10 Episode results for "Benjamin O"
"This episode is brought to you by one eight hundred flowers dot com right on time too because Valentine's date is so soon at one eight hundred flowers hours you'll find rose. Bouquets are guaranteed to impress at impeachable prices. When you use the Code Romance at Checkout Right now you can get the eighteen stem? I and chanted Rose Medley for just twenty nine ninety nine. If you really WANNA throw down you can double the roses twenty dollars more. Go to one eight hundred flowers. Dot Dot com click the radio icon and enter Code Romance Order today and save at one eight hundred flowers dot com with Code Romance. This podcast is brought to you by the new award. Winning documentary the disappearance of my mother from Italian director. Benjamin nobody say a portrait of the filmmakers mother. Benedetta breath Barzini a rebellious sixties fashion model. Who became a dedicated activist feminist and scholar who challenged the male gaze of the fashion industry? The film is a New New York Times critic's pick that. They hailed as mesmerizing and tender. The disappearance of my mother is available on all major digital platforms including breaker dot IL. Can you explain Zack. Each inbox. We were all sitting here in the newsroom last night expecting some results from Iowa was that our first mistake. I think we're being pretty reasonable last night when we were all yelling at the television in some cases quite literally cough cough negotiates cough cough. We had expected results at that point reasonably based on every prior Iowa Caucus. Right right you don't normally take until well into the next day to count and at the time we're taping this we I still don't have a result and this is like Tuesday afternoon. Yeah so like by all precedent. This makes no sense so what went wrong last night when it comes to the actual source of the errors. It's actually not fully clear. What went wrong so I will give you two theories one of which seems obviously true but disputed by the Iowa Democratic Party and the other one is with the Iowa? Democratic Party's official line is but we're not sure if it's true so the disputed version is that there was a problem with the APP itself basic functionality. The APP is a new thing. The Iowa Democratic Party was using to calculate and send in results and it was developed by this firm called and I am not making this stop it called shadow perfect And nobody had heard of it before in major public life but is very new APP. Development started around two months ago and and there are lots of reports from people on the ground in Iowa including precinct captains. Who are in charge of doing this reporting that? They couldn't download the APP that they couldn't get it to work. Couldn't get it open can get to send results. The backup plan was to just call in the results. Manually Sean Sebastian's joining us right now. From Story County is a precinct secretary out there. What can you tell us about this delay in getting any results show wolf? I have been on hold for over an hour with the Iowa. The Democratic Party The captain got held up for an hour on hold and then he was talking to CNN when he got off hold and when he tried to switch they hung up on empire. What are you hearing? I know you're listening to conversation from the Iowa Democratic Party. This is a real coincidence. Incidence Wolf I just got off hold just now so I've got to get off the phone to report the results. Go ahead report. Can we listened in as your report. Them Sean Yup. Yep Okay Hi Hello. They hung up on me. They hung up on me okay. The Democratic Party says that the APPS basic functionality was not the problem they say the problem is that some combination of the APP and the precinct captains themselves were not doing the calculation of the final vote tally correctly. And this is a little bit complicated right so so there were some rule changes that were kind of confusing people last night. What exactly changed? Basically the Iowa Democratic Party for the first time said they'd be sending out three different results of the caucus and releasing them publicly. The first one is is the first alignment sort of where people were standing who they wanted to vote for it I in the little physical caucus room. Okay second result is the second alignment which is what happens after people get to choose based on who got eliminated the first time around. Because they're coming into their conversing so their their minds are going to change right. Okay and they're also can get eliminated inbetween alignments. If they didn't in their area get get over fifteen percent. Okay so if I went into caucus for Joe Biden Biden only got thirteen percent. Then I would be free to go pick. I don't know whoever else I wanted Ed. So that was the second thing. But then there's the third and I think most important result which is the delegate hall And there's a formula that converts verts in different precincts. The second alignment into this Delegate Count How many delegates you get from winning this particular area. This is all math. Laugh yes it's all. It's all math. Big Cuba Yang hat according to the Democratic Party there were some weird discrepancies in these three. The numbers they just weren't matching up in the way they were supposed to okay and so they some statement suggested that this was user error. Some statements suggested that this was like a problem with the APPs tabulation. It's still Kinda Paik. Okay two theories one. The new APP was crap. The Iowa Democratic Party certainly isn't co-signing that theory too that I will like people couldn't handle the new rules correct but either way the combination. The APP and the rule changes really spell disaster here. Did anyone see this coming. There were reports coming up in the weeks and day before saying that the APP was experiencing some problems but a lot of them were focused on cybersecurity that the APP was not well vetted or tested by cybersecurity security experts and that they're vulnerable to a hack okay but nobody had any idea that it would be this bad also. Nobody had any idea That their backup plan of these phone lines would be so broken. You'd think it would be really easy to just call and be like hey in my precinct here are the three different numbers like a good good back-up plan. Yeah but for whatever reason I would democratic party completely screwed it up and the calls weren't coming ineffectively and so in the absence of an effective APP and effective backup system. We just have complete chaos. Why we're all these changes implemented in the first place? Did something go so badly wrong long in two thousand sixteen that they needed an APP plus a bunch of rule changes not so badly wrong with there've been longstanding complaints about inefficiency in an unfairness of the caucus is for a lot of reason and last time around the sanders campaign in particular was unhappy with the way that the process treated them and they had long been arguing that the process us was was sort of unfairly stacked in Hillary Clinton's favor and so these transparency efforts. I think we're in part a response to that critique. So what is the latest from the Iowa Democratic Party. Everyone thinks the Iowa Democratic Party screwed up royally except according to their own press statements. The Iowa Democratic Party Classic this is from the Democratic Party. Communications Director Mandy McCloy already. This is our first official explanation from the reading. The integrity of the the results is paramount. We have experienced a delay in results due to quality checks and the fact that the Democratic Party is reporting three data sets. It's for the first time what we know right now. Is that around twenty five percent of precincts have reported and early data indicates turn out is on pace for twenty twenty sixteen. Where did this mess leave the candidates in this race? It left the candidates trying to spin whatever happened in their favor based on the preliminary results of their campaign has been able to tabulate and they've been able to get access to and so what you've got. Is Buddha judge declaring victory. We know by the time it's all said None Iowa you have shock in the nation you have the Biden campaign saying that this was an absurd outcome because it seemed like they did relatively poorly credit forties. He's working and get this results getting string. And I WANNA make sure they're very carefully deliberations you have the Sanders Campaign Billing this as going well for them but not being as definitive. Have a good feeling. We're going to be doing very very well and the Warren campaign taking more neutral line is tell cost to call so. I'm just going to tell you what I do. Know you are the Horn a minute Zach unto they explained There's really no middle ground. When it comes to flowers on Valentine's Day either the bouquet ordered? I Lucky Valentine is great with large vibrant roses. or it's just don't get stuck with man this Valentine's Day trust the experts at one eight hundred flowers dot com. They're affordable rose bouquets. Have the biggest and brightest flowers. You'll find anywhere and right now. They've got an amazing deal. Going on you can get there. Eighteen stem enchanted rose medley for just twenty nine ninety nine. And if you really WANNA throw down for just twenty dollars more. They'll double the roses. Don't miss out get your order. In February fifth to get that eighteen stem enchanted rose madly for just twenty nine ninety nine or pay the extra twenty dollars to double the Rosa's go to one eight hundred flowers dot com click the radio icon and enter Code Romance. Pick your delivery date and one eight hundred flowers will handle the rest quarter today and save at one eight hundred flowers dot com code romance. This podcast is brought to you by the new award. Winning documentary honoree the disappearance of my mother from Italian director. Benjamin O body say a portrait of the filmmakers mother Benedetta Zini a rebellious sixties fashion model. Who became matt dedicated activists feminist scholar who challenged the male gaze of the fashion industry? The film is a New York Times critic's pick that they hailed as mesmerizing and and tender the disappearance of my mother is available on all major digital platforms including breaker dot. Co Hello Pete was the only candidate to really come out and declare victory last night but everyone was trying to sort of spin the results in their favor. Who did this delay in Iowa really benefit? And who did it really hurt. We've been talking about the four leading candidates Right Buddha Judge Biden Warren Sanders I o all of a significant. All of them it was. I would say most significant to Buddha judge who really invested in the state and had not been doing well in the not especially white states aides later down the calendar and needed to do well in the state was demographically very favourable for him so it really mattered for him and unsurprisingly he was the one who came out and declared A. Ah shocker there Sanders also wants to win early because he needs to develop a sense of momentum to fully displace Biden because like Buddha judge. He's not doing as well in Nevada and South Carolina as he has in New Hampshire and Iowa. The two earlier states wore needed a strong showing to show she has an out of it and for Biden. It was the least important because he's been doing well in these later states but a really really bad showing crater his support which people have been warning has been soft the whole time. It has not seemed true. Because he's been leading the polls for so long but if he really cratered in Iowa. It's possible this could become a self-fulfilling l.. Fulfilling prophecy so those are the four people. It's all important to them to varying degrees and now everyone's off to the next one. Their fight right. Now is New Hampshire and New Hampshire. Now is much more important than it was previously. which kinda crazy thing to say because it was already very important? Iowa matters a lot not because of its delegate count which is pretty low but because of its role in setting media and donor expectations. If you do well in Leioa you can sort of start bandwagon and people get to support you and other places because you look plausible likewise you get a lot of favorable media coverage which gets you more attention more donors owners Cetera but in the absence of declared results in Iowa. Nobody's getting these benefits. Nobody's getting this narrative momentum that they wanted to get the night of and plus we have a bunch of news this week coming up including The state of the Union Democratic debate which could end up overshadowing feeling. We're at least somewhat displacing. The Iowa results which means the New Hampshire campaign will kind of become the first meaningful media narrative primary. Not entirely again. 'cause I will result will come out at one point and those will matter. The delay has has sort of screwed up the timeframe that the media needed. He did and that candidates needed to take advantage of whatever happened in Iowa. Is there any chance of something like what happened in Iowa could happen in New Hampshire. Did they just change you. Bunch rules and introduce a funky APP. Not that I'm aware of And it's a primary not a caucus so it's relatively straightforward. It's standard electoral counting. Right people vote and then the vote tallies go in and then that determines who gets what is anyone going to trust. Trust Iowa to lead the pack. I mean we talked to our colleague Lezo on the show on Monday about how there's already this momentum behind changing the primary reprocess not letting Iowa go first because it's not really representative of the rest of the country now that everyone saw them flipping coins and punting the results and having this APP APPs. SNAFU is it all but sure that I was going to be reexamined as the leader of this process. I think the party would be Just totally irresponsible. If they didn't right there were always good reasons to move Iowa out of the slot. It's absurd that a state that has such a white electorate in the Democratic Party which is incredibly incredibly diverse nationally. That you'd go first and Lee has good piece to that effect on. Vox Dot Com. But it's not just that the caucus system itself is Biased in predictable ways. So for example You have to show I don a Monday. What if you're a working parent who can't afford childcare? What if you're you're disabled? A lot of the facilities don't have good accessibility mechanisms. There are all sorts of reasons why this system is biased us towards a very small number of people but if Iowans are stubborn about this they should not have this much influence over the national political environments beyond. Just the you know obvious inconvenience to the candidates to the Democratic Party with these delays. I wonder just how bad this looks for our our democracy right now that the very first thing in this election got bungled. I mean especially recovering from an election where we have confirmed armed Russian interference in our presidential election. Yeah can't overstate how bad it is from that point of view. The the campaigns didn't help matters so the way that that elections work the democracy at a really basic level is that you have public faith in the process and that displeases any sense that your opponents one unfairly right in other countries where they don't have faith in their democratic process. You end up getting results contested and that often leads into actual conflict because people don't don't believe that the other side has a fair claim to leadership and they're willing to dispute that claim using force. I'm not suggesting we're close to that. In the United States. I'm just using that. To underline align the theory as to why the legitimacy of elections is so important and what happens in the worst case when he gets compromised and here we not only have the legitimacy obviously compromised An official statement and a Biden spokesperson have said that there are serious questions about what's going on and that there's reasons to be concerned about the Outcome Buddha judge declaring victory created some significant conspiracy theories online and so this idea that the APP is causing problems. uh-huh Buddha judges declaring victory when nobody knows what's happening but it looks like Bernie may have. Actually one has led a lot of burning people on twitter to say this is outrageous this APP rigged it and fever of Buddha judge of evidence for that but the fact that he is so aggressively setting expectations added a lot of fuel fuel to that fire The number one hashtag nationwide in the United States on twitter was mayor cheat and it illustrated how little faith there was after the results of last night among lots of people in the outcome. And that's the kind of body blow to the democratic legitimacy of an election. That's difficult to recover from because once that trust is lost it's difficult to gain back that sort of in the nature of of trust itself. Do we have the trust. The company called Shadow. That was very dumb just just very dumb on so many levels at least change the name before we make the APP together. Can you hire early light of day INC or like we're honest. I mean there's just so many other things they could have called it trustworthy. I don't know if you call it trustworthy. I feel like it has extreme. Lots of questions that are already answered by this t shirt vibes to it. Shadow had to be amongst the the worst neighbors house. Real bad. Just real bad. Is anyone going to trust these when they actually come out whenever that is Halloween thanksgiving You know yeah. Yeah when they're released on the eve of the next Olympics. I think people will have good reason to trust them. I I really don't think that there's a all conspiracy theories aside any reason to believe that the Iowa Democratic Party is is rigging this election in one way or another or that their incompetence will like irretrievably. Screw up the basic results. I think they'll be a very long paper trail trail that one can use to confirm that the Tallis end up being accurate. I think the issue is that people will will will not believe it. It's weird you have to hold these two ideas together in your hat the same time both at the process was totally mismanaged. And also no that the end result of it though it's delayed and though there were lots of regularities has really good reasons to be seen as trustworthy but we do need to hold both of those ideas in our head at the same time one thing seems sure to me that this probably helped donald trump more than anyone else. Oh Yeah. Trump campaign is loving us. Both of the president's this large adult sons Donald trump junior and eric have tweeted that the processes rigged his campaign manager. Brad parcel also suggested it was rigged first of all. They're trying to obviously stoke divisions inside the Democratic Party trump has done this before he thinks he can weaponize the team Bernie anti-establishment sentiment against the party itself off. I don't think Bernie fans really take trump seriously on this point but he's certainly trying to make these things worse seconds. You know the more infighting there is among Democrats rats. Even if trump isn't stoking it the better things are for the trump campaign and today they got their best Gallup result in some time if he was like a forty nine percent approval rating. Is there anything the Democrats can do in the coming weeks to sort of band together and support each other through this mess or is that unlikely. Considering that the competition's getting you know as as thick as it's been the best thing Democrats can. Do going through is a hold elections. They don't do this have fair. Transparent open non irregular processes and conventionally the Iowa staff will will be displaced by a narrative of an actual real campaign. But that's the best thing that they can do is make sure that everything's airtight. Your type in the upcoming states. Another screw up like this. I don't even want to speculate just happened. That could be ZAC. Beecham is a senior correspondent at Vox. He also so is one of the hosts of our worldly podcast. I'm Sean Rotherham. This is today explained
Lt. Colonel Robert Friend, Tuskegee Airman
"Our guest this week got veterans chronicles is retired air force, Lieutenant Colonel Robert friend. He is a World War, Two veteran and a member of the famous Gigi airmen, and Colonel friend. Thank you, very much for being with us, and you where were you born and raised, sir boon? Because. Falls. Who games this country for as you -cation? Did not want to go home when he graduated. And but sure he's your army they didn't afford Jackson. South hill. Minimum of their and results me, and then where was it from Quito Ecuador? Okay. And then after. He thought these little ones over and everything. Choose. He they went to New York as well. Raised. In the Bronx and the city. Yes. Okay. What was that, like? Different. At never noticed the difference. The you know everybody has great player in baseball team. The game. Of special owns Asians that they had around him. But when the side going to cars and things as is insulin. How old were you when Pearl Harbor was attacked and what was your reaction? Well. Action. Thought I in a way I was tells. She's passed away too, but a name with my plane and. Radio is on L sudden served as Gil of, of the duck. So, hey has Jesus Christ. He's guys getting good. But drill thing and so naturally. The thinking. Be drafted. More. And full of bulging. Is it? Okay. Get to opportunity. We have had you done any flying before. Yes. Berg and others. Begin. You around the world tours. They were seeing love things to receive blow back information for government. One was. People over there, getting ready for something did Trittin, lots of people fly where it was or will in. And they came a little. They knows all he seem going on. And so government decided we better just keep pace. So they started civilian poultry program. And put it into colleges selected on the basis of what the school. As right. Can't be in that, right. Can't the people that mean by that? A lot of girls who, who something that so. But. What they did was to. Each of these schools. And if they would willing to put these things like else space. Activities in to. Their curriculum they would take. It will five guys at school will was in Pennsylvania, and all four of them. It's a ski and means. Yeah, that was before because I thought that was gonna get real weight. But it took a little wealth gets her own. Colin's. Dreamy. Reason, of course. Racial. You go in and out all mixed up. Racially. Myo buzz management of those way you. You. Okay. So you sign up after Pearl Harbor and then what happens to go straight to ski year somewhere in between. This is after after Pearl Harbor as pull hub. Wintered. Strange was in what he d. And over Redway lady lived in the in. Virginia. And I was. Bush dove. Miges but yet about the draining wind up to these AM passed the exams and said, begging we did. They gave him in. One zero two three four. No, Gino into when Goethe's ski in. What was to Gigi like well to ski was different for me, of course. It was. Nicely environment in. We, we get these feel heading finish the airfield. So the trend to place on or feel big open. Green, though own that school and scoop provided didn't structures. So it'd be look on on on. In Sivota pictures who see that though instructors group of them and all them non my. And. The. Continue to do this for the government under contract that was when visits loser to her, and she would down to that's to that school before the base open. We. When I finished my first phase head to go to these. Putting in run ways and all the stuff. So they have army base that was in. So this now I live in a barracks before was living in the student callers. It's the school how tough was the training. Tinging was really of. You know ahead as head plays -perience. So the news that the hardest part of things. Some of the. Ground school activities like this we as we had to. Learn how to sit in received most code and. Of the things that is that where you met Benjamin Davis for the first time I didn't know that I never met him. Well, it was it's a ski he was already gone and operating with the other parts of the company to make them have as they put it combat. Ready status and the eagle. At that time. These still the narrowness Zeeshan deny night when it was formed for guy. And they keep adding to it until he got it to squad from side, then would would would have sinned, squadron and the squadron win over to twelve air force, which is in. In, in episodes of and. African area in AS Roma's Asian, it was attached to one. The union sues already there. What were you deployed to England? Never did they send you. Africa and Italy. Gotcha. Okay. So see explain is to, to you. Eight airforce was operating out of. Other. Written. Then they will do ju two minutes job bombing those organizations and activities that contributing to Jim and said war here plane manufactures bag tank and all these things and people being forced do this to great extent. Hey wouldn't is the Moyal. Let's go. The land the grill. Polen good too. Make them work didn't it? And then when school. The youngsters they would really working. With the young people in all of their activities. They, they dropped paper, I have Coon copies. Those things. Wouldn't they drop by the Germans into our side in kindness? Stop fighting over and join them. On this day will drop paper. See, we will bushes. Yeah. And we had one also. As POWs in Russian because if we get down over here. Work on you. But we since his American. If explain the whole thing. So you've done all this training. What was your first combat experience like fish comeback? That came out of all that. All we now all in twelfth air force and the twelve airforce head responsibility over. That African Bush and the. Awful italy. It's. And yet. And we, we. Ground- support activities. Like. Jim. Make moves. They would do is send at fight of planes out, and it would have to anything. Do it and shoot down room, whatever it was trying to build up. And. We learned a lot in war. Who's initially? It was almost like culet people who people. Influence people? And so consequently. It would go with him bomb factories. And bombed petroleum sources and anything going to continue to. Attack in some way. Whereas and my first mission was, it was all fighter and only thing we did was due to coal fire sweep, and that's you fly over there to, to just looking for target. And when you find me, whatever kind of an attack this get the best result, they could marshalling yard. Down. We have been I. We, we could be. But I never never dropped wome. We've Lewis win tanks in place of bomb. So we go for. So when did you meet general Davis? Digital. When I would sit overseas. Nice man. Also come Roberts was very nice man and current. More every time. Davis left us with Robertson charge. As I into working for him for roads, kind of a leader where they kind of leaders were they very tough job. The you if you stop thinking about it, most of the owners Asians, if they would could go back as somebody who had some experienced base the actively or. He only thing, the head with training and he had take people out of his own class. I class and so early early over earlier glasses. And to put them in to keep is editions. Perations of. Is in crew commanders. Squad a cheap. Flight us. And so, so and then. Tough apart. If he did. Guy, but he had to put somebody if you picked guys that he was wrong. Placing tram. Yet, he's had time to train people. If you had time. What we did. How did you become his wing man? Please parks, the same Revette -ment. And so with those of book of fellow unfortunately, yeah. He is. Fuel-oil Monday missions. But. He'd flew, one of the things that. Davis did was to gig. Some guidance from the debate in. They were saying, look. We don't care about how many fighters you down shoot bomb as was Cozma, bro. Does is done things that we need to use up. Get some of the stuff that the moving onto Brown as. And as kind of, of thinking was going on, for instance, you know. You know, so you only have a bomb factories, then the guy should why do we have he bombed the factory, why we just find that willing to make keyboards and one is we said ball bearings all over Germany. Because they knew it borders into everywhere. We did. Place. The. Will they would wouldn't attack and? Not bad part out. And then we improve something further from then all of the says, hey. Why just will burn while not? Some nelson. This more. Significant part of new. Meanwhile it'd be a plan we've fly. May transition to p forty but sees p thirty nine. Peter in. Geared put tacking round things it hit a thirty seven millimeter gallon, and over to the minimum gallon and not jump tanks the big stuff like that. And actively and but as a war, grades progressed to Germans started to leave Africa. And she leave Africa, it was now putting all their in places along, the Ribble Novum rim of the Mediterranean, and we would have measurement get income back, so forth. But ATF was operating out of England head already established quiet, one Dacian in the business of bombing, and because they, but they got all those things they will in the northern real of the garden. Well. Germans. Shoot diplomas down. Now we gotta worry about save it. And that's why. Again, information given to. Davis. Don't worry about. Duggan down fighters. Stop the bums stop bomb because. Germs bomb into blazes. England and you know it progressed all the way through to missile you so this little in those activities. Well, we has known as Asian now, which had been part of this will, when they say, we're gonna stash the fifteenth air force, and fifteen day oppose is going to do what? During from the north, but deal Misao so leaving bell south world. We had all of the bases. So the Germans fighting desperately to protect anything north, Rome. And then after that Beethoven head thing north Rimini -pective, slowly, and that's where they were in a war, and but. They. The fifty therefore when it was established these. Well, we need people in airplanes, that can make load long hauls. So is that the three thirty second and attest in the one that them Siptah twelve therefore took him moved them, over to the fifteenth air force, and that's where we escorted bombers, and we through with to rag airplanes. Getting because we started with. P forty seven. We flew to forty seven and. March for. Lodge. June. Jim. In June, and we flew lead for one month. Then we transferred to fifty one through a I p fifty one mission on a fourth of July. So Bill would loot. Thing. And of course, as that's what we flew from until. In the world. Our guest this week on veterans chronicles is retired air force, Lieutenant Colonel Robert friend. He is a World War, Two veteran and a member of the famous Gigi. Airmen, what does it mean to you to be part of the two ski airmen that now seventy plus years later? Your group is highly respected and largely believed to have played a major role in the advancement of the civil rights movement. Sure. Into sense. I don't. Could say. Contributed anymore. Love, though, relations worst averaged to do that. You know, but we. And now just opportunity to move some of these parts of the world that you never gone to. Stars, you have to wait up to elevate. How debate. Your activities so that they consider these people s people. Though, you tell you about experience of mine. Lillian Africa held us in. We, we use digital people to do a lot of things sort of the so's befriended by the war. So. We had this young villain in Utah. He was digging visual and these this is your first time. It after. Yes. Have you ever been out of that for, you know? So so, so. You know, he he's what would you to know about me? So I had seen that movie which job boy. And he said, I told him I would love to see this bottle. Oh. So he's take you. That thought something big. It's low most likely. Owners ation cluber of but is. Broadened the found out. But when I went up to. Great big walls, and all of them said, of lemons to all uniform personnel offline, though. So. Oh, god. He's really guess what? He said to casper. Ply kid, go to casper look, so you can go cast ball. No, I said by going MP's kit. In trouble. So he said. No, appeasing casual ambience guys. So I said, well, why would I wanna go someplace where? He said, because you same as the. Wow. I can't full circle. Just about out of time last thing, obviously, when you serve in the military, sometimes think of the other men in your unit is your brothers, right? Your band of brothers. Well in your case, they really are your brothers because they married your sister's how many times. How many times we three at the two ski airmen, married your sister's including the one we just interviewed Harry. All all. Jackson told you but him he he was. Here. Bad day. On take off. He blew the is made him have more than intended just did miss the towel is. But now he says, well, though, put this thing on the ground, I don't wanna do it while it's got all his fuelling flat. Mitchum. Do with the back that I've done damage. Both. So he went on a mission. Shut down on the mission. And when he was going to while VIN the bears you, they shooting. Hit the ground running. To this day. Oh, he would he wouldn't be able to have the paper reports. They road at came back, but he. Ran would the underground and. Goats bill. Through. Lou through and. Something else. The, the have just this three things and I'm sure that's what contributes is condition at came back for one month is all the acid. What about you code? You know, I say what will you wear is it would seem form for one month. So man, you will down kill germs. Amazing story, Mr. fron. He he. He actually was nice guy. Very nice guy. And. He. When he came back, he became a detective Chicago. And then we tied from net they went to, to back to South Carolina with the lady was from and they both best way. Very sorry. Sir. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you service to our country. In to give you people, a lot of credit for love thing that happened. I think he exposed his own success. You know you legislate all you want. Feel it if the people don't feel it. The people don't themselves to do it. It won't be done. Anyway. How much legislation? Likes in feel low. Russell is if they go sixty. Thank you so much for your time today. Honor, sir. Thank you.
Lt. Col. James Harvey III
"And now an ad from dad, right? Save money on car insurance. When you bundle home and auto with progressive gotta take these off. Right. What is this? Wow. Where did you get this? I'm talking to you with the hair. Yeah. Where did you get this good stuff, solid? That's not veneer that solid stuff. Progressive can't save you from becoming your parents, but we can save you money when you bundle home and auto. Progressive casualty insurance company affiliates and other insurance. Discounts not available in all states or situations. Our guest this week on veterans chronicles is retired air force Lieutenant Colonel. James Harvey the third. He's a veteran of World War Two and the Korean war. He is also a member of the legendary to ski airman and Colonel Harvey. Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you for the opportunity to say something grades. Let's start with the beginning of your story. Where were you born and raised, sir? Born in Montclair, New Jersey and nineteen twenty three and it left there and nineteen thirty six and moved to Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania, and from their stay there about seven eight months, then moved to mountaintop. Well, actually knowing go station, Pennsylvania, which is who country town, and that's why I was raised northeastern Pennsylvania. What was it like growing up in the depression? Well, I didn't know much about what was going on really remember standing in lines and New Jersey with my mother in the food line, I call it really thin. And but no things didn't bother me. I don't know why. But anyway, I stood in line with her, and that was before we moved upon Sylvania. I didn't Pennsylvania, no problems whatsoever and history of service in your family. No, not until I went in, and then I had a brother that went in after I. So if you're born in one thousand nine hundred twenty three or about eighteen years old when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor in December of nineteen forty one what was your reaction to that? I didn't know much about what was going on, but they attacked Pearl Harbor. They said it was a sneak attack. Well, I disagree with that during war, there's no such thing as it's make attack. But anyway, nothing registered with me at that particular time. Join the service or no. I tried to list in January nineteen forty three out of the army air corps, and they said they wanna taking enlistment at that time. So I said, okay, no problem there. And they drafted me in the army in March of forty three. So the reason the air force didn't want me because I was not Caucasian. Did they tell you that no? I didn't have to that was the highest of the war. Wow. How did you react to that knowing that, that was their reason for rejecting you at first? I was there that were the rule so okay. No problem. See, I don't let things bother me. Never did. So I just go with the flow as what I do. So now it's March of nineteen forty-three. You've been drafted where did they send you next? Okay grass Kimmy in the army, and I reported at fort Maine, Maryland, I should my uniform took a physical and written their couple of days. And then they sent me to. Jefferson bags Missouri's for thirty days, the basic training I completed my basic training. I made a fortune main man on force engineers, driving bulldozers, graders carry all solid earthmoving equipment by Michelle, let's go to the jungles of the Pacific, those area, and the jungle billon airfield for aircraft land on. We used to go out and practice every day and inaccurate Anchorage. India. And I said, no, no, no. Let says for me. So I applied for cadet training is accepted there. Ten of us at took the exam nine whites and myself and two of us past and from there. They sent me to Jeff to case for fail boxy Mississippi for thirty days of basic training again. And from there, I went to ski. Always wanted to fly, did you have any experience doing so, before you joined the service, or was it just something you're always interested in? Yard one day up at mountain tower today. You and I saw this quite of forties, flying over, and I said, I'd like to do that one day, and that was it. Immediately fell in love. I love stories like that as a K. So you're down in Biloxi, you've gone through training there. What happens next? Bama. And there, I started I was in classification, and then classification manage the guy get a few rights in a cub. I guess I was to see if we have the aptitude to fly up Alpine's or not. And I guess I did. All right. I graduated. Anyway. I completed that training, and then I went to coma and training and primary training. I flew the PT nineteen. And sceptres in primary, I was in moten seal which was bright institute. Our instructors were black as their call today, then they were calling negro and searches for negro, and they conditioned us for the conditions or the things that what happened to it. When we really ski enemy airfield or under the instruction of rights. How would you describe the instructors, how tough were they how skilled were they what was it like to learn under their command? Such as with skill. No doubt about that. But they would call you all kinds of names trying to provoke you to do something so they can wash out the flying training program was designed for our failure. Everything we did add it had to be perfect. So they instructions instructors were looking for, for perfection and everything. We did. And so we had to perform well, you had to own up to what they wanted us to. And that's what we had to do. And that's what we did now to washout rate for white cadets at that time was running at sixty three percent first-class that went to Tuskegee who's forty percent. They says, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This will never happen again. So they made sure they had to wash out rate of seventy three percent or higher ten percent higher than the like it. So we lost a lot of good pilots. A lot of good ones and didn't have anything to do with their flying classroom. Adam, and graduation day wanna cadets had a spot on his trousers. They wash. About kernel panics was the wing commander at Tuskegee. He was white us from Kentucky. But he was on our side is behind the program. One hundred percent is to go to Montgomery, Alabama where they had flying school. He tell the commander over there. We wash out better pilots and you graduate over here, which was true. We lost a lot of good pilots, not because of flying. But just. The instructors just wanted to wash them out for some unknown reason didn't have anything to do with this lying. That is difficult to hear. I'm far more difficult to experience for going through all that excellent training. And then one spot looking for any reason legitimate or not to wash you out is extremely correct. How would you describe the feeling when he first got in the air as the pilot that it matched the enthusiasm you had as a boy, when he first saw those planes going overhead or ferry? Lined up, as I say all the stars lined up. I was into I was ready to go. Oh, off Wei went under the law blow down there. And it was everything I expected it to be. And I enjoyed it so well career. When did you graduate from to ski I graduated, I told her sixteenth nineteen forty four a second? Lieutenant and where did you go, then I say testing, and then when they sent us to welcome our South Carolina for combat training. And while borough they had paid for is and later switch to forty seven. Borough. We had to Mason trying to flying frying load other too, because we had to fly below radar some overseas. So on that don't hundred fighting. And. I completed my training in April of nineteen forty five and my bags. Fact in one are catching the train order Norfolk. Catch Petra ship over and join the group in Italy. And like I say that was in April forty five well gave up in may of forty five so I would have been on Icees so I didn't make. Actually Hitler, actually knew I was coming. But he, he quit when the getting was good, while he took himself out actually, but. You still saw the writing on the wall, when, you know, you're on your way. So. So what was your what was your attitude when he found out? I'm sure you were thrilled that the war was over what were your thoughts at the time say? All right. Guys say I go with the flow. It didn't matter to me that just go to my next stay for next time. But. I was disappointed. I didn't get to go over. I wanted to do my part over there, but I didn't get to go. Everything happens from reason. So. I just. A bullet I should say, pardon me. We're speaking with retired US air force Lieutenant Colonel James Harvey, the thirties, a veteran of World War, Two and the Korean war, and we'll talk a lot more about that when we come back on veterans grown. Right now. You can get both sprints unlimited plan and the all new Samsung. Galaxy S ten included for just thirty five dollars per month per line for five lines. All you need is approved credit and in eighteen month lease no trade in required. Visit sprint stores sprint dot com or call eight hundred sprint one who fifty dollars a month after twenty to fifty credit applied within two bills can't overly remain unbalanced doing limited six thirty twenty three to five with autopay day to where does Asian during additions be maximum. Restrictions apply. Hard-edged today veterans chronicles is retired air force Lieutenant Colonel James Harvey, the third veteran of World War Two and the Korean war member of the legendary to ski airmen, and sir, when you do all this training, your excited to take part in combat, you knew how well the rest of the red tails were doing. But as you're making your way to Europe, the war ends, and so what happened to you, and your unit after that. They semi gotten unseal Kentucky and there. They had the ninety ninth Krista squadron, which was part of the three thirty seconds. They had moved in ninety nine to on paper to until Kentucky, and they had forty seven air force. Plus they had four squadrons of be twenty five the bombs, squadrons, scare me. And a lot of people don't know, we had bomber squadrons ever deployed overseas. And I was at gunman field. Kentucky, the group was there from forty from forty three to forty six we needed a airfield with a longer runway. But no one want us in their backyard. So president Truman said will send them to lock Martin and commerce Ohio base was close. They open it up and put us all there. So we moved there in April forty six. And that was our home until were disbanded broken up and scattered all over the world and Joan the forty nine before that president Truman decided to desegregate the armed forces, what was your reaction to his decision at the time and what how did it change? What you were doing in the military been changed anything, what we were doing. It was good idea because running to our forces, it's very expensive. And so it was a good idea, very easy to just one and also in nineteen forty-nine you mentioned. That's when the TUs Gigi airfield was disbanded, but that's also the year that you and a few others from the red tails were sent to top gun explain what happened there on top gun thing. Chafer staff air force, Senator rector out. All the fighter groups United States in January of nineteen forty nine. Telling them to have. Competition within each group is between eight squatter and, and pick. Their is score three high scores to represent and one off that to represent their final group and the first ever top gun, weapons me to be held in Las Vegas Nevada, on may the twelfth nineteen forty nine glow. Three thirty second lead been Egland seven month prior. So we had scores, so based on scars captain temple of the three hundred fighter squadron. I attended Ari Stewart of the one hundred fighter squadron myself. The ninety nine fighter squadron or shows as primary members and attendant halibut Alexander of ninety nine as an alternate member. So I was on a team that represented the three thirty second fighter group before departure from long born for Vegas. We met. With our commander Colonel Benjamin o Davis, and we should sat it at all talk and, and is the remark was if you don't win, don't come back. No pressure. No pressure at all. No, none. Oh man. Okay. So describe going to Vegas and what the experience was like there. We took off heading Vegas, and we stopped out Paso, Texas. And it was supposed to have a dance to club that night. And wait landed. I understand they cancelled the dance and after they found out, we weren't going to stay on the base, we're going to go into town, like say, put the dance back on again. But I mean that's gonna their fan. We completed trip out innovativeness. And we ended. We had a our maintenance officer was also a pilot and the Tuskegee here, and he was land on between the rules committee and the him they fight a group and was supposed to give is input along with the other. Participants in the in the weapons me. And anyway, they didn't want to meeting. They didn't want to hear anything. He had to say he was a non entity. And when he got back from the meeting, the unless purple people, ask them how it went, and he told them in oh, they didn't want to hear anything. I had say that tick them off. Then when we landed we asked him out went, and he told us that take us off tonight. You have a tick off. Fire group. Anyway, we wanted to me, however, were never recognised the winners for forty years. Their forces sociation puts out a magazine one month, they put on not once a year they rather they put out an almanac. One of the items in their home, and are the winners of the nineteen forty nine weapons me through present day, I think today, it's called read fried and each year with us, and I came out the winner of the nineteen. Forty nine weapons may. No, no, no funny. Nineteen ninety three my commander Colonel way may Campbell. Call me and ask me if I need that on me, I know maybe Stewart did start star saying he didn't have it could probably find analysis. So let's out is looking for can present it to the air force as of nineteen ninety five June of nineteen ninety five is the three thirty second the winner of the nineteen forty nine weapon sleep forty six years. I know one I just didn't wanna recognize us as being the letter. We had a three foot solid silver trophy back dot loss lever lady in Atlanta, who's a an historian. She made your mission. Your client that she found the trophy and five days at Wright, Patterson air force base museum surgery Schweitzer, right, Pat, she saw the trophy. She suppliers in this on display. So we get a lot of items in the Kansas everything final never be on this way. Well, it is on this way. Five year fifty five years in Aichi. That's unbelievable. Talk a little bit about what was required to win. What were the drills the exercises? The mock combat or anything like that, that you need to excel that to win. Well, the were at twelve thousand eight area gun at twenty thousand feet. Dive bombing skip bombing. Rocket firing and panel thing they were the vents and. We'll leading and all events from start to finish. And there was one out. Me was if you board your team members takeoff Mascow is counted, York's or zero well after last event, which was panel strafing captain temple of our group was leading as high under get to trophies high individual I group temple is living though, but there was fifty one squadron who was close behind temple as far as high individual. The last event, we had a log on me. Please. We've made however, last e then, then in wanna see us take everything, not three thirty seconds by no means. So one of the peace, fifty one outed had to they gave another airplane right there. They groped the rule. His score was so high I think they get I think they gave him extra bullets. Anyway, he Jackson temple out of first place. Like I said, before I didn't wanna see us take everything you mention how determined you all were to win after how frustrated you all were with how you had been treated. So what was the feeling like when you emerge victorious? God way one way new, we're gonna win from the start. But we're on. On the F. We're flying the p forty seven obsolete aircraft but it was a good aircraft. We wanted to meet that our competitors frying fifty one and eighty twos. The latest aircraft. So we still under me, what are upset sleater crafts. But like I said it was a good aircraft and it's so good. It's very good winning that made way new the best in the airport approved their overseas and escorting. We were the best way prove that the weapons we were the best zero sister, nothing. Forty-nine obviously the year before the onset of the Korean war. It's also around the time you started flying jets. When did you first get into the cockpit of jet, sir? Okay. Broker group up and may am in yet of in may of nineteen forty nine scattered all over the world flock born, and in June of forty nine heading to masala Japan, but prior to our leaving a lot for, and they said are to a one file to the tumor, solid Japan. High say our Eddie, Drummond, and I from the ninth whether to going over together, they said are two one five to a one dollars picture. So the wing commander, masala, Japan, call pilots of the base sitter and throw them. There were these two NATO pilots coming in, and there'd be a signed, one of the squadron's. Well, a politics Toler system cells, they said, no way are we gonna fly with them? No way. Anyway. Kind of drumming I reported in the wing commander rents office talking. And he said. They want us to call you. Village organise? I, I said, well, first tenant any jump into the second Lieutenant about Lieutenant, Taibbi dramas. They said okay, but then he made a mistake. He said, we have three fighter squadrons on the base to p fifty one, squadrons, and our Neff eighty squadron, which is, which one do you wanna go to? I asked me, I said yet, so he put us in put us both in the same squadron their ninth fighter squadron, which is fine. Eighty now they did not have a thirty three. This is a jet trainer. An F eighty trainer but they didn't have an eighteen. Right. We flew in advance. So what they had us to put. I'll start with myself, I put me in the back seat of the six have made her. I couldn't see out. I hear my answer and the pilot up front. Get taxiing grants and such as ak- the lineup on the runway. He said, okay, you have it. So I would apply race. My brakes start my role. Take off the gear flaps mix control property. All good stuff. Then I'd flyer on doing the maneuvers. He wanted me to do. Contact ground control approach may live vacuuming info ending, I touchdown run Lang in the part of front with over two flights. What does that have to do a flying? The f eighty nothing. I think they want to see if we can. And we prove we could. So my introduction to the F, I enjoy the f eighty was a very good air for how different was it to have those, those big engines behind Jon stead of the, the planes, you had and in training? Training. Big edge it in front of us. Right. Crowd of that's why can't here today the the jets and they pay forty seven doing over your person you pulled this eighty jets was just pusher flight better pressure. It's all it's up to make them to maneuver it. Sally enjoy that art crafts. Very very, very well, I could tell I could tell how did you end up getting deployed to Korea? How did you find out? Soccer Japan for gunnery, and we got the word that the Korean softer is then invaded by nice tweet. So. Lately, put our stuff together in the headed for it is oops, Japan. We started flying missions out of it is looking very, nice day. And our first missions were top cover over. So while they evacuated civilians out of Seoul, we did that for two days, and they got all millions out. Then we started flying missions in the North Korea. All this training. You've been to top gun and one at topgun you've learned to fly jets, but now you're in combat for the first time, what was it like? To me policy was just another mission. Like I said he go the flow is a mission. That's the real stuff. So you do your best your here's for your training comes into play. What did that look like the do you have a specific strategy? If you came across a enemy aircraft, did you react to what they were doing and try to figure out what the best way to get the hand was what was your strategy? Did you was who? Survive. Anyway. I only saw one enemy aircraft, my oh, honored and twenty six missions that I flew and I, I was on a safety mission striking this town. And I pull up and I saw this aircraft enemy aircraft off to the right. He was heading north toward North Korea. And I pulled him behind him like I say than strafing this town, pro by trigger twice, and no more bullets. Got rid of most of my on on this town anyway. I did see some white stuff coming from the base of his wings where fits it as a few so odds. So I assumed it was feel anyway, he just kept flowing and I'll fire north. He got I do not know. But I was my only experience and shooting at another craft the mission for what you were awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross. Oh, no. No. That was another. That makes it I then on a bombing mission town up at North Korea. And I still had all Miami initiative. In fact, my whole flight that I was leading there were four of us and on our way back, we had this call that a. I'm gonna make group was pinned down by about twenty five hundred enemy and they needed help. Ceilings were down around eight hundred see so before of down. No. Samatar. We did we add to do and came back to Japan. A couple of weeks later. We got a notice that father, thank you, rather. And that Leah kill twenty five hundred of the enemy. So we sell good about that. All the four of us at a lot of damage. It's so casually. We did what we had to do. Obviously, it was recognized as something far more than that. So. Do you look at it as something that had to be done just based on training, kicking in what do you, what do you remember thinking at different points of that mission? Think about on a mission like that is doing what you have to destroy the enemy, period. That's it. Then you do your best. Then you leave your finding an aircraft nearly call. Reload get ready for another mission. Like to be recognized as the first African American ever to fly a jet in combat. Here again. We don't think much about it. That's what the book say history books, fine. That's great. It's good to be recognized. That's for sure. And I enjoy it like anybody else would but at the time it doesn't register just doing my mission. So my job. It was less than eight years from the time that you were rejected from the air corps for being African American and less than a decade later. Your flying jets in combat in a desegregated military. Did you think about that at all? I ever think about that. Never did. Not in that order. No. What was your reaction when the armistice was announced in Korea? Wow. I said, good deal. I was back in the states then, but I said, good deal, say, the war started, and I think it was the twenty fifth of September and forty three and was over in. Of what fifty two or something like that? But anyway, I came back to the states back to Japan in April of no, I left Japan in April of. The following year went to victims L, California, and the, the ninety nine spider squadron. I mean, the ninety four th fighter squadron, Invicta Vel, California, and there, I started flying f ninety six and I was there for three years and. From bases after that, but I was just doing my job. That's all I ever thought about just doing my job. The best thing that retired in nineteen sixty five why did you decide to retire then? Side air force beside for reserve officer. And as such, they gave me a separation date of the thirty first of may of nineteen sixty five showing that day rolled around. I was out, but that prior to getting out family and fade. So I was looking for a job and I retired in Madison, Wisconsin. And at that time that was a home office. Oscar mayer. And they were hiring silent in interview. And they said you hired on the wanna go to work. I said, well, I retired thirty first of may and I wake off. I said, okay report, the seventh Joe's, so I did and her and I retired from Oscar nineteen sixty. That's how I ended up in Denver. Oscar mayer. So I had known that I wanted to come to Denver the distribution center manager and they made it happen. And I was the first black center manager without screamer. Stick setting setting history. In a lot of different places in your life, sir, obviously, when the Tuskegee airmen started in the nineteen forties, there were largely looked down upon. What's it like so many years later to have the group B so revered in this country? Feels good. I can't deny that putting any get the recognition we have. But when the group came back from overseas and forty five they put a class Keisha, top secret on the dusky airman, that classification was on until nineteen ninety five in the movie that Tuskegee airman came out. And that was the classification came off just two years. And I didn't want the public to know about the airman because it was too successful and. I just didn't want us to not be known. Like wasn't supposed to be that way. No way. The army work college report of nineteen twenty five spelled out just how we were, and we weren't able to do anything like fly airplanes, talking about that day at the congressional rotunda, US capitol. When the ski Gejerman received the gold medal. Very, very nice there about three hundred ninety five of us fair. That's cunning with not very many. They original test that year. But. Very nice award. And President Bush solicitous. Hey, said this is for all of those that were never returned which was I appreciated that very nice because in those days, we didn't have sloth returned because of our color, the right this to people did not have, what could, you know. So would you who could you complain to nobody? So anyway, that's water, another berates, but it was very good feeling. Very good. Career is so distinguished, you've made history and a number of ways your top gun champion you and your crew. So there's so much to be proud of. But when you think of at all all those years and service to our country. What are you most? Proud of. Doc on lettuce mate. That's what I'm most proud of. And it's another feather campus from that they kicking airman is concerned. It's like I said before the best source as, as starting back to country have competition Malala fighter groups United States best there. What else? We've proved we're the best and he set the standard for all the top gun competitions to follow. So it's an incredible legacy. Sir your own, as well as those of the Tuskegee airmen. Thank you so much for your service to our country. Thank you so much for your time with us today, we greatly appreciate it. Retired US air force Lieutenant Colonel James Harvey, the third veteran of World War Two and the Korean war, a member of the legendary to ski airman. I'm Greg rumba. This is veterans chronicles. The Starlight lounge presents an evening with the progressive box move. Here. That's go tickling the ivories. He just saved by bundling home and auto progressive gonna finally by ring for that gal of yours. Hugo, send condolences. This nice to free. There's. In my. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Discounts on available in all states or situations. What? So you just bought a house. Bad news is your one step closer to becoming your parents. You'll proudly mold along and give anybody noticed you mowed the lawn. Tell people to stay off the lawn. Compare it to your neighbor's lawn and complain about having to mow the lawn again. Good news is, it's easy to bundle home and auto through progressive, and save on your car insurance, which of course, we'll go right into the lawn. Progressive casualty insurance company affiliates and other insurers discount not available in all states or situations.
Bob Lonsberry Show 06-09-20 Hr 2
"Downtown Sunny and sixty seven degrees I'm Alexa. Olson Newsradio am eleven eighty next news at nine thirty breaking news. What happens anytime another hour? Bob Lonzo very starting right now on Newsradio laminating. Thank you so much ma'am. I appreciate that Good Morning Americans Dan hello my friend. It is a delight to be here with you. We're to two to eleven eighty, one, eight, hundred, two nine five eleven eighty Lavelle, appreciate your call and good morning and welcome to news radio CAM eleven eighty. Five Good Morning. How are you good sir good? That's good I. I. Just wanted to call just to Kinda. Make reference to a special day today today is June ninth, which marks the one hundred and twenty first year anniversary of that Frederick Douglass Statue being record here in the city. A lot of folks don't know. Folks. Pretty much the history that came about it with. The statue and how it came about. Our connection's bad lavelle. Back. Yes sure. Oh, good, yeah! It's the the the statue. Haven't try again. You know like you're talking to your relatives in. Disconnections now good, he'll call back at South Avenue and this. This move came about because of money that was gotten by Harry Bronson. I wanted to move downtown where I thought it had more viewership, but he is moved at Harry Bronson out of the bowl at highland park up against South Avenue and If you're driving south on south, avenue of like from highland, hospital and from you know the rec center where Frederick Douglass lived for a time, it's very nice. It's a nice approach looks pretty cool, but that statue. Has a wonderful wonderful A. And is an internet insist miss might sound like an overstatement, but it's an internationally significant piece of art. I'm sorry. lavelle this connection but better. Much better by. It tell us about the the statue in the anniversary place. Yes, so yeah, you hit the nail riding ahead I. mean at that specific moment. A hundred and twenty one years ago, eighteen ninety nine June night, the entire country in world was on Rochester new. York because of that statue and the people that were involving together just wasn't just one race one group. It was everybody within the community of Rochester. Who's who everyone wanted to pitch in and help and get this statue up and running a lot of things that that Kinda was tripping it up, and and and you know causing a delay install, but overall when it was up Ya Theodore Roosevelt here in the city over ten thousand people downtown, how? Altogether. Celebrating prejudice in that statue, so it was a great moment during that time, and a lot of things came from that moment and I think a lot of people. If we look back during that time, the early nineteen, hundred, seeing the unity amongst blacks and whites in Rochester when you lynchings going on all throughout the country, we were the example of. Relations and how? We could do something together, so I just wanted to get that out there. Let's. Let's talk about it for her second patient. You know what about the new location? Think go check it out. We'll take a look at the statue. It's a great days ago. Celebrate you know here's The let's listen to bouncing ideas and thoughts about that I. Wish I memorized, but there was a quote from the mayor at the time at the dedication. And he said first of all this was the first heroic statue, which means like large life side size of big impressive. It was the first to roic statue of an African. American ever done. And very significant as a consequence, but the mayor sad that it was a statement about Rochester that this city would put a statue of a black man in very heart in its busiest place and any. Of Brotherhood and I again. That's a huge thing it was started by. Maybe you remember the man's name. It was started by a variety of people, but the guy got behind. It was a gentleman who has local pullman porter and he organized initially like A. Local African Americans some of whom. My great great grandfather John W Thomson is that right? Well, so it wasn't for. My family is very very connected to that statue does not just him? It's also h of green was also very prominent as well so they were, he was agents Greenleaf was older, but he was definitely a contributor, but we're just connected to those two lineage and J W, my great great grandfather, but he was just more than just the power, the hotel manager, which is what they. Talk about amongst the me of he was a straight up activist nationally known. Recognized work with Booker T. Washington worked at the fredge other worth a lot of prominent black and white Americans during that time, so he was very very bowling and and I I recommend anyone read his book the off the offensive. biography of Frederick Douglass Monument. Check it out, read it. Where is it by him? What's it called? What's the name of the book? The authentic history of the Frederick Douglass money. It's like a documentary book from like back in Nineteen. Hundred. Who who wrote it? J W Thompson and that's your an answers to yours. Yes my great-great-grandfather yesterday. Say I'm writing that down J W about that dedication day. Forgive me, Did Booker T. Washington come because he was like huge until like I. think he'd died Nineteen fifteen or something like that. Do you know if? You did not come, he was he actually wrote a letter and it's in the book. He wrote a letter apologizing that he could not make, but he was very. You know they were all they were connected. They were friends and They formed the the here. We had a federal Douglas committee where Frederick was actually on that committee, and you know a lot of folks like you know Brooke and they were involved. They you know cheat. Unfortunate couldn't make it that day. Did Uh did any of Frederick Douglass family? Come like his sons or anything like that? Yup. Oldest son, who was and that's another thing. I'm reading it like prejudice. Son was well involved in. You know in government as well. He had government jobs. Bring what have you? But he was very vocal and getting some getting financing done because at the last minute they were having trouble raising money, and unfortunately J W Thompson was getting criticized by not having it on a specific date, and so Frederick Douglass son stepped up. You know and and blasted this This newspaper about you know their inability to. Understand like hey. He's trying to raise over ten thousand dollars in nineteen hundred, trying to raise ten thousand dollars contributed it. was started. By you know your your your relative in this other gentleman, and and they got you know is the local African. American community they raised money got contributions, they got a certain point got tough, and then it was okay. We're going to have to advocate with other folks. You mentioned Teddy Roosevelt and the governor then but it was so the state of New York came in in a variety of national interests, all all committed to the to the memory of this great man. Yes! Yes, it was a great time in history. We should go back and we can learn so much just from that moment. Both Frederick Douglass Sons! Were there at dedication to you know. There's no I just I just know of his sons, and all of his kids was there his ex wife, but his. You know his wife. Miss Brag his widow she was. There Susan B. Anthony. I mean the WHO's who all packed that Churchill and Fisher Street for funerals and The the school of what's Hoxha is that where the Hochstein school is now right? Yeah, Yup all marched the march through the city and just had a great. Because! They've changed because they've. The streets of changed. Where was the statue? originally compared to like things we would know today. Do you know? So the first, the first location was going to be the central Central Park area over actually by Saint Paul in Clinton. Actually that's where they were going to put it and then they ended up putting it at Frederick Douglass Park. We're fresh dogs. Park is today, so he put it there, and then where is Frederick Douglass Park. There during that time on what they what they call. It is Frederick Douglass Park. Moved from there to highland, which that was the original where we're actually highland here. Here's the unfortunately. They moved at Highland Park in nineteen, forty, one, which right probably was might have been. Racism is nine hundred forty. One is when they're. They're the the first time that there were I. WanNa say race riots, but they were demonstrations that people got carried away because the Roosevelt Administration's in effect said no black people can work in defense factories them saying. Demonstrations change that by the end of forty one, but coincidently when that was happening the city of Rochester. You know stuck it out at at the bullet, but it was right at the main train station downtown, right? Everybody trailed by train. Then, of course you got off the train in Rochester and you were greeted by this. Frederick Douglass Statue or thing. You say right now by going to highland, though it wasn't a bad place, though, because again, Freddy Douglas Widow. Originally because that's where he lives, so highland park was actually one of the first official places that they want. Mr Moore from the county during that time, but the guy sits on the pedestal right now during a at a Genesee Valley Park. Which is true, which was true? He said the reason why I didn't WanNA. Do It highland Parkinson's? Whereas whereas I location was until they moved up to south now, so there's a lot. There's a lot of stuff with so hopefully. You know by a weekend Kinda. Get more people to look into. You know. Yeah, yeah it, it honestly is a wonderful thing, and and Frederick, Douglass was completely worthy of it and I. It's funny thing in I'm of course no expert. Expert on on on history especially African Americans we arousal else like that but Frederick. Douglass was such a seminal figure in an he paved the way for his two successors booker, T. Washington w Washington WBZ BE Boyce and they created the you know the modern world as we understand it of people standing up and saying hold, it equals equal. Let's get after it know. Anyway, we can talk all day about it. Statue next I can take a commercial break, and then I'm going to look up and try to find a copy of that book so I can buy it right. On Amazon Amazon for two ninety nine. Go ahead and. Click Oh. Yeah the offerings. Is the authentic history of the Frederick Douglass Memorial that the neighbor. Yup All right all right. Thanks for calling stood. It sent me an email. Bob Lingerie DOT com. We ought to get together sometime. Garlic of stature some. Oh of course anytime. I'd really like by pleasure all right. You Take Care You, Betcha by now it is A. It's a weird deal because today I. Want I air my notes. One of the things I want to talk about was Booker T. Washington who had a life philosophy, which I have tried to teach my children, and which I wonder as we are currently in a stage of our history where it's like okay, we've got to. To do something more. We've got to get closer to our dream of equality here And how do we do it? I was thinking recent days. Some of the the the writings and and perspectives of life philosophy of Booker T. Washington Ya to my personal background and culture are a great way forward for anybody. We'll talk about that later. In the show, this is Newsradio wham eleven eighty. His Daughter Day a copy of quote and authentic history of the Douglas. Monument. A biographical facts and incidents in the life of Frederick Douglass. Very quickly on the subject of Booker. T. Washington may be. We'll talk more about him later. His seminal book I think he wrote twelve at the one for which he is best remembered was up from slavery, and I recognize that subsequent African American thinking has kind of pushed booker. T. Washington to the side but I know that for my personal cultural background and for the way. I've tried to raise my children. I think his principles are the best for any person or any people seeking to grow and build. What for Booker T. Washington taught. was that the way for African Americans to advance in American society, and he was probably the preeminent African American leader in the United States from eighteen ninety to about nineteen fifteen. He was a at the death of Frederick Douglas to his own death. I'm a little boy in slavery. Booker T. Washington was, but he said. That, education. And business were the ways forward that you should If you WANNA be a successful person, you need to get an education and your education should probably be. He kind of created and ran and define the TUX TUSKEGEE institution. but the the. Booker T. Washington view was you should gain a skill and education that allows you to do a thing that allows you to be an entrepreneur that allows you to have your own business. Maybe your business businesses, you know. I have a particular trade i. make shoes or I, you know, make barrels around, or whatever else I'm an accountant or I'm a doctor or whatever but I have a thing that I can do that makes me either a very desirable employees or more, even better that makes me my own boss. Booker T. Washington believed that when you. Can generate money of your own earning by the acquisition of skills it both in terms of a trade, and in terms of how to be a business person that when you as a person do that, then you have power and prominence, senior community in the way for an individual or for a group of individuals, gain, power and prominence in a community is through. Earning it. That way? No one can take it from you. It is. It is yours and his concept of how to build people. was based on that I've done it short shrift a very good job, but acquire a skill. That allows you to be independent. Maybe run your own business. Have Your own profession. That's what I have taught my kids if you can do that, that's the way to a stable life. That will will bring you. To a place that's better off than where you started the book is called up from slavery, and it's a well worth reading one of the great American histories back with you after the LEX. Also newscast on Newsradio wham eleven eighty. Walking on Sunshine. Let me just say this. I know that you believe in yourself and you're very very positive, but you actually can't walk on sunshine okay, so don't let the dumb ass. Retake you over up at the house. family's pretty excited for the last it's it's been more than two years My wife and the kids have wanted to like. Get new carpet in the. The living room and get a a couch I mean like a giant Winnebago of a couch that starts over here and goes over there and turns and goes up here. A hopscotches over here turns over. Here has a sticky out thing and goes over there and reclines him saying it's like a whole room. Sit Anywhere. You want just collapse and you'll be somewhere on this couch, right? So it they. They've been thinking about that dreaming about that for a couple of years alright. we've been cleaning out the living room the last few days. this morning. The new carpet comes in meaning. The old carpet goes out. Kids will be watching. Pictures will be taken. WHO's an is will be heard the new carpet beautiful spectacular dot. That gave the dog out. An and tomorrow comes the giant Winnebago of a couch. and. I don't think we'll be able to get them off it for probably the rest of the summer. Jim Saying no it. The the couch couch has a special cupholder built by my wife wherein she says all the remotes will go. I'll believe that when I see it. Modified is where is the remote you you walk it. Where is the remote numbers to two to eleven? Eighty Virginia I'm glad you called the smell and welcome to news. Radio Ham eleven eighty. Good morning to you as well I have a question for you and I'm hoping you help me. Answer it. Frederick Douglass Statue. It's Stay tuned a lot of history. Which is wonderful. But I'm wondering why all the other statues that we have here that have a lot of history. Had either been taken down are not down. Why is that which ones? Oh several of them. Robert Lee I think it was. New Rochester New York has never had a statue of Robert E Lee. We re men from Rochester New York went down, south to have a war against Robbie Lee. We We never liked him or what he stood for. It's part history regardless. Him Hitler's Party history to. True they true, but we are able to read about it and see it, and whatever it is story regardless of whether it's good or bad and I think every individual has a right to probably talking about like down. South where they have removed statues of people associated with the confederacy or Philadelphia here a couple of weeks ago where they took down the statue, a mayor associated with. Police brutality talking about correct Yep Yep well I I'm not here to defend the statues of other people. That's not my history. It's not my heritage is not my thing there's a a little bit of a connection that's in the news right now and it's. It's a funny thing. some in. Is You know we say black lives matter, and that becomes like shorthand for the entire sort of push for racial equity, or whatever that's going on now and there are you know aspects of political correctness in it? There are a lot of things happening simultaneously. It. One thing that's come out of this is that there is a push to change the name of semra several United States Army installations. which are named after a confederate generals? and and and here's the deal I I'm a I'm a conservative I. Don't like to change things and the names of army forts have really over decades and generations to include like World War Two those names of army forts have become almost sacred four their current application us. You know when you went to four Jackson, or when you went to Fort Bragg When you went to Fort. Belvoir you were. You know going to a place that you sorta sanctified by what you did there, and where you went and served from their Bob so I'm you know there's a part of me that says I hate to change the names for? Brag should always be for Brag. home of the airborne homer, the eighty second airborne eighteenth, Airborne Corps, the special forces so much cool stuff down there. But at the same time I remember like when I first went in the army. You know thinking as I start to learn the names of forts it was. Why the hell did we name flirts? After our enemies, right? These are all people we we beat. These are these are all people who raised the sword and the gun against the flag of the United States right and these you know these typically aren't even the better ones of their generals. How the freight we do this well. Here's the story not to be a jerk and I'm not trying to be partisan, but in the era of As the Democrats. Retook control of the federal government after the years of reconstruction, you have to think a president grover Cleveland out of Buffalo First Democrat after the civil war and he he had two separate terms, and then it was Woodrow Wilson the next Democrat, and the deal is that at that point? The Democrat Party was very much a southern party. GROVER CLEVELAND was. Was Not a racist and he was very clearly not racist. He however just lot of southern behind Wilson was a racist through and through, but the deal is that while the military was there and they thought well This will help us, you know. Make friends with the south. We will show them that bygones are bygones, and so under these democratic presidents. really kind of trying to assuage their southern Abass. They named and you know the Democratic Party was the party of the confederacy. You know they, so they named these forts, confederate generals and It would be sad to lose the sentimentality attached to those names because they had those names, and you know for you know fifty, and whatever years and sixty and seventy in some one hundred but you know the the folks who are raising the stink. The the it they to raise a very good point they say well. We've named these forts after people who fought for the confederacy, and that's offensive and racist and I go well, that certainly can be you know that your view and you know but but but the deal is that these are people who fought against the United States why the Hell of we named American forts after people who broke their oath most of them were officers of of the United States Army. They broke their oath. They took up the sword against the flag of the United States of America and we beat them on the field of battle. with with the new forts the when they come up with new names, the only thing I would say is that I fear the just as it was the political correctness of that day that named the forts after confederate generals I fear that the political correctness of this day with name the forts after whoever it is, we arbitrarily decide our heroes today. I think that for may be should be named after people who, over the long scope of history have proven to be great military leaders and inspiring by their example, so at any rate that's a tangent but if we're going to change things from the past, and if we do change the name before it's I, don't think that'll happen under trump, but you know the polls show. Trump, you know. I hope it doesn't work out this way, but trump may not be present all that much longer. If there's Democrat administration, they'll change. The name of these forts not just hope that they take the long view. Andy. It's a truly a significant storm. Figures of military nature as opposed to you know the politically correct list of of of names it diversity and variety of course, but Let's not just kiss the hind end of political correctness. Let's also kissed. The hind end of of long-term military is significant example there is no Ford Eisenhower. There is no Fort Grant to the greatest generals. The Republicans ever had I think there is a Fort Douglas I I can't think where it is, but a a four Benjamin o Douglas wasn't he the first African American General Officer? His son went onto also be general officer. They're they're absolutely ought to be a a for Benjamin Douglas Banney. Way I I should shut up boy past the break. Your calls are next on Newsradio wham eleven eighty. Four to two to eleven eighty is our number one eight, hundred, two nine five eleven eighty Michael. Thanks for phoning services. newsradio wham eleven eighty. I was listening to you. Make that comment about both of Washington about you know his characters principles and how to be a productive African American society. Speaking I- Guy Person, but he he was four. Principles good fall. Please go ahead, sir. Right, but then I was thinking about Tulsa Oklahoma how there was a black Wall Street area that be no African Americans. We're trying to sell up by their bootstraps and all the whole. The whole area was disseminated predicated on racial. I don't know I don't really think about this Tulsa Oklahoma Okay. Look it up. Yeah Tulsa, Oklahoma. Look up to look up the term Black Wall Street's research that and see how that area was disseminated predicated on racial lines, and how if the police were ever in our corner? How come nothing ever occurred or justice is served due to that particular tragedy? In you? Know. What happened nineteen twenty not that long ago. All the bladder years has yeah. Nineteen air. Here's another example for you. Nineteen seventy-one New York's Brad couple moves into Rosedale Queens neighborhood and are forced out predicated or racial injustice or racial prejudice yet I. Queen. I'm not. I'm not paying. Back! Back in Tulsa. Let's go back to Tulsa OK. Okay, let's go back to talk. I looked up here. Think people should. I did this what you said. Google Black Wall Street. And Very interesting stories I mean I'm scanners right now? pussy. That's this then. Whole White, America, who's acting the part of this country day? One don't even know. Yet you guys have all these opinions on how we should conduct, that's. How we hold ourselves up and get education, but there's a history in America. Look at the school sitting. In his mind, not knowing about. Tulsa. Twenty one black kids just trying to get a decent education in this much. So. There's there's plenty of examples of racial inequality racial injustice in this country that we have to endure not to mention here is black people that contribute. Countless. How wish qualities. To improve. The quality of American life like. TRAFFIC LIGHTS FOR INSTANCE! CREATED BY BLACK MAN RIGHT! Thing about who radio examples like this one thing I always think about to these I think about the very structures of the White House and the Capitol building. Our! To the laws and legislation and individual work. I look at those structures and I think all of the white. House and most of the capital were built by slave labor. You know. The wealthy get a good example, and that's that's the thing that we have to endure in this country. How we help build also won. Let me give you one other thing. Honey. Give you one other thing all right. You know there's a story about dolley Madison, when the British and the war of eighteen twelve burn the White House and dolley Madison. saves that big giant Gilbert Stuart Portrait of George Washington. Yes, I think that was an. In correlation of Christmas addicts being sat doing the world. Know that Christmas addicts was the Boston massacre, one of the first people to fall in the war for independence was Christmas addicts a black man on the streets of of Boston. No, the deal was that Dahlie Madison is she thinks about the painting Oh. Yes, the painting, but it was actually saved by a black man. who was I I. Hate the Word Server I gotta run Sir Thank. Michael thanks for telling me about that Tulsa. Thing I'm grateful to read that and learn more about that and again if you do just what he said, Google Black Wall Street and there are. Good? Looks like well written stories pop up any rate. It was a black man who carried the picture of. George Washington to safety my well. Ban a Dolly's idea but. It takes it takes more than idea to get something done. It took a courageous man. And that's how the painting actually practically as a practical matter got saved, we will stop after that. We'll have news with great Alexa Olson on newsradio eleven eighty.
Black Sparrow and Buffalo Soldiers
"Since colonial times African Americans have fought in America's wars in every war. In fact, the first person to die in the revolutionary war Crispus. Addicts was black black soldiers put their lives on the line for a country that for centuries in slaved segregated and discriminated against them until the Korean war black served in segregated units under racist leadership and were often relegated to labor and service units, despite the continuous discriminatory treatment that denied blacks full participation in America's military efforts these brave men and women lived lives that deserve to be remembered. My name's moxy. And this is your brain on facts. Possibly the best known. All black military unit comes with a bit of a mystery in its history. They were called buffalo soldiers though, there are competing reasons as to why in eighteen sixty six and active. Congress created six all black peacetime regiments later, consolidated into four the ninth and tenth cavalry. And the twenty fourth and twenty fifth infantry initially the buffalo soldier regiments were commanded by whites with blacks being forbidden from holding the ranks assors these troops often faced extreme racial prejudice. From the army establishment, many officers, including George Armstrong Custer of boo and a his there refused to command black regiments. Even though it costs them promotions. Further black troops could only serve west of the Mississippi River because many whites didn't want to see armed black men near their communities. It even sometimes happened that the buffalo soldiers suffered deadly violence at the hands of civilians. The buffalo. Soldiers main duty was to support the nation's westward expansion by protecting subtler 's building roads and other infrastructure and guarding the US mail. They served at a variety of posts in the southwest in Great Plains taking part in most of the military campaigns during the decades long Indian wars during which they compiled a distinguished record with eighteen buffalo soldiers awarded the medal of honor. We don't have time today to dwell on the irony of African American soldiers fighting native people on behalf of government that accepted neither group as equals. The exceptional performance of these soldiers helped to overcome resistance to the idea of black officers paving the way for the first African American graduate from West Point Henry o flipper who will hear more about later buffalo soldiers played significant roles in many other military actions. They took part in defusing the little known eighteen ninety two Johnson county war in Wyoming, which pitted small farmers against wealthy ranchers and band of hired gunman. They also fought in the Spanish American and Philippine American wars and played a key role in maintaining border security during the high intensity military conflict along the US Mexico border during the Mexican revolution in nineteen eighteen the tenth cavalry fought at the battle of almost Nagales where they assisted in forcing the surrender of the Mexican federal militia forces discrimination played a role in diminishing the buffalo soldiers involvement in. Upcoming major conflicts during World War One the racist. Policies of president Woodrow Wilson among whose claims to infamy include segregating federal offices, led to black regiments being excluded from the American expeditionary force and placed under French command for the duration of the war. The first time ever that American troops were placed under the command of a foreign power. Then prior to World War Two the ninth and tenth cavalry regiments were essentially disbanded and most of their troops moved to service roles. However, the ninety second infantry division known as the buffalo division did see combat during the invasion of Italy, while another division that included the original buffalo soldiers of the twenty fifth infantry regiment fought in the Pacific theater. The last segregated US. Army regiments were disbanded in nineteen fifty one during the Korean war and their soldiers integrated into other units. There was an episode of mash about that enough. You saw it where a CO was sending his black soldiers on the most dangerous details in hopes of getting rid of them bonus. Super tangent fact, mash ran nearly four times longer than the main fighting in the Korean conflict. I say main fighting because the conflict was paused with the armistice, but not officially ended until recently even with the show still in reruns. The Korean war is considered the forgotten war since since the least remembered in American history. Back on track. Though, why were these troops called buffalo soldiers? There are differing theories regarding the origin of the nickname one. Is that the plains Indians who fought the soldiers thought that their dark curly hair resembled, the firm the buffalo? Another is that their bravery and ferocity and battled reminded the Indians of the way, Buffalo's fought whatever the reason the soldiers considered the name high praise as buffalo were deeply respected by the native peoples of the Great Plains eventually the image of buffalo became part of the tenth cavalry's regimental crest. Five million Americans served their country in uniform during World War One including two million, deployed overseas. More than three hundred fifty thousand African Americans served or World War One, overcoming racial, hostilities. These men demonstrated through their service, a love of country and the importance of equality. The paradox of African Americans fighting on the frontlines in France was clear, they defended America's freedom abroad, while being denied rights at home all of the civil war ended fifty years before World War One began racial discrimination was common through most of America. Jim crow laws enforced, a culture segregation African Americans faced prejudice from their white counterparts in the service and in civilian communities near stateside, military bases. Eugene shock Woollard may have been the six thousand nine hundred and fiftieth French military pilot during his wings. During World War One. But he's remembered as history's very first African American aviator, the twenty one year old volunteer graduated from flight training in may of nineteen seventeen after spending more than twelve harrowing months fighting in the French army on the western front. One of nearly three hundred US citizens to serve in Francis. Burgeoning air corps prior to America's entry to the war Bulaq was essentially assigned to the famous Lafayette flying corps. Although never earning. The distinction of ace large still one many of his adopted country's highest military decorations, including the Lee Joan d'honneur the middle military and liquidity gear despite his acclaim in France who lard received virtually no recognition in America worse after returning to the states as a wounded combat veteran and aviation trailblazer. He died broke in obscurity in his teens young Eugene who was part creek Indian left behind a life of racial, segregation and hopped to transatlantic steamer bound for Europe. He eventually landed in Paris where he made a living as a prize fighter within weeks of Germany's nineteen fourteen invasion of France who lard enlisted like other non native volunteers he was assigned to a French foreign legion regiment where he served with distinction as a machine gunner during nineteen fifteen his twenty three thousand men unit. It was decimated. Suffering more than fifty percent casualties. And lard was transferred to the celebrated one hundred seventy th infantry regiment and sent to the battle of done. Wounded in the opening weeks of the epic ten month. Clash who lard was pulled from the line to recuperate. In October nineteen sixteen Velarde signed on with the French air service and began flight training by the following year. He was piloting spots and reports with the ninety third Esca drill against German warplanes over the verdone sector, a capable aviator who lard quickly earned the nickname, the black swallow of death and Oman to his former regiment as the one seventieth were known as the Iran del dilemma what the swallows of death. Heralded as the only black pilot of the war and a decorated one at that he enjoyed notoriety in the French press following America's entry into the war who lard applied for a transfer to the nascent US army flying corps. That was assembled in France. Spoiler alert the American military rejected him because of his race Velarde continued to fly with the French air service, but was eventually returned to the infantry after striking a superior officer while on leave. He served out the rest of the war in the rear echelon with his old unit. The one seventieth. Following the armistice who lard worked as a jazz, drummer and owned his own bar named less Gujral in reference to his wartime flying, jazz legends and celebrities frequented the club in the nineteen twenties. Buhler married into a wealthy French family and had two children the marriage ended in nineteen thirty five in thirty nine who lard offered his services to France. Again, this time recording the comings and goings of the nightclubs German patrons when Hitler's panzers rolled into France in may of nineteen forty the middle aged Velarde joined the French army in time to see action, but was grievously wounded in defense of Orleans as the country fell to the Nazis who lard was evacuated to Spain and eventually repatriated to the United States still recovering from his injuries. Malarde scratched out a meagre living as a perfume salesman and nightwatchman few in America knew or cared about his legendary exploits. When the war was over the French government offered him compensation for his lost business and his injuries. But he remained in New York. This children. In nineteen forty nine who lard was fond of more than a dozen people attacked by a mob in Peekskill New York while waiting to get into a concert. The fifty four year old war hero being beaten by two. Policemen was even captured on film a few years later who lard briefly returned to France for the fortieth anniversary of the first World War where he received a hero's. Welcome was named to the legion of honor and made a guest of the French military commemoration back in New York who lard worked as an elevator operator. He died of stomach cancer in nineteen sixty one of the age of sixty six eventually his service was more properly acknowledged the air force granted Willard, an honorary commission of second. Lieutenant. While Eugene Bulaq is remembered for being the first African American fighter pilot in history. He isn't the first black combat aviator that honor goes to on that Ali collected of the Ottoman air service. Born in eighteen eighty three in Izmir Turkey to African parents almond joined the Turkish navy in nineteen oh four four years later. He went to the naval academy and was made an officer in nineteen fourteen. He enrolled in flight school and the came pilot in the autumn and air corps in nineteen sixteen. Unfortunately, most details of his record as a combat flyer are unclear the first black flyer for the British empire was likely that Jamaican-born William Robinson Clark dubbed, the pilot of the Caribbean by the RAF that might be the most solid pun. I've heard this week. According to the Royal aero club trust, the UK, the twenty two year old aircraft mechanic turned aviator earned his wings sometime in April of nineteen seventeen predating Goulard's may fifth the registration by at least five days, according to Jamaican. Sources Clark was one of a handful of black pilots from the West Indies to serve in the British air force during the war. When the African American national guard soldiers of New York's fifteenth infantry regiment arrived in France, December nineteen seventeen they expected to conduct combat training and enter the trenches of the western front right away. They couldn't have been more wrong. They were ordered to unload supply ships for their first few months in France. Joining the mass of supply troops known as stevedores working long hours in the port more than half of those deployed in Europe were assigned to labor and stevedore battalions given tasks that many army leaders saw as most appropriate like building, roads bridges and trenches in support of the frontline troops in the port of Saint Nazaire. The New York national guard soldiers learned that they would work to prepare the docks and rail lines to be a major port of entry for the hundreds of thousands of soldiers yet to arrive, according to the two thousand three book Harlem's health fighters, quote, I Pershing would have a source of cheap labor second. He wouldn't have to worry about what to do with the black soldiers, particularly when he might have to mix them with white troops. They had no place to put the regiment recalled infantry captain Hamilton fish in the book, it weren't going to put us. In a white division, not nineteen seventeen. Anyway. So our troops were sent in to supply and service as laborers delay railroad tracks. This naturally upset are men tremendously. The regiment's. Best advocate was their commander. Colonel William Hayward. Hayward argued his case in a letter to general Pershing, outlining the regiment's mobilization and training and followed up immediately with a personal visit to Pershing's headquarters. He would bring with him the regiment's most formidable weapon in swing public opinion the regimental band lauded as one of the finest in the entire expeditionary force. While the regiment, literally laid the tracks for the arrival of the two million troops deploying in France, the regimental band toured the region performing for French and American audiences at rest centers hospitals with three hundred sixty ninth band was unlike any other performance audiences seen or heard before the regimental band is credited with introducing jazz to France during the war after some three months of labor constructing nearby railways to move supplies. The soldiers learned that they had orders to join the French sixteenth division for three weeks of combat training. They also learned they had a new regimental number as the renamed three hundred sixty ninth infantry, regiment, not that it mattered much to them. They still carry their nickname from New York the black Rattlers while the three hundred sixty ninth infantry would become part of the US army's ninety second infantry division. It would be assigned to fight with French forces. This solve the dilemma for Pershing and. The American expeditionary forces of what to do with the African American troops. The unit was effectively given to the French army. The black troops would see combat, but alongside French soldiers who were already accustom to variety of races ethnicities serving in the ranks of their colonial troops, which is I guess a tiny sliver of silver lining to imperialism. The French army instructors welcomed their African American trainees as comrades-in-arms and were impressed by the performance after learning valuable lessons in trench warfare from their French partners the soldiers of the three hundred sixty ninth finally had their chance to prove their medal is combat troops. When they entered the frontlines holding their line against the last German spring offensive near Chateau, Joey their value was not lost on the French. Then the regiment continued to fight alongside French forces participating in the is Marnie counteroffensive in the summer of nineteen eighteen alongside the. French one hundred sixty second infantry division. The regiment would go on to prove itself in combat operations throughout the rest of the war receding Francis. Highest honor the quality care for its units actions alongside some one hundred seventy one individual decorations for heroism. The hell fighters from Harlem had come into their own in spite of their difficult start. Rather than a top ten list? For today's episode. Let's do a list of number ones on October twenty fifth nineteen forty Benjamin o. Davis senior became the first African American to serve as general officer in the US army. He entered the military service in July of eighteen ninety eight during the war with Spain as a temporary first Lieutenant of the eighth, US, volunteer infantry. He then served as a corporal and squadron sergeant major and in nineteen oh one was commissioned. As a second Lieutenant of cavalry in the regular army, Davis's military decorations included the bronze star and the distinguished service medal for exceptional merit to service. The government in the duty of great responsibility from June nineteen forty one to November nineteen forty four as an inspector of troop units in the field and a special war department consultant on matters pertaining to negro troops. Immediately following the civil war William Kathy enlisted in the US regular army in Saint Louis, Missouri. William was described by the recruiting officer as five foot nine inches tall with black eyes black hair and a black complexion. This cursory examination by an army physician. Missed the fact that William Cathy was actually Kathy Williams. An African American woman Kathy served from November eighteen sixty six until her discharged with surgeon certificate of disability on October eighteen sixty eight despite numerous and often lengthy hospital stays during her service. Her gender was not revealed until June of eighteen ninety one when she applied for a disability pension and disclosed her true identity. She did not receive the pension not because she was a woman or because she was black. But because her disabilities were not considered service related Kathy. Williams has been noted in military history journals as the only documented female buffalo soldier, and the only documented African American woman who served in the US army prior to the nineteen forty eight law which officially allowed women to join. In eighteen seventy seven Henry o flipper became the first African American to graduate from the US military academy at West Point, new his assignment and July eighteen seventy seven to the tenth US cavalry, one of two black cavalry regiments organized after the civil war was the realization of a personal dream. Unfortunately, his dream was short lived as he was wrongfully court-martialed and dishonorably discharged assigned to the tenth cavalry over buffalo soldiers Lieutenant flipper served at forts Elliott conscio- Whitman sill Davis and he fought twice at eagles spring, Texas during the Victorio campaign against the Apaches eighteen eighty in eighteen eighty one while stationed at Fort Davis, Texas, he was framed by white officers and charged with embezzlement at his court martial. He was found not guilty of embezzlement. But guilty of conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman he was dishonorably discharged. And for the rest of his life fought to restore is good name following his death in nineteen forty flippers. Descendants continued advocating to have his dishonorable discharge overturned and in nineteen seventy six with the recognition of his mistreatment. He was finally granted an honorable discharge and a full pardon West Point now gives an award in his honor to the graduating senior who's displayed the highest qualities of leadership self discipline, and perseverance in the face of unusual difficulties while a cadet. World War Two brought out the best in America's young people. Young African American women like Margaret e Bailey found it as an opportunity to fight for their citizenship. This isn't a situation like starship troopers wear service guarantees citizenship, but military service and the struggle for civil rights are intrinsically intertwined by may nineteen forty three one hundred and eighty three African American nurses held commissions in the army nurse corps during World War, Two African American nurses served in all theatres of the war, including Africa, Burma, Australia and England at the conclusion of World War Two about six hundred African American nurses, it served one of these nurses. Margaret e Bailey accepted a commission in June of nineteen forty four in July of nineteen sixty four Bailey became the first African American promoted to Lieutenant Colonel in the army nurse. Core and in nineteen seventy she was promoted to full Colonel throughout her twenty seven year career in the army, Colonel Margaret Bailey advocated for the integration of all military housing work, environments and recreational facilities following her retirement. Bailey became a consultant to the surgeon general to promote increased participation by members of minority groups in the army nurse corps. And a side note, if you heard the tinkling of tiny bell in the background of that section or any part of today's podcast that is the collar of a foster cat named Matrosskaya which means Russian nesting doll, which side note aren't actually Russian. I'll tell you about that someday. After the seventh time I restarted that paragraph. I just decided to leave it in. In nineteen forty seven. Roscoe Robinson junior attended Saint Louis university for only a year before he transferred to the US military academy at West Point. He graduated with a degree in military engineering in nineteen fifty one during the next thirty four years. He would become a distinguished combat commander and the first African American to become a four star. General he served in the Korean war in nineteen fifty two as a platoon leader and rifle company commander and received. The bronze star after returning to the United States year later, he became an instructor in the airborne department of the US army infantry school in nineteen sixty seven he served as battalion commander in Vietnam. And there received the legion of merit the Distinguished Flying Cross eleven air medals and two silver stars. He was promoted to Brigadier General and in nineteen seventy five became commanding general of the US army garrison Okinawa. He also commanded the eighty second airborne division at Fort Bragg North Carolina, his final assignment was as US military Representative to the NATO military committee. He was then awarded with two distinguished service medals and one defense distinguished service medal after his retirement he was asked to oversee a panel tasked to examine the Korean war performance of some African American army units that had previously been criticized when Hazel Johnson an operating room nurse who graduated from the Harlem hospital school of nursing joined the army in nineteen fifty five. She thought it would be an opportunity that would allow her to explore the world and hone her nursing skills. She had no idea she would become the first African American female general officer, she entered the army shortly after president Harry Truman banned, segregation and discrimination in the armed services through her diligent service Johnson was rewarded with a number of promotion. Nhs and posts of responsibility. She was also afforded educational opportunities and would earn a bachelor's degree in nursing at Villanova university. A master's degree in nursing education from Columbia University and PHD in education administration from Catholic university as chief of the army's nurse corps. General Johnson commanded seven thousand male and female, nurses, including those in the army national guard and army reserve she also set policy and oversaw operations in eight. Army medical centers, fifty six community, hospitals and one hundred and forty three free standing clinics in the United States, Japan Korea. Germany Italy and Panama the list of awards and recognitions throughout her military. Career includes the nineteen seventy-two US army nurse of the year honorary doctorates from Villanova university. Morgan state university, the university of Maryland, the distinguished service medal, the legion of merit the meritorious service medal. And the army commendation medal with Oakley cluster. Her responsibilities left little time to pursue other avenues in life, including marriage. However, two years before retiring from the army Johnson, Mary David Brown and the sixteenth chief of the army, nurse corps, became Brigadier. General Hazel w Johnson Brown. And that's where we run out of ideas. At least for today. There are of course, more stories of African Americans who served their country than I could ever hope to recount like Leme, you'll Hanes who served as a minute man during the American revolution after gaining his freedom from indentured servitude. Or major Martin Robinson Delaney. The first African American field officer in the US army. He was accepted to Harvard Medical School, but was kicked out after three weeks when white students petitioned for his removal. More private first class, Milton all of the third who was posthumously awarded the medal of honor for saving the lives of four other soldiers during the Vietnam war when he threw himself on a grenade. Neither stories never be forgotten. Thanks for spending part of your day with e.
Episode 58: Tuskegee Airmen
"I'm Jason I'm chef restaurant a traveler and now I'm the host of the passenger people. Ask me all the time. What's that list of places to go in this city in that city and this show is dedicated to that idea? Immersing yourself in that culture and finding out what's intriguing and what we think about the future of that place as a visitor. As a passenger the first season the passenger premieres February. Twenty seven subscribe on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast with Cesky Airman from start to finish. We're flying close escort with the bombers and we did stay with them on over the targets. When you realize that fire the putting up was meant to knock you out of the sky and get your attention. The success of these two units met that the people who were in it would have a firm place in the United States. Airports this episode of Newsworld at a State of the Union on Tuesday February fourth president trump honored legendary aviator and one of the last surviving Tuskegee Airman Brigadier General. Charles Magee Magee. Turn one hundred years old. On December seventh in his speech trump said after more than one hundred thirty combat missions in world. War Two McGee Cam back to a country still struggling for civil rights and went on to serve American Korea and Vietnam. President Trump said general McGee our nation solution. I was inspired by General McGee and thought we should devote an episode of the ski gear. The only African American pilots in combat in the Army Air Forces during World War Two. The tuskegee airmen overcame segregation and prejudice to become one of the most highly respected fighter groups of World War Two. They proved that African Americans could fly and maintain sophisticated combat aircraft but askew Gammons achievements together with the men and women who supported them pave the way for full integration. Us will mature. I'm pleased to welcome my guest. Dr Daniel Haman Supervisory Historian at the Air Force Historical Research Agency Maxwell Air Force Base retired. So what drew you to them out of all the different areas you've looked on the air force. I started by Tuskegee airmen research in two thousand six. That's when I wrote my first article about the Tuskegee airmen and I was focusing then on the number of aerial victory credits they score during World War Two. I was a member of the Society for Military History and I decided to do an article about one of the phases of research that I was engaged in the Air Force Historical Research Agency Maxwell Air Force Base and that was keeping track of the aerial victory credits of all the air force pilots and I decided to focus on a unique group or group of squadrons and that was the three thirty second fighter group. Tuskegee airmen. The tuskegee airmen with first black pilots in American military service. What was the impetus to create to ski? And before they went to Tuskegee was a part of the Army Air Corps and it was probably mainly a promise that Franklin d Roosevelt made nineteen forty when he was running for his third term for president. He promised that he would allow the training of black pilots. In the Air Corps and of course the Air Corps is the descendant of the air service. The aircraft started by law in Nineteen Twenty. Six and the Air Corps had no black pilots until the tuskegee airmen but after Franklin D Roosevelt made that nineteen forty promise in March of nineteen forty one. The Ninety Ninth Pursuit Squadron was constituted and activated at Sinead `Field Illinois. It had no pilots yet but the war department announced in January of nineteen forty one that the pilots would be trained at Tuskegee so the night was sent to Tuskegee without pilots. The pilots were trained to test. Gigi and it was mainly I think Franklin D Roosevelt. It was pushing for the training of black pilots. They'd never been blacks in the Army Air Corps in any shape or form in fact when I first apply the informed. Flat out that they had no blacks in it they had no plans to have blacks in it and there was no even applying and this happened to most of us. It is very interesting that President Franklin Roosevelt and his wife. Ellen Roosevelt were very instrumental in this because on one hand Roosevelt himself was not a great integrationist but his wife had tremendous social consciousness and she actually went to Tuskegee and flew chief Anderson. Who was a tough test? Pilot and chief instructor pilot to Find out how. It was to fly with a black man when she went back. She told Franklin that Those men are perfectly models pilots. Your to give them a chance plus the fact that he was talking about suing them. If you were say from Chicago New York there'd be absolutely to a segregated environment for their training that was controversial at the time because a lot of the black civilian pilots. So is this a billion pilot training program all over the country for blacks and whites more for whites and blacks but there were selected universities around the country. Six of them that trained black civilian pilots. One of them was Tuskegee institute at the time. It's US Gig a university today but those pilots were trained partly and Chicago and there was a question about whether the training of black military pilots would be in Chicago at Tuskegee or some other place and one of the reasons to ski you was chosen was because of the good flying weather. They had a lot more days if good flying weather than Chicago did. Another reason was because Tuskegee was ready training a lot of civilian pilots but that argument could be made for Chicago as well and it was somewhat controversial when black pilots who are trained to civilians in Chicago and other places went down south it was controversial with the Naacp to the National Association for the Advancement of colored people because they wanted the black military pilot training to be integrated. They wanted the black pilots to train the white flying training basis but the war department insisted that they be trained on a segregated basis. And that's another reason why Tuskegee was chosen. I think the NAACP felt like they had to support the program anyway though eventually because it would be better to train black pilots on a segregated basis in the military then to have no black pilots at all to what extent the local community reactivating black pilots. That's a good question too because Tuskegee at the time was really to communities in one there was the black part of Tuskegee which included Tuskegee Institute during the War Years Nineteen forty one and nineteen forty five the majority of the people that Tuskegee were black but there was a white part of the community that resented the training of the black pilots and partly for that reason. There was some controversy when the black pilots would enter town. There were more subject to arrest than some of the other people who came in to Tuskegee. There were some racial incidents through a tube main trade basis that does get you one of them at Moton field with a primary flight training took place which is the site of Tuskegee airmen national historic site today and Ski Army Airfield which was a much larger airfield owned by the war department where the basic and advanced fly change. Replace THOSE TRAINING. Bases were a few miles to the north and northwest of Tuskegee. The town I'd say the white people who lived in Tuskegee resented the black training being so close to them but of course the majority of the citizens of Tuskegee the black citizens welcomed them and Tuskegee Institute of course welcomed them. How did they end up at Tuskegee? While they were looking for a place to do this they did not want to put into the system System wasn't those days that you took primary and one base basic somewhere else advanced somewhere else to rather than have US integrate the services at all they decide to build a base. A small base south of Tuskegee Institute. That's where the name comes from where they train us. They'd be give us primary basic advanced and fighter training at the same little installation. And that's how we got it. Oh part of that. I think was it Tuskegee Institute which was founded by Booker. T. Washington was a prestigious African American institution in Alabama. And because of the need to have good weather for training. They said well. Let's set it up at Tuskegee. Although at that time then double. Acp was really opposing this because they wanted the black trainees go to different places with white pilots. But the fact is in retrospect we could see that Fred Paterson it was. The president of Husky was right because if wade sent us individually the various white basis none of us would have gotten through because of the racism existed at that time. Were they recruited from all over the country? Yes there were. They came from all over the country and at first the standards were that you had to have a college degree. Or you had to have at least some college courses before you could even enter the Cadet pilot training and during the course of World War Two the requirement for that not only for the black pilots but also for the white pilots was reduced and there was a college training detachment for him to Tuskegee Institute in coordination with the war department to help those who did not have college to get some college so that they could be flight cadets in the Army Air Force but I'd say they were the cream of the crop that came from all over the country to Gigi for the pilot training so it was a very competitive process. Yes it was and I would say that. There were about two thousand cadets who entered the program and only about a thousand who completed the program because the standards were high and sometimes people criticize the training there because the standards were so high. But I think really. It was a feather in the cap of the training program. The commander of Tuskegee Army airfield was no parish. Colonel Parish is remembered by most of the Tuskegee airman. I've met as a very fair man who is really interested in the success of the training program. He also advocated integration of facilities on the base and he integrated facilities at Tuskegee Army airfield but he was also interested in turning out pilots. That were as good as any of the white pilots. He didn't want any of the cadets who didn't show proficiency to get their wings but the ones who did get their wings and there were about a thousand of them were as good as any of the white pilots in the country and his opinion were they being trained originally buy white instructors. While that is true for the military flight training the basic and advanced training that took place at Tuskegee Army airfield at first all of the instructors at Tuskegee Army airfield for the basic and advanced training worldwide and throughout the war the majority of the flight instructors at Tuskegee Army airfield white however for the primary flight training and that took place at Moton field which was really owned by Tuskegee institute at the time the primary flight training with mostly with byplanes on grass was dominated by black flight. Instructors so if you were a cadet going through the Tuskegee airman flight training program. You'd go into primary flight training first at Moton field with black played instructors and then when you finish the primary training you would go to. Tuskegee army airfield where the white flight instructors were the military flight instructors and then be trained mostly by white pilot instructors and that's understandable because there were no black military pilots at first so the military flight instructors were all white at first next whether Tuskegee airman three hundred thirty second fighter group are also known as the famous Red Tails. Hiring is challenging. But there's one place you can go. Were hiring is simple. Fast and smart and growing businesses connect to qualified candidates. Coda will co-founder Gretchen. Hubner experienced how challenging hiring can be after unsuccessfully searching for a new game artist to grow with her Education Tech Company but then she switched to Ziprecruiter and saw an immediate difference. And you can too by signing up for free has ZIPRECRUITER DOT COM slash. Newt Ziprecruiter doesn't depend on candidates finding you it finds them for you and by using ziprecruiter screening questions to filter candidates wretched found it easier to focus on the best ones. Then find the right one. In fact after posting her job ziprecruiter Gretchen said. She was honestly surprised. She found qualified applicants so quickly and hired a new game artist in less than two weeks with results like that. It's no wonder for five employers. Who Post on Ziprecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day? Ziprecruiter the smartest way to hire see why Ziprecruiter's effective for businesses of all sizes try Ziprecruiter for free at our special web address ziprecruiter dot com slash. Newt that's ziprecruiter dot com slash n e w t they moving specific units like in forty two forty three forty four as a unit trained and moved to Europe. How did the next phase of going from training to combat occur a night fighter squadron moved to Tuskegee in nineteen forty one got its first pilots in nineteen forty two and then went from Tuskegee directly overseas in the spring of nineteen forty three and when it went overseas and went to North Africa and it was attached to a white fighter group because it was the only black flying squadron overseas at the time? In the meantime the three thirty second fighter group with three squadrons one hundred three. Oh I and through a second fighter. Squadrons was activated at Tuskegee and when it had enough pilots to be operational then the three thirty second fighter group and its three squadrons deployed to Michigan to Selfridge Field Michigan from further training and train there until early nineteen forty four and then the three thirty second fighter group and its three squadrons moved to Italy. Where the Ninth Fighter Squadron was already stationed by that time in the summer of nineteen forty four then? The Ninety Ninth Fighter Squadron was assigned to the three thirty second fighter group which already had three squadrons the reason for that they wanted to put all the black flying squadrons under the same group so that made the three thirty second fighter group. The only black fighter group overseas have four squadrons instead of three so it had more squadrons more pilots more aircraft than the average fighter in the Fifteenth Air Force that summer of nineteen forty four was also revolutionary because their mission change there flying for the Twelfth Air Force supporting ground forces until summer of nineteen forty four when they were assigned bomber escort missions. That we're going to escort B seventeen. It'd be twenty four bombers and be one of those seven fighter escort groups of the Fifteenth Air Force and so they changed aircraft. They've I flew forty s and P thirty nine for the Twelfth Air Force for the bomber escort missions they flew p forty seven's and eventually the P fifty one whose tales they painted red. What did they do that? That became very famous back. There was a movie made about it. Yes it did sometimes this distortion about that. Sometimes people get the idea that they were the only fighter group over there that decided to paint their tails red and that they were the only group that had distinctive colored tales. That's not true. Every fighter group especially for those that escorted bombers had distinctive colors of the tails the three thirty second fighter group of course had the solid red tails the thirty first fighter group which also flew for the fifteenth airforce in escorting bombers hedge striped red tails. The fifty second fighter group flew P. Fifty one's that had yellow tails and the three twenty fifth fighter. Group had tales. That were checkerboard pattern. Black and yellow so every group had its own distinctive colored tail so that they could be identified not only for the bomber groups that there were escorting but also to be able to help distinguish them from enemy fighters into all this and your mind who are the people who really shaped the culture and the morale and who became sort of the standard setters for the Tuskegee airmen who the individuals Hewlett to think. That person really made history. Well I would say there were a lot of them and they were not only black but also white. I'd Benjamin O Davis Junior is by far the most famous of the Tuskegee airmen and justifiably. So because he was trained at West Point his father was the first black general in the army. He became one of the first black pilots. He was in the first class to graduate. From flight training at Tuskegee. He became the commander of the Ninety Ninth Fighter Squadron and then he became the commander of the three thirty second fighter group back in world. War Two We had an all Negro fighter group that I commanded and later a a medium bombardment group. These success these two units met particularly the fighter group in combat in North Africa. Sicily and Italy Meant that The people who ran it would have a firm place in the United States. Air Force I think without I've questioned. This has to be So very very important that It's the most important thing that happened to me. during my he eventually he became the commander of the first black bomber group which didn't go overseas the four seventy seven bombardment group and so he definitely became the most famous of the Tuskegee. I mean he became the first black general in the air force. The first three black generals in the air force were Tuskegee. Airman Daniel Chappie. James did not fly overseas in World War Two but he became the first four-star Black General in the air force and in any of the services. He did fly in Korea and Vietnam and I'd say no perish should be given some of the credit to because he was the commander of Tuskegee Army airfield during most of World War. Two and he turned the culture around at Tuskegee. The commander of Tuskegee Army airfield before him. Who wasn't there very long was very unpopular because he's segregated all the facilities on the base. He wanted to keep the blacks and whites separated. No parish was not like that no parish improved the morale and some of the black personnel. If you look at their descriptions of the way things were at Tuskegee airfield they respected Noah. Perish and they thought that he was truly interested in their success. Sometimes you hear people say well. The tuskegee airman flight training program was designed to fail. I don't think no parish believed it was designed to fail. He was determined that it was exceed and partly because of him. It did succeed. I was very honored to have been able to attend. Eight TUSKEGEE AIRMEN INC national conventions to meet a lot of the TUSK airman and also to meet them at other places at Maxwell Air Force Base where I worked for thirty seven years. They would often have at Air Command and staff college a gathering of Eagles and sometimes well often they would have tuskegee. Airman honored so Tuskegee airmen would come to the base. Some of them would come to do research and when I was working on my book. Tuskegee airmen chronology. I was putting in a lot of information that I got from them and from their records and some of them who I knew personally some of them who have passed away for example Bill Harlem and Bill Holloman was a p fifty one pilot in World War Two served with Tuskegee airman flew in Korea and Vietnam like Charles McGee and was one of my favorite Tuskegee airmen. Like Charles mcghee. Roscoe Brown was one of three Tuskegee airmen who flew on the Berlin Mission March twenty fourth nineteen forty five and shot down a German jet. There were three Tuskegee. Airman who shot down German jets that day and Lee Archer. I knew Lee Archer shot down. Four enemy aircraft one on July eighteenth nineteen forty four and three of them on October twelfth. Nineteen forty four since he was almost an ace. There were three tuskegee airman. Who Shot down four enemy aircraft and almost became basis. Because you needed five to be an ACE. And they were four. Tuskegee airmen who shot down three in one day but I don't WanNa leave out the people on the ground. There were people like Jim. Shepard who was a crew chief on the ground helped arm. The aircraft helped maintain the P fifty one aircraft to the ninety ninth fighter squadron. Help make sure it had the fuel tanks loaded and made sure the aircraft were worthy of plight and came back safely back for second the Berlin flight involved p fifty one's yes it did. There was only one fifteenth Air Force bombing mission to Berlin because most of the missions against Berlin were by the Eighth Air Force in England. The Fifteenth Air Force was stationed in Italy and the three thirty second fighter. Group that Tuskegee airmen. We're based in Italy escorting bombers from Bram Atelli their own airfield on March twenty four and nineteen forty five the fifteenth Air Force launched. Its only mission to Berlin. There were five fighter escort groups of the seven fighter escort groups in the Fifteenth Air Force. That took part in the Berlin vision but the three thirty second fighter group was one of the groups took part in the Berlin mission if you saw the movie Red Tails and incidentally I was one of the technical advisers that movie even though it wasn't totally historically accurate but if you saw that movie at it looks like the three thirty second fighter. Group was the only fighter escort group to go to Berlin that day. But that's not true. There were five fighter groups on that mission. It's a Ski. Yemen made famous in part by. Hbo's Nineteen Ninety Five Television. Movie starring Laurence Fishburne and Cuba gooding junior and by the Charles Francis Nineteen fifty. Five tuskegee airmen. The men who changed nation care more about their rise to FAME AT NEW CENTER CIRCLE DOT com his subscription service where I offer and commentary on the issues of matter to me most joined today than Newt Center Circle Dot com coming up the Tuskegee gear. Men's legacy and how they open up opportunities for Black Americans Post World War Two. I'm Hugh Atchison. I'm a chef harassed on tour a traveler and now I'm the host of the passenger from iheartradio travel a lot for work and being chef and doing all these things and people. Ask me all the time. You know what this that list of places to go in this city in that city. Where's a good coffee shop with the Good Museum? So I've always doodles and created lists and this show is dedicated to that idea. Immersing yourself in that culture and finding out what's intriguing about that place where they at and what we think about the future of that place as a visitor as a passenger. We'll get to know Vanna though. Go Island Newfoundland Montreal Austin even find out what makes Boise Idaho and international city. The first season the passenger premieres February twenty seven. Subscribe on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast when the war ended and they began to demobilize although clearly a number of them stayed in the Air Force. Do you have any sense of the adjustments? They had to go through or and here there. These are guys who've done. A great job for the country have been very successful and have been doing something that they're remarkably good at many of them became very successful. I think the general feeling was that when they returned to the United States. They were expecting suicide to have changed and that they would be accepted and that they would be racial integration. And that's not what happened not immediately. They were disappointed that they were returning to a segregated environment especially those that went to the south but many of them became successful. For example roscoe Brown became a leading educator in New York and those that didn't continue and military service sometimes got involved in the civil rights movement and took part in some of the movement to secure integration not only in the military but in society as a whole Harry Truman issued Executive Order. Nine nine eight one. In nineteen forty eight which mandated the desegregation of the military services. The Air Force was already moving in that direction was already training black and white pilots together. After tuskegee closed in nineteen forty six the Air Force became independent from the army in nineteen forty seven and even before the main integration to the black flying unit in nineteen forty nine. They were already training black and white pilots together at Williams field in Arizona. Legacy was that you could have very successful lack units and you could have people both ground crews and pilots who were fully competitive with anybody else in the service. Many of the Tuskegee airmen were disappointed when they got back. Some of them wanted to be civilian pilots for the airlines. And they were not really able to do that. Many of them express their disappointment at not being hired by the civilian airlines because a lot of the civilian airlines had all these white transport pilots that they wanted to hire over the tuskegee airmen because the ones that served overseas were fighter pilots and the ones that flew B. Twenty five bombers in training in the four seventy seven bombardment group. Were flying twin engine planes but the airlines. We're looking for people with experience with more airline type. Plans like transports and there were no Tuskegee. Airmen Flying Transports in World War Two Sousa period hurt transferring their knowledge into the private sector. Right those that stayed in the military service especially after the integration of the Air Force or able to use their talents and skills more readily and rose in the ranks. People like Daniel Chappie James for example and Charles McGee and George Hardy. Those that stayed in the service I think were generally more successful in aviation than those that wanted to go into the private sector in aviation when you look at extraordinary period American history. What are the lessons you wish? Young people could take out of the development of the tuskegee airman and their experiences quad. Say the first lesson to the Tuskegee. Airman is given the opportunity. They proved the black men could do whatever white men could do. They could the same kinds of aircraft they could be as successful as the white pilots and also the support personnel on the ground that supported those pilots. I think that's less than number one and I think less number two is partly their persistence and their demonstration that they could succeed if they applied themselves. They had some opportunity not as much to use the white pilots and they helped push open the door for opportunity for example. It's Freeman field. Indiana in April of nineteen forty five. There was a segregation crisis. Where the four seventy seven th bombardment. Group was training. There were white officers and black trainees and Robert Sell Way. Was the commander of the fourth seventy seventh. He tried to enforce segregated facilities at Freeman field. Which aroused what was called the Freeman field mutiny? And there were two rounds of arrest. Some tuskegee airman officers were arrested for entering the white only officers club and some of them were arrested for refusing to sign a new base regulation that specified segregated facilities And incidents like that show that they pushed for greater opportunity equality on their base especially at Freeman Field Noah parish at Tuskegee Army airfield already allowed the integration of the base facilities there. So that's another lesson for young people that sometimes the pursuit of justice needs to be achieved with some cost because some of those officers were arrested. Freeman field for example. Was there a sense? This is before Truman issues. His executive order right so at that point. There's no pressure inside the system. What was really because the army had regulations that were somewhat vague and it said if you were assigned to obey sure able to use the officers club there. An army regulation that said that and it didn't say anything about segregated office clubs in fact at Tuskegee when they had a segregated dining facility some of the black officers at Tuskegee took that army regulation with them and went to the white side of the dining facility and demanded service and they got it partly because they had the regulation and partly because no parish was the commander of the base and he allowed the desegregation of the dining facility at Tuskegee airfield. So there was some within the army within the war department in the Army Air Forces that base facility should be integrated the airman's speak in glowing terms so when they talk about Noel pairs some Matera because no Paris gave them the opportunity to prove themselves in the aviation program. No Peres gave them the respect. That was not at that time. There was a lot of indignity faced by the tuskegee airmen. Especially those from the north who we're not used to that they were in more integrated environments in the north and when they came south and trained to ski There was integration a lot by Noel Parrish on the base but outside the base things were closed at Tuskegee to them and the town. Do you think that that's part of why as we went? Through the last seventy years they remained short symbolically important because they were proof that in fact African Americans could be part of a remarkable unit they could achieve great things and therefore for an awful lot of African Americans who wanted America to work. They were assembled it was possible. That's right they were definitely. I'd say all the military groups in World War Two. The tuskegee airmen was probably the most successful eventually became the most famous I think. They deserve their fame. They deserve to be remembered for the opportunities. They open to people of their race and all people really and there were other things too that they achieved cheating down one hundred twelve enemy aircraft and being the first black flying group in combat. The first black flying group to shoot down enemy aircraft. Verse Black Flying Group to escort bombers and the first black flying group to fly the most fighters and the inventory piece fifty one on the allied side who are the great challenges we had here. We are fighting a racist regime in Nazi Germany. While having people get trained in a place that still have segregation and there had been some sense of irony if you will not not necessarily bitterness. Who's I think they're having a pretty good time flying and working with aircraft? I'm getting paid a pretty decent amount for the period but still had to be. The sense of our audit was the name of human equality. We were shooting down Germans over Germany. But in fact we hadn't finished cleaning our situation up here at home. That's very true and I think a lot of the Tuskegee airmen felt that way especially when they returned home and they saw that. Things haven't really changed that much. Even though the Army Air Forces and the army had allowed black pilots to be part of the service and that had never been done before that there was still a lot of discrimination and as I said before it Harry. Truman's executive order nine nine eight. One didn't come out until nineteen forty eight so there was still not integration and the American military until few years after World War Two the Air Force had black flying units at lock born Air Force Base in Ohio. The three thirty Second Fighter Wing. Three thirty second fighter group squadrons and they were inactivated in nineteen forty nine and their personnel. Were reassigned to formerly all white units. That was the most significant step in the integration of the Air Force. It took a long time for the American society especially in the south to also be integrated so at that point. You really had the sense. Ironically that finally starting forty nine we were GonNa Place. You buy your rank not your race and people were actually going to begin to move right. Yes I think. A lot of the tuskegee airman who served in the American military had higher expectations about what the army would allow them to do. Partly because of what they were able to achieve during World War Two and the progress continued after World War. Two after Tuskegee airfield closed and stop training Bella. -tary pilots in nineteen forty six. Then black military pilots were being trained at formerly all white bases and the integration of the service has said most notably happened in nineteen forty nine and during the Korean War the army experience more integration in the navy started training black pilots as well. So it's all part of the story. The civil rights story didn't really start with Rosa Parks in the nineteen fifties here in Montgomery but it started really long before that and the Tuskegee airmen played a great role in that story does say something that both would happen. Rosa parks which ironically much like Jackie Robinson involving told to go to the back of the bus but also the notion that it was in Alabama that the Tuskegee airmen got trained and became famous and in that sense Alabama ultimately after a great deal of struggle. The him one of the places where we began to finally become an integrated society. That's right the Tuskegee story is celebrated at Tuskegee airmen national historic site which is at Moton field where the primary flight training took place during World War. Two and it's a site. I would recommend anybody coming from other places to visit Alabama. They might WanNa visit Tuskegee airmen national historic site. Listen thank you very much for doing. This is very helpful. Well I appreciate the opportunity to talk with you and to share what I've learned about the Tuskegee airman especially from the years I worked as a historian at the Air Force Historical Research Agency at Maxwell Air Force Base Lear Force retired and Originally from I was born in Cleveland Ohio in Nineteen nineteen escape year are black pilots mechanics and support people who when our country declared war against Hitler came forward and dispel the biases and generalizations. Because the color of our skin. We couldn't support our country in a technical area. Our task was to keep their clear of German fighters that were destroying men. If our bombers you know we thought we had enough guns on the B Seventeen B. Twenty four protect them. That wouldn't so and that's why they escort were began. We also destroyed a lot of uh Germany's war making potential on the ground. Pittsburgh courier came out and said No. We're this double victory activity for black. Americans are fighting against Hitler in Europe and also fighting against racism here at home. One thing personally folks like well how to face. I said well I grew up. Learning that You know you treat others like you WanNa be treated so important and then realizing that the value lessons that sustained us or does is important too for the young people today in what they faced for. America's future preserve the freedoms. We claim well so much told. The circumstance has been excuse for not achieving. We could've very old. They don't like me they don't want may go off in the corner with her head bowed. That's not the American way you can read more about the ski airman on our show page at Newt's World Dot Com neutral is produced by Gingrich three sixty and iheartmedia. Our executive producer is Debbie Meyers and our producers Garnsey slow. The artwork for the show was created by Steve. Please email me with your comments at Newt. Neutral DOT COM. If you would enjoy nutro I hope you'll go to apple podcast and both radius with five stars and give us a review so others can learn what it's all about on the next episode of Niche World. Mary Ball Washington was a resilient widow who single handedly raised five children and ran a large farm at a time. When most women's duties were relegated household matters. She raised her elder son. George to become one of the world's greatest leaders and the first president of the United States in his new book author Craig Shirley Explorers George Washington's family and upbringing and how his mother shaped his life. I'm Newt Gingrich. This is Newt's world. Hey everyone I'm Steven Hyden Jordan. Runtaugh join us as we avail our new music podcast rivals. It's a look back at famous music robberies of the past every week Jordan will explore new rivalry delving into all the details about our beloved musical icons who just can't seem to get along with their fellow legends. We'll debate each other about who deserves half the upper hand in these classic conflicts. You will remember the biggest piece of music history and hopefully become aware of some. You didn't know. Join US on rivals. A new podcast from IHEART radio debut on February twenty six. Listen to follow on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you was in your favorite podcasts. I'm Hugh Jackson. I'm a chef for restaurant terror traveler. And now I'm the host of the passenger people. Ask me all the time. What's that list of places to go in this city in that city and this show is dedicated to that idea? Immersing yourself in that culture and finding out what's intriguing and what we think about the future of that place as a visitor as a passenger the first season. The passenger premieres February twenty seventh. Subscribe on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts.
ICE whistleblower speaks out, alleges mass hysterectomies performed on migrant women
"Businesses all over the world right now are trying to reinvent how they connect with the world. Whether, you're delivering packages treating patients are running a global customer support center. Your customers need you to invent new ways to stay connected. Twi- Leo is the platform that millions of developers trust to build seamless communications, experiences with phone calls, text messages, video calls, and more whatever your use case. Twi- Leo has your back. It's time to build visit twitter dot com to learn more. Tonight on all end. Forty nine days out, and there's one important thing to know about the president's campaign of fear and panic white backlash and denial reality. It's not really working. We'll go through the evidence then shocking whistleblower allegations of atrocities at an ice detention center including forced hysterectomies on women who don't need them tonight, the whistle blower nurse herself joins me live plus Donald. Trump is tanking America's trust in a corona virus vaccine in creating a culture of paranoid conspiracy believers shaking the foundation of American democracy. When George Bush. was saying I can't breathe and then he died and we're wearing a mask and we say I can't brief before story anyway. What all in starts right now. Good evening from new. York I'm Chris as were forty nine days out from the election. The country continues to be in the grips of a once in a century catastrophic pandemic we lost. Hundred Ninety six thousand Americans back just today just today we recorded over a thousand American deaths and I get it. I get why the shock of the result of two thousand sixteen and it's election has led so many people in the media and in politics and a lot of you right there the other side of the screen, the viewers watching this one's I talked to or email me to believe that Donald Trump has some unquantifiable almost magical power to hypnotize the voting populace. A lot of people are feeling that the polls can't be right and that the president will be able to marshal the power of white backlash in a way that defies the laws of political gravity. But that is not true at least based on the data that we have right now. Donald Trump is significantly down in the poll seven points behind Joe Biden according to fivethirtyeight average that gap is larger and much much much more consistent. The pulling in two, thousand, sixteen and everyday. The trump remains down shows that what he is trying to do. So transparently transparently in desperately fear and division with as long strategy is not working. No matter how many times people write articles or pundits talk about it on TV the things the president is running on. Fear Chaos violence are not persuading the voters he needs to persuade. Just look at the national polling picture over the past couple of months I mean, the rate the race has remained again, shockingly remarkably stable with biden ahead by around seven or eight points today, there are also some new high-quality polls from battleground states. Joe Biden is up three points on lightly voters in North Carolina forty, nine to forty, six percent. That's bad news for Donald Trump in Florida Biden is up five points among registered voters fifty to forty five, and the most important result I think today in Wisconsin. Joe Biden is up ten points. Fifty two to forty two percent. All right. Just over three weeks ago and Kenosha Wisconsin. You remember of course that a police officer shot a black man named Jacob Lake in the back seven times in the weeks that followed Kenosha was wracked by protests. There was arson there's property damage scuffles with police, and then of course, you'll remember vigilante who's been charged with shooting and killing two protesters at. Late Night Amidst the protests there there were headlines how chaos and Kenosha is already swing some voters in Wisconsin near times. It's just three days after the shooting of Jacob Lake it's playing into trump's hands DEM's fear swing state damage Kenosha on rest that one from politico, just four days after the shooting. This was going to be it. The thing that's swung the polls and presents direction particularly in that state. In that crucial tipping point battleground state the message from trump and the Republican party was yet keep protesting you libs you black lives matter folks keep pushing and you'll see what happens. Well here's what happened. The Day Jacob Blake was shot. Biden was up seven points in Wisconsin fifty point one, forty, three, point one today he is up. Six point eight points the number of basically have not moved. The race has not changed. Wisconsin voters were also asked in that new poll out today. At worry they are. But the risk of crime in their communities sixty three percents that they are not worried. Crime along with racism has been one of the president's main messages down the stretch of this campaign I mean he deployed federal forces to Portland Oregon specifically to create viral mayhem content? Right he's been warning suburban White Women that New Jersey Senator Corey Booker is coming to invade their neighborhoods with low income housing. The most desperate transparent attempts at fearmongering and still being racist backlash. And based on all the data we have again, maybe all of its bunk, but I don't think so it's not working. I mean when I look at American politics over the last year I'd say I say this program. Sometimes, I feel like my head might explode. I even like myself why doing this job because so much has happened so much has happened and so little has changed in public opinion. But one place where we can see are pretty striking and clear calls in effect right now is among seniors. All right. Take a look at this data from Wisconsin Biden leads among seniors by twenty four points, Sixty thirty-six, and over seventy percent of seniors pulled him Wisconsin said they are very or somewhat worried about corona virus. Biden is also leading among seniors nationally multiple polls recent MONMOUTH survey showed him up eleven points. A Democrat has not won voters over the age of sixty five in two decades. Think about that two decades. But the reality is. Nearly, two hundred thousand people have died from the coronavirus country. The vast majority of the people we've lost have been senior citizens and Donald Trump has been running on a message that says, old people's deaths don't really count. Because he probably would have died soon. Anyway. And grandma should suck it up and get out in the battlefield and look at senile Joe Biden with one foot in the grave. Can you trust that guy and amazingly that seems to be turning off seniors. Donald Trump is not invincible. He does not have some magical sway over the whole electric. We're in the midst of a disaster that disaster is moving public opinion and it structures the dynamics of this race. For more on the state of the presidential race with forty nine days to go on joined. Now, by Michelle Goldberg at Columnists in your times journalist and commentator Mehdi Assan both good friends of the show Michelle let me start with you. I mean I just say like I get the PTSD here and I get also the fear of white backlashes a powerful force in American politics both of. Those are there was a polling miss in two, thousand, sixteen, white backlash can be very powerful but I also do think there's a reluctance to try to seal see things afresh right now in terms of as clear as possible what is it is not working for Donald Trump. And I mean and I have the PTSD. Thing because it was so traumatic in two thousand, sixteen it's easy to forget that despite a lot of certainty going into election night, the Poles were pretty unstable. Throughout fall right I went back and read some old stories during the conventions and I didn't realize. Until until I revisited it that there were Kohl's during the Democratic convention showing Donald Trump winning by a couple of points right thing sort of fluctuated and so even though people couldn't imagine this in some sense. We were. In some sense, we more. We were less willing to let the numbers guide us in two thousand sixteen than than we are now. But I also This isn't the first time. We're seeing this right in two, thousand, eighteen, the president ran on the caravan and ran on white backlash and given twenty sixteen some of feared it would work and we saw that it didn't. Many. I'm curious what your view of this is why it has has hasn't worked I mean the president has obviously lean into this there really has been. The really have been distressing scenes and Kenosha, the the in the aftermath of that police shooting there there is a long legacy of appeals to this kind of. Identity Politics for white people being very successful. What what is your read of what is happening right now and why it isn't work It's a great question. I think the symbol answer is to go about something you said in the introduction about each candidate who has magical powers he can define you can defy the laws of politics in this country and the laws of politics in this country say that if you're an incumbent and there is violence and chaos on your watch, you get blamed for it. So this is not one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, eight, and even if it was. Nineteen sixty, the roles are reversed. Then it was a Republican challenging Democratic president now and say Republican incumbent presiding over this any Democrat, challenging him and I know the Republican Party trump the chair of the gop day all now obsessed with pretending that Joe Biden is the sitting president so that they can blame him the covid nineteen and one hundred, ninety, thousand, dead. They can blame him for violence and chaos, but even in our kind of facts free well. Fox Fide facebook dwell even that's too thought. No the Donald trump if president one fact sticks and he has to defend that it his record on the line I won't make you mentioned consistency in polls going about the march. Just take senior. You said the Democrats senior for twenty years since Al Gore. Biden was neck and neck or leading with seniors even before Constantine Picton, which is fascinating, which shows that ever since he declared back in early two, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety more than five hundred days ago every single day he has led donald trump and had tadpoles and he's eaten into Donald. Trump's key group seniors. White people without a college education trump's leads much smaller lead over Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden benefits from not being Hillary Clinton, that is one of the very simple short on so as to why he's doing. So rightly or wrongly people didn't like Hillary Clinton, they don't have the same animus towards Joseph Biden. There's also you also sort of traditional method metrics of campaigns here, and again I think in two thousand sixteen, the idea that those traditional metrics got thrown out the window partly, right? Right. But I mean when you look at this sort of idea that trump had. started his reelection on the first day sooner than anyone else was raising more money than anyone there. Now, sort of apparently somewhat cash-strapped you have. Biden the Democrats raising three, hundred, sixty, four, two, hundred, ten, million like. There are again if you looked at this race, if you didn't know the race and it was just x and Y, you were talking about like a statewide race and you had to wipe all your preconceptions, you would you have a pretty clear sense of WHO's winning this race Michelle. Right or if this was reversed Hillary Clinton was president and she had the numbers trump has the fundraising that donald trump has we'd all probably Democrats probably would have given up they would be an utter despair. I do think though that it's important again because there are a lot of you know we there are a lot of reasons Democrats to still be as anxious as they are We still don't know if this is going to be a free and fair election. We you know we do have the counter majoritarian influence of the electoral college even if Joe Biden is added in swing states so I think the trick for Democrats is. To feel confident amount themselves be paralyzed anxiety to understand that the end to this nightmare is within their reach and at the same time not to be complacent I. Think people probably won't be complacent because because they were there once before. But I, do think people should look back on two thousand sixteen and think about what they wish. They had done in the month before that happened and do that. Now it's a great point I don't. Think. There's much risk complacency and I think in some ways you know when we talk when we talk about. Mail in voting and sort of efforts vote suppression in these crazy lawsuits are being filed left and right right the danger. There is some sense of impotence right? That's the big fear and I know I've talked to voting rights advocates right that like even the story itself about your vote's going to get lost in the mail itself acts as a disincentive that like the fundamental lever here, which is like things are bad in the country we should vote out the incoming president that at least creek. Lee and Russell Lee is still working to me is actually an incentive to keep pushing on the Lever Yes and of course, nothing to sure thing let out the reasons why you can still easily win again electoral college has a message bias towards Jim but the reality is you say, yet creaking out the incumbent, the factors are there I. Think what we've done is we've overcorrected in twenty sixteen many of us myself included trump card win, and now we've got another extremely. They. A lot of people they trump cut loose and I think we need to find some middle ground and when we talk about polls in two thousand, sixteen will actually a national level. The polls were wrong. But yes, they got some things wrong at a statewide level. But here's the big question Michelle alluded to earlier we had an election since two, thousand, nine, hundred, eighteen, the. Midterms. They will say Blue Wave Democrats had a popular vote media of around seven point, which is roughly what Biden has. Now, they did very well winning Senate and governorship races in Michigan. Wisconsin Pennsylvania. Those are all good signs as I say, doesn't need any I don't know anyone who doesn't like Donald. Trump who's complacent about this election it's a complete I've never met anyone who goes yeah he's done. Similar. Now and to your point about twenty, eight hundred, and you do a lot of reporting that was also the product of sort of structural factors and backlash when we didn't have covered yet but it was also like a lot of people did put their energy into voter contact and mobilizing in lots of ways, and there was the campaign manager for Joe Biden today gave a press call. She talked about we're not knocking on doors because we don't think it safe but we're doing a ton of voter contact you. There is a lot going on in this campaign even though it doesn't look like a traditional campaign. And I. Think. That's another reason that people are so anxious right in the past. If you were anxious, you could go to a nearby swing state. You could go in knock doors you could get a sense of the situation on the ground. Now, a lot of the campaigning is so invisible I actually spoke to the chair of the Democratic, party in Wisconsin today and said, should I be anxious that people aren't out out there knocking doors for Democrats, the end he is really confident that these. Phone calls and relational organizing. They have kind of an APP where you can contact you reach out to people in your contacts who need to be reached by By volunteers, they have the tools, but you can't see it if you're not involved and again, it's also a big experiment right? We can feel confident. We can think that this is gonNA work, but it's all the fact that we're going into this election with a set of tools and a set of conditions that are unprecedented. Goldberg and many Hasan always great to talk to both you and thank you for making happens tonight. Public Trust in Corona virus vaccine is dwindling a prison claims one could be ready to matter of weeks just in time for the election look at what will happen when we do get a vaccine which is crucial after this. Carla Hall found her success as a two time finalist on top chef and is a TV personality on M. A. and Netflix's crazy delicious. But the biggest moments in Carla's life have come when she decided to face adversity head on her motto say yes to everything life throws your way in her new wondering podcast say yes with Carla Hall. Carla. Sits Down with some of the most inspiring celebrity personalities as they explore their challenges and how they got to their. Yes. In episode, one, Carla Chats with Kristen. Bell about everything from how she faces being a working mom in Hollywood in the public eye to the liberation. We can feel we just admit that sometimes we don't know, and there are even more great moments to come in interviews with guests like Billy Porter Martha, Stewart Gretchen Rubin Lonnie Love, and many more subscribe to say yes with Carla, Hall on Apple Podcasts spotify or listen ad free on the wondering APP, wondering feel the story. Hey everyone, it's Chris. As you know these days I find it helpful to just take a step back from the day to day onslaught of news and take a broader look at the issues. I haven't had time to cover my TV show all in everything from the legacy of racism in America to community and creativity can flourish Minster Pandemic how Democrats could win and deep America I do each week on my podcast wise is happening and I'm joined by uniquely qualified guests like Pulitzer Prize winning reporter Nicole Hannah Jones progress does not mean justice or equality or that we are right after four hundred years of black people being in. This country that type marking incremental progress in patting ourselves on the back for that has been long over author Rebecca Solnit. How do we take care of each other in the context of not being able to physically be with each other in ordinary ways crooked media's Jon favreau it's going to be the highest turnout election in history, which means that it is persuasion game and many others who helped me make sense of what's happening in our society and our world I really enjoy our conversations. I hope you will too. So join me for new episodes. Every Tuesday just search for wise is happening wherever you're listening right now and subscribe. Don't trump is destroyed the reputational capital the trust the cornerstone of constructing the infrastructure needed to deliver us from this nightmare to vaccinate Americans against this virus. Polling shows we have a real problem morning console ask people they will get a vaccine word available in April seventy two percent response. Yes. This month the numbers dropped down to just fifty one percent and astoundingly in a new poll only twenty six percent of people said, they trust what Donald Trump to say about vaccines it's only about a quarter of those polled. Big driver this is that Donald Trump has politicized treatment and vaccine process from the very beginning we have actual concrete examples of him pressuring the Food and Drug Administration specifically on the unproven treatments of hydroxy cleric Quinton Plasma. He's all but promised a vaccine by election day despite the fact that scientists say that is almost certainly not possible. So he's taking the accrued reputational capital of these scientific public health agencies which were already under assault from ANTIBAC- sers, and like he's done with other inheritances, he's blown it for his short term personal benefit. Now. Republicans have the goal to turn around and try to make political issue if Democrats say their little uneasy about all this like vice presidential nominee, comal, Harris month expressing concerns. Let's say there's a vaccine that is approved and even distributed before the election. Would you get? Well, I, think that's going to be an issue for all of us. I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump. And it would have to be a credible source of information. A credible source of information that's perfectly reasonable in mind them. Last night the Democrat running for Senate north. Carolina Cal Cunningham was asked about taking a vaccine. If there were seen by November third by election day or the end of the year would you take the vaccine and would you encourage your family members to take the vaccine I've got questions and I think we have seen entirely too many times and especially in recent years politics intervening and what should be driven by health and science. So do I read you say you would be hesitant? To receive the vaccine if it were approved by the end of the year. I'M GONNA. Yes. That would be hesitant but I'm going to ask a lot of questions I think that's incumbent on all of us right now in this environment with the way we've seen politics intervening in Washington. You're discussing the president is doing the credibility of coronavirus vaccine economist. Jeffrey Sachs, he's also the chairman, the Medical Journal, The Lancet Covert Nineteen Commission, which created an outline for glow response pandemic including the production and distribution of vaccines. Different, you've had experience in this. You've you've had experience both sort of arguing anti vaccines and obviously the developmental. Development context of Vaccine Deployment I. The first question is you know I don't think cal Cunningham's answer their worded precisely as I would. But it does strike me as important for folks to make a distinction between what Donald Trump says about vaccine and who they trust and how they would sort of ascertain the trust-worthy. That's. I. Think. We have to start with a very different point, which is that we reached two hundred thousand guests of Americans as of today, and the rate of deaths for rocky relations in our country is a hundred times higher than it is in many other countries in the world. So we have had an anti science. Ignorant, reckless a process in this country and you could say led by trump e leads chaos, confusion and death. So nobody can trust anything right now as you said because he has been unwilling and uninterested in telling the truth and in following the basics of public hal from the beginning and it's two hundred, thousand deaths as of today unbelievable four times essentially the gas of all the Vietnam War. So now we have late. Politicizing of the what would be the most rapid development of a vaccine in history we've got to root for that success, but of course, anything trump touches is ally. This is makes things Ron, and this is all the one has to know and say it Tony Foul cheap comes on your show Chris and says, look the sciences clear. Let me show you the evidence we're going to believe that yeah. If Donald Trump on November, one says you gotTa vaccine on the greatest ended the day before the election starts this kind of nonsense. We know what this is about and trump himself. He tells us how he lies he lines about everything and he explains. Tape, now, how he lied about everything lies about climate change she lives about Kovin lie about the vaccine can't people figure this part out this man conveys no information except. Reckless self interest well, and and here's where I mean this is the scenario that strikes me and it is really dangerous. I, think that we have this kind of. Once. You drop a little bit of ink into that water. The doubt. Into into people's perception of it like it's hard to get out right so and I get why policies to be very careful what they say what you just said I think is a good rule like if we have credible sources vouching for this and can point to the process and yes, like I'll personally I will go get the vaccine right? When whenever that is approved but the scenario that seems the most likely to me is a kind of middle scenario, which is that in advance of actual rock solid where we are on the vaccine, he makes them announcement for the election or even if there's good. Phase trial results, and then the actual deployment is not some Yada Yada Yada thing like as you know and as I think you, you've been working on written about the. And the logistics of getting people vaccinated is as much of a challenge as the actual development. People should understand also, we're going to need normal public count that we have not even had to this moment. In this country, we're going any testing tracing facemask wearing care for Moscow, maybe years to come even if a successful vaccine comes. If a successful vaccine comes it's going to take time to implement to roll out to get accepted to get understanding. We don't even know the advocacy of it. How long would it give protection to whom? When you're protection for all people for older people for younger people these are. Big. Unknown. So we're going to have to take care and we're not even taking care of our. We don't have a vaccine, but we can't even save lives now because of the recklessness Chris. So. Whatever trump says keep in mind. This is a man that has led this country into the most profound danger. Willfully. Deliberately with complete contempt for. Truth. This issue on climate where he said yesterday exactly the same kind of thing that he said about the virus, it's going to get cooler don't worry about it. I don't know what the scientists say and if the Woodward right were writing a book right now, no doubt there'd be a tape with trump laughing about how he's making fun of that urgency as well. This is a gain for him, but it's a sickness and ensued absolute. Vulgarity any huge danger for countries? Jeffrey Sachs. Great to hear from you. Thank you for making time. Thank you for what you're doing next a new whistleblower complaint makes disturbing allegations about the conditions of one isis including unnecessary hysterectomies performed on migrant women. The nurse who came forward joins me next. Higher everyone it's joy Reid. I'm so excited to tell you about my new MSNBC show the readout, every weeknight I'm talking with the biggest news makers about the most pressing issues of our time like Joe. Biden the words, president matter, and so as President United States the first thing I'm GonNa do stand up and talk sense be honest with the American people level with them. Atlanta Mayor Keisha bottom we need as many voices as we can have. As possible, sounding the alarm encouraging people to wear masks and to take all precautions to follow the science and the data Senator Carmela Harris We send folks into war wearing camouflage. So what is going on here when you said camouflaged uniformed officers into a city and many more, you can listen to the readout as a podcast by searching for the readout. That's our ID ut one word wherever you're listening right now and subscribing for free. Thanks for listening. Yesterday will learn about a whistleblower, a nurse working at Georgia Immigrations and Customs Enforcement Ice Facility. Leveling, honestly, ghastly allegations chief among them that women in that facility migrant women say that doctor was performing unauthorized hysterectomies on immigrant women detained that facility, which again is privately run. Now, you might have seen this story zipping around social media understandably, and the allegations come from formal complaint that was actually filed with the watchdog at the Department of Homeland Security and the whistle is on the record is named. Her name is Don Wooten, she was employed by. That detention center and along with those unauthorized hysterectomies, the complaint also alleges the facility lacked protection against Corona virus for detained immigrants that detainees suffer from a general lack of medical care. We've been chasing this story all day along some of my colleagues here and NBC tonight we can report a lawyer named Benjamin o Soro representing women at that very facility told him BC news that indeed two of his clients received hysterectomies they believe may have been unnecessary and tonight. We hear on all Lynn spoke with another attorney who represents two different women who claimed they also had unnecessary hysterectomies while detained at this facility. That lawyer tells us that as many as fifteen immigrant women were given full or partial hysterectomies or other procedures for which no medical indication existed. Now we reached. With these accusations, they sent us a long statement disputing. Allegations and the implication that detainees are used for experimental medical procedures. They do say an independent office will investigate. These claims is also says that since two thousand eighteen, only two individuals facility were referred to certified credential medical professionals for hysterectomies. Of course, the referred is the question here. I should also tell you also reached out to private company that runs US facility, or they are not commenting on the specific allegations. They say, they have a strict zero tolerance policy for any kind of appropriate inappropriate behavior facilities and they refute any allegations of misconduct. Were hurt the nurse behind that whistleblower complaint who got this all started Don wooten and her lawyer John Whitty, join me now don wounded and John Whitney. It's great to have you both. Thank you very much. Ms I want to start with you and just ask you to tell us what you did. What was your job at this facility? When did you start working there? I was first employed. Irwin. Kinda detention center in twenty. Ten. been to this facility three on three different occasions. Are returned in. Twenty. Fourteen worked until twenty. Sixteen. On came back in two thousand nineteen. On I was a nurse, their medication nurse. Six eighty, six, p.. We did total detainee and totally inmate care will responsibilities there. You talk about in the complaint. Hearing from women who are detained they're talking about a specific doctor. Performing hysterectomies referring giving uterus collector tell us about how you heard about this doctor and what women said about their experiences with. You have detained women had several detained women on numerous occasions that would come to me and say Ms. Wooten. Historic to me. Why I had answers as to why they hit those procedures. and One lady while up to me here. This last time around between. October nineteen until July the second and she said, what is he is he the uterus collector? Does he collect uteruses? And I asked her what did she mean? And she says everybody that I've talked to has had a hysterectomy. And you just don't know what to say. I mean I. Don't I don't have a answer for why that they would come to me. and. I would say, is it a uterus later? How would you describe? How would you describe the standard of Care? The general sort of? Medical Environment in which these these migrants were detained. The Standard of care. was. It wasn't timely all the time. They would have. A procedure to where they will fill out forms to be seeing. Those forms shredded. They will be towed in area instances that you know there's nothing going on with them just on numerous occasions and as a human, you just don't treat people inhumane. I have a title as a licensed practical nurse and I protect my title with dignity to where I was raised by you treat people as you want to be treated. These sanitation especially doing Kobe the sanitation was horrible would have anything to sanitize with. We didn't have the proper PP so they didn't have the proper PP e they didn't have anything to sanitize. We'd while they were down in the dorms as Wael and when you ask You will be reprimand. Did you have cases of Covid in facility. What were the steps taken to deal with the outbreak in the country happened. When we first the first case of covert. Dan Facility it was covert is not here in the facility. Then we had another case and it was like it was not here in the facility we had several more cases and it was like cold was not here in the facility. You know there was not a proper separation of those detainees whenever they come in and you know there's a fourteen day incubation period. No, they weren't separated. You know whenever you question you didn't have the proper PP. I admit I refuse I have sickle sale. I have kids who have underlying conditions as well. They're asthmatics. So the protocol was not being fought. It was not properly reported to the health department was not properly reported to the CDC nor was it properly reported to sail? You were. Essentially demoted as my understanding from the complaint that from from a from a fulltime employees, sort of more kind of at will. Swing employees. Your contention is that was essentially punishment for your statements about the unsafe environment you felt there your resistance. To working when you had symptoms Zach is that is my understanding correct there. Yes. Mr Woody, you look like you want to say something. What do you want to? I did want to jump in and say that Ms Wooten has been a vocal. Critic of the conditions within the facility for you know for many months and the you know the the the the the the most recent retaliation of demoting her was you know to some extent was just a buildup of all of her per internal whistleblowing over the course of a month and especially since the beginning of covert. Do, you have further Mr Woody I. Wonder if people sincere the attorney attached this. And I know there's a number of groups that have worked together. On this complaint. We've now spoken to one one or on the record and other lawyer anonymously about women the women coming forward with these complaints. Do you expect that we will see? More public declarations of these allegations from women who actually experienced it. Well, it's a very challenging situation to come forward with information like that, and there's a lot of risks to to to way out Weather more will actually be able to summon the courage to talk about it certainly through their attorney is an excellent process is to make those disclosures and with the number of cases that that MS wooten others allude to There's a lot. There's a large population of these of these women immigrants who've who've had this who've been mistreated in this way assaulted Should you know there there's a pool there that could come forward. Let's hope they do ms miserable. What would you like to see happen in this facility? What are you? What do you think the? Adjust. Set of of of changes would look like. Unadjusted of changes would be a change management. If you change management, then there's a possibility, there will be corrective measures but if not changing management then I'm afraid that it would be hard to correct those measures. Don. Wooden, who's the whistle blower in this complaint against this facility ice facility run by Private Corporation in Georgia John Woody her attorney. Tremendous bravery coming forward MS wooden. Thank you so much for sharing your story tonight. I. Really appreciate it. You will make Chris. Up Next. We have updates on the case of Brianna Taylor the latest after this. was six months ago the Briana Taylor was shot and killed by police? Officers in Louisville Kentucky. A twenty, six year old emt referring from nursing school Taylor was in bed with her boyfriend when police entered her apartment on so-called no knock warrant meaning they barged in. Boyfriend who fired guns one gun once the couple believed it was a home invasion. Their home was being broken into the police them responded and shot Taylor five. Times. Justice for Briana Taylor has become a rallying cry. Organizers and activists in Louisville, and of course, across the nation protesters have taken to the streets to employ people to say her name to call the cops who killed Brianna Taylor to be arrested. Those police officers have not been arrested only one of them the officer who blindly shot ten rounds into Taylor's apartment has even been fired. But there are some welcome news today for her supporters the Mayor of Louisville announcing a twelve million dollar settlement with Taylor's family along with several police performs attached to that settlement including changes to house search warrants are approved and executed in the city. The city had already passed a ban on no walk warrants known as Brianna law back in June today. Taylor family and supporters hailed the settlement and the police reforms. But said Justice had not yet been done and they renewed their calls for the cops who killed her to be arrested. Today what we did here was to do what we could do to bring a little bit of Polish reform and it's just a start but we've finished the first now in a marathon and we got a lot more mouths to go to we achieve in cross that finish line. One of the remarkable aspects of this presidential race, which I keep coming back to is how little donald trump's approval rating has moved despite his utter failure deal with what is arguably the worst thing that's happened in the country and century. And a big part of the reason for that is as powerful and growing up ecosystem and disinformation that huge percent of voters are consuming whether via talk radio or facebook Youtube or on my message boards or misleading documentary is whatsapp messages on their phones even their local Republican candidate for Congress. And in that world don trump heroic truth teller he's fulfilled all his promises and public health officials are participants in a grand conspiracy against freedom-loving Americans and all that result in local news packages like this one out of Utah. Call for accident Friday morning and Saint George Several police officers on standby as many locals called concerns about coronavirus spikes overblown others calling the virus a hoax or stating asymmetric carrier simply do not exist and they cannot be forced to wear masks anywhere as citizens of the United States. If we want to wear a mask that's fine we can take care of. Ourselves some rally attending say they shouldn't ever wear masks if they have any medical issues or mental health concerns or they feel they simply can't breeze when George Floyd was saying I can't breathe and then he died and we're wearing a mask and we say I can't breathe but we're being forced anyway. So many stated that they believe in all cases now jeopardized. Parents demanding they have the right to decide what to do with their children. I'll tell you another reason to hate math most child molesters love them. Just set the record straight here coronavirus ours is not a hoax as symptomatic carriers do exist. Max squaring has nothing to do with the murder of joy. Floyd mask do not broadly jeopardize kids health, and for that last lady which is crucial. The one who talked about mask-wearing child molesters she was queuing the rhetoric of the Cunanan conspiracy theory. You've heard about Cunanan followers believe trump is working silently. He's not bragging about it just silently behind the scenes to expose a powerful cult of Satan worshipping sex trafficking pedophile 's led by Democrats and celebrities who harvest the blood of children whose day of reckoning wool rival. Intervening truth is that if you scratch the surface You see that are shockingly wide spectrum American voters are currently getting information that's biased were tilted but just totally entirely insane fabricated. In a new piece for Time Magazine, Charlotte Ultra writes about this growth conspiratorial thinking and our interviews with people who believe for example, that an evil cabal operates tunnels under the US. And torture children and drink their blood quote when asked where they found their information, almost all these voters cryptic go online woman said dig deeper at another the impervious to messaging advertising or data. They aren't just infected with conspiracy. The peer to be inoculated against reality I'm joined now by Charlotte. National correspondent at time, it's great to have you on Charlotte. The piece was unnerving but but tracked with lots of things I've read and even things. I've experienced in talking to people just talk about what what people talked about in your experience in talking to voters and the sort of universe of this information they conjure. So I think what was particularly unnerving about this was that I wasn't going up to people and asking them if they believe in q. I'm on a road trip across the country half the. I reporting on the election so I was trying to hear what people were thinking in terms of their vote and a remarkable proportion of these people that I interviewed in Wisconsin roughly one in five of brought up Q. or other. Cunanan related conspiracy theories or covid hoaxer conspiracy theories over the course of our conversations and when I ask them where they're finding this stuff, they say this a phrase that I think has become sort of the token of the conspiratorial thinking crowd, which is do your research that's become a little bit of a Red Flag phrase for me when I hear somebody saying do your research. It usually, they're out to spot a conspiracy theory of some kind what what's so striking about this I mean look. The disinformation smears. Old. Parts of politics from the founding right. If you look at two thousand and four John Kerry, right I think about swift boats. Okay. And the thing about that was it was attached to reality like John. Kerry did serve Vietnam. He was honest with boat there. and. The idea was that he acted poorly there. It wasn't that like John Kerry is secretly an alien who who is going to come devour children like the full alternative of the cosmology just doesn't even seem like a thing I don't even know how you penetrate. Right will that is what was so alarming about this reporting is that I like I said in the piece, these people appear to be totally inoculated against reality. There is no fact that you can present to them that will change their mind and one of the things that I learned in reporting about the psychology of conspiracy theories is that actually a presenting accurate facts to try to disprove conspiracy theory often has the opposite effect of actually a reinforcing the idea that there's some kind of conspiracy. That wants you to believe a certain thing. So that's what's really tricky about this is that presenting accurate information doesn't actually. Convince them now I mean that's right. That's and that's sort of universally true in lots lots of circumstances in this. In this case, I'm curious how the people you talked to you like how they Found their way into it. One of the things that that our colleagues Ben Collins Bridges drowsy have have been sort of writing about is the sort of extension of Cunanan, out past had been. There's lots of influencers on Instagram who've gotten into it like did you get a sense of people's routes into this? So when I asked about that, they were very vague. You know I didn't talk to people who said, Oh, I thought I followed this influence or that influenced her certainly everybody was getting their information on the Internet mostly on facebook but it seems like some people had actually moved off facebook and onto a Russian owned search engine but you know definitely, algorithms are the. Main reason why these conspiracy theories are having? So much of a big impact now than they did in the twentieth century before the Internet, I mean, there were people in the twentieth century who believed conspiracy theories like that the JFK assassination wasn't inside job or that the moon landing was hoax but those didn't really penetrate the mainstream because they weren't being fed these conspiracy theories online. The other. So the the more sort of Bernal version of this, which I also think is is interesting which is like there's the kind of Cunanan, just completely untethered from reality and sort of kind of cryptic almost now stick mystical way of interpreting the actual fence in the world, and then there's sort of the other kind of information which this comes from an economist story which I thought was interesting just talking to folks in Ohio. And this is he shoots his mouth off at least shows. He's on US Jason Pipe Fitter said he especially like Mr Trump's commitment to reducing the national debt. He's more country in the past ten presidents put together as an older jeff skimming wet concrete narrowed. He's made who is it China and Japan pair farmers billions of dollars. He got healthcare done which Democrats could never do. He built the wall if those last two sentences I mean it's one of your running right up my my opponent. You have sort of traditional exaggeration like my opponent wants government takeover healthcare nightstand stand against that. It's another one you say like I got healthcare reform done. Right. So this what what is particularly alarming about this this isn't just about the crazy stuff that these people believe it's also about what they don't believe. They do not believe the things that are reported in the news, and in fact, over the course of now almost a hundred and fifty conversations in Wisconsin in now in Michigan you know sometimes when I talk to people who are voting for trump I bring up some things that have been reported in in the news recently life for example, the losers in suckers comment that was reported in the Atlantic or the Bob Woodward tape of the president downplaying the coronavirus and people simply do not believe that it is true. and. That is the way that they explain away their support for trump. When when I bring up, you know more kind of. Sequential, policy? Achievements or non-achievements they simply do not believe what I'm saying that's I think one of the ways that this mindset expands beyond the belief in the Kabbalah in into a broader unreality that's affecting the electorate. The thing that's so fascinating. Here it is that we all form on all around the world based on trust relationships, people watching Michaud presumably think I'm not lying to them. And like for instance I think he actually interviewed the people you interviewed like I trust that I trust. That's what happened and if you end up trusting the wrong people, it's amazing. How bad beliefs can end up how untethered they are Charlotte alter who did a great piece is doing great work. Thank you for your time tonight. Thanks for having me Chris. That does it for all in you can catch us every weeknight at eight o'clock on MSNBC. Don't forget to like us on facebook that's facebook dot com slash all in with. Chris.
Tuskegee Airmen: American Heroes
"Hey, Mario Lopez here. And I really hope you can check out my new podcast. Listen tomorrow. LTM definitely side of me that you've never seen before. So please, listen and subscribe at apple podcasts or on the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Welcome to stuff, you should know from how stuff works dot com. Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. In those Charles w Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry over there. So this is stuff, you should know about the Tyskie airman. That's right. One of our and every year, we try to do a black history month podcast at least one and did mean to keep everyone on suspense this year. Right here at the end of the month. But this one we were getting this one put together. This is a good one. Yeah. And it's I mean, this is what we typically like to do stuff. That's like a very little known history. But I would say Tuskegee airmen is is does not fall into the little known category out at all yet still undersung. I think even after two not very good feature films. Did you see any of them? I the only one I'm familiar with was I think it's just called Tuskegee airman, and I kept confusing. Memphis Belle yet to ski airmen was an HBO movie with Larry Fishburne in other Malcolm Jamal Warner. I think yeah. Yeah. Could see in him. Sure. Always. But I mean that one was okay. But I think better than the red tails movie was a or swissamerica good, which is a shame. Sure. But speaking of shame. Let's talk about how the Tyskie airman retreated just to get started. We should kind of briefly go over like the history of African Americans in the military because where we really pick up with our story the inter-war period between more one in World War Two the military was very much segregated still officially just like America. Was it was law. Segregation was law time. But that's not to say that African Americans hadn't served in the military in the US previously. I in some pretty substantial roles to. Yeah. I mean, dating back to like when they were not even considered Americans. Like when when I mean, I keep wanting to say black Americans, but they were not considered that like during the revolutionary war on both sides, actually as you'll learn in a short stuff. Yeah. About black loyalists is interesting that slaves fought for and against the revolution. Uh-huh. Really interesting all the way up through. And you know, we should do podcasts on a lot of these things. But they fought in the war of eighteen twelve they fought as the buffalo soldiers in many of the conflicts against native Americans all the way up through World War One where they joined the army, despite the fact that there was segregation at home and in the military, notably the Harlem hell fighters who fought with the French. And even though Americans did not fully recognize that is an accomplishment, the French government did ironically. Yeah, if if that sounds kind of weird to you the of the American military had an all black regiment and said here, you take them to to France and Francis. Like sure we'll take a bull use them. Right. And awarded them the Quanta Geir for heroism in combat which is like if you'll remember our native American code talker episode. Yeah. Free France, especially World War One had kind of a history of awarding and recognizing. Bravery among minorities that were just totally Sean to the United States. You know? Yeah. And I mean, those even a a study conducted by the army work halogen nineteen twenty five about the fitness and suitability of black soldiers in the military. And it was just it was brutal and racist in you know, just said the worst things you could imagine about the the lack of fitness for a black man to serve for the Americans in the American military. Yeah. And I think this army war college study was basically just a an official position paper that that summed up the sentiments right among military officers and most of the military at the time, then they wanted to get it down on paper is like an official position. So that that it wouldn't be a road that they could say this is the military's official position. Yeah, I'm black people. And essentially what it said was black people are not intellectually capable of. Receiving like theoretical training. They they can probably be, you know, worked into like combat troops. But it's gonna take a lot more effort, and you really have to dumb it down. And then maybe you can organize them into combat troop. But really we don't have high hopes for this. So we should probably just not mess with the whole thing. And just keep it in all white military. Yeah. Now that was a nineteen twenty five and despite all of this. There were still black soldiers who achieved in the military, most notably. In the reason we bring this this gentleman up Benjamin o'day the senior in nineteen forty became the first black general in the US military. He figures prominently in the ski airman story in that his son Benjamin Davis junior. Well, we'll we'll tell you what he did. But he figured very prominently in the formation in story of the Tyskie airman. Yeah. He's huge. He's one of the leading figures, and he gets most of the glory in the press. And everything. But there are plenty of others who served quite valiantly. Yes. So that that's like the briefest of summations. A definitely think we should do one on the buffalo soldiers at some point totes agree. Like, I don't understand why. Bob Marley, drew that that blind between process in buffalo soldiers. I'm not kidding. I know this sounds like a hilarious thing. Josh would say I have always always wondered that. Like, what is he talking about? What's the, you know, where they where they rosters or something like that? Or is it do they have the spirit of the roster. Vice versa. I I'd love to get to the bottom of that. All right. Let's do. Okay. All right. I'm excited. So that brings us to World War Two. And like you said before segregation is still the law in the United States race racism was rampant and still isn't a lot of places. In in this country, but back then very much rampant. And despite all that there were still plenty of African Americans who wanted to be in the army and wanted to fly planes, and this is pre air force. It was called the the army air corps. Yes. And we should say like this was extremely prestigious to be in the army air corps is far and away the most prestigious branch of the military, although it wasn't technically it's own branch. But the the it was the most prestigious part of the military because it was widely considered and rightfully so you had to be really really sharp, really smart really quick on your toes and just really large and in charge basically to fly planes in the military. It was still pretty new. It was a fairly new thing and the the whole the whole world. But also the US really looked up to aviators at the time because this is at a time where if you flew across country, you just. You you just made history kind of thing. Right. So to to to be a part of the army air corps that was that's a sweet Plum right there. Yeah. And so, you know, we we move over to Alabama at the to ski institute in Tuscany. And this was a place where you if you were a black American, and he wanted to go to college and get a higher education. That was a great place to start founded in eighteen eighty one by Lewis Adams and Booker T Washington during this period, they had something called the civilian pilot training program, which is it was established basically to get a pool of pilots with experience people who could train pilots in the United States. And there were black colleges. Participating in this program to ski was one of them yet the Howard University also had a program there were also like by this time. There was some. Black aviation history that had been established and it was small, but it was really proud and rightfully so. Because if you were an African American, and you said, you know, what I really look up to the all these pilots. Sue, I want to go be a pilot. The first store you went to gut slammed in your face next door. You went to slam in your face. And again, like the idea that black people couldn't learn how to fly a plane. So how are you going to let one fly planes to try to teach them? What's the point? It's also probably pretty dangerous and expensive like you could not as an African American get into a flight school. And so some of these earliest African American pilots in aviation history. In like, the say like the twenties early thirties like some of them were self taught. There's a guy s c Alfred Anderson who taught himself how to fly and land planes because no flight school would teach him. No, white pilots would teach him. He had to save up by zone plane in teach himself, and he became a legend. He's known as the father of black aviation in America. Yeah. And there's a like you said a very small, but proud list Bessie. Coleman was a black woman. New went to France to learn to fly. She was black end native American. Yeah. We should she should get her an upset to in one thousand nine thirty two James banning and Thomas Allen became the first black pilots to fly across the US from LA to New York, and they as well at least banning could not go to flight school. So he basically found a white pilot who had give him private lessons, which is pretty remarkable. And the cool thing about this story is they it costs a lot of money to fly across the country. Any point? So they would stop in black communities and raise money, basically and say, hey, get, you know, donate some cash you can sign our airplane, and that will allow us to buy fuel to get to the next stop as we go across country. Yeah. So they became the first black pilots to fly all the way across the US as a result, which is a pretty great. But it was like it was it was stories like this and people like these who were profiled in the black press at the time. The I don't want to say, I guess the press was pretty much segregated at least for all practical purposes, African America had its own press. And I guess the the standard establishment press was just writing stories about white people only or things that related to white people. So African Americans had their own press so stories of people like this spread throughout the country, and inspired like whole new generations of pilots, and also inspired like you said that. Husky institute and Howard University and some other private schools like one form by Cornelis coffee in willa Brown and Chicago to actually start training, black pilots. And so this is a this is already established by the time. The drum beat the earliest drumbeat to World War Two started. And the the US led by Franklin Roosevelt said we need to get the civilian pilot training program going because we need a pool of people who already know how to fly in case we need to turn them into military pilots as well. Yeah. And the the idea here with these with the black journalists in newspapers was here's what we want. You know, there's v for victory slogan and campaign. Let's start up something and get the word out called the double v campaign, which is basically victory in Europe. But also for black soldiers victory at home in trying to make a dent in discrimination and racism, if we go over there, and we can fight and weakened fly play. Lanes in serve our country. Maybe that might make a difference when we come back home that we were, you know, distinguished with our military service. So that was the double v campaign trying to get victory at home against racism as well as in Europe on the ground with military, and none of this might have happened. Had it not been for one Eleanor Roosevelt. Maybe I should take a break their out. Nice cliffhanger. Yeah. What is on a Roosevelt have to do with all this? We'll find out in just a minute. Hey, everybody, we want to tell you about a vines podcast. That is not your typical personal finance podcast is called how to money. Yeah. It's really, you know, what this is a very like stuff, you should know like show, these guys met, and Joel are awesome. They're really cool guys. They're here in Atlanta. And they break down finance in a way, that's fun and funny easy to understand. If you don't think, you know, anything about financed, and this is the show for you. Yeah. Like ways to cut your grocery Bill, man. His family of five spend five bucks a meal, that's a one dollar per person. Or why your house is an awful investment? It's just really interesting stuff. That's super approachable to see can listen subscribe on apple podcasts iheartradio app. Wherever you get your podcast. Just search for how to money. Hurry, chuck. So I mean, I'm just going to say it Eleanor Roosevelt. Give it up Yemen. I mean, she was a great lady in a lot of ways. But what she did in the case of the eventual Tuskegee airmen was she visited Tuskegee they had a training airfield called moten field. Imo T O N yet. Because remember this is like they're they're they're flying program that they already established. Yes. So she is she's watching the pilots take off fly around land. And she was like good audited one of those planes that is in Eleanor Roosevelt, man. And they said sure, so she went up with an African American pilot. She she went up with that offered. Anderson the self taught father of aviation. Yeah. And everything went great. And she had a apparently a good time went back home and got in her husband's ear and was like, hey, these these guys can fly planes. They're doing. Great job there fit for military service. So let's let's get this thing going earnest, and he did so in January of nineteen forty one. So here's the thing. This is what I'm unclear on. I like, it's it's doubtless that Eleanor Roosevelt played a role in making sure that this this actually happened that that African American pilots were eligible to fly for the US military the army air court, right? But the timing of it I can't quite suss out either. The the US military said, yeah, we're going to establish a black pilots training program at Tuskegee a in January nineteen forty one. And then Eleanor Roosevelt showed up a couple of months later to make sure that this actually happened or she showed up, and then they established it I can't quite suss that out. But either way she's a pretty cool lady. Like, she went down and saw for herself. And then came back and said, hey. We really should make this happen. Or she knew that this was happening. But also could see people just dragging their feet. So she went down to shine light on the whole proc- the project, and it kind of took off from there if you'll forgive the pun. Either way she she played some sort of pretty cool role in in getting it going. Yeah. In in when it first started. There was sort of a joint affair between Tuskegee in the army air corps as far as providing funding and equipment personnel. They all sort of chipped in a little bit. There were flying a few different planes for training. One biplane the steersman PT seventeen. Eventually they were able to move over to the Tuskegee army airfield a few miles away from Moton field where they had access to the p forty warhawks. And then they were like now we're talking right? But also, I mean the initial primary training at Moton field was this kind of quasi university military training almost like an ROTC air training program. And then once you graduated from primary you moved over to the army field, and you were full on on a military base in military life yet, and this this this wasn't the first time. That black pilots tried to apply like pre Tuskegee. They were applying recruits were applying and getting rejected every time they tried to get into the air corps. Eventually the in double ACP got involved. A lawsuit was filed n even after that. When they started admitting black men into the air corps. It was ten cadets every five weeks. So they were you know, I it looks like they were purposefully just sort of stymying the process a red tape and bureaucracy to still not allow them to train. Yeah. In initially. So that that lawsuit was by Howard University student named Yancey Williams. He wanted to be a two straight up army air corps, cadet and NWC p backed back the lawsuit and the result was pantley. The the military saying, okay, we'll just start a segregated all black pilot program where the NWC P in most black leader. Ship wanted just integration in the army air corps. So they were like, okay, fine. We'll take it. But we're not like this is not what we were were going for. But we'll take this is better than nothing. I guess. Yeah. That's that's probably good way to put it. But the program starts up internist, however few cadets, they were allowing it started to build up. These men are getting trained men from the north came down. And this is you know, this is an Alabama during the Jim crow era. And there are there's one documentary called they fought two wars, which basically was like, you know, they're getting trained third serving their country. And then they go out like on the weekend. Maybe for a little Aren are and then they're met by the southern whites of Alabama. Who basically, you know, treated him exactly how you'd expect? There was even a petition to end the program. Just because there were like, they're so many black men in our town. Now, we don't want them in our community. Right. Surely something. Bad will happen to our community because of this. There was also apparently at least one incident where black military police were disarmed by white locals around to ski civilians. Yeah. Who just refused to recognize that they had any authority over them whatsoever. Military police are not and the the at the time this this happened early on the commander of the of the base Ellison James Ellison, Major James Ellison was he protested very loudly and very vocally and said this is messed up I won't stand for this. And they said, hey Ellison. Yeah. We need somebody who is on the side of the recruits, but maybe not quite so much of a true believer. So you come over here with us, and we're going to relieve you your post and instead they brought in a guy named Colonel knoll perish. And he was maybe a little less gung ho about civil rights and equality and desegregation. He he very much withstood and stood up with the segregationist policies of the military and fight against it. But within this framework, he's very much credited for being very fair, very even-handed and giving like full throated legitimately good quality training to these black recruits Tuskegee like he wasn't. They weren't getting like subpar or less than adequate training compared to their white counterparts. Elsewhere. They were getting just as good training to be trained. Like, he was taking it seriously news being fair about it. So he's he's respected for for that to to have overseen this this this project, I guess fairly rather than he very easily could have gone to the other side dragged his feet to or put up unnecessary roadblocks and obstacles to but he did. Yeah. In one of the I guess you could call it. One of this silver linings of the segregation in the military was there was already a the ninety ninth pursuit squadron was already established which were black cadets to get training on maintenance in tech support for for the for the air patrol. So they were already in place. So by the time Tuskegee gets rolling, and these cadets are being sent into learn to fly they were like, let's just give them the ninety ninth pursuit squadron. So it was basically an all black unit from the maintenance to the to the technical support to the pilots that were training, obviously, not the instructors. But I get the feeling, you know, from research that lent some sort of a kind of led to come rotary in that they had their own guys on the ground and training, you know. Oh, yeah. Yeah. For sure I mean, like, it was an all basically in all black squadron and not all the commanders or. Trainers were white like that my favorite guy. Chief Alfred Anderson. He was the ground commander in chief that self taught father of aviation. Yeah. He he was the head of the ground commanders at Tuskegee. So there was a mixed. But one of the things I think you kinda hit upon that gets overlooked is when you talk about to ski and the Tyskie airman you're talking about four hundred defy hundred pilots. Fighter pilots typically that are thought of as a Tuskegee airman. But there were so many more people that made up like this whole project this whole movement. Basically that I think there was something like twelve thousand like people trained in aviation through the the that are really technically to ski airman right there. They are considered and they get overlooked a lot because the fighter pilots get all the glory. Sure. But I mean, these all these people played a huge significant role in the whole thing. Yeah. So we mentioned at the onset the first African American general Benjamin Davis senior, and that his son figured prominently. Yeah. So that's been junior. He comes in. He went to he followed in dad's footsteps, he went to West Point where you know, despite it was sort of like lords of discipline sort of seeing their oh, man. I forgot about that book. Yeah. Man. Good. Good movie brutal to watch. But it really good movie. But Davis basically went to West Point didn't give a roommate made them eat by himself. They say that he was like literally not spoken to by anybody unless they absolutely had to speak to him yet. He persevered through all this. He graduated and went to teach at Tuskegee instead of going to command for enlisted troops. So it was a bit of serendipity that he ended up there. I think. Kind of right at the same time this air corps began which is really really kind of cool. Yeah. One of the first things he did was as he was. I think he became the commander of the ninety ninth pursuit squadron. He also was one of their first graduates. He's in the first class to graduate from flight school there. So I don't know that he had much flight training prior to that. But he went and learned became pretty distinguished as a pilot either way, but he he was immediately assigned the ninety ninth pursuit squadron. He was in charge of it, which is pretty cool. Right. So as the as the the Tuskegee airman sorted to distinguish themselves, which we'll talk about more in a minute Davis kind of became distinguished as well because he was leading the whole show. Yeah. And you know, he he had been through West Point. He knew what the deal was. He was like he knew that. There was a lot more riding on this than just forming an air squadron. He was like black people all around the country are looking at us. They're banking on our success. We have to like we have to be better than the best. And so he was really tough he tough but fair, but he would not put up with with anything that took away from their alternate goal, which was to be the best airman in the country black or white. Apparently, there were black pilots who would wash out of the program that historian say like, you know, if that was the white pilot he would have been allowed to keep going like, that's how high the standard was that Davis set for the Tuskegee airmen right while it wasn't just Davis. I think I think they were saying like they were unfairly not giving their wings, whereas white pilot elsewhere in another base on undergoing training wooden have washed out. So some of the pilots that that did wash out probably did because they were being held to unfair racist. Standards not necessarily by Davis. But by some of the white commanders and trainers, you see what I'm saying. Yeah. But I saw where Davis was very quick to give someone that all star. If they didn't think they were living up to their position. Yes. So the upshot of that though, Chuck was that the the people who graduated from this program at Tuskegee or really, really good pilots. Yeah. I mean, really, good pilots. They were just held to whether fair or unfair higher standards. They had to prove themselves more than say their white counterparts at other bases. And so the ones who actually did manage graduate were just as good as it got. But what's sad is for the people who washed out, they might not have washed out of some of the other program. Yeah. Like if they had been white elsewhere in another program. So then of itself is is kind of demoralizing, but what really gets you when you step back and realize like the the the men who. Were going through pilot training program where the face of black America. Yeah. And so not only were they being watched by, you know, by racists whites and supportive whites to, but but say from racist whites to just watch for them to fail. I think Henry l Stimson who was the secretary of war said sure, we're going to give him a shot, but I expect nothing less than disaster to be produced by this. And I think he meant like literal disaster like planes, crashing everywhere. Kind of thing. So not only did you have like that kind of observation going on you at all time. You also carried with you, the hopes and dreams and expectations of black America and not just black Americans something big in a morphism vaguely that but your family and your church group and your community back home. We're all like pulling for you. But also really expecting everything from you. And if you graduated that was huge if. If you washed out, I'm sure that was equally huge in the other direction. Yes. So March nineteen forty two was when the first class of cadets, graduated it would take another like four months or so five months to get enough pilots graduating to the program that they were a full fighter squadron and the early results. You know, there were there were very high ranking US officials that were pretty impressed early on including that secretary of war Stimpson that you you talked about the predicted disaster. Yeah, he had a change of heart. Yeah. He visited Tuskegee and said the outfit looks as good as any other ever seen Major General James Julio said from results so far obtained is believed that the squadron will give an excellent account of it self in combat and that it will be a credit to its race and Americans everywhere. And despite this it still took a long time to get the full confidence to actually send them into the theater of war in Europe. Well, yeah. And I don't even know if I was confidence I think, well, I guess it was confidence in a way. But there were other commanders of at the time. They call them air forces where it was like squadrons and groups just put together like a huge mass of of air corps subdivisions were called air forces at the time. So if you were running the show in an airforce you'd be like, I don't want them. I don't want them. And all of them are saying, I don't want them you they couldn't give them away. So they were just stuck in America while the United States had already joined World War Two and was all fighting in places like North Africa and the Mediterranean. Yeah. And I think, you know, I don't know if this is confirmed, but some say that Eleanor Roosevelt got in her husband's ear once again. And finally in what April nineteen forty three. They got their first orders the ninety ninth to go to North Africa in nineteen forty three. Which was what is that like two years after the first graduating class? Yeah. So, you know, the upshot to this those they're still training this. Time. Right, right. There's just getting better and better and training. But can you imagine like having to sit around and wait now now waiting for their arms, you get out there? Yeah. So some of the first assignments they got when they were running sorties off of North Africa. They were there was an island called panatela. I believe in a kneecap. It's Pantelleria Pantelleria. Wow. That was playoff. Thank you for correct. Yes. Pantelleria was occupied by the Italian army, and they gave up they surrendered the island without any ground forces having to land because the Tuskegee airmen were bombing them so bad. They were sent on dive bombing campaigns, and that usually consists of attacking a ground position, whether it's like some sort of transport pl- like transport planes and an airfield or railcars, or you know, gas or water infrastructure just stuff to make the enemy rather uncomfortable or enable to operate in this place that they've occupied and very rarely requires any kind of aerial dogfighting. Like, we think of with fighter pilots, it's more just attacking the enemy where they are rather than trying to battle for domination of the skies. That's what a dog fight is. It's what fighter to fighter combat is. Yes. So this is different. So you're not going to encounter other fighters typically, so you're not gonna have as many kills. They don't count like blowing up a set of railcars as a kill if to shoot another fighter plane out of the sky. And that's what they really count when you're a fighter pilot. But if you're not being assigned, those kind of sorties, you're not going to rack up kills like that. So everybody understood this this was fine. But apparently somebody was talking to the press back in America and ended up getting a story out of time magazine that questioned the ninety ninth fighter squadrons bravery because they've been flying all sorts of sorties. But where we're all their kills all these other white pilots had all these kills. Where was the airman's kills and the the context of that wasn't put into that that magazine? So what the rest of America read was the Tuskegee airmen are cowards. And all of a sudden Benjamin Davis junior finds himself being called back to Washington to explain why. His squadron are being called cowards in the national press the trite so was pick that up right after this message because things changed in January of nineteen forty four. Most serial killers don't make any effort to involve the media or investigators. They're very secretive. They don't wanna tension. They almost want their crimes to go notice. But the idea of committing a crime, and then calling up the police and bragging about it. That's a whole 'nother level of terror. Dear editor, this is only speaking. If you do not print the cipher by the afternoon of Friday first of August. I will go on kill rampage Friday night. L cruise around all weekend killing lone people in the night and move on to kill again. The best part of it is that when I die. I'll be reborn in paradise in all that I have killed will become my slaves. From the creators of Atlanta monster come season two. This is monster zodiac killer. Listen and subscribe at apple podcasts or on the iheartradio app. All right. So the Tyskie airman or over there doing these, you know, they're dropping bombs. They did get a little bit of fighter to fighter action. But not enough. You know to toward the press off this is despite the fact that they had virtually you know, there were still segregated. You know, what they usually did was say here, let's mix in these these new guys with some experience guys, and they can sort of mentor them and help them out because it was segregated. They kept them separate and yet they still persevere through. All this like you said before the break Davis comes home to the US to sort of battle these reports. And then things took a real change in January of nineteen forty four. There was a a patrol unit of twelve planes flying over on CO, and they spotted these German fighters just like like maverick and goose in topgun, although they were just training, right? Never any real battle in top gun. Right. No. They there wasn't a battle. But they did engage that MiG remember flew upside down and flipped him off and took a polaroid so dumb. So doing a sequel to you know. Like a sequel with Tom Cruise and. Yeah, really. Yeah. Yeah. I it's exactly what you'd think. It's Tom Cruise is. Now the veteran instructor and a in a young maverick comes under his watch. No boy, and he's young maverick can be. I don't even know. I'm not even sure. But it's I'm sure it's one of those deals where you know. Cruz gets to say like, I was you. Yeah. I'm gonna toss Christian Navarro's hat in the ring. How about that? They've already cast it. But you never know. Maybe maybe we've got some pull Chuck, and we just simply y-yeah Christian if you're listening. We're rooting for you, my friend. So they see these German fighters these twelve planes, and they're like, let's go get them fellas. And they get into a dogfight pretty legendary dogfight and they record five kills in about four or five minutes. No best. No losses. That's a big one too. Yeah. And it was a very big deal for the ninety ninth after that. And this was like after these reports had come into the US, they weren't like they were fairly dejected, but that made them, Hungary, or they're never, and this is why they sort of flung themselves headlong into this attack. And they made the news, and they became known all of a sudden as these pilots, it would really go after the Germans they have a high kill rate, and it was a big deal. Yes. So there's two other things. So not only were they were they not being assigned missions typically that would wreck up high kill rate. So how can you criticize him for that? But Secondly, when they were in North Africa and their first assignment, they were given really old really obsolete planes, and they were when they did engage German, fighter pilots. They were out outclassed as far as the planes are concerned, and they were still taking out Germans in dogfights. So like they had a lot going against them and still manage to prove themselves. And then something really big change. They got transferred over to the I believe the fifteenth air force, and the ninety ninth the hundredth the three hundred I in the three hundred second the four to ski fighter pilot squadrons were all brought together under the three hundred and thirty second fighter group under the command. Now of Benjamin o Davis junior is a Colonel at this point. Yep. Who and then placed under the fifteenth air force and the the the Benjamin Davis. Junior and the guy who headed up the fifteenth air force, they they had the same philosophy for the kinds of assignments that the ski airman would be carrying out from now, which we're bomber escorts. And it was don't leave the bomber squadron. Like when you're escorting bombers, that's the point. You don't you don't peel off in chase after any other jets that like any German jets that are coming toward you, and there were German jets, but German fighter planes, and you don't chase them away. You just stay with the the bombers that your point. And that's another thing. That's not like you're not going to rack up a ton of kills in that respect. Yeah. I'm sure it was tough like especially given their reputation. They wanted to go shoot down German planes. Exactly Davis is like no man, you got to like, you gotta be disciplined in these these bombers are under threat, and you gotta stick with them. And so as a result of this. They developed a really great reputation for for safely escorting bombers. To their destination. I mean, if you're a part of a bomber fleet, you're flying behind enemy lines to go bomb a city or an oil refinery or something like that. And the purpose of these planes is not to shoot other planes out of the sky, it's to drop bombs so you need fighter jets to escort you for fighter planes to escort you to these drop sites and shoot away any other planes that are going to try to shoot you out of the sky. So it's pretty hairy. But it's also like you're protecting the bombers that's the point. So the reputation that they developed Chuck actually became legendary. There was a false a false myth that generated around it. But one that even when you peel away the myth and look at reality. It's still pretty impressive. And the other thing that helped to was in nineteen forty four. You know, he mentioned that they were flying. I mean, they weren't obsolete planes. They were just not as good as what they were flying against right? They finally get the p fifty one. Stang, and they were like now we're talking dudes like this is this is go time really cool airplane. One of my favorites of all time is at fifty one Mustang. That's the World War Two fighter plane that everybody thinks of. Yeah. I mean, it's it's I wanna use words here. I can't use on the show to describe it because I get so excited about it. But it's pretty sweet. So they now finally had and you did mention the jet. You know, the me the EMMY two six two from Germany was the the first jet that used in combat like that. And if you look at this thing, it looks like I would rather have the Mustang. This thing looks dangerous to me, and may well have been I don't know much about it. Oh, you mean to be like the pilot of it? He had it was just an early small jet. Like, I can't. I don't know. It was probably pretty scary apply. Or maybe it was great. I don't know. I'm sure it's thrilling, but the three thirty second now with their p fifty ones they start painting there too. You know, we mentioned the movie red tails that can comes from what they did on their wing they painted their the tale of their plane red and that they became known for that. It was very distinguishable from the air. And there are a lot of bomber pilots. Who were like, we want these red tales because these guys are awesome. And some of them didn't even know that they were black pilots. They just knew that they were read tales. Right. And and again, the red tails had developed. Good reputation for escorting bombers to their bomb sites. And what was rank what did they lose? I know the for many many years they said they never lost a bomber which is not true. They didn't one of the newspapers. And Chicago the Chicago defender published a story nineteen forty five that of more than two hundred bomber escort missions, the Tuskegee, airmen never lost. A bomber is in people not the airman. But that was the that was the myth that developed that they never lost a bomber that is basically impossible over something like two hundred missions. Yeah. But that's the myth that stood for like fifty sixty years something like that. And then finally in story with the air force like actually dug in and did the the shoe leather work on it and found. No, actually, they did loosen bombers they lost something like I think twenty six or twenty seven. Embalmers but out of the two hundred something missions that is still a ridiculously small amount. Yeah. And that other squadrons and fighter groups in the fifteenth air force, they average something like forty seven. So almost double what the Tuskegee airmen saw losses. So they they paltry losses. But yeah, the idea that they just wouldn't have ever lost. A bomber is it's it's impossible. You just couldn't lose a bomber over that many mission. Yeah. So you know, we all know how World War Two inns. Spoiler alert, the the allies the allies did their job. And so the Tyskie airman start to get sent home with other troops over the years. And here's the you know that the double v campaign they were hoping they come home, and they are more accepted in they might even be revered. They might get good jobs. They might become commercial airline pilots. None of those things happened. Very sadly that did not equipped to a quality back home. Which is one of the true. Like black is on this country's history. You know? Yeah. Some of them. I mean. Yeah. That was. It should have just automatically trigger. Well, they shouldn't have this should have never happened in the first place. Right. The dragging the feet on segregation. And making African America jump through these hoops like this rather than just integrating like making a segregated air air corps, squadron I and lending improve selves like that. And then once they prove themselves still not opening doors or anything like that it it that it should have never happened. But the fact that it didn't happen automatically is pretty pretty shameful. It did they it's not like they weren't successful though. They laid the groundwork. And they laid the foundation, and they began the momentum for a lot of people say the civil rights movement that the the what they the groundwork that they laid the the way that they changed America's minds about black people in general like oh. Actually can fly planes, and oh, they can't shoot Germans out of the sky. Oh, look at this. They can actually do better at bomber escorts than white counterparts. Right. That change in mentality that they were able to take advantage of in this circumstance in history that changed everything. So they were very much successful in that. It's just shameful that they had to just keep fighting and keep pressing on that this was really just the first step rather than the last. Yeah, for sure. But I mean, I think that wording is is perfect. It was the groundwork. Absolutely. The foundation foundational groundwork was laid as for Colonel Davis. He after the war in nineteen forty eight is when Truman ended segregation in the military. Colonel Davis advised on that integration. And had a great career. He retired in nineteen seventy and in nineteen ninety eight very cool was made an honorary general of the air force four star general so he'd made it to Lieutenant General before he retired. Yeah. And I think a four star Lieutenant General and then Clinton advanced him to general. So he was a four star general of their force after retirement. That's right. Yeah. Pretty great story. Yeah. It is a pretty great story. There was also something called the Freeman field. Mutiny was is kind of happening in the off to the side. The the ski airman also formed a bombo dear group. A bomber group of bomber pilots that never saw any action but saw a lot of racism and segregation in back at home during training. And there was one event that's called the Freeman field mutiny where they basically protested Sigara gated officers clubs segregated an unequal officers clubs and the way that they protested it through basically, civil disobedience, but in the military at a time when you could be executed for disobeying direct order, which they were given they stood up for their civil rights. And that's another way that the another thing that's pointed to as laying the foundation for the civil rights movement, peaceful civil disobedience and that actually came out of the ski airman's story as well. Absolutely good stuff. Good stuff. Check. This is a good idea to cover this one. Yeah. I mean, this was long overdue. But like I said, I don't think we had an article on the house before excite. So we just went out and headed to commissioned on our own nice work. Well, let's see if you wanna know more about the Tyskie airman apparently go watch a couple of so-so movies. There's some documentaries out there. One of them's called they fought two wars, which is perfectly titled. And there's also I think in American experience is a lot of stuff. Start reading go to to ski Alabama. Do all this stuff. Okay. Yes. And since I said do all that stuff is time for listener, man. I'm going to call this the tit project. Hey, guys, just listened to the elephant episode and Josh mentioned that typically groups of birds endear don't actually know each other like elephants in recognize one from the other than ever. I just read an article in a recent Audubon magazine, I know he said typically, but I wanted to point you towards the study that is really interesting. The with them tit project in Britain. It is a very long running study where they're looking at the relationships between tits in Britain. And they've found that they run in social groups and appear to have friends I highly recommend giving read apparently these guys must recognize each other. And I actually read it, and that's why I'm recommending it. Because it's a really great article. It's it's called. It's from Audubon magazine, Audubon dot com or I'm sorry dot org. The surprising connection between birds Facebook and other social networks, very cool article. So that is from maranda and Duluth Minnesota nice. You can go read then have fun fun fun on the autobahn magazine until daddy takes your laptop away. That was great Chuck. I don't think we can improve on that. So we're just going to say if you wanna get in touch with us. You can join us on all of our social media networks to stuff, you should know dot com. It's basically the clearinghouse for links to find us hanging out on the soc Meads. And you can also send us an Email send it to stuff podcast at. That's the at symbol. How stuff works dot com. For more on this and bounds of other topics. Visit how stuff works dot com. It's the Ron burgundy podcasts. It's the Ron burgundy podcast. Guess what? I got up podcast, and you don't guess what? I got up podcast, and you don't Ron burgundy. Podcast. This is Ron burgundy reminding you to tune into my new podcast brought to you by Sharman toilet paper, the best in the biz. It's made by some good guys for some good drips to Duesseldorf. If you know what I mean, go to the store and pick up a role, you can't mess. This one up.
Aviation Films II
"Correct role. Again, it's not. Pick up your number one now Renwick lingering docks. I've got. Got. Hello and welcome back to the green dot as podcast for anyone and everyone who loves aviation, the green dot sponsored by GE aviation. My name is Hal, Brian. I am one of your hosts on the green dot. I'm yea senior editor for print and digital content and publications here on my left. I'm Chris energy. I'm the museum programs coordinator over there across the table scribbling notes, furiously. Tom sharpen tier government relations director. Now this episode is a sequel our first first sequel episode, and that's only fitting when you talk about sequels, you think movies, and that's exactly what this is. This is part two of aviation movies, but this time we brought in a reinforcement, I returning guest is your second time on the show Connor Madison are what's your job title? Staff Ataka for director of visual three. Sounds good. Artistic rule of thirds. 'isms that. All right. Well, Connor, welcome back. Thanks. We had so much fun doing this. The first time around and we got some of the best engagement responses to the. The first movie episode people even wrote in, we'll, we'll hit those as we as we go through the show, hopefully, but the people that were kind of to write it and say, what about this? What about that one? But you know, I, I think at least arguably the biggest movie that we referred to briefly in last episode, but we didn't really go into is one of the all time classics of of aviation films, especially sort of the non war generally non more aviation films, and that's the great WALDO pepper love it. The first time I ever saw that movie was actually here we're showing in the in the sky scape theater. That was the first first movie. We showed this guy scape theater for our monthly movie series for the museum. That's right. Yeah, we had the standard pulled out and everything tiger moth out there to the tiger moth pies. Interesting role Novi. So a great Robert Redford one of his best in my opinion, Susan Sarandon, and it's Robert Redford is sort of a braggadocious barnstorm pilot who may or may not have flown with distinction in World War One. It's an interesting movie. It's kind of it to me, it's I, I call it a double period piece because it's made in the seventies, and it's got some of that seventies movie vibe, but but set in the nineteen twenties. You know, like something like this thing. So fantastic flying the you mentioned the standard j one, the sop with camel and Fokker triplane replicas and then it it. It's also a cool look into the world of making a nation movies because the last I don't know what is it? Maybe third quarter of it is about Robert Redford flying world. One worm fighter in a movie that they're making about about the great war and all the the dogfight scenes of. Course the, he's not the black baron, but the the, the villain, the villain, German pilot clearly based on on somebody like Rick Dovan bunny who survived the war, powerful, powerful movie. I always have to have to call out and and Chris, you've heard this one on this couple times before, but I have a quirky, trivial personal connection to the movie in that is there's there's a couple of different scenes. When we see Curtis, Jenny in the movie that crashes and in one of them, you've got both fences, kind of competing barnstorm and. He flies into town and WALDO like sabotages airplanes. So when he takes off, it has Jenny the big wire wheels just roll away. Now he's flying around on Jenny with no wheels, and basically they've sort of really did this. They put tiny little caster things on there so that that they could really land then that airplane is seen crashing into a swamp. And this is, of course you know, twenty years or more before CGI. So they do. They really do crash airplane, but they have a stunt double airplane. They use these to have tiger moth that's been mocked up to look like Jenny. And so for that lasts crashing into a swamp, it's an actual crash, but it's tiger moth that's flown in there. Then later in the film to do the same thing with another Jenny crash into this. Carnival midway tiger for that. But the one that crashed into the swamp see crash onscreen in about nineteen Seventy-three. Then that airplane was, you know, was pulled out disassembled and put into storage with tall man savy, -ation, Frank, Thomas, Paul manse biggest names navy. In movies, and it stayed in storage change hands few times, but it stayed in pieces until two thousand six when it was restored and flew again in about six months after that, that first flight gave my wife and my dad each ride. In that airplane there, I first rides, the tiger moth, and you'd never know it. It doesn't look like the movie airplane anymore. It was a Canadian tiger moth, and it's improper RCAF colors and configuration and stuff, but always wins a little bit and that scene though, but, but also it's a happy ending that you know that airplane sat dormant for more than thirty years, but then now is back flying regularly. Basically imagine an era where it was well, you know, we don't really wanna make an actual Jenny crash, tiger moth. There's enough of. Exactly. Yeah. And of course, now it would just be CG. You know, certainly in the as another interesting thing about about all the because by that point when you needed crash sequences in movies, generally we would have been doing models or you know, stock footage. We talked a lot about that last time in the thirties and forties when you needed somebody to fly through a bar or you know, do a crash, you've just got you. Got one of the barnstorm repeats maybe doing that regularly as part of their act anyway, and and did it so so Eun by the early seventies and WALDO pepper was that method of filmmaking was almost throwback to the to the air in which the movie was set was I gonna watch was at six thirty three squadron or mosquito squadron. Actually crash mosquitoes. They actually burn a mosquito, the end of the movie, oh, right on heard of the, you'd never do that. But and that's an interesting pair of movies yet six, three, three squadron, Clifford Sohn in former young eagles chairman and tons and tons of great mosquito stuff. Great. Mosquito fi. And everything else. And then mosquito squadron came a little bit later reused a whole bunch of mosquito footage and it's it's an inferior movie, but you do see some stuff you didn't see in the first one. Yeah. Yeah. Like like the. Yeah, lighting, national airplane on fire. That was like at the end of Dunkirk I will give anything away, but it was at the end of Dunkirk. Please tell me that's not that you're. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. For the most part, you know, hopefully people are smart enough not to do that like even Tora Tora Tora UC's which we did talk about a little bit last time, but there's, you know that movie was nineteen seventy and there some taxable mockups that were that were pretty well done, like p forties and things that burned. But even by that point, we respond enough to just biller burn giant models. Instead of, you know, really sacrificing a p forty jersey had footage of it's in the movie. One of the p forty mockups x. dental gets away from them. And yes, there's like guys actually running for their lives during the attack p forty gets like it's on fire. Next Dona kind of runs away from the handlers. Now, an actual be seventeen was craft for twelve o'clock high, right? Yeah, that was true on twelve o'clock high the film. And luckily that footage got reused in just about every nation move your film after. But they did have a single pilot when I think it was it was or Manser probably Paul man's point. Yeah, actually went up and land. Thought be. He actually bought a b seventeen gave it to him for like a dollar or something crazy, and then he wasn't allowed to keep it or something like that. There was there's an actual contract online you can go read and then he belly landed the airplane. You know, shears go through a couple of tents and in a later in on our list here, but in in the war lover, and there's another one called thousand plane raid. What they did was they took the f model that's now in the museum of flight out of Boeing field, the the dug trenches, and they rolled it down into the trenches. So looks like it's belly landed, but it's actually just sitting geared in these dugout trenches, and then a spliced in that famous crash scene. So you mentioned the war lover Steve McQueen if I'm remembering, right? Yeah. Anyway, McQueen and a b. Seventeen. You don't get cooler than that. Exactly. And that has the absolute most harassing, b, seventeen flying. All you'll ever see in any film. Paul, Mance doing these. Low passes. You know, he's the, he's the angry disgruntled aircraft captain, and he's, he is buzzing the field down below the rooftops of the billings. You're looking down on the speed, seven, teen just tearing between buildings. It is absolutely stunning movie it self is a is a decent film. It's it's a little bit sort of slightly bitter darker darker films, very much an anti-war anti-war film. It's not a propaganda piece, but wonder percent worth it for those findings alone. I think a lot of the standalone scenes are online to love the way Steve McQueen drives a Jeep in movie, just splashing through mud puddle the mud's coming up over his cruise riding on the hood and stuff, you know, so much cooler than Nick cage Firebirds driving around with the underwear on his on. Talk about in the previous. In the previous. Yeah, but Steve McQueen cooler while we're still holding onto the threat of WALDO pepper, I guess that'd be remiss in with my role here in the organization of not mentioning that. I guess the at the time is the the incipient CAA is is reduced as a quite the villain in that movie. They WALDO sure could've used the help of our legal advisory council. I love the though in the guys there and they're dog-fighting inter kind dogfighting for real and the guys, you know, get them WALDO, and everybody kinda looks like, well, as long as he's up there. Yeah, even even the fed comes around, but that's we don't spoil it for anybody who hasn't seen it, but that's when I talk about that being seventies film the the arc that Susan serandon character goes on. Yeah, that's and the and just the overall ending. The ending is very nebulous, and that is that was very, very typical fills the seventies. It's like. You just get to point and we stop the movie and the director sort of thumbs his nose at the, I'd say you figure out what happened, you know, make your own interpretation all the characters. You know, like that can happen. I just watched an old movie called, was it like dirty, Mary and crazy. Larry? I'm an old mo- part nut. You know what I'm like, cool charger. Everybody dies at the end. Like suddenly what? What I was watching, like they got away with the Bank robbery. Oh, and by train. It was like I'm done mood as movie, just a train. So Connor, do you have. Do you have a singular favorite film? I can't say that I I have like an absolute favorite. You see these notes that I made for myself near this to come up with a single pages. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot. I mean, personally, I mean that's how that's like part of what got me into to Asian history more or less watching like older movies, even that not not an older movie, but flight of the intruders always was a favourite actually discovered the book. I all right. Yeah. Like, oh, it's a movie too. And I think like you always hear everybody that is fan of the book that they made movie like, oh yeah, the book is better which is true in this case, but I think you certainly don't have to read the book and it's a great standalone movie if you forget about the book as well. What's interesting is talked to some as six and sugar guys. Vietnam who really, you know, it's kind of funny when you talk to Tom cat guys about Tom, you know, top gun, you know they're all like as cool movie. But man, it's, you know, when you talk about flight of the intruder like, yeah, that was that was a pretty accurate depiction of of what you know. A six mentality was like what the community was like. They all felt that it was. It was a more realistic film. I don't know, willing to force character would be certainly, certainly, there's, I think in the book is just is longer in there's more in there and just really vivid for anyone that doesn't know. Steve was in six pilot Vietnam. So there's a lot of a lot of rule firsthand Brinson. I'm fairly sure he's still inactive. EA member. I know he's been Oshkosh years ago. We were talking about this right before the show started. He bought a steersman called the cannibal Queen, throw a great nonfiction book about flying that and just wanting to touchdown in each of the lower forty eight states and just a great way to see, you know, no better way to see this country than than than the open biplane. One of my favorite scenes that movie to not not to give off any spoilers for anyone that has seen it, but there's part where to sky raiders come in to provide sport, and it's probably some of the better skyrocket or footage out there. And I believe both of those are still flying to this day and pretty sure Stephen it and was flying one of them. Yes, actually just was interviewing him for another project of a few days ago, and we talked a lot about his movie flying, and I remember this guy seeing of that and then his Skyros flying it. We were soldiers, I love to, you know, when that this, the Sadie Spag comes in and just starts blowing things up, say, say, meters guy, raiders do saving the good guys and one more thing. Goodbye. The so one of the, the two Skyros that are in the scene for long. It was owned by guy named Jay Cullum, and I believe he's, he was the other pilot in the filming of it and his longtime. He had a palm tree painted on the under the canopy of his sky raider because he hit them home. Healing of quickly before we get any further afield. I do have to say a lot of Clinton Lee Baker who was one who wrote an said that flight of the intruder was one of his favorites as well, and we appreciate it him him chiming in with that. And that's, that's one of those. Oh my gosh. How did we miss that? One was really missed it because apparently according our producer podcast, can't be eighty hours long. He's over there shaking his head flooded shooter is worth the watch just for Willem Dafoe definitely Culver. Joe Cole is just he's just a fantastic character in that movie than a nice thing about the intruder was. I was a movie that was made during the the correct era to capture the actual that they had in there because you know, they were flying really sixes, rela- sevens. They still had that stuff in the inventory. Well, they actually painted on a cruise. They went on a cruise, had the sixes, and they actually repainted the sixes into the squadron of. I think Steven Kunes like it wasn't that current squadron, but repainted the sixes into the Vietnam schemes for the mood or some pictures out there of, let's say, the us four, six as the whole fleet is in the regular grey or whatever. And then there's these four that are painted and like the Vietnam retro, and that wasn't. And that wasn't filling and the real devil. Five, oh five, the airplane. The star airplane is at the gangqi air museum if Seleny Michigan being restored. So cool. You know the a great point Tom because that was. You know, we all love the the f. eighteen hornet, but I have to say that there was something about that golden age of post, maybe Vietnam and post Vietnam, even even going back a bit earlier when every airplane on aircraft carrier was different, you know, and you've got three Vikings that look almost like many airliners. You've got the Hawkeyes you've got, you know, a sevens and early vigilantes and and fours at different times. All this different stuff for different roles in the eighteen is so capable that now pretty much everything on the care here is either eighteen or helicopter. So it's cool watching movies, flight of the intruder. Another absolute favorite of mine from the roughly the same era a little bit a little bit older is the final countdown. Believe didn't didn't come up last time possibly. Museum we showed at the museum, you know, and it's one of those great simplistic premises, you know what, if a modern day aircraft carrier modern in nineteen eighty or so somehow went back in time and showed up a couple of days before Pearl Harbor and what you know, what, what could they do? What should they do? They change history and things like this, and there's that scene. I think that was a movie that for years and years and years, you couldn't really get a hold of it. It was not acceptable for a long time. So easy to remain assize. Like I remember that movie being nothing, but two hours of dogfights between tomcats zeros and you know, in reality, there's there's that one scene and it's it's quite a bit shorter, but it still just absolutely fun. Fun movie. And in fact, we even did that little bit of recreation of it. Here was that two years ago. That you all know you involved in that one? Yes, exactly. And, and so we had done a whole commemoration of Pearl Harbor, and then we had one of zero's linger. And then we started playing some of the music from final countdown and then some of the dialogue. And then we had an f. eighteen chase away the zero. And that was so fun. Seeing that with Dennis Dunbar who's been a guest on the show a few times both of us love that movie. And yet the difference is I would have that idea would be cool if the navy would like fly in fifteen or eighteen how we ask them to and then dunbar's the one who could make the call and get them excited about it. So yeah, we'll do that really. So the navy will just that's cool. That's very cool. Yeah, we're talking about eighteen gotta talk about behind enemy lines too. Good. Eighteen flying in that and some what's the guy's lied guy's name. Owen Wilson. We'll loosen Wilson. I knew. Orson from ahrq. Yeah. It's a really cool. You know, obviously it's about a shootdown you know, but he's the carrier stuff is pretty cool. The way they do it, it's pretty well themed were pretty well shot, but obviously actually had an aircraft carrier real hornet. But yeah, checking out, I always look for like hidden little bit airplane footage and weird movies, Chris, you were talking about movies that have a little bit of flying in them. And we were also talking about movies where they're actually using real airplanes CG. One scene that I always thought was was really interesting. The way it was done was if you've seen the movie thirteen days about the Kennedy administration, this crisis fate stuff, or if eights and I always looked at wait a minute. Those are real or place where the heck that they get a squadron of our fates Vive LA France. No actually was the Philippine air force for French and already in the Philippines had to, but they still had them on the ramp and what they did was they painted the aircraft and the markings. And then if you notice anytime aircraft is moving, you do not see. The wheels. And then the only but it was really great way of minimizing CG because they only use CG once they once they go full once they go for takeoff, and then even then it's excuse me. The flying scenes are fairly minimal. So it preserves the allusion really well. Yeah, that's a very Well. I, I wondered that too. My hunting f eight crusaders. I you think whether taxable Bacchus like you said, you really, really stands out. You don't see the gear. You don't see, you know these things, the taxable mockup ideas been around for a long time. We've mentioned Tora Tora, battle Britain did at all those kinds of things. Tigers flying Tigers weird looking p forty's in there and right with almost look like people. But yeah, but you can put an actor in it and drive it around driving around on the ground. So so Tom, I you say you're talking about movies that are aviation related aviation it or something. I thought you were going to go much weirder and further afield than something that's still history based. So I will see you that and I will raise you film how late eighty s. Called home fries. It was written by Vince Gilligan who we know from the x. files and much more probably much bigger. Breaking bad started drew Barrymore and Luke Wilson, Owens brother, and it's a very odd quirky, little quirky, little movie. But toward the end, it's got some of the coolest Huey Cobra five flying. I think you'll ever see at any movie and basically one character. It's it's kind of a showdown between a car whose somebody's trying to get away and a Cobra that is just down and in this cars face trying to stop it. So a quirky movie, I think it's fun. Most people don't like it, but if nothing else, zip ahead to the Kover scene and and it's very cool last last one in the gotta brand planet. We won't talk about hardcore movies but can't buy me love. They go to the bone yard yet. Patrick Dempsey takes her on a date Davis Monthan. Yeah, and just love his line. He showed her in Essex hell cat the bone yard. And he's like our grandparents knew how to build stuff that would last. Oh, man, that's cool. You know, I absolutely adore that movie. It's a good flick. I was one of my and I'm of the age to where I would have been his character same age, and you know, kind of running the numbers thinking, maybe maybe his idea is a good one. Yeah, but then then luckily happening like that to me mown grass exactly. All right then. So back to maybe more specific aviation movies since I wrote it off or brought it off track, I guess I'll bring it back on track with Tuskegee airmen versus read too. So HBO HBO living, which I thought was really well done. The us real airplanes. I mean, it was very for the budget that they must have had. They put together really cool movie. They really base looked convincing. They really did their homework. You have an actual Benjamin Davis character in the movie. It's based on real events. You know, cool scene where the t six lands on the road actually happened. Yeah, you don't see. I don't remember you seeing maybe more than two airplanes at once airplanes at once. So it's not like they had a fleet of Mustangs or t six as you said. But for the budget they had it is much more credible and and frankly, you know, sorry, George Lucas, I love you but much more respectful and you tell an honest story instead of I, I'm not sure how you tell the story of the Tuskegee airmen without. Benjamin, o Davis character in the movie. I mean thing about ski airman. The HBO was you could go home. Young kids could watch that movie, go home, Google. Some of the people you see in the movie, the characters, and they were real people and they would come up red tails cools. It was. It was fun to go to the big theater to watch a movie aviation movie on the big screen. I just thought it felt like we miss an opportunity to honor the real guys. You know who who are still with us or some of them still with us, Charles McGee. And we, you know, it came off Moore's of comic book, which I think was his to actual goal, but I don't know. What do you guys think you guys icon ear Mustang guy? Yeah, yeah, you're you're spot on with Lucas was here was here at Oshkosh that year. That's the year he, he was here and he showed some. He showed us preview footage pre release stuff before the movie aired it was at the gathering and I was I was emceeing that. Right? And that was when you know, might Star Wars dreams all came through, and I got a picture listeners and Ford and chatted with both of them. But he showed this preview footage and it was an awkward moment because you've got these Mustangs you know, doing in on roles straight up thousands of feet at five hundred miles an hour. All everybody's skating and all the control surface moves sort of exaggerated. And and you know, there was there was ply the plaza, but then you know, look actually said to the crowd at the time said, well, that's that's kind of what we wished the airplanes could have done. Instead of, you know, we know it's really not very realistic. Well, okay, that's an artistic choice, but but I, I hate it when we look. And I think we talked about this time with stuff like Pearl Harbor, things like that. When you take something such a compelling story, like ski airman and then you mentioned the people sitting the writer's room saying, yeah, but how do we make it interesting and executive? It's already interesting, exciting. That's my main cr-. Criticism of of Pearl Harbor, even though we treated that one in-depth and very kindly on the first. Yeah, we talked about adding stuff to make it for drama. That's what a politics teen, I think. Got so right. We talked about Apollo thirteen right? Is the there was a minimal amount of artistic license taken with that movie. The only time they really did it was just in the ease of telling you the story inside of the two hour, long movie that it is, but they didn't create stuff on the grand scale. I mean, yeah, you didn't have a NASA subcontractor taking bribes from shadowy Soviet. The whole thing or nobody was nobody was smuggling drugs, the lunar module or anything. Yeah, that's eighteen. That's. Have you seen? No. No, it's that movie Frank. Borman kill me. Yeah, that's true. And he would be right to do so. Fun. I concept Apollo eighteen is you know what? If there really was a mission, but things went so horribly wrong that they never told us about it and the things that go wrong or the and stuff. But you cannot talk about fake Apollo style space, movies without mentioning kaffa corn one. Oh. Oh. Cap corn. One was about about having to fake the Mars landing, and then you've got, I think it was Elliott Gould. You've got OJ Simpson. So that's already just dates itself in such a weird weird way. And the whole idea is these are the real astronauts were really going to Mars. Then we find out that we don't have the budget, but we have to do this to save face. They set up to fake the landing. Then the astronauts find out that the script for their fake landing involves them dying aerobically on the surface of Mars. So then they all take off tons of cool flying at though there's huge, five hundred chasing people through the desert and stuff. Wow. And spoiler alert I think, oh, Jay Simpson is the only one survives, but it's been long enough since watched it, but it is a ridiculous seventies romp but tons of fun. Of course that had a hand in launching the ridiculous Moodley conspiracy theories. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, my favorite. This is tired. Joke. You guys have heard a million times my favorite response to the the people talk about faking the moon landing. Is that. Yes, it was faked, but Stanley Kubrick was such a perfectionist. He insisted on shooting the whole thing on location. Maybe we should bring up current movie and production topgun to what do you think top gun to? Yes, maverick I think is the the working title, Tom Cruise Val Kilmer coming back, Jennifer Connelly we mentioned last time in the Rocketeer she's she's, she is apparently I think she's a single mom and who runs the runs, the the bar, whatever the, I don't know if that makes sure sort of the equivalent of Miramar Pancho Barnes or a what she turns into. And then apparently one character is goose's son, and I immediately suggested that that has to be played by Ryan Gosling Gosling, but a baby goose and nobody thinks that's funny. People would go watch it. Yeah, I think my I've heard various rumors about like what type of aircraft they're gonna show and they're like really early one was that it was going to be about kind of like the need for a human pilot airplane versus like the prevalence of drones going on. I think my favorite though when they released that one is official post to write the helmet, the eighteen the back eighteen part of Tomcat group on Facebook and somebody took it immediately erase the eighteen fourteen back. Yes. I remember Megan sent that to me when when some of these issues like like here, they fixed the movie. They're actually filming right now on an aircraft carrier. Really? Yeah. They posted this morning now. Otherwise it could be that maverick defects to Iran because he's the best Tomcat pilot in the world, and they're so flying over their true. We gotta get those back men. How do we get out of? We get our Tom cats back from our end. That's my dream is to get one from Iran, I'm I'm aware go, you just blew your plausible deniability out of the water. When one goes missing. Museum, hastily repainted. Simple to singlehandedly fixed relationship between the US and Iran, and then we can Tom cats we want, let's do Middle East peace. I because that'll be easier. Lay the groundwork then solve the Iran problem. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Perfect. Yeah, we're solving problems on the right thinking. This was aviation podcast. We're tackling really. We're here to change the world a far less well known movie. That's that's in production coming out in just a couple of months. Now, just see the trailer for that. Everybody out there should should check out for varying reasons is a Chinese film called airstrike. Last time we talked about sky fighters, the Chinese top gun in which maverick is the bad guy because he, you know, he thinks for himself, but airstrike is more of an Stoorikhel drama from all I can tell saints Chinese productions, all trainees casts, except for Bruce Willis, which is sort of an interesting get for a homegrown production like that. It's about the battle around around Chongqing. So the Chinese and Japanese. Fighting, there's tons of aviation in it, but, but for me, the trailers I've seen there isn't a real airplane with a thousand miles. It's very. Hyper detailed, but still very sort of cartoony waves and waves of Betty bombers and lots of Brewster buffaloes diving into euros. Her Oakley when they're being shot down and stuff like that, but I will not only see it. I will own it so report back. Guy bring up always in a guy named Joe. Oh yes. I actually have a panel off of an eight twenty six in my office. That's painted with the fire eaters artwork from always. Awesome movie. It's a neat remake. It's actually in some parts word for word remake right of guy named Joe so guy named Joe nineteen forty-three Spencer Tracy p thirty eight pilot. And and but that same basic storyline, he, he's lost. Her Oakley spoiler alert early in the film and comes back as a spirit to guide the the young rookie through it. And of course, always we take it from World War Two firebombers, which I thought was pretty brilliant. Not try to remake the movies, you know, not exactly the first brilliant thing Steven Spielberg ever did was making that choice, but but to make it firebombing so that you still had real airplanes and real drama danger and things like that. But you didn't have to try to make it a period piece. Speaking of always always considered it to to be kind of somewhat spiritually linked. Forever. Young too. Good movies, cuss Sameera same type of general type of aircraft ride. And yeah, you got Mel Gibson's the Mel Gibson and forever young and find between be twenty-five pilot and then he's frozen, hygenic, frozen, and then comes back. There's some cool sort of air show stuff, and Warburg activity want to spoil the end of it, but it is pretty cool. Air shows takes place in the interesting connection there. Pretty sure. Steve Hinton was one of the the pilots. I mean, that's always a fair guess there's a, I'm pretty sure it sent movie. There's a scene where there's a little boy with some ice cream that like it's just a real quick clip and he's awkwardly steering that Steve junior. Oh, is it really piece of trivia that's watching? I haven't seen that movie in agents. It's, you know, it's it's very much aviation theme, but they're sort of flying at the beginning and flying more toward the end. It's not, you know, it's not cool. Lying throughout, but it still, it's fun. It's charming. It's worth. It's worth a watch. And like you said, you know, very similar similar era. Another one from around the same time that always pops into my mind is called for the moment. This is a Canadian production and it was, but it was a period piece and it's it's Russell Crowe and and cast of, I think, otherwise, fairly unknown actors, but Russell coz I big movie big h movie at all, takes place at British Commonwealth air training plan base in. I think it's Manitoba's were on the planes during a war too. So there is it opens with, here's my bias opens with some of the most beautiful tiger moth footage oversee on film moth, devoting over the clouds, and you've got Cessna cranes which also near and dear to me personally, ever Anson's fleets and stuff around and it's it's a simple sweet, not super high. Budge. Film, but lots of good airplane stuff tonight he just riff on the Canadian theme for just a second, you sure can't. I'm sorry, Tom, go ahead. Not a, not a, not a drama, but a documentary that is really, really good. It's a little hard to find here in the US, but it was a TV miniseries called Jetstream and it's about a class of Canadian perspective, f eighteen pilots that are going through flight training at cold lake Alberto, and it is kind of it's done in a, you know, real time, quote, unquote reality style. But if there's any manufactured Rahman, they did a really good job hiding. It is just it's just seems really good, really honest really in-depth. Actually, you get a lot of technical details in there of the actual, the flights that they're doing the stuff that they're actually learning. They're some mock dog-fighting in it from the actual training that is really, really good. I did not realize that they still get that close together. You know, when they're when they're doing a mock gun drills and stuff like that. So it's really worth checking out if you can get your hands on type. Is that the one that you and I checked out, we saw a few clips of it. Yeah, they're, here's one. Almost ended a friendship. On this list and that is a pockets. Now we watched it in our house. I didn't realize that the movie took place in real time nineteen sixty eight from nineteen sixty eight nineteen seventy four is about a six year committee in the middle of like it starts off so good. Like just us cool hardware in Vietnam movie. And then it just goes off into this weird tangent of, I you know. So in the movies defense, it is a modern interpretation of Joseph. Conrad's heart of darkness. It was just convert, right? Yeah. Yeah. I remember my English. Okay. I wanna say William Conrad, but he was he was the other guy and and Chris, I think you're coming at the time was what? That's it. He just walked away. Yes, Chris, that's the point I felt the movie insisted upon itself into me. I wanted to watch convoy that movie is is ride of the Valkyries and swarms of UH ones, and it's just it's cool. And you know it is one of those movies though that you that you're sort of feels you're not allowed to really criticize it classic, and it's it's, I appreciate it for what it is and what went into the making of it. But it's, it's not. It's not like the feel good hit of the summer. It's not one of those to me. It's not an overtly rewatch movie until you haven't seen it in. It's not really a warmly. It's thinking. I hadn't seen very variety. Yeah. The cycle would, and I'm like, oh yeah, I was. I was all four flying Hueys PBR boats. And I'm like, man, this is awesome. The next another cutting oxen, half, and I'm like, what is this. Yeah, you guys are glued to the TV. Like I said that I wanted to watch convoy. We went a little bit of a different route, but. Yeah. Wrong with the movie. There's a feed saw. That's true. Song was was a hit to radio time is still confused kid in the seventies. Conor, what else is on your. Otherwise, we're going to be talking. Crazy Mary every which way but loose. Oh, run hitting all my favorite Greece movies. So why would be it just wouldn't be right if I didn't bring up the gator because I come from a background. I studied radio TV film in college. I did a lengthy paper on the cinematography behind the aviator clear. We're talking about the Leo DiCaprio biopic not the Christopher refilmed by the same name. Right. Which is a quiet favorite of mine. Right. And so I, I mean, hits on a lot of stuff we've talked about, I guess one talking about CG versus real airplanes you think of the airplanes of Howard Hughes. Wow, that's that's an undertaking to not use e g think of spruce goose and actually company called aero telemetry built very large scale RC models that they did the filming of the h. one the XFO eleven and the spruce goose or the the Hercules should say, which really. Cool. And there there's there's footage out there of the actual models and selves, and then they show the the film footage and it's it's awesome. It's a great kind of inbetween. CGI and relearn draft was the replica of the the racer still around. Then I was thinking about that and I don't think so. I think the plan to use it, but it unfortunately crash. Oh, well before. And I remember when when I was involved in that Rocketeer podcast, I was thinking the same thing because there's a Hughes h. one or the, you know, but that's a full-scale mockup because that was quite a few years before the flying was built, which is was such a tragic, tragic loss of, you know, airplane, one that airplane was lost. You mentioned the large scale model stuff in there, and it wasn't all necessarily are see models, but a couple of films that are one that's guilty pleasure and one that sort of was more guilty. But in that mid nineties timeframe, Conair and remaking of flight of the Phoenix. So Conair you got a lot of good see when Twenty-three stuff, and then the flight of the Phoenix remake, you've got the c one nineteen converted the original eighty two from the mid sixties version of film. But what I didn't realize there was a model worker that reach out to me who actually did work on the Rocketeer, but he and his company built the giant scale models for those two films Conair and flight of the Phoenix and they were one fifth scale. Wow. So to give people some perspective, you picture a good is how I picture good. Classic GI, Joe twelve inches tall. That's one six scale. So imagine see. Twenty-three big enough for GI Joe's and then make it, you know, make it that much bigger need that. That's act or the nineteen. Of course, the original fight of the Phoenix associated to pack it crashes in the desert, and they build a hybrid airplane out of it and that film to me. Once I found this out, I haven't really been able to watch it all the way through even though it's a great movie. But Paul manse one of the two original flew in everything movie guys was killed. During the making that film, they built a, they built a hybrid airplane out of Bettine parts largely and he died in a crash and then they, they, they used a subsidy airplane, which is now under restauration at chino for for the flying footage to make to make it. So the movie didn't have a tragic ending. As even though the making movie did the love. You don't know the CD to that used in the shots of the movie where the planes together. That's the one that's now in the air force museum. We saw that and the restoration on. Beautiful cleanup of it. It's gorgeous. Very cool. So can I bring it back to kind of documentary cereals for just a second here? Yeah, hell noticing your notes. You have Spitfire Ason here? Yes, that's that's a favorite of mine. That's for those of you who don't know that is they took basically a group of people from different backgrounds. So they had like civilian pilots current military pilots and a couple of guys off the street. But what they're trying to do was come up with the profile of your typical Spitfire pilot at the time of the battle of Britain and where they came from, and then they took them through approximately the same amount of training. Right? Yeah, and tiger moth Harvard then into the two seat to Spitfire, and I was trying to remember to was there. Was there somebody in there who was already pilot fighter pilot? I think they did a RAF. He may have done that. I'm also conflicting a little bit because you and McGregor. His brother is an active duty aria fighter pilot, and the two of them have done some documentaries together of. Of flying exploring old some of the vintage Warbirds as well too. So I I could be, as I said, complaining those to the ending of it. Also just very emotional. They've got they bring in an actual battle of Britain. Pile the spit, put him in the Spitfire and Ken show some shots of him flying the airplane overlaid with some some quotes of some some interviews with some of the pilots of the time. It's just really call how readily available is I do have copies of it. Spitfire ace, and there was a follow up to that was it was well done. I don't think it was quite as compelling somehow, maybe that's just because I'm madly in love with the Spitfire plus they were tiger Monson the Spitfire as, but there's one called it was bomber crew or bomber command and same premise, but it took a group of people and and and then put them in the Lancaster, you know, after going through the other sort of training training regiments things. But again, as as the reality stuff goes, you mentioned the Canadian series, British easy tend to see and forget the stereotype to see a bit less. Manufactured drama and just more look over doing. And how cool is is I feel like like the the British and come, the Anglosphere spin on the reality series is is better done somehow, but that's just me, well, there's one on here I have to bring up because man me and my me and my dad would watch this and especially in reruns baba, black sheep. I gotta bring that up. I mean, I think that so many people that just love the course there. There's a lot of people who aren't really airplane nerds, but love the course air simply because of that TV show remember seeing the show and that was Steve Hinton's. I, I sort of movies lash TV flying. Really? Yeah. So the first thing you did now Connor as we're recording this, what were you doing yesterday. Actually, I was checking out at corsair that believe was used on baba, black sheep, John O'Connor, his new. Let's for you dash. Seven. But it's painted up as an a, you one really cool. Yeah, it's actually easy to pick out his airplane in the show because it's the only later model that's on there. The other ones are four one DS gpd if g Wendy's or whatever. But because his later model the cannons and the wing and the kind of the the little scoop under the cowling. So you could you could pick it out really easily? Yeah, it was on the show. That's awesome. Wasn't in. There wasn't no ours. Ours was actually the first corsair to race at Reno. Yeah, and we say ours, we're talking about the one that's on display here in our aviation museum. Yes, clear talking about the one that Chris and I own. I thought you're talking about the the official corporate airplanes green dot force. There are point was green actually. That's awesome. So also in the documentary front, I see the max movies in there which actually I've seen both the magic of flight which follows blue angels primarily, and then fighter pilot. Both of those at the Milwaukee, public museum max, which is a dome type screen. And so pretty much your entire field of you is taken up by the screen and the especially in magic fly at the flying scenes are spectacular. It's probably the closest you can get to like actually being there. Holds up to this day. I mean, obviously the experience of watching it at home on DVD or Blu Ray is not is not nearly as impactful, especially with with the dome. I, I saw it twice in I max once in one of the dome theaters once more standard, just on the giant screen and you do absolutely feel like you're there and I've got to say Hello and thanks to apologies if I'm pronouncing last name wrong to Burt. I'm going to guess that it's Don. Yeah, or Donya is he was wanted commented and and called out some of his favorite. I max movies as well. That's good. Good stuff. We can't. We can't talk about that batteries. How can we go nother podcast without mentioning one six, right. Absolutely. Yeah, one, six right Bryant. Her Willer a love letter to and to the van Nuys airport. And and then I follow on very different theme. But I think also spectacularly interesting documentary living in the age of airplanes both by Brent Willer both. I be surprised if there's anybody listening that hasn't at least seen once right if you times. But if you haven't, boy, just go just go check it out, put it in the Blu Ray at the the newly remastered version as it is just absolutely luscious that shot Ecclesia, knighted DC, three landing. I watch that all day that part of it where they summed up your solo. I was really many really nailed that when when there's a sequence of the, they talk about what it's like when you first find out, you're gonna go solo by yourself and that that was pretty cool. I actually bought a copy that to give them. My parents are the ones that put me through school and I was like, here's why I'm such an airplane nerd because they're not, and and they kinda got kinda at least gives them a peak it why we enjoy this so much. It really captures it. I, I mean, I just go to the opening sequence which you know if you haven't seen the movie, you can find on YouTube, but think Brian Twitter's account. But you know, just the the the, it's kind of a sequence of both historical stock footage and current day operations. Van Nuys airport really is kind of illustrations of how we are doing today. In many ways. The same things that you know the pioneers of aviation did and it was just it's a really nice link between those two eras. I think they didn't really good job capturing and I agree, absolutely agree completely. So wholehearted recommendation, I think from all of us very, very quickly before we bounce onto the next film. I've got a circle back to always in the guy named Joe. I had made a note that another listener, Chris sausa- Sasa. He had also written us and said, you know, hey, guys, how could you possibly miss these two and absolutely right. Always has been a favorite of mine since the day to day it came out. But Chris, you're sort of gleefully making making some hand signals a moment ago about one that I know is a favorite of both of ours. Oh, yeah. Mentioned air America really, really neat movie about the CIA operation in Cambodia, Laos, flying of righty, different airplanes in sort of the wild guys that did it little did we know that we would have a friend in museum volunteer who was one of the inspirations for the film and actually worked on the film a bit, and then how you got to introduce the producer writer of the film, right? Yeah, we had both the the writer who was also a producer and and then your friend and into weird Neil. Like to his name, cared coloring books on the airplanes with him and and and that whole scene crashing three times in one day that really happened to to our friend, weird Neil. My favorite story is Neil get on an airplane before everybody else and sit in the back and then the plane would load with passengers. And then he was hurt to gripe about how this airline never leaves on time and he go, forget it. I'll do it myself and he'd get up walk. Fire up the airplane and just take off and what everybody freak out in the back. That's one of those movies that there's a couple of things that stand out about that film for me. I mean, it's it's, you know, it's a, it's a fun sort of action, comedy drama, sort of thing from what right, about nineteen ninety. If I remember right, and so it's, you know, it takes us series topic and puts a lighter spin on it, but it's, it's also one of those that that crisis, you've gotten entrenched with some of the American folks, and certainly my limited exposure with Neil and few other people. It is a little bit more realistic than than people give it credit for. But it's also one of the last. About a year before the Rocketeer. It's one of the last all the airplanes litter real movies. Just by the time you get into the early in the into the mid nineties. We see more and more CG or we see in a more enhanced model work and things like that. Not that that can't be beautifully done. Like you're talking about the aviator. You know, you had no choice, but to Bill giant scale models, and it was that's an art form in and of itself. But you know, I could watch the favorite scenes and air America's that border that lands on that ridiculous dirt hillside strip. Of course. Now in the days of YouTube, you can search, I know dangerous airports and short runways crazy, and, and you see tons of that kind of stuff. But when that movie came out, like when I bought my VHS coffee right for the Blu Ray years later, that was one of the only ways you could on demand just watch cool. Flying's was to put one of these movies in my favorite part of learning about that movie was Neil as well. You know, there was a lot of unrealistic stuff that happens at movie and I'm like, really, you know, thinking of all the craziness that is in this film and instead of thinking of like the craziest thought he was like, oh, I didn't really freak people out with coloring in coloring books, and I didn't really actually become like a Buddhist monk and all this stuff. Instead, he was like, well, you know, if you flew helicopters, you didn't fly fixed-wing and transfer back. And fourth, and I'm like, wait, that's out of all that stuff. That's the stuff you're picking out speaking of helicopters that whole opening are not the opening sequence, the opening sequences to see one Twenty-three to the drug just so cool. But then shortly that when we first meet Robert Downey junior character and he's in a bell, forty, seven j very, I don't think I've outside of a museum. I don't think I've seen one syncing. It's a start with a bell forty-seven. Typical mash bubble helicopters, sort of build some more structure around make it a four seater. But he's flying that as a for a as a news traffic reporter and he's just hovering right down there in the traffic jam starting to kinda lose it. So cool to see when we got a bunch of the America guys together. One of them brought up the, you know, the scene where they hoist, Robert Downey junior up and fly him to work suspended underneath a uey with a free ride playing right right rate soundtrack. And you know, and I was like, oh yeah, that's gonna be one of these things that they're gonna talk about how that was unrealistic and then. Instead during? Oh, yeah. That was remember we did that that was Billy or whatever. What we really guy was sleeping. He would sleep through anything. So we tied him up and flew under a, we sling loaded him to work on. Because. I know we're running along here, but I gotta ask you hell I see it in your notes. Was there really a last episode. What a way to to wrap this up is there was a two parter episode Lassie and it was a whole other sets sets TV stuff. We talk about twilight zone, outer limits, so could save a bunch of stuff for volume three. But yet to part Lassie episode called pieces, our profession, it was shot at largely on location, believe as Vandenberg Air Force base and you've got lots of it's mostly about Lassie like making friends with a couple of other animals. Like there's a, there's a bird like a goose of some kind that's laid its eggs, like right next to where this missile launch is going to happen. And so so Lassie the the, the brilliant collie that she was basically trying to stop the missile launch to save. These saves little baby birds. It's when you think you've got sack nuclear bombers and then and then a bunch of little chicks and a dog trying to save them. It's just like this absolute culture clash. You know, showed out as nuke the commies wait, there's baby birds. I thought it was going to like by dawn's early light, which is another. All right, you're talking about? Yeah, that's true child in Spokane this, okay. But, yeah, the Lassie the last episode that was one, my brother, the world's because beef to fan would always look forward to and again, in the days before any kind of on demand or VHS or anything long before that you just you watch TV guide. Andy waited for the cool episode to come on for Lassie. It was that because tons of fifty two flying. So in the later part of the episode, there's there's a little dog is a little bit sick who somehow gets aboard the looking glass airplane that's gonna be scrambled, and you know, handling radio communications. So Lassie s let everybody know about that too. So the whole episode is about, you know, Lassie rescuing animals rescuing animals that are too close to something sack is doing, but it is. It is just a feast of cool b fifty two stuff. So I was kinda hoping for some trauma and they're like. That's a valid launch code. You know? Yes or TIMMY has the codes, but he's down the well. So how do we do? We launch a strike, I don't know. But anyway, as has been mentioned a couple times we have gone. We have gone long and happened the first time it happened this time and once again, I'm looking at these notes and saying, how did we not mention the these other forty fifty things? So we're going to just have to do this more more frequently rather than sort of several months apart. So big, thanks to those of you who had commented with some suggestions, and we hit a few of you and apologies if I what your names. Thanks always to everybody who takes the time to engage with us on the blog posts on social media, sending emails to feedback, eight dot org to let let us know what you think of the show that means the world reviews on itunes and all the other online sites. Those reviews are absolutely. The reason we were able, as I've said, many times to take this. Experiment and turn it into a thing. So with that, thanks again to all of you for listening. And we will see you next time when you're clear to land on the green dot.
The Philadelphia Story
"The year is nineteen forty and we're about to have a conversation so intense. It's gonna pop the pennies of a dead irishman the movie philadelphia story. Hey everybody welcome to on school old. I'm paul scheer and this is the podcast where we watch one film from the top one hundred films of all time list and look and see if they they are really good people say do they hold up and how they influenced the films that we watch today <hes> last week. We talked about the maltese falcon. We'll be talking a little bit more about that in in the next few seconds but this week we're talking about a classic romantic comedy the philadelphia story we have very special guest today the writer of of set it up katie silverman so stay tuned for that before we get back into the maltese falcon. I want to remind people that we have amazing merch available at t. Dot com slash stores slash unspoiled and we actually saw two people wearing a shirt that we thought wasn't getting any love on my no one had bought this shirt. It was i love lepers charlton heston from ben hur <hes> just a great like kind of what do you call it style. It's like an art deco but it's like pop art or pop art comic book lichtenstein without the dots and it was the cutest couple they came to our lives alamo draft house wearing the matching shirts but in their own colors because they let you pick your own color that you want your shirt to be on how much i love that about where experts confirmed it's so so good so head on over to the public dot com slash store slash unspoiled and if you want to follow along with as you can always had depatched wag dot com and get at our poster designed by scott see he didn't amazing job follow along. I've been checking off my poster pretty great fun little hobby now. Let's talk about people's reaction. A to the maltese falcon well people were very intelligent in deciphering and scrambling with them all tees and i actually want to point out matthew fountain in the unspoiled podcast group said. Did anybody else notice that the dial the maltese falcon could be a loose anagram for teas a fallen conman who wow like that. I know i'm always sir my anagram brothers and sisters. Do you think that that actually is true or is that just kind of fake news. When i started in my head it seemed to make sense but actually while we're talking about me deciphering things i have to do a mea culpa of my own because i did not realize that there were actually a few simpson's maltese falcon references that people did pick up on that. I completely miss the number. One thing is the simpsons likes to do disagree straight angle. They're like oh. It's a giant man and we're in his crutch like here. This is from the episode homie the clown as you hear fat tony talk picture them shooting this moment of the simpsons exactly like the maltese falcon. I am afraid that time has come for oh you to pay us look. I'm clean out. Just take the clown college. We have already taken. It did sound a lot of money stays so after you finish your performance you might consider robin him. You know amy that's not the only crush shot on the simpsons. Here's another one that was sent to us and again. It's an audio oh medium but we are showing you crotch shots but just imagine this character just picture cacho insist simpson's cacho this podcast and the top one hundred has gone got shots. Maybe in cartoon. I'm sorry i can't divulge information about that. Customer secret illegal account oh crap. I shouldn't have said it was customer. Holy crap. I shouldn't have said it was a secret crap. I certainly wouldn't have said it was illegal. It's too hot today. Great crotch work and funny scene but it wasn't just a simpson's amy there's also ren and stimpy maltese falcon clip and this is true and once sharon horror who is so smart every week with the things that she notices it brings attention she was like hey you guys remember that renan's his catchphrase is utilized catchphrase and i was like oh my god. How could i have not noticed five bucks. I know that venice peter lorre how did i miss that we are breathing in the air of the maltese falcon. We don't even know what we don't question it at all <hes> and finally lars anderson writes. I love this movie. Only thing i didn't really care for is the opening scrawl which is repeated by greenstreet later on anyway. What was it like a studio. Guy was like <hes> the audiences aren't going to sit for an hour not knowing what the falcon is. We got to explain it up front. You know it's interesting. They greenstreet. I think is even at the front and center of the trailer trailer for this film here. Take a listen to this conclusion. I wanted to talk to you. I'm gonna tell you an astounding starry story of the maltese falcon six hundred years. The falkland has added the mystery of fabulous wealth under its grotesque wing. I can tell you a thousand tales the men and women who have hunted this evil bird every story has the same ending mad had these incredible people all consumed by their passion ingred for the maltese falcon so that's the trailers starts so funny and clearly shot that just for the trailer but they really are building up this falcons. You gotta get that fucking. I mean that's why adam savage probably so obsessed with it. As well. People want to soon no more about it. Get that welcome baby and actually while i'm thinking about this for the last time as we say goodbye to the montauk in you know thinking about sending greenstreet connick images that we're seeing in the simpsons and hearing in this trailer and everything about it i mean do you think that in the modern era we're so obsessed with fitness and with all of our male stars being swale swale that were missing out on people just cool green street presence. We don't really make that many green streets from orlando dude no no i disagree. I mean not not to call out the people but look at people like john goodman. I mean that would be john. Goodman asked character. I think look our leads are gonna for action are going. It'd be like that but i think our character actors are great. Characters are often of many different body types and yeah i mean and there's i mean there's so many not to just to call attention to goodman but they're like if you look around in in film. I think that that's the best part about being a character actors. They don't look like the swale leads just stick of swale and i it was my mind cause humphrey bogart himself. He's a skinny dude. He's real scrawny really scrawny skinny dude and i just miss having normal scrawny dudes onscreen apex. Who would have ever thought i'm sick. No one likes an eight-pack he telling myself that every single day now amy we're going to leave the maltese falcon behind unlike most people who become obsessed with it and we're going to move to slightly lighter territory. We're talking about one of the top five romantic comedies of all time it's on this list a little bit lower than the top five <hes> and it's philadelphia story which which is a movie that you are self professed to love. We thought if we're going to remake this movie today who would be a good <unk> trio of stars ford awards so let's take a listen to what you called in last week and told us you thought the best new casting would be for this film so i would cast dev patel as mike the day stacey and joe carey s c k dexter haven. I think i catch story with adam. Sandler steve boo shammy tammi give me helen hunt seven politics and henry rollins that is versus the philadelphia story that everyone needs in a blatant attempt to pander to any <hes> for my sexy love triangle. I'm gonna suggest michael oh sanan like he's stanfield and of course the most beautiful woman alive dana delany of course the most perfect love triangle for the philadelphia story. It'll just stay the johnson. My answer would the ryen goslin ryan reynolds and and the stones. I think that'd be pretty good. Can i just say that a movie poster with with dana delany being kissed by one when sheikh by michael shannon and lakisha stanfield on the other cheek that'll be beautiful well and also a helen hunt kevin golic and henry rollins poster art. That's not i wanted to talk about that. One is aggressive. I don't know what that is. That is just insane. I have to say though ryan gosling ryan reynolds emma stone. I'm kinda there for that movie like. I know it's playing on that. We've already seen but look so as philadelphia story spoiler alert. It's true and also that adam sandler stavish. I'm jennifer aniston that that is not on that flicks right. Now i find confusing steele. Jimmy is not would not be totally right for but how 'bout adam sandler andy sandberg jennifer aniston who would play which part you think it'd be journalist journalist so she would have to marry she always does end up marrying sandler movies. It's so weird. I will get into that in a different podcasts called sandler thoughts <hes> all right well. Let's get into this movie amy philadelphia story. It's our feature presentation. The year is nineteen. Forty world war two continues the u._s. renounces its trade treaty with japan race race riots break down chicago. Harlem los angeles in detroit. Scientists conclude that eating ice cream is the leading cause of polio based solely on the stats that more cases. They're diagnosed in summer prime ice cream eating days m._g._m. Debuts it's popular duo tom and jerry in suit warner brothers releases its gruesome twosome bugs bunny and elmer fudd benjamin o davis senior becomes the first african american general f._d._r. Begins his third but not final term as president and nylon stockings things i hit the market audiences are loving the grapes of wrath the great dictator fantasia in today's film the philadelphia story it comes in number forty four on the the top one hundred list up seven points from its last position amy who's in it. What's it about the philadelphia story. It is a physi- romance about life in the upper class when it ca- mingles with dirty dirty hardscrabble journalists which is why i like it so much it's based on a play by philip barry that he wrote specifically for katherine hepburn who in nineteen thirty eight was deemed box office poison after being a baby. We're going to get into that again in a minute. <hes> he wrote this part for her. As rich upper class woman tracy lord who's been and divorced once is now getting married the next day as happens often apparently in katherine hepburn movie. She is pitted against a few different suitors. Her ex husband cary grant james stewart as long as the newspaper reporter and john howard is up and coming social climber george kitchen. The movie is directed by the <unk> director woman george couture who you might remember from directing many of the scarlet scenes yes the wind will amy. I know this would be holds a special place for you. We talked about this in a relationship to the last. Ask kind of big broad comedy. We did which was bringing up baby and i believe that you were saying that. This movie is far superior film to that film. Oh now that we're seeing far superior. I feel a little bit like hello. Let's go back a little bit but i do prefer this movie to bring a baby. I just think this movie has a wider our cast of characters. I enjoy spending more time with i think this has a really great role for katherine hepburn that has more complexity and it's very much designed to kind of work with the katherine earn hepburn brand and make the audience fall back in love with her. I do think this movie does have a couple quibbles of course but i mean this movie. I really admire. I think maybe just on the outermost level as an example of a very smart actress katharine hepburn understanding herself like being able to look at herself what her problems are connecting to an audience from the outside and and figure out how to work her way in not just by being written in for a great role but by buying the rights to that role by making hollywood casteran in my like designing her own comeback. I admire all the brains behind what happened to make this movie happen and it makes me fall in love with catherine hepburn even more well. This movie is kind of a response to bring you baby because after bringing a baby she was labeled box office poison right and so what a couple of years pass as she goes to broadway and then she kind of is rebirth with this film. Is that about right yeah. That's about right and i kind of want to take a minute just to talk about box office poison you because this is the thing that gets done on a lot from nineteen thirty eight box office poison so and so it was declared box office poison in the nineteen thirty eight in what they're talking about when they talk about that is this one specific article written by a man named harry brandt who was the president of the independent theater owners of america and and that's still kind of a thing that exists today now. It's called nato which sounds very militaristic but it's not it's also like the national association of theatre owners. That's where everyone goes to vegas and they see all the trailers colors cinema got yeah. I used to go actually three years because i used to be the editor of a magazine called box office which actually was the magazine for the national theatre back in the doc days and i was like all about per-screen averages man on my f._m. L. team a ah team amy. You looked at me with a shocked face. That's my fantasy movie league. You must kind of set up the perfect box office us in it is all based on per screen averages. How you really you really like the way i think not in the entire. Whatever how many episodes we've done the show. I've never seen you look so out of a woman of breeding harry brandt wrote. This piece not called box office poison. This piece was called dead. Cats aware incendiary title and he said this is what he said to america wake up. Practically all of the major studios are burdened with stars. Who's public appeal. Bill is negligible and are receiving tremendous salaries necessitated by contractual obligations among those players whose dramatic ability is unquestioned but their box office is new. They can be numbered greta garbo marlene dietrich mae west joan crawford kay francis norma shearer luise rainer john barrymore dolores del rio katherine hepburn edward arnold donald fred astaire so he's listening a bunch of people. Mostly women in this piece is usually interpreted as harry brandt was like people don't like these women make these women go away which is not exactly what he was saying. It's a little bit more nuance than that. What he's saying is the way star system was set up. These studios had spent a ton of money making movies with these actors and therefore had to keep making a lot of movies with these actors in order to keep them profitable and that they're spending too much money on these movies that not that many people wanted to see see he was actually mad more at the producers in the actors but people usually just think he's mad at the actors he was mad at producers. He was like your system is dumb. Don't spend that much on salaries spend more just making original movies and he ends this piece by saying you know we're not answer star system mind you but we don't think it should dominate the production of pictures so he's trying to say shake it up a little bit but this peace usually gets boiled down to everybody hates joan crawford and everybody hates <hes> katherine hepburn which is not entirely fair but i mean do you also find and this is a larger conversation. Maybe not to be impactful here but that women are also the people that are parentally under that like chopping block like like box office poison would be for a woman women but men kind of escape that thing we were talking about this the other day <hes> my wife and i about like katherine heigl like she just sort of like nope. We don't like her anymore and she's kind of shut shut out because she's difficult or she had some harsh opinions. Yes hard to think of the men who get the same treatment. I mean sometimes there's things like we know when we fell in love with matthew mcconaughey for one year and we're like no hate that guy again and also like when we fell in love with jared leto and we're like oh we love him so much. I mean hate him again. It's why get nervous when we do things like i love keanu reeves because as soon as we're all like we all love jonah reeves we will immediately hate count arrives. It will find any reason to i just want to protect our stars and let us just feel above average about not all of them all the time well. I think whenever there's so much love you are going to take a drop. It's just inevitable <hes> but it also feels like men can kind of sometimes re <hes> remount that mountain a little bit quicker than sometimes lemon because they feel like there's another person in waiting so it's makes even more admirable admirable at this point. The katherine hepburn could've maybe been on the outs and never really gotten back in and then she kind of came back in in a major way. It soon probably helps that. There's just more roles written for men so it's easier to find a role that people might wanna see you whereas with women you're suck i mean katherine hepburn made a romantic comedy that didn't do as well as people people wanted to bringing a baby and then to come actually had to come up with the better romantic comedy that people might like her in washington movie. I knew this going into it and there was one little section of it and i feel like it was very deliberate and i don't know if this is directly from the play or if this was the reason why katherine hepburn took it but she takes herself down a peg a little bit so i feel like here's a character talking to her telling her what they don't like about her. Which i think is basically the audience or using. This is a surrogate for the audience and i think by putting her in this position. You're lowering her and it's so take a listen to this. I suppose you still being attractive to any man of spirit of something engaging about it. This god is business something more challenging to the male than the <hes> obvious charms really very vain you now this citadel can shelby taken. I'm the boy to do it. You seem quite contemptuous and they all of a sudden now read. Donna view never view man. You could be the finest woman on this earth contentious something inside of you you either can't help make no attempt to so-called strength your prejudice against weakness. Your blank intolerance is that that's just it because you'll never be a first-class human. Being a i got a woman until you have somebody god for human frailty your own foot cast up a little sometime but your sense of in the divinity wouldn't allow that this god is must and shall remain intact there more than people realize a special class of the american female you the merit maidens next. If you say another word for the moment i've had my say. I just think that moments like this are throughout the film. I want want to play one later too but she is basically a punching bag for every character. I think this is one of my favorite katharine hepburn performances though i mean although bring a baby she she self fucking funny in that movie and this is much more of the traditional role. I think that's why i love bringing baby her role in that but i was blown way by her not only her ability and i know it sounds dumb because she's one of our economy actresses but she really is a fantastic actress who got to do these really meaty roles yeah exactly i mean it's so interesting that she decided that what her comeback had to me. It was not a movie where everybody told her she was great and it was not a movie where she wanders honors around being incredibly lovable. It was a movie written so that people could tell her what the american audience didn't like about her that line where she says you know you've seen quite contemptuous of me. All of a sudden that i mean that feels so true she was a woman who had been having great success being nominated for oscars. Suddenly the audience turns on her. There's something in who was you know and and it's kind of hard for me to understand what it was like. In the thirty s how revolutionary it was that she likes to wear pants in public because i'm like of course panther great. Why don't you pants but this woman who literally wore pants at a time when louis b. mayer it was like stop put aaron pants. Don't put our pants your this woman who was like oh. I don't need to have kids. I don't need to go through this publicity cycle of being a mom and inviting you into my home. I'm gonna live my life my own way. I'm going to be really independent behind the scenes which of course contributed to tons of gossip about what her love life really was. She was frightening and i think it's it is hard for me to really put myself in the shoes and so she had to make a movie. That's like yes. Maybe i do act like i'm better than you. Maybe did you talk like i'm better than you. I'm sorry i would love to see this film with an audience because i really liked this film but it doesn't feel to me like a hilarious comedy and maybe it was just the way that i watched it. I think a lot of it is like and i'm dealing with this a lot of the times when i watch she's from like what are the mores of the forties or the late thirties and what is like 'cause sometimes. I think what seems so crazy easy or you know is very benign now. So you know it's interesting. You can see but i saw it more as a dramatic piece. There are some really funny capri <hes> moments in it but like there's some great acting in this movie like i i think that like i know that jimmy stewart never felt that he was deserving of winning an oscar oscar for this and he felt like it was just given to him because he was retroactive from mr smith and it was also the year he was against henry fonda and grapes of wrath but he he also he's giving. I think one of my favorite performances cary grant is dimming so down to earth and small. This movie feels very of the now in the way. The performances images are just like they're. They're really perfectly nuanced. I can hear that you know. I didn't really have that much. I allowed the last time i saw at either which is interesting because it plays idea of hepburn. Maybe not knowing what funny was or people never wondering never being sure that she did know funny was right because when she would perform form the play on broadway. She cried a lot because her. It actually isn't emotional part. You know here's a woman who thinks she's living her life the right way who thinks she's marrying to the to the correct person listen. You know it's gonna stable upstanding good man who thinks she's really lived her life. Exemplary really tried to and everybody does she sucks for like ninety minutes. You're that's brutal title and in the end of the play yeah she did cry a lot at the emotional scenes because she found it really emotional because for that character it is but everybody doesn't want to make it emotional. Everybody wants to laugh at her so kuker occur had to tell her scaleback no crying known avail. Keep it together because if you cry than the movie's gonna turn on you again so i guess the idea being like they didn't want her to be overly overly vulnerable. They didn't want her to be overly sympathetic. They didn't want it to be too much of a needy character. Essentially exactly it's like they had to figure out how to make apart that was exactly katherine hepburn and phil berry. He said that one of the things he did when he was writing. Just the stage play is that he studied her completely like it wasn't even just see thought about her the abstract he was like i watched glacier moved her head. I watched the shooter is incorporated all of her characteristics into this part of of of tracy lord. It was tailor made for her even though oh. He said that he based the character on this infamous socialite helen hope montgomery scott right. Did you know that this is the this woman was so wealthy wealthy. They were actually going to shoot the movie on her family's estate but when they saw the scope of the property the producers decided it was too large to be realistic for anyone anyone to live like this that literally i mean so i think the idea being like they're probably pulling on that kind of wealth and then probably pulling on offer physical attributes to kind of personify the shutter of what if they try to do this with like paris hilton were just modeling it on packers hepburn was so infatuated with this play and she's also nervous if she knew what this play would mean to her career she screwed it up and the story is is like the night that it was about to premiere for the first time she was backstage and she kept his muttering to herself imagine that you're an indianapolis imagine that you're indianapolis because she was so nervous and she's trying to take away some of that because you know she's an actress doesn't get many of these parts parts in lifetime and they don't need many was her other kind of secondary but this was her part in you know if you remember near talking about bringing a baby she'd been dating howard hughes often on. She left howard hughes to go to new york because she knew her with a snag in l._a. She went to new york in his piece of advice to her when she told him about this play was by by the rights by the rights before it goes up on the theater by the rights which is genius because buying those rights is really what brought her career back because this play was a huge hit it it was so much like four hundred performances of it yeah and kind of the beautiful totem of that is the very last night that she performed this on stage. She said you know what i'm going to go out. There and the curtain calls as your opening owning curtain lowering the curtain opening the curtain lowering the curtain. Take my bows but acid after i do my last bow. Don't close a curtain again. Keep it open because i want to imagine that this played never shut down. I love that no. I don't mean to correct you because i could be wrong but didn't howard hughes by the rights for her. Maybe i don't no no like i think i've heard that story but i also heard that he just gave her the advice but maybe he bought it for like a gift. I had read that he had gotten he that she received them as a gift from howard hughes well. If so that is the nicest gift somebody could give anybody but they do know that she deferred her salary for forty five percent of the profits of the film and that it's a choice that you definitely made and that was a very smart choice because not only that she owned the rights but then she basically took in i mean most of the prophets i mean have almost almost half of the prophets which is a crazy thing again for the nineteen forties to have that much control you know as a leading actor i mean yeah. It's add some kind of weird shading to this moment in her life when she's doing play. There's this book called. Catherine secrets revealed and it's a biography of her that is basically about her sex sex life in ways that i'm like. I don't know how much i should even believe. This book like this. Book is kind of crazy. This book is a hundred percent crazy other books like when she was doing this play on stage with joseph cotten who we saw on citizen kane and also this man heflin that she was having an affair with both of them to add like the tension in that when she decided that when that she was ready to give up them in order to have cary grant and james stewart co-stars instead of them that heflin just deserted the roadshow production never talk to her again it was this book by the way is just the super crazy when it gets into the making of the actual movie movie. I don't know how much i want to believe this but it says that everybody onset just wanted to sleep with jimmy stewart like everybody likes to sleep but jimmy stewart carey grant wanted to sleep with jimmy stewart kate herself one sleep at jimmy stewart that they all heard that his penis was twice the size of clark gable's both which is a rumor that according to this book carole lombard was spreading and now i'm just like insane been you wanna think of jimmy stewart's large penis ding jimmy stewart's as little don't okay then think about this thing about a moment in this book again giant asterix this is just me being gossipy and not saying that jimmy stewart told them that he masturbated five times a day. She's like lovely man and you're filling my my head with this kind of blasphemy about his performance. I mean eighteen. I mean he had the energy to perform it after jerk in it five times times a day we're gonna be talking about some kind of negative jimmy stewart of the sassy jimmy stewart that we don't want a picture. Let's picture that in our head as we listen to him though rain ain't calling on people's house oh. What did i tell you let how do you like living room setting room terrorist pool stables tables so they can talk to the horses without having them in now. Don't mike <hes>. This is the bridal suite. Would you signed up a couple of caviar sandwiches and a bottle of beer. Ah this is the voice of doom calling your days are numbered to the seventh son of a seventh son. I not only is he not knows punky. Gotta say that's jay. Oh they dick energy all my gosh yeah. I guess that's big dick energy. I mean it seems more like he's just you know kind of blown away by the the wealthy upset i. I don't think he's i think maybe his big dick. Energy would be a scene where he's singing the song from wizard of oz and karen katherine hepburn to her bedroom in front of her fiance that she's marrying the next day now. That is some big energy. He doesn't even look at all daunted <hes> he's like an. I'm bringing her up to her bedroom later like that that to me. I mean we talk about b d. That's amedee amy when you were in school with the cool thing to have what will you will you poke them on where you <hes> with the way this podcast what we what was your thing as a slap bracelet kinda go we have separate says right now with my kids. I was a big scratch and sniff sticker person. I love scotches. Gotcha stephanie is weird. Yeah a little bit weird. It's hard to kind of capture <hes> but one of those things if you're cool you had them and if you weren't you didn't and now the coolest thing in school are boombox. Did you know that i did know that because i'm really likes to wear mini skirts and sneakers and socks yeah the socks. You need does this accident with that. They are super super comfortable and they're actually for kids now so the kids can share in the wealth that the adults have been in knowing about for a long time. They're designed with several comfort innovations that helped make them feel better than any other kids sock ever made. Just ask my kids if you can find them <hes> because if you can find them please tell me where they are because their mother is not letting me know please. Sheila let me know where my children are. Wow okay look look for the two little kids that belonged to share and very colorful socks on a tiny little b.'s. They look like yes they are bursting with color and every pair of bamba socks that you buy. They donate a pair so that's pretty cool. You're actually doing charity work by buying socks. That's really amazing. That's very i love the companies that do that and i think it's really cool. Obama's makes socks and also shares. They're awesome socks. I love my bomba's. <hes> my kids love their bomba's and i will say that i've been working out a lot more in the last couple of weeks to get ready for this part. People can't see you flex now. I'm like really i'm real soul and you don't like that but i'm real swell and <hes> and i'll tell you that i've been wearing those socks to work out and they're kind of the perfect socks because it's i don't like that much constriction around like my calf and everything like that so it's a nice little line on your catheter it off on that so weird so send your kids back to school with bomba's the socks that will keep them comfy colorful and ready to take on the school year. Visit bombay's is dot com slash unspoiled and get twenty percents off your first purchase. That's bomb busby u._m. Be a._s. Dot com slash unschooled for twenty percent off your first purchase bomba dot com slash us being jimmy stewart. I really loved him. In this film he really he plays a lot of different levels here and we talk about vulnerability and seeing him in that sequence where he is drunk. There is something thing that in watching i feel he captures the essence of drunk. I think it's one of the best drunk performances i've ever are seen. It just is it's fun. It's endearing. It's believable. It's a slightly off. I just i love the way he peers through the window of the car to get the car to his whole interaction with <hes> kari grant over at his house and away cary grant. It's kind of dealing with a little bit at arm's length but not you know in an aggressive wade you sort of like okay enough enough yeah when i was pulling clips for the show basically half the clips. I wanted to pull turn out to be different scenes of jimmy stewart drunk. I mean it's like watching. Tom hanks the'drug who was also a wonderful. There's a little bit. I wanna play some bits of the moment of him at cary grant's house because he was apparently improvising a lot of his drunk nut stuff stuff especially here when he's in carey grant house drunk and there's a moment where he catches cary grant so off guard by improving a hiccup carey grant apologizes for the hiccup cup up. You are the hope it's worth come on. I bring you greetings cinderella's slipper. It's called champagne. Champagne is a great leveler laboratory. It makes you my equal quite say that wile almost my seeking extra haven. I would like to talk to you. Let's go into the room. Don't tell me the bodies assume no no. I just felt like talking to you. I wonder if i might borrowed ranking costa newcastle. Oh castle excuse me. I love that scene. A great scene it's and he's staring at carey. Grant is so you can't take your eyes off of jimmy stewart in that part at all but i also love that idea that that first line in that scene where he talks about like class and this is a movie that is about class and where you fit in and and if if if high society makes you a better person or you know. Can you kind of mix it up and we have everyone in this movie trying to go outside outside of their class but angry at everybody else's class. It's a really interesting debate. I didn't really think about this movie like that until i was watching certain scenes like oh. It's so it's so much about this movie is yeah exactly i mean when you look at the three people that katherine hepburn has potential romance usually has cary grant who was just borne wealthy. They always keep talking grownup together. He is considered of her class right and she doesn't want to be with him at the beginning because she just thinks he is he didn't behave properly inroads in have his glasses supposed to act and we are introduced to care graham punching her or just face pomegranate like the alien face hugger yeah after she breaks his golf club <hes> and then you have the person that she supposedly in love with and wants to get married you know john howard's george. Kitschy is a guy who grew up very poor but did the american dream thing <hes> he worked his way up and he's introduced to somebody somebody with a lot of ambitions towards being the high class. You know you get the sense he's gonna run for senator someday acting the part but not actually being part they and they're showing him up and all these little ways he he doesn't know how to get on a horse. He doesn't know what yar means right you are you are you are but this idea of <hes> i will moment carey grant accuses him of of being below her class to burn and she's so offended that he's even acknowledging class right and he means like no is below your class in terms of just the fact that he's not cool enough. He can't hang being like not even that he was poor but just that he's not up to your level as a person and then there's jimmy stewart who is just like working class newspaper reporter intellectual classmate brahmin and he's the one who seems more obsessed with class and honestly anybody else in this entire movie because he feels like he doesn't belong in a not belonging he takes on everybody. He has to lower down the rich in order to feel more at home there will he views the rich as people he can't even connect to it's through those is as of the stereotypes that he has he thinks in these very prejudicial to all the rich people. He doesn't think that they belong and he's putting himself on that level. They're not saying it to him even even though the act out the the wealthy idea to kind of keep this ruse going of them writing the right article for spy magazine but it's interesting to see that his character i i think has one of the best arcs in the entire film because i think he realizes that we are all just people and if you get past the class you can actually connect with the person and and he does it from you know the most blatant way which is he falls in lime eve on the verge of marrying katherine hepburn this woman he he despises before even meeting her and and i wonder you know where we're at as a society where we're kind of wanting to lower the the rich because i feel like in the past other movies where like we want to obtain the rich. We want to be in that thing and here it was more like the every man you know is is <hes>. We're bringing them down a little bit. You know we're not making them so hoy away. Yeah you're right. 'cause i'm very much in this moment of eat the rich right but like eat the rich to store the deep fry the rich do whatever we take take their yachts use them to become shoney's buffets whatever i mean. I'm very i'm very down the right now. I'm not into into the shoney's but sure that's true. I've never eaten that issue pass by the fact that the message this movie is in one way arguably like be nice to to the rich people. They're just like us. Well have to but i mean it is funny to watch the rich people send up the idea of what rich which is you know especially would've your character isn't here is virginia we learn who plays her little sister lord one of the best performances in this fell and dinah lord literally ballet dancing in the film after being introduced as a kid who's just bring like baggy pants and a white shirt <hes> ballet dancing in a bunch of diamonds just to play up this idea of the stereotype people. We'll have rich people. How do you do that. You're not you. I am dying the lord. My real name is diana but my sister changed. I'm elizabeth emry. This macaulay comedy show coming south ifo oh credit before i spoke english early childhood to spend it paris for my father worked in a bank the house of morgan extremo. Can you play the piano full time. She's so terrific in a couple minutes later. You have katherine hepburn coming on and i love these parts. We're actors are playing dual roles. You know they're not to character. They're playing the character playing somebody else that the character is and it got gathering. It's like she's playing. I think so many levels she's playing tracy lord but then she's also playing katherine hepburn is tracy lord on some level but then she's playing this other level of like katherine hepburn as tracy lord making fun of what people think katherine hepburn his leg at her worst yeah which is this woman who kind of saunters in and in the most grandiose passive aggressive way figures out all the weak spots of who jimmy jimmy stewart and who miss m._b._r. When she doesn't know where like them at all. I'm mike to my friends at home. You have men. I'm english est. It's always fascinated me. Cromwell robinhood jack the ripper. Where did he teach a little high school in south bend indiana south. I've been it sounds like dancing doesn't he. You must've most hatay childhood there. It was terrific. No i didn't mean it that says so saudi why well lack of wherewithal. I guess that doesn't always happen. Does it not if you're the right kind of man george catch. My fiance never had anything either. I view matted no you but now you're slow. The fact is coming out in this chamber of course are not ashamed of it. What it was years ago. I was kid into lou. Heavens liz. You never told may never asked me. You know joe smith hardware. I love that there's this tension between the two of them between miss embryo in between jimmy and she just nailed it right away. She's like what is their weaknesses in their relationship and it's kind of this idea that miss emory has always assumed they might wind up as a a couple but then he doesn't really know her but then he should know her better and she just makes them awkwardly here. They've come to spy on her life and she immediately is like boom o. N. ruth hussy he is so great in this role and and ito it's a film that has this great female characters all across the board. I mean we talked about dina <hes> a little bit as well which was played by virginia welder but i feel like this is a movie where the women are outsmarting the men men and that's not even really the main story of the plot. It's just like but it's interesting because i think we've seen a lot of male dominated films where you know women and get a little bit more short shrift and this one is is a real exception. It was kind of refreshing to see what i love. Is that every moment where you think. The plot might go along this one route. You've oh she doesn't know that these two people are there to spy on her wedding. She immediately knows it there. Despite wedding like she's aware of everything all the time so as dina dinosaur is the first person so really detailed yelled on what's happening you take out the the first act twist by revealing it to everyone so the only people that are really in the dark are are macaulay and and elizabeth again so it's fun to watch the film in a way because it's like <hes> a reverse mystery yeah. I love that because i think suspense films can be really really interesting interesting but i do like it when a film has confidence to be like alright alright alright you know the joke now. They know the jokes straightaway and what happens now that we all know what's on the cards. We should talk really fast so about george cooker you know we touched on a bit in the past. He and katherine hepburn had this really really long history together. They made tons of movies before this point. They knew each other really well in. He knew her personality really well and they were comfortable. Fighting the story is like the first time that cooker met katherine hepburn. They had a huge fight over the costume she was supposed to be doing in this his film and then he made fun of the clothes shoes wearing in when she just showed up at his office he was like those are supposed to be expensive and fashionable and ugly. They're stinking. He made her get her haircut. I mean kuker is kind of an interesting figure. You know he's the guy who here we are having this movie about the rich and famous he was the middle class gate who really wanted to be rich and famous famous person. You know his his family when he was growing up they did. They took him to the theater. They went away for the summer. They did things they couldn't afford because they wanted him to be raised a little bit better and so when he became a rich screenwriter that was the life he lived. I mean katherine hepburn always talking about the dinner parties he would throw and how crazy they are and she writes about them in her book me she writes. She has pages by the way more pages about his house than she does about the philadelphia story itself while she says he he loved all of his treasures and that they represented his dream child's dream that once upon a dream come true that i'm the prince that i'm the princess i'm writing a great white stallion in that at his the house he had flowers so tall in the center of the table that she would sneak in before dinner and she would cut the mall down because you couldn't see each other at the table and that his walls were leather that there's crystal everywhere that he had matisses stravinsky betas house groucho marx would be at his house they would corner boosts and just talk at her that he was really a man who i think wanted to star in the philadelphia story in that house and live better interesting. You know it's like i always find that kind of you know not crazy z. Wealth but like this idea of like reliving part of your childhood disclose off. I think it most famously <hes> barbra streisand created a mall in the bottom of her house like because because as a kid she like you know kind of like she wanted to. She could never go to those places as she basically created the thing that you couldn't have now. It's like in her basement. It's like amazed at the pictures of it our stunning i mean i love that kind of pop psychology getting into a person's brain you know and it's weird because when you read more about their stories you have to alluded do a little bit of like exhaling and forgiving because cuco do things like he wants slapped her on the set of little women because her character was to run up the the stairs holding ice cream and he was like if you run up in laugh you are going to spill this ice cream on your dress and we don't have a second dress for you so do not spill this ice cream and she ran and she spilled ice cream and he went and he hit her which is a little bit like ballsy claudette colbert were part of why he was known as a woman's director is really just because he felt more comfortable hoteling women what to do but maybe it's all come back around because i did hear the greta gerwig would just slap the shit out of timothy <hes> shallow may on the new little just just to kind of get it back to you. I do wanna read this thing. Katherine hepburn said about kook. I think it's really interesting you know we talk a lot about who the directors is our and she was always a little bit miffed. That cuckoo wasn't put in that cast of great directors and she said impart she thinks it was because he had this stigma of being a woman's director director and here's kind of she analyze it. She says really rather than to give him as a women's director think of him as an actor's director in that cooper was so interested in making the actor shine whereas people john really interested in plot and so when you would say talk to john about his movie he would just wanna talk to you about all the cool things. He did it and all his angles john huston. She said it was exactly the same way that they didn't mean that. These men didn't have interest in the actors it just meant that they're more interested in themselves. As directors yet incor- would talk to the press about his movies instead of talking about you know the sets and everything he would talk about what was interesting to him which was his actors and his performances so the stories stories that will be written about them are really different. John <unk> it would be all about john ford and how great he was in a kuker story would be about him sharing the spotlight with his cast giving the spotlight to his cast and in a way that came to make him almost written out of the film history for what he was a good director who was nominated at least five times one one only once for my fair lady <hes> but like a lot of the films that he did do you know are films that are remembered. I mean obviously like adam's rib. <hes> you know this the movies that i feel like of philadelphia story <hes> obviously gone with the wind he like. I think he's made made a name for himself. As being someone who who's movies like stood the test of time like oh. Let's remake that or let's kind of like play on that fiend gene because the like the things i see that he has done. I mean even all the way up to <hes> my fair lady is that's a character piece and we've been remaking that forever over it feel like forever forever forever. I mean i guess is there is one thing that kind of lives forward on from the philadelphia story in in and maybe the way that katherine hepburn winds up being most known for her partnership with spencer tracy becomes the thing that really defines her from a few areas after this point on and spencer tracy would always say he didn't wanna work with katherine hepburn because you'd be like how can i do a picture with a woman who has dirt under her fingernails in his of ambiguous sexuality and always wears pants. It's philadelphia story and he was like okay fine. I will work with her and that's when they fell in love or that's when they became each other's companions. Beards words are in nobody ever agreed okay interesting interesting interesting okay so we are about to talk to somebody who's career here. I have been monitoring very closely the last year i find it incredibly exciting that she's here that she exists that she is making movies and i get to watch these movies. Her name is katie silberman. She is the writer of set it up up. Shasta rope book smart. She also wrote isn't it romantic. She is bringing back the romantic comedy in a big way and i for one in love with her for it locate so so basically philadelphia story is viewed as one of a._f._i.'s top five best romantic comedies ever and i wanted to know in in your mind like what are your favorite things that you obviously did not work on your favorite romantic comedies like your you know the films that you really respond to. That's such a good question. I think we'll the philadelphia story is definitely on there. I think the philadelphia story is the is the best example of comedy have remarriage this screwball comedy genre of the forties and fifties which i'm particularly drawn to i would say my roommate to companies are kind of broken down in those same decades because i think as time passed they evolved in such interesting ways so you know bringing up baby roman holiday the philadelphia story some older black black and white romantic comedies that really become <hes> beholden to not only the rules of the time literally what they were supposed to put out there but the societal rules and it's really interesting to see them evolve that way and then i would say obviously when harry met sally is such i mean maybe the best movie ever made but such specific slice of life of i think carried in the eighties when women were in the workforce in a real way and this the quality of the sexes was a big thing and so the idea of whether men and women could be friends was very applicable to people who probably interacting with him becoming close to a lot more people at the opposite sex than they ever had been outside of just the spouses of their friends or the friends of their or spouses off the top of my head. I mean i also have like ron comes like one side day which i don't think it's enough attention which i loved one of my favorites. I love that movie. I love that movie. That's why i think it's so refreshing to see a really well executed romantic comedy like it's like and then i imagine like as you were deconstructing it for. Isn't it romantic like what was it like to kind of. Look at it in the opposite way. I mean even though you know what it is because you've written it but like how is it to kind of deconstructing a little bit that was so much fun that was really fun too because i got to write that with by very dear friend dana fox and so that that was a really fun challenge trying to kind of have our cake and eat it too in acknowledge all of the things that we love about romantic comedies in exactly what you were saying not only because they make if you feel great but because in general and this is something i can talk about in terms of all the movies that we just referenced and i also can y the philadelphia story is such a perfect example. What kind of what started a lot of the qualities that we love the most about these movies. Is that in the best ones. Whether it's one fine day or when harry met sally or the philadelphia story it's about two people people who really challenge each other to be the best version of themselves and that's also this kind of hate to love dynamic just because when you're not trying to impress someone in the beginning you let them see exactly who you are and then they really challenge you to grow whether that's c k dexter howard and tracy lord and kind of the most intense version of it where if it's an ex ex-spouse they really know warts and all everything about you and can force you to grow into face their self in a way that that challenges and causes that growth or in one fine nine days when they see each other in the very beginning dislike each other immediately and because of that they're able to very cleverly call each other out all day on things that probably someone else wouldn't so that not knowing that that was the foundation of what we love about it. Isn't it romantic with so much because it allowed us to go back to a lot of different generations inter iterative romantic comedies and look at what has an aged as well. One of the things i think is so funny as you talked about. How like back in the philadelphia story days you know the difference aside overalls they had then what are the ones that are always fascinated fascinated by is that people are always just getting married impulsively or like tomorrow or like it's time and he does. It seems like one of the hurdles of writing are mentioned comedy. Today is we do not live in that world. If somebody even even calls you on the phone your little spooked we move slower so the house dates in a in a world that doesn't just make big decisions like this. I i mean it is funny in philadelphia story a proposal like a second date. It's like stewart and catherine hepburn. I've kissed one time and he's like okay. I know what to do and gets done. It's insane paid but i think that it there's an element to the way you that's so interesting. Just in terms of the comedy of remarriage which i think is fat even back then people acknowledge that the most interesting and dynamic stories where one were ones where people knew each other very well and had ups and downs and could challenge each other through those ups and downs and so but to imply that there was any sort of intimacy that would that would play into that that dynamic they had to have been married married and divorced. That was the only way they could get the code so it. It's kind of like if you remove the wedding ring from one. It's followed a lot of the same dynamic namic even for something like said when you're putting together. It's the intimacy that's growing over the course of the story kind of near as the intimacy that seek aid extra howard and tracy lord have in the beginning of the philadelphia story. It's just a traditional romantic engagement that we see now would have been a marriage if they were gonna show it onscreen now we can grow it in that similar way and it's interesting too. Oh i think to try and tell modern stories that way because marriage was such a a assumed ending for everyone that now telling a story about two people who are theoretically radically choosing to be together forever it seems like a much bigger deal to really tie yourself to someone especially if you're telling a story about younger people and and when you know when they would make that choice and maybe more meaningful than it would in earlier movies when it was kind of the thing you did after you went three days in the movies and then you're like okay i guess we're getting married so blunt try and set up relationships that feel not that they need to end in marriages or engagements or anything like that but examining in that same way like why would someone in modern sometimes choose to be with someone in a monogamous you know theoretically forever way which is happening less and less i mean i want to also talk about casting you because because i love zoey deutch in particular and set it up it. I remember the first time that one of my friends in the film later we both saw vampire november the vampire. Why am i forgetting vampire academy. I actually academy and i'm so sad that i blinked on the name but he watched vampire academy and he was like oh that's rosalind russell you know when he saw us perform and you got the same thing out of her. I mean what is it about the kind of finding somebody who can do this old fashioned type of fast intelligent talk. It was so much fun first of all to see her in realize that not only could she do what she was going to elevate anything that was on the page. I think she's a genius and i also think glen powell is similar in that specific rhythm to hit. It's such a specific frequency that they both needed to hit and it's not only their speed beat and they're charming. They're delivery but then the chemistry with each other but it it was a dream. Come true to find someone who was as talented and it's kind kind of naturally organic with it and not playing a part or felix. Who's playing an accident. I i gave her a gift afterwards which was a big poster of katherine hepburn because she she loves katherine hepburn. She is one of her heroes and i really think that she is the kind of person and possesses the kind of grounded intelligence while still being really funny where you can throw her or anything and you believe her but you also are so delighted by her just speed and wi and brain and that's what i love about so many of these classic romantic comedies also with that the women were really smart and funny and and you were just they were going so fast. You're going to go along with whatever they were saying. You were already in by any time you realize what was happening. Katherine hepburn between this movie and bringing up baby to dynamically different performances but both are these like incredibly the smart capable characters. They are like you don't wanna mess with either one of them but they are so dynamically different. Absolutely there's also this story of what was going on behind. The scenes with phil philadelphia. Story is like in so many ways. It's a framework for the kind of romantic comedies that i personally loved going forward and you can. Let's see how much it inspired. All of those not just the dynamics between the love interest but the i mean it's like to the first movie to set up the trope of the journalists who wants to do real l. work stuck doing really trivial stories which usually we gave the women but this was the first movie to have that it was just the guy who was doing it. I mean i have to say like sometimes. I wonder why more actors of this generation don't realise what it can do for you and the way the audience feels about you to do romantic comedies you. I always think of people like tom hamilton. Who who i get why he does so many marvel films get. They've made him a national multinational celebrity but if tom huddleston was in the kind of movies at hugh grant used to do in the nineties on god that just seems like he could be filling his pockets with love from the audience. This is crazy question to ask you because i'm putting you on the spot but i'll ask it nonetheless and say if you were to recast this film and you know who would you like to see in a re imagined version of the philadelphia story eh with modern day cast or maybe we keep it open. We'll keep it open to anybody. You could do anything you want. I would say you know i think having worked so he and seen what she can do with a scene of dialogue and seen how she can play strong and smart and brilliant and vulnerable at the same time i i think she would crush any remake. The katharine hepburn movie. I would be first in line to see that it would make me so so happy. I also think we have so many me. Amazing actors is kind of this adrian right now. I think emma stone crush any of these roles you know. She's now obviously a wonderful director who i love working with but i think libya wild has the same kind of brilliant delivery that could really crush a role like this. <hes> any of those guys are excited about and then in terms of the men obviously pushier timely see you see i mean glenn would destroy a role roll like that. I i in either. What's up fun. Glenn is i think he could play c k dexter howard or macaulay connor equally well. I mean you know who i adore and i think is is like ripe for a movie like this o._j. Jackson junior is so funny and so charming and i think that he could play any anywho jimmy stewart played. I mean that's the other thing we were talking about. Whether or not it is hard to watch this and not recognize that there's not a single not white person having about going forward. Maybe already know this and if not i apologized for shocking you but when harry met sally is not on the top one hundred list and and to me it just seems to speak to me to some sort of idea of how do we elevate romantic comedies films that really are deserving of respect especially when they're in color and not black and white. I think we're safer applauding black and white ones because we're like at least it's old yeah. You're totally right. I mean it. It shocked me when i learned that this movie any won the oscar for best green clay might just thought that there was a time when romantic comedies would win oscars little and be nominated for them so i don't know what it'll take to to have them be taken more seriously both going forward kind of as movie thing released posted to a guilty pleasure i or sometimes surprises people when they consider any haulers a romantic comedy or when they consider certain movies i bought the silver linings playbook was a romantic the comedy that just kind of disguised itself as an oscar movie it was structurally set up that way and it really was about that same kind of it was about a relationship dynamic the same same way i think if you would cut a different trailer you can make it seem like something else so i don't know if we have to kind of trojan horse it and surpri trick people into realizing that they're loving and watching a romantic comedy or if as we make more and more that maybe you're a throwback to the original screwball or when harry met sally just character heavy and dialogue heavy and very focused movies you know one thing that i really love about the philadelphia story is how seriously takes all three characters that you get a lot of things with them. I'm alone and and there's a lot of attention paid to their dreams outside of romance and their careers and their lives and their interest and i think that's what makes the great romantic comedy. That's the same with <hes> with when harry met sally obviously is we follow them through their lives. That's the same with one day. The both of their jobs are so important that they have such rich and full lives outside of whatever you know. Spark is happening between the two of them and so i think those are the movies i think that remain elevated above dijana in general or the ones that people connect with the characters that well so i hope that that's kind of continuing momentum and we'll shove more and more of these movies back on i'm willing to start starting march or whatever harry met sally on the list you guys tell me and i will be absolutely you're awesome. Thank you so much. God i'm having you. I'm honored to be a part of the thank you so much for including katie because what really really rang true to me in what she was saying was the idea how generational like new romantic comedies have to come in because they're talking about how people fall in love in the present day and i think that's part of the the charm of these movies we all have our romantic comedies the ones that speak out to us. I would say that a lot of people who probably in. They're young teens to early twenties. The kissing booth is very big for them. I know that movie was giant on netflix because it's spoke to them at an age and a time that's appropriate for for them and and i love that idea that we all have our own touchstones through romantic comedies interesting thing about talking about the way that women are presented in this film the they did that. Did you hear louis b. Mayer objected to katherine hepburn wearing a pantsuit yes and she looks a linen pants. What's wrong. That's a great outfit. Ah by the way but yeah. I thought that was such an interesting thing. It was like what are you. I mean i know you have a lot more knowledge about this era like was that just because it was unfit minen or was it to be not not as sexy as address might be or was too masculine. What was what was the idea. I think it's a bit of both i think he wanted audiences to see her as more feminine and then she wanted to be seen <hes> and so we thought maybe if he put her in a bunch of ruffles people would love her more and i think she wanted to be kind of the movie is she wants to be loved for who she is and i and she looks so good in pants and you can't help but notice how well you know. Adrian is most israel like really famous taylor and in this moment of inner life he figures out these ways to dress her that that makes still look really sexy and glamorous always focusing on our waste. Yes i love they will of course it was great. It's so beautiful you know he dresses. I think so well scene by scene for what's happening putting you know she has that moment where everybody's calling her the goddess and he has addressed in this bathing costume that kind of looks like a toga who's like a goddess and then later on when jimmy stewart what is telling her that she reminds him of a star something distant and cold and far away and holocaust holocaust this is right before we knew the holocaust was just only negative word or or we only use it that way you know he calls her a holocaust like whoa but he has her dressed in that scene in star like glittering rhinestone things and he just always kind kind of slightly matching what people are are describing her as what she's wearing. The one that i think is really interesting to is her wedding dress. It basically looks like she's wearing ship nuts around waste. I like that outfit strange. I didn't even know it was a wedding dress really yeah for getting. It looks like just something she just wear because she is wearing it in a very casual away. It wasn't like she put like it's as if she put on that wedding dress and came down to be doing normal business around the house like it's not that's easily a wedding dress or is that just address cheering impre- wedding but i guess it is i guess it is. I mean in her world. It looks like what you wear to breakfast but it's also a wedding dress and i don't know if it's maybe some sort of costumer tell that it looked so nautical to me with the rope butter waste she's being pulled in or yeah yeah and that she's falling in love the guy who has a boat for her right yeah yeah boating types swimming types. If that's what's happening we'll talk to you also about like this idea of how is he kind of portrays trays sex right we we are in this world where we can't do too much with sex but i was surprised at how much we could do with drunk we you want to show people of one sort of manners but not another sort of manners and and why is drunk more acceptable and and and you know really for katherine hepburn her character never drink thinks and drinks and then this is when she drinks the night before her wedding and it's when we see her at her most loose and and this is when she realizes i mean she essentially goes oh. The drinking released me from this man. Let me like it untie unmortgaged me from this boating man you know but there is something interesting about that. How how we could never say oh like good sex. Got her there or or you know or that guy had bats guys like i think it should come from a more are passionate place but it has to come from more of a well. Let's get them as drunk as we can and they can really reveal what they feel because they do know how they feel. They can't articulate it. Which is an it's. It's an odd way of love. Island bachelor paradise is having little musical cue and she starts pounding champagne and they're just like to emphasize how much she's drinking. Never saw <hes> i love it actually reminds me of two <hes> not to keep on going back to once upon a time in hollywood but when dicaprio's character is asked about the great escape and every every time he's that he's mentioning that like a piano comes in on gone emphasizes every single time. It's a yeah it's a great way to kind of like point the audience emotionally connect you to what's going on here and that always feels like a kind of dreamy kinda the fast forward oh you know yo- injuring into the twilight zone of sound but yeah i mean the thing is like this movie is so weird right because has it's kind of a reverse taming of the shrew is like we're gonna tame the shrew. It's like we're going to break the statue. We're gonna take this woman who's perfect now a mess her up a little bit the way that she makes her fiance like rubber pants in the dirt but she all but it's weird because we're introduced to her. You know roughly you know tackling and her fiance and making him dirty so you'd be oh so she's the rich person who doesn't want to be rich but yet we're but the scene before she's kinda lounging on the couch you see are surrounded by these gifts you know talking about omelette and then you know throw spell almost yeah and then you see her throughout the film and and you're kind of it's it's weird like i mean on that level because she seems like she's a person to get down in the dirt and get messy but then you also seems like she is what they call her. A prig or are approved they treat her in both ways because early on and how are we just getting the cheese kind of like the non rich rich person but no she is is the rich rich person yeah. I think the strange thing for me with this movie is i like it. I guess anthropologically <hes> because i keep having to stop and check like myself too because everybody in this movie seems to dislike her and when i was reading the reviews and i'll read some of them in a bit all the reviews talk about how terrible tracy lord.'. And i watched this movie i think she's great from the lake modern gogol generation. It's hard for me to see the moments lord she's wrong in people's eyes of the thirties but the people are telling her you suck and i mean the most apparent moment of that is what her father tells her like. Take this scene if not seen the movie. This scene was jaw-dropping yeah lately. We've needed to hear that because like kind of as context if you haven't seen it tracy has been avoiding her dad and trying to boycott them from the wedding because her dad has been sleeping with a showgirl in new york ed. She says you know for her mom. Her mom needs to cut them off and not talk to her anymore and her. Mom has kind of sad moment. She's like okay well now. I have my self respect and no husband and this is the movie kind of taking that even one step further by her dad's defensive why why she's acting towards him as wrong. That's very wise if you margaret but most wives fail to realize is that their husbands philandering has nothing whatever to do with him and then what has it to go with a reluctance to grow old. I think i suppose the best mainstay a man can have a gets along in years as a daughter the right kind of daughter. I'm talking seriously about something. I've thought over thoroughly. I've it had a devoted girl gives a man the illusion that uses still his important because without her he might be inclined garton search abuse. That's just as important as it is to any woman but with a girl of his own full of warmth for him full of foolish unquestioning listening. I'm critical affection. I've got none you have a good mind pretty face a disciplined body the best what you tell you have everything it takes is to make a lovely woman except the one essential and understanding heart and without that you might just as well be made of bronze. I mean it's a pretty damning thing and and i mean it's a crazy easy thing to say because it starts off with. I think a true statement. You know that you know cheating on someone is attempt to regain your youth. Do you know and then he can't take all that blame so he basically you're the you're the reason if you were not as as much of like a jerk or prager prude whatever he calls like i wouldn't have done this and what a what a crazy thing and he's known on hold them up to any sort of like you know like hey hold on a second can take that back. What did you say hold on that like. She takes thin. You're right. You're yeah right yeah. It's it's terrible but you're right yeah. Nobody questions that i mean that is one of the things that's so upside down in. This movie is basically like drinking is good cheating on your fiance the day before the wedding is probably fine if he's not the right person i mean that's the only way to kind of find out really yeah exactly and also the the joke. Is that when kids <hes> <hes> here that their parents are getting divorced. The parents are like it's not your fault but this is a movie where they're like. No it is yeah. This is your fault but it's not even like it's your fault because you've made it difficult your fault because you're unlovable. If you're more lovable like you're wrong. You don't love me enough yeah. If you loved me more. I wouldn't be sleeping with someone your age. What hold on oh boy oh boy. This is a real a real tough nut to crack here. I know we okay. This movie is kind of insane. I mean all of the morals in this movie. You have to just not have them right. Well i mean you can't i think look we're. We're not going can't unpack what was acceptable. Well at the time because none of these movies especially comedies at this time hold up to any sort of scrutiny is it is a wild world. It's a wild world where you you know. People are arguing over pants suits offset so we like we can't we can't get into it because i mean in my mind what you wanna see. Is you want jimmy stewart and her to have sex like right. Hundred percent you know and it's like and and it makes the end even better if they do because he does grow up. I mean that's what that's that's. What <hes> you know. She wants him his his camera person. She wants him to kind of go up before they get together that would i mean it makes the movie so much better better if they totally had sex the night before it would have been perfect. You know win. They kiss. I'm just all all in on her and jimmy stewart almost don't want her to get back together with cary grant because the thing is if a movie about carey grant being like screwed up. He doesn't really do anything to change ribs francis him. He's kind of cary grant. I think is not quite as compelling in this movie as easing granted. I totally agree with you. He is version. We haven't really talked about. I much yet and i think it's because it's kind of an unspectacular role for him. I've seen be more charming. I seem to be more funny. I've seen seen him play a better version of this character and it seems to me like he's just abbadi like it was supposed to be clark gable. Thankfully it wasn't because him and george kuku did not get along during gone with the wind but any at a commitment that didn't allow them to be there and there's an element to that like i just i found him him. I wanted to be more charming. Yeah i wanna do better yes. I just wanted him to kind of swoop in and be this undeniable force and it's kind of written like that but he but he's not like he's not. He's not like aggressively charming. He's not he's very good but he's i can see somebody else. Do this part way better. I could see him to this part. Which is why. I think it's really frustrating because you have that moment where he's goofing around with the candles like they're on the table or where he in writing like a little bit more charged a little more funny a little more charismatic. He's so dial down that it's confusing which is odd because he picked the part he was given his choice of the two leads needs and he picked what he thought was the more showy role but i don't think it's a showy role. I actually think it's weird. I think the leash showy role is kid bridge but he could play it in the really funny way because he just play in. I think actually is underplayed as well. I think that you could play the buffoonery the edo oh the trying to fit into high society. I think he played almost very maudlin. That's connected to jimmy stewart ingathering because they're kind of electric in both their roles and the other two are doing serviceable serviceable jobs exactly you know i mean. Let's play that kiss because to me when this happens <hes> movie over all right. We've had our couple. The sentence loved canet. No mustn't be would it be inconvenient. Anyway insteps mouthing. What is it about feet of taos and it's not just go now trump's <music> now with all that being said i have to say at the end. I really liked that. They got back together a fake. He comes alive a little bit in the end. I think from the scene where he has <hes> his moment with ketteridge like he starts. It's almost like he starts to wake up at the end but again his arc is really non existent. If you were to draw anything here like. I don't see what he learned it. Don't thirty ways changing a sort of like no no. We were never supposed to be a part just because we disagree doesn't mean we're supposed to be a part yeah. I mean i think he is so much more interesting at the end because you see him trying to protect kit trajan ways yes when he catches it. There's the jewelry that's been left on the table. That will really prove that. Catherine had a night with jimmy stewart which he thinks was boning joining you. He tries to keep him and he's like you. Don't wanna know this and he makes this argument that maybe it's better if this guy just never knows what might have happened the night before his wedding and that i kind of like there's no way an argument that people get to have their secrets if they keep making the right choices once they've made their commitments. I agree that it's a it's a question of. Do you wanna know so if your spouse has cheated on you if if it doesn't really truly mean anything and i think different people have different points of view but you know if i mean it's a it's a whole different podcasts but it's you know but i think yeah but i do think there's an element to that. I feel like if she was to get married it to him. I don't think that you'd be pining after jimmy stewart clearly. She wasn't pining after jimmy stewart i mean there are some tiny moments. I think he really knows like win. Jimmy stewart it comes out with katherine hepburn and his arms u._c. Cary grant looked down to notice her toes curling. He's been calling her this marble statue and he looks at her body and it's moving in ways that i have not been happening into picks up on it and i love him for that but yeah like if he was an equal player man if he just brought the fire if he wanted and he was like i'm your ex-husband charming his l._v. played it more light clark gable. Can you imagine wh but that's what i'm saying like we earlier in the show. This ryan gosling ryan reynolds emma stone stone kind of relationship. I could see ryan reynolds doing that part really well like you know kind and like i think what am i missing from cary. Grant is stoking the fires. I don't find him to be enjoying stoking. The fires. I think the parts of the -joy is him being a good person him interacting with everybody and and kinda telling everybody you know straight up what it what it is you know and and and i think that that's a great thing but if you just stoke the fires a little bit more. I think it'd be more fun to watch him kind of being master. Yeah agreed because that's exactly what he is. He's brought even jimmy stewart to this place and at the end we see him literally been master when he's telling catherine what to say to the room full of the eh the audience for the wedding and oh yes it's. It's almost like the candle sequence on. He becomes the character that i wanted to say exactly. I know that we're taking awesome shots at cary grant <hes> but i will say to his credit. He demanded <hes> his salary to be one hundred and thirty seven thousand dollars for for his role which is a giant amount for the time however he donated it all to the british war relief fund so maybe his mind was on the all the soldiers overseas it. It might be and you know he actually said the part where his mind was as well when you shooting. This film was just appreciating jimmy stewart his exact quote was jimmy just simply mesmerized memorize me on screen. Did he want to fuck him to according to this book i watched him act. I felt like a triangle player in the orchestra who keeps watching the conductor and then when he finally gets the baton john signal. He misses his triangle so maybe he was just like oh. My god well. Jimmy stewart is doing a lot. It's a it's a fun performance. <hes> <hes> really really good <hes> you know. There's something else interesting on. This is a as far as jimmy stewart. Jimmy stewart seemingly had not not a hard time but it was very self-conscious throughout the whole film and we talked about how he felt bad about even being nominated for nas created. We want to go to the ceremony but it i even happened on set that they had to bring in noel coward to encourage jimmy stewart who was nervous about performing the where he reads poetry to tracy so like coward had to come in there and kind of offhandedly mentioned that he thought jimmy stewart was a fantastic performer and this kind of snapped him out of his funk and then give this phenomenal you know performance performance in the scene but i i think it's so funny that he's such an aw shucks guy to be so in his head and seemingly a i mean it plays into it a little bit it but it also seems like it seems that there was a method to his madness. I always feel like he's so like elitist showed up designs and happy and you know and that was it and it seems that there's a lot more going on on inside of him. Maybe that means just having that set of big giant sean out there. He just like couldn't focus on anything else. Maybe that maybe thinking about that big sean which i think you should be right now. Helps explain this other story about the making of it which you know he had to do. A bathing scene apparently in the script was supposed to get in his swimsuit and he refused to get into swimsuit. It said that the reason why is his legs too skinny it. He said that if i'm in this bathing suit i know that it's not only just the end of my career but the end of the film industry as we know it self consciously it was eh legs but maybe it just as dick was too big and he wasn't ready to put it out wire their three legs. Why is one of them so much bigger than the eh who did jump in the water. <hes> was rather new performed our own swimming pool dive stunt. That was her <hes>. Apparently you know she took great pride in that even razzing. Jane fonda on golden palm login was afraid to do her dive. She said i did it. Philadelphia story the way to go a we were thinking about jimmy stewart though while we're talking about him being insecure and his dick so when he wins the oscar for this. He's a little bit embarrassed issues like i wanted to ask her for. Maybe the easiest thing i've ever done whatever his roommate at the time when he wins the oscar is somebody we've seen in. This podcast is burgess meredith from rocky. Oh whoa roommates at the time when he comes home with his oscar burgess meredith just says where'd you get this ocean pier park and then jim is like okay fine so then he tells his dad like hey guess what i want. An oscar is like oh is that a plaque is he's like sure send me the oscar for safekeeping kid and so jimmy's like okay any males his oscar off to his dad's hardware store in pennsylvania and his dad just put it in a glass case in his hardware store and by the way. Do you know the other part of that too. Is that a forever. That oscar has a misspelling on it. They misspelled spelled. Philadelphia makes me feel so much better because i'm always misspelling philadelphia well. It's bad for jewish really got it on all sides he at least had his very on his own oscar. Amy amy amy amy <hes>. Obviously this movie is beloved. <hes> what did <hes> people at the time thing about it did this bring in katherine it well we know what brought katherine hepburn out of her box office poison role but what do people say. Everybody loved it. Honest like i went through a bunch of us and i couldn't didn't find anybody saying anything bad about it has one hundred percent rating on rotten tomatoes based on eight critic reviews. That's crazy. I mean yeah tiny couples like i found one sentence here. Okay one-sentence there. The jackson sun said it's not exactly what the sensor would consider a plus entertainment for the juvenile this the saint louis post dispatch said talking about kitchen the actor john howard they said perhaps john howard's role was most neglected by the playwright who shows no sympathy for the self made man at all fair point other than that. I just kind of pulled the rest of these clips because to me. It's just so interesting to hear them. Describe this character in a way. It's hard for me to understand other. The saint louis post dispatch went on to say miss. Hepburn takes a hundred hurdles without even touching them. You can hate her enjoy her wonder at her and sympathize with the poor little kid on on this basis ten minutes sometimes surely isn't bad and you get to know her. This tracy lord and her purpose is really rather commendable. She just needs to be taught a thing or two and she has taught like okay fine nine and the austin american statesman also kind of said what everybody was thinking we have so long associated miss hepburn with this part that we find it difficult to say more than the obvious she is is it tracy lord buried just escapes making tracy authority thoroughly disagreeable young lady. We don't know why it is that we lake from the start despite her smugness and lack of warmth perhaps perhaps that is miss. Hepburn's triumph is skill. She will not let you dismiss tracy as a little pig but keeps you waiting for the time when she will let down reserves and become lovable. It's just weird weird to me that people are like this character comes out says mom dad is cheating on you. I don't like him and everyone's mad at her confusing to me but taylor v <hes>. We really uncovered a lot of things but i guess the question that everyone uncovers this. Is there a simpson's. I feel so bad about the maltese falcon thing that i've run three simpson's. Oh come on. Don't don't don't talk down now. This is that i brought in none of them. I would say are especially about philadelphia story about katherine hepburn and i think this is our final katherine hepburn film on the list so i thought you know what let's do. Katherine hepburn right in actors. I truly love center out with three clips of the simpson's. <hes> the very first one is from an episode called homer goes to college. Homer is applying for colleges. He's supposed to say what books he loves and he has a surprising book on that food. See list your three favorite books and how they've influenced your life book genesis negligence now. Katherine hepburn's me doc. It's is a great book. Y'all should read it. There's also a character who is inspired very much by katherine hepburn. It is in the episode lisa's pony lady. I'm buying a pony for my my little girl and i don't care what it costs very cool. That's done in creature over. There is half a million dollars. He was sired by seattle battle slew and his mother won. The kentucky. Derby is like this is a step in tanzania turkey miss simpson. Do you have half a million billion dollars. Sure let me richard check mister simpson. This check is dated january first two thousand fifty four problem with her crave and then the last one i included because i think it most captures the spirit of how people felt what about her before you're stretching stretching but we're getting all of our our katherine hepburn's because they're alaska there. I mean these are not these are not philadelphia in story and this is from an episode called catch if you can got it grandpa simpson is trying to pick up a woman woman on the beach y'all mob barring my husband and he's dead well. I bet i smell better at the moment. It's about even can't wait till we it buried l._s._d. You hepburn types rarely a well. Any i mean here we go. We've talked about this movie. It's the the last one that will be doing catherine hepburn <hes>. Do you believe that this belongs on the list of <hes> the best movies of all time you know i love love this movie and suddenly i find myself in the same position as bringing up baby that i wanna kick the can a little further down the road and and say if we can only have one screwball black and white romantic comedy so i can share the wealth already and put more on the list. Maybe my favorite one. Is it happened one night or maybe it's sullivan my leave. Save that is also a great one by the way there is a lot of <hes> barbara stanwyck old movies on criterion terrific. I just watched this one called night. Nurse this weekend and you if you really dug a barbara stanwyck if you dig at present movie night nurse nightmares by the way has a young clark gable in it without a moustache being evil. How does he look without moustache. He looks really weird. Handsome he comes on and you're like that can't possibly be him and then halfway through. He gives a look and you're like okay. It is him but it's very weird. He needed the mustache and again. I want to just pump the movie that i like so much. <hes> bonfire directed nineteen forty one bhai howard hawks where barbara stanwyck plays sugarbush oce should the bus show <hes> <hes> all right so i mean you know if i was to decide between this movie and bring a baby. I kinda think i would go. Bring a baby if you force me to pick like right now. That's where i would go. I liked this movie a lot but i think what i find so unique about bring a baby is that ah katherine hepburn is doing something out of her wheel house. We've already had her in her wheelhouse <hes> so we don't need to have to in a real house. It should me a side of her. That really made me. I mean i've had some real eye opening moments in the show <hes> for actors and directors but like that one really kind of pulled in so right now. That's how i feel but i but again. If you said harry met sally that we talked about harry motelier- i mean what i put this over here and we put harry met sally over this yeah. I think i would to just makes me cringe because because i do really look shooting make you cringe. It's me we got to make space. It's only hundreds all hundred jimmy stewart all over this list. It's really all over this well. I mean look and we have to make one hundred and at least for me anyway. Thirty of them need to be about war and then fifteen about vietnam. How many jimmy do you think they're more jimmy. Stewart movies on this list and there are inches. Jimmy stewart's you know what i mean. That's a very interesting thought. It's a maybe a little bit investigative. We should maybe turn to do a trusted news source which will be doing next week. When we talk about network we are going to get into a classic sidney lumet film <hes> you know where people are mad as hell and they're not gonna take it and we're going to find out if we can take it as we talked about network <hes> i think it'd be fun to hear that classic line done a little differently for next episode <hes> so you know maybe eighty year inspired to say that line in a way that might be the way that borat might say it or might be the way <hes> very southern outhern man or woman would say like i say ooh u's your best way and your best judgment of saying mattis. Hell and i'm not gonna take it anymore. They it just can't be newscaster. You it has to be indifferent bonus points if i can guess here impressionists all my ambitions on rations. I need to give us a call at seven four seven six five eight two four seven six six five eight two four and we will see you next week four network <music>.