Party. I have a speech from two thousand seven where you gotta laugh in front of the Cato Institute, a conservative crowd by saying, how ridiculous it would be if a democratic candidate proposed a seventy percent tax rate, no one running for president in two thousand and eight is going to say, I have a bright idea. Let's repeal the great achievement of the nineteen eighties. Let's go back to nine to seventy percent marginal tax rates that existed before Ronald Reagan, which was the exact number that AOC proposed now that things seem to be shifting from what we always observed was happening. What's your explanation or diagnosis for that? Well, first of all, I think the there's an enormous extrapolation from pretty slender data about the popularity of socialism, particularly among people having a clue what they mean by that Lennon said, it's government control. The commanding. Heights of the economy, now that has been watered down over the years. So socialists say, well, actually, what socialism is, is government regulation of business combined with redistribution aggressive redistribution of income. If that's your definition of socialism, we've had it for quite a while house. Seven percent of the federal budget is transfer payments to individuals. The skies of America are dark with checks, going back and forth as we redistribute income. So first of all about socialism, it would be helpful if it's advocates would define the darn thing because they'd find that they're much less radical than they think they are. Well, if anything had to rebuke to the Republican talking point of this guy's a socialist. That guy's a socialist. Either courses is, of course, it is. We'll go straight from socialism as, as an antique concept to socialism as a as a fright term without ever, defining, it, George f will has been writing a syndicated column on politics for the Washington Post. In nineteen seventy four I have in my hand his sixteenth book. It is called the conservative sensibility. George will, thank you so much. I enjoyed it very much. Thank you for having me. Support for this podcast and the following message come from Google US army veteran Mitch Hoyt is showing that small businesses can do big things. Mitch founded skinny sticks maple syrup and started small tapping syrup from maple trees in his Wisconsin, backyard, and selling bottles at local stores, local demand, increasing Mitch was ready to make more syrup and expand his business. So we use Google ads to put his brand in front of people who were searching online for products like his in just the first month of using Google ads skinny sticks sold as much syrup as they had during the entire previous year. Now, they're connecting with customers worldwide with help from Google tools. Mitch Hoi is one of the millions of small business owners in the US using Google to grow. Learn how Google is helping businesses in your state at Google dot com slash economic impact. And now the spiel Joe Biden released his environmental plan along with a claim that he was a revolutionary. So today. I'm announcing my plan for clean energy revolution in outweighs, what we have to do to meet this challenge head on and how we're gonna get we're going to invest one point seven trillion dollars in securing our future, so that by twenty fifty the United States will we one hundred percent. Clean energy economy with net zero emissions. There's a lot in this plan that echoes the green new deal. In fact, it specifically endorses the framework of the green new deal. Not sure what that means. But that's okay. The green, no deals, a little fake itself Biden's plan is a major improvement over the worst fears of environmentalists who went scorched earth over the phrase middle ground that two word phrase middle. Oh ground caused a groundswell of opposition when it appeared a couple of weeks ago in a Reuters report titled exclusive presidential hopeful Biden looking for middle ground climate policy. Here was the quote that launched that headline it was from Biden adviser, who also served in the Obama administration, Heather Zych respect where they activists groups are coming from Zych said, what we learned from the Obama administration is unless we find middle ground on these issues, we risk, not having any policies. The respect to the activist groups was not mutual. Oh, it was not quote, a middle ground policy that supportive of more fossil Fuel Development is a death sentence for our generation in the millions of people on the frontlines of the climate crisis. Said version ni Prokosch the co founder of the sunrise movement, more fossils. You'll development. No one was actually proposing that. And in fact, what the middle ground actually was a middle ground between unclear. It was a phrase doesn't seem to be attached to anything tangible still precaut- added if Biden were serious about creating jobs for working people, he'd support the green new deal. Instead, he's taking a page from the oil and gas lobbies playbook. Well, taking a page from play books, actually did happen. But it wasn't the oil and gas lobby the Biden plan took some pages, perhaps, plagiar- Istiklal, so from environmental play books, so you got to ask yourself. What's the bad thing listening to the oil lobbyists, or just the taking of pages in general? Overall Biden's plan does not seek to drill. For more CO, two producing fuels it in fact seeks to spend one point seven trillion dollars eliminating the nation's net carbon emissions by twenty fifty. Okay. And with that with the plan that was pretty good, though. Not perfect. Sunrise said, you know what we're wrong. We overreacted. No say that what they did say was, you know, without us. The nightmare would have been upon us quote. The pressure worked said sunrise, executive director Vartiainen precaut-. We force them to backtrack. Today, he put out a comprehensive climate plan that sites, the green new deal names climate change as the greatest challenge facing America, and the world, he backtracked from what I guess, from the two word phrase middle ground, and all that could have meant from accommodation, Eliza to hobbits. I get activists got to activate and they never overreact. They simply raise awareness, and keep everyone in line Elizabeth. Warren also unveiled a green plan, she touted it in a campaign. Stop in Michigan last night. This environmental casualty bearing down on us, maybe the biggest challenge. How do we how do we be that? We do it. We've always done is Americans, we invest in science in avation, and in American workers, that her plan is more than Biden's. It will spend two trillion dollars not one point seven trillion. She also wants net zero emissions by twenty thirty which as I have noted on the shows in near impossibility. There is a counter argument to my claim that it is a near impossibility, and it goes like this only because of political will yes, zero auto deaths are also not possible, because of political will, we lack the political will to ban every car tomorrow, the twenty thirty number is signaling. Maybe you could say it's negotiating tactic. I have found out that just pointing out that zero emissions by twenty thirty is unrealistic that gives rise to the claim which I've been called many times a climate delay, or which, of course, is supposed to sound like climate denier, which is like a holocaust denier, or maybe just like climate denier, a guy who is saying that the earth is not warm. Ming which is definitely not what I am also. Let's be honest here. The climate is not going to get delayed or hurried up no matter what I say or think, but it is very tempting for a certain sort of person to charge, another sort of person with genocide adjacent beliefs, and I can't fight it. So I don't Warren not only supports the green new deal. I want you to know she fixes green to a lot of other programs. Turns out Warren has a plan for it. She has a green Apollo program. She has a green industrial mobilization program, and she has something called the green Marshall plan, which is also a lot like what Biden wants to do. Get all the nations together and really, really hunker down. So green new deal and green Marshall plan one day, the president will make up his or her own policies with their own distinct names. But I guess for now. We are reliant on World War. Two euro greatest hits collections in new environmentally conscious packaging soon, we'll have the green storm. The beaches at Normandy the green. Fear itself. The how green was my Tennessee valley thirty and Detaille will be green day or maybe something like green. American idiots sounds like a plan, which it is in which you'd only is the candidates, obviously, want to propose the largest things they can propose. There is no point in pre negotiating with themselves and having in their ambitions to play to some imagined opposition. But you know what the opposition actually isn't imagined? It's there and it's not just boogeyman or conservatives who deny global warming or gas lobbyists. There are lots and lots of people who are really worried about global warming. Really want to do something about it, but we'll really have to give up things in the real world that they might not be eager to give up. In fact, they might not be able to give up yesterday in New York state governor, Andrew Cuomo democrat said of the New York, state Senate controlled by Democrats. That they screwed up there just isn't enough time to pass their environmental agenda. The Senate couldn't get its act together to make the New York state power grid carbon neutral by twenty forty this is doable. And not in the if only we had the political will way, this really could be done. We just have to do it, and it irks me that presidential plans and talks of death sentences. Get a lot of attention. But what's lightly reported or actual plans that actual states could be actually doing to actually lessen emissions and they're not doing it? And there you have it. We are by turns not serious enough about environmental policy and on such a knife's edge of blame and recrimination, if you get any part of an imagined policy less than perfect, this is not a world, we want to live in. And if the inertia surrounding environmentalism continues, it won't be much of a world at all. And that's it for today show, Pierre Biennale may general freighter have unveiled the green chicken in every pot, giraffe. AL senior producer of slate podcast is champion of the good green five cents gar. You guys subscribe to the slate newsletter. It's at slate dot com slash gist news, you'll get some reading recommendations links to all the shows and an answer to this trivia question. It's kind of conceptual. What do baseball seventh-inning stretch and Handel's messiah having common? Oh, it's a tough one. If you get it, you'll be in the elite gold circle what seventh-inning stretch and Handel's messiah have in common. I asked George will got half of it right. Let's do the gist to be canoe and Kermit to Hooper Debra do Peru. And thanks for listening.

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How the Fairness Doctrine Worked

Stuff You Should Know

56:55 min | 1 year ago

How the Fairness Doctrine Worked

"Today's episode is brought to you by i b m what kind of tech company does the world need today when did apply smart technology at scale with a purpose an expertise not just for some but for all with eight i block chain in quantum technology were developing smart scale technologies how businesses work better together expect more from technology let's put smart to work is it i b m dot com slash smart to learn more hey everybody come see us 'cause were coming to see you specifically if you believe in chicago on july twenty fourth they're gonna be at the harris theater and the following night were gonna be at the dan fourth music hall in toronto and that's just the beginning that's rights were also going to are below the wilbur theatre which we own in boston on october twenty ninth and then are first isn't the portland maine at the state theatre on august thirtieth yet that's going to be followed in october were gonna take a little break 'cause that's a lot of touring in october the ninth were gonna be at the plaza live in orlando and then on october tenth were gonna be at the civic theatre in new orleans that's right end in october we're gonna around it all out at the bell house in brooklyn per three shows october twenty third twenty fourth and twenty fifth yet so go to s y s k live dot com for tickets and information and we will see you starting this july july in chicago welcome happy should now production of i heart radio has now playing hey welcome to the podcast i'm josh clark and there's charles w children bryant news cheer dog the road land of all time over there mrs steffi should well i got a pep it up a little bit you know so that was screwed up a little bit that's what i meant to say speaking of screwing up chicago illinois screwing up it is china think think about this like shoe which approach should we should we should we just outright lie and say like there's very few tickets left so you better go get him now now or should we shame them in say there are plenty of tickets left a disappointing amount of tickets left i think we should just be honest and not shame them okay but express are disappointment nothing works better than disappointment you know chicago we really expect it a little more from you the so if you're confused about what we're talking about probably cause you haven't heard and that's are fault about our live shows coming up all around the country to cities we've never been to before yeah yeah we've never been to orlando before never been the portland maine before that's right but we are going to chicago again 'cause we thought chicago loved us delight twentyfourth here's theater right and then toronto the next night on july twenty fifth they're buying tickets they love us up there yet the day in fourth a and then boston august twenty ninth portland maine august thirtieth orlando in new orleans october ninth and tenth amendment in brooklyn the twenty third through the twenty fifth yeah the october three night run at the bell house in brooklyn so it's gonna be great tom but again toronto you're doing great guys keep it up chicago you could stand step it up a little bit you got a little bit of time but why wait you know yeah i mean the seats are only gonna get worse true that chuck street at a so just go to s y s k live a four hour home or touring home in the web links or buddies at squarespace oh yeah and a now let's talk about the fairness doctrine okay we actually need to 'em if this were say pre nineteen eighty seven we would need to have jerry come in and say so here's all the reasons why you shouldn't buy tickets to stuff you should know live if if we were gonna follow the fairness doctrine but it's not nineteen eighty seven in as a matter of fact i wonder how podcasting would how this would apply or have applied to podcasting if it had still been around her if podcasting would have been more news things kind of grew grew up around the fairness doctrine who knows but it's a fascinating m one of those called when a when they're gonna be awesome sure there's another word for it when it's something that just can't possibly happen and kind of like speculative speculative fiction or something like that i can't remember but but you know since podcasts don't fall under the fcc the dumps it wouldn't matter oh yeah i guess it's true oh yeah we could if we want it to you right now we could say every curse word every awful thing in the world under the sun we elected not to do that everyone i heard a radio dj v other day say 'em i know you wanna chris so bad right now this is why were getting a podcast and i was like yeah i guess we could i guess we could curse but i like that we don't chuck i do too and if you wanna hear me curse just a eight you could come to a live show true true you cause that happens a little bit or be you couldn't just join me every movie crush a lot over there yeah i think at first people were like oh now i think people go listen in part to hear you curse they like the here that blue streak coming out of that you're real me oh i'd like to think that both sides of the real you put together well for roughly two and a half hours a week this is the real me do you find it difficult knocked a curse on on the show a no i mean i'm fully used to it by now yes but i i definitely am not is fully free wheeling as i normally am yeah i guess i should say i wanna give the impression that i'm like some you know flanders typer whatever i curse pretty routinely myself in regular dealer life but i guess i find it kind of comforting just knowing the thursday with a safe space where i don't see the f word a lot you should start another podcast is called filth florence fills score okay that's a pretty good idea but none of this has to do with the nineteen twenties except for the fact that people did not curse on the radio back then either because there weren't a lot of people on the radio in the nineteen twenties no actually pre or early early early nineteen twenties that is right pre november nineteen twenty there is not much going on the radio side from morse code some ham radio operators in remember we did a pretty good episode on ham radio remember correctly yeah but one of the things i remember about that ham radio episode is that there is a kind of a whole hacker anarchic eat those 'em surrounding the early days of radio you know it's it's just a total free for all you broadcasts and whatever state she wanted to and getting arguments with you know the government if you want it to who who cared there is there is not a lot of wasted trace anybody so there is a lot of anything goes mentality among the early ham radio operators but but that was basically all you would hear people saying like hey how's it going kind of thing you know maybe some heavy breathing and then in november nineteenth twentieth station called k katie k actually organized itself in the first broadcast 'em that it put out was rigging the election results from the james cock a james cox oh my gosh almost just violated violated fcc rules this dirty talk james cox a warren harding a nineteen twenty presidential election it was the first commercial license radio broadcast in in the the world i think yeah i think that's a great tribute question if someone were to say what was what city you know hosted or whatever was part of the first radio commercial radio broadcast from pittsburgh pennsylvania a in the follow would be in what did they broadcast a federal a presidential election outcome mhm which is a big deal because it's weird to think about in nineteen twenty that people all over the country were waiting for that morning paper come out except in pittsburgh they knew right they did know not everybody in pittsburgh just the people who have basically build their own radios because that was the radios that were around they were there like eight people are it's pretty much pretty much but the the fact that this happened in word spread pretty quickly yeah some people in pittsburgh news the election results because they were listening to the radio and they ran around yelling that out and we heard it on a radio and everyone's like these people lock them up yeah i and also other little known fact the first song played on the radio was radio killed the newspaper star did you just make that up and did you have that brett i just made it okay good job thinking man i'm glad got that grudging good job there is something about him in the first initial well because off the cuff that's a great joke but if you're workshop that over a few hours then not enough when's the last time i workshops and jeff i don't know you don't let me near workshop up and i know you keep it a secret so okay so here's the point this is the reason we're even talking about that first broadcast is because that was november of nineteen twenty by nineteen twenty four i think they're in in in nineteen twenty they're like twenty thousand thousand radios nineteen tony for their one and a half million radios in the united states by nineteen thirty eighty no nineteen forty eighty three percent of every household in america had radio and so so there there's this massive transition from distributing news in making sure everybody up to date on all the information they needed to be like a smart voter hold like political or social cultural opinions that transition bishen move from newspapers from print which still hung around sure but over to radio radio became much much more prevalent as far as the spread of information to increasingly large urge number of people went in the united states in a very short time in like twenty years yeah so 'em in the nineteen forties the fcc and you know there's some background all this will get to but we haven't even really he said what the fairness doctrine is yet no a finely in nineteen forty nine m the usa government said you know what we need some help here were a little bit worried that 'em jeez somebody could some private citizen citizen who's wealthy could go and buy all the radio stations in essentially propagandize the news right and there's nothing we can do about it yes so basically what they said was this there is one thing we can do about it weaken flex are muscle as the government in specifically say you broadcasters can't do that that's right v a something called the fairness doctrine which had the overall goal basically and it's it's a very kind of cute to look back at this time period but its initial goal is to make sure that all information on the on the radio waves of was good information in true and fair in enriching and there there's only so much space on the radio eighty odile so and this is this is very critical that there were limited number of frequencies available yeah it's a frequency scarcity i think yeah that that's just put a pin in that 'cause that's a very big deal is how this weighed in the favor of the fairness doctrine and then also kind of help kill it in some sure but a basically the the very progressive you the public interest outweigh private interests in the public has a right to really good information a over this free free speech at the broadcaster even yes so you just you just hit it right on the head like that is the crux of the fairness doctrine and it seems like okay depending on your viewpoint either either like the most 'em vile idea ever right or just a completely sensible idea and the reason that it kim president the same this these two totally different opinions is because this idea the fairness doctrine is sits right at the heart of the difference between the right and the left between conservativism in libertarianism in in liberalism yeah right it is it comes down to this like if you if you have to promote 'em public intercourse like people understanding not doing it in public but i mean of course discourse in public intercourse so yeah i guess doing it in public if if you're gonna promote public discourse in protected as a government saying like the like it's the role of government to say we need to make sure the quality of the information that's getting out there is protected in in that we have do that we have to limit what broadcasters can say we have to curtail free speech to people on the right like right there full stop that's a problem that's an issue it's has fatally flawed because your curtailing the free speech of somebody whether it's whether it's nbc or joe schmo who wants to say something on the radio it doesn't matter you're curtailing free speech and therefore that is wrong but the people on the list sable whoa this is this is this is a privilege to broadcast on the radio in in order to protect the large republican its interests we have to curtail that free speech is a very narrowed money monied interests that can't afford a license to broadcast and and there's no way to reconcile the two you can't it you have to choose a side form an opinion one way or the other end whatever you choose is your our larger view of whether you're a liberal her whether you're conservative yeah pretty much i mean it fell along those lines back then instilled us today mhm even though the fairness doctrine isn't around the ideology is well it keeps getting getting a broad out kind of you know 'em for so long a a an angry parade rout in in order to kind of say like look look look what the government's capable of doing the reach they really wanna do don't let them do it again with aks right you know skoda's it's a huge flashpoint in it's understandable why it seems like so 'em kinda limping bureaucratic in boring but when you dig into the history of the whole thing and even the the contemporary idea behind it it's a huge flashpoint politically in the united states yeah so it had a couple of main components and then within that a couple of big big rules a very important rules on the first the components were 'em they were known to put together is the fairness role which is private broadcasters must report on my about matters of public interest like it's a responsibility of you as a broadcaster and it's right in private broadcasters must cover opposing perspective regarding putting that public interest a big one that's a big one and then the the the little rules there the personal attack rule said that if you're a broadcaster and you are gonna run a negative story 'em on somebody or something prior to that you'd have to let these people know or this organization now and give them time to respond on there and then the politically editorial rule which is private broadcasters the air editorial programming that endorses a politically canada it must inform other candidates and offered them time to respond on air a not to be confused with equal time rule that's very different equal time rule this is why debates have are supposed to have all canada it's because you're supposed to if you give one canada time airtime to say hey here's my platform you're supposed to give all other kennett it's an equal amount of time in that that politically editorial real kind of it's close to it and it follows in the same tradition in principle but really the personal attack rule in the politically editorial ruled that were part of the fairness doctrine that's just like the foundation of of good journalism basically it was not they're not radical ideas that's a good point so the idea though that that public or private broadcasters have to talk about issues and then have to air opposing viewpoints that is that is kind of controversial because it's saying like heat we we the government are saying you have to do this this is your responsibility and the idea that the government even has control over airways is is in dispute but it actually dates pretty far back in will talk about the background the backstory behind the fairness doctrine after a message how about that sounds good hey everybody it's time to talk to you about one of our favorite things just shoving her mouth smart food popcorn yeah i mean everyone already knows about smart food white cheddar and how delicious that is yeah but did you know they have a huge lineup of other flavors yeah dude specifically i'm quite looking forward to the hot buffalo which is a brand new flavor but if you can imagine how awesome smart food white cheddar is imagine buffalo flavor of that awesomeness level yet well i'm a white cheddar guy myself it's equal parts cheesy and delicious truly one of my favorite snack just air popped has no artificial colors flavors it's gluten free and the best part for me fourteen grams of whole grains per serving yep so the next time europe these store trickles murphy popcorn not just the bomb world shorter but the bomb other flavors coming to okay chuck so they're the one thing that really understand what we're talking about here there initially we were talking about radio waves and then eventually tv ways and then eventually turned into the internet but all these things especially something like air airwaves free radio and tv these exists naturally right yeah there's not like a government factory that produces radio waves the government can't say well we we produce these so we condemn ma i think man that's a it's it's an artificial idea that the government can say we regulate these airwaves because its citizens listening to the stuff that's broadcast on the airwaves and it's private companies broadcasting on the airways using equipment that's manufactured by other private companies so the government is insinuating itself and saying well this is too important to leave to the market we have to regulate this in some some ways and were going to do that and the whole thing actually started with the titanic tell you the truth the titanic ship the titanic ship very one show that's right a leading up to the titanic radio is is being used in up quite a bit in maritime communication a in fact we even past the ship act of nineteen ten which required ships leaving united states that have radio equipment and the know how to use it a in sort of laid out some basic broadcasting standards right but what they didn't do was say all right we're gonna sign radio frequencies 'em and were gonna like a reserve a channel for emergencies only a this kind of stunned them because couple years after that a little boat called aram es titanic ship the titanic it wasn't a little boat they ocean liner sure i used to know the difference between ocean liner and a cruise ship i think ocean liners transit clinic is that is that the deal i've never heard the difference i think that this is one of the most famous i'm not thinking ocean liner specifically cross the two different continents i got yeah i guess a cruise ship could just hugged the coast through something like this but i might be making all that up i guess so a the the titanic sank there's a lot of radio traffic going on as the disaster breaks out obviously so even though this a in newfoundland they they heard very early on and picked up this distress call they couldn't really get it out because everything's all clogged up yeah there were a lot of ham radio operators screwing things up at the time that's right and that's what prompted the radioactive act of nineteen twelve which was sort of the beginnings of the foundation of what would eventually become the fairness doctrine a because what it did was it established spectrum allegation and the fcc basically said hey listen if you wanna broadcasts you can't just broadcast you gotta come to us in get a license yeah initially it was the commerce department that was that was issuing licenses yeah and then came the radioactive nineteen twenty seven that formed the radio commission and they started handling licenses but not only did they start saying okay you're a broadcaster here's her license this is the frequency that you can broadcast on prior to that that was around in the radioactive as the commerce department they did that but but there is no way to police it in so if you were say nbc radio an the there were a bunch of people broadcasting on your frequency at seven pm you just talk to you yeah well no you just switch to a different frequency insert broadcasting seeing and so there's no way the police it well what the radio act of nineteen twenty seven immigration is radio commission there was a way the police because you could have your license revoked and if you kept broadcasting guys would come to your house and kidnap you're family yeah but the really important thing in this is how it not you're family right the really important thing was it establish what we talked about before which is spectrum scarcity right there's only so much space now if everyone has to apply for license he wants to broadcast 'em it's just it's it was very key in in the set up and then like i said eventual downfall of the fairness doctrine yeah because it's says this like okay here's the full here's the full spectrum these radio spectrum that we can broadcast on 'em and we're going to carve it up in each person gets a specific frequency the broadcast on that that means that there's a finite number of frequencies so there's a finite number of licenses which means that not not everybody can have eight eight license to broadcast which means that that the people who do have that licensor broadcast heavy very important privilege afford to them and because it's a privilege because because the government is insinuated itself and said were doling out these privileges we decided we the government have decided that that you have a responsibility to prove prove resent fair and balanced reporting to the government to the public including basically all sides of an issue like you have the responsibility that supersedes your right to free speech is a broadcaster that was that's what spectrum scarcity created right a this the nineteen twenty seven radio act 'em while it did establish that it kind of made some errors a basically and how they set it up there were a lot of misspelling beer there were a lot of misspellings but they would say basically to the broadcasters there's you have the air content in support of quote public convenience interest or necessity in quote right but they didn't really define what that was which by the way i looked it up as like what does public convenience mean apparently uk it means a public toilet in see only definition i could ever find for somebody just made that up you know air content about public toilets right another thing right actually liked that part from naked gun it's just nothing but the sounds of people peeing 'em but this is a big problem because if something is clearly defined then it can't be a they can't be enforced right now so in nineteen thirty four they knew that this is the problem a this was a how many years later like seven years later and they said you know what we need to issue another act 'cause where the federal government right and so the federal communications act replace the radio act the fcc was born replace the radio commission and the fcc said all right the the first thing we gotta do is defined what this public interest thing is all about right because not only does it make it difficult to enforce it makes it difficult to follow sillage earned if you're a broadcast and you're like i totally agree with this i do have a right and responsibility a what's this public public convenient again like how do i do this what am i supposed to be doing like i don't know if it's not define yeah you can't enforce it you also can't follow it if you wanna follow it so there is just too much gray area so the fcc 'em when this was created this idea of okay we're gonna set about creek like defining this stuff and really generating this idea of what it means to be a responsible broadcaster happened at a really liberal time in american history right after the new deal we'll head really kinda come along in in changed the collection of america pretty dramatically and liberalism progressivism had really set in in in trenched in the fabric of american politics and so there is this idea that the best way to prevent broadcasters from from asserting an overbearing influence on public discourse because they had the loudest voice because they had the radio licenses let's just say you guys can't editorialize at all and this became known as the mayflower decision of the mayflower doctrine it was a nineteen forty one fcc ruling that basically said you know what you guys you guys have to basically be neutral in that you can't you can't say anything you can't presented any particular side if we find out that you guys were promoting say d a policy agenda the or the favorite politics of like you're station owner you're parent company or something like that and you you're in trouble and that was kind of like thee the the line that they drew no editorializing whatsoever that's right and that that really sort of laid the groundwork in a big big way for the fairness doctrine even though the fairness doctrine sort of undid that you did and said well you you know you can't editorialize but you just have to do it on both sides right you have to prove that proves that prevent president both sides and like so on the one hand that was a gift to the to the broadcasters right they were saying okay you can you can you jerome voice you state your own opinion you can support your own politically canada but you have to give airtime to the other political candidate you have they give airtime to people with an opposing view of what you just said it was kind of like a compromise but it was also a weakening of the progressive agenda i guess yeah and the broadcasters did not like it for sure because again they were still sort of confused about what what is public importance mean we were not even sure you know everything's decided in applied on a case by case basis in other words it yeah that's a big one yeah in other words if somebody be a just files a complaint basically they will take up that complaint in here that complaint but it wasn't like some like big sweeping thing no but it was also chucked it so that that means that it's it's a pre shifts in arbitrary cherry basically applying the rule on a case by case basis rather than a sweeping regulation but it's also weakness because it means that the fcc saying will leave it to you the broadcasters to police yourselves were only gonna act when somebody complains yeah so what happened in a lot of cases was some radio stations where like you know what i'm not even gonna go there and i'm gonna void controversy at all you know altogether because we pointed out a it wasn't just about politics it it was basically covered controversial issues in general lying and this will play a big part like everything from a climate denial to the anti vaccine movement in the nineteen eighties like they all had to have equal time under the fairness doctrine and and a lot of people point to the fairness doctrine as like how these movements got jumpstarted to begin with because they didn't put those opinions and contacts they were just like you know they didn't say this is very scientifically valid and now here's de opposing viewpoint which has no science to back it up right exactly and that was the fact that they didn't do that they were airing on the side of caution 'em over editorializing but also probably they were trying to make sure that everybody was not offended they didn't offend either side because they didn't wanna be boycotted the advertising to or find sure yeah so that was a big problem with the fairness doctrine is that it was ill defined find it was open the door for opposing viewpoints that that that put them on equal footing are equal ground right with with some other viewpoints that were see scientifically backed which created what's called the false balance problem and then there is opposition to to basically be to the the fairness doctrine from from the outset not just the broadcasters who thought they didn't want any kind of restriction on their speech but also so interestingly 'em it represented in a loophole to combat advertising to which i think the fcc hadn't thought of but they said yeah the sexually applies when it when it came up there is a ruling in nineteen sixty seven that found that cigarette advertising 'em qualified as they 'em but the presentation of one viewpoint of a controversial subject basically cigarette smoking is great go go smokes cigarettes and so some consumer groups a partition the fcc and say hey we should be able to give opposing viewpoint don't smoke cigarettes is bad for you and the fcc said you're absolutely right an advertisers like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa this is a big deal and now they jumped in the backup the national association of broadcasters which is opposed the fairness doctrine in general yeah ended also you know that kind of thing is advertising count said opens his doors and it did for you know like a and will will get to this more specifically later but like if a power company wanna do an ad about a great new nuclear power plant did they were gonna build like a liberal group can come forward and say no no like that's not an ad 'em i know they're paying for airspace but that means we need to talk about the ills of nuclear power right right i mean even if it wasn't at the the the opposing group could say we get free airtime to raise it this is the opposite of that and so if you're a broadcaster especially if you're in a like a successful market that you know fifteen thirty sixty seconds spot is important you don't wanna give that away but it may also you may have like an interest in whatever the other group is protest thing so just on that in that respect as well you don't really wanna airworthy opposing view the problem with the fairness doctrine if you're libertarian conservative is that it said you have to do that you have to air this opposing you the fcc says though that's right so you gotta think is gonna end up in court at some point sure it did a quite a quite a few times over the years not surprisingly a in for about a twenty eight a thirty year period you escorts basically supported the fcc a in fulfilling this mandate 'em there were some some real highlights in nineteen sixty nine there were a couple of big court rulings a debt affirmed this and for a enforcement one was red lion broadcasting testing company incorporated be fcc the little mouthy it is so this one is sort of a two cases in one 'em the supreme court is able to kill two birds one case wasn't fcc appeal of a lower court ruling i said this you know the personal attack and politically editorial rules is too big rules were unconstitutional and the second was a broadcaster appealing of a lower court ruling that said the fcc's application of those rules was constitutional so right all right you guys let's just combined into one thing and will hear the case a in in the the ladder when there was a investigative journalist named fred jay cooke and he filed a complaint and like we said it's case by case stuff so this complaint made it all the way to the supreme court fred cook filed a complaint against redline broadcasting who owned a w cg be because they had a broadcast with the reverend billy james harden us they claim they cook who is an author and wrote a very a kind of salacious expos they about the f b i and this this reverend said you know what this author worked with the communist and he attacked j edgar hoover man we it turns out they didn't contact cook to give him that equal chance to respond and they denied him his demand for that right and it made it all the way to the supreme court and the supreme court said you know what redline you're wrong you gotta do this right so i i since the supreme court court ruled that the cook could have equal airtime this is like twelve years nine years later and i could not find anywhere if you actually took him up on it or not but the whole thing was just like a it was an ad hominem attack and attack on him him on cook because cookie had written a book against barry goldwater who was a presidential candidate at the time and the people who ran red lion didn't like it so they attack cook but he so they in this ruling though and this is the whole point not not that cook got his timers airtime but that the the supreme court ruled that the fcc applying this fairness doctrine was good in find an unconstitutional constitutional big deal they ruled the fcc could constitutionally 'em exercise is fairness doctrine which is just enormous yeah it was a very very big deal yeah a lot of other big kind of landmark case with that same year 'em the office of communication of the united church of christ at all v fcc another scintillating title right a those usa appeals court to overturn the fcc's decision not to consider a petition to revoke the license of lamar broadcasting a w l b t the distance got together a civil rights groups and they were like you know what this station is awful they are first of all they're not covering covering 'em the civil rights movement and they're flat out racist in segregationist right answer were gonna petition this in the fcc denied the petition a nineteen sixty four and said citizens don't have the standing to file a petition like this which is pretty surprising because you know the citizens of the ones the fcc of always been like fighting for right it was a little bomb hanky panky is the work that we do so the petitioners appealed and in nineteen sixty six a yes sixty six the the court of appeals for the dc said you do have standing to petition the fcc to revoke a license right because that's all about protecting the public interest which is what the fcc is supposed to be doing in the first place to get back to work and finally in nineteen sixty seven the fcc revisited that petition rejected it again write a because they said hey this station is actually kind of taking some steps since then and we think they're doing the right thing petitioner still were unhappy they appeal that in nineteen sixty nine the fcc actually revoked lamar broadcasting's license they did as far as as far as i could tell lamar broadcasting would be one in only company to lose their licence under the fairness doctrine permanently right 'em they never got it back dan chuck a little cherry on top because lamar broadcasting lost the license of w o b t in jackson mississippi is up for grabs in it was taken by eight majority black owned group that that took over the station at that point nice nice yeah so 'em things seemed to be going smoothly for the fairness doctrine what could go wrong well will tell you what could go wrong after a break break how about that let's talk about sexual performance issues josh let's yeah man is more common than you think like over twentyfive percent of new e d cases are guys under forty years old in forty percent of men by age forty struggle from not being able to get an maintain that erection yes well luckily there's something called four hymns dot com a one stop shop not just for sexual wellness but also for hair loss skin care all ferment you're going to talk to real doctors and get medical grade solutions to treat erectile dysfunction well known generic equivalents to name brand prescriptions to help you combat eighty no snake oil pills or anything that you get from a gas station it's real prescription solutions backed by science yemen yeah man no waiting room no awkward in person visits it's so easy just answer a few quick questions chat with the doctor for confidential review and then products are shipped directly to your door it's a reptile without the dysfunction for just five bucks bucks will get you started for just five dollars while supplies last restrictions may apply so see the website for full details this would cost hundreds if you went to the doctor or pharmacy go to four hymns f o r h i m s dot com slash stuff the press t u f f e d that's four hymns dot com slash s t u r e d o okay chuck so one thing that i've learned is it's not necessarily like the supreme court is their decisions or or final forever they kinda shift in move overtime over long periods of time and the fairness doctrine is a really good example of that because in the sixties the supreme court ruled pretty clearly the fcc was constitutional but by the end of the seventies the supreme court started to side with broadcasters instead the winds of change kind of blew through there and there was one case in particular that the supreme court heard in nineteen seventy nine that 'em signaled they aim real real change for 'em the fairness doctrine in the fcc applying it it was a case that involved wj i am tv in lansing michigan which is owned by guy named herro gross yeah so a complaint here was that he or the station rather the v a heroin heroin gross it abused another broadcasting power to the detriment of the public so what he did was he denied airtime to political rivals 'em in some cases and other cases he censored a coverage of local businesses they didn't advertise with him yeah he was he was accused of clipping which is taking like when a when a network delivers the show has commercial breaks in it he would have is editors go through and add add even more commercial break now you're not supposed to do 'em does a big on didn't covered the jimmy hoffa disappearance because he didn't like jimmy hoffa's politics even though is a national andel local story yeah so in nineteen seventy five a a hearing by the fcc dc said you know you buy you violated the fairness roads were taken you're license buddy a but he appealed it in this time a he won they appeal and like you said this is a big shift in the way things were being thought about as far as the fairness doctrine tournament 'em eight one one more thing about herald gross before we move on this guy he was such a businessman that when he started his tv station in nineteen fifty wj i am he was actually one of the first hundred and eight license holders there's the broadcast on tv but he wasn't sure that tv with gonna stick around that if it's gonna take off as a technology so he built the w j i m facilities so that it could be converted into a motel if tv go anywhere so he original original date wj i am a tv station had a pool outback what is it now you know what is what the pool i don't know i looked up to see if there is anything 'em recent about it and i didn't find any any new stuff but i i click i saw a picture of the station and there's definitely a pullout back from back in the fifties kind of a nice perk i guess so i wonder if he let anybody swimming in now maybe if you advertise he would've let you so this was a mid to late seventies and then things really really started changing in the nineteen eighties because a that whole thing about when remember when i said putting a pin in a spectrum scarcity mhm that was no longer a problem a by the mid nineteen eighties there were more than ten thousand radio stations thirteen hundred tv stations a about seventeen hundred newspapers in the whole sort of drumbeat was like a wait a minute there's not a problem here anymore with scarcity we should be able do we want 'cause you told newspapers from the very beginning their free speech was a protected and they could do whatever they want where we any different yeah that's that's a really big point that a lot of people pointing to over years is why did this just apply to electronic media like the the print media literally has an editorial page where they come out with positions on canot it's and all this stuff why doesn't it apply them in for years and years and years there was any smoke in basically go get a newspaper printed radios different because of that spectrum scarcity but yeah the the satellite people came along and his cable came along that just kind of went out the door so spectrum scarcity going away in the fact that they newspaper industry the print media was not regulated anywhere near the same way really kind of removed any remaining foundation for for the fairness doctrine due to stand on yeah so in nineteen eighty five the fcc a kind of got their gears turning and said you know what we think this is a we want congress to review this basically were gonna institute a public comment period period even and a we think we should abandon the the personal attack rule and in this case by case thing right yeah and they did this for like two years in while the fcc's holding like these public hearings on it congress congress at the same time were saying well we don't really want the fairness doctrine go away and not just the left there is a bipartisan support a bill that got passed in congress to codify the fairness doctrine but it was vetoed by reagan and so after that that was basically at the fairness doctrine yeah the fcc voted unanimously to just get rid of it they did end so they didn't actually get rid of it they just stopped enforcing there's some parts of it they kept enforcing i think these personal attack politically editorial provisions up until like two thousand four like another thirteen years but the idea that you had to promote opposing viewpoints yeah on your you're television station radio station that went away starting in nineteen eighty seven and a lot of people say that really changed thee american media landscape big time yeah i mean it you know depending on who you are innocent begging what i know i'm trying the dance around this depending on who you are you probably have a very very strong opinion about the fairness doctrine one ready other right or you may think it was a mixed thing is definitely a flawed policy i think everyone agrees that it wasn't perfect a but the legacy is really complex 'em it you know getting rid of it basically open the door for a what we have today which is a a degraded new standard 'em minority viewpoints that aren't necessarily covered a in how polarized we are because you know people dug again and they said all right i'm gonna start my super conservative radio stations and then people set are gonna start my super conservative liberal a website in in radio shows and in liberals gonna listen to there's in conservatives listen there's in the tween she'll meet right right in so especially if you have like each side promoting a a viewpoint earning genda 'em to the detriment of the other side there's there's like the middle ground is lost which i mean some people i know some people are very hip on centrism these days anyway but i mean you could keep a pretty decent size society together when you when you go kind follow a centrist access upward in onwards you know and i think the to me the fairness doctrine showed that i mean like i i don't think it's a big surprise where i fall on whether the fairness doctrine is a good idea or not but i i i just don't think it's 'em like i can see saying all these people out here need good information and it's probably not going to just get out there on its own if if we the government don't step in and say here's how we need to get good information out in i think the current media landscape is just complete proof positive of that but if you just if you just let it all go free for all then then you end up with what we half that this is what the market offers firs us chamber of echo chambers polarization and the huge the division in the country with without anybody saying well wait wait wait yes over here you guys are right over here you guys are right in in things things are really messed up but also what about this other stuff we kind of all agree on this part and what about this part yeah we have a lot of common ground here no one's talking about that and that used to be the role that the media played before yeah i mean one thing we can say without the fairness doctrine trend 'em we may not have gotten any of these majority viewpoints in the nineteen forties and fifties and sixties right people might not have been as well informed except maybe be a newspaper about the civil rights movement women's rights movement 'em how bad smoking is a about nuclear power plants like all of these things were sort of in the shadows or now now had a a a guaranteed platform right 'em but like we mentioned earlier because they didn't really a they had to give these opposing viewpoints you also could have possibly born the anti vaccine movement any in the climate denial movement and stuff like that so it was flawed to be sure sure yeah you there's from what i understand like any democrat to the right of ralph nader which is almost everybody says yes fairness doctrine what a terrible idea terrible idea it was officially repealed in two thousand eleven and if you'll think back that wasn't under the obama administration so obama administration's fcc was the one that officially took the fairness doctrine off the books removed it yeah but i mean that was a purge that was just like there's a bunch of rotten food in the fridge and why is no one thrown it out yet yeah but it was also pretty symbolic you know it was a it was a symbolic act whether they intended it or not but but the idea that 'em that it was it was removed by a democratic lefty president's administration is it's i dunno it saying something i think yeah a here's where we are today though there was a poll a gallup poll and just last year in two thousand eighteen found americans i don't trust the news a day guest a let me see sixty two percent of what they hear is biased a forty four percent is inaccurate and thirty nine percent as misinformation that's a those numbers seem low to me that's not a great place to be in as a country though no it's a terrible place it's a scary place like how is this country still together you know yeah but in in the other thing is we're gonna get so much stuff because we didn't come out and just stay completely down the middle but i mean i wanna say like i understand where where people on the right are coming from what this like ideologically this is censorship end 'em thee prohibition of the exercise of free speech in that that is one of that do they i corps for 'em founding value of conservativism in libertarianism so like i can't understand how you look at the fairness doctrine it'd be like this is government overreach and its worst in its worst examples you know yeah but it's like it wasn't it wasn't like state run radio you know no it wasn't like the government the federal government propagandizing their agenda right a but yeah we were saying like hey you can say this viewpoint right also have to show these other viewpoint to me that's almost impossible argue it yeah and i think the newspapers of of a high standing still on their editorial page kind of print the two opposing opinion side by side yeah that's what op ed stands for is opposite the editorial page so the editorial page will be the the newspapers opinion their editorial board and then only literal opposite paid izzy basically they opposing opinion of that yeah it's just a high journalistic standard right but this is the government saying this newspapers do this on their own i guess just out of tradition 'em whereas electronic media is a little more wild west season that that's right so here we are today a pretty interesting times we're living in it all because the fairness doctrine went away anyway thanks for listening to this episode stuff you should know more about the fairness doctrine just go outside and see how you like being a instance i said that temper listener mail i'm gonna call this the sound of our voices are i'm sorry let me say this the color over voices oh yeah i know what my voice color just is good impact years isn't even there's more of a feel thing okay so hey guys i listened to the episode on 'perfect pitch you mentioned the state's dropping good candidates were having 'perfect pitch i fall into the category of being someone who possesses both been serious about my musicianship addition ship since my earliest recollections of my and that's when i began vol in voluntarily hearing all these individual musical notes in their own unique on changing colors for example the sound of the note f a i should have brought in dude i bought one of those little what he called a pitch pipe about pitch by wide into bringing in should have brought it in the window harmonica i should've brought to you and i'm gonna buy when i would love it can you have an engraved to just sure okay 'em so the sound of f for allison has never not caused a rush of the color orange sweep over her from it but i also hear people's individual voices in colors a what's unique about voices to me they're incredibly textured ended ended up themselves mhm you guys have voice colors and textures i love mine remind josh's place anytime i hear it sounds like swayed if wade wade could make it sound painted did medium dark brown with a tiny hands at easter egg purple material that is a lovely combo if you ask me a trucks voice on the other hand has zero funds to it at all a checked choices merryman very metallic almost shimmery like you're gazing upon a deep blue green body of water and you could see straight to the bottom night that's a nice voice right there junk these are both great voices yeah very happy that i mean who knows what what could have come out of this email ears smells like a few and you're sounds like nails on a job board and i've come to find out the no to voice colors you're exactly the same kind of like gum princeton snowflakes a person's voice colored is not morphed into something else either they suddenly start speaking another language and and it also has nothing to do with his or her particular a personality type so they're not saying you're smooth like swayed on like as a first oh yes clearly but i think the only person should a point of the matter i delighting hearing both of your voices nearly every day's a tune into the show it's become a staple in my daily existence keep on being wonderful a that is from allison who is that are salt lake city show all she interacted with this from the crowd that's great thank you for interacting with allison and we appreciate it's illegal shows but i think i asked the question she answered it it's against the rules what they say well thanks del says one of the more interesting emails we've ever seen frankly a if you wanna be like allison in and go to one of our live shows you will never regret it first single moment in your entire life go to s y s k live dot com and get tickets especially chicago end if you wanna get in touch with us like allison did to you can go onto our website stuff you should know dot com follow are social links there or you can send us an email send it off to stuff podcast at i heart radio dot com stuff you should know it's production i heart radio somewhat podcast my heart radio is it the iheartradio app apple 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S2 E10: Discovery

In The Dark

1:04:29 hr | 2 years ago

S2 E10: Discovery

"Previously on in the dark. Dukes postal Doda. Please. Okay. We didn't find a tennis shoes, we've found a tennis shoe box. The evidence was there. You just had set down. Listen to it with open mind and then come back. When you everyone basically nose the guy's guilty. How much more evidence do you need? So do you. Remember like telling them like Curtis feel. I did not say it. I did not say it knew about shoes. No murder. No, Nikki nurse. I'm wearing like or anything. So are you confident that you have the right person that Curtis flowers is guilty. We'll answer. Definitely no question. All. One day a few months ago and went to see a man named Kenny Townsend. He was a police officer in my no back in nineteen ninety six. He was one of the first people on the scene at tardy furniture on the morning of murders. Kennedy Townsend told me that when he showed up at tardy furniture. The only person there was a police chief, do you might women. This the real, you know. You know, that's what he side. Won't on toddy casually. Like normally do and draw your gun three what? And that's about. It can Townsend was in the store just minutes after the nine one one call he saw the crime scene before anyone had an idea of who had committed the murders. He told me he searched the store and he stayed at tardy furniture for several hours that day. Did you like do anything other than that day or how vulgar you? The report I'd never seen this report. In fact, I'd never seen any police report for the murders Atari furniture. There just wasn't one in the file that the DA. Doug Evans had turned over to Curtis. Flowers. Lawyers. Haven't seen a report we're gonna get it. Okay. So you ought to report that day though. What a report it. Okay. But you'd definitely wrote her. Okay. Kennedy Townsend told me that once he wrote that report it would have gone in a folder about the tardy furniture case as what happened to it. After that. He said he has no idea. Kenny towns and left the police force about ten years ago. Over the course of six trials and twenty one years, the DA Doug Evans has told the court that every last piece of paper everything he has the entire investigative file has been turned over to the defense. But what can eat house was telling me was it that wasn't correct? Because he'd written a report, and it wasn't in the file. And what it would come to? Discover after a year for porting was it. There was a lot more missing from the investigative file than just a police report. This season two of in the dark and investigative podcast. From APM reports, I'm Madeline baron. This season is about the case of Curtis flowers a black man from a small town in Mississippi spent the past twenty one years fighting for his life and a white prosecutor spend that same time trying just as hard to execute. Certain things were missing from the investigative file in the case of Curtis flowers. And the reason this matters is because there are rules about this. There's certain evidence that prosecutor is required to turn over to a defendant before a criminal trial as part of what's called the discovery process and one of the most important kinds of evidence that a prosecutor must turn over to the defense is any evidence that would be favorable to the defense like any evidence that would make jury think the defendant didn't do it or any evidence that a witness is lying that kind of information is called Brady material. The term comes from a famous US supreme court decision called Brady versus Maryland. And not following this rule not turning over Brady. Material is a big deal. If the defense finds out that the prosecutor withheld Brady material. It can lead a court to overturn the verdict. It can lead to someone going free to the court. It doesn't matter whether the prosecutor did it intentionally or whether the prosecutor didn't know that. There was something in a police file somewhere that needed to be turned over. It's not turned over. That's a Brady violation. We talked about this with a former prosecutor who's now a law professor at pace university. His name is Bennett. Gershman Bennett Gershman said prosecutor should want to turn over evidence to the defense. Even when it makes it harder for the prosecutor to get a conviction because being a prosecutor isn't supposed to be about winning. It's actually supposed to be about seeking Justice. You wanna play by the rules? You want to do the right thing. The constitutional ethical rules require you to do this. You're person of integrity. Integrity means you do the right thing when nobody's looking. And so, you know, a prosecutor decided to be a press acute knows that he or she is going to exercise enormous power. And with that power comes these responsibilities to make sure that the defendant gets a fair trial. There's no one from the court who goes to the DA's office and searches through all the files to make sure that every last piece of Brady material has been turned over instead the court's just rely on the prosecutor to do the right thing and turnover Brady material basically operates on the honor system. But some prosecutors have been caught not following this rule. And DA. Doug Evans is one of them. It happened in a case. Doug Evans, brought against a black man named Bobby. Joe townsend. Hello. Are you Bobby Joe, I'm Parker Niagara meet you last fall reporter Parker. We're not to meet Bobby Joe Townsend in maybe Mississippi about forty minutes from my Nana, Bobby Joe's wife era joined him for the interview back in nineteen ninety eight Bobby Joe and VERA had five children and Bobby Joe is working at a nursing home as a housekeeper he'd have the job for almost twenty years. But then one day he was arrested and accused of raping an eight year old white woman who was a patient at the nursing home mixed thing. They was taking me to to the jailhouse tenement Jindo. You did want you admitted Hugh deeded thin that I raped Emphan quoting in the world. Audie talking about. DA Doug Evans, brought Bobby Joe Townsend to trial on a charge of sexual battery the trial happened just two months before Doug Evans, brought Curtis flowers to trial for a second time. There wasn't much evidence against Bobby Joe Townsend the woman he was accused of raping had severe dementia. She didn't remember being raped and she didn't testify at trial. Doug Evans, case relied on the testimony of a black woman who said she'd witnessed the alleged rape. Her name was Lucy. O'bryant Lucy told the jurors that she'd walked in on Bobby Joe Townsend raping the elderly patient in her bed that sounded like solid evidence. Because Lucy was saying that she witnessed the crime. She was right there. But Lucy told the jurors she did next was quite odd. She testified that rather than run down the hall and teller supervisor or call the police she just told Bobby Joe, quote, you know, better and that Bobby Joe, then stopped. And left the room without saying a word Lucy testified that the next thing. She did was she quote went to the bathroom and got a towel and cleaned her up. And then Lucy finished her shift and left. She said she waited two days before reporting the alleged rape to police Lucy told the jurors the reason for the delay because she was trying to find specific cop. She knew but he wasn't around. So she just waited until she could find him at trial. Bobby Joe towns and testified that he didn't know why Lucy had accused him. But he said, quote, I know one thing she don't care too much for me. We wanted to ask Lucille Brian about this. But we weren't able to reach her. There were some attempts to get friends evidence. In the case the woman, Bobby Joe was accused of raping have been taken to the hospital after Lucy reported it and had evidence collected as part of a rape kit to see if Bobby Joe's DNA was there. Or if there was any other evidence. That she'd been raped at the time of the trial. According to the case that the DA Doug Evans put before the jurors. It wasn't known whether the rape kit had found anything a state highway patrol investigator named Stanley Sisk who testified as a witness for the prosecution told the jury that he hadn't gotten the results back yet. So he didn't know what it had found. The jury took less than two hours to convict Bobby Joe Townsend of sexual battery. The judge Clarence Morgan the same judge who presided over the earlier flowers trial sentenced Bobby Joe Townsend to thirty years in prison. Bobby Joe and his wife era and their young children were given a few minutes after the sentence to say goodbye before Bobby Joe was taken away they made him in a room. They let the hit handcuffed in. He told me he said, I'm going to prove for something. I did not do. He said I you going to take care of the kids in a year. I said they can be okay. So I'll most worried about Hannah head broke down in crat. He was crying. It happened. So fast and quick. And next thing. I'm the one main handballs put me in conclusion for life thirty year, you my life down ever tank out and work for gnome alive. And this happened to me. Body. Joe probably would have stayed in prison for decades where not for the actions of Bobby Joe's new attorney because this new attorney questioned whether Doug Evans office actually had turned over all the Brady evidence. In the case like it was supposed to the new lawyer was a man named rob mcduff, just a note here. APM reports hired rob macduff trip resent us and making requests for public records and Mississippi. Well, started looking at the evidence that was presented at the trial where he was convicted. And I was surprised to see that. There was no evidence from the crime lab. No evidence from examination of the right kit that is routinely taken in sexual assault cases. No evidence from the examination of the woman in the. Hospital when she was taken there after this rate was reported, and those are things that you normally see in rape cases. So it's very surprised by that radnich deaf. Subpoenaed the Mississippi crime lab, and he found out that the rape kit actually had been tested and the results had come back negative negative for any evidence of rape negative for any evidence of Bobby Joe Townsend, and rob macduff also found that a doctor and a nurse who examined the elderly woman had also written reports that said that they had found no evidence of any kind of injuries to the woman that you would expect to find a case like this. They found no evidence of rape. And rob macduff found that the investigator who testified under oath knew all of this one of the items at the crime lab turned over to macduff was a phone log, and that log showed that the investigator who testified at trial that he didn't know whether the. Rape kit had been tested actually had been told on the phone directly from person at the crime lab that the kit had been tested and the results were negative. None of that had been disclosed to Bobby Joe town's lawyer before trial once I saw all of this evidence. And once the pathologist that I hired reviewed it and concluded that no crime ever occurred. Fouled a motion to vacate Mr. Townsend's conviction and give him a new trial. So that a jury could hear all of the including this evidence. This story evidence demonstrated that. That nothing had happened. And this man was not guilty after macduff proved to the judge that the DA's office had not turned over this information to the defense this Brady material the judge overturned, Bobby Joe Townsend's conviction. That's how big of a deal. It is defined Brady violation. Doug Evans, decided to try the case again only this time. The jury heard all the evidence that Doug Evans office hadn't turned over in the first trial. And this new Jerry found Bobby Joe Townsend, not guilty. And he was a free, man. Joe Townsend spent a year and eight months of his life behind bars away from his family convinced he was going to spend basically the rest of his life in prison. It took something from him. You know, he used to be a happy go person. He always played with the keys in laughed and joked in after that, he just got quiet. He just he just a totally different person. He's not they're saying to your happy person. It took his life from hand. Sometime. I try to forget that it doesn't happen. But some Pam I can be landing bed. Sometimes I really do. Really do happen to you know, what I went to. Good. I'm still around. After Bobby Townsend got out of prison state of Mississippi paid them eighty three thousand dollars from a state fund for people who've been wrongfully convicted and imprisoned. But no one in the DA's office was punished or sanctioned in any way. And so even though the court had found Doug Evans office, withheld evidence Evans was allowed to keep trying cases. Even death penalty cases like the one against Curtis flowers. We're once again, Doug Evans would be on the honor system. The case of Curtis flowers, the DA Doug Evans has said that he's turned over everything to the defense. The entire investigative file, and that file was almost entirely about Curtis almost every document almost every interview had to do with Curtis. Those were all the documents at read through the ones that were about people who might have seen Curtis flowers wearing feel Grant Hill shoes people who claim to have seen Curtis walking around town the morning of the murders the tests from the crime lab that the DA would later use to try to connect Curtis with the possible murder weapon almost everything pointed to cardis. As I look through all these documents. There was this one piece of paper that didn't seem to fit this one mysterious page. It was from five days after the murders. It was a form that someone had signed at the white known a police department. It was a form waving this person's maranda rights saying person understood that he had a right to an attorney. He had the right Tremaine silent. And that everything he said could be used against him. This form is a form the cops us when they're interrogating a suspect. The only person in the file could sign one of those forms was Curtis flowers, and there were notes from this interview transcripts no reports. Nothing just one piece of paper. Right. When I saw it. I knew it could be important. I made a copy of it. And I wrote on it who is this person and circle question. It can highlighter. I would end up spending a year trying to find this person trying to understand. But this one piece of paper meant. That's after the break. If you enjoy this show checkout believed, a new podcast about the women who brought down Dr Larry Nassar. He abused hundreds of women and girls, including many gymnasts for more than twenty years, the hosts Kate wells and Lindsay Smith show, you how it happened believed. A new limited run podcast from Michigan radio and NPR. Subscribe now at apple podcasts or ever you. Get your podcasts. This piece of paper, but the DA Doug Evans had turned over to. Cardis says lawyers didn't have much information on it. It was a form for an interrogation to state. Investigators had signed it saying that the person being questioned had been informed of his Miranda rights. The form had been signed in the wino- police department on July twenty first nineteen Ninety-six at eleven twenty in the morning. And the person who signed the form waiving his rights was a twenty four year old man with a Memphis address. His name was Willie James Hempel. I had no idea who this person was I'd never heard of Willie hem pill. His name wasn't anywhere else. In the investigative file. I wanted to know why the cops were questioning him and why no just five days after the murders. And I wanted to know why there wasn't anything else in the file about it at come across this piece of paper so early in my reporting it hadn't even read all the trial transcripts yet. But when I did I found only a few very brief mentions of Willie James hill. And they were all in the six trial the latest one in twenty ten. In that trial, one of Curtis's lawyers s to investigators about Willie James Hempel. But the investigators almost nothing to say about John Johnson. The DA's investigator told the jury quote, I talked to him for five minutes. I don't think they learned anything. Estate investigator. Jack Matthews who is one of the people who actually read ham pill. His Miranda rights said he only talked to ham pill for quote short time before realizing hit. No anything Matthew said he was able to rule him out just by talking to another lawyer Curtis. A woman named Allison Steiner. It also asked the DA Doug Evans about Willie James hill in a pretrial hearing Doug Evans told the court. I can't even remember that name swallow Steiner said was this. Some other case y'all were prosecuting just fell behind the wrong file cabinet is that a possibility Doug Ivan's didn't respond to that question. But Evans told judge loafer, quote, anything that we have was. Furnished Evans said if it's not furnished and listed on the discovery we have never had it. And that was the end of it with DA, Doug Evans, and the investigators were saying was that. Whatever it was that it led the cops to Willie James have helped it got cleared up right away. But these answers that Doug Evans, and the investigators gave only made me more interested in what was going on with this interview of this man, Willie James hill. It didn't seem plausible that trained state. Investigators would bring in someone on a quadruple homicide. Read them is rights, and then not take any notes of what he said. And then ruling out based only on a conversation with him. It didn't make any sense. I wanted to know what was going on with Willie James compel my next clue something I've found not in a courthouse. But in a closed down plastics factory on the outskirts of known a- called US Corlett, a former clerk from one of the courthouses had given us a tip that Montgomery County was storing some of its records there, but another clerk told us if you're going to correlate you need to bring a mask. So I bought four masks and went to correlate with our producers, Raymond Natalie and our reporter Parker flick. This aluminum metal building with no signs on it. We're. We walked into the correlate factory. There isn't a Roma of something, sharp and unplayable. Like, a chemical gloves have face, meth, Laura's or made out of concrete and the ceiling was about two stories high the first room we walked into was almost empty except for a few things that people had left their over the years like a set of old school lockers, some long metal pipes and a collection of old medical equipment, including several old metal hospital beds with the dirty sheets. Still on them walked into the next room. This room was just as large as we walked in huge room. We saw stacks and stacks of rotting cardboard boxes all along the walls on one side. Each box was filled with documents. They're also thousands of documents just lying loose in heaps on the ground. Like someone had ransacked the room thrown everything up in the air and left. Talking about lake boxes in boxes like hundred piles that are each at least two feet tall. No organs at all. All of it should say all of it covered. Either black mold. Mouse dropping for both. This is what happened to the records. Literally eaten by mice. This is not good for us. Good at all. There's all kinds of stuff and the correlate factory there. Stacks of old leather bound books with the records of land deeds taxes in criminal cases of Montgomery County, dating as far back as eighteen seventy one their boxes of traffic tickets from the nineties never files filled with notes from sheriff's deputies from criminal investigations in the eighties and early nineties candy theft. Specifically upon arriving. I found that the candy machine had been broken into the peanut roles and the snicker bars had been removed from sheen machine door had been opened. I never could find how and where entry had been gained. The investigators. So. Are covered four bags of Eminem's two of candy. Against the wall was short medal. Filing cabinet with fourteen drawers inside were thousands of index cards. They were booking records for the local jail. Many of them were covered in mold. There were so many cards with so many names on them. It wasn't clear if any of them had anything to do with the investigation of the murders at tardy furniture. We didn't want to overlook anything. So we decided to take a photo of each one of them. We set up a table in the middle of the room in all four of us started taking photos with our phones it wound up taking us days. But eventually we taken a photo of each one of the booking cards all eight thousand fourteen of them. We're taking photos so quickly. We didn't even have time to read the cards inside correlate. So it wasn't until later that we realized that one of those cards was a jail record for Willie James hem hell, the booking card had Willie James ham, pills, social security, number and birth date, and it listed a Memphis address. And the day had been booked into jail was the same day that he'd signed away has Miranda rights in the way known police department, July twenty first nineteen ninety six he was booked in at four fifteen AM and seven hours later, he was sitting in a room with Wayne Miller and Jack Mathews the booking card didn't say what happened next the parts of the form for the date and time the inmate was released had been left blank. But this card was proof that Willie James hem Phil had it just been questioned. He'd been arrested. To figure out what was going on with Willie James Hempel and needed to find him. But no one I knew in my no had ever heard of him. So I went online, and I searched for anyone with the name Willie James Hempel who lived in this part of Mississippi and found someone a Willie James hemp hill who lived a few towns over and so one evening last fall, I drove out with our producers Samara to talk to him. The house were Willie James hemp live was in the delta about thirty minutes west of why? No. And as we drove out there the ground flattened got lower. And we started to pass field after field of white cotton stretching as far back as we could see as we drove the sunset. We turned onto a long gravel driveway that led twilly James pills house houses away trailer in a field setback from the road. The time we got out of the car was dark and the sky was filled with stars the crickets, reducing some kids are. Playing in the ARD man was outside working on an old truck. He had the radio turned up. Battle in. The system are nice to meet you. Okay. Yeah. We're radio reporters, and we were sopping bikes. We've been reporting on something that I don't even know if you remember it all which is Curtis flowers case is that was years ago, the fill the did the the French thing. Right, right. Yeah. And we came across like a sheet of paper in the investigative file for case and has your name on it. And I don't know. Wasn't me. Okay. Is this are you that Willie James this? My cousin Willie James hemp pill went to turn off the radio. Then he came back over. What did you see what you told me? What did you spend define? Well, I find that other Willie him. You will look for the duplicate. I'm the original this Willie James have told me that actually he's been through this before getting confused with another Dame's hemp hell, he said it happened back in nineteen ninety six right after the murders tardy furniture, and the people who came down his driveway back, then weren't reporters. They were cops. This not the first time that I've had to deal with that would episode because when it first happened Abilene, I had a yard full of care county shares Montgomery said because they because we have the basically the same name James embryo, you know, they thought it was me. Nothing here. Carroll county sheriff's deputies like riding down here. How many well it was three calls. I know it was three cars. What this Willie James hemp was describing was completely new to me deputies in squad. Cars driving through the delta on a hunt for a man named willy James have Phil. There is certainly no record of that. In the investigative file that the DA Doug Evans had turned over to cardis lawyers. So they were trying to figure out if you're the right kind of questions did they ask that made them realize that you are the wrong village temple. I think the biggest thing was when they asked me was I ended area wouldn't took place when I stabbed. Now. I was here, you know, not approved about was here because. Excuse me. I was at work. And it was like, okay. You couldn't have been at work and the two. So I think that was the biggest thing. This show. My dean told him about where I work good. They verified all of that. And it was. Really James hill told us that his guests is that the Willie James have pill, but law enforcement had been looking for was his cousin Willie James Hanff L. But he said he's not sure because never actually asked his cousin about it. We thought it was strange. You know what? Is this what you do business? If you go there. Mid one does your business because your life. You know, the consequences you grown, so we we questioned maybe two or three questions among ourselves. Everybody probably rich in the Kulu. Got another beer. Got drank a handsy and say oh. You know, because that's the way we look at it. I mean when you start trying to figure out why people do things for what reason you give stress headache. I asked him how to get in touch with his cousin. Won't be tough law. How the kids you? I don't know. I don't even have his phone. Well, we communicate basically over Facebook. And but that's basically it. It was getting late Willie James hemp, Phil's wife was almost done cooking dinner. Her you'll get it three time getting close. And so we said good night to this wrong, hemp hill and drove off. I tried messaging the cousin on Facebook. But what I didn't realize that my search for the right Willie James Hempel was only just beginning. Well, go decided to message the other really James hell so keep back. I think you may still have the wrong really do. Willie had is nine nephew and currently live in Chicago, a house of fears of whether. Without a Willie James hemp fill in Chicago on Facebook watched a bunch of Facebook live videos, he'd recorded live at eleven twenty pm. Going to hear that on. This Willie James have held was very bored. Willie James have held looking for someone to chat him up on Facebook. He recorded one video in the back seat of his car after work. He called it backseat. Chronicles? In the back seat. Oh, no. I sent this backseat. Chronicles really James have held a message and he called me right away. We talked. But sadly, he was also not the right hemp film. I kept going sorry. But I couldn't tell you who that might be that name is well use in that area. Elo. I'll have fun. Okay. That is a six Willie James hill. A lot of these Willie James have bills would lead me to another Willie James hemp Hempel. He has a relative who now is living near a military base. Talked to that guy that guy has a relative. Who's also Willie James hemp held back guy is too young talk to all three in this line of succession of Willie Jane's hemp pills. All of them wrong, all of them time consuming. None of these Willie James hemp pills was the right one. The Willie James have held. I was looking for was twenty four years old when he was questioned by the investigators, and according to that form he lived in Memphis at the time. But for some reason he was down in Mississippi on July twenty first nineteen ninety six five days after the murders at tardy furniture. Started expanding my search. I started going to every address I could find that it ever been associated with anyone with the last name of hemp hell, not just in my known, but all over this part of Mississippi. And then one day it went with our producer Behmen to address had found in the town of kill Michael about twenty minutes away that looked like it used to be where hemp hell lived a woman answered the door. We're we're trying to find a guy named Willie James Hempel Monday. The. Oh, okay. He's okay. Did he ever live in Winona? He did. Okay. Can you like Winnie lived in China? Louisville lease twenty years ago. Anteater live in Memphis. That is the Willie James to look at. To look at what I'd spent months trying to find the right Willie James hill finally seemed like I was onto something because this Willie James Hempel, according to this woman. Libby, had lived in Memphis and was living in y know off and on back in nineteen ninety six around the time of the tardy murders. Did he work downtown or something? He wasn't working man there. But he had a grandmother that lived over there. So he was in the Priscilla. Okay. So he was close to the city, but he was living in Memphis. He might have been doing that. Okay. 'cause he'll the mobile as down here, and he lived the, okay? So he was bouncing around young person. Young people do the live here by leeann outta get in trouble. So go down here. He was sorta ratty Bank. Did he might have just been in jail because he was rally baked okay? Like Enron ah. He might have been one today. They've talked to relieve. Had one them temple's in some some to heathen leg he was ready to jump. So there might have been with us. That's that's. Great. Thank you. Yeah. Good trip. Thank you so much. From what? All right. Thanks. Unfortunately Libby didn't have a phone number for her nephew Willie James hemp hill. But from talking to her I learned that he might have lived in Indianapolis at one point in Marion county, Indiana. So I started looking for him there. Here's America any jail website search for inmates just just put him pill. Search what a lot of hemp pills? There's so many. They don't all fit on one page. Okay. This goes up to. Oh, okay. Not only is in here. He's inherits all him one two three. I started calling other county jails in Indiana. Hi, I was calling to see if there's a way to go about checking the sea. Whether someone was in the jail in the past. Sure, it's hem pill. Willie? Okay. How many times are we talking about? Well. Was he in there recently? Sixteen. Okay. We got more information from that jail. And I went searching for any other criminal records Willie James Hempel might have had in Indiana. Memphis and Mississippi because maybe this could help us figure out not only where hemp pill could be living now. But also why the cops were interested in him back that and from the records we found it was clear that Willie James Hempel was a violent person back in the nineties before the murders. Tardy furniture Hempel had been arrested many times both in my known a- and in Memphis in nineteen ninety. He was arrested for sneaking up on a woman on a street in Memphis in the middle of the day and taking your purse he jumped into a drainage ditch to escape, but he was chased down by a cop in arrested and sentenced almost a year's probation in one thousand nine hundred one he was arrested for putting a gun to a woman's head in a parking lot in Memphis smacking across the head with it and stealing her purse. By the summer of nineteen ninety six the summer of the murders. Tardy furniture, Willie James ham pill was back in my no, I talked to a woman who dated him back then. And she told me that she and Hempel live together in a little house across the train tracks from tardy furniture about three blocks or so from the store court records from the nineties also say impel lived on that street in the years after the murders at tardy furniture Hempel kept getting arrested and his crimes became more violent in two thousand he was arrested in Memphis for beating and choking, his new girlfriend, and he pleaded guilty to assault that same girlfriend later accused Hempel of stabbing her with a box cutter we found there's even still an outstanding warrant for his arrest in Memphis for aggravated assault. Eventually Willie James Hempel moved to Indiana in two thousand four he was arrested for severely beating another girlfriend. He hit her with a four foot long pipe. It happened at the women's house while her young children were upstairs. One of them. A twelve year old girl called the police, but hemp Phil realize what she was doing and yanked the phone cord out of the phone the girl tried to hide in the bathroom and she screamed at ham pill that her mother was not going to die like this and hemp hill told her he was going to pour lighter fluid on her mom and blow up the entire house. The twelve year old girl climbed out of the bathroom window and jumped down and ran to a neighbor's house to call the police when the police got to the house, there was blood everywhere. But the woman was still alive by the time. We'd piece this all together believe James pill was out of jail presumably living somewhere in Indiana. The last arrest we found. Wasn't September twenty seventeen for dealing marijuana. But it didn't know where he lived. And I wasn't sure it'd be safe to just show up given his violent criminal record. But then just a few weeks ago. We were looking online checking Indiana jail bookings for Willie James Hempel, something we did all the time and our producer Natalie. Saw that Willie James hem hill had just been arrested and was sitting in Indianapolis jail. Right then and had a court date scheduled for Wednesday June thirteenth. I immediately booked plane tickets to go to Indianapolis to try to talk with them with our reporter Parker. I wanted to find out from hemp hill himself, why the cops had suspected him. And how he came to be talking to them in the first place five days after the murders at trial. Investigators said the whole conversation with hemp pill was really brief like a few minutes, and that Hempel had been ruled out just by talking to him. So that would mean the cops didn't collect any evidence from hatfill, then he didn't even really investigate him. The probably they had no good reason to suspect him in the first place, which is some random thing that they didn't bother documenting. So there was nothing that needed to be turned over to courtesy lawyers other than that one piece of paper the hemp pellet signed waiting his Miranda rights. That's what the jurors heard. I wanted to know if it was true. Got into Indianapolis at two in the morning. The night before the court hearing the next morning. We woke up early to get to the courthouse to figure out the logistics James have held was listed as being in custody. So we had to figure out a way to somehow talked to him during this hearing or when he was being led into the courtroom or out of it. Testing testing testing testing testing. So we're in Indianapolis, we just put in a parking lot. And we are maybe within the next hour. Gonna talk to Willie James hemp hill. Finally. Or not Willie James hem. Pill was scheduled for court at one thirty in the afternoon about twenty other people were also scheduled for court at the same time Parker, and I went into the courtroom courtroom was small and cramped. There are only two rows of benches in the back. We turn to sit down. And that's when we realized that sitting there on the bench about fifteen feet away. From us was Willie James Hempel. He wasn't handcuffed or wearing a jail uniform. He was just sitting there with his wife. So we sat down a few feet away and a minute or two later both of them got up and left. So we followed them realized they're just going to the bathroom. So we waited in the hallway outside for Willie James have held to walk by and. And when he did I stepped forward and introduced myself. We sat down in a little seating area around the corner. From the elevator on the fourth floor of the courthouse. Willie? Davis had pillow was wearing jeans Nike Airmax, shoes and grey Rockaway t shirt. Okay. Yeah. They actually have me as suspect. I've been talking to Willie James hem pill for less than a minute. And I ready. He told me I was a suspect in the murders. Atari furniture. Talk after sure. We all went back into the courtroom. And we watched as temples lawyer tried to get a marijuana charge against him pill dismissed the judge said another hearing and his court date was over as we went out. I asked Willie James have pill. If we could talk some more, he said, okay, but he had to get back to the jail where he was in a work release program. So he made plans to talk there. Two days later, we met up with him. Again, this time at the jail. We are led into a big empty classroom and a guard brought him pill in I asked Willie James Hempel to take me through the story how he'd ended up in the police station what they talked about. And why they let him go. Hempel told me that one day he thinks it was a day or two after the murders Atari furniture. He was driving back to I know from an amusement park in Memphis when his stepfather called him and told him that the cops were looking for him like really looking for him carloads of cops descending on his parents house. He said, maybe some of them even FBI agents. We actually talked to hemp Phil's mother a few days ago, and she told us that. Yes. Six officers had come to our door looking first son. She said she doesn't think any of them from the FBI. But she said it was serious. Mom, stabbed frayed that. Hey, if manhunt to me like they may shoot me down in the street. So I was told report to the nearest shift department or take a chance being inside down, basically. So it's like, okay. Okay. Well, Jim Semple said he turned himself in to the Montgomery County sheriff's office. But he said he didn't do it right away. Two days later that I actually walked into the sheriff department Willie help you immediately cuff me, and they came in question hemp, he'll told me that the investigators hadn't brought him in there to question him about other suspects. And they didn't offer him a deal. If you help them get information on someone else will eat James Hempel told me that the investigators were clear that they suspected him of the murders at tardy furniture. But he denied it. What are they ask you about my whereabouts, basically been if I had any knowledge which I didn't. So did they bring up Curtis at all? Actually, I didn't they didn't bring up anybody else. But like they were saying like, you're a suspect. Like, that's I mean, it was clear that that's what they're saying to you. Hempel said that the investigators told him that several people had seen him downtown near tardy furniture around the time of the murders. Witnesses placed you in the area, but they never said who. Like in the area like downtown or something. They was like we got someone place there. You can start lying type. I remember, you know, statements and questions like that. You can stop line. We got someone places you there or an area on the same. No placing you in the store or something store. Maybe on Front Street somewhere. Pretty sure today when it went down. I wasn't nowhere in town. Willie gyms. Handful told me that the investigators asked him where he was at the time of the murders. Basically, I was added whole jurisdictions. I was nowhere around. He said he told the investigators that on July sixteenth nineteen ninety six he was up in Memphis, two hours away shopping at a mall with the woman. He knew Hempel told me he doesn't know if the investigators actually checked his alibi at trial state investigator. Jack Matthews told the jury that he actually did not check hemp hills alibi. He ruled them out by conversation alone. Matthews told the jury, quote, I think we've pretty much ruled them out from the get-go. Willie James hem pill gave us the names of two people. He said might remember that he was at the mall in Memphis that day. One of them is dead. The other the woman he says he went to the mall with didn't return. Our calls harmful told me there was another reason that the investigators suspected him of killing the people at tardy furniture. And this reason had to do with the forensic evidence. In the case hemp pellet. I mentioned this to me at the courthouse. I was told that the brand of shoe I was wearing was a connection. Was which kind of shoe free while a Grant Hill? Feeler Hempel told me that when you walked into the sheriff's office to turn himself in. He was wearing field. Grant Hill shoes, the exact kind of shoe that investigators determined had made the bloody shoeprints inside tardy furniture. I'm not rich. I had one person. Yes. They may be probably try to match him to the actual was told that it was a blood stain with the shoeprint. So I was that I don't know the jurors at the trials of Curtis flowers had only heard of one suspect who could've worn feel grant Hill's Curtis flowers, even though it wasn't at all proven that Curtis. Warfield grant hills in the first place. Investigators never found the shoes they claimed Curtis war and Curtis had denied having feelers. The closest the investigators got was an empty shoebox found in Curtis's girlfriend's house. Let the girlfriend said belonged to her son, but at trial there were no other people accused of wearing field grant hills. So at trial to the jurors, it seemed as though the shoeprint evidence could only point toward Curtis, but according to Willie James ham hill, there was another suspect who definitely wore Grant Hill feeless and that suspect was him. Hempel said that the investigators told him the Ardy knew that he wore feeless because someone they wouldn't say who head reported him as wearing them. Somebody knew that I had feelers. And because that was the big that was the big thing was that. I had a pair of Grant Hill was and a lot of people that have. And I think that was that was like those shoes was the main thing that they connect me with. So do you remember what size feeless shoe you had? No, probably maybe nine or ten now twelve and thirteen. So I can't read can't be for sure. Willie James Hempel was telling us that back in nineteen ninety six his shoe size was maybe nine or ten and that was pretty close to the size shoe that Doug Evans has said and trial made the bloody shoeprints Atari furniture. Evans had said those prints were made by a size ten and a half Hempel told me that the investigators are so interested in his shoes in these feel grant Hill's that he'd walked in wearing but they asked him to take him off his feet took him for small amount of time. They end up giving them back. So I don't know what they did with them minutes or something or I'll say more than a few minutes. You know, tell do they like straight up tell you why they were interested in your shoes. I said it was some Franson left inside the store, and I mean, I guess trying Matt. Hempel told me that the investigators collected other evidence from him too. He said they took his fingerprints. And that the wave some kind of light over his hands and heavily said all of this should be documented somewhere because the investigators had a tape recorder that was recording the whole thing. And he said they took notes to record it. And I'm thinking it was two or three hours. It was like five minutes. That wouldn't have been enough time to even check my shoes. It is definitely more than five minutes that they talked to me. To L took it. Take five minutes to remember Morandi rights of having signed papers and set up. The recording tape recorder that takes five minutes. What really James hemp Pilla saying was that not only was he a suspect. But that the investigators had collected evidence on him. He'd been booked into jail it recorded the interrogation. They'd fingerprinted him. Did even take an spiel Grant Hill shoes for some time. And from what hemp till was telling me, the investigators didn't appear to rule out right away. Because he said that after the investigators did all of this after they questioned him about his alibi and took his shoes and got his fingerprints. They did not let him out of jail. Hempel told me he was held in jail for a while. Not just a neither to you said the reason they were able to hold him for so long was because he had a lot of unpaid fines, I tried to check this. But the jail were handful stayed has been demolished but just four days ago. The sheriff of Montgomery County responded to a public records request sent him. And he told us that his record showed that Hempel was in jail for eleven days from July twenty first nineteen ninety six to August. I the sheriff said his records didn't say why just that hemp pill had a warrant out for him in the city of why no. Willie James ham hill was describing a parallel investigation. There was the investigation of Curtis flowers. And there was the investigation of him with Curtis flowers when the cops were looking for him on the day of the murders. Just showed up in one squad car and knocked on courtesy store, and he agreed to come with them down to the station. When the cops were looking for Willie James hemp, fill the search was much more aggressive. It was a manhunt officers squad cars, roaming, the Mississippi delta authorities up in Memphis pounding on his mother's door. According to ham hill, the cops told him the reason they were doing this was because witnesses had placed him on Front Street on the morning of the murders. So close to tardy furniture. And because witnesses had told the investigators that Hempel where field Grant Hill shoes in a case where one of the few pieces of friends evidence was a set of bloody shoeprints made by. Grant Hill's found inside tardy furniture on the morning of the murders. And yet there was only one piece of paper about hemp fill in the file that the DA. Doug Evans, had turned over to Curtis's lawyers. Willie James hemp pill could be making up the story of what happened after he was arrested. But if he's telling the truth, you'd expect to see records in the file that aren't there? Those reports from people Hempel said the investigators told him had seen him MIR tardy furniture on the morning of the murders. There was no record of that. In the file or the fact that Hempel said he walked into the sheriff's office wearing feel Granville shoes. There was no record of that in the file ten pill said the investigators could even taken those shoes for some time. There was no record of that. In the file. He said they take in his fingerprints. No record of that. In the file hemp told me that the interrogation had been recorded at the investigators had also taken notes, none of that was in the file. And there was the fact that hemp pill had been held in jail for eleven days that wasn't in the file either. And this kind of material would have been critical information because it would have been evidence that the investigators were not just focused on Curtis flowers that in those early days after the murders. They thought that there might be evidence pointing toward the sky Willie James Chemphil. Hempel told us that no one talked to him about any of this since then he said, we were the first people to ask him about it. So no defense lawyer has ever asked to anything about this. Just apprise you. Goes usually reasonable doubt. Is I always look for. Having another suspect is definitely could create some reasonable doubt. It was like I said in house. I was like Dave one the second day like, hey, your prime suspect. And for now to be so sure that it was courtesy. That's just baffles me. I talked to Billy James pill for three hours that day and his version of what had happened when the investigators questioned him contradicted, the sworn testimony of the state investigator, Jack Mathews the DA's investigator, John Johnson. And the statement that the DA Doug Evans himself had made to the court. I wanted to talk to Doug Evans, an John Johnston about this. But they didn't respond to my interview requests on ham hill, I also reached out to Jack Matthews and Wayne Miller the two state investigators questioned pill Jack Matthews never responded way. Miller told me he didn't wanna talk about the flowers case. This thing is about. I will not make any comment on that. Because we have. No comment. Okay. And how come? Ashville is still in litigation is still. Still before the supreme court or whatever room. All that. I don't know what Curtis is lawyers will make of what we found out about Willie James pill. I've offered to go through our findings with them provided that it's on the record as part of an interview, but they've declined, but our producer Natalie did run this by Bennett. I Mun the law professor who's an expert on Brady, there's another person whose name comes up in the six trial and law enforcement says like while we spent like five minutes looking at him but ruled him out, but if it turns out that like they actually did look really intently at him would that would that matter with that? Oh. That would that would show that they're they're misleading. Natalie also spent Gershman whether it would be a Brady violation. If investigators had collected evidence from hemp hill like shoes and his fingerprints. And it hadn't been disclosed to the defense. Of course is this evidence that might be important in terms of the jury's evaluation of defense. Of course, it is Bennett Gershman said that if all this evidence existed and had been withheld it could help get Curtis flowers a new trial. In a hearing before Curtis flowers six trial judge per asked the DA Doug Evans a question. Do I have the state's assurance that everything you've had in your possession from an investigative standpoint. In this case has been provided. Doug Evans, said yes, sir. Everything judge low per said that was all you needed to know. He said, quote, I have got Mr Evans assurance on his oath as a licensed attorney in the state of Mississippi and under sanction if you didn't provide it because the bar would sanction him if he's made some statement to the court that was not true. But judge did ask one more question. Just to be sure judge low per ask. Doug Evans has the state got any exculpatory evidence. Dug Ivan said, no, sir, low per said or have you ever had any that has not been provided an Evans said to the court, quote, we have never had any evidence that showed anything other than this defendant's guilt. Evans told the court that all the evidence pointed to Curtis. But there was evidence that pointed to someone else. The jurors who decided Curtis lowers guilt. Never got to hear it. If the jurors had heard about Willie James ham pill might have made them question. Whether all the evidence really pointed at Curtis and Curtis alone. It might have made them doubt the case the DA Doug Evans was making. It might have suggested another way that all these pieces of circumstantial evidence could have fit together. It might have shown that the investigators had doubt in those early days as to whether Curtis was the one who did it. And if those investigators had out, maybe the jurors would too. Credits. Flowers has been in jail or prison for twenty one years. He's been tried six times one night last summer. I went to talk to a juror from the six trial his name is Alexander Robinson. And it asked him a question. Do you think that if they had evidence of someone else could have done it that that would have been helpful the no? It'd been definite. I don't know how we'd about it would have been different. Alexander Robinson said it have been different in the jury room. I don't know how we would have voted, but it would have been different. Next week the final episode of season two of in the dark. In the dark is reported and produced by me, Madeline, baron senior producer Samara free. Mark producer Natalie job Lonski, associate producer, Raymond Tunga, car and reporters Parker. Yes. Go and we'll craft additional reporting by Curtis Gilbert in the dark is edited. By Kathryn winter web. Editors are Dave man an- Andy cruise the editor in chief of APM reports is Chris Worthington. Original music by Gary Meister, and Johnny Vince Evans this episode was mixed. But Corrie Schrapel. To learn more about some of the other alternate suspects in the case, go to our website in the dark podcast dot org. They also recorded a video tour of the old correlate factory. Sue can see what it was like. And trust me, you want to see this all of that's on our website in the dark podcast dot org.

Willie James Hempel Willie James Curtis flowers Doug Evans investigator Willie James hem hill murder Willie Memphis Willie James hemp Mississippi Willie James hemp Hempel Willie James hem Brady Bobby Joe Townsend Willie James ham Willie James hill Willie James pill Willie James Chemphil
Lili Reinhart, SZA & Tones and I?

Who? Weekly

1:07:35 hr | 5 months ago

Lili Reinhart, SZA & Tones and I?

"Today's episode of WHO Weekly's brought to you by the CW watch new episodes of Katy keene. On Thursdays at eight seven central which ultimately is eight Pacific. Think about it or what. Does that make it a mountain? Don't you dare or stream free the next day on the CW APP they wanted? No welcome to the podcast relearn everything in each celebrities. You don't. I'm Bobby Finger. I'm Lindsey Weber in Jake. Paul Must Clap Zane from one direction because he is a little guy who has an attitude and basically told me to fuck off for no reason when I was being nice to him dot at that Zane. I know you're reading this dot. Stop being angry because you came home alone to your big S. O. Tel Room. Ha and then after Jake. Paul tweeted that is usually Hadid. Tweeted at Jake Paul and said law because he don't care to hang out with you and your embarrassing crew of Youtube groupies home alone with his best friends like respectful king. 'cause he has me. Sweetie unbothered by your irrelevant ugly ass. Go to bed. Go Two hours and hours. Later Jake Paul tweets somebody to take my phone when I'm drunk because I am a fucking idiot. Unbothered by your irrelevant. Ugly Ass is absolutely devastating. It's like yeah. It's definitely the Gif of Lake home alive as king like respectful king also. Her Grammar is out of control. But that's right to be clear everyone involved in this situation is a psychopath. G had won. I mean she clearly won an apparently so it was like what's going on with this. I kind of just assume that Jake Paul was starting Shit because his whole thing is boxing so he can like get in a fight with someone he's like. Oh box me. And that's literally his career. You know celebrity boxing essentially but apparently they're both in Vegas and they both attended this boxing match but like an actual boxing match naughty. Jake Paul Boxing match the eulex Match Tyson fury and the Dante Wilder match which is like apparently big deal. They were staying in penthouses next to each other at the West Gate. Las Vegas Resort and Casino. Which I've never heard of. What is the West Lescott? Is the West Gate? Is You know what the West Gate is now. West is the one owned by Queen Oversight Lady Interesting in Las Vegas. We looked out our window and we kind of copied the top three floors of the Paris. Hotel I'll be should use smaller envelopes because it turned out to be the largest home in America we never sought out to build the biggest house in America. It's just to kind of happened. They're both saying at neighbouring PENTHOUSE's and Paul invited Zane J. J. Paul invited Zane to hang out and then McLean said no and he understandably right and was like no. I don't WanNa hang out with you. And then he was mad okay. He twi- jake also tweeted Bro. He started yelling and frigging the fuck out. You WanNa test me mate. He said in another now deleted tweets L. O. L. I feel bad for child stars. God she deals with that. He deleted that one up this one the one that DJ had clapback at. But that's good. That's that's literally all that happen. It's a nice low stakes low level. Twitter exclusive feud the moment. Ged tweets at you like that. You don't you don't keep going. I believe that Bella. Hadid is boring but I guess digi Hadeed is not boring. What are some of your sneaker turn-offs though you know what I'm cool with it and I don't mind during sneakers but you'd better? They better be fresh. Now it's homeboys coming through with these. It's quiet yeah. Notice quite for him like if he comes through in deed you got some air maxes out here. You got some Jordan's homeboys in that like I. Did you know that I'm Sorta Cock my head when you said that I was like? Yeah sure I mean. She's out over a bullying unbothered by your irrelevant ugly ass. I believe Zane is boring and yet let me tell you why he didn't get involved here at all and also. I don't think you're tons of fun if Jesus had deed refers to you as a respectful king. I feel like you're like you are. You're very boring. I feel like you're boring. And you're sort of like just a boring sweet boyfriend a respectful. Kate he is respectful cannonball but nothing wrong with an the other thing though is that of course you don't want to hang out with dudes who essentially also make their money filming for Youtube. You don't want to be on Jake Paul's Youtube Channel and I think that they beat them into being on their youtube channel so they can get more. I was partying with Jake Paul. After this fight he would have tried to film him for Youtube. Recently asked the Youtube Star and now boxer about his plans for the future. I don't know what the future holds. Come on come on. We'll see I really don't know if you ask me like three years ago. Would I be standing here right now? Doing a interview about boxing knocking kids. I'd be like absolutely not Disney channel and I'm a blogger so like I. I don't know what the future holds. But you know you never know. We talked about this on Thursday briefly. And we can't talk about it. We have to say it for Tuesday. So listen thanks when Your Dad? Because it's near the top of the billboard charts and I was like we'd no one called about dance monkey. I think a lot of people have in the past but no one that we deal when the song was on its way up. Maybe when the song was Eugene Australia not here then it crossover now. It's like no now. It's big everywhere. You right right. I don't I you know. There are certain songs that you here. We talked about this a lot. Like in the grocery store at the read songs. The DWAYNE Reed. That's on the mainland. Radio is need you tonight but dance but but there are a lot there that are currently on the on the charts. Like I remember. Megyn is still playing at Dwayne Reed. So it's still. What's the Ariana Grande? Song that I heard everywhere. Look no tears to cry and break up with your boyfriend. Those played everywhere all the time. I don't hear dance monkey and public a lot and I feel like maybe I'm just not on the right spaces for that late. Maybe not. Maybe I'm too old to hear dance. Monkey US I had. It is a humongous song in public. But I haven't really heard it at the Dwayne Reed. Although it really should be playing the Dwayne rate I think it'd be a good way in retail. Yeah instead I only hear that Song Wayne Means Anthem. I heard That's the way it is at the walgreens recently. Oh as I was stepping out and I sort of like stopped I already I paid for my convenience stood there buy one get one half off by the way. Okay great and you stood. I am. I said there for you. Know an extra two seconds. 'cause I was like is it because it because you know that's the way it is starts without like sort of a theory. Yeah I heard the but the before. Selene voice comes in like it's just the dreariness. I and I was like I think and then she was like I was like Yep and then I walked out I was like that's it. I just need it the satisfaction of knowing that it was that's the way it is and that's the way it was. I have a problems begins. Leaned on as you're leaving this this running class that I take the the part where they stretch the end which I do a little stretching but I do my own so I usually leave when they stretch but one of the teachers now for the stretching portion always puts onto love you more and then I want to hear to love you more. I was like which one is to love you more. That's a deep cup kind of yes. So he puts on Celine. Dion's to love you more. I always go well. Should I shy stretchy? He shows day such. It's also with an iconic beginning. I don't know the beginning. You're GONNA play the beginning here. Thank you here in. You're like oh Dance Monkey I think has sort of an iconic opening. What is it again? Wait what is it again? It's yeah it is has the uplink you'd know that. Yeah it's a great story. I mean I don't love the song I really have to be does not to me. But New Story of the song and of this artist is so compelling So and it has. It has to things that we love about pop. Culture cultural figures one per the person as Australian to the person is embroiled in an age controversy. So all we know dance. Monkey sees me tones and is from Australia. But we don't know how old she as she claims or she doesn't even claim a lot of the Internet claims. She's nineteen but that a lot of the Internet is like wait a second. I think she was born in. Nineteen ninety-three not two thousand so well that's a fun thing that she just has an address honesty. I I think I don't there. There are a lot of older. There are a lot of it does. Yeah exactly it doesn't matter because the big issue get into it. Age controversies as when the artists themself gets involved. You know when they get involved like that's not true. That's not whatever but because this artist Tony Watson isn't saying anything that I'm like I don't care like it's not fun. If so she yards care by tones and I but her name is which is T. O. N. and the reason why this song is relevant or big or whatever. It is literally Australia's number one song of all time now. Somehow she's the big. It's it's the longest running number one single in their history right B. Y. Christmas in Crosby's all lost all time Australian record for his version of White Christmas which spent twenty two weeks which has five months which is as this but Kapiti article points out June to October right as the number ones on an Australian call in. You must've been this You must be hearing this song. Non Stop but why was white Christmas number one in June liber getting derailed? The song came out. The song came out almost a year ago and it was one of those songs. That was a very slow. It was big Australia. Then it got bigger else now. It's big here. And she won tons of awards at the Australian Music Awards. Everyone has like profiles of this woman. The New York Times thing the behind the smell really she was a she was a busker. In Byron Bay. Which is I guess. A place where a lot of buskers go to play music and she she got a following where people would actually show up to hear her specifically versus like tourism kind of stumbling into her people showed up to go here her. I used to work at a special on Beck straight which is really busiest potter. Melvin and those of Boscombe Beck Straight. I really really wanted to busk. I couldn't even playing the instrument at this point where my friends was like. You should come to Byron because you can literally just pack up and bust out of the side of you van and also cow give it a guards van mixture Byron Bay and Started To Vima van according to wikipedia. The single hit number five in the. Us It's not quite number one. It's getting blow. Yeah it's way it's way up there. I think that's why we brought it up because it was just shared the charts with Justin Bieber and Ranked because Bieber the box. It's currently number five on the hot one hundred and has it's because number five a yankees number five and above. It is so that's tones that I could be talked about her song cool. There's is there anything interesting about her other than like her start and they each thing. No no I thought there'd be something interesting but it just kind of Louis Cataldi thing where it's it's there's not a lot of it's more just about the where she she and he came from the newness of it all and one song that one important. Song. It's like. Oh well can. They follow predictable so yeah it could is as a one hit. Wonder Not love US BEING. They cermony good amazing people in the street. The reason that I'm hia up but there was one night that was very frustrating and I've wrong about that It will grab my head and be like you know you stopped me Daddy. My tracks was walking by me. Please just seeing. I've just got to get my husband. I'm literally just repeating what people tell me as wise if you replace dance with the woods seeing it's just about me. Busking quick headline Jim Collins claims her tire. Ty was slashed outside. Heritz before offering mechanic gifts from her boutique dot dot dot print disease despite being banned as company director. This has this is one of those headlines is you have to break it down by part first of all you gotTa Die. Gralow background tire. That's didn't realize that until we saw this headline like when I was like okay. I'll let higher like a fight like Pyre I guess Because then I feel like it so it doesn't confuse you with like that's tiring like maybe it's smart exhausted. We'd I never confused tire with tiring I know but written but even then okay Britt Okay and then Harrods which is which is it. A permanent store to store store offering her mechanic gifts from her. Oh so she went to get her tire fixed and she was like. Oh instead of paying for this tire. I'll give you gifts for my. I don't know that she did it instead of paying. I think she did it. In addition to paying okay. But we don't know anything yet and then. Apparently five days ago she was banned which I don't even know that means from being company director because her business owed seventy thousand pounds in tax. It was a different see. It has nothing to do with this. It's just. She was giving gifts from the boutique where she was banned as company director. They really don't have much to do with the foot. She did actually have to. She did. Oh seventy one thousand pounds in back taxes. Yeah and that shut down her business. Which is why she has so much to give away. I guess so. It says in the video Jim appraised the mechanic and demanded he bring his wife to her Essex Boutique despite reportedly being banned from directing accompanied for the next three years following investigation into her liquidated clothing. Business Right which is called by the way Gemma Collins. It literally is her name loss. Wake the lovely Carol a mountain and asked me if houses have failings. Now A win onto cy. The yeah you know you walk into a house and get a certain failing but does the house have failing so you really did. Give me food for full so Alex. Rae Google I think it Cypher. Most mark less Was you at one to one. And what is the national animal of England as opposed to know that we have nominees? Yeah we do the clean wants. Prince Harry and Meghan Markle's departure from the royal family quote over and done with the nets the quotas from a source. That's not from the Queen. So the next one I believe is one of those perfunctory twenty nine Meghan. Markle reportedly has some quote secret visits planned for her and Prince Harry's trip to the UK boring neighbouring barring. Then there's this one which a lot of people wrote about Meghan Markle's best friend Jessica Mulroney member. Her is quote setting up new international charities and her and Harry's name well I read this to. This is just news. Not even headline interesting just news. She's the one who registered sucks. Sussex local charities DOT COM. I know her. She got a friend to do it. Which is so weird. But they can't use the Sussex Royal Brand. So they're doing that's the whole Global Global Shore O. R. I think this is the winner. It's not like we don't know what they are who they are at this point. It doesn't you don't need royal to remind us to say Harry a Meghan. Yeah what who needs us? Who Live there to be connected to the throne anyways. That's some corrupt shit. No from now on your hair Harry a Meghan of Los Angeles. Hey Chano Toronto. Toronto WELL TORONTO SOON to be by way of the other way. This is the winner I think. Prince Harry and Meghan markle could earn over eighty five thousand pounds per instagram posts in their bid to become financially independent. More than twice as much as Prince. William Credit Middleton clerk claims while none of them have earned money for any instagram's yet. This is just an expert looking at instagram. Saying here's how much money they could earn. That's a good expert draw. Says they both they both twice earning power of Prince? William and Kate Middleton comes following the boost to their following after they stepped down as seniors just based on follow count? But this is this is very loose on follow. This is a very silly article. Of course it's Daily Mail. It's very silly. Do we think that that's the winner? I mean if like daily always wins and I wanNA find I wanNA find headlines in which they don't in which other people win but that is the stupidest one definitely just desperate for an expert. They found one I mean. I'm sure the expert came to them. Like Hey I'm an expert in social media and My opinion is that Harry and Meghan will earn more in Wikipedia than William and Kate. And William K aren't trying to earn money on Wikipedia Wikipedia of instagram. Wow what me out to pasture. The point is is that William and Kate aren't earning money on instagram at all. No one is earning money out of the more Graham ear. The camp this makes it seem like Harry and Meghan going to be like by my the fit t by my you know whatever. What else do people saw on instagram? These days same shit. We sell on this podcast. The the the the smile brainers my. Yeah can you see? Can you see Harry like brushing his teeth with like a charcoal toothpaste or whatever? And he's like by my teeth Whitener or whatever Meghan Low William would do you know William Hair limbs. Yes yeah him. Yeah but it I love but who would buy it. Based on his the out it has to be like it. Looks like it works. Do you would have to use it. Will they? Will the key cares? I'm more thinking? What are Harry and Meghan GonNA BE? They can't do any. They can't use their instagram to sell anything. Sorry aside from charity aside from money for starving children and animals. That's what they'll do like you said this is a worthless. They would never sell the restroom. Smartly cheapen their brand lake when you're making a million dollars to speak at like a golden. No you're not GonNa do this and also it would any type of in real life. Event is preferable to Social Media. Like they're always going to choose to do a speaking event or anything that is kind of barely a blip unless you were there over at the sort of subliminal spawn con where it's like. Meghan might get another ever bag. You know like words like will around technically to do that stuff member her she kinda allow to. They'll pay carry a bag or they'll pay harry the lake where a certain co that's and do whether or not they will do it as is yet to be seen okay. Maybe we'll get a new tesla. Maybe they'll get a cyber truck. I'll drive around with us. I believe was driving around in our cyber. Chuck's together said Mess Ride. Maybe Megan's going to get a free apartment at three hundred Ashland. All of these things are possible now rape but she would say posting. I'll do something else in exchange for this free apartment. Three hundred Ashland either. She'll giving apartment to lake. I still give arguments there. I think they are. Oh maybe they stopped they still it still has that stuff on his merits like I. There's a lot of vacancies in that building. Let me tell you Interesting should have asked me to move in. I would fill that building just kidding. I was speaking of vacancies. There's GonNa be a lot of vacancies on magazine covers because this Kasit as a WanNa do him. Any more vacancies on magazine covers. Nice transition thank. You says an Armani and Meghan Austalian were on the cover of rolling stone in a very cool photo. The problem is says a hated the cover. Apparently this is an. It's very unclear what happened to be honest and even read the piece. Sorry I don't I was good. I don't did you read it now? She tweeted not doing any videos interviews photos of the rest of my life l. Don't ask thumbs up so it's like what happened. Yeah and then she followed her with shouted Ramani and Mega. So it's like. Is there drama between her negative normany but then she says shut Ramani and Meghan know my sister so I love very much and respect deeply honored to be a part of anything with these two black queens heart prayer Moji Crown Emoji? Then she says my anxiety has point zero three percent to do with outside opinion. I was bullied all through high school and could care less. It's my own thoughts that hit different so something about this cover. Made her very anxious and she's upset but the covers very good used well. It's just confusing. Because that's such a broad statement. I'm never doing a magazine. Cover ever photo shoot or video ever again. You certainly are going to be doing that when your album comes out or whatever happens next with you because says kind of disappeared not disappeared but you know is working on something. What what was this week? That you sent me offering these women Whereas the album or something that says the it was pop crepe tweeted the cover says Megan Stallion and Norman Lear. Music's next superstars on the march covered rolling stone. And then this risk this response from someone Black Pink butters responded. They all have one thing in common data whereas the album. Where's the album is such a? We're the album modern thing. And it's honestly it's already honest fault but that it's gotten this big but it's such ambience Jeff fandom but not as much as Rana like because it originated for me with beyond say with whereas the album before beyond that came out I But beyond our but beyond. They never went that far between albums to really have. Where's the album? Be The joke or the thing that it became with Rhianna to the point where she's responding to. Where's the album you know in now? Riano took longer between unapologetic an anti. That's for sure. And also antea not be also I think. Where's the album is not even kind of a mean thing to say but it all but I think artists hate it like hated the most of anything that people say to them whereas the album? It's what's What's an equivalent for normies like us when you're in a conversation and someone asked a question that's like if you fucking like how dare you ask me? It's sort of like like what are you up to know. Like what do you is it like? Is it like Having kids like are you having house? Yeah when you're going to have kids. Oh my God. We had that were similar. It's similar to like when you're gonNA have kids For thirty said also like when people just ask you about your job when they know that your jobs sort of frustrating to you you know I guess he will ask you things. They should know better to ask you about you. Know I don't know if there's an equivalent because it's it is really based around the expectations of a Phantom and thinking people not really knowing what you're doing an assuming you're doing nothing okay. So maybe a little relatable or just people thinking that your just assuming you're doing nothing not working hard not making anything enter dislike okay so sweetie whereas the album because so many people are on that album cycle that is like every two years or whatever whatever the cycle is so God forbid you take longer than that you know but it's also hard. I also think that it has to do with Modern Day fandom being so involved in like the careers of their beloved idols. Because you have normany who comes out? Who has hit single and everyone who is invested in her is like okay. Where's the album like now? She should have an album because like oh that single was so good and now she's like riding high from it. But where's the album? It brings us all a bunch of fucking nosy. Know it alls about Murano Bernudo. We think we know everything. Just look at us. We have a podcast. I'm Paul everyone thinks they know everything. So everyone's more judgmental than they've ever been before a it's personal I think to the wears and then couple couple that with a truly deranged desire for likes an. Rt's yeah you WanNa say you WANNA bully says normany and Meghan Azalea by saying whereas the album not only because you really want to know where the album is but also because you want gay people to see you ask for the album so that they will like your a tweet about whereas the whereas the album is its own ecosystem of kind of whatever. You're the its own thing. I just loved it. This this is all predicated on like like the belief that says as being serious all these headlines. It's like she's never going to do another photograph or interview. And it's like are you kidding but also you know Nancy's says I. Yeah where they've been but mega stallions everywhere on. I guess she doesn't have an album but Judas on every track every trial. She's on so it's kind of unfair to to kind of lump them all together and apparently according to some other thing. I was reading. Ciza is on the new Justin Timberlake trolls track. That's coming out. There's a neutrals movie. There's always new trolls movie. That's like asking. Is there a new Christmas every year? We got a new Christmas. Did you finally watch sack lunch? Bunch on it so good so good so fucking wouldn't believe like this hold you. I could not bladder is just a plain paid a pasta with a little bit of butter. My it's my favorite song jam. It's the best saw. But there's a the focus group part where they were talking about bamboo to bamboozle the quality quality. But he mentions. He's like the the talk about how like. It's now their favorite movie of all time because they just watched it outweighed outweighed their previous movie of all time which was minion. Seven president meeting even. Raise your hands if this movie that you just saw. Bamboo to bamboozled is your favorite movie of all time. Okay that's unanimous and who among you thinks he might run home and tell the entire plot of the movie breathlessly to the First Adult basie and the movie. The quality me has produced it. I mean there could. Well it has to go find their MO JO so she goes to the jungle and then they fall in the mud and at the end. There's a song. And But one part I forgot when the kangaroo falls on its but could we use that entire things the log. Line to the movie you May. I actually could relate to being like the movie that I watched as my favorite movie of all time. That is Gel relatable to me. That was a spirit was especially me in like elementary school. Every time I watch movie I'm like That's the best movie I'll ever see. I'm giving up and my my siblings have make fun of me 'cause My brother my brother would always like joke about my tendency to veer towards hyperbole. Like oh was it your favorite. It's your favourite as an army like. Yeah it is. It is true belly a by the way that I just WanNa be clear that troll song or whatever this the song says anti-religious coming out. You know it's coming out on the twenty six so which is tomorrow tomorrow for you guys. Yeah that's too early for that okay. Moving moving I can't. I can't ear rot right here. Trying to were desperate to listen to this. We absolutely have not heard before from Lady Gaga and meanwhile Islah every every what about this. What about this Troll Song? I don't want this bobby. Bobby is so desperate for Lady Gaga to release a song. He already has in his possession as listen to so many. I don't have no excuse me. I've never heard the song I'm hanging out with Your Life Hall. Gago released stupid love which I love but we didn't know what it sounds like but I actually love no I love it is. I've never heard it and I don't know what it's called. I have however it is funny. Like whenever you're you open spotify and you're like maybe today as the day and then it's like no but what about this and then spotify. Rudas spotify serves me. This new Atlantis Morissette single called smiling. Which you claim was honestly pretty good. Well this is like how the Queen of disaster. That unreleased Lana del Rey song from forty five years ago that like fell out of her computer is now at tick. Tick Tock Tick Tock me so now I open tick tock and I'm slipping flipping and I'm hearing Lana del Rey cleanup disaster. Mp Three that. I've had in my documents for ten years. Not Ten. Even these streams clean. It is Peter I gotTa Make Claims. Asser antifreeze in the folder. So we can go into my spotify like in here. Queen Disaster. Now it's a mean so. Many songs fell out of the race laptop just fell right out of her laptop she lose a laptop. That literally said Lana del Rey songs on it like written in fucking who'd stole all these songs. The only person who's allowed to ask whereas the album is Lana del Rey about her own unreleased album. Where's my album? I'm not sure I misplace four years ago and I'm not Joe Eras you know that is that is that is the story that you know our our generation's best music journalists have to right. We have to find the thief who stole on the race laptop and put our entries Nelson absolutely one person. It's one person in this series are just around. The I cannot believe this one song that is is on is just becoming me Monte. Toc Kids are like I play it. Is it a relying clip and play a clip? 'cause it's on Tick Tock. I'm law sent me a lawless at me. A great tick tock making fun of Clarisa fits and Chris NOCCO set to queen of disaster and I was like wait a second rate. This is you had a kid. That's what would come out as a tick. Tock of Clare Savage and Chris Morocco's set to queen of disaster. The doctor's like it's a this. It's a I don't whatever it is. It's extremely gay. God yet again. Think about that that tweet. Thanks gay one of my all time favorite tweets who was at anxiety. They thanks gay. Okay Tom can we please move onto something? We'll learn at will Arnett and girlfriend at all. Oh there's so much heterosexuality and the rest of this episode. Thank you please thank you. I just need equal. I need equal representation. Okay thanks I know. It's it's what is the what is the act. Equality Act the fair. The fair the act that Bill Bill Clinton repealed. That where you have to have you have to talk about both sides on the news equal no though the fairness doctrine God. Why couldn't I think of that? The fairness I can think of it either. The equal time rule. And then it. It was repealed in win. Was it repealed Papa Papa Papa Papa Papa up up up up up up. It was revoked in nineteen eighty five. Oh Reagan did it am I wrong? I don't your your doesn't matter I I'm I'm spiraling will Arnett and girlfriend Allesandro Bron as and brawny with the white towels thought. The white expecting their first child together. This is a shocking development and on Easter. Were dating I think we knew they were dating. I think we mentioned it really. We may have cut that we mentioned it but we definitely mentioned it if we measure boring. Cut It. It's one of those things where it's like. Oh Will Arnett this like this dude who dates a lot. A lot of younger women post his divorce from like what was at one point. Hollywood's favorite couple dates allowed under women. Who cares about this anymore but it turns out they might be in it to win it because now they're going to have a kid. He is hosting lego masters Which is good currently. You watched it. You liked it. I watched the episode. It's not what I thought it. What it's actually kind of thought it was. It's people playing with legos. I thought it was like New People. I thought it was sort of like a nailed thing. No legos not not. Yeah and so it's every it's it's it's you know like project or your top shop where it's the same people every episode. They just eliminate them one by one. I thought it was like New People every week and I thought that would be boring. No it's actually so. Is there a high stakes there? High pressure so she is the former CEO of the clothing brand chapel. But that's like not even that just like the only thing that US weekly could kind of some her up in her ex-husband is guy named John needed each and they were like guest of a guest vogue etc like number one of when they were together Hahtrick McMillan because he runs this hospitality group that opens bars. So He's you know. New York's guy or one of New York's guys. They opened acne and this these bars literally. What's so funny? I've never of half of these bars like I go to bars and I've never heard of the happiest hour and Tijuana Picnic the happiest hour. I've been there the happy's our folks if Alex is next door to duplex and it's like you walk in and it's like oh I hear they have good like Manhattan and you walk in and it has like eight billion people in there but it's like Kinda cool aesthetic but it's just very hip the bar that I know we have been too because you've been there together. That he held open is Justin Thoreau's fo- dive bar race. We did go to Justin rose. Fo- dive bar raise and I did like just do what I did too. I would return to just in Thoreau's fo- dive bar race. So he helped hoping that with his his group now forgetting what the name of the group is. I have it somewhere golden age hospitality right so he so they were like this power couple. This New York power couple and that means which is unfortunate to the fact that they broke up they were written about as a couple like a thousand times by like websites that I swear to you. You'll never hear of again like the tile list and they did the wife hotel rooftop. Oh my God there. This is a this is an aesthetic. I desperately trendy for those of you who have not been to these laser. They're just like desperately trendy but they are successful. It's just like you know exactly what you're getting. I mean this is a couple who literally ninety nine point. Nine percent of the world doesn't know their names but they got their wedding got written up in Vogue. Which is you know like a favor thing. Essentially I mean I know. Vogue likes fancy weddings and it was a fancy wedding. But it's also just like and she's fashion adjacent. It makes sense. She's fat she is. She remains fashion adjacent so now. She's Oh well our noche now. She's with Bill Arnett now. She's apparently pregnant. Yes apparently according to this Does it say when they're do. No no no. Let's see what P so people reported it? I think I don't know who broke it. Who CARES And sure it was. I'm sure it was given to us. Weekly let's see both have they both have they. Both have children from other relationships was the first to report it. Then you click on US weekly. Do they have any other information? They are very happy and thrilled. The LEGO movies actors girlfriend is pro. I hate US weekly. The LEGO movies actors girlfriend is pregnant. Multiple sources tell US exclusively. They are very happy and thrilled and insider ads There's nothing like being there for talking about His Boys Archie enable with Amy Poehler Blah Blah Blah were developed word Were falling down a hole when he we are. It's no longer interesting. Are you sure you know it's interesting that the photo I just sent you wait? Let me look member? He didn't that woman Elizabeth Law. We were obsessed with her for a second to He. Dates interesting women member thing. She had a thing but I already forgotten. Yeah then guess what. The interesting woman dumped him so me when I reportedly thrilled. Yeah they both thrilled. They both really both look miserable. I mean it's really funny. That will Arnett face. Looks like what Bowe Jacquart Horsemen's voice which is his voice? It represents you know it's very that's good. It'll always be bodak horsemen. But it's very good casting in terms of will Arnett and his shore his Volvo okay Let's move on. Let's move on please please silly game silly game. Yeah they always are. Yeah but it's called. It's called questions and answers okay. So the way that this game works is looking at us. Weekly yesterday and I was noticing that A lot of headlines Star frame or framed as questions are structured questions and this is not just an US weekly thing. It's all over the place some questions that have answer some of the questions that do not have answers. And so I just found a lot of headlines in the past week that are phrased that are structured as questions and. I want to see if you can answer the question if I give multiple choice. Okay Okay so you'll get you'll get you'll get you'll get the host works. I and I get it from us. Weekly number one our southern charms Catherine Dennis and Thomas Ravanelli back on. Yes no or unclear. Oh Shit I it could be the host. Let's say yes. I'm sorry the answer is no off. This is how this story got started. There was a fan account. Posted a pic of them together and it says when you get the good news that southern charm is finally started filming but bad news that these two are officially though that was then then Katherine and then Katherine commented and said not true. So it's not true. Okay I like this game okay. Number two yeah from US weekly question. Jericho hinton what's in my bag. What's in her bag is it is breakers ice cubes sugar pre peppermint. Gum Peer Gum. Sugar free spearmint chewing gum or simply. Gum Natural Maple chewing gum. The last one a trick question. It was the most obvious brand icebreakers ice Cube sugar-free peppermint gum. How is that okay question because you would think it would be like from a fancy college? There's no gum in her bag. I would've killed you so continue though. It was like it was like I thought because he thought it'd be like I only buy gum from like the honest gum company. That's made from organic. Be Icebreakers. Come that has like the Jelly in the Middle Z. Tonight's breaking okay. Us EXCLUSIVE WHO ENCOURAGED MATTHEW. Perry to join instagram. That's outline I think I know the answer is it. Is it Courtney Cox Yeah Markov Maha or Molly Hurwitz. Who's Molly Hurwitz his girlfriend? Oh Courtney Cox and I'm sorry it's Molly Hurwitz. Let me liquid from us. Weekly her idea. Matthew Perry's girlfriend Mommy Hurwitz. Had A hand in the actor finally joining instagram. After some familiar faces did the same small. Okay fine I hate this game. Yeah number four selected. Yeah but I'm not good at it. It's not number four wedding bells. Jen Garner in John Miller's relationship everything we know are their wedding bells are their wedding bug and yes okay. No or unclear unclear. No it's no wedding bells. They're just nobody but is it unclear. No no because according to the source quote John. Very much wants to marry her but he knows she can't be rushed so they're Nobel. Okay fine I'll never get a question right. Yeah Okay and then this one. This is for me which I just love. This is only you can answer this question. Did you catch young? Sheldon's Big Bang Theory Crossover okay. We're good no yes. No we're unclear. No no I didn't catch. Is that your truth? Yes I didn't catch okay. Then you got it right. I know like I finally was okay. Okay next question. This is celebrity Queen Latifah in asleep cost address in Madrid Colon Chic Goth Fab or all of the above. Okay so as it Sheikh Goth Fab or all of the above I based as based on what the author actually wrote in the copy week Goth Fab or all of the above all of the above sorry Lindsay Answers Chic Chic Chic only The person wrote I thought Latinos dress with a full lake knitwear down and I was like how Sheikh. Omg Not its shape. It's just shaking. Okay okay from gossip COP. There should be obvious did Brad Pitt relapse on. We'd yes no or unclear. No no they wrote Brad Pitt did not relapse on we got. The answer is always no okay. Next went from TMZ Nissan ash good genes or good ducks foucault. Is it good genes or good ducks? I went to the poll at the bottom. Yeah I took part in the poll okay and I got the poll results based on the poll results. Okay does niece Nash have good genes or good? I'm GonNa Guess said good. Genes good genes one fifty percent to forty-two percent. You GotTa right good genes tough okay. Okay from Bossa okay. How you doing is Wendy Williams. Getting her talk. Show couch cakes crumbled smithereens by this mystery man yes no or unclear. I WanNa say I saw this and I read all about it. I WANNA say it's unclear it's unclear it's unclear. Yeah because they talk about what happened and then the the admits it's still a mystery or not. Okay we don't know it's unclear. Yeah okay also possible single or not Ryan Henry sponsor rumors. He's chopping down Crystal Smith and back with the baby. Mama yes no or unclear singler now yes so single. Nah Single yes. Single Year round this is Ryan from black ink crew. The asked if they asked if he was still dating crystal Smith and he said I don't know what you're talking about. That's a now okay. Yeah that's single dads single and then the last question again. This is your journey not mine. Melissa and the longest yard member her do you member. Listen the longest yard yes or no no. I don't know her that's correct. You don't remember her okay. Looks like you got like a like a solid. See Mine and all of them were like opinion like my own. Subjective only two of them were your own subjective opinions. Okay that very very game. But I didn't do well okay and then do but I'm okay with it because it was a good game. I know you have a helix mattress Lindsey pulling out of the box. I share the love it as well. I mean having a nice mattress changes your life base level. You know but having a mattress. That actually is what you want. Nice plus actually fits your sleeping. You know I'm a I'm a belly sleep. I'm a front sleeper. You know of a belly. Syam Magali Slash. So it's it's different than being on your back you know. It's a totally different vibe. So this mattress is like four me. You know it's my mattress. It fits my body which is really cool. I like the and that's because I took the quiz on Helix Sleep. That only takes two minutes to complete in matches your body type in sleep references to the perfect mattress for you. Whether you're aside sleeper. A hot sleeper Hudson hyper only autumn. Mahad sleeper we've helix there's no more confusion on no more compromising on an average mattress. Helixsleep was just rewarded number one best overall mattress of two thousand nineteen by G. Q. And wired so just go to helixsleep dot com slash who take their two minute quiz and will match you with a customized mattress. That'll give you the best sleep of your life. They have a ten year warranty. And you gotTa chairs and you'd have to try twenty thirty s right. You get to thirty the ten you registered for the last twenty thirty six hundred days risk free. They'll even pick it up for you if you don't love it but I think you will so I think so. Too Helix is offering a two hundred dollars off all matters orders for our listeners at helixsleep dot com slash shoe. That's Helix H. E. L. I. X. SLEEP DOT COM slash. Who for up to two hundred dollars off Lindsay? You know me you love you know I love feeling Fab and you know me nor do I love feeling fit and funds. Most of all we loving than we are and FAB infant. And that's why I really love my Fab that fund bugs. I got my step that fuck you and I do you know it was what I got some new silica. It was very me. Yeah new silicone straws that I can take with me everywhere. Oh that can be sustainable. Got A new kitchen matt and Rochelle. Do you got Do you. I got a robe to bring to this to this to this the sauna. My little robe. I got a umbrella. Which actually you'd think is like. Oh an umbrella but actually a nice umbrella. They'll actually stand the test of time and weather I got a bunch of really good makeup full size. I was really impressed with what was in this box I had to. I got to leave in conditioner as well. Who and my favorite thing honestly. Yeah packing cubes talking about really cheap ones and they fell apart and so. I needed replacement packing what these are. Great I love it. Gives the spring twenty bucks has been revealed and it's Allendale for a limited time. The boxes customizable by the way so like their products that you choose for your box but every box is different for every person. That's why my box was different from Lindsay's box. Obviously the box if you WanNa these. Where's the fact that team will curate? A selection of products. Just for you that happiness delivered straight to your door. Each season choose from a variety of beauty fashion fitness and wellness products to customize your very own springboks. It retails before two hundred ninety nine but has value over two hundred dollars. Use Coupon Code Hooton. Who Ten for ten dollars off your first box at that. Von Dot Com that is code. Who Ten for ten dollars off your first box at that. Fun Dot Com. This is this is so stupid. Janna Kramer and Mike Costin Redo New Year's Eve after nude photo drama tainted holiday. We keep hearing about these two and they're always having issues all and it's always because he's a cheater right. Well it's the same issue that keeps coming back. He claims that I bought sent him a nude photo which happens. No it doesn't happen. No it doesn't remember that one nude photo that everyone was getting like two years ago. No and it was like it wasn't nude it was cleavage and I got it and I think it was with you got it and I was like what is this. Is this a wrong number? And then I noticed that everyone was getting it and people were tweeting about this. Like photo of cleavage. No I don't remember that at all so I feel like that's happened. One okay. So they've definitely got the bond so the so these to their new year's eve was ruined because he had a nude on his phone I guess or something and he admitted he had she. He admitted he had cheated before at some other point and so now the they celebrated New Year's again but recent now but now they watch the ball drop again. And why would you okay? Whatever they watch the ball drop again they redid. It takes their lunatics. The funny thing is the side because I got a screen shot of this text included some of the side headlines past headlines and they are Jana Kramer finds photo of topless woman on husband. Mike Causes Phone and Jana. Kramer apologizes to those offended by hot nanny comments. I actually did only no. I don't remember these hot nanny. Comments may look at this. Janet Cramer apologizes. I'm looking on people. We get this right. Janet Kramer says hot nanny. Comments were taken out of context. Apsar after Ashley Spivey Claps Beck Janet Cramer wrote on Instagram for the Nannies. I have offended. I'm sorry what's the new the New Jenny? Han Book to all the Nannies. I've offended before to all the Nannies. I've offended before offended coming soon till like lifetime. I'm movie channel Okay. Yeah they're a mess. I look at this person. Every time I see her name and it's she was on one tree hill and then she sang country music and every time. I'm like what okay. What she said was hiring hot. Nannies is not smart. Because at Ted's the husband and she says when your husband cheats she said I just think you look at some of these nannies. And I'm like well you Kinda ask for it. Oh you can't that's about. I say that you can't say that. Say that My So that was a whole thing. That was last April. Yeah Yeah I can't believe they redid New Year's also near sucks. Why would you WANNA Redo new? Years and years is bad while they're laughing. I'm sorry even if your husband weren't a cheater you wouldn't have had a good time on New Year's Eve. I'm sorry it's not fun. Maybe they will always think it's GonNa be fun to get pressed because there was speculation that they were gonNA split. Which is what this headline says from Union Journal Frenzies blog so. I don't know I love this. Let Lily Reiner and has a new man in her life and you had like a breakdown because of okay first of all I knew that Lily reinhart got a dog. Don't ask I just knew because I saw it on your instagram. Oh so you you knew it as like you had read it not just like you. You had a feeling I saw the Graham. That Lily Reinhart got a dog. So when I saw this headline I knew they meant a dog. But the headline says Lily. Reinhart has a new man in her life and his name is Milo and I was like okay. I get what you're doing and it's cheeky and it's rude because it's not a man. It's a dog a male dog so you could say lily. Reinhart has a new mail in her life and his name. Is Milo a male dog? But you can't say that. She has a new man in her life. Because it's not a man it's a human a man as hume in a male it could be assured doesn't know that jared midst jet day of like Fourth Grade English. Okay do you think this is at all cute? I haven't seen the dog. Yeah it's cute. It's cute it's cute. It's okay when I type. And Just Jared L. I. L. O. Just Jared L. I. L. I. L. O. Weird the suggestions with L. A. L. are even though it's I L L. Just jared little mix just Jared Little Mermaid and then. I could gesture. Billy Reinhard mine are just hear. Lily Rose Dep. Just Jared Lily. Reinhart just here had lily collins. Just Yard Billy James. Just Lily Aldridge. You don't get little mix no weird mine starts with just jared little mine is also little mermaid just jared even though Liz though gesture Liam Hemsworth Gesture Liam Payne have just jared Lincoln Bio just stare at Liev Schreiber. Who's going to just jared a relief driver news? I mean I guess I am. I was in the village yesterday and I was walking down the street. Oh edged beautiful day. Yes Beautiful Day and I went to the museum and then the and I and I I saw a like very New York daddy like on his bike with two kids and the bike New York. Daddy and I was like Oh. It's a New York. Daddy is trevor because all I want one of my dreams live on his bike with kids on a bike. You think leaves Schreiber well. It wasn't even that the I couldn't even see the. I just think that like I'm my dream. Celebrity citing one of them is leave. Schreiber on his bike because he has that like old school by win the battle. Sometimes they're like kids and the bike but sometimes there was like groceries and the bike and I just WanNa see Leash Reverend about Jerry Jones on a bike which we've talked about so I- every time I see like a daddy middle aged white man on a bike in a celebrity prone area. I I like is Lee Schreiber and I was like damn. It wasn't and I didn't see any celebrities and I got so upset. I didn't see a celebrity but then turn a corner smack DAB until one of the contestants on project runway this season Jeffrey. Wait who gave one. Who has the plugs in his ears? Oh that was him. He was behind the Daddy. The bike He wasn't a daddy with the bike. Now he wasn't the data so you had this thought you were Singley trapper. But you saw the guy that I had run away. This flash of disappointment like Oh. Why can't I ever see celebrities? Then you know that was a good celebrity for me for you for you. Somebody who's like actually very very focused on watching project runway. I mean it's not like I ran into snower Anna Kendrick a camp. That would have been an even better celebrity pitch perfect themed Bachelorette Party which actually was not pitch for more semantics. You hate well. I was just mad because they called it a pitch perfect themed Bachelorette party and I was like. Why are the stars from this old movie? Doing a themed of that movie. It's just it was a lot. It was a lot it was very much didn't actually mean it was a pitch perfect team. No steam was pitch perfectly chosen No no no because they capitalized pitch perfect so they would. It would be implying that it's the movie but I think they called it pitch perfect themed because the stars of the movie pitch perfect. Were there at the party. Which is them they are them. They are the stars. Do you know what I'm saying looking at the party and I was like. Is there anything about this party? That makes it pitch perfect themed other than the fact that the three girls who are in pitch perfect at the Party and the answer was now but the theme was it had a theme yeah it was Bachelorette Party hold on now. I'm confused did have a birthday party. No way should a Bachelorette party but what was the theme. Nothing Bachelor wasn't GonNa theme or no but they called but headlines said it was called. It was pitch perfect themed. Bachelorette party but it was not see what I thought. I thought this was a man dog situation where it was like it was a the theme was a pitch perfectly chosen beam but it was like the theme was like hustlers. Y'All got it was a it was a word play. I thought it was word play. But it's actually just Stupidity Stupidity. It's just it's just stupid shit. News couple alert Beck and sales ex husband. Len wiseman and gossip girl actress. Jessica soldier leave Paris. Hilton's birthday party together. Right Right Wiseman was previously married to ex wife. Dana while Beck until was partner with Mike with actor Michael Sheen until both of their respective relationships upon meeting and working together and underworld so that was a fun fact. That's as and this is boring. I do like I do like that. Kate Beckon Sales ex-husband is getting some headlines about relationships speculation because I'm honestly sort of sick of Kate Beckett cells relationship speculation because she's it's not it's not interesting anymore capex AL advocates also troll. He'd Beckon Sale. Who if you literally said? Hey Is Cape reconcile. Actually working as she actually in anything. Currently I could not tell you and yet I feel like I see her name twice three times a week. Now at this point so often once you just in that What was she was just in that one show? I thought what show. Oh Oh her hut Amazon. Show 'cause we laughed about it but it would out forty years ago a year ago. That's a year ago. I just feel like Cape Beck and sale is so good at getting headlines. Right now she is the Chrissy Teagan of sexy ladies over the age of whatever I don't even know I just looked at her most recent headline and it's from a day ago on the blast where it's at. It says Kate Beckett Tells Bikini Body Clark quote. Illegal in bombshell bathroom shot which has just because a commenter was like your body is illegal. I'm telling you so hot. Date back and sale is somehow just the the I bet if you did like a chart or something. The Name Cape Beckons has risen just steeply in the past year because of sexy Bikini shot also on the blast came back ten minutes ago. Kate Beck and sales shows off to top. Dance moves to banana. Her cat is not impressed. Gave back and sell in a bikini with the cat is too much work. That's too many things. That's all of the trends. That's all of the Internet and went banks. I am searching Cape Beck and sale to see the trend on Google trends. I'm looking twelve months. I'm looking over the past five years. It's a pretty it's a pretty Not much to it. There was a spike when Pete Dave and said Latte Pete Davidson last year. Since then there's been a few spikes be right. It's pretty steady so I was wrong but I just feel I think her name is every year. Her name has been everywhere. Then she's in more headlines I do feel like she's more headlines right although the Pete Davidson roker out of whatever center on a journey because her interest her interest as a news search has gone up since two thousand fifteen but only slightly however if if you put whatever that line and one of these graphs is it would be on a very slow ascent. It has gone up. I think it's just not as extreme as we expected. But it's definitely gone up significantly it's rising. Yes rising good for her good for her. Okay is that all we have. Oh I found this funny thing on read it. I don't know if you wanted to well what happened. Was Elizabeth Chambers hammered? Who is the wife of Armie Hammer? Such owner of a bakery in Texas Was selling her daughters girls on her own instagram account with a slightly up just wipe up to buy INS and it. And it linked to Harper's I think I think all's fair in love and girl scout cookies honestly because I think that girl scout it's like charity so it's like it's like do whatever you want to cabinet. They get awards for it and stuff. There's like it is kind of a competition to yeah but I feel like I was. I don't like this if I like. I said if I were a parent without the swipe punctuality in my instagram I would be annoyed but at the same time I'm talking out of both sides my mouth because when I watched to Beverly Hills I love that Phyllis Organize a big event like a gala for Girl Scout. Cookies to sell those nuggets. I love it she did. That's a little. That's a little different. The girls are still working for that then their mom putting a swipe up in her instagram stories to buy cookies from her daughter right. Phyllis wouldn't do all the work. Gore wanted to sell her daughters cookie she. The cookies are fucking bakery. She has a she has a bakery. Send the daughter out of the bakery sitting the bakery sell the cookies. I love turning on a dime. A million times and went episode has now. I've decided that I'm really upset as Elizabeth Chambers employees. Because it's like oh you are selling cannibalizing. Our profits right. Is that the right word. I'm Sherry. You're selling playing hooky her own own. But she's selling. Yeah you know Barbara corcoran would do Barbara Corcoran. If she had a bakery she would just ramp up promo for her own bakery and be like compete with me daughter. See if you can sell more cookies than I doubt. Business would also give trauma to teach a lesson it. We give trauma but it would also be like the title of her memoir when she was forty five right. This woman would be. She'd become very successful but then she would also be like. I hate my mom that she would hate her mom but then whenever she was in middle age she would go to respect her mom and she would say you know what my mom told me. Good lessons of those little minor. Cookie related trauma when I was a tween related trauma but it made me who I am. Okay I think it's time what was she wearing aware was she seen she posted. Why on Graham? She's the WHO Queen gone too on the fan. What's Rita Ora up to? Who is this woman? Not a Lotta Rita. This week But Rita was okay but I sent you a reader thing really was hanging out with. Cassie David did you see that. Yeah we can put that. We can actually talk about that video. Because that's the best part. Someone asks her if anyone calls her read and she's like. Yeah that's my name. Oh it's that's cassie. Asking her that yeah. I think she's making a joke. But it's also just a weird reveal that Kathy David's their alley. Cassie David is is everywhere. Always weird revealing. I cusi David. You'd want this is actually my job but I'm not going to figure it out. I want to know how CASSIE DAVID AND RITA. Ora crossed paths. Like how did their social circles meet? What was the push who die? Who introduced how did Cathy? David get and Rita Ora spirit. I I mean you and I both know that are you does everywhere and you and I both know the Cassie David was linked to Pete Davidson. Qazi David is a cool girl. Like I notice what I just WanNa know like the specific like. What's the night out that Rita Ora ends up with cassie in Cassie David's with Kathy? David I mean I'm I'm more like custodians up read auras social circle? 'cause you know read. Auras the leader. Yeah it's probably through not through Rita. One of their mutual friends is probably someone. Powell works for Rita right away. I need to know I wanNA know. What the connections if you know. Send us a message. It's probably obvious. And whoever knows is probably like aw of like yes. Rita is fun. We say that all the time but also this is not a joke. Read is very very busy. So the people that cassie would be meeting casually are probably not read. The people that Cassius meeting casualty are Rita's friends. Who Actually Party and have fun me. And then they were like. Oh redesign town we get tummy. Here's the thing that it's also funny. Cassie David's Brand what she promotes herself ask is like antisocial? Awkward Girl. I'm a weird girl and Rita is the opposite of that. She is the Social Butterfly. She is conduct. Anyone you talk to a tree. She could Ciardi all night. She could wake up the next morning and party again. Like that's why I'm a little bit. I WanNa know the connection anyways. Mm-hmm what else. What else did she do? She displayed her incredible absent. A crop top at leggings. Okay what else okay. She displayed a remarkable stomach muscles and a crop leading with match matching liking says she performed throughout a solo hike in L. A. Tines after her tonsilectomy. We're still talking about her tonsilectomy even though it was like to somebody called and said FYI tonsillectomies so painful. So hard not believe it. I believe it to believe it but I thought about it a lot. Read Order makes bold fashioned statement. Is She shows up for toned curves in striped UNITARDS and checkered blazer. Sounds Nice Yeah and then? She stunned sunbathing string bikini. That was way too small. That was not too small for her. They fit her. That's supposed to look like yes. That's also I think one of the bikinis. We talked about last week with the really lick substantial under boob. I just hate when people are like rewards bikinis don't fit in. It's like honey. That's how she wants to fit. Then this is my favorite one From the inquisitor remorse Zell's and a see-through brawl at as she tries on a shirt quote. I hate shopping. It's annoying and there's like photos of her at like what looks like a like a luxury brand fitting room and she's posing so someone else's in the fitting room with her and she's like all holding she has her brawl at on but then she's put putting on like a sort of a see through blouse that still has the tags on it But she's like Kinda posing putting it on and it's a carousel and she's like oh I can't get it on. I'm like putting it on and it's weird and the caption as I hate shopping. It's annoying okay. Thank you for listening to. Who weekly balls and quitter and facebook's Bro. Some patriots dot com slash weekly for weekly bonus episodes and a several daily episodes per week like short little mini episodes and Rate rivers and Apple. Podcast we've got some good ones lately like one up. Just make even better ones call in sixty nine who them sleep questions. Comments Concerns for Friday episode. Who's there and go to our website to buy tickets for our show in DC. At the end of March. I believe March twenty seventh. It's so excited. It's kind of a fun one offs. It'll be wacky. It'll be a fun little off why we love DC. Yeah okay have a good week by you know sane. Today's episode of brought to you by the CW watch new episodes of Katy keene. On Thursdays at eight seven central which ultimately is eight Pacific. Think about it or what. Does that make it a mountain? Don't you dare or stream free the next day on the CW APP?

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1858: The Power Of No

The Black Guy Who Tips Podcast

1:53:02 hr | 1 year ago

1858: The Power Of No

"I listened to the black guy who tips cast because arrive in care in our hot don't be mad because I don't come around the way like us to our don't hat time. These days I'll keep him. Busy making power moves. Don't try to adult try to say, I don't remember you you shouldn't let your jealousy show like that. I stopped coming by. Because of the way you act tell them my business to kids. I don't even know you like a daytime talk show, and as blow so you could tell everyone that I'm jerking you. But if you don't like it, take a personal. Hey, welcome to the blackout tells pike as your host rod and caring and we are back on a Monday. Everybody's favourite daddy year Monday after daylight savings. Frank four. What is now? Everybody becomes a night island on Sunday. What I've read I cannot go to sleep last night. I know us we lost our Disney, and I was like, yeah. We did. He try to go to bed. I was like that's the opposite of how that works. But okay, I came into bed later was like, I'm still look, I don't know. What's going on? I went to bed at light. You'll body Phil Lewis nine thirty or some why okay. Yeah. I sleep in mama's like I was trying to force yourself to shut them up. I was like what I'm not going to do is go to sleep, and I have zero problems we're going to sleep. So, you know, it's something wrong. So Muslim with you. Daylight savings mess and everybody I wish they'd get rid of that Bush. I don't know about a Cal. You can find us on itunes, Stitcher. Mattie, just search the blackout typically was five star reviews will read them on the show. You know, it'll be a nice time. We like being praised you like raising us. I mean, it doesn't matter where you from all over the world that we have so many listeners so many fans. It's unbelievable. I mean, honestly, we don't have to fake crowd numbers like Donald Trump. Okay. We just take pigs who's in the crowd. I like to shell show. We won't have to doctor the numbers we have so much love so much love. And we appreciate y'all and it's not fake news fake news, real news. But yeah, you can do all that stuff. And you can leave voicemails seven oh, four five five seven zero one eight six make sure they're two minutes or less. It will cut you off the two minutes that's the machine yard. That's not as we make them rue. Although I agree with the machine. Wrap it up. You can also catch us on the blackout est dot com. Email is the blackout est g mail dot com. We're appreciate everybody takes the time out to do this the Fisher weapon this show is as an unofficial sport is putting at bullet ball. Today's podcast is sponsored is brought to you by a very sexy sponsor. That's right, y'all. Adamant. Is I trying to help you put some seasoning on your bedroom? Okay. They don't want to in round hit with sound Pepe taste now. You'll go to Adam and eve dot com, and they will give you fifty percent. Our of almost any item you Kotei BG WT and they have ton items. Do your blindfold ergonomic pillows touchy want? You're swinging stuff is wing all kinds of things you need to like use a gasoline diesel power into. Rev whatever you need. Okay. David. How stuff did a use a USB plugs? Thanks, Pat, come out on trying to help you get it in any everywhere. Okay. And in addition to that half off, they'll also give you the big oak it which comes with exclusive climax jail and a mini robbery, and it'll help everybody get out in addition to that also free shipping. So you can get your entire order to you shipped to you for free half of one item and the big, okay? What do I have to do to get there on Kotido in the checkout box? That's all asking you to do. Okay. Three chose hill is women's by yourself. The latest. Okay. So you guys take care of yourself men bio lady, something if you are in relationship with a lady ladies if you wanna relation with a later by yourself, and if you wanna relationship which fluid by which still okay gives them sole ties to your own self is trying to say go to Adam dot co TV, not get all the stuff. I just talked about play me, the Angelo. All right. Let's get into this show show. I do have to give a little bit of a warning up front. Those been made aware to me today. We make a lot of jokes guys. We do a lot of jokes. I always tell people is not say space people say rise say space is not it might be inclusive. But it's not say because they be joked, you never know what to say. We don't know. We're gonna say we show doubt. This is live. Okay. The jokes is jokes. Let's do it live. We always say tomato show is not wrong funny. Okay. People say ri- humor punches up and does down. I say, well, that's what you believe. That is actually not my belief system. Those are your believes people say certain types of limits. Never funny. And I say that that's your belief system. That's not mind. Nope. Okay. I laugh at the jokes when it comes towards me a labrador does when it's on black shit. Fucking black people. We laugh guest the race. We laugh articles of people die hard higher. Really? We laugh come on. So my eight barbarka them and the baby we laughed. Yes. I it was unbearable the jokes. Tour to a VAT of acid, we laughed now. The disclaimer outta add is if these people are your friends that died. What the fuck you doing laughing at the other eighteen hundred episodes. 'cause those people furnace to okay, let's get it to this show. Okay. We gotta talk about I got one reign of that. Onto. Okay, gophers and as far ju. Yeah. Okay. Well, my is not really random thou- is just defect that you because we talked about earlier you had bought me a massage massage and shout out to me haddish, Tiffany. Yes. And I haven't had a massage in hot man it, and I thank you so much. But I wanna tell you I went and the massage was so good like, I just melt it away. I don't know what techniques she was using. But it just made my body just relaxed because like up in my right showed blade is kinda was the not. And I could feel it get really hard and really tight man at the she finished. I can move my arm around and stuff, and she was making my muscles twitch. And all kinds of shit. My this before. Yeah. Amy trying to work offered a group on Monday because they trying to get you to come back without the groupon. Yeah. Pay full price shit. I might in my request, and is one no things where particularly if they can I am you not people go tend to head it. I'm not tend to hit it. So my and also my body. I can do a lot of pressure. So she was like you won't hard. Soft medium albums, lie hunted. Go go hor go hall, real hor. Honesty, went hor, and she got out a bumps and lumps and everything else and Affeldt brand new, and it was one of those things where I don't know. Will you don't I know foot for you? You don't do massage. But I love massages, and it's one of those things where. She was just hitting rice, boss. On his. Maybe like a brand new. Glad I'm glad to win win ROY at the guy. Jordan a lot more. She was working hard. But I was enjoying homework at hard on my body. You're going to be hard on the body, man. I I was gonna say I'm officially oh now because I would to play basketball today and got in there and kind of long and people were weirdly setting up teams. And she does it was just one of those days, and we all yeah. One court knows probably like twenty people in there. So, you know, for for when you only have an hour to play as Kali man, this shit, don't go, right? It's gonna be wack the whole time. And, you know, do I really want to sit around and wait to play more than one. It's in play with the same people. You know, all that stuff. Anyway, I just signed to list when I came in. And I was in the second game or whatever. And with a bunch of people. I didn't really know. And there was this dude on my team that was so bad. He wouldn't not handle the ball. So he was driven out the court every time. Okay. He and I wanna say in the for we play like five minutes of the game and our team had no points, and he had like five turnovers. All he was five. I called him the one on five guys. He just kept dribbling in the people. People will be wide open. He would dribble into doting turn the ball over. Again. Jill Dougherty turnabout over again, because they don't you know, my first I was like, hey man pass the ball. Somebody else should have the ball. And then he gave it to another. Do you run point? I do not a good point guard this site. What what the fuck is is being like y'all y'all know just get about me and move, you know, let's play ball or whatever. Anyway, this happens for like four or five minutes that we that this happened each time. I'm just like what what is happening. You know, this is a bad day from I could already see the way today was said why we're gonna lose? Then I'll to sign up again, then I'm be on the team with these Negga game. And then we're going to lose again. And then I'm gonna need to leave. I'm only gonna get to play like once or twice. I've never gonna really get any exercise. This is going to be here and turn the ball over over and over again and. I did the older shit. I ever did in my life. I literally walked out to court put my clothes on walked out. I didn't even say nothing. No, I wasn't. I would you do and take you asshole come out come out. One thing about old people people don't give a fuck what you doing when the potty over overnight will take home. I just seen the pattern too many times. And I was like man, this is out to be a waste of our my life. Right. Those things I could do when I get home. You know? So I'll just let me go home and clean up. And I started thinking shit like all might try to cook. Or something like that. 'cause I know you're not gonna get my blood pressure up. You know, man, you know, and I didn't argue with him or nothing. I mean, he should have the appropriate amount of shame. I'm assuming. Honestly, if you haven't haven't the shame at the two or three turnovers, you don't got enough. Shame me because I would've ashamed if I turn the ball over four five times in a row, I would've been like, oh, I shouldn't be playing basketball one of us needed to quit and having to be me. But I think he should acquit. But I just to the other way out spent my time listening to crime time crying crime town season to podcasts on Spotify because that's a good bio cast acts what you're going anything a few people like what you doing? I put on my as walked LeBron James. Are John Schwartz. It me y'all seen was happening on the court. I'm not crazy. You know, y'all. See y'all see zag what the problem is. I like, I didn't talk shit. It wasn't even about getting an argument. 'cause I think a lot of men wanna fight, but I don't really like fighting people about shit like now, it's just like the blessing of age is announcing things coming in ways that I didn't want when I was I going through shit, right? And you know, it's something I talked about, you know, I've been talking about for year two which is trust in my instincts on folks, you know, just you see these patterns, you see people that you know, they live in turmoil or they consistently are fucked up and everything around him. It's about time you like oh one day that person's share is gonna try to like leak into my plate. You know, what I mean, like, they're macaroni and cheese are gonna try to touch, my collar, collar, green, juice and problem. I don't want that you know. So wins the divide. Right. So I'll start by my place, pre divided, you know, and that's the kind of thing with stuff. Like, this is I've been I've been through this rodeo before why go through a day of frustration playing basketball. I can come back tomorrow and play with two courts and a different team. And be just fine thing is you don't mind losing. You just wanted to be fun. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just playing with stupid people. So I was like, okay, cool. They don't know. They're stupid. Ain't nobody told them they play stupidly. And you like, you know, you taking the fun out of this. Right. Yeah. And it was an like, maybe he really thinks he's good. Or maybe he thought that wasn't that bad or maybe that's just the worst day his life or whatever. But either why it didn't need there. I'll me didn't even be part of my stores. So come on. I just put my parents back on my own coat, and like all right Seattle mall, and we're home, but I ride. Roger Roger hit them. Get Joe head and co. But this out that is one thing about getting older you will do that. I've done that before. I'm like a ninja in certain situations, particularly like family functions. I won't eternal turnabout. I'm going this is look around. And I just be out. I'm like, I don't have to be here. My time is very valuable, and I don't have to do any bullshit outta won't do right. And also just the basketball court were a lot of dues do they show out. So like somebody, and then they start like yelling that or you know, they say something that's going to start like a conflict month coca pass the bar or whatever. And I thought about it for a second. Like, you know, I mean, obviously, he should have passed the bars fucking miracle. We was only down like four zero or whatever other team for some reason wasn't scoring on us even with turn the fucking ball over every other play. And I was like. Now. A day. Let somebody that won't to try to fix whatever. This is deal with you know, and I went and got in the car went home. And it was just it was just a milestone for me because I I've never done that before. I'm proud of. I was just like, you know, what I'm I got another rather than be frustrated for two hours. Let me just go home and spend some time playing assassin's creed and killing people because you know, also, you realize that Yotam is that's one thing about getting old. You realize you ain't got to do a goddamn thing. You want to do? Yeah. No matter how much people big plea in. I don't wanna go dammit on night, going quit asking me, and you know, and sometimes depend on the situation in the harass. You know, sometimes you have to get down right nasty when negative be like bitches said, no, you don't wanna do that. But because they want because they won't respect, you know. And and also to older I've gotten I realized that this power in. No, you know, once I realized that this. Power Indo, and you have to respect my no, I don't need to give you an explanation cause you ain't my boss, and this is my free time, and and I'm not held accountable responsible. And there's no report or Email attached. It is no I said, no why. 'cause I said so goddamn, and that's the end of it. Before. Yeah. TPS before one of them reports. Not that they've reme- like I can see patterns and stuff like conflict things, you know, you just live long enough. And then like, I I'm not joking man. I think it's the thing that people that are not there yet. Probably just really don't understand. But turned forty for me was a big like, oh, this is a waste of time. There's other things that are important. You wanna talk to me nasty. Cou you want to lie about me. You wanna you wanna get mad angry and blow up in my face. Like if you're not gonna do shit to me. That's you're right. Leave me the fuck alone. Like, I don't have to participate and going back and forth with John. And that saved me a lot of time heartache, and I mean, it like are they a lot of people say that kind of stuff, but they don't mean it like they like to come across like also important. I'm so big. I don't know. I just feel like I don't have anything left approved the people like. I try to prove to myself every day of like what I can and cannot do and the and attendance that I live by you know, this shit where you gotta live or other people's approval, an honest. I don't care about any of this. Is you drive yourself? Nets. A lot of my twenties was because you still running yourself was not knowing who you are time to adapt. An adjusted trying to be accepted trying to. Being social circles and shit like that. But you know, what one thing about once you get old you'd be like, well, I can't speak everybody. I know for me. I always been a loner. So me being alone by myself does not bother me. So it's okay. If I'm not with the crew I'm never to click. I'm I don't have to being yoyo crew. A you know, I am content going to the movie monster from being by myself. So I'll still it's not even just a loan. Don't talk about being a resolute in like your principles. It's not like it. That means you have to stay in the long code. But it doesn't really mean that a lot of times. I don't I don't find myself to really be out on a on a bridge myself when I I what I really find that more often than not the stuff that we're voicing on this show. Resonates most people, even if they're quiet, you know, it's not like they might not be a very vocal group of people this writing all the time. I'd be like you feel just like you. But it's a lot of people that feel like us. A lot of stuff, you know, where if I is this conflict worth it is. Battles. You know, is this friendship worth dealing with relationships. You know, I'm very open, honest and authentic authentic about stuff. But I still only share what I'll feel comfortable sharing, you know. It's not like every time. I have a gathering of my friends, I'll taking the fuck and picture for the internet opposed to be like, hey, y'all look me, and my friends together, you know, but it just might anytime. I'm not I at I mean, right. You know, I go to the basketball court talking about with the homeys like every week or two, you know, get up with my friends and shit. But. That's not for everybody. You know? So it's like a whole like there's there's this like principles of stuff that you have or that. I have that. I think a lot of people have that is not something you really necessarily throw around. Right. 'cause like, it's not news. Hopefully, everybody's living this, hopefully, you know, we can all relate to the idea of some shit's days off line or some shit of is not important. And so, you know, there's friendships I've made online, so I'm the closest friendships I've ever had friendship saying there's you know, there's other relationships that soured online, and I'm like, oh, that's because you can't really know somebody from just online. So anyway, all that to say man, like the maturity of it or the growth of it or just not give a fuck of it, whatever it was, man. I never done that before. I was like I'm not investing anymore, motions it to what to have like this is going to be a bad day. I'm obviously frustrated obviously wasting my time I go home. My car with gas runner Aaron or two and take my the house. So. Plus, I don't have another person schedule I have to live by necessarily site. You know, I can go back home and be like I'll just try to play basketball tomorrow. You know right now. So one thing about me, particularly would be getting node one thing about me. I've realized that whenever I'm off the clock. That means is my time. And I get to do whatever I want to do with my time. And that's why the older I get I am really into. I don't wanna do it. I'm not doing it because I'm not paid to be here. Yeah. I've always been like that. But that's kind of a new experience for you. Because it really you're very much more like a people pleaser. I feel like I'm relationship perfectionist for the most part. But I to learn what is a relationship. It was not because I think you know, after you get as you have social media. She gets word. He started being like, oh, this is a relationship. But it's not, you know, this is social media speeds it up, right? Right. Right. But, you know, also just in general like they're starting ten is relationship. You know, how much I know about your family. What kind of do we talk about, you know, all our interactions in public? I'll our interactions on social media for everybody to read that's not necessarily relationship. No offence to people that that's the kind of relationship we have. But it's not the same. As like, you know, a true friendship or something like that. And that's fine. There's no, disrespected shifts. But it takes like, so my no was I always love. No. 'cause no to me is the real power. And it's also the thing that tells the truth between people I tell you know. And then all of a sudden you started taking shots at me. Oh, okay. So I didn't wanna do blank and our ninth shit. And you're the greatest, and I'm the worst, you know? And I and I and I've gone back and said this before luckily for my brain, maybe it's a bad thing. Maybe it's a good. But I think it'd be good. My brain is said, well, I don't really believe people's compliments about me. You know? So, you know, I don't internalize them. It's nice. But I recognize they can change on like that. I can say one thing they disagree nine shit. So for me, I think that has always been something that no of I don't wanna go do this. I don't wanna go to this party. I don't wanna go to club. I don't wanna go to St. like, you know, I. That has not been thing that bothered me. So I just make sure to keep that up. If anything I was pushing myself a couple years ago to say, yes, this shit that I normally wouldn't which was good. It really taught me out boundary. Right. It taught me about what they are. Yeah. It taught me about fear, overcoming fear. Right. It caught me about being uncomfortable. I mean, and I mean, I'm still learning, you know, everyday, you learn something, but you know, that no though, it was always there. You know, there's been good to watch you kind of learn appreciate the value because people will run you ragged. And we're now when a position where we don't really necessarily know who's fucking with us for what reason right, right? And in this process to shift through things and like. Like Roger say for me, the mo- most of my youth was spent being a people pleaser started from a really early age. And so, you know, twenty thousand went through situations where I was used and abused and all this stuff, not physically, but, you know, embarrassed different ways. But you'll time and your money is stuff like that. So, you know with a lot of heartache and pain and not really understanding and blaming myself. And you know, but I got to the point that I'm glad I went through that. Because now I'm like you had boundaries were. And I know what my batteries are now, and I used to think no was a bad thing. 'cause I was brought up Dickel being a female. You don't even you know, saying no was not lady like to tell people they know. So for me. It was hard to get the strengthening backbone say it mean it and stand behind it and follow through with it. And now I'm to the point that I can do that. And I think that is very shocking to people when they realize I said, no. And I missed it, you know, and I said no in the next time you asked me is going to be a no again. And the thing is the me it to growth, it took courage because for some is some people's their personalities know their personalities always been no much fun. It's just a part of my personality was not like that. So for me, no head to be learned. And a lot of those people don't understand the kind of the personality thing that people don't opposite in the spectrum. They don't understand that. And so. I have learned that you know, my words have power my words have thority, and you have to respect that. And like you said that's the plot of that growth and getting older, and I'm glad that and I do think 'cause this Yabe forty. So I do think once you get to a certain age you've kinda live several versions of yourself. You get to the point that you go. Okay. I like this version of myself because I know I was still adapting to Justin changing growing. This is not my final form. But you know, for me, I'm glad that I'm here. And I'm glad that you was just like, I'm not going with my Tom. Yeah. Definitely there's a lesson. But something I'm thankful for the second thing. Random thought that I had to was if you not only teasing your baby's face. Do you even love him? My how many got perfectly good babies and perfectly good slices cheese sitting riding your refrigerator, and you won't even upload a video of you on teasing baby's face. Your baby is gonna feel real left out when they get to the eighteen years later when the video's going around the world, remember, the cheese and Nagel be old enough to watch TV and be like, why isn't my video? You know, how everybody was doing ten years on Facebook thankful. Okay. That's a child think. I know if I found my parents dunno cheese and my face when everybody was doing I'll be like, are you even in my life? Even my real parents. You know, that's just disrespectful honestly, did not be on tees and your kids face right now. Especially when too young to remember. It'd be a good. It'd be a good surprise next time. They fucking, you know, complaining being ungrateful. You know, though, that shit up their record record all the when they get old, and they try to buck on you bad on Facebook or something just be like, oh, so you grown. But remember when I do that teasing face you bitch ass nigger. You didn't do nothing say something about that. That's what I would do. Happy. We y'all see wa cheese to visit and first of all. Crafts angles are not as miss. I'm sorry. I know that they're not doing a good. They're not doing this to you. I hope that's not classes to say. But I feel like you can go to a dollar store and get you some Kraft singles now come on now. Secondly, if you ain't got no expensive teas all your baby's face. The maybe you need to work harder at work. Okay. Maybe spending your money. Wrong. Okay. You can go into daily ask for one slice. You ain't got to ask for a whole pound or haven't found quarter found this ask for one slice. I get one slice Swiss cheese. Do you gotta be twenty cents, sir? And all that shit on they face. I don't understand. Why why why you hating bre sound like excuses to me? But that's just my take on things. Let's see what's in the news. Brothers who allegedly helped Jesse small let's day to tax Bill taking advantage of by someone. They trust. So. This statement don't tell them that they are on camera buying hate crime. The hate crime kit. Start APAC hate crime starter pack, y'all got the hate crime one o one kid with a maga- hats ski masks like what what? Would you talk about how you take? How you doing who got y'all beat the nigger up? I mean, even if you wanna say we beat him up because he asked us to use deal. Did that par if you're saying that you were part of the hoax? Right. You're admitting that you beat this man up. You knew he wasn't going report y'all beat him up. You're saying you took money to beat him up. How you used? Am I know like y'all going around like full force definitely was not using? What are you like? Part of the accountability. Man. This is a horrible thing. We did we shouldn't have been involved. They showed up and just a her full force. Keep peace town talking about from house party any kick in any of those that will not end is looking like. I think a force that was looking like down like, wait. Who was there? Not force. I don't know. I just know full force was a singing group. Okay. I know make sure I didn't take that. Maybe it was the force MD's or some shit. Well, full force the house party. But yeah, the same. Yeah. Yeah. They're saying one. Okay. Okay. So they design group people. Yeah. So they showed up ready to with Jerry, curls. Somebody asked come on tell him awesome. I know I can understand saying I regret it. I get that you won't say like I was involved in are actually regret being involved in this shit. This shit was really stupid and fucked up and I'm sorry. I wanna go to jail cool. But then it'd be like he used us is, unfortunately, a very complicated relationship for them. Because if you are friends, and I'm saying, hey, I'm gonna pay for training. I've also asking you to do me a favor in favor of the stage attack sheiks way. I guess. This is their lawyer something. Yeah. That's. This isn't tire thing. I don't know what to make of it. Every every day. Some new hip hop up. And I'm like, okay is this serial, Mike? What is happening? What is next week's episode have? Fox News strongly condemns house Janine Perros comments about Muslim congresswoman. They do not reflect those of the network, and we have addressed the matter with her directly say the networks they night. We don't believe you need more people. Fox News talk about this. A lot of Islam. Phobia does not reflect what we believe about Muslim community. We strongly condemn the name Perros comments about rep a Representative Ilhan, Omar they did not reflect those network. We have dressed matter. What her directly? I think today trying to clean up because they democratic. Nash, the people that people are democrat critic was that the not the convention, but speaking stuff that they do day debate. It was like we not fucking going. Do Fox News. Like, we crossing flock news off the list. I wish you don't have to act like we got some sense. But I hope they do that. I hope they'd be like fuck ya'll because you're not a real news channel apparently Pero who host Saturday night show. Oh hot spot. Slot on the TV Saturday night. Eight pm. Backlash saying Representative Omar is issue RIA compliant as practice sharia adheres behavior by wearing a he's is her adhere to this doctrine indicative of her adherence to sharia law, which is enter to the US constitution. She asked. She attended to address criticism on our show sat Sunday night. I've seen a lot of comments about my opening statement from Saturday night show, and I did not call. Representative Omar un-american site in. What did you say? Just as you know, she's asking questions put, of course, you know, Fox News. You put a question Mark next to that? It's not a statement. No more. You know is Barack Obama a secret Muslim terrorist? You know? You know, when people in acts, sometimes people say she at Uber like that is the statement on you raised in. We were like. Still a statement not a great. They just a question Mark on the in. My attention was to ask a question started debate. Oh, one of those which is asking questions. But of course, because one is Muslim does not mean that you don't support the constitution. I invite Representative Omar to come on my show anytime discuss all the important issues facing America today. Fuck I we know they loved they love she didn't know you, and it'd be like, why don't you come clean? Going if a fucking ratings so you can cut me off lease nappy with me fly. This person is a Muslim terrorists that Hayes the constitution. But I do welcome live spirited debate. She's welcome to come on show anytime it'll be I'm sure it'd be a very fair balanced discussion. So yeah, Fox News. Not talk bad about their people very often. But they had to say something they didn't have to say nothing. That's why I think this has something to do with them trying to clean up the image to get that money. It in that you'd think they would have Gable. Fuck any other time of the year? She'd all yeah. I'm gonna go with. No, I'm gonna say they would not care any other time of the year care. I'm being I'm on your side on this. Yeah. I'm plus how far do you got to go to even be offensive? Why shoots? Some I live on is still say give you an excuse. Like is getting to the point like when you have people just starting phrases spirited debate. Let's have a conversation. Gotta see both sides. It's certain words and phrase words that people like to use it. They don't mean, let's civil let's be civil about it and shit like that. I'm to the point now where we're not starting in good faith, or we're not starting at the point where everybody sees everybody humanity. Why does no conversation to be had their point? Yeah. I think also. For people like that is. Trying to think of the best way to phrase it because I don't feel sympathy for them. But it's something where I feel like put it this way. I understand how to get confused 'cause they go on TV, and they say offensive shit every night, right? And then one night out of every four years, Fox News. But too far. But I guarantee you if you made a montage of her statements about Muslims for the last five six years. I guarantee you this is just one in a long line of shit that she said that we would like that is various Lama phobic. And this time they chose to go. We're not with to shit, right? And guarantee you some of the other she says probably worse than this. So that's why I said money's I stick. That's the fucking care. So speaking of caring mega McKay breaks down in tears. On the view because they started talking about. Her I will leave. It was father's. Oh. Her party selective? Outrage about anti-semitism. 'cause I mean, you gotta consider they won't ill. Omar thrown out of out of her out of her office. They're like cheese is these anti-semitic. They're the party of white supremacist. Right. White supremacist hate Jewish people to just as Jewish people pass as white does not mean white supremacists. Cool with Jewish. We know they are not even key. Steve king, Trump all these people hate Jewish people to so to then try to be like a Parsi on some like, there's no no they have no business calling out Omar as antisemitic while also have housing white nationalist in their party. So they had like a little both sides. Right. Yeah. This is she was a really intense one for me and just bear with me. 'cause I know sunny you, and I am particular don't always agree on this. And I want to say, I am most anti semitism shouldn't be a left-right issue. I don't think we should be politicizing it on either side because as we know what? T- toward person in Charlottesville. Thank Jews will not replace war. Had Barry White's on to talk about sort of these. A more dog with all moments that in my my view Ilhan, Omar is doing and she as Saturday hadn't been able to have gone fifteen days without saying, something anti semitic. What's interesting about this is that she is an up and coming rising star in the Democratic Party on the cover of Rolling Stone magazine right now, she fits a lot of boxes. The Democrats like she is the first of all elected member of congress for the first woman to Muslim women elected to congress. And she's the first minority woman to serve from Minnesota. And the problem is right now is there's pressure to support her within the Democratic Party because I definitely politics and intersection allergy is something that is important to democrat. And I think this this Pacific moment, this is over shed moment for Democrats a lot of Jewish people in this country are are being asked with the rise of anti semitism in this country. Is it more important to defend party, politics or is important to defend anti semitism, and he can? Joy Behar is. And she's on the view as well. So it'd be interesting to see what she says. Republicans trying to act like this beacon for Jewish people. But the Ali really fuck with down. Yeah. And and the thing is the thing is killing me. You basically said she's the first is I is. I is. I is. But then you turn around and say, it's I didn't politics fucking you talking about right? Also washy the first about the problem is she's the fucking for right, Washington. I that's the problem in a country. She's the first person to ever get this job in this country. But we're not asking like what's wrong with the country that this is now the first twenty nineteen right? You were saying what's wrong with her? That's how. I'm trying to play does to think try to load or something. So just give it a couple of hours and. Get right back to it. Anyway. And thing about her. This is what Jim Collins daughter, right? John McCain right thing is if you're going to be distance details about shit about your daddy. And is this is Richard will have to deal with because people ain't gonna let it go. You own show that kind of talks about the shit. This of the day you've got to deal with it. Like, that's the part of the gig all day long about how you feel about of Israel politics. Yes. Gives me the object to it. We have a conversation all day long about how you feel about Palestinian politics. So bad is really politics. How you feel about Netanyahu? But in the same way that I fear what's happening with Corbin. And UK I fear that it's seeping. It's way over here in the United States. And I just present this question, which may be an uncomfortable one. If what Ilhan Omar has been saying for the past few weeks before said by a white Republican Vail what how would you be reacting to it right now? I mean for me, I jet to it. No matter who says it. I am asking the pro. The thing that a why they always concentrated on Israel's what I'm wanting to know there's a little tiny place apart in the world. I mean, she's from Mogadishu does she object to things they do there. I'm assuming she does and Yemen and Libya and Syria and all the hot spots all over the world. And yet seems to be the focus of a lot of people around the world, including the UK, and here, Israel, Israel, Israel, and why why that particular country it's very suspicious to me that I said that I one hundred percent agree with you on that. And I think that we should be talking about human rights violations, globally everywhere in Iran, gay, people can be thrown off of buildings for simply being gay women can't retain tops in things. Don't there's human rights violations going around globally, and I agree with you my questions, Illinois, joy, Betty Arcata wit with the what about you know, what about everywhere else, and I find these comments to be edge semitic as well. At least according to what she said. She said she'd object to it. No matter who said it. So that doesn't sound like she got. Omar's back on that. But like, I said, I knew Omar will have controversial because you know, people say Twitter is not the same thing as say the mainstream news. So there's a cost to be paid for saying this shit, why specifically this area of the world why specifically this group of people and just just putting a button on this filibuster. She is on that committee of relations committee that will be in charge of what happens globally with our diplomacy. I'm uncomfortable with that in the same way that I was uncomfortable with Steve king being on that question. Joy. I think we should talk about the com. Oh, okay. Well, this is that load. It is funny though, when when I'm fit that she made that has spurned all of this discussion, right there, many many comments, but the comment that she made that we're talking about the resolution has come from. She said so for me because she she has apologized for the other comments for two of the couples on crusher to apologize apologize. So the comment she said was so for me, I want to talk about the political influence in this country. That says it is okay for people to push for allegiance to a foreign country. And I want to ask why is it? Okay. For me to talk about the influence of the NRA of fossil fuel industries or big pharma and not talk about a powerful lobby that is influencing policy. That's what she said. And people say that that is anti-semitic when we had no let me finish. When we had Barry Weiss on as an expert, and what is antisemitic, and what isn't. I asked her isn't it, okay? To talk about Israel's policies and not be called antisemitic. And she said, yes, she said where it crosses the line is when you say that Israel does not have the right to exist that that is when it crosses the line. Now, Omar has had never suggest that Israel does not have the right to what she has to. It seems to me that Republicans are trying to use this as a wedge issue. I don't know why he's freezing problem. But she got her places. He was like between that you know, you're not gonna keep interrupting me. Right. And I'm the one reading it rather than just going on from our feelings and say what I think because you know, Megan Megan taught real real. Vague. She taught real vague rather than get specific with the comments, and the why is the problem? What is actually makes Omar? Anti-semitic think that not talking about you? You know, this outrage is kind of crazy because I don't think that the Republicans have moral high ground. Here's like damn bit tend to McCarthy has used his this anti these antisemitic tropes. I think the Jim Jordan just recently, and I tweet against Tom stock. And right. Remember that Ilhan Omar in the West Virginia Republican party just had this huge poster. Nine eleven policier with the towers in the background and hurting the in the front, and it said never forget or something like that. As if Herbie being involved in note country's politics means with her taste with nine eleven terrorists. And I haven't heard any outrage about that comes from. Outreach? And I will tell you. I take this very personally as a woman of color who has been the subject of so much filtering. What a lot of people don't know is that my grandfather is Jewish. He's the Sephardic Jew. And so I have my family members have received a lot of bigotry. So you know, I experienced firsthand in my family, anti semitism and bigotry for being black. And so I just told you know. Action. These out. Are we comfortable with buddy? Now. So she offers said Israel has hypnotized the world suggested that Jews in Israel have bought US politicians all about the Benjamins imply that American Jews have divided loyalties, and it's okay for people to push Aleve into a foreign country. I again safe why this obsession with Jerusalem, Israel, why this obsession with this Pacific area of the country. And as you said as you've said many times these are dog with goal comment for poor Jewish America. They are and they hear what she's saying. And then she holiday. Holograms begging that it is disingenuous reply in party to go after her points when they are backing a president who is emoji committed Huber's right violate really. Really quickly talking about about. I take very personally I would go so far I probably for John being Zionist as well. But I will say that. I don't have family that is Jewish. But Joe Lieberman and Lieberman are my family, and I take the hate crimes rising in this country incredibly seriously. I think what's happening in Europe is really scary. It is getting a motive. You support a party? That is part of the reason hate calms are on the rise. Like, Donald Trump this Joe daddy, and you still get on TV and cake for that party. I'm sorry. These white woman. Tears don't do nothing for me saying I mean, I I appreciate her being sad stuff. I'm sorry that she feels that way that sucks, you know, if she really feels like these are her family members, not stuff if that's true at all. But. This like white woman crying and everybody's stop doing what they're doing. And be like, well, I guess we don't need to talk about facts feelings are more important than the motherfucking facts. It's a distraction is a tactic that a I feel like everybody's attacking me. So since will will I wanna talk, and so me crying will stop everybody and make everybody feel fat bad. But the the facts out affects all right? And I said, no, nobody really, I don't know. It didn't move me. I was like, okay. You grind and drying up his napkin. Let's get back to it. Right. Oh, yeah. You know, and for that. But she's real smart smart people don't last night on this show. She's fine. Intelligent. I I don't even give her years should be fucking anybody with any intelligence would have been all these bitches dumb on mouth like most most people is really smart, and they read and research on that show that don't last long because they was like this is dumb, and I'll point one more thing because I've been talking about it for a while. And is one of the reasons I don't really talk much about Israel. 'cause I don't truly understand the ins and outs of the of what can be discussed about it. But joy Behar who allow people have a lot of respect for Jewish woman. She thinks Ilhan Omar's comments were semitic. She's bleeding democrat and all that type of shit. I don't know where to put this stuff. And it feels like nowadays if you say, you don't know something you're not internationally something out of your debt is like the thing to do is jump on you or something. But then if you say the wrong thing the thing to do is jump on you Liga, Terry crews who have been the feminism pool and had never read a book. And now you getting fucked up left and right the chance ain't nothing. I'm Twitter what I fucking up like sometimes the best staying, Elaine. You know? And that's one of the reason I don't really talk about this. Because I literally I'm looking at her comments and being like, okay. If that's true, then I guess that is messed up, and they're like, well, these are strokes ended semitic dog whistles, this is you got Meghan McCain agreeing with joy Behar onus. So there's some level of it that I am not privy to. I I just I know enough to know, I don't know. Yeah. I right. I know what I don't know. And is not my experience. And I'm okay, where people saying, I don't know. I don't know what we live in a society. Now saying I don't know is worse is not giving an answer people treat those things to same in. And they're not the same. I don't know is an answer. But people you know, because it's a catch twenty two. If I talk about she I don't know nothing about and then some shit that I'm ignorant about people say, why did you talk about it in any way within if I turn around, and I go, I don't know people go will you gotta be educated and is to get answer. Nobody knows everything fact, but everybody wants to act like they're fucking expert. I live here in America and told most Americans don't go about the rest of the world because we're just raised Americans in general is America. I you know, in other parts of the world ignorant. Yes. But that's how most Americans are raised. You learn about other positive word as you get older, and as you do research and all that stuff and my bad, joy Behar is not. Jewish. She's Italian Catholic my fault. But go ahead. No, no, just just because somebody's alright later. I don't wanna go through it. So go ahead. Oh, no problem. And so. You know, I feel like it's okay. For me to say. I don't know because I don't know outside of what I know. Yeah. And even with her being like entered semitic. She believes that she not even so she not Jewish as she believes it. I know I don't how to you know, what I think what one of being as a lot of people have is. They look at Twitter, and they just regurgitate what they see on Twitter. As fact, and they just go with people are saying on Twitter, then it's popular or is right. Because things can be popular on Twitter and social media does not popular in real life. And we would agree with in real life. You know, it's one of the things our thought was funny with President Obama. I always go to this example, because he's probably the most median famous black person of our time. But whenever people will be like, why did he just say blank? And I'm like, you can say that to sixteen thousand hours, right? That just have to let your opinion who fuck with you every single day who love what you gotta say for the most part and going to cosign it or not if they disagree. He's not in a position where he's only talking to people who agree with he's talking to her entire country. Many of which do not agree with him right to certain extent. Most of them have a problem with him being black and being in that office, even the liberal ones. You know, this you talk about liberal white people and how to shit all the time. This gotta go there every day and talk to them to keep the country out of chaos, and yet people were basically like shit on him for that. But it's why would now we have a counter example, they took awhile. But now we have some of what happens when really progressive liberal left is people get in power get in positions where their words are now heard by more than just a few people on Twitter or some some people on YouTube like now your stuff is her by everybody and look at this response. It's crazy. Well, you know like you can't detect and there's a lot of moving pieces. You can't detach her her Brown. You can't detach her her her woman. Nece you can't detach her Muslims from any of this backlash. She's getting but you also noted we don't have any politicians talk like this. So this is like this is like new territory for a lot of people. And they the world was not ready for her to say these things. Now, it doesn't matter. Sometimes you. To say shit before the world ready to hear it. Don't matter. The truth is the truth. But it's been interesting to see what the response was because I'm seeing people that never agree come together. It'd be like well, yeah. This is ENA semitic. And I'm like that. That was wow, you know, same thing Marc Lamont hill. Like, and it's it's crazy. I don't know. I don't know. There's so many moving parts of this is, you know, people doubling down on hanging out with Farrakhan. But at the same time one America, the divorce it sell from from Israel light is it's so I don't know how people can make sense of all of that at the same time. Like that. So, but but I'm sure they know better than me. Let's see what else we can do. Pope francis. Just declared a all out battle on clergy sex abuse. Now. Now, Tom, what's the all out battle going be is anybody going to prison, right? If not was was about what you moving to another convent like booed him to another place in the world, y'all might as well be sex-abuse dot com. Like, that's what do y'all are sex abusers that whole church every once in a while as well, we have mass. And then also we abuse we abused a keys, we abuse the nuns have come out night didn't right because you know, for years always been a running theme of Catholics. Abused children. You know, little boys. There's always like the they won't let them be gay. They you know, that that that whole gay shaming slash homophobic, bullshit that people pull away. It's like a pedophile is the same as a gay man that shit. But was not talking about is how many have lived in silence and not spoken out about their views. You know insane. Why? That he would feel like he's in a position to. Well, let me just say this. I hope he's telling the truth, and I hope day serious and this spending to jail and actions. We'll tell yeah, we are dealing with a bomb Annable cries that must be a rice on the face of the earth. Even single case of abuse must be answered with the utmost seriousness. He also say the charge was spare no effort due out. It's necessary to bring to Justice. Nice words that we have no reason to take them series, especially when they come from France's first of all just brief aside. What does he mean by all that has not been doing this already? Right. Secondly, we've heard we was only on a half speed before. But now it's on New Year's resolution. Okay. Now, we've speed new year. New me. Secondly, we've heard these promises before in early two thousand at the Boston Globe uncover rampant sexual abuse. And the Boston archdiocese the cabinet promise vigorous and thorough house cleaning it was not so big as thorough as we were led to believe evidence by reports from Chile, Australia and Pennsylvania further. Let's not forget that it was a disgrace. Now Leah size say they're right. Former archbishop of Washington DC Theodore mckarrick, who led to charges response to the Boston Globe with reporting he served in this capacity, despite it being known for years within the church that he was a sexual predator worse than a cruel joke of known sex past head heading the response. The Boston clergy abuse scandal is the fact that McCarrick went on to flourish in the Catholic church rises, so high become one of France's top allies all this even at the pope, America's been a dick the X v. I said to file room run into those say two of to the fourteenth to impose strictures on the now disgraced cardinal. The fact that McCarrick was also was able to thrive under Francis. Despite his sexual predilections being an open secret to church leaders brings us to the second point. Which is that the current pope is giving us reason to distrust him specifically on the issue of addressing clergy sexual abuse sixteenth. Okay. There we go. Sorry. X sixteen close enough when France was accused whereas accused latch, archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano of enabling men who were known to the church leaders the sexual predators, including McCarrick the couple. Chat chatty to a fault. Pope like, I'm sorry. The normally chatting to foul. Pope refused to address the issue of stay of friends dismissed a matter casually saying, I will not say a single word on this. Yeah. Okay. Buildup. Everybody Delaware dash shit. Our to deal, you know, watch myself because I don't think I don't trust him. Let's see what else the guy here. When you factor in family duties to average working mom works ninety eight hours a week. Happily. Yup. Working. Mas MAs in general, don't get enough credit fraud today, do which is pretty much work all the time. Even when they're not getting paid for anyone out there who doesn't understand just how diligent you are. Or why you always look so darn tired all the time. You'll wanna show them this new findings that some of just how many hours you really work a week Wolters recently commissioned a study of two thousand American mothers, which between the ages of five to twelve is. So you're not even talking about the ages, which is like probably the most time attentive. Woo area of a baby's life. Right. And they were saying that. They had a study out those smaller children. They were saying us like six years where for sleep when they're small. Yes. In to get a da- pted adjusted its process. So it's aimed at discovering that is aimed to discover the useful tools. Resource techniques miles us to keep that alive. NFL allows a flow the most down founding was average the average working mom clocks ninety hours per week with our day. Typically starting at six twenty three AM. She doesn't end up finishing her work or family duties until eight thirty one pm. She works fourteen hours per day. Yeah. I mean that's about right? And that's go to bed at that time. And if you count Netease, you know, what I mean? And that's average, you know, 'cause you have some women they get way earlier than that. And they go to bed Willett after that. And if you don't have like a man that like also, not pulling his share, right? So then you gotta take this negative, right? And it's like another child and people want to hear that. But it it really to that woman is like a fucking child because it's like, well, you're not really assisting, right? If you don't wanna be a burden then don't be. So yeah, when it comes to meet on average mom, according to the study says she only gives about an hour seven minutes each day. See as what you get in prison. Our yard time a day. Yeah. 'cause it has to be a lot particularly with you know, when children are smaller stuff like that. And you know, it anywheres you out because thing about mom, your mom all the time. And so that's why a lot of women locked themselves in the bathrooms and shit. Like that. Because that's the only time they can legally be to themselves without somebody else needing a wanting desiring attention. Yeah. Almost why see study just to say see what the man clocked in that. Because I mean, I'm sure it's less time. But I wonder what it is. You don't mean because I see you work. That's your forty hours a week or whatever. But then like how much stuff at home adding to that? But also kids man a lot of work day really aren't people under instant debt in and people underestimate just parents in general, but just away a traditional household goes. You know, it's starting to break in a lot of people are starting to get out of those gender roles. When it comes to to household in like, you do this and do that. But I think for a lot of people they underestimate how time consuming it is like literally you're up before your children. You got to get him up getting ready for school do breakfast. Now this other, you know, type type thing, and then when you don't rest, guess what your your you don't have patience. When you when you don't rash. You get angry quick, you know, these these real because you're you're human being, you know, when you don't rest, you're not able to fully do everything at one hundred percent when you're not properly wristed, but imagine going through all of that stuff. And don't throw a slice of cheese on a baby's face like his. I'm trying to help you out this ninety eight hour weeks. You scared Latif on my face you. Appreciate it later. Just guess that. Meantime, that'd be some good. Meantime, you know, take an extra thirty seconds mega our eight minutes and thirty seconds, or whatever it said it was for for the daily. Meantime, I mean shit, they ungrateful. Anyway, get you get you a video out of no never know. What's gonna happen on the ground? All right. Let's do some black people. With those records for fucking. Blacks. We're just. Black people. That's why God's Tom to play the game that we all hate the play. It's fucking black people the game, we go all around the globe articles to make us feel. I will sign point scores from zero to hundred animals a twenty five today's contestants. It's everybody again, y'all. Hey, they back. All right. Does this stop? The bail was getting out of control. I know who's back in the news for Fogle with black people who. Yes, jove's. Remember white woman would a big ass. She said she had a T shirt one time to say something like some niggers, and she was like, can I guess I could wear this today and everybody was like what you say white woman. Remember those cover don't go black a long time ago. I let me let me Google. But yeah, it was like a Malcolm put it on screen, but it was like a t shirt that says something like. I dunno some awesome niggers like basically it was our way of making a joke about the N word proper to do once. I see. But you know, me don't be remember these people. Yeah. That's probably for the best. W lot of people. Don't remember because I feel like she's also one of those people that bigger deal on black, Twitter and Instagram shit. Probably she should be in real life and in real life. She hopes parties, and she has a lot of people that follow her on Instagram and stuff, but it's not like she's. Taste maker in the culture. No. But it but today about days, we do have to talk about it. Because she kinda she does. I thought his face hip hot. Where I'll go ahead. I'm sorry. Oh, no, Karen, civil I remember I saying that name trending. So this is why the name was trending something with just do person. Okay, cares. Civil Scotty beam. Covers got he being say crazy shit on here before too. And I just don't remember what it is at the time. And you know, agendas on social media flip the fuck up because it's like if two people are problematic, but you like the fact that one of them is like going into other one then for that day. They cool, you know. So I do remember people kinda shitting Scotty being, but maybe they came around or maybe she's changed. It's gotta be debtor. Apple so black woman TV show like personality. I told you know, who these people is. Yeah, I know. No. So yeah, it's year twenty nine fortunately, yes, gills are still paying who wrote this. If I were the so-called influenced our brain took shots care several Scotty bean, and that got internet's to gathering, the culture vulture bio string you ponytail a system wrote this. No last wrong shall do. Yes. Gills Goddard was a guest on the easily offended podcast with murder Mook. It's biscuit and movie, Matt. Young people talk. Isn't a while shares. Never well. I mean, I will say this shell car easily offended going viral for having a clip where people got offend. It sounds pretty on brand. And it is one of those things where there are certain people that really get off on offending everybody. So I mean, I guess in the way they got what they wanted out of it. All right. You know, this I'm gonna play the clip. So I guess they kind of got what they wanted. You know, a lot of people are trying to occupy the like breakfast club lane of life. We just want a moment that goes viral, and they got that. So I mean in a way they kinda got everybody if that's their goals, the sad. That's people's goes. Like, that's the only thing they care about any do. But as you may have noticed those three black man, and yes gills is a white woman yesterday. Tries to explain the reason behind her asking to wear a shirt that featured the end were on the front and then demanded her respect for bringing rolling loud. To providence, which is like a concert along among many other clients fame. Now have these clips, and I will play them for you guys. They're mostly short. Oh shit. Is that? This is she said, yes, Joel says Joe Biden lot. So. Where are you from Miami? I'm Puerto Rican Italian. Okay. So to black news or white, dude. And guess us, and I think that clapping because they want to the black the one black do is super like you'll see is the clips go on, but he's like super excited about having her own and support her, but he's basically trying to be like a white Puerto Rican. So now, she's a woman of color ads not fake and she said word, congratulations. Mistakes. No, I didn't shadow to Joe. But in for lying on his podcast, then bought my house because I didn't he knows. We never got to go to dinner. Joe? I was a little busy when you were hitting me up. But. Wait a minute. Set a one dude is giving her like the fool like def jam stand up and walk away from my seat. You know, this would this white girls, spilling ity. Not through this. This is for real him saying I'm pissed off. Because here's what having Joe at dinner. Joe had me on his podcast. He asked me podcast came on the podcast, super cool. Fuck with Joe he was super team was close team with funding after that. We ended up on. Yeah. My needs some after that. She lied go on to say he tried to like DM her. But you got the peop- the circumstances behind this. This how because she's trying to expose him as he tried to fuck me off. But it's actually fell he owed her favor in a time when she was getting roasted for that inward t-shirt shit all of us like me, and my home that came to the podcast tickets house podcast, or whatever we all went to the city got lunch chilled hung out. And then after that. He would hit me up randomly just like to hang out or whatever. And I was just like never able to hang out. Then one night. I'm gonna movie he calls me three times in a row Giovanni randomly, right? I was gonna do I'm gonna move with a I'm seeing in job butting pops up three times it was like a couple years ago. So so I pick up just in the middle of movie. Just my dude knows like. We're going to go Joe is up. He's like mint. I'm activity right now. And they play me you need to tell your home. They can't be treat me like this calm down. We're happy. Now. I'm about to give it to this cashier. May you better you better? Call Ronnie and told him right now that he's got that. He's got somebody over here. There's about to be. I was like what happened. He's like they won't let me return these weapons, and I was like all right. Let me talk to Ronnie gimme a second. So. I'm. This nighttime in a movie he's having three times about some four hundred page. So listen to call Ronnie Irani, you know, I hate about you about this Ronnie is to Jewish man. He hates he hates drama. He's in bed by nine o'clock. He's got his wife don't care about any of this, cloud shoot. So I'm like, can you do favor men and just call the book of those store in civil and let them and told them to let Joe in return those weapons over another Thomas little in SoHo Ulker giving rock. Rock brownies. Like, are you serious? I'm like, please. Just do it for me. So he's gonna call you back boom movies over running back. Joe's my store clerk, just sent me a screen shot of a picture of Joe wearing this what pants outside his stoop at his house. And I'm like what finishing sends me the picture jobs wearing the sweatpants. So now he makes me crazy 'cause he water swept in. He was. Yeah, I want to picture I didn't like them. I'm trying to return message. Oh, I can't like you know, what I'm saying. So yes, so basically ever since then we didn't really like converse after that. Right. And I thought he was a clown. So after that. This thing. I I know why. No because nobody Jones cool, no way. Obviously, it's the funniest thing. He's ever heard over reacting a white one would've fed every black man's weakness. Gang himself. He gotta have good night. Is it is this why we the weakest? Yeah. So that's the shirt, right? Tweeted the shirt, and I said I'm about to wear they are shareware this tomorrow. And there was like me hoping that he was the and know that I'm mad at him because I'm slows about niggers lie is shirt some about niggers lying as she tweeted that to everyone not just the Joe button, not insane. How he was he it. So this is all just inside dis to Joe button. And then she got drag for because everybody's like why do I women wanna say nigga so bad because you fuck black dues? I also decision her first rodeo like she's also like the black women and got a problem with me when I come into club because they jealous and so she's done that shit too. So it was not in a vacuum. So people already got it out for her. And if she did this shit. Just wearing a Bill my answering his text. I can't tell them. There was phone stuff. Right. Maybe ten seconds after I tweeted that my whole world fell down. Like literally the pit of my like my heart was in the pit of my stomach, and I just knew like oh shit. Our fucked up like this is really bad because because people she tweeted jus thousand powers in our tweeted, I just I just it was literally a picture of the shirt, and it said show where this to the festival tomorrow. The says niggers LA lot and she put them as a question mart. Should I wear this to the festival tomorrow or not? And then the I mode like I'm looking at something. And let me tell you right there. What that is that is Meghan gate letting her gateway to comfortable that's black man that one of letting her be cool around him because they think they're gonna get some ad because anybody else would have checked that and be like come on, man. You just gonna looks do. But it's not about the principle of light. Because I'm so woke I'm not even talking about that. So I'm y'all got white friends that y'all probably let the N word around y'all. That's y'all's business. But yeah, also go, amber when we out, you know, that's hours. That's our thing. I don't vote for all the other black people. And I also don't say go on social media saying this shit. Also, the like do something for you like how can I have your back on this? Would. I mean looking like fucking cone the emerald like no bitch. You're white. We'll move. It was lit like she put that tweet out with Lyle. Thing on the internet for twenty four hours. I had people like Earl sweatshirt telling people to jump me when I had this was three years ago, I twenty sixteen so that was the first that was the first thing. So then when that happen, then people started creating this narrative of mean being racist, cultural and culture vulture, right? Because first of all people already had that narrative, but they just had nothing to support it with. Well, because they're like why is yes. Jewish hosting rolling up there. Like, it's a hip hop festival. Why isn't it somebody else hosting guess what? Because it's from Miami, the Miami girl, and I've been doing hip hop shows in Miami for five years. That's why you know what I mean. And those are my friends, and I helped him get artists perform I helped him get sponsors and the word you can't win the work. That's one hosting, you know, so people feel that I should not be in certain positions in this community or cultural getting back von Scotty bean on Karen civil on a lot of people feel that action doing what I'm doing. It should be them. Instead, but we all do black women. She made this you tried to make it seem like the problem with jealousy. Not the sheet. She said. That like this is the kind of gas. Why shit that people do you know what I mean in positions like this like I'm not saying there's no elementary jealousy to some of the shipmate. Right. I mean, I'm not even trying to demean her work. She may have really put in. I'm sure she put in some work. I mean, like, you know, the whole Instagram's Ted I mean, we're going to respect the other people that have made it up for Instagram and made a life of their we're gonna respect Cardi. We're going to make the car. Dash is it we're going to respect, you know, all these prominent people that have gone from Instagram to begin like English everyday, names and shit. I get why you you know, she might feel slighted that people didn't respect their work. But that's not all it is to you know, like, it's not like every white woman. Got this problem. You know, what I mean for white women and hip hop. Ain't got this issue baby. Right. Like every white one was walking around is just like. Yeah. Man. You know, everybody hates that white woman. It's just starting wounds. You say certain she you demand. There is the the. The even affect tation of the name, guess, gills disease and shit. Like, I get why people like, yeah. Man. Man, something about her like doesn't rub rub me the right way. And then she also happened to be like Nikolai light. And of black women be looking at me in the club. And it's why. Are we really sure the problem? Not you. Very different things carried you not do the same thing. I don't get out of dinners at the time. I don't give a fuck about doing a radio show every single day. My interests are different from Scotties. My interests are different from theirs. But I enjoy giving people experiences I enjoyed hosting stuff. So anyway to ask a question, they're like, do you think that you did anything before that to give them a reason or? Still here I'm gonna give. So when I was nineteen. Why stop there? Let me go to the next left in. Maybe they'll explain it there. But. Yeah. Like, she's she's planning to make them. Never. Did you grow up around black people you grew up? How did you just a bunch of kids in there? Like, there is black people Spanish. Qinglin school. Like, I started. I moved to Boston. When I was when I was eight from eight to twelve I was raised with white people world when I left Boston and went back to Florida. I was back with Hispanics and black. One of those things where it's okay to like, how movie saying Puerto Rican this, and that it's okay for certain people as say until it ain't though what this I want to. That's why like like. Care. I don't wanna say, and I'm like, that's not my my thing. So here's the thing. When that t-shirt tweets talking about nigga. Right because I have been on his podcast. I reached out to Joe I text message. And I said so are we said, listen, I feel like I looked up, and I want your opinion on how I should approach this because I didn't I personally didn't type it say. So really don't feel like I was offended anybody. But I get what people are funded. How should I approaches and then? He didn't write back. And then since he went on Twitter and was like this bitchy as Joel Bouma will vote his girl. So I guess his girl that I reached Tanna that's Joe buzz girl wife now thing that I had reached out to him. But his girl they have a problem with him reaching out to me three times about the sweatpants. But she had a problem with me reaching out to him ask him for his health. Right. So then that's when she went on Twitter and drag me in the that's when he decided to go make a whole the yes, gills debacle podcast for forty five minutes where he said and claimed that I got surgery because I want to look like a black woman. And that's what he said in his podcast from there that really snowballed the whole narrative of yes, Jews wants to be XYZ or is XYZ. So first of all are never surgery in my life. My body is my body of have my body's way on believing altering myself God made perfect perfect. That's it. Second of all have no problem with people who get surgery, there's Spanish when we will get surgery. There's black women who get surgery all kinds of surgery. I think it's it's dangerous women and white women who get surgery yet. The most one hundred percent so hold like, I do get the thing. There are a lot of white women in this country all over the world who are trying to adopt. The features. All right last clip last clip, this has been long, I know still confused. I know well, I I'll try to explain the if you have questions after this. I'll try to explain. I agree. Crossed is definitely more females. But I did you spend. The reason I asked that too. Because even when you said the white he he's trying to find a way to give her a pass for is. He is working overtime to be like, no, no kools. It's all good. How run out the room left to hard. Okay. Breed thoughts. Tweet back then. And it wasn't your words were just using the hashtag of I wonder if that was like a recurring theme that you had to go through as being someone. That's in the white people. Hey act like I never walked into a restaurant with a guy. I'm dating and got some looks from people. You know what I'm saying? Like come help. I'm sorry, Travis actually after the after the t shirt thing having brought me out on on sage when I was like yo shot to get jobs. And that was a big moment because that weekend, I was supposed to get junk shut out to Scotty being. So that migos comes close. No gonna literally people were online like Ademi's there already. When are you going to jump you? So I went to the festival and people were like, even my friend. Didn't wanna walk jump just whatever. Like, no like, that's don't make this. When I see you jumping. We see you we joke. That's yeah. I don't know. So this jump from new ship with engine. Fuck. You're just saying just watch out that it wasn't cool to be my friend. And and there were people ex stood next to me never left my side. He yeah. He he owned wrestling. He's blows gave me his security just in case because he saw like how people are looking at me. Trend but other than that like. I know a lot of people didn't even you know, what's crazy are found out who who I found out people that didn't even know to me, and I found out people were my best friends were trash so like literally people who's ready. Trash if you got offended by her especially she the victim. In is a anyone that fell any kind of way about it is trash. She did nothing wrong. And I'm not saying is, you know, the people trying to jump her at school or whatever. But obviously there had to be people that just like, I don't look what, you know, more as she's like y'all trash for this. I can't even say, okay, call you out niggers word, right people own lorD' sheet, and you down know when we start making these rules. Nobody informed me. Why goodness? I'll try to play the rest is almost over. And and it's apparently saying I was fair you the rest of it. Oh. Star over what happened there. All right. If it doesn't play I'll try to read it because like it reloaded or something. Care civil say. Yes, ios. I'm not sure if you bumped your hair before your interview, but I never spoken doing rolling Lau. I could care less. What opportunities are given to you. Because you're blessed blessed, I've been nothing according to you. Scotty being says I have to keep this. I. Now is to play in of course, stop plan when I clicked back. All right. Let me see fast forward to where we were. So we can just finish her thoughts before we move on last one. Like what we'd see you joke? That's yeah. I don't know just jump from new ship. We got there. They he's trying to find humor in that. He's a comedian. But. But other than that like. No, a lot of people didn't even you know, what's crazy are found out who I found out. People didn't even know to me. And I found out people were my best friends were trashed so like literally people whose reading I had flown across the world. Just like Jews. I gotta just like chill out being your friend. I second year, but you've got to keep in mind twos. Industry should too. Yeah. So it's like. Just trying to say like I have mad like movies, my friend. You know, what I'm saying but industry to like once industry ship, but that's my friend. That's my money. Right. So like. And then there's other people that you know, you might even see me in a pitcher with even making money with doing somewhere. But. All right. So that was their conversation for the most part. Anyway, it's like a two and a half hour podcasts. And I think it's on YouTube. If we want wanna go see the whole thing and incomplete context Scotty being says, I have to keep this because I have worked at do. Everyone knows you slept your way into the industry. Secondly at yes Jews where are you? I'm in north if I'm also a New Jersey city on Fridays. I'm in a city in the city all the time. Same your pin? Now, you Ango black friends. So I guess he's trying to say, let's fight. Anyways. So my said, yes, the white supremacist narc of and they have picked her approve which was the shirt Twee. And then also tweets that she what she was talking about her issues that black women have with her or does she has black women. Most the is a guarantee any situation I walk in the room with a group of girls. Make this bigger. Room has room has man for every ethnicity. Black man be live stripe to gills. Black girls. Don't like me 'cause black man. Do she put it in quotes? White dots. Put hashtag white thoughts. Damn. Why do all these black girls? Hate me. I've been so nice walks out the club where light skinned dude. What what do you think that means care, you know, black woman big debt young people language? Okay. So it's too young for you to get an stand. That's what problem is. All right. Well. Sound like she's saying black women have some issues with her and she keeps floating out these black men and. That's where the problems coming from where that's what a problem coming as it. Marta Mook is a Bama for bringing guess Jews on his platform without addressing the real sheet. That needs to be addressed when it comes to her. Yes. See also my thing. My belief system. You can ask her tough questions. Yes. You can challenge. You don't have to be mean because I think everyone associated with like doing an aggressive like almost an interrogation stout interview. I'm not asking these to be mean to this person. Maybe she's their friend or whatever. But what's the point of doing the interview if you just be like, I'm not really interviewing you, and this is just a place for us to like stoke your ego? It'd be like your greatest and walkaway. Yeah. A lot of people that it was like this was a waste of an interview. Yeah. Just like like, I say you don't have to be mean. But just be like, well, you know, what do you think about that way? You think about you know, why? Why? Okay. So you don't see how you saying this. Instead, they kinda got nervous. And they seem to kind of like, I mean, you know, people. You know, you know, it is as opposed to being like, no. But you don't see nothing wrong with. That's basically like saying the N word is that not the same to you. She could've said, no. It's not the same to me. You know? Okay. What do you say that word, you know, regular life? Is that something that you do, you know, the people you say at around. That's cool. What you whatever. Now would never say that. Okay. So why would you out there? You don't understand the backlash at all? The white was only wanna ask some relevant questions the white person in space. You don't understand like, it's nothing you ever did. Well, when I was nineteen, okay. But yeah, there's a bunch of people that kind of tweeted. Tweeted about it and articles for their tweets. But yeah, man zero two hundred care for. Yes. Nls. Seventy five years that I don't really know. How mad be because I don't know nothing about her. But it's seventy five for that shit. No, no one hundred foot. Yeah. So I I know you said something about yet questions what were your questions on? Oh, because because I was you know, kind of listening kind of kind of peace in the story together to where a kinda sorta made sense. So what you what you play was a pie cast as she went on. And she was she was, but she was also talking about Joe Biden podcast, but she had all she, you know, Joe Biden podcast a long time ago. I guess he thought they will do then they had the fight over them pants or something. Okay. So they weren't who. And then she tweeted out that niggers li-. Okay reason I don't know Washington today because it sounded like the way that she timed incidences. He didn't do a podcast by having a fake ads and all that shit until after she did that. So it sounds like she say she tried to imply that tweet was to him because he'd be lying. And Santana who's Joe's will too. At the time or whatever, right. When all Twitter and started dragging her and Joe did a podcast dragging her. She felt ostracized from like all been betrayed vow these black people, but what she fails a mention is that to at least a me I was on Twitter at the time. It wasn't because San Santana. And Joe budding black people saw that tweet with shirt and went fuck you. Right. They do them after the black girls. Don't like me because I get black men shit. She was saying, so yeah, it was already a problem like, you know, certain sheets, you just can't really say, you know. And then so for me is a hundred, but the reason is a hundred is not necessarily because of this type of conversation. I think you know, obviously, a lot of says have black men are determined to fall over white women to the point of looking like buffoons. I hopefully people see this and see it as silly as I think it is. Well, I think they just looks team. You know what I mean? 'cause like why would you wanna look? But for somebody like that none of y'all going anyway. So I don't know why y'all super stressed about making sure she comes off great to the audience. But whatever my thing is that I listened to so many podcasts with black man on this black, man. They talk about stuff in the way that black women. Catch hail for air reflecting thing out of their mouth that it. It's like just pick me shit is all like you on their feminism bullshit. And like they can't get a word out edgewise. You know, whenever they do those like state of hip hop clips that I see on Twitter, like whatever black woman is expressing some feminist shake catches hail. You know, like like whenever you listen just about any pike has got black women on it with black men on it. It's like a fight. You know, what I mean what a sex is just to get a word out. It's a fucking fight. So they're not to listen to them. Basically, let her say whatever she wants to as she basically says. Yes, I'm cool with this nigga. She ate. Yes. I'm cool web being able to you know, I'm not gonna say anything about you know, the shit upset about black women. I'm not gonna you know, we're, you know, we're not gonna get into wide. Scotty beam has a problem with me. We're not going to get into the fact that cancer will never has expressed having a problem with me. They just like say whatever you want to. And I don't know if they just did it out like, you know, the title the podcast we just trying to offend people and get some clicks. Or if they really was just like on her dicta. But whatever it is just that always bothers me because it's like man, you could've asked a some serious questions in there. You know, you didn't have to just kick it. Yeah. And that's what it almost looked like because those the clip it's literally almost look like one do had his leg on the corner and deuce stretched out. I was like. We just kicking it with friends we actually try and do it interview. I would honestly rather that why do interview without them two brothers there. It would interview and that's not to say, no brothers our brothers. I would love to see in that room. But if I had my choice, he was the only one that wanted to come with some light. Well, let's talk about why things are the way out. Let's not just say, I'm the victim. And all this. Whoa. Is me shit. Let's be like, well, why do why do you think people feel this way about and he's sound like Nagina funny? He actually had Nala Joan whatever the situation was. That's why he was actually knows questions because he actually did some research. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let me see my time is let's get into my guest rice, real quick. That is force when guests. Right. That's right is guest the race time. Now that it's time for some guests though. That's right. Oh, that's right. It's time for. Race. The number one game, go to Colorado pack. We read the play news, August model of globe. And we are intestines today. Karen and the chat room to guests raise. And of course, everyone plan is or Ray say style ride. All right. Springhill man beat his kids with a belt for eating too slow. Oh, she the best. Peter spring hill. Florida Pasco deputies have arrested a man for abusing three children because they didn't eat their breakfast fast. Enough Bennett James the third was arrested in James venage. Ain's third black man was arrested Wednesday night. Hayes home is free hill w say the forty two yo hit three children with a belt because they didn't eat their breakfast and a thirty minute time. Limit. There's a lot of time to eat the breakfast. I will say that. But that's also a lot of pressure. Come a whole according to an arrest report. The children reported being hit with a Bill on the buttocks fans and feet back. The arrest report says I'm giving them the biggest right me down. The arrest report says James and gave the children ten more minutes to eat when the kids can finish that breakfast deputy say James hit them again. What did he chicken? I mean, maybe it was nasty. Did you leave shales on the edge scrambled egg? You burn the baking. Like, I mean, you ain't cook the grease the grits was gritty the kids are five eight and nine, oh, you know, I sympathize this 'cause I was a kid. I couldn't eat co grids just couldn't do y'all. My grandma used pick on me. I could not do it once they let them get cold you might as well just own down food on much try. I like what is this? And then she would like sometimes she will put some more water in the put them in a pot one back up and give giving. To me again. And it was stupid because I really could've just mashed it with my spoon and shit and it have been soft again. But I couldn't do it. I don't know what the throne recipes grandma paid so. Yeah. The two, but she never worked me for not eating them grits. No deputy say two of the children had injuries on up. A backhand feet. Third had a bruise on each foot. Okay. So you're not just hitting your your injuring your kids. You're not just whooping on eating not to say that women is okay. I think people need to stop hating kids for any reason other than kids try to kill you. But as far as the police showed up, and and it's like marks and shit. You've using them kids own he was arrested and taken to the Landau lakes detention center. Landau nice the butter place. That's why you should put some but on them grits. Maybe they would've finished some come out on five on them up. He is facing three child abuse charges. Yes. Sure. On them. No shit sugar. Sorry to pick on this, man. The case you yours friend. All right guys care yesterday rice. Oh, black art was taking tat rooms day. Believe. Is found a little is like didn't hit his children in the face with a slice of cheese because black folks don't waste noches. You have at you had me at built black your understand when you're grown trying Billy James and the dynamite kid's white a negro black peanut fix me. Some of that dick, Gregory black only beat you. Because I love you black this hers me more than it hurts you black. We got a Beatty w situation black that it weapon. Black black is as black Doha's moon. Cricket max because them kids wasting. Them kids black lit those legs up black. That's how black as hell. Black. I share traumas. Larry's is black. Somebody did say white. Damn you hear from kids. Ask man. Yes. He does. Then that hairlines foot. Autumn kids got hill as line. Keys making my Heff out. What he's saying if I'm losing my got damn health. You got them. A Missouri woman was acting out a movie when she shot and killed her boyfriend. Happening here. The victim suggested the to play out of scene in the movie that involved a firearm. This is always wild to me because all of these stories are based off of the account of the person who killed the other partner domestic violence. Right. And so these stories always while because this is the story that this person thought that the police and the jury would believe and let them go using what I'm saying. You know what I'm saying? Because the other person did right? So visit the story that they thought was okay to tell the police, we was acting out a movie, okay? Okay. Directly the prison. Like what the yazbek doesn't say. Who knows what the real thing was just walked in. It'd be like fuck you on killing you. But but always like what I on the Brenna butter wasn't wasn't. It was too much to Karachi. It's like what you thought. That was. Okay. All right. Well, tomorrow too hard. I had issued him kalija. Marie preston. Wait. No kalija Marie Petersen. Okay. Thirty seven is facing a second degree charge of murder and slaying. She was arrested Thursday night at the police and Fulton very responding to support. Let's the accidentally shot her boyfriend, David doubt and thirty six Peterson, vases, she and David I've been watching a movie and drinking alcoholic beverages evening. Peterson have is that at some point suggested the to play out of scene in the movie then involved a firearm Peterson visor to. Treat a handgun kept in the bedroom to act out the scene Taurus, thirty eight caliber revolver hill by the women discharged striking in the head. Medicine tempted to treat declared that he was dead. Police officials told NBC news that he cannot provide details about the movie the couples reenacted as just as the title or knowledge there of might be used as evidence. I don't know what movie this could be the one where. Yeah. Where won Miss USA man in the head point blank range. I guess I don't know. This is dead nigger storage in here, pow. Even discharges. Not willful. Authorities say Peterson should be held responsible for. Because she had the weapon which admittedly while a mentally intoxicated. So you still on some you got to I guess he was like I got a plea to some level to give they not gonna believe this and nothing went wrong, right? Police also notice you had a number of prescription medications, which could have increased impairment. I'll tell you don't take don't take his. During a home, right? The local district attorney has formerly charged with second-degree murder as a as well as well as unlawful use of a weapon. Karen, guests the race of cholesterol. Marie. Peterson. I'm gonna black Cairns going black. Let's go to chat room. What are you guys? Leave the name is black, but the crime is why I vote malato. I'm both. Serena gotta pick one use the word revolver instead of good or Glock article white antique farm equipment. Second degree white. You know, you fucked up Bill Duke black black. They was watching a thin line between love hate black. They white black gotta go black black. She wanted to stay out black whiteness, white woman and acting out from guns and Buddhist sixty nine black. The correct answer is. She was a white woman. Some you did get it right, though care missed it. I don't know. How y'all got that right? Without knowing article had time 'cause I would say a black all day. No her resume constantly get thrown in the trash cans, you keep wondering why she keeps getting denied for jobs Coletta. Right. That's everyday run that shit lie. Nope. Like, I thought that was definitely a white a black woman phone if I didn't have a picture in front of me down missed that. I don't know what our had seen before something because that that was too much. I let's go to the bonus around. All right. Let's do this. Home. That's right. Double the points. Double writes in abundance around against the race. So far caring one in one heading into the bonus round. Are you nervous? All right. Let's see what happens here. And we'll hopefully be what is it two and three. I wanted to do was not enjoying the movie. He like man, I need this. And he just moved there. And just kill me. You know? Anita. Another didn't move knees. Another thirty minutes. Like, I need another hole in the head. Like, I'll be right back. Do that. By the way. I'm sorry. That man, we're just making jokes. We don't actually know him. And I'm sorry that he died. A woman claims that Damon. Tojo to steal a car. Dame's again, pretty specific these days. What guess what we can't arrested? Are we can't arrest demon? So we got your essence day student. What over it on my? How did what it deems even if you get a car not? I'm just trying to help you out. I don't want to catch the bus. No MO thank you Damis. Yeah. Women got no spiritual handcuff. So you get the real ones for new employees say they found her. Oh, it let me see. I don't want it the little bit ago. Our camera was rolling as we chase down. The woman accused of stealing an SUV from the ace Renner car Thursday afternoon employees say they found her with the stolen car at the TraveLodge of airport road. Did you seal the car? Oh, I don't know. What you're speaking about them. When we how do you on video where same outfit? Really, that's why did you? You don't know who told you to do it dangerous? Demons told you to the car. Why did they tell you to do that? I don't know. I don't know. So you met you took it know how to take. Damon took it earlier that day. Woman wearing the same clothes at the front desk. The ace Renner car, she's in video bribing off in a white Toyota Raffour, she hops in a car that they were in the process of cleaning Andrew off, I want you. Employees say the woman was mad because they were overbooked. Wanna written by had no cost? So. We monk wash. Police why the woman. Eventually gained injury. And put her in handcuffs. I hope she gets Elvis needs. The woman have day once officers put her in a patrol car. All right to remain silent. So mean, well, she supposed to say. What I personally think I'm in love if it don't work out. Karen, this isn't it the next MRs Mara. Okay. Because you go right on. Hey, something about crazy. You know, I'm into it care guess the rice black. I don't want nothing to do. Sure positive. Okay. All right. Let's take the chat rooms they will lead. Going to jail. Groggy Todd of this shit stolen from the rental car place said at a car dealership with a lot of size nigga black black red bone black Borna raising Compton black that's afra-, which black black. She is a Negra black. If this aid the blackest, the woman is black, but she was possessed by white woman. Deeming the Holy Spirit came over me. Black don't give a fuck black. She innocent black ABC black the correct as is everyone with the same thing. And you all got it. Right. Black. I'll try to get to our picture on here. This is a thing. This is our picture. This are leaving. Leaving. That's nice. Killing we have ours for days. It is you know, I stole that shit. Okay. Why? What met him you directly to jail? Yes. You are. He was not planning around video where wearing that. Same outfit. Oh, really? Dance booking. Really does not. That's math. You don't know. He's told me to do told you to do it dangerous demon car. Why did they tell you to do that? I don't know. I really don't. So you've met you took it know how to take the demon took it earlier that day survey were the site thing. Oh, this is saying she didn't even bother to change outfits that same outfit. Nice thing that was like this this too. I know just the same outfit you committed the credit union and changes shirt and roll right back up in because. Arrive e the wrath forms caught a woman wearing the same clothes at the front desk. The ace Renna car, she is then seen in this video driving off in a white Toyota wrath, four she hops in a car that they were in the process of cleaning, Andrew. Employees say the woman was mad because they were overbooked aside. I wanna written by hand no calls from so. We lost. Animal questions, though, that shit any questions not allowing you as all of the questions for the Jerry, the judge the police. I mean, they can just play this tape in in court, and that's it. Good grief. Oh, no, no more questions. Nomo questions. We need to raise. It started. Go for me. I want to contribute to it. We need to get back on these streets. Okay. If it was. Yes, us y'all would've did it. Talks Kate man who weighed assorted cars was arrested. Don't sign apparently wave assorted cars in public knowledge. Get arrested. Here's something. You don't hear a man's been the rest of waving a soda cars? Oh, he did this shit. Jar rice was arrested Saturday at the police call someone cop police say rice is using soared to try and stop cars late. A foul him eighth street at may avenue. He's still had the thirty inch soared he had a blood alcohol content of point two nine eight which is nearly four times a legal limit. Here's a rested for disorderly conduct carrying a concealed weapon. John a weapon and threatening law force officers authorities still don't know why he was waving a sword. Didn't he could his ponytail off to know? But I'll tell you why he was waving that sort 'cause fucking crazy agree. I guys we'll be back walking day was for sure we'll see what is schedule looks like tomorrow doing be on another podcast possibly, but you never know what podcast sometimes follow through. All right. So until next time I love you too. Maybe two.

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