7 Episode results for "Ben Trump"

Thats President Sh*thole to you

Pod Save the World

1:19:16 hr | 7 months ago

Thats President Sh*thole to you

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You can set up your alarm system yourself with no tools needed or simply. SAFE's experts can do it for you and it's only fifty cents a day with no contracts go to simplisafe DOT COM. I'm sorry crooked world today and get free shipping on your order plus a sixty day money back guarantee that simplisafe dot com slash crooked world to save on home security today simplisafe simplisafe dot com slash crooked world. Welcome back to parts of the world. I'm Tommy Detour. I'm Ben Rhodes then less Iran today. Yes for now. How about that for now? Here's some topics we'd love to cover today. The there's some creepy new facial recognition technology that. I made a splash in the New York Times over the weekend the intelligence community is trying to hide the truth from trump in the public works plan. How talk about why? The entire Russian cabinet resigned with their spies is our lurking in Davos and some exciting new developments in DC on the antiwar movement. Front and then why mustaches and translation errors are roiling the foreign policy community. Yes then Ben is going to interview a fantastic journalist named Masha. Gessen ben with how you guys GonNa talk about well. Masha has for a long time. Been One of the smartest externals about both Russia and authoritarianism. So we're GONNA talk about the latest developments in Russia with Putin's latest power. Grab and how America's becoming more Russia. Yeah Yeah Great. Well it's been nice knowing you comrade okay too quick housekeeping items. In case you haven't heard positive America is going on. who were see where we're heading and get your tickets now at crooked dot com slash events? We just added a new Santa Barbara show on April seventeenth. presale tickets available. Starting Wednesday check get out. CROOKED DOT com slash events and episode three and four of the Wilderness are out subscribe and hear from focus groups of voters in the South West South East. Get to hear from Stacey Abrams and more listen episode three yesterday and it actually made me very hopeful because these voters are smart and educated and they feel gettable we just got to convince them to vote for Democrats. Okay let's get to the news. Let's start with this facial recognition story because a lot of people were freaked out over the weekend when the New York Times published a piece about this new commercial Marshall Facial recognition software that essentially could end privacy as we know. This APP allows users to upload a photo of anyone you meet they can use Google glass if you're one those losers who has one of those and then it can match. The technology matches that photo with public photos of that person. And you can tell you where they appeared so it could find googling of face it scrapes data from instagram facebook. Even youtube videos in. It's incredibly powerful. It's currently being used by some law enforcement and agencies across the country. You have to imagine that a spy service would kill for something like this to do counterespionage. Apparently big tech companies like facebook and Google have made could've made this type of software years ago but they didn't want to because of all the obvious privacy implications adding to the creepy and has been the company developed. The technology used it to monitor the reporter order working on the arm so she hasn't police officer to run her photo in their database and then soon after the company called those cops to say. Hey you guys talking to the press is very subtle one of the founders. The APP is a former Giuliani aides. That give you pause the cyber adviser. Yeah Yeah it was partially funded by Peter Thiel who was an investor in facebook and counts. It's year yeah. Loves or William. Big Data projects The article notes. They've pitched their services to a guy running for Congress. Paul Nalen who was a literal neo. Nazi Who ran in Wisconsin He was pitched for quote extreme opposition research wonderful. So obviously there's a good side to technology that can find dangerous rangers criminals sure Known as opposed to locking up criminals but the privacy implications of a private database that is exponentially larger than the FBI's criminal database. I work in just sweep up. People who happen to be in the background of a photo or video are enormous. We talked a bunch about how the Chinese are using. Yeah facial recognition and technology to suppress and imprison weaker Muslims in western China. It's pretty obvious how this could be used like. What do you think we do is it time? Can Congress just step in and like regulate these companies that solution. Yeah so I think we're like a tipping point with the development of these new technologies with artificial intelligence official recognition. There are a lot of ramifications Asian. So you see in China the worst case where there are literally hundreds of thousands of cameras around Jing province. Where the we are you know? If they see talking to an imam they could throw you in a concentration camp for being religious essentially and problems. We haven't really had a debate about this now. Some people people say well there's some benefits But the benefits are very much you know setting aside the criminal case you made kind of this creepy corporatism so facial recognition technology could allow you to walk into a store and the employees. Their new who you are no what kind of clothes you're looking for right. which maybe some people like that convenience? I think that's kind of creepy And there's also a real questions here with us. Companies right like Amazon Microsoft facebook anybody you might be able to develop this technology. Do they sell this to authoring countries who may want to use it. So this privacy in your own life privacy about what you want corporations to know about you. Those privacy concerns in terms of what would authoritarian governments. Do this technology you think the trump administration and an ace in what they might do with it uh-huh and and we just need regulation with crying out for Congress to get involved here what I would like to see and I think what a normal US administration would be doing is setting privacy standards at home but then also working together say the US in Europe and some other countries to try to set the baseline we know Russia. And China aren't GonNa the play ball there but I mean we gotta get ahead or at least try to catch up to where the technologies are going And be able to set reasonable expectations. For what what privacy people can have and I think random people buying your face and then using it to map out. Everywhere you've been is not the expectation the most people don't no not at all and it certainly dovetails with the conversation we had last week. The trump administration's efforts in the Obama Administration's efforts to demand the companies. Like apple provide them a back door to all of our texts or chats. Anything thing that's supposed to be end to end encrypted I mean like I. I can't think of any moment in history where privacy has eroded faster. Yeah no and this facial recognition stuff. I mean if you travel you'll notice notice most countries you go into now. Just take a photo of you. And they're they're getting data do it. It's not just security and And so I think this should be you know one of the dominant issues in our public policy and foreign policy discussions and it doesn't come up that much. I think warn you know has been on on this a little bit with her big tech approach but I do think when you look out five ten years at the dominant issues. That are gonNA decide how we live this. This is in the top five for sure right after like a burning planet up there. So here's another interesting issue. A little more on intelligence elgin so once a year the intelligence community is supposed to testify for Congress open setting about all the scary threats we face in the world. It's called the worldwide threat assessment hearing Usually features like the director of National Intelligence the. CIA CHIEF NSA FBI. All the acronyms we were in office. I remember that the Intel people hated hated it. They hated it. Because you have to talk about sensitive intelligence in an unclassified setting you have to try to give definitive answers to questions where we might not have a a definitive response drive with mine for sure. A lot of intelligence lives and that kind of gray area what we kind of think we know but last year these hearings got even worse because the Intelligence Elgin community now work to president trump and who he believes that reality is whatever says yes so when the director of national intelligence said Iran was so complying with the Iran deal despite our departure her from it trump freaked out when they talked about Isis reconstituting or North Korea building more nuclear weapons. It contradicted his campaign rhetoric. So I took them on twitter you. He called them passive in naive and said quote perhaps intelligence should go back to school. ooh about that burnt dragged him into the Oval Office for a scolding. Later Said said that they had all been misquoted in public televised hearings so this year the intelligence community is lobbying to have no public hearing as part of these threat assessment hearings and I just wanted to pause with you on how unbelievably fucked up. That is their job is to speak truth to power to get these policymakers Z.. Makers facts with which today can use to make decisions and like once a year. They share some of that information with the American people with Congress. Yeah trump's ego is so fragile that he is convinced them to silence themselves in the face of his twitter feed. I mean it's like it's just another way that like he. He's just massively distorting not just our government but like reality. Yeah I mean. He doesn't want them to say what they know. Because because if they testified in open session you learn the North Korea's continuing to advance nuclear program. You learned that Iran is now advancing its nuclear program. You'd learned that climate change in just a national security threat. You've learned that allies don't trust US anymore and so he is dealing with reality by trying to suppress it so that he can continue to tell all the American people particularly in an election year. What is black and white and you know he lies about that and it shouldn't be lost on us that this is happening in an election year? He doesn't want facts vaccine out an election year. I think I don't really care much that the I see the intelligence community doesn't love this hearing. It's their job to testify to Congress and move. The reality is as you. If you're an American listen to this you know. Pay Eighty billion dollars a year for this intelligence community. We're paying for it We deserve to know what they think. Think about things and I remember hearing being somewhat useful in setting kind of new baselines Russia's becoming more adversary or sods hanging on the things that weren't great for for us the truth and people know them and again it gets back to the notion that Congress appropriates his money and taxpayers spend it and trump. Doesn't I think that the intelligence community Campbell anybody but him. But that's just not how the system works here How can congress perform its role of of deciding what money to spend on the intelligence community deciding what deprioritize if they can't even hear from these people an open setting? It's just one more marker in how they're trying to distort and you know frankly permanently really change the US government so that it's serving trump's political interests and not any broader national interest. That new baselines point I think is a really smart and important important one because a Lotta Times like the intelligence community will pour their brains into a problem and then produce something like an anti national intelligence estimate on a subject he'll be like Iran is no longer trying to create a nuclear weapon and sometimes it takes like an action forcing event like a hearing or some other like testimony testimony to force them to update that. And you're right like absent. This hearing we probably wouldn't have updated the American people on tough issues for Obama Obama. Yeah no you're right and they forced us to recognize shifting reality When these guys go out and establish a new baseline they're going to be less good? Would it like predicting exactly what's going to happen. The line of questioning. That is usually a waste of time. Is Leah tell us what is going to happen in x Middle Eastern country right but they can tell tell you you know what to expect in terms of Iranian behavior going forward. You know probably that. There's more response coming for the Somali attacker. They can tell you that. North Korea has not made a decision to give nuclear weapons. They've made a decision to continue to pursue them. So I think just getting these key trends out of these intelligence. Intelligence leaders is a useful thing to do once a year so that the members of Congress were sitting there but also people who are interested in this. Have a sense of of what way things are going doing. Geopolitically economically in terms of security. Yeah so one thing. I'd love to hear them all. Explain at. This is what the Hell's going on in Russia and I'm excited to hear your conversation with Masha later. So last week Russia's prime minister our old buddy Dmitry Medvedev along with the rest of Putin's cabinet. Just suddenly resigns this resignation and mass came shortly after Putin delivered the Russian version of the state of the Union and proposed a bunch of constitutional changes that extensively give more power to parliament. I'm at the Duma. The prime minister and a mostly powerless political entity called the State Council on paper. That sounds democratic. It's not really about Putin finding creative waist cling to power. He can't run for president again once his term up as in twenty twenty four so I think most experts believe he's trying to avoid a nasty succession fight while creating new ways as to be the facto leader of Russia in perpetuity. The changes will be put to a popular vote but that shouldn't be too hard for Putin. Since he's consolidated total control. The country in a bad polling day for him is like sixty percent Putin reportedly had hoped to unite Russia and Belarus in becomes some kind of like KGB. Sivy mega the leader yet. But it didn't happen. said he's GonNa lead from this. Newly empowered seek counsel position with vetted as his deputy. He transitioned from President to Prime Minister back to President. And now it's like what twenty twelve. Yeah it was pretty rocky so I think he probably wanted to avoid a dustup like that but I don't know man like we've talked about a post Putin world or post Putin Russia for a long time and it sounds like To hold your breath. Yeah well if you're Putin you've killed your opponents you know you're wildly corrupt. And so you. I don't think you can give a power. You know if you if you are no longer the person in power some you're vulnerable yet has the things you've done and so clearly. There's zero zero motivation from Putin about what is in Russia's best interest. This is whatever he is up to is about allowing himself to stay in power after twenty twenty for when he's term limited out as president and there's kind of three ways you can do that he can just scrap term limits and stay in power or he can make a kind of clever adjustment to the system awesome so that if he has to become prime minister again will now. The prime minister is much more powerful. And some this idea of giving power to the parliament could be about making the prime minister. The preeminent welcome to figure in the system not the president and Putin becomes Prime Minister this State Council thing that he's talked about to presumably. He'll be the chair of the State Council and we'll have the power. How are the comes from that so to me? The only thing that this does tell you is that Putin is GonNa try to stay in power after twenty twenty four and look you know. Yes he'll do well in the polls I think his popularity often. It sounds smart to say. Putin is so popular in Russia. Like I think we don't really know the. Because he controls the media completely they harass detain and even kill oppositionists. There's not independent really civil society or journalists speak of except for a few courageous holdouts. So we actually don't really know how to measure Putin's real popularity in that country what we do know how to measure his is intention to stay in the seat of power and by all evidences. Looks that way yeah. I was listening to an expert on regimes like Russia's talking on the worldly podcasts on vox about how these session fights turned out to be existential for a Lotta regimes because like when you have a cult of personality leader like Putin it very often crumbles also once he is gone so it does seem like giving himself a lot of runway to set up the session fight finalize it and do it from a point of maximum leverage is pretty good idea. Yeah you know what's interesting about Putin. Is that unlike some other dictators in the past. There's no real ideology behind find it so this is not like Soviet Union Communist You know it's just about Putin I mean I don't think anyone could really described like an an ism then and so that makes it even harder to have a succession right. Because in the in the Soviet Union lists the idea was they're all committed to the Russian revolution and Communism With Putin it's just about him so imagine being the guy after him right. You know. It's not gonNA work. You know as soon as Putin has gone. This whole thing is very likely to be a AH under tremendous stress or claps. It'd be challenged in some way so You know if you're Medvedev. I The you want the chair after Putin Gordon Yeah And it does just tell you how much this current model Putin is. Built is is really just about himself and not about any broader objective even if it was kind of fall subject act. You don't want to be the guy who has to Fall Logan Roy. You know exactly I think Kendall you can figure that out. Speaking of what are Russian friends are up to So Ben Trump is in Davos Switzerland right now for the World Economic Forum talking about this guy railed against elites. He's so fucking craving leaving of their attention that Obama ever went to because there's always going to Davos he's just he's measured himself against these people his whole life. Why does he even even carries the United States? Yeah I mean I guess he wants to hang out with like other world leaders. Don't have enough to do. CEO's and billionaires who complain about all the problems in the world without whatever looking inward to realize that they're a part of that problem yes economic inequality but The Bernie and me digress is so like you noted nothing meaningful is gonNA come out of this stupid event. But you know jared. Ivanka might line up their next free yacht vacation and make some contacts crump business interests get some Saudi money money but this caught my eye so a Swiss newspaper reported that two Russian diplomats I did air quotes had been detained. And maybe had posed as plumbers at the world come for them to the reporting a little murky. It's hard to know like what was right and wrong and I check but it sounds like the Russians got caught trying to spy on Said said useless Davos elites by posing as plumbers was just felt very Watergate e and I kinda familiarity of it. Oh look I just think that there are two angles here that are comically comically. Tragic to me one is that we keep coming back to the lack of security right like the trump's like jumping on the phone. We had people in cafes and in the middle of Ukraine like talking about Russia policy. Jared can get a security a wild story that popped over the weekend about a guy at the NFC you might have been compromised by Russian hookers saw and look. I don't know if that's true. What is clearly true is that this has been a bonanza A for foreign intelligence services so I'm sure in the past it's not even worth trying to penetrate the US delegation Davos. Because they're all going to you know be very scrupulous abuse now. It's got to be like totally fair game. Then the other thing you know billing and what I said earlier is like trump just never travels which by the way I'm fine find with Kasich can only lead to bad things but like you know we should look up? The number of days at like a Obama traveled abroad each year and previous presence and then trump trump. He only goes to like the summits that you absolutely have to. So at the beginning you look at the calendar like okay. The G twenty have to g seven have to go to NATO in unlike beyond that he doesn't just visit countries right and so for him to go to Davos is is really extraordinary. And what is he doing doing there and again the Democrats running this guy. Basically constructed a whole populist narrative there was against like Davos elites but clearly. That's who he wants to rub elbows with you know. And meanwhile those people you write are both on the one hand not exactly fans of trump but also the inequality the climate crisis. Yes the people in that room really wanted to solve those problems. They could do something about it instead of just having panel discussions. Were you know they. They talk about all the great things that they are doing. Yeah it's getting. Yeah Yeah tell me about your corporate responsibility program exactly Goldman or whatever shit okay. Let's talk about some people who are the opposite of Davos elites who are actually doing really good work so this is a great story in politico that you will like if you don't like war So politico profiled several new organizations antiwar organizations that we're able to quickly mobilise after the. US Killed Qasem Soleimani the Iranian general with a drone strike and groups wherever to deliver a message to the media about the need free three escalation antiwar and that stands in stark contrast to how antiwar voices were marginalized in largely drowned out in run up to the Iraq war. One group that they talk about is called the Quincy Institute which is funded in part by George Soros and Charles Coke which is interesting. Bipartisan alignment of Boogeyman. Another group that has grown in size and influence. It's called Win Without War. And then their traditional stalwarts like move on dot org or move on now. Then you know you did an amazing job in the White House of organizing a lot lot outside. Groups to fight for passage of the Iran deal and Republicans and reporters pretended that was somehow like abnormal sickle. Care about your positions support. Like how important do you think it is to have progressive groups like the Quincy Institute having this outside game and pushing for progressive policies. I think there's a couple points here. They're really worth emphasizing. I should mention national security action yesterday. Action Yeah we My my group and the first thing is that in a crisis I think it matters sanders. I think that there was a lot of attention and scrutiny and social media and the media to trump's claims after he killed Qassem so money I think the the general knows level was concerned about where this is going. It forced trump to kind of frame what he was doing around like well. I'm trying to stop a the war you know and that I think it mattered. I think it had an impact. You can never draw direct causation as we said if one of those Iranian missiles killed an American could be a different story now but I do think that the ease with which George W Bush took us to war. That couldn't happen quite the same way now and you saw Congress mobilizing mobilizing to try to de-fund potential war. So there was clearly more pressure against this kind of lurch towards another war in that Iran instance and I think a a lot of that can be attributed to these groups that are organized and know how to deliver messages and know how to reach Congress and have grassroots support. That will put pressure on Congress. I I also think there's a broader question though and look part of this is also. Let's be frank. The American people are sick of this after twenty Taylor. I'm it's great. These religions are wonderful and deserve all the credit but part of this dynamic is also just at the public has moved right the bigger challenge for the Quincy Institute sued. I know the people who found that a lot of them were involved in that Iran deal effort so there was this constellation of groups and some of those people went out and raised the money to form on this Quincy Institute which is dedicated to ending the forever wars and having more restraint in the use of US military force and the uphill. Climb that those guys have is that that the think tank community in Washington is incredibly interventionist. You know and not just on the right but some of the centre-left groups and they've taken money from Gulf countries and they've generally advocated for military interventions or sustaining military interventions. And they're trying to kind of reorient the entire ecosystem the system of of think tanks and this may seem like a dumb de issue. It's not because it's also the media. Because when the media calls experts say call the experts from these think tanks and then the stories reflect the analysis of generally hawkish think-tanks generally I think right of center think-tanks who also reflect the opinion opinion of certain foreign governments The Saudis and the bodies particularly come to mind and Israel. And so you have this kind of situation where think tanks Shape media coverage shape the kind of cable television debate shape opinion pages. And that's a big deal and that is why here we are twenty years after the Iraq war and some of the most prominent Iraq war supporters are still key opinion makers on these things. That's a much bigger mounted the quincy and some of these other groups are trying to climb climb and I really hope that they succeed. But they're not gonNA be able to do it alone. No one organization can do this. It's GonNa take you know world owes and people out there who are starting to scrutinize is more the claims that show up in new stories and op ED pages and think tank reports and one license. It was interesting. The Iran case is you saw with with social media for all the shit that twitter and other platforms. Right we get. It did allow for people to be skeptical of official claims immediately really in very very identifiable way. When Judy Miller in the New York Times publishing stories about Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction there was no similar platform to try to hold accountable immediately? And say wait a second and so actually do think the democratization of information you know our podcast and that they were changing the world here. What we're trying to save world podcast? You've got social media. You've got other forms of media for people to say wait This looks like bullshit that there was some imminent threat. And that that that's new and I think healthy and frankly is a reaction to a feeling that the American media has not done a good enough job scrutinizing certain aspects American foreign policy. Yeah no that's right. I mean like Judy Miller reports in the New York Times. The Iraqis are importing. Aluminum tubes. Could only have been used for their nuclear weapon in twenty twenty. You could have some non proliferation nerd at university and be like actually those. Don't really make sense for that. That make more sense Ca Tusha style rocket which is actually I think in fact what they were for people can re tweet that person and suddenly that information is everywhere and yeah yeah in a fake news context. That's not great but you're right. I mean it's helpful to see but in in the Iraq war I mean you had like Knight Ridder which I don't know does sort of exist. Has Anyone like reported like Warren Strobel at night. Rear Net. mazing work questioning the surgeons of the Bush administration's but to your point about these think tanks. There's a super super hawkish one called. FDD just garbage neo-con the foundation for the Defense of Democracies that it's taking money from some of the most undemocratic regimes in the rain right and they were able to take one of their fellows in install that person at the NFC salary in pay his salary. Right that's how much a cursive this is. Yeah and you know like the Iraq war example is a good one because if you were watching that in your you just read the time story you know it'd be like the administration claimed this some experts say this some other experts say that but there's no real scrutiny. There's no real skepticism. And today if you had none of this other media or these organizations you would have had the coverage that we saw on the Times which frankly was a pretty large it was like trump claims imminent threat. Mike pompeo Oh set hundreds of lives are at stake. Some Democrats said they hadn't seen sufficient evidence but some Republicans said that the Democrats are terrorists. That was reading. Louie Gohmert orders. Freedom fries meet your own conclusion now you yeah. You're right like arms control walk. Whatever thirty two tweet thread about like why this is bullshit and you? You know you've got people mobilizing with win war. You'VE GOT NASCAR action getting people to sign letters it you know about why this shouldn't be done. You Got People Helping Roe. CONN and Bernie Sanders advocate for legislation. You've got a movement that is more organized than frankly has more ways to get their voice out. Yeah and you also have some new Highly contrarian news outlets like like the intercept which brings me to some disturbing news out of Brazil about Glenn Greenwald who helped found the intercept. And he's best known for his work. I with Edward Snowden exposing all the NSA stuff during the Obama Administration You and I were you know adversarial at best with Glenn for a long time I but I think both of us have gone to like really appreciate the kind of reporting. He does on intelligence questions in so what people need to know. Is that like he was accused of committing cybercrimes by federal federal authorities in Brazil. He's done all this work exposing corruption. Brazil including top aides to President Bolsonaro. who were conspiring to keep former President Lula da Silva in jail and prevent him running for office? Glenn's husband is also a congressman Who Bolsonaro hates impulse narrows go after them? Both so clearly like is a fascist or fascist training. He openly longs for the glorious period. Brazil's military dictatorship. And like no matter what you think about Glen Glenn Skepticism about say Russian interference in two thousand sixteen or like issues. Where he's contrarian efforts like this in Brazil to silence the press will take Brazil down the the path to dictatorship almost undoubtedly? Well look yeah I mean 'cause I'll put it this way like I. I've got all kinds of problems with Glenn Greenwald He's got a pretty massive blind spot. It comes to Russia but the whole point about a free press. Is You have to want it for everybody right so I don't you know I'm not you know sitting here carrying briefer for for Glenn 'cause I love watching Tucker Carlson appearances About Putin but I just you know if he also does some very good work as you say exposing corruption but either way like you start silencing independent journalists in using every lever the chapter intimidate them if there's not a free press for everybody there's not a free press by definition. You're you're tilting in one direction and what we've seen in all these countries that are at various stages of authoritarianism. Is this focus on the media. And either you try to get control the media by buying directly or through your kind of cronies the major media platforms. And that's how you get like Fox News here but that's how what Putin did he essentially took over over Media for his friendly cronies bought all the TV stations. And then you try to intimidate independent voices so that more and more over time the information is reaching people is the kind of state version of information. I think we're farther down that road here. That people like to recognize when you look at what forty percent of this country consumes assumes And how non facts it is but yeah you look at a Bolsonaro. And here's a guy an authoritarian leader who wants to gain more and more more control. Thankfully Brazil's not as far down the spectrum yet so there's some people pushing back but these individual cases become kind of markers along the way. Hey if I in. The past dictators or Authoritarians like Boston are who've been able to plow through those markers usually end up making progress in making making headway in trying to consolidate some control the media. So it's worth fighting battles against that in any case and it's worth it even if you don't always agree with the person Zain who's being singled out. Yeah I don't love Some of the newer news outlets on the left that seem to live to attack people Who they think occupy the space between Elizabeth Warren and sanders than almost anyone else? Yeah Yeah Look my and my thing about that. Is that the problem we have in the media in general is the absence of of faxes basis. That's more problems than that. But that's the main problem right and and actually this is directly related to that because essentially if anybody has uncomfortable facts and you want to do away with that like you're creating a factory media that is pushing the narrative of whoever's in power and you know I think we have to welcome I don't mind like fervently right wing outlets as long as they're trying to anger arguments in some kind of facts and I apply the same standards to the left and you know yeah thus far. They can be painful rainfall in the expression their opinion but as long as. We're dealing in facts here. I think you you need to welcome. All of us agreed. The pats as world is brought to you by Lifelock more than twenty six million customers summer have their DNA information in databases maintained by the four leading DNA testing companies. Where is this going? DNA testing companies maybe be as vulnerable to data breaches any other company in DNA. 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That's that's lifelock dot com slash crooked world for twenty five percent off all right then I have some news that is going to make you so excited. axios reported that trump is going to decide in the next few days whether to put forward jared's long-awaited Middle East peace plan before the March second Israeli election. So as we've discussed a bunch of times now Israel is about to go through their third general election and I think less less than a year and literally owned the only reason the White House would put this plan. Forward is to give bb Netanyahu another political local favor in advance of the vote because bb is dealing with many many many corruption charges that provide a huge threat to his rule. Now I just saw a tweet on the way in As about start talking about this. That Bennigan's BB's primary opponent says he will annex the Jordan Valley in coordination with the international international community. If he wins the march second elections so clearly guns is trying to get ahead of whatever. Jared and trump might say None of that. It is good for those who want a Middle East peace process but probably still a pretty solid net benefit to get rid of a corrupt hack like BBN. Yeah Yeah I think that the thing this piece by I thought the peace plan was rolled out at that kind of gift or conference in the Gulf member that Oh yeah. That was the peace plan but I guess not literally jeered Ford each business but first of all trump it is remarkably not held accountable to the goals he sets for himself. Because people think he's you know just such an idiot but Most politicians would be and he literally promised that jared was going to solve this problem I'M GONNA go out on a limb and suggest that that's not gonNA happen but we should all remember here that by the the goals that trump himself offset North Korea denuclearizing a better deal with Iran and China changing. It's structural and economic advantage is is making Middle East peace like he's failing spectacularly respect like country legally incompetent and ineffective measured against his own goals. And like this is the argument we have to be making here. Not just that he's erratic and he tweets scary stuff but did literally just match up. What he said was going to happen with what has happened and everywhere and it's utter failure and there is i? I hate to break it you. There is a zero point zero percent chance there's going to be Middle East peace as long as Donald. Donald trump is president. Believe you and yet we all pretend like there's some plan or there might be some process. This is all a bunch of bullshit the plan is to dictate the terms of surrender to the Palestinians funds to help Bibi. Netanyahu get through the next election right and we'd all be better off to signal that reality Again I I do think that This is just about. BB's politics largely. And I don't frankly know how much it helps anymore. Like I think these really people get it and those people who care that trump and be be. Your best friends are already voting for B.. Yeah so I think this diminishing returns each election knows the Golan Heights. Before the first one it was settlements for the second one. Now it'll would be some plan. It's a bunch of bullshit you know and and it's not making anything better and it's making things worse. I had one journal. Say to me like well. Isn't it true that trump was able to move the embassy to Jerusalem in the world. Didn't end showed that that wasn't a problem like well. That's only if you think that we don't have a goal state solution in which I think most of us think we should can have so. The Palestinians stopped talking to the American negotiators. No I mean there've been consequences to this stuff and you're right to flag that like many gods is not going to be some of of on this peace process either though but the reality is none of. It's going to change in. The United States stops kind of serving as the worst enabler of the worst actions of these government. Yeah Yeah Speaking of Organizations Built to be the worst enablers worst governments. I WanNa talk about facebook for second so Ben. This is an awkward one. FACEBOOK had to apologize after the platform accidentally mistranslated. Xi Jinping's name. Did you see this. No this wasn't a small Air They didn't mispronounce. She is ex- I or something like that. It occurred when Aung San Succi the civilian leader Burma posted about Xi Jinping on her facebook page. It was translated as quote Mr Shithole some people wondering if this was intentional facebook said it was a technical error. I guess she's she's name. Sounds familiar towards that. Roughly translates as feces whole buttocks and Burmese. This happened right around cheese to visit to Burma. Ah Air appears to have been censored in China. So don't worry known there was offended. But you know Ben. The good news for facebook. Is that the Chinese party. Leadership is known for just brushing offs. Slides go never conspiratorial or sensitive right. It sounds like Siri when you say something and like something totally different comes up for something and it just happened Jinping Jinping like there's almost no one worth calling Putin like feces bucknell whereas like imagine how much they're trying to get to the root of what happened. Ah Yes you know. There's like five hundred people. And some you know Communist Intelligence Center in Beijing trying to identify this single human who's responsible the warring through sucker Berg's personal perfect like A place to start the absurdity of Dystopia that you have angst itchy the the fallen leader. Who's now an apologist resnick cleansing Through facebook the platform. That is fueling authoritarianism around the world. World Hurling this insulted Jinping. WHO's the leader of the most authoritarian government world? There's some novel that could begin with. Yeah this this anecdote Slipping through the facebook sensors. Yeah I don't think the Chinese slowly frankly. FACEBOOK is is not in China Even facebook good thought well China was actually blocking facebook Facebook just gave up trying to even be in that market. But something tells me that they. You won't be getting any time soon. Know Media Okay of a few final lighter ones may be so. We've done a lot of Ron News lately so we did last this week but one story the comment I was CNN. GotTa Tans on audio if trump fundraiser where he basically told the attendees more about the Soul Monte strike then he told Congress yeah the he said Soul money was quote saying bad things about our country before the strike and then quote. How much of this shit do we have to listen to? How much are we going to who listens to gone? Was All the talk of threats. He also described in detail how the military watched the strike from a drone or satellite. Feed Then I can't say I'm remotely really surprised that he's boasting about killing people two group of donors or that You Know He. He's refusing to talk to Congress. I do recall well all the times we were told that we disclose to detail about the bin Laden. And how that was going to armor National Security Blah Blah Blah. But there you go well it's terrifying that I mean essentially saying Bang we assassinated an official of a foreign government because he said bad things about us there are a lot of people about things about it matters. What the standard it is that you use to assassinate a foreign official even if that person is a terrible person? Who's done terrible things and and we're now in really murky murky place where we have no idea why we assassinated this guy and I certainly believe what trump says behind closed doors yeah more than I believe the scripted remarks? He reads for the benefit of the New York. Times story that he's seeking dictate so That's alarming I also think there's a real trend. We senior that that people should be more pissed off off about. which is it that people don't think that they're obligated to tell us or Congress anything? But you know John Bolton can go and give closed-door speeches and not fucking testifying Congress Donald Trump can tell the truth to bunch of donors and then just lied. Our faces uses like people. Can Ho husband information. You know for their their books That they don't want to give to the United States Congress like this. This is so disrespectful of the notion that there's any democratic accountability that you basically your trump is monitoring this anecdote. He's using using to raise money right. So all these people are just monetize ing your Jim. Mattis God knows what he's been saying on his corporate. Speaking tour closed doors that he won't say in front of television cameras. So you get these people monetize ing information that is sensitive to our national security because they want to sell a book speaking fear raise some money and then they they blow off the United States Congress. Subpoena John Bolton's a book proposal. That says I'm really bad about our democracy that the congress comes in after like a book publisher or some like Hedge Fund donors of trauma the Waste Management Professionals Conference in Vegas. Yeah yeah the. The the annual Life Insurance Conference in Reno Oh where some dudes are going there to pull slots and then they have to be shuffled into a ballroom with closed doors to your gym. Mattis tell them leadership or something you know. This is a go out of control. Bragging donors about the soul money assassination Getting people acquitted for war crimes pardoning their work. I was reading last night that George Wallace now. That guys on this year by the way because reading last night that George Wallace in sixty eight or leading up to the seventy two election was tried to campaign campaign with one of the leaders of the my Lai massacre so there is a a wonderful history in this category of the worst politicians on the planet Campaigning with war criminals. But I digress. Yeah Yeah Yeah two more quick thing. So Ben I thought that John Bolton's exit from the scene. Meant that terrible. Mustaches is would no longer be screwing up our foreign policy but I think in the trump era. You just have to be more imaginative about all the things that go wrong. So The New York Times had this piece over the weekend where they reported that Harry Harris junior the US ambassador to South Korea has a mustache that reminds many Koreans of the period from one thousand nine hundred nineteen forty five. I have the Japanese ruled South Korea. The Japanese governors general rocked this similarly badge facial hair so he's also Japanese American which undoubtedly league like the real root of animosity right. It's probably just racist but people are holding signs of the mustache events in in criticizing him and so the history see for people that we need to know. That is less funny is that there's all this unresolved from an era. When I think like eight million Koreans were forced to fight for or Japan or work in factories for their military during World War? Two many Korean women were forced Were raped forces prostitution as horrific nick painful history has come back up Recently because of some legal rulings about compensation for some of the victims and their families normally the United States would help mediate this this kind of tension because obviously we want a united front but yeah Korea and Japan on a whole host of issues especially North Korea but instead trump and our ambassador is there are more focused on demanding money from the Koreans to cover the cost of us. Troops there So this obviously goes deeper than mustache in. You know. I'll be honest. I'm a stubborn asshole. Call someone told me to like cut my hair do something That I felt was unfair. I'd probably be about it but it is just an amazing example of yet another problem that somehow we're we're making worse Yeah I mean I I think part of it may be Animus for Japanese heritage which obviously is is problematic. I think part of it is also like we have treated South Korea like shit you know we. We done this whole negotiation with North Korea essentially without them even though they're scared state trump routinely bashes. Che's them for not paying us for these troops that are there when we benefited hugely from having these bases in Northeast Asia and just generally doesn't seem to give a shit about South Korea and the the dangerous is not just North Korea. South Korea basically falls into the orbit of China. You know and it would be a big problem for the United States if you kind of total break up of our alliances. This is between Japan and South Korea and us that the South Korea orienting towards China North Korea's nuclear weapon like. It's easy to see what the Chinese endgame is right like. North Korea has a nuclear weapon South Korea's becoming more and more in China's orbit and at some point China figures out how this all ends and it ends with like a Korea that that is very much looking to them and not us And look in the mustache. I mean just shave it off autrement maybe or maybe bushier. What about a goatee? Yeah Yeah Chuck Todd at through Goatee on there like I mean. They're the different. The handlebars do axelrod. Did charity thing. Yeah you you know you could have like a a fundraiser shave the Moustache and TV. On Morning Joe. Republicans on Morning. Joe If you did that's about as good as it gets for Axa was getting actually axelrod. Shaved did raise a lot of money. went to that event raised a lot of money for epilepsy research. Yes you did a good thing. ALL RIGHT MR ambassador. We solve your problem okay. Last topic is about Space Force Bennys don't know if you saw but the newly created space force team tweeted photos of their uniforms in like the name tape. It says you know like Air Force Marine or whatever the hell it says and they just got roasted on twitter because uniform was camouflage yeah I think they were just trying to show off like the Little Embraer's new force like the nameplate but it was sewn onto a camel uniform. Which of course is probably less useful for hiding in space? Yeah yeah they. All the folks space for pointed out that they're not flying space missions yet And it was cheaper to use existing uniforms for now. Now I have to say I think this whole controversy is totally unfair. There are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe. Yeah some astronomers estimate that there are a two hundred billion planets in the Milky Way alone. Are you telling me that one of those is not Komo colored it has to be. That's fair point. Maybe the military know something that we don't. Yeah maybe the the the aliens are on like Colored Planet. Maybe I took an edible halfway through. Maybe I'll take an edible later and just think about that for a while I I. There's there's definitely life out there. I mean I'm sure about that. Do you ever watch the universe on Netflix. or any of these shows they used to have they took it down. I Love Cosmos as. Yeah if I was any good math I would've got into Strana me but I mean India I I will say that. It is kind of remarkable that we have space force. Because it's another things where where people take it seriously because you know seem serious but like this is just like trump clearly thinks spaces cool and he could say created the space force and it sounds like a video game you know we could have dealt with space through the existing military force. It could be in the air force. Yeah it could be so based on this. Donald Trump on one was clearly in a meeting once where he's like. Oh cool they have space for and we could call it space force and I could say I created the space force and the whole machinery the US government has set to work building this thing complete with the patches on the uniforms just so down trump can go out and talk about how he's a space so we can campaign on it. Yeah look I just want more. Deep Deep Space Hubble telescope phone those are cool the thing that drifts by by Pluto and sends back pictures. Oh Yeah but we could say this fucking planet I mean. Let's the space and try to find the next place to live like this. This plan is like literally on fire and instead of spending money to deal with that. And we're there's zeroing out the money that we spend van on global they and by the way I saw I saw a woman from the Green Climate Fund which is under Peres setup to help help poor countries develop cleaner. And you know we gave them a bunch of Obama's tuition and sure enough that was cut off so we I mean how many hundreds of billions of dollars we're going to spend on the space for us and we're not spending anything to mitigate global global climate crisis. Yeah like I really respect and appreciate the work that Elon Musk. has done to. SETUP SPACEX in like all the talk about colonizing ising Mars. But I think what people don't read passed on. The headline is that it would be a miserable existence. Yeah I wouldn't want to be on Mars like I mean. Maybe they can find someplace we can all go go after the whole world turns into Australia But more likely than not they'll find like Do you watch one speaking vegetables like the the black. You know tile that they find on the moon know anybody with me on this any Kubrick Garcia is sure enough. The engineers are The so like the you know this was the sign that intelligent life is out there but we didn't know exactly what it was I don't WanNa look on your roper. Jupiter moons one of them's supposed let's be quite nice. I think Titan Titan Forget. It's a big one. Yeah I think one of the moons the Saturn is supposed to be quite lovely. Oh so we can always go their scores. Well time to watch more netflix. Okay okay Now that we're done with stone talk for world does We will have bins interview with Masha Gessen from the New Yorker but all the madness is happening in Russia after the break support support for this podcast and the following message come from comedy central. If there's one thing the world needs now it's more podcasts. In the daily show is proud to present the daily show podcast broadcasting university a five episode me series. Parodying all your favorite podcast including ours ours. There's very cute kids doing our voices and and then there's time start. Jumping on. This bad boy was very well done. Yeah daily show. People are funny search for the daily show. podcast universe on Apple podcasts to listen to all five podcast featuring trevor the correspondents and special guests. They are all great and they're all very short which we know is important. Ford you people get so now. I'm joined by Masha. Gessen she's a staff writer for the New Yorker She's a journalist analyst and author whose books include the future is history how totalitarianism reclaimed Russia. Which won the National Book Award for nonfiction in two thousand seventeen every should check it out? It's really an amazing series of stories about Russians And how their lives changed under Putin and what happened in Russia and her next book. is surviving autocracy which is coming out this summer So everybody should definitely check that out. So we've Good Timing Masha to to be getting you on the front front end of Your upcoming books or thanks very much for joining US thank you for having so you know. You've long documented how Vladimir Putin has essentially taken over over the Russian government and made it an extension of his own ambitions. We saw last week. you know pretty surprising series of announcement from President Putin both about initiation of some constitutional reforms in Russia and then the announcement from Dmitry Medvedev that he would be resigning along with the entire cabinet to give President Putin the space to implement these reforms. I mean stepping back. What what do you think this was all about? What do you think Putin is up to here? Well in some ways Putin very easy to analyze because everything he does is about consolidating power and it was certainly about that You know although it I mean I wrote a column for The New Yorker last week about how difficult it is to use normal political language to describe what Putin does right because the moment I say consolidate power or other people have said Coup anything like that. That's a That for example there's power to consolidate that that it hasn't all been already totally consolidated which is inaccurate it or it suggests when we talk about a coup or the firing of a government in the in the new government. It's exists that maybe there's a core of some kind of legitimate intimate power or distributed power or something but none of that is true right so in a sense what he does does and what he's done for years now is redundant but I think that the redundancy and there's another common misinterpretation okay. So if he's doing things that are redundant rendent than his paranoid which I think is true in his paranoid of his scared than he must be weak. And that's a huge mistake because actually chilly in a dictators are better off parent they fall and they become confident. Impaired is served them well it it keeps them in power so presuming that he's just going to use these changes to stay in power in one form or another as prime minister as head of a State Council president whatever it is beyond twenty twenty four one of the interesting things and looking at this system. Is You know pass totalitarian systems. There's usually some ISM that it's attached to you know the Soviet Union when you have communism And so you have a party whose logic extends from Stalin through Khruschev and through a succession in China Xi Jinping is all powerful. But he's you know representative of the Communist Party whereas in Russia. This seems to just be about Putin. It's hard identify. Identify a bigger ideological project other than his own power. I mean how should we understand what Putin is in. Canada handed survive without Putin. I mean how much is Russia's government really inseparable from his personality would there or even be a successor who could carry this forward without Putin You Know How should we view this compared to other to Taliban systems that we've seen and You know. I don't actually think that Putin has actually to Taliban system. I think that it's a mafia state. But it's a Mafia state that was built on the ruins of the Taliban society over its talent and system rather and so it has recreated totalitarian society. This is what brush knows how to do. This is with Russian society knows how to do so once put them started really cracking down. Totalitarian habits came back what I mean by that you know where the distinction is that is that the lived experience of being a Russian citizen or resident for the last seven years has been the lived experience of inhabiting Taliban society. But that happens in the absence of a totalitarian system. Right the system is best described as a Mafia state and one of the distinctions between a Mafia state. the Mafia state flows very naturally from the Soviet state. A Soviet estate was in some ways. Serve the precursor to the mafia state. It's not an aberration but But one distinction is that the the Soviet state yes proclaimed to to have an ideological project and the Mafia state doesn't states state occasionally instrumentalise ideology like for example one Putin occupied Crimea. Suddenly there was a lot of ideological rhetoric for a brief period of time. And then it set aside when it's not necessary and you know in a way the distinction between that and the Soviet state begins to blur because the Soviet state of course did that as well but just not not to the same extent and one thing that I want to also also say about that is that when we think about these very personalized systems. I mean can Putin Azam's survive past Putin probably ably nodded his highly. Personalized can officed survive. Yes probably in some other form and if we think about the history of Russia over the last hundred years or so you know. The difference. Difference between the Soviet Union under business and the Soviet Union under Stalin was probably greater than the difference between Russia under Putin and Russia underpinned right so there's a kind of continuum and and they tend to be highly personalized eras in in Russian history. Yeah well what does this mean. If you're in the Russian say opposition you know from Alexei Navalny on down or if you're I want to be an activist of some sort in civil society environment that has been closing if you're an independent journalists still trying to report the truth you know we we. Americans don't often get to see you know what the lived experiences for an opposition in Russia. How do you think they respond to what is happening? What what what what? Tactics six are available to people who want to consider themselves the political opposition In Russia given the the current trajectory of things. Well that's a great question and Cam one even consider oneself to be in that position Because again you know. That's the problem with political language when we say a word like opposition. It suggests that there is access to access to electoral institutions right. That's how we usually use the word. Opposition there's access to public sphere and there is in in fact public sphere to seek access to none of that is true about Russia. So it's really difficult to talk about any kind of meaningful collective action action. People mostly have to act individually and I think that that's the most difficult and painful thing to understand about in what what options is are available to people not a lot of options precisely because it is extremely difficult to act with others and even with the protests. Yes there have been a number of fairly large and you know especially if you consider the risks for people coming out to protest and they're all risking arrest every every single one of them just because they're there and time in Russian jail considering the risks the protests have been very large especially last summer in Moscow. But the way these protests come to be is that someone can post on Youtube or facebook. Let's protest in this place at this time and people come and none of the organizing work. None of what the infuriating grassroots work that where people negotiate. How they're going to do the symbol? Slogans are going to be in what time they're going to do it and what the location is going to be in whether they're going to accept police protection or not in that sort of thing. None of that. What happens right so there's no politics there's action there's individual action but there's no politics Yeah it's just personal choice well and so then look the American perspective You know I'm curious what you think of someone. Who's obviously you know thought about Russia your whole life and increasingly about American politics over the last three three years since the election? You Know Putin has acquired this image in the United States. Either you know if you're an opponent of trump you know some people see him as kind of you know a the puppet master brilliant hand behind the curtain others see you know if you're a supporter of trump someone who is kind of a like minded fellow traveler. You know make Russia great again make America great again a kind of right wing Reaction to the changes in the last several decades. When you when you evaluate valuate the American portrayal of Putin? What do you think is accurate? And what do you think Americans misunderstand about. who were dealing with here? I think the thing that bothers there's me the most is the desire to sort of suddenly ascribed Putin master plan and incredible expertise in naughtily electing the US president but then directing his actions. And I think that's too easy explanation. I think it's largely inaccurate accurate and it gets us out of the need to talk about. What got trump elected by? Americans trump is the American creation. I'm not denying that there was Russian interference. I'm just saying that even for Russian interference to have worked trump has to be an American Right it and so when we talk about about trump Pusan's puppets not only. Do we give put way too much credit and therefore a way too much perceived power but we also avoid having important conversations about our politics. Yeah so it's easier to just describe all this Putin to recognize that we're the kind of country could could produce Donald Trump. Well isn't that vein. You know we. We're obviously talking as the impeachment. Trial is Beginning and you know it is very odd to see a trial with no witnesses and seems designed to get to an exoneration as fast as possible. One of the things I really enjoy in your New Yorker riding riding is you have the ability to look at America you know from the outside in an income describe what is happening in America in a way that as you just pointed out that sometimes Americans are uncomfortable. Doing I mean if you were evaluating this this impeachment process at this point as an External Observer. You know you You know as a foreign correspondent if you will how do you describe it because it does strike me. We're falling into that trap where we don't really have the right language to describe what is happening. So we use your language like you know there's a negotiation there's partisanship or whatever but how would you describe what we're seeing happening right now in the Senate well. I was obviously just thinking about that. Because that's part of my job is to think about and I think what struck me about it. Today is actually the same thing that struck me about the hearings in the House wishes that there's no way to interpret them outside inside of a partisan framework right. So if I turn on my TV and I am a virtually. MSNBC YOU watch her. Then I one thing I see several. They're intelligent people making a valiant argument. Don't for for saving the republic by by conducting a proper trial as required by the constitution. And I see Republicans stonewalling. Not because because obviously they want to just get an exoneration and they are not interested in learning the truth and conducting national trout. And if I'm habitually Fox Watcher Wat- I see is several very articulate men making the argument that the Democrats have always wanted to remove trump from the moment he was elected and that their evil plan has produced an exorbitant amount of paperwork that has now been delivered to the Senate which bydesign is unfair. This paperwork in the in the process of they has preceded is unfair and biased against trump illegitimately elected president. Come they just want to remove by any means necessary. And I'm I'm not saying that these realities are equally valid. Obviously I think they're not but they're not intersecting rather non overlapping Overlapping there's no ven diagram that you can drop in which the shadings meat and so Considering that they're non overlap laughing thing and the they're in a kind of coup librium. One is not going to influence the other. And unfortunately an equilibrium favors. There's non change right. We're now stuck with the status quo of two non overlapping realities in which in which the one that I happen to inhabit it is. I'm afraid doomed to lose. Yeah when an how do we think about some of the imagine that you deal with this this to some extent in your upcoming book. But how do we deal with. What are the forces that helped create this equilibrium? And I'm thinking particularly about kind of corruption right so if you look at Putin's consolidation of power near the kind of acquisition directly or through cronies of television stations in media and business disinterest that then in turn supports or funds his politics is central to it in the US. You know we hear the word corruption thrown around a lot. But I. I don't think we've fully step back and considered you know how central it is to you. Know the the reality of the trump presidency that you know you have a huge media apparatus you have business interests at fund trump new have trump potentially enriching himself. And the way that we've seen Putin other leaders do through their office. How how do you evaluate the role of of corruption in the sustainment of that particular reality that exists on Fox walks in that particular brand politics it has resulted in trump? No I would actually take more broadly. I think that there are some terrible ways that we have of thinking about politics in practicing politics and one of them is the normalization of the marriage of politics and money. uh-huh access to the Democratic primary debates was measured How much money the candidates were able to raise and we think that's normal and then along comes somebody like trump who basically says well come on? We know the system is rotten. We know that money buys you. Power and power gets more money money. And he's not wrong. I mean he is fundamentally right about that Jim. He wants to be acting in incredibly bad faith while I think that a lot of other people most people in American politics act in good faith but it is rotten and. I don't think that we can get get out of this predicament. While maintaining the rotten system. I think that you know. In in some key. Ways of not arguing the the trump was Predetermined but he's a product of the system. Yeah and then we see it. Creeping into other parts of of our society. This was a small story but given how much you've you've written and spoken about the connection between history and memory in politics was curious. What what you thought of the the strange item over the weekend about the National Archives Changing images from the women's march twenty seventeen to take out images you are critical of trump? And you know we've seen trump in the past kind of try to you. Know essentially put forward a totally alternative version of the facts of things that have happened. You know we've seen totally shifting explanations for large events like you know the recent killing of Qassem Soleimani. Wha Wha what did you make of that archives event and and how should Americans be mindful all that. It's not unusual for leaders of the Thar turned tendencies to take aim it at history and memory as a part of their political project. You know I actually. I think that's a pretty huge story. Because this is a federal agency charged with preserving history and records and they go on alter that that record and archive. I served defending their actions. They said against not part of the exhibit. It was actually just a display advertising it which I actually makes it worse because because it would be more widely seen than the actual exhibit as promotional material usually as is but some and then to their credit they reversed course an admitted the mistake but I think that there was something really telling in the way that they justified their actions and I think the way their actions were motivated. which is this we're nonpolitical and nonpartisan? And there's there's an incredible amount of confusion between being nonpartisan and being non political and pretending the politics in political positions don't exist and lighting them from the public record and I think we see elsewhere in the country and And we see it. I've certainly Seen it in Russia. But I think that there there's some very well intentioned people who are suffering from the extreme anxiety of this polarized arrived in partisan society that we're living it yeah. It was cited and good-heartedly. They want to avoid the things. I didn't want to spare this anxiety for their visitors and so they just kind of pretend that doesn't exist. Yeah well they essentially can say. They're they're nonpartisan non-political when in fact fact that decisions are making are entirely political. All I would say oldest political. Yeah well you wrote a piece in two thousand sixteen. Not that I think is resident if people WANNA go back and check it out. As in the New York review of books called autocracy rules for survival and one of your rules was your institutions will not save you and I actually remember Promising to me at the very end of his term when we knew trump is is coming in. You know we're about to find out how strong our institutions are now. America did have more kind of evolved institutions in Russia did when Putin really started taking taking aim at them. But how would you examine the kind of health of American institutions and how they've held up under the very illiberal Abnormal challenge of of trump. Archives is a good example of an institution seeking to try to avert controversy in. So doing you know going along with what trump wanted. We've seen you know the Justice Department be pretty compromise particularly since Bill Barr took over. But how do you look back at that advice. You gave that institutions fusion's not save you in measure against where we are today three years later. I think I was rightfully pessimistic. I think things are pretty awful. And I think the story of impeachment is actually a it's a clear illustration of that. I would start at the beginning. which is we have the whistle blower lower report? It and the whistle report was a lot of Americans was the first time that they really learned the actual guidelines. There's an actual process for for a whistle blower in that situation to go through and I would ask the question. Why did it take nearly three years? For Somebody Asia come forward like none of the of what was exposed. In the whistleblower report was particularly surprising. Trump was acting exactly the way that we have seen him act out in public in fact he sincerely still doesn't think he did anything wrong. Because this is an expression of his presidency at its most normal. Yeah so And a lot of woods was in the whistleblower was not only known but actually even reported by the media but as a kind of minor story right. We knew the aid was held up. We knew that Rudy. Giuliani had traveled to Ukraine to press as for the investigation into one hundred nine and yet it actually takes somebody putting pen to paper to say. This is not normal and that event of somebody eighty institutionally saying this is not normal as it. Turns out is abnormal during this presidency institutions have not been raising the alarm. And now you know now that we you have seen how the actual impeachment process is playing out. I don't even think I need to comment on that right. But we're basically seeing the our institutions are not strong enough to stand up to the force of the presidency. Yeah Yeah especially. When it's backed by a major political party and one last question I wanted to ask you? You know we we spend spend a Lotta time on this podcast looking at this nationalist authoritarian trend around the world You know you look at parts of Europe like Hungary and Turkey you look at Obviously Russia UC more assertive Gijon paying UC Narendra Modi in India. And obviously trump. Here unfortunate go on the full scenario and others You also see this. You know opposition movement in Hong Kong. You see pockets of of more progressive Reaction to terrorism in Europe. You saw the midterms here in the US. How do you evaluate where we are? You know around the world with this trend and where some of the issues you've been looking at in Russia for the last two decades you know. We see very similar playbook being applied in in these different parts of the world. Do you see us entering or have we entered kind of a new phase of global politics that are defined more by nationals with our attorneys them. you know is that one trend that we're seeing globally or do you feel like there's still a pendulum swing back and in a bunch of different places and we could see more natural shift from the right to the left in parts of the West and other places around the world. I think we're living through dark times. You know really really awful dark times I do see rays of hope Some places I mean there are some countries that actually have really visionary leadership that has come. There's emerged in the last couple of years like the Jesse in Darden in New Zealand. Legs on the Kaputa in In Slovakia Right I seven people. We don't spend a lot of time talking about who will happen to be young women with imaginative politics right. So Am I in my wildest wildest dreams I imagine that we suddenly awaken as a world and and bring in a new wave of leaders like that. They're out there. They're not impossible in some countries that she might really least expect to do that. have done that but So I think there is a kind of opportunity in in in this time of crisis but I'm not terribly optimistic. Yeah we we define those footholds in and build out from them anything else you WANNA say about your upcoming book since people have the opportunity. I assumed to preorder that in the in the coming days. Well so the book is obviously the title refers to my twenty sixteen sale on surviving. Talk crecy and I kind of trade to take stock on a of where our institutions are and where we are in how much we have changed as a society in a thousand days of trumpism feels like a lot. Well look we'll look out for the book and always appreciate your insights and people should Should follow your writing in the New Yorker and other places well. Masha thanks so much for joining us. Here thank you great Take care thanks to Masha. Gessen for joining the show. Then I learned a lot. We become a lot today. ECLECTIC yeah listen I know. Sometimes we get a little too like trump is bad. We know that too but he's he's really bad on a lot of stuff. Yeah so help us. You know if there's things you want to hear covered let us know and we'll do our best. Yeah yeah now. That was lots of different regions Restu explorer. Lots of different. Ah Done space now. Soon crossed that space. And we've done Feces whole box checked all right. Great Week everybody policy. The world is a product could media the senior producer. Is Michael Martinez our assistant producer Jordan. Waller it's mixed and edited by Chris. Basil Kyle segler sound engineer. Thanks to our digital team. Elijah cone norm Kony in my locations and filming. Share these interviews. Some video each week

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Pokmon: Detective Pikachu with Dan Hernandez & Benji Samit

Blank Check with Griffin & David

2:12:38 hr | 1 year ago

Pokmon: Detective Pikachu with Dan Hernandez & Benji Samit

"And. Donal what say to? On that show. Listen kid. I know this much if your dad was here, he would hug you so hard your bones would podcast. Okay. Great. There you go. First question, going heart. Did you guys write that line? No. Wow. Here's my goal for this episode. Okay. The line the pops like what? No, no, no, I want. I want to along with everything else. Have this episode be an exploration of the process of writing a movie this big? Okay. Okay. For that as much as we can talk about it without jeopardizing, their maybe some things. You'll give this. But we're happy to do that Ben is cutting out can Bennis pointing he has a bell here. Oh, this is a new thing that he's introducing if I know what it is. We're not gonna we're not gonna bring your cut out. Now, let's let's make it clear. There's a reason why Ben might forget that he hasn't introduced the cutout bell before. Benji, Dan, I'll introduce you properly and second have you noticed you're just meeting producer bent for the first time. This is our first time, but it's been good. So far, he doesn't usually have this hat on detective hat. Classic Sherlock Holmes. Dear soccer. He actually is wearing your stark. I'm going to genuinely does have thought it out looking at me. He doesn't remember who. I am. So here's the thing producer, Ben. Aka I detective PICO. Ben of this more doesn't remember anything. Why did I agree to this second? Even though I'm not involved. I should've realized it would be annoying. But he's on the case. He's going to try to guess what happens in the movie because he hasn't seen it. Yeah. Episode. He might guess what he thinks happens in the move great great cleanly up that bit. Should we disabuse him of the notion or should we should we just like he was this wrong? We see what the movie that. He creates is if it's better, maybe. This is like there are no bad ideas. Bad ideas. That's good because my ideas are always great Heller recently. You told shave my head that was a recent idea by him. He thinks. Shave you'd be pretty lethal. I think you would be pretty lethal that would be like or right? It'd be like have like an agent forty seven five I was gonna say like Vince Vaughn in cellblock ninety nine I was thinking Vic Mackey on the shield. Got a bit of a Mackey, although Mackie's short, right or is chick tall. I think he's kind of stocky show that was sort of part of his appeal was like, you know, you don't think this because he was the commission. He was like little schlub being angry when he was cast. Jessica Alba was taller than him in the fantastic for sure. Right, which is a fundamental issue. Fair enough fair enough. This is a blank check with Griffin. David griffin. David, I'm David it's a podcast about usually about photography's directors who have massive successful. They're on their current giving series appoint checks make whatever Cousy pass project. They want sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they bounce Pika Pika, but you have been on the trail. Of a movie for the last two years. Sure. Pretty much announced increasing excitement. Yes. And went through and found all of your tweets about this move a lot. This has been one of your interest rate movies, ever, Pokemon. You'll Pokemon so serious film critic and book. So we put it on the books that we would do a special episode for this. And then lo and behold a couple of months ago, I make a startling connection. Two guys. I know sure are in fact to the writers on Pokemon detective Pika chew Pok Mon Cohen detective Pika job. Yeah. So who we got in the studio today? Ten Hernandez Benji Sam writers polka mind detective Pika chew. We're gonna find out how the polka sausages made. People eat Pokemon. You know, that's one of those things that is a little bit glossed over right in the in the world here. I prefer to think that everyone is a vegetarian fruit berries. Right. There's various natural products. I'd be like a lot of rice. It would be sort of like a green, heavy rain. The it's records. That's game. Right. There's a huge. Yeah. I never really figured out. The guy was like, I'll cook you the app records, and you and I'm like I can't be bothered, but doesn't gonna find eighty Africa. But when you go deep into like we had to do. I mean, we knew him out. Okay. But we should be able to this gonna into the mythology and give you like the big fucked. Is there a leather? They were like, here's your Pokot X, boys. Get luxury game. Was professor oak in an executive producer? Yes. All right. But do you have those things I don't know if they're like phone calls or meetings where you're like, okay. Next item. Here. What do they eat or the sort of like is it okay to do this? Is it not okay to do this? Like, are you constantly having to sort of run by thing? Right. Yeah. How far the treat is after go. There's definitely like, okay. We're gonna float this idea off of, you know, the people in Japan at the poem on. You know, we had to write some emails explaining what we wanted to do emails waiting to see if we got the permission to do it. And. Yeah, sometimes we would. And sometimes we would not. Sorry. Where are you gonna say? It was it was an interesting to their great credit. They really gave a shit. Who cares? Who cares? What you want? They were. They were like, no we have opinions not only about story elements, but right away that you know, species of Pok Mon would behave. It wasn't just like. Yeah. Whatever you want. It would be like species individual, no squirrel doesn't do that. Wow. What hasn't squirrel? Do. Squirrels strategists. Interesting. Why couldn't have like a squirrel as a plot point being that was just screw strategize. Look, this is come straight from the. Is it like baby poke him on wouldn't like their little some, you know, there were with that. Yeah. It was for the bulbous Oracene. Like, it's like Bubba sores can be in a herd. That's cool. It was more like in the process of kind of like Benji really wanna talk poke him. Let's get into we're going to go. Response. One of the things that is really cool about what we got to do is to make a master list. That was like here are the Pokemon that we pie in the sky way. Right. Would like to wanna use that list? Was there one hundred on that list, right? From that list. It got whittled down to hover many got whittled down to. And so with each of those we would have to kind of explore the the nuance of what we were allowed to weren't allowed to do which evolutions we were allowed to use. And they were very accommodating, generally. But like they had opinions and it wasn't. It was very interesting way of writing because occasionally I made the joke like it's not really joke because it's true. I was writing with one hand and like looking at the polka decks with the other if only there were a bio luminescent mushroom. Oh is like I mean, how many other six hundred or eight hundred and now with the new generation it's going to be. Wow. Have you guys kept up with it in every iterating like what's your relationship with Pok Mon throughout the years? I mean, you like when you got the job writing this to do come back in and go like, okay, I'm four hundred behind. I gotta fill in this gap. I would say there was a little bit of gap field. I would need gap filling. I'm not good on the later games refer share. And we knew you know, some of the the bigger Pok Mon from the labour just like the fan favorites and things like that. But yeah, we did a deep dive on everything, you know, we went through every single Pok Mon all their evolutions their interactions their powers there. You know? Yeah. It was it was pretty intense. Well, I mean, I guess let's zoom out because I mean, the first thing that David said to me when the movie ended when the credit started after just squealing at at the GameBoy. Love the GameBoy graphics. Right. He turned to me went. This is crazy that this is what movies. Movies are insane. Yeah. Movies are insane room. And and he meant in every possible sense. But that's the really weird thing about this movie. Which is a thoroughly weird movie. It isn't a positive, but like so many times watching it, and you guys very generously helped us get into see it early before. Because we knew you're only going to be in for a limited window of time. We went to the premier we met at shoe not bragging redacted bit. Guys. We're US pitchy. Who's had a very to pock esque pose with with the giant peaking? Very all eyes on which I which I'm pretty sure was just an inflatable peak achieved that I'm sure they always had that they had then been like, let's can we get a giant hat and put on. Inflation. No that inflatable Pika true. Had just been backstage a kiss me. Kate. It's been there for like the last twenty productions of theatre it was it was because it was the middle of Times Square was the yellow carpet which was and then the the premier was at the twenty five where like one floor this theater with twenty five screens was just different screen. They had a Goan in several screens. Yeah. It was intense. That was the theater that when I used to live in New York, I would go to just as a as a fast. There was like a weird symmetry having it at that theatre. And also be reminded how ridiculously designed that theater is where it is like a labyrinth in nightmare. Krit escalating, it goes to the secret to scrape known remembers, and they were sort trans separate the two things that people who are trying to go to floors one through five one three four five versus floor to just attack the peak. It's like the exit was weird. This is all really exciting. It was just like having the walk through Times Square twice. It was it was it was it was a weird for weird movie. Right. Yes. So this is the point. This is the point you guys aren't hired to adapt like poke Amman red and blue right right there. There's a clear thing that just like, okay, Pokemon, go. There's this like revival. Everyone's reminded of how popular this thing is it's enough for twenty years now, it's at the generational level. You can make like a four quadrant movie around it. And then announcement is it's detective Pika show. They've like they've won the rights for a live action Pokemon movie and to -tective Pika chew to which almost everyone said what because that was a game that at this point had not been released anywhere other than Japan. We know because we were starting to ride it. They're like, here's the translation of the video games group. And I took three years or two years of Japanese in college. It was it was completely useless. You're in this weird position where it's like, you're a dappling a game that there isn't the same kind of emotional affinity for as the property as a whole, but that game needs to function as an entry way to the possibility of any live action, Pokemon movie that can exist under this thing. And it's a fucking insane concept. Which is what if one? Starting for level St.. You all know, Pokemon. Are you all know who peachy race you? All right. Like you keep going down down down them. And it's like so Pika choose detective, and he can talk. It would be like starting with Dr. Mario. Yes. Breaking breaking three like sort of sacrosanct rules oppo Kvant to start. What you're saying? Like Bumblebee is the first soft reboot of like the Michael bay transformers. This feels like it would be the fourth free boot. Right. And it's like you're starting there and everything is like Pokemon is a is a nuanced concept. It's a messy concept with a lot of tendrils. And this movie starts with the given that you know, all of it which like we're like yet. This is what these movies should be now. Because it's like this thing's been around for twenty years. Why are you going to see a Pokemon movies? You don't know what Pokemon Amman is we're not going to name other live action video game out of -tations. That might have had a recent negatively received trailer. No idea. What movie I could we talk? You're talking about. What if they rebrand him as detective what if they're like, we got it? We got it. It's fine. Here's the detective its own them, you're satisfied. Now. Right. Took the note. You don't like the design. He's constantly holding a magnifying glass design, his better. Now, he's is looking no. But like that that feels like what David I were saying was like how these IP movies, I feel like especially video game or like adaptations a kid cartoons used to be done through like the mid two thousand which was like, well, you know, someone acquires the property and then all the executives go like this dorky shit. This is weird. This is weird. This is weird have them be transplanted to like, Oakland, California. Right. And then, you know, it's just them like trying to save the school or something earlier badging department Bill, right, right? Like that that sort of concept of like, you have to strip as much of the weird stuff away from that you you put him in like, a co-op, you know. And this movie starts with all the weird shit as a given. But also you guys were saying about lake all the rules of of what polka can't do. There's table setting in the first ten minutes of the movie of just like this is the ethical debate around poke Amman. Yeah, sure, which I always feel has been like the weird underbelly. That's like never discussed in the property. And in this movie starts with like, this is a city established on the idea that poke Amman battling human relationships with Pokemon or maybe a little skewed. Right. Yeah. Like rhyme city is supposed to be like. Oh, no. We don't fight. We're all partners here. Right. Anyone can work man or poke him on can't speak somehow. They can hold jobs, but he do like an interview with the poker Mon you're going to hire the like work at a coffee shop. I know I get so at what point do you guys come in on this project? We came in really early after it was when they were still trying to crack the story, and what it was going to be. So we were pretty foundational to all of that. And I think. To go off your point of like why detective he could you? As opposed to anything else in the Pokemon universe. I think you know, from the top down when everyone made the decision to make a live action Pokemon movie for the first time in over twenty years. They wanted a reason for to exist like they wanted. They wanted it to be different they billion of the animated films. That's right. And they didn't want to just tell like the red blue story again just respected him. No. It's a it's a great story. It's been told. Yes, collide. And you know, everyone knows ashen if you know, they wanted like, the the why now of the live action trend, so they thought that detective Pika chew would be a great way to do that, you know, having rhyme city this city where people in Pok Mon are living, in harmony like seemed like a really cool live action thing to see. Right. And so that's sort of why why we did this. Yeah. Right. I also feel. I feel like post like in game people have been like debating, the concept of fan service allot, and I've heard many people I think smartly make the point. That's like is it really fanciers anymore. If it's a thing where everyone's a fan now so part of the monoculture that like the phantom that you're like Hadrian to is like audience member one point two billion dollars worth of box office. And in the same way like someone on our read it said that Pokemon is statistically the most successful media franchise of all time it is more than ours. Combine like the video games everything combined. Everything it is the biggest media franchise and fans, I don't even really know what that means. The point. Yeah. Just slightly agree. You know, when we sat down to write it. And and you're right. Some of the things that you mentioned, you know, outta foundational level when you're sitting down to right? Yeah. What you know is going to be a huge studio moving and you're sitting there going. Okay. This isn't the obvious way into the story diagonal story that you know, it's not like the people are calling for detective fica chew. Right. So I think you have to then go a step back and say, okay. If I were. Just a viewer. What would I want from this story and as a fan of Pokemon? What are the kinds of things I would wanna see and to me to me. One of the best moments in the movie is when they first arrive into the city agree more, and you just it is actually overwhelming how many poke him honor in that. But it's like businessmen going about their day like tapping Griffin Bessette though to just just every single one. There are so many in that sequence. But it's just like, you know, like a barista going to work and a guy doing construction and that to me in some small way we wanted to replicate the feeling of walking into most icy Cantina. Okay. I was gonna say I genuinely thing that is the best film. Just struck the table here. No. I thought that was gonna be my big money. Comparison force you guys did it consciously explaining how this all works. It's just kind of like, yeah. It's sort of chaos. There's a lot going on in the background kinda get the app that the best way to me. I'm always the most intrigued when air like here's the world. Yeah. This this. You know, like, yeah. This guy's going going to work with the chairman or tails on fire. I don't know about the safety regulations. It's fine. It's a given. It's a give you have to as giving. I feel like a lot of times. I will hear people when they're promoting their movie say like, we want us to be the most is Lee sane, and they'll see it don't blink too much paprika. Like, you're putting too much on it. You're like you're calling your shot in advance. And the confidence of the Moseley scene is just like so overwhelming us, and it's so behavioral, and it's it's a given. And it just like, I know their answers for all of this. And they're not telling me any of it in the confidence. Seeps I like in most I feel so that they seem a little pissed off that they walk in there kind of these. I guess you can't bring your droids. You know, there's just a sequence of people turning knows the podcast, but just like turning the list. Whatever it doesn't matter. I don't care. I've got my life to live rate. I've got my weird alien right jazz. Listen to Jisr. Dan, right. But it is just sort of like behavioral stuff there. And you guys last night. Was you seeing the final movie for the first time you've seen it with the effects on finish the thing? David I kept saying to the entire time. Was this thing is so fucking beautiful. Looking screw it looks like Michael man movie. Like, first of all, we're like a neon been recording. Michael man episode. So we've been watching the early ones it's got that same like neon the war thing where it's like a lot of exterior night that's just lip by like the street lamps and the signs too. It's wetter. It's very, you know, in the screenplay if you were to read the screenplay varies a direct reference to my favorite movies, the third man great movie, which is my absolute apex of to me. Just the number one movie. I love that you wrote them. So the. It's when detective Pichu appears from the shadows. And we wanted to capture that moment when Harry lime has an Orson Welles in order around belly. So maybe that's why three eight three great men. Three great guys. Great guys. Orson Welles sort of like slightly husky mode. Not yet at raise. Right. But you know, so it's nor lax he's at peak achier. So sometimes you'll read a review that's like these writers didn't care, right? Sure. Just didn't give a shit about anything put noth ought into whatever. And you're sitting there going like you like the movie, you don't like the move, whatever. Like, the one thing that is definitely not true from I would say ninety nine point nine percent of writers is that we just didn't give a fuck and we were like a page. Whatever task that check. I gotta go to like. Right. You just turned into Thursday. I dunno pitchy has a hat or something is this. Okay. Seems fine. Whatever who cares that. That's the kind of thing where I'm like. No, actually, like when they're on the train, and there's a video. I was like, well, I really liked the scene in total Benji. We're talking about health care, low Rico aware, you know, you sort of introduced to recall, and it's kind of a weird concept, but they very economically got little intravenous. Right. Where you're like is this on the level? But at the same time, it's establishing very Orton sort of pipe, and yeah narrative stuff, and and so all of those decisions like at a foundational level at the kind of go back to the beginning of of what we're talking about. Which is like these are all decisions and reference points that have to be kind of made pretty early on. And then of course executed by the director and everyone got him. But those were all things that we really did put a considerable amount of thought into. I mean, don't you think veggie yet for sure and? Yeah, I mean, the director rob Letterman, and you know, the DP and the like they made it look so good shot on thirty five shot on film. And I think that's a big part of why it feels like the old Michelman movies. And like it just it feels real. Hey, stop lying to yourself. I'm so it's up lying to myself. You know, one time to go to the post office. Really, okay. When you think that you aren't I I don't have time for all that traffic and parking. What can I do? I'm just gonna keep letting them know. Okay. No. No, no. Hey, David, tell the truth. Tell the truth. Okay. Tell detroit. Okay. Okay. This is why you need stamps dot com. 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I have some meal it to them type in check. You get a four week trial plus free postage and initial scale by. And the other thing the couple things that stood out to me. I mean, one is like digital cinematography is a very long way, but certain like shadows. And certain like aspects of light it still has a hard ten capturing in this movie. You have the like fucking third man thing. We're like when they're inside the room is like lit by like, the the light peering through the slats of the window blinds, which might be like, purple or white. There's the scene I think we're we're Justice Smith and Kathryn Newton meet for the first time and their lit by the flashing their. Yeah, right there like in the lobby of building. But their faces keep on changing from red to blue. Yeah. Yeah. It's very blade runner. But then the crazy thing is anytime, there's a Polk Amman in the scene. It looks more tactile, and you're like, right when you're putting digital effects into digital photography a lot of times, it brings out the artificial every and when you're. Putting the filters of like film equality onto the creations. They feel very like in the world. They also felt to me like watching it like this feels like they're using CGI to make them look like slightly more expressive nineties like animatronic like it felt very tattered pile. And they looked like like early nineties like Henson company sort of like like, it remind me a lot of where the wild things are where on that. It was like big physical suits and only the faces were CGI and this presumably was all CGI, but the furs frigging nightmare to make this scene. Yeah. Seattle. Yes. Last night. Who's awesome? Yeah. And I said, you know, because it's the first time we'd met in person with Twitter larusso. What was the most difficult sequence to edit? And he just looked at me like all of every every scene was the most difficult. Onset at all. We shoot. London. We were not onset because we were working a day on TV show at the time. Okay. So we were because you also worked on the Texas. We worked on on critically beloved season two of the to Amazon. What are you doing? What are you doing Amazon come on? What are you doing creek a bunch of Mike bumps where I know critical. Love would be a hundred percent on around tomatoes if they had enough. I don't wanna say who maybe the network we're on did not submit it to enough Critic's review. I did appreciate the reviewers that took the time to go and root me to like they really like fought it out. Yeah. But yes, a thing. I know about you guys is that you certainly care a lot. Yes. And I feel like there are a lot of people in this industry who self identify as like dorks or big fans. I mean, you meet them. They're like, you watch this once when you were like twelve you don't really care, and you guys are like incredibly genuine in your enthusiasm and your like love for these things. Yes, you're. Huge nerd 'cause we were like deeming we were both at all three of us are at wonder kind and Anaheim, and we were like whenever I get time to look, my toys and stuff I had to go pick up my commissions from artists alley right? I was like I looked press, and you guys really trying to get more. Like is there any time? We're all going to be free to be able to like shop together. Everyone else. Like are group's. I'm sure you guys have experienced two when you do these things are just like why would you go to the floor like everyone else doing press with is just like this is not my world. It looks like shit shot and really serve your going. As what am I going to not? Comecon people were like, oh, what parties are you going to? That's every over there. It's going to sign X men. One eighty. You as Commissioner, I do have a grew the wander. Genuinely every time. I hover around because he's always have command. I hover around his booth and I'm to starstruck to actually step into my advice. I extremely I stand there for five minutes. We'd probably ready to be nice my vices to just do it. When you may now because I'm the artist Jerry Robinson who created the joker Comecon, maybe six or seven years ago, and a lot of people actually weren't aware of who he was he just had a little booth that artist's alley and I said to my friends eventually this is like a legend we have to get mission by this guy, and he passed away about a year later, and it was just every time. I look at this Batman that drew for me. I'm like, I am so happy that I have this to commemorate this really important person. And that's so yes, the geek dome is like right earnestly come by. And like, honestly, you know, true. I mean, I sometimes one of my frustrations. About this industry is I do think that sometimes there is a little bit of. I don't know. If disdain is the right word. It's probably the right word for people that are like to passionate about a certain thing. So sure. That to me, obviously, you have to be like a normal person. You can't be. You know, so socially raft that capable of. Being professional, but I've always felt like neuro get people that give us shit. Right. I think there's this weird thing of people who don't give a shit hiring other people who don't give shit because they think it's cooler or not give a shit, and I feel like the first like six years of me like hitting the pavement trying to have a career. I kept on being told your problem is you care too much. Like, I got that for like six years as like an actor in everything just like you get like to invest in the shit. You like want these things too much you care too much about the thing. And and you you see at the very often these jobs go to the people who are just like bring some fucking Pokemon movie. And you're like, why did you hire the guy who hates the fact that he's being paid a million dollars to write the Pok Mon move. And if you were behind the scenes with some of the people that we've encountered sure he would feel even more. So that way you'd be like, yes, sure. You don't even like the property that you're writing like, you view it as like an albatross around your neck that you. I've got a job. Yeah. Got it. Right. Thunder cats. Cats. That's a good example where there is definitely I'm sure doesn't people in Hollywood are like, I know thunder cats backwards and forwards I grew up with it. I have a take on it that can like week in this era. Right. This is what we're talking about within serve fan services. That's dismissive thing. Right. This is too into itself, depending, you know, like who cares about cap doing this in vendors. Ain't right. You know? And it's like new people care people have been there. Or whatever. And I think there's a difference between it's like, you know, what is fan Sirs even anymore. You know, when this stuff is the monoculture, you know, when it's not like you're catering to some sliver. But it's the difference between like these things that are like genuine story payoff that you've set up properly versus like league victory lapping. We're just like let's get like cheap pops off of growing your thing. You now I feel like anything that's properly integrated into a story whether or not satisfies the fans, then it's fucking then that storytelling a works. Right. No. And I will say to to legendary credit like vacation to us because they knew you were nerd, right? And who are the biggest nerves that we know? Who knew they didn't want hire assholes. I'm sure right. And they you know, we had worked with the producers on a movie in the past that that didn't go. Yeah. And you know, a year later they called us do. You guys are the biggest nerds, we know. And so, you know, here's the nervous properties. We have for you. So you guys you have many many TV credits. This is your first produced feature film get. Yes, any and you got you got some pretty credits on this movie because I know credit attrition can be a whole thing. Oh, it can get in story and screenplay by which is kinda like the double Wham. Yeah. It was it was definitely. It was a nerve wracking process. And I don't know if people necessarily know about this process. Hey as much as you want to I hope it's not too inside vase. I guess I guess this is an ever were a place. And I want you guys also to define this people of assets. And we promised to talk about never did the difference between the anchor sand and the written out, and oh, yeah. People don't. Is we're writing right, Dan, Hernandez and Benji Samit right right with an amber sand and the the word and is people that came in before. Right. Separate sort of separate writings. Lucienne side right side. Right. Like you Griffin. I have been accused of carrying way too, much many times fun thing to hear that doesn't make you want to jump off of it. When you into specially when discussing an artistic creative enterprise care about you go to these meetings with people were like, oh my God. I'm still so coked up from last night. Any what your problem is you care too, much moved to L A? All right. I want it to be good. That's why on on literally day one that we started working on this movie. We came in and said the number to poke him on this movie is going to be side. Right. Of course. Because that is I mean, Dan, especially related I relate to side are. I mean, I don't know. If you guys have ever gone into something awful for him. But like they used to hit emoji. Right. Here's a big sort of heal. Right. Yes. So it just to me see those are the kind of decisions that we had that we personally made early on that. I think are I'm the most proud of some of those things because we sort of pitched the potential of this character. And I think that you'll see from side of side from the advertising from the trailers and the response confidence the break-up he's the bring character. But we sort of said at that initial meeting we think he can be the break character. Obviously peak is gonna be beloved. But so the. The. Yes. So that was a long way of saying that credit arbitration can be very stressful. As much as we right? Let's talk about it. So basically in any big not necessarily any big movie yet in many, many big movies. I would say most. Yeah. The the credits that you see on the screen don't necessarily do not represent the amount of writers who worked on this project, especially this usually as tens of writers friends of writer so you'll see but because of writers guild of America rules on the screenplay credit. There can be up to three entities evangi count as one shirt shirt. So he can have three entities for that. And to entities for the story. Right. Right. And there's there's some different Benji has like a masterful. Command of this sort of the new art. Can you say the different twin story and screenplay or what is the difference between stories scream sort of created elements versus dialogue and scenes. Yeah. I mean screenplay is I think the actual things that they base it off of our dialogue contributes the screenplay. The unique like seen structure within the scene. It's some of the characterization seem shirt stuff. Like that. The the story is really. Yeah. Your your big picture beat for be. Yeah. The characters things like using which stuff from the game to dapper shirt, the actual movie. That's the other weird thing with story Kratz on something. That's based off of something. It's like in in a nightmare. Alternate reality where you guys got pushed off this project early. And most of your stuff was rewritten. There's an argument like, well, they were the guys who pushed for side, doc. So they kind of get a story by credit aside. Ach has a large role happens. And so. You have these these these two elements story and screenplay and in general. You will then you'll so you'll have let's you'll have the first writer the first person that's gonna put pen to paper. And and that, you know, and then they say thank you screenwriter one. Great job. You're either going to go do another job. We don't like you anymore. It was that Nicole Perlman for this in case, Nicole Perlman came in at the very beginning, very beginning of the process and then. Relatively early on. She then had to go back to captain marvel. She she's one of those timing. She's great. Yeah. Right. But sort of maiden industry off of being the first crack at a screenplay, right? Feel like a very full docket jumping from one thing to another in this show lay out the foundation for she was she was really just she did the first outline she'd ensuring through the first screenplay. Sure. And so yeah, it was a little it was a little different, right? I think originally she was going to do the first play. But. So Dan, whatever it was she had to go to marvel labyrinth movie. She wasn't on that. But she's the person who might serve identify the basically out of the skeleton such as your for example, peekapoos detective on the case. So if you look at the credit, she also has store credit, right? Yes. So then, you know, you might go through if you're lucky you'll be the writer and you'll stay on the project from beginning to end. But if other things happen, or if you're busy or some of these screenwriters are so booked that they give dedicated about the time, and then they go onto another project. So then other writers to come in. And so then those writers begin to make changes, and then you know, and that can be anywhere from you know. One two three two two doesn't doesn't right depending on their stuff. They'll bring. Punch-up jokes, or you know, story breaking rooms, which I just imagined people being like what if he said like that's gotta hurt. And they were like here's twenty thousand dollars. It is kind of like a not quite dollars of standing right behind. Fifteen, but if you looked at some of the names who pitched jokes on on these movies, I won't I won't say it, but sterling really genius people. I mean, amazing. Oswald has been very open about the fact that that was his. Fifteen or twenty years before he really kind of broke into the mainstream as documents another one who always in the room. So there's a lot of people who are absolutely like genius who are coming in and doing this. And so now all of those people have to be taken in consideration. And then, you know, if you have a director who's writing the director is also working on case. A bunch of writing for this, right and deservedly got credit. So now at the end of this whole process, you know, we wrote this movie two years ago. Over two over two years ago. Now, they're like, okay. We need to figure out who gets what credit on this movie. And that process is done through the writer writers Bill of America are right, right? So basically, you get the final shooting draft, and you sort of have to make a legal argument in a way. The studio makes recommendation of who they think's you get credit. Sure. And then you know, you can protest it. Yeah. If you don't think that it's right. Representative of what the credit should be right. And you know, if there's a protest, you don't know who triggered the protests, or you know, there's certain things that trigger automatic right, which ration- like in this case, we were we knew we were going to have an arbitration because when the director is a writer, it's an automatic arbitration. Sure. Sure. 'cause I wanna make sure that the director not in this case, sometimes director might want to just get credit for everything right? Sometimes director like will tweak a couple lines and say that they can I'm writer on in the old days. I think that this was it. Right. Right. Like in the, you know, the the studio days like. So. Yeah. So then they send you, you know, the the final script, and they also send you every draft from along the way, right, and you read through everything and. Right statement. Worse job is the the reader the WG a who has to read through like eight hundred dreamt, so they have. Well, that's exactly right. And so then it goes to a panel of three are arbiters who are other writers that have been through this process. And you know, they do their best to to place authorship on to get the most work, right? And there are certain numerical thresholds that you have to hit which is kind of to me like amorphous. And and you know, the difference between thirty three percent thirty two percent, right. You know, I made the joke occasionally like when I saw captain marvel. I was like well every stunt cat was credited by net. It was like Nova and Luna, scratchy. But probably someone who wrote twenty five percent or theoretically someone who had risen by out of that movie would have their name literally not on the moving. Right. And they're weird things where sometimes, you know, they bring in a writer to rewrite something just because they're like we need another. Pacifists? But sometimes the bring people in as like a skill shooter where they're like the villain isn't working or we just need the dialogue tightened up or the story. Last thing makes no sense. Sometimes depending on how much of an influence that one element has someone could get a disproportionate credits on the film because they're pass ended up even though it was only meant to affect the one thing. So you have all of these different factors. And then ultimately they make a determination. And that determination is what you see on the on the movie and Arqes we felt very happy. The we got the first position on the screenplay on the story because we felt like we were there at the beginning of this this end for better or worse if you. Like, the movie that's very much on us. And if you hate it that's student. You guys put a lot of the meat on those bones. I would. Yes. I I mean, I think, you know, the the process work the arbitration in in my opinion was fair and gave it to the right people. You know, I think us, and rob and Derek the credited. Did did the bulk of of the screenplay, and I think it's a few of the other writers that didn't end up getting credit. It was. Yeah. It was more targeted stuff. You said. I don't think they were expecting at it. There is a debate in the in writer circles weather, people who don't make their names for the screenplay or the story by deserve. Additional writing material red shirt. Provide animation cO WPA right jurisdiction. Yeah. There's an additional writing credits. Yeah. And I think it kind of makes sense. I it seems like it would make good sense. Because it's also like you have a lot of people. There are so many of the most successful screenwriters in Hollywood have no credits to their name. Right. And it's like within the industry, they get hired a lot because people know that they did the work on these things, but they don't have anything they can actually sort of site as a produce work where their name was on it. Right. And as you know, it's in it's like, you know, you know, on the tick all of the writers were working on everything, right? Everyone episode it we're consulting producers on every episode of into right? And, you know, different writers, get different producer credits or staff writer story editor, right? And you have your episode episode two is your episode, quote, unquote. But that doesn't imply that you guys wrote that entire episode on your own or that you didn't work on any other episodes. Correct. That's right. So I personally am in favour of additional writing material credit. I think there are some legitimate reasons why some people are against it. And you know, I I I understand those reasons, but there is something to me. That's a little itchy that someone can work. Yes. The right lines that people say in the movie and the Dunkin the recognition for it. But you know, it's it's in my opinion as it's like the best process. We have this time, it sure not to say that it's perfect and mentioned I've actually both been arbiters. Well, it was the same the second. We we won arbitrate. Killed immediately called us, and you wanna do feeling good. Yeah. It was good that we did it because it was really interesting to be on that side of things do realize once you are in the position of making determination. We took it extremely seriously. And you realize that actually it is best to have fellow writers adjudicating, this kind of thing because there are some nuances that other people who aren't in it in that way might not necessarily be like if you had a lawyer, right? Right. From the credits and everything it's also like, that's that's the line between whether or not you're potentially in line for residuals and everything right yet, which is humongous whether or not you have an ongoing financial stake in the right? So for the five of you who were hoping for an in depth exploration of the credits. Peak achieve. Expecting that. I think it's really interesting personally. I mean, I think that the process of I do think that the process of putting a movie like this together just in its DNA is so radically different from someone who is making an independent movie. Yes. Who's got their script that they're championing right or years? This is not a blacklist. This is not this is we have friends who are like putting together the financing for their movies. Trying desperately go to Europe and shakes on day. One of us writing. We were already meeting with concept artists, and he was going to get. Seeing on right, right? You know, just off like we're pitching ideas for scenes that they start the like animating, Anna Matic's for without us having dialogue for it. It's a speeding train. And it's like you guys can't stay on. And they're gonna find someone else to conduct. It's going to let you see. I mean, I think that once you have a lot of different experience. Benji I've been very fortunate in the sense that we've worked on single Cam television. We've worked on multi Cam television. We've worked on big studio movies. We've worked on smaller movies. We've had animated script. You know? We've we've been fortunate to like get to play in a lot of different realms, and you do realize that while the skills are very similar and can be you know, certain things are applicable to everything there are nuances to each of those things that are kind of you have to kinda learn the the intricacies of them in order to. I think be successful. David your credit? How often do you give something the full five star? Something a five to take the pee cheer Brooklyn. And she that's about it. Let me ask you this question as well. When when you take a rideshare app. Right. Like a whole fucking review where you're like. Oh, it started out kind of intriguing, but it fails to pay off in the last drop off. I don't know not really giving five stars. Yeah. Always know you may commercial it. I do I'm saying five means something in this day and age sure you could set that up with me beforehand. Well, why would I need to sit up with you before him? Because obviously, I'm talking about Brooklyn incredible feeling of five star hotel sheets difficult expensive because she's like that at home, you spend through your life and sheet. So it is time for. I actually just changed the sheets on my bed, and I'm back to the Brooklyn's. And it is always a good feeling David one non Brooklyn impair, you know, you. It's like when that one's on your like. I'm Brooklyn our bus right now. And I just wanna say I would love it. If you would please let me talk about the new sheets. My friends have been raving about recommending, Brooklyn dot com. Winter the best of online betting category by good, housekeeping. That sounds like that's their best picture. I think it is also Ted rave reviews from business insider -partment therapy men's health. 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I mean, certainly the setting the university from taking place in the majority of supporting cast that stuff's being passed over to you. And it's like you have to pick which elements you have to curate from here. Then there's the video game which in terms of like is not a very straight adaptation of the video game. It's like Pika you can talk. He's a detective mystery partnership with a human in rhyme city said the and it's the same thing of like people are out with their out with Pokemon. And yet it was a bit of a challenge at first because. Yes, like the entire universe of Pokemon is a given that's being handed. Yes. But because this is such a weird side were like we're now writing script where like polka movie where we can't really use polka balls. Right, right. There's no battling. There's no trainers. It is. So a lot of like this the obvious choices of things like the state the old standbys. Yes. There's no team rocket and do that. Right. I've sometimes compared to reading source movie without a lightsaber or the force. Right. It's like a movie if what if you went to Maasai Cantina, and there was like a sort of one to one mystery to deal with we just say on. On drink and left. Ever showed up. Yeah. Say this too. It's like watching was like, this is what I kind of want the Star Wars standalone films to feel like it's just a sandbox, and I just interviewed the Russa brothers about avengers. And I asked them like couldn't couldn't marvel make like a forty million dollar move. Like, isn't that possible? And they're like, obviously, theoretically, maybe, you know, but like they weren't they weren't like. Yeah, we totally want to do that. But you could make a a ground level movie in any of these. I feel like that's what TV was. Harry satisfying act reason I felt the same like there was a series of books when I was like tails for mostly Cantina. Yes. Yes. It was like what's the bartender up to, you know, Han solo is doing and I would watch them. Felt like there's like stars. For instance, does seem like there's room in the Star Wars universe to just have a Harley. Oh. Oh. One hundred percent, the Star Wars crime movie like what you know. And I don't know if you remember do you remember like before Disney bought? Star Wars George Lucas had been like, we've commissioned seventy scripts. Wire of Star Wars. I was so pumped. I was like, yes, we're the fuck is the water of that. Right. Not to say, I don't look up what it was going to be called. I do love, you know. I mean as a fan like I'm in on it. I'm gonna see it everything. But it does sometimes feel like there is room within some of these bigger franchises to kind of do something a little weird. It is incredibly weird though that this is the starting point for the live action ration-, and you go. Okay. So you're not making a red and blue movie, you're not adopting asterik. And then like the b or the c would be like you have to make a new emotional story about a Polk Amman trainer. And then you guys moved to like twenty seven like moved off the alphabet and into numbers. Well, so so what we tried to do since we couldn't do poke trainers or any of that stuff. We wanted. We thought about like, well, what is something from the Pokemon universe that we can carry over. Yeah. And and what we focused in on was the concept of evolution, which which I think is really switch is, you know, right? That's inherent to Pokemon Pokemon. So we wanted to write something about like, what does it mean to evolve like not just poke amount of all Ving, but can people evolved a relationships evolve. So that was sort of our day one starting point that we worked off of. But that also brings in the whole interesting thing about the I when I was like fucking twenty and dumb. I like stayed up until like six o'clock in the morning. It's thirty thirty end. Right. But I stayed up until like six o'clock in the morning, I friend John writing fucking poke Amman pitch are fucking insane. Edgy violent Pokemon pitch. That was I guess, I'm sure jail. I was I was arrested briefly. But it was the oh, the Polk Amman snap, and they turn against the humans and zombie movie with the Pok my because I was so. Even writing this. Great. No when I was college. I get drunk in Iraq, right? Star Trek erotica. It was like. It was not not in earnest. But like my friends would provoke me and be like come on. Okay. Because I was so fascinated by like the weird like underbelly of like the polka. My franchise never talks about her. This is kind of a weird abusive relationship between the humans and the Polk Amman sometimes the games would. But then it would always be villain who is saying things, and it would turn out he had some ulterior motive and forget about it. But this movie from the gecko like even in what you're talking about the relationship with volition. It's like this uneasy thing between the humans, and the polka mom where it's like they have this dominance, but the humans also sort of like feel like insignificant next to the poem because they have the ability to grow in this way. And in that like Verhoeven like back a train video you explain the thing of how like. History. See the hieroglyphic where it's like humans have had this weird like transactional like using their powers Italy, or or whatever it's called in Egyptian cave painting and people are trying to find the MU bones because they're like probably the key to this whole thing. It was you knew bone shit. Poke postpone pokey bones. Oh, right. Yes. Bone progenitor bones. So yeah, I mean that was something that we sort of had to make some decisions about screenwriters. And what we settled on which I think is one of the best parts of the movies idea that the Pokemon have an emotional understanding of their. Yeah. That always felt kind of true too has to be right, right or right or wrong. I do feel that I have that. With my dog. I feel that my dog has an innate understanding of of like, yes. And sometimes dogs don't obey. You is. Right. Him on won't obey its. I think it goes. Yeah. It's like that. But even further in all the Pokemon anime and games, right? Right. There is a communication between trainers and hokum on and yeah, we just wanted to explore that and take it further a little bit more explicit that there is actually while you were choosing Pokemon that they also have to choose you. Right. I think is something that that's a line. You have in that opening sort of where Justice Smith is hunting, Cuba, hunting wrong. Casing. Yeah. And you just had that line sort of tossed off line. But it kind of settles a lot of the weird questions of the whole relationship polka ball. You have them the feel like he kinda hit like some of the familiar beats of like, this is the live action GameBoy watering grass. Yeah. Right. I don't know if you guys know this. I addition for that role. He did you hear this should for the the France, right, right? Who gets a ninety percent of the roles? I addition for deserve at least, he's very he's very good actor, but the sides that I got because I showed this David because I wanted to make David probe that had gotten a tech the peak audition this sides for this audition. They tried to like rewrite the skies them. So they would know that it was a. So they changed it all to dog related nouns pooches. Yeah. In the so instead of Hokka ball. It was baseball through a baseball pooch. Actually, the truth is out. Now, I guess we actually wrote pooches. Yeah. He wrote detective. Check check this. We had a pitch, and this is all grafted on after the fact, and they were like this could very quickly become a Amman. I don't know. Never heard that. I've never done not familiar. You wrote the script about asshole kids throwing baseballs at maybe this. That was the other implication was so weird because it was like look at that dog out there in the field here. Throw a baseball. I think the thing that you guys do not touch on. That would be the hardest for any movie to touch on is the fact that in the game you can just put like hundreds of Pok Mon into a computer and never think about them. Yes. I don't know that life is like Pokemon. You know, it's fine when you have your team and you're walking around, but then you're just catching these. Yeah. Put him in the computer, whatever right here about them. Another retaliated. The ball. Logic is like tough like it's fun to watch the one ball seeing the beginning. But then I'm like, I'm glad we're spending this way from the ball because I just start to go like is it like my dream of Jeannie like we cut inside. Or they like lounging on a couch. Think there's a lot of interesting stuff to be done. Sure with that. So I sort of you know, we'll see if that gets explored in the future in some way. But that yeah. I mean, get I personally like the think that there is something luxury assured that it's like the target is it's huge, and they live happy. Maybe that's about it think it's one of those things in live action. Not as you said, it shouldn't touch it in other live action Pokemon always of which I seem now ninety seven. But there is something different. You gotta catch all those films in live action versus animation where if you have a dude walking around with a belt with like six balls on every step. He's taking your life. So there's like. Right in there. That guy has a seed lizard. What I do think that for people like my mom that shows one good thing about doing it as detective Pika choose in this context because there there is some familiarity that many people are bringing to this that they keep him in the balls and they fight. Dr people that have no context for this. What's going on? Right. We have to call the ASPCA or. I don't know like the other guys talk about the relationship between the humans, and the Pok Mon in everything it reminded me of like like his dark materials like like the weird sort of Damon. Yeah. Yet of like when you have the early seem with Ken Wantanabe who is fucking killing it, and this move one of my favorite actors, and I did not get to talk to him. At the premiere was he there was there on the red carpet or the yellow car. I was like next to him. And I was like almost like that. It was it was and then he was gone. It was like David he wears the shit. I have a door. So looking. Very straight. So in the I I was like. Oh shit the last samurai. Yeah. Yes. A haughty is. I mean, he's very good in almost anything. He does he was on stage and the king, and I you know, gotta Tony like you can do anything. But unless the helix so thoroughly embarrasses, Tom Cruise on screen is a charismatic performance. I love Tom Cruise. Let you talk and samurai is his strongest performing. But like that seen or can watch obeys like doing a play for people in the Los Angeles. Yes. For the ninja. Exactly. And he's like you're like, oh my God. This guy is like like face melting Lee charismatic, can I can I you defend defend, Tom. Hammering on the floor is a moment in that same sequence. Yes. Where at the end of it. And I think it's beautifully shot. I love the way to look part is that at home of your shop. And there's a scene at the end of the ninja attack where Ken Watanabe and Tom Cruise are standing back to back. Oh, yeah. At the end, and they're just like in the in the in the midst of like battle fearing, right? You know, and and they kinda look at each other. And they understand understand each other at that is some good face accurate from Tom Cruise that is. He's a great face. I want to rewatch the movie anyway, it's been it's been to come back for that one. Please. Let me come back for that one because I studied series. Yeah. For this week. Yes. I'll come back for this week. I just like in that scene. The dynamic of like, here's this conversation happening between two humans, and then everyone all you cut out like a shot. And he's a clean demurring rush. Nationally is like he's like, I don't know like a German shepherd or something might have like an animal that you know, is sort of like almost a little tough guy because are other worldly there is that thing of just like, you know, with dogs. We're like do do they get like I want to believe my dog like an eye on the same level? They don't have the same sort of facial expressive nece to know that they totally get what's going on and the Pokemon on this. You're like you can tell which Pokemon get it which ones don't you can tell which ones are keyed in and which ones aren't which ones are kind of like wild, which one's more sophisticated. This is another thing. I loved was just like anytime, you have these sort of scenes of the city. I mean, especially that that the first scene where he gets the train. But like I feel like movies like this. They get so drunk with the potential like we can do anything that it just becomes like fucking noise. And watching this there's like a weird amount of restraint and how the Pok or animated where some of them are just like sitting on a bench. Yeah. There's. When he checks into or where is it when he adds apartments apartment, and there's the one against the glass early moving, and it's animating these things like they could be practical. They're not over animating them because they can. And so you just have these little things we're just like the flicking of like eyelids little muscle spans, the guiding principle from rob at the very beginning was just like with make it real. Yeah. Real and. Yeah. So it's not like, overly flashy or silly. Or like what you know? What is the thing that this would be doing to appeal to little kids the most like if if there was really a lizard, Pokemon? It would probably just be stuff to window like that feels like it's a given. And it makes it kind of. I would imagine a slightly easier by and for people who aren't like invested in Polk Amman because the movie just treats it like this is just like a thing. And you gotta roll with. Yeah. Sure. But then also Mutubu is in this move, right? Which is. Which is like somebody words with me. Exactly. Like, this is more like deeper Lor like you should maybe know what we're talking about understand this. I feel like that's boulder. That's a little risk. I don't know. I mean, it was you know, Mutubu was one of the harder elements to nounce when when writing it, and I think that that was something that that everyone worked on throughout the entire the movie because it does require a little bit of deeper Lor. And it does require an understanding that there are like. I don't know tears of Pokemon that well, this one is there's a lot of peekers out there. There's only one there's only two it's sort of. It's man made its powerful than anyone else. It's kind of a person. Talk powers. It makes smoke monster. Yes. I smoke monsters get real big and heat. They fight for the MU to right? That's the power. Oh, no. Was just guessing like a psychic Pokomo terrorize your brain like that. Freddie. Krueger. Sure. Yeah. There is so forth. There is a lot of gas in this movie, then gas little files purple gas charge up interest is like an evil drug. Oceans potion. Weaponized potions low or please scientists. Trying to think what else is going on in this one. David. I don't know if you've heard the news start spreading shoebox died recently. That's true Peterman laughing because the very serious, we Santa legend. Yes, we do stand. A legend oldest friends on the show. It'd be clear Peterman Hugh died. Two bucks is owned by Disney, and we'll live forever. Only time will tell. Disney very respectful company that never explained type pass it Selby. But let me just say this. What's the thing that both true Baca and Peter Mayhew have in common had in common? They were over the age of thirty five great hair. That's true. You see those who had good hair until the end Shuba has great here is a walking corporate team. Disney is gonna kill him. The next two months. They're gonna kill him before rise of the Skywalker comes out there. Just to message it'll short we lost him. They're gonna kill you in SNL digital short cannon. But what he's going to die with a full body a hair. That's right because we segue. They were both using hymns. Okay. So hymns you're talking about the one stop shop for hairless skin. Karen sexual wellness for men. Sixty six percent of men and ninety nine percent of Wookey start to lose their hair by age thirty five or age three thousand five hundred respectively. Right once you notice thinning hair. The best way to prevent more hair loss is to do something about it. When you still have some it's time to get a handle on this precious locks. You and I looked to get our hands on precious locks. Onto the show for a long time. For him says no snake goal pills. Gas station kind of supplements prescription solutions back by science. No awkward in person doctor visits. No, long pharmacy lines. It can exceed a real doctors online saves you hours. And it's completely confidential and good. But I think you need to show a little respect to my joke. I honestly did not hear it. I love to take hold of precious lock whenever we're at a bagel. Joke. Okay. Do you agree? You're here. She's nodding. Just for this ad. She's never going to be an episode again. She flew in this ad read. I told her I got a joke in the chamber. All right, listen, I have to do action. You must it's mandatory miles. Nurse can get started with hymns complete haircut for just five dollars today right now while supplies last and subject to doctor's approval. See website for full details and safety information. This could cost hundreds if you went to the doctor or a pharmacy somewhere else. So just go to four hymns dot com slash check. That's F O R Rams dot com slash check for him stuck com slash check dollars. K what did you think of the Joe plus? There's also a moment. My favorite Pok Mon very well represented in this movie did. Oh, yes. Rules, but the rules of Ditto or you're like woo. Yeah. It'd be when they introduced in the game, you're like, wait. Is this a loud did? Okay. Just be anything. Right. I started pumping my face at Ditto reveal. But also was like you need to go into the movie knowing that Ditto exists. You have the one shot of Ditto earlier. Yeah. Don't worry about it. It's still functions on the story level. But I'm saying the moment where he says it's a Ditto right before the Ditto reveals itself, I was cheering was cheering. My momma be like, let's just watch just watch. What he did? It's always a balance because when you write I I would say in general, there's a tendency in the first. Screenplays to over explain because you are thinking about those sorts of things when you're writing which is like, well, we need to expand with the Ditto is and we need to like what like who who broke ground on rhyme city. Company did they use? Yeah. Which construct, you know, so you're they used Pokemon do they actually in the there's a little bit of movie, but there was like in the original screenplay like like girders doing a lot of of gas. We really like very Flintstones were gravely study was like, what is the infrastructure? Do they Bill? So you there's a tendency to go into it. And then I think that when director or whoever is watching the movie sometimes the things that you think are important guests proved not to be as we found that on the tick. Yes, I'm sure that you you probably saw some of the drafts and process, and then when you see the finish episodes like we just for example, like what's the clue going to be? Is it going to be a shoe? Is it going to be right? And it'd be this isn't going to be glasses. Is it going to be a truck? Is it going to whatever? And so what you realize I felt when I was watching the season. I was kinda like, you know, what we spent so much time picking the clue making this looking. Yeah. And it literally did not matter then then may feel differently the of the, but I. Felt like yes it worked. But but also like the the proportion of time spent to like the labor. Room the amount of time spent on that chew, right? Was no I'm I remember being in the room. I think when the shoe was being argued for like ours. Ours we read so I think sometimes that happens when you start to go to the edit. Yeah, you start to be like, you know, what maybe there's some people that are going to be confused by did of. But maybe most people are going to. He shapeshifts shaping. Okay. Right. So time you get to that. Like people are already on board with so much craziness that it's just like, right? You're either you're either already well on board or we already lost visually established. Yeah. So you know, I wanna make it clear I was fully on board. But it is true. You're not rock. I mean, there's a lot of moments like that in the movie where you kind of just got to go with it. And I think that some people will be able to and so people will not, and that's maybe okay. But also for property this big. It's not like, you know, you you can presume that a lot of the audience is going to have some base knowledge. You know? That's that's not like an insane assumption to be like the one fifty one are in the cultural vernacular Iringa Ditto is such a fan favorite rate that. Yeah. You you think that most people would have some? Idea about if you're any amount of a fan. I'll tell you thing. I didn't have an idea of until I watched the movie I am sexually attracted to women. Did oh is. Waterhouse with little beady nude. I mean, even here we see Chris gear with. No, maybe. No. Well, actually, we did. We did was into that. I was into any human form. That's a brave admission. This is very high. Show one issue. You're I think you might be in trouble. I don't think you're gonna find it did a white person in the real real. Hey. Hey. Body Mods now. Like some reality you pay enough. Yeah. You can find it. I have a beautiful girl girlfriend ger beautiful. Metal plated is named TC for. I got no complaints on my aunt in this movie pitchers. Detective right? This isn't important thing that we haven't really a hat. He has a has a little case coffee. Clues. Let's Clinton he's got a thirst for Selva case loves it. He's voiced by Ryan Reynolds. Did you have any concept of like what kind of personality you wanna the act like when you're writing like, obviously in writing with the knowledge that like this is a Ryan Reynolds role. Right. It was pre Ryan Reynolds writing involved. I think this is where we were really inspired by like classic Noir. Right. Or like we wanted him to feel like a, you know, middle-age Noir detective, right? And that was John Pollino in the big lebowski. Very super deep cut. About him. No like, Fred macmurray. I don't know something. Like, right. Like those guys. One of those kinda like told drinks water. I have been obsessively reading Raymond Chandler jer. And I actually really love the original radio shows of Philip Marlowe vistors interesting with a guy named Gerald Moore. Who was it's actually quite well, okay. It is probably not interesting. But it's very interesting to me, which they tried to do this Philip Marlowe show with this guy van Heflin, and they did the pilot episode. They did pilots radio shows and. The episodes called red wind, and it's okay, it's fun. It's like pretty good. It's kind of you know, by the numbers a few a year later. They were like, you know, what let's try this again, we're going to get this Gerald more. We're going to do the same pilot. Wow. So you can actually do it comparison of the two pilots. The exact same. It's maybe a little different. But same store it's called red wind. And when you listen to the difference between these two guys, you're it is nine day, this guy, drove more was in credible. And so I was really at night immersing myself in kind of Newark classic Noir from forty nine fifty these books. And so when you go deep that or even things like the narration and blade runner. Right. Original cut off in the news director, Scott, right? Not that. It's actually prefer the director Scott. But just trying to get a sense of these classical Eddie valiant in Roger rabbit, being a great example. Probably my maybe my favorite example. I didn't even think of Rodrigue that's huge. Because that's also I wore movie set in a completely bananas words, very bright warm. Yes. And that's really interesting that you know, Nuoro sort of an attitude in some ways and so few PG Noir films, which this like proudly wears even even rod rabbit is is a little harder edged and say a lot harder. No question. But what I think is great about personal Bob houses was like he is so into the he should have won six Oskar that you're no one gave that performance enough credit when you look back at some of these performances that weren't lauded. Yeah. And you're like actually the degree of difficulty in what this man was doing was impossibly who's working before anyone was used to sort of tennis ball act like he's working needed the process an actor of doing all of that. When they didn't understand what the reference points were. And like the guys were like editing that movie would say like it was incredible. He would like look at Roger rabbit. He would like turn around and do some business in the office. And then he would like find. The exact point where Roger rabbit would have traveled. You know, in attendance without them guiding seems insane. And by the way, Justice Smith, who is the protagonist very great actors, and he does a very his it amazing job of having chemistry with an, you know. All right. Is he holding a little doll like is there a thing in in some shots like a doll? Yeah. But you know, sometimes it was just all like, and there's someone playing the part onset or doing a dialogue off camera. But it isn't Ryan Reynolds. I mean, it's this weird thing having to do chemistry like silo as forces that have to cut together, so in so in any value case what I think is so brilliant about that movie. And it's one of my favorite is the reality in which he plays everything so straight. Yes. Yeah. These are real this issue. Tune cold is suck. Yeah. Tunes. Fuck it hates tune. And it's what makes that whole journey so rewarding by the end when loosens up is one of my one of the best arcs of any sort of protagonist by a just learning to. Learning the thing like attuned learning like know how to relate to them. And that's why one of my favorite moments in Pika CHU is the moment. Where Justice is character. Tim has a very motion speech to a ball before. Yes. And that was what is weird or things that engine? I have ever written. Yeah. We're sitting there like being like, I mean, we had this conversation. Like this to Weirs is full dramatic speech to a bull before they can't talk. But we just we we believed it, and and and we wanted to put it stayed through the end because. Yeah, I think it has that. Grounded reality to the whole thing. Like, this is real the stakes are real like. And it also was like this kid needs to learn how to communicate with these things on there that was to me the biggest influence from Roger rabbit, which is I think that that was so ingeniously done, and we really wanted to try to similarly capture that now, of course in red rabbit. They can talk back, right? So little bit, you know, other than detective matscher, but you know, you're semi biscuits. And yet like that kind of you get, you know, their personalities a little bit more. But that was definitely intentional on our part and something that we gave a lot of thought to and I was actually really pleased with the way that it came out in the movie. Well, just I mean, the thing I was very impressed with watching performances I feel like in this is a thing that bugs me often in films like this where someone has a tragic back story, and they kind of don't play it for ninety percent of the moving. Like, they only play the weight of the things when it's convenient for the scene, and they drop it whenever it gets in the way of anything else. I don't think there's a scene where you lose track of the fact that he's grieving over his father, even when it's like a funny scene. Yeah. I think he carries that technically the performances like insane because he's acting with a thousand species doing insane things all the time. But the thing is kind of like what you said in a less tragic away or maybe less violent way. He does have a bit of the valiant thing because it's like he's a kid who grew up loving poke Amman you want to be on trainer. Like most of us who grew up watching or playing polka Mon, and then he sort of like fell into the like, I think I have to grow up. I have to get a job. And also, I resent the fact that my father left me and spent all his time solving poke Amman crimes like I live in the real world that poke Amman world is some other kid business. And someone asked us a really good question. The other day when we were doing an interview they said did you intend? And for the arc of that character to sort of mirror. The ark of someone who was of szeswith Pokemon, and maybe got over it and then back to it. And I'd like to say that that was one hundred percent conscious. I mean, there definitely was some of it share. But I do realize now that there is a a very. There is a parallel there. Yeah. That is is I think that on some level that was what we were writing about you know, that you go from. I guess this comes back to the fandom that you know, it's like something that you just love with the intensity of kit. Right. Most intense thing that you that first blush of like, this is my thing. I'm forging my density around this thing, this is going to be part of me that I carry forward even if I start to drift away from the thing itself. And now we're hoping that what we're seeing on Twitter from people who have seen the early early screenings is people being like, I feel like again or I. Yeah. Or be like, I hope my favorite Pok Mon is in the movie, and that's very rewarding. My mind is not in the mood. I'm sorry. Who's your favorite Paul? It's why would never pick squirrel because when Bozrah showed up who's a big one for me very excited. Even though I knew he'd been in the trailer. They have been bulbous. I like it. There were a lot of them though. We felt like right herds of Pokemon a rarely thought about like in the in the world. You know, it's always a very one on one kind of experience when you're playing the game. So I like it. There was a heard that there was some sort of weird unspoken bulbous ritual that was sort of happening above a source. And that's my other favorite scene in the movie actually is the build up to that. The the March of the ball is it's it's like weird. I had a similar I Ross I recently rewatch, my neighbour Totoro. Sure never gonna call up on this podcast, one of my very favorite movies. Right. But the reason I love it so much that it is so unexplained. Yes, logically to there is no logic. Child's view the whole time. It just is. Yeah. He'd write us is if you look into the right forest on the right day with the right attitude. You might get a totara of you're right. You're protected above a certain my own. Well, that's how I and that was exactly that above a savant zone but Griffin. Immediately leaned over Boba soaring. And I was like, I usually pick all sorts. I never picked skurdal because I don't I don't wanna get locked into my water. Say I was trying manner guy terminators four inches a kit. Terminator is is a tough challenge. In the first game. He's the hardest. Pok Mon he sucks against the first two, Jim. Yeah. He's going to turn into the best underdog narrative. Right, right. Whereas stories the easiest, but I just like because he's you know, he's just cool. He's got a flower. His he's so he's the cute. So when we're reading that scene. We wanted a sim, and I think the director and the DP everyone did amazing job of catching this. But it was on the page because it was something that we really felt passionately about. We wanted to capture this sense of like if you walk into the right grove. And maybe you'd see a heard of Bubba sorts of your life would be completely different. And better. Do you guys ever? Put him on snap know that game is very much. It's very like Hertie. It's you know, it's like it's that idea. Yeah. Idea for a game whoever came up with that thing. I love to where it's just like once again, not talking any shed about another video game. I'll tell you that might have had recently poorly received trade might be about like a fast being of some thing. Nonspecific as possible. All of these characters. Look exactly like the original designs. Yeah. Only sort of filtered. They've been put through is make them tactile. And I like that just like, you know, what if you're going to see a poke him on movie you have to accept that. Some of them have flowers on their back. Some of them are ghosts yet. Some of them are made of raw it is what some of. Mechanical while the Cuban wears his mother's skull. This is the world you're living in baby. So now, they just they got scales. And they got the weirdest thing to think about is like none of the Pok Mon technically have closed. So right. Mister mind. Yes. That's dan. Yeah. He's. That's you know, you know, colors skirt is just like a skin, right? Where you're like seeing Mr. Mimas as a kid. It was like, oh, those things on the side of his head are meant to represent like clown hair and just not detailed. And then you watch it in the movie and you're like, oh, they're like weird like vista jewel. Like, they're like his ears like, they're not a hair. They're like these blue sachse flooded chew has red dots. And he's just got some red except you don't go like well. But if he runs fast, he must have the body of using bolts, we need to give them a very realistic human musk, consumer illustration Boba sort the, you know, the designer of the game which remembers name Saotome, she to Jerry, and this guy like sat down, and they would go to zoos, and they would draw a little animals, and he that drawing looks exactly the same as Boba sort dozen this movie has been chain. No, no. And that was a that was. Movie keeping the same silhouette? Yeah. It's really just some of the texture textures. It really is. And that that makes them feel so like. The others. There's no need to reinvent the wheel side. I was very happy with that was like a moment where it's just like these guys get it. Because like you saying we wanted side up to the breakout character. Like if you grew up with Pok, Mon you're like, yeah. Of course, obvious who else would be the option. Like, of course, I is your scene. Stealer. I mean, he's the Pokemon that has a built in attitude. Right. Right. Right. He comes with the person, you know, when there's a personality that's already like half, a work was already done with him. So we were like, yeah, we have to have the crate Chekhov's gun quality of just concentrating out. Like don't make them nerve. Yeah. And you know, some people at first were very surprised at Mr. mine was such a big part of the thing. But it's a similar reason. It's because story gift that it's this is a person with a comedic welcome with comedian going to comedic game that you can play and take advantage of as writers. You're really looking or not only who are the coolest book moan. But which are the ones that you can infuse some personality to or some specific personality because you know, there's many Mr. mimes in the world, right? This one day, right? And that's that's funny. But also that thing of like, none of them can talk. But this one can communicate Mr. has a baked in language. Yes. So was the father thing in place from the moment that you guys came up was that part of sort of the original inception of the thing. Yeah. I mean that goes back to the game. Okay. Okay. So the game also has that kind of like the Twitter. We're looking for the kids that right? Yes. And I think that if I recall correctly the first detective at your game actually doesn't resolve that storyline gun. It's it's it's it's it's the one that we got the the original Japanese one was only the first few chapters of the game. So there was no resolution to the story. I think the one that came out here. The more. It's a little. But even then it doesn't fully spell it out. We do. So the wasn't element of like, okay? We have to try to make this feel earned. Yes. Much as possible. Right. We tried to write emotionally, I know the other people involved in the movie did as well. And and you know, that was something that. It was it was challenging to strike the right balance because you don't want it to me maudlin, but you also want to deal I hope earnestly with with loss and grief and give Justice something to play which he did. Incredible. I think he did an amazing job of doing that. And you know, so how do you do that as a writer? For me, my parents, and I have great relationship with my parents. But my parents got divorced when I was very young. And I remember those feelings of loss and the same as a parent dying. But you try to say okay from some emotional reality. Yeah. That and can we infuse some of had into this crazy? That's also has to be a movie kids. You have that challenge to you can't make it to visceral or, but you know, you wanna skirt that edge, not as a back Patty thing. But since season two came out, I've seen sewing people responding to the danger boat up associates, just like how did they commit this heart into doing this emotional scene with a robot boat, and the answer is and neither of us were in communication about this. And I didn't piece it together until months later, but as you guys know from being in the room, Susan her return, sin producer, who's main writers on the show whose incredible person her best friend died like very short. Before writing this. And she wrote the danger brought up funneling all of her emotions into that that sort of sense of loss. And I like a month before we started filming one of someone very close in my life. Got diagnosed with a very serious illness. And there are one hundred percent fine now, but I showed up on set not knowing that she had written it based off of something real playing that scene as if I was taught your thing, and she took her thing, and we never communicate with each other. And we have this thing where people are like, why does the scene make me cry? This is stupid. But also if you're good things are going to act these things like why show up if you're not gonna give your all against the bulbous. You're not gonna write based off of your your divorced from your child's finger exactly on the most important thing. First of all Susan is a brilliant writer and didn't know what was interesting is that she was actually supposed to write the second of the season, which you guys ended upgrade, right, right? And I sort of not not to say that like, obviously, I'm sorry that her friend pass away that was a horrible thing. But. The way that it fell. She was able to. I think it's the best of probably of the season yet. It's a month. I. Obstreperous is really good that one. You know, I like actually like. Pretty good. Dan, veggie him aboard. To bumps, but but but yes, she gave it everything. Yes. She and the way that you actually that that was like, okay. Yes. It's a boat, but we're gonna take this so fucking seriously. It's got break, your heart. I showed up on set. And I didn't tell anyone that's because I thought it was daunting. But I was like okay cool for them. When I read the script, I went this is the day where I'm going to funnel in all my executive about me. A losing the person. I love this person might die. And that's and I it that comes through. And so that's the kind of seriousness and kind of going back to the beginning of our conversation is like if you're gonna read a book to write a fucking Pokemon movie. Don't don't you'll your punches. Dopey disdainful of it. Yeah. And and I'm not saying anyone was that. I'm just saying, you know, that was how like that carrying too much thing. Right. Was like, okay. Yes. I'm gonna care too much about this right now and Benji about the same way. He was he was giving checks. Yeah. No. I just wanted as much money as possible and for the check to save Pokemon company. That's right. Yes. So I I don't know. I think that the DNC Azam gap or the versatility. Yeah. Is is sometimes like very apparent right? When you see things that maybe people didn't believe in that much. And I really hope that people like the movie and respond to it aren't listening to this before. But I, but I think they will. I do think there's a generational thing. And for people like me who I was held like eleven years old video game came out. And so I've sort of been steeped in like like, I am so happy to see a movie like this. If you're a little older, you're like that thing always pass me by this just I don't get it. I can see that happening. No, there are there are some critics that I've seen on Twitter, whatever that have been like don't I I went in thinking Pok Mon were stupid. And I still think they're stupid. Why were you the critic like I'm gonna go see this thing if you already hate Pokemon video game critics, and of course. Yes. The video game movie as we've discussed is rife with bombs sort of missed opportunities or like a studio being like candid on all the nerds shit. Okay. Just John coupla damn can be guile. That'll be fine. Right. You know, he wrote. That's here. One day really Sousa is a one. Yeah. That's. He's actually. Moody filter of he had one day. Yeah. It's actually an incredible accomplishment cast, everyone they built a set. And then we're like. I time is six AM tomorrow. I went deep on this. Once I think it's on. But someone was also talking about it. But it was a really wasn't situation where they're like, we don't we don't have a script streetfighter is like well, you just draw right from the video game. Right. These street fights am bison. Are you ready? So what you're talking about? And I just think video game fan seem to be responding. Very positive. I was seeing. Kotok like an emotional story based off video game world. Whereas most video game was the problem. They get into it's an action movie. And if you're watching the action scenes, you rather be home playing them. Well, that's the thing. It's like this sort of the the video game movie curse that people refer to there is a thing where. Unlike other comic books or books or anything like that a video game people are used to controlling hundred being control number of its story. They don't just want to watch action that they're not lay. Right. Like, what's the it becomes instantly less fun like watching assassin's creed happen than the second? No. You're gonna facade. A couple of weeks ago. Yeah. Good more fun to play. He's never played. You would love to play it even more. I'm like, assassins. That's why I pick you love. Read about that gotta get that apple. So I'll try the game. You gotta try. When we're doing the peak at you. Yeah. We're telling a different type of story. It's very intimate specific emotional store. You're not trying to capture the whole world. You're not doing the battles, which probably the one battles. Right. Gotta give people a little bit cool. Magic carpet ball the. Stuff like that. Something six stuff that was an idea that we had earlier that really got to be in there. We wanted to show that they're. Lucien? This useless thing. Now is not so useless. But I'm interested in your guys in about the video game curse. Because it wasn't something that I was thinking about when we were writing this moves really at all, especially well, you got pudding when you've all you've already got the anime in. You know, you have a little more than video games to draw so much and so many different games. It's been filtered through so many different lenses. I do sort of want. You know, I've seen a few review. Like, I, you know, you're right. The game media has been so positive. Yeah. And some of them were traditionally based on video games, we go go see I would love to hear that list. I've been like it's it's pretty good. Does it break? The video came curse. I don't think. So my friends, and I sort of like, well, what is the like like weirdly like every time. One of these movies comes out, it seems like the bar is impossibly high in a weird way. I. I hope that someone writes, the godfather of video games, and it wins all shows you pick twenty twenty three it is kind of a weird. I don't know. It's sort of a weird. I don't wanna say fake. But it's like it's like a self only prophecy. Maybe there is a little bit of like, it's like it's like a carrot that some people are dangling. Yeah. It's like did you break it? I don't think. So. But I think Benji onto the right thing, which it is like, it's it's speaks of the we're relationship people have to these things and sometimes have some like street fighter where you're like. Wow. This is an exciting world. Look at these characters what we're locations. There's no real story to go off here. Desouza is writing the script. And even that's impressive for a one day script person makes thing out of whole cloth. They wrote the king speech. Every movie with every good screaming. Here's here's some. Here's somebody game. So you've got your they've they've taken a few cracks mortal combat. I'm gonna tell you which ones that I think are good. Okay. Do you want me to go chronologically or by? Okay. Okay. Okay. So the first degree video game movie really ever is Kramer. Okay. Super. Mario brother. I think that movie that movie is Chris is crazy. I like it. I liked it at the time. I wrote a big piece fending sort. I don't know if I want to say, it is a good movie, but it is a caffeinated and like provocative movie, and it has these insane sets anyway practice, strong choices. Absolutely bizarre. Perversion of like a platform game about a little man who's running around. But like the guy to do something with Goshi model is super cute movie. The is Donald Trump Donald Trump. Yeah. Trump Trump Kupa such a perfect snapshot of the ninety s early ninety where they're like he had no, no guk. It up guys everywhere idea of how the mushrooms function sort of realistically quotes. Of course, Hoskins we've already been legs. Who who is one of my when he's he's I love. Odd sibling pair, but I love movies actually, weirdly aged while I. All right. So we then we have street fighter. Not not a great movie. Never seen a great one day. But a great in the annals of twenty four hour film festival. Screwing history. I would rank that one of the best. Paul W Sanderson enters the game the two mortal Kombat movies, which I haven't seen the second one. I barely remember. I saw the second one in theaters. And it was one of the more disappoint. I made my dad go. Sure. Sure. Sure. And my dad skipping a few of the little ones a fighting game. You fall into this thing where it's like hard. No. 'cause he'd rather just doing the fights at the time of strong characters. These great characters, and I have to say, I I actually really loved the first mortal combat, right? The Sanders because it did have sort of that nineties like techno techno. There is a vibe in that movie that is specific to like not even just like a decade, but like a few years within the decade yet. And I think that's kind of cool. All right. So we're going to keep going. We've got a while. Then we have Lara Croft tomb raider, which is not so good, which is sort of like grafting like, I don't know Indiana Jones e. Example of just that movie not working. I don't think any of the problems in that movie are connected to the fact that based off of a video not at all. I mean, they just watch they looked at the video game. This isn't the Enzi. Right. And she's a lady I think it's kind of. Candor movie. I like a lot. I actually liked that one. We all. So it does seem to be just maybe the first lark off wasn't. I remember seeing it as you know at the time. It was okay. Then there's the resident evil series, which is these sort of agreed on a I think masterpiece of video games sin about six of them. All kinds of insane director very fond of them their own there. They're separate from the video. They will have characters who are like kind of nodding into the game. But they're they're a hole, and they really like the millage of it's show, and she's the Queen of like gay movies. I sort of appreciate their commitment. They're good being super crates by the time they're in the fifth one. They're really like there. If you're still watching these than just similar to in a way watching like benches. We kind of the saw. Yes, lorgos goes so d- have once you get to saw, you know, five six seven like it's been dead for four movies. I think it was off five or six with flashback within a flashback within. And it's just like, okay. And so like, I don't watch it for like like, the torture stuff, whatever. But just in terms of like insane storytelling like flashing back to you thought you knew what happened this time, but actually this. Nope. Actually, this third thing was happening. And it's like, yeah. Okay. Resin even movies function in that way. And I think if they were more literal app -tations of the games, they might have had a harder time work. All right. Then it gets really dark because you have crept like a load of dark give to which is just sort of like. This is. Yeah. Silent hill, which is kind of like one of the great video games as art series. Like, they kind of take a crack at it. And it's sort of like visually interesting, but like ma-, right? It's all visual. Yeah. They take pyramid. Head like who is such a dynamic and crazy character. And he's just like a big tonight. Rich like going through this list. I perhaps the problem with a lot of these movies of the exact thing we've been talking about is hiring writers who kind of have disdain for the thing there or any of these people. Specifically, the directors are maybe it's the actress wherever it is. But a lot of these franchises fuel like either when resume evil works. It's like we're gonna make our own thing out of this and the ones that don't work like no involved. Maybe think they're kind of slumming it, and it may be that things are getting better. Just because like the generation of people that actually claims is now the age of people that are writing movies like us, right? Right. Right. The generations caught up. I'm sure that people were very hard. I know. I know. Pain is a great example of where it's like what do people like about max Payne? Let's not do that. Right. Right because I played all this game. And I love this game. The second. One is incredible is a massive. I've actually like Duar a well told strike. Great. And so they're like, well, let's not do that. Bewildering? Weird choice. And so, yeah, I think maybe we're tapping into something. But no. But then there's this final phase. I wanna get to which is warcraft assassin's creed tomb raider and the movies that are not well received. And yeah, often don't like warcraft was kind of Obama though to really well overseas. But those are movies written by people who like those games and are kind of like so deep on the lore like your craft in penetrable. Right. If you haven't like played no idea what I was walking. Right. And and and it sort of throwing you in the deep end, and yeah, the reaction was kind of bafflement, but like I sort of work I saw with my big world of warcraft friend, and at the end of the movie when the baby comes out he was like, that's the lead character. And I was like what are you going? What's? Prequel to the game. That's the actually care about his dad. And so now we've got like we've got to Texas peak. We've got an unnamed fast rodent, I don't know. What says? A speedy speedy the animal, you gotta Minecraft movie wins that happening it keep on and keep your schedule. Post is another one that I think is very daunting to. What Lewis right? Make a movie out of that. Like like, it's like the the old PC game for old Audrey like the grid, and you push the little boxers him mind swing? Making sweeper good make. Signed to minesweeper. What's wasn't your dad like the world's foremost minesweeper up there? He's he. What what what I'm thinking about as you're saying this? And I think maybe this is an advantage that the Pokemon has. We're talking about movies about adventures we're talking about movies about assassins. Yep. Yeah. We're talking about movies about fantasy world that while it is. It's thing is not unprecedented in the sense of we are familiar with the rings. We're familiar with orcs and warriors these things that are and this is a lethal combination often largely plot Lewis and very lore. Heavy. It's very hard to write a script or there's a ton of back story. But the plotting itself is kind of like an this happens, and then this happens and then this half. So it kind of is interesting that the ones that we kind of were gravitating towards our maros, very weird and very neat. Yeah. Mortal combat. Very specific to that. Very, and it's and it's very of its era, but not unprecedented like the fighting tournaments things. But you know, the way that scorpion is integrated that movie is very cool, and it's different. And it's not something you've seen a million times. So maybe there is something to embracing like the weirdness or the uniqueness of whatever the property isn't just say like, yeah. This is the fucking. We're thing that we're doing in turning it into generic copy of whatever move whatever John hot year doing that takes place in Wyoming, and apparently or seemingly from the trailers only in the last scene probably has the characters looking the way you remember them looking like a quick out of seven. I'm out of seven. Quite a spiny egg-laying mammal. I have noted we're talking about. But I also feel like yes, I don't wanna make it sound like I'm putting the blame for those earlier movies. Just like, oh, this screenwriter was a hacker this or that. But you also have examples where maybe like the writer cares a lot about and the director cares. A lot about it. And then a big movie star signs on. And they're like, I don't wanna do that stuff. Or it's the director who doesn't care when the other people did or whatever it is. But also, very often. I think we're living in a world where they understand the value of for for better or worse studios. Now understand the value of the IP is the IP. You don't strip mine it and find a way to get as little of the IP in the movie as possible and make the rest the phone catering to what you think mall goers wanna see if you're making a movie off thing, you wanna make the best movie of that thing, and represent everything that people like about that thing who will go back to what we were talking about at the beginning. I think you know, the fandom becoming the mainstream right has made it. So that's the case. It's like. Not trying to appeal to you know, random Joe. Right. Like, the most vocal people and the people still going to the movie theater, right? Are the fans that wanders confidence of knowing? We can write him for the hardcore fans. And if only the hardcore fans see it that's enough to make a movie a big hit. Right. And you know, you obviously want to write a movie that anyone gets it down and enjoy. Yeah. You want to write the movie I mean like you want something that anyone can enjoy? But you also want the people who want the movie to work the most to be able to enjoy not sit down writing to take the peak at you saying this is a movie that every single person in eleven. We were trying to make movie to try and cater to every perfect Quadra. Right, right. We we wanted to make something that the fans would love and that could also bring in some new fans that didn't realize that they love Pokemon forgot about final fantasy the spirits with him. Within is a very weird one kind of its own. Right. I didn't like I don't think it's like a great movie. But it it it's trying something. It's and it's it's definitely I mean, it's extremely you know, JR in its story. And thanks so like final fantasy is a great example of could they make a good movie final fantasy seven. Maybe. I mean, I don't know. But that's another. That's one where like if someone gave us that challenge. I would be like, okay, right. This is something that I really love. It's also one of those things where studios gonna have to be like sure take a huge budget. Like, it's not something you're going to like for nothing. So I think that. When we set out to write the movie, even when we were talking to each other. We were like, you say won't get a like this, and we were kind of going I think so, but maybe not maybe that's okay. Because we're going to try to tell the best version of this story that we possibly can. And you know, that's why I feel like. You know, I hope that it's a big hit. And I hope that you know, it gets pretty favorable reviews. But if it doesn't like, yeah, I remember I was gonna say is I had a professor in college. Who was a theater professor and was a pitcher. It was he could shoot professor pick. His name is Spencer Golub. He was the head of the department at Brown, and he didn't example one day of like, Paula specified. He sat on like acute just like a regular queue jer. And you know, it's like you say, and then like he was like everyone around any like did something he couldn't tell any sat on it. But there was something like appreciably different of the way that he was sitting on this cube. And it turned out that there was a hole in the middle of the of the cube that was making his city experience like uncomfortable. We could not see this whole, right? But we could tell that something had changed. And I think that screenwriting is when you actually give shit about the subject matter, and you're sort of thinking about things like. Okay. Well, we wanna reference total recall, and we want to put Roger rabbit into it and the third man these Raymond Chandler. I hope that like secretly embedded in this movie. Right. Like, even if you has no idea never listened spot. Doesn't know anything about what we did. Or why that there is some sense of like they seem to have an idea they seem to be like confident about whatever it is that they're trying to accomplish. And I think that the movie does the copy tonight. I'm proud of that. So here's a question. I don't know how much you guys comment on this. Or not David has one big takeaway, the end of the move turns me, and he goes I'm worried I did say this detective Pika cheese a star. I was like you guys got rid of detective Pika chew. And like, I mean spoilers the movie kind of takes them off the board of me again. This is coming out a couple of weeks after the movies. Yeah. He so good that I was almost like don't don't don't take away. Things like emotionally narrative of half. Worse. It's the point you to what was there any writing Warner Brothers? I'm like, wait a second. Hold up hold up about when the peach talks in Ryan Reynolds voice, though, we can't coffee. So I don't think it's talking about school to say at the script stage or at the planning stage. There was talk and debate about that exist exact issue. Yeah. I think that what was Alta decided upon correctly was let's tell the best story that we can tell for this movie. And if you wanna bring it back and later future movie. That's a problem that will be dealt with. Hopefully, a really cool. Great of what seems like the right answer to me. Right. Because it wasn't. You know, I it there were there are a couple of things debated while could we do this that do we preserve it in this way or that way? But ultimately, it was like, no, let's just tell the story. Let's make it a completed thought I mean, which is much better than the opposite franchisee thing where you like the movie ends kinda unsatisfying some leans over. Well, they've already signed the contract for this spin off. So that's why it's doing that. And you're like or my friends over and goes that babies the lead. That shit right, right, which I'd much rather see a film that can rose thought. And it does also in an interesting way kind of set the stage where it's like, I know I know they announced that someone's writing detective Pika chewed direct seat will. But they're also people I think writing other live action poke Amman moves at their incubating a bunch right now. But I Toby was incubated. Yes. I do. Yeah. Exactly Toca piece, you know, and right now, I like the idea that this like world set up and the franchise could just be what are other stories in the polka mine universe. Like what way they end up going who knows? But I do like the promise of just like, and the next film could be like a fucking legal thriller, and the next film could be like a trainer like it could be karate kid hokum, professor Pika to if we wanted to make clear that like rhyme city is still connected to the rest of the Pokemon shot up. Is that right? And so it's all it's all out there. And is a fertile, you know. Yeah. Ground for whatever story like him. David slow. Yeah. So don't worry. It's going to be okay. Okay. Okay. I just really connected to people working on this, even as we. All right. Ben, you have big you ought to say, we're basically detective. Detective detective Ben is on the case. Okay. I got some of my favorite parts of the movie. Okay. So you've now you surmise what you think happens in the movie from us talking about the process of writing my favorite Pok him on the motorcycle to frozen, mud, spike. I really love that moment when it came into the bar. They were he was aping heart. A lot of those in jersey. Right. I feel like yeah. Medical doesn't sound that far off. Floor favorite Pok Mon by far the burning tire Pokemon scorch? All these all could be because there was that moment like three generations where they were like any men made object could be opposed. Door. Yes. Bag garbage was one. I really wanted. Urban. In our early draft shirt. And I think maybe it was maybe too weird or something. But and then classic new are setting. I was excited to see in the movie was the quicksand factor course. Right. Any any good blockbuster verisign facs where are you calling phone? The quicksand. No, not what if what if you make it. I guess it's both. All right. What else it was kind of weird to see Kirby? Driving a blimp. Yes. That was a weird, right? Irvy's nintendo. He's not a or. Yeah. Oh, he's already mean. Like, Kirby Puckett or Kirby, Pokemon. He's he's curvy. And then of course, the ending which was so crazy as deadpool the whole it was said. So twisted, the movie came out a devil's brain Razi, anyway, a loved it. Well, I mean, that's that's a strong, isn't that? Can you go any higher than that? You can't that's the greatest publish on rotten tomatoes, right, man. Saying some of these people why would you even see this movie? It's not for you. Is there ever been a review so coming from someone more clearly on your side? Getting exactly what you were going for in the movie bents, flashing a peace sign. Beautiful. We're done, right. Have any like final odds is or anything you want to share as you? We wish people a happy detective Pika chill wall. Say I'm working on a new script. It's it's called night eggs on night. Eggs K 's about a detective who eats breakfast at night. This is not a joke e establish this eighteen months ago. He's been working on the script and the villains are which there's right who just which they use their witchcraft to to use as their hacking to access which kind of both. Oh, right. Right. I don't know once get further along what you guys like to take a pass talking about this off the air because that that we need to. Has anyone option this material? Chris Weitz is on board as a producer. Pre existing. All right. Chris collaborator. We can carve it out. Out like to talk to you further about this. Thank you so much. We love the world you're playing. World is. Benxi damn. Thank you so much for being here. This was a dream true. Thank you. I do want to come back for Edwards Swick when it's time. Sure. Movie hang Ori glory trying to think like other. One pot another cast. Well, we did have never go cast. Yeah. People forget he made the second Jack richer move. He did the legends of the podcast blood diamond. Isn't that? Pretty about last night. Did he do about did you? Yeah debut. He made you know, courage under fire. He made what's it called the jet? Bobby Fisher punts out on sacrifice on sacrifice mcquarters. I did two last role on on camera on camera. His last credit film role is the narrator of the boss, baby. That's right. So it sounds to me like this week, you know, fruitful night. It's it's talk off air about opportunity. We love the world. Yes. We love the possibilities. Potential. Spend you then thank you for being here. Thank you for to detect the poke on detective, Pok Mon. I'm sorry, Pokemon. Detective choose that was another thing. Because like when you see the poster you're like, oh, the polka might just be there as branding when the movie starts and the opening titles interest as Pokemon detectives right jazz. Hey, baby. Yeah. We were. We went right at it. Yeah. You gotta you gotta take a bite. What else? She's into the tick. Shit. About it. But what if we did tick, Pokemon crossover? Sure what if season three or is a case. Hair across or whatever. But you say this, but like ban is listening somewhere and be like what are, you know, not more or? Yes. Yes. How did you guess? I just think ticks interrogate him meow. Sounds good. But you couldn't really touch me up territory that was is one of the weird Pokemon to to start out with sad me. I wasn't in the movie there were just seemed like did you have me and certain drafts? Yeah. I think in wonder if he's mentioned like as a background, but not if team rocket is it's kind of like we can't even like open that thing right now. Yeah. So that's why I, you know, but I hope that you know in the future everyone will get to see their favorites. I mean, there was gangling in there and other my favorites you had some great ones didn't touch wag family. We've always wanted gingko from the beginning that we really wanted and looked soaping look great and his weird like you. Wing move. Yeah. Me of a great tiger in hunch out. Yup. You know, what he does the like the spinning whatever, whatever whatever, I know. We just talked about why certain video game movies don't work in all squarely in the territory will punch vehicle movie would be a cool movie the ones that are just cool looking characters fighting are the difficult one glass eye Joe glass. Joe? Yeah. Could be caught Nigel Davis. The one question you'd be little MAC, you'd be great. Vehicle a kid Chris I've been playing smash and I'm like man like nest dresses a lot like me. Who's your smasher who's your Fave? I've been playing his Ness. Most of the time you're in Ness, God, you're horror. No, that's not necessarily complicated. Like the most of the time play play his show Fairmount. Choose one of my face, my girlfriend, always wants to play as a show feud Ness, though, every time I pick them. She's like you just like him because he wears baseball caps. Fucking narcissist. Little classically I like gigli because I find that makes people go the most insane. You're eating is in character play. Thought Herbie was. Very. Yeah. At a bar. I like that too. Superpower Wigley tough. But that was a great movie. On this sort of less powered retired. This was the question. I want to ask you what David's bladder explodes. Okay. You guys are big fans in general, your fans of things like stuff, not stepping on toes of things that you're taking meetings on actually conversation about will it into the universe. Something that you may know progress on is there like a dream thing. I will say, especially if it's a thing where you're like, no one's ever gonna make a movie of that. Where you guys have talked about like, wouldn't it be cool to adapt? This thing that we love that probably isn't a market for. It's a great question. What's your like blank? Check product. Do you look people predicting big box office weekend? You might be getting those calls. You might be the blank check guys by the time. This episode comes out where people are saying, what do you got what your to us the one that always comes to mind? I'd like to adapt transmitter palton. Oh, yeah. A culture. That's that's that's the one. It's the perfect thing. Which like you need a big budget in yet not going to be a family movie. Right. It's funny. It's we're in specific there's a cat two headed cat. That's cigarettes. Every you know that that's one where I I read it and get inspired. I've read it, you know, many times over the years and that that for me would be a dream project. I don't know who controls the rights. I don't know already scripted exists. I don't know if he's editors show, but that is one where I look at it, a crack I'd love Krakatau. Do you have an answer boundary? I've always wanted to do a seven samurai magnificent seven with all of the serial characters. After crunch. Can from the fruit loops all of them. So it's like the magnificent eighty four Doni. Yeah. You know, they gotta put the team together some people. No. Yeah. We'll get a villain who's like the most villainous serial character count chocula the cop from cookie crisp rabbit trees. Yes. But he's kind of good. He's your rogue. If you're indeed kids who are trying to steal lucky charms. Maybe they're the villains. Right. I try to think of the cartesian. Could have like Don crazy at sea commander. There is a cut to crunch villain to is there. There is there's like a red and like black pirates. Sure to captain crunch is like blue captain needs. It. I don't know whatever. Yeah. Anyway, anyway list. Yeah. Now's your chance. Hot properties night. Eggs. Also have helpless part of package not anymore. It's not available. Okay. It's off the table. Okay. It's off the table. It's off the table. Thank you for listening. Please remember rate review. Subscribe, thanks to in for good for social media lame coming for theme. Song job on rounds for artwork to blink dot com for some real nerdy shit. Go to t public for some real nerdy shirts to pitcher on a blend. Check on his features where we're going through all the marvel movies. And as always the Songkhla hedgehog, what's really wish?

David writer director Benji Dan David griffin producer Brooklyn Ben Trump Pok Mon US Two guys Amman Japan soccer Jessica Alba Vince Vaughn Benji Sam rob Letterman
Democracy Now! 2019-01-10 Thursday

Democracy Now! Audio

59:02 min | 1 year ago

Democracy Now! 2019-01-10 Thursday

"Yeah. From New York. This is democracy. Now. Yes. Speaker Pelosi will you agree to my walls and said, no, and he just got up and said, then we have nothing to discuss. And he just walked down. Again, we saw a temper tantrum because he couldn't get his way. And he just walked out of the meeting that partial government shutdown enters its twentieth day one day after President Trump storms out of a meeting with democratic leaders. The impact of the shutdown is growing as the FDA hall. True, teen food monitoring, the scales back its monitoring toxic sites, and the TSA faces a possible crisis as a wave of unpaid airport, screeners quit and volunteers are now helping national parks. This trash continues to pile up. We'll get the latest then to the case of sin Toya Brown. The sex trafficking survivor has been granted clemency by the Tennessee. Governor after serving fifteen years in prison for shooting her rapist when she was sixteen years old. What did but they get in chance to do so much more. I've been able to help people which is amazing. Young young kids. Listen, I'm still gonna try to help you finally a group of patients are challenging the Trump administration's plan to deport over fifty thousand patients living in the US who were given temporary protected status after an earthquake devastated Haiti nine years ago this week all that and more coming up. Welcome to democracy now democracy now dot org. The Warren peace report, I'm Amy Goodman with the partial government shutdown now in its twentieth day. President Trump reportedly stormed out of a meeting with house speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer Wednesday after they refused to back a deal to fund a wall on the southern border in a tweet Trump called the meeting total waste of time. Adding, quote, I asked what's going to happen in thirty days. If I quickly opened things up or you're going to prove border security, which includes a wall or steel barrier. Nancy said, no I said bye bye nothing else. Works Senator Schumer accused the president throwing a temper tantrum. Speaker Pelosi will you agree to my walls? She said, no. And he just got up and said, then we have nothing to discuss. And he just walked down. Again, we saw a temper tantrum because he couldn't get his way. And he just walked out of the meeting. This comes as unions representing workers at the federal government will rally at noon today in Washington DC to demand end to the partial shutdown, which has left three hundred eighty thousand workers furloughed, which means they will never be paid and another four hundred twenty thousand forced to work without a paycheck at the White House reporter asked President Trump about the impacts of the shutdown because people have to go without their paychecks. There'd be some are being forced to work without pay. Some have been furloughed. These are they are green money. They're all gonna get the money. And I think they're going to be happy the partial shutdown increasingly threatening safety nets for the poorest Americans while allowing corporations to go unregulated, Robert Weisman price. Of the watchdog group Public Citizen wrote corporate lawbreakers, you're going unpunished safety inspections or being postponed. Discrimination charges are going on investigated. Polluters are not being held in check financial fraudsters are not being policed consumer complaints or not being received an accident investigations have ceased after headlines will go to Washington DC to speak with Robert Weisman. President Trump and his White House counsel plan to visit mcallen Texas today amid speculation he made clear a national emergency and try to use Pentagon funds to pay for part of an expanded border wall. Meanwhile, the president's oldest son Donald Trump junior shared a post on Instagram comparing immigrants to animals Trump junior wrote, quote, do you know, why you can enjoy a day at the zoo because walls work unquote, Donald Trump junior's post echoes President Trump's past comment calling immigrant gang members. Animals and not people. President Trump's nominated former co lobbyist Andrew Wheeler. As Environmental Protection Agency administrator Wheeler is a former co lobbyists and has been the acting head of the Scott Pruitt resigned in July. Amidst to non-slaughter financial ethics scandals Wheeler has regularly engaged with right wing conspiracy. Accounts on social media and liked racist posts, featuring the Obamas in two thousand thirteen in the Democratic Republic of Congo. The opposition leader Felix a- Keti has been declared the provisional winner in December's presidential election. Congo's independent national election commission says just a Kennedy won a plurality of votes with almost thirty nine percent of the total. But election observers, including the influential churches, bishops conference, say another opposition leader Martin fi. You Lou won handily fi. You Lou has denounced the results as an election coup and promised to challenge. The result comes election that observers say was marred by irregularities with position groups alleging fraud. More than a million Congolese voters were unable to cast ballots violence from armed opposition groups as well. As an outbreak of the deadly Ebola virus a candidate groom by longtime thorough -tarian President Joseph Kabila came in third place. Kabila's promised to step down this month after eighteen years in power and more than two years since his presidential mandate expired. Secretary of state Mike Pompeo has arrived in Cairo Egypt where he discussed security and economic cooperation with Egypt's are tearing president dilford El Sisi Pompeo is set to deliver a foreign policy speech today at the American University in Cairo. His visit comes on the heels of a surprise trip to Iraq Wednesday where he discussed President Trump's plans to withdraw US troops from Syria. Secretary Pompeo's trip to Egypt comes on the hundredth day of Saudi dissident Jamaica show, she's death after he entered the Saudi consulate in this dumble Turkey, October second and never reemerged palm peyot. And the Trump administration have defended Saudi Crown prince Mohammad bin someone even though congress voted unanimously to find him responsible for choke. She's murder in another recent development. Turkish officials have released footage purporting to show members of Saudi hit squad carrying kashogi. She's body parts out of the Turkish consulate in. In large black that s- in the Mediterranean. The government of Malta has allowed nearly fifty asylum-seekers who'd been stranded at sea for weeks to come ashore onto rescue vessels, the decision ended in nineteen day standoff that saw other European Union members to ni- port of entry to the migrants and move. That's been blasted by human rights groups this shameful aboard. The C watched three vessel run by German humanitarian group, there were cheers Wednesday as news of an agreement to process the asylum seekers spread. An increasing number of asylum seekers are dying see Italy's right-wing government move last year to deny migrant rescue ships entry at a talion ports in Lebanon blanket of snow has fallen on makeshift camps for Syrian refugees. Compounding, the misery of thousands of people whose tense flooded with rainwater during intense winter storms over the weekend. The UN says flooding effected over ten thousand refugees across Lebanon with a further seventy thousand Syrians at risk. The storms claimed the life of an eight year old Syrian girl who fell into a river and drowned. Amidst heavy wind and rain CNN reports police have issued an arrest warrant for James Mason. The former manager for popstar R Kelly Mason's accused of threatening to kill the father of Joycelyn savage who alleges R Kelly is holding his daughter against her will in an abusive Colt. A police report of tain by CNN quotes, Mason, est, threatening savage and a text message that. Needs. I'm gonna do harm to you and your family when I see you. I'm going to get you. I'm going to f ING kill. You are Kelly has been accused of sexual assault predatory behavior and pedophilia for two decades. But has never been criminally convicted in Chicago, Cook County state's attorney Kim, FOX says offices investigating numerous complaints against R Kelly and is encouraged other victims to step forward. Meanwhile, pop star lady Gaga apologize Wednesday for collaborating with our Kellyanne a two thousand thirteen single do what you want with my body lady Gaga herself a survivor of sexual assault. She says she'll remove the single from streaming services like Spotify in Kentucky. State lawmakers have introduced a Bill that would affectively outlaw abortions even in cases of fetal abnormalities, rape, or incest. Abortions are already highly restricted in Kentucky, which is just one abortion provider for the entire state Bill similar to Kentucky. So. So called heartbeat. Bill have been struck down by federal courts in New York. Three climate activists who took direct action to halt construction of the aim frac gas pipeline have been found guilty of criminal trespass, Rebecca Berlin, David publ. Oh and genital and solace lock themselves inside a three and a half foot wide section of pipeline. In two thousand sixteen stopping construction for eighteen hours on Tuesday. Judge rejected a necessity defense mounted by the activists who argue their action was necessitated by the clear and present tanger- posed by climate change. But the judge did let the three walk free without any additional punishment. In Los Angeles. The union representing tens of thousands of public school. Teachers has delayed plans to begin a strike today. Even teachers remain far from a breakthrough in contract. Talks the union now says it's prepared to strike on Monday. Unless its demands are met the union negotiators want an immediate six and a half percent. Raise along with smaller. Class sizes more librarians fewer standardized tests and more teacher input and local school leadership councils and Louis garden Kosta the founder and president from thirty five years of the nationally known point they youth and community leadership program in Brooklyn, New York, long regarded as one of New York City's foremost human rights and Latino community activists died on Tuesday night following a long illness. He was seventy two years old, the former seminarian who had been active in the Catholic antiwar movement in Brooklyn garden Kosta joined the young lords party in one thousand nine hundred seventy and later founded that groups Massachusetts. It's chapter while he was still a student at Harvard Medical School in two thousand nine garden at cost a total democracy. Now about as participation in the young lords takeover of the first Spanish Methodist church, and he's tore and late nineteen sixty nine which the group used to house free breakfast and clothing programs health services daycare center, a liberation school and community dinners, the occupation ended in January nineteen seventy when police raided the church arresting one hundred five members of the young lords. Very much involved in Catholic social action, a former seminary for the Catholic priesthood a former monk. And so the question of liberal theology was very much part of my life. And my whole struggle was against the war in Vietnam. But at the same time as I said, they would maybe many missing issues that weren't connecting. I thought and then I heard that young people who were trying to feed the hungry clothe. The naked. Deal with the imprisoned who actually trying to perform the Christian mandate of what we call. The corporal works of mercy had been bloodied in his in church by police officers who had come in that have an unprecedented thing. It's chills up my spine in a church a sacred space. So I immediately the next Sunday went investigate and be part of it. Scarred cost to went onto pioneer successful nonviolent direct action campaigns against segregated public schools and against environmental racism in New York City in his later years together with his wife Francis. Lucerne a- garden Kosta created alternative public high school geared toward human rights, activism. The appointee academy for peace and Justice again, Louis garden, Kosta dead at the age of seventy two and those are some of the headlines, this is democracy. Now democracy now dot org. The Warren peace report, I make Goodman, the partial government shutdown has entered its twentieth day on Saturday. It will become the longest shutdown in US. History of a deal is not reached on Wednesday. President Trump reportedly stormed out of a meeting with house speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer after they refused to back a deal to fund a wall on the southern border Schumer accused Trump of throwing temper trench from Trump described the meeting as a total waste of time. This comes as the impact of the shutdown. Is growing across the country. The shutdown has left three hundred eighty thousand workers furloughed, which means they will never be paid for that time lost and another four hundred twenty thousand force to work without pay the food and Drug administration has announced his suspended all routine food inspections at the Environmental Protection Agency. More than thirteen thousand employees have been furloughed forcing the agency to hold work on air quality monitoring enforcement of toxic polluters and cleanups. At Superfund sites. States are scrambling to administer snap food stamp benefits for three point four million Americans after more than four billion dollars in federal payments failed to materialize housing advocates feared the shutdown could lead to the victims of thousands of low income renters who live in government, subsidized apartments over Levin hundred contracts between the government and private landlords have already expired at the TSA. There are reports of a wave of resignations by airports. Screeners because they're not being paid the American federation of government employees sued the government last week over the situation. Heidrick Thomas, president of the unions TSA council said the shutdowns causing a quote massive security risk for American travelers as the TSA is unable to hire or train new workers during the shutdown. We're joined right now by rob Weisman, president of Public Citizen, the group just released a report, titled shutdown drags on agencies devoted to consumer and worker health and safety unfunded and de prioritized, Robert Weisman, welcome to democracy. Now. Can you start off by talking about what will happen to these workers were talking about eight hundred thousand workers for people to understand those that have been furloughed who are not been working for the last week's will never get paid. And those that are working like TSA agents if they have not quit supposedly will be paid. When the government shutdown ends but talk about the significance of this yesterday. The president said they're all happy. Of course, the president is delusional for the for the eight hundred thousand workers, you know, that's most people in America, including most of these workers live paycheck to paycheck. So they're missing paychecks. And they're just going to have to scramble and they're being put in an impossible situations, historically when these shutdowns of occurred when it settled the workers are paid both the ones who were forced to work where legally required to be their jobs, even though they're not being paid and the ones who've been furloughed or not working. There's another category of people who are comparably being affected who will not be paid ever, which is the huge number of government contractors as you've discussed in recent shows, the government contracts because privatize so much of its business to a huge number of agencies and workers those people aren't working now, and they will not be reimbursed. So people are scrambling, and it's huge here in the Washington DC area. But the federal government is spread across the country. It is happening in every state and every community across the country. So talk about what's at risk from agency to agency. Right. Well, there's a couple couple of ways to think about it. One is the things that they are not doing and the agencies are not doing a lot as you were describing earlier. So the EPA has cut back on routine inspections of of plans and toxic facilities the food and drug administration's not doing its regular inspections of of food packaging facilities. The pipeline safety agency has is scaling back. Its inspections the securities and Exchange Commission is more or less shut down. Which means it's not really able to investigate anything efforts at the federal communication commission or the Federal Trade Commission to monitor ongoing consumer fraud shutdown. So all this stuff is happening in the corporations who were normally being inspected or held into account at least a little bit by government enforcement. It's free rein for them right now. And there's really no avenue of redress for for consumers for these various media things that are happening. You know, maybe one of the most worrisome ones in addition to as at the Federal Aviation Administration where inspection of airplanes is routine inspection by the government has been suspended the company's still do their own inspection. But you know, I feel safer knowing that the government is independently doing the inspections, and that's not happening. That's one whole huge category. The other categories things that are still going on by these workers who these were forced to work, even though they're not being paid. That's a huge number of government functions. It's not possible for people who are not being paid to do their job. Well, it just has to be the case. If you're worried about paying your bills your credit card what you're going to do with your kids. You're upset you're not focused on the job. And you're not going to do as good a job. So the air traffic controllers are still at work, but they're not being paid. And you got to worry about how while they're able to do their job you've reported it also, you know, at the border the border agents are not being paid right now. So has to be that they're going to be worse at their job more brutal shorter temper and so on and as this drags on. It's going to get more and more severe. There are also a category of government activities that either have stopped or are going to stop in the future, including you talked about the provision of the deal making for contracts for low income people. We may see a total end to payments for food stamps at the end of the it sometime in in February funding for the federal courts, at least on the civil side funding for the federal courts is going to run out later this month and probably most civil suits in federal courts are going to be suspended. This stuff is going to really stack up as we move forward. FDA Lee all remember what happened on the round the holidays with Romain lettuce recall, which has just been announced be over. What would happen if something like that happened right now at the FDA, rob? Well, the things that are life threatening. Either were regard to food safety other things they say, look, we're we've got that covered. The problem is you don't know that something's life threatening until it emerges as of outbreak. So then they'll be staffed on and they'll find a way to deal with it on on a -mergency recall like that. But they won't do their forward-looking inspections that might have prevented it and the first place, but the exact same thing the highway the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration routine recalls and inspections aren't going on if there's something that's virgin and life threatening. Once they've discovered it to be so they have a capacity to act, but we're gonna gonna know about it until the above problem becomes a crisis. Something that would have been prevented if they were properly staffed, I wanna ask you about the Fox News how how Fox News is covering the shutdown, and this clip here, Steve Doocy, and FOX and friends, but first FOX contributor, Charlie hurt. You can shut down half. Of the government agencies, and literally it would be years if it were not for the media. It would be years before the regular person the normal average working American would even know that the department had been shut down in terms of how much it affects their lives a lot of people across the country. Don't even notice that part of the federal government is shut so sort of suggesting that the government workers are not normal Americans. But rob Weisman FOX using this as an argument to downsize government. Yeah. Absolutely. I think that there's sort of two strains that are coming together in this for sure on FOX. But also the administration one strain is the hardcore dialogues who actually want to shrink government. This is this is a business friend the argument, but its even beyond business because they're actually impacting things that business absolutely needs to go forward. So that's one strain. These hardcore people in the government would be chief-of-staff acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney. The other strain is people who are just stupid and ignorant who heard all this stuff. How the governor about how the government doesn't do anything actually have no idea what the government actually does. And we're just repeat dumb things because they've got no idea and are informed by this hardcore ideology, I think that the comment you just played is probably a mix of both those things I think President Trump himself and most of the White House fall and both these categories they actually don't know there've been a lot of reports that when they forced the shutdown. They didn't realize gosh, the government does a lot of stuff. There's going to be a lot of impacts about this. I think one thing that they picked up on was they didn't want pictures of the national parks being shutdown. So they've left the park's open on safely without staffing. But they. Mostly don't know what the government does the government there in charge of running. And we're gonna talk about the parks in a minute. But let me ask you about President Trump declaring a national emergency summer speculating that the fact that the White House counsel is with him as he goes down to the border to mcallen, Texas, suggests he might be talking about declaring this emergency, which he says he is an absolute right to do. What is the significance of this? And then possibly the Pentagon coming up with two and a half billion dollars extra to build the wall. What does it say about budget where an agency confined to and a half billion dollars extra? Well, you know, I we shouldn't ignore that. Last point. You may. I mean, there's so much money being wasted on military spending right now, huge amounts of just money inside the Pentagon sloshing around going to places where they can identify who's being paid. And what it's what it's for that its own legitimate national crisis that needs to be addressed. But to the bigger point about the emergency as a matter of law. It's going to be a complicated thing. The congress has given the president quite a bit of a thority to declare emergencies with terms that are almost unbounded and with powers that have few bounds. Congress has always expected in society is always expected that presidents wouldn't abuse that a thority recklessly declaring emergencies just because they want to we have a president now who has no such constraints. So if he does perceive, which I think is reasonably likely it's going to be a complicated matter of law, but beyond what the law is. Just think about the underlying principles the sort of real constitutional principles the democracy principles. It's a serious matter beyond just the outrage of funding stupid, needless and immoral wall or even part of one which is what he would propose to do. He wants funding for border wall. Congress saying no, the the move to call a national emergency is for the president to say, I will not be constrained by what congress says even though there's not really a national merge salads invoke. These powers. I can do something that otherwise be a legal simply by declaring a national emergency. Now that is if you follow the logic of that that leads to almost unbounded presidential power when you have an authoritarian like Donald Trump in office that is a frightening prospect. It does not have to end just at the reality of billions of dollars from the Pentagon. For whatever it was going to be spent on towards building, a useless and immoral while that of Florida could be invoked for all kinds of quite terrifying purposes. And it's it's something that goes actually way beyond significance of the wallet self and something that we should be very very concerned about if it happens is I think is reasonably likely, and of course, this would all go to court, but before we go there, I wanna go to what's happening in the national park since the shutdown began their around the country have seen overflowing toilets trash piling up park. Experts are warning that the damage may take years to undo on Tuesday afternoon, democratic representatives cheque's speier and Charrette Huffman, California delivered a blue bin full of garbage collected from national parks to the White House. They labeled the Ben Trump trash. This is congress member Huffman. I'm bringing boxes of trash from that rainy Saturday in San Francisco to provide a reality check to the president. So that he understands that his political stunt and shutting down the government over the border wall has real world consequences trash like this diaper burrito. Rappers cups or his building up parks. We represent a national parks all over the country. We're joined right now by Jonathan Asher government relations manager at the wilderness society. What's happening in the country's parks. Amy. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. The national parks are kind of one of the main ways that the public interacts with their government. It's from the parks to the national forests, and and, you know, local communities and right now, I think we're seeing a lot of resource damage a lot of unsafe conditions, and we're really hoping that the president will move to reopen. The government, you know, quickly and and get our parks back in safe condition and really protecting our resources. So there have been what seven deaths in the national park since the shutdown began this unusual. The parks are always a natural place. There can be risks. But, but you know, I think some of the some of the deaths are likely preventable. But it's hard to know without having the staff there to do the research without having the staff there to file reports. We'll probably learn more exactly about what happened in those instances later, but you know, regardless of actual deaths. I think we're seeing reports out of say Joshua tree national park where folks were making their own roads, cutting down the landmark Joshua trees that are kind of this staple of that park in Yosemite trash along the sides of the roads and people when you have no one to take entrance fees or guide people as they're coming in. You know, folks, well-meaning or or not or just kind of unknowing of how to interact in the parks tend to tend to go kind of run amok. And so I think were hoping that the shutdown in soon, and and that the resource can be protected because it's rough situation. Border wall, a border wall between US and Mexico mean for the fragile ecosystem there. Yeah. A lot of people don't understand that, you know, along our southern border are really wild places, really important. You know, ecosystems that have, you know, hundreds of endangered species thousands of very special types of of animals and wildlife, and you know, a border wall would mean a lack of the ability for these animals too. Move amongst the ecosystem and be able to have genetic diversity within their within their, gene pool. It would mean impacts to the inability for a lot of these animals to find water in kind of a, you know, a very dry environment. So what have really negative impacts on a lot of very important species from endangered pronghorns antelope to Jaguars that are making their way back after after some some challenges in in their their systems. So it's it would be very damaging to the the environment as well as you know. It just being kind of a waste of money. And finally the five point seven billion dollars. Trump is demanding for the border wall. What would it look like if that went to conservation efforts into wilderness to parks in this country, or even fraction of it? Absolutely. One of the great ironies, I think with all of this is that the Trump administration has taken it upon themselves to promote the park maintenance backlog, as one of the one of the conservation ish ideas that they could get behind, and you know, our parks have been loved to death for so long that they they face about a twelve billion dollar backlog in in maintenance fees and maintenance projects that congress hasn't and the administration hasn't funded for for quite a long time. And so five billion dollars would go a long way towards fixing the digging out of the hole that. We're already in with taking care of our national parks. Not to mention the fact that all of this damage being done to our parks and public lands generally national forest. Beal lands at cetera. That's gonna take us a while to to from a budgetary perspective. And so I think for those folks who do care about how government resources are are used. You know, this is not only bad policy, but it's it's a waste of money. President Trump just once again threatened to cut off federal funds to fight California wildfire saying the money's being wasted. Your response yet. Complete ignorance with how force policy works with how forced ecosystems work, you know. You know, the reality is with this shutdown one of the primary times for our forest service and firefighters in and the associated companies that that you know, that work with them right now is the time that they plan for the upcoming fire season. It's when they do their training when they write contracts for for equipment for for for fighting forest. Fires and they're not able to do that. There are examples in California specifically where projects are being put on hold mitigation projects that would help alleviate concerns for the upcoming fire season. In a lot of these entities already are dealing with longer. Firefighting seasons and shorter periods of time to plan. So this is eating into on already very small window that they have to prepare for an upcoming likely, you know, rough fire season again as we've seen increasingly bad over the years with. Climate change Jonathan Asher. Thank you for being with us government relations manager with the wilderness society and Robert Weisman, president of Public Citizen will link to your report at Public Citizen is shutdown drags on agencies devoted to consumer and work our health and safety unfunded and deep prioritized when we come back young woman raped at sixteen who killed her rapist is going to be freed from prison by the Tennessee governor stay with us. You. Lady Gaga singing till it happens to you joined by sexual assault survivors on the stage at the Oscars in two thousand sixteen lady Gaga apologized Wednesday for collaborating with our Kelly on the two thousand thirteen single do what you want with my body. This comes as prosecutors Atlanta and Chicago considering bringing charges against R Kelly after an explosive docu series aired on lifetime TV chronicling years of sexual abuse domestic violence and misconduct allegations lady Gaga herself is a survivor of sexual assault. She says she'll remove her single with our Kelly from streaming services like Spotify. This is democracy. Now, I made me Goodman, as we turn to the story of sin Toya Brown who on Monday was granted full clemency by Republican Tennessee governor Bill Haslam after serving fifteen years in person, the decision follows months of intense public pressure and outrage over her case Brown was sentenced to life in prison after being convicted of first degree murder for shooting her rapist as a teenager. She had been sexually trafficked repeatedly abused drugged the shooting happened when Brown was just sixteen years old. But she was tried nece. Don't this isn't Toya Brown. Speaking at our clemency hearing in may. It's been a very long time. And. When I was sixteen. I didn't. In have carried that with me this whole time. Always hear people say like if I could go back and change things. But when you really realize that you've done something can't undo. Like, it states, and it stayed with me that's whole, Tom. People here today that like are there hurting now fourteen years later, they've been hurting for fourteen years, and I did that. And. Can't picks. It. I can't fix like had to change because I could not live with myself being the site in person that did that I can do that. I face that. I can't make what did that they've chance to so much more. You know, I've been able to help people amazing young people young kids. Listen in. I'm still going to try to help people still him because it's something that people need to understand that something people need to know. There's so many things that I've actually now that I didn't know, and there's so many young people that still don't know. And I called to share that. And. Whatever you decide Everson did. But I do private you show me Marsin that you get music contains that is my prayer, and I can assure each and everyone view that if you do like a walk disappoint you. I'm not gonna let you down sinto Brown. Her attorney Houston, Gordon addressed reporters shortly after Brown was granted clemency Monday. Her story is a story that should be a catalyst for a lot of others. Thousands of other juvenile's we need to see this as an national waken to change the county and laws that allow juvenile's children to be placed in adult prison over the years in Toyo Brown's case to widespread attention on social media under the hash tag free, send Toyo Brown popstar riana wrote something horror. Ably wrong when the system enables these rapists, and the victim is thrown away for life. PBS independent lens featured Brown story and its series sentencing. Children. This is a clip of then sixteen year old son Toyo Brown being interrogated by assistant district attorney Jeff Burks during juvenile court hearing. If you try to leave arm. And you, but you believe in that is based on the fact that he told you get some dons and he's a short. Not only that. But the way we'll only that. We know is that the food took you home you used as bathroom those notable doing that you ate with it you that you settled couch. One teeny would do that you got a bed and at least one time to sleep while he was. He just Grammy. Like and to Molly. He just grabbed there were you just gave me this look like a fierce, look, and I just sent these chills mice fine. I'm thinking me or do something like it. But then he rose over and reaches like, he's reaching to side of the bed or something. So I'm thinking he's not gonna hit me. He's been a gun and want to do that. I just grab begun in our shot that which Sinn Toya Brown at sixteen. She's now thirty years old set to be released an August for more. We're joined by Mariam Kaba, organize your educator who's worked on anti domestic violence programs as well as anti Carson racial Justice program since the late eighties. She's the co founder of survived in punished an organization that supports survivors of violence who've been criminalised for defending themselves aboard member of critical resistance Mariam Kaba. Welcome to buckle. She now. Thanks for having me talk about what has taken place in this case in the significance of the Republican governor of Tennessee granting her clemency. How did this happen while I think it's important to note that since has been surrounded by support team of people for at least the past decade in the beginning. She had a very kind of proactive lawyer who was very supportive of her and has become a lifelong friend and continues to support her her her subsequent lawyers where people also who really fought for her to to try to make sure that she wouldn't end up with a life sentence. She has had community members family people who've kept her story and her name alive for all of these years. So I think I want to you know, kind of make sure people understand that this didn't come out of nowhere. And that people have been fighting on her behalf for almost as long as she's been incarcerated. It was recently with in two thousand seventeen of last year you Mench. Riana and Kim Kardashian posting stuff on Instagram, which got more people to know her case in the modern era. Most people actually still thought she was sixteen and most people also thought hit just happened. Well, let's back for a moment. Yeah. What did happen happen to sin Toya, well, sin Toya in two thousand and four scenario was sixteen years old? She was picked up for sex by a forty three year old man named Johnny Allen who took her to his house and sin Toya says that when she got there first he was haggling her for money about the money. Secondly, he showed her a bunch of guns that he had in his possession Thirdly as you heard in the tape before she was worried because he was acting what she felt was strange and when he leaned over on his bed. She he she he had showed her some guns under his bed. She thought that he was going for a gun and yet he was going to harm her. She had a gun that had been given to her by her pimp a guy named cutthroat. Who she'd been living without a motel from the time. She was about fifteen years old because she'd run away from home at that point. And she used the gun that had been given to her for protection to shoot this, man. And he ended up dying. Let me go to a clip another clip from the film me facing. Life's in Toy Story, which aired on PBS independent lens in this clips and Toya's questioned about her trafficker. Guy. What's his room? So how long were you live in? Thanks. So what was the only? I. These. He was a joke. What else did he do? Boom. Have you ever have sex with the guys? Did he that he have sex with you too? Communicate with him. I'm not having money. He wasn't rights. Only kim. He does. Tones. That's annoying and me facing life's and Toya story which aired on PBS independent lens take it from there. So she ends up going to trial two years after her arrest in two thousand and four and they decide that they're going to try her. She was juvenile at the time that this happened and that they would try her as an adult. I think some things that people probably know intuitively is that black children. Don't get to be children. There's a kind of adult affiliation of children, particularly black children and children of color. So sin Toya at sixteen wasn't seen as a young person. She was seen as an adult already, basically. And they put her on trial as an adult. She ended up getting convicted. And she ended up getting convicted her sentence was life in prison. So you could imagine the shock to the system of somebody who has basically been sexually course, turn tire life who had a run away. So she was already precarious defended herself against somebody. Who basically if nothing else was doing Salvatori rate. He was forty three. She was sixteen years old, and she ends up and in situation where she has got to figure out and she's going to, you know, take potentially put herself at risk of dying or. If she's going to take action she chooses to take action she's punished for it. So she she's punished basically for survival. Yeah. Do you think our case would have ended up differently? If she was white and her us was block. I mean, it's hard to know about these things I will say this black people in this country. Have traditionally historically been punished for any perceived transcript transgression, and so and punish more excessively than white people. But if you wanna make a point that I think is important, which is that we have a mass incarceration problem in this country that whole that basically also sweeps in a bunch of poor white people. So, you know, while while black people are disproportionately targeted by the system. White people are pulled into the system as well. So what we have is a mass criminalization mass incarceration problem. I think we're going to have to do some work to dismantle they'll so sin. Toya Brown was sentenced to life in prison. He was she has served what she will serve fifteen years for her relief in Hong, that's right ex-. And you've talked about the support. She's head the all the time. She's been in prison. But what force the Republican Tennessee governor has lem to grant clemency. And were you surprised when he did? I wasn't surprised that he no because I'm an organizer when people mobilize in put pressure on targets we can win. And I think what happened was that the supreme court in Tennessee in early December came back of helds decision to say that. In fact, he wasn't going to ever be able to be paroled before serving fifty one years in prison. So that she would have gotten out of prison had a chance to get out of prison and going front of parole board at the age of sixty seven and that particular supreme court's decision in Tennessee is what galvanize this latest version of a mobilization on her behalf. So people were like, wait a minute. First of all, this is unjust that she spent one day in prison. Secondly, they're going to have her spend fifty one years in prison before she even gets a chance for. Second chance this is unacceptable. And at that point, a group of different groups all around the country came together with a targeted effort to go. After that that included groups like Nashville color of change, the Highlander center that some of those three two of those three are based in Tennessee. So it made sense that they would kind of push. I want to bring up the fact that, you know, a lot of people on social media got involved and started making phone calls at one point. My understanding was that the governor's office was getting six thousand calls in a day. That's, you know, unprecedented. Unheard of they have to like switch over their lines to another line hold together in order to keep up with amount of people that were pushing for her to get out. So. Reaction. Well, my understanding was that she put out a statement at the end of that she was really thankful for people's support. I think she's I'm sure she's absolutely thrilled to be able to be released from prison you've called her act radical act of self love explained. Well, I think that in this culture where black lives are incredibly devalued where we are in a position of always having to defend our very existence that to insist that you deserve to live by any means necessary is inactive radical self love absolately believe that that's the case. I do want to say something though that I think is very important right now for people who are really in the moment very excited about this. It is very good that she's out of prison. I think people should know that she's being released into supervise parole, which she's going to be on for ten years. That's a decade, which means she's going to have spent twenty five years of her very. A young life in under state supervision for those people who don't know parole is extremely extremely restrictive. They're gonna give a whole set of conditions, which mostly be arbitrary. If she violates any of those conditions. They could violate her right back to prison. She's going to be spending ten years, basically on pins and needles making sure that nothing goes wrong missing missing any sort of parole. You know, meetings ending up going somewhere that she wasn't supposed to go by accident those things violate you. And so she's going to have to be very careful for the next ten years that she doesn't get violated back. So she's not one hundred percent free. And I think that's something people should pay attention to you. You have traced the treatment of black woman who dared to fend themselves back to slavery. Right. Yeah. Up least. Yeah. I mean in this country coming to this country as chattel so property not person we as black women. In particular were continuously subjected to sexual violence with no recourse, absolute impunity. I wrote a piece for the guardian last week that talked about the story of enslave young woman named Celia who fought back against her master who was also her rapist killing him, and she went to trial. She had very vigorous defences eighteen fifty five in Missouri, and the court found that she was property not person therefore could not be raped, and they ended up executing her in in December of eighteen eighteen fifty five, and I think a lot about that. Because it it shows something about black women having no selves worth defending having no selves worth being seen as valuable enough that you can have bodily autonomy really important how many sin Toyota Browns are invalid soms Dr thousands of sin Toyo Browns in prison. I think I wanna also make the point that overwhelmingly. Especially when you look at women's prisons, the overwhelming majority up to ninety percent of the people in there have had histories of sexual and physical violence prior to ending up in prison. What there's a wonderful activists, formerly incarcerated survivor herself named Susan Burton who talks about the fact that what we do is incarcerate trauma when we incarcerate women, and when we incarcerate gender, non conforming people. So there are thousands of civilians, and I think we should really pay attention to the fact that we should be fighting for all of those to be free. And that this example of a governor doing commutations shows how much power the executive has to actually free people, and we are in a state in New York where we have a governor who's probably one of the most merciless governors. We have who almost never commutes anybody sentence, and we have close to fifty thousand people locked up in our state here in New York, supposedly progressive haven, right? And he has commuted nineteen sentences in eight years. Nineteenth. And one of those was a domestic violence criminalized survivor. That's unacceptable. So if people have energy as a result of sin Toya's case, I'm excited about that. But I want people to channel that energy into fighting in your own state and figuring out how we're gonna free all criminalized survivors of Cobb. I want to thank you so much for being with us organizer educator who's worked anti-domestic violence programs as well as anti incarceration, racial Justice program. She's the co founder of survived and punished the ses democracy now when we come back could fifty thousand Haitians who fled the earthquake nine years ago this week be about to be deported. Stay with us. Channel. Them. That's that's shit. So the. And it's. Hey. Dad? That's got Izzo. It's got his. This yet snow? The league wins being empty. Three. Bliss. It's. That's is. So. Not so. God bless the child Billie holiday, and Tony Scott miss orchestra. This is democracy. Now, we end today show with a New York City trial currently underway challenging the Trump administration's attempt to end temporary protected status known as TPS for more than fifty thousand Haitians living in the US. Tens of thousands of patients were granted TPS after an earthquake devastated Haiti nine years ago this week in November two thousand seventeen the Trump administration announced it would revoke TPS for Haitian sparking protests multiple lawsuits around the country. The trial's expected to go into closing arguments today for more we're joined by Marlene bus skin, executive director of the family action network movement or fun one of the plaintiffs in the lawsuit. She testified Wednesday as a witness in the trial. Welcome back to demolish. Now. It's great to have you live in studio here in New York. You're usually in Miami where we talked to you. What's happening right now or fifty thousand Haitians threatened with deportation. The. And that is why we are in court this week to show and demonstrate that the Trump's administration decision to terminate TBS was based on animus and not on conditions in country conditions in Haiti and that when you say, animus humane, hate racism and xenophobia toward immediate of color Brown and Brown reckon Brown immigrants and also the immigrants from Central America and Africa last year. President Trump reportedly told lawmakers that hey deal Salvador and unspecified African nations where s whole countries, but he used the word and in two thousand seventeen he said that recent immigrants from heyday, quote all have aids he did say that he did say that. And that is why we we we are in court to the judge to restore. Wool of law. And so that these fifty thousand Haitians I'm Elise hu deeply rooted in communities. They have twenty seven thousand years children among among them. They are teachers doctors or nurses. They are all or church friends that they are able to stay what do you say to people who say TPS is temporary protective status temporary Maine's temporary talk about what they would face if they were deported to hate employments emperor in as much as the conditions improved. TPS has been terminated before. If the conditions the incomplete conditions warrant, munition it. It's been done before the right now, we know hate it, you still reeling under the worst crisis natural crisis in modern history. An earthquake that killed people even the US, which is the worst powerful nation in the world. It takes years full, Katrina, for example, to recover fee. See my still in interview. Eating and helping families in in in Orleans. So when we talk about Haiti is smallish in and we're talking about such the breath of the destruction. We know that it's still recovering. We'll have the corner outbreak on the a few months after the the. Unit or two dozen sixteenth. You have Ricken Matthew, which cuisine destroyed him dire. South bend Sula, which is considered the breast by scuttle Haiti that's where most of the crops grown. So we also we've also witnessed in the past few weeks, the the instability political instability worsening everyday, including a reset massacre that is still being investigated right now. And then during the hurricane nine years ago three hundred thousand people estimated died and heyday indeed. So what are you calling for right? We all calling for a reinstatement of temporary protected status. Because when we got the the the the earthquake when we look at a cholera outbreak. When we look at hurricane Matthew each could qualify hates for a redesigned vision of tippy s today Haiti qualifies today, so we're going to remove people will gainfully employed. What? Employers important people while homeowners what parents will go to sip Redan from their from their children. So we ask him for reinstatement, and we also asking congress to find a permanent solution. So that this hard working individuals while contributing so much being taxes investing to put that they won't even be able to to use if they're becoming capacity. I know people if we realize that are working Bank axes. Yes, they're not qualified for any benefits any resources, even though they become incapacitated. So we will certainly continue to cover the story Marlene bounced Yan executive director fan the family action network movement. And that does it for our broadcast action produced by Mike birthday. And the governor me shake Carla wills are now sent out John Karen, many mistakes.

President Trump president Sinn Toya Brown government Trump administration US federal government Tennessee Amy Goodman Robert Weisman Public Citizen New York congress New York City Nancy Pelosi White House FDA
Why Do We Put Up With This?

Native Opinion Podcast an American Indian Perspective

1:57:04 hr | 1 year ago

Why Do We Put Up With This?

"Uh-huh. Two. There was a d. Play one day everybody, you have reached native opinion. We are an indigenous information and education radio show and podcast every single week. We talk about current affairs related to and from our own native American perspectives. My name is Michael kicking bear. And I'm kind of flying solo today because Dave had a prior commitment and a good one at that a few weeks ago guys might remember he he mentioned that he was training gymnast. And I guess they have a meet today. So we're hoping wishing well to her and she has Olympic aspirations. So so, obviously, it's very very important to her and important, Dave, you know, and they're out there doing their thing. So so we wish them well, and Dave will be back with this next week. So it will just be me today. So hopefully, you can put up. With that. Appreciate it very very much. So, but we'll see as we always like to do every single week. We talk about how to reach us here on the show. If you have heard anything in this episode or passed up association, you wanna reach us just you can Email us at hosts with an S hosts that native opinion dot com. Our Twitter handle, of course, on social media. It's at native opinion over there or you can visit our Facebook page. It's Facebook dot com forward slash native opinion, podcast, a website, of course, native opinion dot com, or episodes, also publish out to YouTube. So you can grab us there as well. And we're also a podcast. Therefore, if you visit any of our the major podcast directories such as a apple podcast, Google podcast, Stitcher Spotify. Iheart radio all those guys. You can find there and just subscribing you'll get that delivered to you every single week automatically really really cool. And also, you can leave us a voicemail that way if you wish it's eight six zero eight hundred five five nine five it's eight hundred five nine five we broadcast live every single Saturday morning starting at nine AM eastern. And so our chat room is open. If you guys would like to come in and. Hang with us or me, at least this particular week. We'd love it. We love it very much in Dave just walked into the room here. David halloo. He's in Japan. Everybody way out there. So. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Here in the United States today is groundhog day. Yeah. I woke up this morning. You know, I kick on generally CBS news in the morning, and there was the whole spectacle, which I don't understand. I don't I don't understand it at all. For those not familiar. Okay. Let me see if I can summarize this without having without having audio present or anything like that. So basically somewhere in Pennsylvania. I guess there's a town called punks, Tony if I'm saying that correctly, and they have a hedgehog, I guess that. That they keep a fake wooden trunk. What a lot I'm not even kidding. I'm I am sort of. I mean, I don't think as not there all year. But but basically. I'm going to call it the way I see it. It's a colonial tradition. Okay. So the principles that I guess our we'll call them the masters of ceremony are dressed in colonial garb. All right. A top hat, and at least this morning there looked like there had to be two thousand people there. Okay. And whole premise of this event is basically that they read from a scroll K, hence again colonialistic. Then they basically wake this groundhog up. And the whole tradition is if the groundhog. Sees shadow winter continues. I hope I have this right? If the groundhog does not see at shadow spring is coming early. That's the whole premise. I don't get it. Maybe somebody can maybe if somebody lives in Pennsylvania. They can help me understand. I know it's all in fun and stuff like that. I just don't understand it. So and so would they do is they basically unlocked this walk? They reach into this fake, log, maybe three log, I don't know. And they pull this guy out, hence, waking him up apparently. And then. If you've ever seen like The Lion King the movie, you know, how they held up. The cub Simba. That's what they do. This groundhog behold it up for everybody and everybody here. Yeah. Okay. We got we will get up this morning almost got away though. You heard this guy's like like, you know, and they got it before it could run away. I would be scared to. I mean, there's like sixty dude standing there and top hats. Okay. But it's like this thing tries to run away. The scoop it back up, and then they pretend to have this one individual pretends to have a conversation with it says, presumably, the president of the United States and other people that have deemed him with this ability. If he only holds, okay, the only you can go out on you can find this. If you think I'm kidding. He can apparently have this conversation with his groundhog. If he has this magic eighteen ladies and gentlemen, is my honor to wake up Phil this morning and speak with him carrying a cane. It's been passed out for president the president. It's a cane it gives us gives me and former presidents the power to speaking groundhog us. So if I do not have this cane in my head, I cannot talk with Phil. But I do have the cane. So we're going to talk with Phil. Sleeping right now. So we have to wake him up. And how do we wake up feel by announcing his name? Concerns here, buddy. And basically whispers to this thing while everybody is really silent. Of course, you know, there's probably still people lingering from partying Friday night. And so there's still people out you're shouting and screaming stuff like feel because the things they have a name for it. I forgot to mention that to it's punks. Tony, phil. That's what they named the groundhog. Okay. And punts Tony fill apparently never gets old because it's the same one. Okay. They pull it out every single year. And I'm like, all right. I'm trying to understand this. There was a great movie, by the way, but with Bill miracle groundhog how you know his life repeats itself over and over and over again, it's really anyway, it's sort of based on this this whole story and premise, so you know, the guy has a pretend conversation with it. And and then this other guy breeds hands him a scroll, which presumably this. This groundhog has written itself. And and proceeds to give its prediction. I just read this. Okay. Here you hear you hear. Ye now the second day of February two thousand nineteen the one hundred thirty third annual track of the Punxsutawney groundhog club punks, Tony fill the seer of seers prognosticator of all prognosticators was awakened from his borough to the years of his thousands of faithful followers. Groundhog as Phil directed the president and the inner circle to his prediction, scroll, which reads down in my borough on long winter nights. I listen to tunes to keep my mind, right? From Motown to country to rap even Bach. There's a wreath in Elvis. Yeah. The beatles. Rock and your cheers at the knob. Really give me a throw everyone singing to the word world. Phil Phil, Phil. But predicting the weather that's my song for one hundred thirty three years. I've never been wrong. So is an early spring or more winner for cast stop the music. Here is my forecast faithful followers there is no shadow of me a beautiful spring. It's. Apparently, we're going to have a. Spring sooner. So apparently, do I see it. Tony must've called up the local like news affiliate. And had a conversation with the meteorologist and like, okay. I've got under pressure. Dude. I've gotta like gotta give like my prediction helped me out. It's like. It's it's just another ridiculous. Like colonialistic thing that I guess people don't mind getting out in seven degree weather to determine their winter fate by by a hamster. I don't know. I don't know. But anyway, anybody wants to add to that let me know because I'm just I'm just trying to figure it out. But anyway, groundhog day. There you go it happened. I guess we're all going to get warmer sooner. You know on a more realistic front. I'm I'm kind of dealing with a cold actually took the last two days off from work because I think honestly, it's the it is the weather. Because it it's it's been like like last weekend single digits with wind chill. It was like it felt more like twenty below zero. And then it came up to something like forty degrees. And then it leveled off for a normal winter weather, then it plummeted again to another like zero degrees. And now we're told next week. It's going to be like fifty degrees. So. Boy sounds weird. That's probably why it's just it's just out of control, the weather will not stabilise. I just need normalcy. I don't know about you guys. But I need normalcy. Like, it's like okay now it's winter now it's summer. Now. It's you know, that kind of stuff, but so far it's just like most people, I guess our bodies are just under constant attack. All right. So let's see. We have some listener feedback. We always loved that everything week to do this. So this came in actually both of these this week came in through Facebook. And this is from listener BC who wrote hey guys just wanted to. Thank you for everything that you do as an indigenous man forced by economic circumstance to be displaced from my family, and my home your show keeps me plugged in to the struggle. Thanks for being voices. Amongst the colonists noise. I guess I guess I disappointed them. With my rant this morning. But anyway, I just I just don't understand certain colonial practices, shall we say. But thank you very much. Appreciate that. Yeah. I mean, I mean, you know, we're. We're doing delicate balance here on the show, I guess trying to keep some some positive news against what seems like a tirade of really really horribly bad stuff bad practices going on there against indigenous people and people color in general kinda rough. So, you know, but but Sam glancing chat, Dave just wrote. I've always thought that it was a ridiculous. I'm assuming he means tradition. Yeah. I just I just I mean, okay. A reason to party how about that. Well, just some of the hole puncher Tony fill thing as a reason to party in the morning and in the cold. But anyway, all right. And let's see listener tau road in also on Facebook and wrote their Michael David, I am a native Chinese who moved to USA a few years ago. My hunger for native American culture, brought me to your podcast. I will catch up with all the previous episodes in the near future. I'm not sure how powerful and helpful. I can be no I feel my duty to pass on information. I learned from you all to my friends and neighbors, by the way, I live in upstate New York in Watertown, or it is close to six nations, the showcase of native culture, New York's the New York state fair in Syracuse is very well organized and informative but always feel residents mainly. Caucasian maybe over eighty five percent don't know much about native American history and culture at all. Yeah. Sadly, that's very that's sadly, true nationwide as well. There's a. There's there's what we call a big missing element. We we talk about this almost every week public schools outside of say thanksgiving barely barely talk about native Americans in the context of American history at all. And and so we are either positioned as extinct or sort of like the way you would view something in a museum is is very very sad. You know, you don't really get an exposure to anything to do with native American history again in the context of the United States until maybe you enter college, and then even even then it's sort of on voluntary basis. You know, it's not it's unless you're specifically going into native American studies program or or something related to that. You don't you don't get exposure to really much of anything, and then even that exposure is questionable as to its sources because. They also fail. In many cases to hire indigenous educators, you know to to. More importantly lead that type of curriculum. But you know, once in a blue moon, they'll which I find personally insulting they'll invite indigenous educators in like as a guest speaker. Oh, thank you very much the class, and then Aleve, and and and you know, I I just fail to understand. Why these these types of programs are continuously not led by indigenous people just bothers me so going on here. He says it is through the the documentary movie that learnt how white people robbed the Black River from native American tribes. And how they started and continued the mistreatment and and also through the film, quote keeper of the game, which is free on Netflix. He writes now keep the game. I I've seen not it's actually about lacrosse, and I sort of put together a quick little trailer. I guess you could say. So here's a little bit of that from that series. Everything has purpose of. Can go pick a tree you don't just cut it out. Where we got a dog we give thanks. Trees it was like. Lacrosse. What time percent of cross shreds? Job wasn't house netting. Sticks the five to split. Are people giving a gift from trader? Medicine. He'll be. Gift cross. Steph worth checking out and what add to to that is. Lacrosse is. Generally seen as a sport created by the French. And in fact, that is not true. And you know, despite French influence in particular in Canada, it's sort of has gotten. You know, misguided if you will not misguided, but the the true origins lacrosse, actually, come as as an indigenous game, and that isn't often or often enough talked about in a history in that film. Does very good job rectifying that and in here actually in Connecticut too. I might mention that there is the the who he can try who are very very close relatives to my my own people the peak watts because we actually were all when people at one point have gone ahead, and they actually fund in support a professional lacrosse team called the black wolves which are doing quite well from what I understand. So they're trying to elevate the sport. And keeping of course with true tradition ties. You know, they have a drum dance ceremony at the beginning of every game. And you know, it's it's a very good. I'm glad to see that that. That continue so era here in Connecticut. And you want to check out a one of their games go to Mohegan sun in the league in trouble nation, and you can see a game there. It's very very cool Saito continues here, he says learnt, how native American people adopted the culture and pass it on with modern twist another a lot of pressure and challenges with government administration. But you and your hard work will bring people hope and passion. Thank you very much. We we appreciate that. We we we try. But again, it's not just we are basically putting forth the hard work of other people journalists in particular. So we always want to make sure people are aware that you know, the information that would provide on the show or not written by ourselves written by other people, and it's very important that people understand that and understand that these folks do this work on a daily basis and work very hard at at the research. And everything else. So, but we do thank you for for that knowledge -ment. And again, he says now you have one more person to stand by your side. Thank you all have a good day. PS? Is there any podcast or material suggestions for me to study native American music, thanks to advance. Yes. Actually, the the number one source here in the United States. I would I would say at this point is still going to be the native American music awards in their website. You can either try to type in horrendously long bunch of Texaco native American music awards dot com or to shorten it. Nama dot com. That's N A M A actually sorry. I'll take that back. Nama live N A M A L I V E live dot com. It's the native American music association. I've been affiliated with them now for going on eighteen years, and in you know, you can every single. Award show the winners and their and their music is on that site. You can you can definitely find out more about each of the artists, and we try to have future at least one artist every single episode here on this show. We also point out our media resources page on our website native, opinion dot com slash media resources. And there's other broadcasts that you can listen to besides the show there and many times feature music as well. And and also highlight interview artists, so which we're hoping to do more this year actually just up in our game. If you will in interviews, but also artists as well. I am thinking very long and hard about resurrecting show that I used to do in the nineties called indigenous peoples music that was all I focused on was was a native American music and the artists behind that. So I had long wanted to make that a a sort of like a video magazine kind of show. But it requires a lot of work, and I didn't wanna do it to have asked you. Well, so thinking very hard about bringing that back a very minimal back as a radio show away used to have it because I still think it's it's needed or artists. Simply still still like indigenous people in general, there are tend to be rather invisible. Still and it's kinda sad. But but I have seen some hope in that area as well on. There's a lot of really cool collaborations with mainstream artists that I've been seeing happening over the over the last few years. So I hope that continues and the native American music awards is is a place of recognition for those artists and in their incredible talent. So please if you guys want to check that out. It's a great resource. I you know, I really recommend it. So all right. Let's see. Dave. I wanna welcome cliff. Also looks like cliff just made it into chat and keep trying to glance back up. Here you guys. My my council is kinda strange when it comes to the chat room. I can't I can't go. I can't go backwards in it for some reason. Spreaker hasn't really fixed that Dave wrote here Indian country today another source that we go to constantly just posted an editorial offering advice to non-indigenous instructors of native studies. The author raises many of the points. You have brought up in past up Assode, at least the ones that. I've heard he says they need provides a link I'll try to copy that day. But I think I can grab it from the tra- player side. We can put that in our and our Facebook page, but yeah, yeah, it's long been known that colleges in the United States, but not just colleges at least at the high school level. You know, there's no introduction to to to native people are contribution. Than the true history. Of of the United States know what actually transpired here. To make this country actually possible. You know, typically, all you hear is, you know, negativity around the front of, you know, our lands being stolen, and that's actually absolutely true. But you know, when I when I say more, I'm talking about the actual murders. Genocide attempts in some cases, actual compliments of genocides of entire nations of people just to make this country possible. And it is something that you know, because of how. Yes negative, but you know, negative truth. Okay. The university is education institutions, and I grant you you have to you have to apply, you know, content to the right age group. You know what? I mean, you're not gonna sit down a bunch of elementary school kids and go, you know, what? I mean, I want to produce you to a bunch of death. You know, I I totally knowledge that, but but at the same time to not acknowledge it in many cases at all is an excusable because as as kids get older, they can they can adapt in handle more and includes truth, and this is an area that you know, we continuously tried to put forward to to educators in in school systems in school superintendents that you can't try from the truth. And you know, we're just gonna keep rallying that that same message. So. All right. So let's see we're going to get into. News articles now and just keep the truck rolling. I always say, it's really we're not all even go. As far saying almost uncomfortable for me to do this without Dave. But you know, I mean, I myself personally, I've been you know, broadcasting on and off for many many years, but I David I birth the show together, you know, what I mean, it was it was a joint idea when I do it by myself, it just feels weird and awkward so so if I if I'm projecting that policies, but it's just kind of like weird and hard to do. So, but but we always want to keep things moving. So. I'll be much more comfortable in Dave's back next week. So. So let's see so up first here title of this article, which comes again outta ending country today, as we mentioned David mentioned moment ago, the Dave and chat so out of Indian country today news this title, reads, Europeans, acknowledge native American holocaust with series events. Now. That's interesting actually, and this was not delivered. I promise you. That I read this coming off of my previous statements. Excuse me. I'm gonna go because you know, why is it efforts can be made outside of the borders the United States in this area, but but within the country itself. I mean, just ask you ask yourself that logic makes any sense to you. Okay. Why would knowledge -ment of nigger America, holocaust genocide or call it what you will how how can that happen on the outside of this country, but not within the United States goes right along with. The United States being second to last. I believe if not Lao dead last to sign the declaration of indigenous peoples through the UN United Nations, you know, why? And the number one reason for this laser gentlemen is simply that it's an embarrassment to this country, which should be. But only they the descendants of the colonizers can correct that. And today there's been very very little done in that space. So but the title again reads here Europeans, acknowledged native American holocaust would would would the series of events. And there's actually a music video which I didn't pull up because after watching it. It's very visual. Obviously, you know, the music is calling a variety of different native artists are in it. So we'll post that in our on our Facebook page. So you guys can see it. But the article here reads week long series of native American holocaust events, taking place in Switzerland. For holocaust remembrance twenty nineteen every year the association's on Thiessen isse, I'm probably butchering these names delegate. In insect. Nettie the story which translates as the Swiss association of history teachers dedicate dedicates, the European international holocaust remembrance day or day of memory as it's often referred to in Europe to a different case of genocide this year, their focus is on indigenous genocide in North America. And I saw them for that. I really really do going on here says Swiss history teachers Massimo cheer, you teeny looks like and Marie zero Banagas are the organizers that says the week long series of events in Switzerland, exploring, the native American holocaust began whether screening and discussion of bury my heart wounded knee on January twenty seventh the events will be facilitated by a Gola Lakota siblings. Nineteen year old. Nina and seventeen year old Nolan Burg Lind of the Minneapolis based indigenous youth ceremony mentoring society, and Dr neyla Clarice professor of history of the indigenous peoples of America at the university of of D-I-N-O-V-I-T-E in Italy and founder of the nonprofit Cultural Organization, so no 'cause in Khamidov in Italy. Program highlights. Let's see seeing here in this. Some of these dates, unfortunately are now past tense, actually, I'll skip over those. But they had a series events on the twenty seventh and thirty first and Monday January twenty eighth through yesterday. Actually, actually, I'll read these. So, you know, it's new so you guys know that it took place on the twenty seventh. Bury my heart wounded knee screening. We are unarmed and the doctrine of of and the doctrine documentary trailers, Mike Wendling Cates will also be shown Nina Knollenberg Lind and nyala clear will introduce themselves and present the program of the week then on Thursday, January thirty first Electra for the public took place says why the world has forgotten the genocide of native Americans in quote, Dr neyla clearly see will also offer. A historical perspective talk about stereotypes and explained the debate about genocide among scholars that sounds very interesting. We need more that here, actually. I. My present position ideal awful lot with. Maybe not so much scholars, but definitely people from the from the education communities, shall we say? And I still find it there. Just just a lack of knowledge for people that are so in in in depth inside of education institutions, and yet, you know, they have no clue about us. So. Neil no-one Bergen. Oh, golly. Lakota? We'll talk about their personal experience and their involvement, and what is going on in ending country. My hat's off to them. Awesome. And yesterday, Nina Noland and Dr clear EC met with students of three high schools and the students of two middle schools and professor gave a PowerPoint presentation an introduction about the history of native Americans in the United States and Canada. So for nations were were also included which is great. And the debate of various scholars about genocide Nina Noland, talked about themselves and the indigenous used ceremony mentoring society. They might also explain how they prepared to speak to Vatican officials in Rome about abolishing the doctrine of discovery how perfect that would that. Would that would be historic? Which which would be fantastic if that were abolished officially by the church for sure. If time permits they will also there also be a discussion about what is going on in Indian country today along with Q and A session. So this year's holocaust remembrance program came about through the friendship between professor and Mitch walking elk mentor of the indigenous youth ceremony mentoring program areas. Been group receives organization as organized various cultural events with walking during the years, the indigenous youth, ceremonial mentoring group also works to revive culture, and spirituality known history and stand for present day, urgent issues in any country, professor clearly explained to ending country today via an Email, quote, the idea that the Swiss students should meet some native Americans of their age. And no from them what it is like to be a native and what's going on in ending country end quote yet. I mean, that's that's absolutely see that. That's exactly what I'm talking about as not happening necessarily. At the college levels crazy as that sounds. I mean, you know, if people send me letters of examples where where it hasn't. That's fantastic. But I'm talking on a consistent basis. All right. You're not seeing this type of interaction often enough. So if hopefully if I'm if I'm explaining that correctly. So this article goes on of quite a bit. And so this link will be in the shown out. So I really really really encourage you guys to to read the rest of that. It sounds fantastic. Very glad that that took place in Switzerland on very very important. I've one of my cousins. Actually, dating someone. He he visits Switzerland, quite often she lives there. And I don't think she's been able to come back to the states just yet. But but there there there's bene- fascination for a long time in Europe about our cultures and questions a low wage so many questions all the time about why did this happen? Why did this? We've heard this about the United States, and you know. And I it's hard because you know, we call it part of our historical trauma and things that are that are not going to, you know, go anytime soon. Because there's constant reminders. Why we have arguments, for example, about, you know, mass Katrina in this country. It's it's it's a sad reminder that does not go away, and that we want it to, but until this country wakes up and does more than just acknowledged the existence of the people is country. Sadly, this is gonna be cyclical it's going to continue. So. All right. This next article. I pulled up I'll have a bit of a rant on. So we're going to change subjects here. Just slightly title here. Reads from National Geographic dot com. In an unprecedented discovery archaeologists identify a site where prehistoric people once buried their dead now submerged beneath the waves. This is by Meghan Gannon in. This was published about one year ago, February of twenty eighteen got a little time on it. But not a whole lot. All right. Out of Venice in Florida unofficial capital of fossil hunting. It says divers and beachcombers flocked to this city on the Gulf Coast mostly seeking palm sized teeth of the mega Don an enormous shark species that went extinct two and a half million years ago in the summer of twenty sixteen a diver searching for those relics picked up a barnacle crusted jaw from the shallow spot off the shore of Manasota key. And actually, I I was talking with David a little bit about this. Because the as you guys know date lives in Florida and actually very close to this location. So he's very familiar with it, and he's going to work real hard to see if he could get some of the dive team on our show to talk more about this article on this again in the summer of twenty sixteen divers searching for those relics picked up barnacle crusted jaw from shallow spot off. Shore of Manasota key the specimen sat on a paper plate in his kitchen for a couple of weeks before he realized it was probably a human bone the divers picture to Florida's bureau of archaeological research where it landed in front of Ryan Duggan's, the bureau underwater, invest a excuse me, the bureau's underwater archaeology supervisor. A single molar was attached to the job own and the two cusps were warned smooth like from diet of tough foods. Quoting from Duggan. That's something we don't see in modern populations. So that was a quick indicator. We were dealing with a prehistoric individual in quote. With a team of fellow underwater archeologist Duggan's relocated. The dive spot about three hundred yards from the shore and twenty one feet below the surface, quote as soon as we were there it became clear that we were dealing with something new and quote Duggan's recalls. I he spotted a bone excuse me. I e spotted a broken arm bone on the seabed, let me pause here. I should've worn people that you know, some of the description of human remains are little bit graphic in in this. So hopefully, I'm not grossing people out are freaking people out. Okay. Going on. Here says then when he noticed cluster of carved wooden stakes and three separate skull fragments in depression, Duggan's realized he might be dealing with a native American bog burial site one that had been inundated by sea level rise. But was miraculously preserved. During the last ice age, the Floridian peninsula looked more like a stubby thumb rather than an index finger but beginning around fourteen thousand years ago, the global climate began to warm causing glaciers to melt and sea levels to rise Florida shrank over the next several millennia and countless places where prehistoric people once lived hunted and buried their dead disappeared beneath the waves Breen archaeologist traditionally believe, those now submerged sites would be too fragile and a funeral to survive. The violent thrashing of the c- quote. The vast majority of underwater archaeological projects have historically been focused on shipwrecks, quote, Doug and said. However in the past couple of decades, some prehistoric sites, mostly scatters of stone tools have been identified all Florida's coast. Doug and thinks what he found near Minnesota key proves these underwater landscapes have much more logical potential. Now in twenty seventeen the team went back to the site to escalate a small test unit the carefully dug through layers of peat beneath the seabed sometimes using chopsticks pastry brushes, they found densely packed organic remains, including the the human, including more, human bones, sharpened wooden, stakes and textile fragments. Radiocarbon tests on the would indicate the site dates seven thousand years ago during the early archaic period a time when Florida's hunter-gatherers were starting to live in permanent villages. And Dopp secretary lifestyles, so far the researchers have counted a minimum of six individuals sets of human remains. But quote, there's probably going to be a lot more in quote, Doug and says adding that their surveys of the site suggest the whole graveyard could be spread across an acre. All right now, there's more in in this article. But. Okay. So here here's where I want to kind of go off on a on a short rant. What I mentioned. Was that? Or what I read rather was that scientists have believed in archaeologist in particular. Have believe that. Sites. Under the ocean floor around within the ocean floor and under the ocean are no longer. There because of because of ocean wash. The reason this bothers me so much is it's an area that I'm dealing with right now in learning and understanding these offshore wind energy projects. No won't let me be careful with that. What I'm about to say here. The the the companies that we've been dealing with have been I'll say open insensitive to listening to our concerns. Our concerns are based very much in oral history tradition, which as you've heard me talk about on the show before Davis also chimed in when we speak about our oral histories and traditions. We get one of two responses from the scientific community one is the short example would be prove it another words. They don't accept. Are verbal explanations of history. Everything with science is that it has to be proven through, you know, through proven evidentiary. Okay. Evidence has to be uncovered. And we find time and time again that things that indigenous people have mentioned over and over again. Are always coming true. But yet our word if you will is not accepted here again in this particular cases, another example of this. We maintain without going into very very specific about our oral traditions are creation stories, okay. We firmly believe that. Out on the continental shelf, which is all the areas that are out to sea off the coast of the United States. Have countless. Village sites because Yoshi at one point list. Not there. And for. Our opinions will say that's a very weak word at best. To not be. Taken seriously by the scientific community is a travesty. Also, the in terms of offshore winner g and again without naming names or specific amounts. The amount of money being spent on surveys, and you know, marine work marine archaeology Jeeves, physical space. Studies all kinds of things seismic. Our our main concern out of our historic preservation offices is that there are. That that we really want. Careful attention when they're going to put these turbines because they could be disturbing old sites. And as you as I just read this is an actual burial site. Is were indigenous people. That were buried there for whatever the reason might have been okay. Now when it comes to. Land-based our policy. There are certain parameters that have to be followed on your federal law. Let me let me back up a second. So what has made? The ability for there to be offshore wind energy projects begin with the United States it upon itself. Or should I say the federal government took it upon itself to carve up the continental shelf when I mean by that is it actually looked at the in through this through the bureau of ocean an energy management Bom as we call them took it upon themselves to carve up the ocean floor in essence and say, okay. These are now lease spaces. So there are neces- auctioning off sections of the ocean floor. For whatever. Use in this case, it will be wind energy that could be offshore drilling that could be mining that could be any host of things that somebody can dream up and the federal government makes money from that. Because these are private companies that are coming in and bidding on these through an auction. These lease spaces the money comes back to the federal government. And there's no sensitivities in place. Put put forward by Boehm. I'll probably get hate mail from agency people, maybe maybe not. But at least from my position as an individual now, not speaking on behalf of my tribe. I'm not speaking on behalf of other tribes or other tribal historic preservation offices. My concern remains that. The there's no process in place for avoidance of potential sites. And the reason for that is. Show proof. This is this is the argument being presented back to tribal people. Now, there's a really great document that was created in nineteen ninety called keeper of the treasures. Publication of was actually a collaboration between the department of the interior in native American people for many tribes across the United States. It's been published to provide guidance as to the collective attitudes of tribes regarding the present, the preservation of our histories and also our historic and cultural properties get this guide greatly helped shape. What is known today as native American graves Protection Act? Okay. So again this site that was found out off the Florida coast. Is a gravesite. Okay. So I'll put a Lincoln the show notes to keep our the treasures is very big. It's gonna take a while to read like like a like a big book. Right. But but I encourage you guys to read it because. It really is a book of native perspective. And it's important. So here's an excerpt from that. Says many if not most historic properties significant to Indian tribes are not on Indian lands. Meaning reservations, okay. Reservations on and Sestri lands represent only a small portion of the areas historically important to the Indian tribes that live on them. Many. If not most places of historical significance lie outside the boundaries of reservations, perhaps thousands of miles away on lands now controlled by private parties, local and state governments and federal agencies despite great distances and long periods of separation. American Indians, often retain deep emotional ties to the ancestor lands that were ceded by treaty or lost in war in those incessant places lie the graves of their ancestors and other significant sites that the tribes are seeking to protect. Now, here's a quote from Charles Blackwell of the Chickasaw nation in. He was the American chicken saw nations diplomat and lawyer, and he was also the first ambassador of the Chickasaw nation to the United States from nineteen ninety-five until the unfortunate time of his death and twenty thirteen and he said quote with removal period, we were separated from our historical and traditional homesites in Mississippi and Tennessee and other parts of the south. The vast majority of kick assault history is in the south. And that's where the tribe is looking now to stop the pillaging of tribal graves. Okay. So it's very important in the context of this site that was discovered last year. Okay. Now, I mentioned a moment ago that there exists an act called the native American graves Protection Act or Nagara for short. Okay. And so here's here's the two goals of this act number one. It describes the rights of native American lineal descendants Indian tribes and native Hawaiian organizations with respect to the treatment repatriation and disposition of native American human remains funerary objects sacred objects and objects of cultural patrimony referred to collectively in the statute as cultural items. Number two. The second purpose of the statute is to provide greater protection for native American burial sites and more careful control over the removal. If need be of native American human remains funerary object sacred objects and items of cultural patrimony on federal and tribal lands nag for requires that try that Indian tribes or native Hawaiian organizations be consulted whenever archaeological investigations encounter or are expected to encounter. Native American cultural items or when such items are unexpectedly discovered on federal or tribal lands as ovation or removal of such items. Also must be done under procedures required by the archaeological resources Protection Act. That's a whole different act. So okay, you say right there. Okay. So this act Nagara says we should take special care also involve indigenous people. When we've encountered gravesites now, if I look at this on land. It becomes. It's stronger. It was really written for land-based archaeology. For example, if. If the if a development project is happening on federal land, let's say and contractor while they're digging hits gravesite work as opposed to stop. A in most cases a medical examiner is called in. And they examined the remains to determine origin whether or not their indigenous or perhaps from different, you know. Person if they are determined to be native, American origin. Then tribes are contacted to see about a procedure to repatriate on the words. Reburied the remains through our ways in our in our traditions. The battle that we often have is in the interest of development, right? A lot of times these guys they're like, oops. And they don't report it. So, you know, and there's very very there. There's deep reprecussions if they're discovered that you know, they were aware of this. I would say more times than not, you know, they do comply, but we have found examples where you know, shall I say oil and gas companies have ignored that. But, but in most cases, I would say they generally are rec- know respectful in and they stop work. So, you know, in in these areas, you know, Nagpur works. However that second point right at the end says that escalation will removal of such items must also be done under procedures required by the arket archaeological resources Protection Act or Arpaio. That's the short for that. So now, what is our cover? Well. Said the term. Public land's is defined. As follows a lands which are owned and administered by the United States as part of item won the national park system item to the national wildlife refuge system or item three the national forestry and national forestry system. Excuse me. Item b is where it gets problematic. When it comes to the continental shelf item. B says this all other lands the fee title of which is held by the United States. Or other lands on the outer continental shelf and lands which are under the jurisdiction of the Smithsonian Institution. So basically what that means is if you find a grave site out on the continental shelf. Now dozen apply. So now, you can see the challenge we have in historic preservation when we're dealing with offshore. Anything of a devout development nature. Now as stated we already have challenges with oil and gas companies when it comes to stuff like this. So when donor G is brand new in the sense of offshore. So tribes here on the east coast have been very very active with these companies trying to educate them and getting them to understand that even though they're focusing premise is to get their turbines in place. Our concerns remain that in doing so because of the amount of money that they're spending. And again is I've already mentioned the United States federal government is receiving money. As a result of these auctions of these lease spaces on the continental shelf. So if you're tribal nation you are at an extreme disadvantage. Because big money is forcing big industry or something that will become big industry because offshore wind energy has been going on in Europe for nearly thirty years. So they've made their money nave made it work there. So now they buy bald. Shorelines all across the United States. And the east coast has been chosen as the test bed. There's already five generators out off of what we call block island. So off the off the shore of of Rhode Island. And so now, these are bigger projects bigger Lee spaces, and so anytime you're talking about a bigger lease area footprint, you're talking about a greater likelihood of hitting one of our sites. So we don't have any real protections under the law, it appears to mitigate. Potential. Destruction of sites now again to be fair. We we brought this up very openly and transparently would you know with these wind development companies they are aware of it. But again, we feel like we're we are very much at a disadvantage because their goal is to make these projects happen. That's not to say that they're purposely gonna destroy site. I don't want to communicate that at all, you know. But what is the answer the answer, in my opinion, is that the federal agency needs to step up and make sure that there are procedures in place because right now under federal acts that doesn't exist. It's not under. It's not an Arpaio. And and now pros referring everything to Arba. So these are the challenges that were coming up against regarding at least offshore winner. She, but I'm going to broaden that to say anything offshore of any any development because as you guys. No like anything else wants something is completed and they look back at okay, all the processes that took place to make that project happen that becomes sort of a bible or a guide, and if that bible or guide is devoid. Of the indigenous voice and devoid of the sensitivities around our cultural sites. They're going to railroad through all these other projects. Those sites will get destroyed. And at least we have I would say some allies in the scientific community just if anything for selfish reasons, they want the knowledge, right? We do too. But our attitude is we already know there there. We already have our own documentation if you will to call the oral traditions. Called our cultural ways to in our creation stories, which they don't accept because they're not scientifically founded you see. So it's a delicate balance the delicate relationship, and and one that we hope. We can we can get resolved. Fortunately, I would say the younger people coming out of the scientific community are much much more sensitive. They tend to be much more open minded, so you know, we hope to continue to work work with folks. But again, that's not to say that that the folks we are interacting with today haven't been open to what we're saying what we worry about is actual action. You know? So that's. That's what I wanted to say about that. So. Let's see let's see Dave and chat wrote. This Japan has a similar law in regards to win archeological remains are found when construction work is being done been done. It makes ancient history. Much more relevant. When you see the signs saying quote dig in progress. Do not disturb remains unquote will true, you know, that's the thing. But unfortunately, in the United States, even with signs stated if you don't have consequences against that. That's what is all about. And then there's there they're steep. They're very severe consequences. If you're caught what they traditionally call pot hunting. If you're if you're digging up the graves of people in our case often what it was is. Because they they were after sir ammonium items, you know, if something was buried with with the necklace amusing very archaic late. But. Necklace. They wanted that. So they would dig people up they would take the items, and then they would just leave the bones wherever not to be gross in discussing freak people out. But that that is what was going on. So Arpaio was created to as a as a remedy with with the consequence against that. So so that is at least in place, so definitely. All right. Let's see was changed subject again Shelley. Thank you for listening to my rant. So this next article comes out of the Cherokee, Kirke, Phoenix dot org. And the title read Cherokee nation seed, Bank online distribution begins, February I actually was day the found this, but also Beth sent it to us as well. Thank both of them. Alitalia qua- Turkey nations. Seed Bank is set to go live online for orders on February first. So that was actually that actually took place yesterday the heirloom garden and native plant site produces enough seeds implants to disperse over five thousand items per year, depending on growing conditions quote. We seem to be stuck in a cycle of what I would consider fairly poor growing conditions over recent years. For two ish Alie routine improvements in our infrastructure and operations are keeping production rate. Stable our inventories good, and we will be able to provide a sufficient amount of product to Cherokees this year end, quote, environmental resource, senior director, Pat Guinn said, quote, our plants prefer a classic coal spring of reasonable duration followed by progressively warming summer temperatures with ample moisture throughout the growing season of twenty eighteen unfortunately has typical spring conditions for just a few days. Not weeks followed by an early summer with little rain, thus are cool season crops suffered with recovery only possible via our fall plantings in quote. Planting guide comes with each seed order that contains information such as when to plant soil temperature's amount of sun exposure and Germay Shen times the seed Bank generally offers around twenty to thirty varieties of seeds per year. However in the in the seed Bank, proper there are more than one hundred varieties of plants growing wins. This is because some plants not flowering every year. He said crops such as corn tobacco's and gourds are quote, fairly simple end quote to grow and are not as weather dependent as some of our native plant offerings. Quoting him. Again, the native plants are just as much or even a little bit more. So a part of Cherokee culture, then are the crops the native plants are harder to produce. As we have as we have to try to replicate an environmental setting completely different from our seed Bank locations, many important cultural Cherokee plants grow in a cool wetland under story. Yes. Under story environment. Sorry. We are located in the middle of a sun baked field of shallow soil. So it's pretty tough Guinn said. The earldom garden was started in two thousand six and produces native plants and crops important to Cherokee culture, the Cherokee language program insures that the Cherokee names of the plants and crops are not lost most of the plants and crops are found around the C N and North Carolina. The eastern band of Cherokee Indians have shared many native plants with the Cherokee nation. And then there's links here to create an account for orders if you'd like to do so. And if you want to get more information, you can contact by Email seed Bank at Cherokee dot org are also there's a phone number here. You can call nine one eight four five three five three three six and in the rest of the article, they actually show seeds that will that are available this year, some of which are corn beans squash. Of course, gourds and trail of tears beads and tobacco in there's an extensive list. If you follow the link from our show notes would be great. Oh, king you guys. Let's see. I'm trying to keep things going here. Just it just feels like so, you know, without Dave about stuff back and forth. It's it's yes. It's not a true perspective show. All right. What I wanted to play you guys. Now, if if you downloaded a couple of weeks ago, I had sat down and interviewed Darren Thomson. He was one of the volunteer. Organizers of the indigenous peoples March that took place in got some attention satellite because of events that took place at the end of that March which really had nothing to do with the March at all the March with an extreme success. But if your member we were talking about the Covington kids and how they treated Nathan Phillips that came on the tail end of that March. So, but I wanted to I only in the first part part one it was mostly a focus on the market self, you know, leading up to it and and also Darren has ties with to hone Odom nation. And so we talked a bit about that. But Darren is also a flute player and. So I wanted to play the rest of this interview about seven minutes here and also he will share one of his songs. So with that here is the rest of that interview. But you know, music actually brings people together. Right. And I I know there's going to be quite a bit of you know, music at this particular event, but I also wanna talk a little bit about your own music because flute music in particular, you know, in and of itself is is very healing. I don't know if you've ever had a chance to meet the late Joe fire crow. Yeah. Good actually lived over there. When he passed. I was Sola worry. Now, I live in the black hills. And I'm originally from Wisconsin. Most two locations are not close to each other at all and one of the inspirations of my career was Joseph fire crawl and a friend of mine whose name is Ed Kovin up there and upstate New York. I'm sure yeah. He's yeah. He's one of the organizers of the native American musical wards, and he got a hold of me and asked if I could put together something 'cause actually Joseph firecracker used to perform at the Crazy Horse memorial twenty five years ago. And so I did a thing for him Crazy Horse, and you know, that was kind of surprising surprising thing because I heard his when he receives his lifetime achievement award. You know, listening to him. And his gratitude for his support and his career really brought tears to my eyes because you know, the way that you felt were was similar to how I feel in regards to the opportunities and experiences I have had with my career. All right. All right. Well, we'll definitely do that. Well, definitely plan for that. And I think you for all your help. And and you know, the the contacts and everything that you're doing it and get I want to wish you well with with the Martian again. I wish I'm there with you in spirit, but I really wish I could go in person, but what about contacting for website and people. So my website is just guarantee dot net. So, you know, D R M T H O M P S O N dot net. Very cool. Find me on social media. Just searched me mom. They're excellent. Links will definitely be in the show notes guys. And also, here's a little bit of his music. Thank you very much. Music of flute music. Darren Thompson again, you can visit his website at Darren Thomson dot net. And great great stuff was great interview. With like, the talk them, again, maybe about the aftermath a lot of the folks didn't even know what took place in solo the read the, you know, the stuff that went down on social media. So, but I can't read or write enough though. The the Marsh itself was a success. It was there was there was no drama around that there were great speeches that I believe we have all of them on our Facebook page the event the stuff that transpired with Nathan Phillips in the comington Catholic high school students happened long after the end of the the March, so very very cool stuff. So a my also wanted to make a correction. That that Beth had mentioned here. She said that only enrolled members of of one of the Cherokee nation's can order the seeds referring to the the article that she had provided that I read a little while ago. So so we'll make that absolutely clear because I didn't actually see that in the article, I may have missed it. So I apologize to Turkey nation. If I if I misspoke, so I'll make sure that correction is also in the the podcast version of this. So all right. All right. Not to go into the politic Rome just a little bit here. Dislike doing so. But. Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Donald Trump. I don't know. I'm calling this segment. Donald Trump delusions. Because my opinion is he is he's completely delusional this past week, the Trumpster was or Cheeto we like to call him or or the fool in the White House's Dave is aptly dubbed him. Was apparently delusional or another example of his delusion again this past week as he completely ignored and decided that suddenly he knows more about national security than apparently all of his quote intelligence chiefs. Never really understood that title either. But needless to say, that's what they're called. But apparently, he's he he's more knowledgeable in intelligence than all of these folks combined. This this behavior was once again exhibited by the Cheeto it was beautifully deconstructed on the late show with Stephen Colbert recently. So you guys take a listen to this. You're out there to the late show. I'm your host, even coal bear. Thank you so much. Thank you for joining us here despite all the cold across the nation's with cold right now. But despite that, you know, who's all hot and bothered Donald Trump. The president's intelligence chiefs publicly contradicted him Tuesday. So today at the White House. He was asked if he still believed in. I disagree with things of this. Right. The time. We'll be right. So. So. Oh, you all disagree. But only over what the existential threats to America art, anybody's guess on those that really inspires confidence. It reminds me of Lincoln storing words of Gettysburg government of the people by the people for the people shall not perish from the earth. Probably. No, I don't know. Later this afternoon. Trump waned that what the intelligence chief said to congress wasn't actually what they said to congress. Today about the displeasure you have with their. I did the said that they were totally. They were totally. It was taken out of context. What I do is to just to do call them. They said it was fake news. Sure, they said it was fake news. They said it was fake news. And the whole situation was very very and I quote. Said. They said what do you mean? They would misquoted there were cameras. It was live. We all watched it. I think we're seeing a preview of Trump's next big denial. You know, I spoke with the two lovely rushing ladies in that video. And they said there was taken totally out of context. And then then. Totally out. Steve needed. To help you out since you've seem confused, we've provided the full context, I says will continue to be a threat to the United States. We have one against ISIS North Korea will seek to retain its w MD capabilities to get denuclearization. We do not believe Ron is. Currently undertaking activities. We judge necessary to produce a nuclear device, the world's leading state sponsor of terror will be on the cusp of acquiring the world's most dangerous weapons we expect Russia. We'll continue to wage its information war against democracies. I have President Putin. He just said it's not Russia. I will say this. I don't see any reason why would be. After viewing good for you. Donald Trump is denying reality the level that is clinically insane. Others would say that too. Pretty. Trump. Explain there's an easy way to avoid another government shutdown. Just give them everything he wants if they don't give us a wall doesn't work without a wall. It doesn't work. There's no wall. Get those. Arcelor I'm going on going physical barrier. You can forget it. So that's it. No wall. No government. And there is no. Except for one small point. We are building a lot of wall. I'm not waiting for this committee. We're building the wall right now the world is going up right now, we're building a lot of wall abilities induce such large sections the wall getting built it's getting it's getting verse upset. So he's going to shut down the government. Let's gets the wall. We already have. What was he like the dad Dan get down here and finish your debtors, which I eight hours ago? Really, really fantastic chicken nuggets. Ben Trump threatened to take away the parts of the wall that do exist. And by the way, if you go to Tijuana, and you take down that wall. You will have so many people coming into country that dancy Pelosi. We'll be in for a wall should be begging for a long. She will say Mr President, please please give us a little. I'm not saying this as a Republican. I'm not saying that as as anything other than a that. Of fact, Stater. Yeah. So I heard that right. I got thinking. Where the hell of I heard that before. Oh, oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you gotta go back in time with me. All right back to two thousand six when George W Bush was president you guys. Remember those? Commenting on potential personnel. Moves Moore's calling it speculation understand why we got people's reputations at stake. And I'll Friday I stood up and said, I don't appreciate the speculation about Don Rumsfeld. He's doing a fine job I strongly supporting what do you say to critics who believe that you're a goring vice retired generals military commanders who say that there needs to be attained. Voices. The minds of final decision and Don Rumsfeld is doing a fine job. He's not only transforming the military. He's fighting a war on terror. He's helping us fight a war on terror. I have strong confidence. Donald I hear the voices. And I read the front page, and I know the speculation. But I'm the decider I decide what is best. And what's best is for Don runs failed to remain. This the secretary of defense. I'm the decider. So as you can hear Donald Trump can't even. All he's doing is pulling stuff from prior presidencies. Prior presidencies. All right. Here's the rest of Kobe Trump lies so much. He can't even remember the word for not lying. Okay. Everybody who wants to play a game of fact state or dare. Dare you defect state. Even though even though he has not gotten his well, Trump found pointed to be proud of. Practically. Military. Yes. That's we know that that's well known. He had -ccomplish to the military who can forget his banner military accomplish. Earlier this day. Earlier in the day. Trump tried a different wall strategy tweeting them was from now and stop playing political games. Hey is. Yes. Thank you. Let's stop playing political games. Who was that jerk who kept insisting on not calling the wall the wall. If I the way. He thinks he's so brilliant that he actually put out a tweet. I think before all this went down. I said, you know, this was during the shutdown. You've actually releases a tweet says. Crime. We'll I'm not even joking. Gogel it you'll find it a steel wall or you could call it a steel fence barriers fencing or walls, or whatever you wanna call. It barriers malls, call it, what you want whatever you wanna call it and Tokay with me, they can name it, whatever they can name it peaches. We're going to build a giant peach? James is going to pay for it. Pinks? That's it. That should that should be his campaign slogan. There you go. Trump also announced mo- drapes being sent to the votes to stop the attempted invasion of illegals through ledge care and into our country. We have stopped the previous caravans, and we'll stop these also with a wo- it will be so much easier and less expensive being bed. They can't get a wall. So we sending the army to cover up first failures. It's our new motto I made some oopsy. Says send in the troops. By the way, he took that straight from Venezuela that outgoing president guy that refuses to accept the result of the election. And you know, had a big speech in front of all of the army. You must take me. Yeah. That's where he got that from. We got a great show tonight. Yeah. So yeah. That's what we're dealing with here in the United States. We're dealing with this. Okay. This reality. For two years now. Two years of having to do that what we found. Found on the show believe and we have the Beth like the best best audience on the planet. Somebody found footage of Donald Trump when he was an elementary school. Unbelievable. I absolutely unbelievable. He's a bully. Now, he was a believe then. And here's what somebody actually recorded. Let's go. Come on. So. Yeah. The bottom line from my perspective is pretty much this. If this is your idea of quote, shaking up the government, or if you said when he was running, quote, I think we need an outsider to give the presidency shot. Okay. Well, we tried it your way. All right. The results are countless disruptions and embarrassment worldwide and constant reminders of how racist America can be. If that's your thing vote for Trump again in twenty twenty. What if you are stable mind, if you hate racism, and you want to change the perception of this country the rest of the world, I ask that you consider voting for practically anyone anyone else in twenty twenty. And the democrat side of the twenty twenty races already putting forth more diversity than I've seen before for women five people of color, and quite frankly that list continues to grow it would be a beautiful thing to see an indigenous person run to and there's still plenty of time. Now, I guess you could call this my statement of fear, but maybe not exactly but just a sort of end in a humorous kind of way. But actually what Dave in chat mentioned that. He says I love goes. I laugh, partly because it's funny, but partly because it's terrifying to see how disconnected from reality. He is and. Here's another clip from core bear that. I think actually speaks to that quite quite well, so here we go. The Wall Street Journal, the here's the thing. The Wall Street Journal did not release the full transcript of the interview. But last night politico did and it's really less hop and more scotch now. Unfortunately, there is no footage of Trump's saying this stuff. But luckily, we were able to get live via satellite speaking exclusively in actual answers from the interview. Please welcome cartoon Donald Trump cartoonist president. How you doing? Great. Great. Thank you for being with the, sir. Now, I hear you've been working on international trade deals. How's that going? So I deal with foreign countries. And despite what you may read. I've unbelievable relationships with all the foreign leaders. Then, you know, it's amazing. So I caught like major major countries, and I'll be dealing with the prime minister the president. And I'll say how you doing. So your idea foreign policy is calling people just to say hi, can I suggest your next secretary of state be a lonely grandmother? Okay. So do your conversations with foreign leaders touch on any policy issues, you places like Malaysia the nesia, and you say, you know, how many people the ad, and it's pretty amazing. How many people they? How many people that have? Wow. Normally to get that information. You have to check Snapple cap. Good. Have you made any progress with international trade deals when I was with president. She who I've very good relationship with. I said do me a favor would you allow cattle please to come in? I was last night in West Virginia coming up to me and hugging and kissing me. Because of the cattles stuff, I didn't know your into cattle. You tweeted he tweeted about trade talks with Britain. Can you tell us anymore about what's going on? But I can say it. We're going to be very involved with the UK. I mean, you don't hear the way Britain anymore. It's very interesting. It's like, Nope. But you just said the word Britain. No. Okay. On another point you recently called the US the highest tax nation in the world. But the data shows that's clearly Denmark, we're the highest taxes nation in the world. We have nobody knows what the number is. But I mean, it used to be when we got there in the debate two point five trillion, right? When the most elegant Persian, right? I call him Mr. elegant. What any of that mean? And this is something you actually said, but who is Mr. elegant, I call him, Mr.. Like. Mansoori on your quite. Mr. elegant, but you can call me Winston. And who are you? Residents magin every frame if you to me. I'm hosting ranging Ponti four three million every vote. Cartoon from Mr. elegant. That's it. That's it. Okay, folks. So only you can prevent more of that. Like. Twenty twenty will be here before we know it. I don't know. I don't know what else to say. Those are all real quotes, by the way. About as bad, as you know, him visiting, you know, hurricane victims is that your boat. Supposed to be in the waters that your boat. Yeah. Real quote. All right. More article here, we'll wrap for the for this particular episode bound this would be of interest. Church. Sues Navajos woman over settlement in abuse case. From Dennis Brom boy out of KSL. This is Salt Lake City. And he writes, the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints as filed a lawsuit asking a judge to find that the Navajo district court doesn't have jurisdiction over the case of Navajos woman accused of. Renna jing. That's how you pronounce it on. Oh, excuse me. Must be ridden egging. Sorry knitting on a settlement over her allegations that she was sexually abused decades ago in the church now defunct Indian student placement program. The church is also asking a judge to find her claims moot. And to stop her case from proceeding. The lawsuit was filed against the woman on Monday in United States district court in Salt Lake City. The woman identified in court documents as B N filed a lawsuit against the church and Nabo national district court in twenty sixteen. As her case preceded the church and the woman reached out reached an out of court agreement according to Monday's complaint. Quote, under the terms of the settlement agreement plaintiffs agreed to pay bien a certain amount in exchange for a release of the claims that she had or could have a certified in the Navajo district court action, and quote, according to the lawsuit Gordon, again, B N, ultimately renege on the settlement agreement and refused to abide by its terms, and quote right there makes you wonder if if true. What did she have against church? No says here. Un-union worry seventh a fourth district. Judge improve. Oh found the agreement between the church and beyond was quote, valid in binding and quote, the lawsuit says the church sent a check to the woman for the agreed upon amount on January eleventh, according to the lawsuit. Quote, VN refused to dismiss her claims against the plaintiff and returned the check and quote, the lawsuit says the amount of the settlement was not disclosed the woman alleges in her lawsuit that she participated in the placement program between nineteen sixty five and nineteen seventy two when she lived in the homes of members of the church of Jesus Christ latter-day saints in Utah to attend public school. She claims she was sexually abused during that time. Bien is among several people who took part in the program as children who have sued the church in recent years, the church argues that because the alleged abuse did not happen in the whole nation. The tribal court does not have jurisdiction. I'd Aho attorney Craig Vernon who filed the twenty sixteen lawsuit against the church. So that he no longer represents began and had no comment. New mexico. Attorney David are Jordan said beyond never agreed to settle the case. He said her lawyers spoke with her husband who agreed to the settlement without her thority. The Navajo courts have never declared the case subtlety said. Quote, the LDS defendant. Let's see not even asked the Navajo courts to enforce the settlement agreement. In fact, the case is going forward to Navajo court and the Navajo supreme court just entered a ruling in favour of my climate of my client dismissing a writ that sought to declare that Navajo court had no jurisdiction and quote, Jordan said. Jordan said he has not seen the federal case. But quote, we will vigorously oppose any effort to circumvent the tribal court process and quote. Yes. So that so it seems to be at the heart of it and abuse case. And. Over in mainstream news media land CBS in particular has been running story after story after story as of late about sexual abuses of people by not only Catholic priests, but nuns and other people connected to to the church. Most recently some cases that cropped up in Texas. You know, when I started the show today talked about historical trauma. In the context, of course of. Native people in crimes committed against the whole tribal nations by you know. Colonialism? And. And those ancestors, obviously now long gone of Europeans that perpetrated those crimes against native people. But depending on your position in I'm going to preface by saying, this is not of all churches, and not even all Catholic churches. But the effects of the church. On Indian communities. Hasn't always been positive. Ties to residential schools as one example because the foundation of many of these schools were supposedly founded in. Religious practice. Killing Indian saved the man. So if this. Person. Realize that you know, if we take the article. At face value and says that. Her husband. Took the check or made the agreement on her behalf and she didn't. And that person didn't have her thority then. Yeah, there's no settlement as best said and chat the fact that she or her and her husband returned. The check also may constitute legally, no settlement. And if this if at the heart of this is in fact, a abuse case. And the church is trying to buy off a victim. What do you think about that? Doesn't fix the hurt. First of all. So again, if article is accurate, I applaud her. For her courage to stand up and say, no. I would rather play it out in court. And maybe. Put some people in prison. Might not solve her hurt. But. Perhaps at least now we have abusers that are no longer able to us. Other indigenous people or or people in general because this affects many people not just indigenous people because the cases are widespread. Sadly, all right one last story. And then I am going to close for this episode. This article is NBC news article reads US moves ahead with oil leases near sacred park. Democrat members of congress tribal leaders and environmentalists have criticized the Federal Bureau of land management for pushing ahead despite the recent government shutdown. So this through the Associated Press publish through NBC news. Says Albuquerque New Mexico give me one moment. Little indigestion that I did not want to share with you, by the way drinking hot cocoa. Eating grapes is not a great idea. Just for the record. All right advocate. This read the United States. Land managers will move forward in March with a sale of oil and gas lease leases that sound familiar that include land near Chaco culture, national historical park and other sites sacred to native American tribes. The sale comes as a democratic member of congress tribal leaders and environmentalists have criticized a Federal Bureau of land management for pushing ahead with drilling permit reviews and preparations for energy leases, despite the recent government shutdown limited staff on duty over the last month. The critics complained that they were locked out of the process because the agency didn't release any information about the sale. They also questioned why the agency would be able to adequately review the land that's up for bid, and whether it would consider protest to the move. Now. Let me stop right there. Iraq chually brought this up in one of my meetings with having to do with off-shore wind. I was told by some of my native colleagues that that there was a process that tribes were involved in regarding the lease spaces on the continental shelf. I do not recall. That and I'm still looking for that. But it's very common where a federal agency will not try very hard. I'll put it that way in notifying tribes that they are planning to do something like this, particularly once again when you're talking about this level of money involved that the government stands to make and the amount of money that a oil and gas company stands to make. They are not about to let tribe interfere with that. And this is a fight that's going on forever and ever just ask. Well, no, Duke. So it's. It's nothing new. Tribes dealt with. But but here yet, again is another example. Going on in the article says again with limited staff on duty over the last month. Critics complain that they were locked out of the process because the agency didn't release any information about the sale they also questioned whether the agency would be able to adequately review the land that's up for bid, and whether it would consider protests to the move. United states. Senator Tom udall told the Associated Press at an Email that he's concerned about the latest attempt to lease potentially culturally significant land in New Mexico without a more comprehensive plan in place, quoting Mr. Udal. It's a mistake that wild critical public services were shuttered for thirty five days during the government shutdown the bureau of land management still move forward with this opaque process, and quote, the New Mexico Democrat said. Agency, spokeswoman Kathy Garber said officials decided to push back the lease sale by a couple of weeks to accommodate a public protest period that was delayed because of the shutdown the agency quietly confirmed on its website that they would accept comments starting February eleventh and that the sale was scheduled for March twenty eighth again, that's another very common tactic. Not not doing not adequately notifying the public. So I'm not even gonna focus exclusively on indigenous people, they do this to everybody. When when they know there's the potential likelihood of great resistance to something that they're going to do and they want that damn money. Though release one notice on a website somewhere, and they won't put it in the papers. They won't put it on radio. They won't put it on television. Or public radio or public television. And then people find out about it with five days left in the comment period. And then the government turns around goes, well, we didn't really see much of a response. So. Let's move forward. Very very common and for tribes even more. So we see it all the time. Tilly article depending on the outcome of the protests period. It's possible for the agency to withdraw the land question excuse me to withdraw the land in question, including nine parcels near Choco a world heritage site with massive stone structures, Keita's and other features that archaeologists believe offer a religious or ritualised experience here on the east coast. We call that ceremonial stone landscapes. In all more than fifty parcels in New Mexico in Oklahoma will be up for bid, quote, we cannot help but protests, what appears to be an intentional bias in the favoring of oil and gas development over our intra over other interests excuse me, and quote, former a coma Pueblo governor Kurt Riley said last week during a congressional forum. Riley and others said the shutdown exacerbated the already tense situation over the expansion of oil and gas development in northwestern, New Mexico. In recent years. Land managers have declined oil and gas exploration on land within ten miles of the park, creating somewhat of an informal buffer. In early twenty eighteen then interior secretary Ryan Zinke halted a lease sale over cultural concerns after hundreds of people protested on us. You gotta understand. That's that's like it's like putting the FOX in charge of the henhouse. Okay. Zinke is one of the architects behind these properties, shall we say, these these historical properties being considered in this move. He was aided and abetted by Scott Pruitt, the then EPA administrator. The battle over energy development around chock, oh has been simmering for years in twenty fifteen government officials visited the region in hopes of brokering a way forward for the tribes and energy companies the bureau of land management and the bureau of Indian affairs began working together on revamping the resource management plan for the San Juan basin which covers a large portion of northwestern New Mexico and parts of Southern Cal of excuse me, southern Colorado. The partnership was meant to ensure tribes of be consulted. And that scientific and archaeological analysis would be done to guarantee cultural sensitivity is the end of the article. So yeah, this is same old game new day. These guys constantly play. We need people to protest it to get hold of. Senators put that forward. But it's a, you know, the these folks just simply don't care. It's that's all there is to that. They simply do not care. We knew what the Republican administration going in. That was going to be their first target was the expansion of oil and gas never anything in conservation. Never anything says. Hey, Americans should cut back on the amount of power that you're using. We haven't seen conference energy conservation efforts in this country since the nineteen seventies. So there you go. And win that you guys. I don't have anything else. I appreciate you bearing with me in absence of. Lost rates co-host, Mr David grail. Who again is? Very positively shaping in helping a young person in her goals to be an Olympic gymnast. And I certainly hope that she does great at the meet today, an accomplishes. That goal be very very cool thing. So as we like to do on the show all the time. If you'd like to reach us in comment on anything that was discussed day or in any of our past episodes by all means how you can do that is you can Email us hosts whether nece hosts at native opinion dot com. Our Twitter handle, of course, at native opinion over there. Our Facebook page at Facebook dot com, forward slash native opinion podcast a website. Of course, native opinion dot com are episodes post out there in YouTube. And if you are an avid podcast listener, like I am you can certainly subscribe to our podcast and get it delivered to your device of choice every single week without fail. Just go to any directory, and you should find us there. Any of the majors. You can also leave us voicemail at eight six zero eight hundred five five nine five always loved to get voicemail. So that's it for episode one fifty nine appreciate all of our listeners. Thank you very much for joining us here. Today. My name is Michael kicking bear from the Mashantucket Pequot tribal nation hearing, Connecticut. And we hope you guys have a great rest of the weekend. Take care. Bye. Bye.

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Abandoning our allies in Syria

Pod Save the World

1:17:15 hr | 10 months ago

Abandoning our allies in Syria

"Created in directed by our friends over cadence C. Thirteen originals the team that bright gangster capitalism is evil their next series long may they run the world is brought to you by a long may they run guys. There is a great new music documentary podcasts out there called long may they run is it about fish it's entering fund which helps send money to Virginia candidates in some of the closest races and make sure they have the resources they need in the final stretch so votive America dot com check it out and so toward lesson a lot more power to draw fair lines when we re district in two thousand twenty one so if you go to save America Dot Com you can find volunteer opportunities you can also check out our fuck Jerry China over the issue of Hong Kong impeachment news with a special focus on trump's utterly unqualified US ambassador to the European Union dip into North Korea talk about a special treaty that helps US monitor Russian military movements and a secretive Russian military unit that does really fun stuff like assassinations and s spotify radio dot com in anywhere listened to your podcast highly recommended fish whether you like them or not was hugely impactful in terms of the US music culture nausea that's terrifying in then we'll check in in our friend Boris Johnson over in the UK our guest today is Washington Post Beirut Bureau chief Liz sly she called in impactful and pioneering bands of all time you could call your band that was anti fish filet of fish let's go the PH nailed it from touring to ticketing to streaming festivals being weakened news another week another great week we're going to talk about a lot of stuff today we're GonNa talk about President Trump's decision to pull troops out of Syria to help us understand the view from the ground in Syria and then this building protest movement in Iraq this not gotten a lot of coverage could be a really a lot of people love people got killed yeah welcome back to the world. I'm Tom you'd be tour I'm Ben Rhodes Ben it's been an interesting there's some really important Elections coming up in Virginia where Democrats need to flip to seats in the House of delegates in two seats in the state Senate to win back the majority which means we'll have about the fact that prescription drug prices in the United States are way higher than anywhere else in about our fucked up political system and how it has caved to Pharma eighties out of people being injured and killed and so it's something we should be watching before we get the news too quick housekeeping items I hope you guys have checked out America dissected by Abdul Sad the third episode series a dual so smart you'll learn a ton and he is funny and empathetic and everything you wanted to so please check it out the other thing when the flag is the phantom and more the series features new interviews band members the music of fish in over sixty interviews with people in connected with around the band you can find long run now on apple podcast the Turkey is going to move forward with this long planned military operation in northern Syria he also said the US would pull one hundred one hundred fifty or so military personnel out of the and the impending Turkish assault on northern Syria NBA news sort of an NBA pod because your boys and his canter but it'll dust up with evatt let's talk about the News Ben we'll start with Syria so at eleven pm or so on Sunday night the time when you normally put out a White House statement the White House released a statement and isn't one of long way they run focused on the Ben Fish with in my high school there was a cover band it was sort of like Jan van de like fish called flood and then a bunch of meaner Seniors Korea right before we started taping today on Tuesday I saw a Reuters report that suggested Turkey was already hitting targets so it sounds like this this fighting might be happening already. They made a metal band to make fun of the younger jam bed and they call themselves flood with a p. h. that's funny bunnies good anyway fish is one of the most success trump is going to try to portray his decision as getting US troops out in the fight against Isis over to Turkey but in reality this is setup here so Kurdish fighters make up a big chunk of the Syrian democratic forces who have been doing a lot of the fighting Isis in lost thousands of fighters in combat more likely to harm the Anti Campaign Turkish forces will attack some of the Kurdish fighters who have been our allies in the fight against Isis it's a little complicated so here's in these makeshift jails so they are really on the ground the leading the Anti Isis campaign and doing some really important work to help stop Isis from return on the Syrian side of the Syria Turkey border to that they can then resettle Syrian refugees who are currently in Turkey into camps in that safe zone but the problem is that Turkey views many these Kurdish forces in Syria as an extension of a group called the PK K which has been fighting for independence in Turkey for a long time and is designated as terrorist group both in in places like Rocco where it was really brutal like hand to hand house to House combat additionally the the Syrian democratic forces are STF they're holding an estimated eleven thousand Isis fighter doing so the question you might ask is why the hell would Turkey attack them which is a good one Turkey stated objective in this military campaign is to clear a twenty mile deep safe zone Turks start this campaign yeah I mean I guess a little background might be helpful here for people so we started the counter Isis campaign in two thousand fourteen in an effort to spin his decision on Monday trump tweeted quote if Turkey does anything that I in my great and unmatched wisdom considered to be off limits I will totally destroy in fighting the Turks and if we let this happen it is very likely the Turks will get slaughtered by the Turkish military and by Isis all at once just get squeezed so it'll be truly awful all trump was immediately criticized by Republicans for this move and I want to dive into y Republicans seem to get so alarmed by this as you later because it's notable but literate the economy a Turkey I've done before pyrennes exclamation point so we are now abandoning the Kurds in threatening to economically and we were going to be using air power but we needed partners who would actually fight against Isis on the ground and there was a big battle in northern Turkey and in the US so if the Turks roll their troops into Syria the Kurdish forces will likely stop fighting Isis. There's a chance they'll stop guarding these isis prison facilities and they'll start we started airdropping weapons to them and then we opened up a land route to get weapons to them and lo and behold they started fighting back and they won this battle for Kabbani and then we actually we were protecting the Kurds from this Turkish operation what seems to have happened is trump has lost interest in this fight because rockets taking back all this area in northern Syria and eastern Syria that had previously been under control of Isis at the same time the Turks were always Syria a town called Kabbani that Isis was seeking to take in that would kind of consolidate their control over that part of Syria and there was some Kurds fighting against Isis on the ground on the battle against Isis so tens of thousands of Kurds were killed fighting alongside special forces who are helping them kind of plan their operation Great Anita ally Ben it's a lot of background let's pause there would you make of this and can you talk about the US mission in Syria in what you think will happen if in the past when they've gotten an opportunity so sounds like what happened is type Air John Calls up trump won authoritarian to a number uses the threatening to go in and clear out Kurds and saying that there are extension the PK K.. And so part of what we did is we had US troops special forces in the I'M A and it ended with the fall of Russia last year literally could not would not even have been fought if these Kurds didn't take the lead on the ground and and the reality is these Kurds are very vulnerable to Turkish operation like this they they're great fighters on the ground but they depend on us to provide them all kinds of support in order to conduct operations they did and so we could be in a position where number one these Kurds who helped us deal with the threat to our security isis could be massive herd number two you could have a much more violent situation reemerge in north northern eastern Syria that's the kind of place where Isis could regenerate itself so could also put and eleven pm rolls around and you're drafting a statement announcing that we are pulling out of northern Syria and about to allow our closest allies in the region to get fucking slaughter Arias and frankly they were kind of tripwire you know the the Turks weren't going to go under some combat area if they're gonNA be US troops there and so and try to meet you in the middle he just says here's what I want and you have to be firm in saying no I cannot do that here's what I can do and it just seems like trunk twenty but we digress okay so on Monday trump signed this trade deal with Japan and he took some questions about Syria in some other issues around it being to me watching him was it was honestly the most convincing calm like cogent argument I've heard him make about any policy discussion yeah any policy position ever started a process of steadily arming these Kurds and ultimately bring in some Arabs as well in this series democratic forces and these are literally the people who fought wait on this call could you imagine being staffer that like drags your ass into the White House select six PM on Sunday being like an odd man staff this call be home in time to watch the session and and you're giving them intelligence also US air power is providing air support and that went all the way to Raka and so the rises campaign that began in two thousand fourteen hundred US directly at risk this is not the important point apparently trump was supposed to meet with air to wanted UNGAVA I didn't happen because he was having an ongoing meltdown about impeachment fall on the geographic territory that Isis controlled is gone but as we talked about on this pod. Isis is still very much present and would be looking to regenerate itself as they've done I need a favor though you know the favor is you why don't you pull out those US troops and we'll handle isis and by the way we'll do our operation into northern Syria and key in Russia and Iran who have money in the infrastructure and they can share the burden he said he wanted to move these US troops away from the border because he was worried about them being in been like there's holes in that logic big enough to drive a truck through but like it's not totally wrong in its sure as hell sounds convincing so I know you watched it old and so part of what the story is here is that art of the deal this guy can just get steamrolled tough interlocutor aired one just Kinda ran circles around dangerous position if this Turkish operation happens and generally he wants to bring our troops home from the wars we're fighting abroad because he said we shouldn't be the world's policeman and we shouldn't inject ourselves look I he's not wrong that this is incredibly complicated and they're contradictory kind of objectives for the in fact Newsweek quoted a current se staffer who leaked to them that trump just got rolled your happened yeah really it's funny when you in part I think because he was honest about how complicated this all this he he talked about how difficult it will be to deal with the tens of thousands of Isis fighters and their families who are being held right now and how European capitals refused to take their nationals back let alone other bad actors he mentioned how there are big powerful countries in the region like in two centuries old conflicts in tribal wars like what's happening between Turkey and the Kurds and that Russia and China want us to stay in Syria and get bogged down because it benefits them in so us we have a NATO ally Turkey that is worried about these Kurds we've got Kurdish allies who fought with us but you know what it is complicated so yes you make some interesting points but you're just looking at this kind of narrow problem of how do we keep Isis from emerging how do we not disincentivize people from Kurdish only force which kind of Spook them we recruited all these Arabs to fight alongside the Kurds multi-sectarian that there were people of different the reality is part of what we had to do just a man just I remember is a tremendous amount of diplomacy with the Turks right so we be supporting these Kurds and we'd be sending the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to Turkey for dialogue and our counter isis on Roy Brett mcgurk was constantly in Turkey explaining logic we just so we didn't have there's not a formal bilateral so it's like oh we'll just meet we'll pull aside aired WANNA go to another room at the g twenty fifty minutes those meetings are always going hour and a half I think the other reality here is these this is not like Afghanistan the I mean we've been taking on a lot of casualties and Syria I can't even about the I if you underestimate the length of time a meeting is going to take for Barack Obama you'll remember it forever Michael Neale twenty clicks here's a photo line was one hundred people groups in in Syria wanted to get rid of Isis and you know part of the job of president and being in national security and foreign policy is managing complexity How do you go to Turkey and say look while we understand your concerns are the PK this is not in your territory and we will be there and we will try to make sure that the recall the last one we took Brett said no Americans were killed in Bremen Kirk he did this isn't like we're losing guys they're basically there in look aired wants to know tourists can difficult than prickly guy I used to have this joke with Obama because air don't always ask for what we would call a pull aside meeting is not about strengthening PKK it's about strengthening these Kurds in Syria and you just kind of constantly managing it on the ending wars point which I'm obviously sympathetic to ever trusting us again because the risk of selling out the Kurds is the next time we need someone to help us deal with the terrorist threat they might not think we're reliable and then those who want to end the wars you do have to draw distinction between guys in Afghanistan or out in the fight taking casualties versus kind of ambiguous special forces deployed and what you'd be trying to do is negotiate very carefully these guys will be leaving over this period of time we need to get these assurances from Turkey as a part of that that they won't you know as both an insurance policy for the Kurds in just to kind of help organize them and get them intelligence and things like that so it's a deployment but I do think I also think do we want and we talked about this last time he tried to sell the Kurds you could negotiate some process to get these guys out of there and I could that's that's part of the job the job is complicated and it's the Middle East so it's even more complicated and yes are their centuries-old conflict absolutely but like you seek a broader peace settlement and all of Syria how do you try to rebuild some of these areas that were destroyed in the fight against Isis we're just kind of washing hands of that He was suggesting that this was an Obama approach because trump decided unilaterally pull one hundred fifty guys out of this region in northern Syria in some compared okay I'd like to get these guys out over the next expert at time let's negotiate a process for doing that it also kind of removes us from being able to try to be more of a part of how in this this press conference you would you make his argument in terms of of the policy in the politics yeah no I think we need to take it at face value and what was really stay on message for that trip to those poorly Japanese businessmen are behind him ranting about all this stuff but the thing that was surprised and the problem is he's short-circuited that process to get to the end he wanted which is just pulling these guys out so often to be what Erdem's also asking him to do rather than saying be totally for that that's not what happened here like he surprised everybody in his own government including those troops and including the Defense Department by saying Oh they're going to be out in the Turks into their operation own head explode you're seeing a lot of Lazy comparisons to Obama getting out of Iraq mostly by Lindsey Graham who's just world's worst person recently was after Obama here in like they're still shadowboxing Obama because they don't want to recognize the clear and present danger there president trump poses to so obama sing was pull aside with their parents an hour and half being the Bilad it's two hours but everyone is very inflexible guy when you're talking to him he doesn't in which again you might be against that okay that's fair but you do have to separate it out from you know send the US being in a war like Iraq and Afghanistan Iraqi government literally would not give us any authority to leave that residual force there to me what it really shows is that they can't even like frame we're three that to the Iraqis voting to ask ten thousand US troops to leave their country after we had spent a decade they're building up a four hundred asked dangerous at worst to think that heading off to them and saying years now means they will actually deal with it in a way that would want them to at the risk of making trump announces this series decision late Sunday night once again publicans go nuts criticize trump in ways that you never ever see them do and I think the important question is why William and leaving it to Russia and Turkey and Iran to kind of figure this out and you know that's we want to be at that tape yeah it is David go into certain parts of northern Syria their parts of northern Syria that are essentially protected for these Kurds and it's a negotiated end to our presence there sexual assault so is holding military aid to Ukraine ransom for dirt on Joe Biden right so I've been trying to figure out why this is the breaking point for Republicans thousand persons strong Iraqi Defense Forces it just the stupidity of these comparisons rising yeah you covered it I mean you know we don't fully relive the thing awesome of trump with like a healthy spoonful of Obama shit talking maybe he thinks sets how trump will actually listened to yeah okay well so you sort of alluded to this in December of last year Ben trump basically did exactly what he's doing now he declared that Isis was defeated he said all you servicemembers are coming home from Syria and this is not a good or acceptable outcome either like it or not like he's the commander in chief and it's weird when you hear reporting about how they ignored him but I digress but so okay this week time yeah and I think part of it is right it's obviously their right to criticize him but I also think that part of it might be lobbying by Evangelical Christians in the US because they're worried you know like because Obama initiated the policy like Yes to go back to sing else Obama did which is not leaving a residual force of ten thousand troops in Iraq when the putting kids in cages separating families kind of selling at the farm policy United States Vladimir Putin trashing the US intelligence community colluding aiming to collude with think the more notable point is just the kind of intellectual dishonesty here right okay. Obama built this relationship with these Kurds began national security yeah I think a lot of offices deal with the The compliment sandwich where every criticism has to be glued between two of saccharin compliments Lindsey Graham offers all you know I think that's probably why this week you saw Pat Robertson condemned trump's decision in the last time he he floated a Syria withdrawal he got attacked by the Family Research Council these are usually his closest Dan arming them in the counter isis campaign and now trump is pulling the plug in Lindsey Graham can't even just make a point on the merits it has to somehow be a pumice fault Republican psyche in offends them these days is ending wars yeah I it's remarkable to watch because you know that you know the Republicans have constantly tried to define themselves as being these kinds of reflexive hawks on national security and kind of wrap themselves in the military and obviously the military's been resistant to this move but I there's a broader point here which is be the Evangelical Christian focused on this I met with those Syrian Christians the it's fascinating they really do seem like they walked out of the Bible Breaking International Agreements and not sending by alliances is been the core of the trump foreign policy for three years really good point and that's what he did to the Kurds right so thing you know they're they're important community I also think that the US military Republicans love to just like today mean- Republicans freaked out and then he backtracked and interestingly it also seems like the military just Kinda slow walked his decision to buy time which let's be on but who knows we'll see the world is brought to you by custom vendors because we know he's a he's a devout Christian himself who lives the word of God I don't know like why do you think that the only thing that bricks through the kind of saturated in this kind of DC militarized version of foreign policy version of toughness it has to do with kind of being so if you look at it Afghanistan Syria the two places where a guy like Lindsey Graham stands up to trump in part what's interesting about that is they don't but to me it just points up kind of abject hypocrisy because if you're worried about this because of the logic that we aren't standing by allies and understand like his appeal like his appeal a big part of his appeal is actually saying he'd get out of these war right so there's this kind of interesting thing where the the pressure Ukraine to interfere in our election trashing alliances all of these things have been okay but this isn't and also I should add I It is true that giving the Turkish military of the green light to slaughter the Kurds. The guys who've been fighting with against Isis is just like morally wrong and repugnant but so is take your own plus you'll always find friendly customer service representatives ready to help with every step of your order and with fast free shipping you'll get all your gear in plenty everyone who sees them happier by getting ten percent off your next order from customink Goto customink dot com slash world that's customink dot com slash mink customink is your best place to go for custom apparel accessories they pay us to tell you about the belonging nece hypothesis it's my favorite hypothesis for a healthier world one easy to improve your sense of belonging and all of your groups by wearing matching custom gear from customink their website is easy to use as hundreds of products Zimmer breaking international agreements how can you not have been worried about all the other times for the last three years that trump has screwed over allies in broken rational agreements world hey guys if you like our show there's another podcast we think that you will love it's called the journal from Gimblett and the Wall Street Journal Every Weekday the journal takes you behind the biggest news do this together so it's not like Mitt Romney the sad tweet it's like twenty Republicans I'll put out statements about terriers in something they feel comfortable doing it. Collective action as their great weakness Turley present in as many countries as possible having you know obviously an outsized role for concern for Christian minorities as part of that yeah all right well we'll keep watching this one because hopefully this thing hopefully he walks this back in some way I mean it's like not that many guys leave him there begins our our our tone deaf to a message that trump is used that is actually a politically effective message which is what the hell are we doing in Syria what how doing Afghanistan it's time to get out of there and they're so music doc that is about exploring iconic touring bands we've had a lasting impact on music culture and beyond Ruvo's Great John as you guessed yeah it is very bizarre I think also just kind of feel one of the things is inching relevant the impeachment is there is a herd mentality so it's like they feel comfortable because they all it's utterly predictive out of character for that on this is very in character for trump so it's more jarring to see the Republican response I think part of it is yeah PARV could data these religious minorities in the region will just get slaughtered including ancient Christian lots of this ancient commutes air may Jesus spoke so and how the decisions made in boardrooms affected decisions you make in your own life they look at things like college actually be better for everyone or as a recession really coming it shows how business is driving the day's headlines toasted by rank Newton and Caitlyn Baugh this show gives you that crucial context behind how the most powerful people set policies his wife John Because they care about you and they love spreading joy anyway this hypothesis holds that he's sense of belonging makes you happy in that happy people this is the same thing where like Jim Mattis this is the only thing he ever raises workshop over this and let's be very clear I'm not in the middle of that human horse of Pete listeners his time is there a Halloween costume a weird weird interchange Indian listeners it's easier now than ever to make all your groups and have time for your event I think we should get one of those horse costumes somebody's the head Oh someone's could boost I prefer I prefer to be the come back the journal is about money business and power it's out every weekday follow and listen for free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts in what would the US do if it did they explain what exactly is at stake in this stupid trade war and they follow the money to see Oh Jeffrey Epstein get as powerful as they do American politicians on both parties have been tweeting the same thing the Chinese clearly decided in by the way twitter is not even widely available China right so the Chinese clearly decided to take the the first thing is what the Chinese did here is clearly deliberate and manufactured right right so I honestly do not believe there was any natural movement about freedom and basic human rights for the people of Hong Kong so that tweet something I think literally everyone should be able to get behind but the Houston Rockets are very popular a bill that would have allowed individuals in Hong Kong get extradited to China and then sucked into their horrible legal system which is terrifying but over time they've become a bigger they believe that any speech that challenges national sovereignty and social stability is not within the scope of freedom of speech Holy Shit China other than that they just freaked out they more he was denounced by the Chinese government use denounced by random Chinese businesses denounced by the Chinese Basketball Association which is seems pretty new to me in a little bit ridiculous it seems like they're trying to send an early signal to intimidate the rest of the world to stay out of the sandbox Curious what you think about all of this now lead Bucknell Ming and then and then everybody in the US cave the rockets owner publicly through more under the bus league sources were speculating that he would be fired in China in part because a Chinese player named Yao Ming used to be on the team so the NBA generally in Houston Rockets particularly look at China and they see a billion potential the other league commissioner's Roger Goodell a bunch of fucking idiots Adam silver's like again budget impressive guy either way they made a massive this there are some issue fans and a billion potential wallet so I assume that the popularity of the rockets earned Maurice tweet some extra attention and I don't know how to describe the response from China it quote fight for freedom stained with Hong Kong so that was a reference to the ongoing protests in Hong Kong we talked about this before there's a bunch of protests that have going on for several months now they were initially about like we're we're not going to infringe upon the free speech rights of our players in our employees just to get into your market and in this initial response they did what they always do a double down they released another statement saying quote we oppose silvers claim to support Moris right of free expression this tweet and make it an example to the NBA of don't fuck with Hong Kong right and so they take this enzyme tweet they gin it up their state media key very publications in the NBA releases pathetic statement calling Maurice Tweet regrettable distanced itself from from him China apparently smelled weakness but also if you think there's any risk for Xi Jinping here like hundreds of millions of Chinese nationals who just WanNa Watch them hoops and now Xi Jinping might rob because of so they're referencing NBA Commissioner Adam silver there when I said Silver Adam silver had released another statement Tuesday to try to clean up the botched cleaner them of that pleasure because of something in Hong Kong like that seems stupid yeah I think there's a China angle and then be angled and this is a fascinating story ten pack bullied the NBA into submission silence and I think the MBA market and China's already worth four billion dollars so there's a lot of money on the table right because basketball I think is the most up where he said that the NBA is not going to regulate what players employees say on various issues he's also traveling to China for meetings tell try to smooth this all out I should say like nothing wrong in this the problem of Mori's on creation and they're apologizing the the statement that they put out in Chinese or at least the Chinese translation her appropriately walked back that statement said look like we're not going to police the speech of our employees are players or team employee is when you're dealing with China like the Dalai Lama Taiwan that you know our red lines and you know if you speak out on them the response will be like disproportionate and predictable China freaking out about Hong Kong issues and the NBA's commitment to not policing the speech of its people and better for an American business to be clear what the Chinese upfront and send a message of if you WANNA play ball here you're basically have to sign up to our view of politics and all these different issues and so they they wanted to test whether they could that's it and that's the nature of this relationship in yell as you said Tommy if you want to keep all NBA basketball games off Chinese television because of that then groundswell and Response to Daryl Morey tweet right the general manager of the rockets the guy you look to for tweet something that literally anybody could you know learn American sport there now that's what the Chinese during his for obvious the NBA got it totally wrong out of the box because they clearly looked like more you done I would like to live in a country where we have institutions companies businesses universities etc who are willing to take a principled stand on something rather than just should know that now too you know and whatever relationship the NBA in China works out over time is going to have to account for this tension between China's extreme sensitivity things you have to be very clear in saying no look here's what we're not willing to do we're not willing to tell people they can't tweet about certain things or talk about certain things and Baltics but if we have individuals who are part of the NBA Community and speak their mind we're not gonNA tell them they can't do that and that's kind of the deal right and we did the same thing like into gear they're threatening to shut down businesses they're sending all kinds of messages about you know how this is endorsing separatism when that's not what the and kind of went further than the English one in saying that that that Mori hurt the feelings of all the Chinese people over this you know and it's kind of absurd I think Adam silver it says it's just endorsing basic human rights and this is what the Chinese do if you are an American business trying to get in there pro American media trying to get in there they try to bully you in a Chinese based company to be able to operate there there's a constant risk of intellectual property theft there is a opaque best system you won't get our product and frankly I think it's important for for people companies to to stand for that to the NBA is already profitable you know here's what we will do and part with the NBA could say look we respect you have given political system we kind of you know we respect when we're in China like we're not gonNA attack your palm could access because we're in the middle of a trade war Xi Jinping is locking on everything and then like a beloved sport can get a fastball to the head like this the people there were kind of you know taking a Chinese line on you know these protesters are must be paid by Taiwan or something or I don't know anything about this but you know look at what ten trillion dollar economy that if you're Nike Reebok if you're all these companies you want to do business and but even even if you're a startup hold on these authoritarian systems ultimately diminish the value of what you have to offer in the first place I was in Singapore recently at a conference and I did notice that some of the kind of think once we start compromising the most basic forms of free speech like Daryl Morey deciding tweet you know stand with Hong Kong stand for freedom or whatever it was it might there be some core of these protesters who are who've been violent who've been separatist drew might have some foreign support that's possible but that certainly doesn't explain what's happened in Hong Kong and princelings that have to get paid off I mean there's already massive impediment like again I don't know anything about running a fortune five hundred business that are inspired by impressed by the NBA when they were letting their player expressive variety of opinions on political and social issues where when the NFL needs the Chinese market but boy would this make me nervous about basing any of my business plans or growth over the next decade into on Chinese these were just not gonNa tell them what to what they can and cannot say and that's the right principle position to take but the broader point is it's also right to lay down to the Chinese here are markers right and then you just say like guys come on two million people turn out right like they're not all paid by some foreign power like there's clearly something happening here and yes they would try to go around and bully people into not meeting with the Dalai Lama you know and we said look in they said he was a separatist and he's a terrorist peyot friend of all investigations Benghazi cheerleader blocked him from being part of impeachment Greece notable I think everyone you've probably heard in a fan the Chinese government but then I wouldn't be saying anything interesting right so I think that like the compromises imposed on people to do business or to have a foot so on Tuesday he was supposed to testify before the House Intelligence Foreign Affairs and Oversight Committees as part of the impeachment inquiry but the State Department the Heroic Mike Ah Airbnb or something like that I mean you already have all these enormous hurdles you have to leave to stablest some joint venture partnership and take a minority position I do think the message for an American company and Major American brand like the NBA is if you succumb to bullying it's like anybody then they'll just bull you more you know in the if we can't even say that then we're really truly in the new world yeah I mean I like I'm glad that Adam silver stepped in and cleaned up the cleaned up because I think a lot of people were all these things and we'd be like no look we're just going to be with the dial on we're going to do it and renew regularly and each time they protest but they learn to live with it right and like who is guy why is he involved at all right so Gordon's online is the US ambassador to the European Union and unless I missed some very big news crane is not part of the European Union was pretending that Colin Kaepernick didn't exist in letting themselves get browbeaten by our Xi Jinping Donald Trump via tweet every Sunday for months and months and months who's next yeah because it also gets at like what is the nature of the appeal of something like the NBA right I mean part of the reason why the NBA's becomes so much more popular the previous US ambassador to the EU is a guy named Anthony Gardner now he was a finance guy he was appointed by Obama in two thousand thirteen he was not a career diplomat either but we'll send in trump world at one point during the campaign he publicly distanced himself from trump but he miraculously got this ambassador job by only donating a million he doesn't swing two million people coming out what explains it is the fact that they don't want to live under totalitarian system it's pretty obvious and and that's why yes was no diplomatic experience basically ran a hotel chain he's a big republican donor but it wasn't even a trump donor initially he was a Jeb Bush guy which I thought was like Jab at unforgiven yeah not a not a great early handling of the challenge no no no but it shows you that it's a great the reason that's important stories it's a window into choices that a lot of American in Sunland because of the texts he sent about the ongoing efforts to extort Ukraine for dirt on Joe Biden sunlen is the genius who is always saying call me or like there is that's interesting product over time in you know same thing I could say as a foreign policy analyst I could calibrate everything I say tonight would not normally be involved with Ukraine interestingly the only scenario which the ambassador might be involved is we coordinate with of assistance this guy in other words should be entirely only involved this account in support of providing assistance over the last five ten years is because they have these individuals who are interesting characters and Lebron has been very vocal about his politics that has helped the NBA right the EU in imposing sanctions on Russia in Ba- for what they did to Ukraine and we might coordinate with the EU and the provision did he is getting involved in pressuring the Ukrainian government to do certain things investigating trump's political opponents as a quid pro quo rain right or maintaining the sanctions we have in place with Europe on Ukraine he's doing the opposite in this in this weird scheme trump is concocted that career people are going to be uncomfortable carrying out crimes and acting against the interests of the United States interest in the United States here is clearly a strong Ukraine we're GONNA have to make a bunch China in the coming years right because the Chinese are taking a harder and harder line and what are you willing to compromise to get that market Yup and when is it too much our friend Gordon and like all that he's doing well it's actually actually kind of points to the heart of the issue because you're right the EU ambassador so like I think if if some of the NBA as a bunch of Tommy. John's who were reciting you know kind of Chinese state propaganda lines about things like Hong Kong it actually becomes did they lose some money in China yes is it worth losing your soul to get into that market no and I think in in in all these authoritarian questions role in this discussion into involved at all because the president personally asked him to be so I'll just leave it at that like Ben what do you make of and I think it's it's important for everyone understand how weird it is for someone to have this job in the first place to be a part of talks involving Ukraine given that the US invoke for him despite someone having relevant experience I guess there's a state based relationship whatever but so bad I did a little googling here a lot of heavy research for this episode he advisors to the President of Ukraine like that's not his business so he's not a diplomat in Ukraine he should have nothing to do with Zelenskjaja the people around him he should have to do with the EU trump he's trying to finesse it and then there's just this complete and utter Hack Hengyang Brussels who send these text to these people in Kiev being like you know how assistance in order to get help with the political campaign that's what the Career Guy said on tax smartly laying down a real record laying down a marker trump has declared as one of our top geopolitical adversaries here so what it shows to me is trump has he knows yesterday corrupt foreign policy to get camping out in Brussels and getting up in the shit of people actually know what they're doing in Kiev to try to get them to do a crime and he's talking about like you know the names of of they can stand up for itself against Russia right so he knows okay our ambassador in Kiev wasn't on board that project she didn't want to meet with on and be a part of this so he fires her we're fucking fantastic like Matthew Barzin some of them were terrible like the guy who humility himself at hearings name I don't remember you will block out but like this is a pretty big role no quid pro quo but anyway sorry no no then you've Kurt Volker who was once a diplomat then was out but he's kind of in that world so he's kind of in between right and he's re-litigating that but the southeast texting about like sensitive diplomatic conversations with trump in foreign leaders military aid to Ukraine that is information that foreign adversary in particular Russia with love to have and it should be classified in fact I bet it was in the whole team is just doing their business on their personal phones it to buy bend over this kind of bullying yeah look I run a business that has no chance of ever being a successful in China or allowed in China right so what do I care the record shows and I don't think this is good idea then you've got this guy volkers kind of in the middle right used to be diplomatic but then he kind of ran the McCain institute so he's been appointed Oxford a JD from Colombia masters in Finance Guy Sounds annoying I dislike this guy already he speaks French Italian Spanish dollars through four different anonymous. LLC's trump inaugural committee so that's how things work that's legal corruption yes weirdly Ron Yep let's do little impeachment news give you guys a little well desert here so we are fixed we want to focus today on a guy named Gordon son them to commit his crimes and you can't just ask embassador do it get the ambassador out of the way get my political guy in Brussels to be hammered get these people to do something then these people the the baseline if you're doing anything that is government business you're supposed to do it on a government email account because that is a matter of public record right so read your resume for a second so he was director for European Affairs on the National Security Council during the Clinton administration for a couple of years from Harvard degree in international relations or getting that assistance that he should normally be advocating for and I it speaks to the way in which the State Department that that Donald Trump knows is acting in between he's trying to thread the needle right you've got the career people the career diplomats who know this is wrong and either want nothing to do with it or the writing down bare minimum it should be on State Department email but like these guys are digging around on text an I message as the State Department is going back and looking at every email this isn't being stored for public record now again the problem with that is the People Hillary was emailing were generally the State Department so it was still getting memorialize in the public record who set up this meeting and get rudy meetings and like no here's what president trump wants why on earth is complete unqualified hack partners or whatever you know the signals taking place between CC and some creepy guy who works around trump I mean so Korea talks and policy last week over the weekend North Korea tested a new submarine launched ballistic missile which is a pretty significant technological step forward and they know this Guy Bill Taylor who they put in charge Jay probably not that comfortable doing it either and the techs show that he's like I think it's crazy to leverage and we should note that Sean Lennon reportedly called trump yeah in the intervening five hours between that message being sent in his response which was some cover my ass like I think you are mistaken the irony is at drums hall criticism Hillary Clinton that she was hiding information on another server seems to be precisely how his entire administration conducts business practice and since they hadn't actually launched an IBM or sub base missile and three years it was clearly designed to be provocative then the US and North Korea sat down Loyd what to do about this but trump is basically greenland these short range missile task by saying oh I don't care because he doesn't WanNa look dumb ended up not checking north classification issues aside even though those do come into play like the whole idea is you put this stuff on the government servers precisely so you can't go and commit on for talks in Stockholm for the first time in eight months over a couple of days ago those talks broke down in just a matter of our so like again it's you and I have this conversation they want to commit crimes yeah okay we're going to do a little foreign policy speed dating to close because we got a bunch more but the first thing North Korea I can't believe this is like the threatened in response by the North Koreans in like it just feels like no one is in charge ignorance focus on this nuclear threat getting worse by the day and Ashley spiraling out of Control Except John Bolton Yeah I think you know what's interesting mean watching this first of all when the North Koreans test a whole bunch of Shit sent to Hillary Clinton by her team at the time years ago and potentially retroactively classifying messages to put them in legal jeopardy just like it's so frustrating yeah I mean to be Korea but he's not like denouncing these b. m. test the submarine based tests the Europeans are freaking out about it they want Security Council discussion or session on it they're getting okay we're talking about this for Obama didn't have a perfect record like he obama appointed some donors embassador it happened in a lot of places some of the US getting into pretty sensitive stuff like submarine launchers which by the way if you just think about it would not be a good thing for us the North Korean part of what we've been worried about is can they of all these areas where trump has open accounts Iran China North Korea the North Korea was the one that would be most likely to have some deal because Kim like has an uncomfortable they're like we don't necessarily like these crimes this guy calls back to trump tells trump what's going on trump's I've got a great idea what don't you right no quid pro quo and then we bullshitted you like Hillary Clinton mentioned she talked to foreign leader and they're like Oh that's cost you know but the thing that was a fair criticism was well creating a separate server means earn sanctions and so the north it's pretty remarkable to think about this but they're so comfortable in this kind of status quo were they've given up nothing and in fact they've increased I can only do that with hacks like this who answered nothing other than trump no national interest your million dollar henchmen this is not again this is a side point but it is worth noting it's online and all these guys are having very sensitive policy conversations via text message we just spent an entire election focus on hilary's private server and our emails and because they're basically saying wait a second why should we even agree to anything trump's given us a lifetime get out of jail free card here you know so long as Donald Trump is personally invest usually because they're trying to work something out you know so I remember the first couple of Sicko they fired a projectile maybe they're just doing it for symbolic reasons but now we've seen a clear pattern of different tests and seven item on the list given would happen so last week we talked about how John Bolton the former national security advisor was out like sounding the alarm on literally about the failing Russian military deployments it was signed in Nineteen ninety-two allows all the nations that are party to to basically fly unarmed reconnaissance flights over the other members territory collect information on move missiles closer to us you know to actually reach the United States can they kind of expand the range of what they're able hit well if you can find things from submarines it does open up you know possibility in the appearance of success in his diplomacy with Kim he's not really ever going to do anything there's not gonNA be another UN Security Council resolution there's not going to be more sanctions XIV going to be the enforcement Mr Number of nuclear weapons of increased testing they've improved their missile technology all the trend lines are moving in the direction that in any normal world would be freaking flightpath with like three days notice that gets vetted and agreed to a day before by all sides the equipment uses standardize data collected Get supplied both to the the CBS new National Security Adviser about something the Open Skies Treaty if you've never heard of this treaty you are not alone the gist that helps the US in our European allies monitor we don't see can you imagine the tax between jared and mb s you know like the the what's APP chains Ivanka trump in her China business sample and so angles letter expresses deep concern. The trump administration is considering withdrawing from the treaty in the question I think is why so there's some rumblings that the Russians have been restricting these flights in some areas but that doesn't seem to come close to justifying pulling out altogether especially when there was no president trump getting reelected right so I thought that Kim young men might kind of agree to something symbolic like you know we'll get rid of our big reactor young beyond you can come inspect take our word for it read John Bolton's remarks to Russia things so Tuesday the House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Eliot Engel tweeted out a link to a letter sent to trump what's go to the NBA for a minute so if you guys have not been following this story last week the Houston Rockets General Manager Darryl Maury tweets Oh consultation with Congress or allies or seemingly anyone on this matter so it just it's one of those ones that really makes you wonder why it does because they'll collector and to the country that allowed the overflight so it's just been it's been a helpful tool I think to monitor like Russian military activity in Ukraine for it's on the side so that the public has passed no and so the only valid criticism they had of Hillary Server was that it's not believe the classification stuff because we've talked about that that's kind of the people that this would benefit is Russia right they'd like to get rid of any transparency they'd like to get rid of the predictability that's been part of European security since the end of the Cold War didn't trump declares victory what it seems like now is North Korea so comfortable that they don't even give a shit about that I mean to me the most remarkable thing is that they canceled those talks deep loud but because trump is so adamant that this is working they can just do that in give-nothing-away that that's a remarkable indictment of what a failure this uh-huh part of the reason why their criticisms of Hillary such bullshit is it hillary was emailing all his people on State Department email accounts these people are just texting each other God only knows would you testify in front of Congress that's what's happening here and it just it just shows you that they can't th they're trying to completely distort and corrupt the foreign policy of the United States and correct you can do a lot of this collection the US can at least with satellites but not everyone has that capability so the idea is increased transparency you could plan they got old Russian subs that they could take over to Hawaii they wanted I haven't studied the sub program but it it seems scoring right the thing that's interesting to me is I actually assumed quid pro quo I do not know what have you speak like all the dumb sort of ask covering statements records do not object to not do crime I did not do crimes but so the bigger question for us today certain movements real really makes a certain point it gets hard to escape the fact that all these things help Putin you know allies like this the most our European allies because it gives them a greater sense of that they know what's going on as you mentioned we've been able to use this in Ukraine to kind of UH fascinating story about An elite secretive Russian military unit called unit to nine one five five that specializes in assassination sabotage and espionage 2016 assassination attempts against a Bulgarian arms dealer I'm sure he was nice and an assassination attempt against former Russian military offered named surge weekly weapons there's no verification of what they're doing we're getting rid of all the transparency requirements and understandings around military's operate like that is I and there can be many different dimensions to how they do that they're going to interfere in our politics by unleashing troll armies and thousands of oppressing former prime minister theresa may on the screen poisoning he I guess spent ten minutes telling her didn't believe that Russia was actually responsible for it so and muscle to any treaty any international agreement that you just think we should get rid of them right but again like you're also doing precisely what we know laws we need to set the standard by which we hold Russia accountable right so getting rid of all the laws all the treaties just is yeah like London and cities and so the timing of the report is interesting too since we recently learned during a phone call that president trump was Vladimir Putin wants it'd be hard to design an American foreign policy for the last three years that is more friendly Putin's in just then this kind of systematic dismantling of arms control treaties and arms agreements and kind of predictability around how nations operate in your Jason our point of maximum leverage at the end of the Cold War so that there's no constraints a really good point yeah so that there are no constraints on Russia's ability to build and test going to benefit Russia far more than anybody else in Europe it's just not even a close call I I can't for the life of me think why you would do this unless you're just so high all who spied on Russia and then defected to the Cain was living in London so Ben this is a pretty scary story showing their willingness to assassinate people in foreign countries the norms entreaties in the Russians violate them so what do we need them anyway but that's kind of like saying because there's some people that break the law that there should be lots and sewing division and disinformation they're going to hack different material release at two again so division and disinformation they're going to potentially assassinated poisoner the green light for this kind of behavior I think the second thing that's important having thought about this a lot and live to the two thousand sixteen election and the Ukraine situation everything it's useful to think about the Times described their work as quote coordinated and ongoing campaign to destabilise Europe report says that the unit is responsible for an attempted coup in Montenegro Russian operations now Russia has an operation whose objective is to weaken the west to sow division two west to bully any critics or opponents that they may face emanating from the West and they do that in lots of different ways and one way is this kind of crack unit that might conduct even assassinations twenty-six luncheon and that was an operation that they did and then no I think Russia made a decision probably after Putin came back into the presence in two thousand twelve they're going to go on offense into the West we political opponents in the West and so if you look at it that way mix more sense that this isn't a series of coincidental and another way might be having a troll farm rate is firing off hundreds of thousands of tweets and facebook posts and fake news stories into the American Internet everything Russia has been doing in the West as as one operation you know and what is the what do I mean by that we tend to think of like okay Russia made a decision to intervene it just an interesting sidebar but it's with two because one is connects to what we just talked about it because one way to think about this is people will say well they're all these international laws the Russians are trying to do so through this kind of more insidious offense at their undertaking all of this necessitates very thoughtful coordinated. US response that's what Putin wants it obvious unless talk about who Vladimir Putin is Thanks to some great reporting by your time so on the T- on Tuesday the Times published this six in their agendas we are lowering our defenses. Yeah I mean to be clear the Russians were involved in this assassination plot in Montenegro because they wanted to prevent them from that's how you connect us back what do they not want they don't want NATO to be strong united lines they obviously don't want countries like Ukraine to join European and transatlantic relations joining NATO yes and then response we spent the last two years our president has shitting on NATO and attacking NATO allies that's really important point you just made because it within they ended up not being able to work as a cohesive unit right so they they want to divide the West weaken western institutions undermine the credibility of the democratic they want having these corrupt authoritarian type leaders in power and european-american countries because they're easier to to cut deals with printed the European Union's point by point rebuttal of Boris's latest Brexit plan so bad for Boris an oversight committee is asking Boris to explain his relationship with a woman model the world so as to maintain their power so what they're doing is quite logical even if I find it reprehensible and and we're just not really go system right and and that's really what we're living through which is and it's interesting to take it back to the China the Chinese are trying to bully us through kind of strong arm tactics it seems very sketchy since she's an American lastly and this is a very sad story there's a growing controversy in UK after the wife of diplomat was involved in a fatal car accident and then she fled in coordination with our allies in the dangerous it's just not happening so the time when Russia and China are getting more aggressive assertive in pushing their kind of brand polity uh playing with a full deck and respond oh no we are not okay let's close with the latest on our dear friend Boris Johnson over in the UK so since we last recorded the Guardian has no I imagine that there will be some deep understandable frustration among British citizens who want this woman brought back and questioned in a legal proceeding and if we in that this woman invoke diplomatic immunity fled the country before she be question so you know that's not a problem until it is because that extradition or you know trump bullies Boris in response it could create another political hurdle for him so at things are not going well still

Syria US Isis trump Turkey trump Virginia Korea Hong Kong White House NBA spotify Iraq Afghanistan European Union Boris Johnson UK Washington Isis Syria Turkey
17. Five Dollar Words

How The Heck Are We Gonna Get Along

1:14:33 hr | Last month

17. Five Dollar Words

"Forgotten is a new podcast about hundreds of young women who have disappeared and turned up dead in Juarez. Mexico right across the border from El. Paso Texas, it's a story about borders, migration and corruption. We talked to victims families. FBI agents and a former US ambassador to understand why these crimes remained unsolved. Listen to Forgotten Women of Juarez on the iheartradio. APP or wherever you get your put costs. For the week of Thursday June twenty fifth rallies, protests, Corona viruses, Saharan dust clouds, the loch ness monster is back and a Friday night massacre twenty twenty continues to be the year. That keeps on giving a shit. Klay after two weeks of single-party episodes with a little shuttle diplomacy politic con returns to form this week, and to our regularly scheduled programing with a multi partisan panel to answer questions like where is president trump's focus at the moment. What exactly is bill bar up to and who might be the next casualty in the current wave of culture cancellations? Limassol returns to the pod this week. He's a frequent contributor on networks like MSNBC AND CNBC and he's the justice correspondent for the Nation Henry Olsen is an author and a columnist for the Washington Post and been dominant is a political contributor for multiple TV networks and the publisher of the federalist. They're here to help us answer those questions, and hopefully also answer. How the heck are! We GonNA get along. How Everyone Ellie Henry, been. Harry all this evening. Air Conditioning, we. You're right. Where are you right now? Ali I'm in Westchester which is usually by but. My. Office has air conditioned wheeler. Well I am I. It was I was just telling the producers a little bit ago, it was like in the sixties and seventies last week, and it is ninety eight ninety seven today, and the humidity is like walking through superior. It's awful and been you're in DC yeah. yes, and we. We're actually okay. Today I'm I'm sure that Henry's here as well but. It's actually pretty nice outside. Elliott just would tell you. I noticed that you were writing about Naomi row. You should You should think Senator Josh Holly, for the fact that she will never be a supreme court nominee. Don't have anything to worry about on that front. Are you sure about? What happened? What happened Ellie? Naomi just a dinner thing today. On the. Bill Bar. Michael Flynn saying at her opinion is just it's. It's classic row it's. I I've I've had known as the most dangerous justice that trump's appointed since she got her nomination, today was just another another day. Will Henry can yes so feel me and what happened? What was her reasoning behind throwing this out because I have to admit I'll just throw it out here right now. I have turned the TV news off because it's just driving me crazy, so read a little bit about it, but. Been Tell me what happened with this? Why did why did she determined that? This case could be thrown out? I'm not actually surprised by her. Decision but it's one of these systems. One of the prompts with this situation is. You're faced with a situation where? Who would you ask in the Department of Justice as a substitute? Try this case given their. Their attitude is the way that it is I'm not that surprised, but I am wondering if Sullivan will find a different way to sort of extend this out a little bit. Maybe kick the can and see if they have somebody different a few months from now to continue this the politics of this is pretty intense. Might take claims that the real issue with this is that it's an unprecedented move where she's issued a decision about how judge Sullivan has to rule on his motion before Judge Sullivan rules on his motion. Right like that. That's a lot of the the the the crazy comes in for me that there's an argument I wouldn't agree with it. There's an argument that Judge Sullivan could've refused the motion to dismiss essentially, and then row could have come over the top and set like actually. No, you have to like Brantley there. Lots of different ways. There's lots of different ways. This could have been skin but for her. To have this decision before Sullivan is even allowed to make his ruling on his motion that he simply asked at this point for more briefing and more evidence from that's. That's the that's the. That's the only row special sauce. Right that that's the different thing about trump judges from you know regular Republican judges that I would generally disagree with, but but as I said you should, you should write a thank you note to Josh. Holly because he you know in his process of of of holding her up during confirmation, you know gotten admission of her from her that she is personally pro choice and and doesn't think has opinions on abortion that are not in line. With the base of the Party and that means that she'll never be a Republican nominee this court, so you should be grateful for that. Does, is it? Is it just a Naomi row issue though I mean. Henry is the the Justice Department in general has had quite a week. It's not just this Michael Flynn case, but but the this Friday night massacre on on last. Friday I don't know if we're calling it a firing, a a pressuring to resign Irma from the from the. Federal Attorney in the Southern District of New York. What what exactly is going on at the justice? Department right now. It seems as if though there really aren't again. own my bias. I'm on the left, but it seems as if there really are not many rules being followed There's not much order going on. What what's your take on? What happened on Friday with with Attorney General Bar. Henry. Announcing the resignation of Permanent York. Well And the these US attorney serve the at the pleasure of the president. You Know Bremen had no. Right to the job and Apparently there was some wires crosses to weather. He was going along with what. Attorney General are later made clear in his letter was ongoing discussions. but I. Don't think we know why he was fired. Because that's ultimately what did. but I just think there has been so much attempt to paint the president and his team lawless regardless of the facts that. I would take what was said. Without strong evidence with very big grain of salt. Do you think that? What do you think that the investigations that were being undertaken in the southern district? Do you think that some of the cases? Some of the the convictions that he? Achieved, in the southern district had anything to do with why the president was unhappy with him, and if so is that, is that a reason my point is i. don't think anybody knows I. Think there's a lot of people on the left who want to believe that, but I don't think anybody knows what the reason is i. think that we should generally presume good faith on behalf of people from both parties, unless demonstrated otherwise, but that doesn't seem to be a something that is on offer for people in. Straight I would I would just suggest is that I think that that decision on the part of Berman that back and forth the Wall Street Journal, reported about his unwillingness to sign onto that letter, criticizing Bill de Blasio for treating Orthodox, Jewish communities different than protesters I mean. I know that they've the public statement from Kerry? Koubek and the Justice Department is that that did not play a role. In Attorney, general bars decision to abruptly fire him. I don't know that that's a position that a lot of people in New York on the right side of the spectrum in the legal community believe. That to defy going along with something that seems to be a pretty basic thing to just sort of tell built blasios that he needs to enforce the law equally when it comes to these communities as opposed to engaging in what I believe, it's been a systemic approach to targeting these communities as if they're the worst offenders, maybe they are. Maybe they aren't, but it smacks of antisemitism in a way that is I, think really toxic and awful, and I think that there was pressure politically to make a statement. To sort of brush back against these restrictions that had been seemingly targeted against a religious community, and he clearly didn't go along with that and very quickly after that. Follow this decision I. It's hard for me to believe the two things aren't connected. Okay, so let me. Get in here. I just want to make sure I wanna get you in here. Elliott but I WANNA. I WanNa make followed that also been so you're you you're. Correct me if I'm getting it wrong. Your position or your your theory is that there might there must have been sort of connection between his unwillingness to sign onto this letter and his sudden removal from the position. that it that it just seems to, it just seems to close in approximation and the fact that they had spent a day basically arguing about it. And with him, saying no and the top sort of flight insistent. Yes, to me. That was just kind of I. It's the type of thing that's a last straw if you're already irritated with somebody. It seems like if you're going if you're going, make a jump like that to say that it must have been this then. It's also not a big leap. If you're willing to make that assumption, it's also not a big leap for people on the left to say. It really seems as if though it probably had something to do with the fact that he prosecuted. Michael Cohen and that he was investigating Rudy Giuliani. I mean. Is it. To be able to make those two also I think I think it's certainly possible to be all of the above. It's just in this case the fact that they had this dispute apparently and. The reporting seems to be pretty solid. That was ongoing on the eve of his dismissal. That you know, the the thing that seems to happen with this administration is that there's always kind of a last straw dispute. There were certainly one in the instance of John Bolton there was there's been. Instances of a lot of other people who've been dismissed and I think in this case you know. Maybe they were already irritated with him at things that he was doing, but I think this smacks last straw dispute just as that's my own personal opinion without any additional information other than what Wall Street. Hop in here. What are your thoughts? I? Just reject the notion that I'm supposed to treat bill bar and this administration with good faith, right? Because, they have not done a single thing to earn it, and I'm not required to wake up every day like a newborn babe. Who looks at the world as if it is new, it is not new bill bar has not done a single thing to earn one Scintilla of my trust. He auditioned for this job promising that he would essentially end the molar investigation, which he then did, and then lied about it, and misled the public about what the more investigation was really about. He has not for one moment of his tenure acted like an impartial of a lawyer and instead acted like trump's lawyer. For the entire time. This is the second time during the trump administration where they have fired the head of Sdn wide, which is significant, because Suny has jurisdiction over trump's business and his family business, and that's why. Why the IMF does suggest the the the thought is that there was something shady going on here and let's not forget finally that the only reason why Jack Berman had this job is because trump refused to points a head for the s for the ESPN. Why after he fired pre Bra again, not trying to kneecap the office that is in charge of getting his personal business. I'm not required to forget all of that. I don't required required to fire I. DON'T I? Don't think you're required to forget any of that. Of course not I mean. I didn't take air colder seriously when he was of course. The last Attorney General held in contempt of Congress for refusing to testify not. Avoiding and defying subpoenas, you know that we're com- completely based in factual reporting, regarding the fast and furious program. I mean I. Don't think that any Republican took him seriously as attorney general. I. Don't see why any some who's on. The left would take a bill bar seriously as attorney general. We're in a divided situation right now I don't think that that's going to change anytime soon. Elliott don't don't. Is there not something to be said for the fact that they replacement? That's that's the person who's GonNa. Take a Berman's place in New York Audrey Strauss. Has Been his deputy and is not necessarily I mean some people have claimed that she might actually be tougher on the trump administration if if his goal was truly and I know I know when someone's going to help me with the name, but I'm not the initial plan. To appoint Jay. Clayton from New Jersey right as the as the interim. Or the new. Attorney US Attorney Sdn y but. If if bill bar stepped back and said okay, we'll follow the. We'll follow the law audrey. Strauss will take over Audrey Strauss's someone who's been there for a long time and is probably likely not going to take it easy on Donald Trump in any way or take it easy on his friends. Is, they're not reason to at least concede that perhaps bill bar. Is playing by the rules right there actually I think you said when you I think you said it right in your setup for the question bill bar step back and decided to follow the law. Trying to be unbiased, do it. Wasn't as I call first call was support Jay. Clayton, who is trump's golfing buddy to had again? The the body that has original jurisdiction over trump's businesses right now afterglow up into space, and that that has everything to do with Berman's backbone in this situation, not bars. Wants Berman stood up to bar bar was forced into as you put it following the law following the succession plan something that the trump administration has regularly tried to avoid to put this deputy career civil servant in his in in Berman's place. Strauss seems like a good i. I in why? Henry, why would why would? Why would the president or the attorney general want to appoint someone who has never been a prosecutor before to to that role? Someone who was a golfing buddy of the president's but someone who's not been in a position like that all what would be the motivation behind that I? Really don't know what the motivation would be on that, but I do think the question is in a district like the southern district of New York. You can rest assured that there are plenty of career or a civil service non political appointee. Appointee attorneys, who, if the trump administration is being investigated or if the trump organization is being investigated, are Wellin- possession of facts that if the investigations were being politically with how would have both the motive in the means to easily leak it to the press? So this is why well so is that really the way you want your the US? Attorney's Office to work I. Mean just because anyone. There anyone who thinks that's not how attorneys work is hopelessly naive. Yet, but don't they usually put a US attorney in the US? Attorney's position usually filled with someone who's been a prosecutor I mean you're not going to point me to that role or Elliott's not an turning. I I wasn't attorney once I'm not an attorney now. The fact is I don't follow. who gets a pointed as US attorneys and I. Haven't made that my career in looking at the past. Career, prospect or client has career A. Of people who end up being appointed to US attorney, I do think that if you think that the trump organization is being investigated by St N. Y. that you will likely find out that a either. That's true and things are going to proceed, or if they weren't going to proceed, you would find out about it. Another way to jump to the conclusion without evidence is something that I find very distasteful. So Henry. Do you think that the prosecution? The investigation that we know is happening on answer originally think that goes forward regardless of this. I think that it will go forward regardless of this move. If the investigation continues to bear fruit, that law could potentially have been broken the other thing is that I have not heard anyone. Tell me that there are statutes of limitation that are being run up against that somehow if Rudy Giuliani did violate a law that the delay of a investigation from July until January when Joe Biden would be able to appoint his own us. Attorney would somehow be materially damaging to the course of justice. It may be materially damaging to. To the attempt to politically attack the president, because that would be timed after the election, but if concern is the rule of law, no one's told me that there's any statute of limitation that Rudy Giuliani can escape or somebody under investigation can escape until January their Scott free again. The question is is this politics that you're concerned about? Not You, Ellie, but the people who are talking about this more generally, or is this the rule of law? I don't see how the rule of law is being disturbed. One iota by what's going law. been. Well I don't know if he wants to respond to that, but I was going to ask as sort of a broader question about this, which is the? We I do think that the the there are a lot of little interesting moments that we've learned about in the trump administration where we think something really significant is happening. That's going to. Bear fruit or have some deep ramifications as to the future of his presidency, and my feeling is that most of the time that turns out not to be true, and that within just a very brief say three or four days. We have forgotten the moment in question. The beginning of this week. We were talking about his. Terrible turnout in Tulsa, and we're getting to that, don't you and And and you know and we were, and we've been talking about a number of other. You know this this sort of sarcastic line. That may not be sarcasm about testing in the like. His frustrations with dealing with. A situation that he sold himself to voters as being exactly the kind of person handle in terms of authority and law and order, and now just this evening We're learning that the National Guard is deploying four hundred troops. In Washington DC to defend various monuments, potentially setting up clashes with protest groups i. just kind of feel like in this presidency this this is an interesting moment in the sense that you know the firing or the resignation of Berman. It's something that. Have Future. Ramifications I. Don't think we can say that at the moment, but I do think that this is one of those situations where There's so many things happening that we have to try to pick out which is the one that is most important, and I didn't even mention John Bolton in that sentence. Listen. This is it's like drinking from a fire hose? Sometimes on this podcast because there's so many things to talk about, I definitely want to get to that, but Elliott. WanNa. Let you have the last word on on this. Justice Department discussion. If there's anything you wanted to respond to with from Henry or been Larry joined, and only I. Only throw this out here. In the spirit of this odd chasm, the spirit of let's all get along since Ben brought up one about as with Eric. I. Do not see how the trump administration we cannot get ourselves to the point where we realized that the Department of Justice has to be de-politicized. Wherever, you think about the politics of whatever you whether whether you're left right or centre? I think we can clearly see that. Having the Justice Department be just another political appointee like the EPA director or the Secretary of Energy does. Not Real damage the law which I think it does then certainly perception damage to the wall, having a situation where look, the constitution is relatively relatively clear here. The president gets the point the his cabinet right, but we could by statutes say that once appointed the Attorney General Serbs six years and can't be fired right like we. We can do that by statute. Having statue where the where the attorney general was not subject to the political whims of the president would be a good thing, and it's a lesson that we could learn. After Richard Nixon fired his way into Robert. Folk so in the spirit of getting along I would hope or after John F.. Kennedy hired his brother right. Let's talk about what? Everybody's doing all in there. Just two slightly back against that, my concern with that would be that what we would end up with is a lot of people who look like they are. Elite trustworthy. Stand up. Righteous Citizens to occupy the office, and that gives you someone like James Comey. Who you know whatever you think of him. In the in the current context is trump critic in my view in the twenty sixteen period in his handling of the Hillary Clinton investigation virtually every decision he made, you can make a stronger argument for the opposite you know just at every stage, and in ways that both would have potentially helped her or hurt her with. The danger with those kinds of things is that you end up with someone who satisfies the elite sinecure of of Washington without necessarily being someone who can actually serve the country and the best way, but here's the thing. It's kind of. You're damned if you do damned if you don't. Do, you want the partisan. Who's going to defend the person in the White House and looked their interest. Or, do you want someone who is more of an `institutionalised who will suggest that the Department of Justice can do no wrong, and will not take a necessarily a strong eye toward the corruption of those institutions which I think are just shot through with all sorts of problems both corrupt, corrupt, wise and idiocy wise that has nothing to do with partisanship. Delete some as a problem either way. Though like you, you can go back and look. There are clips of me. Me On television fighting was liberals window bars for what was I. Put up right I was one of the guys look looking at Iran Contra. Look at this cover letter that he wrote I'll do this. The right guy and I had other liberals other former federal prosecutors who were on the liberal side telling me no, no bar's going to be fine, so the the elitism cuts both ways I don't. I don't know that there's any way around that I think. This if we had done if we'd had this law and you're gonNA fire, the AJ Jeff sessions would still be attorney general right now which I somehow think would be better and I. Got No, no. You, know what listen to their. I'm still. I'm still looking at sinecure I. If I. If we if we were playing a drinking game for five dollars words, I'd be drunk. Rejoinder sinecure who I'm lost. Let's let's talk. Let's let's talk about somebody who doesn't know what those two main either because Asher as hell don't Let's go back to this topic that we were we did start the week out out with and I was going to start the episode with that I got sidetracked here. Yeah, trump's rallies been. You mentioned him in a minute ago? You said something about how you know. It seems like every time something comes up. It's going to be. The thing that that brings down the presidency or you said something to that effect. There has there has seemed to be consistency. Over the past three years that nothing he does seems to affect the enthusiasm of his base right, but there was a little bit of. A. Downturn in enthusiasm, last Saturday at his rally and Tulsa. Whose fault was that? Is that because the Tigers and Some, other people on social, media! Sucked up all his reservations, the the trump campaign says that's not the case, but I would think they would grab onto that excuse because the alternative is, people are worried about corona virus and didn't WanNa. Come or his enthusiasm is actually down. which do you think it was been? So I I think it was kind of everything I mean. I think that there was a a little bit of a tock sort of trolling factor but in terms of the reporting that we've seen that actually digs into it. That seems to have been a little bit of a sideshow i. do think that one of the things I noticed because I get a about. You know I'm. I'm not telling you that I'm an important person, but the Donald Trump campaign emails me about twelve times a day and the Joe Biden. Out. Brag about that. So, they're always asking for my interest. I mean it's amazing. But. One of the things that you do notice is that they were pushing this rally very hard and they made it very easy to sign up. You could have signed up basically with two clicks, and that means that I think there were a lot of folks signing up just out of some expression of support, even if they weren't from near there and had no intention of going I also think it was a huge mistake on their part to hold this whole thing in an indoor arena, there's a big psychological effect at this moment on the difference between being indoors and being outdoors I was at the indoor arena in South Carolina where he had his last big right before that South Carolina. Vote that obviously. started the Biden comeback on led to his nomination and. Being there there was a crowd inside the stadium of I would say about Twelve thousand or so, and then outside you know maybe another couple of thousand it was it was a crowd that was I think fairly Of of his approach this time around you know if you had less than half of that I would say the the problem is. I don't think you can necessarily extrapolate from that and I don't think it's all that significant the scheme of things. He seemed a lot more on point when he was speaking to these youngsters at the turning point conference in Phoenix the other day. Seemed a lot more. And a little bit more of himself, but he thrives on this stuff. He really needs it. In order to have any thrives on the enthusiasm right. He thrives on the crowd. Doesn't have the crowd like the difference between someone who's a caffeine addict when they don't have their morning coffee, or they're red bull, or half you when he doesn't have that, he gets very lacklustre very quickly, and I think that this was as much a an effort on the part of the campaign to inject some energy in a candidate who's been frustrated by confronting some real challenges as a president in terms of the last couple of weeks with a little bit of energy. It didn't work in Tulsa. They'll have to find ways to make it work going forward. Henry! What do you think is the reason that he didn't have that turnout? I think one of the big things was just a huge mistake with the campaign and setting expectations that one of the first things I learned as a aspiring teenage political activists is always have a crowd that is larger than your space, so if you're gonNA. Reserve a nineteen thousand seat arena. You'd better Dr Welby sure you can fill up and I think that they shouldn't. Everybody has in the past right he has been. Able to fill those but he hasn't had. It happened after the rumors and I think first of all they massively overestimated the ability of people or the willingness of people to go indoors in order to hear him speak, and I think that they had massively mis-read. Watt those supposed million RSVP's actually met. You know clearly has been mentioned. There was not a hard commitment to actually attend on behalf of many of them, and I think part of it was. An attempt to manage as Vincent the. Candidate who needed is morning jolt of coffee, but the way they did. It ended up. Grading a big embarrassment. You? Don't you really don't think there's any indication that his support is waning or that? People are less enthusiastic I mean. I know we don't trust polls implicitly, but the New York Times upshot this morning I think had him at thirty in the Mid Thirties in support and Joe Biden at fifty percent nationwide. There is a lower level of enthusiasm for the president. Right now is they're not no. It does lower level of support. But that what we're talking about? His enthusiasm among his base is base. Isn't that much smaller? What he's doing is losing the people who weren't likely to come to these rallies anyway. The sort of casual supporter of trump and I think he looks very bad for re election right now. I don't think there's any way to read. The date of that are coming out in the thing that a disaster for the president is much likelier than a victory, but that shooting kids Brad, Pascall. A, dead man walking. Out Not Convinced Brad Pascal has really been in charge of this campaign for quite some time you read our local people who are following this detail and they said that the real person charged strategy aspects of the campaign is jared as can see. Bringing back people like Brad Step. Corio dowse keys just see sense of let's Assembly old team again and I suspect that in reality he's much more of an organizer. An the data guy which is known as except Vin rally refresh that we all know that Kushner. Who runs this? Really is the president the president this all campaigns reflect the candidate, but the trump campaign like the trump organization before it really isn't expression of one man's personality and one man's well, and other people trying shape, but he really is his own campaign in some. If he's if it's his will, then what that image of him getting off? Marine, one say la. The IT got turned into a mean a lot, but I mean. Do you think that. Do you think that he felt? His numbers I mean he hasn't believed the polls obviously for a hot second when they don't when they don't show what he wants them to show, but there was definitely a difference about the way about his mood and his way he carried himself when he got off Marine One. You saw that video I'm assuming. Of course. I look, there's a thirst on my side of the aisle for trump to be said. This man has caused so much pain. To so many people so many people who you know don't look like him. Don't have as you know. Why aren't mail Art Straight? He's anybody looks like him actually. Talk. He's caused so much pain to so many people any seems to enjoy doing it right. He seems to be having fun. All the time I think that's fair. Do you think he enjoys hurting people, or do you think he enjoys pumping absolutely? Well that's all that's different thing, but I absolutely think. Oh, come on, now I actively I i. honestly think that this person is psychopath who enjoys other people's suffering and I will die on else. That's not Michael. Come on. Let. Him Die on the hill. I agree with you. Come on. Your points finish. The because of that feeling. I think there is a feeling on the left that way. He is sad. Things are going well, and so that means that that moment of him seaney all depressed and sad face. As he got off the as off the helicopter that made people feel like. Hey, this is happening. Some actually losing I can tell look how sad he is. And I and I push back against that I. Am I am worried about that I'm worried about how I am worried about the need. I think we have for trump to be sad. Because just because the man is sad doesn't mean that he's losing and I think Henry. while. You know while saying that. Things don't look great for trump right now. It's important to make a distinction between his support which has always been around this level versus enthusiasm of I don't think there's actually good evidence that his enthusiasm is. Way is waning. You know trump has an incredibly dedicated group of supporters that group of supporters shows up to boat. That group of supporters is over represented in the Electoral College to think that this man is beatable or wounded. Because some K pop fans ruined is Kobe. Rally I think is is the wrong lesson to take from this, and so I worry about the as as you put. I worry about the naming of sad trump. That's not the point. The point is to beat him in an election and nothing that help it happen. It's also a helps Democrats. Beat trump in an election. that. Right about that for a slightly different reason, which is that? What people who want trump to lose should want. Is that face in November? The problem is that he has that face now, and that's a recognition perhaps of the reality, which which Henry was laying out. I think the biggest support for or help for the left in this election is the Hubris of the trump campaign and operation, which having defied the odds so many times before. You know is frequently of the mind that you know. Even if the odds say this, oh, that's ridiculous. You know that we don't believe those numbers It would be better for the left if that was still the attitude that they have but I think that right now. The attitude is much more awareness that they are coming. They're going to have to dig out of a hole that they're going to have to spend all of that money that they have amassed in smart ways. That, they are going to have to force Joe Biden out of the basement and onto the field Because until they have that I think that what we've learned is that he has been. Unable to define Joe Biden as being a lackluster. or or slow candidate in the way that he would like to. Well. That's that's you're headed exactly where I wanted to go, Henry I I wanted to ask if in his mind as he walked out of that Marine One helicopter was Oh. CRAP, that didn't go the way that I wanted it to go. That didn't go the way that I hoped it would go if he had that sadness in that moment. Is He capable? Of Making Change mid course do you think that something? been hit the nail on the head. As far as I'm concerned. He has really gone off gut instinct and fallen into success in some ways time and time again over the past three years four years. If you count twenty sixteen. Is He capable of making the changes that might be necessary now that he realizes Oh crap. What I thought was going to work may not be working. No I think he is not, he is capable. Is Capable of shifting issues and shifting emphasis as he sees reactions, or he sees opportunity so shifting from Biden is not up to the job to biden as weak on China or the Democrats on immigration. He certainly capable of that, but he really needs knows only one political speed, and that is divide and conquer. He believes that by. Creating sharply divisive messages he riles up support and then he can win. That's basically what he's been doing for five years and I think particularly with covert and floyd murder that. A people in the middle, the people he needed to get in order to win. The Electoral College wanted a different type of leader. And they have seen over the last two months that he's not that type of leader. He can't do it and I think it's going to be very difficult for him to win. Those people back using the old playbook given the times and the concerns we have. So the divide and conquer thing, it may be what he doubles down on then and as Ben just just told us we didn't know beforehand. Four hundred National Guard troops have been called out in DC to guard some of these monuments certainly. We are at a time right now. In this country and have been for the last few weeks where Race is a hot topic. Equality is a hot topic It's gotten a lot of attention that I think it's needed for years and years but it has allowed in some ways for the president to double down on his. Divisive, And, so, what do you think happens with this? You're the one who informed me of it so I'll let you talk about it I. The these new National Guard troops that are out to protect confederate monuments I guess other monuments also in D. C.. is it is really. Do you think it's really being done by the President? In order to protect monuments, or do you think it's being done to to? Protect his his standing with his base. I think the past couple of days have been. Really bad for not just the president, but the entire Republican Party when it comes to this issue that no. In the past several years Klay as you know and really going back decades, Republicans conservatives and their organizations have done an enormous amount of work fundraising off of wrapping the flag around themselves like bill, the butcher or something like that and raising a heck of a lot of money. As the defenders of the American founding you know all of these leftists want to tear these people down rhetorically. At least we're going to stand with them once they raise that money, then use it to argue for lower tax rates, and for less regulation for large businesses and other things here and there, but really when it comes to the cultural fight about history. They've ceded the turf to a left that. Has Much more in common with the sixteen nineteen project, and you of American history is being. Fundamentally corrupted by the sin of slavery and everything else attendant with it. Last night in Madison we saw the the. Decapitation of a union soldier and anti slavery worker, his statue was hauled through the street and thrown in the lake We saw the bringing down of a progressive feminist statue. We saw an openly gay democratic state senator attacked in the street for filming some of the protesters. And Beaten by eight to ten of them. He ended up in the hospital. The point is this is stuff that's out of control and I think that regardless of whether these cities are run by Democrats or not, they are. This redounds to a situation where a president who has talked so much about law and order is viewed as being incapable of making that happen I. think that he's going to have to take significant steps in the coming weeks to change that narrative I think that Republican politicians very few of them have been willing to stand with him on this point I think they're all pretty nervous about what could happen. But I. Think they're going to have to make a choice here because you can't run as the Party of law and order, and then have people who care about them, witness, these very statues of these founders, who they respect regardless of their sins, being torn down, and have that be something that happened from their perspective on your watch. And Care about statues. I. Care about explain that Claire. Just dig into that a little bit more so i. know what you mean by that. Look if. If there is a statue that in some of these protests gets torn down. That shouldn't be and we can debate should or shouldn't I tend to think for instance that ulysses s Graham is a hero is a good guy, is a guy who's who has an interesting and important history or role to play in American history. Was He perfect note? Did he own slaves? Yes. The free that sleep. Yes, that's an important part of stories. I think, but my my point is I think grants again. God I would not have torn down grant statue, but you know what we can rebuild grant statue. I would. I would be willing to do Tabula Rasa right turmoil, Dell, and then we can rebuild the ones that we want in a pluralistic society because the thing is, is that so many of these statues were created or rected or supported? Back during a time when people who look like me didn't get a vote didn't get a say. Did they have an opinion to an opportunity to express our opinion on who should be honored on in our country in our states in our communities right so now that we? Are living in a more pluralistic society. Where everybody gets a vote, a voice a chance to voice their opinion. Let's not knock down whatever you down, and we can all come together as a nation and bigger out cooler, going to redirect right, but that would that pluralistic society really at this point allow anyone statute to be up? I mean yes, we are allowing, but if we're allowing people to veto. If. We're allowing any anyone. Veto anyone then. We. GonNa find that. But I guess I'm just I'm trying to figure. I've heard over the last week or so. People saying that George Washington should not be memorialized in statues. Thomas. Jefferson should not be Mount Rushmore should be reconsidered. Teddy Roosevelt was was. was a colonialist I mean. We we do live in a society where every voice gets amplified so much that do you not worry that? If we sort of cleared everything and started from from scratch? No one would ever agree that anyone deserved. Adult adulation like that no and the reason why? I I come at this from the from the position of always being a minority in society like the. The the fact is that just because there is a small group of people saying one thing that doesn't mean that holds true for the majority of the country, and it doesn't mean that true for majority of the minority that you're talking about right, so yeah. But. It's still making a lot of people I mean Jimmy. Kimmel has been in the news a lot this week because he had. He's been called out for some black face he did in sketches back in the late ninety s early, two thousands Do you think that that is a fair? Criticism to to to have of him to dig that up from from way back. Do you think that his show would be cancelled? Or do you think that that's just a small minority of voices who are calling for that? GonNa. Try to answer them all. But it does. My and it's because I disagree with the premise of the question, right? Is it better to dig that up. That's it's. It's white. People who today or yesterday figured out that Jimmy Kimmel black face back of day black I'm not disagreeing with that black people. Black people been talking about how maybe Jimmy Kimmel's Whiteface was made him not the best spokesperson for some of the racial and social justice issues that he has. Spoken about black, evil been knew about Tina. fey Is. History of putting black face on her show and thirty rock black people been there about aunt Jemima being racist. We been knew about Uncle Ben. Being a racist caricature like our issues that black people have talked about or a while the difference. Doesn't want the dip doesn't affect things though to take inches off of off of the box. Does that improve does that? Is that an improvement in your? I don't think I should have a racist type. Stare me in the face every time I go into the painting. I think so no brainers. The difference in this moment is that white people for the first time in a lot of these situations are noticing some of the racial problems that black people have been talking about an act of agitating about for some time. So, what do we do that right? So that's to my first your first part of the question like I. Do not think it is unfair to Jimmy Kimmel to point out some crap that Jimmy Kimmel actually. Nobody lie and Jimmy Kimmel like he did that now. How do we go forward? Well? One of the things that we have seen in one of the things that can the majority of black people, the majority of people color tend to coalesce around. Is that okay? Understand what you did wrong? Understand why it was wrong. Apologize and before. Jimmy Kimmel can apologize in move fourteen vacant. Apologize before we can do the right think. Uncle Ben can be changed into Peter. Parker's uncle bed with great rice comes great responsibility. We can do this. It's not hard. It just requires a reckoning with the past and what's happening episode so roll that back into the statues were canceled culture, or whatever it's that there are people who don't want us to even be able to reckon with the past we must be able to reckon with the past in order to move forward if we can do that, we can move or with some of our heroes still understood in their fuller context. And some of them, not so one of the things that I like to point out on Al with this. It's not just that so-and-so-and-so's double Jeremy Support They supported the confederacy umbrella. Is that they're also bad losing generals who? Who are who who statues who whose names were erected, not because they were great American heroes, but simply because. They stood for oppression against the black community. So when you look at Fort Bragg named after Braxton, Bragg, who was a minor? Pretty crap confederate general. Why is it that for name? For early after joop early, who was a really good confederate general? I'll tell you why Jubal. Early after the war kind of recanted his crow slavery, Pro Oppression, pro segregation ways jubal early win onto become a pretty decent human as so when it came time for the clan to start erecting statues all the places. Let's not let's not erect a statue jubal early. She was with us in the air, but Braxton Bragg who just got. All across Tennessee Oh Braxton Bragg. who were going to put the fourteen right? It's that kind of unlearn more I've I've lived. I've lived in north. Carolina my entire life I ran for Congress and my district included Fort. Bragg, and I've learned more about Braxton. Bragg in the last three minutes from you than I ever knew about him. In my entire forty two years. Is that I mean I wanNA. Get Henry in here. Still up in. I think that there's an element of this that we're leaving out. Which is simply that? So, much of this conversation seems to revolve around the confederacy and around slavery You know my family. My father's family was not American until after. Teddy, Roosevelt charged up San Juan, Hill and so. We don't really have the same opinions about things that happened before. We got here. and I wonder whether too much of this is going to go into a direction where people who feel like. Their own cultural icons. That have nothing to do with this civil war focused confederacy focused conversation or getting torn down. Feel like they're getting sucked into this in a way. That is deeply unfair. I think about that. You know particularly in the mind of some of my Italian. Friends who have been very defensive about statues of of Columbus you know keeping in mind that you know in many instances you know those stashes were put up. In the Nineteen Thirties by their grandfathers and great grandfathers as a symbol of of Italian American acceptance. As fully American in in this country and they don't view them as having anything to do with justice for George Floyd on one side or the other, they don't see why they should be sucked into this in terms of their own symbols in their own cultural heritage, and and I think that one of the things that we need to be in mind, Keep in mind here is that when we view this through the lens of what's GonNa Happen? In November twenty twenty! we shouldn't lose sight of all the people who feel like they're participants outside of this debate or that they're being lumped into one side or the other in an unfair manner. Henry I WANNA I WANNA ask about. Whether or not. There has been a that some of this. Cancel stuff in your opinion has become a bit of a distraction. We don't talk we we. We spent the first week after George Floyd's murder and maybe the second week after George fluids murder talking a lot about police Changing policing culture in this country, talking a lot about the need for some some systemic changes to the criminal justice. Reform to criminal justice system, sorry. But, but we don't hear that as much anymore. And I and I wonder if you think that some of the focus on taking down statues and changing the names of forts or schools or whatnot has has. Helped has kind of. made the the real systemic changes lose some momentum I. Can't help but think of hearing Lindsey Graham right after George. Floyd was killed Lindsey. Graham from South Carolina actually admit you know I. I'm now. I'm asking people in South Carolina. Black Friends of MINE BLACK PEOPLE IN MY STATE And I'm understanding that I see a cop and feel very differently than my black friends do There was sort of for a week or so almost a meeting of the minds I daresay that happens very often in this political climate in this in this country anymore, but there was a little bit more of an agreement to try to sit down and try to do some things to change. The culture around criminal justice, but have we lost that because we've we've focused too much on some of the band aid. Things Henry well. You know I think that. What you're seeing is with some of this statue. Stuff is kind of a hijacking of the spirit that came out of the nearly universal revulsion over what happened with George Floyd and out. And other murders I saw the video of the murder of the gentleman who was murdered. In the parking lot in Atlanta in. Who thinks that WHO does that? Who shoots a drug man running away armed with the Taser in the back. and but it's been hijacked by the Blue ever-broader agenda broader agenda to discredit America end the restaurant culture more generally in. It'd be very good to get back to the focus of look we've got we got. Race problems in the country I don't think anyone who's old enough would say that we are where we were in one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty four. We've got better, but that doesn't mean we don't have a fair ways to go but attacking George. Washington attacking Andrew Jackson over. That's much more divisive, and for those people who are doing that that has to be there in town, and that's not helpful to American unity. It's not helpful to the ongoing redefinition of American identity that. That is a hallmark of America with the exception of the civil war. We've been able to redefine ourselves peacefully and I think that's something that people on both sides need to recapture which is, we can disagree about things, but we have a joint commitment to the American process of having these conversations in the open and being done through elected representatives and through democratic choices, rather than minority mobs who are taking the law, or in this case, the existence of statues into their own hands. Can I jump in here. I have a really important. Yeah Monica! Got a question for you, so Henry I agree but I I agree with your plant I. Disagree on WHO's doing the hijacking right? One of the one of the things that I feel lucky about is that I am able to live pretty easily on both white twitter and black swing on white twitter for a week and a half. Now all I've heard the name that I've heard is Andrew Jackson and US Gran and some other competitor names right on black twitter? The only name that you hear are racial. Brooks and Brianna Taylor we still waiting for them to arrest the cops who killed. Brianna Taylor were still waiting for justice for racial. Brooks were happy that today. Finally, the grand jury charged them Michael's. Who are the people who lynched? Right, but that's the black twitter conversation on white twitter. It's all about these statutes in the media. It's all about these statues I guess lots of meteoroid straight, and in the past week and a half I've been asked to write an article on gone with the wind which. I've been asked to come on shows like this one is talking about statues and get better because I have some. You know I like to talk about George Thomas Union general was also from Virginia. WHO has a statue? You'd give me a straight up history lesson. I get called on to talk about these things. Not One person has called me and asked me to come on show and talk about race Brooks, right so I. point out just to say like I agree that the message is being hijacked, but it's being hijacked by a media culture that. Statues being down and dragged around and spray painted like that's a good visual talking about. Is it important for? Is it not important at that point for someone to say? Hey, white people shut up. Stop taking this. Frank. Stop taking this moment away because if it is, you're not the first person I've got I've got a tally with one of my very best friends. who every Tom something else gets cancelled. She just marks another check and she says exactly what you say. She said that Amo people. That's your people. That's why people who are making these who are asking cancel patrol and shit like that and she says exactly the same thing you do, but is it not i? Mean I hate to say that? It's incumbent, but I do want to ask. Is it. Would it not be valuable or important for more people to say exactly what you've just said here to US tonight, which which would be when they go on to say stop I don't WanNa talk about that I. Don't want to write about that. Stop trying to take these things down because there's only a certain amount of political capital that was available there and it's being wasted. Is it not I mean? Are People really talking about the systemic changes that are necessary, or are they talking about? Andrew Jackson's statue, and does that not concern you And how do we stop people from doing that? Like I said I. Feel like I'm black sweater and blackout Asians with black voices. There's a whole ongoing continuous conversation about what can be done about police brutality, it says conversation that Cory Booker and Kamala Harris for having a conversation that happens when we talk about Clean Castro's police conversation that a lot of people are trying to have Democratic Party to like get them to to to. Put a little more more teeth into their bills. The Democratic Party voted today to block maybe the most. Centrist proposal that Republicans have ever put on the floor of the US Senate when it comes to police reform because they want this to be a campaign issue in the fall. How are we supposed to take this conversation? Seriously? I mean I listen I. I I don't. It's not my place I'm going to jump in and give my opinion anyway. I happen to agree with that there, but there's also. They're also elite, two black senators on the democratic side and I. I'm not sure what their position was. I didn't follow up on that really myself, but yeah. Basically a little bit of progress is better than no progress at all. Not just a bit of a more roast. Is it not just a bit more racism La for white people to pretend that they know better how to handle this situation right now. Than than black people, white people know better and white people have decided that the best way to do. This is to change the name of these towns to change the names of the get rid of these statues, etc, and it's just it's more. It's more racism to act as if the white people know how to handle this better than black people who are saying no. Let's talk about Reshad Brooks. Let's talk about Brianna Taylor. That's continue to talk about George Floyd. Let's continue to talk about reforming polices police departments. Doesn't someone need to say? Stop being stopped acting like you know better. Okay so two points one. I agree with you. Yes, and I do feel like people are trying to do that, but my second point is that the reason why the difficult dance Klaas that we need the election. Like, we black people are a vocal minority, but we are still fundamentally on minority. We cannot get popular chance. The allies are hurting the cause they. Look I. I spent a I think. Michael Harry from the root, said that describing me that I spend most of my time, excoriating Democrats and a little bit of my time making fun of Republicans like I. Like. Sounds like me. Agree like I I need Democrats to do better than they are I need White Democrats do better than they are right now, but I can't deny the fact that. I've made this point before I've I've been writing publicly rioting writing the public facing way since two thousand eight. There is no article that I've written since two thousand eight about police brutality that I can not essentially cut paste chase name of the black victim changed name of the White Cop and put it up tomorrow, and you think it's the same article, right? You think you think it's a new article like the this has been a long term problem in the African American community. It's a long term thing that we have. We have rallied about, and this moment is the most multi racial multi ethnic moment ever. On this issue. I mean we haven't seen a multi ethnic group Rally for Civil Rights on the scale since the sixties. So you have to find a way. I, think what blackmore trying to do right now. Black leaders are trying to do like Alicia Garza who's actually founder of black lives. Matter right or we're trying to do is find a way to merge the ally ship, which isn't always helpful as you point out clay into something that can still have the kind of positive long lasting change in the last point that I'll make. Is that I? I don't think that you see remember. We just had an election yesterday and progressives in new. York, state did very well and I. Don't think you see that you know. We elected three black people for Congress in your to of openly gay I. Don't think you see this kind of progressive congressional primary victories that we saw without everything's been happening over the past couple of weeks. So I think there is the movement is moving in the right direction, but yeah, you're right, not not all ally ship is the best ally ship right now. Well I would I will I will point out that the district's where more progressive candidates one we're blue districts already, and very well may just be examples of of. More Congressmen and women who are at the extremes of their party in the same way that in the eleventh district. Of North Carolina last night, a person more conservative. Than Ben Trump and mark meadows wanted to win one the primary in a Republican primary north. Carolina I think it's an example of. Of both parties just kind of running to the extremes I wanNA keep talking about all of this I wanted to get to two been very good point about Democrats trying to. Whole to stretch this out to be an election issue because I. Don't know that disagree with that either, but we do have to get onto our quickfire round. We take questions from our audience for our guests each week and we'll ask you to send those questions into us on twitter and instagram at politico on twitter and instagram at politico on, or you can email them. Them to us. PODCAST AT POLITICO DOT COM We have questions from the audience. We call it quickfire round. We'll see how quickfire these can be may never end up being that quick, but we'll give one to each Each guest Alexis from Miami will start with Ben Alexis from Miami asks who is doing more damage to trump Sarah Cooper or the Lincoln project. I honestly am not sure that either of them are doing any significant damage. To trump I do think that trump is owned man and the massive source of of damage that he does is is self earned into himself. so Alexis. I will tell you that I. Guess if I had to do marginally I would say that the Lincoln Project. Is. Utterly irrelevant, it is entirely about UH, taking money from donors and spit, and putting it into the pockets of political consultants and had buyers those things crop up occasionally, but they've been doing a lot of that in recent years. So that's what all politics. Henry Henry Stephen from Charleston not sure if that's West Virginia or South Carolina, but Stephen From Charleston asks. Why has president trump given up on covid? Why has he given up on what? covid nineteen. You know I think. The president has was always. Lukewarm about the shutdown He wants to get back to what he believes is a good selling point. Which is the? Once robust economy and I think he also knows that he loved it. He had daily press conferences in April that were canceled when he suggested he says jokingly ingesting bleach to fight the disease. Ice Look at elections all around the world and virtually every incumbent left right and center as seen an increase in their approval ratings in their party standings, because all of country once in a time of crisis is called in stable leadership. Trump is about the only one who seen his standing down and I think he knows that. Elliott Brinda from Los Angeles Why based on this question I'm going to guess she lives a little bit outside of Los Angeles but it says. Why do protesters and rally-goers get to spread Kovic while when I still can't go back to work only God? They're not getting sprayed coded the protests have generally been. Very mast up. I have been one of those voices saying that all protesters should wear masks. So, so, it's not, it's not a situation where the protesters are getting spread Cova. We want everybody. To be as safe as possible while they're outside, and that includes wearing a mask washing your hands, and doing all the all the things, a possible that keeps stuff safe now. One difference is an outtake Brenda's. I'll take Brenda's premise. At least this bar one of the things that you can't do very well at a protest is socially distanced and this is a real concern with the protesters, even though the majority of them wearing masks, the inability to social distance during a protest, is a problem one way to correct for that problem or ameliorate. That problem would be to stop. The police tactic that's called Kennelling this involves them kind of shutting. The protesters together along corridors where it's easier to control them I think the most famous case actually happened here in New York about. Or a bunch of protests about five thousand protesters were trapped on the Manhattan grades for an hour and a half. To Kettle them between Brooklyn and Manhattan. Except that the police could not do that and let the protesters fan out a little bit or that would also increase safety and decrease the spread of the virus but it's not a brandon. It's not a situation where where people are turning a blind eye. To the potential spread of the virus protests something that people who care about the protesters lives. Are Very very concerned about me. Personally, it's one of the reasons why have not been at a protest. I live with my mother who seventies high risk person and I have not felt like. I can risk to protests that I support in theory. given the realities of the virus. Okay Ben Jason From Boston Asks Can Biden Win Without a black woman assuming as VP. I actually think he could I think that in the context of the moment I. think he won't bother to try. And that's the shortest answer I can give you. Okay okay. Henry care from Nashville asks is John Bolton correct? Did the dims blow the impeachment? Absolutely they blew the impeachment. If their goal was to remove Donald Trump from office that the only way you can remove somebody from office to have the consent of the other party, but from the moment that the Ukraine Gate for lack of a better phrase came out, it was clear that democratic can be manager's house. We're going to have a rush to judgment to get this out the doors quickly as possible and to make no serious attempt to persuade Republicans that their leader was crooked or criminal enough to remove from office so absolutely. It was botched if the. Was To actually Donald Trump in office. Okay and Ellie will give you this one last because I'm biased. I know your answer already and I just want to give you a chance to say tim from New Haven says. Asks Biden up fifteen points nationally condemns breathe easy. No. Do, not preview. Don't elaborate. Near Times Hillary Clinton winning. Ninety percent clip like at eight o'clock on election. No, you cannot bring easily. Are you kidding me. I figured I figured you'd be animated that you did not let me down. None of you dead. Henry Allston Ben Dominant LMS misspell thank you so much for being here This was one of my favorite conversations and I appreciate all of you. I'm GonNa feel like I'm going to need to take a break now. Go GRANDMA DICTIONARY WE'RE GONNA have to call this episode five dollar words or something like that ameliorate sinecure rejoinder I'm going to be busy looking up some words from three people who are far smarter than I am Thank you guys so much for being here I'm Elliot. Where can we see? You can hear you. Where can we read? You can read all my stuff at the nation dot. com also asked Ellie. NYC E. L. E. NYC because my better handle at I would never have children. And you. Didn't there'd ever any other NYC apparently either? Henry. You've got two books that we can find the working class Republican. Ronald Reagan and the return of the Blue Cross, blue collar, conservatism, and the four faces of the Republican Party the fight for the two thousand sixteen presidential nomination. Where can we where we read more of your stuff? Obviously at Washington Post and where else well I'm exclusive for the Washington Post, so you need to be a subscriber but I write every day. Monday through Friday in the online edition and I am on twitter at Henry Olsen at O. L.. S. E. M. at Henry Olsen E.. P. P. C.? E. P. P. C.. Henry Olsen EPC. That's right. Okay, we'll make sure that's I'm tagged on. INSTAGRAM and twitter also and been the federalist we can you don't write that much of the list, but you oversee it all, and we can see you on a whole bunch of different TV networks. Where else can we find you You can find me on twitter at dominant be dom, e., N., T. H. I. Right at the federalist. I've mostly run the federalist I also have a daily newsletter. The transom which you can subscribe to the TRANSOM DOT COM, and yes, I. I'm on Fox and some other networks fairly frequently, but most of all. With thank you for the not when you tonight for what has been very smart conversation. I well thank you for joining us. Hold on I. Just WanNa make sure. Is that the transfer dot, com or the transfer dot org? Okay. I haven't I I know it is I. I sang been sweating, so we're friends, so haven't. It's the transfer dot org, so I had a little inside Info I didn't know I could find it at dot. com also okay, so the transfer dot org or the transfer dot com. and. We'll make sure you're all or tagged on the instagram and twitter accounts for politico, on which hopefully you, if you're listening right now, already know about police like and subscribe and rate and review all that fancy stuff you do on on for podcasts and whatnot I. Only listen to this one so I don't know. You could find us here next week and we will hopefully answer the question. How the heck are we going to get along? Thanks like us. Never has the world of golf and more fascinating or more in flux. Thanks to a suddenly newfound appreciation for a sport that millions love, and even more millions of miss watching my new podcast. The shack show hosted by me. Geoff Shackelford will be that safe space to discuss matters both vitally important and totally escapist so as the pro golf tours. He's back into business and recreational golfers rekindle their passion for getting outdoors and getting easily aggravated, and maybe, minus if you bunker aches, car-sharing or those awkward chest bumps, the shack show will be in your cue ready to offer the sports last independent voices sticking up for what really matters each week. I'll interview a wide array of gaul smartest. Most compelling minds as we attempt to gauge the state of the game, and sometimes I'll just chime in with a quick take on those inevitable first world golf dramas, so listen and follow the shack show on the iheartradio, APP apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you're not cheating. Not Try hard enough, said former cubs, first Baseman Mark Grace, this is. A new weekly podcast that deep dive into some of the craziest attempts at Deception and Sports I'm your host about Waxman and each week I'll interview key players in some of the most brazen and bizarre attempts to level the playing field all in the name of winning. White powder might bear and they were asked. Like. One t shirts or something like that third glasses and I came to signals to make coaches from the left field bleachers. That's former mets manager. Bobby Valentine, telling me about the other time. He wore a disguise, so we could manage after being injected frauds cheats scam artists thirty year, olds who forged birth certificates to play high school basketball. We'll talk to the mall. Is we attempt to uncover the crazy and dirty tricks of the trade? Listen and follow trigger ration- on the iheartradio, APP apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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2:38:02 hr | 1 year ago

Ruiz vs Joshua 2 In JeopardyRuiz Wants Significantly More ForSaudi Arabia

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Ruis versus is joshua to in jeopardy according to the athletic and michael carpenter. Andy ruiz has not signed his contract and is threatening not to sign unless his offer is significantly increased to go to saudi arabia. Michael carpenter gave some very key points as to how he will be able to get out out of this litigation so stick around because we will be having my good cop and you're on the show a little bit later to just discuss all this and <hes> yeah. We're going to bounce this back and forth off. Listen man <hes> when we reported any four million obviously thought that andy would begin a piece of that. I didn't think a piece only nine million nine million is what is being reported. That envy signed four in the first contract so like that's his paycheck this contract but he's like no way. I'm not going to saudi saudi arabia for nine mil so this is what we're going to be talking about. This is what we are going to discuss. If you want to voice your opinion right here on the voice of the people hotline don't forget to add nestor gibbs on skype skype and be part of the conversation you can do that by downloading that app on the end on the android app market over the iphone market absolutely free while you're there download the patriot on and join us on patriots for dozens of other free podcasts on a weekly basis action <music> spots dot com in spanish collect dot com. You'll yo yo yo yo what's up everybody out there in the universe back with another one andy ruiz's please i mean what can i say man like i know you might not wanna go to saudi arabia. I know you probably ali. Thank you deserve more than nine million and the rematch. I know you probably are irritated with everything that's going on but bench sign a contract then she signed a rematch clause that if you want then you get a rematch they already said the and what's as an good enough then so why isn't gonna now because you see the money that's born here. So did you not read the back end of your contract. Did you not know that you win beginning part of the sightsee if it was going to be in a rematch lot of questions that i have a lot of questions that i have but what's going on as i was going cool man since you take an o. D. andy knows stance. I'm taking the d. in eddie. No stairs what fuck did eddie make posters release press conference of press releases press conference information had he had zone tweet in it but let me tell you where it gets even better. Okay this people in an chat talking about fake news right. It's so fake. The p._b._c. deleted their twee and instagram where showed their official fox on posted is so fake that if you put has tag matter of fact i'm gonna do right now. If you do hashtag josh will mike. They suspended the eh p._b._c. Got that fucking power yo listen at first yes. I thought it was only if you do joshua ruis joshua to the number two. That's gone suspended. I'm gonna but i gotta pull it up. I want you to read what this says. I mean it's unbelievable but you up conspiracies. Though i love theory suspended right became use the hashtag more not since not any recent you cannot l. k. I'm from the standpoint. You know saying look got under contract. You gotta make sure that there that they when you sign something you know it through and through. I mean it's not yup. I thought it was going to have like people off the conversation. I'm sorry but i thought like if you're anti you're doing what's best for your fighter. You're you're. You're secure a big sightsee a lot of thing i thought n._b._c. I want it to be in england. I don't wanna go fight. They don't want to come to the u._s. So they wanna neutral ground does not neutral if this does anybody have any ties to to saudi arabia i don't know about maybe they do but look at the end of the day man. I just sometimes shit might go your way but if you say you're going to do some <hes> you gotta do right so ruis joshua to nothing happens right. I'm gonna just i'm going to have to share share it and look it says right there no results right no results. Now i go back to i take the two off. Put ruiz joshua you see three hundred and eighty eight right joshua two or joshua roy so now you put joshua ruis lease that space it there. Check this out hashtag right because what's going on. I boom click it. This is so wag that it doesn't do it the same way as on the phone like if you do joshua ruis on your phone and you click it is going to give you the message i'm telling you so. What do you mean they'd. He like took it out like i do you okay so look. I am going to have to put it like this because i don't wanna gonna look like alive about that. So when you clinton joshua ruis look at what you get can you read it recent polls from joshua we are currently hidden because the community had reported to them and be meet instagram community skylines so obviously like yo that fight is fake. They're using our brand. Shut that down so they shut down joshua louise which already existed but anything new is shutdown so joshua old exists now you go. I'm gonna put the number two here because again. I don't know why it's is not doing on a computer on a computer you know search results but then you pull it joshua louise number two which was yesterday pop and if you go to match room they still using that right but that's even better that let me show you what happens when you go to match room. That's great. I'm telling you the power of these people are more natural. Hopefully only a dozen on the stupid deaths soccer's on on the phone so tell him right so he goes there. Post the right look ruis giant. Stop acting like the same nothing hi how you scrub the entire internet of all those graphics that got re posted how you scrub the internet head of everything josh ruiz back in like this is insane insane bre no. We didn't sign for that fight. No we not going to saudi arabia. You gotta you gotta put some more money in the pot. How mu- how much money you deserve. I didn't even about aww deserve. I'm gonna cop. Injures twit tweets now about the twit a pain but i wanna brought up the company brought up i._b._m. And cooper pillow now if they he somehow had this drawn out the man wayne got to be part of this shit our title my eighth title does therefore the contract because all three are no longer on the line. I'm sorry when you have paused for my the only one loses his josh as well listen. If joshua can't come to an agreement the sanctioning bodies listen to me. The sanction bodies can't strip ruis. He got got a contract yeah. Let's ex-cop when he got a contract with match room woody. We're going to dan i the day w._b._a._l. What they do they do. They can't strip release. I'm not saying i'm saying to be of kaz. He put up the twenty albin kubeck parallel so this thing here so what's going to happen is they got to come to an agreement or they have to file a lawsuit before andy andy ruiz guidance schedule his next fight. They have to block him from fighting year. That's a lennox lewis to rodman mocking a day now. Check us out uh-huh but but yeah you know while lennox lewis one because he wasn't trying to how to fight in saudi arabia number to a level to let me just show the world. Would this says travel advisory from june twenty fifth. This ain't january this june. There's a couple of days ago. America telling it's american citizens fall of fuck back. Stay the stay away. Stay away. What an attorney for terrorist right this. Although i said this the first day i didn't say like this of course i fucking number two but i've seen any concerns about going over there on the sand safety and not not only say how the the <hes> the human rights are notice and so that's always a case for me. Eddie eddie's disrespectful accent andy. I like how how you not gonna ask andy. If you say they can say us. We put on a successful show last year. In jeddah saudi arabia with the world boxing super series finale would catalysts myth enjoys groves also we we recently did it again but a month and a half ago would amir khan and unbelievable so the concerns that you guys have maybe shouldn't be that a high because we already put onto successful shows without incident that may abuse something that they might try to fall back on but at the end of the day man. It just seems like i know this listen. This fight is getting more and more lucrative every time that i even look because you factor in a forty forty plus million dollars sightsee you didn't you factor in. We may not happen find on his own. I know they're tweets came out that set the tone finalizing agreement but that was the best. I plan on e._s._p._n. Fucking fox if they come with the right proposal n._y._u. And pay per view in america we all know that fatty the ferry move people as right ain't no fool anything she at this can be my and i'm gonna get all the money all the money and that's exactly what he's doing well. I'm just excited that again. Ah prophesized this and it's coming true. I knew that they would be pay per view you officers and then it was just so shocking that we didn't hear anybody show interest in now to day. It comes out that there's two different networks that have have submitted offers and i knew it. I'm like how is no one willing to take the risk on paper. Really comes true happened right bravo the bitter for this shit imagine bravo pay per view ew that it'd be crazy that that was crazy i didn't i didn't think the zone we'll let get this for you know so i thought you were figuring at because dissolve fucked up and you can't give a guy that that much money and not have his damaged fighter even dealing whites not even with the zone officially so you've got the two top fighters matchroom not would zone. Would you guys doing man. I think is beyond zone. I think it's eddie not being sure like how do you. How do you announce a fight without a signature and now this can happen. You know 'cause i'm not gonna. I haven't heard throughout the industry that fights happen and the day of they get signed. You know oh man we got. We got michael coppins. You're on let me just go ahead and get them on here michael carpenter of the athletic wanna wanna thank you obviously for taking out the time to talk a little bit of boxing with us and if you could just obviously it's your story that everyone is running around here. Talking talking about the joshua joshua to falling apart is money going to do it like because i've seen one of your tweets says that's andy wouldn't go unless the offer significantly more. Is it really going to take money because then i've seen another tweet where you're like you know the increase caution level to do exercise increase costs and go to saudi arabia select is even gonna wanna bring his family over there with him. This is just a lot of leverage and posturing my opinion. I mean when when andrew re signed the contract back in the spring. Please terrell miller contain. The rematch clause was pretty much said hey look injuries. Beach joshua joshua has the right to triggered a rematch clause and events eddie hearn and anthony josh full control the date the site and andrew. He's earned something around nine million dollars which fixed purse not a not a percentage split andrew. We sign that so. He's contractually obligated to to fight anthony joshua. Now what i was seeing is from what i've been told i could see andrew. He's trying to use security risks as you know some leverage leverage play and he's going to try and get some more money can't blame the. I'm trying to get more money but i don't expect to fall apart. I just see it as andy rees wants more more money and he's gonna use everything he can to get under hayman how much more you think he wants from the leads nine. I don't know the answer to that but you gotta gotta figure look if if he were to say hey look i'm not going through with this rematch at all he had then he's going to get sued. He's going to sue him. We've seen this hi. It's jamie progressive's number one number two employee leave a message at the hey jamie. It's me jamie this. Is your daily pep talk. I know it's been rough going ever since people found out about your acapella group mad harmony any but you will bounce back. I mean you're the guy always helping people find coverage options with the name your price tool. It should be you giving me the pep talk now. Get out there hit that high note and and take mad harmony all the way to nationals this year sorry it's pitchy progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law of course the lexus golden in an opportunity sales event is about exceptional offers but it's also about having advanced technology and a safety system designed to alert you all all coming together for you at the perfect moment. Don't miss your perfect moment to experience exceptional offers on a line of vehicles equipped with advanced safety technology now until timber third experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Slim advanced safety features not available on jack's happen before back around the early two thousands after rock shocks lennox lewis rock don king threats by somebody else they add match caused lennox lewis sued he won in court and they got got an injunction. Stop out and run from anybody. Other than lennox lewis next so that's where we would be headed here. I don't expect it to get to that point. I just think andrew you'll we'll say hey gimme a few million more and we have a deal and yes. He still has to sign something. Even though the rematch causes there you saw spine the the dow agreement for the next site. Let's just say that this does fall apart in goes to litigation. How likely would with the i._b. Of beat to step in and pulled away their title for the cuban pull out in your opinion i._b._s. C._b._s. could strip worries next week because they don't auto rematch clauses and there's battled out i reported on last week. Basically kubrick pool evan top rankers saying the the mandatory is now do the pool of tool imitators wanna get there were years ago another one last year against tyson causing they're pushing fort adam cope maskey who cares chris ariola over the weekend. Send it to the number three spot and for some reason i this is number two ranked so if so right now there's a battle going on between top rank and epic sports which has poops co promoter and then tom brown on behalf of andy rees trying to get an exception to do the rematch match. I think we'll have a decision in the next couple of days and if they do stripping with i think is very likely we'll see a fight between adam oscar order that they can title. I was wondering why adam got that title and you know he had like an i._b._m. Interim in his last i would areola and i'm like way wasn't he. Highly ranked in the w._b._z. and he's changing directions but he's well let me just actually we had kief chief ida yesterday and we asked him would he go to this guy and he said he's not sure he says you know financially. It's not an issue but he is worried about. How the like like you tweeted out the increase caution that you have to have when you're going to saudi arabia so i'm asking you would you cover this by being the no the magnitude of it it or would you rather stay home in the safety of america. I would like to cover it because like you said it's the biggest fight of the year and i want to be there. What did you my job but it's going to be up to let it competitors there if they want to send you or not let me play devil's advocate real quick. The same level to caution that is over in saudi arabia i seen you without is in mexico in any hearn is putting on a show in mexico. I believe on the twenty four so what's the difference if they try to come with that argument you're right. That's what eddie and he's going to come out with something like that so <hes> so you know. I think it'd be an interesting legal battle. I just think that what this all boils down to is andrew is using the cortina's. Try to get more money and eddie earned has a fight signed right now. He's going to try to push through with the fight. I think the fable happen but they're going to have to probably placate him. Why what did autozone let this get this far like speaking of light. They're like just now and talk so finalizing a._t. Broadcast deal for the u._s. Like how did it get dislike. Why wasn't this already pre determined and the first night. I believe the reason for that his win and he did the deal with zone last year. Anthony joshua is not included as part of that deal and the zones wait and see where i was going to take place if they would get a much larger licensee in the u._s. It will get electoral license in the u._k. And now in a far flung place like saudi arabia it will get substantially lower license the and what i was told that somewhere figures less so i think that's all be settled right now and you know disown region have in this whole thing unfortunately for them but but you know this is eddie and joshua driving the bus you says saudi arabia's paying them eight figures less <hes>. I'm going to pay eddie hearn eight not eight figures less than they would have. It was in the u._s. or the u._k. For the rights to televise the fight muse now one of your tweets many other hold the other holdup. Sorry i was gonna say the other hold up is that the zone is trying i to land the rights to the fight in all eight of other markets to now. One of your other tweets mentioned the possibility of two other broadcasters that put but in office could. We assume that that's e._s._p._n. Showtime or fox i actually i don't. I don't have the answer of that right now. You can speculate what you want but it it would make sense that those are the two yeah or showtime who knows no eddie randy reason al hinman fighter heyman does business with both showtime talks but i don't know the answer but no e._s._p._n. Though like bob didn't wanna you know. He didn't bid on this city. I go no the answer i i don. I haven't really answer that in your opinion. How likely is eddie hearn to budge and give of a andrew raise more money when east contractually obligated to the site to the rematch to the whole bank so i don't. I don't understand why he would but i can see just what you say make it happen but if he doesn't he's gonna win in court so is he's like what do you do. Well like any businessmen eddie her. We have to figure out the opportunity cost here. It's a fight doesn't go through december seven then saudi how much that cost him. How much is it worth to make sure that it goes through him pressure on him. Could i see him going. A couple of million william more sure. You're getting a ton more now. So now gareth davis yesterday early morning or i guess surfer the u._k. Early morning he posted an article stating that who somewhere around eighty four point six million dollars was decisively but then you posted it was is a little more than forty or upwards of forty. Where are we with that figure. This is the thing where i don't have the exact figure but i was told that it's somewhere around forty. It could be it could be an excellent forty could be fifty you know but i oh i think it's probably. I don't think it's a hundred. I don't think it's seventy five. I think it's in the vicinity of forty whether that's forty or fifty or sixty and for context it was reported by meltzer who was a wrestling reporter dot w._w._e. Is getting around forty five million for their events and they're big events. They're doing but i have top draws and the current contract is andy guarantee any of the u._k. Pay per view buys. No this is a flat flat in the vicinity of nine million dollars guarantee now us vision of services so in a fight like that. I'm sorry i was going to say quickly that provision of services which is a little different and not when there's a co promotion which which were not a co promotion. This is a mattress event right and in this case. Tom brown promotes and the reason naming him as the manager. There's applying andrew on a provision services which means that it would be negotiated. A package is nine million dollars or around million for andrew. You have to pay promoter fee or managerial out of that shirley his purse. It's the package where the provision of services so common to do a little speculating for worst case scenario andy. He sticks to his guns. He doesn't go through the rematch day sue them is it worth it's al hayman and just pay off the settlement and keep the titles those in do their own thing or would it be too much like with the loss loss before obviously way more. It'll oh be something other than that would they would they would do is if you look back about lennox lewis hocine rock monkeys and i posted a link to the case earlier today on twitter they would they would seeking junction junction which would mean that of course could mandate injuries not to fight anywhere unless it's as me joshua next <hes> wow interesting. When do you think will get an outcome to all of this. <hes> you know i i would assume and when i say i'll come already been officially announced but like you know as terms of seeing andrew announce it or weigh in publicly and everything suit failing. You'd have to figure in the next seven to ten days. Well i mean you say it's officially been announced but p._b._c. retracted their instagram and twitter <hes> you know fight posters that they created and the the hashtag which was active is suspended both joshua louise and josh ruiz too so something is definitely own hall yeah where there's smoke. There's fire for sure. This is a part of the players like. I said to make sure that they have the protecting their fighter. They're doing their job and i would expect to see a global press torpor fight of this magnitude hanging. The usual stops in new york l._a. England maybe even mexico so i think once we over underway. We'll know everything to go but i guess yes seven days. They need clarity soon last question. Since you brought up press store they did put an official press. Release would only one stop in london. I was told that both josh were end. Burris will not be there though it's going to be eddie hearn and one of the reps from saudi so i would assume there will be a press tour beyond that with the fighters. Maybe there won't be but that will be surprising to make. I'm not said that was my last but we've watched. Big fights not do big time promotion in the past because it's a rematch so it'll sell itself as with these promoters and broadcasters think do we see that with this one and we just might not get a press store because it's so big you're right and now we did see that with canola triple g to that's not eddie hearn's style knowing the way editors business that show i will be quite surprised if he's pull out all the stops to make this bigger fight possible. Well mike thank you. I was coming on. If you have any social media you want to give to our listeners. Please do so thank you again man <hes> we can't thank you enough because we use everyone you tweets and your headlines headlines. Lands pug my breaking news on a daily so we appreciate the hard work you do keep giving dan hail cruciate report. I appreciate this guys. Follow me on twitter at my cop and read me over at yet again. No problem thank you there. You have it ladies and gentlemen and michael carpenter the one let us know all these details so mike now. It's time to speculate we got the facts out the way or at least whatever information that we could give directly from demand demand broke the story now. It's time to speculate here on the situation man because you know he went anyway. He said he was like look. You know they sued rochman. The add an injunction zhongshan but again we got the level truth thing you know to factor in and i mean if i'm if i'm andy i'm taking a stand. Dan put me on the stand your on put me on the stand now. Let me say for the biggest fight of my career. I want my daughter's there. I want my wife. There is not a court well. Let's make it that kind of cool. That's got to be one of the snags in the contract like some people like the <hes> kief bring his wife for the biggest fight of his career so like andy suppose to leave is because of the probable danger you know because he doesn't want on a mentally stress about what could happen. I don't know andy save my no. He <hes> he has taken stands and i i can respect because i probably would want money too but when you adding earned you gotta look at it you have more on the contract. I look i don't wanna go out of the gatien and in all this traveling on this area so now million brother we only fifteen i fifteen now dying going out and fifteen s. nine. What you're making right now what you made the the last night fifteen million that that life changing enough for you we we are got you on a contract so you know going to court. You're going to lose money. You go it just highly house gonna play. We've seen it with lennox lewis. We've seen awake ride. My the contracts are meant to be oppo unless there's something in it does not make sense or or or has out. This contract doesn't seem mccaslin out for andy descend. If i was eddie i would give them extra money but i'm not about to give him shit thirty million dollars no crazy number like that. I mean you say he. He ain't got out. I think he has a lot of leverage boss stolen right. Whoever <unk> is in saudi they got deadlines. You know they need to have shit up and running. They need to be able to start selling tickets without having sure that's that's what everybody tells me about like even said those guys over there they move with a._p.'s and they're gonna hang on every bit. When i get a bill okay my other angle is still the belts the longer it takes the more the w._b._o. Decides to do what they they want the i._b._m. Decides to do they want you know and this fight becomes less and less meaningful. You know he could be obligated to rematch age a._j. Ain't got nothing to do with the strip away from him. How important is the fight when three of those belts are gone because let's be real distribute the i._b._f. You ain't walking in there with the i b o. Oh you got the other three. You'll need that one if you ain't got the other three. That's what i'm thinking too like. If one of those bills are strip or something like a an argument experienced driver looking for a career that pays well and offers vacation days from the start if so then drive for penske talk to penske representative representative today and apply now call eight five five c. d. l. penske start driving with penske today. Of course the lexus golden opportunities sales event is about exceptional exceptional offers but it's also about having advanced technology and a safety system designed to alert you all coming together for you at at the perfect moment. Don't miss your perfect moment to experience exceptional offers on a line of vehicles equipped with advanced safety technology now until september third experience insomnia at your lexus dealer. Some things safety features not available on jack's. Thank comes down from a sanctioning body does that now void the country because everything not how was last cycle light so like we can still fight but not going to be fighting for what the contract stipulates right. I mean i'm just thinking out loud and listen. Rodman went to core four people like these u._k. Fans are acting like oh. You know they got a win because he loss. He still went to court. Might they drug it out. You know what i mean. The fight didn't happen when the pomona wanted so again. If they go to court they lose their venue. They lose this potential safety. Everything happens even if in court. He's forced to fight like rodman. It's still now. Gotta get renegotiated. A whole new location is just gets dragged. Out and money will be loss. I i wanna know who fucking took the handle your way this will need. Does this the biggest mystery or today right here who who had enough cows another the bridge to make that happen power who had enough power to make an entire hashtag disappear influence that is insane. I mean look i was do. I do all the stuff in front of my girls so i'm preparing for the show and i'm like what the fuck she's like. Well look at this shit. It's gone like that's the power our house. An entire first i avoid joshua ruiz used exists. There is fight shit. That's just say no recent stuff could be used with that. That's over and that's garbage because we know without auto news the past couple of days joshua reason but but they also took that andrew is joshua two. Which was the official hashtag. I mean it's it's so powerful that you go to match rooms like i said in direct you to nowhere but anyway. Let's open these phone lines. You know the number to call in to what the how about say six hundred eighty watcher so if not already subscribed to the channel go ahead and do so now if you're listening right now go ahead and smash thumbs up but it helped with the visibility of the show look if you want to go one step farther and really support the boxing voice it over to patriot dot com slash boxer shorts and sign up for as little as three bucks a month like three dollars five thirty six dollars a year man that's like not even a pair of shoes or a pair of jeans. No it's nothing supporters and we will support you by bringing out more and more shows and i'll pay drama and you get a lot of perks whatever yes decides to get his ass post office. Yagi shirts yemen. I mean today's already three shows shows in in one day and will definitely be back for more <hes> but let's go out to the sponsors and get to our call us. <hes> we want to get your thoughts on most remember to raise five stars on itunes. These calls are brought to you by el camino electrical services experts in electric vehicle geico charging stations for consultations and turnkey installation visit us at el camino electrical services dot com. We got a couple of civil jets. Let's one coming from no name no methods to showing some love i guess is he deleted his ship but we got one from erin. Stinson drop the bills and the untied eddie hearn's and we got one from andre the new right there right because remember fury did and he didn't fall from grace. He got stripped to the i._b._f. And after he got straight so you know what fuck that i'm already to chin. I'm lineal champ. I'd be demand. It'd be demand and really you know that makes andy some type of lino right not truly new 'cause that's still a fury. He still is demand like a._j. Was still demanding the division. Let's not you know you can laugh at off. Yes he wasn't the man that was vladimir when tyson beat them but he is the man in the division even right now he moved. No one moves the needle like him besides wilder. No one and i think honestly speaking. He might move more than while. They're like wild gets the job done with those viral knockouts and shit like that but like a._j. Talks and does a million views bro and we see the forty million dollars for your plus. I mean so so i mean there's no no stress to say that we got one from andre the new nine million mine is legal fees has has tagged air tight deal. We'll see man. We'll see listen. You were out now. I gotta understand i'm with al man i'm with with al al got in his game because dues try to play his brother. How so no one getting played remember at listen. If anything yoke oh guaranteed to be good remembered. This is a al hayman investment. Al hamer set hunt. Take this eight hundred k. bang freebie this freebie go pay that top rank contract br he seen the vision. We ain't good enough. We now worthy to talk his name. I'll tell you how much power l. ham. I am against. He got. He got bored. Warfighters smell than what as because name i just wanted thing would achieve and when we talk about hey i just wanted to have because you know he he do the best fighters but hey i'm the i'm is a great guy i had never met him but the mall intents and purposes everybody everybody speaks highly all inside of show show them the utmost respect even when fighters leave them. They still have shown. I don't want to tell bad about our first thing people. Oh say whenever you wanna talk about but i just wanted to active as i would like to be but you know active active and came back to p._c. And start getting wait to get his name jump brass knockout a._j. Thought that who would have thought that we had called the three way when he did the little conference because say oh you know i got eight hundred but i don't feel like open in the bank for like going to the same who who who wanna put in on this is eight hundred on this little investment. I got you know like damn breast right now bobby. You had andy are we we even though he you had she'll fuck out of here. Let me go to these calls man we have we got bouma ranga j._d. In texas rex is talk to me. I know my in. I don't know what a nice all good. Is it me it seems like when it comes to like kamilo canal on jacob easy fight than me. Why is it everytime either eddie hearn turn or josh will or the protecting i don't. I don't know what's going on with this thing like it's always some bullshit revolve in you know around making a big fight with us and and it's got to get you in the date is releasing lisa. He don't wanna he wants more money. I don't know put the blame on any earn you. They just doing of josh. They you gotta do is very true. Man got all the belt exactly like my family okay. This is what i'm saying though bit <hes> it sounds like <hes> andy didn't agree to go over there right got a degree. He agree and the first contract when he signed you. You hurt my copy. He this when i'm saying it's always on revolving yeah man. I don't know everytime everytime <hes> you. You know. We we make if it used to. I gotta stop point my finger at at the at the at the problem at the root of the problem nine everybody you they listen j._d. Just just to piggyback off you you know mike is trying to play devil's advocate and that's cute but a._j. Eddie all the problem. We'll tell you why delia white said this he foreseen. That's why he said no. I don't want you off. I don't want to fifty fifty. Why are you controlling the rematch so you're telling me i'm i'm beat the brother and then i gotta beat the brother again how he wants me to beat them. No no and that's why dylan white paul dow you you know what i'm saying but what was nello which was canal can do the same things did they do that. There's been a lot of cases as you come out we won't they made they made it easy. Can mellow get every fight and fight right. Oh man oh mama leo. I'm accused money on my pocket. Now i got you hold on. Let him leave. Would you say he wanted the family. Oh this nah. Maserati is mine. He's mine. I heard recall talking pig. James tried to on spots on boise canal ally so real quick as easy to the bunk right so gennady gluskin is his release remember his rematch clause. He asked for more so then golden boy did what the same thing eddie gonna have to do. Fuck you'll his this forty seven point five but remember mike you doing all this you know talking to your neck making your finger snap but you remember that he got pay per view up saw he got concessions. It's easier for them to make the he was smart enough not to fuck up and the reman smart. Don't use that word in this in this phrase you know why because this this was late minute replacement you went in there. This is exactly what you do you say yay then you get the big dogs out at noon that the labor and replacement and you believe in yourself and you knew you was gonna win so you knew what you side in the fucking rematch but that's what i'm telling you might you did your job now. Lawyers turn it yo. Your job was to win. We're gonna take care of arrests. They want to go to court. We got money. Then we go to court. Were out. Yes yes then we can suv. What fifty million wasn't a delaware wanted fifty mill we went to call for that right fucking shutdown right and they want for no fight though it it was more for state boards and this ain't a fighting. There's going to be a fight in the court ruled say no fighting the album of fucking greg's of all time alley is my opinion allen. Gotta do much because eddie can afford the weight. You let these things in a fortnight that unhappy no forget not let happen because it's going to happen. He he got the rematch close what you ain't got no dibs on his those belts the minute you start losing belts despite despite the same so you got him he's on. This time is ticking. He got us solidified his deal before though sanctioning bodies stick their clothes in his deal and say oh this this this is going back and forth. You know we ain't got time to wait. Wait we got bob's big bucks so we know once anxious about it that they're going to without wills a bill. That would be definitely gonna do. They gonna be like you know how would wait for the rematch wing champs. If you're watching this on youtube. Don't forget to hit that thumbs up with the visibility show going out to a mastermind in texas big supermax talk to me <hes> neck real quick. You brought up the good luck and rematch clause deal but don't forget that fight was a draw that that worry matt cloth went out the window. They had to read about the point good point but he got more money. He wanted more money yeah but what i gotta say <hes> although i understand completely what he's doing what he's doing mike kind of right you took that last minute but when you signed i mean who takes the fight not thinking they're going to win so we're gonna win dan. You can't agree now. I'm not saying he should've tried to get paid more especially if auto table book that brainy off but i couldn't understand why this is going to be good things is gonna get ugly ugly in a hurry and i'm starting to feel like we may not his this rematch by the this year unless they just don't put the energy out like that. Hey remember that other caller said that he was like yours. Feigen we're going to think is going to happen. There's going to be a frie- accessible won't happen is fighting nine i. I think it's either ed wood in alabama. Will someone else somebody right yeah yeah yeah i remember but they you know they they right so <hes> 'cause look man nine million good but that's not what anything home after he had the taxes paid hated team especially. What's on the table right there anyone that to you when i seen oughta money that i'm gonna tell you what i'm doing. I get that one hundred million dollars a day when you take it home ninety one. Let me tell you i was upset yesterday today. We're not seeing he was only getting nine. I'm like what in the world or isn't dimmer huntingdale on table that we know of and that's it and like you said that's what we know noel as crazy yes crazy. It is crazy but that's why that's why i'm outside down. It was like nah man. Nah the lanes to be real. Which of course not you know him. Let's say let's shake these trees one out to let me see make sure no masterminds awesome boomerangs out here man we do is we do got when we got one. We got one mr t. Save save thousands of get old navy saturday and sunday just in time for back to school. Girls and boys polos are three bucks in stores only plus saturday. Only genes are ten bucks for adults seven bucks for kids at old navy and old navy dot com. Tom fell at eight ten to eighty limited. Five polish exiles only the starlight lounge presents an evening with the progressive box tickling the ivories. He just saved by bundling home and auto with progressive. Gonna finally barring that gal of yours ugo send condolences this this next in my thank you progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates discounts not available in all states or situations p._b._c. man. That's keeping real behind playing games once again with money. Train people like peasants. You know he's doing that mr candy from that django should should but <hes> i wanna see the fighting now but i i feel like when it comes to eddie. He always fucks it up. When it comes to big big fights beyond walnut is prime example. You know he's not memphis the american public he's not good at doing this type of thing. He wants to at wembley type. She can sell tickets on his snapchat or some shit. I don't know i want what this fight because i want to see if he really can do. I wanna see anthony joshua go the path he wants to go. He wants to lose his head. Should i wanna see it phone. Call already. B._b._c.'s got a business donald in richmond california. Talk talk to rich who was going going on. Hey this is you know this is some real because i'll be thinking about it and he actually getting nearing hearing win and get to build this like i got the bills now fuck all that she we renegotiate and guess what i need more money and if i don't get more money you you never know i might pull a hamstring. I'm might hurt her all her my own on my back. I mean who's to say what will happen. If this by you can start talking like that and say you never know he might get an injury. You know who's to say. Maybe i sit down and talk that al hey me and he has this whole thing out and we say fuck the whole thing and he just willing to go to court and cash shop the whole seat. He probably can't really think that he's going to get that much. I would think in my mind. The most he might say he would want is twenty but that could be too much but i'm thinking back mama m._r. Read might be sending nine. If you give me fifteen we can make it happen so gimme fifth and it could be like okay. We'll give you this now. That's not the number. I'm thinking we'll give you this as you know he could play a game but i'm just hoping to get made because i think you'll brain in joseph bag on the boomerang. If i was ending got to give me about about half a million and bitcoins instead of the government cain tax jubran on the ringwood up shut the t._v. Florida oughta work and were of mike smashed headlight but <hes> my opinion i think that <hes> anthony joshua and eddie hearn brought this on himself. If you remember the interview in new york when anthony josh was sitting by that window he said you know <hes>. I'm the landlord and i come to collect rent and then if you beat me you become demand so when the hell do somebody become command because they try to control the fucking rematch clause and this is why nobody wanna fucking fight them and get an ago she with them and <hes> one one other note <hes> reading the article it seems that <hes> they passed they passed the bill over saudi arabia to give these women rights and to be able to travel without men and get equal rights and workplaces in different things of that sort so maybe matchroom eddie you know knew about some of the politics politics that was going on over there to try to stage it over there but <hes> continue all the hard work at our door and shot t._v. T._v. for life and and <hes> that's all i got follows. Bring jobs back on the boomer rainbow real quick guys six hundred forty watching. We just had my carbajal wanting wanting to lead reporters in our sport is of the world or whatever it guests you want us to get on. They don't want to get on a show. That doesn't get the numbers right so make sure that the numbers are there you share in it. You help grow so that we can continue to get you these. You know top interviews. I was gonna call stevenson but i know sometimes sounds. Bob acts little little wear he'd be like oh. That's not even my fighters or how would i know what he's thinking but i wanted to get his thoughts on like like if i would. You let them go to saudi arabia. You know what i'm saying like catch by at least at the by mohican. He talk to y'all day. Let me see so for for joseph and others like joseph right the way that it works as you got your boomerang but if there's like a mastermind or ringo the hasn't gone i gotta go to them. I figured that there was no sound. What was the pound. I what what what you say right. Well yeah pound for pound goes before joseph regardless so they go before it. Everybody no matter the the align yes r._v. Into he's speaking he will appear man this bullshit borough it is disallowed. Nobody wants to fuck this. Let me get my point. The only got like a million and a half now you could talk about shitting me. All you want but look. I'm not only reason why i'm saying man. Eddie is like my negative. You really want somebody to bus down down nine million and he's got a hundred dollar. Check like you you you ask them for too much like they could have just say no. We're gonna throw your exit ten million to set set you up or five million all all back in on on something but bro you they they were communists was trying to bust on the dollar and this feel special. What do you want me to dollar. Everybody want me feel special. They identified the onset of scientists. Why or is this craziness. You ask them for too much. Your only only get probably two megabytes your whole entire fight you telling me you want the man to go to two megabytes in his life and still not not castile type money damon nichols. Take your hands off. We see our. Will you go. You keep doing sheet frame because hey you should hurt my day. Mike say that coffee versus spending sailboarding packers expense. That's not being asked pack jabre suspense at the spans the cap as patio that crossfire going be heaved and we always want to call it always wanted to bash the behavior turns doing with fighter. He secured in a bad light at the end of the day. We found the right. I you know everything that's going to going to go on. If i can get a better venue for my guy and get more money then that's my prerogative. Dan got none. Do what you don't wanna guaranteed. You can get the man pocket. Do you my my if you were where buckman package and be prefight of the first fight. Don't don't do it now. I don't know why you taking this stance. You know good and well the andy going to get what he wants. I know it's good for chad i because uh they got they in they yell. He got him by the balls. There's not much you can do main like he got him by the balls 'cause day and then the daylight a._d._m. A._d._m. can take it accord indians throughout haven for their legal fees if they if they win you know what i'm saying in verse and how how history repeats itself they will win tyson fury. Did this man like once you beat the dude you won you won and and you can i can see from ruiz's personality he reminds a._j. He won. He called him a robot uses. An emoji like come on hill need the fighter mcginn a._j. Safai defy him again so they better make sweet. Apparently not i mean talking about if we talk about the about months you buy the making money exactly and that's what the and that's what the u._k. Do best whenever they see they may can't fight the man can make check though i know you're way but checking shoes that's okay. I'm not saying they i it before legacy. Did i agree with you one hundred percent but we just talking about making money in this bert he can't do it regardless. I hear you man. Let me see what we okay. We got mastermind elms in the building your ankle don't come to heat. You know our delete shit not into that business his supervisor upper six on the way you talk about your <hes> because you tom probably <hes> retract tried to his message but i did it before the super. Why do you know what he's doing. <hes> basically tyson few situation he he got stripped because of a rematch close so he had to remove lead <hes> when it comes to do a._j. Yeah but remember. I'm only used incisive incisive theory as an example in the stands that like he didn't go forward with the rematch and didn't lose any cloud as long <hes> as you can see he came back after two years and got a super duper american pay per view in hasn't been yet to do. I always always foundries frozen boss away he oughta clout in the world but when it comes to the saudi arabia and safe mexico level two as well so ford out the window and he wants mexico colder mexico a different type of level now kinsey the head of saudi arabia all inclusive resorts on monday should run. They say on fighting against the government over there. Stay in charge as offer. Let me let me tell. You can't smoke weed so that's crazy andy. Andy wants a little bit extra money he begging so we're going to give a little a couple of million for over the no peasants some money over there and boom. 'cause you see the only u._k. Do listen think about it. Who used the word peasant day. We already our not come on man. It's too easy tribute so i've been talking about so. Tell me about who a._j. Not not white and didn't why is who firefighter comes full circle big dog costs surco big. He sees it. He wants to repeat it. You know no but it's whatever i'll see you. Try you. Try and get us your boomerang. That is though you know. Let me see make sure nobody else over the way wait. I gotta see where's this guy. He just do a do that. Don't never press one didn't go against boomerang night. Then we're going to joseph where you at look. What makes my bed man now nine. I got you didn't get skipped them nothing but he's not only known known seem okay so much on these six comes up to me i would i was up to them. They saw the show today but this speaking on his contract situation read the thing about it. If he going to say that he felt like it was a dangerous situation. They're not gonna enforce that shit and it ended today yeah he he. He's contracting obligated to fight him. Next louise go home to set the house on his belt gets stripped away and i do shit you can't you can't force him to get up do anything so what would be a victory or with no no belts i mean what are they doing that but you know there's obviously something to him. Gonna flat flat fee. I if if that first number you guys are talking about eighty million. Oh eddie doing what that's where fire and he's doing. What's best for him because if he was doing what's best for his fire. He wouldn't be having fire fighters again with clearly. He hasn't figured out what you did wrong to lose the first fight. This is the him trying to cash them out and it's obvious so he's willing to take them anywhere. Whoever pays the most money he's gonna go get so the reason we get down on her because if this is dr king everybody's where he was the devil they talk so bad about our heyman and he ain't never talk talk before so it's ridiculous. I just want to see the fight but she get a man fifteen million. I it got eddie. Hurt is a master's stopping fights and we keep act act like he's doing some big. We can't name one big fight that he's made. I mean we can't think of one big fight and he made the any of us to watch it. It just made ruis joshua to watch this shit cure brick. I definitely flee wanted to watch come on man which one real quick just made ramirez hook good. I wanted to watch that real quick dobra what is age as playing chessman man. I like me all right. What is he already knew that saudi arabia wh option ainu the two. I'm not saying he's this farm to say in where you're going with this so those out i will you could be the referee down. Tijuana andrew weeds comes out. I'll fight you until one and it makes it go do that. What is tijuana mexico level to and what do you use in court. If you try to bring that up that sound bite that tweet right there god damn. I mean i can see that. I thought he was gonna add the full. Bring it full circle and say that's how you get it back in the u._k. You know because it's like oh you don't want to go to saudi is. I don't think anyone back in the u._k. Right now in safety i think he's a he'd we'd fight in saudi. I whatever andy i'm gonna give them a little bit more money but me alan just said that. Eddie is receiving eight million less than what zone is willing to pay for an american site. We chant but that's the that's the the best broadcast she got to the time difference now because of of the actual sightsee by an american dougie begin more money to cross the it'll be a bigger audience 'cause he used the word sifi so i thought dissolved was paying for the american psyche step paying for it to broadcast a fight but it might be are you looking for a rewarding career that pays well and offers vacation in days from the start. If so then drive for penske penske is hiring safe experienced truck drivers to operate their fleet of more than three hundred thousand vehicles for dedicated routes outs join our penske team and drive the difference talk to a penske representative today to find out what jobs are available in your area and apply now call eight five five c._d. The l. penske that's eight five five two three five seventy. Three sixty seven. Now is the chance to use reliable energy to grow your money with the dominion energy reliability investment. Our new investment product offers competitive returns no maintenance fees and flexible online in access to your money. Make the reliable investment in reliable energy the dominion energy reliability investment to find out more go online to reliability investment dot com. That's reliability investment dot com light less ten figures which is a lot of money 10-figures list as to broadcast because of the time the time that's going to be on but he's probably making that up in the saudi because between forty million dollars in eighty four million eighty dollars somewhere in between there this what they get. I mean you know when i first read the forty. I'm like damn did eddie pocket forty six he given for he gives him forty two joshua keeping out of the forty six. Damn let me go out to aaron. Talk to me so any eddie hearn brought out here in cali ahern has brought the era of flat fees. I mean why isn't it just as a split up percentage. When did he start doing this because it's never been this way in boxing hardly ever you. You did give us forty percent. He's going to be happy right so he's already bowl sitting out heyman and what we have the leverage. Even if we doesn't take the fight for whatever reason he'll he'll come out the winner because tyson fury he never lost against a._j. And really hearn an as air offer the belts more than what we used to the basket and leverage so don't take the fight that the basket fractured up hayman. We'll probably the fight with wilder for sir and that's it. I mean i i lived yeah well but if it up wow it's gonna have one of those three belt. No no no no. He's gonna have the leverage. What i'm saying is if he doesn't take the fight. I think the only sanctioning bodies he's distributors w._b._o. And i bef you'll be able to stay with the w._b. And unified wilder perfect perfect but still have the fighting t._j. I i'm in san diego and if you guys come out to <hes> ortiz wilder in l._a. I'm gonna take you guys down to hong kong taking outta. Leaders like you see what's really cracking what strip clubs. It's party time at t._j. Man so. I don't know why anyone would not wanna avin t._j. 'cause everything anything happens under the sun at t._j. T._j. his cracking cracking so <hes> you got hana. He's saying it got him. One okay onto whistle the strip clubs are cracking me along with cracking tour. I i'm salmiya. They cut his saami up. I'm by down in flooding tijuana right. I don't know but we got checkmate. Take my box and what's the big deal with with my with them ned a._p._i. Emmy and under okay yeah first of all with the contract or want to say this real quick <hes> we can get out of that contract under the unconscionable contract that i'm conscionable contract is one that is one-sided that is so unfair to one party there for unenforced ones of the law and this type of contract at least one party with no real meaningful choice usually do two majors. They're yeah partition bargaining power between parties. I've actually a couple of people out of. Can you do that to a contract threatened we already this is a rematch. Well remember this. This gift started so if this no no no no yes coupon mike if if all of a sudden listen i'll what i'm saying is he had head less than forty days to get the fight and you know stupid. Everything was so rush rush rush conscionable contract back acts but mike mike. I'm trying to tell you look it up. Please google uncomfortable contract. I've gotten three people uncomfortable contracts okay at the so one-sided okay the and it's being because of the part of the bargain about <hes> the party. He can't get out of it. No one is mitch and i put it in a text many many times. I'm conscionable contract a one hundred percent. You can get out of this one hundred million dollar fine because they got the u._k. <hes> pay per view. They got the zone money and he got the <hes> the other the money from <hes> saudi arabia guess what then that's older a hundred billion dollar ponzi paneth man of nine. That's an unconscionable contract. One-sided sided no way a person who's holding four belts is going to get less than ten percent of all of them when you come on. It's unconscious contract so let me move on from that and say it is. I told you this is the because the fight is not meant to happen this year. This is how little bulb a._j. High low ball wilder is how he low balled. I'm no-balls everybody so this is cause. Commotion too fractured the situation. I'm telling you there's no way despite half of this year and this is eddie's first salvo. This is his first ball because they know how are you going to call a contract. Oh i'm gonna give you this day. Speak to release about it all of a sudden. Oh oh i didn't come on. I'm i'm guaranteeing you. Guys is not happening this year but this is unconscionable contract that the terms can be <hes>. We work now. I got three people out of his check. May boston study do real estate. You got three people out of them but i think breeding says nazi-era is doctrine contract law the describes <hes> terms that are so extremely unjust or overwhelmingly one sided in favor of him which who has superior bargain about wow then the articles contrary to good conscience tires. You've been checkmated. Might you've been no. I mean i i agree does does it. <hes> <hes> candidate bring a halt or stopped up to a contract that was already agreed upon and the first fight you and you already took money from the first fight this mike it. Don't no matter you drag this out. It ruins it for the other party so it makes them more liable to settle. Don't matter that this is all part of the game plan ultimately you just gotta give what he wants because either way you lose. You're in the long run. You might win. 'cause you get the lawsuit if it goes to that because they'll still give us options settle out you know and it can still be rochman where he is forced to fight count that the court has to dictate were whether it's uncomfortable so they take the court then there may may be a reason where it's hoops are cast was still on that so i want to so okay so i said well bring me to in the beginning so he ain't that type of core. If the court is the one that i'm saying the core obviously is going to hear the defendant and plaintiff breath and that's what andy kicks everything. He can't even bring his wife and kids more man but you want to get too soon yeah one more more from benjamin franklin. We talk more business than boxing. Eight-man boxing is a sport. This boxing business disguised as a sport hell yeah. Boston is the last thing that happened. They fight more on the business side than anything else all right. We got oh alumna info giant portion of we call living. You don't file yeah yeah yeah. I <hes> everybody hits. Those thumbs up t._d. Is putting in network hit. Those thumbs up ios shutout checkmate eight four info on that but i think that andy release is just posturing for more money saying that <hes> he's in endangered by going to saudi arabia. Do you know there's a travel alert from the old coming to america right now but for the shootings in el paso saw aw but <hes> i was hoping that the fight would be in l._a. I hate is going there. Who would want to go to a fight that you can't have a beer or have a drink. May i could i can't i can't see even being live. I don't care what they saw on t._v. Y'all i never had a drink when i watching the fight of you know what i'm saying yo the bars the full mike i did take saudi authentic saudi arabian food long beach and it's basically lamb chicken and go in in rice in the city was bombed at all. I actually did <hes> putting surveillance. Abandon cameras put his restaurants so a lot of these sipping a lot of that shift comprom- overseas and stuff but i thought it won't be over spicy man but it's actually good and they use that kind of like pita bread and <hes> sheik was bombed in the city was called open sensing me you know but i hope that fight it happens. <hes> i think ruiz it gets fifteen million and <hes> some somewhere around that area no higher than that with no reno. Maybe thirteen fourteen changed fifteen should be kept you about that and you should get that but going to saudi arabia though that's my call brothers. Thanks for the work piece. I disagree with that fifteen the report yeah it's funny man u k fans are like oh. You know you pass they now. Oh you guys don't wanna fight man you guys you know so you're not real boxing fans. Look at you telling them to go to court but that's the difference between us. We fighting for uh-huh fairness. You guys are calling in peasants. You know take that maiocco. Boxing is not fair enough fair sport and that's why when you got a powerful guys out you use them. That's why this is terry a side and b side and then it's not a fair sport shit is shit. There's always going to be a this is truly a fifty fifty. Five is going to be always a little bit one-sided towards asia a my show me how heyman fighter the winning to his super fight unhappy our way remember trout was his he got kodo and cannella more was this is he got he got cannella earl. Mike thurman paco danny fucking matisse. He's i mean. He got thousands of south. No no no no no no no no no no on on suicide but danny on put them on the map but remember he was under that was that crawford moment except crawford for prescott in danny four kind you see the difference and then go beat the guy who become your are you. You're right. Oh my gosh. I'm not you know what we ain't going to do. We ain't gonna do it. Do it. Do it. Man that's funny is crazy crawford in the finding both if now think about it full circle full circle now you see on social social media say he didn't wanna dick schaap member member. He was like yours talk boxing and he was like yup. You try and change something now. I'm very raw. Oh god danny carbon info going out to <music>. Oh let me get to some of these new callers. I got elisa talk to to me. It's gone on your logic that utilizing imagine. How can you hear me now. I can come at this from so many hours yeah. I'm gonna come just from a few. I angle do you americans upper thirty trinity towards storage that bring this just age as a robot a._j. Stink you go up twice and never have to hear about him again. Why are you know another another thing yet. You guys never make this money in house but when you want to a._j. You wanna say you just take the money from five guy being a move one. You guys that atla pussies as if you're getting but beat up in front of you you'd run your pistol. You always fucking duck <unk> budget. Hey guess what happened to a._j. Go fuck up again a me one. When have you seen a big man. Where have you seen the by a had the beat you up twice because he's a robot is giving the highest painting still crying and that's smile. After the fact we don't have to struggle no more optimism humble looking at compete. Just fucking one coming from a man can take it easy. You don't graduate you played ages out. Don't bus a blood vessel champion. Don't bless above vessel who we got. Let me see her. Hopefully we we. We got more like a lot in charge. The talk of the one of mine is it because that's honda alex boys. Were actually on your side. He's british. It's jamie progressive's number one number two employee leave leave a message at the hey jamie. It's me jamie this. Is your daily pep talk. I know it's been rough going ever since people found out about your acapella group mad harmony but you will bounce back back. I mean you're the guy always helping people find coverage options with the name your price tool. It should be you giving me the pep talk now. Get out there hit that high note and take mad harmony all the way way to nationals this year sorry it was pitchy progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law. The stylized lounge presents an evening with the progressive classic box. That's you go tickling the ivories he just saved by bundling home and auto progressive gonna finally i buying for that gal of yours hugo sending my condolences this next one st there's thank you progressive casualty insurance company affiliates discounts on available in all states or situations the crocodile fucking unhappy start over having yet over. Let me start. Let me start these days british bitches. I loved the why did they change the narrative every time it doesn't suit them at the start. It was ba- take the money beat anthony joshua then you have the case to the kingdom now now someone is beaten. Anthony joshua like take the money again and you'll never have to hear about him again. What what are they going to change the narrative when he gets beat again. It's just ridiculous like eddie keeps throwing out these dumps live contracts non million six million no one on the planet <hes> no-one on this planet in boxing basically as you said this has a superfly and doesn't pay up but eddie hearn and every single time eight hundred puts up some bullshit contract to avoid some sort of we had this as for us with the answer walter. It's ridiculous every time this happens the british public come out onto. Just take the contract. Just take the contract. You have the case to the kingdom now all of a sudden. It's take this contract again and it's all good you know like then. You never have to hear from us again. It's bullshit man donny good one coming out of these countries killed brooks damn australia cut is in until queen power over there might reach man say it ain't so alex alex. I met that guy in biggest call nine alex. You find yourself. Let me know caused by new like lodging. Wouldn't you people at people. Actually actually we got a._j. Talk to me a._j. I wouldn't go man won't be real. You can tell them over here so i can kinda talk all that shit over one day. I'm lying. You know happy muslim head what had to manage if they were the fun of somebody who dipa power movement bovine on the roof <hes> from what i from what i was seeing on the on the venue is shit got less than ten thousand motherfuckers the whole motherfucking world oh and all of the fucking u._k. And the dams from maine everybody in the u._s. Trying to suck ac- you. I'm saying plus one does want does he could sue here the shit don't add up if you got big man in the whole k. Come i get the i'm not. I'm not chipping on the venue. It's the fact liked the viewing you gotta. You gotta understand on this <hes> we. We've been seated at what twelve o'clock on that i if the schedule the way it is that's why mike my copy is going to be like eight cigarettes from the broadcasting fee. That's leaving me man. You get what i'm saying like the shit don't add edit add on a business standpoint for the pelotas shit but in in in terms of the fans and i'm not talking talking about it. I'm talking about the u._k. Phillies they want to get fit again downplaying but i'm open to they. They won't be everywhere trying to talk to you. I'm saying that they don't add up but the meeting a._j. Thanks for calling him bo obama. Talk to me. I've been online as my time. This shy shut out the tai-bo redick bo bo bo jackson who is a._j. Who is alive. Who is who is checkmate who is and who was done on trying to stall call interrupt me while ball shoutout to eighty for maker released by most shut out to ruis but acting brand new shutout protecting tyson fury every route if it was tyson theory and deontay wilder was the same thing going on in this case. I believe that we pretty much act like a fury with deontay wilder rematch. We take the entree waterside on to that. I know that fight turned out differently but it was really was the b side got blessed opportunity when fight came up in the regards happened the way they did you take the hollywood rail and act like you never got made by. The mayor who major is understandable also shutout shut up to the rules protective. Will i feel you. Could i blame where we you know. I like to actually talk about. Five don't happen rather than unwanted not happening no time soon anyways so they're being said. I'm looking forward to the code levin yard y'all trying to do <hes>. Russia knows a man. Do vote wrestling cut but i wanted to ask you. How often have you seen a site in excess of forty million dollars or even heard of something like that. I mean <hes>. I guess that's part of the elite at broadcasters. Should i mean i guess the i mean. I'm not even go down that road. Yeah you're right. I'm not going to nkala old school row town road. Let's go now. I know it ain't it ain't true is going to be the listen they going. They are they going to be like oh here. We go again and and you know what i'm done with that man. I'm done with that. I i moved on. You know the universe took care of everything did you did not the universe took care of it so like i'm done with that and we got. Dan been a minute alabama. Talk about acting brand new. Hey ma'am and i hear a lot of motion. People come on y'all nigga card in and six years nigger on the comeback arar because of course look look who's talking out man on. I've been busy <hes> but you know what i think. Is this little salty 'cause fat well. When i there whooped you and now he wanna stand on you. You know like she is like we used philip fat girl. She put you out on social media you out in the open. You can't get it back is tough man my boy my boy voice. There ain't taking that bullshit awfully. I see all your nigga. Ain't i good snicker sending me money. Y'all be sending me money. It don't matter he's gonna keep on. The parents is go choo. Y'all give him what he won't even to just take nine million dollars. Why you making wet ninety something we're going to do that. You know he got the message is on his side to and he got out on no way. You should make demanding nine meeting. He just woke joyous. I will joe ass now. You want me to take you want me to take these limited as our our joe as you want on your bag. All your knees calling around trying to fat. Boys is up for the wind man we we we hear me and <hes>. I think it's gonna happen again anyway. Naked low low ball the how the money that night one night a._j. Partly a._j. You were raised by knockout in a in a ray robinson and jazz kept what he put draw and they'll probably like two hundred thousand one like two to three hundred dan. That's it for fucking ruis. Bond rock out and you want a dollar a dollar bit he he was mad because he he <hes> he he's. I listen to you on the dollar. I three hundred dollar. That's still great. I know three hundred is is great off of five fifteen the hammer home the one that he'd been missing mayb and spending that money out the boland colonist shit tana goto boom van gogh parts of what's dot com dumb his home base second so you know what's going on is show boy h. Money mr zone the boxing boys two thousand nineteen rookie year and is a sad day. Anyways is keep finding excuses this anthony joshua first of all he does the u k. He's already you you. You have the cojones dishonest zahn contract for the rematch but you scared to go to the u._k. Now you making excuses to come to saudi arabia because you know what's go- i happy you know you go get nocco. Go like how seen in the rematch against lennox lewis you go. Get don't like buster douglas in his first title against evert hog. How do we feel what's up excuses. I thought he was a mexican. I thought he was a champion. Last time i checked. He got his ass be by joseph parker. We you did a study. Oh patriarch everybody signed up right now barbershop conversation on the knockout bitch ass out they do you. Can you doing good right man all right all right included barbershop man come on man energies energies bob barber shop. Go live to get shit tobacco. Hm we got a new calling nine one seven new call for why they're walmart arado auto status. We got stunner jersey download t._v. Ios salute t._v. Y'all wanna touch on this. <hes> oh i wanna make an appeal out to the iowa and then we can see while the versus <hes> komaki nike barclay center sold out split crowd half the while hassle nagy res josh. What's going to happen regardless but this is my last four. I don't wanna touch on. I rarely you know me. I don't like the u._k. Come out and they j. watt but i wanna say something now. For over a year. Y'all used to have shows having people call in making appeals to wilder to take these flat fees. You guys like not not you. You got per se. I'm just talking about the callers so i find that funny. How now we have any release a guy who had half the pfizer you know ten wilder are doesn't have nearly the type of profile wilder does he signs flappy offers. You got were encouraging wilder to take for over a year and now you've got to call it and say oh. This is bullshit. Oh no don't do that now. Keep that same energy encourage them to call him a coward for not taking agents say bullshit so don't try to wear now that a j release are no. This was the judge no fucking contract. No i don't could could cut it. I realized his angle but one thing you got to rely when gosling house win titles and they ain't quite sure they can beat the other champion danny rushing. It's no fucking implication. They wanna home down like maybe a couple of voluntary's. Maybe a mandatory for the unification buddy. Let's see we got <unk> search and see. Who's this first time caller now. One seven year was going out then. Mike mike upbeat genetically now deserve. You understand where i'm saying. We won't stand. I got a couple of seconds. Let me do my pain but listening if you take them in nine million dollars. That's nothing it'd it'd be and then you won't get more money going to get more money. Do try to lose weight. So what does that mean. They get their money here in about her that signed the contract dry. I'm any time you end up going. Some different. Things is in contrast is all about nicosia borough and push it too so i enjoyed my worker and keep doing it saying babies all be baby boomerang on on the talk to me or donna reason why y'all not destroying ryan joshua is because he got an american black side because the floor mayweather would have pulled this bullshit they would have had articles out to date <hes> pieces out today about how of fantasies it is is craziness. Man buzz down nine meeting is create and all you care. Call us all y'all the jonah's bro all took steroids last night on the way all came from y'all got all this testosterone. All y'all the giants. I haven't heard not single. One of your own personal hurt his the deeds deeds is only one as incredible around here in l. possess but you'll have them because he got a fake brother but hey you can't call us. Keep the same industry and it might. It might be a reason eight joshua because we don't have you can't call it. A thank god the rain so i guess i got y'all might in january and be the bounty and be knowing their my energies always in sync you see like that's just me right and explain what i mean. When wilder was being offered them webcasts offers i was doing show after show and shot out the stunned for reminding show after show you know telling him to take it you know and then when we hear shelley tell us about the rematch and how they dragons like oh. Why do we met has got to be this way. My energies like why gotta beat you twice while i gotta beat you twice then went billion a year. Now it's not just wow the now you can't just say while does make an subbing subbing. He's hard to negotiate even dealing away saying you know and then it just came out more and more so now they did take the flat theo toll while the tape. I still got at the same energy. Fuck you re matching your fifty fifty s shit. Ain't nobody beat you. Don't control the second fight. I get the contract from you know i get that. It's a legal battle at this point but morally it'll go down that way and that's why wilder never some because how you gonna control me twice hi. I'm a beach when i gotta beat you again and i gotta do it the way you say now. We're gonna go to court but but he didn't sign right who wowed loud year doing white insein right guess who did sign it. Though andy roy's june joe you you major baby. Hey baby lying. He is that dog he he dylan he plant at hand. There was doubt got still got excellence league league as he got an. I've been doing this man. You can help me because i smoke right. Let the cia help me help me. How many times we've seen a file get announcing this happen. I mean we had posters has tags. We had press releases press conferences. France's monday is the press conference. Are they going to settle their problems before monday. Because everybody was everybody we are now they. They weren't supposed to be at the press. Covers is is one of the ain't got nothing to do with that any what's so what was that he going to well. We're here to announce a fight. The widow is going to happen. We're we're eventually going to squeeze a lot of. It's a month. I'll tell you that yeah yeah and that's all i'm saying is show me a fight of this magnitude four belts on the lawn that was announced and then was in question. Just doesn't happen not here because this is unprecedented really exactly so they got to. They got to treat this delicately. Gotta treat it delicately all right. We got some more calls. We got a lot of people in calling in today so if you're watching this on youtube don't forget uh-huh up on health with the visibility show plus. Let us know that you do enjoy what it is that we're doing around here. You know you know how's the visibility visibility ticket. Atlanta talked him g._t. Yeah you're going on. Mike glad you just came to be mad because mike hit it right on the head. I didn't sign because he thought the contract wasn't right. Lotta didn't sign because he doesn't want to fight but that's neither here nor there any re signed her contract and so now you gotta obligations and if you thought it was wrong. You shouldn't shot now. You talk about all this. Oh you know mom. You ain't gotta struggle. No more would change my life who okay now. It's rematch time contract. Stipulations for the contract for the rematch are in the original contract so i mean there's there's nothing there's nothing to discuss taking nine million taylor rematch. If you beat joshua you write your own ticket aside against fury or wild or any other heavyweight. Wait you know if you lose you lose. It is what it is but i mean you still get paid. Now you see you don't go to the fight. Don't take the fight. I mean you're gonna end up in court. You ended up poor. I mean this is easy choice man if you didn't like it you shouldn't sign a contract saw to it. I mean it's boxing you know and if there's nothing else to discuss yes i've i've gatien's or take ale. I mean it's only two actions you finish yes. You didn't so you done brian huggins. He must have got we in america. This america is america. There's a judicial system in every county. He bugging it don't matter where he think i saw like he obviously never bought nothing. You know what i'm saying. He ain't never the argument is cable company for pay-per-view glitzy nothing. You ain't got zero negotiation skills dog. I want you to keep that same energy when we announce in a chauffeur ruis person going stocker. Stop falling on this can we. We cannot blame eighty breeds sitting back seeing sucking eighty four million dollars on the heck out rats did he got the u._k. Pay per view didn't get design. I'm only getting one hundred million dollars that i can see only nine million contra trek thing i can see both both parties know better. Argument is going play. Play eddie harris glad to focus on their money got he. You don't want to fight to be in jeopardy ended. They go style and on that day so ease in dallas. Absolutely it's going to be eighty in the media say now we can give them but on on the on the hush-hush yeah he he happy l. Happy everybody happy by going forward. They squeeze in them and he going to get squeezed. May give up that bread man. Anybody that thinks otherwise is crazy. I i hope any don't come in with a realistic figure twenty five million twenty million library you can't you can't get w perfect whatever he got. The first asahi probably won't like you know three or four times the mana. I got four belts on the terms in this. Hey a a oh you know what i bet. You wish that fifty million now. He got forty million four five. Oh is he because last. That's got that shit in jeopardy. That's what we talk. Show on better. Stop supermax actually sorry super mexico elms on a boomerang he acts with i go <hes> i. I don't mind like like this is funny 'cause if a._j. Was getting for a million would andrew heath care or is it because ages getting seventy five close us. Yeah remember ruis ain't a._j. Got thirty five million ruiz's just because released didn't complain about it is money until the information of what age is getting came out recently. It was always where the fight would be now that the fight is in the money got shown. He's a now. I need a bit more like that's that's on pocket watching and if i don't mind like this for me go to don't care how much they i mike. How do you know the contract they d- he wasn't the day found out how much he was making. We say in the media in the me look out. That was the meetings secretary. Yeah i approach to win but when you have the power of the money was only the you. I'm not going to the u._k. I wanted to be based. I wanted to be l._a. Or even new york he he never saw rodeo arabia. He never say anywhere else. I'll sit. You're not listening. According to the information that we have ebanon just speculation. Michael carpenter says that he said he's going to need says significantly more to go to saudi arabia. That is the problem. It's not the nine million issue you want. You want not merely giving neutral territory. I'll do it in las vegas. I'll do it in los angeles out doing a new york. I'll take my now you want me to go to the middle east. You wait. You say ganic cutting yeah. That's what i'm saying. That's exactly what i'm saying. Read the tweets. That's exactly what i'm saying as exactly what i'm saying. Let's say andy ruiz says he wants significantly more to go to saudi arabia so no no no that narrative about why he had a problem with the nominee cause. He ain't have a problem with amendments because the fight was supposed to happen in new york. Hello las vegas. Los angeles mexico or the u._k. As you know as well as i know what the way they come out with with these stories and the way they presented to the media. They're gonna have it word properly. He wanted more money because he's seeing what the money came out. It's not funny. Fight being and saudi arabia is likely spend significantly more money to go to saudi arabia what why andy. Why do you need more money. Go to honey rabia. What you see come out. What do you mean why there's only been two big fights caliber smith and george grows and amir khan conor fucking billy they were smooth but it that that's not joshua versus released for four belton heavyweight division before before before a security shooting you you you wanna be security beefed up my check. Why you would be up everybody else. Check you gonna hire more security being y. You ain't gonna lie my pocket audience. Saudi arabia ain't going to saudi arabia. I thought you was where about. Are you worried about the saudi arabia or are you worried about to let me know say what you read about. What are you worried about coming to saudi arabia or are you worried about you know. I'm worried worried about going to saudi arabia for that amount of money yeah. That's what he's saying. I can't go to saudi arabia for that amount of money. That's not what we talked about and you can't talk talk radio to fight me for lindahl. Nah i right. I've been i've been with you know listen. I've been dying to say this that that we haven't put into perspective right yard is going to hours from the u._k. For four point four million okay kovolev excuse me dirk janko was fighting in america for five point five million and he still might be fighting in america for five five point five million versus ghana gluskin now jacobs four in america for twelve point five million with one belt. Oh so yeah man yeah you gotta. Give me more to go to saudi. Arabia did not have a pre existing fighting from that. You already agreed absolutely right absolutely right but guess what that fight i guarantee you eddie didn't tell them it. Who's gonna be saudi arabia. That's a big up. The buster douglas mike tyson. I need more money to go to a japan fight you there buster douglas. Tell mike tyson. I know he was the b side not to be fired not anymore. Don't you get it. Oh my god you listen the only thing that they got his rematch clause which continues to be less if he gets stripped. I wanna see mexico. Put up a forty million dollar purse bid to why didn't tell me a._j. Is no no longer decide. Listen mexico and got to put a forty million dollars purse because andrew. He's got a flat fee so he ain't try. He al his shop in a fight. He got a flat fee. He just ain't going to saudi arabia and he wanted to go to saudi arabia which is very far for him. Give him some more money so sir. I don't know why anybody is shocked and upset like we haven't seen this before can nello like we just see sergei kovalev say on the mall and and say that the offer was almost there like that's negotiations. That's human nature one hundred dollars. I'm telling you i'm getting not ecorse. Even me you fuck me. I'm getting different. It's one hundred bro. You got ninety. One you gotta now with a one nine. He going to get that bain doing all this for nothing we one other supermax on boomerang these point and i would be in the same way but the other day fairly says playmate. Her hearner's fulfil his obligations. Contractually you know nobody. Nobody knew with rewrites. When you negotiated a rematch clause for the first fire i mean i don't think for for one thing anybody on any heard side thought it was gonna be a rematch and then here comes saudi arabia thrown out all this money but then like. I said their their obligation is fulfilled. We'll give you my million which you agree to you signed up for you said that you felt like you could win that fight at and that's what she would take for the rematch. Let's see now. That's just playing devil's actually 'cause you. Gotta take walls out of it this business and now if i may say i want to spend it for the media. I'm gonna say i will say that just means andy released didn't believe stuff the first time that's why he didn't. He don't care about three match clause. He won by accident. I would i would try to twist that as best. I could if my favorite favor you don't even say andy didn't really believe south. That's how that's how i know was luck because now he's stuck with this rematch that he don't want to you know agreed to you but it's just a whole like i said i agree with annual lease for do what he's doing but also could see why do why doing you know it's is business. Advanta is to save situation is as jerry zeke elliott. I'm like fuck you jerry but jerry jerry hold up the deal l. Contractually you know so it's kind of it's just it's shitty situation man ziyang about the cheese cutter duane talk to me what i'm doing joe wang dwayne north unb. You'd on skype once talk to me. You know yes s. What's up. What would you hear me. Yes sir okay so andy agrees sweep audits right now oh c- was more money but contract call do anything he's already mytalk than earlier and he said about tijuana already talk every way. He's willing to go into these. He's he's gonna. Maybe bogging for more money. Even if he wants to vacate he goes flights. He's compares. We'll see gonna get. He's going to be nine million anyway. So he stopped between a rock into place. He needs to take the fight and get beat and go back to. Maybe get daily <music> so i let that go. That's a competitive because you ain't gonna get no one million the world's unless you're you're waldo a negative one more anyway so you know you stop between a rock and a hard place real dumb hang on nam-il anywhere else unless few real options yes to auctions by de take that she could lose the same thing so he could get off the around he could lose any yeah. That's what i'm saying. This is much much else. This is this is max. They want them to vacate his heading. You'd have to vacate because he's not gonna take their fights and e._s._p._n. Will get one with his left boy. That's involving him. They don't need him that they put out with fury. Do they send back waiting it. Were going to wipe him as a p._c. File fake baker's vacant it could it. We got one from a jamie him and this site. There is no a side or beat side. He has already signed the contract so he can't change the money. We got one from benjamin franklin. If i hear once again that ten million it's a low ball offer. I will grow up through one from karen howard if you already agreed to to a see and the rematch. You can't start trying to turn the tables. That contract was signed as court case coming. Let the court case come because we didn't agree to saudi arabia a._j. Rx respect to h money for smoking release combines combo for smoke bs combo for smoke a sunday show. Catch it on youtube. Those guys do great jobs on the morning man very very tight. We've got one from lewis sixty nine. Big raya for mandate paid a man twenty million. We got one from goto. A piece came. Andy louise were clean a._j.'s chan anytime any place they can fight it as embodied same. You blew off your you know. I was watching ali today the one with <hes> with milk edify he'd beat the shit out of its name. That's all get one from undertaken doc in last one ness mike. What do you think andy's percent is of the nine million promoter could manager kurt cook and travel plus taxes. Pay the man more money. Please and don't forget training camp expenses sparring partners saying everything he just been right now. This is the house mansion speaking of maj. I'd say people rob roy out of all people talking about. I hope he moved into the mansion stramonium. I'm all man. It's bad you try to be funny me on is <hes> as bad as are you done with the soviets hundred yagnik. Everybody sympathize man. We appreciate it. Let me go to tony p p. That's just like my fucking pimp name. I know a pimp named tony p. pimping the name learn to deal with skype yet you win yo listen question. If this fight does not happen what happens to auto both the strength and support from winning bear with me might bear with me. They stripped. They don't go back to joshua accost not been audited. That's all the leverage that we've got all people talking about we. He's don't got leverage. Take the non new. No you know what if joshua wants to be lit again. He got to go through andy ruiz or get more to come among his man. My you know what that one is the mike. How many times have we seen these bodies. They don't come built for favorable champion. Let me finish let me finish and then y'all come. You're not getting it is who is the going on right. Is it the u._b._s. Okay in w._b. Is going and you sick right nah w._b._a._l. There'd be oh okay and that was so joshua four people to get all your shit back example. Hey we've we want money or you. Fucking audit leverage that reads knee also but mike that leverage. I'm gonna tell you how to cut it if they drew brees day on the w._b._z. Is going to be one of the one of and i'm thinking they tag on with the deputy up. They knocked josh wolff for the w._b._z. Title w._b._a. Gonna put a bit along with it and probably the only one that's probably get away the idea i that's going to play out on the w._b. Strips on because the w._b._z. relationship with bbc strengthen now with the w._b. They they don't got no broadway stripped fucking. Oh what they do. Name never stood l. Engage machado super champion remember babies. You can't even a strip <hes> ruiz from the w._b._z. A super champion dave before her who was super champion. They strip a metallic machado. Let me see how does take he was the regular and they elevated <hes> they elevate took belt. I thought they elevated japan burden in college garamba. Tell them you and story so they're all the time but that's what happened. Machado ain't nobody gonna get you. Ain't you'll get stripped. Anying being orchestra you see floyd never got strip. Neither determine come on. It ain't gonna happen bro and neither did a._j. It ain't won't happen bro. They never even mandated w._b._z. Don't mandate the on. I know what you're talking about our story you too but i'm pretty sure we read somebody was a gold or a regular on insecure no way no way both of them were super champion dangle. Don't make that mistake did it went to some golden boy with a pseudonym that machado's golden boy and miguel cotto remember they gotta go belt that we just found around about a month ago joe joyce which one is it. He flawed jezora karatas for vacant title who would champion with four refunded yeah but what's the name of that belt though that's what's important were the world boxing association world title w._b. That that that sound. I don't like the the the the real real sound like no. I'm at the top. One like this who fought for that. Machado jesuit kerala's based monday and lose. They gotta be article article. I'm gonna take a call read the article stephon talk to me. Stephon got you can can you hear me. Can you hear me yeah well. I was going to see him in this situation. Have everyone saying about <hes> the w._b. I won't strip him. They going to strip him because when they have that court order on him he won't be able to fight so they're gonna eventually strip him. I'm cross everyone's mentioning this whole slave contract thing. Nobody complained when mayweather used to give flat fees people to fight him so it on the stand up that's it. Are you a zoo he did off. I guess <hes> i don't i don't even know if mayweather gave lefty. I'm pretty sure can elaine get no flat fee so i don't know what he's talking about but they more fucking roberta tejada guy was fighting in devante davis and i think south for the super bill and they do a machado the regular that's how you got to regular against conceal yeah but but but he was the super super <hes> devante salt shaker he was a super. You found article because i'm shaw you're in an addict or or article. It's going to explain what happened again. There's no way one guy was a super. Something has to happen for someone to be stripped of that. 'cause i'm sure golden boy with a sued why not sue charles. Nobody listen dillion white to to to to the average american. Thank you know that he's nobody and he was threatening to sue and it was like people took that seriously. I i highly doubt jay. Jezreel corrales had the w._p._a. Super built a child who beat him. They gave him the regular instead of one arctic warning. I don't know how we don't lie with somebody with somebody. How do we know that it's true though if devante david fonseca for the w._b. Super title i was telling you i can't distinguish the difference between all those w._b._a. Titles so aw i feel you know i mean there's i think it was like five shows ago which could have been just one or two days ago where we just found out at uh-huh thursday w._b. A gold like that's what virgil ortiz's enforced today but that's not the interim. That's not the regular. That's it's not the super either you know so like. I don't know what they got going on. A brandon talk to me cincinnati kasese. Let us know can't talk fine talk to me. I just want to ask the u k callers wiz that same energy yet the boy dealing white have a contract with oscar rivas about glows and then the next day kim some other gloves whoa how come during screaming about on a contract then but now you want to talk about somebody on on the contract now i wanna stay and with other call komo andes holding all the cards because a._j.'s never going to have a change to the all those belts in one fight again. He's never gonna have that chain so he has to fight eighty well else those. Those belts are gonna go to four wins gonna. He's wanting to fight like four different people to get on belts bank and then we all know he's not you can't do that and the only way that they're going to mandate some of them. Belts be for one five if somebody like wilder fury and we know that that's not gonna happen because they're not trying to see that fight because they know he can't beat them and that's my call all right going out to deny production. What's up fellas man. Wait the hell is going on out there man in the boxing world. Then people are delusional day they crazy. They're not thinking straight ban. Any rees is the heavyweight champion of the world who else going to tell him. He has to fight in saudi arabia if he does it walter four belts that's that's definitely as a <hes> asian the deck right as an asian hand. I mean you know what i mean. This is crazy. I understand rematch tongs. I understand that he has two. Josh got it but i mean i mean staples center and g._m. Okay madison square garden even wimbley weirdly stadium over there u._k. Okay coup nine million cu okay but saudi arabia and take me always wanted him to the middle east man. If i don't wanna fight there and then check check this out and say okay. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna fight. They're all he said. Was you try. Take me all the way to fuck over there. I want more myrtle and everybody's say like the he's saying something wrong. Though he got stripped restrict he argued negotiating. That's it does nothing well when you go. She aided so he it does not does nothing negotiate. He's an effort thinks that any risk not the inside look at look to build cities design does i can't joshua was shot calling shock on everything the whole dollar situation and everything was shock on every day because he had the belts and another things hit refresh my memory i miss an might did not offering to like seven million yup right right right. That was the rumor that they you know he didn't. He didn't take and everything seven million in good. They're giving nine. It has four belts. Ortiz has no doubt cut. I wanna say the w._n._b._a. Is despicable the top. Dan abend tone you that. His name is mendoza. That's the dude. I said i wish i could run ought not to interview the quick one now. They're an article by boxing big up to them. Bob mcgeer rivera there is a lot of confusion going on on when it comes to the by the way title of the world boxing association jezora garelli was w bay champion at one thirty lacks october tolbert was knocked out in the round by a bird machado who catch the world title at turning stone resort in vegas however last saturday night at barclay center in brooklyn devante david's demolish. Hey zeus quasar and three rounds to capture the w._b. The other way title meaning you were under the impression that davis was captured the w._b. A regular version at the way it appears that davies was winning these super super version of that bill but china was somehow downgraded to regular status when he was ready willing and able to fight davis to to make matters worse with mood up from one twenty six and had not fault in seventeen months angry no more well. That's why you gotta always read because it says to make matters worse. No <hes> it appears that it might be claimed by the sanctioning body and i'm using brackets by saying w._b. That machado never actually captured the w._b._a. Super super title if you recall kerala's failed to make weight for the contests and machado fought for the vacant bill. It's now listed on various online records. That machado fought for the vacant regular bell. I aw i'm sorry and previously the records appear to state that he was fighting for the vacant super bell. There are also issues with machado making bacon. The mandatory defense against rafael menchaca who is promoted by veteran promoter don king to purse bids have already been pushed back because king refuses to move forward under the terms of the w._b. Monetary split machado was promoted by promotions and magoo code like i told you and the w._b._a._i. Being made a super champion title when the champion of the organization is alberto machado and he and he's available to fight with anyone and is not not injured either. What is the explanation of the w._n._b._a. Four that we have been working with the lawyers and golden boy a letter etter was already sent to the w._b. President gilbert though has seuss mendoza revealed hector soto vice president miguel co promotions to carlos neurotics. <hes> <hes> what we want is for machado to fight and defend the title he won in a good fight to purse bids have been postponed by don king who refuses to accept the mandatory terms terms of the seventy five twenty five split and said wants fifty fifty. I know you want in. I just want to remind everyone that this is the same that <hes> sanction daniel jacobs to get more than this very same mandatory sony five twenty five for the challenger so <hes> don king's strana lobby which i did last year. That's what happens when you get favoritism on santa's man even though the man didn't make way does not my thought <hes> there's no way that you should should somehow downgraded to a regular title defense and he will zhao champion right so let me fight for that bill put online i if you win it becomes become they can but he didn't win on knocked out. The champion. I'm not out wasn't no go to cards. I knocked him out. I should get their w._b._z.'s title. Not not agitate davis who's fighting coming up from one twenty six. Now that went thirty who's been seventeen months seventeen months should not get elevated to super oprah over me. That's my stance on it but if you did disagree with who got who we got we got we who are we got a new caller. <hes> i'm gonna go with sid. Sid you there. If you've been waiting awhile and you know and you don't think your name acid- and you've heard me say your name that you know. I'm not talking to you but if you haven't called then but you know you name is sid but you've never called in. I'm talking to you. All you gotta. Do you all right in the meantime <music> phonebox in boombox and what a what a what a hey mike how how much how much do we say he wanted to go just to go to u._k. On much money did he say wanted okay. I saw you telling me he said just say oh. What did you say so. I don't wanna more money. Stop it even when he when he can't timothy he knew how much you get. Don't let him don't let him fool you by seeing what he won't win the hour now hold on hold on. Did you not see the eddie her right after the editor fifty is absurd but he is entitled to more money if he's if we're gonna fight outside of america his exact words guide god wouldn't get listen. I know y'all some of our viewers. People who behave on the l._d._c. breath <unk> grilled him about that and he he stated hey. This is just an arbitrary number. Anybody who's ever handled business. I'd and been in a situation the jail say hey if you went from a ten dollars situation to one hundred million or ten million two hundred million situation you gotta arena negotiate in good faith. If not then the person with the belts has all right to walk and there's no gap stripped keep term. He faked can't say faked injuries. He didn't find the two years he didn't get stripped to w._b._z. A book guy lies said the super champion does not have but mandatory you as a super champion days no mandatory. You're not mandated fight. Nobody if you regular champion you are you have mandates but a super champion for coverage cocoa stone boombox. We're going back out suceed one more time you there on new in the meantime brandon your love your mike <hes>. I didn't get to hurt his show. Really my son had another bargain. Daddy wanted gas little band. I keep getting these jobs the <hes> as far as they should goes <hes> i mean i don't envy res exclamation money. I mean he c- biggest got party s._o._s. on the right but he asked for money but eddie hurry obligated to shut out really amazed at the end of the day if the contract were so should we wanna do sand if your team so good why y'all sap some like sixty forty on the rematch if i win. Why did you agree to the shitty number. That's all about now. <hes> now understand that they don't have to do nothing. I mean what's the alternative. Were not taking this fight for the non millions and millions of dollars going to court enough tall thin skinned boasts took him from eating things that dose reason why you get these days anyway so you're gonna go to court. It's been money lose. Lose the belts and not be making money so i just say no suck it up. I mean more money if they can't give it to you again. Good and make the mi- billion oh beat him again and then you call the shot i mean i'm just tired of the complaining. I wanna find a u._k. Not at dame by the u. K. couldn't sardinas audio nugent. Now you plan about the more money as it's like. Do you agree to ship arms now a me. That's how contracts contract work. Could you stay stuck in that contract. Man final thoughts man ruis. I head uh showing. He boss you know they wanted in the u. K said i need fifty so eddie scramble. He had to look for different locations patience. You know yacky thinking ruis ain't in control but a fight there was announced is in jeopardy fight. There was announced his no longer longer being announced. You know so i'll know man ruis look like he ain't control to me. Definitely shaken and i know what's going fall from money. Money going for you know. Dass was gonna fall from it because let me tell you a little story how easy easy it is for release on his two years. Two years mike two years two years in court tweezers litigation like mikey still two years at it right fuck it in two years is cool kirby gaz and fight adam. Adam beats the shit out of him because he old is faa far dust right now. Adam beast breaks over him and wild a unifying barklay in front of twenty. Maybe seventeen twenty you know <hes> the best man win. You know i'm still ride with my man. No disrespect to adam some say wow does going win bot in you know andy been coming out of litigations. He ain't ready to fight wild. It'll be he coming out of litigation going areola fight. Mike love so much and then wild. They're going to be fighting. You know feary. Maybe somebody like that then andy back and guess what i'll hayman i owe you. I oh you andy you want your shot. Go get it. Mexico versus wild liz. Get it ceesay man like the one they can't win them titles bags a._j. How are you going to get all the bells bat. Tell me if dumbbells mm-hmm bells get dispersed right now. Let me tell you how these rankings setup. Let me show you how these ranking setup. Oh man and i and i and these rankings been changed. Ilya white not even w._b._z. Rank is no more right. I've been told he'd been dropped in china. The status is placed vizquel suspension right now so but i've also been so he was dropped from i._b._m. W._n._b._a. Maybe maybe because they came young w._n._b._a. Obvious already got older while in at number. Four dealing is no longer there. Let me city i._b._f. Lasts updated dan. This is july third so this one is old whereas why why why why why why why and even in eased oh why in an i._b._m. Polish let me screen. She okay four member when we did a show yeah. That's why i remember it was it was it was dimitri like nah. Ota wallin's number forty semi updated screen shot that day but <hes> so yeah man i mean a._j.'s row is the w. b. O. right because eddie got all exam to use it. Who's who will fight like fury for that shit or something you know <hes> a._j. Kaffee oscar rivas after that ordeal. I'm sure he's going to be offering oscar. Rivas some fights to keep them chill damned was ranked number eight in w._b. Already he common in an i._b._m. Look you know age as number six six but it's gonna take some tom because he got adam there. I mean he'll get there quick vacant number two so he'll end up fighting. He can fight his sparring partner corner. Ajikwa bell relate now. I mean either even even if you get up to fifteen. You gotta be happy with that 'cause again. You were megan kind of check the first you you ain't been on a free wilder no even dealing wi- level. I don't know how much it was making over at ta bring but apparently it wasn't enough to you happy. Neither was fury italy for vlad and let me tell you and let me tell you something else. When fury came back he still made more than this right. He was donating more than this arrived. They don't perse i then and fury fury then did exactly what we tell them release the do with wild the didn't sign the rematch said fucked every matching when he got a bigger deal same the thing the rules could do though he got he got the win already is over that care race that they can't erase that just like marquez. He never gave back out a rematch. You can array embrace that cannabis them some big dice to roll. If you wanna come back. Let's say you wanna come back to p._c. And do fox pay per views as can you. We fight wiler you. I fight back probably for like areolas light go here. Are they going to put them on rogaine. They won't put him on good. Listen to me. They don't put him on rogan. Good day america to walk. Show scheduled to fight man doughty's all these fools instead of doing it l. a. You know instead of the do it. In america he going to tell everybody to say. Listen mike you miki lie and do go back and forth for radio radio. No american believes that the fight took place anywhere else besides in america no one that lives in america uh-huh okay. No one lives in american. Regardless of nationality is talking about this shop in in the u._k. Or saudi arabia everyone is still hung up on. I'm coming to partake. I'm coming to take over. I'm the landlord i i'm charging rent all that we we are a different breed over here so the shit you talk. You got a back up so fighting in another car. That's not what we want. We don't want that at all so we going back up on jimmy kimble say man. They stripped me food. They stripped me. They want to see a mexican. They had a strict me out the rain. It can't be me in the ring full tunnel. Come find me. He wanted to take me to saudi arabia. Come on we go back story. We going back on a u._k. Dues now. I'm sorry i know you wanna talk but i'm i'm just saying i just put on your fucking thing being american holly. We know how should play out. We see joshua. Get beat up literally beat up you. You think they're going to do everything in power to maintain and their favor okay. You don't wanna and the u._k. But we come into american eddie hearn base ending weeks ago maybe he don't want to fight if i was <hes> in charge of things i don't want to sign in america. I would do it in cardiff this what he's saying from day one they they want you really think that they want america so we knew we knew that already going into this. I will come back here more grounds for andy to get out this deal. Simple your whole your whole campaign was based on coming to america campaign contract to different things. I chant but that contract obviously usually ain't worth shit yesterday. We had asaf fight today. We ain't gotta saw fight who was signed yesterday but anytime you put out all that paraphernalia ellia posters fucking press releases videos now man. I'll maybe it is. I that was done something different. They saw because andy kopplin spoke to any. Andy says i don nash it. I signed for saudi laudi arabia unless they significantly gimme more and he ain't sonnen and then guess what happened when he said that magically the hashtag disappeared and all the all the p._b._c. a._b._c. Promoted ben is gone poof because we rob with. I was man. You need to ride with choice. That's all i'm saying. We're going out to age money on a boomerang told 'em sapphire chats firearm. I mean u._k. Rob with dez. You're seeing it. They're seeing the logical perspective active of a business man. They don't care how you bound to the contrary to. It's over with h you talking on a boom there you over there arguing in sky. Chapman is do argue with what you're what you're a trucker though yeah so you tell me let's say you gotta deal as pay fifteen hundred you fuck around thirty see they making got three hundred thousand for that run you going to say oh you know what i am bringing it back on the money but before i come back i mean i guess what they're going to do. Go go. Have somebody exactly exactly what you ain't got. I guess <hes> ha you fight takes. He got titles and you ain't gonna titles ben trump now but it still boils down to you can't make nobody fight. You can't make them fight and talk to me and then on how you guys doing was above saudi arabia's in back interest in venue for this big fight. Yeah i don't know can you see a kind of just was more up for this fight than ever been for a long time. Can you see the change in his energy. This everything is on the line now. He has reason to be four or five he said <hes> and is the j._d. Interview that he wasn't up for because he is and you we now yeah see how you should play. Yes <hes> i. I don't know i feel like a skirt for louise now. Isn't it 'cause just you really you know <hes>. He's got the same amount of pressure on res. He got approved everybody that was was i gotta tell yourself man build you this kid. Is you know you can't you can't guys are gonna share it by the saddest addessing is believed. You guys june first. Pick in the i feel i feel dirty. I feel dirty yeah but there was new cause us thinking in about walden. Everyone was talking about water because what i love about you guys overlooked. That's what i love. I love regardless. All of skill you guys ride with guys you die on flag. I should've oh my god but now i'm wrong with them. Unlike mike fuck that ron with my chin i got listens while this isn't a dreadful was thinking about well because he really it's no colorado cut it cut hair case champ hurricane min have though hake as man whenever you in a second around you ain't even get knocked down here and you got you got visions of wild some rome man some home. Yo you see no fear in my eyes. I got to know man. There's no man i'm praying. Everyone is our. I wasn't raised like that. I wasn't born like that. It wasn't a plot in my heart babe and this is what i do know man can ellison. He looked into my eyes. See fear because fear though is this is no home fear my heart. The things i had to ultimate asked about me takes you sound like a brother wilder. You told us years ago. Oh yes he did. Hey mango. I get a man he making. That boy look like a proud of it. I said <music> mike i said a._j. Made him look like a prophet. Tell you boy jemmy talk to me. What i what i'm just here in a chat <hes> he age money brought him into arguing chat in skype chat argument rule. Let me find out you ain't talking either you on some age money in a gang fighting in the chat shit. They got ruined too. I'm not talking you had to talk or you hit an chat with the with the with the voice a quick opinion on us and i look <music> at that one i called in after the a._j. Ruiz using l. tieman or something happens with this rematch negotiates and it looks like that's exactly what was route so would that shit. I said it was like like listen. Al hinman has all the belts now disguise about the throw his weight around and that's what we're seeing so hopefully they can work out but i wouldn't be surprised brian f they will display the waiting game. They know they have a._j. In hearne by the balls and that really sucks because the longer they wait the more those the other guys are gonna hurt so it's not looking good but i mean i wish all of them wrong but that's my call all right got h money finally on the boomerang money catch mobile hunted. Do you do with more. No man is going to be a great fight. I can't wait to watch the rematch. The first fight broke records thirteen million views on you to nass s. u._k. Name another fight no matter what you say you can't name another fight. They got thirteen very of you. Answer the question that s the question that the question that ain't a fight fight. That was a heavyweight unify. I'll try talking talking about them. P._b._c. fights a million pay per views since can now. Lets talk boxing since you wanted to watch it. I i got you have ever see barbershop conversation durkin and you come on <hes> you. We're gonna talk about barbershop <hes> so the thing is he said the fight got thirty million views but i was looking for the fight on youtube is not dead. They got hot lights shone years. Go now. Highlights allies got the thirteen million views okay highlight n._o. Four four fights on a zone at so mr h money mr dissolve he's been given false. Information highlights got there. Tim is totally different than the fight. You know somebody's sitting. There wasn't hope is totally different so what he says about pay per views who commits giving them a chance. Do not come here this and other youtube channel uh go today channel with that finish your call or only guy saying what's up and i'm i'm here. I'm hearing a lot of things you know. What i'm saying is school. I'm gonna keep it boss which you defended. What people call the aw jeez so you would keep the same energy. U k barks it okay. I could go either way. I talk about you being a snitch. Let's talk about you know you. You have any money what you you know. I'm real so you me everybody. Everybody coming at you mad because they're coming at you. We ducked you h money. How could we duck you. You ain't never been nowhere. I'm here and i go everywhere like you can't talk that crazy shit to me. I'm here every day and i'm everywhere so you know nobody could duck a do. They never been anywhere. You haven't been seen your own photo like stop it. <hes> we got said talk to me would've see sit well. That's the last call my phone calls man. Look here. I can see both sides of the argument when income to andrew <hes> one more money and i could see the the stance the hardest thing of the might take but i know in at the end of the day that it's going to be tough for them not to say <hes> say yes to end because they want to fight the happen and they won't that a big sightsee so they might have to chuck up a little bit more money so and they've probably going to play out any power to interview next big. Sit down with coogan. We'll we'll get more answers and hopefully get some more answers at the press conference coming monday but yeah hopefully hopefully we get excited man. I don't want to go into next year. You're not knowing the rematch of joshua too yeah. We got southside ducey talk to me it. Please keep y'all saying energy come. Border wars can't wait to meet you t._b. For life l. d. b. c. The book up lou media hashtag dead right final thoughts <hes> ah ruis pulling ace and aho man. They're gonna try their best to milk the situation <hes>. I don't think saudi arabia. I mean look how shock we were. You know <hes> to hear saudi arabia as an option and let alone when it got finalized so i'm <music>. I'm sure that was never in his mind when that rematch clause was signed and and that's what they're gonna have to pay for. You know that was just never a thought you know and i think that there is a difference. Everyone saying you know it's neutral territory and acting like it's no different than the u._k. And the u._s. It's it's i mean there's a difference right. You muted might i was saying come coming to the <hes> when it comes to the time difference. That's a huge advantage for for agent because we all know reasons like ten hours behind <hes> the saudi time so he has to go with after like a month earlier just to get accustomed to dave and how the food you don't even understand like the water could be different. Don't send the water so that's probably wanting more money camp expenses more you gotta bring other shit over and i casino like i said i can see both sides but i see a plan out eddie metro or design or can we chocolate level a little bit more money in an empty room. We might want to say i want a piece of paper by or i want a piece of the of the siphon so you don't get it. Get a percentage of both actually give me two million dollars for sightseeing and then we get to pay per view back in say up to twenty five percents. I'm like that. There's all kinds of ways to up their money but the bottom line is they got to build up that money can't wait to report on it man subscribe to the youtube channel. We'll be doing a lot of fights f for virgil or your team's stand right now. Jets go to is dissolved. The corridor started the muslim. Well all right catch a sore the next one who's it don't get old navy saturday and sunday just just in time for back to school. Girls and boys polos are three bucks in stores only plus saturday. Only genes are ten bucks for adults seven bucks for kids at old navy and old navy dot com fell at eight ten through rate eleven limited five police only mattress. Firm's flashback sale ends tuesday. 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o. D. andy Eddie eddie saudi arabia eddie hearn joshua joshua andrew re mike anthony joshua lennox lewis anthony josh Andy ruiz jamie progressive michael carpenter josh ruiz saudi arabia America bob official tyson