4 Episode results for "Beth Myers"
7.07: The Debate (Part II, with Ronald Klain and Beth Myers)
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I'm rich way and today. We're talking about the debate. It's episode seven from season seven. It was written by lawrence o'donnell. It was directed by alex graves and at first aired on television on november sixth two thousand five before we get into this week's discussion of the debate. We want to clarify one thing from last week's episode we realized as we you're talking about. The version of the episode on netflix is missing about eight minutes of content but it's also missing on itunes and some other digital distribution platforms so after we wrapped wrapped up with lawrence last week. We actually talked about it a little more. Here's a little bit of that. We'll so here is the likely source they might have had to do this. Cutting thing for syndication because this show did go into syndication in different places <hes> yes it didn't go into syndication in a big way but it went into syndication enough that somebody had to cut that for syndication and then probably it's that same department for bravo right and possibly free you know european and others and so then it's from that source that they are in effect syndicating it again to netflix and this would be the only episode that suffered because all the rest of them mar. You know the regular length right. I think you're i think you're absolutely right that must be it so let's <hes> mount the complaint to warner brothers and tell them they've got to create a digital version for history and preferably the one with my mother if they could just just just use the east coast we should probably guide the more likely toward warner brothers 'cause when you think about it why the hell would net flicks bother exactly yeah no they. They don't make those kinds of decisions so that could be the solution to to the mystery and hopefully we can find a way to get warner brothers to get the d._v._d. Version to digital platforms instead of the syndicated version we should have made that clear in the last episode our policies and our apologies to net flicks for any angry tweets. They might have gotten undeservedly. This is our second of two episodes covering the debate now for this week. Our coverage today is going to be about what was discussed by the two candidates in the episode and to help us along with that. We have two very special guests who have a lot of history working on debates themselves. We have returned to the podcast ronald papas murph clain. You already know him well. He was chief of staff to vice president joe biden. He was chief of staff half to vice president al gore. He has a long storied career that also includes preparing every single democratic presidential candidate since one thousand nine hundred two do we also are joined by beth myers. Beth was a senior adviser on mitt romney's two thousand twelve campaign for president and she was a campaign manager on his two thousand eight presidential race and before that she was chief of staff for all four years of the romney governorship in massachusetts beth. Thank you so much for joining us. You are not a super familiar west wing watcher as you told us because you had kids at the time and this was not something you are attuned to and there was no tibo so you had to watch it live or you're stuck dark ages the dark ages so this is your first time watching this episode. Actually you know i think i might have watched that episode in doing debate prep because it looked familiar when i was watching it no kidding yeah and run. Have you seen the episode before yes. I saw it before and i you know i've watched it for the year's time. Have you ever watched both the west coast and the east coast live versions to see the differences between the two. Oh very cool. Do you have a preference. We know that the one we've all watched the west coast. Is there a qualitative difference. We know there's the big debate about casta in one of the two and it really doesn't appear in the other one of the two so you get like a whole extra issue in one of the two episodes well. One thing that we've discovered is that the version on netflix version in itunes and really any kind of post syndication airing of the west wing is missing several minutes of the episode. The original episode aired for fifty two minutes the version that lived on afterwards outside of the d._v._d. Version is only forty four minutes so the bunch of stuff has actually got cut for a lot of people. I myself have never seen the full length version of the debate but we're going to muddle through it with what information we do have the forty four minutes that we've got first of all. What did you think about just the optics of the debate itself before we get into the content. How did this look to the set the podium the for sawyer of it all did this feel like a credible bull setup for this episode sure i thought it did i mean i had a little bit of p._t._s._d. When they were in the green rooms coming out that is probably one of the most tense moments when you're are really alone with the candidate in the green room before they walk out and you got it right <hes> usually it's one or two aides and a spouse and you walk out now what i didn't think it was credible was that there would be somebody walking with the candidate talking about the rules. I would have killed somebody who who did that because because you know you don't want that in their head as walking on the debate stage but the stage looked right the feeling was right. The tension was right. Both candidates admit to being terrified with this feels like terrified doesn't begin to describe. Is that usually the case. I can only speak for governor romney and i would say yes us. That's candid yeah. I mean i'd i'd say look i thought i the set is stunningly. Realistic the podiums. I think either were borrowed from the debate. Commissioner exac mockups of the commission the podiums have been used in the last several debates and the general election the blue backdrop. The only thing that was really changed was the commission logos. A little different woah faked up but i mean it's it really does look like <hes> what people see when they turn on their t._v.'s in late september and early october every four years nc two candidates standing at podiums doing what the candidates did in this debate the reason why i'm curious about the realism for it is because ron you've told us in the past that that creating a similac rim of what they're going to walk onto on the night of the debate is an important part of prep as well and that that you would actually create sort of replicas of what the setup was going to be for them. You know whatever place you were. You were practising yeah but actually if people want to take a look at this and all the photos that obama the people who put out through the years. There's a picture of president obama practicing for his debate with governor romney on a set looks identical to the set that this episodes in with john kerry who are standing playing governor romney and brock obama behind his podium and myself sitting at the desk were forrest sawyer sits at in this episode and pete souza's released this photo. It's one of his says one of his favorite hundred photos of the obama presidency for some reason and people go online and look at it and it will look exactly like take what they see in this episode but who's standing for the debate prep for president obama senator rob portman and we to did the backups of the stages and again you get these things exactly right you may measure them out because the geography of the stage is really important to the candidates and when they go oh on the stage you want them to be familiar with how far apart they are from the other candidate how far they way they are from the audience and what i thought it was interesting in this section was when they grabbed other microphones and they both use the territory of the stage to their advantages which is not something that you generally do you in a podium debate. That's usually an issue in in the town hall before we move off from it. I just want to ask what was your thinking behind having senator portman as the stanton. That's a sort of casting problem that you have to solve yourself. So what was it that you were looking for from your standing in that situation someone who is as smart as president obama who was steeped in the issues who was willing to give the i mean ron can attest to that. Whoever does this is the time consuming job and senator portman was very generous with his time and willing to commit to give an a plus performance as the president. I mean it's not an easy thing to be the standard and there's a lot of pressure on you yeah and do you tell a standen. Go forward is absolutely go for the jugular. Is there ever any hold back a bit. We do all sorts of directing. We had probably four or five versions of president obama and actually we had even more versions of vice president biden but it definitely had different directing tactics said the episode begins said with this discussion a bit about the rules you know sort of catching them up on the format sort of standard format of a certain amount of time to make your statement and then rebuttal and response and i think there's some feeling in the episode that the <hes> rules are going to be two one candidates advantage over another. Do you find that that's the case. Are there certain candidates for whom structured debate rules worked better than for others is an advantage for everybody or is it a disadvantage for everybody you know in fact now <hes> really since two thousand eight in general election debates. We don't really have the kind of structured rules that vinick and santos are presented with in fact. I found interesting about the the debate is the debate that transpires out rules looks a lot like what a real presidential debate looks like because now what we do in these presidential debates is each candidate on each top does get to make a brief statement but then they have a free exchange period and so while the rule shredding that's done with this episode is filmed in two thousand and five is kind of shredding the rules existed existed in two thousand and four people watch this debate today at actually looks not like a rule shredded debate but in fact a lot like the obama romney debate in two two thousand twelve or the clinton trump debate in two thousand sixteen in terms of rules and structure the second thing i'd say is that i think trying to guess at this level of debating and this level of presidential politics you're down to the final two people to people who have beaten a lot of people to get their two pretty skilled people to be standing on that stage age. I think trying to figure out which rules benefit your calendar don't benefit your candidate or almost always a fool's errand. I think that you know the candidate. That's better prepared knows his or her case. Jason knows what they wanna. Say usually does well. I remember in two thousand and four the bush campaign president bush can even a big deal out of the fact that they pushed hard to have of timing lights because they were convinced the senator kerry was a democrat comedy would go over and the timing lights would expose him and this'll be a disaster mr for senator kerry the would happen to debate night was it was pretty easy to teach john kerry to not go over to like stop before the light turns red but but president bush gave a lot of short answers and he would finish in the light would still be green and he'd be standing there there will be waiting from to say something and so this canard that they had put in there this rule they'd put in there to try to hurt curing how bush wound up helping carry and hurting bush so i'm not a big believer that like you can suss out the rules in a way that really at this is level of proficiency that really clearly benefits your candidate. Yeah i agree with that and look when you have presidential candidates on in the general election you have experienced experienced debaters by the time it romney was on the stage with president obama. I've counted them. He done forty-five primary debates so like there's no one else who you know these. These people have done something that is pretty unique. They've got on the stage that many times that being said you know the big show with the final two is very different from the primary debates but ron is absolutely right. The rules are made to be as flexible as possible. Now the candidates want to get their message to the american people all they want the moderator to be as much of a cipher as possible and just is invisible as possible and that was less so in the two thousand and four debate which this was modeled after so one of the things that josh and i discussed about what we were hoping to get out of this episode poses a kind of existential question a little bit you know one of the things we were curious about how was one at large. Who have you thought maybe won the debate and then also more granular level who might have one certain points or questions but before before we got to that i just wanted to ask you each what you thought about the even the idea of a debate having a winner and loser. Is that an incorrect way of thinking about it and from the inside. Are you really more concerned with just getting your own candidates message out rather than trying to have some kind of imaginary scoreboard award where things are being tabulated. Look i think debates sometimes have winners sometimes they don't and i think everyone knows when when someone is wanted debate i mean we went into the first debate in denver. It was much more of an existential debate for the romney campaign than it was for the obama campaign we had had a bad september and we needed to have a really good debate performance. Stay actively in the hunt and so look. We were very motivated to do it so our candidate went on very aggressive. We had the belief that whoever went on on offense more was generally the winner and we took advantage of a debate those on the economy where we felt was our strong territory in this debate. You know i kind of thought it was a bit of a draw. I thought they both had good points if i had to call a winner i would've said santos but i think the vinegar people probably heard what they wanted to hear. The santa's people heard what they wanted to hear. Both of them gave good answers for their supporters. They both had personality they both were smart and so that was my opinion of it i agree largely really with beth on the win-lose thing i mean not every debate has a winner but in every debate someone's trying to win and debates particularly now. Mrs changed over the twenty five years. I've been doing this. Debates are really pugilist. Exercises and you know boxing match. I mean sometimes the boxing match ends in a draw but often one candidate punches the other the candidate out or just punches the other candidate enough that you know they win on points and so i do think these are competitive exercises that often yield a winner in to me. I agree one hundred best said which the winners usually the candidate that's on offense. I often tell candidates either you drive or the other person drives doesn't have to drivers and so i think for that reason i think in this debate santos kind of one of the santos did more of the driving the vinik did santos pushed the debate more to his topics than vinick it did and then i think even some of vic's best moments. Were really going to be huge. Politically scoring moments. I think is like his longest oration is the speech about tax cuts in africa. Some african tax rates are the highest in the world in tanzania. The thirty percent rate kicks in at four hundred seventy five dollars of income. Just how many votes you're picking up with like african tax. Policy is like your message so i thought santos was more on offense. I thought but santos tended to drive more and some of the things i thought just evolved respect my good friend lawrence. Some of the words put vicks mouth. Were like a democrats idea of what republicans republicans should say as opposed to what really a republican would actually say. I'm pretty sure i would walk on stage and hit on the head of the stick. Any candidate said in headstart just doesn't work. I just don't don't republican absolutely saying that on national television so i think santa's had a little bit of an advantage there to just speaking into the point of offense. This may seem trivial but i'm always sort of intrigued by the dance that occurs. Do you think it's a a micro win for santos. When he's the first to approach and do the handshake he walks over to vinick. Is that kind of thing discussed. How are you gonna. I greet each other and santos team stronger as he strides is over and says a load of vinegar. It seemed to me like that was written into the script as something that people might talk about but yeah i mean like that's an alpha move. So oh yeah maybe look at it. That way and definitely is something that might have been perceived. I think he particularly in the beginning of the debate he he seemed much more in control. Even though it was it was inex- idea to scrap the rules even as he was doing that santos seemed to have a much better control control of that whole situation given that offense the mode that you both recommend for candidate. Is there ever a situation where not appearing as as an alpha is actually two candidates advantage or is that something that all candidates need to project well. I one thing i've found that as you know you have to be the aggressive candidate that you can't be overly aggressive candidate so i think there's alpha there's too much alpha right and so a famous example of that is back in two thousand when the candidates were have a gore was debating bush and they had a a town hall debate the candidates could roam the stage gore kind of got right on top of bush and try to do a alpha move were really stood over bush and bush just sat on the stool turn back kind of gave him a little look said hello and went back to his answer and going look like a jerk so i think you've gotta find that right balance between how much alpha is compelling and leadership and how much is just you know this person's an unpleasant jerky kind of person trump did a lot of skulking and looming behind hillary clinton debates yeah yeah ron has a lot of experience. I'm sure there's a lot of difference between a debate with two men and a debate with a man and a woman on how those dynamics work gender obviously batters and we live in a very gender oriented aware society and certainly <hes> secretary clinton had challenges in line to walk that male candidates didn't have have to do. I thought she did a superb job of dealing with it but you know the stalking thing is a good example. Which is i think during the debates we really took the view that it was important horton for her to kind of as the first woman ever nominated to be president to kind of not complain and not stand up and stand toughened and since then she wrote in her book look that she regretted that she didn't turn around and call trump out explicitly for stalking are and so on so forth so look gender matters genders different. The santa's vinick debate was obviously debate between two men. There's a race issue. Obviously ones latino and one is white but obviously there's no gender issue in the santos vindicate debate well. That's a great place to a start in terms of our our first issue in the debate again with the caveat that most of us have watched the version netflix on itunes where <hes> and not version on on the d._v._d. Which is missing eight minutes but the first question that comes from forrest sawyer is on illegal immigration and the mexican border. How would you secure the mexican border enforcement. I that's my policy. I would double the border patrol increase double triple at senator. Are you proposing trip in on yours. We already did since one thousand nine hundred ninety. We have triple not double. We've tripled the border patrol on the mexican border and you don't need me to tell you that it hasn't solved the problem if we could. He was writing beth's it. Can we start with you yeah. I mean look immigration is always a tough issue and tough for everybody because there's a lot of passion there. I thought the santos did a really good job on humanizing it and bringing it home and bring it personal and that's a debate tactic debate skill and he took control of that issue it really quickly and got it off of strict policy and made it more about as a human rights issue and a human human issue vinick then did what republicans generally do in <unk> turn it back into a law enforcement issue and an economic issue so they definitely had different tactics on handling the immigration issue santos the win on that how much iran yeah so this is where watching the full length version matters. I don't wanna get to west wing nerdy here but what's what's cut. <music> out from the shorter version is a loop where vinik just blows with a huge opportunity so plays out the way you said but then at some point in time vindicated comes after santos for flip flopping on kaffa central america free trade agreement where santos had voted for in the ways and means committee voted against instead it on the floor and he winds up facing the john kerry thing. Oh i was for it before i was against it kind of problem and what's interesting is after santos has said basically look you can't solve illegal immigration with border patrol you need to sell with economics and then he proceeds to explain why he was against a a trade agreement that would have helped mexico economically like vinik should've been lowered the boob on unlike the wait a second. You said this was economic and now you're against the trade deal. Neil like what is actually your economic plan here to like resolve the immigration problem and so in the full length version. I think it's a little more even because like they get in this half half to cul de sac and santos kind of struggles a bit in the character called sac and vinik doesn't quite nail as much as he should but it plays out a liberal evenly. How brutal is it for you to stand on the sidelines while this is happening. I mean do you just need. Are you just trying to tell pah thickly. Send thoughts into the candidates. It's mind so they can say the thing that you want them to say and where physically are you won't debate is happening for one of your candidates. What's the prime spot to send telepathy the to a candidate of the forty eight present debates. I was in the audience for one of them in nearly came out of my skin so i'm always in the green room fidgeting. I don't know about ron. I i have never been inside the hall or single presidential. Debate attended every single presidential helping this country since nineteen ninety-two. I'm always in the green room fidgeting and i will say this. I would really do anything if i never had to. Watch the debate totally agree. I don't mind the crap. I don't mind anything once. Let's they go on stage. I have a fantasy just like leaving the hall and getting on an airplane flying home and not seeing it. It's just you feel the stress. You hope you gave good advice. You hope hope it works and there's literally nothing you can do. It's just such a completely gut wrenching powerless moment that i just i hate it. I hate it or anything things. In the world i agree it is not a place you want to be if you're an adviser and if you've spent so many hours talking about these issues and going over over the nuances of them but when it goes well you feel really good when it's going less well you are. You're just like come on. Come on we. You know we've done that. We've said that we've talked about this. Remember remember this little point. You gotta go there. You know you you can do it. Has either of you ever had a moment where you felt in retrospect that you had miss advised candidate the better particular issue or something that might come up yeah i mean look in two thousand twelve as beth alluded to you know the very first debate between obama and romney and denver became known in the obama campaign is the denver governor romney really kicked president obama's ass and part of that was. I don't think the president was on top of his is game that night but a lot of it was we we had a really bad strategy. We kind of witted there with the thing. I tell people never ever to do one day. Just like oh go in there. Be nice get through walk off the stage. Let's hope nothing goes wrong and you know if you don't go into a debate with a plan to win a debate and you're going into a debate with the plan to lose the debate and we went into that debate with really passive approach of you that basically people liked obama. We didn't want him to be too aggressive because we don't want to put his likeability at risk and and <hes> you know he went into a you know a knife fight with like <hes> you know a rubber hose you know like no knife and so you know that was just a really bad strategy on our part and had really great strategy on best part and governor romney's part and i felt awful about it right afterwards. You're very generous on that. I mean two weeks later. I had a similar experience with the benghazi elude. I felt like we had not briefed mitt entirely thoroughly on the exact wording that the president had used used in the rose garden and you know while i have deep issues with the way that the moderator interjected herself i have bigger issues with myself health and our teams briefing of governor romney on that issue so again. The thing that you regret is when something bad happens on stage and you know we didn't quite do this right. It feels like you prepare for what might be the best case scenario and you rarely ever get the best case scenario if ever so then it's just a matter of managing your level of disappointment even if it's a win or otherwise. Has there ever been a debate where it actually exceeded your expectations. It went better than you thought thought. It could have gone well. I would say denver for us ron. You can talk about debate number three where you guys in two thousand twelve. I think you must have been very a pleased with that. I mean look we had the third to two thousand twelve was the foreign policy debate. We had very high expectations for how the sitting president states was going to do in a foreign policy debate but still we had issues and i thought president obama did really really well that night and and it's always good. You'd never liked to lose the first one but it's always good to win. The last one and i think thank you felt good about that. I think the one that really exceeded expectations was for me was the first debate in two thousand sixteen with clinton and trump where you just really didn't know what was to happen with trump. He didn't know how well she was going to do. The race had really tightened a lot. There's a lot of pressure on her and i thought she did exceptionally well that night and really got a clear win and kind. The race started separating her favourite that point in time. You know as best said it'd be what it goes well. It's the most amazing feeling in the world because poorly it feels horrible but mostly the the ninety minutes they're out there. It just feels like you're pins and needles just dying for it to be over just dying for it to be over. You're looking at the clock and you cannot believe how slowly slowly going okay. Let's let's go to the next question in the debate. It's really about tax policy but the thing i wanted to focus on was this line that vinick where he says i'm going to cut congress's allowance and then i'm gonna force them to get control of spending because if they don't if they send me any a budget that's balanced. I will use this pen veto congress and it's one of those moments to me. That felt very realistic to me because it felt a little bit overly manufactured. You have that pen ready. He had the teddy exactly and those always make me cringe a little bit in debates and yet there's never an end to them. Yeah well look in order for them to work. You've got to have a candidate who is masterful at delivering lines like ronald reagan there you go again. When i opposed medicare. There was another piece of legislation meeting the same problem before the congress i happen to favor the other piece of of legislation and thought that it would be better for the senior citizens and provide better care than the one that was finally passed. I was not opposing the principle of providing care for mm-hmm. I was opposing one piece of legislation as versus another. I mean ninety nine percent of the candidates who would try to deliver that line would have failed and most host canned lines are cringe-worthy. I try to stay away from them. The candidates love them. They love to have them in their back pocket. I think it's a security blanket yeah i i. I agree that i mean. I also think anyone who wrote that. Lunch should have been fired debate prep adviser because it's it's so corny and so obvious and i i think to me the disappointing thing that exchanges the santos doesn't have some comeback for that or some way to kind of shove it back at them. You know i agree you see that but i think you see that less often that you think and rarely that insanely awkwardly i think overall this is part of why fix santos won the night. I think that vinik has style throughout the debate. That's like what we would call in. The business like sunday show style. He has this way of kind of talking about things. In in a way that's kind of really good for like meet the press or or this week or something like that but just doesn't seem strong on a debate stage and when he gets strong he gets kind of fakey and weird like the i'm going to veto the budget moment. Assisting my issues with vic in the debate were more on style than anything thing else leading up to it both in terms of the beginning of this episode but also the episodes prior in this season really set up to think that vinik was gonna just dominate dominate that he was he was the front runner to win the debate by a long shot by a wide margin so then when this is what we got i was a little bit surprised because how can it felt i thought what metric are they judging that. He's so good at the debates. I also think when you think about the arca season headed into this debate. I mean it is the classic classic situation where vanik is the more experienced candidate the more seasoned candidate. It's all set up for santos to win right and syllabi like kennedy nixon or a liberal like obama mccain or bill clinton against george bush and ninety two where for one of these younger dynamic candidates to stand on the stage with the more experienced more seasoned person like he wins by being able to hold his own with vinick and so if matt santos can stand up there and go toe oh toe with vinegar on these issues and even if it's a draw that's kind of a win for santos. Justice was for kennedy against nixon or younger bill clinton against a george bush. The blessing of lowered expectations just like an evening out of stature. There is a style thing that vinick does that. I like in the section where he says says congressman santos running a very brave campaign. I have to give him that. I relate to give you credit for that. He's actually promising a tax increase which is a brave thing to do because the american people don't want it and it's the wrong thing to do because the american people don't want it and that sort of repetition felt like a nice move that one i was like oh. This is a person who knows how to present a speech see i. I thought that felt cantu. I was like oh this is. This is something that was pre written but this one i bought oh yeah to me again. That was another cringe moment for me. Oh i agree with that. I thought it was kind of very cringe-worthy and kind of not what you'd say like. I think what you would say a would be like. It's the wrong thing to do because it's going to wreck the economy. It's the wrong thing to do because it's gonna cost jobs. It's the wrong thing. That's like he would stand there and say it's the wrong thing to do because like people people don't want it. Just made vinik seem very political and i thought it was again kind of a big missed opportunity for him interesting now. We're gonna take a quick break and the west wing. Weekly is sponsored by simply safe sarah she. Do you have a home security system. I do because homes without home. Security systems are actually three hundred percent more likely to be broken into waza. Why would you wanna risk and i know and but the thing that's crazy is that only one in five homes have home security. Sometimes i think people don't want to invest in security charity systems because it can be confusing it can be expensive or takes too much time to set up a hassle but with simplisafe. None of those things have to be true. That's right. They make it easy to make the one investment that protects all your other investments. There's no contract or hidden fees or fine print and the thing that makes them really cool the video verification technology. That's right using their video. 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You're constantly getting new exciting fun delicious meals to put together and enjoy oy here is a little menu of possible recipes. You could get this if you were blue apron customer chicken chili <unk> ladas with cheddar cheese and jalapeno pepper thai-style glazed to loppy with sauteed vegetables and crispy onions are inge and sweet chilli chicken with rice ice cakes and vegetation how about sicilian cauliflower crumbly with hot honey and tomato dipping sauce nice so to start making delicious brag. Worthy meals feels at home without the hassle. Try blue apron. Check out this week's menu and get sixty dollars off. When you visit blue apron dot com slash west wing that's blue apron apron dot com slash west wing blue apron a better way to cook and now back to the show <music> then we <hes> we get into education and it leads to the next line. The head start doesn't work yeah run. You said that you imagine and beth would hit her candidate on the head if they were to say that. Can you break that down for us. Yeah look it's like a binders full of women moment you do not want to be saying something that can be turned turned into a mean i went to a number of women's groups and said can you help us find folks and they brought us whole binders full of women align head start doesn't work is is definitely lay one of those lines you just don't want those words coming out of your candidates now even though he goes on to explain that he's referring to the academic fade as it were by fourth or fifth grade students that were in the program and weren't there at roughly the same place when you're explaining you're losing so you don't ever want to have a line that can be pulled out like that and played again and again and again in a soundbite soundbite. If i was a reporter doing debate wrap up. That's the line. I would pull out of the debate. Why is that so toxic for vinik. Is that not what his base would agree with anyway. There's a lot of things you know that i'm sure he wait he could have gotten his point across without taking on a program that involves children and giving them a a leg up in life and it's just all the wrong optics in all the wrong imagery and all the wrong policy. Also the two of you know each other clearly. I mean you knew each other from debates but you know each other outside of that as well yes we do. It's so interesting to listen to the two of you. Just sort of talk this stuff out and two thousand twelve elvis some years away but you were facing off against each other. I'm so curious about your relationship the two of you well. I'll start off. We are both warriors. We both go into our jobs. Jobs working for campaigns and candidates who are going to fight the hardest we can ever fight and we will do everything we can for our candidates but when then when the election is held and there's a winner were also both americans and when president obama won against governor romney. I was really really sad but harvard. University has a wrap up and at that event i made it a point to tell everybody in the obama campaign congratulations and and that my candidate and myself would do anything to further president obama's agenda in making america a better place for americans yeah and look. I've enjoyed getting to know beth over the years. I teach a class of sometimes of undergraduates at georgetown on the history of presidential debates. I've had beth come in and speak. I teach a class has at harvard law school some years about long lawyering in presidential debates had beth come in speak and you know her wisdom and experience and perspective is unmatched unmatched and i will tell you that students both college students in law students reacted unbelievably powerfully and campus being what i what they are. Most of my students are democrats. It's and they really enjoy hearing from beth and learning from beth and i do too yeah iran's classes. I am definitely outnumbered in my with democrats. Versus republicans sounds pretty safe. Bet the ron is always the consummate host in making sure that we are talking about issues that and trying to find common ground and again. I think it's really important that we all remember that that's what we're doing. You guys are displaying a refreshing civility of which there is a marked absence these days in politics folks. I know i feel like i'm in the west wing. Another possible. Moment of common ground is in the next issue in the debate which is that of healthcare care. Congressman santos says that his ideal plan which is not what he's actually proposed would be medicare for all which of course feels close to the aspirations aspirations of the a._c._a. Obamacare which of course was also heavily indebted to then governor. Romney's healthcare plan in massachusetts. This is part of the episode this question. I'm curious to find out if this is an area where the two of you agree more or or not i don. I actually don't think obamacare. This'll take me back years i but you know i was with governor romney when we put together our plan from massachusetts and it was specifically tailored for the very unique situation in massachusetts asas and it worked well in our state it was always governor romney's position that it wouldn't work well in in other states and we disagreed strongly that the massachusetts healthcare would work if applied to the whole country and that's why governor romney opposed obamacare so strongly. I thought this was one of the weirdest debate moments because santos twenty thirty seconds into his answer gives up his healthcare policy for a brand new healthcare policy presumably like three weeks before the election as beth knows a healthcare has always wanted most contentious issues in presidential politics. You spend a long time thinking about your healthcare answers in your healthcare positioning and how we're going to defend our position how we're we're gonna attack your position and so on so forth and the idea that like you'd stand there on the stage like three weeks before the election and announce new healthcare plan totally seems reckless reckless beyond belief and it's kinda interesting that vinnie kind of lets that go and immediately kinda digs in on the merits of santos's public option but like sanchez just basically admitting adding. I've been running for president for year telling people. I want to do this on healthcare and now three weeks before the election. I'm telling you i want to do something completely different on healthcare and and it's the most important issue in your life and i've changed my position on national television lies that seems like a very bad place to be in a presidential potentially an enormous gaffe that vinick should've of <hes> brought the hammer down on. I think so because like if you're not really sure where you are in healthcare and you have like a secret plan that you're going to uncork in the debate then maybe you've got secret plans on other things like you know who like who knows what what it is and it just seemed. I know it's supposed to seem like courageous and honest straightforward but like people don't like to see people sprinkling surprise on them about healthcare. You guys are tough. This is the west wing top issue <music> an ron's absolutely right. I mean the one issue that you have thought over and over and over again is about healthcare because it's one it's incredibly complicated to there's a ton of money that is involved aww with it flowing through the government and so you know it matters not only for people on a personal basis but for the economy and you just can't wing it you just cannot like throw a jump ball up in the middle of the debate like that. It's a pretty unrealistic moment but it's good fantasy television because he seemed really authentic unreal but actually it's probably one of the most unreal parts of the debate interesting. We'll it's followed immediately by another moment that is made for t._v. It feels like where they leave. Just leave the podiums the podium where they loved you use the the plural correctly they turn it into a town hall style style debate. Even though i mean i guess already thrown out the rules so why not but it feels like given all the preparation that's been done and given how terrified they they both admitted that they are to suddenly at another level of ad-libbing and just grab the mic and try and use it hand held that felt the i don't know i just imagine their staff going crazy at the moment well. I'm going to look back either. Santos had to have a lot of confidence with his ability to use the stage. Well and you know i look back to where president obama had that same confidence in the town hall meeting <hes> debate with senator mccain in two thousand and eight he just lose confidence and even though this debate the west wing show predates the obama debates. That's what this brought to. My mind is a guy is a young guy who had a lot of confidence in his ability to control the stage and the territory of the stage and work with the audience. I mean he did he. He actually did shout outs to the audience at one point right. Yeah i know you lie. Adding others have said that santos kind of based in some ways on obama even pre-obama but i agree with beth this is the most obama likes aspect of santos's performance in this debate where he he is engaging. The audience directly. He's using is youth in his physicality his energy to show vitality eight. Oh and i think the difference between him and jed bartlett in terms of political performance styles most dramatic in this kind of roaming the stage engage in the audience kind of young thing that if you think about the bartlett richie debate when he runs relax you just can't really imagine jed bartlett like doing this and it's hard to do by the way so it is a risky move it and that's why it shows his confidence given that you have so many variables to close in on for a specific debate. Did you really keep debate. Prep focused on just whatever the format was of the one on that you have coming up next was ever preseason moment where you'd kind of mix the town hall style debate prep with the more traditional style style debate prep so they would get a little bit of everything that was coming at them. I'm just wondering if there's if there's a world in which santos and vinick and had actually had a little bit of town hall style prep even though that's not what this was set up as i don't think so and i'll add one of the thing which is that in the real world the stage would not have been lit in a way that would have allowed santos sevigny to do what they did right. The cameras would have been in the right positions. Santos would've been walking wildly off camera as he as he went so many when there's a fixed podium debate bait the camera positions are aimed at the podiums right and there isn't a guy with a hand held walking around filming these people because they're supposed to be standing at their podiums for t._v. Show this is a very un t._v. Outcome for t._v. Show you to your question. We did these things serially so we were doing in the podium we did podium practice than we did townhall practice and we did podium practice but keep in mind these guys have both had primaries so they have been and in any number of debate sessions. They've been in town halls. They've interacted. They have the confidence or lack of confidence in how they can deal with audiences that are close up right and they discover where their strengths are and santos obviously felt very good about his strength in doing what he did and then took credit he grabbed. The mic ended the same thing not to be outdone. The next question was about the pharmaceutical industry and we talked a little bit about iran about your your your thoughts on <hes> not really winning any votes with with vicks answer there. But what did you think about the section overall. Well look it ends with the closest thing for what best perspective will be the candy crowley moment when forrest sawyer tells the candidates to shut up about attacking each other's motives news if they can't produce proof that the kid had so corrupt right yeah it was another moment that you know you wouldn't really want to a candidate to have a republican candidate taft be defending big pharma either and again even though he goes on to explain why he was defending big pharma but it was not a great soundbite beth do agree with with what ron said earlier that this really sounds more like what a democrat would want a republican to say you know i hadn't thought about it in those terms and it's also hard to think about about this historically because i think back to where we were at that time. Republicans were john mccain george bush and mitt romney who were a lot different than republicans are today but yeah i think there were some lines put inventhelp mouth that no republican would ever say actually no candidate whatever say and defending big pharma you feel like might be one of those well look i. I could make an argument. I think his argument he goes on to make a good argument that the american eric and pharmaceutical industry has given well there was his word has given to the world has developed drugs that have saved lives countless lives the way he phrased it given to the world. You know leaving himself open to the saw with santos. Some very nothing miraculous drugs at the american pharmaceutical suitable industry is given to the entire world given to the world. I guess you haven't seen their priceless lately. They kind of circle back to this kind of approach with the airline industry to vinegars again kind of defending an industry at large in some ways like the most successful companies from an industry when they start talking about pension responsibilities and the avoidance of such by the executives it really feels like vinegar really has this this line of of just like i am for the business and i don't know if it's just my own proclivities but to me it does feel like a losing tactic that did feel like a cul de sac that you couldn't get out of an and you know in debate prep. That's kind the thing where where when you see your candidate going down those weird pathways. You're holding your head in your hands. You don't want to go down that way. I do think this is a little bit of of sticking words in a republican mouth that no republican really say allowed vinik an every instance defenses industry things as opposed to counterattacking on santos and kind of saying look like well. If you like aeroflot's like as your model life you know like maybe you should go flying here. Flat like i prefer to fly united in american or whatever i just think there are ways where you can put santos on the defensive and instead vinik takes the bait on all these things in this part of the debate on defending big farm on defending the big airline light companies on defending people getting rid of pension plans to just again. I think just allows santos to kinda hit homerun after homerun here and then the next issue and you brought it up already runs like the don't raise taxes on africans. I mean like if a candidate ever said that debate you'd be going like what what are they talking about. Uh what brain cells did that. We never ever ever went over that issue. And why are you spending your precious precious moments talking about this and and then i would have immediately turned around and said in the green room who talked to him about this all right. I want to go to this moment about the word liberal vinick vinick and santos now and thinking liberal will describe the airline bankruptcies as the evil capitalists screwing say that's. I don't think you should put words now. I know you didn't say you're not an unthinking liberal are you. It feels like again like a something you might have had in his pocket and maybe like he was going for a big kit but even before santos response that felt like i dunno. It didn't seem to work for me. What did you think of that. It was so unpresidential also add violates. Some basic rules that you always tell every candidate the first. Is you know in lawyers know this. You don't ask a question. You don't know the answer to and don't l. Hand the microphone back to your opponent and santos obviously in this case takes this opportunity that vinik supplies him by saying oh you're not thinking liberal are you to like you know give his iconic west wing moment here and so. It's a really bad move by vinik. Pick is best says to be tart and unpresidential and then in particular. We end it with a question where you're gonna let santos just kind of have batting. You're just go you know iconic wesseling moment here progressives true republicans have tried to turn liberal into a bad word. Well liberals ended ended slavery in this country. Look when you're doing debate prep one of the things that the candidates generally understand is try not to serve the softball and again. It's tough what sometimes it happens but this was vinnie just showing it was a real rookie. Move an amateurish play yeah rookie grant. We're getting a college course on on our own just one more thing on this which is again last thing to criticize vinegar. He lets santos delivered this liberals dream of a defensive liberalism and says nothing like he just kinda. Let's go like he doesn't say oh would you liberals raise taxes. He just likes let santos cut a layout. How's the history of modern progressivism and then just like okay fine all right that's it. He stays down on the mat. He got me. I guess i'm <hes> it seems like an odd way to are any of you. Familiar with chris rock's bit about bullet control. You don't need no gun control you. What did he say the bullet control we need to we need to control the bills. I think oh bullish it. Costs five thousand dollars bows what it costs. Five thousand dollars be noble innocent bystander well more serious aspect of this again here. We see lawrence's fine hand because in fact the santos proposal was a moynihan proposal this goes back to lawrence's day as a senate staffer senator senator boy to hand london for chris rock jokes about it really his whole proposal was instead of gun control was a very high tax on bullets and so this is a very old old school boy to hand finance committee proposal from lawrence's staffer days comes through santos's policy program here. I was a hand fan. I i actually when i was reading this as well. This is kind of interesting separate came from moynahan. That's that doesn't surprise me. You know right now president trump he just had a conversation with senator. Senator chris murphy about background checks indicating. Maybe there's some common ground maybe to be reached about gun control currently. Do you think that this is a realistic policy. That could be introduced right now. The best that you could see a republican backing something like this <hes> the you know proposing control over the supply of ammunition. Look i think to me mansion is a great first step. You know i think if you're playing in the real politic world that this is not the next step to go to but but it's interesting and you know let's see what happens with to me mansion and then one step at a time run. What do you think of of in a modern context bullet control. Well look. I think sadly i think it's very very hard to sell because you know i think it's been hard enough to get a ban on salt and hard enough to get background checks policies that affect people who want to buy a gun a hard enough to sell policies affect people who already own guns are going to be even harder and i the smart policy. It's been a smart plan all the way for the thirty years since senator moynihan i proposed. I personally support it but i do think it would be very hard. Sledding politically is there moment from the episode that you want to talk about. They talk about drilling in anwar yet to me. That sort of got you really to philosophical differences. The guy who had had more faith in in government solutions versus the guy who believed only in free market solutions which felt very dated to me but felt very real for that moment in clarifying what about it feels dated. Look you know the republicans at that time. Were the free traders and anti-deficit and that's not really the way we are anymore. You're so the free market stuff feels like it's not quite at the forefront of the republican agenda anymore but that seemed like classic reaganism to me back in his closing where he spelled out a classic establishment reagan era republican point of view and he he spelled it out very clearly and vinik spelled spelled out his view that government could be used to better people's lives or sanders rather santa's rather. Yes thank you there couple of styles two questions. I wanted to ask you about <unk> at points. During the debate both candidates refer to the other by their first name yeah. I noticed that too. Yes that a move. Santa says arnie as if it's a threat arnie arne i understand that the oil companies have given a lot of money of your way so i'm their puppet. It's funny when santos says to me. It feels like he's giving a familiarity automatically makes him appear vince even though he is his junior and he doesn't have as much experience puts them on a level playing field later vinick calls him matt and for some reason it doesn't feel like he's addressing appear. It almost sounds like he's talking about a kid. I don't know i'm curious about how those two moments struck q. and really if you would instruct a candidate to do something like that if it's to their advantage or disadvantage to use their opponents first name i mean i hear a lot of you know. Don't refer for to them at all. They'll say my opponent. You know instead of actually addressing them directly. I've been in debates where there's been an agreement. Let's call each other by the first first name but clearly at this level it would have been very weird for instance if president obama had called mitt mitt and mitt had called him barack that would have just i just felt weird events mr president and governor and yes. You know we talked about that. They're definitely we are reinforcing fact that this guy is the president so we called called. We didn't call him mr president very often but that's what we would have called him so to use first names is a very i mean that is the best strategy for sure yeah and i'd say my one experience with this was twenty sixteen where we made a really conscious choice but secretary clinton would call donald trump donald and indeed if you watch those debates he he calls her secretary clinton and she calls them donald and that was a choice for a couple of reasons. I thought calling him. Mr trump made her sound like she was like his butler. On the apprentice and secondly there was a lot of chatter around hated the name donald like it irritated and got him under his skin irritation recall that so she called him donald all three debates and that was definitely part of the plant and do you think that calling her secretary clinton was a stratagem on their part to know because he veered off and called her crooked hillary a few times and i think he was trying to be kinda like i think accuweather these things where he was trying to be polite and civil and you know unlike dignified and then he just lost it started calling her hillary and crooked hillary and the whole thing before i let you go would either of you pick one moment that if you were going to show something on the highlight reel from presidential debates was there one moment that you thought would be the one that'd be <hes> most memorable for me. It is kind of santos famous what deliverables brought to you moment that i think is his finest moment in the debate and where he seems strong and in-command and passionate. It's a little bit of liberal wish fulfillment to see a liberal dan on a stage and defend the word liberal. I think the second thing i point to us. I do think santos's closing statement where he comes back to personally talks about his journey. It's a really good closing statement talk about what it was like four format santos to go from where he was baptized forty five years ago in san antonio to where we standing tonight. Ask yourselves what it takes to do that and then ask yourselves if you're ready to give matt santos the presidency of the united states. I think that that would be one. I would clip show to people time and again but if you do show to them. Please tell them not to refer to themselves in the third person. That's i do hear you. It's funny only because i would say that the next best moment was his closing statement to where he really pulled it all together and did articulate why he was in this race what what he was doing. We all wanna government. We can believe in. We all want a government that doesn't make false promises a government that doesn't overreach that it doesn't take on more than it can handle and efficient effective honest government. That's what the founding fathers created. That's what they wanted for us. It's funny any i had in my notes on the side. That santos did an extremely good job. In personalizing really did see the difference between the candidates you saw one who was able to relate much better and the second one who was really much more ideologue. Somebody gave a lot of thought in writing this closing remarks because i think they were both very good summing-up the races of both of them. Thank you so much to both of you. We love having you as guests and we learned so much <hes> if people want to follow either view on twitter you can find beth myers at beth myers wires two zero one can find ron clean at ronald clean. You can find us at western weekly and you can leave a comment for us about your thoughts on this episode at the west weekly dot com plenty of opportunities for your own debate over there thanks to nixon margaret miller and zack macneice for helping us make this episode and thanks to radio topi n._p._r. Rex for including us in their exclusive collection of forward thinking podcast about what you can find out more at radio dot f._m. Okay okay okay. What's next before we go. We want to welcome a new show to the radio. Tokyo family is called adult esh from why our media adultish is a culture and advice podcast hosted by neither turner and merck new en to twenty three year olds. They're making a show for young people and also people who are just young at heart murky figure out their adult issues shoes with guests like sexologist shambhu dram or comedian w kamau bell one of our favorites and disney's peyton elizabeth louis they also bring on friends to discuss hot topics from finding a therapist for the first time to male birth control. Here's a little clip boy. It's a girl merck and we're the lucky fools hosting acting adult ish the podcasts were early twentysomethings figure out our adult is shooting sometimes means catching the wrong subway listening interview with an actor from black panther coast do all the work by himself that oaks anyway anyway. This show is produced by why our media and brought to you by our new partners a radio tokyo from p._r._i. Six means is same show same squad and now we're part out of a bigger family of cool in podcasts and if you're a new to our show we basically cover a different kind of adulting topic or ish as we like to call it in each episode like should you save for retirement or by jeep wrangler. Go netflix subtitles or not. Should you get get back together with your ex. No not like that remember wenn sexologists chan budi came over and was like hey y'all need your love game to your ex. Yeah who could forget about listening subscribe at adult ish podcast dot com radio radio acts.
7.07: The Debate (Part I, with Lawrence O'Donnell)
"Now you can get enhanced security for your home wifi network with xfinity x. fi if it's connected it's protected now. That's simple easy awesome them go to xfinity dot com call one eight hundred xfinity or visit a store today to learn more restrictions apply. The west wing weekly is sponsored by ever lane. Ever lane makes great close. They make premium essentials using the finest materials yeah. They do their big hit at the molina household. We've been longtime same customers at the airway. Household is well right on. I was first introduced to them by the very fashionable lindsey and i'm on board. I have so much in my closet. Chances are if you ever see me out in the world. I'm wearing at least one if not multiple ever lane items most recently sure i got a pair of ever lane sneakers is there new sneaker line called tread tread. I got treads. They're my favorite shoes now. They're great and like all of evelyn stuff. They're cool stylish ocean without looking like you're trying too hard and they're also affordable very affordable and they are transparent. They let you know what you're paying for and why they tell you their real costs and right. Now you can check out our personal collection of some of our favorite ever lane items at ever lane dot com slash west wing plus. You'll get free shipping on your first order so that's that's ever lane dot com slash west wing again. It's ever lane dot com slash west wing. You're listening to the west wing weekly. I'm rishikesh airway and i'm joshua malina and today we're talking about season. Seven episodes seven the the debate. It was written by l. o. d. lawrence o'donnell it was directed by a._g. Alex graves and first aired on november sixth two thousand five and this. This is the first episode of to that. We're gonna spend talking about this episode. Look at us supersizing it. There's a lot to talk about this. Episode aired live. They didn't an east coast feed feed and a west coast feed and it's just an extraordinary and unique episode in the west wing cannon and we thought it merited something more next week. We're going to have special discussion with to debate. Prep experts. Actually it's the two sides who prepared the presidential candidates for the twenty twelve presidential debate on the obama team. We have ronald claim returning to the podcast citizen kane and on the romney team. We have beth myers coming to give her perspective as well in the meantime. We're joined by very special guest lawrence. O'donnell himself has a great to be here. Thanks for joining us again lawrence. I heard you say that. This was the hardest writing assignment you've ever had. Do you still stand by that. Yes no question about it obviously broke the mold of what we were doing at the west west wing at broke the mold of episodic tv generally and it was one of those things that i didn't know if it could be done that stage stage one of doubt stage to doubt is i didn't know if it could be done by me and no one did and this is kind of the brilliance and bravery bravery of john wells because live episode was john wells idea he threw that out there possibly even in our first week of meetings but very early on but i think according to him you're the only person to respond positively and then you ultimately volunteered to write it <hes> that could be true what john was trying to do was as you do in the seventh. Year of a series is try to inject energy through different methods and e. R. had done alive episode and and i think even john would tell you. It wasn't really great but it was brave. It was brave and a lot of people showed up to watch it because it was brave and and the trouble with the are is as a shooting exercise. The show really didn't lend itself to being done live it actually would would suffer somewhat by being done live and that's true of just about every tv drama and so the only arena that i could think of in which we could be actually hyper realistic with the west wing would actually go to another level of realism would be by going live with an actual <unk> debate because debates are live. T._v. shows though so john's idea was. Let's do a live episode not specifically. Let's do a live episode that centers around a debate yeah. It was less to alive episode. Which is i'm sure the way the discussion began thity are <hes> years earlier and then the question became what would that live live episode be and on a really don't really remember any alternatives coming up because as soon as this was an option the production challenges oranges were difficult but they were all understandable right from the start whereas you know alive episode where we're trying to run through the hallways of the warner brothers set that route wooden volve production challenges that were kind of unimaginable that would have been a disaster disaster would have been a fair description of what that would have been yeah and in this sense doing a live debate. It's the opposite of unimaginable because these are actual live productions that happen regularly yes and and so there's a a model to us and i followed it as strictly as i possibly could from set design all the way through to every element of it but the original concept that had to be dealt with i would say in the writer's room was my idea to not do this. The way the anyone else would do a debate episode and in fact the west wing had done a debate episode which is the debate is presumed to be boring right therefore we will cut away from it to the players backstage <hes> and that's the way you will see it in any film that has a political michael debate they will always cut away from the debate because the scary horrible boredom of the debate will kill the drama so you know we're always going to the reaction reaction backstage and and the players backstage and also were doing that because they are easier to shoot than the debate and my conceit was no once once they step on the stage this becomes a live television debate and we never leave that stage where jimmy smits and alan alda onboard board right away or was there any <hes> persuasion yes they were. They've they've both done a lot of stage work and that's what this really was. <hes> this was a play with two who performances and every frame of every second of this is live the backstage stuff that begins the debate. That's all live and in any other show that all all would have been filmed ahead of time and packaged and just attached to the live piece but we are claimed needed to be this is live television from start start to finish so when you see ron silver backstage when you see jimmy garoppolo backstage working with their candidates that is happening live and they are walking them mm to that stage live. Every single bit of it is live gonna walk into the stage. Okay don't worry about getting everything in in every the answer we can fill in the blanks depress after which remember dances i love that we do get a mini walk and talk yeah and that was really fun to write i have i have to say that as a dramatist. It was really fun to be backstage in the beginning <hes> where we were. It was fun to see alan. Alda admit how terrified he was to be going on that stage because as a character he'd been presented as very confident guy in an certainly confident political performer and dan to see that the live television debate reduces the mall to jello before it starts and once they get out there if they can find a rhythm they can find a stride. They confined their voices again but when they're about to go on that stage they are in terror so we recently recently watched it on netflix six. Oh don't do that. I just discovered netflix cut eight minutes of the debate what this is a consumer warning. It's very important. Wouldn't i noticed it looks brief. It's very important net flicks cut eight minutes of the debate and i discovered that by watching the net flicks version yesterday a and as soon as they got to the first exchange went wait a minute allen had more to say and i looked down at the bottom of the screen and it's and the debate episode is exactly the same length length on netflix as all the rest of the west wing episodes when i saw that i realized they had to cut eight minutes so then i got the d._v._d. And i saw all the pieces they cut up they cut out a lot including full exchanges on issues like the death penalty just gone from the netflix version no kidding and what that does is it flattens the energy of the performances there are energy notes that are ignited right away in the first question and answer about the border that you don't see in the edited version on netflix. We need to make a statement that says we mean it this time that we're really cracking down on illegal immigration and we need that statement to be heard loud and clear on the other side of the border where everyone knows how easy it is to get into this country. I want everyone on the other side of the border to start thinking talking about how hard it is to get into this country. That's the kind of sensible solution you can expect from a white house and that energy is pulled out constantly throughout the short of forty-three minute netflix version. The debate was actually fifty minutes on n._b._c. n._b._c. Cut the commercial breaks by the way we watching that flex. You're gonna watch do those fades into what you think. Commercial breaks right. No some of those fades are just fades into net flicks at its the only one commercial break in the debate at the thirty minute mark and what n._b._c. did to make up for it was they patted a bunch of commercials after our credits rolled at the end but that also made it an even bigger challenge for the actress because i'm telling you as a veteran of live television myself you are. You just can't wait for the next commercial as it's a breather. You know you're you're off for three minutes. They didn't get that break in the live show until thirty minutes and then they got exactly one break and did you know it was going to run. Fifteen minutes yet was written to run fifty minutes. John negotiated with n._b._c. to <music> eliminate commercial breaks to do it because we were presenting this as a special event and as a live campaign debate we needed audience by in a bunch of ways and if we started going to commercials you know every ten minutes we would have broken the spell that we were trying to create of what this actually really was. Why on earth does netflix have an edited version. I want every listener to the west wing weekly podcast to ask netflix that question. What was the problem with their real estate that they couldn't you know slip in especially in a platform where airtime is don't matter you would think and what breaks my heart about. It is both on the d._v._d. And the netflix version they are using the west coast version of the debate instead of the east coast version which was the first run and in the first theron sitting right behind for sawyer is my mother and in the second run sitting in that same seat is oscar sure winner josh singer west wing writer and i'm sorry i think america wants to see my mother in that seat. Not josh singer dressed him as your mother the quality did you feel that one run at it was better than the other was. The west coast decided to be the better version. No there wasn't because what happened is different. Lines were flubbed in different versions. <hes> so alex graves an eye after the fact when we were thinking about the d._v._d. We're saying you know maybe what we should do is edit together east coast and west coast and i think we may have actually done that for a possible rerun of the episode but the d._v._d. He says that it is the west coast version and it is because my mother's not in it and that's the proof what's a line that might have been flubbed. Well jimmy for example. The west coast version mixes up to tax brackets won't help at all. The uninsured are in the thirty five percent tax bracket not in the ten percent bracket so you're deduction would only give them a ten percent discount. He refers to the ten percent bracket when he means the thirty five so he flips those and so the thing he says after that. If if you're following it and you know math doesn't actually make sense but it goes by one hundred miles an hour so it's little things that also felt to me like a real debate moment like the kind of thing candidate could do just invert to well exactly and that's one of the advantages of any kind of club and i have to say alan was brilliant when he stumbled hold on line he was brilliant at making it look like just a normal human speech adjustments curie federal government contributes about every let seven cents from from each dollar. That's spent on public schools. There's nothing by way of performance flubs that i think we're even noticeable double to the audience. The other little gaffe that i noticed was i think in a discussion about global warming at one point. I think probably alan vinik is supposed to have referred to it as the theory but he has doesn't say that word and then jimmy says theory same people told us we're going to run out of oil by the end of the twentieth century are now trying to scare us with global warming ferries aries global warming theory. It's very weird thing because i agree with you. I saw that on netflix on the d._v._d. The word theory from allen the first first time comes through very clearly same people who told you that we were going to run out of oil by the end of the twentieth century and now trying to scare with global warming theories yet ed global warming theory interesting so i can't figure that out <hes> that's <hes> so i mean once you're in there editing this for netflix through different things you might end up doing accidentally even to touching a piece of audio here or there and the peace so you mentioned your your mother's only in the east coast version in the whole audience change with allison one of the executive pursue show. I wrote this little play. You're going to see her tonight. Not there's enough showbiz professions here tonight to know that the very very very best place to watch live t._v. Show is at home right off okay so you've come to the single place to watch what this show is. Yes there are two audiences. It was two performances of a play and in the second audience. There's actually a bunch of west wing writers who were sitting there behind forrest sawyer. A lawrence schmidt is back there and of course the heckler back. There is the great great christmas yano so here's another clip from the documentary from the d._v._d. Extras with lawrence and alex graves talking about the heckler and <hes> we'll. We'll have a heckler who i guess we'll be offscreen alex unless you wanna see the heckler will be christmas yana somehow people around here. I don't know where they've gotten this impression that i can be adamant adamant and a little bit of a pit bull. I think that they they're going to capitalize on that and throw me in there and have the opposite opinion in every way about him but <hes>. I'm so crazy z. about chris that i just thought i wish he was here and i want to be part of it so i'm forcing him to be here by putting him in the show. I hope he gives me a lot of direction. Because i'll need a satellite please who is in both episodes as the as the heckler in the audience who has to get dragged out <hes> so that is <hes> believe one on performances and actor in the west wing they could have had you do it but then people would have been like why is bartlett's heckling the debate. What about tori polo. She's so prominently visible behind forrest sawyer. I felt like that couldn't have changed between the two episodes right. That's a part of the story. No no you have to love. That's written part of the peace. You know <hes>. The wife is guided down to their seat in that. That's a liturgy in presidential debates. You often see that and the person <music> who i consulted the most about this was jim lehrer who has moderated more presidential debates than anyone in the history of televised presidential debates and when he of course was doing that for p._b._s. and so jim lehrer was the first person i offered the moderator part to in our debate and this was after talk to him over the course of several weeks about little factors in the debate and he thought about it for a couple of days because we had become real telephone the phone pals at this point about this project and he was invested in it thought about it for a few days and he finally called me back and said i can't do it because <hes> pity s has a rule against us appearing in fictional work and i wrote that rule and so uh that was <hes> as solloway a rejection as i could get and then actually i asked tim russert <hes> who was at n._b._c. and a dear friend of mine and he'd moderated presidential residential debates. He thought about it and realized he couldn't do it. He thought about for day and said i just can't do it. I can't violate this position. I have here with the viewer. I asked tom. Tom brokaw who i thought would be possibly available to do it because he was in the retirement the semi retirement stage and he said it to me instantly right away absolutely not i have never appeared in any fictional treatment at all and i've been asked to do it since the candidate of the robert redford movie and i refused every single time and so what i loved about tom was he was so clear and definitive about it. You know this should not be done and luckily for sawyer at that moment was out of the news business. He was actually on a faculty and i knew that and so we went to forest enforce could do it and this happens all the time. It happens in off broadway plays when you don't have enough budget or whenever you aren't able to get that thing you think you want and you end up with something else in this can also include <unk> an actor. You realize a certain point. Oh this is perfect. Forrest sawyer is actually perfect because he had all that gravitas of the anchorman because he was one and so everything was there and larsen. I've worked together at <hes> at n._b._c. and he called and said you know what we'd really like. If somebody somebody who's done this sort of thing before so would you do. It and i said okay sure. But how much do i have to pay ya and yet he was just removed enough from your daily consumption of television television news that he didn't jar anyone in fiction the way i think possibly tim could have or or tom. Brokaw certainly could have and jim lyric could have and so we're very very lucky with forrest i think and now he knows he was fourth choice. Welcome to hollywood. You know i don't yeah. I don't think i told him at the time and i think there's a statute of limitations on this particular knowledge. You can let it go at a certain point and <hes> you know with jim. Lehrer i had a very important moment moment in the preparation of this thing because one of the challenges of it visually as they're just locked down at a podium and they're stuck with these horrible stupid rules and i'm going to need to break the rules to make this more cinematic more watchable we could go on with this ritual and let the rules control how much you're going to learn about the next president of the united states we have a debate lincoln would have been proud we could junk the rules and issue that basically weekly as a challenge to jimmy like the message in that is i am so confident. I don't need the rules and the decision for jimmy. In that moment is uh-huh. If i let the rules go what's going to happen does allen all the have a plan. He's gonna work outside of the rules but if jimmy doesn't accept alan's proposal and and jimmy's going to look weak and so that's in there and i lay all this out to jim lehrer and it's my final discussion with him about actual content in the way the debate going to work and i say so you know allen all is going to say let's just junk the rules and do this the right way the way lincoln would do it and jimmy's going to say <hes> he's going to accept the challenge and say okay because if he doesn't accept the challenge he'll look weak and then we're going to just jump the rules and it'll be a much more free willing discussion and there's a pause and i'm waiting for jim lehrer to say that would be ridiculous and jim lehrer who has moderated more presidential debates than anyone alive says. I've been expecting someone to do that for years and i just think oh fantastic he knew right away. You know that that's a brilliant tactic and they should do it and <hes> and so i had that certification for that big break in the liturgy of debates learnt aren't you brought up something that josh and i recently talked about when <hes> chris matthews on <hes> in an episode of the west wing when he was doing his hardball grilling in an episode assode we were talking about this very collision of having a fictional setting for a nonfiction news person and i have to say that i the fall in the tom brokaw camp of things where it does army to see someone especially in a world like the west wing where we'd established sort of fictional all news outlets and news personalities like on capitol beat and on the taylor read show so i'm curious why i could see sort of two two ways into it because foyer so great and he does just naturally radiate everything that he's supposed to did you ever think about maybe having for sawyer coming into this part but using a different name no and so here's the behind the curtain thing about this particular arena. If you write a part for a news anchor in the script and you say we want to cast an actor. The actors who they send in in l._a. Are a mix of actors and local michael working anchorman who are only known in l. a. We used a couple of those local l._a. Anchor talents on different years of the west wing and it is very very rare in my experience of this to see an actor play an anchorman well. It is just a very strange challenge. I think in our culture because our audience knows the ways of anchorman so well well and so i can argue this either way i but i think someone like chris matthews in the small dose that he was used in in in that episode that i wrote where he's questioning alan. Alda is to me worth it because i know chris is going to get that part right. That's the number number one reason he's gonna get that part. Exactly right. I think in the west wing the taylor read part was done very well very very well but in general if you looked looked across to other shows that have done this kind of thing other movies when they cast someone to do this to me at sometimes like when someone's playing a baseball player and you go gee gee that's not really the way he would throw and i actually find chris matthews to be just about the perfect version of this because he's so idiosyncratic i think one of the biggest acting challenges you could have say. Let's cast someone to play chris. Matthews like that would be really really hard yeah. Have you ever played yourself self. I have i've played myself a few times and i always do something other than what i am in my show. It's something else. I think the closest assist i've come to doing the guy on my show was in curb your enthusiasm <hes> we're. We're larry david. <hes> asked me to do a bit and he kind of wrote it to me and so he knew exactly what he wanted me to do. I mean that's gotta be strange to be there as yourself but then also reading some i mean you you write your own scripts that you would deliver on air but now you're reading. Somebody else's script. It's not stranger than what i do every night. If we wanna slip into that for a second i do want to yeah. Is it a character that you're playing. When i started hearted anchoring shows that it was as just kind of a volunteer fill in and to me it was like you know when george plumpton would go and go to spring training with the new york yankees pitcher knitting and spring training or something you know i felt like that. I felt like this is just someone's inviting me into this odd experiment that i did not not asked to do and so i would go in there and pretend in my mind to be an anchorman and i'm still doing that. I am playing jack jack nicholson playing an anchorman in broadcast news and this still a fair amount of that in what i do on my m._s._n._b._c. show show and i always say i always say that i wish i was writing this stuff and handing it to alan alda or handing it to jimmy smits to go out there her and sit in that chair and do it instead of me and look that's what the debate episode is most of what you hear in that debate episode on both the democrat and republican publican side are things that i actually think about the world and what i do now is. I write those things in in the sad part for me about it. Is i have to say the myself myself. You did a tremendous job writing. This is quite a wonder. I think it is balanced an interesting and without feeling like a civics lesson it is in the as in the case the best west wing episodes of pretty substantive civics lesson. It was really tricky and <hes> what i always did you know when i was working in the senate and i was trying to move something through on the democratic side is i always listened always had to listen to the objections are had to listen to the other side and i would hear bob dole say something especially if he said something. Excuse me privately about the legislation i would think that is a legitimate objection to this. You know i still wanna do it for the following reasons but what he just said is not crazy crazy and you know when i was working in the senate we had republicans like arnold vinick in the senate they just had as alan says in his closing statement he just a believes less in government than jimmy does. He believes more in freedom and they were not the kind of republicans you see today. I don't know how i could write this debate today. I really don't because it would be one sided. The truth would be on one side and utter falsity would be on the other side god and it just be bad. It just be bad drama to watch when i was thinking of you writing this episode. I imagined somebody playing against themselves house. Yes that's exactly what i was doing and every once in a while i would paint myself into a corner and it'd be like a g. Jimmy doesn't have a comeback to this and that's the way it would be and that draft would go to the table and westering staff would read it and they would not necessarily be specific but what they'd be saying frequently early in the development of this script was i'm rooting for vinik too much vinegars too good so my republican was overwhelming the democrat in the early drafts of the debate and i couldn't see it but then when people would say i'd go home at night and i'd stare out and go oh i can give jimmy this. I can give him this and so the part. I did have to get beefed up. The part that had to be made stronger was the democratic part because the the republican part was actually the easiest side of of this for me to write. Do you think that that might be because there was more excitement. In the exercise of what you were talking about you know if you come in with a certain set of ideas sometimes it is more are exciting to try and articulate the idea that you don't think like to sharpen it but then maybe as a result that the other side wasn't getting as much energy well what's generally true especially in our west wing world are west wing writer's room. Is that the things that alan alda says in this debate are things that a lot of people had never heard before and and then there's just this incredibly easy and winning way in which the republican candidate arnold vinick says things that no republican has ever said for example when we talk about oil drilling an an warn the northernmost regions of alaska. I saw an oil well in the parking lot of oh mcdonald's in long beach just the other day the democrats saying we can't put oil wells in a place so remote that only animals will i'll see them. I wish we could put all our royal whales. There were no one will ever see them. It's the most persuasive possible way and the most human way he could've talked about it and so that's one of the ways in which the republican candidate was kind of overwhelming the debate because the things he was saying we're fresher than the things that the democratic candidate was saying because we've heard those kinds of things before and by the way the oil well in the mcdonald's parking lot ah i saw that oilwell in the mcdonald's parking lot in long beach when we were down there at the boeing factory shooting the c. seventeen of scenes things where jimmy smits is is that the c. seventeen factory which was one of the best location shoots of my life. That was just a fabulous place to visit also. I think that stuff goes into mcdonald shakes. I might be good that could that's an essential ingredient and i was gonna say just going back to that. Part about africa was a just reinforce. That was the first time i'd heard anything about taxation. In africa. I read that that really was fascinating and intriguing and well played and i can't imagine something something like that being discussed in the debate today well in the surprise of it was that the republican candidate who is normally presented as the heartless tax cutter who doesn't care about the social policy affected by the tax cuts stupidly as far as the debate audiences concerned says that the solution or one of the approaches approaches to poverty in africa is tax cuts he gets laughed at and then he takes you through an analysis at the end of which is completely undeniable denial but taxes can't raise any money if they kill the economy's so it turns out that the the tragic unintended consequence of our our good intentions toward africa are kinds is that we have encouraged those countries to lock themselves into a gruesome economic depression and it is filled with feeling and sympathy and hopes for impoverished african people and so there's a lot of turns in that and that's the kind of thing that was making west wing crew over time who were all were liberals would say. I really really liked this guy. I would vote for this guy and it was because he wasn't the republican without heart. He was using his heart to find a direction that was different from the direction that liberals found. I like vinegar rhetorical attack. He does that a couple of times. How many jobs would you create your first terms senator nunn and then he let's just sit there. You know almost as a gaffe for a moment before then explaining what he has to say kind of winning that take a rhetorical approach that he takes that i enjoyed yeah. It's <hes> there's another piece. That's <hes> only in the d._v._d. Version not net flicks where for sawyer asked them if they favor a moratorium on the federal death penalty and jimmy's answer is yes a one word answer and then allen's answer is no a one word answer it is i believe a republican governor who has imposed a moratorium on the death penalty in illinois congressmen. Would you favor a moratorium on the federal death penalty. Yes that's it. That's it okay senator. No the that's it. I think we've covered that one all right sir and the reason allen gave a a one word answer is he just saw jimmy give a one word answer and he recognized right away what just a strong tactic that was and he wasn't going to let jimmy have have that moment of the one word answer and and i learned that <hes> actually in my life <hes> working with senator daniel patrick hand who would frequently and venues news like meet the press and places like that give a one word answer the be a spot whereas just of very simple yes or no and it would always shock the momentum of the show because everybody's expecting more right there. It's disarming and it was disarming. It's honest it's powerful and so it's one of those things that i've always was a said you know every debater should find the moment where they just give a one word answer. There's a moment from a town hall that elizabeth warren did where she gave one word answer and it was sort of a viral moment from that and actually elizabeth warren is the modern counterpart that thought of most while while watching santos's answers in the debate. There's a moment where he says he says. Some people just want to say no and elizabeth warren in one of the primary debates recently and response to delaney. I think it was is it you know she said i don't understand why anybody does to all the trouble of running for president of the united states just to talk about what we really can't do and shouldn't fight for a couple of moments like that that felt like echoes from this you know from fourteen years ago clearly. There are things that you were looking at historically but have you found that you you can see this is how maybe had echos later on in the future well. The west wouldn't live debate is now all over the democratic presidential debates because they're debating aiding medicare for all right. That's what you smits proposed in the in the west wing live debate and that was just a personal favourite of my own because in those days as especially right through the obama years starting with the clinton years the democrats were always offering a kind of tortured hard to describe solution to getting a healthcare coverage which they would say was for everyone and all of those plans never were designed to cover everyone they always left out millions of people and the only plan that would ever cover everyone would be medicare for all and so jimmy gets caught up trying to defend his complicated plan really powerful powerful cross examined by allen all about that and it throws jimmy into doing something that was just a fantasy moment of mine which is just to say you know what forget about what my healthcare plan what i would really like to do you know because so much of what a politicians are doing up there is defending something they don't believe in because they think the the thing they believe in is too far out and will lose the votes and so they're left with this terrible job of defending something that they know is flawed and i wanted to see somebody in the moment live in the debate. Just make the decision. You know what i'm not going to try to fight these challenges to my plan because the challenges he's coming up with our actually accurate una tell you what i'd really like to do if i could so then a few years later barack obama is running for president and he says is at a certain point. If we were starting from the beginning i would go basically with medicare for all but since we're starting where we are we're going to do my plan and so barack. Obama was the first inheritor in my mind of of what was the jimmy smits position. Yeah it's fascinating. I i was wondering i watched how radical it would have been for someone for candidate in two thousand thousand five to say oh wildly what are we here's what would have been wildly radical and in my notion of the way this works the reviewers out there who are watching that with whom jimmy earns integrity by saying look. This is what i'm proposing because this is what i think can pass. Everybody understands stance that and then he says in an ideal world. Here's what i'd like to do. Everybody understands that and then he goes on and so. I believe that kind of answer gets more four points for honesty than he could ever get in the details of his policy answers trying to defend something that he believes in plus he gets the points of being able to point doubt structural problems in government. You know congressional gridlock is really the fault here not any reality about insurance plans or the cost of premiums liam's or anything like that. Could i ask you a few technical questions about the yes making sure so putting together. A live broadcast is so fundamentally different different in terms of the lighting and the directing and everything like that. I know alex graves direct to this. Did he have to learn an entirely new way of directing kind of multi-car that live multi cam directing. I've seen it before. Josh and i did a multi cam pilot years ago and what that director did and the way he sort of called out the shots. That's was completely different. Also guy had the ability he he knew that he was calling it live and it was being recorded but he'd be able to go back later and edit. That's true when you're actually directing directing alive. You know what you what you get and every time alex snaps. His fingers in the next shot goes if it's wrong. The audience is seeing grandparents down yeah so i'm a little less strict less than i used them. I'm gonna cut congress's veto and then. I'm gonna force them to get control bolles yeah. The only things that are comparable to the kind of directing alex was doing in these <hes> to live performances east coast and west coast are saturday night live and a sports because there's no editing you don't get to go back in and edit <hes> it's really happening and so it was directing unlike any directing that that alex had ever done and this was like sports because we had a trailer outside of the studio that we were shooting in and he was out there in the trailer trailer. He's not even in the same building where the actors arts very long walk away from there and he's just calling camera shots. That's all it is. There's no other function for the director. Once we're underway except saying you know camera one camera two camera three camera for <hes>. That's all it is and so it's unlike anything you've ever done an and so it's incredibly high pressure but for people who've actually done that for a living. It's much easier than the normal film directing that alex alex does and so it was a fascinating challenge to see them rise to and so you know we've rehearsed it enough that we know exactly when you're supposed to go to to this person that person on that person and if you watch closely and if you know we've rehearsed it you will watch the camera go sometimes a second too soon to someone someone who should be interrupting his way in an instead the camera lands on right before he's said something it it only happens a couple of times but you you know we could have gotten a pro who wouldn't have to know anything about the west wing really to sit there in the director's trailer and do this but alex did it. It was really brave of him to do it. I think it was great for us that he did it because having him there throughout our rehearsal process and thinking through all of the staging think of this with alex as opposed to someone i didn't know would have been i think much more disruptive for all of us and so we were really really lucky that alex was going to do that but that was an early discussion that we had privately john watson is <hes>. Do we need to go to an outside live tv director and <hes> one alex wanted to do it because he wanted the challenge. She wanted to jump off that cliff. We both just said well. That's what we should do but but you didn't need to have a different crew yeah. There was no virtually no crew from the show were there. There's a woman who you see hand microphone to allen in the middle of the peace. She's a pro she does that. She's at the oscars. She's at the she looked like a pro yeah. She's she's at all. These live events in l. a. That's her job rob. Everybody else was an expert live t._v. And luckily los angeles has experienced live crew because of the oscars the emmys golden globes things like that and so they're shots of the camera people on stage that get caught sometimes from those are people who are actually operating live cameras yeah. They were all operating cameras and those were all intended. What we wanted was when they break out of their podiums. We want to show you that. We're not set up for that. We're not ready for that and we also want to show you in effect that the director in the booth if you wanna think you know if you wanna pull back far enough to think about it. The director in the booth is what i'm watching because yeah i know how live tv works is. The director in the booth is deciding. I don't care how messy this is. I have to get this shot right now. I have to get a shot of jimmy right now. Speaking and i don't care who's standing behind him okay. We're going to take a quick break now and when we come back we'll have more with lawrence o'donnell and our talk about the debate <music>. The western weekly is sponsored by squarespace how we love squarespace. His squarespace is the engine behind our website. Squarespace is so easy to use and so easy to set up that if you have an idea that you want to put out there in the world you can get it up and running in minutes with squarespace site say you're an actor. Josh here and you wanna make a website. Josh molina dot com well josh molina lina dot com doesn't exist yet but it could go ahead sign up beat me to it. Oh man we're inviting trouble but you could travel josh by getting josh molina dot com set up and just making fan site dedicated to all of the ways in which a crushing josh you could do that with a squarespace site using one of their beautiful templates and the great thing is not only do you get a website through squarespace. You can also get a domain like josh molina dot com. 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Literati is super cute have already had books from literati sent sent to my niece and nephews and they loved it. I'm just going to play you a little bit of a reaction from my niece first of all. She's just excited by the box the forgot about the contents here. She is opening it and then when she opened up the box and saw what she got. This is what the reaction was. She was so excited. Oh yeah wow that's proof of purchase just right there that works that's because every litter box contains five books mailed to your kid or your sister's kid. That's right each box has a theme unlike the spirit of adventure or animal kingdom and it contains an exclusive piece of original art and a personalized note to your child every month you get to buy the books that you want to keep and any books that you don't wanna keep you can return. It's easy and it's free so for a limited time. Goto literati books dot com and use promo code west wing for twenty fifty dollars off your first box plus kids three and up get a special black light pen. This is better than any other offer that literati is making anywhere but to get it you have to go to literati books dot com and use the promo code west wing and you'll get twenty dollars off your first box plus the free block light pen for kids three up. That's literati. He books dot com promo code west wing. If you're a parent you know it's hard to find unique books for your kid. Get away from you know the usual suspects and find and some great children's books out there that you may be having discovered so far and now back to the show. I think of the director in this in this show as one of the characters i kind of love as viewer watching the director go all right. I don't don't care grab that shot. You know that was all intended. That's all very specifically scripted. That's great so that means. You've you've managed to write in both christmas. Yano and alex graves into an episode sued character. I've a question about the setup for the actors. I presume that alan and jimmy have teleprompters off camera that we cannot see. I was wondering how 'bout forrest sawyer where where is he getting. He was very good. Everybody was great yeah. <hes> forrest sawyer did not have a prompter as i recall <hes>. It's possible that we snuck one for forest but you know he was the one who i knew i knew nothing can go wrong with forrest sawyer because he's done this a million times lot. Nothing about this live tv. That's going to throw him nothing. <hes> he's going to learn his lines and by the way he showed up knowing his lines for the first rehearsal. You knew them <hes> so had it down cold. Tom speaking of teleprompters when we spoke with l. and all the back end season six episode on in god we trust he had some things to tell tell us about this episode should programs that were written. The story lines that were developed were so good and i had that experience. It's still stands stands out for me. As one of the happiest times i've had acting which was when jimmy smits and i did the live presidential debate that was an extraordinary <hes> time for me because it was almost like an improvisation in that there was a script but we didn't have time to learn the script because they kept changing it. The time we rehearsed ahead a new of few speeches in there so the only way we can do it and stick to what lawrence o'donnell had written and it was it was a wonderful wonderful wonderful ridden debate the only way we could stick to a wedge to use teleprompters so the problem i had with that was i couldn't read the teleprompter at the distance and that it was placed from me so the character had not established wearing glasses so i couldn't put glasses on. I had to go get fitted for contact contact lenses which i'd never worn in my life and contact lenses are an abysmal torture for anybody. Who's never done it. You gotta stick your finger in your eye and is really doesn't didn't feel good to see your finger coming toward your eyes. So now we're going to do totally league. Live television. Show not live on tape. Live live where it's going coming out right then to millions of people and five minutes before we're going on the air live. I'm still trying to stick my finger in my i i couldn't do it. I couldn't i couldn't face get an inch away and i'd stop and meanwhile if i don't get that piece of glass in they're not going to be able to read the lot is no show so there was a little excitement about that show for me but it was almost improvisational because on the fly we were making the dialogue log worked some of which we weren't that familiar with they did a remarkable job especially given that they had just a couple of weeks to work with it and the volume of material that they had to repair really is an impressive feat well. It's the longest you know west wing script in history and it's nothing but speech right so you can imagine what those pages looked like. They were just these black columns of dialogue going all the way down the page each of them had multiple runs of dialogue that covered more than one page and so they had two weeks of rehearsal basically and this was very difficult because as we are an up and running series we need them in all of these episodes so time had to be carved out of the episodes that were being shot. Jimmy me scenes had to be loaded up so that we could get him days off. Allen scenes had to be loaded up so that we could get him days off where they could just rehearse spend the entire day together gather and john wells knew right away. This has to be off campus. This is a special project. I can't have them rehearsing. You know in another building on the warner brothers lot because it will get interrupted. It won't be considered sacred and he wanted to send that message so he got us base off campus in burbank <hes> rehearsal hall that we began dan at and then eventually moved downtown because we use this studio in downtown l._a. Which was then a relatively new studio. <hes> for the actual debate and when we got downtown for the first time we saw what was about the eighty percent finished construction of the debate stage and it's one of those those moments in the preparation process that changes everyone because you see it and you realize oh. This is really real. We're really doing this and you could see. It changed the actors. They knew this requires in every sense a presidential level of performance out of them <hes> that no other episode code of t._v. is ever going to ask of them. They're always going to be able to do it again. In any other episode you know not here no asking for another take. It's all one one hundred percent on the line just the way it is in a presidential debate. Did you enjoy watching it filmed or were you getting a brick. I wished that i could have of the audience experience and not be stuck in the truck because for me what it was and what allen thought it was as he said to me afterwards this it was just a wonderful play that we just did and i wanted to be in that theater audience and so for the first one i was in the truck pretty much the whole time for the second one. I decided to cheat my way out into that audience to try to experience that and so i got a a version of of the audience experience but it's certainly the way the people felt who were in the room. They really felt like they're in a very special place and by the way there was a huge amount of pressure sure on tickets in l._a. Of bigwigs who wanted to be it was just like a real presidential debate where all these you know power types wanna be in the room for the the presidential debate and so that room was packed and the audience had its own energy and you know one thing we didn't do was we didn't rehearse the audience. That was what i was wondering because they have specific cues yeah. I know it seems like they have accused and they don't they don't they don't i wondered the same thing and the weird thing is forced. Forrest sawyer job is to tell the audience to not respond and yet alex graves and i want the audience to respond. Okay want that dynamic in the show and so we left it we kind of left it to the audience and it's all organic you know what happens. They're very clever ever love it. If i had to. I wouldn't leave it to the audience. I would say this is well. I mean for a bunch of reasons including. I wanna make sure if if we're going to have applause i wanna make sure the republican gets applause and the democrat gets applause. You know in in the edited version. Actually the republican ends up getting less applause than the democrat it. It felt real though to me it felt to me like the audience was responding to what they were hearing. Yes it was it really was but you know there's the moment were vinik. Says headstart doesn't work the whole audience goes. Oh yes yes. They really did that. They thought the devil just spoke. I love that reaction because it was so from the gut got. It was like it was what did i just hear. It wasn't a boo. It wasn't applause. It was groaning with a kind of revulsion in a way of what what they just heard hurt and then vinnie goes on to tell you the truth about headstart by great four and five headstart graduates do no better academically than their equally poor classmates who didn't attend head start and that's something that you never hear and democrats never discuss but jimmy. I had an answer to that head start does ray scores in the early years and then we let them slip that part especially felt like the chessboard to me yes where both of with them were going at each other with everything they had and you really have to sort of disagree with yourself in a coherent articulate way. That's one of my favorite moments in the episode you know and a lot out of the some of the the comebacks you know i would find them later. A particular exchange would end with jimmy and it would sit that way for a draft or two and then i'd realize his own weight allen's going to come back to that and i'd throw that in and then i might discover the next week. Oh i just realized jimmy has come back to that too do so you. This thing would have been impossible to write you know just kind of in one sitting because the argument is with yourself because it's it's one section of my brain arguing with the other section of my brain and so you have to let it sit and let the whole brain just kind of live with it for awhile and then you go. Oh there's one more thing. I have one more thing. I can throw in here some of my best responses to things that josh says in the podcast star things that i've come up with three weeks after the episode came out oh sure a- and we usually go back and put them in well. You know i got extra time to write this which was important. John wells carved out time for me and pulled pulled me out of the rotation of the filmed episodes so that i can do this and i was literally playing with lines on the sunday that we were shooting it and had something i i wanted to give to alan was really of that weekend's news and i ran by him and he just went. You know i i don't know and he wasn't it wasn't that he was complaining. As an actor in this last minute he was looking at it and going. I think we have enough here and he was absolutely right. I wanted to add like two lines to a segment of the debate that was already exactly where it should be where it should begin and end and and he was right about that and we didn't do it because he was. He was thinking you know years from now. They're going to cut it out of items netflix. He knew i waste your time. One of my favorite bits of dialogue or sequences is the discussion of the word liberal and whether it's a dirty word now and that's where we really see santos sort of picking up steam as he takes off the that liberals have made over the years and social security and civil rights and voting rights act someone that leading up to his saying so when you try to hurl that word liberal let my feet as if it were something dirty something to run away from something that i should be ashamed of it won't work senator because i will pick up that label and i will wear it as a badge of honor the i love that moment i felt like this probably going in was a line he he figured he'd use if the opportunity showed and it plays organically but also as the kind of thing where like maybe vinik fell into a little bit of a trap there well in the stage directions of it and you know the the stage directions of the script had more more internal thoughts of the actors than anything i've ever written and so in the stage directions of this it makes it very clear. Jimmy doesn't have anything planned for this and in fact jimmy's trying to get away from it. He's trying to run away to change the subject from what alan alda has just thrown this liberal thing but what you be recognizes and he does this repeatedly is. If you get me cornered i have a choice. It's a very simple choice. I can look weak or i can look strong and the weak move is to get away from it and that was what we saw in the healthcare part where he's got me cornered and i can look weak by clinging to the wreckage of of my defensive my health care plan or i can just say you okay. This is what i really think and this for me. In the script was one of those moments where forty years of democrats running being away from the word liberal was going to end with jimmy smits right here in right now and he was going to bring it up but now that you've cornered him here we you go you know we're going to have this fight and that is the piece of the debate that has been seen by more people than any other part of this debate because that has been viral on social media. Jimmy's defensive liberalism for ten years now and just it's. It's non stop. It's everywhere. It was inspired. It wasn't word for word but it was inspired by what i would hear. <hes> senator daniel patrick moynihan say in upstate new york in republican districts where people would throw the word liberal at him and he would say yes. I am a liberal just like franklin delano roosevelt and he would take you through what liberalism awesome had done. It also gave me that exchange were allen thinks he's won by saying a republican president entered slavery and jimmy has to say a liberal republican what happened to them. They got run out of your party and that was kind of a cry from the heart from me me because i worked with liberal republicans when i was in the senate in the early nineties and they're all gone. Did you ever think it would breach the state. We're at now no no on predicted any of this this. This was look when i was working there. Mitch mcconnell was perfectly reasonable guy. That's how long ago while people are watching watching this episode on d._v._d. I wanted to encourage people to also watch the little feature read about the making of this episode. That's a d._v._d. Extra one of my favorite moments it's in that is <hes> at the end jimmy smits and alan alda talk about how the experience had bonded them a little bit more because they hadn't had many shared scenes at at that point and then they suddenly did these two weeks of intense rehearsals. Did you feel that way with the cast or maybe with alex that doing this episode and sort of having these high stakes changed your relationship to the other folks who are involved in the making of it. It just intensified where we were. We were already very close and now we were in this really leeann tenths foxhole together and we all knew the stakes and we're all set up four gigantic failure and the actors were set up for the worst kind of failure because because they were going to be the ones out there and if something went wrong they were going to feel the heat of it and that's just enormous pressure. I think you know they probably just surrendered rendered their fates to the live gods and it was intense and it was a deeply personal experience for all of us and we kind of didn't want got to end because it broke the the cycle of episodic television production. You know we were off on our own doing this little art exercise. You know it's climbing a mountain mountain. You know what's your take on this incredibly risky climb together as a group you do that and there's a hug that comes from that that lasts a lifetime when i see jimmy when i see allen. This is very close to the top of our minds. I remember feeling both relieved and very left out that i wasn't in this episode yeah. That's that's the way you're supposed to feel that you got the night off. You thought that was being broke. My heart that this episode was as prominent as it was that season in the west wing and it got all of this promotion and it didn't have martin and it didn't have allison and that part it just broke my heart that we can't have everybody in it and so that was hard that was really really hard to live with but it was just a fact of life that we had to go ahead head with and i'll admit to being a little bit miffed on the rewatch to notice that the title sequence included all channel with janney mccormick spencer whitford smith's and gene. How was that list decided. I have no idea i'm outraged. If you watch carefully you'll notice that they played with the title sequence so that they could get it out of of the way so that it wasn't running over the debate. They ran it in a different way than they usually do. And then the writer and director credits appeared over a black screen lean a right before the debate really got underway and that had to be manipulated so it wouldn't get in the way of the live tv debate. Josh i think your credit in the opening being <hes> just got cut from the netflix version. It could be yeah that must be. I'm telling you anything's possible. Also i wanna point out that there are believe over twenty broadway musicals that closed after opening night and you guys ran two performances so yeah there you go film about one of my favorite details that moment of the end screen with the executive the producer credits and everything that comes afterwards just being against a black screen because it's just this little reminder. Normally we get the still there in the end credits still from the episode but because it was live. There's no chance to put a still up. I just thought that was a nice little reminder of what we've just seen yeah. It's a one off in every way down to every detail. All of it and you know all that stuff had to be rethought. You know it. Someone's job to have that photograph up there. I don't have to go well so we're not doing that right. Nah just go to it'll be black like everything you know and john wells at i and alex every one of these things would come up and you'd realize at the last minute things like that. They could use my head shot lawrence. Thank you so much for for spending more time with us and talking to us about. This episode is a really special one. I think in the whole series and i'm so glad we got to talk you about it. I could go on and on about it as i think i've demonstrated. Thank you very much so that's it for this episode. Next week will be back for more on the debate with our special guests debate commentators ron maclean and beth myers thanks as is always macneice margaret miller nick song and additional thanks to learn to donal alan alda and julie mendy. Thank you for lending us your copy of the season season seven d._v._d. Of the west wing we needed that and thanks to radio topi n._p._r. Rex for including us in their exclusive collection of forward word thinking podcasts about what you can find out more at radio toby dot f._m. Okay okay. What's next radio <music>.
07-09-20 Cultivating and preserving fish populations
"Welcome to native America calling from Studio Forty nine in Albuquerque I'm Tara Gatewood. Different tribes operate fisheries for cultural economic development in the Pacific northwest the nisqually tribes efforts include decades of watershed restoration to help. Salmon runs the Muscalero Patchy Tribes Rainbow Trout hatchery distributes thousands of fish to dozens of local tribes in the southwest for recreational purposes. Join us as we take a look into tribally run fisheries and hatcheries right after national native news. This is national. Native News Antonio Gonzalez the US. Supreme Court ruled Thursday five to four. That Oklahoma did not have authority to prosecute citizen for crimes on reservation boundaries. The eighty six page opinion by Judge Neil gorsuch upholds treaty promises of Indian land in Eastern Oklahoma in the case, mcgirt versus Oklahoma GMC mcgirt seminal and Muskogee Creek was convicted of several felony sex crimes and Oklahoma court. He asserted the crimes occurred within the boundaries of the Muskogee reservation and that the state. State had no jurisdiction over him. State Court denied his petition and was affirmed by an appeals court. Thursday's High Court decision holds. Congress did not formally undo. The muskogee reservation land remains reservation for purposes of Federal Criminal Law. mcgirt potentially could be retried in federal court along with Patrick Murphy Murphy Muskogee, Creek was convicted of murder in. Oklahoma State Court and is seeking to be heard in federal court, asserting the crime occurred within reservation boundaries, and the state had no jurisdiction. The US House Energy and Commerce Committee is exploring how Indian country is being impacted by Cova nineteen witnesses tell lawmakers the pandemic is showing how important broadband access needs are met. Laszlo has a story from Washington. Infection rates remain high in native communities, which is why telemedicine is essential, and despite President Donald Trump's call to reopen schools, many will be closed. This fall and native students have struggled plugging mal at home because most don't have Internet access lack of broadband in Indian country, ripples across everything, according to Navajo. Nation President Jonathan as he says well. This administration has upended regulations for its own pet projects. It's neglected native Americans. Americans this weekend must set aside certain policies regulations to Villa Wall between Mexico in us. I'm sure we can do the same tier in tribal communities, California Democratic, congresswoman and as you says Congressional Republicans need to stand up to the president in order to get him to write these wrongs. These are not issues that we don't know how to redress. It's a matter of political will. Congress is out for the next two weeks, but when they're back, infrastructure is expected to be the talk of the town through tribal leaders are hoping native needs become a central part of those debates for national. Native News on that. Laszlo in Washington. Wisconsin Attorney General Josh Call recently announced the formation of a missing and murdered indigenous women force. That's good news to a state legislator who helped author, the bill to bring about the task force can crawl reports. There was a meeting unlocked locked flambeau last fall to announce the effort to form a task force, democratic state Senator Janet. Beauty of Delta was joined by state representatives, Beth Myers and Amanda Stock at the Meeting Representative Jeff Mersal. I've also cosponsored the bill. Billy says after the measure was introduced in the legislature at died there, so she was pleased to see call bringing it back. I'm thrilled that the attorney general agrees with quite a few people in the native community. Community and law enforcement throughout the area that we need to find a way to understand what what this problem is, says they need more data to understand the scope of the problem and to face the issue. Getting the right people on the task force is important. What's significant is representation not only by tribal communities themselves, but by women who have been exploited and I know that there are women out there who are brave and we'll come forward and help us with with their stories in the information. American women are murdered and sexually assaulted at rates as high as ten times, the average in certain counties in the United States, that was can crawl reporting and Antonio Gonzales. National Native News is produced by colonic. Broadcast Corporation with funding by the corporation for public broadcasting. Support by the American Indian Higher Education Consortium. Working to ensure tribal colleges and universities are included in our higher education system Info on distance learning at a I h. e c Dot, Org. Support by Mitchell Hamlin School of law in Saint Paul Minnesota. You can earn your J. D. and specialize in India law in a way. That fits your life. There are full-time and part-time options both on campus and online more at Mitchell, Hamlin Dot Edu. Native won the native American Radio Network. This is native America. Calling I'm Tara Gate. Would before we start our conversation about fisheries? Today were turning to some breaking news. The United States Supreme Court handed a significant victory to Oklahoma tribes in a case involving criminal jurisdiction on tribal land. Officially, the court ruled in favor of GMC mcgirt a seminal. Muskogee man who was convicted of child rape in an Oklahoma State Court the Supreme. Court agreed with his challenge to that conviction that he should have instead been tried in federal court. He argued that the crime occurred within Muskogee. Creek reservation boundaries in that they were not ever disestablished by Congress. To understand this ruling further, we now connect Lawrence. Kansas to talk with Sarah here she is a professor in women. Gender and Sexuality Studies in the School of Public Affairs and administration at the University of Kansas, and she is a citizen of the Muskogee. Creek Nation Sarah. Thank you for joining us today, welcome. Thank you for having me. In Sarah when we last spoke, we were on the other side of this and today. The Supreme Court handed its decision tells a little bit about what this decision is saying what it means. You know I am folks are talking about the fact that it's eighty six pages long? which would suggest that there's some? Ambiguity and and the treaty or that it needed a lot of analysis, but the the ruling is quite logical and very straightforward, and that is. Congress never does establish the boundaries of the creek reservation and it's. It's really as simple as that the justice. Gorsuch is clear that that's the standard explicit language. It doesn't exist therefore the reservation. been disestablished. In. Let's focus in on Gorsuch and the way. The decision came in What do you think went with liberal justices? I'm sorry. Gorsuch starting with the liberal justices thoughts on that. Oh well you know I, it's interesting, because Gorsuch was actually A. Gorsuch was the native I'm sorry. The National Congress of American Indians supported his appointment to the court, because gorsuch had a history in the tenth circuit of finding in favor of tribes, and so when he was brought out to be the nominee for the next seat. National Congress of American. Indians did support that because they anticipated that he would be friendly to tribes on the Supreme Court as well. In now that we're seeing this What are your thoughts? Well it's it's not just a victory That would be sufficient, but it's written in a way to be very very clear for future lit against about what the standards are, and what what history means when you're analyzing a treaty so we'll have long long lasting impact far beyond Oklahoma far beyond the creek nation. The language of this decision is very very It's it. It's getting more saw it it. It's very clear that the broken promises don't change the law and the law is that the treaties stay in effect until Congress says otherwise been so immediately. What changes? So the very clear change we'll be to Federal Criminal Authority and so within the reservation boundaries Crimes involving Indians will, will be. Shared between the tribe itself as well as the federal government, so it takes Oklahoma out of those cases where you have Indian victims or Indian defendants, it doesn't change anything. For the majority of residents of the reservation because non-indian on on India crime will still be a state matter but what it will do is change jurisdictional framework for federal and tribal authorities into anything that really stood out to you reading the opinion. Oh there's so many good points I went through and started highlighting them. I think that the the the the ending of his first sort of paragraph he says today we are asked whether the land these treaties promised remains Indian reservation for purposes of Federal Criminal Law because Congress has not said otherwise. We hold the government to its word. In how can that be applied or just thinking about all the lawyers who, in the next coming months, Maven, be calling on this decision or maybe in rethinking the way, things have gone so far. What are some things you see these dominoes going? Well I think it will affect any ongoing litigation regarding reservation boundaries this This is written broadly enough that they can apply the principles here to other reservation boundary cases, but more importantly, it really does again affirm that this treaty promises. cannot be broken through ambiguous language, or actions on the part of non-indians. It has to be explicitly done by Congress and so that the in terms of any treaty rights litigation This will have an impact on the analysis, those kinds of cases. In so this one definitely unique in in terms of where jurisdiction lied, and there was a lot of pushback from the state in anything. You're thinking of some of those arguments that they presented and now seeing what the Supreme Court has come out with. What would you like to say? Well, it's interesting because gorsuch actually sets up at the opinion the way he's written it going one by one, basically through all of Oklahoma's arguments, and knocking them down one by one including sort of last minute argument that that Oklahoma put in at the recent more recent oral arguments that it's not a reservation it's it's dependent Indian communities, which is a new argument that we hadn't heard before, and he just explains how none of that you know none of those. Oklahoma arguments overcome the principle of the promises made in the treaty. In Sarah. Something we also heard is if this decision goes away at did all kinds of people are going to be released? What are your thoughts on that? that there's nothing to indicate that people will be released one thing that's interesting. Is that if there wasn't a native person or creek person who committed a crime on a reservation and is in state, court, you know you're you're taking your chances. If you want to argue that it should have been in federal court, Federal Federal sentencing guidelines can be much stricter than state guidelines, so it's not necessarily a guarantee that all folks all. All Creek folks that are are in Oklahoma right now are excited to see what the federal government might offer to them. and there are other provisions from other cases that limit the ability to serve apply things retroactively to people who already convicted and imprisoned, so there may be a few cases, but I think that it has been overstated that we're going to be releasing all these criminals into the into the state. I don't think that's accurate. And so what happens Jim Juicy mcgirt now. You know that's a great question I was talking to a few folks that today It's really going to be up to the federal prosecutors To what the next steps are. I don't anticipate. He will just simply be released, or if he is released, he'll be immediately taken into custody, but I can't speak to what the plans are for federal prosecutors in this case in sued. This also connects to the Patrick Murphy Case teller folks. How does connect in your thoughts are now. Sure where was exact same legal question right? It was it was the exact same legal question. Does the reservation still exist and Murphy actually on death row? So for his you know. His case was almost more urgent, but we only had eight justices heard that case last year, and apparently was a tie because we didn't have an issue, we didn't have an opinion issued in the meantime. Then gorsuch he had to recuse himself. Did recuse himself from that case because he was a conflicted out, but mcgirt was a state case so he was able to sit on that case so basically they also issued today decision Murphy. That's less than a paragraph long, basically saying mcgirt. because Murphy. Wins wins the case as well under this analysis. Into Major Crimes Act. Tell us how this also comes into play with this decision in anything to just clear up with folks. Sure so the Major Crimes Act was passed back in the nineteenth century and late nineteenth century, and what it says is that the federal government has criminal authority over serious crimes on the reservations. Of course, the tribes dot consent to that intrusion. Nonetheless, that is the law, so what that means is, if you have a crime committed by Indian or against an Indian Indian country, which includes reservations, the federal government does have the authority to prosecute those crimes, and This tribe also assures concurrent jurisdiction when the defendants are Indians or when the non-indian as committing domestic violence, which is the newer. Newer Provisions but essentially it takes the state out of the equation when it comes to prosecuting those kinds of crimes in Sarah. We got a minute before break and I know that news reports are probably being written now. Some are already up just to keep things clear, and so people don't get misled by headlines. What do you want people to know the fact of this the facts of this decision? Well, the facts are the facts. are I. Think there's an over I. think there's some hyperbole in the media we see all the time that's going to give the resort give of eastern Oklahoma to try that's hardly accurate it will not affect the vast majority of people that live and and and run businesses and within the boundaries of the reservation. The tribe doesn't have jurisdiction to late what non-indians do on Non Indian land? will not have that kind of drastic change. What is? Going to be kicked off their land and what he's going to be, business is going to be taken away from them. There will be some you know implications, maybe outside of the criminal context but I think at this point. It's too soon to say what those might be. We'll Sarah dear. Thank you so much for joining us today and you know this is pretty interesting to be on this side of things. When we were covering this through the days the months here on native America calling in to get to this point where we see with this decision, becomes now. We get to see what happens with all of this. want to let folks know of the native American journalists. Association has also put out. More information on how to understand interpret, and even report on this very story We're going to be back. We'll get into fishing coming up after the show coming up after the break, but stay with us. Maybe you have some thoughts on this opinion to go ahead and put it on. Our facebook tweeted to us one, eight, hundred nine, or put it right on our website to hang tight. Good communication with your healthcare provider can make a big difference in the carry receive. Being an advocate for your own health can take some work will talk with medical experts on how to talk to your healthcare providers to get the care you need. We hope you can join us on the next native America calling. Support for this program provided by the American Indian, higher, education consortium, the collective spirit and unifying voice of thirty seven tribal colleges and universities, as we learn how to cope during the current pandemic, a heck salutes the many tribal colleges and universities, offering distance learning to keep our communities safe information on a tribal college or university near you at a H.. E., C. Dot Org. Thanks for tuning in you are listening to native America Calling Tara Gatewood and now we switch to are scheduled program of on fisheries. Native Fisheries help stock waterways with species of fish that might not be able to sustain their populations without help. This could be due to environmental changes, HABITAT, loss, overfishing, or encroachment by invasive species tribes like the Navajo nation and the muscular Apache nation in New Mexico and Arizona Operate Hetero for Rainbow Trout, a fish that's not indigenous to the area there mainly for recreational purposes, Pacific Northwest Tribes Miss Tribal work to restore watersheds and surrounding lens to boost. Boost populations of Salmon, which is an important cultural resource for the rest of this hour will hear from tribes about what kind of work they're doing to restore and maintain fish species, and you can join us to. How does your tribe maintain? Maybe even protect local fish? Maybe you don't know how much work to keeping fish in rivers and lakes, and would like to know more while you're also welcome to call into an esque way. Join US by calling one, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight. That's also one eight hundred nine nine native. WE'RE GONNA go to Moscow Harrow. Nation in new, Mexico, we have we Bolin, and she is a manager of the Mescalero. Tribal Fish Hatchery, and she is Muscalero Apache our pleasure to have her here. Welcome Shelly showing. Yes good morning. Thank you for. Giving me this time to share a little bit about the Mescalero trauma fish hatchery into. Tell us what exactly goes on there. Well, the Mescalero, tropical fish hatchery has a a history. It used to be It was established in nineteen, sixty, five as the MESCALERO. National Fish Hatchery, and it was run by the US fish and wildlife, service. at that time they were wearing both trout and the he'll out. But because of fires, sequence fires which resulted in floodings and massive fish kills. The hatchery closed in two thousand. The facility was deeded back to the Mescalero Patchy Jibe. And at that time. That tribes in the South West, needed the the fish for their recreational fisheries programs several tribes and Pueblos came together to form the Southwest Travel Fisheries Commission, which we are a part of we're part of the mets. Pack time this facility and we're all part of the Southwest Tribal Fisheries Commission. So the together. the southwest trial of fisheries. Commission Mesko Pastime type but the hatchery back in business in two thousand four. and we re Arabia Chow. In socially, are they? you know a part of the tribe story. They have a cultural connection. not that I know of Apaches is traditionally. Ramo Chow fish or are not. They were introduced to the tribe so we because since nineteen sixty five. That's mainly what it's been I know. Tribal members enjoy fishing now and eating fish rainbow trout but not traditionally. But this has become an economic resource. In what do you think about you know helping the tribe out this way and even helping area tribes? Yes we as part of the southwest travel fisheries. Commission we deliver fish provide fish for nineteen tribes, member tribes of the commission which exist within new. Mexico Arizona Colorado We've delivered grandma's house far as San Carlos, Arizona southern Ute Colorado. so the fish that we provide for them Rainbow Trout. Helps them their economies with a recreational fishing. In so maybe people don't know how this all works, and let's start with that process and folks. If you WANNA join going, give us a ring. One, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight is the number. Where does all start? Where do these eggs come from? And then what happens next go shelly. So we get our eggs from pricier year from Bruce, doc facilities, the fish and Wildlife Service. provides us with about one hundred and fifty thousand, the two hundred thousand eggs twice a year, our last shipment of eggs. We received an April, so they're about two and a half two and a half months old. And we incubate than we used to receive them as eggs. We put them in our incubation trays until they hatch, and then about after seven to ten days after they hats then we put him in several Two of our tanks that are provided for just for the The called Elephants Alvin size after they hatch. So we put them in there, and then we grow them out inside a tank house covered inside tank house until they reach about maybe four to five years, and at that time their immune. Since how have built up there? They're able to Stand the outside, so then we start grading them separating them and moving them outside. To our concrete racelis. In so when you are moving them to another tribe, does that happen? Oh, we have a large fish chuck, and actually we've been using. We've had the older chucks that we've had issues with, but until recently last year we received a brand new peterbilt. This truck, which has eight tanks, which we can hold a total of twenty one hundred pounds of fish. So we have a brand new chocolate. We're really proud of and so we can take that on our long distance delivery for local deliveries. We have a smaller transport trailer that we We can take through Mescalero. In, socially water smooth things that are just plain interesting in understanding how all of this works anything more you want to share. Yes, it's it's exciting when we are able to deliver the fish to other tribes, and they see they're. They're getting especially when we have the bigger ones closer to the trophies. Is You know we have right now? We have when we did sample length. Just recently we found that we're having sixteen inch and seventeen inch fish in a raceway, and they really thrive on covered our cover grace ways until about a couple of years ago, all of race races were open, and we have a lot of problems with great, the great blue herons picking it our fish. We didn't realize how much those great blue herons were taking from hurting the economy. Until We started getting. We did A. Estimate of how much we were losing, and it was a lot, so we we worked with a got them hatching maintenance funding, and we were able to get canopies and the southwest tribal. Fisheries Commission also helped us they purchased the canopies so now most of our race ways that are covered and that helps prevent against predators, picking at our fish, and they really seem to thrive in that. Well it's so interesting I wonder how many people are rethinking that time. They went fishing. And now they're hearing a little bit about how that fish gets to that. Place your favorite fishing hole. Anything you WANNA share. Maybe there is a tribal hatchery than you are quite proud of. Maybe you worked at and just explaining all of this go ahead and give us a ring. One, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four eight. Is the number also here with us today out of Gallup. New Mexico is Glenn Shelby? He's the vice chairman. Ford the Southwest Tribal Fisheries Commission, and he's also a fish biologist for the Navajo nation, our pleasure to have him here Glenn Welcome. good morning Thank you for this this opportunity. In Glen, just hearing how the Fisher brought to our communities or either shared through tribes, more different areas of the country. Would you like to share that people may not understand. Well just the there is a lot of work that goes into creating these these recreational fisheries You know on Navajo We also have a fish hatchery located in until a new. Mexico that that we have been operating since since nineteen eighty three and there is a lot of work that goes into to raising these fish to to provide these these recreational fisheries. In, so you're a fish. Biologist tells a little bit about some of the way the species work in things to consider especially you know being in desert climates. Tell me more. Yeah being in the southwest, and then a a desert like environment You know it provider, it gives of issues for fish. Some some of the issues now. We're facing change drought. and that's really affecting the amount of water and the amount of habitat that is suitable for a lot of our native, her native species and then they also face competition and predation from. Non. Native species whether that's been through accidental introductions or intentional introductions non native species do because problems for Our native are native fish species. In so understanding that the Rainbow Trout in some areas are are new to the area. What kind of considerations Um need to be? Put into play or and I guess to? How are they adapting? Go ahead. You know. They've they've been being brought to now since the fifties and sixties. from the by the US fish, and Wildlife Service to provide those recreational fisheries and they do well in our lakes, and they are in some of our dreams. we manage our streams now for our native fish, so we don't put any non native fish into our streams. We strictly stock those until the lakes to provide recreational fishing We have done projects on one of the projects we have done the last few years, or as we did. Some non native Brown trout removal This is a multi agency conservation effort working with the US fish and wildlife. Service over about a three year span to remove non native. Brown trout from a creek in the Jessica Mountains Whiskey, Creek, in order to help populations of native who had suckers. And since we've done that now, we're so we're starting to see the benefit of of removing those trout and we're starting to see editor populations of our native fish. Into more on the drought because I knew a lot of people have to say on when it comes to thinking about drought how it affects our environment. What kind of things do you have to do differently when a drought is happening? you know during a drought? You know there may be lakes that do not have sufficient water or water of high enough. Water quality to to be able to support fish even seasonally so before we start late, you know we have to monitor that water quality. You ahead of time and make sure one or two those water levels. to make sure that those lakes are going to be able to support fish. In Chile. Do you have a take on that? When we talk about sure that things are going the way they need to. During a drought anything you WANNA share. Oh yeah like with a lot of southwest tides that that that have their recreational fishing or Facilities trout rearing facilities fissuring facilities? Were affected by the drought, and we are seeing that because of the loss because of the loss of our. GOING DOWN each year. We noticed that, so we're trying to trying to work with that trying to fix things and see what we can do because we weren't currently using all sixteen race ways that we have, but because of the water supply going down, we've had to close down about two of them. So it is affecting us. When you race, we go hidden to find them. Okay, we have a sixteen concrete race ways outside, and which five springs come together, and the waters go through our insight tank house, and then they go to the outside race ways the outside races where we hold our our five inch and Baker Rainbow Trout, so. There's like up to you know to. Forty four thousand rainbow trout per per raceway, and the water just trickles down, and then eventually goes to a settling pond outside the hatchery, and then the clean water. We'll go to a creek nearby. Thank you for that and Glenn I. Know a lot of the work that are biologist do is seeing how things balanced together. Are there any specific threats to Rainbow Trout that you'd like to talk about? you know they? They don't see a lot of threats. Be Non native here. you know so. They don't really have anything really to worry about than than water quality you know so. The threats that trout are are more based on water quality. In, so the other ones that are in the water anything you can share. Is there anything that is endangered works to restore their populations? Anything you WANNA share Glen. Yeah one of the the programs that art department at Navajo is is PARTNERING WITH IS The San Juan River recovery and implementation program working with Other partners Hickory a- southern new. Mountain, new State of New Mexico state of Colorado it's a big partnership us fish and Walleye service to restore populations, a razorback suckers on the in the San Juan River and so our our contribution to that program is we operate a fish passage to monitor native fish coming through moving up the river. and then we also grow out. razorback suckers at in some ponds in northern new. Mexico and then every October, we stock those razorback suckers into into the San Juan River so it's just a good example of of the partnerships that tribes have with with different agencies and working for these these conservation efforts. In so Glenn. We got you on the line. The southwest tribal fisheries. Commission tells a little bit about that and their role. Yes so the the mission of the Southwest Tribal Fisheries Commission, is to advance tribal self determination and tribal stewart's stewardship of fisheries resources to the professional development and support of tribal resource management programs We currently consists of nineteen southwestern tribes. and Muscalero tribal hatchery is a big part of of the fisheries. Commission but we also provide chaining opportunities for member tribes We make sure all the member. Tribes are aware of of different funding opportunities anytime there may be an issue we bring. The commission brings member tribes together with other partners such as trout unlimited You know to see if there's any way we can collaborate on any projects so so basically. The commission is just we're trying to move forward. Provide advocacy needed to obtain funding, support and tangible. Services Technical Assistance. you know sharing ideas between tribes, and things like that, and if anybody does want to connect, where should they go glen? Yeah we have a website, it's s w key FC dot org. we have a law information home. You can see all of our members there and you can learn more about the the selfless Trout Fisheries Commission of their at our website. All right well, thank you for that. We'll continue with their conversation here, but you are also invited. Go ahead and join us. At one, eight, hundred, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight is a number. That's a little bit on what is going on in the southwest. Coming up after the break, we'll check in with the Great Lakes area. Maybe the story changes if there's anything you WANNA share, maybe you are working again. If there's something you're working terms of restoration of different species, and you've hit a glitch and want to tell us about it going. Give us a ring. One, eight, hundred, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight is a number. What about the pandemic has anything changed? Because of it? Phone lines are open. Support by southwestern Indian. Polytechnic Institutes Early Childhood Education Program Providing an affordable pathway for the next generation of native teachers who will meet the unique educational needs of native students cities Early Childhood Education Associates. Degree is an all inclusive program with mentorship for success in education in an intertribal learning community, Info and application. That S I P I dot Edu under academics. Then programs fall application. Deadline is August seventh. Thanks for tuning into native. America, calling Tara Gatewood today we were talking about tribal fisheries and hatcheries today, and is your tribe working to conserve particular fish species? Calling tells about it. There is still time to join. Our conversation were at one, eight, hundred, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight. That's also one eight, hundred, nine, nine native. Let's go to the phone lines. We have an anonymous caller in Albuquerque New Mexico listening in on K. UNM. Thanks for calling and go hit you on here. Good Afghan. Erica fish. Yes, can you hear me? Yeah here you now. Can you hear me Yes? The needs of American fish and Wildlife Society is offering to scholarship saw. Into deadline for applications August fifteenth. twenty twenty so I have a number here. You can contact for more information. Okay go ahead and give number, and the number is five, five, five, six, three, three, seven to three, and the person's name is Lawrence Beta. He's our biologist. Okay in what are you GonNa do to qualify for that. I have no information, but he has all the information on these scholarship programs. Just passing information on since I heard you I just turn tuned in late and her. You're talking about fishes. This might be a good Helpful information well. Thank you for that and It's always good, and this is you know a fun part of community radio where you make it your own by also sharing information like this, you know we bring different topics to these airwaves and then maybe they are something specific, even opportunities like we just heard about a scholarship. You can always sharing that way. We're glad you gave us a ring. We're going to go now to Dana Wisconsin we have Dylan Jennings on the line. He's director of public information for the Great. Lakes Indian, fish and Wildlife Commission, and he is a member of the bad river band of Lake. Superior Chippewa Dylan. Thank you for connecting with us today, welcome. Tear thanks for having me boo and tell us a little bit about some of the conservation work that is going on there in the Great Lakes area. Yeah, so looks like works with eleven federally recognized way travel communities with a treaty protected rights in Minnesota Wisconsin and Michigan. These treaties with the federal government were signed in the mid eighteen hundreds since ceded territory, which is which basically encompasses most of the northern regions of the states To which these tribal communities retained Yousef rectory rights to, and so we're looking at a huge swath of of land where. A lot of a lot of a lot of lakes streams, rivers, and reservoirs that with looking the tribes were deeply to to help to maintain and To help progress in and help along the populations of. Specific Fish within within those within those respective lakes for water water reservoirs. In dealing. Tell me some of this success. You've seen in how you got to that point. Yeah, so I think you know as far as hatcheries go and hatchery production I'm not an expert so to speak I not a I'm not a fisheries biologist, but you know we do we do. Talk about this a lot and we're really a lot of our visa. The work they have done Tribal hatcheries that exist within. Some of the communities that we work with have been in play for over eighty years. you know exciting? One of one of one of the hatcheries located in the latter flambeau reservation. Wisconsin, William gave coupon senior. He's been going. You know nineteen thirty six. And Yearly, we we produce within our within our. Quarterly quarterly newspaper we publish them. The tribal hatchery production numbers for these times that have Hatcheries within their respective communities and you know according to some of our recent data from twenty, eighteen or still working twenty nine hundred data. Over, fifteen, million, nine, hundred, thirty, thousand, one, hundred, eighty five. Total fish were returned to local lakes, streams and reservoirs. In, so dylan earlier we heard from Glenn and Chile a little bit about Drowsy, incomparable drought, compromising things. Are there any specific issues that are compromising fish populations there in the Great Lake regions? Absolutely kind of listening to some of their concerns, their civil concern around here around here as well you know we're very much looking at this from a subsistence, and also recreational fisheries. Viewpoint and they're both extremely important in you know in the upper. Midwest here some of the the increasing environmental concerns like climate change to cited earlier increasing temperatures of water, as it pertains to Habitat and also you know not native species in and development along along waterways also been you know huge concern you know in relation to fish populations here in the Great Lakes. The one of the one of the things that some of the tribes have been really working towards anglophobic is a notion of radical, the c lampard species that were introduced back in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty eight. Can Act mets for shipping and the Great Lakes and you know, see lamp. There, to be a, you know parasitic. Species of fish that. Prey on some of the the native species here within the Great Lakes and they're becoming A. Become quite quite the problem. And dealing thinking of the time that we're in cove in nineteen, the coronavirus any thoughts on how it is changing I. Their work that's being done or maybe even people who are usually recreating right now. Yes a lot of the You know the. The. What they call the the the period of time in the spring and the fall, when our teams are actually doing evaluations or shocking of the lakes to get population, estimates and whatnot you know. Some of our teams are actually still able to make it out this this past spring, despite all the the the world pandemic going on, but know I think it was scaled-back. Kinda significantly and so that that's one area that is somewhat affected. You know some of that work you know in addition I think. We've we've probably seen an uptick or increase in people harvesting in general as? We look to Food shortages and Now. They're other social problems that have kind of come come to light a out of this pandemic, so more people are harvesting and potentially increase pressure on fisheries populations. You know for subsistence purposes. And You know I think that's that's kind of just a snapshot of what we've what we've seen in this area. And Dylan water some of the things that tribes are watching in terms of keeping you know everything in balance or maybe even legislation that might be on the table or things that people are bringing to their lawmakers. Is there anything you can update us on? Yeah No you know one one in portent funding mechanisms for tribes, especially the Great Lakes area is the L.. I the Great Lakes Restoration Initiative which has continually been been funded, his always been on the chopping block over the last few years, by some some branches of government and That's definitely a you know. Funding mechanism that provides for the apart tribal communities and federal federal partners went not to our resources and funding towards these very important medication, efforts and And and we're done to help preserve the student and the Great Lakes in with an area, so that's one area that I know. The tribes have paid special attention to in. One area. That's really significant in maintaining maintain those fissures, but also maintaining the you know. The lakes themselves. Pretty interesting in. Maybe you have some updates for us. Go ahead and dial in one, eight, hundred, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight is a number hint. Dylan. We're can go to our caller Gordon. WHO's in red? Lake Minnesota listening in on KABC Radio Gordon. Thank you for giving us a ring and go ahead. Please share. Well all right well. Thank you for putting me on I. Just wanted to reiterate to these other fishery people up there. How wonderful it is the job they're doing and we have to save our lake. We had a great big huge fishery and early nineteen hundreds, and we ended up. Fishing are lake out our famous readily Walleye and we had to Redo the whole thing with the the tribe in the the state and and lakes DNR. We've opened up a hatchery and we've got a The lake is all been stabilized the the. The Fisher getting real big, and we still commercially fish. The just officially does. We don't have individuals fishing anymore because it got to be too many people in too many that. That's what happened the first time, so and now it's a very. Large functioning job, producing business on the reservation, and and they sell their fish all over the world. It's Famous Riddle League while. I DOT COM. So. So I just wanted to. I just wanted to. Thank those guys for working the fisheries and saving the fish and keeping them going. 'cause we almost killed ours and we've made it. Come back, and it's everybody's real happy. Everybody had of jobs putting a fish, and it's working out real good, so I just wanted to say what good program all these fishery things are into. Gordon before you go, and if you can comment just how important it is to have access to certain species and Walleye. It's delicious, but you know there's also that cultural connection, and even you said providing jobs anything you WANNA share about the specialness of being able to have the species to access, maybe even for Cultural Purposes Gordon anything you can share yes. Yes our our fishery donates a lot of Walleye, fillets and things two different. Community going on and doing and outlying communities away from the reservation even and. And it's been real big for our POWWOWS, and we have a feast we feed while I to the people. Everybody gets free fish and. It's it's It's kept our tribe together and. got to a point where it almost destroyed some of the families, but it, but now that it's going so good again. We get to use it. For just for nourishment, but also for spirituality of the lake being alive again it's it's It's the lake is very very important to us, and we never gave it up. 'cause we're the only close reservation and state of Minnesota, maybe even in the country where we still maintain our borders and our sovereignty and. It's been very spiritual for us to save our lake into save. Our fishing were very very proud of it and we walk real problem with that accolade so i. Just just keep it up and keep doing it. I just I love to hear the stories of success of the natives saving their their food. Even if it's the traditional food, maybe they have a different kind of trout. But it's still there and it still helps spirituality, and it's part of the land, and they are. They are with us. They've been with us for forever. They're the ones who taught us how to live with it. In the winter by coming up, so we could spear them in in the through the ice in this. They've always been there and it. It's not going to go away anymore and I. I feel real strong about this. 'cause I was pretty young and I was wondering fishermen. Who would you pull a lot of big big lots and it's just full full full of efficient. And we got and we got carried away. And we learned our lesson, but the tribe saw in the council got together in the state offered to help us, and they came in, and we have a real big. DNR program and Red Lake. And our and our hatchery is going real good and. I just I. I WanNa hear more and more people that are doing this for their reservations, or or for for themselves in their people. In coming back to have a story like that, I? Think is really important, and then you know I was picturing you out there fishing wildlife, but then hearing what you meant by that. That's pretty serious in Gordon. You know what I'm celebrating with you. And maybe that's what your tribe story is to about your brought it all back and you know we continue to cover different things. There's always moments in spaces where we want to focus in on these things and their cultural aspects, or even these stories of turning things around. Maybe have one to share going email. US comments at native, America Calling Dot Com Gordon. Thank you for giving us. And Dylan saving the fish could mean saving the culture anything. You want to expand on that. I think just other than reiterating. We're at You know the fish and a lot of these species are. Extremely tied to our way of life are subsistence way of life, but our cultural way of life as well. And you know in our community up here in bad river in within the community that we work. you know all God's word for wally. That wall I is present or those that have president just about every single one of our feast ceremonies are doing. And there's. You know very very important very important teachings about how to respect that one, and and and care for that one and it's very much a relationship of reciprocity that takes care of us, and we take care of them, so that's. That's one of those principles that I think a lot of our Our phone with finding those traditional teaching. In. Finally Dylan finding careers in all of this. Maybe we spark some interest today anything you WANNA. Share about somebody who's kind of interested. How follow up? Yeah I think you know speaking from our community here and you know just kinda working with other communities I know that finding biologists and you know especially good fisheries biologist is also difficult in Indian country at least in our our. Within especially finding native biologists individuals to you know Kinda are able to understand the cultural significant traditional aspects of things, but tie that in with the with the sciences in biology that goes along with that Those types of individuals are hard few in between. Would definitely like to encourage. Individuals to get involved in that in that area and potentially considered from coming and working for you know a tribal fishery, tribal DNR or or cliff liquor, one of these intertribal agencies that definitely needs that support. It also seems that you can explore different areas to you know one time working in the hatchery. Maybe even doing some of the legislative site and all kinds of things pretty interesting. Our Young folks who are listening did we Pique. Your interest tells about it again. REACH OUT COMMENTS AND NATIVE AMERICA CALLING DOT com, and that's going to wrap it up for our. Thank you to Dylan Jennings Shelly. Berlin in Glen Shelby, and also our check in with Sarah deer. If you missed anything or you, WANNA. Pass this this program onto somebody else to give a listen. Listen? You can find it on our website. NATIVE AMERICA CALLING DOT com. We also offer it as a podcast on Itunes soundcloud stitcher, and if those are the places you get your podcast, make sure you subscribe us their re to. You have some time and that's going to do it for a program today. Join US tomorrow as we pick up a discussion on advocating for your own health to medical professionals. Lots of things to be said when you go to the doctor's office, we'll give you some guidance on best ways. Best Practices. I'm Tara Gatewood meet here tomorrow. Smoking gave me COPD which makes it harder and harder for me to. I have a tip for you. If your doctor gives you five years to live, spend it talking with your grandchildren explained to him now your ground personnel can be around anymore to share his wisdom and his love I haven't figured out how to do that. Yet I'm running out tire. COPD makes it harder and harder to breathe and can cause death. You can quit for free help. Call one eight hundred quit now a message from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Zhou or the petain down our argument Oman Gio in an okay jig initially Nabeul cuisine got me going in. Bob Cochran gaming me. No one knew we nod Dema. Gaiman Gano, Jane Okay'd unissued Nabiuh cuisine gummy woman to watch Kane DOMON MOGADISHU IN HEALTHCARE DOT GOV game. Oh Gosh one, eight, hundred, three, one, eight, two, five, nine six coundon God. The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid services wage. 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Its Time to Push Back | Guests: Will Hild & Tim Phillips | 5/21/21
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Better for america this here fusion of entertainment ban and white druce. Oh hello america and welcome to the program. We're going to talk a little bit about the january. Six commission Here in just a couple of minutes we also have a story about a wash russian woman who smothered her husband with her. But i mean it's friday eight. What would it be like without a good but smothering story. We haven't for you coming up. Friday summer is only a couple of weeks away. it's time to celebrate the longer days fun in the sun. You deserve it. It's been a miserable year. Celebrate something right now chamonix going to help you the sale that is also something that you deserve their summer. Blowout get the brand news. Atique deep correcting serum absolutely free with your order. Now bobby from fresno california. She says three days. Before my doctor's appointment i started using exotic and she said what have you changed. Your skin looks great. I've told her i've been taking zoonotic. 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I don't recall a time that i've ever done this before. But i think this is. I think this is worth it. I'm giving free commercials away to consumers research. Now this is. This is a hundred year old group. That i've never even heard of. Have you heard of it. No it's dedicated to consumer knowledge and freedom and they have started a name and shame campaign and as a public service out of the generosity of my own heart. And because i love it so much. The glenn beck program is is glad to give this advertisement. One hundred percent free to consumers research is rated the worst losing the most bags shrieking legroom during covid american requires passengers to show. Id to fly. But attacks. Texas popular voter ideal. Why ceo doug parker trying to appease the radical left to distract from billions of taxpayer bailouts at from ten million dollar payday from americans record layoffs. Doug parker american airlines serve your customers that will politicians doug parker's bad guy as any. I think it was. Dan tucker knows doug knows daddy. We played again to make sure i apologize. I'm pretty sure it's dose. Doug partisans let's all right all right let's play it again. Please rated the worst. Losing the most bags and drinking legroom during american requires passengers to show. I d to fly attacks. Texas is popular voter ideal. Why are you. Ceo doug parker trying to appease the radical left to distract from billions of taxpayer bailouts from his ten million dollar from americans record layoffs. Doug parker donald near honored is not wolf. You know what really bothers me is that harker is right right. You had an all right. Doug parker that he's just jam this down the throat. So if you're flying united airlines all of a sudden i know but those american airlines not a united. I'm pretty sure they said parker american air. We know it was doug parker but i thought it was united now is rated the worst of losing most bags shrieking legroom during cove it american requires passengers to show idea fly but attacks. Texas is popular voter. I e eeo. Doug parker trying to appease the radical probably trying to distract from billions of taxpayer. Bail got ten million dollar payday. Layoffs was laying milliken airlines. It is okay. Sorry for that. It was doug parker american airlines embarrassed. We that we were not prepared. I'm sorry to play three different. I only wanted to play at once. I only wanted to play it. Well i mean. I'm sorry that was so repetitive. By the way we have the We have the head of the consumers research group. I don't know you call it. It's a. I think it's a five. Oh one c. three. I don't know i'd be. We should find out because maybe somebody would want to donate to this group. Yeah i can't. I liked because i really like this This tactic away love it. I like it. has you know. I'm not a boycott guy. And i don't think they're effective. I don't think they work. No they don't they don't yet have cheetah toronto. She's doing great over the daily wire. Is that still a still disney. Nobody's not disney but they they can isolate our voices. They removed the most popular character from a star wars franchise while while conservatives got it to trend number one on the country there but you know what they care about their freaking their name being the c evenings marker doug parker from american airlines. You know you should. You should tweet today or facebook and asks. Doug parker i mean. Don't you feel bad taking billions in taxpayer. Money laying off all of those people and then getting a ten million dollar payday. Doug parker i mean if i were doug parker i would feel bad. What if you were doug. I feel terrible. People were all talking about me and my payday who park. Doug parks from american airlines. Yeah i really don't like doug. Well i mean i'm not i can't speak for doug parker but people like doug parker. They do not do not like their name associated with things like this. Doug parker yeah at american airlines ceo. I think this is also much more manageable for people to do. We talked about how how difficult it is to not drink coca cola. You were trying to boycott writing. They own everyone's really easy for me to tweet right now. Hashtag doug parker. Why why yeah. Why a ten million dollar payday for hashtag. Doug parker at hashtag american airlines. Why i love the the love. The political attack ad like mode it is too. It's just like all of these things piled on top with like the. Why on earth was he shrinking legroom during covid. I wanna know. I wanna know from doug. Parker are you pro. Cove it as you benefit off of this. Doug parker from american airlines. You know what i really like is the fact that when we just heard it in and if you're watching you you saw with all of the With all of the footnotes. So you know that it's true you can follow those stories. Doug parker in like you know the washington post or new york times that they took billions of dollars. He's still got a ten million dollar payday. Cut workers from the from the dole. They're no longer working for american airlines. And then he he shrinks legroom during kovin. The what the legroom has to do with. Don't know i didn't know legroom was had anything to do with the virus. But i'm i'm worried about to the other person now of that. Yes you are closer to the other. That is really bad. Stu why was doug parker. Doing gain of function research the institute of technology. I wanted to know by the way. I would like to know from the white house. If there's any evidence that does say that that The wuhan virus did come from that lab high it seemingly the administration even is saying that it might very well be true. Did you see. I think it was politifact. That came out and said we're just not just Is that missing now. What happened to our to our fact check false rating on that on fire. Yeah well not pants on fire. I don't even know what you're talking about. What they rated that pants on fire lie and now now the whole thing about it did come from the lab and wuhan. That's just been quietly removed from pants on fire to. I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah this is really bad. There was there was what i tell you something. I bet you doug. Parker had something to do with it for from american airlines airlines. Ceo hashtag. doug. Parker would this even have been the pandemic with more legroom. I don't think so. I think we to find we probably would if we're more legroom on american airlines if doug parker really cared he wouldn't have taken ten million dollars as a payday during this right right. I don't have a problem with people taking large sums of money. You know if you're not cutting everybody's job and you're not taking billions of dollars from taxpayers to keep your doors open if you're taking billions of dollars of taxpayer money. I don't think doug parker should have had a ten million dollar bonus come and do. You still doesn't seem like that's the way things normally work but anyway back to the pants on fire with with The wuhan thing. The white house now won't come out and say one way or another well. I don't think they know frankly but still the fact that you don't think they know i don't think they know i don't think scientists know at this point But i do think. There's a hell of a lot of evidence when it comes to a circumstantial. There are circumstantial. Ed wing. So i agree with that but they certainly knew there was no way that was even possible during the campaign. I mean they knew that. Bridge the The facebook googles of the world to make sure you shut down anyone who said that a hundred percent true and you know our government was clear during the trump administration that this was a real possibility not just from donald trump tweeting but from the cdc director right people who were really looking at this closely said there's a good chance it's one or the other we they have not ruled out the natural Thread here but i mean there. An extensive article written by a former new york times reporter in medium. Did you read this. I it's like it's like an hour long read but it's it's worth it. If you care about this stuff. He goes through all the science on it. And i mean. The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming. I would my read of it. And i don't know varela gist but like doctor. You are doctor. It's it's i would say the leading possibility. It's i wouldn't say it's confirmed but it is the leading possibility at this point. It i mean come on. I mean again. The circumstantial evidence. I know but it's a little. It's i mean common sense at least lead you to the to the You know The mao figure in the freezer at the virology institute. Yeah i mean it kind of i mean. We're playing clue the rope. The gun and the candlestick and the knife are all in the freezer in wuhan. Yeah and look. Scientists should be trying to confirm this as close as possible but at all the stuff up right at the very least wish. This is a much more important commission than the january sixth commission. I want to know how the hell millions of people are dead because of the government of china and they're communism May i suggest doug parker knows. Yes this is why. Change the legroom. Yeah it is it is it is too because you can fit more people from asia because they are generally smaller leibel. He's doing that. Because he's he's ready for the takeover of china. I think right you know hashtag doug parker why Hashtag doug parker y by the way you know who you know who just banned mullets and skinny jeans. A fashion right kinda like this okay. So far seems like you just did this. He banned banned does. He has a mullet. Doesn't i think he has a weird l. I mean it's it's clearly. It's a weirdo haircut. It's one of those haircuts. I mean it's it's not a mullet but it's one of those things that like crazy okay. Alright okay we're not listening anything because we are looking at your hair because it just says it screams crazy So he says no mullets. because that's a sign of the decadent influence of capitalism. I don't think so. I don't think so. I think that's just bad fashion right. Hand skinny jeans now. I don't know. But i like it. You know who didn't ban this doug. Parker parker didn't do it. Nope we doug. Parker is not as good of a human being as kim jong a out. Why did they put that in the ad i didn't they i don't know why won't you ban skinny jeans. It feels like to capitalism. Isn't the cause of skinny jeans. Nationalism is because of people not being able to fit into schedule with kim on that one a all right let me tell you about our sponsor this half hour something that doug parker probably wouldn't want you to hear but i don't know if he's for the truth or not why i don't know i don't know ask hashtag doug parker why anyway relieffactor. Let's see if we can make that trend. Come on as an audience we can do it. We can do it. Make that trend today to call your friend right now. We've got three hours. We can make hashtag. Doug parker why hashtag american airlines why we can make those trend today. I think we can do it as an audience. Come on. don't let me down a relief factor. You spend every day of your waking life from morning until you go to sleep in pain. do you say to yourself. I can't do this another day. I remember those days. Here's what you need to know. Relief factor will be there for you and for seventy percent of the people You know it it works. They go on and they order more. Now you'll know within three weeks that's why they give the three week trial pack. You'll know in three weeks whether this stuff is going to work for you. If it doesn't i mean it sucks to be you but it does it'll change your life. I did not think it would work for me. But did i don't know why i think it's witchcraft. Think it would work for doug. Parker no no. He's in a class of wonder if he's to think he's even human or is he possibly one of those ufo commanders could be. I'm just asking hashtag dot over. Why american airlines. Why anyway relieffactor. All i want you to do is just try it for three weeks. Call eight hundred five hundred eighty three eighty four. It's relief factor eight hundred five hundred. Eighty three eighty four ten seconds station. Id hey by the way. There's a A commercial from the consumers research dot. Org which i think if you liked it. I think they're five. Oh one c. Three you should go to consumers research dot org and you can get all of these commercials hashtag. Doug parker why hashtag american airlines why consumers research dot org consumers with an ass research dot org. You can get these ads and you could find out if you can donate because i'd hate to have that happen in a half an hour. I've got the the head guy from consumers research dot org hashtag doug barker why But there's you know they. They've they've done one for American airlines they did one for nike. And of course i mean. It wouldn't be a friday if we couldn't ask ourselves coca cola. Are you killing people. Why listen coca. Cola is getting political attacking georgia's popular voting law why to distract from years of dismal sales. Terrible twenty twenty results report suspecting they benefit from forced labor in china coca cola. Brock's poisoning america's youth in worsening the obesity epidemic. What's tried funding phony science to minimize the harms. But they got busted. James quincy coca-cola shops as our children sue you're gonna today's quincy james. No it was tony. Jensen kidd was now. We gotta listen to it again. I guess us james quincy. Why hashtag james quincy hashtag coca cola was by poisoning our children. Why the labor thing. They're all in on that. They're all in nike. Why coca cola. Did you see there was a new film. Do you see. There's a new film out now. From the warriors they made the. It's themselves really. Yeah about how great everything is china. Those concentration camps are not concentration camps and they all got together because they were so tired of people saying that they were being you know systematically removed and killed and sterilize. Yeah that they themselves wanted to make a little film is that the new sandals resort. they built in the weaker right province. This yeah they're like all inclusive inclusive are not even have to tip no plan. You know you just go there you stay as long as is you like or not and you get free drinks. Free sterilization wow free education. That's a given. If you've had an education they give you a free agent you wanna talk about benefits and they had this bar rice. Which i wonder why james quincy from coca cola would quincy james. I'm pretty sure. It's quincy adams so we don't even have time now to replay it. I just. I would have to ask hashtag. Coca-cola's and james quincy high hashtag. James quincy why hesitate coca-cola why are you profiting from concentration camps. It the swim up bar that because they probably have to swim up and say jack and coke please eight. There are muslims. So they don't drink. We should s hashtag. James quincy why great show for you coming up probably monday today. We're just going to kind of wing it. 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I want you to find a hustler. Dear dealer near you these lawnmower. It'd be the last lawnmower you buy until joe biden makes you forces you to buy one with a battery it's hustler turf dot com. That's hustler turf. dot com. Take it out for a test. Drive unbelievable on. Moore's brand new episode of glenn tv today. Tv hashtag line blaze. Tv dot com slash. Promo code is glenn mature to check it out. Welcome welcome to the glenn beck program. We're so glad you're here. Pat gray is joining us from pat. Gray unleashed i gotta tell you paddock. Thought about you all day yesterday. Because i think i have the same thing that you had a dermatologist. My my wife has been saying to me for a year. Go to the dermatologist. There is something wrong. And i'm like yes. My skin won't heal. And i'm sure that doesn't mean anything. I'm bleeding from the same place for a solid year. But what does i mean. That's normal and she's got the last three months she's been like you're bleeding on each cheek and your forehead every day. Now go because you have cancer. And i'm like it's not cancer so i went yesterday to the dermatologist and in is cancer and she said but good kind of cancer. I wanna make this really really clear really clear. It's a good kind now. I didn't know which she said she's looking at my skin. She's like yeah this is. This is probably cancer. And i was like wait. What why are you just saying. That casually shouldn't i be sitting down you know at least with my underpants on before you go get cancer all right. What else do you want to talk about. And she said. I pineapple back of it and she said no. It's a good kind of cancer. Said i you know. I've not heard about the good kind of cancer skin. Cancer only goes skin deep right. It doesn't spread around your mellano. Melanoma she said so. You're not gonna die of this. And i'm like oh right and then i realized unless you let it go and then it can become something much worse for like a year. I don't know how long it takes because that was my first question. I said but i i've had this for at least a year. And she said yes. It's not it's not a problem And i said oh okay. And then i realized i have to go home to my wife and tell her cancer and i don't know what i was afraid of more cancer or saying that to my wife. You know exactly what you were more afraid of right because my wife will kill me a faster than cancer and i had to go home and say okay all right okay. She's looking at me and she's like what did the doctor say. And who's that tone. And i'm like okay. Okay okay alright. Let's just start with this premise. You were right and then she said you have cancer. And i said it's the good. I saw the doctor told me. Eighty your face. You just had this right. Yeah and you had this some of it removed. I hadn't this. This car comes from that and then right here on top of my nose. yeah Now this this incision was closed by a plastic surgeon this was closed by the regular surgeon. And i search it to close your. Yeah okay all right. I'll do that. I'll welcome to every offaire conversation by the way at this point. Feels like we're talking about bursitis. My son is i can go. There is gonna change damn gouty. I realized as i'm sitting there and having this removed. And i think of of pat him having it removed and i'm thinking to myself could god we're now at the age of the people who got up into the spaceship in cocoon. Y'all were guys were fifty. They were was how old was for brindley. He was eighteen thousand he he was a billion years thousand five hundred and thirty days old which is which is well. Here's the thing there's there's a. There's a website that tracks the family. Cocoon line which is they tell you. Each person who crosses the burnley cocoon line. So this is I'll give you some of the recent people because you guys aren't even close to it. Got born august. Twenty six nineteen seventy. All my what actress. Melissa mccarthy has crossed the brindley cocoon line. Oh my god. Melissa mccarthy well at least you had some life in. You'd be a fun trip. Face with melissa mccarthy so he was under fifty one claudia schiffer cloudy while fred durst from limp. A skit battles ali biz like. That doesn't seem that long ago. Just not possible malcolm. Jamal warner from the cosby show. Star's crossed the bridge. Cocoon line on. Remember watching cocoon. He looked wilford brim. Looked like he was a thousand. He did go up in space. Better off diane. Here of you're fifty one fifty one. Wow that's not right. How old was jessica tandy. Because she was in that too she was really old right. And that other guy that guy that guy you know you'd know him if you saw him those to look like they were thousand and ten the tracey gold from growing pains. Okay crossed i very more news story to cover. I don't want to hear from you anymore. Weight back here it is beck. The singer has crossed the wave home. Jeez i read. He was he bet pro. He broke Into popularity the what the mid nineties ninety four ninety five. He is now older than wilford. Brindley was in cocoon where we play that song in connecticut all the time he had just come out. That's amazing shut up. That's lead singer of the bears eighties. Shut up. I have a very important news story to cover. America needs to know this news. A russian woman weighing two hundred twenty four pounds killer husband by suffocating. Him with her but wait she was. She was not convicted of murder though but she was convicted of causing death by negligence. She was charged with murder but she said she was only wanting to calm him down after possibly drinking too much so she sat on his face. So couldn't get out from underneath that. I mean if you pull your head out really hard seat. Have you had a two hundred and twenty four. Have on your face no. yeah. I haven't either. But i'm assuming it's hell. Yeah probably suffocated. Do you want to be known as somebody who is suffocated somebody. I don't want to be those people. Frankly embarrassed has it worse. Yeah you're dead but at least you're not the one walking around and killed but okay. It is friday so to hell with all. Let me tell you about american financing american financing. One eight two three three four. Www dot having less consumer access dot or julia wrote in she said my husband. And i heard about american financing from your radio. Show mr back. I like it when people call me mr beck with the actually don't with the low mortgage rates available. We decided to look into refinancing thirty year mortgage into a fifteen year mortgage. We worked with scott who is amazing. He called us and was able to get up some figures over the phone. We were hoping to get some cash out to pay off other debt. We appreciate it. Support on that are rate would have been lower without the cash out but supported our decision and helped us get the best rate for our situation really transparent throughout the whole process. Always keeping us informed of the not the next steps quickly getting back to us when we had questions. He not only worked well with his team. Katie and laura but also made us feel like it was our team. That's american financing for you. Julie thank you for writing in. That's the way they do business. They work for you. Not the banks american financing. Call them now and have them help you with your financial situation at eight hundred nine zero six twenty four forty eight hundred nine zero six two thousand four forty or go to american financing dot net. This is the glenn beck program. Friday pat gray is still with us from pat gray unleashed by the way i heard you talking about doug parker but i i missed who exactly that is. I was only. I don't know who don't my gosh well as he's asking us to tell him doug parker there's that commercial that summarize it. I thought fairly well should play that. Could you play the doug. Parker commercial chimerical neurons rated the worst boozing the most bags shrieking legroom during cova american requires passengers to show idea to fly but attacks. Texas is popular voter. Id d what. Why don parker trying to appease the radical laugh not sure to distract from billions of taxpayer bill slow from his ten million dollars payday record. Layoffs jug parker american airlines. Serve your customers politicians. Wow that sounds like a bad guy trying to see if people agree with us by tweeting out hashtag. Doug parker why because he skies love it. Do they love it when you're questioning their salary. Yeah they love that love. of course. he's bad when you say hashtag. Doug parker why is bad stu Yeah he's bad. People are tweeting makes million dollars a year right because when you lay down. Nineteen thousand employees. And you got five billion dollars in taxpayer money. You might not wanna take the ten million dollars. Hashtag doug parker wa why But did you hear about coq. The ceo of coca cola. No oh my gosh. She should listen to this coca cola. He's getting political. What's attacking georgia's popular voting law. Why to distract from years of dismal saone terrible twenty twenty resigned suspecting. They benefited from forced labor in china. Coca cola products like toys america's youth in waste sitting the obesity epidemic. So the company tried funding phony science to minimize august. Look they got busted she's coca cola stuff poisoning our children. Your customers not politicians. Wow sounds a lot like doug. What's his face. Parker darbar hashtag. Doug parker why would he do such a thing. Josh things like you heard about the ceo of nike injia who the ceo nike nike is constantly political. Why cover congressional reports suspect. Nike used forced labor in china. Minorities were wind from their families. Sterilized salt factories. Nike may choose those same areas. Congress tried to ban nike's labor practices nike fought back with highly paid lobbyists rather strings merican nike chose john donahoe john. Donahoe stop exploiting foreign labor customers. Right wilpon donohoe give us more legroom too. That's the other guy and great guy from what is it again. It's a consumers research dot org They're the ones that produce this. And i think everybody should go to consumers research dot org you know if they have a way to donate to them You should donate and you should also take those ads and post them every everywhere everywhere everywhere. Those should be posted at with the hashtag. Of course why why. A lot of people are asking jerry. Doug parker why pretty interesting questions like. Why for you but not for voters. Doug parker why. Why why. why is there less legroom. Y parker why. Why would like to build the answer to that. How about the one thing you know. The obesity in kids yeah. I know that we all know that with coca cola. The thing where they were nike and coca cola accused of using slave labor leaders. That's you know that's sad kind of that's a big y bad one. How do you sleep at night. Hashtag doug parker. Why because it's it is a totally different. I've never. I don't remember ever seeing this type of campaign used in non-political no political ads. Now see this all the time with politicians. But i've never seen it like this. Ceo's like that you sometimes see the sort of stuff from the left right. They'll go after certain. Companies accused them of But like you don't normally see it. Yeah which would add woke perspectives. To be leads me to hashtag conservatives. Why i like that live this is i think a good a good tactic is also just makes me laugh. I just love it. i love it going back. A ways for long-term listeners this phlegm laskey velveeta exact. Accept these are. These are real things that they did. It's the style though. I like this style attack to what. It's their tactic really. It's the left tackle. And i love seeing it. Used against them. And i gave him a bad person for that. By love. consumers research dot org Is getting free air time for me. I'm gonna play these things. Keep making them. I'll play 'em on. I think i urge every podcast. Every broadcaster do the same. Do the same. You'll notice these have not made the news. This is a big deal. Nobody's talking about it because the mainstream press i ain't gonna can't even call the mainstream press. The institutional brass is. It doesn't will never report on this. No never the only way this is going to get out is through conservatives so please podcasters broadcasters and you post it everywhere post these things everywhere. We have the ceo of consumers research. Doug parker no shell cash tag dunk. Why argue the ceo sars research. Why is he coming up. He's coming about yeah about ten minutes. So that's that's gonna be good. You found a story on climate change. Yes stephen kuhnen guy who graduated from caltech and then he got his phd from mit. He's a theoretical physicist who worked in the obama administration. And right now. He's a professor at nyu so he's got incredible conservative credentials. Sounds like a right conservative. He's another defector from the left wing Climate crisis climate emergency alarmist. But he's he has no no credentials at all. He's a theoretical physicist from caltech and mit. What could he possibly with the obama administration. Who did nothing right. Yeah right so. He said that the obama administration got them studying this and it was during that course of study where he started seeing the actual data. And he's like wait a minute. I think i'm wrong on this but everybody else was like. Yeah yard but it. And he's not he's not to let him. Yeah yes said that other people told him to shut up about it and they're pissed you know you know who is who is silent on this hashtag doug barter. Why why why. Why would you be silent on this. Wow ash tag. doug why. I are spotlight. Sponsor is teaser. Protecting your family safe. Safety safely is number. One taser believes that safer self defense is better self defense. This is a lethal self protection device. It's lightweight enough to carry on you or in your glove compartment or your purse powerful enough to incapacitate a An attacker and it's really easy to use it. Immobilizes attackers for up to thirty seconds. Gives you a chance to escape and it sends emergency dispatch to your gps location. So it's really good. Two hundred thirty seven thousand lives have been saved with the taser network of devices. Find your taser now. Limited time take advantage of tasers best offer available save sixty on the pulse plus bundle with taser taser pulse plus device cartridges and holster a taser dot com. That's t. a. S. e. r. Dot com keizer dot com. Use the promo code beck. Would you not here is the fusion of entertainment. And and what. Express the glenn beck program. While i've noticed that A lot of people on twitter are beginning to ask themselves hashtag. Doug parker why ashtanga american airlines why. There's some facts that are going around. Apparently because a lot of people are attaching the commercials that were put out by company or a group that i've never even heard of been around for one hundred years. It's consumers what is it still consumers. Research dot org. I don't want to get that wrong. I just keep thinking hashtag. Doug parker why you don't know what i'm talking about. I'll explain in sixty seconds and you're gonna love. It is friday and for the next two hours. I am only going to talk to people who have solutions and are doing something right now. This is a great positive two hours that you don't wanna miss a second of now. Let me tell you about my pillow. You know someone say. I like to as a dad embarrassed. My children I say can you be a dad and not embarrass your children. I mean what is the point of children if you can't embarrass them. That's why my new slippers from my pillow are so damn exciting. Because not only are they very very comfortable. They're made so you could wear them day. You could wear them outside because it has nice little soul on it rubber soul on it. So it's fantastic but then when you add the the fact that you could go and pick up your kids or take him out for dinner water wearing your slippers now. Can you attach a price to that embarrassment for your children. Can't how much would you pay to be able to wear your slippers with your children and have them tad. I said there's not a price. There's not a price high enough for that but how forty percent off of my slippers right now. Forty percent off my pillow dot com. Click on the new radio listener special and use the promo code back to receive this incredible offer right now. Forty percent off the slippers and a one year warranty sixty day money back guarantee. That's my pillow dot com my pillow dot com promo code beck or call eight hundred nine six thirty one seventeen. The executive director of consumers research dot org is will hill and he is joining us. Now will. I am sorry that i've never heard of your organization before i know you've been in business now for one hundred years. Tell me about what you guys do. And then we have to discuss what you have just done absolutely well. Consumers research is the nation's oldest consumer protection organization founded in nineteen twenty nine. We have a ninety one year pedigree in standing up for consumers and being their voice in the marketplace. That's exactly what the this consumers i initiative record is all about and tell me about the consumers i initiative. Well it's a seven figure ongoing campaign with a very simple message It is to every member of corporate america every business and corporate america Stop closing up to woke politician. Stock cozying up to woke activists to distract premier mistreatment of your customers and focus on serving them. Focus on serving your consumers. Now you seemed you see lemme flake. Could we play one Please could we play the doug. Parker american airlines commercial hairdo is rated the worst losing the most bags shrieking legroom covy american requires passengers to show. Id to fly but attacks. Texas popular voter id law. Why is done parker trying to abuse the radical left to distract from billions of taxpayer bailouts from his ten dollar fee from americans record layoffs. Doug parker american airlines your customers politicians. Wow hashtag doug parker why hashtag american airlines why You seem to be going after the. Ceo's why well They're just part and parcel of Part of the organization that is trying to distract from their failures to serve their customers in order to change the change. The conversation they don't want to have to talk about Being rated last by wall street journal the worst airline in america. They lose the most bags they kick the most people off of flights. We were actually able to reach out to them and confirm directly from them that during the period of the covid pandemic they continue to decrease legroom many of their flights. Of course at a time when vais took a multibillion dollar tax payer funded bailout and that didn't stop see doug parker from getting himself an eight figure paycheck last year and missiles eldest lastly at They laid off Nineteen thousand workers. I believe during that period so they wanna talk about anything. They can other than those facts. Parker certainly doesn't want questions raised about why. Taxpayers are subsidizing His is performance paycheck. Performance-based paycheck for taking american airlines are making it dead last in america. You may be my favorite executive director. I've ever met. What is your background will. well You know i come from a long georgetown grad. But i'm not the story here. glenn We want to focus on the consumer here and defending their rights And so yeah. I don't i honestly don't care if she let me just say i appreciate the you almost got me. I would love to go through my cd but anyone who's interested in that. My bio is on consumers research like them going there anyway. Yeah so they can see these ads and find out more about the trying to flex but if you want to read my by. It's on the website. Were very open about. I really don't care if you're a spawn of satan at this point i love what you guys are doing. I love when you watch when we lost on squawk box On tuesday they came up so There might be people out. Oh wow Have you have you have you guys received any of our our audience going to the website and downloading the response has been overwhelming there. Youtube views or through the roof and had in particular has got over one hundred thousand views And just to see that. But also to see i think it's got thousands of likes and maybe One of them hasn't even reached a dozen dislikes yet. But i think this is really struck. A nerve with consumers regardless of their position on the political spectrum no one likes to be mistreated And and that's what's happening here. It doesn't you know right or left You know american airline taking the most people off of their airline They are losing those bags. I will anybody likes that. I will tell you you know. There's there's really very few choices coming into dallas. I mean you can find a lot of different choices but if you you just need the next flight. This is the american airlines hub. And i was flying them last weekend. They suck they suck. I mean it is it was e you know the The attitude that they have now of you touch your mask and you may not be able to fly with us for the rest of your days. It was so militant it was it was shocking. I haven't flown american in a while and it was really shocking To see that and you know the other ads that you're you're doing The coca cola ad in the nike ad. I think the really the thing that really strikes a chord. I hope with a lot of people. I know it does with me. And the rest of the people on the crew is their willingness to work in the same area where they are scooping up the wieger whitacre's and possibly using wieger slave labor to make their products. It's it's it's shameless. Absolutely and that's really what he's trying to distract from can't and won't certify With one hundred percent certainty that there aren't made in china with Without forced labor And you know the. There's evidence that they are. There was a congressional report on the issue and when congress went to act on it to pass a bill that would have banned Any products come from china made with forced labor from entering the us market. nike smith. Time money and attention. Lobbying congress To amend the bill so that their products would not be affected. So they don't wanna they don't wanna bring that up and coca cola has got a very similar problem molested nancy. Pelosi has has come out. Attacking the olympics are being in beijing Given the humanitarian and like you said the use of forced labor there to one of the top. Corporate sponsors of the beijing olympics is cocoa. so they don't they. Don't wanna talk about that. So would rather take positions on political issues legislation that they knew nothing about. It's not their expertise because they anything's better than having to Talk about these. do they take Donations are you'll five. Oh one c. Three we're an independent five. Oh one c. three organization. That's absolutely right. We protect all of our supporters right to privacy. But i can tell you that. Every single one of our supporters Is an american consumer just like you and your viewers and so So people could donate going to Consumers research dot. Org you can donate there. We're working on it okay. You should work faster Lemme ask you. You are targeting for instance with coca-cola You're targeting the the television and cable mainly in the local areas of where the ceo lives right. Well somewhat we're we're going live with national stations such as fox business and cnbc. And then of course we're live and in in the states in which these companies are headquartered georgia or again in texas and then we have web ads going up Geographically located in those areas. And then lastly we have display ads. Billboards going up to headquarters and in display ads. You know next time. You're taking a cramped uncomfortable flight with american and prayed that they don't lose your bag. Keep an eye out in the airport terminal. You may see one of our display ads right next to the american airlines logo. So the this is something. Bill o'reilly taught me. He said glen. If you ever wanna push back you don't push back at the writer at the new york times you go to the ceo level and you go africa's those guys. They attend their cocktail parties. And they don't want their face and their name Bandied about so people are saying. Jeez i don't know tug. Parker i mean here. You took ten million dollars while laid off nineteen thousand employees. They don't like that at all. Well they love the positive prospect when it goes up to politicians and activists. So we're not the one that made this personal they are They wanted to distract from their own failings. Their own substance substance subsidization of their eight your paycheck by the american taxpayer and the case of doug parker And so we're here to tell them You know we have a simple message to your corporation. that's considering Trying to distract from your own failings the the mystery of your customers by Cozying up to woke politicians or taking positions on legislation. You nothing about Where this is an ongoing campaign We're not gonna let you get away with it. We're going to name and shame and you've done three corporations any other corporations that you're considering well they said this is. This is phase one of an ongoing campaign Face to we'd be happy. Come back and talk about launch. What would the best way for one of these. Ceo's to avoid being the subject of one of your ads what would be the best practice for them to do to make sure that they're not subject. Exactly that's a great question and it's a very simple thing. Just focus on your customer focus on making quality Healthy products free from the taint of the potential forced labor being in your production chain And if you do that and you start taking positions on legislation you know nothing out that's not germane to your business Then you have nothing to worry about from the consumer i initiative because we're out here defending the consumer and if you're focused on serving them you're not a problem but if you're trying to distract from your mistreatment of your customers then you need to worry about us so in other words you'd be safe if you ran a company that didn't do any slave labor anywhere in the world You didn't take A position on legislation and made healthy products But you're still running Woke seminars that was they were teaching. You know that white people are bad. Would you still be safe. Well i think that's a reference to coca cola and As you probably know they You know some some part of their You know staff communications including includes the line called. I told the their staff to be less than white. Which course disgusting and bigoted message. We don't do Labor issues where consumer protection organization. But i will say in that context. It does raise questions about the quality control. Food food company That their quality control for communications. The staff would allow something so disgusting racist message. Just make through will. You're my favorite person of the day and Where that either. As a badge of shame or a badge of honor but Love what you guys are doing. Thank you so much. Appreciate it all right. Executive director of consumers research dot org by the way he's an attorney he was trained as an attorney and he is attorney I don't know what was said about him on on cnbc. But that's what he that's what he does and makes me feel actually better that he's an attorney because we know all the charges he knows exactly what he can and cannot say in those commercials you I urge you to go to consumers research dot org and download their ads. Post them everywhere. Watch them on youtube Rate and comment on them and and spread the word. today. I would love to see Trending what was his name again. Doug parker hashtag. Doug parker why hashtag american airlines uae. I'd love to see that trending today You can do it now yourself. Just go onto twitter or wherever hashtags are accepting. Let me tell you about our commercial sponsor. It is relief factor. Life is often incredibly busy. You don't have the time to be held back from living it because of pain. Most of the pain that we suffer especially on a regular basis is caused by inflammation in our joints. And if you've ever had it you know exactly what i mean. Inflammation is something you know. 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Just try it. Eight hundred five hundred eighty three eighty four eight hundred five hundred eighty three eighty four relief factor dot com ten seconds station. Id hey we've got some good news for you all the rest of program. We're going to be showing you people that are actually doing something to push back in my show. Prep i have a section of Just an just added this like two weeks ago section in my in my show. Prep i have corona virus. The great reset violence. Mlk blm marxist green new deal. I have all of these sections. I just added one push back and I'm happy to say. I'm going to be putting a lot of files into that one just today. You just heard somebody pushing back on these Corporations we have At least two organizations every hour that we're going to share with you and they are all covering different things and they all could use your support and just see if one of them appeals to you and it's the thing that you care about One of the things. I really truly care about is the jewish people and the way we are headed is towards another holocaust. The holocaust that happened in germany was only one of nineteen in history. It happens over and over and over again. It's why we said never again but we didn't put that into context we said never again and people think oh. Well it's never gonna happen like happened. Nazi germany it has happened. Nineteen other times in history people. Just have this thing about rounding up jews in trying to kill them. I personally think it's satanic But who am i to say. But you're starting to see it. I just had dinner with dave rubin just the other day and he said this is a week ago he said glenn i'm i'm really afraid. He said i can feel it. He said i feel it in new york. And i feel it. La he said. I'm afraid they're gonna come and they'll beat jews in the streets that they're just going to start you know. Grabbing us out of our homes are on the streets and just beating to death. I don't know if you saw the jewish man in l. a. chased by two vehicles that were waving palestinian flags and yelling allah akbar This is the second one in los angeles and i know. I know. we've gotta find out you know. The most dangerous threat is is is january sixth. I mean that was horrible Ha i think we should spend some time on this. And i also want to tell anybody who is listening that his jewish move to our area in texas. Because i don't care what anyone says. At least i and my family. We'll hide. You will protect you will stand in front of you. The this is not going to happen on my watch and there is. There are lots of people here that feel that way. Ben shapiro tweeted. This is about Israel apartheid state or some other states. Who i know. Iran has eighty three million people there. How many jews eighty three hundred iraq. Thirty nine million people there. Therefore jews apparently lived there. Syria seventeen million people zero juice Lebanon seven million people one hundred jews. Saudi arabia three four million people zero jews jordan ten million people zero jews egypt one hundred million people there ten jews apparently who lived there. That's maze gaza. Two million people zero jews palestinian authority two point seven million people choose in israel. There's nine million people. One point nine million jews with full civil rights which ones the apartheid state guy. I've never been more convinced that i'm on the right side of history. I mean it might all get us killed but on the right side of history on multiple subjects. Mainly this is the glenn beck program american financing. Nmls one eight two three four www dot nmlsconsumeraccess.org. Today is the day but day okay. it's friday yes but that means it's a day you're gonna take ten minutes call american financing and have their mortgage consultants do a free mortgage review. You call them up in ten minutes. You find if there's any way they can save you money. It's a good idea normal circumstances to save money but i'll tell you this Right now it is the best idea. It might be vital to your family. Nobody knows what the economy is going to be like in the near future but the chances are high that it might not be good so chip away on those bills. If you have high credit card debt fold that into your mortgage without resetting your loan and you will save lots of money if you are looking to refi. if you're looking for a new mortgage or a consolidation loan please. Today is the day. Call american financing eight hundred nine zero six two thousand four forty eight hundred nine zero six twenty four forty american financing dot net and don't forget blaze tv dot com slash glenn to place. It's actually covering these topics. They'll miss it. You save ten bucks off your subscription with promo code glenn for the next hour Half we're going to talk to people that different levels on different things that are standing up and asking you to stand with them and fight back into push back. I wanna introduce you to mike davis. He is the founder and president of un silenced majority on silenced. Majority dot org you can follow them at unsilent dot org you can also find them on youtube. You can follow them their youtube dot com slash unsilent. Majority follow them on parlor at un silenced dot org facebook on silent majority and you can sign up for their newsletter at unsilent. Majority dot org. I'll give those to you again if you hear my can you think i wanna be a part of that mike. Welcome to the glenn beck program. Thank you for having so tell me what on silenced majority is so we are eight new conservative. Nonprofit group i. I'm leading this along with wilt chamberlain from human events andy arabian from don juniors political Team at the end prior who works for the trump justice department. We are just We are fighting back against the woke. Mobs cancel culture. We're tired of it so we're tired of people. Being silenced retarded people being censored retired of people being clicked off of big tech platforms censored fired from their jobs. Kicked out of schools. Were just tired of cancel culture. We think it's We think it said a danger to america. It's un-american and we're fighting back we're going to try to give people a voice to fight back against this nonsense so you just so people know who you are. You're the chief counsel for nominations to senate judiciary chairman chuck grassley. You played a big role in the the the nominations of judges that i would assume that trump put in And really changed the course of america. Do i have that right. Yeah that's that's correct. i I'm from iowa. Originally and i worked for chairman. Chuck grassley last congress From two thousand seventeen to two thousand nineteen and we hoped. President trump transform the federal judiciary. I also Was a law court for justice. Neal gorsuch and i was the staff leader for the metoo fights against Then judge capital and we won that way. Okay so now what What are you planning on doing. How do you fight back without becoming cancel culture yourself. Well i think we want to do like. We did with the me to fight the problem with conservatives the problem with republicans is they just you know they sit back and take its. I think. That's the wrong approach. We think that's longer approaching it on silent majority so we need to do to stop cancel. Culture is give the left the marxist left these woke mobs. Give them a dose of their own medicine like we did with me too. We saw this with with Then candidate joe biden when he got a dose of metoo when when people pointed out that tara reade like houston of sexual assaults on staff when he was the senate judiciary committee chairman when we pointed out others. were You know were were alleged to have sexually assaulted women in the workplace You noticed how meet you. Went away or largely went away so That the democrats want to weaponize mutual against republicans they want to weaponize cancel culture against conservatives and republicans so we need to give them a dose of about us and so it goes away. So where do you think. The tender spot is where to without giving away anything Where do i mean. How do you approach cancel culture. We think cancel culture is wrong. We think it's un-american Like we say. I think it's marxist driven and so we we see examples. We saw like this macula. Mayer is a lieutenant colonel in the space force and he was just relieved of his command by the bright biden pentagon because he wrote a book about marxism infiltrating the military and he went on a podcast to discuss that book he was. He was essentially cancelled. He lost his his job over this. We saw this. Dr scott atlas a stanford medical professor at stanford medical doctor on the truck ruin virus. Toss spores who has been talking for a year about how these stay at home. These kobe stabile homeowners are not following the science not following the data at. They're actually a cure. That's much more much worse than the disease. You have people who are committing suicide depression. You have people dying. Because they're not getting their cancer screenings. He's been sounding the alarm for months and what happened. You saw the big tech monopolist twitter. Facebook apple amazon. Especially google with youtube and google search and You you see these big monopolist. They ca- the ball These big tech. They cancelled it for us. So we want to what we want to build do is organized everyday americans across this country to be able to engage to be able to fight back. Whether it's our own boycotts to counter their boycotts whether it's contacting these executives at at These big pop platforms whether it's gone contacting executives at at wo- corporations like coca cola or or major league baseball Com contact in congress and really fighting back taking off the gloves and punching back against these woke. Maha we have been asking for Conservative the gop in particular. When are you going to fight back went wide. you just keep taking it and folding So i i agree with that. But i mean if you've read sheryl atkinson's book on the cancellation in the media. Her first chapter is about how it was really organized and institutionalized With me in the fox days and they. I mean. I can't tell you how many millions of dollars it was estimated at one point one hundred million dollars on the left was spent to just discredit and destroy me. I'm still standing. But it would have been a lot different if we were fire with fire but conservatives don't like boycotts. They don't they don't like doing those things do you. How do you convince them to do it. I told republicans pretend like these democrats have cancelled. You're teatime at your country club and that will get a really really fine. What are you talking about things like that. Don't we just we need to listen. I always say that. Two wrongs don't make it right but it makes it even. We need to start fighting fire with fire. You know otherwise. We're gonna we're gonna lose our voice we're gonna lose our country to these woke mobs to these marxist woke mops we need to fight back to save our country. Yeah it's really the ideas behind our country that they're challenging. I mean if you can't debate things if you can't talk about things if you can ask an honest question and say wait a minute. Wait a minute wait a minute. This is marxism. Wait a minute hold on. Just a second. You're saying the only way to fix. Racism is to introduce another kind of racism if you're canceled because of that we lose all freedom and we're there because i know people who have kids in school who are terrified to say anything because of the what they fear might happen to their kids. That's absolutely right. I mean think about this if these woke mobs in and big tech these wolf mobs in congress of these woke mobs and academia bacon. They can cancel. They can platform a sitting president of the united states Think about what they can do to the rest of us. There is strength in numbers. So what is it that you like the grass roots of america to do if they believe cancer cancer. Cancel culture is a cancer on our society. What what are you asking people to do. What what we want people to right now where we are building our brand awareness. We just starting on monday and what we want people to do is go sign up for a go sign up for our newsletter on. Our website follows on The the website like you said was unsilent majority dot org follow us on twitter. Unsilent toward unsigned or follow us on facebook. follow us on youtube and be ready to engage. Because we're gonna start punching and punching back hard. I am glad to hear it Please come back when you are ready to detail What you're what you're going to do when you start punching you. Let us know and love to have you back. Thank you. Mike thank you. God bless founder and president. von silenced. Majority mike davis. I'm going to give you the Addresses that that. I have for you to follow them there. On parlour at highland org youtube dot com slash unsilent majority of. It doesn't show up then use unsilent. Org facebook on silence majority org and sign up for their newsletter at unsilent majority dot org back in just a minute. Thank god i feel like oh my gosh. The calvary is arrived. I feel like there's there there people starting to stand up and punch back and in new ways you can only push people too so far and before they're going to push back. Yeah if you don't organize yourself into something like this mobs will organize because if if good men do nothing evil winds and then you're standing there alone and you're like well i'm fighting and this is really really good. Hey do we have the andrew. Cuomo music we die. We know a little andrew cuomo latin. Hey so everybody's talking about this smart grilling stuff. Well let me tell you about smart grilling and if you don't believe me ask my brother. Because he's done a lot of investigation on that too. You know what i'm talking. A lot of you get axed a lot of questions about hey. Did you kill a bunch of grandma's how come all these broads come. Klay even get touched. Come in appropriately. You know what. I mean by will grill. You know you stay smart. You don't say nothing you're just write a best seller you sit back and you watch all the money roll in cooking up something great on the grill. You know what i'm saying. Okay for everybody. Who isn't part of the cuomo family you can get your smart grilling done on a wreck tech it's going to take your grilling you're smoking. Even your baking game to the next level and with wreck tack. You don't have to worry that you're gonna burn the food or you won't an amazing flavor because it self adjusts. The heat self adjusts the heat to produce a cooking experience. That is beyond anything you can do. At least i can do every single time with the taste of your favorite wood pellets flavoring. The things you're cooking you can't lose. Call them today. Follow wreck tek on all social media and sign up for their newsletter. It's wreck tech or e c t q dot com. You can check out all of their grills. I urge you to do your homework on other grills and then a compare you will not find a better grill than wreck t q dot com wreck. Tech dot com. This glenn beck program. It is friday. Hello my friend i am. I am so excited in just a few minutes Hour from now going over next door To mercury one to the new american journey Center which is all about education of history. We cut the ribbon on it. I think on tuesday and this is the first step towards a major library and And museum that will be here in texas and It's we have three hundred people coming over today to spend today and tomorrow families. Adults kids Learning about american history. In a way that you'll never ever see again It is with the vault which next week will contain The largest group of documents and artifacts from the mayflower and the pilgrims also jamestown and thanks to our many donors at mercury one who are helping invest in the future in our history. We were able to buy that And we were the smithsonian wanted it and luckily the guy who sold it to us Feels the same way about the smithsonian kind of. I think that we that we do He was afraid that if it was in government hands it might get buried or not seen and it will be seen here and it will be used to educate here The next one we do we were going to do these online about a month ago. But we thought let's get him right before we put them online. Let's make sure that they're the easiest to to watch And to learn for the whole family so We think maybe maybe after this one will be ready to have everybody. Watch it. it'll be free for you. and the next one you'll be able to sign up in come and be a part of it Live you just go to mercury. One dot org mercury one dot org You can go there. You can sign up for that. Also our leadership conference which is for Eighteen to twenty four year old adults. We have two of those two week. Intensive history lessons For anybody who has college-age will if your kids were very selective on who comes because we want to really train the leaders So the leaders can then the the people who are kind of faltering so. We're looking and very selective who comes But you come for two weeks and We're looking for the people that will the next year be our interns and the year after that Start to work for us and as teachers. I mean it's a really great thing. Also one other thing that we're doing now at the age eighty center the american journey experience We are also doing a teachers training and this is for teachers and we'll be doing it during the summer. If you are a teacher and you want to learn how to find the truth about american history. We don't tell you what the truth is. We show you the truth. You'll be able to hold the documents that prove the truth. We have over a hundred and twenty thousand documents just from the founding era. We are only surpassed by the national archives and the library of congress So it's not our word you know. If you've got another document that could show that no one beats that document. Otherwise we're going not for some guy who lived one hundred and fifty years later. We're going for their words. What was their intent. What actually happened. In their words you can find all of it at mercury one dot org and i thank every single person who has ever given a dime to mercuryone. Thank you Because we are about to really change history. Let me tell you about real estate agents. I trust dot com. Stu is in the greatest situation. He he has a house that I'm just gonna say bought for his mom. Thank god you're good son and It wasn't the right thing so he he had to sell the house. And that usually is bad. But in a buyer's market or i mean a seller's market like it is now we won't have a complete catastrophe which is all rooting for the so so he needs a real estate agent. That knows how to because there's a bidding war going on you know. Do i hear two hundred fifty to seventy five three out of three hundred three hundred to three seventy five three seventy five. I mean it's crazy what's happening here. This is when you in this moment in this market. You really have to have the right agent to know where those going on you do you do on either side. If you're in a state that sucks or a state that is like texas real estate agents. I trust dot com. The name says it all we will help you find the right real estate agent real estate agents. I trust dot com last hour of the week. Next what you were not here fusion entertainment and the glenn beck program. Hello america glad. You're here today. Is a great day to be listening to this program because we are offering solutions for you last hour. We talked about the corporations that have all gone woke. How do you. How do you help there. What do you do well. We talked to the Executive director of consumers research dot. Org consumers research dot org. And you gotta go back and listen to podcasts and hear that interview. They are taking a hard stand and they're going to do something i think is very effective. Just check it out at consumers research dot org also last hour. We talked about the cancel culture and there is a new organization that is just being put together and we kinda had it. It's if you will today on the program it is the unsilent majority. These are the people that are really upset about the cancel culture and they are doing something about it. You can follow them on par alert on silenced. Org or what. Just watch their youtube videos at unsilent majority and you can find them at unsilent. Majority dot org. If that's your thing this hour we're going to talk about the out of control spending and debt. Is there anything happening on the grass roots level. Yes there is something big. We'll get into that. This hour also critical race theory. How can you as an average parent do anything. I'm going to introduce you to our next guest. She's done something and it's incredible and we'll talk to her sixty seconds. It's friday graham. That's my time to talk. Let me tell you about our commercials. Sponsorship it's blinds dot com. I get excited when i hear the words up to thirty five percent. I liked that. I liked that. It's it's kind of exciting. It's kind like ooh. Wow i can save. my wife. didn't realize how much money we could save on blinds and shades and shutters When we were looking like two and a half years ago three years ago we were looking for something and She was looking at other sites and as she started looking at blinds dot com. And i got home and she said look at the money. We're saving by going to blinds dot com. And i said did you. Did you put in back as a promo code. What could lord woman have. You not listened to my show ever. And she's like i just forgot and so she put iraq in the pro. I know she put back in the promo code. She's she's with the tennis coach or something. Yeah for three hours every day. I'm sure we're all on that. I felt so bad for the doctor and the nurse yesterday. Then you know. I was having You know look look at my skin dermatology you know for the cancer thing that you have to do when you get older and And they were both fans and they saw me naked. And i'm like. I'm sorry i'm so sorry i mean now when you listen you're just gonna have that picture in your head and i mean i don't even want to have that picture in my head. I apologize so deeply ford anyway. So she put back into the The promo code at blinds dot com and we saved. I mean it was like almost i. i don't remember it was. It was a lot of money and she was like. Wow your name finally does something for me. Rules and restrictions may apply. Check out the savings up to thirty five percent off everything white from blind shades interior shutters and even outdoor shades. Blinds dot com. Promo code beck. So my staff tells me i'm gonna love robin steadman. She is with moms for liberty which makes me like her already. Robin welcome to the program. Hi glen how're you very good. No you're in tennessee. I am okay and you just started moms for liberty. I started the williamson county chapter of moms for liberty on april six. Okay and What brought you there or what are you guys doing. What brought me. There was your show. Actually i heard about monster liberty on your show on march first and when they talk to you. They had seven chapters in three states. And also on your show. I heard dr wen wu speak from the californians for equal rights. Isn't she great. She's amazing impressed with her and she was telling us all about the california's new ethnic studies curriculum. So later when you woo is coming to franklin tennessee to speak to are now eleven hundred strong waves county chapter of moms for liberty one to one event eleven hundred members in your county. Yes good for you robin good for you. Good for you give you credit and gratitude because your words matter you talk about a line in the sand. Where's your line. Well the williamson. County school board and our superintendent. Jason golden cross that line for me when they hired to diversity equity and inclusion firm to make policy for students. And that's when i armed with the knowledge you gave me. I moved to action. And so you have eleven hundred moms in your county. That's gotta be mad. Dad's it's gotta be an a a large number showing up to the the pta or the school board meetings we Yes yes Have have have you announced your presence at the school board. And have you seen any changes yet or you just at the beginning of this where we're in the middle of it really. The crucial point is going to be about the third week in june when the stuff is up for vote but the neil has moved already. We've been meeting with every single school board meeting just pockets of their constituents and i've been present at each meeting and we're explaining to them. What diversity equity inclusion really is. Do you really understand what you're voting for. You should also understand that. It's not a good idea. Okay so so your your next event. You haven't had you haven't had miss wu in yet. Have you when you knew she. She was here on wednesday. Not wanna one. Event was wednesday and she and several others. Robby starbuck dr gary thompson. And dr beth myers all address the parents of williamson county to educate them about trt. How to define how to articulate it and how to push back against it just fantastic and did you have any. Do you have anybody show up. That wasn't sure that what you were talking about was real did you. Did you change any minds that night or those all people who already knew i know at least one. There was a a gentleman that came forward in our panel question and answer session and wasn't convinced and the panel of speakers really took the time to explain the concept to him and he seemed to. You seem to change. His mind is great. That is great. Well keep up the hard work and if there is anything that we can do for you robin or if there's any bombs for liberty out there groups that we can help you let us know Because you guys are going to be the ones that stop critical race theory. I i read a story yesterday. You see this stupid twenty states now have laws against it. They've now passed laws saying nope. It's not going to be taught in our schools. And i saw that and i thought only twenty and i am and then my next thought was i mean there should be forty five states with that law pass and then i thought no. There should be fifty. There should be fifty and we're not even at half yet. There's a lot of education that needs to happen and you on on the bright closest to your school are going to be the ones that make the impact. Robyn thank you so much for calling. Thank you go ahead. I listened to your earlier show. And i heard that consumers research dot org and i had a pitch for you. Well we actually have anti-smoking legislation on the governor's desk and there seems to be delay in signing it. My pitch right is that to bill. Lee answered jason. Golden our superintendent. How about serve. Your students stopped serving. The woke left lobby. Excellent excellent hashtag. What's your governor's name billy. We billy hashtag bill lee. Why why are you serving. The woke laughed over your students. That's great robin. thank you so much. God bless you bet. Well that's amazing in tennessee that they can't get the governor to sign that billy. Shame on you. Well let's yeah. Let's see i mean who knows. You never never know where these things might be. A big desk might be on a corner. He's looking for it and he's like where is it. These are very largeness. All the way over there on that part of my desk is a very big desk your rights to. I'm glad we. I'm glad we we clear that up by the way something else on. Crt vody bachman has been on this program before he is an american born. I think in watts He grew up in one of the worst places in In la he had a very strong mother and she said you're going to do something with your life. And he has. He's a doctor of religion. I think he was a pastor. He is now running a university in Africa he laughed because about ten years ago. He started speaking out against critical race theory. This guy was on this long before and he's black and so the left did everything they could to destroy him. Well recently was to be here. This week So we could have him on a podcast. Live in person But he is He just had quadruple bypass surgery. He's doing really really well. And thank god because his voice is so important his voice. He is so clear on what critical race theory is and how to fight it. He has done decades of research on it. he's been following. We are a very long time. Absolute heroes oh hero hero. He's being called every name under the sun But i want you to hear this podcast. It's available now at blaze. Tv dot com slash. Glenn use the promo code glenn and save But it will come out tomorrow on youtube also wherever you get your podcast. It'll be out tomorrow at some. I i asked him How do you talk to your kids because my daughter said you know this is like eight months ago. My daughter said dad. It's not good enough to be a against racism or to not be a racist you have to be. Antiracist anti racism is a key word. And i asked him. How do you deal with that. I'll give you his answer in sixty seconds. Sponsor is goldline. I've said for years. You should be putting some of your money of your portfolio into precious metals. Well goldline is giving you a little extra incentive right now is if you need more of an incentive a lot of people including me of but money in bitcoin but i put money in bitcoin that i thought long ago and i thought you know if i'm fine with losing this amount of money You know because it's a bet well as you see. Bitcoin is down thirty to thirty five thousand now. Thirty seven last time. Seven rollercoaster right and the government is starting to come out against it and i mean it might be worth nothing. It might be worth a million dollars a coin. I don't know but i do know this. Gold is the thing that the world always runs back to. China is already putting all their gold reserves up. They have spent a lot of money. Just stockpiling gold. Because they want to be. The world's reserve currency. Russia is also stockpiling. Gold china is actually buying gold mines. Alright there we're going to return to a gold standard. It always happens. Your money is going to become worthless and the time is here now. Here's the incentive. The i seventy five qualifying. Orders placed will receive a free copy of the crisis preparedness handbook shipped directly to you. This is a book that i have read and it makes it so easy and not overwhelming. It's the best crisis prepared his handbook. I've i've ever seen You can get it now if you if you were trying to find out about gold or silver is right for you if you make a purchase self directed ira special. You call them. Ask how you can get started. You also will qualify to win that booker to take that book away With all qualified purchases. It's eight six six goldline eight. Six six goldline or goldline dot com. Do it now ten seconds station. Id all right so yesterday In my podcast. I spent some time With bottom and i asked him to explain. Anti-racism listen racism. And you know this. Popularized really By abram kindy in his book how to be an anti-racist and kennedy argues that the opposite of racism is not not racist. The opposite of racism is anti-racism. And here's what he means by that when you see racism as systemic now personal animosity as we received from from biblical perspective from a traditional perspective. Right it is the hatred of a person despising a person looking down on a person because of in particular race or ethnicity. No no kindy. And they're gonna grace theorists are arguing that racism is systemic so you seem disparate outcomes You know whenever you see disparate or unequal outcomes. You are seeing the product of systemic racism now in the traditional sense if racism is hatred of another person because of their race than what. I wanna be not racist. I don't want to have hatred towards another person in my heart because of the person's race but if racism is systemic thin. If you're just not hating people but you're not tearing down the system that is creating disparities. Then not racist is actually racist. And you got to move beyond that to antiracism which means that you're constantly problem right being critical in the oppressor oppressed mode and looking for areas in the system that are creating disparate or unequal outcomes and fighting gets that in order to get equal outcomes. So that's why a nelson mandela martin. Luther king can now be called. Racists frederick douglass absolutely they definitely can't it's amazing you know this whole idea. We started you know tearing down statues and whatnot that there's no end to that there. There's no into that I chuckled recently as a school. I think in chicago was considering renaming itself. After barack obama and they decided not to rename school because obama didn't do enough for illegal immigrants. Now listen if obama's not woken up for you nobody is and that's the point. Nobody is because you can always find some other intersection. If you will and press at that point anything. It is a fascinating conversation. He knows it he knows the history of it. We talk about it. You will understand The crt movement the critical race movement like you've never understood if you don't if you have no idea really what it's about you will. You can come at this as somebody who knows nothing about it. You can also come to it with you. Know i've i've a fair knowledge About it and i understood it much better after talking to him. By the way he's also wrote wrote the book faultlines Faultlines the social justice movement and evangelical 'isms looming catastrophe. He says the church is done. If the church doesn't stand what critical race theory is or any critical theory. He said if you don't know what that is and you have it that infection it is cancer and your church will fall and be part of the problem. He's very very clear. You can find that podcast available everywhere tomorrow Or you can find it right now if you're a member of blaze tv man. We're trying to trying to highlight people that have made a difference in few minutes. I'm i'm i'm going over to Mercury one to teach three hundred students about the history of america with david barton and his son were Is a two day Lesson so i'll be in there for for two solid days And i can't wait to meet the students in these are families and Kids and adults But also before. Had i have a meeting right after the show with richard paul evans. He's the guy who wrote the christmas box which sold i don't even know ten million Copies he. He also wrote the michael series with us and i partnered with him on michael and it's the ten year anniversary of michael. That is a. I don't even know Five ten million copies have sold already of michael v And it's such a great book and he was talking about all of the people all the kids that have read it that have been changed. And they love the characters and the main character has tarantulas. They all have something. They're made fun of in school. It's a great book. Even as an adult. I loved this book Really smart holds values true. It's great rafe. I said to him the other day. I sent him trying to convince richard paul evans to write another one as the rest of the world is trying to make him right another one in he said. Can we read it together. He was six when we started reading these six or seven and he is now a sixteen year old boy and he still wants to read michael it. It is a great series. If you've if you not read it started with your kids. Just look it up. Michael vais is the glenn. Gould grim apparently Apparently i think that sold more than cuomo's book i'm not. I'm not sure on that. We'll have to check but it may have Ray khan is our sponsor this half hour that means summer is here. You're going to be outside. You're going to be doing things or you know in texas you're going to be inside anyway. You can listen to your favorite music and you can listen to it at half the price of the apple. Iii sticks stupid sticks that stick out of your ears. I hate those things. Those are uncomfortable. They're expensive they fall out of your ears. Recon is the answer. If you feel that way about apple you're gonna love recon. They sound great. They have customizable gel tops. That come with it. That are comfortable for your in your fifth. They don't fall out cool colors half the price. They go for six hours of solid play before. They need to be recharged and fifteen percent off all their products. Right now at by recon dot com slash beck by raid con dot com slash beck blaze. Tv dot com slash. Glenn is the place to go to get that podcast from voting bottom early. Use the promo code. Glenn save ten bucks. This is the glenn beck program. Today we have covered a lot of things. It was kind of a good news program. There are you're not alone there. Are people doing big things all around the country and all you need to do is Join them if you missed any of this program go back and listen to the podcast wherever you're get your podcast the The corporations going woke fighting against it. We talked to an organization that is fantastic. And what they're planning on doing also the cancel culture another organization that just popped up. They're gonna fight the cancel culture thing then. Crt we gave you just a few minutes ago. Two ways where you can fight As a parent in your local community against critical race theory. now how about the debt. but people don't understand is the government is buying up land. They have a thirty by thirty Goal under the biden administration to look it up on the white house website. It's under the america. The beautiful Statement and you will see. They have a plan of owning thirty percent of all americans of all of america to protect it at means. They're not gonna be you drill. They're they're not going to have you use. Be a lamb land. They're protecting it And this is absolutely unconstitutional. But they're doing that. At the same time they're spending us into oblivion. We will be slaves to this debt. I think we are already but the taxes and whatever is coming our way they're going to have to destroy the dollar and reset the dollar now. The president of americans for prosperity is with us. His name is tim phillips and he is working on a grassroots organization on stop the spending spree you can find that it stopped the spending spree dot com. Tim welcome good morning. Glenn so glad that you're here It is anything that i said about the dollar. I mean roughly. I'm sure we disagree on for points. But do you see a way out for the dollar to remain the the roof the reserve currency of the world if we continue down this road there's no way at some point we're going to reach a tipping point. We're already seeing tremors gland the inflation that we're already seeing in the first one hundred days of visit ministration the anemic jobs reports two months in a row at a time when those job creation. Glenn should be exploding a lot of that. Is the spending overheated spending that the government is doing. And there's i mean it's you're exactly right. This would be the biggest recovery of all time. The fastest and biggest recovery. I think donald trump. I worried that that that v shaped recovery wouldn't happen. I think it would have if if the government was. Yes yeah it was already happening. No question about that glenn and when you look at the one point nine trillion they just spend a few weeks ago the two point three and this and i'm doing air quotes. You can't see me but i'm doing. Air quotes the infrastructure bill with the tax increases thrown into that. And don't forget a nearly almost another two trillion on what the universal pre-k and the free community college all told together another four trillion. Approximately that they're already proposing a pelosi biden and schumer It is an absolute tipping point. We're gonna lose this reserve currency we're gonna see inflation you know. I was a young boy in the late seventies. so i don't really remember. Glad i remember because my folks were in business for themselves and i remember them talking about eighteen percent Interest rates. I mean we can't do an eighteen percent loan there the killing us now and think about this. We've had artificially low interest rates at some point even if the fed tries to keep them low with inflation. Exploding if that continues glenn we're gonna see interest rates go up because the market's going to drive being in the fed tries to stop it and that means the servicing the debt we already have in that were piling up by the trillions right. Now it'll eat up an even bigger portion of the federal budget you. That's what we're looking out here. We had I think it was seven point. Six was the fed rate in the early eighties are late seventies right around there. If we had a seven and a half percent interest rate today it would be about two trillion dollars just in the servicing of the debt two trillion dollars. Our whole budget is three. That's right no way i. It's so what we're talking about here is a spiral that could literally wipe out this economy of ours. I i don't. I don't think that's an exaggeration. Certainly our prosperity and freedom would be wiped out occur tail so with so it's a. It's a crucial moment for the country. Right now on the spending and size of government it's going to be hard with forbearance with the with the if you understand what the government did and forbearance and what that's gonna mean to renters and people who own their houses who haven't paid the the the rent or the mortgage for a while I think you're going to have a lot of people that are going to be ready for the government to give them yet another handout. The republicans are almost useless in washington. How are you going to convince the american people that this has got to stop. The media is not going to help us. We know that the dominant media Sadly the corporate culture and you were just talking about what's happening there with this woken The won't move. And frankly the drift toward a partnership with government rather than freedom among a lot of big business sadly to say that what we're doing. An americans for prosperity is a congressional district by congressional district march to build grassroots support awareness to go after in a constructive way to go after this infrastructure. Bill to make sure that we're delivering tens upon tens of thousands of individualized contacts to these members offices. Because here's what we're finding the first three or four months of this new congress. They've been able to run through in the house of representatives so extreme legislation. I know you've covered it this election. Bill the proactive so much else under the radar screen and so on this infrastructure bill. We know we've got the summer ahead of us the late spring and summer to raise awareness. So we're doing rallies events and backing them with follow up advertising and further community efforts in the goal of literally driving tens upon tens of thousands of americans to call their house members. 'cause that's where this next spending bill ridge and they all originated in the house. But that's the fulcrum now. And here's the thing we're only talking about needing to flip. I believe roughly a dozen dozen and a half democrats on this big tax and spend package and so we've got to make sure the republicans are feeling pressure. because you're right on spending. They have been a disaster plan documented. It they've been vaster so left to their own devices. They will drift away. So we've gotta make sure we maintain pressure on them that they don't get a free pass here that if suddenly The democrats are in a jam on this infrastructure. Bill and they announce you know what we're gonna do a bipartisan skinny. Well structure instead of two point three well only spend a trillion two or trillions reward. Didn't didn't What's his name. Turtle head Mcdonald didn't mcconnell already. Say that he was gonna do that. They have already started talking about that. And so that's why it's not only the democrats were also making sure. And here's the thing glenn. Some of the most rock ribbed republican house members on the second amendment are on a life issues or on other issues when it comes to spending and the size of government they just go wobbly not even oddly. They just lose their way. That's why. I know you may be listening today and you may be thinking your listeners. Hey my house members great. Don't assume that make sure that if they're a republican you're calling them and you're saying literally. Hey i don't wanna see this two point three trillion dollar tax and spend infrastructure. I don't wanna see us oppose it skinny infrastructure and a trillion one or a trillion to our nation. Can't afford it. They've already appropriated so much money. Anyway they can readjust. They can adjust some of the money. They've already appropriated to focus on roads and bridges which is a core function of government. So that's why we're asking people make sure your house member is locked in and billing the your feelings you believe. Somebody's got a few dozen democrat districts. I was just in. I'm i'm still in dallas by the way i was in congressman allred's district in the dallas suburbs last nine for big event at the museum of biblical art. Great crowd of folks. They're kicking off the pressure effort to move him away from pelosi. All miss. I was in the detroit suburbs two days earlier glenn and slot in congresswoman slatkin's district and oakland county. Yeah we've got our targets that we think of the most. You know the the democrats in these swing districts that we do think we can move but we're asking listeners. Your listeners which are such a potent force to not assume their own house member even a lot of republicans who were good on so many other issues on spending. They just go south. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's the water in washington. Glenn i don't know i don't get it but republicans. This is the biggest issue where they fall. Short in my view is government spending and the size of government. Okay so so. How can how can our listeners. Get involved and and help besides making sure that their congressmen. That's the first thing. What else can they do all. We're going to be doing a lot of social media on our facebook page. You can go to americans for prosperity on facebook or the stop. The spending spree website go to that site and we'll cue into events that are coming up when they're in your area turn folks out or frankly we glenn in dallas. Last night we had folks that were driving over from other districts just to be a part of this so they could go back to their. We got a group from from san angelo along drive as you know across latin night coming this event last night because they said hey look we want to go back so we wanted to show our support in this already district. But we're going back home tonight when this is over in our republican rep out there. We're going to start a group right here on. Stop the spending spree that is getting emails and calls and contacts into these house members. Everyone has a social media footprint just about these days whether it's instagram facebook me. Whatever it is there's so many platforms parlors backed up so many make sure that you're using those platforms to to tell your friends and allies out there. Hey it's a big moment. Talk to your member about this infrastructure bill all this spending. Tell them the vote. No and make sure whether the republican or democrat. You're delivering that message that you can't just say oh it's only these twenty seven or thirty democrats we gotta worry about candidly. It's every member though. It is right. a senator. Mcconnell was wobbly on this or is already talking about some kind of skinny bill even members that may be going all their good on pretty much every issue maybe they are and how they a lot of them are on spending. It's not true. They're just they're almost all bad. So use your networks your personal footprints go to these events. You can hit this website. You'll see the events upcoming for us for example monday. I'm going to be in florida and one of the gulf coast. District's there is it. it's a. It's a national effort but locally focusing on your house member all right. Tim phillips the president of americans for prosperity you can find them at americans for prosperity. You can also go to stop the spending spree dot com if this is your issue i mean we can't we every issue can't be mine. You can support by attending these things but if this is your inch issue organiz reach out to them. They will help you. Make sure that your district has the right person in congress. This is vital for our survival. Stop the spending spree dot com. Tim thank you so much. We'll talk again. Yes sure glenn. God bless lifelock. Here's a fun thing for you to know. Only about five percent of cybercriminals out there get caught five percent many of them commit thousands of cybercrimes each sometimes hundreds of thousands each. If you're one of those people who thinks our happened to me No that's the cybercriminals think it's now i'm never gonna get caught and that's mostly true. Cybercrime is a popular thing. It's on the rise and it is time for you to get lifelock. It is important to understand that cybercrime and identity theft will affect your life now. There is one group that has been out there. I think they invented this category back in the nineties. I used to make fun of them. You want my social security number here. It is you know it was like it was crazy back in the eighties and nineties. Nobody had an idea they were way ahead. And they still lar- now. 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Just that just that's an act of journalistic malpractice just asking to interview your brother in that situation the consequences from cnn. Nothing then he brought him on the air did he ask him any tough questions at all. No they had silly skits together the entire time consequences from cnn. Nothing then when things started going bad publicly they were always going bad privately but publicly for andrew cuomo. He refused to cover it consequences from cnn. Nothing so why wouldn't he advise his brother about the sexual harassment complaints. Why wouldn't he do that. What would he possibly expect. What's going to happen from cnn. Everything he's done has been met with zero consequences. And what has happened now that he was caught not by cnn. But by the washington post advising andrew cuomo about of sexual harassment. Complaints the consequences from cnn. Nothing nothing absolutely. Nothing they treat this guy like. He's a freaking rockstar. He's a guy with no ratings and no talent and they treat him as if he is the man well. It's gonna continue to happen because the consequences from cnn. Over and over again are nothing.