5 Episode results for "Bill Technologies"
Sleepwalkers at CES
"Sleepwalk as a production of iheartradio and unusual productions I must voloshin and I'm care. Price look into a special bonus episode of sleep workers 'cause from the consumer electronics show Secure I'd never been to Las Vegas before which is the difference between us. I've Been Vegas gets too many times. I could tell and didn't feel good to be in good hands with an old vegas handler. You one of the new things. Though for me was slots which I don't normally play play. I think subconsciously I was thinking about what Tristan Harris talked about in the first season of sleep walker former Google lower. Who told us that? Instagram is actually supposed to feel a lot like slot machine or the Tristan studied at the Stanford persuasion lab and told us about how casino architecture has influenced the development of highly addictive tape products like instagram. Interesting for me to actually see Vegas and the bright lights and the impossibility of escape firsthand not to mention the replicas of if the empire state building the canals of Venice Coliseum of Rome you know I was lucky enough to see the Seattle space needle for the first time. I didn't know that it was in Las Vegas. But doesn't we were there. We were there for C.. Es The consumer electronics show in this episode. Were actually going to talk about some of the coolest things we saw there. But we're going to focus focused more on the innovations that are at the intersection of technology and humanity rather than talk about you know infamous toilet. Paper dispensers run of the big reasons we went is because we you were invited by wave maker which is an agency part of WPP to do an interview on stage alive. PODCAST so to speak with Matt Monahan. The HATTON who is head of product at publishing and publishing is part of the Washington Post Orcas also an interesting case of a and action because they're forward thinking in terms of increasing the visibility of content through personalization. An optimizing everything from headlines to photo selection all using machine learning and those are things that really matter for journalists and readers. Yeah and this use of. Ai stands out to me because it provides a solution to real problem. How do you get eyeballs on the right content when there's just so much that said the issue of personalization does raise questions about what happens when machine thought to know US better than we know ourselves not to mention and what are the appropriate limits of how companies use AI and data about us? Yeah I can definitely streamline processes by detecting patterns that you know human beings cannot see or it can allow you to scale like tag hundreds of thousands of articles that again human beings just cannot do so greater efficiency is on one side of the spectrum and extremely attractive to people but on the other side. You have issues of taking humans out of the loop like the blackbox problem and authenticity in a world of deep fake so a question for businesses and users of technology is sort of when does Ai. Add to our experience experience and when does it maybe hold us back or take advantage of us for example from seeing news stories that we should see but maybe the algorithm doesn't think we want want to see it or that we won't click on it right in the old days. When everyone received a print newspaper on their doorstep? Everyone had the same front page in the same headlines Nowadays holidays when you log onto a news website or on social media everybody has a different version of the world and that is obviously positive for driving engagement but may not be so positive in terms of having conversations with the same facts about the same stories equally. We have to ask. Do we want articles where the headlines been written by Algorithm. ooh Do we prefer headlines written person. And that's something we talked about with Matt because all actually tested headline writing technology. Let's talk to Matt. Lucas says let's cut to the chase are really came out of a collaboration trying to better understand what actual journalists needed it. Can you talk a little bit more at the very beginning. You know we were just trying to solve problems for ourselves. Seven or eight years ago. We knew he had to make some pretty fundamental transformation to the post and to really prepare for the digital future. We didn't have the right tools to do it. And we couldn't really find the right tools on the market either. What we did was spent a lot of the journalist and the editor is trying to figure out what it was that make their lives easier? It's trying to figure out. How do you make journalists work better publish faster? What are the little things you can do? Inside of IT products make it easier easier for them to write stories or publish from there about four years ago when we started evolving into a commercial offering. Today we're running hundreds of websites around the world breath about twenty different countries. We're running companies like BP their internal communications as well as some of the marketing. We're running large broadcasters and all their live video and beauty and of course I was still running a lot of newspapers and news publishers. Like the post and many others around the world looking in publishing you know that. Ai Artificial intelligence in headlines MHM and there was a story in the Financial Times last year. We said forty percent of startups us. No whatsoever uh-huh so I bet it's probably higher so when we talk about using a Ohio when you talk about what we actually mean so it can span the range of technologies analogies from something like machine learning which is basically a way to use algorithms to take large sets of data in either uncover patterns in it or try to model away to predict a certain outcome. The two technologies like computer vision which you can use to look at images or video and extract information about them by recognizing patterns and trying to identify objects inside of them and so a lot of those technologies than when you put them together conform. Some really interesting workflows that you know in the past. You might have had us humans to do that. You can actually do much more simple automatically. was there a the titular business challenge or challenge the Washington Post that. You couldn't have sold if you hadn't been using AI. Any story that we right on Washington Post. We're mapping to a set of I two or three hundred topics maybe an example of one of those might be like congressional policy or narcotics crime. What you're trying to do is say if I look at all this content? I'm not just pulling specific words. I'm actually trying to figure out. What is this content about? What is the fundamental concept of this so you pick a set of articles? Let's say one hundred two thousand news articles in the case this example for the post and I see us. Humans of Micro Labor to do this training set and the goal is you're building an algorithm Based on a set of real data and so the humans are going there and saying this article. Yeah this is about congressional policy. Why because I know it is I read it? That's what it's about. This one's about narcotics crime time and this one's about soccer and so you train all these articles against that algorithm until finally the algorithm is basically sufficiently advanced to predict a new article that you put into it and determine it outcome with the same high probability of success that you're able to with human training now every time. A journalist Saves Saves publishes the story we're able to Parse over all the contents inside that story then we can predict the strength at which it's likely to belong to that topic. How do you create a better user experience in your case news experience for an individual consumer with the medicine? You can do a lot of interesting things we can figure out that. Hey this is something that they're interested in reading. Perhaps they'd like to read more in. It actually serves the signal into a recommendation Algorithms from your perspective where can businesses sort of harness the power of machine learning to really hone in on who their customer is and what that customer wants. We want to deliver more content to our readers leaders. Who Want to help them? Find more content that we've created. We have about nine hundred journalists at the Washington Post we write something like three or four hundred original stories today. So there's is a Lotta content there to get readers to all different content and to have them continue moving through your constant. You spent a lot of money to produce is really challenging. And so that's a great use case for personalization Shen but where you can make it really come alive is by having more sophisticated. Meditated more sophisticated information about that content. That's more likely to bring readers to it. And so that's where these machine learning remodels really come in handy. I think part of what's fun about this conversation is there's a lot of cases out there where average users you know. They imagine they see something like that. You see the boots on instagram. And you think Oh my God he's companies. Must you know indiscernible for magic right. There must be some crazy model out there doing this. And perhaps is there is but in a lot of ways you know. Your users aren't necessarily as aware of the advertising ecosystem data ecosystem and how these things tied together between platforms incites and I think as like industry professionals. We always kind of underestimate that fact and so the net effect is that users are completely surprised by this. I think you must be doing something completely on her to achieve it. When in fact you know it could be really simple data sharing and so the reason? I think that's important than when you do. Bill Technologies that actually utilize some these more sophisticated methods to build data sets. You have to be aware that your users you know first of all your users aren't going to necessarily anticipate the outcomes you can create and if you don't do a good job on the product side of making sure that you really think through the use case and how you're leveraging technology solve it you can generate unexpected outcomes. You know there was the example of the retailer who produced advertising flyers that were able to predict folks who are pregnant right. Even if some of those folks didn't necessarily know that themselves or hadn't shared it with with their family or their spouses. And so that was a case really of both the company and the consumer being shocked by outcomes that regenerate exactly right I mean the you know the algorithm doesn't do anything magic but that's a case of putting together in that case marketing program where you don't really think through. What's it's the possible data that this could produce? And what am I users. What are they already know about this data? You need to think really hard about your users. What they want and what they're trying to achieve and what the dangers are leveraging this technology technology? It's no different than in that way than any previous technology solutions. You might have used to build a great product for people and it can be misused just as easily funny enough. The first episode of Sleepwalk has season one opened with a story of Washington Post employees. Yes old Kellyanne. Brocail who to appoint about pregnancy and data suffered often miscarriage but continued to receive targeted ads for pregnancy goods often miscarriage and she wrote this openness technology companies saying please targeting Augustine me but that raises the big question for us. which is what happens when the algorithms go wrong? I'd almost be more specific with the way that you say that and like the Algorithm. Didn't go wrong right right but like the implementation of it in the product that they built around it did. Because it wasn't really correctly conceived now you have to make sure that like what you're trying to do automatically fits really well with what your users are trying to accomplish. -CCOMPLISH doesn't happen in a way that's not expected as well designed product. You know so in that specific case. Yeah I mean it. It always starts and ends with kind of good product design. If if you're not doing matt just like any other tool you use it. One of the things we did on the show was we used to a language generates to count with pickup lines. Yes Based on data set of all none of them were Muslim. Were you actually have you are thing and I love you. Wish which is now the name of the book by the Woman Who yes book about it and then she also did these things like Ai. Recipes like one was for chocolate chocolate chocolate chicken cage so they always funny things and Shakespeare's sonnets. And I never revealed two things one is when you turn these deep. Learning algorithms onto big data sets it's they revealed passions. You might not necessarily be aware of like which a lot of chicken and chocolates on the other hand like these clearly not something human would ever make. So how do you think about the line between doing fun things in ai and doing stuff which is valuable for business and also not getting lost in the uncanny valley so a good example of this for instances says we spent some time at the post trying to build a headline generation algorithm we could automatically create headlines for stories. And you know the idea. I think in the beginning any wasn't necessarily the journalist would never headlines again but we'd be able to create some alternative headlines in different ways to think about a story our intention was. Let's see if we can come up with something so that we can create several the different variants of a headline part of our offer from we include Content testing framework so one of the things that we can do is say forgiven story. Let's have three different headlines for it. Let's let's run a test as soon as a thirty three percent of the audience is GonNa get each variant. And then people start to click one more than the other. We're GONNA shift the burden of traffic to the most successful variant and that would written and by itself works really. Well if you know folks in the audience here were to look at the homepage of our site right now. There's probably two or three stories that are running those types of tests were different people would see different headlines or different images or in fact maybe actually just completely different stories and those tests will resolve in like fifteen or twenty minutes so that works well enough by itself but then we realized we could probably create more for these tasks if only we could automatically create headlines for them. We can just be running this all the time for every single story but what we found. was you know not exactly so if the idea was list to save journalists time and doing that in the end I mean you'd have to come up with something that's fairly solid ready to publish out. We create something that allowed journalists basically have formulations relations that they can play with and maybe give them some ideas what to create. But it's still required people to look at it in the end. How can businesses work better with their engineers with their tech teams to sort of create a not stay silent mode in a way that like somebody who works in marketing feels like well? You know. There's actually this need need that. I have but I don't know who to talk to about it and that's really know what to do. It's awesome question to me like one of the best things that you can do as a business is to put those people together sometimes even physically so when we started this project we literally co located engineers product people directly inside the newsroom. To sit with the folks who are doing this work now when it comes to a I M l.. Remember these are just tools. These tools to make work easier their tools and a lot of cases for automation and efficiency. There's some problems that can't be solved without it in the end though. You know you're still trying to solve business problems but most of those involve some sort of users that you need to get to know so you know even at the post we data scientists who were on those teams embedded in the newsroom. As well you know they weren't Kinda see somewhere else thinking of problems on their own this time and a place for creating room for prototyping. Sometimes that has to happen to especially with really advanced technologies but beyond prototyping putting those teams together is super crucial. So how do you make sure you being metaphorically you write good briefed. Ya Team will engineering team. I still think you know. Start with the problem that you're trying to solve if you're going in thinking let us to solve something. I think you're probably just starting the problem the wrong way start by framing up the problem in business terms people. You'd be surprised. I think how much engineers and product folks really actually prefer to get that first before they start diving into. What's the technology that I'm getting us to solve of this problem with the buzz around? Especially right now you know people tend to go into and I think this is kind of something. That's pretty close to magic. which is usually I? It's going to solve these these problems that we haven't been able to solve some other way and that's not really the right way to approach it but hey I will be transformative. I think for generations that by the right way with the product mindset with good acknowledge. The problem that they're trying to solve with empathy for their users when we're doing our research for this panel Bloomberg News saying that. Jeff bezos is personally invested in New York for dogs and then you called Him Jeff in conversation so we were wondering under his people sending me an email energy without obviously telling us the content of your meeting. How does his vision imbue what you do so certainly for us? It's boon to have him owning the company. I think that's one of the greatest things as you know. Obviously The Washington Post were known for amazing newsroom. But we've also spent a lot of time. Investing our engineering I nearing team. That started to some extent before we were purchased by Jeff but certainly after he purchased us. It opened a lot of new doors for us and it gets people excited to come and work for us and some of the problems that we're trying to solve love. They really inspires people to be able to build like a platform like we built within a newspaper company. I think would have been hard to fathom probably ten years ago but I mean today we really really can say that you know we're a content company and we're technology company and I think part of that starts with him and the leadership that he provides so Cara that was all conversation sation onstage with Matt Monahan at CS in early January. It was interesting because we have so much about tech. Companies becoming publishes whether it's Facebook Youtube Chubut twitter about publishes becoming tech companies. I guess that's Jeff Bezos has an owner is what we might cool a differentiator so I was personally struck with Matt Experiments with the headline generator for the time. Being it doesn't work well enough to be a commercial product but I think it will soon you know look at auto. Oh complete when you send a g mail like sincerely comma. I get those all the time. and it works in an apocalyptic reading that means that machines genes will take over our lives and there will be no work left for humans. We won't have to come up with smart headlines but I think in a more optimistic reading using algorithms to generate writing suggestions could actually enable originality reminds me of that Chinese science fiction writer. Who you and I've talked about name? Chen Show Fun who actually used algorithm to create ideas for his own work and he used it when he had writer's block he wasn't using it to replace his creative skill. He he was using it as an enhancement tool. And I think that's really interesting. Yeah then sees them WanNa sleep because we spoke to filmmaker called Oscar shop who actually shot the whole film written by cooled son on Spring Oscar and Chen turn technology into a tool that she says that purposes you can develop all kinds of technology vacuum by the technology that really serves people and fills a need is technology that sticks around speaking of technology that really sticks around and then some technology that might not stick around. There's so much stuff on the floor of you and I have never been to see us before. I think we were very overwhelmed by what we saw. I'm excited it was kind of inspected judges Paradise Nice and obviously as someone who's obsessed with technology and consumer technology. I would have bought every single thing I tried to buy a few did try to buy that. I mean that keyboard with the mouth turned into the keyboard. How much does this cost us? I almost bought a laser cool laser patch for my back which placebo or not made me look very high but no in all seriousness. There are things that were on the floor. That are kind of amazing when you think about it like from this company called pillow health. They've developed this device called Preah. That looks like a little face a cute little face as they always do. And it's basically a pill dispenser that is voice and face activated so anybody could have one. I have one you can have one. But I think they've developed hoped mostly for elderly people who have many pills that they have to take throughout the day and whose children or health. Aides want to be able to control when their medicine is dispensed and I think for someone who might have a memory. Impairment physical impairment the idea. Ah that someone who isn't in the room with that person could control when they're getting you know. Vital Medicine is really amazing. And you say what you will about privacy. I think being able to do something like take care of your elderly parent with a device is is the perfect intersection of technology and humanity. Right I spoke to the founder about exactly that and we have a lot of concerns about facial recognition that we've discussed at length on sleep walkers and we'll continue discuss in season two but in a narrow use case like this in a voluntary use case where it can help somebody out to remember something very important important like what pills to take when it may. Well be that's the sacrifice which is very much worth taking. There was another startup on the floor. That really caught my eye which was called in new pathy and according to the car in front of me is the first device in the world which to quit with technology to visualize your dogs status from his or her heart rate information. This basically Hawn is that you put on your dog and it records your dog's heart rate and in particular the variability dokes heart rate to tell you if your dog is happy or sad anxious or excited or curious and people struggle to know what that dogs are thinking and if you can use data from historical dougie feelings to model what current dog is feeling and use that how better direction with your dog more power to you. I think it's cool there. Is this other piece. As of technology from a company called me labs Japanese and it kind of blew my mind in the same way that like thinking about automation of drive-thru blew my mind. Did you know like would beam. That looked like a beam and a house and it had a computer that was inside of it and the woman who was showcasing. It basically asked us to stand up against it like you would when you're charting child's height and she took a pen in our stylus and marked as height and then immediately that marketing was uploaded into the cloud and displayed on a device next next to this team and it just made me think like this thing that millions of families do as their children are growing up. is now being digitized digitized and again like going back to the intersection of technology and human behavior. Like imagine if someone moves from house those hype markings that were such a part of your child's growing up can be taken with you in the cloud is just I mean that's the kind of stuff where I'm like. Do I need it to someone need it. Who Cares but the idea that it's like replicating this very very personal feeling and activity giving that we do in our childhood is? I don't know it kind of blew my mind. I think all of the things we ended up talking about you know pillow health the Dobie heart rate monitor and his Japanese the device. Yeah they go back to the most human things our parents okay. He's out dog okay. Our children growing up. What does it make us feel? As as they grow up and so technology that addresses those questions in a sensitive and humanistic way will always be interesting to us because it really allows us to think about until stories worries about ourselves the oldest stories we tell the stories that apart of novels and films all other kinds of arts. So that's to me. What is most interesting and the types of stories that will continue to tell them sleep workers so everything just talked about is consumer focus and very interesting but hey I can also help address problems scale? You know issues ranging from climate changed to pain management and those are all things that we're GonNa talk about in our very exciting season to thank you for listening and we're looking forward to seeing you for season into a steep will very soon uh-huh.
875: The Startup on a Mission to Make Work More Inclusive
"Welcome to the tank bloke writer podcast, your guy to future Tech Trends and innovation in a language. You understand now over to your host Neal Hughes. Welcome back to the tech blog rider podcast and a huge, thank you for the kind words that you've all said across about, by recent interview with Gary vein. Not generally hope that interview will help inspire you. And maybe in could you to follow your dreams, too, but I'm not done yet because I, I have another inspiring tech startup story feel today and a company called threads launched our of stealth in February this year, and it was designed by former employees from Facebook slack, Instagram and Twitter. And the company also raised ten and a half million dollars in an investment round led by some pretty big names. But before they're fifty percent of their investors came from backgrounds that accordingly underrepresented in tech, and they even went as far as to pause their series, I funding to make that happen. And today's guests create threads with a mission of helping businesses keep their entire staff informed through inclusivity and transparency and anybody who's ever sat in a meeting room where only the loud, talkers, all the stronger personnel is seemed to get their message across. I think something they is so important, but I want to have real too many spoilers yet. So book elope and hold until it. So I can be meal is all the way to some Francisco where it Russo. Causey CEO and co founder threads is Wayne Speight with us today. Massive warm, welcome to the show. Kenny, tell the listeners who you are. And what you do. So my name is AVI or Umbro brought up in southern California. My parents here from Bangladesh I went to UC Berkeley, studied math or science after my second year there, some on enter Japan, Facebook, whereas Brockman under I was there for about six years at the time, I liked their ended you always kind of want something own company after a while learn how to build products were data had a like a bunch of really great engineers analysts, eventually note. Four Q ideas and notice interesting Nona, where we realized that asking through their ability to keep everyone on the same page. Certain quickly all of our listen happened intentionally maliciously happened because after number people will break new in Boston been there, you know, meetings become all hands else, confronted messaging become static. And because of this, you know, you start excluding people move work for this means that people are now unheard means that he's not making decisions that they have less context, and ultimately means that your companies will slowly. So we saw that this was a problem that was kind of flirting industries. I did not seek ministry. We went to fix. So we built a company call threads, and it's a platform designed to help your team informed discussed the side in a way that scales elegantly as your teams will count to stretch in just a moment, but every guests are Halfon hair. I'm always kind of curious to delve into that back story and what might them will inspire them to go on become a startup fan when launch their own company, and you do have quite a big backstory. As an ex Facebook can you tell me a little bit more about your time there? What it was like, working Facebook can essentially did you learn from that you'd go on and use to become a startup founded? Well, first of all at great bass boat, tons of growth, you'd get work with such a crowd of people or so meet interesting problem problems of addicts that work on in terms of what I learned that actually helped me move over into starting my own company. There was a few one one, actually how to iterating Halverson to be back listening users, make sure you're building forthright solution to use. Shuttling really strong pepper with incredible engineers and designers who also share your similar product building principals. Three one of the most things you pick up from one of these companies is that you realize that scaling beings is hard but not impossible if yesterday with value. You will literally had a scale and get it new people. The hard part is building. Something works. No matter how much money derided, no matter how many more hours, you put added a you could always something, but it's hard to actually know rubber tension by Batra biding value. So learning that at a big company in actually seeing them, many different ways that old try to bro attention. You really realize you can't really substitute anything or true prog about you. I think that was a really holding the last luck you said you did go on from there to launch your company called threads and on a mission of helping businesses keep that entire staff, informed, inclusivity, and transparency. But before we talk about threats can you just tell me a little bit more about the inspiration behind it, and those problems that you wanted. And you knew you wanted to tackle from the officer. Monte. You took a step back. We hire work with so many great people, but you only ever hear from a few. So one of the trends that I love kind of studying history is that anytime you give Mandy access the more information you see the innovation spikes. Right. The more context, more knowledgeable, get more. They're able to do. Now, when you think about it in the workplace, there's so much information knowledge silo within the awesome, people that you hired and the reason why he can own out isn't because, you know, you wanna hear from them, or because you don't need that to say this, that the tools that we have today aren't really built to have these large wrought sessions at scale. So for me, you know, it could be that because if you think about until today, right meetings or quit messaging, whatever you realize that it's not it's built for a certain type of person, maybe the lower person, maybe the person more restive, but a large majority in a growing majority of your company could be introverted, be remote worker could come with underrepresented back via junior employees with the fresh. Perspectives and you don't have the environment to help them on a be their best songs. We believe in something that me side here, which is, I think most companies, they realize that there's value hat, hiring the best people. But the future work is really one where you built environment where they all either vessels. We just saw this as a massive opportunity across industries, that's kind of inspired us. The light blue floor just listening to you get flashbacks of McColl IT past, and sitting in those meeting rooms and every personality type that you mentioned will always present untypically. It was always the loud, talk that seemed to dominate those, those meetings, and the people that have real value to out to set back in the background. So that's something that's happening all over the world, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. And you know, more so that, you know, I think because, you know, certain types of people eat cliven meetings, and it just because they appreciate taking a little more time to formulate box. They wanna make to their I'm the principal arguments or discussions. Bring it others will misinterpret that, as disinterest Bill for that, as oh, the I'll be not about so the future meeting when he could only opposite number people room. They don't get bided. Now, we always say that the difference decision to bad decision is not a context how you make the decision and how are we supposed to have full context when you're only hearing like a small fraction, or dumping, right? There's just reading neared in warped trade off people leave where I'm going to trade off between inclusion on a vicious, right? You keep the room small out, because you don't like the people, you're quick to keep the rooms fall, because you have to make a decision, but and for us, we were like this is just such a large stomach inefficiency, that's blocking so much innovation productivity from happening. What if that trade off didn't have this, what if you could be inclusive? Attrition what did you can make better decisions? We don't have to like you'll go back in time and have a bunch of different. Follow means rates, the whole, you know, measure twice cut once. So that's kind of what was fired us testing that threads of spouse in February and signed by foam employees from your. At Facebook, and also slack, Instagram and Twitter. And I think everyone listening, we'll have experienced how silo and important conversations and business decisions happen behind closed doors. But I'm curious is this something that you all witnessed inside Silicon Valley to? Let's you a media companies that we worked at our incredible negation companies. So I think a lot of our behaviors and practices were pretty great that said, I think that the world is changing pretty quickly. I think that no, the future work is becoming more diverse and distributed. Right. People are not clamp rate, more under been more constraints than before, and having companies, specifically an built and designed to solve these problems and Bill technologies to kind of these terms is going to be increasingly more important. So there were things that we all own this fantasies, Archer companies within Silicon Valley that we're just incredible that we were able to take those insights bathing. But there's also inefficiencies that we saw that we were able to then use and kind of have a more personal understanding of. Silence. Been improved the to help everyone out there. I want to sit discussions their workers. An old appropriate we discussing K, I think he's something that everybody listening can relate to. So the question I've got to ask you how to stretch, break down these barriers and ensure communication, an ultimately business outcomes, too. So I think there's a few. I think there's one member, you can understand the, the basis of threats is that it doesn't break as more people enter the discussion. Right. So if you think about it, you know, thinking about sending out a company wide Email in most people aren't going to reply all or the only thing worse than that someone is going to reply on going to send notifications out and people don't feel like they can actually be included in the discussion. So for us, we built a product sales elegantly is more blinded, but the session. So in separates, everyone having access to information from being over notified on it with that no eight a leader can impose announced in strategic update, a question the team, other people can comment or reply on this discussion when only notifying the other people who opted into the discussion and that helps at a lot of ways because it means that now people aren't holding back information as they're afraid of annoy equal, they're contributing to sharing of actually question. They assume the other people saying, so I think, in a few ways that this actually breaks it down. I couldn't get your examples that no actually seen within our company as well as others. So one, for example, here is, you know, we are a little under thirty people Kratz, and we don't have any recurring meetings. Right. We have one still because we like hanging up each other love that all for strategic updates polls discussions are protector of all happens on now. The cool thing about this is that since all of this stuff is naturally documented realized that all these meetings and discussions are assessable all her entry place. And that's a pretty interesting kind of segment here, where when meeting about inclusion we're not only talking about including the people you were today. But including the people you haven't even hired so one really cool thing is I remember meeting a year ago. I started dating alcohol's team around what product should be. How should we actually structure our hockey's and this whole proposal for a pretty simple special? But end up being one of the most intensive the sessions, perhaps the company because people have really strong opinions about ops. He's one of the things is that we have this, you know, we have these objects on, on a puppet space in these spaces. Like meetings. Right. Each of these spaces has they are on like name puppet. So when you enter one of these faces every threat, you see in the space is like an independent meeting paddle to people on this. So I have a space fall proposes, so you can actually see every octopus hole the company's ever written within a trust. So one thing that I didn't really expect that's really all that you hire all these amazing like undergraduates that companies top schools, but they're still new to work, the running, how to communicate a business so how to collaborate, and I remember that. And I remember that feeling I remember how terrifying it was trying to, like, write my own first proposal within the company. But often that all of them to start meeting Oliver articles from these products, each, slag, Twitter, Facebook, etc. And the pursuit of proposals that they published for incredible. They will roll reason they principle. They follow the same structure, or Matt, and you realize that when you're more -clusive about how you get work done for knowledge workers, that is d like the skill the, they're able to see us actually or proposals for thoughts and then actually see how the people responded them. So what you realize is that not only increase in the information wrong with your company and leading for one. I'm sore increasing Aldis. Well, because not everyone can ask like. Oh, so that's how the CEO structure strategic victory ahead of engineering, responsible architecture back, I should that way. And that's been a really special in horrible bankbooks actually witness and stretch, I paid Ahmad radar. When a sold aided rice. I think it was ten point five million investment. But what really made your story? Sund up for me was how you would determined to unbolt investors that were aligned with the company's mission of embracing diversity inclusivity and before series A you ensured that fifty percent of your investors came from backgrounds are currently under represented in tech, which is just fantastic. So refreshing to hear you even post your series eight to make that happen. So you tell me more about this, and how you establish that fifty fifty gender equal cap comp-, and how that comprised of you'll most well respected leaders about in an out of the valley who understand about how you went to. One was armistice may. Visit and this is the we in buying the company, but, you know, I think the more interesting harvests even if you percent side. So from us, if you take a step back and just ask for. So why didn't even get investors? The truly obviously one capital, but to you're finding advisors and people you can go to for some really important decisions. You make with your company right from how to hire you calm to promotions to equity to anything everything around building the product Emba company culture now just like I said before know, we strongly believe that the difference between a good decision. A bad decision is the amount of context have make this and we just ask for songs. Are we supposed to have flow contexts for just getting the same perspective from our, our investors that's not going to happen? And, you know, with more if you just believe, with the more perspective that you have the more of the sushi. Stay seen and the more ran mind Novoye in the more opportunities apple is on realize this local college, a competitive advantage by surrounding yourself from so many amazing diapers percents. So we really. That this was going to be black for us dating new over Indus, actively invested ensure that the leaders of the advisers advising company came from these different backgrounds, so that was basically it, he then decided that this was a priming breastfeed worked with our survey visor. They felt diagnose while on the meeting were together. It actually making us. We're going to have stopped found wasting all over the world. So for those people can I ask, what lessons you Lynn along the way at how they funding is actually going to help you at threads type things to the next level. Yeah. So I think, you know, I'm a first time donder and bud raising was you exciting muscle that I was learning about. And I think you looking in hindsight, there's a few things that interview anywhere, I think, for a lot of doctors out there, a lot of builders out there, are you kind of go to move to slim build apartheid, get it off their Bill build combos. And I think that is very, but I think that people under invest in diving is equally as it is making sure that your narrative in your. Story and your logic is just sound. So, you know, most investors are waiting on your solving more than your current solutions. What under solution is I guarantee you about the time. It is actress successful to look, so different than what it is today. So they wanna make sure that you understand the market. Well, here's the problem. Well, understand the, the younger customer users, reading, well, and outbreak enough to three questions that you should feel very calm Nancy, one is no why this, why is the framework lobbing, wise, it been big enough market, and I don't want to actually take another that do not ever got yet. There needs special capital investments. I think better very specifically. Oh. League broad markets. So that's not the world. Rin wanting to ask you about is the market interstate or not. And it does not keep up to is lying out, right? In most things in technology are rarely ever truly innovative or novel. They're usually just no building on top of giants skin porus, so Q soon as soon as true, why didn't do this for ten years ago? What changed to make this hostile now? And the last one is why you right? As soon as a top people off at also notice the inside a new half of being that you have. I'm Ben notice. It now is the right in the building. Why will you be a better person that on versus the becoming space? He hadn't good answers to that reading just inspires confidence from all different investments investors that you all talk to you in a show that you're the person that they should bet on long-term. Yeah. And then so that sounds like a lesson learned of Atta give any input Dahmer's just about the process. Definitely think about those take like the hours east fee to really just calm. Those answers. I'm in terms of what we're gonna do with -unding. I'll be the first. Raising money is not an exact science, right? I like there is not an excel sheet that everyone goes through underlying. Oh, this is these at number didn't need it really comes to your mission. Your whole how many people you need to work with higher. But lob it at incomes down to a gives you peace of mind to action focus on what you should be votes. Right. Every minute you're worrying about can you actually afford this next amazing engineering, I or this person to hire every minute that you're worrying like we'll be having a runway for rent is another minute that you're not doing the unique impact the do, which is binding Parkinson, which is making sure that the teams happy, healthy and will be formed just showing this business is companies actually at Quander so say that nobody raise gonna amount of money where you have enough runway for a few years, actually all the company, one Bill it just fast lenses, your kind of mental space to really solve the hardest homes out there that everyone wants to solve that we've talked about half threads is making work more inclusive for paper. But can you maybe a few use cases that will help anybody listening is experiencing all the problems that we've talked about, and just help them visualize? How it can change how they work or how their business works at the moment. The best thing threats that are probably three or utterance and understand that quickly and helping workman, physical world. So in the world, you know, most companies have a building, right? And you wanted to build them to get work done on Nestle mortgage. Now, when we walk into the building, would you see meeting rooms allowed areas where people actually groups of people come together to me disgust for a we haul hall space, our power, and then within those meetings, what happens we have all these meetings? Right. You just talk about, you know what you can for this. What's the offer plan when she acts each of those are independent threats from? So what happens to create a room for me product thirteen like century, design, and anytime you start a credit. Matt room messed his of it's about different thing about that talk in anyone in the company it was interested in that topic to just invite themselves through beating bite it. So then they have asked every meeting you've ever have on and they can catch them. So if you take this upscaling is a few use cases that come in handy. No one can have. Stasis. So a lot of our customers in one of the coolest things about threats today is that the our customers such a diverse conditions. We have a cricket farming Ghana that was our product all the way to crypto-currency index fun, using it all the way to a sixty percents energy company in Austin, and they all use it for very similar to make sure that their information from the company is more accessible. So some cases you can imagine copy nonsense, right, you, starting company Nelson space in every time you have a big announced that you want. Everyone to read could posted the space you can actually see on our product who's caught up on it all on it, and people feel comfortable asking questions about right asked because they know overdose admire for every project or every processing one example, here is now. I can't name the copy today, but one of our customers, they used to do all of their architecture holes reviews, technical architecture proposals in a meeting, and then they eventually created a space for architectural review, and they will post anytime they have proposal for hobby line. Change her into your catcher in the space. Everyone would you jump in comment replying, how this will the head of engineering? There recently told me that he was meeting with the women intact club within their company, and they mentioned how much they loved rats is hitting four every architectural, review would be urging minutes or five minutes, and none of them would actually how chance to get a word right? So they. Would spend a state by take notes cetera. But ever since they've all been able to engage in every review, right? That's like maybe twenty percent. More people sharing their thoughts perspectives on every propose, which means catch more bugs, which means that they're like, catalyzing moron twos might have not seen on international making better decisions. So that is a perfect microcosm of how this actually drives better to psalms when you have a way where y'all to trade onto inclusion efficiency, you're just making better decisions because, now you have more people were brilliant in handles context. She providing more context into your decision to let me know. Hey, you're probably missing this, this is one should add into this proposal. So we can actually have a stronger. And maybe one other example, here is there is eighty five percent company. Hold buffer there. This incredible copy that has been distributed fully to shoot it from day one, so there are only fifty different locations and, you know, they have a lot of epic communication contracts, because they're all different locations, etc. After he came at a self. They tweeted at us they asked, they can travel aunt and within a week. They're tire company to the surprise, and they were able to still shares to massive nine patient, become a mudhole, call scalable, then and isn't really fine. See all the ways that use it for what a great story that must be. It must feel fantastic to say up a company lot, embracing what you're doing straight away. It a not doing the right thing here. Yeah. I know it's being, but before we like learned these beer, companies is that, you know, you. The isn't is necessary scams this new building something works, red. And a lot of advice that gets really this. You know, we will you'll hear from every investor or mental restarted, obviously by product. I'm harper. Harper and summary. That's like a little bit. You're like, I know I'll try thank you. But the way I can see this market bit should happen. It's like a rock market. It equals product value, plus steel, and those should happen. Sequentially rate should take some time to be like, hey, I know almond big enough market. What are the most resilient conditions? Our beat Mike caught to succeed in for me to know that actually provide for me. That I know that this provides for us. Yeah. Having having by completing product and live on, or that is enough for us again. Now know that apartments, and then once you have that skimming palm becomes a lot more tangible. It is only when he tried to find value, as it'll do you start considering a bunch of things together, and it actually longer to landmark suppress yet kills prayed seeing a bunch of people never met in person with them. Platform London and enjoyed for many cases gives us a shot our in the rents it must feel that you'll lock is moving a million miles an hour. It's coming out of style. Same fab, always say days. I've got to ask, what's next for threads? Is that anything else you can share with us today about the road ahead right now, just has down like so many people are signing up around forty tons of people and we're just an inconstant lobes listing your mind. I'm so as an for different industries companies different sizes, small teams large teams, their own coaching us, actually spreading their system. So we're learning a lot of how nationally. All these people onward seems. And right now completely has just taken these lessons imply, you're for heart, and then and yeah. Adventures will go up leading to stop on the weakness for us. That's the next set of time. Looks like we're really excited to get to anyone listening this just curious and wanna find out more information might be give it all to keep up to speed with the developments to the what's the best way of funny out more information about threats and also reaching out and contacting a member of your team. If they all left with any additional questions after I conversation to yes, if you want more. If you find us on Twitter, you just have to handle reds to find and posts updates on their fairly regularly displayed questions for us one. Learn more about the products, you just sort of threats dot com. And the threats dot com slash contact. The other nice little form there lot yummy specific questions. I'm going to the questions you've been finally at Russo. Kasey on Twitter feed answering Mushenzi my hat goes the best. Let's it. What a huge thanks for coming to the think every business a diverse audience, if you don't have a definitive thought within your organization. How could you meaningfully serve them? Look. How you tackle that problem? And also how you giving every stuff member voice within your company witnessed what happens when you don't so many times. He's quote tragic survey real problem tackling. So thank you so much for coming on and sharing that story with me today. Thanks. I really appreciate it a much. That was so many great talking points in today's episode and I must admit when I first heard about threats one of the things that really excited me was fifty percent of the investors came from backgrounds on represented in tech. And the fact that Paul's last series a round tonight. That happen is something that I've never heard before an Rousseau and his team leader polling for doing just that because yes, this is a text auto. But ensuring the onboard investors are lined with the company's mission of embracing diversity inclusivity that for me is completely priceless. But what are your thoughts on anything? We talked about today. I do like to offer a kind of open mic where anybody listening from anywhere in the world. Can eat a come on this show. Talk about today's episode or indeed talk about their own personal insights that own experiences. That's why provided this platform, so please, you can visit my website tech blog ROY dot co dot UK where you can confined, all eight hundred seventy plus episodes and photos of the guests and various other things, or you can just Email me, tech blog writer outlook dot com. Oh, get me on Twitter, Instagram, etc. At meal. See Hughes, so big, thank you for Russo coming on the show today, and joining me and sharing his story at an even bigger. Thank you for each and every one. Of you listening at one hundred and sixty five countries allowing me to be the soundtrack to your day. Even if it's just a small part of that is something that I'll never take for granted, but I will return tomorrow with another great guest until next, Sean. Don't be a stranger. Thanks for listening to the tag, Royce uphold cost until next time. Remember technology is best when it brings people together.
Brady's Bucs vs. Belichick's Pats, Drawing A Blank, Cam Newton, Stories to Start Your Morning
"Good morning ever want welcomed up first things first general. That's Nick Right. You Got Kevin Wild right next to me on my other side. Brian Westbrook joining us. Coming up on Wednesday maybe as to pretty sure it is Wednesday together. Thank you well. Why are teams passing on Newton? We're going to break down our guy. Jay Glazer says Steadham is the quarterback of the future. Tell you why he saying. And who's GonNa have the last lap brady or Bella check? That is where we start on this now Wednesday morning. So guys on the one hand. He got an energized books team with Brady and Gronk and some weapons and a ton of optimism and then on the other hand you have the Patriots who they don't seem to have any of those other things. Nfl Dot Com the box as the fifth. Best offense while the patch didn't even make their top ten lists who's going to win more games this season. Well how about this Fox bet? Has the boxes just have win favorites over the Patriots with Tampa coming in at nine and a half wins and the Patriots at nine wins Nip. Who YOU WANNA see be more successful this year the Tampa Bay buccaneers or the New England patriots. Do I want to see be more successful now? Very interesting because I am wired to root against knowing not the not the region. The team is been built in their twenty eight. I'm thirty five years old so for the entirety of my young adult and do adult life. They've been awesome if I were ranking fan bases on level of obnoxiousness. I'm not saying they'd be number. One number two would be too low and it would appear I. I'm involved in some type of feud with their most notable player left on the roster drooling settlement. So for all those reasons. I will be rooting for Tampa Bay. I got nothing against Tom. Brady and I love Bruce Arians so I'll be rooting for Tampa Bay. But I feel like the America deserves who I think will be better and New England should be better like I should end up disappointed in this New England last year went. Twelve and four despite having a mediocre offense and mediocre quarterback play. They the Defense and the coaching staff should be excellent once again and Wilde's most notably the me that division. You're not going up against drew. Brees Matt Ryan Teddy Bridgewater. You're going up against two or fitzpatrick. Sam Darnold and Josh Allen and I know all of a sudden people are high on the bills. They still have a quarterback with as many as many career two hundred and seventy five yard passing games as I do so I think the Patriots are far better setup to be more successful this year and win the division. But Wilde's all be route. Y You all be rooting for the bucks over New England this year. Okay Nick I'M GONNA throw it back to you in a second. I think that everyone is rooting for the Patriots. Just how everyone says they hate Duke Basketball. I do but I don't WanNa see them fall too far out because then I have no one to root against it's a little scarface bill bell. Check like you want someone to point your finger at. That's the bad guy so I actually think you're going to be rooting for the Patriots. Okay well you're wrong. I appreciate your fastball ball analogy but some of US actually root against to some of US aside from the Zion Year. Don't we don't want Duke to be good but not great. We want to be bad now. I know there are some people out there that are Patriots Duke Yankee Laker fans like I know those people exist. I'm not one of those people. So no I will be rooting against New England. But Jinnah lately I fear. New England is going to be win ten or eleven games and the division once again. It's adorable when you both disagree so Brian. Let's bring some reason into this conversation. Which of these two teams is is better set up to succeed the Patriots with all that experience or the bucks with the weapons. They really have right now in all that optimism. I'm GonNa go with the bucks. I'm regard the root for the player in Tom. Brady being a player being a guy that's trying to do it again. This season at a different place to me. There's value in that. There's Oh no ability to lead a football team that has underachieved under bruise. Airing is last year and in the past you bringing to me. This is a recipe for success. And he here's what I have these teams so I have the the buck ended up being Tennessee. That means they're going to be foreign to end the division. There will be three into at home three and two on the road. I actually have the Patriots a little bit worse being eighty eight. That means they'll be no splitter division. Don't play the win against the jets lose against just win against doctors lose against adopters care same thing with the bills chats and then the last I have five losses Texas the chiefs the forty niners the ravens and the Seahawks for the Patriots. And so that means they're going to be a nate. They're going to be average football team and I think this may be the season that Bill Belichick as a leader of the Patriots. The that does everything. Tommy Lee says you know what maybe I made a wrong move and the player. Evaluations made a wrong. Move with getting rid of Tom. Brady the same way I made a wrong move and get rid of Jelly ended up bringing back the same way. You can made a wrong little of getting rid. Asante Samuel who went on to three pro robos Philadelphia Eagle to me. It was a bad move to get rid of Tom. Brady and I think this would be the season that is going to cost them. Just a bit while you don't buy it. No I like the idea of like how he brought back Jimmy. We're going to bring back. Tom Brady Brian. I had a question for you since you're an ex player. Do you find yourself for Tom. Brady. Because sort of like you're in the same age group and if you were a rookie like rookie Brian Westbrook. Do you think rookie Brian. Westbrook would be rooting for him. I don't think I probably do root for Tom because he is calendar that same age bracket as me. I should be rooting against them. Because they beat us in the Super Bowl. But I I'd like guys that have been around and again I like to play. I build checks pills is to coaching. That has got the Patriots over the top and I believe is to player. I believe that Tom Brady's excellence. And his ability has got him over the top. Not just bill. Belichick does as the coach. And I'm not trying to take anything away from Bill Belichick because we all know that he's terrific coach but to me coaches great coaches without rape player. They don't make great team. They don't make successful teams to be great players angry coaches making successful than I don't know that Bill Belichick actually believe that or field. That way. I got a question for you. Who's under more pressure to succeed? This year Tom Brady or Jarret Stidham. Oh I thought you're going GONNA say Brady or Belle check. I listened to me. Brady's on a free role at this point because he's already the greatest of all time like this is. No one holds Jordan's wizards years against him. It's like anything he did. There was a bonus. They never made the playoffs. His first year there jumped forty one percent. But it's like who cares. He had already established himself at the time as the greatest of all time. And so. I think Brady's Onofri role I think steadham is under the pressure of your replacing arguably the because icon in the history of the sport I think Bella under the most pressure which is why I vehemently disagree with the idea. The Patriots are going to throw this season away that I know some people are proselytizing because Bella Jack. What is under so much pressure because he is the one that made the affirmative choice to move on from. Tom Brady so if I were ranking most pressure. I'd go Bella. Check one stem to Brady three but I have a question. I want to challenge wilds on something because Wilde's boy. I'm Adrian's over Brady. I'm patriots. I and I feel like that's the type of thing you just say because you want to believe it but take yourself to this scenario. What do you think causes you more pain next year? If the Patriots fall off the map are two and fourteen and are awful. Or if Tom Brady is awful and the bucks or two and fourteen. And it's the football version of Willie mays stumbling around in the outfield. Because I believe as soon as the Patriots if I'm wrong in their bed as soon as they're one in six you start bringing out your Trevor Lawrence Palm bombs you start talking about. This is all part of the master plan. And it's all about twenty twenty one and we have new photo shops if Brady is awful. I think causes massive depression in the wilds household. Tell me if I'm wrong. In the whole household the dog is depressed. Be Bad no. Here's why I'm not. Here's why Am Team Patriots? This last twenty years has been an aberration in my mind because I grew up with the Patriots being terrible so I'm actually in my element. I'm more in my element. Try being eight and looking for wildcards like I love that. That was my definitive patriots experience. My definitive patriots experienced wasn't being great. My definitive experience like you were saying yesterday about Jordan how when you're young. You think that's the best. When I was young. The Patriots were terrible so I'm comfortable with US struggling so that's why rooting for the Patriots. That's more in my element that makes sense. It makes sense. I think it's alive but it makes sense Jeddah. Listen you'll take Judas June corners supposed to be the one that's dishonest and now you're taking it from there was no bus inside just got thrown underneath one. We gotta take a break is coming up. Are the Green Bay packers? The most vulnerable team in the League a hall of Famer weighs in next. This is first things first time for a little drawing a blank started to at Toungoo Vilo number thirteen at Alabama but Dan. Marino's number is untouchable in Miami. Long retired so too will become the first quarterback in dolphins franchise history to Don the one nick tool wearing number one with the Miami. Dolphins is blank stylish. First of all I like the to me. The coolest numbers the lowest numbers. I like receivers that have in the teens. Quarterbacks wearing one two or three I just think it look sleek and can we be honest about something America. Through all uniform changes through all the new modern advancements the Miami Dolphins have arguably the most iconic uniform across all of sports. It looks great. The colors are awesome. The Dolphin looks perfect and a number one to tongue of. I don't listen. I'm a grown man so I obviously don't wear sports jerseys if that were the case this would be the type of Jersey one. Good wear even. If they weren't a dolphins fan. I love it great job on my guy too. It's going to be a great looking Jersey. Brian Westbrook he said looks perfect. Favorite Brian go get the Dolphin. Darvin sorry Brian. It's a great logo. I number one nick to design a uniform because the dolphins have the most iconic uniform in the NFL. Thank you Brian. Terrible terrible take out. So that's absolutely wrong by to getting the NUMBER ONE JERSEY He'll he's trying to turn the Miami area into to US territory. Of course he couldn't be number three because that's how it's our only way down there. He has his name and number down their class over everything but are the number one. Jersey will turn out that Miami area to to was territory. I'm so excited for the team down there. I like to as to his territories before I give my answer. I need to address. That like Nick won't wear Jersey. Nick Wears head to Toe sweatsuits for twenty three hours a day. So the idea that he's like above wearing a Jersey is insane. This is the only time I've ever seen him in a collared shirt. It's forty four minutes and thirty seconds so we're on air okay. I thought it was great to is going to be my number. Four number one. The top five number ones nick. I know you're the list guy number five number one Jeff George number. Four number one is to the number three number one number two number one is cam the number one number one is Warren Moon Entries McGrady tied. I went to another sport. Tracy and CAM actually be tracy. Warren Moon by two number ones. That's awesome. That's a great list of quality list wildwood posited less and if I may just quickly aware sweatsuits does all the time now. I don't soprano some great icons of Bilman. Everyone says but for the German want job. I Want Sodas George first of all had some of my Switzer's lor and you dress for the job you want. We're matching sweatsuits all day. Go ahead Jenna. A offense is headed into the twenty twenty season. Dallas cowboys came in at number four. That's probably typing up on fancy paper right to slide over Jerry next time. They negotiate nick. The cowboys being ranked the fourth best. Offense is blank. Fresher is for that man you mentioned Dak Prescott because when you were moved the quarterback and you look at the teams around the League. You would say the cowboys are number. Four offense at worst maybe better hundred million dollar man Amari Cooper guy. A lot of people thought was the number one rookie wide receiver going to be the number one rookie wide receiver in CD lamb highest paid running back in. Nfl history. Michael Gallo coming off a breakout year. Excellent offensive line everything. You need to be an elite elite offense as long as you have adequate if not excellent quarterback play. So it's pressurized for back and it's pressurized for Mike. Mccarthy Mike McCarthy Mike Zimmer now he wasn't brought in because he's a defensive mastermind he was brought in. Because he's supposed to help the offense go to the next level and the gene go to the next level after they were. Kinda stuck in neutral Jason Garrett so for their coach and their quarterback these types of offensive expectations are very pressurized. Brian Westbrook Nick I think. This ranking is misguided. Why are they the number of four off? It's when they were the number one offense all season long last year and I think he's just as misguided as the cowboys ownership in brass. Stephen Jones not giving their quarterback franchise playing the face and their franchise. Cochran contract is just as misguided. Think about this. We talked about the saints. The Ravens and the chiefs are better than them offensively. I think that she's definitely are better than them. Offensively the last time. The raiders play. Their office did not look very good. We also understand that it's a copycat Lee and the saints. They're drew brees is going to get another five game. Vacation in the middle of the season can drew brees play sixteen games and had the same type of Positi on the vall that he had at the beginning of the season. I don't know we haven't seen it in the last couple of years. He's had breaks and time off in. The middle of the season is so when looking Dallas offense they upgraded the wide receiver position. They upgraded the coach position. They have one of the best running backs in the league and they have a quarterback they had. It's coming off his career-best season. Why win this offense? See a little bit better than they were last year last year. They were the number one office as far yards per game in football. I went with packers asked because like one of Nick Nick. Sweatsuits McCarthy's very comfortable and having a high powered offense in his time with the packers saints. Patriots chargers in the packers were one of four teams with twenty five points per game and three hundred and fifty yards so like nick sweatsuits. He's very comfortable having a high powered offense. Well we know that. These rankings aren't an exact science so nor are knicks outfits a former scout pro football hall of Famer Gillibrand was outgrew eight division winners from last season. According to the role mobility heading into this year vulnerability. So how about this air rodgers and the packers came in as the most vulnerable as a famous philosopher. One said that in great but that famous philosopher also said Oh be lying so I don't really know anymore Nick Realistic for the packers. This season are blake. I'm revenue off. Did Not even think about that part of this. Because with respect to the hall of Famer Gillibrand you know what applies to him and these ARRONI's ranking. All people would be lying do winners more volume they would think of that division winners more vulnerable than the backers. How about the eagles who we just talked about how good the cowboys could be. How about the Texans who we know what may in their off-season been trading second best player. Those are just the first two that come to mind and one could argue that if. Hey if everyone's right and I'm wrong about Brady in the box. This saints are vulnerable as well by the way the division winner in the West. The Nour's there 'cause they're jamming coach had been flirting with different. A different quarterback all off season wasn't realistic expectations for the packers in twenty twenty our division champs to repeat as division champs for the first time since twenty. Fourteen if I remember correctly. They one in twenty-six first time since two thousand fourteen they ever repeated as division champion. What are we scared of the NFC north? I'm just curious like the lions coming off that amazing three and a half win season. They had the bears whose urge trade their big move was trading for nick. Foles right after you turned back into Nichols or the Vikings who I think we know that they are good but not great team. I don't know the packers are Super Bowl. Can our suit rule favorite but they absolutely should be division champ. So that's the realistic expectation with respect to the hall of Famer Gillibrand. Who's proving America's newest catchphrase correct? Old People be allowed. I love coach. Trade oh I only people a I'll say this. I think realistic expectation for the packers. Season is ten six eleven five to be honest with you. I would really era to the thought of ten and six. I think they have Chuck Road Games. You have to pay the saints. The buck the Texans. The colts in the forty niners WanNa road and I think in their division. The Vikings will present a bit of an issue for them and I think they had two games last season against the lions and I think both of those game and cited by three points or less and so I still think in the division before too but I think they'll have a road record and with that it'll be tough with them to get more than ten win. Okay America. I know we're talking to America directly now. Old People be lying is not America's favorite new catchphrase. Nick calls himself a truth teller and as an outright bald faced lie it is it is a nascent phrase that he's trying to push it starting to take root genocide it. Brian likes it. So it's been a disaster. I'm trying to tamp this thing down. I went on The packers question. I was just happy that the Patriots weren't number one. We came in four. I'm adding to the jets fan club. Old People are not lying. It is a true statement. So thank you jill. I'm sorry that I brought it up. I obviously started something I will take you. Packers feel like they can be eight and ten and six. I feel like it can go both ways with that. Same all right. Let's talk about the eagles. Your former team Brian. They drafted three wide receivers including first rounder. Jalen rader and added Marquee Goodwin this off season which has carson wentz feeling quote extremely pumped nick the talent and the speed and the talent around wins. The season will be blank. I think it's overrated. I feel like we've done this with billy. Ever since they won the Super Bowl we've looked at the roster and we've said Oh my God every year we've done it. Oh my God look at all this talent and I actually look at the names and I say okay. What Philly is as been great at? What Howie Roseman Been? Excellent at is not having massive gaps in his roster where you have replacement level players or or fringe. Nfl guys starters. What I don't think he's been. Great at is accumulating. A leap playmakers an elite talent and billy last year. What was the narrative that is the most talented roster and all the NFL and all that talent got him? What exactly they limped into the post season because they were in the worst division football and I am by the way I think. A lot of billy bands the away that our stars Stat Statistician. Dustin Wakefield's about their wide receiver pick of all the wide receivers. We could've taken. We took in. Six hundred yards is final year in college and now trying to convince themselves because a bad quarterback play as opposed to maybe Howie Roseman for as great as he is hasn't shown an acuity to draft wide receivers and we've seen that throughout his tenure. So I think it's slightly overrated. I think Philly's good find a good team. I don't think that they have these elites playmakers on the outside Brown. You don't think that you know there. Are we look at Carson Winston season? It'll be questionable just as questionable as it is as it was to take Jalen Raider in the first round with Justin. Jefferson was stolen divorce just as questionable as it was to take jalen hurts. Look at fifty third. You had an opportunity to pick other players at that can help your quarterback future things. I like Mao Sands. I like the ability to get inside outside. Run the football very well. I like soccer now. Life Dallas Cowboys. I liked that offense. Ugly TO SEAN JACKSON. At thirty three coming off of surgery can't be for dust. Is Sean Jeffrey? At thirty coming off her surgery can be productive. And then Murphy's Goodwin you bring them in and he's a really good player but he's coming off two years of injury and this guy back here. He loves the eagles. Two questions about their offense. Go GonNa do remains to be seen. It is questionable. This guy came in Gaza Star. There we go and we had to bring the little guy in. Who's your favorite team eagles? Yes what jury answer. I know I'm going to try to give an lettuce is gonNA get my billy. We're having acute contest on the show. Brian Large took field day because researcher as A. Give me the most crazy you know that. The Eagles had a great draft and gave me the athleticism score that the eagles one in athleticism which you take all the combines and scores and they try to mix them up into a metric and. Here's why I said. Field Day reminds me of when you're field day in middle school and you look around at while we've got all the best athletes and then he like losing the egg toss like I don't know if the athleticism score matters but it's a nice graphic to put up so I'm going field day back to Brian's family that's GonNa be the ratings right. That's that's how homeschool goes. Sometimes there in the office study to just running around all right. We're going to take a break. Wild Field Day with singlehandedly. The greatest experience of my life every year. It's how I became the egg. Taj Got Fourth Grade Day. Let me tell you about. It was broke Levy. Welcome back so we're talking a little Cam Newton and his football future or well right now. The lack thereof the soon to be thirty one year old still searching for a starting role in the NFL news former teammate. Greg Olsen is perplexed by it said Cam quo two-bit too good of a player not to be signed right now so nick besides the funny hats besides the flamboyant pants why do you think teams are passing on Cam. Well Journal the funny hats and flamboyant pants at this point have to be part of it. I know you were joking but I I. That is at this point. We're out of viable options. As to why Cam Newton remains on employed. We HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE. This cannot just be about football. Not No world where people say cans not consistent enough. You know who was very consistent for six years Joe FLACCO. He was consistently awful for six years in a row after the Super Bowl. And you know what that got him? A big was traded or in Denver with millions and millions and millions of dollars left on his deal you was inconsistently healthy or I guess consistently healthy Sam Bradford and that did not stop hell who traded for Minnesota Arizona gave him one year. Twenty million bucks you know why because quarterback play this league is at such a premium if you ever show any high level ability. Nick foles you blade. Six amazing borders in the last five years. How about we eighty million dollars in Jacksonville? You'd think about Chicago Trades for you. So this idea that it's cams health or consistency that is just keeping them out of the League. Right now doesn't hold water to me and so you bring up the funny hats and the funny wardrobes and I guess in the eye of the beholder I I look at Philip Rivers. Who seems to have some worse on the feel body language than Cam? Who Wears Damn Bolo ties to press conferences? Thin hurt him. Twenty five million dollars from the Annapolis Colts coming off a year. We was a turnover machine for the only time he's ever played for so there seems to be a disconnect and there always has been with. Cam Certain people see Cam and see guy who's never been in trouble has been amazing in the community has won at the highest level at Community College Regular College. Damn near in the NFL when they went fifteen twenty one league MVP and his beloved by young fans. And some people see Cam and see a diva who wears funny hats and we end to quote our friend Eric. Mangini is more of a star than a starter. And I think there's a there's a culture gap and there's an expectation gap Brian. Kamm deals with that is part of the reason. So many other quarterbacks get third and fourth chances and seems to be struggling to get a second chance absolutely agree with you there. I think there is a culture gap. I think there is a gap between the perception of the people that are making the decisions of likelihood to play again in the NFL. In what cameras doing to me. I only just a player on the field. I'm only going to address that because I think the odds are the field things a maybe the part of the reason why not playing but it should not be so. I'm GonNa look on the field cycle stuff. I'M GONNA look cam as a passer. I think he can be much more accurate I think he has a rocket for an arm but he has played better in the pocket here. The biggest thing that I think when you talk about by Cam an employee right now. The biggest asset that CAM had as a player was his ability to make plays with his leg in his ability to make defenses. Come up so he can throw over the top of them and when you look at cams leg you have to be worried about all the injuries that the shoulder ankle. He had to be concerned that he has two hundred and fourteen. More carries says he came into the League in any other quarterback that includes Russell Wilson. So you think about death just a lot of carries. That's a Lotta touches for quarterback that has been broken down these last couple years and teams you get past the cultural differences. If you could get past the outfit I think they may be a little bit concerned with that in having them in the backer road to them probably isn't worth it but I think that's a total mistaken misguided judgment ob as far as teams in evaluators. So Nick I'm going to throw the ball to you here I've been watching all of Cams instagram's he just released a new video on Youtube of him working out and he looks great. We said to look great off of a home video and and Cam looks even better to spin it forward into the season to see what could happen. Dan Patrick and Mike Florio had a conversation. Yesterday that I thought was fascinating. Dan Asked floride. What's the best case scenario for CAM and Florio said a quarterback being injured and cam comes in and I said Oh? That's interesting so we looked at? He mentioned three specific. Quarterbacks who got injured one was cam himself big. Ben went down in week. Two and drew brees went down in week two now. If the scenario plays out like Big Ben that can can come in and be the franchise quarterback for a little while. I think that makes sense but what happens with like a drew. Brees SITUATION WITH. A quarterback goes down. But it's going to come back in week. Eight and Cam comes in his playing great. And now you look up. And you've got a franchise. Qb And got Cam Newton on your team. I don't know if that works. I don't know how that would play out. What's your take on that? Yeah I don't think Cam's GonNa be brought in by team unless they are in desperate straits if they're talking about bringing them in during the flow of the season. I DO THINK CAM. Jin Is playing a bit of a dangerous game here because I think he's banking on either. A guy like Gardner minhsiu just looking horrific in the preseason or they're being quarterback injury but we don't know what the preseason is going to be we don't know what training camps going to be teams might come into the season healthier than ever because there might not be a real off season and so I understand. Why Cams doing it. You'd rather be available to all thirty two teams than just the one team you sign with. I get that but then you bring this up before the show. It's a dangerous gambit that he is engaging in right now the other aspect of this is that he's already made it clear he doesn't want to be a backup. He wants to be a starter. A lot of these teams already. Have their starters in place so they take them out of the equation but Brian all ask you? If there is a quarterback in this league that needs to get out on the field in any capacity that needs the reps that needs to test out that shoulder test out that ankle. It's gotTa be Cam Newton. The guy hasn't played since week two last year. He's coming off surgery. He's gotTA learn a new team and you offense. How hard would that be for him to say? I'll wait 'til someone's injured all hop in Lurgan. WanNa get him up and running that week. If not the next week it seems to me. And you're an athlete. Your player former player of news is that would be near impossible to ask a guy like Cam Newton to come right away do that and be successful. I absolutely agree and I think that's going to be his biggest problem. Because teams are still questioning. How healthy is cam? Kenny can be healthy when he gets her. Let's say he has a play in week? Six can he be healthy and he learned the offense quick up in questions as far as his arm and the strength we know he has a strong arm can be accurate enough to help us. When Football Games into me if I'm Cam Newton in listen and we have different perspectives number. One overall pigging the great college all these different things so I look at a little bit different camp but if I was camped I would get into. Can't win me a job. I had an opportunity to compete with a number of this. And let's say the charges in tyrod Taylor. I had an opportunity to compete for the number one position. That's what I would want. I don't WanNa get into camp crew that I'm healthy and then learn the offense and then go out there and show the cultures that I can win. It's going to be much harder for him to come in and week. Six or seven. Try to learn the offense fruit that he's healthy and then go out there and play in less than seven days is really really hard to that in the NFL. Don't you a green? Don't you see that being even harder for for Cam Newton in the position? He's in right now. But there's but we were saying he should take an option that hasn't been presented to him. Where is the team that has said coming in compete for the starting quarterback job that anyway? Brian like he did the right. So the of course. The James is not competing for starting quarterback job. He's the backup quarterback. Andy Dalton is not competing for starting quarterback job. He's the backup quarterback Bryan is saying. Go to a team where you can compete. He can't just show up and say fellows I'm here like somebody's gotTa WanNa bring him in. And maybe the chargers would've maybe that would make sense but they drafted Justin Herbert. So that's Herbert and tyrod Taylor Patriots inexplicably haven't shown interest and I. I know it's easier for people to say it's because he's injury-prone or because he's inconsistent that it doesn't have a job but then explain to me how Sam Bradford kept getting jobs. Explain to me how case keenum got thirty six million dollars after eight games being an undrafted player. Explain to me how nick foles has had two separate teams in the last thirteen months. Be Like you know what what sign up for the Nick foles experience how Joe FLACCO gets traded or by John Elway all those guys their level of inconsistency exponentially greater than Cam and their apex of play in this league exponentially lower than there has to be something else. Here Brian Go. I know we've got to be quick but go ahead Brian. I just think that traditional quarterbacks like all those guys that you just name. They're more traditional quarterback in their easier to come in and secondary road because teams already know exactly what they're going to get out of those guys. There's a little bit of question around Cam. Do we have to change our all to what he does? Well do we have to do more rollout. Do we need to do more quarterback option getting the ball in his hand? Why the change everything that we do? All too thick can intern often. I think that's some of the concern. That some of the coaches may have I also think if he would open up and say I'm willing I just WANNA play and I'm willing to play anywhere in any role I you wonder. How many teams? How many more teams if any would open up with availability for him. All right let's take a break coming up is perennial. Mvp candidate James Harden. Because right. Now he's unemployed his hard on the verge of losing head coach next on first things first time now for some stories to start your morning. How about this jake? Glaser believes that Jarrett. Stidham is the quarterback of the future for the Patriots with Glazer. Saint Audit teams likes tatum. Coming out of the draft without making wild one very very happy man this morning but nick. I'll start with you. I think already know the answer. You think stood long term replacement for Tom Brady we. I don't I don't and these are those are great. Preseason highlights But what I do with respect to Jay Glazer. I don't have the sources that he has. I do know this Arizona. Giants Washington Denver Carolina in Cincinnati. Didn't like him that much coming out of draft cause they took another quarterback ahead of them. I also know that every other team in the league had the option to spend a third round pick on him and they were like I think this developmental interior offense lineman adds more upside. So millicent the Patriots. Did it once with Tom Brady? Maybe they've done it again. With jared sit on. That is a possibility the other possibility is jared system. Is what almost all mid around. Quarterbacks are which is a guy you draft to be a backup starter. It's because things have gone awry whiles every day. The STEM SNOWBALL GROWS TODAY. Jay Glazer and also our staff to take you behind the curtain. A little bit. We're all at our houses and it's very difficult to get video into the system because you have to get it. You know basically from your house the fact that we now have. Jared highlights is great so add. The staff also understood train. Let's keep it going Brian. I love it. You know what I'm GONNA say. There's an and you probably not going to like this. A Lot. Kevin but did them has a possibility of being the worst quarterback in that division. Josh Allen Sam Darnold and maybe better than we don't know what do we know about dearth you reno that you're GonNa take the Patriots to the next level anything to wait. Those are great highlights from the preseason regularly. It's a totally different game. I hope bill technologies though. That's okay we'll turn you into a believer bright moving on the Texans now when they're three time defensive player of the year. Jj Watt was asked about the team trading away. Andre Hopkins this off season Watts. Ed That's above my pay grade thick. That's code for what he didn't approve right. Well listen. Jj Watch younger than me. So I can't hit them with old people be lying so I guess I'll go defensive players in your belying. Jj Watt nobody is agree with the highest paid player. Issue the franchise diller me. Tunsil took that title from like. Nothing's above his pay grade. I understand bill. O'brien right now. Is Drawing A head coach? Paycheck general manager paycheck. So he's got those two combined don't is equal. Jj Watt sixteen million his scheduled to make this year. This is J. J. Watt doing what he's always done in Houston which is a consummate pro and a good teammate. And not trying to raise any waves for the franchise but JJ WATT be lying here. Wilde's boy I think above my pay grade in the history of the English language has never meant anything other than I totally disagree with this. Move Brian. Jj Watts being very fine but overall is like very disappointed. Deandre Hopkins Straight Choice. He's not disappointed. I'm not sure he has any type of feelings at all. If you're a defensive guy you want your offense to score more points. Are you going to score? Points with beyond your Hopkins for without the obvious answer is you're probably going to score more points within your football team. I think they even though I like what he said. I think he probably be the only guy offense. Maybe outside of the Shawn Watson. That should be able to say you know what I think. We're not a better team without the Hopkins. We needed this guy. Football State and we'RE NOT GONNA have him. We have to try to find a way to win but without the Andre. How can this is going to be much higher much harder? And I think he's the perfect guy to have said if that's something that he wanted to do to move on to the New York jets. We discussed in a while. They are signing soon to be thirty seven year. Old Frank Gore Frank. The tank and during his sixteenth season with the third most rushing yards of all time. Right you played your last season with Frank Gore in the niners. What kind of teammate was see? How and health pressing has his career been so neither just a couple of players that I remember that I loved Dawkins and mcnabb and an Hugh Douglas and Lesean McCoy with a young man when I was leaving Philadelphia Frank Gore My last year football in San Francisco just showed me a different way. I mean he was a hardest working player that I've ever been around. He goes out. Every single day tastes literally. When I got there in San Francisco every reverend practice and we'll take every game for the first seven or eight games of the season. It was amazing. No one that I was around love the game of Football Border Frank Gore. That's why he's playing at the age of thirty seven. Here's another reason why still playing after having two hundred yards rushing in a game a regular season game I. I was in the facility the next day on Monday. I wanted to board eight o'clock in the morning doing squats. Three hundred four hundred five hundred pounds spots and then going out and doing sprints on the field. He does a great job of taking care of his body. No one deserves this more than framework. That's why he's the third leading rusher in the history of the NFL. I appreciate Frank. I'm so happy for him. I hope he gets opportunity to continue to play until his son. The freshman at southern miss comes out of college and made me making on the same team. That's just a wishing mine similar to to do with his son as well. I totally agree. Brian. That's great if Frank Gore can play with his son. It'd be the first time. Nfl history. We saw the Griffey's do it in baseball. And we know the Brownie. Lebron Nick we always talk about. That might happened because it'd be the first time the NFL the closest thing the NFL has ever had to a father son. Relationship is when you are tweeting. Insults back and forth. Oh Wow wow first of all the WHO. The father is in that relationship. I just going to move on from that entirely. I eight frank or were able to play an NFL game in the same season. His son was playing. That would be an all time accomplishment in sports history like baseball. We know it's possible and there's obviously been some great football families. The long's the Matthews in I can go on further and what Lebron trying to do is special but it seems more plausible in basketball because guys to play twenty years in the NFL. It does seem possible. I had never even wrap my mind around it but I also wouldn't. It would've never rat my mind around the top five rushing leaders. In the history of football you have Adrian Peterson the preeminent running back of his generation you have Barry Sanders who many people feel. Is the most talented most gifted running back ever Walter. Payton a unanimous top five back of all time and Emmett Smith obviously the eight and the peak in the early nineties the longevity durability and for Frank Gore to be right in the middle of that eighty s an accomplishment that I feel like we've almost become numb to. It seems impossible friend they would. We sat with frank at the Super Bowl. Brian Odyssey knows Whitewell. He is such a good guy and still to be playing. It's I cannot believe it I will say this. The one person who's I would say the news arrived at their doorstep and they gave them the little stroke of the Chin would have to be a Levian bell who knows the coach would trying to trade him the moment they signed him now. You've got a cheap durable older running back. I don't think they expect to give lady. I'm sorry Frank Gore. Three hundred carries but later on became. Maybe a little more expendable. That's what they wanted to do. Even think about that all right. We got time for one more story this morning ending with the box. Tight End Rob. Gronkowski might be playing football on the field. He's though defending his. Wwe Twenty four seven idle off of it with his new head. Coach Bruce Arians as biggest threat. So said this. Imagine coming out of the meeting room. I'm like look into my left down the hallway. Look it's my right to make sure. No what is out of the meetings yet. Then all of a sudden boom coach areas just comes out of nowhere with a flying elbow takes me out pins me and becomes the twenty four seven champ. That would be legendary. That would be an honor to lose to him. So Nick I ask you could take the title away from Gronk. Listen I he could take the title away for them however he's GonNa have to eat not only to him. He has to find the belt. And my guess is this is what happened in Brady was providing gronk with the playbook prematurely a month ago against grunt Brady with his belt and that's what Brady was bringing the Byron left which is house in those duffle bags. He was hiding the belt there. So no again. Take Bronx so Areas asked to find it. I maybe that can be part of the NFL's investigation genesis that try to write that down and follow it and we're back here tomorrow morning until then stay safe everyone.
How MindValley Scaled Into A World-Class Brand... With Ajit Nawalkha
"Welcome back to the Mike Dillard podcast today guys coming to you from Cancun Mexico where I'm going to be attending the wedding of one of my longest India's brands tomorrow evening. So if the sounds off here a little bit at the intro, don't worry about it. The real recording of today's amazing interview was done back in the studio. So the sound quality of that portion is going to be excellent now as for today's show, you're about to meet an incredibly smart gentleman by the name of agit Nawassa. Now, you may not know object by his name just yet. But you certainly know the company that he's helped build and scale as their CEO and partner mind valley, so mine valley was founded by my friend vision lucky on nearly a decade ago, and with jit's help they've grown it into one of the largest and most successful personal development companies in the world with multiple eight figures per year in revenue today. We've got just such an amazing opportunity agenda is going to take you behind the curtain and teach you how they've managed. To grow into the company that they have and the brand that they have you're going to learn the three primary decisions and changes that they made when it came to their marketing that took them from a short term revenue based mindset into a long-term mindset where it was all about brand. You're also gonna find out which shopping cart and Email service providers. The us how they grew their YouTube channel to more than one million subscribers and much much much more. This is an incredibly rare opportunity to learn from a man with a true rags to riches story as you're gonna find out here today and the decisions that allowed him envision to build one of the most successful and respected companies in the world with that being said, please welcome agit new Walker Ajit welcome to the podcast, and I'm excited to be here. Mike, thank you lighting. Make absolutely well, you got a chance to meet about a month ago at Ryan Marantz house, and that was that was the super fun event and a great chance to. The finally get to meet you. And I'm glad we're getting the opportunity to chat today because I've got a ton of questions about your story and your role over at mine valley, which many of our listeners are familiar with. I know I do but before we dive into that. I would love it. If you would tell everybody about how you mad vision and became such an integral part of mine valley chart, so I I was born in India. I was born in small house a twenty other people sharing this bait it's called the joint family, and they would basically means your logo your cousins and your grandparents grandparents cousins parents dozens and everybody shared the same space. Same outs and growing up that way, kind of kind of got me tour is about saying how do you get out of the tuition like that CNN my teens? I made a decision out of anger and frustration actually to say I need to get abundant. I need to be able to create something or myself or my life, which to me on a average. Rather than a national or an Indian kid like in? India you're expected to be a doctor and engineer on the counter, and none of those you're probably used us. So be it was an unconventional path to really find. What is it that? I'm most excited about which drew Mike Eurocity to join national student organizations, and and work for NGOs and work for companies that really really early age leading me up to one of the companies lost were or was a media house in was a newspaper. It is still one of the largest newspapers in the country, and I was one of the top sales or Sanal. And because I was so curious about what else to do and how to create like an abundant life, and what's my pats. Do it. I I was very eager to propose ideas to them, and I would propose a lot of ideas in one of the idea that proposed stock which is a social media. This is two thousand seven via talking about pre Facebook days for Bernie at least starting to get traction air in the United States. A, but but it wasn't really. That big or even knowing that point in India for the matter. I don't think it available in India, but people to be able to make an account that so so that was a time where we said, okay, we should create a social network type of thing. I started working on that Bill a Bill to me to be able to run it and right around that time Facebook came to India, and basically took any potential that might have had at the time to be able to build a network because I wasn't a superior technology. Wasn't a different ideas. It wouldn't have stuck really. But wanted turned me onto was internet. I got to about the potential of what is possible if you understand technology just a little bit because we're not building overly complicated. It's offer. We kind of were Lee were destroyed because a really big competitor showed up with a very severe technology, but you could possibly create great chain in create a lot of honestly using the power off the internet. And so in nighttime at a at a wallet. Student organization it is back organization that day the exchange of students across the world. They introduced I got into us to one of the guys there, and I couldn't stop to reach out to people around the world and say, hey, you know, any company that is doing something cool in the space of internet. And and would you be able to introduce me to them? So I can kind of see there's an opportunity. Learn from them one of those kids wasn't aleisha. And he replied back to me and said, listen, I don't have a big corporation that you can join. But I know this little company it has maybe ten fifteen people and operates out of a house, but the founder of the company is is an excise occur, which is the organization that was part of the company cultures early in the focus a lot of learning. So maybe you wanted to that that company was line, Molly. So that's how I got into mine valley because of the curiosity of saying I need to learn something about the internet and mission already started doing a little bit around line. Eight mile maybe. A couple of years old at the time. It was very small enterprise and that got me to do vision as interim with the company now, I would go on to spend seventy directly working on building the company and then a forward being a partner of the company which I am right now. But for the first seven years of my association with the company was directly working in some capacity to build a company, and that's kinda how I Alam admission out. We started the journey at mine Walli. So what can you tell us about the size of mine valley these days, if there's anything you can share revenue wise or audience wise. Well, I'm I'm not I'm not at the liberty of sharing the revenue that just because of investor relations, but we are about three hundred employees be the have about fifty two countries right now from from what I recall in our offices different parts of the operated from three different locations. Depend locations across the world. The the biggest being in. Lumpur Malaysia we work with very few authors. But we interacted over three million people different through Email, Email lists or Facebook and other social needed held in. What was the big what was the big inflection point in? When did it take place because I've had a chance to hang out with vision several times over the years and the last time I saw him was probably four or five years ago at at a Peter Diamantis event. And I don't know. I don't remember exactly what he what he mentioned. But I know we talked about the size of mine valley of the time. And I don't think new guys were doing eight figures year just yet. And he probably had fifty employees. Maybe maybe around that. So what changed like what allowed you guys to to grow? I know you mentioned investors just a second ago. So did you guys take on venture capital? No, not meant to capitalise investors who are invested in the business as as as the the board in called Lord away. Okay. And we've been recommended not they're not to share revenue numbers explicitly. So so hera's icon say there is one lection point of the company because I mean, you know, enough about this Mike as while. There is no one thing that makes the company many things that happen at different times that make the company I would like to I like to share a few of those. So you can get like a gauge of it. But each those led to tremendous impact in the returns to the company was having or the significant growth of the company would that be okay or give just one owner? It'd be grabbing like it would be unfair. If I just one thing that I it won't be true. First thing that we did. This is really it's when we when I just started the company, so it's almost a decade ago that we started to do this maybe eight years ago is I was the decision to say what really as a company, and that was the first thing that I was big inflection point. Because that was the first time he said, we are personal excellence company that wants impact a billion lives. So Planete ingesting who we are. And what do we do to do for this wall? What we what what what are we as company with the first thing that kind of threw us in the direction when you saw the new mine valley level before that ever look old line logos. You'll see like a comic sense fond writing in 'em on a circle or something like was money on but the wings origin, aided with the idea of saying who we are. And that's where he identity mine Willie. I started to show up. Right. That was the first inflection point the decision of saying, but we are the seconds like shin. Buoyant was. When we when we said remind valley as one company, you see four that we would remind volley, but we are backgrounds company if you mind dot com, and you can go to way back machine, and you can see it will lose dot com. You will see we were are mainly dot com. Was website that promoted, hey, you should work for our company and Harris why cultures? Cool. It was more a recruitment side than actually something that tells about the actual work that we did. There was a point where we said, well, why are we hiding why are we hiding behind all these different websites? More work. It's a more of more offers every authored the website every product of different website, traffic doesn't scale this way. It was just a pain. So he said why not why white we spend front of the line and say, we might not only right? So so we created the first word on that was called mine really academy now that his mind body dot com. Eventually it came out to my dot com. That's the website that you go today. But I was just saying, hey, this is. We are obese are company. That's almost like a publisher that nobody really knows that the publisher than in being became, no. We wanna take ownership of that thing. My mcadam e and now Cortez mind valley right Dudley on the same time when we decided that the mind volume, you also became really focused on the quality of product instead off instead of thinking about how do we make more money? Restarted say how do we get a higher NPS score or net promoter score. And we increase a focus dramatically into saying, what is it that that that creates real results people out than the while? We would find a model that is now called quest about three or four five years after we made the decision on focusing quality. But at the same time that focus changed the way we signed up and the quality of authors that be signed, which of course, also was something that benefited in the growth of the company kind of implied the company at around the same time. This is all I'm talking about the first maybe I'm talking to two thousand eight. Two thousand twelve thirteen is where the focus was heavily on culture company culture and being able to recruit the best Allen and keep them, and that became one big reason. A why a lot of people wanted to work with us. We were very smart passionate people could make lot money working for another company. A wanted to come down wire to work war, the company might valley. Right. The team happened product happened and rebrand of the company happened. And that was a big inflection point for us to be able to go. Now, we can really really scale around the same time a festival as brand which fest event also started pick. So we started come into physical spaces and that allowed us also some really good growth. The next inflection point would come when we would come out with book quota, chartering mind, which is about three years ago at this point the time here, we are having this conversation because a book is almost like if you wanted to see what the philosophy might Melis. If you wanna see anybody wants. See what the philosophy of mine valley is you can pick up Kotik charring mine, and you will see why that is loss. Be what is it that we stand for? What is that stand against will really clear fat book became that that document that that one piece of inside that you can look up, and you can get introduced the mind value, the great idea, and that book to call beautifully as well, which was a big inflection point for us as well than in the recent times, we of course, bound many other physical events that can Ray different to anything that you might have seen be spent two years ago called mine value, I'm not trying to pitch products there. It's just me trying to explain sure Shaw how these things come together right to mind, while you was very said lie will fly thousand two thousand people to a remote location and get to work with them in a setting of learning, which is what we said VR's company with a learning organization, the our educational tack. And so so what happened there is because these kind of events, which are so different. Everybody that would come to an event like that became a big Basseterre of my value because they were like, I see this company's real company. These are his what happens with this company. Right. A lot of this'll companies. And so all you see is an online paying, but we wanna build a real connection out of that happen online. It's really hard right because the one way communication almost very odd to like, you can do some messages back and forth. But it's not really like how you physically speak with someone writes that kind of change the trajectory a lot because we got a lot of embassador 's who had come into our a fast or came to mind me union who said to come to our different brands like Emma coach, and so forth, our physical events in minal you and that allowed people to really see the company for what is in the truest of warms, and and how great time and became them Bassett's, which again became a viral thing. And this is where the whole this is why if he said, hey, you have your mind valley people tend to recognize us. I think it's a lot to do with the physical space that we created because the bathrooms of mine valley are. Almost Vanik fans and rightly so because that's the kind of space that we create for these individuals to come hang out and field art of the community. Learn together grow together. And of course, in all of this while doing it, of course copy in advertising big role. But that is kind of essential for any company. If you really present your offer affectively, there's no way you could be the greatest culture. But if you can't sell that out sort of people if you offer that people in a way where they understand in one to relate to that would work. So that that was kind of default a design was kind of people things that just happened. So the love inflection point. There was no one thing that I could say this is are mainly change commission from different people in different astray in different type of clients at different points to it's a good ten years now. Now Anura scope, I'm talking about you. Yeah. Yeah. That's just you're adding bricks every year, and that's what you can do over a decade. Awesome. Thank you. What are some of the turning points or big winds from a marketing perspective that you guys have discovered? The first thing that we found was design. That was the first thing that we kind of changed. And that was the first time I would say in the space of online marketing of mine valley became distinguished ran restarted to say you don't have to sell through ugly, right and still people swear by ugly, ugly designs, and we said, but we in long game and ugly doesn't really build the brand ugly. Just simply sells for the moment. So that was the first big step that we said or for marketing, we would like would I like to see about bait of the answer's no, let's not put it up. Right. If I don't like it. I don't like how looks I don't like how it feels. This is not what we wanna represent. That was the big thing for big thing that we did. Secondly, we change our copy are copying fuel little any of the mind valley you mind dot com because communicates never sales -i on. You'll never feel like somebody's trying to sell you something you will always see somebody's making an argument for cakes. Right. That's the easiest way. I can explain it. So all we're doing is. We are saying this is why we propose you may wanna look at this. And because of that it becomes something that again, people want to stay Societa that a long time people on share it because it doesn't feel like you have to do this. Now, it's not one of those hardcore sales letters more. Like, hey, this is the reason why it's a great product. And I'm standing by it because the great product, and you should try it and that sample as. That that was one of the big marketing shifts that that be that that we did that I think helped lot clearly I would say the focus of marketing like that was a big turn for us when we said, we are not going to lunch. His like, we didn't do launches when everybody did launch as we it was a time where he said, we're not gonna do affiliate. We still don't do feel is going to Phillies. It wasn't because we have anything against just because how we want to present ourselves, didn't align. Even if you could make more money by doing fill it. We simply said that the line so we're not gonna do affiliates. And we kind of pointed said there's one way we market our products, which is the best way that meeting to market product just to give as much information as possible to the person that is to make it a saving, even if it's a three hundred dollars, right? So if you look at our landing pages, they're not spayed. We don't than the reasons nothing else. But saying if I want this person to to really say, yes, I want him to say, yes. Or her to say, I don't want them scheme them into saying. Yes, I want them to say a hell. Yes. Right. So if you'll look. At landing pages long. They tell all information that you'll get on the on the class. And then do something that we call masterclasses, which are not just webinars myths light that will tell you something, but it's actually a training. It's actually if it's a sixty minute training, which usually lenders the new evidence exceeded seventy eight seventy seventy eighty minutes, it would be about ninety percent will be pure juicy content about five minutes would be pitched in five minutes would be introduction. So it would be like really usable every classes where you will walk away with like a deck of notes and so forth. So you can actually take it home and utilize it in different ways. So that's kind of what a marketing shifts were we also become really aggressive advertising. Once be started to work. Our numbers of from budget perspective into the return on investment perspective, which is a different approach that depends on companies like a lot of smaller companies contact that approach because they need to staff load. But as we grow advertising county. How much you want to spend? It didn't matter if you made money back not it just is how much you wanna spend this what we are going to spend each of the brands dissolved gonna work. Very cool. What shopping cart Sierra platform. Do you guys use say what shopping carts or CRM or like infusion soft or something else? We process up through Zora. We Mara posted our Email sender. Sorry. I just have to think of what what other for B B a lot of internal like all our programs hosted on our own technology. Right. So we own it are webinars air is our technology, which we built we don't we thinking today get mainstream. We just don't want to just want keep it to ourselves. It's just because so customize at this point that's a whole other whole other business into. Yeah. So we don't want to NBA not rea- not necessarily a technology company or a webinar campaign. Right. So so we didn't really wanna focus on that education tax Bill technologies support education. That's what we do. So that's what we do for that. For website building. We use. Up spot and now built in tunnel tax testing that one out right now tell me what else. Do you want to know? I know those those are great. That's just always kind of curious when when you go through a growth curve like you guys have tech can be a problem if you don't choose correctly. So yeah. No even through that grind. Vetoed. A lot of wrong pet. We lost a lot of you know, I'd rath- liquor that in the process, we grew the company entrepot below that company. Everything that they did at the time. They were called like when we sign up. They were called like office autopilot on average just hang out there appear person recently at a dinner party of that. And I was like, wow. I I recall meeting Landon Ray who had just greeted office at pilot restarted with them that was the first big softwares before that be on like, you know, one of those offers than the install on your server army mail. Yup. That's what we had before than we started with office outta pilot outgrew them. A couple years ago. We try to different companies like hundred name up eventually settling tomorrow. Very good. Very good. And then you guys have gone big on YouTube and social media. It looks like starting probably two to three years ago about three. Yeah. How can you tell us or give us some insights on that? Because I think your YouTube channel of I remember correctly coming up close on a million subscribers. Yes. It'll it'll probably had more than a million this year. So you to be actually dial in last year in twenty teen is when we really Dowd into YouTube. Tell me a specimen question system broad categories about saying, hey, I mean, I don't wanna give a really, you know, I can you away generate answer few last me, it's best. But question, I might be able to direct what you're really asking will for for the people who are listening who are thinking about getting involved in YouTube. Are there any really valuable lessons learned or things that have worked particularly well for you guys to help you do that? So. Firstly? I think the first to learn is to pick up platform and run with it fully. So we didn't get into YouTube until now like like you said right like only loss data's when we sat unless think about YouTube because we were already so prominent on the Google channel and be already. So prominent on Facebook is when we said, okay now, we can go onto YouTube. So that's one thing that I think is the first thing to know is that people trying to tackle all challenge at the same time and just doesn't work when you do that especially in the business cannot afford, the the leadership in each of the channels, and that's kind of how we think about it as saying, okay? If you wanna crush Yu-chu, we are going to see if we have a leader that can crush to does that make sense, right? Right. Because not me or vision or somebody on even leadership sitting down by the executive team sitting down saying, oh, what how to make it you work. Now, that's that's very on ground tactical thing that somebody who needs to be a leader of YouTube figuring it out and then be work. On saying this is what we are what we stand for. And then these are the tactical things, for example, and these are just general tactical stuff that that you probably have heard somewhere else. But here it is again in case, you haven't right firstly. It's all about keywords. It's all about outperforming, the people who are already ranking for those keywords. Right. So for example, if you are in the copywriting, these how to how to write a killer copy in seven steps if somebody already has number one video that ranks how right copy in three stop, right? So you outperform that person by adding more content to longer content who had because you recognize that lot more plus for going, keyword kill copy or something like that. Right. So you wanna started the long tail than you go to the ESE out. So I'm getting into like nitty-gritty hair. But it's really going to processing. Hey, what's the keyword? Let's find keyword and then go for the C which while the which which are material that it's that he would if there there is. Any and then you rank for that? And it's all about tags and keyword and so forth. So that's kind of how we rank really heavily right now on YouTube is because just the optimization of each of the content pieces really trunk eight. Is it started with of course, the longer tail keyword? So it's kind of you are in it depends on the Nisha twelve you're very personal development or personal excellence. Which means we have really large keywords begin go for which means volume will always be higher votes. It's mindset it's out of fast. How to how to speak in like things that are really commonly asked for Wales if you are in a industry, whether it's not so much you'll probably not beating a million subscribers you'll be mostly going for. Hey, I need him thousand really begun. You absolutely in a so you guys read at eight hundred fifty thousand subscribers as of the time recording this, and it looks like you had over the last thirty days. About just over ten million views of your videos and sixty four new thousand subscribers what kind of our why are you seeing that from a business? What kind of impact are you seeing from that is it noticeable as it substantial is it getting lost in the mix with everything else now on right notable in very substantial. And it's not only YouTube. It's any content marketing, it's all about the the re-targeting. This blind are all among the audience at this at this point. I mean, anybody who's doing any major size business knows this is that it's all about saying. Hey, I am. I'm earning these sorry. I'm owning these are Gannex or inorganic doesn't matter. But what I'm really doing is. I'm getting more and more people do watch and see like the stop. And if they do most likely I can re-target them, but more Stoffel mine eventually building a brand recognition of the brands so strong that they will make participated. They are ready. The it's a it's it's. It's basically a content play that we know pays off. It pays off every on every on though. Like, it's not only you even Facebook. It will pay off Instagram and pays all right. Yup. -solutely, and I think one of the biggest success, and that is is a really disciplined systematic content production distribution plan that -solutely is that something that you have experienced within the team that you could maybe some insights around. So I am a system's guy I don't necessarily integrate at this point. I don't go into the nitty grease of each of our systems. But I am I my work with mine volley was mostly around systems misses the marketing to areas that I focus on most late. So that's why I was like the CTO of the company company all at stuff that I did the whole gamut te'o systems are all built by by outcome that you desire, right? It's a reverse engineering process than engineering process because everybody has a system we don't acknowledge that we have a stem bigly retained the. Creative. And so it just happens. But it doesn't it there. The system to every madness because as human beings, we are certainly driven dramatically, and because we are so do driven like, for example. There's a pretty good way you like to stock your car and move your car back your car Archille car. Everything is systematic thing. You just think it's not just the Matic because you know, I destroyed my car. It's auto auto system for you. But that's the same business everything in business operates it system. It's for you. It's your choosing. If you want to use that system consistently because you want a consistent result or you're gonna fall off the radar and then have unpredictable results. Right. So for example, if you wanna get into content marketing, if if somebody wants to YouTube channel, our Facebook channel, or whatever that is if you're looking to do that there's the video that worked like the first live that you did that work on the first posted video that you do a worked or whatever that is at work. It was a system to it. You now want experiment because you don't want to repeat the process, but the thing is already. Really worked. You gotta go. Okay. This is what word let me see let me verse Jamir this and do more offense, and the more you can do more of that the more results you're gonna end up getting right? So that's kind of how any system really is designed you look for what's the most working thing that you have it won't work as well. As it's working with somebody else. It doesn't have to it does have to work the best word for you writing best highest performing for you is highest performing me you break down. There's probably a system or method to that madness. And you take that repeat it repeat it every single day insistently by making schedule it on it at this point that entrepreneurial his all his drop off on right? Be don't make schedule. We just go Cal show up. And I'll look at my Email and that defines my day, while guess what you're not gonna be able to consistently create content that or marketing or advertising, whatever that is. But you gotta have a system around. You gotta have a schedule around it though. So that's kind of how we designed or at least I designed systems is that look for the best. Wording thing or the ping that has gotten me a particular result. And then you reverse engineer on what you debt that got that result. And you do more of it. Make sense absolutely makes sense. Very cool. I'd like to transition a little bit into your book, which she just came out with in the last month called live big, the entrepreneur's guide to passionate practicality purpose. So first question that I want to ask you is what inspired you to take the time to write a book because that's always a big endeavor for me said there was a point in my life. I was running mine volume. Ben, it kind of still pretty young. I'm still am. It was about three years ago. I was thirty one and I was running the company, and I was just like pretty one. I don't know why. But I lost my drive. I kind of got burnt out. I I was doing really good work. The work was amazing. But everything else in life was just not there. And I was like this be the greatest standard degrades possibility of my life. That has got to be more than. That that sent me on the soul journey journey just really rediscover in. And just find honest me. Like, I didn't I didn't ask for was the best. We're gonna me. I didn't ask for how can be how I can be better writing like women. I what is it? What is the honestly me thing in this in this space, and one of the lobby to reconnect a lot with myself and that got me do to answer to get answers to few questions. Firstly was honestly means writer I liked to write a lot. I always as a as a teenager before teenager. I wrote and I just loved writing and reading, and I was really lot. But I will in writing. So that was the first thing that was a discovery there was there was the discovery of saying I want to live a full life. I wanna be a healthiest at possibly can be wanna be able to have the time to spend family friends and so forth, which also got the redesign my life and start companies in a way where I not only make as much more money than I was making before. But at the same time also be able to enjoy the quality of life. And that in degration created the opportunity for me to be able to find space for anything that I lead to today's time today, I have the time to be able to write a book if I want to ride I have the time to be able to go on long vacations, if I choose to go, which I am going in like month and a half from now. So I get to do what I what I want to do while making equal or more amount of money than than I made before it was just by design. I didn't want to life where I was always chasing. I wanted to or if I wanted to taste I only want to change myself and my words of myself because I just thought that what is most joyous to me? Honestly and more trouble true to me most fun to me. And it is it is what it is very cool. So two questions are really insightful. Did you come up with those yourself or were was this process guided by a book or something like life book or a course that you went through to help guide you through that? Journey essentially a lot of things it wasn't one thing. Because I was I was a mess. I was a mess when I was about three years ago. I was quitting my relationship. Which would making me a mass might help was not in the in the best place in. I was giving up something which was pretty much the thing that I wanted for a really long time it just to run my Nali. I'm just so passionate about what we do here. So so I was basically such a mess that everything in my life at that point felt like it's all going to just like finished like, I'm this is going to end me is where I was. And which is why I think I just had no no fear of saying. Hey, I'm rediscovering myself will take time it'll take and that was fortunate that I that I wasn't legal system like mine you so I have exposure to be able to go on my journey without doubting that this. I've a I will be able to come out strong in whatever words in it will be and so say all the lot of them in ours. A lot. Books a lot of red self reflection. Honestly was the biggest elementary. I would go away for days. Not contact anyone until I found the answer to the question that I was asking the minute. My my now Whitely very big role in really being able to bring an external perspective and external honesty of somebody at that time. We would just acquainted we just knew each other and be friends, and and she would just like being honest and true to me saying, hey, what is it that feels not showing up as or what is it that the questions that I should myself as just a as just a friend. And that was a big big help me at the time. Because it it helped me really look at all to not internally. But also somebody else from the outside guiding me on things that I couldn't see because I was me. Right. That was in the box. I couldn't see from outside end. Right. Right. Exactly. What we're some of the other big questions that you asked yourself 'cause I think those I who were really. Powerful where there any others values. I think identifying my values was a big thing is to know how because we know happiness is kind of like a state you're in amount of your happy momentum, the not happy, but you can always stay a in a positive state or you can always stay joy of state. Right. And and or be often mystic about life. Right. That's those other states that you could do. And and there was an because of those like how can I be in this at all times? And that discovery happened when I found my values of what is it that I when I operate from these places it gives me the maximum joy. Even if I have no return in whatever I did or or or as a as an action based on those values. So so that's kinda what was what was the big differential. Man was a big breakthrough mate be able to really know. What is it that? I want to be at all times or one. What is it better that I wanna? Operate from at all can you share some of those? Yes, by two biggest the love and purpose of which is what I wrote on my sleeve, I t shirts shared with everybody love and service to I always wanna be able to be of service to myself, and to others, and I always want to continue myself and everybody on me, and I wanna be able to express that love as in any different way that I possibly can to the time. I am operating from in love and service. It allows me to play to be in a state of joy in and gratitude. Very cool. Very cool. So we talked about what inspired you to write the book. What is it about? Specifically, the book is really a a show web found is to in the past the as I was studying my own companies in just being Aparna, remind me and so forth. I also found that because I like to I wanna be in a play service. I also like the consultant coach on an inappropriate what happened was that? Most of the time when I would work with entrepreneurs founded the reason why they were not able to pass their growth curves or not be able to create more prophets or more growth companies would be able to be more aligned to who really are was less to do with strategy. More to do with perspective. It was the way they looked at their business is what made the difference in the business, and we'll be able to record it you've been thirty two hundred two sometime six hundred percent. But one of our recent clients growth in revenue profitability of the companies and. It's mostly all the perspective is is just the way to look at things. Like, for example. How do we look at growing company most people to spend more money or well, you just need to get better? Marketing most of the time that's the wrong answer, not all the times. But most of the time 'specially companies already got some traction. If it already got the product, it's not about the marketing, it's not about spending more money on about building a team most of the time or building a system lot of times. So it's it's more about how you looking at the view of of your business. If you if I can change that I can change the story. It's like what we talked about in the starting on the nation. Right. It wasn't mine values. Figuring out right better copy. We never really tried to figure out hundred copy. We just figured out how to ride copying a consistent way, which align with values, which is a perspective ship for building a larger enterprise were ses hustling every every year. Right. So so that's kind of that's kind of where the book goes the book goes into perspective and says it has a lot of systems as well. But really mind tension was to say if you're challenge day or you're looking for growth ideas, you should be able to flip over any page on the book, and they'll give you a perspective that probably changed. The the tangent off your growth in in off your than your company's growth, and you would probably be able to see it back saying when shifted that reality when I shifted the way that that thing is when I really changed the traction of my company. So that's really what living is about. The biggest about giving on north able to have a choice to be able to say I can choose to work, really hard. I can choose to not work, really hard. I can choose to grow my company thirty nine I choose to grow by three hundred percent. And all of also, though, the time I understand that. It's about perspective than I can. I can choose that. Perfect perspective. The I choose to have that perspective. Very cool. I'm sitting here flipping through the pages as we're talking, and I love the one I love the size in the this is a book someone can read in two or three two or three. As it's not. It's not Tim Ferriss. Dictionary. Thank you couple of months to work through. And I wanna ask you from a publishing perspective. What that process was like, it looks like you went through a third party publisher, Ben Bella instead of maybe doing a self publishing endeavor. What what insights do you have anyone who's thinking about writing a book right now? So I would say if you're writing a book that helps you business, south publish it one hundred percent, and the reason for that is so for example, before writing I don't know the call the Boca coaching, which is the book very specically to our market on coach, and we sell publish that book because the margins to work with publishers, actually, nothing you get a small advance or big advance depending on the amount of audience that you already have. And then basically after that you kind of left to them mercy away. Then not very good marketers. Even the bigger publishers naturally. Good marketers. They don't really get you on big platform. Do you? Much. Not do the work yourself. Right. You call your friends, and you call your colleagues in you, kind of get on different podcast and shows and so forth. So it's not it's not a very smart thing to go with the publisher unless you're looking for a big I collect which is saying, hey, I want to go in and I wanna get a big at once. And that's why I'm doing it. Because you're not interested in in writing just for the sake of writing too. That's really why you should go to a publisher publisher more mass distribution system. Like, look coaching. You won't find on the bookstore. Live big you'll find the part, right? It's everywhere. Right. So that's really the difference of why I live big worsens coaching. If I was right. My next book. I would probably stop Blissett till the time it was associated to business. Limit has no business model. It's an expression of my creatively. And it does now put in to business model. But when I wrote it I had no intentions to build a business around living, it became an intention active because that's the style. Entrepreneurs mind, right? It's like, oh now I have a book, it's working people. Love it. What can I do par? Right. And that's what is giving birth to the business. But but never intended to build a business of the book of pushing in the intention of building really depends of why you're writing a writing because you wanna be mainstream, and you just wanna book out with the publisher and should be the bookstores go write a book publisher. But if you are hoping that book will actually help you billion business self-published, don't worry about a publisher wasted time in and it doesn't work out financially because if you go through and you want copies, you're still going to have to pay at least fifty percent of the price of the book. So if it's twenty bucks your cost is going to be between ten and thirteen dollars just to buy copies for your friends and family members. Absolutely. But you could go creative on that though. In the modern day publisher, the ones that are not the traditional old school lager publication houses, the new ones they are able to hybrid deals, which basically means that they will not give an advance give you a really small advance. But you can get your own book for like forty percent of the price thirty percent of the price. So you get in single digits worse double digits, and that's that's kind of still you're in a publisher. But at the same time a hybrid deal to you're not losing a a lot of money in getting a book, very cool. Very cool. Well, man, this has been a really really interesting conversation. Are there any final pieces of wisdom that you'd like to share with everybody listening today? But most of the time I feel enterpreneur feel like the only way to Bill businesses to look at somebody else's business the lit. I'll invite you to look at your business in your perspective. No that you always have a choice of saying what is it that your business should look like hopping in Belgrade, businesses creativity builds great businesses, I invite you to tap into that, wonderful creativity. That you have as entrepreneur and build a business up, your desires that is designed exactly how you would like it to be designed with the life design around it and not just how much. More than you work unless that is your desire so really mutation is you have a choice don't copy create from your creativity. And you'll end up having a beautiful wonderful company that you will really lower. Yeah. I can second whenever I've started new business. I've always started with the end goal in mind as far as what am I passionate about? What gives me energy? What am I interested in? What do I want that business to look like from a lifestyle and financial perspective? Meaning you know, how much work do I wanna put into this versus lifestyle. And then you can just backward engineer, a blueprint to build that out for you. And it's worked out well, so far so agreed. Agreed. Well, where can people go to connect with you? Obviously, they can go to Amazon and pick up a copy of live big. But do you have a personal website or any other resources that you'd like to give out? Well, you can go to coach dot com. If you wanna look at our work if gonna coach our consultant our trainer, ignorant, MacOS dot com be have. Be have something novel products that helps you become a better coach. So that would be great beer. Of course, if you're looking for more related to my personal brand, you can go to welcome dot com, which is my personal website or you can go to global dot com. Which is the which is consulting company. Very cool. Awesome. Will thank you so much for the time today. This was a real pleasure. And I can't wait to dive into the book just thumbing through the pages here now looking through the chapter titles. This is right up. My alley. But it's going to be up. The alley that everybody. Here's listening as well. So guys, I would definitely go pick up a copy. This is a book that I think will really make a big different difference in your life. So thank you so much for joining us. I create it. Thank you might. Absolutely guys gals. Thank you for listening. All's and we'll see. Tweet kim.
Mini. Nuclear. Weapons.
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You could find out drivers who switch and save save an average of seven hundred ninety six dollars on car car insurance get your quote online at Progressive Dot Com and see how much you could be saving national average annual car insurance savings by new customers surveyed who saved saved with progressive in two thousand nineteen and many nuclear weapons. It's kind of a weird thing to think about right. The smallest version of the world's most destructive live weapon yet. It's become a raging debate in the American Foreign Policy Community and defense community right now because the trump administration has for the the first time. Put One of these mini nuclear weapons on a submarine. A move that some say is likely to help the United States in the event of a war with Russia or China breath and a move that others say could possibly do us all if that same conflict happened to unworldly part of the VOX media podcast network. We are going going to talk about this debate. We're going to tell you what the stakes are. And we're going to tell you literally. What a mini nuke is and why you should care? I'm ZAC Beecham. Here's always with generally out toward. Hey let's let's go yeah. Alex is very very amped. In case you can't tell. He loves talking about weird destructive defense policies and Dugan's it's it's just like his favorite thing and we haven't done it very much on the show So Alex I hope you're happy very happy Jenner. You happy. I'm so happy okay. I'm not as happy as Alex's or maybe you I don't know I can't uh-huh definitely into talking about this. I love existential crises. It's like this pandemic is all. I could talk about Klay all right we missed our shots. Talk Pandemics so. Let's talk about this instead Alex. What is a mini nuke so it is technically called a low yield nuclear weapon? We're just GONNA call them in. We are going to be clear. We are going to call it many. I knew I wouldn't call them Mimi new even the one we're tossing powers. It is not a good movie. In retrospect very bad so low-yield nuclear weapons powers the awesome power of a mini nuclear weapon. It was worth a shot. So this is the the name of this is is the w seventy six dash two. That's the last time I will say that. But this weapon is basically it has a roughly according to experts a five kilotonne yield which is about think of it this way. A third of the destructive power of the bomb dropped on Hiroshima Right. So it's not like we say mini nukes not like it's a very small explosion and it is a small lure explosion but it is still incredibly destructive and as I mentioned we put it for the first time ever on a nuclear carrying submarine which expertly Tennessee? We put it on an intercontinental missile. So it can go far right and it's a big deal because so far we've only really had on. Airplanes gives us a nuke capability To Strike and almost more stealthy way and avoid defenses. So that's an and and because of that people are freaking out for the reasons that you described and we will get into it for one quick question. Yeah so many new. I just want to get a better sense of the destructive power our here. So how would this compare to a really big conventional bombs like the Moab the mother of all bombs that like big giant bomb dropped Afghanistan. How does that compare roughly the yield of the mother other Volkov's was eleven tonnes? Okay this w this mini nuke is five kilotonnes. Okay so that seems bigger much bigger again. It is a seems bigger. You know the metric system right again it is. It seems the bomb dropped on. Russia was roughly fifteen sixteen. Sixteen kilotons so this one is about a third of its destructive power. The and and the last technical thing I mentioned about it is the reason it is. Minier is basically with bombs like these have what's called the primary and secondary explosion. What this has done has turned off the secondary so there's actually like a smaller bigger? You're the first explosion is smaller that triggers off the bigger second explosion. There is no bigger second explosion with this. Bob Got it. So this came about as a result of I believe the Nuclear Posture Review is the name of the trump administration initiated. Exactly the argument that the trump administration makes them in that document for doing what just happened is is what exactly so willing to it in the show notes but what it says is that so the grand theory here is that between a conventional weapon right so like the mother of all bombs a regular bomb and a nuclear weapon. There's a lot of space. In between and that countries like Russia or China whoever could exploit that space base and and do whatever they kind of wanted to us or at least broken many ways and they are not deterred from doing those things because they know that we would not use the big nuclear weapon so having a mini nuke in this case they would say makes it more likely that we might respond because it is not as destructive and therefore actually increases the deterrence value and so- Russia may go. Oh wait there is a chance they use a smaller nuke against us and so we are we will no longer. I do. XYZ provocative thing because America might respond and will no longer be a self deterred by using this many nuke got it to be clear. Russia is in like a hypothetical random example that you're talking about here right. It's this is a response to an understanding of a new Russian strategic doctrine. That may that may or may not exist assist right. It's sort of some debate about this in which they would infect US nuclear weapon As part of a conflict with the west onto destroy cities but the game battlefield advantage. Yes so this The strategies called escalate deescalate and at the way to summarize. This is in a conflict rush. Many experts believe that Russia would use a a nuclear weapon. I or early on and they have many nukes to which in parliament are called tactical nukes and so there's a belief that Russia may use one of these Early early on and the United States from acting further so escalate to de-escalate. So you gotta get up to get down pretty much. Got It now as you mentioned. There's massive debate. What about this This is s does not in any official Russian military doctrine In fact I was at an event last year in which the Russian ambassador to the. US vehemently denied that Russia has a strategy So you've because it's it's a weird thing but the T. l.. Dr Here is that because Russia's sort of thought about doing this in the Cold War and we sort of thought about doing this in the Cold War that therefore extrapolating thinking will surely Russia's still has this kind of mentality. I know that sounds ridiculous but like that's why does that does sound ridiculous if that's the justification for this policy there's already starting out on shaky grounds right. It's conjecture Tur- about Russian security policy with no grounding and like an actual document or intelligence or anything it's just like maybe if you've seen doctor strangelove that that kind of defined the Cold War right like the they made fun of you know the missile gap. which was this thing that kind of defined the US Soviet relations at the Cold War of like you know we don't want them to have a strategic advantage or strategic or strategic superiority And you know Dr Strangelove obviously parodied that by saying there's a mineshaft gap that we were GonNa have a mine shaft where we could live and survive a nuclear winter And you know if they're going to have when we have to have one so yeah it's the same kind of thing right. It's the missile gap. Exactly just to get out of the jargon. Hell that is the nuclear field. When you're saying strategic what what are you really referring to large weapons to use them? Yeah no I just don't want to be clear about that because I think when people think about strategy to like well how do I you know what to do to to get whatever goal in this case. We're talking about big bad nuclear weapons. Every time we talk about nuclear weapons. I really like I start to understand feminist international relations a lot more because because the language is so like masculine nuys. And it's the psycho sexual stuff going on here anyway. So nuclear weapons to be pink and Frilly okay so the argument for raw pretty clear right. Russia could use these and it's good for deterrence. I'm guessing I I don't know just maybe knowing view Zach and knowing you Alex that there's a difference of perspective at least. I'm not to say that you agree or disagree but I'm guessing Zack. In particular has a different perspective. Would you like to lay out the case against it and why you find this utterly terrified I would love to make the argument against. It's not like a strongly held L. belief but it does seem to me to be dangerous and the reasons why I wrote a really good piece this morning in war rock from friend of Oxford in rang. WHO's an MIT professor? And an expert on nuclear weapons and Veterans argument is that this creates what he calls a discrimination problem. This particular put him submarine. What that means is The missile that you would fire in a conflict to deliver these mini nukes felt like a cruise missile which looks different different from a big nuclear missile of the type that can destroy cities it looks just like one of those when fired for a submarine or submarines have the capacity to do that. Not only that that but firing one. Missile is not clear enough as to what you're doing because one missile often contains multiple warheads and the multiple warheads could go off and deliver like Chameleon kilotons and flatten several cities or nuclear facilities. So if you're on the receiving end of the small American nuclear weapon again small relative terms this missile starts coming towards from suffering. You're Russia and you're thinking okay what we do here because if you don't respond immediately really with your own nuclear weapons. It's possible that this is a really big strike from the Americans that will blow up your entire nuclear deterrent and you lose it and you have to respond now. Early split a large portion of event. Maybe it's just a small one maybe actually is a big full scale milk American retaliation and and you just don't know and you can't afford to make the wrong guests if you're the Russians so you have to respond as if it's a giant massive like world ending attack right so the discrimination Asian problem being it's hard to discriminate between right at least not discrimination in the way that you probably think of it but in terms of like figuring things out discrimination right right and so this means that any even just like putting this on a submarine makes esscalation more likely but the the fact that we might use it and we might think Vancouver sending a particular signal during conflict with a great power would send the opposite signal and get all of us killed so what if trump or to just tweet. Don't worry Russia it's just a mini nuke coming. Yeah yes that would definitely work but they would believe that we are nuking them right exactly act and not get as mad now. This is actually ninety five percent persuade persuaded by this argument In mostly because of the discrimination problem Also I just take it step step further like okay so the US chose five kilotonnes versus fifteen kilotons or something. Whatever like okay is Russia GonNa be happier about that right like like I am a nuclear explosions and nuclear explosion period? End of story Yes you could have killed more people. You could have caused more radiation but the politics are such. I would argue that. Any government that gets bound by nuclear weapon has respond pretty frigging forcefully And so I'm I'm I just don't believe in the measured responses based on the kilotonne of the bomb. Yeah I mean that's the question right. Is that there's this the nuclear threshold sold right and the nuclear taboo is like a famous and of concept that's been talked about in political science into turns literature as that. There is a taboo on using any kind of nuclear nuclear weapons so the question is would that nuclear taboo hold if it's a low yield new like does the fact that it's still nuclear technology that it's still a nuclear weapon. Fundamentally still put you into that category of no we have to respond in kind with nuclear weapon as opposed to we drop a very large conventional bomb on on Moscow and also sorry to everyone in Russia. We're not actually joking about like bombing people in Russia. I understand this is very serious. And we're talking about about a very theoretical level so but we all understand this very horrific and very real terms in terms of possibility in human life so I don't think we're being to flip with that but if we were to drop a conventional conventional weapon would Russia or China respond with a nuclear weapon. Or would they think no. That's that's taboo. We don't want to cross so we would just respond in kind with a conventional weapon and I think that's the question is do low-yield. Nukes still meet nuclear taboo threshold right. Yeah no I agree completely. I think that that's That that is one of the bigger issues and I I guess I just. I am of the belief. It's these moments right. I have trouble believing like rationality of government because at one case. It's almost more rational to respond with a bigger nuclear weapon. If your mom to the mini-nuke you another sense. It's also kind of rational to not because if if you're rushing this case you do know that if you go into a nuclear with United States you're probably GonNa end up losing losing moving. Beat you strong. But everyone's not gonNA end up. Well right we show disrupt. Yeah exactly so like I'm just I would just be kind of like setting off off of me new leads to the obviously con side of this argument. which is you could start a nuclear war? This would be a problem. It's not even just like an issue you of if we use it during a conflict on its own right. There's also a question of announcing all of these new uses and theories. The reason and practical technologies and deployments for Nuclear Weapons has the potential to set off a version of a nuclear arms race. Swear if the US is starting to do all of these different kind of innovative and aggressive things other countries will have an incentive most notably Russia and China to do similar sorts of things. Things could make nuclear use more likely in the future so even just the act of declaring that we're putting these these mini nukes on our submarines is one on that could theoretically destabilize global politics right like not in an immediate catastrophic. I'm not trying to be doomsayer e about it. I'm just saying that. There is not only a risk in the event of a war with Russia and China which is unlikely to begin with anytime in the foreseeable future. It's that the act of doing so raises the risk of conflict on its own in a very very very small but I would say measurable way honestly measurable but it also so gets into trump's broader approach to the nuclear arsenal kind of in general You know we've talked about this on the show before but you know the end of of new start at the end of if these missile nuclear treaties that we've had with Russia going back to the Cold War when John Bolton was in the White House he he is not anymore. You may have noticed this week But he was very skeptical of arms control agreements and was trying to pull the US out of these various agreements. So it's not just this right if you take this one you know isolated issue of the of the submarine low-yield Nuke. Maybe that alone wouldn't kick off the nuclear arms race potentially but when you put it together with the entire rest of you know also going to say that we're GONNA do other issues field other Missiles and weapons that we haven't before under treaties And then you hear. Trump's statements on wanting to just rebuild the nuclear arsenal in general general that have collectively I think very much has the potential to set off a nuclear arms race. Let me give just a little bit of credence to the trump administration's argument here because as I mentioned before I'm ninety five percent persuaded by the arguments that you guys have said. The five percent on trump's side here is his team. I don't think he's thinking deeply about it but like we're kind of already in an arms race in the causation is hard to find great but you know. Russia is claiming to build a nuclear powered. Missile that is unstoppable. Russia has built an incredible missile arsenal. That would make it very hard to the United States to if in the event of a large war with China for us to kind of get involved we have the missile has nuclear weapons and also runs on nuclear power yet. That's the theory. Yeah Yeah Yeah. No one believes. That's true the batteries smart that's but anyway And then on top maneuverable it's a whole anyway And like I there are capabilities that we are missing like we Russia just to be clear. Sorry to cut you off but Russia does have like way more nuclear weapons than we do still route way more or it's where it's close but they do have more okay. It's not like at that point. It's like Marshall Returns right they do have numerically more but it's also aging etcetera right but like look Marsha tactical nukes as well We do have a thousand but they're on airplanes and they and it's hard to beat missile defenses defenses Depending on where you are and it's it's hard to be air-defense as well and so having a stealthy sub with the ability to kind of shoot this many new from any point and almost at any point in the world is probably a good thing to have if they have it. We should have essentially kind of I I. I definitely understand that in terms of the traditional deterrence theory. That's very standard. Right right like the realist. Argument of nuclear deterrence is like well. If you're going to have have the big bad weapons I need to have the big bad weapons too so that you can't control me and you can't dominate. But what does instead. Nobody had them. What if we had international world I WANNA WANNA get into a little bit later? Is You know we can talk about it now. But the trump administration's policy is really interesting when you look at trump's statements themselves he's been super were contradictory even on the campaign trail twenty sixteen. He's really contradictory and his views. A nuclear weapons in one breath will say that you know they're an existential threat humanity in there. You know one of the scariest things and you know he talks about. I think his uncle You know explaining nuclear weapons to him when he was younger and it's scaring the hell out of them seems genuinely frightened. Yeah in the same breath. He'll say but I think you know. Nuclear proliferation is Bob in the same breath. Jose will Japan should mean to get their nukes and South Korea. One point join so you know. It's kind of interesting because he seems to actually understand. Zach your perspective which I also share in the middle Yes these women's are terrifying and it would be great if we had none of them. I think that the realistic point of view. He probably has an and the one that I actually share. Is that the cats bag We're at the point where lots of countries have nuclear weapons. We could have international arms agreements that could restrict them. And and you know cut down the number we have like we did during the Cold War but right now it doesn't seem like that's where the world is is moving and so the argument there there is you know well then we should have to obviously the. US could be the way in moving. That direction is is the other argument to be clear. I wasn't advocating for unilateral and immediate disarmament. I thought I was saying was like these. Different newfangled nuclear technologies. That people are developing We don't need to be developing new ways to blow up the world and we could possibly limited committed to the things that we have right now in any event. We're GONNA talk about more and all of this after short break beer back. 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Winning hundred flowers dot com. Click the radio icon and enter code. Romance that's one eight hundred flowers dot com code romance. Welcome back to worldly folks we've been talking about the trump administration's decision to put a mini nuclear weapon on a submarine and we've mostly been talking about it in the context of potential US war with Russia and U S strategic doctrine relative to that country but it also seems to figure are relatively prominently. Now we had to do this in the way that we think and talk about potential conflicts and competition with China So Alex is our president. nuclear tech NERD Taco about how this relates to US China thinking or planning Pentagon stuff and I prefer end the world enthusiast so obviously China is worried about America's military might and they're worried about what the United States could do in the event that these two countries go to war as there are many experts. Were that historically the number two. As it rises towns the number one. The city's Triassic yes. Let's not go no further to that but one thing that China has done very intently is what they call anti access area denial so a two ad which is not got a star wars character but in regular human words. What does that mean exactly? So it's basically saying that like as it is trying to stop or at least defend against as American warships and warplanes approach that it has this missile system that can shoot them down and make it very hard for the United States a stage. Let's say an aircraft carrier off of China's shores or start sending fighter jets in along the way exit ways to keep America the hell away exactly precisely or were they claim. Are there areas. Say all of you stay right and There are many other things we could talk about here. But the considering this Mini new on the submarine Marine Right. This helps take away. That problem like I said earlier. The thousand or so many nukes that we have are currently on planes so if we had them on submarines which are much harder to stop Much harder to find and doesn't really. I heard there was a hunt for one called Red October. One there was Alec Baldwin is part of the bullying. It makes sit in on top of that says it has it can shoot this missile with the many new on it for such a range talk about the fact that movie Sean Connery plays the Russian submarine chief and he has his Scottish accent the entire time I believed it. I love that movie but sometimes take me out of the movie. When it's like like jumping into a job in the middle of his conversations with Kurt Listen Commander Barista coffee good you get? I'm impressed sorry talking about serious things. Fine Sean connery accent. You know so. Just just UH recap here urged synthesize it having this submarine that can shoot this. Many from so far away could help us with a void that Defense offense of China race many nukes That's a great question I they don't have that many nuclear weapons. I would be surprised I would. I know they have nukes. And I don't think that being in terms of kilotonnes but I don't think they have tactical but honestly I'm not sure I need to look that up. The argument here is that as opposed to Russia where we would be responding to their air use of a nuclear weapon. In the case of China views would be going. I write as a way of countering China's conventional capabilities in its area area. That is to say the area that we'd WANNA be. Let's say defending Taiwan or Japan in the event of a war there. We'd use nuclear weapons to neutralize their defenses. Allow us just to get in and defend our ally. Yeah and in fact I just to make a just one thing clear on the China. Like eight hundred like if you've ever seen those mov- movies of like like Alexander. The great the formation like the shields on top and the shields in front and the spears out like. That's kind of how I think of what China's doing and then our plan here is just well. What if we just from further away just dropped like a big thing on on top of those shields sort of like blue that defense up like if you WanNa think of an old timey wars thing like that's Kinda theory here got it okay? So the Phalanx Wchs Molotov cocktails really far over the failing. Yeah exactly that's kind of what the theories or non-academic versions what happened to the failings. Eventually centrally is that You had light infantry who could get in between the spheres and I actually really know a lot about the premodern warfare avenue anyway. All right all right so I have a question on this and and we talked about this a bit beforehand and When this policy ruled out Alex and I was wondering how does this relate to North Korea? Because we've had stories recently. In reports recently that North Korea's reas developing submarines. That could have nuclear weapons. There were pictures of Kim Jong UN walking near submarine so is any of this related to that related directly to North Korea or is that sort of like a secondary benefit is the right word but a secondary use before I ended. I should just say quickly at the United States has not yet said that it would not bet like it has not committed to not using a nuclear weapon. I in the conflict right right. This is the thing to know I correct. Yeah I didn't WANNA I didn't WanNa go the technical but yes that's right. No I use so we still on the table that we would launch nuke I exactly so this is part of the reason why people worry about many new and the reason I bring this up. Is You know in in the theory of like. Oh we should have this capability we should put it on the sub up all of the talk like ninety nine point eight percent of it was about while we need this for Russia because of the the gap that we talked about earlier. Now that it's a policy now there's a thing being shockingly and not shockingly. It's come up in like Oh Iran war plans. Oh North Korea war plans And so he's sort of seen it disseminate nate out into. Oh this could be a usable weapon. In the case of basically conflict with anybody which Iran of course? It's not having nuclear weapon. North Korea does and this is So I guess more important thing about the North Korean context and one would assume I guess that the US could In the case of a war with North Korea. Just kind of start off with one of these After a conventional bombing if North Korea were to attack and then kind of see what happens or we could go with a with a bigger weapon but the point being is that like there is the worry that these are now more usable at the fact that they are lower kilotonnes kilotonnes that the threshold for using them is while lower and so therefore we can worry. That's the point of the to exactly. Yeah so it's it's kind of the same thing. It's like a double edged sword like the entire point is to make it so where these are more usable hence making deterrent stronger because saying there's a lower threshold we will new cue you with a small nuke so don't mess with US essentially But on the other hand because they're more usable there thus more usable and scarier so knife-edge. It's very worrying right in and get gets to a point about military technology That is often confusing right like when we talk about these technologies. oftentimes the issue is the policy. Rate like drones are really classic example. Here abuse could've used men planes. Do the exact same thing that we've used. Drones is to do in Afghanistan and Pakistan when it comes to killing various different OKITA affiliated people Could have though. The drones are more efficient for it. So it's not it's not so much. The technology reconfiguring policy as policy figuring out what technologies are most useful to employ them but sometimes the very existence of the. The technology changes the way that we think about our policy because it creates new openings and opportunities to redesign what we can do do and in this case it seems like the very fact of putting a low yield nuclear weapon on a submarine causes us to think differently about what we could do in the event of a conflict with even Iran or North Korea. And that means the technologies literally reshaping the policy in these circumstances from stances. I mean obviously there is the policy of putting it there in the first place but it had second order a fax and that worries me right. Because you're both saying. There's this idea of a nuclear taboo that nuclear weapons should be something distinct scarier and terrifying that are kept out of ordinary war planning because they are so destructive and because the risks of their deployment are so high and so making them more thinkable and usable in this way seems to have a a serious degrading effect on the untouchability of nuclear weapons overall and in reintegrating them into normal mold military stuff and that really worries me. There's a famous book That people who study international relations of all read called thinking about the unthinkable which there's about basically thinking about what nuclear war which would be unthinkable. Think about what would actually look like and how we would survive and things like that this is essentially thinking about this becoming thinkable right making nuclear war thinkable against so that it could actually be usable nuclear weapons that we are deploying against each other and that is really scary. No matter how you slice it and I think so spring boarding off of this I think therefore it is important to I was somewhat lenient on the trump administration. The first half here in the second half because has it has Earlier purposefully dismantled the arms control architecture that it took decades and decades to build We we are thinking about a so it is as basically as of now. We are officially under a year from the new start. Treaty goes away and that treaty. Just simplify things things like it makes it so the the kinds of nukes that we can put on missiles and like send to each other kinds of Nukes that we can have those occur tailed we've talked already on a previous episode about the IMF treaty and how that's basically gone and to be fair. Russia was cheating on that but still like that's gone the Open Skies Treaty which basically allows the US and Russia to check in on each other. A guy like see. We're developing anything just for just to build confidence that seems to be on the table to go away as well and and the more this goes away you like the baby out with the bathwater right. It's going to be near impossible to build this up again and this leads due to worries about an arms race and like I said earlier there is already happening but any barrier is good barrier at this point. They're gypsum fair reasons to consider criticizing using the way we've built up the like certain treaties themselves but I think in totality they're good in totality. They are good because they keep the. US and Russia from going at each other's throats with nuclear the weapons. So I'm going to play devil's advocate here and ask a question. which is you know if you think back to the Cold War architecture with you know we had you know? Mutual assured destruction right we each have really powerful thousands of very powerful nukes that can essentially obliterate each other us and the Soviet Union. And because of that we didn't get into direct armed conflict flicked. But what we did is we proxy conflicts all over the world and this low level but still horrific civil wars intervening Rabin and each other's areas. I guess the counterpoint would be if we do have tactical nukes. We have these mini. Nukes wouldn't make that kind of competition less likely. Now because if those are usable at a lower level you know we also don't want to get each other mad so we also won't mess in Your Neighborhood Newell Mess around in ours. Is it possible that could limit some kind of that conflict short. That's the theory. The theory of all of this is that having this many new makes other conflicts less likely but I just don't believe in the rationale you leaders. I think I am also persuaded by Sax Point and I think history bears this out that if you build bill technologies we end up finding ways to use them or at least justifying their use and Look I wished the US had invested in other capabilities instead of the mini like. I'm totally down for more cyber capabilities. Capabilities I'm down for Take this money away from any nukes and and you can repair a bit of our aging nuclear arsenal already. You could invest in other sort of conventional capabilities. Whatever may be? I just. Don't think this is something that we needed of. This is kind of going back to the future for the future. And and I I'm I'm more worried than satisfied by this policy decisions. Going back to the future for the future was the plot of back to the future. Yeah that's the future is now losing meaning to me. They're saying quickly. But you're just another another point about that. Is that the design of these weapons. The strategic design of them not not that like physical technological design. Kind of countermands. What you're describing? They're only supposed to be used in the event that a conflict like a direct conflict has is already broken out right. No one is going to be concerned about toppling a Russian friendly leader. We're not like in that Cold War paradigm but in a world world where that would happen in practicality Syria right now the. US troops are there. Russian troops are also there. And there's an article out today we were talking about before for the show that says that they're encountering each other. It's an interesting word to use either coming into contact more frequently and that's worrisome because you have the US and Russia in the same country and a third country and you know the feared there is that they could it could escalate right. There could be an accident. They Russian troops fire on American troops. We've fire back then. It escalates so in that context. How do you see the mini nuke becoming activated right? But what I was trying to say. Is that the mini doesn't serve as a barrier esscalation any more so than conventional nukes do a scenario like that right they are likely as likely to escalate and to get into a shooting war as a result of misperceptions and miscalculations with like this extra added padded level of deterrence as they are are with without it and only straight up deterrence to bigger nuclear weapons. Right like that's the scary thing. And the thing that wants to push both sides to de-escalate there's no no reason for me to believe that having something in the middle at least nothing no plausible argument. I can think of that. Having something in the middle there would prevent a scenario like that like I dunno a a Russian military contractor gets killed by an American Special Forces operator the Russians retaliation so on prevent that from escalating to full-scale conflict and actually have a process where here That builds off of this so as of now I am unsure whether using the mini nuke requires like the president's approval. I would assume so. I'm like ninety five percent of moving. I think this might be delegated to battlefield I mean that was the the US. John Nicholson General. Nicholson at the time. He's the one that chose to drop it. I am like ninety ninety five to one hundred percents shore that trump would have to authorize it but I could assume in the future right that because we have while they're bigger nuclear weapons and maybe and since we have smaller ones it might be were a future president can say I'm going to delegate anything from like five kilotons down to the commander. I don't know if that's true or not I'd be like that's plus. I'm not sure how like how the potential of that but like that's a concern. I might have and I do like I could imagine you know. I don't think trump would do that. I mean he has been giving tons of authority to military commanders. I don't think he would probably say you know. If you're the Centcom commander whatever may be. You can decide to use against Iran. If you want to. I don't think he would do that. You can imagine President Tom. Cotton in two thousand twenty eight doing it. Yeah I can imagine a future president being like yeah seriously like like anything five kilotonnes out and even like you know one kill down even whatever may be like. That's the commander's responsibility. In which case we could have a future in which like on the presently has over oversight authority over the big stuff and we could start kind of using smaller nukes throughout battlefield. I know that's dystopia and it's kind of scary like I don't think the chance of that zero percent. It's the kind of thing we need to think through and you're radically changing nuclear posture. It right you think through the longer term consequences and how you're going to deploy these weapons so I think it's important to talk through and and again like I know we have these on planes lanes already in like so. I'm not saying I'm saying the the more you put them on more platforms. In the more ubiquitous they become the fewer restrictions. There are and I could imagine a president. President kind of thinking through this scenario does get to something that you were saying yesterday. Alex when we were preparing the show that I thought was really interesting. which is that? It's the It's part of an overall overall trump administration policy the this many new thing of giving the military whatever it wants like this seems like something that I the navy wanted. I don't know which branch all the whole military it was the dod. Okay Jerry so something that the military in general wanted and they got it right and it seems like that's happened a few times times were the military will request something from trump and then he's just like fine. Whatever right so you get this over all policy of not sort of civilian control over with the military when it comes to technological and physical capabilities? It's the military just like deciding what it should have and then getting. Yeah I still I still really. Yeah I mean there are a couple of instances where trump has said like. I don't want the military to have this. He seems to believe that. Like digital catapults or bad and steam catapults are good Others very steam punk. He's pump but like other other than that. You know. The military wanted a lot more money by Gosh they got it under trump The military wanted authority on the battlefield to kind of to be decentralized from the White House and I I think one could argue over-centralised administration but like trump has completely disseminated. He's basically given commanders total authorization to do what they want. That's how we got the mother of all bonds US in Afghanistan for example Now as of last week for example The military did this review and said we would be good to have land mines and war again Right in the Obama administration he restricted their use outside of the Korean outside between Peninsula. The reason is of course the people are so worried that north three and then three military could come over thirty eighth parallel and so we need to stop them. LS broke that story by the way willing to it in the show notes. Now now the military if commander decides we could use a landmine in this battlespace They can use it and land. Mines are not that useful and they hurt civilians and we haven't really used in nineteen ninety one but like the military said. It's something that we could use because we can't replicate this capability and so trump just gave it to them so I think part of me wonders in. This is a little bit more far field but you know. We haven't had a commander in chief who has served in the military at trump went to military school which is very much not the same thing. It's like one of those reformed schools But he didn't serve in Vietnam. He had burst bone spurs that allowed him to avoid the draft. And we haven't had a you know a military military veteran in the White House for quite a long time and I wonder if part of this I mean. Obviously there's a difference between the Obama Administration and the trump administration. So it's not totally really down to that but I wonder if having someone who does actually understand military capabilities better rather than someone like trump or Obama. Either way that that doesn't either seize weapons all as you know dangerous or sees some of the stuff is all the. US military's all bad or all. Good you can have everything you want. Don't you know someone who better understands. It would be useful to have in the White House. I'm not advocating Freddie candidate or anything I'm just no no one no military test for serving in office office right right exactly but I'm just wondering if part of the civilian control of the military you know I'm wondering what do you think that would help. I think it's always good to have some understanding. I don't like you have to have served I mean I think arguably the consensus best foreign policy president at least in the expert community would be George W Bush and he did serve in the navy. If my memory's correct but we've had plenty of good foreign policy says that did not end. I don't think it's a requirement but I think if you want to be the commander in chief you need you'd have some familiarity with these kinds of things and I think a president should be willing to say that the should be willing to understand that the military is kind of interest group. They of course they want right and things right. They're gonNA want more power. They're gonNa what I'm thinking is like trump seems to be say compensating but I mean you know. He doesn't have any military Gary Becker whatsoever. He doesn't even have government background and he's very much you know trying to show. I'm very big and strong national security. You know Republican. I'm very keeping strong on there so the military can have anything. If you listen to his speeches he says you know over and over again lately. You've rebuilt our great military. We're the strongest in the world. Knows what that is part of his Entire campaign stick so giving the military everything they want fits in with that but whether or not that's a great idea is a different question the it's GonNa be really interesting to see how that plays out over the course of the twenty twenty campaign especially given the fairly strong divergence between certain Democratic candidates on how to think and talk about the military So I imagine we'll be coming back to trump's defense policy at one point but for now that's where we're gonNA leave it I WanNa thank our engineer. Bridgette Armstrong our producer. Jackson beer fell. And I want to encourage all of you to rate. Subscribe and review worldly. Wherever your podcasts? Thanks a lot Al