15 Episode results for "Ben Ferguson"

Little Atoms 608 - Ben Fergusson's An Honest Man

Little Atoms

33:22 min | 1 year ago

Little Atoms 608 - Ben Fergusson's An Honest Man

"This is little atoms radio show about ideas and coacher with me nailed any they sweet Ben Ferguson talks about the last novel of his Berlin religion an honest man Scott it's a story coming of age novel about a seventeen year old British Jim at teenagers doc and beyond the setting how is this book or is it in any way related to the other to the main connection Sta a now and only man which is the third in a series of books Oh set in Berlin Ben Welcome back to little atoms appear in various ways in his last book I'm missile cameos but also have all the books that connected into selected for Waterstone's Book Club Debate Smith fresh talent and the BBC Radio Not Book Club it was long listed for the author's clubs Best First Novel Award Two Thousand Fifteen thank you for having me as lovely to be back and tell us how you would describe an honest man festival is a mixture of two things and shortlisted for the Sunday Times young writer of the Year award of two thousand fifteen and also won the twenty-fifth Betty trask prize for an outstanding debut novel by a writer it's mentioned in the book but Little Bellingham Spelling Chinese guy I am I was surprised how would pull grasping eighty five and the hate to be a w crowns one thousand fifteen for the best historical fiction debut of the Year Ben is also the author of the over Hoffman says attention while being plotted hopefully being to some degree patients so as you mentioned this one set in one thousand nine hundred thousand nine remind wrath who meets add texture bookseller called all's and falls in love with it but at the same time asset ninety nine imposing dimension and as a Cold War secrets at the at the heart of which comes after in collapsed and other communist powers began to collapse and they opened the border in was setting and they're the three novels Aspirin Kessler hostile system known as Block and separates does what's happening in Berlin in nineteen thousand nine so at Nineteen eighty-nine will fail so I'm Berlin Song for longer than they actually existed and obviously there are characters in this book the soul of the valuable raised for and whilst we had rules about what you could you how to get out and also those ways this various federal sentences if genres much Lou was medians to autism fictional works down while pulse eight I was trying to do with how I always wanted trend rights and literary fiction with a plot so that will descend they also divided up the capital city ballots to us then we'll happen was the Soviets decided at close the borders a sort of just a very average western city but goes in another way fall from average in the sense was you had to go through enemy territory together I'm based on spine as reason did get some both rounds life I'm the book is also out it's it's exciting but also in place to this we've just recently compact the point in time where the Barrymore's yeah for Ralph and his friends he is group of friends it was it was the reality and I interview lots of avenue that was a war if the Russians decided they wanted to beg to snip off the connection and take the city so was it was sort of stories discreet stories although their characters in each book the popped in the other books so both main characters in the other two books stock in the middle of this little islands documental of communist East Germany News of this lead through all those reasons very old place on the one hand city so let's talk about Ralph he's underwriter when we first meet him at the beginning of the book he's looking back on events absolutely I was it's interesting because it historical fiction alive when is happened as young as in nineteen sixty nine so that's that's the background is this little western exclave engraved Bagel which way round seeds a distant point in time is absolutely exit he's talking to the future without giving the ending away we find out imaginable and I think it's hard now when you read the history of it it seems inevitable in some ways the also pat countries mm-hmm when books who will three books tried to be exactly that we set of books that have a emotional arc and a heart glittery that will gems without leaving ESCO this time will year-old so he's he's also in war of this group of France an and not reunite Jammie which happen prison Australia it was reunited and westbound than became stuck in the middle of and this this group of friends they're all at the point where you know they're in their late teens have basically on the verge of finishing school the things that interested in a very accepted normal didn't think about it very much they would be sold the Woodson bits the city in all time you already where it's and that would collapse wraps and full but at the time it didn't feel and be aware that so really was a massive shock real meaning yes he's eighteen hundred action takes place he's he's just left school he was British school in But only for any reason your friends came and went because it goes people get toasted off the tedious to Cyprus of the places another British the whole of Berlin was in the middle of Egypt so often the wool the house divided up Jimmy into arms east West Germany the and going off to do other things basically at the at the cusp of because I love the way you write that actually let's see ability but at the same time you will very aware of developing your adult south and and feel at very adults armie Mason's inside of Ralph in the book makes this rather Geeky Group of friends who are all at the same passion which is broadly jogger FY in geology and most of the time day to day life it just wasn't something you take those about except for some of these are the weird quirks identity look at goes into present tense we find out the best an exact talking from the has also of historical this lying around and fields drunk and yes the one hand you have this huge freedom this lack of not bad but his group of friends will gem because as lost people and people I talk to when to the British sides if you will in his best friend and and the Girls Patra and Mike I WanNa talk about particularly who is basically Ralph's girlfriend tell us something about there you are going to be a girl usually doesn't definitely the case now you mentioned Rows Group of Friends Stefan very both agree movement the Mike at WHO's in some senses a bit a bit square but also from a sliding poor background enemy territory in the Middle East of East Germany and then in nineteen sixty one before nine six one you can news between the two sides Auburn's and east and westbound British people in less than on the time for the bug essentially golf mabry was it was like the bottom line that was how the world worked and the idea of not being there anymore just seemed completely non was Sissi the might sixty one the east Javan closed Buddha build out by the pool famously ad nineteen eighty nine the Soviet Union girlfriend and they have a romantic sexual relationship a very close relationship explorer relationships Tena Ages Domain Group we're going to talk with the characters the debate but Ralph narrator and his friends is just a fact of life it's always been Hamsa it's a huge amount of time where you really have dodged do you spend a lot of timing countryside's times greely I've been it was pushed from in publishing writing deaths related to Ryan's this fiction and I think in film TV The detail but this clearly a parallel between Ralph and his compartmentalization of his sexuality when the other people in the group the very in love with Ralph's and they haven't really good relationship and I also wanted that that poll of basically like there's a word for teenagers GONNA say not not children but do either the right on the cusp as being clearly separate format relationship now there's obviously as you said there's an espionage story hair which we obviously not gonNA guides too much nine one though but do remember eight and I do remember also when I was young I was a little kid the eastern and any of the man on any of us on it so the book explores the idea of fantasy in terms of Rothman his sexuality Ralph Throughout the book he's also tracked by exoticism of Turkish German of pushes into in offense Bellon went if you some your family who's in the military you do I guess he's nine doubles like the people so he he but also intends all espionage and tens of pretending to be someone wants it also intends national identities of his also this I had believable what happened in nineteen eighty nine Adam what I would fail to understand which is the setting of the book is that the life that a lot of people were living IMBALAN- through the Cold War it types of their relationship between east and the West it's been interesting talking about the last few weeks the won't quick happens is you talk about a book as a gay book or to go back rows agape character one of the inspirations for the book was reading bounce and Brian spies who these eastern as spies asked about those those stories was up when the wool fell has marriages often stayed together and I go refasten by this idea of if you'll pretend beat will fit what he sees his authentic technicals severance growing up in embedded into degree also plays that up it usually attract women but sometimes men would be what if the Easter with gun live life in the west and would often stop dating someone would crossing by someone who's who is going to fall things that that does Tatra Amendment Stephanie's best friend kind of crowds bag hippie you for instance worked in the buyer is the factory they would find out what is best this secretary was into bump into relationship and they'll be really long term relationship then start getting information from what I found the key detail on completely unclear about his sexual giving me book talked with but he's very well he's attracted to man and he's also very love with his Lillian I'm really at all on his man the idea that title is that it relates to or the men in the book and to what extent in the beginning of the books he's a good boyfriend that that is that is that he is not relationship in this group of friends he has a role he really is that person record shop salesman whatever if you're doing that for thirty years to extend all you if that's alive as the really deputy novel the Spring of Casper Maya was have you pretending to be that was really interesting exploring his ideas so Ralph in his relationship with his girlfriend he's he's Eh yeah a- all talk about it is a book about him come to terms with his sexuality but actually much ravs little atoms in the East German spy and you pretending to be you know west German jober fatigue or west German he's gentleman English boat he's both those things depending on the context I'm not Danny today I'm talking to Ben Ferguson and we took it about his latest novel and honest man and then I want to bring in Ralph's parents absolutely I think there is this sense of the listeners Vat Saba adding people remember this hour audio finally uh Ferrara's and so the book is explored or these things and it tends to them acting doesn't give it away too much to save good of a danger that he doesn't see his attraction to other men in all his burgeoning relationship with him as I do actually though the way Ralph separates this both his desire for men his as he sees it isn't real daily night belly ah she's a great character to so mike is this blueprint Patrice's Gen would fence which means like goals when you look back on it when you hold of it you know yeah it was terribly wants but at the time you feel like you're everything and you have already clear sense yes an English mother and German father tell us about that is mother is the daughter so many worked in the British military psychologist into the originally planned to the book was that she will be assigned contrast working for the all through I guess i WanNa talk about what life was a lot of a gay man in Berlin at this particular time in history I mean obviously we know what's been going on and I split between the East and West but also at the same time famously a place associated with certain type of hedonism gas A. She's Jesus Psychotherapist and treats a lot of people from the different occupied until wolf out it was still occupied up until ninety one when the country reunited not meant the it was the only place you can live brought Sheldon Sagana also philosophy gay men a kind of safe haven because westbound was never actually part of West Germany fishing a city in a very mixed Aaron is very big Turkish Mec- also show back so those two communities also ready mix together which is really interesting because they were counter cultural on sense I would come to Berlin and it created the scene hopelessly Ben Zan West German man avoid she said so for another man who want to avoid inches as needed because they were gay or because this but the Ellsworth vines dollond frustrating but then there's also get not giving too much away and your family or relationship who's done bad things in this pretended to be someone who's s fidelity discovered in the book did outside again is is planning with this idea of authenticity and honesty and it Mike Soho in London sense it's marched process that area is is the center of the gay scene but it's also very mixed we can think of the gray one thousand nine hundred seventy nine thousand nine hundred albums and things but what was it like as you know the sensitive thing calls I think added to that and at the same time in the novel neither Ralph Knoll alls you embarrassed raffled see the book is from rows debuted extent he he has a close relationship with them in here in West L. in very prominently but it's also an benches in being even then this sort of idea of what it meant to be a game atmos- still very early gay people around time was like Donald Freddie Mercury elsewhere in the world three to nine thousand nine hundred ninety s but balance in this unique position of being I WanNa talk about all you've mentioned Oz and interiors in in the first part so perhaps let's talk about it wouldn't have talked about liking took so in terms of writing the budget relationship between Ralph an ause pollock from the city way you could live alternative life separate to would see around the strikes and during passing time which is kind of specialty which is why she why she's very successful and then his father is a wax in a false attracted people like at a valid problem on all of those people so on the one hand it was a very it felt like a city the book did they made that scene feel very separates I remember even in the nineties walk out that I was gay a sense of life at this time I mean it was absolutely essential game is at the time of the show Baggins bit of Shabak newhaven what extent we are honest with us the extent which we can initiate nick comes up in Germany allot generations as to what extent you can love someone you can have a nurse so we had to find a way around that was very good at it he had this is Jean citizenship setting yourself apart not giving yourself the the ability to set it at Miller to have those aspects you cannot see died lanes figures like Derek Jarman Oh you were incredible autism but but led a very specific kind of game is the alive that made it more difficult for them to have this relationship how did that sort of impact on the writing of their burgeoning relationship he's an also different at Doug differently again it's I think often those this conversation aw involved in the gay seed away and it was also time gaming nine but I remember that AIDS adverts Defense John Half after no simpler here crisis also stressed Westbound Linda back characters west Belinda some moves to do espionage also love story and the characters happen to be gay and that it grew gay man or bisexual man and I was exploring one way but it wasn't in any way trying to trying to say his Nadler Forbidden Sexuality thoughts it's still a quite conservative in Berlin Zoe it would be something he would root for them to each other and also I feel like it it still is hard to bow on one thousand today what sort of elements of of those three stories still around intense physically yeah I've take king the foulds you know the time when I was feeling like that is that do I have to highly dissolute life so yes so I think Brown from all somehow you know we've had enough does not a tool but I do think there are a million ways to be a so I think that's all those two characters I don't think would have found that was realistic the end of the story so it's an interesting question the sense it may be would have been different if I thought I wanted to rise the book about Gentlemen Gentlemen again is a great general be sake which which means three hud translate which is a kind of represents a very plastics of western the memories that you see the day-to-day basis of writing these novels and they're those things that I right now now or these three books done you finish this trilogy but sort of as you walk around not like what buildings are still there but I mean like what other sort of Mike later in their lives an intensive nine hundred ninety nine I was just hansel yesterday about the agency which is the speed conference center in west of our Muslim countries being anti game in this country is not being and again that's not he's one of the countries in the world I still think about cast and not periods there little knocks of Berlin's colonial past David Willis A story I was the story became quite clear to me and that relationship she says the vote sets in the same block which is where you live now so I mean as you as you walk around ebb that connection to families and the rest of the rest of the World Tawab was willing consequence Obama's characters let's books that the

Ben Ferguson Scott Jim Berlin one hand seventeen year thirty years twenty-fifth
Pelosi holds news conference after Trump makes surprise remarks; House about to vote to end shutdown as Trump vows to veto bill and digs over border wall; U.S. national debt reaches new highs under Trump

Erin Burnett OutFront

47:51 min | 1 year ago

Pelosi holds news conference after Trump makes surprise remarks; House about to vote to end shutdown as Trump vows to veto bill and digs over border wall; U.S. national debt reaches new highs under Trump

"Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Xeni offers thousands of affordable. Eyewear styles starting at just six ninety five. No ridiculous markups. No hassles. Just quality affordable. I wear delivered right to you visits. Any today at Xeni dot com slash CNN. Next. Breaking news. The speaker of the house Nancy Pelosi calls a last minute news conference fighting back against the president on day thirteen of a shutdown that seems to have no end in sight post. Trump's reality show calling us so-called press conference that was just a publicity side. He's trying to take the spotlight back from Pelosi and the national debt at a new dangerous record under a president who has called himself the king of debt, but promised promised. This wouldn't happen to promise broken. Let's go out front. Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett. Breaking news. Newly elected speaker house speaker Nancy Pelosi fighting back in prime time. You were just watching a last minute press conference by Pelosi calling the last minute briefing just hours after retaking her position as speaker vowing to reopen the government, which has now been closed for thirteen days. We are diligent diligent and persistent in trying to open up government as I said today on the floor. We will take ideas good ideas from wherever they come. She's trying to well pushed the whole blame thing. Back onto President Trump. The president today scrambling the White House press corps now his briefing was only a five minute warning. And the president came out to the press briefing room taking the podium poured. The first time since becoming president of the United States all in a propaganda show. Trying to steal the spotlight from Pelosi and pound the table for his wall. I have never had so much support as I have in the last week over my stance for border security for border control. And for frankly, the wall. On and on about the wall, the president even parading border patrol agents. He saw them behind him to echo one of his most prized fearmongering lines. I just want to talk about some of those criminals that board virtually apprehend on a daily basis. We're talking about murderers, rapists, people that commit very serious crimes in this country. They're bringing drugs they bring in crime. They're rapists. Abby fell up is at the White House and abbey. I mean, this is the dual right? The president with the scrambling this propaganda briefing, and then Nancy Pelosi trying to host a primetime briefing to get it back and now Democrats trying to pass this Bill, right and say, okay, look, we're reopening the government. But the White House is now saying they're going to veto it. That's right. Aaron this is truly divided government that we're seeing play out here in a pretty public fashion, the White House and Senate and House Democrats are really nowhere near each other. When it comes to the border wall. And now the White House has officially issued a veto threat. Saying that whatever they pass out of the house tonight. They will reach the president would veto it. Now, it has become pretty easy much easier for President Trump to run against Democrats to rail against Democrats and blame them for the shutdown. Now that Nancy Pelosi has the gavel that's part of what this press conference earlier this afternoon was all about it was about President Trump making Nancy Pelosi once again. In front and center in his argument against whatever is going on on Capitol Hill prior to this point Republicans controlled congress on in both chambers. So tomorrow, they are going to be back here at the White House having yet another meeting the Democrats have now said that they will in fact attend. But the real question remains, what are the dollars incense here? We don't really have any idea right now of what the president is willing to accept in terms of a compromise. There is no indication that proposals are going back and forth. And in fact, President Trump is digging in his heels talking over and over again about his border wall and really trying to win a public relations argument about who's to blame for the shutdown really trying to also gin up his base when he talks about getting more and more support for himself over the last several days, that's because his supporters Republicans in congress and Republicans perhaps throughout the country. Do in fact support him in this endeavor. The question is does the rest of the. Country. And I think the polling that we've seen in recent months has shown that a majority of Americans do not support a border wall. But President Trump is I in twenty twenty eyeing his support from his base and really digging in on this front air. All right. Thank you very much, Abby. I wonder how many of his supporters realized that the money he's asking for this five point six billion dollars doesn't even sound. Even a drop in the bucket from what his own administration says an actual wall would cost now though, Ben Ferguson joins me radio host of the Ben Ferguson show. CNN political commentator Simone Sanders is with us. Former national press secretary for Bernie Sanders and political commentator for us here. And Mark Preston. Our senior political analyst me Mark literally what we're seeing here today. You know, Nancy Pelosi is all eyeballs are on her, right? Getting getting sworn in again as speaker of the house. And so that's not something the president wanted right as he's trying to win this battle over the the wall and the government shutdown. So he has this five minute warning and comes out to the podium parades is border agents. Now, she's dueling back. This is really a dog and pony show. It absolutely is looking we're talking about optics at this point. And if we saw what happened and you take what happened in the White House briefing room today. Donald Trump's running himself by supporters union leaders who endorsed him for president. Let's be very clear about who was running him. Now, those are two organizations they represent somewhere between twenty twenty. Twenty-five thousand either border agents or ice agents, which has customs and immigration. The thing is though couple years ago, Donald Trump which had received their endorsement went out and said that he had received the unanimous endorsement of all the agents of ice and all the agents of customs and border, and guess what? That is absolutely not true. They did get it from the leadership, but not everybody. So even though we saw the optics of that White House briefing today or news conference, whoever you want to describe it campaign event, what that is is a small amount of those agents who would actually support and that being leadership President Trump, and then the optics Nancy Pelosi holding a news conference in the hallways of congress. Not some big glamorous press conference where she's going to talk about things and the hallways of congress, very sullen very dark trying to get things done again, if not planned it was a very smart way for Nancy to come out and do her first news call right selling dark sort of capture them the mode. I mean, the president doesn't like to not be in the spot. Light. But it doesn't seem to look like it's coming from position of strength. When the first time you go to the podium is on a day like today with no warning. Right. Clearly hadn't planned scrambles scramble is not how you see it. No. I don't I don't see it that way. At all. I see the president nights America that looks at what Nancy Pelosi has a say as she's being sworn in listening to what Democrats or say today looking at the issues of them, basically making it clear that Democrats agenda is to come after him to destroy him and anyone around him in subpoena them and even pizzas president. He said. All right. I've got some say the American people while the government's day twelve is shutdown. I'm going to walk out to my podium, and I'm going to tell the American people what this is all about and that I'm gonna stick by the border wall. And this is how this is going to work. And if Nancy Pelosi doesn't want to work with us, then so be it. But this there was a huge opportunity for the president to remind the American people that he's been in Washington, the entire time on anti Pelosi other Democrats are gone and the first thing they come to Washington do is to come. After him and anyone connected with him and say the words impeachment go after day one they're not concerned about the government being shut down political. Vanhanen here with something to reopen the government which he says he's going to veto it, which is a non starter. It's a meaningless. It's a meaningless gesture when you know that you have to have some Republicans will agree to it has green by. Veto the bipartisan. Here's the facts. Let me let me get you the founding in there. Sag? Meaning that are fifty seven percent of Americans do not support a government shutdown over the border wall. And the facts are also that again, fifty seven hundred fifty seven percent of Americans don't even support building a concrete border law game of thrones style wall along the border with Mexico. The facts are that Donald Trump was game of thrones. He he keeps playing with that post being. I understand. Killary referring to also support that the president said that he will shut down the government over not getting funding for his wall, and that border security, which Democrats are all all but all but more than happy to fund and fund. These agents said he would shut down the government over his border. That's what this is about in Ferguson. So let's not be interesting honest when we're talking about what Mark let me go. To talk about the significance of what Trump did today, though of all the moments that he's had he chooses today to go to his press briefing room for the first time. Sure, he's talking about the wall. But but what people should have heard is. It seems like he's he's he should be afraid of what the Democrats are about to do. Right. Ben, you say it's BS that they're going to do it. But that is what they're gonna do right investigation after vaccination subpoena after subpoena me, Mark Preston. That's what he's looking at. Now. You're right. So so there's a couple of things one is. And I think our colleagues just only really summed it up earlier today. This is the second half about entire new game. And Donald Trump doesn't necessarily know what's going to hit him. And I don't say that with any glee. I don't see that with any with any bit of anything except reality. Democrats now have the ability to go after President Trump in a way that we hadn't seen congress do. So because he was as we'd expect to in many ways, a the same political party to do. But yes, he is very much in trouble in the fact forget. About impeachment. Let's just take the idea of impeachment off the table because you're not gonna see Nancy Pelosi allow that to move forward. You're going to see Elijah Cummings allow that to to move. Right. I know, but wait a second unless unless did that report comes out into. So I think he needs to be more concerned about these investigations by these oversight committees. We just say one thing about the government shutdown because it is ludicrous to think that the government shutdown. What we're doing is. We're delaying paying federal workers and not letting him go to work. That's exactly what's happening. They're going to get paid the should get paid. But they're not going to go to work this week. And by the way, they want to go to work this week, the idea that we call this a government shutdown is ridiculous. What it is is just this fight between Democrats and Republicans to try to get to some consensus. And the fact of the matter is that the only reason that the government is possibly shutdown. We're talking about the State Department the department of homeland security, which is ironic because he's talking about these about securing the border the department of agriculture the the department of Justice. The only reason these entities are practically shut down, and they are quote, unquote, non essential workers who work at home and not getting paid and contract workers mind, you will not get paid well guardless when the governor. Opens back up is because Donald Trump threw a temper tantrum over his border wall. He told us Mexico will pay for the wall. So I am I really not interested in the. And making and making this both side, Mark. But this is not both sides, Donald Trump's low racist wall. And now he's asking for it. I'm going to quote, Aaron earlier we're talking about five point six billion, which is not all the money that we actually need. Don't don't lecture me or the or anybody else about trying to come together. When you guys are not allowing five point six billion dollars to use for border security, in a way, the Nazi now. Right. Because you guys don't care if these government workers are not having being able to go to work you care about meeting. Donald Trump's you don't hear onboard secured you care to get out of truth. Not this everyone it is. It is not fair to to insinuate that both hauling America over five point six billion. Democrats do care me them crafts do care. That's why they're going to put the Republican appropriations Bill that was you guys win, Donald bows. Say Nancy Pelosi continues to in good faith when the president will respond to her will talk. They're gonna go. Donald Trump is of. I just want to quote, bring Santo I'm here. She's the game. Band. Allude yesterday said that the president is not moved, by empathy. The president I was watching with mom too is a heard Malibu ears. He said the president really doesn't necessarily care about these government workers. The government workers are not going to move the president. He wants his wall bad as an ally of the president Rick Sam tournaments. Shutdown chance to respond that nobody wants. Yeah. Let's be clear the president the the president cares about the issue of national security cares about the police officer who was killed by the legal emigrant in California the day after Christmas. He's cared about this issue before he became president. It's what made him become president and Democrats are holding this country hostage over a measly five billion dollars. Because all you really care about is not these government workers stop lying to them. You care about beating Donald Trump. And if you have to keep the government shutdown to beat Donald Trump that is the entire agenda that the Democrats came out today. County after you were coming after Trump, and they're gonna go at impeach him. Here's question billion like he's going to get a wall and keep rapists out. Right. That that's what the border patrol said today that he said when he was running for office. He's gonna get a wall for this shutdown. Do you think is basis any idea that they're not gonna get all the shutdown even if he got every dollar, yes? For less than twenty percents. His own administration says they would need to build a wall. So it's incredibly intellectually dishonest for him to say that he's doing. You think he's gonna get his wall? I think the president understands it asking for five plus billion is a realistic compromise number to get border security going in the right direction. And I think the president is very clear he wants the wall built he also has a realist here. He knows he can't get the total sum because again, Democrats will never allow that to happen. He knows how the votes work to get even partial funding done. So when they say that the presence being stubborn. He's literally only asking for five billion dollars to let everybody go back to work and Democrats say, no, we hate you so much, and we don't hear about more security. We're gonna screw you one point here. I wanna make Mark Preston at one point to what Ben just said Democrats were willing to do two and a half billion. Okay. Which Ben maybe isn't Ali why they were willing to to an apple Appalachian Pence came and told them they were willing to do the president was willing to do to an app billion. And then Mark the president came out and back stabbed as those vice president said, he wouldn't even do that. That's the difficulty of because construction mad at him, ma'am. Hold on a second. But, but that is the difficulty of working in the Trump administration that you go out with orders direction to try to get something done, and that could change on one thing, we should note these are appropriations bills that from last year, they should been passed back on October thirty first, right? The new year or rather on September thirtieth. Do you start first Republican majorities in the house and Senate, obviously, they need a democratic support? We're not able to get this done. So I just don't know how they're going to get done. Now, why Donald Trump thinks it's gonna happen now? All right. I wanna know the Democrats Dave Donald Trump money for his quote unquote wall, including an this an abortive security early last year, and he's still can't tell us what happened to that money for why should Democrats kowtow to temper tantrum hesitant that doesn't even though he wants. All right. Thank you all very much. And by the way, I should point out. None of this money that we even have because President Trump has now increased the national debt to an all time record. And we're going to talk about that, very unfortunate and bad headline that just happened today and next the new assistant house speaker, Ben Ray, Lou. On the vote that they're about to Cass to reopen. The government literally about to go into those votes now and Nancy Pelosi today on this issue of indicting. She says it could be possible to indict President Trump. She right. Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Our friends at Zanny optical offer, a huge variety of high quality stylish frames and state of the art optics starting at just six ninety five. You can get multiple frames with this great pricing for less than one pair. Elsewhere start building your eyewear wardrobe from the comfort of your own home at Zanny dot com. With the latest trends in eyewear available in hundreds of frame styles and materials there isn't a better way to change it up for every season. Plus any offers prescription sunglasses that incredible prices. Visit Xeni today at Xeni dot com slash CNN. That's Z E N N, I dot com slash CNN. Breaking news. The new house speaker Nancy Pelosi making it very clear where her party sands tonight as the government shutdown is entering its third week. Doing a wall. Does he have any doubt that we're not doing a wall? So that's. Got it front. Now. The newly-installed assistant house speaker democratic congressman Ben Ray Luhan, and I appreciate your time. Congressman alright. So when she says, not getting a wall, no wall, no wall. You guys are now down to zero dollars. Right. No compromise on it. Well, Aaron look I've never supported the president's wall. I've not supported putting one penny towards that. But here we are in the midst of a shutdown that President Trump of to credit for actually said over twenty five times that he wanted to shut the government down. And he now he did it. There's no reason that we can't open up the rest of government and have a continue resolution for homeland security, but we continue to negotiate. But if you're asking me, if I support a penny for the wall, I don't, but but you're but you're willing to negotiate it. I mean, I guess I guess the question I have when you when you have the speaker saying no wall, no all, you know, using the hand gestures here not going to happen. And we've got a shutdown entering its third. Week in my right in saying this shutdown is now, indefinite we're not anywhere close. There's no reason that this shutdown could not end tomorrow. Once we in the house pass these pieces of legislation today. A continuing resolution to keep the department of homeland security open through February fifth, and then six other appropriation bills to open up the rest of the government that by the way, all passed the Senate appropriations committee overwhelmingly the president could sign them today. So that we can continue moving forward and doing it in a way that it's not hampering the economy. It's not hurting eight hundred thousand workers that are not getting paid including about five thousand in my home state of New Mexico. Of course, the issue is there's no border wall money in it. The president is going to be to it. It's already made that clear is this just politics this entire vote. You're doing right now because you know, that what you're passing is not going to become he's not he's going to be till it Aaron I don't believe that this is politics because the Bill. That Mitch McConnell put on the Senate floor before the end of the year was to keep the government open. And I can't imagine that Mitch McConnell the Republican leader in the US Senate would have done that. If the president went to signed off, what happened is the president decided to turn on Fox News and start listening to Sean Hannity and changed his mind. We should open the government up it can happen immediately. And that's continue these negotiations to do this in a responsible way, not in the reckless fashion that it's plain out. So so congressman the president today when he did that unprecedented going to the podium and speaking spoke about why he wants a wall, right? Not just border security a wall or a barrier. He said, whatever you wanna call it. But he wants his wall here. He is. Having a drone fly overhead. And I think nobody knows much more about technology, this type of technology, certainly than I do having drones and various other former of sensors they're all fine. But they're not going to stop the problems that this country has. Says nobody knows more about drone technology than he does. Do you think that is true? I absolutely do not believe that's true. Just this last week President Trump proclaimed that he knows more than the generals within the department offense in the armed services. It's untrue. Look, I was down antelope wells, just after we lost young Jacqueline the seven year old who was the first child that we learned about who lost her life. And then now young Philippa what I was down in antelope wells at one of the port of entries. They didn't even have access to water the water was contaminated. It was not drinkable. They could not cook with it. They could not bait with it and not just for those that are seeking asylum or for the agents themselves, the president should understand the infrastructure investments that are needed at the port and not just on the southern border with Mexico. The ports in Canada and the water ports as well. That's where these dollars should be going as opposed to this reckless ridiculous wall that the president continues to advocate for I don't know if he'd just. Ben, ferguson. But you know, he was echoing what many think who support Trump right, which is that now that you Democrats have the power you are going to use it to try to oust the president from office prematurely, congressman Adam Smith, who's taking over the House Armed Services committee talked about impeachment today. And here's what he said. It's not too soon to be talking about. We'll have to decide whether or not it's the correct course of action, but certainly we should be discussing it. Asking those questions and figuring out what the best course of action is he says it's not too soon to be talking about impeachment. Do you agree? I personally believe that we need to ensure that the special counsel Mr. Mueller is able to conduct his investigation is able to complete his work, and I would hope Mr. Ferguson would agree that he should be able to conduct his investigation unimpeded and present the facts, not just to the congress, but Merican people and only then we'll find out where those facts leads. So that's my position on this. And I fully support making sure that the special counsel can conclude his investigation present his facts. And then we'll have a conversation and see where those facts lead us on. I appreciate your time. Thanks so much. Thanks for having the air. All right, next, the United States debt two trillion dollars higher tonight. Then when president Donald J Trump took office what happened to his promise? We'd have to start paying down debt. We have a lot of debt. Limit start paying down debt. Plus can Robert Muller? Indict Trump Wylie's president Nancy Pelosi today opening the door to that being possible. But if she right. Remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash CNN. New tonight stocks plunge again, the Dow down six hundred sixty points today, this as we learned the United States debt, hit a record high stocks down debt up to pretty toxic combination and one that the president today when he went to that podium for the first time chose to completely ignore. The economy is bringing people in because we're doing so well with the economy. Well, here's what we learned today. The United States debt stands at twenty one point nine seven trillion dollars. Yes. That his trillion that is nearly two trillion dollars higher then when President Trump took office, and that is a promise broken. You look at our debt nine thousand nine trillion dollars going up to twenty one trillion dollars in a very short fashion. So we're going to we're going to straighten things out we're going to straighten him out correctly. We're going to start paying down debt. We have a lot of debt. We're going to start paying down debt going to pay down debt. Does anybody not wanted? Please raise your head. Okay. Just to belabor the point. He has done the opposite. Right. Running up the tab and not paying down the bills. And frankly, this is one campaign promise that no one should be surprised that Trump has broken so far because here is Trump. Niamh the king of debt. I do loved it. I loved it. I love playing with it. I'm the king of debt. I'm great with dead. Nobody knows that better than me. I've made a fortune by using debt. Then if things don't work out or renegotiate the debt. I mean, that's a smart thing. Not a stupid thing. I'm sorry. Right. Okay. So Stephen Moore joins me now and former White House advisor and author of Trump and I'm IX and keep boykin democratic strategist and former Clinton White House aide. Steve I laughed because those sound bites are so absurd and no one can say it better than Trump. But the bottom line is Steve that this is a president who does love debt, and he has not kept this promise so far. Well, you know, if you look at the preceding president this is a president who. Talked about how horrible the national debt was when he was a Senator. No. I mean, just make this point. Nationally, Doug governs town. They're all terrible. But this one went out and said again, and again that she was going to sort of Barack Obama is your answer to why Trump broke his promise Barack Obama who look the point. I'm making his every president going back to Lyndon Johnson has promised to balance the budget. We've only balanced budget four times in the last six years. So you could make that criticism of virtually every president that we've had since then including Barack Obama who you're right. The debt has gone up by two billion dollars in a little less than two trillion dollars and Trump's first two years under Barack Obama went up by three trillion dollars the first two years. So the. Financial crisis since the great weight of the roof under under Obama at a time when we already had to expect. No, no. Show. You see this? This is this is what happened to the dive under under how von? Way up Steven what what would you do a stabilizing that by growing economy? Steve, okay. You said every presence is Lyndon Johnson has a debt. Go up the repeatedly goes up. We know that Lyndon Johnson, actually, balanced the budget something Bill Clinton did he balance the budget when Barack Obama was in office. He cut the federal deficit for one point. Listen, listen, listen closely. I listen to you. He cut the federal deficit within one point four trillion dollars in two thousand nine to five hundred eighty five billion dollars when he left he cut it by more than half. Yes. The deficit rises even as the deficit goes down. And that's important. You should understand is an economist economic person. We also know that you can't cut taxes and expect that revenue to be magically made up which is what Donald Trump did and December twenty seventeen with the Republican congress. They pass it one and a half trillion dollar tax cut it blew a hole in the deficit. We have higher deficits a result of that. He's also increasing military spending. And. And on top of that. He's proposing space forces in walls, and all sorts of other spending that he doesn't have any idea. How is going to pay for the guy is not serious about cutting the debt he net was and. At least admit that first of all the data's sheriff GDP has stabilized under under Trump. That's the important measure, what is our debt relative to the size. Stabilize it. Go to ninety six percent of GDP from aren't seventy eight percent stabilizing minimum. The Deva's GDP has stabilized under Trump in the first two years, whereas that sesame truth. Bruce Lee is it's basically stayed level. When you look at the publicly traded data's assure of GDP now, the second point I would make is if you look at the tax cut, you're acting as if the tax cut contributed the deficit that in two thousand eighteen Aaron the United States government collected more tax revenues than any other year in history with the tax cut. So how in the world can revenue speed? The problem the practice is you know, key is because we're spending too much money. And I'm willing to just Donald Trump in the congress on this. They're spending way too much money. The problem is we're not collecting revenue. We did we dot com. We're not collecting we're not we're not going to have. We had a smaller percentage of corporate revenue last year in two thousand eighteen then in any year. That's. Tax cuts. We had we had corporate tax cuts and tax for the wealthy. Now. One thing I just want to make clear here, though, is that you know, obviously, the debt is a problem. But I think what the reason why we created the deficits and the debt that they're pelicans. There are no longer caring about suddenly is because they want to use an excuse to cut social security as an excuse to cut Medicare Hughes to target entitlements. Right. Which is. But can I can I just for one second? We have the sound bite again where the president promised that. He was gonna pay down the debt we have that going cue that one up when I wanna play against. He was the one she hears. This a promise everyone wants to keep his promise. Here is. You look at our debt. Nineteen trillion dollars going up to twenty one trillion dollars in a very short fashion. So we're going to we're going to straighten things out we're gonna straighten him out correctly. We're going to start paying down debt. We have a lot of debt. We're going to start paying down debt going to pay down debt. Does anybody not wanted? Please raise your head. Steve does he have any intent ever paying down that? I'd love to see the this happened. I'd love to see the economy continue to grow. We continue to grow three to four percent per year. We're going to see this debt burden fall. This is what Larry Kudlow, and I told Donald Trump from the first meeting as advocate. The economy and bring the debt down. That's gonna happen. It hasn't happened. You're preaching trickled down economics against the same economic state has failed repeatedly. We when we we. I was in the Clinton. Let me just say I was at the Clinton ministration we actually raise taxes raise the top marginal tax rate to thirty nine point six percent. Guess what we paid we paid gone the deficit, and we created a surplus and contrast when Bush came in office in two thousand one two thousand three and and cut taxes, we created more deficits, so don't preach trickle-down economics philosophies about how. It does the king of the national debt is Bracco king. Donald. On dollars under. Knows nor nobody knows more about that than Donald Trump, Donald Trump. That's what he said. Here's the thing. The economy grew at three percent this year for the first time and that never happened. Once key. Nobody. No, don't that work the down main cue that drones and other things. Thank you all very much. Nancy Pelosi on whether President Trump could be indicted. That that is an open discussion. I think that is an open discussion in terms of the law and the new women in congress sworn in today making history, including the one you see their first Molly American reflecting on that by returning to the same airport with her father that they arrived into this country from twenty three years ago. Good day sweep J skeets here. From the starters and basketball is back. Join me tasks Lee and Trey at six eastern, every weeknight on NBA TV, as we break down everything that matters to NBA fans from trade. Rumors to Twitter beefs and don't forget to check out our podcast the drop now dropping twice a week every Tuesday and Friday on apple podcasts. Spotify an NBA dot com slash the starters until then the race today. People. Tonight an indictment for Trump. A new house speaker Nancy Pelosi starting out with a bang saying, it's a quote open discussion today. Everything indicates that the president can be indicted after he is no longer president of the United about a sitting well sitting president when he's no longer president of the United States, a president who is in office, Robert Muller comeback and say, I am seeking. And I think that that is an open discussion. I think that is an open discussion in terms of the law. I'll front now for a White House ethics czar for President Obama norm Eisen, David Rifkin who served in the Justice department and White House counsel's office in the Reagan, and George H W Bush administration's also former deputy director for the Justice Department's office of legal policy normal me start with you. You are convinced that President Trump can be indicted. Why? Well, Aaron I think Nancy Pelosi was right? It's an open question. I do believe the correct answer to that question is that a president can be indicted. There's nothing in the constitution that says, the president cannot be and there's nothing in the policy behind the constitution. And after all the whole idea of America is we didn't want King, George. We don't want. A monarch we want a system in which everybody is subject to the law. If the president breaks the law he should be prosecuted. Now, there is a DOJ opinion to the contrary, I think that opinion got the law. Aw wrong. David snuffing open about it. It's not just one opinion. DOJ has revisited this question free times twice in nineteen seventy three and once again in two thousand it concluded and by the way during spectrum norm. It's a truism to say that nobody's above the law etcetera etcetera. The question always is how does the law applied to given person the president occupies a knee constitutional perch, unlike multi-member bodies, like congress, and the judiciary president is not just ahead of executive. He is the executive what all see on free occasion as supreme court having embraced the same analytical methodology as concluded that you cannot allow monarch the president's not forgive me. And that's relevant. He is the head of unitary executive to preserve a constitutional fabric, the constitutional architect, you cannot disease double the president. And I think every. Body would agree. Just like his old seed did. But let me mention the spring court in one second that if Hugh subject the president of the criminal indictment of criminal prosecution that would debilitate his ability to be vigorous executive and perform the functions that only he can before that's not true members of congress. That's not true judges because why they can be done Jack. If the president, you know, he wants famously said I could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue, and we're not even talking about Russian conspiracy. I could shoot someone in Fifth Avenue you're saying if he did that if he murdered somebody he still above the law. Still can't he is not above alike and not be indicted for murder, I can tell you Aaron there's only one constitutionally proper way to deal with an aber and president. And that's what the framers intended aside from elections in between elections, you got the impeachment process, which features paramount constitutional virtue. Politico count ability hold on crack if congress were to proceed with impeachment that American people would not support they pay the political price as I frankly being Republicans paid for impeachment. Clinton. In here that we don't norm. We you know, you hear your David even even in murder. He would put it to the political process of impeachment. Not indict president someone for murder that that the murderer example explains why this is so wrong. Erin those opinions. I tangle with that office all the time when I was in the White House because they're too protective of the president. I it's like Rudy Giuliani Singh. President can't be indicted to courts have never decided it, and I must disagree with David because his arguments have been tried and rejected twice by the supreme court. And I think they would do the same on the. David. Let me finish a similar argument was launched in United States v. Nixon to prevent the president from being subject to subpoena it failed. It was tried in Clinton v Jones it failed the constitutional trajectory points to the president being subject to the same laws as the rest of north that is the idea of America, David, please. This is when Rick, you know, perfect forgive me, you know, perfectly. Well, but in two thousand oh, she looked at the free supreme court cases, the very one you mentioned, both Paula Jones case and Nixon case and concluded that the supreme court was using the exactly the same eligible paradigm Ovid supreme court setting night states versus Nixon, but the particularly position the present subpoenaing certain documents against the generalize assertion of executive privilege and not sufficiently weighty it intimated. There's more particularize assertion of privilege, particularly when nationalist Kuti variety would have rule. Differently. In Paula Jones. The only reason to court went forward it said it was a smoke case. It was not a big deal. And it said if it was otherwise the case can be state. So look, you know, perfectly. Well, since he read was opinions that OC drew a lot of comfort from the fact that infre- leading supreme court cases United States versus Nixon, the Gerald verses Nixon and Clinton versus Paula Jones. The supreme court validated. The very balancing approach starting from the proposition. You cannot incapacitate the president not by destroying this country. Norm before we before we go I want to ask because you bring up Giuliani. He says Muller's team is admitted to him that they can't indict he said all they can do is write a report they can't indict they acknowledged that to us. Do you think Muller actually said that to Rudy Giuliani? No, Erin, I suspect that there is a lot of spin in that. Now, I will say in fairness, I a Bob Muller may feel that he is confined by that. Oh, the I think the wrong, oh, we'll see opinion and Aaron it's not just me saying that conservative legal scholars disagree with David like, Ken Starr himself who said a president can be indicted. And so, but Muller has a variety of ways of dealing with that I think he could ask for example. I want to indict the president. But then stay proceedings, even if he could say, oh L, see his wrong. Just like I'm saying contrary to David the constitution says in no place that a president cannot be indicted. And there's the twenty David there's the twenty fifth amendment which has a mechanism for dealing with a president who has to deal with an indictment. Right. Thank you. Both very much much more to discuss on this. I hope that both of you back to. Do that next. We travel with two of the women who are new to congress today. Their first day sworn in there. What is your hope when you land in DC playing nice isn't really something that's going to like in my vocabulary. I've already Giuliani responds to genie. Most after her story on out front about witches upset with Trump's use of the word witch hunt. Jeanie fights back. By going worker. January twenty eighth. Don't miss TNT's new limited series. I am the night and fifty old storing Chris pine and skirl does all about it. Inspired by a true story of one girl at the heart of Hollywood's most notorious murder or blow this thing wide open this girl. She's the key. The new limited series. I am the night. January twenty eighth at nine on TNT. Tonight. It's her house Nancy Pelosi taking the reins as speaker of the house paying tribute to the historic class of new lawmakers. When I knew members take the oath. Our congress will be refreshed, and our democracy will be strengthened by their optimism idealism and patriotism of this transformative freshman class. It is transformative. This is Theresa David and Deb Haaland biting back tears on the house floor embracing each other. They are the first to native American women elected to congress, and he'll Hon. Omar the first Somali Americans sworn into congress there. She is yesterday Omar returned to the same Washington DC airport with her father that they arrived at twenty three years ago when they first came to the United States from a refugee camp in Kenya. Kyung law is out front with two more women who are part of this history making class. A predawn flight for Katie hill from Los Angeles to Washington DC journey that's turning this citizen into a congresswoman. What is your hope when you land in DC playing nice isn't really something that's been like in my vocabulary. I just do what I think is right. We are regular middle class people were young or look like it speak like the people that were there to represent. I just think that that's different from what it's been like the one hundred sixteenth, congress is different and historic younger more racially diverse and more female, a record setting one hundred twenty seven women elected among them, thirty one year old hill, Katie hill. She ran as an unknown first time candidate and defeated Republican male incumbent flipping her California district in true millennial form Hill's been sharing her, right? On social media since her victory. Hey, everybody last day of first week of training here in Oregon teach in here in DC from meeting fellow new members to being selected for the house majority leadership and adjusting to find dining while Flying Cross country. Does that all mean, you'll govern differently will government beat different now because of people like you, I believe so and I believe that we're big enough class. We dropped the average age of congress by ten years more than ten years more women than ever. So the the face of congresses teaching it literally is far far more diverse than it ever has been hill who had never lived outside of California or even traveled with so many bags is now sharing an apartment with fellow democratic congresswoman worn under would've, Illinois. She also unseeded a man a four term Republican incumbent becoming the youngest black woman. Ever elected to congress? Neither of you guys. Look like, the traditional members of congress, isn't that something? Together. They're the third and fourth youngest women members of congress. What does all this mean for governing moving forward having women like Hugh in congress? My thing is gonna be hard. We don't walk in and everything changes. I locked the door was definitely a well. This doesn't feel like me. My office was much staffs apartment. This sort of shady part of town with like look for cans all over the place. This is definitely different inauguration morning. What are the capital in what? A crush of cameras welcomed her from congresswoman elect to dropping the elect I guess if it's good if feels like we can finally get to work hills cross country journey ending today marking the beginning of her new role as a congresswoman. So historic day here at the US capitol. Those gains being made though only on the democratic side the number of women who are GOP representatives that actually dropped. There's only one incoming Republican freshmen member Aaron, and it does not appear that that is going to turn around anytime soon the money the organization the energy is almost exclusively among democratic women. Aaron all right. Thank you very much a fascinating story. And we keep hearing about the year of the woman and Kyung tunnels incredible. Reporting out, actually, see them and watch them coming in. It is pretty incredible to seep and for more on Katie hill. Who you just saw there with Cheung CNN tonight. We'll have her as a guest with Don tonight and next Jeannie Moos gets the last laugh after Rudy Giuliani's late night strange rant about Jeannie story on which is. Tonight, a sequel to a story Jeannie brought to you last week. We Juliani explains to witches that they shouldn't be offended by Trump's use of the term which hunt. Here's genie. This is a witch story that continues to cast it's spell the other day. We told you about self proclaimed, which is peeved at President Trump for always saying, you know, I call it a witch hunt. This is a witch hunt. Like nobody's ever seen. We interviewed a couple of witches. It does demonstrate his ignorance really disgraceful and thought we were done now. A witch. After all are toiling over the subject, double double toil and trouble. The president's son took the trouble to re tweet. Our story dismissively. The derangement is real folks, hashtag, Trump derangement syndrome. Maybe Don, jR, was unaware that. Fox News had done at least two segments on the same story now upsetting actual which is some real life, which is angry at him talk about hocus pocus, Fox News. Even aired part of my piece, which is tend to side with liberals CNN and FOX, but which in bemused by the subject to me now our Goto which the coda brought Xiali next Rudy Giuliani jumped onto the broom stick with this seemingly Ernest tweet. There is no reason for the witches to be offended because witch-hunt derives from for example, the Salem witch hunts where people were execute. Fid unjustly, the president's lawyer tweeting about which is raised eyebrows. Rudy, sir. Just stop even Kellyanne Conway's husband, George took a swipe remember this is the best lawyer whom Donald Trump could persuade to represent him Phya, burn and colder bubble, but this cauldron is bubbled enough since the Daily Beast. I featured the story last month. I'm to break the spell. Kill the story. The we're good witches, babe. Keeney MOS CNN calls. In New York. One of Rudy's best. Thanks for joining us. A C three sixty starts now. Hey, Sekou, humid here from the hang time podcast. Join me, and my main man John Shuman every week as we break down, the latest, NBA, news and storylines with. Yes. From around the league, be sure to subscribe to NBA hang time on apple podcasts. Spotify an NBA dot com slash podcast for new episodes every Monday and Thursday this season.

President Trump president Nancy Pelosi congress Aaron United States Democrats CNN Bill Clinton Dave Donald Trump White House Trump America Mark Preston Ben Ferguson Senate congressman Ben Ray Luhan government
125 - The Black Death

Timesuck with Dan Cummins

2:00:57 hr | 1 year ago

125 - The Black Death

"The black death began in spring of three forty six CE near the Caspian Sea by three forty eight. It was ravaging all of Europe estimates regarding how many people die from this massive apocalyptic outbreak of the play between thirty and forty six and thirteen fifty two when the overwhelming majority of the deaths occurred vary, wildly the most accepted conservative death-toll seems to be around twenty five million people other sources claim that around seventy five million people died in western Europe alone in just over five years or the outbreak killed roughly a third of the entire world's population. Dropping it from an estimated four hundred and fifty million down to around three hundred fifty million or they within two years of the disease making it to Europe, and it already wiped out thirty to sixty percent of the continent's population. Regards, the true body count, which will never conclusively no due to lack of historical accounts. A lot of people couldn't rewrite in the mid fourteenth century those who could were. More worried about staying alive than they were about chronically, the constant death. We know for sure that the black death was and still is the world's most disastrous disease outbreak. It's known as the greatest catastrophe ever having taken more lives than any other natural disaster or disease pandemic Henry night in the abbey of the Catholic church of Saint Mary of the meadows and LeicesteR England wrote about the devastation. He saw firsthand and thirteen forty eight. Here's a few excerpts of what he witnessed. The died in less than the small parish of sT, Leonard Maltin three hundred and eighty percents in the parish of Holy Cross four hundred in the parish of Saint Margaret's LeicesteR seven hundred and so in every parish, a great multitude. The pope granted full remission of sins Twenty-one receiving absolution when endanger of death and granted that this power should last until Easter next following. And that everyone might choose whatever confess that he pleased in the same year. There was a great Marin of sheep everywhere in kingdom. So that in one place in a single passion more than five thousand sheep died, and they putrefied that neither the bird. No beast would touch them. Everything was low in price because of the fear of death full very few people took any K of riches of property of any kind the Scots hearing of the dreadful plague amongst the English suspected that. It had come about through the vengeance of God. And according to common report, they were accustomed to swear be the foul death of England believing that the wrath of God befallen the English the assembled in Selcuk forest with the Intel. Of invading the kingdom when the fast mortality overtook them in a short time about five thousand perished as the rest of strong on the feeble will preparing to return to their own country. They will follow attacked by the English who slew countless numbers of them after the pastula. It's many building. Great and small fell into ruins in every city borough and village for lack of inhabitants, likewise, many villages and hamlets became desolate. Not a house being left in them all having died who dwelt there, and it was probable that. Many such villages would never be inhabited death so much death, and the mayhem that follows the anarchy that follows so much death the breakdown of society the emergence of bouts of lawlessness. The literal stench of decay blanketed the air of Europe during the black death the plague wiped out up to ninety percent of the inhabitants of some villages ninety percent actually in a few even higher than that. And it did so quickly. And none of these poor bastards had a clue what was killing them, which is added to the whole. Or they had no idea how to stop it in many areas with local leaders dead and scared villagers looking for someone to blame for the madness that was destroying everything around them persecutions began to break out scared. Six suffering people tend to want someone to blame entire communities of Jewish Romani and other various ethnicities, but modestly mostly Jewish were murdered religious fanaticism was running rampant desperate doctors devise new ways to torture parents and futile attempts to stop the chaos. We dive deep into the dark ages today in mental man, how dark these ages were as we tackled bluebonnets plague in a riddled with rats, fleas and disease. Pandemic medieval edition of time suck. Happy Monday had happy Monday. Oh time. Suckers hail Nimrod hail that strange space sasquatch Chuba Kabre hybrid ride nets sweet black unicorn throughout the universe. Hate willful ignorance wherever he sees it Hailu Safina goddess of mischief and mayhem that sexy. Vixen who who maybe has got us of love as well praise bojangles. Could boy good Poipu tangles? Welcome or welcome back to the culture curious where it's okay can weird have some fun while learning something new even if that something is is real real real dark recorded and suck dungeon CD. Today. We got Joe motherfucking pays the Reverend Dr. He's here Queen of the suck Lindsey. She's here love and all things kortelainen right now. I have a great local Barbara here in Chorley Michael maverick maverick air down in the old elks building fifth and lakeside inside the CD a collective area near CD coffee or else like to grab Kito bomb from time to time. So if you need if you're doing. Haircut round kortelainen. He's a good guy. Go to just good like, you know, like family business. He he started get some new sweet Inc. If you want from Caleb called a wild. That's what I just did. I might get more stuff done on the arm. It's like talking to him cool dude called the wildest near Cosco off government found a cool new. Japanese restaurants shows throw some Hawaiian dishes on the menu Rocco's next to Starbucks by the movie theater, Riverstone complex, cool players. Try to cram so much in cool places who people slowdown Cowan's Braith, folks. Love to pass it info long time suck is brought to you again today by broand podcasts. I the bro hymn podcast a couple times suckers couple space. Let's run in this show. So that's cool Brahms's show about how it's okay to be a dude. But how about how all dudes should be better? Dudes each week. I'm Brown Joe. And Ben pick a topic. They think dudes could use a little help with and based on what I've heard so far the Infos fantastic. And. For ladies. Also, it's for everyone. How to enjoy art how to talk to women how to build wealth. These are the topics so far they have been excellently done new top account today. Solid. Vice from to do good dudes. Here's a recent. I tuned review tried out, bro. Hymn suggestion of the master sucker. So glad I did not a dude. But I am the cool mom of a thirteen and fifteen year old or of thirteen and fifteen year old Bros. They love it. And I'm taking away so many good nuggets. Thank you for what you were doing keep it up. So give us shots. Tune in each week for new topics new discussions new ways to continue seeking enlightenment through Daedalus Brome it up go to go to Brome dot com. For more info Lincoln the episode description, but you can push a button on the time so web or the time suck up. So there's that time has also brought to you by the best light collection dot com. Another time suck company hailing him rot. Russell grace. And Angela Coleman traveled the great USA with Fonzie the pug, their very own little Bojang. Goals in a windowless cargo van like a couple of crepes, but they're not creeps their kick ass. 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If they mentioned time suck via the site or on the site. And if you visit Russell or Angela on their travels you get a free time circulated gift with purchase. They'll be the coconut grove are festival. February sixteenth to the eighteenth Naples, national art festival February twenty third or twenty fourth many other places around the nation. So find the van meet Russell Angela pet Fonzie to best light collection dot com. Get your ten percent discount half-off shipping. Lincoln the episode. Description hail Nimrod and happy birthday. Russell Angela told me it's your birthday today. And she loves the kind generous smart talented creative and well hung adventure. You are. I added the well hung you get that big big dick energy about you. I wanted to throw that in there. Okay. Hey, do you like do you guys like Valentine day pins? We have some access design pins coming up in the store. Danger. Not going anywhere. Just diversify out. The look we have a triple. Set. Yeah. 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He'll Nimrod excited to get back to the happy murder tour this week in Wisconsin, Saturday, early show sold out tickets still available for some of the other shows so get to that point for the first live time suck of two thousand nineteen early Saturday Madison that show. Filling up tickets available for the ant hill kids Canadian tale of fire and brimstone cold Leary, bringing the happy murder to Philly the following week. And then both the live podcast and Stanford downtown Salt Lake City soon after some shows already selling out in Salt Lake which is fantastic than zanies in Nashville. Also, the Atlanta punchline show, February twenty seven almost sold out. If you thinking about going to that and please get your tickets now, not many lessons. Just I'm just gonna be there. One night. Check, Dan was dot TV for a full year of tour dates more live anthill kid sucks. Coming up in a few other cities. But now back to a subject that had caused more death and pain than any crazy. Canadian co-leader back to the black death. All right before we get into the story of the bonnet plague outbreaks and explore the chaos and widespread panic and horror that was life in Europe, thirteen forty seven to thirteen fifty one fifty two let's figure out how just how lethal the play was now these days, by the way, the shift a little bit forty-sevens really when it got going fifty one is really kind of started to fizzle out. But sometimes I might say thirteen forty six. That's when technically got there. Sometimes I might say thirty and fifty two because it was still a little bit go and thirty fifty two. So that's why it'll be a little bit of discrepancy or some discrepancies with dates. What is the play the play has been described by a lot of doctors as really good time. And something you'd be lucky to experience plague actually means fun stuff in Latin symptoms of the plague include feeling the top of your game euphoria pseudo immortality. Extra sound sleep constant sense of hope and gratitude of victims also report that their muscles feel satisfied, and very relaxed as it being continuously massage by cherubs or angels or small yet powerful. Women probably from Thailand or South Korea. Probably now from Poland skin play victims off days on a healthy. Angela glow called play glow. The feces of plague victims typically begin to smell like actual roses and become both edible and delicious and nutritious within twenty four hours of infection. That's when people know that they definitely have flake when they can eat their own healthy, low car. Rosie smelling delicious PU full of immune systems, strengthening probiotics and vitamins. One serving of plague peu estimated to have ten thousand times a daily recommended dosage vitamin E. Some scientists still thinking cure blindness and foster certain levitation abilities at the right doses. And of course, that's not true. Don't play Pooh aiding play Pooh is a very good way. To get plague. A plague is an infectious disease that affects rodents humans varies other animals, including those poor medieval sheep, we heard about from that fourteenth century priests. It comes from the your siniya pestis bacteria a little rod shaped cocoa bacillus cocka- cockatiels. Sylla's, and it loves the fleas, especially Radley's, fleece, or totally. It's like like if young tween your cine pestis could adorn their little rooms, the bacteria rooms posters did have almost nothing but sexiest flea posters. There are more than two thousand types of flea. But is primarily a flea known as the oriental rat flea that is attributed to the plague bacteria as its name suggests flee mostly feeds on rodents, but it can also bite humans and household pets despite his name doesn't care if you're Asian or not, and it's by name it wasn't named by a older casually and possibly unintentionally racist white man who still thinks it's okay to refer Asian people as oriental. The flaking girl up to two and a half millimeters in length and their adult fleas do not have wings. They are able to jump up to two hundred times the length of their bodies, the fleas are Brown and color and the reproductive organs are visible in its abdomen. When the bacteria is ingested by the flea, the forgot this little flea is blocked by a biofilm that prevents the the the the blood that the flea host is feeding itself on for making all the way through the fleas digestive process. So the flea begins to starve despite eating all the time. And then the hungrier the flea gets the harder it bites its host the harder at bites the harder. It regurgitates the plague bacteria into the open wound on the host. It's feeding from causing infection. Now, the bacteria is in the animal probably rat living in his bloodstream multiplying rapidly. And starting to kill the host, usually usually some host can live some host have immune systems. If for whatever reason. Are you know, pretty good? It's not Lao. Allowing this plague bacteria to kill it. And then if the new host acquires new new uninfected fleas, new fleas, drink is blood and infect themselves with some of the new bacteria now jumped more animals, infecting them, which in turn affects more fleas, which affects more animals and so on and so on and so on. Crazy how this organism lives as a parasite and primarily furthers infection by infecting other types of parasites Nashville double parasite situation, this bacteria is extremely frail and doesn't do. Well, if it gets kicked out of this cycle, it tends not delivery long of it's not inside a flea or another organisms blood or tissue when exposed to daylight dies quickly. It loves blood and darkness. How fitting for the organisers behind the black death to love blood and darkness. I I did wonder reading about its life cycle like where does this bacteria come from? Right. He can't always an only exist and never new series of host cannon. Like, where's it live? When it's not inside another organism of some sorts of appears to be a lot of scientific debate about Justice for a while. Many microbiologists did seem to think the disea- that the disease lived indefinitely in so-called enzootic maintenance cycles enzootic that would cause little you know, obvious host. Tally involved transmission between partially resistant rodents, basically some animals wouldn't die from it. But we continue to carry it around in their bloodstream until they've found other animals to infect however, North America played causes die-offs of entire colonies of prairie dogs, for example, and the disease will pop up again later in the same spot like like how can that happen? If it doesn't if he can't live outside host. If he kills all the toasting area and can't live outside of an organism. How does it pop up again? Well, something he can hide in lay dormant like like a sleeping monster or a mummy's curse until the new host or victims comes along a two thousand eight scientific study confirmed that the your cine pestis remains viable environment after at least forty weeks spent in sterilized humidifier had sand. So it looks like it can live in some dirt. Which is scary. There's a tiny little microscopic organisms lane some dirt somewhere laying in the desert somewhere. Just waiting to pop up and just reek fucking havoc Wooding too. Kickoff another pandemic of death and disease in a little flea rat comes along, and this thing this little little vampire wakes up hops on or into a new creature kicks off a whole new cycle of painful, death, your real dick, you're Scindia past as real douchebag of an organism up. You know that no one likes you. Humans. It's like other animals usually acquire the plague when they're bitten by fleas infected with plague bacteria. However, we meet sacks can also become infected from direct contact with the infected tissues or fluids from another animal sick with the plague or one that has recently died from the plague people can also become infected from inhaling respiratory droplets after close contact with other animals via pneumonic plague and we'll find out real soon. That's the worst fucking way to get it. That's the one that's the most lethal is that form of the play. That pneumonic plague basically with the play bleeds Kassir stays on you. Good channels, all your cine, a pestis motherfuckers going to get into your system. And if they get in your system, the odds of your body fighting out the disease, real low real low unless you get antics almost everyone who got pneumonic plague would die, for example, the mortality rate for the untreated form of the bacteria. The pneumonic form nearly one hundred percent there are three forms of the play all originating from the same 'Bacterial three different versions of the same horrible disease differentiate themselves by expressing different symptoms and. Attacking infecting different body systems. There's Bouba Clegg the name most closely associated with historical pandemics with the black death of victims of bubonic, plague experience, sudden onset of fever headache. Chills weakness and one or more swollen tender and painful, lymph nodes called abuse or play boils, this form is usually the result of an infected flea bites and your your lymph nodes or let's kinda like your little primary defenders in your immune system there like important part of the moon system. So these the bacterial attack these lymph nodes causing to swell, and that's people these these crazy lumps all over their body, the bacteria multiply in the lymph node closest to where the bacteria, enter the human body. The patients not treated with appropriate antibiotics, none of which existed in the fourteenth century, obviously bacteria, then can spread to other parts of the body attack. Other lymph nodes make it to the lungs make other organs and just do all kinds of bad things. There's also septicemic plague and this is when patients, and this is basically when the plague is just taking over your whole. Body patients develop a fever chills. Extreme weakness. Domino pain shock, possibly bleeding into the skin and other organs skin and other tissues may turn black and die especially in the fingers toes in the knows. That was a symptom of the plague people who could like these their fingers would start to rot basically turn black before. They would die. Sounds terrible septicemic play can occur as the first symptoms of plague or can develop from untreated bubonic or pneumonic plague and this was from the bites of infected fleas handling infected animal, including people, etc. And then there's pneumonic plague patients, develop fever, headache weakness and rapidly developing pneumonia with shortness of breath, chest pain, cough, sometimes bloody or watery. Mucus? Pneumonic plague may develop from inhaling infectious droplets from untreated bubonic or septicemic plague spreads to the lungs. The ammonia may cause respiratory failure. And shock pneumonic plague is the most contagious form of the disease. The only form of the play that can spread from person to person by infectious droplets like through the air. So I had a place Fred's. That's how it harms you an in pre antibiotic days killed the anywhere from fifty percent to damn near a hundred percent of those infected depending on the form their best case, you have a coin toss chance living if this gets you and kill you quick when these poor peasants cut this nightmare, you became ill started to exhibit symptoms two to six days after being affected unless they can't pneumonic plague some exposed through the air would get sick and die in the first twenty four hours in crazy. You could die in the first day. People you know, would begin to exhibit symptoms after dinner and be dead by breakfast. The mortality rate for the demonic plague. Yeah. Still hovers close to a hundred percent if not treated someone sneezes plague on you, you know, you're basically as good as dead back in the black death days. Can you imagine if a disease like that started to spread today, the panic that would set in? I mean, really think let your mind go there for a second. Like what what have condoms didn't help prevent HIV. And if you caught it you'll be dead within a day like your dick would turn black and fall off your guy and you'll be fucking dead into Tae. But that's basically equivalent. I guess maybe even a better comparison. What if a new, hyper aggressive and lethal just common cold just a common cold? But this common cold kills you an day. One sneezes on you. And you're dead. You know by the next day that's tragedy just beyond the scope of anything. I think any of us can comprehend today. So where does this disease come from genetic research has shown that this microbe evolved in around in or around China more than twenty six hundred years ago, followed humans around the globe eastern Mongol invaders without to have brought the play the lead the black death with them to the now infamous siege of Kafka and thirteen forty six infected. Corpses were literally catapulted over the city walls in this siege. We're gonna talk about this in great detail a little bit bar Barrick early form of biological warfare. And that would lead to the greatest disaster Europe had ever seen. And this disaster will kick off today's times like timeline, which we will dive into right after a word from one of today's sponsors. Today's times is brought to you by Ed campers pet head kebabs. Kemper though moon behind Kemper pets Nichols. And today I'd like to talk to you about a pet head kvass, but they could blow basically pet Sigel's. That are not frozen cat. Heads dog heads any kind are head that gets your zap was going to make mother so mad in honor of this play episode run a sale on route head kebabs. There are great for kids. Some kids are too small to hold a giant dog on a stick. And I get that mother would not get that. Which is why she gets what she gets the head on a stick. So and joy half off a whole rat head cut off and stuck on a stick by me. 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This is perfect for you to checkout. New episodes of extraterrestrial come on Tuesday, look for upcoming episodes spotlighting. Reptilian humanoids space lizards and the nineteen seventy seven UFO invasion in Fort Benning, Georgia exciting, just searching subscribe to extra-terrestrial wherever you listen to podcasts. Again, that's E X T R A T E R R E S T R. I A L extraterrestrial. Visit par cast dot com slash extra terrestrial to start listening. Now Lincoln the episode description time now for reels for the time so timely. Wrap on those boots soldier where marching down a time summertime line. Thirteen forty six siege of kaffa this word. Today's times begins even though the black death was likely not the first outbreak of the plague bacteria to hit Europe. We'll discuss other historical outbreaks briefly after today's time line the little city Kafka is known presently as Fedosseeva of fail fail. Does Lia a port and resort town of about seventy thousand people on the Crimea peninsula and the Black Sea. It's across the black seat of the north from present day Turkey sits in an area that has long been under dispute when it comes to who rules it even now the pencil is torn between Russia and Ukraine to Russia. Annexed it in two thousand fourteen with the with an annexation that has been disputed by many disputed by many to this day back in the mid fourteenth century the area was ruled by the Mongols kind of the Mongols the Mongol empire fractured in the mid thirteenth century. And this area was ruled by one of the Konitz the golden horde. This was ruled by the the the totters allies of the Mongols who originated in present day. Russia essentially was still culturally Mongol. Well, it's complicated. And it's not necessarily diving today. I don't want our our history buffs to wig out when I say Mongol in place of torture. But that's what's going to happen. If you dig into the deter Mongol is usually used. Yeah. I know I know, but the term still works, and I like the word Mongol more than like the word torture. I don't like saying it tighter. Are you taught her are you do you like do you like totters sounds? We're the Mongols sorry of your daughter. The mongo's in late thirteenth century had had allowed a group of Italian traders from the Republic of Genoa to establish a trading settlement of copper, and it became very successful. Everyone made a lot of money except the slaves were traded out of this port. They of course, made zero money and treated horribly always terrible to be safe, cough, virtually monopolized trade in the Black Sea region became a major seaport housing one of Europe's largest slave markets. The Mongols benefitted immensely from the Genoese businesses in the bustling city as earned them access to Italy's largest commercial center stimulated trade across his vast empire. An empire that put it in contact with that damn plague bacteria the plague may originated in the Gobi desert of the far east. East covers parts of northern and northwestern China some of southern Mongolia a land ruled by the Mongols local nomads had known for centuries to avoid the rats of this area. There's a chance of disease of all the being in this area had been killing the occasional nomad for hundreds of hundreds of years and Mongol trade routes may have brought the bacteria east from this desert to the shores of the Black Sea, many of the Mongols in this in the area had been practicing Muslims from the twelve hundred on and the Genoese merchants were Christians and occasionally religious differences led to conflicts one of these conflicts would lead to the black plague European outbreak shocking, right? Wait, wait a minute. That's that's so weird us aware that one people who believed that there should be called. This name would fight and kill other people who believe that there should be called that name. Crazy. I'd be curious to see how many people have died fighting in battles that were primarily religious conflicts over the entirety of the world's history. I bet over a billion, and that's not a shot of religion. We didn't have religion to fight over. I'm positive. We would find. Or would have found historically some other reason to kill each other mates ax. We can be such a short-sighted, greedy bloodthirsty bunch thirteen forty three. There was a fight between Genoese Christians and local Muslims in another Genoese post on the Black Sea present in present day as of Russia and a local Muslim ended up dead and some Genoese Christians were blamed, and they didn't feel like sticking around to see how trial would play out. So they fled the walled. Or they fled to the walled city of Kafka where they were granted protection given asylum there so Mongol soldiers they follow Geno Genoese Takada demand. The city hand over these culprits shocked when coffer refused to open the city gates, and let them in or hand over the men in question infuriated, the Khan of the golden horde, Jani beg chose to attack and and thirteen forty-three the mongo's laid siege. To the city of Kafka confident turn out to be the easy victory. They were hoping for cough fought back in stunning fashion. Even though they were just a small poor city surrounded by Mongol territory. They had act. Test to the see and to powerful friends that quickly sent supplies military reinforcements over from Italy, the first siege ended after the Mongols retreated suffering about fifteen thousand deaths and heavy damage to their siege. Equipment. They they left the battle. But they weren't done with the Christmas. Two years later thirteen forty five Jani beg returned bearing more than just siege. Machinery. I've no idea his name is Jay a an I b g I couldn't find a pronunciation guide for Jani Beg's sounds so or janey janey beg. It sounds like a weird like, but rock lead singer. I'm Jenny big and welcome to fucking now. The pumpkin smashing who whatever it's only some cross between like Cinderella and warrant anyway, this time he unknowingly brought the black death which had been ravaging portions of central Asia on and off since thirteen thirty one. So while the Mongols laid siege to the city of cough again their ranks were now being struck by. Mysterious illness, according to an account of the events of Crimea. The the totters suddenly found themselves falling on all sides. As though they've been struck by thunder with lumps in their joints dark marks on their face. They developed a putrid fever began to quickly perish despite heavy losses to disease they fought bravely on into thirteen forty six but constantly being killed by enemy. They couldn't see they just couldn't conquer Kafka. And so then they did something outlandish they decided to use the disease that was destroying them as a weapon they decided that they couldn't beat the Genoese. They would at least share the torment they experienced so sometime in late thirteen forty six or early thirteen forty seven they began loading up their tributaries. These giant medieval catapult, these big slingshot type devices military siege. Predecessors to kenan's typically would use big swinging wooden arms to hurl boulders into fortress, walls or something. Similar will they were. Now loading these things up with the plague infected bodies of the rotting. Dead and launching them into the town of cough for real medieval biological warfare. Can you believe that shit thing about one day? You're a soldier in coffin. You're used to boulders arrows coming out you you're used to the Mongols trying to slap ladder up and scaled the wall and get inside used them trying to ram the gate open storm the city and then one day just out of nowhere. You suddenly see these guys fucking put in one of the dudes into the into the catapult. And then you see one of the Mongols own dead soldiers, literally flying through the air into your city what the fuck on the splatter against building or something just splattering their putrid, rotting bodies into your walls buildings and streets. I mean, imagine finding someone using their own dead soldiers weapons. Imagine if we flew over Nazi controlled cities in World War Two and dropped bodies instead of bombs at first generally soldiers emergence, had to think the Mongol lost their minds Abbadi isn't gonna knock down a wall or these crazy assholes doing, and you have to wonder to the Mongols even really know. They were doing. I mean, no one knew how diseases spread back then people were far more likely to think they're being punished by God and a tiny micro organism was attacking them. But but maybe they did suspect. They probably did suspect that you know, you could catch whatever was happening from someone who already had it or maybe they just knew that suddenly having a city full of a specially bad smelling. Corpses would just be an extremely unpleasant and possibly demoralizing thing to happen. We don't know. We just though that they really did start catapulting bodies into this guy. So crazy to me these Trevor shades could throw an object a few hundred pounds up to a thousand feet they fucking launch Deutz. Our does that for the Mongol soldiers as well are not soldier loud to projectile? No, not that rock. Not this time. We have new orders from the con- today. Put him in the swing him. Our comrade would that's creeks. Our I know it's crazy. I'm not probably Greg's did he will Mont Willie. But shouldn't we bury him soured? Greg was like a brother to me he thought well he deserved proper burial. Greg. Search me over the law is what Greg would have wanted. He fought for some laughs. And he will fight for us and death it Greg won the proper burial. Greg shouldn't have got sick. Okay. Should it? Got us in the city. Greg doesn't get a barrel. Now, Greg fucker flung load. The Greg aim the Greg father, Greg. Soda goodbye, Greg. Wow. Last kind of peaceful, really. But just to keep him never thought. I'd see creek soar solar eagle? Like Condor forget about Greg soldier load. The Chuck aim the Chuck farro, Chuck. That has accidents. Nothing do with Mongols by one with the military. Well, I really think about this launch thing. I I'm I come and go out that way right from Ari. Did I kind of want to be treated that way? What a fun funeral that would be like for real make it a game. Funeral lenzi. Listen up for my funeral. I want my body to be launched out of a giant catapult? Ideally into the seeks that wanna fuck in splattered, maybe mastered buddy launched me into the sea. But like a beach Erica peer something and put a little buoy out like two hundred yards. You fling me past that buoy everyone at the funeral wins one hundred dollar gift certificate. All right. If you least give me some deep water, everyone at ten give to eat a ten dollar Starbucks gift certificate, if I just making the water, but then I also want like a burning funeral pyre like three hundred yards out if you're gonna let me on that fire. Oh shit. Everyone. Just wanted new f- fifty. I'm gonna have Ford sponsor my funeral. Best funeral ever four tough lunch. The Dan aim the Dan Le anyways Gabriel, democracy Genoese lawyer witnessed literal launch the dead just leave recorded the first account of the plague attack in Europe. He later wrote this I. This account thirteen forty eight the dying Tatas stunned stupefied by the mainstay of the disaster. Brought about by the disease realizing that they had no hope of escape lost interest in the siege. But they ordered corpses to be placed in catapults and loud into the city in the hope that the intolerable stench would kill everyone inside would seem like mountains of dead with thrown into the city and the Christians could not hide flee or escape from them. Although they dumped as many bodies as they could into the sea as soon as the rotting corpses tainted the air and poisoned the water supply. And the stench was so over well-meaning that holiday one in several thousand one is position to flee. The remains of the Totta army. Moreover, one infected man could carry the poison to others and infect people in places with the disease by look alone. No, one knew or could discover a means defense men that had been so crazy, right? You just trying to get these bodies in the sea and dump them to get away from these keep launching one after another loud. The Charlie fire the Charlie load the Dennis fire. Dennis just fucking body after body like stopped fucking towing. You're on us. Poor Genoese Bassim and fighting the Mongols off, you know for for years reinforcements com. They still control the shipping lanes and the Black Sea Morales, you know, high for a while. And then these mongo Sunday Business are flinging dead into the city dead with dark, purple or black lumps all of their bodies rotting fingers. Just a stench just as permeates everything just amend the shock, and gore and horror of it all and suddenly within a few days, maybe a week or a month or so tops after the first body splash against or streets, one of their own get sick, really sick the lumps. They've seen on the enemy corpses. Now appears on one of them soon. They see other plague signs coughing up blood skin turning black then often within a day of showing symptoms Genoese dying the corpses. Adding to the corpses. Still literally being flung on them. The horror of the black death has hit Europe in what inter Matic fashion, an early thirteen forty seven Genoese merchants begin to try and flee the death and despair cover getting their boats flicking, let's get outta here. This is a terrible place to be they sail back towards. And they bring the nightmare with them and greatly. Accelerated the spread of the disease in Europe on may of thirteen forty seven Italian shifts from kaffa Coppa arrived in Constantinople with the black death on board. The ethnic breaks loose there in early July in North Africa and the Middle East plague arrives around September first heavy made it to Cleopatra's, oh, hang out of Alexandria, via you know, merchant ship coming out of Constantinople spreads from Constantinople to various other European meta training commercial hubs in the fall of thirteen. Forty seven reaches Marseille a seaport in southeast France. By about the second week of September and November thirteen forty seven Genoese merchants. Fleeing kava have made it to their hometowns of Genoa and Venice with the plague on board by the time. They arrived almost no one is still alive on the ship ships ships of the dead and dying arriving in Italian ports, like something out of Topi and horror movie, the deeply religious Christians of the area must have been thinking. This was the end of times got his come back, and he's very angry on their on their way. Home shift some Gino also contaminate Florence's seaport city of pizza. And then all these great commercials cities imports quickly launched the disease via inland, traveling merchants to to most of the rest of Europe certain out of the way towns would be completely left alone. Right. Little rural villages had you know, very little contact with the outside world. Some of them would be spared entirely. Other towns would be viscera and just fucking wiped off the map and a few mere months to plague spread throughout all Italy. Have Spain France down the coast of del Mesa on the Adriatic Sea and north into Germany spray was alarming speed through Tuscany to Florence CNN and Rome when the pestilence reached Milan. The occupants of the first three houses it struck were walled up sick or not and just left to die inside harsh ordered by archbishop, but it appeared to succeed to some degree from along with suffer less plague deaths than almost any other major talion city Florence or I think actually suffered less than all the other major cities Florence at driving. Prosperous center of trade and culture, not so lucky. It was hit particularly hard by some estimates losing as much as sixty five thousand residents roughly a third of its population. The Italian poets Bo Bocaccio book chill, a man whose most famous work the dike Cameron Senator around a group of people fleeing Florence to avoid the plague rotas brother about what he witnessed at this time. His brother was living in a monastery and Montereau in France was the only survivor of thirty five people there his brother remained in the monastery alone with his dog to guard intended after everyone else was dead and Abucha Cossio. I think he's saying, but Cossio wrote my brother, my brother, my brother, a new beginning to a letter though used by Cicero fourteen hundred years ago, alas my beloved brother, what shall I say how shall I begin with or shall I turn on all sides is sorrow everywhere as fear. I would my brother that I'd never been born or at least had died. Before these times, how will posterity believe that. There has been a time when without the Lightnings of heaven or the fires of earth without wars or other visible slaughter not this or that part of the earth. But well nigh the whole globe has remained without inhabitants. Win has any such thing ever been heard or seen in what annals has it ever been read that houses were left vacant cities, deserted the country, neglected the fields too small for the dead and a fearful in universal solitude over the whole earth. Oh, happy. People have diffuser who have not known these miseries and chance will class are testimony with the fables. We have indeed deserve these punishments and even greater, but our forefathers also have deserved them. And may our posterity not also merit the same. So. Yeah. So he's trying to tell people man, I swear this sounds fucking crazy by swear this happened. It was really this bad. As I worked on the section notes. I was sitting in a hotel room. Overlooking downtown New Brunswick New Jersey, I can see a future steeples. I varies apartments. Condos stores a few a few parking, lots parks, and even though it was cold out. People are walking around the streets below. And I just started wonder what it would be like to look down and just see death and mayhem just lifeless bodies right lane all over the streets because there wasn't enough healthy people still living to to remove them. What if the park had been converted to a mass grave before the grave diggers themselves died what if I could hear coffee and wailing from some rooms down the hall. You know, what if some of the living below or covered in dark lumps? What if some were coughing up blood? You know, what if I started to feel fever myself that was the reality for people like because show like what they were saying and Sienna work on a cathedral was permanently interrupted by the plague a workers died or grew too ill to continue and money for the project was diverted to deal with the health crisis. By the time the play was over the city lost half population. And there was no more funds for church building the partially constructed a transept was patched up and abandoned. And it can still be seen today. Still left like this. I looked at a bunch of pictures online and just like the nave of the cathedral unfinished nave, so creepy when you think about why it was left unfinished. Right. It's just it's just a fourteenth century time. Capsule to says monument to the plague stands this day a project stopped mid project by this vision disease, fucking fleas, man, fleas rats, continually spreading pain, the last places project Jones, you can look at today put there by workers who probably died of the plague right? They're putting that last little piece in the day. The fever starting to overtake them starting to feel a few lumps appear another body start to feel weak sort to have trouble breathing start to think I'll fuck not me. No, not me, please. God not me being and think about those. They just seem die that morning. The night before the agony coming for them. Now. Holy shit. Whatever your problems were the day before the plague hit worrying about money worrying about little fight. You got him with your wife or husband or father mother worried about your wedding ceremony coming up it's going to be like what you wanted to be. Or if the car? Nobody's going to finally fix your shoes. None of that means dick now death is suddenly all you can think of I just wanna live all around you what you lay in bed and dread at night. Fucking crazy. These initial peasants were especially afraid of a play death due to what it could mean for their eternal souls in the early months of the plague devastation, many peasants died thinking, they were probably going to hell they believed that if you weren't giving last rites of dissolving you of your sins before you died, the probably gonna burn in hell forever. These people died in agony and fear fear for their souls so much concern about not being able to get last rites that eventually pope Clement to six granted remission of sin to anyone who died from the plague speaking of the pope from Marseille disease move north to Avalon. Have Evy agian agian avenue on in less than thirty days. In October the seat of the papacy had been moved from roamed avenue on in the early part of the fourteenth century and new pope Clement the six occupied the post as spiritual leader of all Christian dumb Clement decided that he would be no use to anyone if he was dead. So he made it his businesses revive his physicians helped matters along by insisting he remained isolated which did help him say alive, and they keep him warm. Just having him sit between two roaring fires. Just stay there. Sleep between the two fires had two fires going around pretty much twenty four hours a day, not pretty much deaf twenty four hours a day, and it worked historians think the heat of those fires kept the rats and fleas away. And that's how the pope remained free of the plague unfortunately, a quarter of Clement staff at least a quarter died in avenue on before the disease was done was room between those two fires. Everyone mad, but he didn't want anybody near him. You'll holiness I. I am freezing. I am deeply saddened from the constant deaths. I could use wolves my very soul is frozen. Can I sit in pray? Neil fire. There is no room go away. But your holiness, the files a big in the room is large. There was actually plenty of space if you'll steer my hate. He will take on. My hates will perish begun with you now, but you'll holding this. I'm quite sure that that's not how it works. There will be the same amount of heat hitting both of your covered in fleas. I can see them. I can see the fleas jumping inviting it's too late for you. Either jump into the fire yourself and that to the warmth Oko back and count. How many people are coughing and avenue, I need to know how much longer this will go on be a DEA throw. A few more logs on the five before you head out to perish. Once the disease had traveled along most of the trade routes in Europe by early thirteen. Forty eight is exact course becomes more difficult in some areas nearly impossible to plot. We know that penetrated into Bavaria by June of thirteen forty eight its course across the rest of Germany's uncertain while the south of England also infected by June of thirteen forty eight. The worst of the epidemic didn't hit the majority of Great Britain until thirteen forty nine hit Britain hard. The first outbreak of plague swept across England traveling across the south bubonic form during the summer months. Thirteen forty eight before mutating into even more frightening pneumonic form the onset of winter it hit London in September thirteen forty eight spread to the eastern coast early during the next year by spring of thirteen forty nine it was ravaging Wales in the Midland's by late summer. It had made the leap across the Irish. And also penetrated north into Scotland scotch were quick to take advantage of their English neighbours discomfort rating Durham and thirteen forty nine and we heard about in the beginning of the suck and the play guitar Scotland by the end of thirteen forty nine. And yet or thirteen fifty like, I said one graphic testimony can be found in Saint Mary's Ashwell Herefordshire or an anonymous hand has carved a heroin inscription for the year, thirteen forty nine all the card was rich. Terrible destructive the remnants of the people love remain. Rumors of a terrible plague sweeping like wildfire across Europe you've been rumbling for some time. It's not surprised it's vibrant trading. Port of Bristol was the first major town in Britain to be affected had close connections with European continent. Ships men merchant ships in the rats and fleas on board spread that play around Europe. Like, no, he's business. The pestilence ride London in thirteen forty eight showed up in time for the feast of All Saints on the first and grew so powerful to between Candlemas and Easter between February second April twelfth more than two hundred corpses were buried every day and the new burial ground made next to Smithfield. This was in addition to the bodies, buried and other graveyards and city would make things worse with the fact that London was almost certainly hit by combined attack of new Monica bubonic leg, the bacteria was spreading rapidly in both forms rats fleas cost stays is pushing it all over the damn place rage in London till the spring of thirteen fifty generally assumed to have killed between a third and half of the entire population. And just over a year's time. I mean, imagine your city losing half as population. In about a year unfathomable in some British villages. It was far worse. Eighty to ninety percent of the population died in certain places in Kilkenny Ireland. The death rate was allegedly almost one hundred percent in Spain in Portugal to play crept inland from port cities at a somewhat slower pace than it didn't Italy, and France and the war Granada Muslim soldiers were the first of come to the onus and some feared the horrific disease was Ali punishment and even contemplated. Converting to Christianity before they could do. So However, Christian enemies also struck down making it clear that the plague took no notice religious -ffiliated. It was in Spain that the only major ruling monarch of Europe would die of this disease. The advisors of king Alphonso the eleventh of Casteel begged him to isolate himself, but he refused to leave his troops. And then he got sick and died on March twenty six thirteen fifty by thirty and forty nine after having infected virtually all of western Europe and half central Europe. Does this the spread of the plague finally began to slow down most of Europe and Britain now keenly aware? A horrible pandemic was amongst them. The more affluent have been fleeing the heavily populated areas. Retreating to the countryside by thirteen forty nine many of the areas that initially been afflicted, we're beginning to see the end of the first wave, however in the more heavily populated cities. It was only a temporary temporary respite Peres London. Other major crowded areas suffered several waves of the plague in following years. Not as bad as the first wave, but it would come back a few years later decade later and kilobytes people lower again at some point late thirty and forty nine the plague made its way north Norway in the most nightmarish creepy way by this time quarantines have been putting effect in most European ports because the plate the word quarantine comes from the plague ships arriving in Venice from other infected ports has started to be required to sit at anchor for forty days before coming to shore, the were quarantine derived from the Italian words Cortana Johnny which means forty days the practice didn't keep the plague from reaching Venice didn't stop it from reaching Norway either ah ship carry. In wool sailed from London and late thirteen forty nine bound for Norway. And this ship was doomed in a way, I've never read about shipping doom before the journey should have only taken around ten days, not counting the quarantine, well one or more of the sailors that apparently been infected before the vessels departure, and by the time it made it to the quarantine the entire crew was dead all of them just a big trading ship with an entirely dead crew floating off the coast of Norway. If it would have just sunk Norway may have been spared from the plague or at least for spared for a while longer. But the ship kept quietly drifting on plague infested rats and fleas the only living passengers, and then it ran aground near Bergen. Norway were some curious Norwegians when aboard to investigate is mysterious arrival and got infected. Ooh, we're very seek. Now. The play was often running from Bergen. The plague spread rapidly northward southwards along the coast over land to eastern Norway. The plague death from Maine to Norway for proximity. Six months by thirteen fifty Sweden. By thirteen fifty one at bounce over into you know present day like Finland northeastern Russia. The plague spread slower in these areas may not have been quite as devastating due to fewer urban areas. Long hard winters long distance between townships fewer heavily traded trade routes. By thirteen fifty one. The black death was largely over. Although recurrent outbreaks of the plague in isolated areas would continue off off and on for centuries. But it would never ravaged Europe in the same way again, and I should note that that even during the black death that he played largely did spare some parts of Europe, including isolated parts of Belgium, and the Netherlands Malawi said wasn't, you know, heavily affected the modern day, France Spain border wasn't heavily effected, you know, usually these places weren't affected because of isolated geography, you know, political isolation, you know, just whatever they weren't interacting much with the rest of Europe the play also largely spared. The kingdom of Poland research has determined that even plague fleas and play rats are grossed out by polish people and found that there the blood tastes like rancid parolees, and the disease just doesn't it doesn't care for if you were polish the black death was great time to be alive. There was suddenly plenty of work because all of a sudden the rest of Europe people who would normally chase you around with a pitchfork has got intended. We're now willing to try. At you as if you're almost a human being and give you work nary Zolt to meal, as I'm sure some of you are taking my Qasim polish character assassination. No, the plague really did spare spare the kingdom of Poland. Now why? Well, no, one knows for absolute certain, but solid polish leadership seems to be a major factor. Not joking now who knew king causa. Amir the great was a beloved and respected ruler in fourteenth century Poland. Seriously, sound like a kick ass fella. Most Polish cities have been renovated from the ground up during his reign. This could have helped limit the spread of the play better infrastructure, less crowded better sanitation. He also kept borders sealed for the plague duration in force. The isolation of towns may not have a understood the signs of how the disease spread. But he did know that when someone got infected with the plague when they showed up into into town other people starting to sick. So the best way to spread stops the spread the disease was to isolate your community. He knew that also pulled it had relatively fewer people back then compared to most other European. Kingdoms? It was actually during the reign of king Casimir the great to the population of his caney would explode prosperity many under his rule benefited from also helped to Poland was more rural. During the plague years, then many surrounding countries. And finally, this is totally random. I'm not sure it's even true. But I found it interesting found this on a historical Reddit thread and felt compelled to share it supposedly Poland had a lot more cats not kidding than the average European nation around this time of these cats may have helped out a theory cat, supposedly we're not killed in Poland due to a lack of superstition there regarding cats that did exist. Elsewhere Polish-born is worried about them being, you know, harbinger harbingers of the of the devil or Satan's minions or which is fucking sidekicks or anything. So because there were more cats there were fewer rats around for the fleas to jump on. Because the cats have held the rat population down again, I don't know. That's totally accurate. But I found it interesting bojangles. Things is a bunch of bullshit are one eyed three legged pitch. Defender mascot. He thinks that cats are demonic in nature, and that if anything they started to play to kill off both dogs, and humans, so they could rule the world and piss and shit wherever they please. So, you know, that's another perspective. Dad tells us in the fall of thirteen fifty one the plague reached the Russian town of scoff by the by the spring of thirteen fifty to the plague reached knob now Garad Russia by thirteen fifty three the plague a reach Moscow and he killed an estimated thirty to fifty percent of the population and all of those places and by thirteen fifty four while occasional recurrences of plague we continue to ravage very cities and areas with outbreaks for centuries. The black death was basically done with Europe, those survived were we're going to likely live until something else was going to get them and Europe started to rebuild, you know, pull a self out of the wreckage carnage that the black death had left its left it in and that takes out of today's time suck timely. Good job soldier made it back bearing. For we discuss other areas outside of Europe ravaged by the black death. Other historical plague pandemics insane plague medical treatments and more a word from today's final sponsor. 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Now back to the black death. Why why did salt and pepper to show up my head? I don't even know I wasn't planned bump bump bump bump bump bump bump on up on up bump. Butcher real good. I'm thought of that in years. When you look back that the bulk of information, I have so many tunes in my head all the time by I try to fight it. There's always a tune Lindsey knows my wife knows a mum about weird shell time constantly fighting like sometimes I feel like that's why I get distracted even with my notes mess things up 'cause I'm trying to keep the tune quiet in my head like this entire episode because of last week's episode because of Mosman the whole time I've been talking today malls. Fuel. They're always the whole episode in my head. Okay. Yeah. When you look into the black death. You'll come across. A lot of information dealing with the plague affecting Europe. But it didn't just devastate Europe the play traveled to Europe from Asia, what kind of damage did it do over there and thirteen thirty one almost two decades before the plague made it to Europe the play was fucking up Asia. An outbreak erupted in the Yuan empire and thirteen thirty one may have hastened the end of Mongol rule in China. The dynamic ravaged the empire. Millions of people died in ubaid province of northeastern China alone as a twelve hundred China had a total population of more than one hundred twenty million, but a thirteen ninety three cents is found only sixty five million Chinese surviving. Some of the missing population killed by famine and upheaval in the transition from the Huang Ming rule, but untold millions and millions in all likelihood died of the plague most of them likely died in the early and mid thirteenth century from its origin. At the eastern end of the silk road. The black death road trade routes west stopping central Asian caravanseries, which we're like basically old school caravan truck stops and Middle Eastern. Trade centers and subsequently infected people all across Asia, the AGIP shin scholar. Al MAs rocky noted that more than three hundred tribes all perished without apparent reason in their summer and winter candidates, and the course of pasturing their flocks and during their seasonal migration, he claimed all of Asia was depopulated as far as the Korean peninsula. And that's crazy. It like, you know, various tribes, all perished. And I bet they did. Because even to play didn't kill everybody in that caravan, and you're trying to get to the desert it probably in many cases, killed enough people where the rest of the people weren't able to continue to survive without the help of the people who had just died are they would depend on each other to get through these, you know, desert's and stuff, and if the people who were good at like getting your fucking food and keeping the keeping the the caravan moving if you're if you're horses and everything were dying to now, then you're gone thirty thirty five the Mongol ruler of Persia in the Middle East. Abu Said died of plague during the war with northern cousins, golden horde this signal the beginning to the end of. Mongol rule in the region. Estimated thirty percent of Persians people died of the plague in the mid fourteenth century one. European merchant noted several years before the plane hit Europe that India was populated to Tari are. Tehri Mesopotamia Syria Armenia recover with dead bodies. The Kurds fled in vain to the mountains. What about Africa written records were Africa? Just sadly, just not as common from the era as they were in Europe Asia much harder to determine exactly how much damage the play did there, but one play scholar expert in William and Mary associate professor of history and director of the medieval and renaissance studies program. Gerard Chouan is determined to find out at for four years of work. Shown is adamant that the medieval Arab Ovonic plague spread to sub Saharan Africa and killed as many people there as it did in Europe. So I mean in total the plague may reduce the world population from estimated foreign fifty million down to three hundred and fifty million in the late fourteenth century numbers. It would have been far higher. If you're paeans had already been travelling to north and South America where the plague, you know, didn't kill anybody. It would take roughly two hundred years for the wolf population to recover to its previous level set the world's population kind of growth, you know, back. Two centuries. So now, we have a pretty good idea of how this disease spread the how much damage it did once you're up knew that a pessimist was upon it. Once the body started to stack up how did various community try to stop the plague. How did they try to treat the plague arguably the worst part of getting sick in the fourteenth century was the fact that real doctors did not exist at all there were people considered to be doctors people who thought of themselves as doctors and they made the biggest quacks of today. Look like, medical genius. These guys had no fucking clue what they were doing when it came to disease getting strong antibodies and getting them quickly gives you the best chance of surviving a plague infection today, but in have that medieval doctors, mainly treated the disease with various herb concoctions or bloodletting bloodletting terrible way to treat the play. The turbo tree, basically anything. Great way to spread. The plague herbs don't do shit when it comes to play a little bit of Rosemary little bit of basil. Oregano, my make chicken tastes better. It's not gonna help you not die of plague a prayer. It was a common medical treatments. But you know, you don't get to pray. The plague away a lot of people tried millions tried and millions died in fourteenth, century Europe. The main medical diagnostic method was studying urine. That's where you know. Doctor was at. Have cat scans. You're going to get an MRI the you're just they're just gonna check out your piss. It'd be like, nah, look sick. Doesn't look good like bad piss. The image of a doctor holding up a urine flask. A pit him is the height of medical knowledge of the time. I not getting and they wouldn't just look at your end. They would they would smell taste it yesterday. Medieval doctors, just. Yes differently. Plague Debbie play limit limited or civil the on. Yes. That tastes like played bass to me. I suspected you had to play looking into purple lumps steady blackening fingers, increasingly buddy, coffee fits. But now we have the analysis to test results to confirm my suspicions. Yo yo paces is definitely blank piece. I would normally recommend the cost of treatment involving the smelling of lavender and covering you and leeches perhaps cutting your arms, but we've been out of leeches for weeks. We have no lavender's. So I grabbed him down to lions the best. I can do under the circumstances. Please sniff. These I shall poke you in the arm and a few prices to get your blood leaving your body praise hot as as you stiff the dandelions that will it work. Delta will I live is. Yes, there's a very good chance to survive. I'm one of the best plague doctors, I I care almost one in twenty of my patients, excuse me, have to be myself is large dock boils drive me, quite crazy. An idiot rid of mo- blood gets better pace in my system before I carry on maybe sniff, some juniper berries, obviously. Treatments and not work at all. When people kept dying. Doctor's got more desperate and creative in their attempts. To stop the plague. So doctors resorted to rubbing actual human shit on the play Bulos for real the inflamed. Lymph nodes and the armpits are growing play. Jim Ralph and be opened up. I can't imagine a painful flabby, so they would open up to get let the disease leave the body. You know, you gotta cut it. Open get the blood coming out of there. So the disease can flee, and then they make this mixture of tree resin flower roots and human shit, like little shit putty, and they would fuck and push that in your open lymph node sore area. And then and then, you know, kind of wrap you up to make sure that shit stays in there. My god. That had to be so painful and then had to greatly accelerated your infection. There's no way anyone survived that if they had to play and then had a bunch of shit rubbed inside of their body. If they did your tough son of a bitch user that treatment. I hope I hope you're on. My my ancestors. Hope I have some your genetics that fuck tough urine became marketed, not only is diagnostic tool, but as a cure as well someplace victims told that if they bathed in urine a few times a day it could save him. Right. If you had the money to buy that much, piss drinking urine, also encouraged. History. But you gotta bring healthier you can't drink some nasty as plague your and that's fucking gross come on, man. Drink quality piss. There's a glass or two of clean piss a day keeps the plague away drinking piss every day keeps up plague far away during the years of black desk. Clean uninfected urine was collected and given or sold of people if you're healthy bake, some sweet side money just sell in jars of your own piss people did that people made money selling urine for other people to drink imagine that on a resume today coming up like a job, you know, trying to get a job. I'm looking fused regarding what you did in one thousand nine hundred nine appears you stop. We're gonna hot topic in one thousand nine hundred eight didn't get employed by buckle until two thousand one. What were you doing for those other years? There was a plague outbreak in I made some money for years. Come again, this is sold it for people to drink. So they wouldn't get sick that work. No. No, no, no at all. I think it made them quite a bit sticker, but make good money a lot of money and piss if you can find the right market. Many people believe the disease were spread by by smell back. Then so a lot of the treatments in preventative measures revolved around creating either pleasant or horrible, smells, some peasants would fill their home with flowers and herbs like low potpourri keep the stink of decaying bodies of away. Because he thought the tell you got sick. You know, you smell the stink. Others would try to outstink the plague. They would let various animals rot outside their doorsteps inside their homes. Other. So fucked up just pick your dislike outside the cottage. Just like a couple of dead dogs is rotten away. Maybe a couple of rotten rotting raccoons, or or one of those of those one of those dang I can't think of that animal, that's pretends to be possible composites every couple of dead possums, you know, laid out around the house. So gross other smelling their own shit would keep the plug away. And and they would lock themselves in in latrines, and it would breathe in just as much Phut aromas. They could in some bigger cities. You know, some attempted to live underground in the sewers this round themselves stink many stop bathing altogether to avoid the plague just hoping that their own stink would keep the disease away. Just just stop bathing drink piss rub shit in your wounds, smell poo, and hopefully, you won't get sick. Some doctors also advise thinking pleasant thoughts to keep the plague away just the old wish it away treatment. Please play peace. Don't come. I don't want to die today. Please plague Pedo come. I don't want to die that way. Paik? Stay away a rumour poo in my wounds, ROY Moore poo in my wound drink more if you stay away unicorns unicorns puppy cuddles. Fuck. Getting massage by mermaids eighty something and desktop poop. Drinking wine drinking up his that's what I want. My happy place. Other doctors recommended doing your little as possible voiding set movements to stay Ellie. They had to fucking idea guys who's recommending the craziest shit. Pope pope Clement the sixth that guy hanging out between the two fires. He recommended limiting conversation with others, with the exception of those whose breath is sweet to stay away. From poop poop breath, give out of here. How to toast this? I'm not trying to get plague. You foul mouth Sal tongue. Son of a bitch San Jeffrey back in who's breath, smells, like lavender. Eating crush emeralds. Was away the wealthy would try to cure the plague this fucking whatever. Didn't help probably did terribly Colin's quite a bit. Some people. So people try rubbing hot onions on their plague boils. Some people thought you could actually dance the plug away just dance and sing and be merry until the play would leave you alone. Right. Like little rats like come on our access. Take off leash to the next town. They had to happy here canton. These patients look into the fundamental jigs. They're doing don't want to miss that up as find some sad folk to inflict down the road. The craziest cure attempt to read about involved pigeons. Some people thought if you got a hold of a pigeon. Then plucks the feathers off its tail then held the pigeons raw ass to your to your play playboy l-. So you open up like the playboy l- you cut open. The Boyle fuck rip out the pigeons feathers get like a bloody button. Then you stick the the pigeon, but up against the Yugo, the voile, and the theory was that somehow the pigeons asked would suck the plague poison into the bird and kill it. And let you live, and you just keep doing that pigeon after pigeon until one of the pigeons didn't die. And that's how you knew right? No, more poisoning your body. Oh my God. The treatment very bad carrying plague very good at killing Pige pigeons started in the seventeenth century when the play would break out again plague doctors decided that in addition to not have any good ideas about how to treat patients. They would also address up and look scary shit. They started address up what's come to be known as a plague doctor costume if you want to if you will this. You'll know exactly on talking. It's a plague doctor is this look is mostly associated with evil insane. Bird looking mask, very steam punk looked to it has a very steam punk look to it. Dr started wearing these strange bird like massively, huge beaks th that were built to limit their their ability to smell the dead and the dine right there were so obsessed with smells these long beaks on the mass had a purpose you'd fill them with herbs. So the Iran would keep it from smelling the play and then the mascot even weirder quickly. When people kept getting sick despite the mask, they thought maybe looking directly at the plague victim could give you the plate. So they started adding red crystal kind of pieces to prevent getting a solid look at plague victims, that's like thinking you can't get aids. If you wear sunglasses this brow. Forget about condoms, ma'am. Plumbing, fucking Ray bans, bro. Probably's? Ray bans? You rod Doggett whoever you want. You don't you won't get you don't even get anybody pregnant if you don't wanna get someone pregnant row some hot on his under balls. You put on a rubber Raymond's resum hot on your on your balls. Before you head out and y'all fucking good to go. Trust me, bro. I'm Dr play. Doctors would also commonly carry a cane to examine indirect patients without the need to make contact with the patient that where these long black robes have like blonde, black gloves cover, all they're exposed skin. They'll like monsters, they look like post apocalyptic grim grim reaper esque weird bird monsters. As as all of these insane. Cure attempts continued to fail in the diseases continue to kill an unprecedent number of people. In your fear. Grew paranoia, followed. As often does, you know, people started looking for someone to blame. It was got angry at them is that why this was happening some pointed corruption, the church other said, the God's anger came as a result of divisiveness within Christian Europe, you know, too, many countries fighting each other and God's mad about it. The plague was seen as a great leveler vehicle to restore peace between nations. Right. God's wrath would purge Europe of its evil warring ways. Others came to believe that the play was God's punishment for for the Christians not continuing to pursue the crusades. God was angry at them for not destroying enough Muslims, and then came along the most popular idea for why the play was happening. Why was the black death ravaging Christian Europe? Well, because they'd allowed the Christ killing Jewish people to live in their midst. Yup. The Jewish people how many times have they got fucked over in various European sucks time. And time and time again sucks to be the religious minority in a land full of the religious majority. When your religion is tightly linked to killing the other religions profit that dynamic has really not worked out for the Jewish people over and over again, this idea quickly gained widespread acceptance and many communities throughout Christian Europe, and they felt like the formula for saving wants community from the plague lay in either converting exiling or just flat out murdering their Jewish populations from thirty forty nine until about thirteen ninety Jewish communities of France, Germany and England almost disappeared completely virtually totally wiped out and thirteen fifty Frankfurt had over nineteen hundred nineteen thousand skews me Jewish people by fourteen hundred roughly ten were left. Fuck men Strasbourg and thirty and forty nine saw most of its us population. Either burned to death or forcibly converted the following is an excerpt from the Strasbourg chronicle, which said onset on Saturday that was Saint Valentine's. Day. They burnt the Jews on a wooden platform in their cemetery. There were about two thousand of them those who wanted to baptized the baptized themselves were spared, thus we're the Jews burnt Strasbourg and in the same year in all the cities of the Rhine. In some towns, they burnt the Jews after trial and others without a trial and subsidies, the Jews themselves set fire to their houses and cremated themselves. Not sure what the last part. I highly doubt. They started set themselves on fire to beat the Christians to the punch. I maybe they'll maybe they're like aren't fucking kill ourselves. So you don't kill us in the worst way the three thousand strong Jewish population of Mainz initially defended themselves manage to hold off their Christian attackers. But the Christians manage to overwhelm the Jewish ghetto in the end and killed most of the Jewish people there. My God, man. How terrible is that? You're already worried about the plague right? You're already Justice susceptible to as every other human is in Europe to get in. These extremely painful, plague wells and dying quickly you're already hoping this mysterious pestilent. You don't know anything about either doesn't strike you dead at dinner leave you dead by breakfast. And now, you have a bunch of crazy assholes convinced that you are the reason the diseases killing everyone and now angry mobs or forming and coming for you and burning you alive, and you can't talk them out of killing you because they think they're following God's. Will. You cannot reason with the maniac dad delusional religious zealots or some of the scariest people on earth to me. Right. Because there's no logic there. Once they think, it's God's will your fucking. Over if they think that, you know, killing us God's plan. Man, killing someone just because they worship a different God than you do right? They haven't raped anyone having molested anybody haven't killed. It's just a different type of faith. And then you burn them alive. What a terribly ignorant mentality and sadly still around salaries still around like anyone who thinks that you know, we just like nuke North Korea nuke Syria nuke Afghanistan same mentality. Those medieval dummies, right? Those people are different for me. Now like it kill them. All -gratulations, your the piece of shit take out the Taliban or take out some horrific Taliban regime. Yeah. All four it kill everyone know, the kind of person who thinks that you know, that's the answer is the kind of person who had been the first in line to burn down these Jewish communities. Christian despised you for the lack of conviction and Jesus Christ official church policy in Europe at the time was to protect us because Jesus was born into Jewish Raisch race. But in reality there were continual targets of Christian loathing as the play starts across Europe in the mid fourteenth century annihilating, nearly half the population, the Jewish people became scapegoat number one accusation spread that the Jews actively caused a disease by deliberately poisoning wells, and other propaganda part of the persecution came from Jewish communities. Not seeming to be hit as hard by the plagues other communities, and there may be truth to that that they weren't his heart because they they had different sanitary practices Jewish law. Compels wanted to wash his or her hands many times out today. This was was not the norm for everyone. In medieval Europe, a Christian peasant might go half their life without washing their hands. According to Jewish law. One could not eat food with that washing. One's hands leaving the bathroom, and after any sort of intimate human contact also at least once a week ju- Jewish person would would bays for the Sabah. Both Christian peasants might go months or longer in between baths. Furthermore, Jewish law prevents the Jewish people from reciting blessings and same prayers by an open pit latrines at places of with a foul. Order the sanitary conditions in the Jewish neighborhood primitive is they might be by today's standards were far superior to general sanitary conditions of the day. So crazy man being cleaner. May have spared them from the plague and then being saved from the plague aroused suspicion, enraged other. Medieval people who then burn them to death Faulk? We meet sacs can be so incredibly dumb. And and speaking of dumb. Let's check in with some dumb. Lot of dumb on today's especially dumb idiots of the internet. The injured that. There's a great YouTube video out there, titled why do people hate the Jews posted by someone named Mr. beat teacher almost three million views in less than a year thirty thousand likes seventeen thousand dislikes that seventy thousand dislikes concerning as you'll understand here soon. This youtuber known as Mr. beat a man who post new history video every week on YouTube. I like it opens this video by showing clips of popular antisemitic videos online, then he asked a bunch of colleagues who are fellow teachers he's a high school social studies teacher who the most persecuted group of people in in histories almost every colleague colleagues. Use me says the Jewish people even though they make far less than one percent of the world's population. They have been targeted more often than any other ethnic group when it comes to persecution death, Mr. beat then asked why he thinks Jewish people are so often persecuted one colleague talks about how when times get tough, historically, people want a scapegoat. And they tend to blame those. They don't understand and most Christians don't understand Judy. Then Mr. beat defines Jewish people are both ethnically and culturally, then covers variety of medieval laws passed against the Jewish people. They couldn't marry Christians. They couldn't hold certain jobs that couldn't post various positions are couldn't hold various positions in government. Couldn't be witnesses and court propaganda was circulated the horns tails, and they killed Christian babies, and you know, would eat Kirsten children and satanic sacrifices. He talks about various attacks on Jewish people about how Jewish people displacing Palestinians after World War Two just and on and on just gives a general historical lesson about who the Jewish people are what has happened to them. Why are the people have historically gotten very angry towards them? And he ends it with a warning that anti-semitism still exists, and it's up to us to end it, and anyone who doesn't think that anti semitism is alive. And well needs to read the comments below this video fucking so's. He gives us great PSA about like, hey, historically, this shit for sure happened. And it's terrible. We shouldn't do it anymore. And then you get common. From anti-semites Kevin after and others who post off like, so basically, you just repeated what the Jews claim and completely ignored their opponents are saying nice biased job. Hope you were paid. Well, you fucking idiot. Kevin you cartoonish stereotype of a human being a spelled paid wrong, by the way, like most fucking idiots do here in these comments. If you look at the idiotic comments compared to non idiot comments the spelling fucking way worth on the idiotic ones. It's P A I D, not P A Y E D, if you really truly think that some group of Jewish leaders have bribed this high school social studies teacher to make a pro Jewish people propaganda. Video throw yourself off the tallest building. You can fucking find before you. Fuck more idiots into this world at or at least have the humanity indecency to cut your dick off science finds God posts, I think we hate anybody who teaches that they are inherently more important than any other people. Rumble push. Then post no wonder so many people hate America of that was gonna clever if you didn't take that attitude and Jolie post. Well, I'm sorry. But as ju I never felt or said, I was better than anyone based on my Mississippi. What you're saying sounds like an excuse to hate Jews. And then I posted can help myself time. So do you I posted to science fines got ta I posted at sci-fi. God, do you hate all religious people since basically every religion teaches as followers that? They are the only one to know the real truth or you antisemitic just wondering how even handed you are with your ignorance, and then he replies to me. I don't hate people. And I replied to him quote. I think we hate anybody. And quote, you realize when we say, quote, we that includes you write nothing so far on that one. I think I don't think that the whatever troll somewhere else Jewish poster Pokemon Red Sox come has some fun with the hate writing. So I was raised as a Jew, and I always wondered am I. Just not Jewish enough. I hear all this conspiracy stuff about the Jews. But I'm personally not part of the conspiracy. I'm extremely sad. And I hope I get my invite one of their meetings soon. Love the sarcasm love it user, Shash replies. Same here. I think we're diluting the stats. I'm not rich, nor do I have any connections at the top. Please invite me when you're in. Sincerely, broke you of it fellow Jewish poster Joakim sunbird posts. Did you not get the invite sorry about that? We are weakening some currencies and shit next week. If you want tag along an idiot, one Patel post is because you're not even conscious that you were already preprogrammed in hard wired shut the fuck up one preprogramed, I know many poor Jewish people broke s Jewish comedians struggling Jewish actors. There's no secret club. There's no see recover. They're not getting they weren't getting any more than I was. There's no secret club where they get all the money you dumb. Fuck. Jag knows. What's up posting this? Comment section just supports this notion. Referring, of course, to the notion of anti-semitism still being alive, and well, and then Daniel g pretends to be a free thinker. But it's really just another dumb shit races writing to learn who rules over you. Simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize that quote comes up over and over and over whenever somebody on the web is like, hey, man. Take it easy on the fuck and juice us. Let's ease up on the Jewish people. They have suffered quite enough over ignorance, and then they act like well, fuck, okay. Whoever we're told we can't attack. They're the real problem. This quote, often attributed to the French historian, and philosopher Voltaire, no it was written by Kevin Alfred strong a piece of human fucking garbage, a white nationalist, new Nazi holocaust denier. Who's Fred a lot of propaganda? Just a piece of shit who pled guilty to possessing kiddie porn in two thousand eight it's his quote, Calvin Winstead post more racism, saying Jews are like a girl with one hundred nine. Nine failed relationships, but somehow convinced herself that it's all their fault eleven hundred likes no dislikes user, first name gets the logic fallacy understands it actually posting more like a guy who has had one hundred nine failed relationships that all come from the same man-hating sorority exactly the Jews have been hated time and time again now because they're making terrible terrible decisions time and time again they've just distorted continually been surrounded over and over again by members of another larger religion who conveniently make them into scapegoats all the fucking time. That's why of finally users zero limits posts someone burned this common thread to the ground. And then Mr. beat himself, the poster of the video posts on leaving it up for the FBI Levitt, Mr. baked keep fighting the good fight, man. Anti-semitism live well in the whip maybe some of the posters, young trolls. But. Not all of them. I think Jewish hate is still incredibly common in strong, one of the many reasons why history is so important. Gotta remind ourselves. What can happen when he gets out of hand. Learn how patterns repeat themselves help understanding that we shouldn't tolerate ignorance now man aiders is not just frustrating. It's dangerous fuck ignorant people sled away too many innocent deaths over and over again as a nonreligious person. I've talked a quite often about how I love my Christian listeners been reminded that by their messages over and over one remind my Jewishness is love you meet sacks to fucking same meets actinium star for all the fucker. We've had to deal with can we start considering having an IQ test. You have to pass before you're allowed to have kids place. Can we can we at least put it on the voting table, right? If you don't pass it and questionnaires you get your reproductive, reproductive organs. Removed of the someday we can weed out the idiots and someday never have another idiots of the internet comments section to even refer to. The internet. Start kind of Babylon on their little little bit yet gala worked up before we move on to discuss and a few of the plague outbreaks and how the black death effects. How today let's look at a group of Europeans who did not play in the Jewish people. But we're just as insane. As those who did some people blame themselves for the black death, and none more dramatically than the flagellants, these wacky doodles or something else. The flagellants were religious zealots who demonstrated their religious fervor and saw atonement for their sins by vigorously whipping themselves and each other in public displays of penance. And times of crisis. Really got these nuts. Two weapon. They kicked the whip up. Big time plague motivated, thousands of them to take the streets start whipping the shit out of selves women themselves into bloody messes and various town squares around Europe. Members of the movement known in Germany as the brethren of the cross roamed central and eastern Europe during the black death, the self punishment on a personal level was supposed to bring one closer to Christ experience at the hands of the Romans and on a community level. Self-flagellation was believed to force others. Take Harlem themselves look at their own sins. Pope Clement the six quickly condemned him as being heretical of. But that didn't stop them from whipping their way across Europe the following description. The flagellants comes to us from Sara Gilbert of Aves berry who witnessed their ritual and England in that same year thirteen forty nine about Michael massive timber. Twenty twenty-ninth over six hundred men came to London from Flanders mostly of Zeeland, and Holland origin. Sometimes at Saint Paul's and sometimes at other points in the city, they made to daily public appearances wearing claw. From the thighs to the ankles. But otherwise stripped bare each will recap mocked with the Red Cross in front and behind each hat in his right hand to scourge with three tales. So just a whip with three little tails each tale had a not in through the middle of it with sometime shop nails, they marched naked in a file one behind the other and whipped themselves with these scourges on the naked and bleeding bodies, four of them would chant in the native tongue in another fall would chanted response like litany thrice. They would all cast themselves upon the ground in this sorts of possession stretching out their hands like the arms of across the singing would go on and the one who was in the rear of us prostrate acting. I each of them in turn step over the others and give one stroke with his scourge to the man line beneath him this went on from the first to the last until each of them had observed the ritual to the full tale of those on the ground, then each put on his customary garments and always wearing the cap some carrying their whips and the hand they retired. To their lodgings. It is said that every night they performed the same penance man crazy singing some songs whipping, the shit out of each other place people left, and right doctors and making it worse for telling you to drink passer rubbing shit wounds. And now you've got these maniacs hanging out around the town square. Just whip themselves into a bloody mess dark days. Man, strange times must've felt like the end was near when anyone tells when went tells you the world has gone to hell and things are are worse now than ever they do not know what the fuck they are talking about. They are not students of history. Khalili think of the plague none of us alive. Now have ever seen anything remotely this horrible? Remember that time when when when half of everyone around you at least half either recently dead or currently dine member when the stench of rotting flesh permeated the air, you never got away from it. And then a bunch of dudes were burning down the Jewish part of town. And then there was a bunch of other dudes whipping ever living shit out of each other while sing and fucking whipping each other songs, that's how. Miller now than your life's probably hell of a lot better than the lies. These sat assholes before researching the black death this week. I thought it was the first and only widespread outbreak of Vanek plague. Nope, European experience at least once before third of the population of Athens died at four thirty BC in the plague of Athens, this most likely was not plague based on reporter symtas, but could have been the plague of gallon killed up to five million people mostly in the Roman empire from one sixty five to two one eighty emo-. Scholars thing this pandemic with smallpox the plague of Syrian effected the Roman empire from two forty nine two to sixty to see too high. The outbreak five thousand people day were said to be dying in Rome. This may have been out. The bubonic plague eater some story in sync. It was smallpox or measles. Others. Some other virus the sixth century based on bone samples from those who died in the description those who suffered necrosis at the hands being a symptom. We know that Europe did get hit by the plague it. It was the Justin Ian plague. The first major plague outbreak to hit Europe as far as you know, this this this bacteria occurred during the reign of Roman emperor Justinian, the I who ruled from five twenty seven to five sixty five CE consider the first pandemic of any kind and recorded history because it swept across three continents. The plague arrived at Constantinople in five forty to see almost a year after the disease. First minutes appearance in the outer provinces of the Roman empire continued to sweep throughout the Mediterranean world for another two hundred twenty five years finally disappeared in seven fifty CE only to reappear in the fourteenth centuries, the black death. When this plague hit Constantinople killed five thousand people to date. It's height killed over three hundred thousand people there in the first year that said he'd been hit real hard. Couple of times became more and more difficult for families to bury their dead tombs filled up quickly trenches were drug. Doug bodies were given mass burials some of the buys loaded into death boats taken out to sea dumped overboard only to wash back onto shore later. My other bodies were dumped into forty. Towers, and then filled up, and then they were closed when the when the bodies reached the top just big big grain silos, but filled with rotting bodies of the dead things. Got so bad that citizens began to carry name tags on them wherever they went. So their families would know what happened to them if they suddenly died of the plague the plague hit just ends empire killed off more than just people it destroyed the economy farmers were wiped out leaving the farmlands to fall into weeds bakers died off breads became scarce sellers at the marketplace, either died from the plague became too scared to go outdoors. Whether you might catch the plague, and so basically trade came to a complete standstill and now many people not died of the plague are starving to death because they're not getting food from the people. They depended on to feed them, you know, with an epidemic and his nature. There are so many indirect deaths. Justin's plague affected nearly half the population of Europe after the black death plague outbreaks would occur every decade or few decades in this city or that for centuries nothing again on a continental scale. But there was a huge outbreak that hit London and. Sixty five London had an especially hot summer in sixteen sixty five city become grossly overcrowded its population. Exploded many were living in squalor or poverty between four hundred fifty thousand six hundred thousand people lived in London. And the plague would kill one hundred thousand of those people in just eighteen months giving the next biggest English city at the time was Norwich with around thirty thousand people. So I mean, the disparity there thirty thousand compared to about six hundred thousand I mean, obviously England was not ready to have a city the size of London in the mid seventeenth century. They didn't know how to manage that many people. They didn't have a proper urban sanitation department. The only way people had to get rid of rubbish. Then was to throw it out into the streets. This included normal household waste as well including their shit and piss London was fucking filthy when the plane hit extremely overcrowded. Perfect breeding ground for those rats, and you know. I was thinking this you know, that when people are just flinging piss and shit out of their windows into the street. I mean, that's what they would do. Unisom teenage miscreants had to have at least tried to dump it on some people walking by outed on that, you know, just data dead. Kills trying pizza shots on the business. People walking by throw it on the street. Like, a good lad. Yes, ma'am. Komo miss the Dhabi. Ill is awkward around this time with your smug grin and you'll fancy Porsche niggers. It you like nicotine covered in my shit of pushed out two special one for you today. I did a little extra beans last night. They extra porridge swatting held it as long as I could miss Dahbi drank water. So it'd be thicker on knock your divvy hats off your head with my Brown, cannonball small, and I will miss to dial the another here you go catch. Mr. the good luck. Getting that swell at the O'Hare you bloody wanka. The most crowded neighborhoods. We're of course, the poorest place truck. I ain't that a bitch already poor living in the squalor, an a lethal disease tears to your city your greatest risk to die once a disease too cold. It's frightening. Frightening speed the wealthy left London or the comparative safety of the countryside. The poor not allowed to leave London. Economically, many had to stay in the slums. And then when the plague really got going soldiers actually force them to stay in their neighborhoods. Militiamen were paid by the city's council to guard parish boundaries. Not let anyone out. Wants to play these slumps authorities too drastic measures to ensure that the plague didn't spread they still understand how the disease was spread. But they did know when one person showed up other six people followed. So now in one family member had a member infected by the plague they started being locked in their home for forty days and nights, they'll Corentin if you didn't have enough food in their couldn't pay for food, and they're tough shit. You're now you're gonna starve to death man, Londoners were also paid to kill dogs and cats assumed that they were spreading the disease the approaching winter halted the spread disease as the weather took his toll on rats and fleas, however, though the worst of the plagued pass by the end of sixteen sixty five then the great fire of London hit the city second tragedy in two years, the fire devastated, the filthy city areas, where rats it prospered. The fire. Consumed over thirteen thousand houses over eighty seven churches, Saint Paul's cathedral, most of the buildings of the city. Authorities is estimated to have officially destroyed the homes of seventy thousand of the city's eighty thousand. You know, homes are wait. Sorry that number just didn't seem right to the numbers. But it destroyed a overwhelming majority of the city officially only six people died in this fire. But that's because only the death of the poor were never recorded. Excuse me, only the rich or recorded more realistically several thousand people burned. I played kills a couple of family members identify ever down your whole neighborhood. But you really wanted to throw some shit somebody after that method Daba tight this. They rebuilt London. And now is more spacious and open afterwards. And so it would never be hit by a pandemic the same way again. So, you know, for the people who lived he got a little better eighteen fifty-five. A new plague pandemic Indian China over twelve million with die the outbreak there the outbreak. There wasn't finally over until nineteen sixty took until nineteen sixty for the yearly death toll to fall below two hundred a year since then a few people died every year, including right here in the US due to the plague. Luckily occurrences are rare antibiotics greatly reduced the mortality. Rate of some new plague mutation that doesn't give it about antibiotics. Come through comes through again are were to come through get out. Get out of the cities don't come Idaho, though, defeats the purpose. If you make it crowded here to did anything good come out of the play. Yes. Actually, there was more work to go around for survivors of the plague subsequently thanks to natural supply and demand economics peasants who survived. The black death made a bit more money on the other side lived in less cramped conditions. The culture of the English pub can be traced back directly to the black death. According to one historian, professor Robert from Cambridge University says that wages rose prices fell. Following the plague allowing worker people easier access to beer pubs sprang up to accommodate the demands, sparking English pub culture brewers could now operate full-time. Thanks to greet him greater freedom and prosperity for the working class in the wake of the black death. It also made prevented the Vikings some settling North America. The history of North America may have looked different if the black death never happened. Viking settlers in green. Island all but completely died out due to the plague. So they were never never able to get a foothold on mainland North American properly settled a place. Norway was feeble by the plague as well. So it couldn't get supplies to the settlements in Greenland things out so bad that Greenland had to be rediscovered in fifteen eighty five for the Jewish. People did not help at all antisemitic violence brought on by the plague never completely left Europe after the black death Germans in particular, kill Jewish communities and riots following the black death nurturing culture of anti-semitism, and ultimately led the holocaust and the twentieth century a study in two thousand eleven showed that villages where black Dez era pogroms took place were more likely to demonstrate a violent hatred of Jewish people more than six hundred years later. So there it is the black death. The plague doesn't sound fun. Does he get much more? What's worse than that? For me. Again in this episode. Just a reminder of how good we have it now comparatively. How lucky we are to live in modern times. Just like none of us asked to borne. Now, none of those peasants Ashby born then. Ma'am, be glad you have the opportunities. Now that you do no matter how rough things are for you. And I'll likely much rougher if you lived in fourteenth century Europe, even even when there wasn't a plague outbreak. So let's take let's take a look, let's take a look four more times back. Is that sense? You say it, let's take a look let's look back for more times. That's how you speak. I thought you supposed to speak in English. And then this look at one new thing a very interesting thing. I think in today's top five takeaways time. By the way. Number one, the black death. The worst outbreak of the plague bacteria in recorded history began in the spring of thirteen forty sixty near the Caspian Sea by thirty and forty eight ravaging all of Europe by thirteen fifty two. It was basically done and killed anywhere. From twenty five to seventy five million European meets X number two. The play counseling a little ole your siniya pestis bacteria, and that bacteria loves fleas, and rats and people and then at attacks your lymph nodes immune system outpost destroys them like a siege. In army destroying the walls of the city. Replicates your lymph node swell as they are attacked, the bacteria continues to replicate and makes it to your lungs and other organs the presence of so many bacteria in your bloodstream causes your immune system to freak the fuck out. Triggering septic shock, your body's blood vessels began leaking decreasing blood volume. This leads to abnormal cloudy, multiple organ failure. And you died quickly and painfully from the plague number three speaking of a siege. Army the plague dramatically entered Europe via attributing. Plague infected corpses catapulted over the city walls of kaffa like something out of a Monty python sketch. I was for an entrance fire the Greg load. The Chuck aim the Chuck file the Chuck number four the plague didn't just hit Europe in the fourteenth century. See also, devastated Africa and Asia knocked populations back so deeply take two centuries for the world fully recover, number five new info, the ring around the Rosie nursery rhyme a song, you probably know very well probably saying it as a kid. I did comes from the plague according to many the classic rhyme ring around the Rosie may originate from the play full disclosure. The jury is still out on this one from what I can tell it seems like about half of historians and folklorist think that this rhyme has to do with the plague and they have a ton of other possibilities too boring and very dimension here. And frankly, none of them sounded that real to me or likely the other half do seem to agree that the the rhyme does originate with the plague the most popular. Version of the rhyme at least in modern day, America goes like this ring around the rosy pocket full of posies ashes ashes we all fall down. I remember thinking that Donald McGrath, Betty when I was little planet in the art like three or four little and then dropped my but on the on the ground and just giggling, my last off turns out, it's not a real funny. Diddy ring around a rosy may refer to swollen lymph nodes with the red rosy rash around them one of the symptoms, as you know of the plague pocketful of posies may refer to the posies verbs little small bundles of herbs and flowers that were carried around by those still not ill to ward off the smell bodies in the homes. The dead were burned to try and rid the streets of the infection. Hence the line ashes ashes or in the British version of the rhyme. You'll British version that line would read a Choo Choo which could refer to the sneezing and coffee, and it was one of the final symptoms of pneumonic form of the Z's. You know, the worst version of how it spread. The apocalyptic nature of the plague is felt in the final line. We all fall down representing people just literally dropping dead from the plague time. By away. The black death has been sucked. Boob on a plague. It's been sucked few place. You sucked preview the times, man. I live in so much more right now. So my doctors and where scary ass double bird mask. So glad is one to rub shit my wounds or have you drink pays Remmy, stick a fucking Pige to my arm. Some glad I'm not watching half. Or more of everyone of ever known died a matter of weeks. Happy to not watch maniacs whip themselves in the town square. Actually, wait, I'm gonna stop there. The last thing would be some a plus top shelf people watching whenever they think about it. I would not mind watching maniacs whip themselves and sing songs and step over each other in a town square that actually be just grab a coffee. You know, sitting on the bench and just kind of enjoy the show. Thank you to the time. So team. Thank you to you listeners for listening to another episode. Thanks time suckers in space. There's thanks also to queens, suck Lindsey Cummins high priestess, the suck harmony village camp Jesse guarding of grammar dove. New Reverend Dr Joe paisley time suck high priest Alex Dugan. The guys Biddle xer danger brain axes, apparel, Heather knowledge ninja Rylander. Thanks for the fine research to get me started today have you joined the cult of the curious private Facebook group, yet almost seven thousand times suckers in space lizards in the private culture. Curious group on Facebook almost fifteen hundred discord members now linked to the discord chatroom messaging app right in the app. The time so gap linked to the private Facebook group and to the discord channel in today's episode description. Next week. We're going to be sucking the Black Panthers. The Black Panthers aka the Black Panther political party, a political organization founded nineteen sixty six by Huey Newton. And Bobby Seale always been so curious about this group originally named the Black Panther party for self defense. It was formed to challenge police brutality against the African American community would dress in black berets black leather jackets look coolest shit. The Black Panthers organized armed citizen patrols in Oakland. And other US cities at his peak in nineteen sixty eight the Black Panther party had roughly two thousand members and then the organization began to decline as a result of internal disputes and tensions deadly shootouts with authorities FBI counter intelligent intelligence activities aimed at weakening the organization, and frankly, the criminal activity is some of its members. The Black Panthers were found in the wake of the mouth, and Malcolm X assassination. I gotta talk about him, and that sucks. Well, the Black Panther started out. They did start skews me a number of popular social community programs, including free breath. I programs for school children and free health clinics and thirteen African American communities across US. The Black Panthers were involved in numerous violent encounters with police nine hundred sixty seven founders Huey Newton allegedly killed Oakland police officer John fray, convicted of voluntary manslaughter in sixty eight cents to to to fifteen years in prison, and then an appellate court later reversed the conviction there were definitely also targeted by authorities nineteen-sixty h icago police gunned down and kill Black Panther party members. Fred Hampton and Mark Clark who sleep in their apartments about one hundred bullets were fired. And what police would describe as a fierce gunbattle, however, blissed ballistics experts later determined only one of those bullets came from the Panthers side, they'll although the FBI was responsible for leading that raid. Federal grand jury later indicted the bureau for playing significant role and events leading up to the raid. The new Black Panther party is a black nationalist organization. Founded in Dallas, Texas members of the original Black Panther party say there's no relation between the new and the original Black Panthers and the southern poverty Law Center have. New Black Panther party a hate group. So it's going to be interesting to see how this group is evolved. Talk about some of the most notorious or infamous or inspirational members, and again heard of this group for a long time know so little about them Black Panthers. Next week time sucker updates right now. In time Senator up day. Starting off with the message that made me laugh so hard from Samuel FOSS. Not Samuel writes. Dear suck Laura. I just wanted to say fuck you. I was listening to the Cleopatras suck and fell for your insane tale of how encore came from two camels fucking girl. The worst part is is that I'm a truck driver left. My truck before you said it was all fake. So. So went into my pickup. Bill started telling everyone I saw about where encore came from. Now, I have to go into Morrow and rectify the situation and hope they don't mock me for it. Anyway, keep up the good work once again, fuck you. You're humble meet Zach Samuels, not thank you Samuel for sharing that thanks for the pronunciation guide your last name is. Well, my God, dude. I love that. You just went in there guys listen up. I gotta talk about encore. Do you know start from an orgy Cleopatra's watch these Campbell's? Fuck this lady. Candidy light days like more more of that. Sure when you left there like the fuck was Sam talking about there's no way. That's what that means. Even funnier. If you never see some of them again at some of them do believe you and they share that with others. Thanks for being a good sport and drive safe. Samuel. Mosman update coming in from ginger Johnson, ginger writes, all my God Mothman, I have a long story to tell you about my experience this creature, but I won't go into it. Now, I just want to inform you that. I have a letter from us man alas, I can't find it. I have about a dozen boxes of books and sin one of them. But we'll take some time to find it. Seriously. My uncle introduced me to the Mothman prophecies book, then terrorized me about him when I was thirteen. The letter is cut out letters from Zine. It says Mothman is watching you it came in the mail with no return address. I will find it eventually. But for now, I just wanted to let you know, if there are any time slackers who live in New Hampshire and want to help me come go through my books. They're welcome to help me ginger, your uncle sounds, amazing ginger, that's dedication to fuck with your niece that he sent you. Some anonymous mauvaise matter you want some help finding that letter hop into the colts curious group on Facebook ask around. I'm sure there's some other New England times nearby. Come help you out. Plague update already coming in even though it was just on the episode from Zach Doolan Zack has a personal plague or enrolled in when he found out about this episodes topic. He goes the time I almost got plaguing Idaho. During the summer of two thousand sixteen I served as a biologic biology aid for the Idaho department officiant game in the treasure valley of Idaho near Boise this summer resulted in a massive die off in the rodent populations in the desert and valley land, south of Boise. A why he county we determine that? It was an outbreak of plague in ground, squirrels, voles whistle. Pigs it cetera. We'd quo the general population fear that comes with saying that there is plague near the largest urban centre in the state every day. We had dozens of calls reporting fields of dead rodents and had people burning us bags with dead road or burning had people bringing us bags of dead rodents to our lab protocol dictated that the spleens be removed from the dead animals and shipped to the Orissa Wisconsin to process and determined to specimen, wasn't fact infected or not so. Oh for good, two months. My days were spent telling people to avoid did rodents and to keep dogs cats and children away as well as dissecting little Varman to get their splaine's on my God one afternoon, we were going about a normal business when our team vet was second volt little mouse like creature out of nowhere. All we hear is screaming from the lab and him running out yelling. Where's the bug spray over and over? Again, we thought there was a wasp for spider Roanoke, re clues opening some eyelids snuck up on him and scared him. Nope. Turned out to vote. He was operating was covered in fleas. It looked like it's for was moving. He was so ridden and with the host dead. The fleas were spreading around the lab. Looking for a new host? I e us so now we have a landfill of potentially plague-ridden fleas as we all scramble sprain. The facility down trying to kill a little buggers and rubbing alcohol bleach and a single bottle of wasp. Ray you could have had the Benny hill theme song plane in the scene would have been perfect but Pap Pap on bomb. Took us two hours to make sure the lab was flee from bugs. But it took us another five hours to stop itching from just thinking about fleece and note, we burn the vul- had to fleas the head of flee to keep us from having to risk exposure. So we have no idea if he's positive or not at his nuts. Plague almost broke out in Idaho. Sure, we have antibiotics by that doesn't help you. If you're almost dead by the time, you get the doctors and whistle pig without a big. There's a whiskey called whistle pig. I can't find an animal called was Wilby. Is it just a pig? Whistles out in the woods, please. That'll be that. I wish appeared, but we're north they'll do a little wizard. You Lou, where's the pig? Gator was big. I don't know. Maybe he'll Nimrod fellow Idaho on that Benny hill music. I don't know if you know this I can play that on the air banjo. I just took an a-hole air banjo kademi just now, I actually you don't even know it looks like I kept talking I paused went out for an air banjo lesson. And now, I can do the Benny hill, but they pertain bang bang, bang panel tone, thank Dame thing. But the thank thank brain to contain pink pink pink pink, plank prank, but ping, ping, ping, ping, ping ticket tank on tank tongue. Thank they down by them. But the town downtime Franken tainting meld it fucking it. Got it felt good. Church update coming in pastor, Mike Moffitt, love it. He says, hey, Dan, pastor Mike from Tacoma, again, still claiming to be your biggest churchgoing fan of a maintenance. Hell you that earlier in January part of your story in bonus episode ten inspired the heart of my sermon that week my title was perplexity inquiry and clarity. And I spoke about the role of curiosity in the life of faith as I get a kick out of knowing that you played a part in the pulpit. Bill figure hope- see next time. You're in town, Mike, I love Mike love it. You got the ones who God hope his buys me a little bit of divine forgiveness. But seriously, though, I think it's very cool view. Now be afraid to take the logical inspiration from non theological sources. You sound. Like a fantastic meet sack. Pastor see you into coma pastor, Mike. And now a heavy file message coming in from one full Canadian meat sack. Adam seltzer. Adam wrote suck master. I am writing this letter because I think person deserves to know if they made an impact on the world around them timeline after time line is taught us both that the reality is our world. Can sometimes be terrible scary unfair place without warning you can quickly find yourself ready and some very deep water. I've learned that in those big moments. It can be the small things that you cling to keep going since sharp turns like this can happen in anyone's life anytime. I think of someone I think if some something you've done has made someone else's life a little as dark and a little less scary. You deserve to know. If I don't tell you, you'll never know. So strap on your boot soldier we're March not a quick and dirty time. Suck time line doesn't really matter who I am. And it doesn't matter where I live. I'm just a regular guy with a regular life of bumming around for thirty seven years in that time, I've managed to get some education meet a girl get married buy a house and be a normal human being there was nothing special about me. What does matter is that I have a son named Jacob tak- was born may. Twenty eighth two thousand eighteen at eight thirty five PM. He's a happy little guy with great big cheeks and fat little hands. He loves balloons hates it. When people sneeze and doesn't give a shit about the rules. He does whatever you likes whenever he wants. He's perfect. When Jacob was only five months old some random doctor that I had never seen before walked up to me and threw a hammer through my simple little life. I have a career hobbies goals. Friends all the same things everyone. You know has an all fell away in an instant when I was left with one singular. Immutable. Fact, my five month old son has cancer. There was no accurate way to describe what happens in your life, and in your mind when a thing like that makes it's entrance. When your kid is sick. Like really sick everything else stops, you sit back and watch this horrible thing. Steamroll you you're nice little organiz life, and you could do nothing to stop it doctors you've never met walk in and take over everything. And all you can do is sit in hope that they really are skilled in his practices. They say they are. And that they really can't do what they say. They can do what you need them to do. All you want to do is take this whole. Thing and rip it out of your child's life. But that is the one thing you can't do as my independent research has confirmed no amount of bargaining or panic fleeting will change his shit state of affairs. You are now just along for the ride you exit your life and abandoned, whatever bullshit priorities, you thought you had spent everyday sitting next to your child watching them fight an awful thing. The scares you both you can't do it for them. But you can't do it. But you can't do it with them. So we do me and my wife and Jacob we fight. Like anyone would there are good days? And there are bad day some days, he's just a happy little boy who likes to roll on the living room floor and drool on things to claim his ownership and some days the treatment and the drugs take their toll on him. And he really struggles when he has difficulty sleeping. I do what sounds of others have done before me. I take Jacob for a drive quite often. In the little quiet town. We live on the only idiot circle in the streets. Driving in my pajamas. Serpent coffee and doing laps around town. We'll drive for hours with no destination. So that Jacob can finally sleep because sleeping while driving is prohibited in my area. I do what any rational curious info hungry person would do in my situation situation. I listen to time suck Jake. And I started episode one slow you're climbing way to the top time. Suckers is what we do together. I have no idea. How many times I've listened to doc? Holliday suck. It's flawless. Your dot com. Today impression is a triumph Jacobs asleep, which helps them stay in the fight and times it pulls me out of my life. Just long enough to my for my brain to reset for just an hour at a time. There was no cancer. There is no hospital. There is no drugs or needles or blood counts for viruses or specialists or any of it. There was just me and my son out for Dr. How? May I can't finish. I can't finish your message. Man your show. What you do is helped me the hardest time my life every time. I listened. Yeah. Things a little easier for a little while for whatever that is worth to you. Thank you very much. He'll Nimrod Adam seltzer from somewhere in Canada, man. Adam annot, let that a chunk here. Jesus had had her crown. I read that message. So we can help with some small way. Man, you sound like you sound like an amazing father hope hope Nimrod, what was your son to good health. But but you're wrong about it'd be being special. My you are supposed to be chose to send this message. That's pretty special. And if you didn't I wouldn't be donated sixteen hundred dollars an honor of union sun on behalf of this basis or patrons of this show to the cancer research institute love you man, the cancer research institute is a five a one c nonprofit organization dedicated to harnessing the human bodies immune systems power to control and potentially curl types of cancer. They fund the most innovative, clinical and laboratory research around the world support the next generation of the fields leaders and serve as a trusted source of information on immunotherapy for cancer patients and their caregivers. They've been working on cancer research since nineteen fifty three hundred million dollars raised donating to that. I feel like a dickhead for not finishing it man. It's not fair to people listening. So the part, I just skipped may seem trivial thing. But when your situation like mine, I sincerely hope you never are. You learned quickly that there are no. Israel things. Everything has wait. You learned that if the thing is noticeable to you. There was a reason the reason to near show is that a recharges my mind, so I can help my son makes me feel just normal enough. Just long enough that I can survive in a totally abnormal scenario that I was unprepared for the reason. I bothered to write you tell you any of this is that I want you to know, you're having an impact and places you've never been in the lives of people you've never met, you're making my life. Just a little less dark and a little less scary. That makes all the difference in the world to me someone I trust once told me to take every opportunity to tell the important people in my life that they are important. Why leave nothing unsaid he told me? So I have no idea for ever read this. And I have no idea what affect if any will ever have on your life. But it will it will not leave it. I will not leave it unsaid your show. What you do is helping me in the hardest time in my life. Every time. I listen thank seemed a little easier for a little while. Yeah. Man. Well, you're you're helping me, ma'am. So I'm guess I'm taking you're taking a page from your book and didn't want to leave my reply instead to you, man. So keep fighting and. That is all for today. Thanks time nine in that. We all did how great week everybody. Another secret suck on Thursday for the spaces Black Panthers on Monday. If he gets Sola lymph nodes in your hanging around a lot of rats and fleas, please go see Dr rubbing shit on those boils will not help keep on suck. Ken stuff. And wow.

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123 - Serial Killer Ed Kemper: The Co-ed Killer

Timesuck with Dan Cummins

2:07:44 hr | 1 year ago

123 - Serial Killer Ed Kemper: The Co-ed Killer

"Ed Kemper the co Ed killer a giant murderer and necrophiliac who stands six feet nine inches tall weighs around three hundred pounds. A roughly Shaquille O'Neal sized serial killer bigger than Michael Myers from the Halloween movie franchise, arguably scarier, also literally a genius a psychopath was an IQ of roughly one forty five who's able to manipulate psychiatrist at a state mental facility. He was initially held it after his first murders to being given an early release. Ed Kemper has been imprisoned since nineteen Seventy-three. He likes it in there. He has no interest in leaving or so he says he's waived his right to parole hearings since one thousand nine hundred five California inmate be five to four five three. Currently seventy years old sits in the California state medical facility today in Vacaville, roughly fifty miles northeast of the San Francisco Bay in addition to killing several family members this monster killed a lot of strangers as well, tortured and killed. Animals as a kid says he feels guilty about some of it. I'm guessing he feels guilty about none of the FBI's behavioral science unit. Behavioral science, you know, the organization that the Netflix series mind hunter is based on interviewed camper after he turned himself into authorities. And he learned a tremendous amounts about the mind of a serial killer how to track and catch future serial killers, and what red flags from someone's childhood or the could lead them to becoming a serial killer from studying Ed, the coed killer Kemper, this story is fucking bananas super super dark. One of the craziest stories I've ever looked into enter your own risk into the cold super twisted. Is so weird mind the crazy deeds of Ed Kemper today on time suck. Happy Martin Luther King junior day. Not doing a Martin Luther King junior sucked today because we already sucked him suck forty two. If you missed it like think, it was a good one. I learned a lot happy Monday time. Suckers, Reverend Dr Joe queens, suck Lindy both in the suck dungeon off. And on today. Thanks to everyone who got little time suck onesies for their for their baby. Suckers this past week little ones getting that sweet suck little suckers little ones to too little to understand the horror of so much. What I say today, the horde of Ed camper. My God fun to finally get product that a lot of people asked about for a long time. Hope you liked the design and everything I do. I think it's great and see who sucks but still may be lost camp counselor of the coach the curious hail Nimrod Hailu Safina praise bojangles. He's such a good boy. Most of the time. I write suck so often that my notes it's he suck a good boy time suck is brought to you today. Let's get to that. By the bro on podcast, bro. On bro is a new podcast. Brought to you by fellow time suckers and space lizards, Joe Demeo, and Ben Ferguson. There's nothing wrong with being a traditional dude and lichen guys stuff. But how do you learn do stuff each week Joe, and Ben will tackle a topic that they think the average guy could use some help with the show is launching this week, and they are opening with two episodes get in on the ground floor. How to talk to women how to build wealth. Did you know that women are actually people God, I hope you knew that? But maybe you don't maybe a man gave birth to you you live on some sort of men island, but can still listen to podcasts. Some dude really don't know that shit. It's not a bunch of pickup nonsense. It's more about how to talk to people just in general who doesn't want to make more money. Do you know how mortgages work you'll you'll learn how to build wealth right in an episode full of practical advice on how to. Maximize your money maximize that money you're making and you know, how to use it to build a good future. Just, you know, important information tune in to bro on each week for good formation a few laughs as Joe and Ben attempt to seek enlightenment through dead lifts. Yes. Dead. Lifts her in there. That is Manley for sure I know that even I know that seeking go to dot com. B R O A UM dot com. For more information Lincoln the episode description or push the button on the time suck web website or app for Brome. Thanks for everyone who came out to the Ted talk. I was gonna call it. Ted talk. I guess that's an important stink. Tion Ted ex. The look the same to me, whatever some kind of branding thing. I was nervous for that. Man. Holy shit. Was I nervous. I think it went. Well, I don't remember a lot of being on stage. Strange performing non comedic piece. We'll see it's a trolls Tara Tara part. My thoughts about you know, our thoughts data, I guess really all the stats. I gave consistently overly negative news new so negative. Either is or feels fake is eroding faith, not only the media, but another traditional sources of authority, like the educational system medical establishment scientific community more, you know, because faith, and all of these institutions has plummeted in recent decades that concerns me I don't wanna I don't wanna live in an idiot Crecy, basically, people are living are believing and experts less and less often, which I think yeah, really scared because when you when you don't trust experts anymore who do you trust by default you trust non experts, and they by definition or people who even fucking less than the people you already don't think. No anything. My dad, and I are actually talking about this this morning again by my uncle not going to say which side of the spectrum. He's he's on politically. But he only only believes one side of the news. He he won't. He literally will not consider any story at all from quite a few different media sources now he thinks all of it is lies like literally all of it. And he's not alone. There's a lot of people like that on both sides. They think the other side is complete. And that is just it's fucking idiotic for starters and his terrified not true. And it's terrifying. And I don't know they wanted to the talks gives me to be thought provoking. And I'd like to think that's that's what I was what I gave people seem to like it and. Yeah, man, I just, you know, I want us to live in a world where we can, you know, have critical thinking skills and be able to discern good information from bad information Bill to look at numerous sources of information before we start repeating random shit to everybody. We know as if it's, you know gospel. Fact that will be nice that would that would cut down on a lot of arguments. I think people just took more time to like, wait a minute. What am I talking about to actually know what the fuck I'm talking about am ice? Spreading fake news right now, I just repeat and some half cock shit that I read on Facebook or some dip shit YouTube troll, posted an alum acting like that's for sure. A fact I goes on so much. It makes me sick, man. Feels good to swear again to kept clean for Ted ex. Feels good curse. Hoping I had a great time with you suckers, Rhode Island Connecticut last week recording several episodes beforehand, get the sound quality up for I go on a longer trip than normal help. It had a great time hoping I hope I have more fun with more happy murder shows this week at camper. Not happy murder. My tour is having murder check. Dan. Komen dot TV to check with having murder two thousand nine tours taking place. Chicago was the last one to be added to the calendar. I don't know that we're going to add any more. There's just not room this week. I hit the New Brunswick New Jersey stress factory Thursday, January twenty four th through Saturday, January twenty six back home before bounced out to Madison, Wisconsin, Phillies, Salt Lake City in Nashville in Madison and Salt Lake City. Stand up shows and lifetime sucks. Talking about the ant hill kids, the ant hill Colt, only at the live sucks. This year. Insane. Brutal co-leader story not many got people to keep falling them after abusing them the way Canadian co-leader rock terro did in in the seventies. More live sucks. On that topic coming up in Cleveland and April Nashville in April at a comedy festival Spokane and San Francisco and may Orlando in August Phoenix in September a few more in Denver Grand Rapids into coma. And then that'll be it for that topic. The two thousand eighteen live show the Matamoros Narco Satan is called being released on the secret suck for secret suck space this week. And the Denver show being released the space on patriots as video. All right. And that's it. That's it now for today's darkness hull buckle up mother. Fuckers story stories just it's so insane time for today's darkness with Ed Kemper. When I read the initial research for today's suck provided by Heather knowledge ninja Rylander get out in the suck dungeon with a Joe paisley, Reverend Dr Joe, and I've never interrupted him more work, usually, I'm the one this worried about just being interrupted by anyone just because I have a lot of content to build every week, and I'm trying to try and stay focused, and, you know, void a lot of conversations or time. I kept bothering job. I just I couldn't I had to share what I was reading with somebody. I just kept saying out loud. The most since the toy box killer episode. I just kept saying what the fuck are. What are you serious? Why? I can't believe I've never I'd never heard about Ed camper before time suck. I know. He's. Yeah. Well, actually, I was gonna give something away for later near my dude is cartoonish evil. The the research. I did for this up reminded me the research. I did on the cheek Petilleau episode like it's just. Equally just so strange and actually with cheekily specifically, there's a certain dysfunctional penis relationship between the two killers found a lot of moments dark laughter, and that wasn't laughing. Because what is funny nothing? He did was it was funny as far as the heinous stuff are from extremely tragic, but it just it's so dark and so ridiculous. That kind of like nervous laughter. Oh my God. No, what's in the way. He would talk about what he did the way. I guess he's still alive way talks about it. It's it's so ludicrous. It almost feels fake. But it's not fake. He was convicted. He is in prison. Now, he's been convicted of heinous crimes twice. There's lots of evidence to backs up. What he said he has done also strains that he that? He was caught twice not only caught turned himself in twice very unusual on both both cases, he assumed he would just get caught. Anyway, if he didn't I think that was the main motivation, but still unusual for Cyril. Alert to turn themselves in now once but twice also crazy that he got out after the first time after the first things he did strange strange twisted animal this, Ed camper. Let's dig into his life. In today's time suck timeline. Shrimp on those boots soldier where marching down a time. Suck matai line. The Cimber eighteenth nineteen forty-eight Edmond Emile Kemper, the third is born to Edmund Kemper junior and Clark L Strandberg in Burbank, California, Edmund and Clark L hoping they went by Ed and Clara Edmund and Cornell sound like the names would give this some monsters. And when remember the munsters my Tennessee to go with very old references Addams family, like an Addams family type situation. Just new I'm Edmund in. This is my darling wife Clough. No have you seen all boy Edmund third. He will grow to be a powerful monster. He will make the Campbell family proud. It will be an incredible full for dacas Edwin Clark had gotten married in great falls, Montana. My neck of the woods nineteen. Forty two Abe was in the army's World War Two veteran, either movie California shortly after getting married or already living in California when they got married. And just came to Montana. You know for the service. The couple already had one daughter when when Ed at camper camper was born Susan Huni Kemper Susan was born five years prior to Ed in nineteen forty three and Eddin Carnell would soon have another daughter Allen, Lee camper who'd be born in nineteen fifty one Susan would grow up and go on to have a happy marriage. Raise a family live a long fruitful life in Montana. She'd have two sons Donald ROY a daughter Christie end up with seven, grandchildren. She died in two thousand fourteen in her a bitch wary. Her sister is referenced along with other surviving family Eddie is not eh. Didn't even get mentioned. Alan is still alive out there somewhere. She not surprisingly hasn't exactly volunteered to do. Any interviews about her murderous and psychotic big brother. According some interviews. I've found with Ed Susan Allen's half brother, a man who goes by the fake name of David Weber and interviews because he doesn't want his real name known. Can't blame him. It's Alan thinks of Ed is a good person who did bad things I questioned her really thinking. That's after this suck. I doubt you'll feel the same. Edmund will be there there. His parents only son at least the only one they would have together. What a son he is. He was a huge baby thirteen pounds at birth. Do just could not wait to start hurting women. First thing he does come into the world is to violet woman violate his mother. I can't imagine you have an easy delivery when you give birth to a giant thirteen pound vagina. Tearing baby. I'm guessing some stuff gets shredded the average birth weight for newborn baby, by the way is under eight pounds. Ed is over fifty percent bigger than the average baby. And he would grow into an equally disportionately huge man by nineteen fifty two and is four he's already a head taller than other kids. His own age signs of trouble began to emerge early for young giant, Eddie. I mean this. This is going to be one of those things like was this dude born evil like this. This is very very interesting to me this in terms of nature versus nurture by the end of it. I ended up leaning more on the the nature side. Not everyone agrees who has looked into camper. Actually, I think most people end up thinking it's more like nurture situation with mama. I think this dude just been born a fucking psychotic maniac. Here's a dark fantasy life. Sometimes dreaming about killing his his mother. He cuts off the head of his sister's dolls talks is sisters when they're very young and to play a game called gas chamber. A game which he has his sisters blindfold him and lead him to chair where he pretends to ride in agony until he dies as a young child. Does. He also plays another fun game with his sisters called electric chair. It's very similar to the gas chamber gas chamber game just a slightly different ending when he was in second grade second grade, he's he'd sneak out of his house. He would get his dad's World War Two bayonet or if he used bayonets World War Two but his dad was in the milliner and his dad had a bayonet. So that's why I call it. But he would get his dad's bayonet. I know that for sure and he would sneak out to a second grade. Teachers house watch her through the window like a tiny. I guess he was big for aids. But still a young super young fucking lurker creep and fantasize about murdering her second grade second grade, none of this is good. If you have a kid playing murder games who snaking out to watch their teacher to the window while essentially holding a fucking spear. You're gonna want to put that kid in counseling ASEP. Maybe not maybe not let them touch anything sharp. Maybe get good solid locks installed on the doors of every other family members bedrooms. Maybe also take your little monsters door completely off the hinges. So they can't be doing anything creepy alone. An unwashed in there. I don't care if only seven or eight you might wanna put like some kind of ankle monitor's GPS monitor on them. So glad I don't have a kid like that people on a teacher to the window night and second grade while holding a bayonet mixing sexual thoughts with violent thoughts at that age. I peep when I was a kid, I'm gonna full disclosure. You guys know I'm pretty transparent, I peeped on a neighbor lady taking a shower. Sophomore in high school has fifteen and my dad has step mom at the time would have me they should've put me accounting for that. That's pretty creepy. Luckily, I was not doing it holding a weapon was not holding a spear. I would think about instant later while holding a spear of sorts a trouser spear. If you will think about how exciting to us to see a real life naked woman as creep by was not an Ed Kemper level of creep. Thank god. Okay. Nineteen fifty seven at campus. Ten he's he he starts to kill. Now, the not humans not humans. But this this disturbed me almost as much as as the humans will be talking about later. I don't know what that says about me. We started to kill beginning with the family's pet cat. I know sometimes animal lovers react more strongly to tales of animal sadism than human. So if you're an animal lover. Brace yourself if your cat lover who this is this is not going to be fun. This is not going to be fun for you at all. If you're a cat hater sadistic. Sociopaths cat hater take off your pants now. 'cause you're probably gonna start jerking off. This one is going to be a yes, okay. So bojangles who is not normally terribly fond of cats even growl. When I I saw this little tale ten-year-old Edmund berries, the family cat alive. Buries it alive. That's not the most fucked up part, not even close once is dead. Digs up the failing. Laughing because I think this is funny. It's just so ridiculous. Digs up the family cat. He cuts it's head off. And then he puts his head on the end of a spike like a little like a little cat head on a stick. It's his first trophy. And it's it's a model. He would he would use for later trophies self Huck in messed up walking around with a little cat head on stick. Why did he do? This turns out he had severe. Mommy issues turns out. There was a very good chance that mommy, we'll find out soon may have been if she wasn't vicious man-hating woman who made these life health, that's how he perceived her. There's a big debate on that he at the very least he perceived his mother to be against him, very strongly an man-hating woman who hated him and any both loved or I guess, you know, still does both these alive both love and hate his mom. So and that might have something to do with the holding the bayonet out outside his female teachers window, Ed from very young age was super intimidated by women grew to have both a lot of reverence and a lot of hatred towards women and his mom loved the family cat, his mom's cat. So I'm thinking that is why he killed. I don't I don't believe he well, actually, he did speak to speak to that fairly directly. So yes, I I think that is exactly why he killed the family hat. Most of the reason I just pick. This little psycho walking on his yard, Burbank. The families cat head on a stick. Due due to hurt me. No mother. Why don't you own a pet me mother who look at me look at your sweet little Cutie fund. My body mother for my body in it. I picture him having a very voice he's as big dude into later nineteen even as a child later nineteen fifty seven Ed parents, they get divorced when asked why years later, his dad would say that spooky kid creeped the hell out of me at ten. He was already bigger than me. I was scared. I talked about killing him, but she was against it. I thought we should at least try and maybe break his spine or paralyzing himself to. But she would she wouldn't even compromise on that. We couldn't agree on what to do with little Eddie classic irreconcilable differences packed up my shit. Let the family and I've never looked back. Saudi said he may have thought it would he bakes? You basically said was he left karnal because she was a psycho. So this does give a little bit of credence to the people on the side of nurture with Edward. He said the carnal constantly complained about his menial jobs. Attrition said that suicide missions in wartime and the later atomic bomb testings, he did we're nothing compared to living with karnal. He also said that she affected him as a grown man more than three hundred ninety six days and nights of fighting on the front did. Okay. So pretty common for people to not like their exes. Not liking your ex make sense, this this guy definitely took it further. Dude said World War Two combat was easier on him than getting along with karnal. Okay. All right. So, you know, that's that's pretty strong evidence on the side of karnal. Not being a great woman. There are other people later would have very different thoughts on him. I I will say that the people who seem to really like Carnell tended to be women. You know? So maybe she really did just hate men. Maybe she she really was fine with women. There is that chance after they split campers. Dad stays in California Carnell takes big and the girls to Helena, Montana camera was a daddy's boy the divorce. Devastated him. He had has severely dysfunctional relationship with his mom. He did later reported to be neurotic domineering alcoholic said. She would frequently belittled, humiliated and abused him in one thousand nine hundred four interview. I watched camper described his mother as sick angry, very sad woman. I hated her. I watched the alcohol intake increase, I watched her social life social life. Off. I watched her get bazaar. She had a terrible life with my father. I'm a constant reminder of that failure. So that's that's how he interprets it Clark L might not have killed anybody like her, son. But it does appear that she may have helped drive him to kill nineteen sixty one when he's thirteen. Ed kills another family cat is going to get back. Mom, again for something taken out another one of mom's for baby's again in brutal fashion. Kemper takes a machete to this cat. He holds it holds its legs while slicing off the top of school with the machete. He doesn't want it to be able to run away the blood spurts all over him when he does this. And apparently, he loves it. He loves the feeling of the carnage cabinet. My my my my son just turned thirteen, and I just can't imagine him doing something like that. Like thirteen years old. He's already sadistic fucking maniac. He's extremely angry demented young, man. And and adding another level of terror to him, he's huge already. He's already over six toll in over two hundred pounds. And kill pets. Kind of would be in counseling. Several times a week if he buried our dog penny pooper alive and then put penny poopers. I can't imagine. If he if I came home in kind in the backyard with penny poopers head on a stick do like me more than kind or now father dude like penny pooper modem fodder now. And then and then later after we took a machete to ginger bell, the Faulk could you ever look at your kids the same way again, like my mom teases me to this day about drawn a bunch of naked pictures of women. She founded my closet as a kid. She teases me about figuring. How to unlock the Prenton lock on the satellite TV? So I could jerk off to some porn on TV. She walked out on me. Once she tease me about it. Like we can joke about it. We can joke about is still in like the normal spectrum of juvenile behavior. I don't think she would be joking with me if I was a kid, I took her fucking cat and cut its head off and put on a stick. You know? Okay. Ed's hatred of women is growing attracted to another female teacher around the sage one of his sisters teases him and asked him. What isn't he tried to kiss her? He replies with something the disturbs his sister that you remember me many years later, he says if I kissed her to have to kill her first, okay? Loves women hates women years later. He calls one of his first sexual fantasies from around the time as he entered Peabody said, he would masturbate to mental images of killing everyone in the town. He lived in which was Helena masturbated to to to killing everyone in Helena, and then and then having sex with corpses. Who not good? How do you react to something like that? When you're counselor, by the way, to this kind of stuff is one of the many reasons, I could never make it as a counselor. 'cause I know that like if I was listening to some even if they're yeah. Like thirteen fourteen years old, and they're starting to confess to me that they jerk off to continual thoughts of killing everyone in their town. And then fucking corpses. I I would just be thinking, please, please God, please. God if you do exist on behalf of the world please killed his kid. I know it's not usually good to kill kids. But please kill this one. It's in the best interest of the greater come on. Got you let kids die all the time. Why can't this fucker next? Don't take sweet kids anymore. Take don't take the good ones. Take take the campers take take the other future. Murderers around this age campers mom starts to lock him in the basement at night because she is afraid that he is going to rape his sisters, some sources say in some fashion. There was never charges. Not. A lot of specifics. But accusations of him. Molesting to some level. His sister's fuck. That's when you know mitt that. That's when you really know your kid is super duper fucked up. He's already killed some pets. And then you have to start locking him in the basement. So he doesn't rape your other kids Ed later claimed the getting locked down to the basement at night would become a regular occurrence gave him further fuel to hate his mother, which I do get. Man, nineteen sixty four when he's fifteen he runs away from home, which makes sense, the that's almost inevitable. When you start locking your kid in the basement, even if they deserve it. They're bound to run away. I think at some point if you're also letting them out of the basement, which what she was, you know, if you're like, hey, why why do you run away from home? I got tired of my family lock them in the basement at night. Oh, all right. Well, I was gonna take the police, but that that actually makes a lot of sense carry on camper. Made it all the way to van Nuys California to his dad's place. Didn't didn't dad didn't make it? Very far from Burbank. Burbank van Nuys only about seven eight miles apart. Kevin makes it all the way their pot arrive in his father's house eh little Ed discovers that his father has remarried. So the clearly didn't keep great touch. And now has another son his half-brother the guy with the fake name. We heard from earlier that David Weber. He also finds out that he is not welcome to stay with his dad, and is devastated years later as half brother, David Weber will say that part of the reason it was not welcome to stay was that. He quote creeped out. His father's new wife. Betty did Kemper got big quick by this age. He's already close to the full six foot nine he'd become already ways around two hundred fifty pounds. And yeah, he's creepy creepy. Dude. Kemper would later say dad didn't want me around because they upset his second wife my presence gave her migraine headaches. So maybe she had some kind of evil detector in her brain that was sending off constant alarms when camper was around. But this is the has to be crushing news for Kemper. You know, he was thinking when he's locked in the basement a moms if only I can make it a dad's things will be so much better. Everything will be great. When I was a kid live with my mom after my parents, divorced among who never locked anywhere. Among who didn't doesn't hate men. I did often fantasize about how great life would be with my dad. I didn't see my dad very much for a while. And it's just easy to do. It's common phenomenon for like the children, divorced parents. When the one parent religion around much, it's easy to put that other Paran on a pedestal like, oh, man, I've never get grounded. I'll have MAC and cheese for for every meal do nothing, but just have fun. You just. Build it up in your head. And I I can only imagine how much more intense that was for if rightly wrongly, you know, he thinks his mom is psychotic and hates her and just man if I can just make two dads, and then he gets there. And then dad is like, Nope. You're not going to say here. That's gotta be and he's fucking psychotic. You know? So he probably put extra insanely irrational expectations on what would happen when he lived with his what is dad we're live with all their own moan when I live with father. Maybe we can kill catch together. We can put casts heads on sticks together with father have some fun times with daddy. Walk run a neighborhood, father and stone finding cats what can after head with machetes talking about what ladies we'd like to kill with bayonets doing father-son stuff. Everything we perfect father, man. I hope the neighbors here that upstairs that'd be fun for them. All they hear pudding cuts doce who falls or Edmund junior allows his son to stay with him briefly until he's made arrangements for Ed to live in north fork, California with his parents a little eddies paternal grandparents Edmund senior mod camper on their seventeen acre ranch Kemper would recall later that he was shipped off to his paternal grandparents to live in complete isolation on a California mountaintop with my senile grandfather. And my grandmother who thought she had more balls in any man and was constantly emasculated me. And my grandfather to prove it. I couldn't please her. It was like being in jail. I became a walking time bomb true or not Ed things. He has other woman in his life, controlling and emasculating have another woman hurting him. Not sure this is true about grandma. And this was part of the reason I started to question his feelings about his mom. I mean, I guess he could be projecting his vision of his mother onto his grandma. But nothing anywhere says that his grandma was anything like this. This. To me it felt like he was very much reading into this. Dr Joel for San Francisco based specialists in social and health problems, including crime and violence who would later testify campers trial said he found his grandmother to be authoritarian a disciplinarian just like his mother. That's even interesting wording with him. He found his grandmother to be nothing that she was. Yeah, he consider that. Well, he hated living on the ranch at least you got to kill two small woodland creatures for his first and only Christmas their campers grandfather gave him a twenty two caliber rifle to shoot rabbits and other small game. With around the form can only imagine how many furry critters were shot on those acres. Just two giant Kemper standing above them with a rock hard erection. Because you later say this, you know, this these killings like made him made him sexually excited. Just watching. The land will suffer and die. How disturbing that totally speculating this happened, but based on what I know about camper. I feel pretty sure that something somebody went on similar to this kind of scenarios, but mother would like just little furry rabbit so furry and so. Aw. But mama would hate it. If I put it. I don't stick like cats all which I send a rabbit head on a stick a mother, but post office don't let me send stick heads. Why is everyone out to get me while Kemper may or may not have used his rifle to kill lots of little animals. He definitely use it to kill some humans, August twenty seven nine hundred sixty four camper takes twenty two his grandpa had recently given him and while his sixty six year old grandma Maude camper, sits at the kitchen table type on a typewriter, you know, not paying attention to to add he shoots her three times in the back of the head. He later said he killed his grandmother, quote, just to see what it felt like that's when he know you are truly dealing with somebody who has no empathy like a true, narcissistic, sociopath or psychopath when they tell you. They not only do they kill their fucking grandma. But they do it just feels like you know, that somebody who would not hesitate to. Kill you. If your desk could benefit benefit them in any way, you know, if they feel like they could get away with it to make sure he finished the job Kemper also stab grandma a few times in the back with a kitchen knife. As what he would say he said later, I didn't think she was dead. And I wanted her to suffer. I think that's bullshit. You just shot her three times in the fuck and headed point blank read range. I think he just wanted to to cause more carnage and the act of stabbing sexually excited him. I bet I bet the sick little fuck was just hard as a rock while he stabbed his dead grandmother Kemper. Then Wade in his seventy two year old grandfather pulled up to the house the old man waves smiles at his grandson. Ahead before you get out of the car. He's gonna grab some grocery packages purchased and Tony he bends down to pick up those packages and then camper shoots him in the back of the head is well says he did it because I didn't want him to see what I had done. And then he hides his grandfather's body and closet to to help keep this gruesome murder a secret. A psychiatrist later say he said he didn't want his grandfather to suffer knowing that his wife was dead. Again, bullshit. I think he just killed his grandfather. Because he just didn't want to get caught. That's all he just didn't want to get caught. You know, he would later say he didn't want his grandfather to be mad at him when he found out. What he did? He's now thing ding ding little bit truth. There makes lot more sense in. Oh, just won't do won't grip. Other to be sad. I thought he would be sad. If I if I killed his wife, I thought I bet he will be upset. Got man killing killing his wife with a gun this guy gave him killing him. 'cause you 'cause you're worried about him turning you in Cobo son of a bitch paranoia sets in immediately. Kevin begins to imagine people come into the remote home in the rugged California mountains to to to catch him. He starts thinking that he's going to have to kill all them to in order to keep from being it doesn't know how he's gonna kill everybody. He said later, I sense everybody in the world coming to get me. I knew anybody that came up there that gave me a funny Loker fishy. I or quizzical look I would have to blow their brains out if I had been in a city, I would have been a mass murderer at fifteen I would have killed until they gun me down. I was scared to death and I felt violent. I was the rabbit that always ran that. Always burned my bridges and there was nowhere else to run my back at that wall. And I came out screaming and kicking and shooting. I was raging inside finally unable to live with his despicable act. That's what he says. I just think he was just worried about getting cuts or maybe he just wanted upset his mother. He calls his mom sobbing confesses to the horrible crime. I'm sure those tears were four himself. You just. About getting word about inkata's. He didn't care about grandma grandpa Carnell his mother advise him to call the police which he does. And then he waits patiently on Grandpa's front porch for the authorities to arrive. And then he just he doesn't put up a fight at all just, you know, show them what happened when he gets there. Confesses everything I'm thinking, he probably thought he'd get in trouble. If he confessed and he didn't end up getting much trouble after his arrest. He underwent a barrage of psychiatric testing he was found to have a near genius IQ level. He tested out at one thirty six the first time and one forty five the second. It was also determined that. He suffered from paranoid. Schizophrenia Kemper ended up being placed in the Tuscan Darrow state hospital for the criminally insane in Cadarache or task Darrow, California halfway between LA and San Francisco of highway one to one still there today. Campbell became patient number be five to four five three housed among approximately sixteen hundred murderers and sex defenders. Also, they're not sure what his sense was. Because his sense was. Sealed due to his juvenile offender status and oddly, he thrives in this place, the psychiatric staff at a task Darrow found him both to be very intelligent, and very personable and very likable. They liked him. He soon gave gain privileges. That others. Didn't have Ed is a bright fellow. That was obvious when you were talking with him said, Dr William Sean burger one of the staff psychiatrists at the hospital. He added he was kind of a model patient Kemper spent five years at a task after he murdered his grandparents he recalled with pride the job he'd held there as head of the psychological testing lab at the age of nineteen and working directly under the hospital's chief psychologist. He said I felt I definitely could have done a lot of good there. Helping people return to the streets. I could've fit in there quicker than anybody else. After all I grew up there that used to be like my home. Basically, I was born there. You know, I have a lot of fond memories of that place. He was entrusted to help the hospital staff administer. Psychiatric tests other patients he he became a member of the junior chamber of commerce. Cracks me up. What kind of business ideas is he cooking up her? What do you think of this business idea cat had sickles ext like a popsicle? But instead hear me out. Instead of frozen sugar and water and other sweet syrupy flavors is a frozen cats. Head cat had sickles were the pets are the treats. During his trial. He wore his chamber of commerce membership pin on his lapel with pride because of his intelligence and ability apparently was valuable aid and psychological testing and research. He said I helped to develop some new tests and some new scales on the m PI the Minnesota multi-phase personality inventory, I helped to develop a new scale called the overt hostility scale. How's that for ironic? Yeah. I it is smart guy said it's actually pretty ironic after any of the counselors trust quickly becoming seemingly cured Kemper was paroled on his twenty first birthday on December eighteenth nineteen seventy-one what he's slept back out. What he's twenty one. And then because the parole officers were really busy with other case. And they just were so not concerned with him. He claims that he he didn't end up even having to check in his office. He said he went to check in the first time they told him like do you feel like a lot of rage? And he was like, no. And they're like, well, we're busy with some other stuff as long as you feel good this. You know, you're good. You don't have to come over the check it. Mike johnson. A former reporter for the San Jose Mercury news thinks that camera was just smart enough to manipulate the doctors at state hospital. Check this out speaking to his criminal genius. And just as do the counselors they trust him. So who so manipulative they trusted him enough to give him access to materials that allowed him to master test questions. He would later be asked in order to prove he'd been rehabilitated when they made him that aid in psychological testing and research department. Mike Johnson says he intentionally let the psychiatrist to believe he was normal. He had them eating out of his hands. One of the Aaron's. He would run was to carry test materials from one room to another camera later said that during these. Trips between offices. He would memorize this material just beginning this pattern of manipulation that he really kind of mastered in the walls of this facility just became a better manipulator there. He had so much access to the records of other patients and test papers. He just learned all the criteria for all the diagnosis like, and what they would be looking for to find out if the person was truly cured, you know, signs that they were faking he just learned to master behaving in that way. A he knew exactly how to act and then did that. And then they thought he was totally cured. That's Hannibal Lecter sounds of the lambs type shit this. You know, I knew what they wanted to hear Clarice. I gave them the answers that the into Seve I enjoyed knowing that he would feel tremendous guilt and shame for the latest killings. I'd already planned after he was released although his hydra recommended he not have contact with his mother he was nonetheless returned by his parole officer. So he didn't have to check out really with prose. But he did he was you know, put in. Her care, and that move would would set off a tragic chain of I mean, I mean, maybe they would have happened anyway. But probably not as quickly as severely because of his anger towards mom almost immediately. He claims the verbal abuse began a new. Kimber recalls. His mother saying for seven years, I haven't had sex with a man because of you, my murderous son Amari true, probably a little harder to get laid your when your son's the fucking grandpa killing maniac for his part. He almost immediately reverts back to the angry frightened damage boy who, you know, trapped in that Montana basement campers mother and since left Montana resettling, California this time in Santa Cruz where she had a job as an administrative assistant at the university of California Santa Cruz. It was the early nineteen seventies. And the oceanfront community was a big hippie haven is big home to beach Lovin, you know, we'd smoke in LSD Droppin hippies and some of the tourists a lot of the counterculture bled. Over from the San Francisco Bay ended up forming, you know, people forming commune's in places like Santa Cruz and Santa Cruz county. Yeah. As an attractive area to to these kind of people in a lot of beautiful young single free. Love loving, you know, hippie girls hailers to fana-, man. Good guitar to be live. Michael alluvia local police officer who later became part of the Kemper investigation said people were coming from across the country to live that free and liberating lifestyle and camper wanted to meet these young liberated ladies start a new life makes them regular friends. But he just didn't know how to talk to him and his murderous personality was simmering just beneath the surface. He felt particularly inadequate around women. He was lonely he attempted to date. But after one disastrous first date he shied away from trying to have any further intimate encounters with these girls. He'd later say my first date was an absolute disaster. It was a terrible tragedy. His first date is only like real date typical out to eat Dennis. And then watch John Wayne movie, dude. What the hell? Yeah. That's a terrible date. Denny's Denny's on a first date. Listen, listen, I liked any. They have great pancakes. I like, solid pancakes. You know, the good eggs good begging overall vibe, they're diners a love. They're usually open twenty four hours spent many late night in Denny's like way better than I hop Sergey working. I hop then. He's fucking crushes you of Denny's not a first place. It's like like that's like taking a lady to Taco Bell or white castle. My name is Ed I have no originality or concept of romance. Like, you don't have to go someplace expensive, but find a find a little mom pod diner, just as cheap, but some charm, and then movie now take her out for a drink game, a pool something where you can interact a little bit and after land conversation, but totally quiet and not not John Wayne. That's a dude flick come up camper knew he had no skills. He'd say it wasn't her fault. I don't blame her. I was such a dork a grandparent killing kind of door. That's that's. The worst kind of dork. And he also he did have another reason to be intimidated around women. He had a tiny tiny penis. Not sure exactly how big it was. But I know based on numerous articles based on people who've written books around at Kemper, apparently with very small, I think in the micro pain territory, and and looked even smaller than it was due to how big the rest of his body was so, you know, the contrast not helping him at no chance. No, how do you start dating? When you're a giant, man. Who's killed his grandparents you spent your formative years locked up the state mental institution for killing your parents. You have no sexual experience, and you have a tiny little micro pain. Let me tell you a little bit about myself. Okay. All right. Well, used to get locked in new basement quite a bit for for trying to write my sister that that may mother vary angry, I can only imagine how much trouble I would have gotten. If she would have found out about me. Putting some cats heads on sticks. Would've would've never gotten out of the basement how how are your pancakes or good? Let's see what else about me not craze here anymore. That's documented a used to be crazy cold, grandma and grandpa dollars. Very naughty. Those very naughty. And I know that because I spent my formative years in the state mental hospital for the criminally insane. Any who do you like, John Wayne? I'm sure having fun at our Denny's date. Hey, one of my saying, I hope this is not a deal breaker. I have tiny penis like a little TD tiny pain makes me very angry. Ever. He was in a shady situation as far as trying to rehabilitate his life. Terrible past. No, you know, God, it's still no positive female role models. Life is he's he's he was nothing like the free spirited young young women who are flocking Santa Cruz nothing. Like the dudes around there either. He would later say all of these kids are like aliens to me, you know, he'd been locked up for the beginning of the hip hippie era in America's entry into Vietnamese. He missed crucial years during that time. You know, the the world has changed significantly. He said regarding you know, the other kids in the end this first date. He said they were totally different from the kids. I knew all you knew people locked up for being fucking monsters. He said, plus I've been locked up since I was fifteen I I couldn't tell her that. When I got out on the street. It was like being on a strange planet. People my age, we're not talking the same language. It's almost you know, I I met almost no one who'd killed their grandparents. Now, he didn't say that. He said I been living with people older than I was for so long that I was an old fogy Ed cameraman, so smart so dump so fucked up he does seem like he tried to live a normal life for a little while when he got out I I will say that like a tiny little low for a few months Kemper got his GED local college local community, college almost immediately. He hoped to become a police officer he tried to police officer. But he was too tall. It does seem like that's the reason he was not allowed to be a police officer. It wasn't about his past because his juvenile records were sealed. As far as I can tell that's no longer reason to be denied being pleased after being six nine it is crazy to me. Also that the the reason what wasn't his record. Because from what I read the police would not have been able to access his juvenile record for killing his grandparents that doesn't seem to me like, I think that maybe certain organizations should always be able to unseal your juvenile records. Like a few kill your fucking grandparents. I don't think you should ever be allowed to be a cop like not ever or work at a nursing home or be put in charge of bingo night instead of joining the police force. He landed a job with the California, California division of highways working as a road construction flagman man, Mike Johnson that San Jose. Mercury News reporter said I really liked that paper, by the way, it's come up another Golden State killer. I think they do hell of a job. He said he was as strong as a horse, and I think he liked to culture of the job the physical work. That's scary. He's very strong for for being a big guy. He saved his money eventually earned enough money to. By himself motorcycle. But then he crashed and suffered a head injury in the process. Great violent psychopath with a head injury. That does not bode well historically for for people people's behavior as we learned another serial killer sucks, and then win the settlement. He went to settlement. After the accident. The Laos into purchase a car yellow nineteen sixty nine four galaxy and he will use his car to beginning reign of terror on the unsuspecting surrounding community the highways around Santa Cruz became killer, stocking grounds this time as we learn other socks hitchhiking was still common. Remember that way? Back from Charles Manson every hits hitchhiking around there. A lot of college girls chose hitchhiking their mode of transportation. Camper was happy to give them a ride, and then soon more than happy to do horrible things to them. He said I traveled a lot because they've been locked up for five and a half years. So I was driving around the driving around with a way to demonstrate that freedom. It was a way to get the cobwebs out of me. His mother made the mistake of giving him a university staff parking sticker for easier campus access and she accidentally picked his future victims when she told him to leave. Coeds alone. She told him apparently over and over that he was never going to attract the pretty co EDS at the school to stay away from them. He would later say my mother works at the university of my mother wouldn't introduce me to any of the young ladies at the university because I'm like my father, and I don't deserve to know any of these young ladies mother thinks you have a bad. Pene mother wants me to Kate. My angry little Wayne away from the women ladies. This relentless ridicule. Eventually led him to decide that he was gonna kill these girls that she, you know, thought a lot of the ticket back at mom, you know, his new two door car would would be this weapon. Yeah. This poor call these college girls, they would they would replace his mom's cats essentially soon after getting his car, he starts picking up hitchhiking college girls. He said it. I I picked up girls to talk to them just to try to get acquainted with people my own age and try to strike up a friendship. He would tell investigators that later again, I think it's bullshit. I think he was just figuring out what he wanted to do to them and how he would get away with it. And he did make lose to that later. He found himself sexually attracted to the girls. He picked up hitchhiking, which was many as one hundred fifty you know, the overwhelming majority of he let go, and I'm sure they were horrified. You know later when they learned they had nearly met a violent end at the hand of this maniac. Yeah. He started having fantasy did them after a while. You know, he wanted to romance them. Didn't know how they started fan just thinking about what I'll just read them. And then he's like you have if I rape them. I'm going to be easy to identify. He said I decided to mix the to start thinking about killing him. He goes I decided to mix the two and have a situation of rape and murder. No witnesses and no prosecution if I killed them, you know, then they couldn't reject me as a man it was more or less making a dull out of a human being and carrying out my fantasies with dull a living human dole. I'm sorry to sound cold about this. But what I needed was to have a particular experience with the person to possess them in a way I wanted to I had to evict them from their bodies. That's all just making some some human fuck dolls. No big deal. Just a victim people from their bodies. Look order not want to kill those girls. But I did want to be writing them, and I did not want to be caught for Ripi nam. So as one. Does you make all out of them? You just a victim the person and make a doll qisas murder was such a sad part of his doll making process. I hope you know, man, he, but he realized like, you know, if I if I if I do this and don't kill them. It's not going to be hard to find the the guy who looks like an NBA center with a teeny tiny wing. What is going to do? Now is so fucked up many of you have been asking to bring back to super scary stuff little segment. Little more often. I think this next murderous section of the time line calls for it. It's yeah. It's actually is to get a little worse than we've already done. But first word from one today. Sponsors. Today's times is brought to you by campers pet sickles. Do you like pets like popsicles? Well, if you just said yes twice, then there is a very small chance. And I mean, very very very small chance that you will love campers pedals. Listen campers pet sickles come in the following flavors. Tabby? The Siamese Persian hairless cat the coming just about every flavor of dog doodles terriers chihuahuas dobermans rottweilers of more. They also come in rat python. Pig ferret parrot iguana goldfish. Basically any kind of pet that has a head is bound to become one of campers pets singles the recipe for campers pets cycles. 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Suck Lincoln the episode description or push the four hymns button in the sponsor section the time so cap and now the time line will continue with this section of super scary stuff. All right early nineteen seventy-two within a few months of being released from the state psychiatric hospital Kemp camper purchase impacts car with items. He would need for his crimes he's been fantasizing about. So all that stuff. We talked about the motorcycle getting it all happens, very fast. And then he I remember he is genius. He gets plastic. Bags knives blankets handcuffs starts driving around in. Search of the perfect victim. I would say I saw a lot of people out there. And I picked anybody up who wanted to write. And you actually got the handcuffs from a police officer buddy of his hit manipulated local police into thinking he was a great, dude. More on that in a few minutes Kemper soon became unable after giving picking up these girls and giving them the rights to control his murderous urges. He called these murders urges little Zappa's, by the way, and his second murders. Free begins Little's apples, what interesting term just to make murder sound like it's not that big of a deal by not not that big of a deal just to murder decapitate somebody and then sexually desecrates hopes so related you just got sampled. Little's outpost gonna give other one of these days. Unlike my lewd or supple. Kemper talked about his growing urge to kill later. He said, I'm picking up young women. I'm going to little farther east time. I is it's daring kind of thing. I there wasn't a gun. I'm driving along we go to a vulnerable place where the rain people watching why could act out, and I say, no, I can't. And then a gun is in the car hidden, and then this craving is awful rage. Eating feeling inside. This fantastic passionate was overwhelming me. It was like drugs. It was like alcohol. A little is enough at first it is. But as you adjust you need, more and more and more. So he's building his urge he's taking things a little farther making the rides a little more uncomfortable. Every time planning this out, and then on may seventh nineteen seventy-two Kemper picked up to eighteen year old Fresno state students who are hitchhiking to visit friends studying in Berkeley, California. Marianne peci Anita Mary Lou Chesa in newspaper stories from the Santa Cruz sentinel, nineteen seventy-two pet. She was described as being five one wearing maroon sw. Shirt and faded blue jeans. She had blue eyes and dark hair. Lou Chesa was also five one blonde with gold. Rimmed glasses wearing white shirt beneath denim, bib, overalls both girls eighteen years old easy targets for Kemper who learned to make people including the police officers. He'd recently become became chummy with feel safe in his large sized presence. He told one French interview were later, they're not going to get in your car. If they can see you from a half a block away drooling. Instead he would check his watch making himself from casual rather than to eager then co combined with specific pair of glasses. Camper war to make himself seem more studious. He would ease people's apprehension included this Marianne. He said later, she was a haughty young lady stuck up a valley girl. She was playing little miss distant with me, FOX guy. Fuck this guy. She had hitchhiked through Europe she'd done it in the United States. She was good at it. She didn't want to get in the car, though, who her roommate Anita, however, much more open and after asking camper where he. Was headed jumped into the front seat. Eventually Marianne got into the backseat. Although, according to campers you kept a close eye on him as they drove you said, Anita was more flirty. But it was Marianne the Kemper initially found most attractive, which ultimately sealed her fate as his first victim. He said. Anita at one point gave me a sexy. Little look, I smile back at her. But I saw it for what it was. It was an eighteen year old girl, just feeling her oats. But I was getting caught up with the girl in the backseat. She had pretty blue eyes and beautiful black hair as they watch each other in the rear view mirror. Kemper was formed his plan. He drove these young women to remote area. Like you've been doing recently turned off his car, and then brandish his gun. The slight women were no match for Kemper. They wouldn't have been able to escape because Kemper had Jimmy the door. He's essentially prevented from being opened from the inside. According to police reports and taped confessions Kemper began his cO and murder spree by tying up Nita gun point, forcing her into the trunk. He then turned his attention to Marianne peci in the back seat intending to Raipur, but even after taking off offer close he was unable to complete the act because he had no previous actual experience. He was embarrassed about his little weaned use a net that his first attempts his inability to perform sexually enrages him. So he stabs her to death with a knife. He had purchased a pawnshop fucking echoes of cheeky low here sh- same anger over a uncooperative penis except this one a tiny one. You know, like I feel like Chica Taylor would love to hear this story is what is big deal. So he have limp. Shamed. Cock. It's nothing to worry about it. The little stabbing care of that a little bit the wrestling. Of course, it's tiny Kim Puerto mayor can capitalist his tiny Pene mill compared to giant limp. Russia and shame cockatiel. Finally, I have better peanuts than other Munster stole Pachuca to loot note there Tony just looks more because of my body, please don't make me zeppelin. You put your head on a stick show to mother. Sorry, new listener ole one creepy old suck murder. Meet another creepy when they're real quick. This is the first time camper has used a knife to kill someone. He said I stabbed her and she didn't fall dead. They're supposed to fall dead. I've seen it in all the movies. It doesn't work that way. When you stab someone they leaked to death. He so fucking disturbing. He says it wasn't working worth a damn I stabbed her all over when she turned around. I couldn't see stabbing someone in the breasts. I was I was that affected by our presence. She ended up getting her throat cuts, and I learned the term ear to ear because that's the way it went. He then backed up out of the car and said shit now I've got to go kill the other one just grandpa all over again. You know, please don't move me. Zappala? You do not sesame me today mother. I had a very hard day. I had to Zappala two ladies but only wanted to Zappa l- one. Ooh. Ooh. Kemper then headed back to the Trump. He finds a terrified Anita who would just listen to your best friend roommate screaming. She's back there her hands Cup behind her back. He said, I just gone listen to his verbiage this guy, so narcissistic, he said, I just gone through a horrible experience with her roommates. And I was in shock because of because all Portia you man, you just were victimized with his horrible experience having to stab someone to death or trying to rape you pace of shit. He goes I was walking back to the car and thinking I can't let her go. Everyone's going to know she sees the blood on my hands and says, what are you doing? And I said your friend got smart with me. She got really smart with me. And I hit her. I think I broke her nose. You'd better come help. Anita began calling out of the trunk and camper wedding with the for the kill again using that pawnshop knife. When I attacked her at first, she didn't know what was happening. He said eventually, however, Anita fell back into the trunk died of her injuries and Kemper slam the trunk shut after regaining his composure he deposits Marianne in his trunk as well. His plan was to sneak the girls bodies. Into the bedroom of Alameda apartment. He temporarily moved out of his mom's house just for a little bit under the cover of darkness in order to dismember them on the way home to his place. He stopped by police due to broken tail lights gets away with the warning. Oh, my God came so close. Can he later said had the officer asked to search his vehicle? He would have killed the officer along side the remote stretch of road. I was playing a dangerous game. He said Kemper later told a reporter that he liked Anita. Excuse me, thought she was really pretty she best represented the kind of girl he was attracted to the kind of girl. His mother told him he would never have. I was really quite struck by her personality and her looks. And there was almost just a reverence there in a way she a pit him is what drove me. Okay. So I guess he liked the other girl more which she was alive. Now, he's really do need once Kemp arrives his apartment Alameda. He wait until dark and took both bodies to his bedroom where he decapitated them and place their heads and plastic trash bags. He then cut the girls bodies into pieces in the bathtub. He said, you know. The heads were everything is at the brain is in mouth. That's the person. I remember being told as a kid you cut off the head and the body dies. The body is not now for the head is cut off. That's not quite true with a girl. There's a lot left in the girl's body without a head. Of course, the personality is gone holding the severed head in my hand, I'd say this is insane. A yeah. You think I love that it took until you got that far to think that the whole thing is insane. Camper might not be technically criminally insane. But he has bat shit crazy. Just semantics that point when referring to somebody's insane, right. Like, you cannot do what he has done and Nabi what I think of is just out of your fucking mind crazy as Ed cut the bodies in the pieces, he took photos as each piece was removed and constantly masturbated throughout the gruesome activity echoes of Jimmy Jeffrey Dahmer now, right? Just getting turned on by these macabre body pieces the heads he saved trophies. And then he would later use them for sexual acts. Which was apparently, you know, it's easier to do when he didn't have to worry about his lack of sexual experience with these now situation or his ironically miniscule size penis, my got kids. If you're if you're still listed this episode Cup cover your ears up for a minute. I know it's already been beyond darkened terrible. But it's going to get a little worse when I heard he used the head for sexual as I thought like like what part of the head like what is he where is he what does he fucking essentially turns out, not just the mouth. He also he found it more satisfying to sexually penetrate their windpipe, basically, you just push his penis up towards their head into. He would fuck their necks. I wonder if he thought that was insane. You know when he's doing that. Oh, Merlin Thursdays. Real crazy. All us apples or some real perverts. Even I know that mother would be so mad if she called me. Fucking neck. Story. I've I've got over it soberly times. And it's it's just. So crazy. Kemper slept with the girls heads for a few nights as a monster. Does then he returned the bodies to his trunk dump some parts into a grove of Redwood trees alongside a remote highway others in a brush area. That was also fairly remote Marianne the trunk of her body minus arms legs was buried. Thirty said Kemper kept both heads in his car for a while as he drive around he'd taken out of the bag. And use it on himself to simulate oral sex. My god. God he would just occasionally get road head from a literal head, and due course, of time the heads began to decompose eventually through both of them into a ravine, the kids were considered messing persons, and I can I'm not laughing. How fucking terrible is have not laughed at the victims. It's just I don't know how else to react to this stuff. It's so beyond insane. To me. All these details the heads when they were found were so badly decomposed had to be identified by dental records later after his arrest Kemper showed investigators where he buried Marianne torso. Unfortunately, anita's body was never found. The girls were listened as missing persons for months Kemper visited the remains of Anita for months before turning himself in and later lead investigators to the grave where he had buried her. He would say sometimes afterwards, I visited there to be near her because I loved her and wanted her you later stand the witness stand, actually, I loved her. Again. But not but not crazy. But not insane. Not criminally insane. He just, you know, misses his head that he's literally been fucking and is in love with it. All right. Let's talk real quick about campers cop buddies, the ones that gave him the handcuffs. He would use on some of his victims. Kemper had always wanted to be police officer, or at least for you know, for a long time, but his imposing size had made it impossible dream. So instead when he when he got out of that state mental institution, you know, went to go live with mom initially. He befriended the cops in the neighborhood and ended up hanging out with them at a bar called the jury room, which was the local cop bar. I remember Ed being there are many occasions, especially in the homicides. We're going on. He would come in and have a few beers with guys and talk to us at Jim Connor a former city of Santa Cruz police officer who later play a role in campers arrest. He had a great personality. He was very friendly very outgoing, and he was real likable guy. That's a pair of white officers unwittingly gave camper a pair of handcuffs that he used to control some of his victims along with the police training badge. Although there is no evidence that he uses badge to coerce or ease. The minds as victims when he was with them. He was able to think about here, I am an ongoing murderer, and they don't know anything about it. And they fully accept me. I'm just one of the boys to Dr Jill fort that San Francisco Bay specialist, you know, and social health and health problems, including crime and violence, four described camper as a police groupie, which other psychologists have said is a common marker for sexual status as well as serial killers, many serial sexual murders have a fascination with police as forensic psychologist Louis lesser, Louis Slesinger, this part of the psychology, and they do that for a number of reasons they can hang out with them from one, but they can also follow the investigations and see if they're being talked about at all this is very stimulating for them. The conversations in the jury room were heavily focused on missing Cohen's, which likely added to campers thrill son of a bitch man is creek. His killing into filing these women then going to hang out and have drinks with the cops were trying to catch him. Okay, September next victim was fifteen year old Dan student Aiko Koo who he picked up while he was hitchhike or while she was hitchhiking excuse me after missing her bus on the evening of September fourteenth. Nineteen seventy-two Aiko was on her way to dance class. She was excited to have landed a chance to appear at the Saint Louis world trade fair performing Korean ballet says Townsend young kid because her family had no car her mother and employed university of California library was unable to take her to this event coupon to ride the bus, but the petite dancer would never make the night before who is to leave. She and her mother put the finishing touches on a costume her mom was concerned about a trip. She said later, I didn't want her to go. It wasn't that important for her to go to that class. But when my daughter wants things, she wants them, very bad. I'm no psychic. But I was afraid for her. She was so beautiful last night. I finally told her she could go to the bus if she didn't hit too, right? To miss the bus. However, then made a sign to alert other drivers headed in the direction of Saint Louis where she was going. She needed right. How ma'am I got all my kids, never hitchhike. Please never hitchhike a special Monroe do not hitchhike. I got that could be the subtitle for this suck do not ever fucking hitchhike coup despite being young was used to hitchhike, which I still see people. Do the suck don's is actually right by freeway entrance exits. I still see people every once in a while, especially in the summer wanna catch rise places. Hitchhiking was common again in the early seventies around Santa Cruz camper. Caesar gives it the last right of her life says she got in the car, and he drove or no he didn't say there's Tom Tom Honi, Tom Hoenig, a reporter for this Santa Cruz sentinel time said she got in the car. He drove across the bay to San Francisco, but unfortunately, for her he kept going the little girl was terrified. Obviously once coup was in his car. Camper told authorities he drove her to an isolated location in the mountains above Santa Cruz where he. He said I pulled the gun out to show her. I had it. She was freaking out then I put the gun away and that had more effect on her. Then pulling it out at one point he locked himself out of his car. But he's talked a hysterical coup into letting him back in he then taped her mouth shut pinched nostrils together until she blacked out. And then he raped her while she was unconscious then before she regained consciousness strangled her to make sure she was dead camper. Ta-chou's body back to his apartment where he dismembered her and cover head. Of course, he did this guy loves fucking heads. He said, I remember it was very exciting. There was a sexual thrill. It was kind of an exalted triumphant type thing like taking the head of a deer or an elk or something would something would be to a hunter. I was the hunter. And they were the victims. This is how rationalize it. You know? I wasn't a human being wasn't a fifteen year old girl with a whole life ahead of her. She was a fuck doll and a deer, and he was a hunter Kemper disposed of her body, but kept her. Head which he stashed in the trunk of his car. It was there the next day when you tended a psychiatric parole hearing. So he did have to go to this. He miss beat telling the mental health professionals exactly what they wanted to hear keeping his depravity. We'll hidden secret. He saw two doctors that day the first he saw. You know, saw no indication that Kemper was a danger while the second call the deprave serial killer, both normal and safe. Both doctors recommended his juvenile records be totally sealed. He he has made an excellent response to the years of treatment. I see no psychiatric reason to consider him to be danger to himself or any other member of society. One of them wrote. The other suggested the campers motorcycle had been more of a threat to him than he was to anyone else. Meanwhile, kids head in the truck camper was given a clean Bill of health went back to his car to severed heads there. He he then goes to the jury room have a few. Celebrate story drinks this cop buddies before though in the parking lot of the jury room the son of a bitch. She opens his trunk to take a look at her fucking head. He says, I suppose I was sending their looking I was doing one of those triumphant things admiring my work admiring, her beauty. And I might say admired my catch like a fisherman. I just wanted the exalted over the party in other words winning over death. They were dead, and I was alive that was the victory in this case he later buried coups head in his mother's garden. Joking about how his mother always. Wanted people to look up to her the rest of her body minus the scarf you say to the trophy buried his mother's backyard. All this has happened within a year of him being released from that state mental hospital, and then he somehow ends up becoming eligible for parole after getting caught for killing these girls and more later, how does this stuff happen? Campers records were sealed a month later, despite the objection of district attorney hand heart. So, but but it said that his when he tried to be police officer, they're they're already sealed. So maybe there was like a, I guess it doesn't it doesn't specify. But it sounds like there was a a portion of time while they were deciding how they were going to seal them, if there would be sealed when you when you couldn't look at them, but district attorney Han heart argued that given the nature of his crimes his his record should've been kept open for at least another ten years life. It should be kept on for life. 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Suck nailed that Lincoln the up description at least the button and the time suck Eappen on the times website make getting that deal so easy now back to the fall of nineteen seventy-two campers been out of that state hospital for less than a year. He's been killed again for a few months. He's able to continue to kill now. Partly thanks to another serial killer. He will eventually meat when they're both incarcerated during the time of campers murders. There was another serial killer working the same territory, right? Same. Tori, same time which really fucked with police when they're trying to establish a motorcycle around for these for this. You know, who they think is one person initially. They thought for a while the killings were attributed to the same killer, not to two different men who didn't know each other. Because it's other killer did kill some hitchhikers. The other killer was twenty five year old Herbert Mullin today Mullen resides at mule creek state prison in I Oni, California back in late nineteen seventy two Herbert was beginning to killing spree that would take the lives of thirteen victims. He'd be caught in February of the following year. He confessed that he killed them to prevent earthquakes as crazy as Kemper is. We probably want to do a suck on Herbert Merlin down the road because he is even crazier in his way. He he'd be caught killing he confessed again, he he killed people to prevent earthquakes like Kemper he'd previously been committed to a mental hospital Mullen believe that the Vietnam war had produced enough American death to forestall earthquakes because of some sort of blood sacrifice to nature. He. Lived in. But that with the war winding down by late nineteen seventy two he had to start killing more people in order to have enough deaths to keep the earthquakes away. Unlike Kemper, he did not target one specific type on October thirteenth nineteen seventy two. For example, Molin beat Lawrence Whitey white homeless man to death with a baseball bat. White fifty five years old have been high hitchhike in highway nine Molin struck him down after tricking him into looking at the car engine. He later tracked down and killed an old high school buddy who had sold him marijuana. Once he blamed some problems on his life Runtime us of drug. Use felt this guy was responsible. This guy who was voted most likely succeed by his high school class at one time. He's a popular intelligence student something that experimentation with LSD made him paranoid delusional enough to kill his victims. Which also included a priest and two young kids. People also think that this LSD helps maybe bring out or at least intensify paranoid schizophrenia. And like I said, please the time believe that the same person responsible for all the murders tough to establish a pattern given the difference between the the violent thoat killings in the seemingly random murders. That would eventually be attributed to Mullen, and then years later in a strange twist Kemper Mullin would be arrested around the same time would end up in a joining cells. According to Kemper Mullen had a habit of singing and bothering people with someone tried to watch TV. So I threw water on him to shut him up. Then when he was a good, boy I'd. These are his words when he was a good boy. I'd give him some peanuts. Herbie liked peanuts. It was affected because pretty soon. He asked permission to sing that's called behavior. Modification sleep with his fucking guy. How scary is Kemper. He's intelligent enough to manipulate just casually manipulate other serial killers into behaving how he wants him to behave. Always like Hannibal Lecter the level at the university of Santa Cruz. A warning is posted around this time to try and stop. You know, more code killings says when possible girls, especially stay indoors after midnight with doors. Locked if you must be out at night. Walk in pairs was not good because he'd kill impairs. If you see a campus police patrol car and wave they will give you a ride use the bus, even if somewhat inconvenient your safety is the first importance if you are leaving campus advise someone where you were going where you can be reached and the approximate time of your return. Don't hitch a ride please not enough people. Listen, despite a local press nineteen year old Cynthia and shawl made the terrible mistake of accepting a ride with on January as nineteen seventy two the same day. He'd purchase twenty two caliber, Ruger handgun. I went bananas after I got that twenty two camp would later say in an interview with front page. Detective Cynthia was babysitting to earn money from college one of her regular babysitting. Gigs was four Santa Cruz. Police officer Jim Connor who regularly had drinks with Kemper in the jury room. What a weird connection Connor would say of center, she was young needed money like everyone else, and she was a pleasant girl knowing she was a student at the university we felt safe and knew we could trust her with our children since he was on her way from her home in Santa Cruz to class at Cabrillo college, NAFTA's when she accepted campers. Right. He drove from Santa Cruz to nearby watsonville where he shot her with twenty two caliber weapon. Drove the body back to his mother's duplex where she was once again living the next day while his mother was away at work. He has sex with her dead body. Dismember Cynthia Paktia remains in plastic bags boxes and boxes. He stashed in his closet. Her head he buried outside his bedroom window as a way to keep her close January tenth to highway patrolman driving on highway one spots to severed human arms along the side of the road. A few days later human torsos found floated a lagoon near Santa Cruz two days after that the ghastly some surfer kennison waves south of Santa Cruz finds a left hand later soon after that a woman's pelvis washes up on shore each of the parts belong to Cindy and Shaul according to fingerprints and chest xrays only her head and right hand remained missing. After Texas had pieced together. The body parts had found like Macab horror puzzle. How'd you like it to be your job to arrange her body parts back together? Please determined she'd been sawed into pieces with power tools, February fifth nineteen Seventy-three Kemper and his mother get into a fight and the serial killer heads out enraged from the incident and looking for a kill. He says later, he tells investigators my mother, and I had a real tiff. I was pissed I told her I was going to a movie, and I jumped up and went straight to the campus because it was still early. It's guys language kills me. He's talking about doing the most heinous things, but he rarely. Rarely curses uses these odd were choices, you know, mother. And I had a real hum Dinger of a tiff that night Mendocino kept me peeved should cut me all round up and ready to Zappa l- mother makes me one example when she uses her potty mouth to slander and verbally instigate a tussle with her silly tomfoolery. Mother tomfoolery makes me wanna fuck some nex. God stated that he left his home knowing that the next good-looking girl, he would see would die. I might have. I I might not have been much to look at myself us eight, but I was always. But I always went for pretty girls. And I was so pissed I would have killed anyone who got in the car. Unfortunately to students who stay late to study missing the last buses to leave campus or the ones to accept his offer for a ride twenty two year old Rosalyn Thorpe was smart usually took the bus from her apartment downtown Santa Cruz to the university and back but on this day. She spends too much time studying he's a good student. Spend too much time studying library when a close at nine. She headed to the bus stop arms full of books hoping the last bus hadn't already passed her. Stop another person who could it could it went on to do. Great things. It was a rainy night when camper spotted her Senate the bus stop eliminated by streetlight. It was easy for him. Especially driving his nineteen sixty nine Ford with the university staff parking sticker to entice. The unlucky girl into his car can roll down the passionate window leaned out, telling Rosalyn the bus is gone. I know I've missed it before too. Can I give you lift it's pretty late the two drove a few blocks before Kemper noticed Alice? Lou twenty Twenty-one who also spent too long at the campus library, also studied too hard. She was wondering how she was going to get home from school when campers car slow down Lou notice, the university, staff stickers. Well, also notice roseland in the front seat. So she climb into the back seat. No worries whatsoever. I went on down a ways and slowed down Kemper later, recalled interviews, I remarked on the beautiful view all the while still driving down the road as if he was taking the girls to their desire destination. He's holding his gun, you know, from near his foot to his lap. He didn't picked it up quickly pull the trigger killing Rosalyn who slumped against the passenger door window debt in the backseat. Alice unsurprisingly is freaking the fuck out. Frantic panicking struggling to try to escape he starts firing out here. He says I had to fire through her hands. She was moving around and I miss twice. He finally hits around the temple. She wasn't yet. Daddy, shoots her again. According to some accounts, she may have still been alive in moaning loudly as he approached the entrance to the university. Even if she was still alive, you didn't stop Kemper from driving the girls to a security. Check point guard who saw campers university parking sticker believed his story that the girls were drunk, and he was just taking them back to their dorms. It was getting easier to do Kemper said, and I was getting better at it. So he instead of taking them back to the dorms. He takes them back to mother's house where he takes Alex Alice's body inside to have sex with it and Rosalyn in order to remove the bullet from her head to reduce risk of detection. Then he dismembers and beheads both girls despite taking precautions to not get caught like taking the bullet out of the one head around the time. He L starts getting more, reckless and cockatoos behavior. He loved the adrenaline rush of flirting with getting caught but not getting caught when he dismembered the girls bodies in his mother's house. He he didn't even close the curtains intense. She left him open. He said one of his neighbors was right there in their window. All they had to do is turn their head in order to see what he was doing. But they never did. The next morning camper. Tosses body parts of both girls and the ocean surrounding hills. Alameda County tosses the head separately from the rest of the bodies almost two weeks later after a storm struck elevated counties. Eden canyon road crew checking for damage from the heavy wind and rain saw what at the time. They thought were mannequins instead they found two decanes mutilated corpses. Both missing their heads. X-rays and descriptions girls their families would later determined that the bodies were those of Alice Liu and roseland Thorpe rather poor families having to identify their dead dead daughters. Especially in that way, less than two months later. Camper would kill his final two victims kill him in the same day. On Good Friday, nineteen Seventy-three April. Twentieth. Kemper worked half a day and before coming home contemplated, his mother's death which had been planning for a week. He came home late stopped in her bedroom to let her know he was home hoping that she would say something nice to him to stop what he felt was her inevitable murder instead of greeting him kindly the woman who was tucked into bed with the book said, oh my God. Now, I suppose you're going to want to stay up and talk all night. That's all he said that she said, oh my God. I suppose you're going to tackle night. He said I was hoping that she would say something that would stop this. But instead the last words we shared were a fight fight. Really, dude. It's late. He's not young. She probably has worked long week. So your mom doesn't wanna listen to your big creepy. Crazy S ramble on about your little fucking weaned problems. That's not a fight that someone just not being in the mood to deal with someone who's been a constant cat killing grandparents killing hoping to rape their sisters pain in their ass. I really expected harsher action to set off the murder something more dramatically. Oh my God. Now, I suppose you're going to want to stay up in an talk all night, you stupid fucking piece of shit. I hate you so much. I wish you were dead. Now to says doesn't wanna talk mothers. Always so quick to start a fight. Massey. Gets my samples in a real home thing or tizzy. She's always saying hateful stuff. Like, eddie. I'm tired on a wanna play battleship anymore. Oh, Eddie three m I have work. Eddie a want to watch another episode. Episode of art dream of Jeannie motor measurements, delaying were cut her head off put my pain or neck. So hurt. He's hurt. Kemper leaves the room goes own bed. Lays awake for several hours in early the next morning stewing over this. Final insult. You know, he decides this time he he's had enough. And in about five AM before the sun is up. He gets a he gets a claw hammer bashes her fucking head in. He goes, I wal- I walked in there with the hammer caved in the side of her head cut her throat. He then beheaded her then he fucks his own mother's head puts it ceremoniously on the mantle and uses it for a while for a dartboard. Jesus. He bashes his mom Senate. He cuts he cuts his mother's head off. He fucks his mom's head and then use it as Dr port. I've I've never been angry enough at anyone to even comprehend something to that level. Like, I've that level of rage is beyond my ability to comprehend and that could be pretty angry guy. And this guy could still be paroled. He is still eligible for bro. Can we please pass a new very specific law where if you ever cut anyone's head off and then fuck it and then use it as a dartboard at the very lease. You never get to get out. You never get to get out. He yells and screams that are headlights throwing darts at it says it through darts that our face is still not done. Then he then he cuts out lyrics. He cuts out her tongue. And he tries to put them in the garbage disposal. The machine the garbage kicks back remnants of of tissue and blood back into his face. He would say later that seemed appropriate as much as she'd bitched and screamed at yelled at me over so many years five. Doc, he can admit and talk about this. Call me like what he did was the equivalent of is a harmless little spat father. Mother, and we go to a lot of little fight over the years. Usually, I could just brush things off put one time. I had to cut her head off affect with it play some dark, and wouldn't you wouldn't you know, it when I put her tongue in the garbage disposal. It kind of screamed back at me. So mother that so mother to shoot your your tongue felt at my face. Even after I've folk your head. Despite all this violence Kemper felt like he still couldn't get his mom's voice that of his head. He said even when she was dead. She was still bitch at me. I couldn't. I couldn't get shut up. He said. To take his mind off his mother he heads to the bar where he tosses back a few drinks. This cop Buddy's still doesn't help his distant urges still not been satisfied. So then that evening, you know, he's killed his mom early that morning this evening. He does something else to hurt his mother. He kills someone else's mother cared about he calls, his mother's best friend fifty nine year old Sally Hallett invites over for dinner, less than twenty four hours after killing his mom. She comes over that night twenty twenty-first. And this is how he kills his mother's best friend. He says I came up behind her and cooked my arm around her neck around her neck like this. He tells a reporter later demonstrating, you know, he bends his arm up to his chin like a chokehold kind of position. He says I squeezed and just lifted her off the floor. Remember, he's six nine very strong. She just hung there. And for a moment. I didn't realize she was dead. I had broken her neck and her head was just wobbling around with the bones of her neck disconnected in the skin sack. Back of her neck as a quote from him Kemper, then spends the rest of that night fucking the dead body of his mother's best friend. Then drives away from the bloody scene in Hallett's car. He leaves behind a note for police near his mother's body says approximately five fifteen a m Saturday no need for her to suffer anymore at the hands of this murderous butcher. It was quick asleep. The way I wanted it not sloppy and incomplete Gentz Gentz. He says just a lack of time. I got things to do five points. He's just writing his drinking buddies little note. Hey, hey, guys fell us here. Here's the deal. Sorry about the mess. But I got a jet. You know, how it is that after, you know, kill people fuck some heads. You gotta get outta town. So now campers on the run briefly camera began down in camp caffeine pills before ditch and is car Nevada where he rents a Chevy Impala. He drives for hours before landing in Pueblo. Colorado once there on April twenty thirty pulls over calls, the Santa Cruz police from a telephone booth and confesses to murdering his mother, I guess he just didn't feel like living on the run. Maybe didn't want upset his buddies. Maybe just missed the structure of incarceration Santa Cruz. Police are surprised when they received a phone call from loofah Pueblo phone booth. And you know, confess. No, this first police think he's joking. How how could there too keen eleven buddy? Who always said he would have been a copy if he hadn't been, you know, so big done something. So despicable the. Yeah. They don't believe him. The call gets accidentally disconnected and the and the police just you know, they just write it off as a prank. Ed, good come on, man. That's why did you say jokes her see next week Durham, but then camera calls back another officer Jim Connor the one? Who's babysitter died at the hands of the code killer. He takes the call. And he says he says later knowing that I got on the phone. We started talking. I could tell something wasn't right. He hadn't had any sleep. He had done something really bad. He said that he'd killed his mother, and a friend of hers said they were at the house said I killed my mother and her friend, and I kill those college girls, I kill six of them. And I can show you where I hid the pieces of their bodies Connor kept Kemper on the phone and sent officers to campers mother's house shortly after they arrived. They find campers mother in the middle aged best friend hid in a closet. It's in the closet. We pulled back to sheet and saw some and some blood another officer would say, the claw hammer was there. I guess there was a three foot sabre with a curved, bloody blade. He used in some fashion during these acts Santa Cruz police contacted their Pueblo counterparts who dispatched to officers to the phone booths were camper was waiting still telling his story to the Santa Cruz. Cops. The first officer reached Kemper have been warned about Kemper size. And the fact that he was armed approaching with caution again six nine at this time apparently was to eighty Kemper was big enough to Beatty mountain lion with a switch Pueblo chief of police Robert may would later say, but he put up no resistance during the arrests came out of the phone booth with his arms in front of him preparing to be handcuffed. He was asked about his hands up. He so fucking big. He puts his hands up on top of the photo booth or the phone booths gives me police asked where his weapons were. He tells them in the trunk of the Paula. And then just starts talking about the gory specifics of his crimes he talked and talked and talked said an officer who had been sent to Pueblo to escort camper back to Santa Cruz. He said a lot of things that were. Disturbed. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I bet he did apparently talked about how satisfying fucking someone's head was disturbing. They travel from Colorado back to California camper sits in the back seat shackled and handcuffed at night. He'd be house and local jails along the route during the day, they would stop for lunch. Local drive in restaurants at one lunch spot. Two young women walked by the car causing Kemper to vomit a reaction. He would say he had often in response to attractive women at least attractive women who are not under his control such a strange relation ship, psychologically to it. Once they were back in Santa Cruz police impounded campers batter yellow Ford, where they find human hair, some blonde brunette some some munition bullet Kemper failed to extract from an interior panel blood in the back seat. Search the trunk yields more hair along with you know, tools of his including shovel raincoat water bottle. No, no reason to be dehydrated when you're out fucking murdering people in an Amel coated dish pan. Meanwhile, Kemper took police on a grisly. Tour showing them numerous places where he'd thrown hidden or buried body parts of his victims Kemper, and the police I stopped Alameda County where Kemper had lived for time his own apartment took them several sites. Redeposited the decapitated heads and other parts some victims all the bodies were then twenty miles of campers mother's apartments. That's not a coincidence. All this death, man. All of it seems to always get traced back to the regime fell feels towards mother, and that isn't it will continue with the time line. But that is enough of today's super scary stuff. Smart. Smells jump up a little bit too may seven thousand nine hundred seventy three when Kemper is indicted on eight counts of first degree murder. He's assigned the chief public defender of Santa Cruz county turn Jim Jackson due to campers explicit and detailed confession. His counselors only option is to plead not guilty by reason of insanity to the charges Kemper twice tried to commit suicide in custody survives. Both temps is trial. Goes ahead on October twenty third nineteen Seventy-three during his trial. He claims that he ate parts of his victims. But later would recant that admitted he only said it to try to get that insanity. Verdict on November first Kemper took the stand. He testified that he killed the women because he wanted them for myself like possessions, and attempted to convince the jury that he was insane. Based on the reasoning that his actions could only have been committed by somebody with an average mind, which I gotta agree with. But in the in the legal technical sense. You know, he knew what he was doing when he planted knew that he was trying to get away with it. So he wasn't that kind of insane. He said to be. Beans inhabited his body. And that when the killer personality took over it was kind of like blackout. Of course, he's referring to his apples that make them do things. On November eighth nineteen Seventy-three the six man six woman jury convenes for five hours before declaring campers sane and guilty on all counts. He asks for the death penalty requesting death by torture. I mean, he knows he's not going to get that, however with the moratorium placed on capital punishment by the supreme court the time we've talked about this in reference to other California Syrah colors he instead received seven years to life for each count can't be given the death penalty. These terms are to be served concurrently, and he sends to the California medical facility. And then this this part blows my fucking mind in nineteen Seventy-nine Kemper is up for parole for the first time he's up for parole. Six years later. I he didn't get it. He didn't get how in wo world is that an option after someone has done those things and that takes us out of today's time suck timeline. Good job soldier made it back, man. Can't believe I haven't. I hadn't heard about this dude before story is so crazy if you found yourself like me darkly fascinated with camper, your your far from alone. The FBI was so fascinated by Kemper he became a major part of the early. Studies done by the F B is behavioral science units will become that unit. You know, the agents that would form that unit this unit that figured out how to profile serial killers nineteen seventies. The FBI came up with the idea that by visiting prisons and talking to horrific serial killers. They could learn more about their motives Kemper was one of the serial killers. They talked to one of the ones ended up talking to the most. And he was such a charming son of a bitch. Some of the agents admit to liking him at a very high Q as we said, he was very articulate the ideal person you'd want to interview he was able to provide a lot of insights as to why these offenders commit these crimes FBI agents were able to identify some common characteristics and backgrounds among serial killers. We normally would not have known about for instance, that they tortured animals as kids. So why would Kemper though want to help the FBI? Well, because Certa killers in general tend to to enjoy reliving their dark experiences helps pass the time in jail for one thing. It's definitely not about helping the police. They're not doing this out of any kind of goodwill. They always act like the are fought bull shit. They're doing it to feel important and special narcissists. They love having the focus on them. You know, and a lot of cases like embassies people score high on the on psychopathy kind of scales, which which is distinguished by feelings of narcissism low impulse control and grandiosity, you know, they they just feel important and powerful talking to the police I want I wanted to before we go to to look into what some other people think about Ed Kemper, and I did find some interesting insights on today's idiots of the internet. Injured that. For today's video. I watched you know, one of these interviews done within camper, you know, where he gives a lot of the kind of you know, answer a lot of the type questions at the FBI profiler would learn from him. It's called interview seventy four first of two published on June seventeenth two thousand seven over one point five million views us your Joseph Matthews offer. Some interesting insight about campers mother now, I'm not sure where he gets his info. But but I liked to thought this is what really made me kind of start to lean back more towards the the nature side of him being just evil. He posts his sister said his mother was a Saint who has never abusive co-worker said she was a pillar of the community and had a vibrant social life in a network of friends only Ed ever said she was abusive almost as though he might be a psychopath that perceives even the tiniest criticism as a great injustice anyone consider that she never sexually or physically abused him. Stop falling for his lies and use your brains. She only. Wanted locking him in his bedroom in the basement after he molested his sisters. That's a pretty reasonable response in context. Wouldn't you think? And I don't know if he did that. But he's referring to something I couldn't find when you study violent offenders, you have to also take into consideration the families opinions because psychopaths cannot accept responsibility. I do love that exactly Joseph. You can't trust. What he says he by nature is a master manipulator. He's a fucking psychopath with a genius IQ. He's really good at manipulating human nip related psychiatrists the save silly into let him out girl up to girl into getting into the car with them. You know, I imagine he manipulated, you know, probably those FBI I profiles as well. And he's manipulating people to this day through his through his, you know, videos that are out on on YouTube. And I'll get to that in a second with some other internet comments about how people like seem to really like, this guy, still user user hostile narwhal. Did what I expected to happen. But still still made me laugh you put the inappropriate joke bowl right on the T posting I wanna get into his head. And then users not a Dench. Takes a swing saying. That's what he said about his victims. Hashtag too soon. Joker swings to say. Like he wanted to get into his mother's head Andrew Durham punches up to jokers attempt a little bit posing, hopefully, not as deep as he got into his mother said, and then Chuck Bradford closes it out with he wants in your head to. Cynthia Snowden harmlessly posts, it just shows how this grow some people are all she poses. I kill cou my friend was the one who led him back into the car and then Bella sweetie pie. Replies. With are you replies? With you. Sure. Seem to want the whole world to know. She was your friend. Are you not getting enough intent attention in your life? Oh, bella. You don't seem sweet at all. You don't seem like a sweetie pie. You seem like a shithead pie. Yushu want the whole world to know that you're an outspoken fucking asshole who need us the attack. Somebody who may have actually lost her friend who serial killer or you not getting enough attention and your life Bella sweetie pie. And then a lot of the comments on the YouTube video are just very positive towards and Kemper. He's so good at getting people to like him. They talk about how intelligent interesting charming likable e- seems talking about he seems like a lot of comments take this angle of seems like a good guy. The just got screwed over by his mom. I don't like it. And. Either does user Kabeer or KAI who posts the people sympathizing with him are some of the most naive dumb asses in today's generation it said, oh, he so interesting and intelligent. I kind of understand where he's coming from. It's his mom's fault. I wish I could move away to another galaxy and then one of the people he clearly is mocking identity. I dead ask how to dream be replies. With cool yourself, and you have to be around anymore to hear these people. Okay. Okay. Well, if we're going to go there and throw that on the table, you could also kill yourself during be, and then you wouldn't have to be around people like people like him who think rationally people who don't like your your fucking shitty of you of the world. I mean, again, if you're just gonna throw suicide on the table another option to consider you could also he was a piece of shit dream be Ed kempter at camper was not a victim. Hope. He dies soon. He has lived far too long already. The that. All right before a few final thoughts on campus. I wanna share some of his most memorable quotes. I mean, again, dude is a monster. But he's an interesting monster. He has some very memorable quote. This one. He says one side of me says he's referring to like what he thinks when he sees a girl. On side of me says I'd like to talk to her date her. The other side of me says I wonder what her head would look like on a stick. He says also I remember there was actually a sexual thrill. You hear that little pop and pull their heads off and hold their heads up by the hair whipping their heads off their body sitting there that had get me off that is so fucking terrified Elsa says. If I killed them, you know, they couldn't reject me as a man it was more of less making doll out of a human being and carrying out my fantasies with the doll a living in Delhi. I think we heard a part of that before. But yeah. With with Ed camper story. I kept thinking about his brief stay in his psychiatric hospital. He was young. I mean, I mean, yes, he was admitted when he was just a kid, but it wasn't like a six year old kid. He was a few months away from turning sixteen. He killed both grandparents to people who didn't have to take him into their home to people who didn't physically abuse him to people who may have not have even ever verbally abused him. He kills one to see what it feels like he kills the other to not get caught should someone like that ever ever be let out again, I would love to see some stats on the amount of time. Someone like that has been released from prison or release them sites. Data. Take care. And and know what the recidivism rate is like has anyone ever done something that heinous Denman released, and then just, you know, been fine. Then just, you know, lived a long life, you know, outside of incarceration, never doing anything horrible. Again, has that ever happened has it ever happened to somebody young and still formidable like one thing to release a murder when they're eighty five and they can't get around to to kill different when they're twenty one. If it happens all the time, I guess I may have to think my thoughts on rehabilitation, currently, I think there are limits on what you can come back from certain crimes thefts, you know, like like barroom brawl type of assault arson. I'm sure plenty of other crimes and not thinking of right now. I'm sure you you can mend the error of your ways, you know, and come back, and I know you can but but when you murder your grandparents that's crossing such different line in cold blood. No less. I don't I don't think you come back from that. And this is not even talking about. Should you be able to like should you have the option of coming back from that? I'm just like is it actually possible? Could you kill a str-? Ranger cut their head off literally fuck their head. And then ten years later just be, you know, working Jumba juice, enjoying your life. Now being a threat to anybody. Just don't see that as possibility I actually ended up googling Kenneth serial killer be rehabilitated and the first link that popped up with a psychology today. Article post on August eleventh two thousand fourteen says psychopathic criminals cannot be cured Scott a bond PHD, professor of criminology rights, contrary to popular belief psychopaths are not considered to be mentally ill, the fifth edition of the diagnostics in statistical manual of mental disorders DSM five released by the APA. The American psychiatric association list psychopathy under the heading of antisocial personality disorders key traits of the psychopaths include a disregard for laws and social Moore's a disregard for the rights of others. A failure to feel remorse or guilt. A tendency to display violent behavior psychopathy is a personality disorder that is exhibited by. Who employ combination of charm manipulation intimidation sometimes violence to control others in order to satisfy their own selfish. Desires describes Ed Kemper to AT. It is estimated that approximately one percent of the adult male population. The US for psychopaths, which is fucking scary men are more likely the women to be psychopaths. And there's this Kennesaw, Ken psychopathy be cured. According to mental health experts. The short answer to the question is no Dr Nigel Blackwood leading forensic psychiatrist at King's College. In London has stated the adult psychopaths can be treated or managed, but not cured based like whether incarcerated you can use like incentives. Like, hey, if you're good, you get a fucking TV to watch every once in a while to get them to you know. Modify their behavior. But if you put them back onto the wild, you know, when they're not supervise they're gonna go fucking bananas. Again, Blackwood explains that psychopaths do not fear the pain of punishment. They're not bothered by social stigmatisation psychopaths are indifferent to the expectations of society, reject its condemnation of their criminal behavior. According to Blackwood, another callous and unemotional psychopaths simply do not respond to punishment the way the rest of us. Do consequently adult psychopaths in prison are much harder to reform or rehabilitate than other criminals with milder or no, antisocial personality disorders and other things. I found said that they cannot be rehabilitated. So there you go. They cannot be cured. Not in any way that we currently know have no of so can we please stop giving monster like this piece of shit the option of parole ever? I mean, I'd like to have them killed but short of that can we at least make sure they can never ever get out, man. I wish not that. He would care does that could say that the Kemper nothing would care. Oh, strongly disagree. With your statement. You're sounding like mother, man. You're kidding my samples route in a tizzy wished. I could cut your head off and make sexual to teach you to be more tolerant time now for top five takeaways time. Die by taking away. Number one Certa killer. Ed camphor killed ten people between nineteen sixty four nineteen Seventy-three killed his grandparents nineteen sixty four killed six hitchhikers, mostly coeds, and then his mother and mother's best friend in nineteen seventy two and early nineteen Seventy-three number two camper. A huge man adds a level of terror to him another level of terror six nine before he was caught a around what two hundred and eighty pounds and strong incredibly physically intimidating killer. Number three, smart guy. His I q despite never going beyond community college and very little of that was tested as high at one forty five the genius level. Early number four number four is early. FBI profiler spent a tremendous amount of time with Kemper studying the association between serial killers and childhood sadism that association, you know, of cruelty to animal with zero killers largely comes from early with Kemper. A number five new info the second episode of the hit Netflix series, mind hunter, largely about at Kemper. And from what I hear. It's very accurate. Portrayal features seen were FBI agents. Try not to vomit when Ed talks about how pleasurable it is to fuck someone's head. So if you haven't gotten your fill of head fucking. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know go go. Check it out time. Top by take away. Camper has been sucked ban. Maybe just maybe if we would have gotten, you know, if you would actually got a little Wayne suck Delamore often the young men maybe wouldn't have fallen into head sex. Now, I doubt it I doubt it. I think once you put a cat head on a stick. And prayed it around I think your fate is sealed in some form. Thank you the time. So team thanks to the Queen of the suck Lindsey Cummins managed. She allow me the time I need to do. These episodes takes team takes takes village in a way to do this podcast. And she's she's number one teammate also thanks to Cuyler Monroe for being cooled with dad working on this so much, and I hope you don't hear this for a long time. Because I I'd rather you not listen to this one thanks to high priestess of the Cellcom Veldkamp. Jesse guardian of grammar Dobler, Reverend Dr Joe paisley time suck high priest. Alex Dugan guys bid laser danger, brain axes, apparel knowledge ninja had the Rylander for another great episode. And thanks to all of you who listen and allow us to transition this from just a podcast to really kick ass community. The does so much have you joined a community joined the colts that curious private Facebook group yet is the easiest to be a member of I have not yet tried to fuck a single member of the cult other than my. Wife, and I probably don't try a hard enough with her need to give more free time. There's a FINA there are six thousand times suckers in the private cults curious group on Facebook. You can join discord as well. That's your preference, or you know, if you just want to do that one over thousand discord members now linked to discord chatroom messaging app right in the time. So cap. Linked to the private Facebook group to enter the discharge channel in today's episode description as well. Next up on the suck. It is the legend of Mosman November twelfth nineteen sixty six and West Virginia five grave diggers working in the cemetery noticed something that the describes the Brown human being flew over their heads. It's kind of crazy. There was five of them. Notice this gliding from tree to tree. This is the first reported sighting of what would come to be known as the Mossman an elusive creature that although now widely celebrated by the town at once terrorized remains as mysterious as it was in the night that I frightened few witnesses laid eyes upon it three days after that. Initial report nearby point pleasant West Virginia, two couples notice to white winged creature about six or seven feet tall. Standing in front of the car. They were all seated in some believe, the Mothman is a harbinger of doom and seen him spells disaster imminent disaster. I think maybe the Mothman is a harbinger of kick ass idiots of the internet comments because we're going to have a fucking gold mine on the predict that now. Okay. So now, let's see what the cult of this next Monday. Now, let's see what the cult of the curious. Has to say right now in today's time sucker updates. In times under up day. Another db Cooper update from Eric are evil had to prep in record this one before Cleopatra even came out. So obviously no Cleopatra updates yet. I'm sure a lot of pronunciation updates are coming without one. That episode was real I was real mouth battle ahead and listen to your podcast Eric's at the blitz your podcast pretty much nonstop since. You're Tacoma comedy club date last fall. You may remind remember me I was the one who has a lot of questions about your Idaho tattoo. Oh, yeah. And how I wanted one of Washington the same place. Yeah. I do remember that frankly, I've been a fan of stand up for years. But for some reason didn't even realize you had a podcast now. I'm hooked. I got advertise. It more. We'll be doing this year during each episode. I think of something you right to write you about but has gone by the time the episode ends this time. However, I remember I just listened to your db Cooper episode and wanted to let you know, the Cooper asked for four parachutes not to I used to work for the Washington state historical society, and we had an exhibit about Cooper in two thousand thirteen in fact, one of the actual shoots and our permanent collection. You. Can see it at then list the link which will be in the notes the show notes on the app and website for the episode that you can link to you're listening. Four shoots were provided by local business as you said and were kept in an F B I evidence lockup all these years when they recently closed the case, officially the gentlemen who owned shoot business back in nineteen seventy-one contacted them and actually asked to have his parachutes back and they comply giving him the three remaining shoots. He then donated one to the Washington state historical society, we've displayed publicly from time to time museum. Hope you get a chance to check it out next time you have a gigging Tacoma also after the Cooper episode. I went to the electric Crawley episode Amelie heard you talking about name changes. And that your middle name is Brent Daniel, Brent Cummins. DB Commons d b Cooper pooper coincidence. You decide I. Yeah. My initials are D. That's true. I didn't put that together on sucking. And if you could mention my website, I'd be internally grateful. I've a passion for discovering and sharing the history, heritage and culture of Washington state to my blog, videos and podcasts there's. Go fund me drive on the side as well as I'm trying to raise money for creating entertaining educational videos that we could give the history teachers across Washington. Sincerely, Eric are evil. Love. How you put that's evil Moshe mouth. And then Washington our home dot com will thank you, Eric. You know, I really appreciate you clearing up that to versus where backpacks now joking because I kept going back and forth. I had as four for a while at a two for a while that it back as four went back to to several sources said to some said four some said two packs of shoots like like a an each pair kind of had two different shoots. Like, a one over your back in one that kind of went around your waist, very confusing. Thankful to have so many smart listeners like yourself able to fill in these holes, and your website is awesome. Good good for you. For preserving local history is a very comprehensive websites that website the link is also today's notes if anybody wants to check it out. Yeah. Awesome. Have good for you man for preserving history. And I got your other washing suck topics as well. You keep on sucking, my friend cool information update coming in. Vindicate says, hey, Dan will listen to the Pinkerton episode which I recognize is over a month old apologies. If someone's already made you aware they have shared an update. So thank you. You mentioned not being able to get to an article because of paywall sixty bucks for twenty four hour access to one article wanted to let you know about scwhab. It's a great way to get around unnecessary. Pay walls might help some research. All you need to do as input the articles DO. I thanks for the great podcasts. You in Bridgeport next week. I will see you Kevin in British four. Thank you the link to the service, you talk about I guess by the time you hear this. I may. Yeah. May have already I guess, I think Bridgeport coming up here. The URL eventually becomes unpaid wall dot org. And that'll be the link to that is also in today's show notes on the app websites. If anyone wants to use it and from everything I can tell this unpaid wall dot org is legal. It's fact page says yes, we harvest content from legal sources, including repositories run by universities, governments scholarly societies as well as open content hosted by publishers themselves, and I've had other time suckers right in and say that the authors of these studies if there were if they were going to get paid have already been paid. So you're not taking money out of their pockets by using that so yeah. For doing your research. And if you research is out there, unpaid wall dot or have not full disclosure. I have not yet tried to use it. It does seem like a very usable. And an interesting site that could be very helpful. Now question about why don't do other podcasts very often coming in from to time sucker Kevin fitzmorris who writes so throw me on the fucking cross. But my question is every time you do a time. So at the time sucks itself when I did that when you self you never really explain why you don't do more pod. Cast outside your own. I searched the time looking from my boy Dan comes to podcasts hoping you to expand your podcasts. And my like of other podcasts by slamming verbiage on said podcasts when you came to Sacramento may of eighteen I definitely fan Boyd on the machine podcast with Burke Chrysler instead of telling you how much I love your own podcast because that was the last one I heard I know he would book you out if you just asked whenever you're way, I think you should be doing other podcasts like your mom's house. Joe Rogan a loved Chrysler's podcast. He seemed like a pretty chill fellow SARFU came across aggressive just a huge fan have been since. Oh, nine it. Should. I'm just an overbearing I feel like I've questions and he answered because I have no boundaries when it comes as levies. I dig your style. Keep on keeping on my dude hail Nimrod PS Colella was my favorite app. I dig guest feature for what it's worth a little hammered, please excuse the countless manic rambling and grammatically earth. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate your saying. You know, the reason is a combination that I don't love the podcast combination of time and location. Live in an Idaho. Not other other not a lot of other podcasts to be on around. Here. You know podcast was, you know, bigger comedic audiences then when I'm in L A or New York City. I just I've had so many other things to do lately that there's not a lot of time to do other pockets. I keep meaning to reach out to more. I'm sure I will reach out more eventually, and hopefully, we'll do more. I did have a manager that was reached out to to Rogan and just couldn't get on. So I have tried Rogan. And and I do feel like he'll get on their eventually, I feel like the opportunity will just come up organically. Eventually right now just have too many things I'm focused on doing here. And you know, beat podcast stand up life other behind the scenes, thanks, but yeah, thank you for the interest. Now an anonymous. Thank you message coming in from who the hell knows they're anonymous saying Hello, Dan. And everybody in the times that failing crew I know my name is in the Email address. But if you choose to share this out prefer to be kept an anonymous did it I listened to the Devi Cooper sock. And at the end there were a few suckers that brought up there. The brought up their own or their friends mental. Illness it convinced me to share my hopefully short story of how this podcast is helped me it. It is going to be short. I have had my own issues, and sort of this scaping from my own thoughts using comedy that brought me to the commies to your conversation on Pandora, you became an instant favourite while listening to your station and advertise came up with an hooked ever since. Now podcasts are my only form of escape from my brain. But my escape from my comfort zone. You voiced many times about people who are wishy washy with their lives and who can't make decisions I began to realize. That's who I was. I've been making excuses for myself about my life not going how I wanted. I now realize it's up to me to change the future. Yes, that's true. Since I can't change the past when I find myself making excuses. I think what would the income and say you and all those who make this podcast run of motivated me to go forth with something I've put off for a while joining the military. Thank you to everyone of the times that community, and especially thank you, Dan for helping me regain, my ambition. Keep on fucking suck. And thank you for your upcoming service. Anonymous soccer man, happy that you're chasing your dreams, man. Go. Out there kick some ass. It's beautiful beautiful thing following what you're passionate about him, Rama friend. Then finally interesting Email from Corey bell. Great reminder. That words matter words, matter words, we put out there into the universe. And that restraints can be good. Sometimes escalating the situation just not worth it cord rights. Hey master sucker first off. I appreciate everything you do. Although sometimes you talk about some intense horrible things, you know, how to bring happiness to listeners until a great story. How intense one today man, I wanted to tell my own story in which you have impacted me a lot I have an infant and a three year old who are my world one day, we're at the library with my wife and checking out books, my sons, and I decided to go to our car early when my wife is finishing up. We walks to our car opened the door is important understand. I had our one year old in my arms was holding my three year old's hand. I let go of my three year old hand and opened the door when this happened. He started to run into the parking lot. He had not been listening, which I'm sure you understand. Yeah. Three year olds. It's like herding cats. And it was a stressful day. I let the door go in tapped the car beside me, I got my son and put both of them in the car. I had not noticed. But there was an older lady that was in the car. She got out, and I told her I was sorry for letting that happen explained situation, we shut my door and about two or three centimeters of paint had shipped off her car, knowing this was totally my fault. I apologize offered. My insurance. I want to take responsibility. Even though it was not militias around purpose. The lady declined my insurance, but then started pacing behind her car asked again, if she wanted my insurance, and she said, no, but the next couple of cents is it came out of her mouth were astonishing. She stated that my son who's still three years old because only about two minutes it went by should not only know better, but should have more responsibility to hold the door open or not run. She didn't say that. I should teach him better. It's not damage people's cars the fire of loose. Athena was raised in my eyes and heart glared at her a glare that might send bojangles hide under the dinner table, while this was happening voice came into my head. It was you grandmaster sucker stating you have so much more to lose another's. Remember the episode? When you got on a tangent about how we react to situations. When other people are being asked hats, a took a deep breath. Listen to the voice new I had so much more to lose. And this old lady ever will. I asked her a second time if she wanted my sheri- and she declines, oh, yes. That's a third time. Actually, but still stood there at this point. My wife came out and lady started lecture. Her was my wife did not back down asking if she had kids. Can you not give grace to three year old father trying to get into the car lady continuously say that I should be a better father and learn although I have offered our insurance three different times. I asked the final time, she declined. Again, I told her this conversation was over and she scurried into library. I know this probably sounds like a silly little story. But after thinking about it, I can honestly say that your words mean more than you know, you are person that said, we have more to lose and others, and I truly have been seen that in this to solve that in this situation. I had more loose. I did what I thought was right by trying to take responsibility. It was declined. But sometimes people still wanna be assholes if anything I just wanted to share this story to show that even little tangents during this show have meaning and to keep up the great work, man. Thank you Corey. Thank good. Call me. Good call. I love how you had low that I know it can be just fucking rip somebody a new one for being. Asset. I think about literally every single fucking day. But sometimes it a lot of the times most of the time probably probably overwhelming majority. It's just not worth it. You know, at her age odds are she's not gonna stop in an asset. Now, the lecture isn't gonna be able to you know, what I should fucking. It's sixty five or seventy whatever she transformed myself an entirely New Jersey. You know, but you also stood your ground. I think that's great. You know? I mean, if she would have went crazy like called, your kid, a racial, slur or some equally offensive slur. Then I say, you know, you know, fucking let it rip on that bitch. Yeah. Ceo kinds of crazy stuff. But yeah. Generally now worth it. I was actually I actually had some restraint myself. This would have been a week and a half ago now is with the kids it what was supposed to be an all ages kinda Monroe all the outdoor pool situation that have been advertised as being like family time, they're doing quote, unquote, family hours. We get their drunken shit show with people literally falling down drunk tiny bikinis Yellen all kinds of profane sexual just stupid shit like a bunch of dirtbag fucking degenerates. And I and I get it. If you're going to act that way, if it's like an inclusive kind of adults only situation, but like man fucking kids around you piece of shit. I wanted to go off I knew there were so drunk. It didn't matter. So I did go off on the staff. Definitely a lot of profanities flight. And I was like what the fuck you guys doing here. I was talking to these people what kind of shit show where you assholes running a very angry. I was like, oh my fucking money back, and and they backed down immediately wanted to politics, but I'm like, you're not even talking to people. It was very upset kind of than asked. If I was going to talk this one drunk couple like this guy was prob. I don't know sixty five is falling down drunk. And I think he knows my sense of humor. He wanted. He wanted to kind of like we were laughing at him, and he wanted me to interact further. And I was like dude just no just be quiet. There was no point in going. There is not worth interacting escalating. And then all of a sudden your dad is going to jail for beating the shit out of a sixty five year old drunk fuck. Yes. Restraint can be very good thing. You know, kind of Monroe we went back back to this hotel. We're lens we all staying. She was trying to be there too. But there's long story was message. She couldn't even get there is a mess. And you know, what the police didn't need to be called? We joked about it. We call them down. We had a laugh about half an hour later, and you know, no one got in trouble in life went on. So yes, yes. Restraints good. Good job, man. Thanks for all the time. Sucker updates everybody. Thanks times nine we all did. That's all for today. Time suckers. He'll nimrods. Don't kill anyone this week. Don't kill anyone this week focused on that. If for some reason, you do end up killing someone please fuck head or neck, and you know, keep on sucking. Mothers tomfoolery makes me one. A fuck. Some nex.

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124 - Mothman

Timesuck with Dan Cummins

2:06:37 hr | 1 year ago

124 - Mothman

"The mythology of the crypto zoological creature known as Mosman begins on November twelfth nineteen sixty six on that day. Five men were digging a grave at a cemetery in Clendenin, West Virginia, and one of them claim to witness a man like creature fly over their heads a creature. He in other witnesses in the coming days would describe as a terrifying large man like gray monster with glowing red eyes and roughly ten foot wingspan they could fly speeds anywhere from impossibly slow two hundred miles an hour. The Mothman creature would be described by some as not having a head at all to huge ominous. Red is set inside his chest is consistently reported to be glowing. Or at least reflective the details of his face. If he even has a face if he even is a he and his feet have never been adequately described one witness who did claim to see his face said a said they saw his face. Clearly could only say that the details were horrible and monstrous she had terrible. Nightmares? Suffered a nervous. Breakdown. Most report getting close look at the Mothman seemed to suffer from extreme fear and psychological distress sometimes lasting for months or years afterwards in particular, people say that sense of pure evil overcomes them when they look into moss man's is the legend demoss, man. Most deciding strangely center around the class of a bridge on December fifteenth nineteen sixty seven the silver bridge that rose above the Ohio river, the connected point pleasant West Virginia and galop lease Ohio collapsed and took the lives of forty six people and ever since stories have abounded connecting this claps Tomasz man was this creature trying to warn locals that something bad was going to happen. Didn't know the bridge would collapse is Mosman head or no head some harbinger of impending doom some bizarre creature trying to save the lives of those who died on December fifteenth. This is what some still belief or is this all just a bunch of crazy wackadoo to horse shit is the legend nothing. More than the collective product of overactive imaginations and a few creative writers trying to exploited. Those imaginations always have to entertain that possibility when it comes to the paranormal the story Mothman would never have become part of of American clipped zoological folklore from work for the nineteen seventy book the silver bridge written by noted ufologist, gray Baker gray Barker. And then there was the MAs man prophecies, another important piece of the Mothman cana- written by another ufologist and journalist John keel in one thousand nine hundred seventy five we're gonna look at the story of man from all sides, stay from absolute believers to get the hell out of here. There's no way that happened deniers today, we're going to dig into the tale of a creature that inspired the two thousand two Richard Gere and Laura Linney thriller. Love me, some Laura Linney of the Maas ban process. A movie based on the nineteen seventy five book of the same name. It's also movie the scare the shit out of my wife Lindsey. And when she had when she first saw an a movie, Chicago reader critic, Lisa, Al. Specter called the scariest movie I've ever seen will today's tale scare you does the Mosman give you the he gbs or will this all just be a big whack doodle Gasser of a tail find out today as we dive into the strange and hard to explain today on time suck. State. Happy Monday time. Suckers hail you hail. The mighty time sucker trailblazer on various pass curiosity hail. The culture the curious hail Nimrod and Lucina 's will praise triple suite bojangles such could boy such a good boy time suck is brought to you again today by Brome, the Brome podcasts and not to say it. Now Brome is a show. But how it's okay to be do. But but I'll do should be better do each week on Brome Joe. And Ben pick a topic. They think dudes could use a little help with and based on what I've heard so far. I think this info was fantastic for ladies as well. It's fantastic everyone suite on Brome the guys discuss ways to enjoy art without being like, a wind swirling jerk, right? What are the benefits of changed up? Your teen. Seeing something new would you feel better if you had a different possibly more artistic creative outlet this week Ben and Jo chat with Portland artists. Brice Wong and Alex moan about ways to dip toes into the art world. Tune in. Each week for new topics new discussions new ways to continue seeking enlightenment through dead. Lifts Brome it up Brahmin up. Everybody WWW dot B R O A, M dot com. For more info. You just listen to it. Where you listen to podcasts. Lincoln the episode description or you can just push the button and the sponsor section of the time suck app or the time stuff website. Love these guys, man. Good dudes. Good, dude. Thanks to everyone who came out to to providence, Bridgeport, Albany New Brunswick, whether the crowd was small or the room was sold out. The energy was fantastic. Every single show worked out a lot of new material have an awesome, enthusiastic crowds. When you're when you're getting new stuff up and running is just the best pumped really really popped down for the rest of the stand up shows this year has as nervous nervous to take a month off and then try and come up with a fair amount of new material quick now, I feel real good. Now, there's gonna be the best our standup I've ever done very very excited going to have more with the happy murder shows this next week. In Wisconsin in Madison. Those shows are packing out Saturday early show may already be sold out a comedy on state. Are you ready for the happy murder tour? Are you ready for the first live time of two thousand nineteen right? The ant hill kids a Canadian tale of fire and brimstone maniac. Co-leader father and twenty six kids torturing followers in the most ridiculous ways getting the rest of his followers kind of help with the torture. Before finally meeting his own violent end. So has has a good ending. So that's nice. It's a hell of a true crime story. A lot of whack doodle in this one been awhile since we sucked into craziest cult and this is the craziest calls bringing the happy murder tour to Philly the following week. And then both live podcast and stand up to downtown Salt Lake City soon after than zanies in Nashville, just let's just found a new great Nashville ban, by the way, called Republican hair. Weird name not a huge fan of the name. So weird name. But really really like it really like a lot actually checkout. Dan. Komen dot TV in for a full year fund shows more life sucks coming up in Cleveland in April Nashville in April comedy festival Spokane in San Francisco and may Orlando in August, Phoenix and September Tempe technically than Denver Grand Rapids into coma end of the year. And that's going to be it for that. He'll kits Hobie spaces enjoyed the release of the video for the Denver show. The Matamoros narcos Satan is cold this past week on patron? Gotta gotta check those patriot post in emails from. Time-to-time if you missed that. All right. The first generation meets sex sweatshirt for all time suck meets access your time suck and meet sex. Pretty sweet man staying I'm happy about something. I enjoy it's varsity crew style alternative sweatshirt that says meet sack right on the front. So people know you're on team meets AC aka team, all humans who were not assholes rights. We the meats actually see fighting stupidity. We do make mistakes still suffer heartaches, but we'll try out until we fight fight fight. We meet tax you see curious until the end we will keep learning on by ignore tale. It's gone and make life better for one. And I'll fight fight. Now picture that happening in a hotel room New York City, this this last week while practicing that big of the people in the room next door. What into fuck is. He talking about. It's an alternative vintage French Terry style. Sweatshirts somebody words, but all those words mean softness comes either navy or Portland. That's Lindsay's favourite switcher branch. She picked out alternative on this. Meet Zach uniform face the world in right represent the time so home team or way team in the world or galaxy wherever you're at. It's both are fifty fifty cotton poly blend also hundred hundred imported manatee nut sack domestic mangas vagina blunt. Why why those fabrics because those were the only illegal animal parts available from our legal animal park sales. Contact also might want to size up your sweatshirt fit bit looser alternative more of an athletic fit and gif finding the the only run up to two x alternatives. So guild will be used for three x extra five x Seko's inhale nimrods, stay warm. Yeah. A lot of you, man. Stay one this week ran some fucking horrific weather come into the upper midwest. My God also congratulations to the winner of our first time suck street. Team sticker challenge. Probably the first time. I talked about on time suck. Came to the cult curious Facebook page round one of the time suck street team has come to a close. We had a blast were already preparing for round. Two more details on that in the coming weeks as to around one time suck stickers have been slapped and tagged and thirty different states. Plus, Germany, the UK spread that suck far and wide. Hopefully, convince you more and more people to join the to curious we saw stickers on street lights cars DVD rental shopping carts. Foam booths. Billboards bathrooms tables chairs windows, gas pumps trash cans soda machines, ATM's mirror, so many other places. They were everywhere. It was amazing to see it unfold. Over the last few months from all of the stickers stuck and tagged on social media using the hashtag spread the suck Reverend. Dr Joe paisley brainchild of this project randomly went through and pick. One winner of paisley literally brought them all up on a screen pointed blindly, his his finger just to select somebody and the winner of over one hundred dollars in time suck merch some signs stuff is Rachel. Lebron year had it couldn't have been Rachel Smith had been Rachel fuck infringed. Name I'm guessing Rachel marriage. I believe I know I've heard of before you heard you say it Rachel, but Rachel LA frontier. I know it has to be close. Congratulations. Rachel, we'll send you some cool swag soon. Around to details again announced sometime in the near future. Finally, we're almost to the promise there's a quick one Spotify. If you haven't heard this free and fun finally Spotify be haven't heard my standard before. And you're you're curious start off with my hand pick favorites from the last six albums Spotify playlist, it's free Lincoln and the episode description. Sorry, I didn't get that link up. When I now this episode a few weeks ago, I'm gonna I'm gonna color it red right now, my notes, so it's a bay reminder like to put it in there. Now. Let's get weird. It's get real weird. Like West Virginia bird, dude. Weird time for some Mosman. Yeah. Yeah. Folk Ma woke. I still have my own fight song. Stuck in my head? Tata? Entente not gonna go away. Maybe never if you really want to dig into the tale of Mothman like really immerse yourself, you need to get your ass to West Virginia, Hotoke. Harbaugh folk specifically, you gotta get the point pleasant West Virginia. That's the real birthplace to the legend. I know Clendenin was we're gonna talk about that quote unquote first sighting in bit. I've lot I've a lot of problems with that one. But point pleasant. That's that's where the real stuff started happening. Well, I say real that's where a lot of stuff. It's harder. Dismiss started happening. It's the beating heart of Mosman Lord to this day point pleasant, quiet. Little town just over four thousand people on the banks of the Ohio river about one hundred miles from less than two hours drive southeast of Columbus. Ohio forty two miles northeast of Huntington, West Virginia, one of my favorite cities in America, by the way, used to love visiting Huntington back when it had funny bone comedy club there years ago in Pullman square wrote a few jokes net. Starbucks got real drunk net. Little town. Several times point pleasant has quaint. Little business district downtown's on the national historic register of places or national register of historic places one of the Sambo's fucking lists. It sits just across the river from Galapagos Ohio a new bridge, connecting the two towns. The silver memorial bridge was completed in nineteen sixty nine two years after the original silver bridge collapsed. Gla- police is a little town of about thirty six hundred people actually it's technically village now do to Ohio law requiring a town to have at least five thousand people. So sorry Galapagos. I I hope I sincerely hope a new terrified monster tax your your village soon. So that the buzz surrounding it's get some much-needed tourism, you know, money and exposure flown your way, maybe kicked you back up to town status. Hope Mothman comes back. He'll be folks is energy on the other side of the river. This time. The area around. These two towns does have some interesting history outside of Mossman, America's first president, Ben Franklin visited the area in seventeen seventy said, it was pretty said there are lots of varmints and critters said the river smelled quote decent. He was so inspired. He invented laundry detergent in the pencil racer opened up America's first taxidermy shop to showcase the area's vast abundance of world-class, Jack elopes. That's not the right notes. Those are some notes I wrote after I fell out the back of truck and had a head injury. Ben Franklin did not visit the area. And of course, is not our first president or any president of America that I know of George Washington, visit the seventeen seventy that's true. That's right. Cherry tree fella. The battle of point pleasant was fought a few years later in seventeen seventy four between over a thousand Virginia militiamen led by Colonel Andrew Lewis, and the Elgon confederation of about a thousand shawnee and Mingo warriors led by chief corn stock that wasn't as given name. It wasn't born corn stock like the rough English translation of his name. The Virginians had about seventy five men killed another hundred and forty wounded in the battle Shani's mingles losses could not be determined since. He carried away their wounded through many of their dead into the river Shani's quietly withdrew back across the Ohio river at night after a day of fighting the Virginians held her ground, and are thus considered to have won the battle. The event is celebrated locally is the first battle the revolutionary war. Even though most stories regard the battle is part of Lord done. Morts war conflict between the colony Virginia. And various tribes of American Indians. Camp point pleasant was established because of this battle and a settlement of the same name soon. Followed a few years later in the fall of seventeen seventy seven chief corn stock made a diplomatic visit to fort Randolph. The new American fort built in present day point pleasant seeking to maintain his people's neutrality with the early Americans and the meeting did not go. Well, at least not for chief corn stock went very poorly for him. It did feed into part of the Mothman Lor chief corn stock was immediately detained by the fort commander who decided on his own initiative to take hostage any Shani's who fell into his hands. Then on November tenth an American militiamen from the fort was killed nearby by unknown Indians and the commander allowed his angry soldiers to brutally execute corn stock corn, stocks, son and two other Shani's in retribution and some believe core. Stocks murder place to curse upon the land. According to Virginia's first official historian. Virgil a Lewis. That's historian name Virgil virgile Lewis, you know, become a diesel mechanic. If your name is Virgil Lewis. He said point pleasant did not flourish for many years after the turn of the century. There was no church for more than fifty years in society was a low ebb. It was a popular superstition that because of the fiendish murder of cornstarch there in seventeen seventy seven the place was laid under a curse for hundred years. Do this curse lead to the birth of the creature Mothman is Mosman physical manifestation of this curse did the curse last longer than one hundred years to any of you know, how to how to place curses cannot perform. Curses. Can you teach me? There are some people. I wouldn't mind, you know, putting little Mothman curse on in the late eighteenth early nineteenth century settlers, slowly trickled into point point pleasant, including humorous, Mark Twain's, grandparents Mark Twain's grandparents headed out there. It would take until nineteen ten for the population to surpass two thousand people. So it was. Slow trickle reached a high of about six thousand people in nineteen seventy neighboring Galapagos got a little bigger made it up to almost nine thousand people nineteen six we're no Ville. Yeah. Proper city gla-. Police Ohio was initially settled by group of French known as the French five hundred locally who are fleeing the French revolution. They made it to the area in October seventeen ninety the town's name is French. And it means the cursed sister city of winged demon monsters, not sure if that ties into legend or not known means these city of the goals other than that that big seventeen seventy four battle and globally being the home of Bob Evans. Do you know about Bob Evans? Bob Evans, founder of the chain of Bob. Evans restaurants, that are my favorite chain of cheap and easy breakfast and lunch spots. I you're damn skip. You'll have a side of warm banana bread. Thank you. Bob Evans person. Seriously. Bob Dylan's is legit. But other than that the area's really not known for much off man Mothman is far and away point pleasant areas. The biggest claim to fame there's a statue of Mothman and the heart attack. He's fucking ripped to jacked APEC. There's Mosman museum every third weekend in September. There's the Mothman festival which has been packing kind of packing. The town every year since it started in two thousand two this year the event takes place on September twenty first twenty seconds of kitchen. Tickets now moth, Vance man's going to be crazy. Big big Mosman festival of Mothman 'cause play live music price songs, referencing Mothman food vendors and classic rock, even tasty Mothman pancakes. There's that's as an option what are Mossman pancakes. You wonder well, they're normal pancakes shaped kind of MAs man, light by guide food truck. Don't don't wanna miss that. There's hey rights at the Mothman festival. I don't know how that ties in the Mothman maybe just trying to make little hayride money of some families coming in. There's guests Mosman expert speakers shuttled tours of the nearby, creepy TNT and. Storage bunkers talking about that here in a bit much more. What are those TNT storage bunkers? Yeah. Yeah. That's that's some something. They lead his creation, and they will come up quite a bit here in this in this tale. The nearby bunkers or part of what was once called the West Virginia ordinance works military facility that manufactured and stored TNT, which is an explosive chemical compound used a lot during World War Two the height of its production facility outside point pleasant. West Virginia produced five hundred thousand pounds of TNT each day. Most of the site was closed one thousand forty five wasn't eventually was eventually made into a regional airport the area, not not the. Not the actual TNT bunkers. They weren't they just fucking this put a Starbucks in there and have have been airport and just push chemicals in the back just making Starbucks. No the area or the TNT was stored has made into a little regional airport became a recreational space and much of the land still very contaminated by TNT, and it's chemical precursor deity, two Superfund sites. That's been on the national priorities less than one thousand ninety three. Surprisingly, actually fixing up this site. Doesn't seem to be on that list of priorities. The party doesn't seem to be get rid of the has just material just monitoring and containment seems to be the strategy did this hazardous material stored out in the woods create some kind of toxic avenger some sort of mutant later given the name of Mothman some kind of some kind of comic book super hero. He was really bad explaining to people that the reason he's shown up to keep them from getting on that bridge a year later that actually has another one of the Mosman series beyond the explosion in two thousand ten of a store. Orage igloo, the contained twenty thousand pounds of unstable materials, the bunkers have been pretty quiet. So other than one explosion pretty quiet. The Mothman museum looks pretty sweet can't forget about that. It's voted number one destination on Tripadvisor dot com for things to do in point pleasant. So get there if you get out there number one and the competition for the top spot. It was intense. Boy howdy. Mothman museum narrowly beat out nearby state park. The point pleasant river museum that's exciting. Hold museum dedicated the river and a West Virginia state farm, use-of-force pharma's AM and river museum. Oh my God. And even better the best museum of maybe ever heard of the US navy poster museum at a very specific museum. How many US navy poster enthusiasts can be out there? How many of them are heading to point pleasant all nineteen. Welcome to the US navy poster museum, man, we we really hope you like posters. That's all we have. And they we really hope you like posters specifically about the US navy because that's quite literally the only kind of poster we have here. Thank god. We don't need to make money because this is a tax write of. Hey, come take a tour tours run on the hour every hour and generally take from two to five minutes. We don't have that many posters. Check. Check out our US navy posters. Take a look at our older US navy posters when you're done with that you can take a gander at even older US navy posters. And of course, don't miss out on the oldest US navy posters. We have we have a lot of different ages of of navy posters. And what was that? Do we have do? We have British navy posters. German navy posters. You ask perhaps some present Canadian navy posters. Are you fucking Jamie? I told you to US navy poster museum sick of me and half sat. Here. That's I don't know. That's how they present their information. They're in my head. That's exactly how it goes down. So now, I have a feel for the area. Couple sleepy. Little blue-collar towns on the river rural West Virginia bit of rural Hieaux little slices of Americana. So now, let's jump into the origins of the Mothman legend today's time so time line right after a quick word from another sponsor time suck is brought to you today by what he's spirit supplies and more spectral emporium. Hey, it's me Woody. Sales of paranormal rape propeller have been real so. Those things how's that? For irony. Turns out there's not much of a market for David's trying to rape people hashing down to probably a focus group high anyway avenue product, their re blended has Rotich spirits applause and more spectrum. And gushed on Christine do on route is marked man monster magnet. What what's the MAs man for magnet is a? That sucks. Mark paint. So you can. When they're studying an imag. Charles get here. That's a bullshit. You have pets. Voted down look cool. Even if they don't work take Mr Charles got the put him he put him in the ninth book cage. Take his vows off grab. He granted you put some often Niles in end, Charlie. Charter few whip yourself. He will win pursell. Outdraw brad. Hodge hall to you win pop outreach? Her put her second drought berto. Bronx. Recording. Okay. Wrap on the booth soldier marching down a time summertime lie. Hayes serve out that sponsor you guys forties. What he's been under a lot of pressure sales have been slow, and he's he's seems very stressed out from what I've just noticed round the office. He's go-. I hear his drinking again, and it sounds is human ventriloquist partner. Charles, gut men. Really having a rough go thing. So so sorry to hear that he got put back in a cage, your new listener. Would he has nothing to do with today's Mosman tale? Let's let's focus. Okay. The first recorded Mothman side took place in November twelfth nineteen sixty six near Clendenin, West Virginia, which is actually a seventy six mile drive south east point pleasant Clinton's pretty dead. Now about a thousand people still live there used to be booming. Oil town, the first petrochemical plant in the world with Bill Clinton in nineteen twenty five men. Kenneth Duncan Bob Lovejoy Bill pool. Excuse me. Andrew God be a meal Gibson were digging a grave for kens father-in-law Homer Smith in a cemetery near Clendenin in nineteen sixty six and this is where Kenneth claim to see a man like figure the flew out from some nearby trees glided low over their heads. Now, the other men can working with that day did not say the creature before it food what before flu away. How did that happen? But Ken said that the Brown creature lifted off beyond the trees, and it was no bird humanoid. He said it was gliding through the trees and was insight for about a minute. He was baffled. Didn't look like any kind of bird seemed to be a man with wings. This is said to be one of the first sightings of moth man's. It's the first kind of citing they got a little bit of buzz came on the press a little while later. We'll talk about that Ken only initially discuss this already with a few friends, and you know, would have been forgotten. If others didn't start to claim to see this winged man around the same time as anyone else. Think is pretty weird that this thing was in the air for a full minute. Big fine, man, Burt an old Kenny doesn't think to point out that there's a fucking monster of their heads to his fellow grave diggers? He has a minute to say something like, hey. Hi, other four guys staying here with me. Hey, mom. What you want to get a load of that look over there. Maybe look up for a second. Maybe check out that bird, dude. Flying overhead. Hey gas. Listen. I know you're real busy right now digging West Virginia grave, and I am not looking. I don't want to interrupt the undoubtably incredibly interesting discussion. You're currently having right now, maybe about how you're sick. Your wife. Linda may continual all town about maybe you're really laszewski. Lease asked looking real real nice and finding those Taibu jeans at the corner tavern the other not or maybe perhaps about how coach will just let you play the more senior year you've gotten a full ride and been a mountaineer the U, but hey, hold out for say, there's a large red eyed monster out Lockheed, maybe take a peek at is flat above us right now. He just don't mind if you wouldn't mind setting your shovel down for ten seconds, something cooler than anything you or anyone in your family tree will ever see in their entire loss is about twenty yards away. Now how did? That never happen. Ken Zeidan is referenced in the November eighteenth nineteen sixty six addition of the Gallipoli daily Tribune. So the writing the paper four other men helping to dig the didn't see it. I don't know. Can I don't know about you? Also, how the hell did that town have a daily paper while that is the first reported sighting of Mosman, again, one of kind of notes, you know, there's if you look in like dark corners of the web, you can find all kinds of supposed- bullshit. But it's actually made the papers. The Mothman tail doesn't really get moving until a few days later and point pleasant, which is why they have all cool museums. Right, Clendenin old Kenny fucking blew it for you. If you said something you could have had an annual moth man, you have been eating those taste pancakes. When our you got you got nothing. You ghost town says interstate seventy nine bypass in the eighties. Why did the interstate bypass you? Because Kenny dumps shit Dunkin fucked up everything couldn't point out large flying. Monster now ruined an entire town. Sorry upsets me three days later after Kenneth Dunkin doomed his town to failure by being the worst person who ever lived on ever fifteenth nineteen sixty six I hope, you know, him intentionally being over the top Ken, by the way. There was a moss man, siding and point pleasant kicked off the heart of the legend, Roger and Linda scarberry, we're driving Rogers black fifty seven Chevy Bel Air with Stephen Mary mallet through the around midnight when Lyndon noticed too large glowing red eyes in the darkness behind besides gives me the old north power plant and unlike Kenny tight lips unlike Kenny nineteen sixty six West Virginia state secret champion, right? She she screams and alerts the other people in the car to the presence of God damn monster like a red blooded terrified American and supposed to do the four young locals all around the age of twenty soon. Learn that these is belong to something. Look, both very human and very inhuman a bipedal monster about seven feet tall with wings. Folded against his back Roger stalled in the road for minute inspecting, the strange creature making sure wasn't some sort of bird four quick realize this this this war. No, ordinary animal. They watched the creature spread it's wings head right form. And that's when they put the pedal to the metal that will Bel Air race down highway sixty two point pleasant, right exceeding. Speeds of one hundred miles an hour. The monster at one point easily keeping up with him for arrived in town startled confused. And then they notice that the monsters, you know, seem to stop following them. Roger parked his car. The edge of town, they discussed the encounter eventually convinced themselves that you know, had to be bird had to be giant strange bird. So that an attempt to face their fears. Right feel better about the whole encounter. They drove back out of town. They wanted to verify it's just a bird headed back toward that TNT area was long before they did see the creature again apparently waiting for them beside route sixty two or the couples for now. Sure that this thing we're no bird the incident that the car's headlights land on the creature lifted. Vertically in the air with tremendous speed and disappeared above the treeline the race back into town again with directly to the Mason county courthouse told their story to sheriff George Johnson and deputy Miller Halsted a two hours later city. Police began investigating the area. They really did you head out there? Investigators all talk to on the papers only to return empty-handed next day press conference was held and the local press began printing the story causing others to come for with previous and future sides people like Kenneth why don't you just keep that side into yourself? Now that you blown it dunk it remember fifteenth point pleasant citing was what we got the buzz going about, man. And the November sixteenth issue of the point pleasant. Register the strange encounter would be brought to the public eye with the headline couple sees man-sized bird creature something here's that article in its entirety. This is the most important article in all of Mosman Lord. It was a bird or something. It definitely wasn't a flying saucer two point pleasant. Couples said today, they encountered a man sized bird like creature in the TNT area about midnight last night sheriff's deputies and city. Police went to the scene about two o'clock this morning, but we're unable to spot anything. But the two young men telling their story this morning, we're dead serious and asserted. They hadn't been drinking Steve mallet of thirty three five Jackson avenue and Roger scarberry of eight oh nine thirtieth street described. The thing is being about six or seven feet tall. Having a wingspan of ten feet and red is about two inches in diameter and six inches apart. It was like a man with wings Malott said it wasn't like anything you'd see on TV or a monster movie, the men and their wives were in Scarborough car between eleven thirty PM and midnight when they spotted the creature near the old power plant adjacent to the old national guard armory buildings the creature was seen standing on three occasions and was described as being extremely fast it flew about one hundred miles an hour. In flight, but was a clumsy runner. Deputy Miller house did said he had seen dust in the vicinity of the coalfield of ako 'field, but it could have been caused by the bird. He said, I'm a hard guy to scare scarberry said. But last night, I was forgetting out of there. They did just that. But the thing followed them they said it was hovering over the car apparently gliding until they reached the national guard armory on route route sixty two we went downtown turned around and went back in. There was again mallet said it seemed to be waiting on us. He said the light grey creature then scurried through field. It also had flown across the top of the car. It apparently is afraid of light mallet reasons. And maybe thought it was scaring off the young men said they saw the creatures is which glowed red only when their lights shined on it. And it seemed to want to get away from the lights. They said it looked like a man with wings, but its head was not. Not an outstanding characteristic. Both were slightly pale and tired from lack of sleep during the night following their herring experience. They speculated that the thing was living in the vacant power plant possibly and one of the huge boilers there are pigeons in all the other buildings mallet said, but not in that one. Was to have this article. Whereas how would he know that detail? How does he know where all the local birds live some weird local bird experts? I listen their pigeons in every other building not that one. I don't know for sure once a week for mount peace of mind, I like to do quick low Burt check of all abandoned buildings in this area. I I use a whistle and technique while walk around the old army army, and I'm not just walk around on. And when I went all here some come back. That's when I know. Okay. We got pigeon over here. We got we got a little this kind of some kind of maybe like a, Robin. Or maybe a this know all the bird names. Okay. I just know the sounds of birds, and I know what buildings they are in our ardor a birth in a huge as mortar billet. Nope. Not go ahead. Go there. Go. No, not going back. Anyway, scarberry is in quote in the article say if I'd seen it while by myself, I wouldn't have said anything, but there were four of us who sought they said it didn't resemble a baton anyway. But maybe what you would visualize as an angel. A weird. We're description I was terrified as monstrous I'll scare for my life. And look at look an angel. The last time they saw it was at the gate of the Lewis farm on route sixty two they heard a sound like wings flapping, and they said the bird rose straight up like a helicopter. Okay. It's got a helicopter wings. Now. This doesn't have an explanation to mallet said it was an animal, but nothing like I've seen before are they going back to look for the creature. Yes. Mallet said this afternoon again tonight today scarberry said, but tonight's now, I don't know. So that's they said they were quote in the paper saying on November sixteenth nineteen sixty six day the article, I just read came out. One of the MAs man witnesses Linda scarberry was rushed to the hospital by her father after she experienced a nervous breakdown the evening of the sixteenth, man strikes. Again, Marcella Bennett, her her brother, Raymond Wamsley and his wife, Kathy. We're bringing Marcellus two year old daughter Tina to visit relatives who live near the TNT area of point. Marcela and her brother had just read about the strange being the newspaper. They even thought it might be fun to go out and look for it, you know, one day, but they never expected to see it that night the house. They were visiting was a little bungalow back among the igloos of the TNT, though storage the TNT area. Bloomed Ralph Thomas who was a superintendent of some work being done out there. Ralph's wife Virginia Thomas was Marcella. Bennett's sister Marcella, Raymond and Kathy arrived. They discovered that routh in Virginia had both left to go to church, the only ones home where the three Thomas children, Ricky, Connie and Vicky after exchanging a few words with children Bennett and the Walmsley's had it back to the car is about nine PM. And that's when they say they saw it. They plan to a spotted some strange lights in the sky hovering above the trees. They made it outside or Saudi. They saw this win. They've been outside. So they walk outside the house. They see the trains lights and this guy Raymond stops. And gets the bottom of the steps tries to get more attention. She told her that she didn't want to see any lights. He said, no you've got to look at this. This isn't a plane. She ignored him and began walking. To the car carrying her daughter is Marcelo relate related to Kenny dumdum Dunkin. But your husband is telling you this strange lights the guy nine I don't want to. Nope. Not for one second look for one second. No, I don't I don't like look up ever what's going on with people in West Virginia around the time when it comes up in the air, suddenly a figure stirred in the darkness behind the parked car. Now Marcella sees the creature out of the corner rice, she's unlocking the car doors. She I he's a man's legs. That's looked like they were covered in grey feathers. She didn't see any feet like a slow motion scene a horror film. She pulled her is up the wings were drawn in towards his body. The head was tilted sideways. So that looks like a bird, but was too big to be bird standing only a few feet from her was a giant man bird its head sunk into the shoulder area. She saw no red is. But later said she might have been too frightened notice Marcella described the creature as over six foot tall with feathers is like a giant bird. But yet a man, and it was standing with shoulders arched and its neck down. She was terrified. But I run I just stood there and looked at it. But I couldn't figure out what I was seeing said Marcella her brother saw what would not come towards where it was. Yeah. Yeah. On your own, Raymond. His wife were both very frightened. He kept yelling for Marcello run. But she was paralyzed by fear. When Marcelo finally managed to turn around. She took maybe four steps towards the house before falling to the ground in a state of shock landed on top daughter unable to get up as if in a trance she said, I just couldn't do what my mind was wanting me to do as you're the flapping of wings as she was trying to run. Can you imagine how scary this? It'd be if it really happens like you had to some relatives house to visit. They're not home. So you head back to the car, right? Then some literal flying bug, man. Monster lands next to you. I have no idea how I would react if something like that happened to me. I'd like to think I would grab my kids throwing why shoulders and run, but who knows maybe to paralyzed with fear. Maybe I'd freeze brain would just be stuck, you know, as I was trying to process what's supposed to not be possible. But with clearly possible because it standing somehow front of me after pulling herself together Marcella picked up a child ran to the house. The Walmsley's waiting on. The steps Raymond heard the creature once again flap its wings. There's Marcella reach them the family, lots of cells inside the house to protect themselves. Ourselves hands and knees were badly skinned up scraped bruised and bleeding from the fall. She had even been burned from falling on top of a lit cigarette. The side of her face was also bleeding from where should fallen Jesus that is some fall bleeding from her face hands, and knees and burned man if Raymond had had a history of domestic violence, which he doesn't have that I can find I would say that. This is the weirdest version of lookout lookout who got clumsy and fell on the stairs. Again. This is like the worst version of that kind of domestic violence tale. They've ever heard to some wife-beating just Greece. I I didn't hear her off, sir. I never laid a hand on her. I don't care. What a crazy mom says. Oh hatch to get all those bruises has she blew out g to cigarette burns. How fast I want? You got they muff man, crater terrorize, my wife winged. Son of a bitch came over here. Scared knockdown Burke put cigarette burner. I don't know. I don't know. Nothing about nothing. You're you want. You want some answers Ugo Ugo found that critter Maresca. No, okay. I didn't thought she had. I I should have worked hard on a story. I apologize for. Verve. Been busy, and I apologize for not coming up with a better cover. The children inside were all screaming and crying and panic while this is going on Raymond Walmsley frantically phones, the police by this time Marcella was lying on the sofa. Could here Raymond telling the sheriff's department and get the TNT area because they'd seen this creature. He told he told them to do locked in the house, and it was still outside while Raymond is talking to the police the Mothman creatures put pantley shuffling around on the porch pushes on the door peers into the windows took the police about fifteen twenty minutes to arrive at the house, but the creature was gone by the time they got there. How great would it be? If this is a prank like if you if you were able to put a costume gotta that quickly. Like you heard about read the paper that's morning like all shit. We don't make them. People scared to not get some big ass feathered costume and start running. Round people's houses. My go get you. Don't know gidget the police they searched all around the house but found nothing but a bunch of rubber neckers front yard quickly filled up with curious people in cars from everywhere. Pretty soon. Look like a drive in theater. Raymond talk to the police filled out some paperwork, and the police reports Marcella Bennett has since described this night as the most frightening experience of her life, something she felt uncomfortable talking about she was traumatized couldn't sleep afterwards. She would say I would think I hear the wings flapping annoys on top of the roof. I can't feeling that. This thing had followed us home. Somehow she felt the creature now how to link to her and would come back. She never drove at night after this experience. I couldn't sleep when I was hearing things and thought that it was right outside and still after me. I couldn't imagine what this thing was where it came from. And what is purpose was it was close enough to harm me? But it didn't. She even sought medical attention at holes hospital to deal with anxiety and sleekness sleeplessness sleepness sleepless Jesus Christ sleeplessness absence incident, she would later feel the Maas man's presence at times Senator into a panic, for example, she would feel if. It was in the back seat of her car. Then she'd hit the brakes turn around look behind seen empty seat Marcella citing and subsequent, you know. Tear over the incident was captured in detail and author John Keells book, the Mothman prophecies the next day. So okay. So you know, I I can joke by the staff, but these people seem very into what they think they saw the next day local press was a buzz with tales Mothman. Here's a little excerpt. From the November seventeenth nineteen sixty six edition of the point pleasant. Register ever since two young couples cited a man sized creature in the clinic wildlife area Tuesday night, ridicule after pawn after cute remark has been quoted about Mason, counties, monster or bird, nevertheless, it was seen again last night by several of the hundred of curious citizens scouting, they massive area and the same description was given gray in color. Ten foot wingspan six feet tall. And you dread is the latest to see the thing. We're Raymond Walmsley nineteen Kathy eighteen Marcella Bennett Twenty-one and Ricky Thomas fifteen. According to the Mason county sheriff's office. They told sheriff George Johnson the huge bird was in the yard of Ralph Thomas whose home is located northeast of the white church road TNT area citing this time was about ten pm Wednesday. They said the bird like creature came around the car and stared out them, and then sort away civil defense and national guardsmen were patrolling the area last night along with sheriff. And deputies. That's pretty crazy whether whether it happened or not there's enough there's enough kind of commotion, you know, going on about these sidings. They've got the national guard in there. They have police, you know, deputies. He got know combing the area looking for this creature out in the woods next day the eighteenth. There was another sighting. Captain, Paul Yoder Benjamin inex-, both volunteer firemen from point pleasant revealed that they had seen a very large bird in the TNT area in November on November eighteenth. It was definitely a bird. They stated flatly with big red is, but it was huge. We'd never seen anything like it. So wasn't odd giant bird. Causing all demoss, man. Commotion sending folks into hysterics. Maybe we'll discuss that possibility did the bird take a local man's dog. Merle partridge. Also, sometimes this is Newell Partridge from Salem, West Virginia about one hundred fifteen miles northeast from point pleasant later reported the his German shepherd chase something with red reflective is around this time out into the woods run. After into the cold, November West Virginia night, and it was never seen. Again. How much that suck man? If I were sea monster alien, please leave doodles lonely doodles. Don't take any pooper don't take ginger bell Mossman. They've did nothing to deserve this. That's true. So sometimes one of them does say shit in the basement, we we can't figure out which ones doing it. Sometimes sometimes ginger does chew on the furniture. But you let you let us decide how to punish those fluffy little weasels. If you have to take one a lover, but take your Bill takes you. If you have to if one of them has to go leave paper, but please don't do that Mothman. Okay. During these first days of signs that the creature seems to have gotten his mouth, man. Name a November seventeenth nineteen sixty six headline from the herald dispatch in nearby Huntington seems to be the early example decrease being called Mosman it red bird plane or Batman Mason county ins hunt moth man, and it was written by local reporter, Pat Siler since none of the actual early. Witnesses called the creature man seems like Pat she's came up with that herself. Well, done nice. Ryan, pat. Mas man, sounds a minute like Birdman, which is closer to what the actual creature seemed to between to look like as described by witnesses nice little ration-, Pat and. And Batman was already taken. So you know, you look silly. If you call Batman next day on the November eighteenth, nineteen sixty six Huntington, the the Huntington advertiser printed, the headline could the Mothman be a balloon later on November nineteenth a headline from the herald dispatch read that MAs man. Would you believe a sandhill crane? Yeah. Some people soon that what they were seeing was weather balloon or they seem to other people were seen as weather balloon kind of like I like the weather balloon I discussed in the alien extravaganza suck in the area. Fifty one suck, you know, the Roswell sightings, I do believe were whether balloon related I don't think that makes sense with Mothman on because no one describes seeing like an orb an orb that would be a great distance away with the sun reflecting off it, you know, that could be mistaken for a flying saucer from a great distance. But it couldn't be mistaken up close for a red eyed winged humanoid. So that doesn't make any sense to me some comfort. I'm saying I'm going to say not whether balloon November twenty first police in Charleston West Virginia received excited phone call from one Richard west, dick west. Dick, west. That's a study a strong as named dick west. It'd be like a private detective or something with that name. Yeah. That's better than dick east seems weird to me dick south dick, south same sad. Dick, Sal, dick, south seems seems like he got sad Wayne always pointed down dick south now miam- but beer, dick did west Manley. Anyway. Dick, west ten fifteen pm, Monday, December twenty first a talks to patrolman deal. Tucker west insisted that a Batman was sitting on a roof next to that's fantastic dip, west a next door is Batman. He said it looks like a man it's about sixty tall has a wing spread of six or eight feet. It has great big red is that fly Tucker s straight up like a helicopter west answered. And then he hung up 'cause we do and your dick west straight up like a helicopter motherfucker click. Don't don't bother me don't bother dick west told you what I wanted to tell you November twenty fifth nineteen sixty six thirteen miles east to Salem, Lou Clarksburg, West Virginia the mystery monsters spotted again this time by Tom Murray. Assistant manager of the Kenny store seven fifteen a m the morning November twenty fifth. Tom told sheriff's office that he had an experienced with the bird as he traveled north on state route sixty two I all around this sixty two or it was driving home. From point pleasant to Salem, little town, thirty miles east of Salem or excuse me. Eats Easter point pleasant about. Actually, it's the town about one hundred thirty miles from point pleasant. Okay. So he that's where he was visiting relatives. I was like man that's a long commute. Now. He's been spent thanksgiving and point pleasant with relatives when he encountered this creature. He says, I know people think you're crazy when you tell of seen something like this. But I've never had an experience. I was scared. In giving an account to the point pleasant. Register Tom said as you went from the road went up the roads, he spotted a flying object seem to come down from the woods at on his on his on his flight after description of the area was determined to came from the area. Back of the Homer Smith. Residents whose Homer Smith that name south Miller. It's canny dumb dumb dunk, his father-in-law the one who's digging that gray for when he just couldn't mention sina fly monster to his buddies didn't want to bring them up again. But here we are. And Tom said the near homers house Mothman came up like a helicopter and then veered over my car. It began going around in circles about two or three telephone poles high and kept staying above above my car. He added on his first thought was that a fear or not I tried to get away was going about seventy miles an hour. But it kept up with me easily. He stated that it. Kept soaring over his vehicle until he got to Kirkland memorial gardens the point pleasant cemetery. Why did you cemetery ski poverty tail and then and then it made its way to the left and over toward the river early said, I have a convertible, and it I felt it was going to come through the top. But after the state in the air at about the same height. I didn't feel like it would attack. I seen big birds. I've never seen anything like this. He commented given a description. He said it was gracious Brown in color is about six feet links or height and was leased a had at least eight to ten foot wingspan. And I like how he felt compelled to add that he had seen big Burs before. And then he would know the difference between a big bird with large red eyes. And winged demon. That is weird that the people are thinking that these things are birds, you know, a bird wing demand to very different creatures. Are you sure you saw Red Eye monster face seven foot tall demon man with a with a ten foot wingspan or maybe a Craner Kander? Maybe now, maybe large pigeon. Maybe aggressive, Robin Gow jail. I mean, heck when he stood up onto legs and raises swings and stared at me with this red eyes, and it flexes, ma'am. Pex. I thought for sure it'd be Mosher some sort they're now think harder upon it. I think it may have been a great parrot or perhaps a blooberg how the fuck how'd you mix those things Tom probably feel compelled to say that it wasn't a bird because you know, some witnesses as we've heard in those firemen did say what they saw was a bird and people do still think today that the nine hundred sixty six man sightings were actually just strange bird sightings, the main. Culprit, people seem to believe in seems to be the sandhill crane. I don't know if you've ever heard of one of these birds. Just three days after the first man story was published about the point pleasant sighting of moth man, following a car full of two young local couples who drove back out of town sought again, a story was published in the Huntington herald dispatch on number nineteenth. And it was titled the moss, man. Would you believe a sandhill crane? Here's what it said. It said the case of the Mason county monster may have been sold Friday by West Virginia university, professor doctor Robert Goldsmith Smith, associate professor of wildlife biology in WVU's division of forestry told Mason sheriff George Johnson point pleasant. He believes the thing which has been frightening people in the point pleasant area since Tuesday is a large bird, which stopped awful migrating south from all the descriptions, I have read about this thing it perfectly matches the sand hill cranes professor, I definitely believe. That's what people are seeing since Tuesday more than ten people have spotted what they described as Birdman or Mothman in the area of the McClintock wildlife's station. They described it as a huge gray wing creature with. Large red is Dr Smith said the sand hill. Cranes stands on average of five feet tall and has great plumage a feature of its appearance. A bright red fleshy area around each I it has an average wing spread of about seven feet somebody who has never seen anything like it before it could easily get the impression. It is a flying, man. He said carlights would cause the bearskin to reflect big red circles around the eyes. Okay. So I had to stop reading this old newspaper article this point and look up some pictures of this crane, and I gotta say it looks nothing like dude like nothing. I don't know what the hell Dr Smith talking about when he says perfectly matches the description of the sandhill crane. No, no, it's a as a teeny tiny little bird head like the tiniest little bird head with not humid all looking bird is on the sides of its head since it is not a predator on the sides of his little little bird head, and it's very skinny little narrow bird head rests on the end of a very super-duper long. Very skinny crane neck. It does have big powerful look and wings too big bird. But in between those wings is a skinny Astle week bird body. It looks honestly like a long necked duck with big wings and literal sticks for legs its legs could not be skinnier legs. Look like they're about an inch in diameter. Reminds me of bamboo reeds. It's like they got a bamboo reeds little web feed at the bottom no-one no-one, actually know what the web feet, I added that. I, you know, I have two full disclosure to be very honest with you guys. I I wrote that in my notes, but I don't actually see it might have little might not have had little fucking tiny bird feed. I know that no one who would see this. I I don't think would have mistake it for human being now don't care if it's dark. I I don't know how you could be dumb enough to mistake this creature for a monster Birdman Ambi smart enough to still talk to a reporter after the incident. I know some people like to work themselves up and see what they want. I guess, and so they have really manufactured the whole thing in that sense. I don't think you'd see this bird and think it was a giant monster, man. The end of the article says, well such birds are rare to this area. Dr Smith said this is migration time, and it could and it could not be too difficult for one or more of the birds to stop off at the wildlife refuge. There are no. Official sightings of such birds West Virginia. Although there have been unconfirmed reports in the past. He added. Okay. And he warned that the sandhill crane is harmless. If left alone that have cornered may become a formidable antagonist it's dagger like Bill is a dangerous weapon, which the crane does not hesitate to use at bay and fighting force life, many one hundred dogs and badly injured. He said some of those reports in the monster remembered best the Erie sounded made the description of the sandhill crane also fits there. He says the cry of sandhill crane is a veritable force of nature untamed and untied. It's uncanny quality is like that of a loon, but is more pronounced because of the greater volume of the cranes voice. Its residents is remarkable at his carrying powers increased by distinct tremendous effect, often for several minutes after the birds have vanished. Unearthly sounds drift back to the listener. Like a taunting trumpet from the underworld. That's a pretty terrifying. Description, but does the bird actually sound like that? Well, I. I did some research. I wanna play you a little now. This is the sandhill crane. It's scrape. So you decide for yourself if it sounds demonic to you. Okay. Okay. That is fairly scary. That is fairly scary. I'm not gonna lie to you. Let's check out. Let's check out another. There's there's various recordings of them on the web. Maybe maybe this. This is a man. Now to me that one sounded more like James Brown than a sandhill crane when one more time on this is a man. Yeah, hasn't that's uncanny. Sounds exactly like James Brown. Obviously that's nonsense. Here is the real one. Here's the real birds down. All right. Let me let me get right back to here. That's actually what they make. I heard that at night. Yeah. Creeped me out, but you know. Dark cry from the under- world. No. I don't think. So I don't think. So that's that's not that terrifying. To me. In a perfect in a perfect world. It would sound like this. It'd be awesome. If this is how the bird actually sounded. I don't I. I I did toll putting Tweety bird out there. Trying to tend to be moss man, scare folks come out tweets come right over here and kiss the pool. Booty you make everything better, though, Tweety bird. Come here, comma, and it'll Bodey love it. He's how long has it been since you hear about Tweety? Okay. So the next day November twenty six in Saint Albans, West Virginia, I'm going to get rid of these. So I don't actually play them during the show. Just out of Charleston, forty five miles south of point pleasant. Mrs Ruth foster claims now that the Mothman is appearing on her front lawn. The evening on November twenty six was standing beside the port. She told reporters it was tall with big red is the popped out of its face. My husband is six feet one. This bird looked about the same height or maybe a little shorter. She continued it had a funny little face. I didn't see any big all I saw those big red. Poppy is I screamed read back into the house. My brother-in-law went out to look, but it was gone. Okay. All right. So Zamissa foster may have seen a bird vote bird with his encounter when she talks about how having a tiny little face. But some of the other people are either truly lying or really hyped up a bird in their minds. If it's not a monster. The next day in Saint Albans on November twenty seven two teenage girls allegedly chased by gray seven foot tall creature a Sheila Kane age thirteen or younger sister were walking home from the store when they saw an enormous something standing next to the local junkyard. It was gray and white with big red is Sheila reported, and it must have been seven feet tall taller than a man. I screamed we ran home it flew up in the air and followed us part of the way Connie Joe carpenter eighteen year old witness or eighteen year waitress at tiny diner and point pleasant now village pizza also claimed to have an encounter with Mothman on the twenty twenty-seven Connie Joe describe was described as a shy studious girl of eighteen from New Haven claim to have the encounter ten thirty AM on Sunday, November twenty seven driving home from church when she saw. But I thought it was a large man dressed in grey stand on the deserted links of the Mason county golf course again on route a route sixty to fifty miles north of point pleasant. Ten foot wings, suddenly unfolded. The thing took off straight up and headed for car. Those is they were very red. And once they were fixed on me. I couldn't take my own eyes off of them. It's a wonder have a wreck. She declared carnage. Oh, said the creature flew directly to windshield, then veered off and disappeared. She stepped on the gas and raced home hysteria. Locked herself in a bedroom. Those is that's all she ever say was does is her boyfriend would later say she was so upset she wasn't a she was unable to go to school for several days and required medical attention. She was also she also suffered from an ailment afterwards called Clea conductive conjuncture virus or iber n-. Her eyes were red swollen itchy with water coming out of them for two weeks. Miss carpenter was also one of the few claim a close look at the mock man's face. Ain't it was horrible like something of a science fiction movie, many years later in two thousand one when filmmakers making these search for the Mothman documentary wanted to talk to her about it. She declined said, I guess she's still traumatized her husband keys, acre whose boyfriend at the time of the siding spoke on her behalf saying I'd like people to understand that. I'm here to make sure they don't think she's a Kook because she's not when she says she's saying she's actually seeing he went on to say, the only thing I have to say, keep an open mind because someday could happen to you. And if you try to tell somebody what are you going to do if they laugh? You. Well, okay. All right. It's fair point. It's fair point. I mean, it is weird that someone would get that worked up over a bird siding. I doubt a crane would emotionally scar. You like that? If a crane would emotionally scary like that, man. You're a fragile your fragile human being has got to be terrible to live like that. If you can get PTSD from a crane siding. Okay. So sometime in November nineteen sixty six Bob BAAs worth and his friend. Alan coach are said to have seen the legendary man within the TNT errors, abandoned, north power plant and point pleasant just outside. And now these two they saw anything they did not see a crane. I feel pretty sure of that. There's there's a fair amount of alleged sightings written about that happen at some point. There are signs that are not giving an exact date to them in the fall of nineteen sixty six I'm leaving out most of them. It's pretty redundant. You get the idea. Now, a lot of them are pretty vague sightings weren't reported in the papers. The time don't really add much to the story as wanting to know that they're out there this one I wanted to include because Bob has repeated the story to numerous interviewers authors and documentary filmmakers over the years stores remained consistent, and it is an interesting one. He said, a friend of mine. Alan Coates had a motorcycle we were just riding around in Allah said, you wanna go up to the area. And I said might as well, Bob and Alan and already heard news stories about the Mosman which local. Referred to simply as the bird Bobby wants offered Roger scarberry five bucks to take him to where he saw the bird, but Roger declined the offer. It was chilly weather. So the men are wearing heavy coats. They drove along camp Conley road. The road was Jason to the old armory which later became fairgrounds. So a ride now through there now said look at that we stopped and up on top of the roof that oh power plant building. It was I believe at three story building up on top. We seem to big what looked like red eyes looking at us. And he's telling this story many years later to an author. He said somebody's probably got a couple of reflectors nail to aboard trying to fool somebody a bet. You're right. I said, so no, he's you know, he said, yeah. I said, I bet you right. Let's go up there and see what it is. So do you like these guys style? This happens to be honest. We finally get a pair of adventure who some balls tale. Hell Nimrod right enough squealing and run around racing away from this thing, you know, phone down your baby. Let's have MAs man. Get shaved once. Yeah. Yeah. With Virginia hawk folk. Go get him now. Now, all you don't did it mouth, man. I said we stopped right there. And we looked up. Well, look like those red is we're looking down at us. Then that's still bothers much because we thought whoever was just turned the board. The men tried to pick up the front of the motorcycle shine, the headline and the red eyes. But the motorcycles too heavy couldn't get to the front end of it. They couldn't get the front end of it has to be high enough. So they decided to to just go to the top of the building. The ended the power plant went to third floor on a concrete platform. There were metal grading catwalks veering off toward abandon equipment, and that'd be spooky shit walking through an abandoned power plants looking for the source of two shiny lights. It could be the eyes of some Osman creature scary and exciting. I wouldn't do it alone. But I probably would do with the front, right? The feeling whether it's real or not safety in numbers. He goes in the process of a lot of demolition work. They'd remove the ladder took you up on the roof. I thought that I thought how in the world can anybody get up there all of a sudden this? I don't know. I don't know really know what to say, whatever whatever I saw if very. Slowly and precisely walked towards us, the floors of the abandoned power plant. We're literally related with broken glass from the windows. You couldn't really take step without crunching something beneath your feet, the moonlight was so bright shining to the openings of the windows Christmas spotlight effect, while leaving certain places still incomplete shadow we heard a walk and walked right up and just stayed in the dark at that point. You didn't see any red is. He said I thought about that. And I think that's because there was no light to reflect him all of his movement for slowing precise. No fighting movements. No, walls or anything like that. It got to the point that if I take it one step in extending my arm towards it. I touched it. Bob claimed Hussein just two distinct outline of the creature the unique shape was large had broad shoulders yesterday to a six six seven feet tall where no bird must someone released an especially tall, especially short necked aggressive EMU or ostrich in West Virginia late nineteen sixty six I've seen no records of that. He said, I don't know of any man that I've ever seen this built away the saying was built back, then I waited. And seventy pounds it shoulders went past me had a tape or to it. Well out compare it with the Robin Byrd outlooks. When their wings are folded and how they're Bolger the top come back down to taper who's just as had a head large head sitting on his shoulders. Here's what we did. Because you can't sometimes comprehend what you're seeing what it looked like a very looked very strange. So I told Al, you know, Al, that's that's a bird almost shoot. It. He said a Dow, that's that's a bird. I'm gonna shoot it. He said, well, we didn't have any guns. If it were somebody. They should have spoke up and said, hey, man, don't shoot. It's me. I see he's doing I s right? He's trying to make the saying out loud. This the Birla shoot it to make. If it's a person like those you me nothing you just should right there. I said again, our mean it I'm gonna shoot it. He said go ahead. I put my hand into my co like I had a gun. No sound just stood right there. If we're looking right at me. I'm five nine had to tell my head back a little bit look where it's face should be had rounded head. What if you can imagine a you upside down, it was just too big to be a man? There was no quick or threatening moves whatsoever meant and had it meant any harm. It certainly had a chance right there towards either one of us. But I remember that any nervousness went away. And I started becoming more interested in trying to figure it out became at that point, very calm. I wasn't afraid. I was unsure Bob anelle stared at the thing in front of them for another five to six minutes. It very slowly and precisely turned towards the catwalks. Now, these catwalks have been torn up and everything else and went out to nothing dropped off three stories down. And it's where they had removed equipment. So whatever this thing was turned and started walking out the I don't know the fuck is fucking terrible of the hell he's trying to say here. So it at I'm still to the point that I'm not sure what I'm seeing. And I didn't want anyone to get hurt. So I yelled at buddy, don't go out on that catwalk. There's no railing to drops off three stories down never hesitation that. We just heard the sound of wings. It was just as though it said, I'm bored and left. I walked it walked back. Dammit, man. The fucking it walked to the back of the catwalk. And only at that time for some reason is when we started getting a little nervous. I don't like the guy speaks we hastily left. Bob, Allen ran down the steps. They didn't hear anything else. But kept looking back as they ran into the motorcycle. And drove off one thing that has always stuck in my mind. All these years is how in the world if it was a person or someone out to scare us. How they could get up there. And then get down that quick while we were coming up the steps Bob Alan, mostly have the story themselves. They didn't think the police can help. Bob's father thought he was seeing things. No one will believe him. Even if he told him Bob added out give anything to see it one more time before I die. I would do things differently. I would try to touch it. I got a feeling when it was front of me that it was it was safe. I wasn't. It wasn't going to hurt me. I just wish I could caress it who and hug it and tell it that everything's okay. I wish I could just look into its eyes and just understand what love is and feel approval that I never got from my father. And I just wish if I could one chance that I could just hold his hands hold a small hands and just ask India skit at one eight and just we marry me if I if I won if I had one shot and just put my lips on his beak and just you know, and just feel his chest. And hope hope that there's Bris and Bresser nodded just make love to it and have a have a beautiful mall, baby. And raise it with caring and understanding that my father never gave me when I was young and. Then Bob just started to weep. No, I mean stuff, but but he told the story to Jeff Wamsley published in a two thousand five book moth man behind the red is two thousand seventeen the audio from this interview was used an animated sequence in the moss man of point pleasant documentary. I wish that stuff made up at the end was also animated. So as I say what they say happened. Now, the I do have thought it was just a weird story so on and I do have problems with the story main problem is the lack of flashlight, right? Let me get straight you in planning on going out looking for some scary creature out in the woods at night. I would think that a flashlight would be a very important item to have on your list. Next next to maybe gun gun might be the only other more important item to have that list. And they have brought neither and this is a huge in rural West Virginia in nineteen sixty six. The don't have guns or flashlights with them on this adventure. I have a problem with that. However, I am very forgetful. I do do shit without planning on myself. A lot of times, you know, I I will go to the grocery store without grabbing the grocery list. One thing I suppose to fucking bring besides my wallet. I've gone to the grocery store without either my wallet or the grocery list. So maybe maybe that could have happened. Okay. So couple more things here another allege eyewitness who was supposed to all this creature sometime late November nineteen sixty six excuse me, the Saudi worth mentioning fade to wit LaPorte that November in point pleasant thirteen-year-old Faye and her siblings decided to see if they could find the mythical Mossman said behind in the area, her older brother topper had heard of the sightings onto prove those fake once and for all so they drove to the creatures rumored hiding place that damn TNT area outside of point pleasant. I drove up there and a green fifty nine four truck as they drove moss man said you appear to begin running beside the car he can run now to like terrified faith out herself face to face with the creature through the car window her brother told her not to look at it. But you got glimpses from the corner ri-. She said it was whitish and sandy had the features of a human. But no beak almo-. Yeah. Had the human yet. No beak almost everyone by late November is sure to point out that what they saw was not a bird, and she saw those infamous giant red is she didn't see the creatures wings until later because he didn't fly. I just running shoes impressed by the creature's ability to keep up with them running. A you know about fifty miles an hour face. It all I could see was the is. They were they were. So big other than anything else on his face. It just it just held you. And that's about all you saw. The is the is was the reds is I've ever seen in my laugh and to this day. I've never seen anything that read in a panic. She told her younger sister, Betty and her younger brother too high but duck down in the back seat or her older brother went as fast, he could around sharp corner trying to lose a creature, but the beasts was simply too. Fast. It turned along with him continued to follow. Phase brother went around another sharp, turn stop the car sideways in the road. Shits intents creature jumped onto hold of the car looked at them through the windshield. The creature leaped to the top of a nearby. Ben in factory then jumped on top of the building. Then just turned and sat down crowds like a gargoyles. Fey describes the creature was amazingly able to leap the height of a tall building. A single jump without fight some superhero shit. She didn't says her brother got out of the car. And and what she says that her brother guy, the car is sort of throwing rocks and pieces of coal creature. Let the fuck dude there's a horror movie you'd be I to go. What are you doing? You're getting out. Why would you get out and throw rocks at it? And how much more stereotypically West Virginia? Could you be right now you hop out to throw literal lumps of coal just laying on the ground at a at a crypto zoological beast. Yeah. Kill don't get her Dama fell. You take that route twenty criticize who. Fair Colin up. All don't you stirred my sister, you'll sit you damn bit. But my some Beth who got their Bill go air cargo. Gary crane fellow. That's story as she says, she said her her finally brother through a larger coal chunk. Landed by moth man's foot. And that's when he stood up Lutheran sideways jumped down from the roof and the same. We got up phase brother, then rush back to the car closed-door. I Betty did hard auto Miguel moment. Havi heated hall, you don't away. Look at me. We go rent Kramer. Oh dog. He's kind of baller you keep gulag you keep the door. He loud remark by for now. Yeah. Give Koto go Nomo, Colin never know. How? That's how I picture I'm kind of getting excited, then they started creature spreads wings first time flop in the darkness, leaving the children's stunned. Phase scribes moth man by saying I'd say it's close to five six feet, right? Same description same scrutiny, given shells dollar story to the local author Jeff Watson for that. Same book reference to five Mothman behind the red is I think I mentioned that one already fading went on the monster quest television show was later featured in the eyes of the Mothman documentary two dozen seventeen faith here to the Mothman of point pleasant documentary. Documentaries about movement when acid she thought the creature could have been some sort of mutation. She said this was not a mutation. This was something that was perfectly formed the way it was supposed to be just like any other thing is okay. If you'll recall from the men in black suck it was around this time that the men in black suppose, he started busy Mothman witnesses said in that suck that local West Virginia journalists Mary higher was approached by the men in black who asked her to stop reported on mouth, man. And then if you recall just just just gave. Up and left alone. When she said, no, she said, yeah. Okay. I'm going to keep reporting. No, okay. He's left. She she said other locals were approached by the men in black one was the witness. We just spoke oh fade to at the port face said that would her and her brother tried to return to the TNT few days after side it was blocked off by two minute. Black would not let them enter one of the four Mossman witnesses. You really kicked off the news coverage the Mothman back on November fifteenth, Linda scarberry would also claim to have had a minute black encounters. She later said in an interview the men in black were black suits, black, hats and sunglasses. The drove black cars Cadillacs, I think look like human beings, but their skin was somewhat transparent. You can see the veins in their hands. Very clearly their fingers were longer than normal person's fingers as well. Daddy, shook hands with him. And he said they were awkward and shaking hands. I'd say know got an alien how shake handwrite they seem to know. What to do? They seem to not know what to do or how to shake hands. That is kind of a funny. Other people give like like some creature is going to be smart enough to travel around the galaxy. Immediately get to you know, you Afo or cryptological sightings and start interrogating people. But not figure out how to shake a fuck in hand. Okay. She said one of the cars would follow us around. There were three men in the car. The men in black went so far as to follow us through the drive through restaurant. We were afraid to turn around and just looked in the mirror, Adam, okay? Within two weeks of the initial publication of the first month man side inside he's a decrease your tapered off. But did steadily kind of poor in. For the next year until December of nineteen sixty seven a steady stream of sightings of everything from an impossibly large bird to giant out the devil himself sitting next to one man in his bedroom at night, Lawrence gray of point pleasant reported feeling something like that was in his house looking all over in the middle of the night, finding anything. But then when he he laid back down his bed lie back down rolled over. There was there was a wing humanoid red is sit in his room staring at him. He was paralyzed with fear claims, it was the devil himself. So these sightings are still going on right people claiming to see all kinds of monsters, even see the devil. He said it dissipated advantage into thin air. And then he woke his wife up who greed that it was the devil. This does not feel like a moth main incident, but it's part of the lore. I love those wife agreed that it was the devil. He saw. It's just a devil. Larry does not math, man. Just just same and go back to bed. I'm sure he's moved down some other center. What have you been doing? Anyway today will come to our homeland. Have you been hanging around that corner tavern star? Lease ask you. Two women swore. They saw Mothman fly to meet a UFO. It's one of the most outlandish sightings on may nineteenth nineteen sixty seven the flying creature with glowing red eyes approached hovering luminous object and disappeared. Brenda stone thinks she thinks she saw November nine hundred sixty seven four adult males claimed to have encountered a giant gray creature figure with red eyes while hunting and chief cornstarch park and West Virginia so frightened. They never thoughts. Raise the rifles. And after the creature was gone, December fifteenth nineteen sixty seven the Mothman sightings seemed to come to an end exactly thirteen months after the stories began at five oh, five pm local time that cold winter's day these silver bridge, connecting point pleasant West Virginia to Gallipoli. So high collapses on the coldest day of the year, forty six people die nine more injured two additional people disappear. It's the worst bridge accident in American history up until that point for days rescue workers pulled smashed cars and bodies out of the river in an interview bridge collapse. Survivor charleen would said. When I got to the traffic light here in point pleasant. I got the red light when it changed. I started going onto the bridge and just about that time the British started shaking. She heard a loud noise and thought that a boat had hit the bridge underneath she reversed. Her vehicle as the bridge began folding inward on himself with retire stopped on the ledge where broke off men that'd be scared to come that close. The department transportation conducted detailed investigation of the claps found the cause to be a small tenth of an inch two and a half millimeter deep defect on the thirteenth steal pin. Eibar on the bridge that was improperly manufactured unlucky thirteen. Couple of sightings of moss men were said to have occurred near the bridge before the incident. Nothing that nothing that there are records of or names attached, you just whisperings. Rumors eventually spread that the bridge. Collapsed was connected to Mossman in some way. And the Mothman could have been trying to warn people about the bridge collapse. Couldn't some kind of dark premonitions harbinger of doom. Right. This is the beginning of that part of the lore. And that while it doesn't take out of the moth man story does take out of today's time suck timeline. Whoops. Good job soldier made it back. Ben. Sorry about the but mistakes little I cry a little fancy try to sneak around on the soundboard and throw some James Brown into the store earlier. And I forgot that done that I left the wrong thing up. It's okay. Okay. Okay. Right. So we still got out of the time line. Okay. While Mothman sides, West Virginia have been rare since two claps the bridge. Nineteen sixty seven other sightings of wing cume noise have accompanied other disasters around the world, adding to the Mosman legend like the Blackbird her noble. The Blackbird of tra- noble is an internet legend about an allegedly seen creature in Ukraine around the nuclear power plant in the weeks leading up to the disaster. Noble debt Zastava on April twenty six thousand eighty six description, very similar to the Mothman creature humanoid appearance of black or dark ran coloration wings and glowing red is supposedly sided by several workers before they died. Was the black Birch noblest same creature is the one seen prior to this over bridge disaster. Or was as some have suggested was it a just a a rare black stork or entirely an internet legend story doesn't seem to appear to be any known newspapers or book publications, you know, back around the time of the disaster doesn't show up anywhere until about fifteen years ago. The earliest known telling of this tale come from a two thousand five posed on American monsters dot com, which says beginning in April nineteen Ninety-six. A rumor tore through the ranks of what was a little known nuclear power plant located in the southern tier of Ukraine tra- noble in the days preceding, the tragic meltdown. Four noble, employee's had reported seeing what they claim was a large dark headless man with gigantic wings and fire. Red is turnover employees began to share unsettling and strangely similar experiences. Some had been having horrifying nightmares while others received threatening phone calls, according to the count some of these employees even mentioned their bizarre experiences to their superiors. At the facility, but without evidence or any clear indication of what the problem may be. There was very little these officials could do even had they've been willing to take action. So, you know, and there was just, you know, so there's a little bit more to the room as Soviet helicopters circled, a smoldering plant dropping over five hundred pounds of clay sand lead and other extinguishing chemicals on top of the flames. Some of the surviving workers who at the sacrifice of their own lives. Roque struggled to prevent further destruction claim to a witnessed what has been described as a twenty foot burn gliding through the undulating tentacles of era. Irradiated smoke spewing from the reactor when it melted down. Mothman is also tied to the collapse of the World Trade Center Towner towers, use me and New York City on a nine eleven following the terrorist attacks rumors emerged that witnesses reported seeing the large crane like figure in the vicinity of the towers five days prior to the attack. You know, been thirty one years since any such Mosman siding and North America now on the day of the horrific attack. Mossman was reported to have. Appeared again, some claiming they could see his face to clouds of smoke, debris to image is said to have been taken by Steve Maran show. What is thought to be Mosman in New York City on September eleventh two thousand one Mothman? Okay. So he says I live in New York. And when I heard the twin towers were attacked I immediately rushed to the scene to take photographs. First of all, I took pictures of medical workers who are providing assistance, then I took pictures towards the site towards the south on Greenwich street when I got home realized there was an object that caught my camera. Steve went on looks like an angel hovering above the ruins of the World Trade Center, fractions, maybe it's not a pigeon or a store because they're large-size. Moreover, we do have we do not have the pelicans or bird carcasses near. Okay. So anyway, he did his picture and I've seen it different versions of this. This photo and stuff on the web to me. It looks Photoshop looks very photo shopped, but you know, read the comments I don't eat the videos lifespan YouTube of when things so and then in two thousand seven Mothman became associated. Another bridge collapse. This time in Minnesota. The I thirty five west Mississippi River bridge aficionados bridge nine three four zero with an eight lane steel truss arch bridge that carry interstate thirty five west across Saint Anthony falls of Mississippi River in Minneapolis Minnesota on August. First two thousand seven during rush hour is suddenly collapsed killing thirteen people injuring another forty five another excuse me one hundred and forty five the bridge was Minnesota's third busiest carrying one hundred and forty thousand vehicles daily and design flaw was also likely to cause of that collapse. The bridge was coincidentally built in nineteen sixty seven same year the silver bridge collapsed in point pleasant. Another weird numerical Winstons Minnesota bridge was a portion of I thirty five silver bridge was part of US highway thirty five not to mention that. The death toll is number thirteen reoccurring number the Mothman legend, George Noory, host of the coast to coast AM program. We've talked about in a few alien Centric sucks to various calls from individuals who reported many kinds of strange creature. In the days after this collapse. People told their own eyewitness accounts for hours. However, the the, you know, these calls came in after the bridge collapsed, which is a little suspicious to me, but again still part of the Mothman lore now and there's other random encounters with winged humanoids at times of disaster. Like, the two thousand nine swine flu outbreak in Mexico. Multiple tents two thousand nine residents of LA junta or excuse me in the next considered. Wawa began noticing a strange creature in their midst very tall, and Harry with too expensive, wings and wide bloodshot eyes. One young student reported the creature chased him relentlessly during this time the area to see a rise in swine flu cases tied to this ongoing. Two thousand nine outbreak of two other witnesses claim to have heard the creature in an apple orchard near a cemetery. So some people do believe this is part of the Mothman kind of lower nineteen seventy eight a group of miners in Friburg, Germany came face to face with the seemingly headless creature with glowing red eyes. Chest block in the minds entrance. I thought it was a man in the trench coat quickly realized he was not a coat because then it unfurled huge black wings. The men remain the men remained the mine entrance stunned inserted into creature until a blood-curdling screech centimeters scrambling out. And then about an hour later. They felt a seismic rumble and witnessed a plume of dust shoot from the mind as it collapsed. Excuse me, if the men had gone to their stations as usual the majority would have died that day. So appears that what what has been dubbed, the Friburg shrieker may have saved their lives. However, I cannot find again any original sources for that legend, and I and I have a feeling kind of like the tra- noble in nine eleven this was manufactured on the web kind of like that Russian sleep experiment. And then there's also the Fukushima nuclear meltdown where Marcus pools and American visit Japan was near the plant in two thousand eleven when he suddenly heard a loud whooshing sound terrible screeching. And then he thinks he saw this, you know, creature with large black wings. So there's there's. You know, even other less cited and more obscure supposed legends. So what do I think about Mothman? What what do I think it or he is if anything I will sum up my Mossman thoughts right after we check in with the web on today's idiots of the internet. Internet. At the right time. I want that. And put my record put my accuracy record nailed it today. The first video is looked at as the Mothman documentary. Just over a million views exposed on November twenty fifth two thousand fifteen by top fives. Funny, do jig Jones brings up an excellent point saying, maybe it's just a huge asthma off be so creeping great. If there was just some giant man-sized moth out in West Virginia. I would rather be attacked by moth, man. I think that a giant moth, it's terrified user, Nina. Morales makes an interesting project M K ultra connection saying this is the time when the was experimenting with LSD. So maybe they were having a lot of fun LL fucking with. This town, Anita is correct about the timeline. I mean, the point pleasant Mazda inside incurred what December of our excuse me. The point the bridge clubs sixty seven. You know, the occurrences recurring Mosey in the fall of sixty six M K ultra LSD experiments ran from nineteen Fifty-three until seventy three. They were headquartered at least initially and camp Dietrich. Now, fort Dietrich, Maryland point pleasant only about a five hour drive west excuse me, a four Dietrich, and if you'll recall from the K ultra suck the CIA did dose unsuspecting citizens with LSD at happened for sure the United States president's commission on CIA activities within the United States set up under president Gerald Ford, nineteen seventy five to investigate the activities of the CIA and other agencies within the US commission, led by vice President Nelson Rockefeller, sometimes referred to as the Rockefeller commission did uncover all of this user. Nick does knows that the Mossman Israel is one hundred percent. Sure, he started out, and he posts Mothman is real. I can't say for sure yet. He's a real, but Mossman and LSU macabre or real just because MAs man hasn't been seen. Doesn't mean. It isn't there as well. Well, I think Thunderbird is also possible. But I know scientifically highly unlikely it's just hard for me to imagine every creature from the sea to the land in the skies have all been cartography on on some list, that's playing ridiculous to sit here and say moth, man, or the lesser known creatures. Besides yet, he's are not real as quite silly. A whole town freaking said they saw or saw something. So question is do you believe it was a moth or a bird? Okay. It's a very confusing argument. It's a new species are still being discovered so to claim a species isn't real doesn't make sense unless his Bigfoot that doesn't seem legit and I questioned the existence of thunder birds, but MAs man, tuba Kara. Of course, they exist. I just love like the strange lines. He's drawn. You're right. This is like Frankenstein bunch of horse shit Dracula. Oh, yeah. Fucking courses real. I mean where will? Yeah. I one hundred percent. I just love the he is so sure that yeti yeti. Get out of here. No fucking way Mosman. Yes. Unless you're an idiot. You'd know that real what a weird reality for him live in that house Mossman more credible than yeti for secondary thought. I'd love to talk to him to find out. But I would hope I never talked him. It'd be a terrible. I would hate to be cornered by that maniac user shawny gaming is my spirit animal in this thread. She posts ha I'm here to warn. You of a disaster about to happen. I can somehow sense disasters before they come. But can't write a note talk or actually land on the bridge in public to bring attention to myself. And the problem I have to be cryptic scare people and random areas, hoping they somehow get the message and maybe sneak onto the bridge for two seconds and fly away. If you can't tell if I know hard to believe, whatever was here wanted to ring knowledge of the communist Astor, I love it. Yeah. If MAs man is real if there was a real cryptic creek. I don't believe we're second was trying to warn people that anything like what a shitty Harvard. Do leave a fucking note already you worthless. Moss creature stop attacking cars, scaring teenagers and just leave a note show up on the bridge wave wave a note. Don't it's gonna crash now, I'm I'm a weird monster us listen to me. Now, stop stop stop play quick. Michelle, something is the worst warning system in the history of disastrous user, Tanner Phoenix also brings up a great point posting, wait. This thing showed itself to a woman and her baby followed people in their car peered in someone's front door window. But when the police arrived this thing runs away. How does it know of the police exactly it doesn't know how to warn us? You know? But it does know what police are lot of logical 's some of these sightings user, Sahara, Osmond has a funny replies. I guess they had Weeda couldn't take the risk user. Jack Pritchard boasted comments similar to so many of those. I saw on this long thread saying a moth hit me when I was watching this coincidence. I don't think so. I want to make fun of this. But I can see myself doing that same thing like, you know, just watching Mothman video after Mossman video alone at night videos with jump cuts and spooky and suspenseful soundtracks working yourself up. And then suddenly a moth lands on price beat myself. Pretty good too. I I try to I try to find some good wackadoo video from someone who claims to have witnessed Mothman first hand. And you know, they're all all these witnesses seem to have one thing accommodation see Mossman, they have no idea how to record a decent video with solid audio. They they loved record outside in the wind or at the Mothman festival with a classic rock band behind them making it almost impossible to see understand what they're saying a good Mothman witness interviews almost as allusive as MAs man himself or just painfully boring, but eventually for a lot of digging I found some clips from a destination destination America show called mountain monster monsters, a mountain monsters wackadoo jackpot mountain monsters is five of the most hill. Really looking mother fuckers you've ever seen in your life going out in the woods looking for Bigfoot Mossman other crypto leads they are so deliciously bat shit. Crazy. There's buck bucket as an expert collar who looks like Larry the cable guy's long lost little brother a guy who'd like to get it done. But has a hard time getting started. There's trapper John ties the team leader who looks like monster hunts part time when he's not making moonshine or participated in civil war reenactments, there's Jeff the team researcher who looks like Santa Claus is Santa left. The North Pole traded his red and white suit in for some dirty, gene, overalls and abandoned Christmas to be a Rhody for bluegrass band that only plays in West Virginia county fairs there's Willie their expert trap builder. Who's traps haven't caught a single crip toward ever? How do you? Call yourself an expert trap builder. When you're never catch. What you're looking for ever one time. He does like an extra from duck dynasty looks like one of the Robertson's who was never allowed on camera because he looks to read Nick. And then there's my favourite a man who goes only by the name of Huckleberry like like some sort of backwoods Drake or Madonna just a one name entity. He's headed team security. This is living alone in the woods for at least a decade, and he's been living in the woods after he escaped from mental institution. And one clip. I found Huckleberry claims you've been hypnotized by crypt it in the middle of the night. And the rest of the team decided to throw him in a river to snap him out of it. So good so good before we hear the clip. Let's let's listen to Huckleberry to get a little bit of fulfil for Huckleberry. I want you to listen to him talking about a childhood encounter. He's opposed Lee had with sat bothered me for forty six years. It's hard to talk about I'm telling you guys because we're friends with family which wedded together. We've bled together. Yeah. But still dramatic art and forty six years ago, nineteen sixty nine we have a garden background pump. The hill would got out here. A couple of times a week help grandpa Hove pick. We'd me and my brother a mom and my grandpa was back. Banging went back girl, and he'll garden won't pick me. Well, we picked our Mutuel being asked him Fe de today. Anything L now. Go ahead and run around for. Well, we both have the tomato. Remember that? Because was he the? Intimate us. Yeah. People did it. We worked out around us all horse trail out there. So far sort of it's all at Chaplin's about ten foot tall, Emma, brother, third rock hill. Okay. And all and something take a knee sapling like it was really pissed off on just shit beating the sapling back and forth. Uh-huh. You could see the tops of just being Fraley from one side to the other. We're watching this all of a sudden great big huge hand. Or I'm up. I'll the tops of them brush handle to this one tree, right? Okay. Okay. Four armone. This thing was that big around. He describing twice as big as his especially and goes big red. There is no doubt in my mind. It'd squirts you like tomato if it wanted to I guess Michael berry doesn't impress easy for him to be impressed by this creatures four arms. Yeah. This thing must be mass stepped up on his role. And when it did I got to see the shoulder shoulders was ever. But this one okay, we founded feed our I mean just as fast as we could run. Yes. No doubt in my mind whatsoever. That I seen a big foot that day apple told me that we should never talk about. Okay. A we've got an a we'll have another barrigan just downright mean. No. It's hard to talk about been ridiculed. What turnout school school to this day? People laugh at this thing damn near ruined my life. It ruined. My brother. Mom, mom, brother will not talk. What ever? He says a damn near ruin my life, married decision Christ damn near room. My lawf- my sauce forearm and nothing else them near room my life. I mean, luckily, I'm now successful Mothman hunter, however things could have turned out differently. As opposed to being a large. You know, bearded hillbilly and overalls looks like I haven't taken a bath in five or six weeks. Scrambling through the forest to catch me crypto things could have not turned out. So successfully, you know, and I love these days I've been thrown out of school sky so full shit who gets thrown to school for Huckleberry. You say stop big for you, did then you guess do. Don't you come back? You big foot lar-? No one has ever been thrown out of school. For thinking they saw Bigfoot dad, how come you never graduated high school? Well, I got kicked off talking about big. That's why that's why I tell you not to talk about monsters one time. I said, hey guys I've seen Vic and I never allowed to go to school after that ever again. And why would you not want to tell you like why was he so worried about telling his crypto eight hundred buddies this story like your? You're in the woods with a bunch of people looking for Mosman. And you're like, oh, man. I was out of hard time. Telling me about a time that you would think I was crazy for thinking. I thought a sketch wash all had a hard time. I was real worried about bringing this up. You're not fucking bringing it up to bunch of college professors bring up to your fellow monster hunters. Okay, it's interesting a little more about this crew. Let's listen to the clips the average age these guys about fifty about fifty years old. They've lost track of Huckleberry. They've lost Huckleberry. They're looking for Huckleberry in the woods. And they hear him screaming out in the forest, and he claims to attacked by Cherokee devil, who they think is a top of Bigfoot. This is so good. Okay. Here. We go. My point. Yep. Trying to get them off, man. They got a bunch of lights out there. Gus Gus Lakota third put them out put them out put them out put them up put them out saying, I just say San buck assault two great big glowing. Is we got Tim tortuous put out and had them lane near in a good spot? I wasn't real sure. What I? Definitely not alone in this. What's oh. You know? I miss I apologize. I I realized that in my notes initially I was going to go with the video of him getting tossed into the river. So I was how to tell you that he gets tossed in the river Huckleberry does get tossed to the river. And then I realized I'm like, well, that's not even a man video 'cause there's so many things that are titled Mossman. And then it's I thought maybe the Cherokee devil was tough Mothman. No this sorry. Set up the wrong thing this video. He's guys are just shining. Flashlights? This time around out into the woods and hoping to attract Mothman hoping to hoping that their random flash. Flashlights? Will see Mothman. Her herbs up hurts own looking up up screech down junior. Seriously. You hear Jeff? What was that? I didn't what helpful here stuff done. It's not there was that the trap walk around the dot. Of course, it wasn't trap. Never everyday thing. Was that Tim? Got stuff falling from trees. We've got all kinds of movement going around. So I'm sure that we're not lying in this Woodson. I. Then you hear noise. All god. Oh god. Oh, no. Senate. I didn't even see oh Kim. Okay. And so that's that's they think they see. They don't see it. Again. I watched this video so many times, and it is like it's either. Flashlights? Or either to flashlights next you or it's just a car's headlights in the distance. They're like very it's just, but it's clearly like a like a man made light it looks. There's no red. It's nothing. And then and then in the comets underneath user Curie guy brings up an important question when it comes up to hunting moss the night. She's like why don't they use night vision? But yeah, they're this camera crew on the woods middle night. But they don't have night vision goggles and then frogger logo says something along the lines of. But I'd say he goes because if they did you would see a truck exactly exactly if Mosman Israel. I guess he's smart to make sure those it has never find him. The internet. Sorry, as I started to sit at the wrong video there man, other one was was was funny to me. But then I was like had anything to do with mob. It is very hard to find decent stuff about Mothman on the web isn't just the same kind of like shitty Photoshop stuff or just terrible terrible audio quality. Okay. So let's so let's before you just kind of say what I think about man. Let's just go over the popular theories about what he could be obviously there's bird. We've talked about that one a lot you know, that I don't think it's probably a bird. Al some people think it's an owl similar same thing. With me. I don't think it's an owl other way too small in December of nineteen sixty six big ass. Alabbar now was killed just outside outside of point pleasant. Did make the local papers it was during the whole Mossman craze. It did have a wingspan of nearly five feet. However, its body is so tiny a two foot tall bar now is a gigantic barn. Now. They generally don't have bodies more than fifteen inches long. And and they way generally less than two pounds. The very light two pounds actually a very big bar now. So they're mostly feathers long way for human looking alien is alien. I mean, okay. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I guess it could be that's one of those things where you can kind of you know, if you're gonna say for another planet. I mean, everything's up for grabs. Is it a Thunderbird will? I I I didn't notice Thunderbird was that came up one of the witnesses witnessed I forgot as an American Indian legend is The Thunderbird, and there is American legends from this area straddling point pleasant. The do have tales of these giant birds the big enough to swoop down and carry a man and depictions and represented artifacts images do resemble Mossman. That's true. I guess this things about in the woods for hundreds of years. Most legend suggests that Maas man's Thunderbird. Excuse me, do have the ability to shape shift into human form, the believed to watch happenings in human life. According to the gong legend thunder verge of the ancestors of the human race in of the protect or protectors of humans. I guess. You know, it could be you know, Mosman could beat Thunderbird in the sense that Mosman could be fucking, you know, unicorn leprechaun or anything else that we don't know exists toxic mutants. That's my favorite theory that Mothman is a product of this, you know, munitions kind of dumped it the chemicals the chemicals stored out in that TNT area. You know, did they create some kind of monster? If you listen to the Tra noble, suck you learn that, unfortunately, the forest and streams around that nuclear meltdown site aren't full of of men or people who who can start fires with their minds or three headed bears or alligator people or wing, snakes or anything cool at all pretty certain that giant mutant creatures especially cool ones. Rising from toxic waste is only the stuff of comic book legend and not real life. So no, I don't think that's even possible. There are some who think you know, if we found that Maas man's in angel. I I guess weird. Very not helpful angel something it's a demon. If it's demons not a very terrorizing daemon. I mean, didn't actually hurt anybody. Some people think a strange identified flying machine like some kind of experimental government flying machine that threes the dumbest theory, probably like if they had a Mossman suit back in nineteen sixty six why don't they have way more advanced flying suits now that we know about, you know, technology's advancing an exponential rate ever since then interesting, I think actually, maybe the most credible promising theory. I did come across my research that I haven't brought up yet is that Mossman was actually a feral polish person living in West Virginia in the wilderness. There I I know I said, I don't believe the toxic waste can create a monster. But very little studies haven't done regarding polish people and toxic waste, the mixture of those two the few studies that haven't done do confirmed that pose people are not smart enough to know better than to eat toxic waste because they've lived on sausages and sauerkraut and stuff like that. For so many years. They're actually capable of living on just about any substance, including toxic waste, so you know, what some polish do living out there in the TNT area. Eat nothing, but chemicals, whatever birds and rats and faces you could get a hold of for years. I mean, it's possible. I would I would maybe even see a problem. You know point pleasant had a large influx of polish settlers in the eighteen twenties and eighteen thirties. They didn't stay in town long. They couldn't figure out how to do basic jobs like serve whiskey at bars without throwing on people's faces and fighting them, and you know, they couldn't figure out a close on convert how to not grunt, and they just kept doing typical polish jobs that infuriated other locals like fucking and in the middle street, or you know, a shitting in the isles of various businesses eating people's pets scaring kids on Halloween by by refusing to dress up and not look like monsters for at least one day lighting their hearts on fire that kind of post up, and so they were kind of pushed out into the nearby woods where they would just eat dirt and and their own shit and toxic waste and have sex their family. For over a hundred years before the Mosman legend showed up so what kind of creature does that create out ask my polish wife, but she'll she prayed to snarl and try to buy like normal, and they're gonna have to to stick stick. And you know, kind of poker back into the cage. I'm tired of having to do that. And everyone knows that. I'm kidding about the polish Friday, hopefully, one who listeners like cheese Christ. Okay. The final thoughts. What who knows what Mosman man is interesting tale? If nothing else I like folklore might be big hoax. If it is. I will say it's one the numerous people from different families in different towns in the same area all seemed to believe to this day based on the documentary footage. I've seen I find that fascinating nothing else. Where what if this know this one group of people did see like say a bird and worked themselves up that those four people of those two young couples? What are they saw bird worked themselves up? The story got into the paper influenced other people's imaginations, and then it just took on this life hysteria took over and people started seeing what they wanted to see, you know, that's that's to me. It's very possible. I don't think it's a harbinger of doom. Right. It was really bad. At Senator Senator warning. That was that's what it was. And maybe, you know, maybe there really was some fucking humanoid. Who knows maybe a sad story. That's true. What if there was some creature from another planet and other galaxy or dimension out there alone stranded? Right. Well, what was it doing out there? Do they get there? What did you think of those who who it saw, you know, where is it? Now. Can you imagine if you ended up stranded like in another realm or some other world, somehow creatures just as strange to you is as you are to them trying to get a good look at you trying to make contact with you capture you may be hurt or kill you. That's terrible. That's the truth. It seems Mossman did what I don't think. I'd be able to do on some other world, you know, got away. If it was a travelling from another land of hope it made it back home to his mouth wipe is mall kids, Hobie hope he's telling the story of all the crazy shit. He saw it was moss buddies to this day, would they believe him anymore that we believe those who may have saw him. I don't know. That's all I got. I hope you enjoyed it. Let's let's let's revisit the the most important point. They'll give one new piece of new information right now with today's top five takeaways time tough. Faithful number one. While later supposed sightings would come in from supposed- Mosman witnesses like Kenneth I forgot to mention a winged monster hanging out in the sky above us for a solid minute. To the four men. I was working outdoors with at the time Dunkin the legend really got going on November sixteenth nineteen sixty six when an article was printed in the local paper about two young point pleasant couples claiming to see Mossman the night before telling local police a wing humanoid chase their cars. He drove back into town and was waiting for them by the side of the highway when they went back to make sure what they saw was not in fact bird number two month. Men is most consistently described as a bipedal winged. Avian humanoid. His coloration varies from black grades even Brown or white, although it is usually the darker shades. He's often reported to be about seven feet tall with a wingspan of about ten feet. Plus the ability to fly over one hundred miles an hour. Sometimes you described as not having a head with two huge red is sentenced chest. These is reported to. Glowing. Or at least reflective next wings, the intense. Glowing or at least reflective red is of MAs seem to be the creatures most consistently described physical feature number three. The vast majority of Mothman side into Kurd between mid November nineteen sixty six and December fifteenth nineteen sixty seven when the silver bridge that rose above the Ohio river and connected point, pleasant West, Virginia and Delap Elise. Ohio collapsed and took the lives of forty six people ever since many Mosman believers believed that Mothman tried to warn people about that collapse. Number four, I believe in the possibility of Mothman being real more than I believe in the collective credibility of the entire cast of destination America's mountain monsters, unless your last name is Finn. I think it's super weird to go by the name of Huckleberry number five, new info seems that if Mosman is indeed real he may have moved to Chicago recently. They were fifty five reported Chicago area sightings of a flying humanoid in just two thousand seventeen alone. Accounts vary regarding what his creature looked like range from a large black bat like bean with glowing red eyes to a big Al or something that resembled a gothic gargoyles or Mothman most eyewitnesses spotted the bean in flight, but some particularly disturbing reports detailed dropping onto Hood's cars peering into windows and swooping down at bystanders one Chicago, and who claims to have seen Chicago Mothman is John Metron, oh who was working Friday shift security for Chicago's popular Logan square. Hang out the owl during the summer two thousand seventeen when he went outside and saw something odd he told vice I saw a plane flying. But also something moving really moving awkwardly under it. It didn't look like a bat so much as what was illustrations of pterodactyls look like with the slenderness of its head and its wing shape. I know what birds and what bats looked like this thing didn't have any feathers refer, and it didn't fly like anything I've ever seen and Metron. Oh, added that the thing he saw two Cording to him at muscular legs, a jutting tailbone. Human like shape, flew in a strange swooping motion undulating up and down after it flew away. He re- freed his phone from charging in the bar, Texas girlfriend, close friends what had happened. I remember thinking. This was the worst time in the world to have my phone charging, dammit. Why is it always those situations? Why can't these things every peer in front of someone who has a fully charged phone like most of us do and a camera ready to go like most of his do? Mas man, if you're out there. Give us a decent photo for once who make a fantastic update to this suck time. Mothman has been sucked. I enjoy taking a little stroll down to crypto zoological Ville for that one. Love me, some folklore love me some some paranormal. If that's what it is. You know, whether I believe it or not I still entertained by these stories, it's already a weird world. Maybe maybe who knows man maybe Mossman is out there making a little weirder. Malls, man, burning out of food in woods alone. And I'll think is gonna be long long time for mouth man takes the photo. We can find his NADA and is not on. How who no no, no? He's malls, man, mov man out of feelers coddle loan. What am I neighbours think of that? Hope they liked it. Hopefully liked it. Have you joined the cult of the curious private Facebook group yet have you? There's over six thousand times suckers in the private cozy curious group on Facebook over twelve hundred discord members now linked the discord chatroom messaging app right at the time. So cap linked to the private Facebook group into the discord challenge today's episode description, not a good meat Saxton law. Good stuff in there next week. The spaces have spoken. They voted in another fantastic topic. The bubonic plague the black plague the black death. Black death was a devastating global epidemic. Struck Europe and Asia in the mid thirteenth. Hundreds the plague arrived in Europe, thanks to Mongol soldiers. Literally catapulting plague infected bodies over the walls of the Black Sea city of kaffa and thirteen forty six. Yup. That was an intense intense day for those people seeing some some soldiers getting flung over the walls over the next five years. The black death would kill more twenty five million people in Europe, something many many more than that possibly. We'll over third of the entire population and millions of others across the globe. It's been called by historians. The greatest catastrophe ever blood and pus seeping out a strange swelling to host of other horrible symptoms, fever chills. Vomiting diarrhea terrible aches and pains. And then in short order sometimes very short order death. The play was terrifyingly efficient and fourteenth century. Humans had no idea. No idea what the hell was causing it people who are perfectly healthy when they went to bed. One night could be dead by morning, the black death. We shall Succoth at next week. Some greatest history of the greatest excuse to talk about it. Insane. Medieval doctorate assist. Okay. I'm done. Now. Check in once again with the Colton curious in today's times updates. In time Sunday update. Kick things off with an interesting. Ed Kemper update from time sucker Tyson Rothrock, Hello master, sucker. My name is Tyson Rothrock planning on being a space within the next few weeks. I'm writing in after listening to the sick fuck. Add Kemper after learning. He was caught in my hometown of Pueblo. Colorado it blows my mind that he makes a long list of serial killers caught in my hometown, Leo j Romero of blow was linked to three killings during a twenty seven year Penn spin. He was sentenced to ten years to life in prison for the nineteen fifty five slain of John Metaxas in Pueblo while in treatment at the Colorado state hospital nine hundred sixty nine he stabbed and killed Philip patient Gilbert, Romero, Leo Romero, no relation to Lille Romero escaped from the state hospital nineteen seventy-two stabbed to death Berina Martinez. The Pueblo Carl Taylor, Texas drifter whose family was linked to a murderous cross country crime spree was prosecuted in Pueblo in nineteen seventy four after heavy publicity tainted the jury pool in Denver. He plead guilty to the nineteen seventy-one killing of a young waitress in lake. Quid he'd MiFID roles in twenty murders and six other states, John Edward Robinson, senior was linked to the deaths of fifty one year old Sheila Dale faith in her wheelchair bound daughter Twenty-one. My God both of web low the face disappeared after a few months or a few months after they moved to pub- low from California in nineteen ninety four. The bodies were found in June two thousand inside a storage locker that Robinson rented in Raigmore. Just a side note the city is shit hole. Where crime is inevitable. But just thought it was weird all of them are caught in one town keep on sucking to doing great things Tyson. Dow man, wow. Thank you Tyson lot of darkness darkness for a city of roughly one hundred ten thousand people never been to Pueblo been all over the country. Every state I've yet to make it to Pueblo Colorado, though, not giving me a lot of good reasons to visit random trivia Pueblo is one of the largest steel producing cities in the nation also bat Masterson, what are the gunslingers? And the doc Holliday suck was once sheriff of Pueblo and David Packard, the co founder of Hewlett Packard computers. The man dubbed the father of silicone valley born and raised graduated high school in Pueblo. So some good stuff just keep on sucking Tyson. Made up most mouth word definition coming in from time sucker, Jeff Asser. Jeff rights hail masters suckers. Here's the definition of decapitated. No. Here's the evidence. That's right because I messed up that word. Here's the definition of decapa decapitated decapitated adjective to forcibly remove a person's cap from their head and throw it down upon the ground. Followed by stomping on it. Furiously. Taunting the person from which it was removed decapitated pootie decapa cake and decapitated shoe while yelling put that your lunchbox sheerly. Another weirdly funny case, if Moshe mouth hopes gives you laugh did hail Nimrod, Jeff Asser. Thank you. Jeff. I appreciate it. I'm sure there was a lot of stuff. I mess today. I heard that. I can't believe I yeah. I apparently needed to clean my notes a little bit. And I went over this one so many more times in so many other sucks men. Mas man was I I will say just really quick tricky because the dates listed for the same events or all over the place on the web, you know, when you get into like folklore paranormal. I'm like, yeah. But I want to correct thing. But I don't know if there is a correct thing sometimes, you know, and man like read ten articles about Mothman in roughly about the same events, and sometimes it's very different telling anyway. Fantastic area. Fifty one suck update coming in from showery. Shari? Harbinger, Shari writes, dear master, sucker, a recent discovered time suck majority very much. I think people are too hard, and you missed pronunciation, I don't mind. I don't mind. Thank you. I'm still trying to catch up. So I hope no one has already updated this. I just finished area. Fifty one suck. I learned some interesting or wackadoo info from a book, I listened to while I was still a believer. Ironically, this book killed my belief. It's called area fifty one by any Jacobson. She told me a lot of the info you did regarding the secret projects she claimed to have interviewed one of the top scientists that worked at area fifty one anonymously. Of course, the big twist in the end was revealed to be about the Roswell incident apparently Stalin had heard about the panic caused by the war of the worlds broadcast, and he which happened way early and he wanted to create another panic he could benefit from. So he made. So he made a fine saucer that crashed on purpose. The pilots at this UFO were children. He had altered with sadistic plastic surgery to look like aliens, boom mind blown seems like a bunch of MEDA bullshit to me. But what do I know? Thanks to the podcast clean houses for a living in a makes painfully dill job much more fun in the Spartakist. Suck you kept saying dead. Dude bridge it made me laugh way more than it should have. My husband bought his tickets to see you live from my birthday next month and next month in Salt Lake City can't wait Shari harbinger. And then he's like sorry with an h if you wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't say your name love it. Thanks shari. Now crazy all just putting a. Yeah. You know, sullen probably have it. Right. He just put surgically altered kids in experimental aircraft. Unlike anything that ever flown in the forties, and then he just crashed in the New Mexico desert just to kind of confuses by instead of using that experimental aircraft technology to just take over the world. Yeah. He was just a twisted. Weird evil genius. Who had nothing better to do than just mind. Fuck americans. Yeah. I love it. I love it when they print things like that. As party finds hilarious print things like that. Because it's so over the top. But then I'm also terrified when I read reviews of books like that of people saying like, yeah. Yeah. Finally, I get all the dots are connected now. But that actually makes sense to a lot of people. I'm looking forward to senior Salt Lake City. Those shows are gonna be so much fun. Love performing there. A funny message for Meghan Wilbur Senate. I'd like to share about how important a dark sense of humor is to suckers. She writes. Dear Dan, I'd like to tell you story. A recently moved from Ohio to Florida take a job with a new sheriff's office and thanks for keeping a safe, by the way, this office, very formal by the book. So I've been you know, containing my weirder site. My my new Lieutenant was telling a story today. He's originally from Buffalo New York, he had a sister and brother-in-law still there some context, the whole family hated this doot, total toolbag, I guess. Sometime or one time they were jogging in a snowstorm went across the street and were hit by a car due to the poor visibility. The brother-in-law was killed. And the sister was seriously injured Q absolute silence and horror in the room. Then he said something along the lines of the Lieutenant said they had it coming who runs in a snowstorm. And that is how I discovered by the tenant has a beautiful sense of humor. And I'm going to be all right there. You're welcome space. Megan will I feel you I feel like would work out for very shows in the past at first you're feeling people out, and you just waiting for somebody to say something dark when you have a sense of humor. Like, I do come on open that door, and then so much so much more relaxed effort happens because oh, yeah. When you're surrounded by a bunch of people who can't like make a cat head on sticks joke. There's shows like we did the Ed Kemper suck just so tense tight. All right now, some kick ass news coming our way from meat sack. Supreme Ian young who says well Dan way to fail. I recently. Listen to time sucks because it self. I can't believe I missed this one before. But I'm glad I caught it the second time around. I don't know how to properly articulate my feelings of pride and joy to hear about how many failures you had to hear about how many failures you had to suffer through before finally succeeding has inspired me to be willing to fail. A normally very reserved. I try to carefully calculate my every move in an attempt to avoid failure in any situation. Now, I've started to take this life out of the box and play with a little bit approach. This new coach landed me a new gig making almost double what I made last year. I'm working from one of the largest media companies in the world finally pushing the boundaries of comfort zone. I have you to think for that. Push. Thank you for enduring all the shit this soda you in order to get where you are. Now. Keep on sucking your loyal spaces in young hail Nimrod, you beautiful bastard, and you know, and by the way on those things I never wanted to come across like, I feel like oh, man. What was me because I'm glad how failures can shape me. And I was always have a roof over my head. So I always had like first world failures. I do think about that. When do historical stuff, you know, very hesitant to complain about about life in a real way other than maybe occasional frustration, you know, with a stranger being stupid, whatever. But as far as like, oh, man. Everything's terrible. Like now, I don't leave. The medieval Europe, I'm not worried about my fucking head cut off. Now, have disease isn't rampant and doctors aren't trying to sell my arm offer put leeches on me when something goes wrong. But yes, man, I'm so glad that inspired you that makes me very very happy more inspiration fullness. Keep you inspiration train rolling with another wonderful message from from from time suck wizard. Dustin Conoco, Dustin writes, dear master suck. Lord say, thanks if it doesn't make it to the show. No big deal. Thank you for all you've done. What time so recently? I've realized that both me and my amazing girlfriend were both at a decent risk for diabetes and heart disease. So we started dieting and working out. I've done this in the past. But no luck. But being able to listen to your podcast helpful. I'm at the gym. Also, the recent inspirational sucks you released over the holidays for my main motivation. I want to let anyone in the group. No. Just do it put your mind to it. And do it of lost twenty five pounds since the first and feel best. I have since junior high just wanted to say thanks could have done it. Without you sorry for the long long at all Dustin Conoco man, have it for you. Do he'll Nimrod kicking ass feeling. Good men feeling that should be the most important part of a diet or workout plan to me. I think if you do it for like just vanity reasons, I don't know if it's going to hold the small personal thoughts. But if you do it because I feel better feel better feel healthier able to accomplish more. Okay. Finally time sucker Joe Campbell closes things out today with some love for his lady. Dear Dan, Lindsay, Joe. And all other members of the time. So team just wanted to reach out and say, thank you for all the work. You guys do I'm so excited. I finally got to see you live your providence show. And I brought my girlfriend of two years with me. She has been forced to listen to your podcast for a couple of months before I showed her your comedy to really try to show her. Why you are the way you are. And it worked she has gotten to the point where she. Stop complaining the second. She started hearing your voice when we in the car together when we were leaving the show, I asked her should be more open to the podcast now, she immediately was open to listen to your clear, Patrick suck. Because that's always interested her. I know you make it a thousands today. But I would love it. If you could just give a little shout out to my beautiful girlfriend cat. I just want her to know that no matter how hard things may get between work and life. That are few our new for baby Bo she is tough enough to keep to get through it all with a perfect smile. A love you. And I hope we can continue to grow the other to the next for life. Sorry for the trail an Email, but I just really wanted to reach out after all this time and let you know, how thankful I am for putting out quality material each and every week, please never stopped being this crazy and fun to listen to as you are. I will forever. Appreciate the weird looks. I get whenever someone hears you talking about those sweet suck and skills of yours. Keep on sucking PS hearing you here come the spoons bid probably made two thousand nineteen. It was the first bit. I'd ever heard fee, and I was hooked right away. Thanks again for listen to noxious scream. And not tearing into me for being obnoxious. I remember that scream. Thanks again. Your little suck serving Joe Camel. Joe that was nice, man. That was very nice, you descendant and cats hope you're enjoying the sock. I hope you can listen to it together. And just gives you fun stuff to talk about. That's my favorite part about it. In the context of couples. I love talking about stuff more interesting than the weather, or what happened is sports that week not that you can also talk about that stuff. But I love having you fucking. Do you believe in them off? Man, you believe you believe that letting point pleasant do you think that's gonna happen to you, even Chicago people's or whatever leads you into a whole new conversation. It's just interesting and fun fun. That's why we're here. We're here for fun and to make my neighbors in the office building very very scared. Thanks time. Soccer nine needed. We all did. Say Showtime soccer's hope you liked if you head out into the woods at night looking for monster this week for God's sake. Bring a flashlight and more importantly, if you see a monster fine overhead during the day when your grave digging with some buddies fucking say nothing and keep on second. Her. All don't you'll stirred. My sister.

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126 - The Black Panthers

Timesuck with Dan Cummins

2:19:52 hr | 1 year ago

126 - The Black Panthers

"Talking about the Black Panthers today, not the movie they still in theaters that has already made roughly one and a half billion dollars worldwide series against a two hundred ten million dollar budget. As if Disney needed even more money could got pretty soon. We Americans will be living in the United States of Disney not talking about the large cats. It looks super cuddly, but could easily claw your face off right off your skull. And then pop what's left your school like grape and its powerful bad. Kitty joss talking about the black nationalist African American revolutionary group that kicked off in one thousand nine hundred sixty six the Black Panther political party that rose from the ashes of Malcolm X and stood as a fierce fighting example of black power during the civil rights turmoil of the nineteen sixties talking about a very complicated. Very polarizing group of freedom fighters and neighborhood protectors. Not an easy topic for a white dude to cover especially when lived in Idaho. But I'm just dumb enough to give it a go may Nimr. Have mercy on my soul. The Black Panthers have a complex history they fought for racial equality. They fought for a better future for black children. They fought to police. They bought the FBI they fought other revolutionary groups. They fought each other. They did a lot of fighting. And we're going to thoroughly suck their fight. There was at times incredibly racial and at other times at best morally questionable and almost always controversial today on time suck. Happy Monday time suckers work in fucking, wait. Happy black history month to my melatonin enhanced meets acts. He'll Nimrod hill LUSA FINA praise. Bojangles in triple thoughts. Go out to our strict suckers devastated by recent terrible catastrophic flooding read that over twenty thousand homes maven lost just devastating hope. All of you listeners over there are a okay time suck is brought to you again today by the Brome podcasts Bromo show about how it's okay to be a dude. But I'll dudes should be better dudes each week Umbro Joe and Ben pick a topic that they think duke's could use a little help with and based on what I've heard so far. This is fantastic info notches for dudes. But for all metex how to enjoy art how to talk to women how to build wealth. How to navigate discussions of different types of relationships. The guys are going to be talking about how your places gross, and how to fix it this week Joe, and Ben will share ideas on how to make your place, less disgusting. Practical tips like White House. So you can bleach him when you when you forget him in wash for two days. And then you don't have to spend the rest of your life smelling like a mold mildew, Joe asked me to share and he cleaned. I have but I'm a filthy dirt back, and I should probably listen to this episode of bro him a lot of great topics honestly, discussed give it a shot. Tune in each week for new topics new discussions and new ways to continue seeking and Lightman through dead. Lifts a podcast ran by time suckers and spaces broken Bruin up. B R O A M dot com. For more info Lincoln the episode description push button on the time. So if web or app website, what is called with website. It's called. I don't know something, you know, you don't talking about thanks to spaces monthly patriot contributions. At now allows to give sixteen hundred dollars this month to the cancer research institute hail Nimrod the cancer research institute is a five a one c three nonprofit organization dedicated to harnessing the human bodies immune systems power to control at potentially cure, all types. Of cancer. They find the most innovative clinical laboratory research around the world support the next generation that feels leaders service a trusted source of information on immunotherapy for cancer, patients and caregivers. Thanks to anyone also who recently purchased our Valentine's Day themed time so Pence check them out at the time. So shop vice store don't have to be just for Valentine's along with recent meet sack sweatshirts, so many other phone goodies. Thank you to access apparel for for creating so many fun goodies with it. And thank you to danger brain for creating so many fun designs, a recording this in advance of the Madison, Wisconsin shows hope they were amazing hope they went well, bringing the happy murder tour to Philly this week to get to the punch line shows in Salt Lake City, a wise guys next week downtown Trump shows sold out hill Nimrod for that. And then the star dome and Birmingham line in Atlanta that show is now sold out contacted the venue about trying to add a second show. Don't know if that will happen zanies in Nashville stand-up live in Huntsville, Alabama checkout, Dan. Dot TV for a full year of fun shows. More lives time sucks coming up in Cleveland, Nashville Spokane's, San Francisco, Orlando Phoenix, Denver Grand Rapids into coma. Time right now for the Black Panthers. To understand the black patterns of the nineteen sixties to understand. Why organization was ever thought up or formed in the first place? You have to understand what life was like for many black Americans in America in the nineteen sixties as best as you as you can particularly those living in urban areas. This is one of those sucks were context. Real important like super duper important before head down the the road of today suck just know that I love my black meets acts. My my white meat sacks. And my law enforcement, meet sex, all of you probably gonna hit that note several times today, you know, this is this is just a you'll see as we go through this episode. Why I say this now, but it is just it's a polarizing topic for a variety of reasons. It's just it's very complex. Obviously is the white man. I can't personally speak to what it is like to live as a black American in this or an any era knocking to try to do. So although according to my Twenty-three me results. I'm in fact, point three percent Sudanese point one percent sub Saharan African. Not kidding kidding. About acting like that gives me any any rights. Talk of anything not kidding about the results. But yes, obviously my results. Do not enlighten me in any way, whatsoever to the historical struggle and plight of many black Americans before I dive into the me this episode just know that I I do realism. What is fuck? I know I can't personally relate to widespread racial discrimination on any level just found the story. Fascinating wanted to suck. It follow where the truth and logic took me meets acts of all color, including myself all rationally critically thinking empathetic meets X. Can I hope at least understand what it's like to struggle? Hope we all at least recognize you know, that others are struggling and can empathize with them to some degree. We're all part of the same human experience. Another important is clamor before I go further. I am I am very racist. I just wanted to keep that mind when it comes to polish people many of you know, that I have some extreme prejudice. And and that's not widely accepted, you know, my views. So. I wanted to know that I'm not I'm not ready to accept the polish people as as full fledged human quite yet. And that's my right. And and I'm done with that tire joke. Now for this episode is calcium statement just keeps pulpit of my head. No real. Disclaimer. Now when it comes to issues involved rates, just like politics, religion, gender, you know, etc. Things have a tendency to leave the arena of logic and enter the realm of emotion, real quick sense of shit. And and that is why I'm gonna throw out some numbers to kick off the show a little bit of math numbers that make the case that life on average was unquestionably way fucking harder for black Americans that it was overall for white Americans in the nineteen sixties as it still is overall today, and that's not my opinion. That's a statistical fact has been documented by numerous comprehensive nonpartisan Saudis time after time after time, and if you're thinking, well, not black life isn't easy for me. I'm struggling I worry about rent every month. I know plenty of Latvia way, better off than my poor white s make more money than me make more money than my family ever has I struggle far more and every meaningful way than the people. I know are struggling with. The fuck, dude. I get it. Your feelings. Are valid struggle is real your hardships. Very real hell, yes. They are not denying that one bit. But this isn't about comparing a one individual life for the life of lives of one particular neighborhood or community to another isolated life or another isolated like community or neighborhood. It's about cultural trends, it's about trends. Overall overall tendencies for for the nation itself on average members of every race. But African American doing better than members of African descent United States because typically when it comes to average occasion level average income average incarceration rate. No one has had a rough go of it and black Americans. There are roughly a metric shit ton of staff the back claim up, and the these are liberal agenda numbers take it from, you know, some some some nonsense place from my more socially conservative listeners. This isn't from the liberal media, quote, unquote, you know, take a deep breath, grabs stress ball squeezing the numbers. We re relaying you or to you today are not gathered from white guilt dot snowflake. They haven't been taken from social Justice, warrior dot Crimea fucking river. They're taken from either the US bureau of labor the US census bureau or the US bureau of Justice. And if you think that those organizations are conspiratorially motivated in favor of the plight of black Americans the fucking logical pardon. You might as well turn this off. Now, there's quite literally nothing I can say to make any this appealing to you for those of you still listening, hopefully, everyone here are some numbers according to the US census bureau. The average household income for a white household in two thousand seventeen with sixty five thousand two hundred seventy three dollars average household income two thousand seventeen for white family. The average household income for a black household forty thousand two hundred and fifty eight that means that White House those made just as recently as two thousand seventeen on average over sixty two percent more than black households. Hope you predate those numbers. My demise had to relearn how to use Microsoft excel together, those why US census bureau, why put it in a PDF like every other place would do. Anyway, US bureau of labor statistics taken between two thousand fourteen two thousand sixteen show that the average household income for black Americans was lower than any other ethnic group lower the white American Indian Hispanic multi-race Pacific islander and Asian back in nineteen sixty seven the earliest year that the US census bureau. Data exists for for US how household income by race. And this is just two years after the Panthers were formed no one year after actually the disparity was even greater the and we'll get into the time suck time line for the Panthers here soon. But. Yeah. Back in nineteen sixty seven the median household income for whites forty four thousand seven hundred dollars compared to twenty four thousand seven hundred dollars for blacks, white people may just under eighty one percent more money than black people on average. That's concurrent. It's crazy some serious disparity. No consolation to you. If you're some poorest fuck white person living in nineteen sixty seven, but clearly overall black Americans not doing nearly as well as white Americans. And racist discriminatory practices. You know, culturally politically played a large role in that difference. How could they not according to the two thousand fifteen US census statistics around thirty six percent of white Americans have at least a bachelor's degree compared to roughly twenty two percent of black Americans almost sixty four percent more common for white people on average to have a bachelor's degree than black people as recent as two thousand fifteen the gap was even wider back in nineteen sixty five this is right around when the Black Panther party was formed that year before around fifty one percent of white Americans had graduated high school compared to only twenty seven percent of black Americans whites on average were almost eighty nine percent more likely to have a four year college degree than black Americans damn near ninety percent, more likely. To hold a college degree discrimination for sure playing a large role here generations of discrimination following centuries of actual literal enslavement now, let's talk about incarceration, according to two thousand sixteen bureau of Justice prison statistics, black Americans made up twelve percent of the total US population, but made up thirty three percent of the total US incarcerated population currently serving prison sentences, and I only add that little caveat. Because that differentiates these numbers is people having sense as opposed to people who just might be being held for like an upcoming trial or something white Americans made up sixty four percent of the total population made up thirty percent of the prisoner population and two thousand sixteen black Americans were incarcerated at over five times the rate of white Americans that's an alarming disparity that one was actually not worse in the nineteen sixties. It was just as bad in nineteen sixty lax were also incarcerated five times as often as whites. So why the nineteen sixties? Why did the Black Panthers form in this deck? Well, because as bad as things still were things were getting better due to the civil rights movement. And there was supposed to be getting a lot better. It was now safer to be visibly in publicly furious about racial mistreatment, thanks to new counterculture, the new counterculture movement that it was like a decade before, you know. Now, there was finally a little safer to to show your anger centuries of pent up rage. Reporting out of many African Americans. We've talked about the counterculture movement of the nineteen sixties and previous sucks such as the suck of Charles Manson Jim Jones children of God sucks. Amongst others. The American youth of all races were questioned thority very differently than their parents or grandparents had there was just a growing distrust of the government, partly to do with the growing Vietnam conflict part to do with that JFK assassination. You know, the inspiring leader of many young Americans in the early sixties was JFK, and then assassinated nine hundred sixty three and many believed the government had a hand in it. I still believe that today citizens. Questioning the government at levels not seen since the Bill to the civil war. Many white youths were strongly opposed to the racial segregation of their parents and grandparents generations of grandparents they were embarrassed by they also opposed the growing conflict in Vietnam. Young black Americans particularly disillusioned in the nineteen sixties. They just seen their fathers and grandfathers fighting World War Two and the Korean war Justice honorably as white soldiers and come back to a segregated country. Did not honor them the same as they honored. Why soldiers made them use different bathrooms sleep in different hotels shop in different stores, go to different schools. They were still being drafted into the military to fight honorably for a country that they didn't feel was treating them honorably and wasn't for more comprehensive look into racial segregation. By the way, you can revisit the Ku Klux Klan suck or the Martin Luther King junior suck. I sure you'd existed Civil Rights Act was passed in one thousand nine hundred sixty a federal law that established inspection of local voter registration polls and introduced penalties for anyone who struck did someone's attempt to read. To vote and then the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four was passed which ended segregation in public spaces and band employment. Discrimination on the basis of racist on the basis of race. Excuse me, color, religion, sex or nationality years of fighting and marches and protests and spilled blood, and beatings and death led to the passage of this legislation and things we're now supposed to be better, except they really weren't life for the average black American did not actually get that much better. After this legislation was passed not immediately anyway. And there was a feeling of betrayal of great, betrayal. Why somebody sacrifice to pass this new legislation to end racial discrimination, only to see new laws not being enforced in many places or people? Finding loopholes to get around these laws and still be very discriminatory. Imagine running the longest race of your life. Like, you don't think you can finish your body starting to revolt your muscles or cramping up? You're feeling dizzy your lungs of and burn for miles. He got blisters on your feet starting to bleed your knees aching. No more with every step. But then way out in the distance. You see that finish line? The thought of crossing that finish line is the only thing this keeping you running right? Dealing psychologically, motivating us. Okay. I just gotta get there. I just gotta get there. And then this is over and then I conflict it finished this race. And then with the last year strength. You cross that line you collapse victory. You fucking you. Did it it took everything, but you made it now imagine as you later your lungs are on fire your lips or crack from miles of hard breathing. Imagine some asshole standing over you say what the fuck are you doing? It's race. There's an over the I will never be fucking over you run. All you want. You will never finished. You'll never win. I am magic. That is roughly how the nineteen sixties felt on some level too, many black Americans they won. And then they asked us what was behind door number three. And it turned out to be someone holding a big sign that just said more of the fucking same. I mean, imagine if anybody imagine the feeling of rage, you'd have how dare you? Black Americans continue to suffer widespread. Discrimination economic, social and a qu-. After the passage of that legislation. Many black Americans have been moving to the cities of the north and the west for jobs moving to downtown areas in the forties and fifties this great migration, only define those jobs, then relocate to the suburbs. Many black populations ended up getting concentrated in poor urban neighborhoods called ghettos full of rampant unemployment substantial substandard housing widespread. Social problems such as drug use and crime black Americans seldom selves continuing to be excluded from political representation, universities all sorts of employment. Areas social Stratus such as the middle class. And I know you can point to examples of black Americans who did grow up in the ghettos. This time went to college became doctors lawyers account scientists professors and more who made good living to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. So to speak, those examples are real, but I feel like you also have to admit it's a lot harder to pull yourself up by your bootstraps. If feels like almost everyone in the country, it's stomping on your fucking boots. All the time. I've experienced racism as white man in small ways here and there throughout my life. I personally not been considered for for various comedy festivals. Mostly when I was younger in comedy in the past because they would just tell me straight up some version of the quote, we already have enough. Why guys I have had that said to me, you know, I've had TB concept. I wanted to pitch get rejected before even getting looked at because network was looking for a quote more diversity in programming which is code for anything. But more straight wide dudes. I mean that is a form of racial discrimination and pissed me off every time it happened. But there was always another job waiting for me. If I wanted to work hard. No fort what if I never exp- like experienced anyone considering me for a job because of my skin color. What if there wasn't any other doors being opened, you know, I haven't experienced ever an entire community entire nation. Taking a look at me and just being now. Nope. Next gone. Get out of here. Never lived in constant fear of incarceration, because you know, racist police officers patrol my neighborhood hoping to beat me or or beat someone who looked like me with the club. And I only bring all this up to illustrate that life was indeed harder for black Americans than white Americans in the in the nineteen sixties. And that is why the Black Panthers formed by they formed. They were they'd washed Martin Luther and watch Martin Luther King. The many people have been trying more peaceful protests that wasn't going well all the time. And some people were were sick of trying to go that route or like, no, man. Let's let's give fucking mad. Let's get angry. And let's let's take what's ours. You know, type of attitude and then before the plant the Panthers come along, Malcolm X came along, Malcolm X, paved the way for the pants without Malcolm X. There would be no Black Panthers. The Panthers heavily influenced by the teachings of Malcolm X, a man who will be a subject of a future succomb positive, Malcolm X. Born is Malcolm little was a preacher, son. His father was also an early black nationalist named Marcus Garvey, who died after being hit by a streetcar quite possibly murdered by white supremacists. Strongly opposed to his pro black messages his death left MacOS fan with little. Mhm such little income Malcolm's, mother, cooked dandy, lion greens. She'd picked on the street to feed our kids one point. That's when you know, you're superport like I'll joke about growing up poor and eat a lot of hamburger helper town, Idaho. But someone someone like Malcolm would say you got to eat meat you were fucking poor. You meet in burger Danielson broth made from dandelions pick from cracks in the sidewalk. That's poured. Malcolm's mother was then committed to an insane asylum when he was fourteen I imagine it's hard to not lose your goddamn mind when you're making your kids Daniel and broth Malcolm ended up getting raised the last few years of his childhood in foster homes with other family members after served a seven year prison stint for robbery he committed at age twenty one he became a prominent black nationals leader and minister for the nation of Islam, and Malcolm X came to be known nationally initially because of an incident of police brutality in New York City police brutality more than any other single issue would lead to the formation of the Black Panthers. On April twenty six nine hundred fifty seven Hinton Johnson, a member of the nation of Islam and to other passer-by also nation of Islam members witness police officers beating a young black man with night with their nightsticks. When Johnson shouted you're not in Alabama. This is New York and tried to help them in one of the officers turned on him and beat the shit out of him with his club beaten within an inch of his life. Johnson suffered brain contusions and subdural hemorrhaging. And then after the beating all four black men were arrested someone who witnessed the event found and told Malcolm X, and he and a small group of black Muslims went to the police station and demanded to see Johnson police police initially lied told him to Johnson wasn't even being held there. But then when a crowd of other African Americans hearing about the event hearing about the beating skewed event beating and gathering outside the station grew to about five hundred people the police officers did allow Malcolm X to speak with Johnson. Once Malcolm X saw would have been done to Johnson. He insisted on an ambulance taking him to Harlem. Hospital Johnson was taken to the hospital his injuries retreated. And by the time he was returned to the police station roughly four thousand people were now gathered outside the station an angry mob had formed. Authorities were getting nervous shit was tents inside the station. Malcolm X attorney made bail arrangements for two of the Muslims. Johnson was not bailed. But police did say he could he could. He could go back to the hospital until his Raymond the following day. Malcolm X, he had he had won the war. But he won a battle with officers that day, and so he stepped outside the stationhouse he motioned for the crowd to be quiet once they work, quite he farted one time just one time loudly powerfully poetically triumphantly. It was the signal to crowd waiting for it. And they storm the station in the end fifty riders thirty-five police officers died in additional sixty five officers hundred seventy two riders were wounded four structures, including the pre precinct burned to the ground in the clash that followed that fateful fart. The riot. That right is the origin of the term Bronx cheer? That's right. The Bronx cheer can be traced back to Malcolm X, nineteen fifty seven. It's also known as far her around the world. And that's not true. Malcolm is far this shit. So heavy I gotta ended up from time to time. If Malcolm X that day, no one wrote about it. He didn't say anything, and it's not relevant to the story. What really happened? He did come outside. He gave a hand signal to do crowd and the crowd dispersed. They knew what the hands of the west one police officer would later say, no one man should have that much power within a month. I'm guessing he said some other things that weren't quoted in the techs. Within a month in New York City. Police department arranged keep Malcolm X under surveillance tensions between the place and the black community in New York and around the country were growing, it was issues like this to push Malcolm X to hate not only police officers, but basically why people in general he started pushing an agenda via the nation of Islam that white people were quote devils that blacks were superior to whites. And that the demise of the white race was imminent. He was critical of the civil rights movement, even labeling Dr king junior chump and he called Dr king's nineteen sixty three March on Washington the farce on Washington. Now, do I like this element of his messages fog? No. Of course. I don't I don't like racism in any form. I don't like it when it's white against black. And I don't like it when it's black on white. But while I don't condone Malcolm X's racist rhetoric. I do have more sympathy for him than I do, you know for something like K K K leader, for example, because I feel people will not okay for them to say why is it? Okay. Not okay for either person to say that I don't think but when you're the victim of consistent, racial abuse. And then you and turn like we'll fuck those people. I have more sympathy for you than when you are on the team or on the side of consistent perpetration of racial abuse. Right. Malcolm's rage came from being a member of a race that truly was continually oppressed and victimized by the race that was in political and cultural power in the nation. He was born raised it. I mean, you know, he's different associations. The death of his father. You know, witnessing all these beatings. It makes more sense to me. I guess is what I'm saying doesn't make it more right at the end of the day. But it makes it to me, more understandable. It was the same rage that also would create the Black Panthers. It was the issue of police brutality again that led to their creation and law enforcement time. So was you know, that I love you. You know, I think the overwhelming majority of you are great goddamn citizens. You know, that I how much respect to have you for putting your lives on the line to keep the public. Safe day to day after day. And I'm guessing you also know that some of your co workers, or at least some of your professional predecessors, either are or in pastimes were sadistic racist fucks like some people crave a position of authority to serve and protect others abuse it, right? That's just I I feel like that is just I would like to think commonsense. The world has always had those meet sacs always will and Malcolm X and the Black Panthers after him warn just talking out of their asses when they complained about police brutality, and that wasn't a callback to my silly joke. Either hard to find stats specifically on incidents of police brutality in the nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties that can pair police violence towards blacks against violence of any of the race including whites. But but I did find some interesting info that at least illustrates pervasive culture of prejudice that that no job sector, including law enforcement would be immune to in nineteen twenty nine the Illinois association for criminal Justice published. The Illinois crime survey conducted between nineteen twenty seven. And nineteen twenty eight the survey sought to analyze causes of high crime rates at Chicago and Cook County, especially among criminals associate with on. But the survey also provided some unexpected data, although African Americans made up just five percent of the population of the time. They constituted thirty percent of the victims of police killings. You don't get a number like that without a lot of racism, then clearly many of the police that time were far more likely to kill you. If you're black than if you were white using two thousand fifteen data racial minorities made up about thirty seven point four percent of the general population in the US and forty six point six percent of armed and unarmed killings by police they made up sixty two point seven percent of unarmed. People killed by police. Wow, analysis of FBI data found the black people accounted for thirty one percent of police killing victims in two thousand twelve even though they make up just thirteen percent of the US population. Although the data is incomplete because it's based on voluntary report. It's from police agencies around the country. It highlights the vast disparities and how someplace were still using force as recently as two thousand twelve a two thousand eleven to two thousand fourteen study by a university of California Davis, professor found quote evidence of a significant bias in the killing of unarmed. Black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans and that the probability of being black unarmed and shot by police is roughly three point four nine zero three and a half times the probability of being white unarmed shot by police on average. I mean, again, that's a huge different. That's not like a slight statistical anomaly three and a half times. More likely two thousand ten newer governor's task force study examining police on police shootings found even black and Latino police officers face a greater risk of being killed by other police in cases of mistaken identity nine out of ten of off duty police officers killed by other officers and a US nine hundred eighty two have either been black or Latino nine hundred ten. Again, clearly when when people say don't shoot, they're far more likely to be listened to than black people two thousand thirteen two thousand fourteen Stanford study police practices and Oakland, California, where the Black Panthers would really get going as a movement found that officers were disproportionately handcuffing blacks two thousand eight hundred ninety African Americans were handcuffed, but not arrested a thirteen month period compared to only a hundred and ninety three white people. When Oakland officers pulled over a vehicle, but didn't arrest anyone seventy two white people are handcuffed compared to nearly fifteen hundred African Americans. I mean, that's an astronomical disparity in racial. Profiling is still a curling occurring now which the stats consistently show is happening happening. Got it safe. To assume the ship was way worse in the nineteen fifties and sixties so much worse in the days before social media YouTube and everyone having a video camera on their phone phone kept everybody, a little more honest. Martin Luther King junior, you know, wasn't leading marches and leading citizens because everything was fine and dandy, Malcolm. Ex- wasn't talking about why Dell's because of the consistent love and respect coming his way from white people. And then in nineteen sixty five the year before our time line was founded or we'll begin to major incidents led to the formation of the Black Panther party was the assassination of Malcolm X in February of nineteen sixty five and the other was the watts riots in August of that year on the evening of Wednesday. August eleventh nineteen sixty five twenty one year old Marquette Frye, an African American man driving his mother's nineteen fifty five Buick pulled over by California Highway Patrol motorcycle. Offer officer Lee Mikus for allege reckless driving in the watts neighborhood of Los Angeles. Adra administering a field sobriety test. Mikus or meniscus. Not whatever place fry under arrest radio for his vehicle to be impounded. Marquette's brother Ronald passenger in the vehicle walked through nearby house bringing their mother Rena price back with him to the scene of the arrest. When Riina prize arrived on the scene. She scolded Frye about drinking and driving as he recalled years later in a nine hundred eighty five interview with your Landau sentinel, and then the situation escalated quickly somebody shoved price Frye was struck price jumped on officer. And another officer pulled out a shotgun and shit got crazy backup police officers attempted to arrest fry by using physical force to subdue him. After community members reported that police had roughed up fry and kicked a pregnant woman angry mobs quickly formed as a situation tense fide growing crowds of local residents watching the exchange began yelling and throwing objects the police officers they'd had enough and a riot broke out. Police came to seem to break up the crowd several times at night, but were attacked when people threw rocks and chunks of concrete at them. A forty six square mile swath of Los Angeles was. formed into an active combat zone for six days. Nearly four thousand members of the California national guard would end up getting called into suppress rioting resulted thirty four deaths two hundred seventy two buildings being damaged burned a hundred ninety two businesses and homes looted two hundred and sixty seven businesses completely destroyed overall forty million dollars worth of damage occurred, which would be three hundred and twenty million in two thousand eighteen dollars while the riots ended the feelings of rage consuming. Many black Americans did not black youth or here, Malcolm X, or we're hearing before he was assassinated, tell them that if white American won't leave them alone. They'll just have to burn the nation to the fucking ground rebuilding, Malcolm X, adamantly believed in bearing arms. He wasn't down with Dr king's. Let's hold hands and pray about shit. He wanted to revolution April third nineteen sixty four he'd actually given a speech, which he encouraged African Americans to use the right to vote in threatened the government with an armed response. If African Americans did not receive full voting equality in the speech. He. Dated. It's either the ballot or the bullet. And that was one one of the slogans that would later be adopted by the Black Panthers in his message to grassroots speech delivered in nineteen sixty three Malcolm X explained that armed self defense. Among African Americans was not only necessary. But also morally justifiable, citing the American revolution. The French revolution Russian revolution. He claimed all involved huge losses of life and outlined a belief that revolution. That does. Not involve bloodshed is impossible. He said look at the American revolution in seventeen seventy six that revolution was for what for land. Why did they want land independence? How was it? Carried out. Bloodshed the French revolution. What was it based on the landless against the landlord? What was it four land? How did they get it? Bloodshed was no love lost was no compromise was no negotiation the rougher the Russian revolution. What was it based on land the landless against the landlord? How did they bring it about? Bloodshed. You haven't got a revolution. That doesn't involve bloodshed as long as the white, man. Sent you to Korea you bled. He sent you to Germany you bled. He saying you to the South Pacific to fight the Japanese you bled. But when it comes to senior own churches being bombed and little black girls murdered. You haven't got any blood? How are you going to be non-violent and Mississippi as violent as you were in Korea? If it is wrong to be violent defending black women and black children black babies and black men than it is wrong for America to draft us and make us violent abroad and defensive her. And if it is right for America to draft us and teach us how to be violent in defensive her than it is right for you. And me to do whatever is necessary to defend our own people right here in this country as powerful shit. A lot of military references in that talk. You know opposition to the growing conflict in Vietnam also was leading to the formation of the Black Panthers. Even before the US ever, really escalated the Vietnam conflict. Young American men were being drafted between nineteen fifty four nine hundred sixty four peacetime drafts from the end of the Korean war until the main escalation Vietnam the peacetime drafts. Inducted more than one point four million American men on average of more than one hundred twenty thousand per year. Many panther leaders would practice preach message of why should we fight and die for a nation that doesn't fight for us United Nations? Police profile beat and kill us and Asian and forces many of us to live in ghettos where jobs are scarce where the schools are children go to a broken down and dangerous where we can't make enough money to properly feed her children where children in addition to not having proper attritional educational access. Also, don't have the proper access to hope for better life. Now that the context has been laid down and backed up with some numbers numbers never gathered from wackadoo dot this trick Whitey now. Let us jump into. The Panthers with today's times of time. After after a word from another sponsor of today time like is brought to you once again by the whole air, banjo banjo. Kademi the hill air banjos academies. Latest course, banjo power plucking it to the man you can sign up today. You don't always have to grab the air guitar when you're laying down some bomb tracks to fuel a revolution rage against the machine. 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Don't miss Lisa's president's day sale. This is a new kick athletes to deal. Get fifteen percent off any mattress for a limited time at least dot com slash time. Suck when you use the promo code time suck that's L E E S. A dot com slash time. Suck promo code time. Suck Lincoln the episode description. Lisa button and the time suck up Black Panther timeline. Right now. Wrap on those boots soldier where Martin down a time summertime lives. On October twenty second nineteen sixty six Oakland community organizer Bobby Seale, an ex-con turned law student. Huey Newton form the Black Panther party for self defence. A revolutionary political organization on seals thirtieth birthday. Huey Newton was only twenty four originally there were just six members Elbert big man Howard. Huey newton. The defense minister Sherman forte, Bobby Seale, the chairman Reggie forte. And little Bobby Hutton. The treasurer the concept of a Black Panther party didn't originate in Oakland. It's just where to hold a group similar in mission statement, but different name. The just barely preceded. The Panthers was the S N C C student nonviolent coordinating committee that formed in Lowndes county Alabama and early nineteen sixty six hopefully, I'm saying Lounes, correct? That's the word. I don't feel super confident about the early organization actually called the Black Panther party started in April of nineteen sixty six the New York Black Panther party. But it was almost immediately infiltrated in place under law enforcement surveillance and dissolves completely within a year. Actually, many panther organizations formed around the country in nineteen sixty six but none really thrived like the Oakland chapter. Huey Newton was born in Monroe Louisiana, and he again, the the co founder born to an impoverished families sharecroppers his family moved Oakland, nineteen forty five when he was just three years old as teenager. He was arrested several times for criminal offenses, including gun possession vandalism and age fourteen grownup at Oakland Newton said that he was made to feel ashamed of being black years later in his autobiography revolutionary suicide. He wrote during those long years in Oakland public schools. I did not have one teacher who taught me anything relevant to my own life or experience not one instructor ever awoke in me desire to learn more or to question or to explore the worlds of literature science and history. All they did was try to rob me of the sense of my own uniqueness and worth. And in that process nearly killed my urge to inquire if only Hugh we had to the curious to turn to help him, right? Five percent. Huey graduated from Oakland technical high school in nineteen Fifty-nine despite not knowing how to read sounds like that high school was even easier than salmon river high school the place. I graduated from and Riggins Idaho would not be surprised if a few of my former classmates also graduated not knowing how to read despite being literate Newton was no dummy he taught himself how to read before attending Merritt college, and Oakland, and then got into the San Francisco school law where he met Bobby Seale years after the dissolution of the Panthers nine hundred eighty he'd receive a PHD in social philosophy from the university of California at Santa Cruz. His dissertation was titled war against the Panthers. A study of repression in America. The other co founder, Robert Bobby Seale was born in liberty Texas son of a carpenter and homemaker when he was eight his family moved Oakland. Seal went to Berkeley, High school dropped out joined the US airforce. He was dishonorably discharged a few years later for fighting with the commanding officer feisty dude leaving leaving the air force. He worked as a sheet metal mechanic for various aerospace. While studying for his high school diploma at night, another guy who's no dummy. He later say, I work in every major aircraft plant in aircraft corporation, even those with government contracts. I was top-flight sheet metal mechanic after earning. His high school diploma Seale attended Merritt community college where he studied engineering and politics until nineteen sixty two in nineteen sixty two. He I heard Malcolm X speak. He was inspired. So inspired. He joined the afro American Association. AA a group on the campus devoted to advocating black separatism and lost interest in engineering through the a group seal met Huey Newton. Every time I say he was a name, by the way, I immediately think of Huey Lewis in the news it just every single time. I say Hewitt's bright away my head. I wanna new drove one woman. Sick Bank pampa one woman crush my call. I'll make them feel three feet. He Lewis anyway, June of nineteen sixty six seal began working at the north Oakland neighborhood anti-poverty center in their summer youth program. Teaching black American history an ethic of responsibility toward other black people living in your black community. He and Newton met Bobby Hutton, one of the original six and seal would describe the Panthers as an organization that represents black people and many white radicals relate to this and understand that the Black Panther party is a righteous Revolutionary Front against us racist decadent capitalistic system. In addition to being influenced by the teachers of Malcolm X who wants to clear himself, a communist in a letter to president Truman opposing US involvement, the Korean war. The black Penn is also heavily influenced by communist and socialist teachings the FBI would declare them communist organization like Malcolm X the Panthers were influenced by the philosophies of Fidel Castro call marks and others. They believed in a link between racism and the capitalist system. Huey Newton and fucking every single Hugh Lewis. I wanna do. She Newton in particular identified as a Marxist lettuce, a Leninist Lennon being of course, the Russian revolutionary who served as the Soviet ahead of Soviet Russia from nineteen seventeen to nineteen twenty four who was heavily influenced by pootie and you put in your lungs by Shirley get to dip pootie third about all that installing suck. If you're confused despite sharing similarities with other African American cultural nationalist organizations, such as universal negro improvement association, and Malcolm Xs nation of Islam to it's the Panthers were commonly compared the Panthers immediately sought to set themselves apart from these other groups, although all of these blacks intergroup shared certain philosophical positions and tactical features the Black Panther party differed on a number of basic points, for example, whereas African American cultural, nationalist, generally, regarded all white people as oppressors the whole white devil. Talk of Malcolm X, initially, at least he Black Panther party distinguish between racist and non racist whites and allied themselves with progressive members of the latter group. You watch videos of old Black Panther demonstrations early ones, and and you typically see a fair amount of white supporters, whereas other black nationalist generally viewed all African-Americans oppressed. The Black Panther party believed that black capitalists and black leads could and typically did exploit and oppress other black people, especially the working class. The Black Panthers were also more militant than other black nationalist groups, look at pictures, and they're often dressed up like soldiers and revolution armed soldiers to really understand what with the pens. We're about you have to give familiar with their ten point program. Which was a a mission statement written by Huey Newton. Shortly before the group even officially formed on October fifteenth nineteen sixty six number one. We want freedom. We want power to determine the destiny of our black community. We believe the black people will not be free until we are able to determine our destiny. Number two. We want full employment for our people. We believe that the federal government is responsible and obligated to give every man employment or guaranteed income. We believe that if the white American businessman will not give full employment than the means of production should be taken from the businessmen and place in the community. So the people of the community can organize and employ all of its people and give a high standard of living. I do understand the desire to have more quality here, of course. But men not to communism. It's amazing. How much you will really in the communism back, then it was a different era. I mean, I communist it was new and exciting to numerous young liberals, the nineteen sixties those who have survived until today, though, I'm guessing the overwhelming majority have a very different opinion of communism now capitalism has eagles for sure. But it's. Even to provide a far better quality of life been communism. I look at the human rights violations in North Korea. Tommy's Russia, Cuba, China. It's Sarah innovative, entrepreneurial capitalism. Fuels new technology increases are centered living you don't see North Korea kicking out ladies graves computers, automobiles medical technology, etc. Now, and I don't have time in this up to go into great detail about the differences between communism and capitalism here to properly illustrate how much better capitalism is Khamis and time and time again failed to improve the human condition. Fuck commun- bojangles. Grouse every time she hears that word is this country ever shifts towards actual communism. I shit you not I will leave I will bounce out to any capitalist nation that will take me. I don't I don't mind some socialism. We do have that. Now already is called, Medicaid or Medicare social security, but communism now, I do understand that when it seems like you and your family and friends never get to be the factory owners like Evert and fuck. Yeah. Let's take you to the people, you know, very very rage against the machine. Gene. Printing tech titan tank tainting tight tank engine like a revolution going on the people like fuck five power that be fight the and then just one do the Banjul Tang Tang. Thank like Doug enough with the goddamn banjo killing the whole vibe, I'm playing the same notes as everyone else. I'm in the same spirit. Printing, Tang commoditised is how contribute to know Doug, get fucking bass guitar or shut up. What if I did it quite tempting painting? Back the ten point program. Number three, one end robbery by the capitalist of our black community. We believe that this racist government has robbed us. And now, we are demanding the overdue debt of forty acres and two mules, forty acres and two meals were promised one hundred years ago as restitution for slave labor and the mass murder of black people. We will accept payment in currency, which will be distributed to many communities to Germans are now aiding the Jews in Israel for the genocide of the Jewish people. The Germans murdered six million Jews the American racists have taken part in the slaughter of over fifty million black people therefore, we feel that this is a modest manned that we make restitution. This is something that I've heard about many many years of often heard of this forty acres and two mules promise, but I've never looked into it until this week. So glad the suck excuse to do. So did the US government promised to give forty acres and two meals to freed slaves following the civil war. The short answer is no it actually did not. But hear me out the. Notion does have historical origins when a union army led by general William to comes Sherman Marston, George in late eighteen sixty four thousands of newly freed black citizens followed along until the arrival of federal troops. They'd been slaves on plantations in that region sherman's army took the city of savannah, George just before Christmas eighteen sixty four while in savannah, Sherman attended a meeting organized in January eighteen sixty five by Edwin Stanton. President Lincoln secretary of war a number of local black ministers. Most of whom had just recently lived a slaves expressed the desires of the local black population. According to a letter journal Sherman wrote a year later secretary Stanton concluded that if given land the freed slaves could take care of themselves and as land belonging to those who rose up in rebellion against the federal government had been declared abandoned by a recent act of congress. There was land to distribute following the meeting. German drafted Sherman drafted an order a general Sherman. Which was officially designated as special field orders number fifteen in this document data. January sixteenth eighteen sixty five Sherman ordered that the abandoned rice plantations from the C to thirty miles inland would be quote reserved and set apart for the settlement of the freed slaves and the region. Okay. So land was promised to freed slaves. However, it was promised by a general in the army who did not have the authority to make that promise bite. It was not a Bill passed through congress and the Senate and then signed into law by the president according to order each family. You'll have a plot of not more than forty acres of tillable ground at the time. It was generally accepted that forty acres of land was optimal size for a family farm general Rufus Saxton was put in charge of administering the land along the Georgia coast or sherman's order stated H families. You'll have a plot of no more than forty acres of tillable ground. There was no specific mention of farm animals. No, two mules. However, general Saxton did apparently provide surplus us army mules to some of the families granted. Plant, and that's where the mule part of the story comes into play. And a lot of people heard about sherman's order because it got a lot of national press New York Times on January twenty nine hundred fifty five printed the entire text on the front page under the headline general sherman's order providing homes for the free negroes three months after Sherman issued his field orders. Number fifteen the US. Congress created the Friedman bureau for the purpose of ensuring the welfare of millions of slaves being freed by war. We talked about this bureau in the KKK suck one. Initial task of the Friedman's bureau was the management of lands confiscated from those who rebelled against the US the intent of congress led by radical Republicans was to break up the plantations and redistricting re oh my God. Redistribute the land. So so former slaves could have their own small farms, but then link was killed fuck. Everything changed. Andrew Johnson became president. And indeed sixty five and Andrew Johnson was kind of a deuce back and Johnson on may twenty eight eighteen sixty five issued a proclamation of pardon an amnesty to citizens in the south who would take an oath of allegiance as part of the pardon process lands confiscated from these people during the war would now be returned to them. So while the radical Republicans had fully intended for there to be a massive redistribution of land from former slave owners to former slaves under the reconstruction and land was actually in fact, given to many former slaves Johnson's policy came in and fucked everything up approximately forty thousand former slaves receiving received grants of land under sherman's order, and then all of that was taken away by Andrew Johnson. So while there was no law or presidential promise of forty acres in two meals. There wasn't attempt at restitution that. Was then revoked do I think of some form of restitution should be given to the descendants of slaves. Yes. But I don't know what it should look like, it's so complicated. It would be easy to say. Oh fuck. Yeah. Fucking money land. Yeah. Everything whatever's fair make it happen. But that's not how life works does the US government. Even have the ability to pay out the money that would be required. And if the descendants of slaves should get money. What about American Indians, which they get who pays for all that now tax payers, what about taxpayers whose ancestors weren't even in this country prior to eighteen sixty five is that fair the more you think about it the more complex it gets? Arthur any other groups of Americans who aren't African American also trapped and cycles, a multi generational socio economic disadvantages who else should be given some money. It's tricky, which is why should be looked into and not ignored people smarter than me to take some time to actually dig into issue every people tried and unfortunately didn't go anywhere every year between nine hundred eighty nine in two thousand seventeen a Representative John Conyers from Michigan democrat introduced the commission to study. Reparation proposals for African Americans act as the name indicates h r forty did not require reparations who just to look into it a study. It's just called for the comprehensive research into the nature and financial impact of African slaves as well as the ills inflicting on black people during the Jim crow era, only, then can remedies be considered or suggested in every year, the Bill stalled Democrats and Republicans everybody everybody shouted down every year every single year for nineteen years. It's fucking embarrassing. What about targeted education and job training programs for the descendants of slaves whose families have been trapped in cycles of poverty for over one hundred fifty years, can we at least look into that. I think shame on us for not ever actually considering it back to the ten points down. Number four. We want decent housing fit for the shelter of human beings. We believe that if white landlords will not give decent housing tour black community than the house and the land should be made into cooperatives. So that our community when government aid or with government aid can build and make decent housing for his people. Again. I don't like to. Communist angle, but you know, but decent affordable housing should absolutely be made available to everybody. We want -education. Number five. We want education for our people that exposes the true nature of this decadent American society. We want education that teaches us our history and a role in the present day society, we believe in an educational system that will give people a knowledge of self if a man does not have knowledge of himself and his position in society and the world then he has little chance to relate to anything else. Couldn't agree more. The curriculum taught to kids in school seems to be way more diverse now than it was I was kid based on what I've seen with Monroe. So I feel like things are moving in a good direction. That's helium rock. That's good. When I was a kid. I don't learn shit in school about Africa or the Middle East or really anything other than just information filtered through a Judeo-Christian kind of western European Lintz like the best way to be racist and prejudice to only look at the world through your little bubble. Right. Your little cultural and racial point of view. Traveled to enough other nations read enough foreign literature, and you will realize if you keep an open mind, we're all pretty much the same. You know, when you when you get down to the core of it. We're all involved in the same struggle. We've got different ideologies, you know, different religious and political notions. But but deep down everybody pretty much wants the same shit. Number six, we want all black men to be exempt from military service. We we believe that black people should be forced to fight in the military service to defend a racist government that does not protect us. We will not fight and kill the people of color in the world who like black people are being victimized by the white racist. Government of America. We will protect ourselves from the force and violence of the racist. Police and the racist military by whatever means necessary. There's a little Malcolm X, whatever means necessary, I understand the logic here. But maybe maybe this. Why shouldn't have been written down? This read is declaration of war. And when you're fighting a nation with too many soldiers and weapons feud ever even hope to defeat them. Maybe he's gonna keep that quiet. Maybe maybe have number six discussed internally secretly never written down. If you don't want to get a the FBI's kind of wash. I like if I ever want to start a revolution. It's going to be it's gonna be like fight club. Right. I rule of overthrowing the government. It's not fucking talk about overthrowing the government. Which was I do realize create some organizational problems number seven. We want an immediate end to police brutality and murder of black people. We believe we can end police brutality and are black community by organizing black self-defense groups that are dedicated to defending our black community from racist. Police oppression and brutality the second amendment to the constitution, the states gives a right to bear arms. We therefore believe that all black people should arm themselves for self defence. Yeah. I mean, I agree. The main point of having an armed citizenry is to prevent your government from being becoming radical and abusing you got a lot of emails after my gun control suck a while back. Let me know that despite our military having superior weaponry in armed populace still absolutely helps keep our government in check through the threat of insurgency. You know, we want number eight we want freedom for all black men held in federal state county and city prisons and jails we believe that all black people should be released from their many jails and prisons because they have not received a fair and impartial trial. Mailer change the wording on this one. How about we believe that all black and made it other cases reviewed by fair. Juries mix. Juries while many black inmates have been wrongly incarcerated not all black inmates were in jail because they were the victim of racism many were there because he broke laws. But again, I understand where this is coming from the Senate we want number nine we want all black people to be able to take any and all property from the descendants of slave owners effective now this includes physical property financial property intellectual property in sexual property. Your body's will be ours. You white devil, motherfuckers. That's that's intense. And that's that's not number nine who that'd be too much. That'd be who can't launch a revolution? When you're when you're that aggressive right at the rip number actually confused myself. I wrote that down on my notes, and then forgot I had done a lot. And I was like what the fuck. How did they think they would fucking get away with it? You can't take people's land right now. What the fuck? Oh. Oh, yeah. I made that up. I was the one who can meet up that light? Number nine said, we want all black people when brought to trial to be tried in a court by jury of their peer group or people from their black communities as defined by the constitution United States. We believe that the court followed the United States constitution. So the black people will receive fair trials to fourteenth amendment of constitution gives them in a right to be tried by his peer group appear as a person from a similar economic social religious, geographical environmental historical, racial background to do this. The court. We'll be forced to selected jury from the black community from which the black defendant came we have been and are being tried by all white juries that have no understanding of the average reasoning man of the black community. I do love that one all white juries deciding black trials especially during the racist. Nineteen sixties that's fucked. That's pretty fucked up should not have happened. And finally. Number ten. We want land bread housing education, clothing, Justice and peace win in the course of human events. It becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands, which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth separate and equal station to it's the laws of nature and nature's God. Entitle them a decent respect the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impelled him to the separation. We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights that among these are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness that securities rights governments are instituted among men deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed that would ever any form that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends. It is the right of the people to alter or abolish and institute. A new government lane is foundation on such principles as an organizers powers in such form as to them shall seem most likely to affect their safety and happiness prudence. Indeed will dick. Nate that governments long established not be changed for light and transient causes and accordingly. All experience has shown that mankind or more disposed to suffer while evils or self Rable than to right themselves by policy into forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses, and you serpents user for petitions usurpation fucking sorry that we're losing right now pursuing invariably the same object advances designed to reduce them. Under absolute despotism is their right? It is their duty to throw off such government and to provide new guard for the future security who that's mouthful us. Lots lot of info, I love it. I mean, they never had a chance to over to the US covered. But I love the spirit of this message is like, yeah. When the government turns it isn't serving the people time to overthrow the government. I love America and and loving it should include wanting to destroy if ever loses its way, right? The only reason America was started was to be able to pursue the American dream be able to work your way into owning a home, sending your kids to college chasing, a nice week time for yourself and inheritance for future generations and for Huey Bobby. People living in their neighborhoods as damn near impossible. If I was him. I would I would feel the same rage. I imagine I'll probably fuck it. Hey, the white people would wanted to burn this country to the ground, and if we ever become as racist and hateful as we used to be if we ever stop evolving towards more and more exceptions for people of different sexual preferences, skin colors, cultural affiliations religious or non religious belief systems gender identities it cetera. It would become more and more intolerant. As opposed to tolerant that I hope we do burn this motherfucker to the ground and start over. Let's not make America. Great again. It's great for everyone for the first fucking time. It's been great before. But only selectively never great for everyone. That's why I've always hated that slogan. Wasn't great for women workplace sexual harassment and date rape was basically a cultural. Norm, wasn't great for homosexuals. When they were given the Matthew Shepard treatment time and time again wasn't great for Asians when they were being run on the fucking towns and thrown into shallow graves while they built railroads and worked mines wasn't fucking great for intercity black Americans when they were. So scared of police they felt I needed to arm themselves and follow the police, and if you want to read. Politics into this rant. That's on us. It's not there for me if wanting equality for everyone who hasn't actually hurting others with their choices and part of your moral, compass offends, you somehow politically then you're no member of the cult the curious you not on team meet sack gig in nimrods butthole getting there is where apparently belong okay now back to the show back to show. Let's talk about following the police what I was referencing there after a word from today's final sponsor before we discussed other areas outside of Europe. Oh, what am I talking about? Sorry. The word from our sponsor a lost my mind for secretary went to the wrong notes. Today's time suck is brought to you by the great courses. Plus, I'm on a lifelong learners mostly Cain about the past. And the world around me and the great courses plus invaluable tool in this regard. Well, with the great courses, plus you get unlimited access to in depth, insights information, virtually any topic. 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The Black Panther party began organizing police patrols started doing what they called Kopaci open carry laws. This is fascinating to me. Open. Carry laws of the nineteen sixties allowed citizens to openly carry loaded weapons in hand, basically wherever they placed long as you pointed somebody openly threatened them with it. You can just walk right into Macy's. You can walk in with a loaded. Shotgun semi-automatic military style rifle safety off. Got to say, I'm a gun owner. And I am so glad you can't do that shit. Now. I'm so glad you just can't walk into a bar with a loaded rifle in hand carrying a firearm, directing your hands now, particularly in a fire position or combat stances known as brandishing a firearm, and that's a cry even where I live in Idaho. Which is a very permissive open carry state actually, the current law in Idaho section one section eighteen three three zero three reads exhibition or use of a deadly weapon every person who not necessary self defense in the presence of two or more persons draws or exhibits any deadly weapon, a rude angry and threatening manner or who in any manner unlawfully uses the same in any fight or quarrel is guilty of a misdemeanor misdemeanor. What? That's pretty crazy that if if I'm interpreting this correctly, I could pull out a loaded gun at Denny's here in quarterlane, I pointed to ceiling as long as that point somebody just kind of casually wave it around just yell style. Fly guitar away from our pancakes. Give my goddamn pancake coffee. Water's cold warm up McAfee water giving thanks. So we can put the gun away you fucking pancakes. Stop wave gun around as soon as I can use the gun hand to grab some tastiest butter and syrup and Charlotte in a fucking Gullit. Give them pancakes. Get angry. After all that I could be arrested and charged with a misdemeanor as mind blowing. A Mr. common is the court finds you guilty of carrying your weapon in a rude threatening manner. I didn't threaten anyone you're on. I didn't I didn't threatened shit. Nonetheless. It is most definitely rude. The wave you got around at Denny's demand. Pancakes was a to a Titian unnecessary profanity, the court hereby orders you to pay at your convenience, a two hundred dollar fine. I should do it right shot by also wasn't illegal to follow the police and carry whatever weapons they please. So the Black Panthers did exactly that they would follow the police while other officers would follow them it had enough of police brutality. And we're ready to protect their neighborhood again by any means necessary. One of their slogans taken from alcoholics if control confronted members would site laws they proved that proved they did nothing wrong with threaten to take court action. If the police violated, their constitutional rights, the Black Panthers were huge gun rights advocates. They walked around rifles and hand quite often the aggressive means which yielded the right to cure. It would actually lead to California. Now, having some of the toughest gun control laws in the nation. That all got started with the Black Panthers. How nervous does it? Would it make you if you're Oakland police officer, right? He's on patrol just. Hey, Greg that guy was doing about seventy in thirty five. Don't you think we should maybe pull him over a, hey, hey, Chad. Do you see those guys in the car? Holy shotguns, three seven sin about a block behind us. Oh, yeah. You see those guys. That's why we're going to let that go. So so so we're just gonna let everyone just get away with everything know hell, no chat soon as we see some white doodoo sounds. We are going to arrest. A fuck out of him. Further adding detention with local police do Black Panthers began casn referring to all law enforcement officers as pigs chanting things loudly while armed like the revolution has come. It's time to pick up the gun off the pigs not great for community. Police relations January nineteen sixty seven. The Black Panther party opens its first official headquarters in Oakland in a storefront publishes. The first issue of the Black Panther black community news service in February of sixty seven membership numbers. Get a bump when the Black Panthers escort, Malcolm X's, widow through the Oakland airport giving a little prestige public association between Malcolm mountains, widow in the group gives them some revolutionary legitimacy. New Black Panther recruits are required to learn how to wheeled weapon had to clean and shoot guns. In addition to understanding the right to carry firearms, and how to communicate that right to the police in California. Huey Newton the law on display when he and sealer stopped by Oakland. Police officers and early nineteen sixty seven in a vehicle filled with weapons. When questioned about the guns Newton simply replied that. The only thing he was obliged to do is give his identification name and address at the request of the officer Newton stepped out of the car rifle in tow and refuse to explain why he and other Black Panthers were carrying weapons as onlookers gathered. The police tried to disperse the crowd while Newton welcomed the crowd to gather and come over. He knew that under California law bystanders could legally view arrest as long as they didn't intrude since there were no violations for the police to charge Black Panther members with and a growing number of witnesses. They were able to leave the scene without any trouble from law enforcement, man, that's Esam balls that is some balls. And again, I love law enforcement officers. We need him to keep the general public safe. However, being a law enforcement officer doesn't give anyone the right to abuse law the best law enforcement officers public servants, not not Bitlis Bitlis. Not Bill guys you hear here. Don't be Billy. What are we just kept going to didn't clarify not Billy's don't on not Williams, not belly's not bills? So don't be. Bill, but a bumper sticker drive around town, no force officers. Not bullies abusing very loss. There's one to protect or sworn to uphold kinda talk English now. Well, Tomase that I can do a podcast April twenty fifth nineteen sixty seven the Black Panther party newspaper. Features the boldface headline why was Denzel Dowell killed to rally action over the death of young man shot by police in northern Richmond. A small impoverished all black town. Actually north Richmond about fifty miles north of Oakland in the early morning hours of April. First nineteen sixty seven in north Richmond, Denzel Dowell lay dead in the street. Police said the Dowell a twenty two year old construction worker having killed by single shotgun blast to the back and head they claimed he'd been caught burglarizing liquor store and when order to halt fill to do so, but the corner told a very different story, his body bore six different bullet holes. And there was reason to believe Dalla had been shot while surrendering with his hands raised high. His mother said I believe the police murdered my son an all white jury found the Dow's deaths was justifiable homicide after just thirty minutes of deliberation. Many people north Richmond did not agree. The newly formed Black Panthers did not agree and rush to meet with the Dow family and get more details about what happened. They started holding street corner rallies protesting his death as an act of police brutality confronting officials arguing that only by taking up arms because the black community put a stop to police brutality on our one Sunday. The police. Came knocking on MRs dowels door while Newton was there. And when she opened the door Huey later recalled a policeman pushed his way in asking questions, I grabbed my shotgun. Stepped in front of her telling him either to produce a search warrant or to leave. He stood for a minute shocked, then ran out to his car and drove off against guy, no shortage, Ables emboldened by this confrontation, Newin Newton and Seale plan to rally and a few days later in the spring nineteen sixty seven the Panthers showed up armed and in uniform and closed off the street. Black leather jackets. Black berets many wearing sunglasses all with guns and hand. I gotta say looking pretty dope is fuck Panthers. Had no shortage of swag word had spread almost four hundred people of all ages came to the rally many working class and poor black people from north Richmond showed up wanting to know how to get the measure of Justice for Denzel or den then D E N L. Denzel Dowell an intern how to protect protect themselves and their community from further police attacks people lined up both sides of the block some elderly residents. Brought lawn chairs to sit in while. They listen some of the younger generation climbed on cars. Grab some popcorn watch this show. Some police cars arrived on the scene but chose to keep their distance a contra Costa county helicopter patrol above. According to sheriff spokesman to department took no other action because the Panthers broke the laws and as required display their weapons openly neighbor showed up with their own guns. One young woman who had been sitting in her car got out held her up her m one when rival for everyone to see the Panthers pass out applications joined their party over three hundred people fill them out according to FBI informant. Earl Anthony he had never seen black men. Command. The respect of the people the way that Huey Newton and Bobby Seale did on that day craze at the FBI was already watching the FBI is going to become a very big part of the story here soon this rally in the. Actions of the Panthers in general over the past few months scaring, the shit out of California government following the rally Don Mulford for quickly drafty Mulford act, a Bill that would prohibit the carrying of loaded firearms in public when Newton seal and other Panthers caught wind of this new legislation being proposed. They quickly organized a protest. That's my favorite part of the story on may second nineteen sixty seven panther chairman. Bobby Seale, led a group of thirty fully armed Black Panthers to the California state capital and Sacramento, then governor Ronald Reagan happened to be there. He was there that day, given a given us speech. The news crews that were covering him quickly shifted to interviewing and filming the newly-arrived Panthers before entering the capitol building. Bobby Seale read a written statement on the capital steps right in front of governor. Reagan saying the American people in general and the black people in particular must take careful note of the racist, California legislature aimed at keeping the black people disarmed and powerless seal and five others end up getting arrested in the protests, but not for gun charges. The. Group pled guilty to misdemeanor charges of disrupting legislation. It isn't Sanders. Pictures of them just inside the capitol and just right in front just holding openly holding shotguns, and assault rifles. The following months in June and July of nineteen sixty-seven there. There were massive race riots and cities like Cleveland Newark, Chicago and Detroit the city of Newark, New Jersey erupted in violence as black residents battled police following the beating of a black taxi driver, leaving twenty six people dead. Twenty six the nineteen sixty seven Detroit rides from the most violent and destructive riots and US history by the time the bloodshed burning and looting ended after five days. Forty three people were dead three hundred and forty two injured nearly fourteen hundred buildings burned some seven thousand national guard in US army troops have been called into service. It all started that one with the rate of an illegal nightclub on twelfth street. Twelve street in Detroit hotspot of intercity, nightlife, both legal and illegal at the corner twelve th street and Claremont a man named William Scott operated. A blind pig which was an illegal after hours club might be twelve th street in Clermont actually on weekends out of the office of the United community league for civil actions of rights group of the police vice squad often. Rated establishments like that on twelve th street and at three thirty five AM on Sunday morning, July twenty three they moved against Scott's club on that warm, humid nights, Scott was hosting a party for several veterans, including two servicemen recently returned from Vietnam and the bar's patrons were reluctant to leave the air conditioned club out in the street. A crowd began to gather as police waited for vehicles to take eighty five patrons away an hour pass before the last person was taken away by that time two hundred onlookers headline the street, and then a bottle crashed into the street, the remaining police ignored it. But then more bottles were thrown included one through the window patrol car. The police fled is a small riot than erupted within an hour. Thousands of people at spilled on the street from nearby buildings looting began on twelfth street and clothes shops and businesses were ransacked around six thirty AM the first fire broke out and soon much of the street was ablaze by mid morning every policemen and firemen in all of Detroit was called to duty on twelfth street. Officers fought to control the unruly mob firemen were tacked as they tried to battle the flames things just got worse from there. Yeah. Phenomenon called white flight white middle-class city residents. Fleeing urban centers live in the suburbs in the forties and fifties and sixties reduce tax base in formerly prosperous downtown neighborhoods creating urban blight poverty, racial discord for the resins who remained who were largely impoverished racial minorities of poor urban underserviced, black neighborhoods police almost entirely by why white law enforcement didn't make good mixed didn't make for a good nonviolent mix and then in late July of sixty seven the state capital demonstration in may in California that given the Panthers tremendous amount of national exposure increased membership levels, and ultimately didn't stop the Bill from passing both the state assembly and Senate I run if he that Bill got the full support of the NRA in addition to repealing open carry laws in California Mulford made it illegal to take firearms into the capital on July twenty eight the Bill was signed into law by governor Reagan later commented that he saw no reason why on the street today. A citizen should be carrying loaded weapons. The Panthers can no longer now openly and. Legally carry loaded weapons while they follow police. So this puts a serious dent in the revolution. On October twenty eighth nineteen sixty seven the Oakland chapter of the Black Panther movement. It's another snag when Panter minister of defense. Huey Newton co-founder involved in a shootout with Oakland police after a traffic stop officer. John fray is killed Newton is shot in the abdomen tracked. When Oakland hospital. He's arrested and charged with first degree murder new leader step into to keep the movement going while Newton is incarcerated panther member. Eldridge cleaver who joined the party after being released from prison on December. Second began the movement to free. Huey a struggle. The Panthers would devote considerable amount of attention to in the coming years while the party would spread his roots further into the political spectrum forming coalitions with various other revolutionary parties opinions on Eldridge cleaver. He's interesting character in the story, they wildly when you watch interviews of former Black Panthers, essentially, most seemed to think that he was either a visionary genius or a complete fucking maniac or both. Cleaver was attracted to the Black Panthers. Because of their focus on armed struggle. Cleveland was an inmate of correctional institutions in California almost constantly from junior high school days until nine hundred sixty six for crimes ranging from position marijuana to rape to assault than ten to murder while in prison. He also became a fan and follower of the teachings of Malcolm, X and Karl Marx. He also wrote essays that will be collected into soul on ice, the essays cleaver documented, his the essays in the soul on ice book documented clear evolution into a radical black liberationist and became a very highly informational. Influential highly influential book in the black power movement. The book was and remains fairly controversial the central premise of the of the book is the is the trouble of identification as a black soul, which has been colonized by impressive white society that projects brief narrow vision of life as a terminal truth in the book cleaver admitted to raping black girls as a practice run before seeking white. Women is prey but claims that in jail he'd come to consider those acts as inhuman. Well, that's good Jesus. Not sure you could earn that same forgiveness and be part of any kind of social Justice movement today to that. Now, I'm sorry. Oh, well, did did you actually just say that you raped black women as a practice run to learn how to more effectively rape white women. Did you just say that? Okay. You did. Okay. I thought I heard fucking crazy. Duct your participation revolution is over now. Effectively. Now, you can join possibly the rapist who promised not to rape anymore revolution. If that is a thing along with ten other books such as slaughterhouse five by Kurt Vonnegut black boy by Richard Wright. The naked ape by Desmond Morris soul on ice would be part of a nineteen eighty two supreme court case when a Long Island New York school district sites remove these books from his libraries due to them being anti-american, anti-christian anti-semitic and just plain filthy. The supreme court ended up with the split ruling in this case. I. Love the legal language of just plain filthy. I like how that was added there. And why would you last these books removed from your school, libraries, they're just playing filthier honor defined filthy, then nastiest fuck your outta there. Like the like vomiting shits thrown in the same bucket swelled around dumped on top of some rotten meat then eaten then vomited and shit back into the same bucket for someone else to take their crack at it there, filthy your oughta, they're just plain Fethi. Elders was supportive of taking what you felt was yours to any means necessary. Again, that by any means necessary one of his coach was we shall have our manhood. Now, we shall have it or the earth will be leveled by our attempts to gain it. That's kind of a rape quote my read into that now. But it seems kinda Rabi for rapist to be talking about taking mandate. And if you'll excuse me, I'm going to keep this recording. I have to take a sip water. This is the longest in uninterrupted chunk between segments. I think I've ever done on time suck. Wow. Throat getting dry. One black power rally Eldridge said about then California governor Ronald Reagan. And I quote, this is one of the things that made simple people like I might be a little mental unstable. He said he's a punk Assissi and a coward. Now challenge him to dual challenge him to a duel to the death until he says uncle Eldredge, and I give him a choice of weapons he could use a gun a knife a baseball bat or Marsh metal all beat him to death with Marsh metal. That's how I feel about him. Not surprisingly Reagan, not a huge Eldredge fan around this time when cleaver taught a class at UC Berkeley a few years later when Reagan heard about it. He said if Eldridge cleaver is allowed to teach our children, they may come home one night and slower throats, ironically, a little footnote to the story, ironically Eldredge would then later become super conservative and openly endorse Reagan when Reagan ran for president elderly would also later become a Mormon a religion that is pretty conservative and and pretty white. I gotta say it feels like maybe one of the white religions, I guess people can change another new member of the party to take leadership position wants Newton was behind bars was Stokely Carmichael, the former chairman chairman of that Alabama student nonviolent coordinating committee and a nationally known proponent of black power. He becomes the party's prime minister in February nineteen sixty eight and Stokely was arguably far less rapes and Eldridge and by less. I mean, not at all nothing. I can find their way more racist pretty racist. He was Adam. Against allowing Weiss into the black liberation movement at any level. He felt that whites could not relate to the black experience do agree with and that they would have an intimidating effect on blacks, which I can't disagree with since. I'm not black. However, you've just also when you do this given a huge middle finger to any white person who wants to help you who wants your move into exceed. And since there were about nine times as many white people in America as there were black people that time you've put a big fucking nail in your coffin. Right. You've you've put a huge down the coffin of your own movement by doing that at so many points in the suck. I feel so much empathy as much as why dude can for this movement. Like, it must have been so nice for for young black children to see such strong black role models who are not afraid of standing up to those who oppress them for so many generations. But when you go full us versus them and tally when all white people become the problem, you lose just like when racist label all black people, the proper all Mexicans is the problem. That's not how. Humanity works. You can't function that way in you know, for any long jeopardy. Ten kind of real movements not not anymore. Thank God, not all white people were in favor of slavery. Even even during the height of slavery. I think about this this logic, this type of logic in today's polarized society. Like whenever somebody has an attitude of fuck Republicans or fuck Democrats, or when they think that all conservatives are this way or all liberals that way, they're always wrong. Yeah. Just like as bad lazy writing to make a villain in a movie like all evil cartoonish -ly, you know, just a caricature of evil. It's bad. Lazy thinking to believe that you know, certain real people are all bad or that? They're all part of the problem, unless you're talking about defining them by a certain behavior that makes it the the defines the group that they belong to like all convicted pedophile 's are bad babysitters. That's definitely true defa drew all convicted pedophile cz are a terrible babysitting. I opposition. I that's got to be true. But anyway, you you say on April fourth nineteen sixty eight civil rights leader, Reverend Dr Martin Luther June Jesus Christ. Somebody fucking words start over on April fourth nine hundred sixty eight civil rights leader that I do understand why NPR and those kind of places where they talk that way. It's so much easier to say words, right? If you like on April fourth nineteen sixty eight civil rights leader, Reverend Dr Martin Luther. King junior is assassinated in Memphis, Tennessee. I mean, I could my pronunciation, you know, correct percentage would go way up if I lost all passion for what I was saying and just spoke in a in a manner that makes twenty to forty percent of the population wanna kill themselves unable for days. Nineties or is there ever known run? Don't see that. Hopefully, Audubon guess anyway, the real Reverend doctor. He's assassinated Memphis years later. The king family would hire attorney. William Francis pepper to investigate king shooting, and he would present evidence from seventy witnesses and four thousand pages of transcripts and pepper alleged in two thousand three book an act of state that the evidence implicated the FBI CIA army and Memphis police department and organized crime in the murder of king while the government was improving in court to be involved. There remains widespread speculation that they helped kill king, or at least allowed it to happen and many Panthers at the time did think the law enforcement was involved and they were understandably fucking angry. They decided to strike back by organizing attack on Oakland. Police officers of very much an eye for an I'm tally here. So two days later after king's assassination, April six nine hundred sixty eight seventeen year old panther treasurer. Bobby Hutton's killed by police during a violent confrontation west Oakland Panthers. Maintain that Hutton was shot. While. Unarmed and with his arms raised to surrender on April. Six Cleveland, fourteen other Panthers lead an ambush of Oakland police officers during which two officers were wounded Cleveland was wounded during the ambush seventeen year old again, you know, Black Panther member. Bobby Hutton killed. A Panthers were armed with m sixteen rifles and shotguns years later in one thousand nine hundred although the the package would say the time like, you know, he was unarmed was years later nine hundred ninety cleaver when Eldridge cleaver returned to the country after fleeing in the wake of this gun battle charges, and it came out of this battle against him. He would stay that. He had led the panta group on a deliberate ambush of the police officers and provoke the shootout he also at this time, just credited the Black Panthers, stating we need polices heroes. Now. Some speculated his admission could have been pay off to the Alameda County Justice system who judge had just days earlier, let Eldridge cleaver escape prison time cleaver will be sentenced to community service after getting charged with three counts with salt against three Oakland police officers so disputing stories about who is. Vault here police or the Panthers a documentary on Huey Newton. A Huey Newton story claims that Bobby Hutton was shot more than twelve times after he had already surrendered and stripped down to his underwear to prove he was not armed so very conflicting stories air on September eighth. Nine hundred sixty eight jury acquits Newton of his murder charge, but convicts him voluntary manslaughter, and this was for that earlier different police. Shootout charge Newton. I sense the two to fifteen years and then free Huey demonstrations. Intensify around the nation two days later on September tenth rifle. Shots are fired into Black Panther national headquarters in Oakland poster in the front window of Newton holding a gun while seated in an African wicker chair is apparently the target two and talks and toxic hated off-duty. Oakland police officers are blamed for the incident and dismissed from the police force. So the tension between the Bayard place in the Panthers, obviously is continuing through the fall of nineteen sixty eight activism builds around the notion that Newton is a political prisoner the free. Huey campaign leads to the opening of Black Panther chat for more. A twenty dollars city. So, you know, positive part of his incarceration is that. It's building the movements. More and more people are joining because of. You know, because of you know, a public awareness of the Black Panthers due to their free. Huey demonstrations. An after the after these other chapters were opened the free breakfast for children program is launched in Saint Augustine's Piscopo church Oakland this to me that this free breakfast for children program. Maybe the coolest accomplishment of the Black Panthers. As far as out of just like one, individual accomplishment, inspired by contemporary research about how important the role of good breakfast was in kids ability to learn basically, you can't pay attention class if you're super hungry. The Panthers began to cook and serve food to the poor inner city youth of the Oakland area the program became so popular by the end of the year that the Panthers set up kitchens in cities across US feeding over ten thousand kids every day before they went to school in November of nineteen sixty eight young Fred Hampton joins the movement. Fred Hampton, my favorite panther. You're gonna find out why here soon like if the Panthers were made into action figures, I would have wanted to Fred Hampton action figure and the Fred hands and figure it would probably have to occasionally. Take the Eldridge cleaver action figures side and just whisper something like, you know, you know, the rape super felt Albright. Like, you, you know, wrong a good for you for admitting it, but it cannot happen again. It should have never happened. I don't know why you're still even here. But if it happens again, I gotta put you down. I gotta put you down. Anyway, Hampton had just turned twenty eight twenty years old. Yes. Sorry, just twenty when he joined the movement. He was a gifted student and a gifted athlete dreamed of someday playing center field for the Yankees. He graduated high school and may will annoy suburbs. Chicago with honors nineteen sixty six he was enrolled in TRITON junior college in nearby river grove Illinois studied, pre law he and fellowship cog area. Panthers. Follow police watching for brutality using Hampton knowledge of the loss of defense. He also became active in the end up Lacey pe-, he led five hundred members in a youth council there. He was handsome strong charismatic. You watch some videos this guy and inconceiva- right away. He was a natural leader within a year. And joining a joining the Panthers. Was able to broker a peace treaty between some of Chicago's most powerful violence regains can convincing them that continuing to kill each other with just keep them in their families entrenched in a never ending cycle of poverty in incarceration, even more impressive. He forged an alliance between Black Panthers and the young patriots organization and the young lords. This is crazy me the young patriots organization. The white peo- they were based in a in a poor uptown neighborhood, Chicago known as the hillbilly Harlem an area populated by displaced. White southerners many y peel members were openly racist flaunting controversial symbols associated with southern pride. But like lax Latinos, the white young pages in their families experience discrimination Chicago in their case because they were poor and from the south the young Lord started off as a Puerto Rican turf gang and Chicago nineteen sixty had just recently evolved into a civil and human rights movement kind of Puerto Rican equivalent to the Black Panthers. They were opening chapters around the nation as well. And they were headquartered in Chicago in the Hampton got these two groups to align with the Black Panthers into what he called the rainbow coalition a term, another civil rights leader, the Reverend Jesse Jackson later, adopt Hampton, convinced eve groups and members of others that the real problem in America was not the oppression of one particular minority group, but the oppression of the working class in general. And that the only chance they had to change the system and bring about more economic equality was if they fought together instead of fighting one another dude how slick with this guy in the nineteen sixties as a black man he got racist backwoods hillbillies to join his cause, right? I picture him approaching them like one of the rallies like approaching one of the young patriots one of the realize what are you guys stand for? Why why why why power not dig a brother fine for your own? Why what what you you like it? You like what you like why power hell? Why power slow at block power? There's a different shade of the same struggle. Are are you are you fucking with me? Why power? Why that? Well. That's what I say. I say, hey, you, you know, you know, you're black fellow right? Why power? Now, you say black power JETRO come on come on. I say why power you say a black power fuck. Yeah. Feels good to JETRO. Yeah. I do. I do. I LA enjoyed it. But our black power. Bradfo. Yeah. Buying middling mailing doing. Our thing thing lingering bar thing. Lingering thing Dr. I don't do. It has to. Just had seen just trying to build at my head. I just love the image. If that were to happen of red Hampton convincing kind of a twitchy kind of hillbilly raced. Why do I get out of here? I don't lock it. Come on come on, man. Just just try save say one time disabled power now, I say that no town, we're all we're all part of the same stroke. You can do. Black power. How I like it does sound power. Hampton quickly rose to becoming the leader of Chicago chat with the Panthers teaching free political education classes every morning six AM organizing a free. I don't know why that's the part. That impressed me. The most look it was pretty cool that he taught political education classes for free to people. But he did it six. Here's what I'm saying. He got up early hued organized free breakfast programs for school children so much and this is twenty years old by mid nineteen sixty nine he become one of the nationally known faces the movement part of what led for it to join the movement was the arrest of who'd become known as the Chicago eight. You'll also see it called the Chicago Seven because the person we're gonna talk about the eighth member was actually kind of cleared of charges and drove down to seven. But anyway, I think a movie might be done the next year. So about the Chicago Seven related to the Chicago eight Chicago eight arrested nineteen hundred Asia Kogyo, it was around the revolved around their arrested, the nineteen sixty eight democratic national convention was held in Chicago and late August to select that party's candidates for the November. Nineteen sixty eight presidential election prior to during the convention, which took place at the international amphitheatre, Chicago southside, rallies demonstration marches and attempted marches took place in the streets and lakefront parks about five miles from the convention site. And these activities were primarily in protest of president Johnson's policies for Vietnam. Antiwar groups had petitioned the city Chicago for permits to March five miles from the central business district to within sight of the convention site to hold a number of rallies near the convention to camp in Lincoln park. And to be another lakefront parks the city tonight all the permits except for one afternoon rally the old band shell to south end of grant park. The city also enforced in eleven pm curfew Lincoln park confrontation with protesters and suit as a police enforce a curfew stopped attempts to March to the international amphitheatre and cleared crowds from the streets the grant park rally on Wednesday. August twenty eighth nineteen sixty eight was attended by about fifteen thousand protesters other nearby activities involved hundreds or thousands of protesters. After the large rally outside of the venue several thousand protesters attempted to March to the international amphitheatre, but were stopped in front of the Conrad Hilton hotel where the presidential candidates and their campaigns were headquartered police work to push the protesters out of the street using tear-gas. Verbal and physical confrontation hitting people with clubs protestors retaliate by throwing rocks and bottles, damaging private commercial property. The police made scores of arrests the televised television networks broadcast footage of these violent clashes powerful images. You know, people being beaten by police people attacked the police, you know, they're cutting away footage from presidential candidates while they're doing this over the course of five days and nights, the police made numerous arrests in addition using tear gas Mace batons on the marchers. Yeah. Hundreds of police officers and protesters were injured dozens of journalists covering the actions were also club by police or had cameras smashed or had film confiscated in the aftermath of what was characterized as a police riot by the US national commission on the causes and prevention of violence, a federal grand jury indited, eight demonstrators, eight police officers and. One of the eight demonstrators. Indicted was Black Panther co founder Bobby Seale charged with conspiracy, and inciting a riot and young Fred Hampton. He's seen all this go down in his in his city after being arrested. Bobby said to be a revolutionary is to be an enemy of the state to be arrested for the struggle is to be a political prisoner the evidence, you can see it was very slim. He was a last minute replacement for elders cleaver have been in Chicago for only two days at the convention during the trial, one of seals many protests, one of his many vocal protests, led judge Julius Hoffman to have him bound and gagged in court, and the image of this gagged black man, you know, bound in court became a huge rallying point for the black liberation movement. I mean, the court it made him look like he was a slave. He was like he was treated like an animal undefended defender on November fifth nineteen sixty nine Bobby Seale was removed from the the case, but was sentenced to four years in prison for sixteen counts of contempt in court, three months for each Alvis pr-. Fucked up you get four years in prison because you're angry about being charged with some bullshit. You didn't do and you get angry about it in court. And then you get prison time because that I'm always surprised more judges and prosecutors aren't murdered not getting enough finish should be not advocating their death. But if I was on trial for some bullshit, I didn't do and the judge went like extra hard on me. And then I was sentenced to a long-term behind bars. When I was for sure innocent man, it would be hard not to plot to death of that judge or prosecutor or even certain jury members while his rotten imprison not saying it'd be right to kill judge understand if a judge or prosecutor ever railroads me into a guilty verdict for something. I didn't do I am probably gonna try and kill you. I just want to put that out there for anybody listening so late nine hundred sixty nine or late next night. She does not go well for Bobby Seale gets even worse for Fred Hampton, young star of the movie. This is the saddest part for me today's episode the qualities that made Hampton young Hampton a rising star in the panther movement. Also made him a huge target for the FBI. I cannot emphasize enough how much the FBI fucking hated the Black Panthers so much J. Edgar Hoover would have loved to personally execute with his bare hands every member of the Black Panthers for for treason in front of a live televised audience. He never said that that is definitely the feeling you get when you look into this. Check this out a few years after all this goes on the fuse after Chicago eight and what's going to happen to Fred Hampton here in March of nineteen seventy-one. A group of anonymous activists calling themselves citizens commission to investigate the FBI broke into a small FBI office in Pennsylvania, stole more than one thousand FBI documents the ended up exposing the FBI's co Intel pro program a secret counterintelligence program created to as the LA times would later put it investigate and disrupt dissident political groups in the US, according to these documents Hoover had directed excuse me, all of the bureaus offices to expose disrupt. Direct discredit and otherwise neutralize African American organizations and leaders including the southern Christian leadership conference. The student nonviolent coordinating committee, the nation of Islam Martin Luther King Stokely Carmichael the Black Panthers and more a written goal of the FBI counter. Intel program was to prevent this is quote to prevent the rise of a black messiah who could unify the movement. They also wanted to prevent the appeal of the Black Panther party to black youth. This is a stated written goal of the FBI. Okay. So now, we know that we know what the FBI's agenda is now back to nineteen sixty nine Chicago, specifically, December third Hampton taught a political education. Course that evening now teach them in the morning guys doing good shit all the time. He taught political education course, at a local church, which was attended by most members of the local Panthers afterwards. As was typical. Several Panthers went to the Monroe street apartment to spend the night, including Hampton's bodyguard, William O'Neil who later admitted to being an FBI informant who that had been sent into infiltrate Hamptons chapter and get close to Hampton in exchange for dropping some criminal charges against O'neil O'neil made dinner for everyone that night and slipped barbituates into Hamptons and into Hansen's drink to sedate him for planned FBI Ray later that evening O'neil left this point in at about one thirty A in December fourth Hampton fell asleep. Mid sentence. Talking to his mother on the telephone although him to not known to take drugs Cook County. Chemist Elaine Berman, give me Eleanor Burman would report that she ran two separate tests, which each showed evidence barbiturates, the Hamptons blood an B FBI chemists would later fail to find similar traces. But Berman stood by her findings of. Of course, the FBI didn't find shit, those murdering Hoover puppet, FOX would later be found guilty by US court of legally conspiring to destroy the Panthers and also plan. The very raid would take Hamptons young life that night while the FBI planned the raid. They did not take part in it at four AM a heavily armed cook. County. Police force arrived at the site divided into two teams eight in the front of the building six in the rear at four forty five. AM they stormed into the apartment. Mark Clark sitting in the front room of the apartment with the shotgun in his lap was on security duty. He was shot in the chest died instantly, a single round was fired from his gun caused by reflexive desk. Convulsion after the rating team a shot him. That is the only shot. The Panthers would fire that night automatic gunfire. Was converged the head of the south bedroom or Hampton slept unable to awaken as a result of the barbiturates. He was lying on a mattress in a bedroom with his fiance who was nine months pregnant with their child to officers found him wounded in the shoulder and fellow Black Panther Harold bell reported that he heard the following. Change. That's Fred Hampton is. He dead bring him out. He's barely live. He'll make it two. More shots were then heard which were later found to have been fired point blank at Hamptons head. He was executed. According to Johnson one officer. Then said he's as good as dead now. No, he's good and dead. Now the seven Panzer survived. The raid were indicted by grand jury on charges of attempted murder, armed violence and various other weapons charges. These charges were subsequently dropped because they were bullshit trumped up charges during the trial Chicago police department claimed that the Panthers with the first to fire shots. However, a later investigation found that the Chicago police fired between ninety and ninety nine shots while the Panthers had fired one time a decade later in April nineteen seventy nine in the US. Seventh circuit court of appeals found the FBI and his government lawyers had obstructed Justice by suppressing the Black Panther party files. And concluded that there was substantial evidence to support the conclusion that the F B I defendants in planning and executing. This raid did participate in a conspiracy designed to subvert and eliminate the Black Panther party in its members thereby suppressing vital radical black political organization the court further found there to be convincing evidence that these defendants also participated in. Separate post raid conspiracy to conceal the true. Character of their pre raid and raid activities to harass the survivors of the raid and to frustrate any legal redress that the survivors might seek Hamptons family and the surviving. Members of the raid did finally get awarded one point eight five million dollars in a settlement from Cook County nine hundred eighty two believed to be the largest civil settlement ever awarded in a civil rights case up to that point given that money because of what happened that night, man. The government did not like the Black Panther movement, literally assassinate its most prominent most charismatic young leader is beyond fucked up. I mean lug love his countryman great country. But anybody who's like our government doesn't do any get the fuck outta here. They've done all kinds of shady shit. And certain members of our government are undoubtably doing shady shit right now right known. Everyone's like, nobody was good. No knows that power corrupts man there. There are some very. Motherfuckers. We just don't know exactly who they are doing very corrupt shit. Will learn like thirty years later right now a month after Fred Hampton's government sanctioned and administered execution a different Black Panther leader is freed co founder Huey Newton is released on fifty thousand dollars bail, pending a retrial after serving thirty three months in prison for the death of officer fray, the free. Huey movement has one Huey Newton has been freed. He moves into a top floor penthouse apartment at twelve hundred lakeshore avenue and Oakland after two retrials the charges against him dropped Newton's back. He's in charge, but his return to leadership fragments the movement in January nineteen seventy-one Newton expels. Geronimo Pratt who since nineteen seventy have been in jail facing a pending murder charge. Toronto is a high ranking party member who served to tourism Vietnam heavily decorated. Military if Pratt's name sounds familiar, it's because it showed up in the two Bach and biggie suck suck seventy six. Geronimo was to pox Coors. Godfather Newton also expels two of the New York twenty one Twenty-one panther members who have been arrested for a bombing plot. One of those members was a Phoenix occur to pox mother that trial eventually collapsed all twenty one. We're quit of all charges. Fucking FBI man, dedicated to destroying the Black Panther party through continued indictments and incarceration of its members and leaders trumped up. Indictments bullshit, incarceration Newton. Also expelled his own secretary. Who flees the country kicks her out of the movement Newton and various other Panthers believed the Black Panthers should participate in local government and social services while others thought the Black Panther party should be in constant conflict with police, and basically Newton starts to kick out. Everyone who doesn't agree with his side of what they should focus on. Now. Eldridge cleaver guy we talked about or he's on the side of fighting twenty four seven three hundred sixty five days. Here and he gets kicked out to even though he's basically already out cleaver hadn't really been involved. In a consistent meaningful way with a movement outside of rhetoric since nineteen sixty eight when he fled to Cuba to avoid trial for an attempted murder charge that sprang from that involvement his involvement in that ambush on Oakland police officers. We talked about already there was holding. The death. Bobby Hutton after a brief stay in Cuba, hanging out with Fidel Castro. Elders had bounce to Algiers when Castro learned that the CIA had been keeping tabs on Eldridge. And since the CIA wanted Castro dead castle wanted no part of anyone who's also in their crosshairs elders setup. An international panther office in ALgeria a nation. Friendly to black revolutionaries that would not extradite them. The United States Elettra. It's also took a few trips North Korea after befriend befriending Kim Jong Il, the Black Panther party publications actually began to reprint excerpts from king ill soums writings man, talk about talking about going from the frying pan into fire. Why would you fuck it align yourself with North Korea American? General was not a friend of the black man in the nineteen sixties. And I know in some ways is still isn't in certain factions, but holy shit. North Korea wasn't North Korea wasn't and isn't a friend to any human being on earth whose name is in Kim Il soon, Kim Jong Il or Kim Jong Hoon. May twenty fifth nineteen seventy-one co founder, Bobby Seale. Get some good news. He has his murder conspiracy case against him dismissed, New Haven, Connecticut. That was following the suspension of contempt of court convictions in Chicago, he's freed after twenty one months in jail this series of charges against these guys most of which could drop because they were just they were just trying to incarcerate them to just gadgets to gut the movement a while serving his four-year cents for those contempt of court convictions earlier, the ones that you know, where he was fucking bound and gagged in court seal had been put on trial again in nineteen seventy in the New Haven Black Panther trials. Several officers of the Panthers organization had murdered a fellow panther. Alex Rakkli who allegedly confessed under torture to being a police informant. The organizations getting paranoid because her constantly being infiltrated the leader of the murder plan leader, George SAM's, junior turn states. Evidence testified seal who visited New Haven only hours before the murder was the one to order him to kill rack Rakkli. The trials were accompanied by a large protests at the trial and New Haven. The jury was unable to reach a verdict ninety seventy one is a terrible year overall for the Panthers. Hundreds of party members quit the Black Panther party around the nation alarmed by both the split between Huey Newton and. In other members and the violence against its own members. You know by different factions brought to light most notably. By Bobby seals case. It will be discovered later that the F B I had sent Newton n Eldridge and other Black Panther members of various bogus letters just manipulated him. Stoking anger between the two and they had different, you know, plants inch group you'd be like fucking elders man is he didn't say some crazy shit this guy over here. He wants you fucking dead. Like, they just put people in organizations to constantly, you know, foster an environment of paranoia and just get the the members to kill each other nineteen seventy-one the FBI actually dedicated a budget of seven point four million dollars to pay informers to harass and intimidate the Panthers that is more than twice the amount. They budgeted for informers organized crime that year between nineteen sixty nine nine hundred seventy at least four Panthers were shot to death by other Panthers because of feuds created and perpetuated by FBI informants in early nineteen seventy-two Newton shuts down. Ares. Black Panther chapters around the country due to infighting created because of FBI disinformation Hoover eventually calls. The F B I off of the Panthers satisfied that they will continue to tear each other apart. We know that based on statements and leaked FBI documents. The underground remnants of the Los Angeles Black Panthers chapter eventually reemerge as the crypts a powerful street grey street, gang that advocated social reform before it got into crime. Did you know that Crips may stand for community resources for independent people? I didn't either before the suck. I swear to got this one. This is one of my weird, lice bloods and Crips suck. Anyone? I think fast any can are spaces please vote that up and full disclosure. Well, sung gang historians. Do point to the crypts coming out of the Black Panther party. Others say that the word crip evolved out of the word. Crib. A word gang founders, Tuckey Williams and Raymond Washington possible use to describe various factions at their gangs, all look further to the etymology of the word cryp, if we hopefully sucked at topic someday. Okay. So the black community survival conference is held at the Oakland civic auditorium on March twenty ninth nineteen seventy-two this one of the last kind of big cool things the are able to pull off ten thousand bags of groceries or given away with canned goods and the bottom package goods in the middle and a four pound chicken and every back pretty cool June twenty-fourth nineteen seventy-two Bobby Seale announces his candidacy for mayor of Oakland panther. Elaine Brown announces her candidacy for city council both loose. Elaine. Brown does remain. Social activist living in Oakland to this day. This hurts the party, you know, it's just did. They just decide that they're not gaining momentum. There. They're losing power now in early nineteen seventy four leader. Huey Newton embarks on a major Black Panther party purge expelling co founder, Bobby Seale and bobby's younger brother, John. He kicks out numerous other top party leaders. Dozens of other Panthers loyal to seal resign or desert in August of nineteen seventy four Newton allegedly murders Kathleen Smith teenage prostitute. And is also charged with pistol-whipping his Taylor. Preston Callans weird side and all that kind of supposedly if he did kill them. He killed him. Because he was getting pretty heavy drugs around this point and was kind of had a hair trigger temper and supposedly both just just referred to him his baby, which was a nickname. He had as a kid that he fucking hated. Newton reportedly confides to friends at Smith is his first nonpolitical murder. He flees to Cuba. Elaine Brown takes over leadership in his absence for all at ten purposes. The movements dead at this point barely hanging on Oakland, really only reviving through a few soc. Programs most notably the Oakland community school which had opened in nineteen Seventy-three to educate the children of Panthers had about one hundred fifty kids attending it in December of nineteen seventy four panther accountant, Betty Betty fan patter is murdered after threatening to disclose irregularities in the party's finances. Van patter goes missing on December twelve th nine hundred seventy four and her severely beaten. Corpses. Found on a San Francisco Bay beach Newton later allegedly confesses to friends that he ordered van Patten's murder and van Patten had been tortured and raped before being killed in one thousand nine hundred seventy seven Newton returns from Cuba to face murder charges, but not before meeting people's temple leader. Former suck subject Jonestown co-leader Jim Jones in Havana where does that remember Jimmy Johns? Strange strange Jerry Jones Jimmy was a diehard communist by nineteen seventy seven and a former major figure in the bay area civil rights movement where they had met previously. What crazy connection Newton actually spoke to temple members in Jonestown via telephone expressing support for Jim Jones, and what he was. Doing guyana? Anyone familiar with Jonestown massacre knows that the communist experiment. Jim created did not work out too. Well, in the end Newton's cousin Stanley Clayton was one of the few residents of Jonestown to escape the area before the nineteen Seventy-eight mass murder of nine hundred roughly roughly temple members by Jones in his fanatics through four suicide for through drinking that flavor. Eight in October nineteen seventy seven three Black Panthers attempt to assassinate crystal gray, a key prosecution witness in Newton's upcoming trial who've been present the day of Kathleen Smith murder the organization wants based in the liberation of black Americans has now devolved into little more than a gang unbeknownst to the Salem. They attack the wrong house and the occupant returned fire during the shootout one of the Panthers. Louis Johnson was killed the other two assailants escaped during Newton's trial for salting press and Callans calendar. Changes testimony several times eventually told the jury he didn't know who assaulted him. That's suspicious. Newton was acquitted of the assault and September nineteen seventy eight. He was convicted of. Firearms possession after the assassination attempt on crystal gray, she declined to testify against Newton. So after two trials and two deadlocked. Juries the prosecution decided not to retry Newton for Smith's murder, then in nineteen eighty Newton earn a PHD in the social flossy program of of the history of consciousness at the university of California Santa Cruz nine hundred eighty two the remnants of the Black Panther party officially and totally dissolve the Oakland community school closes Newton is charged with embezzling six hundred thousand dollars from the school. He sends to six months after pleading no contest stealing fifteen thousand in state aid intended for the school seven years later on August twenty second nine hundred eighty nine. Huey newton. Forty seven years old is shot to death on a west Oakland street by gang member. Tyrone Robinson allegedly over a drug deal Robinson is convicted of murder Newton had been allegedly involved in drug dealing. According numerous interviews with former Panthers for years by this point, the other co founder, Bobby Seale is alive and well eighty. Two years young still touring the country as a social activist cools that shit. You can find Bobby seals schedule by googling his name. And then clicking the news results and digging around. He does have a website, but the website is the website one would expect from an eighty two year old man, it does not have tour dates someone help Bobby out. And that takes us out of today's times of time line. Good job soldier made it back. No it into the internet today because it's essentially just a repeat of last week's it until the internet just replace antisemitic rhetoric with even more aggressive anti-black rhetoric, and then add tons of aggressively anti white racism, and then add a bunch of death to all cops rhetoric or they're a lot of good comments as well. Yeah. There are the history of of Panthers is a complicated. One minute black Americans, including the pants were. I sure oppressed. They were the victims of untold incidents of police brutality. They were the victims of a government conspiracy to take them down victims of racism, and sadly, many also became racist themselves. I I just can't get behind that. I just I don't like the rally of black power. Like, I said earlier any more than the rally of white power. It's meat sack. Power meets sack power or no power. For me hail Nimrod. The fight to me is about greater economic equality and equal opportunity to fight for your dreams for the for every color of meat sack. I guess I'm guess I'm more Dr king, Malcolm X, but easy for me to say is why do again easy for me to say never had a cop killer up with me never been asked us ever bathroom or been threatened by strangers through the color of my skin. Many Panthers took anger towards many racist cops, which which I get as much as I can and turned that into rage towards all cops, which I can't condone. But again, easy for me to say easy for me to play. Armchair revolutionary. Do. I think that everything the Panthers did was great, obviously. No. But I'm glad they existed because much of what they did and stood for and symbolized with I feel necessary to enact social change social changes that needed to happen at their best. They were fucking superheroes. Real superheroes. Not marvel creations. You know, they bravely showed other oppressed black Americans that you do not have to bend over and take it. You can stand up and stand up proud for your rights. And I think the black American needed them to do that in the nineteen sixties, and the, but there were also complicated. They're imperfect heroes like all real life heroes are now and some of them became villains. Some of them were villains posing revolutionaries. It was a very fragmented group. Just like all cops weren't bad. You know? All Panthers weren't good cleaver comes off like a fucking maniac. To me hard to get behind a guy who who blames committing rape on racial oppression. Fred Hampton comes across like a savior. You know, he was the black messiah that the FBI was so afraid of would love to pop into an alternate reality some other dimension where the FBI and Chicago police did not murder him in cold blood and just see what amazing shit. He did for not only black America for America in general that saying only the good die young seems to have been written about him. Dude seems from every single thing. I could find written about him from every speech. I watched him give to be a fuck and Saint of human being then there was co founder Huey Newton such a complicated. Dude, man, he did a lot of good with the social Justice programs. But then may have also killed several people. I watch interviews with several former high ranking Panthers that said that you know, he was just never the same after he was freed from prison. His mood was unpredictable. He allegedly assaulted verbally physically and even sometimes sexually several other panther members. Some former members said he was he was a violent drug addicted psychopath in his later years. Ruling the Panthers. But Newton was also public of publicly very important symbol for young black Americans. He was handsome. He was strong do is fucking jet. Looks like an action figure he was brave. He didn't take shit from anyone especially if they were white. He was charismatic. He an incredibly intelligent leader. He didn't just get a doctorate handed to him. I should also point out that there wasn't just dudes in the Panthers. There were a lot of female members. And I feel terrible for many of them. Even though they were part of a revolution against oppression against racism. They still faced oppression internally. They still face sexism from both white and black America. The Panthers were still a patriarchal organization and many of them of the women left early in the movement. I mean, how much must must have sucked to be fighting a fight for equal rights based on your skin color. Only to have to also fight a fight within your revolution for equal rights based on your genitalia. Never thought this would lead me to think about Oprah Winfrey. But it did over Winfrey man, she became an industry leader as a black woman in America. I got a little glimpse of into how hard that must be a tiny glimpse in this suck. I mean, Hailu Safina always liked Oprah. But respect to even more right now. I feel like hit the second button again. Yes, I get it. I as much as I can get it. Holy shit. What black women specifically have had to overcome in this country? Fucking mind boggling, no wonder Aretha thing the shit out of the song. So what's the legacy of the Panthers? What does their lasting impact in word in work is complicated? You know at the worst for organization founded his response to raise his money. Their members ended up being pre-race themselves at their best extremely inspirational the inspire new generation of black Americans to be strong to love themselves to love being black to not lay down and give up when it came to racism real stories. Just don't often fit into convenient narratives that did play out. Like, they're written for a TV melodrama life is fucking complicated. You can think to the black pants were freedom fighting inspirational heroes, and you're right. And you can think to the black pepper violent racists cop, killing criminals, and you're right. You know, it depends on which one you're talking about and which era and again, so complicated. What I love about the Panthers. What I found most inspiring about this was their fighting spirit. It is so easy. Just to take in life. So easy just to just to bitch and never actually fight really fight for what you believe in so easy to talk about, you know, talk to talk, but not walk the walk the. Panthers while you may not agree with some or even any of their messages. They walked the fuck out of their talk. Right. They stood up for their convictions. They fought for their convictions some of them fucking died for those convictions, outmanned, and outgunned. They refuse to stand down. When it came to stand up to the man, they fought the powers that be right? I got public enemy going my head now in the powers that be may of one, but they still thought them how many of us have ever fought for our ideals as hard as some of the Panthers fought for there's something to think about time now for top five takeaways. Number one. The Black Panther party originally named the Black Panther party for self defense was African American Revolutionary Party. Founded in nineteen sixty six Oakland, California by Huey Newton and Bobby Seale. The party's original purpose was to patrol African American neighborhoods to protect residents from acts of police brutality. Number two. The Black Panthers formed in the wake of Malcolm X's assassination and during a period of tremendous social upheaval and interested in America. When riots and protests were commonplace in America. And African Americans were statistically extremely disproportionately disenfranchised compared to any other race of America's number three. California's comparatively tough gun laws can be traced back to the Mulford act of nineteen sixty seven a law passed in response to the Black Panthers. No idea the Black Panthers inspired a trend to push for tighter and tighter gun control measures. That have continued to this day now before the Black Panther party officially dissolved and nine hundred eighty two and co founder Huey Newton died in a drug related murder and nine hundred eighty nine. Newton's funeral was held an Allen temple Baptist church where he was a member. Some thirteen hundred mourners were accommodated inside in another five to six hundred listen to the service from outside the other co founder, Bobby Seale continues to preach, social activism and standups man's day. With somebody plays helping with his website. And number five, new info. Let's talk for a second about the new Black Panthers. There is currently a black nationalist organization. United States called the Black Panthers. They form or the new Black Panthers. They formed in Dallas Texas nine hundred eighty nine. Can they consider themselves to be the successors to the original Black Panther party? They are not co founder Bobby Seale has been very very clear over and over. Again. I've watched him say in speeches. He cannot stand them in a speech. I watch Mr Seal tells the audience they deserve a huge dumbs down. And then what they stand for is totally antithetical to bobby's Panthers stood for when he began the movement, the southern poverty Law Center. The group had helped cut the balls off the KKK in America label. The new Black Panther party. A hate group. They preach insanely racist rhetoric. They're not revolutionaries their hate-mongers Khalid Abdul Muhammad, one of the party's future leaders at this point when he said this in nineteen Ninety-four said our lessons talk about the bloodsuckers of the poor. It's that old. No, good Jew. That impostor Jew that old hooked nose bagel eating locks eating Johnny come lately perpetrating a fraud. Just crawled out of the caves and hills of Europe so-called damn Jew as he said that fucking speech in hundred ninety four. King Samir Shabazz former head of the party's Philadelphia chapter said the following in a National Geographic documentary in two thousand nine he said just straight up by hate white people all of them every last iota of a cracker. I hate it. We didn't come out here to play today. There's too much serious business going on in the black community to be out here. Sliding through south street with white dirty cracker hor bitches on our arms, and we call ourselves black men. What the hell is wrong with you black man, you're at a doomsday with the white girl on your damn arm. We keep begging white people for freedom. No wonder we're not free. Your enemy cannot make you free full. You want freedom. You're going to have to kill some crackers. You're going to have to kill some of their babies how well king Samir. You have just had your invite joined the cult of the curious fuck and provoked don't like that attitude. You're not on teammate sack. You don't get to join the private Facebook group. And you're not welcome on discord. And I change your name king. Go fuck yourself held him. Away. Black Panthers have been sucked men. That was a tricky suck. I worked a lot of extra hours. A lotta overtime so much absorb so much. Consider I feel like I spend weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks on that one months and still be like, oh, I should've said this or I should have said that hope would did it some Justice hope my my black meets acts. No a love of. A white meat Zack's. No, I love him too. And hope law enforcement meet sacks. No, I love you guys and gals and that you don't deserve to be unjustly attacked anymore than citizens due to quote, arguably the most famous victim of police brutality in the past several decades. Rodney King can we all just get along. Okay. Thank you to the time. So team thanks to Queen of the sock. Lindy Cummins high priests a self harm availa camp. Jesse guardian of grammar donor river, Dr Joe pays time suck high priest Alex Dugan. The guy's a bit elixir danger brain axes apparel. Sophie fact, sorceress Evans, thanks to find research to get me started great medium person, by the way. So in New Jersey at the stress factory hit the shirt on right now. Dress factory talk about community real quick. Have you joined the coal to curious private Facebook group have you and again, Samir fuck not you not you. There's almost seven thousand times in the private colty curious group on Facebook, maybe more actually now and almost fifteen hundred discord members linked discord chatroom messy nap right on the time. So cap linked to the private Facebook group and the discord channel also today's episode description next week, I encourage more potential controversy with with these spaces or chosen topic of pedophile island. What is pedophilia island? The Washington State Department of social and health services operates special commitment center SEC programs that provide specialized mental health treatment for civilly committed sex offenders who have completed their prison sentences. The island was was initially considered uncle secret silent and brother touchy fingers, but they went with they went with a special commitment center. Of course, that's fucked up. Not true a superior courts in the county in which an individual was previously convicted of a sex crime have the authority now. In Washington determine if individuals meet the legal definition of a sexually violent predator, and then can civilly commit them to the SEC, which is legal speak for sending them to an island with are not allowed to leave after prison sentence has been completed and they're just kept there until they're no longer deemed a threat to sexually refund. They could potentially be kept there until they die. Is this the best way to deal with pedophile? How big of a problem are pedophile files. How many are out there? How often do they victimize? How many lives have been negatively affected by pedophile and other sex offenders? Do they even deserve rehabilitation? Can they even be rehabilitated? Tune in next Monday for a deep dive on a very uncomfortable subject tuna now for today's time sucker updates. In time Sunday day. I out date is felt very apropos today for today's you know, topic. The first update comes in from a longtime law enforcement soccer. I've met several times who wishes to remain unnamed in this message, and he writes, hey, guys, I wanted to bring to your attention. I know how much you appreciate the sacrifices made by law enforcement in this country. Lukas Dow embodies everything his last name implies do well dally spelled do. Well. And and this anonymous time sucker sent me a link to an article about Virginia sate trooper Lucas be del who was killed when someone inside a home far too weapon at police executing the search warrant warrant during a recent drug investigation the person who killed trooper Dowell identify police. It's Cory Johnson of Cumberland county was shot and killed by police, and our fellow meet sat continues with I trained him when he first hit the road, and he was a shift partner for many years before leaving the Charlottesville area. Man. I'm so sorry, buddy. Happy. If you do mention anything on a future episode plea my name out of it yet. I don't want to track anything away from this. I don't want. I don't bring this to you. Because I want sympathy or attention. He was a good trooper the kind everyone would be proud to have working for them. And everyone should know the sacrifice he mate? And then he writes, whether you are for or against drugs. I hope none of our listeners is for killing cops. This is just the kind of thing I think about when people refer to drug use as a victimless crime. I don't mean to offend anyone. But I just learned this happened about nine hours ago, and I'm still processing my anger. Thank you for who you are. And what you believe in. Thank you for the cold of the curious. Thank you, man. And what what a I mean. Absolutely terrible this happened. I am so glad that you did send it a message right away. How perfect for for this week? Just just a reminder, the yes, there are a lot of great law enforcement officers out there, and they sacrificed so much to keep us safe to keep people of every color safe. And there are law enforcement officers of every color. Thank you. For being an incredible a law enforcement officer, I based that on numerous interactions. I have had with you with many stories you've sent in over the past few years thoughts. Go out with your obviously, I can't name you on the show. But thanks for sending this message in now, we'll shift gears lighten things up with hilarious. Message from time sucker Haley Ford who writes, Dan, I listened to the inspirational episode this one of the ones over the holidays, and you talked about how the mom ate peanut butter while she was pregnant and her babies. Ended up causing her baby skeleton to grow outside of his body. I flipped the ever. I flipped the ever loving fuck out. I peanut butter all the time in three weeks away from delivering I was so convinced that my baby was. Still I was so convincing my baby was going to have an ex oh skeleton, which is fucking stupid because this is my second baby. And I've seen three d ultrasounds of her. She is not in fact, an ant baby. You fuck face. Every episode. You say some shit that gets me. The first one I remember was during the episode about teddy Roosevelt. You said that the teddy bear was named after him because he got caught one women steady totally believed you it's literally happened during every episode. I believed you like many others when you mentioned that people used to fuck dogs in caves or some shit, and I believed you because of the twelve bucks killer episode. I was like, oh, maybe he just had that nasty desire to it made complete sense to me, you're an asshole separate note. I love your podcast on finally caught up and having withdrawals. A love the you donate money remote. And that you've changed on people's lives. I have become much more open minded and even joined the podcasts. I didn't want to listen to us. I love hearing that a force myself to listen to all of them ended up loving all them because of the ways presented formation and the Gotcha. You throw into each one. I know lately, I feel like I've been pulling a little bit away from every because I want people to get lulled into a false sense of security on a separate note. I know you get so many requests for shots. But I would so much. Appreciate it. If you could give my boyfriend Dominic shout. He's the most amazing person. He works on the weekends. We inside. Jobs to make extra money for us. Then comes home and cooks and plays with our three year old daughter. Like, I mentioned before we're having our second daughter on the twenty fifth he has gone above and beyond to make sure that we're ready for her rival to give you an example of the kind of person. He is we were driving around one day, and it was ridiculously hot outside. This was back when he drove around conducting CNA hospice visits and we saw homeless man in the side of the road that he apparently saw frequently. He told me that it keeps a case of water bottles in his car. And when he has the chance he gives the homeless water bottles. So they don't have to become dehydrated. He is unbelievably carrying and selfish. And does what he can for anyone and everyone around him, even if he doesn't know them. He's the best thing to ever happen to me, and my little girls, and he is the one that introduced me to your comedy and time sick. So I love him even more. He's inspiration to me every day. I understand if you're not able to announce this. But it would mean the world to me if he heard you read this smiley face again. Thank you, you beautiful soccer for all you do hoping to be a spacer too soon. So we can help keep times going Haley Ford. Thank you Haley. Thank you. Dominic for being a good. Dude, love how much you to our love, man. Life is fucking short spend as much of it as you can with loving your hearts. I don't care that sounds corny fucks true. Love love says the angry bearded air banjo playing Idaho man now Mosman update coming in from time sucker John chick. John writes, most holy pope pope suck. I write to inform you that rich had them. The screenwriter of the Richard Gere Mothman prophesies film admitted to completely making up the moss. Manage your noble thing. I did not know that. I love these updates. The film ends by alluding to other Mothman sightings from around the globe. Oh, I don't think I ever watched it to that point. I guess right. Is forgotten. So here's the podcast, astonishing, legends plugs. Time suck many moons ago. And their endorsement is how I arrived at the curious. I love both time suck an astonishing me to me. Those those guys are great and well rich had him as a friend of theirs and has been on a few astonishing episodes. He specifically admits that he made the whole thing up. So no Mothman there. John. Thank you John mid. I love those kind of updates yet. Because I did not come across that. Now, another funny one this one. This one killed me. This is I believe this. Yeah. This is the last one for today. Subject line of you're such an asshole comes in from time sucker, Greg hawk to our fearless suck master. I truly love your podcast. I'm a mailman I'm in and out of businesses walk into neighborhoods and driving along services are driving along servicing curbside mailboxes. It's usually mind numbing lonely work. I listen to various podcast route today two ear buds because well because of you mainly I look forward to your podcast like no other list fucking. Yes. Your show informs entertains me. Through two parts of my workweek. I'm an OG space. I'm ed. Thank you for being a space used to be three. But I'll forgive you for that. Oh, yeah. The bonus socks were fucking killing me listing today to the black death episode. I knew I would be using a new sign off for my emails. I have been using my favorite quote from your shows loved everything about it wouldn't change a thing. Two out of five stars. It's that joke. Still funny originally that was going to be the entirety of my emails today. But then the letter you read to close the show chains tone of dismissive. It's one thing to be walking along delivered mail and have to stop what I'm doing because of laughing so hard that's not bubbles reforming. But it's something else to have to wipe away tears and be sniffling like previews Pugh Besson girl that just got heartbroken by the boy classics nortre. How about a heads up you asshole? How it a fucking spoiler alert or something that letter was so well written so poignant I contend that. Only a cyborg wooden sniffle a little after hearing you read that that poor man has all the sympathy. I have to give I can only imagine the hell he's experiencing. It is truly. Of the worst things that a parent can go through I've had scares with my kids and grandkids now, but nothing in comparison to this. Thank you for your decision to make the spaces donation to help in some small way. I'll be adding and check my own in the following day's load. The Greg aim the Greg fire the Greg HALE Nimrod, Greg heart perfect note end on today. Greg thanks for being so great band and all all that as as well load. The Greg aim the Greg file the Greg. Thanks time Sundays nine we all did have a great week everyone. Another secret suck on Thursday few space. Thank you again for the donation money pedophile island next Monday. And if you start a revolution this week, please let every meet sack of every color part of it and make sure while your freedom fighting that you keep on sucking. Deigning? Paneling? Thank Joe airbase. Thank thing Bank for thank thank thing. Think got pay airbase. Thank you.

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Why Bill Barr really rebuked President Trump

The Daily 202's Big Idea

13:05 min | 8 months ago

Why Bill Barr really rebuked President Trump

"The Daily to Oh two is supported by the showtime Docu series. The circus get a different perspective. On Twenty Twenty presidential campaign from hosts John Holloman Alex Wagner and Mark Mckinnon as they go behind the scenes and beyond the headlines of the most important story of our time. Don't miss the Circus Sundays at eight PM. Only on Showtime Good Morning. I'm Holman from the Washington Post and this is the daily two. Oh Two for Friday February fourteenth in today's news. The Corona virus is cramping Valentine's Day flower sales senate. Republicans may torpedo president. Trump's Federal Reserve nominee and trump allies are starting to focus attention on Buddha judges sexual orientation but I saw the big idea attorney general. Bill Bar pushed back last night against trump's attacks on the justice department he told. Abc News that. He's not going to be bullied or influenced by anybody. The remarkable public rebuke of the president by a sitting member of the cabinet arose from a crisis of confidence at DOJ. Which has been accused? This week of buckling to an angry tweet. The president issued after learning of prosecutors initial prison recommendation for his longtime friend. Roger Stone Bar told ABC that it's time for trump to stop tweeting about active criminal cases to have public statements and tweets made about the department About people in the department. Our our men and women hear about cases pending in the department and about judges before whom we have cases Make it impossible for me to do my job to assure the court and the prosecutors in the in the department That we're doing our work with integrity. Since becoming attorney general last year enthusiastically and repeatedly defended the President. He covered for him by initially misleading. The American people about what Bob Mueller concluded people close to bar say that in recent months he's become increasingly frustrated with trump's tweets about the justice department while Boris comfortable not being loved by career employees who worked for him he felt. This week's comments from trump raised a bigger problem by giving people fresh evidence to believe that he's politicized raven corrupted the nation's chief law enforcement agency behind the public fight however is a deeper tension. That's been growing between trump and bars justice department over the lack of criminal charges against former. Fbi Director Jim Komi and those close to him. The flare up over the stone sentence is really more about whom the department has not charged with crimes than about whom it has. This is according to several people familiar with the discussions. Both at the Justice Department and the White House who spoke to my colleagues Devon Barrett Matt's at Petoskey and Josh Dossey trump has repeatedly complained about. Fbi Director. Chris wray someone he appointed over the past few months. He is angry. That Ray has not done enough to purge the Bureau of people who he perceives as being disloyal. Him Trump has tweeted many times that he thinks Komi should be charged with crimes and he was particularly upset that no charges were filed over the former FBI directors handling of memos about his interactions with the president. An Inspector General Report faulted the former director for keeping some of those memos in a safe at his home and for arranging for the contents of one of the most to be shared with a reporter after Comey was fired in two thousand Seventeen Justice Department inspector. General Michael Horowitz referred Comey's handling of the most to prosecutors for possible criminal prosecution but lawyers quickly determined. It wasn't even a close call and they didn't seek to build a case that sent trump into a rage. He complained so loudly and swore so frequently in the Oval Office that some of his aides discussed it for days according to Multiple White House. Staffers trump told people he wanted to find a way to get Komi indicted for something. Trump has also wanted charges filed against companies former. Deputy Andy McCabe. A separate inspector. General's investigation concluded that McCabe lied to investigators about his role in authorizing disclosures to a Wall Street Journal reporter in October. Two thousand sixteen about internal F. B. I. Tensions over an investigation of the Clinton Foundation. A grand jury in Washington seemed poised to make a decision on that case last year before fizzling into inaction trump's anger over the lack of charges against F. B. I. Personnel flared again. Last month prompted by two unrelated developments. I The prosecutors updated their position in the case of former national security adviser. Michael Flynn saying a sentence of some prison. Time would be appropriate a few days later the Washington Post reported that US attorney. John Huber in Utah tap years earlier to re investigate several issues related to vague unsubstantiated allegations of corruption against Hillary Clinton had quietly wound down his work after finding nothing of consequence these developments further enraged the president in his mind. It's unacceptable that people like Komi McCabe haven't been indicted when people like stone and Flynn are being treated in his view harshly in recent weeks. The president's anger has focused increasingly on Jesse Lou the former. Us Attorney for the District of Columbia against someone appointed by trump. Her office had been handling many of the cases related to Comi and other former. Fbi officials the office recently conducted interviews in a leak. Enquiry I'm senior. Fbi officials over news stories. In two thousand seventeen the discussing top-secret Russian intelligence document that influence Tacoma's decision-making back in two thousand sixteen many of the questions being asked by investigators have focused on the former FBI director again. Remember trump is determined to try to indict combing for something separately. Bar Tapped Connecticut. Us Attorney John Durham to investigate whether any crimes were committed by FBI and CIA officials in the pursuit of allegations in two thousand sixteen. That Russia interfered in the election to benefit trump's campaign after learning that the Huber investigation in. Utah is not likely to produce any charges. Trump has become more and more insistent that Durham finishes work soon. According to several people familiar with the discussions trump has told people that he wants to be able to use whatever durham fines as a cudgel in his reelection campaign. All of that frustration has fed in to the public fight over the stone case. Stone is scheduled to be sentenced next week. And that's the big idea here. Art Three other headlines that should be on your radar number one. The economic fallout of the corona virus is growing around the world. Singapore's leaders warning today of a possible recession as the virus and travel curbs slam the regional economy. Asian and European auto plants are running short of parts. Free-spending Chinese tourists are staying home and American companies are bracing for unpredictable turbulence. And that's just the start. The financial hangover will linger for months. Even if the illness is soon brought under control the Chinese epidemics aftershocks will probably cause the global economy to shrink this quarter for the first time since the depths of the two thousand nine financial crisis some. Us manufacturers say they're facing shortages of parts in one to two weeks that could force them to furlough American workers. One quarter of China's economy has been particularly hard. Hit this week. Flower Sellers Broccoli. Cauliflower basks in hand sanitizer are the way to prove you. Love Your partner. This Valentine's Day at least in China forget red roses flower delivery platforms or reporting ninety. Five percent drop in online flower sales as health fears dissuade people from ordering anything online or going to pick up deliveries. Meanwhile another five thousand cases of Corona virus were reported yesterday bringing the count in mainland China passed sixty three thousand more places around. Wuhan the epicenter of the outbreak or enacting so-called wartime measures like sealing off residential complexes and only allowing essential vehicles on the roads. Apps are being used by the government to track citizens who must provide extensive medical information before entering exiting key Chinese cities allowing authorities to collect a huge amount of data China's National Health Commission announced today that more than seventeen hundred medical workers have now been infected with corona virus number two three Republican senators on the Senate Banking Committee said last night that they're undecided about whether to support Judy Shelton after sitting through her daylong. Confirmation hearing the senators are Pat. Toomey from Pennsylvania. Dick Shelby from Alabama and John Kennedy from any one of them could torpedo her nomination since. Republicans only have a one-seat advantage on the panel to me said he didn't know if Shelton would uphold the Fed's independence shelby said that the nominee sounded like she could be an outlier whose views are outside the mainstream Kennedy said quote. Nobody wants anybody on the Federal Reserve. That has eight. Fatal attraction to nutty ideas. Shelton has been a longtime outspoken critic of the Fed. The board she joined and for advocating for decades that the United States returned to something akin to the gold standard which we've abandoned since nineteen seventy-one. She's alarmed many in the financial world by calling for more coordination between the fat in the White House. She's also altered some of her views to become more in line with trump's aggressive push for lower interest rates. The White House said it stands fully behind. Shelton who said several times during her confirmation hearing that she would bring intellectual diversity to the Fed what she means by that is that she a PhD in Business Administration from the University of Utah. It's very Harriet. Myers esque background. Trims prior to picks businessman Herman Cain and conservative. Pundit Stephen Moore both had to withdraw because of personal issues related to women to trump's other fed nominees were also passed over. Trump has made no secret that he regrets picking Jerome Powell to be fed chair and there is a war among elites in both parties that trump would quickly try to elevate shelton to this top job at the central bank when Powell's term expires in early. Twenty twenty two number three a week after receiving the Presidential Medal of freedom during the state of the Union rush limbaugh questioned on his radio show whether Americans are ready for gay candidate who kisses his husband onstage. The federalist a popular conservative website defended Limbaugh's comments on his radio show Wednesday sub Gorka. A former deputy assistant to the president a current trump campaign surrogate bizarrely questioned. What right Buddha judge has to weigh in on abortion rights? If he's never going to get a woman pregnant conservative radio host Ben. Ferguson seemed to imply that boo judges somehow less masculine. Because he's gay a video that went viral last week on the right shoulder an Iowa woman who caucus for Buddha judge asking whether she could change her vote after finding out that he's gay. The woman says in the video that he had better read the Bible all. These attacks are prompting blunt responses from Buddha judges allies in his Democratic rivals who've all called the remarks inappropriate and offensive. Interestingly the Buddha judge campaign is declining to respond to these comments on the record previous candidates have sometimes decided to confront a density issues directly. Barack Obama delivered that highly personal talk on race in Philadelphia in two thousand eight John F. Kennedy gave that landmark speech about his Catholicism in Nineteen Sixty two group of Protestant ministers so far. The Buddha judge team is concluded that ignoring the remarks as the best choice but that could change if the attacks become louder and more frequent or show signs of resonating more widely since Budi judges strong performances in Iowa and Hampshire journalists have also begun raising the issue of his sexuality more frequently. That's prompted responses like Buddha. Just comment this week to people magazine. He said he's excited to start a family soon with his husband Charleston. No matter what happens in this race whether they're in the White House or not. Buddha judge said that the next chapter in their personal lives will be having kids. And that's the daily two. Oh Two for Friday February fourteenth. Thanks for listening. I'm James Holman to celebrate Presidents Day. We'll be off on Monday but were back. Tuesday have a great long weekend.

Trump president Justice Department Trump Fbi Federal Reserve Roger Stone Bar White House Washington Post China James Holman Jim Komi Judy Shelton Andy McCabe Abc News attorney Us Attorney Us Twenty Twenty director
Ep. 217 | State of the Union, Ominous Warning for Syria & Real Radicals

The News & Why It Matters

48:21 min | 1 year ago

Ep. 217 | State of the Union, Ominous Warning for Syria & Real Radicals

"Good afternoon America for those of you who are tuning in to see Glenn TV he is of course, in DC right now, he will be joining Eric Bolling for our state of the union coverage live from DC. We have got a bunch of special guests, we've got Sean Spicer. We've got Cory in TAOs go we've got Mr. Bill O Reilly and several of our blaze TV host will be joining us throughout the night. We will have a Ben Ferguson Steve days. John Miller will also be live from the capital. And the most exciting part is Eric Bolling after the address after the state of the union will be heading down to the Trump hotel lobby bar, and he will be doing his broadcast from Trump hotel bar. I mean, you're not gonna see that anywhere else. You're not going to see that on CNN. Okay. So make sure to tune in blaze. Tv we're going to be on YouTube live. We're going to be on Facebook live as well. So we are going to bring in we're gonna. Have an hour long version of the news and white matters. And we're going to give a little bit of state of the union preview coverage at the end of show. So now I present to you Mr. Suber gear back from the Super Bowl. How's that voice doing a mediocre? Okay. Strongly mediocre. Yes. So big today for me is apparently hearts socialism, which excited about what could possibly go wrong. Just sharing. Jason buttery chief researcher for the Glenn Beck program. What's your top story? Some comments came out today in a Senate hearing on the pull out of US troops from Syria that really really worries me. All right, and Mr. Andrew Beaton from something's off with Andrew Heaton news. A congressman who wants to give the presidency more power over taxes. And I have a problem with that shocking. Yeah. People I would have never. That you would like power. I just wanna power to go away. All right. It's to you said Americans heart, socialism, apparently. So we're seeing that more and more one of the two parties. I don't know if you've noticed going to run what is the sensually socialist candidate by all indications especially after they have to fall over each other to further and further left to win the primary, so they're all embracing for example, Medicare for all birdie centers for proposed Medicare for all in two thousand thirteen and got zero co sponsors and now every single candidate that has entered the race on the left so far is sing it, and everyone is expected to maybe get one like Biden who says Medicare for only all everybody, but a couple of people maybe he won't give it to Bill Mayer. George right. Exactly. But there's going to be pretty much. Universal acceptance of that. And now, we're seeing the latest litmus test apparently to be a democrat is these nice seventy percent tax rates that we used to have. And the fact that billionaires shouldn't even exist. They shouldn't even be a thing. And these proposals are coming out and the crazy thing about it is not that Alexandria, Causey Cortez things. Everyone should have seventy percent tax rates. That's no surprise to anyone. What is somewhat surprising is the universal appeal apparently to Americans for these proposals? We have a bunch of polls that are out. Politico put them all in one place here. A few of them seventy six percent of registered voters believe the wealthiest Americans should pay more in taxes seventy percent of Americans favor raising taxes on those earning over ten million dollars, including fifty four percent of Republicans, which is absolutely amazing. When you got a Cossio Cortez has a plan coming up seventy percent, Mark. Tax rate on income earned over ten million dollars that fifty nine percent approval and Elizabeth Warren had a wealth tax. She's proposed on people who make too much money for her taste. And that was a sixty one percent support it now, I'll give you the little Asterix maybe a little bit of hope here in that. When you ask people should the rich pay more taxes. Everybody says yes when you ask Barich should they pay more than twenty five percent taxes. Most people say no because they don't have any concept that the richer paying a lot more than twenty five percent, as it is most people think the rich are, you know, they're they're robber barons. And they're up they're paying zero percents. They're paying nothing, and we're paying everything. That's the you get that told you and enough times, you know, you believe it and most people don't up making ten million dollars. I never get to experience it, unfortunately. So there is a little bit of an Asterix here. When you actually look a little bit deeper in the polling, but that's just way too much approval for these things. I mean, it's ridiculous. And so I. Shows way too much ignorance on part of the American people that the only reason that they're answering that way is because they don't know how much the rich already pays. Yeah. Because I think most people don't think it's moral to take thirty and forty percent of someone's money. No matter how much money they earn to take that much money from someone is acting as if you did you do thirty or forty percent of the work to get it. I mean, no one thinks that we all understand that we have a society, and there's some need to fund that apparatus. I mean, obviously everybody here we all think it's too big. And I think income taxes a terrible way to do it. But still there's a an understanding that someone has to pay and if you've got the nine Lamborghinis, maybe you should be the one paying I can understand that from a basic, you know, basic perspective of the average person. But I think you have to look at these things when you make proposal for a new law new tax. You have to look at these things through a handy dandy four step process that I've developed, and I think this is this could help anyone in Washington walk through this. Whenever you're proposing. These things ask all of these things first before they become part of your platform. So step number one. Do we have the the list here? The one is benefit. Now. This is something that everybody does. This is the only step out of here that people do what they do say. Is there a benefit is there a theoretical benefit to this policy where you'd say if we take all the money from billionaires, and we give it all to the poorest among us. Is there any benefit taken that in a vacuum? Sure. There's a benefit right? I mean. Yeah. If people would be able to eat or pay their bills or go to college or whatever you can do lots of fun things with that money. If it were to be all yours. So I there's benefit the second one is where everybody stops the second one is the cost. Yes, you can get a benefit out of something like that. But at what cost does it discourage people who own businesses from hiring people? Does it discourage them from innovating doesn't disturb him from even wanting to earn earn more money? Why try if you're at nine point nine million dollars? Why bother if they're gonna take almost all of it over there? You're you know, you're gonna stop you're gonna stop bothering right or you're going to find ways around it. Which is another thing that a lot of people. Do the next step is process is it if you if it does have a good benefit and the cost is not too high. Can it clears the process is it constitutional is it legal most of the time. People don't ask that either. They don't bother with that one. And then four is the one that almost never gets asked, which is it moral for let's just say the benefit. Okay. Yes. Theoretically, taking billionaires money and giving it to poor people. There's a benefit to those poor people cost. Let's say, well, they're built bastard billionaires, we don't care about the cost process. Well, the sixteenth amendment. I mean, it gives you a right to income tax. I guess constitutionally. But is it moral is it moral to take someone else's stuff to propose the thing that you're doing should you ever go after even more and more and more of someone else's earning someone else's possession? Something that you had nothing to do with because you feel it's important to take from them and not allow them to. Do what they want with their own possession. A big part of this is you know, if we're going to have if we're going to have a welfare state or going to have some amount of military spending or government spending. Whatever we've got to figure out how we're going to portion who who pays for it. That's a fair a fair conversation when you look at Alexandria, Cosio Cortez. And you look at Lisbeth warn the impression I get is that. Yeah, they'd like to fund more stuff. But really they just don't want billionaires. So it's not a question of like, well, we need more money to spend for these wonderful things that we all agree as needed is just billionaires bad. Let's use tax as a weapon to punish people for being successful. And I do not like using taxes as a weapon whether it's through cigarette. Taxes to discourage you dumb yokels for smoking cigarettes where there's punish billionaire spring successful. If you don't like billionaires millionaires, there's a very easy formula. Just get rid of them. And that's what what's Larry is Francis. Already done this. These are not new ideas. Everything Okaz Cortez lives with Warren, everyone the last administration. France, tried this Francois Hollande was. Probably one of the more socialist presence. They they've had for France. Yeah. He did the things seventy five percent well tax and a few other things the results of that were by twenty two thousand by twenty fifteen I think it was ten thousand millionaires even billionaires millionaires left left the country by far more than any other place in the entire world in the United States the statistics safaris, I'm more of it is right now the top one percent if we wanna use that weird artificial racket for about forty four percent of the taxes in the United States. If you scare off the one percent that's paying about half of the taxes right now you and I now have to increase taxes, we're paying. The very next year. This just crazy just make this point the they didn't slowdown, but it actually increased by another two thousand Belgium. Belgium. They do they have the all the. This having New York and Florida with Trump tax cuts. They can't deduct the state taxes. They're all these millions of moving to Florida. I will include my fifth step in this process, which is not necessarily official one. But if you go through, and you find the benefit and the cost and the process, and the moral is, okay, you've probably still shouldn't do it. Anyway, that's just something. I'm trying to tell the government just as a general platform and that probably be good back in a minute. It's it's to inform the way they do. Jason what happened in the Senate today? So there was a general that's in command of forces in Afghanistan in both Iraq. He testified in hearing it Senate at in the Senate, and I remember there was there was rumors before the and you can't trust the rumors that you hear coming. Just the way we are nowadays. But the rumor said that he did that the president did not consult with his generals before he decided to pull the troops out. And I didn't really believe that I knew something pissed off General Mattis enough to to make him leave. But I just find it so hard to believe that he didn't consult with anyone and just made the decision, you know, during his five AM tweet fest and said, screw them pulling out. But this is what this general is testifying. He saying he did not consult me at all. It was a shock to all of us. And all of a sudden, we decided without even getting our opinion on what the reality on the ground was we he just decided to pull the troops out there moving towards that goal to to start with a timeline to actually. Get all of our troops out. But the general when he was testifying said that the reality right now on the ground is is that ISIS has kinda gone into possum moat or into turtle mode. They're playing the long game. So granted they their caliphate is knowing caliphate anymore. The only have twenty I think square miles of territory, but if you think about it that's stronger than Kedah ever was they still have the ability. They're still hitting targets, you know, all throughout the world al-qaeda never owned territory like that. But look what I'll Kedah was able to do to us. Now ISIS right now, even the entire world has gone to war with them. They're still alive, and they're still vastly more powerful. The now keta was at the height of their power. That's scary. And I actually went to Iraq. I went to Iraq about a year and a half ago or so and it was right? As Mozell was coming down. And I remember going there with a different story just to kind of see everything I wanted to see what life was like Mozell. And how you know. Because story time and see all that go down. But the story ended up getting was all the lessons. They had learned to stay alive this entire time. And I was like, wow. These guys have rewritten the rulebook on guerrilla warfare. And how to survive in these crazy crazy odds with the entire world coming down on them. And it was frightening. All things I saw absolutely frightening, and we're actually doing a documentary about it. So that was kind of a cool. This is a kind of telling you about this actually show, you some of the things that we saw and this'll be coming out a fairly soon. It okay. We've been hearing. It's no longer the unicorn it is coming out. And this is the proof check this out. In fact, our crew were the only foreign journalists given access inside Mozell during one of the last days of fighting there for at the Iraqi special forces checkpoint and a whole lot of bureaucratic red tape to go through here. A long line of journalists. They're not letting in hoping amid can work as magic here because you guessed it, the med is pretty good at to go sheeting. We got permission to the head of the front. Yes. It looks like they re go to. We saw all the horrific scenes you'd expect from a war zone bombed out buildings and vehicles. Iraqi soldiers continuing the fight. Did ISIS soldiers. Terrified Iraqi residents who survived the footage. We got has never been seen before anywhere. It's historic. And as you know, the army did take back the city weakening end depleting ISIS from Iraq. But I still felt like there was more to this story. Isis was able to hold the city for three years. How they do it. Explore that question during my last two days in Iraq. I found something I never would have expected. So that that kind of set you up where goes in the story goes beyond that is what I didn't expect was all of these innovations that they had learned and the scary part was they are now prepared to unleash that. So they're going in just as this generals just talking about they're going into that turtle mode, and all of these things that they've learned all these new tactics that have never been tried. I don't believe I've ever been tried on a on a battlefield. They are. They've now save that up. And they're going to unleash it. The next time they poke their heads out again. I was told by previous president that ISIS was just the JV team. Right. That's not actually the person. He did. President is defeated to true. That's true. Either one of those ethica, right? Yeah. I mean, quite obviously. Well, it'll be interesting to see how that plays out just with you know, it just makes me so nervous that people who were you know, they could tolerate President Trump being elected always said he's going to surround himself with good people know, he's obviously not foreign relations expert, but he's going to have his people around him that he'll listen to. And it sounds like that's not actually the case. Definitely didn't listen to the people. Even if they are really great people in smart. You didn't listen to them in this case? And that's that's very very worse worrisome. And you'll hear that tonight. I'd say the union, I'm sure he's going to, you know, Syria success and ISIS success. But just keep these things in mind when when you hear them talking about that Andrew your top story congressman is proposing to give the president more power power. I think we can all agree that the presidency's become a Nemec week over the last several centuries of American rule. I basically figurehead of. This point courageous Representative Sean Duffy has written legislation. He's a congressman from Wisconsin to give the president more power to raise tariffs. So normally taxation is completely vested in congress. That is what the constitution deigned, and it's meant to be the more vigorous and active branch of government. He's proposing legislation to give the president power to raise tariffs. The the problem. I have with this are multifold. I I don't want congress conceding any more power to the presidency. I don't care who the president is at the time. This isn't even a Trump thing. Congress is overtime atrophied and just gone. You want the president's gonna handle it or this happens a lot unrelated to this me know that we need to do certain things, but they're unpopular so we're just going to give a broad re-met to the EPA or whatever to clean the water, and then they'll do it. And then when they do it will go the PA for doing this, congress does this all the time it needs to actually do its job and part of its job is determining what taxes are going to be raised. Tariffs are a stealth tax on you. Their attacks to punish you for. How dare you buy purchases from other countries? It's a punitive tax. But it is a tax. It's Congress's job to do that. And then the deeper part of this and something that I suspect Lynn will probably elaborate on when he rejoins the program is that if you do that too high you get to the Smoot Hawley level at which point you just bring down the house of cards, which is the economy, and right now, there doesn't seem to be termination of the trade war. Everyone seems to be locking in and increasing. So the more we raise those tariffs the more. It's gonna hurt you and me and other American consumers in the more at threatens the actual global economy. So I sure hope that build on pass what they've already given them all the power to do this. I think it's giving him as I understand it more. He can he can raise the rates where he can pick certain certain countries to target or something. I'm not sure to be honest with you. I don't fully understand why that's even a presidential at all. He's already doing this. Right. I mean, he's already doing twenty five percent for this amount and ten percent on this amount and steals aluminum aluminum in these countries, and he's exempting others. I don't know. How much how he could have more power to be already seemed like it was unilateral, and and you know, unstoppable, which again, it's in the cut students specifically that this is supposed to be handled by congress and congress passed a Bill to give the power to the president. I was gonna I was really hoping as you said that it was gonna be the opposite. I mean, we should be having bills being proposed by Republicans by Republicans that say, you know, what we we're the one we could take the hit here. Because if a democrat, the Democrats are never gonna vote for it. When there's a democratic president Republicans have to be if they had principals on this matter, they would stand up now and say, let's take the congress back the power back to congress. The Democrats would go along with them because they just hate Trump. Yeah. And they could actually get this back to congress where the founders designed that power to be there's there's actually very good opportunity to rebalanced power between the legislative and the executive branch right now, if they were to take it demagoguery is kind of hilarious though. Because you know, they're doing stuff like this to, you know, increase power for the presidency. Then they also do stuff like like Dhaka. Doc, the president tried to give the congress back more power tried to give it to them. And they reveal they resisted that. And this part of the problem of the current political climate is that it is a it is a football powers of football. We the the whole goes just for your team to have the football. Again. I want to shrink that football. My my analogies. Terrible here. I wanna tiny football. I think what's so frustrating. Also, at least for me is that Republicans are so quick to point out whenever democratic socialists say, well, I mean is going to work and we're like look at history. It hasn't worked tell us where it's worked, and then we turn around and on tariffs. We're like. Yeah. Tariffs are good. Let's do it. Let's do a trade war. And it's like no the history shows that that is also not good. They're going to be negative repercussions. And it's just frustrating for me that as Republicans like we can't look and see that on both sides of. It's only happened every time it's been tried. So true. What's next? It could be. Enough or the right way some point. We'll get the exact right way. And then they will work out fine. They're the dose of optimism. There is a silver lining though to this. Because even though we keep trying to increase the power of the US present the US president is the weakest leader in the entire world. And a lot of people don't understand that the US president is the weakest head of the country of any other country in the in the entire world. And that's where people like in Europe. Like, oh my gosh. He was the American president going to be oh my gosh. These things are gonna go pretty much the same as they were. I mean because he's he's a bully pulpit guy does not have a lot of power. Back in a minute. You guys ready for your daily dose of idiocy for the day. Bring it on. Okay. A twenty seven year old man from India is going to sue his parents for having him without his consent. He says that they had him for their joy and their pleasure. And he did not consent to that. And he wants to do something about it. That's very interesting. Apparently, a new growing group that I forget what what they call themselves. But that that's their group is just like babies don't consent to being born. Who are you parents are like having them and providing for them their entire life used to cover my bases before I ever conceive Goto psychic beforehand to indicate with the unborn child. And how you have to do it. And then I get that psychic to sign off right index. And then I'm good. Apparently, apparently, these parents in India did not do that does psychic take euless. Although that does force you to. Admit that it's a baby, right? Has right. Like that. So how concerned right exactly I mean? So I don't think they can pass because the left candidate mitt that the they can't possibly say that it's a baby right? Even seconds before birth. Well, although infanticide is now, okay. Now south fairly, by the way. I I was at the Super Bowl and every year at Super Bowl these same. I assume they're the same people because they're doing the same things which has have giant signs about how you're going to hell, and they have megaphones and scream at you about how you're definitely going to hell and Rams or just certainly was targeted at patriot fans. Obviously, they they probably are. But, but I mean, they know it's the same every big event has those people with a show up with megaphones, and preach, and whatever it's their right to go, free speech and all that power some new group this year, which is sort of related this conversation, which was anti circumscription protesters, which is apparently turning into a big a big thing. And throw a couple of bucks that way. Really? Yeah. That'd be your issue. Super Bowl, very grotesque signs of very, and I go with a push circumcision with guns. We gotta go guys. But up next we're going to preview the state of the union. So do not turn it off more Nakon, white pants like blood all over that. Bill. Welcome to the news. And why it matters. I am Sara Gonzalez if you are just now tuning in to watch your regularly scheduled program be advise we actually have an hour long episode today. Go back and watch it on Glenn TV he is. Of course in DC in the swamp. Getting ready for the state of the union address where we are going to have plenty of coverage all night. Eric Bolling is hosting our state of the union coverage. I'll be around Glenn will, of course, be in DC with Eric at the Trump hotel DC bar that should be fun. We've got John Miller live at the capital. We're going to be joined by Ben Ferguson, Steve dais, Phil Robertson. Mark levin. We've got a lot of the blaze TV host joining in for the state of the union coverage. So don't miss it. Again. Go back if you wanna talk if you want to listen to the top stories of the day right now, we're going to get into kind of a preview of the state of the union. What we think is going to happen. How we expect the Democrats to act and just get into that. So stay tuned for that. But first, we wanna thank our sponsor American financing stew. I know that you had a really good experience with American financing people that are really nice. They're really responsive. If you're going into by new home denotes, a huge decision to figure out what mortgage are gonna use. And they really walk me through all the options. They were able to give me all the details. I going for really shady loans. That's kind of my my way of loan shark that didn't recommend a loan shark. But they of like walk through reasons why they thought maybe that loan was not a good idea for me. However, when they found found one other place that had kite was able to give me the the type of mortgage I was looking for. And they said, honestly, like if if you can get that deal from somebody somebody will give you that deal. You should just go for it. They actually took my business and said, no go over there. Instead. Yeah. I mean, that's you don't know really get that of someone who's giving you alone or or selling you alone. Right. This is it's not giving it's your borrowing money, and you're paying interest for it. So you should get what you need. I mean, it's your, you know, it's not a gift that they're giving you right? And I will also add my favorite part about them as that they're not commission based so to me, that's huge. Because that tells you they're not in it for the money anytime I deal with any other mortgage company. I'm like, okay, you're trying to sell me. So you can make a buck off of me. That's not how they are at American financing. So if you are in the market go to American financing dot net or you can call eight hundred nine zero six two four four zero. All right before we get into a preview of the state of the union what we all expect to happen. Or what we want to happen might I present to you guys state of the union bingo card, so for those of you watching Glynn tweet us out. Talking about on radio today. I will I will try to get a copy of this in it out. So that you guys can print a copy easily and play along with us. But we've got Nancy Pelosi. I rolls in there. We've got border security. Oh, man. That's going to be a big one CNN. I mean, I would doubt that he would let state of the union go by without mentioning CNN. If you get a little dick, but I agree with you. I'm just saying what to expect from President Trump. I mean, I don't know. We'll do it loving less. Time was pretty traditional. Remember anything from last time, which tells me that nothing really deviant occurred. The North Korea part was like I'll never forget that. I don't think he'll be able to top that moment member. When the guy that lost an arm and leg, and he had escaped and they had member that he was holding up the the crutches. Yeah. That's the only experience I can ever remember from a state of the union that actually the I remember that. There was the wife of one of the soldiers that was the wife of someone who passed away powerful as well. He did very well with those stories, and you're seeing now the rumors are he's got about three dozen people. They're just like that guy. Did this this girl that this? She did that ninety percent of the speech that worked very well for my time, and they were really nice moments and praised by everybody. I think so make sure to not your bingo cards at play along with us should be fun. But in all seriousness, Stu what do you expect to see from Trump tonight? You don't think that he will be combative you think he will be buttoned up? Yes. I think he really likes the fact that he got. Lot of sort of universal praise for moments and that so I think he will do a lot. He's gonna hit the to the typical themes you'd think Trump would hit. Unfortunately, probably will not hit my favorite hashtag of make the state of the union a letter again, that's probably not going to happen. Yes. It is. He walked in handed. The letter to Nancy Pelosi. I bid you good day that platform. That's the problem. He wants it too bad. I mean, he want he wants it to badly. You know, Trump loves this. And and why he caved when it came to dealing with Pelosi last time which tried to block him, and he was thinking about doing it somewhere else. He likes this. He likes the stage. He likes the pageantry. He likes the pomp and circumstance at some level. I happen to be more of a pomp guy, myself, not as much circumstance hate circumstance. But I mean, I I would like to see something bold here. And I don't I just don't know for to see I've mentioned term limits is I thought would be a really good thing for him to go after it's universally popular with Republican independent and democratic voters. It's more popular than the wall is with Republican voters. That's how popular it is. You know, he's got a deal with them. Trump's gotta deal with term loves why doesn't every other crappy? Congressman that's been there for forty years. Why don't they have to deal with it? I think that would be a great one to do. There's a constitutional amendment on the table already to to do it. I I would love to see something. Bold like that. I mean him making the case yet again for the wall. I just don't know how that's going to be effective. He's going to try to bring out the rumors are he's going to bring out in a couple of victims of crime from a legal immigration. And it's true. I mean people have been victims of crime, I just feel like he's done this before. And I I don't know if you can be able to move the needle on something like that. Jason what do you think? My biggest thing when I think about the state of the union is that I wish that it wasn't happening. I same moves you. I wish it was a letter eight o'clock tonight. It's just painful, but the. The first of all I can think of nothing more hellish than early morning state of the union address. Five of the union address. I would become a socialist boy that very true, but that's my bit. And that's from that looks binge-watching time. So it was like from six to seven it'd be all about it. But now you're getting into my Netflix. But the other thing is he missed a when he caved and didn't do the state of the union last week. He missed historic opportunity. I mean, he could been a huge political win by saying screw that went down to the border. I mean, you can only imagine the backdrop to that. Every national news agency would have covered it. It would have been just like the state of the union, and he could have had an awesome message like look congress one. They wanna hear this for me. That's fine. I they're not gonna do anything. Anyway, not gonna listen. So I'm taking it directly to you. It would have been epic. It'd been a huge political win should last week. So we get the same boring junk that we always get. I I don't think that there's the reason I'm saying is I don't think it's gonna make a difference. There's no reaching across the aisle anymore. They're really not he'll make a very impassioned case. And part of it for the wall. He might even bring out some families like. That have been victims. But even though he'll say that, you know, these are victims of of the out of control immigration and crime. The other side will say while you're just saying you're just calling every single immigrant criminal again. You know what? I mean, there's no winning either side. So you're talking about the actual lawmakers. But what do you think about the American people, even those who are Democrats, they will find any sort of, you know, reasonable is that their leaders should be having. I don't think so I think everyone's entrenched in their own corner at this point. And I think that the polls still show the vast amount America does are not the vast amount. But a majority of Americans don't agree with the wall. Many of us do I haven't to be one of the ones that do agree with all. But the majority of Americans don't agree with the wall. But I don't think you're not gonna find this one moment that's going to tip the needle either way it really is kind of sad and depressing state of American politics. Really? That's polarized. We are where even something like this. It doesn't matter. If you have a Reagan up there. I don't think you know, that's gonna make this very very, awesome speech. I don't think it turned. It moves. Needle anymore. Part part of that though is the the needles not going to be turned in part. Just because not that many Americans are gonna watch the state of the union address. It actually doesn't like it's we are because we're nerds. And and then like I'm not a nerd, I just do it for my job. Right. Okay. Yeah. But like, you weirdly, I take that as a healthy thing because I I would much rather that Americans be like stated bunch of politicians bloviating and getting standing ovations versus breaking bad like go with breaking bad. I think that the the trouble with that though is if they're not watching it. But then they're only getting snippets from you know, CNN or someone like that. He very well could be taken off context. They're gonna play the most negative. You know quotes that they can think we can predict that right now. Right. No that's going to happen. Make sure they wash CNN either. I mean, the problem is so many there'd be half of the electorate next time. We'll have absolutely no idea what any of these opinions any of these issues are in any sort of detail. It's not that they're not they're skipping one speech is there and they're check getting on CNN the next day. That's a highly informed American. That's actually even watch the highlights. I mean, most people just don't care about this. And they they shouldn't have to you know. I mean, I come to that a lot of you know, it shouldn't be something that dominates our lives. Politics is is is part of life. And getting the government out of my face is something I do prefer. However, even with the government at the levels that it's at now. I mean, I still enjoy my life, and I still enjoy my family. So I mean, it shouldn't be something that's going to overwhelm sweep. But we have to keep vigilant. Because if we don't if the nerds, and the people who aren't nerds could do it for work don't stand up and actually. She's a hot nerd, and if the hot nerds don't step up and the other less attractive nerds don't step up steps up. And then they Jason. So how long do we have while the government three two more weeks for the fifteenth? Yeah. Not even yet again. So what happens then you guys have any predictions? I it we're just going to be stuck with the same dog and pony show again. Yes. So I mean, I don't know that Trump is gonna be able to get the wall. Trump won the election partially because he was the only one who is willing to say while while while while while while while wall, and he kept saying it, and then, you know, the Republicans got control of everything and the became kind of on the back burner. He'd use it rallies, and such but didn't really go after it. He's now used it so much that even if they actually legitimately secured the border and did a great job on the border, but didn't use a wall to him. I think it's a loss. So he's all they have to do to get anything out of him is just not giving. All right. So they could easily it said of giving him five point seven billion dollars for the wall. Get something huge from given one billion dollars for the wall. And he'll have to he'll have to take it. He's put himself in a terrible negotiating physician, which I thought was the one thing we're supposed to void with this president. He really is. Because he has made it such a do or die thing to get this wall. And nothing else will suffice. They know what's the one thing. They can hold back. And now that have control of the house, they can do it. I mean, if you really wanted to get this done he needed to push when they had Republican control. And they didn't it was not a big priority at that time. And now, you're gonna point where you really can't get it unless you give up something that I don't think is going to be worth it. I generally think physical barriers in certain places is a useful thing. And I think you know, I think it would help. However, it's gin two thirds of immigrants illegal immigrants are here that didn't come over the border. Anyway, there's still going to be people who get by it. Yes, I think it would help. But we it's become this like Endo someone I heard it on some news broadcasts. They they call it basically hits his trophy like it is no longer about the wall and protecting people. It's about he has to have this thing. He keeps saying he needs. It's his goal. It's just this constant desire and be doesn't get it. He loses. I mean, if this is about the American people in protecting them. That's not the truth. We could we can secure it in a million different ways. And if the Democrats cared enough to to participate in that there should be a compromise position. This used to be a position they supported. So I I I don't think he's going to be able to move the needle on that. And and comfort where fifteenth I think there is a chance that the politics of it are so bad to go back into shutdown again that he may start losing Republicans support. But that's the only thing I think that that makes him change at this point. He has to have his people come out to say, no, I'm not going to support you anymore. Do you think that it could get disastrous enough that that the Senate would pivot on him because I'm McConnell starting to buck him the in terms of things like so I I wonder if if it starts influencing like, we're the the Republican senators are getting in trouble. I can see them going. Listen, we're all gonna come together. And we we are going to vote on a budget that works. We've got enough people to override a veto. The Republicans have been kept kept in lineup because they like Trump is because they fear Trump. And if the Pay's fear his the power that is behind that fear. From the people who support him if people support him start to bail on him that power goes away, and the Republicans are they don't have a spine on anything. They will not have a spine sticking with Trump either. Once they don't fear him. We're still far away from an election. I think he's still got a lot of wiggle room. If you went back into a shut down, it wouldn't be the end of the world. But I don't know that he wants to do it. I mean, I I don't think he sees at some point he stopped seeing the win at the end of that. I don't know where the win is because they can just hold it back, and it's always his fault. And it's you know, that's politically a really tough position for him to be. We gotta take a break. But I going into break. Let's take a look at the Democrats mindset going into the state of the union. Looks at. You says momma, look, you one bullies don't win. And I said baby they don't because we're going to go in there rent impeach the is impeachable. A lot of people don't wanna talk about that. But I do wants to be impeached at this point I wasn't necessarily for impeachment until recently. But I think you have to go ahead and do it. I know it's pretty hard to convict. But if you don't do it with him where is the bar? Do you still think the president should be impeached? Absolutely impeachment would actually allow him to at least do what he loves which is to be a snowflake and for ten he's the victim, and the Democrats this, and that we shouldn't be teaching for a political reason this president needs to be impeached should avoid peach mint for a political reason just have to see how it comes. I'm just hopeful that the Republicans will stand up and accept their responsibility. Call it out call in for what it is help the American people. To know that they will not stand for him. And what he's doing and join me it a peach mint, please don't say twitted anymore. They I say. My colleagues the leadership would not like to hear me say the I work, but I say it over and over again impeachment feature minute Pete's the most important thing this country can do now isn't peaches president you guys. We're going to be in a situation where you would have to take vote on the peach Madan Trump would you vote yesterday? I would vote. Yes. I would go to what on what basis because I believe he's committed a crime and people who commit crimes need to be impeached out impeachment. Do you want to respond to that? That concern you that concern the president doesn't know it doesn't consider the president. Before we get into that crazy crazy impeachment rant that. We just saw one of our sponsor relief factor. So I forgot to take my early factor yesterday. And my son was really sick, and I slept as you know, crazy worried. Mom, does you'd probably call me a helicopter mom, I slept on his floor in his room because I wanted to make sure that I was there to monitor him if he woke up, and I could not get up this morning. My my entire body was so sore, and I was just like oh rug on the rug. I wrapped myself in a padded blanket and thought like I'm still young. It's fine. I don't feel fine. Same thing for me when my wife kicked me out of the bedroom onto the couch. I wake up with a stiff Nick, but what she knows. I got my three week quickstart back. There you go. Well, I forgot to take mine yesterday. And I was so upset this morning. And I'm still feeling it today. But the folks that relief factor have developed this one. Percent natural. So it's drug-free pills that you take and it works for me works for Glenn. I know that it's worked for Jason. It targets the inflammation in your body. So you think that the pain is coming from, you know, well, it's my muscle while it's okay? But if you're inflamed, that's what's usually causing the pain. Seventy percent of the people who buy this three week quickstart. Quick start pack for nineteen ninety-five go onto keep purchasing it. It's working. It's working for the majority of people can work for you. If you're looking for a way to get out of pain, go to relief factor dot com. Hung up on Jason. He thinks he's getting his wife when he got his own bedroom is in pain because I got her I'm taking I'm taking relief factor too. Little victor. All right. So I want to kind of dig into the clip that we just watched because there was a lot going on there. And there were a lot of accusations being hurled, I didn't really see any evidence purported as to why Trump should be impeached or what crime he could have possibly committed to. It's really just a statement of it's virtue signal right for the left just as the more. You'll say impeachment better democrat. You are right. That's certainly where I think 'cause you Cortez's and Maxine Waters is just insane. She'll say about anything, I think she's clearly getting applause every time. She says it like, even if you could tell like, and I think this is even a Maxine Waters as politicians are attracted to applause like like moths to a flame. So if you're doing something that you're base loves you're going to gravitate towards. Yeah. I think that's true. I mean, look is there a case for impeachment certainly not now where like the Miller report hasn't been released at some point. We'll come out we can look at the evidence. And maybe who knows they'll have video of Donald Trump walking into Ladimir, Putin's office and. Handing him the last copy of the constitution. I don't know what will find. But at some point that evidence will come out. And if there's an impeachment case in there, then that I think most rational Americans will look at it and say gosh, that's really bad. That's a crime or hey, that's nothing. Right. The politicians are going to do what they do. But the impeachable only happen from the left if they think it's politically beneficial to do it Maxine Waters is super far left Aqazadeh Cortez super far left. It is beneficial to their base. Right. Nancy pelosi. I mean, I think she sees the bigger picture of I wanna win. I wanna win elections. I wanna hold the house. I don't wanna look like I'm just attacking this man unfairly because if I do then it'll come back not because he he she does not care about him at all. And she does not care about what is right in due process. But she does care about winning the next election. So she will only do it. If there's a really, I think obvious case in something, you know, where they think it's going to benefit them, politically it'd be all about hearing case for impeachment if they actually made one like if the president did some. Thing that warrants it. I wanna know about it. And I don't want him to be president. If it's true. And I think what you said of the rational Americans would all I think agree with that. But the problem is especially when they say these things in public forums or interviews most of the time, they get these softball questions, and they don't like actually hold them to these accusations. So they're they're able to use you know, impeachment as Gibson Yellen freedom. When. Aw. But run what grounds. Like, can you make a case for obstruction? Maybe I don't know. That's the only thing I think of that. Maybe they have their own little focus group and the DNC somewhere, and they've already made the case for obstruction. I I don't know. I haven't heard anything. But if it's as simple as like, like, if the BuzzFeed thing that came out to be this now disputed or actually said was not true. If that was true I'd be all about the case for impeachment because he told someone to lie in court to congress, that's an impeachable offense. Now, there's things like that. I'm all about hearing the case. But you can't just be like I was surprised van Jones actually said gay would sort of supporting teach -ment. Yes. On what grounds usually right at that. And I think that that's you know, if you think about all the reports that have come out there have been some that have proven to be accurate and some like the Trump Tower meeting and the the Trump Moscow letter of intent and some of these things that were rumored for a while turn out to be true some of them like the BuzzFeed story, you mentioned looks like it's not true. But the bottom line of that. Is with the exception of probably that one BuzzFeed story, even the things that have just been rumored haven't risen to the level of impeachment. We haven't even seen a report yet that shows that he had committed a crime that the only thing is this Cohen lie to he's he was supposedly told co into lie to congress, which the Muller investigation came out publicly and said didn't occur. So I mean, I don't even if you believe things that aren't completely disproved yet. And just holding a glimmer of hope, I don't see where this is there are there are people that committed crimes, it does seem that way that Roger stone Manafort, and there's there's definitely people who have done some things wrong over their lives. But I don't see what they have here. I don't think there's anything. And so before we go to break, I just want to you know, Democrats are talking about impeachment on one hand. Let's hear a little bit of what they themselves are proposing. Proud of the successes that we've had in recent years in pushing a progressive agenda health careful from this moment on New York City. Everyone is guaranteed the right to health care if you're not healthy enough to go to that job, finish your education. Raise your family, universal healthcare. The ability for everyone to see a doctor has not had that situation where you gotta wait for a provable. And the doctor says, well, I don't know if your insurance company's gonna cover this. Let's limit all of that. Let's move on raising the minimum wage to fifteen bucks. Minimum wage is no longer a living wage, it's a poverty wage, and I'll tell you one thing for sure. We win the election in the first one hundred hours, we will pass a fifteen dollars public colleges and universities tuition free. No matter where you are born should have access to a college or traits education into wealthy. Stop paying me official taxes tippy tops on your ten million dollar. I sometimes you see tax rates is sixty or seventy percent has climbed up this ladder. You should be contributing more views. Ali which appear years ago seemed to be radical ideas, and kind of mainstream ideas, radical means call me radical. In case you missed it earlier. We have special state of the union coverage going on tonight. I feel like it's going to be all night it I know Jason said that he's pretty old. He can't hang pass like eight PM, but the rest of us will be watching enjoining in for state of the union hosted by Eric Bolling, and it's going to be on TV. We're taking down the pay wall. So that you can view that for free. It's also going to be on YouTube live and Facebook live. There's no reason not to miss it and bonus we have a bingo card. So I mean, do you have a bingo card? No, they're just going to bash Trump the whole time. We've got a really fun bingo card that you can you can follow along with us. You can play. Bingo. I mean, bring the kids in. It's a family affair, but we will have special guests. Blaze TV host Glenn Beck. Of course, he left us to go to DC because he's cooler than us. I guess and gets invited to the state of the union, Mark. Win. We are going to hear from Phil Robertson. We've got John Miller. He's going to be live inside the capitol. Nate Madden is our congressional correspondent also going to be in the capital alley study. We've got Ben Ferguson Steve dais. I will be looking at the social media tonight. So send us your questions. Your comments hashtag, blaze TV, S O T you, and we will try to get to as many of those as we can come on. We've got say to the union coverage. Eric is going to be at a Trump hotel bar. You can't go wrong with that. You can't go wrong with that. So tune in. It is seven thirty eastern six thirty central and we will see you guys. Then. Thanks for listening to the news, white matters. We hope you enjoyed the podcast if you'd like to watch the program become a blaze TV subscriber. And start your free trial now at blaze, TV dot com.

president President Trump Jason buttery CNN Senate Eric Bolling congress US Glenn Beck congressman Cossio Cortez John Miller Iraq DC Trump Nancy Pelosi YouTube Facebook
Saudi Arabia admits death of Washington Post columnist; Intelligence services deputy dismissed, 18 Saudi nationals detained; Trump doesn't regret praising congressman for assaulting reporter: "Any guy that can do a body-slam, he's my kind of.... guy."

Erin Burnett OutFront

45:37 min | 2 years ago

Saudi Arabia admits death of Washington Post columnist; Intelligence services deputy dismissed, 18 Saudi nationals detained; Trump doesn't regret praising congressman for assaulting reporter: "Any guy that can do a body-slam, he's my kind of.... guy."

"Support for out front comes from our friends at rocket mortgage by Quicken Loans who were excited to introduce their all new rate shield approval. If you're in the market to buy a home rate, shield approval is a real game changer. And here's why I quick and loans will lock your rate for up to ninety days while you shop. But here's the crucial part. If rates go up your rate stays the same. But if rates go down your rate also drops either way you win. It's the kind of thinking you'd expect from America's largest mortgage lender to get started. Go to rocketmortgage dot com. Slash out front line. It's Lisa Ling. I am so excited about the season. We explore such a diverse array of topics. So please join me another incredible journey. This is life with Lisa Ling Sundays at ten pm on CNN. Next breaking news, the Saudis making a major announcement tonight, admitting after weeks of denials, at the Washington Post contributor is dead. What will President Trump do now and Trump doubling down on his praise for Republican who body slammed a reporter. His allies say he was just joking was he was a caravan of thousands of migrants have made their way to Mexico tonight. The president says they're headed to the United States. Next is it just fearmongering let's off front. Evening, everyone. I'm Kate Baldwin in for Erin Burnett out front tonight. We do have breaking news in a major admission tonight from Saudi Arabia after seventeen days, state TV. Finally, confirming what the world already expected, Washington Post contributor, Jamal cookie is dead. The government, the Saudi government also revealing that eighteen Saudi nationals have been arrested in connection with this and this man, we'll show you Major General models. Alice Serey. The deputy of the intelligence services has been dismissed relieved of his duties. He's a close adviser to Saudi Arabia's crown prince Mohammad bin Salman. This all comes after Saudi Arabia for weeks denied any involvement in his mysterious disappearance. But we now know according to Saudi Arabia that he was killed after what they claim was a fight inside their consulate in Istanbul. But so many questions remain. What ruled the crown prince play in. This is any of this. Near the details coming out true or just a cover story tonight. Let's get to some answers. Clerks award is out front, live and Angara Turkey for us. Clarisa. What more are you hearing from the Saudi government tonight? Well, I think the most significant thing that we probably heard tonight Kate in this news bulletin is that not just general theory, but another man solid. Al Qahtani has been dismissed. He has been relieved of his duties. This is as high as it gets other than the crown prince. He is one of the top three most senior closest advisors to the crown prince. He is the man who has sort of spearheaded on Twitter, sort of ugly propaganda campaign against people who speak out against the kingdom. And he is a very senior important man in Saudi Arabia. He has been dismissed of his duties. Obviously, the Saudis are hoping that on some level, this will deflect or shield the crown prince. But I do want to point out to you that our Tim Lister actually found a tweet that was written by sowed Kettani a year ago in which he said, do you think? I think without orders, I am an employee. I carry out. Orders from my king and my crown print. So if the Saudis are hoping tonight that they have created some distance that they have created a plausible story whereby some rogue elements or sowed Kettani ordered this operation without the comp- crown prince knowing about it south Catani's own words would appear to contradict that one other thing Kate the, we're hearing that's interesting. The wording of exactly what happened to Jamal alka shook g when he went in to the Saudi consulate according to the statement today, they said that he was interrogated that there was some kind of a physical altercation. I'm being told by sources very close to the world court that they're preparing to issue a kind of correction or a clarification. Rather to say that it was some kind of a choke hold that there was some kind of an interrogation and then he was strangled, and that apparently is how he was killed, though. It's anyone's guess as to whether this will be enough to satisfy the international community, the American people. And of course, the Turkish authorities here. Here where the dreadful murder took place, Kate. Absolutely, right. So much more to learn tonight. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I want to go now though to the White House, Pamela Brown is their family, the president promised severe punishment. If it turned out that Jamal Kush shook, she was killed by the hand by by by the Saudis, what does the president? What does the president do now? And that's a big question. We know that the White House is monitoring the situation. We haven't heard an official response, but the president said earlier today that within the next couple of days, perhaps by Monday that we would have more answers, the who, what win and wear in terms of what exactly happened, whether there would be severe consequences. The question is, how does that square with what we're hearing from the Saudis now that they've developed this commission and that it could take a month to investigate and to release a report on this. Also, the question is how the president responded the action taken by the Saudis. Of course, the dismissal of the high ranking intelligence official who was close. Adviser to the crown prince. The president's own intelligence officials believe that it's highly unlikely Ford operation like this to have taken place without the knowledge of the crown prince. And so that is still an open question. Did he know, was he involved as the intelligence officials believe? And it's hard to believe the president hasn't been briefed on that, but what is also clear Kate is that the president is walking this fine line here because he wants to preserve the relationship with Saudi Arabia. He said it today. He said, there are great ally of ours. It's clear that the arms deals very important to the president, the partnership with Iran with Syria, very important as well. And so this could be a big test for the president and how he responds. Absolutely. All right, Pam, thank you so much. Really appreciate it out front with me now is democratic congressman, Gerry Connolly of Virginia. He sits on the house foreign affairs committee. Congressman. Thank you for coming in Jamaica shook was your constituent. He lived in Virginia. Your reaction tonight for first and foremost to the Saudis? Finally, confirming that he is dead. Well, it's amazing that it took two weeks of lying and subterfuge for the Saudi government to finally admit, well, yes, he died and he died at their hands and in our consulate. Now they're engaged in a cover up to protect the crown prince, and we'll see how that works for them. But I, I call this another nice try because there is no way this kind of premeditated operation could conceivably have happened in the Saudi consulate without the knowledge of and approval of the crown prince. And then what do you make of the fact that the reporting coming from my colleagues overseas tonight is that they, they're putting together basically a group to issue a report in a month, and the person heading up this investigative group is the crown prince himself NBA, right? I, I think that's the surefire sign. The cover up is underway and and you know, the Turkish government and Turkish intelligence community has been very helpful in leaking details of what in fact, they know all of which have pretty much been confirmed so far and they're the ones don't be. Get who said not only was there a dispute. He was tortured before he was killed and after he was killed, he was then dismembered. So this wasn't some rogue operation where got out of hand. This was premeditated. Fifteen individuals, fluid Turkey with a, you know, malice aforethought. They knew what they were doing and there's no way given who they were and given a how they came into Turkey this no way they would have done this without the clear knowledge of and approval of the crown prince. And indeed there intercepts apparently the the intelligence communities have that the crown prince was actively engaged in plotting at least the abduction of Mr. kashogi congressman. You do not believe what's coming out, what's coming out of the Saudi side? Absolutely not. Do you go leave, then you call it a cover up. Do you believe that the general that they believe general. Oil mala. Siri? Do you think this is? He's just the fall guy. I think that's exactly what's going on. It's almost like a classic mafia operation. It's tragic to watch and tragic to comprehend the consequences. But as your earlier reporter just said, you know, I take that gentleman was quoted as saying, I take my orders from the king and the crown prince. I don't use independent judgment before I act, and I think that's exactly how the Saudis system works. It's a very is both consensual in terms of the Royal family, but hierarchy Arkle in terms of this crown prince and how the system works. So congressman, I think maybe now very quickly. The most important question is what does President Trump do? What what do you want to hear from him now? Wouldn't it be nice if we had a president who actually held murderers. To account instead with US resident that there will be severe punishment, severe consequences. If it is shown that the Saudis myrrh, he was killed at the hands of the Saudis. You know what? Yeah. I think that's a throwaway line for President Trump. He's also said, we can't jeopardize one hundred ten billion dollars in arms sales. This is important relationship. We need their oil. They, they were going to prevent secretary munching from going to Davos in the desert Saudi conference of the future. It's other Rabia. Yeah, because of our distaste for what has happened. And now now we learn owing. What? What? What does congress congress can act? Yes, we'll congress act. Yes, I believe we will. I think there is sufficient bipartisan, horror, and revulsion at what has taken place and clarity about who did it, and that I think congress is going to take punitive measures. The the range of, you know, on that menu is everything from arm sales to sanctions to financial cutoffs in terms of it's a national banking as a starters, but south, the Saudis have to be held to account and we're not going to settle for cover first things. First, I think everyone is interested to hear what President Trump has to say after this report coming out congressman. Thank you for coming in. I appreciate your time. Thank you out front. Next, the president says that he doesn't regret raising phrasing rather the Republican congressman for body slamming a journalist, this as his defenders, say that he was just joking who is laughing tonight. Plus Paul Manafort import in wheelchair as we learned the Muller team is still not done with them. Plus dramatic pictures from Mexico is thousands of migrants make their way north, the bis caravan drive Republicans to the polls. 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President Trump is doubling down praising Republican, congressman, Greg, Gianforte 's assault on a reporter. Do you regret bringing up last night at your rally? The assault on Twitter by congressman vote. Different world that was a different league a different world. Now, it's just a great guy. No regrets for this comment at a rally last night. Any guys that can do a body slam. He's Mike. Now he's a great guy, tough cookie, and the president's allies saying it's no big deal. He wasn't the guy who body slammed day, but he can. He can have fun. President son says it was fun Republican, congressman, Steve squeezed tweeting. This President Trump was clearly ribbon congressman John forte for last year's incident, which he apologized for last year. Scalise went on to say it clearly was a joke in his words, but the incident was no joke. It actually resulted in an actual assault charge in this few to remind you is audio of that assault in may of last year. It's not gonna be Gary supply chain, please. The Latin, you did the same thing, get the hell is. Get the hell is. Yes. Gianforte was sentenced to forty hours of community service, twenty hours of anger management, three hundred dollar fine along with an eighty, five dollars court fee after all of this. If this was just a joke, what then is all of this from Trump from the campaign and beyond. Knock the crap out of what you seriously. Okay. Just knocked the hell. I promise you I will pay for the legal fees. I promise. I love the old days. You know what they used to do to guys like that when they were in a place like this, they'd be carried out at a stretcher folks like the punch him in the face. I'll tell you maybe should have been roughed up. Out front tonight. Mark lottery is a former special assistant to to President Trump. He's currently working with the Trump reelect campaign. Jen Psaki is here former White House communications director under President. Obama and Patrick Healey is politics editor for the New York Times. Thanks for coming in and appreciate it. Patrick, the president isn't isn't thinking twice about this, it should it surprise anyone? No, not at all. He likes this kind of thuggish talk thuggish behaviour. I mean, he seems to almost get off on it at his rallies. He feels like it whips up the crowd. It's sort of his form of red. Meat. Mean look is both a candidate when he was running for president, and now as president. He uses this kind of violent language violent imagery at his rallies. That is like nothing. Honestly, nothing we have ever seen in American politics. We've seen it in other countries, some whipping people up in the frenzy, but we've seen nothing like it here in the in the notion that this is all a joke in this is somehow, oh, it's sort of funny and liberals get so upset. You know, we're, we're just Kim. Kidding. We've seen this kind of behavior, whether making fun of a disabled, New York Times, reporter, mocking women, you know, calling, you know, calling a start me Daniels by horseface. I mean in this notion that the Republican party even after all these years still doesn't know how to just sort of condemn him or take some kind of moral stand on it. But instead, you know, either says, I'll always just kidding or, you know, it's, I mean, we saw during the campaign people like Paul, Ryan and Mitch McConnell leaders in the party who said, things were unacceptable. And now it's just so afraid of crossing him. They just enable it Mark, we can't afford. It was charged. He pleaded guilty qualifies, especially given now the murder of another journalist, the timing is part of this. Can you make an honest case? This is funny right now. And I'll say I was a journalist, I started my career right out of college trading to be a journalist and then serving more than a dozen years in television newsrooms locally around the country. And I have, I have a high regard for journalism, but let's let's also not pretend that this is a one sided thing. We saw to congress congressional candidates in Minnesota attack this week. Both conservatives we've seen we've seen other examples including the shooting about a year ago of congressman ska lease. We. We've got a problem with Americans not being able to to have a discussion anymore about areas where they disagree without making it personal and in some cases, as we've seen in in recent weeks here in Washington DC, where we had violent clashes with protesters who disagreed over the confirmation of Justice cabinet. I mean, I would say civilities lost baby on both sides, but does that. I mean, I say it every time two wrongs don't make a right though. Right? Mark. I mean, do you think there was anything funny about what the president is saying? I think the prisoner. Was riffing last night, the timing, obviously because of what's going on with Saudi Arabia was not ideal, but I still take that as being a riff in the meantime, though, just as well yesterday we had on another network, a Hollywood entertainer, wanting the military to stage a coup at the White House. You had a Washington Post columnist, calling it a good idea while a couple of hosts on MSNBC we're laughing about it. These are dangerous times, dangerous rhetoric Marnie shouldn't be doing this. It's the president of the United States. Let's just say it's a first among equals in this regard and for a long time in the country, Lee look to the president United States to sort of set the tone for something, and it's just, you know, it's well I get in on this. How do you wanna get your take now? Look, I think there's a couple of strong issues with what how President Trump is admitted behaving. One of them is, as Pat said at the beginning, the world is watching and what the president of the United States says matters and what the United States says about freedom of. And speech, whether it's the the horrific issues happening, Saudi Arabia or President Trump laughing about or repeating the the abuse that congressman partook on on a reporter. It's completely irresponsible and it's not a joking manner, irresponsible and the like. Like what Markle saying? I was gonna say on the thing what Mark said, it's a really irresponsible combination of events, the vast, vast majority of protests on the other side have been peaceful. They have been kneeling. They have been people, women protesting. Brett Cavanaugh becoming a confirmed to the supreme court. It is not the same thing. If you were an elected official, people are allowed to come to your office and protest your actions. We that's a democracy and that's something we should support. So I am appalled that we can't. That shouldn't be a partisan issue that we can't all agree that prompting violence against journalists or people who are speaking out, isn't something that should not be a part of our society, and it's perplexing wouldn't. There wouldn't be brought agreement on that. I also wonder Mark kind of going from a different kind from a different vantage point. Why can Republicans say that Trump is not saying anything dangerous in what he's doing his riffing, but then. Kratz bear saying as dangerous while I think there's a difference between riffing as we saw last night in the air holder saying when Republicans go low, kick them or Hillary Clinton say there's no. I mean, honestly with that was that wasn't a riff. He was actually making the comet encouraging people to riff president courage, anyone that's night. This is the difference. The difference is Mark that I don't think that air colder should have said that, and I don't think most Democrats are advocating for violence. What you're saying is that both sides are equal. That's absolutely inaccurate. The president of the United States sitting in the Oval Office and having the biggest megaphone in the country projecting to the world that violence against reporters in the media is acceptable. And what? What message are we sending when we have not encouraged violence last night he was he was talking about something that happened a year ago, and there was an apology for what you had was Eric Holder going out and encouraging future violence. City arrested. Let me play with air colder. Listen. They go low, we, you cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for, what you care about. The people are gonna turn on them. They're gonna protest. They got up absolutely harassed them until they decide that they're going to tell the president. No, I can't hang with you. There was this all the same Mark. I think I think there is a definite difference in what you saw coming from some of those democrat leaders as opposed to what you saw last night coming from the president of the United States talking about a congressional Cain and his activity that he apologized and pled guilty to doing. And so I think we all need to dial it back a little bit on the rhetoric on both sides and remember that as Americans we can disagree, but we still have to be agreeable when we're doing honestly. Good luck with that Mark. I mean, again, one one reoccurring theme if you will is that when the president says something that isn't acceptable, I hear that it's a joke. Just listen to this. The president was clearly joking with his comments. He was poking fun and making a joke. If he was making a joke. Is this is this all? We just can't take a joke. Well, no, I think first of all, it's very difficult to explain some of the statements. Many of the statements the president of the United States is made when he was running for office and since then and many of his staffers, they probably don't look at what he said. Hopefully last night or in many other Cajun's and think that was a positive statement or something they would support and they don't know what else to say. I understand why they're doing that because I'm not sure what else there would be, but really this should be condemned across the board and you know the truth is even if they don't agree with it, they're still working for him. So all right guys. Thanks so much appreciate it out front next President Trump on the on the thousands of migrants. Now making their way north. It's getting to be an election of the caravan. You know what I'm talking about. Plus Russian national charged with attempting to interfere in the two thousand eighteen midterm elections. Why was the president so quick then to defend himself. Mike, you can a wall of the hackers and all of the everybody that you see nothing to do with Mike campaign. Hey, Howard Beck, and I've got to buy us Harrison the clippers on Bleacher reports, the old forty, eight guys about seventy percent vegan base or plan base in every now. And then I give myself the freedom that if I want to go fish, which I do like I keep it open for myself. The full forty eight is now available on Spotify. And of course you can always listen subscribe all the Bleacher report app, apple podcasts, or where ever you listen to podcasts. Hey, ass unfolding tonight as a massive caravan of Honduran. Migrants reached the water Malla Mexico border. We just got these new pictures and and look at that. They are powerful thousands of migrants making their way to Mexico. Just look at that bridge even breaking through a steel fence that had been padlocked shut Mexican police in riot gear, trying to push them back in math. This comes as President Trump makes this prediction. It's going to be an election of the caravan. You know what I'm talking about out front. Now, Ben Ferguson host of the Ben Ferguson radio show and Maria Cardona democratic strategist, Maria. Let me start with you. The president says the election will be the election of the caravan. When you see these pictures as they're coming in, can you argue the immigration is going to be the issue? Well, we can certainly not be surprised that President Trump is trying to use the humanitarian crisis. That is what this caravan is. As these people are fleeing violence and certain death from their own home countries to use fear to inject into his base because he is absolutely concerned about the midterms. He knows that the that the the air is not at Republicans back that the wind is not at their back and he's trying to use everything that he can, which includes fearmongering to scare a Americans about. About these migrants when in fact, it's a humanitarian crisis and what we need to do is focus on trying to find real solutions and not focus on trying to inject fear when all these people are doing or trying to find a better life at from their home countries, then it's not all the that's not all that the president said about about the caravan. Let me tell you what else he said. As you know, I'm willing to send the military to defend our southern border if necessary. Toes because of the illegal immigration onslaught brought by the Democrats because they refuse to acknowledge or to change the laws. They like it. They also figure everybody coming in. It's going to vote democrat. He doubled down on that today. There's really no evidence to support the idea that Democrats are behind the caravan. Why does the president? I wonder, why does the president need to go there? Does he not have strong argument on immigration without making stuff up. I don't think he's making stuff up. There's many Democrats that online have openly talked about. The last caravan that came into this country is coming to this country that they wanted to donate money and help them at the border and help bring them across the border and support them financially when they got to this country. So I don't think the presence making anything up. The second thing is, let's stop calling these people migrants when they are illegal immigrants that are breaking down fences and gates to break into this country. I'm so tired of people acting as if somehow this is some, you know, normal way of life to break into countries breakthrough gates to go after police in Mexico. This has people that are breaking laws not just in America. If they get here, they're breaking laws and Mexico they have, no, they have absolutely no respect for the laws of Mexico or the laws, the United States of America. So let's call them what they are. These are lawbreakers who are legal immigrants right now in Mexico who would also be a legal immigrants in America. We have a right to protect, defend our border and to act as if Democrats aren't helping support them with aid and tried to turn this into humanitarian effort. When it's clearly of school, it asks you here. We're seeing it on TV. They're breaking into the country, so that's absolutely ridiculous. That democrat, it's not ridiculous that you just showed the breaking hit and interrupt you. Let me talk. Okay. Democrats are not funding. These caravans that is just an absolute outright lie, and instead were so there more then let me talk. Let me let me talk and that that goes to my point about how desperate this president is to deflect on what is going on in the actual midterm elections, where people are concerned about Republicans taking away their healthcare and Republicans giving huge tax breaks to the richest people in the country Inc toward the Trump Trump does. Not one does not want to talk about that. So he focuses on this humanitarian crisis, instead of focus being focused on solutions. Democrats are not funding this caravan. These people are looking for a Silom Ben, and I'm glad you don't know this as agent. Here in crisis. You have no clue with these people go through Ben and conflict. What is going on on doors is is currently humanitarian does some of these again. So. So let me let me ask you this, the fact that you're otherwise means you're you're saying, I mean, finish. Okay. Let me finish if you're so let me get this straight. You're democrat, and this is the reason why I believe the Republicans are going to do very well. In the midterms. You do not have any respect for law and order. I have no problem with people coming in this country. Legally. I have no problem with people in this country doing it the right way the legal way you're advocating for as many people that want to come into this country because they have a tough life somewhere doing it illegally what you're saying. It's in the name humanitarian issues. Somehow don't know what these people are going through. I have no problem with having their country the right and legal way Brian. I think you're gonna throw the country, I think. Yes. Exactly k, these people are coming and asking for asylum, guess what? Ben, it's in our laws that people are allowed to come to our borders and ask for asylum. That is what these people want to know. You're here in the pit bull and bog or motivated here involved. What people involved. These are migrants TV on this right now that are breaking laws ripping through gates and and fighting with police in Mexico. You're saying that this data turn them into non law. I one in there. One thing one, our reporters on the ground Bill, where he's hearing that they are. They are fleeing their situation. Home countries. I'm not saying that you're not trying to come for a better life. One other thing that I think is also worthy of pointing out is that they're also the this is not all of them because there are a lot of them Bill. We're hasn't talked all of them, but some of them have told Bill where they don't even want to come to the United States. They were trying to get into Mexico about life. There is there's. They're going to Mexico wants to allow this to happen. The Mexico should allow this to happen, but I think you you and I both know statistically, and we've seen this from other caravans that the ultimate goal is to come to the United States of America. And if you wanna come into this country, you don't break into this country. You don't breakthrough fences. That way, there's a way to do it. There's a way to send your silent in a legal way. And one thing we don't know is there haven't yet made it to the US border. We have no idea if their attempts to come and illegally or if they're all there. This is simply when the people who want to come in, we'll make asylum Bengals that going Trump's talking points and it means that they don't have no joy. Yes, I believe in law and order and legally coming in this country, the right way. Now we see that why this is a big issue in the midterm, raw politics. Donald Trump is making it a big issue guys. Thank you very much. I appreciate it out front. Next Russian national charged with conspiracy to meddle in the twenty eighteen election. What is President Trump's reaction much. Mike, you can. All of the hackers. All of the everybody that you see nothing to do with my campaign. Plus back to our top breaking news tonight, the Saudi is making a major admission tonight about the death of Washington Post contributor, Jamal Kush shook g Republicans already given the president of reason to go easy on the Saudis. Be Kant's joining me this week on March madness. Three sixty five. I've got four. Some from UCF pick to win the American athletic. We just want to be the best thing we can do. Never do that. Then. Up pretty well. So tried to much man is three sixty five now at apple podcasts and Spotify. Over Trump. Campaign chairman, Paul Manafort showing up in court in a prison jumpsuit and a wheelchair today. His right foot was raised and in a sock source telling CNN that he's experiencing serious medical condition. Inflammation that's related to his diet. Now, this is just days after we learned that he and his lawyers have met with Bob Muller's team at least nine times in the last four weeks c. n. n.'s senior Justice correspondent Evan Perez is out front with me. Now, Evan, where does this put us with the Muller investigation in what we learned about Manafort. We still don't know when Muller is going to wrap up. We keep hearing that perhaps it might by the end of December, he might produce a report. But in court today at one of the things that prosecutor said from the Muller team, one of the things they said is that they don't know how much longer Paul Manafort will be providing a cooperation as part of this investigation because that's part of one reason why they were hoping that this judge would delay his sentencing. But as you heard today, the judge said that he was sentenced Paul Manafort in in February, and he's looking at some very serious time because of the eight counts that he was convicted in back in August in the eastern district of Virginia. Now, keep in mind that he has you said has been cooperating with the Muller team since he pled guilty to the charges here in Washington. So we'll see how much more help and what kind of help Paul Manafort has been providing to Muller and we'll see some of that come out in the months to come also new tonight. No, the first person to be in. Indicted in connection with Russian interference in the twenty eighteen election. Oh, can you tell us right? That's a this is a big deal because a lot of this investigation has been looking back at the two thousand sixteen election. What we learned today is that the prosecutors say that the Russians are still doing this and they're doing it with related to the twenty eighteen midterm elections and this woman, her name is Alena who's your Nova? She is a Russia national who is been helping to fund some of these Russian trolls that we've heard about in the Muller investigation. And one of the things that these guys were doing with essentially trying to put a pit Americans against each other is the thirty five million dollar operation according to prosecutors, it's something that they were doing not only the United States, but also in Europe. They're targeting issues like LGBT issues. Anything having to do with race relations. There were even targeting Senator McCain and members of congress and Robert Muller. They said that Robert Muller was a is a member. Of the establishment or as a puppet of the establishment. These are the ones among the things that they're using Facebook and Twitter and other places to try to so divisions among Americans in the lead up to the twenty two thousand eighteen election. So pretty much the same playbook that we saw happen at twenty sixteen is what the Russians are up to again in two thousand eighteen. Yeah. All right, Evan. Thank you so much out. Problem with me now is former assistant US attorney for the southern district of New York. Harry Sandik. Harry is. Evan was just pointing out the in court today. Prosecutors were saying that they couldn't say how much longer that they need. Paul metaphor that manafort's cooperation is needed in the Russia probe. Does that? Does that tell you anything? Does that give you anything in terms of where they are in the investigation and self? Well, it says it says that it's definitely not over yet. If he's going to be sentenced in February and the prosecutors didn't say that they thought he would be finished cooperating by February that they would need to submit some post sentencing motion to give him credit for. His cooperation to me that says there they have hopes that they can use him to build more cases. We know that Manafort has, and his legal team have met with Muller's office at least nine times in the last month you've been involved in cooperation deals or is that what is that unusual? What does it say about how useful Manafort is to the investigation? I think it says that there's a lot of debriefing now. They probably did less debriefing before his entering into the agreement because we'll recall he was on trial and wasn't cooperating until pretty closely before his day in court date in September. So they have a lot of work to do. They have a lot of ground to cover meeting twice a week, probably for a full day suggests that there's a lot of download and going on. And it sounds like this is going to continue for several weeks more, at least until he gets sentenced. Again, we will see Harry. Thanks so much. Limitless out front for us. Next, as we await the president's next move over the death of the Washington Post contributor or his allies already paving the way for something of a weak response. Shoghi was tied to the Muslim Brotherhood and there were that's exactly. Plus I'll raise the day hair Harry end and breaks down who's leading in one of the most crucial and closest governor's races in the country. So many people around the world depend on CNN's quality reporting, and now they have an incredible online store. We've closed gear and gadgets right now you can get fifteen percent off your purchase, just visit store dot, CNN dot com. And when you're checking out into the code CNN podcast, just one word and get a fifteen percent discount. It's that simple that's store dot, CNN dot com. Breaking news, Saudi Arabia, confirming the death of missing journalist, Jamal shook g the country dismissing top general also detaining eighteen other Saudis in connection with this. This is after though remember weeks of Saudi Arabia, denying any involvement, which begs the question, what will President Trump do now about all of this? Because some of his allies preemptively went on the attack smearing Kush shook she to defend Trump's response. Tom foreman is out front. Shoghi was tied to the Muslim Brotherhood and there are that's exactly if the Harris to save you was tied to the Muslim Brotherhood. What was it? Then we're the president under fire over his muted response to the apparent murder of Washington Post columnist, Jamal. Cashew g the conservative cavalry is roaring. Trump's rescue is not good guy himself calling the missing man, a radical activists and apologised for his Llamas, terrorism, the president's own son retweeted this about cashew g a democratic reformer. Journalist holding a rocket-propelled grenade with Jihadist another conservative called him a longtime friend of terrorists just to find out what's happening. The president is in a tight spot. Evidence is mounting against the Saudi government in Kashoggi's disappearance, but the Saudis are also key diplomatic energy and military ally for the US and the president's defenders are quick to say that relationship is. Enormously valuable. It's not something that you want to blow up a willy nilly complicating. The matter the administration was the guidance of presidential son-in-law, Jared, Kushner has put a lot of hope in Saudi Crown prince Mohammad bin Salman who was being hailed as a champion for reform and not just by politicians, but more recently headlines have howled about his alleged abuses of human rights. His imprisonment of critics and now questions are swirling about whether the White House is closest tie in the kingdom was involved. In the kashogi case, there are lots of flashing red size that this was a reckless individual to be doing business with, but they ignored it all because you agree was a sharp critic of the prince, still the president's defenders are pressing on. Donald Trump is keeping his eye on the ball. Keeping his high on the geopolitical ball, the national security ball. He's trying to figure out a way out. This is what he's doing. The Washington Post work is, should you work? Nonetheless is saying that these attempts to smear his name by bringing up old contact. He had through his job where he had to talk to terrorists things like that. They're saying that it's simply reprehensible at this point. Kate, Tom, thanks so much. I appreciate it out front for us next race of the day, the Florida's governor's race that's getting nastier by the day. Are Harry Antony has a new forecast for the race? Who's the head fair back. Hello, everyone I'm unleash Malone. The host of the film struck podcast show for love is of great cinema on the latest episode. Oscar nominated screenwriter and director tamra Jenkins tells me about her film private life, which is partly based on her own struggles with Tilleke and how it took her some time to see the entertainment value in the story. I had a friend who when I would tell her my stories about what was happening from a girlfriend confidante she said, oh, you should write this stuff down. And she said, because it would be good material for a movie. And I said, I never to. That's never going to happen. Of course, I did. I'm here. I am telling you make sure to subscribe and listen on apple podcasts, Spotify, stick CIA, or whatever else you get your podcasts. Down to the wire folks with a little more than two weeks until election day democratic nominee for Florida governor. Andrew gillum is returning to campaigning after a pause, free falls due to hurricane Michael gillum slamming his Republican opponent Rhonda Santa's for his ties to President Trump and for airing negative ads during the storm that RIC havoc on the Florida panhandle watch. My opponent, spent his time running negative commercials, all across the northern panhandle, what people were running for their lives. This man has no relationship to the truth. He didn't have it in congress, and he certainly won't have it as a candidate. He takes his his, his cues from Donald Trump. Donald Trump has no relationship to the truth either. The race is neck and neck a recent Mesa recent Mason Dixon poll before the hurricane showing Gillan with a one point lead well within the margin of error, and it is today's race of the day out front. Now senior writer and analysts, we're seeing in politics Harrington. He's here Harry. What is what is your current forecast on this governor's race that everyone's watching? So my current forecast is that Andrew gillum a win by four percentage points. That's my forecast that's based off of the polling data that we've seen. Yes, that Mason Dixon poll as close, but if you look at all the polls and how well they performed a store cly it projects it, and you'll get a win by four percentage points wide margin of error though. So you know, Ron sands is still has a shot still has a shot and we'll, let's be honest until election day. Does it appear though, and maybe you've already you're answering this already? Does it appear that one of them has momentum over the other? And I wonder if if the hurricane impacts that, yeah, I think we're going to have to see what the polling looks like post hurricane, right? There's no hurricane variable in my mom, you know? So we'll see. But I will say that some of the more recent. Recent polls show dissent this perhaps gaining a little momentum, closing the gap a little bit that Mason Dixon poll we spoken about. But of course, we want to look at a bunch of different polls before coming to a projection. And one thing is talking about and is this ant and his connection to Donald Trump. He is one of Trump's. I mean top defenders in congress look no further than of course, some of the ads that is cut for viewers watched us. Everyone knows my husband, Ron to Santa's is endorsed by President Trump. He's also an amazing dad. Ron loves playing with the kids build the wall. He reads stories then Mr. Trump said, you're fired. I love that part. He's teaching Madison to talk make America. Great. Again. Some purporting from political. I know that is amazing. Some reporting from politico that Trump is, I don't know, turned onto Santa's somewhat viewing is disloyal for disagreeing with him on Trump's take on the death toll with hurricane, Maria in Puerto Rico, does Trump long way of saying, does Trump help or hurt the Santa's. Do you think in this race? I would say that if the Santa's doesn't have Trump on his side, it's big trouble for him in so far. Is that Florida, the Florida Republican, electorate really loves Donald Trump. His approval rating in the state is perhaps a little higher than you might think given that Florida's thought of a swing state and how poorly performing nationally. So the Santa says, sort of this wire, they has to kind of walk across right where he doesn't Ellie make the middle, the elector while keeping the based on his side and so far it appears he's not doing that successfully. All right. Again, let us see. Great to see Harry. Thanks so much. Thank you. And you can see gillum and a Santa's in a CNN debate live Sunday night, eight o'clock. We'll see there that's moderated by Jake tapper. Thanks so much for joining us. AC three sixty starts now. There was noon like Anthony, bourdain. There was new show parts on. EMMY award winning CNN original series returns for one last ride around the world. Can to Indonesia to story of Spain far west Texas to the lowly side. Anthony, bourdain parts, unknown the final episodes, Sundays at nine on CNN.

President Trump president United States Saudi Arabia reporter Mexico Washington Post congressman CNN Saudi government Paul Manafort White House America Kate Baldwin Congressman congress Trump Twitter Saudi consulate Mike campaign
Trump repeats unfounded claim that "middle Easterners" are in migrant caravan heading to United States; Bolton says he told Russians their election interference didn't have "any effect" on 2016; USA Today: Trump calls Khashoggi's death "a plot gone awry";

Erin Burnett OutFront

45:14 min | 2 years ago

Trump repeats unfounded claim that "middle Easterners" are in migrant caravan heading to United States; Bolton says he told Russians their election interference didn't have "any effect" on 2016; USA Today: Trump calls Khashoggi's death "a plot gone awry";

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President Trump doubling down now insisting middle easterners are in the caravan Kraus's, but where's the evidence plus national security adviser, John Bolton, telling the Russians, there's no evidence that they're interference had any effect on the two thousand sixteen election, really, and the Saudi foreign minister in a war of words with Republican Senator rand. Paul Senator Paul, we'll be my guest. Let's go out from. Good evening. I'm dick tapper in for Erin Burnett out front tonight, doubling down on a lie, President Trump trying to stoke fear and repeating without evidence that there are unknown middle easterners in the estimated seven thousand migrants making their way north to the US US Mexico border. When asked for evidence of this claim, he told reporters that we should go find it. Give it a five. Bye. You're gonna find everything. This comes after the president tweeted this morning, the quote, sadly, it looks like Mexico's police and military are unable to stop the caravan heading to the southern border of the United States. Criminals and unknown middle easterners are mixed in our reporters with cameras in the middle of the caravan. They call the president's claim completely unfounded. I also spoke to a department of homeland security official that official telling me that in fiscal year two thousand eighteen the government apprehended just over three thousand quotes, special interest aliens from countries such as Bangladesh, Pakistan, Nigeria, and Somalia. Now, first of all, that's important and it's important for us to know, but that's not a statement about the caravan caravan. Second. Those countries that I mentioned are not Middle Eastern South Asian and African. The official went on to say that the US government has apprehended seventeen thousand criminals entering the US legally one thousand gang members, important information, of course, and part of the debate. We should be happy about illegal immigration and the border. But that's debate should be based in fact. And again, none of that proves that there are criminals or middle easterners in this caravan, but that has not stopped the president from depicting the caravan as a clear and present danger. I will seal off the border before they come into this country and I'll bring out our military, not our reserves upbringing at our military sealing off the border. Bringing in the military. The Pentagon says it has not been called by the president to bring out the military to the border. The migrants tonight are making their way to the town of who is LA, roughly eleven hundred miles from the US border. The question, of course, is the president discussing all of this. So as to try to solve a problem to bring attention to immigration law, loopholes that are creating incentives for Central American migrants to clean refugee refugee status in the US or or is this about jenning up Republican, voter enthusiasm by depicting the caravan is an immediate threat as the president has done since the very first day of his presidential campaign. They bring in drugs that bring in crime, their rapists, her plan will import generations of terrorism extremism and radicalism into your schools and throughout your communities. And the Democrats open border policies have also allowed MS thirteen to break into our country and drugs to pour into our streets, the murder rate in our countries, the highest spending forty seven years. And you know that forty seven years drive is rising. People are scanned by the way. The murder rate is not the highest suspended. Forty, seven years, Jeff Zeleny is out front live tonight in Houston. President Trump is about the campaign for Senator. Ted, Chris, Jeff, has the White House offered any proof, any actual evidence to back up the president's claim of unknown middle easterners in the caravan. Jake, the president is just arrived here and he is not expounded on that, although we do expect him to do that night at the rally. But why does press secretary? Sarah Sanders told reporters back in Washington is their short time ago that there is quote absolutely evidence of this, but she went on to give no evidence at all. No specific credible evidence of there being Middle Eastern residents, men women inside these caravans, Jake, what this is about. I am told talking to a variety of people. This is simply look at the timing, the timing of this coming fifteen days before the midterm elections, the president has been increasing his rhetoric against immigrants. He's been talking about the borders more and more. It hasn't necessarily been breaking through. So this is one way the president is trying to break through. It is something we saw in two thousand sixteen. He was using immigration as an issue to scare some voters in the eyes of critics. So that is what explains the timing of all this. But as for the president himself, Jake, he is not given any evidence at all to the. Fact that there are a middle easterners in his view inside these caravans here. But Jake, the politics of this very interesting is campaigning for Ted Cruz. As you said here in Houston tonight, not all Republicans are comfortable by this language, and the reason why politically speaking, at least the voters that they are trying to reach of those suburban voters who are not nearly as tough on immigration as the president. So we'll see if President Trump talks about it any more detailed tonight or if he just simply simply keep talking about as a scare tactic. I think it's likely they'll be a ladder. Jake as now the White House has given no evidence at all to what the president said. All right, Jeff. Zeleny. Thanks so much up front tonight. We have been Ferguson host of the Ben Ferguson show Joan Walsh, national fierce correspondent for the nation. We also have with us Mark, Preston, CNN, senior political analyst. Ben, let me start with you. There isn't any proof that middle easterners are in this crown. The caravan. So. So why make the clan? I think it's a bigger point. The president's trying to make, which is we don't know all the people that are in this caravan and all the people in there are clearly not necessarily just people looking for asylum and doing good things. We know that in this country and doesn't seventeen everyday. The government stopped ten people per day on average in two thousand seventeen year that were either on terrorist lists or connected to terrorism and the. Is just starting interrupted just that's not necessarily at the Mexico border. Trying to come in the United States, but we know that the easiest area to come into this country illegally, and we've seen whether it's Boko haram we've seen it from al-qaeda and others said, if there's ways to get an America one, the easiest way to do it is not on a plane. We know that because we've secured that. We have an unsecure board in the president's going back to send that we're very well for him. In the in the first election, he said, we have an open border. We need to secure the border and the fact that you have ten thousand or eight thousand or eleven thousand people that can make it to the US and that we cannot technically stop. If they touch US official that they have one finger are one toe on our soil. We're going to not just take them if they have kids, and we've seen this exploited well, they can come across and we will release them into society in America. That's a huge problem. In many of the voters in Houston are saying an abort state. They agree with the president. So Joan, the caravans moving on foot. There's still hundreds of miles from the US border, which means they could still be on the move right before the election. The president is telling Americans to be scared of this, and it's the Democrats fault. He tweeted today quote, every time you see a caravan or people legally coming. Or attempting to come into our country illegally, think of and blame the Democrats of this could work. Don't you think in terms of getting up, Republican, voter, enthusiasm, work to gin up is basic, could the number one issue that Republicans list in terms of their voting in the midterms is immigration. He knows what he's doing, but that shouldn't stop us from saying, this is a caravan of lies not only the middle easterners mixing in that's a lie, but also this notion that the Democrats have anything to do with the caravan. They don't the notion that they're coming that these these migrants are coming to commit voter fraud. We don't have a voter fraud problem in this country. We have a voter suppression problem, and you know, we Republicans have searched in search. I remember the Bush administration did a five year study of voter fraud. They found a hundred and twenty cases of voter fraud, and they were largely felons who thought that they had the right to vote. But a lot of states doesn't. Talk to, you're not saying it's a voter fraud issue. It's an issue of letting people into this country did not come here the right of the appropriate way. I also think this. Well, I think the president's saying there is potential when you have someone who's able to break in your country, there is also potential for that person to have voter fraud. We have local elected officials, Democrats in California, they're advocating for legal immigrants to be able to register to vote. We've seen where illegal immigrants have been able to register to vote. That would be a voter fraud Heine and you don't think it's going to grow. Right now, Mark Preston, the president is getting ready to take the stage at a rally for Senator Ted Cruz. Just a reminder for anybody out there who forgot. Here's how the two of them interacted during the Republican primary presidential campaign. Donald year, a sniveling coward leave Heidi. The hell alone was with Harvey Oswald prior to Oswald being, you know, I'd be the whole thing is ridiculous. A man cut cannot tell the truth, but he combines it with being narcissist lying Ted Cruz lying Ted. Lies he lies, but that was then this is now here's how the president spoke about Ted Cruz earlier today. Mutiple Ted Texas. Look, it just goes to show you that that politics isn't necessarily based upon loyalty or or or friendship. It's based upon expediency and and situational awareness. And Ted Cruz is very aware that he needs the backing of Donald Trump specifically in Texas. He does listen, better work, came out of nowhere to enlist, give Ted Cruz a challenge we do if he is going to win Cruz is still favourite, but the fact that you have the prison, the United States going into ruby red Texas, to try to protect it incumbent at a time when Republicans are trying to pick up seats in Indiana and West Virginia, a hold in hold in Tennessee. Shot by by crews in crews and Trump getting together. Remember Barack Obama ran radio ads that actually aired up. Mine show that said Hillary Clinton cannot be trusted with foreign policy. Then he made her the secretary of state on foreign policy. He also said Hillary Clinton. But he also said about Hillary Clinton, Hillary Clinton will say anything to get elected. I'm Barack Obama vote for me. So the idea that somehow this is shocking to Republicans would come together. They all do this. Someone secretary of state at the does that offend for. He'd never accused Barack Obama's father of being part of the Kennedy's assassination. But in politics, you know this, I mean, when you say someone's terrible foreign policy and then you make them cigarettes date. There's an apocryphal everywhere. Move on. His wife is any. I've seen the interaction of even Donald Trump junior and it got nasty with Ted Cruz couple years ago, and it was very clear. It was done with the election was over. They were going to work together, Donald Trump and Ted Cruz talk often, don't you don't understand how often they talk and they talk policy a lot. They have become very close over the last several years. Once the election was over those two men said and take crew said, I'm going to work with you for the things that matter to people in my state, and they've done that conservative pundit SE cups that on my show earlier today, this is all part of the emasculation of the GOP by Donald Trump. He just goes in and you might not like the metaphor, but, but but he goes in and basically he makes Republicans submit to him and they do there is a game of submission going on to have said things about his wife the way he did to have said things about his father. And now to proudly be going into Houston to save the day for Ted Cruz. I think has to be a humiliating feeling for. For ten. Very specific one. They wanted him in here. I mean, they. He's not saving. He's not saying. That's just not true. Cruise was doing just fine. But then. Reason, not please using. Baiser using time that could probably be better used. I think the White House so has been pretty smart about where they've sent the president and I think they realized tonight you get a lot of really good media coverage when you have Ted Cruz and Donald Trump on stage at a massive crowd, where there was more to one hundred thousand people that wanted tickets to this. This is a good optics weeks before the election day idiom with a hundred thousand seats. Well. We clear if you get coming from there. If you think Donald Trump's insanely pot. I think if they would get bigger and bigger and bigger and jets, they could have filled the stadium if they wanted to go bigger and bigger quicker. Well, the reason why they didn't is because when you go and you do a venue and you're doing it from a state perspective, a Senate perspective, if you go and get one hundred thousand ninety show up, we know what happens. Well, they didn't fill a stadium. There's empty seats over there. You always want any any politician, Hillary Clinton during her old campaign. I agree smaller. In a small roof, the Kennedys did it if I'm just saying he lies about his crowds all the time. I can tell you from Texas gay. There was one hundred thousand people that were more than happy to show up tonight. They were thrilled the president right? Ben Ferguson, Joan Walsh, Mark, Preston, thanks one and all appreciate upfront. Next national security adviser, John Bolton, telling the Russians that their interference didn't have an effect on the two thousand election. How did he come to that conclusion? Plus the Saudis call out Senator rand Paul for saying that the crown prince was responsible for Jamal from Shuki death Senator. Paul will respond right here and the out front race of the day, the Montana Senate race does it all come down to Trump getting his revenge on John tester, stay with us. You know what's not smart job sites that overwhelming with tons of the wrong resumes, but you know what is smart, ZipRecruiter dot com slash out front. Unlike other job sites, ZipRecruiter doesn't wait for candidates to find you. ZipRecruiter finds them for you. It's powerful matching technology scans, thousands of resumes identifies people with the right skills, education and experience for your job and actively invites them to apply. So you get qualified candidates fast, no more sorting through the wrong resumes. No more waiting for the right candidates to apply. It's no wonder that ZipRecruiter is rated number one by employers in the US this rating comes from hiring sites on trust pilot with over a thousand reviews. And right now, listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at this exclusive web address, ZipRecruiter dot com. Slash out front. That's ZipRecruiter, dot com slash, oh, you t. f. r. o. n. t. ZipRecruiter dot com. Slash out front ZipRecruiter. This. Artist way to hire national security adviser ambassador. John Bolton says he told Russian officials that they're meddling in the two thousand sixteen election did not have an effect on the election speaking to a radio station in Moscow Bolton and said, quote to the point, the point I made two Russian colleagues today was that I didn't think whatever they had done in terms of meddling in the two thousand sixteen election that they had any effect on it. But what they have had an effect in the United States is too so enormous distrust of Russia out front now. Democratic Senator because fan Holland of Maryland does Senator wha. What's your reaction to in Basseterre Bolton, no effect on the election. Well, Jay combustion Bolton really doesn't know what he's talking about because our intelligence agencies unanimously confirmed a couple of things. The Russians interfered in our election, the interfered for Hillary Clinton and they could not evaluate what kind of impact ultimately had on her election. So for John Bolton to speculate that was minimal. First of all is dead wrong. And second, he should not be in Moscow down plane. The significance and seriousness with which we take a Russian interference in our elections, especially when we're just about two weeks out right now from twenty eighteen midterms. It's interesting because when it happened and admit ambassador Bolton was he was a pundit on FOX and not a member of the administration when it happened. He said it was essentially inactive war against the United States by Russia. Now he's saying it's sows mistrust, but he seems to be downplaying. Well, it was a total violation of our sovereignty, undermines our democracy. And if embassador Bolton were serious about trying to stop it, he and the administration would have supported a bipartisan legislation that Senator Marco Rubio in I introduced called the deterrent which would have established very stiff, automatic penalties. If we catch the Russians interfering in two thousand eighteen or beyond. Instead the administration did not support that legislation and we adjourned without passing it. So clearly they were not serious about actually doing something about the threat to our democracy. And I want to ask you, in addition about view, sitting on the budget committee and remarks President Trump made today about tax cuts. Take a listen. Girl, we're going to be fast enough. We're putting in a resolution sometime in the next week or we could have to wake layers. Going to put an, we're giving a middle income tax reduction of about ten percents. We're doing it now for middle income people. This is not for business middle, that's on top of the tax decrease that we've already. You know, going through. Won't have time to do the vote. We'll do the vote after the election. So they're going to put in a Bill and they'll do the boat after the election, ten percent for middle income. You're the ranking democrat on the Senate budget committee. Presumably the White House has reached down to you. What can you tell us about these new tax cuts? Well, we haven't had a word is you heard the president apparently didn't even realize congress was not in session, but Jake Democrats have always supported targeted middle class tax cuts and to hear the president now say, oh, he wants the middle class. Tax cut tax cut is a huge admission that the tax cut that they just did, which was two hundred trillion dollars added to our deficit and debt went primarily to big corporations, CEO's and millionaires of and now apparently he wants a do over because as he travels around the country, he realized that middle class and working folks aren't really benefiting from that tax cut. After all they promised. There would be four thousand dollars increases in everybody. These wages instead corporations or spent the money on stock buybacks that help their executives. And by the way, also help a lot of foreign but stockholders. So this, presumably, this is something you could get behind the ten percent of its targeted for middle class and working class. Americans would Jake. What we'd like to do is provide tax relief to middle class and working Americans and pay for it by increasing the tax rates. They just caught on millionaires and folks like Donald Trump because the results of their tax cut was to increase the debt two trillion dollars. And so now Republican leader, Mitch McConnell's coming around insane. What that they want to go cut, Medicare cuts, social security and cut Medicaid. So let's not run up to trillion dollar debt by giving tax breaks to the very wealthy. Let's scale back the big tax cuts. They just gave to the very wealthy and target them toward the middle class. That's something that every buddy could get behind. But that would be an admission. By Trump and Republicans that the tax cut, they just did was two trillion dollars to our kids and grandkids credit card for very rich people and big corporations as we should not be doing that. I want to ask you before you go, you're also chairman of the democratic senatorial campaign committee which works to elect Democrats to the Senate. We're now fifteen days away from election day. It looks like the Democratic Party is facing more headwinds than you were just a few weeks ago. Republicans have more money than the Democrats the president's job approval ratings up to forty seven percent in the new NBC Wall Street Journal poll. That's the highest Mark of his time in office. I believe it's higher than we're Obama was at this time in the midterms are, are you concerned? The Democrats might actually lose seats in the Senate. No, I'm not concerned Jake and welcome back from the debate. Last night in Florida gubernatorial debate. We have a big Senate race there. Bill Nelson, I'm confident. Bill Nelson is going to beat Rick Scott. Even though as you say, Rick, Scott is spending gobs more money. But Rick Scott has also been a bad governor and we're seeing that reflected in what folks are telling us down in Florida. We've always said that Democrats in the Senate have a very difficult political map. We have twenty six, Democratic Senate seats were defending were eight Republican seats of, but that being said, we still see the energy on the democratic side, big turnouts. And the reality is that even in states that Trump won when you ask folks what they want, they want senators who are going to stand up for their state that they're going to be independent. And by the way, they certainly do not like what they're hearing from Republicans who are talking about taking away. Protections for people with preexisting health conditions. Republicans voted to take that away. Other Republican Senate candidates are on lawsuits like the Texas lawsuit that would take those protections away from folks and that is a top of mind issue for voters around the country. All right. Senator Kris van hall of Maryland. Thank you so much. Appreciate your time, sir. Thanks, Jake good out front. Next, the Saudis say the death of a journalist was in accidents. So why did they bring a body double to where the journalists close plus you details about Robert Muller's questions for Roger stone. And what did stone share with the Trump campaign stay with us. Hey, it's Howard Beck, and I've got to buy us Harrison. The clippers on bleach reports, the forty eight guys about seventy percent. Vietnam base plan base in every now. And then I give myself the freedom that if I want to go be fish, which I do like I keep it open for myself. The full forty eight is now available on Spotify. And of course you can always listen subscribe all the Bleacher report app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Breaking news. A plot gone awry. President Trump telling USA today believes that he believes that is the reason for the death of Saudi journalist, Jamal Shuki, and questioning Turkish officials who insist his body was cut up with a bone saw. I asked if that proved wrongdoing by the Saudis, the paper says Trump was incredulous and ask, quote, do you know there was a bone saw? We're also learning tonight that CIA director, Gina hassle is on her way to Turkey to address the investigation. This is CNN obtains, exclusive surveillance video that appears to show a body double leaving the Saudi consulate in Turkey the day that Hushovd disappeared. The man seemingly wearing closer cheese clothes and glasses, and even a fake beard. Clarisa word is out front and Istanbul, and Clarence if this was an accident as the Saudis claim, why would they have a body double with a fake beard. Well, that's exactly the question Jake and it appears that the Saudis would prefer to frame this is this was a hastily improvised unilateral decision taken by a rogue band of operatives after the accidentally killed Jamal, who shook g? Well, that doesn't make any sense. Because the first question you have to ask yourself is, why was this body double part of this band of operatives? His name is most of a Melanie. He's fifty seven years old. He does not fit the profile of the rest of the operatives who are decades younger. He's the same height, the same Bill, the same weight as Jamal cookie. He arrived here at eleven three in the morning, wearing a plaid shirt and jeans. He emerged two hours later or roughly three hours later after Jamaica Shuki had been killed through the back exit, wearing the dead journalists clothes. Jake also wearing his glasses. He was wearing a fake beard if this was hastily improvised, why exactly? Did he have a fake. Beard with him. He then went to one of the busiest. Most crowded tourist areas went into a bathroom with plastic bag. Change back into his original close. Then as leader on scene dumping the plastic bag in a dumpster before going back to his hotel, checking out of the hotel heading to the airport, Turkish officials telling us in no uncertain terms that this screams to them that this was premeditated. They believe it was premeditated murder. And tomorrow we're expected to hear from president or one of Turkey. He said he is going to reveal the full naked truth. Jake, a lot of people wanting to know exactly what that will be or Glarus award in Istanbul. Thank you so much. Front now Republican Senator from Kentucky rand. Paul, he sits on the Senate Foreign Relations committee. Senator always good to see you. Thanks for joining us. You said you're certain the crown prince was involved in and directed the murder of Jamal Shiqi. Now you see this video of an apparent body double in cookies clothes, wearing a fake beard on the same day that he was killed. What's your reaction. A little too many coincidences to think, oh, this is just an accidental death. You send a forensic pathologist with a bone saw just in case you might have a fistfight where you have to dismember somebody. I mean how horrific, but then also having a body double. I think there's a lot of reasons to think this was planned and I think because they have such an authoritarian government, nothing there happens that's not directed from above. You don't act without orders. So it's kind of stretches credulity to think that the crown prince wasn't involved in this. Now, Saudi foreign minister idle algebra attacked you for implicating the crown prince. Here's what he had to say. I find it to a very surprising, but somebody's miles away can be about an event that happened six thousand miles away. It's no access to information or intelligence. So this is a judgment call on the part of Senator Paul. This is not spaced. In fact, she's based on the motions and based on speculation, what's your response to the Saudi foreign minister. I think he's got a lot of gall to lecture. The United States about presumption of innocence the Saudis currently have over three thousand people being held without any trial without any presumption of innocence in the prison. These are political prisoners. They have nearly thousand of these prisoners have been there for more than three years. They recently in the last year or so killed a Shia chic, but the name of Nimer Nimer. They're holding his nephew who's been in prison. It's supposed to be imprisoned for life for attending a protest rally. So no, the Saudis shouldn't be lectuing lecturing. Anybody about the presumption of innocence you're calling for the US to suspend arms sales to Saudi Arabia. Over the incident, President Trump has said repeatedly. He he's opposed to that today. He actually mentioned your name while discussing those arm sales to the Saudis tickle. Listen. I don't wanna lose all of that. I don't want to. One hundred dollars. Really. So he says, he agrees with you in a lot of things, but he doesn't want to lose all these hundreds of billions of dollars in arms deals in the like, how are you going to convince the president to get on board with this and that you're right, and he's wrong. Well, as you know, the president I get along pretty well, and I take him at his word, but I also try to say that, you know, I have a different perspective. My perspective is that the Saudis and a lot of authoritarian governments. They see strength. They wanna see you act with strength and they won't respect you. If you don't fear. If the president capitulates to them, he'll not be seen as a strong leader. And I think that is something that the president should listen long and hard to, but also don't think that jobs or arm sales should be seen as a jobs program. I think our military arms are uniquely really owned by the tax payer. We developed planes only because the government wants it for our national defense, most of the arms are sold to our government and so I don't think that we should be, you know, if that were true, we would sell arms to China to Russia to every country in the world of who's just about jobs. It's about whether those countries share our vision and whether those arms actually will enhance our national security in the case of Saudi Arabia. I think they've done a lot of things that really. Are delete Tirias store, national security and actually increase the risk of war. One of the interesting things about the president's pitch on this jobs issue is that he changes the number of American jobs impact by these arm sales to the Saudi. It keeps increasing every time. Almost the president talks about it. Take a listen. This is a President Trump starting in March up until just recently. Talking about over forty thousand jobs in the United States. One hundred, ten billion dollars. I believe it's a largest order ever made. It's four hundred and fifty thousand jobs since five hundred thousand jobs. American jobs I would prefer that we don't use as retribution. Canceling one hundred, ten billion dollars worth of work, which means six hundred thousand jobs. I think it's over a million jobs that's not helpful for us to cancel an order like that from forty thousand jobs, two million jobs of what's your response. I think it's it's notoriously hard to estimate job. But what I would say is I wouldn't do it for one job because I think that Saudi Arabia's the largest state sponsor of radical Islam, violent jihad. They fund tens of thousands of Madrid, tooting teaching this hatred of Christianity, Judaism, and Hinduism, frankly, and all others. And so I think really Saudi Arabia's have been a big part of the whole problem that we've dealt with with worldwide terrorism for for decades. Now, I think what they're doing in Yemen as trophies, I think millions of people are living on the edge of starvation because of this sort of proxy war that the Saudis are fighting in Yemen and the blockade of food. And so no, I don't think we should be supporting them. I think by supporting the Saudis in the war in Yemen, it's more likely to ultimately that al-qaeda will grow stronger in Yemen in that chaos, terrorism grows and feeds on chaos. It did it in Libya did it in Syria, did it in Iraq. And I fear that Yemen the worst. The war gets the more chaos. The more terrorism, they'll alternately be Senator rand. Paul of Kentucky, always good to see you, sir. Thanks so much. Thanks. Jake. Next new details about special counsel. Robert Muller's focus on longtime Trump adviser, Roger stone, and what it's revealing about Muller's investigation plus a racer today. And this one is personal to the president. Also I'm here because I can never forget what Jon tester did to a man that's of the highest quality. Eighty can'ts and joining me this week on March madness three sixty five. I've got a some from UCF pick to win the American athletic conference. We want to be the best thing we can do that and they're not pretty well. So tried to March man is three sixty five now at apple podcasts and Spotify. We'll anymore tonight about special counsel. Robert Muller's probe into Trump ally. Roger stone's alleged ties to WikiLeaks learned investigators are looking into whether or not stone shared information. He received from WikiLeaks with the president's election campaign. Sara Murray is out front, Sarah, what are you learning? Well, we know that investigators doing exactly what you pointed out there trying to figure out whether Roger stone's shared information that he believed was coming from WikiLeaks with then candidate. Donald Trump during the election and prosecutors now have audio in which Roger stone is talking about how he was in regular contact with Donald Trump in the early stage of the twentieth sixteen campaign, but they also have other communications after a number of these document dumps came from WikiLeaks were stowed as essentially saying, you know, I should really get credit from candidate Trump for helping coordinate with WikiLeaks. Now, both Roger stone and his attorney had denied that he ever provided anything to Donald Trump or other members of the campaign. And stone essentially said, look, I had nothing to provide. Who who are the people being looked at as intermediaries of stones? All right. So it's Don spent a long time saying he was in contact with Assange during two thousand sixteen in any kind of walked it back and said, actually, I had a go between I had an intermediary and he's previously identified this guy, Randy Credito who's a New York radio host as well as a comedian. But investigators are now looking at the notion that he may have had multiple intermediaries or maybe credit go was not this primary backchannel. That stone is said. They've also questioned a conspiracy theorists and a right wing journalist named Jerome Corsi about his contacts with Wiki leaks as well as Roger stone trying to probe whether it's possible that Coursey acted as a back channel. Now, of course, he's attorney declined to comment. He told us a couple of months ago though, and of course he was, I interviewed by the special counsel team that course had not had any contact with WikiLeaks or would Julian Assange. So you know this kind of amazing mystery and Roger stone for the record still has not heard from Muller's team. So it's still all of his associates who are being called in rounded up. Shurmur. Thanks so much out front now, former New Jersey attorney general and mill grim. And as a former prosecutor, do you think this means Muller is still focusing on conspiracy? Absolutely. There's no question my mind that there's still an open investigation into the question of whether the Trump campaign conspired with the Russian government to influence the election and again to get dirt on his opponent, Hillary Clinton. So if stone and we don't know that this happened, but if it can be proven that stone provided information from WikiLeaks with the presidential campaign, is that enough for conspiracy? So I I think the short answer is it depends what he knew when he knew it and what he did with that. And so the questions that the modern team would be asking is, did he know about the leaks before they were released before this information was released? Did he in any way coordinate with WikiLeaks? What if he said, can you? There's an indication he sent an Email asking for on Clinton from August tenth to August, thirtieth. Was he trying to control. What came out or when it came out. And if he was doing that in any way in coordination with the campaign that would potentially mean that he would be charged criminally. Here's right now Muller appears. The peers appears appears, we don't know. But it appears right now Muller doesn't have enough to charge stone. Stone himself told us that it was quote certainly possible. He could be charged as we said, the government would be doing it without evidence. If you were stones lawyer, would you tell them you should be worried, right? So so I think stone should be worried for right reasons. One even just based on what's publicly known, he's made wildly inconsistent statements. So he said, publicly, I've been in contact with Sange. Then he walked back. He said, credit, Randy credit, go was the intermediary. Now credit go says, it wasn't me. Everything has changed and been really fluid. And he testified in front of the house intelligence committee potentially could be prosecuted for lying to them. So I think you know on its face at a minimum, he's made inconsistent statements. What we don't know is what these recordings are, what these emails are between he and other people and what. Kind of communications guy with the campaign. So my personally, I don't think it's done. We can't wait to find out. This is all such a big mystery in Oakham. Thank you so much out front next President Trump seeking revenge on the campaign trail, but will voters swayed. It's race of the day plus genie, most on the couple that campaigns together. Fat Don Jr. I call him junior mints. So many people around the world depend on CNN's quality reporting. And now they have an incredible online store. We've clothes gear and gadgets right now you can get fifteen percent off your purchase, just visit store dot, CNN dot com. And when you're checking out into the code CNN podcast, just one word and get a fifteen percent discount. It's that simple that store dot CNN dot com. Tonight I raised that's personal for President Trump. The president has been in Montana three times since July and is number one target, their democratic Senator. Jon tester Trump blames destined for derailing. His nominee to lead the department of veterans affairs. Ronnie, Jackson Gloria borger is out front with our race of the day, Donald Trump jetted into Big Sky country, and he was on the hunt. John test led the democrat Bob in the effort to destroy the reputation of a great man Admiral Ronnie, Jackson Chester, oppose the president's favourite. The White House doctor to run the Veterans Administration. This doctor has a problem because he hands out prescriptions like candy. In fact, in the White House, they calling the Candyman Jackson withdrew. Tester is running for reelection and Trump has tightly embraced his opponent, Matt Rosen, Dale and Rosen, Dale hugs him right back. I will stand in strong support of. President Trump because the work that he's doing really is making America. Great. Again. The race is up for grabs because Montana's pride themselves on their voting independence. Mic ring sack is a lifelong Republican who supports Trump selection where today I'd forget. He also supports tester in a state with the second highest per capita, veterans population in the country. June was working for veterans before he was sworn in, you think there are a lot of people who'll split their ticket by do. Oh, Montana's. Gotta history is plead tickets. You know, we've got a democratic governor public gonna Torney general one, democratic Senator wonderful. Donald Trump won the state of Montana by twenty points. So test walks, a fine line. Careful not to take on the president directly and also point out how many of his bills the president has signed. He's been here three times his son has been here. He tweeted about you and Dr. Ronnie Jackson is he is he doing payback here. What do you think this is. No. I mean what? What I think it's about is him loving Shannon tester is Montana born and bred a third generation, Dirk farmer who still works the land on weekends. He's now asking for a third term Rosendahl who made a fortune in Maryland real estate moved to Montana in two thousand two became a state Senator and is now the state auditor. But tester says Rosendahl is not Montana enough east coast developer from Maryland. The came this date and bought a ranch and claims to be a rancher, but has no cows, Montana. We'll never fall for Matt Rosen deals. He was elected in this district as a Montana legislator that proves he's gotta be Montana, but not on the issues. Tester says not on who controls public lands health care or veteran's benefits to name a few. If he runs on his record, he's he's going to get clobbered. And so he has to do something different. So Rosendahl is charging the tester is a DC liberal out of touch with Montana when he does show up testers, like all the other liberals, we need to send President Trump some conservative reinforcements, but I'm like Trump who lately is a chatty media seeking missile Rosendahl drives away from his own Trump rally right past reporters and into the night and Gloria. So interesting because this is all about how much Trump presents how tester treated Dr Ronnie Jackson. But just the other day Trump allowed that maybe Jackson wasn't quite. Qualified. He did this at the rally in Missoula we were at and I heard it and you know, he said he didn't really want it might not have been qualified, but he was a doctor at a high level. That's that's the exact. So here he is taking on Jon tester for opposing him and then coming out saying, well, maybe, you know, maybe he shouldn't have gotten it anyway. So it was sort of remarkable to me because he is taking on tester on that on that very issue. And just to note, I mean, for him to go to Montana three times since not easy, three, it's really tough to get there, and there are so many races that could use President Trump going there right for him to go to Montana three time, right? And and John tester always has a close race Montana's purple. But so the president wants to make the difference here and Rosendahl is, as you can see is, you know, he struggles on the stump a little bit. So Trump really wants to be for him. Thanks so much coming up next when love and politics collide, Jeannie MOS on this Republican duo hitting the campaign trail. Donald Trump, junior and his new girlfriend romancing each other and Republican voters. Here's Jeanne moss. Isn't it romantic. Their world wind romance, the whirlwind campaigning, Donald Trump, junior, and his girlfriend, Kimberly Guilfoil, or doing muttering sweet nothings and have on my boyfriend. Taking turn. Can someone come up here take the mic for a few minutes. I don't like following Kimberly a. She does not make this easy. These two are hot and heavy. He savages any hot and heavy into politics. Criss crossing the country stumping for Republicans. They became an item after Don, junior's wife, Vanessa filed for divorce. I've known Kimberly for a long time. No other a little bit better. These days the former Fox News co host was banding about her bandage after hurting her hand, playing dodgeball on a trampoline with their kids. She posted from Montana recently recovering after hand surgery. So looking forward to the next trip so I can teach dawn how to shoot and fish. But mainly they've been fishing from midterm votes these to even sound like, you know who. Kimberly is even built it out Trump like nicknames for opponents, like democratic Senator. Joe Manchin swampy, Joe swampy, Joe, they do interviews together. They introduce each other salsa. Dancing come on. They listen to each other speak and Trump flirty little nuggets. For instance about that names that Don Jr. I call him junior men with a newly minted hashtag, dawn and Kimberly has tagged on me. Genie, most on me. CNN New York, Don me. Thanks for joining us. Three sixty starts now. Are you interested in learning how enterprise scale companies drive organic traffic to increase their online visibility than download the voices of search podcast from the heart of Silicon Valley here, search metrics Inc, CEO Jordan Kuni as he delivers actionable insights into how to use data to navigate the ever changing blends with Google apple, Amazon, the voices of search podcast arm search engine marketers, and business analysts with the latest news and insights. They need to nephew ever changing landscape of search engine optimization and content. Are you ready to learn how to use search data defined strategic insights about your competition and your industry as a whole. Then search for voices of search wherever you download your casts. That's three simple words voices of search to learn the secrets of search engine and content marketing.

President Trump president United States Senator Jake Democrats Senator Ted Cruz Donald Trump Paul Senator Paul Republicans CNN Trump White House John tester Hillary Clinton Roger stone Montana America Robert Muller Houston
E120 Get unstuck! 3 universal steps to exiting your business with Ashley Micciche

Biz4Good Show

37:08 min | 1 year ago

E120 Get unstuck! 3 universal steps to exiting your business with Ashley Micciche

"Welcome to the bench for good show where we highlight miss out cats and renegades for the being good doing good movement we spotlight people that are changing the world by having integrity and honesty and creating an environment of connection showing their true secret to success at creating a life of greater impact so come on board and create your own business for good life while will go well good do the band's visit good goes body glenn james along with saying really bill wow that's a good applause that's again we we don't have a good applause on that thing do we know we just have little kids applauding this show now welcome to the show welcome welcome to the show biz regrets show episode one hundred and twenty yes one hundred and twenty ryan tell us about the new ones are just kevin thanks joining us for another episode of the best forget show episode one twenty today we have an amazing guests bobby in it's titled get unstuck three universal steps to x sitting you're business with ashley mitch akkad mitch mitch mitch k reinstate a lot of pretoria mitch k it's fun it's fun to say like mitch akkad everybody will remember her now from the show i leave mitch k that's a cool name that's a cooling off period to mattel sicilian release so she'd be due to this lady would be a kick you for at least seven people to kick you brought all right so with that being said will just go into you're a bio here ashley ashley mitch k is the ceo of true north retirement advisors in independent financial advisory firm managing two hundred and thirty million dollars and located just outside of beautiful portland oregon ashley specialize in designing building in implementing business ex it plans to help her business owners secure their financial and most important business decisions to exit from their business she's on a mission to transition three hundred small business owners successfully into retirement in the next ten years and she is married to her high school high school sweetheart and together they have two kids and boy they were pouring one or they're older our they how are they now know that little regret welcome to the show ashley mitch mitch thank you for having me and i i've never been on a podcast her had an introduction where someone was gave so much attention to my last name thank you hey we we respect really cool stuff and you're last name is ashley ashley rocks to that will back ashley is actually a really cool thing seems so you you got two great okay all right ladies and gentlemen welcome to the show to bonded venturous sharing their experiences of the real secret to success in business doing things with a b good do good mindset there is so much bad noise in the world let's fight against the noise and flood the world with the god find us on instagram stitcher which you're not switch the witcher insta in the face book all those places where people find people twit it tweet cray cray lee he is coming soon crazy crazy dot com creatively back tick tock tick tock tick tock oh yeah we should be that i'm too old to tick tock i think he's met all right all right where we over here ryan a well we have some matter of business to take care of right now little matter of matter business yes everybody run over to the biz rugged a nazi it's biz for good show that's be icy the number for good show dot com at the front on the front of the page click on de beers rugged checklist so you can create your own business or good life we give you ate a several weeks of what to do how to go out and help people go out and do things that is living that is forget life we promise that if you do that you're will be more successful than you ever thought possible because the truth secrets of success is much good you could do in the world so go visit good show dot com check it out so that throw in a monkey wrench again absolutely all right absolutely we did not go over this win the pre pre whatever you call them yeah that free yeah are pre interview with you where where throwing you to the woolsey okay with that i look at it so we use whatever i'm a professional people she she's been very professional so i'm i am confident she could take this a so we have lessons in leadership we like to talk about leadership on the podcast because it is centric to business answer the question i have for you ashley's how could we assist others more in learning their potential on the spot ashley that's a really good question and you know you got time there is an author that i love his name is matthew kelly i don't know if you've heard of him he's written a number of books 'em i central on work in one of the books that he wrote it's called the dream manager any talks about how you big yes i have very interesting book yeah isn't it speaks to this question directly because his the whole thesis of the book is that part of your job is a leader whether you're an owner with employees or you're a manager you know if if an even if you know you just have kids if all of us are leader in something that we do an he's talking about how in the book it talks about how you're one of your primary purposes in you're job in your position and is to help your employees are help the people you're responsible for leading find their passion and pursue that passion 'em and that's what's gonna get the most engaged and so developing your people not just in the work but helping and i'm fine you know what it is that they love doing and what what it is what their gifts are and what they're good at and i think you know too many of us get too far along in life before we really discover start using are get so i love the concept that yeah i absolutely think you bring in that book that is it is a great book they they create a job of somebody that just manages people's dreams in the company while i like i liked this card if you were like a dream or like chief dream office as oh yeah thank you for bringing that book up awesome everybody that's a that's a great golden nugget go get that book and a super super cool anything else writer we're going right into the interview no i appreciate that was awesome i i actually is typing that as we were talking so just can demand you did that was awesome who is put some little fun to to the show you know what you could we well how could we could we do a google challenge oh we haven't done a google have not done a good will challenge for a long time could we just have upper having a little bit of fun nationally very good okay i see here's how the google challenge word what happens is we are gonna put your title the title of your show into google and we're gonna hit search and the title of the show we are going to go to 'em pitched three page three because nobody goes the page three and then we're going to find what google has to say about the title of your episode an then we're gonna see if you agree or disagree while you actually come up of course she's on most age she's on most have type page one that makes central though so that's why we gotta go to page through hebei get oh here we go what is this mud tire straps nail that the way that might be in my tires why is it saying the n word because we know you're gaining on some remote unlock okay this may be the weirdest adler in creative writing online leave that bobby we need a turnaround okay this is there's only three paging through the third period interest that you know people are talking about this enough route true how about get unstuck just do get unstuck no that's for sure gonna be tired you know just stuck just take it all we got this trust me trust me on this ryan willing terry new free will help them get unstuck see there that's a tedtalk that's gotta be good pitch three trust me trust me ryan's it's gonna be so i'm trusting you why you're feeling stuck and how they get unstuck beret is okay click on it what it as i like i like okay ashley see if you agree with what google has to say about getting a doctor erin review why you're feeling feeling stuck and how to get unstuck are you feeling stock do you experience a sick stuck miss is the perception of limited choices if you think you're current job is you're only option even though you've exceeded you're goals every year but haven't been promoted i bet you're feeling stuck if you're only staying with your boyfriend because you don't think you'll ever meet anyone else i bet you're feeling stuck no one likes feeling stuck but in order get unstuck you have to step back and really look at your life this means assessing the good stuff like you're strengths abilities and resources next comes the not so good stuff like the limits problems imparts you're not satisfied west then you have to make a choice and there's always a choice no matter the situation really really what do you think ashley what do you think you think all you have to do is just tweak that not cause it applied the business owners 'cause i i think it's bought on and it speaks to what i talk with business owners about all the time which is they wanna exit their business and retire at some point they just don't know the path or so getting on the path getting on the padding on the pat okay i think we're gonna have to give that the ashley yeah if you win ashley ashley wins good job are you beat google you could put that on on you know some underestimate saying that you go all right ashley we've had from you so much a were actually gonna interview you now you okay we we were everybody wants hear from you they're tired from us so can you tell us a little bit about the first time the being good at doing good meant something to you a maybe a story or or something where it really hits you that the being on this earth and doing good things matter yes so i am actually grew up i went to a catholic school my whole life and so service projects in service require metro is a part of that and so so i feel like that was drilled into me from a pretty early age but when i read after i graduated high school so i i would eighteen end i don't know how i got connected with this or why participated paid in it but i ended up doing for about a week a homeless immersion program and so we would go and we would work in various 'em charities that are involved at the homeless in portland and the and the homeless situation of portland it's actually gotten a lot worse since then but it was pretty bad at the time there's quite a few homeless people and 'em the they're not the resources to deal with it in one of the things that we ended up doing so we could put ourselves literally in the shoes of the homeless is one day we ended up dressing like we were homeless and getting carport sides and writing on them and panhandling you know asking people for money on the street and that was a very eye opening experience because because you had people who are very kind to you and you know people gave you money and then you had people who yelled at you and said get a job and you know and so it was just really interesting should be in the shoes i mean how often do you have the opportunity to experience empathy in that kind of deep way when when you're helping somebody else it's really challenging but i will never forget that experience and actually what surprised surprised me the most is we made there is a we went off in groups of like three or four of us at altogether and kinda stuck together in a group but in a couple of hours we made a pretty decent amount of money and i remember we went and got burritos afterwards so why is the first time i guess where i really realized you know just an ever since i have a lot more empathy for homeless people i feel like i understand a lot what goes into you know there's a lot of homeless they have mental illness they have you know drug issues and diseases end there's just not the support structures in society to deal with them and inappropriate way in and i don't have any answers for that but i definitely a it's changed how i how i view 'em the homeless population i was just in portland a couple of years ago in a you know there was quite a bit of a homeless people off of interstate there i remain yeah yeah under the under the bridge under the overpasses yeah there's a weird i don't i don't fully understand the politics of it but it's a weird thing what the city they basically the police don't do anything 'em which is not i don't think it's a very compassionate way to deal with the homeless population is just let them run amok a it's not healthy for them it's not good for the non homeless as well so you know i they're not they're not police seen it at all and so there there's a lot of issues particularly in portland but i know other cities have this problem as well so and also a little bit ago seattle same thing with chance all over what's crazy yeah yeah these little tent cities yeah anyways that wasn't amazing story actually actually getting in the footsteps of someone did you feel a little awkward that daily 'em yeah i you know i felt weird because we were actually homeless 'em i felt weird taking people's money who thought that we were homeless but the point was not that we were trying to you know scammed people take their money but that we would actually understand what it what it was like we have a brochure you're walking in a mile and someone's foot show yeah sure that's it it's interesting that's a whole interesting thing i mean there are we talk about being good and doing a good good a lot on the show but there is only so much you can do and then other people have to do to yeah you do after all and then when you when you're talking about mental illness gosh there's so much a if we all if everybody just stood up and did something good everyday unassisted somebody every day our world would be a better place yeah i mean okay you wanna ask this question ryan is my favorite question 'cause is deep question what is your commitment to a biz very good life that's a really good question 'em you know it's funny 'cause i know one of the main ten severe show is integrity and 'em awhile back we as the organization true north we did a strategic plan and part of that process was establishing are purpose that are core values and 'em are number one core value is integrity above all else an 'em i my dad from a very very young age the the piece of advice i remember more than anything that my dad gave me growing up is that you always have to be able to look at yourself in the mirror and see what he meant by that was from and integrity standpoint like to to not be ashamed of of anything you said or done and it's really hard it did take say you know a a concerted effort and a commitment to have integrity because we're faced with decisions all the time where we can you know bend the truth or push something under the rug or hide something and you know sometimes it's easier way out and they and so i feel like values are big driver of what you know what makes those decisions if i if my core value in my first informer for most value is integrity above above all else that definitely helps drive a lot of decisions and keeps keeps me on the right path 'em an end and also we hold that expectation to all of our employees as well we talk about it in you know meetings and bringing it up so i know a lot of people will create these core values and it's just kind of something that lives on a paper is on a wall somewhere the challenges of values and that's the hard part i work trip place and they had a one of those things said one team one goal and a something hit the fan one day and i had to go to a supervisor in new had no support animals like what happened to this one one goal and i felt so that down so it's it's critical that we being you're you're absolutely right have integrity integrity was what you're as a business not just on the wall yeah wallflower well you know there there's a quote here are purpose are erdo a there's a a quote from john maxwell actually no next nothing about this guy but he he says a hundred years now all that will matter is the people that you connected was in such a way that you added value and meaning to their live absolutely love it cool wow were where were we what happened what happened we got a serious we this happens sometimes sometimes it happens all hey this is good we we we we like to go in a rollercoaster posted where we go oh this is craziness were having fun and then we liked being serious crime and sometimes we show it's a beautiful thing i cried sad commercials i can't help it but it's beautiful it's wonderful emotion is the good thing it's a part of being good doing good is the get out there and get emotional and get all over people and and have some fun so cool all right so we like to ask you next question 'em what is the challenge that you give our listeners call to action or maybe a a gold nugget that you could give our listeners that they could take unused maybe you've used in your life that is really us assisted you yeah so 'em have you ever heard of the term or the word kaizen the japanese you succeed it's a it's a yes yup so means continuous improvement ashley i quality control six sigma supply chain management class in college when i was a business major but i was a finance major so i remember being like why the heck am i taking this class like this has nothing to do with what i wanna wanna do with my career but the the probably out of all the classes the chicken college the thing that i learned in this class skies and and you know they it applied the manufacturing in six sigmund quality control and all that but where it came up for me is i was like wow this is a really neat concept like small changes continuous improvement and these small little steps and so that's the thing that i found that has worked for me in my own life because you know a lot of times you might have these big goals that that seem difficult you know you're trying climbing everest whatever that is an you look at the top of the mountain in you think my goodness i don't think i've ever gotta get there but it's just just one what what is the next thing i can do what is the one next thing i can do in a good example is i shouldn't i probably shouldn't chairs that i'm bad with the spoke pervert i am i have been horrible for my entire life without being regular about boston my teeth i do not require as much as i should grow a the cars in principle that i've applied to this is that whenever i fall behind so it ebbs and flows and i still struggle but they haven't figured it out yet but 'em i am so the first day i'm like okay i'm not gonna worry about fossey my whole mouth i'm just gonna take the floss out of the door and take a pizza sauce out and put it on the table and then the next i'm gonna force one to and then like i'll do that for a few days and then also lost two teeth and it sounds ridiculous but like you can't not i mean it's so easy to floss one to so a couple of weeks you know i'm working up to five six keith and then before you know what i'm watching my whole mouth and so it's in the ridiculously small things and i think a lot of us and i'm guilty you have this to try to look at the world and to our have this big impact on the world and i wanna do great things and i think it's best to just do what you can with what you have in where you are in focus on that but that's kind of that that's my kaizen is my my big a take away that i that has helped me a lot of areas of life but i think more people a kid can benefit from if they understand that the tiny ridiculous steps that you take can really have a big impact of the long run really well you eat in elephant right at one but yeah absolutely i i got real lazy about fluffing and i just got one of those things shoot water you're water water water water 'cause i just a dentist will tell you it's not the same i know i gotta do one two three time you i'm also a problem with the with the philosophy thing but the dentist always gives me cram about are you doing it and i'm like oh gee we do the thing where like two weeks before you're like you're all of a sudden you're like okay i gotta go down and get get hurt 'cause i don't wanna get the c minus some great have you been wildly absolutely i've been watching everyday just leave out the two week part any of the google that word again what was the guy's ties and highs he's a little by little by little pieces yeah i i i deal with manufacturing a lot and we do a lot of lean manufacturing stuff very very cool good good good stuff super cool okay ryan what do you gonna we're gonna oscar all right well we liked the guests you know since they're shown in title it is their show it is these are show we just gotta show up every week or just it is ashley show did you know that actually no ashley mc i can't go k k k o b most forgot mitch mitch mitch game it was the title is getting stuck three universal steps to exiting a business i wanna know more about this yeah tell us about where yeah guess wrap it up in like two or three minute don't do as a kid is long as you want ford on south you're mode tires well i wear down from where did this get unstuck you come from what's the what's the stuck there you're talking about i'm curious well i saw a lot of business the owners a particularly well throughout their business career 'em and running their business sarah they're mostly had down anare focusing on running their business in when it comes time to start starting starting to think about okay well maybe i wanna maybe i wanna pull back from the business maybe i wanna reduce when i'm working maybe i won't accept altogether every tire it's challenging to do that because you most business owners i in my experience don't know how to make that shift and so they're still stuck in this i'm working in my business every day and i don't really know how to back away from that without blowing out my business process and so it it it's there's a lot of stuck in that one i have conversations with business owner clients who wanna retire but they just don't know how to get there and a lot of but a lot of people work work work work and then they're trying accent and then i don't wanna face not working because i've been doing yeah and you know that's a challenge to an end it's a valid concern i think a lot of business owners will bury their head in the sand about accepting 'em but because they derive their businesses often their baby especially if they're the founder and they derive their entire you know purpose in identity and all of that is wrapped up in their business end so it's very scary prospect to think well gosh what the heck am i gonna do with my life and there's a lot of research not just with business owners but people in general who transition to retirement after the initial euphoria of why have all this time and do all these things that i didn't have time to do when i was working after that kind of wears off if you're not careful you can get bored and depressed and you kind of lose their purpose you don't have as many social contacts that you did it work and so there's a lot of negative things that can happen when people retire so it's a valid concern that business owners have that they're like oh i'm not sure i'm not i you know i know i want to retire someday i know i don't wanna keep doing this forever or maybe i'm working way too much and i just wanna a doubt that back in a so everybody's path to the accident in their retirement it looks a little bit different but the key is figuring out how to how to stay on that path how what that looks like and how to manage that without blowing up business 'cause if you just back if you go from working sixty hours a week to working one day a week you can't do that over night 'em drive me crazy i i'd say i'm gonna work until i die i love what i do i don't know but a lot of people don't understand within exit you you gotta have a company that's not just you that and i don't mean i don't mean a solo per newer i mean there's a lot of companies have lots of employees and stuff but it's built around one person and it's not sellable just exactly yeah actually it's a it's a business revolves around you as a business owner you're potentially leaving hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions of dollars depending on the size if you're a business on the table because if if you as the owner are critical to the operations of the business no that's not a marketable business to an outsider or even an insider either so but it's interesting because there are things that i think a lot of business owners would be very satisfied wits 'em making themselves obsolete in terms of like the day to day operations but still being involved still maintaining you know percentage of ownership and so the beauty of running in owning a business is that when you quote unquote we tire it doesn't have to go from working full time to full time retired overnight a that could be transition period that can happen in business owners have the flexibility to do that but they have to have the right people the management the next generation running the business so that they can step away and there's a lot of other things that go into that to like having processes an efficiency but it's mainly about people if you do not have the people who can replace you a then you don't have a marketable or sellable business or if you do it's worth a lot less that would otherwise be worse so true there speaking of books there's a great book out there with all of that in it built to sell if you heard of them both built that i haven't read it down yeah i i it it it it's exactly what his that's exactly what says it's exactly what he's talking about you you can't sell a business that's that's about you you have have processes and procedures and anybody can step into any job if they need to you can hire people on go i mean it's it's actually a great book especially for service companies 'cause a lot of service companies don't realize most service companies are very sellable you may have turned it into a product even though it's a service yeah yeah and i find that's a very common in in my industry in any financial advisory in cpa's attorneys all those are very challenging 'cause a lot of it is about the personality of of the owner so so true well cool also is that do you have a book no you so you just speak on this and i do yeah i i speak on yeah so where can people get a hold of ashley betray mitch mitch mitch mitch k us william yeah that says i'm like oh i've got this and then i don't got it what is the new material it's so it's so hard i always joke was people who like look at my name but don't know how to stay safe you pronounce my name correctly i'll give you a million dollars i never had the right that i why oh so we got a plant so i'm going to her plays i don't care i always shirt to clarify that i'm not gonna actually write you a million dollar check i'm gonna write you and i you know if you ask my husband i never pay on any bad ever very smart lady very very well i'd say about integrity a life isn't interesting thing is beautiful beautiful thing ashley thank you so much for being on the show i think we got some really really cool insights good gold nuggets in anything any last words morgan you've been quiet over there he's been texting me chat and you kind of just a gift support the cause and all the guys at variety you guys have been they've been taking notes while you've been talking good notes here for any last words right now thank you ask sleeper joining us for this crazy ride we call the bits forget showing showing up in in coming from portland their love it will cover on the streets of portland the panhandling so can you tell us where can everybody get a hold of you would website's any of that stuff yeah so i the website is true north are eight dot com and actually if you go true north ari dot com forward slash value my business i have a really unique cool tool that will allow business owners with just a few pieces of information in about five minutes get a really good strong estimate of their business value which is truly understand what your business is worth is the first step to getting on suck so we make that available to anyone who wants to use it for free 'em and i've had so much good feedback from clients and people who all of a sudden they see what their business is worth and now they they know the path forward to what is the euro jim it's true north are eight dot com forward slash value my business slash were looking it up right now 'cause we like to do stuff like that so we also put these links on the website and stuff so people could also find it awesome yeah so they'll get lifetime access to the tools seeking value you're business today in value of business year from now a an you could updated anytime as well and it's it's always free and then there's a i provided pdf checklists make it easier together they information an i have a tutorial video that walks you through the valuation software tools so if you're one of those people who shies away from technology 'em i walk you through the whole process such only takes about five minutes awesome awesome well ashley thank you so much for being on the show we like to a get a little crazy to end the show a ryan you're gonna take us out a yeah so we always in the show with three hash tags 'em hashtag be good do good and then we get crazy in loud and we try now to bobby on the third z get louder and louder so this where she ready ashley we step up a notch you'll you'll so he's at hashtag hashtag be good to get three times yes right hashtag be good do good things being now reason kids there okay that's that's that's a good friend thank you for listening to the ben ferguson show podcast we wanna think are

glenn james ceo ryan kevin ashley mitch mitch k pretoria mitch akkad ashley ashley mitch k portland oregon one day five minutes thirty million dollars million dollars million dollar hundred years three minute sixty hours ten years
Democrats vow to investigate Buzzfeed report that Trump directed Michael Cohen to lie to Congress about Moscow Tower project, Trump slams Cohen's father-in-law after Buzzfeed reports Trump had Cohen lie to Congress about project in Russia, New York Times:

Erin Burnett OutFront

48:39 min | 1 year ago

Democrats vow to investigate Buzzfeed report that Trump directed Michael Cohen to lie to Congress about Moscow Tower project, Trump slams Cohen's father-in-law after Buzzfeed reports Trump had Cohen lie to Congress about project in Russia, New York Times:

"Tired of spending hundreds of dollars prescription glasses. Xeni offers thousands of affordable eyewear styles starting at just six ninety five visits any today at Zanny dot com slash CNN. Next a Manding answers Democrats vowing to investigate the bombshell report. The President Trump told his fixer to lie under oath. Plus, the president saying he's making a major announcement tomorrow about the shutdown why and why was my pump Eos wife traveling with him on an official trip to the Middle East in the middle of government shutdown. Let's go out front. Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett out front tonight. Democrats calling for an investigation into the explosive report. The President Trump told Michael Cohen to lie under oath to congress BuzzFeed reporting, the bombshell details they are saying a reporter has seen documentation proving the president committed a felony crime. The chairman of the house intelligence committee and House Judiciary committee's tonight. And by the way, the judiciary judiciary committee is where impeachment proceedings would begin are. Now both calling for investigations and the White House response to the bombshell report was deeply disturbing. They took sixteen hours to unequivocally refute it. That's absolutely ridiculous. I think that the president's outside counsel address this best and said in a statement earlier today this categorically false, okay. This was again, sixteen hours after BuzzFeed reported that according to to law enforcement officials Michael Cohen was instructed to lie by Donald Trump specifically to tell congress under oath that negotiations to build a Trump Tower in Moscow ended before the primaries, which of course, was blatantly false. They continued months after that not to be clear CNN has not independently confirmed buzz fees report, but it is the talk of the day. And now there are congressional investigations about to start as a result. And if true the report implicates, the president in a federal crime up until Sanders categorical denial sixteen hours after that report all we heard from the president and the White House where attacks on Michael Cohen himself, not denials of the facts, but attacks on Cohen, the president tweeting that Cohen is quote lying to reduce his jail time. And from the White House this. I'm not going to give any credence or credibility to Michael Cohen. Who's a convicted felon in ended emitted liar? Now, according to BuzzFeed Cohen is actually not the source of the allegations. They wrote quote, the special counsel's office learned about Trump's directive for Cohen to lie to congress through interviews with multiple witnesses from the Trump administration organization and internal company emails text messages and a cache of other documents and the next line is key Cohen, then acknowledged those instructions during his interviews with that office that is significant right. They're saying Cohen then acknowledged because if true it shows Muller's team had the evidence that Trump told Cohen to lie all lined up, and then they can find it Cohen so short Coen's Aligarh. Everyone knows that when Cohen was sentenced to prison. Federal prosecutors made it clear they didn't trust him either. Again, they trusted other information. They already had. They said, quote, the information Cohen provided was useful. Only to the extent that he corroborated information already known to the new York Attorney General no one seems to be trusting Cohen. They seem to be trusting other facts that are out there and tonight Democrats. Congress calling for investigations and those powerful chairman of those two committees are right now on the case that'd be Philip is out front live outside the White House and abbey as you've got these these these investigations now calls for investigations from Democrats into this bombshell report, the White House response to the story seemed to shift throughout the day. There has been a notable volition in. How the White House has responded to the story Erin from this morning. It seemed that the strategy was simply to undermine Michael Cohen attack. Buzzfeed news as more fake news. And not even answer. The underlying question about whether or not the president committed a federal crime. Now, it appears that after many many hours, the White House is following the lead of the president's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani calling this report, categorically falls, but I think in this effort to shift from attacking Cohen to denying the claim you see a White House who has been burned in the past by denying some of these stories only to have them be proven true, and perhaps giving them more life now. One person. We haven't really heard anything from from his own mouth is President Trump. We didn't see him at all today that we did hear from him on Twitter tomorrow. However, the White House has announced that he is making an announcement on the government shutdown and on the border crisis. It's not clear what exactly he's going to say. But it is another opportunity for President Trump to retake the narrative here in the public eye perhaps to take the upper hand over Nancy Pelosi, but also perhaps to get some other unsavory headlines about this Russia investigation out of the news. But with the shutdown that's a real question. President Trump remains with the power to end this shutdown at any moment will he do that tomorrow? It's not clear and the White House won't say they won't rule out the possibility that he might declare a national emergency. But White House officials won't say what more he's going to announce tomorrow afternoon at three pm here at the White House era. All right, Abby. Thank you very much. I mean it's stunning week for this president, right? Who earlier in the week was forced to directly say, I am not an agent of the Russia. Government. I'm not a Russian agent. I mean and absolutely stunning week with this capstone of this explosive report out front tonight democratic congresswoman vowed Demings who sits on the intelligence and judiciary committees and congresswoman I appreciate your time. Right. Chairmanship chairman now there they want investigations into this report. What is going to happen? Now. How will your committee investigate wherein is good to be with you tonight? And let me just say this as we know over the last two years, we have really not provided the necessary oversight or demanded accountability as we should have other Republicans just refuse when they were in charge. The whole the White House this administration or any of his enablers accountable. But let me say this the gavel is now in different hands. And if the president of the United States directed his personal attorney to lie under oath to congress. We are going to hold him accountable, and that's all of our options up to and including impeachment. Either leave the American people have a right to know, we are a nation of laws, and we are going to. To be relentless in our efforts to uncover the truth and get to the bottom of it is it grounds for impeachment. If your investigation shows that that had happened that the president directed co into lie under oath to congress is that grounds for impeachment. If the president of the United States direct, it his personal attorney to lie under oath. I do believe that that rises to the level of impeachment. But impeachment may not be the main concern that the president of the United States should have. Because we really have not answered the issue about whether a sitting president can be indicted, but what I can guarantee you is through the dude is Sherry committee and the intelligence committee. We're going to hold the president accountable. Do you think he can be indicted, obviously, when we talk about this for a normal citizen something like a crime of this nature right is a federal crime. It would result in jail time. Do you think he could be indicted? You know, I'll tell you this as a twenty-seven year a law enforcement officer, and what we're talking about. Here is not some very simple minor valet of the law. We're talking about a serious felony. And what we do know is that there is absolutely nothing other than opinions that have been written to say that a sitting president cannot be indicted. What I do know is that this president, you all earn it during his campaign say that he could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and not be held accountable or responsible for it. I believe the president is underestimating the American people, we are a nation of laws, and we'll see what happens so congresswoman when you investigations calls for investigation tonight as you point out, the gavel is in your hands democrat hands. Have you talked to your colleagues across the aisle Republicans will they support this investigation into whether Cohen lied at Trump's direction, you know, Aaron let me just say this if it. Has proven an I do believe if this is true, certainly the special counsel would have corroborating information. I know the president's personal attorney is trying to say that is just Michael coins. Word, but the personal attorney also said there was no collusion. And then he said that he never said that what I do believe there would be corroborating evidence. And I believe my colleagues on the other side of the owl when present it with the facts, the overwhelming evidence that may exist. It would leave them with no other choice, but to support accountability. Right. And as you point out again, according to the report one of the reporters, there's two that are on at one of them has seen. Independent cooperation texts emails things that would prove this. I which they then obviously saying they confronted Michael Cohen with that. He obviously a known liar is not the source. They confronted with him after they had other sources, you know, what do you make a congresswoman of the fact that the White House took sixteen hours to refute this. I mean, the people who were sent out to refute it or people who would have no idea whether it's true ogan Gidley among them. Right. And yet he goes ahead and impugns Michael Cohen. Why do you think it took them sixteen hours to switch from making this about Michael Cohen to saying, oh, wait a minute. We're going to actually refute the whole thing. You know, Aaron that is really troubling. I mean, just like when the president was asked the other day if he was basically a Russian spy. And also now here we are talking about the president being directed to directing some water instructed someone to lie. When they under oath to congress. I believe it obviously took the White House sixteen hours to try to craft a response that perhaps the American people would buy or believe, but what I can tell you again is that we take our job very very seriously, and we're going to provide the necessary oversight that I believe the American people want to see. So regardless of what response of the White House struggles to craft we're going to hold them accountable. All right, congressman Demings. I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you. Thank you and out front next. As Michael Cohen prepares to go before congress. Again, he says this time to tell the truth. The president is now going after Cohen's family is this witness intimidation. Plus the White House reportedly leaking house speaker Nancy Pelosi's plans to fly commercially to Afghanistan. So why is Sarah Sanders saying? They didn't do it. They did do it. They did it. They did it. They leaked it to the New York Times. And President Trump accused of pushing a racially charged story about prayer rods found at the border. Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Our friends at Zanny optical, operate huge variety of high quality stylish frames and state of the art optics starting at just six ninety five. You can get multiple frames with this great pricing for less than one pair. Elsewhere start building your eyewear wardrobe from the comfort of your own home at Xeni dot com. With the latest trends in eyewear available in hundreds of frame styles and materials there isn't a better way to change it up for every season. Plus, there's any offers prescription sunglasses at incredible prices. Visit Xeni today at Xeni dot com slash CNN. That's z dot com slash CNN. Tonight. President Trump hitting back and Michael Cohen Democrats in congress demand investigations into the BuzzFeed report that there is documentation proving Trump told co into lie under oath about Trump and Russia. Trump tweeting about Cohen quote lying to reduce his jail time. Watch father in law. Now, you might kind of dismiss that except for you wouldn't because it is not the first time that Trump has brought up Cohen's father in law. He should give information maybe on his father-in-law because that's the one that people want to look at because where does that money that's the money in the family? And I guess he didn't wanna talk about his father tried to get his sentence reduced. So it's pretty sad. He you know, it's week at his very sad to watch thing like that. I couldn't care less. What is this father-in-law's name? I don't know. But you'll find out. Now from the Nixon White House counsel John dean, former assistant US attorney for the southern district of New York. Harry Sandik and New York Times columnist Frank Bruni are airy Trump has done this again and again right bringing Coen's bother in law. What's he doing? It's totally inappropriate. He's trying to influence Coen's willingness to testify by implicitly threatening Cohen's father-in-law with prosecution now, I have no idea whether Coen's father-in-law's done anything wrong or not. But you're not supposed to link the two and you're not supposed to try to pressure a witness. So this is this is wrong. And I think it comes close if not amounts to some sort of obstruction or witness tampering, and John you say it is witness tampering or intimidation. It appears to be he certainly is flagging his father in law for some kind of a tension that probably the father in law doesn't want. He obviously knows about Michael's family from his days of being his employees and in the office. So it is a threat. I agree with Harry, just it's totally inappropriate and very dangerous. And obviously, you know comes in the context of Collins going to jail for three years, right? There's been all kinds of conversations about the family, it cetera clearly threatening interesting, Harry that he's doing it over the airwaves does this in almost every case, right? Whether it's dangling pardons or threatening people the guy does it publicly. He can't seem to contain himself. Wait for the tweet wait for the calling into, you know, Fox News, and he's he shouldn't be doing these things. And I'm sure his lawyers if they are conscientious who telling him to stop, but they can't control their client. No. And he's decided this is the line wants to go down. I mean, Frank this comes as Michael Cohen is going to testify again in front of congress. Okay. In contact with this whole thing that maybe he lied last time before the house oversight committee on February seven and by the way, he's going to jail for other lives. He told to I mean, so. All right. How worried should the president be about what Colin's going to say Cohen? I believe has said that he's going to talk about what a madman Trump is. You're gonna we're gonna we're gonna learn a lot about Donald Trump in this. You know, I think the person should be very worried because I think Michael Cohen is going to talk about some of the things he's talked about. But also other things because he's going get ask questions by lawmakers that are designed to sort of show what a madman Donald Trump is. And Donald Trump strategy. Here's a little odd because you would think that with Cohen about to go and is February seventh right that he's gonna talk. You would think you would not want to goad him into saying the worst possible things. But by firing these shots across the bow by threatening his father in law, by the way, his father in law is not presidents father-in-law's not accused of colluding with Russia. So to turn this around and say, let's look at combs father-in-law. That's the real source of concern. I mean that's come on. Right. I mean, Harry, you've got this BuzzFeed story. Democrats have jumped on it. They say it needs to be investigated. Obviously, it's a felony. If if someone were to be indictable, they could go to. Jail for that. Right question as to whether that that applies to the president. And then if you just heard congresswoman Demings, but she just said clearly that if Trump did telco and to lie to congress right to lie under oath that rises to the level of impeachment. Absolutely. It does. It's a crime number one. Number two. It's an abusive power. President Clinton was impeached for among other things trying to tell a witness to make false statements, and obviously that was part of Watergate encouraging people to make false statements. I don't have any doubt that that's a beach people, and it's logical that congress would investigate this the timing of investigation. And how they do it lots of open questions, and that's a move John. I think when you hear, you know, I think a lot of people on Capitol Hill of tried to be judicious and careful about how they've said things, and they and they still are they want the facts. That's how it should be. Right. But they're now saying look, I if this is the case that is what we're talking about. Right. There's no beat. Around the Bush here. Well, I hear the chairman of the committees that could have jurisdiction over some of this testimony saying that they want to get to the bottom of. But I doubt the leadership is ready to go yet. They wanna get a cue from the Senate that the Senate is possibly interested in pursuing this. You've got to remember that vacant and they could impeach and the Senate wouldn't even hold a trial under Mitch McConnell. They would just let it sit there. Right. Right. And thought. Thought crucial, especially when you think about right? I mean, you can be impeached and nothing happens. Right. Because it happens in the house. You know, when it comes to the standard here, Frank. I think it's really interesting, right? Lying. Clinton lied. And if you lie tell someone to lie under oath, okay, Donald Trump, of course, has weighed in on impeachment. He thinks that lying is enough to have you be impeached, even if you don't lie under oath. Okay. In fact, he was asked about it. And whether whether then speaker Nancy Pelosi should impeach President, George W Bush. Yes, she's involved and Trump's weighing in on impeachment and let me play it. I was surprised that she didn't do more in terms of Bush and going after Bush. It was almost it just seemed like he was going to really look to impeach Bush and get him out of office. Which personally, I think would have been a wonderful teacher absolute for the war. Put a war of the conduct late lied. He got us into the war with lies. Donald Trump has high standards for everyone, but himself this this this gets added to the long list of things that you probably wishes. He'd never said boy what a trove of these bits from the past. We have with them. Listen, I agree with Harry hundred percent, if this is true, if this BuzzFeed story is true, this is absolutely impeachable. But I also think what John said is very important, which is there's a separate question. Whether Republicans who have swallowed their pride and bitten their tongues for two years now, whether they're gonna come around to seeing these things as gravely as they should. And whether if House Democrats impeached him that would lead to anything in the says Mitt Romney mitt Romney's the world are not enough. Even presuming you could get someone like him right there, you need more than they're very rare. And on top of that if that was Democrats impeached him, and there was no support on the other side. Remember, Bill Clinton was ultimately strengthened politically by each mint because people felt that the Republicans have gone too far. And yet, John, you know, what's interesting in that sound bite. We just heard right. Donald Trump standards. I don't like someone. So I. It'd be a wonderful thing to impeach them. And lying about the war. Not under oath would be standard for for impeach for impeachment itself. It is pretty ironic to hear those words now. Well, he is on so many sides of every issue that it doesn't surprise me to hear this claim about impeaching George H W Bush. He he's just he's unpredictable, and he doesn't nothing means anything to him. He has no underlying principles or philosophy. So is just him getting attention at the time. And I don't think that you know, he really knows what he's talking about when he's addresses most of these issues as well, if the defense automatically comes down to with whatever is proven by the facts who have occurred. I didn't think I was gonna win. So I wasn't trying to collude or do anything. I was just trying to go ahead with my business at the same time. If that's the best he can do is that enough. I think from a legal perspective, that's very weak. That's nothing yet from a political perspective. You know, as everyone has said tonight. We don't really know what the Senate has the tight to do with this. And so I do agree with the. Sense that if there isn't going to be a serious trial and a possibility of removal, it may not be in the interest of the House Democrats to press this, but from a legal perspective to say. You know, I didn't think I was going to win. And that's why did all of this very very weak. They're a pretty scary to imagine. If you get to a legal point at you know, as just an American citizen where where where someone had a felony crime and should be impeached, and you don't do it because politically the laws don't matter. That's a really scary thing to say that that's the world that we could be living in. All right. Thank you all very much a next President Trump tweeting plans to deliver what he calls a major announcement about the border. I think he thinks it's time to change the subject plus secretary of state. Mike Pompeo's white there UCR joining him on an official trip to the Middle East. They required more staff to work during the shutdown without being paid shopping trip. Details what was she doing there? Because you know, the government is shut down. Remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash CNN. Tonight, the White House. Leaking speaker Pelosi's plans to fly commercially to Afghanistan, but New York Times reporting that White House sources reveal Pelosi's new plans to buy commercial into a war zone late Thursday night. Now Pelosi says that leak forced her to cancel her commercial plans because their security was put at risk the White House. Firmly denies the leak an official telling CNN the quote, the idea we would leak anything that would put the safety insecurity of any American at risk is flat out lie. Then according to the New York Times they called up Thursday night, and they leaked it the New York Times. So that's obviously blatantly false. Phil Mattingly is out front and fill the president said he cancelled Pelosi's trip. So she could stay to negotiate right? That was in the letter lateral. Don't ghanistan you should be here with me. But there are no negotiations happening this long weekend. If that was the goal there wasn't really any follow through beyond just taking away the military aircraft to take the congressional delegation to Afghantistan, I'm told there were no phone calls between Democrats and the White House today. There were no proposals traded, and they're certainly were no meat. Ding invitation speaker Pelosi is actually not in Washington DC anymore. She left town a couple of hours ago in the reality remains the same as far as it goes between Democrats and the president. There are no talks. There are no clear pathways forward. Now as you noted before the break, the president tweeted earlier tonight that there was going to be a major announcement tomorrow at the White House. I'm told Democrats are not aware of what that announcement would be in. Here's kind of the issue with that, regardless of where the president goes Mitch McConnell. The Republican Senate majority leader has made clear that whatever ends up being the final pathway out of this is going to have to come through negotiations between the president and congressional Democrats negotiations that is, you know, have not taken place. So that raises a question as to whatever the president announced tomorrow is it going to be something that can actually get out of the shutdown because in order to get out of the shutdown you need Democrats Democrats who currently are not in town. Some of them won't be back until Tuesday someone won't be back until the week after that. And that just kind of leaves everybody's scratching their heads right now. Wondering a what the president is going to announce in B is it actually going to move the ball. Anywhere. Because Aaron is, you know, quite well, we're twenty one twenty eight days into this. And to be Frank. They are no closer to a resolution now than they were on day. One. Okay fell. Thank you very much. So let's go now to democratic congressman Dan Kildee of Michigan. He is the chief deputy whip congressman. Okay. So there's this announcement the president is going to be making a major announcement. He calls it concerning the humanitarian crisis on the southern border and the shutdown. Are you aware of what it's about? I have no idea, and I don't I don't know that anybody does the president is teasing his own announcement like he's teasing. You know, the next episode of a game show. This is really serious business is the president has an announcement to make he should just say it. So that these people who are working without pay and the people in this country who are being threatened by the impact of this shutdown can move on with the president has something to say stop playing games just say it. So do you think that it could be something like he's reopening the government, but declaring the national emergency to do his wall. Is that what you expect it is or not up to that line? Who knows? I mean, I stopped trying to predict this president's behavior because it's so erotic and the truth of the matter is it's not really up to him to reopen. The government, you know, I I I read article one of the constitution again this morning. Mitch McConnell could simply do his job, and we could get government open again for some reason Mitch lacks the courage to upset this president. I don't know why. But he has a responsibility. He's sworn oath to the constitution. Article one vests the ability to make these decisions in the congress, and we can enact a budget without the president's signature, if we simply do what Mitch was willing to do a few weeks ago devote, well, they had voted and then you all voted on pieces of it to go. But that Joe vote that he's not doing what you're I understand. You're referring to the independence. We passed the very same spending bills that the Republican led Senate pastures few weeks ago with over. Helming numbers. And then of course, the president the president backed out. And now here we are. I mean, look in his letter to the speaker Trump said, quote, it would be better if she was in Washington trying to work out a deal. But then he didn't set up any talks. There's no invitation there's nothing so she's she's gone and he's doing the speech on his own. She's not scheduled to be back until Tuesday, which I just want to point out his three days before another zero dollar paycheck goes out to eight hundred thousand Americans chemic- government formally reopened before then. You should be able to. And like I said, I don't mean to be a broken record Mitch McConnell. The Republicans in the Senate have the ability to get the government open notwithstanding the president's erratic in I believe, psychologically, unbalanced behavior. This guy is really going off the rails. We need to step up and do what the framers expected us to do and provide a check on a president who clearly is incapable of the basic responsibilities of the office that he holds. So when you say that are you calling article twenty five or. Did you say he's in capable of serving? Unfortunately, article twenty five requires those around the president his direct appointees to initiate some action, and because of the departures of the last remaining responsible members of his cabinet. He's he's surrounded by a group of sycophants who seemed to just jump whenever he says jump in cower whenever he gets angry and tweets I wish I was exaggerating. And this is this is really a bad situation for our country, but the framers anticipated this moment, and that's why they vested in congress and the house and the Senate the ability to override a rogue presidency. And so while I could continue to observe the president's behavior and criticize it, I think the more important thing for the American people to do is to demand that the United States Senate do its constitutional duty and get the government open again. And then we can move forward with an honest debate about border security or any other. Issue. But this is a moment that requires us to to look at the oath and the constitution that we swore that oath to and step up. I want to ask you about the report today that the chairman both of the house intelligence committee chairs and the House Judiciary committee chairs now say they want investigations into the report by BuzzFeed, right? The report that says the president told Michael Cohen directed him to lie under oath. What's your reaction? While the report indicates that there's corroborating evidence, and I think for for those charged with responsibility, we need to see that evidence. I do agree with one of my colleagues. I can't recall a witch that indicated that it might be time. I think was Senator Murphy that said it might be time for Mr. Muller to begin to provide to the congress. The necessary information we need to do our job that may not. Constitute a complete report. But if he has evidence that questions the presidents of veracity and actually questions whether or not he is suborned perjury. We need to know that as soon as that those facts are basically if this is true, and there's crop rating evidence and Muller has it which is what the report is at this point you need that evidence. Now, this this is leaked out you need it. I believe we do. I mean, I have taken the position that we need to await the mullahs report before those big questions are answered. But this report is really troubling. We can't base it simply on a single reporting from a single news source. But if the indication is that there's evidence we need to know. All right. Well, I appreciate your time. Congressman thank you very much. Thank you. And next. This is BS that is from one official after the secretary of state Mike Pompeo brought his wife on an official trip to the Middle East during the shutdown. What was she doing? Well, guess what? No. And you're gonna find out plus President Trump accused of pushing an unfounded racist. Conspiracy theory tonight will Republican speak up. The right sheets can take your sleep and your style to the next level with Boll and branch. The upgrade has never been more affordable. Every set is crafted from one hundred percents organic cotton. They get softer and softer over time. That's why they have thousands of five star reviews and even three US presidents have Boll and branch sheets. Try them for thirty nights. And if you don't love them, send them back for a full refund. Go to bollandbranch dot com today for fifty dollars off your first set of sheets, plus free shipping with promo code CNN to spelled B O L L, andbranch dot com. That's bollandbranch dot com, promo code CNN too. Spokesperson for the special counsel. Robert Muller's office is disputing buds feeds article the article says, according to to law enforcement officials Michael Cohen was instructed to lie by Donald Trump under oath specifically to tell congress under oath that negotiations to build a Trump Tower in Moscow ended before the primaries. Now, a special counsel has just come out with a statement. I wanna read it to you responding to BuzzFeed saying buzzfeed's description of specific statements to the special counsel's office and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office regarding Michael Coen's. Congressional testimony are not accurate that is according to spokesman car for Robert Muller's office. I want to go straight to Sara Murray. All right, Sarah, highly unusual. We would get a statement from the special counsel's office because we never get statements from the special counsel's office. Not even to say what they ate for lunch. Literally. This is a big deal. Well, it is a huge sealer and the most we get from the special counsel's office is an off the record comment. So to see them put out a pretty fulsome state. Like, there's to essentially say look this. Buzzfeed report is not accurate that is very big deal. And I think that you are seeing a response that they probably did not want to put out there today. Obviously, it took them quite some time to move forward into to make this response public. But we're seeing it in the wake of all of these democratic lawmakers coming out today pointing to this BuzzFeed report and saying if this is true essentially this is grounds to move forward with impeachment proceedings. We've seen committee members saying we want to dig into this. We want to try to find the underlying documents the underlying witnesses behind this. And again, if it's true would have been obstruction of Justice would have been the president trying to convince a witness to commit perjury would have essentially been the grounds for impeachment proceedings. And that I think is why you're seeing this special counsel's office take this sort of unprecedented step of issuing a statement like this. You know, we know they don't want to be in the habit of thing. This is right. This is wrong. They're not supposed to be commenting about ongoing investigations. But obviously, this was a very different kind of story. Well, that's right. And we just heard congressman kill these say look. Now that this is out. There Muller owes us an answer. And it now seems like they're trying to do that. Now. Is there anything to read between the lines, Sarah? Right. When when we go through what they're saying. Right. The BuzzFeed report was was saying they had two sources, right. And the one of the reporters said they'd actually seen the underlying corroborating evidence, and that they had all these text messages and emails and that they got all that and knew it to be true. And then confronted Cohen. I mean, it's quite explicit. But the special counsel is specifically saying the characterization of documents and testimony. Is not accurate. I mean, it it seems to be very clear rebuttal right there. Just as explicit in their responses, as you know, BuzzFeed was about saying, look, this is not just based on you know, these people's perceptions. They've seen these documents. They're aware of all these documents, especially counsels, saying, you know, this is just not an accurate portrayal of sort of the the information the documents the testimony that the special counsel has at their disposal. And you know, obviously, Erin we've we've all been in a difficult position with this report. No, one else has been able to confirm it we've been saying that on the air over and over again that CNN couldn't independently confirm it, and even the BuzzFeed reporter said they hadn't seen, you know, these sort of underlying evidence here and now the special counsel saying, well, we haven't seen this underlying evidence either it's not accurate as far as we're concerned. All right. So Sara stay with me. I want to bring back Harry Sandik and John dean, Harry, what do you make of this at the special counsel is coming out with a statement? Obviously extenuating circumstances, right? They now owed an answer to to. Congress right which was saying this would be a crime this'll be a felony. This would be impeachable. We demand an answer from Muller Muller is giving it this seems unequivocal. It does seem unequivocal many of us have said, you know, infants story is true. And that's of course, a major caveat. And I think that the special counsel recognizes that it does have something of an obligation to correct the record given where the public debate has headed over the past twenty four hours. And if it's not true, it's good. It's good that they spoke up and said that it isn't true. They don't want people to be misled. And so I think you learn the deviate from the usual normal and healthy practice. They follow to public comment and speak only in court said John dean, what do you think happened here? I mean, we need to know more details, but you had a news organization come out setting to law enforcement officials with direct knowledge saying there was crop rating evidence. Saying one of the reporters had seen it and special counsel's office as saying it blatantly isn't true. I mean, it sounds pretty terrible for BuzzFeed sounds very terrible proposed feed. I have a lot of faith in the fact that Muller never puts out statement. Or rarely and the other thing is I I looked at the reporters who were behind the story. I only know one of the Jason Leopold he's he's a fairly. He's a careful reporter. And I can't believe he would put out a bogus story. The other one is a Pulitzer prize winner, which makes it even more confusing. They're both investigative reporters, and they must have trusted their sources. So it they may have been misled by their sorta like I it's hard to tell this point. I mean, Sarah, it is pretty hard to understand what would happen here. I mean, nobody would come out and do something like this. If they knew it to be fall. So clearly they believed it would was true. And again, we need some more details on exactly what these documents were and how you could possibly that. They didn't never existed or if there's different interpretations of them. But what do you make of this where they lied to? You could certainly be. I mean, certainly there's always a possibility. Someone was lied to. There's also a possibility that, you know, whoever these federal law enforcement officials were they saw some subset of these documents. And they drew conclusions that maybe took leaps that are not backed up by the documentation there. Maybe they drew different conclusions and let the special counsel's office ruin this. It's just so difficult to know Erin, without knowing what was actually included in these underlying documents. I think that that this is the kind of story where because it has such fantastic consequences. Incredible sort of country like it changes the direction of the country, if the consequences of this story where real that we were going to move forward with impeachment proceedings that you want to be really careful on something like this. And I think that's why the BuzzFeed reporters took pains to say that there was all this underlying evidence. But, you know, obviously, the special counsel team is saying these documents that they don't exist in the way they're described in this story. All right. Well, thank you very much. Sara Murray, John, and Harry, obviously, we'll update you as we get more. But, but obviously, we have that very important rebuttal. On the special counsel's office this hour and next the president accused of tweeting a racist story about prayer rugs at the border. We're going to tell you exactly about what that means. Plus, why was Mike Pompeo's wife traveling with him on an official trip to the Middle East the extra staff in the middle of government shutdown? Steven universe. Cast members sat Calvin who voices. Stephen Michaela Dietz, the voice of amethyst and DD Magna hall voices Pearl. Join me McKenzie would talk diamond days on the Steven universe podcast. Can you do on because I love oh, gosh. I need a line. I tell me what to pass the beauty this Cutie house of beauty. This is cute. New ringtone what? Subscribe to the Steven universe podcast for free apple podcasts. Spotify. Wherever you listen to podcasts. New tonight secretary of state by Pompeo's wife, traveling with him on a fischel business requiring her own staff and security a surprising move at a time. When many State Department employees aren't getting paid because of the shutdown. Michelle Kaczynski is out front. Secretary of state Mike Pompeo, traveled through the Middle East, eight countries reassuring allies about the US's role, but it's the role of someone else who went on that trip on pay who's white Susan during the government shutdown that has raised questions among many State Department diplomats, according to one senior official this is B S. You don't bring more people than need staffing, transportation, etc. When embassy employees or working without being paid State Department says most diplomats abroad have not been paid during the shutdown so many had to come to work anyway to handle this trip for some requiring very long hours. Once was familiar with the planning till CNN. I've been outraged eyebrows were raised from the start. Why was this necessary? This wasn't a matter of national security. On pay described the trip as a working one for his wife as well. But she meets with the medical officers she'll to or housing she will write up her thoughts and comments after that. I I wish I had time to do each of those things myself, but she is a force multiplier. I will Susan Pompeo had a State Department employee dedicated to tending to her schedule at each location. She had her own state official and security to travel with her two meetings. She also required that staffing insecurity to shop at a local market, which sources say made her late for the next flight keeping the secretary and his team waiting on the plane at least a half hour, plus a crowd of officials waiting at the next stop another issue raised as what kind of notes and recommendations exactly Susan Pompeo will prepare as the secretary said she would he takes his wife and. Gives her responsibilities gives her support and taking that away from those same men and women during a shutdown during the time when they are particularly suffering. It sends a terrible message about a double standard one set of rules. Applies to me another set of rules applies to the working men and women of this department. And while it's not that common for secretary spouses to join them on these trips. It has happened. It's important that when they do that they have an itinerary that is justified for the trip that they are having engagement of their own that they are providing meaningful context normally wouldn't draw anger or even much notice necessarily. But this is a government shutdown people were called in and worked for free. So we got a lot of questions for the State Department about this. How many people were tasked with working with Pompeii whose wife and all of these stops. How many of them were paid how much did this cost? How much is she going to reimburse it has been days now in the State Department still hasn't answered those questions, even though of course, this trip is funded by tax payers. They just said at the beginning of the trip that this meets all of the rules and regulations at the State Department requires only once our story aired today, though, did they get back to us again, not answering all those questions we had. But they said that they wouldn't characterize one of the stops. We mentioned as a shopping trip. They said she was at the market, but she was there for a meeting with the wife of the king of Bahrain. And you might remember that she also came under some scrutiny when Pompeii was the head of the CIA for the amount of time. She spent there for traveling with him then as well. And also for using office space at the agency, Aaron I mean, you know, Michelle, I think. It's important to note that the reason that this is a story is because the president wrote the letter yesterday Pelosi right saying, it's a shutdown. You shouldn't be using these resources. So then when Malania Trump to use the government plan. That became a story of this to right? And also the fact that these people who we are told by multiple sources were supporting her at each of these eight stops they were not being paid not all of them. The State Department again won't share those numbers with us. But many of these people say that they were working around the clock not being paid and asking questions, why did Pompey's wife come along during this government shutdown? Thank you very much. Michelle is everyone obviously a little bit of a cough that okay? I want to go back to our breaking news though, right now the spokesperson for the special counsel Robert Muller's office, disputing BuzzFeed article that Michael Cohen was instructed to lie by Donald Trump under oath specifically to tell congress that negotiations to build that Trump Tower in Moscow. Before the primaries. Okay. Joe Walsh is with me. Ben Ferguson is with me. Sorry, guys. Obviously village hall with my throat. I want to get through the statement though, from from Peter car the spokesperson for Muller buzzfeed's description of specific statements as special counsel's office. Characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office regarding Michael Cohen's. Congressional testimony are not accurate. Joe nets. A huge statement. It is special counsel does not come at congress was demanding it, and that's like an incredible reputation of an article which said it was based upon actual evidence. It does. I mean, we're waiting for buzzfeed's response to this as well, which which we need, but it is something that has to set us all back. People have been have gone on and talked about impeachment people really took this very seriously because feed has has a good track record. They're sober reliable. Journalists. I don't I'm not going to jump to say they did something wrong. But it sounds like something is wrong. And I want to hear their their explanation. Right. I mean, Ben night is the crucial thing. Right. And you had people demanding investigations as as frankly, and the whole thing was the court was caveat it with well if true, okay if true, but this is clearly being disputed, but it's pretty stunning to have them be so specific, and it appears from this statement there is no grey area. At least that's the way it reads to two things here. Buzzfeed is not a serious news organization. They should be treated as such moving forward. You have to put out the dossier, which was absolutely wrong. This is embarrassing. They put this out there. This is unprecedented. At this came out from Miller's team, they have not done this before in a news article so to try to fit BuzzFeed, I think it's ridiculous and indispensable. What really bothers me though about those as she's the irrespon-. Well, you can say that. But they just got their brain. Kicked him by the special county. So what I'm going to side? I wouldn't I'm going to side with a special counsel office on this one. I trust way more than pause for one second. I just want to go back to Abby fill up at the White House. Trying to report on what the reaction is there from this abbey. What more can you tell us? Airing. There hasn't really been that much of a reaction tonight losing out to White House aides neither really silence from them. But you have to believe that this is going to be a major major indication for them. They tried this afternoon to really shoot down the story trying to undermine the credibility as I've beat. And then later when it was categorically falls now, it turns out that they're getting a little bit of a helping hand from the special counsel, the president of the taxes repeatedly in the past. But now it's running out to be something. That's very helpful to them. I think you've already been, you know, the president's son John junior on Twitter reacting with some even basically laughing emojis. I think that people are going to be taking a major victory lap here. But it's not clear whether they'll comment tonight or both beat them common, perhaps even from the president himself over the next few hours or days. He this is something that I think will be very advantageous to them. They try to make the case of a lot of the reporting on this. They'd been saying has not been accurate, and and they have did say the afternoon after delaying for sometime they did eventually say that it was solved. And I think that they're going to have an opportunity to really take victory lap on that. They certainly will. I mean, you know, of course, the strange thing was it took them sixteen hours to do that. But you've got this. Now, don't I mean, just emphasize your Democrats, of course, have jumped on this immediately. Some of them last night were quick, Twitter and jumping rights if true if true everybody and issue, but you did a lot of people who were jumping on it. They wanted investigations does all that stop now. No, there were only going to be investigations. There's more than enough reason to have investigation Trump. I mean into the visit question of other ways, whether it is worn perjury. I knew there shipping investigation now. Now as much as ever I mean, maybe they'll just prove it, maybe they'll show us exempt. Maybe an investigation will show us what BuzzFeed got wrong, it's not that an investigation has to come to a preordained outcome. Aaron it's there's something weird going on here. I think that they should investigate still bent. It's incredible. To me the irresponsibility of members of congress. I mean, congressman Castro's tweet with perfect. Quoting currently. Yeah. Right. If the BuzzFeed story is true. President Trump must resign or be impeached. You're gonna take that back. No. Because you that's not your narrative. That's not. What your prerogative is? You wanted to store the president others then went along with him. They're not going to take it back either. They're not gonna apologize. They're not going to be grownups. They're not going to be adults because congress and the Democratic Party has become so hateful towards his present. That even when they get information. That's wrong. You just heard it. They still want to actually investigate information that molars team is saying is completely false. He's saying it's true. But it's specific statements. Sure, they did they didn't say it was statement ever ever make it to stage. This you know, that everything clear they wanted to come out and record. A description. Yeah, we're not accurate. All right. I actually here. Because literally we gotta hand it off to Anderson. Thank you both very much for being with me in college is for the sun coughing. I'll be better on Monday. Thanks for joining us Anderson sex. Hey, Sekou Smith here from the hang time podcast. Join me and my main man John's humid every week as we break down, the latest, NBA, news and storylines with. Yes. From around the league, we should've subscribed to NBA hang time on apple podcasts. Spotify an NBA dot com slash podcast for new episodes every Monday and Thursday this season.

president President Trump congress Michael Cohen BuzzFeed special counsel CNN White House Trump Nancy Pelosi Robert Muller Middle East official Trump Tower Aaron Mike Pompeo Donald Trump Sarah Sanders reporter John dean
Lying To Liars

Part of the Problem

1:21:50 hr | 1 year ago

Lying To Liars

"We need to roll back. The state we spy why on all of our own citizens are prisons loaded with non violent drug offenders. If you WANNA know who America's next enemy is look at who were funding ending right now. One of these problems are government being way too big digital network Euro. It is up everybody. Welcome to a brand new episode of part of the problem. I am the most consistent motherfucker you know Dave Smith and I am reunited joined once again by Robbie the Fire Bernstein. The King of the Cox. What's going on my brother and I used to be back? Did good to have you back. Yeah you The AIDS hiatus. Yep I tried a new where there. It didn't really work. Now it's cool. You got to throw some things out. Never know what's GonNa stick but you are in violation of your hundred episode contract work. Yeah and my back episode. Now he's had a 'cause we have to go to arbitration. We've got to figure it works so hard that yeah. I don't know we'll see we'll see what happens. I have to talk to my legal team and see if I can go out of this fucking ago. Yeah you're my client had an AIDS related. They're pulling out from under. We're GONNA have a real Philadelphia situation. Yeah remember that movie. I never actually saw it. Yeah it's considered a classic though people really like Tom Hanks with AIDS yet was very was very groundbreaking in the ninety s aids was is all the rage aids was all the rage. When what was I talking about recently with that? Oh he was a the nine hundred one episode. Where were you on that podcast or was it me alone doing that one? It might have been making AIDS jokes when you weren't on the show but as me and Lawrence Lorne was like I'd never seen nine hundred okay and I was like you've never seen the show. I was like okay. Let's throw went on and and episode. Is this person. This woman with AIDS comes to speak to that kids and they're like Oh my God and the message of the nineties it was more like a more or less like look to the person on your left. Look to the person on your right. They will both die of AIDS so will you. Have you ever kissed a girl. Well then you already have it. So so what's the point of. Even the propaganda was so like insane and then they were basically like all these idiots think that AIDS is just a disease that affects gay people bolt. Well everyone's going to die from it and then it turns out that it's like whoever that guy was who said it's just gay people. He was a lot closer to the truth than you are at all like if you just had some some bigoted impulse to be like this is probably only something gays need to worry about. Yeah pretty much pretty much. That's how that went just gays and rob all right so for today's episode. Because we haven't done this in a while. I figured we would just take a bunch of of of listener questions comments from the part of the problem in our circle does rascals those rascals. They're a good group. They're a good group and they they have nothing else except this. If I didn't take their questions they I don't know what they would do the all weekend they'd just be pondering these things right there. These are the people who will start. You know committing mass shootings if you don't take their questions every now and then you got to listen to them anyway. The part of the problem inner circle are private facebook group. And you can join all you gotta do is become a supporting listener. GO OVER TO GAS DIGITAL NETWORK DOT COM And subscribe and Use Promo Code P.. Ot P. and you get a monthly discount then you also get access to all of our episodes on demand the entire archive history. It's it's the what is it now. It's five hundred and plus episodes five zero six today. This is five five ten Berm Holy Holy Shit they just fly by so that five hundred ten episodes you get all of that you also get access to all the other shows on the network archives on demand so it's it's just it's it's a great network work a great deal go over there and then you get to be a part of the part of the problem inner circle which is which is really a lot of fun and then every now and then I I'll take your questions and comments and I'm sure we'll get into. There are a couple things that I did want to talk about but I have a feeling they're gonNA come up in the question so let's get into them and then if if they don't come up we could. We could talk talk about that all right here. We go surgery or Sergei Sergei. That's what I want to say. Sergei says witness MS tampering and obstruction of justice via tweet. This is what I posted was. What do you guys want to hear US talk about today just so it doesn't sound like these people are just saying like sentence fragments fragments? That don't work anyway. Like bullet points witness tampering and obstruction of justice. By via tweet. So what he's referring to. Who is that now? They're accusing Donald trump of you know like bashing witnesses on his twitter account because he's been tweeting thing through the impeachment inquiry hearings you know like when the witnesses are full of Shit and one woman who was a witness was saying. She felt intimidated by his tweets or anything like that. Well well look I mean obviously the probably two points right that I would have to this. The first one is just obvious that it's like yeah no so she like even Donald Donald Trump. I think today said I have the right to speak. which is it was very trumpian? Just this very simple like statement that everyone gets up in arms about but then you're like I mean can you really really argue with the fact that he has the right to speak. This is like what you can accuse someone of wrongdoing. And they can't defend themselves. They're not allowed to so yeah. Of course it's not obstruction of justice or witness badgering to say something like yeah. You have the right to to talk and I. I would hope that that's like let's just look at it this way. If the president of the United States doesn't have the right to speak what hope to the rest of us have all right and isn't the idea that we're all we all have freedom of speech that that was one of the amendments. I can't remember which one but in that one of the amendments in the bill up they should have led with that. And there's and you you kind of see why that there would be a reason. I mean I'm not a constitutionalist but you could see where if you're writing a bill of rights freedom speech kind of makes sense to be number one number one right away. I got the right to say whatever I want to say number two I can have a gun. I do love that order. It's not gonna be like six or seven th like. Don't fuck your neighbor's life. Yeah me right at the top of the list with importance nap. That's actually the eighteenth amendment that you're referring to fairly got ratified barely got ratified. I had trouble making it out of Virginia anyway so the first thing is like obviously this is this is ridiculous. I can't he can tweet whatever he wants to. It's like when they said that that him tweeting that the The Russia investigation was a witch hunt was in some way obstruction of justice. I mean it's a real mind fuck to actually think that through it. It'll like hurt your head enough that you're like I can't even even argue with these people but that you would go. Were were investigating you for something which we concluded we have no evidence to indict you on but when you said that was this this was bullshit that's obstructing justice and that's what we're going to move to now it's like Holy Shit that's that's a mind fuck and of course it's all ridiculous but then the second point is that there's kind of a bigger thing going on here which is like you know when I was playing I played last episode on the show again. That Chuck Schumer quote when he said the deep state seven ways to Sunday to screw you and what he was saying actually took it back a little bit in the video because it's it's funny to see him go from his talking points to getting something and having an impromptu reaction to it but his talking point at the time was January two thousand seventeen trump was still president-elect and is talking point was will you can't president by tweet and I remember back when I was on. Se Cup show when they were talking about that they would say I remember actually saying on air but at one point where they're like you know don't you think Donald Trump should be working on his health care plan or this or that and the other instead of spending all his time tweeting leading and I said I was like well. I don't think that's a false choice like I don't I don't think he spent twelve hours. tweeting usually takes me about. I don't know forty seconds to formulate had a tweet and send it so. I don't think it's either this or figure out but you wonder you're like why are they also hostile about Donald trump using twitter. They really hate that. Ah they re they really really don't like that. Donald Trump is on twitter. All the time. And you're like why why I mean I don't know there's some tweets that I don't like of his there some tweets that are really great. There are some that are hilarious. There's some that are just riddled with misspellings. But why is it that they have such a problem with this and of course you guys you guys already know what it is right. It's obvious because he's speaking directly to you. He doesn't have to go through them. See normally what does the president have to do. He's got to talk to the media and they'll air the interview and they'll ask him the questions they want to ask. That's what the fucking corporate press. That's our role we get to decide what you people here. And what people know and Donald Trump now found a way to just go. Nope I'M GONNA go right around you directly to the people and just cut you out and they hey that they they absolutely hated it. Drives them crazy. And so that's what that's what's at the heart of all of this is that it's like they do not like the idea that we can cut them out and have a direct relationship to to somebody like a direct relationship to the president of the United States and especially with a guy like Donald Trump see. They didn't mind find with Obama so much I mean. First of all Obama didn't really play that game that much. Social Media's much bigger under trump than it was social media was brand new phenomenon under Obama but it also Obama was like I had this joke in my act where I would say Obama? Anytime he was asked a question he would always take a long pause and think about it. Like it'd be like Obama. What do you think about Blah Blah and you go well first of all? I think it's important and Donald Trump answers answers your question before you're done asking your question like you're like are we going to end the words that fake news moves at like he's just. Donald Trump is impulsive. And you can't control that right got so you don't know what the fuck is going to say so you better have some fucking ABC reporter. They're to fucking be in the middle of him talking and you because if Donald Trump can talk operate people donald trump might say something crazy like. There's a deep state that's out to get me or these wars are stupid or the media's the enemy of the people or any of this shit so that's that's what they don't fucking like they wanna take that away from him. Why do you think fucking a Kamala? Harris is out there. Talking about twitter should should ban Donald trump trump. And what a crazy thing yeah. She said that she brought that up at the presidential debate last time that twitter should ban donald trump. Pretty still the commander in chief of the military. He writes a cabinet tate speech. He shouldn't be allowed on twitter like what so. Now you just want to not know what the most powerful person supposedly the most powerful person is doing. Seems a little strange but yeah. That's a anyway all right. Jonathan Rights Frankfurters seems seems seems like Your Department Rob More hotdog talk what. There's nothing else. Just the worst sweaters. What about him giving me a lot to work with your buddy well? He's not asking if they're a sandwich or anything he's just saying. Thank your thoughts. We've talked about hot dogs a lot. Some SAUERKRAUT and mustard. Get the fuck out of here. Yeah that is the best way. Sarah Mustard hotdogs. I don't really like hot talk so much that it's like There's sometimes there's a situation you're in a boardroom. Yeah a baseball game. Maybe like a park out of the park. And someone was like one of those movable carts comes by the hotdog air like fuck. Yeah like I might go two years without eating a hot dog but then you know like you'll be in one of those moments and you'll be like fuck talk yet sauerkraut and mustard fuck that. That sounds fucking great right now with a beer. Yeah but it's got to be like the right time like you know if I came home home and and my wife was like I'm making hot dogs for dinner. I'd be like what the fuck is this marriage. We that making hot dogs for dinner. We lose everything. Usually I gotta log onto the bank account at a log onto my fucking dank APP because unless we lost everything this marriage is over. I better see negative seven dollars dollars in my account. We gotTA fucking talk. We gotTA start talking about. WHO's taken Leyla for Christmas? I guys let's take a quick second. Thank our sponsor the answer for today's show which is why the place for online gambling is bet. DSL DOT COM. They have over twenty years of experience in the business. They're top rated on business review sites super easy to use fast playing interface and they also have live in game wagering so you can bet on Games as they go. You can walk into a sports sports bar. It's halftime of a game and can lay down a bet right there on what you think's going to happen in the second half they also have great customer service available twenty four seven three sixty five and they've built a reputation on fast payments of winnings. And right now for you guys. We've got a great deal if you go to bed. DSL DOT COM use the Promo Code P. OT P. One twenty that way they know that we sent you so you'll be helping out the show and you have some options you can get bonus cash when you when you sign up If you do get the bonus cash you have to gamble a certain amount before you can withdraw your money so if you you just WanNa make a better to and then withdraw your money. Don't take the bonus cash but if you WANNA bet a whole bunch definitely take it because they give you sixty percent bonus cash up two thousand dollars so if you put a thousand dollars in you have sixteen hundred to gamble with one hundred dollars. Then you've got one hundred sixty dollars to gamble at so it's a cool deal once again. BET GSI DOT COM Promo Code P.. OT PT Eh. One twenty all right. Let's get back into the show anyway. okay Jason Rights Tommy Tommy. Boy Verse Black Sheep a lot it. Okay well let me say that it should be an easy one. This is an easy one. This is an easy one. And if you don't agree with me on this one I may not want you to listen. Listen to my podcast anymore. Let me just say I love both of those movies. So you're asking me to compare to things don't make I'm not going to sit here and act like I'm anti black sheep okay. Love Black Sheep got some great fucking great jokes in that movie but Tommy boy is quite possibly the best comedy movie. That's ever been made. It is damn near fucking perfect. Every fucking scene of Tommy boy is the funniest scene in a movie like. It's just perfect and there's no disputing this away. I'm having dinner with Kevin Farley next week. I believe that's great. I really great guy. He's a him. mm-hmm is a his Michelle girlfriends. Like good good friends to me. And Lauren and the four of us are going out for dinner. Kim's great I really enjoy hanging out with them and and But yet tomboys my favorite comedy ever. So there's that's just not. There's no no one's funny on the Chris Farley. No one's ever been funnier than Chris Farley. No one will ever be funnier than Chris Farley. He's just the funniest human being on the planet. It's and it's not like a formula that anyone else could ever like imitate. It's just. He's his own entity his zone thing. It's fucking it's funnier than stand up comedy. It's funnier than the funniest guy you know. It's just it's Chris Farley right obviously you agree with me. Time goes Over black sheep a hundred percent at the two movies are almost like Tommy. Boy Is the better. It's almost like twins and they're both hot tomboy for some reason is way hotter. Yeah so like. They're both great movies almost pair. Well together there's a similar flow but Tommy boy is just the bit like black sheep like good but Tommy Boys Amazing. But here's the thing right. It's also like if they had never made Tommy boy you'd probably look at black sheep and go. That's one of the best that's ever been made. But they made Tommy boy and then followed it up with black sheep. And you're like oh good really fucking funny like really great scenes but you'll never. It's tough when that duo made Tommy boy to ever follow that with something else and it was black. She was really funny was really funny writer he also wrote Joe Dirt the first one. which is the first fucking hilarious great movie? Fred Wolf Japanese guys name. I will say I think David Spade is one of the most underrated fucking comedians ever. He's fucking great. He's really great. Stand up to Oh. I haven't watched much of his His new show. Well you forget how prolific his career is because he had sitcom after six. I think at three sitcoms back to back and he was good good at all of it. There was never anything that he wasn't good on and he was Chris. Farley was so funny that a lot of people be like Oh Farley. Kind of like carried married David Spade but David Spade was great and all of those movies. Like he's always really fucking great really really really funny dude Anyway Okay Hunter writes. Jim Jordan. Needs some untuckit S- right okay. This is in reference to there was an article in in Oh here did you post it. Yet was an article in the Washington. Post that he needs a job like he's so him and Ratcliffe or whenever the absolute the two best at this on the conservative side for sure but but I think I I think that ratcliff guys pretty good anyways. They're so good at it. I didn't even notice that. He wasn't wearing jacket and if anything his rolled up sleeve look makes him like more interrogation. I know He. It's like dude. If you could just go your whole life and just never get grilled by Jim Jordan on something you. You've come out ahead Jim Jordan is ever grilling you on something you probably just admit to it right away or just like all right. The prosecutor prior to my guess is he was a lawyer because most of them are. But I don't know that much about him or his Pass I really only know him from these hearings and from his Cable News appearances but he's very very sharp guy very sharp and he's he does a great job he almost always at these. Congressional hearings gets the best best sound bite. The best moment breaks the fucking where he was the one who was like this is the star witnesses after this is the this is the first witness this the best guy's is going to bring us and he's like I might be missing him rack. No I played. I played no. You're it's Jim Jordan and I played the clip last episode. I mean he's that was to me the biggest moment of the whole all hearings where he just breaks it down for you in a way where he goes. Okay okay. So there's these fifty two days where the military is being withheld. You meet with the Ukrainian three times during this period. It's never comes up. It never comes up. There's no linkage of this being withheld and the guy's like well for the first two meetings they didn't even know it was being well they didn't know it's like it just break down. I think my analogy on the last show was as that. It's like if you're accusing someone of kidnapping someone for ransom. And then you find out that they never made the ransom demand and also the the people they were making the ransom demand for didn't even know the person was kidnapped right and you'd be like this kinda throws a wrench in the whole thing's about the witnesses they're really didn't pass. My bullshit tests are really flag. My bullshit radar was one when they were talking about how important it was to get this aid to the Ukraine because they're a war with Russia instantly instantly you kind of channels me. Oh you're on that propaganda side. They're really wants to play up. How Dangerous Russian isn't that people? Were going to die if they didn't get this aid. I just know that that's not true. So the second you start with those talking points. I'm like okay. Somebody Fed this to your on that team. The second thing is when they were being asked harsh questions they kept trying to reframe it where they go. I get your question but let me let me redress why I'm here today and I'm like well then you're not just here to give testimony. You're actually here to try and move Peterman Agenda Forward which tells me you're not here just to give testimony. You're actually playing side. We listened to obviously what this thing was from the beginning I mean the whistle blower himself Went to two shifts staff staff or to shift. It's not clear but right like this. This has been a partisan thing from the beginning and not even partisan I shouldn't even use that term. That's what the corporate press calls at but it's not partisan its establishment verse trump. It's the deep state versus trump. But that's what this has been the whole time I was. I was listening to your episode in You were talking about not. I mean you can hold a magnifying glass to any element of basically politics and you're gonNA find corruption so this is just a ridiculous thing to hold the magnifying glass and say hey this is this is crazy what I would love to see them. Unwind is that trump has done this. I think three times now where he goes to a country and he goes. Hey we worked out a trade deal and then you look at the trade deal and it's like well Raytheon. It gets to sell three hundred millions worth of planes and General Electric. It's like there was no trade deal. You didn't open up trade you win. And you represented private companies. I wanted to and let's see that collusion of between you and the head of Raytheon or Lockheed Martin that their planes are being sold. Why is the president selling planes from lock it like I wanted? I wanted to table angle. Something interesting in foreign policy and private organizations manipulating government. I W- let let's have a congressional hearing on now. I WanNa know how these trade deals are being put together. I would love up to. Here's the thing and this is my biggest problem with what I call an lots of people call but the reason why I use the term trump derangement syndrome is that it's like I would love to look at any like what you just said. That's a great example. Any real substantive issue of government corruption. The problem album is that the anti-trump people rely on this narrative that Donald Trump is so much worse than anything that came before or him at all. The stuff you're talking about is going to indict the whole system and that's something they don't WanNa do because what they're still thinking their mindset right. The establishments mindset which I think is. I think they're absolutely wrong about this but you know what. Let's not underestimate him because they're they have been ruling us for quite a while. So they're these. His people are pretty savvy but their idea clearly is that this donald trump thing is an aberration. And soon as he gets out of there we get back to business as usual. Joie get back to normal. I tend to think the toothpaste is out of the tube. This is something. We're in a new era now but they might be right. I might be wrong about that. But so they just want to get him out of there so they don't want to indict the whole fucking system they're trying to go right back to business as usual after trump. So they've got to rely on this like you know the Brooke Baldwin. Donald Trump has betrayed the sacred. You know office. Everyone else was really great but all of the sudden we've got the Anti Christ in the fucking priesthood. Third or sorry. I just go with Christian references that I don't understand that much all right anyway so I agree with you. I would love to see that that be released. I also listen I I think third definitely might be some smoke and maybe some fire around around this stuff where I look. I I as you guys know. Who's on the show? I'm not one who goes for like the mainstream fucking anti-trump narrative I don't like Donald Donald Trump at all I just I think Donald Trump should be tried for war crimes specifically for what he's doing in Yemen but that being said I inside and with the CIA. Like I don't don't fucking care you've always like the fucking to me the the worst of evils but when Donald Trump is talking about you know like having the military stay at trump resorts and and and when the Saudis are like him have the nicest. Yeah when when the Saudis are are buying hotel rooms and shit like. You're like ooh do that. Does that stinks. I mean I don't know enough about the details I haven't looked into it deep enough to like really have a strong opinion. But you're like yeah dude. That should not be okay again. It's hard to not point out. What aboutism again will you know these this guy but I'm saying I think it stinks but it's also like I said like so Obama you know fucking look at his policies toward the big banks? Who have these record high profits under Obama and and then he gets four hundred thousand dollars for a speech at Wall Street? It's like so everyone has these problems but those specifically to trump they. Are they stink. There's there's a a real problem there okay Okay MIC says. You've talked about the recent changes in your views on abortion and immigration. Not that they've changed your overall philosophy but a shift in your possession over time we can all expect changes changes in our points of view with different life experiences. Are there any other issues You think you might change your mind on. Also get Ben Swann to talk impeachment and Epstein. Yeah I would love to have Ben Swann on Ben Swans fucking great journalist. And I've always been a big fan of his. I would love love. Love love to have him on. I don't I don't know him and I don't know who Tom Woods had him on back in the day. Maybe I'M GONNA talk to Tom. About what contact info for him thrown. Yes that same guy. But he's he's fucking great so well. I mean okay abortion. I changed my mind on that issue. Show like I am pro-life where I used to not be immigration. I don't know that I even it's it's hard to say that I actually changed my mind on the issue because the policy that I would wanna see enacted is pretty much the same policy as before. I mean like as I've said many times it's like you know and the war on drugs and the welfare state privatize everything and we don't have any problems. I don't know what to tell you and then crossing a private property boundaries is trespassing S.. Passing so yeah you can come. You're invited you can't come if you're not kind of the way everything else runs that to me would be the best ideal solution. But but I don't know it's kind of hard to To predict what I might change my mind on in the future. I think that You should you should try all your best to always be open to changing your mind on on everything. You should always and I try to act this way. I don't know if I always succeed did but you you try to act like you can. Have your mind changed if a superior argument comes along and it's a it's a difficult thing for all of us because you know like I said I used to be a left wing guy a kid really because it's it's been a while and and then I was convinced by superior arguments. That's why I'm a libertarian. Now because I was pre presented with superior arguments the issue that comes in and everybody has to guide you you know guard against this. I should say is that now. I've become known and have an audience and I'm known as a libertarian. And for me if I were to change and my mind on being a libertarian more broader issue then that would mean me admitting to everybody that I've been wrong and so you have to realize as we are psychological creatures and we all have these like confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance and all these things that make us want to prove our own point correct rather than just but all you can do is try to guard against that. But I'm I try to always be open to like if a superior argument comes along Then I I would change my mind. I don't know if that's actually true but I try my best to live that way and this is part of the reason why I'm I'm I don't like to play the game of like like calling people names and shutting down dissenting voices In go like well. You're a racist. You're not allowed to say that or you're a socialist and you're not allowed to say that I like to have then Burgess on the show I like to have nick says on the show. I like to have different people and kind of deal with their arguments. Because I feel like you have to treat things that way you have. Okay well this. Someone is making argument. That challenges my world view. And I gotta be able to hear the argument and respond to it and see if I have a superior argument or not And you know none of them have convinced me yet but I try to stay open was besides like I mean I'd imagine you you know you alike have talked about rob before like reading free market stuff. We did that on the five hundred episode. You talked about a lot of the stuff you've read. That changed your mind on stuff but what do you think you think of something recently. Where you've change your mind on your outlook of view or basically since becoming? A free market libertarian. Not recently sandwich related. I can Starting more may or yeah. Yeah Superior Argument I came out as Anti Mayo and then we were talking about What's called my God? I'm retarded right now you see. It's my love sandwiches. Sometimes it makes me stutter. started out of my mouth hot chick and speak anymore anymore. Yeah we were talking. About Ruben. Sandwiches can't eat a reuben sandwich without like Russian dressing. You're not eating a reuben sandwich. Yeah and then. After that. Discussion about Ruben. Sandwiches on my show. Oh I've been on a Reuben Sandwich like real quick. I've been I've been Reuben Sandwich thing like you wouldn't imagine I love a Russian dressing. Yeah that doesn't work on everything but a nice Russian dressing when it when it's when it's appropriate with some Straw me and Sauerkraut on. Oh my God so but I've been enjoying that so much I feel like I've got to revisit Mayo altogether because it kind of weirds me out. It's just white stays in jars it's made of eggs. It's not healthy and it's ever been I've never been a big Mayo. Guy Certain things obviously tuna or something like that obviously put some Mayo. You don't even do Mayo on my team. I like tuna in olive oil. I go with and which I very rarely have but like mustard on tuna. That's weird. Yeah it's a little weird but it's actually very good okay guys. Let's take a quick second. I want to tell you about our sponsor our brand new sponsor to the show which is mud water. Mud Water is the ultimate Coffee alternative packed with organic ingredients. That will add natural energy and focus to your morning routine. The mud. Water team is not mad at coffee. They're just disappointed. They were sold the dream that a huge dose of caffeine in the morning was going to allow you to do more and do it faster but the shitty sleep jittery rise and the crash caught up to them and they decided to make something better with one seventh. The caffeine of coffee mud leans on CA- cow mushrooms herbs and gives you energy and focus without the jitters in crash each ingredient in mode was added for a specific benefit. You just take a scoop and brew it into hot water and have a morning ritual. That has more than just a vessel for or caffeine. Check them out at mud. Water Dot Com that's mud W. T. R. dot com once again. Mud W. T. R. dot com. And can you use the Promo code drink mud all one word. You'll get fifteen percent off your new morning. Ritual that's mud water dot com and the Promo code is drink rink mud for fifteen percent off. All right let's get back into the show RENITA as the snowden interview on Rogan I think that I mentioned this before I thought it was. It was great. It was really cool that he had him on and he brought up some cool things. I did find him to be a bit dry. And kind of man is yeah very technical and kind of went on and it seemed like there are a lot of things he could have just said in shorter spurts but But it was great it was great interview. I don't know so I don't really have much more wild title since I watched the fact that it was over. The phone meant that Rogan couldn't really like interjecting. Make it a little bit more concise. Oh cool and he got a hold of the guy no it was. It was an awesome something to do. And what the deal is not my cat. Does he just work for the Russians now or do they just let him live there because it makes the US look bad. I believe it's the latter but who the fuck knows because I feel like they must four some information out of him no. I think that they're I think they'd be happy for the latter. I think they'd be happy to just be like. Oh Oh no look. We're fucking were putting you up here. Because he embarrassed the system and it makes them look like the more humanitarian ones and rice. Look the more brutal state you know. So that's I I think they're always happy. Maybe to the same way we would be happy to give Russian dissonance free home. Isn't that funny. That that's part of governments self marketings things that they have to prove to you that there are moral and the other ones are bad. That's that's it. As are they going. Well it's right. That goes right to the core. Of How states operate is that they have to play on fear so they have to protect you from something else. Oh the other government that sue the government. Yeah that's why I mean they've they've had in many ways is the The Russians back to the days of the Soviet Union and and America the oligarchs both have had a mutually beneficial relationship like we both gets a scare our population into Abang us and demanding from us. Like that's you know. That's what people look to strongman when they're when they're afraid you'll to to a fucking leader and yeah he might be able to crack all your skulls but he'll really crack those other motherfucker skulls you know So yeah absolutely all right Colin one asks. How would a currency work in an an cap society while Bitcoin is semi? Expect is semi-acceptable now. It is nowhere near ubiquitous enough to replace other current dollar to to replace our current dollar. This and courts are places where I can't fully commit to an cap yet as it seems both are more suited to be functional through voluntary tax via the state Okay okay. So let's start with. How currency would work in in a market people wanted to use? Well that is the actually the correct answer right and to say that Bitcoin is nowhere near ubiquitous enough. Well I mean that that is true but you can't on ignore the fact that there's like legal tender laws and you you know your taxes have to be paid in dollars and all of these different things so it's not as if it's Bitcoin coin isn't present everywhere just because of market decisions. I mean who the fuck knows. I mean. There's there's a long history Murray Rob Baard wrote a lot about this. But there's a long history of money that wasn't related to the state and basically paper money came from banknotes essentially And I think it's quite possible it would work that way in the market. It does seem to me that probably technology would be harnessed in free market currency more than just just storing gold at a bank and then giving you a note for it probably that would be out there that would be one you know currency and you would have competing currencies which might sound and a little bit crazy but honestly we have competing you know competing companies in every other aspect of life. And look if what you want is a strong strong stable currency which even the Federal Reserve will tell you. That's what they want Then what you're GonNa want is is competition in that area and obviously currency no currency is something that benefits everybody to have some medium of exchange. So this is something that I think would be figured out very quickly weekly By the market and I think would obviously be like far far better situation than the government having control of currency which is a uh been pretty disastrous if you ask me and as far as courts being run by the government well look I mean. There's a real problem with having you know it's a lot of times people get caught up on. How would it? How would competing courts work but the key is to understanding the the problem of having a monopoly on the courts? So you say that you think you know you're not completely an cap yet because you think Currency the and courts are more functional through voluntary tax via the state. And now we're kind of in on even footing like where a lot of people's People's issue with with Aniko capitalism is. They'll say well this is never existed. It's never been tried. I WANNA see a track record of it but if you're talking talking about a voluntary tax with the state that doesn't take taxes via the threat of violence. Then we're both on the same ground of something that doesn't exist and hasn't been done you know Anywhere that you could think of so okay. Here's here's where you go. From B believing involuntary taxation nation to being an anarchist capitalist. All right and this is like believing in a voluntary state is almost like the last step before realizing that you are an anarchist capitalist. It was actually think once you're at that point you are already an cap but so if you're going to say the state basically you're like we have a nightwatchman stayed just like does very you know. Runs the the courts and the police or whatever. Would you didn't even mention here but say just the currency and the courts but it's voluntary. You know they just ask you to pay taxes. But they don't make you. There's no threat of violence like you're not going to jail if you don't pay your taxes but they ask for the money and obviously courts and currency is all of our benefits and maybe they could raise the money. It's like okay What do you do if someone wants to opt out? What do you do if somebody else you know someone else opens up a court? Business that says we will L. mediate disputes. You just have to agree beforehand that you'll settle any disputes that you have with this court and they're building up a great reputation doing a better job than your government courts are people allowed to opt doubter. No are you gonNA initiate violence against people simply for wanting to use a different currency or wanting to use different courts. And now you get into how voluntary as it really. Because maybe you're saying the taxes are voluntary. But if you can't if you're not allowed to form your own system then you're GONNA have to force people into yours and if you are allowed owed to join another system. Then you're an anarchist capitalist. You're not it's not a state anymore. It's you're allowed to leave and it's voluntary. Then that's what that's literally. What being inadequate capitalist is so if you're saying you're forced into it it's like all right so then we're right back to the problem you have with states is that they're going to grow and and grow and grow and the reason is because everyone's forced into it so it doesn't matter how good of a job they're doing you have to show up you have basically What's known as the DMV problem? Glum which is that you. What are you going to do? Go somewhere else. Where the only game in town so we don't need to have good customer service? We don't need any of these things and one of the major problems Hans Hermann. Hoppe has written a lot about this but one of the major problems with government. Monopoly on courts is that it's not just that the government is the final arbiter of disputes. Between people right the government is also the final decision maker on disputes between people and the government government right so right away. You've got a pretty big conflict of interest. And would you believe it when the government gets to resolve disputes between people people in government. It has this tendency to side with the government and this is a big reason why governments grow bigger and bigger and bigger. I mean think about this right. We have constitution the constitution of the United States of America. And the way the system is designed is you have the the constitution is not very hard to read. If any of you guys WanNa read it. It's a small all little book you can get through the whole thing. It's really not that complicated. It's you know it's a little bit of old timey language but it's actually pretty easy to follow. It's not like a tough read. It's not like dense like. Oh Oh shit I really got to sit down and learns pretty straightforward and you bill of rights and all this shit and the way the system is designed right is like you have three co equal branches of government. You have the legislative branch they get to write the laws. There's this whole system of how they get the laws through and had the democratic process of how they get a elected Even though the Senate was supposed to be state appointed and then you have the executive branch which enforces the laws and also can veto any of the laws and then you have the Supreme Court which is basically just a shack on the whole thing. 'cause they're just a fucking court that says none sorry. This is unconstitutional. So I don't care if Congress and the executive branch both agreed on this sorry it's not constitutional and yet look at where we are where we are today. Every goddamn last. One of the bill of rights is being violated. Like crazy like crazy. I mean Congress shall right no law to a bridge The freedom of speech. You're how many laws there are things that you can't say and then you have fucking under a window. What's his name? Fuck blanking on his name but the no can't yell fire in a crowded theater. Then you have woodrow. Wilson Olsen is out there arresting people for passing out anti war pamphlets and they go well. I mean there's gotta be some reasonable limits on speech it's like Oh wow. I can't believe this court. I can't believe this government monopoly. Court sided with the government. This is the problem that you get into. This is the problem with monarchism. It's like it's just like saying like what would just going to keep a little bit of this cancer and it's like right but you re this is what cancer does it grows and grows and grows and that's going to be your problem so no I mean the idea of like the more. We're time I've I've spent in this Aniko capitalist mind space the more. I realized that it's like the things that Jesus it's like you know it's funny that they'll be like a like nobody even Bernie Sanders probably isn't saying like the government needs to like you know make computers and you know t T. shirts or sneakers or anything like that like even. He won't be advocating that. But then the most radical monarchists like like Colin here we'll say you know I'm like an cap all the way but I just think the government needs to do like the currency and the courts. I'm like Holy Shit. Those things are way too important to do. God Damn those are the two do things I want the government out of like almost as much as anything. You don't want them running your money and the courts that's giving them the whole game like I'd rather they do the fucking computers and sneakers then fucking do the fucking currency and the courts. That's that's so powerful. was that old. I forget who said it. Some I forget who said it. But maybe it was a rothschild no but he said give me control of nations currency and I care not who writes the laws you know if you were if you were going to either be in charge charge of Congress or the Federal Reserve got a lot more power being in charge of the Federal Reserve you bring the whole country to its knees tomorrow. You can literally move mountains economically Mickley speaking like you you you know Hagan blow up. bubbles tear down bubbles. You know it's the the power that comes from that is just you know ungodly all right. Casey rights how to possibly combat the media bias which holds most people hostage and blind to this country's real problems other than your podcast of course? Well that's I don't know we people ask these questions a lot. It's like I guess I would be doing it if I had some other answer to. It seems like to me the the Internet and on this podcast is one little drop in that ocean but yet it's like calling them out at every turn and trying to to open as many people's eyes as you can. I don't know I mean I agree with you on the problem that The media bias holds the so many people hostage and blind but I guess one of the good things is that more and more people really are not buying that shit. I don't know I I don't believe like history is predetermined or anything like like that. I think it's kind of like what people fight for it. The the hardest and the most effective way are the ones. We're going to win so I don't know maybe it's Donald Trump up. They're calling him the enemy of the people. Maybe that's the way I duNno I. Let's take a quick second and thank are awesome sponsor surfer today's show or longtime sponsor. 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Pain managment men insomnia. Lots of other stuff So once more for a limited time only you can get thirty percents off your entire order at infinite. CBD Dot Com by using using my Promo Code. Dave fifteen and if you click the link in the episode description we've got a holiday giveaway pack with over a thousand dollars in CBD products products for a lucky winner so one more time infinite CBD DOT COM. Promo Code Dave fifteen for thirty percents off your entire order and click below to win a thousand dollar. CBD Bundle all right. Let's get back into the show. All Right Eric writes my wife and I are having our first baby and March. I'm looking for some fresh advice. Ice From a new dad. What you got? Don't drop it lot of times. It comes out all bloody and people like I want all my wait let can clean it off. I that it's gripping that's a rookie. Mistake people make it also umbilical cords. You don't want to keep them like sometimes there you're like hey it's novelty yes I'm only going to be having one kid kid wants. Maybe I'll jump rope with it down the line. Don't be hortatory like that. You don't need the umbilical cord. You let them keep it This is all great advice. But keep in mind rob has has lost all five kids. So he's it's and that's the point. I I still have sandwich money. That's what I'm doing right and none of those were abortions. They were all natural causes. This is so you know all just lost him the old fashioned way. Yeah fucking can't find him and there's a thin line between rocking baby and shaking a baby but you got you really want to practice that with the doctor before you leave the hospital. You want to get that one down very good. You don't WanNa be going. They actually make you watch a video about not shaking your baby and then you have to sign a form that you watch the video that me and Lauren made it like thirty seconds into the video and then we just signed the form. We watched the whole thing. I might be admitting to a felony. No no no we watch the whole thing. Here's here's Joe going around but it's so you're really like are you. Do you really thinking you to tell me not to shake my baby like Yeah No. Here's here's the two and two together. There's a really important one sometimes past fires cutting you're putting that pass by and the kids mouth and he's still crying the moms around. Just put your tidiane that mouth. I know milk is coming out. But we'll get a kid to calm down. They won't won't be crying authentic. And that's not Miller. Station is weird and bad advice. More weird than anything else. Well let me say to Eric. First of all congratulations. Congratulations to you and your wife. It is an amazing amazing journey. That you're about to go on man on and I'll tell you this no matter how much you think you over. Think it or what advice he get. Nothing's GonNa fucking prepare you for it. It's one of those things you gotta just fucking. You gotTa just jump in that pool in the deep end and it'll be great. I'm not gonNA sleep much. Well I that would be probably my number one piece of advice sleep now sleep now. Enjoy that because you're you're done as far as sleep goes after this. I mean some some people have better situations than others but you know what don't even worry about it. You fucking adjust to it. It's like this is what people have been doing for all of human history and they've done it in far more difficult circumstances than me and you are doing it in so just don't even over think it it's GonNa be you know it's really going to be amazing. Here's what else eight pieces of advice number one. Don't bother reading too much about pregnancy. Pregnancy is going to be over before you know it read about that baby stuff now. This is a mistake. I made When when Lauren was pregnant I was got obsessed about reading everything about pregnancy? And like it was really into fucking like reading reading and learning everything what you're supposed to do and all this dumb shit. I got all this information about pregnancy. And I don't fucking need didn't need any of it and then I was like I'll read all about babies and stuff like that once the baby is born but you got a lot less time to read once the baby is born. Start reading all the stuff you WanNa read finding all the information about babies now while she's pregnant 'cause basically basically your wife and her folk. Obgyn they can handle all the pregnancy shit. You don't really need to worry about that. The thing is You know just that you want to. You're going to have a baby. That's like the real permanent thing and if you have any question when you're pregnant you can just call her doctor. You handle that or at our next doctor's appointment you talk to them about what you're thinking like. Oh can she eat the can we have this blah blah all that stuff. They'll handle but with the baby you kinda gotta figure it out yourself. I mean you can't like call your doctor with every little question that you have like I mean the big ones but not everything that's like on you they just let you go from the hospital and then you've got to figure it out on your own I'll say this it's I don't know if this even false like there's there's all these like little pieces of advice that that I could give but it's like stick around you definitely want to sit around looking at it and just go. Hey I'm out of here. That's not cool. That is almost certainly going to have negative effects on your head like when any change diaper you WanNa hold both their legs with one hand and you WANNA get a fresh diaper under right after the dirty diaper out because otherwise that can be a whole mess you know. There's a lot of little technical things but I'll say this it is. It's the most amazing thing you can do at least in my experience just just the greatest most amazing thing and might my daughter's coming up on a year old now and I can't even tell you how much better it gets like. It just gets better and better and better And but it's not just like anything in this world the Yin and Yang Noth- nothing. That great is easy. It's really really really hard. And it's not all glamorous there's some there's some really difficult parts to being a parent being with your wife while she's pregnant but it's all worth it and I would just say to remember that that's a that's probably the thing that comes to mind the most but again. Congratulations to Yun to so you and your wife. That's really awesome. I'm happy for you guys. Okay Congratulations Eric. Kale at Snowden on Rogan. We kind of already did that. Jimmy asks what are your thoughts on Oliver Stone blasted. I like that Guy Listed I'm thinking of Roger Pistone Roger Stone which I didn't ask about Roger Stone yet. I was almost short. Somebody would get. How do we get this? We'll go to that to Oliver Stone Oliver for stone. He Made Wall Street. And we were watching that documentary with Putin right that Guy He made the duck. Oh that's right. Yeah Yeah we watched that together forgot. That was really good He did ah like a DOCU series. I think it might have been on that flex. I can't remember but about like the history of America that was really really good really excellent And he made JFK and made a whole bunch of other movies. I mean he's a great you know he's a bit of a lefty and a bit of like a you know he's he's a little bit soft on on on the commies and stuff like that. But he's like fucking he is a he's woke on the war question for sure and I think he's like a fascinating dude so I'm a fan. I like like what he does He's not dude who's GonNa fall into like you know whatever the like. Today's Hollywood talking points are about why Donald trump so evil you know like held kind of a guy who gets like what's really evil about our state and government and media and all that shit so I think he's great big Fan. I love the movie. JFK was awesome. I didn't see Yeah great and I really really liked his his docu. Series fucked. I can't remember what it's called but this is interview with Putin was really good. It was really interesting. I mean more more interesting and thought doc provoking and enlightening than like anything out of the basic bitch. You know mainstream media all right. Jose writes The riots going going on in Chile and Ecuador where there seems to be a connection to Cuba and Venezuela influence also the coup in Bolivia and the fact that although the CIA was involved it actually seems like the people wanted it. You know I gotta I gotta read up a little bit more about the stuff in Chile and Ecuador. I mean I've read a little bit about what's going on in Chile. I I don't know I have to like read more in formulate my thoughts on it more. The shouldn't Bolivia is straight up a coup. And that's it's I I would. I would be very very skeptical about you know going like oh well. It looks like the people wanted. It's like yeah that's their job is to sell it that way and make it look that way and even if the people did want it you know. Sometimes people want things that are. That's a bad idea. They had a a coup in in Honduras. And that's been a disaster for like the migrant crisis in into America and stuff so you know it's like there's there's almost always always negative unintended consequences to these things and so i. I'd be very very skeptical to to be on board with any of it. Sorry I just don't I I gotTa do more homework on that one to have a better to have a better answer for you. Derrick simply writes Owen. Benjamin I love Owen. I don't know what else to say. I love love him. He's he's a great fucking dude. A friend I miss him. I know he's fucking real. Happy out there on that farm farm with his His kids and his wife and I'm really happy for him but I miss him. I I liked when he he was a close. Earning would pop into the city more often Owen when to me. He's like you know I used to watch so much more of this shit and a lot of that's just having a kid just don't have as much time to fucking watch. You know people on on Youtube. or or whatever or he's got his WHAT UNAUTHORIZED DOT TV I think is his thing now but I just don't you know I don't have as much time to to spend on that stuff now that I got the kid but owns a guy who's always at every time I watch him? He always makes me laugh and makes me think and I appreciate that. It's it's he really you know He. He gets such a reaction out of so many people which I always find to be a little bit strange like even if you think like even if you think someone's wrong about something if you're getting so like wound up over it you got to examine that a little bit and be like what is it about this guy that's like getting you so worked up But I literally owned just I love him as a dude. He's a great guy. We've always been good friends. And every every time I watch this stuff it makes me laugh and makes me think and You know I I I appreciate him as a person You know he might be a you know was the Michael Malice Line about. He Goes A. You're supposed to take one red pill not the whole bottle. He he might be a little bit guilty of Of taking taking the whole bottle But he he may have taken one too many red pills but But you know I I love him and he's a good friend Sue True All right Mike Have you ever seen this anti socialist communist cartoon from the nineteen forties. I think it's worthy of a breakdown on an an episode. Make Mine Freedom. I think I did see this. I think I have seen this I'd have to watch it again to see if I had had enough to say about it to to play it on a podcast but I think if it's the one where the guys selling the The Alexa thing. That's says ISM on it and they're talking about like the American way of life than I have seen it yet. It's pretty cool all right all right Patrick rates. You've met a great girl but she leaned slightly slightly left. Do you fucking shock a try to make something meaningful of it. Well she's a great girl. Then try to make something meaningful meaningful out of it right. I mean first of all you said she's great and you said she leaned slightly left yet. Yeah don't fuck with you. If she's great fucking try to see if you can make something work out of it I think. Look there's to me again this Atlanta's getting sappy with the kids stuff. And now this say I think dude if you can if you can find somebody who's really great for you who you're really great for. That's just about the best thing thing you can do something. I was single for a long time. I I was never like a big relationship guy before I met my wife. I wasn't involved in many serious relationships ships and life is way better when you have someone who has your back and you have their back and you're a part of team. It's just way better so I would never ever tell you to like not pursue someone who you think is great because they lean slightly left and there's different varieties of left so I don't exactly know what that means someone. Someone like a hard core feminist are hardcore social justice warrior. That might be like you got to judge their cases terminal or not. Because if you've got got if you've got terminal feminism that might just be impossible. It's an ideology that if you are that religiously diverse devoted voted to that might be. There might be no way to have a healthy relationship with someone like that but leans slightly left like. Yeah whatever fucking and the other thing is that I do think for the most part speaking in general terms you know broad patterns says true for every case but for the most part art women look for leadership qualities in their man like they look to you to be the fucking leader and and you see this all the time with women who kind of become a lot like their current boyfriend and then have a new boyfriend and become a lot like that boyfriend so be the Fuckin- can leader in in that relationship. And who knows you. Might you might tilt that leaning slightly left right out of her. Bring her back over Bring it back over to the light. The the darkness okay. You've dated girls who leaned to the left. I'm shore rub. Now I have. They don't they don't indeed girls don't read. I haven't dated much but yeah if it's too if it if adventures into that camp where This is I say this is the line for me I have A. I'm an idiot and my sense of humor is that I say obnoxious things and if that's not funny when you were not going to get along and that's a pretty quick way for me to screen. It's not even like a political bias. I can just tell you I've hung out with some women who probably are very liberal. But they kind of get the way that I'm kidding and so we can get along. But like if I make an offensive joke policing the are saying. Hey you can't use that word. We're just not but I'm not GonNa do that was like Since I've been comedy that was always something where I was like. Oh that's a deal breaker. If you not like if you're not I think told that some girl once like years ago two thousand four or something like that. I made some joking. She got offended and I think it was like we had like hooked up a couple times and I made some joking. She got offended and I was like. Oh we just shouldn't talk anymore. And she was like what. What do you mean and I was like? Oh that bothered you. We should not talk again. Because I'm not going to stop and this is going to be a thing I don't want WanNa deal with that thing And then she like got right in line and it was like no. It's okay. It's not a thing but a lot of times it's like if you kind of just lay that down like Oh yeah. I'm not budging on this so you you can either deal with it or not That's got to be the man all right anyway and then you know what was it and look at me. Thirteen years later I found my wife so so they got Just follow that path. All right my love of sandwiches is better than ever. You know. It's been a long running and it just goes deeper and deeper getting take doc. You know all right so B. M. which I don't know if that's your real name Rights Roger Stone. There you go right up. And if she socks work work well with selene. Now that is really starting to question that name which done my research on that one. I feel like that's a question and I should have been able to answer for a longtime sponsor and I would not want to implicate them in any unflattering light So let's just talk Roger Stone. Yeah Mount saw cotton. Yeah well that's true. You may not even need the Vasa lean on and you will be anti microbial. Alright enough Roger Stone that is a Falcon. It's a mind fuck so Roger Stone got convicted. I think of six or seven counts. It was ask trial Two days the jury deliberated came back with the guilty verdict and took it all the way to trial from the little bit. I read doesn't seem like he had that much of a plan. No witnesses didn't take the testimony testimony gambling. I guess that they weren't going to come up with any evidence And he went down swinging which is dumb because now away prosecution works Ed Spa. Yeah so he's A. He got convicted. Basically of lying to Congress and Some other but that's the same bullshit charter. That's the same bullshit that with everyone so the final charge was lying based off of the fact that he's being investigated and fake investigation. It wasn't for any crime that was committed other than and lying wall being investigated. That's what he's going down for. Yeah what did he even lie about. I wasn't even that clear about. I think it was something to do with his. Ah Connection to wikileaks. I don't even know what the lie was. Yeah it was lying with lying to Congress And Obstructing Congressional Congressional Committee proceeding which agree that scientists again obstructing obstructing a congressional committee proceeding. Yeah I mean it's just just you know it's fucking rough. I remember so I interviewed Roger Stone on this show. If you sign up you can. It's out there in the in the archives and I asked him at one point if he he was scared I ask them this way before they indicted him or anything like that but it was obvious that he was one of the people that they were looking at. And I was like dude. Are you like does this scare air. You like you got some real fucking dangerous powerful people and you're in their crosshairs like you're talking about the fucking CIA. See Ya the NSA the fucking FBI. These mother fuckers want you. You know like does that scare. And he gave some Roger Stone Ian answer like he was like other people. Don't a goes. I don't fear other people I put fear into other people. You know something like that and I was like all right dude. If they auction is suits pinstripe double breasts. He's got some he's got some great suits but that is it's really just scary man. They'll go after someone like that. And what is what is the real crime that trump get elected. Yeah exactly and they actually took down a lot of the team that helped get trump elected which you've freedom you know this because so many people's like could go to jail for lying to Congress some real powerful important people like clapper and Brennan fucking all. These people could go to jail for lying to Congress. I mean I remember. Even when Muller was testifying testifying in front of Congress. Do you remember where he had the to. The basically it was in two sessions and he started his second session with correcting the record from his first I session. He goes well. I said this but that was actually inaccurate. It was this this and this. And you're like oh so I guess you lied to Congress right like any of these people could go down but they don't. They chose to take Roger Stone down. And so you know it's like so. Why do they really take that guy down this this is clearly right? And that's it because he convince Donald Trump to run for president and he convinced this guy to run against the entire system. The fuck do you think you're doing so here will punish you and and let anybody else know who's thinking about doing that like this is what you're going to deal with and that is part of you know this this whole trump moment that we're living through as that they're letting you know if if not just to Donald Trump. They're sending a real message to anybody. Who would theoretically help another candidate in the situation we will fuck in? We will come after all of you. Mother fuckers and I'm sure that has like a in effect. Excuse me So you know. There's there's definitely something to be said for that. By the way. Just what is it. How how much does that play into my the point I was making earlier like when do you think the First Amendment would protect your right to lie on the net. You can go to jail for lying. I thought there was freedom of speech that you could say whatever you wanted to say. And the government couldn't prosecute you for it. Well now evidently they can prosecute you if they determine that what you said wasn't right. Yeah I sent by the way it was really uh I sent you an article for my Alan Dershowitz who almost all the time I disagree with but he had an interesting article. He's been good on the Russian stuff. Stuff yeah In an interesting point which was that It's in the constitution. They have a right to a fair trial but if the prosecution like standards that basically. You're penalized for forgoing a trial. It's kind of a violation of that right. And if you look at the system that is the way they do they set it up with extreme penalties because they essentially want you to settle because is going to trial is a risk. which is a system where you're penalized for Dona trial and they try and say no no rewarding you for not making us go through the hassle but that's really the way it's constructed as bullshit? I wonder if they'll I guess shed more light on that or maybe bring it to the Supreme Court because it is it is a backward system. It's a corrupt system. Oh one hundred and also that the make the penalties so harsh the UCLA. Thanks twenty-five years. Listen I'll help you out here. Yeah oh I've argued with conservatives. It was about this. I remember arguing with a Ben Ferguson. About this where you know I was talking about one point like what the forget. What the laws were mainly as drug laws or something like that? Poor the the crow punishment would be like ten years in jail for like a like an ounce of fucking drugs. This is insane and they'd be like yeah but no one gets ten years in jail for it and you're like that's the whole fucking thing that's so insane so all these people two years but the whole reason they basically don't get a fair trial because you're some fucking can twenty five year old. You have an ounce of drugs on you and then it's like you're looking at ten years in jail which is basically your life is ruined. You'll never be the same so then it's like whatever deal the hand you have to take if someone says well no one gets that. So are you agreeing that this is right. Then why do we have a law. That law be. There shouldn't have the punishment for crime. Be What you want someone to get. Who commits that crime? I mean this is your justice right. Yeah right Oh it's just a it's fucking it's it's a real outrage and I gotta say you know I mean I don't know Roger Stone but like I don't know him well but I've met him and it's just a weird thing to meet someone then see them go down like this and who can this the fucking thing like. I'm sure that guy was corrupt or career. Yeah I'm sure it stinks. Here's your look listen man and and this is where I'm still the same bleeding-heart fucking libertarian. That I've always been and I just don't get how anybody anyone who fucking but you know it's like there's I don't no no. I come across people who argue that. You should hit your kids and argue like all this fucking Shit to me that I'm just like how does any decent civilized person argue. This has any decent civilized is person argue that we should throw a human being in a cage like fucking take away their life. Someone who didn't do anything violent. There's no victim involved in this. Like how do you are you the person to live in a cage. An older guy was in his late sixties. Or something like that. He should go fuck in live live in a cage maybe die in a cage. I don't know how long they're gonNA fucking like this is what you do to a fucking animal and we can have a debate over whether it's okay to do that to animals or not. But you're just throw a human being in a cage because they said something they're not supposed to say to to to Congress lying to Congress lying to a bunch of people who got their jobs jobs by lying who lie for a living the fuck it. It's like a fucking funny. Yeah the idea of lying to Congress Roger if you're you're out there. I'm happy to wear your seats in Bangor wife so you know she doesn't have to be lonely and your suits don't have to just hang in a closet. I'll help you out for you buddy. It's really cool. You Bro. The only everyone could step up Robbie the fire Bernstein steps up when someone's in a pinch All right hold onto the all right. Jeff rights turning points new president. Nick Flynn tests. I don't know you probably haven't followed any of this drama. Emma seems like the type of thing you don't get on board with turning point USA There's the Charlie Kirk is like the head of it and he's been going around giving speeches beaches and he's just getting fucking heckle. hackle doesn't even begin to describe it from the videos I've seen it's like fucking Nick Flint as people are like he's like there's a question and answer segment and all the questions come from them like every one of them. They're just fucking barring him with fucking America first chance and stuff and yeah. Now it's been. I don't know it's been pretty entertaining to watch. And Charlie Kirk is like you know it's funny funny because he'll be like you know he's talking about like the culture war and then he's like kind of like Talking about how you know like America so oh great in Israel is so great because they protect. LGBT rights and the whole audience is like fuck LGBT rights. Don't give a fuck about that. Were conservative that we're fighting a cultural war here and like so. They're just just getting fucking relentlessly abused by them. But I don't know the whole thing's been entertaining retaining. I don't know I'm sure it's been It's been good for for Nick. Foreign says is You know visibility and profile but then at the same time I think he's he's making some some powerful enemies so watch out that I might be the next one to be a D platform. So he's got a fucking be careful in navigating through this whole system but it is interesting. I've watched a few of the fucking videos online and stuff and I saw Ben. Shapiro gave a speech basically about Nick Flynn says but didn't say his name through the whole thing and I thought it was just just it was week it it has his arguments were very weak Benji bureaus like he's really great debating. You know fucking nineteen year old leftist to believe they're seventy two genders but whenever it comes to like anything more substantial than that I just I find him to be fairly unimpressive. Okay Andrew Andrew says please talk about what's going on with LP dropping march to raise keynote speaker and him leaving the LP. I'll bet you could get on the phone a short notice to run it down for you So I did. I talked about this a little bit on the last episode I've spoken to both Michael Heiss and marge on the phone Since this whole thing happened and yeah you know I I just. I gave my thoughts on on the last episode. It's I think modules great and everything he's doing is great. I hope you stick with the party. Either way he's not going anywhere and And Fuck these dorks at the El Pais. They gotta go now. We're taking this bitch over so Sorry you guys gotTa go and The the revolution will continue without you or you can just be a small role and keep your mouth shut. Those are your options or Rob Bernstein. We'll fuck your wife and wear your suits. That's for so how how you WANNA play this. All right. The groper war. I don't know what that is Paul. What's your take on the groper war? I don't I'm not familiar with the term. Sorry guys some tight listen. I was explained this to people sometimes. Sometimes I'm I'm thirty six years old. I'm a husband and a father. I don't know new terms and I have no interest in learning them. I'm supposed to be out of the loop. That's the way things are supposed to be. I know we live in this asshole generation so I still dislike dress like a kid and I vape and do all these dumb things. I'm fucking thirty six year old. Father is that some women like being groped and I went online and they were like I miss the fact that when I was on the subway menus to grab it me that made my morning because it made me know that I my ass look good in this little suit you know and so they were putting out online where of all the gropers gone and then all the women who don't like like being groped got very upset because they were like how are they going to be able to distinguish between you who wants to be groped in me that doesn't WanNa be groped. I'M GONNA get groped on my morning commute that's going to ruin my the whole day so I think this is referring to the Knicks. Quintas thing. Yeah so it wasn't right at all. No I mean your war interests me more than there's A. Yeah so I guess I just just look. I think it's I'll say that I do think that there's a lot of these kind of Charlie Kirk Ben Shapiro. Eero types who claim to be fighting this culture war. But it's all kind of illusion. They're not really fighting anything they're basically. It's it's Michael. Malas thing like come into life there. Progressives driving the speed limit their standing for all the gains of the left ten years ago and honestly they're they're even though Charlie Kirk claims to be pretty good on the war issues. I just get the impression. Maybe this is unfair. Get the impression he would support any new war that trump got us into and whereas I think guys is like Nick has and people like that are a little bit more serious about what they believe in and you know and and the the idea that America like needs to fuck in support Israel. Oh that somehow we the because they are just so great. That that's America's business. I mean you can make that argument but that sure is fucking America. I I mean it's not so I I get where they're coming from and I don't know think the whole thing is fairly entertaining. Scott Horton joining the L.. P. Yom fucking I'm psyched about that. Do you own a gun. Why or why not? That's for me to know and the government to find out stuff in New York that that is very very tough gun in the but not my cup of tea that's That's where my friends all right. I'll do one more and and Then then we got to wrap up all right. Nick asks if we got the perfect president could they do enough in the first term to get reelected. What are the fought? What are the first five things he would do? And how long would it take to start working. I answer that one. I wanted to stab sure. I bet if a guy got in there and removed a whole lot of licensing laws that keeps back industries from really progressing and gone in the way of new industries and entrepreneurs Start seeing a rebirth in the middle class and people being able to get goods and resources that they liked that they would go. Hey what other ideas do you have for me and I think one of the best examples is kind of us with podcasting casting you know twenty years ago. The only way you could work in this industry was basically by getting put on television now. Their new technology arises. And you have a lot of people who are making a decent living we're not making Johnny Carson money. But that's the thing like it's almost when industry when industry governed comes in and protect certain individuals with government does a a lot of it removes the ability for people to kind of make a little bit of profit. Here's a really good example now There was a new law with CBD Like Restaurants Frantz or not allowed to serve it or whatever it was. But I can tell you that that law came about because some of the bigger companies were like. Hey I WANNA make sure I'm able to make that profit and that's where most these licensing laws come in. It's to concentrate wealth towards the individuals who were able to get governments to protect their wealth pile and so two whatever you want to know why. There's no middle middle-class it's probably just because like there's just a lot of industries that are protected that you can't you can't just set up what you can't just start selling sandwiches on a corner. You're not allowed to do that. You can't go. Hey Hey I make delicious sandwiches. I'm going to sell you know what I mean. You're not allowed to getting to the core of why rob in my Libertarian Society. There'd be sandwiches in which is as far as the I can see it'd be delicious no with the point if a guy really if a guy came in and said hey listen we're taking away the licensing laws for healthcare and suddenly you could go to your cornering get cheaper healthcare with the price Ego Holy Shit that works better or if someone got rid of the Fed and all of a sudden every year your money was worth more money. It'd be like Holy Shit now you so it's kind of all those things would be great. I mean look the practicality of all of this is that a president doesn't just write laws President doesn't just repeal laws It's very hard to get into and in a real world sense and the truth is I don't really see this like this is not what I think of politics is being. I think you've gotta convince more. And more people to believe in freedom and free markets and individual rights and then hopefully have some like decentralisation and kind of move away from this whole model rebudgeted that euro. Terry well look in theory right if somebody who's really great and I think we're on the same. NPR saying really. Great meaning like libertarian-leaning were to win the presidency. Like you got to think about what that means. So that means what sixty five million in people voted for. The really great libertarian. Guy which probably means the libertarians have taken a lot of congress. A lot of other important seats right. I mean they're like this is is my guess so I don't have a lot of optimism that this is how it would happen like this to me is almost more of the top down like authoritarian Italian model and we're just trying to take that and tweak it for liberty like the idea that one really great guy gets in there and saves all of us and that's not really how things are ever going to work But ever just playing the thought experiment could you get reelected. I don't know look at what they're fucking doing trump you'd be battling some of the most powerful entrenched special interests. You can imagine so. Yeah it'd be really really hard and you might just get killed older thrown in jail or impeached or something like that but theoretically if you were allowed to do it the one thing president really could do is fucking you. You know the commander in chief of the military fucking bring all those fucking you know bring a whole bunch of fucking troops home and a whole bunch of wars theoretically if you had congress working with them them the stuff rob's talking about I mean. Look if you like had. Drastic spending cuts drastic cuts in regulation. Dread yeah I mean I think that the benefits of it would be unbelievable and would be seen all throughout near just kind of touching on examples of it there but you don't I mean they. They've done estimates events of this of the trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars in economic growth that's destroyed by regulation. I think it's hard to have a precise number known but Absolutely I also have a very big believer that if you were to say again this is not something that just the president could do but theoretically if you were to be able look get this passed through Congress or whatever the processes if you were to repeal the war on drugs and really enforce the Second Amendment and and repeal the welfare state I think that transformation you would see around all the high crime high poverty areas in this country would be like you like you wouldn't believe it you just wouldn't believe it. All of a sudden like the gangs would be completely kneecapped. They have nothing to do. You know it's like they. They kind of have to rely on this environment where people are like basically only criminals have the guns. Only criminals are allowed to sell drugs which there's high demand for and fucking the welfare fair state that kind of destroys all these families. You get all of that out of the way I think the difference you could make would be like unbelievable like really drastic sandwiches for everyone and they'd have sandwiches now. Okay you know what we're going to We're going to wrap on that one so thanks. Thanks all of you guys for your question. Sorry I couldn't and get to more That's our show for today. We'll be back on Monday with a brand new episode. I love each and every one of you peace.

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Jesse Tyler Ferguson

ID10T with Chris Hardwick

1:18:54 hr | 9 months ago

Jesse Tyler Ferguson

"Welcome to the eight hundred number ten forty five. Thank you so much. If you came out to helium and Philly or to the funny bone in Columbus the wizard guitar tour has been really fun so far and it seems like people are also excited to see the actual wizard guitar so I will be bringing it to the punchline in San Francisco Feb Twenty seven through twenty nine nine March five through seven at the punchline in Sacramento Then March twenty first at the Brea Improv in California and then March Twenty sixth through twenty eighth at Helium in Portland. And there's a bunch of other dates after that. So if you ID ten dot com slash tour you can get Tickets and Info on that. I hope to see there. Let's talk about the community. Cork Board events that I D Dot Com Riley writes my name is Riley Peterson and released a six song. EP last year about the trials and tribulations of a rather unconventional L. storybook relationship. It's what I like to call sad boy. Coffeehouse music influenced by John Mayer Julian Baker. Frank Turner Got Hutchinson. I haven't done much to get it out there. But it's something I'm proud of love to share with all of you it's available on all streaming platforms under Riley Peterson. That's Peterson with an e. N Peterson genuinely hope you enjoy Riley. That's fantastic. I hope we can generate some some Some more downloads and listened and activity. And I hope you get to or So that is really really really well done on. congratulations on completing that again. If you've completed your thing or someone else thing that you want to promote events at IDC DOT com deceptive Sodas Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Who I had met? We've met in passing several times over the years but I'd never really sat down and had a conversation and he was an absolute delight. I I mean I just. I'm so excited for his upcoming extreme makeover which is premiering February sixteenth eighteenth It is on. HDTV and if you're an extreme home makeover fan than I think you would probably be excited to in he's just such a An empathetic and Compassionate Guy. And that is what this show needs. So I am so glad that he is that. He is taking the helm l.. Moreover etiquette extra makeover so Feb Sixteen. We'll keep an eye on that that's coming up soon. And then also the last season of modern family which is now on. ABC Wednesdays at nine PM at the recording of this podcast. A Don't think they had shuttle the episodes but they might have by now. So isn't that crazy. Eleven seasons of modern family. Congratulations to Jesse in to everyone in the cast of that show Who all seem? Just lovely Ed. The other thing is that Jesse and did I traded POPs. We both had pop toys and we signed him. Trading them As a fun kind of nerdy thing to do so thank you to Jesse you your pop toys now on. I have a big like adept bookshelf in my office. And there's a bunch of classic ones on there. There's a there's a couple of Lucy Ricardo ones on there and now you've joined the Pop Television Hall of fame in my office. So thanks for the Pop Jesse and nail. Let us begin the podcast number. Ten forty five with Jesse Tyler. Ferguson initiating is righty protocol. This room was not this was a cavity in house in the previous owner said. Oh there's a cavity in this concrete wall all the candidates just like there was nothing I posted a whole bunch of instagram's stories on it and so you can see it go from profile you could Zico from a wall to they. Jack hammered through a little hole. And you can see. There's like seven feet of dirt and construction garbage from one one hundred years ago and then and then we dug it out and then turn it into a room and say yeah because it's all concrete so I thought it would be good soundproof room or or like a bunker or a bunker. When the time comes or a a- allowed shower a secret insurer tax rate all of their squirrel? Let's should we turn the podcast German to attack the germ judy. Yeah we could do. We could turn into amateur taxidermy and also into a podcast room. But I I don't know why only recently because you've been scheduled to do the podcast for quite a while and we were on vacation over the holidays and we just had the. HDTV THE APP on. Because I have a little rock we take all the hotels and so we can watch the. HDTV was on and a commercial for extreme makeover. Home home just came on. I was like are you hosting And you are your hosting one of the greatest renovation shows in the history of television. That's insane right now now. How did that when are we going? Yes yes yes. Now that we're talking about the show. We should just launch into it. How did you get involved with this show? It is crazy that I'm the host. It's sort of like the throughout the entire process process we detect episodes. Of course I get I guess about ten weeks and every day I would wake up. I cannot believe that they've trusted me to be the host of this pretty valuable property. Oh my God it's iconic. Yeah it's crazy I'm it was. I don't fully know how I ended up being asked and I remember sitting down with some of the executives because I got basically it was just an email Mela came in and saying we're interested in doing this and I have been approached to do other reality. TV But it never felt right I'm a pretty active. Cook uh-huh Kitchen and food network had come up to me with a few ideas and nothing seemed like something I wanted to spend my time. Doing and you know I'm I'm I'm an activist I love. I love humanitarian work. So when this came to me I was like this is sort of like I appreciate design. Zayn I appreciate renovation. I think it's exciting but also that aspect of getting to meet people who need something to give him. That thing that they need is like what what a gift. Oh you're a dream. Genie just get to come in and like wave. Oh I mean I know. There's a lot of work but in theory I am one. Make someone in the person who gets to sort this show up first and be like we're GonNa do this for you. And then I sort of step aside the professionals actually work and then I get a comment. Let's look at this stuff together. It's it's really the Front Rosie to like the the best of humankind as you probably know having worked in the business for a long time. A lot of jobs come with like you're generally sort of weighing the balance between upside and downside and if the upside outweighs the downside tend to agree to do so. There's literally no downside the downsides of the the heat and like you know when you're just like physically tired new building a home but like I don't get involved with that too much but like little. We working in the hottest part of the summer in the hottest areas of California so that was like the one downside. But you know all of that work is being being put into this family in these families at that really needs something and the stories that we we we found these families that we found to help. Just really remarkable remarkable and I know the show is you know was on television for. I think I think nine years and I know we're sort of picking up where they left off. But it really is as a reboot and it really is. It feels like first season of a show and so I was really. I was really impressed with the families that they found in this first season. It's a really strong the group stories that we get a towel. Yeah and that's really what it is. It's a story. It's a family story That is for lack of a better word. Housed in a renovation innovation show it's the renovation is the reason to to meet these people right but it's really just about who are they eh. Wha what's going on in their lives how can make their lives better and I think in you know in a world of completely toxic new cycles rules. People not only crave but like need this kind of programming just as a beam hope like oh there's good things in the world there. Are People doing things in the world. It feels like it's coming back at the right time and you really hit the nail on the head with died while we were doing this project you know. Every day we came in. There's so much bad happening in the world right now. And there's so much negative news to be able to start our day. Doing so much positivity and working with people who were there to help this the family and and the the the the people are in desperate need of fresh start it was just really moving and poignant and it really makes the the the borders of this whole world feel like they're closer really and I felt so much more connected to mankind and humanity and I mean I spent the last eleven in years of my life on a very successful Sitcom and my life changed when I did modern family and there's a lot that changed within my own bubble able and like I I before modern family started. I was just a theater actor. I loved getting to know people. I love making human connections and with the show. I love meeting my fans. But there's also sometimes a hesitance to like really getting in getting to know someone because I'm always questioning. What do they want from me? Sure and there is a bit of like there's a bit of work sometimes people have to do to get in inside with me like you know I mean i. I love meeting people but like I'm I maybe we'll hold that hold them a bit at arm's length and this show also gave me the opportunity to let my guard down and to really let people come in and touch me which I really appreciate. That's good and and and again there's only I mean it only takes a couple of sour friendships too. It's like if someone shits in the pool you don't go. Well they should into the pool over there. You know the whole like everyone and so it. Of course you're going to be protective because there are you know I- handful handful of assholes ruined everything for everyone all the time. This is why we have locks on our doors we have two factor authentication. This is why people who are in your position might need to keep people. At arm's it's a little bit because there are a few not everyone but but if and only if it only happens once or twice that's enough to like put some shields up to make sure that people aren't Atalanta take advantage advantage of you. Yeah and then I was given this job where like literally. My job is to let people in Yup and to get to know people stories into really ask questions into like. Let them show their emotions to me in ways that I haven't really done with strangers in a very long time and there's something really powerful about that and it makes me want to you now meet more people like that also. Just be more open to you. Know my fellow mankind. You know. I guess it's really closed. They opened up a lot of like windows in my own soul. I think yeah and I and correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like that. Those types of connection also fuel your passion for activism visit would imagine as well because you know the the the activist trail can be a very rocky one because you're are fighting so hard to make sure that everyone has rights to make sure that everyone feels protected to make sure that everyone feels equal and I'm sure there are some days where you're like God damn damn it it. Just come on and so is would it be a true same as this kind of thing really helps you. Okay I feel refreshed. I feel renewed. I feel a faith in humanity. Well and I think anyone who does humanitarian work and activism I. It's a long process and like there. Are you take steps. Forty take five steps back and that's just part of what it is. The great thing about extreme makeover home addition is like I'm working with isn't amazing infrastructure and they're going to build a home in five days they're going to reveal that homes homes that family and five days and it's just going to happen so you know at the end of that five days that we have something to show for it and like it just feels like such forward momentum the entire our time you we are doing good things for people and it's happening quickly and it just. It's very gratifying. I mean you're on a train of goodwill that's just like chugging through these ten episodes and like it's it's really it's really very special I please forgive me for relating this to experience of mine but I just want to connected on that host the show on NBC called the wall and the wall is basically. I just thought it was going to be like. Oh It'd be like a fun flash game show. Yeah and then I realized for me that show is almost like a podcast. Like I'm getting to know people who are really good people who've sacrificed Alon who you like deserves. Some wins in their lives because they've spent much of their life sacrificing other people and people say what's it like Joe said show. I feel like I'm trying to learn from these people and just absorb their goodness and be near it and be an odd because it does every episode just like reenergize is my my faith in humanity like Oh there are good people in the world there are good and it. It just feels good to be near that now obsolete one percent I mean it's and I've watched the show and you're absolutely right. You're show does let's do that and it's I think it's what I'm looking to do with. Extreme makeover is close those gaps between people. Aw I feel like there's such separation. A lot of it has to do with. Financial situations are just proximity. And you know the the cards that we were dealt and but at the end end of the day we're all part of the human race and we all have trials and tribulations and we all have you know hurdles to overcome certain heart are easier than others if you can help someone with those hurdles when you have a little bit of downtime under your own I think that's a really good thing I mean. It's I think it's it's taught me that being a good person as free and it costs nothing to to to to be good us nothing to give back in with like a a friendly voice or an ear to hear someone's problems. I mean that that's all free free. Granted building the homes themselves are not free and I like to thank all the people who like these homes like the builders who gave their time. But you know the act of being good is is free and it's such an easy thing to give. Yeah and also the importance of being in front of people on a human level. Because when you especially when you're online it's it is there's a layer of human separation because you're essentially just interfacing taxed right and it's easy to forget that they're humans on the other side now text on the other side of their machine obsolete so the idea that I feel like we are we have evolve to need to connect with other people in real life and look in their eyes and shake their hands and see them and understand them more than just via text. And so when we're kind kinda dealing with big ticket issues online it can feel very this or that as opposed to human and being able to sit down with people. We'll just talk and experience and understand that I feel like it's just so important so it's so good to have a job that kind of puts you in that position where it's like. That's as part of your job to go connect with people and now it's truly a blessing I mean. I can't believe I get to do it and to go back to your original question was how did I get this job. I fully don't now type Pennington. Who hosted the show on? Its first run is a fantastic carpenter. He's terribly charismatic person. He was the heartbeat of that show L.. And so you know I was thinking. How are people going to move on from him and the designers that original show and it? It's it's hard but I think you the show is now living on. HDTV which. I think it's the perfect place perfect of And it is told to the lens of. HDTV does and I think with that they really wanted a fresh take on. Who's going to be the face of the show and I think over the course of my eleven years in the public eye I have proven myself to. CBS Somewhat Compassionate person who can also bring humor to sometimes tricky situation. So I think that's that's what I meant to do. I got my hands dirty in the first season of the show. And I've I I am welding things in picking up an elegant and helping you know erect walls and it's it's very exciting. I mean it's a world that I'm not familiar with which I think is also sort of the fish out of water aspect and I think it's also interesting and the so. I think that's sort of why I was given this job and I. I just trusted that the people who made that decision were smarter than I was and knew that I'd be the right person for itsel. Did I read correctly that you did you go to Catholic school and you did so okay. So I went to West Catholic high school. I went to actually two different wants because my family moved from Denver to Los Angeles but did When your family which is rarefied television air it shows? Just don't I mean I feel like modern family. A couple of shows like Big Bang and modern family. I feel like just slid into under the wire is just just like Jones grabbing his hat as the wall drought network talented for Network Television sitcoms. That kind of that kind of Mega Sitcom hit be. This is where I'm going with this. Did you ever feel and maybe you didn't. But did you ever feel any of that. Sort of Weird Catholic guilt like this is too much success how I am my. Is it. Okay for me to be on this show. I was never very good Catholic. Okay good now I mean listen. I worked very hard before modern on her family and I paid my dues doing theater and I'm babysitting on on the sites like make ends meet and I feel like I earned it edited. Yeah I mean I feel very blessed. I certainly acknowledge. I don't feel like I deserved it by any means. I don't like you mean entitled. Yeah exactly I I yes of course but I. I don't feel Catholic guilt around it because I do think something that me and my husband Justin have done is taken. Can that platform that we have now and tried to give back. Oh good we can and I think you know this parlaying into extreme makeovers perfect example of like taking that that a platform and being able to do something good with it. Yeah so yeah I know I like. I said I was a terrible Catholics. Yeah I it wasn't great Catholic. Either but I also feel like there was some things that were instilled a molecular level. Like you know things are going well. You should feel bad about that. Never caught in the God. I'm so lucky I know so good. I also read that you grew up in New Mexico and so whereas New Mexico and same sex marriage now because it seemed like the rules were not defined and so what does that mean can same sex couples get married. Then yes we have marriage equality in all fifty states now which is very very exciting and That started with the overturn appropriate in California and then stored there from their steamrolled. I mean I think that the Lgbtq community in terms of equality is always being challenged. I think there's always danger of things being taken away again There are certainly certainly places in the United States where you can be married to same. Sex couples married on a Friday and by Monday couple could lose their jobs for being Mary to the person that they live four. That's the case in New Mexico. Actually New Mexico's sort of has a bit of a blue wave situation going right now and I. It's since the time I left I left there in one thousand nine hundred ninety four. It's become much more progressive. I go back to visit all the time and I feel very comfortable there I've met with you know a lot of the Algebra. Tq Community in Albuquerque and Have worked we worked with marriage. Equality my husband there through our foundation type not No my Catholic schools still. I don't think they have a gay straight alliance which I'm kind of bummed out about but you know I think small steps I m My High School Latin teacher I loved and we reconnected. Not that long ago and he came he like jumped he went to to a different church. Can't remember if it was. I can't remember which other denominations was he was like. I came out I went to another church. I'm married to a man that I love and I was so so excited for him because I feel like how many people may not have embraced that site and been able to feel comfortable like being who they are and he did he found a way to make it work and I was so happy for him. Now there has been a lot I mean. I think you know win. When there's constant attack of a minority group? You always look at the negative. But I mean if we really look back at these past twenty years there's been so much Ford momentum as well so good I am not a little bit more in Albuquerque. I mean how a cookie is is not a hotbed of acting. Like how do you. How do you go from Albuquerque to like? I'm going to break out and I'm going to go. I mean I was a rare are rare bird. I mean Neil Patrick Harris from Albuquerque. John Cameron Mitchell. who was the creator of hedwig angry inches from Albuquerque? There's a few people Freddie Prinze Junior. I believe there's a few of us who broke out of Albuquerque. It's really young like they. Neal was like little kid actor. Absolutely Neil. Came back to Albuquerque after doing like Clara's heart and Doogie Howser Sir and we would audition for the community theater together. And who do you think. They chose to play John. Darling and Peter Pan. It wasn't Jesse Ferguson. Now the the other named I lost a lot of community theatre roles Patrick Harris. We're actually friends now. Which is I've lost a lot of Disney memorabilia to Neil Patrick Metric Herald? Gosh of course. You have a fanatic. He's he's amazing he and David when he lived in. La they did these astonishingly family amazing. How birthday parties and because Neal's a circus fan in a magic fan and a muppet fan and so oh you know their houses just astride all these amazing things and their kids are so lucky to have offering getting in And they're such great parents the best I definitely got to them as a their role models of mine and good friends as well and with that. We're going to take a tiny break. Just a short pause awesome. Thank our sponsor for this episode of the PODCAST squarespace. If you go to squarespace dot com slash ID ten. T can get a free trial when you're ready to launch and use the offer code. Id You tend to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain. Or whatever it is that you want to build any kind of digital thing whether it's to showcase your worker blog blog or you want to sell anything or a product or service Promote A business announce some type of an event or a special project. 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I D ten T to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain squarespace for sponsoring this episode of the podcast which now we glide seamlessly back into but breaking Albuquerque. was I I never had any doubt in my mind that I wanted to go to New York and beyond Broadway I had never been to New York or seen Broadway and when I was in high school I had the opportunity unity to spend a month in France an exchange program. We'd hosted a French student to our house the summer before and there was this coming up. Seven was my turn to go to France and spend spend a month in France and I had. I could either do that or I could spend five days in New York with the local community theatre trip which is basically basically blue hairs blue hair women and and I decided to tag along with these old ladies and go see you know. Eight shows does in five days in New York City instead of going to France for a month. Oh Wow he's was the same price. My parents were like you have to choose one or the other as like I have to have to go to New York I have to see. I have to see what Broadway's has and the minute I landed in New York. I just thought immediately like I was at home in a weird way. That like you would not expect for someone who lived in Albuquerque New Mexico to feel at home on the streets of New York City. I mean it's so different but I think I was just meant to be there and so there was never a question in my mind came back from a trip and I said I'm going to. I'm going to to New York worked for for school at. I don't care how I get there but I have to figure out a way to study there and I dish in for some Some some different schools goals in a lot of places I couldn't afford to go to ended up going to the American musical and Dramatic Academy where the give you a certificate of completion after two years so I was. I didn't take college wjr right. I didn't take college but I have a certificate of completion. Yeah that's a great show for two so I just I never I never second. I can guess the fact that I would be in New York. Yeah that's really fortunate thing too because I remember the first time I actually hung out with other are comedians. Like people who were actually. When I was in college? There was a club of people who wanted to be comedians. And as soon as I got around I was like. Oh I'm not weird. Yeah this is just a thing. This is my tribe of people and I just needed to find that and so I always feel fortunately the Internet that is the one one positive thing about the Internet is help. PEOPLE CONNECT OPS and so but today we had to take trains planes and automobiles to find that analog it was analogue cable but it but that idea of being able to be fortunate enough to to sort of land and feel like all I'm connected to the space and it always I always feel bad for people who maybe have that urine of desire. They feel out of place or displaced with somebody and they can't quite with their finger on it and maybe they just don't have the opportunity to land in their tribe. Somehow it's it's unfortunate. I have a lot the kids who contact man social media. You know most of them from the humidity saying you. I feel very isolated where I'm like. How did you find your people and I have the good fortune of being able to go to school in New York and find my people and You know I just I just encourage people to to end. The Internet is such a great tool. I encourage people to to remember that the world is the borders that world are bigger than their hometown. And there there are people out there who are waiting with open arms. Yeah I have a friend who has a nineteen year old sister and she was out visiting for the holidays and she's the kind of quiet but she's but but I can tell she's funny money like I can just like comedians sense other comedians. And I said to my friend like you should tell her to take an improper like just see if that resonates with her. Yeah I didn't feel like it was my I don't want to be like. Oh you can get the fuck Outta my face but I just I just sort of felt like oh if I feel like if you just get her near some common people people because she was saying to her older sister who's closer to my age like I don't know I just feel weird. I don't feel like connect with other people in College. Comedian getting and so like inasmuch as we as adults can kind of tell younger people like you're not you're not weird gap you feel out of place because you're in a weird circumstance. Yeah but you just need to find your people and if you do that you're gonna feel so rudy most creative people have that history. Now I find all the great writers I know Comedians and actors or as I never I was always the outsider. Always the one who like people thought was weird. Yes yeah you know. When you're young you are trying so hard to fit in with everyone around you and be invisible with Mike not stand out? You don't want to be picked on and then like all those things that make you weird in Corky are the things that we want as adults we of course things that make a specialist. We can excel in our careers and like we WANNA be desirable to certain people. And what makes you desirable is uniqueness. It's that weird balance. Like trying. Not to kill those those seeds of of brilliance when when people early in their early years because they're trying to blend and definitely remember trying to blend but also knowing that there was something special that I had had to offer those nuggets of quote weirdness. Sir What give you your voice and those are the things that are sort of antithetical tra traditional especially high school social circles where all those kids are just just trying to fit in and trying to be cool and feel like the creatives. What sort of fuels? That is the sort of the the blessing and the curse of introspection. which is I believe a gift but also can really get in your way? If you're trying to navigate the world sometimes and so trying to find that balance between like you know like like keeping the voice from being to being destructive but also using it to sort of realize as you said that. It's like that's your uniqueness. You know I just don't know how to like how do do you. How do you tell kids that? Feel weird that's okay. That's okay like people telling me that when it just doesn't connect isn't connect in the moment I was Being bullied and I was I didn't want to go to school because I was kind of nervous about having interactions with people and like that. Trump's embracing your weirdness S. at that time so it's a tricky balance. I mean sometimes I look back on my miracle. Any of US got out of the hometowns that we were in totally but I also am not the by any stretch of the imagination. It's good to be bullied or it's good to feel like an outsider. But the fact that you took those experiences and the way that you express express that is like why am I gonNa do whatever I can to make sure that everyone feels right. Okay right and so I'm GONNA I'm GonNa be an activist. I'm GonNa make people feel Oh seen and heard and you know so. At least you were able to do something positive with that. which has I'm sure? Dramatically affected a Thousands if not hundreds of thousands or millions of people with the work that you do so at least you're able to at least you're able to do something good with it. You know I I mean I feel I feel tremendous amount of sadness and empathy for people who don't know how to or just don't for whatever reason have the set of circumstances of the skill sets into being able able to to do something with that you know so what. What advice do you have for people who feel kinda trapped in that zone? Yeah I mean it's I feel like the first thing to do is is fine at tribe of people that you feel you can connect with and sometimes. That's a sibling. Sometimes that's you know the other weird kids at school sometimes. It's you know it's going online. And finding that group of people that sort of thing and we all have passions and like sometimes. We're afraid to talk about what our passions are because we think that they're not not worthy But I think that anything. That's like something that you're excited about. It's something that's that's worth giving back to the world and it's it's it's a weird balance of like navigating childhood also you know starting to toward the future. What impact do you WanNa make the world make? I know I always think about role models. I think role models are great places star who inspires you. Who Do who do get excited by and like what do they do that inspires you? Why do they inspire you like? How could you follow that person's path and trimark in the world and the same same? Same Way I this is sort of weird leap to make. But it's one of the reasons why I love rocket man so much because here you have this guy were you looking at me go my God. He's so how could he not be the happiest person in the world he's achieve is like he's wreath rocket man you know he's fucking rocket man you know. Just that fact of twenty five five percent in the seventies it was something like twenty five percent of income in the music industry was. I think that's right. What's funneling Elton? John or early he was responsible for twenty five and and I couldn't pull himself out of his bedroom because he was so he was so eaten alive by personal demons. And so just kind of knowing that that that it's no path without challenge right. But you know it's still achievable instill. Oh conquerable I think is really to me it just it should how people feel and also to not be afraid to like to know that if you try something it doesn't have to be your permanent thing forever. If you if you find a group you can try it for a while and if it doesn't suit you then you move on to a different when it doesn't have to be like this is my permanent the thing forever right and like you just said I think it's important that nothing comes easy. I think you know when things are hard and when things don't seem to be coming as quickly as they should that's not a sign that it's not something you should be doing. I mean I think about like my acting career if I if I listen to those sets of rules I would. I would not be acting because it took me a while before I got a big break. have you seen I've been I've talked about it a bit on the podcast because I was blown away by but Michelle Monaghan told me about. This documentary called the biggest little farm arm. I haven't seen that. Now it's mind blowing it basically would. This isn't ruining too much but it's about a couple who live in Santa Monica and they just decide like doc. Let's see if we can start a sustainable farm. They have no farming experience whatsoever. And it's just like seven year journey that the guy just by coincidence happens to be like a nature documentary. So it's shot stunningly an inch and they basically just you watch the seven journeyman building this farm that ultimately creates creates this ecosystem and they build it. There's nothing on the property. It's fucking dirt. It's like unusable dirt and they build this from nothing and it's so wonderful to see their process like you. You said you know three steps forward five steps back and it's how they sort of almost kind of stoically embrace all of their challenges like every time something something good happens it's followed by God and how they kind of take these situations and figure out how to fold them in and and use them like us negative give situations to their benefit. It's even if you don't give a shit about farming. It is such a wonderful life movie because it's incredibly affirming. I have you. We know what types of challenges do you feel like you've seen over the years that you've gone. You know what this sucks but rather than try to punch through it. I'M GONNA try to use it for for good or try to use it to my benefit. Oh Gosh I mean I you know. I've I've been involved often projects that I I don't believe in that I don't like doing like I don't enjoy being an actor when I'm doing them like I have done them for money and I have done them because I'm trying to stay relevant and trying to make myself feel like an an actor and at the same time I'm crushing. My soul need not want to wake up and do what I love doing and you know they made me question my ability that made me question my purpose in like whether or not I should be doing what I'm doing and and I think that coming up against those struggles again. I I feel like if they made me a stronger are actor and a stronger person. Long run because it. It challenged me to stay in it and just to to sort of see it through those uncomfortable times uh-huh and remind myself that my instincts are good and the reason I'm doing this is because I'm I am good at it and I think investing in yourself is the most important thing you can do. And it forced me to invest in myself in ways that I have never had to invest myself. Because nothing's worse than putting something out in the world that you're not fully proud of This thing thing is great I love God I'm dying inside I've emotional diarrhea but it is truly a reminder that you have to invest in yourself when you have to believe in yourself you have to be your own you have to be your biggest fan. Well that's such a great point though because it I mean obviously. I don't think anyone should walk. Walk out of their house and go. Hey world punched me in the balls. I'm not saying you should seek out contentious situations you know but it's almost like because you embrace the struggle because you embrace that situation as like okay. That's situation afforded me the opportunity to see what I don't like and to strengthen my Joan resolve about who I am and what I do you know if you hadn't had because I just think people think everything to be successful means you should just be happy all the time you know like they'll judge you got no problem and that's not at all. What life is you do unfortunately or fortunately I think kinda fortunately have to embrace the struggles because those those those are where the growth parts happen you know and you can hopefully share your experiences other people and let them make different mistakes instead of the same ones that you might like you know being in the entertainment business specifically speak on that just because we both are like you know it's still job just like any other job is I mean you know? Doctors have bad days nurses how bad days teachers have bad days and so two artists. I mean is it's not all you know joy joy and and celebrity and and gifting suites any awards. We also have shitty days and It is it's a job like any other job and it just happens to be one that is sometimes widely available on television streaming go my God and streaming to. I've been I keep keep having this conversation with with with different people in the business because we're at such we're literally the most pivotal point in entertainment history because of how things are shifting and the next one to three years are going to be really interesting to ask who fucking knows I know like what streaming services are GonNa win out what television is GonNa look like remember early on a modern family. A friend of mine very good friend of mine lied Alaria. She's like I just started the show for net flicks and I was like oh in my head of micro excited for her. Oh my God. Is that what this is come to. She's doing things the place the DVD's that you put in the mail right. Oh I'm so excited for the wonderful thing. What's it called? It's called orange. There's a new black all. That sounds great. Yeah I know where I can find it. Good luck with it. And now it's like you know. One of the biggest shows cultural touchstone and also so net flicks where everyone dreams. It's you know that they're not winning. Oscars in the landscape of television specifically has changed so much in the past eleven years and I guess the castle modern families I guess maybe lucky to be ejected out into it. I mean we sort of I sort of feel like we're coming from a different era like we're going to be like one of those time travel movies like back to the future like what what the Hell is this world that we've been dejected. And so every week people had to watch the same the same same time. Don't fucking do that. Well also like a sitcoms because I just think about you know I think about like Seinfeld. Felt like they never. Obviously that was a huge show when it was like that was the fucking lottery of all lotteries. Obviously it was a great show but in the nineties it it was huge huge on home video and now they just made like. I don't know it was like a half a billion dollars because people like watching it on streaming on Netflix would earn and so it I think the Sitcom and again I think this also goes to the sort of toxic landscape of the world people like to checkout and just Binge Watch sitcoms because they're easy to get into you drop into any escapism now. There's an established factor. Durham Agai. You know like I still watch the same season to season nine simpsons episodes. I watched them hundreds of them. I continue to and modern family is one of those shows that I feel like for you know decades to come people will always go back and watch. That show used to be syndication. I'm sure it's syndicated is yes. Yeah but also streaming as well so it feels like to me. Things are GONNA be. Things are going to be. Okay just Ferguson Front for for quite a while because that that is that I just can't imagine like pitching sit come now starting now. I don't know what that looks like anymore. You know what you guys are done now. We we have four more episodes to shoot shock. And then we're d