19 Episode results for "Benazir Bhutto"

Fatima Bhutto

Monocle 24: The Big Interview

29:13 min | 1 year ago

Fatima Bhutto

"I think in a culture where you have to be somebody. But you have to be that somebody all the time, and you have to followers, and they have to approve of you, and like you and you have to constantly be performing a version of popularity or significance. What does that do to people on the fringes of their society who are not wanted and desire who are not like, not popular? I think it drives you to a place of anger, really powerlessness and that creates a really bizarre impulse in return. Thought amaafuza is part of the Pakistani political dynasty. She was born in Kabul. Afghanistan and grew up in exile in Syria before returning to Pakistan, her family's histories, one of subsequent tragedies. Her grandfather. The former prime minister of Pakistan was hund- by his successor her uncle died from suspected poisoning her father. A prominent political activists was killed in a spray of police bullets in her memoir songs of blood and sword. First Mabuto, hold her aunt Benazir Bhutto Pakistan's, prime minister that the time of the killing and a husband the diary responsible. The diary was jailed for the murder, but became president after his wife was assassinated while campaigning in an election. He still a member of the national assembly today, but Bhutto's most recent book the runaways is a bold story about radicalism belonging and Muslim identity. I'm Georgina Godwin and to. Tell us more about the book and to intricate family history. Fatima join me in London on the big interview. Festival. The story begins really with your grandfather, tell us about him. Well, my grandfather is currently Bhutto was by first democratically elected head of states, and he was in power. And by Senator time when the country was really fresh from partition and independence, and he brought with him the hope and the promise of something new. It was a moment. I think Rebecca sonny's felt that the world was open to them with a future was opened them on when he was removed in a coup. D'etat by a CIA backed dictator general zeal hawk that ended that moment for bison. And what followed was the bag sanity, you know, today. One in which the army has incredible control over the country one in which a nation has been quite brutalize and all that goes back to general hawks nineteen seventy seven martial law. So. So a lot of the laws we have in place in the country against women against minorities. You know, the blasphemy laws all those date back to zero. So my grandfather, really, I think represented something to to the country that we haven't really seen since then not at least I haven't seen it in my lifetime. And I'm thirty six years old of grown up in the shadow of the hawks dictatorship on your grandfather was hunt. He was the family was never allowed to see the body. So we were told he was hanged, but they never actually knew the dictatorship buried him before his family could see him. But he was arrested. He was kept tawdry confinement. And that he was killed. But the family political dynasty continued. It did continue. But I don't think anyone really has managed to represent those ideals that the family in politics I began with and by sons history since then has been such a choppy one, you know, even in periods where we've had democratic. Pakistan. I can't really say it's been very democratic holding elections is the most basic step of democracy. But it certainly not the only one now you'll father vowed to resist that the knee. Yes, he did. And my father's life really was defined by what happened to his father. My father was twenty five years old when his father was executed, and he had spent in two years traveling around the world lobbying for his father's life, which I wrote about in songs of blood and sword and he resisted the dictatorship. And he spent sixteen years an exile from Pakistan. So when he returned back to back San he'd been away for sixteen years, he returned back in nineteen ninety four because he'd want an election. So he was a member of parliament. And he was killed not even two years into his return to his country. Let's took about his time away. Because that's when you born in fight you born in. Afganistan? Yes, I was born in Kabul under curfew must be childhood. Well, I was quite young when we left Kabul. I was I think only three or four months old when my family left, but then they went to Syria until I grew up in Damascus and the Damascus of my childhood really wasn't anything like one sees today in the news. I mean, certainly if you were a political opponent of the government's it would have been incredibly difficult place to be but on the other hand, if you were a woman, if you were a minority if you gave Syria was really quite an idyllic, calm, quiet place, and the Assad family wasn't very kind to you. Well, they gave us asylum. Really? They kept us an allowed us to live in Syria. And so we did I was twelve years old when we left, but you know, I thought of myself as Syrian for so long because it was only home I really knew. So until the war would go back all the time. I'm and I would really like to go back now. I mean, I don't know if it's safe. Maybe damascus. But I don't know. So it is I suppose one of the first homes I lost with Syria. The must've been quite an interesting time between going back to Buxton and before the reporting tragedy of of your father's death. Will you know, I grew up in the way, I guess many exiles grew up with this constant promise of home and the return to home. So growing up. I was seven years old. The first time, I visited Pakistan, a never seen it until then, and it was a place that I knew really through my father and through his memories and his belonging really to be home. So how'd this all tremendous notion of what by San was and what it meant? And would it could be and he would say all the time. This year will go home this year will go home. It'll be next year we go home. And of course, we never did on then one year. Remember, he said it and it started to become true. So for my father was a very exciting on, of course. I came with a lot of anxiety and threat of violence and was a turbulent time. But for him the idea of his homecoming was so exciting because he loved his country so much, and he he sort of lived in limbo when he was away from it. You know, he never really learned Arabic. Even though he spent sixteen years or less than Syria. But because he kind of lived in this sort of transit period for me. It was a little sad to leave Syria because I was the only place. I've no my friends with Emma school was there everything I knew about the world was in Syria. But I was also very excited to finally go home with my father. And once we reached by son. Of course, the reality of going home was much starker and less, romantic and more terrifying. Than unless anonymous people absolutely knew who you were less anonymous. Yes. Because growing up in Syria. Nobody knew I was nobody. Nobody cared. Nobody knew I went to an international school. There was only one other by sending in the entire school who arrived just round nineteen nineteen. His name was unfortunately for him Saddam Hussein. So there was a sense that I was I was sort of one of anyone at school. I never really felt anyone looking at meal watching me or anything like that. And then in bags, of course, it was a different experience. But I think I was lucky enough to have not grown up in that because it made me forever suspicious of attention. He talked father about him writing his own life story. Yes. Actually just before. My father was killed. It was his birthday two days before he was killed, and we'd had dinner, and we were sitting up late at night and talking, and I was asking him all these things, and I said to him, you know, your life is so interesting. What are you write a book? And he said to sort of the coffee said, well, you know, you do it for me when I'm gone, and I was thrilled always very close to my father. But I was really excited at the idea that he would allow me trust me with such a responsibility. And you know, I wanted to start taking notes immediately in an hey, sort of lofted means no when I'm gone not now. Of course, two days later, he was gone. And so it was always in the back of my head the idea that I had this promise to my father. And I started the research for songs of Lennon's or long before I wrote it I started writing it in two thousand and eight because I had a sense that the people who I held responsible for my father's killing. We're gonna come back to government. And I thought if they come back to government they're going to raise things. So I no longer had any excuse to wait at the time of his death. Your aunt his sister Benazir who was in charge of Pakistan. You describe that night. Tell us what happened. Well, my father was a member of parliament. And he was a very vocal critic of his sister's government, and especially his sister's husband who went on Ossets who went on to become president of bags on after my aunt's death. And he was coming home. My father that night from a public meeting on the outskirts of Karachi, and when he reached the road of our house, which is a road. I mean and credit, you know, a well populated part of the city. We live near a lot of embassies, including the British high commission and the street had been shots all the streetlights had been closed. There is no lights on the streets and about one hundred policemen had been placed in sniper positions in trees, all the guards of nearby residences had been told to go inside their homes. So it was a coordinated assassination. It was not something that was done spontaneously. It had been planned very carefully and very senior police off. Officers were on the road that night, and my father and six men were killed. They were shot several times including point blank, and then they were left to bleed on the streets for about an hour before they were moved all of them will move non toss. But -als there's only really one hospital in Karachi that can handle gunshot wounds. None of them were taken there. There would just take into different clinics and dispensaries and places like that. And I was inside the house while all this was happening. So we could hear the gunfire in the shooting. But with your brother with my anger brother, my younger brother, and I my brother was six years old. I was fourteen when the shooting started because we you know, we were Karachi kids we knew what to do in the event of gunfire. We knew to get away from windows when you to go to sort of corridors I did that I took my brother into a corridor unplugged the doors and kept him there until the shooting stopped. But we didn't know at that time that it was our father who was outside. Not just being killed with being left to bleed today. And you could your and I did I called the prime minister's house because after the shooting stopped we want allowed to leave our house. So when we try we were told that there had been a robbery the police said, and we had to stay inside. But it started to be very clear that something was wrong. When my father wasn't coming home. You know, this was in the days before cell phones. So we couldn't text him or call him. We said it's get anxious. And so I called my aunt was not put through to my aunt. It was her husband who wanted the call and said to me, don't, you know, your father's been charged. That's how we found out. And he, of course is in government. He's yes. Well, he was not now he became prime minister, but will the policemen who are involved in. My father's killing. They all hold very senior positions in the police. They hold federal positions in some case. They've been promoted many times in the. Will now it's twenty three years since my father's murder. So in terms of Justice, one cont really say that any form of DASA's has been carried out in the intervening years where did you go from the while I was still in school? I was in ninth grade. And so I we remained in Karachi and went to school and tried to live normally as normally as one cone. But it was always it was always there. I mean, anytime I left my house or came back to my house. I cross the road when my father lost his life. So the memory never really goes away. And not only that you know, the people involved in his killing were very present two. So they never went away. They're always there. And then I you know, I went to university. But first you be actual I yes, I did. That's right. Just fifteen years old. I was fifteen I had started writing poetry as a school project. My father was very encouraging about a who's really the reason I became a writer, and I had shown him some of these poems. And you know, he had sought with me, and and sent them out to publishers and helped me write the letter, and and then after his death. I publish them with Oxford University press in Pakistan in his memory one year one year after his murder. So yes, that's right. I published that book, and then I had I guess you would call it a normal life. I went to university you were Columbia on its soa sign it. So as yes it my master's here in London at so as and then he went back home to by San and I had another small little book come out after the earthquake in two thousand and five. I went to visit the areas, and I'd collected survivor accounts. Mainly written by children on that was published and all the proceeds were given back to a foundation called the foundation, which is one of the largest in by his San back to child survivors. And then I started writing a newspaper column for Pakistani paper on then that's I suppose the beginning of will the rest of this and a life is jogging, journalists reassess. Yes. So how does I was I was twenty four one. I started writing that column and from there, I wrote songs of blood and sword, and and that kind of pushed me further into books on away from from journalism. So songs of gluttony sold is is the is the memoir that we've been talking about. But then came the shadow of the crescent moon, and this is a book set in really very different circumstances from urine life. It's five men. They're in a completely different area. And all of them have terrible. To make Thomas a little about that book while the shot of the cresent moon takes pace over a single morning on. It's the story of this family and the three sons of the family who are all going for Friday prayers, but cannot pray at the same mosque because it's too dangerous. So in case the mosque is attacked. They will go to different mosques on. It's the story of the of the brothers and the families around them, and it sets in the tribal regions, very close by sense border with Arnesen MRs story really of a country on fire, and how it is that young people Neri people, including two women survive the turbulence of their country while trying to live while trying to resist it multi and have normal lives, unruly. That's pretty much the situation the countries in. No, it was the story of bags and for a very long time. And I'm hesitant to sound too hopeful I think in many ways, yes, it still the story of by Kazan. But I think something quite extraordinary. Has happened over the last few years. I think by his son's appetites by his ends people have had to endure so much violence so much uncertainty so much instability that they really push back against it unto. It's been quite nice to see over the past few years. A lot of people resisting them whether it's through arts and culture or protests, but we're for young population. You know, I always mention it because it to me it's boggling but seventy percent of the country's onto thirty. And so you see that nine over International Women's Day. There were a lot of protests young women taking back the roads over the country. And I am hopeful. I mean, I guess I'm always I'm never hopeful about the state or the way in which government is conducting itself, but I'm always an increasingly so hopeful about the way in which by people are choosing to live their lives, and how that using to sort of push back. All that in two thousand fifteen year next book came up, and that was democracy. Oh that was a short story. Yes. Gone. I forgot about that. That was a short story I did really for penguin. India? It was part of their kind of turn towards e books. So I did a short story called democracy, which is basically about pervades Musharraf coup but told and fictional form with corporate of wits too. I hope so I mean, I think that's partly how you survive countries like ours. You have to have a sense of humor about things. So yes, it's the story of a general on a plane that's been stopped from landing and then little other stories around the story of a news reader who's go to go on on air until the story of a coup. So yeah that came out into that in fifteen and quite closely based on on the coupe memories are so short. I'm not sure people notice it or you'd have to be a certain age to remember the visuals of that coup, which I was an interestingly, my high school swim team was on that plane with General Musharraf which had been denied permission to land and was circling over Karachi airspace with seven minutes of fuel left before his coup was successful. So I guess we will feel personally tied up the runaways, which is your latest book, which is I think Mike -nificant piece of work, and it's clear that many many people. Agree with me. It's been beautifully reviewed. It has some contested bluffs from some very important people. And again, it's a completely different book. It's really unlike anything you've written before, and it really examines suppose, the Muslim identity young Muslim identity just gives the the premise of the book while the runaways is about not just radicalism. But I think what the world doesn't want say about the radicalized. So it's about the lives of his people very much like anyone like you mean growing up between Portsmouth and Karachi whose lives drift towards this path and the drift for very different reasons. So that several characters, but they're all young most are Muslim and their lives. I think of alien Asian isolation and a lot of millennial confusion. And so it's a novel about pain Vivian how that leads to. Things like radicalism today. I think dislocated in exile is really really important in this unin deed in in the life of anybody who feels that way. This one wonderful line. You you you right now, this is about one of the character's sunny, and his father has left luck now and gone off to live in Portsmouth of places, you write the plane is not strong enough to transport the burden of his expectation across the black waters of exile. That's just such a stunning line. And it just sums up so much of what that feels like. I mean, you go on then to talk about the smell the scent of loneliness, and I think anybody who's ever left their home country. Can completely understand what you mean by that will, you know for south, Asians, especially the idea of exile is so painful, you know, we do call it black waters because you know, at least in the Hindu tradition, which seeps into a lot of Muslim culture to coming from. India does. The idea that you knew you are polluted by leaving your country that your spirit is defiled by exiling displacement. And so people who do it do it on the expectation that something really great awaits them on the other side, you know, something beautiful has to be on the other side. Otherwise, you've just destroyed yourself really to make that journey. And so that that section that you just read from is from sonny's father who who travels really kind of glamour d- by what he sees, you know, in JAMES BOND films on expects that England is going to welcome him. And it doesn't and what he finds. Instead is the loneliness of not being accepted, not being included. I know so the shock of of poverty which exists in England in a completely different way as it exists in India and the absence of community, which no matter how long he's he stays in England four he never quite builds up in the same way on his son's experience the father. Still believes that there might be a place for him in England in Portsmouth. But the sun's experience, you know, as a second or first generation immigrant is that there isn't any place, and he resents his father for dragging him out of his own country where he might have been someone where he could have been amongst his own to this place. Never really rejects him and never really accept him either and his experience, and I've done that it's kind of plot. Spoiler to say that he is radicalized is really out of that that frustration of being in a place where he feels that. He can't flee exist isn't fully seen. He wants to be seen. And I think you really pick up on the wanna use the word zeitgeist here dislike intensely, but the whole millennials guys of needing to be seen needing to be on Instagram to be on Snapchat to be out that to be someone an eventual to be someone who does something terrible. Yeah. There's this incredible culture. I think that millennials. Whether they're eastern or western or radical not radical ascribe to which is this culture of the self, you know, and what is fascinating about today's radicals is that they don't really require secrecy or discretion because they want the same thing millennial in New York or London ones, which is to go viral. And I think in a culture where you have to be somebody. But you have to be that somebody all the time, and you have to followers, and they have to approve of you. And if the like you and you have to constantly be performing a version of popularity or significance. What does that do to people on the fringes of their society? Who are not wanted and desired who are not like, we're not popular. And who don't have something, you know, fascinating to add to conversation. Twenty four times a day every day. I think it drives you to a place of anger, really and powerlessness and that and that can that can create a really bizarre impulse. In return and so- Sanni does feed into that Unicenter. I think tries to find belonging in many different ways. He tries to find in his school. He conned tries to find in his community Kant. He goes to the mosque and doesn't even find it there because they don't understand what exactly he feels so alienated by on. He sort of groomed by cousin his groomed by cousin who comes into his life at this voluble moment and says why fighting here they don't need us here. But there is a place where you can be powerful when you can be seen and that place needs you now urgently on across this for him unin deed for the other the other characters in the book who are drawn over to the caliphate religion, really has nothing to do it. It really doesn't. You know? I think this is maybe what is not clear in the west. But for those of us who live outside has always been pretty clear that the people joining these these. Fundamentalist movements are drawn to it. Not because it feeds into a religion that they ascribe to. But because he's a cults of power and violence and like a ferocious sense of significance. But religion, actually is even according to my five is a is an insulator against radicalism. It's not a feeder to radicalism. And we see it in the news all the time in or the people who go off enjoying these organizations. Don't know the first thing about religion, you know, they're buying the Koran for dummies off Amazon before travelling on the have this kind of diluted Chinese whisper version of something they considered to be a religion, but it's never actually grounded in any religious identity belonging. So how does one address this anti Islam feeling around the world where people uneducated people unthinking people equate the religion with tears way, thinking we're seeing so much of this now after the shooting. A New Zealand. You know, many people are coming forward to say that the media's responsible for a lot of that anti-islam feeling. I think it's it's it's fed by this sort of cabal of right wing politicians. You know newspapers that just want to sell copies, and how do you sell copies of paper? How do you do click bait you terrify people? And so you have to terrify them constantly all the time and the faucets. We do that is to other an entire group of people to reduce them to some some tiny. Terrifying story, and partly why I wanted to write the runaways is to do the opposite of that to say yes, there is filing. There is this problem doesn't come from religion. And in fact, everyone is implicated in that problem, you know, the twenty year long wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are a huge feeder to radical groups. You know, the politics that we see around us, Donald Trump speeches, those a huge feeders. But it's not a slum. That does it. It's not the intrinsic experience of being Muslim. And it's a -fensive. I think it's really wounding too many of us who live in a world that isn't run by, you know, I don't know the sun or Fox News, or you know, we have a much wider experience. And it's sad. Not to see that wide experience reflected in the world around us. So I hope this novel. Does that partly an certainly there many other great writers from bison, India, Iran, the Middle East publishing, and I think we have to read more of them. Absolutely. We are going to read more of you though, because you're working on something new on popular culture. Yes. So the book that I'm working on now is not going to be a novel. It's book of nonfiction repporters on the new global pop culture's coming out on the nut coming up from the Anglo Saxon world that coming from Asia you and I have. A lot about Cape up in planning a trip to go up to career. Oh, we should as we absolutely should. Because I just for the record think we should stay that. We're obviously academically anthropologically interested in k pop while unfortunately being interested in the music. We're going to be blasting the cable craze. Before we go. I have to ask you oversee the serious question, the one you get I'm sure asked all of the time will be the next two in Pakistani parliament, you know, I always have said that politics is something I'm fascinated by always have been. But I had this other love which is books on the written word, and so long as I'm able to talk about the politics. I wish to talk about to my writing, and I'm pretty happy doing that hit the Cape. Hope. That's thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks to say. Book the runaways published by by king the pig interview was produced by Julian go fund research by ROY Goodrich. Christine Evans, and by Kennedy, scarlet and Cusi. Gilpin to Tina go train. Like listening.

Pakistan Syria Karachi Benazir Bhutto Pakistan San Kabul murder India prime minister London Rebecca sonny Afghanistan president CIA Damascus England Georgina Godwin Senator Afganistan
Leaders: Benazir Bhutto

Encyclopedia Womannica

07:45 min | 11 months ago

Leaders: Benazir Bhutto

"The father used to say that the people of Bacchus thon on my political s there my sons and daughters. Hello from Wonder Media Network. I'm Jenny Kaplan and this is encyclopedia will Manteca. Today's leader was a groundbreaking politician who served as prime the minister of Pakistan twice making her the first woman in modern history to lead the Muslim nation though somewhat controversial due to charges of both corruption and political recall naievety. She was a champion for democracy and a force for liberalization in greater personal freedoms in her country. Let's talk about Benazir. Bhutto Benazir was born on June twenty first nineteen fifty three in Karachi Pakistan to a wealthy aristocratic family with strong a political ties. Benazir's father Zulfikar Ali Bhutto founded the Pakistan Peoples Party otherwise known as the P P P A popular Socialist Party that lead Pakistan in the nineteen seventies sometimes has to appear to be optimistic nevertheless feed that that is you for the future but this is dwindling at the same time I defected. That's lifetime and as your first and primary language bridge was English though. She did speak Urdu on occasion. From a young age she showed great promise and received a Western style. Education prestigious convent schools in Pakistan Khuzistan. In one thousand nine hundred. Seventy one while Benazir was attending Harvard. University her father was elected leader of Pakistan on a socialist platform. Then is your graduated with a bachelor's degree from Harvard in nineteen seventy three and then moved across the Atlantic to the University of Oxford where she studied philosophy political Kossi. It's making in nineteen seventy seven soon. After she finished Oxford and return to Pakistan Benazir's father was ousted in a military Kuu. I'm a Hamad will hawk. Zia became the military dictator of Pakistan and Benazir's father was executed two years later in nineteen seventy jeanine though Benazir and her mother were frequently under house. Arrest from nineteen seventy nine to nineteen eighty-four Benazir took up her father's mantle as head of the PP PP finally having had enough Benazir's political aspirations Zia exiled Benazir on her mother. The to move to London in Nineteen eighty-six Zia ended martial law and Benazir and her mother were allowed to return to Pakistan. Benazir quickly became the foremost member of the political opposition to Zia during her time. In England Benazir admired the work of Margaret Thatcher upon her return she shifted the P P P from a socialist socialist platform to a liberal one. It changed the course of my life. I had no intention of going into politics and had my father lived. Perhaps perhaps I would have chosen a different life for myself. A more stable life. The political shift helped Benazir navigate a political power vacuum created by the mysterious his death of Zia in a plane crash in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight in the ensuing elections. The P P P one the largest block of seats in the National Assembly and Benazir here was sworn in as prime minister on December first nineteen eighty-eight. This made her the first woman leader of a Muslim nation in modern history. As Prime Minister her Benazir tried to enact political and social reforms but was almost completely stifled by the Islamist and conservative parties as such. She wasn't able to effectively combat. The many issues facing Pakistan including pervasive corruption widespread poverty an increase in violent crime in August of nineteen ninety the president of Pakistan Gulan conned accused Benazir and her new government of corruption and nepotism Benazir was dismissed from her position and a new election was called. It's generally accepted that. The following election was rigged by Pakistan's intelligence services to ensure victory for the Islamic Islamic Democratic Alliance or J. I A Conservative Party in the years that followed Benazir served as leader of the opposition in the National Assembly in one thousand nine hundred ninety three the I J I government was also dismissed for corruption in elections held in October of Nineteen ninety-three the P P P again unearned a majority of votes and Benazir was Prime Minister of Pakistan. Once again this time around Venezia's determined to focus on economic privatization and greater the rights for women to areas. She believed were holding Pakistan back three years later. Renewed charges of corruption were brought against Benazir on. Is You're on her government these new accusations along with a series of controversies like the assassination of Benazir brother and a bribery scandal involving her husband. Bend led to her government's dismissal by the president. The P P P took a beating in the nineteen ninety-seven National Assembly elections and Benazir chose to go into self exile. The following year. The new prime minister was continuing to pursue. What were believed to be politically motivated? Corruption charges against her Benazir moved to Dubai and continued to run the P.. From there in two thousand seven rumors began to circulate. That Benazir was returning to Pakistan to run in the two thousand eight elections and she planned to run on a platform of greater military accountability to the civilian government and calls for a stop to the growing Islamist violence. In October tober Benazir officially arrived in Karachi from Dubai. They were great celebrations by her supporters following her return from exile though they were marred by a suicide aside attack on her motorcade that killed many supporters standing nearby. Either plus Sweden me not to come away. Intimidate me into not coming and I'm not going into be intimidated. I've made my decision and I'm returning for better or for us after attending a rally on December twenty seventh. Two thousand seven Benazir's Benazir's motorcade was hit by another suicide attack. This time Benazir herself was killed though. al-Qaeda took responsibility for the attack. It's it's widely suspected that the Pakistani Taliban as well as elements at the intelligence services were also involved in the years following her assassination. Benazir's here's come to be regarded as an icon for women's rights. She's revered for achieving the highest levels of success in a male dominated society tune in tomorrow for the story of another leader this week encyclopedia will Manica is brought to you by hellofresh. One of my personal New Year's resolutions is to cook more. Our thanks to hellofresh. I think it's a resolution I can actually keep. Hellofresh is flexible. You can easily change delivery days and food preferences and you can skip a week. Whenever you need I travel a lot? So that's Buydell for me. hellofresh helps me save meal prep and planning time and most importantly the recipes are delicious. Russia's I love that I get introduced dishes I otherwise might not try hellofresh now starts at just five dollars and sixty six cents per serving go to hellofresh fresh dot COM Slash Encyclopedia Tan. That's hellofresh dot com slash encyclopedia one zero and Use Code Encyclopedia. One zero during hellofresh is New Year's sale for ten free meals including free shipping special. Thanks to Liz. Caplan my favorite sister and Co Creator. Her Talk to you tomorrow.

Bhutto Benazir Pakistan Pakistan Peoples Party Zia Pakistan Khuzistan prime minister Prime Minister Karachi National Assembly Wonder Media Network Socialist Party Jenny Kaplan president Zulfikar Ali Bhutto Margaret Thatcher Harvard Manteca Zia
The Truth About the U.S. War in Afghanistan

First Person

31:27 min | 11 months ago

The Truth About the U.S. War in Afghanistan

"From foreign policy. I'm Sarah Waldman and this is first person this week. The truth about the war in Afghanistan earlier this month. The Washington Post published a trove of official documents that suggests successive. US administrations misled the public about the war Afghanistan. There hasn't been a lot of progress since two thousand one after all girls are back in school in pursuit of our Corrigo. We we are seeing significant. Progress made tremendous progress. The papers were part of an internal review conducted by the US government. They included candid interviews news with both officials and generals who helped prosecute the war one of the first quotes at leaped out at me was from army. Lieutenant General Doug Lute he was the Afghan wars are in the White House for both Bush and Obama and he said we didn't have the foggiest notion of what we were undertaking in Afghanistan. We didn't know what we were doing you. He said twenty four hundred lives lost where they lost in vain. The United States invaded Afghanistan in late. Two thousand one after the attacks of September eleventh understand the genesis if that war I spoke with Hussein Connie who served as Pakistan's ambassador to the United States from two thousand eight to twenty eleven our interviews first aired in February of this here. Okay so we're going to try and get the whole picture of Coniston. What do you think I can I can do it? In thirty seconds. Americans know nothing about Afghanistan. They've been trying to understand it and they haven't succeeded so it's time time for them to come home good less than thirty seconds really good all right so first of all. Thank you for coming in pleasure being Kim. I'm actually curious before we even start. Where did you grow up? Could argue bucket son Tommy and tiny bit about your childhood. Well I mean. I wasn't born to a very rich or prosperous family My family were immigrants from India Pakistan partition of the subcontinent. They were housed in these British military barracks which had been transformed into temporary housing for families a fresh veggies. Today's speaker partition growing up. Oh yeah everybody's book about partition partition. Was it a trauma carried or yeah I mean my father was somebody who never wanted partition and didn't want to move to Buxton. My mother was somebody who believed in Bahrain and Shen and wanted to move to Pakistan so therefore we had a lot of kitchen table Debate about whether the party should have been something. I think that has stayed with me. A- An intellectual level. Even to this day how right now people in Buxton don't want to think of what might have been if there had been no oh partition and people in India always sort of think about the people who created Pakistan. Are the ones responsible for partition from my own childhood childhood debates. I understand that there was a far more complex situation at that time and that they could have been ways in which it could have been avoided. I'm curious how that affects affects how you perceive the relationship between Pakistan Afghanistan on the Taliban and one of the things that's remarkable but the Taliban is that over the last eighteen years the the Taliban is hung on and if anything they've gone stronger. Where does the relationship begins between Pakistan and tally first of all one has to understand what the issue is is on the part of Pakistan that makes interested in Afghanistan Pakistan as people don't always understand is a new country There was no Pakistan in history. The the name Pakistan is an acronym that was contrived by students Muslim students from the subcontinent Cambridge University in the late thirties. So the very idea Pakistan is no more than eight years old and the country is no more than seventy seventy one years old that said because Pakistan choose to be a western ally in the Cold War it got got a lot of benefit from American and European support of Aniston on the other hand because it was a neighbor of the Soviet Union from inception. Older country just didn't get involved in the Cold War and then of course. American awareness of Ghanistan goes only as far back as the Soviet invasion of nineteen. Seventy nine for of guns and what is today. Pakistan comprises a large tract of territory. That was historic Stan. And that was sticking by the British and eighteen ninety-three resentment and more important than resentment is a feeling that The Durand Line the border between Pakistan Afghanistan today divided ethnicity that Bush dunes do I did tribes. Do I cleanse so pucks constantly have always had a relatively open the border The hundreds of points of crossing etcetera. That was taken advantage off by the United States and everybody else who supported them which I then against the Soviets at the Mujahideen were of guns who were essentially people who resented communistic of Ghanistan came to Buxton got recruited trained etc Pakistan. Had A different goal than America did and other countries did in the war against the Soviets everybody else was interested in Soviet. I leaving Afghanistan Bucks was interested in ensuring that whatever succeeded the Soviet occupation was so behold into Pakistan that they would never question the Durand Line and the 1893 loss of territory until Pakistan ended up supporting some of the most hardline fundamentalist groups because they were closer to Pakistan's military and intelligence services then the more secular or pro-soviet all for that matter Less religiously stringent groups. When the Soviets left civil war broke out of Ghanistan Pakistan supported? The hardliners has situation went out of control the US Raju from the region took no interest in the civil war Pakistan decided to support this group called the the Taliban which was basically those hidden who were not willing to listen to their leaders and so punks John was present at the creation of the Taliban. The Taliban have almost always had a very strong relationship with Pakistan security services who has ever supported the Taliban accept them and for on Pakistan's point of view who else has supported Pakistan's would we want Afganistan that have gone should actually consider Pakistan in religious terms as Islamic country rather than as the country that deprives traditional of of their historic homeland part of their historic dot com. Land that is where the differences comes to the Taliban have consistently been supported from Pakistan. The the reason why. The Taliban are strong is because President Bush's comment made a big mistake. The Bush administration defined their job in Afghanistan. Very Natalie. The thought that their job was just getting rid of either before you get to President Bush and we're talking about George W W motion take us. I in nine eleven. How did Pakistan view the attacks on nine eleven but first of all we must understand that? There's a difference between how Pakistan Gaston security services view something and how the people of Pakistan something The people of Pakistan have one hundred views but the specs in security services have only one objective suggest to try and be equal in part to India. That's the historic goal. So the way this nine eleven was that it disrupted their little plan. They had installed the Taliban in par of Ghanistan the Mujahideen groups at all fallen by the wayside. The Taliban were so beholden to Pakistan. That now there was no question that any tune in Afghanistan will ever question the border or even Pakistan's right to dictate to Afghanistan. That was disrupted by nine eleven because now the Americans got involved until another superpower as well not only that not only that it's Pakistan's ambitions have been taught it the the Pakistani ambition of having a Afghanistan that is beholden completely to Pakistan because I've gone assigned his landlocked Pakistan. Is the the only access to the sea. Box is bigger much stronger. Military much more connected with the rest of the world suboxone could dictate to Afghanistan. And now if America's GonNa to come and install a new regime in Afghanistan that regime will not be beholden to Pakistan has has been the case so therefore all the Taliban leaders evacuated and we found out many years later in two thousand eleven And been other than was founded buck Sunday draws on just the Taliban leaders even some other leaders ended up in Pakistan. Where were you on nine eleven? I was in Pakistan. I was ironically. I was about to leave his llamas for Karachi on a flight in which on both sides I had to former Pakistan intelligence chief sitting in coach class on a light throws Lama but to Karachi the flight got cancelled in the nine eleven news game and so I had to stay the night in Islamabad before going on to Karachi. What was the reaction like in the airport that day mode important than the reaction of the general public? I'll tell you what the to no intelligence chiefs and they thought that the Americans had been taught a lesson and so it was interesting Because I was of course one one of those who taught that no this is going to become a lesson for global terrorism America will retaliate and will react bucks. Any public. Opinion has often been very anti-american American. So half of Foxton population was probably anti-american but there are also a lot of people like myself who resented the Jihadi extremists and terrorists. In fact within a couple of days of nine eleven I wrote an op Ed that appeared in the New York Times and which I made this argument that Pakistan me now have to choose friendship with the United States or continued support of the jihadis unfortunately eighteen years. I have the feeling that they really never ever had. Because the Americans allowed them the opportunity to carry on support for the jihadis wiping America's allies. Let's go into that a little further because Pakistan nominally was US ally as a US enters into this conflict but at the same time they have their own interests in Afghanistan. John can you explain that difference so for one thing. Pakistan had a military dictatorship at the time General Pervez Musharraf was in charge and the American sort of the old habit of trying to find you. You know what FDR used to say about Somoza dictatorship in Nicaragua that he's my he's sob but he's my sob. So all of a sudden Americans thought. Okay Sheriff who was by the way at that time. Pariah and the Americans had thought that he he had toppled the civilian elected democratic government. Be He had been responsible for the war with India just a few months before his takeover and see hypoxia. John was not conforming to American expectations in relation to its nuclear program so Pakistan within the sanctions before nine eleven and after nine eleven eleven which turns around and says okay. What you need what you need help you and the Americans if we found out SOB so we should have helped the US in finding several alka figures? A lot of people who ended up in Guantanamo were found by Pakistan's intelligence service but he never dealt a final blow to the Jihadi groups that Pakistan itself had created for influence in Afghanistan that just Afghan Taliban Taliban and then these various jihadi groups that were waging war in a indian-controlled parts of Kashmir and even in India so soon after nine eleven when there was an attack on India's parliament which caused a lot of friction between India and Pakistan and the US decided to tilt in favor of Pakistan to try and tell India not to react act and the Americans would somehow bring stability. The Pakistani game continued well until two thousand and six before the US reacted between Immediately after nine eleven and two thousand six the American policy seemed to be to say the Taliban are not enemy enemy. Al Qaeda and Pakistan is helping us with al Qaeda but by two thousand six al Qaeda number twos threes They won't any left oft for Buxton tourist and handle to the Americans and lots of intelligent started coming of how the Taliban had regrouped in Pakistan and had had now started attacking American troops in honest son so Pakistan was now seen as both being American ally helping America in certain ways but also helping America's enemies the Taliban attack Americans in Afghanistan. How is that support provided to the Taliban don well the Taliban were equipped trained and host in Pakistan? And I think there's plenty of evidence of that I mean right now. The president off the United States is kind of set his goals as drawing from Afghanistan. So he doesn't want to be attention to any of that but if you remember he himself pointed out out that All evidence was that the Taliban would not have been the first became if they did not have a safe haven across the border in Pakistan. Go ahead to two thousand eight e become the ambassador to Washington and at that point what were the most challenging aspects of your job. What was the tension between Pakistan and the US so let me back up a little in two thousand and two? I came to the United States and I came here to Krista the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and then to be a professor of international relations in Boston University and the reason was that I had been a fervent critic off gentleman sheriff and his dictatorship so it became difficult for me to stay in Pakistan. John and I came into a life exactly Musharraf as you know had massive public uprising against him in two thousand seven hundred thousand. Nate new elections were held the civilian government that was elected asked me to become ambassador. Were already based here. I was already in the United States. I literally moved from Boston to Washington. DC to become ambassador rather than moving from Islamabad to Washington at that shifts. Your Life. I mean had you liked being civilian and just teaching young. Actually with hindsight site probably would be better off remaining a civilian because I found myself in the vortex of a lot of controversies after became investor. Of course those who criticise me would argue that you know the fact that I had lived in exile for a few years and made me predisposed to seeing things from an American I who wear as I saw it as being being a little bit more objective I understood what the weaknesses in the Pakistani position. If we were going to build a democracy in Pakistan Pakistan could not be a democracy see and be home to Jihadi terrorist both at the same time. How did they entice you back? Then I mean it seems like you'd have a nice live in Boston but The civilian civilian leadership. I was very close to them in the Bhutto as our our leader and she used to meet regularly. I met regularly. We talked about it so we were the way I saw it. We had an opportunity with Musharraf. Gone the military being prepared to seat bar to the civilians. We could actually build a viable modern democracy in Pakistan and then Benazir Bhutto had been killed as you know and when she was skilled husband husband who became president had kind of an emotional advantage in asking me. You know what I know that you're going to give up a comfortable life as is a professor in the US but this is some very you would be effective and useful environment to become ambassador. And then on the American side. They were a lot of people who said to me. Hey you it would be a good interlocutor to have a life for you. Input killed though. I mean we learn French was extremely traumatic and I felt immense sense of responsibility not Because she had young Children Home v knew very well ask family and because she didn't also have to go back. Doc I mean she could have said. I've been prime minister twice. I'm going to live comfortably abroad. She also went from a sense of duty. Where were you when she was killed built in Boston? And how did you hear about it. Somebody called me actually. I was sleeping early in the morning. Eastern time the phone rang. I answered the phone. Oh my wife had gone to bacchus the Sun She ran for parliament and became a member of parliament. So somebody called me and said done on CNN and done on CNN and the news was so I called my wife who was crying and willink she was at the hospital. been had been brought after that fateful attack one up and so that was partly dri back in that drew me back in and secondly look if it wanted to do something important and something historic then you have to give up some comfort and then in twenty eleven year involved in something that came to be called memo gate. Memo Gate was a label that was invented in Pakistan for something that will not a total fabrication After the whole bin Laden raid a a lot of questions raised about Paxton's conduct as to why Pakistan had bin Laden and the Pakistani military and intelligence services that didn't like my guts anyway because I had already written a book that was published a few years earlier titled Pakistan Between Mosque and military in which I had pointed out that the reason why Pakistan has religious extremists because is the military actually cultivates them for regional political influence so the militant and the intelligence services didn't like me but after the bin Laden raid taught our. We need a scapegoat. We need somebody to blame for why the Americans were able to find bin Laden without us being able to find find him. I didn't want to answer the question. Why was Bin Laden there in the first place there? People doubt that Pakistan didn't know absolutely. I'm one of them so they decided they needed a distraction and in this environment apex American businessmen who lived in Monaco. If I'm not mistaken came up with this allegation that I had asked him to deliver a memo on behalf of the civilian government to Admiral Mullen. Who was the chairman of the Joint Chiefs and add had the MEMEL promised certain concessions to the US if the US helped the Pakistani civilians got the military down to site now the catch all of this is that while there's nothing wrong with the civilian government asserting authority over the military suggesting that a foreign country's military put pressure on the military of your own country. Cut them down to size was rock. I had nothing to with that. Memo the editor of Pakistan's as was quoted in the Guardian is calling it a slow moving coop. Yes exactly so. It was essentially an attempt to weaken can the civilian government by accusing it of seeking American military support against Pakistan's military nine bucks in the military is respected and admired. It's ruled the country for more than half its life. If and even those who don't admire it gone bad mouth even though it's a very politicized institution so it was an attempt to cut civilians downsize. This and eventually I went back to try and answer. The questions of Cassandra went to Pakistan to do that. I was told not to leave the country so I was stuck there for about three months but eventually they had to let me go because they hadn't charged with anything they have no criminal proceedings that participate in. So how long Jonquet just sit there waiting for. Where were you during so during that time I was protected by the civilian leadership of the country? I I was in the president's residents and when he became ill and had to travel abroad. The prime minister kept me in the Prime Minister's House. I was virtually ended attention in the sense that I couldn't leave. Ah premises but I was physically protected against the military to unique situation and the civilian government supported me in my position and my right to actually have all the legal protections that I was entitled to and the military and the intelligence services joining with the hardest line elements of Pakistan's media saying some treason has has been committed. This man you know. Let's just hang him and have a try litter but to actually. I was allowed to leave the country and I haven't done. Since but in January there was an arrest warrant issued Free Cassini coats issue what are known as political arrest warrants pretty frequently and the international community has now figured that out so these are centered around and they tried to get entry turnball turns them down and foreign countries. Turn them down routinely because it's now become such a sad practice it was done against Benazir Bhutto been done against which really every Pakistani political figure of any consequence. Do you live in fear I don't think so I am not easily terrified. So that's one part. The other part is that When has to say what one has to say? I mean what what's going to happen open I don't think that any international court is ever going to on a any of these allegations. These are primarily designed. Do keep the box tiny population from taking some of my writings. And my criticisms cicely lost your country as a result earliest temporarily emperor. Yeah but I'm not the only one I think the people who live there also lost family in Pakistan. I have extended family. That your wife is here. Oh now my wife and children. I want to circle US backed Afghanistan president. Trump's made it clear he wants out of Afghanistan sent will what's the endgame well. I don't think president trump has an endgame. I think he wants out and he wants out and There are people who measure military intervention mentioned by years. And those who do that say. Hey you've been there seventeen years time to come out. My point is that military intervention should always be measured against goose. Bruce what did you go for and to accomplish it or not and if you did not why not. It shouldn't be measured in time in terms of what you ended there. Therefore you went there. Because the United States was attacked on nine eleven of Coniston had become a safe haven for al Qaeda and other Islamist extremists. Jihadi the groups the idea after that was to try and make sure that of Ghanistan image it environment doesn't become a safe haven for global terrorism. They're the US went wrong. Was the Bush administration's mistake of completely trust in General Musharraf in ensuring that the Aja the groups are eliminated on the puck sunny site. So while of Vannes Stan was rebuilding. You ended up having the Taliban reorganized and become a nuisance and sort of CONISTON. Then President Obama made a huge mistake off the so-called surgeon of Ghanistan to fight the Taliban but at the same time announced the data for the vitriol as what that did was it hit the Taliban and Pakistan's supported them game. How Long America will be there the Taliban had a maxim that Milomar who was the founder of the Taliban used to say that the Americans Have Watches v half the time and basically when President Obama announced that there will be a scheduled withdrawal tied to the surge all all they did was told the Taliban to sit in their sort of funeral safe havens envied for the American withdrawal when that withdrawal didn't come the Taliban undecided to increase the heat which has now deserted and president trump. I sing who will stay as long as we need to. But now saying we are in a hurry to withdraw so in every way you look at it basically the US has not really put up the fight that should have been put up to succeed has US lost. I don't think the US has lost. I think the US has allowed the others to be able to proclaim victory by not putting up a fight Nothing has ever been done to deal with the constant back and forth of Taliban and their supplies applies from the Pakistani side of Weinstein's own government has been allowed to go in every which direction the US spent too much money on Afghanistan. We twelve necessary. I'll give you an example When I was invested I learned that there were several studies that were taking taking place here about these standards at which of public schools and I said to somebody in the the US gunman how many do these studies cost? And there's a couple of hundred thousand dollars for somebody doing a study and I said what are these studies about. You're trying trying to figure out whether schools in Ghana Stan should be more like New Jersey. Schools are Maryland schools. Something why don't you understand. You know Ghanistan. Based on before the Soviets game a decent school was a roof. A blackboard some chock a teacher and some books. Why can't we do that so when people here complain that Oh God the US visted and spent too much money in done around to them and say you didn't didn't have to you did that because that's where you make your decisions? It's not the port of this for. You could have done it all at much less cost. And so what has happened now is that. Nobody's thinking about the ordinal reason for going into Afghanistan. What if he come out? The government in Afghanistan is unable to fight the Taliban the Taliban regained control of most. If not all of his son and end the various global jihadi terrorist groups three congregate not because of any other reason but because it logically they and the the Taliban have much more in common and will be welcomed much more easily than they would be in a country where the government really runs and extremists. He misses from another country are really not allowed to set up right now. The US has created a framework agreement with the Taliban but Afghan government has said. It won't participate participate. But I what is the framework agreement. The framework agreement is essentially That the US would draw injured done for a week. Taleban Bon promise that they will not support international jihadi terrorist groups but the Taliban themselves that an international terrorist group. They've attacked Americans have attacked attack. The American embassy more than once attacked Germans French British Canadians. Australians I can't understand how dare I promise that they will not allow or Isis to come back into Havana. Stan and be considered worth the paper. It's written aunts. I really really don't see. There's a framework agreement. All I see is a promise for those who just really want out so that they can use it as a fig-leaf Gli forgetting out. What is the legacy of the? US's seventeen eighteen years in Afghanistan. Oh there's a lot of positive legacy I mean a lot more would've gone. Young women are going to school. The Taliban didn't allow that the Taliban played football with human heads. If you remember. The Taliban were one of the most atrocious atrocious regimes in human history and all of that is gone and now the Taliban are themselves saying all of that was wrong so that is definitely a positive. The legacy that Americans can be proud of a government has been created in Afghanistan that with all its weaknesses and flaws and by the government doesn't have flaws at the same time there was always a concern that the US cannot afford to antagonize Buxton. Buxton is a nuclear armed country. Buxton has been an American ally for several several decades. It would complicate the situation if Pakistan was put under too much pressure so in a way basically the failure of the US in relation relation to Afghanistan has not been failure of its actions in Afghanistan but off its inaction in relation to a Taliban based in Pakistan Kazakhstan. I'm curious if there's anything else that you went off our listeners that I haven't asked you will. I would just say that your listeners need to think about what is common cullman. Between Vietnam Iraq Afghanistan countries America went in guns blazing and kind of came out route without a visible success. And I would say that. The real reason is a failure to understand the regional dynamics except politics and an inadequate understanding of the culture of the politics of the country. You're going when you intervene in another country entry You should know who Elisa You should have a minimalist agenda of what you're going to change to not going to change and you should have a time line in your own mind. In each of these cases those requirements were not fulfilled People that you supported like Hamid Karzai ended up running on you in being critical of you and yet you don't feel that you have somebody in Afghanistan and that you can trust as your ally so those are the errors that I think are the big lesson of Afghanistan and even now I would say that instead of announcing scheduled withdrawal America should be clear of what it wants in Afghanistan. Not when it wants it enough Afganistan thank you Mr Hussein. Connie is a former Pakistani ambassador to the United Nited States. We should mention. He was one of foreign policy. Top Global Thinkers back in twenty thirteen first person is produced by Daffron and edited by Rob. Sachs I'm Welton Welton and I'm your host.

Pakistan Taliban Afghanistan United States Afghanistan Taliban Taliban America Ghanistan Pakistan Gaston president India General Musharraf Pakistan Between Mosque Vannes Stan President Bush John Coniston Benazir Bhutto
Thursday 13 June

Monocle 24: The Globalist

58:41 min | 1 year ago

Thursday 13 June

"You're listening to the globalist. I protest on the thirteenth of June two thousand nineteen on monocle four the globalist in association with UBS. Hello. This is the globalist coming to live from the Dory health in London. I'm Georgina Godwin coming up violence in Hong Kong. They have nothing to put it. They really have Anita tools to protect people staying and people are trying to, to stay peaceful. However, the policies on how means how violent they can be people re-state, peaceful, now, reorganize extrordinary, scenes of mass protests, as police move in with rubber bullets and teargas. We'll have live coverage from our Hong Kong bureau shortly also a head and Pakistan's history since then has been such a choppy one. Even in periods where we had democratic rule in Pakistan. I can't really say it's been very democratic holding elections is the most basic step of democracy. But it certainly not the only one that's I am Bhutto's Pakistan arrests. That's former president, as, if Alleanza Dari is part of a crackdown on corruption will also consider the regional, significance of Botswana's decision to. Decriminalize homosex-. Actually. Once back. We'll find out why Warner Brothers is reviving its classic looney tunes animation house. Well, that on the latest menswear news from Petit Lumo to that's ahead on the globalist life from London. Yeah. Rubber bullets and violence. This is not how the protests in Hong Kong began on Sunday when an estimated one million people marched in solidarity against the introduction of a planned extradition Bill, but things took a sudden duck turn yesterday when police followed through on threats to use force against the protesters, many of whom were students armed with little more than an umbrella. James chambers is Monaco's Hong Kong bureau, chief and joins me on the line. Now, James, I understand that you're on the move through the streets at Hong Kong at the moment. Can you tell us what's the latest all morning? It really felt like a com object stole all the protesters going away in the middle of the night, and returned home. But actually, when Hong Kong actually going to work, we were we were suffering a real storm. There was a an amber rainstorm, which caused more chaos and canceled flights and all kinds of stuff. But that that. The weather has now and the, the kind of the sons would said the temperatures starting to heat up and people of starting to come back to the area in admiralty around the government headquarters, the police in riot gear or or normal, where there, and it's this kind of this standoff is, is ratcheting up again eleven eleven AM this morning. They announced that they were going to cancel today's debates on the bills, so that's nothing's going to happen today. And the ever suspects that these, the protest protest numbers will increase towards the end of the day when people finish work because no one has any idea what's going to happen tomorrow. Rumors flying around, but they lawmakers we're going to be sneaking into the parliament's, sleep overnight and pats posits tomorrow. I don't see that was not well, they do they normally do follow procedure. But, you know, with all kinds of rumors everyone's a bit nervous. No one knows what's going to happen. So we'll have to wait and see. In terms of, of what closed and what's open today in Hong Kong. I mean, I understand that big businesses and education. Establishments are also supporting this movement. Go quite quite wide support from across the business community. Lows businesses shut down yesterday to let that stop take park. And it's you know, went from big business. A very small kind of copy shops, I was speaking to a young protest of this morning. She, she was a student just graduated just. But if I jog, you know, her boss, let her go and in very juice. Telling me she, he's very supportive of taking pots that was all yesterday. Now today, you know, Hong Kong is very much backing up and running it. It's remarkable how yesterday, you know, his there seems absolute chaos with tear-gas everywhere you could smell the kind of pepper in the academic pepper spray, and there was just there Brie and rubbish everywhere. But everything's back up and running. Dave pump from the police have also admiralty MTR station to be closed as the kind of main drop plug for people who want to pour into this area, but there was any kind of classic Hong Kong fashion of the protesters return to the site today to stop picking up trash and, and cleaning up the mess that they kind of left behind yesterday, and they're also picking up a lot of the supplies that they've left behind, whether that like the plastic hats, that they were using all the goggles or the food, or the water very much kind of feeling that they don't want to these things to go to waste because they'll know come in handy in the days become James, you Kelly cook Carina, too was at the scene of one of the protests. Let's listen to what some of the demonstrators had to say. We've been here since this morning. We will also here on Sunday for the bigger. It was much more peaceful on Sunday. There were many families around today, there's mainly and there's more aggression Israel today on the protests. Many young people come out the number of people is also bigger than PVS Wadey bigger than Sunday's protests, but bak- because the area is so. Police is really using it out of gas to push the strike out. Earlier this morning, things were, generally very peaceful, people were very engaged in hopeful, what has changed people who are wishing leg by three pm for the Bill to drop the government didn't listen to the people. And so everyone's now playing a more aggressively, they're more aggressively like trying to get their views forward. They have nothing to put it. They really have a tools to protect people are staying and people are trying to, to stay peaceful. However, the policies on how many how violent they can be people reached a peaceful and reorganized Ameri surprised how forgotten it, they can deal with the bags everything to protect each other initially the police for using pepper spray against the people. How did that unfold bit unfair with the people, especially when everyone is just like bare handed over here and only holding rela for their own defense? So pepper spraying them or tear guessing a bit unfair on the people. That's monaco's. Carina Tsui speaking to some of the protesters in Hong Kong today's edition of the monocle minute also reports on the tense situation in the city, state and questions. The full reaction from authorities. Hong Kong experienced, one of its darkest days yesterday as black clad protestors clashed with heavily-armed police on all streets surrounding the government headquarters and admiralty forties, with quick to labor with latest or physician. The controversial extradition Bill, calling it a riot. However, to those of us observing the standard. It always looked like the right place on the front foot firing rubber bullets at groups of youngsters who on bluntly with umbrellas. Teague rounds landed in a crowd, blocking a major thoroughfare many students flooded into the subway to take cover creating a scene reminiscent of a chemical weapons attack water food, and asthma and haters, who passed around among side woefully inadequate surgical face mosques back at street level officers and protective goggles and gas masks, the paid determined to stop this latest demonstration, turning it into another prolonged occupation. Similar to twenty four teams umbrella movement. A brief ceasefire during the last hour of daylight allowed Amblin staff to stretch the injured from the boulevard and bustle veered, then just before seven pm. The next charge came police banged their shields and fired morte gas, as a luxury shopping, little suddenly became a temporary safe. Haven, plenty of home Palmer's will awoken up this morning with sore eyes reddened by yesterday's protests and sadness for the city's uncertain future. Protesters succeeded in delaying the passage of the Bill by at least a day. There's no sense of victory meal today, only the threat of more violence. And that's one of the stories from today's edition of the monocle minute. Sign up to our daily Email bulletin at our website, and we'll have more coverage of the unfolding situation in Hong Kong throughout the day here on monocle twenty four now with the time just coming up to ten minutes past the hour. A look at what else we keeping an eye on today. Donald Trump says he would accept information on a political opponent, if it were offered by a foreign power, the US president made the comment during an interview with America's ABC news, dismissing suggestions, that such action might be election meddling. Japan's Prime Minister says unintended confrontation in the Middle East is a real risk, Shinzo Abe's. Currently on a two day. Visit to run the first by a Japanese leader since Iran's Islamic revolution in nineteen seventy nine and the president of Mexico says he'll use funds from the sale of his official plane to help curb illegal migration. The announcement comes off to Mexico reached an agreement with the United States to avoid tariffs in exchange for Mexico's deputy off its efforts to clamp down on the number of migrants traveling from Central America. This is the globalist statute. Daria, former president of Pakistan has been arrested in a corruption case. This is not the first time the Dari has been to prison. He was married to prime minister Benazir Bhutto. They were big tensions between Benazir and her brother Murtaza, both children of former Pakistani prime minister, and founder of the puck Istana People's Party, the p p p matassa was shot dead. And the Dari was indicted for the murder, but he was eventually acquitted going on to become president of the assassination of his wife Benazir here. Matas daughter, the author Fatima Bhutto tells us what happened twenty three years ago. My father was a member of parliament, and he was a very vocal critic of this government. And especially his sister's husband who went on to become president of bags after my aunt's death, and he was coming home. My father that night from a public meeting on the outskirts of Karachi, and when he reached the road of our house, which is a road. I mean in quite a well populated. Part of the city we live near a lot of embassies including the British high commission and the street had been shots, although streetlights had been closed. There is no lights on the streets. And about one hundred policemen had been placed in sniper positions in trees, oh, the guards of nearby residences had been told to go inside their homes. So it was a coordinated assassination. It was not. Something that was done spontaneously. It had been planned very carefully. And very senior police officers who were on the road that night and my father and six other men were killed. They were shot several times including point blank, and then they were left to bleed on the streets for about an hour before they were moved. All of them were move non toss. Pedals. There's only really one hospital in Karachi that can handle gunshot wounds. None of them were taken there. There were just take into different clinics and dispensaries and places like that. And I was inside the house while all this was happening, so we could hear the gunfire and the shooting. But we'll with your brother with my younger brother, my younger brother and I my brother was six years old. I was fourteen when the shooting started because we, you know, we were Karachi kids, we knew what to do in the event of gunfire. We need to get away from windows, when you go to sort of corridors so I did that I took my brother into a corridor unplugged, the doors and. Kept him there until the shooting stopped. But we didn't know at that time that it was our father, who was outside not just being killed, but being left to bleed today and you called your aunt. I did. I called the prime minister's house because after the shooting stopped we weren't allowed to leave our house. So when we try we were told that there had been a robbery, the police said, and we had to stay inside. But it started to be very clear that something was wrong when my father wasn't coming home, you know, this was in the days before cell phones, so we couldn't text him or call him. We started to get anxious. And so I called my aunt was not put through to my aunt. It was her husband. Who answered the call and said to me, don't you know, your father's been charged? That's how we found out. And he, of course, is in government, he's fierce. Well, he was not now he became prime minister. But all the policemen who are involved in my father's, killing they all hold very senior positions in the police. They hold federal positions in some case. They've been promoted many times in the. Well, no, it's twenty three years since my father's murder. So in terms of Justice, one Khan, really say that any form of Justice has been carried out in the intervening years. That was, I am a Bush speaking to me on the big interview before the arrest of the Dari about the events, Twenty-three years ago. Well, listening to that with me is the journalist Samir chuckle who's on the line Samir. It's very clear that the Dari has an extremely murky past and Justice is about to catch up with him. What do these current charges? Relate to current charges are about twenty nine million dollars allegedly laundered three fictitious Bank accounts in the cage, implicates, Zardari, and his sister in Farrell Topor and also some of his associates, some of whom will say, been arrested in the last few months. Who says advocates pending against both very and his sister, also relating to, to financial malpractice, and corruption, basically one of the tunnel get used in the in the box tiny anti corruption system is unexplained wealth. So lost the cases right to that. And do you think that this is politically motivated, given that we know that he has a tempestuous history with Imran Khan? Well, I think that no. Interestingly, even the people who are arguing that it's politically motivated, not seriously, arguing that he's not corrupt. I mean this is a really well known. He's, he's incredibly well known to be corrupt ago. He's actually spent more time in prison than any other than any other prime minister, like sonic, which is a amongst the crowded failed you spend around eleven years, and on different corruption charges in prison before he became before he became president. And of course, even the climate, it was politically motivated. And so I think the interesting thing is I guess that by things can kind of be true. I mean this is a this is a guy who was known as mister ten percent for the kickbacks allegedly took jarring Benazir's permeate to premierships, unless there during his own presidency became has missed one hundred percent and on the same basis that he's an incredibly unpopular figures, very kind of flagrant enrich. Ching of the family during time in power and yet on the other hand, I think these cases, very often on politically motivated to a certain extent. I mean, the investigation was initiated under Montcalm predecessor Nausori, your that there's a long standing enmity between those two parties in the Cherie feminine. I family an the, the other thing is that would Iran con- you now have both of the last two leaders in prison. Wall Street has actually been sentenced on corruption charges. The has now been arrested. So whether those cases have some validity I think they probably do the optics of that on great. Do you think that this shows that Imran Khan's crackdown on corruption is successful or is it a Dhaka message about military control because the question, always comes up, how much con is his own man, or how much he's being dictated to by the military what the arrests show us. Absolutely. I mean, I think that as he as you point out, run, con was elected on a very strong anti-europe Shen platform. That's been his kind of issue of Cetinje since the twenty thirteen election on before he's promised in one of his eye-catching promises was that he would reach out corruption in one hundred days that obviously hasn't happened and part of his being elected this time in twenty eighteen was kind of making alliances with some of these politicians recall, delectable invest, call MS. For people who are very much part of the political system of patronage and corruption that he claimed he wanted to reach out so it certainly selective where the unsee corruption is falling. We'll say how they associate Larry's actually, right? Permanent property developer have have some cases against him effectively dropped a few months ago, despite widespread evidence of massive massive scale, illegal under preparation. So it certainly selective although you know, he, he was elected, the ninety corruption ones is not surprising to an extent. It is being pursued I think the other thing is, you said is about military control. And I mentioned under the optics with how they know last two prime ministers in prison, an art great. And I think the fact that this also comes against the backdrop of the military really cemented that control always had control in oral all areas of public life. But it's really got to a new level. From around the time before Iran. Con was elected an unseen. He's on a very, very small majority. He's bad in his his belly got a workable majority in parliament. And, and this is happening against the backdrop of huge scale crackdowns on civil society and freedom of speech. You've got journalists being intimidated, arrested by state agencies on a scale that we've really not seen in the last couple of decades and peaceful civil society protesters, and so on being very, very harshly repressed an so. The gates not job. It's hard to see it as on uncomplicated new good thing, although I said anything mess for releasing Mudan about the specific allegations. Of course, they've not been tried in court yet, but as certainly some validity in the claim that both refunds vary have been corrupted. I think Samir, thank you very much indeed. That Samir shackle up next. We'll find out about the latest in men's fashion at Petit OMO. You're listening to the globalist. Has over nine hundred investment analysts from over one hundred different over nine hundred of the shop is mines, and freshest, thinkers in the world of finance today. No one is more. The one. Contact us at UBS dot com. This is global list at seven twenty here in London. That's eight twenty in Florence despite Paris's status is a fashion capital. The city lacks. Good independent multibrand stores. One notable standout his pitch 'em. Some perr a menswear out posting among that sells Bruns including junior Watanabe Makita and Swedish gems. Legacy Schneider and sport. It's run by Pierre on remember to a former designer at some of the world's biggest fashion houses who decided to turn his eye to retail Monaco's Jamie, Watters caught up with Mattew on a scorching day in Florence during the menswear trade show. Petit lumo. To find out more about running shop on the left Bank. I started my career at your working men's to do, and then started designing my own line of menswear after that, then I went to work for defend even how. Houses, they could then here, and then, and then Swiss army, and if the Kevin Kline, and then now I'm merchants. And so I manage different brands within may concept store in Paris. Why did you decide to make the jump from designed to Rato that whisker used to see the other side of the business? But so I want to have like a different from a different angle, and the opportunity to partner with someone had the store, and so I just came out like very naturally. Would you design differently now knowing what you do about Rato? You have different thinking, I'm actually still designing. I'm designing the private label of the store like so I'm I'm still a designer and I see things differently for sure. Because you know the direct contact with the clients and the customer, so it's very helpful envision the collection and like the need with the exact need for the store. I'm guessing it can kind of go both ways because in some ways, it's not helpful to your creativity when you know all the statistics about. What sells you know, can kind of. Exactly that it nights. It's difficult. Because you're right, you want to be creative. But at the same time, you know, you know, you need and sometimes reside, does doesn't go exactly in the direction you would like to to go. So it's a, it's a balance like find the right balance was like, what your because your mind spirit than, like, what's my sensitive is also is important, because the clients or was is looking for something new and he wants to be surprised by something. And so the numbers that I have when I do my jet when I do the buying season stuff. It's like the numbers. Don't are not hundred percent rights. I'm not going to buy exactly well, I need like on the paper otherwise it would be it would be wrong. I think for the for the store and what kind of brands and products do you sell? What's the kind of aesthetic of the store? And trying to. Men's concept stores. There's a different vary t of things clothing. Sneakers boots fragrance accessories brooming, and I'm trying to make it fashion without being fashioned maker stammers like from fifteen years old, to seventy years old. And I wanted to be like a good quality clothing, like a sense of craftsmanship. It's very important for me. That piece is a can of timeless like and somebody's going to keep it for a long time. It's contradiction with the designer store, but this is what I try to do. So for me, it's very important in my work toward for man's like something that's very of high-quality. I find this like, in the junior women could action for me, one of my favorite brand in the store, and I find it very important in this line that sense of like know-how. Quality timeless, if even though every season is a new story, you want to keep, like each piece for a long time, you want to call them, you want to maybe put them on the side for season, and then take them back. You know what other brands you kind of excited about an who've you Baynes. Excited to say pity industry. There's a legacy there is. Architects, Valence bad words. So as the main brand, and at PTA I found very interesting new Japanese accessory designer for bags or so there's a new correction from Woolwich, but made in Japan and it's very interesting to good balance between contemporary spouse, where I was like a sense of outdoor like that. What's your take on as entrepreneur running Rato store empowers at the moment is it we obviously in capital cities. We hear a lot about rents going up for Ray talent. It's tough going. How are you finding how you finding the climate in Paris? I don't know for the others before the business has been very good species, pasture plus thirty percent. So we have new new project to make it figure. So it's it's been very exciting. I think Perry says, too good to good. Moment for payers, the Brexit of the things that for us on the left Bank in Paris. It's exciting. Most of your customers locals prisons bloke was from that immediate area or they get a lot of tourists. What's your clientele lie? We have lots of tourists Monday pays would say, to good, fifty percents chunk of the business Theresa Americans Asians, and then some Persian to work lose to Martius or Persian. They come they usually go on the left Bank to two matches. So they pass by this story. So you were saying that there's a Chateau mom on is about to open in front of your stories, came away with that said Velez, both those like three buildings around the corner, and they're like, I don't know if he's going to be coach at the memo Chateau Santerre's thing with it's going to be major. Or good news your store and just, just finally, you're about to leave the Florence sunshine. What's your shedule like you're not doing the land, you're going straight back to power? And then during the power menswear season I do Peres. There is a different different trade shows in, in Paris, like very interesting, like the man and welcome addition, it's a real like it's, it's very nice. There is also like groups of Japanese, they're showing in different showrooms in Amarah. That's the new things like best seasons. I. Ry enjoy discovering new things there. And then there's the runway shows in August. There is a river where and see if in Copenhagen, so sometimes I go there, too, and that was peer honoring Mattis. Speaking to Monica, Jamie waters pity OMO in Florence. Let's continue now with today's newspapers. Joining me in the studio is tells Hecker from control risks. Good morning. Good morning to you tells across all of the front pages is a big shaggy, blond man is threatening to bring it knowingly food and medicine shortages to the UK as far as I can see. Let's right Georgina. It's one of those days when looking at the newspapers, especially at page one, there's very little choice of what to read and Boris Johnson is wall to wall in the morning papers today of particularly on page one of the telegraph big surprise there. I mean I wasn't around for the coronation, but I have a feeling that it'd probably got less coverage out of the telegraph, in Boris Johnson's announcement that he is indeed running to lead the conservative party, and ultimately be selected as prime minister above the fold of the telegraph, the entire page is taken up with a close up picture of. Of Boris Johnson. So be careful those of you who have yet to have your breakfast. The headline is a quote that says now is the time to remember our duty to the people in Georgina. You're absolutely right. To point out that a conversation is creeping back into British dialogue about stockpiling about food shortages about medicine shortages because it appears that we've got until October thirty first, we've got however many months, that is of playing chicken between the next prime minister and Brussels and between the next prime minister and the nation and that is all of this sort of will he or won't he let us crash out of the European Union without a deal, which is what would lead to backlogs at the border and shortages of critical goods up and down the spine of the nation. So we've got discussion about no deal. We've got a discussion about an arcane legislative move called proroguing parliament, which means basically dissolving the legislature. And in its absence driving through a no deal Brexit that the parliament, otherwise would try to reject of note yesterday. Georgina, the parliament indeed tried to block a no deal Brexit. A normal manner by taking a vote and it failed. So here we are waiting for this carnation. Of course. Johnson, it is. He is by far the most likely person to be selected leader of the conservative party and become next prime minister, but we st- that is the only thing that is certain in politics over the next few weeks. Do you think so could that be upset? I mean, we have tearing me hunt running close second, and then there is a run outside, of course like Louis Stewart, that's right. You've got Rory Stewart raising rising fairly rapidly. Among the ranks of potential prime ministerial candidates. He's come as you suggest out of nowhere with this kind of homespun. Sort of folksy, and very straight talking political and social presence, and nobody ever gave him a chance of being selected as anything. But it looks like he's up there among the top contenders, including such Javid and Jeremy hunt, as you mentioned, it is unlikely that he will make it through all the, the rounds of voting and all the limitations up until the selection of two final candidates. But he's been a surprise outside or Fisher just before we leave the subject as little comment from Robert Hayward note. Hey, what he's an election expert, and Tori peer he's basically questioning these polls. He says the pulse that suggested bars Johnson could leave the party to a majority of hundred forty calls me to say that any MP who believes that the Tory party will win an election based on Paul's using hypothetical questions about the unknown future. Clearly doesn't understand opinion polls, and he goes on to say that, that he's really not. Sure, actually Johnson will win this one either Georgina polling has come in for a lot of stick lately as Asia NRA, and as a profession and considering basically, every voter in the UK is walking into its voting precinct pinching his or her nose. Collectively doesn't suggest that polling is going to be on target now or anytime in the near future now with Brexit as it gets older and older and more bizarre people saying things like he couldn't make it up. But one person actually has a misses a satire on Europe. That's been written by the one German ulcer Swiss German, I think, over a Robert monas- now is published by Merkel's press called capital. And what's interesting about this is that it's on the front page of the New York Times. Right. Hurry for story placement. Hurry for books and book reviews. The international New York Times has put a book review on page one and Manassas book is called the capital and it's. Starts off its first phrase is a question that says who invented mustard. So fantastic opening line to a book. That is getting rave reviews all over Europe. And now has a rave review from the New York Times, I would like to know who invented mustard. I want to shake that person's hand the times tells us that the capital courses through a discussion of food and cigarettes the EU, nationalism, racism, and really suitcases, which you see a lot of in Brussels. Oh, and by the way, is also at the same time a murder mystery within your time says, and this is meant as very very high praise. The reviewer says, if you tasked an excellent writer with turning a tall stack of recent issues of the economist into a novel, you might get the capital and, and that is really high praise indeed a very much looking. Forward to getting this book sometime today and devouring it over the coming weekend. And this magical pig to believe there's a pig picture of big on the cover. I think. Yeah. And it features largely in the narrative, I've told right? Well, speaking of pigs transition, thank you. But God in page on most meet in twenty forty will not be from animals or pigs Indy. That's right. That's right. The Guardian's front-page is telling us that at about twenty twenty one years from now in the future. Most of us will be eating meat that is made in a laboratory, or meet that is grown in vats, or we will have moved to plant substitutes for meat. The guardian tells us via a study from the consultancy AT Kearney that the global meat industry is worth seven hundred and eighty five billion pounds a year. But listen to this statistic, there was a company called beyond meat, which had an IPO on the new York Stock Exchange in may of this year and was initially listed at two hundred forty million dollars and its shares have doubled since may so there's something here about the replacement of meat as a staple of the human diet on this is gaining traction, because we're told of course. That the meat industry is damaging to the environment, the amount of land the amount of water the amount of energy in the amount of environmental gases created by meet out at pasture, and that a more environmentally conscious consumer, particularly younger consumer is going to try to cut more and more meat out of his or her diet, well as the papers pointing out yesterday to being a completely vegan doesn't necessarily mean that it's healthy. There's an awful lot of process non meat stuff out there. And I think we have to be very, very careful of that, too. You're absolutely right. I think perhaps what our parents told us many, many years ago when we were growing up in that is a little bit of everything. In moderation is good for you may be the way to go in the future in that swinging from extremes of, you know, eating hamburgers every day or eating nothing. But soya beans, every day may not be the way forward tells in the spirit of a little bit of motivation, will have to bring it to the end that tiles. Heck I thank you very much indeed. Still to come on the program. Season. It's most definitely looney tunes season as wound brother, revive's. It's classic animation studio. More on that a little later. This is the globalist. UBS global financial services firm with over one hundred fifty years of heritage built on the unique dedication of people, we bring fresh thinking and perspective to our work, and we know that it takes a marriage of intelligence and haunt to create lasting value for Clinton's. It's about having the right ideas, of course, but it was time about having one of the most accomplish systems and unrivaled network of global experts. That's why EVS we pride ourselves on thinking smarter to make a real difference. Tune in weekly to the bulletin with UBS for all the latest insights on opinions from UBS and experts from around the world. You'll with globalist on monocle twenty four. I'm Georgina Godwin in Botswana in a landmark victory for LGBTQ plus movements. The high court has overturned a law criminalizing consensual same sex relations the court unanimously ruled on Tuesday that the legislation was discriminatory unconstitutional, and against the public interest, cat, KYW, coal kes- is a performance artist musician, writer and LGBTQ, plus activitist from Botswana. She's known for being the first public figure from the country to openly identify as a transgender person, and she's on the line now cut what's the climate in Botswana been like for non heterosexuals up until this ruling morning? Georgina. It's been quite an interesting has forty eight hours because I dearly, we have been doing a lot of media outreach would really trying to, to manage. Any misunderstandings that might come up. About the ruling, but from within the community of non heterosexuals, it's been a lot of people saying they feel as, though, huge weight has been taken off, as shoulders, it breathing a little bit easier because it is very, very surreal. We never really thought we'd know, want to feel to live in a country way. The legal system says you around to ever be called criminals. How did you manage to get to this point where the law was overturned? It's been a number of years of advocacy. So actually for a case for this decision to end up. The wait is, is the result of cumulate the cumulative twenty year long battle with the courts, the gene, different applicants in different cases, who have each either one or not won their cases. But those cases were brought up. And when people do get the. To read the judgement as written by Justice and Michael liberal. They will see how he's taken into stock so many of these cases, and so that it wasn't just about this one applicant, who had brought this case of striking down, once all section one six four AC, once five and one six seven all of which, which criminalized in indecent acts against the order of nature. So those things were it's extends all the way from reading section three seven seven of the Indian penal code through to two thousand and eighteen when the hearing was in March, and, and just recently well nineteen because in November, as one of the other things that was cited in the hearing in the handing none of the judgment was that the Justice quoted the current president of the sitting president of it's messy who had mentioned in his. His address against and during the sixteen days of activism, against violence against women children and gender-based violence, that they are people within the borders of who have been who are insane sex relationships who are also finding themselves victims to institutionalize abuses well as into intimate partner of us, and they must be considered when we talk about, and managing violence within our country. So just by way of the president saying that, and that being quoted during the ruling it was a sign that a lot of research has been done of looking at how both on a has come to the point of being able to discuss LGBTQ plus live you hoods and people as more than just people having six thank you very much indeed. That's cat KYW cul kes- is a wonderful campaign on also a brilliant, poet. Now joining me and listening to that in the. Is busy Elhamy, who is an LGBTQ plus rights campaign from Nigeria, who was forced to flee his home of coming up much for coming in busy? This is very good news for Botswana, but sadly, many countries in Africa lag behind, I think out of fifty four African countries at least thirty one have acted Lewis making, it illegal to have gay sex, and most recently, this was highlighted and Kenya. Yeah. Well, you know, the butts wanna case was spin quite exciting for a lot of us. But also, we were not quite surprised about what happened in, like, like I said, the, the former president of, what's wanna of made a very emphatic statement, about the protection of LGBT people though, people accused him of not doing anything while he was in government, and that's in comma, yes, the foam on Mendon new on came amid the statement, they gain about OJT. So we kind of we saw it coming in a way that is going to shift, and don't forget. He's not far from South Africa in that area. So there's that influence that is coming from South Africa that region. And so when it happened, it was exciting. The other hand was very disappointing because after such Africa on the continent of Africa Kenya has the most liberal constition on the continent. And so that gave a lot of hope that it will be an easy, right? When it's come to the judgment in care. An all of a sudden, we were shocked to realize that the three judges came up with dots -standingly, poor judgment on, on issues are, and LGBT people. And for me it was, it was quite sad, but also hearing what they leading judge Justice, Michael said in between ah, which is very important. I'm which I think a lot of people need to take notice of he said, homosexuality, is African that is a path for statement because before, now the argument has always been homosexuality is an African and to have the presiding judge on in in. Country Africa making emphatic statement, we go down a long way in challenging homophobia on the continent, because a lot of these laws stemmed from colonialism exactly an-. You see that just like Kaisei about one six five in, but one is I think is one six, seven in, in Kenya is two two one seven two one eight nine three seven seven in, in India. These are the same law. The same Jamaica, the semi Trinidad and Tobago struck. That was struck down last year. So when you look at this laws, these are laws that came with the Colonia regime, but that said a lot of this country's are old enough to revisit those laws to question those laws and to say this laws in modern times, fit for purpose did decision not to think about it then means that day own up to this log coming there because they have a right to images. Just looking at places where the low hasn't changed in works, particularly bad Uganda. It's a death sentence. Yes. So the case the interesting thing about the case in Uganda is that it's been it's been challenged in court and is not being taken off, because of technical issues, not because they hits the law. But because there were no Corum when the lowest path in Nigeria, the law is still the law was a knocked in two thousand fourteen which means that any eligible persons who think of going into sex marriage with end up in jail for fourteen years if you attend such marriage will end up in jail for ten years, but the interesting part of it is that if you show up if you have a public show of Morris affection so holding Hines with someone in a sense, sex, and situation winkle at someone you will end up in jail for five years, if you set up organizations that cater for the needs of LGBT people, which includes ISSA vis and. Services affect women in interesting situation in domestic violence situation, you will end up in jail for ten years. And those, those are the new wave of hate. That is coming up on the continent. But I'm excited about twenty I'm exacted about on Gola. I'm excited about this show about Mozambique because these are countries that are saying these hate is an African and we will take it out of our system. And just Finally, I wonder I mean, you've spoken about some of the positives. There are countries where these lose are changing. And I think for the rest of the continent, we can have hope, but a lot of this is driven by deep religious, conservatism and the Lewis may change. But I wonder about the attitude of the people in countries where same sex relations are decriminalized. Is it safe? That's very good question and just about last night. I was having a conversation with someone that which is important the change of the law, or the change of heart and minds. I belong to school of thought that I think. That the change of Hatton minded, very important. And that was what laid out in the US Obama wouldn't have passed the, the marriage equality wouldn't have supported marriage equality. Six percent of Americans. We're not in support of it the puppy sites in Australia, wouldn't have walked if someone to present of a stray liens were knowing support of his, and just next door island would not have had equal marriage, eat the people are not in support of it. I think it's very important that we allow people to in the struggle where allow people to own their victory. Because when it's I on them like, we sit in the kiss of staff Rakha, so never has a highest rate of, of a rip of lesbians on the continent of it has a highest rate of gay killing on the continent of Africa. But he has the best constition when it's going to LGBT people in the world because they didn't struggle for an I think the law changing the laws important because it creates a safety net for people to advocate, but I also think that change in heart and mind. Equally important Basie. Thank you very much indeed. That is busy Lamey. The time you're listening to the globe list on monocle twenty four with me, Georgina goatman joining me on the line to business is Louis Kupa. Good morning to Louise. Good morning Georgina. Now once again, we have a blonde man saying stupid things on the front pages. Which one is it? I'm sorry, Georgina, I do try to avoid Trump stories but one almost cannot do say so he's upset the Chinese that's still going on. He's upset the Mexicans that sorta finished now. He's upsetting angle Merckel and it's all about Europe's reliance on Russia for gas A K. This is Europe buys about a third of its gas from Russia, that is probably going to increase European supplies. Go down and there is a new gas pipeline being built should be built within the next year or two. That takes gas directly from Russia into the north of Germany. It's called the Nord Stream two. Object and Trump doesn't like it. So he is being taking on angle Merkley yesterday and he threatened Germany with sanctions. I mean this, this pipelines be built for few years now. So it's gonna stop it now that these threatened, Germany and anyone involved in the building of this pipeline with sanctions, if they continue to build it because he doesn't like Germany being relying on Russia for gas. He's also upset with Germany that it doesn't spend enough on defense. Clearly if it spent a lot more money on defense, then be to the benefit of American defense companies. So he's, he's having a go angle Merkley having a go at Germany. I'm pretty show. It was only loss week. Celebrating the end of the second world will what can I say he's taking on the third a third area putting up trade walls, and upsetting people. Now, of course, his most famous trade will is with China and China, the m- very much in the spotlight because of the Hong. Kong protest. Now, Bloomberg is reporting that China's actually using fiber attacks to limit those protests. So this is a cracking story it arose because the founder of encrypted messaging app Russian guy could draw has actually tweeted a K pal d'oro as the Russian guy who founded an encrypting messaging app, code telegram. Telegraph is one of the most used in Hong Kong. And it seems that telegram, because it was encrypted has been used to get support for the protests. We've all seen the pictures and the and the video footage of protests in Hong Kong. They are extrordinary will he is come out on a tweet and said, is that his messaging this telegram messaging app has been massively disrupted, it's being sort of cyber tact and the source of. Those attacks is China, so know two and two together, and you get to full, which is Beijing has attacked his messaging app, independent of Beijing, clearly in order to clamp in order to stop the protests, quite extraordinary is come out in the last few hours as you would expect every single news organization has picked it up. What is also extraordinary is that the founder, as I said Pavel d'oro in a subsequent tweet said, this case is not an exception. So that clearly suggests that this is some Beijing has done before, so truly extraordinary, you know, we pretty much have evidence that Beijing has used cyberattacks it will to crack down, or tried to damage a try to limit the protests seen in Hong Kong. I'm we're going to be a having lots of extended coverage on the Hong Kong purchase on monocle twenty four throughout the day. We're in touch with bureau there on the streets, and we'll be reporting back into us regularly funny. Louise, some good news. The Philip green eventually. So Philip green is probably one of the UK's most. I think the would flamboyant us on tra- preneurs heavily criticized criticize had his knighthood taken away from him. So we know Gordon surfeit grade, we already fifth grade because of things he's done in the past, but has got a massive really talent pilots, how he made his, his, his, his money, eighteen thousand people work for him over five hundred shops, top shop talk mind. A lot of these brands, sort of, you know, have have really slutty lost the retailing plot. It's also the case that he has a retailer of the past. He's a retail with the high straight. He started off in, in the markets and he's really missed the move to online and hey, has been trying to fool his creditors to accept lower payments for him so that he avoided company going bankrupt. So that is the big thing at the moment of the UK, go to hold out of high street retailers, having terrible troubles that going through this sort of many form of admitted. Station in order to full that creditors. Particularly landlords to take cuts in rents. Now, he ofter second go, he achieved that yesterday and some of the landlords taking cuts for his shops up to fifty percent. However, he such an individual, he so that's used the euphemism charismatic. He couldn't resist boasting in a baby interview, the talk shop didn't come coast to claps. He said, top shop didn't come close to claps, which is probably the thing to say that interview when you've just full steel creditors to accept big cuts to how much oh them, but he's sort of like boasting and the outset everybody the same time boasted these terrible retailer and still got what it takes off the full saying big some creditors. It just kinda makes me laugh. That's a late eighteen thousand people today, waking up in the UK. The will feel far more short at dropping. They would have done yesterday morning. But this is a big thing. In the UK and will come to lots of other countries as well as we turned away from the high street move to online. What happens to those high street shops? Absolutely louise. Thank you very much indeed. That's Louis Cuba. This is the globalist on monocle twenty four. That's a million music health introduce the well to some of the screens most recognizable cartoons. From nineteen thirteen to nineteen sixty-nine. The looney tunes animated shorts gave us classic characters, including Bugs Bunny, pokey pig and Duffy duck. No Warner Brothers is reviving the series one, because Ben Ryland joins us with more Ben. Why is one of brothers bringing this classic series buck? Yeah, it's funny isn't it because it's even though they wrapped up in nineteen sixty nine I think just about everyone of all ages can remember, these cut tunes watching them as a kid. I know certainly for me growing in the nineties, all live television, one brothers as bringing them back. I would say, probably to try and a cement, the brand when you think about something like, Disney, for example, at the moment, taking over the entertainment industry, completely everything about the Disney brand can be summed up by those little Mickey Mouse is now, one of brothers arguably has caused. Of characters who just recognizable and yet, they perhaps haven't been exploiting, that recognition quite as must've as they could. So I think that's what this is all to do with now reviving Kasich is always tricky. Do you think they can recapture that magic is very, very tricky on the topic of Mickey Mouse Disney has been doing new versions of the Mickey Mouse cartoon shorts, and they just don't capture anything about what we remember the golden age Mickey Mouse cartoons. I've watched ninety second cliff that was provided by Warner Brothers to variety of the, the new content. And I've got to say that's an awfully good job of creating that, that real hand drawn animated technique, which I think is missing in so much of what we see in animation today. And of course. Yes, we'll love the Pixar movies and Toy Story. And so and we love that, that CGI animation it looks tremendous, but there is something incredibly different and, and. History about watching something that has been drawn an actual human you go back to the nineteen thirties. And what's the flesh cut turns made by paramount? They're absolutely incredible. Paces of of odd. And I think I think one has done an absolute tremendous job of recreating that say, ninety second sofa, but what we've seen really does capture that beautiful technique, where animation will be put to music, and it almost played out like a dance on a regular, cutting, and of course, the way we consume cartoons or indeed, any visual. Medium now has changed the landscape is completely different from from those early days. So how will these distributions will they be online? Yeah, it's funny, I was looking at what the what was have been saying at the, the animation festival, where this was announced in, in France, and they haven't said how they're going to do it because far as stand. They don't know yet. They've made nearly two hundred cartoons. They've okay them ready to go. And they just don't know what they're gonna do with them yet. So I suppose they'll come to a decision saying, there's no shortage of, of. Options for one as they're about to launch their own streaming platform Syrian as well. So we might see it being put out in, in that sort of format that what you say about the animation shorts it might actually be Mosul today than than it was before, when you think about of the television medium, you would always expect things to go for about thirty minutes. And of course, the animation these animated shorts didn't they made originally to be distributed in theaters before Warner Brothers films, but today, which things on your phone on the way to work in the tube. You know, it might actually bay the perfect time to relaunch this sort of form at all over again. What's your favorite character? Oh Iowa's, used to, like, Marvin, the Martian, when I was a kid, but he's not so common probably like speedy Gonzales, federal Micogne. Thank you very much indeed. That so folks, Ben was produced today are as such was definitely cuts, Neelam nature and stadium. With Kenya's scarlet with editing. From Jack Jaz after the headlines, there's music on the way the briefing is live. Midday in London and return on the globalist at the same time tomorrow. I'm Georgina Godwin. Thank you Phyllis ni.

Hong Kong president parliament Benazir Bhutto UK prime minister Prime Minister Paris Pakistan murder Boris Johnson Warner Brothers Botswana London Georgina Godwin Iran James chambers Samir chuckle Karachi
 Everyday Adventures: Ruzwana Bashir of Peek

Superwomen with Rebecca Minkoff

33:43 min | 8 months ago

Everyday Adventures: Ruzwana Bashir of Peek

"And everyone it's Rebecca. You're listening to superwoman. I am making another plug. Guess what for me? I wouldn't be taking all this great advice. I've been being given by listening to these incredible women if I didn't also say hey when you're in the market for a new bag an amazing clothing item or shoe by me by women own support. Us goes a long way so I hope you'll join this podcast and you enjoy wearing me while you're listening. Today's gas his ruse WanNa Bashir the founder of peak take a listen to find out all things company launch how she belted and what. I'm with Ruse WanNA share the founder of peak and someone. I've seen it fun dinner. Parties sometimes the only other woman at these dinner parties. Welcome thank you. So let's just start off for those who don't know what is peak peak is a one stop shop for travelers and low cost but great experiences so we book about twenty thousand experiences that range from Zip lining and boat tours to toys and going to a wine tour. So it's kind of a mix of different things you can do in your home city and when you're going on vacation and it's for Solo travelers or groups or families or who whoever it's for everyone so we've helped book. Hundreds of millions of dollars of Brookings. This point seven millions of customers settle range from people taking their kids for. Funday of rock climbing all the way through to Romantic you know a holiday in Hawaii. Wow and how old is peak so we started the business in two thousand twelve? And we've got almost two hundred people in the team. Wow and you had some big news recently. Didn't I read something big what we am? I we always think there's big knees Yeah you know. I think you know we've been scaling up the business a lot. So we've we've raised over forty million dollars And that was probably what you kind of saw. We've really kind of owned a space with leader in experiences market which is very big bucket so we are the big play in the United States Where we're leading industry attempts of helping people find great things to do and to help. Businesses get online. Wow can we talk about what it feels like like? Do you feel a pressure when you've raised forty million dollars? That is uncomfortable. Or it's fine with you. Am I think it's fine with me? As long as we use it in the right ways right you know I think I am. I can think of it as the ingredients for a meal that you're cooking like they're one of the ingredients at helps you but if you use them properly the new waste that you'll meals still not going to be great right. So that's how I think about it I think the pressure is the news. Now got more stakeholders people who care about what happens in the business. I deeply care anyway and I WANNA make sure that everybody wins. What is dead people that are in our team our investors and consumers so I think I probably always put a lot of pressure on myself. Anyway this just means that. I think we've got more tools in order to do what we want to do. What occurred that? You had this idea to launch peak so I went Istanbul for a trip with my girlfriends as my birthday and I am really wants to find great things today and it took me hours and hours to figure out what to do and then I had to call these businesses to be able to get these cool experiences that I wanted to The whole process was lengthy and heart. And I didn't know I could go to a one stop shop to be able to book and by And there wasn't really anything out bad. So that's what inspired me to. Stop Dot Com. So you started it woman. One woman show I did. I did but very quickly. I realized that I needed to build technology that I need to have a great website and Those going to be a look under the hood and so I went to find a co-founder who technical in my background at opened on the business side as I want to find somebody who Techy okay and prior to doing beak what were you doing site in finance originally so my What to Gaughman in them black stain and I moved to America to go to business school. I really wanted to entrepreneur and I thought that would teach me how to be an entrepreneur. Is Pretty Wrong about that action business? Go doesn't teach you that much around entrepreneurship but it got me to the states And I started working on a couple of startups here in New York Gilt Groupe and artsy and that really kind of what. My appetite are building companies and so and that was the experience. I had before I started and you wanted to stay in the states. You didn't want to go back to Europe. I always kind of thought I would end up going back but I fell in love with America in an entrepreneurship in the US. I've been such a positive and optimistic. Outlook the Americans have about approaching building new things I think there's not as much of a fair failure as we have in the in in Europe and say that kind of worked for starting a business so how many years has husband around spat seven years. Wow How do you deal with management up to all your investors who you know before when we had lots of investors? Like you almost feel like your homework assignment. You know like quarterly homework assignments but you also have employees and you've customer so talk to me about how you slice sort of. Split your mind and the three service groups. Yeah I mean I think it is tricky. Because it's almost the the so much you can do for each party and the customer comes to save for us that's the biggest focus And really what we try to do is be really. Transparency Information for team and our investors can be very similar ultimately. We want everybody in our company to know what's going on and you know how a winning and how she losing how we doing things that aren't working so in the end those two things and any kind of work doing ends up being very similar and I think it's also important to have invested so want to help as much as kind of accountability in governance. But there's also hey this here's the pass were going. How could you contribute to that? And so trying to make sure everybody's focused on those things because otherwise I think it can feel like homework as opposed to a partnership and working together and I haven't necessarily always gotten a right sometimes it can be really challenging to to kind of get that balance especially since you're not always going to have a situation where things are going really well and you want to build that trust and report and credibility was also acknowledging that you're GonNa make mistakes right and do you feel as a woman as a woman of color at do you feel that your fundraising was harder or like the things that we constantly hear right. Two percent of women get funding in all those fun stats or I think is harder for people. Who Don't you know fall into stereotype for people. Expect for tech companies Especially going to investors that are traditional tech investors. I think The the kind of awareness of that bias is is has increased over time. So when I was fundraising I think people weren't really recognizing that it might be different For a win voices man going into that room and that people might be making some biases even though the intention may not be there. They're making assumptions And I definitely found that people said things or kind of made assumptions that they wouldn't have made if they weren't judging me by the way that I looked and that was kind of tricky and I wasn't really showing the elite as on how to deal with that and so over time what I realized is that it was important to be almost bendik south and also can get ahead of the concerns that people might have in so I knew that that was something that was important and so I. I made sure that I helped them understand why I started the business and my background and what we done already in full team. We had Because I understood to that with some gaps that I was going to have to make up four which you know one fact But they were by seas. I I knew that they might have And so that that was kind of how I dealt with it but I do think that it's tricky for women Women have colored up to raise capital. It is harder because those ways of being able to bond with someone are different. An investing is a mixture of the idea the market opportunity in the timing and the desire to say. I want to work with this person and Bill Company with them and sometimes you can't build those kind of relationships in that rapport. I was being quite reserved when I went into the meetings because I knew I think in some ways I wanted to be my most professional self and in the end. Actually you don't want to just be a professional staff. You WanNa be with self because then people get Jay you and say yes. I WANNA pot with to build this business. I'm really excited about this opportunity. And I was a bit more reserved and formal when I went in and I dig narrowly worked. So how did you not to let your guard down and just be more you? I think it was actually a time. I realized people made all these assumptions. And say you know. I didn't have this really clear entrepreneurship right. So I grew up in Yorkshire in the middle of nowhere. My Dad's sulfur vegetables. My Mum doesn't speak English and and he's very poor. Community is very conservative and so it was only kid to ever kind of get out and get a scholarship to Oxford and it changed my life and so I would always used to working really hard to get to something and kind of trying to make. It look like it was flawless. But like like a you know the dot com to the water your your feet of flopping and you're trying to still be graceful and hop on and say I'd always been used to having to work really hard to get something but hopefully trying to fit in and so then it got too often after fed. I became President Union with trae say debating society. It's very prestigious. Suprematist is Saddam that and say as kind of trying to always fit in indeed these these great things that would show that is capable and when I went into the VC rooms. I realized that by taking all these boxes in getting this kind of pedigree that none of them thought that I had to fight really hard for things so you know. Somebody passed on investing in peak and they said well. I wasn't sure you had the grit to do this and I thought it bloody hell like kidding. You know in order to get here every time you know first woman into my team of blackstone in the one hundred people you know until I was always used to kind of do getting these obstacles in overcoming them but I think in some ways by not showing how that had been all being kind of you know acting as though that wasn't tough I was letting myself down because people didn't realize that I've been through really tough things and that I could get through So that was one of the one of the lessons for me when I when somebody said that. I thought you know you've got me completely wrong but I get what you might have. You didn't ask the questions which was in. Fact made a lot of assumptions but equally. I I should do a better job of showing you why and passion about what I do. I'm hardworking and why I've probably got more capabilities and skills than you might see on my resume which looks a bit to business school. Perfect makes sense so WANNA go back to growing up willing. Which is your mom. Speak so we do when I was wearing up. Semi parents pump boxton. Gotcha okay. So Your Dad's old vegetables. You grew up in a poor community. That was very conservative. So when you sort of like go across the Chasm and here you are a key. A huge company. Raise all this money. You're very successful. Do you still feel like you're that little girl who's trying to like for me like I always have a feeling of like growing up and my parents were very strict and we weren't given staff we had to earn it and I'm still. I always feel like I always had this idea of like. It's never enough you know. Even though it's more than a lot of people might ever have right but do you have that. Does it stick with you? Yeah I think I probably have a similar feel I also think feel quite fortunate In the sense that a lot of people that I grew up with didn't have a lot of opportunity and so special. The women I grew up. They didn't get a chance to get educated. They didn't get a chance to F- work a lot of the moderate marriages and so they couldn't even pick the partner they wave and so. This is incredible freedom that I have but then also this responsibility that comes with it which as well if I'm the lucky one I've got to make the most of it so I think I have a little bit of the same kind of attitude. I'm always kind of push myself. A lot hotter Because of that and because I also think that there's an opportunity to give back in so I want to do more and be able to build a really great successful company and and be able to help others that were like me. I think I definitely feel. Were in a time where the world is quite an equal I definitely feel that personally around. You know I was really lucky. These breaks and in England when I went to Oxford. I pay for my education. I didn't pay Hewish. And he worked hard to get that scholarship exactly. But you know you've realized so many people today would work really hard but they still can't get that opportunity so I definitely feel also this kind of sense of really deep empathy for those. That aren't as fortunate because I remember myself in those situations where you know. There wasn't a lot of dignity and being the pawtucket that wasn't a Lotta dignity in in not fitting in and trying to and looking different and you know I think that was That was tough. And so I think it's given me a lot of empathy But it's also it also means that I kind of want to achieve a lot because I think it's important To try and make a difference. If you've got opportunity to do that totally so did you. Was it hard to have that discussion with your parents of like. You'RE NOT GONNA arranged marriage for me and I'm GonNa go to college. Yeah I mean I think it was always kind of this this this difference that that was hard for them to accept I think they're all cultural differences. And I think now you know I realized that you kind of have to make your own path and sometimes you're going to do things that people don't agree with that actually you don't think of the right things for them to do either and so. I kind of very early had to get my own sense of what was right and wrong. I wanted to do and you know kind of build my own moral compass about how to behave in life and and that was a hard thing to do when you're at university at a kind of a spotty teenager by kind of had to do that. Yeah and so. What are some of the either expected or unexpected challenges? You've had and personal career that have like I don't know been transformative for you. What a great question I would say on the professional side. I think you know starting a company you put your name on the door is you know and so. I didn't realize how much pressure I would feel that Obligation I think. Sometimes I wasn't able to make the best decisions because I was kind of too emotionally involved and You know it was very stressful. And there was a toll that that took on the personally On it and I think that I wasn't expecting next. I've always worked for done really hard things. But when it's kind of your baby and everything feel everything every shock and so I think Those ups and downs with challenging and I have found myself kind of wanting to go home and eat pizza and chocolate cake. You know if do that too many times you realize you don't fit into your plates anymore and it kind of you know you're kind of really tired exhausted and you're still pushing yourself these eighteen hours weeks and so that was really hard to kind of get through And and still feel like. You're great entrepreneur. And you can do this because you've got to have the confidence in order to do that I think on the personal level. One of the most challenging transformative things. I did was there when I started the company I I've been abused as a kid. I'd be sexually abused by neighbor when I was young and I actually went back and prosecuted might be a while and so that was something that I kind of did quite privately and I think that was a lot of me it. This is before me to kind of era where people were sharing these kind of things and so it felt very scary to kind of have people know something that was deeply personal apology and so I am. I went and kind of did did this didn't really tell anyone He ended up going to jail. And so we are successful prosecution and so. I felt this obligation been lifted because I knew the other kids probably being abused. If he wasn't I didn't do something about it. How how old were you in this happen? And how long after did you prosecute him? So I was about nine ten when it happened and I didn't prosecutor for twenty s so I was kind of adult by the time I started and so Back in a gutless prosecution. The whole process is kind of quite quite challenging. And you're going to the police in your testifying in court and it's a lot of stuff that I kind of logic dealt with on my own without pretty telling. A lot of people said earn a couple of people in my life that even knew about it And then you know afterwards basically you know some stuff happened in the UK and You know these issues of obese sunny rose up in the media and I realized I had to speak up about my experience because there was a lot of situations while box on e. kits had been abused and they weren't speaking up because there's a lot of shame in the community about talking about issues like this and so. I ended up writing an article for the Guardian. I'm that they put on their front cover of newspaper and it was right by a million people and all of a sudden gone from having this thing that was deeply puzzle everywhere and it was so scary to put something out there and have people know something really personal but also I wanted to have an impact without which is I wanted to change some laws and some of the things that were going on in the K. And so that was the most scary thing I've ever done And it was also really transformative because it was something that I kept secret but it wasn't really my secret to be ashamed of you know I and equally it was something where I wasn't being true to myself because this was something that defined part of my story and you know I was able to take ownership of it and kind of close the door on that and say okay. Well this was something that was obviously an awful thing But the has been kind of some element of justice and this hopefully a positive impact that came out of it It also meant that might erections with lots of people changed 'cause all of a sudden or these people coming up to me and sharing their stories and said before me to happen. I add a sense while we have this kind of pandemic of abuse and harassment. And she's where its people as children or or you know rape as adults those just a whole lot of this awful stuff that was going on and so it made me really realize that so many of us are suffering without speaking up and it changed my relationship with his felt. I could be more vulnerable and open because before that I was always kind of being quite tough and not really letting people in and so I think it really transformed who I was and change my change my perception of the world and allowed me to actually have much more meaningful relationships with people. Yeah because you just keep Beth stuff hidden. You're also whatever you're holding in your also holding back an and so i. I think I also was able to kind of recognize the you know. This isn't unfortunately unique right And Soup before me to happen. I just heard from so many people from so many different places. So you know another entrepreneur. New told me he'd been abused by a police officer in his hometown. In Maine through to you know You know Switzerland's offer Nigeria olive in color talking about how their communities wouldn't let them kind of face up to these things and so it was really powerful piece For me I think hopefully helped people which was important if that I talked to my friend Fred. And Pharaoh about it if he is gay and this was before he obviously did the metoo reporting and say remember having long conversations about how these things can remain hidden and things and so. It's definitely the case that I think we as a society have moved on And really acknowledged that there are all these important things we have to do to tackle these ills and abuses in in our communities I I got a taste of realized that we are more empowered than we think can often. It's B- our ability to say no. We went stanford this matters. It was very empowering young. I'm as much as it was kind of challenging grocery. But I think what you've done is like some women who were obviously victims have chosen to remain victims and I love that you sort of said. No I'm going to be in control and I'm going to take this back. What would you say that they? How did you know how to do that? I mean I think I didn't know how to do that but I think I've always been somebody who you know. Things always tough. It was always hard to get things done and so I kind of realized when things challenging you have to kind of own and I'm trying to make the best of it and so I'm reasonably optimistic in so I kind of thought this was been really awful but you know I'm going to move on and I'm going to give myself the tools that are needed to go on so it wasn't like I didn't go to a therapist and try and talk through these things in realized what was going on and how I felt about it but I think the Wanted to translate into something positive. And that's why I think there are. That's a journey that was really challenging. Lots of parts of the journey entrepreneur with work mistakes. You've made I think you kind of have to recognize this. It'd be things that you will do. No didn't do well or that. You're upset about this kind of not a lot gained from not moving on from that and just trying to take the best lessons you and so that's always my attitude of quarter I think a learning mindset. I'm like it's okay that I didn't do that way. Wanted to or something didn't work perfectly But you can move on. I think the other thing that was important to me was to help people understand that. That isn't what defines you right so this was something that was really awful and I was able to kind of you know I think help others. But it's not the only part of my life story you know it's kind of you know there's a whole big amount of things that I want to do in the world and actually it's quite funny because this is something that's quite societas with suffering. But when I look at my life's work is actually about helping people be happy yet right and when I what I really care about is inspiring joy as a reason I started peak was because I thought isn't what help you have fun. I want to you know connection and And human connection is so important and I wanted to give people more opportunities to be able to go out and have fun moments with people care about. So maybe it's a great date night or maybe it's fun with your kids. I just wanted people to be able to have an this joy and so actually Peak. What's really fun job? Is there you know. We're having these positive impact where we help thousands of entrepreneurs great businesses and then people come into these experiences having some amazing time when their trip and so A lot of what I care about a about inspiring that joy. But you've got to recognize it so so a lot of suffering in the world that we have to alleviate totally so each time I see you. I'm struck by your optimism your happiness. I mean a lot of entrepreneurs and I I'm going to raise my hand versus like it's hard and like you know but you don't seem to wear that on your sleeve now have you gotten that mindset. I think that you know like everybody. I have my days when I'm down and you know I feel like Oh. Nothing's going right but even with a smile having I just kind of I guess in some ways I'm just used to it a little bit. I think that You know when as a kid my reprise can help my homework and I couldn't do. It said that it was just. I remember being Twelve years old and I kind of suck math and I couldn't get it and then the teacher gave me is probably book from the nineteen forties. Because it's in the north of England and said here's these problem sets and I went away of this summer. I did hundreds of these problem sets and I came back and I was getting close and it meant that I ended up doing math and getting on my as and stuff and I realize that sometimes you should not stink sock often. If you put your work in you can get there and so I think knowing that there's a bit more control over things anything you do. Think you have helps me but I also have to check myself. You know. There's times when I'm feeling down and a half to say hey. Is this really where you want to be I can I'll try and get a good night's sleep and the things I think I know. Help me get into that good positive mood. But it's still a challenge for me as well especially sometimes when Lots of bad stuff happens at the same time and it feels really stressful and in those moments should have to acknowledge. It's really stressful. And almost take those moments in not push myself quite as much you know You know those are the Times where I say okay. Well I'm not GonNa let myself sleep vows tonight because I know that I kind of need to get some rest so that I can be good tomorrow so I think it's about also knowing your limits a little bit and trying to live within those if you can because I think when I was younger I didn't do that and then I'd end up really putting myself in positions where I was like really burnt out. It was really hard. It took enormous discipline to get through it in a way that perhaps our energy is not there as you get older so I think I'm learning how to do it but there are times for me. That are really difficult as well and I think quite fortunate exciting. Sometimes people do have a mental illness or some other things to deal with. And I haven't had that in my life but you know like everybody. I have times when it seems overwhelming. I don't know what to do about it. Yeah and and I don't know that I deal with it really well. Sometimes I'm like Oh wow. I just wasted a whole day because I was just worried and I couldn't get anything done and then you even more in a cycle but I do try to have a check of a K will get three most important things done and then we'll move on and try and get winds out of the day. So what's a great piece of advice? Either you have been given they wanna pass on or that. You've gleaned from your years of entrepreneurship sinking really is kind of keeping no confidence I think that often so much stuff can happen. That it's really hard to look at things and think that you made lots of mistakes and then to feel pretty down on yourself and then you didn't have the confidence to to be able to make decisions auditing. So you need to do I remember. I think I read a quote from Barack Obama kind of said well when something gets onto my plate it it means that nobody else can kind of figure it out which means it's a really tough problem so if. I kind of get it right. Hof Time then. I'm probably doing pretty well because it seems that nobody else wants to do with this issue. And it's too hard and so I think in some ways is a CEO or an entrepreneur. But it's kind of how things odd things come to you. Fire or something terrible happened or it's really hard to figure it out and so. I think you have to kind of hold yourself. Accountable also recognized that it's really tough And then have that confidence to the even. If you've done something poorly the next day you can kind of have a fresh start. And that's probably been the most important thing for me again. You know there were weeks when I take feel that way but then there will be extent. You're on top of things you're doing really well and you feel great but also have to recognize that might be a moment in time It can be dangerous to either drink too much of Erin collate or get really down and say Having the confidence to tackle everything every day important I think as women often we hold ourselves as you mentioned aaliyah crazy high bar right you you know you had. It wasn't really easy for you to get which way you are but you still need to do so much more It's never enough. No nobody your feet up exactly An- and so I think it was women especially I think we can beat ourselves pilot And I'm trying to learn to do that. The less and have that confidence each day. Even when you know I might not feel. I deserved it. I think that there's this through line and keep trying to pick it apart of like who started the marketing campaign that this should be easy. 'cause like everyone is always shocked about how hard it is and I'm like but someone marketed us that it shouldn't be like if everyone said this is gonNa suck a lot and it's GonNa be hard. We wouldn't be so like deer in headlights. I go you couldn't have told me that was going to happen yet. I think it's always you have to have the naive optimism. Otherwise would never saw right through them. You know I take the marketing people have is because the any see the good bits. I think people read the articles all they read when the news is that right to your point us. Some great news right. You're not reading the terrible news like keep twelve selves. Because we know what they want to know about it right right also. That is a little bit of a of a Young Company. You kind of have to fake it till you make it right and say you don't. WanNa tell people about the strife And how it's been really hard or you lots of investors telling you know right didn't invest your idea because that seemed that rejection seems like it means that it's not a good idea right so. I think that because we're not good at sharing the hard pieces and because the way that we celebrate things is often in those milestones they know about your one day a new one moment of of extreme high They never know about the three hundred sixty four days that were either normal kinda crappy and so we probably need to do a better job of telling that but am it can be hard to be vulnerable enough to say that you had something while lots of people said no random and you've made lots of mistakes and things aren't working in San Areas. The business and you know I think we force people to have a lot of Bravado. Because if you don't have that bravado than often those companies what may because it's a bit self-fulfilling right. So do you take your own advice and Book Yourself? Great experiences on peak high trysofi. Yeah go on trips right I am I think it's really important for creativity and for your general happiness and also to build these connections with people So I think it's it's a really big piece of kind of why think is important and how I live my life and so the I started the business as personally a big passion. I also think it's important to like about other cultures and understand the communities and so for me Is a big piece of why and say and it's actually funny because I'll tell you. Why did you end up taking a lot of trips for inspiration as well? Oh you know doing that as part of your work. I've never strictly taken a trip for inspiration of always had to build inspiration into a trip but I would like to be that person. Yeah just like I'm GonNa go get inspired but I feel like time and money of always conspired that I have to like fit a zillion things into something. Yeah so I think I think that I think I'd like everyone to do is have everyday adventures I think one of the biggest mistakes that we make is that we save things up for vacation when in fact every weekend is an opportunity to do something fun. Two legs of the you can do a cooking class. You know on a Saturday afternoon with your friends right and you could help your kids learn how to horse ride at the weekend. You don't have to. You don't have to have these big long trips that you save up all the fun times for I think I'd like people to do is have everyday experiences. That are having fun with 'em and they're remembering the ghetto. Probably sitting in front of that Netflix for a couple of hours is not is enriching as going and having Some moments with people you care about. And so even if that's going to escape room because he wanted to puzzle with your friends nutty through to you know learning something new. I think I really WANNA encourage people to do that. And I definitely do that. I find it a great way to spend time with people that I care about but I've always had that bollock bug. I think I just want more people have it because I know that experiences make you happy product by a long way and I think an age of social media where we look on our phones and you can spend an hour on social media. Doesn't make you feel good. You don't get any quality time with anyone. You have no memory and so I think for a happiness. I think we do need to have more experiences agreed so my last vinyl question is what would we be surprised to know about? You surprised to know about me when I'm a big NERD. You fashionable nerd and you know I kind of you know. Even if I'm if I'm wearing my well well the funny thing is because I am i. I love clothes. And that's because WanNa when I was a kid. I wasn't allowed to wear western plates so I won't traditional Buxton Shaw Camis which is not the world's Miss Flattering outfit. One of the shower. Connie Comey's it's basically as as a curb dress with some trousers underneath. But it's quite baggy and scarf So you know something that you might have seen smaller Benazir Bhutto al-mallahi Yousafzai Huma Pakistani And so I you know I never got to wear anything else. I was growing up as a kid in England. What people were wearing these clothes jeans and I didn't get to do anything and say part of the reason that I am. I enjoy being playful with closes. Polly's creativity right. It's fun to be able to show your creativity in in in that way but it's also because I just never got that choice into now that I am able to whatever I want I kind of think. Yeah just west sequence. Why Not Monday? You're seeing exactly exactly So the thing that people worry about me is that I'm a massive nerd and so I love history and I will read You know a junkie for historical fiction which is kind of like it makes you feel like you're still being Nettie but he's actually also kind of trashy stories Sometimes say yet man. I love some historical fiction. Love Back Leon. Uris is good for that. Okay great all right. Hey acas to read that. That's good historical with little trash. You know love story in there too. Exactly thank you thank you. That was WANNA share the founder of peak. You can follow what she's up to and definitely get more information of her at peak. Thank you guys as always for listening. Thank you as always for writing in sometimes. I'm not the quickest getting back to you but I promise you. I'm reading your reviews. I'm reading your comments and I appreciate them so much. Keep listening keep downloading keep sharing and thanks for making this a joy to bring to you.

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Fatima Bhutto On Her Book "The Runaways"

Coffee and Books

43:27 min | 3 months ago

Fatima Bhutto On Her Book "The Runaways"

"The following podcast is an embassy row production. Hey everybody I'm Marc Lamont Hill owner of uncle bobbies coffee. In books I am a professor, a scholar and most importantly a Buchner. Book nerd because I don't just love to read books. I'm the guy who loves to read about the Book I love hearing all this talk about how and why they wrote the book and I love talking to other book nerds about their favorite books. That's why I started coffee and books podcast all about books every episode I. Sit down over a cup of coffee with the world's biggest authors to discuss the most interesting controversial fund and important books. Sometimes I just hang out with experts, fans and other special guests to talk about some of the greatest books of all time and I'm so excited to be joined today by. Joshi is award winning author world renounced written books like a shadow of the crescent moon songs of blood and sward new kings of the world, and of course, our newest book the runaways good to see you to see you are thank you for having me here. I was my pleasure. Now at the beginning of every episode, I always say what kind of coffee drinking I wanted to read a couple of your books last night. So I didn't all neither of just. Tech's. So I'm drinking just espresso and just had been having a special day. Now you're a writer and you be Julian books of all genres do drink coffee when you're right I do I caught right without coffee? What do you drink? It's mood dependent but at the moment, I'm using a MOCHA, the Italian drip coffee. Yeah. So you're Nancy coffee drinker no, it's not fans. It's less fancy than espresso. It's also weaker than espresso their point now. I think. You. Disavow. Yourself I go to the store I only and I still don't make. Writing I've been writing more, but that's that's a fair point. Your latest book is called the runaways. Why that title of? What's it about? Runaways is about a world on fire. It's about the weaponization of the Internet and the weaponization of isolation and loneliness. It's about radicalism on. It's about young people who take up arms against the world and the title because that's what they do. They're they're leaving behind everything that they've ever known in love. It's a wonderful book to me and it really helps us understand. In human terms people go. On that journey to becoming quote unquote radicalized notes and social media accounts, you know sort of fundamentalist religious accounts. As the explanatory factor you help us understand the human factors and the social conditions that lead people to that place. I think it's a wonderful wonderful book you. So you have an honor through the first fiction writer to be on the coffin books podcast normally sit with people who write nonfiction books but this is a pretty begins I'm excited. Thank You I. AM honored. It's great to speak with you about anything really the thing we spoke about was propaganda film. Before that where we met at an zero studio, we spoke about I mean everything. As though true we were in we were in London and. And actually had a copy of the runaways. Then before it made the US prints I, it was fun to read. It was even better to read it the second time in light of everything that's been going on around the world. So let's talk about the book what as you write this book It's always something that's haunted you that forces you to write a novel. When you're curious about something, you might tend to nonfiction. You know when you see something clearly will appreciate with fiction but when something disturbs you once you I, think novels of the only way to go and it had really been my entire adult life. From the age of whatever it was nineteen twenty years old that the West seemed to be at war with the Muslim world and even though they said, they weren't you had western armies in Iraq and Afghanistan you had drove wars and Pakistan Somalia places like that and. You couldn't escape it if you happen to be a young person from that part of the world anytime, you were at an airport fact that you are Muslim made you a threat. Your source of suspicion and I became. Wounded, I became tired of it. And so it was really around two thousand fourteen that I sat down and thought I'm going to write a novel about this because it had kind of reached Zenit in two thousand fourteen when Isis. Turned up. And they were spectacular and horrifying, very performance and people. Just lost themselves to this kind of hysteria. And I found myself having to explain the strangers to people I knew that this really didn't have anything to do with this. And radicals was a really complicated subject wasn't the way it was being portrayed at some point. I just gave up explaining it and sat down inside lightning. Wow in a powerful portraying the book looks at this idea of radicalization and it really forces us to to wrestle with the question of how do people get their. You know in Western media in particular, we hear the stories of radicalization, but they always seem very distant and exotic in dehumanizing in certain kinds of ways yet they are the the Western media narrative. Will tell you like Oh this person in the Muslim though they're radicalized and it's it's as though something inherent to Islam- or the Muslim experience has driven then this life of crime and violence and terror. But of course, any study you WANNA. At he's all over the world for decades of shown that religion is not a spark to radicalism it actually an insulator. It's a protector and most of the young men and women who are radicalized and who joined these terrorist groups on front joining because they're scholars of religion there joining. In fact, they know very little about religion but the joining because they're angry and because they're alienated and because there he need. And because ultimately they don't see that their society has a place for them. And so they will take any place, but he offered to them reading the book I felt like, I was getting a powerful window into these experiences almost the documentary for me. But like a good one, you know whether director is committed to helping us understand who these people are. It's not an overly sympathetic read in my estimation. You know it's not like you're making excuses for folk. You're you're you're not justifying nor you fully dismissing the choices people make as much as you're helping us understand the other three primary characters. Who You us to in the book have a little. Talking about fiction book for some reason in a podcast like I don't WanNa, spoil anything for the person who hasn't read it. There are three. And this I character Anita Roses is an interesting one help me understand her a little bit. Well, one of the things I wanted to do with the runaways is to say we're not GonNa talk about religion as the spark to radicalism than what are the reason and Anita rose is a young girl from Karachi, and she doesn't live in the neighborhood that Monte of the other captive lives in. She lives in a congested and crowded colony, which is a sort of by word for slum. And she's a poor girl she is. The child of a single mother. And Anita Roses is one that rejects wander allows Renault access no space no voice new privilege because she doesn't belong to the center she comes from the periphery of the city. And it needs to rose's story is one about a raging inequality. About the devastations of inequality and the devastations of poverty and what that does to anyone but in particular announce Fokin young girl. So the road to radicalization Harvey's, it should be a key part of the conversation again when we look over the last decade or so groups like the Taliban other things you know sometimes, if you watch if you watch American Cable News you would think that they were these kinds of magicians who come in captivate the people in lure them into bad choices in unethical choices violence simply because the people are too uncivilized or unsophisticated to understand that there are better options the idea that people get radicalized because oftentimes radical organizations radical. Movements invest in those places they they come with. There is no school where there is no playground where there is no food in jobs and say, Hey, here's an opportunity. Those groups are problematic themselves but they but they come with something and something material that people aren't getting an idea that this relationship between poverty and radicalization is something that we take seriously. But with Anita this character, any two rows like this idea of not wanting to be engaged servitude non wanting to be a consigned to a certain kind of life is key. Yeah I think that there are several ways to approach it an end the one you mentioned. Is Very important. You know we see this time in in cases of disaster in. Has. Floods every year I mean it's happening now in the news as we speak up to the monsoon rains, the city is so inept that they can't do anything and people are drowning in ultimately become sewage water because they've gotten no facilities no support and a lot of organizations will come in and they'll clean away that water. You know they'll come in with food they'll come in with candles when the electric goes. Though absolutely what you mentioned these vital and in the case of a need to rose and I'll be a little. Circumspect only because all. Over spoiler is interesting things that I don't WanNa give away. It's really important. I. Think to know that when people are not given options. By their society. They will either destroy that society or they will offer their loyalty, their space, their voice to a society that engages with them, and I think that's I think that's key and I. Think it's one of the things that have been missed in the conversation on radicalism. Another thing that I I think about when I think about this other catcher sunny is the idea of belonging the idea of wanting to connect in how people can be captivated by Messianic Figures Bhai. Charismatic figures because of these human needs we have because there's the structural stuff that we talked about right I did poverty joblessness will make you do all kinds of stuff leauge down certain roads but there's a human is their own gaps, our own kind of individuals, stories and experiences the holes in our own childhood. The needs we have is people that also make us vulnerable to everything from colts the charismatic leadership to to radical groups. Sunny for me in some ways was the most the most interesting Cagney if the character resonated of me the most but. Because he's my favorite. Really. makes. Me Feel good shows right more. Think Sunny comes from this. This romantic longing that his father has his father leaves India the country of. Of everything you know the country, their ancestors of their struggles of their dreams and Sonny's father Sulaiman Jamile goes to England and he goes against the advice of his friends and some of his family. Because he really believes that the future is westward. And he believes that the West is a place that is magically going to open itself to him. That's going to welcome him. That's GonNa, appreciate his initiative and his striving and reward him for it, and of course, he finds out the moment he lands after a disastrous sort of Joni is that that's not true. The West is contemptuous of people like him. The West is suspicious of people like him and the West is is is unyielding. It doesn't want to open up and bestow him with all the gifts of of Dorian and province, but Sonny's father still believes that it will. Even decades later, and his son who was born in Portsmouth. And who brought up in Portsmouth and goes to school in Portsmouth on the stands viscerally that he doesn't belong and anytime he forgets that he's remind. And so he has a he has I think a lot of people feel right now, which is a an acute sense of isolation. Interview. Don't belong where you are. You have another place to belong to that's waiting for you. Where do you go to be understood? What what options of brotherhood and communion and community are available to you? And that's something that some e struggles but. Let's talk a little bit about this theory character as well because I'm fascinated by Monte. I'm really fascinated by layla, but I'm going to start with Monty who was Monte an an and lures Monte down this road. Well I I think you know one of the amazing things about radicalism if we look at it through real life. Is that not good squares with what we think about radicalism so there was a a young American woman cooled Woodham was Lasana. I think was He's from Alabama and I believe her family migrated from from Somalia and one of the things she said. was that you know she went to this normal high school when she wanted to be on the football team and go-to sleepovers and all the rest of that. But her parents were really strict and they didn't let her be a normal American teenager, which is what she was. And she ran away to dash to to Isis to be free. To you or me that might sound completely. Off. KILTER. Or. Counter. Intuitive. Monte story is one of those things that. that. I. Felt might be counter intuitive but important Monte. From Karachi to like an Isa Rosa Layla. But he's incredibly priviledged. Monte is not from the periphery of the city, Montes from the heart the gold heart of the city and Monte wants for nothing needs nothing it denied now. Goes to the best school lives in the best neighborhood. But yet. Something appears to be missing. Something appears not to add up entirely from Monte and he does have a certain loneliness but really Monte becomes fixated on a young woman could layla. And what happens with Layla And? A kind of. Heart thickness or heartbreak. Is wants throws Montes World of balance and forces him to make decisions that he would not. Just happens to the best of us when you think about your intended audience for a book like this. Who's your ideal reader? Whenever I write I'm my ideal reader in a strange way because if you start to imagine what incidents I think you become compromised by the imagination because then you start writing in a direction. To appeal to people or to interest people and I think that can be dangerous. So. When I'm writing the thing I'm always following is something I'm distressed about curious about or don't understand and I have to be faithful to wherever it goes is that makes sense I started to write the runaways. What I imagined would be the story didn't end up being the story the story changed form. Would you consider to be connected? Yeah. Yeah. I, it was a story of two boys. It was initially the story of wanting sunny in the desert in Iraq on a March? Thrown together, though they can't stand each other. That was the story there was there was. There was no past. There was no female There was nothing that was just a kind of forward movement and it it didn't work. So had to keep rethinking INS, and as I resorted all these other narratives came to the fore. So I. Don't I try not to write for instance but I, always hope whoever reads my books. Will be a little disturbed by them. You say disturbed you mean like unsettled like kind of socratic way like. I don't want to I want to people. But I mean absolutely socratic I mean. I would like it that people sit down with my book can think it will go one way and then find themselves paused because it forced them to rethink something or we imagined something that they hadn't figured going in. Yeah no that makes it I think as I read it, I imagine. What it would be like, and I'm not a novelist. So when I write I'm writing for an audience of since and I'm trying to preach to the choir or persuade the Middle American or debate my political foes. You'll have a very clear audience and I thinking about it from a perspective of a novel I wondered who people right who people think about because in my mind, there's an American. With fairly traditional American politics but who's open minded will read this book. And having much more humanized understanding of what's happening but also have an understanding perhaps of the relationship between what we do. How we vote what Policies Produce and the outcomes on people's lived experiences elsewhere that there's some relationship between who we are and what the world is. And that's for me is not just a green of move as political movement. You see your novels as as political acts. Yeah absolutely I think I really do believe all fiction is political. You know if you choose to write a novel about a young woman. Who Goes shopping every day I mean you're making an incredible political statement would that novel you're saying something about the times we live in to do that and I think that fiction really is frozen horse. It really allows you to take dangerous uncomfortable things, explosive things and package them in a way that people won't see them coming. If I came up to you and said, would you like to read a story about some radicals who may or may not do barely horrifying thing you might not be in the mood for you might say are no I'm a bit tired. But in a novel. You wouldn't see it coming. You know it would be a beautiful wooden horse not about radicalism or terrifying things it would be about loneliness it would be about the Internet it would be about young lions. In uncertain time it would be about a young girl whose mother is a maliciously, which means that she goes around being houses with a little plastic bag of oils to massage rich women as they lay in their bedrooms after a long day doing absolutely nothing. You know I'm curious about that girl in a way I'm cute I'm not curious about terror but. Everything is connected I. Really do believe everything is connected and the runaways for me. Wasn't so much a book when I sat down to write it about radicalism, it was a burke about wounded. Book about being wounded by by the world. And what you might do in return. You are a novelist you also are S as. You also do journalism. I. The last book was journalistic as well as kind of cultural criticism. And that way you remind me a great deal of Baldwin. Baldwin could write an essay on what it meant to be black and queer or same gender loving in the nineteen sixties or seventies but he can also right Giovanni is room and you could come to terms with these characters in in France on their own terms. You've made similar choices. Did you understand your your rightly identity to be one or the other issue? Kinda just ventured into one other. Well first of all, I love bolden I mean my two. Little constant heroes and I know. You share this Mar Malcolm, X. and Baldwin. Because I find them I, find the Freeman and Freeman because they're unafraid. unafraid of truth and they on unafraid of Arjun Tower, an injustice. And in in that way, they're both incredibly beautiful inspiring writers. And speakers as well as thinkers. And I think. When when I? Roland what I'm looking for is is he's I you know is the way in which he sees anything. The way in which she sees Italian waiter in Paris the way he sees. A cultural. Of deeply ingrained. Racism and oppression I think when I sit down to rights and not necessarily thinking about whether I want to do fiction or nonfiction. Something's Colt my may I and I and I want to watch it and whatever way is the best way of watching it. I'll do that. But it will say and you may consider writing fiction after this mark that there is a kind of freedom with fiction that you just don't have with nonfiction. We'll kind of free will not fiction nonfiction. There's so much clearer. You know. Like you said, you know what you need to know what to get you know how you need to present it and you know how you defend it but it kind of holds you in that way whereas with fiction. Your liberty in the world. To imagine to use real things, no one will ever know which is which except you you know it's like operating under cover of night. Like operating in the dark. Being comfortable in the dark. So you're by instinct you find your way. And that that is something I feel drawn to. Oregon in the end you have been writing for a long time, you're quite young because we're busy major. I'm going to hold onto that. You're quite young. Yet, you have published many books you start at fifteen first book, he potion called whispers of the desert. Yes, I did I had studied writing poetry as a young child is in school. On my father who is very close to. Always, encourage me to write these one reasons I. Really became a writer. and. My father at the time. I. Took these poems to my father and said, you know, what do you think of some emotional poetry? These days are is twelve or something. And read it very seriously near he had like opinions of how by the do to this what does that mean? And he he encouraged me to keep writing and when I was fourteen, he was killed. And just just before he was killed, I mean in the day before I had kind of gotten this contract. But because I was a child, I have a guardian sign it and I remember going to my father saying sign this come in a you something bad was happening around us this was Karachi in one, thousand, nine, hundred, hundred. Very politically volatile violently. I gave my father this contracts until you but aside this now. And he said, oh no, you know what's the worst is going to happen. You know I might be arrested. Put it in my bag I'll do it later due to. And he he was arrested was killed and so off two words I changed houses and Oxford University press published it in by his on. Really a year after his killing and and I published in his in his memory. Wow. You've done a great deal of work in his memory and just to give people some context. Wasn't necessarily go the dead direction center that can be exhausting at times. I won't go too far there. But since you referenced the Gist of the audience has context, your father was Mortaza. Your aunt Benazir Bhutto was was the sitting Prime Minister of Pakistan at a time when your father was was murdered you are part of a family that has had a long standing sort of not just privileged I mean really the ruling or Family. In the country for very long time and so that also I think informs your work I think. You journeys after bottles was killed you then lest and you ended up in. Which Syria after that? We were in Syria before let's. Go from Pakistan's theory you. Well, we went my father was at the time I thought it was killed. He was a member of parliament, but he had been in exile before he returned to buy them, and so I was born in. China. And I grew up in. Syria. And then we went back home to by his son. But after my father was killed I did return to Syria briefly just end up in the immediate aftermath because things uncertain into of your child's spent in various places. Then you come to New York under college and then you go in for graduate school. So you you are a global traveler it seems to shave your work. I have a couple of questions about that. But one of the things that I think about when you talk about sort of that being the number of your father is actually Song Blood Sport. which is a memoir again. Something to their hundred memoir something very young. This was a very important memoir. We'll talk about why you will demand more well, sounds of sort I always think my father's a biography of my father's life and murder Y'all than mine and more because I'm only in the book in insofar as I relate to his story. I'm not really in the book otherwise but again in in that period, just before my father was killed in the night before. Two. Nights before he was, he had just turned forty two. You just had a birthday today before count. And we were talking about his life and I said to him. You really must write a book because you've lived through extraordinary thing. My father was a reader and he was a writer and he was a great narrator. And I said you have to do it and he said Oh no no no I can't do that. You do it for me. and when I again, really precocious as I was at. Okay. Great. When should we sit down for an interview? He said, no, no no, you do it for you. Do it often gone and so it was a promise made to my father was to write his story. I never thought I'd have to write about his murder. I thought I would write about the incredible times he lived through and was still living through. But then two days later he was killed and. I sat with me for a long time this this promise and ten years after his assassination I started looking and I said it traveling and finding people into in people. And that old work became sums of leading sword. That book is compelling for many reasons and it's heart wrenching many ways. I could imagine how that could be tortured to right. I could also imagine how that would be to right because you're not. You're talking about the death you're talking about other family members in their in their. In relationships everything that's happening. It's heavy it was incredibly heavy. It was incredibly having a lot of. A lot of people imagined or at least I was always asked the wasn't did I get closure And I didn't think you ever get closer from violence. I, don't think you can survive vitamins and then be closed from it. And Some things were important. If not healing, you know my father was killed in a police operation, it was an extrajudicial killing. and. I was fourteen years old. I had I continue to have a visceral reaction against. Anytime I see I don't feel safe I feel threatened. I was writing songs about seward. I was twenty seven something like that twenty five. And I had to go into new policeman. And I had new policemen who were there at all the streets they sent about one hundred policemen to close the roads they policemen intrigues and sniper positions. And they were policemen who led the murder, but there were also policeman who had just been called to the scene and they didn't know why they were there. And I had to speak to both and the experience of doing that was important for me even if it wasn't healing but was definitely heavy, I have to say it was heavier after the fact that it's heavier having to tour with that took. More than writing, you ever go back and reread better techs I. I don't really because anytime I go back and read an old book I WanNa be right it. Could. Be. Say this, it should have been back. To talk about your writing process. What is your? Maybe it's two different processes for different types of books. But what's your which? Right? I think it's a little different if it's fiction or nonfiction if it's nonfiction, it's much clearer because you know as we were saying, you know what you need to get, and so you will divide things up into research and there'll be a long period where you're just alone in a room with books and the Internet's taking down nose. And then another part of it will be seeking people. You know talking to people interviews. And then the last bit writing. That's an animal Cheer Cup, but when I'm working on fiction. Is Different first of all, because I'm very secretive. About fiction because you don't actually have to go out and talk to people, you don't actually have to bring people can say, could I interview but ex wires? And so it's a private thing that's just mine. When I worked for that because you could be bouncing ideas, you could be saying, Hey, what do you think about this characters? The secretive nature? Yes. Because I think I think fiction has to be protected from light from oxygen from air and I think there's a danger with. Something that's not finished you know. So when you're working on nonfiction I'm sure you find this true you you go out to interview someone and you think you're going to get something from them new something else and it causes you to reroute everything and. I didn't even imagine this. But I think that same thing is wonderful with nonfiction. Disastrous with fiction. Because it's fiction is an act of surrender. It's not really up to you as a writer you go into it thinking it's up to you but you actually have no control and you kind of have to let yourself go to follow the story. And if you tell a friend something and they go audibly think that's a good idea. That'd be heartbreaking. It's too dangerous. So I don't do that. I'm very quiet and very secretive. skulk around for years. You know people asked me what are you doing own business that? Not Much and you're actually developing narratives and characters. You, devote the characters like, do you write your through the character development or do you are you sort of imagining backstory for the character for you can get the page? Well, that's a really good question actually with the runaways. I knew the basic of Monty and sunny's backgrounds. I knew where they came from I kind of knew what they were feeling. But it was only when I was writing, I started to see their parents. Or that I started to hear their parents that I started to see their friends and so that would change and I'd have to tweak things along the way. But the particulars I think you discover new find yourself I mean I know this sounds. Really odd but. I think you do find yourself surprised by your own actor along the way because. They. Excise Weird. Amount of free will for people that you've made up. I was GonNa ask you to hurt twenty. Mars and talk about that before as a non and novelist it's hard for me to understand what that means. But the characters eventually become their own people in your in your university may surprise you some time type. How do you navigate that writer? You have to sometimes just changed course. I think in do I think? I think that's one of the deliberating and incredibly difficult things about fiction is that you have to stop in the middle of apart youth thought you charted out and abandoned. From the beginning and it's really great for your ego because it's such a good reminder that we control nothing. Nothing, is up to us. But you do so with the runaways. I mean the couple of big things but I can't tell you. But with the runaways for example I, I knew that Sonny was going to have. A very seductive cousin old all's. Who was going to? was going to interest him in this idea of running away but I didn't really know what was going to do. Once he'd seduced his cousin into radicalism I that came to me somewhere in the middle. There are some novelists school here what you just said. Awesome. ASPIRING NOVICE WHO? Get there, how do I get to a point where I running a character and I? I've relinquished control such a way that the character can surprise me as the writer. It seems to me that you have to interest circle kind of zone. How do you? What's how do I get? There's tears. You. All didn't appear until the fourth or fifth draft the book. The moment I saw it just went like. Just, went into place I, thought. This is who I've been missing. What I wrote hundreds of pages before and I rewrote hundreds of pages before I got to arm and they think there's something very voluble about being a writer especially in the times we live in, which is everything we live through whether it's the internet or our ideas of success or ambition whatever requires speed you know you have to do X. by the time you're Y you have to get this by the time that happened. And actually that is a fatal quality in writing. If you rush, you will kill everything you know nothing will grow to the point of surprise or wonder or beauty. Were dread rash you have to go slowly. In multiple drafts, you've redrafting more with fiction and nonfiction. Oh I mean a thousand times more with win fiction. Yeah. I enjoy rewriting I. think that's where the real work is. It is in polishing and one more process question. Do you write every day when you're reading a book? Are you reading every day or do you like Ben's right like ten hours Monday and then you walk away from it for days at a time every day you have to do every day I think is sustain your thoughts whether they're imagined or they're real you need to work every day. But. I do always find that somewhere after every six months or four or five months you do kind of hit a wall. And you get stuck, and at that point, I just step away and I'll. I'll take a little break and wait for things to. Be from me. Who Influence you Abbas's father played a big role but Benjamin books, you read our authors in your case ought also poets who influenced you for an influences you now. Every book has its own set of influences because there's people who. Direct, you and then there are general. So I would say generally the writers James Baldwin is just I think the most beautiful writer. In the English language and you are a students on his page in a whatever he's writing about. I think Tony Morrison Mallard so much at all the possibilities of writing from what to the Morrison. Poets I think poets are always wonderful Nizara bunny. Beautiful Syrian poet Mahmoud the reach. And I think all the poets that I that I love and read. Remind me constantly about language. But with this book with the runaways, it was particular stuff that I read. That was exciting. Inspiring. Before it came to me the idea of this book, I just read the road by Cormac McCarthy. And something about it unsettled or disturbed me in that good way. The thing that disturbs me about that book was was the father and the son you know. On this March, it's never gonNA end. What it means to be walking towards nothing that really jolted me. So I was kind of thinking about that and then I read this Naipaul. Naipaul Nevada. It's in the collection in a free, state? About a man woman who has to take a journey together. That was also kind of. That dot I rent on drafts seven or eight or whatever but it did help me find soon. And then there's a great another great book which covered recommend to your listeners book colds. Ours are the streets by send GPS a hotel, which was the first book I read about someone who becomes radicalized hadn't read that in in novel form at the time I was writing and he does it really elegantly and. Idly that was a great. Influence. OPOSITE books a few of those we will add to the list on our page, but also I encourage everyone all the books that we've mentioned today because they really do shape we are as readers and writers of before you go I'm going to ask you to play a game that I make all of my guests play. I have to let you know ahead of time that. You WanNa. Hate me afterward. Okay tortures against. Game is called. By, Barwick or burn it rule. Named Books One, you can buy when borrow and the third. You GotTa Burn Okay I'll preface this to my listeners always do that. We don't really believe in burning books and we love all the books in the world that are good but. You have to buy one bar one in Bern when you ready. Okay. Here the three books this is how you lose her. Do. You know the. Second Book the Fire Next Time James Baldwin. The third book and here's where you really going to kill me. The gets. Oh. The worst game ever Hudson. It's the worst game ever. Can I the connection and pretend? Amaral runaway right. Here you? Drive for Okay I'm, GonNa buy the bulb him why widebody gate. Because I can remember as I remembering reading. That book my skin is standing on inch. It's a stunning book that altered how I felt the world stood when I read it so that I will buy. I'M GONNA borrow. This is how you lose her really. Because I. Love I love that Book and I think Juno is the really. Incredible writer and what he doesn't language is beautiful and I'll tell you why I'm going to borrow it is because I think there's something really valuable that he does on his books. where he writes and he will include Spanish without ever. Explaining what it means. And I love that because we've all had to read you know. Greek. Words and French words books just we're just supposed to know what they mean. As. Though that's the kind of standard. The world's built on and Juno does that for Spanish and I I think that's important and I'm going to have to the great gatsby even though I really liked it. When I read it as a young person I thought I for the record I thought you would by Baldwin Borrow Fitzgerald in Burgundy s because I have a sentimental attachment to the Greek gets because I remember you saying it was like your I love. It was but. You forced me to burn something and. And I like it for sentimental reasons rather than like hard like sole reasons. So. Really what is the great, Gatsby. About a guy who likes girl, they can't tell her you know then she died. So whatever it's not it doesn't say something magnificent about the times we live in. Is a fair those bars assessment. Weekly I went from loving the great gatsby to burning it. Radicalized at my My job here's. How can people find Jones social media? I'm F-. Bhutto. F. B. H. U. T.. O.. On twitter and on instagram. Thank you so much for joining us. We'll house we can talk to you again when you write your next book was probably be like poetry memoir if feature no. We're waiting for your your bookmark. Yes. I'm ready novel. I'M GONNA call you whereby. Anytime is so thank you so much. Thank you Mike. Thank you for listening McCarthy and Wilkes, mentioning on Instagram with the handle coffee and books show. Also, you can buy all the books that have been discussed here on bookshop dot org slash over Bobby's, or you can go to bobby's dot com that's. B. O. B. ES DOT COM.

writer James Baldwin Karachi Somalia Sonny Monte Montes Monte Iraq murder Benazir Bhutto Joshi colts US Cormac McCarthy Portsmouth Syria professor
How Princess Diana Found Her Voice & Unleashed Her Inner Power With Stewart Pearce

My Seven Chakras

58:26 min | 8 months ago

How Princess Diana Found Her Voice & Unleashed Her Inner Power With Stewart Pearce

"Mizo Jakarta's three sixty to the Senate chaplain swirling for two seasons energy position. Toronto on the base of the spine to the crown of the head for thousands of ancient wished has been can stop from master to disciple. What are the functions of these energy sentiments and cook these chuck? Help you unlike your destiny and find your purpose. Welcome to my center chocolates and now your host. Jay wasn't action tribe. Eeg here host and founder of my seven chuckers myself and Chuck Dot Com. The show where we help you expedience effortless healing awakening and abundance in today's episode. We talk about many topics including Princess Diana her life and legacy artifacts your wife how to develop that magnetic present and out to step into your transformational journey before diving in. I'd like to remind you that I have recently released a twenty four page. Pdf document that outlines some of my favorite ways to raise my wife rations and feel better almost immediately to grab that free download. Good my seven juxtapose dot com forward slash. Feel better now. That's my seven chocolate dot com forward slash. Feel better now all right. So let's bring on our guest today. Stuart Pearce Stewart. Are you ready to inspire always? Aj always as wonderful. Stuart Pearce is eight reverted global voice coach who has worked with change makers and celebrities for over forty years. He was the head of voice at the Webber. Douglas Academy London From Nineteen. Eighty to ninety seven helped pioneer Shakespeare's globe theatre as master wise between ninety seven. Two Thousand and then an escort luminaries. Such as Eddie Read Main Matthew. Good you bond will mark rylance. Emilia Clarke Margaret Thatcher Mo Mowlam Benazir Bhutto Diana Princess of Wales Marianne Williamson. Who has been a guest on our show and and the London two thousand twelve Olympic bid to name just a few and his latest book which we are going to speak about. Today is Diana the Voice of change so as you can imagine. It's going to be a totally epic episode which you can't afford to miss. Make sure that you stay till the very end so once again stuart welcome to our show. Thanks a lot for joining me or it's a pleasure. Thank you for inviting me. Great so as you May. Let's start from the very beginning. Let's talk about your Childhood Howard things in your house ordered as you're going up power things in my household Or how things inside me. I guess if you could start with your household and then within yourself are the other the other way at art. I suppose I spoke to the experience dichotomy. Meaning I would to the experience of contrast because as I became conscious I was aware of touching into seeing hearing the multidimensional uniforms and so I spoke about what I was experiencing and with the Gli the innocence and the wonder of the of the of the innocent young child too soon discover that nobody else was seeing what I was seeing an idol would have. Maybe I should just go on saying what I'm saying what I'm saying. But then I soon discovered that there was so much disapprobation so much disapproval around me but I decided that I needed to shut up and so that was challenged by. I was both opinion privileged situation. My parents were my father. Particularly was a royal servant working for the Queen and the Duke member so there was this privilege as it same time. My mother was a very grounded individual. Full of unconditional love. So she was my Buffa. The world was in contention with me but my mother just expressed unconditional love so I was mentally fortunate however at school I found it very challenging because this was all post-second World War. This is the early fifties so we didn't know then about Aspe- goes all Tennessee. Zia Or dyslexia. And I. I believe that I would borderline asperger's I certainly know that I was sentenced vetted so I saw around when it came to reading it I. It was just impossible. I couldn't I couldn't see a way of being able to comprehend the notation on the page. It will all I saw jagged lines and I tried and I tried but it was simply on zestful so I was branded an idiot so with the nature of what I shared initially and with the latter part of what I've just suggested I decided I'd shut up so I just up the two years myself and my brother spoke. Fool me easier odor and what that did was to give me an extraordinary opportunity of observing hearing students so I became aware of a power of words by not having to admit them. I became aware of observing of hearing and seeing words on the way that they affected human consciousness. So that's where the Johnny really started. Now that's a very adult perspective of an immensely sensory experience. But that's me making sense of what was really going on I was troubled by troubled by schooling. I used it as a platform to develop appurtenant averick. I got by by my wits. Go by by Huma. I got by by being clever in draw in the drama classic. Certain there's something about your voice is something about your voice is something about your voice. I know I sat and he learned to read because my mother engineer t of sticking let's put Stewart into a church choir so I actually. I learned to read through Sop through song. I learned to read through singing hymns psalms anthems in other words I learned to read through flow trying to read just through speech. I wasn't interested. I wasn't introduced rather to flow. But as soon as one same of course the breath becomes the flow and the duration of each note becomes part of the flow and therefore adds to the ecstasy of the fact that I was singing sacred songs and this very very pronounced awareness of the divine. So I so angels around me. I saw holy ones around me I was both shop as Christian So that's that's really what challenge to it was like you know. GotTa gotta thanks for shedding and this really paints a beautiful picture about your childhood the fact that you had difficulties in school and that you were not able to I guess read like you mentioned the way others did but then sound in music guarded. Dutch with you and the wonderful part was at your mother provided under unconditional love which makes a huge difference. So you said that you were seeing things and hearing things and feeling things right. So do you remember your first sort of spiritual slash mystical expedients or was it. That was like I was aware of an extraordinary lives And this slide. I mean I was very small child. I must have been in the crib Light was full of love and within it was a hunting sound which I would now into the continuous sounding of home. Reply realize that it must have been my mother humming but because of hero not because she was actually really quite innocent as self aware of the world. I'll be seen she just moved through the Second World War But there was a quality of purity equality of grace according to of adoration about so. I believe that that's who it was. But because she was who she was I believe she was a vessel for the divide because I often saw through her her linguistic was always one of love and generosity and compassion and empathy. So I would see these extraordinary waves of light around her and I would see beings of light attached to what was being emitted from Habbaniya which was very different from my father was. My father was a war hero who had risen through the ranks and become this royal servant and he was frustrated because he saw her child his second son who was feminine creative and my dad was just a wilder to very frightened so when he saw me in a rhetoric because I wouldn't constantly wonder what I would just do this but out of course what I was seeing was something that nobody else was. Seeing I was seeing force I was seeing angels. I was seeing elemental varies. I was seeing stuff. A Dead Pita Moran. Because I you know my homes were in Royal Palaces that were very very very old and I mean therefore voices. I was fascinated by all these voices of people of beings and lots of stories about the beings soul which I didn't know what they were but now I've defined who they works. I remember them absolute. So yeah but so. My father's energy was soon aesthetic point which means across over the census. No there. I was seeing his anger but it was like broken glass coming towards me in the air and so I would do. I would do this. You know protect myself. Nicholas was considered to be mad because of doing that. It was just as you can see the energy. I is not broken glass coming when nitric gray. It wasn't these waves of Pastel Khalas. It was this hard shots. Gloves Broken Blah. I mean that's for a six five. Six seven zero that's terrifying. You'll father shouts it. You knew all that happens is that the energy becomes broken glass and it was the era and pangs into your energy field and then disappears but because you feel as though you've been hit you think that's actually what's happening in our feels when people are aggressive angry violent. Just imagine what is not being a sinister you to in the middle of a wall in the middle of battle. It's just all you see as Hora because you see what's taking place to people's bodies that we become so dull that we don't experience if I said it reminded me of the fact that sometimes babies and young children you'll catch them staring at the wall right or maybe standing into oblivion or standing at the Sky Rabies. Staring at you are staring through. You are standing around you. It just goes to show that they might be in touch or they might be seeing things like like you did and like all of us do in childhood but then we tend to forget them so thanks a lot for pointing that that it's not. It's not bad to daydream. It's in fact it should be encouraged. my question is your about years school. How did you get started in the field of choice? Like out of that begin with the only thing that I could do. I mean people saying there's some but there's some you you can't do this you'll nothing this but there's something about your voice and so what I I was. I was so full of fear and insecurity about that. I couldn't do what they want to do. But when little moment of approval what I saw the lights went to onset. I didn't stay around with the disapprobation I went to Wolf here brutal. And if somebody says something about your voice but you don't even know what they're talking about what you go towards that light. At least I did and what that did was. I proved that there was something about my voice. I did what it was. I mean people are still saying to me. There's something about your voice. I don't believe it's coming to know I believe it's them to receive for you to receive that. There's you know people say that I have a purring sound in my voice. I have a healing. The other day said mad when you speak it like the bird sings. You speak so tool so that that's what people receive anyway. So how did I legitimate is that how did I make it conventional while the simplest thing to do is to become part of a drama drama class at school which I did and people saying. Oh my goodness you're an actor you're again and I thought. Oh I'm an actor. Okay so I'll go towards identify what else I am. I so I went towards that and trained as an actor teacher and then immediately went into mainstream theatre as an actor through seventeen and of course that was extraordinary because I was with people who are much more open minded I mean actors tend to be rugs in back of bonds. You know so. We're very open to the possibility of multidimensional nece and multifaceted. Unless you know there are less to booze and strictures. Of course they can be a lot of ego but I was very fortunate in the Seventies. I'm an I was in the Royal Shakespeare Company alongside people at Judi dench. The Young Judi dench the young Patrick Stewart the young in mcallen and these very extraordinary people. They're humble. They gracious that true people who may have egos but they don't brandish them in front of anybody else when they're feeling insecure so. I was very fortunate. You know that I had to a great beginning And that'll that went through to the end of the seventies and I was. I was in New York working in New York can doing quite well and then go to major costing which was a film the movie to be made in Los Angeles. And Hey guess what? I got the constant and so I was moving from New York where I being two years working together to Los Angeles because the contract was extended and in the middle of packing up the appointment to New York in Manhattan the telephone rang and I moved into a surreal experience. A psychic experience where everything moves in slow motion and it was my office saying what are you doing what you know what I'm doing. I'm moving to Los Angeles and he said. Are you sitting down? You need to know but mom has cancer. She has three months to live what you do and so in a split second. I decided to let the movie go into go back to the United Kingdom and US my Mama which I did for year and then she paused and that was a mystical experience when she went but of course after a year were messing her. It was a question of I lost my agent. Las My manager hadn't been working for. Yeah just been nothing I felt this was very important. Our Father had died three years prior. They grabbed quite young. She was only fifty nine when she died and it was just. She was such an extraordinary sacred. Being to me. We had huge so connection but I thought it was very very important but of course when she paused. It was very unusual. Because I had didn't know what my life was going to be about and in the middle of that experience I had a mystical experience where she came to me and said would be. Well all will be well. Okay all will be well wishes lovely but when will it be well then? Two days later the telephone rang. And that's when the hold of my life changed because a game. Everything moved into slow motion and here was the voice direct to the James Bay Company. With who might work saying what are you doing? I haven't seen for a long time and I went on not doing anything I've being this. At which point she offered an exclusive explicit in civil. What are you going to do? And I said I don't know. And then in the next breath she said come and work for me admits this woman. I want to work with. Who's just taken over the Consumption Pasi? I'd have to work without. I'm a diehard socialist. You can work with and said ways. I was walking is Downing Street and Margaret Thatcher my client. That's where it started so you see what I'm really talking about. The wheel of destiny has turned very considerably in my favor to lead me to a path of devotion to lead me. Lead me to a proper Truth and to lead me to a profit of helping others impala self while I use the instrumentation of my own being much loved through as much truth through much crocs ills as I can to allow that person to experience the power of so radiating through the whole of their beings if actively. That's what I do. Well thanks for explaining that to us and a loved story that you shared how once event led to the other. And then you distrusted in your destiny in your purpose and you did. What is right I that is you. Give your time your engine. You love your mother and then the call came. You're with a love that story that you shared though from Maga attach alerts warrant to princess. Diana Ward inspired you to write this latest book of yours about Princess Diana we we we sort of talked about Twenty three years ago before she died in the sense of that. We were both so excited about working together. We had confidential relationship. I thought this was very important so when I was asked when Diana asked me to work with I said yes I will but under one condition that this is totally confidential and it was held to be confidential it was it was almost secret And the reason why I did this was a because I wanted to help Diana on a the incandescent of also secondly. She was surrounded by circus of activity. Which I really didn't won't be involved in which was to do with this. Was the last two years alive site with much to do with a host substance divorcing Charles and the disapprobation royal family. The approbation of the press suck is of the Paparazzi and also the fact that she had worked with people like me Before and they had been completed her their work with her undergone to the daily tabloids would so good story for thousands of pounds and so she was deeply scarred by the trial. And I saw that this comfortable Janati would be In a would be sacrosanct. However what was interesting? We'll sir is that we talked about. The work is being so significant that perhaps it would be something that I would communicate at some point but that was never fully formalized and then then I wasn't conversation about four years ago with my literary agent. Who said will what will you know? What would you like to write next? Because I known as by published for other books prior to this and they done they're well in the world within the mind body spirit industry because mostly about self empowerment about sound healer ship and also about A group of angels that I work with who came to me and edgy seven. So I've written books about these and so we were talking about well with canaries another angel. She's really won't it? Publishes rejected the idea by saying oh does he have to write another book about angels. They're so many about angels whereas thirty years ago there were very few goals about him and things have changed and so my agent said to me. We'll wait many you wrote you worked with Diana and I said yes but I'm never writing a book about that and she said no no way. Some of the book that you'll right would not be a chronicle. It will not be a dire. It will not be a kiss. Antao tell your book and in that Moment Diana came in and I saw the whole of the book in front of me indeed. I saw the whole of object in front of me because the book is just the beginning other projects the time launching called the Diana Hart Path and the Diana Path will be a major pathway of experience. Will as to come together in communion so that we can share a monarchy kindred spirit About how we can move from on love or fear into love. And thirdly support the extraordinarily revolution of consciousness taking place particularly in relation to the aroused divide set. I believe that that Diana is Mazda's will mistress minding all of this at angel vast minority which is why the cover of the book had to be the way but it is. This is not Diana as she was Mrs Dot as she is in these extraordinary angelic colored. So then the beginning reasons taught so the question is. How did you meet Dan Doctors about how did that connection? And maybe why would you brought into to co-chair or to work with there was at that time Very famous restaurant in the district of Knightsbridge in central London which is always been referred to his very salubrious area And Diana had very close connection with this restaurant her name was Mara Bernie and the restaurant was signed. Renzo an so Mara had dean immensely kind to me. She sent many major clients. My which I met Benazir Bhutto through Mara Mara was was have food was extraordinary. The restaurant was considered to be a place where many notable people could go and be private. The story goes also which he told me that in the sixties and seventies when the Rolling Stones. Donna concert that they may jagged. Cool her at three o'clock in the morning. Samar we need your past and she get up on. We'll pass the boys for persons who was immensely psychic and so she said to me Stewart. There's somebody I want you to work with. Who really needs to and this was in one thousand nine hundred five when Diana was about to divorce Charles in fact what had happened. Is that the BBC Panorama programme that. Diana did where she said. There were three people in this marriage and other important things about the royal family. The Diana look to that video was was rather appalled by what she saw. She thought that she was submissive. That she was subservient that she was looking everybody over troop through this suggestion so she realized that she wanted to improve her presence and her voice. Ah That's what I do. I train actors public. Personalities members royalty celebrities at CEO's politicians to really become the magnificent vision of themselves by living through the entirety of their bodies and by reducing sound from the very core of MPM. That has the situation. Thanks a lot for providing and with recreated what I was talking about. Forty this confidential relationship so You know what the the first thing I need to do. Needed to do was to introduce her to the consciousness of what presence? How presents can be vote and it was obviously something. She had a very natural ability for but my job was actually a was to make her wear to make a consciously aware of what she was doing unconsciously so that she could use that as Croft not in some analysis paralysis fashion just simply because there she was moving for being immensely natural. Easy searchable loving person into immensely formal situations where there are one hundred fifty cameras flashing in your face and Llosa expected to be composed and beautiful and easy and Gracious. And you'll meeting people. That can often be immensely demanding from an energetic point of view so in other words. How can we be most natural in really unnatural situation? Which is if you think about it. That's what actors have to do with my classical acting. So how do you? How do you go into Phil onto a film set at five o'clock in the morning and you meet somebody? But you've only just met there be law you're surrounded by one hundred fifty people in the crew and you then have to leap into bed with that person. Then kiss them in though they have techniques being able to be completely naturally very unnatural situations. And so what I've done of the is is to take the notion the the imagination the invention what these cross skills role of art which of is quite simply just living the greatest vision of yourself but but but through particular filter and they were many and of course they have all been included within the book Diana Before Challenge. What's interesting is that? The the title of the Book. If folks the substance of the fact that Diana in off her beauty and simplicity detonated this vast charge in the world so she would probably slain destined as an anointed one to bring in something very warmer as we saw in her life but also very specifically at her death art. Thanks a lot where we was the thirty first nineteen ninety-seven where we are so ninety. Seven was that the day when when when she passed away is that the day that was the day she died. I remember I mean I. I was at home but I was watching BBC. Watching the telecast I was at home I was in Mumbai Yep and I was not too deep into the back of the story. I knew that Princess Diana was somebody Martin and that she was very benevolent alert for society. But I do remember That you know her debt was was huge right. I mean a lot of people. There was a lot of telecast all over the word different news channels especially the situation where the car accident took place that was being repeated again and again dial is although I had this question in my mind right who was lady Diana. What was she going through personally? That not a lot of people know about publicly outage. Her influence impact her two sons in things like that so in a whip. Our conversation was predestined. Because I had these questions in my mind and I really wanted to ask you and one thing in particular you written in your book. Is that got. My attention is You said that. At the deciding moment off her divorce from Jaws Diana began to comprehend and expediency appreciation the gratitude and all of those. She met everywhere. The doctor was aboard this phenomenon. Because it happens you say that at the moment offer divorce she began to experience and comprehend the appreciation the gratitude and the off does that. She met everywhere. So what about the divorce sort of led to these changes so prior to that time Diana was consumed with trying to learn a three D. language being sensitive being an M. Path. She was sensory overloaded most of the time and therefore had a really uneasy conversation with life in Three D. but in that Moment Hustle Body Awakens. Now she was aware of Spirit. She was aware of so but in that moment her so body awaken so considerably but she traunstein did the three teen three day problems of materialism and became aware all the sensation of destiny awakening infiltrations of this prize through her consciousness through the institutions through a unit through her presentiment to Ha- soppy through sensitivity Wishing would reveal. I don't believe I'm ever going to be the queen of England but I would like to be the queen of everybody's hearts etcetera etcetera now. I mean meeting mother Theresa. We flew to Delhi but Four commodities was not well. She was in She'd been taken to Rome however be the third meaning the other nuns took Diana into the chapel private play and they all sang to her and Diana said it was the most moving experience where she felt the holy spirits. She felt shocked. He come into. And that was the dis- deserted Ryan moment. That was a deciding moment. I believe that she became a vessel for shock. Dave's see so the exam that to what you were sharing about your awareness because you were a child you were boy G. Paused Yep told the wave of shock t hit. It's recorded five point. Nine billion people at was more that was more than two thirds of the population planet during the seven days. Do in other words Hot Chocolate. The junta was hit by the full of that wave which courses we know is a totally failed. Undestood comprehended energy within the great saints of Hinduism and Buddhism arising from the mother. That's what awakened people. Now of course walks interesting just to skip forward. Is that right now? Where you're in seeing another way look shocked to awaken the fact that severe imbalances in the world and we need to bring the divine male in the divine feminine into into consulting to equillibrium. Which is why we're seeing these amazing women stepping forward and often being angry about the injustices that they received from men. Our own is stepping forward in freedom and in love and in celebration of their compassion. It sits at center and we're seeing many women takeover very powerful positions in the world. Mariane is a case in point. Isn't it because this? She was running full Democratic nomination to become president. She stepped away from that. We know but what she was. What she's achieved was remarkable because she's awaiting millions of people to the possibility of how we can awaken to the substance of love in the field politics and much more than that. There was something huge about Diana that she can dismiss. Likely Reverend the thanks for shedding that story the way you described her story and the way he wrote in it in your book it feels as if that it was a spiritual awakening for her. There are a lot of people are going and you know. Like you said intuitively. She had these nudges from time to time that she was meant for something. Huge to create a large impact to influence people's lives around word. But it feels as if the hit of the divorce. Open up something about her. That allowed her to see the light. Like you said she broke through the treaty metrics so to speak and she went beyond that And I'm not sure if you would agree but does a break up or a divorce are like a heartbreak. Have that effect where you have a spontaneous spiritual awakening and you suddenly begin to see the truth all around you because from my conversations the lot of my listeners. Two thousand nine hundred was way challenging a lot of people. A lot of unexpected break of breakup are divorces are heartbreaks. The vent two thousand twenty is way different is it? It's like an awakening a new beginning. You're turning a brand new patients. So what are your thoughts? I mean many comes cosmic cycles attempting to appoint a completion. The French and also coming to a point of beginning you know and as a result of that we we are Planeta of species Where where being affected by these cosmic cycles and as a result of course we know that there is something very extraordinary taking place on this planet. One of my points of awakening Just to give it. A station was nineteen eighty-seven during August of nineteen ninety. Seven which has appeared. Cool the harmonic convergence and within the main civilization. Who are considered to be the remnants of Atlantis they live. They live within mets of America in association with the Aztec and we'll see what the cokie engines they said on that coins of astrological window opening in August just as we have astronaut who windows opening. Now these the super moon that we just experienced just Seven days ago was just monumental in terms of the release of energy to support a transcendent level of consciousness to awaken so that we don't have to wake up through desperation we wake comes in spirit so But just a stray Shin back to August. One thousand nine hundred seventy an astrological grantline opening the heavens and the man said that one hundred forty thousand. Rabo light warriors would be awake. How I believe that many believe that they chose me as one I it this was not conscious but I had a miraculous divine chance mission at we cans and glass degree. When I saw these angels and I've been working with the angels sense. I believe that one hundred forty thousand people were awakened and these effectively. All the mature light workers that we'd seen work for the last twenty seven years. What is actually more than that? I was in his needs. This U. S. awakening people or co awakening because we awaken we listed clean through creation away from what's happening in the guy. What has awakening in the guy we awaken to. If we all sensitive to and Sir the interesting thing is that when we go through these periods of trauma that we suddenly reevaluate we take moral inventory and we realized we you know we we. We move through regressions an island guild and we work on why I created this. If we're sensible if so awakens because often we see that we choose desperation to awaken also rather than insurrection esther. I love what you said there. That break-up or that divorce that heartbreak or that trauma is an opportunity for us to realize and recognize that what was happening around us is nothing but our imagination pushed outwards and if it is our imagination which hardware send you can change your impressions. You're giving to your subconscious mind and thereby change your reality so thanks for sharing that with us. So what was dying alike as a person. Why was she admired by people? All over as I've shared the my expedients I was a young kid back there so I wasn't able to comprehend all the information and what was happening around the world. But what was she like as a person yes? I think our listeners sake. I think really what you're describing is the you'll show was asleep that you know that you'll also work at another point it the chronology missing connection and that was fine when you're awake where many people nothing wrong with that. That's your Johnny. That's your destiny. That's your INCON- national trajectory whereas people were blasted open by that chanting. So what was Diana lie? Diana was the sweetest most loving caring most Bonnie us in that. I've ever had the grace to me. That tied ever been honored to to to meet rail in human terms but slee robust in spiritual Tom's into bind term because the love was so uncondemned. Unconditional Love was the thing that pulled through her. Love led her to ordinariness lob letter to joy a love letter to freedom her love language it also initially let it towards incarceration as we said. Well she was the prisoner the prisoner of Windsor to some extent And of course you know we have to put it into the contract. The consciousness of people's what? We're moving through this. Time is a giant step away from patriarchal oppression but Guyana was brought up experiencing patriarchal restraint and so one of the features a Patriot author restraint. I know this so deep within me is that they know much better than we do that. The people in charge so much better and that we have to be deferential we have to be reverential we have to be an all and then we suddenly realize now that even though these people were fulfilling powerful positions and rights of office and look very impressive then afterwards they were getting backstage and to be crude buggering the boys and so we beginning to realize what about this needs to change in other words agency of up. Transparency is now emerging will us to be the totality of? What the human being is concerned. So she was. She was captured by Patriarchal restraint which led towards great pain and booming and three suicide attempts and years and years and years of feeling deficient feeling disempowered. Feeling too shy feeling frightened. The one of the things that I needed to do was to not convince her but to allow her to see that her. Insure wition her empathic. Wisdom so fad. Fiber was just as powerful as any academic if not possibly more powerful because what is allows is an incandescent aware of being totally within the boundary robin just being locked in the head. I mean one of the things that you were talking about earlier is the Patriarchy is that you need to do do do do do do do do do do do. And so what have this? We just live in the heads you say because of the doing area and we have told in academia that we have to become really Sabrina Burley brilliant and we need to have opinions that can compete with other people's opinions but it has nothing to do with both hardest. And so what's happening? I believe if it wasn't on this happens when we go through trauma that we stopped doing it because we come we come to realize Asian. Whatever we're doing is not working as we enter into a state of being when we entered state of being. That's where we start hearing the voice of God as when we get inside and we need de-stress so we find stones often where exhausted after the draw of the trauma and so it was we all know after storm comes this huge calm so he feels stillness and then we begin to realize that. There's something quite extraordinary happening in the students but was met a happening in the action or the action can be really fun in. Who's to see some of the great creatives on our planet on what they're creating see that it can be fun and the two needs go hand in hand I believe the being is the Feminine. The masculine but you know. I speak of the West and man who was never able to do what they wanted me to do and I was always being punished for not being to do what they wanted me to do. And what I did was to force myself around Pagans With Square. Ho and as soon as I woke up to this I became a revolutionary. Even though I've been a conventional educate the much in my life as you were saying to my buyer November I. I set people's I sat people's inspiration on fire. I feel Pales. I didn't feel buckets of water in a considering the human beings being a bucket. I'd have filled them on. I'm actually annotating a phrase from From James Joyce said I. I am not prepared to fill buckets of water. And he said Pales Pales full of water. I'm Gay to light fines in people's consciousness. Now you spoke about the idea and I love the imagery. But he said there's a storm and then there's a calm after the storm in the gum you experienced that still is and then after that there is a sound but then the sound is different. Sound right so talk to us about the signature note that sounded you speak about. What is the signature? North of the signature. Sound at a person can develop as did Business Dan. Wage unique some which is the sum of our so and in terms of finding the extent. Bob Bogle Rag. We each have a note or sound notice a frequency which makes the resonance which is the the energy of voices that we each have a center to outrage. And when we sound this we literally sing the song of so when we sound this. We come from the very center of all beings when we sound this. We developed a magnetic voice when we signed this we are charged with the Voice of change. Which is the voice of love? It's not the voice of clever ideas. You're saying it's not about that. Which is I mean. I make this sound. That sounds a little bit with doing this. But this is the currency of the Western World. Which is born of doing doing doing doing doing doing doing and also the fact that we live in machine that environments that create a lot of noise. There's noise on the outside resumes noise in our heads or our hearts because after all we're deeply troubled by the fact that we're not able to do what they say we should be doing and so crumble the frightened and then we engage in guilt and shame and all the other stuff so what we do is we just sit up here. We compete with other people. We want to what we're saying. That waiting to Interruptus Because on and on and on and on isn't it a relief when I suddenly to this it it sure is because you are an artist speaking from your head. It seems like dreamy channeling. Not just your hearts but also the elaborations are needing from your heart in your whole body which makes a difference and you have obviously found your signature soured. Now one of my personal goal is to be that leader admired leader that people You know look up to in a respectful way and sometimes this goal of being that leader can be very abstract right so what are some key qualities of leader that has that magnetism are at people admire Adan Start off the you know. Look up to so to speak. Well this is very interesting As a question it was very interesting because we are at a time. Where when nizing that. A new form of leadership new pounded the ship. Needs to people. And this is a conversation that's being had in most intelligent zones around obstinate and indeed. I was just listening this morning to The Wonderful Robert eiger speak. Who is the CEO? Walt Disney and then one of the most powerful businessmen on the planet who's reached a point of maturity And he was speaking about exactly this substance but in my own experience what makes this is number one or fantastic okay number two kindness to others number three honesty number four empathy compassionate rather list goes on and on and on and on but essentially what we're doing is talking about love with anticipates balloons through myself. Let myself to an extent not some overly negative bang way but I love myself as a child of God. I love myself as a vessel of the divine love myself that I'm here Very simply to optimize my creativity of novel joy and effectively. It doesn't really matter what I do to achieve that. As long as I'm optimizing my creativity. People love enjoy now. There is the first big problem because most people don't know what their purpose is. Just very simple upheld is to optimize on creativity pulled above endure. Because we've been brainwashed into believing that our purpose is to fulfil strong vision that some academic will some had Mazda. All some deer Ferrara has given us in a moment tall. Torrential outpouring made mad merite rage because of their frustration. With the fact that we're not achieving something because we're just as Adamant as adolescence bewildered by being sensory overloaded by all the information in other words we're wanting to do is just be but you're not supposed to be you're supposed to do. There's a huge challenge now Listening to someone like Robert Argue has wait this man. He has a lot of weight. He has a lot of gravity. And you know what's interesting? Is that when we talk about sovereigns when we talk about a lead of industry when we talk about a rate human being? They all have wait. They all have grounded. They all have gravitas. So where does this gravitas come from or is it these qualities that you just mentioned accumulation of these qualities? Here grab yourself gig. Get into your body getting your breath in the question rights at the beginning of our conversation. Do you enjoy inspiring people. You feel you're in spite of course because I bring that day. Breath means in spy into inspire inspire DOT but only of divine influence. It's Danica but of course we we. All breathe is the first independent action as we shoot at loves birth canals or a tell Ya Bandai and then of course we breathe out when we move into the death experience but in between none of us are conscious of our breathing and so when during his teaming people into our breath of what a great leader becomes aware of his or her brass. And what happens? Is that the body become fence. You allies by the beauty of the brass and automatically our voices drop him. I mean this is exactly what I did for Margaret Thatcher. Orders years ago in one thousand nine hundred eighty because she had a voice. That was sort of this up a middle class sound that she had thrived because she had been at Oxford. And this is why. If you were a woman at that point game to Oxford Cambridge you had to speak thus but of course it had no weight whatsoever even though she shared this remarkable intellect to what I did was to give her. This feeling of herb. Bring up the brass so that she could feel the grounded noth- and we would literally I get into the Commons back into the House of Commons. Very late at night in the house of the parliament and you know in session was over and we would. We would play. I mean fortunately Margaret and he slept four hours a night so she was wide awake she was mature human being on that level and she would literally bow the sound across across the room towards me. It's a big chamber. It's sixty seventy feet in was something in length And so this is something that when you think about all great people hats went the Great Act to have this quality of local presence as we say is. It's not enough to be on not to be that is the question is not up here. It's to be on not batches whether to burn the mind supple slings things and arrows of outrageous. It means that we're communicating. Thanks for shedding. What you shed. It reminded me of the movie. The king's speech right. Where what you say how you said. Your Voice Your magnetism. Your how you communicate. What is in your mind? It makes such a huge difference in how especially the common crowd of people. Perceive you right and that's where a coach really helps a dice alert for sharing their wonderful story. So what sort of influence did Diana have on her? Two Sons William and Prince Harry Well Property Ons that question. Can I mean we all know what influence she had pretty obvious that they are too remarkable man who experienced an unbelievably traumatic occasion when she paused. everybody can seem very easily that her love for him by coach. About unconditional was just consummates They're two very extraordinary man and I feel that we're seeing that right now. I mean you were away from Harry would do consulting right now right being in Vancouver the obviously leaner that situation has been blown out proportion the British press saying one thing which is all falsehoods. What's happening in? That's just creating substance all great arguments through social media and through setting Nelson newspapers or whatever but actually that's not what's going on a tool because even just imagine. Harry gained his grandmother three two and a half three years ago in saying grandma I fall in love how. How Amazing who've you for love with you can just imagine a queens thing because yeah she's links to only woman and Harry saying well she's an American. Well that's okay because we do have another American in the family in the form of a her. Godson Phillips is married to an American whom? He's just about to divorce but however then she she's an actress odier she's an actress she's a divorcee a and she's black Wow the number one is. I'm sure the queen said something like are you sure you're in love. This is quite something I am. Ilab and I would imagine the queen said well. Why don't we give it a year and if you really off still in lobbying you wanted to marry Meghan in the time or whatever and that's talk again and then I'm sure that that time pasta? And they reconvened and they had another conversation and Harry said I'm more in love than I ever was. I WANNA marry this woman. Okay so what? You'll rose going to be. And so they they're rose your but queen being who she is this wise pragmatist. I'm sure said what happens. Day goes wrong. What if this doesn't work you know she's also very press you wish? She's a fellow. Torian CION tourists cheese tourists very grounded people anyway so I'm sure it was discussed. So this whole idea about the drama. What's going on okay? Decisions have been released publicly but order. This was decided a very long time. And it's interesting because actually Harry is doing something that his membre was almost on the bridge of doing as well. Yeah so you see. It's a woman before it's not some sudden and the Queen did not have a summit conference and there wasn't a lot of drama going on this is something that they've been talking about privately. Riveria long period of time to try and make best choice. About how service can be given mournful. Thanks a lot for Sherry and I'm sure that listeners who are listening in their cars are maybe in transient really enjoyed. This conversation as well action tribe. I hope you enjoyed our session so far. And you now have some insights into how you can find your own voice. It's important to speak out. It's important to express yourself and to really stand up for what you truly believe in it is important to have a dream into strive towards that new in most partly. It's an honor to not let others determine your destiny. That's probably why Steve Jobs once said don't let the noise of other's opinions drown out your own voice have the courage to follow your heart and intuition this somehow already know what you truly want to become and with that big cited is now dying for that. Yeah Yeah Yeah. You can find out information about the unique properties that allow Diana's become what she was and to ignite the radio that we all experience by reading Diana. The Voice of Change Yes. Stewart appears relied link in the show notes as well Would that it's now for the last round of our show which is the wisdom around which contains four questions Foot so that our listeners get take Nord and DIG Action Stewart in one sentence. What does the best piece of advice that you have received? Breathe if you could turn back diamond. Spend one hour with someone who is living or dead. Who would it be His Holiness? The Dalai Lama Ward is one thing that you do in the morning or maybe in the evening that has really improved the quality of your life your psychic and you didn't realize it. I meditate in the morning. I meditate in the evening in the morning. My meditation is an active meditation Tonight Pran and in the evening I on engage in passive relaxation where I used graph to open up all of my chalk roles and then I flows into a state of Alpha to receive from the divine artful and if you could recommend one book for our listeners today what would that be Diana. The Voice of change data the listeners. You GotTa make sure that you check out this book Because I'll be adding the link in the show notes as well. The story is it already on audible are. Do you have any plans for adding that as an audible on audible in two weeks time? I will be in a studio recording the audio book. Perfect because our episode will united were. We'd been released only about two three weeks down the line or maybe even longer than that. So there's a good chance that someone listening to this show and actually grabbed the free credit for an audible and listen to this book being read by Stewart Beers because listening is the new reading. And the fact that you're listening to this podcast actually prove my point and what better way into consumer book by listening to the author himself or herself so to get your free credit to my seven jeopardize dot com forward slash free book might seven jeopardize dot com forward slash. Free Book the Stewart. Thanks for joining us today. Where after the station Gordon regard a shot to station for our members as well some extra questions to go a little bit deeper but for now. Tell something that you're grateful for. And what is the best way that our listeners? Ardian skin find you and learn more about you Were starting sort of anti chronologically. These these wage find me is through www diana the voice of change Dot Com will. Ww DOT STUDIOUS DOT COM. And I'm very alive on social media either under Diana the Voice of change or stirrup pants the voice whether it be facebook twitter or instagram. And then the fuss practical question was. What is one thing that you would fulfill today today? Oh speaking with you will thank you. I'm meeting a very old friends for dinner. I'm immensely grateful for this opportunity to share with you and all of your listeners. And to have a wonderful conversation with somebody I haven't seen many many. I'm immensely grateful. Such a magical moment. Thanks for shedding actually drive if you're on instagram. That dig a screen shot of this episode and Tag us so that I am Stewart can share your story without community. My handle is at my seven chuckers at my seven shuckers. Make sure you do so. We inaugurated a card and extended session especially for our action tribe energy circle members to learn more go to myself and Chuck. Dot Com forward slash. Join that's my seven shuckers DOT COM follower slash. Join so consider joining us to upgrade to the entire session and if not I hope you have a spectacular day ahead. Thank you for listening to my son. Shot at license. Chuck Dot Com that. He Mind S. E. CHUCK DOT COM.

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Why should Tories be worried about Labour's political broadcast?

Coffee House Shots

10:05 min | 2 years ago

Why should Tories be worried about Labour's political broadcast?

"And welcome to coffeehouse shorts, spectators, political cost. I'm NAR Pentecost. I'm stay joined by Jane Saif and Katie booze. So Theresa May has been in New York, trying to reassure businesses that Britain still going to be one of the best countries in the world to operate in of Brexit. James. How did our trip. I didn't even trees a huge amount of news in New York Ivankov speech to UN was gonna full of a usual platitudes about clinical corporation. I also involved in the usual diplomatic dawn's as she gets into on these occasions where she tries to be coded off in, she tries to deliver enough clues tax on Trump to reassure of e you that she's on their side nor his, and then those one of policy, substantive thing was position on Iran nuclear, where she's gonna siding with busy you countries that are trying to essentially subvert these US sanctions on Iran. But at the same time, she doesn't want to have any kind of go at Trump by name because she knows that he would then reacting typically explosive form. So you had her trying to maintain this dawns and revving she, she got through the trip and disasters, and I think in her current predicament on his proably a source of relief top, I think she'll say defended free markets defended lay tax. And vendor the press. So there are some things I think quite welcome nauseous. She was making, but I think there's a general which is the low. She hit the right notes. I consulted MP's on actually defending his to be conservative ideas. Dating consisted enough to this is seen as a great sea change or an agenda that's trip. So many house you making slightly more waves is Jeremy Kuban and labor party. They released this new video town short video, which looks how they would restore pride in British towns and bring highest rates and communities back to life. We lost the actress. We lost the jumps. We lost confidence in all. We looked control. Once the backbone of this country, we've been sold shorts by political and economic system that's being challenged. James, which do you make a visit? It's a club video. It's quite Trumpian away is going to make our towns. Great. Again, it's going to blow to appeal to local patriotism about your place consensus that these places have been left behind and label will bring them forward. And always the vision is very statist. It's all about what government will do for these places. And as we found out on the new labor can of the limits of re-generation is top down is that when the government runs out of money, the regeneration stops. But I think it shows that labor all coming up in a gender, and it shows the ship professionalism of from now the tourists will have a formidable campaigning opponent. Action tours will be worried by this video will be worried in some degree. I think the whole labor conference this year aside from the core of their general strike if there is no Eddie election by of means, did feel more. Professional and definitely more slick. And I think this costs that they released last night quite soon after the speech went further and developing their vision and their pitch labor government do, and it's idea of big change. These change is going to benefit the many, and I think it was interesting is oversee a head of conference. We have love Brexit chat is is popular softeners position. It became quite clear, wasn't that surprising to some, the chairman, Kuban, and Joe McDonald, lifelong eurosceptics, don't want to massively soften the position. They want to noth- to keep the members from rebounding too heavy, but they refrained from doing a second reference referendum offer like many would have wanted. So the idea of a lever remain referendum. The option of staying in was was ruled out by some kiss. Dhamma might say one thing in gem definitely didn't seem like it was firm neighbor policy. I think this video actually gives you federal idea as to what their Brexit plan is because you look at the faces filmed and it's filmed in place like man. 'field tastes at the Tories one from Labor's election and they very heavily to leave. It does seem this Labor's pitch to voters and leave areas say we want, we will improve live. We will listen to your concerns, perhaps concerns that added into their decision to vote to leave the EU. And I think that will worry the Tories because we know that since twenty fifteen, the Tories demographic has shifted is now very hard for them to do well metropolitan areas that have very reliant on leave voters in leave areas coming out flames. If the party does manage to make the traction at wants to these voters, the Tories would be in real trouble and just finally going back to the Tories James Cavaliers interview Theresa May in this week's house magazine, and she takes talk for asking whether she's influenced by her husband Philip on policy, James Ewing unfair question to ask the prime minister. On question in the I think that one of creativity in most marriages of people talk to pounds about big decisions they've got to make, but doesn't mean that they do their spouse tells them to do, but you have a conversation about it. You say, work could do this, or I could do that, I think is how does anything heavenly sexist about asking that question? And I think if you if you think back to the Brexit referendum, for example. Absolutely. Crucial to Boris Johnson backing leave was that his then wife marina for the government's legal arguments. She's a very high powered lawyer were all wrong about what the role of easy j would be. For example, spouse do talk about this stuff, and I think it's kind of I think we should. We should be in a world where people self confident enough to say, look, yeah, oversee, we talk about the decision, but obviously this person is chosen to spend my life with about is someone whose opinion I listen tune Valley. I mean, do we know much about Filippini's? He's we know that he is. And he is a very political greeter injuries. Ame- method. The young conservatives this go in introduced by Benazir Bhutto and don't be permanent minister, Pakistan think you know he fought about being an MP himself, but entries may became an MP about I'm Bishen died. So I think it is and also just think about the that they wouldn't when they went to that walking holiday in Wales end of which is the general election. It would have been a very old holiday. If you've never done. Any point he would twenty miles a day or is he does dinner Nieve news that thinking about how many different electric to you. Differ slightly bad for James cleverly basically had the job of trying to into his boss and it's been slapped, and she hasn't said explicity, basically accused of being sexist over something. Many mail prime minister's happiness and have happily answered. We should get situation where while women feel that they can talk as as confidently about the role with their spouse plays and then life about undercuts them as men would. What is interesting is often people said it was what was really sexist when it came to Theresa May was the fact that Nick Timothy was constantly referred to as Theresa May's brain. So she's very reliant on his special advises, Nick and the never was a policy idea. People say that was saying Timothy. And I think some people who that was offensive because you suggesting prime minister doesn't have a brain which is suggestive else's brain, but she did relent. Nick Timothy have have any policy, but I can see that more as an issue as she might take offense than simply talking to your spouse about what you plan to. James has such as quoting Addy election changed. You didn't smoke the common people slightly more interested in her compared to fill it ma'am. It seems like David remove always ost about, yes, I think so. So governments, glamorous card. And I think that it means very much of chosen to stay in the background. And so if there is this which is supposedly, there's a big espouses d play, these big role. I mean, you can only some people think that Samantha Cameron is responding the whole drama and the toy ship contest who withdrew from sporting Bush wants those people think some people in that dates back to. But that night he was Tori. Fundraise camera gave a speech about David Cameron as prime minister, and she basically praised all these qualities as prime minister. And some people think that sent go into a tailspin think y'all does Boris Johnson those qualities. What do I do? You know? So he looks, do you have big influence on politics. They have anyone doing anything because in a marriage relationship, you talk to. The other person was interesting about Philip Mehler is when I speak to activists. I'm surprised at the number who have met Philip may because he is a very loyal supporter of of his wife both of the Tory party. So he often like frequently helps the phone banks, jury elections and not an election time. And whenever I spec into young activists, they said, you know, I've almost metrees Maino stood near. Maybe I've got photo, but I've met met Philip myself time. So he he does support her and he, he does a decent. I think that's maybe what's funny about it is we, we know that both conservative activists have been for a long time. We know that he actively helps behind the scenes, but maybe she could've talked for his phone canvassing. Thank you, James, and thank you Katie. And if you put us, please let us new on the sheet store. We love to hear from you listening.

James prime minister Theresa May Labor Philip Mehler Nick Timothy MP Brexit Boris Johnson Jeremy Kuban Katie booze David Cameron Trump Iran UN NAR New York Ivankov labor party Jane Saif Maino
Explainer 196: Why has Pakistan sentenced a former president to death?

Monocle 24: The Foreign Desk

06:33 min | 1 year ago

Explainer 196: Why has Pakistan sentenced a former president to death?

"Pakistan was founded in nineteen forty seven. It has not proved an easy country to lead indeed indeed. It's something of a Wanda anyone tries. In those seven. Short decades of its existence Pakistan has seen two presidents or the equivalent overthrown in coups. WHO's to forced into resignation to quitting to avoid impeachment one hanged one killed in an arguably suspicious plane crash one chased into exile one one dying from illness in office of Pakistan's prime ministers four have being sacked three unloaded by their own parties. One chased into exile one on assassinated one chased into exile and then assassinated upon their return and these are an incomplete assessment of the hazards attendant upon high office in Pakistan. We've only got about five minutes and at any rate to say. Nothing of uncountable. Attempted assassinations failed. Coups d'etat and sundry abortive altuve plots any occupant of Pakistan's presidential palace or prime ministerial residence nose to sleep with one eye open and a pistol beneath a pillow pillow so it is possible that Pervez Musharraf who was president of Pakistan between two thousand and one and two thousand eight has responded philosophically to the death sentence passed upon him this week by a court in Islamabad which convicted him of high treason. Musharraf cannot claim that he didn't know what he was getting himself into to inaction at. This moment is suicide for Pakistan and I cannot allow this country to commit suicide. I had to take this action in order to preserve the democratic transition then rick I initiated Massara also enjoys the constellation that the sentence is unlikely ever to be enacted he received news of the verdict in Dubai. Are you where he has lived since two thousand sixteen having prudently contracted around then a mysterious ailment. That could not possibly have been treated. In any of Pakistan's many perfectly serviceable hospitals certain reprehensible cynics have further suggested that the United Arab Emirates lack of an extradition treaty with Pakistan may have been as much a factor in sheriff's choice of destination as the healthcare in assessing the reasons for what has befallen Musharraf. It is worth recapping how he gained power in Pakistan and how he lost it. Musharraf was a career army officer and by one thousand nine hundred nine join held the rank of general and the title of Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Pakistan's senior most military role that year tensions between Musharaff Graf and then Prime Minister Sharif climaxed in a coup d'etat in which Musharaff seized power. I would like to please do not expect your level of democracy which you learned over a number of centuries all trying to learn and we are doing well the last time Musharraf held office surviving at least a two assassination attempts until two thousand eight when he resigned amid chaos and turbulence encroaching from a number of fronts. He left for London and returned to Pakistan in two thousand thirteen hoping to campaign for office again but found himself under house arrest. Prominent among a lengthy list of accusations against him was involvement in the assassination of former prime minister and former Philo exile Benazir Bhutto. who was murdered shortly after her return to Pakistan in two thousand and seven tourist allies and we are prepared to risk the liberty but we are not prepared to surrender our great nation the militants? This is not what Musharraf has been convicted of however however the high treason charge relates to his unsuccessful last-ditch attempt to prolong his presidency in two thousand and seven. He declared a state of emergency see and suspended. The constitution pulled the plugs on TV. Channels sacked the chief justice of the Supreme Court and had several opposition figures placed under house. Arrest I including current Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan Musharraf may be reflecting that some of his former foes have long memories but so Doodoo who do some of his former comrades Pakistan's military has always taken a flexible view of the convention of submission to Civilian Command and one of the more more brow arching responses to the death sentence against Musharraf has come from the Pakistani military's media department which said that the sentence had been received and with a lot of pain and anguish by the rank and file of Pakistan's armed forces. It also suggested in an unmistakable tone of airy menace that June legal. Google process seems to have been ignored and that an officer of Musharraf's statue could surely never be a traitor. Nice little independent judiciary dish area. You have here wouldn't want anything to happen to. If one sets aside any squeamishness about capital punishment with the conviction of Michelle off is arguably a step forward for Pakistan's always fraught and fragile constitutional democracy a robust assertion of the rule of law against a rogue officer who took power by force and tried to keep it by the same means however nobody in Pakistan needs reminding of the tendency of Pakistan's military to assert itself right back Woah never done in China because children deal outside Pete as we go to Air Musharaff's legal team claimed their client intends to challenge the guilty verdict and the death sentence in Pakistan's Supreme Court. It would be better for his country and himself if he did so from a distance Monocle twenty four I'm Andrew Mellon.

Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan Mush Joint Chiefs of Staff Pakistan Supreme Court officer prime minister Wanda Andrew Mellon Google Prime Minister Sharif Islamabad United Arab Emirates Dubai Musharaff Graf Michelle China Air Musharaff
Pueblitos de Buenos Aires 4  Relatos de mi tierra 37

Podcast RadioViajera

20:28 min | 7 months ago

Pueblitos de Buenos Aires 4 Relatos de mi tierra 37

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169: Didn't See That Coming Book Club: Chapter Six - Hack Your Courage!

RISE Podcast

26:10 min | 3 weeks ago

169: Didn't See That Coming Book Club: Chapter Six - Hack Your Courage!

"Hiring is challenging especially with everything else. You have to consider today. But there's one place where hiring is simple fast and smart that place is ziprecruiter. Try ziprecruiter for free at ziprecruiter dot com slash rise. That's ziprecruiter dot com slash r i s e ziprecruiter. The smartest way to hire. Hey guys i am really excited to tell you about my new holiday collection. Now if you've been with me for awhile you know. I've had product out before our start today journal and planner We have product inside of our rise up things that you can work out with. And i'm so proud of everything that we have pulled together but straight up. I have never been this excited to bring anything in front of you ever. We worked for over a year to curate this collection to find small businesses that we really wanted to elevate and showcase to our audience. We made sure that we worked with partners. Who were thoughtfully. Sourcing who use eco friendly packaging who were honoring of the workers who create the product. It is beyond all those things like. it's just good. It's done the right way. It's done thoughtfully beyond all of that. It's freaking gorgeous. Okay for real. It's dainty gold jewellery that you're gonna layer and where every single day from now until forever. It's the perfect denim jacket leather bags from ojok mexico. It's trail blazer t shirts for your baby girl with inspiring women on them like so cool and it launches on october twenty six so honestly for listening to this. It's already out. You should go check it out. At the hollis co dot com. But at the very least just go look at it. I know that so many of you are dreamers and business owners and you know what it is to hustle and so even if you're not in the market to i'd love you to go check it out if for no other reason than you know what that took right if you're a dreamer if you're a business owner you can understand how much time and effort and resources went from idea from concept to actually having something in our shop in store and i hope that you dig it. Hoping is pretty. I hope it inspires you in some way and if you are looking for holiday gifts i think you're gonna love what you see. Hi i'm rachel. Hollis and this is my podcast. I spend so many hours of every single week reading and listening to podcast and watching youtube videos and trying to find out as much as i can about the world around me. And that's what we do on this show. We talk about life and how to be an entrepreneur. What happened to dinosaurs. What's the best recipe for fried chicken. What's the best plan for intermittent fasting. What's going on with our inner child. House therapy working out for you. Whatever it is my guests are into. I want to unpack it so that we can all understand. These are conversations. This is information for the curious. This is the rachel. Hollis podcast chapter. Six hack your courage. I'm afraid of a surprising number of things. Let me clarify. I'm not afraid of big things. I've moved away from home and started a whole new life twice. I quit my job and started my own company. Seventeen years and going strong. I wrote books even when nobody read them. I've given birth three times and fought through years of the adoption process to hold my daughter in my arms. When it's big things. I seem to have no end of courage but the little stuff. I'm actually kind of a weenie skiing. Snowboarding water skis. Basically anything involving me going faster than humans were meant to go while riding on top of some kind of blade absolutely not. I hate public restrooms. Because i live in fear of someone walking in on me using the toilet the only thing worse than someone walking in while. I'm on the potty. Someone doing it on the one day i thought it would be cute to wear a jumpsuit. Because now they've only seen my hoo-ha they're also trying to figure out why i take off all my clothes just to p snakes are of horan's bigfoot okay. The idea of bigfoot is too much for me to handle aliens. I just threw up in my mouth. I refuse to even glance at a mirror in the dark. Because i heard about bloody mary when i was at a slumber party as a child and now i'm scarred for life how about l. macabre l. cuco lot yona. I grew up in a community with a large hispanic population. Which means i've got the childhood fears of two cultures airplane. Toilet seat somehow suck shinning to my body and then sucking my intestines out into the air. Something that's given me pause more than once. I'm afraid of many things. Not all of them. Real even want you to remember all of the things i just listed because we're going to talk about courage and the thing you need to really understand about it is that having courage isn't the same as being fearless. There are so many great things that great people in history have said about courage and fear but the one that resonates most with me is from franklin delano roosevelt. He said courage is not the absence of fear but rather the assessment that something else is more important than fear. Take that in. Think about that in the case of all those tiny little things. I tend to be so afraid of. I never seek out. Anything to override the fear because they're inconsequential. I don't go through. Life worried that the aliens in signs are going to take me out not anymore anyway. So i don't need to do a ton of work to overcome that particular concern. Bigfoot is just folklore deep down. I know this. So i still go into the woods from time to time. Most snakes aren't poisonous even if they are disgusting. See what i mean but there are plenty of times when our fear can be crippling and it's usually a result of the reminder of the pain we've experienced before we fear loving again because of the potential to be hurt again. We fear putting ourselves out there because last time we were rejected now. The pain is only a harsh interrogation are past. It's controlling our actions in the present and our possibility in the future working remotely with your team is the new normal. This requires teams to work closer together wherever they are monday. Dot com offers a flexible platform to manage any team project or workflow online. Bring your team together so you can continue to collaborate plan and track your work monday. Dot com is easy to use customizable and visual. It's an incredible team platform designed to manage your organization your process or your entire team on line so if you want your team to be more effective than ever visit monday dot com for your free two week trial when we go through something difficult or encounter a big life change. It takes courage to move forward in any way meaning in order to move forward. You must decide that. There is something greater at stake. Then the way you're feeling or your fear a feeling pain again. Did you get that. You must decide that there is something greater at stake in your fear. Please note that. I didn't say you will realize in time that something. No i said you must decide. You must make a choice to go forward in faith not in fear and not only that. But you're going to have to choose again and again especially on the holidays to me. Choose encourage in an awful season is sort of like having a five week old baby. Yes guys i know. I use mom analogies a lot in my writing. You write what you know and also this is a good one. I swear. I assume that many of you have experienced the and the pain of having a five week old baby but let me paint a picture for those of you who have not and as a reminder for those of you who whose kids are so long out of the house that maybe the fog of time has dulled the edges of this hell. Five old is past. The point of the initial euphoria. Now don't get me wrong. You're still crazy obsessed with your baby and so happy to have them out in the world wearing the teeny tiny close. You spent months collecting and then washing in that special newborn detergent but at five weeks the initial adrenaline rush has worn off enough. That you start to feel the hard stuff to you. Feel the exhaustion from no sleep. If you have more than one child you feel the stress of trying to manage. Multiple needs on your limited energy supply at five weeks in. Most friends have stopped bringing you casseroles and if your mom came into town at five weeks she's back home again at five weeks you're in it and it's good but it's also really really hard but here's the thing about that time no matter how tired you are no matter how tough it seems. When that baby wakes up for the tenth time tonight you still find the will to take care of him. When we were going through our adoption journey we got placement of twin girls who were both born addicted. My husband and i walked the halls of our house all night long with those babies because they were working drugs from their system they wanted to be held constantly and it seemed like the second. You got one of them settled. The other would wake up screaming. It was the most exhausted. I've ever been in my life. The kind of tired you feel in your bones at many points during that time just as i had with my sons and later my daughter it seemed like i might collapse from lack of sleep. But you know what every single time. Those babies cried every single time. Jackson cried or sawyer cried or ford. And noah cried i got out of bed and took care of them. I loved on them and fed them and changed hundreds of diapers. I swaddled them and rock them. Even when it felt impossible. I found a way i found something that was greater than my exhaustion. And that was my children for a lot of us. Our home is now more than just our home. For example i am literally recording this on my bed facing pillows because i'm hoping that will absorb the echo when you are inside of this world of virtual working you've got to figure it out and you've gotta make it work if you're a business owner or people manager home might also be where you do your hiring that's where ziprecruiter comes in ziprecruiter makes hiring faster and easier because you can do it all from one convenient place ziprecruiter dot com slash rise. No matter where you're hiring from ziprecruiter does the work for you how ziprecruiter's powerful matching technology scans thousands of resumes and profiles to identify the most qualified people for your job. It's no wonder that four out of five employers who post on ziprecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. And right now you can try ziprecruiter for free at ziprecruiter dot com slash rise that's ziprecruiter dot com slash r. I s e. All you need is wifi to try it for free. Just go to ziprecruiter dot com slash rise ziprecruiter. The smartest way to hire. Oh okay guys. It is officially holiday shopping season. And like me you try and get really creative with what you are choosing for your family and your closest friends so if you haven't checked out at sea before as the place to get the best gifts for them and honestly for you to then this is the time to check it out. Giving a gift from esi makes the person you're giving it to feel seen instead of the usual mass produce gifts give something truly original this year. The gifts you can find oetzi are handmade hand chosen and one of a kind go to oetzi dot com forward slash gifts to shop meaningful gifts for the people. You love this holiday season. That's at dot com slash gifts. If you're struggling to find courage it isn't because you aren't brave. It's simply that you haven't identified something as more important than your fear in a hard season. Fear looms large because fear is a cousin to grief. Fear keeps you stuck in your grief to it. Keeps you in the loop of remembering what happened who you lost. Who betrayed you or hurt you. It keeps you in suspended animation at the point in which the life you had blew up and became unrecognizable to you. Fear might even be comfortable. It takes courage to get uncomfortable especially when you've already endured a type of pain that rocked you to your core. You may not have found the thing that is more important than your fear but you might also deep down believe that there's a safety net. Think about it. When dave and i were taking care of our babies we were their only hope. Like one and the rebel alliance. There wasn't another option. there wasn't a plan b. there was no one else. We found the will and the strength to carry on against crippling exhaustion because our children were incredibly important and also there wasn't any backup. I bring this up because when people tell me that they can't find the motivation to change my first instinct is to tell them to attach it to something bigger than themselves when they reply and tell me that they have figured out that motivation that they're fighting for something greater than themselves but it's still not working then it's because they don't really truly have to change. Maybe good is good enough. Maybe you can halfway show up as a parent because you know your kids have your partner to help them and grandparents to maybe you lost the career that you loved so you'll spend the rest of your life in another job you hate because it pays the bills. Maybe you'll live at your grief for the next five years because you gave everything to caring for your ill parent and you lost both them and yourself in the process and now you've decided you've got nothing left to give anyone regardless of what that decision does to the people who are counting on you. Maybe you'll stay the enabler in your codependent relationship because the comfort of what you know even when it's awful is better than the fear of what would happen to you and to them if you found the courage to leave. You're never going to find the courage or the strength to push past your fear if it isn't absolutely necessary. Change is hard and by definition in order for courage to exist. You have to be working against something that scares you. I know it seems like a heavy lift to face. Fear in times of grief. Neither of those decisions are easy to make. And so if you don't have to and or if something isn't more important you will stay exactly as you are but with courage and only with courage. Will you see all your life can be even after your loss. This episode is brought to you by dropbox business. We have ways that we work best. I like to wake up really early and get a ton done before my kids. Wake up maybe your a night owl and you like to stay up late. Maybe you work best outside the great thing about dropbox business is that it allows your team to work together without needing to compromise. Individual work preferences do each prefer day or different apps to work in cloud or desktop. Do you email or slack. Comment in doc or chat over zoom. Does this caused tension well. Dropbox has one single place to easily organize and find both traditional and cloud content. You can work across any app file or cloud and even create new docks decks and spreadsheets without ever needing to leave dropbox. Get a thirty day. Free trial and learn how dropbox business can help your business at dropbox dot com slash teams at work things. That helped me know that you can figure it out. I know i talked about this already. You guys but if there's one reason for why i'm able to have courage so often it's intrinsically tied to my growth mindset. I believe that. Even when i get it wrong i learned something about how to do it right and i am less afraid. I never assume i have all the answers and so there isn't any pressure to do things perfectly because of that. I'm willing to try anything. When i know i have work to do or something to change in my life sometimes. My courage is big and bold. And sometimes it's small inches forward that build on each other until they create the distance that i need. If my first attempt doesn't work how. I hope it will. I know that. I can always try again in a different way until i figure it out. Study the courageous. It's so much easier to do something if you can read stories about others who have done it before you when. I'm trying to find courage as an entrepreneur. I read books written by other entrepreneurs. When i'm trying to learn to be a better parent. I read books written by the kinds of parents. I admire if you want to act in a certain way. It's important to see that modeled for you. I've turned to history books again and again because there are so many examples of female leaders and warriors who fought valiantly for the things they believed in and it never ceases to inspire me to be brave so many times women have pushed through loss heartache. The most incredible kinds of grief you can imagine and done world changing things because their courage was more powerful than their fear. Read about sojourner truth. Harriet tubman benazir. Bhutto and saka julia. These are women who shaped the history of the world and their stories are beyond inspiring. Face your fear already look the longer you hesitate. The bigger the fear becomes and the more the anxiety can take hold. I recommend you grab your favourite notebook and write down. What scares you in black and white. The thing i'm afraid of most right now is and then fill in the blank. Have the courage to be brutally honest with yourself. Are you afraid of losing another loved one of getting rejected and left behind a feeling vulnerable of people only identifying you by the tragedy. You've endured whatever it is just claiming it and writing it down will remove a lot of its power. Now after you've written down that fear. I want you to follow it up with this and if that happens i'll once you write the answer. Do it again and once that happens. I'll just keep asking yourself questions and answering them. So much of your fear is of the unknown and you can just give yourself a roadmap for your hypothetical scenario. You will feel more empowered. The leave me the. Rachel hollis podcast is hosted by me. Rachel hollis. Our show is produced by chelsea. Fish an edited by andrew weller with additional production support by sterling coats. Our executive producer is cameron. Berkman the rachel hollis. Podcast is a three percent chance production. Hey guys it's time for book club. My new book didn't see that coming came out. And while i thought i put every possible idea into the book. About how you rebuild or navigate crisis. I've gotten a lot of questions. And i would love to serve you guys by committing some time to answering those and digging into what you are personally walking through so starting november second through november eleventh. I'm gonna get on my instagram every single day at noon central. And we're going to go through questions. We're going to unpack and talk about all the things. What do you do when you're navigating crisis like losing your job or losing your business or going through divorce burying a loved one. These are massive life changing moments and navigating them can be hard. Especially if you don't have anyone in your life who wants to sit with you in what that feels like and man. I know what that feels like. So join me on instagram november. Second it is at ms. Rachel hollis m s read or you can search my name and i'll be hanging out there teaching and coaching and digging into conversation about didn't see that coming if you want to follow along with the actual questions The target edition of the book. The book club questions inside of it. So it's an exclusive addition. I made just for them. If you don't have the target addition. Don't worry i will make sure and read the questions. You can take them down whatever notebook you have but the point is join me. It's totally free. And hopefully it will give you perspective as you navigate the season.

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How the Taliban Won

FP's The Editor's Roundtable (The E.R.)

31:39 min | 1 year ago

How the Taliban Won

"From foreign policy. I'm Sarah wild Mun. And this is first person this week disentangling from Afghanistan. Late last month. The United States reached a framework agreement with the Taliban to end it seventeen year war Afghanistan. American officials say the Taliban has promised to prevent terror groups such as al-qaeda from creating safe havens in Afghanistan in exchange. The Taliban is demanding all foreign troops leave the country during the state of the union President Trump's that his aim is to change US strategy there as we make progress these negotiations we will be able to reduce troops presence and focus on counter terrorism, and we will indeed focus on counter terrorism. But is this the best option for insurance to -bility in the region, and what will happen next today on the podcast? We're going to look back at why the United States got into Afghanistan in the first place, what motivates the Taliban and how decisions made in both the Obama and Bush administrations have contributed to the current situation. We're going to do all that with help of Hussein of Connie. He's Irv as Pakistan's bass. To the United States from two thousand eight to twenty eleven house on of course is right across the border from Afghanistan. And you'll remember it was also the place where Osama bin Laden was ultimately discovered. Okay. So going to try and get the whole picture of Coniston. What do you think? I can do it in thirty seconds. In seconds, Americans know, nothing about Ghana, STAN they've been trying to understand it and they haven't succeeded. So it's time for them to come home. Does good less than thirty seconds. Good. All right. So so first of all thank you for coming in pleasure being here. I actually curious before we even start where did you grow up? Could you Buxton? A tiny bit about your childhood. Well, I mean, I wasn't bond to very rich or prosperous family. My family were immigrants from India will come to Pakistan at the partition of the subcontinent. They were housed in these British military barracks, which had been transformed into temporary housing for families of refugees today. Speak about partition growing up. Oh, yeah. Everybody spoke about Titian was it at trauma carried or. Yeah. I mean, my father was somebody who never wanted partition and didn't want to move to Pakistan mother was somebody who believed in partition wanted to move to Pakistan. So therefore, we had a lot of kitchen table debates about whether partition should have been something. I think that has stayed with me at an intellectual level even to this day house right now people in Buxton don't want to think of what might have been if they had been nobody Shen and people in India, always sort of think about the people who. Rated Pakistan are the ones responsible for partition from my own childhood debates. I understand that. There was a far more complex situation at that time. And that there could have been ways in which it could have been avoided and curious how that affects how you perceive the relationship between Pakistan, Afghanistan, the Taliban and one of the things it's remarkable. But the Taliban is that over the last eighteen years the Todd Mona's hung on. And if anything they've gone stronger where does the relationship beget between Pakistan? First of all one has to understand what the issue is on the part of Pakistan that makes it to interested in of Aniston bucks on as people don't always understand is a new country. There was no Pakistan in history. The name Pakistan is an acronym that was contrived by students Muslim students from the subcontinent Cambridge University in the late thirties. So the idea of Pakistan is no more than eight years old and the country's no more than seventy seventy one years old. That's it because Pakistan chose to be a western ally in the Cold War. It got a lot of benefit from American and European support of Aniston on the other hand because it was a neighbor of the Soviet Union from inception older country just didn't get involved in the Cold War. And then, of course, American awareness of ghanistan goes only as far back as the Soviet invasion of nineteen Seventy-nine for of guns. What is today Pakistan, comprises, a large tract of territory that was historic of anistan, and that was taken by the British 1893 and resentment and more important than resentment is a feeling that the Durand line the border between Pakistan Afghanistan today divided an ethnic city that Pashtoons do I did tribes divided clans so Pakistan of constant of Ovid had relatively open border the hundreds of points of crossing cetera. That was taken advantage of. Of by the United States and everybody else who supported them, which I against the Soviets and the mujahideen were of guns who were essentially people who resented communistic or of anistan came to Buxton cut recruited trained at cetera. Bacchus tan had a different goal than America did and other countries did in the water against the Soviets. Everybody else was interested in Soviet leaving of Coniston Pakistan was interested in ensuring that whatever succeeded the Soviet occupation was so behold into Pakistan that they would never question the Durand line and the eighteen ninety three loss of territory. And so ended up supporting some of the most hardline fundamentalist groups because they were closer to Pakistan's military intelligence services. Then the more secular are pro Soviet or for that matter less. Religiously stringent groups when the Soviets left civil war broke out of ghanistan Pakistan supported the hardliners situation went out of control the US voodoo from the region took no interest in the civil war Pakistan decided to support this group called the Taliban, which was basically those much hidden who were not willing to listen to their leaders. And so punks STAN was present at the creation of the Taliban. The Taliban have almost always had a very strong relationship with Pakistan security services who else has ever supported the Taliban, accept them. And from Pakistan's point of view who else has supported Pakistan's worldview. One of anistan that have gone should actually consider Pakistan in religious terms as slummy country rather than as the country that deprives traditional of guns of their historic homeland part of their historic homeland that is where the differences come. So the Taliban have consistently been supported from Pakistan. The reason why the Alabama are strong is because President Bush's comment. Made a big mistake the Bush administration defined their job in of Anniston, very narrowly. The thought that their job was just getting rid of either before he got to President Bush, and we're talking about George W. Take us. I nine eleven how did Pakistan view the attacks on nine eleven. But first of all we must understand that. There's a difference between how Pakistan security services view something. And how the people of them something the people of Pakistan have one hundred us but specs in security services have only one objective, which is to try and be equal in part. India? That's the historic goal. So the way this nine eleven was that disrupted their little plan. They had installed the Taliban par of anistan the mujahedeen. Other groups had all fallen by the wayside the Taliban were so beholden to Pakistan that now there was no question that any Pashtoon in of ghanistan will ever question the border or even Pakistan's right to to ghanistan that was disrupted by nine eleven. Because now the America's got involved until another superpower is well, not only that not only that it's Pakistan. Ambitions have been taught it the puck Steinem. I'm Bishen of having a of ghanistan that is beholden completely to Pakistan because I've gone assign is landlocked Pakistan is the only access to the sea Boxton is bigger much stronger. Military much more connected with the rest of the world so Pakistan could dictate to Coniston now if America's going to come and install in new regime of Coniston that regime will not be beholden to Pakistan has has been the case. So therefore all the Albanian leaders evacuated and we found out many years later in twenty seven and bin Laden was founded Buxton, it was just the Taliban leaders, even some leaders ended up in Pakistan, where were you on an eleven I wasn't Bacchus done. I was ironically, I was about to leave Islam about for Karachi on a flight in which on both sides. I had to form a Pakistan intelligence chief sitting in coach class on a flight rose Lama, but to Karachi the flight got cancelled in the nine alone. News game. And so I had to stay the night in his Lama before going home to Karachi. What was the reaction like in the airport that day mode important than the reaction of general public? I'll tell you what the to intelligence Steve's. Yeah. And they both thought that the Americans had been Totta lesson. And so it was interesting because I was of course, one of those who thought that no this is going to become a lesson for global terrorism. America will retaliate and will react bucks. Any public opinion has often been very anti-american? So half of FOX times population was probably anti-american. But they're also a lot of people like myself who resented the jihadi extremists and terrorists in fact, within a couple of days of nine eleven I wrote an op-ed that Pete in the New York Times. And which I made this argument that Pakistan me now have to choose friendship with the United States or continued support of the jihadis. Eighteen years. I have the feeling that they really never had to because the Americans allowed them the opportunity to carry on support for the jihad is vile, ping, America's allies. Let's go into that a little further because Pakistan nominally was US ally as US enters into this conflict, but at the same time. They have their own interests in Afghanistan. Can you explain that difference? So for one thing Pakistan had a military dictatorship at the time General Pervez Musharraf in charge and the American sort of old habit of trying to find you. You know, what FDR used to say about some owes a dictatorship in Karago that he's my his SOB. But he's my soobee. So all of a sudden Americans taught okay sheriff who was by the way at that time a pariah. And the Americans had thought that he he had toppled the civilian elected democratic government be he had been responsible for the war with India. Just a few months before his takeover and see hypoxia was not conforming to American expectations in relation to its nuclear program so Pakistan under sanctions before nine eleven and after nine eleven should've turns around and says, okay. What what do you need? What do you need help you? And the Americans define we found SOB. So. We should have helped the US in finding several al-qaeda figures a lot of people who ended up in Guantanamo were found by Pakistani intelligence service, but he never dealt a final blow to the jihadi groups that Pakistan. It's self had created for influence in Afghanistan that just gun Taliban. And then these various jihadi groups that were waging war in Indian-controlled parts of Kashmir and even in India so soon after nine eleven there was an attack on India's parliament which caused a lot of friction between India and Pakistan and the US decided to tilt in favor of Pakistan to try and tell India not to react in that the Americans will somehow bring stability the Pakistan game continued will until two thousand six before the US reacted between immediately after nine eleven and two thousand six the American policy seemed. To be to say, the Taliban are not I enemy. I'll CLYDE is. And is helping us with Al Qaeda but by two hundred six Al the number twos. Threes, they won't any left for Pakistan tourist and Hanover to the Americans and lots of intelligence started coming of how the Taliban had regrouped in Pakistan and had now started attacking American troops and honest, son. So Pakistan was now seen as both being an American ally helping America in certain ways, but also helping America's enemies, the Taliban attack Americans in STAN. How is that support provided to the dog on the Taliban equipped trained and host in Pakistan? And I think there's plenty of evidence of that. I mean right now, the president of the United States is kind of set his goals as drawing from Coniston. So he doesn't want to be at engine to any of that. But if you remember he himself pointed out that all evidence was that that would not have been the first became if they did not have a safe haven across the border in Pakistan. Go ahead two thousand eight you become the ambassador to Washington. And at that point were the most challenging aspects of your job. What was the tension between Pakistan and the US so let me back up a little in Utah than to came to the United States. And I came here to Krista the Carnegie Endowment for international peace, and then to be a professor of international relations at Boston University. And the reason was that I had been a a foreign critic of gentleman shut off and his dictatorship. So it became difficult for me to stay in Pakistan, and I came into a life of exile Musharraf, as you know, had massive public uprising against him in two thousand and seven thousand Nate new elections were held the civilian government. That was elected asked me to become embassador already based. I was already in the United States. I literally moved from Boston to Washington DC to become ambassador rather than moving from his lumbar, Washington that shift your life. I mean had you liked being a civilian and just teaching. Your actually with hindsight. I probably would have been better off remaining a civilian because I found myself in the vortex of a lot of controversies after became best. Of course, those who criticise me would argue that you know, the fact that I had lived in exile for few years made me predisposed to seeing things from an American. I who whereas I saw it as being a little bit more objective. I understood what the weaknesses in the Pakistani position were if we were going to build a democracy in Pakistan, Pakistan, could not be a democracy and be home to jihadi terrorist both at the same time. How did they entice you back? Then I mean, it seems like you'd have a nice live in Boston. But the civilian leadership I was very close to them being the to our our leader. And she used to meet me regularly. I met regularly. We talked about it. And so we were the isolate we had an opportunity with sheriff gone the military being prepared to see. Power to the civilians. We could actually build a viable modern democracy in Pakistan, and then been put to had been killed as you know. And when she was skilled husband who became president had kind of an emotional advantage in asking me, you know, what I know that you're going to give up a comfortable life as a professor and the US, but this is some very you'll be fictive and useful and why not become investor. And then on the American side. They were a lot of people who said to me. Hey, you would be a good into look you to have life for you. And put killed though. I mean, we were extremely traumatic, and I felt immense sense of responsibility because she had young children home v new very well as family, and because she didn't also have to go back. I mean, she could have said I've been prime minister twice I'm gonna live comfortably abroad. She also went from a sense of duty. Where were you in? She was killed in Boston. And how did you hear about it? Somebody called me. Actually, I was sleeping too early in the morning eastern time the phone rang. I also the phone on my wife had gone to Pakistan. We'd been as Bhutto she ran for parliament and became a member of parliament. So somebody called me and said done on CNN I've done on CNN. And the the news was so I called my wife who was crying and wailing. She was at the hospital. We have been able to have been brought after that fateful attack on up. Answer that partly dri back in that drew me back in. And Secondly, look if it wanted to do something important and something stark than you have to give up some comfort and then in twenty eleven year involved in something that came to be called memo gate memo gate was a label that was invented in Pakistan for something that will not enter to fabrication after the whole bin Laden raid. A lot of questions raised about Buxton's conduct as to why Pakistan had bin Laden and the Pakistani military and the intelligence services that didn't like my guts anyway, because I had already written a book was published a few years earlier, titled Pakistan between mosque and military in which I had wanted out that the reason why Pakistan has religious extremists because the military actually cultivates them for regional political influence, so the military and the intelligence services didn't like me, but after the bin Laden raid the taught. We need a scapegoat. We need somebody to blame for why the Americans would able to find bin Laden without us being able to find him. I they didn't want to answer the question, why was bin Laden there in the first place there, people doubt that Pakistan didn't know. Oh, absolutely. I'm one of them. So they decided that they needed a distraction, and in this environment, a Pakistani American businessman who lived in Monaco. I'm not mistaken came up with this ellegation that I had asked him to devote a memo on behalf of the civilian government to Admiral Mullen who was the chairman of the joint chiefs, and that the memel promised certain concessions to the US if the US hipped, the Pakistani civilians got the military down to size now the catching all of this is that while there's nothing wrong with the civilian government certain authority over the military suggesting that Ifan. Country's military put pressure on the military of your own country to cut them down to size was rock. I had nothing to do with that memel editor pocket. Sunday was quoted in the guardian is calling it a slow moving coop. Yes. Exactly. It was essentially an attempt to weaken the civilian government back using it of seeking American military support against Pakistan's militant in bucks in the military is respected and admired. It's ruled the country for more than half its life. And even those who don't admire it gone bad mouth, even they put it to sized institution. So it was an attempt to cut civilians down to size and eventually I vent back to try answer. The questions of stand. I went to Pakistan to do that. I was told not to leave the country. So I was stuck there for about three months, but eventually they had to let me go because they hadn't charged with anything that an criminal proceedings that but Speight, and so how long could I just sit there who eating for where were you during that? So during that time, I was protected by the civilian leadership of the country. I I was in the president's residents and when he became ill and had to travel abroad, the prime minister kept me in the prime minister's house. I was which really ended tension in the sense that I couldn't leave the premises. But I was physically protected against the military to unique situation that civilian government supported me in my position in my right to actually have all the. Legal protections that I was entitled to and the military and the intelligence services joining with the hardest line elements of Pakistan's media, saying some treason has been committed this man, you know, let's just hang him and have a try litter, but to have to leave the country, and I haven't since but in January there was an arrest warrant issued for buck sunny goats issue, what are known as political arrest warrants pretty frequently. And the international community has now figured that out. So these are sent around and they tried to enter symbol turns them down and foreign countries than them down routinely. Because it's now become such a sad practice. It was done against Benazir Bhutto been done against with Chile every Pakistani political figure of any consequence. Do you live in fear? I don't think so I am not easily terrified. So that's one part. The other part is that one has to say what one has to say. I mean what what's going to happen? I don't think that any international court is linked to on any of these allegations. These are primarily designed to keep the Bacchus tiny population from taking some of my writings and my criticisms Cicely leave us country result early temporarily. Yeah. But I'm not the only one I think the people who live there also lost at kissed family in Pakistan. I have extended family your wife is here. Now, my incher. I want to circle back Afghantistan President Trump has made it clear he wants out of ghanistan will what's the endgame? Rely. Don't think President Trump has an endgame. I think he wants out and he wants out, and there are people who measure military intervention by years, and those who do that say, hey, we've been there seventeen years time to come out. My point is that military intervention should always be measured against goals. Or did you go for and to do accomplish it or not? And if you did not ally, not it shouldn't be measured in time. In terms of what you ended there for you went there because the United States was attacked on nine eleven of STAN had become a safe haven for al-qaeda and other Islam's extremist jihadi groups, the idea after that was to try and make sure that of anistan and image it environment doesn't become a safe haven for global terrorism. They're the US went wrong was the Bush administration's mistake of completely trusting gentleman sheriff in ensuring that the jihadi groups are eliminated on the puck sunny site. So I love Aniston was rebuilding. You ended up having the Taliban reorganized and become a nuisance of Coniston. Then President Obama. The huge mistake off the so-called surgeon of ghanistan to fight the Taliban. But at the same time announce the date for the drawl as what that did. Was it hit the Taliban and the Pakistanis supported them game. How long America will be there? The Taliban had a maxim that Milomar who was hundred eleven used to say that the Americans have watches v have the time. And basically when President Obama announced that they will be scheduled for a drawl died to the surge all. That it was told the Taliban to sit in their sort of, you know, safe havens envy for the American withdrawal. When that redraw didn't come the Thaliban decided to increase the heat, which has now deserted and President Trump. I saying who will stay as long as we need to. But now saying we are in a hurry to draw. So in every way, you look at it. Basically, the US has not really put up the fight that should have been put up to succeed has US lost. I don't think the US has lost. I think the US has allowed the others to be able to proclaim victory by not putting up a fight. Nothing has ever been done to deal with the constant back and forth of Taliban and their supplies from the Pakistani side of Aniston's own government has been allowed to go in every which direction. The US spent too much money on San we twelve thirty. I just give you an example when I was invested. I learnt that there were several studies that taking place here about these standards at which of one public schools to be bit. And I said to somebody in the US how many do these studies cost and a couple of hundred thousand dollars for somebody doing study. And I said what are these studies about you're trying to figure out whether schools in Ghana STAN should be more like New Jersey schools or Maryland schools, something why don't you understand no ghanistan before the Soviets game? A decent school was a roof. Blackboard some Chuck a teacher and some books why country do that? So when people here complain that oh, God, the US has visted and spent too much money in a lettuce. I've done around to them and say you didn't have to you did that. Because that's we you make your decisions it's not the poor of this for you could have done it all at much lesser cost. And so what has happened now is that nobody's thinking about the ordinal reason for going into Coniston what if he come out the government in of Aniston is unable to fight the Taliban, the Taliban regained control of most if not all of Aniston and the various global jihadi terrorist groups three congregate there, not because of any other reason. But because it logically they and the Taliban have much more in common and will be welcomed much more. Easily than they would be in a country where the government really runs and extremists from another country are really not allowed to set. Right now, the US has created a framework agreement with the Taliban, but Afghan government has won't participate. Well, first of all what is the framework agreement? The framework agreement is essentially that the US would draw in return for a week, Taliban promise that they will not support international jihadi terrorist groups, but the Taliban themselves that an international terrorist group. They're attacked Americans have attacked the American embassy more than once they tacked Germans, French British Canadians, Australians, I can't understand how their promise that they will not allow or ISIS to come back into STAN and be considered worth the paper. It's written ons. I really don't see the framework agreement. All I see is a promise for those who just really want out. So that they can use it as a fig leaf forgetting out. What is the legacy? Of the US's seventeen eighteen years and Afghantistan, oh, there's a lot of positive legacy. I mean, a lot more of gone young women are going to school the Taliban didn't allow that the cabin played football with human heads. If you remember the Taliban were one of the most atrocious regimes in human history, and all of that is gone. And now the Taliban themselves saying or all of that was wrong. That is definitely a positive legacy. That Americans can be proud of a government has been created in anistan that with all its weaknesses and flaws. And by the government doesn't have flaws at the same time. There was always concerned that the US cannot afford to tag nice box Pakistan is a nuclear armed country Pakistan has been an American life for several decades. It would complicate the situation if box Boxton was put under too much pressure. So in a way, basically, the failure of the US in relation to honest on has not been affiliate of its. Actions in of STAN, but of its inaction in relation to Attala ban based in Pakistan. I'm curious if there's anything else that you offer our listeners that I haven't asked you will. I would just say that your listeners need to think about a what is common between we at Phnom Iraq of Coniston countries where America Winton guns blazing and kind of came out without a visible success. And I would say that the real reason is a failure to understand the regional dynamics of politics, and an inadequate understanding of the culture of the politics of the country where you're going when you into winning the country, you should know who you're Elisa. You should have minimalistic, and what you're going to change in to not going to change, and you should have a time line in your own mind in each of these cases, those requirements are not fulfilled people that you supported like Hamid Karzai ended up earning on you and being critical few. And yet, you don't feel that you have somebody in Ghana STAN that you can trust as your ally. So those are the areas that I think are the big lesson of ghanistan. And even now I would say that instead of announcing schedules of a drawl America should be clear of what it wants enough ghanistan not when it wanted in gunnison. Thank you master pleasure being. Hussein Connie is a former Pakistani ambassador to the United States. We should mention he was one of foreign policy top global thinkers back in twenty thirteen first-person is produced by Daffron edited by rob Sachs, I'm wild. And I'm your host.

Pakistan Taliban United States America Coniston ghanistan president Coniston Pakistan Afghanistan India bin Laden Ghana President Trump STAN anistan STAN Aniston President Bush Buxton Buxton
The Challenges Faced by Women in Leadership with Alice Eagly, PhD

Speaking of Psychology

34:40 min | 2 months ago

The Challenges Faced by Women in Leadership with Alice Eagly, PhD

"Twenty twenty is the one hundredth anniversary of women winning the right to vote in the United States yet full equality for women in this country remains elusive. Yes. US Senator. Kamala Harris is the Democratic nominee for vice president, which is certainly significant yet she's only the second black woman ever to be elected to the US Senate, which has only seen fifty-seven female members since the dawn of our country. Only one quarter of the Senate is female today while the much larger house with four hundred, thirty five members is twenty, three percent female. The. Number of women at the top of the business world is also scant. Just reached an all time high of thirty seven women CEO's of the fortune five hundred. But that means that almost ninety three percent of those top companies are led by men. Why has it taken? So many years for women to make even these gains what are the particular challenges faced by women who strive to be? How can psychology help us better understand the factors that hold women back or push them down or discourage them from aiming for the top. Welcome to speaking of psychology, the flagship podcast of the American Psychological Association that explores the connections between psychological science and everyday. Life? I'm Kim, Mills. Our guest today is Dr Alice Egli, a professor of psychology at Northwestern University who for many years has studied the psychology of gender especially sex differences and similarities in leadership pro, social behavior, aggression, partner preferences, and sociopolitical attitudes. Doctor has written numerous articles, chapters and books on these topics her most recent book through the. Labyrinth. The truth about how women become leaders challenges the common metaphor of the glass ceiling. Welcome to speak of psychology doctor and pleased to be here. Kim. This is not the first time. A woman has been on the vice presidential ticket in this country and women have run for president although only once as a major party candidate, is there something different about what's happening now and are the reactions from the media and public different this time around? Well yes. I. Think that it was entirely expected even demanded of a Democratic candidate. Such as Joe Biden because the support for the Democratic Party, stronger among women than men so really called for women being represented and then. It's a time when there's a good deal of protest and unrest over minority issues. And so. Choosing a woman of color certainly made sense to represent that community which tends to lean democratic but to to. To call in their loyalty of this particular way. So I think it was tiredly expected and generally very well received. Yeah. That's been interesting that there has not been a whole lot of backlash. I think know what are the characteristics that make her? Less of a target I shea is. Quite a qualified in the sense that she had a number of political roles in. And, she is a senator. AD So she has very. Good qualifications that would be normal in a male candidate. So she's qualified stance. she's also quite gifted speaker. And the ETA debater as as was displayed. Earlier in the hearings in the Senate. So I think she struck the public. You know somebody who had the toughness to be a good. Campaigner. So what particular challenges do women politicians face I as candidates and then once they're elected well, there are serious challenges that are embedded in the culture and sims. in terms of the way we think about leaders. And the way we think about women and men. So this is well established in studies on stereotyping. dumb by psychologists, political scientists in this case. So we know that people think women are the nicer kind or compassionate six more sympathetic to others. Better social skills and that men are the tougher agenda we call it more assertive, more aggressive sex. Okay I. Know about that. But then people think about leaders as more chantik than communal. So they had to take charge you have to be tough. Tell people what to do often. So that image is. Widely shared my culture is much more similar to men than women. So. That puts women at something of a disadvantage sort of goes like that. Was She. You know she's very nice. But then the but is. She's tough enough to handle that guy the situation. Could she really hold up a big debate. You know could she get people to do things which she has the respect and authority? at so that lingers in the culture. and. So women have to overcome and sets these anxieties people have. It's not about being a good person or a competent person is about being tough enough person to really take on that kind of role that demands a lot of competition and assertion and yet. Tough. Woman than that cuts against you as well. That's right. That's the agency paradox. So. If you're very assertive like so you say, well, okay, I'll be just like a man wrong. That doesn't really work for women Unless. Could take on qualities of being assertive to extend but not to go to extremes as dangerous but add to it the qualities of warped could kindness and empathy. So display both that tends to be something that works for women who are leaders or wished to be leaders, and you could see that at Camera Harris Right. Away. she speaks in a clearer. Pleasantly assertive way. She smiles a lot to. and has a lot of feminine expressive nece. In her gestures and voice not too much but it's definitely there and so I, think she has the bland that effect works very well for for women. In leadership roles. You recently published a study that looked at a large body of nationally representative public opinion polling and found that women are now perceived as being just as competent as men as well as more communal, but they're seen as less ambitious. How have these views changed over the past decades? Is this good news for women leaders today? It's mixed news. at this study was based on representative public opinion poll. Data where people were asked about and women. At the day, go back to nineteen, forty six, and then through two dozen eighteen. So it's quite a nice series. And so the way the pollsters do this as they ask a very direct question. I. Say like intelligence more true women more true man. Or. Equally. True. and so we do see a lot of change. In that women's competence relative to men has risen. So most Americans nasty equal. but those who don't shea equal more likely to say women than men so their. Competence lean slightly in the female direction. So that would be like being intelligence. The other change is rather unexpected. Too many observers I think our social scientists in particular that the. Of Women versus men has increased. So now it's overwhelmingly true if you say. Something like sympathetic more true of women or men it's women. So that has changed over time to be more extreme. On an agency doesn't change. So nine, hundred, forty, six people see saw man as more aggressive and assertive women and they still do and there's just no, there's no significant change in that trance so. For Women not to be troubled by these stereotypes it's the agency that has to change as well as the competence people have to see women's tough enough and that still goes on the male direction. The competence is very helpful. You know if anything. Women are so what more competent demand competence is? Something people expect of leaders. and the key. Is probably not particularly effective. in terms of being seen as even more communal of women in the past. What do you think is different in other countries and women are still under-represented in leadership in America but other industrialized countries have been led by women. You know you can think of Germany or England or even new. Zealand today. What's different there that political say tests explain that there's when had better chances at a parliamentary system than a presidential? System? So in a parliamentary system. The executive, the legislative branch Sir combined because the prime is the head of the party that wins. The has majority until women could make their way up. Through good service in popularity, their own district up the hierarchy, the party you know like Margaret Thatcher a couple of others at 'em. You could make it to the top of your party has done by the way you'll get to be Prime Minister Shri Party is elected. They don't elect a person directly they elect a party. But we don't have that we have the separate executive and so the focus is all on this one role. and you know being a woman or a man you're voting for the person and I think that brings out the the difficulties that women have even in the UK. But because they're never voted as a person when they get to be prime minister. And then the other thing. It's some countries and it happened a little bit here. As an attempt to there's a passing on through family very elite family ties. And so Indira Gandhi was Nehru's daughter. And Yudo and so some countries have that passing on and if there's not a male to pass it onto, it might get passed onto a wife in some cases or. A child. Of course, we we had a hint of that with the Clintons, didn't we almost? Didn't. Know when all was said and done, but it's not a tradition in the US to do their. Briggs actually. There was the two bushes. So the plug we did it though, but anyway, stronger tradition in some other countries, it's happened at an earlier point you know as when Indira Gandhi. Was Prime Minister of India. So the differences in the governmental system, there may be differences in attitudes to but. it's particularly the the structure of the political system I. Think I mean we would tend to see some of those cultures as being even more sexist. Stance but yet like Pakistan and India and other countries have had right? Benazir Bhutto. Yes. Ain't situation. Yeah and have had women and they tend to have been closely aligned in the narrow elites that were in the. Often by blood. So in your book through the Labyrinth, you challenge the notion of the glass ceiling that solid but somewhat invisible barrier that most of us think women face when it comes to reaching the highest echelons of leadership. Why do you think that metaphor is not apt and that a labyrinth is closer to the challenges that women face whether there's a couple of reasons released. One is success. It's suggest a very solid barrier and I don't think it's like prejudices on like that they are more. fungible malleable and it isn't that we've never had women. As fritzy IOS on the fortune five hundred. So there are some and have been others But the other reason chest that the barrier is right near the top rate. So you move up your career at Oh my God, you can't be CEO because there's this barrier at the top next to the top but that's not how it works in terms of careers in managed or other areas that involve leadership. The challenges are all along the way. It's day one you go to work. In as a you know a manager just coming in with your MBA, the challenges you have a or their and their every day, and as you rise, there are different. Shout you know it goes on and on. So it is a decisive the you're exactly the same as men and near the top, there's a glass ceiling it's really a completely wrong metaphor You know it has some. Some. Truth to it perhaps but it doesn't adequately represent. The nature of the challenges which are all along the way, and so that's why we propose labyrinth. That the man has a relatively straight road. Do you know maybe he has some bumps along the way or whatever but the woman has to go through this labyrinth so she has to be smarter right and she has to figure out how to out to overcome these challenges that she met. My face faces a woman she by take a wrong turn but. It's possible to. Turn around and go on. You know if you're really persisted but you gotTa expect you might get confused at some time you know take a wrong term. So it more represents the true complexity. Of Women's careers in leadership, the a glass ceiling does you published a Meta analysis in twenty eleven examined the extent to which stereotypes of leaders are culturally masculine can you talk about those findings and whether these stereotypes have changed in the intervening years? Right? We did publish a Meta analysis. Loud. Actually three underlying types of studies that had looked at the leader stereotype the most famous paradigm was started by. Virginia shine it's called the think manager think male paradigm started I nineteen seventy three an steady the three groups of participants one rates, women, one rates been and one rates, managers or leaders. and they do it on a log list of traits, and then they correlate these ratings. the Ben Group to the leader. Group and the woman grew two liter crew and they find the male leader correlations are much higher. Than the woman leader correlations, which is just what we said before people think that leaders are masculine and assertive in some men are more like leaders and women, and so that's why I got called the sake manager think male paradigm, and so it started a nine hundred, seventy three. So we could look at it over many years and we did find some shift. And that was the woman leaders relationship. There was some gain in thinking that leaders had more feminine characteristics that is in particular more social skills. So the notion of leader had changed so that yes, people continued to think that the state to be tough assertive but by the way, they should be somewhat socially skilled. at so it was a hint, Avenger Rajini. Coming in but it still the masculine characteristics won out over the feminine, even the most recent. Study. So it was a shift that would be welcoming to women this growth of drudgery, but it didn't go all the way to and. It just was some at addition of the social skills sip of the of the kind of thing to what people expect for leaders. You've also looked at differences in pro social behaviors between men and women. How are they different than? How are they the same? Social the hand it encompasses a lot of different kinds of behaviors and so we found. The both sexists engaging pro social behavior, a lot of it. So they're similar in engaging in this class of behaviors, but they tend to specialize to some extent in in different aspects. One of the things we were interested in particular was pro social behavior where the helper puts him or herself at sub risk. And that was. Interesting, because there was a lot of differentiation. So men are more likely to. Do, physically, dangerous acts to save other people's lives such as saving somebody from drowning. running into a burning building. And pulling out somebody intervening and crime setting for the criminal has gotten. So these are truly life threatening him and all the women sometimes do these things. It's considerably less likely. But another thing that has some danger. Is. Living kitten donation. You know giving your kidney, you're perfectly healthy person and this person. Kidneys have given now. Would you jump up and say, well, you can have blind. That's not an easy decision. Because it involves in null, actually la of risk, but it involves an operation and some some real risk to your health and. Whatever? And we find women are more likely to do that. it's up to give part of it. It's often done in family. It's within families because the more you're genetically matched safer, it is for the person who is either, but women are more likely to. high disproportion forgiving to spouse women are much more likely to give a husband than husband in tool. Why? And Amazing. So there's a dangerous kind of helping behavior, but it's it's somewhat female dominated. So. Other kinds you know. Volunteer Organizations Doctors and nurses who go into dangerous situations and that kind of thing. It's ver- winner very well represented in those kinds of organizations even though they're still brisk. Another thing we of course, there's a higher proportion of women. Nurses yeah. But most nurses and doctors and even psychologists. are needed in those situations because traumatic So another thing we looked at two on attempting to gather all the available data was Holocaust rescuing by non-jewish persons. which happened in occupied countries of Europe. And there were records They're actually kept by Yod via the organization in Israel. And they are held at the also the Holocaust. Museum. In Washington from which we got the records. From which we could classify the people by. Nationality and. SEX AT WE? Found Women slightly overrepresented often you couldn't tell because it was a couple you know. But then when individuals recognized for having rescued, there was a slight overrepresentation of women. And this was extremely dangerous particularly in Poland. The rescuers were just said to the camps if they were or even killed. Right away. So it was a very dangerous act. So. What did we think we saw? overall description that women did over represented when there was a very deeply relational kind of act. As giving your kidney to another person that's very deeply relational and the Holocaust rescuing often was too because you know. It would be a CO worker or a knock on the door and you had to let people into your house and heightened you know in the frank case to hide them. So this was very deeply relational, and so the women with somewhat over represented helping was of this type. and men were. Over represented on the act. Debated off physical strength the course, and some sudden action of rescue in a dangerous situation and stranger rescue now, the per. person that's out there routing is often not in your family but you know you're at the beach and it becomes apparent. So that kind of stranger rescuing demanding the very sudden decision Ed offered those could be physical element. In strength being advantage that are overrepresented. So there was some gender and all this. Yeah, but it makes sense I mean especially if i. May Say I I'd like to run into that burning building and save those children but I don't think. I. Can I could physically. Yeah industry could. Or could be a manner A. Person in there and you couldn't, and they are trained, of course. But firefighters. But. Ordinary people sometimes do those things to you know not just the firefighter. Sure. Let's step back from it and look at the big picture because you've spent your career looking at differences and similarities between men and women, and during those years there've been a lot of cultural changes. There are more women in the workforce. Today men are beginning to question the societal expectations for them to be tough and aggressive. The metoo movement has rendered some behavior's unacceptable. Are Men women you think changing intrinsically through these upheavals are the differences narrowing between what American society considers masculine and what it considers feminine. Wow that is a very big question. Certainly, women have changed profoundly by. Most women moving into the labor force. Into a whole range of roles. So, women. have. Their lives have changed. But. If you look at that labor force, it's pretty segregated. So, women tend to be in roles. That our humanity demanding. Nursing, teaching and social work. All women are over-represented. If you say, well, you what what about those other roles they've gone into? Like the lawyers doctors to aren't they? Yes. But then there's an internal segregation. So look at public interest law. You'll see a whole lot of women and family whole lot of women. A you look at the medicine, it's obviously would specialty is most female-dominated. Pediatrics. And of course, gynecology and a psychiatry, there are a lot of women. So again in the more community demanding won't areas. In management. Business. You could also guess which areas most female-dominated. Human Resources. And Public Public Relations which demands those social skill to go out there and represent your country the. So there's It's at some deep level of communion and agency. There's less change. The people have stink because of the segregation, not only between occupations, but within occupations at the kinds of. Sub, specialties the women versus the men take on. So yes, there's been an enormous chained. You know and we see in the stereotype what? Certainly all to be there, which is the rise of women's communion because after a women are more educated now you know the men many more college degrees and even the PhD go slightly in the female direction now so. There's enormous change in APP cut education therefore. Which produces knowledge competence of the of that type, and so that's an enormous change of women Becoming. Like men in that sense but overtaking them. so that's fantastic but there's this underlying agency communion the Yin and Yang the dynamic that we still see in the data until we don't know. Exactly that comes from the nature nurture. Question. Right. So. Do you have any words of wisdom for those American women were hoping Someday Day to be President or CEO over Fortune Five, hundred company? What can they do in our current culture to improve their odds of success? One thing Lee say particularly in politics Running for office of the women are more qualified. In the sense, they have more past experience in education relevant to the job. overqualified in terms of those kinds of criteria. at I'm not sure the extent to which true in business, but I wouldn't be surprised. is so the idea would be don't skip on the qualifications. If most of those people have NBA's get one get one from the best place you could get one from. and if you want to go into politics okay. When you're young, you gotta get started when you're in college, go to the Republican or Democratic Society for the students and try to get into leadership roles and then volunteer for campaigns. You know get the knowledge, get the context 'cause they're. They're probably be more important for general for the woman than the man you know. we find that in politics harder for women to get the You know the support and money for the campaign than it is for men. So you gotta get well networked. to compete. So it's the root may be a little harder. Therefore, you have to have a high you have to bring more to bear. So don't skimp on don't think you could skin bonnet. So to get in there and and get the kind of background that is ideal as possible. So that's very important. And then. You do need to keep in mind the double blind we this is what we talked about before but another. Name is the double blind that as a woman you're expected to be communal to be kind and carrying you know Nice. And as a manual as a as a leader, rather, you're expected to be able to charge to be assertive. And Minot to be able to argue with people and hold your own. So there's both of those things the man could just do the ladder you know, but the women have to to be successful ordinarily have to bring the community law is very important for them to be liked. Men could get away often with not being so. but the woman if she she disliked it's. You know I think that was part of Hillary Clinton's problem. People dislike trump like people disliked. Hillary and that was. A worse that was more of a disadvantage for her because she's a woman. And so to keep in mind the double mind ad that you have to go she ate and they're smart ways to do it. I Think Camera Harris Insofar as I've seen her on television is doing a good job with that You know. So look at women who appeared to be doing a good job as role models. Yeah and then persistence. You know because you're in the labyrinth. Take a wrong don't give out. Don't give up right JUST LEARN FROM UTAH. When Things go bad in all Chris many things I've done I wish had gone better or differently wrong but you know I hung in there. So that's important in all careers. But in your if you're in a career that has a labyrinth than it's even more important. You. Know you could get discouraged but. Take a deep breath in and learn from it. Go on. Yeah. So I think. You know I admire women who do make it through to these leadership roles I think it it. We can think on the average it just takes more skill than it did for the man in leadership. You know he wouldn't be so much tested in questioned. As to whether he can do the job that sounds a little unfair but I guess you just have to put up with. Unfair would it? It's like you also have a burden for the people because. The women become catalog later you know. So, we could be thankful for. Hillary Clinton. Yeah. She was there and got people used to our new will but you won the popular vote and Gavino. So The women that come next like Cobbler Harris I think have an easier time because. Of Her and other women. In politics. So yeah. So we have to think it's unfair but. It's not as unfair as it was earlier. Because they were there and I hope to make it less affair for the women who come next. That's a good way to look at it. Well, Dr Egli. Thank you so much for joining me today. This has been really interesting and just a very almost a fun conversation to have Kim Line to talking with you. You can find previous episodes of speaking of psychology on our website at of psychology dot org or wherever you get your podcasts. If you have comments or ideas for future podcasts, email us at speaking of psychology at a p dot org that speaking of psychology all one word at a p a dot. Org. Speaking of psychology is produced by Leon Herman. Our sound editor is Chris. Thank you for listening for the American Psychological Association I'm Kim. Mills.

Cobbler Harris US Senate CEO United States Kim Line Hillary Clinton American Psychological Associa Senator shea prime minister Dr Alice Egli Mills Indira Gandhi Democratic Party representative psychological science executive Joe Biden India Twenty twenty
Tuesday 12 November

Monocle 24: Midori House

26:55 min | 1 year ago

Tuesday 12 November

"You're listening to Molecules House view first broadcast on the twelfth of November two thousand and nineteen on monocle twenty four. This is molecules house few coming up today. A brexit party will not contest the three hundred and seventeen seats the conservatives one of the last election what we will do is concentrate our title effort into old of the seats that are held by the Labour policy the BREXIT party scales down. It's great crusade. Does Nigel farage even want Brexit to happen my Mary Digest Key. Alex Fontana and we'll discuss that and the days of news including Donald Trump and wretched. tyrod ones we bromance leaders in exile and our affairs editor. Christopher termite gives us a crash course in creative coalition building. I'm Andrew Mullah Mongols House view you starts now welcome to the show and joined by Mary. Digest ski contributed to the Independent Independent and the Guardian and Alex Von Tons Amon historian author and screenwriter. We will start he in the UK where not for the first time in his career. There has been something of a a discrepancy between the vainglorious promises made by Brexit party leader. Nigel farage and the delivery there of yesterday garage announced that the Brexit party which had been. I'm going to contest every seat. In next month's election would contest rather fewer standing down in all three hundred and seventeen constituencies won by the conservatives in two thousand thousand seventeen. This has come as something of a shock to many brexit party candidates who had already spent considerable sums on their campaigns and may now have to solicit loans from that terrifically polite bloke who emailed them about Emperor Bokassa Gold. Merry Nacho Farraj has never really wanted to win. As he doesn't actually want brexit happened happened he would therefore have to find new gripped and or get a job. Well I've always been in favour of Nigel farage being given a peerage because it seemed to me that if that had happened in two thousand sixteen when it was first mooted Actually we might not be here today. but I'm not sure. Oh about that theory that I didn't want to win because when you looked at him presenting his six hundred plus candidates and then just a few days later Sir saying well actually No we're not going to contest all those seats in fact we're going to contest barely half of them He did look to me. As though somebody a- a- as though something of the sort of lifeblood had gone out of him he looked he looked really diminished character. So you know everybody is denying any sort of deal been done between him and Boris Johnson. But it's hard to believe that there's been something going on behind the scenes Alex Wong shamelessly inserting my pet theories into this. It's conversation do you have any time for my belief of what's going on here is that farrage has read the applications of Brexit party candidates and knows that their chances chances of coming up with six hundred candidates who would not prove within a matter of hours to be certified building. Bats was while slender. Well I mean. Let's face this Labor the Tories and the Lib Dem's having enough trouble with there is nothing I would not give to read that file of Brexit Party candidate. Ah Stations I think it's probably quite special but I think you know the kind of question here then is going to be who benefits from this from them. Send down the Tory seats. Beats and of course you know. There was all sorts of speculation yesterday on on twitter and people kind of doing their pet theories about who benefits but actually sort of despite the fact that standing Tori seats of course. The crucial remembers. The Tories aren't just looking to defend a majority that majority needed win new seats and is quite possible that if they do continue we'll see if they do or not to stand in Labour Lib dem's seats that actually in a way the brexit party by splitting the Tory vote will actually fail to. You mean. They can't win those seats which they need to get a majority so I wouldn't be a tool surprised if we see the rest of these candidates also disappear? They told according to Some conservative journalists on twitter. They've been told not to pay their deposits until Wednesday as the last possible day. Say so I think I think we'll wait and see whether this is going to happen on north. This would all be terrifically amusing of course if it wasn't happening to an actual country in which real actually live Mary. Who Do you think if anybody move helps? Because as Alex correctly points out you can make the case that it helps the conservatives by not competing in the seats which they won lost time but you can also make kate's that it doesn't really disadvantage delay because it just splits the Tory votes in the seats where they're running. Yes well I think in a way that sort of says it was at all because yes it it takes away some of the disadvantage that the might of been had brexit candidate stood dude in safe. Tory constituencies But I think I think there's another aspect to this. which is that some of the response to the BREXIT party stepping being down in all these constituencies yesterday was fury On the part of some brexit supporters who said they'd now got no one to vote for because they he regard. The Tory party is not brexit pro brexit enough and they follow the mantra that what Boris Johnson is proposing his deal with Brussels. World's this is not brexit So nothing ever will be Brexit for that tendency you could. You could literally all off the English Channel and they would still say this Susan for no. I absolutely agree. But they thought that they got somewhere that their vote could usefully go according to their lights and now they have a question as to what to do and it may very well be that. Rather than voting for the Conservatives they simply won't vote tour nevermind. Alex men member Mary. Mary mentioned earlier. The thought of Lord Farraj of of wherever it would be Brussels. Possibly that's where he has spent most of his time. Ah Yes he has recently floated again. This idea that he was offered appearance by the Conservatives are we. Are we buying that. We have so so far. Only nargile for Asia's word for that unders as many disgruntled Brexit party candidates would be willing to confirm that may not be worth all that much. Now I mean I think I read his little announcement that he's you know and he said Oh I can't be bought So you know what she Is is news to dose of US. I suspect he's floating that because he wants one I think that's a hint. He's dropping Whether or not he's been promised one who knows I wouldn't put it past Osborne Johnson to do so but I think certainly what the The from people that I know Boris. Boris Person Say That actually personally. He detests Nigel. Farraj so I think very very easy to yes it is and I think that can only be one and I think the chance of Johnston offering him the kind of position where he could perhaps serve and a conservative administration which has also been talked about. You know packed is very unlikely. Because don't want for us on a on a table with him So actually perhaps it is feasible feasible in terms of its way to shunt him off. Give him you know a bauble But actually remove him really for many many active role. I think this is serious. Reason also also Why Nigel farage? Maybe not exactly deserves a period but might might be a good thing. He has probably single Hundley. Done the most to change the face of British politics and even the course of the United Kingdom When he set up the the UK party the and campaigned so forcefully for the UK to leave the European Union? And I think that his the problem for him him in a way and for the whole country was that our electoral system is such that you keep and now the brexit party. It's very difficult for them to win. Seats it's in the House of Commons to make it genuinely representative. And so they were carving out a slice of the electorate without having any reward for any representation having to take any responsibility by actually getting elected to thank him. We've seen people from in the past from fringe. Parties be elected for instance the British National Party Two local councils generally they managed to serve out maybe one term very very few of them were reelected elected because then you had that clash between accountability and the platform they were elected on. The two. Things weren't reconcilable so I sort of think that There has to be a place for this strand of opinion somewhere in British politics. And I think for Ferrari to be given the peerage that might be the place for it to be married to Jesse and Alex von thank you for joining us. We will have more from you both in just a moment but first here is Monica. macos Hippie with some of the other stories. We're following today thank you Andrew. Emergency services in Australia have been battling more than three hundred fire severe weather yeah. The fueled catastrophic conditions across the state of New South Wales Bushfires reached within the sensor of Sydney prompting an airdrop of fire WII retardant over parts of the city cooler weather. It's moving across much of the affected area today. Though there fear the strong winds may find some of the dozens. The fires are still burning. Many schools and universities in Hong Kong remained closed on Tuesday after protesters called for day of traffic disruption. Much of the city's public transport has been suspended or delayed earlier. Harare's police into several universities. Firing teargas is in one to disperse the students and she and so. Our government is considering ending Japan tax break on wining and dining experiences that large companies by the end of this fiscal year. The tax bypass was seem to do a temporary measure to soften the blow off a consumption tax rise in two thousand fourteen. Not In and it's been renewed twice already large companies have already cut back on blowout dinners which some say makes the tax break unnecessary instead. Tax Relief is expected to continue for at least another two years in small companies. Those that lines now back to enter. Thank you Marcus. This is molecules house view. I'm Andrew still with me are married to Jesse and Alex Fontana well. Let's look now at Bolivia more specifically at the peregrinations of its recently defenestrate president. Evo Morales Morales has accepted an offer of asylum in Mexico and as such joins that melancholy crew of exiled former leaders those overthrown overthrown potentates. who find themselves not merely out of office but out of country it is not necessarily a career ending setback some have made reasonably successful comebacks comebacks others however have been compelled to Sulk and or wonder for the rest of the Natural Alex which of those outcome seems? More likely for Morales Lalas. Oh it's very early to know. He's going to Mexico which is a very popular place for excellence. Specially for leftists America the covering we've had of course Trotsky they're younger Auburn's from Guatemala. Didn't go well for at least one of those new Fidel Castro. was there Furlan where he met. Che Guevara was in a house posse Mexico City over large polar spaghetti and even the shower of Iran. was there for all sorts of people have been Now can he from there. Go back I think it's a lot's going range depend on what developments. Go Down in Bolivia From here on which at the moment is cool very hard to predict because it really is just happening as we speak. So we'll see I mean they're all uh of course leaders who have gone into exile and he has said he will return with with force and strength so So we'll see whether he can muster any of that. Go back with Mary. We do you like his chances. Because in many respects it's easier now Modern Technology and communications being what it is for the exiled leader to continue to have an influence loans at home. He doesn't have to rely any more. On sort of shortwave radio broadcasts and Seimas that pamphlets he he can address his constituency. Whoever whoever that may still be directly can still have an influence? Well I think you probably can't The question is how much of a constituency does he have. And how how much of a constituency currency is he going to retain in Bolivia and that's very hard to hard to gauge because even though the election which shoe which was then was decreed to have been manipulated the re-election as it were he didn't eat he only just. I managed to win that despite what was called an also manipulation. So does he have the constituency back home that he can actually used to come back and I think that is. That's may be the biggest question. It's a weird business. Alex the the exiled leader. Do you have a particular favorite with your historians hat Well I'm not sure how favorites at the moment STOORIKHEL historically I mean even the British monarchy has has been exiled at points. I mean I. It's Peter Cohen thing to be and I mean you personally had some countries like Pakistan of had leaders that have been leaders than being an exile. Then come back and be leaders again. So I remember interviewing Benazir Bhutto who in London during her period of exile and she says and he would probably run one of the best ones if he were doing A table of those who've been there back a few times Encumber conventionally ended badly. ardley forever. It did I mean nursery. WHO's been the latest effort Last Russian also not looking good for him either I mean so you know I. It's the DOJ business. Going and going back I do remember how rather wonderful Book at home with Pictures. It's a photo book from years ago and I've given it his presidency. He's at school dictators. James and it's got pictures of the kind of houses they believe it is yes a regular presence here twenty four but I mean I I need as you know all I can say is that I do. Exiled leader sometimes apart from apparently by Lhasa furnishings in Golden Leopard Skin. My answer to this question. My answer to most post questions frankly is King Zog Albania's who who's journey into exile was it was a thing of many splendors reputedly. I'm not sure how true it is. That when he and his retinue arrived at the Savoy in London and the porters made to lift trunk they remarked upon how heavy it was a nasty what was in it. And he replied gold He had travelled by Triton across your with with off the contents of Albania's treasury. Well I think maybe my favorite exile well one of them would certainly be Trotsky who has already been mentioned Who fetched up in Mexico Not to a happy end But also I think we sometimes forget. Shaw Shaw go was in London and has as many exiled leaders have been as many exiled leaders have been but the goal apparently made himself a complete applete pain for the successive governments in London and through the war were. They felt that he was sort of acting beyond his beyond beyond his remit that he was making very difficult for the alliance and then of course He rides back in splendid triumph often. Often Liberation of France So this but I think there's something else about exile which is that? I mean it's interesting. How smoothly in a way? Ah Morales and how quickly his flight into exile was organized and executed. Because I think it's in some ways it's an underused solution for these sorts of situations and I think that Exile rather than say house arrest life imprisonment Mun trial even execution. We're approaching the the anniversary of the execution of the Ceausescu's Romania. I think exile is actually a young most civilized solution in a way. The trouble is Alex. We've exile as a solution and Mary is right in many respects. It's a preferable outcome certainly for the the overthrown leader. But you've got to find somewhere willing to take them which isn't always an option. Is it no. And some people have social going around around with with their bags trying to end somewhere I mean Certainly in the Caribbean win but these fled Cuba. He turned up in the Dominican Republic for her to hear who was completely horrified. Loyd this kind of women who had left and immediately so tried to have him killed So it can be frying pan into the fire is definitely a danger. I don't think that's going to happen to Morales Mexico. The seams of being offered and arranged. I think he's probably will keep an eye out for an ice pick. Ninety boredom would be a problem. I think though Mary relatively Wli speaking because you go from this life extraordinary power and excitement and then it's that question I'm I'm reminded years ago. The New York Times correspondent set himself the task of trying to get hold the VCR means phone number in Jeddah and find out as much as he could about the the post you know tyranny life video men and apparently he just wasn't doing very much which sort of like from from health club to restaurant. I think boredom is obviously a problem. If you've been in power but for the ones who are aspiring into power in a way it gives them an opportunity to plot their return and to enter campaign. I mean when you when you looked in quite recent times. Boris Berezovsky was exiled in an aspiring Russian leader and he was in London. He made life a complete pain. Um In four successive governments in London reached the point where he was actually warned by Jack Straw when he was foreign secretary that if he carried on This high profile anti he Putin campaigning That he'd have his asylum withdrawn which is almost unheard of penalty But he made very high profile and in fact very influential use of his exile. Well let's move finally along on today's news panel at an imminent meeting between two as yet on exiled leaders specifically US President Donald Trump and his Turkish counterpart Richard Type Odwan the former will host the letter at the White House tomorrow and it seems seems reasonable to expect an amount of the edginess phoning from trump altogether at odds with the actual state of relations between the two countries while trump clearly regards Dewan. They deeply creepy mix of or and envied. One has not recently appeared altogether interested in Turkey's alleged general alliance with the West membership of NATO and so forth. Alex Alex. How much are you looking forward to the joint press conference well? I think it's sort of fascinating to watch because I mean this is one of those cases where really I mean you know. US Turkey relationships. Ah Relationship is in a terrible state and the only thing that sort of working is that trump's got a soft spot for further leader for on He loves in big mound. Lost a tough guy but he of course. Also trump has no concept all of strategy and he can't distinguish between his own interests and preferences and those of the United States so when he's kind of operating a mean towards woods other on he he can't use that relationship in a way that perhaps be useful if something comes out of this that's positive for the. US that will be. I think chance not actually designed me were beyond seems to be having a wonderful time playing trump a cheap tin whistle In the way that you can I mean he sort of came out with this statement before he flew to Washington Washington And where he said. We've made significant progress on several issues despite bureaucratic and political sabotage attempts by some remnants of the previous administration. Now wait a flat. A trump is insult obama and of course to kind of imply a conspiracy. Theory trump loves those from his stupid. He's capricious he's playing Bryant of last last week he loves people to install his enemies and of course overwhelmingly. He's very vain and auto and certainly seasonal that Mary further to that trump does clearly really hold a doin in some regard. Is that do you think trump's just the usual thing we've got used to now which is he's he's creepy simpering fondness us towards authoritarians generally or. Is there something in particular about Doin' he likes. I think there's something in particular about auto on and it's the same thing that he he saw initially in Vladimir Putin as well which is he sees a national leader who in trump's view represent does his best to represent and defend the interests of his country And I think that's maybe I would say perhaps one of the pluses of of Donald Trump is that he does to an extent put himself in the place of other people's leaders he understands what what they're therefore and what makes them tick just as he obviously sees his own position in in the United States. This is his philosophy sophy to the extent that he has one that all countries should place themselves. I the the balance of competing interests will somehow work itself out. Yes I think when so you know when so many of us are we say will trump his America first and this is sort of Exclusive to of everybody else's interest. That's not quite true. I I think he regards every country as as having an obligation to put itself I and he doesn't he doesn't have jet for instance you know He. He would expect expect Putin to put Russia I and Edwin Turkey. I and I think maybe some of his misgivings shall we say and his clear awkwardness us in dealing with Theresa May when she was British leader was the fact that maybe he saw a leader and a country. That sort of wasn't putting itself itself. I that was talking about the special relationship putting up I rather than what trump would see as putting national interests first Alec says as you delineated. Take the suspect correctly. Rather has the measure of trump. An you don't need an advanced understanding human psychology. I think at this point to understand and what gets a result from trumpeting it is it is it is flattery it is paying out on his enemies. It is conspiracy and so forth. What does the one actually won't from trump at this point? I think that's quite an interesting question. I mean there are various kind of technical military support. Various things that's going on the he wants but in the more broad sense it's an interesting question because there is a kind of power balance going on a rebalancing with the EU With Europe with an international sphere and with Russia and Turkey has to think hard about where it sits in that In many many of those big power banks have you know represent some interest for them And I mean it's kind of a question of whether he can position himself advantageously sleeve regarding all of that but I think he's certainly noticed the weaknesses supplication does not work with trump. That's actually this show. Strength Does and I think Mary's right. The trump does sort salon to stand that but the problem. I think that trump has that he only understands that he doesn't understand any leader. That has a different mindset nor can he understand what he's being played electrons on I and Mary Digest Key. Thank you both in a moment. Why now is the time for creative? Coalition's you're listening to Molecules House view. Do Stay tuned. This is Monaco's house view. I'm Andrew Miller and finally today Monaco's affairs editor. Christopher chairman offers a crash course in creative you've coalition building theater. It'll be what is up with the global the electric. It seems everywhere. You turn these days. There's another hung. Parliamentary election. Citizens pulled in so many different ideological directions. Parties have no idea Who Partner with as their coalition bedfellows? The latest example comes from Spain where a Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez Center left. Party won a plurality over the weekend but hardly a majority the ideological stances of other parties make Sanchez's options in forming a coalition government. Next to impossible it used to be. The Belgium was the only in Western nations stuck with the tag of being ungovernable. Although it still holds the record for spending the longest time without a government now we can add Spain to a long list of uneasy easy coalitions minority governments or stalled parliament's ranging from Israel Italy candidate Britain in many of these cases parties are not up to the complex challenge orange instead they're going back to the electorate and seeking a new vote. That could provide some clarity spoiler alert. Fresh elections rarely do if you're looking for some optimism. I'd draw your attention to my home country of Austria on Sunday. The Greens voted unanimously to enter into formal coalition talks with Sebastian Kucera's conservative. People's Booze. Party whose partner in the previous government was the far right Freedom Party such a left right. Coalition would be first in Australia's history if and it's a big. If if the two sides can set aside their differences and form a government. They might be bedfellows but this is the hand that politicians are dealt these days. They better find a way to plant. Land knock it off. He's looking at the monocle affairs editor Christian. And that's all for today's show. Molecules House fee was produced by Marco sippy and research by yelling gofundme. Jacker Mohawk Manages Zoe kilborn and Kenya scarlet coming up at twenty twenty hundred London. Time a brand new edition of Monaco on Design Monaco's house view returns. Same time tomorrow. Eighteen hundred London Imagine Moolah. Thanks for listening Matt

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Malala Yousafzai on why educating girls changes everything

The TED Interview

37:15 min | 4 months ago

Malala Yousafzai on why educating girls changes everything

"Hi Elise Hugh, host Ted Talks daily the podcast with a fresh thought provoking ideas from Ted each day, a big question that's recently been on the minds of everyone at Ted, how should companies navigate this time of rapid change? The CEO of Boston Consulting Group Rich Lesser recently sat down with the head of Ted Chris Anderson to talk about the road to recovery and the unique opportunity it presents in the fight against climate change. Stay tuned after the episode to hear a highlight from that conversation. Hello I'm Chris Anderson and welcome to the Ted, interview with the final episode of the season. So I. Think we all could use the dose of courage these days and today's guest has it in spades. In Two thousand twelve Malala Yousafzai was thrust into the global spotlight age fifteen, when the Taliban attacked nearly killed her, because she had criticized the group and their opposition to girls' education. Malala has founded the Malala Fund and travel the world to advocate for girls' rights to education. In twenty fourteen, she became the youngest recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize and in twenty seventeen, the youngest ever U. N. messenger of peace as of the summer. She's also a graduate of Oxford University. Listening to Malala I just I found her seven sparring some moving. This actually the first public interview. She's given in many months. She explains what the pandemic might mean for Girls Education. Safety and health around the world she understood, caused the power of working for change at the local, not only the national level. And she also reveals a bit of her regular self, the young woman who felt the pressure of becoming a global icon at age fifteen, but you can't wait to relax with net flicks. The activist whose role models include very girls she speaks for. My colleague Whitney Pennington Rogers Current Affairs Curator at Ted interviewed. Before a live virtual audience at Ted Two thousand and twenty here is Whitney. I am absolutely thrilled to welcome Malala Yousafzai. Thank you so. An, you know first and foremost. Congratulations on on your graduation. That is amazing. You recently tweeted that there will be lots of sleeping reading and Netflix in your future, and so how's it feel to be finished with college? And what have you been up to these past couple of weeks so honest? Meigs is really long. They were a month long exams and I was just exhausted. I needed a long long break. Right now I am allowing myself to saying that okay. You are allowed to do this for a bit because you need a bit of rest in a bit of break, so so far it's spending time with Family v setting my room because it's still looked like a high school guys room and I was like I'm a graduate now. Anita changed my groom setting. Oil Does, you know. To see that transformation around me as well as much as I see it within me, and now I am unemployed jobs at home, but I'm really happy and really you know just so excited and overwhelmed. That I have graduated from absurd. I finished my undergraduate in philosophy, politics and economics in the box for years have been incredible. I have grown so might I have learned so much from my friends to Jason Professors in everything that I that I saw their. Great well I'm glad to hear that you're actually making good on that tweet to to take some time to rest, so of course is one of the world's most famous advocates for girls' education This is obviously a really huge accomplishment to finish college and I'm curious how this is influenced you as an activist, especially thinking about the fact that you had to head to the West leave Pakistan. To acquire your education, you know what how does this influence your work? My do going studying Oxford and I am just really honored that I got opportunity to studying the you gain and apply to the university that I always aspired to be in. I think this is quite overwhelming because. Life that I expected was that I would continue my secondary schooling in Pakistan that. I'll apply from there and just as described by the San Redo. But you know things. All everything changed in two thousand and twenty when I was attacked and. Had moved to the UK for my treatment for my surgeries, and since then I have been getting education in the UK have been campaigning for other guys education as well because I realized that education is empowering, that are hundred thirteen billion goes. We'll do not have access to it and those guys like me once I was in their place, and I did not have access to school, and I wanted somebody to speak out for me in today. Those girls need voices so I. Am out there speaking for them in also hoping that these guys have applied for their own voices. As you were juggling your studies with your work. How has your work with the Malala Fund in all of your activism evolved in the time since you've been at university to be honest I I had so much energy I was like fifteen sixteen hours, just traveling around the world that was in refugee camps I was in Nigeria was speaking out for the Gulf War veteran by Boko Haram. I went to Iraq as well and I have been to. Brazil has been sort of traveling around the world because I want to meet the guys in allow them to raise their voices provide them apart from where they can seek out. In terms of that, it was quite a lot for me. Because still a school student I now travel and give speed somewhere then the next day all have applause in homework to finish out on night like finish my work in university honest. I did not too much academic pressure on myself. I allowed myself to have fun as well. We glad I did I think I needed that to just spend more time with friends and just sort of be like other students, but at the same time I gave my vacation diamond on my ESTA quantity. My Christmas Lauderda- to. That I do I definitely. Can imagine that it must be hard to live the life of a normal college student on as someone who is as renowned as you are in so that's incredible to hear that you were able to find that balancing college in the way that the average person doesn't. Actually. They have found that young side of myself. I was always surrounded by much in the end those a lot from that, but this was a foster ended. I was engaging with people of my age. Will I love to talk a little bit about your work in house? Connected to this moment thinking about on education for girls, communities around the world have been devastated by the coronavirus pandemic in so many different ways, and could you talk? Talk a little bit to how this global health crisis has impacted access to education, specifically hundred percent like covid nineteen is affecting people globally, and that includes young as well. I'm the Malala Fund we did research and looking into cases like Morla and the research shows that are more than ten million girls who are at risk of losing their education. These are guys who currently would drop out of their schools and mid. Never be able to. To return to their schools, either because of Eilly manages because of those cultural barriers that they face, vans are more likely to prefer early marriage for them than their education, but also a lot of them would be needed into workforce, because they will be a financial option for for the family, and these are the guys who are really vulnerable to being trapped in that, and they may never be able to return to school and this is. Is What happened in the case of Ebola is, but there were many girls who did not return to their schools, and there's is a said the same might happen because in this crisis as well in I think that some people might make argument when you're thinking about what's happening with the pandemic that we should really be focusing our energy on building back. The economy are public health systems and thinking about how to find a vaccine. And that in this moment it could be really easy for the issues for which to advocate to get pushed to the side I'm so. Talk a little bit about why you think it's so important in this moment that we keep the focus on girls education and keep it central to these conversations. I think we should not forget about investing in goes investing in women in the environment, they are sort of the key players in running countries, inviting our economies and It's it's quite easy to forget about that into. Ignore it, but I think. Think. It's time that we push governments and all the responsible authorities to not forget Guzman. They make policies when they make decisions about future I think one thing that is really at risk is financing for education that has been stagnated for the past years. As this that that could go down further that going negative, so we don't want that. I really hope that governments stay committed to financing. Financing goes education, and they remained the sensitive in that ensure there's equity investment in goes education, especially their secondary education I think the second thing would be safety and health. A lot of parents might be concerned about their children's health, especially young girls health when the Sunday go to school, and I think that's something. The policy-makers need to look into that one other issue. That is teen pregnancies. Pregnancies such situations such as the current pandemic are the number of teenage pregnancies would increase, and then the risk is that when he returned to school in many countries in in many local schools may not allow them to return to school, so it's important that those norms are challenge, and even if goes this teenage pregnancies or have become mothers teenage that they are allowed to get back into their education. And I think finally we data. We need to go and research, and also ensure that this is gender disaggregated, and it's important that governor. Baker sponsor ability for that. I see this Cup it being getting ignored, so it's Stein that all the champions, the containers of girl's education of Education in Georgia Nov Women's rights. They come together in. Bring our voices together does so they sort of grow louder in when governments make what sees that our voices in our concerns a hard. talking through. This really strikes me that in this moment you know a lot of the work that you're. You often think about girls in developing countries in how access education is limited in some spaces in the world and I think even now wealthier nations. You're seeing that there are lots of girls who are also not having the axis will that they might have for the pandemic started, so I think it's really interesting to think about how all the things you've just mentioned. Apply to every corner of the world right now. I know our communities watching. They have lots of questions why we take a couple of those right now. You mentioned that you're now seeking employment. What is your dream job? To villainous that are many. When I was probably seven or eight to car-mechanic, because I just thought it looks really cool. But right now I think I am up for anything. From Walking Afam consultancy working with young people especially are really like to see the company that young generation are linked a sustainable future, so would love that and also very much like to take a break len. And travelled by unfortunately because of the damage. That option is is not as I expected it to be. Seen. WHAT OTHER QUESTIONS WE HAVE! Do you feel pressures activists in. How do you balance that with pursuing other passions you have? I think there is pressure is an activist, but it is more soul from me when I started receiving support globally and I was receiving letters and cards. From all across the world, and even now people are sending me beautiful notes and Sin Thousand that I would never be able to respond to all of them. So when you see that growers support when you are at your most difficult times, you have the responsibility to sort of return or payback, and for me being back is to continue welcome for education, and I have remained committed to that, and as I mentioned earlier when I was out of school I wanted somebody to speak from me, so I keep on thinking about that moment. That are many guys right now. Who are asking the same question that asking all of us? What are we doing if we weren't their place, what would we have done? So? That's why think about eleven, Bella and keep on fighting. Let's take one more question right now. As so many young girls are forced into caretaker roles you. This pandemic with parents forced to work or in nineteen. What's the packer were to help host the gap in their education. I think one way in which we can challenge. GENDER-BASED GNOMES is by showing models and examples to people. I think that has a huge impact when we are going golf when we are. Looking at textbooks when you're looking at television, what we're hearing from parents for that young child for the young, all of those things are impacting her. Just important that we look at our curriculum that we look at what we are showing on television in in other Now we have Internet in those shows toward toward children. And what are we setting as sort of the limit for guys? If goes, are to be limited to. With five doors then that's what they might have in their mind, so it's important that we show them that they can be scientists as teachers politicians I'm ministers. Presidents do anything and it's important that we show them. The role models in the women leaders that I know of. They have truly inspired me to believe that yes, women can have their voice on mobile platforms. They can be in those. Positions of policy-making of change making they can presidents prime ministers. They can run the world, and they can countries, so I think when you see. That really has a huge huge impact on you. And, I'm sure for many people. You are also one of those role models, but I'm curious you mentioned that when you see robots of your own. Who are some of those those people who you look up to who inspire you? What we mentioned Martin Luther King and Nelson. Mandela's in there were fighters for equality and against racism and right now. They need to be mentioned whatever for what is going on around the world, especially to do with black lives matter so I think it's to say that their fight is not over yet, but also especially Benazir Bhutto, who was the first female Prime Minister of Pakistan and in the whole Muslim countries, so she was a role model to me, too many young girls to believe that they can become leaders of their country. and. Many more especially when I need. Young Girls have met many goes in in including in refugee camps was Legisla, and she's a few in attempting it up in the smile on her face, and the hoping her is inspired me to believe that there is future future can be for. We can make it better for everyone because this guy in effigy 'em. She's not giving up on her life. She's passionate getting dictionary. She wants to learn new things she she wants it done a one new word every day, and his passionate about changing the saw. That sort of gives you. Off Young guys that I meet there also my. Mood. I wanted to tell you about a put cost. You might enjoy ninety nine percents invisible hosted by Roman Mas, who gave fantastic tedtalk a few years ago. Ninety nine percent invisible is about all the thought that goes into the unnoticed architecture and design shape our world. Ever wonder how inflatable men came to be regular fixtures that used car lots. Curious about the origin of the fortune cookie. Wants to know why women's clothes typically don't have power, it's. Checkout Ninety nine percent invisible wherever you get your podcasts. I love to talk a little bit. Also the current state of of girl's education, so in a Thursday from UNESCO that shows across the world's least-developed nations went from spending less than three years school on average in nineteen, seventy, two, almost nine years in school in two, thousand, seventeen and this growth, definitely in Muros in comparison to what we see wealthier nations where the average amount of time girl spendings will seventeen years, but it definitely. Definitely seems when you think about that and look at those numbers that the situation has been proven, and so when you think about your experience as a little girl in Pakistan, compare that with some of the of the things that you're seeing now through your work of the girls who you just mentioned now. Do you think that things are are getting better? Still are seeing that there are raider opportunities for girls around the world today. That are different ways in which you can look at that firstly in domes of passionate gutters in Gaza activism in seeing young leaders. Among those who want to become that change makers. Yes, hundred and there's hope there's optimism in of the what local activists do. There could be young guys they could be you know men and women who are passionate about. Bringing education into their communities, they could be walking in the most deprived the most marginalized rural areas from Pakistan from Nigeria to Brazil to in all these countries and looking at activism with limited resources, and with so much hard work, and with so many difficulties that is truly inspiring, and that gives you that would this session? Yes, we will see change, but then when you look at the government level, and that global level in terms of. Resources are and how much is missing. How much is lacking in that? That is something that really concerns me and I hope that were leaders make good commitments towards education. They make commitments towards financing the secondary education of guys deported education of girls, safer location of. But also fulfill those commitments. Sometimes they make commitments, but they hardly fitted that, so it's important that we keep on pushing leaders to stick to what they have committed. And adult talk about that a more how we can keep leaders. Accountable. How can ensure that they stay committed to this? You know one of the. UN Sustainable Development actually to one is focused on quality education for all and then women's equality. The UN hopes that we would achieve this by twenty thirty, which is now just ten years away and curious how you think we can actually do the work making that happen. How can we as individuals hold governments accountable? What sort of things would you like to see from governments to to show that? They really are making strides towards seeing this happen. So, I think there are many ways that an individual can help whether that is writing a letter tour MP to a promoting it in starting that message on social media, you know tagging them writing a letter to them engaging in campaigning that is going on for a gold education, but another way which I truly believe in is that we need to support local activists local educators, and that is the mission that Milan has been working on over the last two years. We started just Manala on education. Activist Network on, and we are supporting more than sixty activists around the world in more than seven or eight. Eight countries and they're also currently changing their work. According to word how Colbert has changed things for them, for instance in Nigeria activists are using radio to give lessons and engaging education related content to children, because that's of the means that walks there, but on the other hand focused on the champions are walking on using obstacles, also national television, because that's something that people engage with the most, so I think it's working with the local community that really important, and in that you can support me or other organizations were focusing on that you know. My father and I started as local activists in Swath Valley so. I understand what it means when you give even sort of liquor support to. Local activist it? It impacts their hugely in it helps them in so many ways to improve their work and detailed many more guts great. listen examples. There are the truth seen in Pakistan and other parts of the world of things that people are doing and other nations that you look to in. Thank you know while they've really figured this out. They're really getting it right in this in this way and that you think nations can look to as models for how to implement some of these strategies for for girls in their own countries. I think in terms of like what is the ideal sort of modern together education? I don't think there is consensus on that yet. In terms of the country that we're working in where I did. A number of goes to is the highest it depends on the were like Lebanon there using these small electronic devices the Shura a which has a all the educational content that that those children need for that age, and does not require that much electricity. It can be connected to multiple computers, and they're very helpful in refugee camps, and they using it was hidden effigy goals on that also trying to promote it on the sort of country level in Lebanon as well so the it sort of. Varies across countries where we're working. On the one hand, it is a digital device on the other hand individual than in other country. It's it's an hour. It's the national television so I think that's one of the bottom of approach that we might need because there's not that sort of one solution if you I don't know Sendai talks to the north of Nigeria and there's lack of electricity and Internet that might not work, so it's important that you engage with the local activist and sort of fine. What is best for that area? But we have tons and tons of questions coming in from our communities. Little why we take a couple of those right now. As a male university professor can others like me in society as a whole offer to support your passion helping me be the best allies for you. one way is to gone Malala firms that site, a lot of dot organ. There are many ways outline there. You can become a supporter. You can engage on our platform quite some new assemblies, a platform way younger share their stories and I remember when I was a blogging as an eleven year old guy, sharing my story of what my life was like under the Taliban, and a lot of people registered a lot of people listened to the supported me. So many stories out there where you go, are trillions by you in you know when you see the commitment that passionate hard work I just incredible. In! Boys and men to buy into the importance of empowering girls and women when my father has sort of been advocating that you obvious shares his story of how he was. Celebrating the birth of his daughter, while his relatives and everyone else was telling my mom that next I, and hopefully she would have a son when I was bone, so my has always celebrated me as his daughter, and he was stationed about God's creation so when you have men, role models who water openly and vocally feminist who? Not just celebrity tell people that women are equipped to men, but the practical you short. I think that's the men we need. Who Win say that they had giving equal opportunities to their golfers. They will allow them to do any job. They will allow them covid sisters. The same opportunities as boys have that there are so many ways in which men can had been there. There very much needed. Because when we talk on the biggest scale that's where the problem lies so when we talk about the decisions that are made in a room in more CDs. Wendy's about women. What you see that there are men sitting on the table then there's a lack of women's representation. There is sometimes no woman on on the table, so it's important that. Provide Room for women to be on. Those staples were decision about their future. Their body are made so women's presents. Women's voices are very much needed, and I hold that men and boys need to sort of stand up for that and defended women's equality. Let's take another question. You're I. Understand that the number of girls attending school has improved greatly let the quality of education is often lacking. What are your thoughts on the best ways to improve the quality of education once the girls are able to be in school. I one hundred percent agree you know when we talk about the girls out of school that numbers in millions, but the girls were in school in are not learning. That number is also millions, and that is concerning because you know in in future, there would be a more than a billion. Guz who would not be to participate in the task for requirements that are needed at that time so. There's a concern that if does not quality education. They're not receiving education about acknowledged that they might need in future. They were not ready to participate in the economy, and also I personally think that we need gender sensitive curriculum I'll we need awareness about sexuality? We need awareness about person production, and I think this is very much needed especially for young girls, so they're like teaching me on focus is on one is financing flirtation. There's a huge gap in that in. That's what we have been pushing for. The second is quality of education and with that. We're working with local activists as well looking into technology in making gender sensitive. And does the last is social norms that prevent us from going to school? Let's they were questioned on diva plans to go back to Pakistan. How much of your future advocacy deep into focus in your home country? So advocacy has been focused in bags. Son, we have been doing projects there and village that my father comes from showing La what by friends are from that village, and there was no secondary school for girls, and when I no started activism, and then I was receiving the Nobel Peace Prize, and at the time I felt like I need to start from my home. Country and I need to start from that village, so I donated that money towards that. That project so in Pakistan. We have been walking on their school now. Girls are studying in school. The first secondary school in that village and everybody is just full so excited, and all the girls are so excited to be in their school and also hard one time that they were given sort of their break, and a lot of guys just complain that they don't want breaks, and they just want to be in school, because it has provided that safety and that opportunity to be creative and have their time with their friends that they may not be able to get otherwise, so that has been working bugs on. We want to do even more and we are. Cutting or advocacy for the next few years. I definitely want to go to Pakistan that is my home country and and I love where I'm from Swat Very. It's one of the most beautiful base ever seen. We are surrounded by these mountains, and these beautiful rivers saw its via. have are so hopefully whenever this fender make. restrictions are lifted in whenever things back moment. I would love to go back to Pakistan. And you've mentioned how. Important is having voices, and we've seen so many other people in so many other spaces, standing up, and speaking out against injustice and inequality, calling out leaders, he will like gratitude Berg and Emma Gonzalez. The young people leading Hong Kong, umbrella movement, and so many others and I think a generation is definitely at the center of so much social change, and in many ways. You are the first the mother of the Youth Activism Movement and so I'm curious what you think about as you see so many young people making no change out there in the world. To honest when I started my activism as A. Ten or eleven year old girl. What really helped me? Would really embarked me was support from my father and my teachers and other people who believe in my voice that age. Anyone could have easily told me that Malala your eleven. You have no right to say anything about these days. He is issues and you can go sit in your room. Do some drawing and read some books in that said. But I'm glad that my father and others stood by me. They valued. My voice disappointed me, and this is needed more than ever so I. I'm glad that I believe in myself and I step forward and I took my sexy right from the start. Other people don't listen to me. That doesn't matter as long as I keep on fighting I, know that they will add some point, but when I saw doubting myself I think that's the time when I when I sort of fade. So when I'm seeing is young leaders. Speaking with whether for climate change and what gun control? In, Gaza talking about you know freedom and freedom of expression and that just. I. Feel Soso. Happy I cannot express. In words and I hope that this group of young activists in bigger and bigger, we are the future we care about our future. We want to healthier. We want to save. We want a better world for all of us on I. think that we need to start activism now because there's a so so much that needs to be done in. That needs to be fixed. And? Do you think that this moment is different in some ways from the past? Do you frame this time in comparison to maybe when you? First started being vocal about girl's education. Of ingred, five or six on start speaking out. Highly when you are young, you want to envision what your future is going to be like and you always wait for that moment when your studies would be completed, and you would not have those sorts of constraints around you. That keeps your activism or Joe Moment. limited for me now when I have completed my studies. I feel some woman that I am looking. Looking forward to doing gotTA SORTA flashback in looking back at you know what I have achieved so far. What could I have done differently in what is next? and I do like the sense of urgency. That is right now. Arjun see for change whether that is to do with climate change whether it's to do with they should justice whether that is to do. A quantity against sexism or these things I just love the sense of urgency, because it is pushing all of us to do something now, because if we keep on waiting I just think there's never that moment where you feel. This is the right moment to challenge the system because of you might end up waiting for your life so curious you know. What what do you see for yourself? In in ten years twenty years, and even at the end of your lifetime when you look back and see what you've accomplished. What are you really hoped? Your your greatest impact on history will be. My biggest biggest dream Waesche is to see everyone in school. That has been my dream. Since the day when I myself was out of school I visited moment when I woke up on the fifteenth of January. Two thousand nine and I could not go to school. This was because the Taliban had bengals education in Swat, and nobody was allowed to go back to school and I realize that education was more than just learning from textbooks and more than just writing and reading. It was about emancipation for women I felt it more vulnerable to being a married at early age to being discriminated, not being able to achieve my dreams that was to become a doctor or a teacher, so these are the things that are taken away from you at the same time. Since then have stayed committed to girls, education and I hope that in my lifetime I see that I believe in it, you know sometimes it sounds sort of tool optimistic, but I think we can do it other than I think. There's a lot more defects I. We need to do a lot more about empowering women allowing us to dream big. Dreams of beyond what society gets them to do and I want to see more women in leadership i. want to see women running. She's I want to see women. You know running companies in big thumbs and going to stay in. Working in technology and being barred of all sector that are out there so I hope to see that in my lifetime. Than what inspires a lot of people and what makes so many people look to you as a source of of of hope. Is this fearlessness that you seem to have this this feeling that you can sort of take anything on and I'm curious. What makes you afraid? I guess in this moment on, and then finally what? What makes you most hopeful, but what scares you? Think, what scares me? Is. Probably being too slow and not being Not, being true to myself I have always believed in activism. I've always believed in change and I. Think it is possible. If you stay committed to it so I hope that I stay committed to it and I hope that I'm honored by Dr Feet, but who guide me in the bought a and and it is true. People get exhausted. People get tired. People lose whole. Change that surrounded by people who might have been encouraging them not to speak our, because just telling them that it could be controversial, or they might go support. All those things are there and I think it stinks strong in the middle of those constraints that are out there. So I think that's something that I really hope that we all continue to have What gives me? Hope is the hope that young people have in in this generation they are the future, and I'm really really happy and hopeful that they will be change makers, and they will in for this world. They would fix what. Our fathers and forefathers have sort of the mistakes that they have made. They'll fix the system that they have created. It might take time, but we will stay committed to it, and we will make a while that is fair and equal for everyone. Okay. Is it the season. Thank you so much for tuning in you know. If you have feedback, we would love to hear it. You can write a review on apple podcasts or email us at podcast Ted Dot Com. We read every piece of feedback weekend. We'll be back later this year. With more episodes of the had interview so a big. Thank you to pass Thima. Editors Grace Rubinstein a podcast producer. Kim defamed pizza and our production managers and a Falen. Shows Mixed by David Herman. Our theme music is by Alison late and Brown. Thank you, our listeners stay well. In the wake of so much uncertainty, rich lesser, the eeo of Boston. Consulting Group shares a potential silver lining that could lead us to a healthier planet at a time when governments are investing so much to help workers and individuals, but also to help businesses, there are opportunities to use this moments or relates to how investments are made to encourage more holistic reporting of results in use this as a moment to encourage companies to. If they're going to take this aid, the babe responsibility not just to report their financial results, but but in a broader stakeholder sense, the yes G. Measures. To, start to report, those those would be meaningful both from an investment sense, and from a reporting sense to move things forward. But we also have to remember on the flip side. There are many people and many businesses facing enormous stress. In their personal finances stresses in their balance sheets, and of course, when the stresses so urgent and immediate something that like climate that seems more off can be pushed back, so I think it will take a lot of really dedicated focused to not totally lose sight of the climate agenda this very near-term, highly pressured environment. To check out the interview had to Ted. Dot Com slash BCG.

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The Biden Whisperer: Sen. Chris Coons

The Takeout

38:53 min | 1 year ago

The Biden Whisperer: Sen. Chris Coons

"Five. Major garrett. Yes, CB's. Yes. I. Major Garrett from the nation's capital major phantasm. It's the takeout. Major with CBS news chief Washington, correspondent better that's nonsense. Major garrett. Nobel welcome to the best part of my broadcast week. I major Garrett host and creator of this amazing program known as the takeout where we are two things each and every week what are those two things well one relentlessly curious and to steadfastly, non ideological, right, left and centre. Always here. The takeout podcast Boyd. We have a lot of issues to cover this week. And we've got a newsmaker who's going to help us. Do that is is Chris coons democratic Senator from Delaware, Delaware, the first state. I'm not gonna explain that. Dear people, look it up. Chris coons, great heavy at the microphone great to be with you the Dubliner restaurant. It's pied day. So for all those celebrants of that famous irrational number get your pie day on St Patrick's Day is approaching. So we will have something appropriately Saint Patrick's themed as far as our food. Why she goes with the Dubliner one of our favorite restaurants right near Capitol Hill, a great Irish bar here in the nation's capital. So Chris coons is within the confines of the United States. Senate. The Joe Biden whisperer, okay? He occupies Joe Biden's former seat in the United States Senate from the state of Delaware Delaware earlier this week Caccia. This is number two. Chris coons said this. He's told me that he is all but certain he's going to run. He's feeling very optimistic about the prospects. And is preparing for a run. But has not made that final decision. I expect that soon. Okay. So the operative. He there is Joe Biden. Yes. When is soon. Sometime in the coming weeks. I'll tell you that he and Jill still have some things I think they need to pray on and reflect on before just making that final decision. But as he conveyed it to me and to others. He's ninety five percent in. He's putting together the the structure that you need to have a successful launch. I think he's got clear and bold ideas about where to take our country, personally, I'm attracted by just how deep is experiences. How strong his heart is and how well he connects with Americans who feel and are left out overlooked forgotten folks who've been knocked down by life. I've watched Joe in person comfort and encourage and lift backup widows who've lost husbands and combat grandparents who've lost a child unexpectedly families who've really struggled with illness. He understands what it means to work hard to get knocked down by life and get back up again. And he is someone who is clear. Right about the differences in the challenges we face in our country. But rather than seeing those cracks in our society and trying to widen them for his own partisan advantage as some have done in our recent politics. He inspires us to look pass them and to actually solve our problems. So when you say he's ninety five percent there. This is just a matter of time choosing when he's going to nounce, that's almost certainly the case. You know, look he knows ninety one going to run he's going to run. This is a tough choice. This is something that in a look I have three kids whom I adore. If I knew the way that President Trump has behaved in past campaign cycles, I hesitate those of us who run for office. We've all on tier for this. But dragging our families through what will almost certainly be despicable uncalled for personal attacks. I mean, look at what he did to his opponents in two thousand sixteen when he didn't have substance to go after them. He made it up. Right. I would hesitate if I were at the same judo former vice president Biden, I don't know. Nearly as well as you do. But I've covered him in congress nineteen ninety I know him somewhat. Well, I know his sense of personality that everything you just said is more recent for him to run to say I'm against that. That's wrong. That's not what America ought to be should be an I'm even more encouraged or motivated to run that's not something that would tonight. My understanding of Joe Biden discourage him from running. It would fire him up as far as I'm concerned. That's right knowledge, when he sees the ways in which our president is shredding our relationships globally and weakening our position in the world by either taking for granted or taking advantage of allies have stood bias for seven decades. I'm Joe knows in his gut. What that means what we're giving up. What we're losing? I was just at the Munich security conference a few weeks ago with a big and bipartisan delegation from congress. And for me that conference was in no small part, the tale of two vice presidents and vice president Pence did his absence. Best as a spokesperson for President Trump to make the case for the Trump administration's policies around the world was greeted with resounding cold silence. Joe Biden spoke about a different vision in a different path forward for leadership for the United States in the world and got standing applause. I know I know we don't run our political campaigns for applause in Europe. But they don't they don't vote. The I will caucus. Dotted electoral vote constituency, but young men and women from Iowa have been going overseas and serving serving in some cases, sacrificing and giving everything they can for this country over seven decades to build a global system that has kept us secure and prosperous, and I think Joe and his gut gets that. And I think our president treats the American people like we're the chumps of history, and somehow we've been taken by NATO and buyer allies in in the Pacific, and I don't think that's correct. That's just one of many ways, I look forward to his or the soundbite cut a number one. This is former vice president Biden earlier this week the firefighters legislative conference here in Washington DC. I appreciate the energy you show when I got up here. Save a little longer. I may need a few weeks. Why? Because. No one else is it when else's jumping in this week today. Bedroll Rourke jumped in why? Because why wait, you know? Look, I think make him look hesitant or decisive out of Joe's indecisive at all. I think Joe understands just how demanding and how challenging a presidential campaign is better than anyone better than anyone. He understands what it means to have your feet squarely under you and a in a clear plan envisioned for the luxury of being able to wait he has the luxury, and he has the respect for the American people that he's not just going to ride down a golden crusted staircase in a. New York and start, you know, sort of blurting out whatever comes to his mind. He's not the anointed one he knows he's going to have to fight for it and earn it is the underdog. You know, look, I think anyone stepping into a ring against Donald Trump should recognize that he has made a successful political career at being underestimated. I certainly didn't see Donald Trump when he first filed when he first announced his candidacy as the likely winner not just of the primary, but of the president presidency. I'll remind you for years ago at this point, everyone was talking about governor Scott Walker and in governor, Jeb Bush. Yup. And nobody who is a serious political analyst gave Donald Trump even two percent of a chance when he was endorsed by a Senator sessions the rest of the Republicans in the Senate yet. Yeah. That's that's really nice, Jeff like, right, fool's errand. And he is president. So I think Joe capable fact has seen enough of the changes and vagaries and eb and flow of politics in this country to recognize that the folks in this country who made Donald Trump, president deserve to be heard and. Deserve someone who steps forward with a clear concise and positive vision for where they're gonna take this country. Is he the underdog in the democratic nomination fight? Look the best way to run as someone who is about to run for reelection race self you always run as an underdog. If you take it for granted, the American people have long habit of handing, your your papers. Let me ask you this. There is a body of thought about vice president former vice president Biden that he looks much better on paper than he doesn't reality. And I covered his campaign in two thousand eight he gave great speeches had good town halls went nowhere all the experience that he brought to bear there is he's got. Okay. Eight years as vice president. It wasn't as if he lacked experience I'll tell you quick story in Iowa when Benazir Bhutto the prime minister of Pakistan was killed Joe Biden went to the Mike's within hours had well understood description of what that meant what the moment was. How to America should adapt respond who should talk to all the sort of stuff Hillary Clinton. Barack Obama didn't saving for a full day. The next day. They said almost the exact same thing who got the credit Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama fighting got zero credit. My point is I've watched this plan. Does he have it? What tells you? He's got it this time from this had it before from the story. You just told major what Biden has is deep experience and the ability to put it into practice almost immediately upon the development of some global crisis. I would hope that the American people having lived through a presidency of someone who had no previous experience in public service, either military or elected would at this point look at it and say, now's the time for someone with character and experience that's worse. Chris coons segment one is over we're heading to segment to or at the Dubliner. I major Garrett. This is the ticket back in the second. From CBS news. This is the takeout with major Garrett. That's me. So the first segment all about Joe by because why our guest Chris coons democratic Senator from Delaware, Joe, Biden whispers, so we're going to move on because Joe Biden is going or whatever, and we'll have Chris coons back or we'll have Joe Biden here because he's gonna wanna talk to the takeout as he runs for the presidency, which he is, of course, going to Scott's at the table. Hello Scott in his Ken for lunch. I'll have the corn beef and cabbage clubs shepherd's pie. There we go. Thanks got. All right. A lot of things happening this week. Let's just go straight to the Senate this week voted against the president's policy in Yemen and against his hands off approach to the Saudi Arabian kingdom was that vote only about Jamal kashogi. Or was it also about the underlying humanitarian refugee crisis in Yemen and trying to tell the kingdom you can't. Get everything you want the United States government. I think it's about three things. I agree that it's about the humanitarian values catastrophe of an American based journalist being not just lured into a consulate tortured and murdered. But then being denied and covered up by a close ally the Saudi kingdom and trying to send a clear and forceful message to a young crown prince that actions like that are not acceptable. No matter how important you are strategically no matter how important you are militarily, we have values, and they matter in can't violate them so publicly so brazenly without consequences. First second, it is about a building concern that the humanitarian crisis in Yemen has avoidable elements and that targeting of civilians by our Saudi allies, something we have worked in a determined and diligent way to try and reduce has not gotten better if anything has gotten worse, and as a result, I think. Many of us who initially were hesitant to signal any sort of reduction in our support for a vital ally of gradually became persuaded between those two in combination that this was not the right path third. It's about President Trump failing to lead on human rights issues and cozying up to dictators like Detaille and creating distance with our closest allies like the Canadians, the French the British with whom we have long fought for a free press role of law and human rights around the world, and recognizing that we cannot sustain our global leadership with a president who takes the word of the dictator of North Korea or the president of Russia over our own intelligence community when it comes to critical human rights and electoral matters related to that in the president's budget released this week, there is a substantial reduction in a lot of international aid programs. Yes, when asked to defend that a senior administration official told me this week. Well, we sort of believe what Louie Gohmert a Republican in the house of Representative believes, which is why should we pay people to hate us when they'll hate us for free. That was their definition of an explanation and a defense of cutting these international aid program. He response that's a profoundly ill informed understanding of what we are doing in terms of our partnerships around the world, I'm let me take you also know in some bars in Delaware. Some people would not at that. Sure. Absolutely. There are there are people all over our country who mistakenly think we spend twenty or thirty percent of our total federal budget on foreign aid. When in reality, it's less than one percent. There are lots of folks in my state and around the country who think that our foreign aid is wasted is ineffective is not noticed and is not appreciated as someone who chaired the Africa subcommittee of the foreign relations committee. My first four years and went on bipartisan trips to refugee camps and to desperately poor places in the world that are at risk of moving from being fragile states to failed states. I will tell you that our intervention to try and fight HIV aids to. Stop the pandemic of A Bola in Liberia is noticed is affective is appreciated and lays a foundation of respect for the United States in difficult and dangerous parts of the world. That is a great investment. Don't take my word for it. The former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff in testifying in front of a bipartisan committee said if you continue these cuts if you make cuts of this scale to our foreign assistance, you're simply going to have to by the department of defense more bullets because it will create more terrorists. If I recall correctly Gimenez, the former Defense Secretary under this president said, I want a strong State Department yet because a strong State Department means I don't have to have as many bullets or as many people firing. That's who I was paraphrase. Exact right. Okay. There's another big issue before the Senate day. Resolution of disapproval the president's declaration of national emergency on the border. It's going to pass which means the president will have to veto it as of this taping. They can stop six Republicans. Maybe as many as twelve are. We seeing on this issue and even related with Yemen. A wholesale distancing of Republicans from this president. Or is it just at the margins just at the margins? I think if if there were a real risk of the veto being overridden, it would be a wholesale rejection of the president. A striking development last year. Was that the president our president kept saying, you know, I believe Putin. I don't believe our intelligence community. I don't think we should be taking action aggressively against Russia's sanctioning them for their interference in our twenty sixteen elections and a bipartisan effort picked up steam both in the foreign relations committee, and then in the Senate is a whole, and ultimately the Bill that's called a countering America's adversaries through sanctions act, which the president lobbied against pushed against threatened to veto initially passed ninety eight to two that I would call a repudiation. So it has been rare in the time that Trump has been president. But there have been a few instances that have been clear and forceful where Republicans who have a different set of values and priorities, whether it's on foreign relations, foreign assistance or on the scope of presidential power have brushed him back. And one of the key questions is whether. Or not the president. And his core advisor team will continue to adapt to that. Or we'll simply keep at this. I think unsupportable effort around creating a multibillion dollar wall, but give my audience the benefit of your expertise and your accessability to other Republicans you're on the floor of the Senate. Does it feel different? Do you feel a sense of either if not decoupling a reassessment of you the president personally his policies or his tea is something cracking that wasn't cracking a year ago? Look secretary Jim Madison, former four-star Marine Corps general one of the most respected and decorated military leaders of our time resigned in protest over President Trump's ill considered an abrupt decision to withdraw all American troops in Syria, a decision that he apparently made in the middle of a phone call with president air to one of Turkey and our closest allies while combat operations were underway. Learned about on Twitter, that's unprecedented. And again at the security conference. I was just at in Europe. The pushback from our closest allies was clear and forceful and Republicans have led the effort to persuade President Trump to change his mind and. To leave behind a small holding force of several hundred American troops that was the right strategic choice. And I do wanna compliment some of my colleagues Senator Lindsey Graham principally led this effort at seeing what was a tactical mistake and persuading President Trump to change his mind. All right. We're going to go to break you in a little bit. But I want to see something up, by the way Scottish just brought our food lickety-split. Really good pass turnaround. Very well done Scott. Nancy Pelosi said something that was very interesting. This week told the Washington Post I and talked to reporters on Capitol Hill. This is sound bite number four Conte on play. It. Full even that they wanted me to impeach President Bush for the Iraq war. I didn't believe in it. Then they don't believe in. Now it divides the country unless there's some conclusive evidence that takes us to that place speaker Pelosi Nancy Pelosi the topic impeachment. She told the Washington Post she's against impeachment now based on what is known now. It's divisive and Democrats should back off until evidence presented some agree or disagree. I agree impeachment is a political process. It is the only means under the constitution for congress to exercise its will and removed from office a president who has disqualified himself through and the language is high crimes and misdemeanors as we saw under President Clinton when he was impeached by the house, but not removed by the Senate it can devolve into a slow grinding partisan exercise that is ultimately unconstructive. What speaker Pelosi was saying in that clip was given that we don't yet know, what's. Special counsel. Robert Muller has uncovered about whether there was or wasn't clear and intentional collusion or conspiracy between the president and his campaign and Russia to interfere with our last election. It is premature to reach a conclusion about impeachment hold that thought. We're gonna let you finish it on the other side of the break, and we're gonna have some more lunch. I major take back a second. From CBS news. This is the takeout with major Garrett comeback worth the Dubliner lunches, really really good corned beef and cabbage on Saint Patrick's Day week. Awesome. Chris coons, our special guests democratic Senator from Delaware. Joe, Biden, whisperer and smart guy. I'm just telling you, we've talked a lot of a lot a lot of issues guy knows his stuff. So what was you agree with Nancy Pelosi speaker of the house now is not the time for impeachment? You talked about the mullet report is that the only issue that could lead to impeachment. No there's other ways in which President Trump has misused his office arguably for personal gain or arguably in wasted. If put our national interest at risk that I think if thoroughly and properly investigated could lay the groundwork for that. But I agree with what speaker Pelosi saying, given what we know in front of us, given what we have now and given the timing of a likely impeachment process, which would drag on for months and months, we may be better off. Off trying to legislate responsibly and address real problems that face average Americans and let the American people decide because at the end of the day impeachment is about overriding, the judgment of the American electorate, and that's something we should do very carefully very cautiously. And was that really part of her strategic process to say to Democrats, if this is all we are about we will hurt ourselves possibly create a martyr image around this president and do more damage to our agenda and the twenty twenty election than you concurrently. Imagine in twenty twenty the average American is going to look at the Democratic Party in our nominee and the Republican party and President Trump and the question is who's going to make more of a difference for you and your family for your future. And if all they know about us is that we think the president. Is a bad guy or crazy guy or however, it's characterized that's not enough that did not work for Hillary Clinton that will not work for whoever our nominee is the Democratic Party owes it to the American people to put forward a positive forward looking concrete and achieve -able agenda that the average American. Here's and says, yes, you get it. That's what I'm worried about fixed that if we're not doing that because we're spending all of our time saying, look, Donald Trump. He's not the greatest guy. He has problems. We are not meeting the goal here. If we want folks to give us back the keys and let us drive for the next four years. We darn well better tell them where we wanna go, and it better be a place. They believe we ought to go in that regard getting back to buy for a second. Is he too old is his time past there were some indications in some of the early polls that that is a conversation democratic primary and caucus voters, or at least asking themselves and having has Biden's time come and gone. Well. You know, that's something. I think our primary voters will decide for themselves on the campaign trail. Let me say what I've seen. I'm fifty five. I ran around the country and campaign for candidates. I supported in two thousand sixteen Joe did five times as many events as I did in virtually every state bet man crisscrossed the country with a ferocity energy, focus, and positively I cannot match so I'll tell you most of the other candidates. I don't think can match Joe's energy I second. He's about the same age as our current president third. There is a candidate who in two thousand sixteen was attracting crowds of tens of thousands of college students who is about the same age as Joe Biden and served in the Senate for decades. So I'll just say I don't think at the end of the day that really matters to voters. I think what they care about. But they will speak. It's the voters to tell us with daycare about is your integrity, your heart and your vision. Do you understand us? You know, what it means to be knocked down and get back up. Again. Do you know what it means to be from a part of our country that feels left out or is left out. And do you have a path forward that I can actually be inspired by the excited about if you can get to? Yes. On those three. I don't think the average can really cares about your age under the umbrella of do you get us? Do you understand? This are you aware of us some African American democratic voters might look at the crime Bill of nineteen ninety-five and save while the rhetoric and the intensity of that legislation which to some analysts led to mass incarceration in our country might save. Do you get us? And there are some women who might look at the Anita hill hearings, which he presided over his chairman of the judiciary committee and say do you get us? Now, you didn't seem to get us. Then do you get us now address Bo twenty-five years ago, there was both a crime Bill and a confirmation hearing that we're very contentious. And if you look at them and listen to them only in the context of that time some of it will strike our ears wrong today. What we have to do is remember three things. First the ninety four crime, though, also included the assault weapons ban. And those who were there at the time. I believe will fill in the record and make it clear that Joe Biden improved the crime Bill in ways that created alternative paths for folks who are nonviolent offenders to end up in front of a drug court and in rehab and back in the community rather in long term incarceration, but I suspect this is an argument we're going to have for months ahead. Second is he girded for that? You know what? I hope. I fight. And I hope that he gets to focus on looking forward. Because if we're driving the car looking through the rear view mirror and fighting over stuff that happened twenty-five thirty or forty years ago, but you know. Interested in caucus voters lists are they're gonna listen to you. I don't mean to disrespect, but they're gonna want to hear from Joe they are he needs a concise answer, but he needs to move forward. Second. On Anita hill, I know him as someone who has fought relentlessly to combat sexual assault to make right? The things that are wrong in our country for women particularly women who've been on the receiving end of abuse or violence, and I hope and expect that some of his colleagues who were there then and who know him now we'll step forward and speak compellingly about just how hard he has worked over how many years not just on the violence against women act, but on making sure that we've got leadership in our party and our country that reflects the full diversity of our society last wears, his heart. He has a heart for folks who've come up the hard way who've had a tough experience in life who've been discriminated against in our society and for not just asking politely, but kicking down doors of discrimination. He someone who was moved to run the very first time in nineteen seventy two by what he saw in our hometown of Wilmington, Delaware of racial, discrimination and gender discrimination. And he has a law. Long and deep and positive record of leadership on these issues that I look forward to laying out in the months ahead. But frankly, more than anything, I think his leadership in the Obama Biden administration and the forward looking agenda that he's going to lay out in the next couple of weeks Israeli or we need to say on this topic. So whereas announcement going to be I don't know, Delaware. I hope headquarters, I don't know, Delaware. I hope better will work said is headquartered could be an L Paso could for him. That'd be the geography matters. The geography matters shouldn't be washed and shouldn't be New York shington. I'll say this. You know, Joe was born in Scranton, Pennsylvania, maybe baby and has deep and personal roots in Scranton. And I respect that. I am from Wilmington, Delaware. He moved to Wilmington as I did as a young boy, your baby, I was born in Connecticut. There's a lot of us who moved to Delaware. But Delaware has been his adopted home state for decades, and I'll just speak up for you know, I think are. Plucky little state whose moniker is the small wonder. Yes, don't deserve. Chickens in Delaware ratio is still three hundred chickens to everyone Delaware resident I think it might be much higher much higher than. Almanac of American politics. Three hundred chickens every one person in Delaware, plucky state. Be. Sure. Absolutely. So Scranton or Wilmington will be the campaign headquarters. You know, I think New York is very good. Very geographic kind of decision. Joe still needs to make still needs to make. Okay. Got it. Talked to my audience a little bit about this debate that the White House most fervently wants to engage your party in socialism. Look let let me remind you when social security was first proposed by FDR. It was denounced as socialism when Medicare was first proposed by LBJ. It was denounced as socialism. If that socialism, I guess I'm for it. I am a proud capitalist. I think capitalism is a far superior system to socialism. But we have a lot of young people who don't really know the difference between a system where the state owns the means of production controls, the economy and assistant where individual entrepreneurship, and the creativity and vibrancy of the capitalist system. Unleashes potential and opportunity for millions Democrats typically are critics of capitalism in less. It is appropriately. Regulated in ways that create opportunity for the broadest possible range of our people having just come through the excesses of the oh eight. Oh, nine financial collapse. There's a lot of younger people who look at capitalism and say doesn't look so great. And mistakenly think socialism is about being social no, it's not it's about a system of government that you, and I know very well from when we were much younger than actually ultimately does not lead to opportunity for all those this break, I'm going to ask Senator coons about whether it is part of the obligation of the democratic nomination process to explain the difference. You just outlined back in a second. I major Garrett takeout. From CBS news. This is the takeout with major Garrett. That's me won't back. Chris coons democratic Senator from the plucky state of Delaware is our special guests. So you just described part of this education process that you believe would be instructive helpful socialism capitalism. Do you think that in the coming months as Democrats Spar with one another as they will? And when Joe Biden gets in he'll be part of this morning. This has to be explained that your party has an obligation to explain this socialism thing because at president as you know, he's already proven it river soundbite to this affect do. We not catch on if you're the president over vice president Pence, what does that number number three? Thank you for putting up three fingers cut. You a run that William under the guise of what's called Medicare for all in the green new deal liberals in Washington and in the national debate, arm bracing the same. Tired economic theories that have impoverished nations and stifled the liberties of millions? That system is socialism. So the White House wants to ram this down the democratic party's throat when you hear the vice president talk as he just did do you quake in your political boots? I do not I think two of the most popular things that have been done in American political history are social security and Medicare and the next time, we do an interview I hope to be armed with the tape in which Republican senators on the floor of the Senate decried, the socialism of FDR and the socialism of LBJ, and I'll tell you if you were to put to a vote do you want to repeal Medicare? Do you want to repeal social security? I'll tell you it's intensely unpopular because millions of Americans have relied on those two programs whose benefits they earn through work for their retirement and their healthcare. Now, it is timely because President Trump just delivered to congress a budget. Yes in which. In order to pay for making permanent, a massive tax cut for the wealthy. He proposes huge cuts to Medicaid and Medicare something he said he would not do in his two thousand sixteen campaign. So if President Trump or vice president Pence will decry us as socialists, I'll say he someone who didn't keep his campaign pledge and keep his hands off Medicaid Medicare, and is instead trying to cut one of the most valued treasured programs where Americans earn their way towards healthcare and use it to pay for tax cut for his friends. Senator are my audience knows I love to nerd out on lots of different topics. So here's a nerd out minute from your host in that budget. And you can listen to me don't believe me entirely go to the committee for a responsible federal budget. They analyze the Trump budget release just this week and noted that many of the cost savings in Medicare are exactly the same as proposed by whom President Obama. As part of the Affordable Care Act a piece of legislation and law to cry by Republicans as socialism precisely so just put those two things together. The Senator doesn't like the wreck recommended reductions in Medicare committee for responsible federal budget is generally favorable to the because it takes on the entitlement spending. Which is a big driver of deficits and debts fine. But to just square the circle and what what is day all about. Besides try to square the circle, ladies and gentlemen, come on. So that was good Caccia that was much better so much better than you know, really. It was really good. These ideas embraced by the previous administration to cry by Republicans, then as one-size-fits-all government run amok socialism is now part and parcel of the president's vary owned budget. So just chew on that for a moment or two your thoughts. Can I geek out one step further, which I think is important who all the way down the geek rabbit hole. So to cuts that I think are indisputably cuts that President Obama did not propose and that President Trump is proposing. A five billion dollar cut to the NIH the national institutes of health a seven billion dollar cut to the National Science Foundation. What do these two geeky sounding organizations do? And h funds advanced medical research in universities and hospitals all over the United States that have the potential to discover life, saving or life extending treatments or cures for conditions from Alzheimer's to Parkinson's and the National Science Foundation funds, the sort of basic science research and translational science research and work that can help us win in our competition with China if we're going to pay less money in the decades to come for the health conditions that are burdening our increasingly aging population. And if we're going to succeed in being competitive with our biggest near competitor in the world, China, those are absolutely critical investments, I think it is profoundly ill advised for President Trump to propose huge cuts to them. Here's the good news. I am really optimistic that both Democrats and Republicans in the Senate see this the same way, and we will restore those cuts as we go through this year's appropriation. Process. Okay. The vice president talked about two topics that I want to get your thoughts on Medicare for all green new deal. Are you supportive of Medicare for all? I am supportive of stabilizing Medicare and making sure that it's there for the long term. There's a lot of I think there's this count five different versions have so called Medicare for all. So I'll tell you that what I get excited about is finding ways that we can stop the president's efforts to undermine or destroy what's left of the Affordable Care Act and instead work in a bipartisan way to stabilize healthcare in this country, reduce cost and make it more sustainable. There's a key piece in the president's budget that would repeal the protection against discrimination for those with pre existing conditions. And I'll remind you dozens of successful Republican candidates for the house and Senate in twenty six twenty eighteen ran on protecting pre existing goes three. Existing conditions protections bee green new deal. Yes. What is it? It is an aspirational resolution. I'm I have literally just come from a meeting of six democratic senators where we put on the table and talked about a dozen substantive real bills. Let me briefly talk about mine it would allow the financing of renewable energy in this country. It's a Bill that has five Republican cosponsors with five Democrats, including the chair of energy Senator Murkowski, it's had a markup in finance a markup in energy. It's been scored and it has both house and Senate Republican and democratic sponsors. It would make a lasting difference in putting billions of dollars into carbon capture sequestration grit scale storage, and every renewable form of energy. We know that's the kind of real green new deal. We need to be talking about legislation that we can all agree will fight climate change and strengthen our economy. And when you say aspirational, you mean pie in the sky. That's a synonym. Yes. Okay. Just wanna be clear on that. And because I do this for audience because we sometimes use terminology that we think everyone understands a markup means it's gone through committee. It's had a procedural review and been moved out of committee. Correct. In a previous congress. This exact Bill went through a full regular committee process and was almost included and was at the last minute defeated by former speaker, Paul Ryan would ever hear someone say with scored that means by the Congressional Budget Office. It's underlying budget funding mechanism economic ramifications has been put down on paper and thank you explanation. And the reminder that need to be less of a Senator those two steps are critical indicators of serious legislating and of having a Bill that could actually become law. Not in the sky. That's the last word of the segment. I major Garrett. This has been Chris coups the show is over thanks for joining us for more from this week's conversation. Download the takeout. Out take espec- out Tuesday morning wherever you get your podcasts. The take is produced by Arden, far Yana crescendo and Jamie Benson CBS in production by Alex and Eric SU Sonnen. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram, at takeout podcast. That's takeouts podcast and for more. Visit takeout podcasts dot com. The takeout is a production of CBS News Radio.

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CS 272: Karens (Hard-R) With Attitude feat. Nashwa Khan pt. 1

Champagne Sharks

59:05 min | 6 months ago

CS 272: Karens (Hard-R) With Attitude feat. Nashwa Khan pt. 1

"Hey what's going on champion Sharks Trevor? I was supposed to have my co Kamamba. I messed up because I got the date wrong so I to start this so I wasn't able to get them in time but I think it'll work out. Anyway I think it'll be fine so quick. Things Housekeeping has team knows extent but go to Patriotdepot DOT COM ports champagne sharks and become a subscriber five dollars a month. All that could stop you get exited voice discord chat server where you talk to the fans and you also get a preview who the guests are that are coming and the chance to pose your questions to them if you want and you get a newsletter and you also get two episodes a week instead of one and you get access to all the back episodes of the show at this point all the back premium episodes so at this point. I think it's about maybe it's over one hundred fifty at this point you got a hundred and fifty episodes just five dollars a month a huge backlog of listening to do and go to champagne sharks gmail.com if you want to write about anything and what else I think. I think that's basically it without further ado to introduce our guests natural. Am I pronouncing its Schwab? But yeah you're good you're good. Everybody says National Nationally. But it's fine. It's good okay Nashville. Yeah and if you just saw the people who you are where to find you what you think is relevant to know about you why they should spend their afternoon listening to you today Okay so I am always a student. But I've been a freelance writer for five years and I used to be kind very popular and I've died off because I stopped publishing for a bit but I'm coming back to publishing And I'm an activist and I do a lot of community based work usually Facilitating and Research I also have a podcast. That's I think. The only lefty Muslim podcast. We found out her. I guess qualified is dirt bike left. We've been told called Muslim Springer I'm based out of Toronto and I think I like to talk about the things that make people uncomfortable. So that's probably why people should keep listening. I think and I've been on twitter for a bit but I'll be back so people can find me by the time this by the time this uploads. I think I will be back. I had like I was attacked by a lot of Warren Karen soon. Yeah and I didn't want to lose my paycheck so you can find yet national K. N. A. S. H. W. A. K. A. Y. On twitter also instagram. And you can find me on my on the podcast at twitter. I usually run it. Muslim than R. U. M. S. P. R. G. We're talking about different things before The show and a lot of it overlaps and when the things that we're talking about before we started recording today We're talking with. He's sorry thing is kind of take Babe Dot Com dot net which is weird so magazine. I never heard of before or after they desperately anything that you the it was. Put them on the map. The bishop though right off of it again were you magazine before is it. Because I don't read a lot of stuff that I didn't know I actually and I'm like somebody who a lot of feminist publications reach out to me actually. I decline a lot because I don't want to put out token work so by Babe Dot net is not when I had heard of before That big kind of peace that they did that I think it had more than one million clicks within a week or something. There was some ridiculous number. That link Jazz Avella never gets And other mainstream more popular feminist media never gets but they got it for the season. Sorry piece you're crazy. I'm going to their website now and then we should have done anything since then is usually the last thing he did. Was that really sad? It's really weird so I guess that's one reason why we didn't hear anything that seems to be the literal lasting that he did was even worse even the point. That's that's that's very bizarre. Yeah so I have no idea what that's about the news this morning almost like a plant plant like what is it was even spinning off until anything with also just poor journalism which a lot of people feel uncomfortable talking about I. I saw like when that conversation happened. I don't WANNA really jump in. Because everybody was calling anybody who pushed back a little bit a rape apologist and what happened was like. I'm not saying like that's okay. But I'm also saying it was not. It was clearly not rape but also like. I'm just shutting out anybody who questions like journalistic platform and their integrity. And like. Where did they come from? Because it was so foreign to us. Babe Dot net like. Nobody knew what it was. Maybe some college students because they would go to colleges and get writers like to write for free from different colleges which is kind of scheme that a bunch of other organizations have used including a Muslim girl who doesn't pay their college campus They call them. Campus contributors her campus does the same thing so a lot of actually. I would say feminist and minority media Brown girl magazine is guilty of this as well will have like certain people from different campuses be correspondence which is like unpaid internships. Essentially your reporting from the campus here from Sabet dot net. Did that a lot. And so a lot of the people putting in the articles were unpaid students and then their staff was paid like thirty seven thousand a year or something but yeah. It's it's very weird bizarre that they just kind of after that piece they kind of fell off but they had some weird or other weird pieces. That would come that way. The that were coming up like there was one piece where they had a black writer. They would ask her to do a lot of pieces. That were very specific. And now it's been kind of Veiled that like that was very intentional. So like one of them was for her to go on tinder and like make her tinder bio but she that she would only date subs. Early Hook up with subs. Because that's reparations. Yeah so they. They had a lot of those weird pieces where they were trying to get clicks. You know soon as you say. That article echoes. Imagine what the auto look like. Like against imagine like blueberries certain type of person is willing to write articles like that you know and those. Ca- certain looking aesthetic Yeah you're not a you're not wrong. Author sure she was Dark Lake Natural hipster look actually. Okay you know what I just found her and you okay. Oh I was talking about is using sorry are raider but I know who you're talking about. Yeah the one who the submissive article I was talking about that one but then I looked in it was actually what I thought I just looked it up and I asked white guys on tended to be my slaves and these responses are all the reparations. I need my slave. Answers will be proud and and sure enough. She has natural hair and she just like A. It's weird when the kind of accessorize minorities like these type of white writers and publications tens even like minorities who look a certain way to me. I don't know I don't know what it is. It's it's creepy to me and sure enough. She looked exactly like what I thought she was. GonNa look like it's really tacky but yeah apparently it was shutdown article about it. It was located in vice located around the corner from vice or offices in Williamsburg late Reading about it the more stereotypically Brooklyn this whole production is yeah and I. I don't know if you the pictures of the offices but when the kite went and did a piece there Apparently they just kind of acted out a whole day just so the cut writer would get a certain feel for the office but it was a very weird kind of reminds me of The name of week weird show where it's three three like. Kinda woke millennial. Writers working at four version of teen vogue. Sounds horrible that I'm like being so vague about it but I'm forgetting it has. Yeah one of the characters is named Kat. But it's about like they're literally working at teen vogue and like exploring their sexuality. It's like a teen vogue when it's fake but it's you know what it is and One is like one is Queer in black and then one is our biracial and then one is Blond and white from the Midwest and then one is Brunette and like grew up poor and he's like all the troves that they think you need those worse the troops through the it's and it's feminist. Yeah it's like it's yeah. I don't know I'm not from New York. I'm from Toronto and I can understand it because we see that here too. But what's weird to me about the the Z's on sorry like quote unquote cancellation which I is that. Now it's the same people who turned a cottage industry out of feminist writing so like I'm talking like Rebecca Wahdan again. Sady doyle like all of those like really white feminist types and then also women of color who literally like just jumped on his eason. Sorry though the one of the editors of Fitch Media wrote US whole series of tweets about in sorry like rape culture in him and they were so quick to cancel him and criticize him but because they were like kind of Warren supporters. A lot of them at Warren has kind of gone to Biden and has been. I don't believe Biden has done this. They are not touching Biden and his like actual rape allegations that are like multiple in so much more substantial. Diseased is obviously not like cool but it's also like he acknowledged and he also like said he didn't understand these things. What Biden did was clearly like violation multiple times now and the hypocrisy is really weird. Because I feel like the way a lot of these people who are very fixated on being part of the white ally industrial complex. There's a lot of writers of of Color Various Races and both genders. Who seem to have their race beat very entrenched in the white ally Industrial Complex. And they really buy into that whole they kind of expect this kind of recipe. Reciprocity or same standard. That not only doesn't happen but some of them even Accepted like represent the idea where I want to show that because I'm color. I could still be fair and stick by my principals so I think I'm I'm sure a lot of those women of color writers probably very performance making sure they Were kicking as sorry like this. Probably almost a performance aspect to it. I think but these Karen type of feminists these white women. They don't really have any issue. With being hypocritical they would binding came about. They have no problem like you now doing the same thing. When when Lena Dunham Had A writer on a show That was a friend of hers. A male writer be accused of raping a black girl on the show Shannon problem saying like I usually believe women but in this case Women Times like this. This is one of the Times like you know like a lot of black women who kinda rolling done got very mad because they don't really have that same problem with throwing people own race under the bus if if necessary and and I can't understand the you expect like if it's interesting aspect the wife Primitivism. It was very much do as I say not as I do. I think I think what's been lost in kind of Me Too and Believe women what has been lost and now it's like being exposed and like the kind of rotten fruit of it is being shown of the these movements is that an and I do think that they were important and whatnot just so I don't personally I don't know if people are going to cancel me or not people know opinions but I. I think that there's always been issues like there's always been class issues in race issues in them and there's always been like this weird kind of uptake of me to believe women but now white women are willing white women and like I would say like Liberal Brown women I don't see enough of a feed anymore. Twitter to see. Who Else is doing this? I just get to hear about it. Um for people who are like. Oh my God. Can you believe this person's being so hypocritical now but they're they're willing to abandon this idea of believe all women to which those really kind of weird ideas to begin with because it's like who gets believed but also what's been kind of obscured as this idea that America has this history where a lot of like the white America's racial anxieties originate in. How black men and now black and Brown men are violating white women right and this is something we witnessed still in Europe. Where when a lot of Syrian refugees and Afghan refugees and Libyan refugees? We're going to Europe. There were major magazines taking out covers of a white woman in the European Union flag. And then all of these Brown and black hand grabbing at her Which is like the imagery that used to be evoked here and so you can't have you you can't and then and then we have this whole history where like everybody's forced to read to kill a mockingbird to learn about race which is like absurd because there's so many better books but anyways whatever Harper Lee but But but if we're all forestry to kill a mockingbird we know that there are reasons why linked to white supremacy and racism. Why people might liar have different dynamics and reporting? We see the way that people addressed season. Sorry and people are searched the other day and I search diseasing sorry rape and these sorry rapist. And everybody's still calling like not everybody but many people on the left are still calling him a rapist which is not a rapist and I think words and precision with words is so important because then you lose other things but but then with Joe Biden you see all these people who are I would say some of the same people. 'cause I just did some name searching They wake refused. Call him a rapist or like an offender of anything and I and I think that's weird. I think that's super bizarre. And I think people forget like the history of the country and like the way sexuality and like and like sexual violence has been used to found the nation in like the dynamics that we have the most interesting about dot net the article that from refinery twenty nine and he talks about the fall of the dot net it talks about white shuttered and the articles called Frat for frat feminism inside the fall of Babe Dot Net and busy what describing. It seems like it had the same type of toxic culture. That vibe did a lot of those two coup for shock. Gonzo Wannabe Louise Publications have I think it's kind of interesting that It kind of his eulogy written. That was all about how toxic itself was. Yeah they they had their own One of their editors actually assaulted a twenty year old. That worked there when she was drunk And that's not an excuse but it's weird that they really went in for Z's like they they were so fetish with that story where they literally blew up on the article like a huge like. It's literally half the size of the writer and they like framed it and put it in their office and they like in the the writer herself was fighting with so many people who were asking about like the Fox and like why she likes said certain things. Like if you remember. I don't know if you remember the article. But there's a whole big section dedicated to how she likes red wine but he ordered white and that was like a transcription like in a lot of a lot of women did take that up. They were like manner so enough that they don't even know like when they like make decisions like that like they don't even ask us about even wind choices and I'm and to me. It's more of like a that. That one part of the story was a communication issue and like maybe his thoughtlessness orders wind but like a lot of people just order for table. But like but like that's not part of like the like the reporting was bad but then then you read about their downfall and they had to Kind of senior staff editors who have assaulted women in their office because their office was like kind of an apartment as well and they've also had issues also They had like a culture where it was like very normal to hook up with higher ups but like there is a power dynamic. People felt uncomfortable. And then there were comments made and like a sexual harassment comments in the office and like a lot of mean girls stuff between the other women who like weren't sleeping with those two editors and and so it's just very bizarre that then they became these kind of people who paraded around like Aziz unserious scumbags like these met. This man is bad. Brown is bad yet. Do something very racialist about for sure but I also think to this idea. I think is one thing for us to do that. But we're at least white men but I was. I've noticed among there's talk about like Brown woman who didn't like as eases face. The Nation of of White Women. Necker understand that there are a lot of articles about that was interesting was out surprised. At how many supposedly Progressive Liberal white people kind of took shots at him for only dating White women and I found that very interesting I was like where is that coming from. You know like like is it. The idea is the idea that White Ryan don't want to be Treated okay. This is lot of white guys who just kind of have their own manic Pixie. Dream Girl navel-gazing type of shows where they're hooking up with A bunch of other new pixie types. Who are harder than them. All the time like every every hipster comedian in the actor who makes a big Zach braff. Whatever you know that's like that's like the profile. You know you hook yourself with Natalie Portman or grow out of your league playing Manic Pixie Dream Girl. I mean you can even take you back to the Woody Allen and Mia Farrow but I think there was something where there are so mad at him for it where there's like a a Slob guy like the king of Queens Guy with Lira. Meant remaining Zach braff woody Allen type intellectual or whatever I mean what is it about this brown Muslim guy where it's really bothering you. That he's with these cute white girls and I felt like there was kind of even among supposedly aggressive white people but the men and women like he's arrogant enough. He's it's one thing for white men to size initially trivialize us. But that's the way the world's been but you know Brown Muslim guy. No it was it was it was weird. Yeah go ahead. Sorry or the last thing I was GonNa say you like. That probably even happened at the magazine. 'cause I'm looking at the guys who worked at this magazine and lifted the usual typical entitled White Hipster guys who trust funds are open magazines. You know like but somehow came in that culture to have people like that Having a toxic culture but you to lead the magazine and go take down season. Sorry and then put the poster in back in the actual toxic workplace. You know I think this is a conversation that a lot of I think online leftist. Don't like having whether where they they don't want to think about how the conversation shifts so much when the man is like a different race and it's the same type of women and I think it goes back to like there is like underlying anxieties around Brown men Accessing dating having relationships with White Women. And and like. I don't want to be hypocritical on sale like I haven't dunked on his season. Saris writing for like the way he writes about Brown women. I don't necessarily care if he's dating for white women or lusting after white women's Mindy Kaelin does the same with white men and has been heavily criticised for that and I've seen white people criticize her for only having white love interests In her writing from the office and the Mindy Project and now her show that she wrote about growing up like as a teenager in a white community and the love interest is again a white guy and I think I think. What's Weirder is that? I think it's a I think it speaks to something. Where like it's okay for like all these like white even like female leads to also only have like the one type of white man that they date but then the minute mindy does it and and I'm guilty of being so close minded like five years ago when I was younger And just reading like kind of like Gel and like kind of like the garbage in pole stuff and like not thinking kind of thinking like. Why are people uncomfortable? I think it's anxieties about like having people of Color Day in be in relationships with white people when they just assume everything radical means everything has to be like by talk and everything has to be the way I think it has to be in the only love that's liberal is like love between two people of Color and like they want us to be laboratory but he's not doing that. He's a comedian. Master done is like a comedy show like Johnny. They're not trying to be like Socially conscious and so then we make them socially conscious which is like the weirdest thing we're gonna I think is interesting about trying to it. A feminist and everybody finds it'd be like such a hardcore mill feminist. Wasn't the guy from orange. Is the new black. That guy was going year. Yeah he was in the Gore people kind coming up with these backwards rationalizations to justify like how what a great on come up and I'm like is this sorry I've seen and I've seen his shows. It has some problems that has some strengths but being over the top male feminists. I've never I mean he's to do things. Like hey is bad you know and this is bad but it was pretty mild mild. Feminists was this commonsense. Don't be a douchebag type of stuff so we were trying to elevate him to Matt Matt Mkhori but we know it's interesting the problem I have with the killing stuff and the stuff that I felt would mindy Kaylin. I felt the people of Color on his show. Were always portrayed. Not that great late. You know there's a black s black roses. The total hood grow stereotype. And you know always has long nails popping gum and Becker. But it's very kind of tropy and on as using show. I didn't look how he portrayed Brown women you know It wasn't bad with the black woman but he'd actually date the black woman. It just commiserated on bad dating stuff but The city happened with Kumail Nangiani pronouncing his name The guy from the big sick like the way he made dating Ron Woman. Seem like such a chore. You know yeah that that part I think to me but it's been more than elevated love interest. Yeah Yeah because Jessica Williams is is there a name The one who was on the daily show she had some kind of movie on Netflix. Sit where she was dating white guys but her credit. She just erase black guys. Altogether just didn't really exist in the thing and I'm like okay. That's your preference. You know it would have bothered me more. She was trying to back guys and they were just terrible today in. She was almost driven to do it. But how bad the intra-racial choices were. It's something that I felt. Let's touch on a little bit with the master of none but was made a little over the top explicit with the big sick all. Yeah like I though that those used thing like just going back to. It's because he's like said he's a feminist which is like a bigger issue where like people self ideas feminists and then it's just like a downhill spiral from there. Were like people shouldn't be. I don't think celebrities should I don't think other people should self idea and then just like it's just because they're like saying like you said like the stand up just says sexual assault is bad like the Mesnier feminist like feminists like active and like committed. Knowing Ya'll you said not mcgary. Aziz is like a good dichotomy of what that means on the portrayal of people of Color. Yeah Mindy Kaeling has had an issue with writing people of color for so long Except for when she writes like herself I guess like as Kelly Kapoor and stuff but she was like really parodying version of herself but Chameleon Aziz I agree I think the bigger issue than them having white love interest because to me. I'm like why like the Brown women. A lot of brown women row kind of pieces being like. Why do they only date White Women Blah Blah? Do you really like is liberation for you dating this like Brown dude who clearly hates his culture and like people and Mike doesn't like that that's the character right that they kind of have a pair of social dating relationship with through his writing or whatever are they expect better from to me. It's worse that year. Eight like Camille Nanjiani like the way he kind of memed. Brown women was like disturbing to me As like a South Asian woman and I was in a coffee shop in Toronto actually Before Corona and I overheard this date than Pakistani man was having with this white women and I was sitting like so close because the way coffee. I'm sure it's like this in New York to the coffee shop. Tables are so close at these little her they started dropping to be. Yeah yeah like. I wasn't used dropping at all in I. Actually it's a put headphones because I wanted to punch the guy he's talking to this white women it's their first date and he's talking about how his parents want to take him back home. Just arrange your marriage. And how Pakistani woman all suck and like they're not cool in they're not progressive and they're not open minded and he's just this is the first state and this is his introduction of women from his culture to this white woman and the way woman asks him if he knows who. Benazir Bhutto is like. I started dying of like I was like. Oh my God. She knows she knows. She has more respect for Pakistani women culture than this guy who is like parodying Pakistani women and why he doesn't want to date them and why he's going to hinge to date white women and like as she should like he's about to like go to Pakistan and his parents are going to try to arrange him but he's been dating white women on hinge because we all suck and we're not feminists and then she literally was like dude. Have you heard of Benazir Bhutto? I was like yeah. I was like 'cause I was going to jump in and be like dude like I. Half Pakistani like you've got to shut up like sorry you suck. She did it and he his face like frozen. He reminds me of like the Z's Johnny Types and so I'm wondering all these like Brown feminists who are writing pieces that are like Oh Kumail in like Z's like why why don't you WanNa Dave Brown woman or right in your characters dating Brown women. Do you want to actually do? Actually think a normal grounded based Brown women would like want to date somebody like that. I. I don't think they actually want to those representations you're doing representation as one thing one weird paradox of you see a lot with black. I I feel like with a lot of representation crowd. They're actually even though the criticizing opposite gender couples in a strange way a lot of times. They're more jealous. The Brown person getting to date the white person really are not being the brown person but they have to mask it. I think they kind of take it as an arms race and the reason why I think just because those one girl I forgot her name. She was very big on twitter. At one point people you should just keep sending me who takes is there were so bad but she was brown girl twitter and she was always criticizing Z. Sorry she was always bragging about dating white guys and I was like what a weird they commun- I realized. Her mind is chemical arms race of acceptance and assimilation. And as these sarees like like Mindy killing is a win. But then he's sorry. Show is a little more critically acclaimed three seasons and has more clout and now like the Brown guys one leg up but she didn't particularly like brand guys. There's always badmouthing them. Not just say season's already but general ones like she was kind of gender reverse version of what she was paying they were lake and I started realizing There was a weird double standard. There I think people sometimes do that sometimes people they know they're supposed to be woke. And then there's not supposed to be suffocating. So they mask it under fix authorities the time and I'm not saying that this is everybody. I think some people just wanted the representation you know. Maybe some people actually did think season saw was catch into the data that might exist it too but I do think there's a type and a lot of times they right for a lot of these magazines are very and who their friend. Mindy Keeling doing it. But they don't let these sorry the Lakers different someone who hates when both people do you see what I mean. Yeah but that's like the like Lazy Lasi Fair. Feminism that we're seeing where it's it's like with warrant with every every woman lately it's just like she's a woman. Why are you holding women accountable? Why are women expected to be bearers? Culture like why are women but like it's actually you're right. It's it's a very weird standard and I guess I'm I'm always thinking like what do all of these people long for like is their end goal and if they're leftists like what's what are like what are they doing for a leftist gains. I don't really understand and I and maybe this is climbed by racial. My Mom's Moroccans. I've never had like a purity. I only want to see two people of the same ethnicity together and so I've I've always looked at things very differently even in my own life. I'm very like does this person have common goals like diseases. Person have the same like class analysis. But there's a lot of weird gymnasts that people are doing because I feel like if someone is just into the racial purity. That's one thing if someone is into The opposite whereas like I don't care less fair you know that's one thing. Somebody might even be the opposite. Extreme models like hey. I only signed my raise. If that's your thing but as long as you be consistent but this is weird thing that happens now where people want to have their not have to double standards but find a way to Present them as as woke so what you'll get is like. There are a lot of people who are criticizing season. Sorry for doing that. But they were praising indicating as evolved in step forward but then trying to make the rationalizations unconvincing as to why they were Different you know and and amendment It'll be like You Know White. Men are leader colonisation. So it's different when when this person glorifies White Man but if someone dog lover those you know that's okay because it's it's different because it's a it's a because people imitate died for two missing people will do weird rationalizations like that and let us even this talking point that evolved on twitter some Black Feminism back. Women were there were saying. Can you date weight and still be Pro Black? And they were seriously answering. If you're a black woman yes if you're a black woman fear black man. No and it's like okay. That's just weird. They gave all these reasons. Why Supposedly biracial kids with a black mother are actually pro black in great but biracial kids with black father and white mother ended up being anti-black end traders of the community people were having serious like full woke discussions trying to justify this. I mean thankfully. Most people are just laughing at you. Guys are crazy but those enough of them with their rehearsed script. That was really kinda starving. Yeah is kind of weird. In the way that I've I've heard that too actually so like I've heard always that like I'm from the Pakistani community because my dad is Pakistani like this is why I'm like I have such a gap. But it's weird some weirdly popular with South Asians as a writer and a speaker and and now I get hired by South Asians all the time because I think I actually had to learn the culture very deeply because of that gap that I had from not having South Asian mother but like but people always would were very upset about it. They were very weird about my mom and It was it was bizarre But I think also like mixed before like a lot of Pakistanis. Were mixing so that's probably why. I'm in my twenties and but I think in zone Islam. Your Dad can be Muslim. And your mom doesn't have to be But if a Muslim woman who wants to marry somebody else no but that's because the logic that's given to people is that the fathers are like the stronger person in the household whereas like I guess. Culturally other cultures are cultures believe not religions that mothers give the culture and it's so weird and contested. Like obviously like you're saying it's like messy like you you can't just be like mom equals child will be fine and like no. The culture and be proud of the culture dot equals no like. There's so many other factors in the rigid in essentially almost Ray Signs almost you know. Yeah it's super weird because like if I if I think about like my dad didn't really give me culture. We went by the logic of dodd gives you culture but that's not because of him being my dad. It's just because he like just he's not a fan of his own Some parts of his culture because of like whatever moving trauma like people don't think about whereas like my mom gave me her co parts of her culture because I also do research. Morocco and I spent time there like it's different. You're it's interesting like in this time in the era of like everything being federal and microwave popcorn type Attention spans on like everything popped a faster than disappears past. You know to a lot of people talking about as he's sorry managed will be talking about Something happened twenty years ago. It really wasn't that long ago. I thought it was interesting to bring up a because there's a brown woman coming on the show and we're talking about white feminists feminism. Because that's really the broader thing. WanNa talk about and and it's interesting to reevaluate in the light of this hypocrisy. That has has happened because there's been a lot of hypocrisy you know and you could probably get away with talking about it in a way that you couldn't back then because right now a lot of liberal feminists don't really have a leg to stand on as far as trying call these things out like for example there was a guy whose life was with two guys whose careers were ruined by the Shitty men in media list. There were saying that we can't front our accusers. That things are here. Say we're not. We're not guilty. Not who did this and this person able to put this up in our lives are ruined but the person who made the list gets to become like just a writing gigging book gig off of being the creator of the list being all about whispering networks and becomes her branches able to make her brand. And you know they're really unfair. My whole career shutdown and when the guys like suing her right and I'm not saying what he did or didn't do it. It's not my place to say but what's interesting is to see more redone again. Now at the stretch for the for the Guardian or something in who got this brand offered this stuff. I ignoring the Joe Biden claims right. Which is I mean. If if you WANNA say compare like claims they want to talk about an sorry versus Joe Biden Shitty Min in media lists some of the people there. It was just like Being creepy you know or was everything from outright rape to Being a sex past or just being being creepy one guy just had a good so creepy vibe. You know you can't turn around. Dismiss the Joe Biden. Ethically litigating it when your whole career is based on having list of you produce those novelists like blindly believed you know and it's going to be interesting like what do you think they hit to that brand wave. Feminism is going to be. Do you think they will have any accountability or being at the kind of run their own their own show? They are face of women's media. Do you think who you GonNa hold them accountable if anybody. I like grapple with this question so watch lately because I've been since I've gotten off twitter. Getting contacted more than ever through the weirdest ways like people found my private instagram till like asked me to write things and I but like who am. I is the one thing because these people have so much institutional cloud that I don't have in some other people who are critical a critical. Don't have people just write us off his like Bernie people. When I've been doing this stuff. Way Before Bernie And I've always been critical white from his own because it kind of obscures its obscures nuance And it's like you said it's like this twitter feminist writer Cobol that Rose Don again and like her friends. Sadie in Amanda Marcotte. And the the one who lives in She lives in Kenya and she called it like naira Bary. What's her name? She's like the big is she really annoys me. I'm says a lot of racist lifestyle living career she from Kenya She's white and I initially Kenyan origin. It's because her family owns like she does Yoga. Guatemala Oh Man. It's killing me now Anew she she presents as White. She tries to really play up that she's Women of Color. I guess to get extra cloud is that that one. I don't know if it's her. But there's one who's like us from Waco. She's like literally from a settler family. It's weird anyways Everyday No she she writes for the Guardian as well. She's a lawyer. She married like this. Like really white white dude who's also accidentally quote UNQUOTE ACCIDENTALLY. Said Racist. Things. She's like she's like hot to cover up his tweets for it. But but this is yeah. Yeah Yeah Yeah. Yeah and her. Dad's like her. Grandpa was a war criminal. All this stuff like all of this stuff about. She's really tone in a class racial way to always be Shooting pictures on vacations and it'd be places whereas the staff is treated bed. Yeah Costa Rica. She wanted Yoga. Retrea and tweeting Bernie socks and stuff like that. And I'm like can you like shut up? But yeah she's Lucifer Yeah exotic good way to put it. And that's like the vibe of this feminist writer. This feminist writers group that literally. They made money off of what writing made money and names off of writing about trumping like complicit in sexual assault writing about Cavanaugh being complicit in sexual in league we're going to be completely honest Wasi Ford had less substantial evidence than Tara. Reid does have right now and right now. These women are making every excuse possible to like not say anything positive for Ontarians behalf rate so to me I think. Like nobis holding them accountable. -cause anybody who tweets them just gets blocked they have these huge platforms because they've spent four years building platforms and like editor connections and getting spots at all these like major outlets through dunking on trump through criticizing Brad Kavanagh through saying me to make sense in me. Two doesn't have any holes. Everybody else has a hole in. It brings me back actually to one of the responses to the season. Sorry piece was by somebody named Nadia Agarwal. Where it's ironic 'cause she's like dunking all this stuff and talking about like Brown women and like empowerment and stuff Part of it but then she's like she talks about how like we don't know the person who reported A season sorry. We don't know her race and like it came out like that. It was a white person. It was a white woman who who does have who is very white feminist. But also Agra like oh in like sexual violence. There's there's no room for race. I'm a brown woman and I say this and so these like also these brown women who are like very pm see. I would argue in and and women of color have done this where they've put up these white women like sady doyle and stuff like that so the they're kind of almost untouchable because they do have a buffer of friends who are people of Color who should be holding them accountable but they don't site. I think the future is that. There's this this liberal feminism hole. Where like they choose they choose? Who is a rapist and they choose? Who IS BAD? And they choose good victims and bad victims and we see that with Toronto Burke and Ao see right now dicing their words around How to hold Biden accountable and we see people saying he can be accountable. And they're using their their bastardising honestly Language around transformative justice the worst part the final way to weaponize like language tended pretty opposite and use it to Different than that girl. Calling a trolling white guys on tender reparations trivializing misusing a serious social justice movement. She says it's justified something. You basically trivializing it. Yeah I forgot which person like furious at one hundred years ago or they're like the appropriation of like socialist language and like workers rights is going to be the downfall of the left which is like what I'm seeing with. This like white feminists media buying to where like they're literally putting out pieces in the biggest places like New York Times and stuff like that being like. We have a hard decision to make. Now while Alah and like it's it's listenable. Llanos are making a big show of up the Supreme Court hearings and sitting behind the Guy. Kavanag for photo ops glaring at him and stuff and then suddenly Saying I believe believe women straight facing onto believe women didn't actually mean believe all women. Nick and making excuses rank and the problem is the department. Is this like okay? People come to you and ask you to write this piece right but if you get blackballed people. I'm going to go. After you editor you know Meanwhile like if a man of color or white man did it it would look like hey a trying to make Excuses for him. And that's what we believed. You never say a believe women ended up being like a hypocrisy and whatever now you look like somebody who just wants like. You don't look like this people will say what straight face that you're a rape apologist. You know So they basically put in the place where the only people who can really get away with doing devastating. Take down this is going to have to be One of their own and doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon. Like rose McGowan on for example with someone who was kind of on par with a listener. Llanos is being a face of this movement who was willing to take a listen to task for being a hypocrite. You know in that carried a certain amount of weight that you know someone else doing a lot of these sixth Toronto Burke Right Burke. She just happened to be invited. You know she's been doing this stuff in a very low level but known with no notice and she just looked up into cloud because she just happened to have a. Hashtag that coincided with listen Milan on us and to save face 'cause These different black women were like actually someone else didn't meet her to a different metoo. It was it was related to women but it wasn't part of the same wave of accusations and and sexual harassment that listen a lot of was talking about but someone acknowledged someone told me that this was actually a pre existing. Hashtag and movement. And you know I wanNA apologize sued. Toronto Burqa also. Invite her on board. So trying to bridge is basically this old. Hashtag just by virtue of it's still being up look into this clout. She's not gonNA mess things up and go back to obscurity she. She's not gonNA call listen. Milano who basically Was Gracious enough to let her call herself. The founder of the metoo movement even though she was really a founder of a whole different unrelated me Movement but I think there's a lot of that with a lot of these writers of Color Garner gender where there's only one of us in louder time to sit at the table. Maybe two and if I make too many waves they're gonNA throw me back where I came from. And there's like fifty more like me waiting in the wings Can your place with that in one or two at time? Yeah and I've heard this to like in my work. Life often where people are like. Just do the change from within like there'll just replace you. It's like the diversity. It's like the diversity curse where like these people fought for diversity without structural changes and they just thought to be like a warm body at a table so like they're very disposable and replaceable rape but I think also like there's there's a problem with me too. That's a big problem that now we're seeing with all of this is like nobody ever operationalized goals for me to there's never been like operationalized goals and there's never been operationalised definitions and there's never been like third. There was no like real respect like reckoning with like the history of sexual violence in the nation and like why has sexual violence for different groups? It was like as if it all touches everybody the same way when like when we we know that's like one not true and then. I was part of a project at a drop in Toronto where it was actually kind of countered storytelling me too because The drop in that I was working at those women are like hundred percent. Never GonNa be part of a mutual narrative right there like sex worker substance users women who don't look a certain way and so. I think like the big thing that people always don't realize that like me too did cater to various specific types of women women who are like able to vocalise their stories women who have platforms women who are literate to a point where they can like right narrative and present it in a way that people consume well and I think we're seeing that even with Not to just keep bringing it back to this book blase Ford and Tara. Reid like Tarot read doesn't speak the way Bazi Ford does. She's not a tenure profit in. That's playing a huge role. She's not saying my limbic system was impacted years later. She's not using that language right. She's like been described as like a little girl for some people have brought up that. She's like not prettier like put together and like On slee Sleet Political Gab. Fast fast I think Emily Nausbaum. Who's also a big METOO feminist quote unquote? Person was like trying to like a mediate on why she doesn't believe her read the same way and she basically came to the conclusion If you really sit with it that she doesn't because basically Tara reads like not an academic and I think me to really was good for for basically I think. People who can articulate their stories People I basically people who can present their ideas in a certain way and people who like looked consumable in palatable to the public and terrorists still is a just like yeah basically. I think it's a big weird mess worth People in in like it's going back to respectability honestly like when they think it's interesting like I feel even if you do can create something where you put people on the top of color. You don't just get people seat at the table. But maybe a little more structural changes in a couple of people on the top of whatever organization you have and have them be of color another problem. That thing happens. I think a lot of the people who are able to climb these organizations as people of Color do it by not rock the boat by being one of the gang. You know you know the same rain accent women. Rise to the top of traditionally sexist field by over compensating on being frat Bros themselves like. I'm sure a lot of people of color who get to the top of things do it by not rocking the boat or being actually well socialized for white spaces. I think a lot of people say oh. Put their just put people at the table. Put them in charge but a lot of times people in charge defense overcompensate to show that they're not being partial to their own you know. Ucs high as Obama Obama was very hamstrung by. He didn't WANNA SEE. Nike was giving back special treatment so he ended up almost doing nothing really just for black people. It was yet to show you the president of all America not just black America but these people are listening Alana. When he's other people. Emily Nussbaum is people. They really clear they have no problem. Changing a playing spring favorites on whim. Yeah actually I was wrong. It's emily a Basilan so I want to correct that sorry button. Nausbaum has her own weird thing with like people of color and just like elect people of color because people of Color but it was basil on. Who did the weird? They gone to read where she's she's just like lost in my opinion. But but I think it's People don't ever think about like structural change or like people don't think about like okay if if if now. I have a for example people are talking about Nikki. Haley running right. That's the big thing Nikki Haley Run after trump right Nikki. Haley is like South Asian. And I think it's weird that people think like Nikki. Haley is going to bring girl power to like this bad stuff or like Brown girl power. I think it's really bizarre. A leftist Goes around The Clap emojis more female wardens. That's what I thought particularly when people are like. Oh Nikki Haley Blah Blah Blah. I'm like really like this is this is bad like this is really bad like it's not like a like actually today. I saw a tweet that somebody sent me. That was like Oh man you should come back on. Just a fight with this person in there talking about the cultural renaissance of Brown people and they were naming all the people we have like politics or like we have in media under naming They were literally naming trash like literally. They're naming trash in there in the person's just like we have all these Brown people. Now it's so good and So like it's A. It's a renaissance of Brown people who've been neglected in media things like that and I think it's I think it's bizarre. The whole league just elect somebody because of their like warm body identities. I've always thought it was weird. Like how they are like women. Vp WOMAN VP. And I'd like what's that GonNa do? Y- is very weird because like a lot of people I think. Now there's a cultural ethos and it's not even just with minorities. I think he's just in general like this idea of yourself as a brand of yourself just something to constantly image to cultivate image of to market like like you have to do it all now. You can't be the best writer that you WanNa be and then just sell yourself to a newspaper in have them higher. You can't be the best model or actress or whatever you WanNa be a people. Now we want you to be publicised. They want you to be your PR person. They want you to cultivate your own audience. You know and then bring all this stuff to them you know like they want you to show up and show up in basically bring your own audience. Being influence her be Already known like following on social media in all that stuff so I think it's Kinda cultivated people just think of everything in terms of exposure in an clout late lake and not about about quality. Anything that helps the brand even by by proxy. Like you know if this becomes visible than this helps me Be Seen. This helps me. This is a promotion for for me. You know what I mean. Optimises is everything you know whereas if it was more about talent or believe it doesn't help you much because like if Michael Jordan Is like their premiere brand ambassador something and it's because it's basketball skills. That doesn't really help me because absolutely how to play basketball and that level but if somebody is getting put on just because they're black. Well Hey I can do. I've already done that. I've really done done three quarters of the work just by being me so I feel like in a weird way. It's about themselves. They kind of feel. There's some kind of personal brand benefit from this is almost product placement yeah. I think it doesn't help that. People have developed these weird like Peres social relations to certain people in media our like whatever like Politics E. Around AFC ray AFC is a brand. I don't know if you're okay going into this territory because people hate talking. Afc because they're like Oh. She does more good than harm. But I'm like it's not about that it's about that. She's she's fully brand. She was on ru Paul's drag race and doing the most nationalistic patriotic stop. I've heard and anybody else who did what she did would be like cancels quote unquote. She like literally had a whole bit where she posted on her twitter. Where she's like. We are all patriots Blah Blah Blah. And I'm like are you. People still convinced that she doesn't give a crap about foreign policy like she literally. Who which person like Omar has never ever ever ever been like? I'm a patriot. She's never done and she's been attacked so much. So it's not an excuse that it's like to normalize them and like make them more palatable to like American public bob like Ilhan Omar Rashida tape have never been the knee with that stuff goes on Rupaul. And she liked does the whole bit and she does the light kind of she plays. She plays up how she pronounces her name sometimes. She did a video from Muslims recently. Where she literally was like playing up her own pronunciation of her name and all these Muslim words where like Muslims in America don't pronounce words like that year she she's something where I kinda saw when it was happening where I was like I feel like this is my favorite people nephew. The black lives matter and not black activist like a lot of people. Think they're savvy because they've caught onto the old person who pulled a trick on them but they're more than ready to be hoodwinked by the new face during the same trick but just slightly Refined or or adjusted. So it's like a lot of people are very congratulatory. Now that they kind of see through Obama and they'll talk about all this stuff like Oh. We were fooled was culture. Personality keyed the right package and said the right things but he didn't really follow through and it was charisma and good looks and whatever and while the pencils on the back with that as Andrea cashier. Cortez is showing danger of becoming a similar thing becoming home. Culture of Personality or someone who's kind of lightly vetted because People find her like likable this para social thing and I think that's the thing that's really dangerous. I feel that way with These two new shootings black men. That happened everyone from before. Who's trying to back on it? People like our de Ray and people at the root in other places trying to hop back on it and then and people are lay on. Remember you guys sold out. You never got anything done you. Guys just Try to Oscars write memoirs and appear in Vanity Fair. You guys just use it to build your own brands and people are feeling really good like I was talking with somebody else talking with A hundred AMIS and he was like yeah. I think people are too savvy. Now they're not gonNA fall for it again. I'm not. I'm not that optimistic. I think they're not gonNA fall from an old actors but I bet you brand new face comes is just a little more radical than Cindy Ray. Vac Lives matter and looks a little more punk rock or whatever or they'll more after centric wherever they're going to fall all over again and then a year from now gonna see that person attending the Oscars I i. I I love Andre so this is nice to hear his name. This conversation but with Obama. I don't know if you remember. But one of his big promises was to shut down Guantanamo Bay and he had all that language around it so like leftists who were kind of bitter about the Iraq war and like understood so like it's not fully type of online. Let's have now but like left. Activists DID SAVE OBAMA. Kind of like harm reduction. Or whatever and he'll shut down Guantanamo Guantanamo still open. We'd like romanticized now or we're in this weird post world where like Michelle Obama Hugs Bush. He hangs out with Ellen DeGeneres. It's weird it's super weird and grotesque and and they're all brands right an AO see. I think you're right. She's GonNa be lightly vetted because she has all this activist language anytime I've ever tweeted about. Afc and I'm so light about it. I'm like AFC is kind of a centrist. Stop saying she's radical because she says prison. Abolition and people just start getting so angry or you get attacked for that yeah. I walked very recently very recently right. Everybody kind of got on you. Yeah all these leftists who are like my friends and comrades like they just jumped on me they were like I got. I got like I've never really threatened with rape or assault. It was the first time. Somebody's like cokie. Tounsi rapes you. Was like a big follower of mine for years. And he was like he was like I hope the DNC rapes for being bad to like the most radical person. We've had in the in the in Congress for this long and I was like are you okay. And then Michael Brooks Michael Brooks like took it up with me. And then people started attacking on my behalf or whatever. I don't know so weird. It was weird when you said that threat that he said I found myself laughing not because it was funny to threaten sexual violence but because it was just such a weird threat like it'll be someone just saying out of the blue the DNC Lynch's you but but they're supposed to be a on the left late. Why not just say hey? I hope the hoping the DNC disappoints you like. Why go that far? Because it's kind where you're supposed to be on the left supposed to be better than this stuff but you go to the most vile plays instantly to the point of things even nonsensical like the idea of institution. Oh and it was like it was like a very Very well described threat to it was like literally. I hope the DNC like rods your legs and rapes you for like not liking AFC. It was so vile and the person kept following me. They would like reply to my tweets and tell me how smart and great I was and I was like cigarette. Just mad at me for this thing and it happened with so many people I got messages. I have opened yams of people being like You just are jealous. 'cause you're Brown woman who's like not in Congress I'm like that's like not my aspirational goal. Like that's not something. I desire for For Soviet Karen. I'm an American citizen but I am in Canada. Yeah so I am an American citizens. I think people think I want that stuff I also. Yeah I I am in Canada and I'm quite happy to be honest league. Has its own problems. But it's better in Florida. I think I think when people do that. I think when people do that wasn't something about themselves because I feel like if you're in the jumped this person's jealous because they want clout or exposure. Then I think if anything. That's kind of revealing you you're projecting your own thing because it's weird like. I don't normally jump to that with people. I try to get people who good faith that they have a real Disagreement with something so I was used to find it very interesting. That people will ask the. I always jumped to. There will always jump to You're just jealous or or you wish you had that exposure when at the time when d'auray was still untouchable as far as being criticized now kind of become kind of can open joke. Only really really hardcore groupie that thinks still kind of rock with him or really tone deaf like boomer type centrist still believe have a connection to any radical tradition. But at the time. It was uncool to this d'auray no matter what I brought up about him no matter whether there was about his Stuff with teach for America and all these weird neoliberal think-tank institutions and things he was connected within and how it came out of nowhere. Clearly like astroturf type of plant. Everyone's like Oh you know you just you just jealous and there. There was a guy who was on the ground in Ferguson was from Ferguson. Who WAS COMPLAINING? About how the direct kind of protest crasher who hijacked the protests and may may face an people just complaining to him Just wish that you were getting on. Tv like him disguised even trying to get on TV. He's he's still in Ferguson. He's not he doesn't have a head shot he's not trying to break into that before. I think it's bizarre. I guess because I'm older than I am but not that much older than I am and I guess we're both like Brown woman who are left so people were just like thinking that that's what I aspire to but I. I have no aspirations to be an electoral politics. As of right now in my life browns will ask me what is Brown. What is Brown mean? I mean you're from Pakistan Morocco in. She's She Puerto Rico. Like yeah I mean th the Chart. You guys are close somehow. Make sure that yeah. I'm I'm Muslim. I care a lot about foreign policy. She clearly doesn't it. I would never identifies Patriot on a TV. Show like Rupaul drag race. I would never tell people there. Patriot I don't I don't think nation states are good like I wouldn't. I don't think like we're we're very different. So it was just bizarre. That people were like you wish you had that platform. I'm like no actually don't actually have no desire. I like being in my community and like working in my community and doing what I do with people who are like at drop ins and doing Harvard. Like that's what I like but I actually what you're making me. Think of with your as you're making me think about more recently Shaun King and like how people are so unable to kind of deal with him because he does do. I don't know if I'm right or wrong here because I did tweet on the podcast account and so many people had different opinions but People are like well even of Sean kings bad like sometimes steals money and does this kind of Protest crashing or whatever. He does get things done at times but then he has this weird thinking about Brown nece. He has this thing about race. That's confusing. So does Rachel Dole is L. Were like they have. They have relations to community more so than like Warren which is weird but then Warren gotta pass. But they don't get a pass and and I'm not saying this is good or bad. I'm just saying it's such a weird conversation. And they have celebrity actors. You know. There's a good part. Yeah the cost. Shaun King Things Talcum X. And all these other derogatory nicknames but Elizabeth Warren Street up. And it's no big deal. It's kind of funny position at Harvard Lying. That was meant to go to a black woman. Because Derrick Bell step down to give that position to a black woman. Zan this huge but a lot of these black women that is back. Feminism who check firmness were rallying for her heart. All right you. Also that is the end part. One goto again E. DOT com slash champagne or click building in the show notes. Get part two speakers.

writer White Women Dave Brown rape Joe Biden twitter Toronto Warren Karen white ally Industrial Complex Nikki Haley Guardian Nashville New York America Aziz unserious teen vogue White Ryan White Emily Nausbaum Burke Right Burke
CS 272: Karens (Hard-R) With Attitude feat. Nashwa Khan pt. 1

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59:05 min | 6 months ago

CS 272: Karens (Hard-R) With Attitude feat. Nashwa Khan pt. 1

"Hey what's going on champion Sharks Trevor? I was supposed to have my co Kamamba. I messed up because I got the date wrong so I to start this so I wasn't able to get them in time but I think it'll work out. Anyway I think it'll be fine so quick. Things Housekeeping has team knows extent but go to Patriotdepot DOT COM ports champagne sharks and become a subscriber five dollars a month. All that could stop you get exited voice discord chat server where you talk to the fans and you also get a preview who the guests are that are coming and the chance to pose your questions to them if you want and you get a newsletter and you also get two episodes a week instead of one and you get access to all the back episodes of the show at this point all the back premium episodes so at this point. I think it's about maybe it's over one hundred fifty at this point you got a hundred and fifty episodes just five dollars a month a huge backlog of listening to do and go to champagne sharks gmail.com if you want to write about anything and what else I think. I think that's basically it without further ado to introduce our guests natural. I am I pronouncing. Its Schwab you're good. You're good. Everybody says National Nationally. But it's fine. It's good okay Nashville. Yeah and if you just saw the people who you are where to find you what you think is relevant to know about you why they should spend their afternoon listening to you today. Okay so I am always a student. But I've been a freelance writer for five years. I used to be kind very popular and I've died off because I stopped publishing for a bit but I'm coming back to publishing And I'm an activist and I do a lot of community based work usually Facilitating and Research I also have a podcast. That's I think. The only lefty Muslim podcast. We found out her. I guess qualified is dirt bike left. We've been told called Muslim Springer I'm based out of Toronto and I think I like to talk about the things that make people uncomfortable. So that's probably why people should keep listening. I think and I've been on twitter for a bit but I'll be back so people can find me by the time this by the time this uploads. I think I will be back. I had like I was attacked by a lot of Warren Karen soon. Yeah and I didn't want to lose my paycheck so you can find yet national K. N. A. S. H. W. A. K. A. Y. On twitter also instagram. And you can find me on my on the podcast at twitter. I usually run it. Muslim than R. U. M. S. P. R. G. We're talking about different things before The show and a lot of it overlaps and when the things that we're talking about before we started recording today We're talking with. He's sorry thing is kind of take Babe Dot Com dot net which is weird so magazine. I never heard of before or after they desperately anything that you the it was. Put them on the map. The bishop though right off of it again. Were you there magazine before is it? Because I don't read a lot of stuff that I didn't know I actually and I'm like somebody who a lot of feminist publications reach out to me. Actually I decline a lot because I don't want to put out token work so by Babe Dot net is not when I had heard of before. that big kind of peace. That they did that I think it had more than one million clicks within a week or something. There was some ridiculous number. That link Jazz Avella never gets And other mainstream more popular feminist media never gets but they got it for the season. Sorry piece you're crazy. I'm going to their website now and then we should have done anything since then is usually the last thing he did. Was that really sad? It's really weird so I guess that's one reason why we didn't hear anything that seems to be the literal lasting that he did was even worse even the point. That's that's that's very bizarre. Yeah so I have no idea what that's about the news this morning almost like a plant plant like what what is it was even spinning off until anything with also just poor journalism which a lot of people feel uncomfortable talking about i. I saw like when that conversation happened. I don't WANNA really jump in. Because everybody was calling anybody who pushed back a little bit a rape apologist and what happened was like. I'm not saying like that's okay. But I'm also saying it was not. It was clearly not rape but also like. I'm just shutting out anybody who questions like journalistic platform and their integrity. And like. Where did they come from? Because it was so foreign to us. Babe Dot net like. Nobody knew what it was. Maybe some college students because they would go to colleges and get writers like to write for free from different colleges which is kind of scheme that a bunch of other organizations have used including a Muslim girl who doesn't pay their college campus They call them. Campus contributors her campus does the same thing so a lot of actually. I would say feminist and minority media Brown girl magazine is guilty of this as well will have like certain people from different campuses be correspondence which is like unpaid internships. Essentially your reporting from the campus here from Sabet dot net. Did that a lot. And so a lot of the people putting in the articles were unpaid students and then their staff was paid like thirty seven thousand a year or something but yeah. It's it's very weird and bizarre that they just kind of after that piece they kind of fell off but they had some weird or other weird pieces that would come that way. The that were coming up like there was one piece where they had a black writer. They would ask her to do a lot of pieces. That were very specific. And now it's been kind of Veiled that like that was very intentional so like one of them was for her to go on tinder and like make her tinder bio but she that she would only date subs. Early Hook up with subs. Because THAT'S REPARATIONS. So they they had a lot of those weird pieces where they were trying to get clicks. You know soon as you say that article. What the auto look like like against imagine like blueberries certain type of person is willing to write articles like that you know and those Ca- certain looking aesthetic Yeah you're not a you're not wrong. Author sure she was Dark Lake Natural hipster look actually. Okay you know what I just found her and you okay. Oh I was talking about is using sorry raider but I know who you're talking about. Yeah the one who the submissive article I was talking about that one but then I looked in it was actually what I thought I just looked it up and I asked white guys on tended to be my slaves and these responses are all the reparations I need my enslave. Answers will be proud and and sure enough. She has natural hair and she just like A. It's weird when the kind of accessorize like minorities like economics like these type of white writers and publications tens even like minorities who look a certain way to me. I don't know I don't know what it is. It's it's creepy to me and sure enough. She looked exactly like what I thought she was. GonNa look like it's really tacky but yeah apparently it was. Shut down article about it. It was located in vice located around the corner from vice or offices in Williamsburg. It's more on reading about it. The more stereotypically Brooklyn this whole production is yeah and I. I don't know if you the pictures of the offices but when the kite went and did a piece there Apparently they just kind of acted out a whole day just so the cut writer would get a certain feel for the office but it was a very weird kind of reminds me of The name of week weird show where it's three three like. Kinda woke millennial. Writers working at four version of teen vogue. Sounds horrible that I'm like being so vague about it but I'm forgetting it has. Yeah one of the characters is named Kat. But it's about like they're literally working at teen vogue and like exploring their sexuality. It's like a teen vogue when it's fake but it's you know what it is and One is like one is Queer in black and then one is our biracial and then one is Blond and white from the Midwest and then one is Brunette and like grew up poor and he's like all the troves that they think you need those worse the troops through the it's and it's feminist. Yeah it's like it's yeah. I don't know I'm not from New York. I'm from Toronto and I can understand it because we see that here too. But what's weird to me about the the Z's on sorry like quote unquote cancellation which I is that. Now it's the same people who turned a cottage industry out of feminist writing so like I'm talking like Rebecca Wahdan again. Sady doyle like all of those like really white feminist types and then also women of color who literally like just jumped on his eason. Sorry though the one of the editors of Fitch Media wrote US whole series of tweets about disease in sorry like rape culture in him and they were so quick to cancel him and criticize him but because they were like kind of Warren Supporters. A lot of them at Warren has kind of gone to Biden and has been. I don't believe Biden has done this. They are not touching Biden and his like actual rape allegations that are like multiple in so much more substantial would as east is obviously not like cool. But it's also like he acknowledged and he also like said he didn't understand these things. What Biden did was clearly like violation multiple times now and the hypocrisy is really weird. Because I feel like the way a lot of these people who are very fixated on being part of the white ally industrial complex. There's a lot of writers of of Color Various Races and both genders. Who seem to have their race beat very entrenched in the white ally Industrial Complex. And they really buy into that whole they kind of expect this kind of recipe. Reciprocity or same standard. That not only doesn't happen but some of them even Accepted like represent the idea where I want to show that because I'm color. I could still be fair and stick by my principals so I think I'm I'm sure a lot of those women of color writers probably very performance making sure they Were kicking as sorry like this. Probably almost a performance aspect to it. I think but these Karen type of feminists these white women. They don't really have any issue. With being hypocritical they would binding came about. They have no problem like you now doing the same thing. When when Lena Dunham Had A writer on a show That was a friend of hers. A male writer be accused of raping a black girl on the show Shannon problem saying like I usually believe women but in this case Women Times like this. This is one of the Times like you know like a lot of black women who kinda rolling done got very mad because they don't really have that same problem with throwing people own race under the bus if if necessary and and I can't understand the you expect like if it's interesting aspect. The wave feminism. It was very much do as I say not as I do. I think I think what's been lost in kind of Me Too and Believe women what has been lost and now it's like being exposed and like the kind of rotten fruit of it is being shown of the these movements is that an and I do think that they were important and whatnot just so I don't personally I don't know if people are going to cancel me or not people know why opinions but I. I think that there's always been issues like there's always been class issues in race issues in them and there's always been like this weird kind of uptake of me to believe women but now white women are willing white women and like I would say like Liberal Brown women I don't see enough of a feed anymore. Twitter to see. Who Else is doing this? I just get to hear about it. Um for people who are like. Oh my God. Can you believe this person's being so hypocritical now but they're they're willing to abandon this idea of believe all women to which those really kind of weird ideas to begin with because it's like who gets believed but also what's been kind of obscured as this idea that America has this history where a lot of like the white America's racial anxieties originate in. How black men and now black and Brown men are violating white women right and this is something we witnessed still in Europe. Where when a lot of Syrian refugees and Afghan refugees and Libyan refugees? We're going to Europe. There were major magazines taking out covers of a white woman in the European Union flag. And then all of these Brown and black hand grabbing at her Which is like the imagery that used to be evoked here and so you can't have you you can't and then and then we have this whole history where like everybody's forced to read to kill a mockingbird to learn about race which is like absurd because there's so many better books but anyways whatever Harper Lee but But but if we're all forestry to kill a mockingbird we know that there are reasons why linked to white supremacy and racism. Why people might liar have different dynamics and reporting? We see the way that people addressed season. Sorry and people are searched the other day and I search diseasing. Sorry rape and Aziz sorry rapist and everybody's still calling like not everybody but many people on the left are still calling him a rapist which is not a rapist and I think words and precision with words is so important because then you lose other things but but then with Joe Biden you see all these people who are I would say some of the same people. 'cause I just did some name searching They wake refused. Call him a rapist or like an offender of anything and I and I think that's weird. I think that's super bizarre. And I think people forget like the history of the country and like the way sexuality and like and like sexual violence has been used to like found the nation in like the dynamics that we have the most interesting about dot net the article that from refinery twenty nine and he talks about the fall of Babe Dot net it talks about white shuttered and the articles called Frat for frat feminism inside the fall of Babe Dot Net and busy what describing. It seems like it had the same type of toxic culture. That vibe did a lot of those two coup for shock. Gonzo Wannabe Louise Publications have I think it's kind of interesting that It kind of his eulogy written. That was all about how toxic itself was. Yeah they they had their own One of their editors actually assaulted a twenty year old. That worked there when she was drunk And that's not an excuse but it's weird that they really went in for Z's like they they were so fetish story where they literally blew up on the article like a huge like it's literally half the size of the writer and they like framed it and put it in their office and they like in the the writer herself was fighting with so many people who were asking about like the Fox and like why she likes said certain things. Like if you remember. I don't know if you remember the article. But there's a whole big section dedicated to how she likes red wine but he ordered white and that was like a transcription like in a lot of a lot of women did take that up. They were like manner so enough that they don't even know like when they like make decisions like that like they don't even ask us about even wind choices and I'm and to me. It's more of like a that. That one part of the story was a communication issue and like maybe his thoughtlessness orders wind but like a lot of people just order for table. But like but like that's not part of like the like the reporting was bad but then then you read about their downfall and they had to Kind of senior staff editors who have assaulted women in their office because their office was like kind of an apartment as well and they've also had issues also They had like a culture where it was like very normal to hook up with higher ups but like there is a power dynamic. People felt uncomfortable. And then there were comments made and like a sexual harassment comments in the office and like a lot of mean girls stuff between the other women who like weren't sleeping with those two editors and and so it's just very bizarre that then they became these kind of people who paraded around like Aziz unserious scumbags like these met. This man is bad. Brown is bad yet. Do something very racialist about for sure but I also think to this idea. I think is one thing for us to do that. But we're at least white men but I was. I've noticed among there's talk about like Brown woman who didn't like as eases face. The Nation of of White Women. Necker understand that there are a lot of articles about that was interesting was out surprised. At how many supposedly Progressive Liberal white people kind of took shots at him for only dating White women and I found that very interesting I was like where is that coming from. You know like like is it. The idea is the idea that White Ryan don't want to be Treated there's a lot of white guys who just kind of have their own manic Pixie. Dream Girl navel-gazing type of shows where they're hooking up with a bunch of other new pixie types who are harder than them all the time every every hipster comedian in the actor who makes a big Zach braff. Whatever you know that's like that's like the profile. You know you hook yourself with Natalie Portman or grow out of your league playing Manic Pixie Dream Girl. I mean you can even take you back to the Woody Allen and Mia Farrow but I think there was something where there are so mad at him for it where there's like a a Slob guy like the king of Queens Guy with Lira. Meant remaining Zach braff woody Allen type intellectual or whatever I mean what is it about this brown Muslim guy where it's really bothering you. That he's with these cute white girls and I felt like there was kind of even among supposedly aggressive white people but the men and women like he's arrogant enough. He's it's one thing for white men to size initially trivialize us. But that's the way the world's been but you know Brown Muslim guy. No it was it was it was weird. Yeah go ahead. Sorry or the last thing I was GonNa say you feel like probably even happened at the magazine. 'cause I'm looking at the guys who worked at this magazine and lifted the usual typical entitled White Hipster guys who trust funds are open magazines. You know like but somehow came in that culture to have people like that Having a toxic culture but you to lead the magazine and go take down. Sorry and then put the poster in back in the actual toxic workplace. You know I think this is a conversation that like a lot of I think online leftist. Don't like having whether where they they don't want to think about how the conversation shifts so much when the man is like a different race and it's the same type of women and I think it goes back to like there is like underlying anxieties around Brown men Accessing dating having relationships with white women and and like I am. Don't want to be hypocritical on sale. Like I haven't dunked on his season Saris writing for like the way he writes about Brown women. I don't necessarily care if he's dating for white women or like lusting. After White Women's Mindy indicating does the same with white men and has been heavily criticised for that and I've seen white people criticize her for only having white love interests In her writing from the office and the Mindy Project and now her show that she wrote about growing up like as a teenager in a white community and the love interest is again a white guy and I think I think. What's Weirder is that? I think it's a I think it speaks to something. Where like it's okay for like all these like white even like female leads to also only have like the one type of white man that they date but then the minute mindy does it and and I'm guilty of being so close minded like five years ago when I was younger And just reading like kind of like Gel and like kind of like the garbage in pole stuff and like not thinking kind of thinking like. Why are people uncomfortable? I think it's anxieties about like having people of Color Day in be in relationships with white people when they just assume everything radical means everything has to be like by talk and everything has to be the way I think it has to be in the only love that's liberal is like love between two people of Color and like they want us to be laboratory but he's not doing that. He's a comedian. Master done is like a comedy show like Johnny. They're not trying to be like Socially conscious and so then we make them socially conscious which is like the weirdest thing we're can I think is interesting about trying to sorry a feminist and everybody finds it'd be like such a hardcore mill feminist. Wasn't the guy from orange. Is the new black. That guy was going year. Yeah he was in the Gore people kind coming up with these backwards rationalizations to justify like how what a great on come up and I'm like is this sorry I've seen and I've seen his shows. It has some problems that has some strengths but being over the top male feminists. I've never I mean he's to do things like hey. Sex harassment is bad. You know and this is bad but it was pretty mild. Mild feminists commonsense. Don't be a douchebag type of stuff so we were trying to elevate him to Matt Matt Mkhori but we know it's interesting the problem I have with the killing stuff and the sorry stuff that I would mindy Kaylin. I felt the people of Color on his show. Were always portrayed not that great late you know. There's a black s black roses. The total hood grow stereotype. And you know as always has long nails popping gum and Becker but it's very kind of tropy and on as using show. I didn't look how he portrayed Brown women you know It wasn't bad with the black woman but he'd actually date the black woman. It just commiserated on bad dating stuff but The city happened with Kumail Nangiani pronouncing his name The guy from the big sick like the way he made dating Ron Woman seemed like such a chore. You know yeah that that part I think to me but it's been more than elevated love interest. Yeah Yeah because Jessica Williams is is there a name The one who was on the daily show she had some kind of movie on Netflix Exit. Where she was dating white guys but her credit she just erase black guys. Altogether just didn't really exist in the thing and I'm like okay. That's your preference. You know it would have bothered me more. She was trying to back guys and they were just terrible today in. She was almost driven to do it. But how bad the intra-racial choices were. It's something that I felt. Let's touch on a little bit with the master of none but was made a little over the top explicit with the big sick all. Yeah like I though that those used thing like just going back to. It's because he's like said he's a feminist which is like a bigger issue where like people self ideas feminists. Then it's just like a downhill spiral from there. Were like people shouldn't be. I don't think celebrities should I don't think other people should self idea and then just like it's just because they're like saying like you said like the stand up just says sexual assault is bad like the Mesnier feminist like feminists active. And like committed. Knowing Ya'll you said not mcgary disease is like a good dichotomy of what that means on the portrayal of people of Color. Yeah Mindy Kaeling has had an issue with writing people of color for so long Except for when she writes like herself I guess like as Kelly Kapoor and stuff but she was like really parodying version of herself but chameleon as I agree I think the bigger issue than them having white love interest because to me. I'm like why like the Brown women. A lot of brown women ro kind of pieces being like. Why do they only date White Women Blah Blah? Do you really like is liberation for you dating this like Brown dude who clearly hates his culture and like people and Mike doesn't like that that's the character right that they wanna like kind of have a pair of social dating relationship with through his writing or whatever are they expect better from to me. It's worse that year. Eight Kumail Nangiani. Like the way he kind of memed. Brown women was like disturbing to me As like a South Asian woman and I was in a coffee shop in Toronto actually Before Corona and I overheard this date than Pakistani man was having with this women and I was sitting like so close because the way coffee. I'm sure it's like this in New York to the coffee shop. Tables are so close at these little her they started dropping to be. Yeah yeah like. I wasn't used dropping at all in I. Actually it's a put headphones because I wanted to like park the guy he's talking to this white women it's their first date and he's talking about how his parents want to take him back home. Just arrange your marriage. And how Pakistani woman all suck and like they're not cool in they're not progressive and they're not open minded and he's just this is the first state and this is his introduction of women from his culture to this white woman and the way woman asks him if he knows who. Benazir Bhutto is like. I started dying of like I was like. Oh my God. She knows she knows. She has more respect for Pakistani women culture than this guy who is like parodying Pakistani women and why he doesn't want to date them and why he's going to hinge to date white women and like as she should like and he's about to like go to Pakistan and his parents are going to try to arrange him but he's been dating white women on hinge because we all suck and we're not feminists and then she literally was like dude. Have you heard of Benazir Bhutto? I was like yeah. I was like 'cause I was going to jump in and be like dude like I. Half Pakistani like you've got to shut up like sorry you suck. She did it and he his face like frozen. He reminds me of like the Z's Johnny Types and so I'm wondering all these like Brown feminists who are writing pieces that are like Oh Kumail in like Z's like why why don't you WanNa Dave Brown woman or right in your characters dating Brown women. Do you want to actually do? Actually think a normal grounded based Brown women would like want to date somebody like that. I. I don't think they actually want to those representations you're doing representation as one thing one weird paradox of you see a lot with black writing. I I feel like with a lot of representation crowd. They're actually even though the criticizing opposite gender couples in a strange way a lot of times. They're more jealous. The Brown person getting to date the white person really are not being the brown person but they have to mask it. I think they kind of take it as an arms race and the reason why I think just because those one girl I forgot her name. She was very big on twitter. At one point people you should just keep sending me who takes is there were so bad but she was brown girl twitter and she was always criticizing Z. Sorry she was always bragging about dating white guys and I was like what a weird they commun- I realized. Her mind is chemical arms race of acceptance and assimilation. And as these sarees like like mindy killing is a win. Then he's sorry. Show is a little more critically acclaimed three seasons and has more clout and now like the Brown guys one leg up but she didn't particularly like brand guys. There's always badmouthing them. Not just season's already but general ones like she was kind of gender reverse version of what she was paying they were lake and I started realizing There was a weird double standard there. I think people sometimes do that. Sometimes people they know they're supposed to be woke and then there's not supposed to be fading so they mask it under fix authorities the time and I'm not saying that this is everybody. I think some people just wanted the representation you know. Maybe some people actually did think season saw was catch into a data data that might exist it too but I do think there's a type and a lot of times they right for a lot of these magazines are very and who their friend. Mindy Keeling doing it. But they don't let these. Sorry the Lakers. Different someone who hates when both people do you see what I mean. Yeah but that's like the like Lazy Lasi Fair. Feminism that we're seeing where it's it's like with warrant with every every woman lately it's just like she's a woman. Why are you holding women accountable? Why are women expected to be bearers? Culture like why are women but like it's actually you're right. It's it's a very weird standard and I guess I'm I'm always thinking like what do all of these people long for like is their end goal and if they're leftists like what's what are like what are they doing for a leftist gains. I don't really understand and I and maybe this is climbed by racial. My Mom's Moroccans. I've never had like a purity. I only want to see two people of the same ethnicity together and so I've I've always looked at things very differently even in my own life. I'm very like does this person have common goals like diseases. Person have the same like class analysis. But there's a lot of weird gymnasts that people are doing because I feel like if someone is just into the racial purity. That's one thing if someone is into The opposite you know whereas like I don't care less fair you know that's one thing somebody might even be the opposite. Extreme models like hey. I only signed my raise. If that's your thing but as long as you be consistent but this is weird thing that happens now where people want to have their nonni have to double standards but find a way to Present them as as woke so what you'll get is like. There are a lot of people who are criticizing season. Sorry for doing that. But they were praising indicating as evolved in step forward but then trying to make the rationalizations They're all unconvincing as to why they were Different you know and an amendment to it'll be like You Know White. Men are leader colonisation. So it's different when when this person glorifies White Man but if someone dog lover those you know that's okay because it's it's different because it's a it's a because people imitate died for supposedly we're seeing people will do weird rationalizations like that and let us even this talking point that evolved on twitter some Black Feminism back. Women were there were saying. Can you date weight and still be Pro Black? And they were seriously answering. If you're a black woman yes if you're a black woman fear black man. No and it's like okay. That's just weird. They gave all these reasons. Why Supposedly biracial kids with a black mother are actually pro black and great but biracial kids with black father and white mother ended up being anti-black end traders of the community people were having serious like Tumbler. Lake full woke discussions trying to justify this. I mean thankfully. Most people are just laughing at you. Guys are crazy. But those enough of them with their rehearsed script that was really kinda starving. Yeah is kind of weird. In the way that I've I've heard that too actually so like I've heard always that like I'm from the Pakistani community because my dad is Pakistani like this is why I'm like I have such a gap. But it's weird some weirdly popular with South Asians as a writer and a speaker and and now I get hired by South Asians all the time because I think I actually had to learn the culture very deeply because of that gap that I had from not having South Asian mother but like but people always would were very upset about it. They were very weird about my mom and It was it was bizarre But I think also like mixed before like a lot of Pakistanis. Were mixing so that's probably why. I'm in my twenties and but I think in zone Islam. Your Dad can be Muslim. And your mom doesn't have to be But if a Muslim woman who wants to marry somebody else no but that's because the logic that's given to people is that the fathers are like the stronger person in the household whereas like I guess. Culturally other cultures are cultures believe not religions that mothers give the culture and it's so weird and contested. Like obviously like you're saying it's like messy like you you can't just be like mom equals child will be fine and like no. The culture and be proud of the culture dot equals no like. There's so many other factors in the rigid in essentially almost Ray Signs almost you know. Yeah it's super weird because like if I if I think about like my dad didn't really give me culture. We went by the logic of dodd gives you culture but that's not because of him being my dad. It's just because he like just he's not a fan of his own Some parts of his culture because of like whatever moving trauma you know all these other things that people don't think about whereas like my mom gave me her co parts of her culture because I also do research. Morocco and I spent time there. Like it's different your. It's interesting like in this time. In the era of like everything being federal and microwave popcorn type Attention spans on like everything popped a faster than disappears past. You know to a lot of people talking about as he's sorry managed will be talking about Something happened twenty years ago. It really wasn't that long ago I thought it was was interesting to bring up a because there's a brown woman coming on the show and we're talking about white feminists feminism. Because that's really the broader thing. WanNa talk about and and it's interesting to reevaluate in the light of this hypocrisy. That has has happened. Because there's been a lot of hypocrisy and you could probably get away with talking about it in a way that you couldn't back then because right now a lot of liberal feminists don't really have a leg to stand on as far as trying call these things out like for example there was a guy whose life was with two guys whose careers were ruined by the Shitty men in media list. There were saying that we can't front our accusers. That things are here. Say we're not. We're not guilty. Not who did this and person able to put this up in. Our lives are ruined but the person who made the list gets to become like just a writing gigging book gig off of being the creator of the list being all about whispering networks and becomes her branches able to make her brand. And you know they're really unfair. My whole career shutdown and when the guys like suing her right and I'm not saying what he did or didn't do it. It's not my place to say but what's interesting is to see more redone again. Now at the stretch for the for the Guardian or something in who got this brand offered this stuff. I ignoring the Joe Biden claims right. Which is I mean. If if you WANNA say compare like claims they want to talk about an sorry versus Joe Biden Shitty Min in media lists some of the people there. It was just like Being creepy you know or was everything from outright rape to Being a sex past or just being being creepy One guy just had a good so creepy vibe. You know you can't turn around. Dismiss the Joe Biden. Ethically litigating it when your whole career is based on having list you produce those novelists like blindly believed you know and it's going to be interesting like what do you think they hit to that brand wave. Feminism is going to be. Do you think they will have any accountability or being at the kind of run their own their own show? They are face of women's media. Do you think who you GonNa hold them accountable if anybody. I like grapple with this question so watch lately because I've been since I've gotten off twitter. Getting contacted more than ever through the weirdest ways like people found my private instagram till like asked me to write things and I but like who am. I is the one thing because these people have so much institutional cloud that I don't have in some other people who are critical a critical. Don't have people just write us off his like Bernie people. When I've been doing this stuff. Way Before Bernie And I've always been critical white from his own because it kind of obscures its obscures nuance And it's like you said it's like this twitter feminist writer Cobol that Rose Don again and like her friends. Sadie in Amanda Marcotte. And the the one who lives in She lives in Kenya and she called it like Rob Ary. What's her name? She's like the big is she really annoys me. I'm says a lot of racist lifestyle living career she from Kenya She's white and I initially Kenyan origin. It's because her family owns like she does Yoga. Guatemala Oh Man. It's killing me now. Minimum anew. She's she presents as white. She tries to really play up that she's Women of Color. I guess to get extra cloud is that that one. I don't know if it's her. But there's one who's like us from Waco. She's like literally from a settler family. It's weird anyways. everyday She she writes for The Guardian as well. She's a lawyer. She married like this. Like really white white dude who's also accidentally quote unquote accidentally said racist things. She's like she's like hot to cover up his tweets for it. But but this is yeah. Yeah Yeah Yeah. Yeah and her. Dad's like her. Grandpa was a war criminal. All this stuff like all of this stuff about. She's really tone in a class racial way to always be Shooting pictures on vacations and it'd be places whereas the staff is treated bed. Yeah Costa Rica. She wanted yoga retreat. And then she was tweeting. Bernie socks and stuff like that and I'm like can you like shut up but yeah she's river Lucifer. You'll eat. Pray Love Yeah exotic good way to put it and that's like the vibe of this feminist writer. This feminist writers group at literally. They made money off of what writing made money and names. Off of writing about trump being like complicit in sexual assault writing about Cavanaugh being complicit in sexual suddenly we're going to be completely honest Wasi Ford had less substantial evidence than Tara. Reid does have right now and right now. These women are making every excuse possible to like not say anything positive for on reads behalf rate so to me. I think like nobis holding them accountable. -cause anybody who tweets them just gets blocked they have these huge platforms because they've spent four years building platforms and like editor connections and getting spots at all these like major outlets through dunking on trump through criticizing Brad Kavanagh through saying me to make sense in me. Two doesn't have any holes. Everybody else has a hole in. It brings me back actually to one of the responses to the season. Sorry piece was by somebody named Nadia Agarwal. Where it's ironic 'cause she's like dunking all this stuff and talking about like Brown women and like empowerment and stuff in part of it. But then she's like she talks about how like we don't know the person who reported A season sorry. We don't know her race and like it came out like that. It was a white person. It was a white woman who who does have who is very white feminist But also Agra like oh in like sexual violence. There's there's no room for race. I'm a brown woman and I say this and so these like also these brown women who are like very pm see. I would argue in and and women of color have done this where they've put up these white women like sady doyle and stuff like that so the they're kind of almost untouchable because they do have a buffer of friends who are people of Color who should be holding them accountable but they don't site. I think the future is that. There's this this liberal feminism hole. Where like they choose they choose? Who is a rapist? And they choose who is bad and they choose good victims and bad victims and we see that with Toronto BREATH AND AO. See Right now. Dicing their words around How to hold Biden accountable and we see people saying he can be accountable. And they're using their their bastardising honestly Language around transformative justice the worst part the final way to weaponize like language tended pretty opposite and use it to Different than that girl. Calling a trolling white guys on tender reparations trivializing misusing a serious social justice movement. She says it's justified something. You basically trivializing it. Yeah I forgot which person like furious at one hundred years ago. Or they're like the appropriation of like socialist language and like workers rights is going to be the downfall of the left which is like what I'm seeing with. This like white feminists media that you're identifying to where like they're literally putting out pieces in the biggest places like New York Times and stuff like that being like. We have a hard decision to make. Now while Alah and like it's it's listenable. Llanos are making a big show of up the Supreme Court hearings and sitting behind the Guy. Kavanag for photo ops glaring at him and stuff and then suddenly Saying I believe believe women a straight facing onto believe women didn't actually mean believe all women Nick and making excuses rank and the problem is the problem. Is this like okay? People come to you and ask you to write this piece right but if you get blackballed fine people. I'M GONNA go out to you editor you know Meanwhile like if a man of color or white man did it it would look like. Hey a a trying to make Excuses for him. And that's what we believed. You never say a believe women ended up being like a hypocrisy and whatever now you look like somebody who just wants like. You don't look like this people will say what straight face that you're a rape apologist. You know So they basically put in the place where the only people who can really get away with doing devastating. Take down this is going to have to be One of their own and doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon. Like rose McGowan on for example with someone who was kind of on par with a listener. Llanos is being a face of this movement who was willing to take a listen to task for being a hypocrite. You know in that carried a certain amount of weight that you know someone else doing a lot of these sixth Toronto Burke Right Burke. She just happened to be invited. You know she's been doing this stuff in a very low level but known with no notice and she just looked up into cloud because she just happened to have a. Hashtag that coincided with listen Milan on us and to save face 'cause These different black women were like actually someone else didn't meet her to a different metoo. It was it was related to women but it wasn't part of the same wave of accusations and and sexual harassment that listen a lot of was talking about but someone acknowledged someone told me that this was actually a pre existing. Hashtag and movement. And you know I wanNA apologize sued. Toronto Burqa also. Invite her on board. So trying to bridge is basically this old. Hashtag just by virtue of it's still being up look into this clout. She's not gonNA mess things up and go back to obscurity she. She's not gonNA call listen. Milano who basically Was Gracious enough to let her call herself. The founder of the metoo movement even though she was really a founder of a whole different unrelated me Movement but I think there's a lot of that with a lot of these writers of Color Garner gender where there's only one of us in louder time to sit at the table. Maybe two and if I make too many waves they're gonNA throw me back where I came from. And there's like fifty more like me waiting in the wings Can your place with because during the three of us at time. Yeah and I've heard this to like in my work. Life often where people are like. Just do the change from within like there'll just replace you. It's like the diversity. It's like the diversity curse where like these people fought for diversity without structural changes and they just thought to be like a warm body at a table so like they're very disposable and replaceable rape but I think also like there's there's a problem with me too. That's a big problem that now we're seeing with all of this is like nobody ever operationalized goals for me to there's never been like operationalized goals and there's never been operationalised definitions and there's never been like third. There was no like real respect like reckoning with like the history of sexual violence in the nation and like why has sexual violence for different groups? It was like as if it all touches everybody the same way when like when we we know that's like one not true and then. I was part of a project at a drop in Toronto where it was actually kind of countered storytelling me too because The drop in that I was working at those women are like hundred percent. Never GonNa be part of a mutual narrative right there like sex worker substance users women who don't look a certain way and so. I think like the big thing that people always don't realize that like me too did cater to various specific types of women women who are like able to vocalise their stories women who have platforms women who are literate to a point where they can like right narrative and present it in a way that people consume well and I think we're seeing that even with Not to just keep bringing it back to this book blase Ford and Tara. Reid like Tarot read doesn't speak the way Bazi Ford does. She's not a tenure profit in. That's playing a huge role. She's not saying my limbic system was impacted years later. She's not using that language right. She's like been described as like a little girl for some people have brought up that. She's like not prettier like put together and like On slee Sleet Political Gab. Fast fast I think Emily Nausbaum. Who's also a big METOO feminist quote unquote? Person was like trying to like a mediate on why she doesn't believe her read the same way and she basically came to the conclusion If you really sit with it that she doesn't because basically Tara reads like not an academic and I think metoo really was good for for basically I think. People who can articulate their stories People I basically people who can present their ideas in a certain way and people who liked looked consumable in palatable to the public and terrorists still is a just like yeah basically. I think it's a big weird mess worth People in in like it's going back to respectability honestly like when they think it's interesting like I feel even if you do can create something where you put people on the top of color. You don't just get people seat at the table. But maybe a little more structural changes in a couple of people on the top of whatever organization you have and have them be of color another problem. That thing happens. I think a lot of the people who are able to climb these organizations as people of Color do it by not rock the boat by being one of the gang. You know you know the same rain accent women. Rise to the top of traditionally sexist field by over compensating on being frat Bros themselves like. I'm sure a lot of people of color who get to the top of things do it by not rocking the boat or being actually well socialized for white spaces. I think a lot of people say oh put their just put people cut the table. Put them in charge but a lot of times people in charge the overcompensate to show that they're not being partial to their own you know. Ucs high as Obama Obama was very hamstrung by. He didn't WANNA SEE. Nike was giving back special treatment so he ended up almost doing nothing really just for black people. It was yet to show you the president of all America not just black America but these people are listening Alana. When he's other people. Emily Nussbaum is people. They really clear they have no problem. Changing a playing spring favorites on whim. Yeah actually I was wrong. It's emily a Basilan so I want to correct that sorry button. Nausbaum has her own weird thing with like people of color and just like elect people of color because people of Color but it was basil on. Who did the weird? They gone to read where she's she's just like lost in my opinion. But but I think it's People don't ever think about like structural change or like people don't think about like okay if if if now. I have a for example people are talking about Nikki. Haley running right. That's the big thing Nikki Haley Run after trump right Nikki. Haley is like South Asian. And I think it's weird that people think like Nikki. Haley is going to bring girl power to like this bad stuff or like Brown girl power. I think it's really bizarre. I mean there's a leftist That goes around the clap emojis. More female wardens. Yeah that's what I thought particularly when people are like. Oh Nikki Haley Blah Blah Blah. I'm like really like this is this is bad like this is really bad like it's not like a like actually today. I saw a tweet that somebody sent me. That was like Oh man you should come back on. Just a fight with this person in there talking about the cultural renaissance of Brown people and they were naming all the people we have like politics or like we have in media under naming They were literally naming trash like literally. They're naming trash in there in the person's just like we have all these Brown people. Now it's so good and So like it's A. It's a renaissance of Brown people who've been neglected in media things like that and I think it's I think it's bizarre. The whole league just elect somebody because of their like warm body identities. I've always thought it was weird. Like how they are like women. Vp WOMAN VP. And I'd like what's that GonNa do? Y- is very weird because like a lot of people I think. Now there's a cultural ethos and it's not even just with minorities. I think he's just in general like this idea of yourself as a brand of yourself just something to constantly image to cultivate image of market. Like like you have to do it all now. You can't be the best writer that you WanNa be and then just sell yourself to a newspaper in have them higher. You can't be the best model or actress or whatever you WANNA be a people. Now we want you to be publicised. They want you to be your PR person. They want you to cultivate your own audience. You know and then bring all this stuff to them you know like they want you to show up and show up in basically bring your own audience. Being influence her be Already known like following on social media in all that stuff so I think it's Kinda cultivated people just think of everything in terms of exposure in an clout late lake and not about about quality. Anything that helps the brand even by by proxy. Like you know if this becomes visible than this helps me Be Seen. This helps me. This is a promotion for for me. You know what I mean. Optimises is everything you know whereas if it was more about talent or believe it doesn't help you much because like if Michael Jordan Is like their premiere brand ambassador something and it's because it's basketball skills. That doesn't really help me because absolutely how to play basketball and that level but if somebody is getting put on just because they're black. Well Hey I can do. I've already done that. I've really done done three quarters of the work just by being me so I feel like in a weird way. It's about themselves. They kind of feel. There's some kind of personal brand benefit from this is almost product placement. Yeah and I think it doesn't help that. People have developed these weird like Peres social relations to certain people in media our like whatever like politics e around? Afc Ray ANC is a brand. I don't know if you're okay going into this territory because people hate talking. Afc because they're like Oh. She does more good than harm. But I'm like it's not about that it's about that. She's she's fully brand. She was on ru Paul's drag race and doing the most nationalistic patriotic stop. I've heard and anybody else who did what she did would be like cancels quote unquote. She like literally had a whole bit where she posted on her twitter. Where she's like. We are all patriots Blah Blah Blah. And I'm like are you. People still convinced that she doesn't give a crap about foreign policy like she literally who which person like Iran Omar has never ever ever ever been like. I'm a patriot. She's never done and she's been attacked so much. So it's not an excuse that it's like to normalize them and like make them more palatable to like American Public Bob like Ilhan. Marin Rashida tape have never been the knee with that stuff goes on Rupaul. And she liked does the whole bit and she does the light kind of she plays. She plays up how she pronounces her name sometimes. She did a video from Muslims recently. Where she literally was like playing up her own pronunciation of her name and all these Muslim words where like Muslims in America don't pronounce words like that year she she's something where I kinda saw when it was happening where I was like I feel like this is my big fear. Favorite people nephew black lives matter and not a black activist like a lot of people. Think they're savvy because they've caught onto the old person who pulled a trick on them but they're more than ready to be hoodwinked by the new face during the same trick but just slightly Refined or or adjusted. So it's like a lot of people are very congratulatory. Now that they kind of see through Obama and they'll talk about all this stuff like Oh. We were fooled was culture. Personality keyed the right package and said the right things but he didn't really follow through and it was charisma and good looks and whatever and while the pencils on the back with that as Andrea cashier. Cortez is showing danger of becoming a similar thing becoming home. Culture of Personality or someone who's kind of lightly vetted because People find her like likable this para social thing and I think that's the thing that's really dangerous. I feel that way with These two new shootings black men. That happened everyone from before. Who's trying to back on it? People like our de Ray and people at the root in other places trying to hop back on it and then and people are lay on. Remember you guys sold out. You never got anything done you. Guys just Try to Oscars write memoirs and appear in Vanity Fair. You guys just use it to build your own brands and people are feeling really good like I was talking with somebody else talking with A hundred AMIS and he was like yeah. I think people are too savvy. Now they're not gonNA fall for it again. I'm not. I'm not that optimistic. I think they're not gonNA fall from an old actors but I bet you brand new face comes is just a little more radical than Cindy Ray back lives matter and looks a little more punk rock or whatever or they'll more after centric wherever they're going to fall all over again and then a year from now gonna see that person attending the Oscars I I i. I Love Andre. So this is nice to hear his name. This conversation but with Obama. I don't know if you remember. But one of his big promises was to shut down Guantanamo Bay and he had all that language around it so like leftists who were kind of bitter about the Iraq war and like understood so like it's not fully type of online. Let's have now but like left. Activists did save Obama. Kind of is like harm reduction. Or whatever and he'll shut down Guantanamo Guantanamo still open. We'd like romanticized now or we're in this weird post world where like Michelle Obama Hugs Bush. He hangs out with Ellen DeGeneres. It's weird it's super weird and grotesque and and they're all brands right an AO see. I think you're right. She's GonNa be lightly vetted because she has all this activist language anytime I've ever tweeted about. Afc and I'm so light about it. I'm like AFC is kind of a centrist. Stop saying she's radical because she says prison abolition and people just start getting so angry or you get attacked for that. I walked very recently very recently right. Everybody kind of got on you. Yeah all these leftists who are like my friends and comrades like they just jumped on me they were like I got. I got like I've never really threatened with rape or assault. It was the first time. Somebody's like cokie. Tounsi rapes you. Was like a big follower of mine for years. And he was like he was like I hope the DNC rapes for being bad to like the most radical person. We've had in the in the in Congress for this long and I was like are you okay. And then Michael Brooks Michael Brooks like took it up with me. And then people started attacking on my behalf or whatever. I don't know so weird. It was weird when you said that threat that he said I found myself laughing not because it was funny to threaten sexual violence but because it was just such a weird threat like it'll be someone just saying out of the blue the DNC Lynch's you but but they're supposed to be a on the left late. Why not just say hey? I hope the hoping the DNC disappoints you like. Why go that far? Because it's kind where you're supposed to be on the left supposed to be better than this stuff but you go to the most vile plays instantly to the point of things even nonsensical like the idea of institution. Oh and it was like it was like a very Very well described threat to it was like literally. I hope the DNC like rods your legs and rapes you for like not liking AFC. It was so vile and the person kept following me. They would like reply to my tweets and tell me how smart and great I was and I was like cigarette. Just mad at me for this thing and it happened with so many people I got messages. I have opened yams of people being like You just are jealous. 'cause you're Brown woman who's like not in Congress I'm like that's like not my aspirational goal. Like that's not something. I desire for For Soviet I. I'm an American citizen but I am in Canada. Yeah so I am an American citizens. I think people think I want that stuff I also. Yeah I I am in Canada and I'm quite happy to be honest league. Has its own problems. But it's better in Florida. I think I think when people do that. I think when people do that wasn't something about themselves because I feel like if you're in the jumped this person's jealous because they want clout or exposure. Then I think if anything. That's kind of revealing you you're projecting your own thing because it's weird like. I don't normally jump to that with people. I try to get people who good faith that they have a real Disagreement with something so I was used to find it very interesting. That people will ask. I always jumped to. There will always jump to You're just jealous or or you wish you had that exposure. When at the time when d'auray was still untouchable as far as being criticized now kind of become kind of market open joke only really really hardcore groupie that thinks still kind of rock with him or really tone deaf like boomer type centrist still believe as connection to any radical tradition. But at the time it was uncool to this like matter what I brought up about him no matter whether there was about his Stuff with teach for America and all these weird neoliberal think-tank institutions and things he was connected within and how it came out of nowhere. Clearly like astroturf type of plant. Everyone's like Oh you know you just you just jealous and there. There was a guy who was on the ground in Ferguson was from Ferguson. Who WAS COMPLAINING? About how the direct kind of a protest crasher who hijacked the protests and may may face an people just complaining to him Just wish that you were getting on. Tv like him disguised even trying to get on TV. He's he's still in Ferguson. He's not he doesn't have a head shot he's not trying to break into that before. I think it's bizarre. I guess because I'm older than I am but not that much older than I am and I guess we're both like Brown woman who are left so people were just like thinking that that's what I aspire to but I. I have no aspirations to be an electoral politics. As of right now in my life browns will ask me what is Brown is Brown mean. I mean you're from Pakistan Morocco in. She's She Puerto Rico. Like yeah I mean th the Chart. You guys are close somehow. Make sure that yeah. I'm I'm Muslim. I care a lot about foreign policy. She clearly doesn't it. I would never identifies Patriot on a TV. Show like Rupaul drag race. I would never tell people there. Patriot I don't I don't think nation states are good like wouldn't I don't think like we're we're very different so it was just bizarre? That people were like you wish you had that platform. I'm like no actually don't actually have no desire. I like being in my community and like working in my community and doing what I do with people who are like at drop. Ins and doing hybrid. Like that's what I like but I actually what you're making me. Think of with your as you're making me think about more recently Shaun King and like how people are so unable to kind of deal with him because he does do. I don't know if I'm right or wrong here because I did tweet on the podcast account and so many people had different opinions but People are like well even of Sean kings bad like sometimes steals money and does this kind of Protest crashing or whatever. He does get things done at times but then he has this weird thinking about Brown nece. He has this thing about race. That's confusing so does Rachel does is L. Were like they have. They have relations to community more so than like Warren which is weird but then Warren gotta pass. But they don't get a pass and and I'm not saying this is good or bad. I'm just saying it's such a weird conversation. And they have celebrity actors. You know. There's a good part. Yeah the cost. Shaun King Things Talcum X. And all these other derogatory nicknames but Elizabeth Warren Street up. And it's no big deal you know. It's it's kind of funny position at Harvard Lying. That was meant to go to a black woman. Because Derrick Bell step down to give that position to a black woman. Zan this huge but a lot of these black women that is back. Feminism who check firmness Were rallying for her heart. All right you. Also that is the end part one goto again. Kitchen DOT com slash champagne or click building in the show notes. Get part two speakers.

writer White Women Dave Brown twitter rape Joe Biden Toronto editor white ally Industrial Complex Warren Karen harassment Nikki Haley Schwab Nashville New York America teen vogue Bernie White Ryan White
F*ck Silence: Joe Walsh Takes on the Trump Cult

Alyssa Milano: Sorry Not Sorry

50:44 min | 9 months ago

F*ck Silence: Joe Walsh Takes on the Trump Cult

"Hello podcast people. Are you subscribe to spotify yet? I am and I love it so much. Spotify has a huge catalog of my favorite podcasts. On every topic including mine. When you download spotify you can follow your favorite podcast so you never miss an episode. Premium users can download episodes. Listen to offline wherever you are and you can easily share what you're listening to with your friends on instagram. How cool is that? So if you haven't done so all ready be sure to the spotify APP search for Illicit Milano. Sorry not sorry on spotify or browse podcasts. In Your Library Tab also make sure to follow me so you never miss an episode. Hi I'm Melissa Lotto and this is sorry not sorry. My guest today is Joe Walsh. Joe is a former Republican congressman from Illinois a conservative radio commentator and a former candidate for president who challenged Donald Trump for the twenty twenty nomination. Joe And I disagree on almost everything but not on one of the most important issues of our day that Donald Trump is an existential threat to our nation in our conversation. Today we talk about the state of the Republican Party the dangers of trumpism and Joe's new book Fuck Silence. It's important that we find common ground where we can and I'm very glad to share this conversation with you is a member of the Tea Party Caucus named Joe Walsh Congressman Republican hundreds of Outta within the Party district. It's time to call in the SANDMAN TO PULL DONALD TRUMP warning new political threat potential challenge from one of his own conservative firebrand. Joe Walsh a tea party congressman now talk radio host and no stranger to controversy and incendiary rhetoric. These are not conventional times these are urges times. Let's be real. These are scary times so the hell with those conventional things today. I'm declaring my candidacy for president of the United States. Because it's time it's time to be Donald. Trump has lied to you and he's screwed you. His terrible tariffs you've paid the price for trump's tariffs right. They've made Your Life. Ms Ending my candidacy for president of the United States. Look I got into this because I thought it was really important that there was a Republican. A Republican out there every day calling out this president for how unfit he is. Hey I'm Joe Walsh and I am determined to do whatever I can this year to make sure Donald Trump is not reelected. Sorry not sorry I wanNA start sort of in the beginning with you because I think he your trajectory to where we are today is very compelling and also I think there might be something that people can relate to write our story right. So will you tell us a little bit about how you grew up pretty mundane? I mean a big Old Irish Catholic family of nine kids Dad both passed away within the last couple of years. I Love My mom and dad a pretty lovely boring childhood. I was the middle child of nine. I grew up a loan in the family and I knew when you come from a big family. Elissa you fight for your parents attention and so when I look back a lot of the things I've done in life has been to galvanize people to make people stand up and pay attention about things I care about but I loved coming up in a big family. So what were your interests you know? I always in maybe similar to you from the earliest age. I cared about history. I've always been enamoured with American history. I was watching the other night. The first part of the special on the history channel George Washington. I saw it too is wonderful. I WANNA watch the rest of it. I'm convinced I've always kinda believed in reincarnation. I'm convinced I lived at that time really Olisa. I've been obsessed with the revolutionary period for as long as I can remember really. Yeah so how does that manifest itself in your daily life? Do you get deja booze. Do you get I often and I've often ramped of that period. I've been obsessed with books in movies of that period and it's led to my interest in this country the problems in this country where we are now suavely. My interest in history always led me to politics governance so in high school. What was important to you. Are you an athlete at all? I was I mean I was Mr Baseball Basketball football president my senior class all of that but always board a little bit nice school. I was always thinking beyond high school and then when I was in college I was bored and college and think beyond college so I never really felt like I fit in in those slots and you study in college. I was in English major political science minor interesting. Yeah Yeah so you get out of college. You're still in your hometown. Where'd you get a call? I went to a small school in the middle of Iowa called Grinnell College then I transferred to the University of Iowa graduated there. I took time off. I hopped on a greyhound. Bus came out here to become an actor. Didn't 'cause I was lazy ass and I rode my bicycle. Up and down all over California tended bar and just dreamt a lot then went back to I will finally graduated once the acting bug kind of went away and then I spent time in the city of Chicago after I graduated mostly on the south side of Chicago working with low income black white and brown kids on job training and educational at their educational skills. And you were registered Republican. At this time. I've probably been registered Republican my whole life. I've rarely describe myself as a Republican which is odd because I ran for president as a Republican. I've always considered myself sort of libertarian slash conservative. Don't like the word conservative. But I've always felt an obligation to help people who are not as well off as me. I've never anything that that drive came from. Joplin my mom. My Mom was a servant. She was a teacher. She was a a special education teacher. She loved history as well and she just. She instilled in me at least that that was part of why we were here. A big part of why we were here and that combined with my sort of political ethos which is i. Don't want government doing everything for people. I want US doing more for our fellow. Man has always led me toward the helping professions. It's interesting because I think when you think of Libertarian. You don't think of fellow man helping fellow man you think of like someone you know in a cabin who doesn't over them show all by themselves. Who has you know? I think that if more people understood that the libertarian sort of ethos is that and yeah but I think there's so much that is politically misunderstood right now and I think it feeds into exactly what we're seeing right now with this administration but also it's so interesting to me how we've lost sight of the grey areas in life and I don't know if that's because maybe twitter maybe we have these little short bursts of information and were not able to really see nuance right. Like nuances dead total. So we think of Republicans and we think of Libertarians. And we think of Democrats we think of very specific people void of any nuance right. I mean if you are this you have to be this this this and this. I'm wondering when you started to see that happen. I mean my husband when I first met him was a registered. Republican was he. Yeah he was a register and you know a progressive Republican. I don't know if a progressive Republican exists anymore is that what is that but you got. I mean it's better than a regressive Republican which seems to be the way of the party right now. It's a-list issues everything's broken. I mean just step back. We have a horrible human being in the White House. I mean you and I may differ on a lot of issues almost everybody outside of his crazy supporters understand that we have horrible human being in the White House. How the hell did he get there? I think he got there because our political system is just flat out broken. So why should we take you seriously? And I don't know that you should. I hope you look. Let's just be clear from the outset. I announced about five months ago that this former Republican congressman is going to take on a sitting trump sitting president named trial. Nobody JOE in their right mind should think about doing this. Unless you have a really good reason it's easily the most freaking difficult thing I've ever done as you mentioned. I mean I come from a certain place politically most of the people in that world politically. They loved trump. So I've lost my friends I've lost my supporters. I get threats all the time. It's been difficult. The party has tried to whack me every single day. I'm doing it and I got into joe known it would be difficult many things but I'm not dumb. I knew it would be difficult. I thought it was important. I believe unfit so. It's that message that we've led with. Which is I know who I am. I know this isn't going to be easy but that kind. The White House scares the hell out of me. He should scare everybody. And we've led with that message in everything we do. What is the most broken thing that you feel enabled him to become president about the political system? We go into the social aspect. I think there is a lot though is broken in society that allowed for him. I think especially when you talk to his supporter and I know his supporters. Well because they voted for me and they've listened to me on the radio the last seven years they feel like Washington. Dc doesn't give a fuck about them and hasn't for a long time. Republicans and Democrats. They don't care about me. We got like thirty nine different. Genders now everybody Kerry who they WANNA marry. I got people who don't look like me coming across the border and Washington's not listening and so along comes this asshole this demagogue. Who At least gave them the impression that he's paying attention Yeah I mean. I think that that's still a problem with the Democratic Party. I think that we discuss really lofty things like impeachment Ukraine and Russia and without any historical context because most people don't have the history of those of those countries and we expect people to care and I think it's hard to care about impeachment when you can't put food on the table and you're working three jobs and you're living paycheck to paycheck and you're one flat tire away from total financial devastation. That'S THE STUFF NANCY. Pelosi wanted to be talking about all year. And that's why trump's suck so much because if Ukraine never happened Nancy was going to hold off. She didn't want impeachment. She knew it would probably hurt them politically and she wanted to talk about. What you're talking about city think it's hurt them politically no. I don't actually I think you see it. In the polls the vast majority of American people know what he did was wrong and the vast majority of the American people know that the Senate didn't even a trial so I think the Republicans are going to be hurt this share and they show. Oh absolutely I want to talk to you. Obama's should be but can we back up. You being total Republican. I think even given you shit on twitter many times too often deserve apologies for that but but this should go as an example that people can come together despite our differences and have a civil conversation and look at each other in the eye and want. What's right for this country in my business? Having straight teeth is so important and for me that meant making sure my teeth were perfectly straight with candid. If you're unhappy with your smile or self conscious and photos you have to check them out. They deliver clear liners right to you and straighten your teeth for sixty five percent less than braces and the best part they are totally invisible. 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Sorry that's candid co dot com slash. Sorry use code. Sorry for seventy five dollars off candid coat. Dot Com slash. Sorry Code Sorry. I went to Washington in two thousand ten. I was praying to party class. And I I know just that term. Elissa can like drive people crazy. Everybody's got thirty nine different definitions of tea party. I went there because we're bankrupting future generations. Both parties are doing it and neither party wants to address it. That whole thing got taken over because look at trump now. He's increasing the debt faster than Obama. Didn't where the tea party people. But that's what drove me. It's a good point where the tea party you know. What they're they're washing trump's feet it just a a Taylor set trump's a horrible dude and nothing. He does surprises me. He's a criminal all of my former colleagues in the House and Senate Jim Jordan Jim Jordan. Nice to be friends. I don't even recognize him now. His enablers deserve the worst. I've spoken to enough of them privately and everything. I say about trump publicly. He's a moron. He's a bigot. He's a pathological liar. Alyssum most the Republicans privately. You know this. They agree with almost all of that. Still though yes 'cause I remember I went to. I went to lobby for the national endowment of the crew. I well that too but that was recently but right after trump was elected remember when he said that he was going to cut funding for the National Endowment of the arts. I was convinced that's because nobody showed up. That had a sad cartoons inauguration but that's a whole other story so I went and we meet with Republicans and Democrats and it was no different than normal except you know. I was very vocal to say. I'm very concerned that this guy will actually cut our budget. Everyone was like. Don't worry about Ham. We know how to control him. He's just the face of this. Like Republicans were literally telling me not to worry. Nobody's going to listen to him. We got this under control casting him off as being totally inept and not powerful at all and you know they. Republicans would ask for the Selfie and they'd post a Selfie the difference between a year later when I went back to lobby. They wouldn't take the meetings the few meetings that I did get with Republicans and this was for the equal rights amendment. They asked me not to post the pictures or to publicize that actually sat down with so there was a definite shift. They still don't like him and they know he's a bad person and many of them know he's hurting the Republican Party. It's just now it's put on my team uniform. 'cause we gotta beat the Democrats and it's about them losing their seats. What Eliza it's abject fear it's fear of him it's fear of his supporters. If you stick your neck out right now against trump you will probably not get reelected. All of his supporters will turn on you. Why put up with all of that? The President Sun Slammed Romney for his vote. Earlier this evening it's flip-flop for political expediency on every major conservative issue that he says he believes that now that he's in Utah again. He has come to Donald Trump for his endorsement for money. When he was running he blew his chance. Bigly he's not brave he's a coward and it's fear of what the Democrats might do. If the Democrats are in charge. I mean I had a republican congressman. Told me privately. I know trump's an asshole but he's my coach and the other teams bad so I just have to fight against the other team and that's what it feels like. It feels like I mean to put it. Put it in the simplest terms my son. Who'S EIGHT SAYS MOMMA? Who's winning today the red team or the Blue Tier? That's so tribal. It's so tribal it's so tribal and as a parent it's terrifying. Because you know the message that you can control in the home right and sometimes. I feel like that goes overboard because let me tell you why because I don't know what he's getting outside the home and so especially now because I feel that a lot of other bad people have been emboldened to be vocally bad and not like in their grandmother's basement bad so it's it's terrifying to me two-parent like that and I know that they feel the stress of it. I know that they do because it's it's everywhere so if I was in the car with my son the other day my husband was talking about Bloomberg my son got eight years old my son Mike. Oh my God I'm like how do you know that's his first name? And he said mom before every single youtube video there's an ad from Michael Bloomberg and so there is that crazy. So they're absorbing all of this information and so then it becomes in teaching in parenting. I think it becomes even more tribal via and that's terrifying to me even though I know that I'm part of that. And then you have these echo chambers of social media which is so dangerous. Because you're just putting things out to the audience that wants to hear what you're you have to say. And that's why people like you renew my faith in humanity because you're putting out something that is very different than what your followers on twitter or probably expect on illicit like. I was a conservative talk radio host for six years yes and I mean you are browbeat now you have to kiss trump's feet every day and I couldn't do that I wouldn't do that. I lost my radio show no matter what Israel today came out and said if she wants to commend Israel just visit her ninety year old grandmother. We'll let her do that but she can't do anything else seems. She can't politics and she can't advocate for her Palestinian caused the BBS movement. Anything like that will let her into Israel if she just wants to visit her ninety year grandmother to which congresswoman to leave said heck no no way that's insulting but people candy and Limbaugh in these guys. They purposely lie to their listeners. Think how sad that is limbaugh. Not a dummy Hannity Hannity. Maybe be a dummy Alicia. They purposely light. The administration does as well exactly when truth doesn't exist anymore. What happens to a nation when truth does not matter what happens to a nation when facts are not facts so I was campaigning in Iowa a week before the caucus trump had one of his big dumb ass rallies? They're reflected a moines I'm a Republican run for president. So I worked. The line of everybody going into the rally. Elicit was the most depressing forty five minutes. I've ever spent my life. I asked forty trump supporters in line. Forty us the same question has donald trump ever told a lie to the American people and all forty said No. That's sad and you almost don't blame them because they're not being told well the truth it's interesting because it is such a and. I know you've used this word as well. It feels like a cult. I remember after twenty six. Maybe in the middle of two thousand seventeen I went on MSNBC. And I called it a cult. Federally that early Stephanie Rule and she kind of like was taken aback by it almost but I really feel like it is a colt and he is their leader and he has manipulated and spun the magic and smoke and mirrors and the problem is is that those are the people that need the most help in the country right. Those are the people that have seen factories that have broken down and it's because of their vulnerability that they bought into what he was selling. Look I've given up on the Republican Party. The Republican Party is a cope right. They no longer stand for ideas. The Republican Party right now is all about washing their leaders feet every day. That's what they do. I don't think there's anything. More corrupt or heartbreaking than that. It is the helplessness of people. That creates you know the opportunity for a regime like this. Yeah Yeah it's in you get it. I know you get it. And I wish more people on the Democrat side would get it what elected him because we need to understand that so that we can beat him. That's right when I left the race. I said I'm a conservative. I'll support whoever the Democrats nominate and I think it's important. We all do that but gosh I hope. They nominate someone who can beat him. So let's talk about. What got you to this point was there. Was there a specific thing that he did where you're like you know what that's it for me? I'm out such a great question. I've been asked a million times and my answer is always a little bit different. I voted for him in two thousand sixteen. A you have to leave now. I have to leave not because I loved him or liked him. I'm guilty of one thing. I didn't pay enough attention to. I'd Never Watch the apprentice. I'm older than you. I didn't pay attention them in the eighties nineties. I figured he's a goof. He's a blowhard. Maybe he'll appoint a few good people and maybe a few things happened. I think that's what a lot of people thought. I think people thought he would surround himself with good people and nothing would get broken for four years right. But then Eliza man after he won and on the radio around the country. I had to pay attention to him. Every F word out of his mouth was ally. I didn't really realize he lied as much as he did. That really began to move me off of him. We've never experienced this. The final Straw for me was Helsinki and twenty eighteen when he stood with Putin in front of the world and said I believe that guy not my own people that that was like the greatest. Act OF DISLOYALTY I've ever seen in. Your name is Vladimir Putin then today was a very good day because today the president of the United States took your side in a fight between you and the United States breaking news siding with Putin president trump comes out of his meeting with the Russian President and rebukes US intelligence agency said president is standing with the Russian president while trashing his own country. The president of the United States will not say he believes his own government over president. Putin I think that press conference was the single most embarrassing performance by an American president on the world stage said I've ever seen the most embarrassing performance by American President. No hard it is to achieve that George. H W Bush wants threw up on the Japanese Prime Minister and trump is now on top and at that point. I went on the radio and I sit down with him. I will never support him. That decision hard for you huge. Because I knew I was going to probably lose my radio show right so tell me about that process for you. Did you tell your bosses? I don't think I told him. Prior to that show after that show they got in my ear and that the context here was after trump won every few days. They would tell us my bosses. You know things we need to say and we gotta be on team trump. Don't criticize him. When trump won I tried to just do the good trump at trump thing and I'd criticize him in praise him based on the policy. But they didn't like that and that that even wasn't tenable anymore because I knew in my head my heart I didn't like the guy and I knew in my head. My heart he was bad for the country right so the stations just pounded me and I lost advertisers. I lost listeners but I only say what I believed. Yeah and you can actually go to bed at night knowing that. You're not lying to the American people with my three dogs now soon to be five. Thanks to you. You're not taking my so you make this decision last year. I said somebody has to run against him on the Republican side. Mitt Romney. Where are you John Casick? I wrote an OP ED in the New York Times in August and I said he's unfit some. Republican has to challenge him and I apologize for what I had done the prior eight years to lead to Donald Trump but no other republicans stepped up. And so I did. Who Do you think is the backbone of the Republican Party right now as far as being true Republicans and not just trumpsters? Gosh that's on Good Korani. You'd have to put Romney in that. Camp. That's is that a lesser. Yoon are struggling. 'cause I don't think there are many these guys like Ted Cruz and Nikki Haley. They're just waiting for trump to lose and then they WANNA be the face in twenty twenty four now. I met with Ted Cruz on on gun. Violence Prevention I watched that and I still to this day will email him every once in a while saying. We're waiting for your moment looking for a Republican hero. You know something to try to encourage him to do the right thing. 'cause you know that guy knows the right thing to do right now? Here's how serious it is. I think the Republican Party has done. I think it's breaking up. Because you're talking about Joe Walsh and Ted Cruz and I will never support him again. He called trump a pathological liar and immoral three and a half years ago and he was right. And now what he's doing now Lindsey Graham same thing. That's unforgivable and McDonald's just always been an asshole two years he's just evil right just to is. I've got to tell you I'm blown away in my disappointment with the Republican Party. Who is in cahoots with this president and again literally eliminating elections? This is the Republican Party as most people know it today. The champ is drill baby drill. And that's what we hear all across this country in our rallies because people are so hungry for those domestic sources of energy to be tapped into our budget includes the largest increase in defense spending two decades because while the price of freedom and security is high it is never too high but the GOP hasn't always been anti immigrant for a war and fuel hungry time has come for man to make his peace with nature every man woman and child with a disability can now pass through once closed doors into a bright new era of equality independence and freedom. So what does it say to the American people? When the House passes four hundred bills that are like eighty percent of a more bipartisan bills and McConnell refuses to even put them up or even send them back or if it says the system's broken this is partly the system that our founders gave us when I was in Congress and the Republicans control the House. We sent hundreds of bills to Harry Reid the Senate and he didn't touch him. Not As many. Bipartisan is now though I will acknowledge but yeah it's just it's like and prior to trump the average American would sit out there and see this and say it's a food fight. Nobody's paying attention to me. But now all of trump's people are just in their own tribe. And when did that shift I mean I remember growing up and seeing Republicans and Democrats actually coming together to get things done? I don't remember a specific moment when that changed was at nine eleven. Was it much of Gu questions you do. You know I mean someone I asked this question before and someone said that maybe it was. Perhaps because sessions were not broken up as much as they are now so all the kids went to school together they all lived in DC. They got to see other at school picnics and socialize to socialize together at at Baseball Games and whatnot. And maybe that's the reason in that changed show like by the time I went to Congress. I slept on the floor my office. I didn't WanNA live in Washington. Dc There were a lot of congressmen like me. Republican and Democrat. And that's okay. I prefer that but we never talked to anybody in the opposition party on years ago. You can't function like that agreed is how do we fix that? Well step one is we have to get rid of trump. None of what you and I are talking about right now. You and I listened run the world and I think we could bring the world together. Nobody's going to be able to do this until trump's gone. He is an absolute cancer. We won't talk about the climate. We won't talk about healthcare. We won't talk about anything but trump until he's gone then. I think a question for you. Don't use sense on social media a bit of a yearning to have the two sides come together or do you still think we're like this. I have to tell you I find twitter to be a dumpster at it really and I'm sure you get the same vitriol that I get and it's very very hurtful and an awful and regardless of what people's beliefs are that are different than mine. It is harassment. Like if people were to say that to me in my face I could actually call the police. Oh it's it's that it's that bad and it's it's soul crushing. Yes and I understand the value of it and how I have to continue to use it but it's hard I find. Facebook can be that way as well. Yeah I'm I'm very rarely on facebook. If you haven't heard about anger let me tell you a little bit about it. It is the easiest way to make a podcast. I've just joined and I can't tell you how much I love it. And here's a few reasons why it's free. It's super easy to create and record podcast right from your computer. Literally anyone can do it. Anchor handles all of the distribution. All you have to do is record or upload your podcast and then they send it out to spotify and apple podcasts and everywhere else and get this anchor can help you get paid for podcasting without any minimum listener number. Everything you need to make your podcast is in one place at anchor. Download the free anchor APP or go to anchor dot. Fm to get started. We're all human rights. We all make mistakes and sometimes the best way to learn from a mistake is to hear from others who have experienced the same thing. Well on the OOPS podcast Comedians Francis. Ls and Giulio galeotti examined the mistakes that alter the trajectory of people's lives taking a look at the bad decisions the aftermath the path to redemption. And all things in between Francis and Giulio want to hear about your mistakes and help you find your way back to redemption so check out the oops podcast on spotify or wherever you. Listen to your favorite podcasts. You know what I find. If this is any indication of that being true I will sometimes post you know sweet videos of animals or something like that and people that are often horribly cruel to me will say things like now. This is a post. I can support or something like that. Yeah like like jumping. Course nonpolitical non issue related at all. It's not even about being Vegan or anything but yeah so. I think I have to tell you the Ted Cruz meeting. I know a Lotta Shit from my side obliterated in that meeting I got a lot of the die hard advocacy activists that are working very hard to get amazing things done but that would say why would you. You're not going to get anything done with him. Why would you sit down with him to which my reply was will sit down with the Devil? That means we can get air fifteen out of our schools. Whoever replaces trump is going to have to make a Yeoman's effort to begin to unite the country. I just can't stress Enough Eliza. I know you know this. He's gotta be replaced. So you've had enough you go on your radio show you say you know what I'm done? I'm done with him and done with him. Was that your exact words and so I did that for two years. Has He gone after you? And so yeah. He took shots like we were. He blocked me on twitter relations. I was proud of that. And then all the conservative radio hosts were invited to the White House and he disinvited me and then he'd take shots but none of that necessarily mattered. What mattered was I was losing my audience. That's what made me sad a little these people who voted for me because I wasn't on team trump. They wanted nothing to do with me. And before trump Elissa you were defined by where you stood on the issues. Now it's all about where you stand on. Trump's rally stunners satisfying. That's it our you with him or against him. I mean I'm called Socialist. I'm called a rhino. I'm called every name of the book because I don't support him when I really in the same I've always been a most of the issues is cancel culture that we talk about you've been directly impacted by a cancel culture absolutely under what we do about that. The cancel culture. I think we have to figure out a way to do this. And maybe it's videos but a way to apologize if it is something you've done wrong and if it something that you've done wrong to at least go on twitter. Do a live video. I think communication being able to communicate. Your thought process is super important. It is I think very telling of where. We are anti so terrifying. Having kids in this generation that we build people up really it seems to simply tear them Daschle out of it. And we've seen some suicides recently because of that and I'm wondering what part of what do we do about the very distinct way people are getting their news and again going back to the echo chamber you know should networks like Fox or CNN or MSNBC should they be called more like op news networks. We're we're actually saying this is opinion news and not actual factual news do we go back to a PBS type format. Do we need a whole new network? How do we fix that part of it? Because that's a big big part of the chew because the Echo Chamber where we keep just hearing the same thing we're not having conversations with people that have differing opinions at all. No and we're not getting information. Trump has made everything worse. He's the worst of all of us. The office of the presidency over the last hundred years has gotten much more. Powerful than our founders. Envisioned trump has taken that and put it on steroids. The media in this country has always been biased. I love CNN MSNBC. I'm on all the time but I know when I go on CNN and MSNBC. I'm generally going to be dealing with good honest people who are more left of center but then Fox isn't just bias though. Fox's not factual CNN is factual MSNBC is factual Elissa. Raise a great point. Thirty five percent of the American people are being fed lies every day. I don't know what you do about that because I don't want the government to do anything about Fox News. President trump could not seem to get over the Fox thing as he called after Bernie Sanders became the only Democratic primary candidates so far to spar with Fox News hosts and a town hall setting trump lamented. This way on twitter so weird to watch crazy Bernie on Fox News not surprisingly Bret Baier and the quotes audience was so Smiley and nice very strange and now we have Donna Brazile. So here we are. We have our families that are molding the way you know our political ideology and how we think and then we go to college and that sort of solidifies whatever we were leaning towards and then we get out and we sort of look for people that are like minded right then social media happens and who we follow. We follow the people who have the same ideas as we do that. Believe the same things we believe in and then we go home and we watch TV at night and we're going to turn on the news and we turn on the station of the ideology of what we believe so. We are literally each of US living in a political box that everyone's afraid to open because nobody wants to have the conversations hard tough conversations even our politicians and I don't know how we come out of it unless we continue to you know maybe we should alive stream this conversation. You know what I mean where we show people face to face with differing opinions. You'll get shit for having me on your podcast. I don't care I listen to me you. You raise the million dollar point. The average American no longer wants to be informed. They want their beliefs reinforced. They WanNa be comforted at night. I I've had a long day. I've raised about. I want to turn on Fox News and what I believe I I wanna feel comforted in what I believe. And so what's going to change that? I believe in the marketplace. I believe that things like this half to grow and flourish and there need to be more courageous voices and I think you're courageous voice because you're a good genuine sincere woman of the left. Who will engage with anybody? Anybody you are setting an example. You need to do more of this because what I mean humanity at the end of the day it's about humanity and we're all connected. We're all connected. What do you think needs to be done now leading up to the election? What do you think we need to do? I think is so simple you do I do. Well look it look at me. I may call me what you want but I made tea party conservative and I make a pledge to anyone who will listen. That are only job right now. Gang is to remove this man from the White House so I pledge to support whoever the Democrat is if a crazy tea party conservative. Like me can do that than anybody can. I don't love Bernie. I hope the nominees not Bernie. But it doesn't matter to me with. This is one of those moments in this great country's history. I believe we're called to all do one thing you and I gotTa hold hands and get rid of him. Do you live on the Democrat side. I think any of them could be trump. Any Bernie could beat him because Bernie would energize a lot of people. I know for a fact that Amy Klobuchar would kick his ass. It wouldn't even be close. Yeah Eight Campaign. Oh my God smart. Yeah I know look I was out talking to Republicans for six months. Republicans in droves will vote for Klobuchar. They still would vote for Biden and they'd probably vote for Bloomberg if it's warriner sanders that would just scare the dickens out of people in the middle why because they think Bernie will lead to radical revolutionary stuff when you know they want they don't want their 401k's or their portfolios touched right now. I think there's a fear there Melissa. Here's your hope. I don't think trump's gained one new voter in the last three years. I mean I spent six months talking to all his voters and I wasn't going to convert any of them but he has not gained one new voter. He's the least popular president in modern times with the economy. We've got going right now. He should be God right but he's not because he's an ass. Most of the American people don't want to vote for him. They just got come together though. And that's what I worry about. What is trump mean for our democracy or republic? He Is Everything. Our founding fathers feared period. A We started this great experiment because we revolted against the king. This guy is a king. It's taken us. What two hundred forty years were back to a King? But he's a wakeup call. You've been active your whole life but I think he has woken people up. You see this probably better than I do. He's woken people up and I think that's great and I think people are definitely more involved and realize that it doesn't work unless they are involved so twenty twenty right around the corner. What are you personally going to do? Are you GONNA go? I'M GONNA campaign my ass off for whoever? The Democrat is you are so you're GONNA travel. You'RE GONNA do I have to do. We are going to start a C. For a political organization. And Elissa what I'm going to try to do is because I really believe it. I'd I'd rather have a socialist in the White House than a dictator. I mean that I'd rather have a Bernie Sanders in the White House pushing Medicare for all which I have problems with then a guy in the White House who can't tell the truth so I'm what I'm GonNa try to do is devote my time to going after. Republicans moderates and conservatives who I know are out there and convince them that trump's away bigger threat than whoever the Democrats put up and remember. It was real close election if I can get a few hundred thousand people to change their mind Alvin. The next seven months seventy seven thousand votes with three states. But I'd like for us and maybe I'll make this commitment to you if you will make this commitment to me. Try not to use those words that we fall into that are more talking point words than actual real policy the best thing that Donald Trump has done for me is. He's been a cold slap in the face to me. And Look Eliza you wouldn't have liked me five or six or seven years ago. I was one of the angry tea party. Guys I went to Washington. I said things about Obama. Republicans and Democrats watching this guy in the White House for three years has forced me to look back and reflect. Oh my God. Did I sound like that a little bit to the point where I've completely changed my tone book? It's got the greatest title talking about changing my talk. It's called Fuck Silence. Greatest title and hauling trump out for the MORONIC cultish authoritarian kind. Man He is. I'm tired of people being silent about what he is especially a listen. You know what he is and so many of your Democrat friends. Nobody is side is been afraid to say it but they know they know. And that's why I wrote the book 'cause I've had thousands of conversations over last year and a half and they say they say what that title is. Yeah he's a con man. Yeah he's an authoritarian so the book is Fuck Silence. Don't be silent anymore. This is two thousand twenty. We can't reelect him. It's a plead to get them out in the vote to publicly speak against trump and vote for whoever the Democrats put up. I am the people. The mob. The crowd the mass. Do you know that all the great work of the world is done through me? I am the working man. The inventor the maker of the world's food and clothes. I'm the audience that witnesses history. The Napoleon's come from me and the Lincoln's they die and then I send forth more Napoleon's and Lincoln's I'm the seed ground. I'm a prairie that will stand for much plowing terrible storms. Pass over me. I forget the best of me is sucked out and wasted. I forget everything but death comes to me and makes me work and give up what I have and I forget. Sometimes I- growl shake myself and spider a few red drops for history to remember. Then I forget when I the people learn to remember when I the people use the lessons of yesterday and no longer forget who robbed me last year. Who played me for a fool? Then there will be no speaker in the world would say the name the people with any of a sneer in his voice or any far of smile of derision. The mob the crowd the mass will arrive then Benazir Bhutto the former Pakistani prime minister who was assassinated for progressive views said extremism can flourish only in an environment where basic governmental social responsibility for the welfare of the people is neglected political dictatorship and social hopelessness create the desperation that fuels extremism trump flourishes in social hopelessness and as Joe. Walsh said trump wants to be a dictator. His policies bear it out time and time again. He attacks farmers with his tariffs. He attacks the poor with his cuts to welfare social programs. He attacks women with his threats to bodily autonomy. He threatens the sick and the disabled with his attacks on healthcare he attacks people of Color with his own hateful racism at every single turn trump and his enablers in the cult passing as the national. Republican Party are setting the stage for political dictatorship and all of us no matter our political affiliations must stand together to fight it. We have to take the brave actions of running against it of giving money and time tough. Fight it of risking everything. We are able to risk to defeat this dangerous evil regime so when you feel the most desperate look to the Joe. Walsh is the bill weld's and the Justin Amash. Shas look to those on the opposite side of your own beliefs. Who are standing up and saying no. You don't need to agree with them. But in them you will find courage and you will find a starting point for a return to normalcy. There is hope and there are sparks of life and decency and when we strike enough sparks. A fire will burn. Sorry not sorry is executive produced by a Lotta. That's me our associate producer. Is Ben Jackson Editing and engineering by Natasha's Jacobs and music by Josh Cooke a Leash Eagle and my locally Ari? That's my boy. Please subscribe on spotify tunes or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like the show please rate review and spread the word.

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