20 Episode results for "Bill Browder"

Interview with Bill Browder

The Daily Beans

20:54 min | 10 months ago

Interview with Bill Browder

"It's the holiday season and things are sucking. We're all pissed at each other but here comes my Christmas gift to you. The premiere of my I brand new guest starring me triumph. The insult comic dog. Yes it's going to be great. Think of it as Joe Rogan not done steroids. It's a live game show called. Let's make it. We're going to have great guests and also Anthony SCARAMUCCI. I'm partnering with my friend. Ended Star Burns audio and also team coco the people who brought you some not greatest shows ever cancelled by and best of all we are according to show live in Brooklyn Union temple so you can attend a taping and see for yourself what podcast magazine cars another fucking talking. Bout guest you'll hear brand new episodes in the New Year and can subscribe right now on apple podcasts. spotify stitcher Google or whatever so that we can count your automatic downloads for weeks after you had quit listening enjoy and since Hello and welcome to the daily beans for Thursday January second twenty twenty. I'm your host ag and today we have an interview you from the more she wrote. Episode called Trump Russian asset and the interview is with the architect of the Magnitsky. Act Bill Browder. The interview originally are January Thirteenth Twenty nineteen eighteen and we discussed the indictment at the time of Veselnitskaya. She's the Russian lawyer that was in the room in the famous June twenty sixteen trump tower meeting with don Jr. Manafort and Goldstone and other high level trump campaign officials. I hope you enjoy it all right so back. In the mid to late two thousands some bad Ambriz stole about two hundred thirty million dollars in a Russian Russian tax fraud scheme and then laundered that money through real estate transactions in New York using a Cyprus based investment firm called Present Holdings Magnitsky a tax fraud heart specialists alleged at the theft was carried out by Russian officials and Putin a guy who we know gets rich stealing from the Russian people targeted Magnitsky so they arrested him in two two thousand eight and they beat him and starved him and tortured him didn't provide him healthcare while he was imprisoned in he died in Russian custody and then we get get to bill browder. He's the CEO of Hermitage capital. Who in response to Magnitsky's murder lobbied congress? US Congress to pass the Magnitsky Act to punish human rights. Violators Obama signed it into law in two thousand twelve and in response Putin band. US adoptions of Russian Children Putin also put together a group of Anti Magnitsky act lobbyists which included looted Veselnitskaya and. She pitched her tail to folks like Dana Rohrabacher who just recently lost his bid for Congress and he even she even brought got her magnitsky file to that June two thousand sixteen trump tower meeting and she also worked for the team defending preface on holdings who in a strange plot twists hired a firm to dig up dirt on its enemies which which included bill browder and that firm fusion. GPS and that's the same firm that Republicans and then Democrats hired to get up research on trump also the same firm that hired Christopher the for steel. Who wrote the dossier? And that's why I think Republicans wouldn't stop asking about practice on holdings in testimony from witnesses involved in this case because they were trying to discredit that dossier so this week. Veselnitskaya was indicted for obstructing justice in the civil forfeiture case for the money laundering scheme and she's charged with coordinating response. With Kremlin officials is to whitewash a document filed with the court about practice on holdings and she got caught so joining us today to discuss. The indictment of Veselnitskaya is the CEO of Hermitage capital the architect of the Global Magnitsky Act and the author of Red Notice. Please welcome Bill Browder Bill. Thanks for joining us on Muller. She wrote a great to be here so I I. I know it's hard to sum up. But is that the story in a nutshell. Did I miss any glaring obvious things that should be brought to light well. I'm actually working on my next book. and And it's going to be about four hundred pages to discuss that so for you to be able to do that in. Three minutes is a big accomplishment. Thank you really difficult. I remember watching your testimony in July of two thousand seventeen and listening to the chilling story of of the capture and murder of Magnitsky so Yeah it was tough to sum up there air but I did want to get your top line reaction this week on the indictment of vessel sky. Well I. I was delighted to see it. Am Natalia vessel. Let's Guy Is a person who pushed every boundary and pushed beyond what was legal in many places in order order to do the Kremlin's bidding and And we saw her cheating in the US Case in which the the US Department of Justice was prosecuting her client privilege zone and she was cheating. And and this is where it gets. Interesting is that In in order for for the US to prosecute prep presume they wanted to get documents Through what's called a mutual legal assistance request from the Russian government and so the United States government asked the Russian government for documents to prove the case. And what happened. Then was that the Talia Talia Veselnitskaya effectively goes into the office of the Russian government. Were where she's an agent of the Russian government instead of the Russian government replying them to the Department of Justice. The tally of vessel Miss Guy Replies to the Department of Justice and she says we're not going to give you those documents And then she makes up a fake story. Worry about a million Sergei were the ones who did the crime that her client was accused of. And what makes the story so fascinating is that the US Department one of justice got hold of her emails and got hold of documents of word documents with properties in track changes that show that she was the one editing the documents replying from the Russian government the US government and so she got caught red handed. And it's it's it's very satisfying to watch Her Erg indicted and a sperm. And and and make all these crazy comments after being indicted by the US government. Yeah exactly and it does actually give us a proof that she is connected to the Kremlin pretty strongly And I also wanted to ask you. Do you know of any of the previous on real estate deals in New York were in any way connected acted to trump or anyone in his family like Kushner. Well there's a sort of kit there serve connected very obtuse way The the only way I can say they're connected is that presumed bought a bunch of properties from a company called if I is a company owned by level of is and love Leviathan AF. I were involved with jared Kushner in the New York Times building transaction a couple years earlier. But I think that's a pretty tenuous this connection if any at all. Yeah definitely a kind of a third or fourth. You know times removed from that. But I was just interested because I I wasn't able to find a lot of information on it Something else interesting. Is that trump fired preet Berrara. Who was handling this case or overseeing it two days I think before the case went to trial and then shortly after that the case was settled Why do you suppose do you think? Did you find any odd. Anything about that I didn't and I think the case settled mainly because the The the US government were were able to get three times the amount of money that they had attracted due to New York in a settlement. So that they're able to track two million dollars of dirty Russian money coming into the United States and prevot zone settled for six. I guess they originally frozen fourteen and so their idea was why not take just six instead of risking a jury trial for the fourteen and then possibly as we ended up having to pay the other side's fees if the jury trial goes the wrong way okay that makes sense and to your point about when you know. Vessel at sky was caught red-handed coordinating With Russia on this response to the court that happened back I think in two thousand fifteen. Why do you suppose they waited? Until this past December knbr to indict her well so so they didn't know about it until last year all this information came out in. NBC News report about a year ago and after the NBC News report. I would imagine that the I I was gobsmacked when I watched this show where where they are actually had the documents. NBC News The documents documents. And I'm sure that the people the US Justice Department of the same reaction. I did and It I would say it's actually lightning. Speed they on in my own observation of how quickly cases get put together at the. US Justice Department a year from from Recognition of a crime to an indictment as is a pretty fast just moving thing and so. I don't think there's anything usual about that. Okay that's good to know. I you know that was one of the big questions that a lot of our listeners had is why it took so long but that seems to be along the timeline tracks of how the Justice Department operates. 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How do you think the trump tower meeting with Veselnitskaya figures figures into this story and I mean what do you make Manafort's notes during that meeting which included your name and something that said value in Cyprus as inter enter among other things what do you make of all that well so I get a lot of the lot of the the. The press reported that vessel sky was is being indicted on a separate matter than the trump tower meeting. And that's just not true. The Talia Vessel Midst Guy had one basic goal or sort of two two goals a under one heading which was To discredit me. And discredit Sergei Magnitsky on behalf of Vladimir Putin and to have the Magnitsky Act repealed that was her name as which he was tasked with in the United States and she was operating on a very aggressive Planned to do that and her lying in In this court case and this obstruction justice was part of that and going to the trump tower or meeting meeting with Donald Trump junior jared Kushner and Paul Manafort with a request from Putin that if if Donald trump gets elected Would he please please repeal the Magnitsky Act is all part and parcel of the same thing. Okay so it's about you know lifting sanctions. Yes so just the understand. The context Vladimir Putin is one of the richest men in the world. He became rich by killing people stealing assets imprisoning earning people etcetera like. He did with Sergei Magnitsky. He's gotten so rich. He keeps all that money. Offshore and Magnitsky Act says that people who commit human rights abuses abuses can have their money offshore frozen as of Ladimir. Putin feels very personal about this and Vladimir Putin as a lot of money that can be frozen offshore and And so after the Magnitsky Act passed in two thousand twelve Vladimir Putin issued a a foreign policy White Paper Strategy Baber about his foreign policy for the world and he said that repealing the Magnitsky Act was his single largest foreign policy priority with the United States and so this is something which he feels very very personal about he really wants to achieve. And he's ready to go to great lengths with all sorts of different operations to get there. Yeah absolutely absolutely And one of the things that I was wondering about that I had I had read was that And I wanted to ask you. Does the Magnitsky act still allow the president of the United States eight to veto individuals on the Oh fach sanctions list while the magnitsky act works. Is that the State Department. And the Treasury Department's Are tasked with putting together the list of people to be sanctioned and every year At in December the Magnitsky Act should be updated dated to add New People. Strangely this year didn't happen. Not so strangely. The reason it didn't happen is that everybody working in the sanctions team is on on a furlough Because of the government shutdown but because because this is an executive decision the president can block people from that are being proposed by the State Department or the Treasury Department The president in theory can take people off the list if if he wants to and And he has pretty much unlimited latitude. The only thing the president can't do is repealed. The magnitsky Act Magnitsky Act was passed just as the act of Congress is sociable law to disappear. It would require an act of Congress to repeal it. I stay and That kinda ties into this week When the Secretary of Trump's treasury Steve mnuchin gave a closed door briefing to Congress about lifting sanctions on Oleg Deripaska Can you tell that's how the Magnitsky Act will play a role. Maybe helping block that lifting of sanctions. Well so th th th the Pasta was sanctioned under the cats the law which which was the election hacking law not the Magnitsky Act but it uses the same exact treasury tools to sanction people. And it's an extremely greenlee extremely powerful tool because it by going after the richest people in the richest Russians by putting them on the sanctions list. It's it's absolutely devastating now. this this whole deripaska situation is very very unpleasant and for me to watch because DER PASTA FOR ANY observer of Russia. We all know that he is effectively. at Alter Ego Putin he's a guy who's like private sector arm of the Putin regime. He does stuff in the private sector that you know for Putin Putin Putin couldn't do because he's president and so by sanctioning. Dr Pasta was really a sort of like a neutron bomb going off over Moscow and the fact not that they're now discussing lifting part of the sanctions against THERAPA SCA is a very very ugly development. And all all the justification so they're using for wider lifting sanctions. Don't make any sense to me. Yeah us they don't make sense to us either. and It just seems like another way. That just seems like one of the many ways. They're trying to circumvent These sanctions well. I mean th the Ju- just just in case people don't know the arguments that they're making they're basically saying that Holy Dare Pasta owns an aluminum company. a energy company and some other bits and pieces and the treasury. Mnuchin saying you know we. We mean to sanction him. But we don't want want to destroy the livelihoods of people working in these companies and therefore what they're saying is that it. He reduces his ownership stake stake from seventy percent to forty five percent than that will make the treasury comfortable that he doesn't control the company's anymore but that's just nonsense sense anybody who spent more than five minutes on Wall Street or even know somebody on Wall Street knows that for owning forty five percent of a company means you control the company and so the idea that that somehow he doesn't control it if you bring him down below fifty percent is just a week sort of We excuse to basically give him a huge gift right and that and didn't I read that. VDB was actually buying a lot of these shares. Of course in the is going to buy shares and there's going to the A guy named Lord ever British Guy. Who's been who was like his personal concierge? who's going to be the trustee at all is going to be as you know it's all sort of smoke and mirrors and the and the reality is that they're all just snickering in the background thinking that they legged us over one more time. Well I hope Congress presses this issue Because it's it's disturbing to me that they're even thinking about lifting sanctions on on him or Rusalka or any of his companies but One last first thing I wanted to ask you about you spent the greater part of your time on activities in support of the Magnitsky Act which pretty much passed the Senate unanimously. I think there were two holdouts. Famous famous holdout was Bernie Sanders. I was wondering if you've ever had occasion to speak with him about that. Vote and do you know why. He opposed it I do not know. And I you know during the previous election when when some of my left wing friends were feeling the bird I would remind them. I say this is a guy who voted against the magnitsky. Act I I. I don't I don't know why he did that but I hold it against him. I mean it was ninety eight to two vote. Yeah I've heard both sides onto that story and some folks say that he was He voted no because it didn't go far enough Gave the executive too much power. But I I haven't been able to confirm that with anybody that doesn't make any sense to me all right before I let you go. Can you tell us about your book. Read notice so my book read notice. is a an account of of how I ended up in Russia How I started my business in Russia? How for while it was a an amazing and successful business and then I encountered appeared the most horrible corruption anyone could ever imagine And the Russians were stealing everything. I tried to fight the stealing in. That led Soobee being being expelled from the country. My company seized my lawyer. Sergei magnitsky arrested tortured and murdered and then the last third of the book is is my fight for justice which culminates in the passage of the Magnitsky Act. which is the thing that that Putin hates more than anything It's a IT'S A it's a book which You'll you'll learn a lot about Russia you don't have to care about Russia to read it because it it it's just a fascinating uh-huh terrifying story all the way through absolutely it is terrifying. I encourage everybody to pick up. That book read notice. I also encourage you to watch bill browder testimony to Congress from twenty any seventeen and listen to episode two she wrote. It's all about the Magnitsky Act and bill browder testimony CEO of Hermitage capital and author of Red Notice. Bill Browder Bill. Thanks for joining us on Muller she wrote thank you. The daily beans is executive produced and directed by AG Jordan Coburn and engineered edited by. Mackenzie Mozelle MS Ellis. Turbines Industries Are Marketing Manager Executive Assistant Production Social Media Direction is Amanda Reader Fact Checking Research by AG Jordan Coburn and Amanda Reader. Our music has written performed by. They might be giants. Are Web design and branding or by Joel reader with moxy design studios and our website is daily beans pod dot com.

Putin Putin Putin US Sergei Magnitsky Bill Browder congress US Justice Department Talia Talia Veselnitskaya Magnitsky Russian government Trump Bill Browder Bill Russia Paul Manafort treasury jared Kushner president Hermitage capital CEO New York Car Insurance
Bill Browder and Jago Russell Debate Interpol and Authoritarian Governments

The Lawfare Podcast

49:32 min | 1 year ago

Bill Browder and Jago Russell Debate Interpol and Authoritarian Governments

"Regime commits murders. They do it in country. They do it outside the country. They do financial crimes criminal enterprise. And so it's effectively by allowing Russia to be a member of INTERPOL, you're allowing criminals to have access to your information. I'm Benjamin witness. And this is the law fair podcast, March sixteenth two thousand nineteen Bill Browder human rights campaigner fo of Ladimir Putin seems to get arrested whenever he travels abroad as a result of red notices and diffusion orders issued by Vladimir Putin through the INTERPOL police organization. These incidents have highlighted the abusive INTERPOL via thar, -tarian governments. And they raise a really important question. Should we be participating in an international police organization with governments that use that organization to harass and arrest their enemies on the show today, we have to really thoughtful people on this subject with somewhat different points of view, although a lot of common ground Bill Browder himself along with Jay, go Russell. The head of an organization called fair trials which has worked to reform INTERPOL and make it less susceptible to abuse. Bill argues for kicking the bums out having police cooperation only between countries that observe civilized norms of law enforcement. Jay, go makes the case for mending not ending an inclusive international police organization, it's a great discussion of a complicated issue. And it's our four hundred episode whether it's really are four hundred episode. We don't know, but we're calling it episode four hundred it's the law fair podcast episode four hundred Woohoo, Bill Browder and Jay go Russell debate INTERPOL, and authoritarian governments. So guys I want to start by just having you both lay out the parameters of the dispute what is agreed upon between you and what is not. Agreed upon so Bill give us the case against INTERPOL. And what is you know, what is the problem here? And then Alaska Jay, go to sort of give us which part of that he agrees with and which part of that he thinks is incorrect so INTERPOL is the international police organisation. It's inferior a quite useful and and positive contribution to society because the main purpose is to catch fugitives. If somebody let's say commits a crime in the United States, and then flees to Canada INTERPOL is supposed to catch them as they crossed the border or do various other types of things. And so it's a way for von force -ment to work together. Internationally to catch bad guys. The problem is that every country in the world, minus one or two is a member of INTERPOL and not every country in the world. Has the same standards of rule of law decency and honesty as as other country. And so I have a lot of personal experience with this. Because I have over the years become one of the prime enemies of Ladimir Putin. I became his enemy after my lawyer. Sergei Magnitsky was murdered. And I spent the next few years fighting for Justice for him, which led to something called the Magnitsky act, which Putin hates more than anything in retaliation for that. Vladimir Putin has used Interpal we're coming up now to the seventh time where they've tried to use the INTERPOL arrest warrant system, and there's several different types of restaurants show. Go into a second to have me arrested and INTERPOL in theory has a safeguard against this. I say in theory, which is a constitution, which says that countries shouldn't use inner bowl to arrest political opponents or. People for religious reasons or for military reasons, and Mike has been clearly defined as a political persecution case Vladimir Putin is clearly out to get me because of what I've done with the Magnitsky act. And so in theory INTERPOL shouldn't ever be used to have me arrested, but that has not stopped Vladimir Putin from using the INTERPOL system seven times, the first time was was in in may of two thousand thirteen after the Magnitsky act was passed INTERPOL about a week later ruled it to be politically motivated in hit admissible in came back again on the same case in July of two thousand thirteen again INTERPOL ruled inadmissible and on and on and on and on I was recently arrested in MADRID Spain in may of last year as I was going to the Spanish prosecutor on his invitation to give evidence about Russian organized crime in. Pain, and I was arrested before my meeting on a Russian INTERPOL arrest warrant and most recently in the last few weeks Russia has wide for the seventh time. And so what do you do in a situation like this? This is kind of like the United Nations where Venezuela and Saudi Arabia on the Human Rights Council. Here you've got Russia, which is a full full paying member of INTERPOL just repeatedly and continuously abusing the system, and it's a really bad situation in and I I've been lucky in the sense that I have I have very high profile the media's very interested in me. My case is very clear cut. But for every me who's well resourced high profile with great media coverage. There's many small human rights activists Justice activists environmental activists that don't have all the benefits that I have that are being chased up rounded up all over the world by Russia. Let me ask you about that. I mean, you know, your case has been. Very celebrated, and you know, Russia can be annoying and inconvenience you, but at the end of the day, you tweet out or send a message out that another red notice or whatever has gone out, and you know, the the world kind of mobilizes really fast. How much of this is a Bill Browder Putin problem, and how generalize -able is the problem? I e r u the tip of a very large iceberg, that's the visible tip. How many people are being oppressed by this sort of, you know, Toronto governments abusing the INTERPOL process. Well, the answer is many many many people come to me, and and Jay go who's on our who's with us today. Who's good friend is is in the business of helping out those people that don't have the same type of of profile that I do. And and he's got some unbelievable stories of. P of of people from Russia and from any other countries that that have this that are being chased by by oppressive dictatorial regimes. And I would say that Russia's probably one of the biggest abusers. But maybe not even the biggest abuser. I mean, I've heard these unbelievable stories about how Turkey is air to gone who's chasing up. Anybody who he doesn't like through INTERPOL is just issuing these read notices and diffusion notices like like candy. And so this is this is a major major problem. Many you only know about the ones, you know, about, but you know, the NS Kanter a Turkish basketball player who's living in the United States is on the INTERPOL system because he's criticized era gone where you have in Australia football player from Bahrain who is on the INTERPOL from Bahrain for for criticizing the government. He was arrested in Thailand you hear about the sports stars. You hear about the big hedge fund managers, but for everyone of us. Us that you hear about others. There's literally thousands of people were being illegally persecuted. Using this this system by INTERPOL, and it's a real shame because INTERPOL serves extremely valuable purpose? Which is you don't want people committing crimes in your country to be able to get away in other countries. It's like a public swimming pool. The moment that that people are pissing in the pool then wants to swim in it. And that and that's the problem with all these countries that abuse the system. All right, J, go reach part of that formulation. That's a pretty damning formulation of the case. It's an international organization that supposed to be assisting governments in going after fugitives assisting Attaran governments in going after dissidents for political reasons which part of that do you buy and which part of it is in your judgment. Overstated or or incorrect. I agree with with bills and office that actually. What happened is that into pull has been weaponized by certain states to go off to exile, dissidents and has been highlighted fat Charles represented, dozens of people now for most countries from Venezuela in Egypt and Indonesia comes in central Asia. Russia ball, right and better roofs. You know, you name it huge number of countries have been misusing info systems, perhaps emphasize a few points. So one would be they'll mentioned as one of the weaknesses of of INTERPOL, it's global membership. In terms of the failure of many of the one hundred ninety four member countries into to that Fadia to to respect the rule of law and basic human rights pundits. I agree that creates huge challenges into poll, but actually it's another. It's also one of the things that makes INTERPOL valuable Interpol's mission is connecting please for a safe world. And it's global region it's global membership. Sure. It creates huge China. Hinges? But it's also is what makes this an important and useful organization for the world's please. I mentioned countries Russia is a country that is abusing the system, and we see lots of cases of abuse from Russia, but it, but it definitely not the only one the other point. I just I'm facilities is, you know, the situation with abusive into poll, you know, has been systemic and significant and what emphasize that was it into poll has finally started to wake up to that. So it has made some quite significant improvements in the past three or four years to try and insulate itself against being abused by these countries, and some of those some of those changes are already having a significant impact. So we now have protections for refugees. So people that have signed him can can get off into lists. And shouldn't be on them. We have integral reviewing. Red notices before I suck you late it they used to allow countries to just update these things onto its databases straightaway. Without any prior review tool and also really souped up the oversight mechanism the redress mechanism the price you co if you'll subject red just to try and get it removed. I mean, it's it's still not working brilliantly. There are still huge challenges. But into pulleys is starting to recognize the problem. I'm really what it starting to is is to recognize that it needs to not just have rules and its commitment to political impartiality into him. Right. As kind of a addressing that you kinda put on put on top of into. But does actually really meaningful rules about how the police have to cooperate the rules. They have to abide by if in supposed to work, and so it's really giving some taste to those rules and making so that complied with not that that's a tough job principle. It stuff of the work. But that's a huge multi. All right. So it sounds like you guys basically agree on the nature of the problem. And so my question is Bill. Do you buy the progresses happening? Or is your sense that the situation is a little bit more primitive and raw than that. Well, coming back to this whole international organization thing just to give you an example, the guy who was responsible for all of the attempts to have me arrested from Russia. His name is Gordove. He he was working in the Russian prosecutor's office. And now the same guy is working in the inner poll commission for the control of files, which has the quality control commission to vet whether these notices her politically motivated, so you have this guy who's seven times of use the system to try to have me arrested. For bladder Putin. And he's now the guy that I've got to appeal to to say that this is politically motivated that's absurd. It's like it's like having Saudi Arabia on the human rights commission at the United Nations. And so yes, INTERPOL has changed some of the rules, and yes, for example, they have to read notices so what does Russia? Do. There's two types of notices. There's a red notice a diffusion notice. So if the red notices are now being vetted, and they can't get them through on me so easily they start issuing diffusion notices, and so just imagine, you know, the the the Russians the Putin regime is a criminal regime, and they're just looking for whatever easy loopholes. There are. I mean, look Russia even tried to have their own person become president of INTERPOL. So so it's it's it's a it really is kind of flawed because of its international nature and the only way to fix that is is for the civilized countries. The world to affectively kick charge of this institution and put in place really strict rules for the uncivilized countries. So they can't abuse. It aren't too before. We before we go on home in on that idea. That proposal Jayco just walk us through. What is the difference between diffusion order and a red notice? So that we're all sort of talking on the same basis here. She'll so a red not says a formal interpose stems stamp of approval digital wanted personnel that so if if INTERPOL issues one of those that goes to every member country into Paul and has intels approval diffusion is kind of informal version of retinitis sent out more like kind of Email and countries console life, which all the member countries into pull that goes to impractical terms. The impact is is is very minimal everything's tool. So if you mentioned a an officer at a bullet point that recognize the difference between retinas diffusion, they just see something that's come through into poll, which says that person is wanted. So, you know, the process is different for guessing one of these things out that the impact on individuals consent is huge. And she Charles some time has been arguing for the same kind of a proper review process. Of the fusion's police now doing for readiness says because as as Bill highlights a country do seem to be using the fusion's NATs around the protections. That are being put in place for red nights. I think the number of diffusion doubled last year, which is perhaps in response to the fact it's harder for countries to get run notices. So I mean, there was a huge challenge then, but let me just just to highlight the point about how difficult. This problem is imagine that one of the people who is a a Russian GRU hacker who Bob Muller indicted in for interfering in stealing DNC and Hillary Clinton campaign emails and who is now safely in Russia. Travels abroad. Right. The mechanism by which the United States might well get custody of that person is by having used a red notice or diffusion to a bunch. Of other countries to let them know. Hey, you know, this Jay go Russell character is wanted, you know, and we use that system on a regular basis is that fair subsidy fair, you know, it's a this kind of thing is huge important until for people to use an exactly that kind of scenario, and we expect when we send out that notice that countries and the agency itself are not gonna spend a lot of time looking behind it other than the fact that there really is an indictment, and we expect a certain deference to our criminal Justice system. And maybe later they'll be an extradition process in which we have to sort of justify it. But as an initial matter just detain the person, we don't expect that the agency is going to spend a lot of time looking behind our arrest warrant, and so then you turn that around and you say in a world where states kind of exp-. Checked comedy. How can we demand that kind of deference? And then also say that the agency shouldn't be showing it to Ladimir Putin when he issues a diffusion for Bill, right? Yeah. Well, I think this is exactly web bills comments around the country record come in. You know, if you are a country that has not repeatedly misused the red notice system, then you might take into pole to process your request very quickly. I mean, not doesn't mean look tool, but it should price it quickly. And I think is I'm -solutely writer that should be more diligence in the case of countries whether has been a pattern of abuse. I completely recognize that needs to be a process of forgetting information out of the world's please quickly. But given the human impact of these things, but taking any wet countries are known to be misusing the system for political purposes. I think into politics to maintain its credibility. You know, have to do the job of checking that it's not. Politically motivated and not not gonna always be easy. You know, some cases, you know, in a gray area. But there are many cases that we've seen getting through the net that have been into approved where actually any basic Google search would show that this person is a prominent political opposition leader or human rights activist. So I think I think that doesn't need to be scrutiny by pope before things send town, and I think the degree of scrutiny has to relate to the track record of the country in question. So it's it seems to me if there's an area of difference between the two of you here. It is chiefly over how redeem -able the system is you bills sounds quite pessimistic about the idea of reform of the organization, and has a, you know, the example Bill that you sight of the guy who sending out red notices for you now being in charge of political vetting of of red notices is a pretty powerful. Negative example. So I guess my question is to Bill how pessimistic are you that? There is any that there's any structure available in which, you know, countries like Russia air Dewan Turkey could meaningfully and usefully participate. And should we just exclude them from it? Let's start there. And then I'll I'll explore your answer. With Jay go. Well, so so I very interesting study by by Ted Brahmin, who's also an expert in this from the Heritage Foundation where he looked at at sort of the good countries of the world democratic countries that world versus the bad ones dictatorships, and he determined that that some very high number. I think it was like ninety percent of the budget of INTERPOL actually comes from the good countries of the world. So when you know, it's always everything's always about money at the end of the day. And so the good countries of the world, can basically if they wanted to and they wanted to be forceful about this change the rules of INTERPOL to to make it functional. So doesn't get debased by these types of things. And so then the question is what what how do you change the rule? So it doesn't get debased. And I would argue that it's it's probably no different than than any other. Like, the International Olympic Committee if a country routinely cheats in the Olympics like Russia, did they got suspended. And then they had to prove that they weren't cheating anymore to be led back in. And and and there's there's a lot of people who have a lot of bad things about the Olympic Committee in on certainly one of them. But but the idea that that Russia was actually suspended from the Olympics is a very powerful analogy. And so here you've got a situation where Russia that there are there at the moment, there is no consequences to go after Bill Browder seven times or eight times nine times. There's nothing bad. Don't give them any ideas. And so so why would they why would they change their behavior? The only way that people change their behavior. If there if there are rewards for good behavior sanctions for bad behavior and the rewards for good behavior. As Jay go said that your your notices should be approved in put out almost immediately. And the sanctions for bad behavior is no you can't use the system if in until you've proven that you fix yourself and from my. Perspective that that's the way that you have to do it in order to to create a checks and balances and risks and rewards for for different countries doing things and probably Jacob argue or others would argue. Well, you want Russia in the system. I'm not sure that that you need them in the system because they don't extradite or arrest fugitives. Go into Russia in if you know look at Litvinenko look at these two guys who are down in Salisbury doing the script poisoning as are the Russians handing them over. No, the Russians don't hand over anybody any fugitives in their country. And so it's not as if we're somehow creating lowering the standard of international law enforcement if you create this penalty for Russia. All right. So Jayco do you by that? What would be line not just take the position INTERPOL should be a cooperative international organization of countries with reasonably civilized law enforcement apparatus that are not. Not using them to oppress dissidents, and it should cooperate episodically. And as a matter of its own convenience if at all with countries that do not observe those norms. Why is that not the right answer here? When I mean, the first thing to save is those kinds of institutions exist already. So they're all already so EuroPol, which kind of in the United States and another engaging. They're all those kind of mechanisms for a close democratic countries to cooperate, and they write much more closely through those mechanisms because there's a high level of trust to me, the big challenge Harys, whether you stop in terms of who you suspend and at the end of the process of going through the list of bad countries What've, you got left, and do you have a global policing organization left any longer? I think if it were Russia as an isolated example, it would make sense to kind of have this conversation about suspending Russia or changing it. Formal engagement with into poll, you know, China's being misusing the system took his misusing the system. Egypt has Venezuela. Has you know, the list goes on and it's not a static position either. You know, I think the world is. More complex than good, countries and bad countries and rule of law countries and non role of low countries, you know, maybe if you're talking ten years ago, you would think that Turkey was on on the road to becoming a rule of low country, and what's happened since I think it's it's a complex situation. And I think we need global police cooperation, and again, I completely agree with Bill these v Russia, not extraditing its own citizens, and the the injustice that can create. But actually, we do want rush to share information through INTERPOL, even if it's not a resting people Russian citizens based on red nose. We won't mechanisms for Russia to share with US place information about people that might be dangerous on the streets of New York or Washington, that's not to say, we shouldn't act robustly to fix into pole and to make sure there is a proper rules based system there. I think that's crucial. But I think we need a global a global policing organization. I think we need global corporation to fight crime. And I think it's possible not easy. But it's possible to do that within a rules-based system. And. Yeah, that does mean the countries that are providing the majority of into polls funding need to really demand. I think they've made a policy choice. The US Europe has made a policy choice in the past to be relax about this to not take the rules seriously, and to just accept that they'll be collateral damage from time to time in a few individuals lives will be messed up the results of these abusive retinitis, and I think those countries ready need to take it seriously. Now, they ought to be ring-fencing some funding. Principal to make sure it's is only using that funding to review read notices it needs to make sure that into poll looking with more diligence requests from countries that are repeatedly abusing the system, I think it should demand more transparency. I don't see why we is the kind of global community shouldn't know, which countries have repeatedly being found abuse the system, I think we'll we all to know that. And. A country like the United States, Australia number of countries still acting and detaining people on the basis of politically motivated and abusive read notices so we can actually start by looking at what we do in our own countries in terms of of not, you know, cozing detention and human rights abuses by acting on red notices from countries like Russia or Egypt that we never abusive. So I think I think we don't want to end up without a global policing organization, but we need to end up with a global place organization that works and is insulated from abuse. Okay. So I wanna follow up on that. Because it seems to me as I listened to the two of you a large amount of the question in my mind, whether we should go the sort of throw the bums out approach that Bill is advocating with with which I have a lot of sympathy, by the way, or whether we. Should go. Hey, you need to keep them in the tent because we get a lot out of having global police architecture and a sort of measure of baseline if low trust cooperation a lot of the merits of that question to me hinges on what do we get out of having Russia in INTERPOL or having bad countries and INTERPOL other than abusive, red noses, and so j go my my follow up question is leaving aside the bad stuff that we accrue as a result of having this. What is the actual value of the real law enforcement cooperation that we get from having a whole lot of bad actors and INTERPOL? Well, I mean, even about actors have legitimate political cases that they want to see so, you know, murders take place on the streets of Moscow, and, you know, drug dealing gangs, you know, coordinated through. Moscow. And actually, they're all Jetta. Lauren force -ment purposes to try and assist in the prosecution of those proper criminal cases. So I wouldn't suggest that anything like the majority of red notices or requests for cooperation coming from even bad states or abusive. And so I think there's a value in in continuing to collaborate on the basis of the these kind of legitimate uses of into pull by those states. And as I say, I think there is value in having a mechanism for sharing information from countries with you know, whose human rights records, we might have serious concerns about that to receive information from those countries to try and help bring criminals to Justice or to fight crime. And as I think that those significant benefits, and I think the changes that would need to be made at into poll to insulate the system against abuse that it's possible. You have to throw the baby out the buffalo. Try I think you can keep these benefits and and she likes against abuse Bill. Do you buy that that there are significant benefits? I mean, when you we were talking earlier you were saying, you know, hey, Russia doesn't actually detain anybody on the basis of other countries read notices and the the benefits that Jay go is just describing is really benefits that we get by helping control crime in Russia and in Turkey, they're they're not reciprocity benefits. How do you assess what how much baby there is along with the bathwater? Well, I can really only speak as an as an expert about Russia, and and Russia is a criminal state. It's it's an entire the entire apparatus of the Putin regime is to commit crimes, they commit murders, the regime commits murders, they. It in in country do outside the country. They do financial crimes they do every criminal enterprise, so effectively by by allowing Russia to be a member of INTERPOL, you're allowing criminals to have access to your information in. So I mean just to give you a repair Elec sample. We we we've been investing the money laundering international money laundering, connected to the Magnitsky murder. My lawyers murder for the last nine years, and whenever we get a criminal case opened in a country Russia than applies to that country for mutual legal assistance and asks for the case file to find out. What that what we know? And what the law enforcement of that country. Now's not because they're interested in solving the crime. But because they're interested in figuring out how to cover up for the crime. And so I can't speak for the whole system. But what I can say is that when you have countries like Russia that are abusing the interval to go after honest, people that are their enemies. In abusing INTERPOL to like figure out if they're going to get away with their crimes, I would say that Russia should be suspended and in real hard control should be put in place. So that so that it can't be abused by these criminals and Jacobs mentioning the country or EuroPol because people don't trust INTERPOL. Why should we? You don't just a system in INTERPOL where where it's it's it's rigorous where country like Russia uses it than they get suspended and the best way of being unsuspended is to behave themselves. I don't see how that's a bad thing. It's it's a it's a otherwise, there's there's absolutely no reason why any country will behave themselves unless there's real consequences for misbehavior. Okay. So Jayco the alternative in your mind to throwing the bums out is reform of the institution. Use use said earlier that there had been substantial policy changes Bill has raised a I think pretty strong prime officia concern that the implementation of those of those policy changes not all that encouraging how encouraged in your judgment, should we be by the combination of policy changes and implementation of policy change. By interpol. And when you say there is still a lot of work left to do. What's your sense of the scope of work? What would have to happen to make INTERPOL something that you could take back to Bill and say, hey, look, I, you know, I I know they issued seven read notices and diffusion orders against you. But we're actually in a different place. Now, I think the changes have been significant I think -nificant on paper and in practice. So I mean as Bill said most of the people that factuals represents people with with asylum refugees they've fled persecution. And the vast majority of the people that we've helped have benefited as a result of this new policy with an into poll the enables refugees to get removed from the system and not policies to be working very efficiently in most cases, people removed very quickly. Not some really significant change. They're all bets reviews. Read notices now on the redress mechanism the price you to complain is in the vast majority of cases, offering very effectively. So I think they all significant changes in terms of I think still needs to be done to protect system. Implementations a massive job actually, making sure that these existing rules. These rules are implemented properly being enforced requires a huge amount of work and into police still not putting enough manpower and resource behind doing these reviews of red before circulated across the globe. This body the commission for the control of into poll files that you complain to have a huge increase in the number of applications to get dates removed a huge increase from from, you know, around two hundred requests in two thousand ten to two thousand two hundred twenty seventeen and it still doesn't have anything. Like the resources that it needs. So I think we need to to see these existing rules implemented properly, we need a lot more transparency, we need a lot more transparency in terms of numbers and data which countries are abusing the system. I think I think we'll need to see that partly to see whether these reforms working, it's really understand how this this relatively secretive organisation. What I think compare s'il on key personnel. Roles before the potential Russian president was announced as the front runner for that role. At the end of last year Federal's written in pole saying it needs a much much more transparent an open process for pointing people to these roles unto roles on the CCF and that needs to involve evidence of the country that that representing abuse of the system's data on abuse of the system, but also information on on the individuals concerned so that can be proper global scrutiny. To make sure that the right people are being put into these important positions on this issue. Diffusions the that we've talked about the fact that countries seem to be able to get around the protections for read notes by using fusions. Instead that needs fixing we're being told now that that INTERPOL has implemented some new regime where doing the checks, but nobody's explaining clearly looks like, and we need we need we need robust prior scrutiny of of all the information centennial. I would just like to come back on this point about throwing out. The bundling just emphasize again, you know, it's not just Russia. And so one of the things that can send me, for example. If you have somebody the committed a horrendous human rights of use in Russia going on setup lovely comfortable life for themselves. In insight Turkey, you know, if you start suspending countries, you're all seven up suspending Turkey. Probably worse abuse the system right now than Russia. And then there's no way to pursue a prosecution of that person might have been a merger or a torture or a corrupt Lawrence official. And so I think also there's a human rights benefit to being able to use into pole onto stop creating safe havens, the people that commit those kinds of crimes, but doesn't that assume a degree of reciprocity that doesn't exist in the sense that if you're relying on the reciprocity benefits of a system like INTERPOL to address the impunity of people who are in those countries, you're assuming some degree of good faith participation of the countries in question. No. Sure. I mean in that case for that to what you need to be willing to arrest the person on extradite or prosecute them. But actually, he may well be willing to do that if they don't have a direct interest in the individual concerned. Yeah, they system is a system for circulating notifications. And the decisions on action is taken when not notification is received is is for the state concerned. So Bill, what would you need to see when you imagine a sort of throw the bums out let them back in when they reformed what would you have to see from? And let's just use Russia because it's not because it's necessarily the worst offender, but because it's the one with which you're most familiar, what would you need to see from the Putin government before you would be willing to see Russia? Be a member in good standing of. Interpol such that when they issued a diffusion it would be reasonable for the government of Spain to pick up Bill Browder in a hotel. Well, I guess what? I would need to see is is me. And in the fifty other people, I know who are not criminals who are on the red notice system to have those red notice all deleted, not not by INTERPOL. But Russia, so that we don't I constant flow people coming to my office who have INTERPOL red notice from Russia who are activists and agitators and political opponents. Who shouldn't be having to come to my office to talk to me about this stuff and Russia will abuse whatever system they have access to to its maximum possible advantage. And so j goes points are all beautiful in theory. And and Jayco deserves huge credit for for this for the rule of refugees. Asylum-seekers not being under blinding. That's his singular accomplishment. But well that's been done. I'm still fighting the seventh red notice from Russia. The seventh. I'm communicating with the commission for the control of files where Misra Dov who has been my pursuer is on the commission. It's just I mean, what what whatever the theory is. I'm right at the coalface at ain't workin. So both of you have alluded to this leadership election that happened last year in which a Russian law enforcement official was almost but wasn't a named to head INTERPOL that actually strikes me as sort of major vote of no confidence in the institution that that could have even come close to happening under the circumstances. And so Bill how pad was it? It was it was it was shocking story in an involve most me and Jay go. So Jake was the one who's who was who knew about it. I, and it was I think the election was going to be happening on Wednesday. And I I got an Email from Jay go on the Friday before the Wednesday thing Bill you wear that that a a Russian is the front runner for the presidency of INTERPOL and had no idea in north of the rest of the world have any idea, and it was and so it was one of these things where whatever's going on inner poll as Jagos there's no there's no transparency at all. And so I started calling around some journalists started calling around some other Russian dissidents and everybody was in shock, and and the way I imagined this, and I can't say for sure because I wasn't there. But, but this was how Russia was dealing the INTERPOL the same way as they deal with the with fee for the Football Association with the International Olympic Committee, which is they were going around with the lips of cash giving the guy from the Central African Republic, or you know, were Angola, you know, five thousand bucks to vote with with Russia and with Jay go in myself, and I got Mikhail Khodorkovsky involved we held a big press conference. We all started to alert the world in different policymakers in politicians got involved. They said interpose gonna be run by Russian. Lithuanian government, our parliaments if if if intervals can be run by Russian than we don't want to be members of INTERPOL anymore. And I think that that there was so much outrage around the western world. That over the course of five days Russia, which had I think locked it up lost their lockup. And thank God. The South Korean candidate was elected. But had Russia. I mean, I don't think INTERPOL would have survived that as an institution. If a Russian was was the president of INTERPOL Jada, go was was was it less bad than that in any way? I mean, if you're somebody who is going to be who is trying as you are to make the case for the non-exclusion of countries like Russia, and sort of keep them in the tent. This must have been like the worst case scenario for you. Right. Yeah. But I mean, we were hugely concerned because into pull has been making some changes that have been support for the continued reform. So the idea of having a Russian delegate leading the organization was a huge concern too. So well, then we wouldn't advocate for suspension of Russia's a country. The has been repeatedly abusing the system shouldn't be allowed to take this kind of leading role. But actually that whole episode also demonstrates too much kind of a broader issue to which is the the government's really took the ball, and that was a complete lack of transparency from INTERPOL. So it was really just a matter of days before this election happened that anybody do anything about it. And and I think well one of the key lessons for me from that whole episode was was ready. The the governments of the world needs to take, you know, take really Kathy scrutinize what's going on enter poll, they should be making noises about this. Development, you know, weeks in advance and trying to make sure the that a a much to come to that was being put forward, but they really just left it to the to the police members of INTERPOL, and considering the importance of the organization and impact on on people's human rights that was pretty dumbing to me that countries like the US and the UK and other countries in in western Europe. Just completely taken there off the ball in left the kind of the police members to to get on with it. But isn't that? I mean, this is a good point on which to end. But isn't that the ultimate problem? Here is Member State in attention. The reason the diffusion and read notice abuse as possible is that Member States aren't paying adequate attention. The reason you could have somebody get close to that election from Russia of all countries is as you just said that Member States aren't paying enough. Attention and the moment countries like Lithuania and other countries start saying, hey, if you don't clean up your act, we're getting out of this that then you know, you elect a South Korean and the problem or that aspect of the problem goes away isn't the the ultimate answer to this problem. One way or another for the Member States that actually are committed to rule of law systems to put down their feet and say, you know, we demand that the organization comport with certain norms both in its staffing and in its rules and in its implementation of the rules. I think that's I think that's absolutely right. I think the problem is that in the area of international please are terrorism cooperation, the the policy decision has been made by countries that that they'll they'll cooperate, and they wouldn't worry too much about the rules within which that corporation has to happen. And you know, into police the prime example of that. And and actually countries do need to take this stuff seriously, and they do need to enforce rules based cooperation, and I think the problems with into pole can be faced and and will be fixed. If countries really take compliance with the rules, seriously, don't wait for some big kind of new story to emerge in the press that actively monitoring what was going on and demanding that into upsets game on really provide after all that pain for this service. The into Paul really provides a quality service to the world's place by making sure that reliable information is being circulated Bill. Do you think that there is, you know, if Member States started paying attention between Bill Browder diffusion notices rather than only when you know, Mike McFaul tweets out that that, you know, his outrage at the latest. Bill Browder detention somewhere. How much of the problem does that address if if if we could get sustained attention to the institution in the interstices? Well, fortunately, or unfortunately, it's not just Bill Browder anymore. There's a lot of other headline grabbing stories to it's it generates a constant level of attention because there's so many different abuses. I mean, it just just these three stories I started out with the Bahraini football player. The Turkish basketball player myself all been in the news pretty consistently for last year. And so it's not as if anyone does replied or forget about this issue. There's a constant issue INTERPOL abuse for bad countries and needs to be fixed and whatever the structural fixes. Are that have been put in place, they're not enough, and it really does need to be tightened up dramatically. And and there's a lot of proposals out there to tighten it up. I do think that the the general secretary of inner bowl Jurgen stock as German police officer is a very capable guy began her stands the existential risk to the organization of doing stuff badly in these doing trying his. Best. But there's a so much bad bad stuff being done by the Member States that the person who's general secretary can't stop he ate. He can't tell the Russians not to issue that seventh red notice Bill Browder, they can just go and do it. So the rules need to be changed by the by the members by the shareholders by the people who put the money, we're gonna leave it there. Bill Browder gigolo Russell. Thank you both so much for joining us. Thank you. Thank you. The law. Fair podcast is produced in cooperation with the Brookings Institution this week special. Thanks to Michaela Fogel. And Matt Kahn who brought in both of our guests from London seamlessly barely even tell our music is of course, as always performed by Safiya Yan, the law fair podcast is produced an edited by gen Paci howl, and by the way, if you haven't shared it on Facebook, Twitter and what ever social media use. And given it a five star rating on your choice of podcasts distribution services. Get on that folks, you can get law. Fair merch at the law, fair store dot com. And as always, thanks for listening.

INTERPOL Russia INTERPOL Bill Bill Browder Alaska Jay INTERPOL United States INTERPOL Vladimir Putin Turkey Jayco Russia Putin Bill Browder Putin president Russell Sergei Magnitsky
Meet Vladimir Putins No. 1 Enemy, with Bill Browder

Big Brains

25:41 min | 9 months ago

Meet Vladimir Putins No. 1 Enemy, with Bill Browder

"You know the name Bill Browder. You probably know that he's considered Putin's number one enemy public enemy number one Vladimir Putin's number one enemy has been called Putin enemy number. One so I I am by some people's measurements Putin's number one. Four enemy browder was a hedge fund. CEO Oh so how does someone like that. End Up in Vladimir Putin's crossers. Yeah I've done something which is unforgivable to him. which is that? I created a law called the Magnitsky Act. The magnitsky Ski Act is one of the most important pieces of international legislation. You've probably never heard of. And it's part of the reason. Browder received the Chicago Alumni professional achievement award last year. The law revolutionized the way we go after and punish international bad actress. President trump continues to defend his oldest son for meeting with a Russian Sean lawyer last year he is said that in the meeting. The Russian lawyer Natalya Vanilla Sky Wanted to talk about the Magnitsky Act that is a twenty twelve American law that punishes Russians. Who are seen to be human rights abuses browder details his experiences in his bestselling book read? Notice it's a story that sounds like a Hollywood with movie except it's all true. So what's behind the Magnitsky Act in rolled this famous University of Chicago alone play. Getting passed in America and advocating for it abroad is all I do I. I've given my life as a businessman fulltime political activists human rights activists working on getting past countries from the University of Chicago. The big brains. A podcast about pioneering research and pivotal breakthroughs. That are reshaping our world today bill browder and how how his fight for justice changed international politics. I'm your host Paul Rand Bill. Browder story starts right here at the University of Chicago. Yes in intense and deep roots with the University of Chicago maybe too deep felt too deep at one point in my life. His father was chair of the Mathematics Department and Browder himself attended the university's undergraduate college. I think it was expected of me to become an academic like everybody but he also my family and in addition to my father my uncle bill was a mathematician at Princeton and my and e was a mathematician at Brown. All heads of their math departments wants and so is expected that I become a scientist of some sort and so I was really the black sheep in the family and you know maybe it was might have been acceptable to be in a lowly the engineer but to be a businessman my God that was like the worst thing in the world and so took me a long time to regain the confidence and respect of my father after my decision decision to go into business. I think I remember sharing and one of your Ted talks in your early forms of rebellion one was was growing Afro. What was another one that you talked about? I fall all the grateful dead around. Yeah Yeah it was But none of that stuff really upset him but but being a becoming a businessman really did that was just like the worst thing you could do. And that wasn't just about not following. In his father's mathematical footsteps it was also about communism brought. His grandfather was a leader in the US. Communist Party in the thirties and forties in his even said to have worked for Soviet intelligence recruiting spies. And I came up with this idea which which was that. My grandfather was the biggest communist in America and the Berlin Wall has just come down. I'm going to try to become the biggest capitalist. In Eastern Europe capitalism was directly anti thankful to everything his family stood for it was is the ultimate way to rebel so nineteen ninety-six browder started investment company in Russia called Hermitage capital management. And eventually we grew become the largest investment esmond fund in Russia. Browder was lauded as a financial genius by Time magazine and in Nineteen ninety-seven he was one of the best performing hedge fund managers in the world. Then just one on your later. Russia defaulted on its bonds it devalued its currency and Hermitage capital took a nosedive. I lost ninety percent of my clients money. And then after that with last ten cents on the dollar that I had left the oligarchs we're going to swoop in and try to steal the rest. So what did you do. Well I said to myself the police. I don't police the regulators don't regulate but the one thing that I can do his research these oligarchs powerful Russian businessman routinely skim money off the top of big companies so browder decided to expose it. He and his team started with one of the biggest companies in Russia. The oil giant Gazprom and so one of the things which we did was we did a stealing analysis of Gazprom and people often think of Russia's being a very un-transparent opaque place and it is in certain respects but Russia's also a country with incredible bureaucracy and all the bureaucrats collect information on everything and so we took that information and we analyzed it and we figured out what was being stolen out of gas from and how they went about doing the stealing. They found that the oligarchs oligarchs have stolen nine percent of gas. PROMS assets billions of dollars. Browder Fed that information to American journalists. Who jumped on the story and sparked an international or national scandal and in the end it created such a public scandal that Putin stepped in and fired the CEO? Who's doing all the stealing and replaced him with a new guy whose job it was not to steal deal assets he could steal other things just not assets and then the day after that guy was the new guy came on the share price? Went up one hundred thirty eight percent. At this point you would thought Putin would be okay with this as right well at this point. I didn't know what Putin was but he's he appeared to like what I was doing. Why did he like it? There's an expression Russian. Your enemy's enemy is your friend and the oligarchs who were stealing from me stealing money from me right. They were stealing power from him understood. He had come to become president of Russia but he was really only president of the presidential administration of Russia because the all arcs had privatized the power of the presidency by bribing police. Bribing army generals. Everybody was doing something for somebody else. You know. They platoons in the the army. Were building roads for the Olive Garden and police officers were finding stashes of cocaine and the trunks of of competitors oligarchs and arresting them and you know everyone was doing something for the wrong reason and so it was going well for a while and every time I would publicize scandal involving one of his enemies. macy's he would come down like a ton of bricks on his enemies and it all worked. Well the trouble was that fighter. Putin wasn't doing this Because he wanted it to clean up Russia he was doing this because he wanted to destroy the guards after Gazprom broader and his team in Hermitage did this again and again they investigated the oligarchs that Ran Russia's national electricity company. It's savings bank and several other oil companies and the exposed the theft and that worked for a while until it didn't Putin wanted to consolidate power and in October. Two thousand three. He got his moment. He arrested the richest man in Russia. A man named Mikhail Khodorkovsky Kofsky and throw them in jail in Russia. When you go on trial you sit in a cage? And they allowed the television cameras to film Mikhail Khodorkovsky the richest man in Russia sitting in a cage. Now imagine you're the seventeenth richest person in Russia. And you see a guy far better far richer far more powerful than you you sitting in a cage. What's your natural reaction? You don't want us in that cage yourself and so. In June of two thousand four whereafter Horta Kofsky was found guilty and sentenced to ten years in prison. These other oligarchs went to Putin one by one and said Vladimir. What do we have to do? We don't sit in a cage and Putin said this real simple fifty percent and and this is that fifty percent for the Russian government or fifty percent for the presidential administration of Russia. This is fifty percent Vladimir Putin at that moment in time he gave the he became the richest man in the world. Putin was now the central oligarch browder was going after he was naming and shaming Putin's own financial interests. It didn't go over very well. I was flying back to Russia from London on a weekend trip. Ironic at Sheremetyevo Sheremetyevo airport. And I've been going back and forth so many times that I had this VIP Lounge Card and I Go to the VIP lounge they give them my passport and what should have been like a three minute thing an hour later. They still haven't given me my passport back so if something's not right I'd starting to make a fuss awesome. I have a driver or they are also starting to like figure I figure out what's going on and all of a sudden four heavily armed border guards come into the VIP lounge. They grabbed me. And they frogmarched me down to the They have a little jail in the airport. And I don't know whether I've been arrested and I'm GonNa get in Siberia. The next flight back to London was at eleven o'clock in the morning and so I could sleep all night. Notice like having all sorts of dark thoughts about where this was gonna ago but I figured you know maybe like nine forty five. They probably need to take me if they WANNA give me a process my papers whatever they do in this situation like this and so so I can banging on the bars like when You know it's you know you can deport me. You better get me going. And they completely ignored me by ten thirty. I figure there's no they're not gonNA have enough time to do the processing whatever they do in deportation. And I'm convinced now. My my an Adrenalin pumping through my veins. I figure I'm going to Siberia uh and it was like at at like ten forty seven. They finally come to get me and they just stuck me. The latest marshy to flood plain stuck me in the middle seat academy and Off I went at this point. Browder was shocked. He didn't know what specifically set Putin Putin off. or how else the Russians might come after him and there's two places they could go after me one is that had a lot of people who they could arrest my employees instill in Russia in Russia Asia. And we had a lot of assets in Russia and so I had organized an emergency evacuation of my employees. I got them and their family members out and we all got to London. We got into temporary office space and then we quietly sold every last security we held in Russia. We're able to get all her money out okay. Okay remarkable handed people say why did they let you get your money out. And the answer is that they're evil but they're highly inefficient exercising their evil and the only thing. Yeah I kept. Russia was a small office and one secretary and it was there in the hopes that maybe one day this whole thing blower wishful thinking eighteen months. After I was expelled I get a frantic call from the secretary of the Moscow office and she says Bill Bill There's twenty police officers your rating the office. What should I do and I'd never been situation like this? And so the only thing I could think of was call my lawyer. I had an American lawyer in Moscow. So call the lawyer and I say I got twenty five police officers reading my office. What should I do and he said I don't know I've got twenty five police officers reading my office looking for your documents? They wanted the stamps seals and certificates. It gets for Browsers Investment Company when they found them they seize them and the next thing we know we no longer own our investment only companies using the documents seized by the police they had been fraudulently registered out of Our Name into the name of a man who is a convicted killer who let out of jail early by the police presumably to put his name these documents so at this point I'm terrified I'm terrified died not for economic reasons look money safe right but if the police are working with murders to steal our companies what else are they gonNa do you so I went and hired the smartest lawyer I knew in Russia who is thirty five year old young man named Sir Gaming Sqi Sergei Magnitsky the namesake sake of what would become the Magnitsky Act. That's coming up after the break if you're listening to big brains there's a good chance you consider yourself a lifelong learner. However you may not know about the University of Chicago's Goes Graham School and it's focused on continuing liberal and professional studies for more than a century? Graham has been a destination for lifelong learners. They offer courses online in in the classroom bringing transformative education. You Chicago is known for students of all ages to learn more about the courses certificates and degrees visit Graham Dot U. Chicago Dot when the Investment Company assets for seized browder turned to his lawyer. Sergei magnitsky and I said Sergei could you help me figure this thing out and he said yes and so he went out and started to investigate and he came back and he said I figured out there was two parts of the scam. The first sparred was they wanted to steal all of your assets but they got to them too late and you liquidated them. Yeah the second part he said they did succeed. And the second part with something. That is truly cynical so so when we were selling all of their securities after I was kicked out out and liquidating everything we had a huge profit we had a billion dollars a profit and we paid to the Russian government two hundred and thirty million dollars of capital gains tax and with Sergei discovered. was that the people who stole our companies when back to the tax authorities and they filed an amended tax return. Turn which said that. There was a mistake. Made in the previous year's tax filing these companies didn't earn a billion dollars the earned zero therefore for the two hundred and thirty million dollars of taxes was paid in error so the Russians who taken over the company applied for tax refund it was is the largest tax refund in Russian history surrogate. I were convinced this must be a rogue operation is Putin who He's a nationalist right. He's not some guy who you know. He wouldn't allow a cornelie a quarter of a billion dollars stolen from his own country. That's next seemed inconceivable. Browder thought Putin may allow money to be stolen from the company. But why would he allow money to be stolen from his government so we wrote criminal complaints to the to the heads of all the major law enforcement agencies in Russia I went to the press and Sergei went to the Russian State Investigative Committee and gave sworn testimony about the involvement of the police officers searchers in the fraud and we sat back and waited for the good guys to get the bad guys. Turns out in Vladimir Putin's Russia. There are no good guys. Five weeks after Sergei testified at the Russian State Investigative Committee the same individuals individuals. He testified against came to his home on the twenty fourth of November two thousand eight and arrested him put him in pretrial detention where he was then tortured and to withdraw his testimony. They put him in cells with fourteen inmates and eight beds and left lights on twenty four hours a day to impose sleep deprivation they they put him in cells with no heat and no window panes. It put him in cells with no toilet just a hole in the floor with a sewage. Would bubble up the purpose of all this was to get him to withdraw his testimony testimony against the corrupt police officers and get him to sign a false confession to say that he stole the two hundred and thirty million and he did so in my instruction They figure here is like this tax lawyer works in a fancy okay. Of course they'll cave. They they looked at him so this within a week and they completely misjudged Sergei Magnitsky. Sergei for him his integrity his honesty with more important than physical pain. They were subjecting him to and he refused in the torture and the pressure got worse and worse and worse and six months into this. He started to Developed terrible pains in his stomach. He ended up losing forty pounds. He was diagnosed as having pancreatitis and gallstones and he was prescribed an operation ration- which was supposed to happen on the first of August. Two thousand nine a week before the operation they came to him again and again asked him so sign a false confession and again. He refused in retaliation for that they abruptly moved him to a maximum security. Prison called Bucci which is considered one of the worst in most horrible prisons in Russia and most significantly for surrogate there was no medical facilities their says health completely broke down in winter two terrible downward spiral European pain and they refused him all medical attention and Sergei wrote and his lawyers row twenty different requests for medical attention every one of those requests either ignored or denied and writing On the night of November sixteenth. Two thousand nine Sergei Magnitsky when critical condition on that night and the authorities didn't WanNa have responsibility insperity for many more as they put him in an ambulance and sent him to a different prison cross town that had a medical wing when he arrived at the different from prison instead of putting him in the emergency room they put them in an isolation cell chained him to a bed and eight riot guards with rubber batons came into the cell And beat him until he died. Sergei was thirty seven years old and he left behind a wife and two children. Browder found out the next morning. He was heartbroken and he knew that somehow he was responsible he says of Sergey hadn't been his as lawyer he'd still be alive today and that that burden of guilt has driven me for ten years to put aside everything else that I'm doing and to use all all of my time all of my resources and all my energies to go after the people who killed him and make sure they face justice easier said than done Putin exonerated everyone involved in Syracuse murder. So browder came up with another idea. which was we can't get justice in Russia? We should get justice in the West but the trouble is the West didn't have any mechanisms the justice and so I went to Washington and I told the story of Sergei and what they did to him to a Democratic senator from Maryland named Benjamin Carton and Republican senator from Arizona John McCain and I said can we freeze their assets and banned their visas and they said yes we can and that became known as the magnitsky risky at and it I started out just as a piece of legislation for Sergei Magnitsky but as soon as it was launched other victims coming forward from Russia and saying my God you found the Achilles heel of the Putin regime this is what they care about their money abroad can can you possibly sanctioned the people who killed my my husband my brother my sister my aunt and after about a dozen calls these senators realized there is something much bigger Sergei magnitsky and they added sixty five words to the law which would sanction all Russian human rights abusers. This is what's made browder couldn't number one enemy and Vladimir Putin went out of his mind because the the next thing he did was he banned the adoption of Russian orphans by American families. And you have to understand. Why House House? How heinous that is the orphans? The Russians were putting up for adoption with a sick ones They didn't give the Americans healthy orphans. The Americans came year after year in the thousands and took these babies back and nurse them to help in Russia the orphans often die is refusing to allow them to be adopted by American American Families Vladimir Putin with sensing them to death. Vladimir Putin was so determined to repeal the Magnitsky. Act that in on June ninth nine th two thousand sixteen. He sent an emissary Name Talia Veselnitskaya to trump tower to me with DONALD TRUMP JUNIOR MHM jared Kushner and Paul Manafort with one simple request. If he became president to repeal the Magnitsky at these Russian human rights abusers have all been financially blacklisted but since then the act has been expanded to include any human rights abuser regardless of country. Here's how it works. They want to sanction you you put on something called the fact sanctions list and the moment that you get added to the sanctions list every bank in the world. Close your account. It doesn't even matter if it's American Bank or a Chilean Bank or Dubai Bankers Korean bank. That Bank doesn't want to be in trouble with the US Treasury and as they get in big trouble if they do business for somebody on the sanctions list they get fined by the Treasury. Three times the amount of business. Let's say that you have a million dollars in a bank account Europe sanctioned sanctioned individual. Your bank moves that money to another bank account. Let's say it's gone from a Swiss Bank to a Russian bank. If the Treasury finds out they find the bank three a million dollars. And what is the bank. Make off that wire transfer one hundred fifty dollars and so the moment you're on the sanctions list. You become a financial non-person in the world Financial Leper Financial Pariah. And you can't do business anywhere. In everyb- it ruins the business of any person on the sanctions list. And so everybody hates it more than anything there about one hundred fifty people around the world were sanctioned because of the magnitsky act but browder says thousands more live in fear that they will be sanctioned. It's it's devastating eating. This is like the new technology for after bad guys. And you can't imagine the number of people who are absolutely living in terror right now about possibly being sanctioned you know is in the tens of thousands you know the worst people on the planet are all absolutely terrified that they're going to get caught and sanctioned by the government and the reason why this is so valuable is that all the sudden it used to be that they could just brazenly act with impunity and do anything they wanted to do all sorts of terrible things to people people with without any consequence now all of a sudden there's a consequence and the magnitsky act just turned into a global phenomenon. Similar laws have been passed in the UK Canada and others now. It's not just about me and surrogate. It's not just Russia's about everybody and so the the leaguers in China who are being who who've been rounded rounded up concentration right against the people in Hong Kong the Venezuelan dissidents that are being the opposition there being gunned down in Nicaragua in in Myanmar this whole situation with Jim Kashogi in Saudi Arabia and other journalists. Saudi Arabia who've been murdered. Everybody now has a tool to go after their bad guys and so oh I have people from all over the world that are advocating to act. Add people to the country's a half Magnitski lists and to push for magnitsky legislation in countries that don't haven't yet tummy. So you spend spend a good majority of your time still working to promote the magnitsky act because that right has all I do I have my life as a businessman okay. I'm a full time. Political activist activists human rights activists working on getting this past countries around the world. I bet you never thought you turn out to be global activist did you never in my wildest dream. Yeah it's it's life life's life hands out different circumstances it plays Jalousie different cards. And you play those cards. Are you keeping up. Thank NACY's widow and in kids. Yeah absolutely she. She works in the office on the campaign with us is based in in London. Okay son is about to go to university. He's been he's finishes. She's education after f all trauma in London and he's now very talented young artist You know they're safe. I mean it's it's obviously knowing that no no one can ever bring back Their their dad. Yeah but Sergei Magnitsky's life his legacy Was this Sledge Association. Okay do you see. This is an ongoing lifelong goal to continue this or do you see. There's a point where you say okay. I've I've accomplished what I set Out Plus to accomplish there is so much evil going on in the world that right. That never accomplished what I set out to accomplish but I but this is a a righteous mission It's something I feel very strongly only in passionately in good about the reasons why it started were. Horrific tragedy is horrific. But it's pushed me into an area of great meaning and of course fighting over justice right is infinitely more satisfying than fighting over money. MHM brains is production of the Chicago podcast network. If you like what you heard please give us a review and narrating our show is hosted by Paul M Rand and produced by me Madoda. Thanks for listening

Bill Browder Russia Vladimir Putin Sergei Magnitsky Putin Putin Putin University of Chicago Chicago London Russia president Paul M Rand Russian government CEO America DONALD TRUMP Natalya Vanilla Hollywood Time magazine
Bill Browder

The Strategerist

39:35 min | 1 year ago

Bill Browder

"Uh-huh. Bill Browder is Russian President Vladimir Putin's number one enemy his story started after the break-up of the Soviet Union when Bill began investing in Russia throughout the years. Investments did well in the process even took down corrupt Russian businessman by publicly exposing they're frauds. But beginning in two thousand five his story takes a dramatic turn one day. He decided to win his war with the oligarchs. And and that was the moment that Putin became the biggest arc and that was the moment that our interests diverged and when interests diverge, they diverge, very radically. And that was when he and his people turn on me Russian government officials committed a two hundred thirty million dollar fraud and tried to pin it on Bill has Russian lawyer Sergei Magnitsky uncovered the fraud which landed him in jail while in that Russian jail. Sergei was tortured to death. In two thousand twelve Bill work with the United States to pass the Magnitsky act authorizing the US government to sanction those it sees as human rights vendors freezing their assets and banning them from entering the United States. Vladimir Putin has been working to silence Bill counteract his work ever since these guys just value money more than anything more than human life ready to kill from for money since his lawyers death Bill has been on a campaign to expose Putin and Russian government officials for their corruption and human rights abuses. We caught up with him about his new mission in life house Twitter following recently got him out of Jalen Spain. And how he doesn't live his life in fear. I'm Andrew Kaufman. And this is the strategic presented by the George W Bush institute. What happens when he crossed the forty third president late night, sketch, comedy and compelling conversation. The strategic list of podcast born from the words strategically which was coined by us an and embraced by the George W Bush administration. We highlight the American spirit of leadership and compassion through thought provoking conversations. And we're reminded that the most effective leaders are the ones who laugh. He calls himself a fulltime troublemaker. But I think the Wall Street Journal might have a right when they call him the man who stood stood up to Putin. Bill Browder, welcome to the strategic list. So glad to be here. We're also joined by Bush institute CEO Ken her. She happens to be a subject matter expert in the subject of Bill Browder because they've they go way back Ken how how long have y'all known each other thirty two years. I think as of now so. Yeah. Back back in the days of business school, and I were kind of troublemakers. But but capitalists trope troublemakers fails to mention is that we were poker buddies. We played poker every Thursday night and business school. And I was a lot better than him. Can't even made it into your book. Right. He did. And I think he has been writing off the paper trails of that for a long time. Right. Thank you. I appreciate that. So we're going to skip we're gonna skip that other than to say that if you lined up our classmates at the Beck in nineteen eighty nine from the Stanford business school one end of the of the hall, you you had the most ardent capitalists and predicted capitalist things from and on the complete other end of the line. You had the social Justice warriors. I think you, and I would have been very near the first end of capitalists, and how's it feel now and share with the people listening what it means to have been a capitalist. And now transitioned into a role of of social Justice. So so I was indeed the arch capitalist. I went to Russia at the end of the Soviet era and the beginning of the Russian privatization program from very weird family background. My grandfather was the biggest communist in America. So. I said I was going to become the biggest capitalist in Russia. That's literally the biggest communist in America. He was Earl Browder. He was the head of the American communist party of America, nineteen thirty nine hundred forty five and I ended up in Russia, and I was investing in Russia. And we had this spectacular return of on our fund until every till corruption kind of took over in a massive way. I tried to fight the corruption the corruption fought back and I was expelled from the country. My lawyer Sergei Magnitsky was arrested. He was tortured for three hundred fifty eight days, and he was killed and then have embarked since nine years ago after his murder on a campaign for Justice, which has can describes has put me firmly in the area of a Justice crusader, and I would argue actually in an interesting way that my business skills of made me a better. Justice fighter than many people who have specialized in that in all their life. Because some I take the same sort of no nonsense approach towards human rights, advocacy. There's I did towards running a hedge fund, but if you were to think about your conclusion after the tragic death of your lawyer and the heart of the Magnitsky act is really it's a business approach. You're you're attacking people who steal at the source of their assets. This is the crux of it. So just just to get some background out there. Sergei ski who was killed. And I came up with this idea, which was if I couldn't get Justice in Russia in Vladimir Putin made it very clear personally that there is not gonna be any Justice for Sergei Magnitski Lena to get some Justice outside of Russia. And so I said to myself, how do we get Justice outside of Russia? And if I had been. Been let's say human rights lawyer. I would've looked at the tools of the European Court opinion rights or the or some ideas of universal jurisdiction. None of which really get you any Justice. And I might have just been banged my head up against the wall. I took a different approach, and I said to myself, wait a second. Why do they kill Sergei maintenance scheme Kilgore gaming ski because then covered a two hundred and thirty million dollar Russian government corruption scheme and the guys who stole that two hundred thirty million dollars. They don't keep that money in Russia because they're afraid of it being stolen from them. They keep it in New York and London Geneva and Paris, and this is where my business psychology comes into it. I understand how these people think because their money people and they want to keep their money safe in the west. And so I said to myself the one way we could really disrupt this these criminals is to make their money unsafe. Well, how do we make their money unsafe? We get governments to freeze it and sees it and that became the Genesis of the Magnitsky act freeze assets on top of that to ban their visas. So they can't travel and live it up at the George sank hotel in Paris or the Cala develop a hotel in Sardinia where they're all congregating, and that was the the basis for the Magnitsky act. I took this idea to Washington in two thousand ten I told the story of Sergei maintenance skis murder to Senator Benjamin Carden democrat from Maryland to Senator John McCain Republican from Arizona, generally people who wouldn't agree with each other on much. But when it came to Sergei ski they were completely aligned, and they became the authors of the Sergei knit ski at. And when it went for a vote in the Senate two years after we launched it it passed ninety two four and the Senate passed eighty nine percent of the house representatives and unto. Fourteenth two thousand twelve President Obama signed into law, and that became the Magnitsky act, which is now in Putin's opinion is probably his single largest foreign irritant is thing he stated that that it's his single largest objective foreign policy objective to have the Magnitsky act repealed. So you obviously describe that in great detail, and in a really thrilling narrative in your book read notice, and which is just a fascinating read. And I encourage everybody to spend time with it because it really sheds light in a in a way that very few stories can. And it's a story that you can't make up if you sat down to make up the most outrageous fiction thriller, it'd be very very hard to come up with with your story. And there's somebody who's known you long time, it is even more improbable. But I want you to talk a little bit about the instruments of the state and the title red notice and relationship with INTERPOL and enter. Polls an obscure agency that serves a purpose on this planet. But when it's manipulated it can serve other purposes. And and I think that that is a story that needs to come out more. So after the Magnitsky act was passed vitamer Putin really got mad. He got mad at the policy, and he got mad at the person who advocated for the policy, namely me. And so the Magnitsky act was passed in December of two thousand twelve and then the first attempt to go after me from Putin came in may of two thousand thirteen we're the Russian government issued the first INTERPOL red notice request to have me arrested. So just for for everyone's knowledge INTERPOL, the international police organisation just about every country in the world, minus North Korea and Somalia belong to INTERPOL and INTERPOL basically is an organization where if a country wants to have you arrested. They type it into the INTERPOL information system and the next time you cross a border you get arrested. That's how INTERPOL works. And it's not supposed to be working for dictator's going after their enemies. It's supposed to be working for catching fugitives and probably ninety five percent of the cases. That's what it is worked for. But you've got these situations like flat Putin going after me where there was no legitimate reason for INTERPOL to be involved. He abused INTERPOL by putting me on the system, and we apply danger poll, and we said INTERPOL, this is a politically motivated arrest warrant at violates your own rules INTERPOL does have rules if I lace your own rules and should lead it and INTERPOL quickly responded, and they deleted it and said indeed, this is an illegitimate and politically motivated arrest warrant, it should be deleted. And that should have been the end of the story. And that doesn't happen. Very often that doesn't happen nearly often enough because it's not just Russia doing this. Russia does a lot by they do this. Hundreds of times Turkey is out there issuing this stuff. Like, candy, the United Arab Emirates when prince doesn't like somebody. He issues red notice. Casick's STAN as by John. This is something INTERPOL doesn't doesn't race dimmer delete them very often, not very often, and they should be leading them a lot more often. And there should be a total cleanup this INTERPOL system. And and let me tell you what happened next which is that Russia has since gone to INTERPOL seven times in total to have me arrested seven times, and the most reason was pretty recently. And so it's not like there's any punishment for them abusing the system. They just keep on coming back for more more and more abuse hoping that one day, someone was okay. And to add insult to injury last fall. Russia tried to become president of INTERPOL that they've got this like back room thing going on where the the president of inner poll determined by all the Member States and Russia was going round handing out envelopes full of cash to like little African dictatorships to get their vote. And they thought they thought they had it all wrapped up. And we heard about it for days in advance of the vote, and we created an international firestorm. And thankfully, because of the noise that I made in the noise that five or six other people made the South Korean candidate one not the Russian, but you magin a Russian as president of INTERPOL. Well, and this isn't just theoretical. You had a pretty close called within the past year. Indeed. So as I said seven times, they've applied INTERPOL I was in MADRID Spain at the end of may last year, I was invited by the chief anti corruption prosecutor to come and give evidence about how Russian organized crime proceeds from the Magnitsky murder came to Spain. He bite me to give evidence on may thirtieth. I show up on may twenty ninth check into a hotel. I give them my passport and the next morning two hours before my meeting with the prosecutor, the Spanish police come to my hotel room, they arrest me. And thank God. I had an opportune. To tweet out that I was being arrested. And so I get arrested my Twitter, I have a couple hundred thousand Twitter followers. It all went viral. All of a sudden, every journalist was calling inner poll, hundreds of journalists were calling the Spanish police, and they realized they made a big mistake. And they let me go two hours later had it not been for Twitter. I might still be in jail in Spain right now fighting Russian he'll legal extradition request. We talked about that for a second. Because you you your story is out there on Twitter. And and I encourage people to follow you because it's a story that continues to unfold Twitter today is manipulated. We have bought farms the Russians have mastered. The use of it it obviously meddled with our election, whether it impacts the result or not is an open question. But there's clearly whether it'd be the Brexit vote or whether it'd be our elections all the nationalist party, the growth the nationalist parties in Europe. There's all these examples of social media being manip-. Related here. Social media's your friend, your friend. Give us your thoughts on this age of Twitter is a net positive is it a net negative. You know, how should we think about about? How Twitter can be used or should be used and to not get us into a situation where the freedoms we enjoy are being turned against us. I guess we could call Twitter frenemy. It was it was my friend definitely in getting me out of out of trouble in Spain. No question about it. And that's because a good social network where people who are. I mean Twitter in a certain way serves an amazing purpose, which is that it used to be that the editor of the New York Times and the editor of the financial times where the curator of what what was what was important. What wasn't? They could decide. What was important? What wasn't and by having Twitter now everybody can can sort of pick their own curator's and decide who to follow. And when it's just real people following other real people that's huge net. Positive. However as you said, Ken. There's a lot of pollution on Twitter and the pollution is very simple, which is that. There are a lot of not real people. There are literally millions of accounts being set up by Russians and Iranians and also other bad actors to try to create the impression of public opinion. And and so on and that's where the problem comes in. This whole Twitter thing could be easily solved with one stroke of the pen by regulators, which is just to say that every person who has a Twitter account has to be a person and has to be proven in some way, those public. It can be at Twitter's headquarters that you know, that you have to prove that you're a real person in order to have a Twitter account. If that were the case. Then it would become a proper real reliable social network, and you wouldn't have all this nonsense, which has a disproportionate effect. I mean affectively which Witter is is if you shout some people have louder voices than others based on the how important they are or the quality of their message, and the some people deserve to have a loud shout. But some messages don't deserve that they create these artificial loud. Shouts with all these fake fake Botts generating something which looks like something's popular. And all you have to do is get rid of that. And then Twitter would be a true friend and not a friend of me. So are you are you convinced that the Russian? Just both the social network and your harassment network starts at the top. In in terms of who's going after me Russia. Vladimir Putin has made he used to pretend he didn't know me. They would they would ask what you know. Bill Browder was kicked out of Russia. And then he would say, I I don't know this person. But if if this person was kicked out, then then they must have committed crimes country, but more recently, and I would say four or five different occasions, Vladimir Putin when he hears my name or says my name you can see his forehead Furling up. You could see anger all over his face. And I've really got a special place in his mind of being one of the people that he's most irritated by and this culmination or the the the near-term climax of his anger was demonstrated at the Helsinki summit between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin at the press conference afterwards. When one of the journalists asked about what they talked about. You see he said we talked about. We talked about me Putin asking Trump to hand over Bill Browder to the Russians along with eleven US officials were part of the Bill Browder the quote, Bill Browder criminal network. And so we all know that that I've got a permanent place in Vladimir Putin's mind as some some somebody who's really done hundred skin. What was your reaction to that? What was in your head? When you turn on the TV, and you see that being mentioned. Well, my reaction was less extreme than the most people the entire American public reaction for one simple reason that it was in the first time it happened. So in October of the of the previous year knocked-over of two thousand seventeen Canada passed the Canadian Magnitsky act and after they pass GATT. He was equally perturbed angered and at a special summit for that. He holds for journalists and academics Canadian academic. Who was sort of part of his inner circle of supporters asked him a softball question about what do you think of the Canadian Magnitsky act and bladder Putin went on a rampage a five minute rampage about all the alleged crimes committed in Russia? And that that was where the the best body language of all sort of showed up. And and so for me it wasn't a surprise. It was more in fact right before the summit. I prepared a tweet that I was about to send saying I wonder if Putin is gonna be talking about me at the summit. And then I thought better I thought that's really self centered. I I shouldn't send that tweet out. Of course, not. And then there they were talking about. So we in this country take rule of law and democracy party much of it for granted. You've obviously run into a situation where that we're we're you realize much of the world you can't take that for granted. And I'm curious about your thoughts as both as a business person. And now in your campaign to really share with us how you would advise us the average. Person the average business person running a business a global business doing global trade, and whatever the how how should we react with this information that we have of your story. It's not just it's not just an interesting detective story. The you might see on a news clip. This is real life. This is the instruments of government the instruments of power the instruments of multilateral organizations. Help us. Well, when I was when I was a hedge fund manager and the largest investor in Russia, effectively in my career was very successful in that career made all of my returns and all my money in emerging markets and through this experience. I also then discovered the downside of emerging markets, which is a rack a lack of rule of law and a lack of property rights. And for me, the downside was exponential. Infant infinite in that they arrested tortured and killed my lawyer Sergei Magnitsky and from that murder and from their subsequent conduct after that murder of covering it up, and if going after the people, including myself fighting for Justice, it became so disgusting that the conduct of the Russian government that it became clear to me that everybody in me, first and foremost didn't value enough. Off the rule of law and didn't value enough property rights and from a business perspective. I don't run other people's money anymore. I'm not a businessman, but I have my own investment portfolio, and I made all my money in emerging markets. And I invest only now in rule of law countries where where a contract can be enforced police operated cetera. And I think that that as a as anybody really we cannot over estimate the value of the rule of law and anytime anyone comes and tries to attack the rule of law. We have to vigorously defend and to the extent that people are doing that in America right now one that's the biggest outrage, and that needs to be firmly defeated and I'm I'm proud of the work. We do the Bush institute around freedom and democracy and making sure that people here at home understand what a special place, this is and how we have to protect our democracy and the freedoms that come with it. I wanna take you back to the early. Nineties when when I think you were advising me on at buying some of these Russian stocks after I was being critical of of of this plays a part of the world ride. No knowledge, but really didn't want to do business. I remember you saying, but can you can make a lot of money when these countries go from God awful to just crappy. And and he said you could make five times your money, and it's still bad. And and never forgot that. And I think actually did invested you, and it was awful then crappy than got awful again. But so now so now you clearly see that bad as bad. Well, so. From an investment standpoint. And I remember that conversation vividly, and and and I it was actually. Horrible too bad horrible bad train. I call it the Nigeria to Brazil trait. And and and the answer is that that's what it was for time. It was a win from horrible to very bad to ban and on that trajectory, everyone made a lot of money. The problem was it went from bad as you said back to horrible, and you don't make money on that you make lose a lot of money. And you lose a lot of other stuff on that trajectory. And that is what happened as Russia as Vladimir Putin served firmly became the biggest oligarch in Russia. Why do you think he targeted you? Well, I don't think that he targeted me first off I think that people underneath him targeted me. And I did something which is unforgivable which is I fought back, and I started to expose all the corruption and vitamin Putin. Did they target you? You think just because you were successful rich guy in in their system. And they couldn't understand it. Well, no, I mean, it was very specific why they targeted me what I was doing. When I was investing was I became a shareholder activist with that man was to research how they did stealing these Russian companies, and then expose that research the financial times and the Wall Street Journal New York Times and and interestingly for for some period of time, I've never met Putin. But for some period of time, he actually like that because I was going after his enemies the oligarchy who I was going after were stealing money from me at the same time as they were stealing power from him when he first became president. And so he was no fan of the oligarchs in early on you were you were talking favorably about I was so I would expose the darks he would step in and do something, and I and I would sort of put my hands together. Okay. This is pretty good. I can I was punching above my weight. I was just a sort of a no nobody foreign investor all of a sudden, I would get, you know, government officials fired. I would get investigation star. We'd get presidential decrees issued through my work. And so I thought that was very powerful and Putin was very supportive of. But he wasn't supporting it because he wanted to make Russia better place. He was supporting it because I was going after his enemies and one day he decided to win his war with all the guards. And the way he went about doing that was to rest the richest oligarchy in Russia. A man named Michael Horta kofsky, the owner of Yukos. He arrested him. He put him on trial any allow the television cameras to film, the richest man in Russia on trial sitting in a cage and that and Putin's very clever about these symbol these symbolic actions. And bye bye. Bye. At creating this television image of the richest guy sitting in a cage all the other all guards were just like just horrified. Like, they they didn't want to be in that cage. And so they went to Putin. Vladimir we have to do to make sure we don't sit in that cage and Putin said fifty percent, and and that was the moment that Putin became the biggest arc and that was the moment that our interests diverged, and when our interest diverge, they diverged very radically. And that was when he and his people turned on me and they expelled me from the country, and then did this horrible crime, which led to the murder of Sergei maintenance game and. Businesses doing business in Russia. You say get out Russia is a place where you not only risk losing your money. You risk having your people arrested tortured and killed and my story is not unique. The only thing unique about my story is that I've been out there telling it, in fact, some of the journalists who were involved in your case or followed your stories are no longer alive. People who are defending or around the Magnitsky case or no longer live. There are many people who have been killed threatened. Exiled arrested is cetera involving my story and involved in other stories, and and I was just before I came to Dallas, I was in Houston giving a speech and four or five people came up to me for everyone. Houston seems to be in the oil business, and they all came up to me and said we had this deal in Russia. You can't imagine. Now, we're suing and oh my God. We just barely got out our live it cetera. Everybody has a there's no happy stories coming out of business in Russia. So speaking of stories when are we going to see the story on the big? Green. Well, it's I've been trying for wild to find the right combination. And Fred pit gonna play you. I heard a rumor. Well, Brad Pitt's definitely not good looking enough. You will see the story on the big screen. We're working on a mini series. But it's one thing I've discovered is that I've worked in Russia. I've worked in on Wall Street I've worked in Washington, and I've never never encountered a place where so many people lie so easily as they do in Hollywood. So I got a bit of work to do to get something nailed down there. So how do you think that we should be dealing with Russia? Like what's the best way moving forward to because they're a part of this world, whether we whether we want to distance ourselves or work, arm and are with them. They're a part of this world. What what what do you think is the best way to work with them? Well, what we've learned is if Latimer Putin is effectively a rogue operator. He's sending out assassins to use high-grade chemical weapons to poison people in Salisbury. He's people shot down a passenger plane killed two hundred ninety eight people over Ukraine, they cheat in the Olympics. They meddle in elections. They. They are. They're bombing innocent civilians in Syria. This is a rogue regime. This is not a country that you deal with as a as a responsible member of the international community, and the trouble is if people say, well, you know, it's a country is sovereign state. And the people kind of look like us, and therefore we should try to engage with them and convince them is not the right tactic to be. Doing all this bad stuff. And every time someone comes to Putin without approach he just laughs. And it's affecting bought him time. The only way to deal with Russia is the way we dealt with with the Soviet Union during the Cold War, which is containment strategy, and we're no longer containing them because of ideology, we're containing them because there's criminal state, and the containment has to be very clear that if they crossover certain thresholds and barriers they'll be consequences and Putin can't handle consequences because he's he's really got a small country, his military budgets ninety percent less than the United States and eighty percent of his military budget is stolen corruptions. It was like two percent of the US military budget. He couldn't handle any type of military confrontation other than a nuclear war, which which is actually not even totally out of the question because what a crazy guy is. And so he needs to be shown where the boundaries are. The boundaries have to be very explicit boundaries that military boundaries after all around. Uh-huh. States. There should be extreme financial boundaries where any money coming out of Russia needs to be vetted as if it's laundered money than Suming. It's laundered unless you can prove otherwise there needs to be technology boundaries than that need to be affected. So that Twitter and Facebook and all these things can't be used by the Russians. And if those boundaries are properly maintained than Putin's latitude for troublemaking will be dramatically reduced does that populate his own population on his side, well seen recent polls polling numbers, and usually hit the pulse that come out of Russia are so rigged and saw showing him with the eighty percent approval rating. And there's been reports lately about really popular opinion turning against him. Which is really stunning if that's. It's it's absolutely true. The most the most telling poll I saw was not about him. But about the intentions of young people in Russia. There's a poll on last week which said that forty four percent of eighteen to twenty seven year olds want to emigrate from Russia. Forty four percent. I mean, that's just remarkable. I mean that says everything that says everything, you know, you'd like Putin Putin. Nobody wants to be there. Why would you want to be in a criminal state where if you start a business against taken away from you the only way to become successful wealthy to become a criminal? Why would anyone want to be there? Right. Let's broaden the lens a little bit because you've obviously helped dissidents all over the world. And there are businesses and business people conducting their lives, how should human rights and and social issues, I'll call it. How should if you're running a business, and you have customers and suppliers and transporters of all over the world. How should you factor in human rights into your business value chain? Well. As a business person. And I was a business person. You know, your job is not to think about human rights. Your job is to think about maximizing profits is not part of your mandate. However, and I'm proud to be the source of this. I can create a really unprofitable situation, and I have for business people who don't think about human rights, and let me give you an example. So the menu ski act imposes US federal fach sanctions on people who commit human rights abuses, and various other sanctions about Russia have basically been modeled as copies of the Magnitsky act. And so there was an example recently where seven Russian oligarchs were sanctioned in April of two thousand eighteen for hacking and fearing in the US election, providing support to the Putin regime that did that and one of the all guards had a billion dollars on account at Credit Suisse. In zurich. And so that created a problem for Credit Suisse because the Garth and said, hey, can you do you mind transferring my billion over to gas from Bank so that I can keep it there and Credit Suisse said, wait a second. If we do that, then we'll be in violation of US sanctions, and we're from violation of US sanctions than the US treasury could find us three times the amount of money that we've moved three billion dollars. So on one hand, they could be fined three billion dollars for moving the money on the other hand, this is Switzerland is under sanctions, and and by the way, the upside for them as one hundred and fifty dollars. That's what they get paid for wire transfer hundred downside of three billion and trae risk reward expert, but it gets worse than that. Because the all of his money. So he can then say, listen, I was about to invest this in a project that was going to triple myself, and therefore the the courts have to award him that those damages and so so if you're the president of Credit Suisse in your in this damn. If you do damned if you don't situation. What's your natural reaction going to be you're gonna go around to all of your account officers and say I want to clear out everybody who might ever have any possibility of being involved in human rights abuse because I don't want this as an unprofitable damaging situation. And that's the kind of thing that can be done. And that's what a profit maximizing corporate leader has to pay attention to. And I feel very proud to have created a situation where I'm forcing these guys who think about human rights, even if they don't want, right. And that's also it's also evidence of how interconnected the world is just through the money transfer business, and how what a pivotal role the United States plays in the US banking system in the us capital markets. So even if you do think you're way off shore chances are you're really not well, no every Bank in the world. If no Bank in the world wants to be cut off from the US banking system. And that's what happens. In fact, the swift system, which is the autumn attic money transfer system when when we threatened to. Remove Russia from the swift system. Putin said, I will I will treat that as tantamount to an act of war. And it was always doing was taking Russia off the money exchange system to show you how well series, and as Gary casper off the famous chess champion, who's a Putin dissident has said it's these days we're going to be fighting them in the bank's not funding them with tanks. Is it as simple as association between power and money to Putin? Like, you mentioned we're talking about all these things that take money out of his hands. What does this OC is that just pure one to one money equals power in Russia is a little more basic than that, which is that these guys just value money more than anything more than human life ready to kill for money without kill lots of people for money. And so if money is the most valuable to them, then you want to go after the thing that they've covered the most which was that money. There's no ideology here whatsoever. Putin is not and ideal issue. He has no ideology he when he talks. The Soviet Union. That's just pure scripting stuff because that's that's kind of stuff. That sounds good on TV. He just cares about money anyone's power. So we can have money, and he's very mundane person. I was asked oftentimes what is he like Hitler, or stolen and the answer of. No, he's he's like Pablo Escobar without mini series. But with nuclear weapons, we takes us back full circle though too Bill Browder, not the hedge fund manager, but the human rights activist and do you how well do you sleep at night? Are you scared of what Russia's going do to you? Or do you are you at peace? I sleep like a baby I wake up every two hours. The answer is seriously that I I am I do not live in fear because if you live in fear, you're already have given them ninety ninety five percent of what they want. I'm standing with my head held high. And I'm going right back at them. Because that's what I that's what Sergei Magnitsky deserves having taken much greater risk than I'll ever take. And they may do something horrible to me at some point. I hope not. But I'm not going to stop doing what I'm doing because we're gaming ski deserves Justice. What's great? Here's what we look at look as looking at your Twitter feed earlier, and it's become about a lot more than just Magnitski to you. You're you're standing up for all all sorts of different people who are in similar positions now. Well, I've seen now where the system doesn't work. There is INTERPOL. There is a a Barney football player soccer player who fled to Australia was granted asylum by the stray Lian, government and asylum political asylum. And the Bahrainis put him on the INTERPOL list. And you're not even allowed to two intervals not even allowed to put a political refugees on their list. And he got arrested on his honeymoon in Thailand. Sitting in Taizhou on the ties are talking about handing him over back to buy rain to be tortured and Bahraini prison. That's just outrageous. And I. How can I not intervene on his behalf when it's so obvious so clear, and and has got it touches on all the same issues. I've had to deal with I can if I can help people who had to do who. Maybe don't have the experience that I have dealing with issues. I should. And I get great satisfaction. If I can if I can solve problems of these people. So can when you hear that passionate his voice, what do you think? Do you think about the the kid Stanford MBA school? He was that passionate. Which is why he could never bluff at a poker game. But but I do remember being with you later in the day in two thousand nine when you received the call in the middle of the night from Sergei keys mom saying that he had died, and you said to me, I now know what I'm gonna do with the rest of my life. And and it changed you. So so my my poker buddy, Bill Browder, became social activist Bill Browder. So he's a you've added a dimension to yourself, and that that is absolutely amazing an admirable, and we're excited at the at the Bush center to be able to to really share this story, and and to give it the kind of platform that it needs and to see it unfold and still unfolding and hopefully it unfolds to the positive, I know you're working on a second book, and and the miniseries, and we hope that this story continues to be told because it's one that needs to be told. Thank you very much. Learn more about Bill and his store you can pick up the. Number one, New York Times bestseller, red notice any major bookstore and Bush. We're really committed to extending freedom and democracy. So you can learn more about our work Bush Bush centered on or eczema freedom Bill. Thank you so much for all the time to be here. Can thank you as well. If you enjoy today's episode like to help us spread the word about the strategic, please give us a five star review and tell your friends to subscribe for a valuable on apple podcasts Spotify and all the major listening apps, if you're tuning in on a smartphone tapper swipe over the cover art, you'll find some notes with helpful information and details he may have missed the strategic was produced, but you Anna Pappas at the George W Bush institute in Dallas, Texas. Thank you for listening.

Vladimir Putin Russia Bill Browder Twitter Sergei Magnitsky INTERPOL United States Sergei president murder Soviet Union New York Times Bush institute Wall Street Journal Ken her Russian government America George W Bush institute Spain
Tuesday, Jan. 15: Bill Browder

The View

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Tuesday, Jan. 15: Bill Browder

"Are you hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started today at indeed dot com slash podcast. That's indeed dot com slash podcast. Subscribe now to our podcast to get hot topics delivered every afternoon, and while you're at it rate us in labor review, the zapping are hot and the view is lie kings fall Republican heavyweights are calling for congressman Steve king to step down over his comments about white supremacy. Is this too little too late served by Trump the president's fast food feast for college football champs visiting the White House deep you take the cheap way out. Or is he giving the people what they want plus the president's relationship with Russia is under the microscope and the main called Bruton's. Public enemy number one Bill Browder revealed by the Russians really wanted to meet at Trump Tower. Let's fire up pots up eggs with Whoopie. I'll be huntsmen joy Behar, sunny hosting and Meghan McCain. Now, let's get things started. House Republicans are soon to be turning on congressman Steve king for his latest comments asking why the term white supremacy is offensive. They stripped him of his assignments and Republican heavyweights like Mitt Romney and Mitch McConnell say he should probably look for another line of work. So why do you think this is because he's sort of been around a long time. And this is not the first time he's sort of come out with a Leo times. Just published a list of his racist. Comments going back to twenty two. Oh, great. That'll make you feel good about being an American and they go right that they kind of let it go in the party. Now, I guess McConnell is looking at you know, the fact that the midterms there's a message being sent suburban women particular don't care for this type of rhetoric. We don't want to hear it on a see it when they want to smell it. And and also the ROY Moore event, I think probably contribute the total. The rum mummy was right on his side a few years ago. That's the I I think it's a crime to that. He was reelected just a year ago by folks when he had said things just as bad leading up to that race. So that makes you really question. I always look for the positive as you guys know when things that it does make me happy that they are speaking out that they did come out as quick as they did this time. But why is it taking so long in the pack says expedient now it works for that didn't work. We'll know silences is is no longer acceptable. Especially in these times, it was never acceptable. But certainly in these times is no longer acceptable. I think if you read Senator Tim Scott head and has been in the Washington Post. He's the only black Republican in the Senate, and he certainly slammed Steve king. He said some in our party wonder why we're publicans are constantly accused of racism, it is because of our silence when things like this or said immigration is the perfect example in which some how our affection for the rule of law has become conflicted with the perceived racism against Brown and black people and. Say. Did you? God and Charlotte. Yeah. I'm Tim, Scott. I think he's been very vocal about this. But his voice has seemingly and often times been the only one, and I will say, and I'll speak just for myself. I think often times in the black community think the Republican party has had a lot of difficulty. Getting the black vote getting the minority vote in large part because there is this feeling like there's a lot of racism in publican party, or they haven't addressed a lot of black knees directly to naturally happen till Barry Goldwater. Exactly it used to be the party of link. I want to say one thing. But allow it so about maybe things change I condemn him. He should step down. He's a racist. And he's bad for the party. Yes. It's not hard. Okay. Seems to be very complicated for some people. There's no place for him anywhere in politics. Romney hurting ounce done that list of natual Rangers a list of people. But I'm just saying more people should come out. He should be. He should step down. I don't have patience for this. I don't think anybody has for this in any way. I would like us to move forward and pass things that I thought were done in the sixties. Apparently, they are not he's a bad, dude. Should he step down? Should he be sent anything to get him the hell out of congress? I didn't really care. Sir, sir. I don't be talking about crap like this. I'm a political analyst. I don't wanna keep reliving stuff that I thought we had passed by a long he'd be hit with Han. He tossed out. Then is the question salary Hong industry. They're only twenty he can see that have been out the the problem that said we will have is he wasn't voted in by like a board. If he was noted by his Swisher from Republicans in the party, and Mitch McConnell and leaders and people like you, and I on TV the pressure mounts. We've seen it in different fields. Why can't it be the same? And they strip all of his duties so you're in office, but there's really nothing you can actually do there. And that's what censoring is. So they take him off his committee. So he's really doesn't have a job. This is the time to do it. I mean, I remember joy you were pretty upset when Al Franken stepped down. And I think the Democrats wanted to take the moral high ground, and he did it getting to get that if they get anywhere with it. Right. But Republicans now with this. I think could make such a significant statement by forcing him to resign, but will Republicans now step up to the plate with Donald Trump because he has been using I think the border wall as sort of this dog whistle for racism, but. Government is still shut down. And I think it's all about let's not let all these Brown people in right, unless they're working for farmers unless they're working in agriculture. So now will the Republican party step up to him and say, we don't want any there. There's forty two percent of this country. That's worth the wall. Are they all racist? That's a good question. I'm not that. I don't think. So I don't think so I believe in Donald Trump races. Doc. I'm trying to say. If you're if you're going to paint, a broad stroke about a wall and that being racist than I know. But there are people that support to wellbeing Bill is Donald Trump races. There are a lot of web about there are a lot of people's support that well when I think when you blanket, I think this is the problem with identity politics in the country, which is something we sort of touched on yesterday's when you broad stroke, everyone, all black people think one thing people think one thing or publicans think one thing that's how we got ourselves into this mess, and I'm one of the people that would like to help pull ourselves out of it flits focus on Steve king. I'm happy to talk about the wall and border. And we talk about Trump still will Trump, by the way, I think I have made myself quite clear how I feel about President Trump. How I feel about the America. That was always great before he came to it. I think I have made myself explicitly clear on this show and other places. So please don't paint me just because I'm for border security that is somehow racist in some way or another because I don't think that's fair. I'm against the wall letting up being accepted, I'm for strong border security. I would like to say kings language is important. He said, white nationalist white supremacists. Western civilization. How did that language become offensive? This is very clear. It's very clear racist language from congressman king. So when I think that is what I'm just saying when we broad stroke, everyone, I would like our show, and I've said this many times to be above that to be above broad stroking people into different. We all. It's. Put with forty two percent of Americans are racist. Aren't just said. I don't know. That's the question. Aqap G rating on his racist concentrating. Stop dom. Anything that's happening now because by talknet just make one small time. Point point is that I don't think that we concentrate on Steve king. There's always racist. I only that because it's the topic thing on eight o'clock. I'm not done. What you did just call forty two percent of the country. There was an implication that they could be racist. Which is something that obviously when you're talking about Republicans in general that is obviously something that's going make. I on the platform, not the person. I am John McCain of daughter, I am not someone who sits her and is okay with racism. Daughter. Murga? We'll be right back. Leader, Donald bids. Mc Donnell was he bad taste for the president to serve best food at the national college football champs White House lunch, or is it what the kids want? Tomorrow on the view, a New York mayor Bill de Blasio hits the table with his big new brands for supporting undocumented immigrants getting lots of buzz on a totally different. Look who else does hitting the view jet towel, Regina hall, and Don Cheadle, hang with the ladies this week on the view on ABC. Later, Vladimir Putin's public enemy number one Bill Browder on what he thinks of the FBI probe into Trump and Russia and why he says Putin wants him dead. So diversity and the media. We're actually on. Yeah. Bursary in the media is a hot topic shockingly after White House Washington Post reporter, Chelsea Jane's covered Senate, Kamala, Harris speech at harasses, alma mater and Howard University. Now, the speech was attended by the aka sorority that Harris pledged in college who gave her their trademark ski we call. And then prompted the reporter to tweet members of her Howard sorority are in the room and screeched when she mentioned her time there did not expect to hear screeches there. She was immediately kind of called out on social media of not knowing about the ski wing. So question this was she the right person to cover the event. Do you do your homework if you know, and apparently both folksy about all women talking at all our screeching to some people in the media. We just open up our mouths were screeching and hysterical. So that I would like to just change coming out the gate. We were talking about in the meeting that I have always wanted journalists for every network in publication to have a gun beat to have someone who actually understands guns when God forbid a shooting happens or anything with gun legislation happens people will actually understand the difference between I don't know at assault rifle this dummy assault rifle. So I don't have a problem with diversity with journalists in general, I think everybody got everything wrong in two thousand sixteen and having a whole new swath of journalists coming in as good idea. I mean to put into context, I'm a member of alpha Kappa alpha today is our founders day. That's why I'm wearing a sweater at this nineteen okay? Percent. Yeah. No one thousand nine hundred eighty one. We were founded today is our founders day we were founded one hundred eleven years ago where the first black. Already me just. That was not a great one because my voices. And what was shocking to me was if you are the report or following Kamla Harris, then at Howard University, where sorority was founded, you should know that she's a member, you should know that that that is our sorority calls back, right pink and green did know that she must not have. It sounds as though right? She just didn't know the screech. I don't know. She said members of her sorority. I mean, you ski you ease or call. I could save what you might not know that little detail. I mean, not every report a every single I'll higher room is doing it. I remember just to try to. I mean, this is something that I think you should know Michelle Obama's in a I mean, this is not rocket science. And the interesting thing is and the reason there is an AK as because black women weren't allowed to join white sororities in one thousand nine hundred eight so it was a matter of ten sixty was allowed to join a a Jewish sorority. I wasn't allowed to join other sororities that kept me out of many sorority. They wind up this point of this is that the the the question is do you have the right person would have to be a black reporter? I report this story given that this young lady apparently didn't know that ski was to be reported and his heard flop and informed reporter. I don't. Yeah. And informed or someone that does the reach, sir. He was demolished on Twitter for that. So in a way, I think it was a good thing to happen. Because as the in beds are all getting ready to go out and cover the twenty twenty campaign. It's a lesson that it shouldn't. I don't think you need a black person to to represent a black candidate. If anything that keeps you in your own world. I think we need to keep learning from each other. But to your point you've gotta know who you're following. But you got a bunch of men cheering on a male candidate. Are they screeching? No. Well, this loaded words screeching hysterical. They're things that are said about women in general was this was a woman writing about other women. So the question, I think women are immune to attacking women. But the question still remains do we have to doesn't have to be a person of color or could would an informed journalist had a better feel for what the hell? They did. Apologize. And I will. I immediately got on Twitter because I was just there for the ratio. And I was there for the dragon because maybe I'm petty like that, and I but what what what? What what what what I was? I was interested in what what the exchanges were like and a lot of people came from a perspective of trying to teach her about the organization, and I thought that was wonderful to send lighting it's a good. But they're. There's so many white sororities out there. I guess the point is that this is one of the few real really important black sororities. And that's in that case. You're right. She should know everyone tale of it. Because you don't have that much research too. Million nine hundred fraternities exact. So there's a real laziness today when it comes to journalism, there's some great journalists out and Meghan. I bow pinker campaigns. And we've seen firsthand the different than someone that is really their job on medicine seem to be hard working people times report is the Washington Post reporters they are on the job twenty. That you've been on where you had. Bobbling you and new they're biased. I mean. There are great journalists word hard working. I'm I'm to that point. Why not saying they weren't in bed or sitting lazy? Kennedy go to target hopes that I think can be lazy today because you can go on Twitter, and you can just read if you facts, and it's like, I know what I need to know to cover this person in to cover the story. And that's when you get a wrong to cameras school way. I am surprised that someone that would be covering a potential presidential candidate, isn't she? Might not know everything about or maybe or maybe we'll be made this point in the meeting that maybe maybe they think that they're already right? So even if they are being told something different. They don't want to hear. If you're in a room of all these people singing, I remember when I went to college, and I'm from Bronx. I never heard a sweet Caroline. I never heard that song. And I was in in the highly. You never heard of swing. So I was at the party and everybody's like sweet Caroline. Oh, and I didn't I was like, oh what I like. Like always. Point. The banners of the point you have to make right now. Okay. The point very quickly. What can I make the point really fast? The point is that was not a cultural thing for me. I asked around this is this everybody got sorry. Oh at that point. Yes. I wasn't making people around. But but I engaged in cultural moment, he got right back every quick. You can still feel the Oprah that dead buehner deal dot com. We partnered with enders to offer her latest batch of favored things or at least half off. So get you your deal dot com. Now. Welcome back. Welcome back. Gillett released a new ad campaign. That's calling I meant and toxic masculinity. Take a look we believe in the best in men in me to whole other men accountable. Rouse meeting. Come on to say the right thing. To act the right way. Some already are. In ways big. And smalley. Because the boys watch today. We'll be the man of tomorrow. And there's a lot of support for it. But as always there's some backlash from people saying demonize is all masculinity. Well, yeah, you know, sometimes people see what they need to see in order to make the argument. Okay. So I think anything that celebrates trying to make it better is a good thing as a good step forward. But for some reason, this is this is your -tated. I've always found those that are the most negative that are the ones that need to make the change most. And they're not listening to that. I love the moment where the dad's look in the mirror with her little girl saying, you know, something about being strong. And if anything I think it points to so many good men around us all over that are being good examples that the next generation can look up to and learn from I actually find this to be one of the most positive and like heart warming pieces I've seen on this whole conversation about how should be an art by. I mean, I've thought we had a perfect example of a man who is the opposite of toxic masculinity and President Obama we had him eight years he would be role model that every child could look up to and say, hey, that's the kind of man, I want to be you don't he was kind. Smart data their husband, and he did everything he was supposed to do. He never. There was not a scintilla of scandal. At that, man. Remember that? Policy wise was but not in his personal life. That's correct. Yeah. I mean, I, you know, I have a teenage son, and what I've enjoyed so much seeing my husband, and my son interact, and I've heard my husband, many many times, let my son know that it's okay to cry. It's okay to lose. It's okay. You know? And I've I've watched that dynamic, and so I do, and he has often told me that when he was growing up the messaging was very different, you know, that it wasn't okay to cry when he was growing up. So I do think perhaps there's a pain. This message is different. This message isn't about crying. This message is about pay attention. And the all adage, you know, is that if someone did this to you would you be comfortable with it? You know, that empathy thing that sometimes people forget because I think once someone can relate to your shoe. Us, you know, maybe not by walking him necessarily, but can relate to it. I think that makes things easier so someone who sees someone acting as that was acting to go follow the girl in the guy says not cool. Don't you know, don't do that? I think that's the that's the important thing is good menace stepping up. And that's I think they're saying ready for this. I don't love the ad. Okay. All right. I know my God. I don't love the ad number one. I don't like virtue signaling from corporations as a general rule of just don't like it. Number two. I think this conversation about toxic masculinity. I grew up in a military family all the men in my family are in the military. We all shoot guns. And I think there's this sort of like backlash against being traditionally masculine as well, and I just want men to obviously not sexually harass anyone on any women feel offensive. Not do anything illegal all those things. They're doing that at our great. But I think if you want to be like a UFC fighter that's fine too. If you if you have a side of you that's just hyper test asteroid, and you want to I think people like James Shaw junior the waffle house hero that stopped the gunman. There was masculinity or protectiveness involved in that that he was like, oh my God. There's a shooting. I'm gonna attack that doesn't mean. Tuck. That's not toxic people booing. And so I don't think anybody's I wou I just heard I know what I was far. All I'm saying is that I have issue. I take issue, and I would like to have a broader conversation about what it means to be to have toxic masculinity. And I think in general when you're talking about don't care. Call women don't sexually harassed them. That's all fine and good. When you're going beyond told me about as a hero. First of all. Of course. That's not toxic. It's the opposite. And it's also showing I love the word empathy, by the way, because I think women carry so well, and I think that is showing up those masculine mended jumping to save someone's life because you're putting yourself literally manage you have been told women can they can't show emotion. They can't show embassy. They can't cry. They can't show. What historically by the way, feminine carry the weight Ristic, you, you know, me. Well, yeah. Fit into all of that. I'm bad showing my emotion, but you know, all these things like in your a lot softer side. It's just she's a bear on the outside. Not like that. I mean again the line. And that's where we're talking. I don't think we're talking emotions here. I think we're talking about interpretation stepping. Well, I think based on what I saw what they're basically saying is don't be a jerk. Do I need a shaving company to tell me that? Well, you know, I think they need to do. I think those messages can come from as many places we can get them because as we've seen sometimes that it's the people have forgotten and we wanna maybe want. Yes, I've seen this true. I see. We'll be right back. Is it still a struggle to get that good night's sleep? Then maybe it's time to try the purple mattress. It's made out of a new material that makes it firm and soft. So it keeps everything supported while. Still feeling really comfortable. Try it now with a one hundred night risk retrial along with free shipping and returns. And if you order one, you'll get a free purple pillow with the purchase of a mattress just text view two four seven four seven four seven the only way to get the spree pillow is to text view two four seven four seven four seven. Message and data rates may apply. So you just woke up your phone is lighting up with headlines and push notifications. And a text from your mom saying, how do I click this? Okay. Maybe that's just me. But if you want to get up to speed, check out the new podcast from ABC news start here. Literally the ground was shaking. I'm Brad milkey. And every morning, we're going to take you to the stories that matter with fast, fresh, insight, low, Robert Muller. Michael Cohen calling all in twenty minutes start here. Listen for free on apple podcasts. Or your favorite podcast app. So this morning, we lost a Broadway and Hollywood legend really spectacular woman named Carol Channing. She took final bow at age ninety seven. That's incredible. Pie into her back in twenty ten on my other show. I used to have on CNN, and she she told me she was on Nixon's enemies list. Yes. And then all she was. Yeah. And then all of her playbills, she would list her credits. And then she'd say I was on Nixon's. So she made that list. You make any. Wait. Why are we on Trump's hate tweet bliss because route because we're winning people? Listen to. That's why we're saying with they are. Say I think Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Somebody quoted him judge me by my enemies. Yes. Yeah. That's a good James Komi just tweeted this. But he's be. No, no, I'm sorry. All right. No, I know. I've got pregnancy. Bright, I Pol. Dench, right. He was in the amazing. I think when you think of Carol know about love was a big major. Yeah. Doored her four hundred. Was amazed. And so we were talking about things that men also need to work on. And here's one recent test study on a male broke console injection, and we stopped because too many guys didn't want to deal with the side effects, which are essentially the same side effects as the female pill. They don't want it. Yeah. Oh, poor guy. I really didn't believe that study. Now, I thought that if men have had the opportunity to take a pill and have as much sex as they wanted without the possibility of getting somebody pregnant, I put big go forward and read the side effects. You have nausea, weight gain decreased libido. I've got to tell you. So I'm having this con- now about your shipping. Well. Hyphen pillow picketing like are we done having kids hate birth control? Because of a lot of these reasons, and so I said, well, you're getting the snip like it's done. And he's like, no I said we've contributed nothing physically to what we build our family. So you will get the snip, and he he's still refuses. He says, no you already, you know, if you'd see section, which we don't know yet. But you'll be in surgery. So they can just, you know, tied the tubes. Like, no, no, no, Ben just can't deal with him. I tell you something about them. I haven't pregnancy back in one thousand nine hundred seventy nine. Yes. I was died. It was very serious. And so why because I I had an all you, Jay. And that thing. Yeah. I was in a class action suit. Anyway. So when I'm on the willing minions the OR say, well, you know, what you're going to have to take a two because what it is is the little embryo gets stuck in your in your view Lopion tomb, and then it ruptures and you bleed late. Okay. So the wheeling man, and I say to the doctor can you please take out the other tube? So then you're not going to get pregnant and they. Said to me. I don't know if this is still true, you we need a thirty days for you to to sign papers. You get just say that as you you Ali, which I believe is a very I was thirty nine years old. Okay. That is the most sense law. We make it. What I was talking about being under anesthesia now, I wasn't sure yet. No idea. I never been pregnant before I doubt now. Well, in the old days in the old days, you were lucky to get someone who even asked you because you used to have someone who would ask your husband for your own out, can you? Yes, they have made tale. Well. Yeah. We'll be right back. Why don't these this man save Ladimir Putin's been trying to kill him for a decade? How worried is he about President Trump's relationship with Russia? Bill Browder is alive on the view next. We are really strong women people make to hear what women have to say. And that's that's what makes the show so good. We will back you up. We will stand with you. Anybody who's anybody who wants to make it to the next level in politics has to come on this show. I feel like there's no better time to be on a show. Like this to stand up for those things that you believe in. It is up to all of us to continue the conversation. Do you wanna do? I'll see you on the view say you want to see the you on the view. Say that. Relationship with Russia continues to cause concern. And right now, we're getting insight from the man who was the real reason behind the infamous Trump Tower meeting and has spent the last decade of his life trying to avoid getting killed by Vladimir Putin. Please welcome the head of global Magnitsky Justice campaign, my friend, Bill Browder high. You don't own your story. You were a fierce partner in fighting corruption with my father, you were the head of the largest foreign investor in Russia, and you were giving you a vocal supporter of Putin at the time. And then everything changed can you explain to the audience why you are bladder Putin's number one enemy. What happened was? I went out to Russia sort an investment fund. I discovered that everything was corrupt out there. I wanted to stop the corruption of the companies I invested in I expose it. And guess what I exposed Putin and all of his guys and they didn't take too kindly to that. They expelled me from the country. They raided my offices. They seized all of our documents. And then they arrested tortured and murdered. My lawyer Sergei madness game. Which is how we got the Sergei Magnitsky though that I got from my father. I, you know, I think he understanding is that the Russia and Putin was basically using the United States as a slush fund, correct? Well, basically what? So what Putin does is? He does terrible financial crimes like the one that that Magnitsky exposed. He he does. And he doesn't all over the place, and he's got all his guys doing it. And it's a whole corrupt system. They take all this money, and they don't want to keep it in Russia because as easy as they stole it, it could be stolen from them. And so they put it in US banks and in London banks and in Swiss banks, and one of the things that Putin is scared. Most of all is having that money taken away it you'd probably when you hate sends the checks, so he sends all this money. All these guys send the money tonight's as they put it in real estate here if they put it in real estate, they put it in Bank accounts. They put an hedge fund and somebody has to launder that money right because it's really not taxed so there's a the the worst thing is that there's a whole industry of people with nice, suits and good accents. And well, educated schools everything. That launder the money and take the money, and and and give them a, wink and say, don't worry Blad. Your money is going to be safe with us. It was your name that was brought up in the infamous Trump Tower meeting. It was also your name that was brought up in Helsinki at that press conference. Putin is obsessed with you. I mean, he brings up your name every chance he gets. And then President Trump even called the idea of giving you over to the Russians he called it an incredible offer. Isn't that Helsinki press conference? What's going through your mind when you heard the United States say that it was incredible offer to give you up to the Russians. Well, so I'm sitting there and Vladimir Putin has been going after me for ten years. I they they made death threats kidnapping threats. They tried to arrest me through INTERPOL. They've done all this stuff. And I'm sitting there, and I was in the United States at the time that that that that the Helsinki summit was going on. And I thought to myself this guy is about President Trump is either very stupid not having been been briefed about my story. Because my my story is is all over the place. Or there's something something wrong in his head. Because to hand me over to the Russians is about the worst thing scared that that could have happened. Well, you know, I think that he says a lot of really dumb stuff, but but but the system in America still works, and I didn't think that the department of Justice or the US courts would have handed me over to the Russians. But but the fact that he said that was was was pretty unnerving. And it wasn't just me. There was eleven other people that they wanted to hand over and and and the Senate actually had a vote should we have these guys over and they voted ninety eight zero not to hand us over. But I it was only only like an hour before the Senate vote that Trump finally welcome back four days later. So he probably didn't know any Messaien, right? He's what they call. It a useful idiot. That's what that's what I believe. It was Lenin will use that phrase that Russians will use someone like him as a useful idiot. We don't know we we don't know, we don't know. But because it's not that we're signed that. My name is come up as you as you mentioned in June, ninth two thousand sixteen Vladimir Putin send a a lawyer a woman named the tally vessel knits guy out to Trump Tower to meet with Donald Trump junior, Jared, Kushner, Paul Manafort, and that meeting in that meeting was all about me and all about Sergei Magnitsky, my lawyer in the Magnitsky act, which Putin hates so much. That's what it was about. So it was about Russian adoptions. But that was a lie that was ally the Russian adoptions were the Putin banned Russian adoptions after the Magnitsky act the sanctions against Russia were putting Magnitsky asked is 'cause they don't it's very important. And this goes to Megan's father John McCain when when my lawyer Sergei Magnitsky was killed. I went to America went to congress and I met with members democrat Benjamin carton from. Maryland, John McCain, and I said I told him a story of the murder my lawyer. And I said can we do something about this? And they came up the Magnitsky act and the Magnitsky act freezes the assets and bans visas of people who killed Sergei Magnitsky and people who do similar types of terrible things and flat him. Putin hates us more than anything because his own money is at risk. And it's what they were petitioning, Don jR in Trump Tower about to get rid of. So you've been following the money, right? And that's where a lot of people are saying you're going to catch Trump. You're gonna catch him. If you follow where his money's been. And maybe he's been colluding with the Russian some way, but you've had a closer eye on this in any of us. Have you seen anything unusual with Trump and money being spent or what are you know? Well. I I have spent since since Sergei Magnitsky was killed. He was killed for uncovering a massive two hundred thirty million dollar corruption scheme. I've been following the money, and I've spent nine years finding out where that money went and we found out where that money went. And I've learned everything there is to learn about money laundering. And and what the first thing I can tell you is that money leaves an indelible trail if any money has been transferred the banking system, you will find that money. And so far we've not seen any any overlap between the Magnitsky killing and that and the money laundering connected to that. And the Trump campaign, but we found a lot of other other overlap in fact, we've found that Vladimir Putin got some of that money, which is why he hates me so much and he's as we speak. He's trying to kill you as we speak as we couldn't number one enemy. Yeah. Aren't you scandal a little bit to be in the world walking around? How do you the fleas at night? Yeah. I sleep like a baby I wake up crying every. Curiously I don't live in fear. And because you cannot live in fear because if you live in fear than they've already they've already got you. They've already got. Final thing. I think it's been bizarre for those of us who know about the murderous KGB dictator that is Ladimir Putin. Why do you think it is the President Trump is so reticent to ever say anything even remotely critical of bladder MIR Putin question, I it's it's it it just makes no sense because it doesn't serve his political purposes. It's not like the his base loves Russia. I mean, it doesn't serve and neither does the Republican establishment. Right. Love russia. And so it doesn't serve he it makes no sense. Unless there's some other information that we don't have available to us, and the wonderful thing that everyone asks me to predict what's going to happen with Muller investigation. I don't know. But Muller knows Muller has got Miller knows everything. And we'll find out. Everything's been unturned. Thank you. Thank you so much. I might friend Bill Browder right back. Thanks for coming. Tomorrow comedy superstar Judd appetite on Kevin Hart, Louis C K and people complaining that PC culture is killing comedy and mayor Bill de Blasio on making New York the first city in American history to opera healthcare for all. So look, thanks for watching. Thanks for common. We want you all to have a great day. And we want you to take a little time to enjoy. Whatever view you happen upon. These days news comes out of Washington so fast. It can be hard to keep up. I just don't think this is going to play out the way everybody thinks it's going to play out. We're getting giancarl prediction. I'm your look we need special music for this. I'm ABC news political director Rick Klein, join me along with ABC's chief White House correspondent Jonathan Karl. Every week as we break down the facts and turn to Washington insiders with tough questions on the powerhouse politics podcasts. Or are you going to talk to moan I listen for free on apple podcasts or your favorite podcast app?

President Trump Vladimir Putin Russia Bill Browder Donald Trump president Steve king Trump Tower Washington Post Senate Sergei Magnitsky Trump Tower John McCain America Trump Mitch McConnell Republican party congressman Meghan McCain President Obama
Hermitage Capital CEO Bill Browder on Putin's crimes and DoNotPay CEO Josh Browder on robot lawyers for consumers

Recode Decode

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Hermitage Capital CEO Bill Browder on Putin's crimes and DoNotPay CEO Josh Browder on robot lawyers for consumers

"The T. mobile is relentless over the last three years. They've invested nearly thirty billion dollars network and service improvements. No signal is stronger or more reliable than T. Mobile's low band six hundred megahertz spectrum and they want you to try it for free as in no strings attached as in you can use your own phone and your own number. What are the network does that go to t mobile dot com slash test drive and check it out for free for thirty days or thirty gigabytes the Beta T. Dash M. O. B. L. E. DOT COM slash test drive. No signals more reliable travels further or is better and buildings than six hundred megahertz. It's mainly to upgrade your device. When you switch to get full coverage hi. I'm Cara Swisher editor at large of recode. You may know me as someone men who best friends are Russian bots but in my spare time I talk tech and you're listening to recode decode from the VOX media podcast network today in the red chairs are bill browder and Josh crowder an entrepreneurial father and son duo bill is a hedge fund manager the CEO of Hermitage capital management and the author of the best-selling Nonfiction Book Doc Red Notice and his son Josh is the CEO of a company called do not pay which describes itself as the world's first robot lawyer Bill and Josh Welcome to Rico Decode Geico. Thank you for having zoo. I met dill at a party in an aspen security summit where we're talking about. Lots of important security issues with bill is rather familiar. He told me about Joshua's this company which is a startup in San Francisco correct. That's right and I wanted to get them together to talk about this. Not just a father but like where entrepreneurism right now we're investing testing is what's important thing so. Let's start first with you. Josh Explain Your Company. Do not pay what we do. Is We help consumers fight for their rights right okay so facebook has has a team of lawyers figuring out how to mess with and screw. The consumer for the average person has no one so we help you get out of your parking tickets fight. When does the data breach dude government paperwork all the things that is really expensive potanin very good at automating so explain how you do that explain how you automate that so so for example you get a parking ticket you go onto. Do not pay and ask you questions about your ticket based on your answers generates all the documents like and finds a loophole. Paul to get you off. You'll parking fine for example problems with the science things like that so you have to sort of document that with them that's right. How did you come up with this concept so I I was in I'm from the UK and when I turned eighteen I started driving and I go about thirty parking tickets and I couldn't afford to pay these expensive tickets to pay them for him. There was writing the same appeal letter over and over again and I've always loved software and I thought this console easily be automated so started with parking tickets and then Morton's everything else and now it works one hundred fifty different areas to law sue the concept robot lawyer I mean I I welcome it. I have to say I welcome our robot overlords in general but the concept because a lot of legal stuff is love you will talk about. Ai Replacing this and that and everything else but legal stuff seems perfect in that regard. It's it's really pathetic. I don't think we're GONNA be arguing. The Supreme Court anytime soon but for something like consumer rights for a parking ticket. It's really perfect and give people a laugh laugh rich to parking tickets because are one thing but when you're talking about more complex legal issues it's different so we have this product is called out five hundred dollars plus and you can sue anyone in small claims call ought to ten thousand dollars so I feel landlords retaining your security deposit. You can now fight back. Most people have no idea what to do in that situation. Small Claims Court how different different is from no lower some of the other sites that provide forms and things like that well this actually walks you through from start to finish everything from the demand latter two forms comes to a script to read call reading court so you'll must've bought yourself following instructions on the instructions and so it's pay a pay thing so these are relatively small legal issues yeah but sometimes it can be even five thousand dollars for security deposit so but what can morph out into a bigger kind of thing one of the biggest things that we did is we help people equifax after the data bridge and so research that and that's so explain what effects did equifax leaked the credentials initials of hundreds of millions of Americans and as a result they go hacked stay credit card fraud and so everyone was waiting for this class action settlement men years later wherever and it now appears people won't even get like dozens of dollars and so what we said is why not take equifax small claims court using technology and when we did it lots of. Moore said this will never work but at times because you it's very difficult for an average person to just descript improve negligence against large corporation. Shen so it was really an experiment. I was actually successful. We had hundreds of people win. The thousands of dollars equifax meaning saying that they in a small claims uh-huh point of view. Do you have to show harm correct. That's Ryan so people are shying that they were hacked and the terrible things that happened in their lives as a result and so what's the big picture of doing this besides you getting parking tickets. What's the which often entrepreneur's idea comes from stuff like this. But what what's the bigger. How can you carry it out to a larger idea. Certain acts that we think of as sort of artistic almost that we have to hire lawyers. I I've interviewed a divorce lawyer. Is that a lot of this can be automated for example. I see do not pay as sort of consumer union. We have workers union so why not have a consumer union. If we have millions of people using ourselves one day we can go into a comcast and say you have to treat all of our customers better or your face havoc you will do that. Yes you will do that or else. You'll stay unleash legal documentation on because everybody shares the same gripes that's right right and so when you when the idea people joining online has been lost over the years there used to be a lot of stuff early on in the Internet Internet time when there was going to be a lot of buying together. There is going to be a lot of joining together. It's sort of shattered into a million ugly little pieces for a lot of people oh yeah. I think that's lost. Everyone is to separated but if you get people back together then the big corporations will have to save so bill so you you have. You're a hedge fund man. You make investments and things like that. You have a little more of a reputation for other things but I I used to be hedge fund manager. I guess now I would probably characterize myself as Putin's number one enemy. That's right yeah. I was hedge fund manager in Russia. I ended up exposing corruption. I was expelled from the country and by Putin declared declared a threat to national security. My offices were raided. I hired a lawyer Sergei Magnitsky to help me defend myself. He uncovered a two hundred thirty million dollar our Russian government corruption scheme and he exposed and he was subsequently arrested in Russia put in pretrial detention tortured for three hundred and fifty eight days and killed ten years ago at the age of thirty seven and so I put aside my hedge fund business entirely and now am am a human rights activist focusing on justice for Sergei Mississippi injustice for other victims of the Putin regime and in terms of what you've done with that is the Magnus de ask. Would you explain that so we couldn't get justice in Russia because the people who killed Sergei or protected by Putin explicitly he actually openly openly exonerated them and so he said we need to get justice in the West and How do we get justice in the West? Well the answer is that the Russians who commit these crimes who killed surrogate to other similar things they do it for money. They don't keep that money in Russia. They keep that money in the West as we said to ourselves if if they value money so much that they're gonNA kill people and then they want to keep it safe in the West by making it putting their money at risk that may not be real justice in terms of prosecution for murder but it certainly puts them in a very weakened vulnerable position and so we came up this idea of freezing their assets and banning their visas and I I brought this idea at Washington in two thousand ten with a Democratic Senator Name Benjamin Carden and Republican Republicans Senator John McCain and all the things that people don't agree on in Washington. The one thing they could agree on is that Russian tortures and murders should come to America uh it shouldn't be able to spend their money here and in two thousand twelve the magnitsky act was up for vote in past ninety two to four in the Senate eighty nine percent of the House of Representatives use and it became a federal law on December fourteenth two thousand twelve and this became probably the single biggest irritant for Vladimir Putin because he's a human rights violator violator and he's got a lot of assets and this puts his money at risk so in terms of moving to do something like that because a lot of it you know a lot of there's a lot of Russian players and attack and all kinds of and obviously the Russian interference in the elections has been in the news but this is sort of more at the heart of their issues right the money so oh after the magnitsky act was passed Putin's that was his number one foreign policy priority to repeal the Magnitsky Act and if you remember there's a very famous meeting in which Russian and lawyer went to trump tower on ninety two thousand sixteen. Her name is Natalia Veselnitskaya. She represented the Putin regime and she was there specifically to ask Donald Trump from junior Paul manafort and Jerk Kushner. If Donald Trump was elected this is before he was elected if he's elected would repeal the magnitsky act and it was on that that basis and on the basis of Putin's general predisposition towards Donald Trump and way from Hillary Clinton that he pushed for Donald Trump to become the president of the United States because at the top of his list was repealing the Magnitsky Act so in a very weird and strange way this one murder over my lawyer has fled to the motivation for Russia to interfere in the election wow thanks bill unexpected consequences unexpected consequences sue you were doing in your own thing. You're vesting and things like that moving away into this area when you wrote about red notice. What does that do. What does that do? I mean it's interesting to to be able to move away and and create that and then we're talking about how you have a son who's entrepreneurial well. He's also a justice actor and so well wh- what I discovered I love being a fine an investment guy I loved the intellectual challenge and you know being right was measured buyer investment returns and that was all very wonderful and very satisfying and I wouldn't and nothing wrong with it but but I have to say that fighting for justice is literally a thousand times more satisfying than fighting for money and one of the things that I'm most proud of with Josh. was that some he's found a way to combine the two in in his life and his career. He's one of the most successful young people I know. he started a company raised venture capital to fight for consumer rights to fight big corporations uh-huh and to sort of level the playing field and so. I like to think that that maybe they're a little bit of parenting has something to do with that and the concept Josh is that you've been he's been doing in our macro level. This is a major macro level and international global macro level and you're doing it on the micro. The how do they fit together. Is that was that you being a justice entrepreneur well. I think it's very different to fighting Russian torture but it is parking ticket for parking ticket. People are really awful but one thing I would say that I've learned from my father is that I'm never phased by anything. I've I remember waking up when he was stuck in Russia. They were detaining him at the Apple. I've seen really terrible things so when some lawyer or someone is off to me something. Lewis Kathy average person really don't care that much right so talking about the idea of people's rights sites on the Internet because I think you're at the heart the reason I did want to talk to you because you're at the heart of of I think growing feeling that the Internet is controlling you vote by versa and you can do this on privacy. You could do this all kinds of ways that you're just an object to be acted upon and you don't you haven't been able to use the powers of these amazing technologies for yourself except for maybe maybe finding a date or getting your car delivered to the right time. Yeah I think that as we speak people brainstorming and every bit corporation. How can you get the most money? How can you get the most data meanwhile the passenger feeling incredibly exploited and you need a way to fight back so in terms of a creating a company right. How much did you raise we raised four point six million title in total and and it is your company profitable yet know. How do people get paid. What did they they pay you for? What so we most of is free but if you're successful in some areas says the subscription of three dollars a month so we have a direct relationship with our customers. What are they paying for paying for like some services for example. We have this one service that automatically councils oil free trials just like that please please so the big companies use deceptive practices that your credit card and then. I understand that and lots of people sat calendar reminders but they ultimately forget to council and so what we've done is we created this free credit card that you can use on oil subscription free trials and you never have to worry because when you use it will just council the free trial for you for you yes so after a month and is not linked to your payment service or bank account and so it's just that that you can use on the Internet. You'll pass no free. Trial credit caught which doesn't have any a money on it right which you pay because it's a free thing so we figured out a way through the companies into getting really had a fight with someone over. This kept going for first of all. You don't remember to cancel month and these guys are they. Make it difficult for you. You can't cancel online. You've got to like call up. Some thank since one thousand nine hundred seventy subscribe to nine now too late late too late for you can subscribe now. It's it's open for free. You know I understand. Thank you so much but I've already had a problem that we could switch critic. Noam not underage anyway. Let's not go into my ridiculous. Dell's problems with America Online that continued to this day thirty twenty years later so sorry go ahead so the idea is the idea of doing things that are not necessarily in the interest of taking the advantage of people. We're looking all the loopholes that exist in the world and trying to make it pro-consumer random pro corporation. Why do you imagine the Internet has gotten so far away from the the idea of consumers being the focus versus these corporations I think as who down to the budget I'm not sure how big FACEBOOK's budget is this year if you compare that to what the average Americans budget is with a negative bank account can explain why they can afford to hire so many people to figure this out so these are all just different things things any kind of loophole. You're trying to find yeah another one is. We're very pro pattern so we have this thing coming out. What pets okay so If not yeah everyone loves dogs and cats and so if you have a pet you get charged airline fees housing fee so we figured out a way to get you out of all of that and that's coming out soon as well. Do you mean so we have the pet emotional support animal classification scam come on Josh. That's a scam. I think that I have a friend who wants to bring octopus onboard but go ahead. I mean maybe an octopus but eighty percent of America have anxiety can be really conferencing for that and and so we just WanNa make and this thing exists you have to pay like five hundred dollars whereas available to the rich what we wants to do is make these tools available to everyone I see so are we talking about entrepreneurs entrepreneurs when we get back like what the entrepreneur mentality is among young people now and then build like us like the same thing sort of happens with services we use the Russians taking advantage of of those things when we get back we're here with bill and Josh browder their father and son and they have some very different and interesting things. They're doing both related to the Internet. 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You'RE GONNA WANNA switch because T. mobile has been relentlessly expanding coverage with its low band six hundred megahertz spectrum Moore Towers more engineers and more coverage than ever before so you can go even more places and T. Mobile's right there with you. It's no joke if you haven't try t mobile lately. You haven't tried T. mobile. So try it go to t mobile dot com slash test drive use your own phone your own number all your apps everything everything check it out free for thirty days or thirty gigabytes data at T. Dash M. O. B. I. L. E. DOT COM slash test drive test test drive for thirty days or thirty gigabytes. You may need to upgrade your device. When you switch to get full coverage. We're back with Bill Josh Broder. A bill is the CEO of the Hermitage capital management and Josh his son is the CEO of do not pay. We're talking about his misses. I want to get into like what like to be an entrepreneur today but one of the things things that you've heard on even though you're dealing with sort of high level international finance stakes is the Russian continued abuse us and abuse of platforms for their benefit and against the benefit of consumers voters in different and and to manipulate people who talk a little bit about that because I think it does is like the ability of them to do it so easily had a lot to do with how they're so if you look at Russia right now. Russia has got an economy the size of the state of New York Mhm and the military budget is ninety percent less than the US military budget and it's such a corrupt country that eighty percent of the military budget get stolen so it's really two percent of the US military budget but at the same time that they're sort of flat Putin wants to be a proud muscular aggressive country but they can't do it on a symmetric basis so what they do is they they go out and they try to find places where they can be asymmetric and other words that were they can sort of hide in the shadows and cause trouble and one of the best places to do that. These today's is the Internet and the Internet is all sort of plausibly deniable. It's all yeah fuse. Nobody knows who's doing what to whom and the Russians are good technologically and when I say Russians say certain people in the Russian part of the Russian government on all Russians are bad but the re the Putin regime is bad and and they're out there on on very very what I would call low cost high impact basis there. They've got this troll farm in Saint Petersburg where Internet and I know all about that because I'm one of their targets constantly if you if you ever want to tweet something nice about me you'll have like fifty underneath you from the troll farm from all these supposed. Americans say saint terrible herbal. Things tried tweeting at these SCARAMUCCI would happen. It's the same it's the same thing as the technology which which they've mastered in and they've mastered it on twitter. They mastered it on facebook and it's very very difficult. It's difficult for two reasons to stop one is there's no rules the legislative legislation to say that people can't do it and and it doesn't appear as if these companies major social media companies have any proper barriers in place to stop it right and they don't seem to feel responsible. I mean it's interesting thing you know if if BP doesn't oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico they get sued for billions and billions of dollars and the damage they caused facebook and twitter have caused a lot of damage has no question aknowledged. It's been proven but they're not taking any responsibility and so until there isn't too until there is this stuff is going to go on and and and I'm sure the Russians are all licking their chops right now gearing up for twenty twenty well. It's interesting as I call it. The new Cold War like they've won. They've lost the Cold War and they certainly were inadequate to the task of winning wing it by the way overstated their ability in a symmetric basis they lost it but now they're playing plausibly deniable `asymmetry and they're winning it right now. The Vitamin Putin there's just laughing at the chaos that he's created all the anger the sort of intellectual and cultural civil war. That's been created with all the stuff which costs him nothing. One hundred million bucks two hundred under million bucks is the cost of the budget of Internet Research Agency and the other people that are doing this stuff. I mean compare that to the military budget that they can't compete with right which they ever could which they actually ever couldn't you all you. All you have to do is visit their understand. The difference which is rotting at the seams must have been writing for a long time clear so when when you think about these things Josh when on your career as an entrepreneur now one of the things that you're talking about is people that have created the Internet that have gotten. I wouldn't say cynical. Don't care about consequences talk about being a young entrepreneur now. Do you think people how old are you on twenty two right so you're a different class of than Zuckerberg's and the and then even before that the Google guys and stuff like that but there seems to be a change it seems to me in Silicon Valley coming among entrepreneurs that they're thinking about the impact of what they do. Is that car in my wrong about that. I just seem to be talking to a lot more entrepreneurs have a sense of social commitment that has a sense of their impact that it was sense of what they would there. Inventing matters like how they are inventing it matters I think among the entrepreneurs definitely however so I went to Stanford and still the majority so you like the actual ad for an entrepreneur like you went to Stanford. I'm not sure about and he'll be who's your VC we have a law. VC's all the sand hill boys boys right Korean street at a Silicon Valley Silicon Valley but everyone still wants to go work for facebook sometimes even pollen tear things like that but the entrepreneurs definitely defense I would say the There's a lot of bad stuff being created as well so you have to fight against that. So how do you think about that as an entrepreneur like how can we create a class of entrepreneurs governors. That's why I wanted to do. Is it young entrepreneurs that have a sense like one of the things I always say when they of speeches too young entrepreneurs I said imagine and I've done this is not a joke but it's a pretty a good joke. I said imagine that your invention is an episode of Black Mirror and don't make it like you don't if you can think of like the the most terrible thing but they you never think about that. I want to get the mentality of creators like how do you change that. You were trained at Stanford where a lot of entrepreneurs are trained. You're right in the heart of Silicon Valley. How do you change that dynamic among engineers to understand that one thing they could do could have an effect in Myanmar or blank. You know whatever it is so Stanford recently introduced commander Tori ethics classes I support that and I think that entrepreneurship what we try and think of a do not pay what the West them that can happen with every one of the products we make so with the free trials thing what if like everyone starts using it no more free trials that's kind of a situation but similarly with the past thing everyone has that pat says it's not the worst thing in the world and so I think just taking it to that next level is really important and when you're thinking of ethics. Did you end up taking an ethics. Course they care her. I did yeah I took multiple ethics but you think that as a entre like right now the entrepreneurs and you can't put everyone a lump but you really can Dan. This is a very genius group of people like type of type of person not necessarily but it's certainly not as diverse as it needs to be certainly not as thoughtful as it needs to be. How do you change. Is that fencing young entrepreneur. I think that the good news is the mockus changing it full of these entrepreneurs in the past the fashionable thing could have been attracting technology he to walk on all things like that these days unless you're if you do the slightest thing wrong apple remove you from the APP store and things like that so there's a strong incentive to do the right thing as well right but that's a financial incentive what about getting through to entrepreneurs their social impact. I think a lot of as a young person a lot of ethics of formed in college surges drumming into the students during college wherever they are if they go to college right and do you imagine there should be other people making decisions that these companies like that aren't necessarily one of my things have more different kind can't be all run by engineers necessarily yeah. I think lawyers are actually although I think that overprice their surprisingly ethical people also we need more noise than Silicon Valley Ella about that. They're going to be replaced by just just in case. You're interested in the ethics. They can all right exactly but you know bill. When you're talking about this this idea of letting this stuff go like you know in you could have let it go you could've you know corruption is kind of like? Putin corruption and goes together like chocolate and peanut butter essentially you know a lot of people told me when all this stuff was happening. You know I should just you let it go go to ground disappear. Forget about it and for me I just wasn't able to do that and and I think that there is something in a week. We come from a long online of justice. People might my grandfather. Josh's great-grandfather is political philosophy. I don't agree with but he was the head of the American Communist Party the Great Depression and he eats a spot to be well. I mean he actually had it. Probably the that was probably the high moment of the American Communist because is there was some because there was just such injustice where everybody was you know starving and few people had everything and so there's been this you know I I don't know whether it's genetic or cultural runs through our family where where everybody in including joshes little brothers and sisters everybody just feels like immense sense of anger at injustice and I don't know how you teach that. I don't know how how it comes comes around. Let's been the repercussions discussions for you for besides danger presumably well from avoiding umbrellas at all costs the repercussions have been absolutely dramatic and the Russians have have threatened to kill me. They wanted you back. There kidnapped me. They've gone after me. Using Interpol arrest warrants eight times. I was arrested in Madrid last summer on Russian Russian interpolar arrest warrant they've lived in London. They've applied to the British government's twelve times for mutual legal assistance and extradition allegations are that will have been convicted twice in Russian coordin- since to eighteen years in prison they've accused of murdering Sergei Magnitsky and murdering for other individuals rituals. Excuse me of being a spy all sorts of stuff. I mean it's basically I know that I've gotten right to write under VLADAMIR Putin skin by the amount of crazy the allegations made against me and certain way I almost wear it as a badge of honor because if I wasn't being effective and and and and they weren't feeling them they would you know they probably wouldn't be doing all this crazy stuff. Is there a chance that the magnitsky act I mean trump is his foul a great how does that were you the closeness of the trump administration to Putin well There's things there's there's Donald Trump himself and the trump administration and Donald trump and self is complete. He's off his head and probably the most the crazy thing. That happened was last summer. There was the first summit between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin and it was took place a couple couple days after the the the Indictment Rubber Muller indicted twelve Russian military intelligence officers and at the press conference after the summit which was held in secret create without any any people call we had a pen there there was no no no witnesses from the US side and the journalists Reuters resigned raises hand and said President Putin. Are you going to hand over they twelve Russian. Gru Agents and Putin who obviously been thinking about this all throughout the weekend response was is GonNa be said well as simple as that yes we will provided that President Trump Hanover bill browder and eleven evan of his members of his criminal organization which turned out to be Mike mcfaul the US ambassador to Russia Kyle Parker the chief of staff of the US Helsinki Commission in the drafted the Magnitsky Act taught Hyman who is an agent at the Department of Homeland Security that was prosecuting money launderers connection to the Magnitsky case and and a bunch of other people all somehow connected and Donald Trump said I think that's a brilliant idea and it took him about four days to walk that back and it was only one hour before the Senate voted ninety ninety eight to zero that none of us should be handed over and so Donald Trump. I don't know what what what's going through his mind. His administration is not like that. right. I mean at the same time as he was considering the spokesperson from the State Department's that it was absurd head of the FBI said that's not going to happen etcetera etcetera but I don't know what he's GonNa do but I'm not as concerned about the magnitsky act being repealed one simple reason is that it requires an act of Congress and I've I've met many members of both sides sides of the island where people you know criticized Donald Trump or not on the republican side. They're not going to hand over. They'RE NOT GONNA they're not gonNA allow. Russian tortures and murders come back into America so I think the Magnitsky ones because actually interestingly on Saudis. It's other stories so the Magnitsky Act has now been expanded to global after bad guys globally and after the I'm Jamal Kashogi murder Lindsey Graham and many other Republicans were pounding the table saying that these people should be sanctioned going right up to Muhammed bin Salman and in the end the admits the the US administration sanctions seventeen Saudis on the Magnitsky Act the one that Donald Trump wouldn't allow to be sanctioned is Mohammed bin Salman but that doesn't mean that it future is your government won't and in fact. I think NBS should be happy. Trump is in place because any President Democrat or Republican future will hand that man over yeah and then he could just play video jio games all day like he does apparently legend. It's interesting anyway when we get back at talk with bill and Josh Broder their respectively. CEO of the Hermitage capital management and the CEO of you do not pay their father and son talk about sort of where entrepreneurism is going and also where some things we need to do to protect our elections going forward. Hello Listener her. I'm Sean Ramos Firm. Host of today explained Vox Daily News podcast every day Monday through Friday my team and I look at what's happening. In the world. We pick one one essential news story that defines our moment and ask smart people to help us understand in about twenty minutes or less. It's the perfect way to start or end your day subscribed today explained for free on apple podcasts or in your favorite podcast APP from stitcher and the VOX media podcast network. We're we're here with bill and Josh Broder. Bill is the CO founder and CEO of the Hermitage capital management and his son. Josh is the CEO of do not pay. Where do you see like so you. Could you could endlessly they do this right. You could endlessly do all kinds of loopholes like moving on like from one to the next correct. That's what we WANNA do is wrote people in with one and then get them with a little blue pulse right and so the the concept is sort of the way modern societies now as we become more digitize. We've been sort of attached to everything we do is digital digital. Who are the worst offenders in this area. Is it just every part of it or is it. Just analog things or you're you're. You're talking about attacking online services or are offline services. Really I think everyone is very upset about privacy and rightly so but the biggest problem in the world is just incompetence equifax breach which happened because they didn't use basic encryption and we have that capital one hundred zero millions of people what happened there so people do that most people do but not everybody chameleons and millions of accounts then hundreds of thousands of social security numbers just released because they didn't encrypted properly and as like a it. It takes one Stanford Computer Science class to learn how to do that right. It's amazing that these corporations with billions of like I can't even do it properly and so I think every week there's going to be another data breach. Things like that is the real concern for consumers to woody when you think about that. I mean obviously it's you're using as a business opportunity as an entrepreneur corner to do that. at the same time as protecting people. How do you change the mentality of Silicon Valley to think like that because these are like. There's not auto companies like you're there. Are there are some that you know where you can. I suppose the closest analogy Rita. VPN's where you're GonNa Be Protected when you're surfing the Internet to protect your privacy or what you're searching on so you don't get marketed to endlessly which is another big problem being marketed to endlessly yeah I say woolas incentives and so if you can just punish the bad actors with maximum pain which is what do not pass trying to do then eventually hopefully will live in a world where they hire competent people at encrypt people's data and also down respond with odds endlessly. Do you think that will change. I interviewed Gabe Weinberg's instead of duct go. He's the founder of go and you know he's talking about. Why not why are we doing behavior your lads at all for example when contextualized justice lucrative in some ways. I think is go a long way to go to change. I mean the facebook. FTC fine line was not really a disincentive sh- it was a parking ticket yeah exactly your service to try to get back their money. Yes slap on the wrist. I think we have a long way to go yeah. So what does that say as an entrepreneur when that happens when a company like facebook pays a small amount of money to and then of course which they made up in seconds seconds. I'm a big believer in bottom up change That's obviously a top down changes. Big government coming in the government is not going to do anything it takes. Consumers was coming together to make a real change regulation from the government. Would you like to say I think you should have like massive. Fines like ten thousand dollars pucks Huma a data breaches automatically apply. I wanted fifty billion dollars in the FTC. What do you think I think that was like. I think that's the discount. Don't you think that's not enough uh-huh yeah. They'd be like what wait a minute. I think truly these companies yeah yeah. It's a lot of money so one is disincentives to do things things yeah. What about the an idea of a people investing in things that do because there is a point where I think consumers are going to control take back as they did did with entertainment and a lot of ways entertainment held people hostage to buy twelve songs album you had to see this movie when you sit down at this point and they had total control over your entertainment entertainment watching and I think people seized I illegally and then quite legally yes in the UK. We have this noodles coming out. I think throughout Europe Coupe de to which that means that oil financial data is yours every company holding it has to cry. API's I think we need similar stuff in the US data portability and what about the idea not just data portability really but the idea that your data is yours. I think so I think if someone is making money off of it then they should give you a royalty based big yeah or something like that and why doesn't that take them because they want all the money for themselves besides their Greenie yes. There's a whole black market where you can just by email addresses and things it's terrible MHM so when you're thinking about you know doing these kind of things you're exactly the reason I do. WanNa join us because one of the things we're talking about. I kind of want to appeal to these companies to do it for the for the right reason and then I'm like one of the reasons for the break-up for example if you break up youtube or Google if you break up into three whatever you do whatever you take off as the next next morning youtube gotta be saying you know what maybe or or there's room for someone else to say. I'm going to create a video service that actually protects kids. I'm going to create eight video search service. That doesn't track you as much. I'm GONNA create like you get an mentality of choice so that you appeal to something that people want. They didn't know they wanted on and yeah. I think that for the big corporations it will take them competing with each other to make this happen so with the new iphone update the sign in with Apple Apple I I'm I'm split on the one hand. It's very anti competitive on the other hand because you're locking people into the apple ecosystem. Awesome android is a great system as well on the other hand. forcing developers to implement privacy changes is great and Google and facebook. I'm sure they really hate. They hate the whole policy. They hate it which is made. I think it's good when they start complaining to me. The billionaire start catching about their lives. It's always a plus for me but but in terms of entrepreneurs and I'm not saying for good because it should be financially lucrative thing. How do you look at this as a business. You're not doing this just because you're a nice guy. I WANNA get people at a parking tickets. I think that creating an amazing service wall ultimately happy a great business opportunity and if your incentives are aligned with your customers I think is the most important thing for us as subscription and he starts. If people save money I'll thing is how can we save the money or get them success as quickly as possible. That's how businesses should be you thinking with facebook. The customer facebook is the advertiser not yes yes we realized that but but and Leslie for you when you're thinking about being being an entrepreneur raising money it's quite a frothy environment right now capitalists everywhere I always use the expression. There's not enough rat holes to shove the money down. What is that like as an entrepreneur right right now. There are certain autumn entrepreneur getting too many rights for example complete control over the company stock like you look at the way we work. IPO and you say Oh my God like that's sort of the the ultimate in complete investor abuse in some ways. I think they will come back to bite them. ultimately when the market crashes so that one of the benefits of having like a financial family as the. I don't buy any of this bubble stuff so I believe in the long term success and went to win. You're going out as an entrepreneur right now. What is the feeling in the market that you you think is a problem. In what do you think would be a good thing. there's way too much competition between the funds and I think you should just focus on the best partner rather than just getting as much money as possible right and you think about that. Oh you're soon normal. It's so lovely to talk to me and lastly. Let's finish up with you talking about the the concept of where we go from here with the elections. What do we how do we like? There's all this stuff stuffed up in the Senate right now. Moscow Mitch. Apparently that's his nickname on twitter. Ah So I've read is stopping that. How do you look at those things. What do you this? Is something that you're pushing to change well. I'm not directly involved in the legislation solution. I I'm I'm interested in sanctions legislation their assets however I'm interested in everything to do with Russia and and the and the Russians have not been penalized properly they have have not been punished and you know sort of like that five billion dollar. FTC fine facebook thumb. They will be back. Russians will be back and they will be back in any way they can. try to achieve their objectives which will be very inexpensive for them to do and and I mean it's remarkable if I mean so in in in Holland and for example they were worried about Russian interference in their elections and they had started to automate their ballots and what do they do. They went back to paper ballots right and it's been determined whatever whether you're Democrat or Republican has been determined that Russia interfered with the US election the interfered with with social media and they actually tried to get access to the voting machines and so it's illogical and inconceivable that there is not a consensus one hundred percents consensus that we need to tighten that up and the fact that we haven't is is absolutely shameful and there will be more interference in the future and and and and the trouble with that is that it could cut any different way right and so so let's just say that trump loses the next election. He'll then say OH is Russian interference appearance and he's not going to accept the result and so it's an absolutely you know at the moment that people lose confidence in the democratic system that's the the truly early terrible third world situation that we'll have to deal with and that's something that that will be just inconceivably bad for the future of this country so what what has to happen to sort of block the Russians well I mean it's pretty straightforward that on the social media side if someone were to change the rules to say that you know you can't have a twitter account countless your person you'd have to have like say who you are just had somebody has to have a record that you're like a real person and then real people can say whatever they want but like fake people bought can't and I would argue that facebook shouldn't sell political advertising. I would argue I mean I it's. It's how much money is enough to stop it. You know because anyone can do that political advertising and they have and they do and then I think that unless there's confidence in these latronic ballots just go back to paper ballots both. Microsoft is proposing both an encrypted digital ballot and which has a company paper ballot they match up this is this is not rocket science but the the indigestion of the legislative system and the fact that they're like no one's even willing to consider this is in Congress's. Why should say in the Senate House actually passed the bill the Senate it didn't right Moscow Mitch but Munoz Go Mitch. I mean even so my young children are like chanting Moscow Mitch. I mean you do that with them. Now kidding all that stuff needs to be fixed and and it's not being fixed and we're GonNa be wondering what what these guys were up to when the results come in in two thousand twenty so what is your. What are you focusing in on now well from my perspective? Protecting the magnets is protected from my perspective There's two things I'm doing one is to get other countries to pass Magnitsky Act when you've got magnitsky act passed by the United States we succeeded in getting a Canadian maybe Ski Act British Morowski his get an Estonian Latvian Lithuanian magnitsky act the island of Gibraltar and Jerusalem magness gags but the big prize is Europe the EU the Russians all travel to south France Sardinia Italy those those villas there the Marbella in Spain and they love that stuff and if we can get you magnitsky act on those villas. We'll get seized. They won't be able to travel. They'll be stuck sentenced to life in Russia and and that will be a huge huge thing. It's sort of halfway if way there the European some of the good European countries are are pushing it forward Hungary which is led by a man named Viktor Orban. Dan Who I've heard Buddy of Putin is trying to stop it. you got other countries like Italy where you have Salvini who is a best friend. Putin who's also trying to stop rapid and so it's it's a it's a struggle as a struggle in EU but that that's our big thing the other thing we're trying to do is we figure out who got the money who got the two hundred and thirty million in dollars from the corruption scheme that my lawyer. Sergei magnitsky exposed was killed over and we found that money and going through a lot of different countries throughout of different banks and we are working with law enforcement sixteen different countries to have the bankers prosecuted and the money frozen for the guys who value money more than human life life those people when they're assets frozen. Get very upset and that's a good thing. Well good all right. Thank you so much both of you. I Love Sun Son Father do social justice and use the Internet for profit but I really appreciate it again. Josh brought his company is called. Do not pay and I'M GONNA use it for a couple of things now that I realize I can do that and bill is still working on these issues around Russia and their complete abuse of financial systems the Internet etc thank you so much for coming on the show you can and follow me on twitter at Swisher executive producer. Eric Anderson is at Eric America. My producer Eric Johnson is that hey hey. Es J. Fill Josh where can people find you online twitter at bill browder twitter at Jae crowder one okay great and I'm going to praise you to see what happens and I'll say Strasbourg to all of them. You know that's what I do. I was talking to a reporter who is responding to Russian bots and I actually texted like those rush pot. Stop talking to them because they won't respond properly or sometimes they do go into long conversation. They can up all night and Saint Petersburg literally. You can catch them. There's a ways to catch them with certain words. You can use anyway if you. I liked this episode. We really appreciate it if you shared it with a friend and make sure to check out our other podcasts recode media pivot and land of the giants just search for them in your podcasting App of choice voice thanks also to our editor Joe Robbie. Thank you for listening to this episode of Rico Decode. I'll be back here on Wednesday tune in then hi. It's John Genero executive producer. SP nations team podcasts the NFL season is finally here and if you're anything like me you'll confer a podcast that covers your team so you can get caught up on all the relevant news and opinions on your way to work or school. espy nation has got you covered. We've created thirty two. NFL podcast one for each team's fan base hosted by fans of that team if you're looking for a deeper funnier Nerdier and more authentic podcast experience than any world. You want to check it out not every. 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An American Investor In Moscow

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09:59 min | 1 year ago

An American Investor In Moscow

"Welcome back. This Barada a podcast takes just ten minutes to get you smarter on the collision of tech business and politics. I'm Denver Mak. Today's show why sixteen thousand shoe store workers are losing their jobs and the new role of technology in the twenty twenty campaign, but I in American investor in Moscow, as we know that at the end of yesterday's show Russian authorities recently arrested, Mike Calvi, a US citizen and university of Oklahoma grad who for the past twenty five years has run a Moscow based venture capital and private equity firm called bearing dot capital partners. And he's also running pretty successfully. So for example, berry VO stock once invested in a Russian internet startup called yene dex at the time value to just fifteen million dollars today. It's publicly traded on the NASDAQ at a market cap of ten point three billion dollars. Anyway, the accusations here relate to a bearing VO stock investment in a Russian consumer Bank, which eventually fell on hard times. And for simplicity. Let's call it Bank one bearing VO stock then merged Bank one with another local Bank and to after the merger Calvi determined that the main investor in Bank to had improperly. Stripped assets. And he filed a legal challenge in London. That's now in the midst of arbitration, but in apparent retaliation that investor in Bank to Vienna, associate accused Calvi of artificially inflating, the value of Bank one. And because this is Russia what here would be kind of a civil shareholder dispute became criminal with Calvi and several other bearing dot colleagues arrested and today still sitting in a Moscow jail now bearing dock remains operating in Russia through this kind of interim leadership structure and his publicly expressing confidence that the Russian courts will not only determine it's a commercial matter, but also will investigate how it turned criminal privately. Though. Sources say the firm Calvi are justifiably terrified and concerned the Justice isn't necessarily what this case will in John the bottom line for now. This makes it virtually impossible for western investors to do business in Russia. And it also has parallels to the well-known case of Bill Browder as detailed in his best selling book read notice. So router was once a big time investor in Russia who was later expelled. On dubious tax charges, and whose lawyer was murdered in a Russian jail and Browder is actually spent the past several years campaigning, successfully usually for a form of sanctions that actually led to that. So called adoption issue discussed in Trump Tower. Yeah, this stuff is pretty central to global politics and in fifteen seconds. We'll talk to Bill Browder about my calves arrest. The first this axiom chief technology correspondent Dana free shares. Breaking news and analysis on the most consequential companies in players in intact from the valley to subscribe to get smarter faster at sign up dot axios dot com and now back to the program to podcast. We're joined now by Bill Browder CEO of Hermitage Capital, and the author of red notice so Bill when you first heard of Mike Calvi arrest. What was your initial reaction poke shocked and surprised shocked that stay would arrest another major foreign investor and surprised because my Calvi of all the people, I know a guy who I thought had sort of figured out how to play the rules of Putin's Russia. He had somehow figured out how to blend in fade in and play exactly by their rules. And so for them to turn on him of all the people, I know just seemed really outrageous and out of the ordinary. So when you say they turn on him. The Kremlin has said, I think we are monitoring the situation or something like that from your perspective. Is there any reason to believe that this is something that at least to date has been outside of their control and direction in my opinion. Absolutely. Not that to arrest the largest foreign investor in Russia that would create the kind of headline, and it does would have been absolutely for sure. Checked with Vladimir Putin going back to your situation years ago? But one of the things that happened was your offices, for example, got rated and there was obviously injuries and things got taken out as this moment bearing stock where my Calvi worked those offices haven't been rated. They continue to do business. Is that surprising to you? Or does that make sense that the government would continue to let the firm kind of operate albeit without its leader? And three of his associates in my case, you actually have to go back further, but well before my offices rate in so the the big moment of truth in my case was when I was abruptly arrested detained for fifteen hours and then expelled from Russia and declared a threat to national security that was the moment that the real problems began. And then my office is weren't rated for another eighteen months after that. And so basically the comparable situation from my Calvi was being arrested and put in pretrial detention to my aim deported. This is the catalyst or the moment that it all starts. What happens next could easily be an array of his office or more criminal charges? Or any of the number of things in my experience. Generally, when the Russian government turns on you. They create a whole mountain of problems. Not just one problem is put some other partners kind of in charge on an intern basis, and they've publicly put up a pretty brave front right business as usual. We're continuing to invest. We obviously disagree with these charges. If you were them, the folks who are actually running what would you be doing right now, they're really in a in a horrifying situation because there's two problems one is they now have six hostages, Mike. There's a Frenchman and four Russians that are working for them. And they can't sell their assets all their assets or private equity investments that are unsellable. And so they're totally exposed. There are people are exposing their assets or exposed, and so they're kind of at the mercy of the government, and there's not much they can do for may self interests. How do you explain what Putin and the Kremlin will be doing here vis-a-vis Calvi and bearing stock if only because if I am a non Russian or particularly western investor who had some interest, maybe even looked at bearing. Doc success and said, maybe I could do that this has to scare them clear away. True accepted. Just look at the numbers the amount of foreign direct investment between two thousand seventeen and two thousand eighteen has declined by ninety percent. If like less than two billion dollars a year. And so there is no foreign investment in Russia. And so the way that these things normally work this looks and feels like what they call a standard Russian raider attack. What that means is that some group of criminals who were highly connected with the Russian government and the Russian security services have decided that Baring Vostok has a bunch of valuable assets that they wanna have and they wanna have them effectively for free. And so they use the courts and law enforcement in order to get those assets. And so if you look at the risk reward they have several billion dollars worth of assets. And there's not even more than several billion dollars in the aggregate of foreign direct investment coming into Russia. So somebody has taken a view that they don't really care about foreign direct investment. But they do care about the assets that they could probably feel that's kind of how I would picture. Going on in the minds of the people who have taken view to do this. And I think that Putin is probably one of the people who was involved in that discussion a little bit of a different topic. You yesterday we're testifying in front of the European parliament on an e you version of the Magnitsky act what would zero reception there. So the Magnitsky act is is a piece of legislation aimed after my lawyer Sergei Magnitsky was murdered nine and a half years ago in a Russian prison after uncovering a massive government corruption scheme, and we now have Magnitski acts in the United States, Canada, the UK and the three countries of the Baltics and the last main hold out has been a you. And we are now just starting to get some traction in the u the Dutch government has put forth a EU wide Magnitsky act proposal, there's some disagreement among Member States about what it should look like. But it looks like we're finally getting their after nine years of advocacy, and if we do get there, this is something the Vladimir Putin really hates because what he does is he steals money takes hostage and kills people in Russia and then keep that money abroad in the name of Russian oligarch. Trusted friends in the Magnitsky act puts that money at risk. And so effectively Putin is ready to kill for money, and we've come up with a mechanism to take that money away. That's one of the harshest sanctions that we can come up with against leading recruiting Bill Browder. Thank you so much for taking the time. My final two right after this. There's more news out there than ever before. But these days it's harder than ever to find it and to know what to trust axios. AM takes effort out of getting smart by synthesizing, the ten stories that will drive the day and telling you, I they matter subscribe at sign up dot axios dot com and now back to the program to podcast. Now, it's time for my final two, and I up his pay less the discount shoe store chain that yesterday filed for chapter eleven bankruptcy for the second time in two years. That means the pending closure and liquidation of around twenty five hundred locations in North America. And the loss of sixteen thousand jobs, so what happened in short something called dividend. Recaps it's when private equity firms via company and then sometime later, basically make the company take out new loans or more debt. So the firms can take cash to themselves. It's kind of like refinancing your house, but somehow sticking your house with the new Bill anyway, that's what led to the original bankruptcy filing in mid two thousand seventeen and pay less. Never really recovered after that under new private equity ownership the bottom line here dividend. Recaps often do work out fine. And no one gets hurt. But when a private equity backed business does go bust and that happens a lot particularly in retail if the dividend recaps that are usually to blame and finally exercises. David McCabe has a great piece of this. Warning on how the era of so called geek candidates for president is over as he writes, quote for the first time the ability to understand the impact of technology and explain it to the American voter isn't something that sets a democratic presidential aspirin depart. It's expected for example, any club jar in her announcement may digital privacy net neutrality central and Kamala Harris has made online harassment the signature issue and several of the other hopefuls have discussed antitrust law, particularly when it comes to Amazon in short tech is now mainstream politics, and we're done big. Thanks for listening to my producers, Adam Grassi and Tim show. Vers have a great national love your pet day. And we'll be back tomorrow with another pro rata podcast.

Mike Calvi Russia Vladimir Putin Bill Browder Calvi Russian government Moscow Russian consumer Bank Calvi Bank US Russia Russia Denver Mak Trump Tower Sergei Magnitsky Kamala Harris
The politics of Interpol

FT World Weekly

12:27 min | 2 years ago

The politics of Interpol

"Hello, welcome to weld weekly with me. And then Sheni in the show this week. We'll be looking at INTERPOL the global police body the has elected its new chief you should eat. So rather, discreet affair, but the international institution has been in the spotlight and the subject of much conservancy in the past week after his president rather his former president Mang Homeway vanished after landing in China. It's appeared that he had been detained by Chinese authorities on suspected corruption and that yawn based institution was quite passive about it it accepted his resignation without doing much fuss about it. And then it appeared that Russian INTERPOL VP Alexander Poku cook was the front runner for replacing him which also caused a bit of stuff. Joining me in the line to discuss all of this from Moscow is Henry Foy the FTC's Moscow bureau chief and on the line from Brussels, Mike appeal all diplomatic editor, Michael. Everybody that Alexander poke up Chook was going to be elected. But that didn't happen. Can you explain why this hasn't been the case in why it caused such STA it was a story? And so then that broke quite late in into all had his general assembly Dubai where this was coming up, and it was really just in the days before that attention focused on the fact that there were there were really only two candidates who had a chance the Russian nominee a- as you say and Kim Jong who is another also vice president of of INTERPOL from South Korea and really came to a head twenty four hours before the vote when suddenly western countries led by a US and the UK amounted very explicit campaign to get Mr Kim, the South Korean candidate elected into towards the Russian candidate the Russians responded by saying that this was an unwarranted attempt intervene in the election. So it all go pretty bitter and turned into a kind of proxy for for much bigger. Geopolitical. Struggles. And in the end, Mr Kim this Korean candidate came out triumphant. I think that, you know, be interesting questions as go back and look at exactly why that happened. But there was clearly lobbying an quite intense lobbying going on in the hours and days before the vote. How do you explain that? There was such a backlash. Why people were worried all of a sudden that a Russian executive would take over the presidency of this institution. Well, the point about INTERPOL is that the candidates are standing as nominees over governments and what Mr. Procup jokes candidacy of from Russia really brought to a head was a much bigger battle over the soul of INTERPOL. If you liked there's a constituency of critics, which includes some in western governments, but also include rights groups, and others who say that the global please body is being manipulated by authoritarian states, including Russia in other words, those states have worked out that it's a very. Useful tool because it's a global hub for information exchange in so countries can fly to have arrest warrants issued by so-called red notices or they can go even more directly and send out so called diffusion orders directly to INTERPOL members to ask for he pool. They want to tug it to be arrested. And obviously, this has many legitimate uses and nobody disagrees that INTERPOL plays a very important role in breaking up, the drugs networks, paedophile networks and so forth. But what the critics say is that it is also open to this kind of political abuse. And that the number of these requests interaction has soared over the next few years, some of the Russian dissidents were caught in INTERPOL controversy vite, can you give us a few examples of what happened to them? Well, the most high profile case is probably that of Bill Browder who is a financier who has become a leading critic of the Kremlin. After Sergei Mike meets ski accountant was beaten to death in a Russian jail in two thousand nine. This case Moscow has said this to Browder is wanted for questioning on suspicion of involvement in tax evasion and added new charges in the run-up to this into vote. Mr. Browder says that these are completely trumped up this persecution of in political persecution. And indeed he was briefly arrested in may and Spain Bill Browder when he was visiting actually to see the top Spanish anti-corruption prosecutor on the morning of the meeting Spanish police officers came to his tell to arrest him. They suggested that this was because into Paul request into Paul said that Mr. Bradley was not wanted in it system. So it appears that what might have happened is that there was a previous Russian request which had been cancelled by INTERPOL. But that it was still held on. The database of some member countries including Spain, and Mr. Browder says this is an example of why the system doesn't really work in the once a country has put something out even if it is deemed by INTERPOL to be political pursuits Nefer, not valid. It's very difficult to raise that request from the databases of the police forces all INTERPOL member countries, which now number one hundred ninety four so almost every country in the world. We how has this whole fair been perceived in Moscow, and why do that matters much from us not take takeover to tech the presidency of this institution leading up to the vote. The Russia was trying to down play the west criticism and saying that it was committee unwarranted yesterday. The Kremlin said that it was unfortunate that that kind of had triumphed in the election that they would continue to work in as I'd into pollen. They sort of important organization today, the Russian foreign ministry spokesperson, whereas Carver stepped up the responsibility. She's she called it an unprecedented disinformation campaign of precious launder an anti-russian frenzy by the US in principle against Russia to try to lobby other countries. She's call it a gross interference in the internal affairs of independent international organization, which positioned itself as politicized. And I think Russia is sort of feeling a little bit hurt by this in the last few days. Michael said, the US in particular. Mike Pompeo's active. State came out and declared his support for the South Korean candidate, which is not standard procedure for countries to endorse other candidates like that this plays into a much bigger story that which is about Russian perception of self in world affairs. They see themselves still as a major global player and a country that should be allowed to throws way to run an organization such as into we've seen the way that they responded to Trump's decision to withdraw from the treaty in much the same way Russia being a little upset ego bruise that other countries don't see it anymore as a major player don't trust it. If you like to handle Asian such as INTERPOL, and Moscow has also criticized the western countries for abusing the institution. Right. They've criticized the role of the UK in chasing after the two Russian suspect in the poisoning attempt in the UK. That's correct. I mean as Michael was saying there's been a to control over these red notices and the idea that Russia in particular rusher over the last decade, but increasingly over the last five years or so. Mr. Procacci as the head of Russia's INTERPOL office stepping up this campaign of does is to try to put pressure on Russian dissidents, people that the Kremlin considered to be enemies of the states, and in response to the western criticism of them Moscow said well, you guys do it too. You're going after people in our country, and you're using INTERPOL in a political way to try to reach your ends. I mean, this is probably a struggle. It's going to continue way pasta selection. This will not be the end of it. How into Paul restructures itself or looks into these retinal disease, and how countries can abuse use the system, I think is is a much deeper question. And I think in many ways, this this election has opened a little little bit on how this all works. Exactly. So I mean, this New South Korean President Kim Jong, and we know a little bit more about him. And Michael are going to be the challenges is going to be facing. I mean, presumably the whole credibility of situation is is at stake. Now, I think that's right. And he's upset. Lutely right to say that the election is really a microcosm of of a much bigger challenge. Facing into bowl. And it's always been based on the idea of good faith cooperation between nations which still stands in cases. For example, earlier this year where Russia cooperated with Belgium to get the alleged leader of epic drugs cartel extradited to Moscow, and you know, that was an example of cooperation in legitimate criminal case. But clearly there is this massive political dimension. It's fed by other geopolitical rivalries between Russia and western countries and INTERPOL needs to work out. How he's going to handle that. I mean, they're responsive are is will we are forbidden by constitution to politicize anything that we do which in the narrow sense is true. But of course, it's probably not enough even this gravity of what's going on. And of course, as you mentioned in your intro. There's also the mysterious case of why this election was necessary tool, which was that the previous Chinese president had disappeared on the trip to. China and the Chinese authorities withdrew his into Pola credits and said that he was under investigation for corruption since when nothing has really been heard about his case. So again that also highlighted some of these concerns there's also a question about a lot of lawyers and others say about the transparency and nimble -ness of Interpol's procedures and a very good example of that is so called commission for control of Interpol's files, which is this quiz. I independent body which basically people have complaints about a red notice that they think has been issued wrongly against the more. They think INTERPOL holds inaccurate data the way they challenged that is by going through this commission. But this commission lawyer say is pretty slow in the way that it works. Indeed. If you look at the website says that in order to bring a challenge this commission, you have to do it by post to Leon which is where INTERPOL is based. And it seems on the face of it quite surprising that in twenty eight teen the requirement is to deliver. For the challenge by post, particularly when some of these events taking place in real time that people that arrest warrants could be enacted within hours, either by national law enforcement authorities who know that someone is in that country or indeed if that person is traveling whenever they cross the border. So in other words, the kind of pursuit of suspects that INTERPOL can help with often in real time. And yet the processes just don't see the the oversight and the checks and balances just don't seem designed to cope with that into Paul says it started some reforms continue to do. So it insisted addressing this. And I think that will be the big test. Now, people will be looking at going forward a real willingness to reform into pull from its members away. It's it's sued them. All right. You have a pretty loose and far reaching one is Asian. He knew that can help them chase. Whether they think is criminal and escaped the country. I think that's a very interesting point that you know, rather, let the United Nations. You have an organization in which all will almost all of the world's countries members. They're clearly going to be all kinds of frictions and disputes and factions and interests and so forth. And I think that what into poll needs to do and its members in their own interests is to perhaps try to separate out a bit and treat us to almost discreet questions will number one those the political disputes that we've talked about, and let's put those to one side moment. But then let's make sure that because of these political disputes, we don't destroy the very valuable legitimate law enforcement cooperation, everyone on all sides agrees that INTERPOL helps with and you know, it will be a terrible indictment. If the results of these disputes kind of pulling into Pol Pot was drug dealers and pedophiles and other criminals were more able to get away with that crimes. Well, that's really well summed up I guess the basic question is really can this institution work at. A time of rising geopolitical tensions. Thank you so much Michael and Henry, and that's it for this week till next week goodbye.

INTERPOL INTERPOL Moscow INTERPOL Russia Michael Bill Browder president Paul Kim Jong Russia US UK Sergei Mike Mr Kim China Russian foreign ministry Alexander Poku Henry Foy Dubai
Nancy Pelosi's Arms

Dumb, Gay Politics

1:09:19 hr | 1 year ago

Nancy Pelosi's Arms

"Hey, guys. Well, we are super excited to announce that we're on cast box. Now cast box is the fastest growing highest rated podcast app on both I o s and Android, and it does have all your favorite podcast. Okay. Okay. You could still listen to delegate politics wherever you get your podcast, but we just want you to try cast box. We literally hate every single other podcast provider as you guys know, and especially the main one which one we're talking about. And we're super excited that we're finally on Cass box. Because we think it's the best. So try it. It's all shit. It's all just I'm gay politics. America's in kinda why? But we're not going to let it go down like that. Because we've got a dumb gay podcast Adum gay political podcast. We probably don't have all the facts. But we got a pin them. We'll probably backtrack. That's too dumb gay podcast Adum gay political podcast. It's ocean. It's all shit. It's all shit. It's all shit. I mean, I don't know. I three I am extremely. Of this shit is. The. This shit. Is Trump t- argue MP eight an ES what I don't know. I don't even know. Welcome to dumb gave politics. I'm julie. And I'm brandy. And this is the podcast where we recap the week in politics like we are talking about the week in reality. Tv. Why are we even doing a podcast? We should just take in the week off after the Bill Browder episode. If anyone if this is your first time here, or if it's your first time in a long time, or if you just check in turn this off immediately go to last week. I listen to the icon episode with Bill Browder 'cause this shit. We're about to do. It's just regular weed Honey in his regular regular we'd. Yeah. Healer Oui that was really cool that was cool. He's so interesting, and smart and brave and. No, if he was proud of it, but you know. Well. He didn't reach. We'd it. I guess we're lucky because we don't really need Putin trying to kill us. So maybe he was protecting us. Maybe he was you know, what I mean? He was he was looking out for us girls. You know? But I we will not stop and scrunchy nineteen. There are people that we we want on this on this podcast. Yeah. And we're going to try to get them. Yes. We are. So Bill Browder, which is situated the iceberg. And that was really cool. So we got some gifts. We sure did. Now, we got a box of macaroni and cheese. And from Devon Ron. And I don't know if Devon wanted to keep it a secret. But that I haven't seen you delighted like that. And quite a while. So that was very exciting. You open that box. And all I didn't. Because I wasn't standing next to you. When you opened it and you open and you're like, oh my God. I'm like, yeah. It's Devon I love it so much. It's Andy's MAC and cheese. It's the assorted kind we all know where you get the white kind. And then you get the regular MAC. Will you yellow MAC and cheese? And then you get shells, the shells with better yellow, and it's that thing and it's two of them. I know a kind of want to make the shells tonight. I mean, it's so good. We eat it at least two times a week. And it's Devon did not include her name. No, we had to we had to sleuth it out sleuth it out an on the weekend and boxed came through it came from the store called boxed, which I gotta say again Devon the gift that keeps on giving. I've been eating that vicious treats still from nothing. We've got an Austin. Yeah. And using the essential oil mixture and the diffuser, gee, I mean, yes. So so kind and loving, but this place boxed I like to shop. On line four common. Homegoods. I want to order hand, soap I used to go to the called drugstore dot com. I would get miles. You literally go through the American mileage mall. I'd get the miles, and I would get like seven miles a dollar. And I'd be like you best believe I'm getting out to get Q tips. Deodorant hanso Lysol again every single thing. You get at the drugstore, and I would get seven miles a dollar, and it would come right to my door. And I would not be playing around with crowds parking losers. Lines tools. You're in my way, you're hovering. I need to get to the Neutrogena your fucking hovering in Weiser a man in the aisle. It's not Johnny. It was me. And so drugstore dot com. The left, and they kind of did like, I think they might have merged with like Walgreens dot com and Walgreens just doesn't have the selection. They don't they just don't they just don't online. It's just not happening. So then I would start doing Amazon a little here and there, but Amazon is obviously evil we're going to get more into that later in this episode and to see this this the selection on boxed, it's even grocery shit, its grocery shit. It's food the thing about drugstore dot com. They never had any food. So it's not like a thing. You can literally just go on there and do your shopping, and they'll send it to you. I saw cue tips. I saw lots and lots and lots and lots of mood. It is the business Devon business cameras on FOX right off. We all need to again, we're going to get into it. But we all need to find alternatives. I want to let you know that I was searching for books. I wanted to see what would happen if I looked for certain kinds of books online because I told you. Was interested in the founding father? Yes. So. So I decided like we'll how am I going to do some research? I'm going to have to look for a book so was looking Amazon Amazon, Amazon, Amazon, Amazon, Amazon, Amazon, Amazon nothing wasn't Amazon, and you have to if you want to get any book outside of Amazon. What I did was. I was I looked founding fathers Barnes and noble. Yeah. You have. And the only way you can do it. They've monopolized even the search for it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Because. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I'm surprised Google even well again, we're going to get into it. But Devin, it was a gift in more ways than one we recommend boxed. And God knows. She's probably like a little do. They know that cost one hundred dollars. But I don't know it was a heavy box. We don't know exactly. It said I deliver free. But I'm gonna do it because I don't like leaving the house. So. Then we gotta gift so sweet for Megan canal. We're thinking that's mayor last night. Yeah. We met her in Austin. She was in a d GP shirt that she made. And she said she had t shirts for us. Yes. But she like did you get into Airbnb? So she forgot the shirt, right? She had two seconds. She had she just forgotten which was also funny. And then so so I gave we gave her. Oh, yeah. Our one of our shirts because we had the merch there. We're just very very very real for real a real show with real Mertz. So we gave her a shirt, and she said that like she thought that was so sweet. And it's like, I mean, of course, she's getting a free shirt. She made a shirt, right. And she was a total hilarious angel and said she was drunk too. So you got a judge Julie shirt. Yeah. And I got you look weird. You gonna be weird? And it's giving you they have a rainbow on the sleeve which. I love and they're giving you they're giving you that look like seventies. Yeah. Like, yes. Bad news bears. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Which I love very cute. Now, also in the in the thing was in the box was pictures from the show, and I just want to let you know, Megan every single picture from the show was fucking hideous. There was an issue above which was there was a disco ball above us, right, which I guess we had originally thought was the move. The disco ball is casting light. It's I'd like to call it a fat light. And also making my hair look, terrible light. It's my face awful lights, highlighting body. Terrible light weird. Like, it'll go across my lip milk like have a hare lip and some, of course, all the ones that were put on Facebook by my actual high school friends. I was like that one comes across Instagram, and I'm like, I look full hair. Look, I am so glad I'm off a Facebook and any of that. No. I don't want to know about any of the pictures that are on their saw that. And it looks so weird the only, and I mean, my hair just wasn't happening. And I guess apparently. Neither was yours. But no my God. The only picture that doesn't look hideous in insane are these ones with Megan as far as the light is concerned. Right. Like so Megan thank you for that. Because I was just like every picture from that show is such a wa and she sent us pictures from being on stage that was not the nicest card. Yeah. Nicest nicest card and did say I want to say that it's she said it's been a sheet year for me and my family and one of the only things I look forward to for the past twelve to eighteen months. Is like is a new episode and patriotic and she drove like four hours to come. See? I know thank you so much a so nice. Thank you for this box. And there's candy. I didn't even like I like revisited. And it was like oh shit. There's all candy and there was like face math and stuff and just as really sweet and thoughtful. And you totally didn't have to do that all the expect is that you joined the patriotic try four hours that come see a show presents aren't necessary. That's right. And for anyone who's in Washington DC that is our next. Stop. We don't have a date yet. But it's coming. It's coming what we think it's going to be in June. Probably so get ready is that the tristate area. Now. No, we are. Also, I think it's not the the ink hasn't cleared. However, we have been we are in negotiations to do a live podcast that the national women's music festival in July. And that is in wool coming Wisconsin. Wisconsin onset -sconsin. Yeah. National women's music festival. So check out and look for that. So that's an July early July July fourth through the seventh and then DC is coming in June. So get ready, and he's a what is in driving distance of DC, Philadelphia maryl-, Maryland, Delaware, Pennsylvania, New York. Yeah. Exactly virginia. So get ready in DC is if you haven't been DC is so fun, and it's so fucking fun in the summer. That's when we went we had the best time best, but it's definitely destination like New Orleans, and even though totally fucking sucks that Trump's president when you go. It's also kind of tacky too. It's kind of like just going to like the tacky White House. And I mean, do it go to the White House, by the way, you'll make your trip, and you won't even get to go to the house. We got we practically had to suck tend to. And there was no way. I wasn't going to get in there with Obama. But you it's it's completely like DC is is magical. I love it there. So we're really looking forward to that. And why don't you tell them about the patriotic because we're really really hit you guys up for the patriotic. Tell you friends, friends and FAM WWW dot patriots dot com slash dumb gay politics for one dollar one dollar one dollar. You can get a new. Episode. That's not politics. That's just like weird. And we're talking shit. We're talking to each other where you know, you just we're just talking. We're just talking about stuff. Now, this week's is not good. The last two weeks have been terrible. But there's some good ones. There's a lot of good ones. And you have in the ones that you don't think are good are still good and. Yeah. If you just want to keep listening where we're just not doing really politics. That's the that's the move. That's the place to go to patriot dot com slash dumb gay politics. It's just one dollar and episode someone talking up into your face about whatever. And it's not always a friend. And you always were here for you. And you won't feel alone. That's right. It will be with you. Whether you're working out or you're in a waiting room. I all in my bathroom process. Oh, that's good. Yeah. That's my most. That's my my time for like Howard Stern. And like podcasts usage is my bathroom. And I would think you well, definitely in the bathroom. Yes. I also. I was just thinking like I'm going to go for an MRI. I will would love a podcast in that situation. If I'm in a waiting room, if I'm in like stuff, like like, you know, where you're going from those kinds of things if you're going to a doctor, you go into your whatever. Or are you going all that kind of stuff I love where usually on the phone when you're in waiting rooms. That is true but bathroom for me bathroom time is Howard Stern news all radio. Yeah. That kind of thing if I take a if I'm driving. I would put that on. I'm trying to get. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. I'm dry like a long drive at home when I'm cleaning. I'll do it cleaning is good. Yeah. We're usually when I'm driving through on. But with I'm driving in the morning from my place to yours. Yes. That is a good time for me to have on something such. Yeah. So I wonder if I think people probably did on their commutes commutes perfect time. Yeah. But the patriots are evergreen, really. So there's a lot of really sweet angels. Who we've heard from that have said that they've gone back and listen to like all of the podcasts, we got a really really sweet Email. From this girl who said she went back and listen to all the podcasts, and like these ones, and these ones really aren't evergreen don't back into like a talking about like ding Dong the witch right? So with those and that's only been on. I guess a year and a half. But. Those those you can go back, and we're just same old douchebag onto the same old shit. Look a never ending circle of shit talking. The circa share out. Well, let's you know, there's nothing like just not feeling alone. Just feeling like you couple pals talking about whatever. Yeah. And it really does fill the time. And like, I will listen to sometimes I'll just listen to us. If I can't talk to you about that. Exactly. And anyone who send us messages in? There have been like a few people who sent us really long detailed heartfelt messages. I want you know, we get all of them. And sometimes I don't I don't we don't read them because you know, one girl said that she like like recently lost or she lost her mother and two thousand fourteen and also Aaron we want to give a shadow to Aramark sees that he lost his mom on. Sometimes it feels like maybe we don't really have permission to read those or they feel so vulnerable moments from someone that we don't read them because we don't know if we can right. So if you want us to read it, you should put on the end like PS, please. Read this or you have permission to read this or something. But but usually when you send us long, really sweet supportive ones. We're like we just keep it, I heart. That's right. And we read them to each other, and sometimes shed a tear. That's right. A lot of times. All right. Well, let's get to I've the shit storm. Shit put up on the wall chicken. Take shit bought off of the wash put it down on the floor in the glass bowl. She'd take so fuck and put up on the all, right? So this week the shit storm started blowing when Trump's campaign manager Paul Manafort went to court for his sentencing, but the shit storm really hit the shit fan. When the judge only gave him four years the prosecutor was asking for twenty four years and the mother fucker got forty seven months if you can put your sentence in two months, exactly a fucking fuck like your child. She's forty seven months old. That's basically how much time juicy Joe got for fucking tax evasion. Like straight up, and they sent his goddamn wife to prison to and now they're deporting juicy Joe. And this fucking trader Paul Manafort who admitted to illegal foreign lobbying and money laundering gets the same sentence as Jody Giudice, like it's just I don't I Paul Manafort is a literal trader he does dirty deeds for other countries like Russia and Ukraine over here in America. And he gets paid for that is his literal job. Yeah. Yeah. That's what he does. You're living like the most shadiest grossest competent countries, he he does their dirty deeds here in America, dirty work or makes an even like what he did in Ukraine with the horrible dictator there. And you remember when what's that thing? And they were fighting against that lady who then gets put into the prison, and they tried to poison the other guy, Paul Manafort was helping out with that will people are having it. Honey, they're not having it. They are pissed off at this judge and this country and rich white men with expensive attorneys now here's a little rundown of what happened. Okay. We'll play this clip pouring in this morning as Paul Manafort got a much lighter sentence than he faced under the federal sentencing guidelines in brief remarks in court Thursday Manafort asked for compassion, let never expressed remorse. That's something. The Virginia judge noted, but that judge also added that Manafort has no criminal history and has quote lived in otherwise blameless life as the White House tries to turn the page. Democrats are. Crying foul. A stunning fall from Greece wants President Trump's campaign chair Paul Manafort now, a convicted felon sentenced to nearly four years in prison wearing a green jumpsuit and in a wheelchair due to complications from out Manafort asking for compassion. The last two years have been the most difficult years for my family. And I he said to the judge to say I have been humiliated and shamed would be a gross understatement. His attorney speaking out overnight. What you saw today is the same thing that we had said from day one. There is absolutely no evidence that Paul Manafort was involved with any collusion with any government official from Russia. House intelligence committee chairman Adam Schiff, calling that a deliberate appeal for a pardon Manafort had been facing up to twenty four years in prison. But the judge calling that excessive that's an extraordinarily lenient sentence. I think I've spent more days and attention in high school, I'm really ticked off about this. One of my friends says. We have a criminal Justice in the treats, you better if you're rich and guilty than if you're poor and innocent Manafort convicted of financial crimes, including tax and Bank fraud served on the Trump campaign for only five months stepping down because of growing questions about his business dealings in Russia since then President Trump has tried to distance himself. You know, he worked from the reverse short period of time. But man recently praising Manafort for not flipping on him. It's very sad. What's happened to all the way he's being traded the president taking a very different tone toward another former ally. Michael Cohen, calling him a liar and a rat. Because he did flip on Thursday Cohen suing the Trump organization for one point nine million dollars in legal fees, saying the organization broke its promise to pay his legal bills. Once he started cooperating with prosecutors all this amid new scrutiny over this comment. Cohen made Takagi last week. I have never asked for nor would I accept a pardon from president. Trump Coen's lawyer Lanny Davis acknowledging to NBC news co did at one point direct his former attorney to explore possibilities of apart in with President Trump's attorney but Davis insists that does not conflict with Coen's congressional testimony because Cohen is no longer cooperating with the president's legal team. Markelle Cohen live Lago dog. What he did? I wonder if Michael Colin went take a partner, not I'm me too. And also he's saying like like it's almost like as if he woke up from some Trump coma. And he's like, wow. And what was yeah. What was I thinking? It's like, what do you mean? You did it for so long. You knew exactly what you were doing. Yes. He knew what he was doing. And he also did suffer his own self. And he was he knew that he was being shady, and then he's loyal for so long. And he's realizing now that Trump is not going to do anything for him. And now he's pissed. Yeah. So now, it's like, he's do you know what I mean? Right. That's what it is. It's like now he's like, oh, I've woken up. You're all going to be screwed too. But here's a little information about gout, which apparently he has. Yes. Which when I think of gout, I think of like seeing some man at like, the grocery store with like one giant foot that I'll be like, whoa. Or a hand hanging down. That's like huge. Well, you know that gout is called the king's disease. Okay. Because things have one big giant hand. Well, because the that king Henry the eighth had gout. I'm going to read to you what it says on this this website. Okay. Gowda sometimes referred to as the disease of kings. This is because people have incorrectly linked it to the king. The kind of overindulgence in food and wine, only, the rich and powerful. Could afford in fact gout can affect anyone and it's risk factors vary. So the, but that's the thing with lie. King Henry the eighth and stuff because it's but generally, it's like obesity, and blah, blah, blah, however and alcohol, however, they there's other people who have got to and they so I've looked for like the most famous people out. Jared Leto has gone. That is so random be. Jared Leto age forty five is an actor best known for movies line Lula Leno developed gout like foot pain after gaining sixty pounds for the film chapter twenty seven which played the role of Mark David Chapman. Yeah. Blah, blah, blah. And then most classically effects the joint in the base of the big toes of the arthritis for some reason. I don't know why the tow your toes like, yeah. Because it becomes huge. Yes. Coming on whatever joint blows up. The fact that Paul Manafort is sitting in a wheelchair and he chose gout as his fake disease. Exactly is. So just I it's such a. It can be if you don't have the big swollen appendage. It's really a mystery disease at somebody uses so they don't have to meet up with you like oh my playing. You know, it's my foot. I can't walk right? Whatever in its arthri. It's basically arthritis in. God knows it, and it is painful, but motherfucker just got out yet and had to go to trial, and then to sit in a wheelchair and now wants leniency, and is looking all pathetic and humiliated beyond humiliated beyond measure. It's like not for nothing. Jussie smollet douche of the century by Jamal by them. All so fine pretended to get beaten up sent a stupid fucking letter beyond. I mean. Okay. Okay. But ultimately. And yes, the resources of the police and all that kind of stuff, but ultimately outside of that. No one got hurt. No, no, no, no, no society, her was affected with you know, what I mean steal anything. He still nothing. This person has been stealing money for over ten years from not just from our country not paying taxes, but taking money from full dictators and housing dictated lobbying. It's a legal. He's hiding foreign Bank accounts. He's money laundering. Right, right. Up admitted guilty as charged guilty your honor. He admitted it up all of the above. I constantly think about this. This is why he's horrified. If you want to know the truth because he can't die his hair. And you see you see in the mugshot in the the gray roots are lining, all those great. Then in the in the drawing yet because there was only a drawing of the green Johnson it never. I bet the green jumpsuits pretty tight. I love him much like that. I love it. And I've never seen a green one. That's probably the I guess for rich whitey's in the. Yeah. That's got to be minimum security. He's up in there with old forty main off yet with burning and Ellen hot chocolate and shit. Right. That together they'll come out and be like, we've got a new hedge fund gone anyway fund. Yup. He has his his roots. But in the in the drawing of the court, it's long and grey, Honey, the palm Madore is still in effect. He's got like a he's got a puffy type hair on. Well. I'm quite sure that he and his lawyers have worked out a way for him to look as pathetic as possible. And then he will get the hair dye for the next four years o once he's in prison. Yeah. Absolutely. He's going to get that take. He's going to get that put into the corn rows put in. I hope he gets a straight corn rows with that long hair. He gets hair dyed black and get some corn rows. That's yeah. That'd be amazing. It he'll go on like MSNBC like yo- yoga don't like one more year in the penitentiary. One more year penitentiary be turn on don't even let him don't. Let me write him a letter. Just like let me holler. Now. I mean, the judge said that the reason the sentence is so small because people are coming for the judge, and they should come for the judge because the judge is the one that said that he has lived a basically a crime free life, or whatever the whole man's life has been a crime and the last ten years have been actual crimes and not just crimes like he's a fucking trader TD's to be taken and thrown out of this country. Oh, you want to go be amongst Russians by girl. Yes by Jamal. Go live in Russia and see how that does yet. We just go. Listen to the Bill Browder interview. If you want to go live among oligarchs. Yes, you want to go fuck around amongst those guys and then come back and have the protection of this country. And no, no, yeah. Why can't they just sent into the Ukraine? He said he has zero remorse. They said he ain't merciless beyond. So basically the deal is that this judge and this sentence which was in Virginia. It's for strictly tax evasion. Like joe? Judy right. So in DC is where he's going to do money laundering and foreign lobbying. And that's that lady judge, right? The lady judge who told old Roger stone fucking oh to shut the fuck up. Yeah. She gave him a gag order. He's thirst trapping on Instagram all night. So she can you believe her luck. She doesn't play. So you believe they're saying though, that she could like let's say she's 'cause I believe this judge got a bag of money delivered to his Brownstone status. Yeah. So let's say she got the same bag of money. Okay. She could potentially. I think I got this. Right. Give him for years and just make it right level with that for years, and he's already. Going round nut not a total of eight like she can make it. Go simultaneously like time served time served. Oh, yeah. So he doesn't even get any more than he has now if she so chooses, and he's already served nine months, so he's already goalie has three more. Well, do you think that she's going to do that? Or she going to be like stick in it to like, what is she going to do? I think it depends number one on his attitude. I think she couldn't handle Roger stone. No. But I think that like the probation office in Virginia recommended not even just the prosecutor the probation office who looks at crimes and punishment. And makes just like when you have a probation or they recommend in nineteen to twenty four years before I think this bitch, even if she's not offended if he rolls it in his fucking jazzy with big soul and his gray hair. And I think she will give what they recommend. Okay. He's not playing in only. But if she doesn't that we know she got the bag of money. Yeah. Absolutely. You're getting paid. And then there's of course, the question of is Trump gonna pardon him. Exactly. Let's hear President Trump as I like to call him his his reaction. Okay. Because found this react. I love this. I think it's been a very very tough time for him. But if you notice vote, his lawyer, they highly respected man, and a very highly respected judge the judge said there was no collusion with Russia had nothing to do with Galucci. There was no collusion delusion. Hope it's the glue which I don't collude with Russia. So I just want to tell you that his lawyer was out of his way actually to make it last night. No collusion with Russia. There was absolutely none. The judge. I mean, for whatever reason I was very honored. By also made the statement that this had nothing to do with collusion with Russia. So keep it going go. She did. That court under diverse. There's no going you look at Devin Nunes and the house intelligence commission committee. They his Doku. And guess what? There is none. I mean, talk Devin Nunes, I mean. Yeah. No, no shit. No shit. There was no nobody was talking about collusion in the case in the hell twain, it was that the judge said this wasn't about collusion. He said he didn't say there wasn't any collusion. He said this just isn't about that right now. Do you think Trump is going to pardon metaphor? Because you said right after you saw this. You're like damn I feel like he's going to now I know that or he wants to. And maybe it's a thing of like never going to be like. Yeah. But if you pardon him, New York is just going to draw him or a York the district attorney in Newark got got a whole case together. It's all sitting in a file labelled use this. If Trump parts Manafort, right? So I don't know that he can. He could pardon him. And then I guess he would have to get tried in New York. But I feel that that statement he was giving to the press was his pre pardon pre pardon statement. You know, what I mean like I feel very badly for him. He's a good guy. There's no collusion. I mean, the collusion the collusion hoax the witch hoax. All of it is just getting ready to pardon him. Because then he's going to say he had a rough deal. You know, right, whatever, whatever whatever. And then he'll he'll pardon him. But maybe they'll talk him out of it. But I feel that Trump wants depart. So he can't part in like a three prong sentence of like D C, Virginia, New York. No. He can't. I think he can only do federal okay watch active measures. Because if you, you know, just to get informed on all the levels of all the people. Do doing all the Russia shit, including Paul Manafort, and and watch get me Roger stone. Because Paul Manafort is in that too. And it gives you the entire background of stone. And Manafort and how he came to be and what he did his job and all of it. Yeah. And there may not, you know, there there was collusion. I mean, that's all there was to it. It's like, they're they're collusion is talking in. They talk to Russia. Alright everyday. We know Jared creepy Kushner set up the back channel, it's all there. It's all there. It's all there. You're either even talking about it. Now, I don't understand. It's like whether you want to use the word collusion conspiracy talking with meeting getting together hooking up. Yeah. Connecting tissues hate a play. I mean, they did it all all all. So what are dead with them? They're in fucking bed with them from from drumpf from from way back when from way way back when in bed with Russia, period. Okay. Now, we get to keep talking about more rich corrupt white Astles over on candidate streets. Can you tell me how to get how to get to candidate street? Get two candidates which way going. To get two candidate over here by Elizabeth loden. Yeah, you can get there. Just by turning on MSNBC. That's how you get three. All right. So we are twenty one months away from getting rid of Donald Trump. But before we can do that we have to settle we have to settle on the democrat. That's gonna kick his house and not only do you need to pick someone who can win. We need to pick. Someone who's got a Palande to fix the broken shit in this country every candidate has a different priority for the good shit and every candidate has a different plan. Right. So two weeks ago, we did a quick and dirty rundown of the main candidates right now, we phone it in and we pissed some of you guys off, but we are going to do much more in depth coverage of each of the candidates as this year goes on and their priorities become clear. So we're gonna start right now. Elizabeth Warren who announced on Friday that she has a plan to break up big tech companies like Google, Amazon and Facebook, which is fucking Zing. Okay. How they're not already considered monopolies is absent. Bullshit bullshit. She took twenty dollars on abolish it. So basically her proposal would ban companies with twenty five billion dollars or more in annual revenue from owning both a platform and the companies that participate on the platform. So like Google would have to split it search engine from its adv business. She also said she would reverse mega-mergers like Facebook's owning what happened Instagram and Amazon murder Amazon and Amazon merging with whole foods and zap os and Google with ways. Okay. So she did her only TV interview about this new part of her campaign with Ari Melber on MSNBC. Now, we're gonna play a couple clips in this clip. She doesn't really explain it in detail. But you'll get the idea. Thank you. Delighted to be here, you criticize a lot of big banks today, you're talking about breaking up big tech. So here's the deal we need real competition in this field. And there's a problem so Amazon Google they own a platform, which is pretty cool right where everybody comes to buy and sell or do the searches and at the same time, they on a bunch of businesses that are competing with all those folks who are coming say to Amazon in order to sell their goods, and they don't just compete straight up. They compete by being able to keep all the information from every one of those companies, and then decide on going after you, and you, and I know how much charge, and I know what kind of to expect a little excuse me a little. Like being umpire in baseball. And owning a team might view shoe can do one an empire or the other owner team. But you don't have to do both at the same. Right. And you want to regulate so they don't just favor themselves. You dropped this plan today. This is your first big TV interview about it. Let's take a look at some of the reception today. Senator Elizabeth about tech companies for rolling out one of her big policy planks breaking up, Amazon, Google and other big tech. Giant's this is the toughest plan that we've seen to date from any of the democratic contenders for huge shakeup in the tech sector big. And it's bold, and it's going to be difficult to achieve could. She really force this kind of break-up could she really do. The answer's yes. But you know, let's be really clear about this. If you still want to be able to search for coffee pots and look at sixty three choices and get the one that's going to be there in forty eight hours. You can still do that as a consumer this preserves the platform if you still want to go on Google and find out the capital of North Dakota. You can totally do it. What this is about is about competition. It's about all those little businesses and start up businesses and entrepreneurs who wanna put their products on Amazon or on Google and who are an enormous competitive disadvantage because Amazon or Google if they like the money, they see that you're making because they get all the information. They decide to go into competition with you and put their product on page one. And yet oughta back on page six then kill your kill your business. I mean, she's at south by southwest, right? Now, which is like the tech the tech portion or Vilshoffen rule or seventy road be drunk and coming. So, you know, like like right now, it's she's gonna probably be coverage of hers gonna be on Bill she enroll so it's crazy that she's taking on these companies because they don't just have them -opoly on digital advertising and shopping and online socializing and shit. They have like she said a monopoly on the on information. They use their search engines and news feeds to control the information that we all use to make decisions. And if they decide that they don't want her message to reach people. They can silence her and raise the volume on the other candidates just like Russia did in two thousand sixteen. So that's why it's like so crazy that she's doing this and making this announcement this early. She's practically saying like a Hello silence. Me it's insane. It's so ballsy. It's so ballsy. I have to say that interview with her. I fell in love with her all over again in new way. And I was like, yes. Yes. Yes. See, yes. And she was firm and just what her knowledge is about that stuff in her explaining it. And the fact that she said, yeah, we can do it. We can totally do it. I was like voting for you. Yeah. And we'll play another clip in a little bit where he talks about like the kind of like risk. She's taking by doing this. And she so after this point in the interview, she went on she talked about this thing called the dead zone where venture capitalist won't go near startups that would compete with Amazon or Google or Facebook because they'll just die. So that right. There is already stifling innovation. We could be missing out on ideas that would change the whole world. But fuck book is ruining it, of course. Right. And they hurt other small businesses because they feature certain businesses. So like an Amazon, right. So if you go on Amazon, and she said you wanna look for a coffee pot. Well, Amazon is making products now, and they are. Their own distribution. But they look go. Oh, this is oh people are buying fidget. Spinners people are buying rare eggs, and then they make their own on what the volume they see going through Amazon right there. They have all the information. It's exactly like Google to who puts it's fucking restaurant like ratings and get your Google restaurant rating. Adami conveys I wanna see the yelp rating Google rating, right? And that's completely what they do. And then they grow grow and grow these hideous fucking mergers. Like China's on ruined wholefood God. And then they bought IMDB like why does Amazon own IMDB? Why are they in the movie business? I don't know. And what is it about? I am db. They wanna control trailers they want to control. What you I mean? Yeah. Because they're in the movie business now yet they want their actors to be the highest star meter their shows to have the highest rating. Yes, it's and then you know, because Mark. Fucker famously like went into by snapshot Snapchat, said no he offered them like a hundred gazillion dollars. They said, no, then he walked out of the room. And this is just a straight up. Fact, it's everywhere people will use it as like kit inspired don't take no answer think about when Mark Zuckerberg tried to buy Snapchat, and they turned him down. So he just went and turned Instagram into Snapchat. And that's what he did he stole all of their filters. And when he walked out of there, he said, I will ruin you because they wouldn't sell him their business. He's he told them he was going to ruin them. And he walked out and he ruined them. He took all their filters. You still all their ideas? He did all of the things you can do on Snapchat on Instagram and Snapchat was just like dwindling and dwindling and dwindling fucked them over so half of all ecommerce goes through Amazon half. That's why love Devon Rana sending the box. I'm like, yeah. Okay. You you turned off your Amazon like a hero substrate up hero and seventy. Percent of all the internet usage goes through sites owned and operated by Google or Facebook seventy percent is crews that means they own seventy percent of the internet. It's it's fucking insane. And let's not forget them all of our data. I know that's what's so gross. They've all our data, and they don't protect it. No. And they don't use it against us. They use it to sell the us to sell to other people all they're doing with our data is making money. They don't care if it's rubles, right? They don't give a fuck. Right. It's super tragic. So. These companies are so rich and powerful that they then use their power to shape policy in Washington. And basically, Elizabeth Warren, that's like her whole thing that was like the second part of this interview is about her like promised to end corruption in politics were one hundred percent here for it. And here's this clip where she's talking about that. Let's go to the way the treasury department is run because you look at it right now, a joy attention to a very simple illustration under Donald Trump. We could put up on the screen you have in the red zone there. Goldman Sachs as part of treasury department leadership. If you go back to in the Obama era, we checked in his, you know, you had Goldman Sachs executives running treasury, then go back to Bush also goldman-sachs go back to Bill Clinton. Also, Goldman Sachs and it warned administration. Would there be a former Goldman Sachs executive running the treasury department? Nope. Is that a? Edge. Yes, that's a litmus test -solutely. But let me tell you why the problem we've got right now is a revolving door between Wall Street and Washington that causes everybody to be on guests for wait a minute. The next time. This Treasury Secretary puts forward a proposal is it because it really helps the economy helps the American consumer helps the American homeowner or is it because it helps their former and possibly future employer of let's just do for one second the Gary Cohn exempt love, the Goldman Sachs, you were that's exactly right. So Trump appoints Gary Cohn, he leaves Goldman Sachs, and Gary Cohn is going to have exactly one job, and that is to ramrod through a rewrite of the tax laws that will profoundly affect Goldman Sachs. So what does Goldman Sachs do as Gary walks out the door? They have. End him nearly a quarter of a billion dollars to give it don't have to legal. I think I think of it as a pre bribe pre bra. Yes show, Gary then coach out and guess what? He does he writes attacks law and manages to help ramrod it through that benefits. Goldman Sachs to the tune of all according to the billion dollars in the first go round. And what is the gift that keeps on what you're saying makes sense, and we have such a ripe target. I think people could understand what you're saying. But what does it mean for the Democratic Party? If this was also how Obama and Clinton ran a treasury. Would you be a fundamental break with that? I guess is the question the problem. I have written the biggest anti corruption Bill since Watergate because we have a fundamental problem in Washington understand. It's a problem that predates Trump by decades. Trump may be the most extreme example. Now, the pre bribes of Gary. Cohn, for example. But we have a long standing problem, and that's the influence of money on decision making in Washington. So this Bill has lots of pieces to it, including closing the revolving door between Wall Street and Washington ending lobbying as we know it putting a real ethics cop on the beat saying that the heads of these agencies cannot be trading in dot. Doc, political matter are you basically writing off a bunch of Wall Street money. And then today, you're writing off a bunch of Silicon Valley money, maybe this about the money. This is about how it is kind of make this country work, again, not just for the rich and the powerful how we're gonna make it work for everyone. We live in America right now where Washington works great for giant drug companies. She doesn't even care that she's not going to get and you can't win. I mean, it's like if you don't have like super PACS in the new go like Zver example, Bernie Bernie four million dollars in one night. She's not getting that kind of money note. I mean, and I'm going to donate. And I know and we're gonna give we're definitely gonna give Bernie his time. We're gonna give Kamala Harris her time we're gonna give the real contenders. And when they come through with like, we thought this was very interesting. It was the first big it's a huge actual policy. Right. Like, the even like unlike the green new deal, it's like. Very specific. It's a Bill. Yeah. It's not an over far reaching, you know. And I read the plan I read the plan on the blog, which she it's it's going to be part of her campaign. And yeah, it's exactly it's like like any company. That's over is. What makes over twenty five billion? She's going to separate like we said she's going to bring a mile from the businesses. She's gonna she's going to go back on all those mergers. Yep. Those mergers aren't going to be allowed, and she's definitely going to appoint like she said. All these officers who are going to come in and monitor government officials that will come in and monitor these businesses in these in these companies in corporations, they're going to sit there and watch them. It's like a watchdog. I know that Republicans are going to like that because they're going to say that's big government and to get into our. But yeah, actually, well, you know, what it's time that somebody looked out for the middle class lower class any other class. Besides the Uber rich, and it's like these corporation with it or money to turn around and own Washington corporations our government, and it's right like beyond. We do have big government already in their corporation. So the Bill is called the anti-corruption and public integrity act that one not the raking of the tech companies. Since Democrats aren't the majority in the Senate. They moved the Bill to the house and supposedly they're supposed to vote on this week the house, they know that they're not we talked about this right after the House Democrats over the house. This is their first big Bill that they they know it's not going to pass the Senate Mitch McConnell won't even take it to the floor. But they feel like it makes a big statement on where the Democratic Party stand. Right. And and we're the house Dan's really, too, but it's about lobbying special interest has of government agencies. Owning stock in companies they legislate campaign finance voting rights, presidential and vice presidential tax returns. I mean like, Tom Price. Oh god. Exactly. Insider trading. You can't be you cannot be working for the department of health and then having trading stocks when pharmacies. Yeah, he's like he bought all these shares in a company and then the next week like pass legislation that directly. I company right? The corruption is staggering. Yes. It's staggering. It's rampant. It's it's a sounding. It's miraculous. It's unbelievable. And Elizabeth Warren is wants to stop it. And maybe it's all in the sky. There's gotta be a step in the I want to know who ever I vote for is going to be like this is going to be important to she's also been doing this for thirty plus years. And I think that she was going to write a policy that she knows that she that can actually happen. You know what I mean? Yeah. Which feels good even though the Republicans will block it and won't let it happen or whatever. However, it's going to go down. I know that she can she has a plan and the plan can be enacted. It's not just if we do if it's this plan is the direction that we it's gonna work. There's already antitrust laws like, you know, we're gonna have like AT and T fuck and FOX Amazon. It's like Time Warner though, those already humongous merger, right? And they've already. Had to break up some of these because because monopolies are legal. So I mean, it's a matter of just these things being classified as monopolies. Right. Even like Lindsey Graham asked Mark Zuckerberg, like don't you feel like you don't feel like they are monopolies they are. And so I think whoever gets in there needs to take it on at least just that. If if nothing else. Well, I we encourage people to go on and watch this interview. It's you can just Google it. Go to YouTube, Elizabeth Warren, Ari Melber, so good. And it's like twenty two minutes long. Now, it's time for so there's that. Okay. So this is the part of the show or Julius to find something positive. That's happening. Amongst all the shitty ass shit that goes on every single minute. She's on it every week for two fucking years. And it doesn't really seem to be getting any easier. But every week that goes by brings us a little closer to the end of Trump. So at least there's that. Tell us. What is your? So there's that moment. I had the hardest time really because you've got it done early. This was a hard one. It might be a little discombobulated. You know what I mean? But it's just going to be all over the place. It might be a little this episode. I'm wondering if you can't help. Okay. You know what I mean get it a little contain? I had to I did have all sorts of moving parts, and then I had to let some of it go. But whatever. Now, I it is hard. It's so hard. I'm so sick of immigration and Mitch McConnell and Trump and investigations in Russia, collusion and done junior and men. Just a never ending tidal wave of dark matter and Jisr, and I just cannot fucking take it. Now what I didn't realize. However, no, offense, gentlemen listening. What I didn't even realize whoever is that this week was International Women's Day. And it just came and went, so I am horrible. I love I don't. I'm just the worst. The worst those kinds of things are dumb their social media fucking trope. That's all they're there for well. So looking around looking around like she used did. But then I stumble across this. VH1. trailblazer thing online, and it's like two ablazing women. And I'm looking at these things in these speeches, and I'm like, oh, these this is so thirst Bucky. But then what did I see? I'm looking. What its share share right now will click on it. First of all share is an American shrimp. So that share? Have I'm pretty sure she's a vampire and the Queen of the immortal. The bitch doesn't age she is scenario, and the voice her voice. And as I got deeper into it. I have to be honest. I was pretty moved. I was pretty moved. Once I went into this whole of what I saw now before we get to that though, the the women's stories, whatever whatever and it's corn. It's cheese flakes pretension, self righteousness. It's child actors, but whatever, but share share share share share share. And what is shared doing share is? Introducing Nancy Pelosi shit. Okay. Other American treasure. I was like share Nancy Pelosi. This is it. I don't know where it's going to go. But I know that this is it. So I click on share gonna play for you. Both clips. Okay, okay, speaker. And I've relisting million times. I wanted to be here tonight with my hero her heroes. Nancy Pelosi car news a lot these days. People like me. Oh, but as far as I'm icon is the woman being honored here tonight. She's right L. She does thing all phoning Faulders signed the declaration of independence. Our country has been run almost exclusively by white men, thankfully because of their shave. This is changing. He's a fighter. She's an show. Blonde wig muscle took him like yearly and in two thousand eight one bring all told her one with a bully and beat him in his own game. Like mom now. What I see Trump spew hatred and tell his bazillion lies, I get pissed off. But I also feel really uneasy then I see Nancy come on TV. And I think it's all good Nancy's in the house literally in the house. Nancy has dedicated her career to being a fierce advocate for the underdog for women for the LGBTQ community and for the poor. She's the highest ranking woman ever in American politics, and because of her and other strong women like her soon, they'll be a woman president. Includes she's elegant and formidable, and when I grow up, I wanna be just like her Nancy's like I'm younger than you share. She's elegant formidable. So Nancy Pelosi comes out she gives her like an award, and then Nance Pelos gives her speech. So now, I'm gonna play that let me get some Nancy Pelosi. Ward trail blazer Dada of rock share. You to make the world better place. To privilege to people each and everyone of you tonight, and to share this honour with three extraordinary trailblazers eighty three that would Toronto Burke and Eva diverting night. And also, congratulations to our everyday tale. Bazars the mayor Asia Brown, peppermint. Do. Thank you. What do to empower women and inspire progress in our country your work gives tooth to the words when women succeed America succeeds. Tell you break International Women's Day. We celebrate a special milestone for America the election of more than one hundred women to the United States Congress. Biting delivered pry for women and for all Americans. These women are fighting to secure paycheck fairness because every person deserves equal pay for April. She doesn't with her hands. Ping or right to choose every single day. Fighting to end the splurge of sexual harassment and assault on women in our country. Because there is no issue that is not a women's issue. With fighting to pass the quality of because we want to end discrimination against the LGBTQ community. Every thing you Nancy. Thank you. Thank you. Everyone to be trailblazers together to advance more informed more inclusive fair future for America's future. And for all Americans. Thank you off your rate for your perseverance your persistence, your leadership to advance quality and fight injustice, and thank you for being trailblazers and for making a difference. So I will display this honor this trailblazer honor with great pride in the capital of the United States. That's right. Where she's the highest ranking woman. The fact that she wore I just can't get over. I just have to throw this the fact that she rolled out there in a straight up almost like a summer. It's like a sprinter. It's it's a it's a darker blue. But it's lacy and it's short sleeve, and you've got share standing behind her looking like Leah black and a full blonde wig. And I'm like share is covered up so much. She could almost be in a black Spiderman that is a level. It is mech the just under the chin the very low longer than the wrist almost covering the whole hands like vampiric. Yes sucks. Oh, she will not let a thing. That's not snatched to be on display. Here comes old eighty three year old Nance armload arms out arms. Eighty-three-year-old arms. Looking good to any. This looks great. Like, it's what an eighty three year old arm. Looks like it we should not. And guess what? It did have a tan in about. It did have a tan, and it was fit and she looks great and. There is nothing wrong. And she should be proud and she's out trail-blazing bugging eighty-three-year-old. That's out there. Right. She should. And I'm never gonna stop singing ANSI Pelosi's praises, and since it was International Women's Day. We want to reiterate what Nance said, which is one hundred women were elected to office and not only is your speech about fighting for equality, but her speech is actually in reality. She talked about the equality act. Well, here's what the equality act is the equality act provide consistent explicit nondiscrimination protections for LGBTQ people across key areas of life, including employment, housing credit education public spaces and services federally funded programs and jury service the equality act would amend existing civil rights law, including the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four the fair housing act the equal credit Opportunity Act. The jury selection and services act and several laws regarding employment with the federal government to explicitly include sexual orientation and gender identity as protected characteristics, the legislation also amends the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty. Four to prohibit discrimination in public spaces Grenache. Verve. Verve. Federally federally funded programs on the basis of sex. Additionally, the equality act would update the public spaces and services covered in current law to include retail stores services such as banks legal services and transportation services. These important updates would strengthen existing protections for everyone in two thousand fifteen the equality act had the support of three major companies so the equality act as it is now is a Reince their re. Issuing it. They're trying to reinvent it. The equality act had the sport of three major companies. Apple DOW Chemical company in Levi Strauss next week when they bring it to the flaw. The Bill will have the support of one hundred and sixty one companies the Bill is broad bipartisan support. But of course, will remain to be seen what Mitch McConnell will do. But until then let's sit safe and pretty knowing Nancy Pelosi has our backs, and yes, it's a scary time. But it's also an exciting and sexy time with eighty three year old arms. So let's look ahead. And remember we've got glamour, we've got humour and we've got share. So there's that. So that's it for this episode of dumb gay politics. We love you guys so much. Thank you for listening. Please, please. Please sign up for our patriotic podcast of you haven't yet. I can't beg you hard enough. We met a lot of people in Austin who don't even listen to this podcast. They only listen to the patriae. Right. That's right. That is true that that's how important it is for our lives and wellbeing. Yeah. So go to WWW dot patriots dot com slash dumb, gay politics. And you can listen to two free ones to see if you like it. It's super easy. You can download the patriot on app and listen through that or you can get the R S feed and put it in your regular podcast player. Something like that. That's what I have in my podcast player. I can listen to the patriot on podcast and our regular put it into itunes. Yeah. Goes right itunes, either way, it's super easy, and you got those. No there can't be an excuse of. Why don't you do it? 'cause I like if I was. If I was listening to a podcast, I thought to myself, and they were like silent for patriot or they were like sign up for dishonesty or new disowning gas. And I'd be like I'm not gonna what do I have to go to register on this thing right do password. And then the that podcast is going to be over there on that website. But you can put first of all my mom does it so can't be that hard. But you get the app or but you can put it into Jones in probably not Spotify. I don't know. Maybe you can you can put it into. But I know 'cause right box or whatever you use. Yeah. You can that go. We'll go right in becomes right into your up so super easy. And as always it's real, and it's been fun mostly it's been gay, and and Pelosi's arms. Kadewe? Maps mine. Hemmed in. Jumped up little, bro. Because when you knocked she's. Whether ken. Don't get. So now. By the way. To judge a book by its. Much of a man, but a lot of day one. Justice. Transsexual. Let me so you arrive. Play with site. Black. One something physio. To this. We could take an oath Steve Reeves move. I'm. We could we use your phone. Both in a bit of a hurting. Right. We'll just say where we are then go back to the car. We don't want to be any worry. Where are you could with a flat world about them? Well, babies don't choose Tenet. The long civil. To mccain. Justice. Sexual. She stay for the night. Maybe a. I could show you my favorite obsession. I've been making a man. Blonde hair and tanned. He's good at the relieving. Tensions Justice trends list. From train sexual thing. Stuff. Sucks. So come up to the left and see what's on the slayer. I see you civic with an -ticipant. But maybe the right is really to so remove the cause. But not the symptom. Hey, guys, what's up? My name is Kaelin. And I am the host of what I like to call coffee talks, and what the coffee talk podcasts are pretty much. Just exactly that. If we were sitting physically based base having a chat over coffee, the types of things that we would talk about coffee shop podcasts go up every single Monday to start your week off. Right. And we cover everything from adulting to mental health to all the nitty gritty in between including gossip girl references and food related. You know, really thinks so whether you need a podcast to start you off on the right foot in the morning or to wind down with your decaf at the end of the day. I highly suggest you make your way on over and join the coffee talk crew because I mean, there's a space space for all of us here and the coffee is unlimited and free pouring. Let's chat all things life coffee and everything in between. Hello. It's me. Rachel evans. Do you? Remember me because I remember you and I love you. And I'm glad to see you. Guess what y'all Dirk five is back, and we're doing a podcast, and I implore you to subscribe, if you like serial killers if you like ghosts if you like ectoplasms if you like cryptos if you like spooky Dookie and also maybe some blood stuff and maybe some chaos magic, maybe some Satan. Oh, why mix I come subscribe? And get grossed out with me, Chris myself out love it. We'll see you on the internet.

President Trump Amazon Russia Google Paul Manafort Trump virginia Facebook Instagram Bill Browder Elizabeth Warren America White House Austin DC Devin Nunes Megan MSNBC
4. The Man in the Cage

The Big Steal

20:21 min | 8 months ago

4. The Man in the Cage

"This is the story of the biggest theft in history. The big steel of the resources of the biggest country in the world Russia. By its own government Kremlin. Click THE RUNS. The country like his own personal bank at of bandits. It's also the story of how Russia is using every part of its state machinery and a war. Many of his don't even realize his taking place to subvert. Democracy worldwide in episode four of Vladimir Putin lays down his mark. One by one by one is darks went to Putin and said Vladimir. What do we have to do? So we don't have it in a cage is real simple fifty percent. I'm governor slur and in the big steel telling the extraordinary story of how in one generation Russia went from communism to kleptocracy at its heart high. The Russian government stole the country's biggest oil company you cost from its shareholders and put his helm in jail for ten years. The cough ski sentenced to nine years in prison for fraud into exhibition. It's a conviction that raised eyebrows throughout much of the West because quarter Kofsky had been a longtime political rival of President Putin the principal beneficiary of the big steel is Russia's President Vladimir Putin and his behavior is ruthless. If we look at the spate of assassinations this problem with violence. We begin episode four with an extraordinary scene. It's June two thousand four eight months. Since Mikhail Khordokovsky Russia's richest man and the brains behind it star performing oil company. Yukos was arrested at gunpoint in his private jet in Siberia. He's traded his luxury home for a cage in Moscow. Courtroom Kofsky was I. The authorities wanted him as a witness in a criminal investigation once in Moscow. He finds he himself is being charged with fraud and tax evasion. Then he's put in front of television cameras in a cage in a Moscow courtroom like a scene from a show trial of the Stalin era in the nineteen thirties. -demia Cottam Mussa is a Russian opposition politician and democracy activist author and filmmaker he recalls clearly the dramatic arrest of Quantum Kofsky. So the Kennedy moment from any of us. Everybody remembers whether where when when the news of Holocaust Skis. Arrest came in because it was something something from another world here. He was the richest man in Russia. The most successful Russian businessman Who you know for many people was becoming the symbol of what it was possible to be. And you know how business could be cleaner and more transparent and more modern and more European In Russia this person being arrested in such a brazen way in anti-doping raid by the F. B. on explain in Novosibirsk and this was this is intended as a message and it wasn't message and it was certainly heated by the rest of Russia's business community that has made sure to stay well out of politics and and even of Civil Society Works Stand Offs Key Business Partner Plante on Lebedev had already been arrested on similar charges of financial wrongdoing. Mikhail could have escaped but last episode. He told me how he weighed up his chances of being visited by the authorities. Unless she puts on the Ritz Percents Ishmael. Which so I thought that there was a seventy thirty percentage of me ending in prison seventy percent that I would be behind bars but thirty percent attack could still win that game. That proportion changed as time went on with 'em creeping towards towbar. Unfortunately in the wrong direction there are always two parts to a show trial. The less important part is the trial. The verdict is hardly a cliffhanger is going to be guilty more importantly however there's the show. Tv pictures of Kofsky was seen all over Russia and all over the world. One interested viewer was an American born businessman bill browder. He had enormous and for a time. Highly profitable investments in Russia as bill pointed out to me keeping prisoner in a cage with standard behavior in Russia. But what was unusual. Was that deliberate attempt to ensure the entire world could witness the humiliation so order. Kaczynski gets arrested in October of two thousand and three they arrest him off his private jet which was sitting on the runway in Siberia. They bring them back to Moscow and they put him on trial for tax evasion. And when you get when you're in a criminal case when you're a defendant in criminal case in Russia there is a ninety nine point eight percent conviction rate. And so there is no presumption of innocence of a defendant. And as part of that whole no presumption of innocence they put the defendant's cage them. Just because that's where you're gonNA end up afterwards. And so then they put Mikhail Khodorkovsky the richest most powerful smartest oligarch in Russia in a cage and then allow the television cameras to come in and film him sitting in a cage. Now imagine that you're the seventeenth richest oligarch. You're in the south of France on your yacht parked off the hotel. Do Cop an antique vibe You've just finished up in the bedroom with your mistress you walk out to the living room you flick on CNN and there you see a guy for richer far smarter far more powerful than you sitting in a cage with your natural reaction going to be you. Don't want to sit in that cage yourself and so one by one by one. These guys is all the guards in the summer of two thousand and four went to Putin Vladimir. What do we have to do? So we don't have to sit in the cage is that it's real simple. Fifty percent fifty percent for the Russian government or fifty percent for the presidential administration of Russia fifty percent of of Ladimir Putin. At that moment in time Putin became the richest man in the world and the number one oligarchy in Russia claims of tax evasion and financial crimes have become a useful tool for President Putin to remove inconvenient potential rivals. It happened with Coda. Kofsky happened to his associates. And it's happening right now to the political party of opposition leader Alexander Novelli and there's the obvious irony that powerful figures in the Kremlin who have their own hands in the till are using charges of financial crimes to silence their opponents. Russia expert and design told me of just one deal in which Putin himself allegedly made two hundred million dollars former deputy finance under bubby ahead the Board C of the Northern Oil for seven million dollars in two years later he sold it to Rosneft for six hundred million dollars I all stubby love about it undesirable. I developed a company very beautifully which I of course it not quite By and I also had a cough skin said about A their information was it had been a bride of two hundred million dollars. That bobby had paid to the management all the Gulf snapped by management Kofsky BANDMATE GEAR. Bogdanovich who was the CEO and Sachin reportings right-hand assistance. Who did not have a former position at the time later it became chairman and the CEO. The he effectively controlled toss net dot when he started talking about his case he realized that clearly some of them are is two hundred million dollars had gone to Putin himself and putting Dan Turner furious. So I think this is a wonderful ministration about a potent really functions. He was in on the he benefitted personally and then. Kanter to Porsche. Kodakov ski and so there were plenty of reasons why Vladimir Putin might want to Kofsky in a cage I told Mikhail what the American businessman Bill. Browder a told me you know what Bill Browder told us we in deep red few days ago and he said you were put in a cage so that every other wealthy person in Russia would look and say that cloths ski. He's got more money than me smarter than me. Look what happened to him on? Better find out from Putin I need to do not to end up in a cage. Do you think bill browder that about right. The Ish Doku yes I do. Think the Yukos case. The first case broke a lot of really kind of broke out people in Russian loosely. Just people a kind of boot did a lot of damage in Russia. I think a lot of people suddenly realized that courts would not be on their side that they cannot find protection in the courts behalf. Set had been the case before but this was the first republican covered by the media. Case like that on TV and the judiciary understood very well during the process then they also have to make the right decision dictated by government to them otherwise they would be broken as well. Russian court cases tend not to have happy endings Makovsky and his colleague Plateau Lebedev were sentenced to eleven years penal colonies. Imagine going from a humble background to becoming a billionaire and then finding yourself sentenced two years in the Russian prison system the Torius for the Soviet era gulags in human cruelty violence and disease. Can I ask you about about prison? I mean you know the idea of a Russian jails through Russian literature through anything and people in the west to read about. It sounds like a horrific time. You'RE YOU'RE FIT guy out battles it. But as he's Today's Jalen. Russia is Not Gulag. We had in the past okay. It wasn't as bad as it gulag but it wasn't a law Thaad. Was it more beautiful new store. Well you should understand your average prisoner. Yovich prisoner is at such a low level in prison that he doesn't even understand who he's dealing weaves overseas kitchen me at the Russian should I? He sees somebody much older than him. And this is important in jail. An average age in the type of prison I occupied was twenty three and I was forty and that was a significant difference. He led the spoke win which religion swims then. They see an educated person who can actually help or explain things. They don't understand themselves and then they also testy your inner strength. Shen break the move film at machine use me. Are you going to escape it? I going to be nervous or are you calm and collected and with the collectedness of yours can actually help others. I've always had very strong nerves. And perhaps I should thank my parents for this way. I really did was able to help those people. I share the celery when hysterical. And there's no one coming to their rescue. You're always look at the person can help. In fact my relations with the people I should sell with quite foreign okay. Good momentum and sometime I found myself in the syllabus twelve thirteen other prison cement and I found that my friend bottle navy found himself in punishment and man managing Russia's prisons Mr Kellyanne said publicly said that Mr Neville is not going to leave that cell ever and I knew that that was health and he would just die in that sense yet so I started a dry hunger-strike so that knew that I could only lost about ten days. Hunger strike means about your water. Thome which is that sentence or they didn't really quite believe me so at one point decided to test me on the fifth day of my hunger strike very easy they take your blood pressure wristed. What's tw two hundred and twenty two hundred and twenty glue squish as the last to coagulate and it's much harder for the heart to trumpeting the veins because he gets embassies. This is why most people don't live beyond ten days. They just die. Bush chew more but they work a scene that they asked the rest of the cell the twelfth business to sign the documents saying that in fact Arnold really dry hunger strike that I am drinking water. the Konakov ski case was and still is a sensation in Russia and among Russians in exile Gary Kasparov is a world renowned Russian chess grandmaster and former world champion now a political activist. He's chairman of the Human Rights Foundation based in New York putinite instill destroying all institutions. That could play also checks and balances and anything that could even remotely straighten. His power was doomed to end and a chopping block of KGB machine and one of the turning points was of course two thousand three the successful attack on Yukos largest success washing company in the wild Putin propaganda succeeded in Russia and partially in the West telling that it was a tackle only guards and it was about corruption about taxes. Look the reality was was the opposite as was happens was detoro regime so whether or go skill was that he wanted to pay taxes but the pay taxes to Russian state treasury not to leave in the world of graphs and bribes and corruption and he wanted to integrate us into the global industrial financial system and to make multinational corporation that was so much against interest of Putin and other only goes through all the girls who wanted to keep things as as the war and and they could feel that with oil prices rising rapidly they will do much better without any transparency without any integration A real integration into the Well financial economical and eventually pro political system. The way puts us all the integrated was quite different buying soccer collapse building a network of agents and lobbyists and again let's give them credit succeeded for his part and Ashland sees the Khordokovsky cases extraordinary but not unique. It was told me. Part of a well-thought. I'd Putin plan to take them his perceived enemies one by one and along the way help himself and his cronies to most of their money whom India tax levy miracle since the outstanding in need the only produced the best television ranger and the newspapers in Russia. How he went and the recent that were putting put forward if that they were feeling financially. Next B- Boris Berezovsky beyond the big medial oligarch. Because he had taken control Hoover Tiba big a state television channel liberal new forty nine percent Over shares out of scare was forced. Who COMES NEXT Khordokovsky? Because he was the most successful businessmen and what Putin did very successful in each case he took one person at a time and he never claimed that this was because he wanted political control. Oh No it was always one financial problem or whatever that made it necessary for fourteen authorities to intervene and not only back through our a case. Putin claimed that the post would not be forced into bankruptcy which is of course moss and Reporting the investors were so gullible. Buffet believed Putin is so until the end of two thousand four more than one year after he had been arrested. The stock price of a joke on the New York Stock Exchange held up and then in the end American investors alone probably lost twelve billion dollars on the collapse. Despite Mikhail Khordokovsky brave words to me that is jail was not as bad as the gulags of the past. It's difficult to imagine what it must be like to spend years in a Russian prison especially for crying which you did not commit and when you also know at least thirty of your Yukon employees and colleagues are also been jailed on trumped up charges in the next episode of the big steel. We'll hear about those others. Some who died some killed by neglect some still behind bars of all the victims of the Yukos case of everyone. Who has you know gone through this ordeal that the Putin regime began in two thousand three? You know there's no fate more tragic than that of us. Alexina young successful professional. Who was I mean? Let's go thanks for they are was basically killed by the Putin government who lost his life to the Yukos case. And we'll hear that you costs might be the biggest steal of all but it's not been the last. The American born investor Bill Browder was on the Putin and Kleptocrats list for special attention but browder managed to fight back. The police working together with corrupt officials and organized. Criminals orchestrated highly complex. Corporate identity theft. Where they stole the corporate entities through which we had invested in Russia is a question in my mind that he is a total and absolute criminal and he's made more money from his crimes than any other criminal in history of crime. The big steel was presented by me governor. Slow and produced by Martin Points Roberts at fresh air production. Please make sure you subscribe to the series. So you don't miss an episode.

Russia President Putin bill browder Putin Vladimir Russia Russian government Mikhail Khordokovsky Russia Moscow Mikhail Khodorkovsky Kofsky fraud Yukos Mikhail Russia Kofsky Siberia theft cough
Could The Fed Get Bitcoin Banned?

Stansberry Investor Hour

00:00 sec | 5 months ago

Could The Fed Get Bitcoin Banned?

"Broadcasting from the investor our studios and all around the world. You're listening to the stands berry investor our to each Thursday on itunes. Google play and everywhere you find podcasts. For the latest episodes of the stands Berry investor our sign up for the free show archive at investor our DOT COM. Here's your host Dan Ferris. Hello and welcome to the stands. Vary investor our. I'm your host Dan Ferris. I'm also the editor of extreme value published by stands Berry Research Today. We'll talk with investor. Chris McIntosh you may know him from the capitalist exploits website. He has tons of experience in money management venture capital. He's built several million dollar businesses. He has a lot to say about all that and more stick around in the mail bag to clouds part on bill browder as some listeners chime in with positive comments plus listeners. Brian G and we'll see are worried. The federal government is going to mess with their gold and their bitcoin. And as always my rant this week I have a little bit to say about two totally different topics including more follow up when the browder controversy that started when we interviewed him in episode one fifty three. Then I'll tell you about my brand new research project and how it will affect your portfolio for the next five or ten years that and more right now on the stands berry investor our. Okay let's just talk for a few minutes about this browder thing. One More Time we interviewed Bill Browder and episode one fifty three. He told it incredible story. I won't go through it again. Just listening episode one fifty three. It's incredible then. We got lots of pushback in the mail bag last week. From a bunch of people who said Oh routers a fraud he's a liar etcetera cetera. And then after that browder had listened to our episode he said. Hey I heard a lot of people said bad things about me. I've got some other evidence here that you may wish to look at. I didn't contact him. He heard about what we said and sent me a few things that one of those things was a presentation he did. The basically you know there's a whole bunch of things in this film called the Magnitsky Act that people think puts the lie to everything. Bill Browder said right and he sent me a presentation that basically it goes point by point. I'M NOT GONNA go through every single point but I will tell you that some of the points that were made in the film that he says we're false and defamatory. They said that. Sergei magnitsky lawyer who was killed in jail the film said Magnitsky was not beaten up in custody browder got tons of evidence that he was the film also said Magnitsky was not a lawyer. He was an accountant. Well there's a article in the Moscow Times by Jameson firestone who was skis boss at the law firm of Firestone. Dunkin so you know. He worked for a law firm. We know that. And there's numerous court documents that say he represented the plaintiff here and there and everywhere just a bunch of times in rushing court and he goes through all of those points and just kind of blows them away in fact. This filmmaker Andrei and across off. He kind of changed his tune. He was like a radical but then he in round two thousand fourteen. It looks like he's been working for the Russian government you know saying favorable things about Ladimir Putin whether they're true or not and there's one point in Jamison firestone's article in the Moscow Times that I want to show you because it sounds funny in in the movie magnitsky. Act Okay. The filmmaker crossover he's interviewing magnitsky's mother. The mother of the guy who was murdered in jail by the Russians. Okay and she says something that clearly means. It's very difficult for me to accept the fact that Sarah girl was beaten before he died. Meaning I'm his mother and I. It's just painful for me to have to accept this but the filmmaker across off who is fluent in Russian and English as firestone says in his article he diss genuinely translate this to mean that it was difficult for her to accept that he was beaten. It was difficult for her to believe it. She believes that just fight. Everybody believes that everybody knows he was beaten. But this guy as soon as you see that he's twisting words around like this of the people he interviewed you're like Geez but by all means rebe routers book read notice. See the film the Magnitsky Act and I'll see if we can put some of these links up to some of the articles that browder showed us that suggested that the magnitsky act film is kind of a hatchet job backed by the Russian government. Okay so that's that I want to move onto another topic okay. I just started with a little research project which I think my turn into a big one. What I'm doing is I just WANNA look for mostly anecdotal type evidence that the period of nineteen twenty nine through just say nineteen forty five may bear some similarities. To what we are going through. You know starting maybe with the two thousand eight financial crisis and ending who knows another ten years from now possibly ending in a war. So what I'm doing is I'm just reading accounts of that time by various various writers and one of those accounts which is really good so far and I'm hardly into it. There is a writer named Frederick Lewis Allen and he wrote two books one is called only yesterday that's about the nineteen twenties thinking published it in nineteen thirty one and the other one is called since yesterday which covers the period from September third nineteen twenty nine to September third nineteen thirty nine and those due dates are instructive because September. Twenty nine is the peak of the twenty nine market before it crashed. September third thirty nine is the day. Britain and France declared war on Germany. So it kind of book ends that period nicely and I'll just read you a few quotes. I mean the parallels when you go into a thing like this what you've done. I've set myself up for confirmation bias right. I've set myself up to possibly not be totally objective. Because I know what I'm looking for and I want to find that but I have to tell you already just reading from a couple of books from this and a couple of other books the parallels jump off the page is you don't have to look for him. They'll find you if you read anything about this period. So just a couple of quotes here from Frederick Lewis Allen since yesterday he says the holders manipulators of securities are the chief beneficiaries of this last speculative phase of the coolidge hoover prosperity and quote. That sounds familiar. Right another quote. He says quote you will hear that this is a new era that the future of the blue ribbon stocks is dazzling that George F Baker. Never sells anything that you can't go far wrong if you are a bull on. America end quote and who does that sound like George? F Baker was was a big banker and and millionaire. He was a third richest guy in the country when he died in nineteen. Thirty one after a Ford Rockefeller. He made his money after the civil war and railroads and banks and by the twenties and Thirties early thirties. Everybody's listening to him because he was rich famous investor but it sounds just like buffet right buffet. Favourite holding period is forever. He doesn't want to sell anything right. And also but what is above say well? You can't go wrong you know you. You shouldn't bet against America's how buffet puts it. You can't go far wrong. If you're a bull in America's how Allen relates it here so the idea that there's this big famous investor touting America this guy who never sells anything right at what may be the top of the market of what may be You know the beginning of a very difficult period just screamed off the page at me and there are other smaller concerns while big concerns but just in the overall sweep history like at that time there were concerns over quote. The displacement of men by machines the turnover of men was industries and the shifting of men from industry to industry are making men less secure in their jobs and especially are making it harder for men passed the prime of life to get back into new jobs once they are displaced end quote. That sounds a little familiar. Doesn't it there was a lot of talk about tariffs back then course the SMOOT Hawley tariff by some writers get some of the credit for causing the Great Depression. Alcohol prohibition was according to Allen. The Guy who wrote these books. I told you about the hottest topic in America. He says the hottest in America. Well what's one of the hotter topics of our time is the legalization of marijuana and by Association? Also you know drug prohibition and also what's another huge hot topic the so-called Lloyd crisis so similar topics and you could say well Dan. These are things that people are concerned about all the time. Not just in these periods. Sure of course. Admittedly these are things. Americans are concerned about but they really came to the fore during this period of crisis and during our period of crisis they are really becoming a lot louder and more important. Here's another thing. A quote from Allen's book quote the collapse and investment values had undermined the credit system of the country at innumerable points and dangerous loans and mortgages and corporate structures which only a few weeks previously had seemed as safe as bedrock and quote. Do I even need to tell you the huge parallel of today lots of people going bankrupt? Jc Penney J. Crew Lord and Taylor One. Just one after another right is in bankruptcy these days. And we're also going to see some bankruptcies in the oil patch right because oil went to negative forty bucks and is still a lot cheaper than it was before the start of this thing started the year at like sixty something and. I think we're still below thirty. We're right around thirty here. Maybe the Republican President Herbert Hoover back back in the day quote suffering from his inability to charm and control Washington. Correspondence was getting a bad press and quote well our president. He's not trying to charm anybody because he stands at the press conference point straight at the reporter says fake news. Your fake news your fake news. So it's a little different but there is a similarity and now I wanna get into something a little more substantial okay now in this book. Here by Frederick Lewis Allen called since yesterday he points to six big changes that he says took place in the late nineteenth early twentieth century. And I think you'll find some parallels in in recent history here. The first one is the rapid progress of the industrial revolution. He says transformed large numbers of people from economic agents into job holders made them increasingly dependent upon the successful working of an increasingly complex economy and the parallel simply that globalization has made the entire global economy more susceptible to systemic risks more susceptible to troubles in this part of the world causing troubles in part of the world right. A problem in the United States becomes a problem in Europe and a problem in China becomes a problem in the United States etc etc. You get it right number. Two huge increase in population. I'm not sure that's huge deal for us today. Number three expansion of peoples of the Western world into vacant and less civilized parts of the earth with the British Empire setting the pattern of imperialism. The United States setting the pattern of domestic pioneering so. I'm not sure really. What the parallel is there? I mean the world's a smaller place than ever in you can live just about anywhere you want to number four. The opening up and using up the natural resources of the World Coal Oil metals etc at an unprecedented rate not indefinitely continual. This echoes a lot of sentiment from the current era. Apparently when Americans get really prosperous they start worrying about using up all the natural resources number five rapid improvement in communication which in effect made the world a much smaller place the various parts of which were far more dependent on one another than before and of course what has been our revolution and communication in the late. Nineteenth early twentieth century. The Internet has made a much smaller place than before. And I don't know if I would say. The Internet makes us all more susceptible to systemic financial risks globally. But it certainly connects us and facilitates that connection. It's part of that connection number six new corporate and financial devices invented and put into practice. I mean what was one of the primary factors in the two thousand eight crisis? Well these things called CDO's collateralized debt obligations which were just sliced and diced bundles of mortgages. That were rated triple A. And they weren't anything like triple A. In the end they were a lot poor credit quality than anyone thought so. There's a lot of parallels I I think they jump off the page at you. Okay so what does this mean for us. Well it may mean that. We're headed into a period of great difficulty. Are we going to see another Great Depression? You probably won't hear me saying that history rhymes. It doesn't repeat so I think it's just necessary to look ahead. And you wind up wanting to hold three assets in a substantial greater quantity than you would otherwise I think and those assets are cash precious metals in Bitcoin. I talked about Bitcoin last week. And I've talked about cash and gold before right cash takes care of you when the world is liquidating everything including gold and gold stocks caches. What you want to have cash is like oxygen. Nobody ever thinks about it until the running out of it and you need to think about it before that. I'm currently around twenty five or thirty percent in cash depending on how I measure it and that's to me that's a lot of cash. Twenty percent or more of your portfolio. Cash is a lot I think. Fifty percent or so is probably too much so plenty a goal plenty of cash and some bitcoin in addition to buying great businesses. We're doing that. I'm recommending stocks extreme value. We're finding long ideas. Don't get me wrong here. This is about asset allocations about having a good portfolio. Not Selling everything in running for the hills. Because it's all this stuff. If it happens if we do get difficult five or ten years you know you. WanNa be prepared for it. You can't predict it. You can only prepare and also one of the things that I can't help thinking about is William Strauss and Neil House book the fourth turning. So they've got this whole generational theory of history where we go through these periods that are one generation long. You know maybe eighteen twenty twenty five years long and they date the periods by events you know and there are four of them every so often they call them the turnings the first turning in the second and third and the fourth and the fourth turning is the crisis period the last four turning was nine hundred twenty nine to nineteen forty five. Okay big deal day. Say I believe they say the fourth turning started this time around in two thousand eight. Were in the middle of it now. Does it end with a war. The way the previous one did I don't know but I know China's making a lot of noises and they're making a lot. They've been making a lot of noises in the South China Sea. And there's this idea called to cities trap that suggests that when there's a world power and an up and coming possibly new world power. They're gonNA fight throughout history. That has happened that you know you've seen it again and again and they've always fought. There's a book about it that I have not read yet so I don't WanNa talk about it but I know about the city's trap because the city's was writing like a couple thousand years ago. So maybe we do end with some kind of a war. What would war look like in the twenty first century? When we've got you know cyber warfare and biological warfare who knows it will look like it did in World War Two. That's we can be pretty assured of that but who knows what it looks like as if it even happens so I think I think you allocate differently probably starting about now and probably for the next five or ten years and and you know when does this period this fourth turning if Strauss and Howard correct. When does it end? Well you know maybe somewhere around. Twenty twenty five twenty twenty-eight maybe later maybe sooner I don't know I'm not saying I'd buy their theory wholeheartedly. But they they make a pretty good case if you read the book so that's where I am on this. I'm just starting to look into this stuff the parallels are leaping off the page. I think there are real hard and fast implications for where you put your money starting right now. That's all I have to say about that right. Now let's talk with Chris McIntosh. Hi Paul here today. I have an urgent message for every American. Who's retired or thinking about retiring soon. You see our own governments disastrous policies. Have now put you me and everyone over the age of fifty at great risk sometime in the near future. We're going to have yet another financial crisis. This one won't be saw with bailouts and it will hit seniors the hardest. I fear there will be civil unrest a drop in stock prices pension fund collapses big changes to Social Security and Medicare the erosion of personal liberties bank and brokerage closings and ultimately a major crisis as a US dollar is rejected for almost any non-paper alternative. Don't let this happen to your retirement. Dr Ron Paul strongly believes when the next crisis hits there'll be no warning and the government won't save you go to. Www DOT Ron Paul. Warning the number five dot COM. Where you'll learn simple steps you can take to protect your retirement go online to. Www dot. Ron Paul warning. Five DOT com. Today's guest is Chris McIntosh. Chris founded and built several multi-million dollar businesses in the investment arena including overseeing the deployment of over thirty million dollars into venture capital opportunities and advising family offices internationally prior to this Chris built a career at INVESCO asset management. Lehman Brothers J. P. Morgan Chase and Robert Flemings pretty cool stuff Chris. Mcintosh welcome to the program Sir. Great to be Dan and I assume you're talking to us Live from Singapore. Phnom live from New Zealand at moment on New Zealand. Com hunkered down in more goal right along with everybody else. It's hunkered down some one of these things. We were at some point in time wherever you would you pretty much head to stay But now we we keep the place here. This is where I hang out Kuala. So I'm I'm in New Zealand at the moment but The business that Iran is based in Singapore And as we must have business gets done back Tom. Is You fully away? I suspect you can live anywhere. You Damn well please. These days Now Line of business moist anyway. Provide hotties Internet connection so Yeah all right sounds good so Chris were will definitely talk about your investment style. And what you think of what's going on these days of course but I wonder if I could start by asking you. How old were you when your your mind turned to to finance when you discovered finance and thought wow this would be a great way to spend a career. I didn't I guess. The realization came a little bit later. I I originally had this wonderful idea. That was going to become a lawyer Analysis big debt was had more to do with the fact that I spent my teenage years reading John Grisham books and but then I went on to begin studying. That in in the UNDERGRAD. Part of that was economics And on the economic side or read some of the work studied. Some of the stuff that we add. Which is if you think of just economics one on one. It's it's pretty mundane pretty boring. It's not the kind of stuff that gets most people interested but I found founded quite interesting. managed to get into the investment banks in large Because I was anything special but mostly because it was boom. This was just before it was the nineties. The DOT com boom was just getting getting going. And Sara Lee that will hiring any idiot One of those idiots and so I kind of fell into that world so to speak By by lack Virtue of the fact that there was a boom going on. I was interested in the spice. Kind of wiggled my way in the end and that was as kind of to carry Lewis other things but it never really I quite quickly realized that that wasn't going to be something that I was. GonNa to you. And then yeah just got stuck into doing all sorts of weird and wonderful things In the investment banking world before leaving to pursue the mind thing which was will be much more entrepreneurial in nature. Yes I guess it was tons a question. Probably like tween twenty or nineteen twenty. So I'm I'm curious when you at Lehman Brothers. I assume you weren't there in two thousand eight nine being. Leeman little beam nine ninety seven ninety eight geese surrounded those well before a lot of that so fiasco and there was by Stephen in London. I wasn't there particularly long as actually Just applied for God job in the equity to the root of dais at Lehman before the head of the of European Equity Derivatives. And there's never come out in the news at the time he evidenced in the ball. One cut cane. I think it was. And and so that basically put a dampener on hold of things including Oli positions that he'd taken and the highest they'd made and everything else like that for unite through three or four months prior prior and I was one of those hires inside my new job Put on hold until they could sort of figure things out and I didn't WanNa hang around and wait for that to buyout. was indication as to what timeframe could be as being told it could be six months before things got on. Downton and solemn taking job. Everett often It it it was well before the crisis in infect lifting basement banking. We'll buy a by a bunch thousand nineteen so I was fortunate enough to have been long gone before that all transpired. So when would you say you became or started to become the macro investor that you are today kind of Janney Dane? It wasn't sort of a one off. say Done a whole bunch of stuff in investment banking solid things Moved around in the number Rolls Nine House doing that. I also got into real estate. Over in London and I basically least long term leases in stuffed of short term leases to arbitrage the difference and. I landed up doing that and it was the numbers discount worked doing it more and more until the point where actually had notice investment pulled failure of realist at around London which is pretty difficult to manage while as US attorney works our weeks in Investment Bank But it had kind of given me a taste. Vallance that entrepreneurial side of things just looking at markets which would miss price store had some Albatross availability in them. I guess it was unit. Was One of those things where you you're looking at different different. You realizing that the unity in pretty much any type of marketers seek time And you can drowns Skills into into many things with the sitting in. You're looking at Toronto arbitrage. I Don I A look for site deep value in any particular sector It doesn't really matter if you sitting at Dais Code Blue Trading Bank or the In your home town looking at the price of beans. It's it's it's the same thing Inside did that I left the UK. Because I don't really WANNA have I don't WanNa have a family Admitting a gorgeous wife and we decided that we wanted to gone those somewhere else we didn't quite know that somewhere else was but when you did rising family you not big city wasn't really what we're at off to say Long Story Short. We landed up in New Zealand. And so when I got here it was the same sort of thing I looked around and watch or it's valuable. What's Wiz their opportunity And at the time that seemed to be real estate Criminal on the women. Become a global McCarthy. Always been looking at a lot of those macro type of environments Probably when I was a grip in Africa where we had capital controls. Yana should he comes to but And and so I looked at how people managed through that in the things that they did for example I give you a quick example as Jane that I made. I must must've been should about sixty being and he had He had been trying to get. Because you could take the time with those about twenty grand out of the country. Just nodal ought Yet prove that you were going holiday and will is Kinda nonsense anyways. You couldn't get a lot of capital of the country and people try Rains in the bags and Stuff but it wasn't particularly efficient methodology and one of the things that he had done was He oil on Barrels of oil on ships in Cape Town And he had like a cooperation set up and you'd style of to Greece. Think it was. It was Greece. And he had his cell quote unquote. Sell them to cooperating to today and the neck cooperating to on sell them to someone else and is doing was he was just getting capital out of the country and I remember looking at elites things and is realizing that when you have these mispricing look if you go capital controls mispricing. It's impossible to not have it right and you could select creates opportunity which does so I guess going back in hindsight those a lot of different events that made me look at the world in a different way into as besides an evaluated on a macro basis because it will at the end of the day I think macro matters massively on a micro basis unite in periods of low volatility Geopolitical changes and things of that nature. The they macro doesn't really matter that much when you got a lot of stability being then you probably makes no sense to be my cry But Yeah I just been drawn to trying to understand how the whole world functions an interacts fill some time and it's just been it's been a relation as opposed a one Ace So speaking of one off events were living through an event that I sure hope as a one off and you know it's one of those things where Christ. Oh I know like you say you know we. We did live through a period of low volatility and you can just sorta throw money at US stocks for ten years and it didn't really matter and now all of a sudden it's like this Guy Bill Fleckenstein who you've probably heard of says. Yeah he says. Economics doesn't matter until it does matter and when it does matter that's all that matters and I feel like macro economic fundamentals so it's like we always want to talk to guys like you and we probably should have wanted to do so like a year or two before. What are you doing now? How IS THE CORONA VIRUS? And this you know. Very rapid change in the global economy. How has it changed the way you are looking at things? I'm looking into it. We had a view both of our as it management firm in the research side of things that run on the side of that really just the research based on is management company. We had this view that we were moving quite swiftly towards road alternate Environment If you think if you go back and you think about kind of what preceded it The waste wills of this massive dig bubble. It's a stunning proportions in. It's been a robot a fifty timeframe and then you know it's being it's look it's deflating now but tried to do that in in two thousand sixteen in the rotation In now eight in one ninety ninety seven ninety four in ninety seven ninety one in Sydney full and and if you look at Sovereign Bond. Lock as you can see this long progression. Each and every time we've had some of these an end it's gotten progressively worse like seventy four. Was nothing anyone and even at even was nothing like nothing. Right in terms of the the Central Bank reactions and consequent Date accumulation So kinda going into it. You know we. We had this. We had this hypothesis that That we're going to be moving to the stagflation environment that was built on the is that We would have in particular sectors. We would have a supply deficit and tobacco would bring about inflation in that particular sectors. So you go back and you think about how. We've had inflation over the last couple of decades in Economists in Central Banks. Guess ALARM. Our you know we we find the lost. Wool right. It's like the general is the last one. The last war with respect to inflation has been demanded inflation so it's been emerging market growth. For example problem is that that emerging market right that we've had also was coupled with a massive massive globalization which was deflationary in in aggregate because you pooling and bringing into the global work environment A very low-wage billions of low agendas. Who had prepared a wick? Full kind of money that People in Moist on ladder Exit to Israel and so the very deflation impact on many things But in real in INS- in certain asset classes Going through getting appeared. Way is going to be supply crunch Part of that is from the loss. Commodity being sort of ended twelve tuning. Twenty fading I the that build up being worked off. And so we kind of focused on on that coupled with the fact that monetary stimulus Pretty Much Dan's dash does nothing. Lived really inept particular eliminate lemon juice and so we felt that's and wasn't just feeling as a matter of watching in looking at the language year for Central Bankers That we were to move towards fiscal policies and other policies that would not be monitoring Niger with the belief that would That will change the into change. Inflation like really trying to think about inflation deflation as these narrow concept looking we see what has transpired Everyone understands that pretty easily off the Jason Bowen through central banks through monetary policy at that particular problem and they channel the the the fire hose of liquidity at the banks Because it's kind of like the easiest way for Figured WAS EASIEST. Way For them to get a trickle down effect put into the banks banks to businesses business. Linda's people almost the guy that didn't quite work in fashion. I guess that had wanted to enact it never hit mainstreet. Right as I wat- what benefited from that was financial crisis with stocks and bonds and villa's date but wasn't wage growth. It wasn't United things that sort of mad to Gaber a person which of course is also just built up a with more wealth. Gap Much is on a social pressure by was crazy upheaval in preschools. So going into that was kind of relies. What I would suggest now is dance ahold of quite a lot of at as being really. I think exacerbated And and and a big part of it I think as being brought forward That that date we will build up is just phenomenal. I mean it's it's like I wake up every morning and is just like the numbers are changing so quickly that I can't even keep up with it and I'm sitting looking at the shuttle long. Chris are you talking about numbers like the Fed balance sheet for example just growing? Yeah exactly yeah I mean what were. We elect three weeks ago. Who had fallen off trillion at the five hundred six now already They're gonNA put another six three over the next nine months and probably haven't even gotten started Dan any next just in the US and so then we look across in other central banks around the world. And you know this is. This is a Coordinated if I guess some doing insightful with deputy to the monetary policy side of things. But I think there's a consensus now that that's not gonNA work in a European Japan Dr In that at didn't work Fade speak seems to be at this point right at not agree with Adam nothing. It's that's true in if you think about the end of the day. If if they lower another fifty basis points does mean that you say honey. It's go watch a movie. Take the kids out for dinner. Dying young you've one as if rates go down And so that's again that was inspired to push capital into the banking system in the banking system to filter it through. But we're in different. We've we've never had this before. This is a demand and a supply. Shock all glands And so you're not to solve it with monetary so they're gonNA throw fiscal added on and Dane ultimate Gammon. I think it just has to be a date. You believe of some sort of in a night show I mean we went into this crisis with us into crisis with Structural Deficit And it's it's it ain't going to get better. We not that like you. Think about the balancing side of things It's exploding Gate revenue side. Which is basically your tax receipts Tonto. Gdp will we know it's happening to GDP rotten our on And so if you and I looked at this like a business it's it's pretty bloody frightening If we were looking at the GOBLINS has business so Yeah it's it's I mean I kind of feel like at the moment. Prices are just weren't that sort of fog of uncertainty way you'll carry in the car crash And you just WanNa Miss. The trees am way. An Eye Heaven Age to play in that dinette environment in Dubai. The spears zero is bottoming belongs or by shore tonight. I'm like I think that's the wrong question to ask. Will or maybe a question to someone a scuba skills that than I do? I just look further at second order consequences to what's happening. What happens when you come out of the car crash and I think what happens? Is You basically survey the carnage around and that's Vein? Wayne balance-sheets begin to matter. Insolvency begins to at the moment is just a I mean it's just it's liquidity driven event in in the liquidity driven being prematch Everything goes to a one correlation in doesn't Matt so you'll see goal getting solved. You'll see everything gets because it gets cold as collateral. If you pay your bills you gotta Pay Your bills and if you and I are running funding we got we redeemed like Ucla what you have to sell. And typically you'll going to sell so some liquid because it's easy to set of course guys like you attract assets though right you don't get redemptions percent so so you so you. WanNa look at for people trying to look for value. Jesus is a ton of out the But that doesn't mean that you gonNA buy today in it's going to be more Is to work tomorrow. I think again. You usually Watermark you gotTa know what you're buying in why of buying and I think that's it's a much important thing because otherwise you're GonNa get whip sold you can have people buy something in the wake up. The next morning is down thirty percent Guy Shit. Am I the wrong decision? And and say well has the thesis China. What did you buy? Why did you buy was a cheap was expensive? And if you can onsite as Christians than you can get a bit of things in your mind haters to having that ability to ride three then inevitable stole because you never gonNa neither the bottom like you. Just you're not am and the people say that they can pick. It will rather foolish edge all maybe they are particularly good. But I've mean I talk with top tried in the world and these guys never pick the bottoms get close and the manage in in analyzed positions in silence Scifo but It's like probably should city percent of the time that you're GonNa really actually now let bottom. And that's if you're dance if you're one of the based if that Hundred fine with I mean is a is a good friend of mine in He's he's retired now He's in his late forties and demanded a massive amount of money Working in at Wigan appropriate proprietor Years back and he estimates that about twenty percent of the time he can get it. Connor right and honest. He's like one of the shop tried on Eva Mate and so he can get it like twenty percent time and but then it's a little bit positions housing right. He knows how to position size so that he doesn't get wiped out and and Lagan out of stuff And your average prisons just not GonNa Have Beck dip the skill and knowledge inside in an I dined and I've been doing this for live home so just doesn't appeal to me to to try and time the answer so you you you. WanNa look full. What are those asset classes that really interesting whereas the deep value and and then In the position sizes to that you can not get whipsawed. Said you know getting up at two o'clock in the morning and quickly checking find to see what the prices in. I LIKE BEDS. If you're doing that then you're you're doing complete wrong so I think there's a lot of whip sawing going on these days especially among retail investors. I think think it's insane environment and I call it untradable for a lot of things because know a lot of people who listen to us when this podcast in. Read our stuff and everything you know. They're they're retail folks. Who Like you say? They don't have that depth of knowledge and they think they're going to buy during a crisis and then like you say then they're down thirty percent the next day and it's just it's too much so let me ask you this. Chris. Is there any place in particular? I know like when your website capitalist exploits. There's a fair amount of discussion about various commodities and gold mining stocks and silver and various. Other things here and there. How do you feel about those right now? Yeah Gold's I'm not as I mean in putting on a pistol. Benji you'll readers listeners. I'm not as bullish on. Gold is as many not that. I'm not bullish. I just think on a relative basis goals goals Actually Walt Disney retail on quality goal More interesting probably Silva Platinum and and other sake if look goals is still a monetary assets precious metals and And so this is a very good reason to. I am If we're be going into a an inflation environment and that is our `promise. I think that we're GONNA gate aiming t full listeners. It's one monetary theory which is just a fancy to full date monetization and allowing allowing the market to tell the central bankers Wayne Win. They should or shouldn't Monetize in mandate I'm so based on demand. So they can. That's going to control things on both on the inflation or deflation of things but really just comes down to sort of Marxist ideology of Binzhou pointy shoes in Shawneetown as Believing that they have the sufficient knowledge to know how the world works and to know which leaves to push Wayne in how on and if we look at history that clearly indicates that that is a false allies. Nevertheless I think we're GONNA go down that path and I believe that it'll be inflationary. And if that's true then if you WanNa be owning assets which are GONNA benefit on. Inflationary sounded things Goal does kind but actually if you look at the history of the base performing acid. Almost always always is energy. I'm so there's a number of things in energy complex we're very interested in and I mean is other things that are quite interesting in terms of agricultural as well But it got a bit of a nuance view. I mean to little people will look at that and then you must be really bearish on the dollar and I'm actually non. I'm very bullish on the dollar bilberry. We're going into this. We went with our dollar explosion. Which benefited US Really well which bill lack I mean. Shit at was locally. There were a number things while we felt. Abdullah is a good place. Beam and is is still true night at a worldwide. Bad Flu is GonNa Rob Dole steps and do what it's done. So in that respect it was lucky on that front. But and this'll just think exacerbated. We're seeing it now. This is a lot of collateral. Kohl's were going through a credit contraction and with a global reserve kinds of being adult events. Always GONNA be Bullish on the dollar because just for the sheer fact that the dollar is the reserve concern is we don't know exactly what the figure is but the estimates around stating trillion in dollar denominated external date. So it's a structural short. That's out there end in the if you think about how Zany date gay-pied will get paid with cash out and we know what's happening to cash flows globally and so then collateral starts getting cooler newstalk moving quite quickly into this top of environment Magnus the easiest analogy could come up with is the Asian ninety seven crisis and that was set up with Acid by just gotten outta whack in this instance. It wasn't dead. Acid VALUES GORDON. Outta whack In terms of those dead external dollar denominated date but cash are getting impacted the Sun Nc State of the same conspire UIL And one of the things we've been watching movies and this was going to twenty seven teen twenty eighteen and we started seeing a bunch of them starting to break We were very short. This American rand They've actually just two weeks ago. Moody's come out in Deng themselve. That's that's put a win behind that dried And you still in it. Y- Yes therefore could screwed. I mean I wish wasn't I'm grew up way but for a long time Manages of really does not understood what's going on the circus in my mind is just like that. He is behind only other disastrous Countries surrounding it which tried these boxes policies. They just try them city alien and so there have following sign. It's is falling like literally exactly the sign route And Again I. It's not a bad wishing like what I want to happen. I it none of that matters. It's united so you got to distance yourself from that win. Investing capital so in think about bad you will waters could produce you can like synthetically short. The rain just exiting brought being long the materials that produces because Supply Constraints Day you think about any Marxist type country does it produce more or less goods. Pretty easy onset. Rhyme seven could produce so and of course now. We got bad fleet Aaron so they shut down like thirty percent of the gold minds just as an example in sometimes called its own. Mind side So there's that Casado things to it But ultimately the United think we think we have another. It's going to happen Investing is just a matter of probability and running those probabilities in baiting way the with an isometric unity and position sizing such that. You don't if if wrong it's GONNA kill you and if you're right you're gonNA make multiple new money and you're always going to look back. Dan Wish at a bigger position in that. But that's the nature of you can't ECON HAVE. I can eat so I think that is a decent probability that the dollar really really runs like more than anyone can even imagine at this point But that will probably cools such a structural problem worldwide. That it'll probably break it an quite know what it looks like but I do not wanNA WANNA at the same time as that an and it's an it's It's things that are critical to society and humanity which ironically are some of the cheapest asset classes we gave a scene like Abor So like energy for example lack energy I mean if you think about like an cul calls like the devil right of all of them. Because we've had this whole. Climate is area fossil fuel greater Crowd people chaining themselves to bridges Offense and and so and then on top of it. We've obviously seen a massive debasement of investment in northern fossil fuels but especially in call with Ruby sovereign wealth funds with blackrock whether it's Just guys holding mutual funds. Like everyone's gone none on me to come out of this thing went on adding Coal People forget that there's two types of colors These maton thermal and and at the end of the day without meat. You like you have on all without only steel. That steel don't have any buildings so I mean you you can crawley worn about killing the brown spotted owl but FAC at the end of the day. We're not going to get we. Don't get rid of call And if you look back at history whenever we've gone through transitions in terms of energy We've actually never transition transition is the wrong word. We've just added Capacity Ryan. If you think about your cellphone win win win. We added Bandwidth and storage capacity now funds. Only did was. He just found other things to do them right. So you and I will now have a chat and will use video. Conferencing oil will say Videos of Asians flowing for bicycles. Or whatever the case is is united so we find uses for the extra capacity and energies different. So like when we transitioned from would to call. We actually continue to utilize the same amount of would just means that we used on aggregates way more call so call made up much much. Bigger percentage of the overall energy composition but I- usage of would didn't actually decline in fact we use more would today as Eiji than we did. When would was the sole Energy source that the world used and the same is true of coal. We went from coal to Nettie Gas oil in nuclear. We still continue to use coal to the same Actually this is being being growth in it but on an on an aggregate basis. Obviously Nettie everything else. Took up a much much bigger portion. And so these these being this wide spread narrative that we're GONNA BASICALLY GIVE UP. Oli Fossil fuels and we're GONNA use wind and solar and Unicorn Fonts and God knows what else and that just vice by mathematics and science and history. And so then you look at how priced again is absolutely no capital is being going into these into these sectors like none and so It's it's just stunning to me. But what it means is that you get a severe as pricing last again. If I if I think about coal today we have around the world and most people. Just don't think about this considering the headlines but this a massive bill downs in Cow Stations In South Africa told Matt got about seventy nine plants. The building twenty four more plans What else we can. India India's got about five hundred ninety four ninety nine. I think it is the building. Four hundred and forty-six mall the Philippines South Korea Japan Japan's ninety the building. Another forty five China's good like to nearly two thousand two thousand three hundred sixty three. I think it is and building another one thousand one hundred and something like this massive build out. Oh that any psycho will the GONNA come from and WHO's GonNa findings and then you look at the whole coal space and you've got these companies Dan which the bean through restructurings often date. They're like the dividend yields Seventeen Twenty fifteen And and an trading off book. And you just look at the end so I just a again. You can buy these things tomorrow. Might BE DOWN THIRTY PERCENT. I know but what do not is that. The probability is that they won't go away and so and and they can take pretty much any hits because the date with every low levels of date I mean there's plenty of the mount they become look is odd call Stan Mole. Stanley's date odds goals low date anyway so when you think about bats and then you think about the trillions of dollars that are being thrown at us which ultimately have to monetize and I think they have to get monetize because when you have the vast majority of population and this is globally to the US in a wasted world that our data's you're going to have to you're going to sacrifice a credit to the data's because it's not politically feasible to other way around so if a win tron buys They WANNA be earning Staff for one thing and you WANNA be in a position way. You're not taking balance sheet risk. I mean I think we come out of this. Congress enacts win win balance sheets. Mad At solvency matters And other probably be at the corporate level first and then it's going to move towards the gallon global where at some point in government. Solvency Matters Especially when I saw monitoring date. So that's kind of how my playbook looks like at the moment In how we'RE POSITIONING FOR IT and I. I didn't pertain to know how this is. GonNa look deny that we can have massive hit to global GDP. I think and I think it's a long grinding one. A short in shop and And so these I think there's a huge opportunity In terms of a transfer of wealth that that's going to take place If that fire hose liquidity that was basically seemed ads. Financial Assets And they're going to have to move that by at Fi- hose over to main street and that's going to completely alter how capital gets allocated your your average person in the street doesn't give a shit about with the. Dow's up or down right. It's just like even if you've got a relatively big for a one K. As you guys have Indian states have Use Easy numbers. Let's say you're on a hundred grand a year and you've got a million in a 401k on people wouldn't have religious us at his numbers you'll if the Dow's up or down yet you'll you'll be a guy that's that's cool however if you lost to job that becomes much much prevalent on a relative basis and that Russia's probably more closed like Andre branding coming maybe two fifty four Berlin kind of five hundred. And so you'll you'll point of pain is even cashless rhyme much much more importantly because he liberal folk the night even if even if you half a million dollars in And it goes up by on twenty percent desert. Replace Your income for Frey Nope And and so and then you get into the position way. All if that's the case you're gonNA start liquidating in order to pay your bills or if everybody's doing it within this is not really possible for the for the 401K to go up because everybody's GonNa sell side by side so again targeting. Financial Acids is waste time. And I don't think the Central Banks. I think they've realized that so they're gonNa talk minds beat and let's GonNa be fiscal spending. And it's going to be direct money injections into the patient And that's going to have Voss v Vase different impact on inflation deflation and an accident asset classes with where we focused in Very excited about it excitements not good. It's not a good healing bowl and invested to have. Because I think you should be right now. You don't WanNa you don't want done by Shit right by your MBA. So you say you've always got to try and put that in context and make sure that you've you're you're not you're not. You're not seeing things that aren't they because you want them to be. I guess is the lead. Think about it perfect. Yeah we've actually come to the end of our time but I don't want to ask any more questions because what you've just painted such a clear picture here that I want that to be like the last thing. Listener has in his head at the end of this. You know it's funny because a lot of the macro guys have been talking about strong dollar and now of course. The discussion about you know from monetary stimulus to fiscal stimulus is gaining a lot of traction. A lot of it. It's it's nice to talk with somebody who kind of has figured all this out and knows what to buy and and where to look and then I hope our listeners kind of took notes and are getting some good ideas from that right now but Chris you'll have to come back especially with you and considering what's going on right now you'll have to come back in. I don't know whatever. It is six or twelve months or some some period of time that makes sense and Sorta tell us where you are then because you know God only knows where where the world will be where the global economy will be. I'm just curious about a couple of things that you said the dollar and energy and coal and things. Maybe we'll just make a tentative date. I hope to get back together. Maybe in six or nine or twelve months or something yeah blockchain. Okay look lifeways bitches and minds. I can talk about this stuff along with good. We'll talk to you again. Hopefully sooner rather than later I will look forward to Dan. Thanks so much take all right. You Take Care Chris. Thanks all right. That was quite a good talk. We heard a lot of ideas from somebody who obviously carries a broad sort of detailed picture of where the world is and what's happening and and can drill down into parts of it sort of at a moment's notice it's really really cool and I hope you heard you know the similarities with other macro guests row pal and Kevin Moore and Cullen road and Mark Dow and things most of them have maintained strong dollar rising gold. But maybe Gold's not the greatest thing you know good but not great lot of themes here come up with people who are capable of seeing the world this way really interesting stuff. I hope you enjoyed that. All right let's move on in the mail bag each week. You and I have an honest conversation about investing or whatever else is on your mind. Just send your questions. Comments and politely worded criticisms please to feedback at investor our DOT COM. I read every email. You send me every word every word and I respond to as many as I can I off. This week is Mike K. Mike K. Just wanted to say hey just got around to listening to the investor our with Bethany. Mclean very upbeat. A real person definitely worth hearing her speak refreshing Mike K. Says and I just wanted to know we interviewed Bethany and episode one forty eight and it was a good interview. Go listen to it next. Up Is Brian G. Brian G says hi Dan. This is not rushing span but I'm hopeful you'll read it anyhow. I don't read the Russian Spam Brian. I don't read Russian spam anymore. Used to Brian continues with respect to bitcoin. Here's the reason I have not invested in it. The Federal Reserve will have to deal with this as a competing currency and when this becomes an issue the US government outlaw all electronic currencies except anything issued by the Federal Reserve. Seems to me. This could be quite detrimental to one's alternative currency investment. It's not as though this type of thing hasn't happened before. See Nineteen thirty three United States gold. I'm interested in hearing your comments on this issue. Okay Brian I hear you. If bitcoin really gets hold. The Fed won't like it. The problem is they won't be able to do anything about it. What are they GONNA do? This thing is designed. It's heavily encrypted. It's designed to be completely outside of the financial system and frankly so as gold. What are they GONNA do? Go to everybody's house and steal their gold. I don't see it happening. I'm not worried about this at all. In fact is brilliantly designed for that expressly in mind. Okay so next calms Brett are and read our says dear. Dan really been enjoying your episodes late. We Bill Bill. Browder has a riveting story all details aside. I tend to side with an American over the Russian government on who to believe. But I'm sure neither side is Saint Louis per se. I commend you on having a strong spine when dealing with your critics. I'm not sure it'd be able to handle it as well as you in response to them. It seems clear to me that you're not into thoroughly researching a guest prior to having them on. There have been times when I've wished you to press harder with some guests CETERA CETERA etc Brett. Okay listen I hear you Brett and I said look. I should known about that. Magnitsky Act film before we interviewed Bill Browder. I don't think it turned out badly that I didn't so you're right. If I like a guy I like a story I'm going to go. Hey ready fire aim and I'm going to get on and talk to him as soon as I can and then you know if things come up I'll handle it and look I hope by now. Everybody knows that if I interview somebody and something completely misrepresented yours truly is going to get on at the first opportunity and say you know something guys. I got this wrong. I've done it before and I promise you I'll do it again. In fact folks. That is one of the reasons I agreed to take over the podcast reporter and Buck in the first place because I hate the way financial news media. Always acts like whatever's happening today. They saw it all along. They never go back and revisit their mistakes. We ain't going to do that around here. We're going to be real with you but thank you Brad. Are you gave me an opportunity to get real next? Is Matthew Matthew? Am SAYS BIG? Fan of the show learned a lot from you and appreciate you. I have a question on your statement. And I'm paraphrasing that the Fed doing q. e. quantitative easing has shown to not create inflation. Because it's a zero sum game in that they by the Treasury bond with digital money they create but take treasury bond out of circulation then. He has several questions here. I'm going to answer them one at a time. I question did we not see money? Creation at the commercial level due to artificially low interest rates that cause rising prices in the stock market and. Not so much in consumer goods. Cpi ANSWER MATTHEW IS YEAH. We do see money. Creation banks create banks lend money into existence. If that's what you're talking about so the answer is yes next question by Matthew M. my question is why wouldn't artificially lower interest rates 'cause more money creation at the commercial level? Well it does and you're right. Also why would it be at all likely that the money created off of lower interest rates? This time would go into the stock market or US assets again and cause a strong dollar. I don't see this strong dollar. Who wants to invest in a company with a lot of debt after cove it now? I assume matthew that you're making an analogy between the federal government as a company right. You're saying it's like a company I don't think so and your question is a good one though. Why would why would the newly created money into the stock market a US assets again and cause a strong dollar? It's still sixty percent of all the foreign exchange in the world and it probably settles eighty percent of all the transactions in the world. It's very very very hard to sell anything without buying dollars. Okay very hard so this is not something that I think will forever either. Remember the thesis here is the dollar becomes super duper strong because we get another liquidation event similar to what we saw in March of this year and because of that that demand for dollars it gets so strong that it breaks itself right because it's too strong when it could currency gets too strong it has a very depressive effect and people are like screw this. We're going to print money right. That's the idea and finding says do you think investors will accept high debt levels and blow this bubble up again in stocks. Or do you see it. More likely that consumer prices get bid up and we get very high inflation higher prices Matthew. I don't know how it exactly plays out. But you are pointing in a generally good direction right. The federal government borrows and borrows in borrows meaning that the reserve is printing and printing and printing and buying up the securities right the debt securities that constitutes federal government borrowing and eventually this pisses investors off. They buy gold and sell dollars in turns against. That's what's happened historically. Lots of great questions. I'm glad you should be asking them. Next is Jonah he says. Thank you for this episode with Bill. Browder it was so riveting. I shared with others. Some of whom were personally affected by the horrendous band of international adoptions from Russia by Putin I could write ten more pages about this but I will spare you stay. Well keep up the great work. Thank you John for the comment. Okay now we'll see is wondering about bitcoin. I won't read the whole thing. But he says for example. Quantum computers seemed far fetched but not impossible and could break current cryptography. There's also the hypothetical of a single actor gaining majority control of the network on which bitcoin traded. Twenty-one million bitcoins are only six because the network agrees. This is the limit a powerful actor. Rewrite this code and with enough network control change would propagate through the network probably impossible but maybe no different than pulling gold out of the ocean. Keep up the great work boss. Thank you we'll see thank you will yes. I mentioned a technology like something pulling gold out of the ocean as possibly creating a lot of new gold right that could affect the value of gold but overall I think even that would not completely ruined gold as a store of value. I think it's unlikely that we get that event. You describe in Bitcoin but you know what there's a reason why don't say. Put All your money. A bitcoin wise by good businesses in the stock market old. Lots of cash hold gold and wholesome bitcoin too that's why we diversify because there are risks in every asset and you're right to point them out. Okay Matt Oh wants to criticize me. Because he says I'M SURPRISED BY INCREDULITY. Expressed it someone calling a plumber to their house during the COVID. Nineteen pandemic all. I'll say Matt Is. You're right when I was saying that I was a while ago. I was a lot more concerned than I am now. And you're right to call me out on it are from Texas. Wrote a big long email that amounts to criticism of he's talking about how in New York you know this ventilator situation in New York which is a highly regulated market and doesn't let people build new hospitals surgery centers unless they get this certificate that that says that they're allowed to do it in other words. The government is limiting the supply of these things whereas in his State of Texas with forty eight percent more population. They didn't need ventilators said it. Needed ventilators cost millions of dollars to get him. There and Texas has a free market in hospitals and no problem are your point is well taken and I totally agree with you. It's ridiculous. Why would you willingly limit the amount of healthcare that can be provided by limiting? You know if a doctor wants to invest in a new surgery center or doctors get together. Investors want to build a hospital. Why limit them? Why prevent them from doing so? Why why limit the supply? My view on this is that you know how it goes man. Regulations are generally put in place and supported by the large incumbents in any industry. Right the big banks love banking regulations because it makes banking more expensive and makes it harder for for up and coming competition and you can see that lots of industries. We've talked about this before but now we get an example in the healthcare industry in New York. Really good insight. There are thank you well. That's another of the stands. Mary investor our hope. You enjoyed it as much as I did. Do me a favor subscribe to the show on I tunes Google. Play or wherever you listen to podcasts. And while you're there help us grow the show. With a rate and a review you can also follow us on facebook and Instagram are handle is at investor. Our have guessed. You'd like me to interview drop us. A note at feedback investor our DOT COM till next. Week I'm Dan Ferris. Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to this. Episode OF THE STANDS BERRY INVESTOR OUR TO ACCESS. Today's notes and received notice of upcoming episode go to investor our DOT COM and. Enter your email. Have a question for Dan. Send him an email feedback at investor. Our DOT COM. This broadcast is for entertainment purposes. Only and should not be considered personalized investment advice trading stocks and all other financial instruments involves risk. 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Chris McIntosh United States bill browder Frederick Lewis Allen Dan China New Zealand Sergei magnitsky America Dr Ron Paul Moscow Times Dan Ferris federal government Google
Inside Europe 15.11.2018

Inside Europe

54:52 min | 2 years ago

Inside Europe 15.11.2018

"D w. Inside here Palo. I'm Keith Walker in Bonn, Germany coming up on today's program. Poland celebrates one hundred years of regaining independence, British finance her Bill Browder, he was behind the US Magnitski. He now wants Europe to usher end sanctions against human rights abusers. The EU has legislation for putting people responsible for chemical weapons on lists people responsible for political invasions. But there doesn't exist people responsible for human rights violations. And as we know we're living in a world of massive human rights violations. Taking place every day everywhere. Also on the show, tourism, and Iceland. It's booming. But how other countries fragile ecosystems holding up these stories and more coming up on inside Europe? As Poland celebrated the centenary of regaining its independence last weekend. Rival marches were held by pro e u and anti EU forces government leaders lead a nationalist March in Warsaw, which was joined by far right supporters as antiga activists heckled from the sidelines. Those who see their future in the United Europe rallied around the president of the council Donald tusk in the city of WJR. He openly warned pose against the idea of leaving the EU so called Pola legs it reporting from Warsaw Yulia n- Berna. With much pomp and circumstance like this tenuous communal singing of the national anthem in schools across the country Poland celebrated its reemergence as an independent state in the wake of will one. But amidst all this togetherness there were signs of deep divisions between those who support the euroskeptic nationalist government. And those who feel it is owner collision course with the EU in the recent that rests polish president Andry doodad describe the bloggers and imaginary community from which we don't gain too much addressing crowds on independence day, both he and the country's behind the scenes ruler gyros of Cotin ski paid lip service to Poland's membership of the EU. But what happened after that was a clear indication of where parliament is really adding. The trampling of the EU flag calls for Powell to leave the EU and racist anti immigrant slogans world, part of a two hundred thousand strong right-wing March through Walsall sanctioned by the president it moved right behind the official parade brandishing Neo Nazi flags told and firing flares. Polish extremists were joined by Neo Nazis from Italy, Germany and other countries speaking at a separate ceremony in the city of war on the eve of the March, former polish prime minister, Donald tusk who is now Yukon so president had a word of warning for his compatriots Bullock's visuals zero basically. Whole exit which means Poland leaving the EU is possible. Not because he is five Kaczynski has a plan to this affect. He says he doesn't, but whatever his intentions are one thing is clear compared to Brexit this time Europe, maybe somehow less keen on insisting that Poland remains within the block. I reckon. It's a very serious matter. The consequences for Poland can be dramatic. I hope that all those who are trying to get Poland out of the EU will come to their senses. Former polish foreign minister at this what she called ski now in condemning and political commentator believes that Poland might actually be forced into politics at scenario by default. For instance, by flagrantly defying the European quote of Justice, which has called on Walsall respect, e you know, she caught a ski describes the coaching ski strategy as very tricky. I feared that he may make the same mistake as fellow Europhobes in Britain. He thinks he's just trying to get a bit of deal out of Brussels. But he has started the rhetoric and a political movement that he may find he killed in the end control. So he may engineer poets it without meaning here in the streets of also the dust may have settled after the independence day ceremonies, but emotions are still running high both among euro-enthusiasts, and those who believe that the EU has nothing to offer them on us. Richard Vincent Chebba. Does life beyond the European Union? We must get out of it. It's now dictating what we should do the future lies in sulphur an independent states, which will look after their own interests, the EU should be dismantled. We should be looking for allies of our own. Worked hard to create a strong position of Ohlund among countries of the European Union allow it's destroyed. So I think that this is a problem, which is a problem not on the Herath one of the most spectacular recent additions Walsall's map is allowed to plaza. It's laid out between several newly built gleaming skyscrapers with striking designs. Espace full of greenery open cafes in bars where everything is on a human scale, this favorite new meeting place called European plaza was built you guessed it with you money in one of the cafes. I said down with writer at any use zella his genuinely concerned about the direction which pollens rulers are taking it regardless of how much use structural funding. They have received I'm really afraid now that we will not be in the European Union. I think it's serious knows taking so much money from European. So if you don't want to be knit, you know, don't take money because it's fits you. So and this one I am afraid of the people like me, maybe decide to leave all and until now polls have been among the most urine Susia. Stick nations in opinion, polls earlier this year as many as eighty percents said they supported membership of the EU. But on the flip side in the recent poll conducted following months of the government's anti Lia rhetoric. A third said that leaving the EU wasn't such a bad idea. Yuliana Badinter d-w Walsall and I'm Keith Walker in Bonn, Germany. You're listening to inside Europe ten years ago, Russian anti-corruption lawyer Sergei Magnitsky was arrested on charges of creating illegal tax evasion. Schemes he subsequently died in pretrial detention his friends and clients Bill. Brighter vied to punish those involved in his killing brighter shepherded through the Magnitsky act in the United States, thus blacklisted Russian officials deemed responsible for the death of Magnitsky and also applied asset freezes on visa bans, brighter has since been sentenced in absentia to nine years in Russia for bankruptcy fraud and tax evasion. Now, he wants Europe to follow the US adopting sanctions against human rights abusers. Teri Schultz has more Bill Browder says the European Union shouldn't have to look far to find reasons to take action against the Kremlin over human rights. The scrip all poisoning the downing of flight m h seventeen the imprisonment of Ukrainian filmmaker Oleg sense off the annexation of Crimea. And yet Browder notes the EU doesn't have sanctions against human rights violators. The EU has legislation for putting people responsible for chemical weapons on lists people responsible for political invas- beige. But there there doesn't exist people responsible for human rights violations. And as we know we're living in a world of massive human rights violations. Taking place every day everywhere, routers, Russian lawyer Sergei Magnitsky was beaten to death in two thousand nine in a Moscow prison where he'd been thrown while investigating authorities involvement in a multi-million euro tax fraud by twenty twelve Browder had shepherded through the Magnitsky rule of law accountability act in the US, which blacklisted Russian officials deemed responsible for Magnitsky's death. Applying asset freezes and visa bans that became the global Magnitsky act in two thousand sixteen expanding its reach to human rights offenders worldwide. The European parliament approved a resolution in twenty fourteen calling for the European Commission to create an e you version nothing happened Browder says he was told e you High Representative Federica Marini was not in favor and that he'd have better luck lobbying individual countries. He says. That was exacerbated and to get anything happening in EU requires power leverage enforce in shame to make things happen helmet. Schultz a German member of the European parliament from the left party says he thinks Brussels should already have some shame about its own record on human rights. The lawmaker doesn't support sanctions as a way to change Russian behavior of an issue. Hyphen ish fund us GOP's when you don't think much of the fact that the European Union is showing itself as the democracy teach. It would sell the countries when we ourselves are not able to adapt to sit and principles values and standards Browder mounts similar criticism on that count. But it hasn't stopped him from trying and it's paid off in a few countries Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and the UK now have Magnitsky acts Browder believes several other countries are likely to follow the US government has weighed in on Browder side with State Department. Sanctions expert, David Tessler, urging the EU to adopt a Magnitsky act as part. Stepped up efforts to combat what he calls a clear and present danger posed by the Kremlin, both are Russia Magnitsky and our global magnets. Yes. Or very effective. They are both affective in targeting, respectively, human rights and corruption exposing those actors that are involved and putting them on notice that they cannot with impunity continued that kind of aviator we do think that it would be a powerful step for Europe to take Browder. Finally feels things may be moving forward, but not an exactly the direction he'd hoped later this month. The Dutch government will host talks with all e u governments. But on what it's terming a global human rights sanction regime. Not an e you Magnitsky act Browder is incensed by that calling it capitulation to Moscow deleting Sakharov's name or or Mendela's name because that upset Russia or South Africa so much. I mean, it's ridiculous. Magnitsky's name is on six pieces of legislation. It's been his sacrifice his murder that lead that led to this entire movement in what the Dutch wanna just deleted. That's just that. That's just a -fensive this week. He was in a special session at the Dutch parliament appealing to keep Magnitsky's name on the proposal. Several lawmakers agreed to try despite all the setbacks over nine years, not to mention threats to his personal safety such a campaign against the Kremlin entails Browder remains undeterred. I'm not gonna live in fear. I will do what I can to protect myself, but I'm carrying on. And it has as I can I'm going to get Justice for Sergei Magnitsky make these people in Russia who participated in that crime and who who participated in the cover up paid yearly for what they did Teri Schultz. D-w Brussels still to come tourism in Iceland is booming. But how other countries fragile ecosystems holding up on Keith Walker in Bonn, Germany? This is inside Europe. Okay. Here's a question for you. Which British Sunday would filling has the worst carbon footprint. I'll tell you in just a moment earlier this year. Researchers the university of Manchester studied twenty of Britain's top-selling somebody's to figure out which fillings contribute the most to climate change. Here's the answer. No prizes for guessing that it's the full English breakfast that said bacon sausage and egg that generated the most carbon dioxide emissions at seems just easing one mega meat sandwiches. As poisonous for the plan as driving the average car for nineteen kilometers muscle about twelve miles McMartin spoke to some British experts here in Bonn to say, how far they would go to change the eating habits to save the plummets cheese and pickle ham and coastal Vichy flies back to native. Britain. Why some ching has developed to routine that involves the humble sandwich? One. It's one of the first things I do when I land get we can't put a Washington, the Motte suspense is and by myself Assad much Ryan Johnny originally from Paul Smith in England. She now lives near bone in western Germany with her husband spin and full year old son Dylan while she's got used to launch use of brought I and meet bulls. She often the Hankas off to tastes from home. It's just so much variety in the feelings in the UK. You know, you have the chicken tika, you might have you pull and cocktail you might have you be out as might be. They might have more. Japanese twist to it like a chicken teriyaki by get I guess maybe for phone. They might think that's a funny combination to have in breads, but I think the UK just love it though. To order rookies. Love affair was sandwiches was the focus of a recent study by researchers at the university of Manchester who estimated that the eleven point five billion so-called sonny's eaten in the UK every year the equivalent to having eight point six million extra 'cause on the road. And though it sounds surprising that fillings have mainly processed meats had the highest carbon footprint one of the study's authors at he says Pedrick said sandwiches, stuffed with dairy products. Also fed quite badly. One of the surprises, perhaps would have been a sandwiches, which have a cheese, hops, you would expect a high Akaba footprint of it such sandwiches. But in fact, it turns out that the products have a high a footprint, and that is because of the cows, which bugged me sane and me saying is a potent greenhouse gas. Ham and cheese sandwiches fed pulley along with Pronin mayonnaise. Researches look to the complete life cycle of sandwich making to arrive at the estimates, including the farming if the ingredients meal creation packaging consumption, waste refrigeration and transportation, they also compared the top twenty shop board sandwiches to their equivalent lunches made at home to see if the increasingly industrial processes used by big retailers were helping or hindering climate change. Professor as a project says the difference was stock. They have found that the homemade Tunbridge header hall the impact of climate change compared to the commercially made sandwich. If to take away from the research is that we should buy fewest sandwiches and make our own Chang is concerned that the economy's have countries like Britain and now built on the consumption of food outside the home. If you have to small businesses, especially that trying to compete with the logic as they went really sat a tons of people's. Heating habits again to change. I said I'm gonna make my food bringing into what the next day, for example. I think that would suffer. So is a it's a tough balance as a project says a return to less intensive farming methods more green, packaging and substituting. The worst ingredients for healthy alternatives. Could massively reduce the environmental impact research is also called for the use by dates of supermarket sandwiches to be extended as they are often conservative that view is backed up by the British sandwich association, which estimates that at least two thousand tons of sandwich waste could be saved annually, but in focusing on the lovable British Sanni, the carbon footprint of fos food chains a sector that's growing in the UK by eight percent a year and is arguably much worse for the environment remains ignored McMartin reporting for DWI. This is inside Europe. Here are two words that don't apply to the. Icelandic tourist industry low season. A boom in tourism has been the main driver of the country's recovery from its financial crisis. You may remember a decade ago. Iceland's currency collapsed. Made the capital Reykjavik convenient stopover on transatlantic trips than word spread about the glaciers volcanoes and waterfalls within a day's drive from the airport today Iceland draws to under half million visitors a year. That's got Alexa, divorce wondering how well it's frontal ecosystems will hold up and whether the tour guide business could use an upgrade every day hundreds of people walk along a treeless path to gaze expectantly at offense Dauth pit full of steaming water. The gurgling noises like a never ending sound bite from the bowels of the earth. This is a geyser about to blow. An instant gush of water sends a boiling plume thirty meters. High about every seven minutes. It's one of many natural wonders that draw crowds to this volcanic terrain along the so-called, golden circle in southern Iceland. Further east is the Yukos are long glacial to goon where giant icebergs stand like sculpted sentinels in luminous other-worldly shades of blue the blue collar this with a thickness of the ice into reflection. As by the why is our guide on this amphibious vehicle that shaped like an arc but mounted on giant tires that float when they hit the water to drive home the importance of keeping a safe distance from the icebergs, he jokes about avoiding a repeat of the Titanic. The icebergs are certainly dangerous if you get too close, but due to climate change. They're also endangered and the glacier in our midst. The biggest in Europe is retreating faster than any other was if you see beautiful Louis bed or just rope out of his bed. That means that these one too. So it depends every day just up to the right place the right momentus unites over and then as if on cue after just a few minutes it happens. What a nice is just flipping over on its side. And it's gonna make some way. Our group certainly got more than we bargained for the presence of a well informed. Natural history guide makes a big difference. Like, Ben wa whose French many come from abroad since there aren't enough Icelanders to accommodate two and a half million visitors a year, but yuck. Oh bionson who started guiding seven years ago is a local you have common guides like me talk about history, geology culture, then you have the more specialized guides you have hiking guides. Reindeer hunting guides Wayne watching guides all these call for different needs of education, but to operate as a guide here. One needs some sort of a license or certification, correct? No turns out there isn't much regulation involved in Iceland tour guide business, no training required. That is the main probably we are dealing with because we have all kinds of fortune seekers who started to companies. Among them. There is a common view. Oh as long as your entertaining. It's okay. I soon found out what you on cement five. Tonight. We all end the now, I am a Torquato here in Iceland. Then I have my company here Iceland is nice, Lunt. And I'm working for other companies to go around then showing people and entertain them. This local guide played his harmonica to accompany an Icelandic song. He'd queued up on his music system. But he was driving almost one hundred twenty kilometers an hour at the same time along Iceland's, rainy, windy, south west peninsula, and it was getting dark not the kind of bus ride. Most of the passengers were after Yaacob Johansen thinks these fortune seeking types of guides should do more homework. Instead, the country's striking assault. Cliffs ten thousand waterfalls and thermal vents are like mirrors that reveal how much of the earth was formed long ago, if ice slumped didn't exist, just imagine. But then we decide you, and I to create a destination for people from all over the world. We would create a destination that would look exacly like Iceland looks the same age the same jail nature everything now who should come here. And why are we selling? We need to answer all these questions without thinking. Oh, it just happened to be here. That's not good enough. But the topography was more than good enough for these visitors are loved it. I wish I had longer. I didn't know icebergs flipped that was awesome breathtaking. It's so unique with all the rock formations mountains right next to the water. Totally new for me. Do you think you'll come back? Oh, definitely. I just hope that tourism doesn't get so crazy here. The it would be tough to see some of these beautiful views without a lot of people around. He has a point tourist numbers. Multiply Iceland's modest population by a factor of seven, but that's not what keeps Yacob Johansen up at night. He worries that if guides don't focus enough on the environment the tourist experience here will be reduced to physical, candy even. So he recognizes that not everyone comes to Iceland for the same reasons. Just go through some travel agency and say I have this week of where she let go, oh, go to Iceland. Oh, what's that? Okay. It's fine. You don't have to know anything about your destination. It's a human right. But we have this other kind of travelers some of them have been dreaming about ISIS land for years if we do not respect those visitors. We are not respecting our country, our history, our culture, our ecological system. We are not respecting ourself. Iceland's department of tourism says it has no plans to regulate a tour guide business, but some new Brandon could be an order, otherwise this booming island might start to resemble a sub Arctic. Disneyland. Alexa, divorce in D W Reykjavik if you'd like to contact the show, we would love to hear from you. Here's our Email address. It's Europe D W dot com. You can also subscribe to the show on soundcloud, and I tunes this is inside Europe. And I'm Keith Walker in Bonn, Germany. This is inside Europe. I'm Keith Walker in Bonn, Germany, coming up in the next half an hour Austria celebrates one hundred years of being a Republic. Within a decade of the founding of post Republic, those civil war and the early democratic dream, indeed, even the name Austria disappeared as at and national socialism came to. Also coming up. German Chancellor Angela Marco cools for a real European army. But I spoke to the. The, but as we've made big progress achieving a structured cooperation in the military speed up. It's good and we largely supported he that we should work on the vision. I say this very consciously based on the development of recent years to create one day, a true, European Omni. Piazza a me to win folks. Aku Europe's Ryan Haith abide the Markle's comments. Also, Greek universities are plagued with drug addicts. And dealers is graffiti obliged on the landscape or a work of art. They story UN's more coming up. For Bonn jemmy. You're listening inside Europe. This past week. So Australia celebrates one hundred years since I became a Republic actually been to Australian republics the first ending the civil war the Anschluss to Nazi Germany in nineteen thirty eight while the second attempt seems to be doing rather better. Carry Skyring reports from the birthday celebrations in VM. Ninety or average book divan, nor your average day. Potty city the fame to the NFL monocoque strikes the Austrian national anthem in the opera house the audience. Well, just about everyone still living who had a role in the past century of the country's history as well. The invited guests from Israel Jewish Austrians or the descendents who managed to escape the holocaust and school children from across the country. But this is more like a remembrance ceremony that birthday celebration. The music is muted even samba the speeches serious laced with warnings president Alexander Venda Belen, most of them you've Axum saying components loss to Crecy must be vigilant uncompromising towards the intolerance, but open and tolerant to the exchange of pinions among democratic people and that amounts of free and independent media. That's not too veiled reference to recent attacks on the state media by the right wing, Austrian Freedom Party, but the president could also be talking about may bring Hungary or Poland or the United States on the centenary of the Republic. Austria is reminding itself of the short life and bloody end to its first attempt at democracy. Within a decade of the founding of post Republic was civil war and the early democratic dream, indeed, even the name Austria disappeared as adults and national socialism came to Paul. All. That chancellor Sebastian cooks might have been thinking that Teredo of hate from nineteen thirty eight as in two thousand eighteen he tells his audience, then democrat tea held today for onto sheet. Humane house there is no doubt the democracy sustained differing opinions, but our own history has taught us that violence and language can rapidly lead to actual violence. The ceremony showcased music, but it was an Australian opera singer, Margaret plumber who stole the Austrian show. Perhaps Koogle's predictive typing caused an era. What could I searched online fall in Australia metro Surprenant if so it was a happy mistake. There was another Performa at this birthday bash. A woman who fashioned a symphony from words, the Austrian Slovenian writer Maya huddle up delivered the keynote speech special Vanni, but said Nick at a public house through supposed to undergo spy Schmidt Dowa, my greets, the guests in both German and Slovene a reminder that on the day of its founding. The Austrian Republic was a multi-lingual multi-ethnic state. What follows is a literary walk through the century of the Australian Republic, she speaks of alone. Shallow breath of history of how her grandfa- before in the army of the monarchy. And so the empire full to be replaced by the Republic. She's speaks of migration. Globalization digitalization the environment and climate as new unsettling challenges and she wounds against populist solutions, then will provide Netanel list ship a time. Mine didn't win across Europe nationalistic potties tail insecure citizens. They are substitute for the shattered public spirit, offering national identity as a home, then the crisis deepens it is less tangible, but even wolf fundamental than the crisis at the start of the twentieth century run Heine ship political scientist from seltzer. University says Australia has made a success of its second Democratic Republic. But history suggests it's too early to celebrate me the kind of divisions that shape democracies in the rest of Europe and United States are shaping Austra's. Well, it is somewhat awkward that one of the parties in government has to Fisher the represent Austria on several of these suspicious celebrations and the same time. They're awesome accused of for mentoring division, and of representing a spirit that harkens back to darker. Periods in Australian history. So in that sense. I think that explains why the feelings particular jubilant. And that would three piece does seem to sum up. The main sentiment that celebrations to strays Republican century. Carey Skyring DWI. Vienna. You're listening to inside here up. I in Greece are calling for a sweeping nationwide shutdown of state universities across the country. The proposal is to pressure thought as to clean up drug addicts dealers and criminals operating with impunity at stays compasses at sparked controversy under base with leftist governments. And nothing's refusing even discuss Karsava reports the Malays highlights greater decay and Greek education among the worst full ad. So the country's eight year financial crisis shutdown proposal has found unprecedented support from Pademba takes so much. In fact, that professes from across the nation have been phoning into radio and television talk shows here, then taint decades of anger and fear felt because of criminal offenders Lucking on campus grounds in one case. I heard of Seamus slack us a leading geology. Professor who described the situation is so true. Gic and out of control that a passive attempt. He made recently to MIR the address the problem resulted in extremists spray painting death threats on the entrance of his university office more threats have since then followed scaring and silencing attempts to fix Greece's. Decaying? Universities was hit has been a so Ed the country's top business school located in the heart of the capital, Athens, the elicit activities of addicts and dealers have mushroom so much that they've spilled over into surrounding streets tending pockets of the capital into criminal hot spots in symbolic protest, professes and stuff recently walked off the job shutting down the campus for day. Allowing also the authorities to intervene, but nothing happened. No, does it seem likely to when I went there a few days ago. The situation had already taken a ton for the was Pakistan migrant men huddled on almost every compass bench. Selling heroin crack cocaine an Fetterman to us who freely entered an exit the university's grounds used syringes and other drug paraphernalia laid scattered along pathways winding through the compasses tree lined walkways. And as I am bulled in FIA to the south side of. So I saw scores of students maneuvering over an obstacle course of drugged out uses in order to reach the college bookstore to collect textbooks that were being offered for the fall semester. One obstacle included amount of men in Frankel sweaters who lay on the pavement without is coast and their Joel's gyrating. The second off stickle included a woman with gaunt and rice paper skin who wailed at times. Crying for hit. The final obstacle was a group of shabby men. Some of them in flannel. Pajama Bolton's all of them. However, we've seen breaking off twigs from campus. Citrus trees to clean, their crack pipes. Every stew. Isn't an administrator? I spoke to seem scared in shamed of the festering situation. When freshman told me it was haunted. Keep her motivation going entering the university each morning watching addict shooting up heroin or in crystal mess. She said the Malays mirrored Greece's state of decay since the start of the financial crisis. He estate funding of universities has been slashed dramatically so much in fact that a report by the world economic form ranked Greece last in the field of education among list of thirty Vance countries. And that experts say does not bode well for the country's future. In fact, some say it spells Shia catastrophe depression, along with crime, drug and alcohol. Use have skyrocketed dying Greece's, boo. Financial crisis prostitution also. But at the heart of Greece's, chaotic university situation lies the country's controvercial academic asylum. Rules offenders are exploiting contentious law that bans. Lease from setting foot on college Grand's a measure imposed after brutal military junta sent tanks through the gates of the capital's main university too cautious. Student uprising nineteen Seventy-three. The law was scrapped by conservative government in twenty eleven but was quickly reinstated. Last year by the radical left leadership of prime minister, Alexis tsipras that government now is calling the shutdown proposal by academics in obstacle to democracy. Saying liberal thought should be safeguarded not pleased attempts by the authorities this week to merely patrol along the streets Vaso, let extremists to attack a police car. Nearly killing two offices that leave students to affectively fend for themselves as a situation in the university campuses. Deteriorates many students have set up watchdog groups or escort teams, but many have had enough and increasing numbers are thinking of leaving the country altogether student George helpless, put it to me Greece's. Financial meltdown may have ended and the country may be on the road to recovery, but Greece's future his all ready been nosed, and they are savvy d-w Athens. I'm Keith Walker and Bonn, Germany. This is inside Europe. European parliament elections are set to take place in may twenty nineteen. So there's about six months to go to explain more about how all works political editor of politico Europe. And host of the EU confidential podcast Ryan heath is here. Hello, ryan. Great to be with your case. Welcome back to inside Europe. Now, how does this all work the election's? It's complicated to give you a very short answer. So there are seven hundred five seats that are up for grabs in the European parliament. But also the EU needs to do is feel all of the positions in its executive. So the European Commission people like John Young CRA, the president over there at the moment. And also the organization that runs it. Summits. The European Council. It's Donald tusk runs that now and they're also going to replace the European Central Bank next year. So everything is up for grabs and not everybody is on about paper. So you've got people running for this commission president job, but no one's actually able to vote for them. And it's all of those seven hundred and five EMMY as that have to confirm people in these positions. Okay. And the last election was held in may twenty fourteen soul. The lowest voter turnout on record at just forty two and a half percent. Just the public is not very enthusiastic about these European elections. Why is the I think it's because the EU is the furthest from their daily lives. If you are trying to understand change what's going on in your immediate environment Brussels is about as far away as you can imagine and the processes take years and years to complete to to make decisions and to implement laws. So it's very difficult system to engage with I think as well, you have different levels of civil society in different countries across Europe. So if we take the eastern and central European countries, for example, there everage turn out is only twenty eight percent goes down to his lowest thirteen percent in Slovakia. And so for a lot of those countries, they don't have these robust campaigning infrastructures. They're very small. So if you're a vote of it, you sort of frog your shoulders and say, well, hang on, even if it's a landslide in my country. It's moving one or two members of parliament in either direction. What's differences that going to make out of seven hundred? So a lot of people just don't bother to turn up in the first place. Can you talk about the overlap or if there's an overlap between national candidates and European candidates? Yes. Well, I mean, the reality is there isn't a truly European potty what you have is collections of national parties. So for example, the Christian Democrats, the socialists groups of people who have similar opinions, but not identical opinions. They don't take the same campaign platform out there. So it's not the same ten promises that they making all the different voters. And and that makes it very difficult to have any kind of European compensation, and of course, all of these individual members of parliament their elected in either the region or the nation. So it's not like it's one single list across Europe where all of Europe is coming together in the way that it doesn't fact come together for something like the revision content. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, one of the things that we're used to from the over song contest, we can see how that works. But we don't see very many televised debates with the European parliament. What why is that? Well, they did take place for the first time in two thousand and fourteen. There were two televised debates amongst a broad selection of candidates, and then a few others between two of the leading candidates. But that's because you never had a system that was an open selection of the European Commission president before twenty fourteen so that's actually a bit strange because in Europe, they held televised election debates before even the United States, Sweden pioneered it back in nineteen fifty six in Germany. They've done it in nearly every election since the nineteen sixties so Europeans. Have no problems having these debates. They've just never really had the reasonable the mechanism to do at a European level and tool the creation of a system for selecting the European Commission president called the Spitz and candidate system when now. Each of these European parties have to put forward somebody that they would like to nominate for commission president. And then they battle it out in forums like these debates on the Spitsyn kind of why they using German name just I'm just curious one of these kinda that well, they don't want to use anything that suggests you could actually directly vote for these candidates. So the German word implies will the top figures in the party's. We're putting them out there somehow, but we're not promising that you can actually put a number or across next to them on a ballot paper. Speaking of Germans, Angela America was applauded and jeered in Strasbourg on Tuesday after calling for a real true. European army? But I spoke to the we've made big progress achieving structured cooperation in the military speedup. It's good, and we largely supported here that we should work on the vision. I say this very consciously based on the development of recent years to create one day, a true, European Omni. A me too. America said the idea would complement NATO, but she didn't give any details on when the embarrass idea could become reality. When do you see this happening? We've hit the crucial point on the head their case. I think I say this happening well off to underline mocal is no longer the chancellor of Germany, what she was able to do with this speech was very impressive statement, but not actually spend any political capital or make any specific promises. And I think that's what a manual Macron. And other leaders were actually looking for. They would have loved to see a short term or medium term promise from under local or some kind of big compromise around something to do with the single euro currency instead while they was very long-term vague commitment. It was a vision. But it's not going to be something angle was going to be responsible for. So in shows, you how weak she is domestically in Germany at the moment and people who want to build that bigger. More federal Europe. They're going to have to be waiting awhile yet. Okay. Ryan. Hey. Thanks, very much political editor of political Europe. And host of the EU confidential podcast. Thanks a lot. Thank you. I'm Keith Walker in Bonn, Germany. You're listening to inside Europe. Millions of baby boomers are set to retire in the next few years by twenty twenty this shift could force up to a quarter of small and medium sized businesses and Germany's close that's if they don't find someone younger to take over the reins, Tony Andrews visited a small family run business and Berlin the faces closure if they cannot find air from the next generation. My name is Michael Lenhart. I own this store together with my wife. I'm standing just over billions famous shopping street coffee them. This is where the owner small retail outlet cold, Hotoke, which sells clothing and excess Sary's the street is very swanky tourists carrying shopping bags from designer brands bustle about there's about three blocks of Gucci, Prada, etc. As immediate neighbors. It would be hard to overstate the importance of small companies like this Germany, according to a report by the Federal Bureau of statistics, they make up ninety nine percent of all businesses in Germany. So if many of these families style businesses run out of family members that could result in a big reduction in the labor market after all according to the same report small and medium-sized businesses employ sixty one percent of the workforce, many of these businesses feeling the demographic pinch in Berlin alone around three thousand artisans are looking for someone to continue their work. We want to sell the company again after having run the company eight years before the lesnar the previous owners had been running the store since nineteen thirty six so they wouldn't want to give it to just anyone. We would much rather shut the door than give it to someone who will not do Justice to. To the eighty year tradition. One of the ways the government is trying to address the problem is by setting up a kind of online dating service for businesses the bad form called next change matches mature established companies with young and sprightly entrepreneurs the liens placed an ad on the side and only got a few replies here and there maybe one response per month. But none of them lead to anything substantial possible deterrent was the significant up front costs involved in order to run your own retail store, you have to consider investing about one hundred thousand euros. What a lot of young people don't realize though, is that if they bought an established business like this one that would be able to generate income from the very first day. They could be eligible for significant credit at decent interest rates a business. Like this a proven business can be financed. Almost ninety percent. I asked Michael. Describe his ideal by to me a little like one does on a dating site. A perfect match is quite frankly, someone who's gay because there's a certain understanding of fashion design and so on. Michael smiles a little as he says that the and so do I because though his expectation is a little stereotypical. That's what all dating eventually mount to write reducing people two types and trying to find a match based on that. And like dating not finding a match has generational implications. As you may know, Germany is wealthy because of our medium sized family owned companies and every second company is in danger because there's no successor that interview took place in twenty sixteen. I recently returned to Michael's retail outlet to see how things panned out for him. This all started last year. I of Tober at Tobin Paul the new owner of the store, I took over from the Lynn hat couple who retired. So the lesnar had found someone, but it wasn't through a website. They actually had met toilet through the business because he'd also worked in the retail industry. No, I think it always helps if you if you get to know each other and we knew each other before. So there was always a sympathy. Tobin says it's been going well over the past seven months, and he's not as daunted as thought he would be by the big amount of debt. He went into to buy the business half customers who been shopping at. Mrs heart talks store, the the founder, and now they are not old and keep still returning is ability of the brand is a source of encouragement for him. If I'd opened a new store, it would be hard way hard because you need to attract customers, and you need to find your way. And this year was pretty much set. I tell Tobin about what the lesnar had told me two years ago about their ideal candidate. And he blush is a little said, quote, a court is single is gay any loves fashion. Okay. I don't I never heard that before I'm not much into fashion, but I can relate to the first two topics. So single is helpful. I don't know about the gay part, but it comes with a sense of design skills. So yeah, that comes in handy terminals, not just been maintaining the status quo though. He's also added his own modernisations, creating an online store, of course, that's necessary. And that wasn't there before. So this is part of bringing the store to the future in general. The situation seems to have worked out for everyone. The previous owners fillet nuts. Having just retired spent a few months soaking up the sun in Spain. And the new owner Toben says he's happy with the situation as well. Virk king on your own is hard. But it's actually. What I was looking for for years, and I can really recommend it for DWI in Berlin, Germany, I'm Tony Andrews. I'm Keith Walker and Bonn Germany from the studios of Germany's international broadcaster, D w this inside Europe. Graffiti, it's usually considered a blight on the urban landscape and historical monuments, and it's not often you come across graffiti, everyone approves of. But as we hear from Donnie met smile in this postcard from the Italian city of bologna, a reputable publishing. Highs is redefining how we say graffiti established over one hundred fifty years ago, publishes, Donna Kelley, usually focus on printing educational textbooks, science, manuals and dictionaries. They're -talian language dictionaries one of the most respected in the country. So it was quite surprised to hear they tend the hand to graffiti with a campaign, they've called lack who touristy faster, the idea is to bring culture onto the streets and to do so they've chosen to write on pavements instead of wolves. But before you shake your heads in outrage disgust, we talking green graffiti everything's written in a mix of yogurt and choke substances which will fade and wash away after two weeks causing no harm to the environment. In the meantime, Santa Kelly can get on with a cunning plan. They've defined as urban education. The graffiti of being appearing on the streets of cheer in Milan. Naples and Padua fifty and h city with the aim of promoting linguistic awareness. They feature Italian words, which the publishes say need saving. What's it risk of disappearing because nobody uses them anymore and examples of rhetorical device? Ices like hyperbole and Unimat appear. Then there are false friends. Those words that sound like a word in your language, but means something completely different. And foreign words that can't be translated like the German fan or the Japanese who. No, I'm not even going to try the ingenious strategy of putting the graffiti on the pavement was chosen because people today tend to walk looking down glued to their smartphones. Monitoring their social media Gianluca aura demand behind the campaign says he'd seen at vets choked on the pavement outside chips in Milan and found it an effective way of getting people's attention. So sunny Kelly tried it out loss year with mathematical formulae written in front of schools. The response was so good. They decided to launch a more universal campaign. This year less about tanking more about hashtag ING that Twitter and Instagram accounts have been buzzing with compliments and requ. Wests to bring tourists faster. Two of the towns here in medieval bologna, terra cotta colored buildings are routinely defaced with ugly, black scrolls. So perhaps it's no coincidence that a positive graffiti campaign was the brainchild of a historic Bala. Nays publishing house a sort of antidote to anti-culture done quite simply by playing them at their own game Donnie madman for DWI Radia in bologna said for today the program is produced withheld from Helen Seaney. The scientific nation is yoga and Koon. And I'm Keith Walker. Thank you for listening. You can also subscribe to the pub cast of the show on SCI, CLYDE. And I tunes inside Europe comes to from Germany's international broadcaster, they w in ball.

Europe Germany European Union Keith Walker Iceland Bonn United States president European parliament Bill Browder Brussels European Commission Poland chancellor Donald tusk Austrian Republic Greece European army
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02:27 min | 2 years ago

Russian Police General Poised To Become Next President Of Interpol

"Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from internet essentials from Comcast. Connecting more than six million low income people to low cost high speed internet at home. So students are ready for homework class graduation and more. Now, they're ready for anything the international police organization INTERPOL has been without a chief since October. That's when its president a Chinese law enforcement official was first reported missing. He then resigned as he came under investigation by China's anti corruption authority now his likely replacement is a Russian police general as NPR's Lucian Kim reports from Moscow his name is Alexander Procup took a general in the Russian police force who already serves his Interpol's vice president for Europe some of President Vladimir Putin's most vocal critics oppose his candidacy as Interpol's President Bill Browder says Putin Woody festively gained control of INTERPOL to put his Representative in charge of the most important international crime fighting organization. Is like putting the mafia in charge Browner used to be a successful fund manager in Russia, but became a Kremlin critic after the death of his lawyer Sergei Magnitsky in a Moscow prison broader pushed the US congress to pass the Magnitsky act which sanctions human rights offenders and corrupt officials Russian. Authorities have since tried repeatedly to get Browder arrested by INTERPOL on Tuesday. Browder held a press conference in London with another Putin opponent. Exiled oil tycoon, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, year, shitty or suppose store. Euroco ski centers Interpol's new chief Prokop shook would follow orders from the Kremlin. But the job of INTERPOL president is to a large extent symbolic day-to-day executive functions. Are carried out by the secretary general who is currently German get David Clarke, a former adviser to Britain's foreign office says Procup chokes election would still be significant. He's there is symbolically important. And it also changed the dynamic of the way the organization was. On Monday for you senators urge the Trump administration to oppose Procup tricks candidacy. Ninety other Weber. Putin spokesman Dmitry peskov told reporters, the senators action was proof that Washington was trying to interfere in the INTERPOL election. Procup took has only one competitor in her pulse. Senior vice president from South Korea the organizations one hundred ninety four member nations will elect their next president tomorrow. Lucienne Kim NPR news Moscow.

INTERPOL President Vladimir Putin president Alexander Procup Bill Browder Senior vice president vice president Putin Woody festively Comcast Kim NPR Moscow Mikhail Khodorkovsky Sergei Magnitsky NPR Lucian Kim Moscow Dmitry peskov China Europe Browner
In Putins Russia There Are No Good Guys

Stansberry Investor Hour

00:00 sec | 6 months ago

In Putins Russia There Are No Good Guys

"Broadcasting from the investor our studios and all around the world. You're listening to the stands berry investor our to each Thursday on itunes. Google play and everywhere you find podcasts. For the latest episodes of the stands Berry investor our sign up for the free show archive at investor our DOT COM. Here's your host Dan Ferris. Hello and welcome to the stands Berry investor our. I'm your host Dan Ferris. I'm also the editor of extreme value published by stands Berry Research. Today's program is very interesting. Our guest today is bill browder. He's got unbelievable story to tell you will not wanna miss this one. We have some really great emails today to share listener. Bill has a great question about a very important principle for anybody interested in holding gold for the long-term. I'll help them refresh his memory about it and as always my rant. I'll talk about some of the topics covered by Warren Buffett at Berkshire Hathaway shareholder meeting last Saturday. That and more right now on the stands berry investor our okay. Let's talk about Warren Buffett and his comments at the Berkshire hathaway meeting. He talked for over four hours so I might not be able to get to everything in fact. I'm just going to get to a few topics that really stood out. And this is by the way. If you haven't listened to it you can go listen to it just Google Berkshire Hathaway shareholder meeting yacht. Yahoo Finance has it and you can find it on Youtube. And it's worth it. It's worth listening to Warren Buffett. Talk for four hours. Once a year it really is even if you disagree with every syllable that comes out of his mouth. It's still worth listening to. So I think one of the really big perhaps the biggest topic that he covered couple of weeks ago he became public that he started selling his position in the Airlines. And he put one slide up the beating that showed the first quarter purchases of equity securities by Berkshire hathaway including buying back their own stock but they made investments in equities of fourbillion. They sold two point two billion of equities and they bought back a billion seven of their own stock not really huge numbers for Berkshire but then he put up a slide. That showed in the month of April because the first quarter ends March thirty first right month of April purchases of equity securities. Four hundred twenty six million peanuts nothing for Berkshire. He was asked about it. He couldn't even remember what it was and he said I might not have done. It might have been you know. His his top capital allocation lieutenants. Ted In todd. He bought bags zero stock. We'll talk about that in a little bit and sold in the month of April alone. Six and a half billion including all the rest of the airline stocks okay. Why did he do this? Well he he put up a slide and he said you know it was not one hundred percent that's six and a half billion was not one hundred percent of what we sold in April. But you knows mostly mostly airlines said. I made a mistake and he went through the history of the position and if you look at the filings. He started buying these things in late. Two Thousand Sixteen. He said we paid. Oh I don't know seven or eight. Billion couldn't even remember how much to own ten percent of the four largest airlines starting at that time and then into two thousand seventeen you kept by and he figured that for seven or eight billion. He was getting a billion dollars worth of earnings that he thought was likely to go up over time and at that time he did an interview with. Becky quick of CNBC. And he said the airlines have had a bad century and they've had like over one hundred bankruptcies and it's been terrible and they've consolidated into four big ones. That are doing pretty well etcetera etcetera. And you know we want a piece of it and those four those top four American United Delta and southwest accounted for like eighty percent of the domestic airline capacity. So right there. It sort of felt to him. It seems like when he bought the railroads who had been through. I don't know about a difficult century. But yeah pretty pretty tough time over the past decades before he bought and then turned into a pretty good bet because they had consolidated down they had been through restructurings same type of a situation and they had some pricing power to and I remember hearing about that idea from the guys at allegany well run insurance company PUBLICLY COMPANY TICKER SYMBOL. Why the letter? Y and was by when Burlington northern was like I don't know twelve bucks a share or share or something like that maybe even cheaper and Buffett bought the whole thing of Burlington northern for one hundred dollars a share so late to the party but still thought it was a good bet and same thing he said we treated it mentally as if we were buying a business meaning as we were buying one hundred percent of a whole business and if you've heard him talk over the years they liked to buy one hundred percent of the business they liked by as much as they can once they liked to sing and like the hold it forever. That's their favorite thing to do. And you know this look like an equity position that he might hold effectively forever and he said you know the companies were well managed and all that stuff but now he blew out the whole position when the whole world he sold into weakness right. This is the guy who says be greedy when others are fearful while he's fearful when others are fearful because he's not buying anything and he sold this massive position and is not spending any of his giant hundred and thirty billion dollar pile of cash. So that's kind of unusual. And he said the airline business. I'll just quote a few little things he says. The airline Business Blah Blah Blah. I think it changed in a very major way is obviously changed. And he said these four companies are going to borrow tenor. Twelve billion. Each in some cases they're having to sell stock or the right to buy stock that takes away from the upside then a little bit after that he said. I don't know the two three years from now. That people will fly as many passenger miles as they did last year. In Twenty nineteen so in other words this business has changed so much and these companies are so deeply impaired that it makes no sense for him to continue to hold the equities. He's held things through bet. He's a publicly traded companies through bankruptcy. At least one right. Us G it was an unusual bankruptcy situation. So this really tells you. The buffet thinks that people have changed their their travel. Habits have changed and they're not gonna fly as much even when things are all opened up and who knows one would think over this time period. He's talking about two three years. Whatever that the corona virus will be a thing of the past? Nobody's worrying about it anymore. You know we'll see but I just thought it was really interesting that you know we find buffet just being really fearful not deploying capital and blowing out this position into weakness having bought it in the first place. I've never recommended an airline stock in extreme value. And I never will and I was shocked when he did it and I always wonder like how how going to work out but you know obviously not too well so the airlines and I here where he's coming from because the airlines I read today. One article said they're burning ten billion monthly as as an industry. And you know they've already gotten something like fifty billion and bail out. There's another there's more money that they're going after under this. Cares Act Law. That was passed but united like they got five billion bucks and only one and a half billion. That was alone. The other three and a half billion was a grant grant. Yeah you've heard me money. Just taxpayer money just given to the airlines. And of course they put stipulations on this thing but they've already found the loophole and the stipulation was. You can't fire anybody you gotTa keep all your employees and you can't reduce anybody's hourly pay or you can't reduce anybody salary right and I think you can't even buy back stock and other things. But they found a loophole. And you might have heard it already. And they're reducing people's hours. They don't pay them less per hour but they pay them less by reducing their hours which you know as a business move makes sense with dramatically reduced demand for this service but I can understand how nobody would want to get involved with the airlines. Who knows if the equity value is going to be anything like what it is right now impaired as it is. Let's talk about buybacks? Buffet talked about buybacks. He didn't buy back any shares in April at all they bought back a billion seven in the first quarter which is really nothing for them and basically the important tidbit here. Is that the stock to him. He says was no more compelling around two hundred and fifty thousand share than it was when he was buying it back at three hundred thousand share. What does that mean? Well it means exactly what you think. It means. It means the intrinsic value of Berkshire Hathaway's impaired at least that amount like roughly seventeen percent. I believe that is so or more bright. If it's not compelling at either a at two hundred fifty thousand no more so than than it was thirty or three hundred thousand. That's a big deal. And he also mentioned in the same breath telling you why he wasn't buying the shares back in the same breath. He mentioned the option value of cash. Right I it other words. I'd rather hold onto my cash than by back my stock seventeen percent off where I was buying back before. Wow so he did this whole thing. He started out with this whole long thing about never bet against America and he went all through history and all this stuff and he's got a great knowledge of history. It was fun to listen to it but he says all this stuff about don't bet against America in the long term and that was another thing he kept doing. Saint don't bet against long-term but he constantly throughout his talk and answering questions. He was constantly differentiating from the long term. Bet and the nearer term couple years to three years. What does that tell you that tells you that? He thinks that we are not out of the woods yet. And you can't call him barish but he's nothing like bullish. Some investors Whitney Tilson commented. He was part of the presentation and he commented said you know he went and he thought it was raining. Gold in March when the market was getting absolutely obliterated buffet obviously did not think it was raining. Gold Okay. That's really interesting. So they bought by zero in April. You know. That's that's the evidence there he said I would rather be holding my cash. And he also talked about the general idea of buying back stock because he was asked about it one of the shareholders sentence a question about it and he framed it in a really good way that. I think I think you need to hear about. He said imagine that we were just partners. In a business you know fuel vessel. Each put in a certain amount of money in the business does well over time and goes up in value and you know after many years of success one of us wants to take money out of the business. Well if your partner came to send that you say well. That's perfectly reasonable and a way to do that would be for the other partners to buy a little bit of stake and so you know. Maybe he owns thirty three percent. Let's say there are three of you and and he sells a little bit and after that hill own thirty percent or something and you you know then you'll each own a little bit more right. So that's the way he looks at share repurchases as an individual partner can choose. An individual shareholder can choose. Whether or not they WANNA participate and sell the shares whereas if he issued a dividend. It's you're forcing cash down everyone's throat and they get hit with taxes and you're taking money out of the business off the table right. I thought that was pretty interesting. And he's like he doesn't buy any of the political what he calls political correctness about share repurchases. He's a most people do them wrong. He said that consistently for a long time. You have to do them right and the right way to do it is the buy it back in a discount to the intrinsic value and he even said. You won't always be right when you're doing that. You'll make mistakes and doing that but you should still do it that way. And the steak is probably you know. He bought it back at a higher price. A billion seven worst and then he refused buy back in a lower price so he might have even talk about his own mistake and buying shares back but over time the right thing to do is buy it back at a discount. And you know you'll be right enough. If you do it over a period of many years I found all that really intriguing. Him telling US why he didn't buy back the stock and he mentioned specifically that he said you know for example. The airline position is is worth a lot less than it was just as one example and of course you know the whole economy shutdown. He's got dozens and dozens of businesses under one roof. There has to be more impairment than just that and the part that isn't impaired is the cash it's arguably worth more right so it makes it's all making sense now isn't it. Yes another topic. He covered which I found fascinating. It's a fascinating topic anyway. And he said that he thinks it's the most interesting question he's ever seen in economics period and that is the issue of negative interest rates. And somebody wrote in a question they were like. What the Heck can you buy? I mean do you really want to be holding? Stocks interest rates are going to be negative and his first thing out of his mouth was. He's not if they're going to be negative for a long time. You better own equities or something other than dead of course you can own stocks when interest rates are negative and it's not a terrible thing but he freely admits he's like I have no idea we have no idea what the ultimate outcome is. He says we're doing things where we don't know the ultimate outcome but there would have been extreme consequences that we know of if we didn't do them like extremely low and and in some cases in Europe and Japan negative interest rates is what he's talking about there and you know he even referred at one point in his presentation he referred to Mario Draghi. Saying you know we'll do whatever it takes and he said well you know the Federal Reserve in in March. They started doing whatever it takes. Squared right even a lot of whatever it takes he just Kinda left. It open ended like he has no idea how this is going to turn out ultimately for anyone and then he I think he only mentioned it once the whole time and he mentioned during his negative interest rate spiel and he said I was wrong. Thinking that you could have the developments you've had without inflation. Taking hold meaning he would have thought that surely negative interest rates would inspire lots of capital to be misallocated and push up asset prices of all kinds and make its way into the economy and push up wages. Push up lots of other stuff but he was wrong about the as all as we all were. And of course you and I we. We've we've had this discussion between the two of us. People have written in and I've talked about it. And we've had several guests on the program who explained it to US folks like you know markdown. And Colin Roach and others. In the sort of macro category of investor. The macro investors have been helpful to to us with this. So I found that really interesting that like you know Colin Roach gets better than buffet of it's still waiver. Inflation from negative interest rates and low interest rate policy in quantitative easing all the rest of it and color roaches. Like no no no. No so yeah. Negative interest rates very interesting topic buffets got basically nothing for us about it and the topic of inflation kind of was broached. Little Bit with a question about their capital intensive businesses the railroads are very capital intensive and the the energy business basically a giant energy utility that the on is very capital intensive and he said you know the returns over time might not even be good in terms in inflation adjusted terms but and he said just take an extreme example. If ten to one inflation you we will earn a lot more dollars from the railroad and the energy business you know the returns might not be great but we will learn a lot more dollars from the meaning you know they will adjust upward and inflation will be will not treat them too badly but he said overtime we want businesses that require no capital to grow. And you know we don't want inflation. That would be really bad. I found that interesting too because and I think I may have even written about somewhere over the years. I just found it interesting that that Buffett was getting into these capital-intensive businesses and I thought well maybe he's preparing for inflation. Maybe that's the message that we need to take away from that. And certainly he's as prepared as you can get running the kind of conglomerate that he's running he's as prepared as you can get for inflation. I think but it's probably unfair to say that he bought them for that reason. I think that's what he might say. Anyway I don't know if I believe but I think that's what he might say. You know I I just have to mention this guy on the topic of inflation. If you don't mind a little little digression here. I saw this piece in the news today. I think he's a history. Professor named Roberts Cadel Ski. Says he's afraid that we're GONNA have a big jolt of inflation from stimulus money and from people getting back to work. I don't even know what to say. It's so dumb. I can't even believe anyone said it out loud. You know thirty million people out of work. Shut down the global economy that's as depressive and deflationary as it gets and he's worried that a little bit of stimulus money and people get back to work inflation. It's insane. It's truly insane. This is a massive massive deflationary event. The fear to be and the reason why you'd expect goal to go up along with the value of dollars. Is that the Federal Reserve tries to print and the government tries to borrow. Its way out of this and they print and bar imprint bar imprint borrow and it gets really bad and and asset prices start inflating and then it works its way into wages and prices and things that is the rational version of that fear. Just saying you know on the face of it that people are still somebody is going to. Gaza flation is just looney tunes and in the end. I just want to say one more thing before I finish here. In the end he was talking about the virus. Buffa talked all about the virus and the implications of that. You can go listen to it yourself but what I see right now. Is that Scott? Garlick from stanbury has a little thread about this he's been sort of updating US internally and talking about it he runs the stands berry news wire and basically the virus and the reopening narrative right now is kind of driving the stock market. He he pays attention to this stuff on a daily basis. Very Smart Guy. He's very in tune with the narrative and its influence on asset prices. So if Scott has this right and I think he does we get the market rising and it has risen sharply off that bottom in late March. We get the market rising when a narrative that says things are reopening. And that's really good. Well I think when things reopened everybody kind of mixes back together in a lot. More people get the virus and we get a little spike resurgence of some kind. Maybe I'm not saying this is definite but this could easily happen. And then that narrative will go into reverse and then what happens to the stock market after its blistering? What twenty odd percent almost twenty five percent rally or so off that March bottom blistering classic type Bear Market Rally Action? Maybe we see another draw down here into the summer. You know they say sell in. May Go away. Maybe maybe that's GonNa come into play here. I don't know I'm not predicting but I think to believe hey. The stock market took a dive here. And we all got worried bubble reopening. Everything's GonNa be fine. I don't think that's how it works. So I understand buffets caution. I'm cautious too. But I think there are still things to do and we're GONNA do one of them in the pages of extreme value this week and readers will find out about that but yeah it's a time to be cautious. I agree I'm GonNa Leave Your right there. I have no idea how out and I'm cautious. And that's that so. The next thing we want to do is talk to an extraordinarily interesting guy named bill browder. Don't get left behind in America's wealth gap. We all know. It's growing faster than ever. But you don't have to be on the outside looking in for the first time. Ever one of America's most successful multimillionaires has gone on camera to explain the gap and the three steps to take right now to get on the right side of the trend. Find out who it is and get the facts now about how this new economy works. Watch this important video for free and learn the three important steps to take right now go online growing wealth gap DOT COM VISIT GROWING WEALTH GAP DOT COM now. Today's guest is bill browder. Bill Browder is the founder and CEO of Hermitage capital management which was the investment advisor to the largest foreign investment fund in Russia until two thousand five when bill was denied entry to the country and declared quote a threat to national security as a result of his battle against corporate corruption following his expulsion the Russian authorities raided his offices seized hermitage funds investment companies. And use them to steal two hundred and thirty million dollars of taxes that the companies had previously paid when browder lawyer. Sergei magnitsky investigated the crime. He was arrested by the same officers. He implicated tortured for three hundred and fifty eight days and killed in custody at the age of thirty seven in November. Two thousand nine since then. Browder has spent the last five years fighting for justice for Mr Magnitsky the Russian government exonerated and even promoted some of the officials involved so browder took the case to America where his campaigning led to the US Congress. Adopting the Sergei Magnitsky rule of Law Accountability Act of two thousand twelve which imposed visa sanctions and asset freezes on those involved in the detention ill-treatment and death of Sergei Magnitsky as well as in other human rights abuses this law was the first time the US sanction Russia in thirty five years and became the model for all subsequent US sanctions against Russia. Browder is currently working to have similar legislation. Passed in Magnitsky's name across the European Union. Bill browder welcome to the program Sir. Great to be here so bill. Of course we will get talking about the big topic that I suppose. Everyone wants to speak with you about but before we do that. I did read your book which I found your book read notice which I recommend to our listeners. It was really an excellent thrilling. You know in all the wrong ways story but maybe before you Gotta. You know all the events in the book. How old were you when you first realized that finance was going to be your career direction. I was pretty young It came my my ambitions Came about from a very unusual Set of circumstances I I come from a family of American Communists. My my grandfather Earl browder was the head of the Communist Party of the United States of America from nineteen thirty two to nineteen forty five. He ran for President Against Roosevelt as a Communist nineteen thirty six and nineteen forty He he was imprisoned in nineteen. Forty one pardoning forty forty-two Expelled from the Communist Party and forty five and then ultimately persecuted viciously by during the McCarthy era nineteen fifties and so when I was going through my teenage rebellion. I was trying to figure out the best way of rebelling from this family of Communists and I came up with this great idea which was to put on a suit in time. Become a capitalist and I became a capitalist You know the age of Seventeen And eventually found my way To Stanford Business School in nineteen eighty seven graduating in nineteen eighty-nine which was the year of the Berlin Wall came down and as I was trying to figure out what to do. Coast business school and as a PIFF UNIE. Which is that. My grandfather was the biggest communist in America. I tried to become the biggest capitalist in eastern Europe and and that led me to London and it ultimately led me to Solomon Brothers which doesn't exist anymore but is a famous Was a very famous Wall Street firm. Probably the most famous Wall Street firm Immortalized IN A book called. Liar's poker which I recommend everyone read if they ha- if you haven't read it already and And that's what I am became a Financier that's what I'm Kim financier focused on Eastern Europe and that led me to the all the other dramas of my life. Yes and and those. Drums are really quite substantial. Let's talk about before the time just before. I'm curious about something here. Build a time just before you were expelled from Russia. In two thousand five and it. Just in retrospect when I look back at that really took you by surprise and I suppose it took lots of other people by surprise because against all expectation. It's at least as far as a provincial guy. Like me is concerned. Put it that way. You stage successful activist campaigns against corporate corruption. Not In the United States but in Russia of all places. I would have guessed that you wouldn't have survived. That then gotten as far as you did. Well it was it was It was an odd set of circumstances again and what so what happened was after Solomon. I left Solomon Brothers. I moved to Moscow. Ninety six I set up an investment fund called the Hermitage Fund. I started with almost no assets under management bit eventually became the largest investment fund in the country were four and a half billion dollars under management and in the process of doing my investments I discovered that every single company that I was investing in and these were all publicly traded mostly oil and gas companies view metals companies few other. Bits and pieces all publicly traded. I discovered all these companies were were basically being robbed blind by the managements and the oligarchs who controlled the companies and so let's say I own one percent of a company. I didn't really have one percent anything. 'cause the oligarch who owned fifty one percent of the company was literally siphoning one hundred percent of the prophets out the back door for his own benefit and so. I decided to try to challenge that corruption to fight the corruption. And I didn't have a lot of tools at my disposal It wasn't like you could go to the Russian. Sec and say look look at these terrible things you need to prosecute somebody because Russian sec. Neither prosecuting anybody or even have the ability to and it couldn't go to the police. I couldn't go to parliament. I couldn't go to anywhere But the one interesting lever that I had was that I was good at doing research I was. I had a good team of investment analysts and I knew a lot of journalists in Moscow and so we would research how they went about stealing the money and it wasn't as opaque as you might think Russia's incredibly Bureaucratic country and all the bureaucracy gathers information and keeps it somewhere. We just needed to figure out where they kept it eventually. We found out where they kept the information so we were able to like figure out who was doing the stealing how they were doing the stealing when they were doing the ceiling where it was going to and then we take that information and I would share it with journalists that I had met in new and of course journalists. Love me because I saved them three months of their own work by doing this analysis for them and they would publish the stories and it turned out that when we started publishing these stories and exposing the oligarchs we are doing it at a at a really weird opportune moment. Which was the moment that Vladimir Putin had come to power he was fighting with the same guys we were fighting with the oligarchs were stealing power from him at the same time as they were stealing money from us and so and I and I should point out never met Vladimir Putin never spoken to him in my life either nor now or anytime in between but this was one of these Set where your enemy's enemy is your friend so Vladimir Putin was busy fighting with the oligarchs because they were stealing power from him I was fighting the groups to their ceiling money for me and so every time I come up with one of these scandals he would step in in some kind of very heavy handed way in. Stop them from doing what they were doing. And so for for a period of time I had the most golden life you could ever imagine because I was cleaning up Russia. I was making money for my clients and myself hand over fist And I was doing it in a much more powerful way than anyone could have ever envisaged because why would some some guy from the south side of Chicago have all this to get Putin to do stuff but just turn out to be this weird confluence of interest but the problem was that Putin wasn't doing this too because he wanted to make Russia better place? Putin was doing this. He wanted to defeat the oligarchs and so he decided to go for broke at the end of two thousand and three in October of two thousand three the richest man in Russia Manley Mikhail Khodorkovsky who owned the oil company. Yukos he was on his private jet just landed in in Syria on his way to some business meetings for oil company. His jet was surrounded by a bunch of secret policeman from Russia's FSB which is the successor organization to the KGB. They arrested him. They brought him back to Moscow. They put him on trial and they allow the television cameras. Come into the courtroom and filled the richest guy in Russia on trial sitting in a cage. And this had a profound impact on the other oligarchs AB- Russia thought to themselves. Wait a second. I don't WanNa go sitting in that cage and so they went to Putin in the summer of two thousand four after Horta. Kofsky was convicted and sentenced to ten years in prison and they said to him since Vladimir Putin Vladimir what are we have to do so we don't have to sit in a cage it Putin said real simply fifty percent not fifty percent for the Russian government not fifty percent for the presidential administration Russia but fifty percents Vladimir Putin at that moment Putin became the richest man in the world and at that moment all of my interests were no longer in confluence with is But in opposition and as I continue to expose corruption Instead of going through his enemies is going after his own personal financial interests. And that was the that was the lead up to November fifth Two thousand five as I was That was the lead up to November thirteenth. Two thousand five. As I was flying back to Russia I was stopped at the border. I was detained in the airport. Detention Center arrested and put in the airports inch center Kept Their fifteen hours and then deported the next day. Fifteen hours later and declared a threat to national security. Wow before you in the. I don't know that just the days leading up to to that moment. Did you get an inkling that something was up or did you? Did you see the this meeting with Putin as real potential problem or did this just blindside you? Well Am. I wasn't trying to read. The tea leaves For for one simple reason because if I had spent my whole life trying to read the tea leaves I would have never gone to Russia in the first place. I mean everything of at every quarter there was like Absolute sort of danger and menace and so the only way that I could survive. Psychologically doing what I was doing was effectively having to search standoff my Risks Sensors in my on my risk antenna so that I disturbed barreled through life and so I was spending my time to figure out what was going to be happening. When moment is I didn't see anything coming. It was a total and absolute surprise to me when when I was detained arrested. Detained and deported. You spent fifteen hours just in a cell at the airport so they put me in the cell the airport tension center and I didn't know at that point whether I was being Arrested or deported. Nobody told me why what had happened. They were communicating with me. I was just a detainee. As far as there is there concern and You know I thought well you know. Maybe I've been pushing things to hardier Russia God I sure hope that they don't send me to Siberia and and if I was in so the psychot- my but my thinking at the time was if they're going to be deporting me. They would deport me back to London and the flight back to London. The next day was at eleven. Am I flight back to London and so I thought to myself At about nine thirty in the morning after sitting up there all night. If they're going to deport me they're gonNA come and get me mad nine thirty for an eleven o'clock flight because surely they're going to have to like you know whatever process my papers would do whatever one does and in one of these deportations situations and so. I as are banging on the bars at nine thirty Trying to get their attention to like. Take me to process me. Or whatever they're gonNA do and the officers beyond the Cell just ignored me and now that that's not good and So about ten o'clock I decided to serve make similar and they continue to ignore me and and I'm starting to get really nervous. I think okay. Well I'm not going to be deported going. Siberia and Ten fifteen comes round still nothing ten thirty on at this point with adrenaline is really pumped through my veins. Something Oh my God you know I could be locked up for the next ten or fifteen years entertained forty still nothing is like ten forty five or so they come into the cell grabbed me at this point. I think they're grabbing me to take me for the paddy wagon down to the courthouse to them. You know charge me and send me off to Siberia stabbed. They grabby. Frogmarch meet the airplane. There was no data processing or paper processing at all. They just threw me onto the airplane. That MIDDLE SEAT. That was emptied threw into the seat. And I didn't have my passport at this point but I wasn't GonNa Complain. I Wanna I figured out what I when I got to London. I would figure out what to do when I got London but I I just wanted to get out of there. And and when the plane took off I don't know if you've ever watched the movie argo. There's a great scene at the end of Argo where a bunch of Canadian diplomats trying to get out of Iran and And when we took off I had the same feeling of just absolute total relief. Which was you know whatever's going to happen next at least. It's not GonNa be happening to me in a Siberian prison. Well that is harrowing. So this thing totally blindsided you and you have this awful experience getting thrown out of the country for fifteen hours and your lawyer. Sergei magnitsky he seems in a way to have been blindsided to rarely have I seen in my life a story of someone who stood on principle literally to the moment of his death and and endured such horror and never recanted. I mean this guy. He's like one of the great heroes of of the century. Just on that alone and my question I guess bill is. It's similar to my question about you know. Did you see any of this coming like that? Ability to stand on principle is you know it's it's kind of one thing in a typical western country but it's another in a place like Russia as well. It's I I haven't seen a lot of principle in the west either. It's it's very unusual in any in any situation. So Sergei Magnitsky was my lawyer after I was expelled from the country First thing we did was evacuated my My staff which include my lawyer because he worked for a foreign law firm and we we liquidated our portfolio which we were able to successfully do without any strangely without any trouble so we got people out. Got Our money out and I thought that was the end of the story However it wasn't eighteen months after I was expelled on June fifth. Two thousand seven twenty five police officers raided my office in Moscow and twenty five more police officers raided the office of the American law firm that I used in Moscow and they were specifically looking for the stamps steel seals certificates for our investment holding companies. That were at at this point were empty. But authorities didn't know that they found them the law firm they seize them from the law firm and the next thing we know we no longer own investment holding companies. They've been fraudulently reregistered using the documents seized by the police and reregistered into the name of a man who had been convicted of manslaughter and let out of jail early with his name on the documents. This point I'm not worried about. I'm not worried about money because our money is safe in the West. But I'm worried that if the police are using killers And seek stealing company's Some day I'm going to be flying through some airports somewhere and be arrested on a Russian warrant and I needed to find a way to to Tangled as mess. Figure out what they were trying to do. Who's doing it and stop it so I didn't find myself in some world legal trouble in the future and so I go on. Hire the smartest lawyer I knew in Russia. A young man named Sergei Magnitsky and Sergei worked for the American law firm that was rated and he was one of these credible people who could do like ten things in the time it took others to do one and I asked him to investigate figure out what they were doing and why they were doing it and stop it is. The surrogate goes out figures. It all out and he comes back to me and says there were two parts of the scam. The first part was they wanted to steal all of your assets that you successfully got your money out for. They could do that. He said however there a second part of the scam. Was that when you got your money out of the previous year when we sold everything. We had a billion dollars a prophet and we paid two hundred. Thirty million dollars of capital gains tax to the Russian government would surrogate figured out. Was that the people who stole our companies went to the tax authorities while the twenty third of December two thousand seven two days before Christmas and they said to the tax authorities. There is a mistake made in the previous year's tax filing these companies didn't make billion dollars. They made zero may came up with a complicated way of explaining that therefore they said the two hundred thirty million dollars taxes that was paid in the previous year was paid an error and they said we want the two hundred thirty million dollars to be refunded so they applied for a two hundred and thirty million dollar illegal tax refund using our stolen companies on the twenty third of December two days before Christmas and it was approved and paid out the next day it was largest tax refund in the history of Russia. Paid out in one day on a fraud now surrogate. I at seen a lot of corruption in Russia. It's not to see if you lived there but for us to to Imagine Vladimir Putin would have been okay with his own people stealing nearly a quarter of a billion dollars of money from the Russian government. Because that's what it was. It wasn't money stolen from us as we pay the taxes to the Russian government and these crooks stole it from the Russian government but we figured Putin would have never allow that because he's a Patriot. And a nationalist a tough guy so we thought if we just publicize this and highlighted and bring out bring it out into the open then the good guys will get the bad guys that would be the end of the story as we wrote Criminal Complaints. We have to every law enforcement agency in Russia. I went to the media newspaper. Television TV Sergei went to the Russian state. Investigative Committee their version of the FBI engage sworn testimony against the crooked police officers and various others and then we waited for the good guys to get the bad guys. It turns out that in Putin's Russia there are no good guys and about five weeks after. Sergei testified instead of arresting the people who stole the money. The people who testified against the police officers testified against Came to his home On the twenty fourth of November two thousand eight at arrested Sergei Magnitsky and put him in pretrial detention where he was then tortured to get him to withdraw his testimony. They put him in cells with fourteen inmates and a bads led lights on twenty four hours. A day to impose sleep deprivation put in with no heat and no window. Panes December Moscow. Who nearly froze to death and they put him in cells with no toilet just a hole in the floor. Where the sewage would bubble. They moved from cells the cells to sell the middle of the night and the purpose of all this was to get him to withdraw his testimony against the corrupt police officers and then to get him to sign a false confession to say that he stole the two hundred thirty million dollars and he did so on my instruction now they figured here's a guy who were wears a blue suit and red tie. White SHIRT BUYS COFFEE AT STARBUCKS in the morning goes to a fancy Western law firm. They throw him in in one of these horrible hellhole prisons and within a week. You'll sign whatever they wanted to sign but it turned out that they had totally misjudged. Sergei Magnitsky. Sergei magnitsky might not have looked like a tough character but he was a man of absolute in Integrity for him. The idea of perjuring himself and bearing false witness was more of a torture than the physical. They were subjecting him to as he just refused. And in retaliation they just kept on upping and upping the torture the pressure until the point When he started to get sick he ended up getting terrible pains in his stomach. He lost forty pounds and he was diagnosed as having pancreatitis and gallstones and needing an operation. Berge operation which was scheduled for the first of August. Two thousand nine at about a week before the operation. They came to him again and they said please sign this false confession and again. He said no and so in response to that they abruptly moved him for the prisonment had a medical wing to a maximum security. Prison called BOOT era which is considered to be one of the most horrific prisons in Russia and most significantly for Sergei. They had no proper medical wing. There they put them in Boca his health goes to a terrible downward spiral it goes into constance agonizing ear piercing pain untreated. He and his lawyers right twenty different desperate requests for medical attention to every different branches of the criminal justice system every branch either ignores the requests or denies them writing in the night of November sixteenth. Two Thousand Nine. Sergei MAGNITSKY GOES INTO CRITICAL CONDITION. That night it Gutierrez commodities. Don't WanNa have responsibility for him anymore. And so they Put Him in an ambulance. Send him to a different prison at had a medical wing when he arrives at the different prison instead of putting him in the emergency room. Put Him in an isolation cell they chain him to a bed and eight right guards with rubber batons beats our game isky until he died that was December sixteenth. Two Thousand Nine Sore Gaming Nikki. Thirty seven years old. He left a wife and two children. Absolute horror absolute horror. And after that moment what was your initial reaction bill. When did you really? Did you just swing into action right away? I can't imagine that you weren't absolutely overcome at that point. It was. It was by far the most horrible life changing traumatic soul destroying news. I could of ever gotten Sergei. Magnitsky was killed As my proxy they killed him because they couldn't get to me and lost his life in my service and he would be still alive today if he hadn't been working for me and He lost his life trying to do the right thing. And so when I was finally able to serve. Cut through the fog and hysteria heartbreak enough to think clearly It was obvious to me what I needed to do. Which was to put aside everything else? I was doing my life and to devote all of my time all of my resources and all of my energy to go after the people killed surrogate. I need ski. And make them face justice. And that's what I've been doing for the last ten years and At first it didn't seem like we were going to get any justice. The Russian government completely absolutely circle the wagons Vladimir Putin got involved personally in the cover up they gave promotions and state honors people who were most complicit in a most shocking miscarriage of justice. They put Sergei Magnitsky on trial three years after they killed him in the first ever trial against a dead man in the history of Russia. They found him guilty. I was put on trial as co defendants in absentia I was also found guilty. It was clear that we needed to get justice outside of Russia. And that's when I came up with this idea. Which is that the people who killed him. didn't kill him for religion or ideology. They killed him for money. They killed him for two hundred thirty million dollars of money and I know that the people who stole that money don't keep that money in Russia. They keep that money and dollars in the West. They keep it. In New York banks British banks and Swiss banks they buy properties on the CO desert and France and Belgrave Square London. South Beach Miami. They send their kids to boarding school in Switzerland and their girlfriends on shopping trips to Milan and I came up with this idea that if we could take that away from them if we could freeze their assets and banned their visas that may not be true justice for for torture murder put it would hit them or accounts and it would be a lot better than the total impunity. That they're joying up. Until now and that idea freezing assets and banning visas became known as the Magnitsky Act and I I took this idea to Washington and took two senators senator. Benjamin Cardin of Maryland Democrat Senator John McCain of Arizona Republican. I told them the story that I've just shared with you today. And I said can we freeze their assets and banned? Their visas may said yes. It that became known as the Magnitsky Act in Washington. There's very few things that people agree on. There's partisan divide on almost anything but the one thing they could agree on is that Russian burgers shouldn't be able to come to the United States in November of two thousand and twelve. The magnitsky act passed the Senate Ninety two to four it passed the House of Representatives of eighty nine percents in December fourteenth. Two thousand twelve. The magnitsky act became a federal law. Well you know you can't bring a guy back from the dead but you sure had a big impact I mean. That's that's pretty amazing stuff. So where does it stand now? Bill are you a you still working on this or will this ever be behind you? Do you think so yeah. I'm working on it big time. So the the most immediate impact of the passage of the Magnitsky Act was a tuten out of his mind he got so angry because this is the first time that anyone is sort of stuck it back at him everybody cowers in fear with this guy and all of a sudden here we we hitting back hard and he. He's a definitely a tough guy but he's not nearly as tough as he tries to make himself out to be an all of a sudden we showed his weakness and he retaliated by banning the adoption of Russian orphans by American families. Right after the Magnitsky Act was passed. Which is the most heinous thing? He could possibly do his orphans. Were all were often the sick orphans. There being adopted and cared for in America and who who would often die Russian orphanages effectively syncing zone orphans to death to protect corrupt officials. And He made repealing the Magnitsky Act and stopping it from spreading to be a single largest foreign policy priority and You may remember a famous meeting where Russian female lawyer went to trump tower. When June nights thousand sixteen to meet with Donald Trump junior jared Kushner Paul manafort and that meeting was a representative of Putin Talia Veselnitskaya going to meet with Donald trump junior to say that if his father becomes president because before he was elected could they repeal Magnitski. Now happy to say that. That meeting didn't bear fruit or of their any. Any of their other efforts The magnitsky act as now been passed in Canada in the United Kingdom in Estonia Latvia. Lithuania co-ceo But the biggest prize is coming up in the European Union which were working on right now which would get us. Twenty seven countries in one go and then the other big prize Australia and so this is a lifelong mission of the magnitsky. Act Has morphed into a piece of legislation. Not just for Sergei magnitsky not just for Russia but for bad guys everywhere in the world and so the Magnitsky Act is now applied all over the world to to death squads in Nicaragua to generals in in in Myanmar. That are doing the Persecution genocide of the Hinga is being applied to Bad guys all sorts of places. All over the world and every country is now starting to pick this thing up and it's it's really becoming a probably the the the single most powerful new technology for dealing with human rights abuse and kleptocracy in the world And it's named after Sergei Magnitsky and we'll never be able to give Sergei his life back but his legacy is is an enormous one where his sacrifice is? Death has led to this incredible tool which really really upset scares and deters dictators kleptocrats oligarchs from doing bad things and and for that is life wasn't a meaningless life who was a meaningful life. Build it. I'm curious about something. I'm curious about some of the mechanics of this. So if I'm you know Mr Russian oligarch and I show up at the US border. I get off a plane somewhere in a big city. Like New York or something there must be some sort of a database or you know in my like the ten most wanted or yeah so it's really interesting how it works. You'd never be able to get on the plane in the first place because you have to have a valid visa to get on a plane as a as a foreigner coming to America and the way it works is that the US Treasury the Office of Finance and Asset Control Fac of the. Us Treasury publishes a sanctions list in sanctions gets updated on a regular basis and sanctions lists consists of terrorists sanctions drug dealers sanctions and magnitsky sections. And they're all put together and any time someone gets added to that list There are a bunch of databases that some every bank in. The world subscribes to the most famous one is whole world check. It's put put together by Thomson Reuters and we'll check Updates the sanctions list every bank. It within seconds knows who's on that list and those sanctions lists are cross referenced automatically electronically with all client lists in all banks and within seconds of a person being added to the sanctions list. Does it matter whether their accounts in America elsewhere. That bank no longer wants to do business with the sanction industrial and if the money is in their bank ready then they can no longer transfer it because the bank doesn't want to be in trouble with US Treasury and if these people ever want to set up a new account no bank will take them and no no multinational company would want to do business with them anymore because they don't want to be in violation of US Treasury sanctions because if you're in violation of US Treasury Sanctions Let's say you're banks and and One of these people as a million dollars in your bank rose eight billion dollars in your bank and there's a specific example of one who had a billion dollars they have a billion dollars in your bank and they want to transfer it to say Russian Bank after they've been put on the sanctions list the Western Bank. We'll say no because if they transfer it they could be fined three times that amount by the US treasuries they can be fined three billion dollars. That's the downside. The upside is a hundred and fifty dollar transfer fee and so effectively. Your money is no good. If you're if you're on the Magnitsky list anymore money is stuck. Wherever it is you become totally paralysed financially and your movement. Sounds like you just can't move around the world anymore either physically. No you're your visas get canceled you. Can't you can't go anywhere. So you're you're basically sentenced to life in Russia you know. These people are all ruining Russia. Will they can see it for themselves. Well you know good job doesn't even begin to cover it but while you you really amazing thing here we're actually getting towards the end of our time but there is one more thing couple more things. Actually I want to ask you. I know some people I know value investors who every now and then get a little bit excited about you know buying something in Russia. I'm going to guess that you have a message for them or am I assuming too much. The message is obvious which is that. It's a totally uninvested country. Because it's it's you're not buying value. If there's no way that you can have access to your assets if they're gonNA steal them from you at any point arbitrarily and moreover and I was evaluated still am a value investor when I when I started investing in Russia And it was trading at ninety nine point seven percent discount. The idea was that it was at such a steep discount that you could make money. If there's any kind of positive trajectory if things get even if it goes from horrible too bad you can make a lot of money. Well now. We're nowhere near a ninety nine percent discount. We're probably at like a sixty percent discount and is deteriorating. And you don't you never make money buying cheap stuff in a in a in a in a negative catalyst situation and so there's no logical reason as a value investor to invest in Russia. Unless you're just totally speculating on a short term. Move in the market because as an investor in trading and investing or two different things but as an investor. You're looking for some type of rerating that's going to happen for some period of time and what I would predict. There's going to be a derating that happens. In Russia as the rule of law continues to deteriorate. Your property rights are no longer there and it doesn't matter how Sheikh stuff is. I kind of figured you'd say exactly that. That's what I threw softball there. I wanted people to hear the answer so bill. My last question for my guest is is the same and I'm really curious to hear how you're going to answer it. I always ask them. You know if you can leave our listeners. With one last thought where last idea about anything investing life Russia corruption? Anything at all. What would it be? Well it's an interesting question in something which I'm going to say something. Very unexpected for an investor Groups listening which is that I loved being an investor. That was very interesting very exciting stimulating beyond belief and wonderful in a lot of different ways. But I can say that this new life of mine which is a life of justice fighting I I would say. Fighting for justice is dramatically an infinitely more satisfying than fighting for money. And I would have never thought that in a million years when I was fully engaged as a as a An investor but I kind of feel like that. Now that that that that What what I'm doing right now to get justice for Sergei even though I make no money at all it's just spend money. I'm infinitely happier than I ever was before that every state at every step of the campaign when we make progress. Well that's that's that's a great answer bill. Thank you for that. I I look forward to reading more about you. Know your progress as you continue to fight in the European Union Hopelessly a nice big headline about that in some of the financial papers and good luck to you. I hope it all turns out really well and I hope you'll come back and talk to us about it. Thank you so much. I'm working on my second book Which will be coming out in the fall. Twenty twenty one so stay tuned you can learn all about what's happened after after right first story. Red Notice okay. Great Yeah Oh I love a good book. I'll I'll definitely be one of the first by that. Stay safe over there in London with yourself and your family and wash your hands and keep your distance and do all that good stuff and we'll talk to you soon. I hope care after a lot of interviews I say wow and suddenly wow doesn't quite cover it does it. You know well extra. While I don't even the the words really escaped me here but man read read notice. I read it years ago. A friend of mine who was a actually lives in London and and I think he met bill once upon a time. We didn't talk about that turned me onto the book and it's a page Turner. You can't put it down and you know the story is it's real and it's gut wrenching but it's like something out of a political thriller novel or something highly recommended and when he comes out with the Second Book. I'm GonNa Gobble that thing up. Wow that was really something. And let's go and talk about some lighter subject matter and take a look at. What's in the mail bag texting privacy policy terms and conditions posted at textiles dot? Us texting rules recurring automated marketing messages by text message and data rates may apply. What's the number one stock in America? Right now Whitney. Tilson the man. Cnbc called the profit. Sharing the biggest investment prediction of his career. Tilson predicted the DOT COM crash the housing crisis in two thousand eight on sixty minutes. 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This is where you and I get to have a very frank conversation about investing or whatever else is on your mind you right into feedback investor our DOT COM with questions and comments and politely worded criticisms and I read everything you guys send me and I respond to as much as I can this week. We're going to start off with a from Rudy F. And Rudy F says Dan lately. I've been able to listen to all your podcasts. And have very much enjoyed them. My question concerns defaults and bankruptcies if a debtor defaults doesn't the money lost by creditors vanish effectively shrinking. The money supply the amounts about to be lost in the oil patch. Etcetera may pale in comparison to the amount being created by OUR GOVERNMENT. But is there any balancing at all? Thanks keep up the great work rudy. F- Rudy I would say yes. There's a balancing effect. But I think what we get here is a deflationary push- pushed downward globally. We've talked about it before in the program. According to Ray Dolly there's like a five trillion dollar funding hole in the United States. And there's a five fifteen trillion dollar funding hole. He caught it in income hole. But I think it amounts to the same thing outside the United States. That's twenty trillion. That's a lot of trillions that requires a lot of printing and basically the problem is this so in the United States. We can print the money to pay debts with right so the United States especially the government can can print all the money once and pay its debts. Us dollar denominated debt. Of course we have no reason to denominate them in anything else because we're the world's reserve currency but that puts other countries in a bad spot because they want dollars to and they borrow in dollars and they can't print so you know these deflationary episodes treat them really really horribly because they have demand for dollars can't print their way out with the Hell. Do they do so a lot of debt? Winds up being destroyed and really you know if it's a little deflationary for us or even a lot. It's a lot more for them so I think that yes. There's a balancing effect but I think it's way on the other side of this and for right now it's deflation city good question. Great question and great ongoing question. I hope you rudy and others continued. Ask it because we'll need to assess it all along the way this next one is from Ben F. And Ben F is referring to my discussion. Last week of the meat industry. He says the main reason for the animal depopulation is because of how terrible the meat industry is a normal animal that is raised. Humanely would not need to be killed a certain time. The animals being killed is because they are fed in such unhealthy ways in preparation for final slaughter that they would die from eating this way soon after. Enjoy your stuff but I really wish there were no bailouts because no one is learning a lesson from this except for the same lesson we've been taught for decades that government is there to save you. What a terrible and incorrect lesson to learn we have traded freedom for security and it is UNAMERICAN. Thanks Ben F. I'm going to say I have to agree with you. Been all over the place here because I want him to comment on the on the the meat industry just spot on and I think I alluded to that before but I just you know. You can't talk about everything all the time can't cover every aspect of every topic. I should say and as far as the bailouts go I agree. It's sort of like an addict right because you you know the addict he he gets addicted. And then you know the the longest addicted and the more you take the worse it is on your body when you try to get off right and I think that's where we are. That really is where we are. We and in fact you can hear it. You can hear this in the news reports. You can hear people saying things like well you know. The government learned its lesson in two thousand eight nine. And you know you go early and you go big with bailouts and stimulus and whatever you have to do and it'll halter out okay. Because it turned out okay. This time did it but I agree. Bailouts are are problematic in this particular case. I have some sympathy. I understand the impetus people watching your fellow. Human being suffer is really horrible but the suffering was by the government intervention right so and and people say well what else could we do? We had to shut things down or the virus Blah Blah Blah. I'm not so sure I won't say I'm sure at all on either way but I'm not so sure that a total shutdown was absolutely the only possible way to do this and it's such a giant complex situation. It's hard to say but I'll just leave you there thank you. That's a that's a great question. Actually a great comment. Next IS BILL T OKAY AND BILL. T says hi. Dan Longtime Fan hero when to thank you and the rest of the stanbury gang for recommending gold over the past year or so. I'm really glad I got in when I did question. What is the name of the law slash principal slash? Tra that that the longer something has been considered a store of value. Then the more likely it will be considered a store evalu- going into the future. I seem to remember mentioning this on a podcast. One time referencing gold. I believe but I've been unable to find the name despite many Google attempts. Thanks and keep up the great work bill to what you're looking for. Bill is called the Lindy effect and it comes from. I think it comes from anti fragile by Nassim Taleb but frankly all his books run together in my mind so I don't know which one it came from really but the Lindy effect is Yeah Gold's been restored value for five thousand years therefore it is likely to be one for another five thousand doesn't mean it's guaranteed it's just likely and this is a tendency. It's not a law of nature really. It's a tendency a general principle for example the practice of bloodletting was people like opening their veins because they thought it cured them all manner of illnesses that was practiced into the nineteenth and there may even been a case in the twentieth century of it happening. But you know well into the nineteenth century and for like you know maybe a thousand or two thousand years long time so obviously. Let's say it was like two thousand years at the one thousand year mark. You know you were spot on thinking that was Lindy right bloodletting but you know eventually we kind of got past that so it's a tendency and I think it's a very good tendency to assume with gold because of its track record is a store of value very good question very good principle and it applies to other things too like you know. We've been reading the Bible for a couple thousand years so it's likely that we continue to publish read it for another couple of thousand. We've been listening to great music by. I don't know let's just say. J S Bach from the middle early middle of the eighteenth century. Therefore we will continue doing so into you know the next couple centuries right. I hope we will. I Love Balk Good Question Bill. Glad you sort of gave me a chance to refresh us on that next one. And the last one for today's by Brian L. and Brian L. S. about another principal from the seem to lead which I wrote about recently but I he says Dan. Hi. I'm a new listener to your podcast and enjoy them. Well they've been a great supplements who my workout sessions at home. Some of your tips on being bearish on the market helped. Confirm a play. I made last April Thirty S. And then he says this little trade that he did with these vix. Etf something and it made some money for him. Good glad to hear it Brian. He says I recently read your article. The number one secret of investing in life which was a stands buried digest recently and I wanted to have a deeper context of the application of via negative. As you know in stands where there's a whole lot of information for a total portfolio or alliance subscriber. And if you were to apply the via negative thought. Would you already just omit from the get? Go looking into publications that don't interest you or is it still worthwhile to dive deep and each publication than only decide later what you want to admit. I just wanted to get clarity. A confirmation on your thoughts on this. Thank you very much Brian. L. So Brian. You're never gonNa hear me tell you not to not to take stands berry advice but via negative of principle for for those who don't know it's it's the negative way it's latins the negative way and and to lab sums it up brilliantly says the learning of life is about what to avoid all and all the great investors agree here. Warren Buffett says rule. Number one is. DoN'T LOSE MONEY. Rule number two see rule number one Charlie Munger. Buffett's partner says it's amazing. How well people like us have done by. Just not being stupid rather than trying to be very clever right. Avoid being stupid and other people like Ray Dolly. Oh he said some some good via negative stuff over the years. Most people need to know when not to take bet he says and he also says you know. I know that I don't know a lot right. He's negatively defining and I think George Soros counts too when he said you know the secret of my success is that I'm wrong. I'm always wrong but I fixed my mistakes. So they're defining things negatively in general and they're they're focusing on what to avoid right and that is the via negative and it's very powerful in fact the whole scientific endeavor as I see it strongly under the influence of Karl Popper. Here is an attempt to falsify to find out what's wrong more so than what's right. It's hard to you can't ultimately once and for all find out what's right but you can. Alternately wants her off for find out what's wrong. So falsification is a very important habit to get into important skill to have and it's important for investors there are whole industries that you probably want to stay away from. It's a really useful principle in life and in investing and Brian. Whatever you choose to do whatever stands very advice you choose to avoid just know this. Every STANDS BERRY EDITOR EVERYBODY. Giving advice is published by stands. Berry they all this exercise they all want to avoid risk. They all have the negative of built into every recommendation. They they make anyway so that was really what I was trying to say with it. Not that there are certain publications. You should avoid. That's for you to decide. Every investor is different has a different style. And you have to know your personality. That's how you determine you know what to focus on what to avoid hope that's useful for you. That's all I have on that but it's but I thank you for the question. We will be talking about via negative of probably for as long as I do. This show and that is another show. That's another episode of the stands Berry Investor. Our Hope. You enjoyed it as much as I did. Do me a favor subscribe to the show and I tunes. Google play or wherever you listen to podcasts. And while you're there help us grow with a rate and a review like US Release Review Us. You can follow us on. Facebook and instagram handle is at investor. Our and if you have a guest that you'd like to hear me interview I wanNA know about it. Email us with that information at feedback at investor our dot Com until next week. I'm Dan Ferris. Thanks for listening. Thank you for listening to this. Episode OF THE STANDS BERRY INVESTOR OUR TO ACCESS. Today's notes and received notice of upcoming episodes go to investor our DOT COM and enter. Your email. Have a question for Dan. Send him an email feedback at investor. Our DOT COM. This broadcast is for entertainment purposes. Only and should not be considered personalized investment advice trading stocks all other financial instruments involves risk. You should not make any investment decision based solely on what you hear stands. Berry INVESTOR OUR IS PRODUCED BY STANDS. Berry Research. It is copyrighted by the stands Berry Radio Network.

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F*ck You, Mitch McConnell!

Dumb, Gay Politics

1:27:58 hr | 1 year ago

F*ck You, Mitch McConnell!

"Hey, guys, it's Taryn at its Ashley. And a we have a podcast called unsolicited advice. We sure do. And if you're not subscribed to us like what are you doing with your life? That. If you want to be a part of this podcast. Make sure you send us your stories to our Email address. Now. Listen, it gets tricky. It's full op advice unsolicited pod at shemale dot com. And we want to know everything we want all the juicy details. Let us know these sure to follow us on Instagram. So you can get all the inside scoop at unsolicited advice pod. And subscribe to us wherever you get your Pucca by. Hey, guys. Well, we are super excited to now that we're on cast box. Now cast box the fastest growing highest rated podcast app on both and Android. And it does have all your favorite podcast. Okay. You could still listen to delegate politics wherever get your podcast, but we just want you to try cast box. We literally hate every single other podcast provider as you guys know, and especially the main one, and you know, which one we're talking about and we're super excited that we're finally on Cass box. Because we think it's the best. So try it. It's gay politics, America's unkind, but we're not going to let it go down like that. Because we've got a dumb gay podcast, dumb gay political podcast. We probably don't have all the facts, but we got opinions and we'll probably backtrack. That's Dom gay podcasts. Adum political podcast. It's all it's all shit. It's all shit. I don't know. I three I am extremely. Of this shit is. The. This shit is Trump t- argue MP eight. What I don't know. I don't even know. Hey, everybody. Welcome to dumb, gay politics. I'm julie. And I'm brandy. And this is the podcast where we talk about the week in politics. Like, we are talking about reality. Tv and gar all I want to talk about is reality TV might have to change the podcast. Not kidding. I hate politics. I never thought I was going to say this. But I hated to it's I'm so I hate all of them the Kardashian started on Sunday all want to do is talk about Kardashians, and Adnan Siodmak Adleman Siad mugger still in jail. I wanna talk about him too. I want maybe we could just make the podcast like watching documentaries. And and talking about the injustices from the documentaries that we watch that we can't believe are still happening because I'm telling you, I could give you a list. I don't know if I'm going to be able to continue watching things that like, whatever the blood. Documentary or whatever where it's just injustices because it's making my tolerance for this podcast. Very low. Yeah. Now, I I was going to tell you to watch even more of them like, well, I really get crazy such as the one with the son that your brother wants to go down and kill the guy. Yeah. I mean, you said that one is a good one. If you want to sit and cry because the u the letter to Acharya letter Vaccari something about my son, or whatever it is probably one of the saddest and most unjust thing. I've ever seen in my life. So that's why you're crying, you're crying. Because you can't you can't believe like, you can't believe first of all just how sad, and there's whatever. But the in Justice, you can't believe it. Yeah. I just can't take that heavily with politics today. There's just too much of it, you know, and. That ad non-site. Just had me we had to immediately put on the Kardashians to cleanse the palate. Because they feel like they've been done dirty, and they really haven't right when they said we can't catch a break. Yeah. Like there's guys in jail for twenty years for crime. He didn't commit to are. Sorry. You're like their names are card Asha breaks like they get nothing but breaks breaks all day long for them. You're so rich, and so have everything, and I know listen khloe said everyone goes through things, and that's true. But I mean, no. So that's on. We're going to be all over that. Because I need I need reality TV in my life. And I need a break from this. So the politics you guys are episode. It's really it's frustrating. It might come back to we might have to dumb gay politics of reality. Tv exactly you know, what? I mean. Yes. I do that could be considered our patriotic. If you're interested in joining WWW dot patriots dot com slash dumb, gay politics. We had a Skype call with Tim curry this week. We talked to Tim curry face to face we paid like three hundred dollars from the service, and we have three minutes, and we're going to tell the whole story. It was a hairy. Fucking hair-raising episode where we had to be Julius truck. And and do like the hot spot from her phone, and we're driving on like a won't basically a one way street and there's nowhere to pull over. And I'm like, I'm not fucking talking to him by myself if he comes on right now, I'm hanging this up. I'm shutting the computer she's like a pullover. And so that's if you want to hear that story. Sign up for our patriots because we're going to talk about that this week. You never know. You might see Tim curry on this podcast, or you never know. Who knows what are what are continued relationship with Tim curry magin, Tim curry being interviewed on the podcast when Tim curry who sing sweet transvestite ends every podcast every podcast, you'll have to matron if you wanna know if we told him that. And we got a postcard we got a postcard from Jen and jests they say they're one of the fourteen because they share a patriot. And you know, what Jenin ingests we love when people share the patriot. We want that we want people to share the code. It makes me feel very Netflix. Jewish share all of our coz everything. And so there from Brooklyn, and they're sweet leads at a soccer game. And they're going on right in the drug dens. We love you guys J J. And then we got this letter from max are and he sent us. What did he send us now? Now, he sent us a box of scrunches scrunchy scrunchy. He sent us a box of scrunchy and like with the GP logo. So it's a huge box of all these fluffy. Scrambling all different colors, all roughly and so cute with our logo on it. We definitely got to send one Jennifer Johnston are seemed digital artists invented the logo with us. Yup. She designed it. Well, we designed it. I guess and she she she made it as she does everything for us. She's a genius. And max when I was reading your letter, I was reading, of course, in the truck, we do everything of import and Julie's truck, and I was like, oh, my God, we should use this as our review as a new review and turns out max is the one who wrote our original review that we use on all of our promo cards and all of ours promo materials when we when we send letters to try to get guests on the show, we use that review and Julie's to have printed on a lot of her stand up stuff. So it's just funny because the the flair is there it's a flare that appeals to us good writer. So you're going to read this letter max like I appreciate that we Reggie review back in two thousand seventeen you're still here because I'm quite sure many many many of the fourteen or. John. I mean, I know I would be dear Julian brandy I'm writing because you've mentioned on both GP in the patriot on that you're still somewhat in your feelings in two thousand nineteen true. And that it helps you to hear from members of the fourteen I won't presume to know what you've gone through over the past year. But I felt the need to reach out given how often the two of you have helped me cope with my problems throughout the years. Johnny McGovern fag angel that he is has introduced me to many queer and queer adjacent artists and entertainers through. Hey, Queen YouTube being my absolute favorites, I fell in love with you both while watching hot tea, which led me to people's couch. GDP the patriot in your box office vendor. Pump rules after show. You are both hilarious brilliant comedians. Julie few things in life, delight me, more than your indignant, rage filled. Fantasies of vigilante Justice, brandy the same as truth of your sardonic casually. Savage. Insults. Julie your moral outrage and thirst for retribution alongside brandies jaded realpolitik and desire to feel numb perfectly rep. Present my worldview, and my emotions I mean, that's when I said we need to put this on. I mean that is good. I love casually savage insults. In addition to your fierceness, your silliness and your hilariousness. I always appreciate your displays of character and compassion, your discussions of major socio political issues on DIGI p reveal that underneath it all you both care about the suffering of others and hope to see the country evolve. In terms of its shared values and collective notions of common decency. I believe that GP contributes to that vision by making politics and current events more accessible and understandable for people who might otherwise be less informed. That's kind of what the review said member. Yeah. Yes. Even for news junkie such as myself aids. Comprehension and often provides information that I had missed amidst. The storm headline I find that hard to believe, but thank you. And then we skip to tell you all of this to give you a sense of the types of feelings and concerns from what you offer me relief. I find it very therapeutic to listen to your podcast or watch you on hot tea when I'm in my feelings, you make me feel validated. And understood by. Showing me that there are other people who share my opinions values you lift my spirits by reminding me that there are reasons to laugh and to be joyful in spite of the shit storm and douchebag ary that surrounded us, surround us, the beautiful friendship and creative partnership that you to shares inspiring warms my heart when my heart feels broken. Thank you again for all that you do. I hope that's gone Chee nineteen brings you happiness and fulfillment. The interview of Bill Browder and Trump gate were major accomplishments, and I'm so proud of you both Rachel Maddow sees you to coming for her gig. And she's right to be worried. Truly, those episodes of GP were expert pieces of journalism. That's so sweet. I love that the next time. You too are in your feelings. Currently right now right now, I hope that it will help a bit to know that there's a gay future lawyer in Boston values and respects you both. I wanted to get you a gift to celebrate the year of the scrunchy. So I found a company that was able to print the GP local logo onto scrunches. I figured that. You could keep some of them for yourself and. Out the rest as gifts or promotional materials. So that's sincerely yours. Mac yet. Max are max are sell max, we are going to we're going to keep a lot of them. Because God knows we lose them. Julie's already got them. Like all in our truck on her life gearshift, and such and we're going to put your handsome, handsome handsome pictures on our drug dim bulletin board. We're gonna put you on the horse right next to Andy Oni, and Harry who would have more than one horn. So great got our our listeners are so fancy I love it. I mean, it really is a dream realized and we're gonna we have on our website. You guys WWW dot Julian brandy dot com. We have emerged section, and if you buy one of our shirts that we have there's four shirts available. Jennifer Johnson has her own shop, and she doesn't have these. You'll probably make these now because easy for her. But we'll send you a free scrunchy. If you're. A girl. And then I guess if you're if you're and you want one just say that you won't want. You know, what I mean, we don't you you just wear it on your wrist. It's like nobody's really putting their hair up with it. That's true. But those of you who do listen welcome to the eighties and the nineties scratchy nineteen and we all deserve to celebrate girl. Or boy, it's so we will thanks to max we will send that with in will really seem fancy because we also send these Obama postcards that we still to this day. Don't know who sends them to us. We don't we get we've gotten packages of them. And we send those postcards with the shirts. But we don't know who you're listening in these from you, let us know send us more and. Because now it really is. Like a communal affair like the show. We made the shirts and Jennifer Don help Dawson we and then we use the card that somebody helped us grungy. And that max. Everything is very familial. Well, it really it really steps the scrunchy nineteen game way on up, and I am like balance determined to make this God damn year. The best year of our lives. Well, let's get the shit storm. Shit put up on the wall chicken. Bitch shit off of the it down on the floor in the glass. Both you take some bucks and put up on the wash. Another week without the mullahs report brings another shit storm about the bar report. Now, we told you guys last week that the mother investigation ended and Robert Muller turned his report in to attorney general Bill bar bar read the enormous report in forty eight hours. And then summarize it in a four page report called the by report. And according to the bar report. There just was no collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. It's all fine yet, fine, the Democrats, and the people paying attention are having none of it. And that includes us we wanna see the God damn Muller report and not Bill bars. Bullshit book report vice report one more time. So if every if f so everyone spent all week demanding for it to be released the house passed proposal that would require bar to release it and Mitch McConnell blocked. The proposal, of course, but we'll get to Mitch maternal later. Damn now, regardless of Mitch the bitch. Bill bar made a statement promising to release the mullahs report to the public by mid April. His letter stated that him and his team are coming through the four hundred page report identifying and redecorating the following one material subject to federal rule of criminal procedure six that by law cannot be made public. What does that mean? Material subject to federal rule of criminal procedure six that bylaw cannot be made public guess just private just stuff. I can't. To material the intelligence community dentis as potentially compromising sensitive sources and methods. So keeping your sources safe. Okay. Three material that could affect other ongoing matters, including those that the special counsel has referred to other department offices. So all those southern district of New York about all the other investigation. Okay. And for information that would unduly infringe on the personal privacy and reputational interests of peripheral third parties. Yeah. And Don, jR of Jared Kushner, Eric Trump Malania, Barron. The hookers any of his cabinet members any of Trump's lawyers and anyone else affiliated with Trump that hasn't already been indicted. The whole fucking thing is going to be rejected at this point. But here's the catch. Adam Schiff, the head of the house intelligence committee. And Mark Warner the vice chair of the Senate intelligence committee are by statute entitled and allowed to see the report full and on reducted. Okay. So since that's the case. Everyone's going crazy and before Adam Schiff can even see the shit. The Republicans got together to smear him and bully him in an effort to get him to step down. So he can never see the unredacted report PS, we Hoke hauled. He's hollywood. He's that shift and it didn't work and he said bitch. Try again, exactly I'm sorry. Somebody knocking at the door. I'm not answering try again, I don't think. So. No, thank you. So at an open hearing, Mike Conaway read a letter on behalf of the House Republicans asking Adam Schiff to step down from his position as head of the house Intel committee now we're going to play you the end of his remarks because it's the only one we could find right line. But the end of Marcano air, Mike Conaway sucking name is he's the Republican reading the letter where they'll talk to Adam Schiff until right down. And then you're going to hear Adam Schiff. Yes, he he's very toned-down. He's not giving you West Hollywood. No. But he does come correct. Yes. He does a subtle come correct for them. And he gets the point across. So in case, you haven't heard it. And I also just wanna point out that for you to visualize. I want you to close your eyes visualize take a moment. I want you to visualize Adam Schiff being cool, calm collected doing his Vaga Trie. And also next to Adam Schiff is Devon newness. That's right. Everyone Devin noon as. Sitting next to Adam Schiff mic, Conway's two seats down and Adam Schiff has not a problem in making contact with both of them whenever he says corruption, and such heard turns he does my hair back and forth and his hair and looks right. And Devin Nunes is with the death. And if he should if anyone is listening, who's does music, you need to make a remix of Devin Nunes going corruption, and then I wanna hear I went my hair. You know what I mean? Yeah. Exactly actions, both incompatible with duty as chairman of this committee, which alone in the house Representative says he obliga- Shen authority to provide effective oversight of the US intelligence community such we have no faith in your ability to discharge your duties commander persist with your custody source ability and urge her media resignation. As chairman of the committee, chairman this letter signed by all nine members of the Republican side of the house how the committee, and I asked you Kasit that'd be entered into the record. Today's. What cushion? I'm going to turn to our witnesses who the of the hearing today, but before I do and as as you have chosen instead of addressing the hearing to simply attack me consistent with the presence attacks. I do want to respond in this way. My colleagues may think it's okay that the Russians offered dirt on a democratic candidate for president as part of what was described as the Russian government's effort to help the Trump campaign. You might think that's okay. My colleagues might think it's okay when that was offered to the some of the president had a pivotal role in the campaign. That the president's son did not call the FBI. He did not adamantly refuse that foreign help. No. Instead that son said that he would love to help the Russians. You might think it's okay that he took that meeting. You might think. It's okay. That Paul Manafort, the campaign share someone with great experience running campaigns. Also took that meeting you might think it's okay that the president's son-in-law also took that meeting. You might think it's okay that they concealed it from the public. You might think it's okay that they're only disappointment after that meeting. Was that the dirt they received on Hillary Clinton wasn't better? You might think. That's okay. You might think it's okay that when it was discovered a year later that then lied about that meeting. He keeps looking at it was about adoptions, you might think it's okay that the president is reported to have helped dictate that lie. You might think. That's okay. I don't. You might think it's okay that the campaign chairman of a presidential campaign would offer information about that campaign to a Russian oligarch in exchange for money or debt forgiveness. You might think. That's okay. I don't. You might think. It's okay. That campaign chairman offered polling data campaign polling data to someone linked to Russian intelligence. I don't think that's okay. You might think it's okay that the president himself called on Russia to hack his opponents emails, if they were listening, you might think it's okay. That later that day, in fact, the Russians attempted to hack server affiliated with that campaign. I don't think that's okay. You might think that it's okay that the president's son-in-law sought to establish a secret back channel of communications with the Russians to a Russian diplomatic facility. I don't think that's okay. You might think. It's okay. That into Societa of the president may direct contact with the GRU through goose for two and WikiLeaks and considered that is considered a hostile intelligence agency. You might think that it's okay. A senior campaign official was instructed to reach that associate and find out what that hostile intelligence agency had to say in terms of dirt on his opponent. You might think it's okay that the national security adviser designate secretly conferred with the Russian ambassador about undermining US sanctions. And you might think it's okay. He lied about it to the FBI, they'll not arrested either, you might say gel. Okay. You might say. That's just what you need to do to win. But I don't think it's okay. Well, I'm sorry. I didn't think it's okay that I kept sniffing. I mean, let me do it when we. Hard one. I mean, it comes down to the fact that could Muller find an actual crime to prosecute maybe not. But it comes down to this fact of are you, okay? With the president the entire campaign staff. The entire administration enabling. This behavior and also, including an enabling the Russian government and Vladimir Putin to interfere with our. Actual government Ebeling. Maybe we should've said enabling instead a collusion. And then it would have been a different report. Right. And and is it okay? That Donald Trump is compromised, and they're they're using that word, and they're saying that Adam Schiff is compromise compromise. How nobody's blackmailing him. He's got dirt on him. He's not has. He doesn't have investments anywhere. He's not trying to make money off of anything. He isn't compromised. So try it try it, Mike Conaway. Try Devin Nunes, try GM hiring is saying I mean like he's morally bankrupt. It's like Bill Maher said it. Jake tapper said it to Mick Mulvaney. He's like, it's fine. No collusion. Noche Malaysian fuckers morally bankrupt. Are you? Okay. Mick Mulvaney was talking shit. When Trump was the candidate like I'm never going to support this. And there he is like if I knew what his title was. I tell you guys because God knows everyone's like who the folks Mick Mulvaney was white is chief of stack right now the guy's morally bankrupt. And it's not okay. And every single one of those things that Adam Schiff, passive aggressively said is true. It's true. And that you just decide if you're okay with it. And clearly, they all our all our all our and Lia had a hard on for that speech. You watch like fifty times. I've watched it twice. I don't think I could watch. But. I acting chief of staff. Okay. All I know is we almost got Adam Schiff on this podcast. He ended up being a total star in. We started the podcast when Trump got elected like December twenty sixteen and then in early twenty seventeen we sent our producer at that time which was embassy row. Who does watch what happens live? We gave them a list of of congressman that we wanted on. And we wanted shift because he's our Representative yet from Hollywood West Hollywood. So we also did Brad Sherman. Who's the one in Burbank? We're not where we live, and it's like, no word from Bratcher. Who are you? Brad sherman. Don't even knows who you are. No, Adam Schiff is like top of the pops his like, I guess is a system. So here's what she responded to. She said. Hi, bell think so much for reaching out. I'm a huge fan of watch. What happens live and I loved Julian brandy on the people's couch. This is definitely a podcast. We would consider for the future. Unfortunately, the congressman schedule is completely book through the end of the year. Did it do to his house Intel commitment would you keep us apprised of episode topics in early twenty eighteen thank you, Emily, Emily. It's twenty nineteen and people's couches long gone. So I don't think I think the ship assailed. And unfortunately, like we said Adam Schiff got way too deep in the Russian. I mean, he got so GE. Yeah. He was just too big. He's like number one. Yeah. He's him Nancy Pelosi, Maxine Waters. So those people are just so high profile, and they're so busy subpoenaing Trump's taxes and the Georgia, Bank and other fucking thing. So, but you know, we we are always trying behind the scenes to get these people on and we will always have a special place in our heart for Adam Schiff. Oh, my God for sure we're so proud of him. So proud of what he's accomplished in the fact that I cannot wait for him to see the. Unredacted? And I love that they're trying. They can't stand it. They can't stand that he's going to see the acted because they all know. And that's what's so pathetic about the Republican party. And I'm talking to every single Republican right now, if you're continuing to be a Republican, you are part of the enabling Yar so deal with it. But this group that is trying to get Adam Schiff to nutsy the unredacted Muller report. It's so obvious that that's why they don't want him to see. And they said because they know we don't get to read it. But you do we have to trust. What you say? And it's like, oh like we have to trust Bill are right. Exactly. And why wouldn't you trust Adam Schiff? There's every reason to trust. I love when you said he's not investing in any other foreign like compromise in what ways living, you know. He's not compromised. There's nothing compromising him. So Devin Nunes, how how does that he still even on a committee is Zachary? Get your money from Twitter and get the fuck outta here. Devon nunez. Anyone who's had a migraine knows that they're like the absolute fucking worse. I've this good friend. Chris who I don't know for sure I've had migraines. I've had terrible headaches. But my friend, Chris she's like the kind of person that like comes down with a migraine in house to like shuttle the blind. Put an eye mask on make it cool going her bedroom lane bed all day. Don't be touched. Nobody talk. I don't unders- lie. You must feel like your head your brain is exploded. Yeah. I think you feel like I'm Agean. It's like being nauseous and also headache and also sick. And also like if not everything is completely, right? You want to die? Yeah. And every time I even get even a simple, seasonal headache. I think I have a brain tumor. Yes. If I was somebody that got migraines. I know that the fear of what is actually going on in my brain right now. It the fear alone would be debilitating. So now, we've got this thing called cove were so excited to be talking about it. It starts out with a simple consultation by a lie. Licensed physician, and then the prescription that they determine is best for you sent directly to your door. Because it's you get your migraines treated from the comfort of your own home. And it's it's personalized to you. So everyone or the community of people that gets migraines. I'm sure they all get the same kind of medication and everybody goes to the doctor and the migraine you have to have this. But not this. This is a doctor specifically for you and your specific migraine, and what they give you as tailored for you. Right. Like if you live in a humid climate if you live climate with that's crazy altitude or what your personal weight is. Or what your do? You have a million cats. I'm sure there's a million things that go in God. I know I would get the kind that has a million cats and that you're just obese and never leave the house don't clean up dust. Can't don't have time to just don't have time to know what I mean. So basically Coble breakdown everything you need to know about your migraine and your migraine treatment. It's Dr supervised by licensed, doc. After whose license to practice medicine and the state you live in who will prescribe you monthly medication. So don't try any funny business. Don't even think this is funny business because this is license real shit with real doctors with FDA approved medication all medication prescribed by the doctors at cove is FDA approved is not some like Mexicans onto herb. No, herbal not divert capsule. It's a real dictation for your real debilitating migraine, so if you suffer from migraines lasting, you need to do is wait to see the doctor with code. They're finally way to get the help you need when you need it. And when you use our special link, you'll get your first month of treatment free. Listen, we don't even have migraines. And we signed up for it. And I love it. I just feel like health consultation. If a free I'm like, why don't we want? We want to just give them over detail. Oh, I tell them feeling too. So go to with kkob dot com dot com slash dumb. Gay with cove dot com slash dumb gay with cove dot com slash dumb, gay, and you can get your month free. And it's on. So I'm getting back on birth control as you know for my skin. I need my skin to be back. Like just got the regular acne of a mid twenties gal, not the geriatric acne that I'm experiencing now. So I forgot how fucking annoying getting birth control is like I cannot it's like I try to go then when the boards out. I'm just like I'm over it. I don't want to go to the pharmacy. This is what people get pregnant bridge. Pregnant because it's so annoying to have to go every month to get your stupid, birth control. It is it. I don't know why I can get a Trump. Voodoo doll mailed to me overnight from Amazon, but I can't get my birth control. But now, we can because simple health simple health is so genius. It's telemedicine that provides simple, convenient, affordable, birth, control and home delivery. This is so on stock these people to come on the podcast because I because for twenty dollars, basically, you can get your per pack. You can get your birth control delivered every month. Right. So you don't have to drive down to the thing. You don't have to worry. You don't have all I ran out or. Yeah. Let me get over there. I mean, you still have to get your Pap smears and checkups and whatever it's not like a replacement for the routine of as women we need to get these things checked out lesbians. I'm talking to you too. If I don't buy stranger than I'm just not healthy is the way it goes. Right is what the medical profession? I mean, it's what's in the book. So you still have to do that. However, once you take care of that, you call them up you fill out this thing all edgy was fill up this thing online. And then they decided that I was eligible and now they're sending it to my house. 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If you thought that was frustrating now, it's time for a new segment called fuck, you Mitch McConnell. Time. It's not okay. Thank you. Is. This is our new segment called fuck, you Mitch McConnell. The information that you're about to hear is going to vote every single negative emotion on the spectrum simultaneously. The segment will not have a happy ending. And the only light at the end of the tunnel is death, either his or hours we wanted literally want to call this episode. Mitch McConnell must die. But ROY black warned us that it could be considered a crime. So we're probably not going to do it. But we're sells more fide by what a monster. Mitch McConnell is that we might be willing to risk going to jail or paying a fine in order to publicly fantasize about his death. I mean, it's so on Thursday, brandy, and I were eating Chinese food out of Chinese restaurant. And that made us think of Mitch McConnell's wife, Elaine Chao because she's Chinese. We talked about Elaine Chao and how we're all through. We wondered what fuck what the fuck? She married. Mitch mcconnell. Just looks wise. I mean, literally, just physically speaking just physically we started going is it for money. What's the deal? How did they meet? What was she? She have to do to. They don't have kids. Why is your skin so wax it? Oh, you know what? I mean. Why is his why are they both waxing? Right. So we googled it. And turns out so Mick turtle second marriage. He was married before. And he has three daughters. Elaine has no children and is probably never had sex with the turtle. I don't think they've had. I mean, I don't think they have. I think that he made a deal with her cocaine dealing father in China. I think they signed documents. Oh, yeah. And then lane was turned over to have. I don't really know. But I don't believe they've ever made sweet beautiful. Turtle love if they've made turtle love, it's definitely like Handmaid's tale style where somebody held her down. He just did it quick. We'll she's pretend an so accent and grat ski too. So we're not even gonna get into Elaine Chao because we can't even deal. We went in with Lia. We should have recorded it. Because she's got she's got a shipping company. She's a department transportation secretary. She did nothing slipped. Boeing have fifty million planes fall out of the sky. She does dick. She has the family has a cargo transport shipping company and their drug dealer drug dealers. And she's letting their seeking of cargo coming over the border elaine's bringing it over the border. Elaine singlehandedly, I'm quite sure and her family are supplying most of America with cocaine. Yeah, they're mad. They don't wanna come from Mexico because they're looking for it to come from China. Right. So googling at the Chinese restaurant and going through it brought us to Mitch McConnell's Wikipedia page. And it was there that my life was forever changed. I learned things that day that I cannot on learn my head was unfortunately and accidentally pulled out of my ass. And now, I can't no matter how hard I try get it back up there since I'm stuck with it like this every single fourteen of you must suffer too because I cannot be alone. With how scary he is. And I don't want to be the only dumb person who now knows that he's controlling everything in Washington and has been since before Obama now, we're basically going to read you guys the salient points from his Wikipedia page. That's going to be a lot of reading this is how shady he is that if you just look on wick wick opinion age, would you possibly look at where they are actually making a judgment about you. Yeah. Pedia literally on them. We competed page is basically saying like, this is a monster. And they won't look a pedia won't let you do dick. Unless you have source after source. It was the bibliography was in mile long of political scientists being like a shady scary fuck, Dr democracy in the country. Oh, he makes me want to get back on Twitter. I saw you know what? I mean. I'm going to tweet out him out him. I'm to do. This is what this is what it's for. This is what I did. It's for now, we urge you to go back and read it yourselves pass it onto your friends and families posted on douche book, and thirsty Graham, do whatever it takes to pop the bubble of ignorance that most people are living in okay, Mitch McConnell is the reason for everything bad happening legislatively in this country. He's the reason that no problems get solved, and no progress is ever made. And if he's not stopped rich corporate conservatives and religious assholes are going to own Washington and therefore this country. I mean, it's the most important piece of work. We will do aside from Bill Browder and Trump gate this this is this make for me personally. And I know I already said it this makes Trump gate like just talk just the Thursday for me like Trump and Russia and even a Saudi Arabia and Qatar is nothing compared to this Mitch McConnell shit. This absolutely fucking is a nightmare. This information is so unsettling. It's crazy. So Mitch McConnell is a member of the Republican party. He was elected to the Senate in nineteen Eighty-four, and he's been reelected five times since then in November two thousand six McConnell was elected Senate minority leader he held that post until twenty fifteen when Republicans took control of the Senate, and he became Senate majority leader, which is what he is today. He is the majeur. Leader. He got elected Senator of Kentucky in nineteen Eighty-four. Barely winning only by like fifty thousand votes. He was the first Republican to win Kentucky since nineteen sixty eight. And he used the popularity of then president Ronald Reagan to win that shit nineteen Eighty-four gave us so many life changing artists to prints. Madonna Michael Jackson, and now we can add Mitch McConnell to that list. Whoever thought who would have it's really strange nineteen Eighty-four really did like market turning point from for America. And it's funny that he's on that for me. It is it is because who would have thought that because we all think of nine hundred eighty four and we think of music. Yeah. Certainly movie Cobra just say, no, right? Mad aids all of it and Mitch McConnell. So just knowing that he's he's in Kentucky. And that there hasn't been there wasn't a Republican before him. And that he's he's elected every year. I feel strongly that the democratic committee. Should send a huge amount of budget. And I don't know why they haven't done this. I don't know if Democrats aren't strategic. I really don't know. Maybe they're just not power mongers. But I don't understand why you don't make a strategic move in a state that seems so ripe for the taking. They don't care about him. They don't give a fuck. They're not informed. Send somebody down take. Brittany jacks. Jackson girlfriend, right and have a run. And they'll all be like, we love Andrew pump. Brittany. I swear and they should care about Mitch McConnell. They know that he's the one obstructing everything damn ship Kentucky people don't know what I'm saying. So I think Democrats should be strategic, and and send all the budget. Make a bunch of commercials for Kentucky, whoever they want a democrat elected. So that we can get him out of there. Because after you hear this you're going to see it's important that the motherfucker. Okay. Early in his career. He was a pragmatist and a moderate, but he veered much farther to the right over time when gaining power and getting reelected became more important to him than his actual job of representing Kentucky as a Senator. So Alex McGillis biography of Mitch McConnell. He said that Mitch McConnell transformed quote from a moderate Republican who supported abortion rights and public employee unions to the embodiment embodiment of partisan obstructionism and conservative orthodoxy on Capitol Hill. The biographer argued that McConnell's transformation was here we go driven less by a shift in ideological convictions. Instead by a desire to win elections and stay in power at all costs. And that's what he's been doing ever since. And it's pretty clear, it's a well known fact that Republicans blocked Obama at every turn making it. Impossible for him to get any legislation through. So Mitch McConnell was the asshole that spearheaded that it wasn't a Republican strategy a Mitch McConnell strategy. And he proved it Bill after Bill after Bill after Bill after Bill, you guys have all heard that even if you didn't realize it or didn't digest it. We've all heard that like the minute Obama got in. They put a blockade up. There was nothing. He could do to get anything through. Right. But now understanding that it was literally Mitch McConnell, right? Julian I just learned this year that he was the gatekeeper within the last year that he was the gatekeeper and understanding that he was the gatekeeper with Obama. There's no thing that I could take more personally than that. Oh, well, the second that Obama gun in the he he said he was he was committed to making Obama just a one term president. So he's he's been widely described as having engaged in obstructionism during a bama's presidency in October twenty ten he said, quote, a single most important thing we want to achieve is for president. Obama to be a one term president the single most important thing you want to achieve is for Obama to be fail. I guess you didn't achieve your most important goal during bombs presidency minority of -struction reached an all time. They did not even have the didn't have the Senate. They didn't have the house, and they didn't have the White House, and they minority beat the majority because of Mitch fucking McConnell. I can't take it McConnell insisted that any Bill passing through the Senate needed a super majority, which is sixty votes rather than fifty why they're all letting this and fucking turtle tell them what to do all never know. I know I don't understand. I was trying to understand about how like the rules and how it works. And with the the I don't understand why one person gets the call these things like the nuclear option and the other terms that they use where it's like why is this who and why and who've let him do it and. I don't get it. We need somebody to come on here to explain to us how congress works. You know what I mean? You know, what I mean, he just has the balls. Democrats. Don't do it McConnell justified. The obstructionism by falsely claiming that the sixty vote threshold was the historical norm in the Senate. But it wasn't the norm. He made it the norm. Mitch mcconnell. Mitch McConnell is described as the major figure along with Newt Gingrich another other shit in transforming the Republican party into a quote party geared increasingly nut to governing but to making governance impossible facing off against Obama. He worked to deny even minimal Republican support for major presidential initiatives initiatives that were as a rule in keeping with the moderate model of decades past and often with moderate Republican stances of a few years past they stopped trying to even legislate. It was all about moves like it was all about power. It was all about regaining the White House and not about legislating if you let that sink in Obama got elect. Eight and like it's now twenty nineteen that's eleven years that we have not had any legislation at all except for fucking ObamaCare, which he had to do an executive order to get another trying to stop it. And it's like this motherfucker stop like everything it's crazy. You don't care about legislating know, but they love to blame Obama for not anything happening. When really it's Mitch McConnell's fault, political scientists have referred to McConnell's use of the filibuster. Now, here's where we get very fucking crucial as constitutional hardball, referring to the misuse of procedural tools in a way that undermines democracy, so Mamale filibuster is like what when they go to a big long speech. Yeah, they can stand there for hours and hours and hours stopping any movement. So so say, they're going to say, okay. Let's pass a voter thing. Then somebody wrote his rolls out there. Nancy Pelosi rolls out of tennis shoes. Diaper on. And she's like, all right? The thing with voting is guys when people vote here's what they do. They wake up. They have a Cup of coffee. They roll down. They I'm sorry. Let me back up they stopped. They go to the bathroom. Hold on. Yep. They they pull their pants down. On the toilet h out. The finest the details the details, right. Like what an eighteen hour fucking speech. So that it kills the legislation because they only have a certain number of hours. Right. So if I'm to read to you, the definition of a filibuster. Okay. An action such as a prolonged speech that obstructs progress in the legislative assembly while not technically contravening the required procedures it holds up the vote in some way, they might have a limited amount of time on the floor. But it holds up the vote so McConnell used the filibuster nonstop. When Obama was in office when he was the Republicans were a minority. So by twenty thirteen Senate majority leader, Harry Reid. Okay. This is a democrat. I would think. No, maybe not. Oh, yeah. It was because he became what you call it in two thousand fifteen eliminated the filibuster all presidential nominations, except the supreme court. By the time 2013 had rolled around half of all the filibusters in the history of the Senate. Okay. The history. Okay. We're done during a bomb a-. Gamma? That means there's been one hundred in history. Fifty of them were during a Bama do guys bookie. I literally have not stopped thinking. I'm talking about round the clock about how badly Obama wants to kick. His fucking Obama must go workout. And he's gonna kick your fucking athlete. Does. He want to go beat his ass into the ground. Yes. He does. He just to the ground and just because he also wants to like like I want to see some really gross. Him. And Michelle wanna go. Wanted to write Mitch McConnell's want him to get raped raped. I I have never I can't even I can't. I don't think I've ever heard you hate somebody. So I can't express it makes me so scared. It's not fair. It's not Justice. It's not the way the systems meant to be the fact that he's been allowed to do it. The fact that no one knows the fact that he banks on the fact that we're all ignorant fucking assholes watching fucking luanne Dallas with our head up our fucking ads and he's right. The fact that he's the Senator of Kentucky not give fuck about Kentucky. Don't know. What's going on? No. Neither do I. But they don't and we could get Jackson Britney elected. I mean, like, it's so easy to take that state and the Democrats have done nothing and they're sitting by for eleven years, and let them do this. It's it's insane. That's what he's even insane. Yeah. Well, that's what's even more. When we we've talked about Democrats being like pussies or letting things go and now, it's even more. It's just like the fact that we now know that they've let Mitch McConnell do everything he wants to do literally. As if I'm watching a twelve year old boy. Jeet do things to me. Yeah. Or and. With it. But walk around on apple. I know somebody producer intern somebody for Bill Maher's listening to this. And I know so you can go ahead and put it on Bill Maher's. So that it can be taken to the masses instead of fourteen fucking people. He is such a fucking asshole that in twenty twelve and this is what really gets you this almost made you crash the truck when I read this to you in twenty twelve Mitch McConnell proposed a measure allowing President Obama to raise the debt ceiling. Okay. So he did this hoping that democratic senators would oppose the measure, and they it would cause all this infighting and it would demonstrate like disunity among Democrats one of his moves. He's like does this now too literally. Now, he just did it with the green new deal. So he he puts up this measure that allows Obama to raise the debt ceiling, and he thought all the Democrats would fight. But instead, they all voted. Yes. So he had to fill a BUSTER. His. He. Because nothing could get done. It did not matter. Nothing could get done. Nothing could get done. Right. And he doesn't want anything to get done. Because now he can blame Obama for done. That's right. And that is what everybody's done. And that's what Trump does now. And that's what every ball. The republicans. Do is the worst president. He was the worst president why? We'll nothing. Well, nothing that because Mitch McConnell, correct? Mcconnell delayed and obstructed healthcare reform and banking reform, which were the two landmark pieces of legislation that Democrats sought to get past early in Obama's tenure by delaying democratic priority. Legislation McConnell, again, he fucking stopped everything he stymie the output of congress. So political scientists describe it this way by slowing action even on measures supported by Republicans. Mitch McConnell capitalized on the scarcity of floor time, forcing Democrats into difficult trade-offs concerning which measures were worth pursuing. So they knew they would have no floor time because of him. So they'd be like, okay. Do we want this or do this do this which in turn limited the number of bills that could even be seen much less voted on? God the New York Times noted early during a bomb administration that quote on the major issues not just health care, but financial regulation and the economic stimulus package among others. Mitch McConnell has kept the Republicans so aligned with him which allowed him to slow the democratic agenda and actually defeat many aspects of it that was the thing he was keeping them all. And and I'd like to ask them. I wish that we could ask them why I think he takes how he takes them in a room. And he tells them his strategy, which is which we're going to tell you guys what the strategy is. But I think that's what he does. I think he takes them back there and says we fuck it. Let's just wait because the people who aren't creatures and monsters fucking slots are like no we want to help. I want to help my constituents. Don't fuck impasse this. I'm not going to get reelected Mitch. And he's like, let's just wait. Let's wait and get Obama out of there. Let's not pass anything. We'll get out of there. We'll get a Republican president. We can pass everything you want. But let's just wait. And that's. What he tells them so McConnell's refusal to allow a bomber two seat supreme court Justice would was described by political scientists and legal scholars as unprecedented and a culmination of this confrontational style a blatant abuse of constitutional norms and a classic example of constitutional hardball. So Scalia died, Merrick garland was had already maybe gotten one was it. Well, he got the what's her name. The first Latino lady a- soda, my our Bama gets the one lady because he's fucking gangster Antonin Scalia dis Di okay, he's going to bring in Meerut garland, and in an unprecedented move Mitch McConnell is like, Nope. Nope. Everyone in the whole world is like what are you talking like sorry? Two people died. That's the way the cookie crumbles bitch. That's the way the cookie crumbles and he refused refused. And then waits until stupid. Fuck. Trump gets in puts stupid Neal Gorsuch with the stupid gold, convertible fucking gamers, eighties and. They get that other guy to retire. Kennedy. And now we got the fucking game rapist. Yup. Brick and you don't see Democrats going because the deal is in Bergen explain this, but they stopped filibusters for everything except supreme court. So he basically filibustered merit garland. Okay. Right. But then after America Orland. Before Trump got in McConnell took filibustering away for supreme court justices because he knew that the second that some Republican president that the Democrats yet, and he was any new that he took it away. And now they have to and his whole plan is all about the judges. That's his whole plan and the Justice as we fucking from Jesse small and even max we read his letter earlier, even he knows the Justice system is so fucked so corrupt and now they want to corrupt it even more. Once they own the Justice system, the court of appeals court all of it on down they own everything they decide everything every fucking law. Fuck congress. They can circumvent every law in the constitution with the Justice system. Mitch mcconnell. Excuse me. Mitch McConnell is literally like the emperor in Star Wars and Trump is like Darth Vader. They called him the Darth Vader of politics. Mitch McConnell, but I would argue that he's actually the the the higher than Darth Vader. Mitch McConnell the emperor. The guy is at this point. He's running everything he's the one and people don't know where it's coming from to a dark shadow. It's there's like a he's like he seems normal sometimes that are normal, man. And then the normal man goes in different areas. Like a monster. That's Mitch McConnell. I'm so passionate about how much he needs to go that we can't even make the title the title because I will literally get we will literally at arrested because I won't be able to say they won't be able to say, but you didn't mean it, and I'll be like, no. But I did mean it. So as part of his obstruction strategy, and as the leading Republican Senator McConnell, confronted and pressured other Republican senators who cared about policy substance, and who were willing to negotiate with Democrats and the Obama administration political scientists pure party line voting has been evident now for some time. But rarely has the tactic of opposition ISM been. So boldly state is stated as McConnell did. He was pressuring Republicans left and right, right. And the fact that you're that you're stance that your political like value system is basically just oppose oppose oppose obstruct obstructive shock power power power. He doesn't literally doesn't care about anything. So he believed that any compromises would undermine. This is what you said earlier the Republican party's effort to make big gains in twenty ten and twenty to twelve. So basically Mitch McConnell learned that obstruction and Republican unity was the only way. Way that they could get out of office. So he saw how the Democrats cooperated with the Bush administration on no child left behind and Medicare Part d and because the Democrats cooperated when Bush ran for re election in four he used that to his advantage got reelected, so in Mitch McConnell's mind, he's like we can't work with Obama on anything. Because if he's successful in any way, he'll use it to get reelected. And what I think is. So fucking funny is all he did was stymie any progress or any help or anything to evolve in this country and help this country and. I can't fucking handle it like nothing has happened. Everything's just gotten worse in everything the banking system. Everything is so corrupt pollution booking. I mean, it's an for what Obama was still there. Right for nothing filibusters were safe way to obstruct because filibusters left no fingerprints. When voters that legislation had been defeated, quote, unquote, journalist rarely highlighted that defeat meant minority had blocked a majority minority blocked a majority up and now we're not even allowed to do that because he took it away. Right. And why aren't they trying to get that back? I don't know not only the strategy producing atmosphere of gridlock and dysfunction. That was blamed on Obama. It also chewed up the Senate calendar, restricting the range of issues on which Democrats could make progress. I don't know why Obama also not to whatever with Obama. But. Go around the country gives them speeches on what really happened. And he's a he's not doing anything. We didn't even include in your you guys that when Trump. When Trump and Hillary Clinton were running at the very edge. Everybody always says fucking Brad came on and was like Obama knew about the dossier. And I'm like Brad deduction about above and. And so and everybody always says Obama knew nobody knew that they were going for Bernie. And he and they always imply he never said anything because he didn't like Hillary. And it's like, well, no one does. But so what happened is the FBI in the went to Obama. They went to the leaders of the Republican party, and they went to the leaders of the Democratic Party, and they sat them down. And they said the Russians have compromised the election there in the social media. They're doing fake shit. They've hacked in. They've got her emails. They are fiddling around in here. They're getting into people's minds. They fucked this up we need to tell people that this is what's happening. So that when they go on social media, they understand that that information isn't real and Mitch McConnell. This is a fact go on the Wikipedia, and it is a fact there's nine hundred sources backing it up. He said it to Obama personally if you go on and tell everyone that the Russians are involved in this. I'm going to cues. You of you trying to control the election, and you playing party politics, and you trying to get Democrats elected because you're going to go on and say, the Russians won't Trump and Americans aren't going to vote for the people that Russians one. So he tied of hands. Obama couldn't do shit. I like I need annex. I want to snort it on. I think this is. So fucking scary. I don't know why. He's not sucks that it's a legal. I want him to be arrested. It's so fucked up McConnell new proposals law support the longer they were out there subject to attack. He knew consent delay would drive down the approval ratings of Democrats and Obama like Newt Gingrich McConnell had found a serious flaw in the code of American democracy are distinctive political system gives an anti-government party with a willingness to cripple governance and enormous edge. All you have to be a naysayer a hater and nothing we'll get through. And that is what's been happening. It's become an I said this before become the Super Bowl, and it it's not supposed to be like that. We're not supposed to be competing to win right? Winning the rate of this. Right. It's just he's a fucking power-monger. And he's lost his goddamn wax in mind, and I can't fucking handle it. So what the strategic guidance of these two congressional leaders, which is McConnell and Newt Gingrich Republicans launched a self reinforcing an. Anti status cycle first they made government less functional than they highlighted the dysfunction to build political report for Republicans. And that's what's happening still. And they're still blaming and blaming Democrats and look at how Trump's talks like the Democrats have lost their minds. The Democrats are insane. They're sick. They're sick. People are sick people. And even now, you you are going to read a thing of where McConnell sent a like an open letter about how Democrats need to stop the obstructionism. And it's like. Fucking hypocrite tool wire, we're onto you. Now, you're not going to keep fooling everyone. Yeah. This is why I wanted to. I want to go we're onto you. And I know the only person I want to go into it or four now just constantly tweeted him, and then FBI come and be like, let me serve. Yeah. You need to step back from Senate majority leader McConnell, and I'm like, why don't you? Let them come in here. And let's have a talk. Yeah. We need to. So the university of North Carolina historian Christopher Browning. I the only person I really put in because he wrote if the US has someone whom historians will look back on as the grave digger of American democracy. It is Mitch McConnell. That's the first quote, I'm going to I'm going to tweet at him. Good. Okay. And make sure you have to but you have to put Christopher. That's what I did this. That's what he did. He's stoked. The hyper polarization of American politics to make the Obama presidency as dysfunctional and paralyzed as he possibly could congressional gridlock in the US has diminished respect for democratic norms. Allowing. Mcconnell to trample them even more nowhere. This vicious cycle clearer than the obliteration of traditional precedents concerning judicial appointments systematic obstruction of nominations in Obama's first term provoked Democrats to remove the filibuster for all supreme court nominations. And that's what you said before then McConnell's unprecedented blocking of the Merrick garland nomination required him in turn to scrap the filibuster for supreme court nominations in order to complete the steel of Antonin Scalia and confirm Neal Gorsuch, which that is what we said before too. Exactly now proving what a power grubbing monster. He is his quote pet issue, shall I say is preventing campaign finance reform. The current campaign finance laws are the only thing keeping many of these Republicans in power, including an especially Mitch McConnell who has the lowest rating of all the senators, and he has the lowest approval rating of any Senator in any state if the laws were to change he'd never be able to get reelected. That's why he got right. He has to get money from super PACS. He has to dominate the campaign ads in Kentucky. So they're all like and with all due. I'll go for Mitch McConnell TV fucking, argh. So he led the opposition to stricter campaign. This is the only piece day resist and this entire fucked up segment. He led the opposition to stricter campaign finance laws. And I mean, we all know that is the single most important issue facing this fucking country. We had Heather McGhee on it is the reason corruption exists which culminated in the supreme court ruling and partially overturning the quote bipartisan campaign reform act in two thousand nine here's the t- the bipartisan campaign reform act was John McCain's Bill. Okay. If you don't think I won't dig up John McCain kit. I will I will fucking. I am never more in love with him than I am recently. John McCain, I know wanted to kick his fuck it out. And that's another Republican he stopped a campaign. John McCain fuck with me. I was a prisoner of war you bitch. I mean, although Mitch McConnell did I think fight in the war? So he's in the military. He was in the reserve the reserve. Remember, his whole thing. He letter he had his letter. He's a little. Yeah. Go dad was. Go dad was a judge shit. So I'm sure John McCain should've gotten with Obama, and they should have beat his ass in an alley, and then they should fucking raped. Bipartisan campaign for Maxwell, John McCain's Bill. Okay. And now, we know you guys here's the deal. Mitch McConnell can't fucking take that the Affordable Care Act packed passed on any level. He can't take it right now in this very moment that you're listening to this podcast. Mitch McConnell convinced Trump who's doing his victory lap about the fucking Muller. Reporting to join into a lawsuit which is in the appellate courts to overturn ObamaCare. The Republicans do not have a healthcare plan. They don't have one. They don't have any plan, but McConnell is so fucking mad. That Obama got anything done under his watch was not only did Obama get reelected, which he said he wasn't going to do. He got Bama care and Mitch McConnell has not stopped wanting to kill ObamaCare. And the only reason it's not already gone, why men male John? Came out ended the thumbs-down Honey he was the single vote that killed fucking bullshit. And that is why Obama Care stands, and it was his final fucking, you Mitch McConnell, which is the name of this segment, and it's an honor of John McCain because that was his big old. Fuck you to that asshole? And that's also why Trump keeps going around and keeps bringing up John McCain keeps bringing it up keeps bringing up John and literally in his most latest speech got up and fucking was like a no you'll see healthcare them. We'll just because some guy came down and did the thumbs down. They can't they can't you. Mcconnell you want to vote down campaign? Finance people aren't gonna stand and John McCain scared of you not scared of you, and he's gonna with brain cancer going to do down and go kiss my fucking dying balk off. The goddamn will compete pages to long. Okay. But please go there and read about how he obstructed progress and change in every single fucking area of government and every American's life. Here's the issues campaign. Finance criminal Justice reform, the economy the environment foreign policy, Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Syria, fundraising government, shutdowns guns, healthcare, immigration, judicial nominees, net neutrality and trade. Hey, Bruce Cavanaugh. Mean calving? Nobody liked to call him. Bruce, Bruce Cavanaugh, I know you've been itching to do some raping. So just go, right? Mitch mcconnell. I know and don't write me a letter a letter link maybe knee. I'm care if you're curious about the article that Mitch McConnell road. It's on political magazine, you can just Google time to stop the Democrats obstruction. Mitch McConnell literally today posted this article that he wrote it's called time to stop the Democrats obstruction enough with partisan delays the president's nominees deserve consideration. And you just can't even can't believe they'll leave since he wrote since January twenty seventeen for the first time in memory minority has exploited procedure to systematically, obstruct president from staffing up his administration. That's just a blatant lie because yet did that. And you did it in two thousand and eight and you invented it. Exactly, you invented it. So fuck off he did he did it. So he now currently blocks every piece of legislation. From the Senate floor as we've told you. He's the gatekeeper. He's made it his literal mission to go against Nancy, Pelosi's agenda. No matter what the issue is. No matter if it's a Republican issue, right? He doesn't care he blocked. He's like what is Nancy Pelosi? We're not doing he's in some fucking competition because bucking thimble, dick. So now what's happening the latest and greatest he keeps bringing surprise votes to the floor. So basically most recently he took the green new deal on the Senate floor. He won't vote on voting rights. He won't he won't vote on anything bringing votes that are of any consequence. He brings the green new deal knowing no one's ready to vote on that. It's not even really ready to be voted on. So that he could prove that it's a stupid piece of shit and Democrats aren't for it. He wanted to make some statement to Andrea Cossio Cortez. He's he's a little bitch. And instead all the Democrats instead of fighting among each other like he wanted them to do they all just voted present. That's at least they did that. Okay. You know, how I always lie? Pretend I read books that. I haven't read. Yes. So I don't know why do this. I think I want to keep the momentum of the conversation going, and my good friend this girl. She does my lashes. Right. And you're stuck there for like an hour and a half while she's doing the lashes, and she was like dying to get the Michelle Obama book. And so she got it. She didn't bring it up till almost my lashes. And she's like girl, did you? Did you get the Michelle Obama book? And I'm like, yeah. Like, isn't it? Good. And I'm like, oh my God. It's so good, and she starts going into detail and my lashes finish. And I'm like thank God. But what am I going to do? Should I change people? Even though she's a good friend. Should I move out of LA shy kill myself? So what I did is. I got this shit is so genius. It's called a blinking. Okay. So they have all these like nonfiction like type self-help politics history. Like any book that's not like fucking angels and demons whenever the Vinci. Not like that. It's like Michelle Obama's book writing. Then they cut it down to like the key parts of the book. So you don't really have to read it. I can't take it. I can't take it and it's audio too. So I didn't even have to read the cliff notes. I got to go on with my life. And like listen to it on my way to the lashes, and then go, and it'd be like could you believe that they got their lives threat? Can you believe that we've got death threats? What you don't know is that I've been using it to prepare for this podcast. And I haven't read one thing or I've actually read a concise version of it from blankets or listen to it because for people like me who cannot pay attention to a whole book who can't sit through an entire book who can't sit and read and read and read and read and read and read no, you want this to be you want the best parts you want the highlights you want. What's good, and that's nonfiction books. It's not like a fiction book, which can cap captivate you, and it's almost like you're watching a movie, and it could be like fifty shades of grey, right? Going to put that down. But when you're reading about how to like stop being fat. It's like sometimes you just lose focus can go eat or when it's like well. Yes. Stop having a shitty attitude. I'm like fuck. I don't want to hear this find your gratitude, it only takes one page. You know, what I mean, it doesn't take more than? I get the point. I got it. All you just need to tell me once. And maybe I'll listen to it every day. But it's like we don't need to go for an hour. We need to do one for a few minutes. And then we're good. It's true. We're listening to one now on hydration. And I know the full book was like really padded, and we are low. Yes. In condensed one, and we can get it down and fifteen minutes, and it's so great. It's better than even listening to a podcast because it's shorter. I don't need someone's hole. And then when I was traveling through Prague, I found that. And I was like I don't care. I wanna know the secret. I wanna know what's going on. I want you to tell me the way to do it need to know, just the stuff. Yeah. Gimme the four agreements. Four bullet points by telling me, the actual four agreements. Not like all the stories. Eckhart tollway. Gimme tell me what the power of now is now a page right now. I don't want to find out in three weeks when I'm done with the boat. No. And do it with somebody who doesn't have an accent. Which is what I'm really enjoying. And right now. For a limited time blink has a special offer just for our audience. Go to blink dot com slash. Digi p to start your free seven day trial. It is so worth it. That's blinking. Spelled B L I N K. I S T blinking dot com slash DIGI p to start your free seven-day trial. That's blink dot com slash DIGI p. Now, it's time for so there's that. All right. So this is the part of the show where Juliet defined a so there's that moment that's happening because of our in spite of the nightmare called our government. She hates doing it because it's fucking impossible. And I don't blame her. But after learning what a dick fuck Mitch McConnell is we could all really us. So there's that right now. So man now, which come up with nine mean always. It seems a little. Okay. Well, what can you do? There's not really a so that I can tense episode that we've ever made. I'm sorry that my so there's that is like last night, I raped Mitch McConnell. I mean, we ask cancer anything anything anything lease God. Well, this is going to seem a little trite. But let's try and think of it in a gram scale. Okay. It does get harder and harder. And I I really even stopped writing it halfway through. I was just going to talk. But I did find this little story, and it really did warm the Daikos of my heart and as a. I haven Tate to say that I'm gender non conforming because I don't even feel that way anymore woman. And that's it. And the way I present myself as just the way present myself, but I do have to say that the freedom to decide what I wear is probably one of the greatest gifts. I have an order to find some semblance of physical comfort. I would die. If I was forced to wear a skirt or address, I would die. And I know that sounds who cares wearing address whatever Mitch McConnell needs to get raped. You know, but if you really just, you know, think about what you wear and how it makes you feel and just that little bit of freedom and that little bit of comfort, and even when you feel bad or you feel insecure. It's just you're at least choosing what you want someone forces you to be innovating suit. Right. And you get your job. Right. And you're like, no, I don't I can't be forced to do that. I just right. So exposed right? Exactly. Now women in the military and in other sex. Ters of American life are still forced to wear skirts or dresses as part of their uniforms while men are still given the freedom and courtesy of wearing pants now, I'm not against uniforms at all fits specific to the thing that needs a uniform. It's not a thing that turns me on. But as far as like things needing a uniform, they need a uniform, so fine. However, when you delineate women's wearing skirts and men wearing pants, you right there that is a form of sexual assault. And it's not wearing a skirt fucking uncomfortable. And you can't do the same things. A man can do in pants. You just cannot you're worried about your fucking underwear your legs or fucking hanging out. You can't do running because you probably have to wear stupid fucking heels. And it's just like a whole thing. It's not you can't kick ass in this car. You can't kick ass in a skirt. You're not going to go kick someone's ass in an alley a skirt. Or if you do you have to take your shoes off, and you're just like fuck it. I'm going to pull this thing up. Heater all bleeding, or whatever the foreign can do it in that one movie. Right. So I'm just saying, okay. I think removing now in in schools. There's also still uniforms in schools, Catholic, schools and religious, schools and other military schools. People have to wear these kids were uniforms now when it comes to schools actually, kind of like not that against it. Because I think removing the sigma fashioned from kids lives can be a good thing. Yes. You know, what I made it still be pants. Exactly if equalize is everyone economically and all the body shapes and identities are all on the same level. However, there are still many schools that in their uniform policy make girls where dresses or skirts and boys get to wear pants, and it drives me fucking crazy. And I know is watching this thing on the military where like trans people. And if if they banned trans people from the military, or whatever they don't accept somebody's gender identity. If you identify as a certain gender, but they don't recognize it you will be forced to wear the clothing of the gender that you that they say that you are rather than what you say that you are, and regardless of that it's just like let everyone we're fucking pants, especially in the military. I digress. There's a school in North Carolina that was making girls skirts. But a judge ruled recently that requiring girls to where skirts. At school, violates the constitution. And I showed it to your. Quote, the skirts the skirts requirement causes the girls to suffer a burden the boys do not simply because they are female. The ruling stated a North Carolina schools policy requiring girls to wear skirts as part of their uniform was struck down by a federal judge for violating the constitution's. Equal protection clause the skirts requirement causes the girls to suffer a burden the boys. Do not have wrote US district. Judge Malcolm Harris in his ruling. I'm so glad it was a guy. Yes. The lawsuit against charter day school in Leland was originally filed in two thousand sixteen by the ACLU on behalf of three students h five ten and fourteen. One of the kids said I created a petition to ask my school to change its policy that says girls have to wear skirts school or risk being punished. I mean being punished my friends, and I got more than one hundred signatures on our petition. But it was taken from us by teacher. And we never got it back. Now, we're turning to the ACLU for help. The students lawsuit argued that skirts requirement was a distraction from academe IX inhibited, physical activity and required girls to be cold and uncomfortable school claimed that the skirts requirement and other policies requiring quote, chivalry were necessary part of their mission to instill traditional values and establish discipline. Get out of my business. Yep. Guy can be chivalrous when girls wearing pants. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm not against chivalry. I think should open the door for woman. I do. And I don't care if the woman looks like me open the fucking door, and I don't need the wind blowing up my skirt gangs. You don't it contended? These policies contributed to respect between Sudanese and academe ick success under the school's policy punishment for violating the dress code range from calling parents to remove them from class and possible expulsion, but no student was ever expelled. The plaintiffs in this case of showing that the girls are subject to a specific clothing requirement that renders them unable to play freely during recess requires them to sit in an uncomfortable manner in the classroom causes them to be overly focused on how they're sitting distracts them from learning and sub subjects them to cold temperatures on their legs and or uncomfortable layers of leggings under their knee length skirts in order to stay warm, especially moving outside between classrooms at the school. Defendants have offered no evidence of any comparable burden on boys. So I just want to say, I think that's great girls should be able to wear motherfucking pants if they want to because. Yeah. Their legs are cold. And like, I'm just happy that it happened. It doesn't mean that you're gay or straight. There's no sexuality put on it. But the fact that girls can just wear pants boys can wear pants and everybody's wearing pants. You know, why? Because it's more comfortable, you're freed up. You don't have to worry. Your legs aren't out your pussy, or you Dickson, you balls aren't hanging out. You're not sitting on your balls sitting on your pussy balls. Nothing. Is you're not. Worried all you're doing is fucking sitting there and focusing on what exactly that you have to focus on. So thank you very much judge. And I'm glad that all those girls get to now where pants so there's them. So that's it for this episode of dumb gay politics. Thank you guys for listening. We love you all so much. We look at your picks on the bulletin board. And appreciate you every day. We hate everyone. Who doesn't listen to this podcast? That is true Mitch McConnell, but I'm going to get you to listen. Now, we won't hate you. If you don't listen to our patriot podcast won't love you as much as the people who do. So if you want the deepest of our love go sign up for our patriots podcast, patriot dot com slash dumb, gay politics. It's only one dollar pays for this this one. And if you haven't yet, please leave us a review on itunes, just go on there and hit five stars. So the number of reviews go up I didn't care hit one star whatever we just want to pretend that we have more than fourteen listeners. So when we Email Pete Buddha, judge or Alexandria Cossio Cortes, or when we re Email Adam Schiff, they consider coming on for an extra ten seconds before deleting the Email and deciding. That's right. And we're also going to contact Kellyanne Conway and Omarosa manigault. So we want the reviews the number of reviews to be high. So that it just it just gives us some cachet when we're trying to get the big guests like Bill Browder. That's right. And as always it's been real, and it's been mostly it's been gay, and it's been dumb. Mitch mcconnell. Do. Little bro. When you knocked. Ken. Don't get song out, by the way. To judge a book by its. Much of a man. Day one. Justice. Trey sexual. Let me. So you play with. Black won something physio. Two of us. We could take an Steve Reeves move. I'm at home. Could we use your phone? In a bit of a hurry. We'll just say where we are then go back to the car. We don't want to be any worry. How about that? Well, babies don't you? Civil. Mccain is Justice. Sexual. Won't you stay for the night? Be a. I could show you my favorite obsession. I've been making a man. Blown hair and tanned. He's good at the relieving, man. Tension, Justice trends. From. Sexual. Sans. Sucks. So come up to the left and see what's on. I see you civic with an. But. Is really playing. Remove the. But not the symptom.

Mitch McConnell President Obama Adam Schiff Democrats president Donald Trump Trump Devin Nunes Republican party Robert Muller America Julian brandy Bill Maher Bill Browder Russia Bill Kentucky Senate Mike Conaway
Tuesday 20 November

Monocle 24: The Globalist

58:45 min | 2 years ago

Tuesday 20 November

"You're listening to the globalist. I focus on the twentieth of November two thousand eighteen on monocle twenty four the globalist in association with ups. Hello. This is the globalist coming to you live from Madari house in London. I'm Georgina Godwin on the show ahead like Mazzini you to have precious families. So whatever our disagreements for the sake of common humanity. It's time to let her and the others come home. Last month, the British Foreign Secretary made an impassioned plea to Iran's leaders today. He becomes the first western leader to visit Tehran since the US withdrew from the Iran nuclear deal. We ask whether it can be Selva GED and most of the fate of imprisoned British Iranian nationals as the EU considered adopting the Magnitsky act the man behind the legislation. Bill Browder is accused of his murder now that Russia looks set to head up INTERPOL. Will he face extradition plus Kenya? Launches a coastguard service for the first time, but with just one boat to patrol one thousand miles of coastline. How effective will it be? And we'll take a look at the international space station which today celebrates its twentieth. Anniversary with papers and business news to that's all ahead right here on the globalist life from London. Jeremy hunt the British Foreign Secretary arrived in Iran yesterday. It's the first time he's been there. And it also marks the first visit by a western foreign ministers since the US withdrew from the Iran nuclear deal in may Washington reimposed sanctions on Tehran less than a fortnight ago. Well, joining me now is son. I'm vaca lose an associate fellow Middle East and North Africa pergram Chessen house to have a look at this story fan. I'm one of the primary reasons for this. Visit is an attempt to sell the nuclear deal. The US may have pulled out, but the other signatories Britain, France, Germany, Russia and China still trying to make it work. Have we had any feedback from the meeting on not aspects of the compensation yet? No, not quite in feedback. But we do know that Jeremy hunt has taken a number of messages to Iran, and the plan is to reassure the Iranians that every effort is being made to provide political defense of the nuclear agreement as well as to guarantee the economic incentives will come to fruition. And there's been a bit of the problem around the creation of what is known as special purpose vehicle a mechanism that would allow for banking transfers to continue. So that has been held up because of negotiations as to who is going to house this this mechanism to allow for financial transactions to continue with Iran, but Britain and the three and the European Union remain very committed to agreement is it sitting up conflicts between the US and the fire. Remaining signatures. I mean could Washington extent punitive measures to include them. Yes, they could. And of course, the threat of further sanctions both on individuals and on entities is a part of the problem. However, I'm of the mindset that Washington is already looking for ways to re engage with the European Union. And specifically with the three partners, Germany, France and the United Kingdom because it's unilateral approach visibly. Iran is not necessarily going to result in tangible outcomes or negotiations and Washington is going to start looking to the three two may be a carry the water in in this standoff at and begin to see if they can come to the negotiating table. Now. The war in Yemen is on the agenda two according to the foreign office, which says hunt will urge. Urge the Iranian government to halt the supplies to who 'this and give its full backing to the coming peace talks in Stockholm. What more can you tell us on this? Well, this is really important, and there's been some momentum on ending the Yemen war also in the aftermath of the brutal killing of the journalist Jamal Khashoggi. And Jeremy hunt was also in Saudi Arabia just a few days ago. And so he carried this message and this urgency to end the war, and this momentum is actually becoming quite global. The United States is calling to end the war. Other European countries are also doing so so putting significant pressure on both Saudi Arabia and Iran to come to the negotiating table and to bring the who seems to the negotiating table on. The Iranian side is is really important right now and everyone wants to make this happen by the end of the year. I mean Iran has in fairness denied arming the who season the seemed to be some double stunned that's going on here, which the. Iranians have picked up on namely that the west including the UK so weapons to the Saudi led coalition, which obviously has been bombing Yemen for the last three years as we know horrific figures fifteen thousand people dead another fifty thousand dying from firm and caused by the conflict Iran's going, well, you kind of culpable to the UK. Yes, indeed. And Iran has always been very depth at exposing new sort of contradictory and hypocritical attitudes. But itself is also it Ron also taking advantage of the situation, and is providing much more than moral and political support to the who is maybe not directly, but it's training and equipping the who thieves and the relationship that maybe wasn't as strong in twenty fifteen when the conflict broke out in the war began has developed into much more much more mutually beneficial relationships. So we can't take the Iranians at their word also as I mean, and there's a UN resolu-. Shen now tabled uncouth these talks happening in Stockholm. Do we think that everyone moves sign up to those? Well, yes, I do think everyone is going to sign up because of the international pressure to end the conflict right now, it doesn't necessarily mean that the conflict will come to an end. But we are now moving out of the maybe more intense fighting stage and moving into a more more intense negotiating stage. We'll just take a long time, however in order to reconcile all of the different positions. And even it's worth noting that there are different positions even between the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia in Yemen. So I think that the negotiating stage is going to be quite difficult. No hunt will be discussing this face of jailed dual nationals in the country. Pleading Nazanin Zagorje rut cliff the British Arabian woman, who's been imprisoned. I think for two and a half years so far charged with spying. We know that that was a message. He was very very keen to take to Iran. Let let my people go, essentially. Yes. And this is really urgent actually because obviously not just any, but Naza Nian and others have been detained. Now, I believe there are around five or six dual British nationals that are detained in Iran have been there for a long time, and the Iranian government has not been moving their cases along or providing any sort of visible effort at securing their release. And and so the foreign office has actually increase sort of travel warning to dual nationals to make sure that nobody else gets detained. And this is also important because supposedly there over thirty Iranian dual nationals from many different countries as well. And this sort of leverage that the Iran. Indian government or maybe factions within the Iranian government are using against the west is also really not not not productive and coming at the expense of these individuals. So this message is really critical. And I think Jeremy hunt wants to see some positive steps forward on Naza needs caves in particular, and this this could ease some tensions on both sides as well. I mean, you you mentioned factions and there's been very little progress. In in the case of the gory radcliff, an I wonder if the United States pulling the plug on the nuclear deal strengthens, the hands of hardliners, I mean, president Ronnie's reformist government might be funny at difficult act on that as a direct result of of of the of the nuclear deal falling apart. Yes. The factional tensions are definitely increased right now, though, there is this Kuzma -tic veil of unity among the factions where their differences might be papered over in order to. Be United in the face of resistance. And so that's what's holding everybody together. But there is an opportunity for conservative factions to capitalize on the US withdrawal and to put forward their own plan or strategy in the next election. Parliament will be reelected in twenty twenty and the presidency twenty twenty one and the fact that president RoH Honey has not been able to save the nuclear agreement or to bring the economic plans that he had put forward to fruition definitely weakened, salmon and his allies. So I mean, finally, we know it's an incredibly complex policy system whose Jeremy hunt actually negotiating with. Well, he's speaking with the foreign ministry and he's speaking to president Ronnie's team. Maybe he's also having meetings, and I don't know this with people close to Iran's supreme leader as well. And that's important. Because I in all political systems, there are factions and Iran is not unique to that. So I think it's important to speak to influencers all around. So whether they're advisers close to alley harmony at these meetings or not, I don't know. But he would be well advised to be speaking to those individuals as well, son. I'm thank you very much. Indeed. That was son him vocal the his what else would keeping an eye on today. Officials have confirmed that Evonne could Trump daughter US President Donald Trump is used a personal E mail address for White House business during his two thousand sixteen campaign for the presidency. Donald Trump lamb busted, his rival Hillary Clinton I similar offense. He claimed that the misstep was bigger than Watergate and threatened to imprison Clinton. If elected Ivanka's lawyer claims hone fuction was based upon a simple misunderstanding. China's domestic surveillance policy continues. Paces? Beijing has announced plans to roll out a citizen point system by two thousand twenty one. The system would see Beijing's municipality awarding personal trustworthiness points to citizens and firms. This information will be used to determine access to the likes of public services and travel and reportedly operates on the principle of once untrustworthy always restricted and the China of walking El Chapo Guzman who stands accused of. Heading up Mexico's brutal similar drug cartel continues in New York. Jurors have heard that Guzman ordered numerous murders, including one of a man for refusing to shake his hand. The Charles been conducted under heavy security following two. Previous successful escapes if found guilty. Guzman faces life in prison, this is the globalist. Stay tuned. Bill broader has been called Russia's most wanted man and now Russian authorities of announce new charges against the US Boone investor. Prosecutors accused him of being responsible for a group which embezzled funds in Russia. They also said they suspect that Browder was behind the death of his lawyer Sergei Magnitsky Browde has been leading a campaign to bring Magnitsky's killers to Justice in the course of which he pushed through legislation in the US, which impose travel and financial sanctions on top Russian. Individuals is cool the Magnitsky act and has been adopted by several other countries tomorrow. The European Union will consider a pun e you Magnitsky act will not guilty is the principal director of Mayak intelligence and a nonresident fellow at the institute of international relations in Prague. He joins me on the line. Mark the timing of these Russian accusations is really interesting. I mean, I you have the meeting in the Hague on Wednesday which might significantly expand. Magnitsky act, but possibly more importantly, the international police agency holds a general assembly this week, it's widely believed that Alexander Prokop Chuck who served in the Russian interior ministry for many years will be elected secretary general of the organization so previously interposed dismissed international arrest warrants for Browder with the Russian in charge. This may not be the case. This may not be the case, we shouldn't overplay this. It's not that if the Russian of the helm all of a sudden INTERPOL become an extension of the Kremlin. Let's be honest before. And we don't know if it will be Russian there was a Chinese director and the Chinese are equally. We're used to using both political purposes. But absolutely I mean, this is clearly the moment the Russians doing something of a fightback and trying to present Browder is being no cleaner than them win when Donald Trump and a Putin mitten Helsinki in July, Trump said Peten extended an incredible offer he would let special count. Sel Robert Mueller's team meet with Kremlin investigations to get to the bottom of of the two thousand sixteen election hacking, but in return Russia would have the same right to question Americans. Just clearly another attempt to get it of it seems pretty relentless. Yeah. Yeah. That particular offer. I mean, it's worth mentioning. I mean, this is what Putin be doing? So well is basically to be the grand geopolitical troll. I didn't think from minute of the Russians thought they actually would get the chance to question Browder. And indeed other people such as the former American ambassador McFaul, it was just simply an attempt to present themselves as if if they look as if they're being the reasonable ones and make other people ridiculous. But yes, I mean, I think giving we're talking about almost two hundred million pound fraud tax fraud that was in Brown's company was involved with when when Russia was essentially took it over two hundred million pounds to lot of money to you a me if not a lot of money in the in the state terms, essentially, this has become something about Russian prestige more than anything else. Because what are they actually charging brow with the there is a financial side? They're saying now he was the embezzling Robin the other way round you'll. Yeah. But I mean, they've always. Presented this view that he will. He he was not the victim. But he was in fact, the perpetrator of the tax rolled, but they have steadily escalated in the most recent ones. I mean, they really quite fascinating they suggest that he is almost like some kind of bond villain. He is the most mind of an international organized criminal grouping that amongst other things actually managed to poison Sergei Magnitsky when he was in Russia's Tijuca prison in the middle of Moscow. And that's how he died instead of as international sources have have demonstrated it actually being resulted, torture and withhold withholding medical treatment by the authorities. And I mean, why would he want Magnitsky murder them the the partisan Russian presses saying that Magnitsky's job was done. And that he knew too many secrets that there was in fact a motive. Yeah. I mean, that's the claim. No, look, I mean on the one hand. This is not a case of on. All someone who had slightly was not involved in some quite rough politics business in in Russia. I mean Bill Bill Browder had done done well at a time. When actually a lot of other people were doing battling. But on the other hand, there's absolutely no evidence that has been achieved so far to suggest that he was involved in in criminal activities, and particularly this kind of criminal activities, again, it's essentially the Russians demonstrating certain brazenness, they will constantly escalate constantly expand the scope of the story almost daring the west to actually challenge it. How safe is Browder? Then I mean, we know that he's flip flopped. He was a big Putin fan previously. Can he be trusted? Well, look, I mean, a cynic would note that he was exactly Putin's biggest booster when he was making millions upon millions of pounds in Russia. And suddenly said it was shocked shocked to discover that there was corruption system when he was losing out. But that said I mean how how safe is. He is a different matter. Now, trustworthy is. I mean, he he has his own security, and I'm sure he he asked to sort of consider that all the time. But the point is that Browder is willing to as it were exposed the whole case to the scrutiny of western Justice systems. Will he's not willing to do is put himself in the hands quite rightly of the Russian Justice system. So I mean in this respect our comes raises suggests that the the Russians who have been fairly convincingly identified as being behind the massive fraud are actually the people who are to blame. Now. Of course, we know the name of routers, lawyer Magnitsky because of the Magnitsky act which has been adopted in the US the EU is no looking at how significant would it be for the EU to adopt the magnets get given. There are already various sanctions in place. Well, I mean, this is a big deal because this I mean the way that the current proposal is into the Dutch proposal is it's not just about Russians which I think is actually very important otherwise it plays into Putin's narrative that it all just because the west hates Russians, an essentially means that a human rights abuses, anywhere in the world can come under sanction. But actually would be a big deal. Two reasons. One is because we know that Europe, including the moment London is a prime destination for the laundering of money and the enjoying of money, but human rights abuses around the world. But Secondly, it it's a big symbolic political statement, the problem is that parliamentarians European parliamentarians in quite keen on this the European Commission not so much. So we might find a sort of a grand declaration, but not much action for long as possible, Mark. Thank you very much. Indeed. That was Mark Galliotti. Yes. As one nine hundred investment analysts from one hundred different over nine hundred of the shop is moins and freshest thinkers in the world of finance today. No one has more. One knows more. Contact us at UBS dot com. This week on the globalist. We're looking at the state of today's airports with more and more low cost airlines choosing to base their operations in Austria Vienna's airport is suddenly become a hub for cheap flights. What does it mean for the city Monaco's Alexi Carrillo reports? This may sound like a singer songwriter concert. But it's not this is a ceremony at Vienna. Ample? And it's tomorrow the opening of a new flood would find loud emotion. Australia's newest budget airlines. Just a few months ago load emotion is the latest thank show by the Australian Formula One legend, Nikki louder previous ally. Nikki one down the pen last year, but loud, emotion, see Koba. He's undaunted here. Here's the increasing presence because we'd be leaving the markets. It's a whole market because we are an Austrian company that means we will increasing our presence here significantly loud. Emotion is just one of many budget airlines started flying from the of the past few months. Others include Hungary's wizar- Britain's EasyJet as well as you the budget's Siri of Germany's Lufthansa. It's seven after the call ups Nikki there was definitely a vacuum. And a lot of curious tried to close that airlines seeing the market potential catchment area airport we've seen of course, your your bills vicinity to Slovakia, Czech Republic or Hungary. Or of course, we can catch people to use your flights and euro headquartered. And that's the reason why of course, we are reading store stabbing presence here. Yeah. We see great demand on nudist nations and you flights from Vienna to utter this nation's especially for city tourism industry that's paid claim on spokesperson for airport, and when we had a low cost market share in two thousand seventeen of around sixteen percent are we now have a market share of more than twenty two percent Irina airport, which means more than twenty percent of all passengers are transported by low cost carriers. That's a dramatic break with airports traditional role as a premier hub at porter. We have very well-balanced a mixture of VA segments on one hand, we have Australia airlines, which has a market share of almost fifty percents. Fifty percent of all passengers at airport are transported by the network career, Austrian airline, which is a premium career with a very excellent service naughty on hand. Twenty percent are served. By the locals market, and we've working very well together with VN tourism board, and we see locust VA Asian is a very effective and very cost efficient way to bring you tourists into the city and into the tourism destination. But you think that's the way to go to this is where all ports moving and that local sta- lines will eventually have more than fifty percent of flights. Ample do you think that's going to happen compared to other UPN airports? We Anna is still behind the European everage. So we still see that we could have some more potential, especially at the locus market to increase the locust market. Sure, Israel, but from our point of view, it's very important to have an equal balance between the different types of VA, shin partners from all point of view. It's not the way that you have to increase locust budget up to fifty percents or more. If we look at the other extreme is still demand for premium evasion. Experience at us for sure we're still belief that Australia Ellen's is still increasing their passenger figures and still increasing nations and the roots because we see that especially for the business segment, you need some more high class flight services more reliable services, and it's also the same way as a lot of other airlines still focused on the business class, and first classes, so we see that you have to market rents, which of course, are working some kind of competition. But of course, are also working together in the same way. And we also see that Lufthansa which operates the main career airport with Australians also provides they're low cost subsidiary called Eurowings also at airport. So you still have the competition within their own group. And we see that you have at least two market rents which will still continuing and still going to grow. It's too early to tell whether discount airlines have a future in Vienna. Patek Kleeman predicts that the rise in budget passengers will subside by twenty twenty Kobo vowed motion remains optimistic and what he's gonna do. You think this is a short term trend? There will be definitely conservation will be changes in the future. But so we're here to stay and to increase products and offerings passengers definitely. For Monaco in Vienna. Exit. This is the globalist. Thank you to Alexi. It is seven twenty six hit in London. And in a moment. We'll be having a look through the papers. Joining me in the studio is less to Lana who is professor at King's College London, an expert on Asian maritime defense. But luckily for us can talk across a wide range of subjects because in with sussing with Russia, and this is page two LeMond delessio. Yes. So will the Lamont, and because the story itself is it's it's one of those classic sort of much greater sort of in-depth analysis that provides time-to-time, and I it's quite comprehensive, and it brings about very important point that is for a country that he supposedly sort of leading the way on hybrids, strategies and influence or perations. There's something to say about d state of disarray of the GRU, which is the military intelligence of Russia. The couple of points in this regards. They're important to bear in mind. The first of all over the last year alone more than three hundred and operatives have been on must and expelled from where they were. That's an incredible amount of number of individual. If you think, you know, military intelligence particular sort of WT Jere, you has been conducted for for the decades is very individual Centric and individual intensive so once you take three hundred people just from across Europe out of the equations that an incredible amount. But at the same time with the multiplying effect. That's the second point that the obvious making which I think is really interesting the multiplying fan of this new investigative journalism networks that have been established in Russia that using the methodology if you won't discovery of Disney showcases allows them to expand and to further unmask raise questions about the total about Townsend. Now that is an incredible amount of people that are risk of seeing their work. They line awake being completely free up. So is this the beginning of a whole new face? Well, thing that's great. I mean, we are looking at Jewish in in which the Russian government particular Putin north with the sending companies go was set of Britain long ago. It was celebrating the hundred years of the rue a thing this. I'm thinking the needs to be coming round. If the east to remain relevant, particularly in their ability to gather sort of intelligence in in in western advance, democracies at the moment, we are looking at the situation whereby the cool enemies of these networks across Europe are being a dismantle if north severely weakened that will raise questions in the ability of the Soviet year of of of Russia to continue to. Ronnie team all rations on the ground. Absolutely. Let's move back to the UK now. Now, there's a good joke in the times letters of no confidence. Diagram I doubt we'll manage to unseat Theresa May. But we can't seem to get anything right at the moment. So we might as well fail at this to joke, and that does seem to be a health things getting Brexit pluses failed to light the fees as the Daily Telegraph. I know I love it. It's the sort of headline would suggest that the telegraphy is is it Tingey bit side that it didn't happen. And and if you read the tone of the article is very much disorder thing that you would expect them to suggest say, basically what's been happening for the last three or four days. We've heard over and over again, that's resume wasn't Virgil receiving a vote of confidence needed number of letters of fish letters that would would sort of. Prompts to happen yet that hasn't happened. And even know even though certainly not the case that she's she's weather the storm, and it would appear however that food it's owing being her major problem is not the Brexit is themselves because it seemed to being these Ray in public among themselves on how to get this thing going, and who should be leading the charge in that sense. Apparently, the problems to become from the DUP in regards to the backstopping island and that positive plan. However, I would say I didn't think the prime is ever really fully counted on on the food support in that sense. And so I'm not sure that she she woke up to this news this morning shocked by that. But what is interesting is that? Two years now into the poster trend in context, and is absolutely alarming is debt the levers campaign all the lead. Break city is don't seem to have a fundamentally agreed opponent Genda and the battle older. These people have had two years to organize themselves and as things proceed, and they seem to keep changing if you want their center of gravity if they have one and where I find absolutely staggering is that this idea that that that negotiations and everything round comes constantly surprise. But guess what? When you are looking down the barrel of an important political point other people, not just sort of like look around, and you know. Rollover. They're gonna fight back. So how is that possible that two years in you still see this guy things William Hague as as as a colon inside the the payback as it does in the has been for for for sometimes. And there's a nice quote the front page from there. I have lived through more crisis British politics than I can that cat member. But I've never witnessed one more serious than this and weighs rights and is one of our own making. And that's part of the story here. Career. Then let's go to the guardian. This is page four and really interesting piece on on North Korea. I think it's the natural is the natural sort of subsequent set from Brexit to North Korea. I'm in the gap is very small, and and in this particular case, you got with the factor that that that would probably sort of listeners will remember is is this this person was frantically running across a from the the sites that down the DMZ that currently is more of a tourist attraction. It was first time in a very long time that someone shooting at him. And now, we know that have been more of the story he was health drunk, and when he realized that he was driving the wrong direction. He decided to try to make a run for it. And and it didn't stop because he knew that people would actually shoot him whether it was coming back or no. So he just thought like this is my one way ticket if it happens it opposite. If it doesn't it doesn't. And it did. And now, he's a story. That is really interesting insofar as he turns out as the factor, he's the sewn of a Major General, and so he's one of the princelings and the comments is providing on the bay ground of the youth in North Korea. Agreed interesting suggesting that young people even those who are in the privileged position as where belonging to closer. Call the Kim family all within the military. They are all in different to the leadership because there is a sense of lack of hope and promoted the state school by Russia rather than out of conviction and Dominic pitcher that is coming across to extend these is personal views, and I'm trying to get a different life and getting if you money out of it. Whether that is actually a real picture if you want that is difficult to understand nonetheless, aiding trade intriguing very interesting new nuances if you won't on youth in North Korea, which will wonder what it would look like will they saying apparently, they are like any anybody else they award about themselves future. And let's say thank you very much. Indeed. That was Pat Alana. UBS is a global financial services firm with over one hundred fifty years of heritage built on the unique dedication of our people we bring fresh thinking and perspective to our work. And we know that it takes a marriage of intelligence and haunt to create lasting value for Klein's. It's about having the right ideas. Of course. But was time about having one of the most accomplished systems and unrivaled network of global experts. That's why at UBS we pride ourselves on thinking smarter to make a real difference. Tune in weekly to the bulletin with UBS for all the latest insights and opinions from UBS and experts from around the world. Kenya's coastline is one thousand kilometers long. And yet until recently it didn't have a coastguard maritime security has been the job of the navy. But now the president of hurricane iota has launched the first coastguard service this one big problem though, it only has one boat. Here's the tell us Moore's Robert folks defensive tour of the London Evening Standard wrote. There are many problems possessing that part of the coast from piracy and people in jugs trafficking to illegal fishing, and I wondered if you could just give us a bit more detail on on the piracy aspect. It doesn't seem as bad now as it was in its peak in two thousand eleven Parisy has been confronted. I've heard say that surly dealt with by about national force by led largely by the EU. But it's actually burden-sharing between the EU beta and on. The whole it's been pretty successful. Because one of the things that became apparent after this dreadful business. Extended. It'd be guide for several years is that the the brevity of the life of the parrots that they they they were very very short lived. Indeed, the Mr. bags always the so-called logical, Mr. beg, but they were making the money and back and forth from east Africa to west Africa and also to south East Asia, but I can straight that sort of airy Parisy hasn't gone away. But it is interesting in the way that you have flagged up this new force. The new coast guard for spring stood up by president Kennedy at its prime role, actually isn't counter piracy, it is counter narcotics. But above all counter illegal fishing, and the president said in the inaugural speech for their full said that really, you know, we're letting too much getaway one hundred billion dollars. It's a very modest beginning. But the two very definitely related because legal fishing. Of course, has meant that loss of livelihood for many of those people living along the coast, and some of those people that are going into piracy. Yes, I think it's very interesting that almost this is philosophical gesture of the part of the canyons very, very bodice beginnings. It's interesting if the declaration I've been trolling through the notes and the president's page, I'm not quite sure of the specific numbers that very very small numbers for very difficult in job at the navy's only about two thousand below in personnel for coast as you say one hundred thousand kilometers, very difficult and very important one. And as far as I can make out most of the coast guard personnel again to be joined drawn from the paramilitary police that forty is seen as the new ship. The new vessel the door at is that surveillance facile. It is actually gathering intellige-. Silence about the kind of very kind very matter you've been toying piracy illegal operations, penetration. And so on it is obviously a big and important move in a new direction at I think we're going to be hearing in terms of geopolitics in the way that you deal with globalized organized crime. I hate them expression the oxymoron contradiction term, but criminal activity, we've terrorist activity eve is is on the rise. And they to a lot of countries, including the u k again to need a lot more coast guard. Rub it thank you very much. Indeed that was robot folks. Right. It is seven forty hit in London and time to business joining the on the line is so he killed this as seven investment management. So let's start with the story that is dominating not only the financial papers. But also the headlines across the UK today. And I imagine across many other countries to this is the fate of the chairman of the sun and Mitsubishi. That's right at Collis Goan who heads up Braschi understand Renna was well in an alliance of of the three comic, which he makes them the number one automobile group worldwide now he was arrested yesterday. And consequently, we saw the shares of Reynaud full ES there around eight percent and then earlier this morning when the when the Asian markets opened a Nissen fellow around six percent emission Mitsubushi around seven percent that Mr. gold has been credited with really leading the. Turnaround of these auto companies, he came in and really reinvigorated it he had a wave of cost-cutting measures, and and put some life back into these really big automakers, but we understand that a whistle blower pumped it internal investigation which uncovered misconduct and that included the under reporting of his salary particular Japanese market now both in assignments bushy have said they will remove him from his post Reynaud will meet today to decide his future. It's really really interesting. This is a story that is going to continue to dominate the headlines. Another popular thing that we read about all of the time is bitcoin. And now the value has dropped twelve percent. That's right is actually better while since I've spoken about bitcoin. And yet the values now down below five thousand US dollars. Now, that's the first time it's been this lower in over yet. And it's really been a roller coaster ride four bitcoin owners about this time last year. It was at a high of nineteen thousand. Thousand seven hundred eighty three. So that's actually a full of the last year for about seventy five percent. Now, this fall is really predicated by a split in the communities one form of credit. Crypto currency bitcoin cash folks off last year, and again, I had another heart fork in the last couple of weeks. Now, I think some of this is the confusion around all the different variants of the crypto currencies. We we were told that that was a hard limit on the the number of crypto coins that would ever be available. But as they keep forking and keep turning into into different things, and we have new initial public offerings of different crypto currencies. I think that's some problems in in the cryptocurrency world in addition. That is closest grew Tony on the way that bitcoin was solved by the securities and Exchange Commission in the United States. So so fork in the road for bitcoin certainly here. And finally, let's have a look at TSP. There's a new boss. That's right, Debbie cross bay has joined as. Their CEO. She's come from C Y BG, which is the banking group of Clydesdale Yorkshire Bank and now including virgin money as well. Now, it's been a very difficult year forty s bay you might recall back in April was the star that problems as customers weren't able to access that Bank accounts when the Bank tried to migrate the systems to its Spanish parent company Sabah del now, they really came in for a loss of Chris criticism over how long it took to resolve the problem cost the Bank about one hundred and seventy six million pounds and eventually also cost the job of their CEO poor peste who resigned in September. Now miss Crosby joins following twenty years at see why BJ most recently as the c o that chief operating officer. But there will be challenges for her ahead to get the banking group back to where it should be. So I'm smiling because I'm looking at picture. This is a woman in charge. How significant is that it's pretty significant. There aren't many women in charge of banks in the u k. We've had some changes as well recently at all Bs which is maybe thinking that the next time they change over. They'll be a woman in charge there. Obviously there aren't enough women in charge of big organizations big corporations in the UK, particularly those listed on the stock exchange. So any new woman that comes onto to one of these big boards as the leader of the board is significant. Well, good luck to miss Crosby. Sophie, thanks very much. Indeed that Sophie kill that from seven investment management. You're listening to the globalist on monocle twenty four. Now Swedish fun at Tomako hem is one of the biggest designs success stories to come from Scandinavia in recent years heme, which is Swedish for home creates modern furniture and home goodies from table sofas and carpets to lighting in collaboration with designers the world over with freshly opened pop-up space at London's coal drops yard, retail development, founder and CEO. Petrous? Palmer dropped by Midori has to catch up without design editor Nolan Giles. I think that you next ability of great product is one of the issues with how the furniture industry has been set up. So you get a watered down versions of the best which is a shame. I think more people should have access to a great product. So instead of him what did you do to fix this problem? Well, when I decided to start have it was in the one of firm. Furniture online, it's gone quickly now. So now, it's less of an innovation but back then in two thousand thirteen and fourteen it was still very rare to find Brown's that went direct and to produce products for insurance office at cetera so sell directly to customers, but it was happening in other industries, you could see it in fashion American firms doing very well. And so we basically got us by that model and decided to produce our own furniture with all the elements that I treasured quality and name designers that we thought were really interesting because what they're doing. But then apply a new way of distributing the product online. And the things were talking about before the tactile nature of share in terms of the metals. The words the fabrics. These are things that you sort of have to experience firsthand your delivering something that is available to see online. But maybe not to touch and feel how how'd you get that extra? Dimension over to your customers. That's a shallow. And we try our best where the great imagery with videos with text in the end nothing beats the real experience. So that's why we're excited about the pop up four month because it allows us to actually meet our customers and for them to touch them feel the product. So that component is needed. The people that buy from us without having seen the product trust us, which is very heartwarming that actually trust us with a three thousand euros sofa. But there's people that wouldn't and we want to get to them as well. Of course. So then the pop-up it's an excellent four months. So how'd you go about planning pop up? You know, you're a designer you what with interior design as you. You've got a great product at the heart of your brand. And then you wanna bring it to life in a space. Can you take us through that process? So we have designers in house, and we're very design driven organization designer myself. So everything we do happens within the walls of him. And we try. To find ways of being exciting and try to find ways of being unexpected. Because every time we do these pop ups, you should have a purpose to come. They're billing just saying the product should be something that inspires you. We sit down we we look at the space. We look at where we're at now for London. For instance. Of course, just the nature of the cold up short and the brick and the kind of the history is buyers us for this up. We used industrial shelving in bright orange that went really well with the brick, and then we have a very centerpiece bar. That's the signed by a local designed do. And that's something that is important to us to infuse some element of surprise. And something that you could actually come there just to see this creativity and for the pup area London. We worked together with the science soft Buttle who are two guys based out of London or a guy legal, and we basically gave them a brief to design of pink. Bar because we wanted something to go with very bright orange shelving. Bright, orange war. We have. And then we felt that the pink bar would be a suitable contrast. And then they were given free hands to the design something, and they came up with an amazing bar basically built on the site. And it's made from just might. So they have this technique that developed it's called puffy bricks. They call it, then is basically balloons, which are the filled with just my night, and then it's left to sit. And then you do this. It's hard and describe this without actually. But you place these next to each other, and that it forms almost like of bricks, and then it's all painted impact. It's very striking. And it's something that allows us to be creative beyond the products, which are mass produced, and they're going to be adjusted for certain function, whereas with the space and with something commission. We can be completely borderless which allows us to be exciting. When you're commissioning something like this. How how'd you find a balance between making it, look, brilliant and photogenic and also having that experience of tactile nurse of being able to enjoy the space when you're there. How does that process? What what if we ever thought about it from a picture first perspective, maybe we should? And these case it turned out very well with the pink and the blob but for us. It's so much about materiality about the connection with the designers with allowing them to have a brief that gets them excited. And then we can trust them from there. So it's it's very gut feeling oriented our strategy. It's it's not very strategic from what I understand around half of your products. Make it to the US is that correct? A bit more. Yeah. So what's happening in the US market? First of all the US has very good trend right now in in general lot of businesses are opening up new offices. We sell quite a lot of our products to project, interior designers and architects are designing. So our business is set up to cater to both the professionals and the consumers, but in this case for the professionals, they design officers for a lot of companies and many of them are very interested in making environments that attract the right type of talent. So they look for the right furniture for the riot interior elements to kind of get that space that attracts those talents, and we fit into that picture. They want something that this young that is. As of quality that has about connotations and build all they want quality. They need poorest last and that kind of have the same value that they tried to communicate and that was pitches. Palmer founder and CEO hem speaking to Monaco's Nolan Giles if you're in London hems Papa pin cul drops yachting. King's Cross is open until December thirty first for the full interview June into this week's episode of Monaco on design today that nineteen hundred London time surveyed -able at monocle dot com. ITN's and Spotify. Now at eight minutes before the top of the hour. We finish today's program by wishing a happy birthday to the international space station, the ISS was launched into orbit twenty years ago today, and here's tell us about the achievements of the mission over the last two decades and to describe how this landmark will be celebrated is David White house. He's a space scientist and an author Davis countries of the world seem increasingly at odds with one another the ISS appears to be one area where chew cooperation and harmony rain, which nations a part of this mission will raw seventy nations in total who were involved with this principle United States and Russia, but also the European Space Agency and Japan, and indeed a lot of the space agencies throughout the world, Australia. Many in South America have had some interest in the space station over its twenty years. So it's been if you learn something that mostly stuns apart from international politics, politics, come into it in the sense that China would like to dock with the space station but America does to do that just yet. So there are politics, but by lunch you quite right to stood apart from the disputes, which affect stern here on earth. I mean that does seem a little out the why do you think they were better together in space than they do on earth? Well, partly it's because scientists tend to regard international problems as another domain, partly because when it was set up it was the result of twenty years of negotiations and false starts president. Reagan wanted the space station. Bill Clinton started the space station on and then it was redesigned. Redesigned negotiations came into force. So really when it started twenty years ago, it was partly where rescuing the Soviet split, the former Soviet space effort and that. Everybody seemed to get off to a reasonably good start. And they've maintained that. Of course, the space station is nearing the last third of its lively remains to be seen. If those boundaries can be kept the space. So what if the outstanding achievements being connected with the ISS over the last couple of decades? Well, I think that the main reason the ISIS is the main chievements who's been learning how to live and work in space because if we're going to go to the moon, again, if you go further tomorrow, we really have to understand what it's like living in space, and you do do that say on the space shuttle, which stays in space fool used to space for a week or so you really need experience from the long durations Soviet space stations so seven Mia and the finger replaced, the international space station. So you could crew the maximum six usually three things. Oh wrong. Things have to be done of decisions have to be made compromises have to be made structure of hierarchy people have to get on with each of the medical conditions have to be dealt with in space. Who's thing that you could write down on paper? But you don't know exactly how it works. What you have to do and to living for years and us news occupying the space station continuously. So it's a lot of science it's material science. It's it's helped develop technologies, but I think the main role is living in working in space. So that people can't we know that you can be in space for the length of time. It takes to get to moss and to help people live and work in space. There are some exciting birthday gifts on the way to the space station. What can you tell us about those? All I know is that there are there are packages some of which are secret been told about to go up to which actually onboard the space station. The movement would have been unpacked NASA actually surfeit of great anniversary's coming up next year. So it does the fiftieth anniversary since the Apollo moon landings its twentieth anniversary of the space station. So this is going to be the start of a lot of celebrations but apart from the the t shirts banners. The cakes understand that have grown up with infra few surprises. And I'm also saying that I think that in order to help with the whole of recycling and space problems that of course, he encountered pun intended on a on a mission like this. They're sending a hybrid recycler and three D printer that melts, plastic which would create new tools for the space station. I suppose that's very Impor. You've got to find ways all the time of reinventing and reusing things. Exactly. When the space station was was I lodged liberty result about three D printers. And if you needed a spare part, spare of tubing newspaper to pipering your bracket or anything like that? You had to order it. If it's manufactured on the ground oversleep and then transported to the cargo rookie which usually in in Russia, and then sent to the space station four or five months. Sometimes some circumstances spare parts get up there. Now, we have a three D printer that can print print. Plastic components. All you have to do is press few buttons. And the pound you want is there literally within an hour on the space station. And that's that's going to revolutionize the way space stations operate because you can get the things you want three D printers on the moon on MAs really help with living on those worlds. So that's part of the if you like growing and learning to use new technology because nobody to three d print in the space station was first starts to be a symbol twenty years ago. Now, it's a sensual, David. Thank you very much. Indeed that David Whitehouse. And happy birthday then to the. International space station. That's all we have time for today. Thanks to produces collateral, Bella and Augustine that Larry researches patron bobber, my money and mother LeBron and studio manager today was Sarah miles off to the headlines. There's more music on the way calendar Rabelo will be here with the continental shift, and that's at noon London time by the briefing, really continue to follow those big current affairs stories. I'm Georgina Godwin return on the globe list at the same time tomorrow. Thank you. Phil listening.

United States Russia London Iran European Union Bill Bill Browder United Kingdom president Putin China Jeremy hunt Australia Yemen founder and CEO Britain Kenya UBS INTERPOL Sergei Magnitsky Donald Trump
Trump is a Russian Asset (feat. David Rothkopf & Bill Browder)

Mueller, She Wrote

1:39:52 hr | 1 year ago

Trump is a Russian Asset (feat. David Rothkopf & Bill Browder)

"This episode of Muller. She wrote is brought to you by Zola Zola is reinventing the wedding registry and planning process to make the happiest moment in couple's lives, even happier to start your free wedding website. And also get fifty dollars off your registry on Zola, go to Z O L, A dot com slash AG. And thanks to Neum for supporting Muller. She wrote. It's not too late to kick off your year. Right. Stay on track to meet your New Year's resolutions and meet your goals with Neum dot com. New MS designed for results. Meet your resolutions by signing up for your trial today at Neum N O, M dot com slash AG. What do you have to lose? Visit Neum dot com slash AG to start your trial today. Again, that's Neum dot com slash AG. Start losing weight for good. So to be clear, Mr. Trump has no financial relationships with any Russian oligarchs Tuti said, that's what I said. That's obviously with our positions. I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at the time too. And that campaign, and I didn't have not have communications with the Russians to get involved. With Putin have nothing to do with putting never spoken to him. I don't know anything about a mother than he will respect me. Russia if you're listening. I hope you're able to find the thirty thousand emails that are missing. So it is political your communist know, Mr. green, communism is just a red herring. Like, all members of the oldest profession. I'm a capitalist. Hello and welcome to Muller. She wrote. I'm your host AG with me as always Julius Johnson. Hello and Jordan Coburn. Hello. Oh my God. You guys this week was insane. I think we can stop saying that now though, we haven't had a non insane weeks since we started this podcast just like over a year ago this year, but I keep being surprised, and I suppose that's good. It means I haven't normalized this shit show. But welcome to our hundreds of new patrons to let you know. I go by AG because I worked for Trump's executive branch. I've been there since the days of Obama, and we took the executive oath of office at the same time actually the same day, but Trump is purging non loyalist. So I go by AG, he's even used his office of general counsel to file a foia request for my employee records. So what I'm trying to do is not violate the hatch act by using my name or my agency or my title to campaign against or for any political party or person. That's why I use the pseudonym and why I can appear in public. So I just wanted to get let all our new patrons. Oh that although you probably already have been listening. It's really about not using my name and agency anyway as of this recording. We're now in the middle of the longest government shutdown in the history of the country. Hundreds of thousands of men and women many of whom are veterans are not being paid. We don't have TSA at full force because they're calling in six so that they can work privately. Elsewhere. So they can get money to feed their families pay their rent, the FDA has stopped inspecting food. They're trying to get emergency FDA workers into look at like, weird critical stuff like cheese and seafood. Is it still going through even though it's not inspected? Or is just like, oh, that's not good. Yeah. Still going through. This is far more of a humanitarian crisis than anything at the southern border that the president's trying to create and it's being perpetuated on our own citizens and not just ordinary citizens. But public servants those who keep us safe people who have dedicated their lives to asking not what their country can do for them. But what they can do for their country, right? So I just wanted to extend my heartfelt concern and apologies to to those federal workers eight hundred twenty thousand of them thirty percent of which are veterans or more that are receiving zero dollars yesterday in their paycheck. I'm so sorry. And I wish there was something. I could do today. Jordan. What are you going over in your hot known? All right. So this week I'm going to cover something I covered a little bit in December. Remember when we talked about that media organization that was basically buying ads on behalf of both Trump and the NRA. Well, there's an update to that story. All right. Cool. Angelina would you have something about Wall Street Journal report? Right. Yes. Basically, we learning that the Trump Oregon's hiring their own lawyer to pretty much combat all these democratic congressional investigations and everyone's lawyering up. That's the news. Yeah. Yeah. Lots of lawyers going around this week. I'm going to be talking about this crazy New York Times report about the F B I investigating Trump. Couple days prior to comb. He's being fired. So interesting interesting things, we do have some amazing guests today, the host of deep state radio. David Rothkopf will be with us. And it got to talk to the CEO of Hermitage Capital. The head of the global Magnitsky Justice campaign. Putin enemy number one Bill Browder. He's amazing. Yeah. Have you? Haven't yet. Go. Listen to episode two Muller. She wrote it's all about the Magnitsky act. It'll be a good primer to the conversation. We're about to have with the guy who helped write the Magnitsky act, please mind, the sound quality and episode to we have some corrections from last week in the ongoing saga of how to pronounce Herman German cons name. I'm now being told by the Russian friend that it's a hard G Gherman con. This is the father-in-law vendors wand Gherman con vendors, one vendors wants the first guy to go to jail and be deported in the molar probe. So they're Gherman con. I'm just gonna com con from now on the safest way to go the whole German Gherman Herman situation. I also said Montenegro was a Baltic state not a Balkan its Balkan. And I know that and I always confuse those two things, and I I always mix them up. Sorry about that good looking out. Also, I thought about conduct discharge was worse than a dishonorable discharge, but it's the other way around dishonorable discharges or for like, murder and rape and shit like that. Wow. And to the women who bristle when I call myself old because I'm forty four. I know it's not old. But my feelings about myself are not a referendum on you. I'm very aware that forty four is not old. Although it's relative, right? I thought I wasn't gonna make it pass thirty. So and I do understand we're trying to smash the patriarchy here. And that includes not feeling old. We're not but. But as a woman, I like to declare how I feel when I wanted to clear it, and in no way, do I imply that my feelings apply to you. Sometimes I feel that way. I know that you guys and your twenties. Sometimes you're like, I'm so old. You know, that is in no way saying that people who are age or older or younger are old. You know? That's this isn't on you. It's on me. Yeah. It's more a reflection of my experience with time personally. Personal shares. The same numbers me. I've lived a thousand lifetimes in my brain. Make it stuff. I'm sure we all have right? Yeah. Yeah. And there's days we feel really young. There's days we really feel really old. So and also, I'm a comedian in these are jokes. Dow didn't talk about Peri menopause. Well, when I talk about good point. Yeah. All our. No content there. The start a whole new podcast called are you there? God it's be menopause. And it's gonna be me talking about how old I am all the time. No another thing at the end of the last episode. We were pointing at pointing out that the chief of staff at the Pentagon Sweeney quit because Mattis quit, but we learned the day after we recorded that that he was actually forced out. So keep your eye on Trump urging all non loyalists, including me, please don't fire me. It's been happening for a while. All right. We have a ton of news to get to. So let's jump in with just the facts. Okay. On monday. We got an update on the Concorde management subpoena battle in the Muller investigation. Concord management is a sorry. Concord management and catering is a Russian company headed up by promotion. That's putin. Chef they pleaded not guilty to charges filed by the Muller investigation Muller probe last year in the social media case against Russian meddling. They're fighting Muller in court and in a hearing in that case this week, the judge took issue Dabney right free. Drifter jury found out that's a woman. Yeah. I didn't know that either. Yeah. Me either bad star lady lady judge. She took issue with the character and nature of the defense attorneys. Filings talent basically said knock it off it out. So Jordan, you covered some of the colorful language references in our mid week episode. We have mid week episodes now there for patrons. If you're not a patron get on it. You can get on it. You can get that second episode, plus all the other shit, you get for being a patron for those little as three bucks. So Gus I not patriots dot com slash Miller. She wrote it's a good deal. But you you did you covered some of that colorful, language and cartoon references. What were some of the things that concord management's lawyer Dubai the air has written in? Yeah. Court filings. Yeah. Someone said it is pronounced French, by the way. Nice. Yeah. He said that prosecutors of the special counsel office lived in quote, fairyland nice. Yes. And then he also made a reference he said in than these words with no context, which I am aware of I taught I Taw I taught tied to a putty tat. Reminds me of your titties joke. Yours is more sophisticated. Little bit. And didn't he also say fuck in his like, he put the bomb in his filing completely just Unprsert old gear idiocy? Yeah. Some of the study saying, yeah. And then judge is like this is embarrassing and unprofessional, and then he called it a fake laws. Yeah. That's worse than fake news did say that. And he called the judge bias which pissed her off. Anyway, I'm sure I don't know. It's just weird that court filing because she was pissed. She was like not cut it out. But yeah, you got to this is unprofessional, and then he accused of being bias, and he's gonna have to talk to his client about whether or not he wants to represent them anymore because the judge hates him. It was like get the fuck out drugs seriously or something they're all into this lake on the hard stuff. I think they're starting to like conflict Twitter with the courts. Yeah. Just writing how they would normally. It's like Ideo Crecy. Yeah. Right. We're you know, I'll my balls that's part of a court filing now. Yeah. It's like don't speak in metaphors in pop culture. Metaphors to me what the fuck there's a whole reason you went to law school and Sodi so respect that shit. That's what Miller she wrote is for exactly we've speaking pop culture references and say fuck and assholes in Dick's and. That's what we had to sometimes assholes. Fuck dig. Sorry team America will police reference, a nice ain't pop culture. Oh, but I'm not a lawyer. And then Tuesday, Eric prince told CNBC he'd rather have a proctology exam than another interview with Muller. I made a joke about setting up a back channel that. I really enjoyed. Julia. You reported on this midweek, Eric prince whose Betsy DeVos's brother in the head of the now defunct blackwater private security firm is the guy. That's he is. He's the guy who rep Trump in a meeting in the Seychelles with Nater and Dmitriev, right? I just went there. And there was a Russian guy. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure he'll be indicted soon. So put some beans on that. Maybe you guys wanna pick him in the fantasy indictment draft this week get I did I did want to mention we got a message from a listener reminding us that being questioned by law enforcement is scary. And I wanted to share that person. I'm not talking about interviews of the ninety nine percent. I'm talking about white collar privileged privileged privileged criminals. Like prance who always like having fingers in my butthole. Yeah. Like, dude, if you're innocent, just it's fine. But I, you know, well pointed out that that's not true for the rest of the regular folks in this country. Who are oftentimes, you know. Interrogated using sneaky tactics and the prisoners conundrum or whatever it's called the what's that called prisoner's dilemma? Yeah. Prisoners conundrum. Same thing the cap TS conundrum as AG refers to it because I'm weird. I think Montenegro was Baltic. So. There we go. Anyway, I just yeah. I'm not talking about those folks. There's no reason for these white collar guys to feel uncomfortable unless they're guilty af. But good looking out. And this week in Republicans can't tech I'm going to record something for that. So so manafort's defense filed their response to Muller's breach of plea filing the outlined the five things Manafort lied about during his cooperation with special counsel. The problem is that they electronically redacted the document thrown up black boxes over the text leaving the actual text under the black boxes. So we could all just copy and paste and read the text underneath and in those redacted pieces. We found out that Manafort did meet with Kalinic twice and provide at least and provided him with proprietary campaign. Polling data and told him about the Ukraine peace deal, which was just a GOP scam to lift sanctions on Russia and in related news. We learned Thursday that Muller's team has questioned the Trump campaign pollster Tony Fabrizio Doni for breezy. Almost a year ago, according to some CNN journalists who spotted him coming out of Miller's office last year, and they didn't bother to tell us about this a year ago. They're just now bringing it up because we found out that Manafort gave polling data to the Kremlin. So CNN decided to dust off this old, Jim, and that's his thing. Irresponsible reporting. I'm frankly shocked they didn't follow up on that lead when it happened. I mean, the pollster for the Trump campaign was being questioned by Muller the guy investigating Russian election interference. And they were just like I mean, maybe because there's just so many. It's hard to keep up. Yeah. Too many to report. Yeah. I mean, if you're not familiar with polling data is like gold and campaigns higher teams of people to protect it and get this before Trump hired for breezy. Oh to be his poster for breezy. Oh, worked in Ukraine with men fort one thing, we know for sure Manafort is fucked there you got birth. Also, Tuesday vessel at sky was indicted in a civil matter separate from the Muller probe. And we'll go over that later in the interview with Bill Browder, but is it release uprate? We'll find out finally Tuesday. The supreme court weighed in on the secret subpoena battle between Muller and the mystery company from country A, basically, a person or a company was appealing a Muller subpoena for documents under the foreign sovereign immunities act. Right. And this person or company was saying Muller doesn't have jurisdiction and we should be immune from subpoena because we're foreign. That'd be quite the easy loophole grind. And Tuesday of this week's go to said in a brief order quote the application for stay presented to the chief Justice and by him referred to the court is denied the administrative state previously entered by the chief Justice is vacated. So basically Skoda's vacated their stay of contempt from just over a week ago that we reported so the company now has to go back to paying fifty thousand dollars per day until they, you know, give them the documents hand him over the way, I read this is that Skoda's is not refusing to hear the case, they're just vacating. This day of contempt though the decision is indicative of agreement with lower courts, I do not know of Skoda's will take up the case based on the merits appeal by the company or not that's still not been decided. But that wasn't all we got Tuesday. Do you guys remember December fourteenth when the court building was all shut down fifth floor was sealed and all the reporters were shooed away. Yeah. We also got that opinion. We got that opinion from the court and in it were a few more clues about who. Come. The company is from country A, the first big clue is that the state owned foreign entity has a US office, and they were served a subpoena at that office. And we also learned in the opinion that this foreign owned entity does significant business at that US office where they were served the subpoena now before the twenty eight page unsealed appellate court decision. I was wavering back and forth between the company being VP. Be that's the sanctioned Russian Bank that was going to fund Trump Tower Moscow and that was buying back. Derek Pasco aluminum shares. So we'd lift sanctions on him. Right. So he's going back between VDB and QA the Qatari investment authority VTC is sanctioned. And thereby I don't think they qualify as having a US office that does significant business in the United States 'cause they're sanctioned the cutter investment authority does have an office in the United States. It's at nine west fifty seventh street in New York and in two thousand fourteen they had planned to invest thirty five billion dollars in the US over five years, which sounds like significant business. Oh, yeah. It's a lot. A lot of money. All right. Then CNN came out and said that they know that two guys named Ken Boone from a law firm called Austin and bird are working on the secret subpoena battle on behalf of country. A and and they also CNN mentioned that these guys have also worked with Russians and Dera Pasqua and Manafort, well, I found out with a little bit of research that they've also ripped Glencore who is the Anglo Swiss multinational trading and mining company that managed the sale of Rosneft to cutter and cutter about eighteen point nine three percent of Rosneft. And there was a fi- a point five percent commission paid to an unknown party, though, the dossier by Christine says that that party is Trump. It's important to note that the owner of Rosneft was eager such an who Carter page apparently met with on one of his trips to Moscow, though, he denies it. So QA it's foreign owned with an office in the US that does considerable business in the US from that office and is not currently sanctioned. They did the Rosneft deal with Russia and Glencore Glencore has been represented by Austin and bird who CNN says part of the subpoena. A battle QA, and I'll remind he met with Cohen and Flynn in Trump Tower and December twenty sixteen we have photos of that. And then he bragged about bribing transition administration officials in court filing a year later, there's been an additional filing on Cohen that happened the week before Christmas, it's under seal an evolved in Manhattan, and one of the lawyers on the Muller team working the case Zainab Ahmad is a Middle Eastern expert that speaks Arabic and worked on the Flynn case. And as we know Flynn was at that Trump Tower meeting with the guy from QA, so I'm switching my pick back to QA yet. But solid I came in for now. Yeah. Can we all just have? Yes. I can't imagine. 'cause I was with Rosina for a while. But that was just to be the end before it was BTV. Yeah. We'll QA is involved with Rosneft because of the Glencore sale, right? Which is such an interesting connection there. So I mean, I guess it is still kinda Rosneft. But definitely the QA connection is so direct. It's pretty it's a pretty good argument. I could be completely wrong. So yeah. And this will be old news store patrons because we talked about this in our mid week episode. Hey, another thing for mid week episodes, then Wednesday happened and it was a shit show. I rep spire says junior, Don, jR, will be the first person to be served with a subpoena to testify in front of the house intelligence committee when it reopens the Russia probe which was prematurely shuttered by Nunez in House Republicans right reopen that junior is going to be the first one God, how nice is it Nunez is not here anymore. Well, I mean, not in that capacity. Right. Not in charge and in a related story. Matthew fucking Whitaker has been asked to testify before the House Judiciary before. Twenty-ninth to answer questions about recusing himself from the Muller probe oversight. According to Bloomberg news. This is in the wake of another story that broke Wednesday about snoop Dag rod Rosenstein, leaving the DOJ wants a new attorney general is appointed a source close to snoop Dag says he wants to stay until Muller is done and expect a report in early March. We heard from NBC sources that the report would be out late February, but the seem so soon to me considering Muller is still fighting the Andrew Miller peace concord management. He's trying to get documents from country A he hasn't even gotten those yet. They're just being charged fifty grand until they put up or shut up. But who knows maybe it's done. And with this new New York Times reporting, I'm gonna go over and hot notes, we have some new ways of thinking about this. So stick around for that, the Washington Post put out a report Wednesday saying that Trump's legal team has hired seventeen lawyers this week to battle the Muller probe because that's totally how innocent people act, and they also reported that their number. On defense is going to be executive privilege, which we reported last week, of course, and that should be fun to watch them try to make that stick and joining us today to discuss Trump's legal defenses, the CEO of the Roth cop croup, author of a book coming out later this year called trader the case against Donald J Trump and he's the host of deep state radio. David Rothkopf, David welcome to molar. She wrote great to be here. So to start off what do you make of Trump's legal teams decision to hire seventeen new lawyers this week? Well, they haven't hired in a good ones yet. So might as well keep trying that said, I'm not really sure, you know, whether numbers are the solution when the cases that are being made against him are so of diverse, and and compelling, I do note, however, that there are currently at least the last time I saw counted seventeen investigations against Trump ongoing. And as it happens he hired seventeen lawyer. So maybe at least they can count got one for each defense wants free. One eight fat investigation is so it seems Trump's defense is going to be about executive privilege. So how do you respond to that? And do you think that that runs parallel to his potential declaration of emergency powers? We keep hearing about this week in relation to his wall. Well, first of all the source at least I've seen for his defense being -secutive privilege was Rudy Giuliani who has to be the least reliable source that one can imagine on any matter. But particularly on issues pertaining to his client because he doesn't seem to understand the law the role of lawyers the nature of the risks that his client faces or how to conduct public defense having said that, you know, this is just one of his many kinds of assertions the executive privilege assertion being that there are elements of the. Muller report that shouldn't be allowed public and so forth. So, you know, I guess it's you know, if you can't live with the report being written than let's try to quash the report, there seems to be based on what I've read very very little grounds for the argument that the report shouldn't be released, and of course, with the Democrats controlling the house, you can rest assured that it will be one way or another. When I was in the government, one of the things that we found was most frequently the case was that if you wanted some bit of classified or have tightly held information to instantly be public, you know, the way to do it was to give it to congressman. And and you know, things things have away from there. So I don't think that's a defense. I I don't think they really know what their defense is going to be my guess based on what they've said thus far is that they're going to. To attempt to use every tool available to them and a bunch of tools that aren't actually available to them to impede the investigation to suppress the results to to you know, fight assertions to attack the qsles. You know, it's it's kind of like, you know, you know, throw, you know, kind of like throw and the kitchen sink at people having said that, you know, Giuliani's assertion of executive privilege is consistent with the president's kind of king like view of the powers of the presidency. And we see this in a number of other areas. Most notably recently has you know assertion that. He can if the congress isn't going to give him as wall he can get his wall simply by declaring emergency. Even though there's no evidence to suggest that there's an emergency at our border. Quite contrary conditions at our border at the best that they've been for decades. But. But he'll declared emergency, and then he'll order the army corps of engineer to go in and build the wall with or without the congress with or without the allocated funding that of course, is an assault on the constitution much, as, you know, his desire to pack courts to attack the FBI to attack the CIA to eliminate the the involvement of holy agencies in the decision making process of the government to change policy on a dime. When he's talking to international official. He, you know, right now, I would say the president is more important to more aspects of decision making in the United States government than ever before simply because he's arrogated at all unto himself and needless to say, I think to some extent the rationale behind that as he knows the walls are closing in. He knows this report is out. Out there that these seventeen investigations are out there, and sooner or later, he's going to do whatever it takes to protect himself and arguably as family, although I'm not so sure, you know, whether all of them are gonna get protected by him. Yeah. Exactly. And I think that's why it's so important at the Dem's one house to put a check on this president because in your first point they can just subpoena the Muller report or Muller himself, and that would be putting it in the hands of congress, and they'll probably likely sue him if he tries to declare a national emergency. Anyway. So I'm hoping that those checks and balances will win the day. And you know, also this week Giuliani said that Trump will not answer any more questions from Muller. And I was wondering if you thought based on pacify past events if you think Muller will subpoena Trump to at least answer questions about obstruction. Well, you know, I have no direct pipeline and demolished. I think Muller's one of the more remarkable stories in in modern American history to the greater which he has managed to conduct this very high level investigation while, you know, remaining absolutely silent to the press absolutely assiduous about there being no leaks, really focusing on the work at hand and not getting involved in the inflammatory politics around this. And so, you know, I I don't you know, I that also has the effect of not really giving an insight into to to to what is likely to do next. But my guess is that whatever it is. He's going to do next the comments of Riddy Giuliani have nothing to do with it. You know, I think he's going to pursue it the way he thinks he's going to we should pursue it. And you know, he's been challenged in the court a court Cup. Times by people saying he didn't have the thority of the court struck that down or by this super-secret foreign company that you know, felt that you know, he he they couldn't impose fines on them for not cooperating in the supreme court said now, you know, stuck with a lower court decision and let that go through. So my sense is Muller is going to do what Muller thinks is appropriate to the investigation. If that means he's got a subpoena Trump, he'll subpoena Trump. You know, I I do think one of the things we've seen as he doesn't subpoena people unless he's already got the goods. And so I would if I rudely Juliana for Donald Trump at say, not being subpoenaed not providing answers is actually not gonna help them because he's gathering the goods whether or not he speaks to Trump. I think you know, they realized that Trump who's a pathological liar. Who literally you know is on. Television and said something like two hundred twelve times during the campaign Mexico's gonna pay for the wall. And then says, you know, as he did this week ally never said Mexico's gonna pay for the I mean, the guy the guy is divorced from reality. And and and, you know, perfectly natural that his lawyers would not want him to testify under oath because it's not that he might lie. He seems incapable of telling the truth. Yeah. That's true. And I'm with you on on the subpoena thing, I don't think Muller would have even floated the idea of subpoena a year ago to doubt, if he didn't have the goods, and you know, despite snoop Dag leaving. That's what we call Rosenstein. And Trump saying Thursday, we'll see if he releases the Muller report, I think we will get the findings one way or another. So I I'm I'm I've got some pretty good confidence in Muller in that arena before I let you go. Can you tell my listeners where they can find your book and get access to deep state radio? They can go to save radio network dot com. Which is where all of our stuff is. We've got a multiple podcasts, including deep state radio Washington for beautiful people that is hosted by Emily brand win. Now, national security magazine this week. We did an interview with general Mark hurtling and others coming soon, and as far or you can go to your, you know, wherever your favorite podcasts are giving away for free. And as far as the book the books gonna come out later this year from Saint Martin's press, and you know, keep an eye out for the best way to figure out exactly when it's coming out as to listen to deep state radio, and I'll tell you awesome. Everybody CEO of the Rothkopf group and host of deep state radio, David Rothkopf. Thanks again for joining us on Muller. She wrote thank you very much and congratulations with your great podcasts. And finally Wednesday. The GOP senators say they've met extensively with Bill bar. Not Bill Burr that'd be funny though. That's Trump's nominee for attorney general. And that he's told them he won't touch Muller's probe. Sounds like another proctology situation. This promise comes from bar despite his twenty page submission to the Justice department about how presidents can't obstruct Justice GOP senators are saying bar has told them he's committed to letting Muller finish. So he won't touch Miller's probe until he finishes. Okay. How many latent homosexual innuendos can Republicans making one hour? The extra weird thing about this. Is that bar has told Democrats he can't meet with them because of the government shutdown yet here he is doing bud stuff with Republicans. Yeah. His refusal to meet with the dumbs is unprecedented and unacceptable. His confirmation hearings are next week. I'm going to be watching those closely you should too. And I hope they let him have it. And I hope they secure a promise from him that he'll keep his hands off molars junk. We learned Thursday that Michael Cohen is going to testify publicly before congress, and everybody's losing their mind. I don't think he's going to tell us anything. We don't know. It's your popcorn it's going to be like James Comey. Remember that? Yeah. Yeah. Except way uglier. Yes. Sorry. I shouldn't look shame. Right. Well, it'll just everything for the ugly truth. Yeah. There you go. The truth will be uglier. He will appear before the house oversight and reform committee February seventh to give a full incredible account of the events. That have transpired transpired. That's not wrong transpired through his work for Mr. Trump quote. I look forward to having the privilege being afforded the platform. Cohen told CNN I hope someone asks him about his meeting with the head of the cutter investment authority at Trump Tower with Michael Flynn, and if any of that Rosneft sale made its way to RNC coffers or the Trump inaugural, we already know Trump ordered him to make a legal hush money payments. That's old news. Let's get into what he's hiding from the southern district or New York, right? Whatever it is. I'm sure it's fucking essential. In case. You're new essential consultants is the name of the slush fund company that set up to accept all those payments from Russians and AT and T and Novartis drug company. And we've created a slogan for essential consultants. It's fucking essential. And you have to say it like that Thursday Mnuchin gave a briefing to congress on why he's lifting sanctions on Pasqua. And I'll be chatting with Bill Browder about that later in the show. But basically he didn't say why he was doing it. And he wouldn't answer any questions, and he was. Smarmy and squirmy and. Everybody came out of that hearing like this is the dumbest shit ever. So they only answer questions when they're not asking them and vice versa. It's so weird point. Yeah. Like Tony will word vomit. Shootout known asked him about if you asked me about something nothing. You're not getting the answer over dead body was questioning Mnuchin I would just stand there and stare at him until he told me shit event therapy questioning will we promised him. We'd lift sanctions, and we need steel to build the wall. Just give them like a pen and paper something like traveled to in your brain. Eventually. Drowsy answers or something just slide it across the draw of shit scribbles it out. Fake drilling. Late thursday. The New York Times reported that prosecutors are examining at least a dozen Ukrainians that attended the Trump inaugural that is not news to us on shouldn't be news to you. And it's evident that's evident in the indictment of Sam Patten. Right. That's the guy we've been talking about forever. Well, since August in he used a cutout to allow these Ukrainians to buy tickets to the inaugural and funneling money from us through cypress Bank account from the Ukraine oligarchs into the Trump inaugural fund, and I'm sure these ticket sales make up a large part of the Trump inaugural fund. But to put out news that they're investigating these kind of things we knew that. Right. But things Friday, we heard from colluding Rudy who said big ups to t pain for that nickname. He call them that Cody Rudy Rudy Rudy. Don't out me if you don't like t pain. I don't care. It's a funny nickname. It's like a playground and sold for fifty year old, man. Yeah. But you know, it hurts their feelings Kuni Rudy who says the Trump team should be allowed to correct? The final Muller report. They want to correct. The Miller report you have an idea. Let's have manafort's lawyers redacted for us. Oh, that'd be. Oh, that'd be. We can just you just copy and paste what's underneath. We'd like sure Rudy have manafort's lawyers. Take care of it. I'm sure you guys would be great at redacting. This report. You guys are so good at tech. Yeah. Wow. That's a bowl ask. Right. I mean, he's a former prosecutor would he ever let anyone never mind whatever they're just seeing if they can like bend space time itself at this point. They're so creative with like the way that they try to get out of this like don't do anything for each other kind of like the most bromance relationship I've ever seen not toxic social homo homosexuality about the, yeah, we're they'll completely fuck over the entire country for each other to impress each other. It's pros Also Friday the Wall Street Journal reported that the Trump organs hired lawyers to respond to democrat investigations and Julia. So we'll have more on that for us in hot notes and the new chair of the house foreign affairs committee rep Eliot angles as he will start a new committee to investigate Trump's private meeting with Putin in Helsinki. Then I'd put beans on them issuing a subpoena for that translator. And finally crazy reporting came out from the New York Times that the F B I opened an inquiry investigation into whether Trump was a Russian asset as you might have heard. It's kind of been on the news an all cover that in hot notes. So that's the week's news. We'll be right back. Hey Miller junkies. Have you heard about Zola? They are totally reinventing the wedding registry and planning process that you can stop worrying about all the small stuff and focus on the big day over half a million couples Muzola because it takes the stress out of planning. And it does that by offering everything you need in one place. You get a free wedding website. You can set up you get your wedding registry. 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And to get fifty percent off your registry today. You'll be glad you did. All right. Welcome back. Notes. Today and hot notes Jordan is gonna give us an update on the NRA. But I release has a story about the Trump organization hiring lawyer to oversee responses to democratic investigations Julia Woody fourth. Yeah. Basically that on on Friday, we learned that from a let's back. On friday. We learned from a letter that was sent to the house oversight committee that the Trump organization is hired. Former White House lawyer Stefan pass Tino open pronouncing that right? How's it spelt P A S S A N TI passan tina's? Tina? Okay, great. Yeah. He's there to help response. All the congressional investigations. They're facing regarding Trump's businesses and last year, passing Tino was the second ethics lawyer to leave the White House after that he went to go work for previous law firm. And now, he's back working Trump. So apparently for pre-bus he did in between his time when he quit last year from the White House and now so he started working for the Trump or guys their lawyer. But inbetween time he was with previous firm for some reason. Yeah. Little minor detail mention there and just skimmed right over I wonder if he's thought firm before or if he just went to that firm after the way how. Yeah, that's a good question. I'm not sure that I can look into. It basically it would've said he was there before if he had been. Yeah. 'cause that was CNN's reporting in their juicy and they like all the details. So, but the thing is he plans to recuse himself from any issues he worked on while at the White House, which would have to include anything in the ethics department considering that's the program. He was overseeing. So this is weird. And specifically passing Tino is representing Trump Oregon their response to a request by house oversight, chairman Elijah Cummings who in December asked for information concerning foreign payments to Trump's companies and since Friday, there was that was the deadline for this request Pasadena sent this letter reiterating a lot of the same claims that the Trump or or previously made which is basically claimed that payments from foreign government do not qualify as emoluments because they are fees for services, provided which is that seems 'cause I googled what he Molly is by definition. And it seems like it is a service. Or feet like a few per service. They can't just say that. It's not the thing. Because it's the thing. Truth isn't truth. This is weird base. You know from their letter and in response to the letter coming said, we will follow up as appropriate with the Trump organization. Seek them permission that we need a hate. How vague they have to be baseless, and we'll follow up as needed with subpoena up your ass, if that's required, basically. But there's so tame with their words, I'm just like these guys just said nonsense to you wish they could say what they really felt. I'm also kind of pissed that while the rest of the government shutdown the White House still gets to hire lawyers to cover their asses that sucks. I don't if he's got a legal fund that he's set up or if it's us. I really don't know really pisses me off. I also find funny that that Trump has ethic. Lawyers like whenever that comes up like they're not doing a very good job. They like to have. Yeah. What is it? I'm just curious. What what are they supposed to be doing ethics advisers? We'll basically member what happened with Matthew Whitaker. When you talked to the ethics advisers of the department of Justice to find out if he should recuse himself, and they're like, yeah. Like your answer get new team. Jyrki? They're all basically what we going to join. Yeah. Just it's funny that he said he's going to recuse himself from any matters that relate to ethics or whatever that dealt before. But he's gonna work. Walking ethical violation. So weird. But me, aren't emoluments and crimes aren't crime. I've just Webster's already working on changing the definition the new dishes out this year. Dan, fake laws. Yeah. Well, thanks for that reporting. Thank you, Jordan. What's the new on the NRA? Yes. So remember last month when I covered that story about Trump at RA using the same media company national media research, aka red eagle media, aka blue trout freedom, aka why people good to push this getting only ready swaggie. Swaggie? I love you. And they had used this company basically to push out identical ads on behalf of both an RA and then on the other side on behalf of Donald Trump. And this is against the law because independent groups are not supposed to have coordinated ad campaigns. But they did it anyway, because they probably thought nobody would notice or care to prosecute them. They had cover up companies basically to make it look like they were different entities. But the members were doing the work the members that were doing the work in the signatures that were made were identical for both ads purchase on behalf of Trump versus purchase on behalf of the NRA. So remember that? Yes. Well, we learned this week that some GOP congressional candidates did the same thing in two thousand sixteen and twenty eighteen it was three racist to be specific the first one is Josh hollies run for Senate in two thousand eighteen that's when he defeated Claire mccaskill in Missouri. The second one is Matt Rosenthal's run for Senate in two thousand eighteen in Montana, which he lost and number. Thirty is Richard Burs run for Senate in North Carolina in two thousand sixteen which he obviously one so mother Jones reports that if you see records showed FCC records showed ads for the NRA and the Senate campaigns had been signed off by the exact same person. This person is national media CFO John Farrell. We talked about that last time we covered this. And despite them trying to operate under another name, a Amen, which that's the dyslexic version of maga- and. That's Great America. Make again, great. That's very iota. Yeah. Poor Yoda Erica. Grave. Yeah. Himself over using his mind. But yet, so essentially all of this means that they basically did the exact same thing that Trump in the NRA win on cahoots together on outside groups are not supposed to share ad strategy with a candidates that they are supporting in the certainly would include releasing basically identical adds a reminder Larry noble, he was the F E C general counsel from nineteen eighty seven to two thousand said of this whole situation. Quote, it's hard to understand how you'd have the same person authorising placements for the NRA and the candidate and it not be coordination. Yeah. Ironically, John Farrell bio on his website says he makes sure quote every penny allocated for media is spent according to election laws. He must be part of that ethics group you're talking about. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. You gotta call your web wizard didn't change that bio sets that's wrong. So all this stuff with the Senate races turning out to be the exact same thing through and through. But instead of Trump is a candidate. It's those three Senate candidates, and that's just what's been uncovered so far who knows there could be more same same guy. Farrell, citing often everything same fake names that really just lead back to this national media group the similar ads by the way would sometimes run within minutes of each other. So like one would be at six forty two in another would be six fifty nine on the exact same channel. So it was really all national or one on behalf of the NRA one on behalf of the candidate themselves, and it was no coordination. Whatsoever. And it was all tracing back to the same group. So yeah, I'm guy. Same time. Same ad totally not involved at all. It was leave me believe what I say, not what you see truth is truth and sang he'd be like a doll or something. Yeah. Yeah. And that's like so obvious to they're literally gonna put it five minutes apart from each other. It's like a one two punch of stupid for the viewer. So the campaign legal center in the giffords Law Center to prevent gun violence have both filed official FCC complaints for these violations and the accused parties have not responded to any requests for comment as of now, there's unfortunately, not much precedent for this kind of thing being pursued as you may remember from our coverage last month. It's because the F E C is been an ideological gridlock for like a decade. However, F E C cases, always do remain confidential until they're completely resolved. So maybe stuff is actually happening. But we just won't know until it's over I wanna end this segment on a great, quote from that guy noble, the if you see council, he says, quote, what this reflects is F E C's lack of enforcement, and the lack of respect that the NRA and the vendor are showing toward the F E C and the law you do this. If you think no one is going to investigate. Yeah. Makes sense. Right. Ex- for that update. Well, damn NRA is. Yeah. Same shit different day. All right. I should be there slogan. Yeah. Dude. Same different day. That's SSD. That has a nice run. Okay. I like we're going with that. It's like a what would Jesus to thing. Exactly surprised. It's not something. We usually. Thanks to be new aim egg thing assoc- does legs like maga- and make America. No american. Getting. My bad, my bad or again, make America great that makes more sense. But I like it the other way it's like, yeah. It's more yoga. Yeah. All right, sorry. I had to close my segment with endless rambling or else. It wouldn't be a segment food. Meet you. We'll be you. All right. I'd like to go over the New York Times reporting about the FBI opening an inquiry on whether Trump was a Russian asset. If you're a longtime listener Muller junkie, you might be asking. So what what's the news here? We all knew the FBI was investigating Russia's interference back in two thousand sixteen code-named crossfire hurricane. We even have a whole bonus episode about it the main difference between that and this is the crossfire hurricane was an investigation into Russia and its interference in the election. A subsidiary of that investigation was whether or not anyone in the Trump campaign was knowingly or unknowingly involved that the crossfire hurricane investigation was about Russia did which both James Baker James Komi of testified to is what allowed Komi to tell Trump. He wasn't under investigation because he wasn't right. This inquiry though, this new one that we've learned about reported in the times Friday was looking at whether or not Trump was either an unwitting or deliberate agent working on behalf of Russia against American interests and back in two thousand sixteen they didn't really have the evidence or the four. The tude to look into Trump because how do you even begin to do that? That's a super like sensitive subject. So the it wasn't until twenty seventeen. When Trump started doing some shit that there were like, oh, this is pushing us over the edge. We're going to have to do this now. So the investigators wanted to determine if Trump's actions constituted, a national security issue, the investigation also had a criminal element. And that they were looking into whether the firing of Komi met the standards of obstruction of Justice, but it still about Russia and whether or not Russia opted Trump as an asset with his knowledge or not so these investigations and the Miller probe or about Russia and everything that's not such as the stormy Daniels campaign finance violations, they've all been handed off. Right. So let's get some background here in two thousand sixteen the FBI was suspicious of Trump, but didn't open an inquiry like I said because they were being ultra prudent again because of the significance and sensitivity. They were investigating the campaign. But the candidate himself was another story, but come 2017 there were three. Events surrounding the firing of James Comey that pushed the FBI over the edge. And they opened the counterintelligence part of the investigation with criminal elements. Those three events were Trump telling Lester Holt that he had Russia on his mind when he fired Komi, and when he told Russians in the Oval Office that the Russia cloud was lifted because he fired Komi who was a nutjob. The pressure was lifted. Yeah. And finally, there was the letter Trump wrote to Comi about why he was firing him that mentioned Russia the version of that letter was never sat however because Mcgann and Rosenstein told him that was stupid, dude, that's a crime and Rosenstein, even wrote him a more restrained letter and said don't mention Russia in the letter, bro. And at that time, Trump told Rosenstein to include Russia, he was pissed that he that Rosenstein letter didn't have it in their Rosenstein ignored him, which seems to happen. A lot in the investigation in the Trump administration. People stealing documents and rewriting them behind his back. Yeah. That piss Trump off even more and he included Russia in his final letter when he thanked Komi. For telling him three times he wasn't under investigation. A couple of days after the counterintelligence and criminal enquiries were open Muller was appointed and took over both this inquiry and the crossfire hurricane stuff. Oh, shoot all under the Muller. Yeah. So the key here, and we've known all these things we knew that they were like we were looking at obstruction of Justice because of what he said to Lester Holt because he told the Russians in the Oval Office because that letter that Rosenstein told him not to send Maganto not to send we knew all this was obstructed Justice. But we were under acting under the impression that that was criminal of structure of Justice, and that it was separate from the counterintelligence collusion part investigation. The key here is at the obstruction of Justice aspect of firing Komi was also collusion matter. That's the news here. Okay. It's a matter of national security fire in Komi, not only obstruct Justice in the usual way, we think of obstruction. But it also hurts the FBI's effort to determine how Russia. Interfered with the election, and if any Americans were involved, that's according to James Baker, the FBI general counsel at the time who if you're an MSW listener would know is part of the Komi five the five guys at the top of the FBI that COMEX shared his contemporaneous notes with and it's the news that we didn't yet know like I said someone read part of baker's private testimony to the New York Times this week. And he had said, quote, not only would it be an issue of obstructing investigation, but the obstruction it self would hurt our ability to figure out what the Russians had done, and that is what would be a threat to national security, unquote. That means obstruction is collusion. So by firing Komi Trump was helping Russia by making it hard for our F B I to investigate their interference into our election. That's aiding and abetting a foreign power, which we know is part of conspiracy. Which is what everybody tall took calls collusion. Right. Yeah. So a couple of points. I wanna make about this story. First Rosenstein joke about wearing a wire around Trump finally makes. Cents how so because it wasn't funny before we're like, that's not funny. Why is that even funny? But if they were two days ahead of time fire, you know, for Muller was appointed talking about investigating Trump that that they had opened inquiries and whether or not he has been co opted as a Russian asset wearing a wire around him becomes a funny joke xactly, so good job. You just got funnier in my book. He I'm sure he didn't. But now the joke makes sense, right? Secondly, this reporting sort of fuses the criminal and counterintelligence silos of the more investigation into one thing. We kind of already knew this though because Komi stated in his announcement. That as with any counterintelligence investigation. This will also include an assessment of whether any crimes were committed. So it's ever since two thousand and two some Feis case it's been kind of known that the the FBI doesn't go at counterintelligence separately from crimes, they it's all they go with the full force of everything they're allowed to bring right, but we have been here at Muller. She wrote I have been a lot of the mainstream media we've all kind of been under this impression operating under this assumption that the collusion investigation, which is the counterintelligence part is separate from the obstruction investigation, which is the criminal part. And that we would beginning a separate report on obstruction versus the collusion cases. But with this new reporting, it becomes clear that the firing of Komi and things like that aren't simply criminal obstruction in its inextricably linked to the FBI's counterintelligence or collusion investigation and Ben witness in law. Fair says, quote, FBI officials thought of it rather in the context of the underline counterintelligence purpose of the Russian vestige Asian on. Quote, and that James Baker when he was asked whether the firing of Komi had added to the threat of national security that the FBI was confronting. He said, yes. So when folks like bar and Whitaker and Giuliani say that the president can't obstruct Justice. Cozy is just as an under article two. He has the right to fire, whomever. He wants that could apply to the criminal aspect of obstruction of Justice. Right. If your argument is that the president's above the law, but it wouldn't apply to the intelligence aspect, right? Which could be the bulk of this and has been with us of law. Fair rights that could raise a different legal question about whether the president can be under counterintelligence investigation by his own F B I, but that's not the issue being argued by the president's allies. So with this new understanding is Muller going to issue two different reports on collusion obstruction? Or are. They know linked with many different threads leading into the cases like Flynn, and Manafort and gates and Cohen. And if it's the latter will all that really be wrapping up next month. I mean, we were talking about how NBC was going to say that the reports gonna come out at the end of February and Rosenstein is going to leave and I was like, well, maybe the obstruction part. Well, now, we're learning the obstruction part is the collusion part. And that would mean one whole big report. Right. And that would be coming out in February. And you know, we've been talking about how the Andrew Miller case is still ongoing malicious ask for six more months for his grand jury. He hasn't even received the documents. He's trying to get from country a right in that secret subpoena battle so when Rosenstein says he's stepping down early in March 'cause molars wrapping up which in our old way of thinking would be impossible. But with collusion an obstruction inextricably linked and taking into account. The letter outlining the scope with a Muller investigation written by Rosenstein Muller is responsible for investigating and reporting. We now have a new picture, and I reached out to David priests to bouncing ideas off of him. And he was basically saying look those things the Miller thing and the company a country eighth-inning could be a tiny little percent of things. That are on done and would Muller wait until every single thread from this case had gone to trial and had a conclusion before he finally broke a final report. No because he's not Ken Starr. He's not going to put out a conclusive report that draws conclusions about this thing. He's an investigator. He's a prosecutor. He's putting together a report with all the evidence to say, I've got here's all everything. I've got y'all can continue at the DOJ to investigate this. How you please. Here's my report. And that report wouldn't necessarily have to wait for all these little tiny things to be tied up. Does that make sense that does make sense? It does make sense. But what if some of those things have something that I think's would be consequential enough to the investigation as a whole, you know, then he wouldn't file his report. Right. Let's kind of what I'm thinking. I don't think there's any ways going out in February. I do now though because I think there's so much. We don't know though, you're assuming we well, you're not I'm not saying, I'm assuming what you're assuming. Because I was thinking this myself that those are big things. But I keep telling myself, we only know one percent of what's going on the bulk of it could already be done. Yeah. All the shit. We don't know. And these things that we think are huge might be tiny. Right. And I mean, a normal or not political. But it does make sense that that house would continue investigating these kind of things. So Muller knows it wouldn't be for not like the DOJ would. Oh, yeah. Them too. So like, yeah. Muller would just be setting it up and passing the torch, essentially, right, right? Here's all my findings the bulk of it. There's all these, you know, we're going to figure out what under Miller's doing and talking to David pres. And you know, of course, this is all speculation. We don't know for sure, but I'm trying to figure out how could the report possibly be done the NFL with all of these outstanding things. And that was the initial thought was that those are tiny compared to what he actually knows. So it's. I don't know. I honestly don't know the answer. But I assume and I've emailed a couple of experts on this. And I don't have the answer yet. But I'm gonna go ahead and tell you what I assume because I'm not afraid of being wrong. That. These threads that haven't been wrapped up or gone to trial or concluded could be continued to be investigated by the department of Justice and indictments could be issued after the Miller report comes out as those investigations continue. And I also had asked a couple of experts which I don't have the answer to yet. Whether or not the DOJ can continue to use Muller's grand jury, which would be a reason for him to extend the grand jury, six more months. Be like I'm going to give you my report, but you can continue to use my grand jury because it's originated from this. And this is the grandeur who's investigating these matters. But I don't have the answer to that yet either. But in my eyes, that's the I'm not gonna say I think that he's done. What I'm saying is if that's the way the report could come out at the end of February. Right. It was going to like a springboard basically for those who want to continue atone, right? This isn't the fully. This isn't his report is not the end. Yeah. It is the starting point. Yeah. Yeah. I guess it just depends on what you think Muller's and role is. Sort of in all of this. If you think it's more to like alleyoop, then totally February makes sense, right? And David Preece brought that up to he's like, I haven't looked at the charging documents for Archibald Cox in the Watergate and Ken Starr in the Clinton investigation. Maybe they said go all the way to the end and wrap it all up and then report, whereas we looked at together on the phone. We looked at the document that Rosenstein wrote about what Muller supposed to do is just investigate these matters of Russia. Anything that arises and anything that arises out of that. And that might signal to Muller it's not my job to reach conclusions here. My job is to give you what I mean. Yeah. And so these things can continue because he might have already found everything he needs in the Andrew Miller case. Yeah. That's a good point. But it still needs to be concluded. But it can be concluded by the department of Justice. Right. Totally kinda make sense. Yeah. Because I'm sitting here. Like hope it's the other. Like the latter. The that he's just going to see it all through till the bitter end and everyone's going to jail, and that's what I'm going to be dangerous to our. I mean, everyone will go to jail whether the J continues to tie up the loose ends that don't require any further investigation or require investigation. But you know, he's already got the starting point. And all the information that we need about it enough to prosecute hopefully, but he might be like, dude, if I wait until we tie up every loose end until this thing goes the next year through appeals with Miller or whatever. And then we have all the trials and the conclusions are drawn if I wait another three years, we could reelect this, man. Yeah. So this also might be one of his decisions that he's making. In favor of Justice for the democracy versus Justice for individuals. Do you know? Yeah. That makes total sense. Yeah. I hope if that happens DOJ can remain unbiased enough, and they're, you know, efforts through that plane to work. Yeah, they have so far and see why. Well, this this whole report in the New York Times about the department of Justice in the FBI re opening these counterintelligence in criminal investigations into obstruction as collusion. Solidify my faith that the FBI even though it's run by Trump's people will do the right thing. This gives this makes me feel better. I'm gonna sleep better tonight. Yeah. Knowing that they open these investigations, and and priests David priests it said that there's no reason going on to what I was talking about earlier. There's no reason that every to think that every prosecution that's an outgrowth of this investigation has to be concluded or all the appeals that would follow in those would have to be concluded for Muller defiles report. And that all those investigations that would need completing could be picked up by the department of Justice. Anyway. So that's kind of. If Muller filed his report at the end of February. That's how he can do it. Yeah. And even though there's probably two or three years left of trials and threads and investigations and indictments to come out further exactly in general. He'd really be putting pressure on the people in the congress and the OJ said do their jobs like he wouldn't be that like savior that everybody. I guess S included kinda makes him out to be. Sometimes exactly that's exactly what Joyce Vance's told us. That's what Ben widow said. That's what David pre said to me on the phone. He's not a white Knight. He's not here to save us. All he's here to give us investigate give us the facts. And then it's up to us to parliament of Justice, the the agencies the people the congress to do the work of the people. He is not a Ken Starr is pretty much. What he sees? Like, hey, I'll give you everything that you need. Then you do as you will. Yeah. I do get wrapped up in the romanticize idea of him being that hero. That's going to save every. Anything and I trust him. And I know he's smart any jobs, and those lines to me, he is, you know, white Knight and a hero in that. He's gathering all these facts. Diligently, and he's going to represent it in a way that can't be refuted exactly, and those facts and those crimes are going to be so bullet proof because of the way that he's conducted this investigation, and without any leaks. And completely thoroughly that it it's going to give us this really solid. Beefy solid report that we can take and use of this. I think it was kind of bullshit, right? It won't be like the dossier where they can be like, well, we haven't seen the evidence Miller has all the evidence -actly. Yeah. Because that's his job as an investigator on prosecutor, totally. It's not his job to be the judge and jury of judge jury shop. Exactly. Really? Dan, that's intense. Like, not only does he have to worry about just the investigation inherently also how fits into the grander scheme of things. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, we've been talking about forever about how he's not just interested in methods and procedures and rules. But he's also interested in Justice for the country, the democracy, people the American people, and that kind of falls into that. Like, I'm not gonna wait three years to do this and wrap everything up and make conclusions for you. Right because we don't have time. And you know, this is also we all have our own jobs to do exactly. But on the flip side that could have been poor reporting by NBC. But now they're also seeing sources close to rod Rosenstein or saying that because he's leaving. And I've I've wondered myself to rod Rosenstein is a witness in the obstruction case, which is now the obstruction in collusion case. And why is he able to able to over q or over cues oversee the more investigation when someone like Whitaker who's got his own opinions about the cases, not exactly and, you know, this is super space beans, but what if he's leaving? So he can testify. Oh synapse. Snap. He couldn't testify with the position. He's in now. Well, he would be in direct called as a witness. He would be in direct conflict. Right. That'd be James Comey. Couldn't do it until after he was fired. Right. Well, it's not so much that it's it's that if you're going to oversee the more investigation, you can't be part of it like sessions couldn't oversee the more investigation because he was part of the campaign. Ryan he was being investigated. And I think that if you're a witness or you have inside information into a case, you can't oversee it, right? Yeah. He'd have to like, I guess I was thinking he could recuse himself from a case as opposed to leaving the position as a whole or something. But it's too late by this point the cases well in that that time has come in past aghast, super speculation. You might be able to oversee an investigation and be a witness in. It doesn't make sense to me. I would be mad about that. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I guess because but he also might have the same ethics advisers that Whitaker. No, no. Yeah. I guess I guess Whitaker decided to stay Rosenstein could decide to stay right? Isn't that? What happened? Yeah. We'll and then like with sessions. I mean, that's kind of one of the main reasons he recused himself for a similar thing. He was again a criminal in it up into perjure himself. Hopefully didn't say that when accused himself. He just said I was involved in the campaign. And that's why I'm recusing myself. Rules are clear, and he followed them Whitaker went to the ethics advisory. They're like, you should recuse yourself recused. But he technically doesn't have to. Yeah. And maybe Rosenstein was told you should recuse yourself because you're witness indicate in this case. And he's like, I don't think I'm gonna for the sake of Justice or investigations continued on and stuff and the right ways. But I think Matthew Whitaker has shown us that even if you're supposed to recuse you don't have to. Yeah. So it could be that too. Right. He might have been a witness this whole time. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. It seems like to be called as a witness is different than someone like sessions. Active participant in your not objector target or right now, even I don't even think downtime sessions was a subject, but just they might know something we don't know. Yeah. And I guess there exists the potential to reveal your opinions and the consequences. You know, people may think that would have on your ability to oversee the investigation is kind of the risk that being a witness would pose. Yeah. But again, I mean if snoop Dogg decides he doesn't want to recuse himself. Maybe just doesn't have to interesting degs feeding of did you see SUV dogs video? So far tell. Yeah. He just supposed amazing selfie video from like his waistline. Just like look down like basically, telling all the federal employees that are not getting paid right now that you're crazy if you ever vote for Trump, again, don't forget this shit because he doesn't give a fuck Abed. You any doesn't give a fuck about any the best keeping real, man. You got to look at is doc, doc Levy. Big ups. Are you guys will be right back? Hey Miller junkies. It's a new year. And it's not too late for those resolutions. I always start mine at weird times anyway because too much pressure on you. And if there's one tool that you need in your belt, self care and better health, it's Neum. I don't have enough time to say how is in these ads, but let's start with the basics. It's an amazing app. That has a food. Log a nutritionist health coach community support lifestyle hacks psych tricks, a step counter and an exercise log and motivation all in one place, it's all together. And I used to have to use so many different apps to track all that. I had a log and had a separate exercise tracking app. All in one place. Step counters, so great. And I love that little my coach. He's he's good too. Big things. I've always had trouble with or my all or nothing attitude. Like if I'm doing good for three days. And then I have a cookie I'm like, well, I just what seven three. This. Do you do that? Because I l. Yeah. That's all that's a big thing. No, no be-. Sorry. That's a cool thing about noon. They're different. They're teaching me how to modify my relationship with food. Have. No shame in those things. Don't look at burritos this shameful delicious burritos. Right. They have that one of their amazing lessons. They teach is teach. You is that you're gonna have ups and downs to your journey, basically. And when you hit those down to know that there's going to be up that's normal. And you don't have to commit to eating seventy six does for the next three days to punish yourself. Or to be like, it's all for nothing. Anyway, I had a right, but it's it's not only resulted in weight loss, but I feel better and happier less stressed. And we have a tour coming up. We're going to be needing are energy along with tips on how to stay on track. When traveling because that can be really hard. It's gonna make it release. Yeah. How we feel about self care. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. It's it's really good. And the way that the app is set up it feels like a little game that you get to do sort of few minutes a day. It's not hard. And it's good information. And you're doing something to make your life better. Yeah. Like, how if you drive a one of those hybrid cars that gives you a little thing about how much energy you're saving, and it makes you want to save more energies super like that good psychics. I love it. Yeah. So give yourself this amazing gift by heading to Neum dot com slash AG and sign up today. That's N O M dot com slash AG. Take their thirty-second quiz. Find out how long it will take to re- triple. That's Neum dot com slash gauge. What have you got to lose? All right. You guys. Are you ready for the fantasy indictment league? All right. Let's get through at Jordan. You get to pick. I this time because I picked first last time I'll draft last this time, and we'll go around into each have five sound good. All right. Don. I know he's got him last week like last all right. Junior. Eric prints. No, ace proctology prints. Superseding Manafort, diamonds, superseding Manafort, s Manafort all aboard. He has or we'll just keep going and see Fargo. So someone catches us. That's what that does. Cried some reason something you'd say. I'm gonna go with us on. Oh, buck. Leeza Trump org. Trump org. They just hired a new lawyer didn't they all right Kushner? Hush and we're out. No kidding. How about? I von Secca. Nice doogie Coursey yet. No, no. Of course, he dropping the Paul. Let's do. I definitely want a Rando. Oh, wait. You know, what I'm gonna do vessel net sky. On the off chance that dots are connected. So she wasn't ided Ron her whole civil forfeiture in that separate case. But you're saying. Related indictment. No plea agreement. No, no God. No. Damn. Boy, Arken nice. That's right. That weird name. I can remember. Erickson the beast did someone get did. You know, you got prints. Okay. One two three four you got one more. Okay. Rando? Julius randle. Please. The leaves me. I went last. I don't know why. Damn. Stone. I'm kidding fixed. It's going to be him. How about Boyle? Okay. Molehill? It's been awhile. It's time. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So I've got junior Assange Ivanka boy in Boyle, Julius got prints tampons. No Trump or Coursey Ericsson and Rando and Joko. You've got stone. Superseded Manafort Cush, doesn't it sky in the Muller investigation and Rando. Yes, I'm good. All right. Cool. You guys ready for sabotage. Yes. All right. So this weekend, sabotage guys, I can't believe this. But there's a report that I've on Trump could lead the World Bank. So the first daughter's name is said to be floating around Washington, but it wouldn't be her first unconventional role in the world. So the financial times reported Friday that Trump is floating Ivonne Kaz name around Washington to to be president of the World Bank. Because we get to nominate that person the United States gets to nominate that person the role soon be open due to the departure of Jim Yong, Kim, that's the current president his departing surprisingly we were surprised by that. But. On politics at least in Twitter. The idea that replacement by be the first daughter was met with widespread. Scorn. Yeah. That's the reason why she's actually being considered World Bank president. That's why I have on my fantasy indictment league. Also, I mean, she also laundered money and did that whole Azerbaijan things corrupt and she's a complete criminal. But I feel like being dominated the World Bank could make her be vetted by other countries intelligence. You know agency agency dig up something there like it's just going to put a big microscope global microscope honor, and those agencies might share that Intel with Muller, and then boom, we might have something that pops up. So that's kind of why I was like, oh, she's going to be under scrutiny right more scrutiny than she is you that unless he wanted to eating into money grab or is it some position of power that he thinks would give him leverage. I guarantee you it's one hundred percents self interest. Yes. Right. Right. I think he just has children. So that he can have spawns of himself come out. So we can be two places at once. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. It's like little moneymakers running around for you or money losers. Yeah. Most people have children just so they do. Yeah. And and change the channel on the TV before controls. But yeah, this is just that. They they're like Putin oligarchs, basically. Yeah, they're American O'Leary Trump crotch fruit. Gross. I know sorry. It's okay. All right, guys. It's time for the interview. And this is going to be amazing. And I was so nervous to talk to this guy. But it went so well, and he was so kind so everybody check it out. All right. So back in the mid to late two thousands, some bad Hombre stole about two hundred thirty million dollars in a Russian tax fraud scheme, and then laundered that money through real estate transactions in New York using Cyprus-based based investment firm called prevalant holdings Magnitsky a tax fraud specialists alleged that the feft was carried out by Russian officials and Putin a guy who we know gets rich stealing from the Russian people targeted Magnitsky. So they arrested him in two thousand eight and they beat him and starved him and tortured him didn't provide him healthcare while he was imprisoned in he died in Russian custody. And then we get to Bill Browder. He's the CEO of Hermitage Capital who in response to Magnitsky's murder lobbied, congress US congress to pass the Magnitsky act to punish human rights violators. Obama signed it into law and twenty twelve and in response. Putin band US adoptions of Russian children Putin also put together group of anti Magnitsky act lobbyists which included vessel at scion. And she pitched her tail to folks like Dana Rohrabacher who just recently lost his bid for congress. And he even she even brought her Magnitsky file to that June two thousand sixteen Trump Tower meeting and she also worked for the team defending present holdings who in a strange plot. Twist hired a firm to dig up dirt on its enemies, which included Bill Browder, and that firm was fusion GPS. And that's the same firm that Republicans and then Democrats hired to get up research on Trump. Also, the same firm that hired Christopher Steele who wrote the dossier. And that's why I think Republicans wouldn't stop asking about prep on holdings and testimony from witnesses involved in this case because they were trying to discredit that dossier. So this week vessel guy was indicted for obstructing Justice in the civil forfeiture case for the money laundering scheme, and she's charged with coordinating response with Kremlin officials to whitewash document filed with the court about. Prevot on holdings, and she got caught. So joining us today to discuss the indictment of veselnitskaya is the CEO of Hermitage Capital the architect of the global Magnitsky act and the author of red notice, please welcome Bill Browder Bill. Thanks for joining us on Muller. She wrote a great to be here. So I I know it's hard to sum up. But is that the story in a nutshell, did I miss any glaring obvious things that should be brought to light. Well, I'm actually working on my next book. And and it's going to be about four hundred pages to discuss that. So for you to be able to do that in three minutes is a big accomplishment. Thank you. It was really difficult. I remember watching your testimony July twenty seventeen and listening to the chilling story of of the capture and murder of Magnitsky. So yeah, it was tough to sum up there. But I did want to get your top line reaction this week on the indictment of vessel sky. Well, I I was delighted to see it. The tally vessel. Knits guy is a person who pushed every boundary and pushed beyond what was legal in many places in order to do the Kremlin's bidding. And and we saw her cheating in the US case in which the US department of Justice was prosecuting her client presume, and she was cheating. And this is where it gets interesting is that in order for the US prosecute prep resume. They wanted to get documents through what's called a mutual legal assistance request from the Russian government. And so the United States government asked the Russian government for documents to prove the case. And what happened then was that the tally of vessels sky, effectively goes into the office of the Russian government where where she's agent of the Russian government. Instead of the Russian government replying to the department of Justice, the tally vessel midst guy replies. To the department of Justice. And she says we're not going to give you those documents. And then she makes a fake story about how me and Sergei were the ones that did the crime that her client was accused of and what makes the story. So fascinating is that the US department of Justice got hold of her emails and got hold of documents of word documents with properties in track changes that show that she was the one editing documents replying from the Russian government, the US government. And so she got caught red-handed, and it's it's it's very satisfying to watch her again indicted and into watch her squirm, and and and make all these crazy comments after being indicted by the US government. Yeah. Exactly. And it does actually give a proof that she is connected to the Kremlin pretty strongly. And I also wanted to ask you, do you know of any of the Prevot on real estate deal. In New York were in any way connected to Trump or anyone in his family like Kushner? Well, there's a sort of they're sort of connected in very obtuse way. The the only way I can say they're connected is that presumed bought a bunch of properties from a company called ASI. If I is a company owned by lev, I f and lev leviathan af I were involved with Jared Kushner in the New York Times building transaction a couple years earlier. But I think that's a pretty tenuous connection of any at all. Yeah. Definitely kind of third or fourth beano times removed from that. But I was just interested because I I wasn't able to find a lot of information on it something else. Interesting is that Trump fired Preet Berrara who was handling this case or overseeing it two days. I think before the premise on case went to trial and then shortly after that the case was settled, why do you suppose, do you? Did you find any odd? Anything ought about. That I didn't. I think the case settled mainly because the the the US government were were able to get three times the amount of money that they had tracked to New York in settlement. So they they track two million dollars of dirty Russian money coming into the United States and Forever's settled for six I guess they had recently frozen fourteen. And so their idea was why not take just six instead of risking a jury trial for the fourteen and then possibly end up having to pay the other side's fees. If the jury trial goes the wrong way. Okay, that make sense and to your point about when you know, vessels sky was caught red-handed coordinating with Russia on this response to the court that happened back. I think in twenty fifteen why do you suppose they waited until this past December to indict her? Well, so so they didn't know about it until last year. All this information came out in an NBC news. Report about a year ago. And after the NBC news report, I would imagine that the I I was gobsmacked when I watched this show where where they are actually had the documents NBC news had the documents. And I'm sure that the people the US Justice department of the same reaction that I did. And it I would say it's actually lightning speed. They saw my own observation of how quickly cases get put together at the Justice department a year from from recognition of crime to an indictment as is a pretty fast moving thing. And so I don't think there's anything unusual about that. Okay. Let's get to know. I you know, that was one of the big questions that a lot of our listeners had is why it took so long. But that seems to be along the time line tracks of how the Justice department operates. How do you think the Trump Tower meeting with sky figures into this story? And I mean, what do you make manafort's notes during that meeting which included your name and something that said value in Cyprus as inter among other things, what do you make of all that? Well, so. A lot of the lot of the the the press reported that vessel guy was being indicted on a separate matter than the Trump Tower meeting. That's just not true. The tally vessel guy had one basic goal or sort of two two goals under one heading which was to discredit me and discredit Sergei Magnitsky on behalf of Vladimir Putin to have the Magnitsky act repealed that was her main as which he was tasked with in the United States, and she was operating on very aggressive plan to do that and her lying in in this court case in this obstruction of Justice was part of that and going to the Trump Tower meeting meeting with Donald Trump junior, Jared Kushner, and Paul Manafort with requests from Putin that if if Donald Trump gets elected would he please repeal the Magnitsky act is all part and parcel of the same thing. Okay. So it's about. You know lifting sanctions. Yes. So just the understand the context. Vladimir Putin is one of the richest men in the world, he became rich by killing people stealing assets imprisoning people had cetera. Like he did with Sergei Magnitsky. He's gotten so rich. He keeps all money off shore. And the Magnitsky act says that people who commit human rights abuses can have their money offshore frozen as of ladder. Putin feels very personal about this and bladder Putin as a lot of money that can be frozen offshore. And and so after the Mickey act passed in two thousand twelve buttery Putin issued a a foreign policy white paper sort of strategy Baber about his foreign policy for the world. And he said that repealing the Magnitsky at was his single largest foreign policy priority with the United States. And so this is something which he feels very very personal about he really wants to achieve and he's ready to go to great lengths with all sorts of. Operations to get there. Yeah. Absolutely. And one of the things that I was wondering about that. I had I had read was that. And I wanted to ask you does the Magnitsky act still allow the president of the United States to veto individuals on the fact sanctions list. Well, the way that Magnus Kiet works is that the State Department, and the Treasury Department's are tasked with putting together the list of people to be sanctioned and every year in December the Magnitsky act should be updated to add new people strangely. This year didn't happen. Not so strangely. The reason it didn't happen is that everybody working in the sanctions team is on furlough because of the government shutdown, but because because this is an executive decision the president can block people from that are being proposed by the State Department or the treasury department. The president in theory can take people off the list of if if he wants to and and he has pretty much unlimited latitude the only the president can't do is repealed Magnitsky act Magnitsky act was passed as an act of congress and sociable law to disappear. It would require an act of congress to repeal it. I say and that kind of ties into this week when the secretary of Trump's treasury Steve Mnuchin gave a closed door briefing to congress about lifting sanctions on Oleg Dera Pasqua. Can you tell us how the Magnitsky act will play a role maybe in helping block that lifting of sanctions? Well, so so the older POSCO was sanctioned under the cats the law, which was the election hacking law, not the Magnitsky act, but it uses the same exact treasury tools to sanction people. It is an extremely extremely powerful tool because it by going after the richest people in the richest Russians by putting them on the sanctions list. It's it's absolutely devastating. Now. This this whole der POSCO's situation is very very unpleasant for me to watch because like pasta for any observer of Russia. We all know that he is. Effectively alter ego Putin. He's he's a guy who's like a private sector arm of the Putin regime. He does stuff in the private sector that you know, for Putin that Putin couldn't do because he's president. And so by sanctioning Dr pasta was really a sort of like a neutron bomb going off over Moscow. And the fact that they're now discussing lifting part of the sanctions against Dera pasta is a very very, ugly development and all the justifications that they're using for wider lifting. Sanctions don't make any sense to me. Yes us. Yeah. They don't make sense to us either. And it just seems like another way that just seems like one of the many ways they're trying to circumvent these sanctions. Well, I mean just just in case people don't know the arguments that they're making their basically saying that Oliveira their pasta. Owns an aluminum company, a energy company and some other bits and pieces, and the treasury Mnuchin is saying, you know, we we mean to sanction him, but we don't want to destroy the livelihood of people working in these companies. And therefore what they're saying is that it he reduces his ownership stake from seventy percent to forty five percent, then that will make the treasury comfortable that he doesn't control the company's anymore, but that's just nonsense. Anybody who spent more than five minutes on Wall Street or even know somebody Wall Street knows that forty owning forty five percent of a company means you control the company, and so the idea that that somehow he doesn't control it. If you bring him down below fifty percent is just a week sort of we excuse to basically give him a huge gift. Right. And that and didn't I read that v TB was actually buying a lot of these shares? Of course, the is going to buy shares, and there's gonna be a a guy named Lord Barker British guy, who's been who was like his personal concierge who's going to be the trustee in all is going to be as you know. It's all smoke and mirrors, and the and the reality is they're all just snickering in the background thinking that they legged us over one more time. Well, I hope congress press this issue because it's it's disturbing to me that they're even thinking about lifting sanctions on on him or Roussel or any of his companies. But one last thing I wanted to ask you about you spent a greater part of your time on activities in support of the Magnitsky act, which pretty much passed the Senate unanimously, I think there were two holdouts famous famous holdout was Bernie Sanders, and I was wondering if you've ever had occasion to speak with him about that vote. And do you know why he opposed it? I do not know, and I, you know, during the previous election win when some of my left-wing, friends were feeling the burn. I would I would run them. I say this is a guy who voted against the Magnitsky act. I I don't I don't know why he did that. But I hold it against him. I mean, it was a ninety eight to to to vote. Yeah. I've heard both sides of that story. And some folks say that he was he voted. No because it didn't go far enough gave the executive too much power. But I I haven't been able to confirm that with anybody that doesn't make any sense to me. All right before I let you go. Can you tell us about your book read notice? So my book read notice is a an account of of how I ended up in Russia. How I started my business in Russia. How for while? It was a an amazing and successful business. And then I encountered the most horrible corruption anyone could ever imagine. And the Russians were stealing everything. I tried to fight the stealing in that led to being expelled from the country. My company seized my lawyer, Sergei Magnitsky arrested, tortured and murdered. And then the last third of the book is my fight for Justice, which culminates in the passage of the Magnitsky act, which is the thing that that Putin hates more than anything. It's a it's a it's a book, which you'll you'll learn a lot about Russia, but you don't have to care about. Russia read it because it it's just a fascinating and terrifying story all the way through. Absolutely. It is terrifying. I encourage everybody to pick up that book read notice. I also encourage you to watch Bill Browder testimony to congress from twenty seventeen and listen to two of molar she wrote it's all about the Magnitsky act and Bill Browder testimony. Everyone's CEO of Hermitage Capital and author of red notice Bill Browder Bill, thanks for joining us on Muller. She wrote thank you. All right, guys. That's our show for this week big big news. And if you know people who want to know about what's going on in Muller news, which is going to start happening, more and more. Now, I have a feeling especially with this latest New York Times report, send them our way recommend us to your friends who are like I can't keep up on all this. We're happy to help. If you're not a patron become one. We have a mid week episode now where we'll be giving you all the news that comes out in the first couple of days of the week that you wouldn't have normally have to wait until Sunday to here. And we you know, we re re to a little bit for the Sunday episode. So it doesn't sound so repeating for you, and we're also taking suggestions on segments from the mid week episode. We've got. A lot of good ideas of our. Here's some of my favorites. You guys tell me what you think. Okay. Let's see here. Cocktail happy hour hump day. Happy hour. Where we come up with a cocktail like the Moscow Muller, and we say how to make it and we drink it. I love that idea because we do went Saint Wednesdays. Yeah. What? Plus we get to drink. Yeah. Oh, we're gonna make it. Yeah. I'm going to have a cocktail person come in here and make the cocktails for us. All we'll hell yet about it. And we'll give you the recipe, then you can have the cocktail with us. That's the best. Yeah. I'm so down. So there's that there's the DEM gavels investigations where we just cover, you know, this week in the house Dem's investigate. Don't don't let and gobble sound like it. 'cause it sounds like them gavels like, yeah. Exactly him gavels, beautiful loved them gals dim DOE. See I don't even know what that is. So that makes it good. Way back Wednesday where we look at old clips and see how they've played out. Oh, quote of the week get listeners and patrons to submit quotes and pick one good news for a change, which I would do to Moore sees good times. And then we would give you some good news that came out this week. So that's kind of like a nice self care balance Muller junkies. Assemble or activate wonder twins activate a weekly call to action. Yeah. That QNA for patrons. And we only do the Q in mid week since we do interviews now on Sundays whatever happened to blank that's another one. Where are they now? Yeah. Yeah. And then self-care departure like albums we like to relax to or other health healthy distractions. Nice. So those are some of the ideas, I love them, and you have any other ideas guys Email us. Hello more. She wrote or at us and Twitter at at militia. What is it Adler Shiro? Someone had a really funny one that I don't know if it'll work, but it's just called how fucked are we? Yeah. I get that question a lot when we did the Cuban Q and the answer is always. That's how fucked you're, and that's just how it always is. And if you want us to do that every week that's cool too. But we want us to be for patrons. Because it's it is. And so we want you guys to give us input. So again, send us all your information. If you're a patron three bucks, patriot dot com slash militia wrote get it you also get all kinds of cool gifts. You get the entire archive. You get the newsletter with show notes, you get the book club episodes, plus all the old ones and the future. One's adversary episodes. I mean, there's so much stuff newsletter. Yeah. Yeah. Oh fancy indictment league. You can play fantasy indictment. Ling discounts the tickets if we ever go do cool shit. Yeah. You. Yeah. When we tour when go on tour, we should have a live league, experienced VIP meet-and-greet. We can have a draft. I don't know. Yeah. But there's so much stuff that that you get for three as little as three bucks a month. So it's totally where that I've been told I'm giving the farm totally fine. I think you guys are worth it. So that's it. That's all we have for this week. You guys have any last thoughts. Heavy. Good sunday. Yeah. Night family. My birthday is next week birthday, gene. Thanks. Yeah. The next episode comes out on birthday. That's awesome. You're gonna party hard. No party Harney script, hard, probably. Script hard something. Yeah. I might have a nice dinner. I don't know. I don't know something my birthday shows are all this weekend. So the oh, okay. Okay. I don't know what I'm doing next weekend. But you know, I'm not old just said everyone realise realize anyway, thank you guys so much. You're supports overwhelming. We love you and keep being bad asses. I've been I've been Lisa Johnson. I've been Jordan Coburn. And this is Muller. She wrote. Militia wrote is producing engineered by AG with editing logo designed by Lisa Johnson, our marketing consultant and social media manager is Sara Lee Steiner and our subscriber and communications director, Jordan, Coburn fact, checking research, by AG and research assistance budget. Lisa Johnson and Jordan Coburn. Our merchandising managers early Steiner, and Sarah Hershberg Valencia our web design and Brandon are by Joel reader with design studios, and our website is militia wrote dot com.

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E1007: DoNotPay CEO & Founder Josh Browder built an AI lawyer to fight corporations & governments, demos product features & how it helps consumers, shares insights on following in footsteps of his father Bill Browder, & future of consumer empowerment

This Week in Startups

00:00 sec | 11 months ago

E1007: DoNotPay CEO & Founder Josh Browder built an AI lawyer to fight corporations & governments, demos product features & how it helps consumers, shares insights on following in footsteps of his father Bill Browder, & future of consumer empowerment

"This week in startups brought to you by Lincoln a business is only as strong as its people and every higher matters go to linked thin dot com slash. Twist and get a fifty dollars credit towards your first job post Gusto is easy online payroll benefits and HR are built for modern small businesses. Get three months free. When you run your payroll at Gusto dot com slash twist and Savvier appier the easiest way to automate your work? It connects all your business software and handles the work for you so you can focus on the things that matter most right now all through February. Try Zap your free for fourteen days by going to Zap your dot com slash twit upcoming launch events apply for the next launch accelerator covert applications are due December twenty third learn more and apply at launch accelerator DOT Co.. Hey everybody welcome to this week in startups. I'm your host Jason Kansas and this is the podcast we talk about start ups that are trying to change the world. One of the big problems in the world is injustice and there's many levels of injustice one of them is the average citizen and how they interact with corporations how they interact with governments. And and how unfair and sometimes how opaque those relationships and transactions can be. My next guest is named Josh Broder and he is some kind of combination of activist and entrepreneur. He doesn't run a nonprofit he runs a for profit called. Do not pay dot com. Welcome to the program Josh. Thank you for having me. I described you as an activist and an entrepreneur. You are not running a nonprofit. This is a for profit off accompanied. Correct that's right but would you agree that you have a level of activism in your entrepreneurial efforts I think so by all entrepreneurs have ended editing at at the end of the day. Solve a big problem. That helps the walt. I'm very optimistic. I'm optimistic as well. Yeah it's hard to be optimistic right now. Because the world is so chaotic attic but overall you feel trending in the right way I hope so yes you hope Enfield yes. Yeah you read Steve. pinker spoke better engine did yeah he kind Kinda I mean I know some people have given it a hard time but it does feel directionally. Correct like the idea of being murdered or suffering injustice in the modern world is lower than it's ever been and inhumanity slower but there's lots of pockets of injustice with do not pay you started looking at some of the injustices we face on a daily basis. And I believe the first one you addressed was parking tickets explained that so I start driving at the age of eighteen and about maybe thirty tickets since I started driving and I was right obviously. Didn't have the money to pay these really expensive tickets. They're like hundred two hundred dollars a piece and so I had to figure out other ways to get the tickets dismissed and I learned something very interesting. which is that these tickets are not necessarily sally always issued because people do things wrong but sometimes to just make money for the government? I am shocked. You're telling me that governments will build their citizens citizens unjustly to hit their budget. I am in shock. Yes so as as a young person that I I was shocked as well and and I land that although they issue of these tickets they don't follow their own rules when giving them and so you can get out of your tickets very easily by writing these legal latter's and so so I spent about ten hours late in the night researching all of the obscure ways the parking tickets dismissed and I land. I could get my tickets dismissed and is this in the United States in London. This started in London. Got It and you. How many of the thirty tickets did you get dismiss? I got about fifteen dismissed fifty percent. Yes and what was the where the number one two and three reasons they do get dismissed as it for improperly filling out the form is it so the number one. The reason is the sign edge as a tree covering the sign or in San Francisco for example there are signs that say the exact opposite. Thank another reason. Is that the paint on the sign all of the issues. If they don't even tell you how to talk. How can you follow the rules right? The number two reason mistakes on the ticket and then the number three reason is that ah the Bach. The Parking Bay is physically impossible to actually pocket car. And because it's too small got it and in just by filling these out you can get the ticket dismissed roughly half the time that's right and did that apply in America as well. Yes so I was really successful helping my cell phone. My friends Galvao tickets and I realized sized I should create an APP that helps everyone worldwide. Get off that parking tickets and I just did this for fun on. I could never have imagined that three years later. I've been the business of fighting for people's rights. Let's and it seems trivial in a way like a parking ticket but it is a perfect example of government overreach. And it's a it's a small injustice but it's something we all feel consistently in governance governments need to be held in check if the police or the enforcement individuals are jumping the fence and acting inappropriately. Yeah in some places. Twenty percent of the budget comes from tickets and and that is not where the budget should come from. It's an incentive for them to be mischievous like this. Yes a cynic would say perhaps the signs are purposely convoluted or complicated unnecessarily to create. This Situation do you believe that. Or is that me me being a little bit to three days of the condor conspiracy theorist I would say that's definitely true As a business not necessarily foul signs but certainly misleading people and then also huge level incompetence. You can always count on the government to not follow their rules. So you you launch this APP when twenty sixteen or saying August twenty fifteen. Got It and a large number of people have used this as there are some public number you can share of the number of people people who used it or successfully gotten out of tickets running percentage. Yes we saved over twenty million dollars of fines. Why white by although that sounds impressive is just the drop in the water New York City every year has one billion dollars of parking ticket an opera ticket revenue and wonder what percentage of the budget comes from those ticket revenues? Yeah why would you got over. Three hundred thousand people do this successfully with your APP on other surfaces as other service. Yeah so you create the service for parking tickets and then one one would wonder What other things are purposely? Opaque an unfair and you must have made a list list and then created a roadmap for do not pay. What were the free four things that were the low hanging fruit that you went after later because now the services I think three dollars a month or something yes so do you sell a yearly or is it just only you can cancel anytime on it by the way only starts when you went okay so everybody can sign up for do not pay dot com right now? Get a subscription and it's free to check out and only once you've skews the product for something if you save fifty bucks or something then then I start paying. That's right which seems ultimate beyond reasonable. Yes you're like. Eat the steak if you enjoy it. Pay If you don't know need and we're happy because it's all soft last hour no Spending lots of money to operate the service you got about ten people working at the company couple million bucks. What was the second thing you added third? Then you added four thing you had to take me through the roadmap so in the product yes so I had a contact form on my website. Unfortunately people assume that because I can help with parking tickets awesome so of law. They didn't know my background background. That was just a dorm room hacker and they sent me will these ideas and ask for help with all sorts of things and so the second thing was helping people with landlord tenant disputes. The fat thing was helping with delight flights and then I just realized it's unlimited. Potential from there are now do not pay off as one hundred different things across five categories. Chris can you show me the product. I know we have a little demo. We could pull up the video and as we pull up the video. I see we have a little screen. Cast you have to remember. Most people are not are not watching. So let's start over the video neck in them so Sure said this is on most popular product. We call it the free trial credit caught and lots of people sign up for free trials on. I forget to cancel so we actually give people as you can see on. The screen of physical cod not tied to their bank account or identity that they can use any free trial it would just cancel for them And so people getting free net flex Hulu all sorts of great. Thanks so this for when I have this specific problem of the Wall Street Journal I cannot believe that our company with journalists integrity would allow you to by the The Wall Street Journal. And here it is in your one of your top ones their spot of hywel journeys and I think he. ESPN at spotify are are pretty ethical but the Wall Street Journal is not when it comes to their subscriptions you have to call them on the phone and it takes at least fifteen minutes. Yeah they'll take your money through a web form you know what they told me when I told them why. Can I give you money through your forums but not cancelled through your forms. They said what are they say security and I said. Do you understand how ridiculous that saving eighteen. You just had his. You'll take my money and my credit card which is dangerous to take a cry or not dangerous but that would be certainly more dangerous than saying stop charge my card. Yep and the woman. I don't make the rules sir. I'm sorry I don't mean to give you a hard time but you're telling me I get the fake burner a number and then instead of can just turn that number off. You don't even have to do. We do to mathematically and if we if it doesn't get time off whatever reason you'll Donovan responsible automatically I've set a time limit and say turn it off at this date. No I'll systems can detect when they're trying to charge. You just cuts it off so I can get the free free trial on that number. Try it and that it automatically cancels on the second charge or on the first charge. Whatever I set up it's not even a by a number of charges we know what's a free trial caught Charge on what's a real charge and it will counsel so by default cancels. Yes and if I want to keep it then I have to take the action of using my credit card and changing the website. It's it's often rather than opt-out which is how should be. Oh my God I just WanNa jump over the desk and just give you a hug we can give everyone here free subscriptions to do the people to be hacking this. It's not like do it every month and get net flicks so we limit people. It's about controlling finances. No helping throat right. Yeah and it says here that you'll also on the screen. I see a temporary email generator so you can also create a do not pay email email for me. Yes and give me a credit card number and at Ford your real name. Also if you don't use Your Really Mel protect your privacy does not it. Blocks will be tracking. That's a big trend these days and so you can protect your privacy annual finances so it's essentially like a burner identity. Yes which I love and we're actually moving even more in that direction with some new products coming out in the next few have a burner phone number. Aren't you not just that we have post office. Box Two maybe. Maybe I guess the robot you know because I'm into this cloak and dagger who's little bit famous like many famous and and like in the Internet industry and I'll tell you something crazy. I I mean people think this privacy thing it's not real. I signed up for service. I'M NOT GONNA say which one it is because I happen to know the founder and I've become friendly friendly with them and I like them and they've been on the podcast but early in the life of this company. I signed up for the company. They shared my name and my address with the vendors who they were reselling and one of those vendors emailed me and said. I'm a huge fan of your podcast. Thanks for buying a product and I said how do you know what your product can I ask. And they said Oh this company told us the distributor and I called a distributor and I went him. Yep Is that the right term millennial ham shoot. It's good. I think it's a good draw. Your millennial to is that the word millennial actually actually on the border I think is the right word. I went yard as a melon farmer on these Mellon farmers and has how dare you give my home address to somebody without my God. Damn you realize they could be a fishing account now some stock on my show up and I understand that the person's a fan of of mine. Yeah and they. They wanted to give me free product. That's the punchline so I I tried to be gracious about what the person who got my identity but my God people do crazy issue with your second millennial reference do you queasy ish and then I gotta go hand. Yeah well in Europe about psych completely illegal and you. You could actually see the person in our APP in Europe. There are the laws of praise. Right when we get back from this quick break. I want to see more the product and I WanNa know what your personal motivation is. Josh broader I WANNA know what makes you tick when we get back on this week in startups. Listen firing takes a lot of time and you're the founder it's GonNa fall on your plate and you know how much time it takes and that's time you may or may not have likely it's the ladder. You don't have the time so urgency is your enemy when it comes to finding the best candidates you don't want to make a mistake by Lincoln. Is the best place for you to post the job linked in job screens candidates with the hard and soft skills. You're looking for so you can hire the right person quickly. And over. Six hundred hundred million members visit Lincoln to make connections and discover new job opportunities in fact a higher is made every eight seconds on Lincoln and at launch. We've me too amazing. Hires off of Lincoln. Our Studio Director Sir Charles and of course our marketing maven manager Marion. They are doing a great job. Amazing Team members. And we're at hiring again. Here's crash he's doing my Associated Precious getting a job posting for a new position. He quickly selects the skills needed rights of description description adds additional screening questions my favorite and he sets the daily budget and his off on his way to finding a great candidate. All within a few minutes here is your call to action with Lincoln jobs. You pay what you want and the I fifty is on them. That's right a fifty coming to you right now at Lincoln Dot com slash twist. You will get fifty dollars five zero a great offer love when they give a cash offer. That's linked dot com slash. Twist to get fifty dollars off your first job post terms conditions of course apply because they're giving you a city all right. Let's get back to this amazing episode. Hi Josh Broder's with us. He is the founder of do not pay This is the greatest thing ever do not pay dot com three dollars a month and they they help people deal with. Let's face it corporate injustice. That's right it's corporate injustice and sometimes government injustice Yup and these folks are not accountable to government because in some cases they are the government in other cases the corporations own the government or they have such lobbying that people like the banks can open up fit multiple county in charge you for them and you never know you started those accounts. You remember that scandal. Yeah I was victim actually explain that scam and how they got caught and how that got stopped so Bank fees is about fifty to one hundred billion dollars a year more money is spent on overdraft fees than election spending combined in this country and and so the more accounts you have opened the more fees they can charge you and so when I was coming to the US from the UK. Hey I went to a wealth fog branch and they said Oh you need a savings account you need a checking account. You need a brokerage account all of these accounts every single one incurring occurring fees. I just want to buy coffee. STARBUCKS IDA need three accounts. There's a checking yes. Give Me Goddamn checking account when you transfer between the checking in the savings and they have these automated due to transfers the supposedly protect you they charge fees and so I probably racked up like six hundred dollars in fees just from Iceland's college life. Yeah and they're doing this to the poorest. Most unsophisticated people. That is the chew injustice because once you get money. Do you know what these bank studio. Yeah they lower your fees and they take them away way you what happens when Jason Kansas in two thousand nineteen calls a bank and says fix this you know what they do they fix. Yeah and you know what happened when I was twenty nine years old and I called them they did they put me on hold. That's right. Yeah that's what they did so the more money and power you get the more or likely they are to treat you with respect and it doesn't matter if I get hit with the banking fee but it did matter to me when I was nineteen or twenty nine like you were in college and that six hundred dollars was your vacation or tuition or books or tutoring ordering yeah boxers. Yeah boxers look at this traffic disputes. Let's hit the play button here. Describe what we're all seeing so this is how at she it gets you out of your tickets. It's a robot talks to ask you questions. Buy A ticket. And then generates the latter got it so it s q questions whether signs hot to read was talking by two small and it really goes in detail. It plays a game twenty questions to find a specific statute applies geotech. Now when you create something like this and you save save this amount of money. Yes I'm going to guess that some bureaucrat. Not pleased with you or are they so incompetent that they don't even care yet. Yes yes well yes about yes to buy. So they all signed out for the savage suite with tracking it got it and some of them really hate us but some of them actually annette when it launched an ally for example NPR asked Los Angeles. Los Angeles is parking ticket bureau. What I thought of do not pay and they said we achy? He kind of like it because at least when the pills come from do not pay is in a standardized format people right-sized gibberish on that parking ticket pills at least when it comes from them like we can quickly aclu determined whether it's a legitimate defense. Not Fantastic yeah. Do you have to upload a picture of the block ticket is that helpful yes yes and we have software that can find the jurisdiction from the ticket and save from Oscar de lots of questions So you know Santa Monica versus Santa Cruz. That's right. Yeah and they might be very different. Yes so you're going normalizing and creating the twenty questions Chat Bot intelligently. Yeah and this is the prophet problem for software because all of this information is public. All previous cases is freedom of information. Act Public all of the information. About how this How'd you get out of a ticket legally not by committing fraud or lying but to actually legitimate get out of it? All of that is available by Pfoa. That three of them of Information Act here. In the United States and in the Yukon activists have already made these requests are available online. Wow Fo is a powerful thing it really is this. I mean a lot of the information we're getting about Mueller. And a lot of these things is because these journalists are filing foia requests freedom. Him of Information Act. The government's data is data. And unless it's giving up some security concern methods or something we deserve it. We should get it all right. Let's keep going through this little demo here again remember. Describe what we're seeing so you mentioned Waiting on hold when you're twenty nine so we have a product. skit waiting the on. Hold the whites on hold for you. Oh my Lord during the cool if you bob way or For example that being on fat you can tap press court and That notifies them to there being recorded and then you can shatter according with do not pay uses all my Lord can I I hit pause on this podcast. Sign up for this. I mean literally said this can record your call. Yeah you know but isn't is it. Recording calls not legal in California. Or you disclaim. It's no secret it's fried clams and cheeks moil castle. Oh you say at the call. I'm require robot. Robot says at once you press the button which is what they do anyway exactly says given the payback. You're giving the power back. Yeah look at. You look what you're doing this. You know what I I mean. The term micro aggression is silly most of the time time but these are systematic microaggressions by the world. Against the poorest people. The most vulnerable people. And your unscrewing. Those and you know what these things Kinda add up. I know the micro aggression thing was easy to make fun of what I'm talking about like the Social Justice Mike Right. It's pretty easy to make fun of like when people you know use the word. And they all their some micro aggression and here it actually turns out that if you put people under like hundreds of micro aggressions it could actually build up to be anxiety. He producing for people. Yeah six hundred producing to wait on hold like this. I mean do it on purpose. Don't they yeah and then they keep redirecting you and then you on hold again and the same. Yeah and eat the fate and here. You say there's the Comcast Ryan Block call where he asked like twenty times. I am block is one of my dear friend on the board of his company. You know him yeah. We also have permission. tink thank fulfull. Sausage permission and Brian Block was trying to cancel comcast and you got on the phone with them. And he recorded he told him as recording it and then he released it he the editor I mean gadget with with Peter Rojas they were co editors. I hired him for that job. Peter whom I gave permission to him and now he's in the word and that phone call is bonkers. It's ridiculous and it's true is is not like a one case everyone has this. Has these experiences all right here. I'm going to call an audible Cut into this podcast at the end of the podcast. Replay the Ryan Block call. We'll just put it at the end just for the sake of everybody. Listen listen to this call. He basically just tries over and over. Cancel my account. Then as I ask you why I want my account cancelled. I'm recording this call. Aw please cancel my cat and she refuses to do it. Why would that frontline worker refuse to cancel and colleague that your mind? I think that it's a business strategy. Rathi to Get as much revenue as possible because they dive a product that is valuable for people right. And they're this I think my understanding they give spinoffs little bonuses for the saves. Yep so they're probably not policing how people get the saves but they're basically using the save as a way to motivate those frontline employer employees so the frontline employees says. Let me put you on. Hold and torture manager. They can look at the manager and say don't pick up for two minutes if they dropped the call if they dropped the call we get twenty bucks each yet for saving yet fry terrible. They have teams of people brainstorming. How to rip off the consumer and the average person has no one right so you can skip waiting on hold now? What are we seeing here at documents? It's so this is new product coming out. I know your life so your life. US can guess sneak peak. But what this does is it shows you all of the warnings and loopholes halls with your consumer contracts you talking about the terms of service we all skip. That's the biggest lie on the Internet. That people read the tons of Savvas. Yes there was a South Park episode about skipping the terms of service will put a link in the show notes to that. Yes we're basically at. Yeah one of the one of the kids who doesn't do. The terms of service ended allows apple to do something horrible to them that I cannot say on the podcast is it would get at US band so here we go to warnings. twenty-three loopholes chased united explorer. This card contains a force arbitration clause. Which prohibits you from suing the company company in Federal State? Court do not pay. We'll help you opt out so you can actually opt out of that by law you have to. And they can't discriminate. Just because you bought it out but I didn't know that to opt-out you have to send a registered model latter and you can do that straight from the APP just by pressing results if we all used do not pay dot com. Yeah we can send such a united message to these scumbags who are. I said that now you these are great. Okay you would say to these scumbags who are trying to screw us over every chance they get for no reason yeah. I'm very proud of the companies. I invest in because they're so customer centric this new generation companies that they don't WanNa play these Games James. If you're unhappy North. They think that's a chance at a save. That's a chance at making you a believer in our product so if you want to cancel com dot com Tom or you have a problem with your Uber leads. Like I guarantee you use you tell bridge you had a problem. I told him ice cream mounted was they just gave me ten bucks. They don't want to deal with argue with you over this. They want you happy. They don't want you're GONNA post mates impose may says I want you to grab hub. GRANDPA probably doesn't care about you. But that's because of the old school offense the Grub people but that APP is terrible I've had a horrible experience. Grub what do you think about the modern crop of companies. I I hate this company called facebook. This company is terrible. I think so too for humanity when we get back from this quick break. How do we deal with the horrible horrible company that has infected democracy and humanity in the United States facebook? What are your ideas for taming that beast? That horrible hacker that bad actor in America we get back on this weekend star upsets workshop. If if you're a small business owner you wear a lot of hats. You gotTA do your taxes. You got to set up computers. You gotta do your payroll. There's so much on your plate that's why you need Gusto. Gusto is an amazing service that we use ourselves and it helps you do payroll taxes and HR super easily with fast asked and simple payroll processing all the benefits that your employees and your team members want plus expert HR support all in one simple location automatically pays and files federal state and local taxes. And it's easy to health benefits and 401K's and all that great stuff three out of four customers take ten minutes or less to run their payroll with Gusto. It's that easy we love and use it. It's quick easy on boarding new employees is second to none. It's persistent and helpful communication but never annoying you log into the intranet extra net whatever you call it and it just works just great software. They've been working working at this for years over there and have great customer service over chat or phone. I prefer chat. You might prefer the phone. I don't know that may be an okay boomer thing but I think I'm part of the millennials selenium who likes During the chat. And you get everything in one place if you WanNa do the five twenty nine for people's College or HSA 401K Dental Vision. How all that stuff? Even the commuter we do the computer because people have that so. It's the best time right now to get set up in two thousand nine hundred twenty. Don't wait start your next decade with Gusto and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's right three months free when you run your payroll. That's a great deal so try a free demo and see for yourself at Gusto G. U. S. Tayo Dot com slash twist that's gusto dot com slash twist. Okay let's get back as missing episode all right. My new best. Josh Broder is here. He's Jay Broder one on the twitter. CEO founder of do not pay dot com. I am commanding you. If you're my audience to download the APP right now if you hear my voice voice you download the APP. Do not pay. Stop what you're doing. Pause the podcast go to the APP store type and do not pay together. We can stop the scumbags from stealing our money and screwing growing us. Thank you for doing this. I think is a huge opportunity. You See this thing here entrepreneur Andrew. Doing the right thing. He's not mutually exclusive. I completely agree. I'm very low. I feel I have the best job in the world. Think about this people complain about capitalism oh capitalism it's off off the rails. All people get too rich for every for every moment where capitalism gets to overreaching there becomes an opportunity tune in to reign it back in. Yes so if verizon my verizon bill two hundred a month they're making me bonkers. I can't figure out my bell. I tried to change my bill verizon. They give me a hard time. I try to go to the store. Nobody can help me and then google fiber comes out. Have you seen Google Fi. Have you have you seen a not seen it. Yeah they let you go to a website and pause your service with one click. Stop paying me. They tell you every time you're over on the data they you international no surprises no nonsense. Yeah and then. I want new data Sims Google if I had to do a Google fi commercial here. But it's an example of verizon abuser customers so google fi realize assertion opportunity and don't email me verizon executives about this I got receipts. Okay Gossiping Killing me on these bells and unnecessary. I love Reisen. But I'm leaving verizon because they've treated me so poorly you can order an extra data sim from Google Fi. Put it into any device and it goes on your master data plan so I ordered two or three of these. I put them on my daughter's IPADS I put him on my ipads whatever and everybody's on my data plan so if we happen to be out of range and they want to watch some youtube video you two kids or something. I their ipads work online now. Did that with verizon. They'd murder me. I don't trust verizon. Yep there's nothing they can do. Because if they change their ways they'll have half the revenue and then everyone will get fired would they could do. Is They could start listening to the customers and build additional services and provide additional value that lets them compress the price a little bit but this is the perfection of capitalism capitalism for every time a company it's fat and has too much margin. Your margin is the other entrepreneurs opportunity. Yep what what about facebook. This company is horrible. I tried to delete stuff off. FACEBOOK IT takes forever. How do we stop facebook? Do you have any product ideas or anything being in the market yet. What are you brainstorm about facebook? So one top. You can change all of your privacy. Settings and delay will the data that facebook has about year. Because they let you do it. It's like takes thirty minutes to do it as a type. Two seconds quite literally I could take off a seven sixty seven dreamliner diner with that stupid software that crashes the plane. I could take off one of those planes successfully quicker than deleting date on facebook. Yes the command center. Her looks like a cockpit and youth graduate in one. Click yet. But it's a great tool for box they can just do all the clicking for you and we've already built these boats for other things is. Is it a chrome extension. That does it or an APP in the APP. Apple Have Technology Webcam view. And you can just yeah. Fire up the browser the APP. You don't even see the browser you don't even see. Does it in the background. So Johnny secure because it's all on your device amazing. Yeah all right. She got the free trial credit card yet. So I can't get screwed. I have to opt in. I'm using that customer service disputes. I don't have too many but yeah yeah CR- You know getting tickets. I get some usually for speeding. But I- speed regulator on my Tesla. So that I don't get this anymore. You can't get help me with speeding tickets because I'm dead to rights on those as true but I'm white guys. I kind of get out of half of them by default pretty crazy I wish they let me off. They let your the Golden Gate Bridge. You were speeding on the golden gate bridge now. I just sound West. The Golden Gate Bridge I'm visiting from the UK because they don't bother writing because they know you don't have to pay it. Yeah yeah a genius. That's great hack. I do have to pay it but they let me off. I'm going to start that. Yeah I did. I'm literally been trying to find the Golden Gate Bridge. That's exactly right. Can you point to the rich. No sorry this is the bay bridge. I was squandering because I in the photo. The Golden Gate Bridge was read. This bridge is gray. I thought maybe the painters fade. How's that and then they lie? I'm done enough of that accent. Sent an awful go get yourself some mushy peas and on your way yeah enough nonsense. I like the mushy. AP's as delicious. Jim have them with a little Minton. Them that's the best thinking. How come we don't have this year? The mushy peas now. That's like mashed potatoes but delicious healthier and healthier their mashed potatoes. And you put a little Minton. There you've got a place in San Francisco Bay or what's the best place for me to get some bangers and Mash so bushy peas does is I bring opening up in the US now South Africa restaurant but it's UK South African Ando's Yes delicious Fried Chicken chicken but mushy peas is. Well I love this. Yeah I I like that. I like the bankers. Those just like sausages the the Mash Oh dillashaw dullish Massey. Now I'm starting to think about okay hidden money discovery. Take me this. What is this hidden money so lots altuva users come to do not pie with problem but what we say is there are some fees that you don't even know about so analyzes your accounts and says you can get these bank doc fees back? Even if you didn't know existed so I can authenticate with Bank of America Wells Fargo. Yes and then you tell me that they're overcharging and write a letter. Yes yes and do you send a postal mess letter. We do yeah. Old Will sometimes via secure message center with these bots. And if you send the print ladder does not cost you a buck to do that. And Yeah it's a three dollar subscription so we're not making money we just want to have an amazing product. Okay now I had read that you were. Were doing something for immigration. which is an acute problem? Yeah because if you're an immigrant these poor immigrant's sometimes they don't know the native language they're super vulnerable and they're coming from countries. Where if they get sent back they might be destined to to die? Week turned back Holocaust survivors to their certain death in America and Canada to our great shame. Yeah and we're doing it. Now we're sending people back to certain death or torture. You're actually GONNA try to solve this problem so this was actually before I started. Do not pay. I'm a big big legal technology. Not so anything that can help. Legal Tack I'm really interested and see through this part because this seems like for you could be your legacy easy if you could save just one immigrant from going back to certain death in these horrible dictatorships my goodness just because they can't fill out the paperwork. Yeah it costs hundreds hundreds of thousands of dollars to fill out to apply for asylum aid which is like eight that you get with getting asylum and so we had automated that paperwork so same thing with the Chat Bot that you do yeah for a parking ticket like is the tree bloc to say a danger of being harmed are you endangered simple. Doesn't say that it says does the convention apply to. You will some legal Latin. Tom And you just make it simplified. Yeah are you in danger if you go back home and it's like yeah. I'm going back to a dictatorship that had just escaped from illegally. They're going to put me in jail. He just say the word yes yeah fills out the form and it sounds in Arabic as well so the bought was actually in Arabic. An filled out the film in English. See this is a great idea. We talk about people fleeing and some of those states that may in fact have state sponsored terrorism Yup. The people fleeing genius like are the people who are likely not supporting that. They're leaving because they don't want to be in place. That is a dictatorship with state-sponsored terrorism. So every person person who leaves those places who's good is one less person in that place who could be indoctrinated to something horrible. That's right yeah. This is the stupidity of our immigration process. Yes we we say. Oh this is a s whole country. Trump says. We can't take people from there well. What if that person's the next Sergei Brin where if that person's Elon Musk? Musk what that person's in Ness Satya Tao who picks somebody who left a country that maybe isn't a great country to be born in but who really actually wants to do something for this country. I mean it's crazy this policy. I mean it doesn't mean you can have open borders because that will lead to chaos as well. Oh what's your stance on that. How do you how? What's the proper immigration methodology in your mind? Having studied this quotas point systems. I think that this Laws and Pete the laws. Good sometimes but there's so much offficial complexity has no reason. Anyone should be filling in Latin form. Folks I think the whole system should be just be made simpler so that the loss type place you shouldn't have to spend thousands of dollars to exercise your rights. That's that's the problem. Is that yeah. I would a lawyer be necessary to fill out a form. That's right a form that we created a form so you don't need a barrister to do this. Yeah Yeah if you're suing somebody for stealing from you. Maybe you need to hire a lawyer but for anything else a parking ticket or your refugee just this a forum in the form is meant for you to fill out. Yeah this is too hard all right when we get back from this break the last break we go into coming around third base and we have real talk okay. I found out at the beginning. There's pockets I recognized her last name. Browder have you ever read the book. Red Notice one of my favorite books probably top three books last decade. Is this incredible book about the guy who created the Magnitsky Act to protect people from these incredible oligarchs horrible rocks whose behavior is in suffer -able where they torture people commit crimes globally and it turns out the author of this book is Bill Broder and Bill Browder is. Oh that's my father is your father. I didn't know that when we booked you as a guest. We just had read about you. Your Dad's actually bill browder one of my my heroes mine too. When we get back I want to talk about how Great Your Dad is and what that experience was if you're open to talking about because this is a podcast about you but are you open to talking about show when when we get back? Let's Talk About Your Dad. WHO's hero of mine all right? We're back at it with our ZAP of the week. Here's Associated Press Building an automation for our open office hours events. Fresh automates all registrations. From our type form into our autopilot account which sends an and on a text message saying we've received their applications so you apply you get a text message. How cool is that people are like? Wow they are really on their Arish at this week in startups launch company after that he sets up an automated calendar invite so they will see the event on their calendar right against saving Step and making our organization look like we're on top of it with just these zaps we're able to increase our turn out twenty percent. What could you do with Zap doc by you can do many things? I am so addicted to the service and I have been for years. You instantly engage with leads and turn them into a crm Aram or a spreadsheet you integrate with over fifteen hundred business application. I'm talking about everything. Google Docs Maybe Era Table Slack. Whatever you're using ZAP here is the easiest way automate your work? Just go to snappier dot com slash twist connect the APPS. You WanNA use most and leads Zafeer take it from there. Join more than four point. Five million people were saving an average of forty hours a month using Zappia. That's what this is about. The people save time save money do more and be a great organization right now through February. You can zap here for free by going to our special link Z.. A. P. E. R. dot com slash. Twist that's Zappia DOT com slash. Twist for your free fourteen day. Trials Appier Z. A.. API E R DOT com slash twit. It is indispensable if you're building a business. You don't have to hire some crazy developer. WHO's GONNA charge a three or four hundred dollars an hour and then disappear appear for two months when they go to and you can't find them you just do zap here and you'd be independent? Do It yourself okay. Does that makes you happier. Let's get back to this amazing pockets. All Right Josh Broder's on the program my genius producers didn't put in the notes that your dad is bill. Browder they do a great job breaking chops but I Raise Your Dad's book because my friend Chris Sacca I was rallying about how horrible Putin is and how the fact that our country is closing up to. This person is one of the most dangerous things we could do getting a snake pit without individual and my franker Sokha said. You don't know the half of what's going on. In Russia read read notice and a red notice is when somebody is internationally on the Lam. A criminal has escaped gaped. They release a red notice and Interpol says arrest. This person and Putin has the ability to do this. And he's done it. I think dozens of times with your father yet does right. Your father was correct. Me If I'm wrong. A Private Equity Hedge Fund Guy Investor like me he invested. He was one of the first people to go to Russia in investing companies. His lawyer Magnitsky was a Russian lawyer who was murdered in prison. Listen as part of a corruption scandal. Where your dad was investing over there? That's right and your dad's been had a red notice sent on him. How many many times I think twelve times now? Twelve Times in the most recent was in Spain. I believe last year. Yeah not happening. Yeah I was US Jeanette Stanford and I call saying. He's been arrested in span in Spain. Yeah for nothing. Yeah and your Dad had bought these incredible incredible assets and done this incredible investing in Russia. which was supposed to be moving towards democracy and these crazy oligarchs went to the corrupt judges and to the corporate offices of the government and change the ownership of companies out of your Dad's name into other people's names and there was no recourse and your dad himself got held in Moscow for a couple of days pretty. He's scary for your dad. You remember that time. I don't know how old you are but that was in the nineties. Yeah I remember at all and It was just fry stressful time. What was it like hearing that? Your Dad was in jail in Moscow. And you're in London and you may never see him again well He wasn't held for that long. I think They put him on the next flight out. They deported bolted him. Rothen hold up. Yeah yeah that was part of the book that was a little dicey when they put them in a room and took all his stuff away from him. Yep and then he's had to live with this low grade fear that the Russians could come and kill him at any time. Yeah knows they're crazy. Yeah what's that like to live with as a child. That's gotTa be you fully aware of that at the age of ten or twelve or fifteen yet. He was very good explaining everything to me. And I think for me it just puts everything in perspective. There are lots of times in life when people are out to get you or whatever but nothing compared to having the Russian mafia out feel family. And so I'm not really faced by anything anymore DOC. It it's yeah yeah it's in a way it's a gift for you to understand how fragile life is and to understand how I right. Things can go very bad in the world so you appreciate life. I think to a level that most people your age on. How old are you? Twenty two as a twenty two year old. I don't think most people appreciate life to the level you do because you understand how fragile it is yes and you understand how vulnerable we all are which also understand that democracy works. Yep what what does your what do you and your father. You see our president cozy up to the most sinister person on the planet. Second second perhaps only to Kim Jong UN in terms of danger to the planet especially my blowing for you and your dad. Yeah Yeah I mean. The the most scary time was when they trump and Putin had the Helsinki Summit and Putin said sorry trump said Moulin needs it's these Russian gre you agents and Putin Saj Alcoa in exchange for these agents. We want twelve. US sins including bill browder and trump said. That's a great idea. Yeah and so that a president assessed I solve things is fire warring literally. If Your Dad was here he would turn them over in a heartbeat just to appease Putin yeah well luckily we have rule of law says not to even the president to do that. Your warped mind. He thinks that he should have the right to take American citizens or American Nationals or people living here with proper visas he he didn't trump had no problem because shoghi being murdered by the Saudis apparently he didn't even believe the CIA or any of our intelligence services that Kashogi was brutally totally murdered for the most Banal of light criticisms of NBA S. And this is the guy he's dancing with with swords in Saudi Arabia and planning for the future Kushner. I mean we have crossed the Rubicon. I mean we have lost the script. If the greatest S. Tomography in the world is appeasing the worst human beings on the planet that same. I hopefully only get BETTA. I'm hoping he you watch this Ukraine scandal. That's going on and you look at what. What is the motivation here? The motivation all seems to go back to Putin and the Russians and the Putin is the richest man on the planet. Apparently that's right. Yeah could be worth two hundred and fifty billion dollars. basothos plus Bill Gates does not even equal Putin's wealth and we don't even know where that money is. Yeah nobody knows where it is and what people don't realize about our country and how dangerous is they don't actually have. They actually are struggling economically with all those nuclear weapons and the army and everything and they're struggling this very bad place. Nice to be yonkers. Yeah well listen you. Dad's a hero to me and I guess he's a hero to youtube clearly and so so it it to me is no surprise that you are so focused on justice and it might seem trivial at times like to get out of you know a ticket but that's not all you're doing here you're actually on a mission to do something super important and you're charging such a small amount of money. I think you need to really reconsider this less us. Pay You To do this and Here's a tweet from you. Companies aren't equipped to deal with flood of requests once the CCPA comes into effect. What is the CCPA? This is tweet. Upjohn Nick this is the California Sonja Consumer Privacy Act going into and into effect January first twenty twenty and it basically allows consumers to ask companies to delete all that data to US what data. You're there holding on a person and so on some of these companies. Don't even know how much to their holding on people. And so when they get these requests and if they don't comply they're subject to find all of this they're going to be inundated and so we're actually walking to send aloft. These requests come next year. I would like to with the first for facebook. Maybe the I definitely I would. I would consider it an honor to be the first to send this request to facebook. Because you know if you're able to build a service with billions of units globally and you put one point zero one percent of your effort until letting them letting your consumers Sumer leave. What more example do we need about? A person's moral and ethical compass that Zuckerberg will do anything anything to get you on the service and create even more roadblocks to let you off of it. Yeah and if you think about the easiest easiest way Zuckerberg could get him out of the south out of the crosshairs of the Government Regulation would-be when you log into facebook to say pay five dollars a month ten dollars a month whatever. He chooses thirteen dollars a month. Twelve ninety five to have none of your information tractors he no advertising. They could launch that tomorrow yet. They don't which tells you everything you need to know about facebook and that's exactly what we do not pay you just charge people three three dollars a month does now. We don't even know your your data. Is We keep it our exact. It's on your phone. Yeah your choice just like yeah I mean this is the tip of of the spear. I think what you're doing. What apple is doing the tip of the spirit to move the entire industry from collect everything and figure out how to leverage shit later to collect nothing and let people just pay a modest fee yup having a direct relationship yeah cosmos? What's what's the point of in the Google by fit which is my favorite thing in the world of added for ten years younger all my data in there? I mean if Google buys fitbit do they get all my data. Did they track my weight and track my steps and start giving me advertising based on how much how well I slept last night. That's not that's something. I don't want what I don't want fifth having giving their my data to Google for everything about that with acquisitions Yeah no it's it's terrible and house documents Ghana will warn you about those sorts of things as well. Yeah do you keep track of all those terms of services indefinitely and how they changed like the Deltas is on it yes so this hasn't launched chiappa. We're definitely going to do that. See this to me. Seems something that somebody needs to do to just keep these companies in check. I would like to to pay you for this product independent of using it. You should give people the right to to pay you on a yearly basis. Yeah thirty bucks. Just let me pay you every year so that I can support the mission so when you have that subscribe and you only use it if you use it. Yeah just let me say I. I'd like to survive. I would like to do it anyway. or I'd like to donate to the cause because I would actually like to have you specifically out there. Yep Monitoring these just to keep them in check and just to do a blog post you should this we the problem of just do a blog post every month about what changed yes. Just what changed changed. Why that would scare the Jesus out of them could? Does anybody even do that now. That's all a great idea. Now now does this emmy yeah. Nobody's nobody's these. Companies have too much power and their behavior in many cases not all but in some cases some of the most powerful are not even sharing in what they're doing in like some companies are just so on it like somebody tweeted at Ilan. What's the camera inside the? What's the camera inside the the cockpit of the model three four and he said well that's for when you're in dog mode and other things and some somebody tweeted it and I sent entity Yulon and I said You should address this one and he immediately replied about that camera that he was going to Put into the settings headings you could turn it off and he actually did while and you put a tape on it if you want to. But when you're in century mode you WANNA know if somebody breaks into your car. Yeah and that's the way. CEO Should we think about when they called out on something or a consumer has a question they just address it. If you had that quickly put a software update. They didn't and then Zuckerberg does the opposite. What does it tell you about? The two individuals one is operating at the highest ethical moral status I have listened to the customers and addressing it quickly and the other one is going to testify before governments if they drag them in with a subpoena and then lie. Yup soccer lies when he's there. I can't believe that people let him get away with lying to government agencies like you know we. We don't really monitor ads. It's like Except for the dating companies that I've invested in that you block from advertising because you see them as a threat yet so you can block think about. This is an injustice. They'll block ads. Have too much text on the image because they don't like the aesthetics of it though block ads from potential competitors editors like dating sites but the let Russians by Anti Hillary Racist ads with rubles. It's an interesting while we live in bonkers. I listen Josh. Browder browder furniture in red. Yes browder not bro. Browder as we wrap up here. What's the long-term vision? So right now do not as a single player experience you can get all these tools they save you money they help you fight back. But what's interesting is when we have five million ten million subscribers that gives us leverage trashy negotiate with the corporations on your behalf like a union almost how so we can say tecom cost tree five million customers better give us give them discounts a wall. Switch them to verizon venite will google five ny and inspire me with legal requests amazing. Don't use the word spam just flood flat flood goosebumps. Got a young will fledge you with these requests. Yeah and they will listen and tree love people bats. It'll be a force for good. I think it could be a force for good in less than three dollars a month. Ten million people you know. You'll have a unicorn on your hands coupled worth a couple of billion you're only gonNA need fifty people to run this company. Yes software so software amazing. Thank you for coming on the PODCAST. If you hear my voice choice it is your moral obligation to download. Do not pay. This is certainly being that. I wish you great success. Thank you for what you're doing. Can We have your dad on the podcast and asking Komo anything's view was I'm sure he's very proud. Hopefully we'll have to say I'm certainly is. We'll see you all next time on this week in startups here is Ryan blocks call with comcast referenced earlier in the episode. Don't and we'll okay. We we like to relate to the snowflakes. Why don't want the faster speed? Help me understand why you don't walk accurate actress. homey understand what you can't just disconnect US thank the conversation with you about having about keeping your service why it is that you're looking at Camp Sanjay one can definitely contact before and service their commit to your Jeep Carta. We're actually mailed cable carden but if you can just please cancel service service. That'd be great. That's an acute park nail then I will send it someone like a task rabbit to return the cable car for. Let's I don't personally intend to cable car. That's why would probably not GONNA be canceling in store. So that's why I need you to cancel by phone. So can you cancel us down. The answer is yes crack. Thank you don't want to go over that information. Thank easiest way to get your disconnect. I am declining estate. Why we are leaving comcast? Because I don't own explanation so if you can use just proceed to the next question if you have to fill out your form that's fine. Please please proceed putting experts in will attempt to answer that if possible being the number one provider of Internet anti-turkish in the entire country why not wanting to have the number one rated number one rated. GD Service available declining to states were switching providers riders. Can you please go to the next question. What did you just make them declining mistake? Can you please go to next question so we can cancel our service. Oh okay I mean trying to figure out what it is about comcast service that. You're not like you. This phone call is a really actually amazing representative example of. Why don't WanNa stay with comcast so can you please can't tell us they're trying to help you? One way you can help me do it all this. The will be disconnecting service. That's how you because that's what I want what I want. Why is that what you want? Because that's what I want. Okay so I mean there have come to the reason behind it. We just want to find out what it is this coming customer Mer. That's been with us for a long time to leave. Because that's what we want. I mean you've been with us since two thousand five nine years you've after after a decade okay clearly services working great for you having any problems so now all of spend your moving served in multiple address all of a sudden. You're moving speaking. You want to change. What if it's making you want to change that because that's what we WANNA do? So why is that what you WANNA do. That's none of your business. Your Business is a company that is that is a Internet provider primarily darkest you know why are customer driven. Okay if we don't know why are you leaving power. We spoke to make it a better experience for you next time. Wow that's a fantastic question and something that you can hire a firm go figure out for right now. I'm just a customer calling in attempting to disconnect service. That is something the intrigues you. Right you said that. You can't disconnect service. Yes the translator service address. Can you disconnect thus by phone. Can you just going to curb US yes or no. I'm trying to find out it's Jonathan anyone. Why don't you because I'm not interested in your services any longer not interested? Can you disconnect us by phone. Are you capable in your system of disconnecting our service. Yes or no the question. Are you capable by phone of disconnect disconnect. Okay anything that's something you can do. I would appreciate you doing that. These Chrissy in disconnecting service. What what ended about Internet provider the provider? That's that's better than the number one. TV service available. It's totally arbitrary decision. Why not don't works was good because we're not doing that so please proceed I I guess I don't want something that works walk I mean? Is this a joke you. You are refunding on trying to get information on trying to help our company. That's that's fine job. I guarantee van credibly good job at helping your company worse that that it feels like a from down Q.. Like feels like I'm trying to argue onto trying to help you get swift formation. We'll just by basalt formation all go ahead and disconnected service. Okay you were of that winds up being we call you back. I mean you're not gonNA get two hundred thousand three on demand. Titles you're not GonNa get hundred five megabits per second for your Internet guaranteed speed at one hundred five. Okay I mean no one else can give either speed like again. Okay so I mean we can definitely transfers over to address to get you a lower rate. I could say almost one hundred the more than one hundred dollars per one hundred dollars per month he would that transfer Internet that five six times. Good anything any other property pride you done number one TV service available okay and I mean so what what does not. Why are you gonNa make you you literally? Just a moment ago said that you would go ahead and disconnect our service and we're we're going to we're going to need to do so can you go ahead and on I'm okay. How much longer is the process? Can you tell me how. How much longer can you tell me? How much gets Hannah take got under stand? How much can can you tell me thinking? Okay so what I mean is it the company. Don't WanNa change what about I'm I'm just GonNa wait until you can confirm that we've canceled service so I'm just going to hang it began. I like to thank you very much for being part of comcast number wonderful day. Can you give me a confirmation number for the cancellation service. I don't have a confirmation number one. HOW DO I? How do I have confirmation that? We've also final statements. Thank you very much for being a great partner. And just so I can confirm you said that Your name is okay thank you.

United States facebook Josh Broder Putin Saj Alcoa Gusto Google Bill Browder founder ZAP America apple verizon Lincoln London Golden Gate Bridge Jason Kansas youtube Gusto dot UK Galvao
The Mueller Report Preview

Stay Tuned with Preet

17:29 min | 1 year ago

The Mueller Report Preview

"Hey, stay tuned listeners. I was pleased to learn last week that stay tuned has been nominated for a webby award for the best individual episodes of podcast. The selection is for an interview I did last year with Bill Browder as many of you know, Browder became the driving force behind the Magnitsky act and is often described as Putin's number one foe. So if you haven't already check out the episode and Castro vote at webby awards dot com. You can also find the link to vote in the show notes to this episode. Hey, folks today is a big day as all of you probably know the DOJ's releasing the redacted Muller report. So we're going to do things a little differently this week instead of a regular stay tuned episode. We're putting together a special edition all about the Muller report. I'll be spending the day reading digesting it the plan is to post the episode later tonight or tomorrow morning at the latest joining me will be my friend who's familiar to you, former New Jersey attorney general and milligram. My co host of the cafe insider podcast. We will do a version of what we do every Monday on the insider pod make sense of the week's biggest news, which this week is the mother report. So please keep an eye out on your stay tuned feet, or will Email you a link to the episode if you haven't already had to cafe dot com slash Prete. There you can sign up to receive link to the episode as well as the cafe brief our newly launched free newsletter Fridays. Additional recap all the mother coverage and analysis. That's cafe dot com slash Prete for now. I'll talk a little bit about what we might expect. And what will be looking for in the report? So here's some questions from you guys about the mullahs report. This one is one of my favorites from Twitter user, tongue of would I said that with a straight face at pre Perera was the hashtag Mullah report released a chosen to avoid. Stay tuned. Hashtag Asprey it. You know, probably. Yes. As as you know is a loyal listener the world does revolve around. Stay tuned. You know, literally as we were discussing amongst ourselves that the worst day for big news is Thursday morning because that's the Tate at the usual episode comes out, and we do a lot of prep for it. And a lot of thinking about it. And I do a lot of taping on Tuesday and Wednesday of the week, but we have resorted to countermeasures. And so today as I said quick preview, and we will be back in the studio on Thursday. Evening after both and Milliman. I rather than resort to hot takes. We'll have read all of the report. I hope all the report might have to read quickly depending on how much redaction there is. And being a position to hopefully, be thoughtful about what was said in. You'll hear that episode later. Here's another fun question Twitter user truth addict, seventy six asks, hyper are what are you doing mothers eve? That's a great question. I'm taping. This as per usual on Wednesday morning, April seventeenth and tonight. I'll be heading to DC to be in place at a desk on Thursday morning. Bright early to read the actual mull report and one of the things I'll probably be doing tonight. In addition to carbo loading for the marathon of tomorrow is thinking about what I would be looking for in the Miller report and thinking about the kinds of questions, I'll be asking myself as I read through the report reminding myself of some of the history of the investigation. Thinking a little bit about the Bill bar for page summary, and how might compare the mullahs report into generally getting a good night's rest before launching into a lengthy reading session. And hopefully be able to say something thoughtful and not stupid about the issues raised in the mullahs report tomorrow. And so here's a non exhaustive list of kinds of things I'll be looking for and thinking about with respect to the Muller report. Obviously one question is to whom did Bob mother intend to punt the question on obstruction. Was he silent about it? Did he hint that he wanted congress to deal with it, which has been my suspicion? Or did he leave it open for Bill bar to grab the ball and make his pronouncement about obstruction? Obviously, another incredibly important issue is how close a question was the obstruction. Call obviously, I've been predicting for some period of time that they're likely be a substantial discussion of facts and details and conversations, and perhaps even documents that suggest strongly that the president of the United States looked like he had the intent to obstruct the Russia investigation. But then on the other side of the coin there were probably some defenses and some things that are not fully clear and some statements and sentiments that are perhaps exculpatory. So there's evidence on both sides of the question, which doesn't mean there's no evidence. But it doesn't mean he's exonerated. It means that there was evidence on both sides and arguments, maybe more accurately on both sides of the question of whether a crime was committed and in particular, the crime of obstruction that I'm looking forward to reading closely, and then in parallel fashion, although Bob Muller was more clear that there was no crime. Insufficient. Evidence of a crime of conspiracy on the issue of involvement and coordination with the Russians in lection interference. I still would like to see if there's any evidence have been I would bet there is some it just didn't even rise to the level that the obstruction evidence rose to then on the question of reductions, what are we going to be able to tell they're going to be a narrow are they're going to be entire pages. Blackout Bill bar. You'll recall has said he would indicate the nature of each redaction in. I think he gave four basis for possibilities of action. But see if I remember them material that relates to ongoing investigations material that's classified material that relates to grand jury information and material as he put it that unduly might prejudice peripheral third parties, I still don't know what a purple third parties. And I'd be curious to see if the reductions may clear, the kinds of people who are peripheral how many reductions what will the fight be over with actions, and he's identified those four categories instead they're going to be. Color-coded? So it'll be interesting to see what proportion of reductions fall into each category. And then of course, how faithful was the summary. You know, that will be a little bit of a guide to assessing Bill bars. Credibility in terms of the reductions if it turns out that the summary was not particularly faithful and spun things in a much more positive light than was warranted. By the actual report. I think that is a reason to be concerned about the reductions if on the other hand, it looks like there's a very faithful summary, maybe we can have some more faith in the reductions remains to be seen. I'm also curious to see what's new in the report not because new information necessarily has a different legal affect. But there is this sort of political and optics environment that we're in because among other things congress may decide to take up action to engage in hearings to pursue impeachment. And I think the likelihood of that happening depends a little bit on whether or not there's new information their new revelations things, we didn't know about conversations that. Seem salacious and worrisome. The congress might want to delve into more that's only because of the nature of how momentum bills and develops. If all of it is merely a stringing together. In a compelling way of things that are already pretty known or that have been reported in the papers. Even if they haven't been confirmed officially by the government or by the special counsel. Then I think it's easier for the president to say in his allies to say and for congress to to agree and concede. This is all old news and Bob Muller, sort of put the cap on the bottle, and we're done to the extent. There's new things it'll be interesting to see how that plays out in what the new cycle does. In connection with that related to that. I'm wondering who talked in whether or not the names of folks are redacted or even if they are adapted. They'll be as easy to identify as individual one was in Michael Cohen guilty plea. You've seen reports in the last few days. I'm guessing the various members of the Trump administration have some level of anxiety and fear that they will be identified as folks who gave information that's derogatory about the president in that. There will be some kind of retribution. Whether that's you know, calling them out by name blacklisting them from from future work in the government or in politics taking with security clearance. Any one of the things that the president has engaged in before? I think it'll be interesting to see who talked and how extensively and whether we can know who they are going back from an to the issue of reductions on one level, perhaps the most interesting reductions to see in by see I mean, you know, to note what the foot the redaction basis is. Are the reductions of fall into the category of material relating to ongoing investigations was obviously one of the main main questions that people are going to want to ask and have an answer to is what happens next. So on some things the gate is closed in the deal is over. But on other things, we know this for a fact because there's a statement about ongoing investigation. Something's will will live on either in the southern district of New York or the national security division when the DC use journeys office or the eastern district of Virginia US attorney's office, and perhaps other places. So if you see a large quantity of things that are redacted on the basis that they relate to ongoing investigations that is an interesting sign, and no an-and, I'll be talking about that also sort of overall, I'm a little curious about the style and tone that will see the mother report, my guess is based on other things that have been filed both memoranda in court sentencing submissions criminal indictments that. It will be non-editorial is d- document that lays out. Facts. In a compelling way. I assume it will be well written, and then we can follow along reductions notwithstanding that would be very hard to quibble with you know, to the extent of their conclusions. And there are analyses. Maybe those would lend themselves more to arguments on either side, but I'm expecting that a lot of the document will simply be arrestation of facts dates times statements, perhaps even quoted directly the people made documents that are quoted from directly that were discovered and collected during the investigation, and I think that's for the good because the the less editor realizing there is and the more simple recitation of facts that you see the more likely people have faith and confidence that the investigation was done rigorously, and effectively and thoroughly and then of course, you know, everyone will be trying to infer what happens next based on the nature of the report. What will the fight over reductions be we'll be the avenues to pursue for congress. Depending on you know, new bombshells if any. He that drop. How will this affect people's mood for further inquiry by congress will Nancy Pelosi among other people, and he's an important figure here stick to her view that she uttered a few weeks ago that maybe impeachment is not worth the effort our at the time or will there be enough momentum because of new revelations and because of the way the report was written that might fuel further inquiry. I think I think those are among the major question this is by the way, very non-exhaustive. I haven't had my have my pasta yet. But those are among the things that the I'll be looking for you should be looking for and that an milligram, and I will be talking about and this one last thing just about the nature of evidence that I think a lot of people appreciate, but I'm not seeing reflected in some of the commentary, especially by people who have a particular point of view and are close to the president. So proof is proof evidence is evidence. And there are lots of things that can be evidence of something. But may not be enough evidence to rise to the level of being able to bring a lawsuit or being able to print in a newspaper or more seriously being able to use in court to prove beyond a reasonable doubt someone guilty of a crime, and I keep seeing people like Sarah, Huckabee Sanders, and others clearly willfully misleading the public as to what Evans means. It is definitely the case. And I think it will not be contradicted on this that there was some evidence of conspiracy that there was some evidence. And maybe this financial amount of evidence of an obstructive intent it just didn't meet the threshold for bringing criminal case. And I keep seeing Sarah Huckabee Sanders say things like there was no evidence. There was no evidence. The president obviously says he's honoration exoneration exoneration Bob Muller as people I think correctly point at had something of a binary choice, the same kinds of choices. The prosecutors generally have and that is you investigate you look at the material and either there's enough evidence to bring an indictment, which is very very very high standard or not, and that's it, and then you walk away. But there there are other purposes, and there are other ways to hold folks accountable. Even when you're not talking about the president of the United States, I've used this example, before so sometimes it's the case, and I'll pick one particular controversial example, where a police officer was involved in a questionable shooting, and maybe the DA's office will investigate or sometimes he was in his office will investigate and because of the high bar of bring a criminal case and the need for proof beyond a reasonable doubt. And because the law gives a lot of difference to people who have law enforcement positions, and you can disagree with that. But it happens to be the case sometimes those investigations and often those investigations will to the disatisfaction of a lot of people close before a criminal case is brought or it's brought to the grand jury in the grand jury didn't find that the very high. The threshold for criminal matter was met, and there will be no criminal chart. That's not the end of the story for the cop in police department after police department the disciplinary authority at the force will usually wait until the criminal investigation is over. And then even after it's over, and there's no filing of a chart and sometimes even after there's been an acquittal. If there is the filing of a charge. There may still be enough evidence, which is not as much as you need for criminal cases. There may still be enough evidence for the police department to absolutely legitimately unlawfully fire the police officer. So you have and that happens at banks that happens at companies all the time. It happens at schools the standard for indicting a teacher for engaging in some conduct is a high one just like it is for everyone else the standard for firing at teacher disciplining teacher for engaging an abusive authority as an educator at the school is much lower. And sometimes criminal investigations can yield enough evidence to do the second thing. Even if it doesn't us enough. Evidence. Do the first thing all of which is just a sort of an analogy for people to keep in mind, as you think about what level of evidence there was with respect to the president's actions on obstruction in particular to gauge how you think someone else like congress should react. Now just to cover my bases. Maybe it's the case that the document is so heavily redacted that the big news story will be the outcry over, you know, all the black marks on the document. And finally, by the way. Just in case you thought that the only reading you have to do is the three hundred something page Muller report, productions aside. We're told that there will be something else to read and that is the president's counter report. And there are different stories in the newspapers about how long that counter reporters, which I presume will be unredacted. It'll be interesting to see what they say. And to what extent they anticipated? The things about mother had to say, it seems odd to me if they're going to put that out simultaneously. Maybe it'll come later in the day. Maybe it will come the next day. But obviously, the president and his allies have a substantial interest in how the mullahs report gets reported in the news, and what the reaction is in whether it's yawn or whether there's an outcry. So a lot of work. I'm going to sign off. Now, stay tuned for the special episode with endelman me coming shortly. Listeners. I think most of you know, by now that I wrote a book it's called doing Justice, and it's a New York Times bestseller. If you wanna learn more about it or buy it head to doing Justice, book dot com. Thanks for your support. If you like the show rate and review it on apple podcasts every positive review helps new listeners find the show, send me your questions about news and politics tweet them to me at pre Perahera with the hashtag ask creed. Or give me a call at six six nine two four seven seven three three eight that's six six nine two four creed. Or you can send an Email to stay tuned. A cafe dot com. Stay tuned is presented by cafe. It's produced by cat, Erin. And the team at pineapple street media Henry, Milwaukee Joel level, Geno, Westbohmen and max linski the executive producer at cafe is Tamara suffer and the cafe team. Julia Doyle, Calvin Lord, the Bassetti and jet visor. Stay tuned is produced in association with Stitcher. I'm Preet Berrara. Stay tuned.

president Bob Muller congress mullahs Bill Browder Twitter Sarah Huckabee Sanders New Jersey United States Castro Asprey DOJ New York Times Putin attorney pre Perera Justice Milliman DC
Russian referendum gives President Vladimir Putin sweeping new powers

The Current

15:44 min | 4 months ago

Russian referendum gives President Vladimir Putin sweeping new powers

"The he smashed pretty much. Every billboard and streaming record that matters it has already been streamed more than a billion times. People still to this day. Point to this is the moment everything changed, but whether you agree with those claims are not this podcast. Is it really about him? Either? You're not an astute businessman, or you're inherently racist. When it comes to black music in this country, this is not a drake podcast available now on CBC listen or wherever you get your podcasts. Told! To. Use, one small man giant wheel. I, do wish say official that I'm roughly right now. Uncover season seven. Dead Wrong. Killed tipple it. Meaning Available on CBC, listen and wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. The outcome of the referendum to change Russia's constitution was never really in doubt and as a result today Vladimir. Putin is more powerful than ever. He's been granted a series of sweeping new powers including a provision that would allow him to hold onto Russia's presidency until. Thirty six. My next guest has been tracking Putin and his tightening grip on his country. For decades, Catherine Belton is a special correspondent for Reuters, and the author of Putin's people how the KGB took Russia back and then took on the West Hello. Hi, hi, thanks so much for having me on well, thank you for being here. I before I get to referendum and the implications of that I want to quickly. Ask You about the the story that's been bubbling away. This week reports that the Russian military paid bounties to the Taliban to target and kill American and coalition soldiers in Afghanistan. What do you make those allegations? Yet it's really important story I mean president trump is still seems to be saying that he hasn't heard this intelligence that hasn't been verified, but in fact we're seeing more and more of the intelligence. Come out and reporting mostly by the new. York Times today they were reporting that the the US intelligence had been tracking Afghani intermediary for a very long time. Indeed, they raided his home. I find five hundred thousand dollars. Stuffed away in cash. This was an intermediary who? A, few years ago didn't have enough money for a blanket and bench suddenly was able to buy himself multiple houses, because in the security expert at school is going back and forth to Russia we know the US intelligence. authorities have also incented electric data which show shows that Russia's military intelligence agency was transferring funds to you. Taliban to count. It kind of begs the question of why trump hasn't been on top of this. let let me turn back to the referendum. There was no doubt about what the outcome was going to be. Because it was basically set up for Mr Putin to win. But but how important was it for this display? I guess is the best way to say it to happen and for him to be approved for lack of a better word in this way. Yeah. It's very curious He didn't even need to hold the referendum tool. It was already passed into law several months ago, and in fact, even before the vote began. The Russian bookshops began displaying the Yukon. Printed, it was a done deal, so it's kind of incredible that they sort of went through the whole rigmarole, and it seems Putin you know even though he presents himself with a strong leader, actually please sign that he's got a real insecurity. These needed to kind of cook up this whole. Charade just to sort of give him extra legitimacy. He said himself before the vote in an interview that he needs to kind of he needed these constitutional changes to longest holding power, because otherwise everyone would stop working and start looking for a potential successor, so it's almost as if he he's sort of. He knows himself that Well his his time should've been up but he needs this extra votes to give himself either extra breathing space to actually resolve the question of handing the pouted successful. He really does intend to be president fas ice. We know that they had this experiment previously went Putin. Briefly handed over power to mind he very much, so as his protege, he was a young lawyer. Dmitry Medicine, who is essentially a yes man, but even then they kind of after four years of Medvedev's presidency, they realized actually even a little bit dangerous to have a yes man. 'cause he was installing so people he was chipping away at sort of the authority of other ex KGB men around Putin he he was taking over more and more, but says the economy, and so they decided actually that was a risky experiment, and it doesn't look like they want to repeat it, so they've. They've country this whole charade it was it was very revealing. Agree about his own possible insecurities or you know why he may have wanted to do this. Can you paint a picture for US though of the? The level of control and influence Putin and his circle have over Russia, because I know that there have been rumblings about declining popularity, but but what is the actual sort of level of control that he has right now. it's it guessing at the greater unfortunately, you know his his men do control the little quotes they control law enforcement, so that means that any sort of business that might not want to be tearing the Kremlin line. You know the kind of PR pray the essentially pray for treatment to take over control it's it's pretty tight on every level. They seem to be taking a cut of of. Of of business deals if you're in a major strategic sector, you have to share your wealth with Putin's men, but there are rumblings of dissent sensitive. Will we see Putin trying to increase his hold them? Will we see the descent? especially in the major cities are already kind of a early reports that perhaps Moscow and Petersburg voted against the referendum, but we're yet to see the official results from the from the cities, because indeed the there are reports that have been a great deal of a forced vacation and actually holding. Holding, the vote turned to cover of the pandemic gave the Kremlin even more wiggle room to kind of stuff ballots, and so because there were no real an independent monitors social distancing bet that could verify the identities of who was voting. There was more `electronic voting which isn't sort of monitor the toll, so they've really got kind of caught blanche to kind of cook. Whatever figure that they want, and in fact, even though Cova still open, the Kremlin has already declared soon to try. It then issued early the result. There is though a price to pay for for breaking away from his inner circle. That has this control and excellence over Russia. Can you give us an example of of what that with that consequence might be for for disloyalty? Yes I, mean essentially you're. You're pursued to the of the US of we've seen If one member of Putin's in circle in particular who did a decided that he had enough, he wanted to leave Russia's for France he was slowly being sidelined, even though he'd been very close to Putin in the past, he wasn't sort of a real member of the in a click. 'cause x KGB men and a one point the the KGB. Men around Putin decided. They want to take us or this particular tycoon. Assets these were military shipyards. The individual in question was sick. A pouliches who'd? Previously played a great role in and bringing Putin power, but in the end he wasn't of the same click. Of KGB, men and they just decided to take over his assets and I've even after he fled to France, and then to the UK they began to this pursuing through international coats, claiming that he stolen money from the bank that he was behind the bankruptcy of the bank, but a lot of these claims as of yet to be heard in international courts, but even so they were able to freeze his assets and. Pursue, a wide ranging international legal vendetta during him, and we see this to in the cases of the investors in Russia, whose crossed with Putin and his regime will. We will head about Bill Browder, yes, around the biggest foreign investment fund in Russia He's been on the receiving end to national. Legal K. campaigns to tarnish his name. They've tried to put him on and pull list many times over. Even though that's been deemed politically motivated attack so really the the the almost the Kremlin is getting longer outside its folders. Yet we, what do you think people in the West fail to understand about the Putin regime, and and what its goal actually is like what? What should we be worried about when we hear these stories of Putin sort of securing his own power for from for longer and longer. Yeah I think one of the oversights really in Western. Analysis is his regime. So far has has been understanding. Why was he an his INA? Socalist security men were accumulating so much wealth we see almost the beginning of his presidency that he and his allies in the Kremlin were beginning to take over the country to teach at cash flows. They took over the oil company of me how to Ski. the Yukos oil major. This was once Russia's biggest. Biggest Oil Company and they did so through whatever means necessary. They did though through sensually taking control the court system, selectively retroactively applying charges against him, and really, but the West's kind of fool this Morris this asset grab, which then continued into other sectors of the economy as a way for Putin and his men to line the pockets. That would seem very much through A. Prison but for Russians You know that wealth isn't just about kind of. Living living well yourself, it's also to do with a display power. They were taking over. The strategic cash flows to kind of shore up their own position home to make sure that when there was no one with the same way with all to realistically challenge them, and then once they take and control tens of billions, if not hundreds of billions of dollars in cash, then they essentially had a kitty which could then be deployed to begin undermining democracies in the West. Corrupt politicians in the West, and it's really a sort of an extension of what the KGB did in Soviet times then they use intermediaries as front companies to fund influence operations and Communist Party operations abroad in the seventeenth and eighteenth, and now we see this sort of same playbook being returned to apart for now the Kremlin regime has. Has Hundreds of billions of dollars more in cash that they can deploy, and the Russian economy of course is much more integrated into the West. also what's been decl understood has been the role of of the the businessmen many of Russia's busy You know some of them made their money in the yeltsin-era in the ninety S. they've seen as independent, but I I in fact sort of Putin's men have no chipped away at that independence through threats, intimidation, and so on, and so essentially many of these Kremlin tycoons, and now vassals of of Putin state. They have to toe the line of. Business could be taken away from them, so they can also be deployed. Abroad as essentially as custodians of the Kremlin, and they can also be used to funnel money into sort of politicians coffee with in the West, and and so it's sort of you know instead of we lose again. We're seeing this now in Afghanistan. Russia uses its wealth to chip away and try to stabilize the West and in particular the US, which despite everything by all these years it still. He's of Russia's main accessory. Unfortunately, the men in power in Russia at the moment that they're ready. Sort of you know. The the Cold War reflexes. Wide into the yes systems and it's very unfortunate. I only have about a minute left Katherine. Let let me ask you. Just you know if Putin remains in power until twenty thirty six and I understand some people in Russia want this to become sort of a a quasi monarchy, and that's basically what that would look like. What would Russia look like if he does? Hang on that long in a minute if you can do that? That's that's Yeah, unfortunately, I mean. People are worried now about. She's Lacquers of vision to the economy. He seems again. scared to kind of make any radical change. Because the minute he allows more competition for financing the economy Then that means him relinquishing some kind of suppose power so I'm afraid what heading for is is a Brezhnev era tight stagnation and people already think he's in looks like a pickled pressure has. And that means for the people of Russia that their lives don't improve basically. Yes I mean well without economic growth. Say can no longer. Living standards don't go into right and he's further and indeed. were. Expecting a big economic downturn in Russia recessions forecast for that six point six percent this year. You're likely to be wave. After wave of bankruptcies, Russia has been able to gather a rainy day often, but it's a finite amount and not going to be able to bail out anyone from the most basic of companies. Catherine Belton, thank you so much for weighing in all this and teaching us very much. Thank you appreciate it. Thank you thanks for having me on. And Belton is the author of Putin's people. How the KGB took back Russia and then took on the West. We reached her in London. Hey podcast listener we want to hear from you. A lot has changed over the past few months, and we WANNA. Make sure the current podcast works for you with a quick survey about what you want to hear. It'll take less than ten minutes. We promise and you'll help. Make the podcast the best. It can be to take the survey. Go to our website CBC DOT CA slash the current. For more CBC PODCASTS GO TO CBC DOT. Ca Slash podcasts.

Mr Putin Russia KGB Russia Russia US CBC Taliban Catherine Belton president official Afghanistan Kremlin York Times Bill Browder Reuters Yukon Biggest Oil Company trump Dmitry Medicine