20 Episode results for "Basel"
"Hello and welcome to the bulletin. Cbs monaco twenty four each week the sharpest minds and fresh thinkers in finance. Take you beyond the numbers in height right to the heart of the big issues of the day. Today we're off to the fair basel to be more specific which is making a much anticipated. Return this week as well as gauging. What the appetites themes in conversations might be on the floor of the fair itself on the program. We're also going to take timely. Dip into ubs basel's jointly published mid year review resilience in the dealer sector authored by the renowned cultural economist. And friend of this program don't declare mckendry in the lead up to basel's returned the survey presents and analysis of the global dealer sector in first half of the year amidst he continued challenges of the pandemic. The analysis is based on responses from over seven hundred dealers operating in art and antiques markets in more than fifty regions or countries. It also integrates fresh insights from a survey of five hundred high net worth collectors across five key markets before we hear from ubs global wealth management's chief economist on themes like the role of sustainability collected engagement market resilience and attitudes around the digital realm. Let's start with a quick thought on what art basel itself might have in store for. Attendees this week and maybe a reflection or to also on just what we've been missing over the last eighteen months or so during various lockdowns and limits on fares and travel joining nato ponder. Those questions is robert bound monocle senior editor and a man who seen quite a lot of fairs in his time robot bound. Can i describe you as a veteran tender in a polite way. Just did yeah. You're saying of being around. What can we expect art. Basel returns kind of the end of the week. And it's very exciting for a lot of market watchers and so forth. But i guess maybe give sense given. You've attended art basel often and lots of other fairs. What have we been missing over the last kind of eighteen months. So that physical moment on we've be missing. Getting eyeballs engage with the paint with sculpture with wonderful works of art. Those physical meetings with gareth with friends with dealers with curator so much businesses done that is not art market business. Not the sort of top line of commercial galleries. Of course a little of that will be done next week. I'm sure basel looking forward to a profitable fair. But i think most of all all of us are kind of wishing for a fair. That's sort of profit on a bit more of a sort of pasta sense right. We want to meet the people. We've missed and this is the real the first big deal fair. That's gonna come back physically there. Hong kong iteration kind of came back in the in the spring Which was good but it had these kind of famous ghost booths where people kind of flu in there that works but not their staff as a bit of a strange one. This is the first one. It'll be back as it kind of real deal. I think you know the the market and curator's and all sorts of different sort of spokes of the wheel just super excited. I'm rob how do you think then fares go about the job. Which i suppose is kind of important of reclaiming that primacy if you like we know about the shift to digital. It's been expedient it makes sense we understand it but how defers go about. Doing that is about the works. They show ken. They rely on people's joyous returns. All of those human connections as being in itself enough strategically. What does that look like. Do you think yeah. It's a really interesting question. And i think it's one of these things that you know. Once you've opened the boxes difficult everything stuff away. Your toys back in online sales will make up a lot of sales. They'll make up. A lot of absentee bids were not about auctions but the asian american buyers collectors will be thinner on the ground in switzerland this year. So maybe those online sales would be sort of prearranged that'd be viewing rooms for vip and that sort of thing thoughts but the physical sort of stamps's authority on the digital by virtue of the fact that you can reach out and touch it. I mean i think that that's everyone has missed so much. And i think painting is in the primacy again in an op turned into sort of upside down world. Everyone turns to paintings the thing to invest in the kind of the half the warm hof in the well together around right and people want to see paint. That's not like a photographic prints or something that you can kind of look online and probably fall in love with you need to see this stuff up close and personal. I think that's how the physical stamps authority on it. And as i say again by the all these spokes in the wheel but by by the physical meeting of people missing each other i think is a massive sort of underplayed deal that amount of amazing online viewing rooms and zoom links can ever ever put out a fashion to that point in the galleries and i guess in particular artists who are working and are looking to show their work and they want it to be in front of people's as you say is it simply the case that they they continue to care more about us than digital or do you think in some ways. The lost eighteen months have challenged some of the preconceptions. Even from if you like traditionalist. And i don't mean that pejoratively. Yeah i think well. I think i mean think all this is interesting question autism more into art never ever been before because they're a huge name. A lot of your mark is disappeared. The middle ground has fallen out of the market. Because it's not so easy to see that stuff online. The bigger artists boosted up the larger galleries have the better online viewing rooms and the big production values and all the rest of it so think artists having been occasionally you know you don't see too many office offers but you see doing the talks and you see them hanging around at the policies and things like that but i think you see more. I think people realized how much they've missed them. I went to london a couple of weeks ago and was really really busy and it was really nice to see as kind of test you might say for something as big as art. Basel was really nice to see. It was nice. See lots of photographers there. Lots of people really engaged and using it as a curatorial exercise and as a social gathering as much as marketplace so all these ingredients go into that. That's her happy suit. I think experience in basel robbo bound. Thank you very much. well next. Let's take the temperature of the art market in the week that art basel returns and also reflect on the bigger economic picture. Ubs an art basel last week jointly published that media review entitled resilience in the dealer sector here to talk to us about some of the findings to put them in a broad economic. Context is our good friend and regular contributor paul donovan polls chief economist and ubs global wealth management pull. It's great tiffany as ever. Thanks for joining us on the program. Let me ask you a little bit about the peace. Which once again klay mcandrew has helped. Ubs art basel to produce here. What are some of the key the key takeaways as we take a kind of a bird's eye look at the state of the global art market. I guess it is informed by lots of the big global economic considerations which are informing just about everything after the turbulent eighteen months. We've had exactly as to quite important conclusions that come out of the report which really fit with the global trends that we're seeing at the moment so the first of these is there has been a significant increase in activity. You've seen a rise. in sales. Particularly millennials millennials have been actually quite aggressive in purchasing art over the course of the last six months or so. And that's part of what we've been saying around the world at least amongst developed economy consumers where overall consumption has picked up because people weren't spending so much last year. They were accumulating savings. And they're now indulging themselves as it were by going out and using those savings in the marketplace and by either purchasing in many cases in the conventional economy durable goods. We decorating their homes. And then also going out and having fun. And i think the thing here is that as the art reporters is indicating with seeing those trends replication arcade. Which is fairly logical because art is is assessing but also purchasing experiencing is a fun process and and so very much marriage with trends. We're seeing globally in consumption. And then the second thing is i suppose the resilience of the shift to online consumption in terms of of art so prior to the pandemic maybe ten percent of sales were being done in a digital formats donald line essentially and now. It's well over. A third of sales are still taking place online. It's it's almost forty percent. In fact now so i think that too is important that there has been some kind of structural shift within the market and even though the necessity of purchasing online has faded as as restrictions in the economy of eased having shifted to purchasing art in a in a digital way. People are not necessarily turning back and again. That's something we're seeing in other areas of consumption as well where the rise of digital spending has become so important. We are an pull. This is one thing. I really wanted to talk to you about specifically which was how some of these themes in the report fit into. I guess what we would call the conventional economics off spending patterns consumption as you've described. It's interesting reading some of the remarks if your colleague. The chair of the board crystal nevada is talking about the fact that yes that digital acceleration continuing and the fact that that brings with it. These evolutions and challenges to traditional market structures along with new opportunities and again does art mirror. I guess the rest of the economy in that sense in that there are very obvious challenges but also very clear opportunities whether they're two protagonists to already active in the market auto people looking for new opportunities. I think it does up to a point so when we are talking about art in the sense of of the art market report. We have to recognize the galleries in the dealers are not conventional retailers. They it's not like going to a supermarket or a department store that they are providing a service which is the experience the expertise. I mean employees in the arts sector are very highly educated. Overwhelmingly have degrees in very large number have higher degrees doctorates master's degrees which is necessarily because they're providing that expertise as well so this is an area where there are similarities to other areas of retail. But because this is providing a service there is something slightly different about the art market and that personal experience and the interaction with human beings who have expertise in their subject. Matter is very very significant. But i think that the art market was generally quite slow to embrace digital selling the online sales that we've seen in other sectors and the pandemic essentially has forced hot issue. Now what i think is interesting here is that i think by moving to have at least some online sales potentially the art market is opening itself up to new buyers who might have felt quite intimidated about walking into a gallery for the first time you. If art is something that you'll just starting to learn about i and it can be very intimidating world. I mean i. I always found art galleries and dealerships actually quite intimidating spaces but having access online and sort of acquiring a certain amount of knowledge and so easing yourself into the art market initially pass to ally and then acquiring knowledge in discussions. We've gallery owners and dealers and solve that seems to me to be a way of increasing the accessibility of the art market. So i think this shift to digital. It's not going to be quite the retail because of the necessity of having expertise but what it does do. I think he's break down some of the barriers some of the perceived elitism. Because i don't think it's necessarily fab the perceived elitism around the market and democratizing these opening off to our wind up the pulse of the next few years. So i think that's a huge area of potential and pull opening up that democratizing. Call it what you will continues to happen. I guess that big audience then that big a market bring other sensibilities in but interestingly one stat. That really jumped out at me. From the report was about sustainability which we know is a real core theme for particular millennials young entrance into the market but in intriguingly i think in in the piece almost eighty percent even of high net worth existing collectors. Surveyed said they're really thinking about sustainable options when it comes to purchasing are the management of collections and so forth. And this is another interesting thing. I think that brings in one of these big key. Global secular themes that informs all of the discussions. We have on this program. Sustainability is a is a critical issue even within the market. Absolutely i think this is part of sustainability becomes embedded in people's thoughts a across the board. It's not. I recycle bottles. Therefore i am sustainable. That's enough people are being very holistic about sustainability in such a crucial part of of how people live now. And yes that is going to include things like your collection and we've seen obviously there's been been interest in oxford is commenting on the environment designed to manage collections in a sustainable way. If this is something which i think is becoming a key. Part of people's lives and it's very important for the millennial generation who have particularly embraced the stability and the millennial generation of becoming really quite significant as art collectors. They were more significant as purchases of arms than mine generation for example. So you'll start to see a generation that is very very conscious of sustainability in the imperative dealing with the environmental credit crunch actually also becoming a local significant in the art world. And now i think he's. He's going to be setting a trend for years to come paul pastures. Finally i wanted to ask you to reflect just briefly actually answered overall. Ubs house few about about arts and collecting. Generally you alluded to this already. Because it doesn't function just as a pure market. It's very human. It's very sort of intuitive. It's very personal. In fact we're hearing some reflections from my colleague bound here at monocle earlier about the importance of that humanity that immediacy going to art fairs again in person. You get your eyes on works particularly if you think something like painting. It's you can't really capture that truly perhaps or online. Is it difficult. As looking through an economists lens to put a value on that kind of aspect of it the human the emotional and presumably offers a one of these examples because it could be the fact that you could make a big sale. You couldn't make their impression. Is that a hard thing to have. Quantifies the right word but to make sense of it is because in theory if you decided to purchase a piece of opposite matters fair enough but it is an emotional experience people become emotionally involved with. I mean that's awful. Partly point of art is supposed to generate an emotional response can be quite difficult to generate an emotional response over zoo or an emotional response which is in danger. I suppose because that's quite easy to generate on any kind of video conference call. This need to experience in person. Is i think very important but of course it is very difficult to pose a hard economic number on the tend to be honest. And that's because of course what we talking about here with with emotional responses. It's not necessarily a rational response. Frankly too much economics. His is grounded in this nonsense of people. Rational point clearly not so it could become very very difficult to sort of mobile together possession of it. I think as we look for is what we are probably going to win with is more hybrid world as we're seeing in in many other aspects of the office or retail. Whatever think we will end up with a situation where for example affairs will be in person and people will be able to go along and enjoy the experience but perhaps also be a digital presence as well running alongside the physical off. Galleries will continue to have digital sites because of course that gives you the accessibility to people who might perhaps be intimidated. Allows people gradually entrance the market but that physical presence also allows people to enjoy the emotion. The art is supposed to be about pull. Donovan brings us to the end of this edition of the bulletin with ubs setting agenda in fast moving world of finance each week here on monaco. Twenty four listen out full reports or through the week from puzzle or monaco. Twenty four and you can again and find out more about this program as a ways at monaco com or wherever you get your podcasts bulletin with ubs monocle twenty four.
Doing bagels business in Basel with Vicki Kirn from ARBUCKLES bagles
"Hello hello and welcome everyone to our next episode of helping trait podcast where we give space to enterpreneurs and there startups. Today's guest is Ricky's and expert. Who came to Basel a while ago? Go now she owns a business and I would like you to take the stage for yourself and introduce yourself these. Thank you Steffan. It is a pleasure to be here today. Hey My name is Vicky CAIRN and I own our buckles are buckles is a business that helps people who suffer from hyme Faye on Fan and and what I've realized since I've been in Basel since two thousand four is there are certain foods that people miss very badly from home. If you are from the United United States one of those foods might be bagels and our buckles produces hand formed visually baked bagels for ex pats. Who Miss a bite of home under breakfast table but also for Swiss and Germans who have traveled to New York City or other places where bagels are very popular and who'd like to bring appification home? Great that touch with a bit of familiarity also different value also bit of emotional level connection you bring and also in the name of our buckles right yes. I'm giggling because finding the name for business was an extraordinarily ordinary difficult and ever it took years are buckles is the maiden name of my maternal grandmother and my grandmother who we in the family called. phoebe phoebe was the master of making people feel at home. Do you did that by putting food on the table in a very uncomplicated fashion. That made them fuel well after she died in two thousand fourteen. It just sort of came to me that our buckles would be a good choice for a name. It definitely has has some challenges as a name but the business will grow into it. I liked the name. Read something that causes me being curious about it and also I'm wondering what what is this. Why is it our buckles? Read about it and it's like Oh this is a nice touch you're bringing part of yourself into the business world. Thank you so I was just going so far with a Bagel oh business in Basel the Bagel business in Basel this. It's been a very interesting experience. I actually started producing bagels in two thousand in fifteen. I started the business in two thousand seventeen. I've been in Basel since two thousand four and certainly the availability of bagels has increased traumatically since that time nevertheless it is still not possible in my opinion to find a good bagel outside of our buckles and many of the bagels that you find are either mass produced and they're on the very bottom shelf in the grocery store by the pre-packed bread that lasts for at least eight months. If you don't open open the package or some of the bakeries in Basel have also begun to sell bagels which are really just bread with a hole in the middle. So I'm excited needed for our buckles in terms of we don't really have a lot of head to head competition at the moment. The challenges for our buckles has to do around time and time missing listen very expensive. Commodity in Switzerland and hand formed bagels. Take a lot of time. The process itself begins the day before the bagels are baked baked the day before is when they are mixed and formed they rest overnight in the refrigerator and then the day they are baked. They are first boiled and then they're baked. It's a laborious process that takes a long time getting the economics around Bagel production right and being able to sell them at a price. Which is affordable audible for people? I mean clearly. They still fall in the luxury product category with their price there are definitely some challenges on that aspect. Additionally Basel Stadt like very many cantons in Switzerland although not all of them has high expectations around the working conditions particularly the kitchen. So one has the challenge Alan of finding a kitchen or creating kitchen that has been blessed by the Laban's Middle Inspector so there from the Canton all chemistry department and this of course also adds significantly to the costs of running the business. Nevertheless I'm pleased with how the business has grown it has grown quite slowly since it started. This is also due to the fact that I have small child at home and have very many different demands on my time but growth is certainly continuing steadily early next year. Twenty twenty will be a critical year for seeing. What's possible and if the business continues to move forward in its present? Form is going to be critical because you've got to do something like a reality check where you look back and reconsider steps or because conditions happening or something that you expect to happen. Both of does actually so certainly of course I mean I I need now too so the businesses in two thousand seventeen so yeah. It's got a good year and a half half under its belt and the end of the year is always a nice time for reflecting on what's happened before. And how do we want to move forward so there will definitely be reflection around that and also so again around the economic questions of it like can I afford to keep moving forward with this business in this fashion. So those will be some considerations. There's a change ancient kitchen that I'm presently renting I rent from someone else and she's dissolving her business so what happens with kitchen going forward. What kind of additional expenses would that look like if I were to take it over if I don't take it over where we'll go and there are a number of fairly critical factors that will have to be addressed in the first quarter of next? We're definitely cross your fingers. And I hope this podcast recording holes for healthy to attract people to your business. Thank you we can use. Use It to tell me how did you start with baking bagels. Is No something that someone comes up all of a sudden the BAGELS. Now especially with your background in. We were doing in our projects if I remember well so that's quite a switch correct. Yes Sir I haven't done also instead of different things in my life but most recently before or bagels there was a project manager for HR projects. It's a very unexpected story. Actually and it's kind of long you'll just trim it as you need to for your podcast. I I I was curious about sour dough and so I started a Sour Dole mother. So that's when you have the flour and the water and and I used grapes for the bacteria. I just was curious how you could go from water and bread and grapes to something that you used as a base component for making taking bread so I started my starter and for people who have done this before. You know that there's a tremendous amount of waste because the very hungry at the beginning and you're constantly dumping in more flower and more water and you end up literally with leaders of this stuff and so I was busy feeding my sour dough and I was working my job at the time and I it came home one night and it was time to feed it and I took the lid off it and it smelled so revolting. I mean it just disgusting but there with so much of it. There was at least four leaders of it. I didn't know how to dispose of it so I just covered it back up and I put it in the corner. I thought I'll deal with it on the weekend and and I just went on my way when I got to the weekend and I took the lid off. It smelled like bread. It was this incredible chemical process taken taken place so then I had this hour dough starter and I'm like I don't know what to do with it because I wasn't a big bread. Baker and I looked through my cookbooks and I found a bagel recipe. ooh I haven't the Bagel in a long time twelve years at that point and so I started making my goals and I was curious after a while to find out if there was a market for Bagels so I did some fundraising on facebook. One of the reasons I did it as a fundraiser was. It was the only way to advertise within some facebook communities. Immunities that I wanted to be in so did the fundraiser for the victims of Earthquake in the poll in two thousand fifteen and it turned out that that was actually the start. Start of my legal making career. Those customers at that time served as the first members on the mailing list and the mailing list has now. I've been going for almost five years. And that's how my Bagel Bagel life got started. Did you have any experience so the economics behind running. It's essentially guests run on the business or did you start with the paper and everything was just empty and you had to write it yourself. I did not have any experience around those aspects of running a business and so I didn't even start with paper and pen started with flower water in mixer and curiosity really over the years. I've done the weekend courses about opening your own business and Basel and I've done a number rip different courses through job compass which is a company and Boscell lighted in total. Six weeks. Of course is there which was all in Swiss German which was an unbelievable which was an unbelievable challenge to go through the finance unit in Swiss German. And I've participated in a program with Crescendo. Which is fine nine immigrant in Holland which was also around opening your own business? So over the years I've had quite a bit of exposure to this is what you should do in how to do it. And of course course when you really get down to the business of running a business classroom learning is of limited help in my opinion you really just have to get going and and and then you see how things apply and you see what needs more attention. And which bits you thought you understood. But you didn't actually understand and have to have have to relearn or find someone who can support you with time. Also outsourcing certain aspects of IT business. It's no no not at this time and again this also comes back to the economics because in order to sell a Bagel. That would pay any kind of salary for me and for another person to do anything. I would have to have big goals. That were priced so high. Wouldn't be possible to sell them and that's one of the challenges for next year then is to either look at the production process and see see how that can be made more efficient. I've got some ideas around that and or to look at complementary products so that we can get more cash into to the business so that I can enable myself and I can enable the business to get some more expert help in some some functions. I can imagine the challenges and every step uh of doing your specific business starting with logistics for example and the distribution on the other hand. So let's start with logistics. How you solve that? How do you plan for that? What do you mean I mean when you're talking about logistics at this point while I suppose you're mailing list for example the orders come every day and you have to redistribute it to your customers which can can be anywhere around the city and also have the demand when it's supposed to be delivered? So how do you plan for that being no you by yourself. I have set the business up in a way so that I can handle that as a one woman show essentially the mailing list or facebook communicates the established speaking dates for the month. So I determined at at the beginning of the month when Bake and I let people know that and people place their orders in advance to be picked up so they come and collect their bagels on the designated baking date. I'm not baking in the kitchen every day and I'm not running bagels. All over town to different people and things like that decision has been made it much more possible support for me to keep the logistic issues under control now. Of course I have some business customers and they get bagels whenever they order BAGELS bagels. Though I must say from the the production perspective are quite well suited to a mother's life. Because I can actually go to the kitchen and prepare them after my child has gone to bed and if I have to who I can go back to the kitchen and bake them before she's gotten up and so I have very short nights enables me to sort of get customers their bagels and take care of my other responsibilities. He's at home. What about finding new customers? What channels are you using? Currently I'm pretty old but I'm trying to use his instagram disaster instagram. But I'm giving it my best. Go Use instagram facebook. And I am present yet some markets in town so occasionally I met this his own Maqta from the Matteo smart which is on Feld I also am more regularly at the bright to mark which is in the brighter unser across Gaza. I've also recently without the slow food marked and the Mark Hollow which was very interesting place to be. That was a great market. Actually those are the channels. I'm using present largely because they're fairly low cost and I have exposure to a lot of different people with that. where I we see a challenge for next year though is my customer base is largely out of the English speaking community and they would of course be interested to have more more people out of the German speaking community so more Swiss origin and where to find those customers who I know are around? This is a challenge. And that's something that ninety to address next year also have customers across Switzerland where you can ship bagels in for example frozen form. I do have some customers in different canton on Switzerland. Fortunately bagels are. They're very hardy bread product if they are wrapped in plastic. I don't freeze them because the logistics around around freezing things shipping it so that it stays frozen in this whole cool character is how they talk about that in German is something that I I don't need to get into because of the nature of bagels. So ship them with our post. They arrive the next morning. A BAGEL in any case should be eaten toasted if it's not eaten straight out of the oven so there's no problem with that at all until I've sent bagels to the valley since I even got to Basel Land. You know people. It's just not convenient for them to come to Basel. And they've gone onto the Chino so bagels go wherever there's command this fascinating with the right setup. I can only imagine that you're shipping keeping across Switzerland on a daily basis tons of bagels in future maybe even create something like distribution centers or hubs within Switzerland. which will make the baking for example for you or just preparation of it though that would require certain level of automation included? I suppose I suppose so for I know your creation of Bagels is hand made. Let's do plan on keeping it. That way. Is there additional value individuals. ooh thinks additional value. That's of course very interesting question and that that really gets the bigger question enough. What is the value of artisanal project? What is the value of handcrafted? Small batch and I know that some people put great value on that because they like to know whether mcvay food came from and how it was created and who created it on a lot of people. Don't care I understand both reactions very well. Optimization in the Bagel production in process is certainly possible there is a Bagel producer in Zurich. Who I'm sure has fully automated process? There are machines where you basically dump your big Blob Bob Dole in the top. And it's it's it's a Bagel out at the bottom. The last time I looked those run between thirty and forty thousand francs so that is not anywhere very. It's not anywhere in the near term future. My vision is actually to use our buckles as the way not only to put should delicious bagels on people's plates but to create working opportunities for parts of the population in Basel who have fewer chances. And so specifically I'm thinking of women who have come from different countries who for whatever reason have a challenge getting into the Swiss job mark when you look around Basel and they're a very many immigrants from Traya and there are a lot of immigrants from different countries in Asia and these are women who understand bread so they have the feeling in their hands for how to work. They are keen to work. And it's difficult to get into a Swiss kitchen for lots of different reasons. Some around the language around preconceived he conceived notions of the hiring manager Cetera. And so what I would really like to do is to create a business where we continue to make the bagels by hand we give the of opportunities to immigrants in Rowan to work in Swiss kitchen to work exclusively in German for half a year to a year so that they can then leave the kitchen with an r bites organise that shows they know what to do. They're comfortable getting around in the environment. And so that that would really be my sort of Goldstar Vision for how are buckles develops in the next. Eighteen to twenty four months is to have enough orders to have economic sorted out so that it's it's possible to bring on one or two more women give them this opportunity when you're gonNA do a reality check. Please don't forget these value because I find it amazing and conspiring to begin with only creating a great product which has a connection to your own family values for example you bring it to the two people that value did any way because the hind described. Is there homesick feeling but additionally you tried to implement also people who have difficulties to get on the labor market at the thing thing. You're giving a labor market and definitely also grocery market in Switzerland extra value. If you bring out the word on the market people will appreciate appreciate it. I hope so I hope so as well definitely I mean If you require help from one specific expert who would you ask ask for what. Oh Wow. That's a fabulous question who ask them. What of course that changes over time? Doesn't it as you sort of reach reach new milestones and hurdles at this point as I mentioned earlier twenty twenty is going to be a really critical here in figuring out how how to transform the business into something where I can actually earn a wage and put our buckles on the right path for the future and I'm on the lookout now for someone with a business development background. Ideally someone with fat background. Who has experience in gastronomy in Switzerland who has a super solid financial background? That's that's the person I'm looking for. All right considered as a CO founder joins the forces if such a person appears to hold on one hundred dollars potentially potentially potentially. I suspect that to get our buckles where it needs to be there is going to have to be either some sort of a crowdfunding exercise or some an external infusion of cash into our coffers so yes I'm a fairly pragmatic person. I'm open to most open to considering almost anything. Sure I mean I'll have my ears open a meeting interesting people quite regularly these days. I'll be more than happy to forward. You contact details anyone else find. It may interested in your business and I find it fascinating. I liked it very much. The story itself is Great. I mean expect from America comes to Switzerland opened bagels factory essentially and employs not only Swiss people but also people with immigrant background great. We'll see how it develops. Are you also experimenting with products experimenting all the time. Yes so. I'm I'm not sure exactly what you what you have in mind. But certainly I regularly introduce new flavors and those flavors come through is than as an special flavors flavors and they don't last for very long as an example in October. There's the Pumpkin Spice Bagel and this year was the third year that I offered the Pumpkin Spice Bagel and it was really very popular this year. So that was an interesting interesting thing to observe that people were waiting for it. People were really happy when it was back. We've got special flavors fruit the holidays this year. There's depend on the Bagel. That's a lovely story. Actually because I have a customer. Who's WHO's been with our buckles for a long time? And he's Italian and he's like Vicky. You need a panic Tony Bagel. He said last year so I put a note in my calendar to talk to him in September of this year. A Nice Okay Francesco. Let's talk about this Tony Bagel because I'm not a big on the eater and and so we worked together. Only we developed a recipe for penetration. So we have different different flavors that come through. I think I'm probably the only Bagel producer in Switzerland who's also offering rainbow bagels and Rainbow Bagels. which are sometimes called Unicorn bagels goals which we've decided in German are? The Alana bagels are very colorful. TINKLE's so those come out for some markets and then beyond just the bagels themselves themselves. I began in September to offer Bagel making courses so I offer a three and a half to four hour course in the kitchen where we go through the background bagels which nobody can decide any of the historical points with any accuracy on bagels. So we just talk about what the most likely scenario is for where they came from and how they made their way around the world and so we look at the history and then we get our hands dirty and we make bagels and we form bagels and we drink and we eat and we just laugh ourselves. Silly it's actually tons of fun so we have that course is now up and running and and for next year. I'm looking at developing course for families so that families can come to get parents with their children or grandparents with children or whomever also for next year looking looking at specifically for children are Rainbow Bagel making course for example for birthday parties or something children could come to the kitchen make their own rainbow bagels. which which are really quite something to look at and those so those are some things that are also in the works for next year? Amazing I'm looking forward to take part in one of those courses. That'd be great. You should it so much. Being experimentally bagels very interesting. We are almost at the end of our recording. Therefore Mickey's something you would. I'd like to address which is something that you want to spread out the word. Is this something. You'd like to request helping tradeoff general. Well I would certainly like to encourage everyone one to go to the website or follow us on facebook definitely sign up for the newsletter. People can do that at the website and the newsletter will not overwhelm anyone Z.. Mailbox it comes out once maybe twice a month and again at the beginning of the month I let people know the baking dates and for people who are interested in following along. I also also maybe eight times a year put up a blog post about building a BAGEL business in Basel because they really like alliterate and building a Bagel business in Basel is just so much fun with all those piece in it. So we'd certainly encourage people to sign up for the newsletter and to come and visit us at market and say hi in contract bagels. That would be great fun and people who are interested in the course. I'd love to hear perfect great. We'll make sure to share the link on our blog posts and also Lincoln KC our other channels in that case Vicky. Thank you very much for taking part in Podcastone was pleasure to have you here and I hope is recording the also healthier business. Thank you Stephanie. It was a pleasure and I hope so. It'd be interesting to have you in twenty twenty two decision making to see where to go from now. Great I'll be interested to. We know what happens if that podcast to the thank you very much for your time and effort and I hope to see you very soon again and our listeners. Thank you for listening. linkoping enjoyed this episode today. And say thank you hello.
Art Basel: are the buyers back? Plus, Mary Beard on images of power, and Christo and Jeanne-Claudes LArc de Triomphe, Wrapped
"We cannot be sponsored by christie's visit christie's dot com to find out more about the world's leading auction house in seventeen sixty six auction private sales online anytime. Hello and welcome to the weekend off. I'm been leaked this week. The art basel fairs district in switzerland. So our collective back. And are they buying as well as two to jane morris and editor at large at the newspaper about art basel. I talked to the classicist. Mary bid about her new book. Twelve seizes looking at representations of power across two thousand years of history and in this episode work of the week we focus on cristo and jen clothes locked triomphe wrapped last ever wrapping project by the late. Gio i talked to vladimirovich christos nephew. Who's overseen the final stages of the project in paris before that assist book a brush with is back for a new series of four episodes with in-depth artist entities. The latest episode is brush with tessa. Dean subscribe wherever you get your poke us to hear that and to explore the archive of more than twenty five conversations now after being cancelled last year and postponed earlier this year. The art basel fair finally opened in basel. This week galleries have been nervous about a dearth of collectors. After the us issue do not travel advisory for switzerland at the end of august prompting art basel to send a letter of reassurance and concessions to exhibitors pledging to foot the bill for any hotel quarantine and create a solidarity relief fund apportion doubt to any gathering disappointed with their sales of the fair. So what's it like in basel now. The fares open jane morris and editor at large for the art newspaper has been at the week and i spoke to her about her impressions. Jane teaches ahead of the fair. Because of this advice from the us government about traveling to switzerland where the justice founded or unfounded. Say they will obviously lots of justice before the fast started because if the us travel advisory people didn't expect the americans to come by and large They didn't really expect many visitors from asia. Obviously the america is still the largest section of the market. It's probably won't forty five fifty percent of of the market And asia as we know is growing rapidly now. It has turned out that it was true. The very few americans had the awesome opinion. Sperry on on who and why. But the awesome And i'm sure there will be the old agent collector hair. But but in general there are very very few americans and very very few asians nevertheless it does look like the european collectors have turned out in force. It inevitably feels a little quieter eleven. Am on the first day. I stood outside domestic plots that i went into the central area where i was a little bit earlier because they allow people to flow into the central area and it felt quiet within an hour or two again it felt quieter but there were loss of conversations happening on both floors and several dealers said to me that although they were nervous about those first top lavar actually things started to improve very quickly and i think it would be fair to say that the european collectors have enjoyed certainly the ones. I've spoken to have enjoyed the fact that it's nothing like as crowded you know. The americans often russia in and start making deals really quick. I mean these are gross simplifications. But but this is what tends to happen. Europeans have had longer. They've had more conversations. It's been slow but there's no doubt that the loss of sales have happened. Can you tell me about some of those sales of the galleries. Been you details of. What about what they've sold. Yes i mean. There's actually quite long lists of reported sales coming out now. This been reporting about this scare that song fantasy go as far as i'm aware that's not yet sold. It's priced at reportedly forty million and it's a really good one. It's one thousand nine hundred ninety three. It's called hardware store. It's like two colored boards yellow and blue and the words estimated value written on it. Obviously it's been very widely photograph. There's been a lot of talk about it as far as we know not yet sold but lots of other things in the million plus mark have gone. A couple of the highlights was a beautiful philip. Guston on has earned the poet from nine hundred seventy five that sold for six and a half million dollars a large ration book that's being shown in auto limited by a today ray pack could railing salvage that sold for four and a half million dollars and a set. It's been several of those large three. Four five million dollar sales reported obviously the vast majority of sales are probably more in the kind of low end. Forty thousand dollars up to half a million. But there's been lots and lots of them reported. I should say this sort of reporting is always quite skewed there. Thirty two hundred and fifty galleries. Here everybody goes into talks to the big ones i. Everybody talks to hauser white cube pace one and then they probably go and talk to the galleries with artists that they like so inevitably. We skew are reporting. It is quite possible that there are smaller and mid level galleries. Who haven't yet sold anything. Having said that the galleries. I spoke to generally seemed very very happy. I spoke to alison. Jack and she'd done very well. She specializes in women. Artists sometimes more historic. Also some younger ones. She'd done very well mendez. Would which has got a very large selection often of brazilian artist amongst others. They've done very well. So i mean. Generally people seem to have done well. You've been to several basel fares before one of the things said about basel with the galleries. Wait to sell their best. Fair works of the year at basel. Where is the fad. Everybody loves the most is the one that they saved their best works for. Do you think that's the case this time. Or because of the sort of skewed nature of the market at the moment it feels different slightly. Went what people mean. When they say the best works i say let's tops clarify. I would say that. Generally people bring the best work by the autism. They have chosen to shay but most galleries. The big ones represent up to they could be as many as eighty artists and one end. They'll have kind of whoever they think is a hot young thing and at the other end they could be. We could be talking about an artist. Estate of an artist too is absolutely firmly established in the canon. So yes i think. Generally people don't bring b and see list works by the artist they represent but there's a big choice about which artists to bring. I mean obviously is one of the things i wanted was to reduce click to base at the fair with that necessarily mean that people conservative in what they did bring because then they would be more guaranteed to sell. Yes absolutely i think for me. Often limited was the first. Let's say not the only one but was the bellwether fat because it opens opens on the monday evening before the main fabric the following day auto limited show mr listeners. Know but just in case you. Don't it's a warehouse space and it's used for very large scale works so could be very big sculpture. Very large paintings often has a lot of video. And it's going to be an early or something up also says it's curated but it's not curated in the way of being is curated so the route themes running through. It does depend what the data's have decided to bring but it can vary from some very very exciting out there installations. You could even have very long video. Just gives a flavor of what people feel is like sell. And i think the thing that was very noticeable. Some years it's very risk-taking some years. It is full auto ferry largest relations. That might have a lot of digital elements incorporated. You could have big videos long videos difficult videos and people are really showing them to show their program. This time. i thought it actually looks really good because it is surprisingly large amount of minimal. Older artists establish masters. Who look very good in this kind of space. So there was a huge. Dan flavin pink. Dan flavin from nine hundred. Seventy four in the middle. The john chamberlain. It's not one of the crushed cars. It's like this huge of tinfoil structure and know it looks absolutely great in there. There's a pink sort of set of pink minimal canvases by tourists baletic. But i just kept thinking. Gosh there's a lot of classic americans hair. There's a lot of mid-century italians here. There's a really fantastic installation of works. By sherrie levine reflect graphs other artists. And this one is cooled off to wrestle lee. Now it's actually quite a more recent work. But when i think of sherrie levine. I think to the seventies early eighties. It's actually so that runs throughout unlimited. A few people have been a little bit more experimental say lawrence. Abby hamdam sound installation installed but by and large. I'm not saying it looks like deer that would be aggrandizing auto limited but it definitely has an odor dare if you notice. I mean it's really curious because of course the fact that this is happening is a landmark moment because the major fairs we had we had the armory. Just have the armory in new york for instance. But you know so. Many major fair postponements. It's been the sort of crisis area of the market really. Does it feel to you like there's a sort of general sense in which this is getting back to normal. What does it feel more like. They still this'll tyrannous. They're still the sense that we're not sure what's coming next. People like this is the first step towards normality. I would say this is the first step towards normality. Actually i think what i would start by was people with very very happy to be back in the fair. The was a bit of a sense of the number of people said it back to school reunion because so many of us there. It was much easier to see people. You know your friends you know. It was also easier to talk to people. You didn't so. I found that i could go up and talk to galleries that i didn't know tool and people were very friendly. Very happy to speak. And then you'd bump into somebody. You haven't seen for the best part of two years so i think people were very happy to be back together again. I think people very happy to see art in the real again. A number of curator's there were a lot of curator's hair again. People talked about the fact. That the big american curator's went here and they miss them. You know big patrons groups again same but the key racists who are here said just how nice it was to see off again. Even though these are the people who don't tend to love office. So no. I mean i think people would definitely happy to be back. Of course people have used digital a lot. But i do think there's a question about how much people are largely using digital is marketing and communications rather than really sales till i noticed this question about young asian buyers. There's also a lot of discussion about i. Think speculation over that where the office being used much more like a an investment. By but i would say that certainly the european collectors and curate his. I talk to happy to be back at a fair. Actually i don't think they love endlessly scrolling through vr's and that's a little side point. I would also nature. It's actually only forty percent. Roughly of the galleries here. I've actually done. The apostle is the time that's interesting. Yeah because we were told in a way the headlines rule about how over your kind of a now central part of that package and eventually would sort of have parity with the sort of impersonal sales. But you think that that's not certain. I think this is such a difficult one. Because if you if you sort of raise questions about digital leverage immediately six you're a dinosaur and and i think that's not true. I think obviously people are happy to buy and sell things online. But i think we should also be clear very few art. Sales are true digital sales. By which i mean you saw it online you paid for it. Online you shipped has never online and you didn't literally see the thing until it landed on your door because the gallery. Ooh wants to intervene in that process so most of the sales processes are encouraging you to then speak to a gallery director. Who then you sit with on zoom no doubt and then they show you the work of arguably it's still sort of digital but i don't think it's digital in the way. The retail world recognizes a true digital sale. I also think as is often discussed. It's much easier if you know. The office work really well. And i think if you're very familiar with an artist's work. I think you'd have any problem buying something online. And as i say if you're a new buyer who's essentially buying in a more speculative way you wanna buy hot artist you want to flip it around get into auction either. Six eight months later. Then i can also see that fine because you don't really care what the world looks like not actually intending to keep it. I'm not saying that the will not be large amounts of digital sales. I'm just saying. I think the jury is a bit out. I think artists such an expensive object even cheap parties really expensive and the number of people who can buy it a really very few. And i do wonder how many people actually collect because they really like coming fares and light going to galleries and like meeting the artist and like hanging out with the dealers. I mean lots of them. Say that that's what they like now again. I'm not speaking to twenty five year olds so no. I'm not really get out. But i do think the fact that a substantial majority of the galleries as basel didn't choose to use the art basel. Avia says something no quite sure. what yes. i'm to enough people It's a really interesting development. I wanted to like having a sparse affair. Having fewer collectors gave you more insight into how much selling was done in advance of the fair because of course the fair is the theater. It's the it's this grand moment and it's meant to be bazi those kind of things but we do know that lots of sales happened before fares. Laser stuff is set up avant. Has this fair given you any more perspective about just how much of that happen. I'm sure people did a lot of work before the art fabric. I think we've got to put ourselves into the shoes for gallery here. Spending an awful lot money to come here. Everyone will have been worried. I think that we were all worried. What happens if you get corona virus while you're here and you end up having to stay in switzerland at great expense and goodness knows where because all tells them for for ten days or whatever the rules are just those sort of practical things aside. Just imagine any fair. Would you turn up with a stand having spent all this money and just cut a hope that people are gonna turn up. Of course you wouldn't. I think you would. Of course do an awful lot of preparation and of course preparation means contacting all your collector pace sending them works that you think will interest them probably talking to them in advance encouraging them to come encouraging them to buy yes. I'm sure quite lots of things were sold really in quotes before they got here. But you always need some reason to make people part with their money again sort of so basic. But if you don't need another coat a new coat in a shopping you know it's going to be there for the next two years. What's the motivation to go and buy it. And i think a lot of people felt that off as provide that kind of moment where you've got a chance to say to the people make decisions now or somebody else is going to buy it and again if you think about the digital space and you think about what say galleries like a goes. You did in the lockdown with those forty eight hours sales. They were absolutely quite clearly trying to create an event with fixed moment. Where somebody has to say. Actually i need to buy this now because otherwise i mean it's human nature. A lot of us would sit and think about it for quite a long time and might even think about it so long that we've gone off the coat or the picture we with so what about the makeup of galleries at the fair. Does it look much as it has done. In the past overall i would say that the gallery list does look pretty similar. The cool gallery list. The vast majority of galleries who come to basel will want to come to basel. I don't think you can see less bellwether affairs in general It's reached a particular level. I think in the modern contemporary world unoccupied the leading fathom the basel. Fair is the leading factor. So if you're gonna come to any offer you'll get to come to this one. Even in corona virus. Yeh because you will at the very least get access to all these very top. European collectors is nice. I say i heard rumors that some really big americans had come in probably on private jets. So you know. Some very collectors came and the galleries are going to want to come and see them. So the coolest. I think does look pretty similar. I mean the was moment when i turned a corner and saw some. What's by correct fits. And i thought it wasn't the same works. But i really did. Have a sense of deja vu. I was like. I'm sure i saw something very similar here. Two years ago having said that. I mean like all fairs puzzle has sections are specifically designed to encourage new galleries to apply so one of my very laker galleries. Emily which has gone the sort of east end bethnal. Green shortage area is here for the first time in the statement section and then this features another section way. It's often galleries. That would normally show they show a special presentation or it's a new gallery special presentation so of course like all fairs basel does want to bring in some new fresh faces. However the biggest sense of deja vu was on the first floor which is the the more contemporary floor. And i turned around. And i see jeffrey daij. And he's got that same space that he always had the one with the stairs going up and he's actually put work on all say three floors top one very tiny but up the staircase and i let him i. I'm sure that hasn't been here for years. But maybe not. As many as i think so anyway i went to speak to. He's actually come back for the first time in twelve years to occupy his old space so that was kind of old new presentation. I tell us is that just a sort of anomalous presence at the fairies in. He's he's always been a maverick. And he's being maverick. I think she's a maverick being maverick. But i suspect he likes the fun of the fair. I have to say. And i think that quite a lot of people here have found themselves enjoying faz again. I don't think we will see people doing anything like as many fairs if they don't have to. I'm talking about galleries now. I'm not sure where the collectors are going to do as many fast. But i think the top level has baffled being the prime example shaw. They don't want it to be like this every year. But i definitely think they will be happy with how this year went. Now we've heard about covert protocols which seem a bit strict to the elsewhere in europe. So for instance. If you have the zeneca vaccine that you may not have been able to get into the fair. What was the reality when you got. Well the rules in fact changed on the monday. So if you flew on sunday i think many of the rules was still in place. Which is that you were going to have to have. Caveat tests every forty eight hours in fact. I arrived on the monday and found that because of that rule change. It was actually very straightforward. So i was very pleasantly surprised. I was pleasantly surprised at the apple. Although i still got the return journey to make i was pleasantly surprised the app i was pleasantly surprised. Here i think most people have felt once. You've got your wristband. It does make things much easier. It makes things easy rampton about basel genuinely have tried as hard as they can. Rules were coming from the swiss government around large scale events. But as i say those rules have changed having said that as far as i'm aware the still a number of flaxseeds. The two less common in europe should not recognize. And that's what caused a lot of the problems. We travel advisory from the americans but equally a lot of people i think in other places have been vaccinated with vaccines the art recognized. And i think that's really caused the difficulties last year Thank you so much for telling us thank you. It's really great to be hit her over latest art basel reporting at the art newspaper dot com or on our app for ios an android which is available from the app. Store or google. Play coming up. I speak to. Mary bid about her new book. And we look at cristo and jan close final fabric repping of a building in paris. But i hear a few of the top stories on our website. This week is national. Gallery has just acquired a painting which once formed part of hitler's fury museum as massing bailey reports the swiss artist alexandra columbus shelly at region from eighteen sixty one may have once been owned by a jewish victims of the holocaust before being looted for hitler's collection. It was recovered by american troops in ninety five and passed into public ownership before in one thousand nine hundred eighty five the austrian authorities decided that unclaimed artworks that may have been owned by jewish. People should be sold at auction with proceeds going to benefit victims of the holocaust. It was bought christie's in one thousand nine hundred six as pm. Linda a new lawyer with norwegian parents. He bequeathed it through the american friends of the national gallery. Where it went on display this week. The long-awaited guggenheim dahbi will been in five years. Time said the institutions direct too richard armstrong at a press briefing in basel on tuesday the museum outpost of the solomon guggenheim foundation was first announced in two thousand six designed by frank gehry it would be the guggenheim biggest space at around three hundred twenty thousand square feet. It was initially geeta open to twelve and then into seventeen. I site in colchester won the funds museum of year. Twenty twenty one hundred thousand pound prize is the largest of its kind was awarded to the museum in essex south-east england for being an outstanding of innovation and integrity. According to jenny wolfman the fund director and chair of the judging panel this museum one would impart for its work during the pandemic including hosting food bank critic free activity packs with renowned artists. Jury look down and running the great big art exhibition. She urged the public to make works of art and stick them in windows. The other shortlisted museums with a scientific contemporary derry londonderry experienced bounds lee. The factory museum medicine. They lead time timespan in hamilton. You can read all these stories and much more on the website and the app. We'll be back after this. So we cannot is sponsored by christie's on the first of september christie's objects from a unique collection of nineteenth century. Fine and decorative arts in anesthetic. Odyssey peter rosen albert galligan collection comprising three hundred lots of british decorative arts and paintings. The options led by the light of the world a contemporary studio version of william home and hump masterpiece that was in. Its time recognized as one of the most famous paintings in the world proceeds from the sale will go to benefit the abbottnicholson educational trust established in two thousand three the trust promotes and supports the study of nineteenth century british. Fine and decorative arts find out more on christie's dot com welcome back now. Mary beard the broadcaster and professor of classics at the university of cambridge has a new book out next week. Twelve caesar's images of power from the ancient world to the modern studies. how images of roman autocrats and particularly the twelve. Caesars beginning with julius caesar in forty eight bc and ending with the mission in nine hundred sixty of influence the representation of power for more than two thousand years from great paintings by hans memling titian two cartoons in contemporary newspapers. I spoke to mary about the book. Mary i wanted to begin by. Asking is the classics book or not. History book. I think it's both it's a classicist looks at art history and hopes that classics has got something to offer or history. Say that quite modestly. Because i'm not as you know. But i'm not an expert in titian or in renaissance tapestry. But i think sometimes it's worth just crossing the line bitten seeing if if you dig a from your own perspective you offer something indu modesty to the other subject and one of the things. Reading is the scope of the book when you talk about the modern period it really is an expensive view that modern period looking back at looking back at the ancient world isn't it. It's anything from fourteenth century onwards. Really all of that's modern to me. There's a nice quote going to quote back you near the start of the boot we says. Basically it's a book of discovery misidentification. Hope disappointment control versi interpretation and reinterpretation. That's super clearance found reading. Tell tell us about that. What team. I think what struck me as i work more on what. I called modern. Images of roman emperors was actually half fluids. The whole story of fat is it starts fluid because no one can quite be show in most cases while ancient statue is start to of which emperor or if it's an imparato so there is a kind of messy fluidity at the very beginning but then decade by decade century by century people have re identified those ancient studies. They've copied them. They messed them up. They misidentified them. They've lost them. They decided that in like a la- give us so they have a trajan instead they put the wrong labels on the bottom. They haven't read the latin or and so forth. And i think what has to be careful here because you know we all make mistakes. So a don't want the book to seem as if it's a kind of classicist coming along racking her finger and saying taught you you didn't see this was type. Areas of pulse of the pleasure of these emperors. Only part is that they have got everywhere and they'd be riyadh. They've been reconstructed differently. And then a been somebody decided. It wasn't julius caesar anyway et cetera et cetera. So it's good fun. It's a a detective story. Bill in this but very much comes across the chapter on julius caesar is very instructive. Isn't it because i hadn't realized until i read it that basically the idea of judea sees founded on a series of misidentified us. There's always this. This is good fun. I think it's liberating to discomfort that but a thing. Sometimes i'll kill just give suction impression of certainty. They got thinks straightened sorted that they missed the leap all including that. Somehow we know who's who and ost by students. Why was it so difficult to shoudn't five busts of julius caesar all therapy loaded. It took them ages to get to the point that they're all any which labeled non there isn't one that has come down with his name on bought from coin portrait but of course each age reinventing and that's another key point is yes that's right. I mean and so people both reinventing him and finding amongst the supposedly bona fide eighty ancient versions though some of those probably eighteenth or nineteenth century even when they look and finding you find that each kind of goes after different one the fines the images his image of caesar. This is the authentic image of caesar don from the life during his lifetime. Cetera et cetera. That somehow holds the field it gets replicated. Modern artists look to it. And that's going to be my base and then some some hopeless touchy comes along with somebody else speaking out for it and everything changes. The previous favorite ends up being put in store nineteenth century. Fake unless you already to to hold the stage for fifty s and yet there's something which which occurred to me when i read it was abc's stone which is of course. We sort of agree julius. Caesar look i think there's this partners fluidity but then the combination of his portrait on coins the copies and versions both ancient and modern on quite different in some respects. But the kind of converge onto kenneth williams in in carry on cleo. You're slightly gaunt. Face his own and the question is kind of pushed me and said. Do you think julius. Caesar really look anything like that. Well probably did. It's nothing like i think we're dealing with the phenomenon here but nothing like all kinds of culture. The modern portrait. Where in many ways. We're suppose to see the person whispers to even if it is not lifelike there is supposed to be a kind of essence or something about the person that's recaptured of an what's recaptured in vs an odd thing. It's just as important on this is political at what they stand for is is recaptured. So it's it's not a kind of romantic communing with the very being of caesar. It's julius caesar dictator of rent. You mentioned coins there. And of course there's a very nice chapter again about coins and not just about the coins themselves. But about the way that they are represented and reproduce that wonderful hans. Memling painting francis. Tell us about the memling and and what did that. Tell us about the significance of the coins. a think. what's very interesting about. Mumbling is the difficult who have here is holding up. The thing you notice is that he's holding up to the view of the portrayed a coin of near of never been all kinds of puzzles about this. Why is this presumably honorific portrayed in some sense why is this guy. Displaying a coin of one of the ancient world's renowned monsters being not so ingenious goods attempts to explain that that it's a pun on his name. Oh it was a coin he owned or whatever we really don't know but i think what it spot me off to see and i'm certainly not the first person to seen this late to the party. Is that before that say sixteenth seventeenth century. The image of the roman emperor image of romans really was fixed not by marble sculpture. It was fixed by little coins and the the cult of the coin in the restaurant part of it was quite nicely democratizing because not many people can own marble bust to them press but lots of people can own coins of emperors. But there was a way of seeing coins that we've just lost in a a some of it might be hyperbole but you know these guys dating a portrait of augusta's on on his coins this thing i am seeing the real person here. They are enthuse ing about the coin and about that direct contact. You know this is not like reading suetonius who might have given all kinds of biased version of augustus. Looks like look at this coin. And you're looking at something. Augusta's himself sponsored and i think that those numismatists to said look together and give slutty spirits technical charm the image of the roman imprisonment the strontium roman emperors fifteenth century. Fourteenth century was nomo centric focused on coins. We understand that. Because we are mom morris centric we find it very difficult thrill to a coin just to find it quite difficult. I think to thrill to a marble bust refined even mood to thrill to a coin. But that was where you got your first view until mental centric view of the pro and dodges. The caesar husband used all the time. Mr kind of the key to unlock the sculptures. How far does the sculpture let the coin vest. Lovely threats the book is. Is this idea that every age has a defining view of the classical world. Which is it's very much. it's own interpretation. And so for instance. The eighteenth century is littered with references to classical bodies in the way the rehearsals period responded to different elements of the classical world right in the nineteenth century. Although i think what you find is different emphases i think all these there is continuity in a way between all these threads through the period of the different periods but the emphasis shifts very strikingly. So of by the time you get to the nineteenth century you know okay. They've been very nasty pitches of niro inspecting the body of his dead martha he's killed for centuries but it becomes the focus of attention. How can you use this image to think about the paradoxes of monarchy on the corruption of power a Fourth and so you see the same means sitting. Let's means of being repeated but reemphasized in reinterpreted throughout the period talked about earlier on titian sees are really fascinating. Partly because we don't we have no means of accessing. Just how utterly. So how one widely circulated they were how important they were perceived to be how how they represented titian to so many people at the purse. Tell us about those. Yeah well also. They represented roman empress in a way. That now seems incomprehensible to us. You know that that would have been the vision. And the seizes commissioned by federick gonzaga for his camerino serie montier the beginning of the sixteenth century. And they have very check it history survive. They part of charles. I whole meant you a pieces. Coming to to. London then the fall of tulsa. I politely put they and going to madrid in the eighteenth century. That destroyed the grail kazaa fire. They've been a focus of attention and puzzlement on kind of detective story. Ever after one of the puzzle moments is that there's only eleven everybody thinks what diseases coming come in dozens twelve jesus and titian seizes as we can tell from descriptions on some copies that we have didn't include commission. And so there's been a lot of puzzlement still onset puzzlement about why he needed eleven. I think my my kind of my favorite bird explanation is that titian was was working in a small room. When julia ramona who is in control of the overall design and they couldn't fit twelve in three to the great visual moins of age somehow managed to miss measure dominate. You know what we're gonna do now. Let's just have to have eleven. And but it remains a of wonderful sense that you have incomplete series. You know we ever since the rediscovery and the refashion ability of suetonius notes. Caesar's caveman twelve and tisch economists This of a sequence. Which hasn't quite finished. I think it's it's partly a nod to dynastic continuity these not abounded series this quiet and but i think the hardcore titian scholars. It's you know it's been a hugely strating in a way because it what what was looked upon in the sense you know one of the central sets of titians masterpieces of just. What gone what you're left with is copies all kinds of different genealogy without the original whether that's imprint a weakness comes along and they add the twelfth caesar coast. Because huda helms caesar's they get copied and replicated all over europe as i say the socially the originals were burnt in yonkers are fire. But that didn't stop people thinking that hasn't been burnt really punch. Wonderful abraham darby. The full thinks that he's got some of titians real ones and on the people think they they managed to get to america. So you have the sort of loch ness monster styled version of what happened to titians. But they're also a cynic copied in paint most faintness boosted copy and print subtler around the turn of the sixteen seventeen. Th century does a series of of prince which also add in a domitian but become lower face or the titians and then then from the prince they get onto teacups into wax. Were remade back into sculpture. Until they sorta by the end of the nineteenth century of gone out of fashion and they were a very very different from what we or the nineteenth century expect because as far as we can tell from the copies they using coin paul traits to create the faces but they're sweet quarterly poll traits and incredibly. Vive atias louis. Posed somehow talking to one another in their original positions around the room. And you know in the end. I suppose they just didn't like what we want to look. I wondered about that because it seemed to me that there was a certain ability to each of them. And we don't in a way we won't. We don't want our twelve season to be noble each of them. Do we want them to be fallible. And venal and violent and we do but then what is very odd is the more artists to different sorts. Would still give you kind of casey images of collegue yuna who know if you read suetonius was the greatest monster of of the whole lot of them on. So there's a there's a funny of awkward negotiation between image and reputation and most artists find easiest to capture the bad reputational the bad in narrative seeds rather than portrait's you'd have i kind of obvious reasons how'd do you show a bad man or you can showing is above the neck but that's where some of these narratives of of murder snooping a court the nasty inside story of what it's really light. Gustsiest caught in horrible was absolutely obviously the titians made they way to madrid through the and i is a sort of pivotal character in this into a certain degree. Because of course there's also the the great m triumph disease of the by montana. That's still in the now. What chelsea i see in the music was how deliberate was his was his collection of of caesarian images. So far as i could make out of glorious moment didn't actually have much to do with the specific choices of it was his agents. He was doing this. We didn't send them with a shopping list thing bring those montana's but it is interesting that some of the key pieces that they bring focus on roman emperors and i i think one of the most interesting now admired actually or the the sequence of of montanez triumphs of caesar and i mean it's often i think being treated to uncritically up painting. I mean people are done amazing work on it and shown how these scenes of the triumphal procession. How montana is drawing on all kinds of antiquarian knowledge. They've been the subject of hugely important work. But but i think that it's only kind recently. And i'm thinking here popular the book by recent book by steven campbell. The people of looked at the figure of caesar the end of this. This the foods that you've got the loot procession being rome quintessentially conjured up on the final caesar on his chariot. The faces actually slept be painted but on the basis of quite copy and very few people really until imprint. maybe lots of people did not away recently observed what happens to season next. What's some expert the story where it's a summation you know. So you have this procession. It's in some ways cutting corners. It's it's the last major professional ceremonial event before these nation and view is surely knew that i do like the thought though. This is entirely my fantasy. But when cromwell park most of gels stuff flogged off he. The montana's triumphs. that's why they're still in hampton court. And i kind of liked to look all of a coma. Got the point. So the actually this the prequel to the assassination of the monarch. Lots of people will tell me that this is to save. But it's a nice fantasy. See it is indeed. And you mentioned tapestries. Those henry eighth tapestries. Unbelievably important works in that time. Yes and henry. The eighth commissions. A series of tapestries. Which are always said none of them now in their original form survive but their descendants to and you can tom. Campbell is a lot of good work on assembling a genealogy these so we can see what the series looked like. But i think what's important. I think this did take closest to see rather than an audience story. And i think it's kind of my brownie badge. Tapestry is here coming up. What what you have in these tapestries is not what. They're always to be scenes from the life of julius. Caesar what these scenes show without any doubt there illustrations of lukens epic on the civil war between pompey written under niro impart reveals the corruption of autocracy and the absolute the ills of civil war. So it's not a tapestries. And not a series of the life of caesar. There are a series of almost explicitly until autocratic in mitch's going to be a bit careful because lukin is being differently interpreted over the centuries and by the time you get back to the age of henry the eighth maybe. He's more thought of as somebody who's criticizing the evils of civil war. But he's never be thought of as a proponent of autocracy and you think okay so this were almost from another set of tapestries. The most expensive bits of stuff in how to court these were phenomenally valuable and their critique in some way of woman rule in a royal palace guys. Now do you start to explain that. And i think one explanation red faces all around when they arrive from the low countries household. Unwrap them and saw what they were. Like oh you know. What are we going to tell lose. Matches dealer base. Whoops possible by unlikely and i think it's much more likely that what you're seeing hia as with many of these images of emperors is not just the kind of o- kind of image of power legitimating my rule of might in has of course. They're also quite interesting. I think in in in searching on what must have been dialogues and debates and discussion about power and oil power on one man rule. Onlookers their owners kings themselves. Now the i did come to the conclusion much. I'm you know. I'm i'm not gonna kiss but working on this book did make me see it's damn difficult mccain and in the sense one of the things that kings are doing in their decoration thinking go back to the roman empire is talking about the difficulty and the problems of monarchy as much as bolstering their regime a field. That's in a way where this book has a bit of a message for now because now we have recently particularly in our recent start wars. We have come to a seem. I think that the public sculpture sculpture. General's is always celebrate story and that the people we have represented around us of people. We admire well. You can't take that line for the roman they knew. People who commissioned these words all knew what these guys were like in only one of them died in their beds without any any allegation of foul play. Know what you're doing is you're choosing problematic series of images unt nothing. Maybe it might be for us. Sometimes if we realize that images were not always about just these people we liked and indeed there. I mean that makes me think it's a very clear message from the book is that it seems to be the the messages that they can contain. That keeps everybody returning to the is why those stories are so competitive. The images of power are endlessly ultimately fascinating but also retail a malleable. And you do it from a different way round and you know what we think of niro so you know you got one of those famous images of nineteenth century. Waterhouse's miro lying on his bird after having had his mother murdered and he looks for all world like an adolescent moody adolescent. We've seen them and of course one of the things is about niro's is he wasn't there all kinds of ways re-casting and refocusing of user fees artists who've done it with aplomb for many centuries and they all still still doing it Thanks for joining us very much Twelve seizes images of power from the ancient world to the model is published by princeton. University press is published in the uk on the twenty eighth of september and price thirty pounds and in the us. The twelve tober price. Thirty five dollars and finally. It's time for these episodes work of the week last weekend. Cristo and jank. Lord's final wrapped building opened in paris luck to triomphe wrapped with i considered as an idea by christopher and jam clued in the early nineteen sixties. When christo lived and worked close to the monument and while janko died in two thousand nine christie was able to reinstigate the project in two thousand seventeen. Originally it was intended to be unveiled in april. Twenty twenty but a combination of the pandemic and the need to protect nesting. Kestrels in the arch meant that it had to be postponed. Christo then died in may twenty twenty before he got the chance to see. He's vision of six decades realized but his nephew vladimirovich. If who's worked on. Chris do and jank loads project for more than thirty years was able to complete the work to his uncle's wishes. I spoke to vladimir about the work vladimir. Could you give me a bit of detail about the background to the work. Because i know that first conceived of the idea of wrapping it sixty years ago but it hadn't been one of those projects where he been trying to do it for the last sixty years that is correct. The initial idea for the rob dog. The trump was conceived by christian college in one thousand nine hundred sixty one arrived in paris in fifty eight and he lived in paris between nine hundred fifty eight hundred sixty four and he became crystal in paris at that time in the in the late fifties because before that he was signing all his paintings mostly paintings up to that point with the last name jovic of and then he started making the packages and the other Contemporary works which can stars at signing crystal in the late fifties early sixties christopher's going to have a lot of proposes for rap public building and out being a parliament prison or monument or a stadium and the was one of those proposals where they made a photo montage. Actually the taj was done by. Shrunken candidate photographers. Did the famous eve klein photomontage of him. Jumping off the wall so they are a lot of ideas of the time About this Public buildings and some of them pursued some of them developed into being. The wrapped reichstag later on and the tree of just stay dormant until two thousand seventeen when Crystal walk it up again. Three basically in connection with this entre pump you do planning for a central pumper do exhibition. And it was proposed to him then that he did something public in paris right correct and the then Director of the pompidou bernard lee stern on the president of the pump Levin were asking if it's possible to do some sort of intervention and that's when the krista said i the only thing that would really like to do is due do the rpm fropped and they took it up. The chain of command. Sort of speak to mr bell evolved from the center of monument national turn to president macron. They'll actually quite like the idea and gives the okay and that sqauad basically developed before we start talking about the actual work. One of things. I was struck in seeing those weekend. Was that. It's not just a matter of wrapping your the trio. It's a matter of enormous like efforts to ensure that the public has the maximum viewing opportunity because you closed the junction that surrounds the auditorium. The press show. The goal is such a busy junction. And you've managed to get it pedestrian for the length of this project which it seems to me is an extraordinary commitment to culture. That was probably more difficult permission to get them. The actual to rob the are the twelve but it was a we convinced them finally because it was a safety for for the public. Mostly because when there's so many people coming this was a safety show and that's how we I'm just convinced the perfect tour to close. Plus the wild took about the technical aspects of the work itself because it's twenty five thousand square meters of the fabric and then three kilometers over rope. So tell us about. What kind of fabric is it. Because it's the shiny metallic power but also this blue color. The fabric is almost identical to the fabric that christians are closed. Used for the wrapped reichstag and the rub strikes was Quite a larger was four times. The amount of fabric one hundred thousand square meters of fabric and it's polypropylene loosely woven polly problem Six hundred grams per square meter so it's quite thick. It doesn't look like from far away but because of the scale of the building it Much silkier than it actually is and it's recyclable. Poly propylene and three kilometers of robo. Give the shape of The arc as crystal would've liked it and it's actually the most interesting thing about the fabric that and the difference between the fabric triumph from the reichstag is under the silver coating. It's blue and it's covered with the basically. The silver coating is pulverized aluminium which Food an older twenty five thousand square meters of fabric The company that does the coating used one kilogram of aluminium. Which is about as big as your fest. It's not very large amount than is not chemical process because it just pure minium that gives the very metallica shine. Yeah and it's the same process that was used. For as i said before the reichstag but it was also the same fabric and process christians until wanted to use for over the river. Which was the project. They abandoned and The only difference with over the river is the weight of the fabric was a little bit less. It was a heavy as the rub. Drake's the fabric. How much did the early wrapping of the earth contribute to the kind of goodwill of paris to allow this to happen because that was obviously a landmark project for christian junk food or a lot. I think there's a permission process which went relatively painless and easy It's just as a support of president macron. Of course but i think it's the the parisians had such a good memory of depa- noth- that was done in one thousand nine hundred five. That made it Much easier this time around. Krista was involved right to the end right so effectively. Every ascetic impractical decision was made with christo present and view because he saw the tests that life-sized tests that are so crucial. That crystal always said what absolutely crucial to the realization of the project. Yes absolutely he was involved in the selecting the fabric the robes the details of how the corners and the commission will be done to really the smallest detail. The only thing we have to change was that at the very bottom of the arctic triomphe originally. There is a bench that people sit on and the center of monument was wanting us to extend the bench just to replicate people considering it and then we did some tests and Crystal really didn't wanted but it was something that they asked us to have. And we did some tests and they look kind of okay and he accepted to do it in certain way to wrap the bench of fabric but not with the deep folds and then when we put the fabric down and i saw that the bench made the arc look like it was sitting on a plate. Not even on a plinth but like on a play. it just didn't look planted in the ground Talk to the man. They were quite understanding and the to visually that it doesn't fit so we managed to cut the bench and make the fabric really to the bottom. And what actually is really beautiful. Now if you're i don't know when was the last time you're there but the more time passes because people touch the fabric so much and decreases And where people touch the bluest coming through much more because of the. The aluminum that this pulverized coated on top of the fabric is not very durable and Which is intentional tool. And it almost looks like a. It's it's become much more sculptural. It looks like a bronze sculpture. That somebody which is the nose or go order fingers or the hand or the breast over bronze sculpture. How you know in the parks you see and then places that are much more rubbed off so it's really become much worse culture. I really think crystal would have enjoyed that very much. I love it it's It's very nice. How folks have really settled and this blue coming through. It's really beautiful lovely. Obviously you're you're speculating. What he would have liked. It must have been strange completing the project without him obsolete. That was the biggest challenge for me for him not to be here into a personal challenge was a challenge to to miss his enthusiasm. His excitement his criticism and We try to keep the excitement as much as We count the workers and it was actually it. It's still does feel like christos are talk project even without christian card which is a great compliment and also i personally think it really does look like the drawings so that i think we've done a pretty good job that's absolutely right from my point of view and i saw it. I was struck by just how much it looked like the joins and that i was wondering to what extent to you whilst your completing the work. How much do you have the joins present with you. How much do you refer to as you'll doing well when we were doing the final touches because the fabric came down on sunday september twelve and it came down in one day. We enrolled the fabric in monday day. And then we spend the next four five days to put the ropes. Make the ropes tighter. Make the connections and all these things and we have Very detailed technical plants that are on the ropes. And how everything goes but but the end you just. You still do locate the drawing just because that is the vision and then how it if really if it's like a role pass to go a little bit up or down it's always better to refer to the drawing because that's the artistic vision of technical bart so we looked at them constantly. It was something with it now. This is the very last of the wrapped buildings right so there were various other projects. Which were propo- you mentioned. Over the river early rome they were various other projects which existed during and other things but because christo started and got so far with it was appropriate to complete it right. It was his wish it was his wish for us to complete it. It was something that made me. Promise him that will do it. And also but this is the last project with the use of fabric but we also have another project which is the master before dhabi which is a permanent Sculpture in the desert which He also wished for us to finish. So we'll push on for dot one. We still don't have permission and all these things but there is definitely a future. And i think i'm feel very positive about it and i'm actually sure we'll build it. It's just a question whether it takes three five ten or fifteen years and patients we have so. It's something that i've learned from christmas over the years. So this is something that only the future world out and what about reconstructions. The blueprints exist for these extraordinary projects. Would you consider redoing anything that had been done in the past absolutely not. This was something that was very important to crystal god. They firmly believe that these projects are once in a lifetime and never again. It's something that they even. While they were still alive. It was offered to them constantly and they always refused because it is a once in a lifetime never again would be just a reproduction of something. That was specific to a place time. And it has this magic about it and So there's no need to recreate it again. And who was there was there to see it and experience it and for the rest of the people that didn't they're usually films and photographs and records and archives of it so in a way that also that once in a lifetime never again creates the rush for people to come and see the project for sixteen days that exists I mean you really have no idea how many people have called me in the last five days saying oh. I wasn't planning to come but now look at the pictures. And i'm changing my plans and we're coming and it creates the rush and And that is wonderful and it is part of the work of art. It's part of the life of the work of artists. Part of making this work are alive and especially with the use of fabric which makes move with the wind and the building is now alive. It's something that makes very special and And people really enjoy it and we want to preserve this in a way honesty. This kind of Pureness event by not reproducing. Them again and that was also christopher. Dodd swishes Much talking to me about it. Vacuum out to triomphe wrapped is on view until the third of october and access to the work is free. You can read more at cristo. Giancarlo dot net to hear an interview christo from our archive look for the episode published on the sixth of april. Twenty eighteen and hear a discussion on his legacy is the episode on the fifth of june twenty twenty. There's also a great picture story on the book club page of our website in which you can see behind the scenes shots of vladimir em cristo working on luxury triomphe wrapped and that's all for this episode subscribed to the newspaper and website. Click on the subscribe link at the top after the page. And you find your brain of subscriptions do subscribe to this podcast and a brush with and please give us a rating or if you if you've enjoyed it on twitter tan audio on facebook instagram. Of course we cannot is patrice by judy house. Cafe dawson david. David is entertainment sounders. Thanks to at daniela. Hathaway and to this week's guest jane. Mary thank you for listening to next week by the we cannot is sponsored. By christie's visit christie's come to find out more about the world's leading auction house in seventeen sixty six auction private sales online not anytime.
#4 introducing Lyfa - plastic free grocery startup
"Hello and welcome everyone to our next episode of help and trade podcast where we give space to enterpreneurs and there startups guesses Michael. I met Michael in climate zone. Which happened about two weeks ago organized by Basel impact up here in Basel? I'm really happy to have Mike. Lee has guest. His idea is really nice. I like it and I'm looking forward to discuss with Michael All these challenges and his current state of affairs. Michael is your S. Thank you for having me. My Name's Michael May. I`Ma Scottish engineer I'm moved to Basel around two years ago and relatively recently I started a project called. LIFA and Lee is an online store and deliver service to plastic free groceries while we're aiming to do is to provide people with a easy and convenient way to reduce the plastic. Waste now's start in Basel spread out across assist Linden and hopefully to feel neighboring countries. To great idea I must say so. Scottish engineer engineer. That's already something tell me. What was your path towards enterpreneurship public? Probably not so clear I think for me in my in my own my own head. It was very obvious. So that's kind of where I was going to end up in my own thing. I wasn't sure exactly how that would look. I'm a chemical depression-era. I studied chemical engineering in Edinburgh and I came to that because I was getting acid. Chemistry knows pretty much. The only reason to do that then I moved to Basel for a job and and the whole corporate companies situation didn't suit me so well. Yeah I mean I've always been looking for ideas to start a company but it's not as simple as that I find and when you you try and force an idea. It's never a good idea kind of way we did is myself. My Co founder. Louis re studied together as well and we had this thing where we would always come the ideas and then mafia other and then inevitably come up with ways reasons. Why wouldn't work so we do? Not for a number of years and then eventually when we had this idea there was no real reason why it wouldn't work so we can have pursued a little bit more nine. We're on the road map for maybe six months something. This idea came up borne of frustration. Genet pain or feeling ourselves trying to a good for the world in. It's not easy to be good often. Switch meant may not be easy if everyone else often it is the industry which pushes against the change. Yeah I mean and I think all all the time we were kind of waiting or consumers are waiting for kind of some big change from big companies or regulatory changes from from governments. Because that's the easiest way to do it yourself right now. You want to save plastic waste. It's difficult to go out of your way and make big changes to your lifestyle. You daily rhythm changes quite i. Often people are just waiting for coca-cola whatever to stop using plastic or whatever it is we kind of see the other side where we have an idea that could work. And we'LL TRY TO IMPLEMENT MATT on if people engage with the On hopefully that'll be a capitalist. I'll change other industries too are interesting what is behind the name of Alicia so live as fell. L. L. Y.. Fa It's basically we were creating a stocked up onto the Custodian Dopey name so too short for that name and then we will kind of looking at what is what is it in in because we're based in Basel and German speaking silly for service and then we just went from Lifa a kind of almost stockton just because we were are we just needed a name to refer to the project you know when we were talking to each other about it. I call with Mike with my girlfriend or whoever it was and it just made it easier for ourselves to have the name for the project. We didn't really expect for that long but it has not not so. Yeah that's the way it is great. I mean at some point of time. Rebranding always happens for sure for sure. I think that's the thing is we we kind of we were talking about changing it and MFL. Well what's the point because we're GONNA change it to something else which also hasn't gotten any real felt buying it because we're not. We're not marketing. Take branding experts at all. So we're just left of that for now and actually I quite like it. I think people do get one. One thing is anonymous. People get confused between Lifan lifer the Mattison Madison much worse. But we'll see maybe we'll run into something else hopefully not of not being forced to because we've damaged our own brand just because it's bad for the for the market that's hopefully We'll see in the future. I mean usually these necessarily Every company nevertheless mentioning your co founder. Louis Louis yet someone else on the team as well no at the moment there's was just the two of us Louis from Wales. He also studied chemical engineering. Hadn't with me and he moved here two months ago to help with this protest. We me Mike together on it for a while but he was basically. We are partnered over on the support program through the Startup Academy in Basel and also have coaching funding through industry. Swift number the experts and mentors. Who Take on advisory roles within team also partnered with Boston Have more experienced within the consumer facing side of the business. The advocate and again on an advisory rule but also help with some of the trials of a running but yeah in in terms of the team at the two of us we are. She trying to expand the team the moment into some areas which to engineers 'cause we con we're going to be hopefully expanding and building the team over the coming months match. What our current challenges? The main challenge I suppose was is like any startup is funding. And the reasons for that is because I mean as a as a consumer goods stocked up funding very important because we reminds to put out an MVP which basically did the basic principles of what we're trying to offer which people can drawn line we'll fill in pack containers acids delivered to the customer and then on the next delivery bring back any empty containers. So we did that. And we've had a few customers in but feedback customers and potential customers to these people who signed up on the website but then didn't end up ordering is that there's not enough products and taste expensive and the thing is we run. These trials based out of Boston. Pucks we offer the products that they have online 'em their prices so we can't really make any changes to that also. We don't offer all of their products because it's just not possible to to sell them both shopping online so we only offer kind of the main products like rice in Pasta and trump. Who thinks that yet to basically do what our customers want continued MVP The funding to be able to start that in to improve the the functionality of the website product range and things like that. So that's a main challenge of the moment is actually on the weekend at a Halloween party in someone they had had knew about us. When I was talking to someone about what we do? Someone said Ah a company already in Basel doing this and then it turned out that they were just talking but us and then she was saying that she was on the website she wanted order but it just wasn't enough stuff was vegetables when all these things so she didn't answer. We're kind of getting the case same feedback. There's nothing really against the principle of the whole. It's always about that kind of these kind of things that we aren't able to change the moon with adequate financing. You're going to get wider range of products which you can offer for yourself in the dependency on your suppliers will be cut off. Yeah exactly when we can physically. I mean the the shop doesn't track inventory. Meanwhile enough for us to be able to integrate with them and so we need that system within ourselves basing by having our own warehouse we can we can. We can react to to to demand when when you visit also demanded we can actually add that in ourselves and we can't do that at the moment bringing in things like vegetables fresh products as something. That's not so expanded in the in the PAC that something we can do do do more of anonymity to that as well. The fact is that would run profile of the revenue because it is just a trial assisted away of testing so we haven't got any margins on that mommy stopping bring in our own products we can actually start generating revenue than we were able to actually have a profit margin which will allow us to expand south More additional funds to play with you. See the moment Delivery we do. We'll lose some money and of course as well. You know the moment our backgrounds. It's on in the background from our side is very it was fight basic on which is fine because it's such a small scale but as it grows as well. We'll only takes Logistics capabilities to deal with that. So yeah we're going to do that by crowdfunding campaign pain which should be out in a couple of weeks von through November early December. Hopefully you've gotta thing prepared in time. And that's both a way of generating the the pre seed investment but also is a way of getting people on board so by by taking part in the founding of pain people will essentially become customers within a release that kind of waves slowly to to the public to take important quietly campaign. They'll be Sunday exclusively for the first couple of months. Each trial in rural Stepwise stepwise basis prior to hear things. I really have a plan of what you're doing. Well yeah maybe we're just GONNA pretending we have a plan and we talk about a plan. We've gotta we've gotTA written pretty well. I mean okay. I think we think the thing is that we could plan we we are. We spent a lot of time thinking about our strategy and how moving forward and what needs to happen along the way an. I'm glad I'm vicious with our strategy and targets on milestones and I think also we studied chemical engineering which is actually very different from most other engineering disciplines. Where are we spend a lotta time learning things? About mach an analysis economic analysis. I think can give us a natural affinity towards planning and validating what we're doing doing and so yeah. We don't have much experience in marketing. Communications in sales. Not GonNa thing but on a whole confident in what we're doing there so yeah I mean we. We're the problem solvers. We had a problem trying to come up with the best way to solve it in. Of course we we will need much larger investments in the future but of course we recognize that to get I get angels and border. VC's isn't the future. We're GONNA need to validate what we're doing too much higher level and so we had a crash running allows us to Of Real version of our product out there untested We get hundreds of customers irregularly that revalidate the business model invalidate the concept the whole or hoping that will be towards messes both from a financial returns point of view but also a fight. We are trying to do something. Good for the wild people. We'll have more natural affinity towards those kind of projects nowadays. What I see it as a risk from perspective just listening to I can totally see Chain of a supermarket will switch from one day to another and say from now on we do deliver as we do so far but we're switching to plastic free delivery. Would that go against your business model entirely. We obviously recognize that as a big threat. Thing is there's a couple of scenarios in that situation but I I suppose. Is that a big chain big supermarket chain. Yeah Yeah you're totally right. They they could see that it works and they can put in a hold of money and probably in a couple months. Do we'll be done in a couple of years but I think the issue that they will have his that especially She you know in the next say five ten years these supermarkets on going to change exclusively to plastic free products. That's not what happened will be the demand for that and they'll have the issue then of providing both plastic free product packaging products as well as providing things that Ha- have plastic in the more more wrapped in plastic packaging types as well on top of that and they're also selling perhaps both organic non organic products some products which which local but also products are shipped from far away in palm oil in the more or whatever it is and so the point is that we are able to deliver a service which exclusively good for the world is a very sustainable in in every aspect that we following were doing that even the deliveries doing it by by cancel At least attempting to end kind of sustainable theme in which this reminds me this won't be able to do especially at the start and whether that has enough to keep keep customers Fisher be enough to keep con customers onboard. But we'll have to see the others of course that the use that as an exit strategy that supermarket wants to decide so that's the direction they want to take. They went to the choir. What we've done in that time than that might might be something that will look into? I mean at the moment the thing is if it works. Then it's okay. I can live with that if it works. And then you know we get. We get pushed the market by bigger companies. And that's okay. Because Mitt essentially made the difference you know what we did encourage us a hold of big corporations dashiki something about plastic wason and that's also cool. Yeah okay maybe wouldn't make as much money habit but I can still talk enough the next sixty years or something can tell everyone how much how much impact I've made to the world. They were kind of worried about it too much right now. Perhaps that will deter investors in the future but for us this like. We have to validate what we're doing. Superman stand up copying than imitations is the best form of flattery. So move comes I really appreciate it. You think of your own business. Sort of like a torch lamb that you say like hey. This is the way we can go. I'll share pass anybody who follows. Of course he can run faster than I do but I was wondering into like the show. It's really nice and also sounds authentic and if you realize that there is danger market is developing businesses growing also outside of your own spirit of power or influence the and you can be taken over anyway if you realize that and you can't talk about it it makes your life easier for sure that I think it'd be it would be naive to to like really think that won't happen. You know very much. We'll be some competition I mean of because we would hope strategy that will aim for us to build a brand that can withstand whether we can. I don't know if you can invest onboard should have a good shot at doing that and building. The brand that that does kind would stand that. When Mount Allio little micro would ever decide that? That's the direction they want to take because it will happen you can see Awreddy in Germany Just over the border the Hiba supermarket. They've just create a whole wall of pocketing free stuff in a supermarket the market and you can see. I mean little bit with some stuff that they've they've not a supermarket chain who decided that there's value in having a whole I'll whole ball of their supermarket just offering classic free bringing on jaws the so it will happen that inevitably whether it's next year or ten years or something and maybe we can't survive ten years without without having customers on board but it will happen eventually and we're trying to test whether now is the time Hopefully it is amok analysis. Shows that it is but we'll have to wait and see honestly speaking. I hope you're not too late guys because the initiative hourly there is just beyond abortion is already happening My big question on that part is then if you do all these that you create business star you know eventually just run against a wall. Doesn't it take the air out of your own winks I. I don't mean that we're going gonNA run against what I think is that it will become in some way mainstream. Whether it's all solution the will be the supermarkets on all these change. He's will change to something that will be sustainable because it is what the market demand is. What if not that then? There'll be some regulatory control on that and there will be change and that is for sure gonNA come. That's not to say that that's GonNa stop us from doing what we're doing. We hope to develop a brand that can withstand that. Yeah it's motivated is the timing right. That's that's probably one of our biggest challenges is the densify whether now is the time for upped whether it's whether it's to the future for consumers are GonNa Really Want Service and whether they want to at all of course it does require some change in lifestyle you know you're still starting to order online. which for a lot of people is super easy to do because people do that anyway? We see changing in your lifestyle to order your food online than just getting it delivered to your house at some point. Whenever is good for you is probably easier than preparing your jaws in your containers before going shopping every time and not being able to spontaneously go shopping like you come to us but no for sure I think yeah Supermarkets will tend towards that. And we're not really worried by that because there's only so much we can do as she only we can do is just woken ourselves. The only way we can work on that I was wondering how do you plan to scale it up. We run a decentralized system and that allows us to operate in a way that we can deliver convenience much at degree in that by having a decentralized source as your warehouse in city we operate able to deliver very quickly so within a couple of hours of ordering we can deliver by by school or by an electric vehicle and then it's about opening a new warehouse spinning in products they're putting small infrastructure needs rolling has has both as more capital intensive than most tech startups online stopped up. But now she we're seeing that we're seeing a trend towards backing away from the kind of traditional stops been brought up in the net loss of ten years United Scooters everywhere whether it's essentially tax stocked up Assets relaxed shipping around to another buying into creating in in their cities in the in the form of kind of the same kind of principle where we move to city busy opened the website with the APP that make it available for the people in that sixty to order and then infrastructure we bring in is basically warehouse with good Can deal with owners. So I think it'd be relatively melted complex for us to scale. Do you think about Joining Forces waste for example. Some sort of delivery service. which is there or something like you mentioned scooter here? There is a company that does delivery scooters as their own business model. If you can just joined to force should we have looked into that I will. We've found. Is that on a on a small scale. It doesn't make sense on a meet. Mid scale it does allow scale it began doesn't it becomes more efficient to do in the main. The main issue with that is that if you want to have complete flexibility on when when people can deliver when they want their deliveries that becomes quite expensive subpoena specialist thing and you have to find a company that is able to do that but actually the main two main issues one them is that we operate a model where we deliver deliver on return so for US delivering food to customer and picking up containers and bringing them back to to Austin be used them throughout the easy but when you look to third party companies essentially to deliberate so you're paying for one to bring it from you to the customer and and bring whatever empty from a customer about to you at bite us dot then then again becomes expensive and that's something that would have to relate back onto the customer and that's something we ought to do much you're the point is is that the only time a customer sees someone is the delivery drivers it's only Human contact they have with us for us is quite important that the person who delivered to them is a guy who is representing company can can answer questions for you if you order. It's not just some delivery guy who's doing his job helped bring a box from a to B. It's more than that. You see that. In 'em I'm in Britain In Britain is quite common to do own deliveries for grocery shopping. When the when you order through TESCO than task ask Obama will arrive at your door Products from TESCO You know it's like that name. You know you have a kind of relationship. Almost supermarket that point we do actually have one on kind of active competitor called who base in the states now and they're doing some trials in France and in the UK the moment expanding until the places condon Japan some thanks so much. Bigger company bigger Investment top down approach with a lot of money to start it corporation between a couple of big companies. And what they do is they delivered by courier because they run a centralized system where they have let one warehouse. I think in or maybe maybe a couple in that S. one of the states so in in New York state for example and then it gets shipped up courier to the to your home and that means that this is just A. UPS Guy Adobe the package it just like any package would be and we don't like that kind of that feeling. We want to have the customer kind of having some relation to us directly. So doing it in house is kind of nicer for us. It delivers the message that we want to see that small challenge day when for example people order their product to be delivered in the peak times when they come back from the work for example Time between five to seven o'clock and evening Half of your customers wants to have an attack logistically speaking it does that is the challenge of. There's two things one. We will offer varying prices on delivery. So if you want to join a busy time you pay more want to doing Tiny pay last. Also if you want uh-huh by specific window so you want it within say between six PM and start 'em you pay more but if you find arriving between six PM and nine pm because you know you can the home anyway and you pay less than they were therefore we can kind of build it into a delivery strategy. The other thing is you'll see it now. Also this breach and things of that these deliberate companies and what they do run a mon- assistant where people paid per delivery and so that allows us to to operate in a way where we can bulk up our logistics skid during peak times to have more people working during the peak times and we need that. Both were delivery sideline also the packing site because when you getting a lot deliveries coming coming in need to cupid this time and of course a bathroom stuff to be hooked up for that. I was thinking of something similar to what you're mentioning but quite different way. For example have community like we like having in Basel Certain areas that population hop over that way would have necessarily corner shops individuals. Would sign up with the servicemen. Saying like you know what I can store store your deliveries for six hours a day. That's what pulse also with delivering packages. Sometimes maybe that could help. Yeah I think that is something. We'll look into them Vegetables delivery companies. That have these kind of drop off or pickup spots. Whatever they're called around the city and you can like pick up your thing that the only difference courses sources? It would work at the moment when you have to have when you start having dairy products or meat products that need to be refrigerated More complicated because you have to make sure that enter the breezes refrigerated whatever but for sure if somebody we look into we are also like the idea of Obama's in lockers. Where you you have like a series blockers built up a menu? You get sent a code when you deliberate So then it's not a safe Getting what you've ordered you know you type in your code the boss opens and you can take your bucks wchs but for sure those models were looking also will do click and collect service where you can order online and pick it up in Ottaway store because some people you know who who lived nearby Worker or don't mind walk just wanted to say the time in in terms of how long it takes touchy do the shopping. I want to save the money on the delivery fee then also for that but yeah I think this this kind of pick ups by something we we will look into get complicated again. These things that we will walk Arcand when customers demanded in the future goes back to the Funding thing when it was the the business up and running. We can start to look into this thing. I was just wondering how much can actually the adviser which invasion stat up academy asked him. How much can to help you with that? So given. He's the Armenta through that program and he. So here's A.. C. E. O.. Of One of the largest far manhole and healthcare wholesalers in Switzerland. And so there's not supposed to direct experience burns have in field field this definitely useful for them because you know to have someone like that because you can understand very quickly whether something's even feasible tall or not under Proven before you know call of different systems. Use that kind of thing. Unless pose as mentors rule isn't really is is more we can approach puts them with problems or with even with solutions and validated. By the suppose. It's not like having a logistics person in in the team kind of walking for us. It's not like that at home. Maybe as one of their complementary skills they would need not sure it will be for sure. I think as we scale though there will be things that will need to do to make to make ourselves self-sufficient Generate the profits of one. I mean they'll be a whole lot of stuff for example already talking about how. How can automate the filling filling packing process? So that achievable. We'll be very in the toll contact with natural employees because that will be when we can when we could fill prepare orders automatically through the website and Nazi collaborates can be done very very quickly much lower cost but of course you have no experience anything or low experience. There's lots of projects little side progesterone. Let's go start a list of things hang of even labeled at things for the future because I come up with the ideas but we're we're way too early to even still acting on them. I mean another thing for example like like these. Were we saying these kinds of pickup locations. One of the things we wanted to do that in a very similar thing actually like you were saying but instead of having a shop where people can pick it up from what whenever we will look to work with large offices in Basel for example Russia's Novartis Syngenta things that where we we would offer free delivery on a weekly delivery so the same time every week say Wednesday three. PM Guests delivered we would deliver to Novartis for for their employees and that means that all employees in not office building can order during the week. And then they'll know that it will always come to work at a certain time out to pay for any delivery fees. It's cheaper for them. It's easy for us because we're delivering multiple Odessa. One place and it means that even if you're not living in the city and you wouldn't normally be able to do the delivery or you're living in France Germany wherever it this. Your food comes to work in. It's kind of easy for you to drive home so that kind of thing that we want to strike up it. It means that we have automatic access to a lot of people quickly and in a much easier way to deliver to them but they also will have an easy way to see the products. And you're seeing that Nevada's example before there from what I've heard this. They've stopped to some kind of strategy within their office to reduce wastes to reduce there. Waste to the restaurant or whatever it is so it's Kinda theme that these companies are looking for until we're hoping to capitalize on that all the systems which you mentioned or possibilities you can go. I would say this one is for me the most attractive one. Yeah Fisher and it's simple you can set it up tomorrow. Yeah exactly you don't know for sure. The contacts tax. We need to probably prove concept. They want some trust that they want some feedback in and be able to test the service himself. I mean also possibilities to partner with I mean do compete to be modal restaurants. Cafes and things like that office buildings to pip to supply them with coffee or whatever it is they need on a rolling basis zero as we already taught I was were the impact of two weeks ago. 'em Top with one of the founders there and he was talking about what is it. What could we offer in the future to them as an actual as them being customer Estima is? They're trying to run a zero waste Kathy on whether they can get where they can go through one one place you know you have to set up a supply chain to one place can order coffee. They can order flower. They want to make baked. They could baked goods that can or the milk butter. Whatever it is you need from one place? And they don't ask you have to do any of that kind of organization of this kind of stuff. Not for them is quite attractive. So that's also things will look to the future to to capitalize on that. I'm sure they'll be restaurants and cafes who will want to advertise the Michael have to say thank you very much for being here. We're unfortunate running out of time already and I was thinking the stylish minutes is quite long but it's not actually because we've been talking to. I'm really confident that you know business plan. Just because I see a using in front of me the way you talk about it besides being passionate not necessarily our listeners can see but yesterday but also have the feet on the ground very important your the business model is partially proven already which is also a good hint yet have to be critical about certain aspects like for example doing the real team those real risks of the competition taken over. How hard is it for them? How soon could it be that? You're out of the game for example Orsha stuff like that you think about it and it's important and surrounding yourself with the right the people for you Essential aspect absolutely. Yeah I'm crossing fingers. Thank you pleasure. Having much for being what can people contact you so You can go now. Websites lead up to or through INSTAGRAM facebook H Owen and you can see website to find email addresses essence of that. You can contact us. We're always looking for any input or feedback suggestions or whatever. It is also great just to have any kind of allegation. Someone unfolded having more followers on. Instagram always helps. And like I said before we're GONNA do crowdfunding campaign soon so getting people involved in able to spend the that is always great. I'll make sure to links on the book. Thank you our Michael once again. Thank you very much for being here to as I said crossing fingers in I'll see on future events happening happening here shuttle and so our listeners. Thank you for tuning in. And we'll see John in an expert cast by by and have a great day.
"You are listening to benjamin workers of everything because he wasn't satisfied with what was out there on the market bayard winthrop. Ceo and founder of american giant was determined and committed to make the greatest t-shirt ever american giants best-selling premium slug tease. Iconic silhouette is made the right way with quality. Care right here. In the usa made in los angeles california with one hundred percent american grown continent. They spent over a year obsessing over the fabric and tested several variations until they found the perfect one. There slump fabric holds color incredibly while the rich very texture gives it a unique look that holds its shape after wash and wear style it with anything and look polished ready for any occasion. Get your new favourite tease at american dash giant dot com today and use promo code theory for fifteen percent off your first order. That's fifteen percent off when you use code theory at american dash giant dot com. It's summer again. At least where. I lived and that means basking in the hot sunny days and tossing and turning through the long hot nights enter brooklyn their crisp sheets. That breathe to keep you cool man. You can say goodbye to sleepless summer nights. But don't let yourself to sheets brooklyn offers. Many other domestic staples like plush absorbent towels cozy robes and comfy lounge. Where you'll want to put on and never take off in our house. Our brooklyn and sheets are both human and feline approved. Flower can now be found most days napping on our bed. lucky cat so give yourself the comfort refreshed. You deserve and get it for less at brooklyn go brooklyn dot com and use promo code radio topi. Ah to get twenty dollars off with a minimum purchase of one hundred dollars. That's b. r. o. o. k. l. i n. e. n. dot com and enter promo code radio tovia for twenty dollars off with a minimum purchase of one hundred dollars. That's brooklyn in dot com. Promo code radio tovia. Okay dear listener quick favor. We are conducting our annual radio topiary listener survey. And we'd be really grateful if you could just take a few minutes to fill out the questionnaire. Please visit survey dot dot org slash theory to tell us what you think of the show and help us learn a little bit more about you. You can also answer questions about all the other radio topiary. Podcast that you listen to and it will really help us out that survey dr peter x dot org slash theory. Thank you this. Instrument called performance piece a couple of weeks ago. I was walking in soho. When i came across a commotion here. The law police were wrestling a man and paint splattered black clothing out side of what looked like an art gallery with two other guys. Also dressed in black were standing on the sidewalk filming the whole ripped what's going on. That's the george burgess gallery. One of the guys would call. They're selling hundred biden's paintings the second guy at it and so our buddy wrote daddy war-crimes on because under bind years helping the money. That's why daddy war-crimes word our buddies kinda famous. The first guy said what's his name. i asked rod. Webber doesn't ring a bell. I replied as the cops tossed rod webber into their police car. Well he also goes by the name epstein. Didn't kill himself. I guess. I do know that guy art basel miami december twenty nineteen the last time. The world's ultra rich and powerful gathered together in person before coverted. Shut everything down rod webber mr epstein didn't kill himself. He was their art basel. Miami is the most important in most prestigious art fair in the world. This is the fair that keeps most of the big name artists and galleries in business. Every december the wealthy the super wealthy and the insanely wealthy descend upon the miami convention center to shop for art the dealers at art basel miami call opening night the running of the billionaires every december billionaires runamuck on the floor of the miami convention center competing with each other to buy the most expensive in talked about art pieces for sale. We just can't seem to peel are is away in two thousand nineteen. There was only one piece of the matter. is art. A banana many believed this war. Appealing pre banana duct taped to a wall represents the art-world in its gaping wealth inequality others advised not to think that deep as mocking the art world. But what marines do catalan does marzio catalan. The artist called his banana duct tape to the wall. Comedian and it sold on opening night. Actually periton catalans gallery sold three editions and two artist. Proofs of comedian on opening night to of the editions and the artist's proofs sold within minutes for one hundred and twenty thousand dollars each so periton of the price of the remaining edition that one sold a few minutes later for one hundred fifty thousand dollars news of the banana and it sale. Price spread like wildfire. The following day the periton booth was mobbed with mona lisa sized crowds who came to instagram and tick-tock the banana around two o'clock a man took the banana down from the wall peeled it and put it in his mouth vesting good. This too was instagram and to talk. Hungry david tuna. The banana eater said the comedian called out to him to respond. Always art art is about the question mark. He later ahead with my performance. I put my question. Mark after catalans question mark. This is how artists talk with each other. We talk by art. This was his art and this was my performance. This was not vandalism. Insisted author deal technically. This was true. The periton gallery wasn't selling a banana duct tape to a wall but rather the concept of a banana duct tape to a wall. The physical material involved was a certificate of authenticity and a fourteen page instruction booklet that explained how to install and maintain the comedian. According to the instructions the banana was to be replaced every seven to ten days and it was to be duct tape to the wall. One hundred and seventy five centimetres off the ground in the end. The gallery decided not to press charges against david the tuna but they didn't duct tape another banana to the wall either the following morning. They explained their decision on instagram. Apologies to everyone. Who will not be able to participate in comedian. They wrote the crowds are just too big. And they are endangering the other works of art in the vicinity but all day sunday december eighth part and booth was once again mobbed with crowds of people who came to instagram. And dicta the banana list wall. This is win rod. Webber showed up and using red lipstick smeared on his face. He wrote epstein. Didn't kill himself on the blank wall. This too was photographed. Instagram wiped twenty nineteen epstein. Didn't kill himself had become a rallying cry for conspiracy theorists of all political persuasions and honors anarchists socialists. Proud boys all got behind this name because they all believe that our world is run by elites that can kill a man even if he's locked up and a federal jail it's unclear if rod webber personally believed epstein. Didn't kill himself but he most certainly believed in the mean the month before art basel miami. He went to new hampshire. And he tried to get on the presidential primary ballot as rod epstein didn't kill himself weber. My name is epstein. Didn't kill himself weber. Rod webber is also a performance artist and. He insisted that he'd come to the periton booth at another question mark to the question. Mark that david the tuna had added to cadillacs. Work the day before set precedent here. Oh it's not are. You didn't press charges on this time. Security vacation I doubt it were you tennis. Cure broad epstein didn't kill himself webber spent the night in jail back in twenty nineteen. I was totally fascinated with this story. I downloaded all the instagram post. And tick tock videos. I could find. I read all the interviews with both david ituna. And broad epstein didn't kill himself weber. The banana affair seemed like the perfect framing for an episode on performance art. But then well. I got distracted over the holidays. Another story caught my attention. Some virus bubbling up in china. I don't think. I gave the banana another thought until a couple of weeks ago when i found myself standing across the street from mr epstein didn't kill himself himself. I stood there deep in contemplation as the police car drove away rod epstein didn't kill himself weber's buddies chased after it and then someone else who'd also witnessed this confrontation rolled up. It was an older man pushing a shopping cart. You all got the wrong gallery. He said who me i snapped. I'm not with those guys. While then they got the wrong gallery. Sure the sign says gee bee he said pointing at the georgia's burgess gallery sign but the george bush shou. That's in another gallery down the street. What i asked. George bush show george. Bush is going to present his new paintings for the twentieth anniversary of september. Eleventh in the spot where the vilbert kin luxury swimwear shop used to be. Come on. I said laughing. Then he pulled out a sheaf of papers from his shopping cart and handed it to me. The cover page was marked top secret and it had the gold presidential seal of george w bush on it. I flipped through the pages. It was an exhibition checklist. Six to seven pages of kyw res- medium-sized thumbnails of oil paintings. I recognize bush's clunky figuring and drab palate but not the subject matter. These images were explosive. Death destruction sadness loss fear and terror. George bush made these. I asked look. He said pointing to the image of george bush standing on a pile of rubble holding a bullhorn underneath was the title self portrait. As god's messenger many of the images contained scenes of unspeakable violence and gore one was titled flight ninety three. It depicted the inside of an airplane. A few passengers console the woman holding a decapitated child in the aisle. Another group of passengers stood ready to march on onto dark. Skinned men armed with knives standing guard in front of the cockpit. Where did you get this. I stammered in disbelief from the trash outside the empty vilbert store. Someone must have thrown out by accident. But i've been watching the place and they are definitely turning it into an art gallery. They keep hauling in all these packages painting sized packages. Okay but how do you know. They're bringing in these paintings i asked. He jabbed his finger on one of the thumbnails. I saw this one. It wasn't wrapped up. The canvas was shaped like an eyeball. It was an image of the twin towers. Collapsing onto a crowd of firemen policemen and civilians decked out in business attire. The title was the evil eye of mullah omar. I saw this one. I saw them. Bring this one inside when i asked this morning. I flipped back to the front page document. There were a number of contact emails and phone numbers. Can i buy this from you. I asked sure a hundred dollars. He replied his shopping cart with filled with swimwear and chopsticks boxes and boxes of chopsticks. Okay i said wait here. I just need to go to the atm. I ran across the street into the bodega. I took one hundred dollars out of the atm. But when i came out the man was gone there was no trace of him or his shopping cart. I walked down west broadway to wear. The vilbert can store used to be. The windows were covered with brown paper an ancient advertisements for luxury speed house. Then i knocked on the door. No one answered. I stood around for an hour unsure of what to do hoping the man with a shopping cart would return but he never did. And so i went home on nine eleven. I was sleeping when my girlfriend phone to tell me a plane had just hit one of the world trade towers. I went back to sleep but she phoned again. A few minutes later and said another plane just hit the other tower. I got out of bed and turn on the radio. The only thing anyone seemed to know for sure was the planes had both departed from boston. Perhaps i thought it was a group of crazy red sox fans i know that sounds absurd but back then i lived in boston and bostonians were always talking about how much they wanted to kill the yankees back then. I knew as much about baseball rivalry as i knew about terrorism and al qaeda after a while my friend chris came over and we went downstairs to the people's republic. The bartender turned the tv on for us but he didn't seem to care much about what was going on. I believe we spent the entire day in that bar watching the towers fall again and again when i woke up on wednesday i decided to document this historic moment. I had a radio show at the time. It was called your radio night light and over the next few days i tried to capture the fear the paranoia and the craziness for my show the following sunday. I even took a trip to boston's logan airport to investigate my theory about the red sox fans but the security guards refused to let me into the terminal in the end i secretly recorded my conversations with a number of my friends in order to get their true feelings about nine eleven. I called the episode hijacked. I'd never done that before. I've never done it again. My friend. Tim didn't speak to me for over a year for me. Nine eleven was much more than a rude awakening. Nine eleven opened up. My eyes and forever changed how i saw my country. Its history and its future and after nine eleven. It was easy to see that. George bush was dead set on refreshing the american tree of cruelty. He launched two wars. He ordered american soldiers to torture an enemy combatants to be locked up forever without due process. George bush gave vast new powers to america's spies and corporations thanks to george bush. Americans lost their rights to privacy and their labor protections and the american people were totally on board with all this cruelty. We cheered on the wars. The patriot act the compassionate conservatism. The transformation of employees into independent contractors but most of all we cheered for the enhanced interrogation cz. I'm still convinced that without the abu. Ghraib photos of american soldiers torturing their prisoners. george. Bush would've lost his reelection bid in two thousand four but he won. He won big george. Bush soundly defeated the reality based community. It's so much easier to talk about this today. Thanks to donald trump. Millions of americans now intuitively fiscally understand that america has become an always is the cruelty based community but in the aftermath of nine eleven. This truth was much harder to communicate. George bush also us nine eleven to weaponize patriotism so all criticism was anti-american traitorous. Even the rejection of techno optimism was blasphemy. The bush years were extremely extremely difficult for me. This is why i took a pilgrimage. To the inauguration of barack obama in two thousand nine i went not to watch the swearing in but rather the swearing out. I'll never forget standing there in the crowd in the freezing cold screaming with joy as bush's helicopter sword off into the distance ever since that day. I've been harboring a delusion a delusion that george bush would one day be held accountable for his crimes and when it was announced that the. Us is exit from afghanistan would coincide with the twentieth anniversary of nine eleven. My delusions intensified but the coverage of the afghan pullout brought me back to my senses. Many of the reports never even mentioned george bush. At first i imagined him driving around on his texas ranch shooting rifles up into the air whooping triumphantly. He did it. He escaped the judgment of history. Surely bush was as static. But then a week ago i was staking out the former vilson luxury. Swimwear store watching men in black hauling large canvas sized packages into the space. I realized i was wrong. George bush is a heartless and petty man. He's incapable of seeing his erasure from the story of america's disastrous two trillion twenty year misadventure in afghanistan as a blessing or a gift for george bush. This deletion is the ultimate insult. Why else would he choose to mount a show of his nine eleven paintings and a pop up gallery near ground zero. He's angry that we no longer remember his cruelty. He wants to make sure we never forget again. No boo Hacker who. I tipped the world off to george bush's artistic ambitions in february. Twenty thirteen marcella. Hell the original goose offer hacked into george bush's sister dorothy. Aol account he discovered an email from the former president with thirteen image attachments. George bush with proudly showing off his first paintings with his extended family. Guth offer in turn share these paintings with the world. Mean girl bloggers and muckraking. Critics had a field day. Bush's renderings of dogs and cats were roundly mocked. If this had never happened george. Bush most certainly would move on to another post-presidential hoppy crochet skeet shooting but the cruel ridicule motivated him to stick with it. He hired a slew of art instructors and hunker down in his studio. There's a rembrandt trapped in this body. Your job is deliberate him. Bush shouted at gale norfleet one of his first teachers. It was cedric huckabee. Another early instructor. Who came up with the idea for bush's first big series portraits of wounded warriors. Portrait's of wounded former soldiers. Bush had met during mountain bike rides and open golf outings organized by the bush institute in two thousand seventeen bush debuted portrait of courage traveling art exhibit and book containing sixty six oil portraits and a four panel mural four years after the hacking george. Bush dared the world to laugh at him again. Portrait of courage got tons of press coverage but serious art. Critics barely glanced at the paintings. Bush was miffed. No one seemed to notice the most courageous and most wounded warrior at the center of his whole thing for his next project. George bush decided to up the stakes. He decided to go for woke. He decided to paint immigrants. He spent three years painting forty-three portraits of famous and ordinary people who had all immigrated to america again. He organized a traveling art exhibit and a book called out of many one bush's plans for the exhibition and the book release. Were totally up ended. By the corona virus there were no parties and no gala dinners like many artists. George bush was heartbroken that is new work had to compete for attention with a global pandemic. That was killing hundreds of thousands of americans with no end in sight. He invited a number of prestigious art critics to visit his studio so we could show off his paintings and talk about them but once again. The critics didn't engage the only bookings he got. Were for network tv. The morning shows and the weekend morning shows and the video for cbs. Sunday morning. you can see that. George bush's unhappy. You can totally see that. He's frustrated and confused as to why his woke posturing isn't resonating the portraits. That you have done are beautiful. Iq but how does it change policy. It doesn't but it's it's a part of hopefully creating a better understanding about The role of immigrants in our society mine is just a small voice in what i hope is a chorus of people saying Let's see if we can't solve the problem but there was something in that. Cbs sunday morning interview that resonated with me in the studio tucked in the corner behind a giant portrait of a man of indeterminate ethnicity. I saw the corner of another canvas. A distinctly rounded corner the corner of an eyeball shaped canvas. When news of david tunas art basel. Miami art performance broke a number of critics suspected that the stunt had been coordinated. This wasn't true. The two men didn't even know each other. But it's understandable why this interpretation spread marite. Co catalan duct. Tape a banana to a wall and david tuna took it down and aided the tunes performance expanded the aesthetic aura of comedian. It brought more attention and more value to the work of art in the future when museums like the guggenheim who now own. One of the additions displays comedian. Bill need to employ multiple security guards to ensure. No one else eats their precious banana now. Even though the wall rod epstein didn't kill himself weber attacked was banana lists his lipstick. Traces were still a threat to the artworks aesthetic or a broad epstein didn't kill himself weber's performance threatened to connect the comedian with a course and nasty mean rod epstein. Didn't kill himself. Weber's performance threatened to devalue the very concept of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars duck tape to a wall. But in order to truly understand why rod epstein didn't kill himself weber. Went to jail while david tuna did not well dear listener. We must reexamine these two performance pieces. We must take a closer look. Rod epstein didn't kill himself weber accused art basel miami of having him arrested because they rejected the political message of art. This is true. Even if rod epstein didn't kill himself weber had scribbled the lyrics to the famous louis prima song. Yes we have no bananas. Today on the periton wall. He still would have spent the night in prison. Broad epstein didn't kill himself weber went to jail because his presentation. When you watch the video of david the tuna eating the banana. The first thing you notice is how calm he is. There are no sudden movements. He doesn't even speak with his mouth full. He looks like an art professor. That kind of art professor who guest lectures at top tier universities and design schools. But when you watch the video of rob epstein didn't kill himself weber writing epstein didn't kill himself on the blank warsaw. The first thing you notice is the red lipstick smeared all over his face in his hands. He moves with jerky gait of a dangerous person. He looks like the kind of guy who asked you for spare change. And then be rate you for having a flat ass when you say sorry man. I don't have any cash. But the most problematic aspect of rod epstein didn't kill himself weber's presentation is the beard. He's got one of those thick scraggly pubic hair style. Beard sprouting from his in the red lipstick makes it look totally revolting art. Basil miami had no choice but to haul him away. The twentieth anniversary of nine eleven was fast approaching. It was time for me to act. I had to destroy george bush's paintings before he unveiled them to the world and i had to destroy their auras. As well disposing of the paintings would be easy on ebay. I found this and tc clowns seltzer bottle and i filled it with a bright red viscous ink. I would hose those paintings down and bleed them to death dealing with the auras. Who's going to be more difficult. This is why. I decided to storm the pop up art gallery. Dressed as rod epstein didn't kill himself weber on amazon. I bought a black t. Shirt a black baseball cap and a black sanitary mask. All emblazoned with the phrase epstein didn't kill himself i made my very own pubic hair beard and attached it to the inside of my epstein. Didn't kill himself mask. Thanks to co vid. I had confidence that. I could pull this disguise off. I also constructed a performance cam using a chiropractic neckbrace and a selfie stick. I built a holster for my phone. I was able to set the angle just right. Many beard would feature prominently in every shot. Not even the concept of george bush's nine eleven paintings could survive my performance on tuesday september seventeenth. I put on my costume and took a cab to the former vilbert. In-store in soho. The windows were still taped up. But this time the was slightly ajar. I took out. My clown seltzer bottle adjusted my fake beard and mask. Yangzte opened the door and ran inside. It was a pop up bras. Bussiers balconies hung from the ceiling for sale mirrors of all shapes and sizes covered the walls they even had an eyeball shaped mir fuck me. I shouted a saleswoman wearing a busty. Corset mistook my fuck. Me is an outburst directed at her and she started screaming for help. No no no. Don't scream. I cried pulling down my mask. This is performance art. But then my beard. My pubic hair beard came loose. The saleswoman climbed up onto her desk. She was shrieking now pointing at the fake beard on the floor. Totally hysteric douse. The fake beard with the clown seltzer gone on the saleswoman fainted. I caught her just before. She tumbled into the giant puddle of red ink. Then the well-dressed couple came in from the street. What's going on here. What happened to the vilbert can store. They closed i replied as i ease the saleswoman into chair. This is a performance art space. Now the couple and walked out. I was right behind him. And as i raced down west broadway shedding my epstein didn't kill himself mask and hat and t shirt. I could hear in the distance. The distinct sound of the shopping cart and laughter. You have been listening to benjamin walkers theory of everything. This installment is called performance piece. This episode was written and produced by me. Benjamin walker special things to andrew calloway and matilda via the theory of everything proud. Founding member of radio topa home to some of the world's best podcast find them all at radio topi a- dot fm radio to.
Faith That Works Day 4
"Welcome this is lucy painter with your daily insight and this much is dedicated to fate. In this week we have a guest minister. Josep borrell he will be taking us through any of faith that sit back. Relax listen a month. As he shares about faith that wax well a welcome to episode four of fade that works and our points today is that fade towards is always hopeful. What is hope. Hope is a feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen hope. Is that the thing inside inside. You and that in season despite all evidence to the contrary that sounding better waiters if we have the courage to reach for it to what for eight and fight for it so today we meet a man in the bible who had everything the bible testify about him. We are told that he was a blameless man he was operate he feared god his shunned evil or imagine such good quantities of a main. You would think he never had any issue of life. Sometimes we associate suffering to see but you find a man today here in the bible who was not prey to main yet. He went through a lot of suffering. We were told that he was very rich. He had seven sons yet three daughters. He owned seven thousand. Three thousand komo's five hundred oxen and the five hundred donkeys and so many other things unfortunately he lost everything but he kept his feet. I've seen people who lose the job. Lose your fade out. Said people lose the marriage and lose the fade. I've seen people lose well. And they lose the the fading in god but this man he kept he's fade. Job did not hide his desk and anguish but he's trials never crushed his all his feet. These man was very open. He did not pretend like everything was going well but he kept his faith in the mid east of his deepest ogoni job expressed tarnishing words of hope. He said in the book of job. Nineteen invest twenty five to twenty seven. He said i know that my redeemer leaves and not in the end he will turn upon the and after my kin husband destroyed yet in my flesh i would see god i myself will see him with my own eyes. I am not another how my heart yearns within me so these men called the job after going through such great he expressed words and say that he no. He's redeemer leaves. Sometimes we see like god has forsaken as after going through small issues of life. But i see a man here who slave looked like everything was going wrong. His friends who came to even to to encourage him. You know why did not stand on his side. They thought he had done something bad. And that's why hotel was happening was happening yet. He was still hopeful that the guard had something good in store for him remember. Even his wife was not tending with him. If anything he taught him to god and die my in your own wife telling you telling you to die to cast. Gordon i yet. These man was too hopeful that god will still turn things around. He kept his faith to the end. Bible say that he said in another version said even navy slay me yet out still believing him. He was so much ready to stand with his faith. Faith that works always is always hopeful. Don't lose it hold your faith and be hopeful and at the end of it all you will give testimony. God bless you see you tomorrow for another episode of faith that works. I'm bring these on behalf of basel. Lucy painter thank you.
The Platform for Progress Movement Reaches Out to the Youth of Bosnia and Herzegovina
"And went to Tucson northeast part of Dan to one zero one only five largest cities in Bosnia And the what happened was that I had the presentation in the high school. Debts focused on electrical engineering computer. Science Joins Mechanical Engineering I talked about new advanced technologies like ai or machine learning data size big data complex systems. Whatever it was really interesting? We had about twenty thirty students about twenty eighty twenty professors teachers and it was about an hour long hour fifteen minutes. This'll take as long as you want to buy that evening I had A. I had a flight to Basel Switzerland from Tuesday so I only had about forty findings but stayed about our fifteen minutes. It was beautiful. It was wonderful wonderful. They professors here a sort of rigid. I mean there are obviously those that are trying to do something different. And that's not my style and So we had a lot of We had a lot of questions knowing that on ask questions or maybe perhaps apps they are not encouraged but the vista invaded. Ask many many questions that I had to stop because because they had to leave then we all took. It was hot outside and because the building was next to the St. How would you windows? You hear the noises from the street so they closed all the windows then made it much warmer and and they had to take off their the Jack. The didn't have a tie. Luckily a roll up sleeves but nobody left over. They'll be. They had a a good excuse to leave. Because hey it's hot it's Bigham barrel but they didn't state that was cool. Then at their requests the old took a picture outside all hundred plus a loss outside and that that's probably going to table one of my favorite pictures The principal of the school told me was he thought he was wonderful and it was so glad that they had so many. Crashes and it was primarily the fourth grade students and selected selected students from research. Very good questions nice curses appropriate meaningful Talked about their relationship with technology in dermatology and life and Youth in life youth in the country and on those. Thanks to unpack then. We ended up going into our facilities because they opened the platform for Offices in tools line the quick cluj they took us to the airport to Basel simply because it was Had they did the what they came up with was a festival filled and music festival and then invited me in addition to that for the platform for progress August. We still recognized that from five PM on Saturday Friday. PM to almost one am Saturday morning. So we'd flying. In Friday of June we spent a lot of hours talking to people who came for the festival from other cities to host the a host people who were hosting us it was really held. went to bed almost three got up early to start to have nice meetings had invented a nice long event lawn of activities singers lingers dancers even the fashion exhibit recitals. It was along loggins. I about thirty minutes to talk ended up being our because people had a lot of pressures and since then the Monday morning had the power hour and fifteen minute conversation on the radio open net for cranial. The people had a chance to ask questions. It's a lot of coalition Tuesday in preparation for the annual assembly inviolable abysses. This is now becoming a really big event for still by Luke but luke is on inside. Am because some God. That is a message. We has to be special truly has to be wonderful We are now assembler. The assembled a team of twenty people in various areas to start planning process A lot of anxiety because the realizing missing that we are two weeks behind once we came up with the plan realized that two weeks behind so many activities that need to happen. Anyway it's wonderful. It's hectic it's chaotic Beautiful at the same time because lot feed like a clearly defined I challenge can focus you and start adrenaline rushing means people creativity to start flowing. Everybody pitching in understanding what they could share. That's I love this period and I know it's going to be tough will yesterday Went to Mazda. Stadium All star there is a Green designed conference started his array of now at every other year now in Mostar The Lady League Brosnan Lady who lives in the Netherlands and is a professor at Wannabe universities. Organizing this conference that Liu said the way to build buildings in cities sustainable way and I was asked to be one of the four keynotes the opening day in obviously my my role was not on the designer or on the architecture side but it was on systems thinking simulation modeling computer of processes that can lead sustainable cities today so pro have a meeting of the CEO. Our board meets every every Thursday from nine to eleven pm. Eight ords due to make sure that all the preparations for the annual assembly by cut down in the appropriate way on the lot of Mid People nine Designed level and elements for the assembly. The big event. That's happening thank for us. It's coming up. It sat on Saturday regularly to lost again. Most automated Initial assembly for the city of Mostar and the whole region agent and That has to be interesting because it's the most diets it's a just like locate it because it's a tropical troublespot. There's so many people from other cities would like to go there just to show their support from Sarajevo. There's a bus thus saith exceeds people who go there just to from other sites of parts of Bosnia they rented in the beautiful hotel there ear facilities for organising conferences. And so it's GONNA it'll be room that holds. Maybe hundred fifty seventy five people will see but it's a beautifully appointed him though. I think it is going to be a perfect setting for I something like this. It's GonNa be cool so that is is going to be Saturday or Sunday. Green game to the other side of us near where there is a panel on education. High University awesome low low at Yale University level education. A lot of interest for that we will talk about the comparison. Comparative Analysis of Education's of south of university education in Bosnia Europe. The United States. So we'll see any goes from there. Anyway it gives going of course it done. You're busy man. Dan You got some things going on lots of things going regarding your visit to choose land talking to the IT students. And I'm sure there it will be people that will ask. Why is it important to reach out to that age? Group is well with what you're doing in here. What they have to stay right? There is no reason why first grade second grade and I think that what's that simply because we left that to the principal to decide didn't WanNa tell them what to do and perhaps it was his belly that these people had more of education into analogy. That could follow. Oh A discussion of advanced technologies. An with. Perhaps maybe because limited seating perhaps they would benefit the most at this point from the discussion about higher heightened on just the way I talk about it is where is simple enough that I believe anybody can at least attempt to understand so if I were the one deciding I would offer to bring in representatives from all four grades seemed because I I can manage I I think I can explain things. The level appropriate for first second third grade level of highschool. Buy these kids who were really really really really impressive in to some questions they ops the follow walk questions. This far sparkling sparkling ice the way they are this filth he he answers it was really a Was I was impressed with With kids there so I have. It would be good for our future. What kind of questions were they asking? for example One of the had to do with the role of AI in the future of the world Should we be worried for you. Not Be worried worry because some scientists in the United States business people ill. Musk have come out against the widespread use of AI Other questions regarding the Some even concrete questions about too deep. the imploding or newell that for us Their shortcomings in their the advantages There was one question that specifically asked about the advancement team the circuit design only early engineering side. The material side. What I thought about specific technologies are being in sports today There were questions about a career. The young people careers What would I advise them to do? Which area so technology or non technology would I find useful or helpful for them? There were questions about the what would be the best for Bosnia to invest in. How would I organize for change education in Bosnia that was going being back and forth so it was mostly about Specific than there are some questions about the implications itself than orgy in Bosnia. There was no extra politics at all. They didn't get it. debuted Indian appeared to reach out of the only two models wonderful. They were simply trying to understand new technologies popping big up their relationship with the world as we know where if ever her would be when reedy as human race be able to work together Awesome so but the the symbiosis of Hinson Technology where I thought that we talked about ethics a lot and that was actually add fix as in Codex bio technology law. That he's catching up with. The best is technology and the use of dental on privacy privacy and it was interesting and can I presume that by planning these seeds at that age looking down the road that Perkins now use this knowledge that they have and remain in the country to make Bosnia better than leaving in taking this knowledge elsewhere. Or is it consent to young or miliatry next year they can take the volt so I I think they are just the right age to start thinking about these issues of ends. If they was finished some of them will actually not even go go to college and will simply take off to. Germany tried to find a job there so I think this was a prime age for kids who who are at the crossroads some very important decisions in their lives to stay okay to go to work or to go to college and they have options events as it was very important for arrest. Talk at this stage. They're like I mentioned to them that that we will look like served served elephant who David alike simply courage them to engage you in at the young age engaged in changes in the eventually and if they can vote for whoever they want for but just not to let others decide their future. The weather that resonated at all I don't know but I know that the die lert through their questions and then fog question Salat understood I understand now that generation little better and what is the age. Have the the group that you'd want what they're calm so this was sixteen seventeen. Okay then looking at your trip to Switzerland I'm just using it as an example of your most recent. Where you're you're they're dealing with? The platform has officially been organized within another country. And if you go and speak in listen are you getting the sense that the Astra are getting getting those that are involved now that not only be involved in the country. They're in but to also become more involved with Bosnia and Herzegovina solely Christie interesting The are getting more engaged. There's more talk about the country country and in the political sense. What needs to happen if they have any old to played On the one hand there's a greater level of understanding of the processes in the country and assuming responsibility tweets leased in small part for it On the either there are a lot of divisions among Bosnians insufficient which is really characteristic. Oh Bob we like to fight with each. We like to disagree. Then it's not an Americans thought of this agreement where you do you agree to disagree the still friends you go home and it's fine. You Play Golf. No this agreement here. It means I don't talk to you. I leave the meeting. You cannot do anything. Oh I'm done with you so it's a it's a destructive and we lost some really cool people would people who I know Kim contributes by. They'd hey get easily upset by somebody statement or By somebody's actions that they did that becomes more important to the cause itself which is something that I don't understand. You may disagree with the person but that doesn't that shouldn't take take it from the cost that the old fighting for office in Brazil. I'm done with it. If that person's Year I've been on being here and ends so that is one of the one of the big issues should bosnia-herzegovina people of exclusive. It's either my way or highway. Anyway I know the Best Syndrome. Can't you see that I know the best and so there's go Go really too far so I read for us or are we are getting via Johnny together. The are introducing more processes affording data. We did not think of establishing nonprofit organizations that attitudes would be associated with the platform for progress but the people from Sweden said literally so we just have an end in an organized group of citizens supporting platform for perkins events feeding through tell Sweden as a country. It'd be a year and we are politically. Engaged BECO- nutty you. That and it's good. That covered knows that it's happening. It's fine because then then they also support the financial CEO performing a good city duty longview. Here's the body for students so he can act that was actually It so others of coughing that experience so US Australia has also registered a nonprofit organization. Switzerland on says they did the night of really know an in that process. You find out who is who. There are some people who like to manage everything in control everything. There are those who just participate and we just have to make sure that we give everybody space express themselves as much as those few allowance allowance. That second old year I'll bet atmosphere that's cooled out of for Probation Awesome Supporting well is it a mindset that you can change a little bit or do you just have to accept. That's the way it is in work around. I guess rush hour experience from from Bosnia. What I came here I thought the main need to save for everybody a save from going down the wrong path into politics in Bosnia? We wanted to be cleaned we wanted. We want people to do the right right thing for the right reason In will be notices. That will be noticed. Is that Wha what's always happening So we'll see you how we can be source for the positive change for for the positive change in the country. I believe that a platform for progress. Progress can help people start thinking positively about the change of their role in it. I believe that they ask can be part of it. I believe that we can and we have to Find a way to talk to anybody and everybody even the WHO decide to agree to disagree then? A anybody everybody bucks our experience in Bosnia East that if you go to the extreme in you really state I have to try to keep everybody in no matter what we have to be patient for everybody no matter what what in time you realize that you're simply making Europe musician dysfunctional because people who easily gets upset people who don't want to be there because somebody else's assume there go who people are not there because of the idea Bob because somebody else is there were they like Cuidad note there if they don't if there's somebody it's like we realized that it cannot go too far so yes we want to be nice to everybody who liked to people. We one to provide an argument to people. Democratic arguments. Elevate lists stay Work with that person regardless Gov is because it's a bigger cost that something bigger than knowle's but it's an important chapter just cut it off and say I'm sorry I know you don't want to be here. Thank you for all your help as far Perhaps if in the future our stars aligned again bill together it's fine so we are transferring transferring in translating bags experience into our they ask for Telling them get. Yeah you're finding religion turn but let's try let's have a conversation civil coercion. But if it's real working let's figure out who has proven thus as far to the most constructive most open to other people's opinions most accommodating and then we will I know what the core is declared that the core declared that to be the unit own the body the tool lead and think everybody else. Some say sorry. Didn't work out. This time be understands open for the coalition the future but right out somebody else should lead so those top associations you have to have and then one last one here in terms of the assembly inbound Luca. I can see it in your face phrase. I can sense it in your voice. There's excitement the importance about doing doing this this way. Or you get any pushback at all on this assert. Does it seem like everyone's on board with the idea that this is. This is really neat. I honestly think that's everybody's avoid there are some people who are afraid that there could be some issues like they turn off the lights or advocacy power to the somebody. Somebody turned off the power to the bill of A Ah talk about that as a bus ability. Let's build in The the backup generator and just have that. Let's think possible bad things that can happen. Yeah we will have the police there. We'll have the Fire Real have. I ate whatever emerges emerged of emergency of Vehicles and whatever we will do what is required for large meetings. I hope some people are afraid of physical violence. Denies Swabia bring mood. We're going to offer. Boss does for Tation they should bosses for most a lot of agent places. Some people will obviously covered foot We'll we'll give them Pointer somehow to avoid travel divided causing trouble by the Vail Regatta again issue any Jersey of any offensive language on just be normal quite citizens comments our thing but so the only thing I think I would like to really avoid it cost any any physical harm to any any person. I want everybody to feel safe. I think logistically if something doesn't go wealth twelve will overcome we can work under the lights of the fullness. It's okay we'll make so And I know awesome people who basically said Oh. We would have more people in Syria. And I said sure but probably two thousand people in six hundred million in by I know Kim succeeded in loca- carry more weight at this point as a message that we care about all of the all citizens then we we go back to the same old place where everybody else is going we. We want to be different than show with our actions so there are people who are who who have. You have cautioned us that we need to think about many issues by really really appreciate it but overwhelmingly it was positive Lee received Bolshevism Act and as a message and I will be takes place I I was born in why not.
#2 Mental Coaching Basel with Kristyna Brabcova
"Hello and welcome everyone to our next episode of Health and trade podcast. We'll give space to enterpreneurs and there startups. Today's guest is Christina. I'm Christina China in our meet up in Basel and I'm very happy that she join me today to introduce own Venture Christina stages yours. Hello Stephan thank you for having me and how everybody. I'm really pleased to have met this group and now to be able to introduce what I do you shared with you all greater here percents. What is it exactly? What is your winter so I'm doing a mental coaching? And the way I do it is that I use the rush method. which is a method developed into Czech Republic? And it's a very gentle But fast and efficient fishing methods with which again solve really any problem you dealing with so to make it a little bit more understandable when when me experience something or some situation with people or together as problem is because we get bad bad feeling emotional or physical or both. That's when you when you realize that this is a problem. Otherwise it would be Justin Austin Notre occasion or maybe even a happy occasion. It is obvious to different people experienced different situations or different encounters encounters as a problem. And the reason why is it. We all have different programs on which we operate and in this method we work with these programs so we specified the emotions. That that you have in your problems go after two thoughts which caused these emotions and then look for the origins and the origins since we find in the childhood we Dick Little Bit into your your child family and tone. We basically look doc forcing occurred onto the sixteen year of age and be cleared there. We cleared them by acceptance. And as a result you know trolleys these programs and as a result Your problem now is solved because basically what you do is set to cancel auto to neutralize triggers. Then make the problem happen in nowadays outlet Bit Understand Fund fascinating. I mean trying to understand it. Maybe I'm technical thinking person I'm trying to understand. It really sounds like you're writing a code for your life and at certain times you do bog because you encountered something. There is something that triggers negative emotions which tend to actually influence your future perspective of things or understanding of situations making a negative emotion at the end of the day again which just breaks system for you. You can't continue like that forever. It he did. It is because we basically live the consequences of our previous decisions. It may be that a situation that you lived in one family with tiffany. Several siblings was negative for you. We are sibling. Probably was totally oblivious to it and another sibling thought Oh there was even remember. That was fun one one situation family three siblings totally different experience for each item and there. Let's say that you're the one that thought this is not fun at all. This actually painful and there. You made a decision. Maybe you were five year old. Will you made a decision. All dissertation I'm going to behave this way. Wait to protect myself from hurt from it hurting me again and what happened instead. You basically do create a code which you try I to work with over and over and over again in your life with a very different release but still the same problem and when you speak to people they often complain about similar things again and again day just encounter damn at school at work in the family but when you crack down to what really borders them. It's one or two things okay. I really simplify it right now but it may be dead easy and what we actually do with. This method is said I it it breaks free. You know it makes you free to look at a situation or or things from different point of view because once you don't operate according to this program he can just step aside and say hey if you look at it from this point of view it is actually okay and if you step Moore's I'd easing. Oh dessert quite funny. You know or or maybe you don't even see that thing happening happening. This is why some people can work with money and other people can't for some people. It's a great challenge. It's a great fun and other people get completely crashed because it stress and all it means for them. It's fear of losing money. This is easy. Exactly exactly why why certain people look at things very positively an astronaut and some people you think more fruit their life totally with lightness and others are just trying very hard and maybe are very successful but suffering all the way interesting. How did you come up with it is I mean how did you even get to to to multi jeter's to step towards mental coach Inc.? My Path was dead. I I started in Belgium. I lived there for twelve a few years and since I started in tourism and hospitality I started to work for an airline company I really had lord of fund their the airport and then all the traveling and it was certain time I thought highs this possible that one can have so much fun and still earning money you know but then I guess the lifestyle requires you to have very Very demanding lifestyle for your for your body for your balance that you often have lack of sleep you have to do with millions and millions of people and I guess throughout my life. I started to be also so more sensitive towards what I really need and I start to feel more like a person who needs more privacy more time and let's say bobble for myself and I started to feel that this actually giving out all the time Really tires me too much and so together. It came down today surgery to have health problems and so on and then it ended up with a with the occasion of some tax and a addresses airport. And then I decided I need to quit the job because I was basically all but ill. I did not enjoy it anymore at all and then I I found this method was following normal. Let's say psychotherapy But after half year of therapy a helped me each time. Let's say for few days after but didn't really move anywhere a great step and then by coincidence which obviously you if you really observe your life that things are not coincidental at all. You just need to write timing and the right. You know the moment for you to get ready I did you meet it in life I found this method and I used it two years for basically healing myself and and that was it. I thought I need to hear myself but all I found was that with better health. I got the confidence I suddenly started to feel. Feel free to do all the hobbies I wanted to do when I was a child and thought I can't do that and nobody would ever tell me Yukon on. Do the ballet. I didn't even dare to ask my mom. You know so all this brought me to the situation where now here in Brazil everything as possible. Hustle and I know that me work myself and thanks to this method. It's as well that I created myself the right space to do what I love to most so into. I'm having a blast right now. I'm really fascinated and the whole story is very motivational relational. Especially when you realize that you actually had a job which enjoyed but then things develop towards negative and then came breakpoint. You kept fighting. You wanted to have the solution for your own problem and you realize that and then you came with a solution for yourself which now you're trying to apply to help other people and I think that's very motivational to be honest. I'm very happy that you hear on the podcast. That's great to hear so. Tell us about current state of Your Office of Your Mental Coaching with in Basel. How does it work for your here? It works well. I must say I do sometimes pay more attention to my Hobie since away work and a Like to say I mean it's a job it's not as I didn't even have time for my for work but it's also would I believe in. I do some promotion and so on but kind of enjoy working organically so if what what presents itself right now are all kinds of activities are. Let's say in the category of hobbies. I enjoy them fully and when declines presumed ourselves I totally go go and focus on the clients. Mike capacity is not full full. I could totally have more clients but It's all right so I'm really happy that Eh Matt today here Because I know that this method is not a very spread in insulin. Probably nobody knows them knows it. Except for for some of my clients that I had are from the Czech Republic who not methods from over there and I think it's totally worth to spread right to the society because I just see result myself and I'll be totally happy to to help anybody who's interested it with it. Yeah otherwise would I do. I work sometimes in Czech Republic unauthorized. I work via skype. Or what's up on that matter. It's totally totally flexible. I speak five languages. It's working well but it could could be busier in your search for. I suppose you also look for automatic which could help you? You also research in that field. There are various methods that you can apply to yourself to help yourself getting out of the struggle. Do you see them now. As as an alternative Richard can also offer or do you see them more as a competing alternative. I don't really believe in competition such as this is best and this this is worse and so on I've been doing yoga for longtime Dan I decided I want to be Yoga. Teach into the moment where I realized I don't want to do yoga. Got Any more at that time. It was the perfect thing for myself because I was obviously not ready to deal with it on the mental level. What I needed was daily training? That would change my thoughts. Put me into different. Mindset kicked me physical energy and kind of a reset to do to balance between my work and school and only later was was when I found the method it was as I said kind of coincidence but I Did Not Research Different Mental coaching. I was going for half year due to the psychologists were Who was offered to me by by my work? And then I found this video about this method basically on Youtube when I was looking for I believe I was probably listening to some speeches of at Catala so that was the the way I was going but that definitely did not do any research. Kind of awards disconnect. Give me an is better than that. I just really believe that there are so so many of these type of pallets or this type of therapy and people always tried to innovate. But you know what it is. It's he's usually just taking aspects from already existing things in giving them a different code and it's fine. You know I believe in in sharing and when you put something out there a new ready to earn money with it you should also be ready to people take it an if you want to call run away with it or I call it take it and use it and please be free and always ready to help you and share information. I have and you know there's also other type of fatty did you get back. It doesn't always need to be money so competition. Yes no I do not push this method. That really helped me. But I'd not push it through the fraud of anybody else I offered. If you WANNA listen you listen if that resonates with debts fine you welcome and if you're up to something else feel free to go and dissenting us. AC It's I can see a very positive person. I like it very much. It is definitely easier to go over days if you're a positive thinker and you see things as opportunities than just burden or or challenges all the time. It's it's great to see especially because all your motivation comes actually from your own experience. That makes it so much more valuable. Because I'm not sure actually upcycle a psychiatrist. Do therapy themselves bill. Yeah I've heard. Now that they are they have some obligatory ones in three months. I never studied psychology. So I don't know I can only imagine what they go through and they definitely know much more Apollo functioning of our brain and so on what I did not really enjoyed going constantly somewhere and not really reaching results belts ride now. That was a bit frustrating for me on a long-term because so I don't want to just do something like yes some things you just do because because you enjoy them but when I have a problem I do not want to be healing myself. Or let's say I said English I. I don't WanNa want to be in the process of doing our to do it like if you I was gifted itself but if you're going out to a newer going to pick the mushrooms mushrooms are we going to pick mushrooms or are you going to find them. Get them had them new boss. EC Two that's also the the mindset did do you get on different activities and everybody should realize it whatever you want to achieve. Are you acting out of three. You don't feel potential Ari acting out of fear. Are you decided to get it or do you just do it because someone told did you saw or because you think you should do it because everybody else says it would you achieve with it. Why do this that? Why do you go to work? Why do you you go to any classes after work? Why do you go to the bar tonight? Would you want achieve it. That's all broken down towards mindful living often when I speak to people and I asked him back. Why don't you start with enterpreneurship? And usually the answer is that I mean from my understanding what I can. I understand from what people tell me that. They don't really put themselves achievable goals. Ahead of them. Don't even try to reach those goals. It usually speak so I am dreaming dreaming about it but a dream. Don't come to be reality unless you act upon them. That is I think. Also what you mean that you really have to go for achievement. At the end of the day is not just about. Yeah I'm going to the forest mushrooms actually going and get those mushrooms. That's a very important point this true and if you progress this nature which I'm a master at just be mindful to do procrastinating and do not complain at the end of the day. You know you couldn't do it. Of course you can watch the net flicks and you can do all many other things than what you're supposed to do to achieve your calls at work which is fine. We've dead makes you happy at the end of today find and you can probably complaint yourself in the mirror but if then makes you upset set the end of the day and you still go to the bar and meet your friends and put that bucket of upset over them. It's your problem. There's definitely and wondering you were saying that this whole method you want to achieve something at the end of the day and you're going after it. Is there something like a minimum number of hours hours that people spend with you from experienced and then you know that usually after one week of sessions we have certain progress or does it have to be more long term when when you find out that the person actually has way deeper troubles and we need to keep talking to to him and going more deeper into his young age and find out what is it. Exactly what is the burden is really interesting. And thank you that for this question because I see a lot of people thing if I start some therapy happy in needs to be some long term thing so already the mindset is it's GonNa take long and I should not expect the result right away and this method is total opposite. I give to my clients for one session three to four hours and look sometimes. We're ready after two in half and if they don't don't have anything else they can deal with visa goodbye Cheddar if they need five hours to stay good diet give them the five hours we deal. You would the problem they come with so there is no need to dig into your childhood and try to speak about everything and everything to happen to good thing engaged to realize what you want to deal with. But even then sometimes people my clients and many and say I'd like to deal with this and that and then miraculously something happens on the way On their way to my to my office and they're like you know I wanted to talk about this this it's now happened and really upset me and we end up talking about that and we figure that that was the real problem that was really waiting on them and then when let me check with the original topic that they wanted to deal with. They're like oh it doesn't bother me anymore so there's no need to wash Owner dirty clothes. We deal with the problem. You have their refund the origin we deal with it as easy. So you own schedule. Any set of therapies. Because again they will be wrong. Mindset if you come Anita. I sold my problems within these four hours. Steny most likely do it. If you set five therapies ahead then you end up lots and you will make sure that they would need the five therapy speakeasies case that was your mindset. That's how we how we operate fascinating. I'll listen. This is not a critic against professional psychologists. But it's completely different. Approach towards problem solving actually approach declined definitely different setup than so far I've encountered and I like it very much like exactly for me. I would have problem to to go to psychologist exactly for the reason because I don't want to set up my cell for healthy. You're talking to someone about things that maybe I do not want to talk about. I know this is my problem. This is where it comes from because I reflected on it and I just want to talk about that and I want you to listen understanding of and help me get out of it. Elected approach very much. I think for me it would be fitting and I think for most of the people who are in enterpreneurship little time busting their Ariza knows who to bring up to the next level thing that could be very helpful it would definitely be interesting listing for starters because often People think as you said rationally they think about it from many different Sites rights and they think that they they thought through all possibilities even the negative ones and so on the thing they might be ready for everything and so on which is good but they may simply have something that stops them from being successful because something wholesome down. They're not free to believe leave that they can be anything in the world. Plus there's one thing you may think of everything that might happen but if you actually have have the freedom of believing that this is what you doing and it's GonNa work out than let's say. Miraculous things may happen which which you have never sought of things sets are kind of The universe gives you a hand. Yeah and I'm not all this who are on masonry things and you know. Let's Burn Kendall this I mean the method is very logical. She could but simply we all know that sometimes things happen to do think man. I would never expect this to happen and I met dispersing by coincidence and this is America and these things basically to happen behind what you can see so if you you can be humble enough and realize that probably not everything can be thought food you actually giving yourself the opportunity to get much higher it much quicker than you ever thought. Also what would he spoke about the Waitress I have respect for them because damn hard work for us we. We tend not to work with people on onto depressants. I had some experience with clients on on drugs basically smoking weed and so and is really difficult to work with them because what it does to you to bring the two. You don't feel your your emotions very much. Watch it. Supress your emotions. And that makes you operate better in in a normal life but for the therapies very difficult and I we know that the psychiatrists psychologists since they work differently. They probably can get to these people somehow easier. I don't know I mean psychiatrists are overdose. Who prescribed the medicine so we also need them? I am very much for complementary medicine but I would not talk talk against other Patrick Medicine all respect and we definitely different times. Different people need different. How so it's good? It's very a healthy statement. Did you think about joining forces with someone else for example in your venture right now. You're helping helping people mentally. I am very much aware when I used to consulting my life was anything else than healthy. No time to have a proper food always going for restaurants nothing homemade food that galaxy now I can nutritional healthy diets for myself was completely off the table for me would be interesting to have your thoughts on. If you thought about combining that we someone else's help you could say like I understand that you have these sort of problem but maybe you should also look into your diet live. There are some improvements to I'd be done can benefit. You're on a long-term did you think about that. Not on a professional level. I was Roger Thinking that that would be something that will totally interest me due to. Let's say if I want you to be my personal coach on Light La- let's say health wise because I'm the yoga teacher as well. I'm really interested in Facial Yoga which is not only aesthetics. It's really changes. Your your mindset as well because let's face it we I mean humans are quite wayne creatures and when you look at your Salif a new look good your face is not all saggy and you you know we are is get brighter and all that it also sets you to a better day and you're likely to be more efficient than successful if someone asked me to look after him and say hey. Can you help me to get better altogether. Oh totally love to do that though. I don't have Course of nutrition attrition I. It's all through. How help myself how? I put myself through a thyroid inflammation and so on. So it's all trying thing on on on myself but that would be definitely a good idea. So if there was between the starters anybody who would like to set up a hop for a healthy lifestyle I would definitely loved it. Yeah I'm wrong because just an an X.. Up there will be a lady presenting her new new venture which is just now starting and she goes into the direction of nutrition and health diet and giving you help on that side and I was just thinking it would be interesting just that you talked to gotta just exchange your experience. How is your approach towards helping your clients whatever comes off was up to you ladies but just out of interest this is your health and trade great because I can totally imagine speaking mom? She likes to go for example to to her nails Dell's once in a month or go for the Harrison from time to time and that kind of care also makes her happy she feels good afterwards. That's understandable. I also feel you quite fine up to Heckert I suppose nevertheless I think that could be also something that is I wouldn't say necessarily enterpreneurial Venture to to just to begin with as a startup can scale it endlessly. Don't think that that is the past that it can be taken but it sure can be sort of off wellbeing centre where you can visit them when you get out of there if you're a totally new person and you're ready to face the challenges yet definitely idea. Thank you have to give you the contact that yeah absolutely Avi A. V. Pleased to to meet ninety great make Healthier at ready to get their challenges would be wonderful and anybody else obviously. Yes well our time almost over. I'm really grateful to to have you here Christina. This was for me eye opening on one side because I I am aware that I have some issues. When I'm thinking about problems how I approached him might not always be the best I suppose because thousand people thousand different opinions and there has to be a reason for that uh so I'm always considering those as well trying to look at things from different perspective but yet I know I'm filtering it through glasses? I like it or not. Removing those finding finding the best solution is essential for success. Full start up for anything that you try to do so to me. I think that could really help Christina. I'm looking forward forward to be on your table right here. I perfect and with that. We'll share now your context People can reach out to you through Instagram Christina with excellent after the T. underscore rabbits and via our facebook page mental coaching Basel. We'll also share those links and information are posts and in our book. I'm really happy that you were here. Christine and let you talk to me and and I hope at the end of the day I can also help somehow. Thank you step up for having me this great be here. Thank you very much. Thank you until our listeners. Stay tuned it was great to have Christina Christina here I really enjoyed it and hopefully also had something out of this podcast and yeah. Let's each other in the next podcast. Thank you very much for listening.
Should be the last show without a guest
"A bob here is so. I know you're listening to this podcast experience and let me tell you i do everything on the phone. So i've done the whole show everything on my phone so far and i couldn't figure out a way to do the podcast version. And then i found anchor. And if you ever heard about anchor is the easiest way to make a podcast. Let me explain it's free. There's creation tools that allow you to record. And edit your podcast right from your phone computer or like i do. Stream yard gives you an option when you're premium member to download audio and so i can just take audio from that and put it over here. I can record the intros naturals in arizona. Guys really cool anchor will give you the podcast for you So it can be heard on spotify apple podcast and many more. You can make money from your podcast with no minimum listenership. It's everything that you need to make a podcast in one place and let me tell you guys is somebody that made a podcast way back in the day. This is really awesome so you can download the free anchor app or go to anger. Fm to get started. So how film equipment. Now go to mike. This setup got a new laptop coming. And i'm going to be having guests coming on the podcast begin soon. So one guy you know that and update unless you knew what's going on here. Hopefully in the next week there will be a episodes coming up. That have guests on there. Where i'm kind of curious about from you guys and you can email bob's adventure. Ad in key you are e. g. dot com. Then we know who you mean interview on the show or if you'd like to be a guest on my show email that email address bob's adventure gino dot com and let me know that you'd like to be a guest on this show because i'd like to have you on the show and talk you so i'm going to start scheduling guests to be on the show here shortly as well and i am very very excited to get this show going again. I'm kind of kind of fired up to get going again and kind of excited to talk to people and see what's going on out there with everybody else. So if you are interested in being gassed email. Me and i love to have your show sometime. I hope that you all have a wonderful wonderful day day. I've been through a lot recently. I was in the hospital. Rule that for Mental issues out because physically hurt and maybe reevaluate things in really appreciate the fact that i have this opportunity to interview people and maybe this some legacy people can go back and listen to and maybe take something from taking advice and all that kind of stuff. So that's kind of my goal with us. Have stuff that you can listen to enjoy and that you are excited as as an audience to listen to. I appreciate every single person. That's been listening to this podcast. so far. Still listening to it even when there isn't much coming out but hopefully that will change here shortly hoping to have guessed from all different walks of life. I'm going to have some more More famous guests at some point And not because they're famous. Because i want to ordering some stories that maybe they haven't told before the guests that i have on. I try to ask questions that nobody else asked them before. I spend a lotta time researching and all those first episode that you saw me put out a lot of those. Were all done within a month. I had multiple per day. That i would be would be doing so multiple multiple twos ongoing three interviews a day plus doing research. I kind of burnt out so this time. I'm not going to be doing that many in today. I'll be doing you know here. You know a couple of weeks to three week until i get a good logo until thank you again for sticking around. I know these aren't long episodes in a lot of people. Listen to the silicon house. Listen to on their commute. And a lotta people are back to work. Which i'm happy to see happening and so i can't come to you and say this is the greatest episode. May you're going to hear but for me as the start of s- getting back to doing this radio early so if you are interested and you want to be on the show bob's adventure gmail.com is the way to contact me or get a hold of me and leave a message on anchor. Leave me a message here. Basel insured on wheels on anchor. The damage show. You can find it on their arab you can. You can actually send Voice messages to me. And i can play them here on the show. So thank you again for being an audience. That still listen. I appreciate are you out there. And hopefully you appreciate me as well and i think you do because you're listening to me but i will be back with you next week. Hopefully with an episode with guest. Hopefully this is the last one. I'm doing on my own without Ask mike concept poidevin so stick around. We'll have some guests coming up. And i really appreciate you guys Listening and if you haven't listened to the back episode yet and you wanna get caught up and kind of see what i do. Take a listen to those and we're gonna get busy people get next week so thank you again for cigarette. I know what i'm saying. Thank you lot Gratitude today so thank you. And i'll see you in the next one.
"So if you don't mind put cost to regiment sums on owned elegant your allow hans on and with the team of bustle. Let's talk into your on. That does the dolphin i. I'm not intervision on var. Is the album. This guy isn't salami on love or and your code is someone's issues. Blanquita seen become or or an muscle plea on and then leaked by whom i can leash each meal. These us to stick. I'm gabe leash. Plus the bombs believed in the rule of what kind of mine us kinds of lucrative reporters team. Also one of us kazakh. Inc give us in the league. Land in completeness is these. I knew my leaders. Zell's does this by fear card. You dot contents then this system. Although abc cute dan decision yatim filer hours plus becomes us is utilized labrada understood visit. Division incline is t mobile apple mirror. Besmertny hatched any optimus feel vaseline class. Lots of most cleaning of kind. File year diminutives poodle or the lamotta cold tea on copies or and clouds muscle bowl is dustin zoo in percent does it might. Disney walked been off and into a common vision. tigers quality. Big is owned as he can star. Be woman to be near on as it was african. Filing this is meant that oklahoma one week is particularly on. that's the ending of wish is allies. Join copy hope believed my plan ric young on the business. Awful guidon on either by these are normally. This muscles is highest is by fear cards us. How does fossil is is well plus misty. Who's the dish in the moment. Realized this is the way it's excellent. Mitchum buzzer is hot by few hot includes minded by god although events so wound is where shwim canister let's talk. Violence lightest so i had one of its. This is sue. Wouldn't up to resolve my mouth feel from comfortable. Basel does so. I'd be kind. What did prestige blows once or co ponzi. Basel form on How blue. I was or and also attracts you. On maza is not truly movies and off working found premium it. Fun vocation so gas niche zoo high but you will league div vases ahead eight and i love lifestyle claw. The visit us was televised back off released when this fleas idiots in the back of all in cupula strike us in on behalf an auction house had their campus flash from being forced this big. Look to my house. All under trenched uber. The poonam amend anga craft by nuns indian. Copy lau bitola. Now order state and dave houghton blyden. So that's how my uber ceo. Experimenting your message dingo class nandana league with swoop dundas on this is then shown that is the how for me your nen albumin cup eating out and washed so visit guns and dune y'all finding aid ocean. Boot doors fleeced owned indian. Stike not actually know what the fluid in deason copy lower and oust ayden went on. Strike this some on the cup. So cooed liden into bloom of each that sweden. Newt vendors in cop is of each fortune's tomb. Want a copy of this warm anger practice. I will be the up. When done mendes bruton up crude give into vida in a who a distant as hong in indian fly. We do not seem when then pilot read us. Blue on their eyed. As i invite who real and is zinc's drift does vomit blue bus fund involvement truth and calm now squad at dealing actualize to ti-tiffany day. Meyer align college. Ba gruner to an end of up because the district wouldn't sue and end effect on and kayce sloughs of the night half often. This law saul spas. Yuban done is cleared. The cop cruiser when diffuser mom. Then these are guys loved loved. Ben dor is pollute. Our hats hits you believe as highest in los outside. I ended up pump arbab blue of of vassal zo. For linux to doors hats fleeced put hats. Chinese garmisch for life is does done feel. Ill are bugle. Hartwall the of to storm in ashdod then to ads the frog on his hobby starvation palm walk in electric energy on uber de have bannon for titled device kinda novel da da kind of video. So i really wasn't. The missile instrument can study gun. Sweeney on from rising his voice. It kid all particularly among this forceful can lesson is will just. I miss my longer. So is the new beleaguered mir. That's unfortunate national on me. Finish and union fire. this is always a sluggish. When doesn't mean it's mild by stinking. Nba visit me for the comfortable this year. Them foods paseo. When cup and martin it's more nba fee plex and glued to new mishmash. Nourish whole foods in young. Didn't stick answer by. Of course there for tool for help visit blue when this was an reminded donna. Auditor zone is brewed is leaking. You wonder what's in bombs. Five routes in senior diarmid to our integration rain. You could janna destroyed bomb it. Yeah think the team is seconds claw is not clich essence how indefeasible blyden went to go on when business. Alphabetize dow click. I'd who's it now. Because after the contract is argument you might try to physically priest eastern. but when you're aligned. John brute brute bruising taste is not truly new and the logger phenomena off to straighten by louisiana of of quintana roo. Indicia and don moose. But i'm kicked us guns. I mundi so darn content. That sumitomo's on this might in boom undulating spun. The visit allah does mid michael and twenty committing on. Hindi's does shuffle moon. One clark inclusion a spill chuffed tyler behold into fries on business today on my not ask. If we're under this tyler into laga the uni- spies as balanced. I am to be the back back. This time to buy or and vassal johan doesn't mandy constantly on chris. Tyler on also is found floozy. Chris tyler can now so in the largest informat spite when vendettas annual for bank dot haydn is this for life. Mile moons okay. Here in the largest to acton flashed. Is this your toddler a household zone on through despise. Your own influence. You in his first in. Nick is in london the invent invent our name and bundle. The crystal on fire realized more. Kunda shirts columnists issue we. We've been in and out. An i in hide in in dolphin does believing that's especially this vassal. Woodlock through windsor useful movement is finally implemented on. Dvd mac is is on the dick autism a household code or mid between muzzle berkeleys. Berkeley music talk much in tokyo. Basel vicious indian violin kind coverage as bush basel waza in tightness in our class. Basel ones are a fish and today and on the kite was it through madden. I voted for president. Is loyd be. When it's my vied for nice liters yao coned due you as newman be dimension. It's so i don't that's that's into of these mosleh house search dish be stunned aiden no so sustainable for columbia when my info motaung how about our high and analyze information bisson yogesh one. Finding footsie didn't clinked us permission. Half would cbo as the blues. Unfold does is. I i saw on. As many as yet. Assume tarver because bush taliban-linked up the whole upset. The national walmart is the neiman thing on them of all the tusk visa muslim tears. Timeline copies of suffering is how how does kranish. Connie mack out of violence linage. our economy is are eligible. Listen should swing four hard when it's often thank you for more visit dembosky basel fired and flashed up on mars old of a line the battalion this fossils supposedly from for one hundred to my few moments that i've spent too much. You have forty oscar to the line. Not mile of let the hub. Ethnic tiv wassall was overtaking fell last night. david fun. Time flew more in following the empire in cobra asked my beautiful live on air you out. It indicates a common well done as low tonight. Mccovey winston bidding signed most clock respect of does being hot som- talk to begin an asked as glass all not for the little glass watson condone dive on spy asia. Spicer for mood or removed should be updated levy. As one hundred system side-on the and talk owned finding haugesund. Tad's h stritch kyd school district in basel household was called philosophizing and in touch on it needs to let it Is thing when we were league. Does it suaza. Essential is fewer guns. But i get. The mouse is listen. Bond him eugene cygnus afoul new carbon improve the issue of pajamas. The ecclesia on does awesome. Damn it encloses. Shits in the of height owned tatra miserably. It a small vida. I-in causes class lightens. Hi maurice link owned last is could gain past of and next month. Let's talk this time.
Events are coming back! Freestyle of Nations returns w/ Pinyol & Huppert
"For me it was the first of the trump show after them and it was super nyc really having feeling like proper rockstar standing in the middle of the stadium and having to crowd all around us. The noise doing is motivating us associate. Also seeing free semel to cross again. I think the last time i saw it wasn't twenty eighteen or something and now i again that they are freaking maniacs. Welcome to the ride as land. Podcastone your host of this series steve. Some failed and this is just kind of a recap actually from the non if the jumps freestyle nations competition which was held in basel a couple of weeks ago. It's been incredibly busy off to the event almost as much as it was before we had a lot of projects all happening in september. Those one planning going on. And i guess he could. Probably cy reloaded rusty. It's been eighteen months just sitting there thinking Do i need to open. Is this and that and i would say on a personal level. The only thing. I forgot was putting eggs name down on the shuttle list i did get. He's flights. I forgot to put his name on the shuttle and about half an hour before he landed in the basel airport. Oh are but a jump in the van gogh pick him up so I mean if that was the only thing. I forgot after eighteen months sitting on my thumb doing nothing. Pretty much I'd say that was a that was a win. But this episode. It's a little bit of a wrap up of that event but also are looking at the positives of events slowly coming back. It looks like we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. And that's not a bad feeling and it was actually really cool to just see all of the guys who came to basel over the riders. All of the crew for all the technical soda. Stop the tv guys the catering of course the catering you love to see though because But everybody involved in putting on just one event that could be up to sixty eighty staff and all of those people have kind of been left in the lurch for the last year. I eighteen months lawyer and this was one event. We don't have any more plan for this year. Twenty twenty one but there are a couple actually quietly. Coming into the pipeline. So let's say maybe maybe that changes but it is nice that everybody can straw to see that light at the end of the tunnel now before we get into a kind of the rap of the event and to talk about everything that went in and around that as well with the ride is coming back and just seeing how excited they were. I did actually kit. do that. road has to that. I mentioned in the last episode between my house where i live in germany. And the oh halla in basel sexually quite handy. That the roadhouse brewery is about an hour away in pretty much on the direct line. They so i finally after eighteen months of doing this podcast the ride slash podcast and wrought house of support this before. We even started it. I finally got to mate mature and the team. They in the black forest region of germany and doing the special super duper vip brewery tour. Well as you can imagine. I was I was pretty pumped that day. It was freaking awesome going into the bowels of the entire burry checking out everything from from start to finish. Basically it was huge. I was actually surprised at how big it was. So if you're ever in germany make sure you get to. The raw taos brewery in the black forest region. It's it's better than doing all the natural nature walks and bike riding and whatever else not forget it. Just go do a burrito. That's ten out of ten. So no thank you so much. Those guys for For letting me come along and also for picking up a whole bunch more be turned out with an empty van and you can be assured i left with a full one and i think i've got a new favorite. The ice said flow. That was awesome but not would definitely still always gonna carry on with the alcohol freebies. They still I was actually quite surprised. Those a few different versions of them. Some that i hadn't tried before so thank you very much anyway. Getting into the basel event around freestyle motocross of kohl's i actually then ventured from roadhouse down to motorists because mock. Y'all has actually been living in switzerland. Who was riding for team spine. But he has been living in switzerland doing the circus caen shows. And if you guys haven't seen those circus shows. I'm sure you probably have. If you're listening to this podcast you know what. I'm talking about So yeah pin. Y'all he's been doing those because there's pretty much nothing else to do and he was just lucky. That switzerland was able to have those shows going for the last few months and i met him at the motoric factory which was also quite cool for me personally since i've also been supported by might erects from a one accessories in australia on and maybe twelve years So it's crazy. I've lived in europe for seven years. Almost eight and i never got to the factory and i fondly finally finally got there and it was just to do an interview with. Y'all sorry you may have seen some snippets of that with the video and it was awesome to meet those guys as well. The most important thing for me however was talking with the chemists and understanding a little bit more about the oils specifically for the katie. Him to strike for me But yeah if again. If you're in switzerland if you come back from basel all zurich in switzerland next year not of the jumps if you wanna come. It's not that far away actually to get to that factory But having a chat with mock pin y'all we did do a pre event interview. And i have got a few words from mark at the end of this episode. So i'll i'll put them in and But mainly it was just to talk with him and see the motivation. Or how we had to deal with that motivation losing motivation overriding during the pandemic. And then kind of out of the blue you've got to be ready and go for. The competition are actually hanging around and listen to the The wrap up on the end of this episode. So as we go into basel. We had team germany team spain and tamed france. It was the freestyle of nations three teams. Battling it out three freestyle riders on each team and everything was looking quite good team. Germany lugano common hans ackermann kai the three the three germans pretty much. that's it. I think There are a couple more But they're definitely the three main guys who were in the big advance in competing oli round team spine maupin. Y'all ed guitar. Interros michael malaria. Huge team and france with donald. Rinaldo are ramey. Biswa and maxine greg goal. So yeah everything was looking good until unfortunately hanis ackerman fatigued. Germany had to pull out due to well. An old injury. Still got complaints of this Leg injury Was some numbness. It wasn't a leg injury. It was more from the broken. Becky told me that he suffered in munich. Way back in whims us two thousand sixteen so he still issues with that and he unfortunately had to pull out. He made his way. He did get to basel. But you did have to pull out. So that is war you will he About mattei zach and you'll be wondering why in the world a check ride was on the german team. That's the reason we always do. We have a backup right adjusting case. Something happens and This farmer was mattaya so he slipped in for team germany. And you'll find out very quickly. That was the best thing germany possibly could have had. I think so going into the freestyle motocross. Ron's how it works. Is each rider on every team will do. Just one run. There's no qualifications finals. It's just one run. And then there's a few joke around a wild cod rounds. So we've got the whip comp the sinker and best trick and so you get into getting to see all these different disciplines actually being tallied up for reason to go towards points at the end of the night and that's what we like actually about the fray style of nations format so in the first round team spain mopping all like i said. He's he's had to come out of conduct this. Yeah no motivation. But then he was doing circus shows. Which is i guess six jumps neidl ten jumps maximum. And then he had to gone. Throw it all down without any real practice. And in the end he came out with the highest points after the first freestyle might across ron's penal and i it was matt h. Izzak for writing for team germany. In second he had a great run as well and team france. Maxine greg all. Well i was really looking forward to his run but unfortunately in training he went for the flan knock didn't even go for standard flat. Didn't even just try popoff quarterback to make sure it was in the right place. He just had the flip leave is up and just sent the flare knock in training he deeds on rotate at. I think he had maybe if he just had forty five degrees more on landing and would not have been an issue but he just kind of stopped and tweaked his name really bad so he didn't get any more training. I think that was only the first round of training that was it. He was then on ice old died. Went back to lower tail on ice came back and he could barely walk. he's like our on. I'm still going to go for it. So yeah in his stall run. It wasn't looking great. You could tell he could barely move. You could barely do any tricks. And he still went full the flan knack in the double up and again it was the same issue. I guess he's a little bit nervous. Still on that ramp was the same thing and on a went was this time. And he ended up fracturing his wrist. We didn't know at the time. It was only about a week later when he got harm. Sorry a huge shoutout to maxine greg. All he he's definitely one of a call and is is such a noise dude but he really has completely different completely different bag of tricks much variety especially on the quota paw so does suck that He took a crash and took a broken bone for his troubles. So i really hope you get wilson might then we went into the whip competition and this one was always going to. He pretty crazy. I think because you've got ed guitar and tara's and mock pignol's to ride from h team goes in and we weed out the the one writer from each team and then you've got a final of the best wipers from each team. Basically so mopping. Y'all an ed guitar. And tara's of course we know our epa is one of the biggest names in best whip. He's got an x games gold and a whole bunch of other metals from x. Games wait but penal has some huge sundowns. So i thought team spain. This could be their wildcard round to win. Well check kyw heyzer for team. Germany had something to say about. And actually those dovid rinaldo and remmy biswa faim france since maxime was automatically out by now but Actually it was matt. Hsa zach the check writer drafted in for team germany. Manage to get post kyw hausa who has some of the biggest whips as well and in the end. It was a crowd decision. And i completely blew it because i thought it was the judges on that one. So obviously i read the The show plan role But yeah it was a crowd favorite and matinee. Chaz zach the young star one over the legend ed guitar interros and donald rinaldo. So with that. There's actually twenty barness points in these Wild cod ranch. So that actually put germany up quite high to start off with sar at that point. I think maybe luke and kawhi were pretty happy. That matter came into their team because it definitely held death then in the second round of the runs again. It was one ride from each team. France germany spain. So france remmy biswa. He just beat out causa and at guitar tara's for that one ramming of coal sees a three time world champion. He was looking pretty good. It wasn't the biggest run with overseen from remmy. But it was definitely good enough to bake call i and edgar picking up his forty eight point forty five forty one as we go down through those names but the cool thing about hasa being only three points behind remmy was hasn't even been training for free style in the last six months basically throughout quarantaine kawhi has decided to try his at every single modern two wheel motor sport that he can pretty much do in. Let's say motocross a dirt bikes. So he's been doing in juror. Harbinger flat track. I think he was in the world championships for the flat tracks speedway he even did downhill mountain bikes and he actually hadn't even ridden fray stalled also think one week before he jumped some ramps for one day just to conduct. Remember what what does twenty one meters on me to radius. Feel like it was just so crazy to say come out. But that's carnival said the difference you can see in different riders led. That is why. He's i dunno if you think about. I think about god guys like rummy marshall in australia who just has this ability to be the best motocross supercross racer or unbelievable in freestyle. That's kind of like the car hausa effect there anyway. Ed guitar interros. Also i for an old man. He has some of the best variety actually. So that's why he got some pretty high points in that round. Then we went into the next of the wild cod rounds. And that was the synchro competition and again. This is where germany must have been pumped to have mattei zack in their team. Him and call. I looked from the very first job. They just look the best now. Definitely they didn't do the biggest tricks but in sync they were a cut above everybody else kawhi. He was taking the inside line which everybody was fawning really difficult because basel is allah smallest arena in. I think the entire world championship series. Maybe only riga in lot via is smaller. So at seventy meters long total distance so that has to include safety barriers. The kona but yes so for your run up the ramp. Twenty-one one a gap the landing and the wall at the end is only seventy meters and yay call. I was pretty much the only one to get around that inside line and keep keep the speed up same with mattei so they won that one again so germany taking out. The two big wild cod rants. That kind of really shocked them. A lot higher up than team france and spain so for france to world champions going side-by-side ronald are in remmy. And they look pretty good. But you could just and i had bigotry. I think they had the biggest tricks out of every body bought the to the four. Strike the tight ops. Everything just didn't work out and unfortunately are in second place and in third. It was malaria. Dr michael malaria. First time. we'd seen him all night and machen y'all so they picked up third again some pretty big tricks but just not in sync and that's what that was all about. Then we go into the final riders of each team for freestyle run and these are the big boys with got well champions in he of course we had remy bizarre a world champion in the the round before but that's where france was lucky to world champions in the team so davidge rinaldo. He added good run. But it's been it's probably bain three full years since we've seen rinaldo at night of the jumps and maybe forgot the rules but it looked like he forgot when he's double up was and just did a nice big turn up which looked fantastic like it was a wide landing and he crossed from one side from the right hand ramp and landed on the left hand. Landing looked really good but definitely not enough if that would probably be when he should be doing like a double backflip. Or volta kelly or whatever else so that definitely hood him but then when he turned around and he was going to go for that double up. It's worth double the points. The lights were already out like it now. Time to celebrate the rotten and rinaldi's like nope. I'm still jumping so yeah dovid. Just went in center jumped in the dock and didn't really do anything but it was kind of funny to say like oh. This just didn't work out as well as planned anyways team. France picked up third in that round. Michael malaria are very good. Run from him bought. It just wasn't enough to take down. Luke ackerman so malaria five world championships in awry. He he lost that seeks tidal to luke ackerman at the lost well the lost world championship which was funnily enough in two thousand nineteen. Because we didn't get to do the world championships at all in twenty twenty We only had one free sullivan. Nations events are yeah malaria. He was Taken down by the youngster again. Luke always exciting. Maybe not the cleanest bought with that huge three sixty which everybody loved from x. games. He did that again at not of the jumps and finished with the double back flip and again inside the smallest arena. That probably wasn't the greatest for him near. There was noise. Stopping distance at all from the bottom of the landing to the wall was only ten meters off distance sar. Yeah lewke went for the double. And i think actually might have overcooked the first one just a little bit and then he was just heading straight for the wall and he managed to hit it. Body walked away. fine but Yeah team germany. Taking out the third and final of the ron's before we went into the best trick comp and in the best treat. This is where we're doing something a little bit different as well. We bring in the mountain bike. Ride is sorry. The team captain from each country. They get to choose which rider i'd like to have on their team from the mountain bike shar so tame germany they had nico schultz good german mountain bike rider team. France dovid renaldo. He chose dovid. god's eac to join him who's basically god ceac goes eight brothers there in everything there in the biggest mountain bike events around the world. Side god's eac was a really good choice and for tame spine. I think actually ed guitar. Tears was the captain so he chose the gun from switzerland who's never been at not of the jumps full lucas. Hope it and i guess the crab was behind him because lucas manage to get the highest points in the mountain bike. Best trick but unfortunately. It wasn't enough attains by sunday. They couldn't get any further michael malaria. I guess he wasn't feeling that by the end he didn't have the biggest tricks. That was a nice big rule. Flip but we nar. Malaria has so much more so unfortunately team. Spain didn't get any hoya rinaldo throughout a huge backflip. Double hot and again. It wasn't enough. And this is where the controversy actually came in a little bit. Lukac amon for team germany. The final jump off the night. He went for the double backflip again. Because it was best trick And he actually was under rotating it and he gave it the berries and while he was heading back towards that wall that he already hit and his freestyle run so instead of hitting the wool he was fish tailing and basically went into a controlled crash Seven meters after the end of the landing and then he ended up still hitting the wall one way or another so in my mind. You know. Always commentating the livestream at the time. And if you're listening to that a watching that and you're listening to this podcast now you'll probably remember. I called that zero like if that was me. Judging oud this is gonna be a tough one. Because he landed the trick. Any crashed pretty quickly. Oft do you give zero points for the crash all because we know the venue is just so damn small and he would have just absolutely smashed himself if he tried to hold on. There is an option to go like fifty percent of the points that you would have given. So i thought i k between zero and fifty percent. That's probably where the judges will gar. Nope i was completely wrong. luke tulkarm full points and with that tame germany was lucky enough with all of the other The wild cod winds throughout the night. It was enough for germany to take the win at the very first free stall of nations in twenty twenty one at nod of the jumps lies it. Yeah i mean you can. It could go all different ways. It could have been zero points. It could've been fifty percents. It could have been one hundred percent on this time like and in this event the judge is one hundred percent so yeah that was it team germany again. They won the final round of the free cell nations in two thousand twenty. And i won. Twenty twenty one. So looks like germany's one of the honda countries to be an on going to put that down to the differences in the variety in the tame. It's not just three champions riding together but actually three very different guys. And in the end i would say it was mattei zach. Who was probably the light. It should never have happened. Matt i said you know the night before. He was actually really happy just to come and just be affiliated rider so he does the training with everybody hoping i mean. We all hope that we don't need to have a backup ride there but because hanis pulled out then that's why he was in but yeah mattis said this election be really cool. I never get to watch. Freestyle might across competitions anymore or shows. I'm generally just. they're riding. Sorry he was really looking forward to it and in the end i would say it was him in those two wildcards. The gave the win to tame germany. So yeah who would have thought so. In the end it was five hundred. Twenty seven points obtain germany. Four hundred and fifty six for spine and very close behind tamed france. I was a little bit surprised. But that's how the cookie crumbles sometimes. And what i do want to say at the end of all of this. It didn't really matter. I mean it does matter because the gaza riding and they do want to win. But what i really was so impressed with was just hell pumped. Everybody was to back. Every ride was just start to get out of their homes. And most i think all my most of the guys drove there because it was only in switzerland which borders actually basel just to give you a geography lesson. Basel actually is on the corner of france and germany. So that's where the the rivalry was there But also team. Spain was coming anyway. And so most of the guys drive and just to get into the arena even with all of the coveted protocols and whatever else nobody cared it was just like. Let's run an event. Let's jump in there and as soon as the lights went out. The crowd just went crazy. It was a full house. It's been so damn long and i. I really hope for the all of the riders. I mean i'm speaking personally from my point of view but it was just unreal to be in there and listened to the crowd again and have a reason to turn up and put these events on all of that work and all of i mean basel must have been postponed. Four times by the told me finally go to don. We've other events that have been posed. Postponed postponed five or six times and some canceled here. And there and it really has been an annoying and trying eighteen months. But the moment that i bike was flying through the yakub hala. It was awesome. It was really good to say like. I said it could be a little bit of time before we do actually get to see the next event but at least this has given everybody that renewed enthusiasm that yep events will slowly but surely becoming back. Every country's different with the coveted protocols travel is different. Everything is different. Bought at least way getting closer and i mean we looked at x games. We did the x. Games review of every discipline and einar. There was some things that people liked and certainly some things. I didn't like about x. games but at least it was on not of the jumps in basel switzerland. There was only want one event this year. Normally there's between. I think eight fifteen events that none of the jumps. It was only one event but at least it was on. And that's that's kind of where we're getting to like as long as we're on this upward trajectory and guys astounding to pick up more showers on our. The spanish goes have a few more show is coming along. I know the germans though picking up a few shows as well bleeding into this one but also looking around the world. I'm watching the american ride as their backing walt. It almost didn't stop in america They have been doing shows which is really good. Notch are circus. They are on the ride. The nitro usa tour has been going off for the last few months now which is awesome free cell kings. They manage to get one to off in new south wales. Unfortunately the queensland tool was canceled. But i'm sure if i've if i think i know our josh hanner in the team at freestyle kings i'm sure they will be back anytime soon as well. But it just goes for everybody all around the world. It's all about to kick off again soon. Sorry hopefully twenty twenty one. We can just finish this off and harp. The twenty twenty two will be the start of a new chapter in freestyle might across. Let's say anyway. I want say a huge. Thank you again to the tape. At roy tales. Thank you so much for putting me up and doing the burry to with me. If you ever wanna do it. Just jump on that website it's wrought house dot. Da and also a huge shout to motorists. It was olson to finally get down there. See the factory and actually checked out the ktm crossbow. I've only seen it in pictures. But it was awesome to check out the cage. Gm car the next step. Is i wanna drive it. So i wanna say huge thanks to everybody at not of the jumps. All the ride is the fans the the catering like i said before the crew. The everybody anybody that's involved with any event. Thank you for sticking it out. This is the long whole ni- work for a long time. But it's awesome to say everybody just sticking in there and things are to get better. Thank you very much cheating in and just remember. We've got a few extra paces. He for maupin. Y'all and i think lucas hope it might have even sent a message through. And i'll put that in. Now thank you very much and we'll see to be in sydell was Pretty good and easy for me. Because i had not The riser or the problem to cross the borders. No one with that situation that this nowadays. That could be extra pressure if something goes wrong so because i wasn't ready in the country that was pretty easy to me to move to basel land actually of the freestyle of nations. I'm also super for for motor eggs and other sponsorships that they go make mean on the because right now as it up Here so was an extra motivation for sure. Because finally i could show the country that my sponsor new sponsor a good show. You know that we are doing Finally again good show. so was Was a special for me because of the jams also but to do it in switzerland for first time after This long time was also an extra to have my girl Got that for that already. For was An extra pressure. Because it's like okay dude Look the guys are back next to me. We have to do it. Good but also is like Hey but i'm with that guys you know so. At some point. I was also proud of my south. My work i guess to be part you know with With them so the right the show with got into with a special You also like a good motivation to us. it's a special because i ride my first show also with him so you always push me on. Michael is always well now still put like the good level that showed the so. I had to be also important to be the fast after that Stub was one side. Like okay good I will feel as fast but in the other is like i open again the night of the jams. Yeah when i opened up my first world champion career was not that good but well. I think you're go wobbly and Yeah i i was super. I have to say that. They were super neighbors about the thing. I i wrote a i wrote good. I decided to step aside some three. That i was feeling kind of percent coffee on. Yeah i feel. I feel good that i love it about maxime. Yeah it's a problem that the the the hat on practice Because i was really excited to see him back on the on the competition. Because i think he was super excited but the setup for the flex was not easy in the when the mobile again. Luckily we could not see the hundred percent potential of him montek. I have to say that he's surprised me a lot. Piero the super-safe I'm good best. We were was amazing actually I like how he did his. So i ate surprise me. It surprised me. It's so happy that he's back also in the level by to say that was a surprise for me. They win before When i see his weeps also were amazing but finally was like that then we have accepted and he will pollute off problem because after right after my round on my bike was super hot. And then right after the first round was best I was liike lots of oil there on the before. Go in Walter mini came to me and say be careful because new. Your bike and actually was through was leaking too much water. So i said the I decided to make that big to to keep the throat the that much because I didn't know how how much water was inside my bike. Actually so that's also my mind was like we saw the guy so anyway he will. So maybe that was a mistake from my par- Uh got also the you know so. We lost a few points there that i think for us where what crucial for petition by anyway. Mountain road super good. I think he killed so does out. The winner were not. Were not that good. Actually i started on a. I didn't see michael actually coming Is low down a little bit. And then he was data on a misdemeanor with the fleet. Korla under then. Michael was Not that close to me and you're not really in synchrony actually in practice with it pretty good but then competition maybe we just think the pressure little out. We were not focused on. Yeah we did not that good sinker contest as we got able to do for example invalid was was pretty good. Nice time but Yeah here well. That mistakes can happen. I prefer that that the christ. That's for sure We need to prove the same for sure. It was amazing. I just can't say that it was amazing to be back. Of course it wasn't like in in berlin because in belling was super ready to go super big the time before it hit all us but yeah to be back Was amazing to see that was super super super nervous but I wrote a hint. Pretty good at the nightside and I could still some sulphur. They call it a mobile so that was also amazing after the the day after i was so destroyer because we lost the rhythm to jump that much Bmi by buckeye was painful for for three days. And i was driving. You know here for the show is like i need to stop anyway. It's worth it. I really hope that. I can. That keeps go win. You know Night of the jobs of shirts and all this kind of competitions because I felt like home again Every all the writers. I think that the return amazing job everybody wrote kind of Safe inside the limits but super good so that the by were amazing the the motivation super high and we could feel it in the in the backstage and everybody had a smile on on their face. You know one. That was a long time ago. That i i found that i saw that. So yeah just thanks to everybody. Who was there to let to to make it happen because that was super helpful for all of them. We really hope that did it keeps going. So what. Can i say about the night of the trump symbolic for me. It was the first night of the trump show. I've done and it was super thick and i really having feeling like proper rockstar standing in the middle of the stadium. Were having to crowd. All around us. The noise they're doing is motivating us in was so sick. Also seeing free someone's across again lost time so it wasn't twenty eighteen or something and now realised again that they are freaking maniacs and those jobs are just twice told us hours twice as long and it was really impressive. Impressive also seeing the double-deck flip for the first time life for me from luke common was really impressive. i liked the format. Actually it was something you because normally you have just runs. And that's it and the best run wins and now it's like the nation thing which was pretty sick in my opinion Yeah i had a good time. The mountain bike. Riders were super cool. The ethnic is terrific. But i didn't hang out too much for them. So i don't know but they seemed likely should guys emphatically. I missed the party would love to go party if you guys and yeah it was a hell of a show and i think it's also supercooled that now mountain bikes bit more going into the show because we are. We can do more tricks our bikes. We've like tail whips spins and rotations which is not really possible. The motorcross part. The chumps are way smaller. So a good mixture. you know. There's the crazy big sand guys on the motorcross and swift some crazy organizations. So what's hell of a show. And i hope we can be part of a new show. The next ones and yeah. If you've ever been to one and it's in your town you should definitely check it out. It's worth it piece.
Wasser - verwirbelt, nicht gerhrt - mit Friedrich Hacheney
"So mali guinea mitt mine. Cost me when someone or and hiding it is. I'm not leap links. Tieman from yarn. When small august mom basel vietnam nipping tamers minus or and gets murky high basel to enact. Atc and find understandable or some differs ecology inevitable muscle and hobby express. Pop nine discuss angle arden and then my identity. Vata christie bike calmed on. Soi is steph quickly. And i actually ruin for the two when when wonder how well so stars i when god come on how night cruises the show in your own country. Okay into kinds as allies wound up on package journal often now. Alcudia will nepal dynasty my loudoun performance in z al-montazah indiscretion to colonel not damaged Knowledgeable often from england up on glass heavy from just leave him as is obviously own been falls on my concern as it's it was internet in my phone into or and ez sony. Ken how does he could shefty come on in for by owned once is truly to quote washed in beyonce's invites for don pocket before her name uneven scaled might nominate them. You not listen to law mcchrystal's some guilty studio album Is there. I'm gonna bus Shaved give me naturally Eligible medeva physique classic on Ugly even miguel Topics mocatta The bottom score in concealing from fossil material albums in because Holidays pound but because of our offense was missed moods. The specifics intended to when i'm hanging onto league Availables intensity tape clift to the also bus michel a four contesting for senior xijiang this data mining as shame. His mental was as jimmy deposited on college. College also initialled surroundings on an college to andrews tufa. Annandale hormone does is my snow for senior on these. Two african doesn't it ought to be some anguish distant visit miles and as as louis in lipstick a young father and and be on dollar lucile off of alba up was international film. Mutational alleged a man. I'm desserts in the yussel Clashed on the end. It's not shown. I in for alan Available and olivia does that taboo global other fine. I anton global niche gen z than yesterday Stomach meant atanas. Massey Also dopamine the mouse. It's it's i think it is professor all the cap not with truly immediately at kazini. An annuity sealants been done. I understand how the eastern midst stick chaffee hob tunica decent but also feeder compactor Indiana achieve admitted seen petit. Vitamin victim and negative attrition domestic. Now it's up us under if is as iten fuel top of as when moslem all kind of niche when bruce that's a measure to gershon zinc with coffee also owned. It's been a puzzle. We just rent issue only sued year earn best equality checks that i need from from this. It what's your own at the self using conic behind the missing visits an infant book. Nine i intact yet. Dementia can weeklong to a huge. Don't you wanna talk on yom naturally shabazz. Nuts showed budded a sacrifice. Now lasted as long as the unisphere the einste- atiku tell leaks. The speed alcon is all in the my side to good. Also this a done. Im- eventually Zeke if we've benchley makes suspension Golden lager saukville edens klag behold as clink master class and incredible asset management. All over in eden fire i bossa. His team becomes Hot goats at sleep on in in a in a. Let's begin to heal combine the to name the content in school. Doubts ayla into contact me nuts. He'll have brewed in plug. This mamba i indiana to comb. No use it once fuel and this woman Often about it covers on that su su vassal bus as common. It's my front flash boss. Atkinson unresolvable lighting constitute as the deep to show roman. When you might have to own can escape stockholm does he's the spousal veto perfect when In the vehicles lose the coke in does muscle than this talk. Yeah the delighted in golden long dusty As has been off the i'd nevada. Dominic is in eagles. Finance wasn't talented lightens Hot among all mahim iman also millions. National isn't low-fare eyeing human octane on fourteen. Yeah From ireland by wichita flashing a thirty in the national hockey look standard findings. It's cited for how rules In on to call the side raza food in fan schneider. Dot com impact is adding unit or shut Up against the public ulan. Boozy even the fuss over. Calm spider Beaten will fucking ice launch snake. I not beasley shortstop in toggle. Always know probably modding made them. I'm gonna fall of the then may it. Sawn leap lose muscle through one's name. English salute your ignition lives middle sign the and bhutia women as an issue. It will give us lydon's live blues quasi toward us but this is kinda mail or those ends this little yellow. Not liking jaw dealership is why dot com Oc businessmen to the This again play in the process inaugural now knows it wouldn't be nothing streaming oak in eden. He's nuts. Lia avoid lot of this little beckett report. Lack washing auchan psyched. Eat pasta shonan in each by is aside is in alaska in by restaurant waiting for which allen the who from big intensity hullabaloo when he Guebuza is pushed off exit of also home the default on your motza yet by this and similar speed topics in lakhpat tested. Nageeb all on the. Em he also in them on vasa inequities yet common. Then i talked about the vaccines schnell. Follow behind us but not let me tell us for lens comes from an muscle of us. His mom than that's indicative. Stop them on lying in lincoln. Negative that's that's what he's gonna do for sternness from these clues class long but the rule and quander fuseco of eden comedies four push these extremist edelman and then global global in sydney. Eddie johnson putin in his natural causes taipei. Typing signed. Listen any collusion standing. Before you gonna offer besser indeed ten asking and stuff excellent to joining this last class. That lasted that Implicit before often in lausanne blacks. I dated dig mortar. I'd montana kenniston football us out an automatic. Do nami mighty of your own or do nominee future to the asa. Akiva is interesting collision Unsealed bus is logger Lucile houston hot. Mia stopping being Mammon as the scientist. I was more to shock to mutate hung up on diesel mortgage activitated even the would stop onslaught As you give them as a newsroom. Sphere skied skikda stockholm slacker. Nothing to lose and on all star and imbued in detail nine soclean clean by helped us among autosomal top top. Let me let mosman has become the leash and heightened. The amish wasn't when i from the reserve in the nine done in our community at mawson liberals basel princeton new stuff. Excellent agnes convicts an in your email us at enough to this degree of iniquitous giftable come with an h bus. Oliva cliff wants the line on nevada's Has this height each all against he could mean fiddler and composer. We'll get he's of either done in a humorous deeming island busta couldn't have also often skipped some pressure. Latins nasa expands evenly company an organic on that fifty lafayette one couldn't also apply the A leading the inequities illness last louis bonded these little be above hong kong specific udalls flat. Bob busy pupils bonds invited the lead of protest inequality heated one sneak. She's housing minal un That's movies science to placate. Gets this yet. A russell kills more to leaking vessel vitamins by the also item. Kinda save money talk on electric vehicle. You niklas aymen's from a douglas watch neck yet. Despite all after four hundred block nonstop on a by my father's line it gets neom feed highest by subcommittee. Most of us are is cloudy. Orca bus call called nichols casualty. Nominee cut in vasa hobby. I needed to act the cba Lucile chopped deep attorney. The marge's on mumbles need whereas Kelly gifting twenty on lasted twenty woman's oncoming country at autism decisively about lindsay from outside fun also depleting the looks and you can come in and sandra by is ending. Udon talk your enemies. The market in nominates one her smallest lounge. Let's law be announced and launched nonce This be greek folk folkloric mallets must club is highest than in auckland. Us zappala was on. This doesn't hold. It doesn't come is in the entire number. Just absolute this enough little student as differential hood so many so offering not cool music dot com. And i and i also must unsown for sheeting and higher. Cool are we on. Fire was his mitten shortstop too much medical research gender. So the for example the is almost guided off not indymedia medicament. Out of the forbidden informacion gets the shots. Felt like all fifty of eslava with incompatible an unconscious. i time i couldn't this yields Lot is in formats your advice. These income up to embed if available touched oil bullish on all stacked notes. India is scheduled not not not museum of bbs name kayaked that on on the glide uh-huh exceed in the us in be cooking onto hoopoe plaza. Team must feel is space on my mind as above the amish placed on his wall. Cloudy this out of a t would get the meal from us. But waiting from onto on affinity glenda bicoastal. This was doesn't cycle tae-shik the talia info monsoon flash our economic. And you smell stay in the try. Each adam that's the The scope he fossil because want movie his spunk on ice cliffs titled of different Movie at Hope this in montcalm. Bossa the kinda. Suzy toxin almost love of day class. Study building that he will equal nashville to a as a hub. Zeal wallaby take is seat in understanding. Now knife muscle least beloit. Bassett intensely attendance stutz. Woo been dome louche. Doesn't eat off clinton on name that they hadn't either by these Willie mcknight now so formal. Console the idiots card from dunkin' other sons ago. Y'all doesn't miss on these immoral to through of saying this site isolde and robots boo feeling. Lloyd lloyd you celebrate. These young dame's info on across offer without that lies in is the does model also sir. What an infamy young female inflammation boom amid of clip of spousal shift took issue with all helpful to the to the into designing interest basel for to when the infamous soon insurrection potentially and yami as admit not motorcar jemele show nicholson odorless internet gibson's which not medial Body in victim donna taking rookie onto negative. Yeah i was all. Da got the lead. It's not not miss yet. Massa's item to inada. Who all this fuss. Evita's infamy m associate athletic week daily As his immobile hot ya kind of island off. tie to innate zeal us as i am psyched pasta infant. He is these increments you know. When these informants ulan de couldn't Optimize our of pig vogosa tunes name. thin client and then my computer stodden spicer basic monday now. Hospital before almost is high of life beyond infamous omos goes on is contested for life. As in long as this intensive we'll real i'll craw period ounce cast throughout these young rose incline roba fund funding mutual engineer monarch now from all tax. That's his new jersey client double global comedy from one of would have shown the does well. That's an 'cause tire from crawl. Ozzy costs review fall delight beside him on command. Cloth and ten is infused water to seek him before shot to get it will come to sixty School awesome feeling which talking to all of us much to has oh eba indicators yoga daughter yet to speedtest unit miles oscar to give. That wished the hotel between near you plan. Tia tia wiki. Movies kindness muscle to give a sheet and a viga for she About deif available to walk schmuck pixel mostly tier also This is the center duggal master. Is this your whole Tambi second much talk water wa team thousand would be on polluter who also eat bought. An enormous schwinn declined. Fallen number. Clumsy octa Is does he struggle at cnn. But i also other venza gets into the he's available. Commas envied us nine. The god who non divide that she often end up. I on could could. Zd took to wilson over by these inclined. But he's a client google common. Nobody come on east Obviously just the of energy koftov twenty john housing and the other out fundus for global muscles is livid you got to one loss. Mid item kleiner new flaw on the positive to on the show up to all indian basel house. Gatorade vassal the Disease in the guns and cuccia spill us through while finds don't offer cash and defect on june. These biggest quincy on a few few thousand and neva Doesn't think it's a site that taken tree when i it's an omega i. It's such mobile cindy. Md top just the off his nano cavities against find a title. I'm i sean can be Give then excess of design. I don off all is opened up to a us of why the is what i'm saying is about unseen crowd combined with whilst on social and so i was fuji carnage few of us from senior took too much. Yup todd a vehicle you store the bins wanna talk on the imams. The talks with the the bush allston vostok. If you'd see them be marked down my company uncon- it comes into the ira old bacteria don Yesterday millionaires i watched off in walks by little viva slice. To tyler is all. Isn't that outlawed as a doll. I'll spotless lamb this general leg in the house as he has always talkin pets. But we'll from guys in foci. Who should up mazda goods onto a market in charlotte. The new audit doctor inside of fatigue. Reliability muslim would jonathan. Ya rush on named chelsea nichols our of our minimum finished up mentioning the talk show up. Cars are an puzzle you wilderness hamas oldest son david city field visor on companion. Is your english crudeness presently on each spending big inch the tiger against todd. You've always has intensified in the fidelity the it's also has The don alighted archive is who He'll tie the who'd and us on a here in england will be the dot does To compensate you in comfortable by by expected you ought also be the slogan hexagon alabaster lack of yet. You topics Okay easter here's by this evening. Who is also is You just end rituals size. Any as lost of the mia x from crop down baked the hottest not really a competitive Up the john as a stack. Both acteal dies in brussels in plink on from all glenda amount dot twins dot com yeti No non biological aspect of us. All on bulletins i listen i listen to the effect lifting giving Mind he's also those unfamiliar solid ball on against wasn't on full-time. These ads interest become digits. Irish dancer the concrete forced and it might have been out of upside again on monday rider because comments movements to wash their crazy too much. The medals red sign lou invasion fortune. You can keep up along either As he flees industrialist anant kind of the food a hunt about all ultimately the name. Okay gulag up folk eight to just eight matia bossa by for that scenes equipment the fair or not Or the bustle loyalty Mukhlis in underdog at at bundy's vassal municipal fits daga all team austral village leading set up in. What's joan them. I spent hype Anoc line mu come up on your patio owned easy Would be a different of gets under the tub ahead knocked the data than beauty. Naturally indians did up here to the left. So when i conduct austin austin and the averaged other lung this is leading us off. I always bacteria in buxton that woulda Talk ourselves one of our shop and the guy since its unequaled into who call this move from four twenty duston women. It's hutton's is monumental demanded fiction for economic chinese for moody wildy visit autumn bush. I and affect give. Tom wodel was the best equality from the just. Get eight nine the On these to this start i. That's why our biggest you for rebels into missed only Side rate side which stint autumn alabama asia on availables intensity tate on washington big antipathy essence lots of opted by boom to defend by interplay Scientists time you'll be anthony lol side and he lost sight. It's all the feed me. Mafia inc on me or you who tests plan b. e. e. optimum the summit. It does he. He's an optimal loft on the should soupy mccutchen inch low against the buffoon who has no kind of the house. On puzzling. i knew on blue beam. Not out of modest does not want to change chided phenomenon out when it comes up winning by the moslem youth. Do struggle a coupon tonight as moment fun yet she'll off-site and test the suit with our normal is an update. Why am i. Try to teach up for mediums from use moving commerce does reconstitute foster was also flash. It's all of us. Calvin flashing incident. Thousand soften rookies titan austral. alibi Sneaks look i n fast food come on line field often. Aena unbeaten institutions nazi. Taking a little bit addicted lost concentration on He's will punted a when that happened along against auto to refutable as be machine. I alighted with us india machine. Nine up st at a hash. Not of these Tallish each tweet nine. When he says ashoka let w list on i've also and i i'm a i'm chapel. But that's not on oil that happened social also and asking mitchum teams of inconvenient. Come as early as roma's you in office. Some unfruitful offender daag ta and tweeted in model interest so as a auction become. Solve them through focused on wbz coughlan. When loyd rush off moskovsky xinjiang. The science off of not not pick up vision buys them coble. only over. New food is concern. Topple and cohen an awful stores. One hundred ninety soon has not screener. Launcher model is a good gets a gun. Sign disconnected all been fishing. Large of Negatives young skaters naga on seoul from tunisia. Anatomy to odyssey stopping me. Just out also concentrate on them. Others guitarists could then most nomads. Look to come off. The cannot be august and into santa p guts. Lila's fiscal the on site outed grundig pious. Become a hot issued. Swifty buzzer leading some of my saga or biden on the don t. It'd be too much in just woke and by the ganga guidance muscle mortgage and start the off. You slobby vice d- by mr stop point. I'm going to iceland fitness muzzle. plastic fleischer. We don't watch even took. I need new. Also find events on is your muscle tarnishes. Ignition of medicare trustees another. Y'all all season disney. This country be similar. Blatant just kind of movie on convoy here. it's not fully my invasion. Beijing are much too often and concert lasted so he took on one hand. I have a for young helps had to nisar farm are will and mia muzzle our window. Mahala signs on or off by lawyer. Who makes us sprinters tucson national rookie measure following. Give out follow jim. Volatile flight muscles even own sake Celaya fun fouled amid ended up on the beach one-timer highest as big as leaked odyssey moon's team. Oh is this effect. Dr not to dwell This was also mentioned biden or slam. Nachson wasn't mental plane In his yacht busy garfield of spots Blow mentioned dita's of spades on the cloud unbeliev east and ina talk a bit slow any you so i'm on task mitt your own end size La- bubba kush netted dot v. Would be all know me know me. A limiting. he didn't will consume fat on these. He has all of moon badly Sooner than feta mitch nam. Yummy simplisafe lever lever younger leaked to the suicide All jelly out here. If don't yeah when. I was a little pin run. A the general cut wounds stings by view. Spices assault vannice wants. I'm best initiative model stagnant. Immune system instruct moment in alaska as we have a slight People mandate Mitch designer designed and got the tide hash on Bielan As niki wouldn't fail one. Beverly bidding does the feet of young hob tean five g onto tencent onto your song in the must not feel in allen in need us Woody common office on these. Meantime owned assist garage pitched as Wouldn't that lies off the social Reaching talk with this indicates ghetto vassal. A it's not really also. I can indeed Tehmina good one. We don't ask us on that movie. Now gordon gordon of business some of the oscars taligent you between concrete. Default was mafia scooters. Grandma asking for your fire. Districts affects them for. The moon is as all up over for english chinese economy Positive of on mission owned our hopped on his youngest one on these reality and it can be it such as a hedge gallon. These young the have to come out bustle at yadda Initially hit us mission in the studio team negativity won't off on influence. Your became the about all invited ally octa to walk wyndham. Beat you put cost education for a seat office kind of article two thousand and by facebook instagram to my fear a facebook To all to have a foodie yet always a Watch the stayed in. Quotes album nets on zee. Couldn't even out. Payment is when you buy usual omelettes under long season finding a mentor. Coach quincy behalf. Whatever then i'll consult by amazon then finding different ways to hoopoe. John hats as out on meet. You doing visor. What caused internal. It's been going on several guns bush. Now i'm david. Cone cling done doesn't look down going to be happening in schmidt. I'm not fussy. My i don votes on one's own guns and business on the wall. How do you want to pigeon. Zuma's was one hundred off albeit His online at india. We just attic commun- That gives us a pass. Who nobody's turner with an i if you don by in orange from benin esma alice gordon. Talk to them belong Basel the podcasts. Mom augustine and to get might i. Let's love alice. Kudos jones one hand in hand is that in is unjust.
"When you're next. But you have three favorite complain topics whether forward and language if you come from mutiny foot might even trump whether the next five minutes were not be dedicated to complain about but eating habits of british. People munching crisps on the train for breakfast in washington down. We coke by the way. Welcome to the podcasts. Were an italian tries to make a better job than jamie and marine eaten and british cuisine after so many years so much effort to my boyfriend site and so much goodwill on my side have become sort of a champion of the british cuisine. in italy. i can praise beak times. The baker taught the suffering buns from cornwall. And above all anything with who. I could send my soul for some rupert engine. My soul comes very cheap. And the love. A sunday roast. I'm learning to make a decent yorkshire pudding which should count for at least twenty points on my citizenship application. My boyfriend intern is better than me. A making green paster we whatever basel. We manage to grow on our window sale. I had to teach him how to avoid over in boston by his quick liner and taught his mom to make fresh bus now with the past machine. Food is may be where once national identity sense of the most. I've worked as a kitchen porter. Nicotine and one day i was happy. Chomping haves and full of basil. I stopped and inhaled. that devine's man michalik looked at me across the table and said disgusting. I know i'm and herbs a part of my smell bouquet which stirs emotion and memories basel sage rosemary bay leaf and even pine tree. And i know. I made it iranian when it comes to choosing vegetables and fruit at the green grocers watermelon. You knock on it melon. You smell it. I once attended biology seminar when the lecturer asked how do you know when tomatoes ripe use quizzed them gentleman. I was about to jump out this cream. you don't touch them. You smell them. I recommend it was a clever thing to do amongst said biologists but what does the british know about tomatoes. I normally cook italian at home. And i must have to cooked meals per day. Excellent is not a property. If i'm feeling really nostalgic for home. I will crave polenta that kind of cornmeal porridge. We cook in the northeast of We used to have it with anything when we were really poor. Our potatoes basically. I am a sweet tooth worse than that. I usually have a sweet breakfast. Which means bread and jam forage with chocolate or a piece of cake. Yes you have me write a piece of cake in italy. We have cakes called breakfast cakes. Sort of sponge renault feeling they a benefit to be dunked in our catholic. My boyfriend i introduced me to the full english breakfast. And now i love it. Baked beans and all may comfort. I before tea. When i'm really under the weather and want to treat myself. Another kind of three is fish and chips. Although i'm picky with chips and we end up going to the same selected cheapie all the time no sold nor vinegar. Please mushy peas. He has placed and of course gravy. I'm a prog northerner that's move onto desserts. I won't go into the endless discussions. We have in our household about beds custard and italian aches by metamorphoses into british passes through cakes to one day i was craving for victoria sponge and i decided to bake one. I mean it just four ingredients you check them in and you use one makes him a piece of cake literally once they baked it. It was as hard as cardboard by buffet. Asked me how i made it. Did you stop much. Seen no i use butler. But you got the sugar no granulated sugar and did you sell flan. Number flower is the fine. At least the x-ray right eventually we made it again together now. I'm proud. victoria sponge baker. One more thing before it cleared the table as you ever heard of chocolate challenges that those chocolate not little things spring cova cakes. Like little warms. Yes shirkers sprinkles way. My friend told me that called chocolate challenges. Maybe it's just a family word. I'll ask his mum issues. Ever heard of them know maybe is disa- thing his none used to say when the children to use sprinkles on we. I always thought that they will chocolate. Charlie's sprinkling toper ciardi thing. Never heard you saying. Ch an i've h with you. I've never heard you all them chocolate. Something you picked up somewhere anyway. I have decided what my stage name will be chocolate. Charlie wash the space. My taste has definitely changed over these years of life in britain but so has british people. S- taste it's so much easier to find good italian restaurants and food in shops. When i was leaving. Scotland i became addicted to i am pro. I mean how many people actually like. I am brew. This should be evidence enough. I'm battalion. I want my citizenship. Just for this next time minors.
Discovering Automation and AI Opportunities in Financial Services - with Christophe Makni of Basler Kantonalbank
"This is daniel fa- you're listening to the a in financial services podcast. We've covered a lot of topics over the last few years here in the eye and financial services podcast from use cases to trends to best practices for winning a roi but useful skill. That will never go out of style so long as ai is in the business. Mix is the ability to find a opportunities to identify places where ai could create real leverage and advantage and add value to a business and that is our focus of today's interview our guest this week is christoph mackney. Christoph is managing consultant for lean ai and automation at basler cantonal bank in basel switzerland. Christoph is also emerged plus member so we're glad to be able to have him on our show is someone who's also part of our community and this week with us kristoff breaks down some of his processes and kind of his lenses of thinking for identifying low hanging fruit opportunities for automation in the financial services. Space hopefully some of these lessons will be transferable to no matter what industry that you're in but i think christopher rich background in financial services will be relevant for anybody who's tuned into this particular show. We are grateful to have business. Leaders like christoph around the world using emerges ai use cases and best practices in their work as they lead ai chain become a catalyst in different interesting enterprises if you're interested in becoming an ai catalyst whether you're a consultant or someone looking to drive change from the inside of an enterprise consider joining emerge. Plus you can learn more about emerged blessing. Unlock our full. Ai use case library. Our ai whitepaper library and our complete list of ai. Best practice guides for finding ai opportunities building ai strategy and achieving ai roi and go to e. m. e. r. j. dot com slash p. One that's peers. And plus and then the number one e. m. e. r. j. dot com slash p. One and learn more about emerge plus without further. Ado let's fly into this episode. This is christoph- mackney of bossier cantonal. Bank you're on the ai in financial services podcast so christopher. I'm glad to be able to have you on the financial services show. We're talking about automation today. You have a proper background in automation in the financial services space. We're going to talk about where act. It's in but i want to talk first about how is automation. Thought about in the financial services space today efficiencies are so important. These companies are huge as so many operations going on. Why is automation efficiency so important. How do we think about it already. Kind of priante right so you know before. Ai automation is all about able to scale. You know you have lots of customer requests coming in and at some point you can classify that into simple requests and complex requests. When it's simple request where you don't need to think too much about the case just go and ultimate because that's the only way you can scale right now you know due to covy lots of that coming with request and we need to be able to deliver so you know standard automation comes really from the efficiency part where we want to be able to scale and ai. Come into the game where you want to be able to do even more thanks to automation and you know it seems like you know automation up until recently this would would mostly been through process improvement and then through. It right things that we could hard code if this that if this the nat send it through the system kind of go about it that way and so rethinking processes hard. Coding potential potential solutions and clearly. There's still a very important place for that right. A lot of a lot of automation efforts might not require any machine learning at all if we can figure out a rule and we can route something. Then that's that's great but hey is making us. Think a little bit differently. You know you're very close to this dynamic in this paradigm shift. What are those differences. What are those chain. What's the new way to think about automation now. Today i is part of the mix so when you enter into the arena. You have basically some new capabilities and you have to mix these new capabilities with existing technologies right so if you want to automate some really complex process you mix different tools. You still have traditional workflow engines and rules engines which is basically the rules. And the processes you were describing. You can do a little bit of if you have kind of a system which has no interface. And then you have to orchestrate all the things and have some algorithm learning to take decisions for you right and this is where you bring into. The game worked for engines to orchestrates the whole architecture. Some european box. You know if you have some old legacy system without an interface and using some machine learning to be able to better classify data that you get. Maybe you want to automate some process where you just want to ultimate the customer requests which are coming in you know. That's not something that you can code in. You need to be able to train you. Oh sierra system to classify that then that's the way to start some automation. We say. I got i got into this way to kind of nixon and brigitta to as we as we look at sort of opportunities for bridging kind of automation with with ai. Mixing these dynamics. And we've done some great interviews in the past about rpa then the transition for kind of m. l. enabled rpi. There's some corollaries enter right. Where we you know. We're going from more hard coded just thinking about the process to actual learning in the process. Where where there's a system in place that's going to be doing. Classification is going to be learning on the fly from human feedback So there's these this opportunity to level things up you talked before we started reporting about kind of digitisation as maybe a good place to talk about this. What are you seeing happening in digitisation. Also what do you mean by the term. Because i think it's a very broad term so we can define it and then dive into what the lessons are there so if we break it down at the end of the day you have lots of customer requests you know to process everyday so customers are coming to you because they want you product or they want to complain about something. They're using all the different china's right so they're coming with letter with some paper. We some phone calls emails. Whatever so you need to absorb that and to be able to provide the right answer at the right time. So this is you know from the physical world to the data and this is where machine learning east coming into place in order to digitalize all the inputs that you're getting classifying that and triggering the right process for the right request. Give you one example. You know if you want to. If you move the location you move from new york to boston. You don't want to write a letter to your bank. You just want to have you e banking on your mobile. Put your new address. Click and that's it and you expect that to be quite automated. So that's what you want to achieve like a self service opportunity for customers to be able to do what they want immediately. And to get an answer older steph which is easy that's something you can easily ultimat- and what it's that's why you have some human task force entering into the game to be able to provide the right service to the customer. Yeah so we. We had a previous about kind of the innovation process of being able to think through the right ideas that would drive results for for the company. It almost feels like that. Strong innovation background. That you have might also be pretty important for finding opportunities for automation because again it feels like there's so many right you know i'm thinking about a bank. We're talking a lot about customer service but good lord. I mean you know from from lending and mortgages to To hr in hiring to internal auditing before the big auditors. Come you know that. There's an almost unlimited number of things that we could potentially focused on for automation. What are what are good ways for leaders who you know. We've got an an exciting opportunities automation because we can think about process in. It hard coding ways but we can also think about how these new ai. Capabilities can unlock even further automation. Take that farther. So you know it's never been a more tantalizing time to kind of look at our processes. How do you recommend folks kind of survey the landscape and find those pockets. Where real opportunity could lie so he had to approach is the first one is to have a good understanding of your business processes. This really helps issue have kind of a process landscape where you see you call processes and where you can even measure your automation level. And then you can just have a heat map for you. Management where you can display deuce are like the fifty value streams this automation level. And this is why we have some automation potential. So that's the first heat maps that we are using. You know to work on the real stuff where we have some potential and the second thing for me is before you automate a process. Just you know. Make some due diligence to ensure that the process is really a good process so the first step of automating processes not automating the process but really try to challenge to process challenge making simple try to eliminate stuff from the past. Make it easy and once. It's you know my test would be asked a guy how he takes a decision if the guy says you know. I'm able to solve this case in one second. Then it's something you can automate without any problem. If the person is not able to describe you in less than a second how they solve the problem. Maybe you want to go after you know. Maybe you don't want to do that as the first test. Maybe want to to do that later on this is this is a really interesting lens to look through because i think it's extremely important christoph for for our listeners enterprise leaders and even consultants who might be listening to. Of course you know not just go in with technology you know hammer and nail and okay. It's time to go but to assess properly to cut away the fat and then to find the real opportunities and you brought up two important points. I'm going to try to highlight. One is the idea of looking at our value streams looking at what's already automated at what level and it feels a little bit subjective to do that but but it's clearly very useful. We can see all the streams and one of them has a tremendous amount of. Let's say you know you know know nine out of ten kind of automation in another one has nothing. It's all zeros it's like we can see where the relative opportunities are. The heat map is a really fun idea. The second one is to go in first before technology and say well. What is this process. Are there ways we can cut out this step. We can simplify the step. We have things come in through one stream. Here have have simplify the decision that these people make. So you're saying that you know when it comes time to drill down think through that level first and then see what's left to handle with technology that might be the right fit for tech. Yeah and that would extend that was the first idea. So i have a three step process. The first step is challenged. The process simplifies standardized the process. That's the preparation of automation. Then you go into the automation itself and you knew what the end of the automation. You're not done because the third step is try to measure an improve continuously. The result of automation dot is what software vendors usually sell your robots. And you can automate. Only one step. But i want to be sure that i challenged my process. I automated and then i tried it and continuously improve it and that is kind of tricky. Yeah well you're right. It's tricky. And i can speak for some experience here helping pretty big financial services firms decide on vendors even the best vendors that have raised fifty million bucks sometimes. It's really hard for them to get hard benchmarks for measuring roi in part because number one. They're affecting a lot of different elements of the business number. Two sometimes they're only affecting one juncture of a workflow so there's a whole workflow in impact one part and it's really hard to pull out an extrapolate how much that one part affected the time reduction versus so many other factors. So it's it's hard to measure this stuff When you start to drill down and find those opportunities and you decide okay. We're going to double down here. We think this is a strong opportunity. It almost feels like they would have to be another whole deliberate effort to say. Wait a second guys. We're challenging this. We decided to go in. Let's think ahead of time. What is measurement gonna look like. I mean is it feels like it's probably its own step Yes and you to watch the things that you're describing is something that we are measuring and it's really not difficult to measure for one business process. What's the automation level. You know you can measure that and report that you management and what's the flu efficiency and you need to have some kpi's in place some kind of between management and you can just put that in front of them and show you know this is where we have the you know the highest potential. This is we save time and at the end of each automation project. You have to report to the stakeholders you know the efficiency that you have. And how much time have you saved. Thanks to the project. Thanks to automation you know. The transparency is the key the transparency under communication to the stakeholders. That's excellent. okay cool. Yeah i like this so we can get our heat map out. We can think process. I and that's with your challenge step and then when we decided to go in for automation we're going to also be prepared to have a strong accountable way to do measurement and hopefully to see him over over time of course machine learning is potentially what's going to help us. He those improvements over time. If we can have a fraud model that we can consistently provide feedback to get less false positives less false negatives hopefully desi that or or you know some automated responses to customers. We can have a higher success rate for those low hanging fruit questions people basking in different languages. That might be another another place. So so i can see serve how that circle might might continue there. Are there any other. Yeah go ahead. Good what he got. If i can add that leela. It's pretty tricky. Once you have to you to process you still need to have some people in production. Having a look at the process execution in all the to keep improving the model. I'd algorithm and to make sure that you improve the process in production. Lots of people. Do you know like the other way to put robots in production. The robots performing. But they're not improving the process over time and you. Have you know zero improvement. So you want to be sure that you keep improving your staff you can automate using you know work for engines or robots or whatever you have and once production keep working on that. Actually you never done. It's a never ending story. Yeah of course. Yeah so yeah having that kind of. I don't know what we'd want to call it like. It's almost like an automation project owner of some kind. Who can get really still solna like a process on. Yeah who's who's really accountable for making sure that measurement is right making sure we're improving things in the right direction and i really like your your idea about challenging the process. I i think is so critical because even when we look at you know. Ai projects and you've probably seen something similar kristof. We'll see i projects where it's almost like we're using ai. In a place that's almost building technical debt in kind of handling things with more complexity than would be required. You know sometimes for you used. Ocr in previous reference socio. It's great and there are some instances where we can't get around it where we have vendors from a dozen countries sending us invoices and paperwork. We're never going to get them all to send it in the same template right. We don't control these other companies. That doesn't work like that. So so we're going to need to have a system that drinks in but sometimes you know we've seen. Oc are used for for internal communication stuff where people are sending reports and other things. it's like. Hey guys none of using ocr. Why don't we stop having paper transfer between these departments doctor and have one day to handle this report and let's not use esi. Are there right. Yeah so the first step of an. Oc project is trying to get rid of the incoming documents. Yes that's pr- step you know. Yeah and so well. That's a great. That's a great point to hammer home. As as we we get to. The end of this interview is that probably the. Oc cr one is just one example but almost every ai project could probably serve your challenge idea upfront. Because there might just be a way to get rid of this challenge without thinking tech. I at all and i think that's a ubiquitous lesson. Any other closing notes. We've got folks listening in who work within companies of all sizes and. They're excited and interested in automation. Obviously listening all the way through on this this episode. You know any other quick takeaways. You shared some great tools and ways of thinking anything else you cheer for leaders like yourself who want to get better at automation. So i think at some point you need to be able to scale in a very efficient way. I tend to focus on all the stuff which is easy. That's what i want to ultimat-. And then through the i want to be able to provide efficient. You know more tools to my experts so that they can take better decisions. Thanks to so. I don't want to automate super complex. Processes are just want to have the engine being a good help to my expert to take the best decision possible for the customers. That's our approach. And that's something that all. The small companies can do and leverage existing technologies. Always try to understand what you're doing when you embark into a journey tried to really understand the tools and otherwise it's kind of difficult to convince you stakeholders to invest into this kind of projects and also have to have a basic literacy and engage stakeholders into showing them to results and making sure that they understand what you're talking about because you know that would be the good way where you will be able to scale that process internally. Yeah i like it okay. Cool so instead of eating the whole whale so to speak you know. What are those opportunities where we think we really could win some budget support. What are those opportunities really. Couldn't move the needle and maybe beginning nair even. If we're not the biggest enterprise might be a way that we can come shuffle forward. So i like that. I think that's a strong takeaway kristoff. I know it's all we for time. But thank you again so much for being able to join us on the show. Thank you don my pleasure. So that's all for this episode of the ai in financial services. Podcast big. thank you to christopher being able to join us and thank you to you for listening all the way through to the end of this episode. I appreciate you being a subscriber of the show. Hopefully if you're listening today you're also subscribed you can find us on spotify. You can find on soundcloud apple. Podcasts is probably the most popular place where people find. The i in financial services podcast. We'd also like to have you as an email subscriber. She can not only get all of our latest financial services podcasts as soon as they go live but our other interviews are other coverage and any of our new use cases that were consistently sending out multiple times a week to our emerged subscribers e. m. e. r. j. dot com up at the top right. There's a button that says subscribe sufi liked to stay ahead of the curve and get all the latest insights that we still from smart folks like kristof then be sure to subscribe in addition to being a listener. That's all for now. I look forward to catching your next month. Here in the a in financial services podcast.
Troublemaker by Austin Hope 13
"From inch wider dot com with another wine on the snowy february the day. I think we had twelve months of play now. We've had three months of snowstorm. What's next locusts. No fish falling from the sky. But i'm happy. Because i got wind that i really liked. It's the always picked the bottle. Look at it. and there's not too much to read here troublemaker. By austin hope to blend grenache move adra which are the ingredients of gsm blend from the southern rhone valley along with zinfandel at the teat. Surat just to add some spice and some different flavors. And the interesting thing about this. The reason why it's thirteen it's you know. Rather than date. Actually from the two thousand sixteen twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen vintages. All rapes in here have been in oak forest as a minimum of fifteen months and as much as twenty seven monks and american french open perils. Now i got a feeling that holy small portion of it was twenty seven months. That's not really how redlands at this price range are. Constructed twelve dollar red blend is made to be twelve dollar red blood. But here everything's fifteen. No can more seems to be old school. They don't actually spell it out. They don't save how they came about all these things but it reminds me now back in the old days when a wine winery they would make a forty dollars for name and what they didn't use that they put it in A twenty dollar glen us for that. They've they've blended everything leftover and made that into a wind field after ten. That's before all the wine brands came around. Everything's very targeted. And just everything would work their way down until you until the very end with is blended altogether and the and you get the interesting for the price every year. And that's what this seems to be. Except i don't think it is exactly that they seem to have put a lot of effort into finding the different grapes going to different locations. Most of it. I think almost fifty percent of its from fossil rebels and then the rest of it's from Roy grundy susan valley a little. Bit lodi monterey. They went out of their way to buying a lot of these different drapes. When you have thirty years of winemaking experience in basel. Robles need a lot of people. Make a lot of friends and you have access to the grapes and here. They seem to put it to good use. The the reputational possible. Robles is that they don't care what anybody else does. They make the wine the way they wanna make it. And this troublemaker. By hope hope valley wines seems to be an example of that. Because you're don't find a lot. This kind of wind destructed it to go through all this. I mean it's not easy finding all these things and it's not easy making it a bit of wine that's been an affair for twenty. Seven months blended with. Oakland's been oprah fifteen months usually when you're making a blend everything's been enough for the same amount of time or you know or close to it or you're actually putting no with some up here. You're getting some diverse winds going on making something out of it and it tastes delicious. I never grade one us. Remind by experience is my experience in the whole website is designed for tell people while and get your own experience with one. The of don't listen to what other people tell you why didn't great to somebody else said som- winds break. You love them. And i actually love this one. Don't trust me try it yourself another slip. It's big it's bold. it's flavorful. But it's got an allen never gets to barnes got enough sure enough rougher edges to go along with their rights. Fruit doesn't really nice job. It's just i wasn't. I wasn't really in a mood. Do y viewers blah and drink it of and kicked me right up what you need when you're on the third week of snow and temperatures so hopefully else up there is Drinking wine and peeling so Thinking easy heap achieve audio. Talk to everybody and a couple of days bye bye.
Dirty Money [S4, E19]
"Hello and welcome to hell tomorrow. I'm peter sector and i'm mooney jonathan. Once again navigating the rough seas of global politics. We do twice a month and today. The for waters are high in the world of tax evasion and tax avoidance money laundering and other financial crimes by the rich and powerful the pandora papers recently uncovered by the international consortium of investigative journalists which worked with more than one hundred forty media organizations on its biggest ever global investigation journalists around the world exposed. Nearly twelve million twelve million leaked confidential financial records. The data reveals hidden wealth tax avoidance and in some cases money laundering by some of the world's rich and powerful and some of it like money. Laundering is clearly illegal but not all. These practices are in for example like tax avoidance and hiding information about dozens of mansions around the world is definitely questionable for every batman for politicians of course even patriotic but more than exposing the individuals behind these secret bank accounts. I think peter. The pandora paper showed how blurred the lines are between legal and illegal financial practices. And that's what will focus on today. We'll be joined in a minute from switzerland by market which so clearly described illegal gold business on l. tomorrow sometime ago today will discuss these financial somersaults but also the darker phase multinational criminal organizations that operate within the same financial system and of course is always the geopolitical implications of these financial crimes wounded just like the predecessor publications the panama papers and the paradise papers and twenty seventeen the pandora papers exposed these financial maneuverings and corruption at the highest levels and they show that the grey areas between legal havens and crime is just getting murkier and murkier and murkier and most importantly they showed that the people most empowered to end these financial crimes actually the most invested in prolonging it for their own benefit many of those exposed and the pandora papers are politicians more than three hundred thirty of them from ninety countries including thirty five current and former heads of state and their lavish lifestyles are made possible by exploiting the laws of the berry nations. They're supposed to serve so. It's no wonder moody that people are furious. And they feel that they are being ripped off so ensure ultima fashion. We're going to connect these financial misdealing to politics and democracy itself as the economist. Thomas bickel noted even long before the panama papers broke many of these unethical. financial maneuvers. Just enhance the appeal of ethno nationalist. Politicians who promised a crackdown on the league corruption and you. It's no wonder the popularity of radical populist from both the left and the right is going to grow as the unethical actions of political leaders of royalty of ed's state becomes more widely understood absolutely the political implications are really clear especially the how they feed on populism but just like the publication of the panama. Papers a few years ago this led to a flurry of banking regulation. The pressure now. After the pandora papers is on these financial enablers these financial network lawyers real estate agents investment counselors who are not yet fully scrutinized and definitely are not regulated. But you know. Don't sit around and wait for new laws to come to rescue. Because they really can't be created quickly enough or made comprehensive enough to affect meaningful change and even more concerning is the fact that money laundering is using the exact same group of financial enablers drug trafficking gambling. Extortion fake goods cybercrimes often committed by sophisticated. transnational criminal organizations are channelling their prophets. Exactly the same financial systems at thrive in the shadow. But let's not be super pessimistic. Peter although tech has been a facilitator of financial crimes for example there's growing evidence that technology itself and public opinion are shifting the balance against the elite use of offshore financial service industry so as not only feeding populism it's also feeding regulation and oversight so let's hear from day about the debate about how new technology may become the center of uncovering and regulating billions of tax evasion. Dollars muni with. You were still reserving some optimism. So the pandora papers have shown that those most empowered to end these shady practises won't really do anything about them because it benefits them. Most and i agree that laws are neither fast enough nor comprehensive enough to address these issues but there is one glimmer of hope and that's technology. Technology has made it so much. Easier to impose reputational costs onto these politicians by facilitating the disembarkation of incredible amounts of data to journalists and the public. The last five years have revolutionized the possibilities for whistleblowers to maintain anonymity using tools like pgp encryption allowing them to deliver huge quantities of data from offshore while protecting themselves from retaliation five years on. We still don't know the identity of john doe who leaked to panama papers nor of the person of people who leaked paradise papers for years ago. That's remarkable in an era of digital surveillance and it will inevitably encourage more whistle blowing so these types of financial maneuverings contribute to dangerous levels of economic and political inequality and with advances in technology that would allow insiders to remain anonymous while pulling back this veil of secrecy that make so much of offshore corruption. Possible so. I think we still have a chance against the stem it corruption and this suggests that whistleblowers are not only emboldened now but also may be cooperating internationally to do what loss cannot do holding accountable the most wealthy and powerful people in the world in the court of public opinion. But what do you think. We'll technologies saved today or are we doomed to be ripped off by these elite politicians posing as populace tweeted ultimate podcasts. And let me know. Ted that's a great introduction for bringing in our guest right now mark. Pf is professor emeritus of criminal law at the university of basel switzerland and president of the basel institute on governance. A research policy institute. He himself founded the help combat public and private sector abuses of power his extensive careers illegal expert at defense lawyer judge. A compliance advisor include prominent roles on the international stage in the fields of money laundering and bribery. He's also researched corruption at fifa the international soccer organization and other organizations that have been a key force in developing the swiss anti money laundering rules. Applying gold refineries over the past seventeen years mark booth has authored and edited thirty four books in the field of economics and organized crime corruption money laundering and criminal law. Mark it's such a pleasure to welcome you back on ultima. Thank you for joining us. Creativity you to start with the recently published to pandora. Paper is exposed elaborate financial operations. That are meant to evade or avoid taxes by the world's rich and powerful. What what do you make of all these regulations. And and i guess help us figure out how much of this is irregular and how much of this is downright illegal has quite a tough question you know. The whole thing is not new. What we're seeing in pandora papers. When i worked with joe stiglitz in panama after the panama papers broke we saw executive exactly the same type of thing. It's always a mix of tax evasion. You have some organized crime. You also have clicked the crowds hiding the money. And then you have. Let's say the mind type of issues. Will somebody trying to disinherit their siblings. It's not nice but it wouldn't be the macro crime thin and what do you. What do you think are the consequences of this such a large leak as the one that we've seen. Well i would hope that finally Those countries who've been steadfastly refusing to change their laws with now stop to move. But i'm i'm a bit in doubts about that. I can tell you maybe. A bit later. In the show about switzerland and how The adviser of fighting back. At the moment so i would hope that finally this new league would help make make bring about changes. The difficulty really is. I think you pointed to it. What proportion is really illegal and nobody can tell you that if the the only question you could ask this why would people want such a high degree of confidentiality. Pay so much for confidentiality. Why why do they have to hide something. And then i would say like ninety percents have something to hide. That is really problematic. One of the things that we've been talking about in the show. Is these the same financial enablers that also help illicit organizations whether they are traffickers of drugs or traffickers of humans traffickers of gold or stolen goods. I mean it's the same financial process. Isn't it absolutely you see. It's merely a technique and you can use that technique for all sorts of purposes creating anonymity. The technique is relatively simple. It's what we call a structure and a structure is made up of shell companies typically a british virgin islands. You buy the in the panama papers. Komo suck fonseca here. You've got fourteen such providers and then you open bank accounts for these shell companies cyprus malta and then have in the middle of the network sitting the real the real batty dna blur who is typically a be beaten Geneva and london. Or maybe new york i don't know and actually the lawyer is the key the key figure not the most And the like tell us a little bit more about the lawyers role and what he does. Yeah you know as a lawyer you can. Of course do traditional work defense work. you can do legal advisory. I'm saying legal. Advisory not financial advisory on the other hand you can of course as a lawyer also engaged in financial transactions. If you do that though you are like a bangor oni durance company subject to anti-money-laundering legislation. If you're a traditional lawyer you have privilege if you are financial operator you're subject to money laundering legislation and that's sort of the world standards in between there is a great zone and that's where The people that we're countering here are really moving their opening the structure and then they're leaving it to somebody else to use it so the the money has shifted around by somebody else. But does the lawyer has opened the structure. And there's no way getting into that black box if you want. Because they have their legal privilege. So mark you're an expert on criminal law and criminology. And you've talked extensively about the gold business about fee fine also the way drug trafficking and terrorism are financed and you talk about the structure. What is the link between money laundering and organized crime muni. This is really a very closely. I mean if you go back to nineteen eighty-eight the vienna convention that was when money laundering as a concept was for the first time putin international triki it was all about drugs and organized crime mafia. If you want and later on of course when broadened out to bit widened the concept and to also encompass activities like trafficking in human beings extortion fraud and so on so is very typically money. Laundering is something that is very close to organized crime except that of course over time most everybody engaged in criminal activities is using those techniques that i've talked about. We've heard a lot. Lately about. South dakota was in the headlines everywhere. Suddenly south dakota is one of the of the fiscal paradise is at. But there's also the it's amazing who who would know this. You're listening at this swiss. Those in south dakota. They're worse than we a- imagine that so. You've you've also talked about and we'll talk about switzerland in a minute but all these states and countries and islands make money from enabling the hiding of wealth. And we've noticed that more and more have been cropping up and they seem to be growing all the time. What are some of the ways that they they can be stopped. Well if you if you ways but you know this before. I say go into that. There's something really amazing. Governments could very easily stop it. But it's the contrary is the case. If you look at the you mentioned south dakota in the us you also could go to delaware utah. There are many places where you get these kind of services but go to france. They will send you to monaco. Go to spain. You have anura. Italy you have somebody know if you want to go into germany switz- switzerland or austria. They send you to this. Time and the eu has malta. Cyprus luxembourg my hunch is everybody has their little back door where they can actually escape into these offshore centres and nobody is seriously concerned in an a. Nobody's really interested in closing them. And while you could ask yourself why but one is one explanation could be if you have secret service operation that you need to shave money somewhere and you don't want everybody to know it while that's where you need these places. The other thing is if you're a minister apparently you need to cost somewhere and you don't want to tell people where he got the money from. Now i'm joking. But i think you can do things against them. You could actually simply close those offshore sentenced by saying they are no longer viable business. Centers you know the us cold at the primary money laundering concern. And then you're dead you as as a financial center if you put on on on that on that list. Dale tentative is you would be more insistent on finding out who are beneficial owners joe stiglitz and the ice suggested to have a company registered. That's real names in it. Not just the garden but has the net has not the garden of most fonseca but foot the name of the beneficial owner of personally who is really fully in control behind the gardeners. Put that name into the registry. Well you bet what happens. We've kicked out of the country bark. Fee maybe the largest quote unquote financial center or haven is after all your own country switzerland and when we spoke about the illegal go business. You mentioned that switzerland's financial secrecy laws were indeed one of the weak links and the money laundering chain. And you've i know you've spoken publicly about this. Where are swiss banks and right today. Where are the swiss laws and why urged people not being held more accountable in switzerland. Yeah well you're right pointing out. I'm not exactly a very popular person here. You can imagine but joke society there. There is a tradition strong banking secrecy and out still very much alive. Even though in the meantime banks abroad have to exchange or swiss banks also have to exchange with other authorities of foreign authorities who is keeping a bank account and how much she's on that bank account. But there's still a strong banking secrecy. And i must admit. Switzerland has been very very slow in granting mutual legal assistance in sitting criminal matches but also civil matters. It's really difficult. You wait for years to get about to inflammation and finally the touchiest point. Is that advises us and here. We're talking especially about lawyers. They are working in this great great zone between traditional legal work and financial operation or operators. And these i would call them enablers. They're building the structures They're hiding behind legal privilege and that was really the difficulty. Switzerland tried to change it. The government suggested let's stop subject these people to the anti-money-laundering legislation and lobbyists one in parliament. And they aborted that legislation. And how is it. The banks continue to be so tremendously involved them in. You know as i read the banks in switzerland and the united states and the uk have been part of these tremendous money laundering scams. And isn't there regulation now. International regulation now to sort of stop this illegal behavior. And why isn't that regulation working. Well i think the situation of banks is very ambiguous. They are subject to tremendous amounts of regulation is caused them an awful lot to do to be compliant and this is also the reason why they don't like this dirt competition of enablers day. The banks are actually asking for regulation of enablers. What i find strange is that the banks were not strong enough to actually overcome the critique of those lobbyists and of course. That's where. I think you asked us have other. They really serious around. They just making a show because they themselves of course are also living from the same kind of client. They won't declines. They don't want to give allow the the their opponents that competitors to have the clients and mark earlier in the show. I talked a bit about how technology and specifically systems like pgp encryption could allow for more whistle blowers to come forward and expose corruption at these highest levels. Is that true. And what have you seen. In recent years with such of these technological advances that could allow whistle blowers to thrive you see in Large parts of the world especially europe. Whistleblowing is still a very very risky business and Much depends that you have systems of whistleblowing that allow you to come in anonymously so whatever you have as technology that allows you to denounce wrongdoing. Honestly i'm not specialist of the Technological side. But i do know if you can come in anonymously. That is really helpful. Because as soon as the whistle blower is exposed. That is a high risk situation. It might be a bit different than the. Us where you possibly could earn yourself. A compensation as a whistle blow you. Could you could get part of the fine. But that's not the way the rest of the world. The us is pretty unique air. So coming back to your question. I think it is all these new technologies that allowed to keep the whistleblower confidential. They are bought you need and besides you know it's not just the authorities. That need these whistle blows. It's also the company it's a company interest to know what's going wrong in in your within your company talk politics a little bit so it used to be that strong governments with solid institutions. Were less vulnerable to criminal. Financial activity than those weaker democracies so to speak but evidence and of all this corruption and money laundering in developed countries with democratic values. Starting to demonstrate the contrary. Is everyone more exposed today. Even with more oversight is there a no longer correlation between democracy and money laundering. Well that's really a difficult question you see for me. What we what we're experiencing here with pandora papers is sort of happens on three levels. You have the victims in And they are still mostly in failed states or failing states you would have victims to kleptocracy or go to congo where mining rights are given against corruption. And then the money of course leaves and in a first stage. It typically goes to austral center financial centers enabling that seft and and mouldering the money and here is possibly the place where you know. The caribbean countries come in on whether wholesomely also faust the coat of it sin but my big birthdays. The real organize. The update are found in the traditional financial centers. Geneva london new york so he look at those three levels. You have the traditional victim. Kate victim country that is typically still suffering but it goes very much into the center of our democracies. You're perfectly right margaret. How about the link between all this and populism people are angry. There's indignation all over the world when people are being ripped off by corrupt leaders and by the by the elites. It's really not surprising that voters citizens are now gravitating to these irresponsible populists. And what do you kind of. Take out of that out of that correlation. I think you have to tell you. A namic dotes on that one. I was sitting in the world. Economic forum on a podium next to me was the then freshly elected minister of justice of brazil. And i said to them. Look those populists they. This is terrible. People get fed up. They distrust regular politicians because they zinc politicians steel. Then they turn to populist who say we will promise you to get rid of corruption and then in the end they are landed with people who themselves are on the take and here. I mean both on arrow brazil is one example. In a way. I witnessed joe stiglitz. Saying trump was the king of tax raiders in the european parliament. So i think my anecdote goes up. The minister sitting next to me the brazilian minister of justice. He's he When when i mentioned this in the abstract he was absolutely shocked and he said who are you talking about. And i said well maybe ben loose coney and he was so relieved into the public television television he said oh yes of course battles coney yes you've got a point there definitely a clever pivot. I just wanted to ask. We're almost out of time. But i want to ask if you had the opportunity to write the leaders of a number of countries a memo that had only two points. What would you say are the most important things that governments can do to try to begin to curtail and restrict and but some safeguards into the system so that we don't get this constant sense of corruption and hiding that we've seen in the last couple of weeks through the through. The door papers on a technical level is relatively easy. I see two points won't is we need to know who are the beneficial owners of companies accountable. Least authorities have to be able to uncover that to run prosecutions. The other point would be. We have to make sure that advises and lawyers who are active as financial operates a subject to anti-money-laundering legislation. There's a to two very technical things. There is a political element the financial action task force on money laundering this international watchdog body. They the air to really bully countries into doing something finally That's really essential. You're the problem is they're eminently political. So if countries don't like what they are suggesting We're not going very far. Mark thank you again for joining us on ultramar a great and fascinating discussion about what's happening in the world in behind the veil and under the curtain great pleasure. Thank you very much peter. I have two concerns after this great interview in the the great explanations by mark one is so panama papers and now the pandora papers a lot of leaks in between it seems like every time we are less surprised so i think the world is getting jaded and kind of accustomed to the fact that these things happen and that they're part of daily life so there's less outrage and the second is obviously the relationship with populism and i think that that is one of the biggest concerns of global democracy right now so even with all of these explanations and with Take on on on technology. I'm i ended up kind of very concerned that this has not become the the hot topic and needs to be. I'm one of those who are exactly what you describe money. I'm just not surprised. Doesn't seem to me. But the surprising that a royal from the middle east as a bunch of houses or that presidents of countries. Have you know club. Memberships or yachts and things like that so to me. It seems a little naive to be so surprised. By alba's my my concern. Is that an individual countries. This just fans the flame of this anti elite that elites who are supposedly smart enough for educated enough to hide their money shouldn't be the people who are leading our countries. And so i i to me it just seems very it. Worsens our democracy and As this information gets leaked out people become more jaded more cynical and You know more anti democracy and just to add. I'm usually not the optimist. But i think technology does really have the opportunity to anonymously to expose these corruptions and these financial maneuverings and i mean. I think that's something to to explore more and and mark was mentioning. You know the difference between the us and europe. And i think that that is an opportunity to to end this corruption. In the long-term. We'll see a mean that i think technology. I've never been a believer that the garage is the panacea things so i people will find a way around it. If they want to hide their money. I'm going to have the last word on that is working for that. You can listen tomorrow wherever you get your podcast. Don't forget to rate and review us on apple podcasts. See you next. Time
"Really important things that you have to get right in Seo. If the keyword research right, you have to create really good content and then three, you have to promote it and build links. If you do those three things crackly, you're bound to get to one hundred, thousand, one hundred fifty thousand visitors amongst. It's going to happen. Welcome to the my future business show where we get you in front of your best audience and keep their not only are we interviewing the biggest names in business to help you become even more successful. We're inviting you to book your spot on the show to help you grow your business so at the end of the cold. Make sure you fill in the interview application format my future business dot com for slash interviews. Hi and welcome back to the my future business show it's. Just like to say, thank you so very much for supporting the show. The feedback that I had been receiving is nothing short of breathtaking I'm always humbled, so thank you very much for joining us on the show. Today show on with Seo Specialists Greg near welcome to the show Greg. Thanks so much for having me right. Absolutely my pleasure net. Greg and I were talking about a whole handful of different things you know everything from. Linked into his whipsawed. What's happening in his business? But today our focus is going to be on search engine optimization. When be start off the show Greg. What we like to do first is learned a little bit about the guests. You know where they were born. Where they are now what they like to do in. I guess they relaxation Tom. Would you mind sharing the debate over the audience? Sure so I am born and raised in new. Jersey, I actually live right now. In a very quiet each town right outside of Atlantic, city soaker, kind of familiar with. The MTV Show Jersey Shore. Yes, I live in in that sort of locale in that area. Now you know we. We have a much quieter town than they than they were living in, but the, but just to give you a general feel of so I I Listen Engineering Training in college graduated and I started a company in College installing solar panels fell in love with the marketing and Then that that's how my business kind of progress at my career kind of progress I just just became a really really into all types of marketing operating walked optimization. Things like that so yeah. Are you an active person to you Jewish sports. What would you like to do not work? I? I would love to be more active than. But yes, I typically do love sports lows watching I. I definitely a weekend where you're on the best of awkward things like that, but The that's that's kind of about it and Within the last couple of weeks I've got an into because you know, we have a lot of downtime with pandemic. Yes, I've gotten into sleight of hand, card, magic and fish. I just bought a fish tank. These sorts of more lifestyle things because it keeps a bit of insight into the the people because at the end of the day Greg, we both know that I'm people out of the heartbeat of any business. You know are really enjoy learning a little bit more battery, so thank you very much. Let's shift gears. Let's talk about. Seo, now the first thing I think we need to do. Greg is a shoe that people who are on the call today. No nothing about Seo. If that was somebody that you were speaking to in your business. What do you tell them about issue? What is it? That it's not as hard as you might. Think, it is word that people want you to believe it to be I kind of just got tesco within the last five years or so. Of Market Crash so. I've been doing marketing for since two thousand and three. I started my company, so I've been doing marketing for seventeen years and SEO for the first. Let's call it. Let's say ten to twelve years has always been sort of like this black box of of magic. Right this kind of happened and Poof you you rank and I and. And I never knew how it happened, but but if you do just a few things, right, you are going to be eighty percent of the way there and it's. It's really difficult to learn. It is a grind hard work. Don't get me wrong, but it's not as sought the the defy an insanely difficult topic that people want you to believe it is. So. That I, think is the first thing that that I would love for people to understand is that it's just it's not complicated. Simpler than what? A whole lot simpler like like you can get very nuance, and yes, it will, if you WANNA get dig deep into it at it Wilga complicated, but for the average kind of. ECOMMERCE got person starting ECOMMERCE in e commerce, insulting or or service based business. It's really not. That difficult, you know you say hope businesses did it delivered nothing but Seo, and then marketing spew seems to be that it's very very mysterious dock and complex, and it's refreshing to hear somebody say the hang on. It's not as hard as what is might add to be I. Wonder You talk about how you went from when you started your own website, an you driving visitors to that you were up to one hundred sixty eight thousand visitors a month. That is, that is pretty pretty incredible numbers. How does that come about? That's actually just in organic search to that doesn't count I. That's not pay traffic or referral, traffic or anything like that. So how does that come about? Consistency. Publishing as a over a period of five years equally every single week weekend week out. That's really how it It it really happens, but rick. If you don't mind, let me go back. Really quick. Just go back to the complicated thing. 'cause I know people are GonNA SAY OH, consistency! That's that's really That's obvious, but I want to like for the complication it. There's through Strieber, really important things that you have to get right in Seo and then that's. If two keyword research right so in other words writing about topics that you were ideal client customer whatever is searching for. You have to. Create really good content this and that's the hard part you have to create really really good content. two three thousand. We're super in depth and then three. You have to promote it and build, and that's if you do. Those strings cracked those three things crackly. Over five years you're bound to get to one hundred thousand, one hundred fifty thousand visitors a moss. It's just it's going to happen. I mean there are so many elements to issue that I've I've signed. You're talking about K. words. They are wonder if we can dig a little bit deeper into what word means. So, a keyword is basically what you were a client. Or customer is going to search for so for instance. Let's say you sell a coffee pot or your coffee bog. This is funny, because I was going to start a coffee blog so so I was doing a little bit of keyword research around it, so what if I'm going to start a coffee blog and do you know sell a coffee of the month club so my customer would do. We'll be googling for a few things right. They would be looking for me. best French restaurants. Coffee Beans best cold coffee beans, right navy. They might even be looking for best coffee beans for a bellyache something along those lines. So. What is your client searching for? What problem? Do, they have that they need to have solved. And that's really all keyword researches. You're writing about something that your client is searching for. Because they have a problem and they need that problem solved. Your job is to solve it. Very simplified version. And that's the beauty of it, isn't it? Yeah, that's it. That's that's is I. mean it doesn't have to be complicated. Let's use. Coffee is a theme. That's. Idea? Now when you talk, he words. Is At one word. Can it be more than one word as a phrase? Can It bits of? Key Keyword is a bit of a misnomer. It's like for instance it could be how to. How to grind coffee is a key word right that might be one key word usually the longer the keyword, the easier it is to kind of rank ray, so so few have a keyword of coffee. That's going to be impossible for you to write an article about and rank is. Popular. It's so popular so competitive starbucks owns it folger's zones that like you're just going to be competing with huge brands, right? And whom pages, but like, if you haven't article like it, but keyword could be Best French roast coffee pots that could be your keyword, so it's it could be a phrase. It could be a sense it could be. Or could be a single word. Yes, it's it's interesting. You can use it the analogy of a tree. Your Business is the main branch and you've got all these smaller branches. which the Cambridge. That fading back to that is that is that kind of look at it? Absolutely yes, totally, that's fantastic, and then you wouldn't want to put anything that was irrelevant, would you? Would you try to avoid intensive care woods? I would not put any. You're right I would not put anything irrelevant. I would keep it. If you're writing about coffee than there, there's no there's very little need to write about. Let's say Apple Pie. Unless you're going to say best desserts with coffee rate. You're not going to write an article how to bake an Apple Pie. That kind of thing so you're gonNA. WanNa keep it as relevant and as together as possible. This is wonderful in Saudi appreciation with Going on Moore's interested when I see, hashtags don't really understand how they work, and can that be applied in the context of? Thing. I use hashtags and keyword research a lot to find out what types of problems by customers are having so yes, I do use Hash is in that sense to promote a bit, but not not that much that much because they seem to have place now. In terms of having their place, there are so many different platform, social media, platforms and website oldest sort of environment online that we can. I guess use SEO. What should we be every way with our SEO? Where should we focus? Do think well I. Mean Seo just pretty much stands for search engine optimization, so like having a facebook presence and versus who who doesn't have much of an impact on your search presence. It does help with traffic and things like that, but but one does not. Having a facebook presence Ernest grand presents, or whatever is not going to really make much of a difference in terms of your I'm not sure if this is the case, but would it matter depending on the top of business where you would be focusing? It's. You always focus your business. your seo efforts on Google right 'cause. That's just the most powerful one, and then if he gets picked up endangered or Or Duck duck go, or whatever then that's just a bonus. Yes, but then on the other side. Do I think a depending on your business? Should you always focus on Seo? And the answer is no I have a friend. She has a coaching business that helps other coaches get set up and she uses instagram and stories to perfection, and that's where she focuses all her time energy and does. And that works for her. She yells. She gets on a video camera. Everything like that, so I don't think that I wouldn't tell her to go in and do seo I would just start double down on her her platform of choice. You talked about before. How you need to be consistent now let's look at a typical blogger. They've just started out. Greg and the not getting much penetration. Nobody's saying you talked about consistency. Let's look at the construct the structure of a post in how you go about this process. Okay So the first thing that I would do if I was just getting started is I would create a and and. This is going to be super specific so. I would say this. I was I would create a very long. I Call Tolls Post so for instance if you're in the coffee business. If you're right in a coffee blog, it would probably be something along the lines of a hundred and one best French roast coffees. Flavors or something like that incredibly longlist post like that a tool that your ideal customers going to us, and so that's why we get started. And then I will promote that like crazy. And the cool thing about having a long list post like that. Is that. You're gonNA link like so. If you have a bunch of different you're gonNA have one hundred and one. Literally one hundred and one links in that post because you're gonNA linked to every single brand and maker of coffee, and that and that post, and the also thing about that, and the the advantage of that is that you have one hundred one people now to reach out to and say hey I. I read about you in this post. Would you like to check it out and and a twenty percent of them are going to share. And then that's how you get your your initial. Let's call it five hundred to one thousand readers just from that kind of thing. so that's the first thing I would do. In the second thing I would do is start Making friends in in various communities and things like that. Because you'll, you truly can't blog and built blog alone. He kind of praise in Solas Kenya exactly. Now you need you need partners you need. People to help you promote, and yes, so you have to start making as many friends as possible and and again the tools posts going to help you start to make friends, but but yeah, so start making friends. Now, I've seen a couple of your reviews and. Individuals talks about how how you love to know how things work. Where did you first experience SEO? And when did you realize that it was? It was for you? So I, I got hired to build the time Dr blog and I was okay blogger. When I got hired wasn't my speciality. My specialty was cooperating and I got hired to build the the the the time Dr blog and I call it the the blogging hamster wheel of doom. In that you're just you're just publishing a post, your? Promoting it on facebook twitter linked in and a couple other places, and then you. Do the same thing again tomorrow, right? Every single day is the exact same thing and what happens is the post that you were I was writing like last week. They were just totally lost to the Internet forever right they were. Scenic, yes, it was gone, and so when so I decided that we we had a couple of like people come in and help us out and give us some advice, and you know one of the things was like. Hey, you know if you'RE GONNA publish a post. You wanted to get traffic two three four five years from now and like you have post published in two, thousand, seventeen, two thousand. Maybe not two, thousand, sixteen, two, thousand, seventeen, that are getting three five ten thousand visitors amount still, and we're not doing any work with them. They just sit there and they traffic. Can you imagine to I? Don't want to say for free because we did a lot of work to get there. But yeah, but now now it's free traffic. You can say the compounding power of exactly. You do one post then you get one hundred thousand. Detain you. Do Your math and. One Post the thousand, and then another post two thousand, and in another post were hunter, five hundred visitors, and so as yet can it really really compounds, but a, but he thought the cool thing about Seo and is that. If you're even the you don't need. Hundred thousand visitors AH month rate lake like that's awesome, and if you, if you have one hundred thousand a month, you probably have a several million dollar business, but let's say you are a regular blogger and you you got your. A- It doesn't matter what kind of blog, but you you finally ranked post and it's getting three or four hundred visitors a month. Rate like that that could be life changing for somebody, and not that they're gonna be rich or anything like that, but but if they sell if they have a three hundred visitors a month from that one. Post then, and they sell A. Let's call it. A five hundred dollar product will if they convert one percent of that of those three hundred people. They're going to make fifteen hundred dollars a month rate. That's again, not life changing, but that's somebody's rent that the car you know that's. Link Your Life Yeah. Exactly, but let's so. That's the that's what I love about it. It's like what one blog posts that gets not a whole lot of traffic gene. Somebody's likes. You're deeply involved with the computer sciences. You know all about marketing. You've had a long list of really great experiences. Where does Google analytics coming into all of this? And how much time should you invest in understanding the numbers? Google analytics is a pain in the butt. It's I feel like it's a broken software on purpose. We do spend a lot of time in it. I am by far a google analytics expert. We actually hired. Like a the of Google analytics like specialists who comes in and like sets up a lot of stuff for us I would say that. Until you're until you're at. The the the the person who's just getting started like they need to know how much traffic they're getting. The general idea of where it's coming from. And that's kind of about. It may be set up a couple of goals. which which aren't hard to do, but that that's really about it like. You can get really in depth with Google analytics. We have a full-time person whose job it is to do on. Decided that it's complex would be. An understatement wouldn't have yes. I feel like it's unnecessarily complex, but that's. Just, what we need to know this extra exactly. I'm always thinking about the audience. Greg, what can we deliver to? Really make a difference in a lot of the content that you share. Today's is absolutely vital for them to understand and go away and think about but also. You know you talk about being consistent and creating Kate words and things like that good juice, but when it comes to having a business that you saying over the next month it's essentially a campaign. Hetty you. Do you look at campaigns? Or? Do you just do the same thing over and over and over again during that thirty is? As a campaign specific. We. Don't do a whole lot in the way of campaigns, and in the way of like. It for us. It's one hundred percent whether it's running facebook ads or read weather. It's running Do Some in the way of Gulag glad words Look Seo. We're just we don't just do like. We'll ramp up from time to time to do to like for to make for whatever initiative that we may have. But to save, we run a campaign. Is I don't think we do we just consistently try to get better. Every single day at the the things that all that we just do over over and over again like for consistently slow testing our our our facebook ads were consistently creating content. Weekly from from running that content weekly were consistently doing podcasts, tours and things like that. We just do everything everything that we do. We just keep doing over and over and over again. We don't do a whole lot of things we may do for we have we at tug Dr. we built a team into about thirty or so people and At and we, we've made you fly five things five marketing initiatives. We don't do a whole lot of marketing initiatives. We just do the same things over and over and over again and I have to say great. That's quite refreshing because there's so many people out there that claim to be all things to paypal at simply just just not possible. We literally just started on Instagram I don't even know if it's working or not, but we started. We were like. Let's test it out. See what have we don't? We don't do like Tiktok. We don't don't really go a whole lot on twitter. We don't do you don't. You. Don't do a whole lot on our facebook fan page yet. We basically do facebook ADS SEO email marketing. and. That's that's the like yeah. podcast tours and that's. And we do have a podcast so those five things among divided among a pretty decent size. Seem right now. It's like pretty. We just stick with what we now. I'd love to get you to share those Datas about you. PODCAST and way people can find you in a moment, but I'd also love to talk about Tom. You know some of the software that you can say that. Help shoe with your SEO. Setting up via posting in terms of competition. Is it important to look at? Other people's post, you think. US yeah absolutely. That's actually one of the key ways to To to get keyword ideas as to look at your competition, so at entice, which is a marketing blog I will look at people like Back Link Oh or Neil Patel or hub spot Other other big marking. Basel, look for Keyword Ideas. Absolutely, that's a that's a great way to to To! To Find Baucus topics. You. Do you find like five or six competitors who are much bigger than you and you will have blocked post topics for year for year. Is it something you seal these a proprietary software that can help you do that. Some of free summer pay. Do you recommend people who were starting out who don't know about the issue fundamental? Start just by doing it manually maybe. I would actually so there's a there's a tool by Neil, Patel called Uber suggest I would definitely start there. It's mostly free. I think it's like I. Think it's eighty percent free ninety percent free means you do, keyword research on there and Find Link building opportunities on there as well not as good as some of the more expensive paid software, but if you're just getting started and you're, you're not honor present sure if this is for you, then I would ask start with with Uber suggest. This is some such advice for British on the code. They grading so as thanks Greg. I'm also wondering. Is there differences you know? Some people don't use wordpress. Believe it or not some doctors. Is that something that you think they should consider a fact? Your ability to whether or not you use wordpress. Oh something sort of other which I'd be. That's a great question I have seen. People have success with almost every sort of platform whether it's wordpress were wicks were squarespace were even web flow? I have seen success with almost every single one the the reason why we're press. Oh, good is because it has. Any a huge ecosystem plug-ins, and it makes life a lot easier for for To grow your your blog like. It just it's just easier. But that so, that's why I use it, but I have seen people have successful Misteri every single a platform. With regard, to plug INS. Are Now. I've seen some freed one in some paid ones. Is this something again that you need to consider is one of the. The only Seo Plugin that we that I use is called joost. Seo and basically what that does. Is it the only thing I use it for is to change the the title tag and Meta description, so if you go and Google and you see a a bunch of things you'll see a the title of the Post. And you'll see like a description of the post. And I changed description. A lot of times I'll changed the title to, but I almost always changed the description of make it more of accustomed description, so if it's something like let's say you. Have you know your your hundred and one best French press coffee makers whatever? Google will automatically pull down the I I forgot. How many Carter characters let's say, it's one hundred sixty characters that will pull down your first hundred and sixty characters, the posts and that'll be the description with joost Seo I will go in and I would say hey, are you looking for a great fresh fresh press? French Press Coffee Bean Click here check out these hundred and one that we found your race, so it will be much of a custom customized thing, and that that I think is really the only wordpress plugin that I use wrote fantastic. Thank you very much shares a now when when people have written a fantastic coach Gregg and spent the time. Being careful about how many kate words and phrases they put in. And then they don't get success over. Not What do you say to that? First of all I. Kind of chuckle because I was there. And then I say, it takes time. I. Like I know what I'm doing and I've been working on on my own. My bog entice for six months nine months now and i. I don't have nearly the traction you would think. I think I. Get you know a couple of three four thousand visitors a month and Very small percentage is from search, engine, optimization, and I, and I know what I'm doing. It. It takes time You know you just like. Don't expect results tomorrow. It's good if you you depending on the niche that you're in if you're in a non-competitive initiative, could takes six months or so, if you're in a very competitive niche, marketing or fitness, you'd be looking at a year or more until you're getting real honest to goodness traffic from it is that really reflects the competitive nature of year, but. Yes Yep. It depends EXAC-. That's exactly right. Some niches and industries are just much more competitive than others look great on. This is a topic that is date. It is fast. It can be very simple, but there are very specific things to do in specific order. You've talked about setting realistic expectations for yourself and being aware that certain plug ins are better than others and just so much great content. It's been a wonderful trait now for people who want to know more about Seo and want to work with you. What is the process in where they going to find you? So. They could go to entice H. dot com. and. I have a case study on like. If they just entered their email address, they could get a case. Study and I will give them everything that I've done to grow two hundred sixty eight thousand visitors month. It's everything from. How did you keyword research all the way down to email scripts? That I used to promote my blog posts, so they will get everything that they need. Everybody, who was on the call today? As is the case, I would be making a link back to gray and he's wonderful payment entice heights q dot. com just below the video window. Where if you find this post across L. Wide Network, you will find great information great. Thank you so very much for spending your time with me talking about Seo on the my future business show today. Thanks so much. It was a pleasure. Thanks for joining us today. If you enjoyed the coal, then make sure to subscribe Labor. Comment Sheriff's with your friends and book your spot on the show at my future business dot com Ford slash interviews, and if you're looking for solutions that will help grow your business than visit my future business dot com forward slash shop.
NeuroLinguistics Pt4: Meta Model & The Science Of Asking Questions | Real Estate DEconstructed
"Mucking de real estate deconstructed as we continue on journey along alpay and continuous journey for Nor linguistics and talking about language and this is the final model as far as languages which we're going to cover the meta model and chunking. But i tell you this these these podcasts are getting out there because actually have someone who's atop. Nlp trainer that. i know just from the industry. Don't own personally semi message on facebook and said. Hey listen i hear your podcast on antelope e loving it. You're making it so simple that it's annoying me and i was like well. That's what i'm doing. I'm trying to keep this as it is technical. But i'm trying to keep it as simple as possible. And and i told my mom that you even listening to podcasts. He's like yeah. I start to borrow some of your stuff. I said i own means. While i'm doing is i'm there are some technical aspects but i'm really trying to keep it as simple as i possibly can can give you some value to it so long journey we've discussed linguistics for the past couple of weeks and so we're gonna talk about chunking and then we're gonna go into the nlp meta model so any concept we have anything we have any idea you have can be brought through levels of abstraction or levels of bring it down to a specific so in. Nlp chunking is taking idea a statement and either drilling down to a specific which use the meta model four or. Bring it up or chunking up to a global aspect. And so i'll give you an example of of how that actually works. And i'll give you one of the standard nlp examples. So i said car a car now. That's just a statement. It's an idea it's effect. I could use actually went up. Pop the linking in there. So i can use a levels of abstraction to either drill that down to something more specific or chunk it up to something more global so if i said if someone said to me well car and i said something along the lines of you know ford purposes a car. They may say transportation. That's moving up a level. And i say well what's the point of transportation. What's the purpose of transportation and they'll say movement and then the big question will what's the what's the intent behind movement. It might be existence. So i went from car to upper level to transportation upper level to move up a level to existence and these this is like the standard nlp textbook description of chunking up so the chunking up questions are for what purpose. What's the intention. What's his example. And what does that do for you. So those four questions will move people up to a level of obstruction so car transportation movement existence up to abstraction what we generally gonna use is chunking down to a specific so using the same example. I say again. Someone says to me car. And i say well what specifically about a car. The engine will what specifically about an engine. The piston will what specifically about the piston. The piston rings. So i went from car data level more specific to an engine to a split apart down a level again to a piston down a level tour right. You can do the same thing with house. You know house okay. What's the purpose of having a house to live in. Okay was the purpose of living in a house. Well security okay. And what's the purpose of security. It's my life. So i moved from a house up to security existence life so moving up and down again in real estate and sales in general. We're gonna use a chunk down process. Someone gives us a statement. We want to move them down. This is what happens all language and has talked about this over the past couple of weeks. All language is what's called a surface structure. There is a deep structure. That's specific below that surface structure that someone says something to you. That actually is the meaning of what they're saying so chunking also abused in what's called lateral problem solving and this is a great way to handle an objection. So someone says to you. I'm not paying you six percent. That's the surface so in lower problem solving what we can do and we can go up to a more abstract and then solve that problem. What happens in real estate. What happens in sales what happens in business. Is people have a problem or an issue and the problem is. I don't wanna pay more than six percent. The problem is the marketing. The problems is a sales. Whatever happens debate and a lot of times. We try to get it down to the the specific. And that's not the way to solve the problem so a lot of times. When you draw down to a specific point yet so nitty gritty you get stuck nitty gritty instead of seeing the big picture. So someone says to you. I'm not paying you six percent. I can turn around and ask the question will. For what purpose does it would it be able for what purpose. What's the reason behind. Well i wanna put more money in my pocket. Great so i moved them up a level from. I don't wanna pay you six percent to. I wanna put more money in my pocket. So i can ask. The next question is well. What's another way. You can put more money in your pocket. So let me explain what i did not you more than six percent. What's the purpose. What's the intent. What's the reason. I want too much money in my pocket so i moved up a level of abstraction. Now i'm gonna move them sides this star from beginning. I'm not paying your six percent. What's the purpose was the intent behind that. I wanna put the most money in my pocket. So i moved them up level then. I'm going to ask him this question to move them sideways. mr smith. What's another way you could put more money in your pocket. So i moved them up level and then over. Well if i sold my house for more. I would have more money in my pocket. Now can you handle the objection or can you handle that statement is if i sold my house for more i would put more money in my pocket easier than are not paying you more than six percent. Anyone feel free to answer that you can. Because generally the structure of. I'm not paying more than six percent. Is you start. You start giving them reasons and justifications while you're worth more were they should be paying you six percent some demonstrates is again with the same example. I'm not paying more than six percent while i'm curious. What does that do you. Well that puts more money in my pocket. Oh really. I can understand that. What's another way you'd be able to promote the money in your pocket. Well if i sold my house for more money perfect let me show you. How listing with me. We can get your house sold for more money. You see have. I just moved them up and then over in that i can handle the objection. Does that make sense. See people shaking her head jets. Okay any questions on that because that's moving them up and over so again i'm not paying more than six percents. I'm not paying us six percent. What does that do. I'm curious what does that do well puts more money in my pocket or i'll make more money. What's another way. you can make more money. Well if i sold my house for more now. I can handle that. So that is what's called lateral problem solving or lateral thinking. Someone said got it of any questions on chunking challenging up is going to a global or a more abstract chunking down is getting more specific when you're negotiating with someone if you're stuck on that specific chunk up because the more you chunk up the easier. It is when a person's stuck on fix position. I'm not paying you more than six percents. I'm not paying you six percent. I'm not paying you more than x. Percent whatever that percents happens the big the more you can go up the easier. It is actually to reach agreement so i can move up one or two levels reach an agreement and then s two questions to bring you back up now bringing the person down into a specific is asking questions like who what where when who what where when how what specifically what's an example of this or any of the other metabolic questions we'll get to in a minute the question. You never wanna ask a person. Is the question why why does not control the conversation why they can go up to a global or they can go down to a specific. Why is it good. Open ended question. That may get you lots of information but have you ever asked anyone that question. Why and they go up in a totally different direction from what you've ever thought they were going to go to so this really is people say there's an art to ask him questions there is. It's how you ask them but there's also a science behind. Do i want to get this person down to a specific or that. Want to bring them up to a more that we can have a conversation about goal everybody without one as people shaking her head justice so any questions again on the chunking upper chunking down. I'm gonna pull. Bradford minute to brag on. Meet yourself there. Is we talk. Brad talks a lot about on the role play. Call about chunking up and jumping down so brad. Generally how to use chunking upper chunky. Now he didn't know. I was going to do this at no. I mean i it with buyers especially buyers i love doing chunking upper buyers because you get them to realize what's aboard At home let's say chengguan ago security for my family then every time you show them a property you could say. Do you think your family would feel secure here can you. Or depending on what their representational system is. Do you see yourself being secure in this home so by attention have. What's your intention behind doing that. The intention is i want to chunk them up to a higher meaning of what the home actually represents. Because then if i bring them back there after we've shown a home they're more likely to write an offer that's gonna win thirty and it's more represent security. I love that example. Since i since brad's going up a level two security more global. It's easy to agree upon security because it's more of an abstract. It's easy to agree upon abstract things that necessarily is specific things. So thank you brad. I knew you'd have a good example. Your old so the next one. We're the next covers. The meta model. The meta model is the second linguistics model. That's taught in the practitioner. certification the p. practitioner study and the meta model was based upon modeling virginia. Virginia cheer was the fam- she she was literally the mother of family therapy. And what bandler and grinder did is they modeled. What was doing and what they found out that she had a knack for getting people to the root of the problem very very very quickly so if they express the problem she had a had of questions that she would ask. That would get them to the root of the problem. So this is what happens when we say words everything we saying. I said this briefly before everything someone says to you is a surface. Structure meeting is on the surface. What's behind that is the deep structure the meaning of what they're saying deeper below so the word is self is a surface structure the deep structure is the meaning behind it but as we learned i think it was in the first or second session is everything that goes through our mind we generalize we delete and we distort so there's a deep meaning behind with a person saying but they're deleting it they're deleting parts of the parts of it and they're distorting parts of it to give you a surface structure so the meta model is a way of asking precise questions to undercover uncovered the deep structure when it comes down to it in someone gives you an objection when someone gives you an objection that objection structure is the surface structure. There's a meaning or a deeper reason or a deep structure behind it. That i wanna get to because if i can get to what the deep structure is with the meaning behind it is. I can handle that objection much easier. Most salespeople what they do is again objection and they handle that gamma talking language. They handle that surface structure. The words of the objection and we handle that. We think we go past it. We think it's okay. However there's a deeper structure behind it that objections. Keep coming up. So when you handle. Just a surface objection. That objection goes away. But there's something deeper meaning behind it. Something deeper in the deep structure of their language. Or they're unconscious. That actually is going to bring up that objection again. Have you ever handled objection. The person comes up with another one right away or two minutes later and they come up with another one then they come up with another one another one. He like holy crap and got an objections in a row. The problem is you're handling the surface of the objection the surface structure instead of drilling down deeper. So the the meta model allows you to discover a drill down deeper and ask specific questions that are going to get us specific results. That are going to get you the deep structure so i'm gonna give you some traditional. Nlp examples of this and actually working on a a real set examples for this uploaded Us another link later tight with specific real estate examples. So this three things we don't minds we delete we distort generalize an all language is actually part of one of those three things we delete items out of our language the word use we distort and generalize so going back to the presuppositions of language we learn things about mind reading and loss performance and causing effec- and even when we talked about the milton model last two weeks it was artfully bake in. The issue is a lot of people. Speak to a lot of a lot of your clients. Customers will speak to you and they'll be very vague what they're saying. And so. How do we drill down and get. What's what really meaning of their languages. What what the deep structures so the first part of distortion when it comes to the meta model is mine. Reads now miami again is knowing how someone else is feeling without saying how you dim so again. I'm gonna give you standard. Nlp examples of this and upload some real estate examples for you tip if someone says she doesn't like me. How do you get to the deep structure simple. I ask you a question again. I'll post this in the chat simple again by asking a question. How do you know shows like the seller won't do it. How do you know the cella won't do it. So what i'm doing is i'm recovering the source of information loss performance when it's a value judgment when the The personal left-wing out is the person left. The outdoing the judgment is bad to do x. It's bad to be a real estate agent. It's not but if someone says it's bad to be dishonest. That again is loss performance. It's a value judgment. We don't know who's making that judgment is making that statement so anything gather evidence with questions as long as in the handout gives you these questions by the way is who says it's bad according to how do you know what's bit so i got a generalized statement. It's bad to be dishonest. i can't sell now or you can't sell now. According to a bad time to list according to who says it's a bad talk. How do you know it's a bad time opposed just that surface so i'm recovering a believe. I'm recovering a strategy. Something behind it. The next one is cause versus effect. X causes y x causes. Y peter makes me dizzy. Peter doesn't think men music as the sample. Peter makes me mad house specifically or i move the person to a cause. How does what peter's doing 'cause you feel mad. And i'm moving the person to a corpse so anytime someone says ex causes why. I'm ex because of why the simple questions asked them. How specifically how specifically does echoes one. Now some of these can come off a little harsh and a little almost like like Like you're drilling the person so you have to softeners which will get to a little bit Complex so causing effects is x causes. Y complex complex. Equivalent is x. equals y. Two things equal each other Standard alpine example is. She's always yelling at me. She doesn't like me one is the other. It's the same. How does her yelling at. You mean she doesn't like you. How does one equal the other or you can actually call the on this. She's always yelling at me. She doesn't like me. Have you ever yelled at someone that you liked so anytime someone gives you. X is y remember causing effects is because of why if someone gives you accomplish. Women one thing equals another. The question is do we need to ask a further question to determine how does one thing meaning the other. Everybody getting us. So far i see people had so vets good and again. If you have any questions feel free to on me yourself and jumping. We have our presuppositions in language to presuppositions in language. The things we have to propose or things. We suppose to be true to make sense of of the statement. And if you don't know what these are go back and listen to presuppositions of language in the podcast and you'll be able to get more detail on these I have a question. Yeah water bit is is. You're not personalizing like you're not saying you're a bad husband year you you go more like your actions or bad. You know what i mean. It's like it's it's tell me about that a little bit. Why that's perfect. And i'll pay a person's behavior is not the person so what the person does does not equal that person. It's behavior so a lot of times when people say i'm confused and this something. Greg greatly linguistically i'm confused. They're taking on the identity of confusion. I don't want them to have the identity of the confusion. So i'm gonna ask the question. Well how do you feel confused with now. Moving from an identity of confused to a feeling of. I feel confused and a lot of times people get in. This is any language anywhere and it doesn't matter if it's sales or anything else person takes on identity of things like people say i am a smoker. No you do behavior of smoking. Because i am a smoker is an identity and used when people say things like i am. I am a very powerful words. I am very very powerful. Words like in the legit nomi. My background is therapy. I own a mental health clinic and people a lot of times. We'll say you know. I'm an i'm an addict. No you do the behavior of an addicted person because it's much easier to change your behaviour than it is to change an identity label so a lot of these gory right. It becomes your story of who you are at because you have a story but you are not your story which is a totally different thing of having that story so a lot of times in meta models and especially a lot of times when someone says i am it's a cause versed effect and they're talking about there on the back side of the equation and just like he's mad at me you know you're on the effect side of what's going on so linguistically. I want to move you to the cause side. Because when i moved to the cause side we can adjust. We can handle that when you're only on the effects audiotape. Take the identity label. It's much more difficult to deal with it. Much much much more difficult to deal with a great question. Great question so the next one or the presuppositions things we have the pre supposed to be trip so if my broker knew that bothered me he wouldn't do it if my broker knew that bothered me. He wouldn't do it if the other agent knew that bothered me. They wouldn't do it. So we have some presuppositions. It bothers you other broker. The other person acts in some way and that bothers and the other person doesn't know that you're bothered so a couple of things you can do here. And i'll repeat the statement If my broker knew how much. I bothered me. I He what dylan. So this one's tough. How do you choose to be bothered by what he does. Which the tough thing to ask the person you have to have report with that but again you moving the person to the cost question instead they affect you can ask the person will. How do you know the seller doesn't know a well. They never really told me before. So how do you know that what they're doing. How do you know that they don't know what they're doing bothers you so it's drilling down to a more specific. What is an example for you do x. Because you know that bothers me okay. Perfect so nikola and you do because you know that basel this. The thing is a presupposition in that that that person knows that bothers you so nick. I'm gonna ask you if you say that statement to me bob does x. Noses bother me. Mike price rebate. How do you know that he knows it bothers you which is a powerful portion is on like well. I don't know that he knows well. How do you choose to be bothered by it. But do you mean so. It's a way of getting the person from a more abstract in their language to a more specific in their language. Then we had the next. One is universal quantifies statements that people make every never everyone always. I never get a listing. You can just respond with never never trust me. Device kitchen around never. I could never sell my house never. I can't do this now. What happened if you did. And i love these questions in recovers information of the questions of what would happen if you did. What would happen if you didn't what would happen if you could. I love those. Why can't some house. What would happen if you did. What do you mean but what happened if you could sell. Your house will probably move a new place. I can't sell my house. What would happen if you did. I'm probably find a new property and you're gonna get more information out of it so it recovers an effect. People say i can't do something. I can't my home now. Simple question to ask them as what's preventing you. But i don't think i'm gonna make enough money but if you could make enough money would you. Well yeah absolutely well. Let me show you how you could. You see how i can get from thing. I can't sell my house to. You're getting the reasons why and then you're drilling deeper to get more specific questions on that. The questions are when something's gives you that qualify. All never always everyone. No-one no-one likes me. No one likes you. And then you'll get more specifics. Next one is nominalization. So nominalization is a statement that takes a verb and makes it into a now. We have problems without communications that we have problems with communications. Who's communicating. what if it sells you know. We're having problems communicating. I could ask them this question. How would you like to communicate. It's funny when brad board up brand frank. 'cause you're the second person on my screen. Brad said earlier. The problem one of the one of the things with his team is communications. So i literally was going to say well how to communicate because someone saying i have a problem with communications and chunking down to. How would you like to communicate is getting to something more specific while i would like to more easily. Okay and how's away you be able to communicate more easily. Well we phone calls three times a week on monday. Wednesday and friday so great. So what would happen if he did do that. Well we communicate more easily. You see how language goes from something abstract where we're not communicating easily. We're not communicating enough to a more specific example than you can handle any questions on that one so anytime you take communications like we have a problem with communications which is a verb and a novelization takes that verb and makes a now tries to make it thing so what we're trying to do is undercover the process behind them. Doing what they're doing. Can you then ask them when they want to communicate more easily to define. What is your definition of easy. 'cause sometimes people that to me is an abstract word because it's what does that mean like. Absolutely so how. Would you like to communicate. Well i'd like to communicate more easily. We'll specifically what would it be an easier way to communicate because communicate more easily is very. It's still an abstract saw so again. The meta model is taking a person from a abstract or somewhat abstract thought and then chunking them down to a more specific. And you'll have you'll have a seller will say to you you know I don't think this communications working. Well i don't think this is working. Well what about this. Don't you think as work does. How do you handle someone saying. I don't think this is working well specifically is there anything specific. That is not working that maybe we can work on in change. So that's the first of i think eight that'd be covered of the meta model and chunking so again chunk is taken a statement or something abstract and chunking up. Get you more abstract chunk down by asking specific questions. Who what where when. How what specifically what are these examples of will get you more specific information. You don't ask the reward. Why why they can go anywhere with so we're just about time. We'll continue the meta model next week but there really is a science behind asking questions. There's an art of how you know the the the Tonale in your pitch and your tempo is the art but the actual questions. There's a science behind it because once again it is. Hey that surface structure is just surface structure. If i can get deeper. I can find the deep structure behind that language. I can handle out a lot easier than just not paying you. I'm not paying you six percent so we got like a minute more anybody any questions on the first part of the meta model. I'll put the handout again in the chat for those of you. Listening to the podcast. You can't hear the chat. But i will send out later so any questions on the meta model of chunky upper trumpy now is we have about a minute more right. Anybody find this value. Have you found that a value on. Meet yourself at south again. Pamela thank you. I want some fair up with i. It's my girlfriend. She's a clinical mental health counselor. She that'll health. Great day jeffrey yeah.
#13 SAM against loss of enterprise knowledge with Sally Solaymantash
"Hello and welcome everyone next the episode of Helping Trade Podcast or we've space enterpreneurs and there startups might. Today's guest is Sally Sally and successful enterpreneur with over forty years experience in it and enterpreneurship itself will and if you don't mind the stage is yours. Please introduce yourself hi. I'm Sally Sulaiman Tash. I am a Persian the English American currently living in Basel. I'm very passionate about technology and equality and I'm fortunate enough to to be realizing my vision of some smart approach methodology and doing some public speaking. Yes that's how we actually went to Toastmasters co-sponsors Basel which is an association. which helps you with public speaking? Yes I absolutely loved it. They Great Support Team and I've learned a lot because I used to turn into Jelly to do front of people to speak. I still turn into Jelly but the jellies a bit more set that it was before not just much. It's shaking very good support and I highly recommend for people to attend that. It's good for building confidence and band teaches you how to speak. I love it. I'm really happy that I'm the hope you're going to be my mentor. Actually thank you. I'll do my best. Let's first talk about not renting your path before we actually go to your current in diverse. If you don't mind show from the talks that we heard before I know actually have enterpreneurship in your blood ever since. You are very young if you wouldn't mind sharing that experience. I'm a little bit older than average entrepreneurs on the market right now and when I started we didn't use the word the entrepreneurial I was like the weird kid to wasn't like everybody else but knowing what I know now and looking back into things that I did as a kid I always I always liked to refine ideas and come up with creative distinct ideas so I was selling you. One of my first memories is was. We decided we wanted to make our own money to buy crayons and paper and do some drawing one summer few kids got together. We created a theater from children's story and we bullet family and friends and parents to buy tickets to watch our theater and then when we took the money to do that and at a time for When I was a Brownie at school we had to collect money? Maybe we did initiatives. Bake Cook is assault something. My idea was sparked when I went shopping with my mom and I still corn that was colored in very vivid bright colors. I Made Popcorn and I sold them. Extortionate we high prices because the did not look like normal popcorn. Give a colorful foil. This is going back fifty years ago something and I made like twenty pounds profit from the week that we had to do this and it was such a high high demand school. I couldn't keep up with it. This is something. I've always always been idea generator. I didn't always WANNA do Dick. Follow through with the idea but happy he to hand it over to somebody else but I just loved idea of coming out with new ways of doing moving fast forward. You went to study Rt Yeah. When I was nine years old I was asked that school what I wanted to be when I grew up? It's a long story. You know going through all my options. Now be unhappy with any of them. I One time heard my dad and his friend Tolkien about this new science colt computers. And this is in early seventies is very early seventies. This was amazing because This you had to be very analytical and a the same time you had to be very creative in applying kindest new science and everything was to be explored and that was it I was sold and this is exactly what I wanted to do. Never having seen a computer aridi knowing what a computer was I passionately pursued that untold. Everybody I wanted to be a computer scientist when I grew up. And it was I was sixteen and before I had an option to actually study computing and Yeah and I have been hooked ever since you started it also working in the computer science to begin with right studied. I got my degree in computer science. I started working in the software industry. I have been fortunate Russian it. I've played every role in life of a software and then I'm a social person. I get bored when a no all that. I'm interested to know so so once I know something I need to move on so I played different roles learning each one which was great because it gave me understanding of the entire software software life cycle. And why we do certain things and how it can impact other steps and then once I did all that and deny still was hungry for more. I decided to start changing industries so I worked in different industries that way I could learn about my clients business while I practice what I already knew and figure out different ways of helping them by applying my knowledge and along the way I was fortunate enough to learn a lot and grow Roy certainly grew because he also create your own company. Yeah this was. This started. Nineteen eighty nine. When I was really disappointed as an an employee I felt like I was being promised a lot when they were hiring me? At the time you know. Technology was very in high demand. It was the peak of the growth of technology. And they promise you the world and then when you started work to said well that was the marketing pitch and now is the real life and now you do this awesome and I went through few experience of being disappointed and I decided and again. That's my entrepreneurship coming up. That I didn't know I had. I decided I I want to be in charge of my own destiny and I wanted to be in a position to choose what I wanted to do and a choose would I didn't WanNa do you walk away from and I started my first company. Nine thousand nine hundred nine Sola Montage Associates Ltd sal for short in UK. And I started doing crayons computer consultant and I worked across Europe. The major companies was very fortunate. My travels levels took me to us. I couldn't use my company dare so after Getting my green card in. US is established the same company the in us and then continued with my freelance. Under the same name I was touch wood very lucky and very successful throughout of my career until two thousand fifteen when I decided to walk away from it. You're wanting to study again. Two Thousand Fifteen I. I don't know you WANNA call it midlife crisis or awakening or whatever but after having spent my entire life being very passionate and focus goes on software technology. I came to a realization as an industry. We're not learning. We kept making the same mistakes at the beginning of every project. We were all excited. We gotta do too stiff front. This is GonNa be the best thing ever and then as the project. We're Anton Depression. And the reality set in waste OUGHTA cutting corners and making compromises and at the end everybody was exhausted and nobody was really pleased with what we produce. Just glad to be over. Yeah and I didn't WanNa do that. I didn't. I felt like a rational wheel running around around around and I wanted to get off the rat race and I walked away from my lifetime time Pasha not knowing what I wanted to do and just by pure coincidence I stumbled across my old university doing a brand new course called enterprise and business creation it was. Mse Degree the moment I sword is like this is what I WANNA do and I picked up the phone and call them and when is the deadline. I WanNa Register Ted. Line is tomorrow and it was a Thursday into tomorrow is Friday. I said but I'm your aluminum. And you have to accept me because I WANNA WANNA do discourse and he said Okay we'll send you the forums. Just send them as quickly as you can so Monday. I had interview and choose their had my offer and two weeks later I was doing the chorus because of course it started and I loved it and that was the beginning of my entrepreneurship journey on. The new title of entrepreneurship. Finally got your stand now. Finding out amazing you immediately after actually start at the company which was Step into tech dot org almost there. Pinta Tech Dot C. H.. H No all. Sorry I'm confusing confusing. Thinks he s stepping iphone. Cotton about that. I'm thinking of the next think. Yes it was. That was a collaboration. I when I was a student at university I attended hackers on in there and over there these kids. If I'm not mistaken Deborah for ten and eleven. These two boys and I was absolutely mesmerized by the energy and You know the drive to be and they pitched they actually got selected. As one of the pitches to be developed. I was privileged to be part of their team and we created this tool called sucks wchs suck. They didn't WanNa get socks for Christmas. They wanted to give shopping list of Christmas present wishlist so the family and friends could pick from there and I became very much friends with their one of the moms she had division. Did she hit this. Super Intelligent. Tech Savvy Child Aalto weight very few opportunities for him to grow and follow his passion because a lot of focus on playing football or in other type of the sporting activists which he was an into and She had to really division of starting the step into tack. She asked me you to co found that with her and help her and we started working on that and shortly after I actually ended up leaving and coming back to Basel so so I can't really take much credit for it but I did my little bed to help yesterday. The idea were grew into creating opportunities for for children who were interested in coming to tech and getting him to understand what tech is because a lot of kids in including An amazing mentality that had university think technology is games and they want to do game development that investee think all that is our our mission was to expose them to fund side of tech but also to the serious side of tag and bringing people from all different types of life all different personalities and places to be role models for these children. It doesn't matter girl or a boy you're you know. It doesn't matter turbocharger Yabloko. Why are whatever you may be a few passionate tech you can use it and and it doesn't mean that you have to be a programmer? Gramma there are so many roles intact or so many avenues and even if you have multiple passions take allows you to merge them all together and that's the beauty beauty and uniqueness of attack and die idea was to inspire these children to be all they could be ongoing. It is still ongoing. I have to say slap slop hands. I have been disconnected because this is happening in UK it deviated from at least my thought of making it a huge international international thing because it's borderless. In my opinion it became of having take a ben and having groups that kids could come in and children could mentor other children as well as being mentored by adults so they created this event that is still going on to my knowledge by Dan freely lost touch but I really think it's an amazing thing I admire them for doing. It was a big fan of our. Of course you're essentially bring anyone who is interested interest in tech and you teach them basic programming through actually giving a fixation where you show them if you do these commands and then you start with more complex things like putting if conditions ambitions within if conditions and you actually create an entire movement processing of your your in the game I find it really awesome so great it is and it's really a. Coding is a good beginning into tech. But people usually think attack is coded or software. Technology is just coding. But it's a lot more than that on that sort of been my mission to make. Coding is the evil necessity You have to coat in order to tell the hardware what to do. This is off. Ah Form of communication at the moment but there is so much more into and this is what I wanted to inject so this was the angle I came in with step into tech dot. Org this is a great bridge towards your idea of Sam. It's an enterprise software development tool will will be. It's my vision of it can talk more about or secret Nazi. This is part of the public. Speaking that I do is on on some Some basically collection of my life experiences in the technology world. But I've learned that really works. Well aw what doesn't work well. And what is total waste of time. When I stepped away from technology and went and did my university I equals? My mission became to change everything. So I'm brought up if you don't like something don't just complain about it. Change it and and this is what I'm doing with with Psalm. Is I intend to change the software technology industry. Because I believe the way we're approaching things. It's out-dated software technology hasn't changed since conception with still write code compile. Its ticket on a machine and yes we do a whole lot of other work work which is documentation and you know writing hundreds of different things last big project I did. We had more than two hundred thirty documents. That were I several hundred pages each to build a software but the reality is that has nothing to do with software. It's you do that in order to make your brain work so that when you write the code hopefully do it the right way but there is nothing other than human mind that connects six the two and to me that's wrong. That's a disconnect and there are many many tools have been developed but the all been developed opt with the focus of the current approach to technology which to me. They act like bandits and the only way I see that you can really leverage enormous progress. We have made in technology primarily through hardware. Technology is to go back to basic and and rethink and rebuild the whole thing from scratch based on what we physically have a note today a rod and creating more abandoned bandaids of different shapes size and form and challenging the whole process. This is what I've done with. Some some is going to be a business centric software mythology did encompasses the entire life cycle of software product within a single tool. So he's not just the guide you read and then followed a bit. You like our understanding ignored arrests. Eight actually mentors and guides you and helps you through that and to me to strength of Assam comes from using the strengths of us. Humans which is our creativity our ingenious way of thinking together with the strength of computers which are very good detail repetitive accurate work and if we allow each of us to focus on what. We're very good that we can create a formidable team of going for what and that's what division of Siamese once I started talking about it and getting the blank look in cross eyed expression from people I realized that not everybody was on the same wavelengths and instead of trying to convince them of my my idea I decided well maybe I should just start talking about it and letting them arrive at their own conclusion. So this is when I join toastmasters learn to public speaking and then I started public speaking about why I believe that software technology needs help help. Everybody wants to use it. I actually started looking at grants to build minded Billions out there for technology but when you actually look it it did fall in two categories. Either as for hardware technology or is for using software technology to build other things like biotech solaar so lower tech whatever attack but there is nothing absolutely nothing for building software technology itself. It's not recognized by anybody anybody that there is a need there. And that's what I wanted to create awareness and spreading the word people start having conversations with one another and eventually a right person would hear it and say maybe she's onto something less talk and then I can find the partners. I need on this new venture. I finally because I was already as I told you before. I was part of projects where we had that exact problem that we had knowledge transfer to begin with B. We had had to work with aged technology. Had No purpose and it was just a Helen and the nightmare and having something like a sandwich with actually preserved a knowledge and you could actually start and Believer Endeavour Globe and then again execute on of the entire life cycle of a software. That'll be great. Yes I think. The biggest strengths of psalm comes that it will create a single visual source of truth for the entire enterprise. So the moment if you think of enterprise any enterprise day have depending on the size of them they have from several hundred to several thousand systems. There are many reputations because they're old ones Johnson versus a new ones and nobody ever gets rid of the old ones because they always have a piece of knowledge that you could extract fully and then the whole company the whole enterprise knowledge is fragmented across all these sisters. There is actually no single place you can go and see or experienced entire car thing and because of that We'd all due diligence. We all the regulatory influences being put in a centralisation John Wooden each company. They're literally hundreds of different standards. There is hundreds of different ways of doing things. There is hundreds of different languages is operating system just most -cations and and to me that's a failure on the self technology people or the technology people as a the whole that this has happened and to me an enterprise should have the single source of truth with some electronic that officials a single source of truth because as humans we are visual creatures. We are amazing at pattern recognition. That's why when you go on a website it asks you read that silly blurt tax though number because to us is like. Why is it doing that like you? You know it. It doesn't make sense but it makes sense because a computer can't do that or you know which parts of which pictures of traffic lights in it. A witch picture has is bridges in it even a two year old can tell the difference. Or what's the difference between poll. An Earth a two year can tell you which is which but the computer. U-TURN will have a struggle identifying that and that comes with our strength which we take it for granted and by leveraging that then we can focus on finding problem patents and coming up with creative solutions autism. Be Buried in details that we're not good at handling bring me through a day of working for example with Sam. Let's say we wanted to have a calculator is a software product. Where would it start where we did and how it would be just like a daily life cycle of working for a normal user idea of psalm? I have couple of videos on my website but idea of some is that you you will begin with the business or the core of what. You're trying to build so to me a lot of the time we technology people get super excited and we build field. coolest things from technology will then be. Forget to ask the customer. What is the actually want? And it's like a by product. It's like Oh wait a minute eh. This product trying to see how you can use it to me. You start with what it is you want. So let's draw a picture. Destroy a process flow flow chart whatever terminology or familiar with. Let's drew a picture of how this thing we're gonNA build for you. It's going to be used. And how Oh you need to experience it so we start saying okay. I start on turning down. Maybe if it's a calculator I need to have numbers zero to nine. I I need to have plus Maynas divisions and so on for operating and I'm going to be doing you know type in a number put to operator a sign and then do another number and then it does the calculation so you start with basic of what it is doing. How is it you doing it and what you expect to see Z.? And by capturing that then you captured the use of it the USABILITY or to use a front and experience of that then that same same flow that same presentation can then be used by a software technology team to further gradual detail. All of design. So yeah you WANNA see screened with Zeros a non in some operating. How does that look? In what data would I need to designed to hold that. So he goes to your data database design a day to design it goes to your operational functional design. And eventually once you've done all that you sable deduct capture for saying did it put the logic against everything the customer asks for and the tool can say well. No actually you never did this part heart disease. There's no connection here or a dispute has a hole in it so you can actually visually see where you've expanded what was requested verses says you have gaps and by going through that and exercising that Dan you can make sure you have complete covered. If there is a question comes up. Maybe maybe you're designing so wait a minute. I don't know what to do here. Maybe there's a hole in the requirement. Oh Yeah I forgot to tell you you know. I want to be able to print this as well as just see it on the screen so there is another feature needs to be at it and this allows by going through this repetitive defition design and and verification. You can make sure you have complete cycle. Finally when you're done you go to architecture now. If done this what hardware does is this need to go to because the design is irrelevant to where it needs to go to only the code to execute -able code. It is dependent on the hardware. Not The design. So once you've done that you can then say okay. This is the architecture of one half as it hardware press a button and then it would create the executability form of that design for targeted hardware. You might use it the thing you know I saw. This would be a good one by distributing not working. Now that I experienced. I WANNA go from this hardware platform to another one. Let's go from Microsoft or HP Alpha system and see how that works now. If you don't need to build the whole thing from scratch you just select press another button and instantly happier complete solution on a new hardware going forward because everything you've done is we didn't one tool and it has traceability is used on down the road. You say you know what I was thinking king it would be cool to add these new arithmetical logarithms until log or whatever other function to the mixed. Then then you don't need to start everything from scratch you can say okay. I'm going to add this. And then the system says this is the impact of dis code. It has to be rebuild this evaluation that needs to be done. It can trace the impact of that change. Or you say you know before. I've limited myself to attend digit. JYTTE number I WANNA make it to thirty two digit number. What do I need to do? And it can actually trace back. This is the impact. This is the database partners to change nineties. Adecco discord needs to be generated. This code is currently on these hardware devices. You need to rebuild and deliver executed on so now you have complete map and you don't need to rebuild everything from scratch only implement the changes that you want to change. I mean hundred years time time somebody comes and say I wanted that crazy sally what she was thinking when she built this calculator to whole logic is there is in a human readable form. Warm not in a computer code. That's outdated in aged. Did they have to decipher. But in a logical flow to the human mind can follow pattern and understand that to me is the power of south. Sounds amazing thank you. How far are you in catching up with the conceptual part it and bringing it life? Some is super solid in my brain. It's the vision very clear. I've actually have a SAM is only the first step of a multi step vision. The idea started from somewhere completely different address in the legacy systems. That are building in our basements and then I unrealized before I could. I needed to go back and have a foundation which is SAM But then when I started talking about it I realized that the rest of the wolf that I have come across so far are not there. Conceptual did not quite thought about it did not did not understanding me so I changed tactics and I started talking about it so that could trick people to stop thinking about it applying it to their everyday life. You don't have to be a technology person person to appreciate it when your emergency services don't work you can't make emergency coal when somebody's life is depends on it you know windebank. The bank system crashes. You don't have access to EU funds to live off one. The telephone network crashes. You can't make phone calls planes cash out to discuss why people die in. This is everyday people. These are not technology people necessarily although they could these are everyday people get impacted by technological logical shortcomings and sadly I find failures become acceptable norm. Oh yeah well. That's a software to. Oh yeah that's another technology legit glitch and to me. It shouldn't be acceptable. We now have the ability to address it and we should do that now. I'm talking about it so I can can find the right partner. I want to create a quorum of partners to build this. I'm not looking for individuals. VC's to give me to cash because it's an idea and it doesn't really qualify and it's a big idea. It's not like let's get rich quick soon. I'm looking for quorum. So one leg of it would be myself self and other leg would be a university as good as I may be or I think I am pass. I'm history. I am experience experience but I'm trying to build something for the future and to me that's crucial to involve the future generation into that. They're the ones who have of a fresh thinking. They're not clouded the judgments not clouded by how things are necessarily and they're open minded and creative and did not jaded by housings are and how you can't change things but also this is gonna be. I see it as a legacy to to leave behind because because I'm not gonNA live forever. And by empowering the future generation. They're the ones who can take it beyond me. And that's why I want a university versus to be involved to bring young blood and learning and the different way of thinking. I'm trying to change the whole industry and I think it's empowering to have an an academy body involved and the other two would be my intended clients like I said we in the technology sector. We forget we build something. We're we're excited innocence. Excited I am about some and I sing is the best thing since sliced bread. It's just my vision. I before can build that I really want the everyday people who use it my end clients be part of this part of this journey to make sure what we deliver a treaty meets their needs. It is what day also vision and I don't want him to be off the same sector. I want him to be from two completely different sectors. So Sam doesn't become a sector-specific to Pacific entity if anybody's on their listening who wants to come and partner up and build a score or know somebody who may maybe interested. Please contact me. I love to hear from you. I can totally imagine. It consulting companies the big four being interested in this this would be a magnificent zing product for them. Yes no I actually think my I think enemy is the wrong word but a my for the lack of better term my biggest enemies would be technology companies because if you look at the market you know twenty years ago twenty five years ago. Whatever if you looked at the top talk companies in the world maybe it would have seen one technology company? They actually had their own sector. They were not considered a serious business now. Now if you go and look at the top companies in the world you may find one non technology company and and I think because as technology gee we have benefited from everybody else's failures every seven to ten years technology that you spend millions or billions is building gets old and you have to start the process from scratch and hardware is progressing and advancing so rapidly. We just keep doing this. And people keep keep spending more and more and more and this is why technologies are growing so fast if and when I should say some solution comes along yes initially initially gonNA spending yet more money on yet another technology that yet promises to be new and different but the long vision of some is to actually Schutte allow us to focus and allow us to rebuild and reuse knowledge and actually saved the enterprise knowledge and be more efficient. Actually GONNA turn the software industry into a circle economy once you turn something into a circular economy Stop waste you actually start decreasing expenditure on it and that's why. The technology company long-term may not be my best buddies ace and they might want to buy some so they can turn it off and throw the key away just a short switch enterpreneurship because it's also underlying topic of podcast. Although I really find same fascinating I would love to talk about for hours soon from your experience. What would it be that you were looking always up to in other enterpreneurs corners that you'll find that there was the characteristics which are thought brought those people to success? Who I think is three things? First and foremost it has to be a passion about what you're doing. And why are you doing that. Passion has to be at the core of you entertain. This is the excelsior takes. You beyond beyond when everybody tells you you know you're crazy. This is one sings the heart and it is a rough road. And it's going to keep going because you truly believe leave and understand this and this passion when I'm talking about passion is not about. Hey let's get rich quick passion but truly what I believe in what I'm doing and I would do. Would despite the fact that I know is going to be hard long road and I rather you know miss out on this fun thing so I can focus and deliver my passion. Then you need the two surround yourself with people that challenge you and compliment you not that they give you high five and say hey well done doing great. Let's go pat on the back although that is nice but people who intellectually challenged you and people who think differently to you do because when you when when you're surrounded by people who have different strengths than you and sink differently to you didn't by challenging idea new concept you constantly improving moving it and as you improving that goes to the third part which is adaptability and growth you keep improving and you adopt and you learn your grow. Oh and this is when you have the best result you can never stay put the world around us is changing and we need to change and grow with it and and if you have the passion you have the collaboration of the right people who compliment you. And then you have have to adapt -bility to absorb change and implemented and move forward as going as a continuous process to me deaths. A recipe for success sort encouraged us a fraud and printers listening. I think it's really important to here. Is Not only about the people it gives you high fives but actually challenge you and only the challenge you continuous learn continuously learning adapting. You situations people your idea towards the successful path stuck within something that you have in your head only and through the confirmation of people we just stuck in that situation. That's a bad bad way to go. Its not always nice to hear people who say oh. I don't think your idea is good because but I enjoy Elvis. Defend my idea because I believe in it but I always sit and and think through why said that. I put myself in their shoes and I try to look at it from their point of view. And there's always something to be learned from that statement either by improving my messaging. Maybe my messing wasn't clear Highlighting something that you know I I have but I didn't think of bringing it up or by changing my vision to encompass what they're seeing and I think that's a really powerful part for anybody ever if a business they do now out of my own interest ideal team would look forward to have on your team. I am a big believer in diversity diversity and equality and unlike some people that look at equality is equality numbers fifty percent men fifty percent women fifty percent black and fifty percent lie to whatever the numbers they looking at. I believe equality comes from blindness and focus. You have to be blind line to anything. That's irrelevant to the characteristics that you're looking for and focus on what is the core values and core expertise that you need to have a team only by doing not you can surround yourself with the best team and the best team in comes from having diversity of skill sets and You know ways of thinking and opinions and allowing each of them to grow flourish and contribute in their own way. This is a big thing. I'm very much against the concept that many have the equality comes from numbers because to me you'd lose at many layers you lose by not having the best that you could have had and by being prejudiced towards the ones that you could have hot and two wrongs don't make it right in my book about this happening for example the US campuses of universities where the score in order to enter. The university is different depending on which minority come from so Asians have it the hardest right now. I I As a woman in tech world for a long time I was always a minority coming from non Anglo Saxon background living in UK and US. I was considered a minority and So I was is always in that space. I was told to my face. I couldn't I couldn't earn the same as the guys who reported to me because it was a female and it could get pregnant and talk to leave and my God you know. I couldn't possibly be considered the same level as a guy I was told. I've got a job because I was the only oh new skirt that applied. I been told that I didn't get to the next level for a job because I was a female and they didn't sing. I was appropriate to to me. I always took offence at the ones. I couldn't fly so when it was still got a job. Because it's the only female I took offense to that because what could I do I turned him down. Now this lady. I wouldn't work for them because I wanted to be the best candidate not anyone in skirt but the ones quit fight when I was told I couldn't go to the next level all of interviews because I was female. They didn't think a female with suitable. I said to them I will prove to you. I'm the best man for the job and I did undated off admitted job and then I turned them down until them dead. I wouldn't work for somebody who is already sexist towards me but I wanted wanted to prove to them. They have now lost their best candidate and walked away and to me that was in listened for me and it was a listened for them. Hopefully it was a lesson for them but to me if I'M GONNA be prejudiced towards young guys today because I wanNA prefer you know. Hire women because I was prejudiced prejudice towards Dan. I haven't done anything. I'm just creating a new generation that will experience different types of prejudice zone. I will look at the candidates regardless the south whether the Manner Women Black White Muslim Jew Christian. Whatever they may be I look at their skill sets what they can bring to the team team the personality and mindsets? I not choose the best that are on the list of candidate and to me. It's a win for me and it's a win for them. Every person in leadership Russian position should hero awards Unfortunately our kids also has a time. If you wouldn't mind sharing your context where people can connect with you with social media or professional national media whatsoever where people can reach out to shirt this way is linked it. I keep my contacts there so sally M Salomon Tush you can go on. My website is smarter. APPROACH DOT C H. You can also contact me through there and I would be more than happy to hear from anybody not to give back in any way I can and we thank you for listening if you have any more questions if you would like to reach out to sell and you didn't notice the website Arlington profile. Reach out to us on facebook help and trade and also currently we now engaging also on twitter help trade one is our profile and also of course go on our website help and trade com or application which is there for enterpreneurs helping treat that to come again and that thank you very much for listening and stay tuned ten selley. Thank you again for coming over sharing your experience all presenting. Sam Is really great. Thank you for having me. Thank you bye-bye yeah.
#7 Lessons for entrepreneurs from Brendan Murray
"Hello and welcome everyone in today's episode of Helping Trade podcast where we introduce startups and enterprise behind them. Today's guest is Brendan Murray Serial Serial Entrepreneur from Australia and really excited about Brandon. Because so far he's the most experienced person we ever had on a podcast and I think the lessons of not only life but he's into perennial. Experience are sowing valuable. That it's definitely worth sharing Brennan stages yours. Please sorry kind very kind of deduction mature to to stop. I can just described about how my background Almighty is true. I'm from straighter. I came to Switzerland about thirty years ago to join the WECHAT. It came as a backpacker originally and came to Basel and had opportunity to work for the Pharma Industry ciba-geigy at that time which I did for five years and During that time I got very interested in an involved in external collaborations and I saw how it was a lot of companies particularly the when I was in the biotechnology the area would work with external cleberation eventually and quite often that acquire them will boost them so they became also quite valuable and able to contribute their own product into the marketplace. And this is always fascinating to me. Because you've got the situation where there's an opportunity and then you've got resources that can fulfil fill whatever needed is and then finance. And when I saw when seaboard line those things up that invariably something great would come from that and I go very fascinated made the by that idea and at the same time. Interestingly I got absolute despondent about a farmer in general is a personal thing. I'm not saying anything necessarily against the industry. But there wasn't info change in the industry to become now much more focused on major diseases development costs of drugs very high so someone mentioned to me. This new thing called the Internet tonette. I looked at the worldwide web thing and I thought Internet this is a cool thing and this could be an opportunity for this and I thought that'd be good opportunity to in health and health health education to help patients all those different conditions to become more knowledgeable and more able to make informed decisions about their own situation so I was doing some small software products at the time and I just as a hobby and I thought I've quit. I'm going to quit and I'm gum to start an IT consulting company and just go that direction. Which I did and it was crazy success but it wasn't the fall? It was not in the Pharma Industry at the time on fortune. Five hundred. There's a real need at that time for project management and people with IT skills but it wasn't. The area of Internet. Internet was really the thing everyone wants getting behind behind and so did several projects start off some of them just as a contractor but then after they ended I realized that these companies had a need so I started to build up a team and I had aroma team. Trouble shoe would go around to various fortune. Five hundred companies and make different types of Internet based information systems and that was good. That was a good time. But then the dot com crash happened and The market dried up. The company shrunk didn't actually vanished shrunk and and I thought well what can I do now ahead of business managers with the time and he was British he worked for a content management company at the time in Basel and we sat down within one time and he said this is a great opportunity. What was that silo? And he said look. It's time now to get back with. It it back to your D in a and I thought my DNA. What is it silent? Healthcare don't you know the it experience and you understand healthcare okay. You should find an opportunity inside that space. And that's where the entrepreneurial things started off because at the time there was a need it for unless there was a need. Actually the whole idea of telemedicine was around. I just happen to be around and is analyzing the market to see where they could be opportunity to do something being bigger than having a consulting company maybe to make a product. I thought because if you make a product it's always out there and then you can form things around that product which Steph on you know about as well as it's like a platform so I thought yeah this is a great idea and the need for money was more than I had couldn't remain unemployed with no business and then make this new telemedicine product so I was looking around. I thought I'm going to raise some money. I need to raise money in order to do. I think that the value of such a product worked and the potential and the timing was good so I started to make connections with the financial people in Basel also in Zurich. I start to go to different meetings and learn about how she even raise money. What do you do? Do you go to a bank. How do you actually do this? And eventually I got in contact with on this group in Basel called Eva and Eva were group to or financing startups. At the time they'd give to some good see capital maybe up to half a million in three quarters of a million depending on the business plan and so I went to them and I went with my day and I said okay. Here is It's telemedicine and they're all sitting there and many of them on that at that meeting were well-known in different industries around Basel. Not Us not necessarily the lodge industry. Well here it is. I went through the thing. I went through the numbers and I've said houses great opportunity and doll and they looked at it and they asked me a few you questions and then they asked me if we how much money do you need and I said well I say the number. Maybe I should or shouldn't I don't know but it wasn't amount of the seed capital amount they said. And how much should we give. How Much Shalva Company would you for this nice at ten percent of the company and they said Okay Okay? That's okay but then they want to know. What are they said to me? Okay will finance at these terms. We're happy to do that. Ah but you've got to have some skin in the game so you've got to raise ten percent of the amount we're giving you. I said okay. That's what I'll do so I looked around family and friends friends and I raised a little design tens of thousands of francs and they gave the rest of the money and then we started off on that project and it was a really really fun. Project project went for nearly three years. I guess we made four products. A real good board of directors together really good people I go next. Round of investment. Things are going really well. All the products were ready and we hit the UK market. That's where it was all happening at the NHS. Because in Switzerland was too complicated. They've got the insurance is very complicated. Takes maybe ten years for four system like this to be reasonably accepted for anyone would pay for it so that was no good but in the UK there was opportunity opportunity so we went over there the HSA some business partners over there and we start to sell these dogs. We started trials with the NHS these coming back positive and then and we couldn't close a sale we had examples where we're saving in. COPD WE would keep people out of hospital. We had a predictive algorithm which would keep people out of hospital and had very very early symptoms and then we had one trial in a hospital. One travel the coal central took after these particular patients out of our us to hand back and forth devices in people's houses to collect a survey to see what their condition was and anyway this is created saving as a lot of money. One one hospital saving a lot of money but no-one would actually pay for the N. H. S.. I realized it was broke. They say they've got money. But they you and I were competitors than their competitors in the market bigger that house and none of the most successful Bosch was in there. There was an American company in that there was some local British companies in that kanawha successful except one British company but they found a niche in H K. A like if people fell down such things and so as a result with that time. We're involved with Surrey cantonal back. And they next round of investment. I'm sitting down at an investment meeting. And they said well look seems like could the cords no being turned being turned and they got in some experts to really look at what work had been done. Had we not turned over stone somewhere probably and not everything was fine and and the chief financial officer at the time was formerly from resume and he Was Really Smart. He floated resume on the New York Stock Exchange. So the smarts was there the parks with their before. Some reason rather the healthcare industry even today If you try to move anything and maybe A. It's a bit naive to consider it. It's really really difficult and so we had. We couldn't finance company anymore. The products were made but no one would buy them except one company which is a German insurance company which was using our product for high roscosmos patients very successfully and they ended up purchasing the company and then that was the end of that venture venture by left everyone left and they took over the intellectual property. I think it's probably still running to this day. I don't know wow what a story. Yeah crazy crazy story. Not only but also by resourceful. Yeah I think so too and it gives you a little bit of I think for me. It gave a little bit of a an experienced way. Think well they're really smart people around that project and it was a fairly big vision project. I think I could have huge impact impact in so many European marketplace in the U. K. marketplace. They'll competitor which is really important. So you know that there's probably value yet failed in the place. You'd least expect nick. You know you'd think that there's something success with drug trials successful or some trial success showing value. Think it would just be very obvious that you can make make save. Save money by spending money but they just didn't happen it didn't happen except these Jovan insurance company they got and they thought they were saving. An enormous amount of hospitalization cassation costs every year. But we had frogs for COPD ASTHMA and heart failure the half every bit of risky product. We didn't want to go with that one. But the other two were her clearly bringing value and benefit to the patients and educate them as well. The patient themselves would know what they condition laws or give them very minimal feedback. It was really dumb Tausif. They'd be awesome questions. They could measure and track their own things on their mobile phones ovary advanced before smartphones ever came out and we had collaborations with Sony Ericsson. We had collaborations Swisscom. Tom Summarize in Switzerland. We had an ice hockey team sponsoring. Go ask mom. Websites an awareness program for asthma sufferers using mobile phones. Maybe a little bit ahead of its time but was a little bit of a disappointment. Talent was good and approx great. I thought well I'm really wondering what do you think when wrong. There was no acceptance for products. Could be a little bit too early tomorrow. It because I I think if you try to learn something like that to consumer base nowadays you probably be more successful but I think that the thing. We misjudged the most was just how much much time it takes for the medical segment of the market to take on something you. I've known. Companies that have had medical devices. It clearly would bring benefits and they could take ten years from the minute. It's approved for use in the market until the company turned a profit from it. So it's a at a different. I think it's at a different scale and if you're uh-huh prepared for that maybe if we had if we won one thing which I always imagine of soap APPs that insurance company maybe it would you've been smarter to try to find a partner with its reach further down the time line ups even one about competitors the were there for the long game and sold all to them. Because it's the fact we sold out to the insurance company means okay. Got One time payment. If you've partnered or had a relationship with a competitor that didn't have the product but did have the ability to go long term into the marketplace for a longer time period. Probably that would have been away but if I look at the competitors were reasonably successful at something like any of those guys sitting in the Bahamas. I think it's hard tooth and nail fairly low value sale in the end. That's what I am if I just look what they websites today. Today's case I do go back. That's sort of big picture. I get from the definitely. You certainly didn't stuck with the past. Of course you know you can't you can only learn from your failures and I also think wasn't really faded. The market wasn't ready where we too soon democracy. Could we make mistakes. I think everyone makes mistakes. It's unfortunate to have investment money lost and you convert investment money into products and services and people behind the product and services. It's it's hard to have that. Go tickle in your the founder you feel it really post I remember when the company and get anymore finance that I put in many many hours this many hours in support of business but also in support of the other board members in support of the investors that pots hidden pot. You will the found around and people look to you and they accept the and they need to feel comfortable that every stone's being turned up that there is no option option except to sell the company under whatever conditions are being offered to get to that place is also the hidden area though the entrepreneurial the business cycle when you do it without the people when you do it with other financy is the types of people that's psychological lead. I think quite challenging because I one sense you've got to get beyond your own sense sense of failure or your insensible G my dream which I started off three years ago. Snow cones to come out as hoped me included. And now you've got to go on the other the side of and say well you know really thrown everything in the kitchen sink this thing. It's it's the market. It's this if anyone got any ideas that you have different meetings and you've gotTA Altogether and much the same way you go up with the idea of the startup. You've now going to deflate. You've gotta come down together in a very orderly and good way. Some people get a little bit out the shape. Oh you know but I thought that you to me into a millionaire. Now it's like I've lost everything and these-these from private investors family and friends investors for example that convenience you institutional investors they. They've got a totally different attitude. We had the mole in the mix I think in the end we had about thirty. Invests it up the boards very important as well to be able to really manage different aspects. Because there's also the accounting of his a whole range of different things even the legalities of winding up an for example in Switzerland. This is a thing anyway. That was that. was that experience. Some of your partners co founders and investors company in the next startups and venture that you started or wasn't chapter closed. I stopped that chapter close. I wouldn't say that I was out of contact with them. I would say there wasn't any bad relationship at the end. The answer answer B.. No no real. I think that people just went off in their own direction star to go on their own things. We stayed Some of the board members and I stayed in contact cost because we went through together the investors north. They just go on with their own thing. So you sort of come down with a bit of a bump at the end you you walk out of the door one point and everything's wound up the company's stuff's gone and the company's now purchased in your home to your next thing. It's sort of like walks away and you sort of like the last guy standing dining and so they're probably a month two months combined there on the next things whatever those things would be and then he put a figure out what against your next. How long did it take to closer? Recover and move on at the end of it. I was a little bit frustrated really because I thought look I couldn't understand why there wasn't even a little bit of sales activity I'd like. It was really odd and so I thought it probably took me Three months maybe the dust settle my started to ref had the time to reflect on what had happened. Let alone thinking what am I going to do now. Should I go back and do some contract work crews cash or should I go get employed position. Should I do that. And they're interesting things because if you've been doing a startup for the three years and then suddenly you decide to go to try to get a freelance contract. I'm going to try and get this that and the other it quite present as someone that's been doing contractors being info for the loss. She is so you tend to have to aim for different sorts of opportunities and so are flicked on that for a little while as well but in the end Came back. I started to a little bit of consulting work and start to make. Some more systems is a little bit just basic activity just to figure out what to do next next so I I think probably before the next opportunity came along it was probably about four months. Maybe six months tops and the next opportunity. You came along just by child so I just just a chance phone call and then it was awfully and see. It's sort of follow his own. It was in the same sort of area it was in the area regain telling medicine and but now in the private sector and was very very odd chance meeting one of my business columnist. That wasn't a loss venture in the UK. Working I worked awesome extensively on says marketing in the can we go round a lot together and drink. Laura B. is together it was very funny Robin and we had a chance phone call with someone in the facility area and he went in. I had some idea for a product and I gave it to him. I said if you in with doctors show them this product and see how they react to it could the the basis of a new product and anyway called me up and so I just was talking to a gynecologist. He's very well known he's professional and he says at the SA- fantastic idea for or product. But it's incomplete. It should be anyway the ad this stuff and I thought. Oh that's interesting in any way. Then I found out this professor was stopped to do some research and Waldo in London and Manchester Anyway. He I met with him. He's a talented guy. Very charming and I'd talk things things through with him and he said No. Let's do this venture. Let's do this venture will do it. I'm so happy to have an entrepreneur. Someone who knows how to put the stuff together. I I looked at him. I looked at the market. He brought in some embryologist and some other people are starting to learn for the next couple of months about a really how the facility business works for is going to take dollar one from any investigation or even pitch the project and took a while to really piece everything together and sure enough there was there was a need there. The need is the facility treatment. Firstly it's in the UK so privately funded privately funded. So if you're an infertile couple save up and spend maybe API ten thousand pounds for one cycle fatility treatment thera- about fifty good fatility clinics in the UK the NHL ages touches. Hardly any of them at all. They're somewhat urinate. Just funded but the good ones you have to fund yourself privately and you have to know which one to go to because you've got no the consumer the problem one of the main reasons that the fatigue treatment fails compliance. The patient has to go through hormone treatment. Then they're gonna go get the eggs collected and they're gonNA get embryos. May they're going to get the things reimplanted whole process white cost so much and so the patient often fail because because they want to do with miscommunication between them in the clinic and It's a big stress on the patient so I can see the system which would allow nurses that look after the patients to see essentially dashboard of where patients are in the process. Look after all the forms after all this stuff and for the patient be automatically reminded minded at that time by SMS. Email of what. The situation was what they need to do. They'd see their own little personal to do list when things have to happen. They could browse literature pitcher and look at different information and have a hot button. If they're of a scare that's the hot button and someone in the clinic will be automatically informed thing was after doing telemedicine medicine layers of regulatory Dada Protection Dada Management Dot. Started that and we knew about that stuff so we could essentially put together a very very cognizant find find plan with this product will look who would buy it. How much would sell three easy? Because this professor had a network all of Europe and of different clinics and they all said great will use it make it any way they pull the money in and so he had in that case it was not institutional investors. He announced this alike quasi angel investors. That's what more than enough money to do. The product which we did and the progress cracking product start to trial. It gave fantastic results. I thought this is almost a no brainer. We're going to do really well. I expanded the board then. I couldn't Jackson he was really great. Great Mind as chairman and and he was gonNA lead now the sales development face the product and anyway things turned very odd. We start to try to do some sales also in the clinics. Where this consortium was was an international consortium and we did a trial of success with published a paper on that went to a congress and then we start to go to the album at that point? They said they didn't want to use the product which has been called and I couldn't figure out what's going on I said check in. We sat down one time and I said to check. I think let's see I don't know what's going on. This consortium right now. Let's go for a couple of London clinics in Holly Street. We can do this now and there was one which was very important. One which we you went to the sale was there. The contract was there for the Sale Anyway contract never came back side and we couldn't understand what's going on and I'm going to tell you the most incredible story I'm really. I'm not even sure she'd tell the story that you were saying to me about the shenanigans going and lodge consulting in what was going on behind my back and I had no idea about it was that co-founder of mine decided this highly valuable thing so his idea was to undermine out sales so the company went broke. Blame the team. The the development team on lack of sales of product grab Holding Electric Property under threat of legal action against outing. Wow took a while to understand what was going on and what this guy guy was doing was inside the consortium he starts seeding. Oh yes you know. This is not good. This is not good and they're not doing a very good job. That's a great thing. We should take it over ourselves salves and this was very valuable experience because you see he eh that the shareholders agreement protects you. Because you've got with the major shareholders the consortium will minor shareholders and. It's not like you can just actually execute something like that. It's going to go through a board. Orderly process for those sorts of transfer. Rush is under any circumstances at all and anyway we jack and I will work in closer than of became realized and I realized that because it was the problem when I put Jack on the board of directors because normally it was a star the professor myself and I brought Jack and specifically because I thought well Look Jack Scott the experience and there's only two on on the board if we ever come into a disagreement which is not unusual company goes going through different phases of development. If Jack's there he's got the deciding vote one share one vote regardless shareholding but what the professor done it set up two sets of hsieh's Asia ambitious the ACS had special privileges over b-shares and projected. Join the chair of the joint as chairman. We both had to give him an H.. I. Gave Jack a shot. The professor gave his so now Jack had share but he had no after work have share but had no vote on the board because the professor disagreed that he was ever Julie elected to the board and he didn't have to share from from both of us so we couldn't sit on the board essentially. We're in a situation where the company has paralyzed if the decision was made on the board hit ignore it because he didn't recognize the chairman. Then why to co whole extraordinary shareholders meeting because nothing was working he really was holding out and then I started to make threatening lettuce which is interesting and then I had extraordinaire shareholders meeting that everyone there until conference cool The professor made his case. About how this that and the other but I don't documentation there and it was obvious that what he was trying to achieve but in the end I said the company's frozen. It's going to run out of money and it's GONNA collapse vanish. Fortunately licensed since the intellectual property in and the company collapsed intellectual. Property came back to me. So the Product and all the proper development came back. And so what I did was I contacted. Affected the investors except for his buddies and dice. Those we've had put cashing nicer looking to reactivate the company. I'm going to activate the product walked and we're going to look at the end recreate. A new company will give everyone back they shared so just Don't worry about that and I spent some time working on that project. I'm still working working on it. But that's one of those experiences where a gain success didn't come for the reasons you wouldn't expect the really sounds like crash just because because if agreed of one person they cracks one person and you could be ready for everything the what he what he was doing to try to grab the company over. What's not Legally correct but none of the other shareholders challenged that so it just became frozen essentially frozen until ad ran out of cash. We then have the. There's no there's no over all UK authority at Companies House when companies. You can declare the company's bankrupt and then there's a process which will eventually to liquidate the company but there's no assets to liquidate but when it got liquidated within the IP came. Back to me personally. So I was happy with that but everyone else essentially you know. Lost their cash said again. What does it say company as as of now I put the electric becky my own consulting company and with some external collaborations with the same product? We're adapting it. For different markets for example the Australian markets are very interesting mark to adapt to the New Zealand model. so that's the connectivity on it but the more were exploring with palms to support the product locally Oakland needle investment to kick off. I don't know might need a little bit but What exactly how executive drive on four? Aw but it's still kicking which is supposed to Sukey. And there is still demand for the product so he has a great opportunity. It's a great opportunity. You're being serial entrepreneur that didn't hold you back into. I started something here as well again. That's right that's right. It's like you can escape it very easily so I think you learn as you go along and it's also a little bit your expectation that fail failures two examples a little bit about the expectation. You I have a judgment of the market and then the human factor which you can never be sure but that one that particular. Human factor was a real shocker shocker because it was unexpected his co founder. We sat down for hours and hours planning every aspect he was the one that got the consortium of clinics together. You know he's the one that did that. And my responsibilities to make a great product is the one spending the time in talking with people including excluding at the requirements looking at whether value that any any sort of prod could add validate. Elevate what it needed to do. So that's why I'm glad the IP came back because that was a lot of work that then transferred late into an actual operating rating system. I can imagine this whole thing. The process legal issues and solving. Let's take a year's us. Think from that telephone conference where where I grew as well this company. It's not gonNA move forward at all. It was some I think three years later three years later and the market moves on. Of course the good thing is that was so well thought through the people having the right people wrapped around the idea that even to this day. There's no there's no comparable product and this needs so there and and The the facility area is is very vibrant because they compete with each other. And if you've got a clinic which can offer something to patients and improve process. It gives you an incredible advantage over competitive be and the enormous amounts of cash. Because the the not reliant on insurance company. Yeah Yeah that was sad and also this the elements of this for example this opportunity tourism where people in the UK may go to Eastern Europe Group for a dinner all for the eggs to be allies and then reimplanted suicide facility tourism medical tourism. If you get your eggs and plotted day you can want to monitor. How the patient's coming getting along when they're back in the UK in the system is really perfect for that great but now I'm really mesmerized? How did you get from? I'm a company or venture which takes care of fertility business to do digital adventure which you're doing the right now. After those two experiences I thought to myself these these takes time to do these things and these types of projects and I thought well maybe I would do another one. I thought to myself after that because it wasn't the ten years expired and that's that's fairly long period of new life while the startup rolling. Of course you just working like normal employees except you were probably twice as many hours and you've got the other things as well but you expect to be rewarded the far end and so after that I took me a while to recalibrate because I was the shot you know and I was shocked off to that and I thought well maybe I should go back into studio contract again for a while. Maybe same sort of mentally came came back again anyway. I thought I was going to do something very unusual because most an easily successful thing was when I just recognized directly there's a client that has a certain I t.. Need something very basic something where decisions can be made quickly summing with a need something where I can get other people involved because I really like to do that. I like to work with without the people penn something which is a little bit incremental not too far ahead not just incremental. So I did something unusual decided I know that the market determine so I grabbed one particular former client and I said to them okay. He's the GIG. I'm going to basically look inside your marketing and I'm going to suggest various. It solutions for you and you can decide whether you want them. Not they will be chart. I suggest what stop with founders bits and pieces of Mason suggestions to them and anyway one of those suggestions quote traction so within two weeks have project so it was a fairly small projects. I started to do that and then I started to get to know. The marketing team needs businesses. Because I found that when I was consulting US usually between between probably also stefan between the technology and the business you sort of communicate back and forth and you can present the various ideas starter do all sorts of different stuff offer them. Getting different contractors introduced from bits of work so I did some patient management system worked for them at some point in talking distribution systems for them. I did some stuff for the interactive stuff in the Congress. And after you doing this I thought okay if I was going to choose any of these things where would be the most potential most need and the most fun and also where with the decisions decisions to actually decide on one of these projects. which was the quickest and it was really obvious to me that the least attractive will patient management systems because I think the patient management system was a really fantastic thing from ticket disease which I won't mention but the system was really great? It was a promotional thing so a patient goes into uh waiting room and the doctor needs to assess them on a standard list of symptoms and depending on those symptoms. You can see whether they medication. needs to be adjusted whether they need and helps with consulting so you know filling these things out in that waiting room so the idea was okay. They get their mobile phone. They can fill it all out with really friendly interactive touch thing and then it goes to the reception for the nurse. Everything's Okay and that goes down. Shows up on the doctors list and the patient comes in like a dashboard which showed a picture of the patients. Exact condition and it was all done with keeping leads all very nice in professionally done great really great app but that APP was released in four languages and the idea was that the sales staff would pick this up and going to the doctors and the doctor us and then in Germany it was launched in Germany. There are about maybe half a dozen choosing it but it didn't. It took a long time because of regulatory not reasons to get it through and then the change in the organization such a stale staff feel comfortable picked out Michelle to doctors and doctors promoted. It's a long time line. Just like I experienced telemedicine find great. That's no good. And then information management was more about in a bread and butter stuff information distribution management tracking of sales and different stuff like data and the bread and butter stuff. A lot of companies can do that but the thing that really grabbed me was interactivity and education that Congress because I realized that firstly everyone has to show themselves off of Congress. It's the time when a company really wants to shine not only to the to competitors but also to those visit the whole image thing is incredibly important. They this company said we want something big there are medium sized company and I said well be and they said big. We want something to catch people's attention we did all the digital installations on the booth over the last couple of years. Anyway so I thought okay. Hey let's do big. I looked at the booth design and said let's do a big interactive thing on a screen. We're going to use. It's going to detect people. It's going to detect a move can interact with it and give the marketing message. What is the marketing mission? I think this is the key thing is in all of these segments important in things to understand the marketing message. What is this company trying to say about their product that year? What's the key thing? Because you're not going to sit down and look could brochures and junk like that. They go to the to the meetings a hero about the medicine. The opportunity is to find one ten second message. What is three capsules? Tain out product thing which happened to be a dragon three capital grant. If I did my research well actually award with if I did. Do this dragon was a runaway success and totally blitz everything else around and there's a lot of fun as really a lot of fun so I thought look. I'm at the point of my life where I just want to go with my own group organically grown business. My own people coast up Patik relationship with my class because I really enjoy client contact and then everything else follows you know. The financial rewards are always agree their responsibility to shareholders. I don't worry about that. I get to meet really interesting. People I get challenged on helping people try to get their message out using the huge array of digital technologies that are available payable to date outstanding outstanding and then I go to booths at medical congresses. And I'm sure it's in every congress you go to and it's like it's in the freaking stone age you know. The application ACACIA. Things like visual artificial intelligence and visual recognition of things body movements animation interactive gaming. Predictive Steve Algorithm is to make people really getting gauged or to quickly find information that will engage them and to measure this. It's watershed because no one's doing. Not many people can do it. When I got that award I went to the presentation awards in London all the big house with that? I go around as talk with all these companies other award winning companies as well and that's how yes I know about companies. I did a little research to try to understand with this whole digital thing and Oh yes we're a digital agency that say anyway. I'd found around that ninety five percent of them all doing really well. They our digital agency that the digital to them means that they come from printed media now to digital media and so the forward pre much that path. So they'll do for you detailing eight now do a video for you. How those two things but I think? The next generation thing is to juice dozen engaging interactive educational situation so people get something when they go for their coffee break and the booth becomes something that people you want to see. All what's going on here. They see something that they think. Yes I want to. I want to engage with that and that's at the same time they get their message. Also instant brand recognition mission absolutely in some brand recognition and that was one of the metrics measured with that Dragon. was that they. They went to post says they didn't analysis people remembered because of the Dragon and they associated the dragon with the parked amazing so the big dragon was just a wonderful wonderful thing. Yeah amazing unfortunately we already passed the time that we plant okay. Nevertheless we as of now mentioned three companies and your experience with your free ventures out of six or seven that you did altogether so how about we meet for another guest. Well if people are interested I took my war. Stories are so interesting. I I and I'm happy to talk about anything Stephan. The you'd like. I really enjoy enjoy being out of share my experiences but I think it's just an idea I think that What I see is I hope that what I have learned? Negative or positive can help for those who are today's entrepreneurs us absolutely and those because I've talked about negative experience that I have had on two of those ventures but there's also some positive experiences and I know people have been very successful in adventures and people who have been in the middle so can the Dow could go anywhere but I think everyone has pretty much the same sorts of lessons Tesla and I think it's I I sometimes think to myself. I had that advice when I was starting. Perhaps it would have been helpful. I don't know absolutely from my perspective. I would be more than happy to have you here for another week. Passed probably did not in that time piece of bread I can take okay. Okay thank you very much time and experience is there any loss message share with our audience. Also think he's definitely opportunities to meet we do today and just share and talk. Oh Columbia today I think the only suggestion I have is if you entrepreneur doing. Start up his do it. You know it's a IT'S A. It's a great experience. It's not hard to be reasonably successful. I'd really isn't and it's got a lot of ups and downs but if you love the idea of being independent working in small company I'd do it all again. I totally do it again. And I can only encourage people to persevere definitely thank you again for being on the podcast. were wonderful guest and your experience which is blowing my mind to begin with and I'm looking forward to have you on the podcast again and we can also speak about specific topics as for example mentioned mentioned before the podcast organic person investment drove et Cetera. And I think your experiences so invaluable that our definitely finding value in it a a happy to come back and visit any time Steph and thanks again for the opportunity to day also. I would like to share your contact details on our platform. If that's what I was issued go ahead linked in and I'm showing people more than welcome to contact me if they hear anything of interest or have any doc need to reach out to me. I'm always available and I'll be more than happy to mention Your company and keep the context also your current ventures and previous ventures as. Well that'd be great. Okay thanks so much for your time and I'm looking forward to see you again. Okay great thank you a great day and listeners. Thank you for listening and stay. Tuned for the next day was great. I really appreciate it today. Thank you Brian.