19 Episode results for "Bernard Hermann"

Bernard Herrmann in the round

Naxos Classical Spotlight

19:56 min | 10 months ago

Bernard Herrmann in the round

"I. Walt whitman heard that you ask for something to prove this puzzle. The new world and to define america her athletic democracy. Therefore i send you my poet that you behold and hello and welcome to another naxos podcast featuring music by bernard hermann as played by washington. Dc's post classical ensemble. All under the leadership of executive director. Joe horowitz and conductor on hill or on ios in a minute. I'll have an interview. With your horowitz about the music of bernard hermann. But first here's a bit more of the radio. Play whitman. you whoever you are you author or son of england you of the mighty slavic tribes. You deem descended black. Define sole african new norwegian swedish dame icelander. Roman neopolitan new greek. You of china you'll foot. Warm pilgrim welcoming faraway sparkle of the minarets of mecca for some of our listeners. The question first. Question is who is bernard. Hermann and what does he best known for so probably all of our listeners. Know bernard hermann but mainly without knowing it because bernard hermann was the supreme hollywood composer of his generation. Think of your favorite hitchcock film and most likely. The saudi scored by bernard hermann unthinkable. Without the music bernard hermann. Whether it's vertigo or psycho or north by northwest also scored citizen kane. He scored over fifty films. One of the things should he be known for. Because i knew him until you started talking about all these other things. I knew him mostly as just a film composer. So what are we missing. What your knowledge of him is of course. Typical and no-one regretted that than bernard. Hermann him so he was very irascible and charismatic. Fellow and infuriated that he was stigmatized as hollywood composer a because he had a very high regard for film. Music is well composed and be because he knew himself to be a concert composer of consequence. I find his concert. Works as impressive as those of just about any american composer i can think of of his generation and the one that impresses me the most is his clarinet quintet which happens to be my favorite chamber music by any american composer. He also is a big symphony is a big cantata moby. Dick yes had opera weathering heights as string quartet He has sinfonietta for strings. And then thirdly he was the most important composer for radio drama and of course we've forgotten that because we've forgotten radio drama but radio. Drama job was known to all americans in the thirties and forties. Radio was the first instant mass medium d radio dramas of corwin would be listened to by as many as sixty million americans nearly half the american population which tells us that in its day. Radio was more ubiquitous in more influential in any subsequent mass medium even more than television imagine an audience of sixty million people. I believe a leaf of grass is no less than the journey. Work of the store. And the piss meyer is equally perfect and a grain of sand and the egg of the rain and the running blackberry turin. The palm of and the narrowest tinge in my hand puts to score all and depressed hid surpasses in these and the mouse. It's miracle enough to for long. Whether i walk the streets of manhattan or wade with naked feet along the beach just hit the law. Her or stand under trees in the woods or talk by anyone. I love a radio play dries on different aspects of one's imagination being an audio only presentation. Yeah it's a genre unto itself and at the same time you can see that it was a schoolroom. Herman the film composer he honed. His craft learning how to use music to set a mood or to accompany the spoken word composing for radio beginning in his early twenties. Another thing you need to know about radio drama is it was a crucial component of the home front during world war two. It rallied the patriotic cause. And when we're talking about world war two we're talking about franklin delano roosevelt. Who is a master of the radio medium. Every american listen to his fireside chats and almost as many americans. Listen to norman. Corwin radio dramas. They weren't washing the dishes. They were talking. They were reading books. They weren't taking a bath now. They weren't looking at their cell phones. It were sitting around the radio and just like they used to sit around the fire and read poetry. They will sit around the radio. And listen to norman korman's radio drums. Only see your separate flags of nations flown to various chips but reserve a specially for yourself and for the soul of man one flag about a spiritual woven signal for all nations emblem of man innate above deck token of all brave captains and all intrepid sailors meats and all that went down doing their reminiscent of them a hindu universals weaving all the time or all breeds. Hate lose all seen all now this new album it features a a wonderful radio drama about while whitman. When did you first hear this piece. When where did you discover it. I became aware of herman of course through his film music which seemed to me a very very high creative achievement. And i can't remember precisely when i stumbled into the clarinet quintet the that was a eureka moment for me because the clarinet quintet deserves to be in declaring it repertoire. ensemble alongside the bombs quintet in the mozart quintet. It's that so. This was a mind-boggling discovery. And as a result i was very eager to do or herman festival in dc. Post classical ensemble is headquartered in twenty sixteen. We did a month. Long bernard hermann festival in collaboration with the national gallery of art in the american film institute. In which many films were screened by a music was played. It was obvious to us that we should do something with these radio. Dramas i had no idea. None of us did what impact whitman would have been live performance and when we perform this thing live. It was a revelation we did realize the magnitude of what we discovered and my immediate reaction and so was it off tells reaction who conducted on her door. News is this piece can live. This is a viable concert. They can be performed in live performance by orchestras. It's it calls for narrator Strings precaution and piano. Listen out there. I stay only minute past. Present will have filled them emptied them and proceed to fill my next fold of the future poets to come auditors singers musicians to come not today is to justify me and answer what i am for you. A new brood native athletic continental greater than before known arouse for you must justify me. I myself but right one or two indicative words for the future. But i had this piece the whitman. What kind of resonance has in today's world. Well that's a leading question. If i ever heard one you can answer it yourself. If you just reflect the walt whitman celebrated Democracy in the terms that we emphasized today inclusivity and diversity and he also emphasized the responsiveness. The stem symbol responsiveness of the government to the individual. So he's trotting out an ideal of the american state which spoke to people during the war. I gained forty four in the president. Franklin delano roosevelt. and today. we're fighting another war. It's the pandemic in the president. Donald trump so you listen to whitman today and you can answer that question to pearson. I see not only not only liberties nation but other nations preparing. I see tremendous entrances and exits new comedy shows the solidarity of races. I see that force advancing with irresistible power on the world stage. I see freedom completely armed and victorious and perry with law on one side and peace on the other. Stupendous trio. All issuing forth against the idea of cast. What historic steam new models. Are these we so rapidly. I see men marching and counter marching swift millions. I see the frontiers in boundaries of the old aristocracies broken. I see the landmarks of european kings removed. Never was such shop questions fast. As this day never was average man. His soul more energetic more like a god is daring. Foot is on land and sea everywhere. He colonizers the pacific. The archipelago's with the steamship the electric telegraph the newspaper and our wholesale engines of with these and the world spreading factories. He interlinks all geography all lands. So i i mentioned didn't state are twenty sixteen month long. Kerman festival was the first ever attempt to present herman in iraq. The film composer was hurting the film. Composer herman the concert composer. Herman the radio compulsion and we also spent some time considering. Herman conductor which is an interesting topic in itself so this cd is a microcosm of that festival it samples herman the concert composer it samples from the radio composer in samples from the film composer. And if you listen to those seventy minutes you come away with. A picture bernard hermann. That's damned impressive. You cannot ignore bernard hermann as a participant in the american musical experience after you experience the cd in my opinion because all three of these are peak. Achievements the clarinet quintet as i said. It's my favorite work for chamber ensemble american composer. The radio play is a masterpiece of its sean. And then a case of psycho. We're doing two things were sampling music for famous film. It's really made by. It's news and we're also presenting herman's own symphonic synthesis which is very very little known. You vote concert in her this here the psycho music almost invariably. What you're hearing is psycho sweet cobbled together from in the film by someone other than bernard. Hermann it's very little known that he created his own symphonic narrative which is not that it's an integrated composition composed in nineteen. Sixty score was lost so it took john mount cherry. The conductor to using and using the recording in herman made to reconstitute to score. And now if you're an orchestra and you wanna play psycho. This is what you should play. Even though orchestras will continue to reform the zyppah sweet. Simon rattle open his berlin philharmonic season of years ago with the psycho narrative. And it's the psychotherat of did on our cd You have been listening to music by bernard hermann performances. By the post classical ensemble conducted by on hill. Gillard donnez and an interview with joe. Horwitz the soloists in the whitman radio. Drama were william sharp. Whitman murray horowitz as the stranger and anna sophie a nicely as the child. The album includes the radio. Play whitman as reconstructed by christopher husted and also includes psycho narrative for string orchestra and souvenir devoy is for clarinet and strings naxos cadillac number eight point. Five five nine eight eight three. That's it for this podcast to go. Here's a bit of the souvenir voyage. I'm raymond boucher until next time. So long for now

bernard hermann whitman Hermann Joe horowitz bernard walt whitman herman hollywood norman korman Herman horowitz mecca hitchcock corwin kane franklin delano roosevelt turin Corwin american film institute england
King Kong (1933) w/ special guest Steven Smith

Classic Movie Musts

1:23:09 hr | 10 months ago

King Kong (1933) w/ special guest Steven Smith

"I'm max parrilla mrs classic movie musts. Where every week we break down at classic movie looking to provide artistic insight and historical context at the very least. We'll talk about what makes these movies classics. Classic movie must release his every friday ready to complement your weekend. Movie viewing plans. Thank you for joining me this week. As we discussed the original king kong in this episode in our feature presentation. We welcome stephen smith to the show author of the book. Music by max steiner. The epic life of hollywood's most influential composer and needless to say we'll be getting into one of the most influential movie scores of all time mud. First let's get into this week's opening credits are film. This week is king kong. Which was directed by marian seat cooper and ernest b showed stack and was released in nineteen thirty three king. Kong stars fay wray and robert armstrong in new york harbor. Filmmaker carl denham known for wildlife films in remote and exotic locations charters captain angle horns shipped venture for his new project however he cannot secure an actress for a female role that he has been reluctant to disclose searching in the streets of new york city. He finds ann darrow and promises her the adventure of a lifetime. The crew boards the venture and sets off during which the ships i mate jack driscoll falls in love with an denim reveals to the crew that their destination is in fact skull and uncharted territory of which he has come to knowledge from a norwegian ship. Captain who saved some natives of the island from a canoe although they died before reaching land he alludes to a monstrous creature named khong rumored to dwell on the island the crew arrives and anchor offshore. They encounter a native village separated from the rest of the island by an ancient stone wall with an enormous wooden gate. They witness a group of natives preparing to presumably sacrifice a young woman termed the bride of kong by confining her on the other side of the wall the intruders spotted and the native chief stops the ceremony when he sees an he offers to trade six of his tribal women for the golden woman. They rebuff him and return to the venture at night. The natives kidnap and from the ship and take her through the wall gate and to an altar where she is offered to king kong and enormous gorilla like creature calling carries terrified and into the wilderness. As denham jack and some volunteers enter the jungle in hopes of rescuing her. They are ambushed by another giant creature. A stegosaurus which they managed to defeat after facing a carnivorous brontosaurus and kong himself. Jack denham are the only survivors a tarantula. Rex attacks and kong mccown kills it in battle. Meanwhile jack continues to follow them. While denham returns to the village for more men upon arriving kong's layer and is menaced by large snake like creature which kong kills while kong is distracted killing a giant bird. Like that tried to fly with an jack reaches her and they climbed down vine dangling from a cliff ledge when kong notices and starts pulling them back up the to fall unharmed they run through the jungle and back to the village where denim angle horn and the surviving crewmen are waiting. Khong following breaks. Open the gate. Despite the huge beam closing it and both the crew and the natives try to push it closed before he relentlessly rampages through the village on short denim now determined to bring comback alive knocks him unconscious with a gas bomb shackled in chains kong is new york city and presented to a broadway theater audience as king kong. The eighth wonder of the world and jack are brought on stage to join him. Surrounded by a group of press photographers khong believing that the ensuing flash photography as an attack breaks loose the audience flees in horror and is whisked away to a hotel room on a high floor but cong- scaling. The building soon finds his hand smashes through the hotel room window. Shoves jack aside and abducts and again khong rampages the city as an screams in his grip he wrecks a crowded elevated train and then climbs the empire state building at its top. He is attacked by four. Airplanes calling destroys one but finally succumbs to their gunfire. He gazes it and one last time before falling to his death. Jack takes an elevator to the top of the building and reunites with an denim arrives and pushes through the crowd surrounding concord in the street policeman remarks that the planes got him denim tells him no. It wasn't the airplanes. It was beauty. Killed the beast. King kong had a budget of six hundred seventy two thousand dollars and it brought in five point. Three million at the box office adjusted for inflation. That would be a budget of thirteen point. Four million and a box office hall of just over one hundred and six million dollars. Now i'd stay away from skull island if i were you because it's time for our feature presentation. Classic movie must is supported by listeners. Like you over at patriotic dot com slash. Classic movie must over there for your support. We give you access to our to exclusive podcasts. Classic movie must double feature which is all about more recent movies destined to be thought of as classics. We've got a great episode on manque coming up for you and in our other show max's movie must get my top five movies for all sorts of listeners supply topics you also get vote in our monthly polls and a bunch of other perks so please read about those perks and consider supporting the show at patriotair dot com slash classic movie. Musk's thank you so much now onto our guest joining us for today's feature presentation. Is stephen smith author of the book. Music by max steiner. The epic life of hollywood's most influential composer stephen welcome to the show. Thank you so much. It's nice to be speaking with. Max about max so i know we'll try not to confuse the audience about you know what really saved the max's for the subject are awesome conversation today. I am I'm so excited to have you on the show because in fact i've recently kind of talked about how we do a a show that's exclusives for supporters of the show and recently we talked about my top five favourite film scores of all time. And how. I love talking about music. It's such an amazing aspect of the movies. We love. But i don't have the same language to talk about it. In the way that i do about movies so to have an expert like yourself Is going to be so wonderful to really dive into one of the most influential scores of all time. Well thank you. Yeah i love talking about and it is a challenge but a fun one breaking things down in a way that everyone understands a trying to give some insights into how people like max. Steiner and subject of my first book bernard hermann manage to create these scores. That almost reach us on a subconscious level. Lao the time sometimes very much on the conscious level but just work on us in a very special way. yes indeed And max max steiner is you know one of the one of the greats one of the first to really make Hollywood scores like we know them and king kong. It's such an iconic movie. And i feel like it's not always obviously one of the most influential scores of all time but at the same time it really set the ball you know. Put the ball in motion for hollywood music. Like we know it right. Yes and part of the fun of writing. The first real biography of steiner which took about five years was the fun of really a pinning down the story. Because sometimes max is called the inventor of film music. Some people say no. He isn't and i think it's something like what w griffith did with different techniques like the close up or orson welles did in citizen kane where he took max to all these different ideas or out in the eighth or about giving themes different characters and other things we can get into orchestration to give a certain kind of color and mood and he combined them all he was really the i put all of these elements into a kind of vocabulary at the dawn of the sound era in film and put together what we think of is the modern film score. So there's a very direct line between max steiner and john williams score like king kong and star wars and and i. It's fun to note that when they the editors of star wars were putting together their temp track of music for that film. They used samak's steiner to convey to john williams. Anyone who was seeing that early cut without music what the mood would be like. So yeah max's. Not max not only gave us the the template of the modern film score. But he's still very much think influencing the writers of today whether they know it or not indeed and just as a preface here to our listeners. That we've got a little extra something special Not only do. We have an expert in the house. You have very kindly organized a series of key music clips from the movie of the score so that we can really you're able to discuss it and highlight it very specifically because obviously you know we've all seen this movie but it's not always easy to pick out exact moments of the score and so i just want to thank you in advance that we're doing something really special today that we get to hear these music clips and then break them down and really discuss them. In relation to the film. Aunt sure will that it was a lot of fun. And we're hearing the score in a way that max wished that he could have heard the score. And by that. I mean we're not going to hear the original soundtrack due to budget limitations in the technology of nineteen thirty three he only had roughly half musicians he he would have in a perfect world although he sure at the most the biggest sound out of them but about two twenty five years ago or so to friends of mine. The conductor william stromberg and a dear friend. Jon morgan who knew max steiner they reconstructed the parts of the original score for king kong and they did the first complete recording of the score even with some short music. That was taken out as the cut changed. And i highly recommend that. Cd of the. It's the one and only complete a recording of the king kong score. You'll find on amazon conducted by william. T. stromberg awesome So i guess before we get to the music clips. I mean here. We have this story about a director swinging for the fences on a movie that is going to redefine the industry and take him to new heights. we've got a pretty similar back story for this movie itself. Why don't you kind of share with the listeners. A little bit about how this movie came to be before we even get to the music itself absolutely and you're so right because i thought it i you were speaking about our ko and the people making this film because this the the story of king kong really does parallel making a kong in many ways King kong was released in nineteen thirty three. And i don't it had only been about three. And a half years since the hollywood studios all agreed to stop making silent films and concentrate. Only on talkies and archaic did pretty well out of the gate. They were the youngest of the big studios. They opened around. Nineteen twenty eight and by nineteen twenty nine. They were doing well and then they just couldn't get it right. They just released a series of bombs or they spent too much on the good movies so they couldn't make money and if you think the plot of singing in the rain if it's the truth is not really two different from the comic version. We see in that that movie musical about the confusion of studios at the beginning of the sound era and one thing that surprises people a Because we don't really look at many movies from nineteen thirty to nineteen thirty one. Is that around that period of thirty and thirty one. There isn't much music in movies. That hollywood had cranked out so many movie musicals. When talkies i came in that audiences were sick of them by nineteen thirty thirty one so hollywood pretty much stopped making musicals and then when it came to dramas and comedies even though people had been watching movies since the very beginning silent movies with a score played along them when the realism of dialogue and sound effects. In in real sound recording was added to movies producers. studio chiefs would say well. We can't have it at any background music because people will wonder where is the music coming from and that was the end when you look at some of the films. I think there are two that our listeners will be familiar with. And that is the great universal films frankenstein dracula. They don't have music after the main titles and there are definitely sequences in these wonderful films. That would have. I think greatly enhanced by having score but it simply was not done with very few exceptions And yes there. Excuse me there were a few exceptions. Like hell roach comedies of our gang and laurel and hardy howard for smart enough to think music was fine. But it's kind of wallpaper music. They would take lot of the same hughes. Just edit them. You know no matter what was happening on screen. Well max. steiner was the music director at r k. O by the time king kong was being made and kong was pretty much made in the euro nineteen thirty two and by that time. Arcadio was on the verge of not only bankruptcy which you could get out of like completely closing and locking doors for good shuttering up because they simply didn't have much money left and Very briefly max's life before hollywood wasn't extraordinary. One he was born in vienna in eighteen eighty eight. He was the third generation in this a legendary theatrical dynasty in vienna that had connections to Well all the great classical composers had their works premiered. The theaters of the family now ran and Max knew as a child. The composer johann strauss junior who the blue danube. And all those famous waltzes. That's the wall sweeter in two thousand one and and max was really born into this life of privilege. His father gabor created this massive amusement park in vienna called venison vienna that was a recreation of venice italy in the park and it had gondolas in canals and palazzo's but inside those plots were gift shops and wrestling dens and concert halls. And then there were roller coaster rides and and it was max's father gabor. Who put the famous ferris wheel that we know in love for movies like the third man and before sunset so and gabor max's father put in as far as what. I can tell us. The first movie theater in vienna inside his park in eighteen ninety six just after the lumiere brothers started showing films. So that's really incredible story and he bounced. Max bounced around the world for decades musical director in europe and then he when world war one breakout being austrian. Was not a good thing to be if you lived in london as he did because suddenly he was an enemy alien simply because he was on the wrong side of the war and he pretty much fled with fifty dollars in his pocket to a on a ship to america partly because america was not involved in the world war one at the time and max had to work his way up from bottom again he became a major musical director on broadway for shows by gershwin jerome kern and oscar hammerstein all the top people on broadway. So when talkies came in in one thousand nine hundred ninety nine are. Ko very shrewdly was looking for talent much of it from new york not only actors who could speak welsh from the stage but people who knew their way around music and max was hired into a fairly low position at our kalem with months. He was running the music department. So that's the back story to the fateful year of nineteen thirty two when king kong is being made and the studio is almost out of money and the thing that that is so remarkable to me and a story that really hadn't been told i think in full so lucky to get to find the the original studio documents and go through them was the fact that david o cells nick who was in his twenties at the time and yet his father had worked in the film business. David was steeped in the movie. Business david o cells necklace put in charge of production in our ko. And he and mac steiner agreed. That movies would be a lot better with the right. Underscoring in scenes that dialogue and dramas and comedies. So in the months leading up to king kong a celtic encouraged max to write full orchestral scores for movies like the most dangerous game and bird of paradise very exotic Celsius story joel. Mccrea and critics love these scores and they audiences and critics for the large part embraced. This added aspect and it meant that audie that the characters on screen didn't just have to talk continuously. The you let the movies breathe the way they did in silent film because there could be music and that led up to king kong and sells. Nick left are ko from which better offer from his father in law louis b. mayer at mgm. The tiffany were movie studios as they called it. The big one. That didn't have any money. Problems salesman left to make maria at mgm. But he left are with this gift. In a way of king kong and king kong was really the brainchild of one of cells knicks Right hand people at our o. A man named marian c cooper and marian c cooper really is the model for carl denham because cooper had this incredibly adventurous life. You'll have to read about that elsewhere. But he basically lived the life. Carl denham the robert Robert armstrong character at kong making movies in the jungles and being fearless being a pilot And cooper had this vision for this movie that ultimately was about a prime a character from the jungle a giant gorilla that would be able to to destroy anything except modern civilization that would ultimately bring him down and that was the story. That sells nick allowed cooper to tell hooper co directed cong- he supervised the writing of it. He produced it. He's even in the cockpit of the plane that shoots down king kong at the end. That's how much he was in this movie and and with his partner ernest showed sack. I should say. And a myriad cooper max steiner hit it off immediately and when kong's filming was finished the story goes ended. I believe this to be true. That are was so nervous. The inevitably the new york money people were saying. Do not spend another dime on. This movie of this could sink us if it fails. We're done don't spend any money on music. Just take stock. Music and hoover in max steiner agreed that there was no such thing as stock music for king kong and that is wonderful as king kong was watching the stop motion animation. Without the right sounds of didn't work completely. And they had a genius in murray speed. Act the head of our. Ko sound department creating the sounds of kong. But it still wasn't complete. So mary anne cooper said to to steiner maxi right. The best score you can. And if they won't pay for it. I will and max took him at his word. His whole life had been leading up to this moment studying classical music learning american music. While being a broadway conductor learning the system of writing different themes different characters in different situations that have been used opera by people like richard wagner and others and he synthesize all of this. And billy wrote the first great film score It wasn't the first score to have a score. Wasn't the first movie to have this kind of score under maximum doing that for few months as i mentioned our kale it's the first classic film that we remember. The has a great score and there is no question that it encouraged many young people to become film composers. Many have gone record is that it's a favorite score of danielle men and michael. She aquino decide to recent people so and macs just an yet a little bit of time to which helps so what. I thought it'd be fun to discuss. Basically following the chronology of the movie is how he looked at this film a movie that had the potential for greatness and need that really needed music and how he worked his way through it and why it works for us and so now it seems like the perfect time to get into it and you have a whole chapter devoted to this film in your book and rightfully so because it is so foundational to this industry but when i love some of the details in your book i mean again that there was a tremendous amount of concern about how this film looked that it wouldn't be taken seriously right and You know. I've talked several times about this. Show that there's there are movies where you could turn off the picture and you know. Listen to the soundscape and learn the story just based on listening yes conversely. This is a movie that if you turned off the music and the soundscape it would be i think hugely different experience and while this film is a feast visually because it is the i mean the timeless quality. What makes this film so eminently watchable today so long after its creation is the sound the it's the music that is timeless yes it music and the sound effects i mean i am still staggered by the fact that says three and a half years after sound was basically a level where worked for studios just three years later they were really all attempting the equivalent of a marvel movie within the really intricate soundtrack by the end of the movie by the time they're in manhattan at the end they were pushing the technology as far as it could go about how to composite live action and stop motion in ways that had never been done before and then writing this kind of score which in its intricacies had never been done before indeed You've already mentioned. I mean obviously max history working working on broadway and things like that and you mention his book. This is not a man who's necessarily super interested in the world of fantasy. Movies are stories but it is a man who is deeply concerned with character and with themes yes and all of that right. It's it's all there in the opening main title theme. So why don't we just take a minute. We're gonna listen to it. And then you and i can come back and really get into a piece of music that tells the whole story right up front. Yes absolutely and i'll just tell people before they listened that the first three notes who here are the kong theme and this is very important. Max wants to put this. Burn this music in your brain because you're going to hear it A lot in the movie. I love how at the beginning of this main title. You'll hear it very dramatically. Then you're going to hear the story told in miniature the sacrificial music and then listen at the end of this queue and you'll hear honking again played with great tenderness because max really understood what. This movie was about new. That as frightening as kong is when we need him. We're going to be really on his side by the end of this tragic story. Okay and here is the main title theme Okay so stephen. Another one of these amazing details from your book and it makes sense but it's not always obvious right. You're a man who's gotten to go through the notes and everything. That max steiner wrote this amazing piece of music. Last is that right. that's right yes and that's true. A really most movie main titles is that by that time will for one thing. The credits aren't ready until the end they're working out. Who gets credit. And all of that. And fortunately he had worked out all the themes the theme for calling the theme for and the themes of the the sacrificial dance and he was able very quickly to put together. And max had a great sense of humor. And i was very lucky as viagra for that. He fills his score pages that he wrote in hand with different colored pencils to sort of indicate. Different lines. like this is the main theme and this is a supporting line but in addition to writing all these intricate musical notes. He's writing personal notes in sentences all over the paper. And sometimes they are indications what instruments he wants he'll wright jokes and the last page of kong is just filled with his explosion of joy that they got through it and he knew i am really sure that he knew that something unique had been created and how thrilling it was going to be when you look at his notes at the end of the main title. Yeah and you can't help. But feel that the passion for the music that each character and their musical themes that we understand over the course of this movie that he's already lived the course of this movie. It all comes together in this opening title sequence that washes over us. That as you say as you follow it beat by beat it gives us the whole trajectory and you know to your point earlier flashing ahead. To some of the greatest blockbusters of all time That have scored that tell us the trajectory of their movies right up front. I mean this. These are the building blocks. This is where these all come from. It's amazing to see or hear. Excuse me yeah exactly. I mean the the star wars main titled does a very similar thing brilliantly which is put you in the mood of the world of movies. Have the it tells you what what the world is gonna feel like that. It's heroic all the things that john williams does so brilliantly. That's what max is doing here for a great adventure versus just a sort of generic music scene that a lot of the movies At that time had at the beginning before before the music stopped completely indeed and then another you know excellent point that you make in your book you come out of this music sequence which is so powerful. It is so affecting right off the bat. I mean you really sucks you right into this movie. But then the brilliance is is that we go. How many minutes with essentially no music now. Yeah exactly it is. It's in my book but it's something like sixteen or eighteen minutes. It's the whole sequence or the series of sequences in new york in manhattan. When carl denham is searching for his leading lady and trying to get the ship the ventura harbor before the authorities noticed. How many gas bombs. He's loaded on other weaponry and apparently. That's that choice to have no music until the ship was approaching. Skull island was a bit of a surprise for marion. C cooper and max was so astute. He wasn't one of those composers who felt like well. Thor's time onscreen. I'm gonna write music. He said let's get to the island. Let's it's all of the everything in new york is realistic. Let's play up the realism. But no music and then when it goes into the fog and the first music in the film he called a boat in the fog It's just a fabulous transition that very subtly takes us almost like a piece of of debussy from classical music with harp and and woodwinds. This beautiful piece of eerie piece takes us into the world as they approach. The island in the island is the name of q. I think that we're going to hear a little of next. And this is when we first see skull island. And i think it's again it's it's an example of how max who sometimes people thought a road or too much music later in one or brothers. Jack wonder liked the big sound and the brothers movies. Save bette davis were very melodramatic. But max was very sensitive to not writing big music when it wasn't appropriate and i think it'll be fun for listeners to hear. How is the ship approaches skull island in this short extra from this. Cue we hear this quiet ominousness. We hear these low trombones basically are playing one note and then one note higher one the higher and i think that ascending quality of the of the trombone notes is referencing in a subtle way the height of the wall. They're seeing from a distance the scale of it and indeed. This whole movie is about vertical. Things it's the giant wall it's kong. It's alternately the empire state and that's the kind of thing that max would intuit is a composer he didn't necessarily think these things out intellectually. But i think it's really clear in score he's thinking about how we're getting a sense of scope and scale and height. I love that. I love it here. All right so let's jump into it because it is such an arresting bit of music that i music of the film itself. Here is the theme for the island. Okay so there. It is and i love this bit of music because i love of how it is introduced in the film as you say we come out of what is a rich sound design but it is the sounds of the city and then leave that behind. Go into this fog. Yeah and it is the Tation into a whole different world to be out that music hits we are now in this adventure exactly and then then max. Configure can focus on something that he did really magnificently throughout his entire career and that was to write different themes for different characters. Will any composer can do that. But his genius was to develop those themes in change them as the story went along or if we were looking at character a we might hear the theme for character. Be sadly and we know without a word of dialogue. That actor is thinking about that other person so he he really trained his whole life. As i say for this moment right this kind of score and i thought it would be fun to hear a too short examples. The theme he wrote for darrow. The fairway character Max being via knees he wrote a lot of Attractive waltzes of which a lot of viennese composers did and we we. I hear ends theme. During her scene with jack driscoll bruce cabot when they had that little secret love scene on on the deck of the ship and max writes this lovely waltz theme for and the we hear on the deck. When she's with jack driscoll and It's just kind of beautiful theme that he would write throughout his career. And i think it's even see. It does capture. Fay wray's character. And max was the kind of composer who could both beat inside the character. He's writing for very much. Feel the emotions of an or Rick blaine casablanca humphrey. Bogart's character are all as they davis characters. He'd be inside the character these also the audience member Having a response that character the same time. And i think in this lovely theme for an we hear that well. That's the only time in the movie. We really here hence theme. Is this kind of attractive thing. Because within moments of that lousy and jack driscoll walks away and is of course abducted and taken to the island to be a sacrifice for kong and most people who watch. The movie won't realize that max keeps playing in theme when we see her when she is in peril later but he takes the same note of that pretty walls and he turns them into what is really the musical equivalent of a scream of terror so I thought it'd be fun to your theme. The nice way enhance theme the way we hear it shaped and developed through much of the rest of the movie here you have it and theme sweetly and then a little bit more scary so these clips and this is exactly what i mean about having someone who really has the insight into the intricacies and the subtleties of music. Because i wouldn't have consciously made the connection of how teams is. I mean if certainly i. I understand enhance theme in. Its more traditional love moment on the boat but then how it resurfaces and is morphed by the situation of her being abducted. I mean that's the kind of music work that really to me. Sets this movie apart makes it as timeless and enjoyable. It is to watch twenty twenty and will be for far into the future. It's these kind of moments that affect us as the audience without aren't necessarily being as aware as some of the other more You know overt musical moments in the film exactly and i think that a another composer bernard hermann said. The composer's first job is to get inside the drama. I think one of the the second or third jobs is to create that kind of congruent if you will musical sound kind of consistency and even though we don't realize that's an seen on some level where we're syncing that all. This does connect in some way. I do think that absolutely. And of course the film really centers on two key musical themes that of an and that of khong himself and of course. From this point onwards we're going to start to see more and more as we heard a little bit in in main title. The the melding of those two musical cues in those motifs. And that's that's where things really start to get interesting. But of course we need to get kong's theme in full i and as musical moments go and movies The introduction of kong hard to get better than it is. This was the maker break scene for the movie. And marian c cooper max. Steiner knew that if the audience laughed when they saw khong the the jig was up they were. This movie was not going to be a success in our ko probably would not have survived. And i. it's a great sequence of course when the when there's at great ringing of the gong at the top and we see and tied up the stakes and there's rather along their silence. We hear her sort of whimpering for more crying for a moment. And then i think so so imaginative ineffective that max does is before we see com. We hear his footsteps musically. You hear this fantastic pattern. You're about to hear and it's accompanied in the film version. Not here but on the film soundtrack by marie speed max you know genius ahead of its time. Sound design were sort of like ren class in the david. Fincher movies today. Murray speed ac is combining animal growls. He's playing the backwards as well as forwards. He's putting his own voice into it. He's just absolutely doing these mind-blowing things and he is working hand in glove with max. They were partners on this movie to make sure that the sound effects in music never fought each other. But here you only hear just the music. But i think that you will be able to picture this scene when you hear these fabulous footsteps and then kong's theme And then a little bit of ann's theme in in the the great hugh for calms entrance heritage callings. And i love your point that the sound work in the music are never fighting each other. And there's this is the first great example and we'll get to another one Later there are several but where they really. It is difficult to tell where one starts and one begins m hearing the the tremendous footprints of cong-. Is that the score. What's happening but it's terrifying. And he's exactly right. It puts the audience into the exact state of tension and fear that they need to be for this not to be silly no and just the opposite of what the you those worried about the score. What they feared was they would take audiences out of the movie. I think that this kind of this music just like in every i go back to the example of of hero movies today. You need that music to make us believe that this larger than life world is real. You know it sounds counterintuitive but you need invisible music to lift us into this universe a fantasy and horror absolutely absolutely we then proceed through the abduction of and she's being taken through the The jungle and i want to get your thoughts on A sequence that it always strikes me And by all means. I'm jumping a little bit ahead. If there's any moment that you wanna talk about by all means let us know the fight with the t. Rex because again we have now a scene in which there is no music. What what you might think of as a scene. That could very will do with some of epic of fight between a giant gorilla t rex dinosaur but it isn't there it certainly gives us this fascinating moment to breathe and really live in the sound effects of the of these animals themselves. But i'm curious if what you think here because to me what it always kind of you know. We don't have that music early on in the film in new york because we are not yet in the fantasy world and then you have this fight scene and to me. It's it's always strikes me that in this moment this is the fight between the animals and men the men in the obviously an have no real part in this and the music really is the connection between this man world and this animal world in this fantasy scape and if those two pieces aren't there it's kind of like the music it's left behind and it makes the fantasy all the stronger than when we have those two come into conflict again. Yes yes it is interesting again. It's a testament to marian c cooper and max. How many good decisions. They made that just just when everyone was figuring out how to do the most simple version of something they were like ten chess moves ahead doing something. They're composer might do today. And by that. I mean they said we need to stop the music somewhere this meet. This movie has been building from is a crescendo. From the time they arrive on the island answer to being in the jungle skull island only sequences. We need to stop. People might just become exhausted before we even get to the new york finale. And at i. A cooper and steiner thought they would have no music during the log seen when calling shakes just about all the where sailors off of the log so that was going to be where they stop the music and they watched it and said no actually music is going to help this The scene so they waited a little longer and they made a very deliberate choice. To have the t. Rex seen feel different from the other. Khong versus creature battles. Because it's the one that doesn't have music again something. People aren't aware of in the theater. They're not thinking. Oh there's no music for this one unless it's pointed out to them but i think it's because they wanted to make that particular battle because if anything is going to be calling on the island it is a t. Rex they want that to feel really exceptional and also i think they rightly knew. What a brilliant job. Maria speed ac had done in terms of the sounds for those two creatures and of course. Then you have the the counter melody if you will. They erase screaming. Her lungs out wonderfully You know in that scene and even when there's knocking down of the of the branch of the tree. She's on at regret grown. Oh and then of course something. That is really shocking. Even today that it's not against reaction is that when kong kills these creatures. He snaps their necks. And the sounds are just brutal. I mean they really went for it. So there. there's there is no sound in that and then it's interesting after we see kong as a terrifying figure. Marion c cooper knew that for the ending of the movie at work we had to feel some some compassion for calling and by the end a lot of compassion for call. And you know. I think watching it today. Most people feel that really calling did not deserve the fate he got. No one asked him to leave skull island and be taken to a place. He doesn't belong and And and that process of if you will humanizing com is really done is much in the music as it is in the brilliant stop. Motion work of of willis o'brien and hooper who acted out some of congress gestures or at and The viewers may remember that when right after the law scene and Jack driscoll bruce cabinet of hiding underneath and contracts to reach him. And jack's adds a couple times. Max has this little. Sighing phrase is conflict in his hand. Like an awe. And that's the first little moment but then we get to the really you know. Surreal and for time censored at missing sequence happily restored to the movie. Now where cong- finally gets a a moment to stop fighting monsters and he looks at an and he's and this is where you don't for one of better phrase. He falls in love with her. And it's that famous scene where he's taking off pieces of her dress and sniffing them and This is where. Max has the chance to have a little humor and it's important to mention that there's been really no humor other than some kind of nervous jokes from the sailors earlier on. There's been no humor for a long time and is good movie. Knows if you're going to have a lot of intensity and seriousness for a long time. There's nothing like a deliberate laughed. Let people kind of you know. Breathe and then be ready for more scarce from shock again so i thought it would be fun to hear some of the music from the sequence where and is studying antarctic where kong is setting and and again. I think like many of these cues as you listen. You will probably if you've seen a couple of times you'll probably see the movies. Listen and here. it is The khong studies and sequence So i mean obviously yes. You're completely right. This is the moment of kind of brief. Levity that we get and I think as you said the seeds are planted just before we get back to his layer so to speak of of kong being almost childlike. You know we we sit you perfectly mention when he gets stabbed in the hand and he's like what was that i. I love the moment when he kind of plays with the mouth of the dead t rex. And it's i mean it's very much like a child just kind of like. Oh okay well. I guess that toys dead or broken now And so and then we get it in cong- but again it's it is very much visual in the close ups of his face and how he is His body moves but it is very much derived out of this music and the just the fluttering instruments as he just amaze tickling her. Yes it allows us to know that she's safe really. She's terrified but she safe when she's with him he's a he means her no harm. Exactly yes yeah. Max really understood what that moment needed and and and at the same time we're we're able in the Jump to another point of view very quickly and something that we hear throughout the movie that will probably sound familiar to people who know the movie. A little bit is the sailors march that he wrote for the mac again. This was australian background. He was really good at writing. March is not marches. It sound really militaristic but more just like groups of men. On a mission that was one of his forte throughout his career. And you're going to hear a little of the march that Carl that we hear his denham in the other sailors are walking a first through the jungle just before they come across the stegosaurus. And i love how. There's this kind of left right left right kind of mom. Mom that suggests tedium is well as anxiety through some of the kind of colors. You're kestrel color that max brings into it and among the many people who saw king kong opened in nineteen thirty three was a forget if he was twelve or had just turned. Just didn't turn thirteen ray. Bradbury saw this movie and he fell in love with the music From the first time he saw the movie he was one of the he was more perceptive than most critics at the time to to be bowled over by everything kong and remember the music and In the late nineties he said once play a few bars of steiner's background theme. For carl denham and his chums lurking through dinosaur country and there it is inside. My suddenly turned back to thirteen year. Old head primitive stuff. Yup powerful stuff. The proof and the power are still there so it. This is this theme. We're going to hear is also one that goes undergoes a very clever transition so i thought it might be fun to hear a little how we really. I hear the the sailors march in the movie here. It is the sailors march. So you're i mean you're absolutely right and again it's the language to put to it but the the marching quality. And as you say it's it's almost setting you up just so he can tweak it for the reverse trip. Yes yeah yeah. I know you're you're absolutely right because and it's worth pointing out that. Once they get on the island san is abducted. There is very little dialogue in the movie until she comes back and again. This was a real sign of faith among Cells make the producer. Marion c cooper that director prime mover max and murray speed that they felt that this whole middle section of the movie would work with very little dialogue and one of the sequences that i will always remember seeing when i was eight or nine years old because it has such intensity was that after jack has rescued and they've jumped off that cliff in the rope. They're swarmed they're they're now in the jungle and they're running straight toward the camera for the gate to get through it and they know the congress behind them what we hear. We here the sailors march but instead of it being that kind of slow what's going to happen. March is a heart beating running for your life. You know march and steiner was a master writing really exciting music. I mean he was kind of amped up guy a lot of the time which was good because he would spend his eighty much of his eighty. Three years were spent writing tons of music under insane. Deadlines wouldn't think anyone could do it. I've seen the scores. He wrote the earth this stuff out unless there simply wasn't enough time he would then sign a few cues on other later scores. But he do it. All and so. I think he could relate but here here jack and running through the jungle and we know that kong is behind them. Not because we see him. But you'll hear him in. The music is three note theme of bom bom bom and because this is so early in the creation of movie music in the sound era max really experiments a lot through the score and scores of this time and when he does sometimes is stopped music. Really abruptly at the action stops resume. And that's not a it's not an invalid choice. It's just something that people might not do dramatically now but as you listen to this you will know in an all girls and music tells us she falls and then when she gets up and they run again and You will also know the moment they get to the gate. Because whether or not listener knows the difference between a minor key and a major key and for the record minor keys usually sound sad or threatening and major key. Sound happy the way max bills and bills and modulate upwards that is goes up higher and higher keys like songs sometimes do to get more exciting and then he finally bursts into this major key version of ns theme as they get to the gate again. I think you'll see the movie as you hear this here. It is the march remixed. So as i love the the picture. You're painting as we're going along through these music cues because as you say you absolutely understand the trajectory of this flight that they're going through the all the emotional moments highs the the moments of fear. It's all their musically again. It's all again built off of music cues. That came earlier. That may not have registered to quite the same degree. but here we are in this moment of extreme high-tension not that it wasn't even high already but it's even further elevated and so those music cues pay off tremendously because of how they're integrated earlier on exactly and we'll never know how. How if if max was aware of all the music interrelationships. Obviously he was if you will take a theme and then just change theme away like we heard there but there are many cases in congress will take a very short little musical figure and then it will become something else later and he wants told up. We'll jon morgan. He told jon morgan. The the the friend of mine who reconstructed all this music later for the recording rearing. Max told that sometimes he didn't realize that say a character theme for errol. Flynn was also connected. In a different way that it was similar musically to the havilland who the characters wooing in the movie. He just intuitively wrote themes that felt right for them and then it was up to somebody was analyzing to notice that the connections and i wanted to share one that i found. I wasn't aware of till i was writing this book. And i think many people might remember when they hear it The king kong march music. That max wrote for the big opening opening and closing night of kong on broadway and this is the music we hear is everyone's coming in and wondering what they're going to see. And we see an jack in carlton and backstage and the fact that max in his earlier life is a broadway musical conductor with these kinds of march not march right right these kinds of overtures for shows you now i think he's sort of paying homage to the kind of music he might have written a few years earlier on broadway but was really clever is earlier in the movie. A whenever cong- shown can eloping from place to place getting to be on skull island. Max writes this this short little brass theme just these ascending notes. Like if you were playing a taking your keys on the keyboard in playing each white black white black note up. He's playing a little upward a pattern. We call that chromatic when they're when they're next to each other and i'm gonna play or i suggest we listened to too little ten second versions of what a friend of mine. The producer ray fail has called the kong on the prowl theme off. But i'm just a little theme because anything. Why are we listening to that. It's because max takes that little team and it becomes the theme of the king. Kong march spa That out so listen to the first little theme here of on the prowl. And then listen to how max turns into kind of a little pop jazz overture. All right here we go. So here's the kong on the prowl clips and now listen for it where it shows appear in the co qinghong march sequence from the broadway. Show so i. I love that you brought these up. Because i've talked to in various episodes. And you you think about it. I feel like this is a criticism. In general about you know art critics people who dissect art namely i got a lot of pushback in our episode on now voyager. Interestingly enough obviously Talking about bette davis performance in that film. And you know people say she can't possibly be thinking about all of these various things as she's performing and no not necessarily certainly thinking about some of them. And same with max steiner in this just the fact when you see these artists are just at the top of their craft. They don't need to necessarily actively thinking. Oh i'm going to incorporate this exact little moment. They are so in tune with their own art in their process that these things come back to the surface in the exact right moments. And i think this is a prime example of that. I agree and it's probably worth mentioning something. I don't think i said earlier. Which was the. Max had such a full adventurous life. That's why why. I called it the epic life Max had this incredible globetrotting life before hollywood. He didn't come to hollywood until he was forty. One years old and he's been worked on king kong until he was forty four years old and he went on work on about three hundred movies. I mean some of that was in a supervisory capacity the head of the arcade music department but he wrote at least one hundred fifty two hundred full scores. And that's just an amazing amount of work for someone who started at forty four and didn't stop until he was seventy seven. He was just. He was both a racehorse and a workhorse. And i think that because he had a practice he'd done so many different kinds of music that that the reason he could write a score in i think kong. He had about two months which was a lot of time but he when he was forced to. He could write a score a week if he had to. It's because of all that knowledge in training that he knew he could trust his instincts to use force if you will and just tap into it and So yeah. And i love. Also that you talk about i mean the the sound of broadway get all those cong- a themes in the music but also this now we are back in the concrete jungle. But it's it's that broadway sound that infiltrates that bringing those two worlds together. And it's i mean it's so cool to hear it. It's really fun. I think it also gives the music a bit of a breather from being intense. It's it's a fun piece of music. I've heard people play it live It was actually. That theme of the march was published as sheet music. Max had hopes since ville musical such a new thing. He thought maybe we could make money on this. Sadly people did not by the sheet music for the king kong march but it exists so And this is long before soundtrack albums at least a decade before anybody was getting around to putting music out from films. Nobody thought there'd be any interest from public about hearing a movie soundtrack but that story. Here's a little too ahead of his time on that one definitely out of his time he and max was one of the only composers who kept copies of the original recording sessions and didn't have everything but as again as a biographer. I was able thanks to a wonderful archivist named james dark up matt James saves max's scores. His correspondence the recordings he made on the stage for quick checks. Deceive music was if it sounded good. And so you can even hear the outtake sometimes or max talking to the orchestra and I i think he knew that this was going to be important. Someday that people would would be interested in that film music Was was not just some thing thrown in to help something make a dollar before it was quickly forgotten. That's so cool We now we transition here into i one of my favorite music sequences in the film and is the sequence surrounding the elevated train. Which i learned from you was almost cut out of the film but again talking about the the combination of sound effects with music. In such a seamless way Tell us about this sequence. Yeah only marion. C cooper with with making kong and have all the scenes have been talking about and we you know an remember all the malay in in new york city and all the things happen there only he would look at the rough cut and think it's missing. Something i want to have a scene with the elevate with cong- fighting in elevated train. The story is that Marion c cooper had had an apartment. That was too close to one of those elevated trains. The it drove him crazy so he loved the idea that kong pull one of those trains often just smash it like a matchbook and Yeah and the money was tied at this point but at this but that sells nick Celtic was just negotiating. His exit is being the guy in charge of our ko. And who would replace him. But marian c cooper for a while as the production sheet so fortunately by by the time kong was in post production and doing its last shoots. I think cooper was in charge of the studio so they made the sequence and and just going through. Max's score is is a really kind of a heart racing experience because he is writing on regular music papers not what a composer might have. Now that might have indications of screen action and all. These are things that are computer can print out. Max physically writing the dialogue above notes. He's riding what's happening. He's almost breaking his pencils with excitement by this last part of the movie i mean he is wrong and and the audience leaning forward eating popcorn is wide open but hearing this music while watching it and i was kind of stunned when i turn the page in the score and it says elevated train sequence. Here i'm seeing it tomorrow. So you know he's well underway on scoring. This movie and cooper is going back and creating the scene and this was the hardest scene to do in terms of sound design. It's got so many elements of khong and screaming people train music this at a time. You basically have three audio tracks. And that's a whole other story of how they would mix it but it's really trying to make a three d. movie when you've just invented fill are air going so far beyond the norm of what's possible and it works and listening to this music Needs very little explanation and you can say well you can hear the train. It's very obvious what it is like your theme a boy does it work and it really were to the movie and this is. This is a great example of what i was talking about earlier of. How mexican can create a real jolt of adrenaline us simply by lifting the notes. He's playing into a key. That's one step higher that we just heard and then a step higher step higher and we just know at some point. It's all gonna snap and you can hear that all right here is the elevated train sequence music so you didn't say it explicitly but i know you think about the next music clip. We're talking about. I see i hear it already. Which is musically speaking. You see so much of like hitchcock in suspense in this sequence. And you give it as well and coming up into the climb of the empire state building but max ability to channel that suspense musically as you say juggling the sounds of the train the people kong an all of these elements that you listen to that music by itself and obviously we can picture exactly what's happening from the movie visually but just in terms of the auditory level. We are going on this suspenseful journey and we get something in a different register with him climbing empire state building but it also it has that. Feel where you are as you say it's It's edge of your seat kind of stuff. Yes and yes. And y'all i'd love to talk about the the climbing the empire state building which i if if you recall is mostly seen as a wide shot. I think it really effective one of ofcom climbing the building. And we're going to hear some of the music from that and Anyone who has been on the empire state or a building that high standing outside you feel the wind and i. It's not my. I love the excitement of feeling that. But i i do feel a little vertigo. When i'm up. That high. And i feel such a strong blast of wind on me and in the music. You're about to hear which is the music that accompanies that wide shot of kong climbing up and then the iconic shot where we are above kong and we see him on top of the empire state the music it. Yes it's climbing up in keys is going higher and higher. He's playing this repeated pattern over and over and listen to what the woodwinds violins are doing. Alongside of it. They're playing this kind of whirling sound to me. Sounds like wind and that sense of going higher in it's almost like cong-. Is scottie. ferguson vertigo. If you were experiencing just as herman in that film created for hitchcock this incredible sense of disorientation from height. That's what max is doing this music. And then when kong reaches the top instead of hearing kong's theme is this kind of triumphal scary theme the way we've heard it from most of the movie we hear it. Is this kind of whirling pattern of disorientation. The at three no kong theme and is really setting us up for his fall. I mean and and it really puts us inside kong's head it's not like he's in control he's thinking thinking. Where do i go from here. how do i get. How did i get up here. And what's happening to me now and that the music is such an important part of that. So so here. Is that climb with with that. So brilliantly orchestrated and max was a master of or kestrel color. He for time reasons. Other people would write out his parts. But each it w- it was much as possible notating every instrument. He wanted what he wanted them to play and And here's that music and then listen for how he plays a kong's at the end of it. I love how you describe the sense of when he reaches the top because he we've seen him escape terror after terror and you know triumph over t rex and snake and pterodactyl and everything climbing up to his mountain. Top layer where he is the king and we have this music him climbing. And it's the first time in the film that he looks small yes and he reaches the top and it is exactly it is not a triumphant moment of your junk. I am the king of your jungle. Now he reaches the top. And there's nowhere to go and again thanks to the characterization that we already have the sympathy that we've now developed for kong. You see you see him saying i'm trapped. I have nowhere to go. I what do i do now. How did i even get here. And i get here. What are these things attacking me and of course that at the moment that always gets me is when he realizes when when the bullets hit him and you get that medium close up of touching the blood and just like not comp. He understood dinosaurs. He grew up a dinosaurs. He does not understand what's happening to him. And and max is very shrewd in the once. The shooting begins once the plane. Start swooping in and firing those machine guns The music drops out very quietly. I shouldn't say drops out it. Very quietly sneaks out and in our time a you know in the twenty first century many many film composers in this happened in the twentieth century to retake cash so much great music and you can't hear any of it because the sound effects people put so many sounds over. You wouldn't even though. I wrote music there. This is the exact opposite of that. Because max and the sound designer maurice feedback. Were very carefully to make sure that the plane sounds in the music not only didn't fight each other but they complimented each other in the moments where music and the plane sounds overlap. Maria spivak later said that he adjusted the sounds of the of the plane. So it was on a different frequency from max's music's they wouldn't just blur into each other in. This looks ahead to something. That i learned writing the book about max that i thought was just extraordinary that throughout his career as he would look at a film and figure out how to score it he would figure out where an actor's voice was in terms of they were if or a pitch for a note of music on the piano. What would that note be. What kiewit be. And i found a note on a movie. Jabil betty davis still at warner brothers. He writes bette. Davis speaks in the key of f. So he was telling his orchestrators. You know stay away from that. Pitch that range. And that's that's what. He is doing era in kong. And i love the way. He brings the music of back into the end of kong at the moment. When it's over for kong when when the bullets really start to draw the life out of him and this is what you're about to hear and at this point again max is writing all this action out on the paper at all these notes and it's almost like you. He's he's almost like weeping on the page and at one point he writes to help with the airplane. Imitation you know it would meaning. Let's not even have that kind of buzzing effect in the music more. It's all about being in kong's head and it's it's gorgeous any annual you'll hear not only his theme you'll hear the tenderness comtrex reach out to an but you'll hear the staccato distant pattern you here throughout the score this data that is the planes firing and I again. I marvel at the way he could be inside the movie and be us at the same time. So here's kong's death row an and he's max's is is the one who tells us when kong hits the ground which we don't see we hear this spiraling Dissident wash of sound as he's falling and then there's this pause and then the hit and he's telling us what happened. So i i love your points this is. I think it's already pretty clear right as we've gone through clip by clip of this music that you don't get to the end of this film and feel what you feel Essentially that you know calm turns out is not. Our villain are tragic hero. You don't get to that point with one music clip at the end It is a building of clips and then You know waving those themes in and out and then having it all come together as you say so much going on. And i love the points that you're making before this clip that beyond the artistry of actual music writing but the kind of the the tight rope between me artistry and the kind of just technical expertise of layering music on top of sound effect in just the right way of finding the right exact musical notes to steer clear of. I mean there is again ramming these movies. There is technical expertise in every aspect of the industry. Even here and it's just it's fascinating to think about such th the absolute wide range of skills sensitivities that these Artist tad in finding the right way to have this. Emotional payoff play out. It was in india. There were times early max. His career where Perhaps he didn't get his way or the course. The film was not as good as you wish it was. In which case. There's more pressure on the composer on a bad film to make better but with king kong he. Everything went the right way for him. He had one hundred percent supported. Marian c cooper and the very last music you here in the film as the movie ends it. Just is absolute emotional. Knockout for me. Because again i always loved it. I recognized some the themes. He uses. What i didn't realize until i wrote the book. Is that in the final minute minute. Fifteen of music that you hear. It's all built. It's all music is made up of the previous themes it's it's it's calling on the prowl except it's herds wistfully it's ends theme and when the when the when carl denham stands over the body of kong in the crowd and the cop says well Well then i guess the airplanes got him right after the cop says that we hear ends theme the violins and we see robert armstrong. Just kind of smile. Each course's famous curtain line of now. No wasn't the airplanes. It was beauty. Killed the beast. And you hear that in the music and then get this beautiful stately tragic theme of unity and then this final kind of ascent of light. Almost fans ferriol tragic Summing up of it all and it is. It is true to say that when people walked out of the premiere of this movie at grauman's chinese in hollywood and in the palaces in new york The movie business had changed. People went into the movie business because of this are. Ko stayed in business. It went into bankruptcy. couldn't be kong. No single movie could keep the arc out of bankruptcy but it didn't fold and king kong kept the doors open and as you listen to this music at the end. I don't want they don't listeners. Have to think too much about what the themes are but. Just listen to how it pulls it all together. Absolutely here is the cong- finale don. I mean this this is like cliche to say but it's you know you find if you're like me and you find yourself at the end of Great movies and your choked up it. But it's it's in these musical moments that you find those tears welling up in your in your eyes where you're not entirely sure. What what. What is the exact thing that pulled me to feeling this way. But it's more often than not. It's the music. It is an end for max it. This may sound strange. But i think he saw much of king. Kong is a a story of tragic love And that was. That was one of his specialties of his most famous movies casablanca gone with the wind now. Voyager you have stories of unrequited love and that Max was just. He was married four times and He went a lot of pain in his life. A lot of love affairs that didn't work out and and some the did and happily is his. Fourth wife was perfect partner for him for his last several decades. But i think max was a true european romantic. And that's why if he wasn't drawn to monsters or horror films. The way bernard. Hermann would be later when he worked with harry house and herman's attitude was great. Let's do this. I think that the reason max genuinely loved king kong was he appreciated all of its immagination and he. He loved the story. But i think that he saw it is kind of tragic romance and He brings that to it along with so many other things absolutely. I mean it's at the end of the day. It is such a human story and at the same time you can see how a man who grew up in vienna's amusement park could totally relate to this story because it is it is. There's so much of that as you say. Imagination at play There's there's certainly no question that when you listen to all these music clips you can tell. He poured his heart and soul into that music. Because it's i mean you feel every every note of it exactly and that's why nearly ninety years later it still works i Had the pleasure seeing not too long ago In ed edd the chinese theater in hollywood and fair as daughter victoria riskin. Who is a wonderful lady is terrific writer. She's written a book about her mother and her father robert riskin just she was on the show as of course she was and i went not only to see in support her but to see how the audience would react to the movie and they loved it and i did my thing where i stood outside the door. A little early to your people walk out. And i heard people saying wow. I didn't know that powerful instruments to the sound. The music was incredible. And i thought well. That's working for people in twenty nine teen than max marion c cooper and they're very large teams. Certainly did their jobs right. Absolutely couldn't say it better myself again. The book is music bay. Max steiner the epic life of hollywood's most influential composer stephen. I can't thank you enough for arranging these clips coming on the show. This i think certainly such a treat for me. I'm sure the audience agrees. Tell our audience where they can learn more about you and your work and all those great things. Thank you max. I love your show. I listen to it always end. It's a treat to be on it and yet you can find me online. I have a web page A website www media stephen m. e. d. i a. s. t. v. e. n. dot com. You can contact me there and You know anyone. If anyone has any questions about to bernard hermann max steiner film music or anything else. I'm more than happy to respond out. Thank you so much. Stephen such a pleasure to have you on the show and i hope we get you back on here in the not too distant future. Same here max thank you. That concludes our episode on king kong. I'd love to hear what you think of this. Classic movie must feel free to tweet at movie. Must or email me at classic movie musset. Gmail.com thank you to our patron producers. Eleanor b max. On repay drill. Orion de bernie and stephen scofield remember episodes. Release every friday on the podcast service of your choosing. Thank you so much for listening until the next episode. keep up with your classics.

king kong max steiner kong carl denham jack driscoll hollywood khong marian c cooper steiner max vienna bernard hermann king kong john williams stephen smith cooper max parrilla mrs classic ernest b ann darrow Fay wray
PSYCHO (1960)

Horror Vein

1:14:32 hr | 1 year ago

PSYCHO (1960)

"You're listening to the fear film studios podcast network. All Right Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to another horror vein. The whore. Host city. I'm Dan Fisher. This week we're talking about the one thousand nine hundred sixty Alfred Hitchcock movie. So like Oh. Yes, but before we do that. Like a radio announcer voice to. Look to that came from holy. Like a show host. Stop on a wheel of fortune. GOING CRAZY HERE A. Right turn to come up with new things every week. You know it's kind of hard to do album. Well My, that was loud. Oh! Windows out dude. Neighbors like with the folks going on over there. To Call Belco. Call now. Oh saw what's going on in the world of horror. I don't know if you saw this thing or even if you are a comic book. Do you books I don't think. This question. Not so much anymore I mean I used to really the nano that I like I like to the comic book themed movies. The comic book you know movies and everything and. That pool and okay now. Like like, went out and bought no got it and not in years, years and years. When, you're younger, yeah, Oh, yeah, who's used to read? Conan, the barbarian really wow I did. Yeah and then uh, Spiderman. Can't can't spider. I got Star Wars. Star Wars Yeah yeah a bunch of different ones. You still have any still. Comic Books Or. Really. Yes. I think you should probably send me some pictures because they may be worth money. I thought about that, and I did a little research and I thought the star. Wars would be worth something, but I don't know I can tell you because I'm an expert on that. Okay. I collect. Thirty five cent one and they said Oh. That's a big deal. Then they went back to thirty, but I don't know that it's. You have to send me pitchers. Okay, I'll do that now. Take a look at them and I'll let you okay okay. But anyway. Just. Tied McFarland who is the creator of spawn? He to draw spider-man for a little bit I actually his art, artistry. Really brought Spiderman up to next to the next level. I mean he's just incredible artists, dunedoo joker and Batman and all that to the Dark Knight, and all that no, he. He he just did spider man and then. He got sick a dealing with big corporations and started his own company, which was image comics. And that's where you know. Robert Kirkman did walking dead and. A lot of Big Comic Books Come Out of there, but spawn was like. Huge when it first came out, they sold like one point five million copies of the first issue. Wow, those crazy so anyway. He I guess they Scifi, channel did a documentary about you know him in his life and. All the stuff that he went through. So called. Todd McFarlane like hell I won't. Is the name of the documentary is going to be on Scifi ahead. Channel I guess. And part of. A COMIC CON. This year is going to be online. Not going to have the event, so I guess he's doing a panel. And I guess I'm going to be showing the documentary either. At the panel or before some are but. It's going to be an SCIFIS YouTube channel. I guess July. Twenty Five Cup Yeah. Yes. So kind of excited about that, so the trailers. Vein if you go to our website on their. Check out the trailers prequel. So if you're tabbing farmland fan or a fan of spawn really good comic book but. Wow, his artwork is amazing. It's amazing how it is. It really is yeah. I know who he is absolutely. Not. Many people don't know is just amazing and. That didn't toy industry as well. As a major. Twisted Christmas I. Think so Yeah I. Think you're right, yeah! It with a different. Different type of Care Frost and the reindeer, and all that all twit, they're all jacked up a nal evil, looking okay I thought. That was him Jack. Yeah. They're hard to find now I. Guess they're really. Stuff is I mean his. Anything, he does. Man Turns to gold because he's just yeah an amazing artist. He really push. In I have a lot of his his comic book so I. Just Love His work. I can't get nose I e still by collect some comics. Some no, I do a lot. I, that's like a big thing in my life right now. It's coming books, okay? Yeah I'm a big collector so. I look. More towards a collector stance and so I I. Been doing a lot of research and an an expert, but I know a lot I can tell. You know I can let you know what comic books are worth money and ones which are not and. So. That's why I said. If you have any, let me take a look at them and I can let you know. Okay. It's worth that much crap. Cool all right. That sounds good. Just might have some conflicts that are probably worthless or Probably. A little each I'm sure I. Don't know, but. You never know a lot of people that don't know anything about comic books. They just got this coming in and finding leaders ten thousand dollars. You know just crazy. File. Okay. Look at the look, good Batman number one when it first came out in I, guess in the thirties. that that book is worth like one point five million dollars. Yeah. I mean based on condition to you have to based on condition. It's hard to find in really good condition, but. Yeah, like the first appearance of spider man, and all that stuff, so first appearance of Superman, all the books worth millions of dollars. On Rail. Because they're. Hard to find. And again we got to tear. We're not talking about horror films, but now we're talking about comic book, but this is this is a horror comic and or with no that spawn and yeah. There's supposedly topic Furlan. Going to be doing another spawn movie, and we don't know what's going on with that, but did you like them with? They only made one right. Yeah, they only made one and then HBO did a series on spawn an animated series, which was pretty good so bad you like. I saw the spahn movie. Did you like it or Not Really I, I. There are some aspects that I liked some I did not like Yeah, because I. Big Fan of the Comic Book So. I thought it was just okay. I met a guy at a convention that was born. He was pretty cool. I can't remember his name, but he was pretty cool. Oh okay, Pretty Nice. He's a nice. Guy Cool. So. What else is going on down anything? Diana and I saw the book of ally. That's a good movie I liked. You liked it. That's with Denzel Washington and Gary Oldman liked it. Yeah, yeah. She's like I was just it was on cable like I. Don't know a little while ago and I was flipping through, and I landed on that channel and stay down there for a little while Oh. That looks good. You know like in the middle or something is said well. But we'll watch the whole thing one day, so you know over the weekend. Was that one movie or you know Oh yeah, okay and founded on Amazon. Prime you know video and. We watched it. Yeah. I liked it I mean I knew nothing about it and I. Love those two actors so It's kind of a sci-fi dystopia in this dope. Ian I think right. Yeah. Me Kunas. She's in to. It's been a while so that seen it, but I know I. Remember being a good movie. I liked it. Yeah, it was it was. It was all about the book and everything obviously and. Yeah, so you don't really know all what's going on until the very end and. And then yeah, so I don't want to give anything away, people. It's a good movie, yeah? And, it's not necessarily horror movie, but it's the action thriller Type So. Yeah. So other than that. Just. Because, they didn't like. Don't breathe so. Your Voice. I'm like Oh my God Diana. You're not gonNA believe this. Rabkin like she's like. I know. That it was happened to happen and it happened tonight. Oh my God, are you? She's going to be okay. I just give you a minute. I'll be. Going to be weeks before dying. Forgive me for not like Brio. That's funny. We laughter later at first you know like gearing headlights like just like what? Are you okay, you don't see yourself. You're devastated. I could tell and I was. Just trying to tell the wind right out of my sails just. On like. You know like I'm in the middle of the ocean and got motor on and I'm just like there's no wind it was. Dead Calm. was going to happen when these days I mean I did I. Did I knew you know and that's what makes it interesting. It's going to happen again because I'LL BE A. Great and you'd. It'll probably have lives was just about to say a happen in reverse. Absolutely and I'm like rob, but really. I don't. Keep Pushing Lala land and I know you saw and we're GONNA YOU'RE GONNA. Eventually see it I, like it, but I can't be sure I'll like that. That movie I watched it again. I can't get enough of this serious. I. Is just like the perfect movie. I've never seen a movie. That was so well done in a long time was. Good classic it is that good? It deserved all the awards it again. I know I keep bringing. Guys I know that it's not. How many times have you seen it now? I think I've watched five times in the last couple weeks it's. Mike. Oh my God and it's like in. An Emma Stone. She's so good movie and has it's kind of like now I have like a big crush on her because she is just amazing film. WHO's The guy in it? It's Josh. Heart. Heart. Brian guys'll gosling. That's causing. And he does good to he's. Okay didn't know he could sing and dance. And she does, too. She does she's amazing. Great Voice, Wow! Wow Wow. All right all right I know you keep plugging it and keep pushing die. I'm sure she'd like it so. Check it out like I wanted only do a film festival have rebel thought because in land, and that would just be so mater. Absolutely Yeah. So No, I Okay switching off I'm done. La La Land Shit and counting books, and all this other shit. I know I know, but we still love you. We know you're GONNA. Come back. You can't absolutely. Could you come back? You gotTa love. Ice. Absolutely So. What's the deal with relic I know I keep every week relic. Is it out can watch it. Is it only on a certain channel? Streaming Specific Stream I. I almost rented it because it it went down and priced, but it's still like seven dollars to rent. But see just. TV or I? Don't know if that's just apple I don't know you know what the availability is. As, far as other stuff because I mean it's. Not distributed by IFC nights I'm assuming that you could probably get A. DVD of it, but you. Know if you WANNA, take the chance of buying the movie you haven't seen before. It looks good. That trailer looks good looks terrific, and then You haven't seen it. You should have left either. Left, Kevin, Bacon. Have not seen that. No, okay. I haven't seen it either. Okay but I've heard I've heard. Yeah I know I love Kevin Bacon I do too as I really disappointed neighbor, watch and Wait like Oh man. I probably said this before when we first talked about it but I. AM! Bus. Ie Anna keeps. She keeps me on us. She's like. Don't listen to. Don't listen to what other people say. No surrounding tomatoes. You WanNa Watch it if you want to see it if you think it's going to be good if you like Kevin Bacon just watch the damn movie I'm like. You know I'm I'm like everybody else. It's like. NFL enough people are saying that it's bad. It's probably not that good, but. Then you go well, do I wanNA spend the money. If it's not that good I can wait. And you know maybe eventually come on Netflix or Hulu or something like that. which brings. No No, no, no, no, it just it just it. It brings it. How. Do I say this? It begs the question them. Has In your memory in your recent memory. Has There been a movie? We put a lot hurt a lot of negative reviews. Fantastic and like all my God. What the hell were these people thinking that I can't. I can't think of a movie off hand, but that has happened before. US is terrible terrible. And you go out. Walking anything right. You're like well I. think that's part of it and I. Think we've kind of discussed this a little bit. Is that is the hype? It's. A lot of people movies agent. You expect so much when you go to see it because of the hype that. You can't enjoy the film because you're expecting to be blown away. And of course that doesn't happen because everyone's blown out of proportion. And then the movies that everyone's like. So you go in there, expecting it the sock and not expecting much in you're like. Oh, it's a bad. So I think it has to do with the mental state. You're in when you're watching certain movies. There's. Other movies where they're just fucking fantastic, no matter what. Right. You know it's all on people's tastes, but then I think I think the hype really does kill some movies. Especially, if they have some flaws to it, and they really come out more. you know so. I agree that's my two cents on that and I know I totally agree I do you know? Had they not built this up so much what I have? You know. Felt this way I maybe liked it a little bit more. You know possibly. You know. The, fact that they just hype the Hell I mean obviously Blair which comes to mind, but. Even if they hadn't hype that one I just shoot. And I just simpler, which was just bad movie was just bad. But there were other movies that they did that with two and. Movies like that and a lot of movies lately. Where everyone's on the bandwagon going? Oh, yeah, this is great, and then people don't want to say that. It's bad because they don't want to get. You know people threat trashing them on right. You. Hate this movie you saw we're. Just, didn't like it also respect my you know. My taste and let me not like it because that's the. Way It. Is You know? But, but I'd be curious to see you know maybe next time maybe next week if you can think of. where? People realized man that was terrible rob. Don't even waste your time and you're like. In on maybe watched it, you know. Whatever apple TV you know not in the theater, or maybe it's the theater to who knows later. You watched it. You're like what the hell were they thinking? You know that's happened to me to. Where I go see a movie in the theater and I've seen it with a large crowd and everyone was. Cheering and having a great time, so it's like wow. I, they movie, and then you watch it when you get you know goes home video and don't have that crowd response and you're Kinda like. Movies, not as good. Yeah, so that affects to. Absolutely and that's why I've still you know I mean we need theaters. We nude. In on I know they're hurting right now and I know that. I didn't even when they do. Come back. It's going to be tough because there's not really anything new I think the new law obviously. They pushed Place to? Push quiet place to in a pushed Dammit I, just a Senate tip of my tongue. I was like. Damn anyway. I know they're doing that so that well now when they start to open, it's like people aren't going to be you know. Here's the thing is like a lot of the Hollywood movies have been pushed or have been pushed indefinitely and now they're saying that this is a big opportunity for independent films to really shine because. They're sitting there going. Hey, you got an opening. We'll take it. And we'll show this now. Some movies where you normally wouldn't see in the theater. Wouldn't that be something you're like? Wow, you know I I guarantee you that. If we're open, relic would have been in it, and that would have had no choice they would. They would never been theaters. So. It's kind of like these independents that are just sitting there. Going never would have seen the big screen light of day, because the because the Hollywood is keeping movies because you're like well. If we can't release it now it's it's almost the end of the summer. And I was GONNA come out anyway, so we're GONNA. Keep it to Christmas. Or Nick Simmer. Wow, but then they got to push their whole lineup back so i. don't know it's kind of weird. It's going to be interested. They decide whether or not they're going to put it in the theaters. They might release on straight to on demand. Movies! On the move the money. Doesn't make the money now. Wow. So. Yeah, it's it's going to be definitely interesting. How this whole theater experience is GonNa to work out? Doesn't kill the industry. 'cause I know AMC theaters is really. Struggling I know they are just got some some new financing. The kind of whole out for a while so. That you've heard you've heard that all like when they when they start to reopen. It's not going to be like it was well. No, because he can't feel better, you know. Yeah, that's one thing. But yeah. Let me still a little hesitant ongoing, even with the social distancing, and then you're not gonNa have all these new film until the. Vaccine. It's not going to be normal. It'll be different it'll. Be Different so they're trying to make it work now, but. Change until they get a vaccine for the for the virus. It's not going to be like this. And on that note, we're going to take your take. Okay, so we'll take a break, and then we'll be back and talk about. Coming up right after this break all right, we'll be right back. WHO Fear Film, Studios! PODCAST network. Sh. Kids at your favorite cloud and old world free goethe clown. With brand new show goes funhouse with my good bestest. World Pinky the clown Salo picky. Picky, little showers be careful. We get wild and crazy. We talk about all kinds of things on house, so if you WanNa have a good laugh. But if you're easily offended I wouldn't listen. Anyway! Joining us here on your favorite podcast APP and listen to free. Coast House. Crazy and clowning around all the time. Oh. Spun. With all you freaky kids out there. Shoe. Dog May. You With more horror vein, wholesome horror, your host city I'm Dan Fisher? and. We are going to be talking about. Classic Movie Psycho? Yes we are. In another one of those movies where the soundtrack. Makes the film. All My god Bernard Ride Soundtrack. I. Studied this movie in College when I was in film school? is just an amazing film but. They hitchcock. It said that he had shown a cut of the film to producers. without the soundtrack and everyone hated. Then when they put the soundtrack on it, they weren't fucking ballistic. They went holy fuck. It's amazing. And it's and it's one of the few films. Where you're following, the main character in the main character is. And then you get switched off to another character. Yes. He did that in to live and Dine La. They did that the main character. To the next year there, but. The amazing thing about it is the films the night from nineteen sixty. And it still holds up to today I mean. It's a little slow in parts now and I can see why you know some people would be like it's not as good because of. What people are so used to with kind of a slasher film? But this was like the beginning of slasher films and. I, it was funny because the other day I was talking to my mother. And she was telling me a story. She went on a date with a guy. And the guy took her to see psycho, and she so freaked out by the film. Absolutely you betcha hand. A lot of people talk to when they first saw the film. They have problems taking showers for a long time. It is day. They like still looking over their shoulder to shower, but well before we go any further. I have a confession to me. You don't like it. No I didn't say that. You've ever seen. Well I'm sure. I! Wonder I did. It was a very very long time ago. Okay. So long ago did I didn't remember a lot of it. But you did watch it I watched it Yeah. I watched it last week. So you like watch with kind of fresh is if you have with fresh, is absolutely I I knew about shower seeing. I knew about his mother. And I knew that he wore the WIG and everything. But there were a lot of pieces that just didn't remember. I didn't remember her stealing the money. I didn't remember what happened after he kills her in the shower. I didn't remember the investigator. There's a lot of things the boy the boyfriend I mean I just. I just didn't remember. And you know it had been so long and I just was like. Wow, it's almost like watching this for the first time. I'm not kidding and it was. Just, it's and I'm like wow, this is nineteen sixty. And and the end the. As you just said the soundtrack. It's suspenseful. I mean there's a reason why it's stood the test of time because it is just it keeps. You engaged I. Mean you're Edgy Edgy your seat at least I was I mean I. Really I mean. You know like I said it's. It was like watching it for the first time I mean I. I like all right here comes the shower scene I knew that. I can about that I can imagine. People watching this film because the scour seeing comes out of nowhere you. Could not predict. She gets. Not only murdered in that shower Nokia. He's like he was being very nice to her being very cordial. Our like your house to the mother, but you're not introduced to mother, says you here, right voice and right. Think there's nothing telling you that this mother is potentially dangerous or he is. Right. You think that they're having this, you know. She hears them from the from her cabin. Arguing right and you think that that's you know the mothers. Actually you know browbeating her son and being nasty mean to him and and bullying bullying him, and you have no clue that he's twisted as he is with the Dan. Has This bipolar thing going on? And you get a little bit of it while they're sitting in the in the parlor and she's eat while she's eating. Yeah, he gets a little weird. We stuff in the animals and all that. she she. She makes us suggestion that. He should. Her mother in institution a home so eight-game like get on with it. He changes, and you see a hint of his mother. Come up! Yes! Yes, you're right. Erin, then he us back. See it. It's just real subtle. Yeah and you can see the look on her face like Oh wait. I didn't mean to offend you. Expression on her face is fantastic. It's like yeah. Fuck just happened. Heroes L. Nice and give me a sandwich now is little. Mama's boy that you thought could hurt a fly which they do at the end. Yeah. All of a sudden turns into your you could see. In his eyes that wow! Something's wrong. She could kill you any circuit. Absolutely just back like nothing happened. Again I just kind of suggested myself. You know, we feel a little mad sometimes. yeah. Used it and scream of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah you, don't you? Don't see it common. I! Mean obviously I knew everybody knows this hour's everyone's concentrated on the her stealing the money. Absolutely inaccurate to you're like. What he did in the money I know in a whole scene was she's in the room? She left. You think she's going to the bank and the next thing she's in in the and the camera goes right to the money. Doesn't say anything you see the money and the camera turns and shows the suitcase. Didn't have to say a word that's now. Classic filmmaking. Yeah. And in even on her way, you know. She stopped at a stoplight. I Just And then. And then they don't do a flashback. They're just doing. Stuff in her head. That absolutely line that like what was transpiring while sheet all that was fantastic. Fantastic yeah. The flashback it was like she was thinking it and it all. My Hariri actions as she's driving. Law My god fantastic. And then it starts raining. Yeah and then. Bates Motel Bates. Motel Yeah I just my God. What a great movie! It's! You know and then I like I said I didn't know anything I forgot about the investigator and. And? You know how he frames up. All the bad people in the film is. Like or people that are. You know like the the the guy that's buying the house for his daughter. Everyone's Frayn's really close. Claustrophobic feel the same Berlin. She wakes up in the police officers, their claustrophobic shot of the full. Yeah, yeah, yeah, in the same thing when the investigator gets introduced close up shot and he walks into the camera. Terrific. Even her sister is great. L. She's freaking out trying to find you know. Yeah. Oh Yeah I, mean, and then confronts the boyfriend. And then you got it all on your miles. Man, she's like. You look at her and she's really cute and like attractive, and then she starts getting real bitch and you're like. Oh, I. DON'T WANNA deal with that. She's. Starts things like? that. I know. Oh my God holy craff and then Alfred Hitchcock. Cameo love that. Yep Yep I saw him. When he was making these films, he was at at the top of his game psycho. Rear Window Vertigo in the birds, yeah, birds, yeah, okay, amazing, and of course north by northwest, which is I mean that's how removing to. Sign a horror film though horror film, but. As more of a spy movie, really good action movie, but but psycho he could. Hear the opportunity to shoot the movie in color, and he decided to shoot in black and white I think. At that time with great idea to. Do. And I did a when I was in school. I did a paper on the shower scene. And it took them. Three and a half weeks to shoot that. Three weeks. And and if you look at the film. If you look at the shower scene the film the the knife never enters the body not once now it doesn't. Its all implied. Oh, yeah, in the ninety mm it comes in comes across her stomach, and its all implied sound effects and. Trying to find the actual, how many cuts are in hat sequence? It's a lot. But that's why it took so long they had to. They built its own set, so they could get all the different camera angles, and what's really amazing if you really watch the film in that sequence? The cameras you know it. It starts on one side. And she's in the shower should take an in. With the cuts it ends up on the other side where the wall would be. And that. Is when. You see the door open. He kind of her. She the girl in the shower. Goes off to the side where she's gone from the shot. And then you just see the curtain, and that must have scared the crap out of audiences. I bet it did because you can't see the face, but when the shower curtain opens. Is See. The is just kinda like crazy. And then you have the. Oh Yeah. Wow And even before that he's a little creeper. He's looking through the whole new law. Good Yeah! Like. That was all I mean. You know the taboo and films was one absolutely. Audiences are going not because. You got. What's her name? It's gently in Abroa-. Kellyanne Lebron's beginning then they show a toilet which I'd Never Shawna toilet before. and. And then that's shower scene. And not bloody at all compared to today's standards. Now it's not. which has been blown everywhere in a regular would've film and you don't need it. Did it. Bother you that maybe she would've. There would have been more blood. Would have been more blood, but was it necessary? No. Still, you still get the same impact. And that's the beauty about black and white film. Yeah, the blood doesn't really come out and it's not. It's not something. People focus on the blood. But. It makes you focus on the horrific act. Yeah that's true I think it works better that way, and that's just my opinion, but that's true. The that's the genius of Hitchcock. He's just. An amazing amazing film then. Of course after she gets killed, where's the camera? Go right to the money. That's I know sitting right there and he has no idea. He puts it in the car. The car and it's like okay. There's a there's forty thousand dollars. Right into the swamp. Thousand House with a lot of money. It was pep bought. I bought a house. probably a nice one. You know you spend that house for this I. Never never carry as much as I can lose forty thousand. I know right can. You. My God. She's like yeah. We're GONNA take his money book. This gay I just I'd forgotten all of fat. The beginning and everything, and then you know when they got to the hotel in the shower. Yes, but yeah I just. So good. Oh my gosh. I know Anthony Perkins to You know almost perfect for the raw i. can't see anyone else playing it. He's got the look he's sprayed. Just the way he. Does the part It really is really fantastic performance by him. and. He didn't really do anything much. After that. I can't remember any other mood identity disner sequels. Yeah, he did oh. Yeah, and that was funny because I watched psycho. And then, I watched like two. Good I love cycle to. It's not as good as psycho obviously but. For a sequel. As an actually really good story I liked and he's and he's in it. He's in it and it takes place twenty years later. From what happened in psycho, so he's just getting out of the institution. At the beginning of sector saying yeah, okay, so it's like A. It's a direct sequel as like what would happen if. He got Lou got released. And that's what happened and what's great is they have bureau miles in psycho to as well? And she's. She's the one in the courtroom when she's when he's getting released going. Why are you releasing? He's a murderer. Kill you. Kill my sister, all not no way. Really good movie. If you ever get a chance to see, I would recommend, and then they make a third one, and he made a third one that Anthony Perkins was in, and he directed. is at an anchor. It's okay it's just more of A. Just like a slasher movie. Takings at the hotel. Bad, but there's nothing really too much to it. And, then that's it. And I think that's it I mean they remade. They did. It was in color got when that came out. And in had Vince Vaughn as anything perkins. Part really, it was the first movie. Was it. Any good I didn't see it because why the fuck would you WanNa, make a direct sequel. I mean it's actually a remake is remake and its shot for shot. All it is the original, but with different characters and it's. Modernized in. No really not going to doing the color. Fact that they wanted to Redo those showers with all the blood. Gotcha? Okay! Yeah. Okay, well I'll check out the sequels then so. Yeah definitely check out at least psycho to. Like I said it's got an interesting twist at the end of story. Because pretty much Vera Miles. Character is trying to get revenge on. Norman on Norman is the boyfriend you know that the other guy is he n? No, just be okay. Tilles in it. Tilley, Jennifer Tilly sister. Okay. I rolls you really young and. So what year would this Ben when it came out? Would you say psycho to? Eighties! Eighties Okay Yeah, so it was twenty years later, so it was one thousand, nine, hundred eighty. Two was actually twenty years later. From the original movie from the original tea was in in prison for twenty years and. All that he's. He's real. He's you know he's not sick anymore. The psychiatrist you know dinners job. Never thing okay, and he's actually you know. Not Crazy anymore. Interesting, yeah? and. They're trying to make them crazy again because they want back in jail. So it's really good movie oh wow. It's written by Tom Holland. The guy that did. Friday. Okay all right. I have to check it out. Okay? Definitely had a movie. Surprise me when I saw. This, but then heard a lot about it. All right and I saw it in the theaters. I was like blown away. I was like oh I mean it's not like I said. Not as good as the first one, but it's good, but it's good okay where it's at least. Worth watching. Okay so. No I just I again. It was so just so exciting to wash it. Watch it with fresh eyes, and you know like I. I knew you're like what? What I told you I was like well. I gotTa tell them and. I just. The Music Yeah van it just. And I just love that you know the era and you know the payphones and you know. Just it was such a different time fan. Just I love that nostalgia feel the cars and the way they dressed and everything and just the register at the hotel. You know the signing in I. Think some hotels still do that navy? The older ones you know, not a chain or anything may be but. You know just all that just the feel of the film. I just loved that like the consistency throughout the film of how. People get caught in lies throughout the entire film. Rob Hall I log within the investigator and he caught him, and all those yeah, wasn't they? Let me look it's there. It's like well. You know Janet Lee when she gets pulled over by police officer. You know she's lying through teeth been. Knows it and she goes in. Her. Yes, she goes the by the new car. And the the salesman's gone. What the Hell's wrong with this? Yeah. Right yeah, exactly for A. Customer pressure the salesman sales I loved that Satan and she almost drives off without her bags in that much of a hurry. He has to bring over to, and that tension is throughout the film absolutely, and then you get it to where you have seen it before, so when Noren start doing it, you can relate to him. You know what I'm saying so when investigators going. Seen! This is no. Added off, never seen her. Always. Oh yeah, now I remember. It's tension-filled absolutely. Yeah, I mean it just doesn't stop in the in the. It's a simple thing, but the movie. Everyone's focused on that forty thousand dollars throughout the entire film. They are and Norman has no clue about it. No? No. And that's what the whole thing is is everyone is so concerned? The investigator wouldn't be. They're not really looking for. Janet, lease character really want to have forty thousand dollars. I mean you know this? Is You know if she just turns herself? She just returns the money. You know we'll be fine. You know we just need to find you know find her, and then we'll go ahead and have her. Give the money back and you know as soon as you something and do something wrong. You're already written off. It's not oh. We should find out what happened to her. No, we were trying to find out what happened that forty thousand. Norman, his uncle. What are you talking about forty thousand dollars? I just love it because. Like, she would never do that. Yeah, and then the end, so what happened to the money? Exactly? Thiessen crimes of of this was about money was crimes of passion. Yeah, I was like. I think even even says it's in the swamp. Yeah? I think he might think he mentioned. No I mean even from the opening scene with them. You know fooling around in the. Hotel Room and you know. It's. Like. Oh, my Gosh! Yeah, and then the creepy guy that fi in the house for his daughter and. And then she. You know back in the day when you trust your employees with. The manager even says that you know she's worked for me for ten years or whatever I trusted Chugai. Try when I think any differently you know, and so she just puts it in her purse and the. Team is money is evil. Yeah. Yeah. Really Mean Away out in a in a different life that she was going to see the boyfriend rights. You're GonNa see the that's what I thought. Yeah, and then you know. Hey, here's the money. And because I think he was down on his locker, something something going on, well, he yeah, he got divorced and she took him for his money and he's. He's paying alimony. And he's living at the store. They runs in the eight. That's right that's right, and that's where the sister finds him. Yes, the store Yeah Yeah It's just there's so many layers to it and so much tension and things going on. It's not you know what I mean. Just it's you through this. It's a very simple story, but then you get into the layers, and there's a lot of layers. Yeah, and it's not only what's happening with the the characters. It's all the stuff that then you get into Norman. Anna's mother. And all those layers. Yes Dick. Amy Even even the sheriff. I, mean all that's right when she gets to yeah. When the sister and the boyfriend, the Sheriff knows Norman. He knows all about his background and you're finding out all the stuff it. It's like no one's just put in there just to be put in. Everyone has to stick background and everything's intertwined and everything works. It's a IT'S A. One of the better screenplays that you could study if you were a filmmaker. If you wanted to study a screenplay, this is one of them and you said you did in school. I, did I? Yeah this movie. and it's like I I've seen it so many times, but I just watch it again. It was like I don't want. Even watch it again and it's. Still good movie it still gets you name that I mean. I could see how it could like I said I. mean this was kind of like my first quote, unquote viewing but. I I could totally watch it again. And again, because it's so good, and you know and it just. An hour how many years later it's sixty years sixty years later and Yeah, and that's why we chose to do what I think, too, so yeah. Yeah the sixties. Sixtieth anniversary of. Psycho catch doesn't even seem is coming out and. Blu Ray on a four K. version. And what are they doing that? I don't have dates on that, but We're still trying to find out if they're going to do the uncut version which I had, we had discussed all. Yeah, we discussed that yeah. So when I watched the film I was like this is the cut version. Okay! Okay. Like you said. It's not a lot, but. It doesn't it doesn't take anything away from the film? Just little tiny things, but yeah. Well, that's nice to match to know. I think you'd mentioned it, but yeah the release on Four K. blu-ray. That'll be us if you get to watch movie again. At the very end. If, you really look. When Norman goes I wouldn't even hurt. A fly is looking up. And it starts the search the fade. You see the mother's face over his face the skeleton. Very quick. But it gives you that creepy. Creepy feeling from it. Very subtle, but you can see it. Next dairy and they're pulling the car out of Yup. Yeah. Okay! Yeah I remember that. Crazy. Little Hint wraps up and I last I just loved it again because he's talking as his mother. And? He's just given the facial expressions. And then when he looks up, says I wouldn't even her fly. Yeah the look. Great. So well written, and like you said it's not that complex of the story, but it doesn't have to be if you do it right, you know it's all about the layers. It's all about. The characters seemed full. They don't seem contrived or just. Put their for just any reason. Everything seems to work and everything. Everyone has their own agenda. Everyone. I mean it's so. It looked so easy like you look at it and go. Oh Man, anybody can write that it's not. It is. Well written screenplay and performed and masked fleet directed by by Alfred Hitchcock. I mean. He took his time. He did it right didn't skimp on anything especially to take three weeks to shoot US killing. Does like why would you do that, but? At the scene so important because it's a pivotal moment where the film goes from one character to another. It's true. So. You have to make a devastating. To the people go? And, that's I don't think that was. That wasn't done all that often in film was it I, didn't think so, and and it's funny because the ending to. where? And I love that scene of your miles is in the is in the basement and she thinks that the mothers there because she's in the back and. Hits the Shoulder. Just slowly turns the skeleton and scream, and the norman comes out dressed up as his mother. Just freaked out. Even say like. When you're talking about what happened and the guy goes transvestite. He's like Oh. Yeah, no, he's not. Seen It. Did that great how he just? Puts it all out there and. They really didn't need to have that scene they didn't really need to. Have A guy. Go over everything that happened. I liked it, but it was there because audiences were just so freaked out. It gave them time to calm down so. Like okay, let's recap everything so you. So you guys can come down. And, that's exactly why it's there. Yeah Very well done. And it gives you more insight of what was happening because it is a subject matter that. Isn't really done in filled. The guy's got a split personality in dress up as his mother and having conversations with himself with each other themselves. Yeah, exactly right and sometimes acting as Norman sometimes acting as his mother. He could be booth personalities. FOR STATIONS! Crazy just crazy. Yeah, I was just. So then you kind you go over the film and you're going. Wow, that's freaky because the scenes. Where you're hearing a mother him. So! You're going over everything while he's talking about. You're like oh Jesus. You because it was so good that you thought it was the conversation between two people him. Your latest knock on. The skeleton, or whatever yeah. Were devastated of what happened in the. Oh my God. Really Yeah really seriously. This guy's talking to himself. He sounds like his mother. Don't put began a fruit seller. On my God. Carries her down there and the scene. where the investigators going up the stairs. So, well done, it's all quiet and he's going up. And he shouldn't and you know. And this is the kind of thing you see it in psycho to as well. Everyone just comes walking in the house. They don't knock. They don't. Fall. Right in, so he comes in, and you know he shouldn't be there, but. You're with it and. The, the music's not there, and then he's walking up the stairs, and then it cuts to the door slowly opening. Here like want build up of tension. So you have that overhead shot so when Norman comes out of the door, it's a shock and I remember. Watching that part when when I was in film school. And These kids and every single person in the room jumped clear out of their seats. I've never seen anything like it in my wife. I Bet I is so well done attention so well built. I was like that's one of the guys master. Wow! Wow! And? That's why it's still you know. Why US Bengal and scary today I mean they now, and in such a good film that you know it's stood the test of time and. It's still very, you know. I mean I it shows what you could do with hormone. Yeah! And it's not like. Any other horror film that you've seen before. It's not like blatantly okay. Norman Bates his mother. Is You know Pretty Krueger? Right, but you know you could of made her into that, but he doesn't. He keeps it real. But he finds creative ways to build tension any sticks to. Building character. And keeping each each segment of the film as a piece, and all the cases come together. and. To where you've actually been through this roller coaster ride. Of. STORY IN A in. Wow. I can't say enough about the film I mean. Like I said, it's a perfect example of great. screenwriting. And Direction? Yep! Just amazing. This is like how you feel about this Chelm. How I feel about night I think. So yeah, I mean. I mean. I, you know nine. Dad's another great movie and it goes. It goes along with. There's a lot of really good movies. And when you see him. They're far and few between, but when you do see one, you can really appreciate it being not only a fan, but. As a filmmaker, clearly you go, wow! You're like how did that happen? How does this guy figure this out why? How how did that just come about you know? Where you go, okay, there's a scene in the script words. Lady gets killed in shower. I'm going to spend three and a half weeks. To shoot it, and he only Alfred Hitchcock could get away with that. No other filmmaker they'd be like. What are you talking about? We spent three and a half weeks on a shower killing. She should take. Only a data shoe at afternoon or something. Yeah, okay. BOOM BOOM BOOM! Did she gets? Done why? Trust me. And whole thing was. Is that even the studio? was going. What the hell are you doing Elford? We love you, but. Seriously And then like I said they showed the cut without the music and they're like. What is this? And then Bernard Hermann comes in with his. Credible, soundtrack of wow. Unreal how could? Again. It's that combination of visuals. Great acting good screenplay and music. All the aspects of filmmaking come together showing how it can work together. and Boom. You gotTA classic. Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. Yeah I just. It's. I don't know again when a movie like sixty years old. And we're. Excited about talking about it. And we're dissecting it. You know I. Mean That says a lot and I mean. Alfred Hitchcock is huge. He's iconic. We all know that, but again you know. I mean how many films can you talk about? Like this that are sixty years old. How many I mean not many. Stood the test of time where I can watch it, and you've watched it thousands of times, and you watched it recently and you still like all that Stugotz me or that Oh. My Gosh, you know I felt the seat. Still feel the same way about this scene. You know I, it's it's that. The definition of classic. As a filmmaker I'm going I'll this really gives me go? I WANNA. Make our now. I s the reason why I make `rational. It's very reasonable that the I mean that's just another feather in its cap. You know what I mean just. Yeah I, like I want to make something that is as exciting as this film. Right, how do you do that? It's not something you could be taught to do. It's like here. Here's a here's an artist that was inherently has this in his blood kind of like with other great filmmakers like Spielberg and. I mean it's just. John Carpenter and Ohio. And then here's the challenge. How do you do it with so much has been done. Well. I mean with every genre. you know the horror genre. They've done the okay. I've seen this before I've seen. And hoti make it fresh. How do you make it new and exciting hitchcock film? Absolutely you know it's. It's not easy because I mean if you look like it like I said. If you look at the screenplay, there is no nothing in the screenplay is going to say okay. The knife's coming in this way in the in the knife hitting the. Killed in the shower, right, yeah! Story. Right! Right. So, how do you make that? You know well? And you're exactly right terrifying so here here you go. Here's Alfred Hitchcock taking a slasher movie in doing something different with it. You know it's not your typical slasher movie. I wouldn't even call us last year man. To be honest, I really wouldn't and. I? Don't see it that way, but it is but then. It's in its. In its heart, it is a horror film in its heart. It is a slasher film, but it's so much more because he tried to make something different and he had a lot. A lot of good things were going for with a screenplay. You know and it took his tail to go. You know the scene. Is a pivotal scene and I need to make a statement, so that's why an spent three and a half weeks shooting it and I just found how many cuts there were in that sequence there seventy eight cuts in forty five seconds. Wow. Oh my God and They had a scene is only how many seconds forty five seconds. That's how long the scene S. three and a half weeks for forty five seconds film. And, they had a like a double for Janet Lee. For the new scenes of course then show anything, but and showing right right right, but it was a double. Her head on the floor looking that's her head, but there's a couple of scenes where a couple of scenes in the. Shower where we see her back, and she kneeling down at one point trying to fight her. That's not her okay. When she first gets into the shower and goes and gets turn the shower on. That's not her. That's it's a double. Wearing. She's not nude, but wearing a like A. Like A. I don't know something over her. That skin tight. That looks like skin, but it's. Wow. Might. Be Way off on this, but I. Don't think I am. That's Jamie Lee Curtis his mom. Okay good. I hope I was hoping I didn't blow that all right which he actually got. The you know, be act with her mother in the fog. Gotcha generals in that with. Her daughter. Is that carpenter. Second movie yeah. Okay Gotcha, then they redo it. Didn't they redo it? They did a remake again why? So that was bad. Okay because. Y great fantastic. Leave it alone. Kerber is best. Totally. I yeah absolutely yeah. But she when she's laying on the ground with her head. Cameras in her eyes. She has she had the whole. Open if you really look Kinda, see here iris over I kind of moving twitch and a little bit. Like. A hell, he's supposed to do that. You know how. Three and a half weeks. Forty five seconds of film. Cats insane. Wow. I just. So many different shots. And had set everything up. 'cause you know back then. the cameras are huge. That's true you know they had. Container Over the film camera the keep the sound. The sound. Can't those cameras were so loud? It had it had a thing built over it to muffle the sound, so we're near record shooting the film, it would be silent. For the sound recording. Gotcha. So they had to build the set of the shower and be able to be able to move the walls, and so he could get all the different camera angles that he wanted. And Yeah. There's like seventy eight different shots in their. STEPS INCREDIBLE WOW! That's wow. And the main thing about hitchcock. Is that. His? Way He made a film was. What he enjoyed doing was the preparation of the film like putting the Story Board together and can everything when he was actually filming. It was kind of an afterthought to him. But he enjoyed planning. and. You know making sure that everything's right and all the shots and then it was like. To me to the film's over. We were just shooting it. Yeah, so you could see that he. He meticulous was like plan that. Each shot seventy eight different shots on the story board going okay and try to sell that. To a producer. What are you doing? was his his I. Know You. Hitchcock was making movies since the winnings. Okay. But. He was at the top of his game and universal. Like. Everyone, he was like Spielberg. Okay here's making so much money for them like well. It's hitchcock. It's GonNa be good. Okay. and. They were Kinda. Lilia fee until they heard. Bernard Hermann Soundtrack and then he went. Oh, my God. What a great movie! Didn't. Didn't and then. and. Then on that and then. Right. Yeah, it's so simple, but. It pulls you into the film right at the beginning of the opening credits. Like This, yeah absolutely. Just like little subtle the. As we've talked about some of the simplest scores. In the connection between him, stuffing birds. In the knife, looking like a beak and the screeching of birds during the shower scene. L.! That was all implied, so you have the scene between them and. There's a shot where gently stands up, and there's a bird in the background with the beak, and it looks like a knife going into her. Own foreshadowing there. And then you see the. The scene with a knife coming in, and it looks like a beak, and the screeching of the a sounds like a bird screech Scou- okay Gotcha Yeah It's the little things. The little nuances that really. And layers. Yeah and make a great. Show all done. So I'm glad glad you saw with kind of fresh eyes. That's. I really did I really did yeah I I was. Trying to remember. When I saw with fresh eyes and I couldn't remember. I when I saw I already knew about. The shower scene and all this other stuff, so it was kind of. It didn't have the impact, so I said it Mike. Guy Would have been great to see the film and that know anything about it. It will really blown you away. That's true. That's true. That's our shower scene because they just committee even still even still great still. And File. Definitely have to check out the sequel to. Go to and maybe even the third. We'll see that Third, but again it's not. Do you all now. All three only own the first to. The first two, okay? So. Very cool and that no I guess we'll wrap it up here. All right and then we'll have to decide what we're GONNA. Talk about next week will make it a surprise or well I think it's your turn pick so. We're GONNA ALTERNATE SO boy? I now. God here we go. He's GonNa hate it. Don't breathe to. Direct committee all, but it's awesome Rod. Trust me Good, it's no. You've got to trust me on this. You do so She gets to California and then I won't tell you anything after that, but Grove. She loved the airport. Let's see it in the car and go. A. Turkey baster looking for you. The Guy. With the. Rent he rents a car toys out there with a Turkey baster. My God. Oh the Tesla, so address itself so it works. Never has to recharge his. You know four days. His is or anything like that. No, not at all. Not at all. I think about that, but you're right now. It just takes him right out there. Oh. Oh boy. Through? Turkey baster. Oh my God. Google. That's a break and joke. That's an eighties joke. You guys didn't know if he didn't find that out. You know so. Anyway No not really I don't know. Up trying. But I will start thinking of something. Of a movie for next week. And I, love it. And I know you're GONNA like it. Oh. Good Graces Rob I. Think I've. Fallen out of the. Carnival souls man we're. Carnival souls, and if I know that, do i. that's an old. Black and white. Okay. I. Don't think I think about. Money man done. Fisher will come up. Right. Do, do do. That I I love them. Well, what's left of them, but anyway? I know. So until next week, thanks guys for listening free shade it. horror vein DOT COM. You're listening to us on Apple podcast. Leave us a review or some stars. It helps us out a lot. And! Again, we have a store. You can get t shirts. We're GONNA. Be Add more stuff. I know it keeps saying that. We are. But. Yeah, it's really cool. took it out. It helps us out. And again our listeners from New, York that keep just piling on man I love that straight, so we had more and more from New York. Yes, we are! They love us. Awesome, sweet! Who Your new! York. Thank you big apple. Chicago Pizza Oh. We just lost. that. They're all gone. If. They haven't left already. They're definitely gone now. So that's all right anyway. Thanks for listening. We'll catch you next week. Horror Vein. Take care. Have a good week. Dude world is. Fear. Film Studios PODCAST network.

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Horror in TV and Film - Best of Coast to Coast AM 7/17/ 2020

The Best of Coast to Coast AM

15:25 min | 1 year ago

Horror in TV and Film - Best of Coast to Coast AM 7/17/ 2020

"Did you know GEICO's now offering an extra fifteen percent credit on car and motorcycle policies? That's fifteen percent on top of what guy could already save you. So what are you waiting for your dentist to actually believe you and your flashing every day? Absolutely great and you're cutting down on your sweets, of course wonderful. Then I don't even need to look in their great see in six months. There's never been a better time to switch to GEICO. Save an extra fifteen percent when you switch by October. Seventh limitations apply visit. GEICO DOT COM for details. Hey, FAM- Jada. Pinkett, Smith here bringing your favorite red table, talk episodes to podcast. I want to introduce you to the most important women in my. My life, my mom gammy. She's really old school. I never wanted you be in that situation like not date will at all, and then we have my daughter. Willow, I'm going to be like my ancestors interest. Do what I need to do. Listen to the Red Table, talk podcast presented by Facebook Watch and Westbrook audio on the iheartradio APP apple, podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast now here's a highlight from coast to coast. AM on Iheartradio and welcome back to coast to coast. George Noory with you. We'll take calls with Christopher Garin tunnel next hour. His websites are linked up at coast to coast. Am Dot Com Christopher in your opinion? What makes us successful Horror Phil? What are the ingredients? You know there was a There's only one academic study to answer that question. My guy named David Aldrich Harvard psychiatrist when I first heard about this book and the study. I was like a head is not gonNA figure this out, but he started with a love shore. And, he really made a lot of sense. It's like the best if someone really wants to get into. Get into the formula because there really is one works. I think what makes number one a good story characters that you can care about number two and then suspense. I feel like you know. The greatest horror films have suspense. You're. You're an and doesn't take too much time. spending it with the character and development just enough just enough, and then then you're thrusting these people you care about into dangerous situation or compromising situation that you feel like you could be in. And so and then there's a variety of other elements. I think horror film should hold back. You remember director Alfred Hitchcock Psycho the shower scene. We never saw the knife actually penetrating the victim, but we sure felt it. Do Yeah, yeah. I know that's probably just watching that the other night. That's seen as still and if people can imagine everything that came after that not existing how brutal that must have been. What was that nineteen sixty one? At least at least yeah, yeah, yeah, so how brutal! That scene wasn't sixty one and how shocked people that happened much like the exorcist the early Seventies. People apparently throwing up I can understand because there's nothing that vicious and powerful. It's been parodied since then, but that movie still is extremely effective and powerful. And I think. people along the way so makers along the way lost Saudi. The novelty Kinda humor. Is that too much? And missed. What work and those movies? What was so effective? Yeah came out in one, thousand, nine, sixty I think the music to every time there was slash seen. That music in the shower. I think that did it to I was Bernard Hermann. Yeah amazing stuff, and it's funny to where you know in Hitchcock's the birds. If you remember, there's no school at all no music. And you're right. You're right. When when you did the montage chronicles, tell me how much research you had to do for that. Because the story, itself was amazing. Short so I i. read the The one I book by Preston Nichols and that was enough for me to you know my interest was I wasn't adapting that book. I needed to go forward and start with a clean slate, and with the idea that I was going to speak to these men, and do my own investigation, and I what I thought was most fascinating about that. That story was in Nichols. Telling it that that that Al Buick was telling it, so that's what I did. I went to I started with visiting those guys I wanted. I wanted to look them in the is in their homes. When they told me those stories and start their anthony, my audience to that realm, and really make it authentic and connect with these guys. That was the beginning. What would your preference be? Christopher, do horror documentaries or horror movies? Or movies for sure and I I have a few huge projects coming up. The I've done television now. I had my own series on travel channel, and then just played on discovering UK and I have a couple more coming up, but my interest is. Less hosting. making works of fiction into motion pictures. It's always been my interest. That will always be so that's that's where I'm I'm pushing towards now heavily. Is Hollywood New York they starting to open up in terms of production since covid. You this is tough, so I've had several projects. Ready to go from four covert to now and because of the lockdown. You know there was one company in new. York, another company in Los, Angeles and it was. It's the ground is so shaky right now in stable so the soon as they're ready to go forward on something, a new rule is, but down, a change will be retract release of everybody back out because the disease is getting worse. So. That is It's uncertain at the moment, but I have one project that's Greenland. And I I'm fortunate enough to have that at the moment, so we'll see what happens next. Tell us about in inc.. What is that way so in ink is an independent? Picture so I can have control over the story and it's something that I wrote. last fall right after I was done. Promoting strange world is my show on travel and I was trampled show. That's right, yes! And ink is about. A young. Woman Name and drama Stephen. She's the daughter of a famous science fiction biter. and. Her mother went from being on the level of JK rollings with his beloved fan base. She wrote these adventure science fiction novels, but decided, and it was important to become a whistleblower. She believed that there was a government worn disease, not only in her blood at the moment, but in her daughter's blood, and that it was killing a lot of people, so she revealed it started writing, his anti-establishment essays didn't go over well with their fan, base or complete total world was crushed. And she ended up dying from the disease, and her daughter was left alone, and so in ink, begins with her daughter and dramas, deciding whether or not she wants to live listening to her favorite radio show riot, our which is much like 'cause goes. You know radical ideas in. And she decides to go forward and live and continue. Mothers work, but. We don't know if she's experiencing the only partial truth. And it goes into the realm of extremely Off the hook, science fiction and the a La David Cronenberg and the early eighties and She believes she's seen assassins and androids and human scan, and all of these things and I don't want the audience to know whether or not these things are reeling. Until the very end. And that's the story in short. That's that's fantastic. Tell me a little bit about your work about George Romero. An amazing, a film producer and director in put together the living dead, and he created the Zombie Culture, didn't he? Did and he claims that he was inspired by Richard Matheson's I'm sorry I am legend, which was also the movie with Vincent Price Last Man on earth, so it was kind of night of the living dead. It was a bit of remake of that by. George. Actually I met George, and he reached out to me because I was lucky enough to have met him at a venue where my first documentary was playing a handed him a copy of the DVD kindly and never thought I would hear anything from him. And he actually wrote to me, and then he called me vita either shed of diary of the dead which I went to spend. Spend some time with him and shot about seven hours of footage with him, really good stuff directing having a great conversation with him, we stayed in touch by email and unfortunately passed away a few years ago. but I. I've been sitting on footage for years. I'd never really shared it with anybody and I was sitting here as soon as we went into lockdown. You know I had a buddy. From high school died from this, and it really became so striking terrifying to me. That I didn't for a while sitting here by myself and my home. I thought that I wasn't just like a good deal of us. There's a chance we might not make it saying that this was on the packages being sent to our homes, and it was so contagious that if you touch the package came Jeez. So, sounds like. Yeah like right now. Yeah, keeps coming back for some reason, and so. I was I was afraid and I was reflecting Georgia's work. Especially, even you know some of the ideas in his films at the time when they first came out, and most of it seals like fiction, even like a movie like, and it's not a Romero film, but the purge when I came out. I thought it was ridiculous. I was like there's no way people behave like this. If given permission now I believe it's It's a very real. You know They don't even need permission. People were losing losing grasp for a little while hopefully this end good. But a lot of the fiction and horror that I grew up watching it, and then some recent years seems to becoming rishion now. Absolute George was commenting on things subtext. And I thought. The world right now. He was here. He would write his greatest shelf. He would with what's going on. For sure and all of his films, especially, the the of the dead films collectively about the so this is kind of a metaphysical documentary about me retreating into things that comforted me my my childhood like Romero films special effects makeup, and all of that, but I can't can't escape it because it's here in my face now, so all of the televisions in my home are all playing this. You know the city's burning news. This disease, spreading and people dying and I'm here watching footage of George that I shot. I'm looking back and and that's part of it, but. It's something that's I've felt compelled to make and I. Really really poured myself into so hopefully. I when I share it with everybody. Signed a good thing and you've got a novel coming out in October, don't you? graphic novel guy. It's called South. Texas lose, it's It's kind of. A fantastic vision of director Tobe Hooper Nineteen, seventy-three, very well researched, but I wrote it through his. Is What I? What I've felt a thirty year old. Movie maker Nineteen seventy-three, who hasn't had a hit needs to make a buck. ended up making the Texas chainsaw massacre almost about that summer crazy summer him making film and all of the things that happened on sad. Movie that was, wasn't it? Yeah, it was. It was insane and that's see. Here's another thing. So what? What a what a powerful horror movie and a movie! That's lasted! We're talking almost fifty years. It becomes a cult thing, doesn't it? Yes, around the world, and and so everything that happened. That's some of you know. The the heat the Texas heat no way in that house rotting meat on the table, all of that and lent to the intensity of the end of that film, if there is a formula for making a great harmful, that's kind of like basing those elements all together, understanding and letting that permeate onto the screen, letting people effective and understanding how to capture that then deal with post-production. What's the worst horror film? You've ever seen Christopher that's a tough. You know 'cause. I like a lot see. I liked some charming garbage so. I. I all know that. Some of them in recent years I think really Michigan, note they kind of. I don't i. don't know what happened. Why would I was the rocky horror picture film? Such a huge cult following I never got into that. So yeah, I I was living in new. York City in the nineties. I go to midnight shows of it I think it's just it's audience, participation and Camaraderie of the audience together, and all that it's one of the. It's also I. Call Them Long Night Pictures, so one is the living in another one evil did and other ones rocky horror picture show takes course of one night as one long night. That's another fast. You're kind of going through this journey one night listen to more coast to coast. AM every weeknight at one am eastern and go to coast to coast. Am Dot Com for more. Hi, guys. Katie lowes here, actress, mom and host of the parenting podcast Katie's Crip a show that helps women navigate the colossal changes that come with motherhood. You'll hear from resilient Mama's knowledgeable experts and me asking a whole lot of questions, it's real talk that offers real perspective on what it's really like to be a parent, so join me new episodes published every other Thursday listen to Katie's crib on the iheartradio APP, or on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi I'm Devin leary and I'm Carolina. Barbecue and we're here to tell you to dump him. Break up with your boyfriend and we want you to listen to our podcast true romance every week where we talk about our love lives, and the love lives of others. Please join our XS. Who We know will also be listening light kyle. Kyle, are you there? Hey, how's life? No, you look good though me yeah. Oh. My God, talk, please I haven't even gotten a haircut like three months. Okay, please help us pay for Carolina psychiatrist bills by listening on the iheartradio APP. Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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Hamilton Is a Movie. Or Is It? Plus: Remembering Ennio Morricone.

The Big Picture

1:14:41 hr | 1 year ago

Hamilton Is a Movie. Or Is It? Plus: Remembering Ennio Morricone.

"My name is on exander Hamilton. Things haven't done. Just, you wait. I'm Sean Fantasy I'm Amanda Ovens. And this is the big picture. A conversation show about Hamilton way back in February it was announced that they filmed twenty sixteen performance of lin-manuel. Miranda's cultural phenomenon Hamilton would be released theatrically on fifteen, twenty, twenty, one, and eventually find its way to Disney, plus all the tidy sum of seventy five million dollars then covid nineteen struck and. And that release was moved up fifteen months, arriving in homes on Disney, plus in time for the July fourth weekend today we'll be joined by the biggest Hamilton Fan I've ever met the ringers. Juliet Lipman to talk with the man about this experience revisiting the iconic stage musical in the confines of our homes but Amanda First. Let's talk a little bit of news. On the show, some sad news to start, we lost one of the greats, one of the one of the greatest contributors to the history of film, my favorite film composer ever annual Marconi who died over the weekend and ninety one years old I. Was bummed deeply by this news despite the fact that he was a man in his nineties, What was your reaction? I assume you were not a week like I was at one o'clock in the morning when this came across transit, no, I missed it, so I woke up to the obituaries, which were represented a full career, and life, and I spent a lot of time just reflecting on how awesome it would have been to live in a Palazzo in Rome and just get to rate movies for movies. I like just respect you know, and obviously like condolences to his family and his friends, and it's very sad, but it did seem like this was a person who. Who made the most of his life and career wise, just extraordinary. You can't do it any bigger than him. I think he you could quibble with whether. He's greater than Bernard Hermann. Elmer Bernstein or John Williams, or Zimmer or Alfred Newman or all of the great composers over the last hundred twenty years or so cinema, but man. He has worked with almost everybody. Everybody! He had a fifty sixty almost seventy year career writing music for films. Here's this a shortlist of all of the the films that he worked on her the directors he he collaborated with of course Sergio Leone is the man with no name trilogy, which is probably the music, for which he is best known in his completely iconic and has been parodied. PARODIED to the point of absurdity that it's it's a part of the musical lexicon I think for anybody who's ever watched a movie he also worked on is once upon a time in the West. which is my favorite thing. He's ever done and once upon a time in America. He worked on the battle of Algiers he worked on terrence. Malick stays of. Of Heaven Done John Carpenter's the thing Brian Hamas the untouchables, Quentin Tarantino's the hateful eight. He worked with his countrymen like Bertolucci in and Sergio Solely Mind Sergio, Corbu and Dr Gento, and so many incredible filmmakers William Frequent Warren. Beatty Gillo Pontecorvo George Miller Mike Nichols Oliver Stone. Adrian Line I mean who really didn't this person work with and even if? Marconi was not always working on the signature films by those filmmakers. You can see that filmmakers who fired a modicum of cloud over their careers turned to him I thought I was thinking of carpenter in this case, because carpenter writes his own music for a lot of his movies, but when he was making the thing, which was a remake of the Howard Hawks movie from the nineteen fifties. He didn't WanNa do himself wanted. The master El Maestro to come in and do basically his I mean the score for the thing is basically more Kona doing an imitation of John, carpenter score, but just better, and that's just. That's an amazing flex, and I think when people think of Marconi. They think of the the ecstasy of gold, or they think of the good, the bad and the ugly theme and Exactly, yes. And those are his those are his signature compositions, but he really could do a lot of different kinds of styles. If you listen to the work that he did for the mission or the Malik movie that I mentioned you know, these are much more sort of like elegant, orchestral, beautiful, almost like a grocery in sounds that he was able to put on screen with his movies. And he's just just an absolute genius, I we I think we tend to put people on a pedestal on this show frequently, and we're always celebrating top fives and halls of fame, but people like more coney like that's a once in a in a medium history kind of a figure. Yeah, and he occupies a space in film history, where especially for people have a slightly younger generation, Aka. You and me like when you're coming to to films so much of the invention and the creation of how movie sound has been done by him, but it's already done and you just Kinda. Kinda like in the firmament, and you know that the the the cue that I just started very badly. Singing is like I was trying to think. Is there a single more famous music cue from a movie and not just fans, because like you could obviously make an argument for the Star Wars Score, but a cue that exists wholly separate from the movie itself that just like the music alone evokes specific set of images, and a place has a life because like. If you start singing darth vader song, most people know what it is, but like you're thinking of Darth Vader, right? And such a good point. But, but that q lives on his lives completely on its own, but so it's so interesting when you come to movies and noted are outlined that. Gwen Tarantino is a big fan and did use a lot of his scores later movies in the ninety s and the two thousand, so I think probably I came to some of his work through people repurposing the scores later in life And and it just feels like this is how the world always was, but no one person just invented all of this out of his mind. It's extraordinary. It's such a great point you know I think if you think of the the most iconic film scores of all time, you mentioned Star Wars Williams I think John. Williams's jaws score probably comes to mind. You know maybe Bernard Herrmann or hitchcock especially psycho, but you're right, though sounds the e and psycho, or the Donna and jaws. All of that stuff that stuff is inextricable like you say from the movies Leona stuff is bigger it's. Outside of the movies and sure if you're a fan of Eastwood in the man with no name you would, you would think of that character when you hear some of those cues, but they've gotten so contorted and Mel Brooks movies and Abrahams ducker Abrahams Movies and they've been parodied. They've been picked over and they've been like mad magazine into the the musical lexicon in such a way that they're just music. You can just listen to them I. Mean I've been obviously listening to them all morning. They're just deeply enjoyable compositions. They're not as kind of. Fusty as you might imagine, but they are, you know the the best of them are usually very operatic They're folk. They tend to focus on loan instruments or duos and the kind of interplay between them. They become like signatures for characters a lot of times when you see like the ones I mentioned once upon a time in the West which is. You know occasionally my favorite movie ever made a kind of rises and falls over time one of the most significant. In theater experiences I've ever had. Charles Bronson character in that movie. Her Monica playes constantly plays the harmonica and last night on twitter. I shared the sort of the conclusion of final duel in that movie, which explains where the harmonica comes from, and it's just this beautiful connectivity between the filmmaker screenwriter, the composer, all of their stories, working together to make a beautiful series of images and sounds which is like that's what we're looking for. Movies were just looking to be touched were looking to feel something ineffable and I love. I love Moriconi for that I mean he just. He just gives me that in a very. This is a very sincere segment, but I feel very strongly about what he did. A legend, a maestro, the Maestro de Maestros so you know if you're if you're looking for. His work. You could spend a long time on Youtube and I would encourage people to do that. Certainly, a lot of his scores are available on spotify for you to find, but not everything is there There are dozens and dozens and dozens of movie I'm. He worked on over two hundred films. There are dozens of films from the Sixties and seventies that you know the soundtrack of. Of been reproduced, but you should just go hunting for the one that I spent a Lotta time last night, listening to two Mules for sister Sarah, which is a a post man with no name Clint Eastwood Film starring Shirley, maclaine that it's awesome, just like a great listen, so check that out if you can, and an all praise due to the legendary and your Marconi. Let's talk just a little bit about what's happening in movies. There was one small thing that came up that I wanted to mention to you and I think it puts some of the conversation. We've been having about what's happening here. In the states, sharp relief read the sporting that Ruben Ostlund, the Swedish filmmaker who's been on the show before who directed the square and force majeure, which was recently remade into downhill this year. Started shooting his new film. Than his new film is called. Triangle of sadness, which is one of the greatest titles for movie I've ever heard and frankly sums up me and my house every day. It's going to say I don't know what it is, but I know I'm living in it. So. This is a new movie starring Woody Harrelson. Apparently it said on a ship of some kind and woody Harrelson plays looks like some sort of naval commander. It's unclear to me. I was struck by the fact that I wish. I lived in Sweden where you could start making a movie again and where the COVID. Nineteen numbers were not as terrifying as they are in the United States of America, and where the idea of film production I mean, doesn't that. Doesn't it feel like it seems years away? Yes it. Does I I agree again it's it's at some point. It's hard to have these conversations especially when you start bringing in government responses and whatnot without veering into politics, but yes, I do wish that We were living in a country where circumstances were such a you know where covert were not on the rise and people were and we weren't having to deal with all of these horrifying realities of Health and Economics let alone movie making that. We do I very much. Agree with you. Tenant come July thirty first. You ready tell it's not July. Thirty got pushed back. August twelfth. August twelfth, because that is the week I took for vacation. Thank you Christopher Nolan I see. Oh, it's fine. I'll see it I. It's fine, but yeah August. Twelfth in in scare quotes. You can't skate. See Right now. You know I was been reading a bit about Nolan. Making attempts to to wrap my head around his his career in his work, and it struck me that he's turning fifty years old this year. I think August actually is when he's turning fifty years old. he I believe August second birthday which. Makes EEO, would you? Would you say he? Has You know this is a couple? Leo's talking on a podcast. Would you say he has signature qualities of the Leo absolutely? You and I also ban chairs wherever we are also. That was debunked. That was shared. Ya Credible. Incredible Brumer from that Anne hathaway stoked by implying that. Christopher Nolan on his film sets always wants people working in action, and so there are no chairs on his sets, and then literally dozens of people came forward in the days after and said. I have sat in many chairs on Christopher over. Different types of chairs not. GonNa cure all the types of chairs that Christopher Nolan owns and is various homes and on his sets in his offices. Yeah sure Leia quality seems exacting and specific and. Tentative about how Christopher Nolan really believes in the theater experience, which I said in that scare voice, because it's so fraught, but you know a year ago before co vid, b believing in theater, experience and having enough success and clout to insist that you're movies. Be Seen in a certain way is I'm indefinitely. Oh, vibes, but also something that I have some respect for I. You know I. Respect people who have a vision and who liked to see that vision and acted just so is that vision about everything is in the past, and also the future, and all your wives are dead. Is that the vision. That's definitely true for me so. k., God bless him. Tenant August twelfth. Doesn't it doesn't feel right to me? It don't think it's going to happen. I could be wrong. there's been a lot a lot of conversation about. Where's the best place for movie like tenants live? We agree that it should be in movie theaters I. Don't I. Don't know I don't know when we'll be. Theaters are going to be open. I'm with you. Let's talk a little bit about the Oscars. The Oscars made some changes last week, and they did this after we recorded, so we didn't get a chance to talk about it, but about five or six days ago, the Oscars added eight hundred nineteen new members. If you think back to ten or twelve years ago, they were fewer than five thousand members in the academy, and the Academy has grown so radically over the last decade, and in part pushed by the leadership over the last couple of years and a handful of presidents that have reigned in that time. And they've done so for you know one very specific reason which is to make that body, more diverse and the academy more than any publicly debated group is probably one of the whitest oldest and most male organizations that we had back in the I don't know late two thousands, and into the early two thousand ten. and. Now. We see that they super pass this diversity goal that they've set for yourself. of the new, people who've gotten forty-nine percent of those new. Members are international. Forty five percent are women. Thirty six percent are identified as under represented by ethnic or racial means. Sixty eight countries are represented on the list. This is a pretty. Significant moment the I mean it's it's really the culmination I suppose of the last five years of worth at the academy has been trying to do. But what do you make of the now ten thousand members of the academy and the fact that it's not just the bunch of you know eighty four year old men who worked on Benson Manelli film in the nineteen sixties. Everything that you just said. Great, it is funny. You know when they announced this. They also announced some of individual members who are invited at its minutes, just often like reading a list of all your faves, and it's very some of the people that you wrote here. You Know John David Washington Florence Peo- Brian Henry Luang Ari Astor. Many of the actors from parasite, it like great love. All those people put him in. Charge things good by me. So, it's like it's I mean it's. It's hard to have anything but a positive reaction to that and I also do. appreciate the academy trying to do something and she recognized that the way that it has been is not the way that it has to be how those changes like actually ultimately. Take place or what results we get is like a different conversation and one that is only seen over time, but I'm happy for all of these people who are in the economy. It's interesting I mean I in the past I have written about the academy I've described them as kind of secret cabal, specifically of older folks and one thing that in the last three or four years that the new roles that they've added here represent a lot of young people you know. AQUAFINA and data and Florence Pugh. These are young performers. And the resumes may not be as long as people who have been added in the past, but they have obviously made an impact. They have appeared in films that have been recognized by the academy. They have fan bases. They have a different point of view and so. There's something powerful here because what it does. Is it specifically give them voice? It gives them a voice, not necessarily at the Board of Governors, but let's them vote and that's really the thing that we're keeping an eye on here is what are the films that are celebrated? How does the academy continue to reckon with how the world is changing, and also frankly in real time reckon with past sins, which is something that I every organization in America has been thinking about and dealing with in the last six weeks eight weeks three months five. Hundred Years. You know there's this constant kind of reckoning with what the past representative what the future can be, and so you know. Again at the risk of being sincere like the Kademi, they have done an amazing job at this. They probably have a lot more work to do. There's a lot that we don't know about what goes into this process. And who gets added at Y BUT BRIAN tyree. Henry is voting for Oscar somehow. I feel a little bit better. Right? Yeah I agree. This is also a great lesson. In when the KADEMI actually like gives us information on what they're doing. You get a positive result so often it's as. As you mentioned is shrouded in secrecy or they're like. Hey, we're thinking about doing this whether it's like the best popular Oscar or the you know diversity initiatives, which I think, they announced the intention to pursue, but they have not outlined the specifics of that yet. So and also you know in more like inconstant or inconsequential, but kind of silly things they also just don't show the vote totals, but look what happens academy. When you share what you're doing with, specific people are really psyched. Just DISA- tip. Yeah, there's one there's one interesting wrinkle to this year's announcement of the new roles that I wanted to talk about what he which I think is interesting and Oh yeah, that that is the addition of a new wing essentially to the voting academy, and that is the agents now a lot of people. Who are you know kind of drive by consumers of the Oscar of Oscar content people who don't pay close attention to. To this as you and I, do might just think that the academy is comprised of actors and directors and writers and producers, and maybe some crafts people, and that's it, but the academy is is full of a Lotta people. It's you know for a long time. executives and publicists and managers to some extent had an opportunity to participate in this process, and they have their own branches wings in some cases. This added agents. Agents have never been able to vote specifically as part of the academy and. You. You seem a little dismayed by this news. Is GonNa make an inappropriate joke about agents being allowed to vote more generally. There's no voter suppression on the big picture. Period yards depression on the big picture. That's true. We are destroying gerrymandering. We are for fair and decent practice we are. We are true, and that's why. I didn't make the inappropriate joke, even though I sort of did a drive by. But I, what actual voting is really important and I just want to be clear that I endorse that okay agents in the academy. Now my favorite of the announcements I mean it's specific, but you know you note here in the outline and think it's that agents often do have a lot to do with like a movie actually happening and that's important because we like it when movies happen. And we're sat when they don't. As the last three months of this podcast is evidence of. I think agents are often a lot of the reason that movies don't happen, and they wield a lot of power, and they are really outside of the creative process, and they are ultimately, and they're exceptions to this and I think there are good agents. I but I guess I can't believe I just not all agent did, but I think. The I mean this is just getting going really off the rails. But more often than not the work that they're doing is not in service of a project, but it's in the service of a person on the project and listen. Advocating for yourself and having people who advocate for you is great in like. Everyone deserves that advocacy and so often. It's only the people with a lot of resources. You had that advocacy so I? Don't WanNA diminish that but. I don't know you know. Entourage. People Watch entourage for a reason. It just. It raises an interesting. Level raises an interesting point about what is the purpose of the voting body, and who should be able to participate, and should it be people who are materially involved? In the producing of The Work of art or should people who are you know who participate in the the sort of the machine of Hollywood? Is it much it kind of clarifies the Oscars and a lot of ways as what it is, which is an industry party at an industry event. It's not it's not a critical body like the Golden Globes or the New, York film, critics, circle, or you know the those are awards that are given by journalists and e- even the Hollywood foreign. Foreign Press to some extent is a group of journalists. This is a for us by US kind of kind of convention. That's what the Oscars is and agents more than ever in terms of packaging and driving big big big projects to the forefront, and even frankly helping smaller filmmakers get attention and get seen they do they do play pretty big role in not just the machinery of Hollywood, but the the sort of creative forward progress of careers, which is important. And that is important to the extent that kind of some of the roles are defining, and who does what on on these projects. Does shift and I think if you're working on behalf of someone who wasn't going to get as much attention or resources, or even be able to make a movie and then they did, and it was fantastic that you absolutely played a role in that, but you know agent is kind of. Maybe unfairly as kind of a dirty word. It is an carries with a certain stigma it it raises some kind of fascinating additional questions about you know if you if you work in public relations and you help. Of is movies of the public. You didn't make the movie, but you may be materially made. People understand what the movie was, so is that. Should you be able to say? Green Book is Your Best Picture of two thousand and nineteen? Because you have participated in that? Maybe you should, it's it's really it's ultimately not for us to say because we are not actually in the industry, there are a lot of awards that people like you and I get to hand out you and I don't hand it out, but. There is a lot of opportunity for the press. The observers in the critics to do things, and so it's a little bit difficult to. Navigates, Marshall, who should or should not vote, but. In fairness, you're making basically had the exact same reaction. When I saw the news, I was like Oh agents really. You know. Maybe it's the. If you bring them inside the circle, then it's it changes the conversation I don't really know. I, don't know it. I'm not an academy yet, so it's not up to May. We'll have to wait and see I. I I'm imagining now. April twenty fifth, or so is the Academy Awards of Twenty Twenty One so we've got in the neighborhood of nine and a half months until we get to the Oscars, which is just mind bending to think about and in that time you're going to have ten thousand voting members already the academy's voting site hosting films, so if you are a member, you can go check out never rarely sometimes always or mo or a handful, the other films that have been made available there. We'll see maybe with ten thousand people. They'll get more shit, right. You think they will. I have no idea I can't I mean, are they? GonNa. Have it is April twenty fifth who knows who knows I like all the people we named, and many of the other people who were inducted into the academy this year, so congratulations to them. Okay well next. We're GONNA. Talk about a movie that will not be qualifying for any Oscars, but that is at least in movie form nonetheless, but first. Let's take a quick break. Dear word from our sponsor. 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Juliet, I'm going to provide listeners a lot of details about the history of Hamilton, but before I start boring everybody just very quickly. Can you explain? What, this show means to you personally. Geor, In the summer of Twenty fifteen. My parents saw Hamilton at the public and they're like it's good. Some things repeat repeat, but it's good. And in the heights is just in the heights. It's like on my top ten list. Most listen to every year on spotify. It's called Champagne, it's one of the final songs enact to. It's the fourth to last song. and I just loved the work and the ideas in the spirit of minimum and a so much. I think he is earnest and interested in connections and ideas in the city of New York in a way that I really really to having also grown up in Manhattan and I just like find his work incredibly energizing. I, really really really really recommend the musical. He did for this American life back in two thousand nine. I think also starring Anthony. Ramos who plays John Lawrence and Philip Hamilton and. It's called twenty one jump street and I just think he's like so smart in the way that he used the world through his curious lines is really evocative and moving to me and important to me, and so in September two thousand fifteen I, want on stubhub and bought tickets, and I was just like I need to be a part of Hamilton like I just need to be. Be Part of it, and so I bought tickets paid so much money. It was like way too much than they should have. And it was like a transformative experience about ideas and the way that you can engage with ideas, and I've never recovered from it. I've since Seen Hamilton additional four times in two other cities three a New York once in L. A. Once in London. And I, couldn't sleep on. Friday night so I started watching Hamilton I'm my ipad at four am. On July third and then I stopped. Because I'm not getting the best experience so I. Just Watch the first forty minutes. So, what you've just explained to us as that you're insane, which is very very very generous, if you. No Chance. Of course we all do. That's why you're here. It's because you have a passion for this Amanda and I have also saw this show on Broadway for those of you who are not familiar with it. That probably means you're either dead or have been living in a bomb shelter for the last ten years, but this is of course lin-manuel. Miranda's acclaimed Broadway musical adapted from Ron Chernow's acclaimed biography of the American founding father. This show essentially combines hip hop and rb songwriting with the kind of classical great man tropes. You find a lot of Broadway shows he uses the flair extend phrasing and styles of the notorious B I g at mob, deep in a tribe called quest, and beyond say dynamics, the songwriting here is is unusual relatives of the kinds of songs that you usually hear too broad musical, although it also features a lot of the same hallmarks that you'll hear and abroad musical, which is I? Think an interesting thing for us to talk about Juliette. You mentioned your folks at the public in fifteen came to Broadway shortly thereafter. It's an amazing piece of theater. There are of course a number of interesting things to talk about here like the casting choices that he made the way that this show is celebrated I mean this is a show that has won eleven. Tony's a Pulitzer Prize and Miranda was awarded a MacArthur Genius Grant. In the realm of popular culture, is there a more celebrated and beloved thing than Hamilton Amanda? Let's wait to get to the criticism of Hamilton in general. Do you think that this is like is this? Is this an untouchable piece of culture in your mind. Well untouchable is a loaded question I think. Pick up with what you were saying. Which is that Hamilton is just like an extremely lauded and also extremely popular piece of pop culture, but what's to singular about Hamilton and it's just like massive massive. Reach and phenomenon of Hamilton is that it had not been available in like its full form, which is like a theater musical production to do most people until this weekend until it was available and apple, plus because as you mentioned, it was a a Broadway was at the public, and then it was a Broadway show. You know Broadway is in new. York their logistical as well as financial considerations as Juliet. a lot of people came to Hamilton through the soundtrack. It seemed I knew that Hamilton was a big deal when I can't remember whether it was two, thousand, sixteen or two, thousand seventeen by my mother, who lives in Atlanta, Georgia and who has been a wonderful mother to me, but I cannot say that she is the most like pop culturally with it. Individual it's she spending her time on other things and she asked if I would please get her this soundtrack of Hamilton on CD because that's where my mother is technologically speaking and also the book that. That was released so that she could read about Hamilton and listen to music and have some sense of what this major pop culture phenomenon was, and that was when I was like Oh this is this is really really big, and you know we talk a lot about kind of the loss of the mono culture and shared experiences, and like game of thrones, being the last thing that everybody else was like really involved in, but I like an how hard it is to create sensations like that now in a sort of fragmented world, but Hamilton like was really everywhere. which is which is remarkable. It also think it appealed to the sensibilities of people who were eager to celebrate it and that I don't mean that. As a criticism, I mean. It was an immensely covered piece of culture. There was a lot to read about it a lot to unpack about. If there was a lot, you know there was famously I think one hundred fourteen pieces on slate dot com about Hamilton from Twenty fifteen through twenty nineteen. That's that's a that's a lot of influence on on one single from one single show. Juliet you really like you bought in in full. But was there ever a time when you felt like you were growing cynical around the colt that had grown around this show I think only only recently I was kind of dreading coming out. because. I. Just think the world in which we receive it in a o Scott wrote about this in the times, but the way the world which are receiving it this week is so vastly different from the whispers that were around in two, thousand, fourteen and fifteen, and then it's like final rival on Broadway was like so exciting, and then it just like really skyrocketed from. From there, but it's just such a different world in in so many ways like Hamilton the kind of like the funny thing then popped out. That was perfectly timed with like. Probably the the peak moment instagram was then all the celebrities going so like when the San Antonio Spurs were in town, like who people laughing at who had a sit behind Leonard and. and. Then you know Lin Manuel. Miranda. Really famously missed. He was out sick. The night that the Obamas went so his like one of his longtime collaborators who was under study for the original cast. His name is heavier menas. He also starred in in the heights he performed for the Obama isn't like lin-manuel. Miranda's talked about a lot and it just became such. Such a thing for celebrities to go to the show, and then be photograph with the cast afterwards, and it was like who's benefiting more from this photo, the celebrity or for the cast who's cooler boards like very unclear, and that was a time when I think the sheer act of casting all nearly all people of Color in in all their principal roles for. For sure completely was such a bold statement of clarity that now feels I. think a lot less significant than it did at the time. and I think that also you know a lot of the close readings of Hamilton that came out in the beginning. We're so focused on Lens reverence for hip hop, and his reverence for writing I mean a lot of people. People Point till the truly miraculous line in take a break that Angelica sayings at when she's focusing on the Kama that he puts in addressing her my dearest Jessica, and that feels while for people you know for someone like me like loves read and works in media, things about words and writing and sentence structure is such a revelation to be a musical it. It feels so small in the broader context of how the entire nation is engaged in reevaluating American history so while this musical may have been early to that. It now feels like it just in some ways in go far enough in. It's hard. I think if you're really engaging without work to feel it's hard to sink that up with the joy and jubilation. Jubilation in Glee that I self I sell personally derive from this music. All Yeah, I think we should get into some of the criticisms after we talked about this as a movie. Just because they're, they're useful to UNPACK. And they're the sort of things that with time, and with a massive amount of exposure become more clear, but I agree I mean I. Remember seeing the show. I WANNA say. It was November of twenty five teams. That's on right, Julia and I I had a very very fortunate experience. You guys probably heard me talk about this personally privately but I had a couple of interesting seatmates. I went with my wife, and we sat with them with sting. Trudi styler and Steven Spielberg and Kate capshaw kind so that you a little bit. Yeah so it was definitely. I think it was a holiday time. A MEASURE Story absolutely. When I saw it in London. Was So amazing. The man who plays Hamilton for the original cast of the west end productions named dramatic, and he is the hottest Hamilton he's hot and tall, and he's been nominal, and I was sitting directly next to the Queen Queen Elizabeth Daughter. Who is dramatized in the crowd? Her name is an and it was her and her husband Tempe and two bodyguards and it was fucking crazy. CARREON amended. You sit next famous people at your production of Hamilton. Not at Hamilton though for sharing these stories, I did want sit right literally next to Meryl. Streep at a production of Gypsy and that was. Let me tell you even when Maryland, not on stage she commands the room, but anyway no, I you know what I want to see Hamilton in January two thousand. It was the week before I moved to Los Angeles for the ringer, and I have. It was Kinda like my last grand new. York thing that I did obviously getting to go to Broadway and Juliette, noted it is very much I musical about a New York as well and so i. have this really sentimental memory? Memory of it of just like of time in my life in New York, it's it's I. I have a very emotional relationship to the show, not just because I thought it was such an incredible piece of work, and so brilliantly conceived, and when did together a lot of things that I'm really interested in especially hip hop, and the American history, which both meaningful to me, but because when the show ended and just prepared to stand for the standing ovation, but right before we did sting, who sat next to my wife, turned to my wife with tears in his eyes and said that was extraordinary, wasn't it? And it it took all of the power inside of me to not look at him, and say yes. Sting it was I, did not directly address sting. Though I've always wanted to do that, but you know if you know from stink to the three of us on this podcast. It was I think if you were there for the moment, there was something really really powerful and meaningful. We've all lived in New York. We have all you know we've all thought about this show quite a bit. But, it has been a few years since it's been at the forefront. Obviously, it's travel to other cities like London where you saw it. It came to the pantages. I think here in Los Angeles. It has been It's been available to more people than it was in those those first few years, but even still it five national tours it did cover a lot of cities, and then it sat down in Chicago and San Francisco and then for hurricane. Maria fundraiser land reprises role in Puerto, Rico so they they did try to make it as accessible as possible, but within the realm of the business of theater, I think the vast majority of people in in America and wherever Disney pluses available are seeing it though for the first time as this movie the movie is directed like the stage, the stage show by Thomas, Kale, who some people may know from Fossey verdon great show last year, Twenty Nineteen and this is edited together from three different performances in June of twenty sixteen. So. Just generally off the top as a movie experience. How does this translate for you Juliette? Knowing your commitment to the show and the level of detail that you understand about it Tommy directed Greece live on Fox years ago and I. think that is definitely the best live musical of the era. like that was like a lot of dynamism in motion to that, so I had high expectations, going into it and I think One thing that's interesting to me is at every time you see a filmed recording of Les Miz, which is also famously on a rotating stage. They don't use rotating stage. They usually just line up and they have the eliminate that element of it because I think it's really hard to recreate what a Lazy Susan Style stage does in the room when you're looking at it on screen, and so as a result of maintaining that and trying to be as like match the fidelity of the musical, there were so many cuts that imb inbetween cameras, and in between performances. Presumably, there's one really obvious like Oh. We switched to difference performance with be digs beard, but that's neither here, nor there But I think the adjusting to the the. The camera standing in the. Audience member instead of one specific point of view, which is you know what it's like to be in in the audience was a real adjustment for me at first having just being so so like having romanticized my experiences of seeing the show in person for so many years that I found sort of jarring the beginning because I I wanted to be able to take in the whole on bill, but then I was just really like after a few minutes kind of like drop that and I think a lot of people and by a lot I mean me and. And Robert, Brown have discussed that like what by the time you get to my shot, which is like the fourth song one of the most famous? You're kind of acclimated to Hamilton. You understand what this is, and I felt that was true with the movie as well that after I kind of dropped my preconceived notions of what it's like to take it in as a stage spectacle by the time like at the end of my shot I was like more adjusted to it, Amanda. What did you make of it? This is a long long film in a long production. Yes i. have seen the production and I also understand how both plays and musicals work, so I should not have been surprised when I opened a apple TV, which downloaded for this purpose like many people in America apparently I'm sorry, not Apple TV. My Disney on my apple TV, no free ads, but I guess that was an ad I noticed that the runtime was two hours and forty minutes and I do understand that that's how plays work, and was also not the most excited about the two hours and forty minutes, but you know I soldier through I thought Juliette said it far better than I ever could that I did find kind of matching up the the obvious camera, style and actual. Actual stage production to be a little hard to wrap my head around at first and one thing that I took away from this was and this is pretty obvious, but Hamilton quite sprawling, not just because it's two hours and forty minutes, but because there are a lot of characters and a lot of and actors are playing different characters in different parts and so. You have to follow a lot and I. I often found that. The emphasis on who you're supposed to follow, and who you're supposed to be paying attention to which character for me wasn't always as clear. Because perhaps my brain was using a film language and the Hamilton. itself is still using theater language to communicate that and like you know maybe things like where you're standing on stage aren't quite as obvious, but I I just go back to the fact that I do think that it's extraordinary that so many people got to see this and we. We were lucky. Lucky enough to see it and Sega's but to see it unstaged, but it costs a tremendous amount of money. And logistically it was just very hard for as many people who are as interested in Hamilton to be able to see it, and now they can, and now we can have larger conversations that we're going to have about the way that it views history in and the way that it presents musical theater so I can't knock it I think it's wonderful that people are able to see this. Text to my mother, how Lucky! We are to be alive right now to watch Hamilton every single day. You. Know we've, we've talked a lot about you. Know the cost of movies at home over the last few months, and whether you know ten at whatever come to to p Vod, would you pay ninety nine ninety nine to watch it with your friends on opening night or something like that? You Could Watch Hamilton. Thirty consecutive days for five, ninety nine and inbetween. You can watch every Disney classic. All of the man delorean. Every star wars film ever made the entire MC you like. This is also not an ad for Disney plus but it is fascinating what this means for. Just the sort of consumer power that people have right now. I mean yeah. Ninety obviously is an ongoing commitment that you can make to the service and it, not everybody. Has that Kinda spare change to to spend on something like this? But if you care about Hamilton, it's pretty much worth it. I mean if you were to go to the state show. You were spending hundreds. Maybe even thousands of dollars just to get tickets if you could even get access to tickets, so it strikes me as an extraordinary deal and it for me, personally watching the production I I'm never really a huge fan of live musical stage production. I thought that this was certainly. The highest level in most invested most of the time when you see a production like this, there's basically one camera at the footlights, and there's one camera beyond the orchestra. And maybe there's a camera in the balcony. And that's IT and they're rarely moving, and so if you do get a chance to see productions like this and I haven't seen. Ms Actually so it's interesting. You bring that up Juliet, but for the most part when you see these there so static, and even though this was a little bit frantic and I agree with you. Amanda, you're wear. Your attention ought to be is not always clear, and you actually mentioned this to me off. Mike but Aaron Burr. Like I think in the show maybe doesn't get. The the sort of do that you when you when I walked out of Hamilton who is that? Who is Leslie, Odom that person is a genius, and I don't think I had the same feeling when I saw this, but nevertheless I did think it was effective, and for the most part conveyed the energy that I was looking for what what? Why were you watching Les Mis productions over the Years Juliette? Well, the tenth anniversary concerts really famous. It's like famous it's. Sort and they show it during every PBS fundraiser. They're all in a line, just singing one day more. It's really important. Yeah, yeah, it's really it's really famous. Musical theater done it a couple of times. There's also won the Nick Jonas it from like ten years ago, but like late for whatever reason Les Miz is staged for like fundraisers, and like commemoration, as much as it is for like the actual musical in that there's just become like the standard like this is how we do it when when it, there are cameras, which is interesting, but I think what's really interesting about Hamilton and greg refers named, is Andy Blank Bueller and he's. Also a longtime collaborator with windmill when Minimum Randa Tommy Kale. I think the the way that that Tommy and and Andy Blanca Mueller directed the show and choreographed the show. At its absolute best in songs like nonstop and in Yorktown and certainly unsatisfied is they create what I think feels like the theater version of a tracking shot, and the best case, best case possible where there's a through line of action and there's so much going on around. The thing I like most feels like onscreen. is a famous shot from true taxis season one where there's just like so much happening, but there's one clear point of view and I think that I missed that feeling in the movie where it's really clear. Clear that like though Angelica is leading US telling her perspective what you just saw in the previous two songs there's so much action happening and just the theatrical productions so well done through the lighting and choreography and direction. You are able to follow a narrative that she is spinning for you while they're so much going on stage, the entire Samba part of it and I think that for film. If you're not using a really attractive shot removing through a lot of space, but you're still confined to the stage you have to make. Decisions about what you're gonNA show what you're not gonNA show and I think that if you. If you have the experience of having seen it in person, it's just it's very different but they're so one of the reasons. I've always found Hamilton so like vivacious. Is it just operate on so many levels that so even if you're not having access to the full production and being able to watch this incredibly well orchestrated production, you're still. Still into the music. You're so understanding that you're still like an awe of Rene. Gold Barry's ability to rap into sing, and they're all like you know all the registers. She can hit without taking a breath and hearst her command on camera is as potent as it is on stage, and that's why I've always found musical just so so moving operates on so many levels and requires so many people to be doing their jobs well together. I, find that like just really beautiful so I think that there was like trade offs from the movie, but ultimately everyone being able to see it, and also being able to highlight some of these just absolutely stunning performances from nailed berry, and fell the Su- mostly odom to be digs. Just like it's so worth it I. Don't know I just like I love it and not sure if that's clear. It's it's. It's fairly clear, but I'm glad you're expressing yourself in that way because I don't know how to be conceived as you about it it's interesting to that on this appearing on Disney plus even though in some ways, this is a transgressive work of art. It's still a very friendly and beloved, and and you know it's. It's got a lot of child fans, you know. A lot of a lot of MOMS and DADS have been playing the soundtrack in the car to chill their children out over. Over the last five years and to avoid in our rating Disney, plus actually removed the two instances of fuck that are omitted. I think in Yorktown and in Washington on your side and You know that's just some. That's some Disney shut and action right there were you surprised to see that good? The or ten such bummer I love it, so Hercules Mel against y'All's it I missed that one. Yeah. Hercules mulligan actually popped to me when I was watching this to your point, if if Leslie Autumn. Fell into the background a little bit Hercules as a character I, he is somebody who had not thought about that much after seeing the show, and then realizing that you know that he plays a pretty big part in this story He's stationed nineteen on ABC so he's in the Disney family. Oh Wow. Okay. That's interesting to know Let's talk about some of the spiky aspects of of Hamilton five years later because I think we'd be remiss if we didn't address some of the ongoing criticism of the show. Much of which I think makes sense and his justified, and is evolving, frankly because the world is evolving as you pointed out Juliet, and the when we the time when we saw this. I think in the same way we've seen a lot of rhetoric about how during the Obama Administration, there was a sensation among ignorant people that we had solved a lot of the biggest problems that we had in our country and our world, and that Hamilton was some sort of representation of this you the struggle for Utopia, and obviously it is not that it's a single piece of art, and it can't be held accountable to fixing every problem that we have whether it's around race class the way that we view history, etc, but those criticisms have kind of come back to the four with the the show being seen by so many people. People over this weekend and I thought it was an interesting contrast. I'm not sure if you guys consumed so much of this, but the film criticism about this movie was almost uniformly positive. There is a profoundly scathing review by Armand White and the National Review that I think if people are looking for something that is deeply skeptical of the work. They can go check that out, but in your in your big time publications, the La Times in your times it's pretty much praises across the board, which is very similar to the kind of reception that the show got from theater critics when it when it began playing the public and then opened on Broadway. But the press that is a little bit more academic or a little bit, more analytical or a little bit more historically minded. Continues to have take issue with some of that Juliette as somebody who has been following the show so closely like. Did you have awareness early on of the the the sort of discord between the critical bodies about the show? Yeah, I mean it definitely was watch quieter faction, if people who are getting took issue with the historical I think I think the ladder criticism was that len is a bad rapper like that was I think very much. Much, a part of it in the heights came out in nine. I think it was and then again with Hamilton that was and I think that a lot. Of I think there are a lot more of the conversation. It's not dissimilar, but centered around some of his also bar some call borrowing some called tributes, co-opting of hip hop, and there and I think like some people may have found like the ten commandments being. A to the ten commandments exciting thrilling some found it offensive or an active appropriation or whatnot and then at the time there was definitely also. Historical or historians, just critiquing Hamilton for a really kind of there's there's a few lines at nod toward slavery, but there's only one line Thomas percent. One of the most important characters of the play, and because w digs is so great he has I think an outsized feeling enact to, and there's like this one. Throw a line. That's like almost played for laughs about Sally Hamming. In the first song back to and that it's just you know I think it's. It's a cavalier attitude about the role of slavery in the founding of the country It's undeniable. It's not a focus of the show. It's you know I through the character of John Laurens it's it's voice at several times now one that will never be free until we add slavery. That's the lyric which comes up a few times, but I think given the sort of really finally finally combed tapestry that that the musical is to leave slavery out or not not not. Leave it out, but not really grapple with the correct morals, and by today's standards, obviously like just disgusting acts of many of these people is really challenging. I personally find the most back saying performance to be George. Washington, because one last time is such, an incredible and beautiful song with I think like anyone who feels emotional about goodbyes or endings like it's sort of which I always do. It's an Christopher Jackson's voices like just so gorgeous in so stately but you know I think that like one of one of the most important and I think pointed. Conversation the last few weeks. It's just the rewriting or not rewriting, but sort of reframing of George, Washington, as like maybe military leader slash genius, but also vile slave owner, so that one is I don't know how to square. I don't I? Don't think you can, so it's difficult. Yeah, it's complicated. I mean I. I went back and started reading something. Some of which I was aware of when the when the show came out in some of which I did not have as much as I certainly had a lot of awareness as a culture journalist and somebody who's written about rap a lot about Lynn's relationship to wrap which I've always been of fascinated by especially because in interviews repeatedly. Repeatedly. He would always say that. He modeled the rapping style in some instances of Hamilton after Eminem, which and if you listen to Lynn Rab, you can certainly hear that the cadences that he uses the tonality that he uses and the be rabbit from eight mile style that he brings to those battle raps with Thomas Jefferson Eminem is a you know. He's a complicated figure in the history of rap. Rap He's by far the most successful white artist who has worked in the space obviously loves Biggie, and there's a lot of big in the show, and he loves mob deep, and there was talk about how l., cool J, famously, there was an I need love, couple it that originally appeared in the show, and then was removed because the record label asked him to remove it, and so you know I. I. Think Lynn comes by his admiration is left for the form, really honestly and also. Frankly there's as much sondheim tribute in the show as there is l.. O., cool, J, tribute, I mean this is these are the formats and people are always kind of paying homage, so that stuff never bothered me. how how deeply Lynch should reckon with slavery is probably probably not the best person to be. Sharing those criticisms but I did want to share at least a couple of things that lear Monteiro who has Britain fairly critically of the show in the past, wrote in two thousand sixteen Montereau with a cast, dominated by actors of color, the plays nonetheless yet another edition of the quote exclusive past with its focus on the deeds of quote, great white men in its silencing of the presence and contributions of people of Color in. In the Revolutionary Era Montero also wrote one of the first lines says that Hamilton. Quote got a lot farther by working a lot harder by being a lot smarter by being a self starter. It's this idea that we have in this country that the American dream is achievable if you work hard enough, and if you are pouring unsuccessful, it's because you didn't try, and therefore you deserve what you have or rather what you don't have. So. It's interesting that this would come up again because the sort of the myth of meritocracy is something that we're talking about all over again in twenty twenty, and is not going anywhere anytime soon and. I don't know. What do you think about the kind of the burden that we put on a cultural phenomenon like this to address the key and salient concerns of the day, versus what relationship people who just like this show have to it without being Without analyzing it at this level. It's a complicated question because you know even within that question, there are like eight different Hamilton's, and you know I think to an extent that happen was a a a work of art and history that historians an economics have been arguing over is it is valuable, and then that now other people have the access to actually see this for themselves and be able to participate in that conversation. You know so much of Hamilton. or one aspect of Hamilton is about. Who is who makes history and who tells history, and who who can be a part of the story you know there is ending which I hope we can talk more about because I find it quite powerful, but who gets to participate in that conversation, and how decide those things I? Think it's essential to keep having those and you may watch Hamilton, and and not agree with the way that lend Maranda has decided to revisit or Look at history, and that is completely valid so in that sense I think it's. It's really vital. It's what we want to to be able to do. You know there is like the Hamilton has become so popular that there are so many different aspects of it. You know we're living in a world where John Bolton decided to name his memoir. That thing after a song from Hamilton which is. It look how far we've traveled number one for, and also how quickly and so people are now bringing all of their associations and and their experiences. Into a thing that can't possibly live up to all of it, but. I think so much of the work. is about engaging history so yeah, let's let's keep doing that. Yeah! It's one of the unanswered questions I'm not I'm not sure if Lin Manuel, Miranda or Tommy Kale or anybody else. WHO's associate with? The show has been directly faced with a kind of a Nadi intellectual question, which is, is this show self conscious, or is it not? Is it self conscious specifically about the idea of what you're saying? Amanda that history is told by the victors, and his told by the most powerful, and so because of that, there seems to be some some awareness since the through line of Hamilton. Hamilton, but does it acknowledge that that is actually potentially a flaw of this show itself, or is the race conscious casting a comment on that? You know that like in many ways the best art the creators don't directly explain every single choice, but in the case of Hamilton it's an interesting one because it's been written about so much, and it's been discussed and analyzed so deeply, and so frequently that we would. You'd think we'd arrive at some sort of final conclusion about these things I don't know Julia. What do you think? I think you're watching a reasonable and minimum. Maranda taken the full body of his work. He's just. So endearingly Ernest And so I. Don't think like self. Awareness is the main. sort of a self reflexive feeling that comes from the show, but there are a couple of moments that I think just nod towards the. Continual re understanding and rewriting of history first of all the speech that he quotes or the George Washington farewell address that is I. Find So movingly written into one last time I think as part of that where he just you know, he acknowledges defects and whatnot say is not perfect again. That is the piece of this musical that I personally find the hardest to really like square up with like the like. What politics and and That way we should be talking about slavery, and the Founding Fathers Than I. Think to Amandus point at the end You know the last song is just is who lives who dies. Who Tells Her story? And Elisa is the character who close out the musical, and she is the whole time been the one who she in. Our most engaged with as characters with narrative and. so who who's telling the story and perspective and whatnot, so I think that choice definitely tips towards like I. Don't think they're I don't think the musical trying to posit like this is the final word on American history. This is not the final word on Alexander Hamilton. Hopefully it's not the final word on Elisa Hamilton who we don't know that much about And I. It's funny like a soon as they saw in one point. Last month that the statue of George Schuyler was toppled in new. York I was thinking about how that is really complex for the musical Hamilton, because the Schuyler are probably actually the least political characters in the musical, and in some ways George Schuyler is like one of the most vicious slave owners who hovers over the musical, and so that's a real and I think the charm of the Schuyler sisters like the musical background that those three. Of those three characters to the show, like just sort of really covers over a lot of the sins of the Schuyler family, and so that's a tricky one as well, but I guess to me. And say this with the luxury of like a white person being energized by a really diverse cast. Like I'm just like well. It's not just about the Schuyler. Quad Schuyler is much more about like you know who was fighting for independence, and what it meant to think for yourself in the eighteenth century, but I think having those opinions and viewing the musical through that prism is in many ways a inactive privilege, and so I I've been very aware of that in the last couple of weeks as I've just been thinking about the musical. I think in addition to. The pure joy that this show gives a lot of people it also does something that all great art should do which as it provokes demands that we think more seriously more intensely about what it is about and if we learned that it is flawed, that's great. That's an amazing opportunity. Though Montero, who quoted? Also noted in interviews during two thousand sixteen. They love that show. They they loved Hamilton as Broadway achievement, which is part of what's so fascinating about this as like a cultural document, it is in many ways undeniable, and that's like a good opportunity. I think for us to talk about what we love about it, but you know that's that's what I respond to is. It's Noddy, and it's maybe have some problems, but it's also powerful and fun. Yeah, I! I saw I saw a lot on twitter yesterday to like. I acknowledged these shortcomings, but this musical makes bought my head and makes me happy so complicated. That's Disney at its most rights like so hard to believe this was only recently became a Disney property, because that is so much the values of Disney. Yeah I was just going to say I I. There are some very catchy songs I've had the the George the third song my head since I re watched this, but just because I. think that's the only one that I could actually saying, but I do also when I re watched it I. I don't know that we've talked enough about this. As like a achievement of a musical and theater, and just like a a mind like to quote the musical, which apparently I can do a mind at work, and that is what stood out for me on. re-watch it. While to things like the current context and then just. The amount the ability to bring together all of these references and the from musical theater, and obviously history and hip hop and Shakespeare and put it all together and pull together all the performances that Julia which are extraordinary. It's like it. It's really an achievement, but it's also. It is very intellectual, even in its essence, and it's asking you to to think in ways that we don't normally I think like maybe ever, but certainly when you go to a musical theater, and maybe to engage with some of these questions, which I think is important. I agree and it it it distinguishes itself from a lot of other musical, some of which are great, but are not frequently intellectual exercises, and so I think that's part of the way that Broadway obviously evolving like if you look at what Oklahoma was last year, that's a that feels like a continuation of a lot of what Hamilton started to forge in that space to God willing. We'll be able to go back to the theater at some point soon along with movie theaters. Let's let's talk about personal favorite moments before we start to wrap up this conversation. Amanda I'm GonNa let you go first. What's your favorite part of Hamilton? I found the ending tremendously moving and I remember I found it very moving, the first time that I saw it when I got to see it in theater in the theater Possibly just because I'm i. like a really obvious statement, and it does bring a lot of the implied themes of. Of the show, and that intellectual curiosity chew the forefront, and I also think it's really stage really well, and then somehow I'd completely forgotten that that's how it ended, and I was thinking a lot about how like they don't really give women a lot to do in this which? You know they they do obviously have moments to shine, but she then be instantly reminded with this just extremely emotional, and like philosophical and historical moment is it? To be very powerful. Yet. Do you WanNa? Talk about the ending. To what did you make of it? I thought it was like fell pursued was who's just really excellent. I think that her performance is better onscreen than it is on stage not hurt I. Think for the audience. You can appreciate it better. It's I think she is solid across the board, but just for the audience I think that you're able to appreciate the nuance of what she does. Especially during songs like satisfied where she is like a big part of the action, but she is not the the main player I think that comes across a lot a lot clearer, and so it was really cool getting to see her performance I also like just an absolute huge loser with so much free time by myself where I just listened to a lot of the inner city. From the musical on Soundcloud, and so I like really really love the one where she is reading the letter from John Lawrence's father Ron John Lawrence dis I find that to be just an incredibly sad scene and It's rumored that Hamilton and Lawrence had a relationship like maybe in love and I think that comes across really beautifully in that scene, where it may not in other parts of the show, and not even sure it's intentional, but I've always found that. The way that he so galvanized by the death of Lawrence to be so moving in that it drives him until like just it drives Hamilton it to like do work, and I just fa so I really enjoyed that, but I think just the most like thrilling. Part of the show is the run from helpless dissatisfied to wait for it It's a one-two-three punch that like I i. don't know that any album and genre could ever top it is. Completely perfect and the fact that I could just watch. It anytime is overwhelmingly exciting. It's funny that you bring Philip. Assu I just watched this movie that was supposed to come out in July, but probably won't call the broken hearts, gallery and Philip. Assu shows up as a Sassy best friend. She's like a cool pal in the movie and we started to see a lot of these figures from the show. Start to crop up in our in our content, you know divide digs starting blind spotting a couple of years ago. Last time we talked it was about Mary poppins where Lin Manuel Miranda played a chimney sweep. We're seeing all. All these people might my favorite thing in the musical is a is a part of what you were just talking about Juliet and it stars somebody who I love. Renee Elise Gold's berry who we saw in waves last year I think it's just an amazing actor and incredible singer and satisfied is definitely my favorite song, and it's partially because it's so on the like everything else in this show and I think people take for granted how hard it is to do. A destiny's child does. That's the hardest music in the history of opulent music. And Lind wrote a destiny's child song, and then found somebody who could do it like. And she for nearly Goldberg so good and so talented and so amazing, and the point of view of that song I think is so powerful and so interesting and complex. Strike. As, a woman who has never been satisfied I'm sure I don't know what you mean. You forget yourself your life me. I'm never satisfy. I've never been. My Name's Anjelica Sky. Plays with time Richard Linklater. Movie plays with time. You know it goes. It takes us back and it sees that the story through another Lens, which is so much the what this show is about and tries to out, so I love that Song I. I love that performance so much and it. It really worked on me when I was watching the movie. Also satisfied is like just one of the reasons Hamilton has such broad appeal because. It's Jesse's child song. They look for some someone they were searching for someone who they felt could wrap it in like style, Nikki Manashe, and to me it is like the next version of on my own from Lehman, like it's the song like absolute longing and Pining, and and just so much emotion, and so it combines just like three incredible traditions in one amazing song, and then the staging is really amazing. Somehow the staging is also a little bit play folder. And I thought that I thought that satisfied was probably my favorite scene in the movie It's not I mean it's unfair. Advantage because song is so perfect, but I thought that this the the direction captured what makes aside such an important fulcrum for the musical well any closing thoughts on Hamilton guys. It's good. I'm giving Juliette the last word. One thing I wanted to point out to listeners interested in a sort of a double feature is the national. Theatre in London just put on a production. Earlier this year of Lorraine, hands, Berries Leblanc, which is Lori, hence berry who wrote arisen in the Sun. Black female playwright who died tragically in her thirties, and we didn't get a chance to see all the work that she was going to make, but this was her last play unfinished set in a fictional African country, and in the same way that Hamilton works as a fascinating document of stagecraft. This show is very much about some of the same themes of colonialism and power and. And it's just an incredible incredible show studied hands, housing college and I was always blown away by her writing and her percentet`y, and you can just watch it for free on Youtube. You don't even need a Disney plus subscription to check out a Leblanc so check that out. If you're interested, duet and Amanda Thank you very much for doing this today later this week. Amanda is going to be back. We have like a handful of actual real movies to talk about Amanda are. You excited about that. Yes, I am so there's three of them. We'll talk about him over the course of the next two or three episodes, but on Hulu. We Palm Springs delightful. Sundance hit starring Andie Sandberg on Apple TV plus we're going to welcome in Kevin Clark to talk to us about the long delayed. World War. Two Naval Thriller Greyhound. Tom Hanks. And on Netflix and adaptation of the graphic novel, the old guard which stars Charlie's staring and Kiki Lane and was directed by the great, Gina Prince, by would who's best known for love and basketball, and beyond the lights I talked to Gina too, so that'll be on next the next Friday's episode. And yeah, it's nice to have some some some damn movies to talk about so please stick around at the big picture and now stick around for a word from an exciting new show on the ringer podcast network. I'm so excited to introduce the Bakari Sellers podcast in partnership with the Ringer. We're tackling the issues of the day through interviews with high profile guest in conversations with a rotating panel of the country's best and leading thinkers influencers in writers. You know I'm not only an attorney and a former elected officials. Sometimes you see me on CNN I'm a new author of New York Times bestselling book, my vanishing country, but. But now we're introducing the Bakari Sellers podcasting. We're GONNA cover everything from the twenty twenty election to sports and culture to the larger movement for racial equality in the United States. We're going to have some of your favorite quarterback. Some of your favorite politicians, some of your favorite athletes writers, singers actors actresses the Bakari. Sellers podcast debut on Monday, June twenty ninth listened Freon, spotify or wherever you get your podcast.

Philip Hamilton Hamilton Academy Oscars Hamilton Juliet Lipman Disney Hamilton Amanda New York America Juliette United States Miranda London York Bernard Hermann John Apple exander Hamilton spotify
Road Games (1981) | Richard Franklin

Around the World in 80s Movies

17:06 min | 2 years ago

Road Games (1981) | Richard Franklin

"The. Hi, welcome to around the world in eighties movies, mighty Vince, Leo. I'm the author of the film review site, quip, stir dot net. I check out over four thousand of my written reviews, can read their anytime, quick stir dot net is where to go key, w IP as T, R dot net. Why they're doing courage? You to check out my other podcast called the quitter film review podcast. I look at new movies at are out in theaters just check out that site for the link, quips, stir dot net. I just finished a trilogy of films, the Mad Max films of the nineteen eighty though technically started in nineteen seventy nine I'm going to be shifting into another three part series, not necessarily tied together as much as the Mad Max films. But this three part series will be looking at I call it the highway to hell. And it's very fitting that highway to hell a song that is done by an Australian rock band. Of course, ACDC we discovered three Australian films in the Mad Max series, and we're gonna continue on with an Australian film called. Rogaine 's which is eight thriller set. Mostly on the road in Australia. So the next three films will be thrillers set on the road, primarily as part of the main action, not necessarily from Australia. But this first Bill is in it is called road games. It's from nineteen Eighty-one the title of the film is either one word or two originally intended to be one word as road games. In fact, if you look at the title of this film, while you're watching the movie it's actually written that way, however, most of the marketing since, especially in the United States and on many versions of the video, the DVD year has released will have as two words. It's a film from nineteen Eighty-one. It's directed by Richard Franklin, the screenplay by Everett Dhiraj and the two main stars of the film are St. Keach, and Jamie Lee Curtis. Not Australian actors for reasons I will get into in just a moment. It's PG rated film that PG rating is very, very generous. By today's standards, it does have violence and sexuality in the film. It definitely would be a strong PG thirteen today. Some people might even read it as are the run time is an hour and forty one minutes. Now, the director Richard Franklin. He was a self-declared pupil of Alfred Hitchcock really studied with Alfred Hitchcock on how to make films, and here he's working closely with a screenwriter named ever Roach. This happens to be their second collaboration together, they wrote the cult thriller, which was also Hitchcock in its own way called Patrick that came out in nineteen seventy eight. They wanted to get together and create another film project now at the time to Roach had been writing for a TV series in Australia called the truck keys and had recently typed up a script called road games for that TV show the TV show being about a small community of people who spend a lot of their lives on the highways in Australia, making them sort of community among themselves. Franklin had the idea of taking road gains and making it into a move. Movie of some sort, they had originally envisioned, this idea of human meat within a truck trailer hauling pork. But there were some human bodies on board. It was partially no Majd. He Sweeney Todd which was a musical that had just been produced at the time by Richard Franklin's, personal friends, Stephen Sondheim, eventually Franklin ended up having this idea that the killer would not be the truck driver himself, but the driver would be the witness to a series of murders committed by someone out there in the vein of Alfred Hitchcock's rear window, Hitchcock had just recently passed away from the time that they were concocting descript. So Franklin was very much in the mood to pay more to this director, that had meant so much to him. So he had the idea to combine these two stories except this one is in set in one room like rear window had been, but it would be out on the road within the cab of a semi. And so the ended up building up the story from there, and that gave it the Hitchcock in vibe of old Hollywood tropes with. Hitchcock's patent black comedy spirit to make this film based more on suspense, and air of glamour instead of the gore and cheap shock. That was very much prevalent at the time among horror thrillers now along for the Hitchcock and ride is Jamie. Lee Curtis who plays Pamela, Jamie Lee. Curtis happens to be the real life, daughter of genitally who appeared in Hitchcock's, psycho. Most famously. Of course, this was definitely of appeal to Franklin, but she's not the main star, she's only in the film, maybe about a quarter of it. The real star is Stacy Keach who plays this independent truck driver kind of an intellectual he says he's he he might drive a truck, but he's not a truck driver. He sees himself as more than that he travels around with his pet dingo, or at least he calls it a dingo named Boswell and in this adventure, he tries to get to the bottom of the story that might connect the series of killings that hears about other radio that have surfaced around Australia to this. Seriously driver of this creepy looking van, that's on the road, at the same time that he is travelling in Quinta tempts to deliver this rig full of pork to Perth, which is undergoing this meat shortage at the time because the butchers have gone out on strike, the butcher's union. So as the trucker moves toward his destination, he gets into greater danger including stirring, up, locals into thinking the serial killer that they've been hearing about on the radio might be quit himself and Jamie Lee Curtis ends up hitchhiker, along the way he calls her hitch. That's another, of course Omar's to Hitchcock. Her name is Pamela. And she is on the road for a portion of this trip. Now, the story is very simplistic, in many ways. It's a little bit nonsensical. If you wanna start picking it apart, the semi here and the van always seemed to run into each other everywhere, they go, especially through the dunes of Western Australia, including null, Arbor, plain, new clo-, which is we learn Nola, Arbor notaries, it's called that because of its distinct lack of trees, the result of. Of rabbit plague that ate, all the vegetation in the area, especially of Yuka with thrillers, such as this suspension of disbelief is a must. But if you're going to maintain it throughout, it's a pretty nifty, B-movie movie that offers a good deal of fun of mystery fairly modest fashion. Although it clearly lifts from Hitchcock here. There's even a trademark Hitchcock. Cameo in this film, somebody's looking through a series of magazines and fines. Alfred Hitchcock mystery magazine among them road games. I think makes on its own terms as something that is wholly different than anything that you may have seen before. It's kind of an odd little thriller, lackadaisical, and its broach, even though it is predictable, and where ultimately does end up how it gets. There is still refreshingly off the beaten path now as with we're window. We get lightly romantic flair to this film. It's mixed with paranoia, mostly presumptive that there is this murderer on the loose out there, and like Jimmy Stewart's character in rear window, Pat quit baked his own names up for the p. On the road with them. You have any balls who has this station wagon that's filled with sports balls of many variety. Fred and Frieda, frugal captain, careful sneezy writer and the suspected killer, he has dubbed Smith or Jones, because quit saw him checking into this motel likely using pseudonym with a prostitute at the beginning of the film that he assumes became a victim as with grace, Kelly's character, Pamela, the Jamie Lee Curtis character ends up getting involved in the dangerous, sleuthing, prompting much of the leader action, the Hitchcock, influence can also be felt in the score from Brian May, who copied Bernard Hermann, most notably in the first two Mad Max films. He was intentionally told to do so and guest to use his Herman esque flair here. Of course, Bernard Hermann being a longtime collaborator without Hitchcock, and some of his best films, although rear window was not among them, nevertheless synonymous with Hitchcock now teams hard to believe given the modest production values of road games that at one point eight. Million dollars in its budget. This was the most expensive Australian film production in history at the time. It was made the American distributors who committed nearly a third of the money into this production insisted on a lead actor that would appeal to North American audiences at the time. There really weren't any Australian actors that were working specifically in the industry that they thought could have international appeal like that Mel Gibson was still not a huge star internationally, the road warrior was yet to be released at the time they were making this film Franklin's initial idealist to pursue Sean Connery had actually written the script with Sean Connery in mind in the role of Pat quid, that he would star Connery has been in a Hitchcock film before called Marnie as well. However, they were unsuccessful in getting John Conran board, the price tag that he asked made him far out of reach. In fact, it was higher than the entire budget of the film. So that was a no go. So the ended up having to settle for the less expensive. American actor Stacy Keach Keach is a fine actor in terrific in the role, but he's not really a box office draw that they were hoping to rain in the film was kinda bust when earn a paltry half million dollars at the box office despite every effort to appeal to those American audiences that the distributor wanted at the time in addition to Keach they knew that he was not going to haul in major dollars. So the, the intended lead actress, that they wanted to play hitch, or Pamela. Her name was Lisa peers. He was cast in that role but ended up getting replaced by another American actor. This one known to horror suspense fans that my enjoy film lake road games, Jamie Lee Curtis. Curtis was picked as the American replacement due to Franklin's friendship with John carpenter from their time studying film at USC initially Franklin was offered the possibility of casting Jodie, Foster brick shields, who were much more box office appeal. But both of them were still teenagers at the time and Franklin felt that they were a little too young, maybe a lot too. Young for the role that he had intended with twenty one year old Jamie Lee Curtis. Franklin saw the possibility of a sort of Bogart, call matchup with Keach that would work wealth of comedy, and a tinge of the sexy banter that they'd written in while this move was made to help pave the inroads distribution wise into the United States. It did cause some issues with one of Australia's actors unions who opposed this, which from an Australian actress to an American actress some in the Australian film industry at the time felt that they were exploiting local resources in order to cater to markets outside of the country. They call this obligation and a lot of movies at the time we're built on this comedies or horror films and whatnot that really took advantage of the stray in vibe, but we're primarily made to kind of market into other markets around the world. Ironically, the film would and being a bust in America as they had intended. But it still proved successful industry. And then the less the spite all of these controversial efforts that almost derailed the film altogether for not casting Australian leads Franklin with end up blaming the poor marketing for the film in the United States, which virtually ignore the involvement of the American actors and incorrectly promoted it as a run of the mill slasher horrify instead of the more light-heartedly, old fashioned suspense vehicle that he intended criticism casting did not dissuade, American audiences from assuming that it was another slasher horror film, because this was what she was primarily known for at this early stage of her career her filmography only contained scream, Queen defining roles in Halloween, the fog, prom night and territory that was her resume at the time in movies. Unlike most of the American slasher films of the time no killing is actually shown on the screen. Hence the PG rating for road games. Although, as I mentioned, very generous, given the subject matter, you have strangling in this film, and there's something shown in the final. Scene that is particularly Grissom, nevertheless, the did catch the eye of someone at Paramount Pictures who were looking for someone to direct the long coming sequel to a classic film psycho to this did give him a little bit of a platform. Richard Franklin would end up going to direct psycho sequel Franklin would also ended up having to sacrifice his intended ambitious ending for road games. One that involves chase through the streets of Perth with Pat quit running into most of the recruiting road characters due to running over schedule, though, and over budget on the film, it was nixed and that leaves the patchwork ending, perhaps one of the weaker elements of the film. Some people still enjoy road games for the journey though. Even if they aren't as keen on the destination, there's a shot in the film someone eating a sandwich continue meat from the butcher, shop, that might have questionable sourcing. Let's say that was going to be Franklin's intended revise ending. And then the American distributor, said that, that wasn't good enough. He said that shocking endings were all the rage at the time. So franklin. Ended up reluctantly adding a scene in which a key body part is discovered in a very startling way. And Franklin has gone on to say he really does not like that particular inning. But his hand was forced here. Now road games has film to. It's not essential viewing really. But I do think if you love Alfred Hitchcock or quirky Australian films or you're just a big fan of Stacy Keach and Jamie Lee Curtis. This is a pretty fun rehash of this classic film, known as rear window Quinton, Tarantino, though, has gone up to cite it as one of his all time, favorite Australian films unsung film, and by one of his favorite. Australian directors Richard Franklin. He claims that it's one of the great works by a screenwriter not a lot of people have given a lot of credit to, but tarintino loves him ever to Roach. He was an American who went onto right films in Australia, and that made Tarantino, appreciate so called us blow tation cinema. And he loves road games among a list of classics. He likes from those exploitation films. Of the time, of course, Tarantino loves exploitation, films of the seventies and eighties. Although most people don't know, road games today, but it would still further influence other filmmakers, Greg MacLean, who says he was inspired by the menace on the highway premise throughout the Australian outback to make his two thousand five hor thriller called wolf creek. So if you like wolf creek, you might want to give this one shot as its inspiration. Now, we're games may not really hold up to scrutiny. If you wanna pick apart the plot, especially if you think back to a lot of strange events, when it's all through by the time you get to that point, you'll most likely have gotten enough mileage out of it as an entertainment to make this a worthwhile ride in the end, I would not say this is exactly as great as outfit Hitchcock. But it's also not a bad attempt to emulate his style one of the better Hitchcock in films of the nineteen eighties. And one, I will recommend to a lot of people who like Hitchcock, like myself. He's my favorite director. So this is a movie that I've seen a few times. Already so for all that, I will give it three stars out of four three stars on my scale means I do recommend it for people who, like this kind of movie obviously, I've just aimed all of the audiences that I think would get a kick out of this. So if you happen to have a couple of hours to kill and you wanna nice little thriller diversion with a lot of good black humor. I definitely recommend giving road gains try, but I would only recommend it after you've seen the great Hitchcock film, called rear window from nineteen fifty four and you'll definitely appreciate what Franklin is trying to do here with that same type premise road games as I mentioned, three stars out of four. Thanks, everyone for listening. I hope that you enjoy the review grow games. If you like to hear any of my other podcast episodes, doing, courage, uniquely that subscribe button, and you continue to get them as they come out. I have about ninety film, reviews ready in the nineteen eighties type of this reporting. So I want you to check out my back catalogue. I do consider them somewhat evergreen, because it is a retrospective look, so any one of those films that you see in the past doing her take. Look at as well as far as going to be covering next week for my highway to hell trilogy here, I'm gonna go to nineteen eighty six or a film, that was trashed absolutely trashed by critics at the time of its release. But his gained a cult following since and probably a very strong cult following since from nineteen eighty six it is a film, starring Rutger Hauer and c Thomas Howell called the hitter movie that I have struggled with so much over the years. But I've come to a certain piece of it, and I do look forward to revisiting that film next week. The hitter from nineteen eighty six on the next episode of around the world, eighties movies, everyone for joining me on this trip around the world in Amy's.

Alfred Hitchcock Richard Franklin Jamie Lee Curtis Stacy Keach Keach Australia Hitchcock Pamela director Roach Pat quid United States Bernard Hermann Rogaine Perth Lee Curtis St. Keach Vince Jamie Lee John Conran
(Rebroadcast) Citizen Kane (1941) w/ special guest Ted Walch

Classic Movie Musts

1:31:52 hr | 10 months ago

(Rebroadcast) Citizen Kane (1941) w/ special guest Ted Walch

"I'm max parrilla and this is classic movie musts where every week we break down a classic movie while looking to provide artistic insight and historical context at the very least. We'll talk about what makes these movies classics. Classic movie must releases every friday. Ready to complement your weekend movie. Viewing plans classic movie. Musk's is supported by listeners. Like you if you want to help support the show. I thank you so much and second head on. Over to patriotdepot dot com slash classic movie musts every patriots subscriber. Cool perks and ways to engage with the show including the opportunity to vote every month on a movie. They'd like to hear discussed on the show. All it takes is one dollar per month. A huge thank you to our current patriots subscribers. You make this show possible. You can read about our support. Here's and the rewards over at patriotair dot com slash classic movie musts. Thank you for joining me this week. As we discussed the orson welles masterpiece citizen kane in this episode during our feature presentation. We welcome back. Ted walsh to discuss the myriad things citizen kane does so well but first let's get into this week's opening credits are film. This week is citizen kane which was directed by or wells and was released in nineteen forty one citizen kane stars orson welles and features just cotton dorothy common gore agnes moorehead and everett sloane for your streaming ease. Citizen kane is available for rental on itunes. Youtube and google play in a mansion called xanadu vast palatial estate in florida. The elderly charles foster kane played by. Orson welles is on his deathbed holding a snow globe. He utters a word rosebud and then dies the globe slips from his hand and smashes on the floor a newsreel obituary tells the life story of cain an enormously. Wealthy newspaper publisher. Kane's death become sensational news around the world and the newsreels producer tasks reporter jerry thompson with discovering the meaning of rosebud thompson sets out to interview canes friends and associates. He tries to approach susan. Alexander kane played by dorothy common gore now an alcoholic who runs her own nightclub but she refuses to talk to him. Thompson goes to the private archive of the late banker. Walter parks thatcher played by george and through thatcher's written memoirs thompson learns that kane's childhood began in poverty in colorado in eighteen. Seventy one after a silver mine is discovered. On her property. Canes mother mary kane played by agnes moorehead sends charles away to live with thatcher. So it he would be properly educated. It's also clear that cane's mother wants to get charles away from his father who has violent tendencies while thatcher. Charles parents discuss arrangements inside. The young charles plays happily with a sled in the snow outside his parent's boardinghouse and protests being sent to live with thatcher furious at the prospect of exile from his own family to live with a man he does not know the boy strikes with his sled and attempts to run away years later after gaining full control over his trust fund at the age of twenty five. Cain enters the newspaper business and embarks on a career of yellow journalism. He takes control of the new york enquirer and starts publishing scandalous articles that attack thatcher's business interests after the stock market crash in nineteen twenty. Nine kane is forced to sell controlling interest of his newspaper. Empire back to thatcher back in the present thompson interviews. Kane's personal business manager. Mr bernstein played by everett sloane bernstein recalls how cain hired the best journalists available to build the enquirer's circulation. Cain rose to power by successfully manipulating public opinion regarding the spanish american war by marrying emily norton the needs of the president of the united states. Thompson interviews. Kane's strange best friend. Jedidiah leland played by joseph cotten in a retirement home leland. Recalls how canes marriage to emily disintegrates more and more over the years and that he began an affair with amateur singer susan alexander while he is running for governor of new york both his wife and his political opponent discover the affair and the public scandal ends his pulled out colt career. Leland asked to be transferred to a newspaper in chicago kane. Mary susan and forces her into a humiliating operatic career for which he has neither the talented nor the ambition. Even building large opera house for her leland begins to write a negative review of susan's opera. Debut cain fires him but finishes the negative review and prince it. Back in the present. Susan now consent to an interview with thomson and recalls failed opera career. Cain finally allows her to abandon her singing career after she attempts suicide and after years spent dominated by kane and living in isolation xanadu. Susan leaves kane. Kane's butler raymond recounted. After susan leaves him. Cain begins violently destroying the contents of her bedroom. He suddenly calms down when he sees a snow globe and says rosebud thompson concludes that he is unable to solve the mystery. And that the meaning of kane's left word will forever remain an enigma. back xanadu. canes belongings are being catalogued or discarded by the staff. They find the sled on which the eight year old. Cain was playing on the day that he was taken from his home in colorado deeming. At junk they throw it into the furnace as the sled burns the camera reveals trade name ignored by the staff rosebud. Citizen kane had a budget of eight hundred and forty thousand dollars and a box office hall ultimately of one point six million but that was only after a rerelease years later adjusted for inflation. It's a budget fourteen million dollars in a box office hall of around twenty seven million citizen kane received nine oscar. Nominations winning only one. It won the academy award. For best original screenplay share between herman make wits and orson welles it was also nominated for best sound recording best music best film editing best cinematography best art direction. Best actor for orson welles. Best director for orson welles and best picture and of course citizen kane is currently ranked number one on. Afi's one hundred greatest movies of all time. Now let's talk rosebud because it's time for our feature presentation joining us for today's feature. Presentation is ted walsh. You know him from two previous episode one on the kid one on casa blanca. Two of my favorite episodes ted. Welcome back to the show. It's an honor. It's great to be back next. This is this is the big one. We're talking citizen kane today. And i feel like you're the only person who could really sit opposite me here to break it all down. Thank you for that. Although i approach it with humility that every time i get near this movie. I'm ashamed that. I can't do better by I'll give it my best shot though. I appreciate that humility. Because i you know. We're this'll be episode. Forty three forty four classic movie musts. And i feel like it's taken me. Forty some odd episodes to build up the courage to kind of take on this movie as you say not because this movie is perfect by any means will talk about the aura that surrounds this movie but just because of the expectations that kind of come along with it and and i'm glad i'm glad to have you as my company and those expectations are a intimidating. When i teach to high school kids and i understand you. Just talk. This week i did. I just go to eighty five kids. Okay and i ha- i feel compelled to announce at the beginning. This movie is considered to be the greatest movie of all time. It's in a fight with vertigo. Which we're going to get to later in the course yada yada yada and all of them after it's over go well. How is that the greatest movie of all time. Now i liked it or i didn't like but how is it the greatest movie and then we try to we try to get inside it and talk about how it came to be known that way. Is it the greatest movie of all time. That's an absurd statement. Any movie yeah. We shouldn't be talking that way. No and i think if we can just say citizen kane is just another movie. Let's talk about it that way. I feel that after the conversation. Its greatness will emerge on. Its own very well put. And i'm glad you kind of start that way off the bat. Now this was unplanned but right before we started recording. You hit me with kind of a metaphor for this movie. And i had planned. Hit you with a metaphor. yours is maybe perhaps a little bit more apropos. I'm gonna start with mine. You're going to then share yours. I think of this movie as a labyrinth with no center. I think that's perfect. I think that is a beautiful way to describe this movie. I look on his as a jigsaw puzzle with some missing pieces. Okay i like it. I think we've said the same essentially saying the same thing. Right exactly excellent. So we're on the same page. Yes we are. We can end the episode. Now that's it done. And i want to add one thing to this that i hope can over not override. But be in. Everybody's mind as we about this movie. And that is to remember that. Orson welles came to this movie at age. Twenty four having never made a movie a having worked extensively in theatre be and extensively in radio drama. See those two skills the skills that he learned in theater and in radio really make this film much more than the visual masterpiece that it always gets talked about being One experiment i do with an audience is you can understand ninety five percent of citizen kane the story with your eyes shut and the only thing you're not going to understand with your eyes shut is the secret of rosebud. Everything else is handed to you on a silver platter. Just like in radio drama. So i just want us to keep that in mind as we talk yes. I'm glad you said that. The back. Because i think as episodes go we will certainly be turning to the sound of music. The whole sound design landscape quite a bit in this movie and send you talked about rosebud right off the bat. I wanted to bring that up as i'm sure it will also come up. I'm sure everything we talk about. Today's going to resurface throughout the episode. So you know. Are we allowed to do. We have to do a spoiler alert about rose butter. We're gonna talk about it now. It will have already been spoiled in our opening credits you. Lucy said to charlie brown and the famous four strip peanuts episode. She just walked up to a rosebud. Sled i mean and we all know that person exactly. So you're fully expected to know not to have seen the movie so rosebud in my labyrinth metaphor. i think it's kind of beautifully frustrating throughout this movie which is right off the bat. We're we're stimulated with this mystery. What is rosebud. and it's it's ultimately. What makes this movie so great watching it and what kind of stimulate the conversation around it as you already alluded to with your own students because throughout this movie you can't help but ask what is rosebud or who is rosebud who is charles foster kane and then because of the place that this movie holds in the film. Canon of history is this. The greatest movie of all time is just an extremely important movie. And what makes it an import such an important movie. Or what makes it the greatest movie of all time if he's already said we don't particularly believe that it can be the greatest. That's that's not really the terminology. One should apply to art but it's that aura of mystery and frustration and ultimately given the fact that we find out that rosebud is the sled at the end. We hope that there is equally a simple answer to who is charles foster kane. Yes this is the greatest movie of all time. And it is because orson welles a complete genius right well all right. And here's here's the beauty from me. They they seduce you at the very big he seduces you at the very beginning of the movie thinking that if we can find out the answer to rosebud we will have solved the mystery but as you say this is a labyrinth with no center because even when we do find out the answer to rosebud it does not explain everything. It only explains something. Maybe it explains nothing. It's just there so we have been taken in a sense on a ride but it's been a fascinating ride to me the most valuable lesson that this film offers to any of us is that we can never really know each other. We can never really know about another human being. We can never really understand who you are. You will always be a mystery to end to yourself. that's to me. Is the beauty of this movie i. We're waxing poetic here. Sorry no it's it's great. I like it. I mean it was very well. It was very well put as you say from the very beginning we are taking on this ride of what is rosebud and i would say. And i'm sure you'd probably agree with me that it starts even before that and so let's begin at the beginning all right very good place to start and thanks sorry but to me you know how by the way what you just said pertains to citizen kane. Who was the editor robert wise direct. There you go onto music okay. Sorry it's all working on a subliminal level here perhaps. it's all very freudian. Orson welles describes his cane as dollar book. Freud and he said that's how i understand freud and so it comes through something i'm sure we'll also come back although i detest conversations about like. Oh it's all very freudian. It makes things credible algae inaccessible and we want this movie to be accessible. So we're going to begin at the beginning. We're going to begin at the beginning. I love the opening sequence. It's often talked about but the fact that the film opens with this. No trespassing sign. And then what do we then. Proceeds to climb over the sign. It sets up the audience immediately from the beginning to be detective like right. We climb one fence than we climb another. Then we climb a gate. Then we're fixated on a window which is in the upper right hand corner of the frame which we can't take our eyes off of and then because we're burglars and trespassers. We go through the window and as far as we can tell we are the only ones who hear rosebud now the butler at the end claims he heard it but we didn't see him there right that that to me is one of the great. And 'nigma is in this film. I feel that it's purposefully. Enigmatic unexplained but there you go so i totally agree and even before we know before we have a sense. That rosebud may hold a secret to this. You know moustachioed face that we don't yet know even before that as you say we've climb these fences and then we proceed through the grounds of xanadu which we don't quite yet not be xanadu right and we see monkeys. We see tropical settings we see venetian boats. Were already trying to put together. The mystery of what this place could be who could possibly own it. How does this all make sense. And then rosebud is just the final element that says okay. This is what this is the key to a potentially unlocking all of this right. And that's the journey. We're going to go on but it's it's a brilliant to get you already in the mindset of the detective and also there's a little sleight of hand going on a way because a couple of my students got confused and i'm always interested because they are good audience and that is we think may be the snow globe is rosebud um but we find out later that the snow globe is not rosebud but evokes rosebud. I also also like juno. I don't mean to put you on the spot. Do you know where after we see the snow globe that opening scene we next see the snow globe in the chronology of the storytelling so to my knowledge and the snow globe was something i was planning on bringing up on more than one occasion but is on the vanity desk of susan alexander. That's why you were a good student and that. Was he doing that night. So all right. Let's fast forward. This is not a particularly chronological film. So i feel no pressure to approach it chronologically here here so the snow globe. Let's get into it right away right. The very night that he meets susan alexander and in his peripheral vision and in ours sees the snow globe on her vanity. Table is the night that he is going to a warehouse where all the belongings from his mother's boardinghouse the belongings that he associates with his youth are stored. He's there to check them out so somehow in his mind that night. If only subconsciously that snow globe intersects with rosebud because rosebud had to be on his mind. The night he was going to look for the things in his mother's warehouse and their susan. So that wonderful intersection of susan snow globe rosebud and all that that entails so that when he picks it up at the end of the movie out of her childlike room room. We start to go particularly the second time we through the movie. We have that. Aha moment. And i think all great films need to be seen more than once. This one needs to be seen many many times. For all those jigsaw pieces to start to fit together or not. I agree one hundred percent. This is very much a movie that it begs to be re watched. It's almost essential to be rewatch because there are so many layers. Incongruency cheese clues. I mean we talk about this snow globe on her desk in her apartment. It's not that there's a close up now of it by any means. It's quite easy and quite understandable that you would go potentially many viewings of this movie without ever noticing whatsoever because while he while charles foster kane sees it he draws particular attention to it. We don't even know if he really consciously sees it to the or if it's just a sub-conscious presence and as you say we know his mindset of the moment is one of memory and there's no question that this snow globe is very much associated with his memory of his childhood and the traumatic breaking up his relationship with his mother being taken away by thatcher feeling abandoned by his mother which is clearly. if there's one takeaway in this movie it is that is the largest driving influence on his personality. Is his relationship with his mother even in that scene as you say he was planning on going through his mother's belongings he associate. He begins to associate susan alexander with his mother. We have the snow globe. It reminds him of his childhood home. She has several lines to the effect of you know how mothers are yes. It's understandable the attachment. He then develops with her. And then the desire to control that relationship in a way that he wasn't able to control his relationship with his mother. And i also like to to say that his second mother after he leaves his mother is a bank one hundred percent bank and that's not much of a mother. No no it is not an a very reliable bank at that as he says exactly. But i i think the the snow globe is. It's it's kind of this ingrained importance. That i think even extends beyond the object itself right. I mean without going into the freudian aspects of it but the connections between things and being able to evoke memories. Obviously things themselves are incredibly important in this movie. We we hope. By in interrogating various people we will get the answer to who charles foster kane is but really we. We need to look more to his possessions. Things to understand who this man is and and the thing that he holds onto memory and i could actually suggests that it is a memory that is largely reconstructed every time he thinks about it as we know that memory works but in any event the one thing that he holds onto is the least impressive piece of stuff a little wooden sled in the midst of all of those statues art and you name it that that that that wonderful shot at the end of the movie. It looks like a city of stuff. Yeah it's just a sled and what happens to the sled. It goes up in smoke up there. You go anyway it before for long before it gets put up in smoke. It is quite aptly buried in snow. Yes frozen preserved as though in a snow globe for the moment to kind of come back to the surface put. And it's that connection between you know. I think props meson san it all works together with his film on a level so deeply that. I wonder if you would agree with me. That we go and meet susan alexander to hear her tale of charles foster kane twice. We go there. The beginning won't talk. He won't talk. We then return both times of which we go. We have this beautiful shot of the rancho and then ascend through and then through the skylight. We're doing a second story job here. We've gone we've fence. We've gone through a window now. We're doing a second story job but we descend through the skylight much. Like charles foster kane looks into this snow globe at his own memories exactly in hope of finding the memory that will unlock this whole jigsaw puzzle. There's another reason to have susan at the beginning of the movie only to not use her and then have her later almost book ending the memories that that has to tell us something about the way. This journey is being undertaken. Indeed i think that it brings up the very structure of the film. Which is this. This movie is approached in many ways like a classical hollywood bio pic. You know who is charles foster kane. Let's tell the life story of this great man and and we're forest particularly an audience today. Who has many of whom have never experienced an old fashioned newsreel. The kind that. I grew up with thirteen minutes of a newsreel about somebody. You don't know anything about right. And and the newsreel is designed purposely to suggest that you do know something about him it actually give gives you not all that much information the most important piece of information that he gives you is how the fortune came to be in defaulting border. But it really just kind of goes past you. You could even miss it yeah. It's it's stunning. That it trust you as an audience to go almost twenty minutes into the film given the opening shot and then the newsreel before we get down to business right but somehow it holds our attention and notice. The sound design that the newsreel is. The sound is jacked up for the news newsreel. So yeah oh yeah so if you go have this sort of lulling opening and then bam news. When that news on the march comes up thank you. It's so it's it's shocking your. I'm like the cockatoo. Much later in the film is also an excellent point. Seven by students said in case you fell asleep. I like that. If you gotta wake up. I fell asleep in this movie. Anyway let judgment judgment you know. Maybe it was a long day or early in the morning. Exactly so we come in with this bio pic approach the news on the march. Kind of help. Set that up. This is a great figure. He lived a long storied life. And we need to help. We want to understand more about who he is. Because unlike the movies in the movie assumes we understand who he is because it opens with xanadu landlord. Not even by name already assumes you know what xanadu is and who his landlord landlord is. Let's get into it now. We are all the more peaked of like all right. Well let's i need to know more and that's the story. This movie is going to take you on a bio-pic it's not unheard of to say. Well all right. Let's go to the people that this famous person new best to understand this story. And as i mentioned earlier we expect these people to paint this picture that fills in all the gaffes has all the puzzle. Pieces that you mentioned. And they don't they don't don't know have glimpses. They have elements of the story. That seemed to be at odds with each other. They tell you about pieces that they wouldn't actually therefore so. How do they really know. They're filling in their own gaps and only one of them is an entirely sympathetic appealing person. And that's mr bernstein. I mean at least in my humble opinion. I wanna talk about that. Yeah and we'll talk about all these psa side characters so you're asked to relate to somebody who's not particularly sympathetic and as you very wisely point out in news on the march you have to wait about five minutes into that newsreel before you even get the name of who the heck they're talking about so you go. What is going on here. I'm being toyed with your. You're absolutely right and what what makes it so interesting as well is how much information they give you about the trajectory of this movie right up front. I mean we want to know who's charles foster kane is where assumed we are a hollywood audience. We live in the world of heroes and villains. Is charles foster kane hero. Or is he a villain and right there in that opening segment. You have one person saying he's a communist one person saying he's a fascist and him saying i'm an american light and that's exactly what this movie is. We want to think of him either. Just give us some clarity. Is he a hero. Whose miss understood is he a villain who did horrible things neither. He's a person. He's a complicated man who doesn't even fully understand himself who these the people closest to him don't fully understand. He's just a person in each of the people who talks about him can only talk about him from their point of view as and life. This this is why. I think this movie holds up so beautifully. We are all familiar with this. How well am. I'm repeating myself. But how well can we get to know. Another human being and the answer is even when we get a lot of information a lot of stuff. And i do mean stuff. Both literally and figuratively. We do not know who you are exactly right. So shall we go. I guess maybe segment by segment here. Let's we'll start then with mr thatcher. Oh yes and which. I think is also fascinating in part of the reason why we go to susan alexander i only to learn nothing is to create a juxtaposition between her and her situation in her reality here. And then mr thatcher as we go into this one is in life libraries and is completely human sized whereas thatcher is is. There's nothing there's almost nothing humid about in you. Go to this. Almost mausoleum cleveland the library. And they're the radio drama comes in the minute. You hear the sound of that place. It's all hollow an echo with these two almost end raj creatures who run it and nobody in the library. Walled off in every possible. Way is not a place you want to be. You are confined. You can only look at these pages of his notebook That's it and you're going to be here for thirty by spy. Just it's crazy and then you go into what is the most talked-about and possibly the most remarkable piece of the whole movie. And that is we'll be go to his childhood right. Which of course sets up everything. And i'd like to point out. We just mom keeping my snuggle. Metaphor live again. A key. a key sunlight in that room as well despite being a mausoleum-like place descending as though it can be looked in through like a snow globe to this man. That's a beautiful way to think about this. This is just according to me. And this isn't fully fleshed out. But as we learned in this segment the tension that exists between thatcher and charles foster kane. Where charles foster kane that he so eloquently puts it as the stakeholder in the public transit system that owns eighty six thousand four hundred twenty or you know shares is very angry and blah blah blah. But as the publisher of the inquirer he he has these two sides of him where he is a man of the people that were he thinks of himself as a man of the people. But he's also the six wealthiest person in the world. There's this tension. And i think right off the bat you learn and obviously it's kind of juxtapose with thatcher who is the banker who extremely wealthy but has none of those liberal feelings that that has it's set up right there in the same way that we've just come from new which is also a mausoleum of staggering proportions. But it's filled with all the stuff in the eccentricities and now we move to this man's mausoleum which has nothing it's completely austere it shows. There's that connection between these two men where they're both exceptionally wealthy. They're both exceptionally powerful. But there's a difference there. There's a key difference here variance. Then we part of going back to of course his childhood. And i'd rather have lunch with charles foster kane than with mr thatcher i although i would most like to have lunch with mr bernstein but that's a whole other. We'll wait for him. Well we'll get to mr bernstein short enough so then we go back to this log cabin which we then learn of course at the end is kind of the crux of this particular telling of the story and we have where now we start to get into the artistic. Excellence of this movie where you have this long. Take and depth of field and layering of sound design that gorgeous. It is gorgeous and it is why i think. Gregg toland shares a title card with orson welles at the end of the movie lee. Arson wells had a giant ego. But he didn't have solarge an ego that he didn't know that this movie would not have been possible without gregg toland because it seems like all on a daily basis. Greg told the cinematographer is asked by this twenty four year old. Tiro i need this. And greg tolan's go on you need what well okay. I'll try to make that happen. And he makes so many beautiful visual moments happened and he does. The same thing with bernard hermann. The remarkable composer who again was early in his career who creates music and a sound. Feel for this. Add to that wells' experience with radio and you get all of the magic. That happens in what i do. Feel is one of the greatest moments in film. As the parents are negotiating. What's going to happen to the kid. The kid is playing in a window a game with himself. He's a lonely kid but he's a happy kid reasonably and saying things like they union forever. You can't lick andy jackson and and disappearing from the window and then popping back up in the window and occasionally apparent will obscure the window particularly as the negotiation is being completed and then we also begin to understand that the father is really not much of a father is an abusive father but that comes a little bit later but we understand that. The father is willing quite quickly to give up the kid for money right. Yeah i mean he he comes off as you sympathize with him as a father until that moment of yeah you'll be paid fifteen thousand dollars a year and then it's probably best for the child. Thank you and you're like okay. Now we get a sense of who you are. And then the ultimate payoff. Is you say that he thinks that. This kid needs a good thrashing and mary mary jane. That's exactly why we're sending him away and credit to agnes moorehead as her performance as this mother who comes off so so harsh and then to realize that she is doing this. Unspeakably painful thing entirely for the good of her son or what. She believes to be good for her son. Here here. and it's a wrenching a gut wrenching. Mo- heart-wrenching moment to say that she's doing this for urge responsible. Not responsible incomplete. If we don't point out the fun little detail as the camera is clearly pulling back To keep the depth of field and the kid in the window. If you listen carefully you can hear the camera movie. And then you see the top pat on the table wobbling just a bit because they had to negotiate had to move furniture about in order to get the camera through. Yeah i love that but you only notice it. If it's called to your attention right you don't you don't notice it otherwise but it's i love that that you can see fingerprints on a movie that that it has. It has some reality to when we talked about casablanca the same thing how cheesy some of the scenery was. But we don't care right and we don't care that we notice these little things exactly very well put thank. It's it is the first. I think kind of peace to resist moment of the film of saying this is. This is what we're doing on an artistic level. I mean. I love. Also i mean. We'll talk you've already brought up the sound. The music the score of this film carry such power. It conveys as you talk about the entire trajectory of the movie on just on the sound design alone. We are introduced to the music that that charles foster kane is associated with in his childhood and specifically with his mother and with his sled which really only resurfaces in the movie in variations on the theme when he meets susan alexander and then of course the burning of his his sled at the end. This is the music associated with that side of him that emotional connection to his childhood and is contrasted because it is far more subtle with the other key piece of music. Which is the music associated with his rise to power characterizes. Much of the first half of the movie was basically just for notes. But it's the power theme. And and herman understands the power of the motif in writing a film score and then with striking originality. I'm not much. I'm not enough of an authority to talk about how clever it is but his instrumentation is so different than what people were accustomed to in films at the time. It's a leaner instrumentation. It's surprising instruments like a best soon. A taking the lead and and that makes it all the richer and this is another reason why. I love to shut my eyes when i watched this movie. And just wallow in the score right. I'm a great herman fan. And i think as your audience knows. Herman went on to become hitchcock's composer of choice. And give us some of the greatest film music that we know. I happen to believe however and okay. I'm just going to say this. I think the greatest film score ever written is bernard hermann score for citizen kane. So i've said it there it is there you have it okay. All right and guess what tony. The two films that are vying for number one on the list share in common bernard hermann. He wrote the music for vertigo. He wrote the music for citizen kane. Maybe bernard hermann has as much to do with the two films as all the other folks who worked on them is a total aside and one that you know but i am a fundamental believer. That music carries such weight with film. And that so many of the amazing films that we love that have such great places aren't our heart are entirely there because of the music off script for just one sale needs. Yeah jonny greenwood jonny greenwood. There will be blood phantom thread this. This guy is going to be. The next bernard hermann that you heard it here heard it here. I think we only talk about the old movies. Keeping you on your toes the future so okay. So let's progress. We're we're out of the cabin and it's one of those things that you know as we say the movie that begs to be watched and it's certainly not to be very watch because you know what rosebud is and you realize that this movie has nothing to do with rosebud in the end of it is irrelevant. What really is but you go back and you re watch it and you say from the beginning. How many clues. There are two that it's rose about. I mean the number of just extremely disting- lines of dialogue. That is probably something completely little and unimportant. And maybe it's a thing he lost and he leaves the cabin and the very next seen. He's getting a sled for christmas that he hates. And if you go back to the news newsreel. One of the first spoken lines you here in the newsreel is thatcher in the committee investigation responding to question about being hit by a sled. Yes but you didn't know right you didn't know and so you appreciate that on later viewings. How many clues. There are along the way and that's enjoyable in its own right but we so we progress out of the. We get a fairly a fairly strong trajectory citizens of citizen. Charles foster kane's because thatcher was there for for much of it that he kind of ultimately bails him out at the end. Yes but you realize other than that beginning. We get very little insight into charles foster kane beyond his antagonism of thatcher which is important. Don't get me wrong. And the bluster that he brings of hoping to bring down thatcher and everything he stands for and wanting to be everything he hates is a powerful moment. But where we have not probed far beyond the surface and i. I think you're really onto something when you talk about the juxtaposition of thatcher world and charles foster kane's childhood world that those those two things being together in this sequence tell us something about the power money and the power of memory and the innocence of childhood and the happiness that that this man never could get back. There is one shot during the thatcher. Sequence that i think i don't know if it's important but it's useful to the viewer and that is when you see all of the narrators together. With the exception of susan and the exception of the butler in a shot you see. Jed uc bernstein uc kane and you see thatcher they are all in one shot and you go okay those are going to be my storytellers now again. You don't really know that until the second time through but there they are right. This is the cast of characters. Thank you very much. That's that's an interesting point. You're one hundred percent correct and you take away the beginning is exactly thatcher's takeaway right. He understands the rise and the fall of cain based on his business doings as as as a newspaper publisher and that ultimately he had to bail them out and that's his takeaway right. We don't we don't get any real emotional insight other than what we read into. As empathetic human beings of this was a traumatic. Start to this kid's life right and thatcher never liked cain thatcher never believed in anything cain was setting out to do. And that's the end of that story. Thatcher is just simply not a nice guy i almost. You're gonna disagree. I think thatcher cares for kane. I think it's not that he. He's disappointed in the in the in the man's choices but to me he is a he is you know he's obviously a father figure by force but he's you know he's a father who doesn't know how to show emotion but he cares. He never disassociates himself from kane if he really didn't like him. You know. I feel like cain would have turned twenty five and it would have been. I'll see you never again. That's fair enough max. I and there's this element you know. I think the scene which is a. There's a humor to it when he's writing the letter to kane who's often you know europe somewhere. I don't think you understand the importance of this situation that you have the sixth largest fortune in the world and this and that and the other and therefore i'm enclosing a list of your holding so that you understand i mean it's just those are the terms in which this man knows how to show affection quote unquote my family. That the only way he really knows how to show. Affection is through how you look at the money and the stuff of life and it doesn't mean that they're a bad person it's just the currency with which a work right and to me. I think it's two scenes in particular that show that he. And i think it goes both ways which is also fascinating. That as much as kane likes to make it seem. He hates thatcher and everything he stands for. There's an affection of these two men just on having spent so much time together and it's the scene in the newspaper. When cain shows you he's not an idiot he understands exactly what he is holdings are but that he is going to pursue the life he wants to pursue and there is this. i mean. It's a confrontational seen of him. Saying i'm going to publish these stories bringing everything you stand for down. But they leave on a note of what we can put that behind like we understand that. There's this tension. That's irreconcilable between us. But we still have a connection. And i'll add to that because i think you're onto something that the the spatial world that cain ultimately lives in defined by xanadu is a spacial world. That borrows its outsized. Snus from the world of thatcher. Because if you look in thatcher's world both the and his office with this wainscoting that is as high as a human head. That's where that's where. Cain gets in the way he he thinks about space. And that if you're rich you need to have a big fireplace right. You need to have high wainscoting. You need to whatever. That's an excellent point. I think. I think you're absolutely right. That thatcher would approve of all the places that other than maybe the office of this newspaper of how charles foster has appointed his lifestyle at this point. One of the things that gets talked about citizen kane so often is ceilings because we get to see ceilings whereas that would not be usual in films of the time because they like to lower equipment through a nonexistent sailing on a sound stage but the world of thatcher's thatcher ceilings are almost out of sight. And when when the when the movie gets human sized. The ceilings lower and and particularly after kane is defeated in election. the ceiling is almost oppressive. I do think the spatial design of everything about this film. The spatial design the audio design. The musical design. I could go on and on and on the camera design is so completely thought through without ever calling too much attention to itself it. There's meticulousness that's graceful. And that's what i love about it. Well put you mentioned the ceilings. I reminds me that orson welles is reported to have watched stagecoach. Yes forty summertimes. One of his favorite movies blown away in large part of the spatial design. That john four did stagecoach movie. I think we talked about episode. Four classic movie muscle him. Check it out. Check it out. But i'm struck particularly of the scene. You're right that wants. He loses the election but his presence in the inquirer that he is this sized presence in this undersized space oh my guy and he is just begging to burst out of it or to grow it here to surround him on an appropriate level. It makes me. I'm always struck by how much of the ceiling you see. And then thinking of the scene in stagecoach when they're in the in the house where ultimately the woman gives birth. How much of the ceiling. You see scrunching on these call Because there's no question as you say on the spatial design that he is just begging to burst out of it and it's something we come back to and also something. We obviously is tremendously emphasized by gregg toland and these stark angles from which we view the newspaper. Fewer only remember when he keeps sending stuff back from europe. This this pathetic little room just gets jammed with crates of stuff of which never even gets opened right. That's the other thing he. I think we all know hoarders today. Who will order stuff from amazon and just loaded in a room and never opened the boxes. What kane is a little like that. He so much of the stuffy bought he never uses or enjoys or occupies his world with just stays in a box as as he says right at the end of thatcher sequence that he used his money to buy things right. And that's you know if there's ever a clue that really the answer to the answers were looking for as detective audience or in the things and not in the people. But i think that's a good segue to move onto your man. My man bernstein. Who is i agree with you. I think he's probably the most likeable character in the entire movie. He's he's the only character i mean you understand. He's a total yes man. But there's a sympathetic quality to him. And one of the things that i think is so important to remember about mr bernstein particularly in one thousand nine hundred. Forty one particularly given that joseph mankiewicz herman mankiewicz the co writers is jewish. Is the bernstein is clearly. A jewish character whose jewishness on one level is stereotyped in the film and another level is commented on in the most sympathetic of ways. And we'll hold off when we get to later sequence talking about that but when we first meet mr bernstein in a we hear him tell what i am told is herman mankiewicz favourite piece of writing that beautiful story about the girl in the white dress in the parasol. And it is. It's gorgeous then. When next we meet him he's riding on top of a carriage almost like a jewish immigrant peddler with stuff and then we get some sort of vaudeville shtick when he arrives in the newspaper. Office all the stuff falling around him. And so we're sort of invited into the stereotype and as you say correctly the yes man but we get to the famous scene when we watch the dissolution of a marriage and we get the ad semitism from the first mrs cain she does not want mr bernstein and his vulgar gift in the child's nursery. All of it not commented on directly and all the more powerful. Because it's there that that moves me deeply and mr bernstein moves me deeply. I love the guy. I've just plain love the guy and i love the fact that no matter. What even though he was a yes man i think he really loved charles foster kane the most outsized thing in his office is the photo of portrait over. Absolutely right. I mean you really truly believe this is a man who's proud to sit beneath it. He always proud to hold the position. He held in association with kane. And do you notice that. He calls everybody by their full name. Mr cain mr leland whatnot whereas everybody else gets and he's always called mr bernstein right but the others call each other by first name. Charlie jed susan yada yada yada all that's coded in the movie in the subtlest and best of ways. I keep saying it. Because it's not underlined. Right if you underline your message well then. It's just a message. If you don't underline it and you get it then you get it in your gut and i think this movie is powerful. In that regard. Well put an a movie. i mean. Obviously the trajectory of this movie that deals you say with with the power of memory the understanding of who a human being is the fickle qualities of just being a human. There is i mean. It's it's told over the course of this two hour movie. It is so perfectly specifically told in that story of the woman with the parasol on the ferry. That in just that moment you understand that that is exactly what being a human is all about that you could have seen a person for a split second that never even acknowledged you that that stays with you for the entire rest of your life and the the unknown ways that it would probably alter the trajectory you you go and who could ever identify that if you wanted to understand who mr bernstein was if this were citizen citizen bernstein and whenever and that was the you could never trace it back to that woman on the ferry no it would be impossible but it clearly has had this outsized effect and as important and as unimportant as rosebud indeed so now we get into the mr bernstein segment which is really the ultimate. I takes us through citizen kane kind of at his peak. I keep calling him citizen kane charles foster kane citizen kane you know it works it works and i like that but bringing it back to the music that music just grows and grows the segment and then of course climax is in the scene in which the chronicle inquirer has now out past the chronicle bread. We have this parade of marching band and dancing. Girls office just bought the report. The solution was just spend money by. There's no particular cleverness other than just buy them just like you buy and then you get the earworm song of all time that that that song they sang to celebrate in the marching band. And it's like early rap. Almost it's a patter song and you can't get it out of your head and then he's gonna use that tune later in the movie a to to break our hearts in some ways. There's something there's one moment in that celebration that that i really want to focus on and it is if you remember when we saw charlie in a window. That was back when he was a kid and he was playing with his sled. The next time. We see charlie in a window. He is reflected in a window. As jed and mr bernstein talk about him as he's dancing and and they're really speculating. Do you really that. The conversation is about really. Who is this man. And how great is he and and what is he doing but you see a reflection of him in the window and then the cigar smoke from jed almost just eats up the reflection bringing up both for me window and smoke which i think. I think it's intentional. But i don't care if it's intentional. It's something that that struck me forcefully. And also in that same moment if you look at the ice sculpture of jed and mr bernstein behind jets got his big cigar and then in another ghastly stereotype. Mr bernstein's knows is exaggerated to almost fagin like length. It's it's it's again and mankiewicz. I am told by a relative of his. This was they thought about this. They wanted to both employ the stereotype. And then turn it on. Its head when we meet. Mrs cain talking about him. I liked very interesting. I'm curious to see where that goes now in in the susie section. But you're absolutely right. That scene in which i mean jed leland with his. I wanna keep your declaration of principles. I think that's going to be a very important document. Not unlike the constitution and the bill of rights and all these things and then this is the first moment where we start to see him really beginning to question. Is this man really going to live up. And did you notice that. When cain is reading the declaration of independence of principles thank you when he's reading it. Did you notice that. His face is totally unlit. Yes it is dark. Just like the reporter's face because if you actually listen to the declaration that's not the kind of journalism that cain ends up employing impact. He's a yellow journalist of the most egregious kind of the headlines. Big enough the news is big enough. You supply the pros. Also supply the war fake you and yet the declaration of principles is. I'll tell only the truth. It'll be pure it'll be simple. I'll serve the people. There's a lovely and then when it gets torn up much later in the film along with a check then that's it doesn't get torn up. The check gets torn up. And then can't yes cares about. I feel like this is a good moment to pause and look at the historical context of this. Because what i find particularly fascinating about this citizen kane was i mean. It's quite overtly in reference to william randolph hearst. The newspaper magnet. It was quite poorly received by william randolph hearst due to to be quite the representation of him as it is clearly to be. Orson welles denied that fact but that is was undeniably the context and audience and nineteen forty. One would have seen this movie as clearly in reference. It's clearly in reference to the politics of william randolph hearst. Who is an isolationist. Orson welles was not. He was Quite the supporter of the new deal and fdr. So the i mean. This movie is super overtly political. I think anyone who has the same year we have casablanca casa blanca against america. First let's get into the war. Let's do our thing and echoing as you say correctly. What the hearst position was. I just say one thing and i'm happy to have this conversation. Isn't it wonderful. However how beautifully. This movie works without any knowledge of william randolph hearst. So that's that's exactly the point. I was coming to make. Which is it's two thousand eighteen. I can't imagine. I mean william randolph. Hearst in many ways is the least relevant is ever been since he existed not a topic of conversation in the slightest no but the echoes of hearst in fake news and also something we can an mar-a-lago actually makes its way into this movie. If you want to go there in xanadu in florida in any event but but that the political things about this movie fascinating as they are and and and for me. They're the least for me as as a student and teacher of film. That's the least interesting thing. And when i teach this film to kids today i spend about three minutes on that part of it. I say you can talk about this in your history class if you want to. But that's not. We're going to talk about here by continue please. I agree with you and at the same time. I find the intersection of of the history. And the arts so fascinating to say that this movie so clearly a response to that or using that. It's not it's not that he said. I want to make a movie. About william randolph hearst. They had this idea in play. And it worked in with hearst and played off of those themes. But at the same time i mean. It's on last week's episode. We talked about the manchurian candidate. And i talked about mark twain saying that history doesn't repeat itself but it certainly rhymes and as you say we're living in this era of fake news without trying to be overtly political on this show because there's not a political show but there's no question that citizen kane fabricated the news as he charles foster ten and the real the real grandchild of william randolph. Hearst murdoch it. Right i mean. I don't think anybody would deny that that. That's a direct kind of connection as as we look at. How news is. Has you look at it handle and you almost wonder take it as you will to the extent that had charles foster kane had gotten elected. Are we living in that reality to a certain extent. I don't think with without question so this movie is going to continue to hold up on so many levels and that that level is without question invited yes. Donald trump charles foster kane. There are many connections. So it's just it's interesting to think that a movie with such a direct political context in one era could really almost lose entirely that context and still be fascinating but can also regain its entirely new contacts in this era and it could be applicable to two new. The new status quo. When are when the people who follow us fifty years from now doing a podcast about citizen kane. I can't wait to know what they're going to talk about. Because it's going to hold up indeed all right. So back to mr bernstein under his his retelling. Which is you know. It's told with such care and affection and law. I mean he's such a sympathetic old man comparative to the other stories. We hear which are not told with a great deal effect. You get glimpses of the affection. Yes but there's so many complicating factors. There is almost unqualified affection for kane in the bernstein very well put very well put and it carries us through canes height and carries us into his decline his downfall however you want to take it and it it gives us what has to be. I mean there are so many amazing sequences in this film but another one. Just like the log cabin. Is the breakfast sequence. Two minutes we watch a marriage fall apart in two minutes and visually. I think i love most about the falling. Apart of the marriages scene is that everyone thinks that it's a bigger table. At the end of the scene it is not in fact. It is the same table but the angle which shot the way in which they're sitting at a small intimate breakfast table for young lovers who just got married has turned into a war zone where they no longer talk to each other. They look though they're miles. Apart and the music and that seen each piece of music you begin with the waltz. Which is the music lovers and then you go through a kind of a different kinds of dances that show you that. This is not working and then at the end. We're just in this kind of almost ominous silence which they're reading rival newspapers and and and and and then of course don't forget the antisemitic moment when she says you know your mr bernstein sent the most vulgar is the. She hadn't used that word chooses in other words. I can't remember what it is. Yeah heinous maybe she said it's and i just simply can't have it in the nursery and he says well mr bernstein's likely to visit the nursery and she says in that withering tone that you always hear that is racist in its in. Its in its tone must he. Yeah and we know what we hear that again. They don't underline it but it's there right and it's rick the costuming we talked about the the costuming the set decor but by her her clothing throughout his too but hers particularly she at the at the beginning is open and vulnerable in there and at the end she has just encased in in in clothing up to her neck hiding behind the rival newspaper. It's awesome right i. I teach that seen so much that my kids actually start screaming at me to stop teaching. But you could. You could build a whole film course. It's such an hit me of showing and not telling which is its own cliche. But it's all working together right. It's the staging of them. Moving slowly and slowly apart from each other the dialogue which gets snappier and more pointed and more cutting to the point that you erase dialogue completely at the end. And then you bring in props as you say. It's again not highlighted. But the fact that she's reading the chronicle and he's reading his of course. The enquirer tells you everything you could possibly need to know about the state of their marriage and again to go back to my point. If you only listen to it you'll still get the whole story. Oh yes even. The silence even an aside. The silence speaks volumes. It's and it such as you say such a succinct seen to two minutes there were alterior versions of this script. Wear where mary kane did not die. Her son grew up to actually be a nazi and was killed. Trying to pull off some sort of raid in washington. Dc and we end up learning that she and her son their son killed in a car accident which necessitates the fact that. We're not going to hear the story from her perspective and so this breakfast scene is the perfect stand in for their time together and the trajectory you know as you say we learn everything we need to know in two minutes and then of course we have the introduction of susan. We've already gone over kind of because of the snow globe. The her importance of her introduction into the script his political downfall which is quite overt. And now we start to see this man's pride really getting in his own way So can we talk about susan. Now let's it. We talk about jed. Well yeah okay. I know we're running. No no no. I don't mind because if there's ever an episode to have a long episode. I think listeners would agree. It's this because you mentioned susan. There's one thing about the beginning of susan's that this is as good a time as any to mention to listen to. And it goes back to bernard hermann. He's playing nightclub music on the piano as we re meet susan and as we segue into the beginning of her seen. She's doing the mozart aria with the piano vocal instructor and the way herman goes from the blues z. Music right into mozart without missing a beat is just so. Just listen to it right. It's time around and you'll love it but let's go back to jed because we have to we can't we can't forget jet right because we're we're in jad because that's where the the marriage falls apart. It's also where we hear the most heartbreaking version of the rosebud played. I believe. I'm almost certain on this. A harmonic -ly sounds like a synthesizer but of course it's not right now anyway. No i appreciate that. So yes we get jed story and credit of course to this movie and the just the makeup right. I mean the aging technology of these people. It's so it's the it's the theater folks purse west more of the great west more clan. Who did more makeup than anybody. I think in the history of movies. Yeah which one purse falls in which iteration of them all purse falls into. Maybe we should do some research on that but anyway the makeup is amazing. Yes and there's something. I think particularly satisfying in the jed leland sequence. In the fact that he's the he's the character we go the longest until we see him in his old right warm while having seen him for much of the movie as a young man correct. That's because we see susan right off the bat. And we see thatcher right at the beginning mr bernstein. Well there's something about building up to all right now. This is the first time we're seeing jed. He's older he's in this wheelchair he's in hospital old age. It's the only is only disease that you don't crotch as crotchety and he wants a cigar. And he's playing games right like i mean he's and you understand. I mean it's it's in many. I don't know about most. Susan has her own strong reasons. But you really start to see jed and susan the anger and that that lives on towards charles foster kane because things don't end well because of who he was but then you still have those moments of you know all i heard he was living down there all alone and you know i i. Maybe i should have called him because he was probably lonely. And that's just one of those regrets that come late in life about an old friend who you've fallen out with and it's those little lines that that craft who these people are and the trajectory they've gone on and that that particularly affecting seen when jets drunk a and they've lost the election and You hear the theme. That was played during the celebration of cain At the newspaper played as a dirge as they're talking and the camera. They've actually dug a hole in the floor to stick the camera so that they can shoot from this absurdly low angle to make them look almost grotesquely large and yet the ceiling is just weighing on top of them and all the confetti on the floor. That's a heartbreaking moment because that's what they lived for and of course. The beauty of that is incense. Cain was hoist by his own petard after he got caught in a love nest the very kind of journalism that reports that is the kind of journalism he practiced and gorse at. And i love that dude. If you're going to practice it then it can also bite you know where if you if you do something wrong so well put and we start to see that arrogance of you know thinking that you can't take the love of the people away from me over some they're going to under you know. He thinks he can overcome it. And as you say no you've created this system where people thrive on that kind of scandal and love to tear those people down. Of course you'll be the next one. If you you know you engage and you did also love to headlines. They might use fraud at polls. Yeah it's a great sequence as well that's murdoch world absolutely you have exactly. It's charles foster kane defeated fraud at polls and the headline is big enough as they say. The news is big enough. Thank you As we start to see very much in the sequence w- we see it throughout but those low angle shots that gives so much power to both charles foster kane and jedi linda. I mean they're both kind of in that privilege space of the low angle often because leland accompanies charles foster kane. It's more meant for charles than it is for leland. And but as you say that low angle which gives so much power we see it most in its strongest moment when he confronts susan and completely consumed or her in his shadow which is such a height of that kind of power. But it is you say. It creates this sense of claustrophobia. As well for these men who want power want the success and are not achieving it quite quite in the way they hope and i think the only if you're going to dig a hole in the floor in order to get your camera all the way down there then you are turning. What could make these. Men looked powerful into a comment on their power and their loss of power. In this particular instance. It's it's spatially handled in a breathtaking way. Yes do you want. I'd love to talk now because you just mentioned about susan. When when when he he lets her know that you know you have to go on singing. He says no matter what. I've bought you an opera house. I bought you. i bought you a career. I've paid for coaches. You're going to have to go on singing and then we get that breathtaking. Montage right out of german expressionism. By the way that that could be an f w murnau scene and sound and bernard. Hermann just goes out there and then she tries to kill herself and then when he sits by her bedside after she's tried to kill herself. We hear and this is herman at his best. He takes the mozart. Aria puts it in a hertie gertie. Sounds like a some messenger on the street Right out of german. In some german folklore the hertie gertie is the agent of death. And it's so the'real it's so special it's so magical at breaks my heart understandably so i it is that sequence of after her. Attempted suicide is so emotional. Obviously you feel this woman's pain as she got in this situation particularly ask for and is caught up in this cycle of this man's ego and and emotional district and she turns out to be the one thing that money he money cannot buy her after all is said and done no matter how much money he built xanadu for her. He built a career for her. He spent gazillion dollars on her and she leaves him. Yep and obviously we see the emotional breakdown of that to him completely. Losing control in her bedroom. Which i like how you described it as so childlike because it it does look like the child's bedroom and if you see the first shot one of the first shots in that room there's a. There's a doll resting against the pillow. That in profile looks exactly like susan in profile. I hadn't noticed. I check that out. And then of course the greatest one takes seen probably in movie history is when he destroys the room. Right now. I just don't think you can redo that scene. And they didn't it was the first take. Has his hands were bleeding at the end of it and he was he was in it one hundred percent i do wanna i want to take a step back even before i know we get to her attempted suicide that montage sequence which you already mentioned is so i mean it's so well put together the layering that goes on of obviously her continued performances. The reviews that accompany them. The lights flashing it. All is layered quite clearly on top of each other to create this meaning that we associate. And what's what's so interesting to me or the elements that this film combining this film is best known in history for its depth of field. And it's long takes it. That was a technological advancement. What they were able to do with the long take in this movie and the depth of field and that's completely valid. It's gorgeous to watch the scenes in foreground and background play out but it's not just a movie about depth of field and it's keenly aware of saying we know how to use the right technique in the right moment to convey what we're hoping to convey the montage is already hinted at early on because this film has great visual irony from the beginning. You know. obviously it's not cut to anything but him saying you know there will be no war in that opening segment is nine hundred forty one. You know we know that that that's incorrect. The scene that immediately precedes kicking off the montage. But susan saying oh well charles said that if if they won't have me in new york he's going to build me my own opera hall and he says well that won't be necessary and the immediately cut to a headline saint charles foster kane builds an opera house in chicago. I mean these visual ironies of saying we're pointing out that this is this is this is a flawed outside his own ego. And then it culminates in this montage sequence to convey this the chest the exhaustion of this woman's decline you hear her singing and then musically it almost becomes a scream which dies out at the end. It's like it. I won't imitate because i'll do a badly. But but it is the the and she never really wanted to be this kind of a singer show. She said from the beginning that she doesn't want to sing that kind of saw him. It's not for the beauty of the way they do her singing the movie is she's not god all she's just not good and there's a difference. She's not florence foster jenkins right but she clearly bad. We're gonna go with not good okay. And she's not meant to be on an opera stage. Not certainly you can almost sense singing. A different song wouldn't be. It would be fine but but but it's and then the other sequence actually. It's very much going. We consider the long takes. There's one particular scene that actually has very traditional hollywood editing of the shot reverse shot and it's the scene in susan's apartment as they are falling in love if you will but clearly. He's quite smitten with her particularly mostly because she doesn't know who he is and she likes him anyway but it's that seen as they are falling in love that you get that very traditional hollywood shot reverse shot back and forth because falling in love is typically hollywood so why not use the typical hollywood language for it. Exactly you we just they orson welles gregg toland rubber wise as you all these people have a sense of. These are all the tools at our disposal. We don't need to stick to just one and they can all fit together. Still be a very coherent visual theme and style that carries the whole film right and it is the elegance and precision with which they use all the elements of the language of film without really over using any of without. I think calling too much attention to the magic of what they're doing would and at the same time honoring so much tradition in movies from john. Ford german expressionism. And doing doing it. All with with with grayson style and care and a certain amount of what's pa but not too much. It's not it's not a. It's not a film that brags on itself. It's not it's very well done. Don't get me wrong but it's not. Hey look what i'm doing. I'm just a kid with a camera. it's in a film that does so much. It would be easy for it to feel like an exercise in filmmaking. Perfect and look how much we can do right. And it doesn't come off that way at all and it is the restraint. it's the combination of enough restraint. The deliberate approach and then the sophistication of the people involved. I mean orson welles clearly extremely talented but as you say has long background of artistic expression but has not made a movie yet at this point in his career is very young and knows appropriately how to defer to people like gregg toland. robert wise. Megabits bernard hermann. I mean and you think all of these men combined this could turn into an ego fest of no. It's going to be the visuals. No it's gonna be the sound. no. I'm going to tell a story through montage and editing. No it's the dialogue. No it's the perfect balance of all of these things and that's really where the movie excels by tapping into the right thing at the right moment. Layering multiple pieces together to my now is the only real tension. That existed was between mak- wits and orson welles in that wells was going to try and take credit for having written the movie and at absolutely not the case not that he didn't have a strong influence on the writing but ultimately they share credit one of the thing i think we should mention and that is almost all of the actors are unknown to the movie going public they are theater actors and wells has the generosity and and and to a certain extent the false humility to introduce them at the end with the exception of himself which he keeps to the last credit but introducing them visually because they're they're newcomers are theater folks and and their skill at acting is brings a certain kind of acting to this movie that the movie going public probably hadn't seen acting such depth one in particular like to mention because maybe some time we can do. This movie is the magnificent. Amerson is coming up starring joseph cotten who plays gently and think we have to do it. And it kind of you know. It'll be an ongoing conversation surrounding wells. And his style and things like that. I think we're we're nearing the end of this film. Obviously we haven't given susan exactly her full shift yet. We go back to her. And now we do get those sequences in xanadu. We get to see them living there. If you want to call it that it's absurd. I'd be the distance between the chairs the size of that fireplace the sound when you're talking there sounds like thatcher's library. I might add exactly this connection between xanadu thatcher. And his style. The olympics in there two moments in that sequence that Just astound me. One is that sort of interior screaming when they're often the picnic and he slaps her. And then we hear this scream and we think for a second must be coming from an adjoining tent or we don't know is it inside. Her is some pain. she's feeling we don't know and then shortly thereafter we get the cockatoo which is great one of my students. Point out real definitely wake you up if you fall asleep and it does But it's that moment is so that sequence there is so charged for him so he can't understand this it. Nobody can leave me. i can leave. you can divorce. You can abandon you. I can do whatever but you can't leave me. And she does and he responds. yeah. I mean in fantastic. That's sequence of you. Almost get a sense when he approaches her to convince her not to leave that he's almost saying the right things to get her to stay so close and then it's you can't do this to me and re clarifies for her exactly why she's doing this in the first place. That is somehow being done to you that it's all about you in your mind you control everything. Nothing is going to change whatsoever and then in case you thought you were getting to know him a little better. You see the shot of reflection upon reflection upon reflection upon reflection of him and you go which one of these infinity of images is the real man we will not no. He doesn't know he doesn't know absolutely neither neither do i. By the way. And so i mean so many visual stunning visuals early. I mean as you say her with her. Jigsaw puzzles endlessly him stepping into his own fireplace practically in the in the flames of his mouth like fireplace. Saying i have no desire to go to new york. This is our home. This is nothing but there's some for some reason one couch and one chair in this cavernous place. I love the line of dialogue in the tent later on and first of all. I don't know if what your thought was the first time you saw this movie. But let's just say the charles foster kane and i have extremely different perspectives on. What a picnic and said you think. Oh here's he's like let's go have a picnic. It's an intimate thing to people on a blanket. Something lead of car. It's a fleet caravan and what you have to assume people paid to come and spend time with those who are these people and they don't they don't talk to them one little thing about the picnic scene as i think you know they they make it look everglades. They use some footage from king kong. And if you look if you look in the background you can see pterodactyls flying about which probably would not be true in the everglades but that's kind of fun. Yes but then there's very dinosaur important in that scene and that sequence here in xanadu that hearkens back for my mind to something else in the movie that i'd like to mention when we go early in the film. The sled getting covered with snow. And we move into. The world of charlie being raised by thatcher and the bank. We get time passing and we hear train. We hear clock or music. That sounds like a clock. The next time we get that same feeling is when susan is doing her jigsaw puzzles. And the season's pass and we hear a clock again music. That sounds like a clock and time and trying to fit together. The pieces of the jigsaw puzzle are conflated. And we're getting a little clue and then here's a delicious thing for me. I'm told i believe i'm correct about this. The last major not major but the last player of any kind and citizen kane to die is the woman who speaks the line about. I bet you know. She has the jigsaw puzzle. And she says i bet if you could figure out what what rosebud is that answering the and thompson says no i don't think so. He's he's at least come to realize after all his investigating thompson being the reporter. Yes and i think it's fascinating that that's the person who has left the cast last. That is a poetic. If nothing else here you're absolutely correct and we do have that ending of the endless things narrow the only vestiges left of this man most of which are being burned or sold off. And we think i mean as thompson says because he is very much are kind of standing over the course of this movie that none of this really is is getting at anything. No there's not there is not that one key piece. It is very much jigsaw puzzle with the missing piece as you say. It is very much wandering through a labyrinth. Never finding a center as as my metaphor goes love. Your metaphor the two of them. I mean they're both. I think we're saying the exact same thing. We want to ascribe meaning to this in a way that life just doesn't particularly allow for and the and we think we get the answer we see rosebud in the fire and then it just goes up in smoke and then we have to climb back down the fence and be reminded than all along. We weren't even supposed to be there. We were trespassing and we were told not to but we we did it and we are only informed about this but it is a profound discovery. We are informed that we human beings are mysteries to ourselves and to others. I can't top that. So i hope at the end of this hour to an hour and a half long episode which i hope the listeners. Don't mind i've certainly enjoyed partaking in it as max that i don't think you can you can say a a movie is the best movie the greatest movie but this is certainly an a very important movie. A movie worth studying worth talking about and its influence is is obviously extremely great one of the very very interesting factoid about this movie going back to the historical context of it was that hearst. Obviously william randolph. Hearst very upset with this movie's creation and this man held tremendous power both in hollywood and in the country in general and of no pressure of his direct pressure his own. The heads of the other major hollywood studios offered are ko. Who released this movie. Had the deal with austin wells. They offered a million dollars which obviously no short some money at the time to not release it not only to not release it to burn the negative. An arco declined the offer now given the controversy surrounding it and the desire people not to make this man angry. The movie did not do well. I think it made back. Its money in the end. It did not make a million dollars in profit by any means but credits who knows exactly their motivations at the time. But we're certainly all luckier as a society that are. Ko wasn't completely dollar incense driven in that moment in time and said no. This is an important movie. Say too close so there you have it. Ted thank you so much. I am very well. I'm very excited to have you back. I hope our audience feels the same way. I'm sure they do because you're episodes do well and rightfully so i enjoy our conversations over and out. That concludes our episode on citizen kane. I would love to hear what you think of this. Classic movie must feel free to tweet at movie must spot or email. Classic movie must g mail dot com. You can listen to all our episodes or learn more about the show on our website. Classic movie must dot com support the show and received cool perks on patriotic like becoming a producer of the show. And get your name read at the end of every episode just like our current producers. don hoffman lee eleanor. Be and max on redid. Thank you all for your generous patronage. Checkout all our support tears and the rewards over at patriot dot com slash classic movie musts on the next episode. We're discussing the roman polanski horror film rosemary's baby rosemary's baby is available for streaming rental on itunes amazon youtube and google play. Remember episodes released every friday on all podcasts services. Thank you so much for listening until the next episode. keep up with your classics.

charles foster kane kane thatcher susan alexander orson welles agnes moorehead mr bernstein dorothy common gore rosebud thompson ted walsh susan cain bernard hermann Cain charles foster Kane mr thatcher gregg toland max parrilla nineteen forty one citizen kan
Mad Max (1979) | George Miller

Around the World in 80s Movies

10:56 min | 2 years ago

Mad Max (1979) | George Miller

"Yeah. Hi, welcome to around the world in eighties movies. My name is Vince, Leo. I am the author of the film review website, quit stir dot net. I have to check out over four thousand of my written reviews, covering, all eras, film, equiped, Stor dot net. W P. S T, E, R dot net. While you're there doing courage to click the link to my other podcast. It covers brand movies, either out in theaters or new to streaming at home. You can check that out. It's called the quit Stor film, review podcast. Check out that link at my website quip, stir dot net today. We're going to be shifting into a new three part series, just covered films set in a dystopia in future Delekta into our vision of major cities around the world, and what they might be like sometime in the future with blade runner, Akira, and escape from New York, we're gonna shift a little bit to a post apocalyptic this topiary future, with the next trilogy of films, that are the Mad Max trip. As they once were known, of course, there are four Mad Max movies with the release of Mad Max fury road just a few years ago, but we're going to go back to the original from nineteen seventy nine. So a little bit before the nineteen eighty s with new original Mad Max max is already film does have violence brief language and some sexuality the run time is about an hour and twenty eight minutes. Video releases sometimes run about five minutes longer than that Mel Gibson is two main star with JoAnne Samuel Steve Bisley, Hugh, keys, burn timber NHS Rodger ward and Vince Gill in the supporting cast the director is George Miller, who also contributes to the screenplay along with James Mukasa. Leeann, now an introduction really hardly seems necessary for this the granddaddy of modern post apocalyptic action films. Even if civilization is only on the verge of collapsing here. It's not yet the barely habitable wasteland show. And in the Mad Max movies to come. This is the film that put its star. Mel Gibson on the map as a leading man here Gibson, he was in fairly inexperienced. Actor in terms of films. But he did have training at the Australian Institute for dramatic arts. He pursued acting for the theater stage, mostly he dabbled in some TV as well at the time that he made Mad Max, nineteen Seventy-nine he had only appeared in one film role in summer city that was a side job while he was still in school. Just a couple of years prior to the release of Mad, Max, he was discovered by George Miller when he was dropping off fellow actor for not dish in. He came bruised in a little bit bloodied from playing rugby at the time and Miller was looking for somebody a little bit more rough and tumble asked him to come back for an audition, and he did a little bit more cleaned up. And he ended up getting the lead role instead of just one of the hooligans, and of course, that catapulted him to international fame Mad Max is set in the near future. The words on the screen say a few years from now Gibson here playing the. Of course, tischler max. He's one of the best police officers who works for the M. F P, the main force patrol the patrol fights against the increasingly hostile lands. Full of marauding car, and biker, gangs who really have no regard for life or for laws and especially not for law officers. One such gang of bikers here is led by a psychopath, named toe cutter played by keys burn. He's on the rampage. He's targeting MFE officers who've messed with their way of doing things and that puts all officers in potential harm's way as well as their families. A family man himself max does not know if he's really cut out to put his neck on the line in this losing battle against anarchy soon discovers us, not much, escape, though from the criminal element. That's really permeated everywhere. So it's kill or be killed in the lawless and bloodthirsty territories, Mad, Max here is directed by former emergency room doctor George Miller. He actually was worse. Working overtime in the emergency room in order to pay four the funding to make Mad Max. This was his debut effort, and because it was mostly funded through his own money. This was pretty low budget film around three hundred fifty thousand dollars shot very grilling style around the city of Melbourne. This is a very Roger Corman, esque action vehicle from this fledgling, Australian film industry film, industry in Australia, had not really been getting the distribution recognition, that it had deserved at least until Mad Max. This was a huge smash in its native country and actually would make inroads for AUSSIE cinema in many other parts of the world henceforth after setting. What would be at that time, a world record for the money that had netted at the world box office above its budget, and that record was not broken until twenty years later with the release of the Blair, which project in the United States, though, Mad Max still is not treated as kindly as the rest of the world it was relegated to a very limited release schedule. And it's North American. Distributor American international pictures, and that up over dubbing the Australian accents within the film, with the use of American voice actors and that included the American born Mel Gibson himself, for some of the showings, and that was an effort to make the dialogue in the slang understandable to the movie going public unaccustomed to us, Raelian accidents in the United States, primarily because Australia movies really had not made those inroads previous this. We, of course, understand these accents, pretty well today, because we've seen our share of OSCE cinema since George Miller here, directing this futuristic thriller with an eye towards spaghetti westerns. You have this gritty anti some sadistic outlaws, very wide shots in the compositions. You rarely see this kind of thing outside of the genre of westerns, the tracking shots here from first time cinematographer, David egg, whether it's on the road or on the land. These are stunning to behold. It really gives a feeling of fluidity and very fast action. And at the same time, also showing that there's truly no place to run. Or nowhere to hide within the vast -ness of the outback George Miller who originally conceived of Mad Max as kind of precautionary fable on the dangers of reckless driving because of that background as an emergency room, doctor. He ended up using his skills as a doctor who regularly treated injuries. Whether from firearms or car accidents, any effectively recreated, the realistic looking damage done to human bodies within the film, because of those reckless actions. Miller's -education as doctor really floated into the writing of the movie itself, the last name of Mad Max is rocketing. Sqi that name is based on a noted real-life Austrian physician named Karl von rocketing sqi within Mad Max, a real brilliant use of locales depicting, the desolate, Australian outback and beyond all that, what really elevates Mad Max as a film above being just a run of the mill western in cars is the dropping stunt, work coordinated by grant page that rivals. Many. Big Hollywood efforts at the time. Real-life stunt man rarely used actually a lot of the characters in the background were played by a real life crazy fast driving piker gang called the vigilantes. They were portraying most of Tokyo gang many of the cast, especially the extras where not even paid in money. They were paid in beer for their participation and the use of their vehicles on the roads, really was kind of slapped together with as much bandaids as possible to avoid spending a lot of money. The story here in Mad Max very simple. But it does arrest the attention during the conflicts because of the way that George Miller ends up subverting formula, thriller elements. He prolongs the conflicts into the next scene, and then the next and then even calls back to previous ones, nothing really here is tidy from a narrative standpoint, then that gives the movie a certain edge in a unpredictability that does bode well in its favor. It's a bit rough around the edges to the point where I wouldn't deem, it a great movie overall if you take it in and of itself, especially since unlike. Sergio Leone's spaghetti westerns the score. Here is often incongruous with the nature of the movie kinds of drowns out the dialogue on occasion. I think if it were possible to release Mad Max with a newly composed score that fit in a little bit better. I think I pay top dollar to see how much of an effect that it has on the overall vibe because I do think it makes it a little bit uneven even if George Miller was definitely striving. For more Bernard Hermann ask score intentionally if you're going to catch Mad Max I would say avoid the cartoonish dubbed American version. It's kind of passe today to even watch diversion. The AUSSIE accents are really not close to being incomprehensible to most movie goers in the United States, today and contrary to what the North American distributors may have thought at the time they end up being a lot more intelligible than I think, having to deal with the obviously dubbed versions very distracting. So I would definitely recommend watching it in its original format all even though it is a low budget effort and a bit. Rough. And it doesn't always really compel as much narrative. It is still a propulsed action movie and definitely worth recommending enough for me to give it three stars out of four three stars on my scale means that I do recommend it for this people who, like this kind of movie, certainly, if you're a huge fan of Australian cinema as well as really good, low budget action movies that have great driving scenes and a lot of nasty car crashes, you're going to get your money's worth with Mad Max, but I do think the best is yet to come because next week we're going to be looking at a nother film in the MAC series. Some people consider it the best of the Mad Max series. Although a lot of people have really champion, especially of late Mad Max fury road, which I will not be covering on this. But I do have a review on my other podcast. You can check out and you can find the link to that at my website, quips dot net. Q WIP, S, T, E, R dot net from nineteen Eighty-one the road warrior for next week. So if you're keeping up with the movies, check that out is definitely one. I would highly. Recommend whether you're Mad Max film buff or not. You don't even have to watch the first movie to really understand it just kind of stands on its own, like most of the Mad Max films to be honest with you. It's an interesting film series in that way. So everyone for listening to hope that you enjoyed this review. If you have your own thoughts on Mad Max, you can find my contact information by website at quick, stir dot net. And until next time. Thanks everyone for joining me on this trip around the world in eighties movies.

George Miller Mel Gibson Max Vince Gill United States W P. S T American international picture Roger Corman Melbourne Australian Institute Leeann OSCE Sergio Leone New York rugby Bernard Hermann NHS Delekta Australia
Music in Movies

Brothers On The Phone Talking Movies

34:17 min | 1 year ago

Music in Movies

"Good evening welcome to another brothers on the phone talk in movies. How are you sir? I'm how are you doing good? I'm excited about tackling just weeks the subject matter disproved to be a lot of fun for me hopefully for you as well. This was it was fun. It was a lot of time but it was. It was really much more complicated than I thought it was. GonNa be in terms of the the volume of films that I came up with and just kind of had to narrow it down. Because there's a lot of movies that have incredible soundtrack. So this is how I viewed this. Hopefully I was clear when I when I threw this idea not as I wanted to pick just kind of my favorite films were music. Had An impact on the film that weren't musicals all all all the ones that I picked for musical so you weren't clear at all clearly I'm getting. I know that was very clear. I mean for me. I had to sort of narrow it a little bit too films that I thought had a very memorable main theme and then films that were of the music was so spectacular so memorable and just a character itself but I I really was kind of selfish in this and I picked the ones I liked There are movies that I could pick and say well that soundtrack was absolutely crucial to the film. But I may not love the film. I really wanted to pick the films that I I liked that. I thought it works really well within that I enjoy so keeping that in mind of course So why don't we get started then? I'm excited to hear what this is going to go. I'm guessing we're probably and we may have one overlap. I'm thinking of the ones that I picked. Maybe too I feel like you're gonNA come at it a little differently than me so I like that. I like we agree. Well I like I said I have it two different ways. I have the main theme of the movies that I thought were the best and actually some of them are some of my favorite films to in some not necessarily and then I have films that overall the music is incredible. See I want to? I want to name things that I didn't like those. That was how I was like. Well THAT'S I. I wanted to go for the ones that I enjoyed. Those kind of my favorite uses of music in fell Do you want me to get started. I think you should start anything start. Okay thank you. I'm going to do that Surprised that I would go down this path. A little bit as well From nine hundred seventy eight. This was a low budget film that became a huge hit. Probably was profitable films in history. Really The music in it is incredibly evocative and yes. The main theme is key to the film and it is used throughout entities used to great effect and it is still iconic to this day. She I'm about to say I do not alien now. You're you're you're warm Halloween by Giancarlo. Honestly I that actually was one of an honorable mention for main themes that just a music throughout the film but there's other music that is used throughout the film and it is used to such great effect it enhances the Uranus It enhances Michael Myers In when you hear today I I you know exactly what it is. There's no allusion. There's no way I know that sounds familiar. I think that's a really good pick. I'm going to have to say I agree with you on this. Because this sounds it doesn't even sound like an orchestra or synthesizers. It sounds like a scary monster. It is saying it's it's a this is a character. This is scary. Dude that's coming after you or it is in and I'm not saying that it wouldn't work without the music but it works only better with the music The impending you know suspensive happening all who can music to this. Actually John Carpenter wrote the music. He brought that team. Yeah exactly which is really Kinda neat. Because here's someone you know his film. He had a clear understanding of the film. And therefore who else could better write the music than that guy? It's used it's been used in every subsequent Halloween film ever and it's still as powerful. I think today really everyone knows what that theme is and it really helps push the story along the. It helps with the suspense as I said. So yeah I just think are very few movies that use music more evocatively than that film to greater effect and I. I've always loved that. He used to music and always will. So yes that's that's one of my techs excellent pick. I said thank you. I'm not surprised that's a good one. I went with James Bond. I think the James Bond theme the main thing is I mean if you live in Iraq maybe but everybody's heard that the and what I love about. It's Goldfinger is the film that I picked in particular because you get the main James Bond theme which written by Monty Monty Norman and range by John. Barry what I love about the the Goldfinger especially as you get that thing but you also get the main song which was Goldfinger and what a great song that was for a bond film. And then if that's not enough the entire soundtrack of the film is so great. It's the orchestrations you get so many brassy instruments in there. It's just a really is an awesome. It's a great soundtrack. And it's not necessarily a soundtrack that dated in and yet I in a way it is but it's just it's just a great It's I think it's my favorite bond film. And maybe my favorite bond soundtrack so I went with that one. Yeah that was the one that I thought we would overlap on I think Dr no just because it's all kind of introduced there. Yes in the tone is but I mean. Is there any greater set of music that sets the tone for the character? I it sums up him in a minute who he is. And what's he he's about as cool and Suave and everything that you want their character to be summed up in that music and of course it's used throughout the film to not just you know as as his theme yes. It's a really was for me. I was like yeah. It's James Bond. Just is it's a psychotic still use today. They still Redo the theme. So it doesn't sound exactly the same but retains that James Bond nece. Yes Yeah Goldfinger. Maybe were kind of all came together like I said I went with the original with Dr. No because I felt like well. That's the original. It set the tone was out that none of it exists. But I give you props dot e. gold fingers really is about as good as it gets to it. Yeah it really is James. Bond and become. The music is just synonymous with the film. The character always get to be a great soundtrack. So what what? What's your second? Oh so here's that was so thanks. That's okay that's okay. I had a couple of other ones. That were really important to me Yeah I mean I think I'm GonNa go to baton seventy six It's just a great soundtrack in the soundtrack really has such an impact on the film. Even just some of the minor little themes in. I liked this movie. I I really do in its rocky contract. It took it took one of mine. Yeah Okay Yeah it's just a. It's such a key part of the movie. The music Just you can picture everything when he's running through. The Italian marketing phillies rounded up the steps. We when he goes into the you know he he's ready to fight and he's in there alone in the rank before the it's like everything When he meets Adrian all these things are it's just that soundtrack is great it. Just it doesn't hit a wrong note at all really doesn't no pun intended It's just. It's such a huge part of that film without that soundtrack. That film is now a successful no way. Well it's interesting because that was I picked rocky for the main theme because I thought it really doesn't sound like anything else Bill Tanti who do did it the music it that rocky theme is so it's J- it stands on its own. There's nothing that I think it's similar to I can't it doesn't have a similar style like John Williams. Obviously I mean He's certainly going to be mentioned in this list. I don't know how you could not mention him. But he has a style and you can kind of tell. This just was something. That was really different. I thought so I definitely loved rocky. And even this the soundtrack for the intimate scenes between Rocky Adrian or its role. All those little minor pieces. They're all just really spot on they. They're very subtle emotional And they really help. Impact the scenes. It really is an example of music enhancing film from beginning to end just really brilliant use of music in one of the great. I just think soundtracks that add to the film. Yeah I I at first. It didn't take me long to get to rockies like wait a minute rocky of course like come on. It's incredible. Yeah yeah this is great soundtrack. Now if you're asking me what I think maybe might be. The best overall soundtrack film that was ever made. I would say would be would be star wars to go there and it's not my favorite film by by a long shot but when you look at this film. I'll specific and say the empire strikes back because you've got the main theme reprised obviously of Luke's team you've laser beam. You have the rebel fanfare. There's there's Darth vader's imperial theme March the The force I mean there are Yoda's theme. I mean we remember every single theme right now not watching the film in front of us but when you hear it you know. You've pretty much know what's going to happen. And they are so distinct. And there's so many recognizable themes in in that film. It actually blew my mind when I went back over in review that film so I just thought I don't think I think that is really maybe John Williams. I mean that is his greatest overall. It's I just think that's incredible. I I have a lot of other films that have great teams and great music that I don't think anything tops that that I I had. I had a feeling you go star wars and listen. Y- you can't argue your points. I think for me personally. It's it is worn on me over the years like okay. I don't know why why. Why is Halloween now? Wear on me so much or rocky per se but for some reason starwood seems like yes. I know I know and it hasn't it is. I don't enjoy as much as I used to. I know exactly what it is. It's certainly sets the tone. It certainly fits the movie in. I can't argue that it. It part of the movie success is because those themes so okay. I'll give you that. I will reeser twisted you on that one. Yeah for some reason I I. I don't know I guess like I said it's just kind of worn on me over the years. It's just been too overdone in trust me Some of my other picks you could say the same thing. Yeah but maybe that's why because it is so it is so great. We're so familiar with it. While it is it is is a couple that I think are just a under underrated and shouldn't be really but So all right. Well I've got I've got I've got a couple of things left that for me. That are worse in mentioning. You know I'd almost say it's kind of a two way tie. I'd have to say that I don't know that gets more in. You probably will say what I said about this one. You'll say about the theme. I'm going to say but I think the music throughout once again obviously the main themes what everybody knows but is from nineteen sixty psycho. I just if there's been a better use of music and film that has created. I mean I don't know is all these your sixty years later and it still has the power to kind of stop. He'll let's let the opening credits Everything about Bernard Hermann did the music and Bernard Her music for films and he was really a great musician. A great composer but that's just his crowning achievement is psycho It's just from the minute. The movie opens in the opening theme. It's right there and you know you're in for a ride and I mean during the I mean the on the shower scene. It doesn't it doesn't get any better than that. The music is is a character it truly is a character in that scene it is. You can't deny it I don't I just don't know more powerful use of music with themselves. Then maybe that huge argument for me. Well I'll tell you what it was definitely on my list of main themes and even it made my my secondary list of overall music and film but I- engine rubble between psycho and Vertigo. Because I think vertigo is a hypnotic team. It's really Bernard Herrmann also did Virgo. They both both were great. I think psycho is just a little bit more widely known and the fact that when the shower sequence he. It's so it's so frightening when he first a stabbing her through the curtain. And you just get that little. I don't know whether it's somebody's plucking an instrument or something whatever that string instrument but it's kind of creepy eerie and then of course you know it's just it's frightening Well that's what I'm saying is that it is the it's a character if it becomes a character it really is and it the movie. The music is throughout the opening credits to slam you right away with music. You know you're in for a ride and after that it's just throughout and yeah. I think if you if you really watch that film enlisted throughout the film. It is a key player in that felt totally from beginning to end I once again. I don't know too many films that use music to better affecting you know it's funny some of these films are you'll get a film like Star Wars Kid. Big Grand huge epic film. And then you take psycho or even. Halloween which are more low budget. There thrillers In music is used to such great effect there too I think it fills some of the gaps. Fill some of the holes moves the story along especially when things are moving a little slower to build the suspense. So yeah that's it had to be mentioned a great pick and it's great because like you said Bernard Hermann did several Vertigo. Among them yes So that's a good pick. I like that that makes both that made on my list I had. I had to mention the Godfather again is not one of my favorite bills. But I do think it's an amazing too. Great Film Nino Rota. The they musical composer. I think it's that theme song. Come on I mean that is the way it was recorded it is just. It's just beautiful and it just what I love about a two. Is that it. It kind of makes you. They really captured the period so well I think there's just something about sometimes you don't even realize in the godfather that there's music and there's a lot of tense music when when things are going to happen and if you've seen the film enough times the music kind of just Again it's it. It is a character in the film and and I've just never. I've never heard a score like that. I never heard anything. I've never heard anything quite like that. Music Yeah I mean it is great i. I can't say that I thought of it. It's obvious as it is but when you hear it conjures up all the images beautifully really does. Yeah it's again it's it's it's completely different in. It's one of the to be that James Bond Psycho. These are just I mean we just we get home them and see. If it's a memorable you can come back. But I and I'm talking about the First Godfather Godfather to I definitely think the impact yes is is is the first one. Yeah I would agree with that. I I would Yeah I mean. That's just it's a great thick and once again the music row. They think really sports it. I'm GonNa give you kind of an honorable mention your for. I go with my last one. I think we'll definitely overlap with my last one But the honorable mention one. I don't think you're GONNA have and it's funny. It's been made fun of for years. God knows when I was on the radio. We use this theme to make fun of certain things but it still has the power to move you and to impact you. I watched the film. I'd say maybe six months ago it was on. And it's still a pretty powerful film Deliverance and when you hear Dueling Banjos The images that conjures up is incredible. And like I said it's been parodied so many times but the music is it just puts you right. There is just it really does I. It's it's not one that I thought of right away and I sat really thought about this and I said man when I think about that movie. The music is there. It's right there and you just you know what's going to happen because you've seen the movie when you hear those. Banjos you're like Oh my God coordinate baby but it's so many other things But just a really for me an honorable mention. I just wanted to throw that in there because the music really is very powerful really is and I've always liked that film Once again seventy degree decade films you and I've said this time and time again probably the best decades maybe ever for film and that's a really good movie I off. Let's it's odd. It's but yeah I don't I. It's that's not a popcorn and snickers bar on for me. That's a really tough one lawrence. Well I just I. It's it's just a neat film. I've always liked it. I'm not saying it's one that I could watch every night but I do enjoy that film. So yeah what else do you got all right. I know you're GonNa go with this with the same one I you have to if not I I made disown you okay FAB number. Well here. It comes oh I had with the good the band the ugly because I thought about L. I'll tell you what if you silence put if you put it on mute and you try watching even five minutes that film. It's all Clint Eastwood. Eli while like leave and clips is staring at each other. Yeah and Holzer's damning. That movie is nothing. I mean zero zero without that music. So I mean as as much as we love What's his name Sergio? Leoni I mean that that music is Is it's by any Oh. Marconi is incredible and that is just I loved it again to me like there's nothing I can compare that sound to it. Yeah I mean it's it's it's like it's like when you hear if you're the person that you've never heard pink floyd you've never heard is. I heard a lot of bands and you hear that. Stay sound like no one club there. I mean that song just is the fact that they can make that opening that opening sound sound like like a coyote or something. It's it's incredible. I have a bunch of honorable mentions I could pick trust me. I thought of that one. I really did because. Yeah it's it's almost not even music exactly. It's not just what is it. It's just it is those really understood. The film's really understood happening. They really were able to some of the feeling so beautiful. Yes yeah exactly would feel. It's like it's like Halloween. What is that that that is Yeah EXAC wall together different. I mean I had honorable mentions raiders of the lost Ark. Of Course E. T. And and I and of course Casablanca and gone with the wind. I mentioned that because they both were very sweeping and very large especially with the and they both were composed by Max Steiner Casablanca gone with the wind so I had to mention those and I mean there were so chariots of fire of course jaws. There's just too don't say of course that's the kind of where I well. Well John Williams is just. I mean he's a monster. I mean drastic far. Where do you where do you so so for me? I don't think he's I don't think he talked himself. Jaws to me is the pinnacle I I just when you hear that music. There's nothing like it and it's up there with psycho for me. It's just a it is. Wow and it sounds like the water. That sounds like ominous in the water. Yeah and how he came up with that. It's just incredible. And and of course you know some of the other themes that he used throughout the film are great too when they're out on the boat and it's a very different team. It's it's more of an optimistic. Yes a whole different animal and But still just down it exactly it. Just it's incredible it really is. It is incredible and I think for me. It's his crowning achievement. And I know there are plenty of other films. That people can mention reader. Says he said L? Did you see that film in a theater? You were too young. I was like I was. I thought I thought with with my friend in high school and it was. It was pretty scary. That opening sure where that girl gets it. All very scary. Yeah it was still. It's still is powerful. I watched it with my daughter who loves me. Dogs Drastic Park is great too. But yeah just for me. Nothing tops jaws I'd have to say to the for me. One last honorable mention before you WanNa plow through anything else. I think a soundtrack they've really. It's a movie I don't love but you can't deny the soundtrack and you can't deny that he I know what you're GonNa say I know your you do. I do. I feel like wow if I'm wrong then it'll be mine. Is Saturday night fever? Oh No I wasn't going to say that. Wow that actually. That's actually a really great. Pick that we don't have anything that represents an error a moment in time. That's really that's more like moments that it is and then yeah. That sounds good. Yeah and it really it. Does it sums up that moment in time beautifully. What's happening at that moment of Time It's a pretty gritty drama in many ways It's not white hearted. It really isn't but the music is is just really stunning. As as as much crap as discos taken over the years Like any other form of music when it's at its best. It's really good and you're hearing they're just some of the best. I've ever made at the top of their game. I mean disco. Inferno is come on you. It's a great song. It is a great sign in fact if you want to just get somebody there knowing what that Arrow was like. And what was that? Music that would be the soundtrack that'd be the whether they watch the film or not short soundtrack that that's a really good pick. I in fact my pick was something completely different than that. I went with Goodfellas because we. I didn't think I didn't think I had anything that represented the use of music. That is music. That is all music that we know of. But it was used in a way. I mean. Obviously I grew up in the seventies and remember the Song Lilac Remember I was maybe when I started to become familiar with that song. And there's memories. We have when I hear a song that we grew up with well years obviously had gone by and that was that was the end of it but when that film came out. And there's that scene. I Mean Pink Cadillac and and And Johnny Roast beef and his girlfriend they get whacked. Gatty as you hear those. You hear those cores on that piano. It's like Whoa Martin. Like wow I mean he he might be maybe one of the greatest directors that knows how to use music that has already become popular in whatever genre that that that the music is from. I mean way he uses music very well and it's it's incredible. I mean I had to mention that I could not. I don't even know if that's fair to even say that. It's an honorable mention. I mean I just think it's very different because it's not really original to the film so he kind of went rogue little bit on that one but I see what you're saying it's it's crucial to fill it just not original music. That was made for the phone. The the only thing I wanted to mention was a quick story story that John Williams had a conversation with Stephen Spielberg after. He screened Schindler's List and he said I. I can't do the music to this film. You you gotta get a better composer and Spielberg said to him. Well all the better composers were dead. So you'll have to do. It was kind of funny story. And and so But Yeah I definitely thought that that was another example of another great a very different type soundtrack that that John Williams done yeah. No that's Obviously I mean he listen. He's about as good as it gets he really I. I've always thought did after a while. There was like a thread that you could connect his music. He's just he sounds so John Williams all the time yes Once again it works but it's just you know his you know his style. He's pretty clear what he's all about. Yeah well I mean I will say. Jaw Jaws definitely is like almost like. It doesn't sound like music that that's in our category of like that. That's like the shark is coming to get you. It's pretty it's pretty nasty. It's very Yari well. This was. This was fine. I mean I never imagined that we'd have so many I mean there's stuff that I missed. There is things I was thinking of literally before we started this. I was thinking I'm like shaft. I'm like why God like that. Jack theme the great throughout us. Great one just thinking now. I thought it was literally minutes before we started film but I don't think this is great. It's just it's it's perfect. How how quick. Improvisation Alba death wish the original one all my terrible guitar. I mean that was. That's led Zeppelin right. Jimmy page the to not the original. He does wish later. Oh is that theme. Is that theme for the second one? Yeah yeah and it's a pretty cool soundtrack. It's funny I. I don't even think it's been commercially released. You can't find it anywhere. You can find the songs up on Youtube But yeah there's pretty stuff on there. He he definitely had Definitely had fun with it. And he's a musician he he clearly had a good time making it through some cool guitar stuff on. There is a couple of good songs kind of rock. 'n Rave. Yeah I. It's a shame he never really did that kind of thing again because it was kind of fun. Yeah that was the second one. Yes talk to the original if I think Herbie Hancock d music for the original death which we'll see if I'm right But yeah this was fun. Music and film is certainly something we could go through again. That's for sure. Nee Kinda like your tone at the end the use of other music within film is really neat. So have you ever seen the nineteen fifty eight film elevator to the gallows and say I have not I? I have not either but I. I was discovering this today looking searching for movies with gray soundtracks and it's it's a nineteen fifty eight film elevation galleries. And who does the soundtrack to this miles Davis Quintet? Apparently they had never seen the film and they were. They seen it for the first time and they improvised two soundtracks the entire film. So it's actually kind of cool. I I checked it a little bit about now. I WanNa Kinda see it. But it's hailed is a great it's actually greats great soundtrack so I can never seen it me neither. Yeah I mean. The title is slightly compelling elevator to the gallows yeah I do. Killington did anatomy of a murder and remember that and that was pretty good. That was good music in certainly supported the film. Well that's a pretty good soundtrack overall. Two's good stuff. That Duke Ellington did but that one. Yeah and Ben Hur. They said was the longest film score soundtrack. Ever up to that period of time too long long films it is it is. Yeah Yeah okay well thank you sir. Good topic for this episodes. Excellent was it was fun stuff So thank you again for checking us out. We are brothers on the phone talking movies. And thank you for listening. Thanks for checking out. We'll we'll We'll see soon. We'll see in our third season our third. I'm already thinking third. Our second season is about to start up in a couple of weeks so this is excellent. Thank thank you.

John Williams James Bond Bernard Hermann Goldfinger Michael Myers Rocky Adrian John Carpenter phillies starwood Herbie Hancock Youtube Nino Rota Giancarlo Duke Ellington Stephen Spielberg Bill Tanti Iraq Darth vader Barry
Episode 275: Drag Race Espaa Ep 1: Bienvenidas a Espaa!

Alright Mary: All Things RuPaul's Drag Race

1:01:43 hr | 4 months ago

Episode 275: Drag Race Espaa Ep 1: Bienvenidas a Espaa!

"All right mary important. Gay lay bartow usa today. Well folks turns out drag race. Espana is a total goose palace. Yes conso palace gone gone show palace. Wait let's just double check with all. I took it down. I'll do it. I'll do it. Yeah this so again so there it is. That's what i'm looking for on here from my side. We can do it in stereo. Ready one two three post. So mary's Yeah drag race spain. i. We're going to say spain that you know we know that it's hispania. People are going to be find that obnoxious right. Yeah no. I did it once just to just to make sure people knew i knew but i agree. Nobody wants to hear me. Say espana all episode. Yeah so so. We're going to say spain but yeah no this is. This season is filled with little cocco. Artis little geese little gas sauce. I but you know what. I liked this cup of the week because the translation that it was given to us on while presents. Plus who cares what i do. Who cares what i say. This is me and this is how i'm going to be. I will never change. And there's you know it's the start of pride month here and there's this kind of feeling of things being lifted the sense of freedom much like where you know ripping through our own nets that are holding us down. How prophetic miss nurmi. So i but i did love this. I was just. It was so unexpected. That supremacy was not going to do all. If any of rupaul's catchphrases. I think he only did or she only did one. Hello hello in the workroom. Otherwise you know there's you know maybe the best drag queen win and all of that bright. I was expecting it to continue all the way through the end and and it did not. We got this really beautiful Ideology yeah. I was half expecting there to be some piped in video message from rue you know which i think they did. Maybe on holland. It was like oh there. You are entirely thailand. Yeah are at least finale. They did but in any event there was little to no room which is no dig against room. But i think is more about like oh cool you guys kind of drag race. Thailand can kind of have individual positive qualities and. I thought this is a this. This is a nice little note to end each episode on shore. The and it kind of for me sums up my feelings about this first episode of drag race spain. Where i feel like we're in. We're in a different pond with different No where there's just a different. There's going to be a different tone. There's going to be different perspective. Even from the judging we got a different perspective we got different. Types of drag within the drag queens. I appreciated it while following the same script and format of a drag race season. But there's that twist it's like nope this. We're going to do what we do here. And i did that i was. I was really pleasantly surprised. I was kind of you know expecting like okay. Well you know. We'll see what happens. And we'll see how how it either how it translates in terms of humor in terms of like personalities or just how the production stacks up against other. You know entries in the of their franchises. And i i just i loved it. I just thought it was like the cast was great. The drag was really impressive. The production value was high. The workroom was huge. Ama- god oh my god it just so much space. Oh my god they should drag race space drag racist base spot. Oh my goodness i was. i mean. Supremacy is lovely and charming internet drag. Yes oh yeah okay. So let's just let's let's jump in here. Let some of these specific things that we loved. So because i do want to talk about the judging but let's start with supremacy so i found supremos through granted like there was a little bit of like you mucking up mock with a dilemma but dove by a dove. Dovan saj yeah But his work crews were. I just felt like it was just constructive and helpful and didn't seem it actually seemed like a good opportunity for the queen's when he walked through yes it. It was kind of like tim. Gunn visit like. Oh this is going to be good for me. This is going to help. And i. Yeah i really thought in the workroom or out of drag supreme was lovely and then in drag. I took me a while to figure it out. But i think i'm getting jane creek hausky. Yes and it's making me like her even more she's also giving me an i don't mean visually. I mean the energy of like mom of art aria Yes i there was something. Yeah there's something about it. Where and i think it is. What's fun about these variations on drag race where it's not true hosting kind of settling until like okay. Who were you. who's this. Who's the mother of this house. You know like who's the mrs garrett of this boarding house. So you know i think with holland's i think we. I don't think we disliked fred. I just think it was like okay. I mean we we liked. What's her face more. The one who said blah blah blah. Oh nikki plastic but then everyone told us that nikki plus in was and g. we got feed. I think i heard. I feel like we were alone on that island. Oh well i envy of the critiques. No but it kind of oh my god. This is a chaotic good. You know oh yeah well. It's like yeah. So there's i mean took that other like harry potter judge. I was just like i was gonna say there was the owl woman. Who is the jeffrey moran of drag race. Holland's exactly but you know what's interesting is yes. Soup is great out of dragon than in drag. Certainly with on the judging panel. I just appreciated the energy that the judges were giving the queen's it was very specific and very fashion like very kind of nuanced and an understood which i appreciated anna and her her critiques to hugo. Let's just like you. Let's just say it now like i know. It's probably hookah theo. I probably what it is. You gotta say uber ceo. I'm just going to say because the h i mean you don't need to say google ceo i think google ceo i. It's it's it's it's when i replaced the c sound with the. Th sound the part of the barth alone of it all dumped it. I don't yeah. I think i sound more like mike tyson than anything else. It sounds like you're making fun of it and you know it's terrible. Yeah it's it's abominable. So yeah. I felt like the her critiques of google ceo was like oh yeah okay i see. You won a national fashion. Your long one for sure locking in my love for now is she. She's not going to be a regular. No i think she's i think she. And the two hundred years. Who'd know there's two years. I thought they were both named heavier. It's yawn jalen. No john was john. The motto was the guest. Okay and then. There's air john krasinski are you're right there to hobbies bro. See i did come for you. I'm so sorry your wigs. Yeah yeah night. While i was sleeping. Okay so the two hobbies and soup rim are the main judges that you harvey's supremacy. I think anna are all like every week judges own good. Yeah and then. Yeah then. John christmas kringle. I can't remember this name in. Oh my god that that middle part god bless he is just a guest and next week is someone who looks like someone i would play. He court the harouna yes. He was very very kind. I thought he might like like tried to pull a stuck up santino. Or something was very very kind when he was giving He's like look. I know you spent a lot of time on this. I get all of that. I just don't think it worked. I was like. Oh god. Now i know why supreme wants to marry you you know. Oh yeah i mean yeah and the middle part can stay if it is going to be that the middle part won't matter after my hands are done with it. You know that's true that's true. Yeah that won't be the only the only middle part of him. that's been parted. There's another part. I'm more focused on anyone. All right pig in spanish. I don't know i'll look it up. oh oh here so masculine. Cerrado cerrado sarah. That's me though. Yeah i i thought. The judges were all very kind and constructive and even when they were deliberating. Once as supremacy says that we're a low. I need your strictest opinions even though it was in spanish like i knew what she was going in that moment. Funny hydra and the conversation was like it reminded me of thailand. When they'd get passionate and they'd really get involved the musical episode when you're wait the one judge couldn't even stay seated you know. Just yes penn china for sure always right into it heated yeah. They clapped after the first one. I thought that was so sweet. Yeah it was really. I mean just so much fun. And i and i don't know if this is fair but it's true and we saw this happen with season thirteen and drag race casey's into but like boy did this all put drag race down under into a different light. Well let's just put it down under you know. Did i realized it was like. Oh it's all in the name. Yeah i i love little down under but i I realized it was like. Oh i've been kind of know i've been here nahshon on this footy frank and i could have been having this serano ham over here. Okay you enjoy sorrento him interesting or some pawtucket says bravo's oh my god bravo there. We go there's something we can all agree on. Yeah oh my god. Yes mary now backing up and i know this is going all over the place but have you been spain before yes. I went to barcelona for ten days and seaches. I've been features twice I but barcelona. Oh my god. We went to year dona north. It's a small city north of barcelona Where they filmed a lot of game of thrones episodes and so we went there. And i connected with this lovely woman. This artisan who Makes ceramics. And i still follow her instagram. She creates the most beautiful art. And yeah. I'll never forget your. Because i met her there. Oh my god But yet such fabulous little city easy getting around barcelona though god. We went to the nude beach. I think every day It was oh it yeah. We had the best time in barcelona absolutely the thing. I will remember the most my one of my favorite things about barcelona. We went up of course like the first day. We went on like food and drinking tour end. The one of the things we learned about was sweet. Vermouth that they that most of the like pubs bars or whatever Actually make in house and we drank that before every single meal. We were addicted to it. It is so good so good anyway nash. Mary's barcelona mary's marinas. What is called i. I went to barcelona once when i worked for hornet the trashy gay hookup app and it was fun. I didn't do enough there. I didn't go to his go to the nude beach. I d i. I was kind of like a. I don't really. I'm not here on my terms with my people so i didn't really like deeply enjoy. Enjoy it. But i didn't really get as much of the experience i wanted to buy beautiful city and i would totally go back under different terms. Had a really good charro at a couple of good charles. So real chiro. So yeah you know. We went to flamenco place. And we we specifically asked our tour guide This was also a very memorable experience. Which reminded me of this lip sync to so a mary's. We're gonna circle back to drag racing. Oh yeah we'll get back but we asked our tour guide who god just such a lovely man. We said listen. We don't want to go to like the touristy one we want to go see some really just a great performance of the flamenco music and dancing and we went to this one place somewhere in the city. I can't i can't remember. I think within the gothic area And we were. We were bawling after one of these songs. And there she wasn't even she took a break from dancing Because it was like you know musicians guitarist one was playing the kahan and she sat down to sing and i. The song went on for like six minutes and mary. When i say you like ring out the rag the that's exactly what she did. I will it was. It was transformative and Totally memorable and i just remember being like. I can't believe this ticket only cost me like seven euros. You know like. I got to see this talent and this much passion and it was like a tuesday night. You know what. I mean like it was oh my god you know and so you walk away from that and you're like oh god there's there's probably so many moments like that in the city and you could say the same thing about like new yorker madrid all these other cities because i know people love madrid. I was dying to go to madrid. We just couldn't afford it at the time because we had to stay somewhere up there but anyway really enjoyed barcelona. Well maybe maybe eventually our european tour all right mary. European tour might at least stop at seaches hoping row definite role a stop at a pump and dump and pump and dump and ziege's. That'll be only mary episode so mary. Let's talk about the speaking of ringing up the rag. Let's talk about lip sync and then you know. I think i want to talk about the link from a medical standpoint. Not to get too too specific but i think it's worth starting here too because it also reminded me of kind of what we're gonna see this season. If this was the first lip sync mary. I don't think. I don't think i'm going to be disappointed. At the end of every episode. I could not believe it. This was such a fabulous song just the meaning alone and then also just like the drama of it. Her voice was incredible and it was something that a drag queen could really sink her mouth into and for both of these queens one of them more in particular mock dana was it was just so inside of her it was it was in her each digit of her fingers. That's how inside. This song was inside macarena and i really loved her lip sync. It's just unfortunate. That her wig came off because then i think it was like oh well then what still vima doing. And and then dove ema started ripping through the the nets. And you're like okay. This is a show and this is fabulous so for dove ema. I'll give her the show. And then for macarena i'll actually. I'll give her the lip sync. I think i agree. I think that you know in terms of lip synching fair life ringing out the rag all that stuff that we love i thought you know the muck arena was given me much more than the mock arena you know and dove ema i it was. It was a little low energy for me. It was six right. Yeah yeah and the face and that's what was really about. It was like. I just don't feel like i'm getting. I'm getting the full getting it. All you know like a turn up the juice shakes loose over my you know and i that was kind of my so it was like a little disappointed but i also kind of knew going into this lip sync. It was like no dove and savage. Got the. They've got their their perfect strangers roommate situation that we still need to explore next week. So they're not going to send your home yet. We still need to know what the fight over the man was. you know. yeah it was like single white female over there you know. Yeah i just lose. Where someone's going to high heel in the i before the end of the season let's just hope there's no dogs involved so i will say the other reason i was kind of okay with macarena leaving by the end of the episode. I got what i always wanted. Which is the camp of leaving angry. I go the performance of leaving. Angry is it. Was this just this low hanging fruit. That's been it's just been there for so long but for somebody put on. No i'm going to be really upset when i leave. I just think that is brilliant. And that makes for a great drag show and then pulling back. This is drag race spain. All in the first episode. We got a great lip sync and we got a very sweet moment when she's like no. I feel really really proud and can you you fly. You know that was so yeah. It was so good. I think that the own and it was certainly not the same but the only other example of this that i can think of. And it'll come as no surprise who did a little of this myths darien lake. She was top four admitted it was like you know she was be moving on. She walked past the other girl. I think she was like get away like she was like. She performed a bit of disgust but it was much smaller different. But i love it. I love the idea of like play. That part of the pageant. Because i think that's also like whenever you watch like beauty pageants or anything. Chris asia mary. Yeah it's all about watching the runners up runner ups face trying to hold that smiling knowing that there's just so much underneath and driving democracy a really leaned into that and you know she ripped flamingo. Offer shoulder oh. My god know you think of a even a coco peru in on fu right like. There's like just panting to her. That is so part of the pageant is seeing an upset loser. Like i just love all of that and so for and i will. I will give credit to jimbo. Jimbo did do this towards the end like he went by when he went out. Yeah that's true. You want that. And i remember i remember brought this up when dalia sin went home. I'm like dalia. Why didn't she just lean into this. And yeah it just would have been more interesting but That's drag race pain that can nutshell And why. I'm really excited about the season. Those those types of things. I also appreciate. We can kind of go a little bit earlier now into the episode. The music that they edit in reminds me of drag race thailand right because they have the cha-cha rich. Oh yeah they definitely gave cha-cha bitch some love. There was also a moment of requiem for a work room. Did you notice that part where it was requiem. Frigeri music only got with that. I don't know but i was requiem for a dream. Oh always dancing. I just danced. I was because that. Is i mean a pepper saying the strings. Yeah oh i know it's so good. That is probably the best movie scores. Ever and so anywhere watering south korea. I think it is. I think it is especially being one. That's relatively new in in the history of movies. I'm like no. I think that's that only girl okay okay. I don't want to argue on. We could save that for only married. I mean i listed. There's been there's john. There's john williams through his allen sylvestry know you love him. there's the league of their own soundtrack. I'm not even talking about that. what are you talking about. We'll because you think i'm talking about all of these cheesy movies and john williams and all that but like you know i just a i mean. It's a big statement to be like no. That's the best one. That's the best but i think it's in the hall of fame of like great movie scores. Yeah for sure for sure. The one that immediately comes to mind that. I think does something similar to requiem for a dream but even more nuanced in its execution is bernard hermann score for psycho which i know you absolutely. I just watched a movie yesterday. It's this like weird too early. Brian depalma movie called sisters With margot kidder. But it has. This great bernard hermann scar. Oh my god stupid. Good highly recommended. Okay if you just google the main theme it's so good The other one that comes to mind is philip. Glass's candyman score. Which is i just think. It's at a peak. And i wouldn't be a white gay if i didn't say and the hours will marry let you know Let's talk about chow bitch. Let's talk about these. These queens were myung a new crop ten. We can kind of talk about their looks as we kind of go through this cast of characters We should maybe start with macarena because She did go home she did. I thought she was a lot of fun. I i thought she was. I thought she had great commentator energy. Okay well we lost you there but boy did she did she fill out this episode. She did and you know. Has a queen ever brought food before mimi. I'm i brought cookies. I know and i think it would mean well. Guess what johnny did. And maybe even she brought more for all stars one but you know well i do love that. I love that idea right. Like i'm gonna bring food we. Can you know pretend to eat this. You know yeah. Oh i love it. I think any time someone shows up with a tupperware. That looks like it has bars in omen that you had to cut out of a cookie sheet. I saw a picture of some like memorial day barbecue that somebody had and they kind of showed a picture of their picnic spread and there was some tupperware and i was like i was like kind of like the that new. Like get the shoes. Baby get the shoes. I was like get the bars baby. Get the bars like. Let me see those bars. Oh wow you are. You're a special goose. Mary gone so yes very special. Gone so the mock arena she. I didn't mind her look. I don't think anybody it's just when you know. She's in comparison to everybody You know somebody has to be in the bottom and you know it's just unfortunate that that that's what it was It was simple. She had some kind of like index card or lake mattress pad. Bruce label stuck to the bottom of her of her dress. I think that was a problem. Sure sure it. Hey i mean who am i to pass judgment the things i've had stuck to the bottom of my dresses. Well right all those dresses. that's correct. Yeah it's mockery of the one that says fag lot. Who's the one. That guy says fagged. Somehow 'cause i guess the word in spanish and i'm going to struggle the only way how to say it is the way that danny de vito says in a romancing the stone is he goes marry like that's how he says it on. I think okay mini con. And so that i feel like it's it's a it's tim ler similar but i feel like it's probably use the way that hey girl. Hey girl hey bitch you know. I don't know spanish. Mary's you know help us out like this is where we need to lean on our spend like. I wonder if you can say like you know how straight women also say. Hey girl hey bitch you know like they say that to And you know it. It still undecided. If gay men were copying straight women are straight win or copying gay men right. It's like downward monica. Seems very queer used as a slur against sure. Absolutely like i'm all for. You know i used to be against reclaiming fag and i've in the in the last couple of years i've come to love the word fag and kind of appreciate it and recognize what it means my definition yeah So i love it. Because i feel like there were so many subtitles or it was like move at fag. Hey fag oud girl fag. I'm going to get this shit together. Like it was but she does say it a lot. Yes okay so that was. That was macarena. You know the other thing about mark anina dana. I'm going to say macarena. okay. I'm just not gonna i'm not gonna juicing girl you decide you're you decide. How many spaces. You wouldn't put on mild police so mockery Also brought up. You know the fact that that there. And i just you know just to see like as a show of hands who who identifies as n. b. and you know. There were four queens. That were like me. Which is that. We've never seen that before. First of all just to look call it out. Roll call it and then also and then also move on right from it right to have that quick kind of hey yeah no people miss gender me all the time because i present as male. But i'm nb right. Who else is nb for other queens. Really you know just an interesting social justice work room moment. Yeah i thought it was. It was interesting. I mean we kind of talked about this when we the last episode of drag race down under. But it's like the hearing those conversations about gender and gender identity that does still feel kind of fresh in general and drag race. So it's like the even just having that basic conversation of like who's non binary in the room and like you know. I don't wanna say normalizing it but kind of making it something that is almost like an expected part of the room either but just like a part of the room out and proud. You know there's something to be said about like being able to proudly and unabashedly be like. Yeah no that's me. I think that's powerful right to the point where you know in mixed company. I might not feel comfortable raising my hands. Were who's gay in here totally right but to even say like well. Who's a boy in here right like it's it's it. It should be as simple as that. Yeah what kind of a moment of like you say there was kind of like. Oh my god look. There's three more of you like. I thought that was kind of a nice moment of like. Oh that must feel good to be like. oh batch. we're i don't have to be like oh. Is it just me. You know. I was but then it was like no big deal and it was all just kind of a the conversation kind of then evolved to you. Know shoutout to our moms being queer kids which i love the Yeah shout to the moms We've talked about mom's on all at mary enough but Mom's raising gay sons is a very special relationship. Yeah i love that. It came up in the first episode of drag no with nt. Nt story was one of my favorites. You know the grandma's like your son's faggot. No he's an artist to right. When i love the each had like i think it was something like feather fan and i think it was carmen. There were these dolls that she made. And she's yeah yet. If markers and then sagittarius one of the you know the south maria bells shoes and it was like we all have that thing that was like oh that was that was the queer thing to do or i got to have been like that that moment of validation as little quevedo that i'll never forget. Uh no that's absolutely right. That's absolutely right. What was the moment when somebody let you out of your gender box you know and it was usually your mom that it was like. Yeah i'll give you the barbie doll you know and then your dad gets upset about it right. Sorry i'm getting personal for me. It was my mom. Making the the the witch for halloween for sure and it was like all right. Then you can be a which. And and i never forgot it and i fucking love that costume and i don't have a memory and of course as you know very young so i had not fully learned shame yet but i. I don't have a single memory of anything other than loving wearing the witch costume. Never a moment of. Oh my god. People are seeing the in the witch guys. What are they thinking is okay for a boy. It was fucking wonderful. I loved every picture of me and the witch costume. I'm thrilled to bits fabulous. So so but anyway the the sorry side. Note here because we're in the seem. I have never heard the soundbite before high fashion label high fashion. Yeah i was like where is this been. Why is this not a runway the lake. Oh i love it. I bring it to the runway. Run run runway is it. Is it high fashion label. In that song. I feel like it might be I'm going to search high fashion label ru paul and hopefully something will come up. There's a song called high fashion labels. Okay so then okay. Great make sure that song. I hope there's no ad The the other thing sorry virgo so the market ena the marketing i i love it is it. The is she is the mockery. She's a vixen. The vivian in princess and out queens. Are there in holland. I can't remember no peru no. I don't think there was but you know. So here's another queen. The market and i really appreciate of haza. Hey hey exactly so. let's talk about. Let's talk about dove. Ema start of already talked about her Yeah let's let's round out our delvina thoughts. I was very excited when dove ema walked in the room. Because when you walk in and say someone ordered a whore already. I'm gonna be happy. You know what. I mean ringing a bell i mean yeah it was a we certainly a a strong entrance. I feel like do vima. I get this is going to evolve but right now. There's kind of this vibe of like. I'm not like other girls like there's a little bit of that a flaking you know. Loosen up is the bowl of funds. Soup sure yeah. No stress little stress balls over there. I think d'alema's having you know Imposter syndrome Like i don't belong here. I can't believe i'm here. Or what is this right which i think will evolve. We'll see if dove ema and saj become friends or if they're drama is actual like cocoa and elissa drama. You know it. Sounds like they fought about a guy. I mean i don't know i'm sure they're over it but it's just like a convenient narrative bring into the room so i'm fine with it i because i can't hold back anymore. I wanna talk about vulcano. Oh my god my god. I rag volcano erupted all over me. Data's oh erupt inside of me. I want to just be flooded with magma. I just yeah feel it on my skin though. You know like. I want to do that first before i allow it to be in me. You know by the end. I just want to be human pompeii. Yes i just. There is something about that. Big sweet auks of a guy. Where i'm like ma ma make kryptonite. He is lake first of all. I'm i've heard of the canary islands. But now what's going on in these canary islands. Because when sagittarius was like. Oh yeah when a canarian queen comes in your butthole just goes and i thought okay my butthole did the opposite. When i saw volcano. I i certainly appreciate. Ah a an anal response to dry volcanic. There you go no. It's very relatable the anal response. I don't know what that meant. I don't know why she said that. I think that she is like the little hunting around. i did. i think One of the things i saw was and obviously spanish. Mary's we'll help but it sounds like queens for them from the canary islands. Do some pretty drag lakes big headpieces. Inc cod pieces at big shoes. Yeah well she certainly had those big ox shoes. I check my goodness. I was poopie being carried around like mommy. Mommy like oh. Yeah that i would have been the same thing to have a seven foot tall beast. Just seems like a real sweetheart of the same. I really like my shit up. Yeah artist wonderful artists. I was getting very bjork in bio feely mode you. Can you can look up bjork by affiliate kind of get what i mean. There's just this and maybe it is. Because of you know drag volcano. It's like the name also Is very bjork. Biofuel a- ryan but was was just totally taken by that sweet energy by the edit of this episode. I do wonder if we're going to get a lot. More of jaguar o'connell because we didn't get much or if we're not i felt like she was more of a supporting character this episode. But i'm i'm expecting this just because we'll get more in future weeks. It's interesting. that bjork has an album called volna. Cura also yeah drag vulne cure over here. I m yes she. I in terms of drag volcanoes. Look it was. It was very kind of carnival to me I thought it was fine. It was safe. It was a little bit on the lower side for me. I could have seen her be in the bottom. Yeah i can't say that dragged kind owes looks cano. I i got real american there. I can't say that her looks were what. I was focused on this week. I think this is not not quite a pizza. Queen more of like a hot pizza guy queen. I don't care what you look like. Just take it off you know. Wow okay all right. yeah. I don't know i'm having some strong feelings. I will say there. I mean if we're gonna talk about just the looks and in these queens say ninety nine to one hundred percent of these contestants. I would not kick outta bed. There are some very there. Some gorgeous geese. There's some gorgeous says in this room but spun of some pizza queen energy. I do wanna talk about around set. A iran. iran is rancher around. Can i get some of that. Iran is still is on. The top of this runs around. It's not a ron ron sanchez-vicario is a tennis player. That's when i first learned about this iran. Okay well thank god. Thank god that we had that moment and this is gay. You know No i wanna talk about this gone so because coming in i like little or finance and twenty s. I'm just totally taken. She's going to be great tv. You know another nba in the room like totally feeling this with the bangs bangs. I i love that. The whole episode basically starts with her blessing herself. And saying here we go. It was like such a great note to start the episode on and and she does feel. There's something about her like every time you would cut back to her talking heads like i just. I'm getting strong pizza. Queen vibes that. Like i want a lot. More of iran circuit de la mancha. And the fact that she was so happy and excited whenever anybody walked in the workroom their energy. That's there i mean. She was a little shady during the runway when she she was like. I have to clean up these stains on the runway. I appreciate upon but over there stainton. I missed that line. Well she was talking about. She's gotta clean these stains on the runway. Meaning the other girls. Oh i see all right well you know it's fine no matter. Yeah no but yeah no a sweet little goose gone so and the look was fine. It was fine. It was filed was her energy that came through. That may be like okay. No i really love you. Yeah yeah and i guess. She loves the prop because she entered with blow dryer. She had a bubble gone on on the runway so You know i i. That's just something. I've noticed whenever a queen like that. A blonde blonde bangs drag queen. I always go to god. i'm gonna janice from the muppets. And so she gave me a little bit of janice when she get him. Have some strong janice vibes. Yeah but i yeah. I really liked her. And then the other kind of pizza queen vibe. I'm getting is from food. Come on poopie. oh oops. i'm loving pu allah poopie. I just love we. Oh i love poopie. So much i love. I love rooting for poopie. Come poop some potty. Be poopie has poopie has great lake. My mom asked me to pick you up from school today. And her she are. Your mom asked me to go from school today. Energy like she's got that lake that neighbor lady energy. I'm really into now. What you know about poopie. Apparently she has a career coming into this. And so it's like you know. I didn't research that part of it. I didn't know if you knew anymore. I didn't either. But i got the impression that judges are all very familiar with her like she was. Maybe this is kind of like you know with drag race down under its art. Simone know where it's like okay. You're you know you're somebody okay. I hope that we get to see poopie at least through some sort of comedy. Challenge like Snatch game or a stand up or something so that we can. Because i think that's where her chops are. I just did a little bit of quick searching. This is not poopie first time on tv. Okay poops was on got talent espana and the spanish reality show. Ken kinetic yeti kasich could saw. Oh boy don't who wants to marry my son. Why didn't realize there was a translation who wants to marry my son. She also gained public attention due to her viral song. Putin they're bid narrow. Okay great there. You go djing for everybody. I'm just reading it from the rupaul's drag race dot fandom dot com wicky so blame. Them is one of one of my favorites. I think this season not just because of her name but because of the energy that she's bringing in the workroom. I just appreciate it. Yeah poops is given me a bit of sri ally energy from drag race. Thailand's oh yeah. Yes that's so right on nap -solutely We want to talk about killer queen. Yeah let's your topic killer. Queen was also a bit of supporting character. This episode really think you know. I mean i got the takeaway that she's a doctor and she runs for phase and i thought well it's great to have you in the room for those two reasons right right. Especially during the pandemic times buffets or a high risk activities. So it's good to have a doctor in the room absolutely. I didn't quite get where she where her what her drag is yet. I'm still you know. I don't know yet. Yeah yeah i this is more of like. I guess i'll see more later but right. Yeah this was. She was yeah. I think she had to talking heads so there wasn't much to say so you know we'll catch you on the flip side killer queen. I really loved and i was surprised. That wasn't in the top. Because i really loved tease. Look into who's twenty is is just a baby. Yeah so is a baby in t is originally from. Bolivia grew up in madrid now lives in belgium and his on drag race and carries around a very interesting pers. Oh yes yeah. The the the intersex purse that she had put that on a topac pinhas or two common girl. I mean i don't i nod issue. I don't have a problem with. I can understand a wanting to bring new genital to the to the accessory world tied. Just love penises to comment. I just think that's so fabulous. Just the idea of that comedy. And it's like a is like oh what a commoner of as sick. that's what that's what it means base this arse obeys exam into mt and yeah her. Her story in the workroom was also just very sweet yeah and the thai look girl. That was who that was cool. That was i liked it. I don't know if i loved it. But i liked it. Yeah yeah i think. I liked in tease workroom. Look when they were just wearing like a kind of doing this like wednesday. Addams mortis your atoms thing with that. Like black lace dress. There was a moment of that that i appreciated but You know I'm sure we'll see a lot more of inti in t- and then carmen carmen. Who won the the rodeo arm in. Yeah one the the bull riding mini challenge carmen in drag. It gives me she. She looks like a model in a trim spa ad and that's not necessarily a read. That's a very specific kind of lake lady sexuality that i let i love it. It's a little. It's kind of like i don't know like diet pill models like there's something kind of tan and gone and sometimes muscle e but there's okay. Yeah all a little off about it put. I also love how trashy it is. You know her trashy that's interesting. Her trashy i find trims by ads trash has look. I kind of like her. I think that she's i mean the look on the runway. I always like holy mac. And i know i was expecting way more. I will say to d'alema's point like and we've heard this and said this repeated this on like project runway. When it's like you know you have this rummage sale challenge and you're using the fabric there. There is something to that. Of course she's going to be able to create something gorgeous out of fabric right but yeah. Oh my god. It was perfect. I mean she lined it. You know like girls the moment you the woman you line the jacket like a one one of my favorite project. Runway looks season eight the challenge. That mondo won the print challenge that sort of infamous my favorite episode. But he lined the jacket. And i remembered the moment i saw that lining. I was like. Are you kidding me. Are you kidding me. He pointed it out didn't he. Yeah carmen you know what i gotta say carmen. I was living for this episode. Because if i were to pick another clip of the week it was gonna be this. It was gonna be carman's entrance because she comes in and she starts saying things like you know. I wears things as if were saatchi. I believe they are for sake. I sell them as if they are for saatchi. And i'm like girl that is the fantasy that is how you win in the world. I can do it. Oh my god like if only we could just everything that we do just believe it is the best thing in the world that that i think is just such an interesting way to be an. That's how she is and this was her first runway. I can't wait to see what she brought. I like the idea that she's for saatchi. Made in china counterfeit for saatchi. That's that's more interesting to me 'camorra hall whose actual bob macky right. I wanna see. Yeah i wanna see your channel dress not your chanel dress right. I wanna see latrice al in. Aj and the queen counterfeiting the gucci person. Oh right oh. I forgot about eight hundred and the queen the so many seasons i forget but carman i appreciate it. She is kind of giving me something of a villain vibe. For in terms of reality show a dunk on her lot. Like girl lookout orange. You fucking look right. There was like yeah. I think. I think if she's the villain it's it's pretty there's no clause they're running me and right. Yeah it's just pawing and then so i guess we're kind of in our tops and bottoms here right in terms of the episode Because then we're getting into sagittarius sagittarius. Look girl i. I mean i mean i i normally want there to be you know a lot more in a look right. I'm not usually impressed by minimal. But this was so well conceived this. Yeah this was plenty. I loved it. I thought and what i love the most about it was the look was all kind of futuristic but then the hair in the face were kind of like there was something i dunno twentieth century about it. You know it was like oh. I love that. There's a contrast you're you're not playing space age from head to toe right. It was kind of like Like an old sci fi movie where it's like people are wearing spacesuits. But all the women still have bob's and makeup and so. I love that there was a bit of that i i thought it was thought it was really interesting. She's she's kinda queen that i'm like i want to write off like oh. She's young and bitchy right. she's young guinean bitchy. Yeah but i'm usually wrong about that. So i think probably wrong about that here as well. I will say her talking. Heads were very bitchy They're like they kept showing all of the bitchy comments from her. We me that they're going to paint. Heraeus the young bitch. But i'm living for the look so you know near is that there is that she was great. But let's bring on. I don't know. I think my front runner. I think my favorite. I gue- ceo is. I mean took to say. I'm wearing yellow scien- magenta because i'm always ready to print. I'm just like okay. Yeah okay now we talk about is the idea that she's always wearing a frame around. Your face is that something that we should come to expect from ugo ceo. Is that what it was like a frame or a picture. Yeah yeah okay. Yeah i guess so. Yeah i mean she. She doesn't have it in her. You know like promo look. So i guess august yes so i don't know i guess we'll find out but i know i guess i'm seeing other pictures where no i'm seeing a lot of frames. You could say loves a frame. So we'll see i just this character this crying character. We've seen something similar with kimchi yesterday. Priming clowns this. I feel like was. It was just a fresh br not a fresh perspective. I was another perspective. It went even further to clown and then but she also made it fashion right. I just was like so into this moment. It was very drag race thailand in the sense that there was such a story in every single piece of their look and i was living for this. I'm so happy that they won. I was really happy that they won. Because i felt lake. Carmen was kind of the easy choice and kind of felt. Like if if you say wins than like oh. I think the judges are there than then. I'm not giving them enough credit. You know what i mean like. I think that like the fact that they kind of appreciated like okay. No this isn't a quote unquote prettiest. Look but it's the most interesting and of course anna just like broke it the fuck down. I was like oh my god. Well i argue with that you know. Yeah yeah yeah so. I mean sure carmen. Had she had the bag lining. I get it but and tears no right. They were saying at the end like. Oh we'll both are interesting. Choices both have some evolving to do. I think google ceo has less evolving to do than carmen in terms of what they're bringing on the runway. I agree and i think google is the one. I'm more interested to see every week. Say what they're gonna look forward to it absolutely Yeah i i'm really you know because sometimes you see drag like that and you think oh no is this gonna like. Is this going to fit and it. So it's kind of lovely when in fact that kind of drag wins the first week. It's another good omen lawyer. Such of a lor didn't know nina bonita brown one nina one. Sasha got good marks but nino one that first week yeah. Thank god nina. I love nina. Bonita brown An all the painting she did. Yeah okay so. I'm wrong. I was gonna say it's like sasha Winning the first episode. But she didn't it's interesting back and think about the first episode winners. It's not as consistent that it's going to write somebody going far. It's not like a top chef or project runway. It's different drag race. Yeah i think. I was just thinking of drag race. Uk and it was like steinemann. Delo one the first challenge then. She went home the next week. So o stena. Oh my god. Yes jacket basis yeah and a sauce or nay sauce if you want to regional about an sauce and a jacket Yes so that is our. I don't know who i'm i'm excited about. Iran's ah rhonda. Just because i kept thinking ranch so i want to just get a writer. Pay the price but yeah. I don't know who i'm rooting for yet. But i am excited about poopie excite about iran. so i'm excited to certainly. I'm excited by volcano. And say oh i just wanna see every say yeah. Yeah so but. I am so pleasantly surprised by spain. I i really to be totally honest with thinking. Oh god i don't have time for spain. This year is too many other seasons. I got drags down under to focus on. And now that spain's here i'm like. Oh oh i didn't know i could happen so nice so you know. I'm i'm excited every week. I'm i'm ready to bring on some drag race espana. Yeah he said at one more time. Espana spun you there you go i i yes. My feelings are very similar. I also appreciated the judging in the sense that i think the tops should have been the top. The winner who. I wanted to win one. That always kind of helps when the first episode. Kind of establishes like. Hey we get you fans. We're gonna do this. You know a little bit easier. We're not gonna make the rules as we go would i have put macarena and dove ema in the bottom. You know i think so maybe not vima. And it was a little simple with the net and the hose. And that's kind of it like she put on a hose and then put an ad over it and it's like well she did less than poopie. You know i mean really poopie. Come on poops and poopie think was giving the judges pizza queen energy or it was like well. I love your look but you made me really happy. And she filled the brief. Like that's the other when walked down. I'm like okay rummage sale. This is fine like shower curtains. She's cleaning the runway. It was kind of a mess but it was campy as camp should be so. I appreciate it poopie. It didn't take itself seriously. No no and i think you're name's poopie. You don't wanna get too serious agreed. Well mary i think we're ready to end it. There mary's out there. If you're listening if you have any thoughts you can reach out to us on twitter at all right. Mary or you can email us at all right mary. Podcast at dot com. You can also find us on the web at w. w. dot all right mary dot com or taste of reality dot com slash. Alright gosh mary We are also on instagram. Johnny also and on twitter at donnie. Also one and of course you can hear more of me and my other podcasts in the details celebration of nuance or supporting podcast. Celebration of best supporting actresses and you can find more of me on twitter at colin drucker instagram contractor underscore. And you can get more of both of us including our drag greystone under recaps our drag race hall of fame episodes all at hatred dot com slash. Alright mary all right mary in honor of ugo. Ceos great win this week and the fabulous lip sync. I thought it would be appropriate to have our last chance lip sync. Be one of my favorite lip syncs ever in film Which is giordano from the film. mulholland drive. If you haven't seen that scene just watch the scene. It's absolutely outstanding. And i love the song it's a cappella so it's a little jarring but i think would make a really great lip sync for a queen at eight o'clock. You know what i mean. I n mary just so you know. I thought long and hard for the macarena to be our last chance lip sync and i was defeated So just so you know I know i want to marry. You know the premise of that song isn't she. She sleeps with her boyfriend's two best friends when he's gone like they all want me. They can't have me. I'm trying to remember the lip the lyrics that i was doing the macarena to at our halloween. I don anna's party people's aunts dance to at a wedding with their moms and the kids and those are the lyrics. The lyrics are like yeah. My boyfriend left town. And then i fucked two best friends like i just. I love that good for her and there is. There is a dance that anybody can do. You don't even have to stand up to do it like kind of wedding. Yeah no absolutely. You don't have to stand up to you kinda do because you have to put it on your button shake and then turn right you can modify rakes can put your hands on the edge of the chair and then you can turn the chair you know number. It's good to do the macarena in an office chair. I'll tell you that. Mary's thanks so much for listening and Welcome to drag race. Spain we will see you next week for more thoughts and discussion idaho. Marinas us Go who he. The duma nam he is looming though the the two scenes though or and Send the who so jordan jordan own georgia asphalt to judaism.

barcelona spain bernard hermann madrid conso palace cocco google nurmi thailand holland Dovan saj jane creek hausky mrs garrett nikki plastic jeffrey moran mary John christmas harouna Cerrado cerrado sarah nahshon
Wednesday 25 September

Monocle 24: Midori House

26:27 min | 2 years ago

Wednesday 25 September

"You're listening to Molecules House View Fest Broadcast on the twenty fifth of September Two Thousand Nineteen on monocle twenty four. This is molecules house view coming up today the people who came along with did not wish to be seen as divided into this camp and that they were saying this is law. Amaral speaking together and I think that's really interesting whatever was going on their personal thoughts on different things. We'll put aside to sense that law really does matter my guests. James Rodgers and Steve Crawshaw will discuss the importance of the supreme in court in politics and in public life and take a longer look at some of the day's other news stories including with Brazil telling the world that the Amazon is nobody else's concern concern and China dictating terms on Hong Kong. We ask how sovereignty even works anymore in a hyper connected planet and we debate the role of the US in protecting journalists working abroad plus Boris Johnson Company flying back from New York to face the music that will likely now sound like Bernard Hermann strings for psycho. Okay the latest opinion from our editorial floor. I'm Andrew Mullah manacles house few starts now. Welcome to the show and I up we will be taking a look at the day's big stories with Al News Panel it today consists of James Rogers lead in international journalism studies at City University in London and Steve Crucial Policy and advocacy director at freedom from torture now it has been quite the week four supreme courts here in the UK. Okay the country's highest legal authority ruled the prime minister suspended parliament on false pretenses in Spain meanwhile the Supreme Court ruled that the remains of largely largely unlamented dictator Francisco Franco could be assumed to be removed from their present repose mausoleum to a less venerable cemetery Franco's whose family had objected to this. The point of the judiciary in a democracy is that is supposed to be above politics but as we are seeing in both cases people people in politics affect not to see it like that is a genuinely impartial supreme court really actually possible Steve. I guess I every person in the world has ideas and judges have ideas and they have they are they are thinking about and I remember hearing a senior South African judge one time saying you know who are the judges you think of most historic being important and what it came down to his story was wasn't the brilliant legal finessing necessarily appoints but actually they were driven by kind of sense of humanity in that came through so that that clearly is true but I think what is staggering. Were many many things staggering met. This judgment is the fact that we had all all eleven unanimously in other words pretty much by definition including different political philosophies amongst them but sharing the sense of the rule of law matters and we need to send that really strongly so the people who came along with did not wish to be seen as divided into this company dot com they were saying this is law. Amaral speaking speaking together and I think that's really interesting whatever was going on their personal thoughts on different things will put aside to sense that law really does matter James. I think it's fair to say that the response from a lot of the he pro brexit British media this morning has been somewhat less nuanced than than Steph's disquisition there how genuinely dangerous Chris or poisonous is it and I think we should observe in the house within the last few minutes infanticide to him. the Attorney General Geoffrey Cox has issued a general warning adding to everybody including MP's against impugning the motivations of the Supreme Court justices he has said with the judgments we can be robustly critical with the motivations we cannot yes. There's been a particularly poisonous atmosphere in this country in the last few years since the brexit referendum in the summer of two thousand and sixteen we've had newspapers the Daily Mail for example referring to judges as enemies of the people over previous ruling which they gave which is there is an amount of that in near this morning aid need and I think it is a it is extremely poisonous to them. I think it's also reflected in the responses we've seen in the media and indeed on social media and indeed in politics the attorney general's words just cited at are rare voice of Ofcom of measured calm one might say because it seems that one's opinion meaning of this is largely by political opinion rather than ones legal opinion and I think that's a I think if we look at some of the opinion polls that have come out in the last twenty four hours that tens largest confirmed that so the idea that the law is supreme is to some extent I think being pushed aside by people want to their political views of supreme. I mean that's that's absolutely correct. Isn't it stays the same people kicking off this morning about a betrayal of the people's will and so on and so forth if the shoe was on the other foot and the Supreme Court had ruled against a Labor government which had attempted to suspend parliament for its own ends the same people would be trumpeting this as a great moment for the upholding polling of the book of Britain's law wouldn't they of course absolutely and I think that's what's important is a fear that some on the other side might also be critical of the judges and I think it's incredibly important to to accept the fact that in a country of the rule of law we are privileged new kate living. I mean I've I've worked and lived in places where simply is expected court. What do the bidding of the government and without exception those have been problematic. I think an amount of experience of places like that does invest in people a more profound respect perfect for such institutions and people who haven't visited places exactly right he's striking that places even in difficult places. Those judges will manage often at considerable risk. We've now got a situation. I mean to say that the media so divided incredible at one of the papers the Daily Mail this morning has headlined Boris Blas who runs Britain and the Intro intro declared war on the judiciary last night following the shock ruling that said not as a criticism but actually praised that you have the prime minister declaring war on the judiciary as a a whole and that is incredible echoes on that truly astonishing. If you go back into history James. Is there something to be said then for the way that the United States does this basically acknowledged that yes the Supreme Court is the Supreme Court. He's there as a branch of government along with the executive and the and Congress Congress etc but obviously it's political everything is so when somebody has turned the presidency they get a whack appointing Supreme Court justices those appointees therefore subject to public scrutiny of their records beliefs and they views and not that it necessarily makes anybody any happier but at least it needs it's transparent. There isn't a pretence that judges are not you know as Steve was saying people with their own ideas and opinions which may guide how they interpret the law. I think certainly only there is something to be said for that and that system is very well in the United States. I mean the I mean to again depending on your political time but the difference here is of course this is a relatively avenue institution in this country. It is something that we're still really and it's in that sense. He's had very severe test very early. In its existence I in very very difficult times unprecedentedly difficult times in in in this constitutional crisis that we have here but it would not be within a wide I too am British traditions to have a supreme court that kind if you think also embassador in the United States are very often political appointees. That's an incoming president will say okay actress this person from business or from another walk of life and I want to make herro him ambassador to this or that country. That's not the tradition this country where ambassadors and represented the country three of that kind tend to come from the diplomatic service and and are therefore soon to be doing the bidding of the nation the government of the time but not to have their political views a big part of that influencing duties. Steve if we return to some of the more hyperbolic criticism being made of the Supreme Court here in the UK this morning obviously obviously a lot of the people making these complaints are making them entirely bad faith and for entirely partisan reasons and one would hope at least that they know better eh but it does strike me that there does seem a general bafflement as to how the system actually operates which obviously always going to be a factor where you don't have a constitution that you you can just look up and go I see that's how it works out of the British public. Do you think sufficiently educated in how the system is supposed to operate at any any of us can expect to really understand all kind of the complexities. This is of course why we have a supreme court. He's literally. He's weird that Goldie tone in studying classics Boris Johnson Manages to say confidently and publicly. I disagree with the judgement so you have all eleven come to the same conclusion but he somehow believes leaves the he understands things better and the fact that people are then ready to accept VAT rubbing something else. That's the bit that's really startling to me and some people saying thank quote unquote. Ineffective dictatorship will know it's about laws those as opposed to be what keeps US safe. That's exactly the point James Rodgers and Steve Crawshaw. We will be back with more from you both both in just a moment but first here's monocle Daniel Beach with some of the other stories. We're following today. Thank you Andrew. The White House has released the transcript of a telephone call between President Donald Trump and Ukrainian president Linski which shows trump asked his counterpart to investigate former vice president Joe Biden trump claims the biden used his influence to shut down an investigation into a Ukrainian energy company which had Mr Biden's son on its Board House of Representative Speaker. Nancy Pelosi has announced that the Democratic led led House has moved forward with an impeachment inquiry into trump's actions where he is accused of pressuring a foreign leader to find dirt on a political rival and rainy and official official has said there is no chance of meeting between trump and Iran's president Hassan Ronnie while they are both in New York City for the United Nations General Assembly this week speaking looking at the UN trump called on world leaders to join the US in pressuring Tehran over the attack on seventy oil facilities which have been blamed on Iran and China has opened opened an enormous multi-billion-dollar airport in the nation's capital Beijing. It's thought that Dr Singh international which was designed by late architect Zaha Hadid is the world's world's biggest single building terminal shaped like a starfish. The airport was officially unveiled by Chinese Premier Xi Jinping. Those are some of the stories. We're following here at Midori House. It's now back to you Andrew. Thank you Daniel. This is Monaco's house view. I'm Andrew me. Hey with Steve Crawshaw and James Rojas another issue prodded into the spotlight light by yesterday's Supreme Court decision in the UK is the question of sovereignty and the limits the of most of the loudest complaints inevitably about a British court upholding British laws have come from Brexit who once claimed to want exactly that but much of the brexit argument has been about how sovereignty is even supposed to work in a hyper connected connected world similar questions are raised by for example Brazil's attitude to the global resource of the Amazon and Britain's responsibility to its foam colony in Hong Kong James. Is there a simple way of delineating or understanding. What sovereignty actually means now now? I don't think it is I think one of the this is one of the great difficulties. If we consider the example the Amazon rainforest in what President Boston Ara has said about that one of the examples which those who people are in favor of the the European Union the way it cooperates on on an international level and indeed the United Nations is that environmental challenges are precisely those which need to be solved internationally nationally in the sense of between nations because obviously a fire in the Amazon rainforest is going to affect much more than simply immediate surrounding area in the same way that pollution in northern Europe perfects much more than the cities in which that pollution is produced in terms of facts rainfall and so on so I think particularly we are not only into connected of course in terms of the environment of increasing so in terms of trade and so now. I don't think it is in terms. It is possible to talk about that in the same way that one could have done in the nineteenth century for example and yet we live in a world where these international organization seem increasingly to be less trusted a big countries powerful countries seem to be investing being less importance in them. Steve do they need to be then. Lord alone knows how you would organize the politics of this but do they need to be more legal frameworks enabling. I guess the overriding of sovereignty along the lines perhaps of the UN convention on genocide which not merely permits intervention intervention in such circumstances but by some readings would actually obliges intervention in such circumstances and that was a kind of change which over many decades was happening. I mean if we we've been having this conversation ten years ago. It would have been a quite different one of the the wave so going back into history we go back to the seventeenth century the Word Westphalia Seventeenth Century Treaty which kind kind of borders aboard as you do what you like within your borders following the Second World War that was like Whoa we kind of got that wrong a bit and there was a sense but it really took Rwandan genocide the things to say we do have responsibilities and out of that came this big. UN isn't quite a treaty but a U. N. agreement agreement called responsibilities protect which says to certain point we are all citizens in the same world and terrible things happening somewhere else we have people got worried that became a synonym or might become a synonym for invading other countries to create regime change was never what that was supposed to be about it was supposed to be about taking note of what was happening and and speaking up for that and doing whatever could be done and now we're kind of in that reversal period. Donald Trump certainly has is a lot to answer for in this sense. He doesn't seem to care remotely what happens elsewhere as long as it suits his own personal agenda and it kind nine of makes it much easier for others that old phrase of interference in internal affairs isn't the phrase was used by the Soviet Union when it existed used by Communist China for many many years China right now exactly a now they kind of stopped using it more embarrassed to use it in the era of but actually it's now combat combat really strongly and that's what's troubling is you're not seeing any country really being able to push back with authority because of America's crumbling authority in so many different ways joins there is a he and in the United States when and if you look at the big culture war fractures of Brexit and trump there is a tendency for those who when those who speak on behalf of that old school sovereignty idea of you know strong borders your own currency your country first and devil take the hindmost etc.. There's a tendency to write them off. As being sentimental nostalgia sts for a world com. Come back if indeed it ever existed but is also just as much dogmatic logic to be found on the other side of the argument. Those people who just you people who advocate for things like open borders shed currencies across nations and so forth is there anything to be said for upholding some aspects of the old school ally Dea of national sovereignty soon as seems to help to win elections. I mean I mean I think I think we are we all. I think there are a couple of issues here. Firstly the fact that there has to be a steve has been alluding to since I've been a decrease in the will to participate in these international things but the second thing and this is always been the case who's going to enforce this. We don't have a world police. Force eventually are GONNA. Come and say you can't do that so nobody's going to tell the United States of polluting one wonders if anybody's what is GonNa tell China off of what happens in Hong Kong more than diplomatic utterances and so I think there is still something to be said for that and as I say certainly since we very popular certainly in western Western Europe it has caught the mood of many publics maybe not to descend extensive delivering crushing electoral victories but it certainly growing force in politics as indeed it is in the in. Oh and the rest of the world one could almost argue that President Putin success in Russia over the last two decades is adhering to this kind of these kind of political principles okay well. Let's look finally on our news panel at press freedom with a specific reference to a discouraging story from the United States. It has emerged that a couple of years back the New York Times Times Bureau chief in Cairo. Declan Walsh was due to be arrested by local authorities displeased with his reporting whistle blowers within the trump administration who feared that the the trump administration plan to do nothing about this told the New York Times who alerted islands embassy in Cairo Walsh is an Irish citizen and an Irish diplomat. Duly duly escorted him post-haste to the airport. Steve First of all does the US and going back to what we were just talking about about the limits of sovereignty just just the USC have any get out clause on the basis that they can legitimately say look. He's an Irish citizen. It's not our problem would be to say that be cheeky would be an understatement. I mean thank God that he had marriage possible and they will be able to to send but of course fundamentally. This was the most cynical calculations possibly I I mean. The the many threats to journalism worldwide are disturbing but the idea that US administration onto trump which look away is so disturbing trump himself is is simply a a morality free zone. Frankly he said publicly that he praises torture. He's in the middle of trying to appoint to a key human rights post. Somebody who's also said tortures a marvelous thing and here he is with a journalist threatened being arrested by one of the most torturing regimes has been appalling. Stop both under Mubarak but continuing thing now and just looking away from that. It is very traditional. If a journalist represents paper from your country then you regard that person business fundamentally of your country I mean that's been true always and so I think even if he'd been an American passport holder the the reaction to be just the same and it's so troubling the idea that we just don't need to speak out. We saw the same thing of course with them. Khashoggi the journalist who was tortured shoot and murdered by the Saudis within the consulate and again trump seems unable to speak out on those themes fraser used last week with your Saudis played cash Ashington of what kind of pressures like really we like them because it's a it's a pretty startling place to have got to and it goes back to the rules based things. We were talking about the beginning here. You've got the torture. Ban is the international thing which everybody can sign up for. US President who says it doesn't matter who doesn't particularly care for journalists gets arrested with who knows what fate I mean. I think it's important to note that embassy staff do do and I have had some personal experience of this doodoo their absolute damnedest in such such circumstances using years ago in about two thousand five. I think I was arrested in Cameroon and I think if I remember how the chain of communication went somebody from our. SF told the USTRALIAN embassy or high commission in Booder in Nigeria because Australia doesn't have an embassy in Cameroon but they contacted the Canadian embassy in Yerevan today the Canadian Embassy in Yeah Youn die somehow found a non Canadian non in a convent in the same town in which I was being held who the cycle down the hill with a basket full of sandwiches and a thermos of coffee and generally made sure I was being properly looked after and then I was sort of supervised remotely as I was escorted out of the country extraordinarily resourceful and and and bold in fact very very very grateful for it but basically joins. What are the responsibilities any government has if they know that a journalist either from from who holds their passport or who works for a paper from their country is in strife well they have the same responsibilities they do to any passport ospel holder that comes to offer assistance but also of course the the so called laws of war the Geneva Conventions do provide for special treatment for journalists as well I mean I think reading starts from New York Times which is prompted. Our discussion is quite astonishing to read the the words attributed to somebody in the US embassy chorusing. What did you expect what happened to referring to Mr Walsh. His reporting made the government look bad and something which time discovers that cynical worldview I mean I think the the real held by the trump administration was cleared. Clearly it is of course journalists caused trouble and we now have had a degree of how from British embassies in British diplomats around the world when I've been in difficult places but one one sense is that the mood will generally towards journalism has changed a lot. Judaism has very very few your friends these days at a time I think when it is probably needed more than ever but you know if we look back into history even in this country on the eighteenth century you could be put what in the pillory for some and you could be imprisoned engine. Did your servants could be imprisoned. If you percents they'd be distraught no no none to bring them sandwiches either so but I think we live in times when journalists traditional economic module model models have collapsed APPs and it is under political pressure in Western democracies as never before sustained almost principled pressure just finally on this Steve to go back to the United States the Reporters Sans Frontier downgraded it on the press freedom index this year to forty eighth out of one hundred ninety in an ideal world how important is as the United States of all countries in being an advocate and defender of press freedom. It's hugely important. I know this is kind of cliche stuff but it is true that people people do look to America even during the dark times have looked to America somehow standing up for the right things when you have the US president that journalists the enemy the people it's not just important for America but that's an incredibly important green light for those who will quote those phrases in really dark context around the World Steve Crawshaw and in James Rogers. Thank you both for joining us in a moment the latest opinion for Monaco's editorial floor. You're listening to Monaco's house. Few Stay tuned and you've read daily email digest now. Listen to the PODCAST. The local minute is now in your inbox and in your ears at six. Am London time. That's seven am in Zurich with all the news views and clever comment. You've you've come to expect from AL unrivalled team of Editors Correspondence and bureaus around the world. You can fit a lot into a monocle minute. Just ask our editor Andrew Andrew Talk we cover everything news recover business because the fashion because the design and there are sectors that we know very well hospitality aviation organism stay in the loop in just ten minutes with the stories setting our agenda. The monocle minute is our essential daily bulletin tune in in at six. Am London Time on monocle twenty four and look out for the podcast. This is multiple sales few I'm Andrew Miller and finally today multiples senior editor Robert Bound reflects on how Britain's political framework is holding up under the weight each of chaos and his first two months in power. The British Prime Minister Minister has lost his first six votes in the House of Commons broken. The law in suspending parliament misled the monarch. It's quite a track record. Despite the Queen's catchy name name sovereign parliament is sovereign in fact and yesterday morning stunned crashed over London the maximum number eleven justices of the UK Supreme Court unanimously unanimously found Parliament Not Perot legally in fact not per wrote a tool. MP's effectively have been offered back to Westminster good news for those who want to debate with government bad news for the government standing in the rain. The speaker of the House of Commons woman's that there will be full scope urgent questions for ministerial statements and for applications for emergency debates Boris Johnson County flying back from New York to face the music that will likely now sound like Bernard Hermann strings for psycho but who will be stabbed in shallow the political journalist Cara Walker told monocle twenty four that although Johnson's advisers such as Dominic Cummings alasia advise him to put on a show of force some all senior civil servants may say it's time to think again. Johnson has been asked if he'll resign and he surely won't Johnson is asked for General Election Bob the time being the opposition position Labor Party when degree to one. It's likely the Johnson's chief advisor Dominic Cummings shift towards this do or die politicking. If Johnson's wisely encouraged that prime hi Mark Machiavelli to fall on his sword praying that it is dead. Shaab doc fancy brexit is a sovereign. UK caught making your decision. You don't like remember the good European Court of Justice. Ah that was Robert Bound. That's all for today. Show Monaco's house view was produced by Daniel H and research by Wilt Higginbotham studio managers can you scarlet and David Steven's coming up at twenty hundred. Daniel has a brand new dishes. The Entrepreneurs Monaco House v Returns the same time tomorrow eighteen hundred London thirteen hundred in Toronto. I'm Andrew. Thanks for listening.

United States Supreme Court President Donald Trump Steve UK Amazon Steve Crawshaw Monaco prime minister China president London Britain United Nations New York Times Andrew Andrew Bernard Hermann Hong Kong New York James Rodgers
Paul Schneider on Cape Fear

Movie Crush

1:22:24 hr | 4 months ago

Paul Schneider on Cape Fear

"Love your propane grill. Life just got a little easier with propane taxi. Stop logging that tank propane tax is a propane grill tank home delivery service. It's ridiculously easy and convenient. Just go online. Choose a delivery date and propane. Taxi delivers grow tanks. Straight to your door exchange any brand of tank and right now new customers get their first tack exchange for ten dollars with promo code tank ten ten dollars for your first tank exchange with promo code tank ten visit propane. Taxi dot com. No contact no commitment. No problem welcome to movie crush. Production of iheartradio. Hey everybody welcome to movie crush. Friday interview edition with rid of the show and friend in real life. Mr schneider. hello. I've got one thing to say. You check boys convert deniro quote insists. I am like god and god like me. I am as large as guide. He is as small as i. He cannot above me or beneath him be sedate easiest seventeenth century. Your accent is so much better because you're from north carolina. it's crazy. how bad his is yet. Here's the thing we'll go ahead and talk about the exit and you're right off the to talk about something else before we even talk about the movie but the accent is something that i had to get over and reckon with over the years and now actually like it for. It's sort of fun be movie quality. Yeah but it is by no means authentic southern accent now. I couldn't get over. At at. The first time i saw it i was. I was so like aggrieved as a southerner you know. I was like you know i was. I was deal with us to get right and they movies always way way way overdue it and not just that but every southern at the default southern character where the southern accent and all media is an idiot. Yes you know he's a clown and obviously us and other people like us have a problem with that guys have really smart with with low self esteem and we just want everybody to we. Wanna we wanna place it's table it's in your life defending this out in conversation. You like me too much. Yeah it's a big thing because it's just like now we're not all dumped gregor's can be very progressive. We can be very intelligent. And then i tried to give like literary examples tobacco myself and i can't remember anything like faulkner right guy and there's like okay and i'm like you know one county all the books. I might even say all the books so before we get going on cape fear and ernest You just got finished shooting a motion picture in louisiana and as springing this on you but is it something you can you can talk about or you got to keep it under wraps who fucking knows. I never get those emails. But it's it's another not unlike cape fear it's a it's a it's a production for blunt house-senate kind of great pulpy Kind of pulpy quality. You know it's sort of an action family adventure but in essence just like this one. It's a family that you know has to deal with itself because of this sort of dangerous Because the because of this dangerous incident that goes. Yeah yeah we don't wanna give anything away. You already spoiled it for me privately. Well thanks a lot man. Don't need to see it now. yeah. Of course i'm gonna see it but it sounds like a fun little thriller with some good twists and turns Little little straw dogs to it which is great and it did watching cape fear. Yesterday i kept thinking like we'll schneider just did a movie. That's not completely unlike this because there are some certain themes in cape fear that especially get now more as a father and husband About the Whether it's right or wrong the pressure a man might put on himself to be a protector. And and guys like us probably feeling fairly incapable of like nick. Nolte was in this movie of being door. Yeah i mean you know. it's funny. How the decisions that. Sam has made kind of kind of strip them of his power and the fact that he marries lee. This very beautiful very intelligent woman She reminds him of this. In these insidious cutting ways all the way through the the film in one thing that i One thing that i read was you know scorsese was interested in making this. If if in the remake they pumped up the disintegration of the family and the deceit and the the duplicitous -ness of the family and how much they tear each other apart and in the in the dvd extras. The blu ray extras. They talked about how you know. They used bernard hermann score man. I know so effective. That elmer bernstein conducted and arranged. And you know. I met elmer bernstein at film school. But what they did is they. Used some of the most Like the heaviest. Most dramatic pieces of herman's score in the family scenes in the family sequences as katie is coming after coming after sam with a pipe. Or you know you know you know breaking into the house. It was in these moments of you know. There's this great moment. where danny juliette lewis. She says she goes. Oh man there's a whole. I mean there's a whole movie crush on her i i mean that's one of the great one of the great sort of i don't wanna say kid performances but like young adult performances under percent. Because she fits. She fits right into the movie but she's doing something else that's insane. Oh she's like she's like she's like an extremely well trained actor and completely non actor all at the same time. Yeah where. Are you saying the better though. I cut you off and you had relevant point about her. Oh so there was that. I was noticing last night when i watched it again that you know these juxtaposition between you know what what's happening on what's happening in the character of the narrative and what happens in the camera so danny says i thought we were supposed to be relaxed now and as as the camera is like charging towards her at a hundred miles an hour. And yeah you know. There's that seem at the dinner table when sam is saying you know. They hired joe don baker as a private eye. And he's like yeah you know. I think this guy's really going to work out. You know he seems to be really enjoying it. And then the phone rings moments Is the one. She's the one the first one later in the move in the movie at the climax that last amazing sequence it will get to in depth later but She's the first one that immediately has the instinct to try and manipulate his sexuality in his emotions the batman. She's the first one that's like you know. I thought we we had this connection. No no just talks about the connection. But she's talking about reading nexus. Yeah right right. Yeah she's like. I read that that you know like let's connect on that like you know which part in like right away. This girl is the one. That's leading the charge while dad's tied up outside and jessica lang is it. I just understandably completely freaked out and she uses language. It was something like he says something like you know. Did you read all of those parts. And she says he. I read those parts. As if they're they're talking about something. That leeann sam don't know about you and it's like in this weird way. She curls under his wing to sort of to fool him to To try to get get find a chink in his armor and of course there's not one it doesn't work but but it's funny. Both of those women are so crafty. I'd say like cunning and crafty in the way that they are trying to to to be. Max and the way sam goes about it is like caveman. Yes and. I don't mean that as a pejorative like literally. He's trying to smash his head with a rock. Yeah that's the only thing he knows to do because he just makes a series after series of missteps and dealing and trying to handle this as the husband Whether it's like as the lawyer yeah well yeah. Maybe maybe his journey and the story is to get back to a fuck to be a fucking caveman and likes to reclaim his monkey maleness and like because he certainly doesn't have that all the way through the movie you know and then Sam earn not sam Can't remember jessica links character name lee. Yeah le- man that monologue at the end when she's chained handcuffed to thing down and saying the things that you know. Will you just do those things to me. And not her. It's it's like ice. I loved this movie in college. We watched it a lot. I saw it many many times back then. The but this is the first time in many years and certainly since i've been a father and maybe even a husband but that shit wrecked me and this time seattle scene jessica. Lang is so good. He should've been nominated. I'm mad that she did julia. Louis was to her credit which is great nominated for an oscar for supporting actress and loss to mercedes ruehl for fisher king with another favourite performance of mine. So it's really hard to end wardrobe dumb anyway but It just the acting in this movie across the board is just amazing. And she sort of Jessica links for pathetically pulls the strap or not the strap The top of her shirt as like kind of like pathetic or lorraine like please do this to you know and she kind of refers back to the time when she was putting on lipstick after she and salmon and made love and she was looking out at this. You know this blue screen. Max katie but i wanna i wanna talk about one thing that i. I was blown away by this when i saw a couple months ago. And this time to is the speed of the narrative. And i wrote this down. I mean i. I you know i paused and rewound and i wrote this down so this is what we know. In six minutes we know about the existence of cape fear being a dreamy dangerous place. You know that max. Katie has been released from prison. And he's not an idiot because he reynolds books already limit and we know that danny relates more to graziella the housekeeper than she does her mother or family. We know that lease graphic designer. Who loves her dog more than her daughter. And in my opinion yeah definitely and in my opinion you know. She the fact that her character is this artsy smoker to me. It also tells me that she doesn't want to be a wife or mother anymore. Yes and then. We set up sam as a lawyer who traffic's in a world of privilege and favors because he gets the judge to push the alimony hearing of fred thompson's daughter and finally we get a taste of katie in a small way terrorizing the family at the movie theater watching problem child. I mean one of the great scenes that silhouette man and those the choices keeney lighter that big humongous fat cigar. There's so many deniro's really as are most actors and get your perspective on this too when it comes to picking props and wardrobe and stuff like that. I know that he is meticulous in known for like trying on fifty jackets until he finds the right one. Like what is that. Like for you as an actor when you get into that it really is. I mean i it really depends on whether or not you're robert deniro Like having the opportunity to i mean the power to okay Hopefully you have a director. Hopefully a director and a costume designer and a makeup department who's able to collaborate and kind of confident enough to collaborate bright. And the you know. Sometimes you walk into a situation. Where they're you know they're hem and haw and and they kind of want to give you a little bit of of broom but they basically have all your clothes picked out and for me. I just want someone to say like. Hey dude you know. This is what i've got picked out. So can we talk about this instead of kind of like letting you know letting you go a little bit and coming up with ideas that you know. They're going to shut the door on right. It's like just fucking tell me. They had this idea that actors. Are this artsy fartsy lot. Who can't you know who are too sensitive and can't take you know can't take decisions or can't take can't take notes But i just don't you know. I don't feel that way you know. If i feel like somebody's not going to collaborate. I just won't do their movie But it it. It's really hit or miss depending on who you're working with and it really sucks because most of the time they want the cast because they want to Kind of dress you in the close of the movie they last choi in. Oh interesting because they have cast you as that guy right right and so i ended up wearing the same brown shoes every fucking movie. I do really. Yeah but then you have. People like jane campion and all the sudden. I'm like you know like in includes. I've never worn before or right. Obviously exactly but who can see can see past you know. The last character he played does getting in that were drove is at a real important thing to you or is it just kind of part of everything if it's specific enough absolutely okay. Yeah and if it's a period piece shipman it like it does the acting for you. Yeah that's amazing. And apparently he apparently deniro was like working out at night and they shot all the stuff where he takes his shirt off towards the end of production so he could be as good. Yeah lowest bmi or something dude. I remember seeing this in the theater. they could probably did see in the theater in college in that i reveal of him in the cell. When he's got that long slicked back hair in his body's just chiseled out of fucking stone with those tattoos man that back. Tattoo that big cross. It's like intimidation overload right off the bat and just so effective and it had to be that way and the was sort of like pre. Everyone has a tattoo. Ya and for like shock shocking. Level of debt do's and and for to like Use croup church kids all those bible verses were like no extra yeah they hit me and you probably harder just like the exorcist. Hit me harder like this is. This is really not what my mom wants me to be near. Yeah he was crazy. Emily and when. I moved from my hometown to the dmv one of the hardest. Most daunting things to do was find doctors offices. The process can feel a little scary. A little outdated as well. Which is why. I love live by advanta. They've got integrated women's health services to support your whole health so they've got a diverse clinical team in areas like obgyn primary care even mental wellness under one roof. And let me tell you. The building does not feel like you are in a doctor's office at all. It is absolutely beautiful. Makes you feel so comfortable as well and is located right on fourteenth in you. They also make everything so easy to do from filling out your paperwork to scheduling appointments. 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But i would like to talk a little bit about scorsese's methods here and Just what a wild movie he made with the With the changing the the film stocks to the to the negative the negative and then these washes of color and then from negative back to color in those sequences were just sort of flow and drift back and forth and glues clean and after's and jump cuts and unmotivated camera and also. Everything is in it. Like he really didn't hold anything back while i was thinking to myself like this is a movie that celebrates the fact that it's a movie it's over the top neo noir cartoon and if people watch it trying to you know trying to watch like a super super serious you know tight. Suspense thriller while this. Isn't this isn't bad. It's not super serious. You know it's sort of like yeah. It's not even reality. No shattered almost like i have in here somewhere. My it's a real movie movie. Scott this has got this heightened sense of reality and it doesn't feel like real life it feels just off. It feels like a bad dream. Yeah i mean in in in the way that he when they do strip search seeing you have these like nazi adjacent tattoos. you know. He's got these these thunderbolt that are kind of like storm trooper thunderbolts. And then these obviously the bible old testament tattoos and then he takes off his pants and he's wearing like silk bikini briefs. Red leopardskin was such an interesting joyce you know like i. Sometimes i talked to filmmakers directors. Were making something. I'm telling them like guys. Let's go for broke. You know like we can always take something out. We can't put anything in like. Let's put everything in And obviously for this one. They put everything in you know. He's celebrates the fact that it's a. It's a movie movie. And i mean i look at it the same way that i look at lawrence of arabia to me. Lawrence of arabia is a cartoon. Uh-huh cartoon. I really enjoyed if i'm picking through the you know if i've got kapadia open and i'm trying to fact check you know it's just it's not that He's always like that. That opening a sequence where it shows him in prison getting released from prison. You know he's got nobody coming forum and that shot of him leaving the prison with that storm coming in the background and he walked straight up to camera and basically you know. That's the film school one on one thing. Where like don't ever do that. Shot where it's such a trophy like film student. Shot but scorsese did it. And you get the feeling. It's just like he's laying it all out there right there with that shot. Just buckle up everyone because this is a monster movie and it's a little bit like this film. I left call a christmas tale With chiara mastroianni. And catherine deneuve and a whole bunch of other people and the guy are no depletion. I don't know how to say his last name. But that's what i think it is. He he right off the bat. He uses every filming technique. Almost if to almost as if to completely sort of level you in terms of your expectations so table. Yeah so if i if i do everything within the first five minutes then you can't sort of bitch or moan about anything you could get up and leave right now this. Is that your bag. Yeah exactly this is what we're gonna do here. Everybody and the differences is that these guys. You know freddie francis obviously but like these guys are doing this you know in film school they were like make sure all your camera. Movements are motivated. Make sure your lighting is natural. You know like salmon. lee are salmon. Lear having sex in that one scene and there's like the fire. Why are there fireworks. I don't know man. I thought the same thing. I never questioned it until last night or yesterday afternoon when i watched it but ban it looks fucking awesome. I i understand that. It's july fourth or whatever there's that scene but it's not july fourth on that day right i where are they. They're living in and they shot it in florida but this is Just the setting of this film. The sort of low country of south carolina I know you're from the carolina's in. I'm sure and i know for a fact because we talked about it that that whole sort of low country outer banks seed vibe is so appealing and so evocative and can be so creepy and it's such a great setting for a movie like this total. I mean it's what obviously it's what david lynch locked onto in velvet right But yeah he. I mean these. These guys are using all the tropes. But the fact that they know what they're and obviously scumacher schumacher login. Yeah like i mean. I mean these people are doing all the silly things but it's just that they really know what they're doing all the silly things and and they're the best at it so they're kind of like they know all the rules so they can break them kind of saying. Yes she really. She's the editor for those of you. Who don't know she's was scorsese's editor for a long time. And just a legend of the business and really had our work cut out for in this film but also i imagine it was probably a lot of fun to edit this movie totally. I mean because because it's it's a fable and it doesn't. Yeah exactly and i feel i mean exactly the same. Miss juliette lewis which is fascinating. Now when we're when we're living in the metoo moment how do you. How do you create those electric upsetting. Yom physical sexual moments has an actor. I mean obviously. There are ways to do that. But when when i was watching the scene again where i mean the whole point of that that seen the whole the reason why it's so electric is that obviously deniro didn't tell jamila juliette lewis. He was gonna put his thumb in her mouth and he didn't now now man and she talks about that. I mean first of all one of the most for me it's like fifty percent vary Disturbing and also fifty percent serve as an actor fifty percent like holy shit. How effective. oh. Yeah i mean that whole scene is i mean. It's one of the scenes movie history. Now i think is that drama department seen She so good in it the way she plays that so innocently in so the way. I even notice the way she after he kissed her she was eighteen at the time of filming. Obviously still very creepy stuff to do but they had any looks young but super young. Yeah but look to fifteen or six shares. What she played The way that after he kissed her god. It's still just gives me the chills thinking about that because it was so fucking creepy And he just bolts and the way she played that that unnerved high school like kind of looked around. Like did anyone to see that. Or did i just do. As she ran out of their kind of upset but kind of thrilled it was all their man and just like face acting in in the way she ran out of their her. Her shoes were probably like for pointed. at each other's she like pulled her Her shirt down a little bit. And that's you can't teach that then. It was so instinctual on the in the the extra. Dvd extras juliette. Lewis talks about that being like one of her most satisfying acting experiences. You know a bit sure. And she just was really into the electricity of it and she was into the you know without a net miss of it you know and the idea that anything can happen and and it did But you know how do how do you create that in a world of In a world of rightfully in a world of consent when we have to create moments of of danger. Yeah i mean it would certainly be a much more. Controversial seemed to even put in a movie these days and a modern Seen like that the It was a different time. You know the girl probably wouldn't put herself in that position or rightfully and but you know he had set it up all the night before he called on the phone establish that bind made her laugh a little bit kinda was like. I'll be there for you. Because i know your parents. They don't get you so it's all there. And i think that hits home of wi max kadian. This movie was so threatening was that he didn't get out of prison and go to sam's office and shoot him in the head. He had this plan to grow hair. Rise this family. Yeah and that's so much scarier then just getting out of jail and going a a revenge killing your attorney and you know i. I was really struck this time around the win. Both when they talked about he has that line where he says to. Sam you're gonna learn about loss. And i was thinking about this so basically all three of them lose something Danny is going to is going to lose her. Ideal mother which has ella is going to lose her ideal friend. Which benjamin. The dog and sam is going to lose his ideal wife which is elena douglas. His you know his co worker. We we meet them. They're both wearing white. They both are sexually attracted to each other. They interested in the same thing. Say love racket ball. They love the law like light. It's fun it's like this. His marriage at that point was this Difficult thing where you know you learn later. I love the way they parse out the back story to like you can tell very early on that. Lee has no respect for him now in his work or as a man in husband and father. But you really don't get whites in they parse it out later on in that great scene where you learned that he cheated years ago and that's why they left and that's why they moved and i think it was really smart to hold onto that fact a little bit and just show her her contempt. That you know is there. But you're not quite sure why. And she says and she says at the beginning in that first six minutes she has you know she reveals these interesting kind of you know she reveals something about sam where where they're talking you know danny is like oh you should punch that guy and lee says yes. Am you know how to fight dirty. He do you do it for a living a little jabs like that. Yeah and it's just the accumulation of those jabs are. It's just it's just ridiculous. And the fact that he is so emasculated and because he's so emasculated. I think it's right that he uses the rock at the end. You know it's right that he you know is that kind of primordial you know avenger at the end because all he's such a joke you know. Yeah he's supposed to be this. Whip smart lawyer. But every time he turns around his house is being infiltrated. And then when he when he goes on the attack what happens. You know lee heller. You know denise max. Katie hires lee heller. He says it's going to be a con conflict of interest. He says why is like bull max. Katie's employed me his defense attorney and he's and every time you know like he hired. He goes along with. Joe don baker and he hires a couple of bucks to try to be in on that goes straight to hell and they'd seen his great manny to ship added on. That scene is such a such a tense scene because not always just fucking up manny make so many mistakes shouldn't have been there to see it happen But he does. He wants to see him. Be get beat down and then you know katie superhuman at this point he is he is a monster because these guys three guys beat him with chains in that steel bat Over the head multiple times. And he's still coming back and The one thing that the one part that bothered me that always bothered me was when he kicks at can makes the noise and freezes. And you know could you be there. And he he approaches and then the ending of that scene there was no way out of it that made sense so narrow just goes fuck it. What's the matter if you do here if you are here. And he walks away right and that that really bugged me. Because but then i started thinking last night i was like but how do you get out of that scene. Yeah you can't. I mean i mean i mean if. He came around the dumpster and And it was revealed that sam had sort like scurried away. Know sort of expertly scurried away. That wouldn't make sense. It wouldn't but man it would give it would give. It would really throw sam's character of bone you know i've known that would be good or bad but at that point he would feel like but maybe you know maybe at that point of the movie he. We need sam to be as weak as possible. You know he's charged. He's borrowing lease cigarettes chugging. His wife cigarettes at hell and he he's being forced to to duck under all the windows. You're not supposed to stand up right exactly and in fact i was noticing last night. There's there's a seat the first sort of the it's an early. I long scene between katie. And and sam wynne max is in his mustang and he talks about You know sam offers him money he says ten thousand dollars and then max does the math and realizes the bucks a day just totally of this rates them right and and it's funny through that whole scene behind behind sam's head is the word discount store. There's a store yeah. There's a banner for a store and it just says something something discount but no accidents. No not at all these people did. Yeah these this scorsese team. These people are not even if it's not conscious. These people are not making mistakes. Yeah it's interesting. The a think the only bone that sam finally gets from From lee from jessica lang is at after they'd been through everything and they were finally on the boat. She is not built him up at all or giving him any breaks about anything now that he deserved it Is when he says that he's gonna go fishing the next day and she goes as a really great character moments. She says you know we got enough food to last us a week. Where are you going to do that. And then she kind of catches herself and she goes because you know that she knows that he needs to catch the fish to provide for the family. Like he's a frontiers and she goes. I think that'd be really nice right. And that one little moment man she gives them in the whole fucking movie and it's just so key to me that she felt the need to like like man beaten this guy up. We his literally been beaten up over the course of this movie. And i've got to give him some shot of self esteem. Even if that's just your husband go catch the fish you know. And she you know like she he did betray her for sure and obviously i'm not advocating infidelity. But the truth is i think after a certain period of time like he doesn't deserve it in the sense that she's destroying herself in the process. You know if you can't truly forgive then you should get divorced right. She needs to get the fuck out but she's she's kind of. She's ruining herself by staying there in this awful situation and and you're right. As far as character development goes she needs to throw him that bone because we have to see them. There has to be a glimmer of hope at the end and it's interesting because all these trappings of suburbia all these trappings of professional success. In you know all these friends family whomever everything gets stripped away. And they're they're just lane in the mud the on the on the the river's edge you know and the rain is sort of like completely fogging. Entrenched sam's glasses. And they're kind of you know they're kind of like this family trio at the most in the most you know molecular sense. Yes they have to start. Start over and i don't know if you saw the dvd extras but Scorsese talks about that seat. There's a shot of lee. After she's been you know she and danny have been sort of thrown from the boat. And they i guess they've Sort of swatted swam swum. Swam jerk swimmed. They swimmed over to the the the short the river. Riverbank and salmon. Max are kind of in the last throes of their their manley battle and Once everything's sort of sort of done and katie goes down with the that piece of the boat or zinc. He goes down the peace. Yeah that nice little shot. Yeah she's left in the mud and she's she's there by herself and in the shot. She picks herself up out of the mind and in the dvd extras. They were explaining that that was actually a reverse shot in in reality. She was laying herself down into the mud. But scorsese wanted this. Just a very slight sort of uncanny kind of otherness to that to that shot and i re watched it and i was like pan. These fucking guys so little bit like a cool faintest the now and who knows if that was a choice. I'm always fascinated like. Is that a choice. In pre-production is address in production. Or is it a choice in post post. It might be posed. Yeah but i think. I think you know i think you know if you've got all the people firing on all cylinders These things don't have to be conscious you know. They're just making decisions and later on they will mean things but in the moment we don't know what they mean but they're the right thing to do. Yeah there's also a there's also a moral question at the heart of this story. That when i saw this in college twelve times at every thought about it but there is a real moral question about a defense attorney burying report of promiscuity I mean that's the whole central focus of this. Movie is the fact that max katie went to prison for fourteen years and maybe didn't have to because there was a report that showed that the victim his rape victim had been Like two or three at least two or three sexual partners in the last month. And you know joe don baker or not joe don baker. Who is the. Yeah now. Fred thompson fred thompson is the one. It's like you buried the report. Hate that a he really s. I can't stand it. I feel like i feel like the reason. Why is because. I feel like this. You know fictional this fictional girls. Promiscuity obviously has zero to do with whether or not she deserves to be raped. Well of course. And that's what nick nolte finally gets to say that at the end right just because she was promiscuous doesn't mean she deserved what you did to her right. But can't fred thompson can't he can't of at least say to him like man That was You fucked up. But i get it. No you're right. He comes down on a really hard moral judgment in for as a really moral question. There really is no question. Obviously it except for the fact that you are entitled due process in this country and an attorney to represent your best interests like no matter what like he does go against that code it rightfully so i would have done the same thing right but it is interesting to kind of pick. Pick out a little bit. It's it's Funny how how. Max as capable and intelligent and cunning as he is he doesn't latch onto the idea that there's a gray area there right. He only he's he's so intensely focused on how he had been wronged but he of all the things he understands about human nature. He doesn't understand the part about human nature where he thinks a wait a second. This is actually something that someone would do But of course that's you know. That's because he was on that side of the he's on that side of the gun. Yeah that's a good point It's such a diabolical plan to that deniro has its you know he starts with the dog. And then he moves onto the mistress in one of the most brutal assault scenes in movie history. Yeah hard to watch him in ileana. Douglas is so great. I've always been such a big fan of urge and she's really great in this movie but the scene in the bar beforehand is just like panic inducing almost because you know what he is. She doesn't know what he is and she's drinking at the bar and you see it. Come in and it's just it's the tough thing to watch but he moved to the mistress then to the daughter into the wife and then ultimately to to not is his he's going to be the final guy because he wants him to see all this other shit happened right and he gets. You know he gets he gets in there in such I mean it's funny that there's underneath all this wild nashville colored bright. Poppy you know the costume choices are so corny and ridiculous you know his deniro's stupid mirrored glasses and his stupid white little danish hat like ridiculous things on on the top and then below pretty brilliant efficient script where you know he gets he gets through to To league by explaining how Sam had betrayed them both and so they're both wrong. They're both on this side of sam and obviously He he locks into juliette. Lewis is distance that she feels and the fact that she feels so misunderstood by her family even when they're trying to even when sam is trying to relate to protect to To protect danny. There's that scene. That just kills me. He goes into her room and she's i think she might be talking on the phone. She hangs up the phone and she's wearing these like short. I no actually. She's in her underwear. She's in her underwear. Utilities put clothes on. Just come on kidney more. And she's popping gum and being a teenager. Whatever goes in there and ask her. Why can't remember the reason. He went in first place but they get onto the topic of did he. Did he touch you. Yes and she kind of brushes him off and he comes closer and he's like no no did did did he touch you. And and it sort of builds to the point where sam has got his hands on her mouth and he's crushing her head into the bed board that the headboard of the bed and and then he he finds himself and he kind of backed up a little bit. I think he tries to like fix. Her hair may be and he's like sorry and he's leaves the room and then she screams like get outta here. Get out of here and this family like can can it just keeps on stepping shit these people you know sam especially he just can't get anything right will. Yeah 'cause he's he treats her like she's dumb and a kid and his there's that one scene where he and lee start to really go at it and he sees danny walk up the stairs and he's like oh everything's fine honey right and she's you know that's the worst parent. His kids fucking no man. I grew up in a house with parents who were in a twenty five year fight. Kids aren't stupid and to have parents be like. Oh everything's okay that's just that's just It makes it makes it all worse. That's for the ended. And yeah that's totally is. That's for them. And that's deniro sweeps in and gives her agency and treats her as an adult and that's how he he charms her to begin with on that first of the phone call and then when he's hanging down like a vampire. Yes tie like vampire bat. It was such a cool decision to put him in those gravity boots. Or whatever and he you know in the in the ileana douglas. i wonder with scorsese dating ileana douglas. At the time they either were dating at the time or they started dating. After this right it was right around that time. Though i think in that scene at the bar for some reason it's super creepy that max's always drinking water. Oh yeah like oh yeah. Yeah he's like the in the in the mustang and everything but because he's so disciplined he's got the discipline to read those teach himself to read and to do the ten thousand sit ups a day and to not drink into always be clear headed I also think that was a really clever setup with The he bites her cheek in that brutal scene. Because that comes back later. That's what partially what makes the scene. With juliette lewis so unnerving when he starts kissing her and i remember the first time i saw it i was like he's going to bite her tongue. Bite her tongue exactly. This is so effective and he doesn't which is a great little filmmaker trick to build up something that doesn't really happen at and in both of those scenes not in the not in the biden ileana. His face seen which i think. It's something they weren't going to do and they threw it in there and that was you know that's something that i i'm always pushing on director's i'm like guys like this is like this. Is you know we don't have one hundred million dollars. Let's put throw everything at this. You know like the only thing. We have is the ability to to make the script and do things narrative that no one's ever seen. We don't have david fincher money to make this. You know and you know and emmanuel do best ki- kind of visual masterpiece so you've got throw that silly shit in there and and if it doesn't work then take it out but you're asking about the the costume at the costume hair makeup choices and in the scene with ileana at the bar and also in the scene the big bad wolf scene and the in the school auditorium deniro looks really good like he's he's kind of feathered his hair back his hair looks back. Yeah and he's you know. I don't know what he's you know. He's got a bit of an extra tan but he's he's really handsome in those scenes and that you know that that kind of bait and switch where he says you know i actually was I was in georgia state penitentiary. You know they they. The jig is up and he talks about an anti you know. Anti nuclear pro saved a little low lady basically shoved around by a cop. Yeah and so he popped again three years. Yeah so like brutally manipulative and brilliant and as soon as that happened. You're like shit man. Yeah and as soon as that happens. Ileana is like i'm drinking seabreeze. I hope you can afford them. Yes she's she's in. You know the one thing that i wondered about yesterday that i had never considered is what a big risk that was for him because he by all intents and purposes should have been back in prison for a very long time after that brutal assault and he took a really big risk on her banking on her not saying anything and not kind of mentions it later like i think he. He knew that she knew the system and stuff but yes still a very very big risk that he took by going that far. You know they could have fixed. You know the they could have fixed that a little bit by saying you know. He knew that she wasn't going to testify that she was gonna you know she was going to get on the stand and get grilled and we could say you know we could say what she her response would be. And then sam's response could be. Well he's also a fucking monster who likes to rape. You know like you know like it's katie is cold and calculating and pays for everyone's lunch when no-one knows he's there but also he's a guy who you know rape dennis salted people and regardless of however many crunches he does every day. They're still part of him. That that's that big bad wolf. That's that you know. I mean. I think you're right like in the in the script. It's a little bit flimsy. I guess when he says oh. He took this big risk because he absolutely knew that she wasn't going to testify. I mean right. Yeah i agree with you. It's a little bit flimsy right there but in you know but sort of beyond the script in me thinking about him. I like the fact that he's you know he just can't help himself. He is monster. You mentioned the buying people They're paying dinners and stuff. The reminds me of that scene. With joe don baker where he was tailing him any paid for his lunch or whatever and what a great scene that was because joe don baker. This is such a movie about the male identity and masculinity and what that must mean because not is trying to be this protector. He thinks he needs a gun. He doesn't even know how to he. So ill equipped to protect his family and he knows it max. Katie is the quote unquote real man. Joe don baker is a real man and he's always got it figured out. You know that scene. Ian katy after that lunches so great where he's trying to tough guy him in katie's just like fuck you man. Yeah he's a you don't know who you're talking to us all and he says something like oh you know where were you a cop or maybe you couldn't hack it as a cop. That's the line. And that's where he completely fucking cuts his achilles and funding joe don baker everson the living daylights. I've always seen hit his act his. I've seen that actress like somebody who's who's big and blustery. But he's he's not gonna win. Essentially he's he's not capable for the one standing guard for the eagle-eyed for the knights in shining armor and for all those who support them. We are grainger. You're experienced safety partner offering supplies and solutions for every industry committed to helping keep your facility safe. And your people safer call. Click grainger dot com slash safety or just stop by grainger for the ones who get it. Done on the podcast. Works for us with rachel's. Oh and rodger berman. The hollywood power couple celebrate the chaos of working together raising kids and maintaining a happy marriage sharing what works for them. And what doesn't in a nutshell. What makes a relationship work separate bathrooms ability to walk away. I have endless amounts of patients. And i know exactly when to ignore him. Get an inside look. At both sides of relationships region are dating obviously there is some lust involved there. Because as i said she's quite beautiful she still is and and at the time. I am crafty thirty years and what makes them tick. Rachel said hey. Do you want me to pull up the car. And i said to her other so nice but it's a stick shift and she turns me. I'll never forget the look in her eyes she goes. I drive stick. And i'm like oh my god. I love you to works for us. With rachel's owen rodger berman on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts. I mean we haven't even talked about the greatest sequence. You know that that That concludes with sam slipping and cross yellows blood Yeah so all right let me start the beginning there then because that scenes ties into what i was gonna say about joe don baker is. He always thinks he's got it figured out at i. It's we can hire couple of guys. You won't be hearing from him anymore after this. They're also ill equipped to deal with this monster and then when he starts out that sequence where they're doing the overnight sam fakes like he's going out of town to the houses empty supposedly or not empty. But he's not there and he ties that fucking teddy bear up with the the bloom punishing wind. Yeah and he's like. I don't know if the holy ghost is trying to get in here. I got my little six. Shooter knows cops special. I mean not just that work and they used the teddy bear. Essentially they're they're they're strangling the teddy bear with monitoring line. I didn't even really ever think about that. Foreshadows the piano wire. Yeah yeah but he just thinks he's got it all under control early like every man in this movie they have it all under control and katie's really the only one with any control ever and He had it culminates and they set up you of course after seeing this multiple times and you see the housekeeper earlier on your like. It looks like deniro from behind. Yeah you know what's funny chuck. I realized when i was watching this. I mean i watched it again last night but Grassi allah is the second character that we see on film. Oh the very beginning yet. Right win right win. Katie walks into the camera in that kind of cheese ball film school saying that they tell you not to do. But it's perfect. Yeah there's a scene where we go when we established the outside of I might not have this visually verbatim but we establish the outside of the bowdoin house and then car pulls up and there's actually shot on the on the driveway and graciela footsteps into the shot. And the camera can't remember it either tilted up. I think it booms up to her face as she looks up at the house. And then danny comes out and says komo's star like but graciela looks up at the house. A couple beats too long in the camera stays on her. A couple beats too long almost as if to say that this is going to be a huge character in this movie with it. I mean kind of is but not really and i just thought man that is. That's that's really ballsy to to put a lot of weight on on this character. And obviously he's trying to really wait this you know he's trying to really The stakes so we've got this character in a single and not just a single but a single that that booms up. And then we've got benjamin the dog underneath lease drafting table and then It's not exactly a single but when we meet ileana douglas. It's in that really kind of hand held crazy fast cutting the racket ball right and so we see all these characters in you know isolated singles this movie as saying like the watch. These people watch these two people in this dog and obviously we don't know this at the time. But they're sacrificial lambs all three of them and and each person is i mean if you think about it. I'm just. I'm just thinking about this now. Like i'm thinking about the reaction of danny when graciela dies she free fuck out and and lease reaction to benjamin dying and she and sam says why told you not to let them out and she says i didn't fucking let him out. Yeah yeah she freaks. She freaks out about that. I mean again all rightfully all appropriately. And then of course sam his reaction to ileana douglas rape and assault is. Obviously i think he has a lot to You know. I think he feels very deeply about her being hurt. But you know receipt each character's kind of silent response to the thing they truly wanted being obliterated. Yeah yeah that's interesting And obviously you know he's hanging on he's establishing the Was it graciana krasula graziella establishing her early on to just because that pays off later said i mean when deniro's dressed up his hers he really got at least know what she looks like from behind what her hair looks like and what she's dressed like and that's that's one of the great reveals man in in history when she turns around and it's him It's just like i got chills. My arms now thinking about it. And i've seen the movie a dozen times and it gets me. Every single time tend to set up with the piano bleier being gone. It's all just expertly like puzzle together and to me. It's better than the face. Skin reveal of sounds to the lambs attitude. It's tiny for me. I'll take a. I think it's because of the hair but we should tell the listeners that so joe don baker. Has this big plan to absolutely catch catch backs. Katie and the whole plan is that they're going to use the family as bait to lure kadian so joe don baker in his kind of like blustery overconfident way strings of fishing line all over the doors and windows because he thinks he's going to you know He's gonna see the bear move because the line. The fishing line is wrapped around the bears. A neck so he sits there all night drinking his scotch and pepito biz law mixture holding his gun and the whole idea about the scene is that he He goes in the kitchen. He's we see graciela in her pink. Maid's outfit under black year. He says something to graciela. And of course grassi turns around. And it's you know. It's revealed to be bob niro max katie. And of course he gets he strangles steph fucking shit. Joe don baker with piano wire. Yes and joe don baker fall to the floor maxwell. The gun goes off each shoots himself. Oh yeah yeah yeah. that's right. Yeah that's where the blood came from right and to neo kind of guides the in the struggle. He kind of guides gun getting back to him. Yeah in joe don baker direction and then of course the baudoin's wake up and they fi- you know like max katie's gone. They find joe. Don baker they find graciela and in the melee of trying to call the cops or call the ambulance or whatever sam slips and falls on on the in this pool of blood that's covering the only one of the great decisions any movie ever right. What was to not just have that reveal and and that be what the scene is to have him slip in the blood and then lee come over trying to help him out in falling over in the blood. It's very goofy slapstick thing. But it's so visceral in like Hard to watch. Because you're you're just there discovered in this fresh warm blood and all of a sudden it turns into a fucking horror show and ties and this is the this is the power of the altar director these days. Everything is so watered down. Because we have to you know movies are so expensive. React to reach the biggest broadest fan base. We have to really you know ages twelve through fifty and we can't be specific and we can't be we can't be dangerous or evocative or We can't take chances and that right there is an insane chance you know. Yeah i just saw another round last night the match. Nicholson that won the oscar man the the best time watching it. I thought it was amazing. I yeah and then. Obviously tom inter burgers another autour. He's an he's saying no. I'm going to do this. And the choices are really specific. And either you like it or you don't and the ability in movies these days to either like something or not is getting. You know it's sort of getting farther rarer these days and most of the time the response is and i don't want i want. Oh i hated it or i loved it but so many films. These days are just kind of they're trying to succeed by not failing right and not offending or not depending not failing. You know I you know. I see on movie sets all the time you know certain producers that are not good producers. They're so concerned that something will be too weird or somebody won't understand something or we need to over. Explain something or the needs to be too much exposition. And and the thing once you do that you lose all the moments that you and i are talking about. Yeah i mean that blood slip. Seen i mean this is a movie made up of very iconic images and disturbing images That you're looking at with your eyes and there's a lot of disturbing themes of course and themes and then lines here and there but it's really some of these images it really are. What stick with you and to me there. There's that one and the other one that really gets me. Every time is that revealed that he's fucking strapped underneath that jeep cherokee. Oh my god. Such a great reveal because they're finally not finally makes one good decision right which is to get on that houseboat and go out on the river. Which is it's a creepy looking place. And that's the whole deal with the cape fear river and she talks about that you know and everything like that and it's called the cape fear But you're a stint stably ostensibly safe out on a boat on the water because there's nothing around you you can see everything he can't get to you there but he strapped underneath that cherokee and it's just it's just one of the great reveals. This is when it really is and this is when boden sam is trying to really trying to take some forward you know like makes them forward move your all bets are all. Yeah exactly and and that was another thing you know they. There was some discussion. Apparently some discussion on set about whether or not that would be possible and you can tell in the shot that they lifted the jeep cherokee a little bit lifted the suspension by clearance. And apparently they tried it with stunt man and it was it worked and then they went for it. But like that that part you know that reveal The blood slipping in the blood Biting half of ileana. Douglas his face off and sticking his thumb and juliette lewis's mouth. These are all these all. These are all beat in the script that in my experience i've seen nervous. Directors and nervous producers. Want to think very hard about maybe losing its to this or that or to this or somebody would be offended frustrating so frustrating especially when you would cape fear still be a great movie without those things it would accept except it's like a meal a meal that you and i both love slowly. Great ingredients are being taken out of this gorgeous meal that we're ready to eat this filming meal and after a while you know you lose those those images in those ingredients and the specificity of these movies are are lost in the process. Yeah i mean if you think of anyone who loves this movie if you said named the first five things that you think of in cape fear the first five images. It will be the thumb in the mouth probably slipping in blood. Maybe the reveal of Hanging underneath the car. But you know those are the moments like. Yeah you can't lose that. Yeah and and and if they truly remember the movie you're talking about if they truly remember cape fear they will say exactly the thumb in the mouth as the number well. Yeah there's like that to me that's like the takeaway and then obviously you remember the things but like that's maybe the face biting that really. I mean that's so disturbing and it was so stop though any way spit it out. It was But yeah i would say the thumb in the mouth. That's it's the most disturbing moment in the movie because there's so much tension there you have no idea what he's got up his sleeves and further down the line is max katie. His his burned and deformed face on the on the house boat. And one thing i love about. Danny's character is. That danny is a deadbeat. She's she's a pot she's not. I think i actually have inside. Started watching the original and didn't like it and stopped it and the never seen the kid in that movie is sort of like kind of the stock character of like. You know the kind of the kind of the good kid. Danny such a deadbeat pot. She's kind of dumb like her mom asks her what you know. The the girls In the parade who are dancing by with their You know swinging their batons and everything else Arthur's they're called as batons swing between your fingers tons batons right. Okay the drill team when it right right like silver silver shaft in two white balls on the end. It's a baton. Yeah right just didn't sound right now. I'm an amateur. I'm trying to. I need to get up on all this daughter. Shit but but lee says danny. Oh danny you could. You could have done that. Why didn't you go out and try out for that. And she goes. I don't know she's got nothing. She's got nothing. She goes to this drama class. She doesn't know what she's doing. You know constantly like complaining to her friend on the phone because she's in this you know she's in this world wind of a shitty family life but then in the end i in my opinion. The most the most exacting violent capable moment of attack. It comes from her. She's the win that slips the the the You know the the lighter fluid in her skirt or something wherever she hides it and actually what. She's locked in that at all. Yeah she's locked in thing she does is light a match and starts looking around yep she. She picks up that screwdriver. Whatever and it's like thumbs it right now to dull throws that away and then gets at ronson lighter fluid inside enter the front of her her shorts and Like i said she's the one from the beginning that starts to try to manipulate him. She's thinking faster than anyone else on that anyone else and You know of course. He likes that cigar. That's you know you don't question stuff like that in a movie house when when it would have you never let that cigar. It's like well. he did. Yeah that's all that matters at another yet. Another great pay off because he does it so many times in the In man when she lights him on fire and he jumps out there. Like no part of you seeing. That movie thinks that's the end of the movie. How like you know that that's not gonna be it and you're right when he comes back and his face and his hairline has receded by several inches you know. He's got a lot more forehead in that scene because his hair's been singed back shot. You know danny's on the table in the boat and katie's leaning up against the sink. And then she squirts that the lighter fluid across the room he goes up in flame. And if i'm not mistaken. Danny says i got him. I got him. I got him. And i mean you're right like here's this kid who's basically sort of dullard the entire movies. He's kinda roaming around sort of kind of being upset and into being slow here. She is on this this one moment of crisis and she's like she turns into the ninja. Yes and that's when the movie like from that point on it. I mean this is a movie. That escalates and escalates and escalates toward leg genre style stuff and then when he comes back on that boat that vase it is all bets are off. It is a full on horror freak show for the last eight minutes or whatever is left in the movie while the storm rages outside man when she talks about cape fear in. You know there's that you know. Juliette lewis is key. Danny is looking straight at the camera. At the beginning. You know she talks about cape fear and at the end pays off because it book ends where she's talking in front of the class but we we see cape fears like this place of dread because she talks about it and then it's gone. We don't know anything about cape fear we don't hear about it. We didn't know anything about it until the end and it's You know danny is definitely becomes the ninja in that scene. Lee tries to kind of kind of mr rectum. Yeah misdirecting with her sexual prowess or whatever And of course. Sam wants to take the rock and bashes head and it should be noted. That sam doesn't he doesn't he doesn't hit his head tied. Sort of drags katie's body out right right as the rock comes down and he misses. I have always had a problem with the speaking tongues really. Yeah well all right. Hold on a second list. I want to get there. That's at the very end. Let's Let's talk about that ridiculous in ridiculously. Great in every way sequence where the boat caves in itself that run. The miniatures are horrible. It's amazing i mean this is sort of a b. movie in some ways in a sort of an image to hitchcock and b. movies and movie movie so i don't think it was trying to be like the most realistic thing but i mean i still think that part looks amazing and the whole see movie at when when insures the movie and i love it but when katie gets back on finally at the end and he's putting sam on trial and breaking the fourth wall and looking at the camera and you know acting as if the camera is the judge and that he is the litigator. That's when the movie is just goes to eleven are just off the rails crazy at that point And it culminates in the speaking in tongues. I think i think it was all species movie. Build up to that moment and you still have a problem with it. I mean look at the good thing that those guys do is that they kind of they set everything up at the beginning and you know they give you a movie right in the first six minutes i mean look they. They give the first six minutes. They give you a lighter of girls boobs. You know like the lighter that that katy uses to his you know. It's like a naked chick lighter from a gas station in nineteen eighty five. It's ridiculous so you know. I mean once they do that yeah they can go anywhere they want and definitely by the time they get into the you know the kind of fake trial seen Script wise. You know all the other stuff. That's going bananas editing. This athletic camera. The film backwards and forwards. All that stuff as crazy at that time we were already there so the table is already been set for what becomes in my mind. The kind of the most extreme script moment which is the fucking. Which is this crazy trial. Oh man and when he grabs sam by the back of the hair. And you know when. Sam is Handcuffed behind his. You know his handcuffed behind his back and he grabs him by the back of the hair and pulls him through that window. I nick nolte nick. Nolte just bounces on this teak teak furniture. I just thought. God man these guys are but again you know the the the miniatures which i which they shot in england They're terrible. They looked terrible. And i mean it's fun though. And i think the fact that they're Embracing this artificial reality. That's those are the movies i love. I love the the cook his wife and her lover you know. I love all this stuff that is you. I'm not interested in you know. I'm not always interested in realism. I don't wanna look out my window and see a movie. i wanted to look into. Somebody's imagination and see that movie. Yeah it is interesting though in that trial scene is kind of over the top as it is. That's where you kind of get that key moment. We're not finally says it. yes. I buried the report. Yeah right because i mean that's where it's finally laid out there at the very end of the movie and you're my lawyer you were supposed to represent me. Because she was promiscuous doesn't mean she deserved to be raped. I mean that's that's it. That's not moral quandary in a nutshell at the very end And you know that's just prior to the boat implosion It also leads the funny Fight scene on the beach at the end when they're slugging in the shit out of each other and one of my favorite lines still is. I believe you're will within five hundred yards. Counselor i mean if you so over the top at yeah if you go back in you you can't. I mean half of katie's dialogue. you can't understand because of his accent but Yeah his definitely with joe. Don baker is Well you've got me shaking all over and there's win win sam comes across. He bolts across the The the parade and grabs grabs katy. Because katy's looking at his wife at one point. Katie says In his defense he said 'i prang on you. I'm not pranking on you. Buy what the fuck and win. Who yeah and win in wind. Sam is going nuts on this guy on katie. There's this shot that i'll always remember. I don't know why it's just buried in my consciousness but there's a shot of this kid in on the float and they're recreated yeah. They're recreating the exactly recreating the time. Life photograph of iwo jima. And this one kid you know who's kind of he's he's meant to be staying completely still as the you know. The the parade moves by. Sam is going so nuts and so you know. He's kind of nuts there. This kid breaks his iwojima character and just looks down as it really weird shows is. It's like what what. Why are we on this kid. You know. I remember that shot to every time i see that movie. I'm like what did he that shot. It's really interesting thing to leave in there. Yeah and there's that great tour de niro's like watch. My arm watch. Marmot might be broke. Yeah has backfired again like everything. He does just turns to shit in the rules are the rules are constantly being reversed where he's the bad guy completely and and i think i need. I need to wrap it up because my wife needs to to leave the house. But i i wanna say that. It's those moments of those out of context moments those moments where we don't understand those are a lot of the moments that we remember forever and this and this constant push of you know that we're living in this like numbers world we're living in a world of algorithms make sense and sort of a. plus b. equals c. world and the truth is it's those those moments of can complete randomness. You know those moments that we truly do have no idea why they left. That shot that kid in there. I mean plenty of people saw the edit and they were like. What's what's the deal. There people are going to be confused. Why could that's a bad thing. And what i say to them like. Why is confusion a bad thing. This is wrong movie neo noir crazy big bad wolf movie like we should be confused a little bit. Yeah totally. I think we did it. Dude we think yeah i mean only had one or two more points the weird stigmata price figure stigmata. At the end yeah. He washes his hands away. I'm not sure how to win back that it also also bugged me. That he was washing his hands instead of immediately running in looking for his wife and daughter right Well maybe stabbed you do baby steps sam. We'll get there. Yeah am glad they didn't show them you know a worse Lesser director would have the last shot of the movie would have been the three of them living together with a new puppy. That looks just like the old dog and living happily ever after somewhere. But he didn't do that. That's that's the trophy ending. He ended with juliette lewis with that. Great sort of ending monologue about choosing life In in the film goes negative again. This is like we're out the even says the in. I think right fairytales over yeah and i just love that that a character that i just love it. It's not sam. I love it. S not salmon. it's not leeann. It's not max bookend thing. It's her story and a lot of ways. It's kind of her story. And a lot of ways you go. Jud stuff man juliette Thanks for doing this and thanks for wedge in this in and then we had a hard time with the scheduling but I don't about it as fun as i hoped it would be. Great movie. it's a great movie. I i really love to hear that baby. Oh yeah oh yeah. I got to be a dad but i'll tell you one thing. It's really great to rewatch these things with movie crush in mind because it may be crushed makes these things makes me sees them in a really brand new kind of more analytical way and i love it. It's i'm glad you're enjoying it to my. I am buddy seal later. I'm gonna go move to cape fear literally in about a month. Awesome all right. Thanks dude is produced. Written by charles bryant enroll brown edited and engineered by nicholas. Johnson scored vinyl brown here and our home studio punk st market atlanta georgia for i heart radio for more podcasts. For my heart radio. 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Archive: The Day The Earth Stood Still (1951) w/ special guest Ted Walch

Classic Movie Musts

48:38 min | 3 d ago

Archive: The Day The Earth Stood Still (1951) w/ special guest Ted Walch

"I'm max baril and this is classic movie musts where every week we break down a classic movie while looking to provide artistic insight and historical context at the very least. We'll talk about what makes these movies classics. Classic movie must releases every friday ready to complement your weekend. Movie viewing plans. Thank you as always so much for your support on patriot. And in this week's episode we are discussing the day. The earth stood still in this episode in our feature presentation. Ted waltz joins us to discuss this. Bit of early sci fi but first. Let's get into our opening credits. Our film this week is the day. The earth stood still which was directed by robert wise and was released in nineteen fifty one. The day the earth stood still stars. Michael rennie patricia. Neal and sam jaffe when a flying saucer lands in washington. Dc the us army quickly surrounds it. A humanoid emerges and announces that he comes in peace and with goodwill when he unexpectedly opens a small device. He is shot and wounded by nervous soldier a tall robot emerges from the saucer and quickly disintegrates. The army's weapons the alien orders the robot gort to desist. He explains at the now. Broken device was a gift for the president of the united states and would have enabled him to study life on other planets. The alien caught two is taken to walter reed army hospital after surgery. He uses a salvator quickly. Heal his wounds. Meanwhile the army tries but is unable to enter the saucer. Gort stands outside silent and unmoving clots. Who tells the president secretary mr harley. He has a message that must be delivered to all. The world's leaders simultaneously hardly tells him that in the current political climate that is impossible klotz. Who suggested he be allowed to go among humans to better understand their unreasoning and suspicious. Attitudes hardly rejects the proposal and clots. Who remains under guard clot to escapes to a boarding house as mr carpenter. The name on the dry cleaners tag on a suit he acquired among the residents are young widow. Helen benson and her son. Bobby when helen and her boyfriend tom stevens go out. Clot to babysits. Bobby the boy takes clot to on a tour of the city including a visit to his father's grave at arlington national cemetery. Clots who learns that. Most of the deceased our soldiers killed in wars. And they also visit the lincoln memorial clot to poses a question to bobby. Who is the greatest living person. Bobby suggests professor barnhart body takes klotz born barnhart home but the professor is out claw to rights and equation on the blackboard to assist barnhart with a celestial mechanics problem. He leaves his contact information with the suspicious housekeeper that evening a government agent accompanies clot to to barnhart caught to explains that the people of other planets are concerned. Now that humanity has developed rockets and a rudimentary form of atomic power. Clot declares that if his message is ignored earth will be eliminated barnhart agrees to gather scientists from around the world at the saucer. He then suggests clout to give a harmless demonstration of his power clots who returns to his spaceship on aware. That bobby has followed him. Bobby sees gort render to soldiers unconscious and claw to into the saucer. Bobby tells helen and tom what he saw but they do not believe him. Until tom takes a diamond he found clutches room to a jeweler and learns that is unlike any other found on earth clot to finds helen at her workplace and they take an empty service elevator which stops precisely at noon to demonstrate his power. Clots who has temporarily neutralized all electricity everywhere on earth except for essential services such as hospitals and airplanes in flight clots reveals his true identity to helen and asks for her. Help helen to decide to visit barnhart. On the way he tells her that should anything happen to him. She must go to gort and say claw to barada nico. Their taxi is spotted and hemmed in clot to is shot dead and helen russia's to the saucer hearing clutches words gort carries helen inside retrieves clutches body and revives him clot to explains to helen that his revival is only temporary to addresses barnhart. Assembled scientists and organization has created a police force of invincible. Robots gort in matters of aggression. We have given them absolute power over us to concludes your choices. Simple join us and live in peace or pursue your present course and face obliteration. We shall be waiting for your answer caught two and gort then depart in the saucer. The day the earth stood still had a budget of nine hundred ninety five thousand dollars and ultimately brought in one point eight five million at the box office adjusted for inflation. That is a budget of just over ten million dollars and a box office hall of eighteen point six million dollars now tattoo barada nico. Because it's time for our feature presentation joining us for today's feature presentation. Ted walsh ted. How are you today. I am very well. Max and you. I'm good i am. I am ready to talk about bringing peace to earth. 'cause i'm pretty sure this movie did it. Did it message received absolutely it. I received was about nine years old so and i i listen carefully. Yeah you haven't started any worse. Since then i haven't very good. This is this is gonna be fun. I'm looking forward to it I feel like this is in many ways similar to our episode that we did on invasion of the body snatchers Those those kind of nineteen the rise of science fiction and the nineteen fifties. And i know this is a film that you're particularly in love with so that'll be that's going to be particularly great. so ted. Where do you wanna start off with this. Fill up. i wanna start off at a very unusual spot There are four newscasters in this film. Who are the real And i remember two of them vividly From when i was a kid. And what cracks me up about all of them is they have to wear their hats when they're broadcasting which. I don't know where that came from. Or why but we've got drew pearson. We've got hiv calton born. We've got elmer davis and out. We've got gabriel heater. And those were all very very big names. When i was a kid. Because that's how we got. Our news got it in little chunks. Either on the radio and then in early television maybe fifteen minute chunks if we were lucky But i love the fact that these are the real is and they're all in the movie and they're they all give this kind of ring of authenticity that drew pearson has seen the spaceship. And wait a minute. Something is about to happen and so that that convinced just all back when okay. You know this is this. Is the real deal here looks. Let's get serious. Very that is not not at all where i thought we'd be starting this conversation. I'm glad that you that we are that we are. I do like the hats. That's a good point. Excellent in oh gotta keep the formalities. Even when you're delivering the hard hitting news. And i think it's in line with with a little bit. What i'm saying that you know these kinds of science fiction movies of the fifties these kind of used to be the fbi pictures. But in the fifties they had to elevate themselves a little bit and science science fiction films that were trying to take themselves more seriously were were filling that void and no better way to lend authenticity to the story. Exactly like you're saying to make it really feel authentic than to have those people there. You're here and something else and i don't want to. I wanna make certain this point gets across in the early fifties we were in a sorry state We come out of world war two harry. Truman was actually doing some wonderful things although nobody really appreciated by the way he always wore his hat because he was a haberdasher so that i think maybe accounts for those guys wearing their hats but the cold war was a very big deal. The the idea of the atomic weapon was clearly a big deal because trauma to drop the bomb on hiroshima nagasaki. And we did need talking to as a people and the movies stepped into that world. Now some of them also stepped into the world. The red scare. This movie really doesn't go there. that's not. That's not what this is about as we know from a the the one we together the invasion of the body snatchers. That's another matter this one this one this one in a very simplistic and yes. Sometimes highly reduction sway preaches. An awfully good message about folks. You better deal with some stuff or your world is gonna fall apart and that message did not. We needed to hear that message when we heard it very i. I can't imagine quite sitting through this film in one thousand nine fifty one very much knowing are feeling the state of the world. I mean it's so clearly speaks to the times. And i appreciate what you're saying about the politics of this movie because i think there's a lot of interesting things to say about this movie artistically. We'll talk about those and obviously there's a bevy of things to discuss politically. But what. I what i appreciate about. This movie is except in a very few areas. where it kind of conforms to the dominant ideologies. This film doesn't really draw distinctions politically. I mean obviously in the primary message of you know. I need to speak to everyone. Not just the united states despite you know landing in washington. Dc whatever but the but you know this. It doesn't really Demonize the soviet union compared to the united states. You know where both in this film kind of equally to blame or it's not going as far to point a finger at one side over the other at saying this is a world problem and and that's the incredibly restrained for this time and to as though to validate that point and i agree with that wholeheartedly. They even allow a wonderful joke about political parties when we're around the dining table at the At at they bend breakfast or whatever. You wanna call it what it said. Oh no they're not people they're democrats at at. It's very funny but it clearly is is given as a line about prejudicial view about things because this movie really wants us to put aside our differences and they go to great pains in the film to show different countries different colors of people different ethnicities of people that it's really quite a purposefully done in that regard right from the get go right from all the people that are gathered around outside in the mall looking at the ship we see different kinds of people and then those wonderful montage sequences that that show different countries listening to the news talking around their tables. Those are really good by the way. Let's just get this out of the way. This is really why should have begun okay again to the people responsible for one of the greatest movies ever made. Citizen kane are responsible for this movie. Bernard hermann who wrote the score and robert wise who directed robert will is of course edited a citizen kane but he goes on to do this and then he goes on to do some pretty big musicals as i think we know a bit later. You're taking the words right out of my mouth ted. I the story. No i love it. But what what captured me watching it as those montage. Sequences of news being spread around the world showing cultures. I mean it totally reminds me of citizen kane and the news broadcasts from around the world. I mean the man over wise knows how to put together. A news montage sequence. I mean he's just. That's his bread and butter. I mean it's like william wyler and staircases in you. Give robert wise a good. A good montage sequence around the world lead it up and max speaking of our buddy william wyler Leo tober the dp did the heiress which you and i have talked about in classic movie must and so you've got a really good dp really good composer and and a wonderful editor now director up and i had one thing about bernard hermann who i think is a giant among giants this score is groundbreaking because he used to thera moments which was very experimental at the time and a piano which he uses brilliantly especially at the very opening just piano and a very small brass section. If it's he doesn't overdo the music in the movie actually. There isn't a great deal of music the movie but when it's there it really means something. Oh it's it's so evocative. I mean the the music from this film and specifically usually surrounding those points of tension and anxiety around you know encountering the unknown i mean the the sounds that from this movie the soundscape. This movie is kind of what is cliche of science fiction. That's how much we associate this kind of music with the material. Did this movie in many ways started the cliche those cliches come from somewhere and when you do it just as perfectly as it's done in this film you know the there are several sequences where that music really kicks in around Gorton his and the unveiling of his visor or those moments in in those particularly noir moments in the elevator and the boarding house which are just so good. And we'll get to all those but the music is so much of that. It is so powerful. I wanted to. I did kind of a very informal pulp ted and it wasn't actually meant as a poll but yesterday when when we're recording this as a recording. This yesterday was the day. We did our patriotic zoom. Hang out and we're chit chatting with various members patriot community. And i told them that i was going to be recording this episode with you tomorrow and you know just kind of asking what people think of the day they are stood still and across the board. Everyone referenced the same scene which is like which is i think interesting in a movie that has many great scenes. And it's a scene that i think speaks to the power of this movie. And it's the arlington national cemetery scene. And i think that is the other aspect or the secret sauce of this movie that the science fiction is very compelling. And it's you know. It's it's quaint by today's standards. Obviously but it captures the imagination. But it's how science fiction elements cause us to reflect on. Our lives are every day. Ince's that i think really makes this film particularly powerful and there's no better than that than watching this boy telling him about his father passing especially again. Nineteen fifty one and the the nation is grappling with the the loss lots and it's done in the simplest possible way that these movies can do this shot of a building that says arlington national cemetery. You see the graves behind you. See the grave of the dad. And here's where. I really wanna give a shout to one of my favorite actors and movie and i'm not gonna. I'm not overstating this billy gray. Who plays bobby benson in the same year that he made this movie if you haven't seen on moonlight bay in which he plays the highly mischievous wesley and causes all sorts of mayhem. This kid is a really good actor and this movie. He didn't get to do his comic stick. Which is what he usually did. He got to do his straight stick and he. Does it really really well. In fact if i have one complaint about the movie i think he gets a little abandoned at the end. I thought he deserved a little more of the spotlight right up to them. It turns it over to the mom. And i wanna go. Okay fine but billy really is. The one who has the journey with ribs are are map and that journey so well played so sweetly played by him and this. He's just a good actor this kim. That's all. I wanna say it's a really great performance and i think i mean so much of the humanity in. This movie is grounded in the performances of billy gray and patricia neal who we obviously love chanel But she's so good. In this movie i mean they. They are so There's such real characters as cliche term is that is you know it's these these little moments of performance of Mr carpenter being there in the boarding house. Saying i'll watch your son for the day and her being like well thank you. But i don't know you but i'm trying to be polite and but i'm you know so many conflicting elements at play in. It's just it. It conveys all it needs to the the the boy. Obviously as well. I agree with you in a way that he does get a little bit short shrift at the end because as much as the final speech is given to the scientists. Because it's these men of reason curiosity who have to save the world really that speeches for the for the kid is here. Here's this movie is about that. The future of this planet rests in curious. Children like this boy in the in the kids who want to grow up to be engineers playing with their trains. Who are brave enough to follow a suspicious man at night. Which is a great sequence in this film of suspense and curiosity and all of these elements. But i mean that is the relationship in this film is is Clot to and bobby and that that knew it obviously has a paternalistic quality to it at for this boy who doesn't have you know. Lost his father but it really represents so much more than that as well. And max you just alluded to one moment in the movie. I just think it's such a beautifully chosen moment. When bobby pulls the train set out from underneath his bed and it's it's a train set the kind. I grew up where the kind i played with my american flyer. My lyonel. they're they're they are and then unclog through says. Well you know you can do without tracks. And he kinda wonders about how that might be done wonderfully simple mechanical thing next to the defying saucer at the mall is is just a lovely simp- this is a simple way of telling the story. And yes there's some plot contrivances that are you a stretch like we get the professor's name in the newspaper headline and then turns out that mom kind of in any way and we know where he lives and we can kind of go there and we can anyway but you know what if you handle those. Well we don't care because we are going with the larger picture. There is just a general sweetness about this movie right the way through even though there is some danger and even though gort can kill if he needs to his also very good wish he'd been around for never mind for some of the incense we've been having in this country just to get rid of weapons in people's hands but this is just such a profoundly not not overly sweet but decent movie with a very good clear still important message by the way. That hasn't changed that this message still holds true. of course. can't we have this get along. I may day go and much those moments. You talk about the train having it just you know. They're under the bed just for the sake of. It's the few seconds on screen but it so grounds the story and and it's so much of whose character is in the whole performance is it's so there's this quiet reserve but it's it's a graceful curious performance and it is specifically. Oh i see you liked trains. Let me tell you about trains. That don't need tracks and it sparks curiosity but likewise the the joy or the you know the happiness that can be derived from him inspecting a music box. And that's what. I say where you can have a film that has spaceships and autonomous robots and these things and we marvel at the train under the kids bed or the music box on the counter. And that is you know so much of science fiction is looking ahead and looking outward and having our minds expanded at the possibilities and then realizing that. What's so beautiful about. Our world is right here already. And then there's almost the macgyver moment in the the kind of flashlight. Which by the way. I had exactly that same flashlight. That the kind that you'll hold up this way it the the fact that here is the man for about. Her spaces traveled two hundred and fifty million miles but he needs a flashlight to talk to. And it's just a flashlight and so he's he borrows the flashlight. And we get as you say. That wonderful scene where bobby follows him. But how much fun is it. It's just a flashlight did you go. I love it again. It keeps grounding this movie every time this movie wants and i think you and i know that the science fiction movies that that live in in such a fantasy land that they that they never they they forget to ground themselves. The great ones always remember to ground themselves even two thousand one space odyssey arguably the greatest ever made grounds itself often. The guy has to make a phone call to his daughter from the spaceship and has to put money in the machine. I mean so it's like it's okay there you go absolutely right. It does and re returning to some of these other artistic sequences. Because i i find that the scene at night following bobby following mr carpenter the music kicking in and the right moments. It's you know this film does have a lot of noir esque very in line with atomic noirs of the nineteen fifty s. You know that fear the atomic bomb of atomic power. This film vary on the knows about that. And so it adopts the nor aesthetics in the right places the scenes obviously mr carpenter arriving in the boarding house in this obscene shadow. Unlike anything and you could say and you wonder from his perspective. How on everyone just knows. It's him it's clearly has to be the space man in the scene. That really gets me every time of course is the elevator scene when it just a catches me off. I know it's coming and it catches me off guard and it makes me jump the way it just you know if all of a sudden abrupt stop and that dark shadow and the the lighting is just. It's too much for. I love it. It's so good. Also being trapped in an elevator is not cool was definitely not cool. Even with patricia neal although up and by the way. I echo what you say. Patricia neal whether it's the fountainhead. Or hud or this movie. What a splendid actor she has and she went through some very rough medical stuff as you know in her own life and an handled it brilliantly up one of the thing about the the look and feel of the movie it first of all going to the moment you just mentioned when he arrives at the boardinghouse. No door opened that we ever heard. And and the way that they're the the way that that is staged everybody's watching the television in the sort of semi darkness and then when everybody turns in the beautiful way in which is completely shattered. And i agree with you. Don't you all know that's got to be gone guys at but it but what it does is in a kind of wonderfully quiet way sets up bobby goes with with the whole thing. You know. 'cause he says. Listen i bet you i bet you know about this face man. I bet you're fbi. I bet you know because you're at and an kids kids way of thinking about these. Things is so setup. That and michael rennie walk such a fine line of being both mysterious and at the same time quite plausible I do wonder a little bit. You know patricia. Neal mrs benson saying oh sure but that was back in the day difference back in the day. I hitchhike back in the day. I don't hitchhike anymore Nobody hitchhikers anymore. But we used to so there was a certain safety in all of that. So i i'm just i guess what i'm saying trying to say and maybe i'm saying too much. Is that at every. Turn in this film when you think it might make a false step. It doesn't it stays it stays and it's true to its own terms and that if you know what i mean. It's it keeps. Its story very simple. Yup now you make you make an excellent point and you're you remind me. I mean just thinking about bobby some more because i really do think so much of this movie hinges on the bobby character. Because it's it is what connects it to our our world our universe our planet I appreciate so much in the storytelling. That bobby is on his own kind of autonomous journey. Through this he's not being guided overly by any particular influence. He has his own agency right. He is immediately as you said suspicious and in a movie that is all about suspicion. Being you know highly problematic. The suspicions are what lead us down all these negative roads. it's what we see very Very clearly in hugh marlowe character. Stop tom stevens. He's on his own ambitious suspicious. It's me against the world. Kind of path bobby is on that path. He suspicious and it's up to him to say. I've now spent time with this person. And you know what i like them. I i'm making my own decisions. And then when his mother says you know we need to give this man some space and he sees something. He's he's on his own agency to say i'm gonna follow him. This doesn't seem right. And then when. I see when when he when he sees something he doesn't like which is claw to then controlling gort into hurting these two soldiers. He makes up his own. Mind to say maybe. I don't Maybe i've missed judge the situation and but all of these steps are him taking in information based on what you know what information is available and coming to his own conclusions and i think that is is something quite relevant to this story as well of saying you know being able to evaluate the world around you and change directions if necessary and again it all comes back to a very authentic performance in this young man here here and i think part of the reason he's given agency in the script is because they have this actor but that's yeah that's merely speculation up speaking of true speculation and i. This is going to be a big big stretch. But i just gotta put it out there and if it works for anybody kinda works for me. The fact that caught takes the name even though it's built into the script but he takes the name of carpenter and jesus was a carpenter. And i'm just i just put that out there. I put that out there because there is a sort of savior like quality. Took to this character. They if they intended it. God bless them because they never underscore that they never underline it they just let it hang out there for somebody like me who picks it up and goes maybe but i i well. I think there's no question that this film And i think it's to me it's one of the the detractors of the film is it's a kind of religious component and i don't mind as you said this story is a very. It's a story of this messiah like figure coming with information to save the world. The i like your connection with carpenter which you know is put it out there. Why not It to me it. It oversteps its bounds in a film. That really isn't looking to take sides except on the side of humanity when when he does die and then is revived and he says the power to give life and take it away you know is one of purely of the almighty power to me. That feels like the film's concession to say we're pushing some boundaries and we need to put a limit on this and so there's one there's one thing we're not gonna call into question in a film that calls a lot of things into question and to me that detracts a little bit from the overall spirit but i understand a lot of that's just the product of the times you're absolutely right and that's very fair criticism but you're also right. It is so much a product of the times that they they probably no matter how you look at it had no other choice. But that that's where they're gonna go with that story if god let's let's bless them. It's certainly doesn't get super heavy hand and it's it's it's it's the grace notes here and there but we are never bludgeoned over the head with a that kind of theological message anyway. I still the carpenter thing out there for what it's worth. I i like it. I like it. It's a good connection. I'm curious said since you were the one to to see this film back back in the day. When i was nine years old when you were nine years old. I'm curious what you made of the pivotal sequence while they're in the elevator talking but when the earth's still just this i mean it's it's a very clever premise of just removing all power from this universe and you get some really eerie disturbing beautiful Shots along the way. And i'm curious what your nine year old brain had to do with that sequence my nine year old brain i i do remember justice. One thing about my nine year old brain and by the way i might have been ten or eleven. I gotta hold it against okay so i wondered why the they the motorcycles wouldn't start as well i mean i. I didn't quite understand what have been stopped. I thought all electricity but then things that aren't electric. I got confused about that. I remember that and the other thing that the only other thing. I really remember from when i saw the movie was the robot. The robot was so cool that that was everything else. I don't remember. Damn thing about billy gray. I didn't identify with him when i was his age. I just i got all. He was a little older. But but i i remember gort and i thought it was so cool and i remember the flashlight the flashlight talking to gore. That was those. Were my first impressions. Gotcha by have you seen. Have you seen the the remake. I i know i. It's with the same this one with keanu reeves. Now now i. I haven't i can't even find it. I tried to look it up in preparation for this just to see how much they must have ruined it but i i. That's just speculation. been no or to be streamed. It seems to be have been generally assault. So that's never a good sign. But i like i like that. That's what your nine year old brain is on. Because i feel like that's exactly what bobby would have thought about saying well. A lot of these are like mechanical components that don't necessarily involve electricity so like because there's i believe a boat motor as well. That's not gone and i. I used to go to the ozarks regularly. When i was a kid and water ski and had an evan. Rude boat motor. And why won't it start. All you do is pull a rope. For god's sakes so i didn't understand that that confused me he's got he's got a lot of powers. That ship I do think the you you know you kind of alluded to the plot holes of this movie and they are easy enough to overlook because you get involved in the spirit of the movie and you understand okay. And at the same time i find. There's a quaint nece in kind of poking fun at them Exactly what you said. What gets me about the that particular sequence beyond why aren't certain motor starting because that does hit me as well is that like. Would you really sit there for thirty minutes trying. Because when when thirty minutes goes up everyone starts driving again. They've just been sitting there waiting for their cars to go foot on the gas pedal still clearly being like all is at some point. It's going to start going again. Thirty minutes later everyone immediately starts driving it stuff like that that you and that you know that they take the time and the effort which i appreciate it as well to explain things like oh we'll planes in the air didn't crash. Hospitals are still fine but but boat motors stopped. I like it's just fun. And speaking of blunt moments. This is a plot contrivance. As sorry one of the most boring actors on the planet namely hugh marlowe as hugh marlowe is leaving clot. Twos empty bedroom. He just happens to notice the rathers diamond. Just dick just dropped on the floor and there we get. The billy seemed a bobby. Seems to have two of those which doesn't quite lead where you think it ought to mean. What are we talking about. Except of course moral wants to hawk the damn thing except he doesn't. I wanna yeah but the fact that it leads to like diamond. Merchants assessing the stone value as the way to reveal that he is in fact. An alien is like okay And i i like him being like it's good enough for me but at the same time he this. Is this kind of suspicious person. Who wants to use things to meet his own ends. And you're like well of course he's not gonna actually wait for like real evidence. Circumstantial circumstantial evidence good enough for him. And that's a very in keeping with with his particular character We've talked a little bit. I mean alluded to the men of science. Being the the you know the hope for this film and i i do think it's worth doubling back to again. Nineteen fifty one the same year that the united nations opened. Its new york permanent office that we associate with the united nations and this film very clearly says the united nations is not enough. You know this is the united nations. Not that it's necessarily enough now but it's in. Its fledgling form under to the film buried directly to say these illusions of peace. That you guys are. Erecting are not sufficient going far enough and paul to keep saying i gotta to everybody i. This is not even the general assembly. If that's not going to be everybody i need. I need to talk to everybody. Or this isn't gonna work and my favorite exchanges where it says when he says we're going to be complicated getting all these people to travel and cloud says well i came two hundred and fifty million miles. Maybe you guys could work this out. Also here's one plot thing that does bother. I can't for a second. Believe that the president of the united states would not wish to meet and speak to this person that he keeps sending his rather his chief of staff who does look like carry chairman bug away and by the way a bit harry truman fan just in case anybody wants to get on my case for that tough. I'm from missouri or a truman's from missouri harry. Truman turned out to be a really very very good president. But everybody all all the official government types do tend to look a little bit. Like harry truman in this movie and very kind of boring man who keeps coming to talk to clot to. I love him. I says i call you mr clock to it. He says no no no just clot to. That's fine anyway. I i rambled but it. It's it's all it's all good. I mean the fact of the matter is is you can feel this movies. Kind of b b film lineage. In in where you know this is still early in leaving those double double feature films behind and this film is trying to do that does it. Does i mean it's a great movie but that doesn't mean you can't feel the fingerprints of a you know a different quality of production and so in a lot of respects. The story can be a little silly. It might have some plot holes along the way like the nurse and the police security guard. Who rush into the door already knowing. He's missing without having opened the door yet. They rush in from the outside. I don't know why but you. You can have those moments that lacks some of the polish but then at the same time you can have robert wise's direction you can have the bernard hermann score you can have. A tightly edited film. You can have performances. That are really top notch and those things can coalesce into something that makes us forget about the silly parts and really grab hold of what is an important film telling an important story about you know our humanity and its heart it has heart it cares and i long particularly in the time that we live in today. There are moments. I'm not just being a old person who longs for earlier times. But there's something about this sort of and simple straightforward message. That is that is delivered in a very professional way by people who know what they're doing and who take care to do it well and the act and choosing actors. who acted. well. I say hallelujah. And the movie that. I wonder if some day we'll we should do a comparison between robby the robot in forbidden planet and and gorge. You know who's your favorite robot gort mine. Just lay that out here. Put your cards on the table. Now now this is. This is this has been from the first time. I saw it today. A movie that. I just did touches me in certain ways and each time i see it now i do realize more and more and i think you agree that that because we get the story in many ways through the eyes of a child that that that that it gains a power that i hadn't realized that that's where the power was when i was a child. That's not where kids go with sort of thing. No of course. And now that. I'm under adult i i go. Yes that the purity of that kid and you use the right word. And there's another word. His suspicion and his curiosity he's a kid who has a lot of curiosity and even some bravery it takes some guts to follow him that night big. That's a lot of bravery. I'd be scared out of my mind but but this kid hangs in there and i think you just touched on something to me. That is a distinguishing factor in this film and it is in in certain respects claw twos one misunderstanding of humans and earth and perhaps the distinguishing element of our race and his own. And it's when he finally does meet the professor and he says you know oh professor you had you had faith to meet me and professor says it's not faith curiosity. That's what grounds science. And maybe that's the problem but klotz whose race has the faith in these robots that will destroy all of humanity all civilization if violence comes in and they have the faith in that system and as much as the film obviously does have elements of more traditional faith in quotes that the distinguishing factor of humanity is curiosity. And there's and that is going to be potentially a downfall but also the savior aspect as well. And i do think that's something that the film's celebrates about our humanity and you know separates us from the unknown. What else might be out there. And i do think that's kind of something that you know is a special undercurrent in this ville. They've that's beautifully. Put max and it reminds me that tickly in the early fifties these these movies always wanted to remember to put the emphasis on humanity on us. And what's good about us at as well as what needs correcting and what needs attention. But i just want to thank you for suggesting that we do this film. I know you knew. I liked it but Just the chance to talk about it and returning to. I hadn't returned to it in a few years. It's not one. I watch every other year. It's not that kind of thing. But when i return to. It was lucky because i just done my on moonlight bay revisit which i do watch once a year. I love on moonlight bay. It's so silly. And then and then the billy gray thing so a good for billy great. Yeah it just you. Just as we're wrapping up here it makes me think of another film. We've already talked about here on the show that i've done an episode on which is close encounters of the third kind to me. What makes that film so special. Is steven spielberg's effort. To view this close encounter of the third kind through that awe inspiring way that children view these things with that curiosity that openness and distinguishes between aw and fear and i think you see so much of that already in this film as how we need to approach these new experiences early in those scenes at spaceship lands. It's the it's the grownups that back away in fear and it's the kids that always come running up to take a picture and it's just that distinguishment between childhood and aw at new experiences curiosity and don't let your curiosity turned into fear. Cool very well put my friend. Thank you ted. Thank you max. That concludes our episode. On the day. The earth stood still. I'd love to hear what you think of this. Classic movie must feel free to tweet at movie. Must spont- email me at classic movie. Musset g mail dot com or dmc on patriae on thank you to our patriots producers. Eleanor b max on re pedro orion de jonathan bernie. Stephen scofield john. Kelvin lance whitney roger blackburn by robinson. David wasserman sarah shaw bill ryan more mcpeek shane carson and lana quake bush remember episodes. Released every friday on patriot. As well as the podcast service of your choosing on next week's episode. We are discussing the lady vanishes. Thank you so much for listening until the next episode. keep up with your classics.

barnhart bobby helen mr carpenter Bobby barada nico drew pearson gort bernard hermann billy gray tom stevens arlington national cemetery klotz robert wise patricia neal max baril Ted waltz Michael rennie patricia sam jaffe walter reed army hospital
Thomas Newman

Maltin On Movies

1:00:59 hr | 2 months ago

Thomas Newman

"Hi everybody we want to thank. Our sponsor legion. 'em they are a wonderful company. We love working with them. You can go to their website legion. 'em they're also on all the various socials they do really fun meet ups You can talk to directors you can become a part of the projects they choose the even. Have a program right now where you can help them find great movies to support so go to their website to learn more. We also want to remind you that we have a patriotic that we call multi on. You can join us. We have three dollar five dollar ten dollars. Twenty dollar options. You can get newsletters from my dad All kinds of neat stuff behind the scenes. Hang out with us. Learn about who our guests are before anybody else and listened to the podcast before anybody else go to patriot dot com slash maltin on movies for more information. That's patriot dot com slash maltin on movies. Everybody i'm leonard maltin jesse molten and. You're listening to maltin on movies. And our guest today was scheduled to be our guest just before a little thing came along called the pandemic and we were looking forward to meeting him in his home and having you know invading his as as his space and all that and he couldn't have been nicer but we have waited to do it till now and now is the time i get to say our guest is. Thomas newman yes. The thomas newman who composed all those film scores. That you love everything from james bond to finding dory when i like to picture. Is you sitting at a table with your family and you guys just like throw oscars at each other. You know. probably in the old days you know there were nine oscars on a mantle. At at the house i grew up in. It was quite impressive at your quincy. Jones used to whatever. I would run into in would say something about you. Wanted to take a bowling ball and set them all up and it is one of those things where you know i do. People always say to me you know. Is it ever stressful. Najia following in your father's footsteps i got no because i'm not trying to now you on the other hand my friend Is your family at all musical. You know the answer to that and sure do the funny thing. Is you know. The kind of sounded the shoemaker. There was something. I never set out to do I was kind of vague about my interest in music as early on as is going to college. My dad died young. So there was this whole specter of of that and of course my cousin randy and various uncles. My brothers and sisters And so i had to find my own footing for sure and it was. It took a while to do that. But To the degree that i finally did i i feel some degree of pride. You hope anyway. You should feel some sure bryan. If you're if you're not boastful we'll be. Yeah on your behalf. Did just to backtrack a little little exposition here. Your father was the great. Alfred newman not only a wonderful film. Composer multi oscar winning composer but also the head of the twentieth century fox fox music department and i think he was unique in there. I don't think any other studio had an actual first class now for twenty years. He ran the Department at twentieth century fox. He was also known as an excellent administrator. Which i think is what you're getting at is not only did he have that capability of working with players being musical composing but also organizational skills of handling of budgets. And things like that so Yeah i think it was unique. I didn't know that any of this at the time. Of course so this is. This is all learned after death. So sure i mean it's also it's your life you know in the same way that when someone you know is some mortar state you so randy newman multi. Oscar nominated winning all of this. You just go yet. That's that's my family. That's my and it meant. You know certainly an american treasure in someone one of my true heroes as not only a human being but Not only as a songwriter composer but also as a human being. I just after just so Several years ago at the oscar nominee luncheon. You were going to be interviewing him for entertainment tonight. And i'm standing with his incredible wife and he's about to go sit down with you and he and she puts her hand in front of his mouth Yet a cough drop in his mouth and he just sit into her hand and she is she close ones not now and i just let you go so all of us who work with our family. This is just normal right like this is just. This is just how we were. And i just loved. I loved that moment. And i will absolutely be treasury as one of the sweetest things i've ever seen now. Your father was not alone in his pursuit of music. No because his brother aimal was conductor. Composer arranger also worked at twentieth century fox and their brother. Lionel whom i did get. Some neat became the head of fox music. For many many years and I watch interviewed him for entertainment tonight in his office. And our our cassettes at the time ren twenty minutes video cassettes and when i finished. He said that's the longest. I've ever gone out person. Well there was that famous moment where he won an academy award for. Hello dolly and i think he cursed in his acceptance speech so he was known. Swear an really really funny guy too. I mean really really funny and your brother david a successful film composer and your sister. Maria hands her own path is anyone toned us then have to ask cia. Obviously you believe as we do that. Nepotism begins at home that would be. That's a logical conclusion. Now as you say you were. You're just fourteen when your father passed and so you you've had to learn and confront a lot of things in adolescence and young manhood in your career. But what was it like when you were a kid. I assume a music a house full of using a well there were certainly was. It was more driven by mom than my dad. I think my dad really didn't care if his children by this time because you know my mom was his third wife. He had a son with each of his first two. I was the fourth of five. So i think whatever kind of ambition he had towards progeny towards. His kids was kind of passing so i didn't have a lot of conversations with my dad about music. My brother david may have had a little bit a little bit more interaction. It was sixteen when dad died But there was definitely piano and violin. and i. I'm not sure how. I was at a certainly. I wasn't that good at the violin but there was yeah. There was constant music in the house. There's also my dad would have these salons like around thanksgiving where the hollywood string quartet we come over and play And that was. I remember kind of feeling slightly bored by listening to this chamber music at the same time. Like how amazing that this amazing group was was playing right in front of my eyes so it was. It was a unique kind of upbringing. Musically thing do you. Do you remember anyone who impressed you at whatever level or whatever job description or who made made a vivid impression. You mean from my father's era or just just me like conductors or teachers. Let's start with from your father's era. Well again. I was quite young and he was quite old. He was fifty five. When i was born so there was. There was a big kind of jap there. I think we were more interested in baseball. And and you know being outdoors and we necessarily were in in Listening to the things that he had to say he would go out to his studio. Which i kind of became my studio many many years later and i'd never hear him playing the piano. I hear kind of plunking and stuff like that. But i do remember bernard hermann coming over You know of course. Ken darby who was his associate and a great musician in his own right. He was my godfather and she He was the person who i think. Who designed the munchkin voices in the wizard of oz. And he kind of always believed in me. I think he really took the mantle of god godfather seriously on and My dad died in seventy and can couple of decades later. But i just remembered. She was very open to the idea that i had something in me. I mean probably. Before i knew i mean because i think you know. It's hard to corral this concept of imagination. what is it to be musical. What is it to be imaginative. As opposed to what is to play scales quickly. What is it took to recognize imagination or talent in in someone else. And i don't think i was very necessarily very good at recognizing in myself but i think ken darby really was. He could say one more thing. I pulled out all these documents. These things of my dad out of storage and i just found some original manuscripts from diarrhea of anne frank in. Ken had put it in a folder at said discovered by. Tommy newman in the attic. In one thousand. Nine hundred seventy three q. Is helping kind of keep the legacy of of my dad alive. And i have it over there. It's just it was a lovely thing to pull out a storage and say wow. Ken was thinking about me. Nineteen seventy three. When i had this interest in my father's work i'm up into this attic. And all these things down my my my i. I wanna ask you. Do you know how your father. And mother met. I think through uncle lionel. My mom was a goldman girl. She was a model. Your mother was stunning. Mortuary very beautiful And there was a moment. She went from new york to la. I think she'd been noticed. By samuel golden. So she came out and she was a goldwyn girl and I guess my. I guess my uncle lionel knew her and introduced her to my dad and they married in nineteen forty seven. I don't know much about that stuff again it was. It's all destined the attic for me because it's sure but have you ever watched season in four danny kaye movies. I've seen her. Can you can use pick around. i can. She's kind of in the background. You know. I mean a lot of the golden girls stuff in these movies is kind of just dressing right just beautiful and the ad brown. Walter media's is the one. I kind of remember the secret life of ultimate. He's seeing her in one scene in that movie but she gave it all up. I think took trace children. Lets you seem to have done all right with that. Now it's it is i always. I can't imagine what it is. So let's say someone like warren beatty where you can actually watch yourself grow up on screen. I can't imagine for you because your family is so entwined in hollywood history in music history. It must be a bit overwhelming at times. Just sort of get into all of these people in all of these places. It's i do it with tried now. Old days it was deep intimidation in in a sense of gang in a shadow. And i remember particularly with with my cousin randy. Just because you know in the seventies particularly when i was high school and college just just hearing him saying in hearing. Those songs was just so well formed so so stylistically precise so hysterical. One moment and just heartbreaking the next quite something to look up to as as a kind of know model up of eight nece randy at the time that you were a teenager was making a big impact. I mean short people. it's a masterpiece. Yeah well i mean so much of it is but i remember seeing uncle uncle amil. I should say conduct randy remember. Uncle was wearing purple socks. But it was get this was with. The universal amphitheater was still an outdoor venue. Yeah and i think it may have been good old boys. That he was touring with and there was a string orchestra that was conducted by aimal. And you'd go there and you just again. It was just so moving. I mean i just is very hard not to be moved by randy. Newman songs it's true. And that's part of what's so interesting again. Musically is that there are some people who are going to know that part of his career and then others who will only know him as the toy story man new man again. This is what is so fascinating about these long careers. Yes no review. When did you start to try to find your musical voice. Why don't think you ever try to find it. You hope i'd have role towards it. You know i. Although there are moments i guess when you do something and you think wow that interests might years is it about that. Where am i going. And how did i get there. And how can i get there more often. Than what is it that i like. What interests me. When i watched an image and put a bit of music behind it. What's moving about it. But on that level it was it was never like i need to have a personal voice. So much as what's good. What when interests might ears fundamentally And i think probably by the early nineties maybe ninety one ninety two. I started feeling like that voice was was more parent for sure. And i had i had more vocabulary. I had more technique. I knew how to get more out of players. I started working at the beginning. I think nights eighty three was when i began a you know started meeting players that content. I continue to work with today. That really helped me refine my sense of style. By sense of harmony. You know what is vocabulary. What is orchestration. All those things so It's been a big pleasure on that part of me. Movies have really provided me with just some amazing resource of individuals in musicians people with real real thinking people. I just can't imagine what it's like to put music in front of an orchestra like that and then here it and we're talking say we're talking about like ninety can be it can be over one hundred. Yeah it can three people. I mean and it all has its epic quality however all over large. But you definitely on a podium. It's a much different kind of experience than what it is. Just very casually to be in your own studio and talking one on one to to anyone musician. A whole different Skillset now do you compose on on. I was gonna say staff paper. But if i'm dating myself now it's fa. I do. i mean. I don't when it gets around to composing it's it's at a computer in lockstep with image as as is the kind of the way now but i have a piano and i still sit at it and i sketch and i do like the feeling of lead pencil on paper and the idea of erasers and rulers and all that physicality that analog aspect is very attractive to me again. I mean what you're talking about with finding things in the attic. This is the part that i i do wonder in future generations. are just going to have to go through computers. So that's so much to the point of a lot of my life. Which is what is the value of an object. Right as opposed to the value of the content of the object which is obviously. What a computer is it all. It's all the context content but to pick up a piece of paper that was written on by my dad. Or i pulled out. I pulled out so much of that attic of when when we had to sell the house and there was you know at some point. I realized that okay. My mom and dad moved into that house in nineteen fifty. And what were they going to do with their stuff right. They were gonna ordered into the far corner of the attic and as years and decades went by more stuff would be in front of it and on top of it and it would gather it's dust and i just knew that there was going to be amazing things to find in that attic. I remember seventies. What i when i pulled out that stuff. Dyer and frank also pulled out a letter from cole porter to my dad which i gave up handed over to Ken darby because all my dad's papers are most of my dad's papers are at at usc but it was it was just an amazing experience to To go through that attic and when someone's handwriting sure holding a piece of it is nothing like or just just the fact that so much time has passed and so much. Life has been lived in hero relics of that life which is just fascinating. Just totally fascinating. I teach the school of cinematic arts. And as i'm sometimes walking from the my my car to the north hall always got this wrong. It's nor theater frank sinatra hall. No no no no the opposite. Say no no. It's the opposite. Is the opposite okay. As i'm walking to norris fall north cedar as i'm walking out. You don't even teaching there for twenty three years okay. Don't ask a lot of questions. As i'm walking to cleanse on the thing he would he who fights and runs away lives to fight another day as i'm walking to class sometimes if it's springtime it's still light out and the marching band is rehearsing. And they're playing. Your father's conquest from captain casteel which planning since nineteen forty seven. Yeah i think my dad's signed over the rights to the school so that they can use it whenever and however they want to use it but jahmai moments at usc know real moments of pride. When you hear. That conquest sucks it's a touchdown song piece that they play. I think when the white horse comes out amazing just amazing. I'm not asking you to do a medley of your greatest hits. There's a story that i'm going to beg itsel. Tell us about your relationship with john waves. Well john williams and lionel newman. Were i think best friends. I hope i can say that. I hope john would think that a fair thing to say In the early seventies or mid seventies. You could go down and visit uncle lionel At his bungalow at fox around six thirty. Am and he would tell tales and You know have doughnuts and you know my cousins. And i would go down and it was just this amazing time and people would start to filter in as it got lighter and i would say goodbye and john always had a A piano in the back of the bungalow. He i think he wrote a lot of his. I mean some of his great seventy scores were written on stein way in that. Back room at the bungalow. And i'd gotten to know might and he was a he might father used him a lot as a pianist. So there's a big newman. Trying to john williams association in fact when they dedicated the bungalow dhillon element bungalow at up at fox. John spoke and he's such an. I'm sure as you know an amazingly eloquent speaker and there was a moment we i guess we were. They were doing a return to the djeddai and john Asked if i would be interested in orchestrating one. Seen this was terrifying. Because what did it mean to orchestrate for. John williams in fact it didn't mean much because it was so the sketch was so complete. That all you had to do was kinda go trombone trombone But i got to orchestrate the the death scene debater death scene In return of the jet. Well that's a lifetime. Credential turns out right at the time he was drawing your bone. It was a very generous bone but Yeah it's it's it's something to he. He remarked the year or so ago. Said you remember that you did that. I said remember the he can remember the on. Yeah and probably well you know. It's just probably a little tidbit but it was a very nascent stage of my career and very generous of him to even entrust me with it. So it's a it's it's a fun. It's a fun small story and then some years later you've got to step into his shoes so to speak when yes not when he was unable to fulfil commitment to steven spielberg which he had had had to do co. at thirty five years yeah he making brass mines. Yeah that was that was slightly intimidating. I mean in theory. I mean it was I mean steven. Spielberg is an amazing collaborator. As i'm sure you've been told by many people. I mean he has the total ability to make you feel like you are one of a team and that his reaction to the music you write music i wrote was one of a fan. I like this. I don't wanna like this more. You know it was all you can really see these great directors that they want. They want the feeling they had when they went to the theater. They want their movies to give them back that same feeling. And that was kind of how she interacted with me You know when when something moved him he was truly moved as if he were in a theater. Ev- a very generous collaborator. It was a little terrifying the first day at fox to just go out on the podium with that knowledge that he has this amazingly successful in long association with john But it was a. I jumped the hurdle. It was one of those moments. Wow i did that. Which was a license you did. Yeah yes you can't. When i say i can't imagine i genuinely mean. There are moments between the bond movies. Were similar stepping into those kinds of shoes where you can't rely on necessarily on what you do well so much. How well will you do in this. In the case of bond of franchise where her franchise is going to always win out over the individual or john williams. This legacy of relationship with with stephen where you just you have to kind of come up with it And yet they're they're real kind of flop sweat. Moments in mexico is in a building your own associations of course notably with sam mendes and early. He was a prominent theater director. Who is about to make his film debut so making debut and did you. Did you have to audition for him. How does that work. No i was working on a frank. Darabont movie called the green mile and there was a moment of hiatus in the green mile. Where on the i. I don't think they were sure if they wanted to dress. Tom hanks up as an old guy or cast an old guy so there was like an eight week period of like hold on and i was just interested in doing something different and i was pointed toward sam i think sam had tempt a lot of american beauty with this dan keyed movie. I'd done called unstrung heroes. And he was interested in that kind of approach in american beauty like progressive swaggie. Kind of thing that really pumped forward and we met guessing like nineteen ninety eight. The movie came out in ninety nine. I think on but it was a very short span. I think i think it will. American beauty in and out was like four or five weeks or maybe four weeks of writing and recording on really fast. It is and you know. I've said this before. But sometimes fast is better sometimes not conjuring your value not over ideas kind of riding the crest of the wave as opposed to thinking about wave out there is is a good thing is probably a good thing for me just to to not doubt myself. You know to to just to be able to say okay. You're i go right. And is it always demonstrated amazing leadership And and a sense of. And i think that's his theater background of always making progress. So if you didn't like something he would always try to steer me towards something he might like better. You really want directors like that who reject but still suggest as opposed to reject. Do that which you can get from a lot of people again. It's it's such a. It's a crazy thing to to be creative but have to be created in a cab. You know in something specific conduct. Yeah and as you say you have to. When you're doing something like bond. It's not just go play. Whatever you feel like it has to all make sense. It has to fit in and then there's an expectation of fan expectation for the music. Which would you can't ignore. So i want to say well i'm gonna do it my way. It is going get you in trouble to do. I point to your score for american beauty. Which was one of my favorites but i also use it as an example a what music can do for found because the opening shot. The movie is aerial shot. We used to call the helicopter shop before team in but it's an aerial shot of suburbia yeah ordinary suburbia. But then that marimba starts playing in a kind of a. I don't know ominous marimba yet but still repulsive telling you it's telling you about pace right. I mean if fully about pace and tone in what you're saying. Here's a shot of a city or suburb. And what does that even mean. So the music's giving you just a little bit more information about how to interpret that a lot more information you know in the first ten to fifteen seconds of that movie that this is not going to be a happy wholesome picture of suburbanites and you. You establish that both for words spoke. Did you ever think you'd hear your music on every iphone in the world. you know. it's not like well. That's that's a funny question because the iphone music is very american beauty. Ish ought not written by me. i mean very. It's very close right. They took the sound and then they put it on. I was working with john. Madden on. I think it was an ex best exotic miracle hotel and they needed a A phone jingle wanna like the the the iphone thing. So i write something kind of like the iphone saying slash american beauty and the word back is well not sounds an awful like like the iphone the existing iphone. What do you like. Well let me tell you why. Because i honestly never forget the first time that i heard it because some was standing behind me i heard it go and i went american beauty choosing i mean it and it's great but i was just like free or phone okay or like tempo in color is probably what they liked about it right the sound pops senate has a kind of buoyant tempo. I love get on i now. It's it's it's just so it's so cool and it is. It is music that has remained that. That's the other part of it. It's worse than the american beauty music. You hear it when you go places not just on iphones But you know it'll play in different. It's used a lot And that is so incredibly. Cool that it sort of it has quite apart from the film which it supports. So yeah which is kinda great right. I mean that's what you want. Is you kind of flowed in on a movie and you hope that what you float in on good or bad gives life to something else and it's kind of the great thing about movie music is it. Just it's it's it's a. I mean a platform is is a kind of a jaded cynical word but it's just it's it's an excuse for people to listen and if they like what they happen to hear will. Then you're in luck kind of thing you know so i'll take that when it when it happens for sure but it's true if it's not like everything else in a movie if it doesn't work if it doesn't sit and you notice it for the wrong reason that's a problem. It's yeah 'cause 'cause we've all had that had that experience where you're it's to roud you know or at your drought is a bad thing right. Because he walks you over right or watch is a harry from image right so but i my theory is. I've said this before that. If if the three of us looked at an image together with music under it we'd probably have a pretty good idea of if it worked and why it worked or certainly appropriate adjectives or words to say something about it. You know it's it's it's it's too colorful to too spicy. Do slow to do neutral. We could say all those things if you believe in the kind of the science of imaging music marrying right that on certain level what is it that make them one and ultimately involve us as an audience. 'cause that's the gig i want. I want like the movie right. I want to lean in and enjoy it. And i think that's that's where you you serve the director best where you help him. The mo- him or her the most is where it's a better movie now with the music. I'll yeah you know sense of usefulness. What kind of communication do you have. Was the director asking done. Three four five films together as you have with sam landis most recently nineteen seventeen. I guess right. I think it's the same dialogue. It's not like oh you know what what i like. It's never that you know it gets you in the door. It it it certainly. It's always nice to rest on. Laurels of past successes. But in the end it it has to work again and any new movie particularly nineteen seventeen has. It's it's it's complicated issues. That have to be kind of solved You know somehow artistically. What is tempa what what what is a division of music because this is all just walking and pointing a gun. Essentially right when does when does a feeling and when does it begin. What is silence. All those things are very different than you know american beauty or or road to perdition so all of that stuff just gets reconsidered and hopefully there. I think there's trust in the process Because of past past experiences but in the end no one's gonna say oh do what you want. Because i like what you've done in the past. I just don't think except me if only it did you know what is but trust trust is is the word because they you know if they have if they have a sense that you you want to make them happy you want to make it work and listening to how you're describing your job i feel like it. Would i get the sense that you're probably someone people liked to work with. But i think it's trust to a degree. It's it's it only goes so far and then it's just back into the baptismal font where you just. It's it works or a dozen or you know what i've said is the suit. The suit fits. But i hate the color i rented right but there's still something wrong and what is wrong. You don't like it as much as i do. Why i don't know why do you know why do i like something in you. Don't i mean that's the weird thing about music and everyone has an opinion about. I mean it's so visceral the experience of it that you know it's the kind of i don't know much but i know what i like. And then he's my husband's obsessed with metal. And i love him anyway. You know you just. I've learned to wear earplugs Now it is everybody. Here's different things by say. Everyone knows their business and music. But and i think it's true. You know i mean steven soderbergh said you know. There's a lot of elements of a movie. You know costuming. There's you know hair. There's production design. You don't see people for the most part coming in and talking about those elements which will always hear them talking about the music that was meaningful. I thought that was a meaningful observation. There's a famous Rubric about a plate of musical play being so bad that came out whistling the scenery. I've always liked. It's a good one. That's a solid one. it's fun. I keep careers. It's really fun. Look at sort of the the beginnings for you because you have things like revenge of the nerds and desperately seeking susan and girls on Know into something like the lost boys and then less than zero you know and listening eighties movies especially in those kinds of eighties movies. The music was vital. You know it was a song. So allow really. Oh we have a on montage stuff so the issue in those days was how do you do join. Try to bad. Laurie with the songs or you stand in relief of the songs. I think i had to learn that a little bit about what. What is the appropriate vocabulary for. That stuff was known as a sense guy that did gene comedies by eighties. monica But these are all these are all skills you know if if if what you have is if you want to call it like a jukebox movie you know In certain cases like you have okay but what about everything in between because it all has to fit. It can't be a we listen. I love this song here. It on the radio and then nothing is true but in in the early eighties. I've just gaining steam. I don't have so much music behind me. And here's my opportunities so all like i'm exercising a certain skill. It's all. I've got all i've got at that moment. You know is you are obviously not someone Who brags. And i. And i appreciate that but you see these are still kills because the average ear might not be able to do that. That's a good point. All i'm saying is that you you you begin with the opportunities you have and you try to make the most of them And i it was a fun time. You know it was it was a time when sequencers and synthesizers which i think really lifted me up. We're just beginning. And i was really learning what. What is my voice again. I'm contradicting myself. It's not like i said that. But i just knew. I had some talent in terms of what it meant was ideas what repetitive rhythms and harmonies. Were and what how that related to drama now in the film that's got a lot of source music. Who are you. i'm not. I'm not going to make an adversarial thing but who are you sort of parrying with the music supervisor. Or the director for yeah. I think it depends on the relationship between the music supervisor and the director if a close bond. You're always working with those people who have the most power and not because you're kowtowing so much as you just know at the end of the day. It's those people you have to satisfy so music supervisor has holds great sway over a director. Then you're listening to the music supervisor when editor the same kind of things. Anyone who's gonna be around when you leave and say you know. I never liked that piece. You wanna have in a room with you so that you can try to convince him or her of the value of it or you know that it's not gonna work you want. That's why facetime. I mean not facetime time together in saniora actual facetime is really essential. Because it's so it's so easy it's so much easier to read what people think when you see them you can understand. We praise versus genuine praise. I don't know what to say. So i'm going to say i kinda like it. You kind of say right. What what can i do to To make this better. You know as a good collaborator. I i have to hopefully weed out the bad ideas except the good ideas. I like the. We're going to be rejected for reasons that i'll never understand and then get somewhere you know. It's the beauty of what collaboration is at. Its best at its worst. It's hideous nightmare again. But then you get into stuff like shawshank and little women and so that's definitely not since heavy. I mean it started. It may have started more with set of a woman in nineteen ninety two or even it was in nineteen ninety one. I did a movie called flesh and bone which was a with steep club written and directed movie And i felt. I really had gotten somewhere stylistically in terms of use of struck and bowed bowls samples and string orchestra. And just what it meant to have a certain kind of small ensemble vocabulary and join it with a richer sound of strings and then and then instead of a woman actually being able to write a tune. They're heading levels a lot itunes before then you know but again. These are all these. These are skills that you're bearing and hopefully becoming more confident tend to. I mean yeah at the end of anything you think what went wrong. And how can i improve it. The next time and the irony of that is you never ever confront the same issues the next time around. But you're savvier you know you know how to talk to musicians better. You know not to talk poetically to musicians but to talk practically. That was something that i learned. Never say poetical things say like things like play with more space between the bose. That's what leadership on a podium is. It's not sharing a philosophic sharing of ideas so you kinda learn where we're your energy matters. You're getting older. And you wanna you wanna save your energy and because there are moments of extreme fatigue and discouragement. When did you start teaching well. I never really taught. I mean i do classes but you know. I think what i wanna do when i teach classes or like just a two or three hours with a group of students is deified the process because in the days of my dad and my uncles it was so miss. Mystical or mystifying. How do you do something what what how do you get tempo how do you. How do you have an idea. Where do you put the idea. All of those things were just baffling to me. So i wanna kind of get together with students and say it's it's not. It's not as hard as you think to have an idea and put it against something. And to have an opinion. About as opposed to scribe it and say okay a minute to two seconds every minute to seconds in doing this or that you know how what are the procedures that can make the process less daunting and also get more of your creative energy out there. As opposed to your sweaty kind of you know channel wax type stuff that oftentimes we think about as as we right you know what is the act of writing. gotten my way a lot. I think the long answer to a short question good. This is what this is why you teach. I'm you don't consider yourself a teacher. Because you very articulate describing. What it is that. You're trying to do what it is that you're trying to create and that that again is a skill it's something that takes time You know not. Everyone can articulate what their job his but also you know what they need to do creative. I think i wanna be kind to the imaginative self. More than any. As opposed to the academic self which is always daunted me. So that's what i want. Help teach people. How do you get the best of yourself out there before you start. Criticizing it before it is criticized by others all those things. how how. How does the very best of yourself move. Move into into the center stage of of things. Now i don't know in the end i think that's a a singular personal task that we all are alone in that but i i kind of want to encourage your shine a little bit of light on that. 'cause wow there are scary. I'm in the wilderness kind of moments. You know it's like five in the morning. You think on loss and i have to be done by ten at night or you know these moments of dire introspection. It's when when creativity becomes a job and you have to be creative on a schedule. You know that that is something that can be extremely difficult And you know what if you wake up. And you don't feel like writing reuse. Don't feel musical that day. Well if it's your job is not an option and and their nineteen musicians way down past day. Yeah you have to demonstrate leadership. Even when you're not feeling it you know you have to you have to make. The boat has to keep moving. That's true. I mean that's the reason. I never thought i could do it. I thought okay. It's it's a job where you're in you're in a limited time frame And you have to please others. I mean that's that's really scary when you've not done it very much you know. It's one thing to write it and it's another to write it well and another thing to write it well and still have it rejected and then and then to have to rewrite it you know and then until you exercise those muscles because early on i don't. I don't know how to rewrite. It's enough that. I wrote it at all much less to rewrite it. So you know the the lesson there for me was i. You know the fear. I had about all of that Ended up being way greater than the the truth. What which was. I could rewrite i could. I did have more muscle than i thought. But but you have to learn that kind of the hard way you know like i gotta finish this by tomorrow and i may be fired and it has it has to go through your mind and you have said well if i'm going to be fired i want to have tried my best. So that if it ends. I know it wasn't me pulling back from the experience out of fear but you know moving moving toward it as best i can. Now give us. We're lay people. I mean we're we're we're not. Well thank you. So we love music. And i went to. I went to school for music and my dad. My dad has been a jazz nuts and seeds a kid and so he says that. That's the thing you can't. You're not a layperson daddy. Not by a long shot. Play anything you want. And he'll tell you that so and so good here person on guitar and this is the so no i. I'm going to disagree with you. Okay you love music. I love music. What kind of things did you have to learn by being on a podium conducting the orchestra you already achieve composition. You've written it. You orchestrated it. It's imprinted out and there's an orchestra. What did you not know until you a lot of. What you don't know is that it's gonna arrive more wobbly than you would like that. You're not always hitting it out of the park that you're gonna come in and not. The experience of being on a recording stager in a control room is that it's not a relaxed environment to absorb an idea so you're a little bit in survival mode when you're on the podium. You're doing the best you can. You're shaping phrases you're hoping you get performances. You're going back in. You're listening but you're not so relaxed that you can go. Wow this is good right. You of can't get to that place you kinda have to trust that it's good or trust that you've done the best you can to get what's best in it out and it to that and then it's like i guess it's learning how to rehearse. Are you rehearsing strings. I wins or brass. What is the sense of a phrase. What is a crescendo in a day. Crescendo all those things. That kind of shape something. I think you're learning as you go. conducting such an odd thing. The yard waving your arms and if you're if you're good at it you look people in the eye right you're looking around and you're engaging them but for me i'm just kind of to shine. I'm kind of little Absorbed in the manuscript making sure. I'm counting correctly. But i'm a good listener. I would never have any aspirations to be a conductor Of any any in any other environment than you when i'm conducting my own music but i listen. Well i think i can. I can I can talk. Well i think i what i have learned is if you ask questions of your players more than say no up not down but up you. If you don't come off hoti and you ask questions you tend to get more from the from the players if if they if they recognize that you're out to make good music as opposed to come off as a such and such And i don't think i could come off as such and such in any event but You know how do you interact. How do you. How do you make something better. How how do you if you ask a question as opposed to give an instruction because given instruction it's it's over arched in its in. Its next moment so you say what about this. No i take that back you know. And then people have the idea but you're not asking them to execute that idea you know like so so that you don't overreach by accident because over correct i guess would be the better words when you when you try same again you over correct and it was better the first time well all of this. What do we know what makes a good boss. Someone that inspires people to do their job. Well for sure you know you're you're jackass. No one's going to want to do what you know. No one's gonna karen as you're saying especially when ashore rockstar less unless you are in a position where you say. I am so good at what i do that. I don't care what you think of me. But i never could and wanted to be that person i mean. I don't want you to be that person. Engagement as opposed to kind of stern instruction instruction is probably a hallmark of the way in which i try to lure ideas out of others. Now you've chosen to conduct your own scores their other composers take the role conductor and they sit in the control right Explain explain how that works out. Well the reason. I wanna be out on. The podium is a couple of reasons i again. I think i can rehearse my own music. Well i listen well. And i'd rather be out with the players if i'm part of me. Feels that if i in the control room with a director every time i see a director rubbing his chin her chin thing. I don't. I don't want to be there for that digestive moment where someone's coming to terms with what something is as it's going down. I'd rather be out there making it as good as i can. And then saying what do you think and then certainly that come in and get instruction there are other people. Just don't wanna do it you know. It's maybe they they don't count as well. They don't hear as well and they would rather leave the conducting to someone who they can say. Gee the horns it. Measure such such were Slightly flat or. Let's make sure we're in tune or anything like that and then those instructions are given by a hired conductor. But i for sure. I think prefer being out out with the the the mass and you will also always done your own orchestrations right. Well no i work with orchestrators. For sure i mean i know a lot about orchestration but the just the proceed procedurally in just the way things work. You have to hand over sketches to in orchestrator who in turn kind of flushes everything out into a full score gives it to a copy to print at all. It's just part of the procedure. But for years. I worked with a guy named thomas positive area a fantastic composer of opera composer in his own right and really amassed orchestrator and then since two thousand eight one of the great guys. Jack redford who i've worked with a kind of just consistently for fifteen years now or something again. This is all there are so many pieces to everything you know. There's a very specific way. I'm always and obviously this is jobless existed government session musician from people like the people that you work with. I'm always blown away by their talent yet at someone sits down you handle music and may just go. Okay now. it's a yeah and not just not just in sight reading the the whole thing of it's not like they just plunk it out you know It's a it's all. We love music. What is true is watching all. Yeah i mean it's really true. Mean all these people you know. I'm going to spend my life blowing through wooden tube you know it's like wow that's so whimsical ridiculous in gorgeous beautiful. All at once. Or i'm going to pull horsehair across the string so it vibrates in. You know the the wonderful thing about music. It's wonderful and terrible is that you can't do it without others. And that's a terrible thing on the one hand. I can't do this without you. And i'm angry with you because i can't do it without you and yet i'm so great. I'm so grateful that we can get together and commune and have ideas together and try to improve something. It's it's really kind of. I guess it's any Any of the temporal arts. Any of those arts in which things happen what that involves others. It's it's it's a it's a beautiful thing it's a very human set you know with with all its news but they hands down the most difficult part of the pandemic of for me and for my sela musical nerds is we miss singing and playing together really silently. I miss being in a room with my friends and singing and playing and being ridiculous and and you know that's that's the part more than anything else and yes there's zoom and their space time. There's all the rest but there's just nothing quite like sitting there it's tran. One year is is on the piano. Doing god knows what happy birthday event. And you're all just joking but you're together and you're making music and immigrant more. That's that's the part that has been the most difficult to to invade the life of musician or a singer singer ears particularly choir singers or brass in woodland orders. You know where and even now you know. I've been back. I was back at fox Like maybe six six or seven weeks ago and they've they've put the stage on a different access And people are sixty two part in so it was like a forty piece string orchestra but there's just really wide and everyone know these kind of plastic partitions between everywhere. It's it's it's you know. Yes we're all in the same room but it it wasn't it wasn't like the old days for sure mass or saying heidi go. Who is this your behind a mask. B b hands down the most useful part of me having rainbow harun rainbow. Tattoos is and. I'm one of the only people that my friends go so easy to find you right. That's right that's right. I have to just you know as oscar and we send the horse. Whisper meet joe black american beauty the green mile erin. Brockovich will walking the mile Pay it forward in the bedroom Road to perdition white oleander. Finding nemo angels in america Cinderella man jar head. Little children towel had wally revolutionary. Like this is ridiculous for others. The adjustment bureau the hell the best exotic marigold hotel the iron lady like. Are you tired. Because i'm tired jing's james bond stating mr banks which was huge. Of course get on up like it did. This is absurd. It is this is inspector spectra like i just can't and this is your life. I'm just scrolling this. You actually did all of these things. Yeah yeah i do. I do enjoy work. I mean it's i again i. I love that. There's resource to gather with others and have ideas. But yeah i mean. I guess going towards forty years in my career right to i guess twenty three would be like forty years doing it which is slightly terrifying to ponder on. But it's been busy. It really has been busy on in when you read. That list off dislike. Wow yeah can even start in the eighties on that. All like i inevitably i have to ask you have three children or any of them. Interested in pursuing my daughter just graduated from the film's going program very talented composer We're doing some work together and and I think she's quite quite gifted but her dad. I confess so never worked with your family man. As if i see nice and what is. Your daughter's name julia. Julia newman. So that is the nets newman. Yeah that we will inevitably see her name up on a big screen. I think she deserves to be there. Hiding is it. We did some improvising together. Yesterday she ended and a musician of web known forever and it was it was just all of us. Had enabled ten is able to live program so it was just making noise was lovely to be doing it with With julia for sure wonderful and have you ever found yourself conducting your father's twentieth century fox fanfare brother. Dave did because i think that the the most recent version i miss must be like fifteen or twenty years old. I went down to fox when they recorded it. So i have not. I don't think i've conducted my dad's music. Unlike one occasion i think palm sunday from the robe Trying i mean. I do remember wait. It was it was. I guess i was doing road to perdition my brother. Dave had re recorded the fox logo So there was my brother dave. According to fox logo in there was my music coming at it was just kind of this weird kind of moment of new. Neum addition issue no nationality. Now if anyone listening doesn't know what we're referring to it's okay. We got interview. James l. brooks the other day and i told him. Have you seen this movie. You know the one with the dome. The of the yeah. I have okay. I did tell james l. brooks that now every time that That everytime plays all. I can hear is routes because if you remember at the beginning of the movie row steps out in front of that. Big all logo and goes. That's now all i hear you know. I think my daughter julia was julian. Who told me that on tick talk if you go to nothing about. Take talk in the twentieth century fox logo. You hear like people with egg beaters and people like doing this. Incredible thing with that. yeah. But i think it's probably made most famous even heard it forever for the beginning of star wars right of that kind of really cements. Its i guess it's command of like get ready. I that's the thing about a good logo is if it's loud and if it has wit and in high and low it focuses the years right. It's it tells you what loud is So that when something is quiet you have a context for what that is so many of these locals logos now are so moody and piano ian. They they don't separate out from a movie as much. Yeah no don't they're wannabes. Yeah now logo. I mean who knows where local even means anymore because now there are so many like seventeen there must have been like seven or eight logo crazy. It takes a village. Yeah he's our favorite is the beginning and you wait to see just how many there are and it tells you how long they've been working on it because it's gone from that to that and it's a it's a little little dull isn't it. I mean it's it's your. It's it's a little a little loss of excitement. Just 'cause you've had to wait through all these these a berries production companies. Did you happen to see a friendly. Woodson's a series of pretended to city. No i heard great things about it though. It's pretty wonderful. And it's produced by. Martin scorsese who's also in it quite a lot and it opens and his kind of threaded through the entire six part series Your father onscreen conducting that haunting sleet seen. The beginning is at the beginning of how to marry a millionaire house right. In what context do they use. That is that just a new yorker shenice of it or yes yes and other. It's an injury. It's a giant end joke for for me. Box and the music butts is they. Don't explain it if you don't know that that's what you're listening to or why you're watching a. Dressed up orchestra. was a conductor in tales. And you know for very formal. You don't know what it is. Wow that's what that's scorsese's favorite joke. It is dry. Humor is at irony is it. What's the context of hearing it or is it just that this speaks of new york city. This speaks of new york city right as it did when he composed at nineteen thirty one. Yeah you know. I have a picture of a signed picture of king vidor that i pulled out of the attic right which You know it just says to. Alfred newman for our. I you know was was our daily bread. I may have been street scene. I think that was the first. Yeah yeah so i have. I have a photo of king. Vidor like in a sailor's outfit like on a sailboat. Or something. I'll how cool. How very very cool tom. It's so nice of you to give us your time today. Man you guys are great. You guys are totally great. I've totally enjoyed myself while. I'm so glad. I'm so happy. And i'm happy that The newman and music will continue to be all your anonymous while man for many years to come. We'll thank you. thanks for having me. I really do appreciate it while we we appreciate all music really and truly at as does apple. I'll call him. Don't worry it'll be fun. No it's a pleasure to speak to you and and again we love music and we're so grateful to folks like you who have created such beautiful things and really brought these to life in a way that they wouldn't you know music makes them. It just does say so. Good an honor to do. It really has been lucky. Thank you can continued success and as much as you want. We'll thank you. Hope to see you guys soon. Same here and i all right guys. Thanks so jesse. Until next time where can people find us. You are at leonard mall. i'm at jesse maltin on twitter and instagram. You're also on facebook. You can always go to leonard. Maltin dot com for movie reviews book roundups and all kinds of good stuff and then of course there is patriot. All sharia patriotic dot com slash maltin on movies patriot dot com slash. Maltin on lewis. And that's where you've been helped support us doing what we're doing and we appreciate that very much muchly muchly. Everyone be say and see you next week. Today's episode of maltin on movies is brought to you by legion m. the world's first fan owned entertainment company. If you love movies as much as we do why not own a piece of them find out more at. Www dot legion. M dot com.

Ken darby randy Thomas newman twentieth century fox lionel jesse molten Najia twentieth century fox fox oscars aimal fox music bernard hermann Tommy newman samuel golden john Walter media oscar
Episode 524: The Black Hole (1979)

The Projection Booth Podcast

1:23:30 hr | 3 months ago

Episode 524: The Black Hole (1979)

"This is the story of the black hole. You can read along with me in your book you know. It is time to turn the page. When you're the chimes ring like this. Let's begin now. You look people pay good to see this movie when they go out to a theater they walk. Cold sodas popcorn in no monsters in the projection booth. Everyone for ten podcasting is boring There is an acceptable force. In the cosmo's time and space. Please be on out of his reach. The most mysterious awesome poynton the universe with the here and now forever unavoidable space swallowing everything in its power radio. Waves even planets and star. Are you program to speak dan. Got us about to enter. Journey begins where everything in welcome to the projection booth. I'm your host. mike white. Join me once again. Is mr david kitsch. A journey which begins where everything ends and back in the booth also is mr l. Goro guess i'm happy to be here. And i shall now conduct the rest of this episode using my completely unexplained power of esp with a little animations in your eyes. Yeah yeah apparently robots no esp to ensure you know it works okay. Look there advanced their advance. Don't question don't question mike. We're doing the black hole. Today we got the question. No question questions improve upon perfection sifi month continues on the projection booth. What the look gary. Nelson's nineteen seventy nine film. As david said the black hole it's the story of a group of astronauts who after an unscheduled course correction run across the missing ship. The cygnus which is in stasis just outside of a massive black hole is something of a retelling of twenty thousand leagues under the sea with maximilian. Shell playing captain. Nemo by way of dr hans reinhardt. We're going to be spoiling the heck out of this movie. There's a lot to talk about when it comes to the ending of this. So if you haven't seen the black hole check it out and come back after you have it's on disney. Plus we will still be here and we heartily recommend it. You need to do this. Go watch it right now and then come back and be warned that there's an orchestration that just starts so it's just music over black screen. It's an overture. D- classy movies didn't overture. We'll get into it. Normally they say overture on the screen this just as black with music. That's disney home video. They're like fuck it yet. It out there. Al gore one was the first time you saw the black hole. And what did you think. I had to have been about five or six years old. We actually rented this from a library of all places and even at that age is into science fiction and any sort of things star wars related. And i just grabbed it off the shelf. It's like hey mom can i watch this dropping. The black hole on five or six six year old is a terrible thing to do to a child and for years the only memory. I really had of this. Film was the harrowing final sequins. When i discovered that robots can indeed go to hell and yeah. It's kind of always been with me ever since and david how about you. The year is nineteen seventy-nine. My mother who does not allow me to see. Pg movies has decided. For whatever reason. I guess because it is technically a walt disney productions movie to take me to the black. I don't remember if my brother was there would have been three and a half years younger like Like three or four. I went to see this movie in the movie theater. And i have never ever forgotten it and and if you've seen the movie you can understand why it is a Rama -tising movie for a young person. But i will say it has permanently affected my approach to cinema as a filmmaker and as a film lover. It it absolutely has like where my friends and other people were into star wars. Which i just. I did not see that i run. It was just a little too young for it. I was into the black hole. I thought the black hole was so much cooler and deeper end to this day. Has i'm we're going to get to this. I hope has one of the most or possibly the most horrific scenes i have ever seen in film. Truly it creeps me out to this day and it might just be. Because i saw it when i was seven. But there's a scene that just freaks me the hell out and if i ever do anything in any movie that is that effective i will probably die happy. I think i might know what senior talking about. But we'll definitely get their unique. It's the one that every every child has been permanently. It's the close up a dude under the mask and it's har- fi yang. That's not the one. I was thinking i was thinking anthony perkins holding up. That binder is the same scene. It's this he gets cuisinart right after that. And that's the first time i ever saw a major character. Im seven a major character. Dying brutally onscreen awol disney movie. I don't remember the first time i saw this. I think it must have been on cable or vhs rental. I told the story couple of weeks ago. When we're talking about the empire strikes back that i was really into star wars and rather getting any sort of star wars paraphernalia from some of my relatives. Got a Set of black hole sheets in a space nineteen ninety nine blanket. You're cool before it was cool. I was very off brand with. That wasn't too happy about that. But i definitely was familiar with the black hole from sleeping on the black hole every single night. There's a job in there i was. It's pride month and as the obligatory gay man on this podcast. I feel the need to make a black hole joke right now. I'll come up with it later. But mike sleeping on the black hole every night. It's okay we'll check back later. I'll have somethin'. I'll have so. I have to pay for it. I'm just enamored though with with the idea that wall somebody was into star wars. You head space. Nineteen ninety nine in black hole. You were like the k. Marts of science fiction fans. And i absolutely love it so much more. Textured i remember in little snatches of images i definitely was way in to old bob and vincent Really like maximilien. So i was all about the robots in this and of course ernest borgnine cast. This movie has just amazing top to bottom. Just these i mean none of them are necessarily what you would classify is huge huge stars from a box office perspective but they just have such incredible character. I mean even joseph bottoms who is Kind of the most generic out of all of them. He still has these great little moments in this movie he. He plays joseph bottoms basically two steps back and set the stage for for our listeners. Of what was going on. Not only in the culture but at walt disney studios at the time when this was happening so like basically This film had been in development a long time since one thousand nine hundred seventy five. I think i read seventy four hours from whatever your okay. Basically it predated star wars by a lot and basically what happened. Was one star wars happen and i know this because i'm making a documentary on another film that released in nineteen seventy seven. You cannot under emphasize how much star wars changed. Everything in hollywood and this comes two years after a change everything in hollywood because before jaws. These movies were like opened in basically big movies. I'm talking about a picture studio a pictures. They would open in cities in a few theaters. And then if they were successful They would spread out in this organic way and that way they kept the marketing costlo and and they can they can engender hits kind of run these movies for like a year and a half you know pre home video basically and what jaws did which was so crazy is they decided universal so so high on this movie off of a couple of preview screenings that they were like all right. We're gonna open this movie in like hundreds of theaters at once and hundred. There weren't really thousands of theaters to open in the seventies that was wide saturation released. Like seven hundred eight hundred theaters or whatever it was and so. They decided do that and because they did that they had to have a big marketing. Push which was a lot of money. Everyone thought they were crazy. And then jaws became the biggest hit. Ever it beat everything it'd be gone gone with. The wind was the record holder for a really long time. Because it would just running running run but the godfather think was number two. The exorcist was number three and and josh just obliterated everything like obliterated and so everyone's like oh wait. We need these big event pictures. And then what happened with star wars was star wars obliterated jaws in this way that was like even more profound and so every studio every single studio was like what sifi big budget movie. Can we do to like blast. The audiences across the the country in dolby stereo because that apparently is what everybody wants and what disney did because disney was in this weird place. They were in a slump They they had not had a very big hit. Since the late sixties. I believe with the jungle book which was a very big hit was the second highest grossing movie of the year but all through the seventies. They were doing these cheap live action movies which i personally love and mike. I will say if we could do a series. On the ron miller era disney live action. Movies get far too. Few of them are up on disney plus. Some of them are a lot of them are not unfortunately. But you got stuff. Like north avenue regulars no deposit no return freaky friday freaky fridays. One of the more better ones and literally like three or four dozen movies. They would do for very little money. That was their business and so when they said they were wanting to scifi movie and have it cost twenty million dollars which was by far the biggest budget moving in disney history. Basically there were these people fighting within disney about what the movie should be should be dark sci-fi movie like the whole genesis was a very dark captain nemo twenty thousand leagues under the sea where these people come across the ship run by a madman who's obsessed with the black hole wants to go in their mutiny craziness stuff happens. And that's that's the movie. This originally started before star. Wars was around the original impetus for this was to make the bigger and better disaster film because this was the age of disaster films. So my wife's watching this with me yesterday and she sees ernest borgnine. She's like is this before or after the poseidon adventure. Oh way after. Yes but this is definitely influenced by the poseidon adventure and that was supposed to be. The thing was like this was poseidon. Adventure in space was like there was a disaster on space probe one and now we have to get these people back and now rather than you know because it was like the airport movies to where it was like. Okay well this one. Crashes here or this does this. And you've got a one of them crashed in the water and then you've got the concord and they're building up to kind of like the fast and furious movies. They're building up to go out into space and they had airplane to basically made fun of that but there were other films where they were getting close to going out into space and this would have taken the disaster movie out into space. So that was the original thought of this kind of morphed. I think as it went through. Like i mean what. A dozen writers worked on this thing throughout the years. It definitely felt like a and what's fascinating about this movie just saying that the fact that it does exist at the intersection of these big crests of of blockbusters. You know you. It was originally intended to be to be capitalizing upon the disaster craze. But as you said star wars changed everything and the reconfiguring of this into a vehicle that would be closer to the sensibilities of star wars from that original disaster movie. Mold it leaves a very interesting film a slightly uneven film but a very interesting one. The thing about this movie and then is the tone of it and what it wants to be so schizophrenic and crazy and that's really i think one of the reasons that i'm still fascinated by it because it you can see the disaster movie origins and speaking on that actually you can't under emphasize how not like disney. That approaches a bigger budget movie on an epic movie a disastrous. None of these. Things are walt disney so for them to take this on their taking on something. That is way way way way way out of their comfort zone which is why then you see. Oh there are a couple of cute robots for kids. Go like you know. Oh but there's a madman who literally murdered his entire crew. Oh my god. It is a really dark twisted movie. That like ostensibly is for kids because you have these cute robots and like space battles and stuff but then you have like again. The most horrifying was her liquids. As i've ever seen in a movie and this doom this this incredible sense of doom. That permeates the entire movie up from like about five minutes in where they like. See the ship and jon. Barry's score by the way we we have to talk about that. Because john barry score is really a lot of the the. The tension to this movie comes from his massive not like john williams at all or casserole bombastic crazy amazing score with a gigantic production for disney. Took over everything. And and it's this weird like dot kids movie not it's a sci-fi movie but is like dark light like don't even know what to do with it and even to this day watching it's just like it's it's kind of like having a steak dinner with spaghetti on top of it or something it's like it's like weird. It's this weird they it's like okay. It's unique and everything's done well but it's like and then and then there's the ending which is a whole nother conversation which we need to have which nobody even the lovers of this movie like me can really defend this ending. They didn't know what to do. It's amazing that gary nelson this because he was not the sci-fi guy the previous movie that he had made. That wasn't a tv movie was freaky. Friday which is little science fiction. Low magical that kind of stuff. But it's not like he's the steven spielberg or lucas of his day. You know it's not like they're even going to like another like a robert wise. No but this was the disney team. I mean you know you look at frank. Phillips a shot at fairfield is a very renowned cinematographer but he basically did a lot of those cheap as disney movies. That like you know look like you know. They were shot in two seconds. I mean and this all has to do with in the name. You're going to keep coming back to is a guy named ron miller. Ron miller was disney's son-in-law i think is that right. I think married his daughter if i recall league football guy football guy and he was as big like intimidating dude who was in charge. I believe of disney production. For a least. I don't have it in front of me but i had to be at least fifteen years because i want to say. He came out of it in the sixties. When the dexter riley movies kurt russell dexter riley moves were happening. You can see his name on those credits. But he was producing for disney all up through the black hole past the black hole and into the early eighties before he left but he basically his whole thing was. You want cheap. We're gonna shoot it in frigging burbank. If it's not on the disney it will be five minutes drive from the disney lot. At the end of the north avenue irregulars which allegedly takes place in new england. You see clarice lebron and all these women with the big you know car chase passing by signs of literally have the one thirty four on them like literally one thirty four pasadena literally and framed like they did not care. They're just like yeah. They're in connecticut with a pasadena in it or whatever. But ron miller was not some guy who's going to spend a lot of money or take a lot of risks so for this movie to come at a disney. This indicates an enormous amount of of forces. That were all. Probably you know colliding with each other to make this mishmash of a movie and it is that sort of disney house style. The two were alluding to their. That really does define a lots of the technical expertise of this film but also with that the disquieting of the disjointed view of the film of how flat a lot of the cinematography seems. I mean it was describing this film to friends of mine who had never seen him put put in this way. This film was released the same year as alien and yet it looks like it came out a decade before it was made on double the budget of alien and it looks like it costs half as much and so much of that and so much of it has to do with the way it was shot and i'm not counting the special effects and the incredible mat work that was done in this movie because from a technical standpoint. There's a lot of spectacular craftsmanship in this movie but so much gets drawn down by the kind of bog standard middle of the roadway of shooting. And i that it feels like it's so much of a piece with what disney was doing because as you said this was an in house production they they forced none of this. It all came directly from disney. Even to the point of which. I believe in correct me. If i'm wrong in this mike but this is something that i remember reading and i hope it's correct. I believe they tried to license john. Dykstra motion camera setup from that he did on star wars. He either wouldn't let them wanted too much money. Which theron miller would probably be any money and so disney spent a ton of money making their own motion control camera rigs and it was called. I think aces outright or my getting raises was and and it and this was a lot of are indeed. These league motion control shot in the seventies is not something no especially a full like not for miniatures. I mean because a lot of the tie fighters and all that stuff you see that. The motion control cameras. Those are stripped down cameras. That were that were. That had the word on blimps means that they had no soundproofing on them because he didn't need it. All sound is going to be restored for star wars. but it's like the black hole. There's one scene where they're having dinner literally the camera dollies laterally across these people having dinner so it's a full camera and there's dialogue is probably a loop but it was a full camera and it's out the window you can see the background of the gigantic spaceship which moves proportionally to that camera. There is absolutely no way. They could have done that without motion control. You're talking about the flat. Look it's like that. It's it's less about a flat. Look more about a risk averse. Look it's like they. They they simultaneously wanted to risk a lot and then risk almost nothing depending on what aspect you're looking at. It's it's very odd. I mean in those days in the seventies there were still running movies at drive ins a lot. And so if you shot a movie too dark and you can read. Francis coppola talks about this. With gordon willis when the shot the godfathers print those prints out because it wouldn't show up at the drive in which of course degraded the image. So disney was always very especially the disney productions. Were always very very neutral looking. Like everything was properly lit. There weren't a lot of like high contract alien of god. It's like you know all like key lights with shadows and almost fill half the time but the black hole is like this. Everything is lit ev. Even when there are shadows it's like they're grey shadows. They're not pitch black shadows where the spaces even the way space looks. You were talking about peter. Shaw's insanely beautiful work And we we have to go into that because the mats and the models and miniatures on this are i think of legend. I think anybody who ever wanted to get into this kind of special effects. This is one of their movies that they go to because it's just so intricate and gorgeous and lovely but even space isn't black. It's like this purple blue. It's like it's like you look at it. And especially on the transfers the hd transfers if you see a print it's not it's it's not as printed up in it shouldn't be. It's a little too bright on video honestly like even with disney plus and everything. But it's it's. It's this tactile approachable space. Like you know like all of these rooms are like you know they're utilitarian but everything is so lit its own kind of very unique and strange style. I mean i do like the stuff that shot on reinhart's ship where feels like there's kind of a key light way up above and i think that that stylistically very interesting but then there are other parts were just like okay you know when they go into like the cord or some things. It's just like yeah. It is very very flat and even though they are doing some great special effects. There are so many times. I'm just god. This looks like it was shot in front of a blue screen and it doesn't look that good. There's a moment when they're on like a trolley going at ao going along. And i'm just like okay. Yep i can really see those lines on everybody. Having event news hair that the lines of that were really kind of chunky. It's like okay digital composite halo that show around. Sometimes when it's not done quite right. There have been aspects of kind of keying out since like the nineteen forties with song of the south. It got much better Again with disney With mary poppins. They got really really good at it. But even in the seventies these were still obstacles and these were still like you had to run through the machine and see if it worked and if it didn't work your run it through again and you tweak something and you try to line up. This was all very trial and error and the boreas and time consuming and expensive. But i mean you know as compared to those gigantic sets or those maps or or anything else. I mean this was also the first digitally recorded score. I believe in in history or something like that or one of them. Yes what. I was reading about the it was. It was certainly advertises that i couldn't find verification on it but that's definitely something that they put forward in the marketing for the film to read that story. That's in the liner notes for the cd. Oh my god yes how they had to go through so much to try to restore the score and be able to net go through any sort of analog interface in order to get the score from its original version onto a cd all my god. it just sounded horrific. All of the like different people that they would go to. It'd be like. Oh sure. I know how to use this machine. But there's no machines left alive that will do this. This is a transitional movie. It was a transitional movie for the walt disney company in walt disney productions. Basically michael eisner and jeffrey katzenberg came on board a couple years later and formed touchstone pictures which rebranded anything that wasn't g. rated and kinda freed up disney to do bigger more successful movies. That that you know might horrify children. The the black hole did and have some cover. You know like touchstone. And and then later hollywood pictures within the company. It was like the transformative. Technically it was a crazy mixture of old school filmmaking old school practical effects in old school mats with these like more the motion control rig whatever advances in optical they. They've managed to get you know you can still you know the lines are still a little bit. Whatever that shot of the media alone could not have been done like five or ten years before this film had been done. I mean it was. That is such a impactful crazy. That shot still holds up. That shot is still really good. The meteoric Barreling down the thing. That is one of the best moments in this movie. And that's one of those moments high talked about higher. Remember this and snatches. That was one of them. So that the ending i mentioned anthony perkins biting it. You talked about pulling the mask off of the guy. Even though i mix up that with flash gordon. So i keep thinking that when he pulls off the mask that the is are gonna go crazy but that was the next year. I adore flash gordon. I adore that. I don't adore it the way that i do. The black hole because the black hole. Just impacting me so much. But i i do want to say that. Flash gordon is a consistent totally consistent film. You it starts off as one film at goes through it as one film ends as one film. It's that can't be crazy. Flashy crazy movie in wonderful the black hole. It's like they're these moments and you're like we're talking about the meteoric there these moments that are so great an impactful Or the first moment they walk into the main chamber with all those people who whether i meet rinehart and it's like looking it was like was that a set where that was that just like was that put together optically and i i believe there were like mats with like little bike boxes of of activity that they would have shot. But it's it's gorgeous. There's real aw in this movie. Along with the silliness along with the stuff that doesn't work like there are moments of actual. Aw i could decry some of the look of the film and certainly can take some issue with the weird tonal shifts. That will happen between cuts at times but are legitimately moments where you just have to appreciate the sheer amount of craftsmanship. That went into this and it still largely holds up. There are some moments where you can see. The seems a little bit and i don't think this film is quite as immortal as again. Film from nineteen seventy-nine like alien. But there's still enough to this that it should be regarded for what they were able to accomplish in simply forgotten or Mocked for some of the failings of the film alien is a much better film. Let's just put their early in the much better movie like as a movie. It's a much better movie Aliens is i. i mean. I can't say enough. Great things about alien. I think i think it's a kind of genius. A piece of genius film has much higher ambitions though. It's much bigger ambitions. Because it didn't obviously didn't just want to be a hit it wanted to be icon. It wanted to be basically the beginning of a franchise. I believe i mean. They really wanted this to be like their star wars than they'd said that in the press. Although it's hilarious that anyone would think this film could be even remotely compare this. It's like you would have to not understand what a movie is to actually believe. This movie would be a star wars none of the things that that sold star wars outside of the fact that it sifi in the effects are impressive. Hey it's got cute robots on it you talking about the budget. It's just like this cost. At least twice. What star wars cost. At least two this would have been to star wars this movie but it it does have that. I don't i don't know what the metaphor is it's like the has this sheen in this bigness and this ambition that is rare and commendable. Defacto ron miller basil was like we're gonna call our old crew gary nelson. Who's like basically did these little movies for disney and i don't have as i page in front of me but nothing like like huge like this frank phillips her you know and then they would get a john berry. Did you the score. Who was like a profoundly expensive. And i'm sure. Somebody ron billard in pay or ellen shaw to do these facts which are just unbelievably gorgeous. And then you have dialogue like you know how can that. Lifeless derelict defy that kind of gravity. And it's just kind of like wait a second. You have all this beautiful. Shed here an amazing stuff. And it's just like literally you put that you you gave that line to earn ernest here. Ernest sega's line. What did what must you must've looked at that. Rally okay. i'm a pro. I'm a pro. I'm going to sell it. I'm gonna make it work and it's just like yeah. I don't know i i don't know who can make that work on that ends would would kill me. Also in the performance side there seemed to be censored on on some of them and then maybe this it can be attributed to the fact that the majority of the dialogue from what i was reading was recorded in post. You know with the radar was all agr all agr which can have an effect on the quality of the performance but some of the came off just as lifeless robert force or sounds like he is about to die. Any moment he really does and it was it was particularly stood out for anthony perkins. Who absolutely love. I love anthony perkins. But he was sleepwalking through so many of his scenes. It seemed like and just emoting nothing. Now they're worse. Incredible moments with him. I will say some of the interactions that he had with maximilian. Shell word almost felt like it was a i wrote it down to the notes. It was the intellectual seduction between reinhard durant. And knowing what you know about anthony perkins. I have a feeling that he was putting a little bit of that into his performance. Those moments stood out but so much of it was very right on the edge of wooden. Tatty take me through the blackhall there. It is yeah perkins kept reminding me of like a much more toned down dr smith. More parker posey dr smith. There's a game moment. But there's been a i mean anthony perkins i. You know we have to get it out. There is was one of the best actors probably whoever graced the silver screen. He is a fantastic actor. He was fantastic on broadway. He has given a number of roles. One of which of course we all know that is one of the most iconic roles in the history of cinema and probably will be forever but all of these people you do get the sense that we've been shooting this moving for six months we show up when we do like three lines a day. Most of it's just waiting and they're all like craft services over there waiting for the effects guys in the lighting have be all right or whatever gag were doing you could just feel the bigness of this production in the lack of urgency in every at all times and that does and that does come down to the director who from what i understand is a really good guy but there is a significant quay loot is ation in this film. Where like everyone you you had a little more espresso on this that like okay. We gotta gotta bring up the energy here. We are almost crashed ship. You almost all died. You're on this. Go ship this dude is a madman. It's like let's let's. Let's bring the energy up. Like two clicks. Speaking of the downtime one of the things i also learned when researching. This film is apparently maximilian shell when he was filming this. He was In the process of editing his film Tales from the vienna woods and they actually had him set up editing bay right adjacent news time. It really man. Shell is the standout performance for me. He he seems to be the one. Like okay i'll him and roddy mcdowell seemed to be the ones that are like most engaged but mcdowell has the easiest road because he comes in after everything shot and just does the voice over for it but onset they had People with horrible voices doing the voices for the computers for the robot so that they would say we'll just leave it in or use. Those guys that tone of how samya lent all of these actors are compared to reinhard who is kind of madman. but he's never really like frosting. sometimes it's just like i'm waiting for him to be more evil or something well. The accent is a lot of the work. Maximilian shell is like i mean he's like richard burner one of these guys like you know he's like all i need to do is show up gaze at them and say some ominous line with my accent and it was just like evernote. Think i'm acting and it's and it works. I mean you know. And so i'm not. I'm not disparaging robert forster. It's like what you do without role. That is a good actor. That is a good solid actor. Who's been great and a lot of movies as like. You know you're is the good guy you have like you know basically though arc you've no character you have no sex drive. You have no nothing. You're just like i'm like we save the ship. Now we're on another ship that we gotta get out of the ship. Now we're going into the blackhall. It's like i mean what do you do that. It's like you know you're you're the hero but it's like as an actor i. I don't know how you could have done a better job than him. Honestly honest and joseph bottoms. of course the young whippersnapper. Han solo esque dude. This whole movie reminds me of lost in space other than not having penny and the other girl i mean. This was like the mom. The dad the older brother basically dr smith. I mean you almost have to dr smith's borgnine and anthony perkins work nine the reporter in space. I mean i kept thinking like oh. This is an interesting role. What's he going to do with this but again not much. Well he runs off it investigates and we're talking about tone and just how totally different we go from scene to scene especially when it comes to the robots and this whole weird thing of the. Let's call him stormtroopers that the there's a century robots. Yes that they're doing target practice against and star. Who is very. it's it's weird. Because i can't tell who the darth vader is supposed to be either. It's maximilian definitely maximilian. This little bit of of darth vader to star the to especially when he gets shot it just seems like he lights up. Like like leaders chest panel. Almost i did remember that. Yeah the chest panel. There's there's something like really creepy early organic. Because i know they're just people in suits and stuff but it's just like those robots in those. I don't know i can't put my finger on why it's so disturbing because it just doesn't work all of this feels so you're you're on the ship that is leading you to your doom like moment of this movie at again jon. Barry's score. goes a long way. one has to wonder it when they hire john berry. Did they expect this score. It's like i. I'm reminded of like when martin scorsese says he hired bernard hermann for taxi driver and he gave him the movie. And then bernard hermann came back with the score. That was absolutely not what i was thinking. He like he was expecting more like You know. I don't know something like creepy or veto or even obsession or or sisters but he got the score. That was like you know and you know the scored. A taxi drivers like one of the best scores ever that saxophone in the jazz kind of like thing that melded with the crazy orchestral stuff and score says he was just like. This wasn't the movie that i made. But oh my god. I'm not gonna say no because this is amazing and it made the movie better like the black hole like i feel like if you're it it's like some of its shot it you know it is shot with this again with this kind of sleepy. This very dour. Sleepy tone for at least the first half or two thirds but one wonders. If you didn't have that like you know dern sooner you know that whole like the whole like oh my god is something in a jump out and kill me moment for the entire first half movie how it would have felt like you know. Would it have been more fun quote unquote. Yeah and it's it. It certainly goes a long way just sabotaging that setting atmosphere and so much of that gets reinforced by the choices that were made. You know the weirdly sepulchre A humanoid robots that show up and just the unsettling qualities of that and down to just the what the hell of the ending which just the fact that. They decided that they were going to start shooting this movie without having the ending figure it out and it's like oh yeah well we've got this. We don't need the last twenty pages of the script. We'll figure it out later. They had an ending. Just no one liked it Basically this movie is the definition of painting yourself in the near corner okay. Everyone who's out there. Who does screenwriting knows what i'm talking about. Basically you paint yourself into a corner when you set up a question that the movie then can't or doesn't want to answer in this case. The question is what happens if you go through a black hole like the whole movie. It's just like like reinhard says like oh it's amazing you'll live forever and you're connected to god whatever and everyone else is just like during saying will be crushed Jewel die. it'll be terrible. Whatever and i. I wanna say the first ending i read was like this weird if i it was obscured than they did this whole thing in the sistine chapel which they ended up shooting. There's like they were coming out of the eye of god. And angel. The michelangelo like god touching adam and zooms in or out of kate. Mccrae's i and it was this big kind of like a catholic story and and not got nixed by again miller who was just like that's too religious so it's just like his movie and the question is there's a big black hole it's the title of the film. It's there could be death it could be everlasting life. We don't know and at the end. Our heroes go into it. You might wanna figure out what you're trying to say with the movie then because what you're with the movie is obviously could is going to be. What's in the black hole and even people who love this movie like me for that ending that they have which was re shot like. I wanna say like just weeks before the film opened in a gazillion theaters. It's a big thing with models and stuff and it's probably the best shot i mean. I can't think of anything better like you would. You would have needed to go in with an idea for that to be better. You know what i mean. It's like you would have to have a a concept about what you're trying to say with the movie the black hole about what the black hole represents and what it is and then pay it off. They did not they were trying to make twenty thousand leagues in space or star word. Baldwin's star wars melded with. I don't know the haunted mansion. I have no idea whatever but going through the black hole if you're looking at from Screenplay structural level is is beside the point. And that's a big problem in a movie called the black hole so yeah they came up with this but it's an and the effects in it. I mean the miniatures are very impressive of along with everything else. It is very impactful aside from the whole angel with the wire hanger. Everybody who seen this movie. It's amazing mo multimillion dollar special effects and literally at the end they like ties some fucking white tissue paper on a god damn wire hanger angel and fly it across the screen at. It's like what are you doing. Like who thought of that is the cheesiest cheap pizza shit i've ever seen. Why why are you doing that. You know they they they were. They were at cross purposes like they wanted to spend money. They didn't want to spend money. They wanna be profound. They didn't wanna be profound. They wanna be scary. They didn't want to be scary. They wanna be you know for kids. They didn't want to be for kids. I mean that's the crux of this whole movie is how it literally wants to tear itself apart. It is a legitimately schizophrenic movie. And i love it. They wanted to avoid religious connotations and then they show literal robot. Hell hell if you guys know me. I'm always looking for meaning and stabs. I'm just like oh we'll cygnus the swan and they're on the palomino so what through. Swans and horses have to do with each other. Joe cygnus the swan as the southern cross and the ship maitland. Looks like a cross. Oh penetrating the black hole. This is our intervention some movies even though they're done with the best of intentions sometimes on. There's a david and goliath Point yet some movies have so much going on and so many cooks in the kitchen that they do not end up knowing what the fuck they're doing and this is a prime example of what that is but like you. I am fascinated by failures. So as you're making your documentary on xs heretic. Am yeah you don't get much more of a failure than that film. No i mean these failures are infinitely more fascinating than sometimes even successes. You know just to see how these things went wrong. I'll put a corollary on that. I think that. I don't think that every failure is. I don't think the failures in general. But i think that ambitious failures are are so valuable and they don't have the kind of love that ambitious successes have or even less than initial successes have like. I can talk about xs to the heretic and what it attempted to do. The medically narrative league visually and it sounds amazing. I could. I can sell this movie on paper as being like you know. One of the greatest movies ever made because it had like john boorman had all these people and it was amazing. Like william fraker shot it and it had a huge budget biggest warriors history at the time. And you know but if you watch the film you will see very clearly that in any conventional analysis film doesn't work. It's not scary at all. It's not really a horror. Movie and plot wise. There are a lot of problems and dialogue is their problems and some performances are problematic and it was left. The screen is a huge failure. But you look at it as being like the sequel that took off in this crazy other direction that they could just as well done another redo of actresses. They could've just had another kid be possessed or have reagan possessed again or whatever in standing when they shot it on three continents. I mean it was like crazy. The ambition they did in the black holes very similar. Because like you can tell. A good portion of the people involved in this movie wanted to do a great sci-fi movie like like a two thousand one like mixed with like you know twenty thousand leagues mixed with star wars mixed with like they wanted to be in that pantheon and they had the money. I mean had so much money for disney. I mean even for any be twenty million dollars in the late seventies. That is a huge budget. But the you know there were movies that were had bigger budgets than that. There are a few but not many. But then you have the people in charge who obviously are like no. We have to put some cute robots on some kids stuff. No we have to let you know. Keep it they. They didn't want to take those risks. Because it's just again. That's a huge amount of money and it would have put the company imperil. Had the movie tanked utterly that disney would have been in an enormous amount of trouble at this point in its history. Disney was not the human. It is now the most of the major studios it was basically at the back. Oh yeah it was a bargain basement. A lot of times. I mean they were talking about selling it. I mean you look at the history of the walt disney company like during this period and into the eighties. It was like they were very close to just not ever making movies ever again. Why remember spielberg wanted to buy for a little bit. The whole Dreamworks skg kind of came out of disney saying. No we're not going to sell. And they said okay. We'll just start our own business then and this was just a huge. I mean you look at a roulette table like they put a lot of money on a lot of chips on like or you know. One of the three in one of the they. They put a lot of chips on the table in this film was like tell you all his own not so much. As far as the box office goes although the mover. The black cauldron yellow the black halter in was a disaster. That was that was a movie that really really lost a lot of money. And that was eighty five. And i think that was ron miller's last official executive producer all that sounds right and if you watch waking sleeping beauty which is a really good documentary and i think that's on disney plus two that was about of the whole renaissance of disney animation. They go into the whole block cauldron. Where like i. I believe this is correct. I believe this is what happened. Jeffrey katzenberg had them like re-shoot most of the film because they had a cut in the i if if not the first one one of the first movies they were animated films. That were doing on seventy millimeter. They were shooting Seventy millimeter and they wanted to do these big gigantic. The kind of epic things except the movie wasn't working. It was a big big big disaster. The black hole when it came out was not a big disaster it actually. It was a moderate grocer. It was it was not a hit. It was not a flop. It did okay. It was eclipsed by star trek star trek. The motion picture came out. I think two weeks either. Before or after it i forget what it was right before. And then ailing was six months beforehand but yeah it was amazing how close black hole and the star trek. The motion picture were and ironically star. Trek was rated g. And the black hole distributed by walt disney productions was rated. Pg so the star trek ended up. Making i think a lot more than the black hole did. But i ended it. I believe it costs like almost twice as much as the back hole. That star trek was like one of the most expensive movies ever made for a very long time. The costumes of a lot of the people from the palomino were very star trek esque. I don't know if it was just that seventies feel that was going on or what. But i was just like. Wow these guys look like. They've just stepped off of because those costumes for star trek. The motion picture were very strange compared to what they were in the tv show or even in star trek to in the next generation. They were the most one thousand nine hundred seventy nine period appropriate costumes that you simply ask just like i mean not as good as David from star trek to with the sweater around his neck kind of thing but pretty damn close. I mean you can tell that. The film was influenced by every single sci-fi movie or television. Show possible up until this point and it's interesting because it doesn't really afford new ground in any particular way bought the way that it mixes up. All of these influences is very unique and again. I mean going back to what we've been saying this whole time completely schizophrenic. I wanna tell you about the ending. The film because i ran across a fantastic video on youtube the other day which was trying to explain the ending of the film but basically the guy said If i have to explain this to you you're stupid. Everybody should know exactly what is going on at this film. If you don't know your complete idiot and i was just like all right. I just got insulted but okay you just not sophisticated enough to understand the tragedy of the story rando on youtube. He's down a little. There is a A book on tape version of this or or like one of those storybook versions or had a i had i had the album with the narrator in the lights in the cygnus. Go up at once or something like that. That whole thing. Percy rodriguez the guy who used to do all those amazing voice overs for Horror previews tonight is the next chicago. So it's the same guy. Oh my god. That's amazing i. I haven't heard this album's since i was a kid i don't even know i'm sure it's digitally out there somewhere. By the immense gravity. The probe ship fell faster and faster into the huge world. Suddenly everything was calm. They had come through safely before them. Stretched a giant universe filled with planets and stars that had been swallowed by the black hole. Keep was stunned now. Well we can't go back replied the captain but that's no reason to give up. Hope we've been trained to find new worlds. Let's go find one for ourselves. That was the ending that they had for that version help. There's a bathroom on that. God damn probe ship and maybe a little bit of like food or something. It's like you know let's find a planet okay like probably should a in your fucking uniforms like dude leagues their water on this thing. Is there enough oxygen. What the hell considering the complete and utter disregard for any sort of science in this movie the last thing they were thinking about where food and toilets on the ship. I feel like the movie is actually very very like religious about like science or at least their interpretation of science with Sicknesses energy field. Or whatever. the fuck is they throw it out in the last twenty minutes like in his very consistent and then suddenly the ship is being torn up and then people are flying in space with no space suits. And it's all fucking masks and you can tell it's just like our. We're gonna do this like you could tell. This was late in the shoot. I'm guessing it was late in the shoot. It's just like okay shits falling apart like you know the probe ship is and the actors will be like we aren't we in space is like yaba is blowing up and stuff is happening. Just go just go with it okay. You're it's fine. You're in space. But it's like it's not bad space. It's goods you can breed. That's fine when the great cinematic killjoy. Neil degrasse tyson declared the lee scientifically accurate film ever made and that. I wanna find some other nominees because the black hole doesn't deserve that lawn. I was in high school at the time. And i said look. I could've been your science advisor kick but moving on black holes. I bet you still knew a lot of science. I seven black holes. Actually but then there was also allen dean foster writing the novelization trying to figure out a way to make the science work. I mean yeah. They're pretty smart when it comes to having the big garden wherever they could get their food and stop because those lobotomize crew members still need to eat something. I would imagine bathroom breaks. I think they're doing their suit. You what they look. So you know herald when they take the mask off well okay so okay so at the palomino shows up and like the entire ship smells like crew member. Pooping in their pants. I would have guessed that. They're not robots win old. Bob the clean it all up. That's why that's why he's so messed up. I don't wanna think about these crew members. Pooping and i want believe that even when he mind controls them with the zappia thing. It's just like by the way you get a p break. Every three hours take advantage of it it away. The ending of the movie as soon as he sees a robot limping. I mean the chicks have been upright right there i. I don't know why they took so long to figure out that these were humans under those outfits but yet so the ending of the movie is i mean. It's that question. You're talking about before david as far as like okay. What's going to happen when they go through this thing. You're right it is very two thousand one influence. But i don't think as interesting is two thousand and one and then yeah. This is where the religious stuff just comes out completely. How do we even describe it other than like religious ecstasy going on with Heaven and hell all going on at the same time in. That's really what it is. It's it's taking an inherently religious concept and transforming into science fiction context the idea of heaven hell existing is parallel dimensions. That must be passed through in order to with the black hole. Serving as the decider of where you go though it was pointed out and i wish i thought of this earlier one of the more kind of out there as particularly as seeing it as a kid the merging between reinhart and the robot maximilian resulting with reinhard being inside him or inside. Maximilian shell did that just happen. Just happened. I have no idea if it was intentional. But god i love a terrible never watched this movie again and not think about that now that moment where. He's inside maximum. Ucs is first of all the it is. It has imprinted on me again. Was a kid like this day. I think that that's really fucking great. And you as a filmmaker you look at it and they had like you. You look like it's hard. That was a hard shot to do. Because they're delayed is so they had like this before. Led's so it's like they had to have some kind of a light source inside that fucking thing have his face pressed up against that leading is is and then there's that i mean it's basically as big. I mean it it cuts to a miniature but this is big tracking back shot with him inside it. It's one of those impressive moments in this movie that make it so important for especially people who like movies to watch kind of saver. 'cause there's there's shilton's movie you just i can't believe and it's like i haven't seen it anywhere else and to this day. I haven't seen it anywhere else. I mean it's extremely impactful stuff and yet in a movie. That doesn't really work. The ending feels a little unearned at times. But then it's like you have had this black hole sitting there the entire time and it's like please just tell me what's going on. You know what happens when you go through. But then they aren't going to just hand you the answers either. No i mean they were going for the two thousand one and they didn't quite have the chops to pull it off. Instead of it becoming this great abiding cinematic mystery. It becomes a what the hell happened there. I don't want to think about all right. We're gonna take 'em we'll be right back after these brief messages. Join me. Jamie benning on the film entries hook cost particularly if you enjoy stories like design anita writers to mirror convincing george lucas to push him around to help gain the support of his crew. On the ailing. How the duck climbed the door open such george. Everybody got george makes a beeline to me. I'm literally back against the wall or he. Puppeteer tim rose's emotional story behind that iconic admiral akbar shot in return of the jedi. I leave or something. Be proud of not to sell. The all star was editor pool. Hirsch tackled cutting so many successful films. The thing that i learned from working with the parliament is that tension depends on o'clock. You need to have the sense. That time is running out. Maybe a screening sound design genie's insightful chat about these work on blade runner twenty forty nine now not a single sound from the original blade runner in the new film. A great deal of inspiration. That's the film you entries podcast with me. Jamie benning dave kitchen filmmaker in los angeles. And i'm the host of the outcast presented by out fest a new podcast where i have conversations with t. creators and allies to discuss their work. Their inspirations their passions and the challenges of getting our authentic voices her. I was scare. Except oh what am i doing here. I am selling my soul. But when i realized what the movie was let's do. Let's make this wonderful movie the freedom of ad-libbing and letting things happen in the moment with stephen trask. Let's write something that involves standup comedy drag punk. Rock was so rebellious and precocious. I guess the definition of gay to me is freedom. Women gave the so life. I feel like a hunk fast. You guys are rough as hell. You're to kind of years ago. It's a no-holds-barred talk with iconic creators and performers. It's not white people. it's not. i hate white. It's dearly people. It's how you start a letter at the climax of the show is a sex scene between now you're in venezuela and i remember feeling personally self conscious about never having been with a woman in any form i'm always thinking about the audience. Make them feel make them laugh and make them cry. That's a simple as for me. I had been not wanting to be a it was clear in the edit that i had to you know really reshape it so the film told me what it needed to be the most an empathy machine and and it sort of allows you to see yourself in people's faces that you normally wouldn't see humanity in talking about it and the tea is definitely spilled down anything at this out here all the charming. The ugly gory relationship have come in with guests like john. Cameron mitchell christine rashaan laverne cox. Jonathan groff justin simeon jim. Paul miss coco peru. Rachel mason jeffrey schwarz. Hp mendoza and fabulous queens shangila eureka. And bob the drag queen sweating the house. Mama never know what's gonna come up. You know me. I'm so big and strong. That eureka. Bob hide behind me and protect the chihuahua. Bless she does. We have security. Couldn't pay off season. One of the outcast presented by out fest premiering of twenty twenty. Hope you can join us tuning into sci-fi tv everybody. Welcome back. i'm brent barrett. I'm kevin batchelder. i'm wendy hemp brock. The viewer's guide genre television. Welcome everyone to special supernatural focus. Bangalore's one and welcome to the faith of family podcasts. For the genre loving television. Viewer to saturday movie. Real welcome to this degree in top john wrote characters of all time countdown today. We're all right. We are back talking about the black hole. I think it's pretty funny. Because when i went to see christopher nolan's interstellar the only movie that i kept thinking of over and over and over again was the black hole and then it was funny as it wishes. It were the black hole. I was looking up the black hole. And it was like google was like you might also like christopher nolan's interstellar i'm sure christopher nolan is just delighted by that comparison he can take it. I sat through tenant. He can take it. I don't know which one i liked less. is it tenant or is it interstellar. At least ten. It was shorter. I think i think i think interstellar is moderately better movie but tenant i think is probably more watchable but i don't like either one of those films. I'm sorry i. I really appreciate them. I appreciate the the the work that went into them. Because it's undeniable. And i appreciate the ambition of telling original stories especially ones that kind of morph with your perceptions but yet i wish i could say a fan of those two movies i still i still think the prestigious is best moving. I might back you up on that one. Because i have a lot of affection for the prestige. I said genuinely good movie and i remember seeing it in the movie theater when it came out and i didn't know what again talking about painting yourself into the corner of the way the black hole date. It's i did not know how the prestige was gonna come out of this. I was just like where the hell are you going is it. Supernatural is not supernatural. Is that sometimes. What is it. And when they explained the ending and the big reveal happens. I was like okay. This is actually kind of cool. Like like i get what you're saying. Now i get. What theme is now. And i was impressed with that and also dividend his performances tesla just loved and i even scarlett johansson. Who was in it for. Like two seconds i thought was great. I mean everybody in this movie in every and the score by david julian. We're not we're not even talking about the black hole. We're talking about the procedure. But it's it's it's a. It's a really good. I would say even underrated film. And i and i think it's actually his best movie. I think it was unfortunate that it came out so close to the illusionist and people just didn't know what the hell is going on. I mean talking about movies. That are coming out too close together. I mean every article. I was reading about the black hole was comparing it to the point of like starburst magazine from the uk was just like okay. Who wins between black hole and star trek the motion picture and they had four or five of their critics going through and comparing contrasting and talking about which one was better. And for what reason and starburst. I'm i don't know how they even survive very long because they would do this thing where they would tout a movie. We have interviews have articles. Have all this stuff and then the movie would come out and invariably they would trash it. I'm trying to remember. I think it was like when we did alien nation. It was like all of these articles about okay. This is great in that. Alienating comes out and the review as this movie is terrible. It's like you guys just spent six months every episode every issue talking about this movie and then when it finally comes out you trash okay. This is strange. At least they have some kind of editorial integrity. The you know you know that they're they're not just kowtowing to the studios. That is very true. All biting the hand that feeds them to the point of the comparison between these two of the two of them. One of the things that i found interesting over the years has been sort of the critical reappraisal of star trek the motion picture for the longest time. It was received wisdom that only the even numbered star trek movies. Were good and yet. I've seen a lot more people coming around to the charms and the accomplishments of that original star motion picture. I wonder if perhaps now that to the black hole is more readily available seeing as it is part of the disney plus streaming platform if there is going to be a similar reappraisal of the black hole. Or if it's just too out there that it will simply develop a second life as just a tripped out weird little movie. The reason that star trek the motion picture. I think was underrated at the time. I mean i get i mean. I like star trek the motion picture. I think it's actually a good movie. But i think that the expectations for it at the time were ridiculous they were. I mean in in a lot of that had to do with the marketing and a lot to do with the fact that it was such a beloved series and star wars had happened and of course this was not star wars at all was very star trek and you know they were really compressed for time when they made that movie it went way over budget way way way over schedule a lot of that had to do with the effects of which had to be a lot of which had to be redone And it is kinda famously. One of the most arduous productions certainly paramount's history and and i would say of that era despite it being shot on sound stages like all the effects and all the post production were so insanely complicated and and had to be redone at the last second so when the movie came out. I think that everybody had these very high expectations of like what it would be. And what it ended up being a big seventy millimeter wide screen. Like olsen shot and seventy was shown in seventy Dobie stereo star trek episode A good and bad along with the cheesiness along with the grandeur of space. And all that stuff and i think we'll end. It wasn't like this action movie. It wasn't what star to was which is like a lot of action star trek to with a lot of action. It's great it's that's why it's like the best one of the series really star. Trek is more about like look at space. It's amazing look at look at the miniatures of this ship. We're going to have this amazing jerry. Goldsmith's score over like five minutes of shooting these beautiful miniatures in. It's like i think in a movie theater. That would have been impressive. I think that on video specially pan and scan video which happened just after it. It really was a little bit difficult and i think i'm glad that star trek it has had a you know a reappraisal Because i think that it. You know it's not a great film but it's a good film and it got should on too much when it came out the black hole. I mean i remember it open with think mixed reviews it wasn't it wasn't badly reviewed but it certainly wasn't well reviewed do with film like this because it depends on how you review you know. Are you just reviewing people who may or may not want to go see this movie. Well then i think that a mixture of us probably correct because it is a very mixed bag but this podcast and you know certainly my friends and people. I talked to were filmmakers. Were sinophile artists as such. Sometimes we need to see movies that are maybe like you know. Even not successful like exorcist. Do the heretic or one of these movies. But it's like they have something or they tried something or there's something in them. You're never going to see anywhere else. And i think that the black hole has so many of those moments that you live like that are so unique and so powerful in the midst of this movie. That kinda doesn't were that it's like if you love the genre if you love movies certainly if you love kind of like that era of studio filmmaking in in the seventy s in the late seventies where disney was kinda trying to find what it wanted to be coming out. Of the ron miller era of like you know north avenue irregulars in cat from outer space. And all that stuff like where we going. What are we trying to be as as a company as an artistic organization than it's essential. I mean this is an essential him the watch absolutely. It's also in terms of just disney. Trying something you know. This was their attempts to transform themselves to make to break ina being well. We make movies for kids. Well let's try something else and Obviously did not succeed but in a sense it kind of set the stage because they would would go on to put greater emphasis into things like touchstone and you know breakout of strictly family friendly fare. You know this was their faltering steps in this direction. But i'm glad that at least succeeded enough. That allowed them to take similar. Risks on stuff like tron. That would come out some years later. I mean if tron would not have happened had the black hole like really tank exact or or even without the black hog because like the technological innovations. That were used on tron. I think didn't they use the motion control that they've developed on the blackhall on that. I could be wrong about that but but i think they did doom. No but i wouldn't be surprised. Certainly when i was the first time i saw on it was on the terrible quality broadcast over. You know over antenna television. And i thought it looks terrible. It wasn't until later that i saw restored copy of is like. Oh no this is brilliant. Be also i mean you know again coming back to those lovely people at walt disney home video through the eighties. Their transfer of tron was up. Until i think the dvd one of the worst transfers. I have ever seen of a major motion picture. Ever it is it was like done with completely without any care or you know and and seemingly without any intelligence everything looked and gross and and again you're talking panin skin for movie. That was shot very deliberately. Wide by steve. Louis burger who directed. He didn't shoot it and there was stuff going on at opposite ends of the frame to watch that film especially especially in that transfer on pan and scan video was probably like it. Did the movie the least amount of favors. I can possibly imagine lee. We talked about this a little bit. Let's talk about jon. Barry's score for a moment. Let's say that you're listening to this and your fan of movie scores. Let's say you know. John barry score from the james bond or whatever you know you would not really think that this would happen like the score would come from you know. It's this gorgeous. Brooding orchestral score. I'm sure like mike when you put the the trailer at the top. If you put the trailer at the top you'll hear a fair bit of it like it goes so it's an earworm dung done done dune dern downturn done done a chest it's like it's like an inverted jaws in a way but again it goes back to tone it's like is this. A suspense movie is this. An action movie is a society. Like what is this. What are what emotion trying to engender in any part of this and really. It's like i think that what you were saying before it's like it's far more like a disaster movie in a way than than star wars the unsettling tone that comes from the the score. I mean it cannot be overstated. It's it's so impactful for establishing this tone which can be you know disconcerting for people that don't that come in with the preconception of this is going to be. You know this is going to be star wars or oh it's disney. This is going to be a family friendly thing. It is something else and so much of that tone gets defined by this incredible barry score. The trailer for this film haunted me forever. It's it's a very very impactful trailer especially if you were a kid. I thought it was like the coolest thing i've ever seen. You mentioned. right at the gecko al gore. The whole idea of that moving psychic and it's like it comes up here and there and then they drop it and the little they'll bring it back in the whole thing of like how her father was on the sickness. It's like okay. I kept waiting for there to be like a psychic connection between her and her father. And instead we get the psychic connection between vincent and her and that was just like i could. It's weird because could buy esp. Okay cool. I can buy these. Robots are actually people with you know mass sun and everything but the idea of the robot communicating to her telepathically. I was just like no. That's like the bridge too far. And i don't know why that is as much as i was walking in the beginning. I actually really like that element because it speaks to an era of science fiction where you did kind of had this broad umbrella of concepts which esp was included in that and he didn't really need a whole explanation for it they simply mentioned it. It was part of this world. It was something that was commented upon and it was a freer expression of science fiction. In an era where you have endlessly Endless youtube videos of people breaking down and criticizing the science behind science fiction or the aforementioned. Neil degrasse tyson referring to this is the most scientifically inaccurate film ever made. It's nice to go back to an earlier era of science fiction where the creators weren't as handcuffed. I mean there were people that were certainly working in hard science fiction at this time and yes even hired a science fiction writer in order to serve as a consultant on this film. Unfortunately they hired harlan ellison who promptly got fired because apparently in the cantina he was pitching an animated porno between disney characters. And ron miller over her him because because harlan ellison's get harlan ellison but it speaks to a freer era of science. Fiction bore bitching about kate mccrae esp. But like deanna troi. You can't tell me that's like a direct line. I am absolutely fine with their. I mean this is however many years in the future where we can fly to a black hole and were traveling and we've got holograms and all this kinda stuff. Being psychic is not the bridge too far. That's absolutely fine. I'm absolutely okay with there being psychic powers on here. that's great. I just wish they would have utilized a little bit more and had there be more of a applaud thing. I it's very deanna. Troi because the trays powers come to not like ninety percent of the time. It's just like okay. What are you doing with your empathic powers. you know. since she's only half betas. Loyd you should see a screaming alien and say i sense. He's angry she walks into the room and she's like pain bay over. There was one episode where she was pissed off. Remember the episode where she just yelled at everybody although the whole episode and even record is like. Hey we talking about what is the anxiety was that the word the lover word or whatever was johnny and she goes. Oh please unlike deonna. I want martini with you right now. We're gonna we're gonna sit down. You're gonna get all this off your chest and you know it'll be it'll be better in the morning. Something tells me that was probably something that her mother tat. Her mother's always nestle stuff us. All right we're gonna take another break in play a preview for next week. Show close encounters. Third kind begins in an indiana town and leads to one capable conclusion alone. Columbia pictures impatient. That's right we'll be back next week with a look at steven spielberg's close encounters of the third kind until then i want my co host this week david e l. Gorell what's been going out with. You will time this recording where he just wrapped up our month devoted to animation over on the talk with over the podcast and now i'm back onto the patriarch selected stuff. We had a guy ritchie double feature of snatch and the recently released gentlemen from ripe of win the pandemic dropped off. So that was. I was catching up with that film and coming up is kind of appropriate enough for the black hole is going to be cinematic examinations of the afterlife with nineteen ninety-one defending your life. That's an hour brooksville. If i recall correctly yes and it's so good. I've heard it's i've heard it's good. I haven't caught up with it yet. But i'm certainly looking forward to watching it and discussing it on the show and then nine hundred ninety eight. What dreams may come with robin williams. A not great adaptation of richard matheson's book. But it'll be fun discussing the differences shirt to dig around those a work print of that as a if memory serves. It's got some big differences in there that we'll have to see gals the thanks for that. And i'm excited that we'll be talking next week about close encounters of the third kind we will you got back to back on these which is a much better moving than the black hole but i look forward to listening to that. You know what i saw them. Both when i was a kid. And i think the black hole gave me more nightmares. So the has echo for it. I mean listen to the black. The black hole as i said impacted need for have a black hole poster in ryan apartment. I mean close encounters is a better movie but the black hole as a kid. It literally changed the way. I looked at movies like for the first time i saw like a weight. Characters can die. People can die like there's sometimes like like basically. This is a no win situation. You can be in a no win situation. You can just be like oh we have to land on the ship because you know and then it's a madman and you have to fight your way off but you end up going to the black hole anyway. It's like you know there's a lot there's a lot of existential moments to be gleaned from this i guess if you're a kid and david what's going on in your world sir. Well the second season of the podcast. I host and produce. Which is the outcast presented by out fest just started. I just talked to the guys from pose the show runner into the stars. Oh nice. I love that show. Yeah yet i mean it was it was. It was a good episode and last season Was the first season for this. Podcast out fest is an organization here in los angeles that runs the los angeles gay and lesbian film festival among tons of other programs. So they're really important Lgbtq arts entertainment organization and this is their first podcast. I was really like very a you know thrilled. And and and Humbled to be asked to do this. And last season. I talked to a lot of people like john. Cameron mitchell and christine vashon and justin simeon and jonathan. Groff laverne cox and. It was really great when they brought me back this year. And we have a lot of guests. That are fantastic. Lined up the first episode. Just dropped last week. The second episode is dropping this coming week. Ten at least On the way. And my documentary. Which i talked about earlier on exercise to the heretic which is going to be called. Heretics brush by the wings of exorcists to Is going to be released next year. At least on the festival circuit. And we're i know we're still shooting. I did a shoot yesterday with the script supervisor and doing more shoots in new york in a couple of weeks and then we're suits in july yell see we'll see where and when it premieres in two thousand twenty two but it will and were the so excited about it. It's been three or four years making it in you. Know we talk to john. Berman and linda blair louise fletcher and tons of other people. Just amazing story. So i believe there's a url for it but there's nothing on it yet called heretics movie dot com. You know within a few months. I'm sure something will be up on. That will thank you guys for being on the show. Thanks to everybody for listening police head on over to the website projection. Podcasts dot com. We can find out more about today's episode. Also find a link to patriot where you can make a donation to the show every donation we get help the projection booth take over the world.

walt disney productions anthony perkins joseph bottoms ron miller gary nelson ernest borgnine walt disney mike mr david kitsch dr hans reinhardt maximilien hollywood dr smith dexter riley kurt russell dexter riley clarice lebron bernard hermann theron miller
018_Complete_Broadcast_Day_440606_Part_018

Yesteryear Old Time Radio

59:06 min | 1 year ago

018_Complete_Broadcast_Day_440606_Part_018

"Two hours earlier than usual. We are presenting at this time. The corwin show starring Charles London. We went under up the broadcast for any late news developments. Man is a long time coming. Man will yet twin. Brother may yet lineup with brother. Presents Corwin. Car Brings you. The first of three broadcasts entitled an American Trilogy Starring The actor Child's London, especially patient works of three American Writers Carl Sandberg Thomas Wolf And Walt Whitman. Each program will be narrated by Mr Lawton and scarred by Bernard Hermann. Tonight's Charles Latin and Norman Koren's production of Sandberg. Nothing we can touch with. Nothing we can say goodbye to. Nothing of material and practical contribution. is to be mentioned for comparison. With the parting out of the Of Our. Chosen you. On autists dedicated to national existence. And the Rainbow Hopes of the fall freedoms. That? Cat His Majesty. Dust vanished you. Can Be Sacred. The Phantom of a good fighting. Men can come back asking. How goes the flag? I fought for has any man's dream of a better world being helped? Do you think you are? What do you think you'll come from? toenails. Ahead mixed the earth at the air. This is the laboratory man. Tell you what you Man Listen while it takes pot. Weighing one hundred fifty pounds, you hold thirty five hundred cubic feet of gas, oxygen, hydrogen nitrogen from the twenty two pounds and ten ounces of carbon, and you is a filling for nine thousand lead pencils in your blood are fifty grains of Ir in the rest of your frame, and I've iron to make. It would hold your way beyond wall. Kingdom drugstore. And Cosmos. And a Phantasmagoria Treading Lonesome Valley. One of the people. One of the people. Seeing son. Zero weather seeing fire flood. Having Meditations. One of the people. Yes The people. A seething of saints and Sentas. Tyler's loafers Oxen Apes. The only source of armies navies gangs. Living flowing breadth of the history of nations. Little family of man hugging the Little Ball. The Rue toads of the Earth Nourish. The majestic jesting people. A new generations with names never heard of. Plow deep and broken drums. Tiling revolt on revolt across Night Valley's. Letting loose insurrections, uprisings. Plotting and a some Nampula Zm Ogg and rain. Gillette given moment exploded by long prepared event. Contra immense from 's the monotonous daily motions of the people. On immense drums, you can trim the monotonous daily motions of the people. Taking from Muscles of red. Over from yesterday into tomorrow. You'll come on great brass Hans. The awful clamours of on Revolution Wends Wyoming annonymous shadow shapes. Obliterate old names. Big Names. On out what? Offer Watch as. Brash. LANC Hey. Lost the bitter years. The death death-list dream will be the stronger. The dream of equity will win. Each man pictures hell or heaven different. Some have snug like Evans suburban well-kept. Some have a wild storm swept Evan that happened. This has been storms. Heaven must have stormed makes with. And Hell for some jail. For others factory. For others. Kitchen. For others a place of many polite liars. What kind of you? People lie because they don't remember clear with the sole. People I because I can't help making the story better than it was the way it happened. People tell white lies so to be decent to others. People Line of Pinch hitting to do it, but lying on because it might be worse. And people lie just to be less for crooked personal gain. What sort of Aligarh you. Eliah. Lies to nations. Eliah lies to the people. Hitler April US Nineteen, seventy nine. The German people have no fault of invading any country. Takes a lot of the people. Drink this blood laughing the. Hit. The September thirtieth nineteen, forty two. We shall take studying Grad. You may depend upon it, and you can be sure of the fund conviction, but no human being. She'll have a push away from that spot. This is an old one. We know him many as. He's a straight a dog's hind leg. He's a straight as a corkscrew. He's as white black cat footed midnight. WHO shall speak for the people? Who knows the LEX from eight. Has He? So he can say I know what the people want. One of the people being half as Rutten as what the pandas the people dangled before crowds. SIP right up and get your panic. Old Cues, Cancer Flint feet, Hunt Disease Goldstone's endangered one dollar bottle together with US membership in the German American. Bund guaranteed to cure patriotism. Make you hate Jews love general. Franco and lose friends all data. Has the fiber of the people being a shoddy. What is sold to the people cheated? What is it? The Pandora's and Cheetahs of the people play with them, trade on. The Credibility Of Believers and hopers. On when a lesson her because belief and hope. What is the? Line, between credulity on the one side, and on the other the hypotheses and illusions of inventors discoverers. Navigators, who shot their caused by what they hope and believe is beyond the horizon. What is a stratosphere balloon, fourteen miles from the earth or a sunken glass house under sea-bottom. Unless. Bet The man can shove on beyond yesterday's record of Man. Believe. How like a sublime sanctuary of human credulity is that Rome wet amid tubes? Globes talked they should with hydrogen better with fire streams of power, hoping to smash the atom it constitution of a neutral atom, and be studied by hypothecating appropes, which energetic turns on captured in the field around who are these bipeds trying to take pot, the atom and isolated electrons and make it tell it is what it is. Believers and hct let the work of their father and brothers be cancelled instant and watch. What happened nothing. Only every two bus car bumped print film instrument depending for its life on electrodynamic power. Would stop. And stand dumb and silent they levers. And Hope. Tattered flag. And a dream. Out of time. The evening star inviolable over the coal mines. Shimmer of northern lights across a bitter winter night. The Blue Hills. Beyond the smoke of the steel words. Ten Cents Crocus Bow. Blooming a used car salesroom. Horseshoe over the dog. Luck piece in the pocket. And the company. Yup. I have looked over the earth. and seeing the swarming of different people two different God. Like men with prayers to A. Wonderful. SHAPE, deliver million I righteousness. Bow Ninety or to me deliver speedily. Black! Man, To a black. Hole. Yellow face is before us to a yellow faced guard. Kim Jaw. Jin. Burning fires they have picked God with the naked skin. Amid frozen rocks, they have picked God code and shaggy as a polar bear. I have met stubs of mend broken in the pain. Relation of war, saying God is forget. To Pot off. Too Far Away I have met people saying. They talked with God face to face NATO done. How? They get familiar with God and hold intimate conversations. Yet I have other people say I am afraid to see God face to face. I would ask questions. Edens night sequencing. I have seen these facts of God than men. An anxious earthworms hunting for a home. I have seen the spotted Samson sky filled with and wings, and I have heard high in the twilight blue. The propellers man in the evening mail, droning hottest Chicago joining across Iowa Illinois. I have said. The print menu wings. Menes fresh flights. Many clean propeller shall beyond the sky. By Fall. We understand God. And the works of wings. In the casual drift of routine. In the day by day mine and the play of careless circumstance, the anecdote emerge. Alive with people in words, errands motives silhouettes. Taller than the immediate moment, the anecdotes emerge. The next town it seems rather than it is, but you find that eight. Identify a private 'cause. You darn full. What would you do I? Throw them in the guardhouse. If you just think you're darn fool and doesn't say it then what? Nothing let it go at that. State what for Mine? Where did you get it from my father? Did he get it from his father? Did he get? He fought I. Well. I'll fight you for. which way to the post office boy now? Ain't. You know and number forty two. Which I think is a winner. Won The raffle the number forty tour to assist? What was it I got the family album and they're paid seven with my grandmother and grandfather both on page seven and I said to myself. This is easy for seven times seven. Time and seven hundred forty to see. What was the last thing Paul Revere said to his horse on the famous ride. Bad you have to work in this kind of a baller waiter. I work your customer but I. don't eat here. That iceberg on horizon. Captain Matt Him get into collision with it spurred medimmune. Move Right along. Nothing happened. No No, no, no, no no I tell you now. What are your yelling for a yes, man vacation? No, can you don't? Have you a criminal lawyer and Berg? Hope, but we haven't been able to prove it on him. Let's wait defines anything with Phelan. We'll take it away from. The attic Dosen. Live with people in word that on. The image of moment. People out. The people say. Gang his working clothes take. been. Hicks from the sticks big down Hicks. They whatever they want. And maybe the old rugged cross all the old gray man. Hits. They hit by the hit songs. It's only a hit when it hits them. They. Drop it like a hot potato. Hold onto it. And whatever they keep changing a song with. Twisted Party ways a new best and never heard. then. Folks. It was in Cincinnati she in Burlington. He was in the gang of Postal Telegraph, Linemen. She was a Putt Tressler in a boarding house. She wrote him. Crying is lonely. Same here the winter went by. and. He came back and they married. And he went away again. Where rainstorms down, Telegraph Poles and wires dropped with frozen sleet. And again she wrote him. Again, he answered same here. Five children are in the public schools. Devotes and as a tax payer. They are known among those who know as honest American citizens living honest lives. Many things that bother other people never bothered that. They have five children. And come. Paddock buds that call to each other satisfy. Sure as he goes away. She writes in. Not He flashes back the all nonsense. Same here? A long time since he was a gang lineman in Saudi. She was pot faster in Burlington boarding house. And they never get tired of each other. See Yes the machine. Never waste anybody's time. Never Watch the former never talks back. Never says is around machine. Yes, the machine. Cut production costs. Man is a man. What can you do with a man in a man? What can you do it but? A machine I take A. Kid Now women and one hundred thirty. All a machine is like an attention and plenty of Gris and plenty Greece. And plunging. Race. Caesar son nearing man. What should he tell that son? Life is hard. These steal the Iraq and this might stand him for the storms and seven for humdrum and monotony. Guide him amid sudden betrayals, Tottenham slack moments knife is a soft loam. Be Gentle. Go easy, and they're still my turban. brutes of, being gentle flashes failed. The growth of FE frail out in pot opposite sometime shattered split rock. Top will counts. So desire. Tell Him. Too much money as killed men and left them dead years before burial. The question look beyond a few easy needs twisted good enough men sometimes into dry. Swatted worms. Time as a stuff can be wasted. Tell him to be a fool. Every so often have no shame of having been a food. Yet learn something out of every folly, hoping to repeat none of cheap funniest. That's arriving into understanding of a world number. Many. Tell him to be alone often. Get himself. And above all tell himself no lies about himself. Whatever the white lies and protective front he may use amongst other people. Tell Him. Solitude. Is Creative. If. He's strong. The final decisions are made and silent rooms. Tell to different from other people if it comes natural easy being different. Let him have lazy days seeking his deepen. Let him seek deep for he's about natural. Then, he may understand Shakespeare the Wright brothers. Have left Michael Faraday. And free imaginations bring changes into a world resenting change. Enough to have time for the web. The people. Is that culture and reservoir of the human reserves. That shape history. The people have the element of surprise. What are the Kings today? What has become of this solid passing thrones? Who are the temporary puppets holding sway? Anything waits around the corner. Sits in the shadows holds an axe waiting for the pint Allah. has eight million men with guns and bayonets. Nothing can happen Lazar said that face. As Paul Tentative Sharon's. They said with our faces. Nothing can happen to the czar the sun, his buddy eight million vanished. Besides sitting a celebrate a little planning squad. The commodified was giving. Undecided traveled into an aerial. I'm chatted. Siberia. While to kyw's also vanished from thrones, ancient and established and black. To Kaiser's back by ten million. Crowns and a gutter. In. The coven well of unforeseen combustions. The people, yes, the people movie terminally the element of surprise changing from an abandoned back to Hannah. Halloween chorus. Shifting its star Soloist. Who'll come fight against the future? What is the decree of Tomato. Haven't people got on and on always taking all of their own. How can the authors of the day against the people in this time? Go can stop them from modern more of that on. The road and villa many broken Hammas. But I men who can't they bought. The people will live on. The learning and plundering people live. Check themselves and again so. They go back to another shing for real toes. The people so peculiar in renewal and come back. You can't live off their capacity to take it. Ten The wilderness put behind. Cheryl Manno always go on. Doggy, Doug, who says. The stronger an who is the stronger? And how held US STRONGER HOLD ON AS TONGA! Will Tomato right of the. BY THE PEOPLE! What markers ever run across from awaiting soil, or when did cold logic bring a child? They asked kite flying sky gaze. And he wished in return to know what uses a baby dreaming scholars who questioned the useless? Who wanted to know mail for the sake of knowing? They saw and harnessed in electrodynamics folks. Coming in time such a billion haase's in one country. They coming in time thirteen billion. Allah. There's. AN EARLY GLIMPSE Dimmed beginning. Heroin, a series of. What comes after the spectrum. With watching the test tubes shaken tomorrow. Settling, torture. Pneumatic Chisel scrapped. What will the international partnerships of the World Laboratories Track down next Y you fueled? amalgams always seems cross-breeds. Unforeseen shortcuts to power. Who's guest is better than anybody else's on whether the breed of fire bringers is run out with the light rays debts raise la phrase. And now for US only in a dim. Way. Do we go from here. Across the video years and a howling winters. deftness dream will be the stronger. The dream of equities will come. Man is a long time coming. Man will yet with. Rather, well I up with rather. You ever listening to Charles Lawton Norman Carbons, adaptation and production of Sandberg First of an American village e based on the works of three great modern writers. With Mr Louder than the cast where Hans Conrad while he man Residues mccambridge Dick Ryan Joan Lauren will ride. Joe Grandba- Lorraine Tunnel Bob Bruce Norman. Field Ross Horace Willard. Jong Franklin Parker Harry Bartell, Edmar and Earl Robinson. Bernard, Herrmann composed and conducted the original score. At the same time next week CBS. We'll bring you the second program of an American trilogy Carlin's production of selections from the writings of Thomas. Again with an original score like Olympia has prize winning Bernard Hermann. The ionized these big John Program was cancelled tonight in order to bring you the previous broadcast. Big Town will be heard at the same time next week over these stations. Let the CBS the Columbia Broadcasting System. It's up to the minute coverage of the invasion of western. Europe. CBS World now brings the latest news development followed by reports by its correspondents at home and abroad. I for the latest news dispatches here is John Daly. Here is what we know officially about the progress of the invasion of Europe at this moment, the second communique from Supreme Allied Headquarters issued early this evening, eastern wartime told us that our forces succeeded in their initial landings, and that fighting continues. Our landings were affected undercover of a heavy air and naval bombardment. We know officially that our naval casualties were light, much lighter than expected rather than Roosevelt, told his radio best conference after noon today, eastern wartime United States naval losses where to destroy US and one landing ship for tanks. To rear admirals of the United States Navy would have bought cruises which took part in the naval bombardment, which preceded the landings Rear Admiral Alan Goodrich, Kirk, commander, of one of the Task Forces Watch the operations from his flagship the cruiser. And Rear Admiral Morton L. Deo was in command of the cruiser Tuscaloosa in American, battleship Nevada pace. The thousand allied ships that made up the striking ARMATA. We know officially to modern. The thousand troop-carrying planes and gliders dropped allied paratroopers and other airborne troops behind the German lines in France. The airborne phase of the operation met with what the Allied High Command described as unexpected success and prime minister Churchill told the House of Commons earlier in the day, but I'll parachute. Troops seized the number of vital bridges before the Germans had time to blow them up. Churchill gave the only official allied indication of just where our troops landed, and how father have advanced. He announced that allied invasion spearhead penetrated the railroad town of Khan nine and a half miles inland, but reports from the German indicate tonight that forces pushed inland from seven and a half to ten miles at key points along a sixty mile front, and the radio said where thirteen miles inland one point north of come. While the official reports are happening, but meagre in detail we do know from the request correspondence and allied pilots who flew over the battle area. That I'll progress appears to be good in every area. We know too that there's no German counterattacks up to this time. Although such attacks are expected momentarily at eight PM Eastern wartime the German controlled Peres radio that an important American naval. Squadron was cruising off Chevron. CBS correspondent child culling would reports that we have already taken some German prisoners. He saw them line up at the end of one of our beachheads. At the same time, the first wounded men from the invasion front have landed back in England and about them. We have this report. Despite their wounds, many were cheerful and smiling. To round out the unofficial reports in the invasion, the London Daily Mail seven dispatch from Stockholm, but Adolf Hitler is expected to make a speech soon from somewhere in the west, where he said to be personal command of the Anti invasion operation, and that's the best news we've had today considering his record debate as commander of the German forces in the field. Now a picture of American fighting men, and how they react in battle by one who has seen them in action. Here is Colombia's war quarter when Reynolds. I know nothing about the mass strategy of war, and it would be presumptuous for me to try to guess what will happen tomorrow or the next day, and I have no idea tall to the final outcome of this most daring all military operation. But I do know Gi Joe. I saw him in action in Sicily and Salerno and I know his reactions. I, know his hopes and his fears. I know that he has been looking forward eagerly to this test. Just as he wants, looked forward to playing and a big high school football game. All. He was a bit nervous about it, but he knew that once it began. His nervousness would leave. It was tough. The Gi Joe Crossing the channel last night. Because, he knew they were enemy minefield that had to be crossed. Then, sitting there on the deck of a ship. Had nothing to do. Nothing to do but think. It was a chaplain. Every lodge ship in the invasion Amada. Chaplain was running during the Sicilian invasion during the Solano operation at Anzio. The G. Gi Joe doesn't want. Any sermons preached to him just. Before we goes into battle. He wants a pat on the back. Sometimes he wants to talk. To unburden himself. That's what Gi Joe did last night. That's got talking with the Padre. And it didn't matter much. What faith the Padre belong to? All chaplains wear the same uniform. And there was only one God at the front. and. The invasion fleet mid the enemy code. Now Gi Joe tightened up. Examined as M, three submachine gun Catholic took it apart, but it together thing it is clips Savannah Munition. He kept telling himself that he wasn't afraid. Telstar once said and Warren piece. Every. Soldier is afraid that he will be week at the decisive moment. Telstar was right. G. I O. G. I joe felt that way. Well. They got near the enemy coast. Nervousness increased. Maybe, he lit a cigarette, then tossed into the deck when an office called sharply, but that out. And, then it was h our. It was tumbling over the side into a waiting LCI. Himself because there was a slight swell, and he grin weekly at his pals indistinct in the same dog. They all spelled as he did. was like that high school just before the kick-off. then. The boat started tug Shar. Wasn't much opposition as I went to show. The boat grounded a few feet from the beach and Gi Joe out keeping his gun high over his head. Adjusting steel helmet. The German, modern machine gunfire opened up. He! Had the bullets whistling past and he ducked instinctively. And he laughed sheepishly. There are no foxhole meaningless channel. He surged fall within the Cold Water Abrasive. Many hit land. Sappers attached to his company dashed ahead to be sure that we're. No mind. Now suddenly, the nervousness left G. Joe. He looked cooley ahead. And when he saw flash, the automatically lifted as Tommy got an sprayed clip of bullets. Now, his long training tone. He did things the right things instinctively. Avoid booby traps and mine. Dash from one bit of cover to another. When mortar shells began to drop close. Indiana's Powell's fanned out the way veterans do. They didn't bunch up in a tight group to be annihilated by one shell. They pressed on. At the five hours is officers told him to eat something. And as pocket was cod bud box of K. corrosion. Ham eggs, spread and biscuits. Concentrated chocolate and best of all cigarette. It was right now and puff a cigarette happily. He kept on advancing all afternoon. Does before darkness blanketed France. Mess orderlies came up with. Cans of C. Rations. G I joe had to eat them cold, but that was our. Yet has made in vegetable has right out of the camp. And they took out the powder lemony found that added some water from his canteen and had a Tin Cup full of pretty good lemonade. He munched a piece of chocolate. They had a smoke and he felt. Good. A message had come through from General Montgomery. Gi Joe Loves Monty. You know why. Allows them because Monte always wins. We Americans like women's. Gi Joe Kid with his powers about money's methods. It promised them that he would have a hot meal in the morning cut by own field kitchen, which would land during the night. That was good news. The I joe grinned and said casually to towel next door him. It wasn't so after all wasn't. This morning. Gi Joe was just another healthy young American kid. Tonight. Tonight. He's a soldier, a veteran, a man who has been tested and not found wanting. He looks forward that the model confidence. So, should we? We should be mighty proud of his sons of ours. They're pretty wonderful. Next an analysis of the strategic and tactical aspects of the fighting. Colombia's military expert Major George Feeling Elliott. Minimizing these thin and savage character of the fighting that lies ahead armies and their allies. Before. They can hope to overcome the resistance of the German. The Germans are day. They are fighting for the last hope which remain for them. The hope of pushing back our invasion of western Europe into the sea, and then turning info thanks to protect the coming Russian thought. It is not a very bright hope. But it is the only hope they have. And they will not give it up easily. Won comforting thought which can sustain us as the battle is giant. And that is the fact that the American army. Is the most capably commanded army with the United, states ever played in the field at the outset of a war. And this is the real beginning of this war as far as large scale, land operations are concerned. Anyone. Who has ever read? Our military history will recall cruel price which has been paid. Paid in the blood of our young men. In order to prove the incapacity of political general. Are Of superannuated general are just plain, stupid generals and all our preceding wars. Even in the war of nineteen, seventeen eighteen. When things are a lot better than they were on the revolution, aren't eighteen twelve on the civil war of fanny. Who are? Still had to be a considerable process of testing of trial and error elimination. Before some of the incapable general officers of that time forgotten up. And this wall matters are very different. I. Don't mean to say that all our office perfect. Or even all of them are in all respects admirable leader. But as a whole represent a far higher, every leadership and all round military capability. And the generals of any of our other wash. At the beginning of the first major campaign. This is because they are picked them. Because there has been applied to them not on the battlefield. Not at the price of blood. Before him insane and then maneuver areas. The process of tests. Strain and ruthless out the unfit. Process quicken all our other Walmart at the wait for the actual fighting begin. And this has also been applied to junior officer by the simple means of infesting the general till it, but they're juniors. Our faith to be generals on active service. Every American general who now commands. A car or an army of American troops have been put through hard unbe unforgiving meal trial. Those who will failed in any degree have been relegated to non combat duties or to the retired list. On the higher the rank and responsibility, the more severe tests, the more exacting requirements. Of that one hundred percent proof against era. Nothing can be in matters as war leadership. Save the actual test award self. But it goes a long way. This process started eliminating the end that before they get to the point whether fitness can cost the lives of our young fellas. Some no doubt will yes remain. The be weeded out. A days will not be many. From of those who failing have been in any way demonstrated have been weeded out already. Further Stern, but highly necessary eliminate of incapable leader, the fathers mothers, lives and fleet hawks of the company at the thanks, the chief of staff of the Army General Guard model. Ever since he took over the duties Thiessen said. He has set himself to ten wanted to get rid of that act of high ranking officer, who always in time of peace seems to climb slowly up the ladder of. And then when war com lots to promote better man for the post, they are no longer capable of holding. General Michael Look back on our past records and he. In his time, he will not repeat that era at any rate. We have seen the result of many battlefields on in many parts of the world. We appeal general sale from some home very promptly. Majority of them ferry on with their tax legislation, and capably whether it be the task of managing cheese Eisenhower Sale. Army Commander our commander that the fees and stuff that. It is now. D Day plus one overseas. For a picture of England on the second day of the invasion, we take you now. The London Giles Shaw reporting. This is Charles Shaw in London. It is the plus one in London. It has to forty five on the second morning of the invasion. And London is asleep after its biggest in four year its biggest days in. If you hadn't read the papers. If you haven't heard the radio. If you adjudged only by appearances, manners of the people you wouldn't have known. It was a big day. London D, Day calmly and soberly. When! I remarked about London's Day com to a policeman tonight. He said well. They're jubilant inside. Apollo American was with me and after the policeman made it remark, the other American said. After all on cure the kickoff in a football game you tear the plays and the final score. Remember anybody who has become about the news emery prize. Something like it's good news. But, usually the person question asked the question of his own. Is the latest news still good? Since we landed in France I thought the best place to dine tonight was a French restaurant favorite in London sell home. Service was entirely usual and Paul. The head waiter usually very for both wasn't hard communicative tonight. It's good news before he says. The best. A few tableclo- strategists were seated nearby table, showing their girlfriends on Pinson Nets of friends on the linen how the fighting was going or should go. At another table, a woman was very remark. It's the same they taken in the limelight, then General Alexander Show in Italy. He got all that criticism about the beachhead, and now that he's doing so well. Nobody will pay any attention to him. She wasn't representative of course, but hers was one of the horses evening. A taxi driver, wanting to know if the late news, but still good explained the I haven't been able to get a paper yet. The radio said still isn't standard equipment in British Hong. Secondary Circus sometimes called the crossroads of London was much the same as usual except there were fewer American soldiers about and fewer American MP's. A streetwalker tried to entice buyers of speaking willie toy dogs, but I saw notetaker. In Piccadilly subway station. I was greeted by an American lieutenant, wearing the wings of an aerial hitter. Noticing my work, what a sponge uniform! How the news laws. I feel them in an expressed wonderment. The absence of the German air force from the beachheads. Navigator replied. I was over there yesterday. I've been over there the last week and I didn't see many German planes, either but they've got some somewhere and they've got some good ones, too. Along the subway tracks empty beds awaited those occupied them in London, but. Those men, women and children who have been bombed out so many times or have been so shaken by the blitz that they wouldn't dare spend a night at home. At early evening, the beds were empty. As darkness near their occupancy began arriving. In fact, they arrived earlier than usual. One of them told me jury sure. I'm over here tonight. He didn't. Along Tottenham Court road, men and women were seen carrying their ten helmets. They probably feared a bombing tonight. Despite the news that the Germans failed to oppose are lending from the air. At fifteen minutes to nine the lobby of the Savoy Hotel look normal. At ten minutes to nine, not only the lobby, the boars and other rooms began emptying into a space. where BBC broadcasts maybe hurt, they were gathering to hear the king, and they listened reverently. At the end of men and women rose sharply to stand while God save. The king was played. Since, the king had exhorted his people to pray I went to Saint. Paul's Cathedral to see whether any worshipers gathered there. Same Paul's was closed. ASSIGNED PROCLAIM THAT INVASION Day prayers for victory had been scheduled for one PM five PM today. Earlier in the day, the chief attraction was the House of Commons where Mr Churchill's vote twice. His First Beach, the only one I can talk about the house was crowded and there was some semblance of excitement, although one reporter noted, it's often crowd of often excited for quite trivial occasions. The audience witted Mr, Churchill. But the House of Commons ritual had to be obeyed. Actions that have been put down when invasion was still something to be guessed, that came up a reply. Questions about laundries and about button polishing in Burma. Communist member gallagher again demanded the evolution of banks. In all seventy three questions. Although at Breakneck, speed Mr Churchill didn't expect questions to be answered so quickly. So there was a few minutes interval between the end the question time and the prime minister's arrival in the house. And that far away from the prime minister sat a man who occupied Mr Churchill's present position twenty six years ago. It was the venerable David Lloyd George Britain's leader in World War One. Effects Mr Churchill with his I during the prime minister's entire speech, never glancing away under the statement had been finished. Effect of the invasion in London was to promote a sharp brownies and the place of French railway bonds, and these bonds are going to guaranteed by the French government. And so London spent. D Day calmly and soberly in most part. It's true that there were long lines of would-be buyers for the afternoon papers when they appeared at the normal time this afternoon, no extras. It's true. The landings frames were the main conversation. But one of London's evening newspaper says Londoners can never again deny there like medicom. Biggest news of this or any other war saw them plotting steadily about their business. Another taxi driver mentioned one sign of enthusiasm, said the Mike. Tips were bigger today. They usually are when people feel, but. No search for London attitude would be complete without a visit to a pup. Night. The pubs have the usual crowd of people drinking. They're mild and bitter or drop of GIN, if there was any. At the exit of one of the I noticed yellowed sign a remnant of nineteen forty. When the shoe was on the other flip. It was Queen Victoria's famous remark. There is no depression in this house, and we are not interested in possibilities defeat. They do not exist. This is Charles Shaw in London. I return enough to CVS in New York. Next Washington's latest news on the invasion. We take you now to Washington John Prior. Reporting It wasn't the Washington show today at all and the High Command here is leaned backwards to avoid any appearance of trying to take the headlines from general, Eisenhower and his men. Actually there was no more excitement in Washington. Today then there must have been kicked. Just, the remote objective and rather helpless excitement of men and women whose boys that are over there with chips down at last. Great adventure underway. The temperature of their feeling can be measured as accurately by the president's own personal reaction as many other way. For several days off and on before this event, Mr Roosevelt been working on the wording of. Do they prayer liberation? Last night he sat up very late. Giving the last fine touches while messages came pouring into the White House from General Eisenhower's headquarters. But the Roosevelt finished his prayer in the early morning, and when it became evident, the first stage of the invasion had come off well, he went to bed and slept a little while at ten o'clock tonight eastern wartime, the president will read this prayer to the nation and the broadcast over this network, and he has asked that all Americans join with him in that devotion. Afternoon at his regular news conference Mister Roosevelt seem very well pleased with reports from friends. But he added a sober warning that there's a long road. Get ahead and a great deal of hardship and suffering. The same reaction was happening on Capitol Hill where both the Senate and House opened their sessions today with a moment of silent prayer. But when it came to Real News, Washington took a back seat. This is the world headquarters for the United Nations war. But now that the biggest of all operations is underway, all the top command is preferred. Leave the glory, the credit and the power to the men who shooting a gun. Like all the rest of us, these men are the high command feel they must only wait now for the outcome and for General Eisenhower report. But they still have plenty to do. What Obam the invasion of Europe is only one phase of the war that covers the world. They must still plan train, men and mass supplies for everything theater. At noon today generals, Marshall, Arnold and Admiral King called on the president and stay with them in conference for an hour and a half. They seem to be in high spirits, but they refuse to talk except for a very brief comment by Admiral King on behalf of the whole group. The invasion. He said there's going all right so far. The most popular subject for discussion and speculation here today have been the Russians and the Japanese except for the direct news from France of course. Beyond this current battle to uppermost questions in the minds of serious, not man. Why are the Russians going to open their final big drive from the East? And when will next big news come from the Pacific, Speculation on those subjects would fill a good sized volume, but so far there's only injected. As full confidence here, however that the Red Army will will fulfill its promises in full measure. The only question now is when the blow of strike. As for the Pacific there may be some interest in the story that was put out by British sources afternoon. They said they had information that for every American ship in the allied invasion of France, there were three British ships that may be some point reminder that I've asked naval. Force in the Pacific is still at top strength, unaffected by attacking Europe and ready for still greater blows against the Japanese. I, returning to New York. The Judy canova program usually presented at this time of most of these stations by the Colgate palmolive peet. Company was canceled tonight that we might present a special broadcast just-concluded CBS the Columbia Broadcasting System. Is Five minutes of the latest news brought to you by Johns Manville tonight. Because of the invasion, our entire time would be devoted to the news. Your reporter Bill Henry. General is an hour tonight issued a blunt communique, which says that allied forces have succeeded in their initial landings in France fighting continues. Losses have been less than expected. We are warned that the first enemy counterattacks may be expected within forty eight hours. Behind those blunt words lies the story of the greatest try fitness attack of all time, a stupendous land, sea and sky invasion, so spectacular and dramatic that it has all, but blotted out all other warn us the allied forces in Italy whose capture of surely deserves to be remembered more than twenty four hours have now given nearly ten miles north of Italian capital American bombers from Italy, which landed in Russia, the other day, made a tremendous attack on an airfield at Galazi Romania today and returned to the Russian basis. Era Activity continues in the Pacific Macarthur's troops have resumed their advance on the island northwest of New Guinea. Vanguard has been heavily bombed, and we're still making slow progress in Burma. That's a quick roundup of the other war news. In Europe the invasion effort commencement midnight last night under forbidding skies bad weather it is now known had forced the twenty four hour postponement of the invasion, the great black bombers of the Rif grew the honor of pulling out all the stops as the invasion organ roared to a mighty crescendo in the first eight hours of the day, the RAF followed by our heavy bombers for the almost unbelievable total of eleven thousand tons on the French coast. while. The last bombs were still falling. I was further blackened by swarms of troop, carrying planes from which grim shoot US leapt at a given moment to seize vital areas, such as bridges, road, junctions and open areas, in which by nightfall, a thousand troop, carrying planes and gliders, and put a huge force estimated at twenty thousand airborne troops on French soil. Hundreds of tiny fighter craft their wings, and bellies striped black and white for identification purposes swarmed like angry bees, above and around the carriers, meanwhile offshore a monthly procession of shipping, thousands of them of all shapes and sizes, ranging from buzzing pt votes and grimy minesweepers to majestic battleships, ranged across the channel, informed offshore the battlewagons, adding to the mad din with their sixteen inch shells, while smaller craft spun smokescreens to protect the invading American British and Canadian Infantryman. American naval commander was Rear Admiral. Alain Kirk veteran of North African and CECILLIA landing operations in the battle line where the US Nevada survivor Pearl, harbor and HMS war spite scarred veteran of British naval triumphs from Narvik in Norway to the awful slaughter of muscle, lenient sailors. Mata Pan in the Mediterranean. Forming up like flower, girls and bridesmaids at a wedding landing craft away ashore, and began the dual task, overcoming the German defences by a lament, fought their way, and under a junction with the paratroopers and airborne forces that in brief is picture of d day across the channel as the situation stands tonight, we must rely on fragmentary items of information. is now clear that the major effort or the first day entailed landing around the edges and inland at the base of the Normandy, peninsula, which has sure bird, the most important port in northern France at its peak. All the way from Lahar at the mouth of the same bar are very close to shore bird. We've made landing. To the west of the peninsula we appear to have made landings on the Beautiful Channel Islands of Jersey and Guernsey inland up the base of the peninsula are airborne troops have landed at several places, and the focal point of fighting seems to be the ancient city of Khan, spelled c. a. m.. It's about ten miles from the coast, and we have the word of Winston Churchill at our men were fighting inside the city late this afternoon that completes the encirclement of the peninsula. Has Come and gone. We've had good initial success. The fate of the invasion still hangs in the balance. We can feel confident that our men are thoroughly trained expertly leading equipment second to none today, King George of England called for a nationwide vigil of prayer for the success of arms in this country over in this this network an hour from now, President Roosevelt will lead this nation in in a prayer, the text which has been published in which he asks all of us to join. And now here is Tony Marvin. Bill Henry and the news was brought to you by Johns Manville. This is CBS the Columbia Broadcasting System.

London France US Europe Joe Grandba- Lorraine Mr Churchill CBS President Roosevelt Kings Columbia Broadcasting System Charles London Bernard Hermann Michael Faraday Sandberg Burma Adolf Hitler Washington prime minister Nevada Charles Shaw
Streaming In Place: MSW S01E18

The Televerse

36:20 min | 11 months ago

Streaming In Place: MSW S01E18

"The television. Streaming. This. The end of week thirty one, this is the end of week thirty to thirty two. Okay. See See. This is why I don't do this episode one, hundred, forty, nine if you're curious, I'm actually curious. All right. It's it's episode what one, hundred and forty, nine of streaming and place. Yeah. You have to keep this. I'm having a full body reaction. WHOO. That's wild. We started this five minutes ago. Well in that case, hello listeners will come back to streaming in place. I'm one of your co hosts Noah Patrick and enjoying does ever by kate calls a say locate locate. Good that's what I was looking for and Allison is still in a state of shock as we ended the week thirty two. with episode number one, hundred, and forty nine. Place. She she's in deep denial about this folks just deep deep denial which I think we are. That's just the state that we exist in right now but today onstream place were discussing modern she wrote and we're not discussing murder. She wrote as a show because that's just way too much talk about it ran for twelve thirteen seasons and so many backdoor pilots. We are talking very specifically about the season one episode depending on your how you count it what eighteen or nineteen or twenty on ems we're trying our. Okay. Good. Says he says, the pilot is episode zero someplace opposite one other places and exit one in episode to on Prime. So because of that double eggs yeah. Yeah. So depending on where you watched I watched on peacock. Nineteen but honestly can't remember murder takes the bus, which is one of my favorite upsets from the first season and one of my favorite of this show as A. in no small part because of its star studded ridiculously stacked to the walls guest cast but also just a psycho refer no particular reason So I'M GONNA throw to cater since we never get to throw a kate I kate. What's your experience with murder takes the boss did it did it did the I? Love the score for psycho so much guys I haven't gotten might have played part of at once but it is a massively huge score in the history of film music. Because well, first of all, 'cause it's amazing. But also because it is a very rare thing in film music where it is a fully string orchestral score, there are no wins. There are no, there's no percussion, but it's just a string orchestra. So as violinist you know when we have to do like POPs concerts, do me movie music and stuff it's very popular choice because it's cheap because you have to pay other musicians. A different instruments to bring bring them in for, and you can get do fewer rehearsals for all the wins and everything and yet despite that I don't I've seen it performed I don't think I've had the opportunity to play at myself but I love it. It's super So you knew I was GonNa love this episode when it opens in a soon as they're on the bus in the pouring rain, we are marrying crane shoutout. which is one of the lead character shall we say from psycho who spends the opening sequence of that movie tensely nervously driving in her car with do you know just hanging over her with this score? So the fact that the for murder takes the bus like well, the name of the episode is murder takes about us. They're GONNA be on a bus Let's do psycho, but we're not GONNA pay. Bernard Hermann. So. Let's just do psycho ish. We're not going to quote it where he's psycho adjacent for the scoring you better believe I was snippy like waiting for quit. Oh, they're not. That's actually kind of more interesting more challenging as a composer to evoke without actually. So yes, I enjoyed this episode and I enjoyed it from the opening minutes on the bus because of the PSYCHO REF Were you guys anywhere near as as as I guess chuffed. I will say as myself for that you know I'm not sure that I picked up I also love the score and I'm not sure that I picked up on it on my own I've seen this episode so many times though that when I'm noticing new things, it tends to be as often the case with we actually like little tiny minuscule acting beads. Those are the things where I'm like I'm like room mcclanahan to so much little tiny stuff. It's so fun to watch actors. Who Know Their Shit and just put in the work and don't hold back even when it seems like it's something a little bit silly. It's one of my favorite things to watch. So everybody is really firing on all cylinders here. So point being all of the little things I noticed tend to be like room and clan tightened our lives a tiny bit. Or a Linda. Blair didn't roller is and you could tell she wanted to rise but she didn't and like all of that stuff But I think that the opening is just great. They do such a nice job of setting up this feeling of dread while also making sure that it's got both of its feet planted firmly in cozy mystery territory I think a perfect example is when and I can never remember his name I'm going to because it's such a good name hold on It's they'll bow tie guy what is his name Cyrus letting? Well, when Cyrus laughing walks up and is just chatting with Jessica as they wait for the bus as what is want to do and then there's thunder and lightning, and then he goes seems like rain in about twenty minutes every time it gets me every time I laugh. What I don't know if that was intended as a joker not but I hope it was because it's very funny like it's a very obviously going to raise I feel it in my bones it's about to rain as there's like Kuku. In the latest flashing So anyway, my point is that I also really enjoy all of the ingredients That and the way together as we're leading up to the diner I think it is incredibly successful. It feels a lot like. And obviously intentionally, this is a maybe murder she wrote most intentional act that Oh mosh you get the sense of all of the players arriving one at a time and the little details that draw you in about that person and and then they all get on the bus and you all know they're going somewhere to be trapped together. Even before the storm takes out the roads essentially You just know that's what's going to happen and it's so satisfying. Yeah, and I think that Agatha Christie points really spot on in no small part because the cast as I said, it's kind of ridiculous for this episode which would it be is ridiculous in like Agatha Christie adaptations you think about like either version of either cinematic version murder on the Orient Express which is stacked. Has Linda Blair it has Michael. Constantine is Terence Knox who's great on you've got their lynnville who's amazing in this you've got the aforementioned mcclanahan You've got Albert Sal name who's also really really great. You've got Mills Watson in the thankless roles, the diner owner, but he's really really good enough. I think and David Wayne as Cyrus lesson laughing well, who is also just very goodness episode And it's just a WHO's who crackerjack box treat of TV character actors who know exactly what to do and when to do it and how do it. So it's always a delight like you say Alison to go back to this and watch everyone do little bits of business and everyone also get little bits of business to play. So I just really enjoyed even if in particular Lynnville gets the short end of the stick because he just gets to play an asshole and it's Larry Lynnville gets plays asshole. Poor, frank, Burns poor poor frank birds. But every, and then you could Tom Bosley coming back as. Amos and so he pops up that's always a delight. I was always really upset that he had his own show and heavily murder. She wrote that was always really sad for me but yeah no, it's like just full on Agatha Christie of all right which then there were none situation we in right now it kind of deal. And the answer I think is really delightful because of how you get all these really famous people and what's a roof Lucifer we recognize them they done it. The problem is we recognize everyone in this in this episode. So who did it and one of the real pressures for me in this is the ways that they structure and play out those reveals the other thing. I, really really like about this episode. Talking `bout who done it all know them the Arcus I was having expecting it to go full murder on the Orient Express and I won't explain what the reins in case anybody doesn't know what that means. But I like, did they play with that a little bit maybe like yes, he was stabbed a hobby but he was zoo stuff was rifled through by somebody else. But he was actually strangled like. So the like well, we can at least get like a solid three who done it out of this situation and maybe we can even try to spend some more you know. They're they did a good job of building up that tension in a way that like I. Won't say it's believable because it's absolutely not. It's ridiculous. You buy in early on so like you're really comfortable going along with with the journey in the story of it, I was disappointed to the diner and all of the cycle music goes away. Just. Could Forget Can we get like a like English period drama background music instead or something but I did find second-half bit dragged bit more than I wanted. And data it. It was missing some of the flair to sort of settle into the normal murder. She wrote episode but it was still because of those performances and because of you know. Like you say because like meaningful glance capital G. from room mcclanahan, she's noticing that book so I will as well you know. There's a lot of really fun details that keep you these K-. Kept me very invested one of the things that I love about her perform. She obviously was a national treasure, a Titan of sitcoms This was like six ish months before she before golden girls debuted. So right. So same associated year for TV she's a great your an obviously was already a big star within the world of sitcoms specifically when golden girls kicked off But one of the things that I admire most about her performance here is that she does so much to contribute to the slow ratcheting up the tension by getting progressively more and more anxious when she and then she'll come down a little like when she apologizes for snapping at the diner owner about the coffee and whether or not it was poison. She just so loud noises happened and she reacts in a really big way, and that makes everyone else more tense and. The kind of little attention to detail thing you can tell that she thought about her emotional, the progression of her emotional state which when you're doing story like this one when everybody is trapped in the same space and we're sort of locked room situation. Is Really Important I also want to mention. I was is not in the chat with us today because she had to work. But we were talking about it last night as I was watching to texting about it and she asked me whether or not. This qualifies as a bottle episode and this is one of those like mushy grey areas but the answer is no It's more than one location. Only one of those locations is like full standing set, which is the bus we do occasionally see people take the bus whether this was. The first one or not I'm not sure but we see them on buses but there are outside shots. There's rain and all of that staff and I be true bottle episode has to also be about conserving money in that is not this isn't an episode where they were like, let's pinch pennies no 'cause they hire to many famous people I know they hired so many famous people and then also I mean some of the storm effects are better than others but you know it's not it isn't Seventeen people I was trying to think of like a re-lead straightforward bottle episode and I mean the flies the obvious one. But I I don't know seventeen we spoke. You've mentioned mcclanahan and the Librarian and one of the notes I had about this actually very specifically pertained to you alison, which is. You. Probably should just steal your book from the library so they have to buy it again. So they keep goosing the book sales. Yeah. They they've. Put, late fees as A. Thing of the past here in Chicago I think it's permanent maybe it was due to the pandemic I don't know I was not paying attention. I should know that regardless they just keep automatically renewing it for me. So I'm going to have to work really hard to steal my own book from the library. I haven't put it back yet because I haven't put the letter in it yet. So I'm so it's right. It's right here. I do this week because they just keep renewing it for me. Marcus, says just complex is a criminal mastermind getting people to steal her books to boost sales. Part of that that stood out to me besides just being a charming little interaction is that it is was like half to two thirds of the way through the season. It's been a couple years since the pilot like when's the last time? That was the case? The delays not like a year each season is like, no, it's been a few years since the first episode. Which I mean, you Kinda just like it's one of the charms but also just you kind of roll with it kind of things like you watch these episodes whenever they aired and sometimes you watched it like two years after the fact depending on like rerun schedules or five years after the fact when you watched it in syndication. A Lotta time syndication just didn't air the episodes in order they just like pick the best episodes and kept running them So yeah. No, it's very silly when you watch all of it in order and go wait what how, why I'm confused how fast does she churning out these books he? Marcus just let also happened to have some witnesses, her getting her fingerprints, all of the crime scene and evidence. I was GONNA say like, when did we start our discussions about just Fletcher's serial killer because. Early like they were not following protocol like only trying to think of show, Kabanov cop way they followed goal elementary. They're very distinct about always putting on gloves and stuff but like she's just touching everything like this is a murder weapon but then also a search all his pockets let's play all of these fingerprints usually and I don't know if this is maybe something that evolved with the show but usually murder she wrote is really good about making sure Jessica always has a handkerchief with her. So she's picking something up she's using handkerchief but yeah, all of the lake the little touch. not not great the most unbelievable thing is that no one suspects Jessica someone would have suspected. Jessica. She's a mystery writer. Someone would have said, well, maybe you did it you know how to plan the perfect. Crime. That's what I would've said I would've said I think maybe we should wonder about the mystery writer. Maybe, the doesn't wonder if the person who steer WHO's talking in the ear of the police officer in Francis the how. Yeah. It's it is. One of the delightful. Reds of murder she wrote that Jessica is extensively also the sheriff of Cabot Cove at least while Amos tupper is still the sheriff because he just we'll say something he'll look to her for confirmation and she constantly and it's great. It's it's very, very funny and you could tell she doesn't. WanNa step on his toes but like Amos, maybe we should do this. Maybe, we should look at the body. Disneyland. Rally probably. Where everyone was maybe I don't know it's possible. That sounds like a great idea ma'am. Oh Buddy buddy no wonder you got run out of Cavaco by that young guy for a little. Battle. Election episode. That is a bad episode. One of the few like. While you should probably watched this at a specific point because it will get referenced young. Ha. So what do we think about the ways in which this you mentioned that it Kinda slogs? Little Bit I. Don't really find that to be the case but I one of the things I really like about is that Constantine gets that great concussion seen about stabbing him with a screwdriver add like the thirty minute mark and you're Kinda like wait hang on obviously this isn't it? However what's the? Yeah. And like a lot of that I think is bolstered by I think Constantine's really really great in that scene like he gets juiciest bit of everyone and he I think he really really nails it. But what do you think about like the rest of everything getting played out? Did you suspect that are very out of place captain? See The guy wearing a sea captain costume. was was culprit all along or do they set up a red herring sort of to kind of get a good sense of things I guess waiting for there to be more red herrings actually like I kept it actually appreciate it. There weren't so many. But like when are they gonNa win is Linda Blair seen going to happen and it never? She never gets anything to do and. I was I was actually looking for more but I do agree that the the confessions is really good and I you know I I was less I was much more interested in Linda, Blair? Than I was the characters husband and so when he got the more interesting stuff to do I was like l.. She's just there to be pregnant and going honey but no. So. That was disappointing to me I thought that we would get more with like laying out. All of the like where everybody was at what time. In Reading Jin. Greg that either but I think it's more like looking at how these whodunnit episodes like these accuracy style like everybody trapped in a you know the ski lodge the slopes are closed because there was an avalanche right? These things through time that that format has like. It Crystallized. But it has like a tweet tweet like over the years. So this is an earlier version of that and eventually kind of charming to me that they imply but never bothered to specifically say while actually the guy playing the arcade game, you don't have to play it for it to make the noise it just he has no alibi in this I kept waiting for them to spell out more of that So I hope the stuff we got was good I liked. That in the end, there are reasons for far too many of them to WanNa kill this guy very little interest you how do you know he's GonNa be on. This is literally the only bus that stops that place all the Whitey I mean I guess I think I mean I think probably it is. It's not. It's obviously like in the Greyhound Line not the short travel line, right? Yeah So it it's probably the same route every day and it probably makes One. Run. And leaves at the same time. So you could in theory grow I grew I grew up in a town. Not, obviously not have it go but sort of similarly sized and we didn't have a bus that's not that stopped there but you could drive to the next town over and get. A W. Yeah I had a very pleasurable experience I watched it twice twice since we last spoke but one of the Times I watched it I watched it with Tom who had not seen it who was like now murderous you as you think it's not my thing I'm not going to watch it, and then of course, he watched the entire thing because it's murder she wrote. But of course, you're going to watch it. But I got to he's a talker during TV and I got to watch him have and listen to him have all of the moments that you're supposed to have. which was a really useful way to watch this episode honestly, because Kate like you I also saw Oh will Jessica walked away from the the video game and it's still making noise so that there's a big hole in his alibi and I was surprised they didn't return to it. I. Wonder if maybe this seems so deliberate that I wonder if maybe it's on the cutting floor somewhere. Yeah But. Tom Said, we saw the screwdriver, he said Oh it's the bus driver. then he said Oh I guess maybe not at the point when the confessions speech happened again as intended he said Wait there can be jewelry in that briefcase. He left it on the table again, exactly as intended and there were a couple others where I was like. Oh when she started protesting about the book, he said that because definitely in her back, right. So he did all of the things that you're supposed to do the format of specifically mysteries like these. Are So recognizable When you're crafting one, it's all about thinking about what the viewers going to see and then playing to and against that. So sometimes people get the experience of figuring out something before Jessica does and sometimes they get duped by the form itself. So for example. We all rule out the bus driver because he confesses. But then that is the big trick is that is why he did it. That's why he stabbed him with the screwdriver so that he could have essentially an alibi Which I think is really brilliant. That is the that is the choice they make like sophisticated. That's sinking. Like your audience and like a mystery writer at the same time. So that is the one where I was like yeah, wilfling. Jess. I was waiting for the conversation around who has the hands and the size to strangle that guy because he wasn't small. Feels like that would eliminate a good chunk of the diner. Marcus. Says the murder it would. It would still get search that. while we have anything else marcus few of anything toss in the chat toss it to Alison. I since Kate needs drink water for no particular reason. Anything stand out to you about this episode Oh I. Mean I think it's just really good. You know we tend to. In. The critical sense undervalue things that are formulaic sometimes and I think that formulas good formulas have stood the test of time for a reason and when you can sort of inject new life into the form that's great. But you don't always have to do that sometimes, you can just execute it really well and I. Think this is there are much weirder episodes of murder she wrote and the next time we do a single episode of murder she wrote we are definitely going to be one of the ones where Jessica plays her own British cousin on the Music Hall performer what you don't want to the virtual reality upset consumer vote. I mean, there are so many choices. We can watch the one where Bryan. CRANSTON's the victim that one has another really stacked guest cast They're all we've got lots of choices. I also am a big fan of the like Jessica Fletcher presents episodes because about halfway through the run, Angel ends where he's like I. I'm an icon why am I doing twenty three episodes of this season? I Still WanNa, do it. But like I'm I'm an icon. So they cut down. There are certain number of episodes a season, quite a number of them in a couple of seasons where she essentially is like, oh I didn't see you there. I was just thinking about my next book, and then she talks about the basis of a story and essentially narrates a story in which disclosure does not appear and those tend to be really fun and silly with big guest are so. That can Howard episode. Plays like a former football coach or football player who solves mysteries with a dog forget that one. So weird, there's another one. There's another one where speaking of dogs where a dog gets framed for murder because the person who died is owner and then that very rich man left the bulk of his fortune to the dog. So then I don't remember who actually did it but somebody frames the dog for murder. It's so good. Anyway, this is just the money obviously up Marquez motive for the dog and the the motive is the money. In his will. It's I mean obviously it's an accident like that's what they're. They're trying to say that the dog accidentally shot his owner anyway But there's something to be said for an episode like this one, which is just it's just a mystery and a good one and It's like crawling under a warm blanket I love it. Yeah, it's just absolutely delightful. I've really I really had fun revisiting. I will second alison we were saying like I am a big fan of the procedural as listeners of the podcast now and a well-executed procedural is one of my favourite TV, things So it was fun to to get a little time especially if it's a good halloween kind of like spooky, but still very murder she wrote but also still like atmospheric enough. You now to really be a good fit with the season in all. So it was it was delightful to spend some time with just culture, which is always fun but also with this gas cast and to have little both at Marcus says, the should been longer to really get more of the characters. Suspects would have been all four that the last thing I will mention his we've already kind of shot it out the diner owner. And I really liked that performance in the writing per him as well because it's like somebody's killing people like your diner and you're he's very chill. He's very like. Well, you guys is a murderer different like admitted to attempted murder and this person is admitted to rifling through stuff being a thief in. In all this stuff anybody a warm up of their coffee. When he decided it comes on the house guys like you guys are going through enough. It is absolutely lifeline. You tell like there's just an air of. Well, if you guys weren't here, I will be stuck in the storm by myself with no company coming in no way for me to get home. So Hey, at least it's something entertaining. Let's find out who did it. So there's just so much to appreciate about this upset I'm really glad that we the decided to do this one. You know the thing that I like about it is to me his energy reads leg yet I mean this happens every couple of weeks. You know like he's very matter of fact about it. Apple Pie ready for the next murder. And Yeah of course, bring a slice of Cheddar. Let me know when you get to the stage where we're debunking the red herrings I would love things guys. Marcus was this in Maine could this be Steven? Stephen King University I is in Maine because they're on their way to Portland from Cavaco. So yes, they are in Maine. So yeah, absolutely. This is a part of the Stephen. We can make this a part of the Stephen King Cinematic and Literary Universe Mills Watson was the adaptation. So it all checks out to be on the storm of the century so. For another on Yahoo Mover being obsessed with storm of the century in the mid nineties. VR and. So. Good. NFL. Anyway. She'll hat soon. The you have any we should. Maybe we should do that after our next show but Nole, do you have any thoughts where we do that? No, I'll just cosign everything the both of you just said anything I would have said you both just said in terms of formula. Informat and everything. So you're both very, very great. So I don't either added. Kate why don't you tell us about our next show and are kind of chain in four? Absolutely. So listeners, we all be going onto another show that I likely allow. Alison. To introduce because she's GonNa be taking over hosting duties because I haven't seen it. But we're going to be switching from every day we've been doing for We've been missing days here and there we need to scale back. We got too much other work in like stuff going on right now. So we're not able to sustain the everyday thing. So but we're going to keep going doing Mondays and Wednesdays so to percents week and You're always listeners welcome to join in on the zoom and you can. Reach out on twitter if you don't have the link for zoom and I can hook you up or you can search through the feet it's bay. It's back in the twitter feed yourself to look a little bit but we'll be switching to alison our new show lodge forty nine lodge forty nine is a sadly short-lived AMC series. That's pretty recent If you have never heard of it, it would seem that that's by design. Didn't into a great job selling what is an admittedly hard to sell show but wow, i. wish it had landed on a network that was I don't know it's not like a him Z. is done bad by its TV show but was more interested in sort of finding the right way to talk about a strange genre. Bending emotionally complex ensemble. Comic drama about fate and loneliness Graham. Excited already it's really good. It's really really good unfortunately when we reach the end of the second season, that's it for the show. So I and I stopped partway through the second season I just got too busy. So I've been saving those episodes for a while. So I don't actually know how it ends. I have no idea how well the second season finale works as an unintentional series finale but I'm excited to see it. You can watch at least in the United States you can watch lodge forty-nine on Hulu Now. That Marcus will also have easy access to it and if prime and Canada Great So Priming Canada and Vince I duNNo. Tell us where you you're GONNA be washing. and I'm really looking forward to talking about it. There are there is there are a number of excellent performances, but there's one performance in forty nine in particular that I am so excited for Kate Knoll to see because it is just masterful and show wonderful and you're about to both become huge fans of actor. You might not have seen very much before which is so exciting for me. So yeah, lot forty, nine starting Monday. Nobody knew anything about the show I know absolutely nothing about the show just that unite kept discussing trying to watch it and then we never did. Marcus says I know it's well regarded by nothing of what it is actually about and when it started I kind of was hesitant to watch it because of the way it was presented. In the ads and stuff which was very much like. Listless, somewhat lost. White middle-aged do who is belongs to alive and is having a hard time but has no trouble with money and I was like I don't really need that story my life right now, and by the time I found out from people who were watching it that actually it's really interesting and really good as like that would be. A lot of work to catch up with. And then the praises kept growing and but so did like the hell behind was and so when I realized that was not going to catch up by the time it ended I was like, okay well sometime, and so I'm excited to be now. It's good. It feels like a good show for the moment like it's just weird enough that I think it's gonNA appeal and also for anyone who is feeling like kate were man I. Don't want to watch a show about a good looking straight white guy with with no money problems I am delighted to inform you that the premise of the entire show is that he has giant money problems. Seed that is now conveyed to me in their heads. Yes. Giant I mean I think perhaps you're confusing. Wyatt wrestle with the key with Dud, which is his character's name because why Russell is, of course, the child of two very famous people So he has no problem with money but dud the entire show. It's all about the launching point is He's squatting and apartments that no longer belonged to him because he was visited essentially like he doesn't that yeah no money debt crippling debt, no money and and like very little skills We'll see what three people who work in media have to say. Yes. We'll see what alison and all have to say about well. I wonder if my skills are useful a religion doggy do a part time writer and most of the time classical violinist right and we're headed into a recession. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Fair, still I I like to believe that people will always need music lessons anyway you can join us on our lodge forty nine journey starting on Monday which I'm excited about, and we are actually despite the fact that we're going down to two days a week are actually going to do something on Tuesday ktar sort of like a little crossover with one of the other podcasts. I'm on I do not have a link for yet, but we're going to be using a platform called crowd cast kate will both tweet it It is a really great Interactive Broadcasting Katie we're GonNA talk, about Comfort Food TV If you need a distraction on election day. So one thirty just like it normally is comfort food TV yet way to talk about they shoot horses don't be. You can watch while you're in line to vote if you haven't already. Yes. If you if you have not yet already or you can you can listen crowd cast have mobile capabilities you can listen while you're walking to a box to put your mouth mail in ballot in the certified box and not in the mail you can do that to. My partner and I did it's good. It's fun. It's very satisfying. Well that's for today. So thank you Marcus for hanging with us in the zoom. Thank you everyone for joining us an over the garden wall and murder. She wrote back next week with night. My. Mom.

murder Alison Jessica Fletcher Marcus Kate Knoll writer mcclanahan Linda Blair Agatha Christie Amos tupper Constantine Orient Express Allison Bernard Hermann Noah Patrick Tom Bosley Mills Watson Cavaco Maine
Invisible Arts 08: Carl Reiner and the Way Things Ought To Be

Rock N Roll Archaeology

20:18 min | 10 months ago

Invisible Arts 08: Carl Reiner and the Way Things Ought To Be

"Welcome to invisible arts with richard gibbs brought to you by all the upon this episode is named carl reiner and the way things ought to be back in ninety three. My agent richard craft pitched me to carl reiner to score his upcoming comedy fatal instinct. Kara was an icon. His stand up routines with mel brooks were hilarious exemplified by their bits about the two thousand year old man as director he had held many classic movies with steve martin. The jerk dead. Men don't wear plaid and one of my all time favorites. All of me as an actor he appeared in ocean's eleven ocean's twelve and ocean's thirteen in in another of my all time favorites as the lead in the russians are coming the russians are coming alongside. Alan arkansas brilliant turn. A russian submarine officer. And every american of a certain age grew up on the hit sitcom carl created and produced the dick van dyke show. He cast himself as dick van. Dyke overbearing boss. Alan brady dick van. Dyke show dick van. Dyke rose marie morey amsterdam. Larry matthew mary tyler moore richard craft and i put together real of my music and sent it over to carl and then next thing i knew i had a meeting with the legend himself. Carl not have been more gracious and encouraging. We had a lovely chat. The movie was just going into production at the time. Bid unusual to be interviewing at that stage but carl one of the main theme to be written ahead of time as there were a couple of musical jokes embedded in the screenplay pitched to him that the score be written as a classic film noir score in the style of bernard hermann and alex north. That style is already so arch that only takes about a two percent amplification to tip into comedy no typical comedic scoring needed. Nope it's ocado strings. He apparently agreed because hired the next day. My music editor will kaplan contacted me right away as he had heard i had secured the job. It's true. I as soon as i knew you were going to do a show. Carl i told you about my long history of watching the dick van dyke show with my dad and chicago all those years and the opportunity to meet let alone work with carl was was too good adds up. I said about realizing the main theme immediately as one of the first scenes being shot was a bit with the fem towel. Played by sean young walking. Sexily down the street at night as she sachet to the theme the camera reveals clarence clemens. The big man himself following her scoring her every hips way with his sax playing. My theme Uh-huh carl hired are three little kids. Two extras in a scene. Shot on the santa monica pier. They made the cut but blink. And you'll miss him. My mother flew out from florida for a visit and she came with me to one of the location shoots. Carl immediately set out the charm. Her and insisted she sit right next to him. In one of the high chairs as he was directing what mench as the end it was coming together. We'll constructed the temp track. Following my idea of using classic orchestral film. The war scores usually a temp track is somewhat haphazard by design. It is there to act as a placeholder as the film is assembled so the filmmakers can see and hear how everything is working a test screening arranged for an invited audience of a couple of hundred people. I sat next to will excited. To see carl's first draft will not simply laid some music and he scored movie meticulously with the music of past masters. Every nuance was perfect. Every gesture caught motivations enhanced throughout. I realize that will was out the blow carl away with his amazing temp track but in so doing he had set an incredibly high bar for me to hurdle when composing the final score. He'd thrown me under the bus about halfway through the screening. I leaned over. He will is whispered to his self-satisfied mug. Yes fuck you. I said that with a smile that inadvertent gauntlet that will head thrown down. Turned out to be very good thing. I like to think. I rose to the occasion at this point. I want to bring my lifelong buddy phil given into the story. Highly regarded composer in his own right. Phil had orchestrated dozens of my scores for film and tv including the simpsons. Step into right cues for me when the schedule was simply too demanding for any one person to handle such was the case on fatal instinct like me and will fill had grown up on the genius writing acting and producing of carl. Reiner so carl reiner during the time we were working on. Fatal instinct hit just finished his book all kinds of love. And my dad was such a carl. Reiner fan that. I bought the book in head. Carl sign it for my dad to gordon. I sent it to my dad who i think. Read it in a couple of days and just told me he loved it so i took a piece of score. Paper from one of the cues that I had the honour of writing for you And so i said. Could you wish my dad. Happy birthday. And he said gordon. I'm so glad you liked my book. I'll have to write you another love. Carl reiner and so my dad frame met in that was on my are mantle until my dad died so will could you share the story of carl's longtime editor. Bud mullen in the stripper. Gram your carl. Couldn't have been the sweeter guy on ever get one time when carl came in and he started cleaning up my room. And i like carl. Please don't do this. And you just that kinda guy. Everybody loved him. And we we love buddy. Too and bud love the ladies. That's that's all. I can say and and at his age and so close to permanently retiring. He didn't much care who knew it. So in a lull towards the finishing the film. We thought it be funny if we hired a party a stripper for buds birthday party. That was coming out and that we would introduce her as a prospective assistant above would certainly be giving her the over and and then hit the music and Much hilarity would ensue. The whole key to this working was keeping your mouth shut. Which unfortunately neither of my two colleagues did stephen for some reason. Let it slip to karl secretary and we get a call. The next morning into carl's office and there's some guy in there who we don't really know who it is and carl's telling us that you know. He respects that. We're just trying to have a little fun. He was saying that what we were doing really was not respectful to women and he really just didn't think we do this. We call it off right away and Had a had a fine albeit not as exciting a birthday party for but it turns out that the fella who's in the room was a journalist from florida lo and behold one day you open the l. a. times and there was a running series. They had called. Qna anna turns out. Is carl reiner the opening paragraph. Carl reiner is chew and out. A couple of his editors for hiring party stripper for bud. Mullah's birthday party and you know it's funny man. I'm kidding cute out by allen brady. This is just the coolest thing because carl never mentioned it again. I mean it was completely forgot it was. It was never a thing when this newspaper article hits the phone rings the cutting room and it's bud mullen and he has read it and he asked us to give it a message to carl. Which is you. Tell carl to mind his own fucking business. It is a one hundred percent true story. Carl loved musical gags. Phil can you give us an example towards the end of the movie and things were coming to ahead and it was a scene kind of borrowed from chinatown Shenyang i was slapping armand. No he's slapping her. I was going to leave that out. Well that's true. Yes in which is she and he would slap shenyang said she's my sister another slip. She's your wife another slip wife dummy my sister wife. She's my sister and then and then she started slapping him. You're gonna now. They're just talking. There's dialogue and there's all this dramatic music. You know interweaving in their dialogue and sean young kind of strolls over to where her stereo system is and she pushes a button to change the score like you would change on a radio station. Doing the boys gym teacher. He was older. The chew smelled like dirty sweat socks. Basketball's well there was another scene towards the end of the movie where the camera had a tracking shot right behind armand as he's running towards the house across the lawn trees and everything else and the cameras right behind him. I wrote something case. It was again overly dramatic in your psycho share and all of a sudden. The camera kit tree in armand does a take where he turns around and looks at the camera. Like what are you doing towards the end of the movie. There's a scene where armand asante is running around the house opening up closet looking for somebody now. The sexy sax theme is being played on trumpet and opens the door to a closet. And there's doc severinsen continuing play the theme on trumpet. I'm sitting in for clarence. He had a gig in washington. And do you remember. It's when we do in the sessions At one point. Mel brooks dropped by on a ten and so many of the guys who knew mel crowded into the control room that we had to call another ten off a yeah. I remember. we couldn't get work done because everybody was laughing so hard. Carl and mel started doing their stick together. And and this was like. Oh my gosh. I and it was. It was really one of the moments that sticks out for me always been interested in the origin of words. For instance a simple word like cheese whether that is a lovely story how. We get devoid vernacular indian twenty eight dash. There was an old farm and he Gentleman came to his land and said i'm so thirsty. May i have a little dipper milk. And he says certainly go over to the barrel he not knowing that the barrel of milk had soured say so. This poor beggar man came into barrel and opened up from the top and looked in. Look down eventually work now. I came into the industrial truth. Yes sir we don't do that anymore. Now win be shaped to negotiate g. You don't just those. Were good old days. When you recorded the orchestra live to three strike mag pups that are listening to this now. That don't understand what we're talking about. One thing screws up. You can't go back and fix that. Flew part or redo the piano. It's all there and it's live mix. What you hear is what was recorded. As it was recorded there is absolutely no going back and remixing changing anything. I remember on the first day asked arm and arm and steiner. The legendary curmudgeon engineer. Well armand is gonna sound good and he says it was written right so feel. Let's talk about the writing process back then. A great teacher taught me never compose at your instrument. Because you'll only right as well as you can play. It is absolutely true that the best composing happens far from any piano or guitar. The mind is the most powerful musical instrument similar to how directors sometimes toy with the emotions of an actor composers and conductors. Play mine tricks on players at times. The father of cartoon music himself. Mr carl stalling. It's an interesting techniques for provoking musical emotion. Carl stalling wrote a lot of sixteenth notes. And thirty seconds. He scored all the classic warner brothers cartoons bugs bunny wile e. coyote in the roadrunner sylvester and tweety porky pig. He set the absolute standard for all animated music. In film and television scoring a click. Track is basically a metronome. That's fed to the players via their headphones. So they all play together to make it easier for the orchestra. Dick pic ticket. You want those you know pops every quarter note right dick will carl stalling would give them a half note. Click track so instead of good to get the it would be the was harder to me as a player. I would not as a player. Its totally harder. Yeah and someone said. Why are you doing that. Wouldn't it be easier to put a click on each quarter note beats. Yeah and he said it makes the orchestra panic So when they're playing that run up to where whatever the cartoon character is about ready to fall off the cliff. They're on edge to there's panic in that line because they're not sure if they're gonna make it in time. Fatal instinct was the first. And only time. I was honored to compose carl. Reiner it was also one of the very last scores. I compose without using any sort of computer as an aide it was performed by a live orchestra all playing together and recorded without parole tools or any other computer program samplers which are basically computers that spit out notes originally performed one not two time. By real instruments were still in their relative infancy. Nowadays samplers have become much more sophisticated able to imitate live players to a certain degree. As long as the keyboardist slash programmer has a certain level of skill and equipment. But still at best. It is an imitation wood. Veneer not hardwood food created in a lab up grown in nature. Here's the difference between sampled words in a real orator. Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. Carl was the real deal one of the last of his breed. He'd died this last summer at the ripe old age of ninety eight when we were wrapping up fatal instinct. I went to lunch with carl at an outdoor cafe. What a fantastic pleasure to dine alone with such a legend and share stories over sandwiches. I asked him what am i. Real had drawn him to hire me. I was curious which piece of music and intrigued him. So that i would be sure to include it. On future reels for other directors. He looked straight at me. Oh no i didn't like you real at all. I hire you. Because i liked you. Rest in peace. Mr reiner you were an always will be the greatest of all time by invisible artists produced at recording in california for those of you to recognize my voice. You're right mel brooks.

carl carl reiner dick van richard craft Carl dick van dyke richard gibbs fatal instinct two thousand year Alan brady Dyke Dyke rose marie morey Larry matthew mary tyler moore bernard hermann alex north sean young clarence clemens Reiner armand Mel brooks
Citizen Kane (1941) Ep. 43 w/ special guest Ted Walch

Classic Movie Musts

1:31:52 hr | 2 years ago

Citizen Kane (1941) Ep. 43 w/ special guest Ted Walch

"I'm max Baril. And this is classic movie musts where every week we breakdown a classic movie while looking to provide artistic insight and historical context at the very least. We'll talk about what makes these movies classics. Classic movie must releases every Friday ready to complement your weekend movie, viewing plans classic movie must is supported by listeners. Like you. If you want to help support the show, I thank you so much and second head on over to patriot dot com slash classic movie. Musts every patriots subscriber cool perks and ways to engage with the show, including the opportunity to vote every month on a movie they'd like to hear discussed on the show. All it takes is one dollar per month. A huge thank you to our current patriots. Subscribers? You make this show possible. You can read about all our support. Here's and the rewards over at patriot dot com slash classic movie. Musts thank you for joining me this week as we discussed the Orson Welles. Masterpiece. Citizen Kane in this episode during our feature presentation, we welcome back, Ted Walsh to discuss the myriad thing. Citizen. Kane does so well, but first let's get into this week's opening credits. Our film this week is citizen Kane, which was directed by Orson Welles and was released in nineteen forty one citizen. Kane stars Orson Welles and features just have cotton Dorothy common. Gore Agnes Moorehead Everett Sloane for your streaming ease citizen. Kane is available for rental on tunes YouTube and Google play in a mansion called xanadu avast palatial estate in Florida the elderly Charles foster Kane, played by Orson Welles is on his deathbed holding snow globe. He utters a word Rosebud. And then dies the globe slips from his hand and smashes on the floor. A newsreel obituary tells the life story of Cain and enormously wealthy newspaper publisher Kane's death becomes sensational. News around the world, and the newsreels producer tasks reporter, Jerry Thompson with discovering the meaning of Rosebud Thomson. Sets out to interview canes, friends and associates he tries to approach Susan Alexander. Kane played by Dorothy coming gore now an alcoholic who runs her own nightclub. But she refuses to talk to him. Thompson goes to the private archive of the late banker. Walter parks Thatcher, pay by George Columbus. And through Thatcher's written memoirs Thompson learns that Kane's childhood began in poverty in Colorado in eighteen seventy one after a silver mine is discovered on her property canes, mother Mary Kane, played by Agnes Moorehead sends Charles away to live with Thatcher. So it he would be properly educated. It's also clear that cane's mother wants to get Charles away from his father who has violent tendencies while Thatcher. And Charles parents discuss arrangements inside the young Charles plays happily with a sled in the snow outside his parent's boardinghouse and protests being sent to live with Thatcher furious at the prospect of exile from his own. Family to live with a man. He does not know the boy strikes that shirt with his sled and attempts to run away years later after gaining full control over his trust fund at the age of twenty five Cain enters the newspaper business and embarks on a career of yellow journalism. He takes control of the New York Enquirer and starts publishing scandalous articles that attack Thatcher's business interests after the stock market crash in nineteen twenty nine Kane is forced to sell controlling interest of his newspaper empire back to fatter back. In the present. Thompson interviews Kane's personal business manager Mr. Bernstein played by Everett Sloane Bernstein recalls. How Cain hired the best journalists available to build the Enquirer's circulation. Cain rose to power by successfully. Manipulating public opinion regarding the Spanish American war and by marrying. Emily norton. The niece of the president of the United States, Thomson interviews Kane's. Strange best friend Jedidiah Leland. By Joseph Cotten in a retirement home. Leland recalls, how canes marriage to Emily disintegrates more and more over the years, and that he began an affair with amateur singer Susan Alexander while he is running for governor of New York, both his wife and his political opponent. Discover the affair and the public scandal ends his pulled a career Leland asked to be transferred to a newspaper in Chicago. Kane Mary Susan and forces her into a humiliating operatic career for which he has neither the talent. And the MVP even building large opera house for her. Leland begins to write a negative review of Susan's opera debut. Cain. Fires him but finishes the negative review. And prince it back in the present Susan now consent to an interview with Thomson and recalls her failed opera career Cain finally allows her to abandon her singing career after she attempts suicide and after years spent dominated by Kane and living in isolation at xanadu, Susan leaves Kane Kane's Butler. Raymond recounts at after Susan leaves him. Cain begins. Violently destroying the contents of her bedroom. He suddenly calms down when he sees a snow globe and says Rosebud Thompson concludes that he is unable to solve the mystery and the meaning of Kane's last word will forever remain 'nigma back xanadu canes belongings are being catalogued or discarded by the staff, they find the sled on which the eight year old Cain was playing on the day that he was taken from his home in Colorado deeming it junk they throw it into the furnace as the sled burns. The camera reveals its trade name ignored by the staff Rosebud citizen. Kane had a budget of eight hundred and forty thousand dollars and a box office hall alternately of one point six million. But that was only after a rerelease years later adjusted for inflation. It's a budget of fourteen million dollars in a box office hall of around twenty seven million citizen Kane received nine Oscar nominations winning only one. It won the Academy Award for best original screenplay share between Herman may quits and Orson Welles. It was also nominated for best sound recording best music best, film editing. Best cinematography best art direction. Best actor for sin. Wells best director for Orson Welles and best picture, and of course citizen. Kane is currently ranked number one on AFI's one hundred greatest movies of all time. Now, let's talk Rosebud because it's time for our feature presentation. Joining us for today's feature. Presentation is Ted Walsh, you know, him from two previous episodes one on the kid one on CASA Blanca, two of my favorite episodes. Ted welcome back to the show. It's an honor. It's great to be back. Max, this is this is the big one we're talking citizen Kane today, and I feel like you're the only person who could really sit opposite me here to break it all down. Thank you for that. Although I approach it with so much humility. That every time I get near this movie. I'm ashamed that I can't do better by I'll give it my best shot though. I appreciate that humility because I, you know, this'll be episode forty three forty four of classic movie musts, and I feel like it's taken me forty some odd episodes to build up the courage to take on this movie as you say not because this movie is perfect or any by any means. We'll talk about the aura that surrounds this movie, but just because of the expectations that kind of come along with it. And and I'm glad I'm glad to have you as my company and those expectations are intimidating when I teach it to high school kids, and I understand you just taught this like a week. I did I just tell her go to eighty five kids. Okay. And the I ha I feel compelled to announce at the beginning. This movie is considered to be the greatest movie of all time. It's in a fight with vertigo, which we're gonna get to later in. The course yada yada, yada. And all of them after it's over go. Well, how is that the greatest movie of all time? Now, I liked it. Or I didn't like it. But how is it the greatest movie? And then we try to we try to get inside it and talk about how it came to be known that way is the greatest movie of all time. That's an absurd statement of Accu any movie we shouldn't be talking that way. No. And I think if we can just say citizen Kane is just another movie. Let's talk about it that way, I feel that after the conversation its greatness will emerge on its own very well put and I'm glad you kind of start that way off the bat. Now, this was unplanned. But right before we started recording. You hit me with a kind of a metaphor for this movie. And I had planned hit you with a metaphor, yours is maybe perhaps a little bit more apropos, but I'm gonna start with mind, you're going to share yours. I think of this movie as a labyrinth with no center, I think that's perfect. I think that is a beautiful way to describe this movie. I look on his as a jigsaw puzzle with some missing pieces. Okay. I like it. I think we've said the same where essentially saying the same thing. Right. Exact excellent. So we're on the same page. Yes. We are. We can we can end the episode now, that's it done. And I want to add one thing to this that I hope can over a not override, but be and everybody's mind as we talk about this movie. And that is to remember that Orson Welles came to this movie at age twenty four having never made a movie a having worked extensively in theatre be and extensively in radio drama. See those two skills the skills that he learned in theater, and in radio really make this film much more than the visual masterpiece that it always gets talked about being one experiment. I do with an audience is you can't understand. And ninety five percent of citizen. Kane the story with your eyes shut. And the only thing you're not going to understand with your eyes. Shut is the secret of Rosebud. Everything else is handed to you on a silver platter? Just like in radio drama. So I just want us to keep that in mind as we talk. Yes, I'm glad you. I'm glad you said that off the back because I think as episodes go, we will certainly be turning to the sound the music, the whole sound design landscape quite a bit in this movie. And since you talked about Rosebud right off the bat. I wanted to bring that up as I'm sure it will also come up everything we talk about today is going to resurface throughout the episode. So are we allowed to do? We have to do a spoiler alert about rose butter. We're gonna talk about it know, it'll have already been spoiled in our opening credits. You seem Lucy's said to Charlie Brown and the famous four strip peanuts episode. She just walked up to Rosebud sled. I mean, and we all know that person. Exactly. So you're fully expected to know to seen the movie so Rosebud in my labyrinth metaphor. I think it's kind of beautifully frustrating throughout this movie. Which is right off the bat. We're we're stimulated with this mystery. What is Rosebud? And it's it's alternately what makes this movie so great watching it. And what kind of stimulates the conversation around it as you already alluded to with your own students because throughout this movie. You can't help it ask what is Rosebud or who is Rosebud who is Charles foster Kane, and then because of the place that this movie holds in the film canon of history is this the greatest movie of all time is just an extremely important movie. And what makes it an import such an important movie? Or what makes it the greatest movie of all time? He's already said, we don't particularly believe that it can be the greatest that's not. That's not really the terminology one should apply to art. But it's that aura of mystery and frustration and ultimately, given the fact that we find out that Rosebud is. The sled at the end. We hope that there is equally a simple answer to who. Is Charles foster Kane. Yes, this is the greatest movie of all time, and it is because Orson Welles is a complete genius. Well, and here's here's the beauty for me. They they seduce you at the very big he'S. you at the very beginning of the movie thinking that if we can find out the answer to Rosebud, we will have solved the mystery. But as you say this is a labyrinth with no center because even when we do find out the answer to Rosebud. It does not explain everything. It only explains something maybe it explains nothing. It's just there. So we have been taken in a sense on a ride, but it's been a fascinating ride, and to me, the most valuable lesson that this film offers to any of us is that we can never really know each other. We can never really know about another human being we can never. Really understand who you are. You will always be a mystery to others and to yourself. That's to me is the beauty of this movie. We're waxing very poetic here. Sorry any. No. It's it's great. I like very well. It was very well put as you say from the very beginning. We are taking on this ride of what is Rosebud, and I would say, and I'm sure you'd probably agree with me that it starts even before that. And so let's kind of begin at the beginning. All right. Very good place to start and thank you. Sorry. But to me that you know, how by the way what you just said pertains to citizen Kane who was the editor Robert wise wasn't he direct there you go onto music. Okay. Sorry, it's all working on a subliminal level here. Perhaps. It's all very Freudian. I think our sin wells describes his cane as dollar book throwed. But and he said that's how I understand Freud. And so it comes through something. I'm sure we'll also come back to all though. I detest conversations about like, oh, it's all very Freudian. It makes things credibly inaccessible. And we want this movie to be acceptable. So we're going to begin at the beginning. We're going to begin at the beginning. I love the opening sequence it's often talked about. But the fact that the film opens with this no trespassing sign, and then what do we end? Then proceeds to climb over the sign it sets up the audience immediately from the beginning to be detective like right? We climb one fence then we climb another. Then we climb a gate, then we're fixated on a window, which is in the upper right hand corner, the frame, which we can't take our eyes off of and then because we're burglars and trespassers we go through the window, and as far as we can tell we are the only one. Ones who hear Rosebud now the Butler at the end claims he heard it, but we didn't see him there that to me is one of the great in 'nigma Zain this film. I feel that it's purposefully in ag- Matic unexplained. But they're so I totally agree. And even before we know before we have a sense that Rosebud may hold a secret to this moustachioed face that we don't yet know even before that as you say we've climb these fences, and then we proceed through the grounds of xanadu, which we don't quite yet. No to xanadu, right? And we see monkeys. We see tropical settings. We see Venetian boats were already trying to put together the mystery of what this place could be who could possibly own it. How does this all make sense? And then Rosebud is just the final element. That says. Okay. This is what this is the key to potentially. Unlocking all of this. Right. And that's the journey. We're going to go on. But it's it's a brilliant opening to get you already in the mindset of the detective and also there's a little sleight of hand going on in a way because a couple of my students got confused. I'm always interested because they're good audience. And that is we think may be the snow globe is Rosebud. But we find out later that the snow globe is not Rosebud, but evokes Rosebud. I also also like Juno. I don't mean to put you on the spot. Do you know where after we see the snow globe in that opening scene? We next see the snow globe in the chronology of the storytelling. So to my knowledge in the snow globe was something I was planning on bringing up on more than one occasion. But is on the vanity desk of Susan Alexander. You win. That's why you were a good student in and that was doing that night. So all right. Let's fast forward. This is not a particularly chronological film. So I feel no pressure to approach it chronologically here here. I so the snow globe. Let's get into it right away. All right. The very night that he meets Susan Alexander. And in his peripheral vision, and in ours sees the snow globe on her vanity table is the night that he is going to a warehouse where all the belongings from his mother's boarding house. The belongings that he has societas with his youth are stored. He's there to check them out. So somehow in his mind that night, if only subconsciously that snow globe intersex with Rosebud because Rosebud had to be on his mind, the ninety it was going to look for the things in his mother's warehouse and their Susan. So that wonderful intersection of Susan snow globe Rosebud and all that that entails. All so that when he picks it up at the end of the movie out of her childlike room room. We start to go, particularly the second time, we go through the movie, we have that moment. And I think all great films need to be seen more than once. This one needs to be seen many many times for all those jigsaw pieces to start to fit together or not I agree. One hundred percent. This is very much a movie that it begs to be rewatch It's almost essential to be rewatch because there are so many. Layers incongruency ease clues. I mean, we talk about this snow globe on her desk in her apartment. It's not that there's a close up of it by any means. It's quite easy, and quite understandable that you would go potentially many viewings of this movie without ever noticing it whatsoever. Because while he while Charles foster Kane sees it he draws particular attention to it. We don't even know if he really consciously sees it to the or if it's just a sub-conscious presence. And as you say, we know then his mindset of the moment is one of memory. And there's no question that this snow globe is very much associated with his memory of his childhood in the traumatic. Breaking his relationship with his mother being taken away, by Thatcher and feeling abandoned by his mother, which is clearly if there's one takeaway in this movie, it is that is the largest driving influence on his personality is his relationship with his mother even in that scene as you say he was planning on going through his mother's belongings. He associate he begins to associate Susan Alexander with his mother, we have the snow globe. It reminds him of his childhood home. She has several lines to the effect of you know, how mothers are this. It's understandable the attachment. He then develops with her and then the desire to control that relationship in a way that he wasn't able to control his relationship with his mother. And I also like to say that his second mother after he leaves his mother is a Bank one hundred percent Bank. And that's not much of a mother. No, no, it is not very reliable. At that. As he says. But I think the the snow globe is it's it's kind of this ingrained importance that I think even extends beyond the object itself. Right. I mean without going into the Freudian aspects of it, but the connections between things and being able to evoke memories of things things themselves are incredibly important in this movie. We we hope by interrogating various people we will get the answer to who Charles foster Kane is, but really we we need to look more to his possessions things to understand who this man is. And and the thing that he holds onto in memory, and I could actually suggest that it is a memory that is largely reconstructed every time he thinks about it as we know that memory works. But in any event, the one thing that he holds onto is the least impressive. Piece of stuff a little wooden sled in the midst of all of those statues art, and you name it that that that that wonderful shot at the end of the movie, it looks like a city of stuff. Yeah. It's just a sled and what happens to the sled. It goes up in smoke. There you go. Anyway, it before long before it gets put up in smoke. It is quite aptly buried in snow. Yes. Frozen away. Yes, preserved as though in a snow globe for the moment to kind of come back to the surface beautifully. Put. And it's that connection between you know. I think props Meson, San it all works together with this film on a film level. So deeply that I wonder if you would agree with me that we go and meet Susan Alexander to hear her tale of the store of Charles foster. Kane twice we go there right at the beginning, you won't talk. He won't talk. We then return. Both times of which we go. We had this beautiful shot of the Rancho signing and that we then ascend through and then through the skylight, right? Like, we're doing a second story job here. We've gone we've fence we've gone through a window. Now, we're doing a second story job, but we descend through this skylight much like Charles foster. Kane looks into the snow globe at his own memories. Exactly in hope of finding the memory that will unlock this whole, jigsaw puzzle. There's no other reason to have Susan at the beginning of the movie only to not use her. And then have her later almost book ending the memories that that has to tell us something about the way this journey is being undertaken. Indeed, I think that it brings up the very structure of the film, which is, you know, this this movie is approached in many ways like a classical Hollywood bio pic exact who is Charles foster. Kane let's tell the life story of this. Great, man. And and we're forced particularly an audience today who has many of whom have never experienced an old fashioned newsreel, the kind that I grew up with thirteen minutes of a newsreel about somebody. You don't know anything about right? And the newsreel is designed purposely to suggest that you do know something about him. It actually it gives you not all that much information. The most important piece of information that he gives you is how the fortune came to be in defaulting border. But it really just kind of goes past you, you could even miss it. It's it's stunning that it trust you as an audience to go almost twenty minutes into the film giving the opening shot, and then the newsreel before we get down to business, right? But somehow it holds our attention to notice the sound Zayn that the newsreel is the sound is jacked up for the news. Real so. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So you're if you go have the sort of Lulling opening, and then bam news of the world news up when that news on the March comes up. Thank you. It's so it's it's shocking. I'm the cockatoo much later in the film is also an excellent point seven by student said in case you fell asleep. I like that. You gotta wake up I fell asleep in this movie. Anyway, let no judgment judgment. You know, maybe it was a long day or early in the morning, exactly. So we come in with this bio pic approach, the news on the March kind of help set that up that this is a great figure. He lived a long storied life. And we need to help. We want to understand more about who he is. Because unlike the movies in the movie, assumes we understand who he is because it opens with xanadu landlord, not even by name. So it already assumes, you know, what xanadu is and who his landlord who landlord is let's get into it. Now, we are all the more peaked of all right? Well, let's I need to know more. And that's the story. This movie is going to take you on and like a bio pic. It's not unheard of to say. Well, all right. Let's go to the people that this famous. Person new best to understand this story. As I mentioned earlier, we expect these people to paint this picture that fills in all the gaps. That has all the puzzle pieces that you mentioned, and they don't they just don't know. They have glimpses. They have elements of the story that seem to be at odds with each other. They tell you about pieces that they wouldn't actually therefore so how do they really know they're filling in their own gaps and only one of them is an entirely sympathetic appealing person. And that's Mr. Bernstein, at least in my humble opinion. I want to talk about that. Yeah. We'll talk about all these the side characters. So you're also asked to relate to somebody who's not particularly sympathetic, and as you very wisely point out in news on the March, you have to wait about five minutes into that newsreel before you even get the name of who the heck they're talking about. So you go what is going on here? Yeah. I'm being toyed with your actually. And what what makes it so interesting as well is how much information they give you about the trajectory of this movie right up front. I mean, we want to know who's Charles foster. Kane is were assumed we are a Hollywood audience. We live in the world of heroes and villains is Charles foster Kane hero, or is he a villain and right there in that opening segment you have one person saying, he's a communist one person saying he's a fascist and him saying, I'm an American light. And that's exactly what this movie is. We want to think of him either. Just give us some clarity is a hero whose misunderstood is. He a villain who did horrible things. Neither he's a person. He's a complicated man who doesn't even fully understand himself who these people closest to him don't fully understand. He's just a person. And each of the people who talks about him can only. Talk about him from their point of view as right in life. This this is why I think this movie holds up so beautifully. We are all familiar with this how well am I'm repeating myself. But how well can we get to know another human being and the answer is even when we get a lot of information a lot of stuff, and I do mean stuff both literally and figuratively. We do not know who you are. Exactly. Right. So shall we go, I guess maybe segment by segment here? Let's start then with Mr. Thatcher. Oh, yes. And which I think is also a fascinating. We I think in part of the reason why we go to Susan Alexander. I only to learn nothing is to create a juxtaposition between her and her situation and hurry -ality here. And then Mr. factor as we go into this one reason lines, libraries and is completely human sized. Whereas Thatcher is is. There's nothing. There's almost nothing humid about and you go to this almost mazal Liam pleading the library. And they're the radio drama comes in the minute. You hear the sound of that place? It's just all hollow an echo with these two almost end drudge in his creatures who run it and nobody in the library. It's it's walled off in every possible way. You is not a place you want to be you are confined, you can only look at these pages of his notebook. That's that's it. And you're going to be wadded here for thirty by spies. It's just it's crazy. And then you go into what is the most talked about an possibly the most remarkable piece of the whole movie, and that is be to his childhood, right? Which of course, sets up everything, and I'd like to point out just keeping my snow globe metaphor live again, a key a key sunlight in that room. As well. Despite it being a Muslim like place descending. As though it can be looked in through like, a snow globe to this, man. Beautiful way to think about this. This is just occurring to me. And so it's this isn't fully fleshed out. But. As we learned in this segment, the tension that exists between Thatcher and Charles foster Kane where Charles foster Kane that he so eloquently puts it as the stakeholder in the public transit system that owns eighty six thousand four hundred twenty shares is very angry and Bob, blah. But as the publisher of the inquirer, he he has these two sides of him where he is a man of the people that were he thinks of himself as a man of the people, but he's also the six wealthiest person in the world. There's this tension, and I think right off the bat, you you learn obviously, it's kind of juxtaposed with Thatcher. Who is the banker who is extremely wealthy. But has none of those liberal feelings that that works in wells has it's set up right there in the same way that we've just come from xanadu, which is also a mausoleum of staggering proportions, but it's filled with all the stuff in the eccentric cities. And now, we moved to this man's mausoleum. Which? Has nothing. It's completely austere. It shows. There's that connection between these two men where they're both exceptionally wealthy. They're both exceptionally powerful. But there's a difference. There's a key difference here. Then we part of it going back to of course, his childhood. And I'd rather have lunch with Charles foster Kane than with mister Thatcher. I although I would most like to have lunch with Mr. Bernstein. But that's a whole other. We'll wait for we'll get a Mr. Bernstein short enough. So then we go back to this log cabin which we then learn, of course, at the end is kind of the crux of this particular telling of the story, and we have where now we start to get into the Arctic excellence of this movie where you have this long take and depth of field and layering of sound design. That is gorgeous it is gorgeous. And it is why I think Greg Toland shares a title card with or some wells at the end of the movie. I know Orson Welles had a giant ego. But he didn't have so large an ego that he didn't know that this movie would not have been possible without Greg Tolan because it seems like almost on a daily basis. Greg toll in the cinematographer is asked by this twenty four year old Tiro, I need this. And Greg Tolan's go on you need what? Well, okay, I'll try to make that happen. And he makes so many beautiful visual moments happen. And he does the same thing with Bernard Hermann, the remarkable composer who again was early in his career who creates music and a sound feel for this film. Add to that Wells' experience with radio, and you get all of the magic that happens in what I do feel is one of the greatest moments in film as the parents are negotiating what's going to happen to the kid. The kid is playing in a window a game with him. So. Self. He's a lonely kid, but he's a happy kid reasonably and saying things they union forever. You can't lick MD Jackson, and and disappearing from the window and then popping back up and the window and then occasionally apparent will obscure the window, particularly as the negotiation is being completed. And then we also begin to understand that the father is really not much of a father is an abusive father. But that comes a little bit later. But we understand that the father is willing quite quickly to give up the kid for money. Right. Yeah. He comes off as you sympathize with him as a father until that moment of you'll be paid fifteen thousand dollars a year. And then well, I guess, you know, probably best for the child, and you're like, okay, now, we get a sense of who you are. And then the ultimate payoff. Is you say that you know, he thinks that this kid needs a good thrashing and. Mary Mary Kane. That's exactly why we're sending him away and credit to Agnes Moorehead is performance as this mother who comes off. So. So harsh and then to realize that she is doing this unspeakably painful thing entirely for the good of her son or what she believes to be good for sun here here. And it's, you know, it's a wrenching gut wrenching heart-wrenching moment to say that she's doing this for Persia RV'er responsible. Not responsible incomplete. If we don't point out the fun little detail as the camera is clearly pulling back to keep the depth of field and the kid in the window. If you listen carefully, you can hear the camera movie. And then you see the top hat on the table wobbling just a bit because they had to negotiate they had to move furniture about in order to get the camera through. Yeah. I love that. But only notice it if it's called to your attention. You don't notice it otherwise? But it's I love that that you can see fingerprints on a movie that that it has. It has some reality to. When we talked about CASA Blanca the same thing. How cheesy some of the scenery was, but we don't care, right? And we don't care that we notice these little things. Exactly, very well. Put thank it's it is the first I think of peace to resist moment of the film of saying, you know, this is this is what we're doing on an artistic level. I mean, I love also I mean, we'll talk you've already brought up the sound the music the score of this film, carry such power it conveys as you talk about the entire trajectory of the movie on just on the sound design alone. We are introduced to the music that that Charles foster Kane is associated with in his childhood and specifically with his mother and his sled which really only resurfaces in the movie in variations on the theme when he meets Susanto exander. And then of course, the burning of his his sled at the end. This is the music associate. With that side of him that emotional connection to his childhood, and is contrasted because it is far more subtle with the other key piece of music, which is the music associated with his rise to power which characterizes much of the first half of the movie, basically, just four notes, but it's like the power theme and Herman. Understands the power of the motif in writing film score and then with striking originality. I'm not much. I'm not enough of an authority to talk about how clever it is. But his instrumentation is so different than what people were accustomed to in films at the time. It's a leaner instrumentation it's surprising instruments like a best soon a taking the lead. And and that makes it all the richer. And this is another reason why love to shut my eyes when I watched this movie and just wallow in the score. Right. I I'm great Herman fan. And I think your audience knows Herman went onto become Hitchcock's composer of choice, and give us some of the greatest film music that we know I happen to believe however Cam that's going to say this. I think the greatest film score ever written is Bernard Hermann score for citizen Kane. So. I've said it there it is there you have it. Okay. All right. And guess what? Tony the two films that are vying for number one on the list share in common Bernard Hermann, he wrote the music for vertigo. He wrote the music for citizen. Kane maybe Bernard Hermann has much to do with the two great films. As all the other folks who worked on them as I mean, it's a total aside and one that, but I am a fundamental believer. That music carries such weight with film, and that so many of the amazing films that we love that have such great places. Aren't our heart are entirely, I mean, largely there because of the music off script for just one Johnny Greenwood Jonny Greenwood there will be blood phantom thread, this this guy is going to be the next Bernard Hermann that you heard it here hurt it here. I think we only talk about the old movies. Keeping you on your toes hot up here. So okay. So let's progress we're out of the cabin. And it's one of those things that, you know, as we say is the movie that begs to be rewatch d-, and it's certainly not to be rewatch because you now know what Rosebud is and you realize that this movie has nothing to do with Rosebud in the end of it is relevant. What Rosebud really is. But you go back, and you re watch it, and you say from the beginning how many clues there are two that it's rose about. I mean, the number of just extremely distinct lines of dialogue that is probably something completely little and unimportant. And maybe it's a thing he lost, and he leaves the cabin and the very next seen. He's getting a sled for Christmas that he hates. And if you go back to the newsreel one of the first spoken lines you here in the newsreel as Thatcher in the committee investigation responding question about being hit by a sled. Yes. But you didn't know, right. You didn't know? And so you appreciate that on. Later viewings. How many clues there are along the way and that's enjoyable and its own right? But we we progress out of the and we get a fairly, you know. We get a fairly strong Scher Jek -tory of citizens life of citizen, Charles foster, Kane's life. Because your was there for for much of it that he kind of ultimately bails him out at the end. Yes. But you realize other than that beginning we get very little insight into Charles foster Kane beyond his antagonism of Thatcher, which is important. Don't get me wrong and the bluster that he brings of hoping to bring down Thatcher and everything he stands for and wanting to be everything he hates is a powerful moment. But where we have not probed far beyond the surface. And I I think you're really onto something when you talk about the the juxtaposition of Thatcher world and Charles foster Kane's childhood world that those those two things being together in this sequence. Tell us something about the power of money and the power of memory and the innocence of childhood and the happiness that that this man never can get back. There is one shot during the Thatcher sequence that I think I don't know if it's important, but it's useful to the viewer. And that is when you see all of the narrators together, with the exception of Susan, and the exception of the Butler in a shot, you see jed UC, Bernstein, UC Cain, and you see Thatcher. They are all in one shot, and you go, okay. Those are going to be my storytellers now again, you don't really know that till the second time through. But there they are right. This is the cast of characters. Thank you very much. That's an interesting point. You're one hundred percent, correct. And you take away the beginning is exactly Thatcher's. Takeaway. Right. He understands the rise. And the fall of Cain based on his business doings as as as a newspaper publisher, and that ultimately he had to bail him out. And that's his takeaway. Right. We don't we don't get any real emotional insight other than what we read into as empathetic human beings of. This was a traumatic start to this kid's life, right and Thatcher. Never liked Cain. Thatcher. Never believed in anything. Cain was setting out to do. And that's the end of that story. Thatcher is just simply not nice guy. I almost disagree. I think Thatcher cares for Kane. I think it's not that he he's disappointed in the in the in the man's choices. But to me he is a he is he's obviously a far. Figure by force. But he's he's a father who doesn't know how to show emotion. But he cares. He never disassociates himself from Kane. If he really didn't like him. You know, I feel like Cain would have turned twenty five and it would have been. I'll see you never again that's fair enough. Max I and there's this elements. You know, I think the scene which is you know, there's a humor to it. When he's writing the letter to Kane who's often Europe somewhere. I don't think you understand the importance of this situation that you have the six largest fortune in the world, and this and that and the other and therefore I'm enclosing a list of your holding. So that you understand. I mean, it's just those are the terms in which this man knows how to show affection, quote, unquote. I have a member of my family that the only way he really knows how to show affection is through how you look at the money and the stuff of life, and it doesn't mean that. They're bad person. It's just the currency with which they work, right? And to me, I think it's it's two scenes in particular that show that he, and I think it goes both ways which is also fascinating that as much as Kane kind of likes to make it seem. He hates and everything he stands for. There's an affection of these two men just on having spent so much time together, and it's the scene in the newspaper when Cain re shows you he's not an idiot. He understands exactly what he is holding our. But that he is going to pursue this life. He wants to pursue. And there is this. I mean, it's a hugely confrontational scene of this of him saying, I'm going to publish these stories bringing everything you stand for down. But they leave on a note of what we can put that behind like we understand that. There's this tension that's irreconcilable between us, but we still have a connection and I'll add to that. Because I think you're onto something that. The the spatial world that Cain ultimately lives in defined by xanadu is a spacial world that borrows its out size nece from the world of Thatcher. Because if you look in Thatcher's world, both the library and his office with this wainscoting that is as high as a human head. That's where that's where Cain gets the way. He he thinks about space and that if you're rich you need to have a big fireplace. Right. You need to have high wainscoting you need to whatever that's an excellent point. I think I think you're absolutely right. That Thatcher would approve of all the places that other than maybe the office of the newspaper of how Charles foster. Kane has appointed his lifestyle. At this point one of the things that gets talked about citizen. Kane so often is ceilings because we get to see ceilings, whereas that would not be usual and films at the time because they liked to lower equipment through a non-existent ceiling on a sound stage. But the world of Thatcher's Thatcher ceilings are almost out of sight. And when when the when the movie gets human sized the ceilings lower and particularly after Kane is defeated in lection. The ceiling is almost oppressive. I do think the spatial design everything about this film, the spatial design. The audio design the musical design. I could go on and on and on the camera design is so completely thought through without ever calling too much attention to it self and there's a meticulousness. That's graceful. And that's what I love about it. Well, put you mentioned the ceilings reminds me Orson Welles is reported to have watched stagecoach. Yes. Forty times one of his favorite movies who's blown away in large part of the spatial design. The John Ford did. Stagecoach movie. I think we talked about episode four of classic movie must've checked it out check it out. But I'm struck particularly of the scene. You're right that once he loses the election, but his I kind of presence in the inquirer that he is this oversized presence in this under sized space guy, and he is just begging to burst out of it or to grow it here to surround him on an appropriate level. It makes me I'm always struck by how much of the ceiling you see. And then thinking of the scene in stagecoach when they're in the in the house where ultimately the woman gives birth. How much of the ceiling you see scrunching on these call because there's no question as you say on the spatial design that he is just begging to burst out of it. And it's something we come back to and something we obviously is tremendously emphasized by Gregg Toland and these. Stark angles from which we view. The newspaper often fewer only remember when he keeps sending stuff back from Europe, this one pathetic little room just gets jammed with crates of stuff most of which never even gets opened. Right. That's the other thing. He he I think we all know hoarders today who will order stuff from Amazon and just loaded in a room and never opened the boxes. Kane is a little like that. He so much of the stuffy Baud, he never uses or enjoys or occupies his world with it. Just stays in box as he says right at the end of fats sequence that he used his money to buy things. And that's if there's ever a clue that really the answer to the answers were looking for as a as a detective audience are in the things and not in the people. But I think that's a good segue to to move onto your man. My man Bernstein who is. I agree with you. I think he's probably the most likeable character in the entire movie. He's he's the only character you understand. He's a total. Yes, man. Oh, yeah. But there's a sympathetic quality to him and one of the things that I think is so important to remember about Mr. Bernstein, particularly in nineteen forty one particularly given that Joseph Mankiewicz, Herman Mankiewicz. The co writers is Jewish is the Bernstein is clearly Jewish character whose Jewishness on one level is stereotyped in the film and another level is commented on in the most sympathetic of ways. And we'll hold off when we get to later sequence talking about that. But when we first meet Mr. Bernstein in a. We hear him tell what I am told is Herman Mankiewicz favourite piece of writing that utilize story about the girl in the white dress in the parasol, and it is it's gorgeous. Then when next we meet him. He's writing on top of carriage almost like a Jewish immigrant peddler with stuff. And then we get some sort of vaudeville shtick when he arrives in the newspaper office all the stuff falling around him. And so we sort of invited into the stereotype, and as you say correctly, the yes man, but when we get to the famous scene when we watch the dissolution of marriage, and we get the anti-semitism from the first MRs Cain when she does not want Mr. Bernstein and his vulgar gift in the child's nursery, all of not commented on directly and all the more powerful. Because it's there that move. Gives me deeply Mr. Bernstein, moves me, deeply, I I love the guy. I've just plain love the guy. And I love the fact that no matter what even though he was a yes, man. I think he really loved Charles foster Kane, the most outsized thing in his office is the photo of fortress over you're. Absolutely, right. I mean, and you you really truly believe this is a man who's proud to sit beneath it absolutely always proud to hold the position he held in association with Kane. And do you notice that he calls everybody by their full name, Mr. Cain, Mr. Leland whatnot? Whereas everybody else gets and he's always called Mr. Bernstein. Right. But the others call each other by first name, Charlie jed, Susan, yada. Yada, yada. All that's coded in the movie in the subtlest and best of ways. I keep saying because it's not underline. Right. Underline your message. Well, then it's just a message. If you don't underline it and you get. Then you get it in your gut. And I think this movie is powerful in that regard. Well, put and in a movie, I mean, obviously, the trajectory of this movie that deals as you say with with the power of memory, the understanding of who human being is the fickle qualities of just being human. There is I mean, it's it's told over the course of this two hour movie. It is so perfectly singly told in that story of the woman with the parasol on the ferry that in just that moment you understand that. That is exactly what being a human is all about that. You could have seen a person for a split second that never even acknowledged you. And that stays with you for the entire rest of your life. Thank and the the unknown ways that it would probably alter the trajectory. You you go and who could ever identify that? If you want to understand who Mr. Bernstein was if this were citizen. Citizen Bernstein whenever and that was you could never trace it back to that woman on the ferry. No, it would be impossible, but it clearly has had this outsized effect and this man size as important and as unimportant as Rosebud. Indeed. So now, we get into the Mr. Bernstein segment, which is really the ultimate takes us through citizen. Kane kind of at his peak, I keep calling him citizen. Kane Charles foster Kane. Citizen. Kane it works. It works. And I like that bringing it back to the music that music, just grows, and grows and grows. The segment, and then of course, climaxes in the scene in which the chronicle inquirer has now out past the chronicle. We have this parade of marching band and dancing girls office trees, just bought all the report the solution was just spend money. There's no particular cleverness other than just buy them. Just like you buy, and then you get the air worm song of all time that that that song they saying to celebrate in the marching band and like early rap almost Patterson, and you can't get it out of your head. And then he's going to use that tune later in the movie to break, our hearts, and some ways there's something there's one moment in that celebration that that. I really want to focus on. And it is if you remember when we saw Charlie in a window that was back when it was a kid, and he was playing with his sled. The next time. We see Charlie in a window. He is reflected in a window as jed and Mr. Bernstein talk about him as he's dancing, and and they're really speculating, do you really that the conversation is about really who is this, man. And how great is he and what is he doing? But you see a reflection of him in the window. And then the cigar smoke from jed almost just eats up the reflection bringing up both for me window and smoke, which I think I think I think it's intentional. But I don't care if it's intentional. It's something that that struck me forcefully. And then also in that same moment if you look at the ice sculpture of jed and. Mr. Bernstein behind jets got his big cigar? And then in another ghastly stereotype, Mr. Bernstein's knows is exaggerated to almost Fagan like length. It's it's it's again and Mankiewicz. I am told by relative of his this was they thought about this. They wanted to both employ the stereotype and then turn it on its head. When we meet MRs Cain talking about him. I like that very interesting. I'm curious to see where that goes now in the Susie section. But you're absolutely right. That scene in which I mean Jedi Lind with his. I wanna keep your declaration of principles. I think that's going to be a very important document. Not unlike the constitution and Bill of rights, and all these things, and then this is the first moment where we start to see him really beginning to question is this man really going to live up. And did you notice that when Cain is reading the de? Lorraine of independent of principles. Thank you when he's reading it. Did you notice that his face is totally unlit? Yes. It is dark just like the reporters face because if you actually listen to the declaration. That's not the kind of journalism that Cain ends up employing. In fact, he's yellow journalist of the most egregious kind the headlines big enough. The news is big enough. You supply the pros, I'll supply the war Q. And yet the declaration of principles is I'll tell only the truth it'll be pure. It'll be simple serve the people. There's a lovely. And then when he gets torn up much later in the film along with a check then that's it doesn't get enough. The check it's torn up and then can't heat. Yes. Came about. I feel like this is a good moment to kind of pause and look at the historical context of this. Because. What I find particularly fascinating about this. I mean citizen Kane was I mean, it's quite overtly in reference to William Randolph Hearst the newspaper magnet. It was quite poorly received by William Randolph Hearst due to to be quite the representation of him as it is clearly to be Orson Welles denied that fact. But that is was undeniably, the context and audience in nineteen forty one would have seen this movie as clearly in reference, it's clearly in reference to the politics of William Randolph Hearst who was an isolationist. Orson Welles was not he was quite the supporter of the new deal and DR. So the I mean this movie is is super overtly political. I think anyone who's has. Understood interesting the same year, we have CASA Blanca CASA Blanca against America. First. Let's get into the war. Let's do our thing and echoing as you say correctly. What the Hearst position was. I just had say one thing, and I'm happy to have this conversation. Isn't it wonderful? However, how beautifully this movie works without any knowledge of William Randolph Hearst? So that's that's exactly the point. I was coming to make which is it's two thousand eighteen I can't imagine. I mean William Randolph. Hearst in many ways is the least relevant is ever been since he existed, not a topic of conversation in the slightest. No, but the echoes of Hearst and fake news. And also something we can mar-a-lago actually makes its way into this movie. If you wanna go there in xanadu in Florida and any event, but but that the political. Things about this movie fascinating as they are. And and and for me, they're the least for me as a student and teacher film. That's the least interesting thing. When I teach this film to kids today. I spent about three minutes on that part of it. I say you can talk about this in your history class if you want to but that's not we're going to talk about here by continuously. I agree with you. And at the same time, I find the intersection of of the history and the arts so fascinating to say that this movie so clearly a response to that or using that it's not it's not that he said, I wanna make a movie about William Randolph Hearst. They had this idea in play and it worked in regards with Hearst and played off of those themes, but at the same time, I mean, it's on last week's episode. We talked about the Manchurian candidate. And I talked about Mark Twain saying, you know, that history doesn't repeat itself, but it certainly rhymes. And as you say, I mean, you know, we're living in this era of of fake news without trying to be. Overtly political? On this show because it's not a political show. But there's no question that citizen. Kane fabricated, the news as he that Charles foster, and the real the real grandchild of William Randolph Hearst is Murdoch that I mean, I don't think anybody would deny that a direct kind of connection as as we look at how news is as you look at its handle. And you almost wonder take it as you will to the extent that had Charles foster. Kane had gotten elected are we living in that reality to a certain extent. I don't think with without question. So this movie's going to continue to hold up on so many levels, and that that level is without question invited. Yes. Donald trump. Charles foster Kane, there are many connections. So it's just it's interesting to think that a movie with such direct political context in one. Era could really almost lose entirely that context and still be fascinating. But can also regain its entire new context in this era, and it can be applicable to to new the new status quo. And it's when are when the people who follow us fifty years from now doing a podcast about citizen. Kane I can't wait to know what they're going to talk about because it's going to hold up. Indeed. All right. So back to Mr. Bernstein's, his his retelling, which is it's told with such care and affection. And I mean, he's such a sympathetic or man comparative to the other stories we hear which are not told with a great deal. You get glimpses of the affection. Yes. But there's so many complicating factors there is almost unqualified affection for Kane in the Bernstein, very well put very well. Put and it carries us through canes height and carries us into his. Decline his downfall. However, you wanna took it take it, and it it gives us what has to be. I mean, there are so many amazing sequences in this film. But another one just like the log cabin is the breakfast sequence two minutes, we watch marriage fall apart in two minutes and visually the thing. I love most about the falling apart of the marriage scene. Is that everyone thinks that it's a bigger table at the end of the scene. It is not in fact, it is the same table, but the angle which shot the way in which they're sitting at a small intimate breakfast table for young lovers who've just got married has turned into a war zone. They no longer talk to each other. They look though, they're miles apart and the music and that scene each piece of music, you begin with a waltz, which is the music of lovers. Then you go through a kind of a different kinds of dances that show you that this is not working. And then at the end, we're just in this kind of almost ominous silence in which they're reading rival newspapers. And and and and then, of course, don't forget the antisemitic moment when she says, you know, your Mr. Bernstein sent the most vulgar, shade news that where Jesus and other where to. Yeah. Heinous maybe she said and simply can't have it in the nursery. And he says, well, Mr. Bernstein's likely visit the nursery, and she says in that withering tone that you always hear that is racist in. It's an it's an it's tone must he. Yeah. And Reno we hear that again. They don't underline it. But it's there, right? And it's Rick the costuming women talked about the the costuming. The set decor. But me her her clothing throughout his tube. But hers, particularly she at the at the beginning is open invulnerable and there and at the end she has just encased in clothing up to her neck hiding behind the rival newspaper. It's awesome. Right. I I teach that seen so much that my kids actually start screaming at me to stop teaching. But you could you could build a whole, film course. No. I mean, it's it's such an Pitta me of showing and not telling which is its own cliche. But I mean, it's all working together. Right. It's the staging of them moving slowly and slowly apart from each other the dialogue, which gets snappier and more pointed and more cutting to the point that you race dialogue completely at the end. And then you bring in these props as you say, it's again, not highlighted. But the fact that she's reading the chronicle. And he's reading his, of course, the Enquirer tells you everything you could possibly need to know about the state of their marriage again to go back to my point. If you only listen to it, you'll still get the whole story. Oh, yes. Even the silence. Even in the silence speaks volumes. It's and it such as you say, it's such a sinked seen to two minutes. There were alterior versions of the script where where Mary Kane did not die. Her son grew up to actually be Nazi and was killed trying to pull off some sort of raid in Washington DC, and we end up learning that she and her son their son killed in a car accident, which necessitates the fact that we're not going to hear the story from her perspective now. And so this breakfast scene is the perfect stand in for their time together and the trajectory, you know, as you say, we learn everything we need to know in two minutes. It's. And then of course, we have the introduction of Susan. We've already gone over kind of because of the snow globe the her importance of her introduction into the script his political downfall, which is quite overt. And now we start to see this man's pride. Really getting in his own way. So can we talk about Susan now? Do we have talk about jed? Well, yeah. Okay. I know we're running. No, no. I don't mind because if there's ever an episode to have long episode listeners would agree. It's this. Well, because you mentioned Susan there's one thing about the beginning of Susan's that this is good at times any to mention to listen to and it goes back to Bernard Hermann. He's playing blues nightclub music on the piano, as we re meet Susan, and as we segue into the beginning of her seen. She's doing the Mozart aria with the piano vocal instructor and the way Herman goes from the blues music right into Mozart without missing a beat is just so just listen to it right time around and you'll love it. But let's go back to jed. 'cause we have to. We can't recant forget jet right now. Because we're we're in. Because that's where the the marriage falls apart. It's also where we hear the most heartbreaking version of the Rosebud theme. Played. I believe I'm almost certain on this Avila. Harmonic -ly. It sounds like a sensitize. But of course, it's not right. Yeah. Anyway. No, I appreciate that. So yes, we get jed story and credit, of course, to this movie and the I mean, just the makeup, right? I mean, the aging technology of these people is so the theater the theater folks, also purse west more of the great west more clan. Who did more make up than anybody? I think in the history of movies. Yeah, I don't know which one purse falls in which iterating of them all purse falls into some maybe we should do some research on that. But anyway, the makeup is amazing. Yes. And there's something I think particularly satisfying in the jed Leland sequence in the fact that he's the he's the character we go the longest until we see him in his old warm while having seen him. Him for much of the movie as a young, man. Correct. We see Susan right off the bat, and we Thatcher right at the beginning. Mr. Bernstein early on as well. There's something about building up to all right now. This is the first time we're seeing jed, he's older. He's in this wheelchairs hospital old age, the only only disease that you don't crotchety as garage, and he wants a cigar. And he's playing games. Right. Like, I mean, he's and you understand. I mean, it's it's in many, I don't know about most Susan has her own strong reasons, but you really start to see jed and Susan the anger and that that lives on towards Charles foster Kane because things don't end well because of who he was, but then you still have those moments of, you know, all I heard he was living down there, all alone. And you know, I I maybe I should have called him because he was probably lonely, and that's just one of those regrets that come. Late in life about an old friend who you've fallen out with. And it's you know, it's those little lines that that craft who these people are and the trajectory they've gone on. And that that particularly affecting seen when jets drunk and they've lost the election. And you hear the theme that was played during the celebration of Kane at the newspaper played as a dirge as they're talking and the camera they've actually dug a hole in the floor to stick the camera. So that they can shoot from this absurdly low angle to make them look almost grotesquely large. And yet the ceiling just weighing on top of them and all the confetti on the floor. That's heartbreaking moment because that's what they lived for. And of course, the beauty of that is in a sense Cain was hoist by his own petard after he got caught in quote love nest. The very kind of. Journalism that reports that is the kind of journalism, he practiced. And of course, I love that dude. If you're going to practice, it then it can also bite, you, you know, where if you if you do something wrong. So well put and we start to see that arrogance of thinking that you can't take the love of the people away from me over some they're going to under-, you know, he thinks he can overcome it. And as you say, no, you've created this system where people thrive on that kind of scandal and love to tear those people down. And of course, you'll be the next one. If you you know, you engage and you did us a love the two headlines they might use fraud at polls. A great sequence as well. That's Rupert Murdoch world. Yep. Salute. You have exactly it's Charles foster Kane defeated for polls. If the headline is big enough as they say, the news is big enough. Thank you. As we start to see very much in this sequence. We see it throughout. But those low angle shots that gives so much power to both Charles foster Kane and Jedi Linda I mean, they're both kind of in that privilege space of the low angle often because Leland accompanies Charles foster. Kane more meant for Charles than it is for Leland. And but as you say that low angle which gives so much power. We see most. In its strongest moment when he confronts Susan and completely consumes her in his shadow, which is such a the height of that kind of power. But it is you say creates this sense of claustrophobia as well for these men who want the power want the success and are not achieving it quite quite in the way, they hope, but I think the only if you're going to dig a hole in the floor in order to get your camera all the way down there, then you are turning what could make these men look powerful into a comment on their power and their loss of power in this particular instances, it spatially handled in a breathtaking way. Yes, I'd love to talk now because you just mentioned about Susan when he he lets her know that you know, you have to go on singing. He says no matter what. I've bought you an opera house. I bought you. I bought you a career I've paid for coaches, you're going to have to go on singing. And then we get that breathtaking montage right out of German expressionism, by the way, that that that that could be an f w Murnau scene and sound all Bernard Hermann just goes out there, and then she tries to kill herself. And then when he sits by her bedside after she's tried to kill herself we hear and this is Herman at is best. He takes the Mozart aria puts it in a Hertie. Gertie sounds like a. Some messenger on the street right out of German in some German folklore. The Hertie Gertie is the agent of death. And if it's so theory, it's so special it's so magical, and it breaks, my heart. Understandably. So I it is. I mean that sequence of after her attempted suicide is it's so emotional, obviously, you feel this woman's pain. And she got in this situation. She did not particularly ask for and is caught up in the cycle of this man's ego. And and emotional district, and she turns out to be the one thing that money he money cannot buy her after all is said and done no matter how much money he built xanadu for her. He built a career for her. He spent gazillion dollars on her and she leaves him. Yep. And obviously, we see the emotional breakdown of that too. Him completely losing control in her bedroom. Which I like how you described it as childlike because it is it does look like the child's bedroom. And if you see the first shot one of the first shots in that room. There's a there's a doll resting against the pillow that in profile looks exactly like Susan in profile. I hadn't noticed that check that out. And then of course, the greatest one take seen probably in movie history is when he destroys the room. Right. I just don't think you can redo that scene. And they didn't it was the first take his hands were bleeding at the end of it. And he was he was in it one hundred percent. I wanna I wanna take a step back even before I know we get to her attempted suicide that montage sequence which you already mentioned is. So I mean, it's so well put together the layering that goes on of obviously her continued performances the reviews that accompany them the lights flashing. It all is layered quite clearly on top of each other to create this meaning that we associate, and what's what's so interesting to me are the elements that this film combines this film is best known in history for its depth of field. And it's long takes. I mean, it that was a technological advancement what they were able to do with the long take in this movie and the depth of field. And that's completely valid. It's gorgeous to watch the scenes in foreground and background play out. But it's not just a movie about depth of field. And it's keenly aware of saying we know how to use the right technique in the right moment to convey what we're hoping to convey the montage is already hinted at early on. Because this film has great visual irony from the beginning. Obviously, it's not cut to anything but him saying there will be no war in that. Opening segment is it's nineteen forty one. We know that that. That's incorrect. The scene that immediately precedes kind of kicking off the montage. But Susan saying oh charl- said that if you know if they won't have me in New York, he's going to build me my own opera hall, and he says well that won't be necessary. And immediately cut to a headline saying Charles foster Kane built an opera house in Chicago. I mean, these visual ironies of saying. We're pointing out that this is this is. This is a flawed. This man is outside his own ego. And then it culminates in this montage sequence to convey this the chest the exhaustion of this woman's decline. And ultimately, you hear her singing, and then musically it almost becomes a scream which dies out at the end. It's like I won't imitate it because all do a badly. But, but it is the end she never really wanted to be this kind of a singer show. She said of the beginning that she doesn't want to sing that kind of. It's not the beauty of the the way they do her singing in the movie is she's not God awful. She's just not good. And there's a difference. She's not Florence foster Jenkins. Right. But she she's clearly bad. Not. We're going to go with not good. Okay. And she's not meant to be on an opera stage. Not certainly you can almost sense singing different song. It wouldn't be. It would be fine. But but. But it's and then the other sequence actually it's very much going. We consider the long takes. There was a one particular scene that actually has very traditional Hollywood editing of the shot reverse shot, and it's the scene in Susan's apartment as they are falling in love if you will. But clearly he's quite smitten with her particularly mostly because she doesn't know who he is. And she likes him anyway. But it's that scene as they are falling in love that you get that very traditional Hollywood shot reverse shot back and forth because falling in love is typically Hollywood. So why not use the typical Hollywood language for it? Exactly. You we just they Orson Welles Gregg Toland rubber wise, as you say all these people have a sense of these are all the tools at our disposal. We don't need to stick to just one and they can all fit together. Still be very coherent visual theme and style. That carries the whole film. Right. And it is the elegance and precision with which they use all the elements of the language of film without really over using any of without. I think calling too much attention to the magic of what they're doing. And if the same time honoring so much tradition in movies from John Ford, German expressionism and doing doing it all with with Grayson style, and and care and a certain amount of what's PA. But not too much. It's not it's not a it's not a film that brags on it self. It's not it's very well done. Don't get me wrong. But it's not. Hey, look what I'm doing. I'm just a kid with a camera. It's a film that does so much. It would be easy for it to feel like an exercise in filmmaking. Perfect and look how much we can do. Right. And it doesn't come off that way at all. And it is the restraint. It's the combination of enough restraint the deliver. Borate approach and then the sophistication of the people involved. I mean, Orson Welles clearly extremely talented, but as you say has long background of artistic expression, but has not made a movie yet at this point in his career is very young and knows appropriately. How to defer to people like Greg Toland Robert wise Harmon megabits thank Bernard Hermann. I mean, and you think all of these men combined this could turn into an ego fest of no it's going to be the visuals. No, it's gonna be the sound. No. I'm going to tell a story through montage editing. No, it's the dialogue. No. It's the perfect balance of all of these things, and that's really where the movie excels by tapping into the right thing at the right moment. Layering multiple pieces together to my knowledge. The only real tension that existed between mak- wits and Orson Welles in that wells was going to try and take credit for having written the movie and at. Absolutely not the case not that. He didn't have a strong influence on the writing. But ultimately, they share credit and one of the thing, I think we should mention and that is almost all of the actors are unknown to the movie going public. They are theater actors and wells has the generosity, and and to a certain extent the false humility to introduce them. If the end with the exception of himself, which he keeps to the last credit, but introducing them visually because they're they're newcomers are theater, folks. And and they're. Skill at acting is brings a certain kind of acting to this movie that the movie going public probably hadn't seen acting such depth one in particular like to mention because maybe sometime we can do this movie is the magnificent Amerson coming up starring Joseph Cotten who plays gently. I think we have to do it. And kind of you know, it'll be an ongoing conversation surrounding wells and his style and things like that. I think as we're nearing the end of this film. We haven't given Susan exactly her full shift yet we go back to her. And now, we do get those sequences in xanadu. We get to see them living there. If you want to call it that it's absurd. The distance between the chairs the size of that fireplace. The sound when you're talking there sounds like Thatcher's library. I might add exactly this connection between xanadu. Thatcher and his style on Olympics in there two moments in that sequence that that just astound me one is that sort of interior screaming when they're often the picnic, and he slaps her. And then we hear the scream, and we think for a second most becoming from an adjoining tent, or we don't know is it inside her some pain. She's feeling we don't know. And then shortly thereafter, we get the cockatoo which straight one of my students point out. Real definitely wake you up if you fall asleep, and it does. If but it's that moment is so that sequence there is so charged for him. So he can't understand this it nobody can leave me. I can leave you can divorce you can abandon you can do whatever. But you can't leave me. And she does. And he responds in fantastic. That's sequence of you almost get a sense when he approaches her to convince her not to leave that he's almost saying the right things to get her to stay so close. And then it's you can't do this to me and re-clarify for her exactly why she's doing this in the first place that this is somehow being done to you that it's all about you in your mind, you control everything nothing is going to change whatsoever. And then in case you thought you were getting to know him a little. Better. You see the shot of reflection upon reflection upon reflection upon reflection of him, and you go which one of these Infinity of images is the real, man. We will not no he doesn't know. He doesn't know. Absolutely. Neither do you. And neither do I by the way. I mean, so many visual means such stunning visuals early. I mean as you say her with her jigsaw puzzles endlessly him stepping into his own fireplace. Practically in the flames of his mouth like fireplace saying, I have no desire to go to New York. And you know, this is our home is nothing. But there's for some reason one couch and one chair in this cavernous place. I love the line of dialogue in the tent later on. And first of all, I don't know what your thought was the first time you saw this movie. But let's just say the Charles foster Kane, and I have extremely different perspectives on what picnic and said you think oh, here's. He's like, let's go have a picnic. It's an intimate thing to people on a blanket. Some of car. It's a fleet a caravan. And what you have to assume our people paid to come and spend time with those who are these people, and they don't they don't talk to them. One little thing about the picnic scene as I think, you know, they make it look Everglades. They use some footage from King Kong. And if you look if you look in the background you can see pterodactyls flying about which probably would not be true Everglades. But that's kind of fun. Yes. See that. They're very dinosaur important in that scene, and that sequence here in xanadu that heartens back from my mind to something else in the movie, I'd like to mention when we go early in the film, the sled getting covered with snow, and we move into the world of Charlie being raised by Thatcher and the Bank we get time passing. And we hear train we hear clock or music that. Sounds like a clock. The next time. We get that. Same feeling is when Susan is doing her jigsaw puzzles and the season's pass and we hear a clock again music. That sounds like a clock and time and trying to fit together the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle are conflicted, and we're getting a little clue. And then here's a delicious thing for me. I'm told I believe I'm correct about this the last major not major, but the last player of any kind and citizen Kane to die is the woman who speaks the line about bet, you know, she has the jigsaw puzzle. And she says, I bet if you could figure out what what Rosebud is that answering and Thompson says no, I don't think so he's he's at least come to realize after all his investigating Thompson being the reporter. Yes. And I think it's just fascinating. That's the person who has left the cast last. That is a poetic if nothing else here. Absolutely, correct. And we do have that ending of the endless things narrow the only vestiges left of this man, most of which are being burned or sold off. And we think I mean as Thompson says because he is very much are standing over the course of this movie. That's none of this really is is getting at anything. No, there's not there is not that one key piece. It is very much a jigsaw puzzle. With the missing piece as you say, it is very much wandering through a labyrinth never finding a center as my metaphor goes love, your metaphor, the two of them. I mean, they're both. I think we're saying the exact same thing. Which is we want to ascribe meaning to this in a way that life just doesn't particularly allow for and the and we think we get the answer we see Rosebud in the fire. And then it just. Goes up in smoke. And then we have to climb back down the fence and be reminded than all along. We weren't even supposed to be there. We were trespassing, and we were told not to, but we we did it. And we are only informed about this. But it is a profound discovery. We are informed that we human beings are mysteries to ourselves and to others. I can't top that. So I hope at the end of this hour to an hour and a half long episode, which I hope you listeners don't mind, I've certainly enjoyed partaking in it as have I max that I don't think you can you can say a movie is the best movie the greatest movie, but this is certainly an very important movie movie worth studying were talking about and its influence is is obviously extr. Great one of the very flying. Very interesting factoid about this movie going back to the historical context of it was that Hearst, obviously William Randolph. Hearst vary upset with this movie creation. And this man held tremendous power both in Hollywood and in the country in general and of no pressure of his direct pressure of his own the heads of the other major Hollywood studios offered Arcadio who released this movie had the deal with Orson Welles. They offered ARCO a million dollars which obviously no short some money at the time to not release. It not only to not release it to burn the negative that you're an archaic declined the offer. Now, given the controversy surrounding and the desire people not to make this man angry. The movie did not do. Well, they get made back its money in the end. It did not make a million dollars in profit by any means. But credits who knows exactly their motivations at the time. But we're certainly all the luckier as a society that Arcadia wasn't completely dollar incense driven in that moment in time and said, no, this is an important movie too close. So there you have it Ted. Thank you so much. Well, I'm very excited to have you back. I hope our audience feels the same way. I'm sure they do because you're up suits do. Well, and rightfully so I enjoy our conversations over an out. That concludes our episode on citizen. Kane I would love to hear what you think of this. Classic movie must feel to tweet at movie must spot or Email. Classic movie must edgy mail dot com. You can listen to all our episodes. Or learn more about the show on our website. Classic movie must dot com. Support the show and received cool perks on patriot like becoming a producer of the show and get your name read at the end of every episode just like our current producers. Don, Hoffman, Lee, Eleanor b and max on redid. Thank you, all for your generous, patronage checkout, all our support tears and their rewards over at patriot dot com slash classic movie. Musts on the next episode. We're discussing the Roman Polanski horror film Rosemary's baby Rosemary's baby is available for streaming rental on itunes, Amazon YouTube and Google play. Remember episodes every Friday on all podcast services. Thank you so much for listening until the next episode keep up with your classics.

Charles foster Kane Rosebud mister Thatcher Everett Sloane Bernstein Kane Charles foster Kane Orson Welles MRs Cain Susan Alexander Mary Susan Rosebud Herman Mankiewicz citizen Kane Charles foster Walter parks Thatcher Wells Charles foster publisher Ted Walsh Jedidiah Leland Rosebud sled