20 Episode results for "BIA"

66: Dispersed Teams - 3

Software People Stories

09:03 min | 11 months ago

66: Dispersed Teams - 3

"Is Your Fixed Income? Truly fixed income does it provide diversification income and risk management for your clients at I'm F S. We help advisors deliver these essential essential fixed income find out more at mfs dot com slash fixed income continuing with US series on what it means to individuals and organizations to be working in dispersed. More Mike Golic Shiva. Nitra share some thoughts and insights as we heard them from people whom records and others around us. I've included my views on what can be done in little ways to help find the light at the end of the tunnel and get through from where we are today. Listening we normally talk about deems being beams being self organized teams having a lot of freedom letterman the economy and they're also adopted in different ways of working. The team is GonNa kid but now in the current situation. They are in the same time zone. Same City the concept of bills coming together being located this changing. The team is now dispersing. They're moving pretty much in their own. Directions like any normal dispersal now. How have you seen this disrupting the teams that do associated with and if it is not disrupting then? There are something that we can learn. How have they retain going in the team? And the second part is about how to handle at a team level as well as individual limit. Brooke pretty much on your own but not alone kind of concept right pope. You truly implement that so under question of dispersal. The first that came to my mind was a biology lesson. Show we talked about dispersal of seats. And it's a very natural phenomenon and the natural world that said we are also part of that world but in this context this dispersal or is plus teams at least to me is digs on a very different meaning right now. In fact I want to call upon one distinction here. So prior to this outbreak or the pandemic as it's being called teams were dispersed and. They seem to be working cohesively independently and as self managed teams but now with this pandemic in the background. I am sense thing that there is some change. It's not that many people have been able to articulate. Few people have said that something is different and the environment too just this morning when I was talking to one of the senior leaders at one of the organizations that I am coaching at this person said I am sitting in front of the window in my room at home. I'm even to see the trees and buildings but everything is so still and silent so I'm wondering if everyone's will so is this a disruption. I feel it as oh over the past few days. I've heard from several people. Friends family and folks within my professional let seeing that do even in large organizations all do work from home had been distinct as a one off situation perhaps in the context of business continuity planning or as a bland exercise on those lines. What they seem to be experiencing today is an understanding that this mode of working may need to continue for longer than expected. There doesn't appear to be an end date in sight so the folks working to keep the infrastructure going are already experiencing situations where. Vpn's going down. People ARE HAVING TO SETUP. And deploy specific instances in the cloud. Where work from home can be enabled. So that's on the infrastructure site And having to constantly monitor these systems on the other hand that Sh- lord of people in fact in Bangalore who call something like a BG accommodation tenement. Where four five people bunking in together and St Now when you go to that context I actually heard another friend. Tell me that this is a small company has about between one hundred and fifty and two hundred employees. They have nearly fifty percent of their workforce. That's come from smallest t smaller towns and these are the two primary ways in which the state or places that they call home so one concern that the CEO and see or or have in their mind as usually these places are not adequately furnished. Perhaps this is just a few mattresses because people just need a place to go sleep in the night and come back to welcome the money so then what's happening to the economics is the place of place that people can work from do. They have adequate seating arrangements audit comfortable to work from home. That's one thing. Second thing is even have adequate infrastructure. Just this morning. I heard that a couple of people today are having a fight at the PG with the owner to get Wifi up and working and since there are several people in the BG that are struggling to access. The WIFI bandwith has become a constraint announced. The awarded rely be able to submit my look dimes. On some I get a sense. That pressure is building up. So yes in. Having heard these stories I feel it as a disruption. What does it and by the way this is owned be with. It and tech companies are more knowledge worker related. I've even heard some stories from people in the manufacturing industry. How would these companies doing it? I think that is something that we can keep a fight for not that episode but coming back to what is it that be can do what is it that dispersed teams and can do at two levels at team eleven and at an individual level. I think deem level it is keyed that be beholden each other when I say each other. It's a combination of you know listening carefully while each one is speaking ensuring that everybody on a call speaks at least once super example. Someone didn't see anything. Explicitly asked that individual a question. It could be related to the project. It could be related to their how they're feeling there will be anything just to make sure that everybody on a call listen to each other or is there for each other could also setup explicit time to brainstorm on what the best feasts former and basically form a circle of trust in some sense of ritual circle of trust and hold each other doesn't matter who takes the initiative ideally if lead us can do this and hold teams together? I think that's great. I think a lot of people are also looking for assurance that may not come very easily in this context if BP can do it please do so now at an individual level. I think checking in with yourself. Every day is a good thing to do When you wake up in the morning knowledge what is it that you are feeling at least yourself and say okay. I I am not feeling okay today and then let me see what I can do. An even. If it's the one or two things that you can get done for the day get that movement going or get that action going. It is helpful to keep the ball rolling or keep a small momentum going forward moving forward so keeping up with the daily routine whatever that might be and be. I've found that This season here in Bangalore's beautiful one so if you live in an area where trees you'll notice that fresh green leaves are out there. Mango trees are beginning to bear. Fruit the famous jacket and and Double Bia. Which are pink? Lavender and yellow colored. Flowers are in full bloom. The roads so I think for me. At least that's a positive sign. I hope this is helpful yesterday. And the light at the end of the tunnel and this led lining also that I think while we are all under stress confused. Not Knowing how long this lasted what will turn out. I think it is very important to hold each other like you said the rituals o'clock trust and be happy to keep supporting each other stable. Stay safe we could get over this. Yes Sir Thank you. Please share your experiences on what's working and what's not this way. We hope to help others and ourselves navigate this time in the best possible way. Do right was with your insights and thoughts at podcasts at B. M. Hyphen bubble consulting DOT COM. Can your fixed income. Stand the test of time markets change but the role of fixed income. That's why from more forty years. Mfs Stay true to our traditional approach. We call it essential fixed income. Find out more at mfs dot com slash fixed income.

Bangalore US Mike Golic Shiva PG Brooke CEO Double Bia fifty percent forty years
Episode 11- Honesty

Soul Yatra

04:12 min | 1 year ago

Episode 11- Honesty

"Alexandra here. Hd Smart Gassed Rg Hay fever breath interaction with the up shut Eve Daikin's army but marsh getting son shut up to a brand new show soya. Tom Sawyer Atra Soli Hamas in the geeky subset yet the most important journey of life you cut soul yatra midday passage Honda message. I Shan't Heke jump jump shooter. Who who take Tom demere sheriff fashion. Cut Cut Mortga. John shut off Gubbay out of fashion the USA take it got his AAC Martha Ekraj Amiga Roger Just Pool Organic Bajaj Shock automaker who lobbied house campus to Buddha who those nick comapny roge got the bundles shucks excluding Subsea Coop sued at pool organic truck time Razania Jimmy Beach Bacteria in Bijl League artigue Aikman Bod sub hockey. We saw this up Bakari pour liquor preserve Kit Gula gained. Come on come on put it Dennis Holiday coupes would pull daycare kushwaha torpedo ski nother Bundy peppery Joe Gum Logic Rod Smith Pool. WHO'LL CASINOS ARE NEON PUT AMARA POOL. Hey you got gum lollygag. Those this Kaha Mark Martin men aecom hookah many bijal gum limit Allah Xm L. Correct Cod lock your snape Cavani Bia clicking source cool to keep out bodies communiqu loan ms Raza. Doma horita lashed Gary. Yes hockey look Mozambican of heat is Anita. Bill gophers manager beads. The antenna was together with a Polish border nichols at Spooky sub harmony Viki on that shuts hair body sealy a cushite shut off honesty Gubbay out of fashion. The was the Gilkey Bundy could the gas hobby whole module Dawood Ibrahim Sharif dosed shoney's partner Sheriff Employees Sharif humps a- for life good Shirakata Munzer heard Panicky Caro Assira shorty who des come out cokie Mondavi income I sub SIM mobile has sold Yadda my work life coach Charlotte but monning you absolutely here H._d. SMART costarred Yay tar fever introduction.

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EP #105 Life After Child Loss with Emily Graham

Build A Life After Loss Podcast

39:01 min | 2 months ago

EP #105 Life After Child Loss with Emily Graham

"Welcome to the build a life after loss. Podcast uplifting support for your grief and healing journey. We're here to encourage your hope in the future and strengthen your confidence so that you can build a life of purpose enjoy. i'm your host. Julie cluff certified grief coach. Hello my friends. Welcome to episode one. Oh five life. After child loss with emily graham. I am thrilled to introduce you to my friend emily. We actually met while we were doing our certification programs to become grief recovery specialists. And you'll hear more about that story as we as we chat. And so. I'm i'm excited to introduce you to her to introduce you to this to this Episode this is going to be airing just before thanksgiving and actually the tuesday night before thanksgiving so the night before this airs. I'm going to be doing a facebook. Live at build a life after loss with julie kloof you can go to facebook and build a life after moss with julie cliff and i'm going to be talking about the holidays like how we can if we're grieving how we can really just get present with our expectations and desires for the holidays. And what it's gonna look like and how to reduce our anxiety around the expectations of it and so forth so anyway. If you're listening to this that's already aired can go on facebook and it it will be live. It's living there so you can just go on and watch that so. I'm hoping that will be super helpful. Not people to listen to okay so let me introduce you to emily emily. Graham is a bereaved parent. She's a writer and a grief coach when her seven year. Old son died unexpectedly on christmas. In two thousand fifteen. She felt her life spiral out of control. She began sharing her grief story on her blog. Just playing house which became a cathartic outlet that created connection from there. She launched after child loss now. Emily empowers child loss arrivers with the tools and support. They need to take the next step forward. Here's the interview. Hello hello friends. I am so excited to introduce you to my friend. emily graham. We met at a class. I think she's got a story she wants to tell about meeting at. We met actually in a certification class for the grief recovery program. We became grief recovery specialists at the same time a little over two years ago. So emily introduce yourself. Tell us tell us all the things. Thank you so i i do. I want to share a story. Which i will kind of tie into my introduction. I met jewelry as she said. We went through our training program together and I had a lot of us. I don't know about you. I had a lot of a hawes that i took away from that weekend. And you were part of one of the first ones that i had men. I saw at the start of any sort of program. They're going around the room. Everybody's doing their introductions and I remember there were a couple people ahead of me and you had sort of your traditional loss of appearance of friend divorce things like that and it got to me and my seven year old son died unexpectedly. And as you know when you bring up child loss. There's sort of this shift in conversation and so even though we're all kind of talking about loss it was all of a sudden like. Oh my gosh. we're talking about a kid. And i remember telling my story and then it moved on and you were like a one or two down and then you told your story and yours you know you said you had lost two children and again. The room just gets even heavier. And after those introductions When i had this like really big hasso one of the first couple of guys comes up to me. And he's like. Oh my gosh you know. I was telling my story about losing my father. Whatever the case was and he's like And then you told your story and suddenly. My story didn't matter like it. It was like yours was so much harder right and i was like you know what i had that feeling when you told your story because suddenly losing one child wasn't as bad as losing to and i had this like major moment that i'm like how crazy is that in these moments right we're not supposed to compare losses and this was the importance of not comparing losses because how easily we all invalidate our grief or just dismiss our own pain simply because we think off somebody else. Has it worse as though that was sort of like a really big ship for me to just be like you have to own your own grief and you have to care about other people's for even learn from it but not let it disrupt your own journey. I guess really really important they. That's so important. Such an important key piece and even in our own life right because had all these different types of losses. So we can't do just because we've had one loss that that feels more impactful than another doesn't mean that we shouldn't go through the recovery process of the Bia's losses exactly so. Yeah it was just sort of. That was one of my first. You sort of one of my first really big aha's in my own process of healing And so just my quick introduction. Then everybody's since. I kind of jumped over that I am a brief parent. Obviously i am now a grief. Coach like joy I companies after child loss Early in my grief journey. I shared my story openly Blog at just playing house. And that's where i shared you know my first few years of grief just kind of raw an intense I've found a ton of connection out of that. It was very cathartic to sorta share our story. I have always gone from the perspective of full vulnerability. We're gonna share the good the bad the ugly because those are the moments that create that connection. We need to kind of build that bridge to heal and to move forward. And so that's sort of how i got into the space I am very passionate about supporting parents in finding that path back to life. You know after you've experienced the loss of a child. Yeah share a little bit about what happened with your son. Got seven and i know it was very unexpected and it was under really unusual circumstances. It was horrible time of year to just so it was christmas. Two thousand fifteen Started out as any other christmas right. We're going through our traditions We got to the point where Sort of that afternoon the day before he started to have kind of an ear infection right and it was one of those things where you're like here. We go. we're gonna have a kid that sick for the holidays and so we were rushing to get him into an urgent care Everything was fine. He came home seemed to be perfectly fine. Went to bed that night. I will always say he went to bed. Healthy kid and within twelve hours He was beyond repair. We heard him wake up around eleven o'clock. We had just sort of gotten all of our christmas stuff together. And so you know. Here's somebody awake. And i'm immediately like get to them before they get in here and see the tree and all this sort of stuff and he was sick in the bathroom and so it started off as sort of stomach bug stuff Extreme fatigue he kind of rapidly lost a muscle strength and it started to get really kinda strange and his fever spiked. We couldn't really keep anything down and by two. In the morning christmas day we were loading him in the car to take him to the er Tests sort of into mysteries with more questions. They really weren't sure what we were dealing with. And we were being transferred to children's hospital and so in all of this stuff ray were were thinking. We probably have an overnight trip to the hospital. Maybe a couple of days in the hospital rate are mind never goes to what the end result could be and we reached a point literally by. Don't know it was around seven. Am christmas morning We couldn't wake him. He had kind of slipped into a coma and we. That was the last that he was actually conscious. we kind of facilitated the move during our move to children's hospital Was sort of a rapid decline. His pupil stopped responding We reached a point where his brain had swelled so extensively that there was nothing that they could do And so we went through that next. You know ten hours or more knowing that. He was alive because he was on life support. Machines Running every test that we can to try to figure out what is the cause. What's going on And at the end of the night you know were signing papers to remove him from life support so it was sort of a life changing twenty four hours. Wow wow what's your. What's your son's name. Emily cameron cameron k. You know when when i met you at the grief recovery training that we went to and you told a little just a brief snippet of your story and i realized it only three years why i just wanted to wrap my arms around you. I remember you saying that to me that it was like. Yeah it opens wounds right when you may you. Yeah it opens those wounds. Yeah it's just like. I can remember the three year point and i can remember still being in that place of just site lots of questions. Lots of lots of things to figure out but you know. I was on my way to healing and i knew that and so it was just it was really inspiring to me to see you there and talking about it and Sharing already with an audience. I i remember you saying that you had actually started your blog before this happened with cameron and it just like the whole thing shifted. Yes you this experience. Tell us a little bit about that. Shift what it did so Kind of my my pre loss life right. I was climbing the corporate ladder. I was doing all the things you're supposed to do to get ahead in life and my role was eliminated. It was about Eight months before he died. I was ready to deliver our third baby and had a couple of months left until she was born. And we were like you know what we're going to hit pause on life and so we did and it sort of caused me to have this internal midlife crisis of what do i do. Now right. i've got all the time. I'm home with kids like this isn't what i'm supposed to do so i started writing and it was one of those things where i just sort of started. Writing and cameron was always my biggest supporter. He always wanted to be involved. You always wanted to know what was going on. And i sort of felt like it was kind of preparing me to do something else right when he died I just felt so pulled to share our story and literally within it was like early january so it was within a week or so of him dying for me i had to write. What was in my head you know how in early grief it plays over and over and over and over in your brain. It's all you see it's all you think about. It's all you hear about. And so i had to write it and so i literally wrote it out and i said to my husband. Look a wrote this. Would you think if i hit publish. And he was like you do what you need to do And so it was sort of a release for me. I think Which just spiraled from deir right you get people who reach out to you that will express you know. Your story sounds so similar to mine. Or you know i experienced that same sort of thing and you sort of put words to things. I haven't been able to put words to and that just pushed me to sort of keep sharing right. It was one of those things. Where if i'm feeling this. Somebody else is feeling this or has before. And so there's that value in creating that connection definitely definitely what a. What a blessing you were two people in your ability to share early on to share in those moments in those moments of just that extreme pain and confusion and all the other emotions that that come along with it. Tell me a little bit about how your journey has evolved. So i you know. I just sort of started sharing a feeling pool to create a supportive space for bereaved parents right. I would look out into the landscape. What existed and i felt like there was so much in miscarriage and infant loss and people aren't really talking as much or i didn't feel like i related to a lot of the stuff that was being shared because it wasn't sort of that young child loss and so i just felt whole to like go into that space share about that space. Normalize it right because there's so much about grief that i think we are conditioned to believe and when we're standing in the middle of it it is not anything that you would ever expect it to be like and so for me it was like i i felt language. Failed me right all of these words and use terms that. I thought i could apply to agree. Experienced didn't really measure up. And so i was trying to adjust how i used terms or change how i thought about terms and putting that stuff out there. I'm like if we can get this kind of stuff out there. Maybe it can help other people. Have these seem ships than their perspective. Right and create that space. I'm consistently surprised. And i'm sure you see it to by the number of people who have lost a child at any stage that will come and say it has been years and i've never talked to anybody about it or you know we don't talk about it anymore and to me like they're bottling up all this pain in his hurt and they get into an environment where they can share openly with other people that get it and it just instantly creates this space of healing and so for me. It was like we need to do more of this right. We need to have more of this out in world. Sure so tell tell us a little bit about the things that helped you along the way or even the things that looking back. You're like oh. I wish i'd done that a little differently like what. What really helped you in the healing process I i always think that there's a few key things that i tell people you have to figure out One of them is your belief system. I think that a loss can totally shatter everything. You ever thought about life everything you ever believed in you. Sort of have to go down this rabbit hole of. Where did my child go. What happens after we die You know what do i really believe has happened. And i spent a lot of time in that space Just looking for answers right. What resonated with me. What didn't I had a lot of you know. I was doing reading. I was looking for other blogs of people who have gone through similar experiences. I also just. I internalize a lot right. I bottle it in and so for me. Writing was that way of kind of releasing some of that stuff so for me. Writing was critical in my ability to kind of process things that were happening And so i think those were kind of spaces. That i spent the most time in i also will say a medium. Reading was a game changer. For me i know. People are very hesitant or how people have different varying beliefs on on what that actually is but for me. I had things come through that. Nobody could have ever known like they were conversations. I had with my son in my head. I never even told my husband's on my husband who's sitting on the couch side me. She's saying to me. You know these things and i'm going. Yes and he's going. No and i'm like yes it's like. This is what i've experienced so for me. Some of those things were game changers. They think we're sort of you know you have to validate that belief system is and then you have to decide how your relationship continues because for me. My relationship continues with my son. Even though he's not here in the physical world I one hundred percent believe they are still standing here beside us. Cheering us on. They are watching everything. That's going on their hearing right when we think and and directed at them when we talk to them They're hearing those things. I get signs. I know it sounds crazy to people that don't get it but my son sends me twelve. My son sends me hearts. And so i feel like we still have that relationship and ice cold onto that everything. That's wonderful i love. You know there's a couple of things that you sit in there that just want to like kinda pull out and one. Is that decision process right. Like we have to decide is is. You can't just keep ruminating in what on all the questions get to. We get to answer the questions. Napoli go out. We find it. What's that go out and find those answers. Yeah find those answers and then just like hold onto that and make that a part of who you are and don't question it like trust yourself. Trust yourself in your decision. Making you know the idea of having a relationship with him still of seeing these little moments where you're reminded that he's still there. I think that's super important. And also this idea of release. some people are writers. Some people aren't you know for me. The writing process wasn't really a writing process. I've got more of a writing process now than i ever have before. But we have to have a way of release. We've got to have a have the to pull the plug out and allow some of it to to move out. Keep it moving exactly. Yeah beautiful i mean. I think what you've shared is just beautiful is just. It's great so tell me a little bit about the pitfalls. Like where did you find yourself lake. And because i can look back and i look at my own experience and go boy like if i if i would've known what i know now. I wouldn't have spent so much time like doing this or that. What what are your thoughts on that i. I had a lot of key moments. I what back. And i have a lot of those laws. That happened along the journey. Those perspectives shifter's and one of the early ones for me. Was i always say grief has an eye on it and i like the meaning like i am the most important person in my own grief journey and so i would have family members calling me and just turning their grief right and i felt like i was in a police where i was supposed to make them feel better. And i'm like. I'm not in a space to make you feel okay about the fact that my son died like i need to only be concerned with myself and it felt very selfish And it took me a long time to kind of wrap my brain around being okay I am such a people pleaser. Or i used to be a people pleaser and so it was all about. Make sure everybody else's okay. Make sure everybody else is happy. And so i've learned a lot through this journey. It's taken me a long time to sort of reach a place where i can say i have to put myself i. This is how i'm going to do that right. I had to think about self care differently. So self care became like learning how to say no Learning how to put boundaries learning how to distance things that were toxic where things that added stress to my life which really was kind of four and for me. I felt like i was the type it would be like. Take it on figure it all out. And in those moments i was like i'm too depleted. Like i have to just do. I can do and eliminate any other aspect of stress from my life and so some of those were really hard decisions. Some of those were difficult. Things that are still ongoing right as you're talking about relationships with people or You know changes in your life or knows you stand back after your child dies in. You are forced to live this life that you would never choose that you don't want at times and you're like am i supposed to you know. Get back in here and say yeah. Let's do this because that's back choice like you said it's sort of making that active choice of life goes on time continues things move. You don't have any sort of ability to change that. But you do have an ability to control the quality of what that looks like and so being able to shift that and really embrace the grief that you're feeling i sort of my mind has gotten to a point where i almost see the grief experience as one of the most beautiful processes that happens right. You are so cracked open and raw and the emotion. Like you're just so in tune with all of that. Stop that. I look back on it. And i say wow that is powerful. I couldn't agree with you more. And i think that in the middle of it. We have a hard time understanding that we really do. If current me went back to two previous me and said hey look this is going to be one of the best things that happened to you. I'd be like you're crazy as whatever you want to hear that in early grief right and i remember people saying oh. You need to talk to this person and i was like. I don't wanna talk to anybody that's been here like i wanna sit in this. Feel the pain Yeah well it almost sounds like when you were describing that you knew that time where you had to kind of really have to simplify you really have to you have to their the priority is is taken care of yourself that becomes the priority and it's a season it's a season and i can see it in your own life like that was a season of. I've gotta bring it all in. I've got decide what's important to me. I've got an answer. These questions have gotta be here for me. I don't have a lot of extra to give out to anyone else or anybody else's drama or anybody else's things that are happening. But then i look at like where you are right now. You're giving and giving and giving and so what a beautiful thing that like we can. We can be okay like we give ourselves permission to be where we need to be at any given time exactly i think there is this evolution. Right where you have to realize that that early depressive all consuming grief while grief never really goes away. You're always going to grieve loss of your child. That early stage should go away and you should be able to reach a point where you can find that happiness and that sadness rate can coexist and come together and you've got you know the ability to to live and still grieve like those can come together and i always said before loss. I experienced emotions like time and after loss like everything at once and so that was a process right of learning that. It's okay when you have this happy moment. And you can still see the sadness in it right where they should be standing or where they should be but yet it can still be a happy moment for sure. Yeah and that does take time like to make that shift to to change that that perspective. Did you find yourself like having the house in the perspective changes but then like questioning them. No so much question I felt like they were just this huge. Like whole my. Gosh how did i not see this before. I had one of the one of my other. Aha's from that weekend. That we spent together was i had. Somebody asked me about my son. And i started to go through some of the things that i started to tell them that i was so focused on the end of his life And for me. I was like wait a minute like they asked me about my sign. Not about my son's death. And i that was like a big moment for me to be like. I'm focusing way too much energy on his final moments right there leaving such an imprint that they are completely erasing everything else not that. I don't remember those things because they don't think you ever forget them. But you had all of these things that suddenly somebody asks you. And you're like i don't know how to answer that question because i'm so focused on this part of it so i started to notice those things i think. That awareness is kind of the first key and retraining. Your brain to think differently are to be like whoa. Wait a minute backtrack. This is what i can tell you about my son or this is how i can answer this question so i spent a lot of time like i would have those awareness and then i would start practicing. How do i answer a question differently. Or how do i do something differently and So a lot of those aha moments were really big changes for me. Yeah you know. It's it's our emotions that create memory. I mean you know the the most impactful than most emotion filled events are the things that we remember. And so it's you know what you experienced the so normal and natural because the moment of his sudden illness in his death were so heavy. Any motion right that that becomes this is. This is what this was what i feel like. It's so beautiful about healing. Grief is that we can start to see the whole picture because that moment doesn't have so much power that then we can start to see the full picture we can. We can remember the happy times and have it be happy to remember that we can. We can experience those moments of feeling them nearby and it can be impactful because we're not so consumed exactly. Is that been your experiences. Well yes one hundred percent we we get so stuck in those final moments right they gloss over everything else and so it is. It's a matter of re-training your brain. It's a matter of retailing. Your story like rewriting what you want people to know about it or what you want to remember about it so that you aren't so focused right mean your energy follows your thoughts and when you're constantly stuck in the the most down a moment of your life the rest of your life is going to feel that same emotion or that same you know That power is gonna stay there and so you need to be able to kind of pull yourself out of that and and you know. Look at the big picture for sure and this. Is you know as we talk about this. This is not an overnight experience. It's not like oh you know. I need to like some. Somebody might be listening right now and go. Oh yeah i'm really stuck in this final moments. Don't think that you're just gonna make the decision that you're no longer going to be stuck in that final moment and tomorrow is going to be different. It's process is a process. Yes but that awareness right. You've got to have that awareness and you've got gotta be able to stop yourself and make that choice to say. Okay now i'm gonna do something different. This is what i'm gonna do. Yeah yeah i love that lava. What other kinda tidbits or are there. Any kind of final not final. But you know other things that have come to mind that you're like i need to. I wanna share this piece. Something that helped you along the way or helping you right now. I think that the biggest thing is just to know that every moment of grief that you have like you will grieve the rest of your life in different ways every moment that you have temporary right you need to just breathe through it a lot of times the anticipation of the things that are coming in be far harder than the actual moments you're going through I always say if you buy. I've been shocked at milestones right things that you think would be milestones aren't or you'll hit a day and you'll be like oh my gosh. Today's a milestone in. You never would have expected that to be a milestone so really. It's being able to embrace that. Lean into it Know that you can do really hard things right. People are in this and they're like i don't know how i can survive it and i say you are already surviving like you are already doing it. And it's just a matter of heap doing it because you are eventually going to look back and you're going to be like wow look how far i've come. I really am surviving. I don't think there's like that one moment where you flip a switch and you're like i'm good. I'm healed today. i'm good. I think healing like. I will always consider myself to be healed and breathing at the exact same time because i believe healing is an ongoing process. Right you're going to have you know you're gonna hit a ten year mark and you're going to be like devastated and then that will pass and you kind of keep going and then in another five years you might hit another moment and you're just deep in grief and i think it's just knowing that i can come out of this. I will come out of this. They just need to feel it in the moment. Because that's what i need and take that next step forward whatever it is. I love that perspective of not giving those moments of grief support power that it becomes a sometimes we can just like we can think oh. We'll have progressed as much as i thought i had. What's wrong and then we make it heavier than nets to be and said it just sitting with that moment in realizing it's just a moment be okay with exactly where you are today tomorrow. It might different likely. It will likely it will for sure for sure so tell us emily. Tell us how we can find you where people can find you. What what's the best places for them to go. I have as i mentioned after child loss. Is my coaching business aid. You have a lot of great free resources out there for people So that's after child. Lost dot com. You can find my social media there. We've got a youtube channel Some facebook i also always will reference my blog right shared my early grief journey because they think that helps with people who are maybe earlier in their grief process so just playing house Do facebook page there as well. So you can find all of that through that page and people are always welcome to send me an email or reach out Emily at after child lost dot com. Perfect thanks so much for being here. It's been it's been fun for me to for for us to reconnect. Absolutely thank you so much. Thank you this. Interview has long overdue as excited to have a chance to talk to emily and grateful that she took the time to share her story with us. I can't even imagine losing a child on christmas day. I mean losing a child is just horrific anyway as we all know but christmas day. Oh my goodness. I'm so grateful for her bravery and sharing her story and giving hope to others. I was thinking about my program today. You know. I work with with clients one on one and we go through a process of working with their grief and helping them to understand their grief. And if you've listened to the model of healing that's the framework that i use is working with clients and i was thinking about it today and thinking it's more about rebuilding life like it's working with our grief and figuring it out so that we can rebuild our life. I mean that's the important piece right is that we're still here no matter what's happened to us. We're still here and to be able to figure out how to pick up the pieces to rearrange our life again so that we can so we can show up so we can be there for ourselves so we can be there for our family and friends who love us so that we can really just come again. I mean that's what i've experienced myself was just this coming alive again. It's a. It's an exciting prospect an exciting process to rediscover ourselves to learn the power of forgiveness forgiveness of self forgiveness others to learn the power of gratitude to learn the power of being able to reconcile. What's happened in the past because we can't change it can't change what's happened but we can reconcile it. We can resolve. We can work towards a place where we can. We can feel whole again see. I believe that were already whole. Were already whole even on our in our even in our pain in distress and are the depression anxiety. Whatever we're experiencing detoro grief we're still whole. It's just being able to rediscover that again to get out from underneath the weight. The weight of grief get out from underneath the weight of all those heavy emotions. That's what it's really all about. So if you haven't already talked to me. I really highly encourage you to go to the show notes and click on the I can't even remember what it's called schedule. A discovery call. Hyping is what it's called you'll you'll be able to figure it out but click on that and schedule a time. It's that easy unless just talk. Let's let's talk about what you are experiencing 'cause that's where the magic is. The magic is in applying these things for you. Not just the universal principles and ideas. But it's like hounding you apply it. How do you make it work in your life so that you can enjoy a fulfilling life going forward regardless of the difficulties that you've experienced in the past. You can rican reconcile. You can rebuild. I am living proof of that. You know i read excerpts from my book on the podcast a couple of weeks ago. About like where i was during that time where i felt like just such heaviness search despair and such guilt and shame and it was just a horrible place to be and because i know how horrible it is to be in that place. I just don't wanna see anybody else there. And i know it's just like it's part of the process but i want more than anything else to help as many people as possible like i have big big goals as far as helping people to work through their grief so that they can live again so that they can enjoy life again so they can feel joy. 'cause i feel joy in my life again i feel purpose. I feel like. I'm not weighed down by grief. Even though i've gone through some hard hard things. I mean just even last night i was reminded my niece. She has such a beautiful way with words. I i'm always so jealous of people that are so eloquent so able to express themselves but she she wrote something about you know all the difficulty that her family has seen and and of course that has hit me too. Because it's my sister's her family is it's everything that they've been through and i just started kind of recounting everything that they've been through the last few years and everything that i've been through all the things that my mom had been through and i just really got completely overwhelmed with the gravity of it all. It just brought so much back of where where. I was where i could find myself still today. If i didn't find answers so important to find answers you guys. I love you. I believe in you. I just want you to know that. Have a beautiful week

emily graham Julie cluff julie kloof julie cliff facebook emily emily emily Emily cameron cameron cameron Bia Emily one hundred percent moss deir Graham coma fever Napoli confusion youtube
Talos Takes Ep. #2: How to keep your fancy new IoT toy secure

Beers with Talos

04:59 min | 1 year ago

Talos Takes Ep. #2: How to keep your fancy new IoT toy secure

"The towels takes the quick take. podcast where our researchers break down the latest topic and Cybersecurity for everyone from the C. Suite to the frontlines a welcome to another episode of Taylor takes my name. Is Nick Bia Seaney Amy. I'm a threat researcher with Cisco Talos and today I'm joined by my colleague Earl Carter now that the holidays are over with. You're probably sitting at home enjoying that new tech gadget or whatever you got and we're going to spend a couple of minutes today going over some tips for the things you need to be aware era and the things. You should probably do to make sure that. You're using these gadgets in a secure manner I before I get into that though a quick point about buying tech There are a lot of options out there when you're buying specific piece of technology whether it be a camera computer whatever. The case may be A.. Make sure that you do your research. Buying the cheapest option isn't always going to be your best bet Especially from a security perspective. A couple of things that you're gonNA always want to be aware of are are they providing regular updates. Do those updates contain security notes. Things that they're resolving vulnerability wise in generally. Are they a long standing. Reputable company a lot of times. We see these companies. Offer these gadgets. And then they quickly disappear and you're left with a piece of hardware that doesn't have any software updates being provided and the software updates are actually one of your best friends you could have. They not only protect you by giving you updates vulnerabilities that the vendors have figured out out that are in the software but it also ride you new functionality fix a lot of the existing bugs just making the software run much better and in many cases unless you happen to have the benefit auto updating software. You're going to have to stay on top of that and make sure you update your software to the latest version. And that's something you just need to do on a regular basis to make sure that the software is in its best fashion and also the most protected against attacks that are out there and one of the first things you always WanNa do whenever you either. Install L. A. New devices new software. You want to change those default credentials because if you think about it if those are the credentials that are published in all the documentation. Everybody in the world knows those with those credentials are so if you don't change them everybody will be able to use those same credentials to get into your software and do whatever they want to your system and you know. That's one of those alternate red flags. If you bought something and there are credentials that you cannot change. Those are the ones you have to use. That's just a red flag that the sulphur probably got a boatload load security problems and you probably want to think about take it off your network and replacing them with something more secure and that kind of leads into another point here just because a device can can connect to the internet doesn't mean it should the best thing you can do is ask yourself some simple questions you know. Does this device depend on Internet. Internet connection is it required is their functionality. That is only available to you if the device is connected to the Internet. And then you know think about does it actually need to be continuously connected or is it something that you can just do periodically. There are so many devices out there. Today that provide internet connectivity. That don't necessarily need it. This is just some of the things you need to think of when you are going to connect to the Internet in your house. Especially you're actually building your own little network. Think think of it like a company you want to decide how you're going to segment those devices. You may allow computers to be living on the same segment if you will but you. May you decide. I don't want my refrigerator on that same segment with my computers or the same segment with my television. There's so many devices that are getting connected naked. Now you want to isolate those that they can have less of an impact on the other devices in your home. And that's a crucial thing to think about. Because it's just your basic security protection you want to isolate it so that it can't doing damage to other things on the network there and you know keep in mind that when you do allow a device to connect connect out to the Internet. It could also be leaking information that you have. I mean think of something that ask for commands are they leaking other stuff the recording on a regular basis up to whoever provided that device so they can see if you set a certain word. But what are they doing with all the other information to the captured in the process. So you always want to keep an eye on what data you may be losing by connecting these devices to the network. It's a great point and look honestly the real point is year. Make sure you enjoy that new tech that you got but do it in a smart and secure way take basic steps that you need to help make it be a secure an enjoyable experience. Thanks again for joining us for another episode. Italo takes join us next time where we spend a couple of minutes talking about the things that are top of mind to us.

Nick Bia Seaney Amy Cisco Talos researcher Taylor Earl Carter L. A. New Italo
11. What's a Campaign Recap & Why You Need It

eCommerce Badassery

20:38 min | 8 months ago

11. What's a Campaign Recap & Why You Need It

"Welcome to the commerce assery podcast, the place for scrappy female entrepreneurs WHO WANNA learn actionable steps and strategies to grow the traffic sales and profit in your e commerce business. I'm your host. Jessica Coster, a twenty year retail veteran, who spent three years, is the only employee of seven figure online store. That shit was crazy. I know exactly how it feels to do. All the things and I'm sharing everything. I learned the hard way, so you don't Pactel. I may started this business by accident, but supporting bosses like you lights me the fuck up and I am so stoked to see you grow. Are you ready Babe? To Welcome back to the e Commerce assery podcast I'm your host Jessica and today. We're GONNA talk about a tool. I like to use after every campaign in my ecommerce business, even if it's as small as a Memorial Day weekend, Promo, or as big as black Friday or the entire holiday season. It's June twenty twenty. We are halfway through the year. And we WANNA start planning for the back half of the year. And this is the perfect tool for you to sort of assess where you're at and what you might WanNa. Do moving forward before we get into all of that. Let's talk about the fact that it is June of twenty twenty and this year has been a roller coaster. Some very terrible things some very amazing, wonderful inspiring things, and I wanted to just take a moment to acknowledge that we're probably all struggling a little bit right now focusing on our businesses right so we've seen months of lockdowns, people losing their jobs, people getting sick, all of those all of that drama from covid nineteen and for the last week or so from when I'm recording this episode, we have witnessed a movement. The black lives matter movement, the uprising, which most of us may be have never even seen in our lifetime or have not seen in a very long time. And it has been. Insanely amazing and overwhelming and exhausting for a lot of people. And, if you are feeling like Holy Shit, I know I'm the CEO of my business, but I cannot focus on anything. That's okay. Do your best. That's all you can do is do your best. Continue to show up for your customers your audience. Lead with your heart. It will go a way. As. You're trying to figure out. What's next. This is a tool to help you do that. I will have a free before you that you can download. It's a template for this campaign recap that I'm going to go through. You can get at ECOMMERCE Bat assery dot, com forward slash eleven, and you can scroll down, and it'll be right there in the show notes for you as well. It'll be Google doc that you can copy and then continue to us over and over again for all the different campaigns in your business. So does set the stage for today's episode. A wine you to start thinking about all the marketing activities you do in your business from the holiday campaigns and social posts to your paid ads whatever discounts you run. You spend all of this time planning creating content setting up promos running ads all the things you go through all those motions. But then what happens, what do you do after that campaigner? Promotional period is over. And for the most part, because we're all just kind of flying by the seat of our pants, right, we just kinda move onto the next one you need. Don't give much thought to what you did before because like who's got time for that. But I encourage you as the CEO of Your Business to make time to look back and audit what you did. So it's really important that you understand all of that time energy and effort that you put into marketing. Your store is time well spent and that you're getting a return on your investment and the time of your team that matters to. Because you're paying them. So, this will let you kind of sit back. Gather the data reflect. And figure out what you want to do or not do moving forward. So call this campaign recap template. You may have heard me refer to it as a campaign post mortem, but basically it's just a collection of all the important data for a specific amount of time. Like I mentioned this can be as simple as a memorial day weekend, sale, or as big as h- The holiday season. Even maybe you WanNa do one for the whole first six months. Of Twenty twenty. And if you are listening to this, and it is no longer twenty twenty. This is all still relevant. I'm just using that as the benchmark while I'm talking to those who are listening to it in real time so on this template. You will record the dates of the campaign and any promotional details that Iran so maybe you had a twenty five percent off sale. Maybe you did a buy. One get one half off. Whatever those promos that you did. Maybe you had specific. Category or brand features if you sell different brands of you're you're buying things wholesale and reselling them versus having your own product, whatever it is that you did that with special during that time, and is different from just your normal day to day business. You'RE GONNA WANNA record that on here, so you're gonNA see numbers like your total revenue. How much traffic you hide during that time? What was your conversion? How many transactions your average order value your units per transaction your return customer rate, so you're going to have those high level numbers. And then you're also going to record the results for each individual Promo that you ran any brand feature category feature, etc. I also go through and we'll compare it to previous period if it's a brand or category specific things, so let's say I am doing a feature on a specific brand. And I put them on. My homepage featured them in an email and I talked about them on social media. Will now I WANNA know if all of that extra effort actually helped me sell more units or make more revenue from that brand, so I'm GonNa also record either my last year's numbers, or maybe it is if I am recording this for two weeks. Maybe I look at how much of that brand is sold the two weeks before that so I wanted to see if. If there was any increase because if I'm just selling the same number of units, and if I'm giving a discount on them and I didn't sell more than I sold the previous two weeks like. Was It really worth all that extra effort like sure? Sometimes, it's fun to feature a brand. Maybe it's a little collaboration that you do with them or something like that, but is there something else you could have spent your time on instead? Maybe so I want you to get as? As granular, as you can based on your specific promotions that you did features that you did I'm also going to look at the traffic that I had from all of my different channels, so we'll look at email. Social Media paid media referral organic traffic, directing traffic, which is people just typing you're you are Ellen and I want to record my results. During this specific amount of time this way, I can see like okay, so email drove the majority of my traffic and sales during. During this time and my pain advertising while I didn't lose money on it right would. It didn't really drive a significant piece of my business during this specific timeframe, so maybe I know for next year leads us holiday as an example because guys. It's only six months away maybe I know next year I'm going to put more effort into my email and work on optimizing that and do like the bare minimum for my paid advertising because you to double down on what were? And pull back on. What doesn't you hear me say that all the time I know? But doubled down on what works and pullback on what does it maybe you worked with some influencers, and so you WanNa? Look at maybe your referral traffic. If they're a blogger. Maybe you WanNa look at your social traffic if they were just promoting you on instagram and see, did you see a lift? Lift during that time. Did you see a lifting traffic? Did you see more revenue and look when you're working with influencers? It's not necessarily always about that Monetary Roi. Sometimes, it's just about business -bility and awareness. However you go into it. Make sure that you're actually getting that out of it, but you won't know unless you sit down and analyze the results and mind you this is. Your regular weekly reporting that we talked about a few episodes ago, this is specific to this particular campaign that you did and what information you WANNA. Put on, here might be a little bit different than what I have on this template based on your business, so maybe you want to track things like hey, you know what I put this feature this new category. Category on my homepage, so did I get any more visibility to this category, or maybe you brought in a new brand right that did really really well, but now you WanNa going compare the results from the rest of your brands that you already had or maybe it's just by product if you are all your own brand, but did this new product start to? To cannibalize everything else, or did people just by that? In addition to what they were already purchasing, so you want to try and get a handle on how all of these moving parts affect the bottom line of your business, and so when you sit down and you look at the numbers because you know the data doesn't lie, it makes it much easier to. To sort of visualize and figure out what is moving the needle in your business, and where you WanNa, spend more of your time. In addition to all the numbers, there are three open ended questions that I want you to answer every time you create one of these, and if you have a team whether it's your customer service, people, whoever does your fulfillment internal? Turmoil doesn't matter I want you to talk to everyone who has a hand in your business, because they're all going to have a little bit of a different perspective than you do, and if there's someone else doing the customer service, and they are that front, facing and getting that direct feedback. They're definitely going to hear things that. Maybe you didn't hear because you're not having those conversations, so the first question is what went well. That we can repeat. So this is where you get to really celebrate your winds. What was super awesome? My customers loved it. It drove an increase in my business as it worked out really well. We totally WanNa do that again, and that can be anything from a specific promotion. Social posed certain kinds of emails. We can use this example from you know. The the Cova time for instance I saw a lot of companies got a little bit more personal in their emails. Right started to add a little bit more messaging Kinda from the heart, giving more of a voice to the brand and just kind of talking to them about hey, like were all in this together right and in all of the. The feedback that was sort of going around on the Internet like Klay Bia was doing a poll every day. That something I did in the emails I was sending, and there was a very positive response to that we could see the increase in engagement within the email and sales on the back end of that, so that's something that you wanna record and night. You WanNa keep doing because it worked really well in your customers were really connecting to that. The next question is what went wrong that we should avoid so this is like what got fucked up and I'm going to use black Friday. Weekend as an example because I have very fresh examples in my mind of running out of bubble, wrap and having to go to the office supply store on Black Friday to ship orders out not great. That will never happen again because we're always going to be prepared for that so when you're thinking about the what went wrong. It's like what really went wrong. Did your emails not trigger tissue? Forget to set them up. Did you set up a discount code wrong? All of those little human error screw-ups didn't plan didn't double check. Check whatever it is because when something's really big like that and you record that makes it really hard to screw that up again right? Because now you're going to like check three times four times instead of just once or twice record it. It's okay, we all screw up by. Nobody wants to put that shit in writing, but record it, and then the last thing is what should we do differently? What did we miss and this is where life back customer feedback is probably GONNA come into? Play the most right because you'll see. For instance were customers really confused about the Promo you ran. Did you have a lot of questions about that? Did you not communicate your shipping cutoffs well enough. DID PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND? was there something that a competitor did that was like? Wow, that was really awesome. I should have done that. was there a trend that you didn't capitalize on? was there a specific item? A lot of your customers? We're asking for an you didn't have it. So what should we do differently? What did we miss? And the trick to making this work is to keep them all in a safe place. Put them all in a folder together and make sure that you're reflecting back on them for each of your new campaign, so it doesn't necessarily mean like you don't look at holiday until next holiday. Right? Look at look at it at the next campaign that you create and then start tweaking and making adjustments to what you did before so that you can do better the next time around the other place that you can make notes of some. Some of this is actually right in Google analytics, so when you go to like the source in medium acquisition report in Google analytics, and you have that time line along the top rated that line graph. You can actually add annotations in there, so there's like a little Arrow that if you click it, it will open up a section that lets you add an tation, so it's basically you put the day and just put a little note of something that you want to be able to reference when you're comparing data later. I will use this for anything that I. Know How to significant effect on my traffic or revenue something like covid nineteen the protests things like that are things that I would annotate in there. Because maybe you're not always going to remember the exact dates if holidays depending upon where they fall. Maybe you did a really big specific promotion. Something like that. You can annotate all of that in G. A. as well so that you have that quick. Quick little reminder. If you say hey, why do I have this big drop in traffic or revenue compared to last year? Maybe there was some outside influence to that that you can reference really quickly so like I mentioned. There is a Freebie for today's episode Goto ECOMMERCE. Bat, Asri Dot, com forward slash eleven. The link will be in the show notes so you can have a template to start with and make any edits as you go refine. Refine this process. You Know Your Business Better. I'm trying to make this as general as possible to help as many people as possible. But what data you're, GONNA WANNA track is going to be dependent on your business. Of course having it's so important to analyze your business on a regular day. And I think it's even more important right now. There's so much happening in our world, so many things are changing. I hate to use the word new normal. Normal, but there's definitely going to be some new normals happening in a lot of different aspects of the world that we live in and customer behavior is going to change, and we need to adapt and innovate along the way, so stay up to date with what's going on in your world around you. Keep your finger on the pulse of Your Business and keep kicking ass I will see you on the flipside. My friends have a good one. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. If you like what you heard I'd be so grateful if you'd leave a review on Apple podcasts and don't forget to subscribe, so you never miss an episode, and if you're looking to surround yourself with more product, entrepreneurs, who totally get your life right now, get your booty on over to the ECOMMERCE. Battery. facebook group can't wait to see their until next time ecommerce friends stay bad ass.

twenty twenty WanNa CEO Jessica Coster e Commerce Pactel Google facebook Iran Klay Bia Cova Ellen G. A.
#B118 (bhang to BIA)

The Dictionary

10:57 min | 9 months ago

#B118 (bhang to BIA)

"Hello words welcome to another episode of the podcast called the dictionary. We're at the top of page one eighteen for those who are keeping track. Yeah so let us talk about the words. The first word is Bong B. H. A. N. g. It is a noun of from fifteen sixty. Three a mildly intoxicating preparation of the leaves and flowering tops of uncultivated hemp. Also the one eight definition for hemp the word hemp and it looks like also the one seed definition for the word hemp and then it says compared to the word marijuana or also Haschisch. This is a Hindi word. Bong plus an do word Bong. They have very very similar words. The Hindi word has a couple of accidents on it. The urgency word does not and those both mean hemp and a many two three three or so weeks ago mentioned that I actually have another podcast where I have interviewed people about what it's like to be high on the marijuana. I'm just trying to be silly but I do. Actually have that podcast. So this is a this is relevant to that okay. Next we have Bondra B. H. A. N. G. R. A. It is a noun from nine hundred and sixty five popular dance music originating chiefly in England that combines traditional Punjabi music with elements of disco end hip hop so this is from the abby word bomb gras. There's an M. at an N. Bomb gras which is a kind of folk dance. Maybe I can find an audio example of this next. We have beryl is a barrel something like that. Be H. A. R. A. L. It is a noun from eighteen. Thirty eight any of a genus of goat-like bovid and mammals of the Himalayas and western China having a bluish gray coat bovid. I assume is a related to so a goat. Like cow memo. Maybe we gotta find a picture of this guy and genus name is pseudo ass- P. S. E. U. S. next we have be H C all caps now from forty six one any of several. Stereo isometric no stereo so merrick chlorine derivatives C six H six C l six of Cyclohexane in which the chlorine atoms are all attached to different carbon. Atoms number. Two Synonym is Lindane or line. Dane L. I. N. D. A. N. E. is is from Benzine hexachloride next is B. Hd all lower case abbreviation for a bulkhead feel a sneeze possibly coming on next. We have be H. L. all caps abbreviation for one bachelor of Hebrew Letters. I had no idea that there would be a bachelor of Hebrew letters. But there's next one makes more sense to me number. Two Bachelor of Hebrew literature both are acceptable. Next we have be an all caps abbreviation for Brunell hardness number and that is similar to one of the last ones. We had in the last episode. Now we have bowed purry or Bosch Bosch Purry B. H. O. J. P. U. R. I. With a capital beep. This is a noun. Oh I think I forgot to mentioned a barrel barrel. That is a Hindi word. Forgot to mention that before all right so Bosch Pori is a noun from eighteen. Eighty four an Indo Aryan language spoken in western Bihar or Bihar and eastern are Pradesh in India. This is a Hindi word. Bush Kerry from Bo spur. Which is a village in Bihar and of course apologies for mispronunciations? I think we are well past that. I HAVE MISPRONOUNCED. Many many of these words next. We have be horizon. The first word is just a capital B. Now from one thousand nine hundred eighty eight. A subsurface soil layer that is immediately beneath the a horizon from which it obtains organic matter chiefly by alluvial not illumination but illu Vientiane and is usually distinguished distinguished by less weathering be HP lower case abbreviation for Bishop next is B. H. T. all caps. It is a noun from nineteen. Sixty one a fanatic antioxidant C fifteen h twenty four o used especially to preserve fats and oils in food. This is beautiful hydroxyl toluene by bi. So there's a few different so this is just a word. The next couple are prefixes so this one is a noun or an adjective from nineteen fifty-six six and we have these synonym bisexual. Which I think is just really within the last couple of years. Maybe that is not the appropriate word anymore. From what I understand now we have the prefix by B. I it is the I form it is. It's just a prefix and it also doesn't give me a year one A. It's just a word to that's the definition to which as in bilateral one be coming or occurring every two as in bicentennial one. C. Into two parts synonym is bisect to a twice or doubly or on both sides as in by Convex to be coming or occurring two times as in biannual compare to prefix semi semiannual number three between involving or affecting two specified symmetrical parts and specified was in parentheses as in Bi labial for containing one. Missing link no containing one specified constituent in double the proportion of the other constituent or in double the ordinary proportion. My brain shut off did not even know what I was reading as in bicarbonate for we have the number two definition for the prefixed Di di Di as in by fennel. This is a middle English from Latin. And it just says. There's more at the prefixed Twi Twa. All Right now. We have some usage information for this prefix. Many people are puzzled about bimonthly and biweekly. Which are often ambiguous. Because they're formed from both senses one B and to be of the prefix by this embiid. Embiid BEAUITY has been in existence for nearly a century and a half and cannot be eliminated by the dictionary. The chief difficulty is that many users of these words assume that others know exactly what they mean and they do not bother to make their context clear. All you gotTa have context. You got to have context so if you need bi monthly or biweekly usually leave some in your context to the sense of by you mean and if you need a block of Texan I get confused. And if you need the meaning quote twice a you can substitute semi for by. Oh that's the end of the sentence by annual and biennial are usually differentiated. So don't get confused by by monthly and bi weekly or it is easily confused so pay attention or ask questions or if you are the person using them give some extra context because what I'm understanding is it could be biweekly. Could be every other week. Basically which would be essentially twice a month or bimonthly could be twice a month see. That's where the confusion is. Biweekly could also be twice a week. Bimonthly could be every other month moving on to the next form of by it is also Baio. Biao it is number one life living organisms or tissue as in bioluminescence or biosphere number two biographical. That's the definition for number two and the example is by. Oh pick or biopic. I- always I say both in my head I think it's bio-pic though so. This is from Greek. The word BIOS which is me a mode of life and there's more at the word quick which I still don't understand why all right I think we're going to do a couple more. Now we have the symbol by capital B. I and that is a symbol for both B. M. U. T. H. next is be a caps. This is the last one for this episode. It is an abbreviation for one bachelor of Industrial Administration and number two bureau of Indian affairs. And what is going to be the word of the episode? Well I think I will probably pick Um but I will pick bong the first word as the word of the episode. I hope you are all doing well. And you know this is Aaron on sixteenth or something Illinois officially has been pushed back to May thirty first or through eighth thirty first in terms of our sheltering in place. I would not be surprised if it goes past that or well past that. Because you know the things aren't really getting better all right. That is all I have to say to you. I hope you go. And you do the rating and the reviewing. It really does help five stars but then you know say. Give me some constructive criticism if you want. I may or may not listen to it. What else share share share? Please tell people about it. And until next time this has been spencer dispensing information goodbye.

Bihar marijuana Bong B. H. A. N. g Bosch Bosch Purry Di di Di Bosch Pori Himalayas N. Bomb Bondra B. H. A. N. G. Lindane England Brunell China Cyclohexane Embiid BEAUITY illu Vientiane bureau of Indian affairs India
That's the Dream

Android Central Podcast

1:39:08 hr | 4 months ago

That's the Dream

"Hello and welcome to the android central podcast. My name is Daniel Baiter. We are recording this. Only a couple of hours after Google's launched night in event on Wednesday September thirtieth twenty twenty. So. We're GONNA dive right in and we have three. Amazing. Intelligent people to help us, figure it all out. Joining us. Hi. Out of Houston, with skyway on how are you not too bad. It's been a couple of episodes. Yeah, you've been. You've been busy. I have we've been trying to chase you down but Glad you're here also here with us our wagner welcome back. How are you? I'm good. Very happy to be here. It's been a while. You have a lot of things to say about the announcement today. So excited to hear them and rounding us up is Joe Marring who is also? right after this, going to head to a target to pick up his Co. cast with Google TV. So he'll be the one doing the review. So. Let's dive right in because we got a lot to get through we will start with pixels. This was not a surprise nothing announced today was actually a surprise except for a couple of the software. Improvements but let's talk about the pixels. We have two pixels, the pixel five pixel for five G.. Artists off anything catch your eye about these two devices walk us through what your kind of early impression is of of this duo and how compares to Google's previous phone releases. The obvious thing for the Google. Pixel. Five is it's not even trying to go for the thousand dollar eight, hundred, nine, hundred, dollar category. The way did last year which I'm very, very thankful for 'cause. I don't really think that last year's Pixel was worth eight, hundred, nine, hundred dollars and the Pixel five looks like it actually justifies its price tag has we still get a ninety hurts display we still get we finally got a wide angle lens on a pixel. Camera Woohoo And we five G. and we've got the IP sixty eight rating we've got wireless charging that showed finally be regular and not. Weird in Glitch Ian Anyway the way it has been for the last two years. So happy to have a pixel that will finally wireless charge at top speed without feeling like it's pulling teeth. and of course, we also have the colors I mean the the orange last year with the Pixel for Pixel xl was okay I mean, I'm Pumpkin lover I'm a I'm a Pumpkin seed lover. So anything Halloween issues a cool color but this this green color for the Pixel five is darling and I need cases in that color immediately. So it's sage green this is a new I guess we we could have seen the writing on the wall from the Mint Pixel. Buds. That were announced last year but green does seem to be Google's color going into twenty two at the end of two, thousand twenty well, also the Mendez, just a very different shade of green compared to the sage green. Like the mentor minded me more of like the purplish pixel three, a and the The Mint Stadia Control that they had. I guess that's fair. I don't really looking at my stadia controller. I have I have the the blue with orange hot with orange highlights I. feel like it's just it's interesting. Right? Like Google always does something with colors and this one sort of sages. Cute. It's makes. It just it feels earthy and in a way that a few few google products. If you google phones, I guess have in the last couple of years. This is definitely a year where. Feeling a little bit more. Close to nature is is a nice thing when everybody is stressed all the time and. Potentially. Having a phone in your hand that calms you down is not not a bad thing. Soothing it's. To. Cover it with a with a case but. You know most people are going to do that anyway. Well, that's what clear cases are for. I'm just very here for this new trends of I guess everybody this year of doing these like Pastelle soft colors. Big. Jason of Turquoise Teal and sage just give me give me more of that in everything really yet phone calls do not need to slap you in the face with how old they are although I will say the cloud read for that Galaxy s twenty F E is looking. Nice. The. Green looks good but I will say I had a lot of love for the offensively deep blue from the first pixel the orange on Pixel for like those are really colors but it is interesting to get like a a very different like aesthetic. I guess from these new phones like I'm all for Google try a new styles and seeing what works for them. Elliott. Or that? Yes, it's. Face it was. So it was so loud I couldn't deal with it, but it was so pretty. It was like looking into the ocean perfectly clear day. I hope you're ocean. Doesn't look like the Pixel one did that looks like radioactive ocean I don't know maybe where you live but not not where I wanna go that's not a holiday destination. That's more like. Outside of Chernobyl where people go to take photos of like. Bright Green water because it's good for Instagram I, don't want anything to do with that. So obviously, the Pixel Five, we have the black version we have the sort of sage version. None of the hardware specs were surprised this thing leaked months ago those leaks were reinforced and reinforced again, and finally today with the launch. We just have exactly what we expected, which is good right I think the sixty nine price. Is something people are going to be. Quite, happy with I don't think anybody's. GonNa. Complain that this is this phone is too expensive. It's interesting that Samsung. Announced the Galaxy S. Twenty F e last week at the same price. The this does seem to be where the mid range is settling right now or as high auto you put it the recall the premium. Mid Range or the budget flagship or whatever you WANNA call it but it does feel like this is a. You. Know we have the Super Premium Galaxy note twenty ultra. Galaxy, full to I. Phone twelve pro. Max Whatever they'll all be thirteen fourteen hundred dollars and now at seven hundred dollars, you're getting a really good value phone without a lot of compromises and and let's actually talk about what you aren't getting with this phone because. I feel like the compromises Google made especially after hearing them explain the reasonings. Makes Sense Yeah I mean I. I think really all your. The only feature you're really losing I guess is is the eight, sixty five plus or just having whichever process might want. This is going to have the seven, sixty, five G. in it So it's nothing crazy high end, but it should be plenty for basically everything a pixel does right like the Pixel has never really been about having the top end specs or anything I. I'm really looking forward to the fact that this is going to be the first pixel phone that I think I've ever used with a reasonably sized battery. It's like four, thousand, eighty, million times as I think you're losing immediate again it's it's the it's the processor You're not. You're not getting the most rams, only six gigabytes but achitects a Gig on the five. Six on the four or five g in the foray which six feels like enough honestly I think so I mean I i. guess the only things you're losing from last year's phones There's no more slowly which means more face unlock. No more of the motion sense. If you really use that which I think maybe tens of people will be disappointed about the loss of that I liked it. But I agree not not a lot of people bought the phone anyway to appreciate it, I mean I I, love the face unlock itself but the gestures were just not at all my thing they just went off on accident too often for me. And I guess the the only other thing you're you're losing the edge sense, the squeezing dementia active edge I activated that way too often taking cases on and off of my phone yet it's one of the things turned off on the Pixel for. So I'm not too upset about it especially with like the twenty fi fan edition comparison like I've seen. I'm sure people on twitter are gonNA, take it and be like, Oh, well, Samson's phone is the same price and you're getting the eight, sixty, five plus sixty five. So it's like automatically the better deal but like as I used the Motorola edge earlier this year, which is seven, sixty five and an eight gigs ram that in like for for like. The way I use my phone for like slack twitter a few games here and there like as far as I can tell, it's it feels just snappy as a sixty five would and when you combine that was like a ninety hurts scream which already gives you added smoothness. They're like I don't think most people will notice like a up performance dropper, BIA? Left out by not having like that. Slightly extra does the added horsepower if they win the sixty five. Million let's be real. How many people actually need a flagship smartphone in their lives and twenty twenty like we hit the point where mid ranges. So long as you have a good camera and you have enough power to where it's not gonNA glitch up the second, you try to swap between three or four APPs simultaneously Seven thirty in the regular pixel for a like I used as one my daily phones in it. It does everything I wanted to you at the sixty hertz screen in respect processor built. It feels good use responsive at it runs the APPS like you don't need an eight hundred series snapdragon processor to to have a phone these days, which is awesome. I haven't looked gal twenty since the moment the pixel came in. Well. That's that's interesting to know. I'M GONNA have to get get Jerry that phone. Now he's GonNa he's GonNa. Force me to send it. He's going to force you to send it to him. I'm sorry. Also include a mountain of cases with it because nothing will make him sadder Oh. Yeah. That's that's exactly what we want. We want. Jerry. Lewis in our in our slack channel 'cause you said some amount of cases that fell on his head where are you being sarcastic because I really do want that Actually yeah that wouldn't be. That would be entertaining me so. Make him on box all of them. So Terry is is on board. I'm ninety, nine percent sure she would she would be onboard with that. So let's let's do it. All right. I want to talk about this so. As we're talking all the press that Google did in the run-up at you know right before the launch is coming out and one thing that Rick Osterloh said to the BBC is. What the world doesn't seem like it needs right now is another thousand dollar phone. Obviously, no one anticipated the pandemic, but we actually did think that the world was possibly headed for an economic downturn and it only further emphasize our point of view that this is the right thing. So. You know obviously in hindsight that is great messaging Google and who knows how how accurate that is right if Google finalize this hardware months ago, presumably more than eight months ago before the pandemic hit, this is a convenience narrative that Google can use, but Osterloh is not wrong. Right phones are expensive. It's clear that the Pixel for a is good enough for most people and the pixel four, a five G. and Pixel five. So I think I think we can. We'll talk about the forty five genus but that feels like it's a concession to carriers who just wanted. A five G. Pixel, right? It wasn't so much that Google wanted to make a five G. Pixel for a and we have. It on good evidence that the Pixel Five. was originally going to be called the Pixel Five S, and the Pixel for a five G. was going to be called the Pixel Five. So those devices have five G. but then in a briefing, I just had with Google it was on the record so I can talk about it. the company admitted that it thought the Pixel for five G. had more in common with the four a than the five and therefore changed the name. So all this to be said pretty confusing but Google, at the end of the day has a lineup that doesn't go from three, fifty, two, thirteen, hundred, it goes from three, fifty to five, hundred to seven. Two to seven hundred and I think that's a pretty good range of value. And most people who buy a pixel know. That really isn't about the specs. This is a a phone about experiences, I and the things that Google out it says it can reproduce for the most part in software. Yeah. The the forty, five G. Like it's a the branding isn't great and it's kind of a confusing device to launch a new four, a model alongside a five with me at the first foray come out in August But I think the the compromises made that four, ninety, nine rice or really smart because like. I'm kind of bummed. It doesn't have wireless charging, but I have to imagine that still kind of each thing that a lot of people aren't GonNa care too much about you're getting the seven, sixty, five G. which gives you five G. for whatever that's worth but you also get a little performance boost over the regular pixel for A. and then you get the camera, which is the exact same one that you get into Pixel five, which for a lot of people is probably one of the biggest upgrades compared to like the Pixel four older pixel or coming from. So like if you don't care about ninety screen or wireless charging, which a lot of people probably don't like most average consumers are not gonNA think twice about losing those who features to get most of that Pixel five experience for two hundred dollars less. Weird branding or not like. It's a really interesting device especially like when you see carrier deals and stuff, it's GonNa be really hard to ignore. Do you guys think the they're the decision to move over to an ultra wide lens instead of a telephoto? Do you think that was made sort of after mark? Levin left Google since he was kind of the head of the camera tech for the Pixel four and basically told us on stage that that telephoto was more useful for what they wanted to do. It short I think yes. I think that. Mark Levin. Was A he's a man about data right? This is a guy who cares a lot about Meta data and. From a consumer facing feature perspective, a telephoto isn't that useful but from a data perspective, a telephoto is much more useful than a in an ultra wide because you get. Death data from it you get a ton of. When you combine it with the accelerometer and the other sensors and a phone, you just get a better sense of how you use the phone and Google Super High Resmo D-. Doesn't need a Telephoto, but obviously benefits from that data. So my guess is that. Not Did. Google get a ton of usable Meta data from Pixel for users to improve super high resume. On the Pixel five in the four, a series. But there. there. There was probably enough pushback from people who didn't actually want telephoto and wanted an ultra wide that they're like, okay. Let's try to reproduce. The telephoto experience in software as much as we can. And try to keep costs down which is definitely why there are only two cameras on the back here. I'm over there only being two cameras on the back but yeah that was the biggest disappointment in the pixel for me was not having that why England's for whenever I went to the parks and tried to take a picture of you know. Take a picture of the castle or take a picture of the Millennium Falcon in it's like, Oh, I have to actually like pan in order to get the solid one shot. I wonder to dislike with telephoto in general like if people are really like attuned that being a feature just because like for forever, you been able to digitally zoom on a phone in like I don't know if like with a pixel four or whatever phone you're talking about if like they understand that you're getting a higher quality pitcher from zooming in when you could technically do that unfolds with a single sensor like with an ultralight is immediately apparent. The the upside you're getting to that 'cause you can't replicate that with a primary camera lens telephoto just never really worked out great for me on the Pixel for. I'm just I'm not a big fan of telephoto photography in general at least not on the phone but I do think it's Kinda funny that you know like last year they sort of brought out the pixel four and they said, well, it only has a two X telephoto. But we you know we're using all of this different computational data to give you a further range zoom up to I think five, maybe ten tax, and then you know companies like Samsung while way come along, they're like, Hey, we can get up to one hundred x because we're using a much closer telephoto. And now it's you know it's sort of like it just kind of given up on that. They're like. All right. Well, we'll just we'll just stick with two x digital and and do ultra-wide instead. Yeah, I mean look there's there's very little usable in. Two. X. Zoom on like it doesn't. It doesn't actually look very good if you're if you don't have an optical lens that gives you that additional focal length. So Samsung. Samsung even learned this the hard way by advertising one hundred times. Space Zoom on the Galaxy s twenty ultra only to realize that most people posting those photos are posting like. Basically. Abstract art because. There's no detail to resolve at that at that focal length, but I also find it interesting that like Google is not so much admitting defeat as saying the the market is the market does not care enough about image quality. As opposed to the fact that you could take an ultra wide photo. Most people are comfortable zooming and digitally, and they don't really care that the photos aren't sharp they just want. To be able to do it and functionally, the Pixel five should be able to get to tax just won't look as good as it does on the Pixel Four. So at the end of the day, Google isn't so much removing a feature as it's just not telling you at the feature is as good as it used to be. and. That's I, mean, that's a lot of the same thing on the Pixel Five. Right there's no neural core but Google is saying that it's going to have better quality photos because they've spent the year optimizing all the algorithms that. You Know HDR plus is comprised of and the end result is going to be better quality photos. It should also be as quick if not quicker to process those photos right just because of better optimization I guess and. Quicker software. Yeah I mean look part of the promise. The seven sixty five was that it has the same image signal processing and digital signal processing as the eight, sixty five and that the main thing you're losing is CPU and GPO power but because most phones already have so much legroom when it comes to that, you're not really you're not going to Max out your phones performance no game really takes advantage of the adrenal. Nine million in the in the in the eight, sixty five plus so I guess the compromise there is Google has a better image signal processor for the Pixel five that it felt like it didn't need the dedicated neural core to process those hd are photos. I will say one thing that I wished the foray of the Pixel Five G. has that the pixel five got instead was. The waters assistance, 'cause I, guarantee you a lot of regular users don't really care that much about wireless charging, but water resistance is one of those things of it's like if I if somebody has kizer, somebody is like prone to doing yard were getting going out and working out and getting caught in the rain water resistance matters. especially like it's it's forgivable to not have that on say sale three, hundred, fifty dollar phone like the regular for a but. Wants you're starting to get up there in the price with the forty five g you gotta put it in there. Yeah. Once you once you get to five hundred and above you should have a water resistance. A guessing can we talked about the wireless charging SEC? Yes. That's actually what I was going to bring up because the body of this phone is really interesting. Google is releasing an aluminum phone and I think it's the first aluminum, all all metal phone that the companies had in the Pixel Lineup So or is it the first all metal phone that's ever had? I'm just thinking. Going all the way back to the next this line. They had all metal ones in the next line no. Yeah. The next the next six P. obviously was famously all metal metal I liked that thing even though nobody else did. I. Loved it. Yeah. That that that phone was was underrated for Sharia. So. Yeah. This is an all metal foam, but it does not look like a brushed aluminum phone the way that the next six P. did this is covered in a very It's like a matte paint that. Google told cold. told me as like a a stone that you pick up that has been weathered by time. So it kind of feels like it's rough but not not that rough, it's not like sandpaper. It's just like it a texture to it, but it's it's overall pretty smooth. What's really interesting is that Google managed to fit a wireless charging coil in an aluminum phone and famously aluminum is very difficult to work to make work properly with wireless charging and before the show when we heard about. The fact that the Pixel five would be metal. We were trying to figure out how Google achieve this, and it turns out that they kind of cheated a little bit so they instead of. Putting in the time and increasing the costs to make a wireless charging coil, actually conduct through. Metal, which which would impede the signal quite a bit enforce a much stronger antenna there. There's a physical whole cut out in the aluminum frame the back, and what Google does is it fills in that whole with a bio resin. So it's basically inorganic. Plastic made from organics of some sort and they cover both aluminum and the resin with the same paint so that it looks. You know I it basically looks. Finished identically, and there's no way that you can tell the difference unless you cut into that paint and I'm sure somebody's GonNa do that in less than a day after they got the phone. But right now, that is how Google is achieving this wireless charging and I don't know this is the most googly thing that they could have possibly done. It's so much like over engineering for. Like. I don't know not a useless thing, but just such an out of left field design guess I'm like I'm all for them bringing back aluminum phones because I much rather have that as opposed to glossy nasty glass backs Those are my favorite design things about the Pixel for was that really nice glass finished because it didn't look looker feel like a regular glass back. The Way of knowing tended that year I speak for yourself. I got the Super Glossy Black One. Oh Yeah. That was the stake. If I really liked that when deadly Yeah. If this is a trend that like other companies can if it's something they WanNa follow like I'm all for it is just kind of a hilarious thing for Google to like make this its mission for this phone. It's like we're going for budget. Affordable flagships. But by God, we're GonNa find a way to make wireless charging in a an aluminum phone for the first time. So Google did say that the reason the phone is metal and not plastic is that to achieve the same structural integrity on plastic phone, it needs to be a lot thicker. So obviously, this phone is about the same thickness as the Pixel for Excel, but it does not have it has a much bigger battery and as a result Google needed to put a metal frame in there to achieve that structural integrity. And retain the thickness or thinness I. Guess of the previous generation. If it had gone with plastic, it would have been thicker. So this way you have ninety seven percents I don't know what the exact percentage, ninety seven or so percent aluminum. A tiny cut out it doesn't actually. Affect the structural integrity of the phone, which is an achievement especially because this thing should be fairly hardy it's not glass rights you're not going to. Shatter the back when you drop it on the floor and as long as that resin holds up nicely, which it should because it's plastic, then there should be no quality control issues but. We'll. We'll see I I don't know. Let's talk a little bit about the. four five G. for a minute so. Five, ninety, nine or four nine but it's only coming out on November nineteenth whereas the pixel five is coming out on October twenty ninth it's available in some countries on October fifteenth I think Japan gets it earlier for some reason But in the US and Canada, it's October twenty ninth. On. The forty five G. though later in November very odd. We're not really sure why are what's your take on the forty five G. and? How it fits into this lineup this year, the Pixel five is pretty and I love that Green. But if I was going to recommend somebody on the street if they were like, Hey I i WanNa new phone and I need a big screen like if if my dad needed a new phone tomorrow because. He hit it with a golf club or something or whatever I would recommend to him to buy a pixel for five G. Not because he needs five. Gee I don't think there are a lot of people that can even really use five G. in two, thousand, twenty or twenty, twenty one. But because it's a quality phone with the big screen that's going to get updated for the next three years and that's important. We need more phones that are willing to get updated for reasonable amount of time without costing one thousand dollars. The Galaxy s twenty does. would. You still recommend the the forty, five G. over the regular for though. purely on size. That's why I preface it with if you need a big screen. Yeah. I mean, there are probably advantages to the seven, sixty, five over the seven thirty, it's it's just a newer generation. It's a more efficient ship. Fish and chip not efficient ship it. It is just like it's better it's a better performing phone all all told the battery should last a lot longer and you don't lose out anything. You don't lose anything from the Pixel for eight of the four five G. but it is one hundred and fifty dollars more and you have to really think about whether you're getting one hundred and fifty dollars worth of phone just by going to that larger displaying and getting five G.. For me like if I were recommending one of the to somebody like a unless I, guess if you're really insistent on having a bigger screen, but otherwise, you know most people especially the people that are buying a pixel for a of any kind probably don't really care about the processor inside because they just want something that's going to work, and it's going to be affordable I I still think the for a is is a better by most people in the five G. And? It really just depends on how you need a bigger screen in the bigger battery. You do also get that alter wide though with the forty five G. which I think that's that's a big big deal for some people and I'll take it. Yeah I mean I guess to to ours point like if you're going to somewhere like like a like a park or something, you want to take some nice landscaped shots yet the regular for is GonNa. Let you down there I don't think it's going to let you down I. Just think you're GONNA have to stand a little bit further back from the action yeah. So I do want to talk. A little bit about the camera improvement. Sorry the video camera improvements on the Pixel Five. And even the Pixel for five G. because I believe they both got the same update and they will I think the same features will come to. Older pixels with a feature drop. So Google is saying that not only will the pixel five, support, four, K sixty, which is a first for the pixel line but that a lot of care was taken to improve the experience of shooting video this year, and they are adding three specific video shooting modes including a cinematic pan mode, which basically gives you the ability to. Move around in a stable way to you when you shoot your b-roll for your youtube videos, you are doing a cinematic pan you are. Moving from left to right you are making sure that your tripod is stable and that you're not getting any bumps along the way and Google says that it has enough data both from the optical image stabilization. But also from that sensor crop plus all of the other algorithm improvements year-over-year that it can eliminate most of that shock when you're doing a slow pan from left to right or up to down. Yeah I mean I'm very excited to try that because I mean like you said, do all the time for my youtube videos yet I. I'm not a big fan of of of the video crop on sensors to begin with but if you're going to have it I think this is a really good way to make use of that. You know like it's it's basically just gonNA. From my understanding it's it's just GonNa, lock off an access while while you while you a pan around and you just get these super smooth shots as if you were on a tripod with with with A. Like a fluid head that you're painting with, which is what I have to use every time I need to get a Pan with my cameras so not needing. Tripod inexpensive fluid head I. think that's that's a big plus as long as it works. Well, what I didn't catch in their in their event today was, do we know if it's going to work on both the x and the Y axis like if you want to vertical instead of horizontal will that work as well? I have no idea I it you know the support documents are pretty new, but it's saying that there are three new modes. There's a locked mode for faraway still shots there is A. an active mode to capture heavy movement, and then there is a cinematic pan mode to capture smooth panning shots other than that. We don't really know a lot about it. The good news though is that even though right now these are exclusive to the Pixel five and four, eighty, five G. it does not seem like that will stay the fact for much longer. I would say that this will come to. Even going. So even going as far back as the Pixel three. Data I've. I've no official word on that but I would say that it's probably likely that could this could be retroactively applied given that most of it is just in software anything with oh I probably benefits from this. Yeah, I think it's nice just because the pixel has never really video has never been a strong suit of the Pixel, right? Like the cameras are always they. They blow away with the photo capabilities because they have all this ai processing, but they can't really apply that stuff to video quite as easily and they can't do it in real time. So anything to make video experience on the Pixel better I'm definitely a fan of. Yeah and one thing that Mark Lavoie said in an interview. With the verge a couple of weeks ago Mark Levin a as you mentioned, he left Google now at adobe building this like universal. Camera. APP FOR ANDROID and iphone. But what he had said after Neil Patel pose a question about why can't Google achieve the same things with video as it does today with photos is he's like we just don't have the processing power to do what we need to do in real time and. It would take so long for these effects to be applied in post that most people wouldn't be interested in them. So it's nice to see that. Google is taking steps to sort of recreate HDR plus in some. Small way on video and I don't mean by applying effects in real time which are already applied to some extent. HDR. Does apply in in video but this makes. Taking video on a pixel phone actually. I would say fun. It's it seems like this'll be a better, much better experience overall and the fact that Google is kind of leaning into the features of taking video and. FIGURING OUT WHY PEOPLE? You know what what kind of video people shoot on their phones that leads me to believe that the next generation and the one after that they're not just going to forget about video. Again for a couple of years, they're really going to take it seriously from now on the same way that they've been doing that with photos every year. I just wanted to say to be clear. This is still not going to be. I, I wouldn't say this will be one of the best video experiences on android still because it it still missing things like manual video controls that you get on something like the L. Sixty or the Sony experienced one mark to You know if you really WANNA do some super cinematic videos with your phone and and make some like mini documentary or something This is still not going to be the right phone for that necessarily but it's still nice to have these extra features that do make it a bit more competitive because before it was just not a not a great option for video in the past so. Really just making it better without going overboard I think was was the right move because otherwise you know that sort of super simple just point and click experience with Pixel would start to get a watered down with all these manual controls I was gonNA say wonder if this may be a sign that in the next year or two, we finally see Google upgrade that twelve point two megapixel primary sensor pad for. On a two or three years at this point just because like if they're gonNA make any Hata was saying if they're gonNA make substantial like. Leaps are substantial progress with video quality like I feel like you have to as some point address, the hardware of it like what you do a software as really impressive but I like. The conversation has to happen like down the road of like if we're gonNA take seriously like they're probably has to be some sort of sensor upgrade for these phones. I don't think necessarily. So because I mean twelve mega pixels is. Is actually perfectly fine for for four K video unless they WANNA start getting into eight K.. But you look at some professional cameras like Sony's new seven s three even that camera only has twelve I think twelve point four, megapixel sensor It's I. Think it's plenty of resolution we may maybe they could upgrade the actual. The actual lens or something, but I don't think they needed necessarily size up in resolution or anything. No, but the sensor has been it's the same sensor as the one on the Pixel two. Sure. So still putting out great images. Yeah. I I was Gonna ask that earlier do think that the additions this year to the photo taking. Feature the photo-taking experience is. Notable, year-over-year. So are we have we had site last year we had I, forget what we have with Pixel three but it it felt like you know this is a sorry nightside was pixel three. Last year was astro mode. We had you know every year we've had major additions to the cameras. Sweet this year we're getting the Ultra Wide Lens obviously and cinematic pan wish you talked about but the other photo taking experiences don't seem that impressive. We have nightside on portrait mode we have. Light areas doubts about how that's GonNa work out honestly I I never use nightside I'm in the parks just 'cause I can't keep my hands still for that long. So I'm really looking forward to seeing how sell fees are GonNa work considering most of the selfies on a pixel are not Elias if I if memory serves those are all fixed focal length. I love nightside even even in broad daylight because it is sort of rounds out the highlights and just I guess it flattens image of it even if it's not like superlight, it's it's just a nice different look that I I, definitely enjoy. I mean I use it if I could actually keep my hand steady enough for it but I care. So it's it's a moot point from you from you. I will say that even the. Photo samples that Google posted in its blog post for nightside in portrait mode. Are Not. Good. Like. That's reassuring. Good. So the the best photos that Google could come up with for its launch event do not look like photos that I would wanNA share on the Internet for nightside in portrait mode I don't really know what that says but. You know hopefully, they'll improve it with with updates maybe if you're propping your phone up on something, so you don't have to actually touch the phone takes the picture but yeah, I'm not optimistic. Maybe the most impressive update to the camera. Is actually not nothing to do with the camera at all and will affect a lot more people than just pixel owners. Google photos is getting a new photo editor. Finally, it's the first major overhaul for the photo editor since school photos was released five years ago. Google obviously took that photo editor largely unchanged from snap seed but. Removed all the expert features and I I don't actually like using the photo editor and Google photos. This one simplifies it. It gives you a lot more features it. We'd seen previews of this earlier but. It does look like this one will just be a more comprehensive and more enjoyable experience overall are what's your take on this update to the Google photos editor I'm. Anxious but also a little bit excited 'cause I'm somebody who I work fulltime on a chromebook. So I to a lot of my photo editing on Google photos, and for the most part, I, get what I need to out of it. So it's going to be interesting to see how how much easier it is to edit it on a phone. Now because I haven't been a big fan of editing with Google photos on a phone compared to using it on the website but. I'm hopeful that they keep it intuitive but still give us enough of the granularity that it's still easy enough to tweak it. Exactly. The way we want especially in regards to saturation and contrast. Yeah I just I want the manual controls to be better. I love the manual controls right now in Google photos and actually I've started using light room mobile on all of my android phones because it is so good and so much easier to use than it used to be. So if this keeps me from having to open a second APP to edit all my photos, I'll be pretty happy about that. Yeah. I will say I don't edit nearly photos actually on my phone I always just throw it to a chromebook 'cause they're always andy. Yeah exactly. I mean if you if you're using a chromebook why not? All right. So last thing about the phones before we move onto the other products, there's a new hold for me feature, which will come to the Pixel for a five G. Pixel Five. In the US I, it's basically a Google assistant feature duplex power that allows you to use your phone while you wait for a certain support person or. Any other is somebody that has you on hold essentially a bank or some other telecom. Support, person and. It'll just call you back when it's ready and I think that's kind of awesome and. Does address paint point that a lot of people feel when you know you're on the phone, you don't really want to use your phone because you might hang up on on that person hey, what's what's your take on hold for me and will actually affect how you make calls to. These, these companies that everybody dreads I think. So yeah, I mean I feel like everybody kind of hates being on the phone more than they have to And the whole thing with with hold for me it it doesn't necessarily call you back. What it does is basically there there's There's going to be a button in the phone APP that will just say, do you want to use hold for me you UTADA? Once there's hold music and just sits through all of that. It can. It can identify not just hold music, but also those sort of prerecorded messages when some boys will just say. Thanks for holding will be with you in a minute. It knows that that's still not a real person and so it doesn't give you this sort of false positive of like, hey, somebody's ready for you now. And basically once there is somebody back on the other end of the line, it it. It basically buzzes your phone sends you a an audible notification and While you're while it's waiting for you to sort of come back to the phone. It'll tell the person on the other end is, is sort of flips the table on them says, Hey, now you have to wait while they get back to the phone and I think that's So I, I think on one hand. That's a really good thing because obviously that's very convenient for the user right? Like you don't have to sit around and wait for five some five minutes sometimes an hour or even longer on hold but also. I think it could. It could lead to some problems that duplex has already sort of created where. As soon as the person on the other end picks up the phone and they hear this voice from Google assistant saying you know, please wait for the person to give back to the phone they're. Paying up right like I can already tell you I'm I'm very grateful for this us for this ability but all it needs to do is just buzz right I do need to Buzzer, play one audible Ding, and then turn on the mic so I can talk immediately. Yeah. Yeah. I think that would be a good solution I mean the I guess the other problem is if you're not ready if you're I, mean like if I'm waiting on hold I tend to be doing things like washing the dishes or something else maybe I'm playing guitar. I? Don't necessarily want the person on the other end to just hear that automatically without me like being ready. but it would probably. Cause fewer issues than this automated voice talking back to them. what I do like though is that if there is somebody talking on the other end and you want to like maybe maybe Google just doesn't catch it and you want to make sure that you're actually staying on top of the call when you're not listening they're basically doing their live transcription in real time for the phone call. You can just turn that on at any time without UN muting yourself and without I think without turning on the audio from their end, well, you can just see a transcription of if anybody's talking maybe the automated voice. you can just sort of read that in real time. So I think that's a really nice feature to add onto this. Yeah. I'm I'm kind of, but that is not rolling out outside the US yet. But yeah, this is I think save a lot of people a lot of hassle. So this is a yet another google feature that only the company could make and it just makes it makes sense especially when we're all at home now, we all just WanNa put our phones down when we're on hold and come back when only when we need to so. And the Nice thing is it's coming to not just the new pixels that were announced today, but it's going to be rolling out to other Pixel Devices in a in a sort of the the drop that Google does from time to time. Yeah exactly. Quarterly I think. So. All right one more quick thing about the pixel phone. So there's a new You can now screen share in HD with. Google do oh. I don't think it's role at the I don't think that's pixel only but let's check notes to everybody. That's cool. There's. No features and Google. So the Pixel. Pixel four debuted this insane recorder that lets you transcribe. Your conversations and it's very accurate is all locally. Now you can actually edit the text in that transcription and it will delete the associated audio. Way Form, which is bananas and only something Google seems to be able to do well. was what was that company that that also does this it starts oh Not Always. Stir. But they just got snapped up by. The quired. So there is a bit of competition in this space, but Google really does this better than any other company and obviously it's free which the other one is not Otter Otter is the company that I was thinking of. Anyway but this looks incredible. I cannot wait to use this for interviews, and then finally, if you buy a pixel for five G. or Pixel Five, you get three on stadia three months of youtube premium one, hundred gigs of Google one storage and Google play pass and. silver status or gold status on plate points for three months so. You know quite a few nice offers there if you do by the phone. And then as I said earlier, the four five G. Lodges in Japan on October Fifteenth and. Eight other countries including the US and Canada in November, and then the pixel five comes to eat countries on October fifteenth. But. The US and Canada on October twenty ninth no idea why that's happening but Australia France. Germany. Ireland's. Japan Taiwan, the U. K. get them all before we do so barnes. And there's also a little bit of confusion to about the the forty five. G. As a sub six model and also a millimeter wave model. I guess there's some discrepancies with pricing there. So once a all these US carriers announced their availability and price information for that it'll be interesting to see like. A of a difference there is in how Google Kinda Works. They're messing around that. Yeah I. Mean the unlocked Pixel five supports millimeter wave in the US but. T mobile net really don't use millimeter wave right now. So it feels like it's just an added cost. That may benefit some people down the road, but really doesn't feel like it does also somebody in my briefing asked about when Google five will add millimeter wave support because it it currently uses t mobile and. The person said soon, but we won't comment right now on went. So stay tuned for that. All right. We'll take a quick break and we will come back to talk about the nest. audio. Be Right, back. ooh. This episode of the Android Central Podcast is brought to you by indeed. One of the greatest challenges we all face is taking all the information that's available and knowing where to focus. It's that same problem we run into with hiring two but with indeed, you have access to the largest pool of talent can hire the right people fast. INDEED DOT COM is the number one job site in the world because indeed gets you the best people fast unlike other sites indeed gives you full control and payment flexibility over your hiring you pay only for what you need. You can pause your account at any time and there are no long term contracts plus indeed provides powerful tools to make your search that much easier like sponsored jobs which are known to be three and a half times more likely to result in higher with seventy three percent of online job seekers visiting indeed, each month indeed is going to get you the important hire you need just like they have for over three million businesses. Right now indeed is offering our listeners a free seventy, five dollars credit to boost your job post, which means more quality candidates will see it fast try indeed out with a free seventy, five dollars credit at indeed dot com slash ACP. This is their best offer anywhere. Go right now to indeed dot com slash ACP terms and conditions apply. ooh. Ara I I. Guess this is more exciting for you than for me but I am curious to know why you are excited about a ninety nine dollar nest audio. It is the successor spiritual successor to the Google home, which was released incredibly four years ago in two thousand sixteen and I remember it vividly 'cause I bought it after doing a morning of overtime on election graphics. Exactly. All right. So give us the lowdown what do you get for your hundred bucks and why exciting to you? it's exciting to me because Google smart speakers haven't really been that. Interesting or really changed that much in the last three years like since we got the. Original. Google, home many we haven't really end the Google Home Max those two came out together since the two of those we haven't really had much of anything new from any Google assistant speakers apart from a couple of third party speakers which are cool but don't get updated as quickly as Google ones. So the nest audio is a nice good medium size where you're going to get really good sound of where you're going to get a good quality of sound out of it and you're. Going to get a good volume out of it, the original Google home could fill your room. Okay a google. Home mini can't really fill a room the way you want it to. So I'm I'm grateful to see that but also getting a good variety of colors this time. Thank you lord the original Google home only came in one color and the echoed the maximum comes in two colors. The many we get four now assuming you can actually find any of them in stock. So I'm grateful that we get five colors this time and that we get a more. Premium looking package without a more premium looking price considering this is actually thirty dollars cheaper than the Google home was when it launched. Yom's pretty surprised to see only one hundred bucks for the price. That's that's really really competitive. Honestly. I mean, it's the same price as the. Amazon Echo. makes sense but I'm also very use very also very grateful to see it. Although I think that the speaker on this one is going to be bigger and beefier than the one on the new. Amazon Echo. That that's definitely the thing I'm most interested in seeing is because for like I've got a ton of speakers and displays of Google assistant on them throughout my apartment like I found I, I definitely get the most. Use Out of the smart displays for obvious reasons just because you can see like answering questions, you can follow recipes, Mont, youtube videos on all that but I've been looking for like just some good. Speakers from my desk to listen to music through. That's not the built in speaker on the I Mac. So like assuming this sounds. Good like I'm not expecting Sonos one quality obviously just because there's a big price gap like if it sounds pretty good and I can pair two of them for. Ninety nine bucks each in also benefit from having assistant packed in there too like it is a potentially really exciting I am really loving a that minty green color. So I love with the blue the blue in the paint. I just love all of them. I want to take them all home. Audio's there. I'm definitely a probably pick up a couple of these but all depends on if Google could actually fit in like good speakers for ninety nine dollars, which probably gets in the easy thing to do. Well. Judging by the improvements between the original Google home mini and the nest mini which you know it's the same looking speaker but the split, the audio quality is considerably improved I'm sure this does sound better than the original Google home. It's not hard to sound better than the nest hub, which is basically not a speaker you WANNA listen to music on. It does it does kind of fit a nice medium or a nice. Happy spot between the nest hub or the nest many. and the Google Home Max, I hate these names so much yellow. I use Google Home Max every day in our living room. It still sounds incredible. This apparently has. Seventy five percent louder Max volume and the basis fifty percents more substantial i. don't know what that means by Google standards, but you know the the original Google home sounded good and the base response was pretty meager. So I'm excited to hear it and honestly given the fact that like the only real competitors that I can think of, as you said, were the fourth Gen Echo, which also got a nice redesign this year and the symphonic Sonos Speaker, which is ninety nine bucks I have two of them in my office and they sound sound pretty good. So, once I, get my hands on this nest audio. In a in a pair of them, I'm going to do a bunch of testing to see which one sound better. I'm also one feature from the Google Home Max. I'm grateful is making its way to the nest audio is the ability to adapt to whatever room it's in two adopted sound profile. They didn't mention it during the presentation, but it's in the Google store listing. So I'm very happy for that. So. You know who did mention the fact that Google offers Automatic. Room adjustments is Sonos when they sued Google earlier this week for patent infringement because one of those patents was for true play which Google apparently according to this lawsuit has. Basically copied and reproduced in its Google home speakers so what that means is that you know Google may be on the hook for a lot of money if a court decides that it did commit patent infringement. But at this point. You know nothing nothing's come of that because the lawsuit was just filed. So really really interesting times. This is the second lawsuit that Sonos has filed against Google for these kinds of features. Fund no one of the patents in that lawsuit that sonos filed in Waco Texas this week is a patent that was issued two weeks ago. So it's GonNa, be interesting to see. How? That shakes out. It'll areas that Texas is becoming a patent infringement hotbed again. Maybe because it just has a bunch of A bunch of judges that are willing to take these cases up. And a an environment where where these kinds of lawsuits are welcome in the courts. It's unclear whether this will have any effect on Google's product roadmap down the road but. Yeah I don't know it's it's just something that we need to always keep in the back of our minds as good as Google is at this smart homes speaker stuff it's largely I mean I can't say for sure because we don't know whether they infringed on these patents, but it is. It does seem like many of these ideas were taken from Sonos with been doing this for over a decade now. So yeah, for one of those patents is changing the oil. Changing the volume for your speaker from your phone I. Mean, that's that's a pretty basic thing to patent. Well, it isn't. It isn't right because you know if there's Like. It's kind of hard to know if say, I open up spotify or something and I'm and I have spotify connect streaming to my Sonos does it when I press the volume button on my phone doesn't increase my phone but volume or does it increase my Sonos speaker volume? The these speakers have to know what is what is an active and what is you a background service and has to think about which one it should adjust on the fly and obviously sonus thought about this because it it changed that behavior on a couple of years ago much to the Chagrin of a lot of sonos users and They clearly patented that. It was it was a consideration that they made very early on. So not saying that you know that Google infringed her of that. Whatever it's just that this is these small things that get patented are done for a reason and it's because later on if another company copies them whole cell. They can go and sue them in Texas and hopefully get a lot of money out of them. That's the jury. Dream, let's all just let's all just go sue companies in Texas and help. Make a windfall that way that seems like an easier job than journalism. All right. So what else about this nest speaker at comes out in early October and mid October and the I don't know it doesn't seem like there's much interesting much else interesting about it unless I missed anything now I mean it's it's pretty it isn't an over the top update. So I'm happy that there's nothing that they're trying to like. They're not trying to go for any like showboating with it. They're trying to just do things that they know that they can do. No they can do well although. I really really wish they could have put at least a small. Battery. In this things that way I could transfer from room to room instead of having to have one in every room and rely on assistant shoving the audio from one to the other as I walk that was rumored. I really wish they would've announced a nest thermostat update. Yeah. That Joe. We did see a a patent for at least an FCC filing for a new nest thermostat. So it's definitely coming. It might not be ready right now. So In the next few maybe. Next year. Virtual Virtual I. O. All right. So let's take another quick break and we will come back and talk about this new chrome cast because that is a thing that is happening. Google is getting back into the ANDROID TV hardware game and I comes with a remote. That Google says it wants you to think of as a bowl of candy I don't really know. We'll. We'll come back and talk about it. Move. This episode of the Android Central Podcast is brought to you by Roman. Talking about erectile dysfunction is an easy, usually just brush it off for blame ourselves. Saying things like I lost my Mojo or we avoided altogether with excuses like I had a long day at work or sorry honey, I'm just not feeling it. But with Roman, it is easy to talk about it with a healthcare professional who can prescribe real medication. 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Is a crime cast with Google, TV, and how does it differ from the other two chrome cast that Google has released or three few count the the recent chrome cast visual update over the years. So it's similar the sense where it looks like dangle you plug in your hdl report on your TV and you can still send content who from the little chrome cast icon on on of but now you actually get a legit user interface on the TV with a remote that you can browse through in find content that way. So basically like A. Kind of a refresh of the next player whenever that was a thing. The interesting thing is that it is the official name is cast with Google TV, which is a separate interface on top of the android TV we currently have in the big push there is that it? Tries emphasis put a bigger emphasis on like recommending content. That Google thinks you're interested in. So there's a whole for you. Homepage US give you picks from all of your streaming APPs based on what a Google thinks. You WanNa Watch. You kind of have some of that with the little channels that currently exist on Android TV, but it's really up putting that at the forefront of it. It's a visual refresh is so functionally, you click on your APPs to watch you watch they're still Netflix's Disney. Disney, plus prime video all of that stuff. Right now, they're keeping the interface to just the chrome cast with Google TV, but starting next year they're going to. Look at other hardware devices to expanded to. So it sounds like some string boxes and televisions with android TV built in we'll get the new interface others might not in that could get really confusing discuss it's it is Android TV, but it's not injury. TV android TV is still sticking around in it's all a a big mess that only Google could do with its branding and don't forget. That's also what they're renaming their TV and movies APP for android denial us. So it's Google TV on the website and Google TV on the APPS. So no not confusing it all our walk us through what Google TV is because Google TV already existed as a product before Android TV existed and now it's back but it is not the same thing at all. But it resembles Google TV in the sense that is sort of focused on live TV and streaming. So, yes. Hel Help US figure out what what it is. Okay Google TV now is just a software interface that's designed to help you find content and view the content that you want without getting lost in different APP menus and browsing for half an hour to an hour. The way that I do sometimes before I make dinner so it's designed to help. What's the phrase? It's helped him gather the content that it thinks that you WanNa Watch and presented in a easy to browse easy to its hoping to help simplify the decision. Of what you want to watch because when you sit down in front of the TV like, okay what do I wanNA. Watch today. Right, now you have to pick your APP I and it's like, okay. What do I want to watch on Netflix or do I WANNA go look at Hulu for awhile or Hey Disney pluses here should I look at anything over there? So. It's basically like it's apple. TV's TV APP. It's like it's like Roku sort of you know section it's like it's channels the the the front of its channels, APP it's curate. Content based on your previous watching history that it thinks you would recommend that thinks it would enjoy. A consolidated from a whole bunch of different services that have bought into this idea of a of a hub, right? Yeah. Because you still have to make the content. Visible to Google TV as opposed to just having the APP on Android TV. So who went be very interesting to see whether or not. Google TV gets enough services to actually buy into this as opposed to how things are on Android TV right now, where most injured TV apps all you have is an APP icon on the front on the front page or in the APP drawer 'cause they don't populate a channel further down on your home screen and it's clear Netflix's not going to buy into this because it has no interest in doing. So on Apple TV, where far more eyeballs are. So why would know about that because Netflix was mentioned by name in the Google TV? Announcer in, they do have a channel on Android TV that like Kinda, does recommended show. So I'd I'd imagine like any service that has the channel support on android TV is GONNA support this and I'm sure Google is GonNa make a much bigger push to bring any lingering services to this just because the whole channel idea for injury to never really took off I think the way Google was hoping for. Yes. Yeah I mean look there's there's clear. There's Clearly interest in this sort of curation especially since there are so many services right now, Google calls out Disney plus HBO Max. netflix's peacock braxton youtube a lot of others as well. you also get six months of free net flix standard with a purchase of this, which is basically worth more than. Your chrome cast itself which I don't think you do at least on the Google store on the Google store they have to separate listings. They have a Google TV with a cast with. With Google TV and then they have a chrome cast will google TV plus net Netflix. and. The one with Netflix is thirty dollars more. than the six months of it, which is a deal, but you're still. A bit more upfront. The whole thing with this like I'm it's kind of a small feature but I'm personally looking forward to that Google mentioned if you dislike on Google search and you search for a TV show remove. A, if you tap the button on the Google search results adds to your watchlist it puts it on the watch list that's like integrated with your. Chrome cast with Google TV. 'cause like right now. I use a third party APP called just watch where if I WANNA like look for a movie that I'm not sure what streaming service it's GonNa be on is like you look it up on Google and then you compare it to that APP and added your watchlist and everything. So if there's like a more streamlined way to kind. Of Find shows you WanNa Watch and then see what services might be on like I'm all for making that process a little less headache inducing because it can be a mess if you're subscribe to five or six different streaming services in don't know what show is on which one with licenses changing all the time. Yeah. That is that is really interesting It does it does look like Netflix is part of this for you section. So I'm I'm wrong about that. But I, there is also a dedicated netflix button on the remote. So I'm sure that is part of the equation that Netflix gets a ton more visibility than any of the other services I'm really hoping that's a map -able atten 'cause I don't actually use Netflix that much. I'll go been something every couple of weeks, but it's not the kind of thing that I tune in every week for any of their shows I mean I think remarkable branded buttons are kind of funny though because then you just hit the net button takes like Hulu or Disney plus or something. So long as it works man somebody is going to hack this firmware and re map the button in like two days. Oh, I'm hoping it's in the settings because that's how it is on the Navidi, a shield, the shield you can re-met others a button that you can re map to whatever APP you on. The aftermath of Netflix's like paying for that placement though there's not out of the box way to just. Over go that, there could be and see you there is no there is no easy way to rematch this button but you know maybe maybe Google will prove me wrong I do like the remote though I think you know looking at this remote compared to the Apple TV remote. It's not even close like this one fee just looks like a much better experience overall and eighty five blue in the pink ones finally get a remote with the chrome cast, which is something that people have been asking for even even without a UI as comprehensive as this people have just been wanting a way to interact with chrome cast for years having to pull up their phone every single time. The the one thing that I'm a little hesitant about is that There are a few different like sections or pages that Google TV interface has in one of those, the dedicated live section which obviously integrates with Youtube TV a if you're like myself and you're not subscribe, Youtube TV I'm hoping that doesn't become too annoying and they don't really try to shove that down your throat. And it would be nice if they could expand us to sling TV and other a strict live services. But once again, I have a feeling going GonNa kind of shut that off and just use it as a a ground to really push you to TV on people They mentioned that they're going to start bringing other live subscription services. Quote Unquote coming soon though it's not just going to be Youtube TV. But at the same time, I'm very much hoping that if you're not subscribed to ally TV service already that APP that tab just won't appear. Or if it or if it does, here's one of those things that if you're not subscribed, you can turn it off 'cause please dear God. Don't make me scroll past four different tabs in order to get over to APPS. Although I'm very happy that movies and shows is going to are going to their own for everything that you've purchased from Google. There is a reason. This is fifty dollars and it is being subsidized by the services that Google is bundling here right so yes, I. Don't I mean I'm cynical about this, but the live tab will probably try to upsell you like crazy to anything that. Google support. So obviously Youtube TV make sense but if Google can get other. Brands. On board you know if they can try to upsell you on an anything, then they will do that because they have to subsidize this hardware. Somehow this is a more powerful more feature you know feature filled version of the chrome cast ultra it supports for K. HDR IT supports. Dolby Vision, dolby audio. It is just a better overall experience and it's cheaper than that crown cast ultras as well. So you'd imagine there's a reason a lot of these bundles are happening. I'd pay an extra thirty bucks to not have the live Tab Samak me in the face every time I try to go watch. My shows. Yeah. I mean let's see. Maybe it's not as in your faces as we think it'll be but I don't I don't hold out a ton of hope there. So. What else can we talk about the? It's it's available right now. So that's something you can go and buy today if you want it is. Near you. Oh. One thing is interesting. You can't play stadium on it until next year. The most Google thing I've ever heard of like I I understand because like have. Very, distinct teams working on different services and products, but it seems like such an oversight of if this is like their big future for gaming and like they're really trying to be serious about stadium and get that in front of a lot of people's eyeballs like it's. It's almost bewildering that it can run on across ultra but you're making people wait months before they can use it on this new hardware that is probably going to get purchased by a lot of people during. Black Friday and the holiday shopping season is coming up like it's such A. Bizarre oversight. Google's done. Weird things. This is a chrome cast, a crown cast, and you cannot cast stadia to it like what the heck guys. Like this, this is basic stuff. I think. There's a couple of things here. Right. You can side load stadia onto this dongling and therefore it it works today we've we've seen a tested already the verge Verges Chris Welsh, bought this a couple of days ago because Home Depot sold in one he tested CD as a side load it works fine. It's clearly just an integration optimization. Question. Like the as Joe mentioned, the stadia team probably hasn't Qa the the experience and therefore wants to wait until it's it's in better shape. Or has has tighter integration. into. Google TV but. Underneath, it's still a an android TV box. It's the same android TV that's running on the Invidia Shield and the. And the T. VO streaming stick and the Xiaomi Mi box s in the whatever whatever, and all the Andrew TV's that are sold with. Will all the TV's that are sold to enter a TV TODAY JOE? You actually have a high sense Indra TV in your home. Would you? I mean you're going to because you've already bought it but like. This is obviously A. Dongo. That you put in an hd Mike for and power behind your TV. I'm interested to hear what you think about whether. This is interesting to you. Right. If you're just a fan tech fan does this Google TV overlay interest you when you already have Andrew TV experience? Yeah like I I don't hate the way that Android TV work since current form but I'm just kind of always a happy to try out new user interface and if familiar with it and see how it works in like the content curation, the Google TV does over android is. Probably reason enough for me to at least try in. It seems like it's GonNa make finding something to watch a bit more convenient. And a also as someone with some of the remotes you get with those. Like high sense or any other TV manufacturers they look like they come at a nineteen ninety. So I'm more than happy to go to something that's a bit simpler with that a remote that Google includes in this a little more pleasing to hold in if it's GonNa, make me think of a was a jar of candy or something then. I'm all for that. But yeah for for like most people I mean. If you haven't Andrew like a built in. android TV television in assuming that Google TV is like pushed out most of those devices and like this obviously isn't something that most people need to buy. But if you're still rocking like a a dump TV or something with fire TV, your Roku built in and you WanNa, give it a shot. Then it's fifty bucks will probably see some kind of small discount loan speed into the shopping season and i. hope it's a big hit for them because I would love to see kind of a renaissance of android TV because it gets a lot of hate in a lot of trash, but it's gotten quite good in the past year. So. Yeah I mean on the other hand chrome cast is easily Google's biggest hardware hit. So calling the chrome cast as opposed to an ANDROID TV like entrance is nowhere in this name and that's an accident. So. Yeah not the end the name, but it is in the product wards powered by android. TV that doesn't mean this is interesting. Right because Google is. It's doing what it's doing to itself, what Samsung, algae and other android manufacturers to android itself. Right Samsung doesn't release phones with Android ten it releases it with one you. I, two point five android is powering the experience. It's not prominent anywhere in the branding and Google is essentially doing the same thing here it's overlaying its own software with Google branded experience, and if you look at it from that perspective, it makes sense because. Andrew TV has never been particularly pretty and even invidia. In video releases a shield that obviously uses android TV but it's done its own optimizations and it has its own reasons for for existing and invidia is the one oem that is pushing google to make changes to android TV when when. I, make sense to. Right. Like the android name in general like it was a not an exact same situation but we had the rebrand from android wear to wear a wes where again like Google. Is kind of like. Pushing away from the android brand a little bit I mean, I. I'm not sure how much wear less has over android wear but like we've had a couple of instances now where Google has shown that it's fine to rebrand something that previously had android in the name and give it something else that just kinda drops it entirely. I mean you could say does beg the question that android as a whole gets rebranded some point if you WanNa think that far down the road, but it's definitely something they're thinking about in their actively doing with some of these reruns I think the next year or two down the road it'll be. Fascinating to see of android auto gets a similar rebrand or like what else they do with that name? Well, it'd be there's already Andrew Automotive. So I don't think the auto name is going away but Google Google is a company where it feels like there are a lot of competing factions some advocate for Android as a brand, some an advocate for android just as an underlying engineering layer where things can live on top of it and I think where it serves them, it makes sense to keep it and where it doesn't and serve to get rid of it. Well, I'm sure that all the antitrust stuff around android over the last several years has something to do with. This is well. Yes that's fair not to mention the fact that. Right. Now, if you buy an android phone in, Europe, it's not the same experiences if you buy it here in the US so. that. That is a very, very good point are all right anything else about the android the Google? Chrome cast with Google TV. Don't like. Get One now because I've I've looked at it. So The blue one is sold out everywhere that I have tried to buy including Google. A lot of the stores it looks like you can get a kick up on October eighth or tenth or so. So like you have to wait a couple of days, but it's not like waiting for a a series extra or something like should be pretty easy to give it the next few days or so. All right. Well, we're going to take another quick break. We'll come and finish the show what's with what's making us. Happy. This episode of the Android Central Podcast is brought to you by Sandisk, we've all experienced the problem of running out of storage space on our phones, and that's why we've been talking about Sandisk of the last few weeks the global leader in data storage solutions that has you covered no matter what smartphone you have a few months ago I made the mistake of buying a phone with the minimum amount of storage sixty, four gigabytes that you should buy with the phone today and I ran out of storage pretty darn quickly. But that's why I use sand discs ultra dual drive lux UB type-c flash drive with capacities from thirty two gigs all the way up to one terabyte for my storage. The dual Dr lex has one hundred fifty megabytes per second read speeds that let you transfer photos and videos faster plus sandisk makes other great products for both android and apple devices like the extreme Mike arrest you it's just one card and the I expand flash drive go. Take our advice free up space on your phone with Sandisk right now, get ten percent off your first order of these sanders products. But only when you go to sandisk dot com slash ACP, that's S. A. N. D. I S. K. dot com slash ACP don't wait go send us dot com slash ACP and thanks Sandisk for sponsoring the android central podcast. ooh. Okay so are you are being subjected to what's making us happy I because I don't think you've done it yet and I love to hear what is making you happy because it's it's usually pretty fun. Well, if I thought about this, I would have grabbed a proper I came in here, but it's up to us. It's October tomorrow and that means that it's bumpkins season and pumpkin seeds are making me happy you are. You're very good at making pumpkin seeds. You make the nicest looking pumpkin seeds I think I've ever seen well, they take like four to six hours they ought to be good. That's a very long time well. I got the Pumpkin and the night Brian, the seeds for like two hours. Then I, dry the seeds for like three hours and then they bake for like an hour. So it takes time. That is that's nestle lot of work. It sounds like it's worth it though they're like the perfect fall snap you get fiber from the halls of the seeds you get fat and protein from via actual seeds themselves and the butter adds a little bit of saltiness in it's just so crunchy and delicious love them. If your recipe isn't secret off the steal from you because Kennedy night shredded make pumpkin seeds last year and they were very not good I don't know what? I I've shared my recipe before I should have shared it in the editor's desk this week. Honestly. I think you did one time for some reason I think. I. Remember. Of years ago I've been continually improving. To give that a shot sometime. Soon, I'd like to make some pumpkin seeds that aren't repulsive. Same. All right maybe there's a side hustle in your future, Oh yes. Because I have so much free time in the fall or a Joe what's making you happy mine's pretty boring. It's that I have a new router now for the past lake ever since we moved into this new apartment I've had constant issues with like our Google meet meetings like I'd always cut in a now. Have to join for my phone in my lt connection. I could not stay connected to Wi fi in the bedroom, which is just like down the hall. So being able to have a WI FI router that works in a constant source of stress throughout the day has been A. A great addition to the apartment in is made I. If I was wearing the fitbit sense, my stress meter my scored probably far better than it was a week ago. So I'm very appreciative for that. Routers aren't very fun on their own doing they don't work. They are a maddening. You Got Wifi six on that boy it is. Why I ended in here Your video streams are still a little choppy. So I don't know maybe there say that sanctions there. Are you bring the route or closer to your to your computer but. At least it's not dropping anymore. So that's something take the progress can get. Yeah, exactly. All right. Hi Out. What's what's making happy In the little time, I've had to play lately of been really really enjoying the the Super Mario Three D. what is it called? Three all stars three D. Ulcers. It's been so much fun I. Basically just wanted to play Boban battlefield once from Mario. Sixty four, and then ever since then I've just been playing through sunshine with all the free time, I can try and squeeze out. So it's it's It's been a lot of fun just reliving like some of my favorite games for my childhood like. Super Mario Sixty, four and sunshine in particular were two of my favorite games growing up. So it's it's just been. Good and bad I guess like in some ways I'm finding that the controls in sixty four were They're they're pretty frustrating to us by today's standards but they you know they were they were huge for for their time. So I'm trying to appreciate that at least while I play. That is that's-that's a title that I'm to need to buy I. Guess before it disappears right because for some reason they're. Taking it off the store and March, but you got until March thirty first. I. Think I think I'll handle it. Do, you think they're gonNA put it on sale before it goes away because I feel like it. It has to like they can't just like, why would why would they remove it? It doesn't make any sense there resurrecting the Disney vault strategy and as a lifelong Disney fanatic that is not something you want to repeat 'cause I'm sorry. The whole reason that the Disney vault strategy worked was 'cause you couldn't just download you couldn't just by. Caserta turnover. We didn't have digital stores. Then we have digital stores. Now it makes no sense to take anything away. Yeah especially because now. People. have been buying the physical copies of the Games. Just, just basically scoop in as many copies as they can just that once the the game basically discontinued in March, they can start selling it later at an upcharging it's like that that's just socks you have a digital you can't do that with digital nor should you? Be Able to say they're doing that with the physical copies. No I know. But I mean like why find get rid of the physical copies like you know make your? Artificial scarcity. Make, make that a collector's edition or collector's item and and boost the price artificially. But like digitally, why would you remove access to a game? From your digital store. After a set amount of time, it really doesn't make sense. Unless there is a another. Product down the road that they would bundle it into to replace it. Maybe a subscription service that you currently have access to I don't know it seems like they have to evolve Nintendo Nintendo's online service whatever it's called. To eventually include switch games as opposed to just SNES and as any game so. Maybe down the road, we'll hear about that I don't know I'm just speculating I, think one of the things I've seen people sort of speculate. As a result of the whole. Game going away in March is that they they might be working on like a like a Gamecube emulator or just some kind of like. Yeah. Just like a bigger scope of backwards compatibility. So if that happens and it doesn't include these games and that's great. Even though that that'll kind of me I spent sixty bucks for nothing I guess but You know I I would love to see that because most of my favorite games growing up were honestly on the game q other than like I duNNo. Halo. Is that Mario things sixty dollars like to buy it? Yeah but I, mean, you get three games you get sixty, four sunshine and and Galaxy Yeah I'm GonNa age myself again like I did before we hopped on this I have never played any of those Mario. Games. So I was debating like picking it up but I don't know if I wanNA spend sixty dollars or something I'm not going to get like a nostalgia effect from. Like. Get frustrated with the the older control schemes and everything Super Mario. Sixty four still ranks just constantly in the in the top ten games of all time. It's it's an historic just piece. It's it's a it's an art form I look I agree in to some extent but I feel like after playing odyssey going back and dealing with the ridiculous camera problems from six or would just make me WanNa scream because the camera I I from the reviews I've read have not been the camera issues have not been fixed yet the cameras horrible. That is not something I want to deal with again because I was you know I remember being very angry when I was. Playing that game because the camera would just got lost and you'd like be trying to perform this perfect jump and then the camera would would get stuck on a mountain and you'd be like whereas whereas Mario why can't I move right now and it was just so infuriating while the good news is we're all very angry as adults now. So would you have? The right. Exactly. Let me blow some steam off by screaming at this Terrible Camera Super Mario Game. no I think I'll just stick with Odyssey actually because I don't have the same established as I as I as I guess, some people do with sixty four. Bring me Goldeneye bring like give me a perfect darker golden ivory master on switch. I would be all for that. I, spent a lot of time playing those games but didn't they remastered Goldeneye for Lake ps four or xbox or something I swear there was a master of that that came out less than ten years ago I. The sounds familiar. I. Sort of Goldeneye or is that was that? was was that further was that a calculator game? What was that? Oh Dude. Although if we really want if I really want to date myself here I never had a Nintendo sixty four game cube. I had playstation playstation to playstation three NOAA? All of those I only skipped out on the xbox until a three sixty or maybe the one and I? Oh, no gaming consoles. Now I don't even have the switch which I feel like missing out a little bit and then I go in parking I. Forget about all of that. So I made the unfortunate mistake I guess of pre ordering. All of the consoles. Currently, have a PS five and an xbox series x and a series s `priority because I just got them because I I. I'M GONNA I'M GONNA I'm GonNa get them and then either sell them on open or one of them or I'm going to cancel them but I just it's really hard to get preorder day that they came out and I'm like I might as well. Just keep the preorder because I know people in my life. That will want these I'm going to figure out which I wanNA keep right now. I have a the xbox one original and the PS four pro. So I'm thinking I'll sell the PS five keep this series x with game pass and then Also sell the won the series s to somebody else. So I'm only going to end up with one because nobody needs. Both the new consoles on launch day but or I got the I got the preorder is I might as well keep them right. Tell you what a work a couple of weekends for the PS five. Steel hit me get a video to hit two hundred thousand views. And we'll talk. Oh Man, this is this is your next challenge. Okay. I can do that. All right. Let's let's. Let's take it off line. All right my my What's make me happy. This week is, is ironically a game that I'm playing on my Mac just because I can it's called Haiti's it's a game that got released last week for switch and on steam, and it's compatible with PC MAC, which is why I'm playing it on my Mac I decided to buy it on. Steam just because I I wanted to see how well it would play on my Mac pro. There are so few games that are compatible on day one that I was like why not it's a rogue like very similar dead cells, but it's it's sort of top down Diablo style. It's made by supergiant. So bastion entrance transistor, two of my favorite games ever they're just incredible titles you play Haiti's son who wants to get out of the underworld's and he is snarky and hilarious and the. Graphics are incredible everything about this game is fun. Even the dying is fun I think it's one of my favorite games I've played in the last couple of years and as somebody who's like really looking forward to Diablo four even though this is nothing, this is not the same kind of game the. I get nostalgic for Diablo when I play this because it's the same top down point of view and it's it's a fighting action game. Highly recommended. It's not expensive. I. Think Twenty Eight Bucks Canadian. For. So many highly recommend Haiti's Yeah I've heard so many good things about that and I just got into dead cells like two weeks ago and I. I don't play a lot of rogue lakes and I got kind of irritative nine realized the. Per Month kind of thing. But then I got like in sailing addicted to that with like the combat and how fast moves and everything. So then I heard people comparing dead cells to Haiti's. By some point like I still have so much dead cells to get through. But I would love like another game that has similar ideas but. Like does that kind of top down view and everything? I mean, if you like rogue likes I've just been constantly playing spunky one an to lately, and that's that's always like spunky was my favorite game probably of all time. Yeah, I've heard like a lot of people rave about that and now that I've like understanding the genre realize I kinda love it. Like I, I feel like I've got a lot of that to to work my way through now. I'M GONNA say I've sunk in over over two hundred hours over the years into lease. Oh. Don't recommend it but it's a good game that sounds like Diablo two for me. I sunk so many hours into that game that I will never get back but. I I don't regret it. You know no regrets. Yeah. I also recommend getting dead cells on Android and then. Spending fourteen hundred dollars on a surface duo and then getting a cash. Br Bluetooth Controller and then bending the surface duo into laptop mode and then playing it that way. It's a it's a great use of your money and just. Pass for firms of. Is it on game pass it is. That's why that's why I found it and started playing it. Okay I I don't have game pass yet but. You have a much better solution though it's much more. Totally way more affordable. And you get A. Surface due out of it which makes makes for is that a is that a Perot talking about the talking about getting angry like this thing is still it still makes me so angry because it's got so much potential. Anyway we've we've run really long this this did make me happy though talking about all these games I love them. All right. That's it. Thank you everybody for joining us. Ara Joe Hay auto. Thank you. We are hopefully going to. Publish this on Thursday. So you're going to hear this day after the events. Let. US know what you thought of Google's event. It was thirty minutes from start to finish, which is the shortest virtual event that we've seen so far was a too short. I. Actually think it was they didn't spend enough time in the products themselves. Let us know podcasts at android central. You can find Joe at Joe Marring. One on twitter you can find Ara at our WACKO can find Heo Abhaya Houston. You can find me at journey Dan you can find all of us. At android central we will be back next week with another episode. Talk. Later. See. Ya

Google US Samsung I. Phone Houston youtube Mark Levin Daniel Baiter wagner Japan Joe Marring twitter BIA Motorola England
Tinders new Swipe Night TV show, J. Crews Madewell IPO, and e-cigarettes are getting cancelled

Snacks Daily

16:11 min | 1 year ago

Tinders new Swipe Night TV show, J. Crews Madewell IPO, and e-cigarettes are getting cancelled

"This and this is snacks daily. Welcome back it is Monday September twenty third. We feel Jack. Do you know how to describe this pod in German Erman. Can you talk about it. Give me an answer here. Daas Besta this half India Gunson bent on no joke. This is the best next day we've ever done. Jack and I could not stop talking working on this all weekend. What have we got all right? We are kicking it off with Chino's baby. We're talking J. Crew. Actually it's Denham obsessed brand called made well. It's outgrown J. Cruise Nest and is doing an IPO it wants to walk around trying the IPO. See how the markets feel and then we'll take it from well recommendation for your IPO. Make sure you sit down and cross. Ask Your legs before you start it to make sure it doesn't Tasso True Jack Second Story. The downfall of vaping is upon us. It's happening in front of our own vary. I'm smelling less like Caramel flavoured vaping in the streets these days so ultras big e cigarette investment might be its worst investment ever. We're talking about jewel third and final final story. Jet Hinder is going straight after Gen Z. with a built in create your own adventure interactive video series Jackie go into the burning boat or do you go right off the waterfall. I don't know whichever one you swipe will affect whoever you end up with them the rest of your life unless you pick a really weird adventure and there might be nobody nobody there. That's so true now snacks before we jump into all three of those we gotta talk about a good friend of ours Idris from Amberg Richland. WHO's a snacker who alerted US something critical this time of year? We are having a transatlantic connection on this pot. He actually submitted this as a snack for the day but we wanted it off right away. Let you know a lot of people think October. Tober fast is celebrated in October in Germany. Not that's a huge misconception. Majority of the festival is actually held in September so if you're asking about it now you may be a little bit too late so this is the only time of the year according to address that beer will be drank more than white claw which is probably positive Idris. It's a clever observation but we wanted to make sure everyone here is prepared for October fest. Even if you're just catching the talent you guys might know no big deal that I was a double major in German college so let me tell you the words you need to know. Don't go BIA yeah. That's dark beer. Hell is beer that is light beer. Here's my favorite flash. Caja sounds like a made up word. It's actually meat cheese cheese literally. That's a thing and it's not plant-based. That's the thing it's got its own section in the Food Pyramid. In Germany all part of a bounce German breath as you ever order flesh ks make sure you get Zeus Jackie don't order Fleiss Geza flash case chooses you and you end up eating it by the way suite mustard nick so excited about flesh as a forgot got this last one Jack. This one is critical sauerkraut which meets our crap which means aircraft snappers. Let's at our stores daily. FOOD IS C- Candy they don't reflect the views of robinhood family informational jeff recommending any securities. It's not a research report or investment advice uproar security digestive. I just moved business news financial. LLC member famous less SIPC four first story J. crews made well just the final two spin off from its parent company and do its own IPO. That's right made well. We'll be a separate publicly traded company separate from J. Crew Jack. I heard at this. I got chills non-nego way because when I touch jeans it gives me the chills and that's why I don't like wearing green. SMACKERS NICK HAS DENIM PHOBIA fear of Denim. He doesn't care jeans ever khaki and quarter all the way through. I borrowed a pair of Jackson's once because I was going to an. Et Concert in two thousand twelve just felt like I thought that was the thing to do I yeah I don't know why you need a denim for God's never been concert since never worn denim says no. Let's say Nikki Haley needed slimmer fit jeans than I had to offer so jack and I heard I heard that this was happening and we checked out the S. E. C.'s website but we couldn't find a filing for made well. No we were looking for the s one which is the document every company must west issue to basically tell everything about itself to investors before the IPO but J. crew is using the term Chino's holdings when it comes to made well. It's IPO filing paperwork sounds like poor codename something you'd see on zoo lander. It's like derelict to act. If you don't know made well then this is how you can think of made well based on all the pictures we've seen on the website yes there are loads of filtered pictures Insta- tastic pictures and it's everybody like trying really really really hard to look like they don't care and that they're being casual right. It's mainly women and they're basically like it looks like they're thinking. Should I go to Coachella. I don't know I think they'll be too many people there. I think I'll just stay here here in look like I'm thinking about things so made well grew up under J. Crew. It was founded in two thousand six by J. crew by the way Jay Cruzi privately held company so there's no J. crew stack but Jay has a problem and if that is taken on a lot of debt and it needs some cash to pay off that debt so here's what it's doing it's taking made well turning it into a separate company and selling elling all of those shares via this. IPO so that J. Crew has money to pay down. Its debt basically like packaging up with a little bit of that tissue paper. Maybe a sticker. They're nice for you now. HERE'S THE PROBLEM FOR J. Crew made well represents twenty four percent of its sales about a quarter and here's the other problem for J. crew made wells doing a lot better than J. Crew is because J. crew sales fell seven percent over the last year made well surged fifteen percent so the leftovers of J. crew is not gonNa look too good after made whilst got now Jack and I have jumped in snack out to a lot of IPO filing paperwork so far this year from Uber All the way to made and we got to tell you there's one key theme we're noticing made made well. Customers are loyal customers. If you're going this year you gotTa have something in there about loyalty loyalty and why people are loyally obsessed with you loyalty it brings you back into stores. WHO gives you more sales but it also prevents you from having to discount because you love the brand so we noticed in this dwell paperwork they were focused on made well insider which is like their special club program for people who can't get enough of the jeans and one of the sleep in the stuff and sixty percent of people who go to the checkout at made well by their genes are members of this loyalty program and sixty seven percent of made well sales are coming from those made well insider people which means they're spending a little bit more and then the maid well hardcore is the ones who spend over five hundred dollars a year it made well ninety percent of them are made while insiders so Jack? What's the takeaway for buddies? We're looking casual and have a few small flowers on them. Over at that made well a Wall Street analyst at best there is an ongoing resurgence in the denim cycle that nick is not taking part in not at all now he was referring going to American Eagle which happens to have a thing for right now and he upgraded the stock of American Eagle because he thought this was going to help but this Denham resurgence also has to do with with Levi's which IPO this year with wrangler which was spun off to IPO and old navy which is being spun off from gap so it can have its own publicly traded company now made well talking itself up in the US one said a substantial portion of population build everyday wardrobes out of denim and that's because made well knows jeans denim. That's that's their loyalty leader and they call it their anchor it gets you in the stores and it keeps you. They're buying more you go when you're looking for just a pair of torn and frayed mom jeans you come out with Leopard loafers a pendant necklace throwing a t shirt and boom. It's all because they match with the jeans jeans represent and are the best part of the casualization. Shen trend that lets you wear jeans at work. Let's you wear jeans at home and made well is that in a brand for second-story Walmart is ended. E cigarette sales rendering taping effectively cancelled. Yes the cigarette news has gone from bad to batter to battiste to worst dissed sounds like a raw bob book. Jack is All starts in twenty eighteen when the FDA said teen vaping was becoming an epidemic and then this summer. It's been like development after development after development is something like a quarter order of high-schoolers in this country. It's pretty crazy but then San Francisco band cigarettes altogether and then Michigan said you know what we're going to ban flavored e cigarettes it's altogether and then the FDA came out with a report a couple of weeks ago saying people are dying from vaping and they're not sure exactly why by eight are dead so far and then the entire country of China removed Joe Products Right after they started getting sold in China and India okay so China news was Wednesday Thursday India banned e cigarettes nationwide and then on Friday Walmart's that hey before the weekend we're GONNA BAN CIGARETTES TO WE'RE GONNA keep selling tobacco cigarettes cigarettes and chew but we're going to get rid of the stuff oh and by the way Senator Mitt Romney from Utah is introducing a bill to ban like a lot of things now a you you loser in this situation is ultra which is the cigarette company happens to own Marlboro. Yes and there's a relationship between the e cigarette queen which is called jewel worth thirty nine billion dollars and then you got the cigarette king which is ultra at which splurged cool twelve point eight billion dollars for thirty five percent of jewel so to be clear Jewell Jewell is a privately held company. There's no publicly traded stocks but we know that ultra owns thirty five percent of it and that was a big big investment. It's one of the biggest investments investments we've seen in a company not even to own the whole thing just a little bit of it and Jack. What is that equivalent to one lift exactly this is also so interesting because there is a perfect correlation happening between bad news with vaping and the stock decline of Ultra Ultra dock we kency because that's publicly traded and is down down thirty five percent since October twenty eighteen when it made the investment in jewel so jack take a deep breath and let us know what is the takeaway for our buddies over at jewel in Algeria? ALTRIA DID NEW YORK out those lungs mission statements like jewels can be completely wrong and this is Jules mission statement. Take get adults to stop smoking cigarettes to vape instead because that's supposed to be less dangerous yet to epic failures slash just wrongness in that mission statement. The first one is that it is an adult it's kids and the second one vaping it might not be less dangerous than cigarettes. We still need to figure that out for our third and final story. This one is wild tinder just launched an interactive show and they're calling it. Wait for it. Wait for it swipe night swipe night and not swipe right Komo right exactly and this is like a make your own adventure kind of thing kind it brings me back to like I think goosebumps book series and this when I was a kid I think it was like the Hardie boys or something but basically you get to like page twenty and then you're in some dangerous situation in the story and it's like well you follow the robber into the cave or blow up the dam and flood blood the cave go to page sixty seven to find out so we're talking about a four episode video series and it's going to premiere on October sixth on the tinder APP and just like game of thrones episodes come out on Sunday night at six o'clock but unlike game of thrones these episodes they expire within six hours boom. They're gone forever like love to go on Sunday night at six PM. Tinder says this is for users of age eighteen into twenty-five but we know what you're thinking. It's a seven year age range seems kind of small that is half of tenders user base and it strikes the heart of Gen Z. Now this is a first the person video series you're going through your APP and you're choosing your own adventure and they didn't just like whip this thing up with like a few interns over the summer they got the director of Drake's music videos does we're talking. Corinna Evans here shoot the whole thing and drake has been wildly successful with his viral videos and drake is drink now. It's an apocalypse setting setting these four episodes and users have to pick which way to go by Swiping left or swiping right every like thirty seconds during each episode. It's strange because on the one hand dating is Kinda stressful but like this seems to add a layer of stress to it. How did they describe this thing? Straight from tinder as the story unfolds you will face moral dilemmas and practical choices with only seven seconds to decide and no going back right. This is the kind of thing where like if you're in the East village trying to meet someone for drink and you've no idea who they are. It's stressful enough but whatever ever I'm captivated though and I think this is a brilliant idea. It's not just brilliant. It's extra brilliant in four different ways I is it actually gets people to sign up for tender. Just like when Netflix Tasio stranger things season three people could sign up just for this and then it leads to better engagement once you're on tinder. I'm excited about this Sunday night thing and and my wife and I might have to like set up a joint account to do this thing and then third it actually may be a loneliness fixer no matches you can still have an adventure with yourself who cares it's still saying we're talking about at dinner and then fourth and finally this could potentially lead to better connections bold claim. We'll see let's put a question mark on that that one. The claim by tender is that the shared experience of the adventure will bring you together also full disclosure here. Jack and I are completely married. We're just shocked at how cool this is and they should definitely build one for couples just to have fun and meet other couples absolutely so jack. What is the takeaway for the Romantics over tinder who are media is a differentiator for tech back? Tenders got some big rivals. It's got bumble and it's got instagram by the way tenders owned by match group which is a publicly traded stock but instagram and facebook dating it differentiates. It's up from the pack because everyone has instagram and facebook and then bumble differentiates from the pack because they do these offline. MEET UPS can actually get to know the people in a comfortable setting but tinder is doing it with media a bold new media and interactive series on an APP that we've never seen before and here's the key about media it engages users it gives them a reason to join a keeps keeps them around. It's worth talking about you can bring it up at dinner. Even though you didn't meet your match other companies are engaging users with media to away the suitcase company has a magazine Sodas airbnb airbnb tinder has basically got a TV show Jack in your whip up the take was forced to start the week made well which by the way has guys stuff too is getting itself all tailored up for an IPO. J. Crew needs the money badly so that could story Walmart is killing e cigarettes and that is a nail in the coffin of these cigarettes. Now altrusa is watching. It's thirty five percent stake. Enjoy get less and less valuable third and final story. Tinder is differentiating from bumble and facebook dating with adventures because because daddy was already adventure now could be minorly stressful extremely entertaining one snack fact the day brought by a great snacker living in San Jose California but from from Bucharest Romania where Terry True Gabriel I A- Nita Gabriel heard our story about corning glass which makes the glass that you're touching right now on your iphone yes and that specific product is called gorilla now get this guerilla grass was developed by corning in one thousand nine hundred sixty two and it was just sitting on the shelf for like forty years with no product. This was not developed for the IPHONE. This has been just waiting for its match to be made tender style. Finally in two thousand six the love of guerrilla glasses life shows up in the form of the IPHONE and it's been a moneymaker profit puppy since it's a beautiful thing we love that pair. We hope they get New York Times announcement Gabriel thank you for that snapback today. SMACKERS smackers. Thank you for joining us as always we loved kicking off the week with you guys. You'll look fantastic. Keep doing what you're doing and let's do this tomorrow. The Robin Hood Snacks podcast you just heard reflects the opinions of only the hosts who are associated persons of robinhood financial. LLC and does not reflect the views of robinhood markets INC or any of its subsidiaries Sierra or affiliates. The podcast for informational purposes only is not intended to serve as a recommendation to buy or sell any security and is not an offer or sale L. O. of a security the podcast is also not a research report and is not intended to serve as the basis of any investment decision Robin Hood Financial L._l._C. member Finra

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What The 14.7% Unemployment Rate Means

FiveThirtyEight Politics

32:26 min | 9 months ago

What The 14.7% Unemployment Rate Means

"Hello and welcome to the fivethirtyeight politics podcast by gambling drew. The Bureau of Labor Statistics released its monthly jobs report for April on Friday. Clarifying some of the data behind what many Americans already knew? The economic toll of the corona virus pandemic has been unprecedented. The unemployment rate jumped to a record. Fourteen point seven percent from a low of three point five percent just two months ago during the seventy years that the country has been tracking the unemployment rate the previous highs and unemployment were around ten percent in nineteen eighty two and two thousand nine the peak unemployment rate during the Great Depression which was before the government trap. These numbers is estimated to be around twenty five percent but as bad as the data may seem likely underestimating the damage so today we're going to dig into the numbers in the jobs report and ask what they can and can't tell us and also try to get a sense of what the future looks like so here with me to do. That is the former commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics from two thousand and thirteen to two thousand seventeen. Eric Grossman. She's currently senior faculty member at the Cornell University School of Industrial and labor relations hierarchy. Thank you for being with US. Gallons pleasure to be here. Also here with us is senior writer at five thirty eight covering the economy. Amelia Thompson Davao. Melia Halen. So we're going to get into the nitty gritty numbers in this jobs report but just to start Erica. What's your initial reaction to today's job report as somebody who spent a career thinking about an employment. Well it's historic. These numbers will go into the history books. It's unprecedented in recent history. And it helps us to understand the magnitude but it's also a good lesson in the fact that when you're talking about a situation like this that's so large and so- unprecedented and affecting such a large market. No one number is ever going to tell you everything you want to know. So the unemployment rate is an important number to look at because it has this long history. It's comparable over time but there's no way that somebody who wants to understand what's going on should stop there. They need to look at a bunch of the other. Tens of thousands of numbers at the be. Ls Put out at the same time. All right and we are going to definitely get into those numbers before we do. Amelia how are you processing this? I know you've been talking to people who have been laid off or furloughed for months now kind of seeing it all come together and this report. What's your reaction? It's still incredibly stunning. Even though in a lot of ways it's confirming what we've already been observing for the past month and a half or so. I mean the numbers of this magnitude are incredible. And you know I think we'll we'll dig into this but as Erica was saying I think part of the report that was scariest to me and sort of most telling about what's happening underneath those top line. Numbers was how widespread the losses are across industries. And how some people are being disproportionately affected on there. Were some pretty significant racial disparities younger people and part time workers are also being hit really hard and it's not that any of those things. I think were cries to people who have been following the economic fallout of the Public Health. Response TO THE CORONA VIRUS PANDEMIC. But the thing about these numbers is even though there are some important sources of uncertainty that. I'm sure we'll unpack in this podcast. It's a really high quality report. I think the folks at at the Bureau of Labor Statistics have been really responding very admirably to a difficult and very fast moving situation that our economic data was not designed to capture. Our data is not designed to capture the economy shutting down. Pretty much overnight. I think it's fair to say that when these reports and these surveys were conceived of. This was not something that anyone expected to happen. And so the fact that even though this data lags a bit. It's her mid April so the situation may have changed. It's still just really really detailed and really high quality and let us get under the surface in a lot of ways that we haven't been able to do with the more preliminary data that's been coming out. Yeah just so listeners. Understand I know. Our listeners are very familiar with us. Talking about surveys. Because we talk about polls all the time on this podcast but you know this is a survey. They've talked to tens of thousands of Americans in order to get a picture of what the economy looks like from workers perspective and employers perspective right. So it's really two surveys. Yes indeed. How many people do they actually talk to in? All this gives us a sense of how big this surveys. So it's two totally different surveys. They ask very different questions because obviously employers can tell you how many people to have on their payrolls but they can't tell you who they don't have on their payrolls right and they can't ask all the demographic answer all the demographic questions in the intention -ality questions that you can ask of the hassles so with the employers. It's the survey. The survey covers. Well over three hundred thousand workplaces every month right and it captures about one third of the jobs in the country every month on the household side. They talked to sixty thousand families every month and that covers about one hundred and twenty thousand working age adults. And they're that survey is much more. Detailed has got all the demographics it covers. People who are out of the labor force people who are unemployed and it goes into a lot of detail about About their situation is and the bill puts them together because these two different perspectives are really important to understanding the labor market? As a whole. You're saying that while the unemployment rate is useful and has a long history so you can compare over time that you have to look at a lot of other numbers in order to actually understand what's going on in the economy today in terms of what struck you by surprise what out to you in looking through today's job report. What worries you or maybe makes you optimistic. So one of the things that I did in the run-up to this report was trying to think really hard about what my fundamental question was and I decided that my question was of the jobs that we had in February how many of them have been ended temporarily permanently and how many of them went to part-time right. And we're basically otherwise disrupted so of that whole number of jobs that we had in February. We know this hammer came down in. How many of those jobs were affected and so they added up actually six different kinds of disruption and. I looked at those and if it comes down to. Is that almost a quarter twenty three point? Four percent of jobs were disrupted in one of these ways or another that includes people who have a job but they were not at work. Those numbers swelled and the BIA less concerned about many of them actually really belonging in the temporary layoff category. But this is how the people answer the question and be less doesn't monkey with that just an unprecedented number of people who answering the question as if they were on something like an unpaid family leave but they're probably not because it just wouldn't of swelled up in this way then you have a huge entry of people into where people working part time for economic reasons. Then you have workers who are officially laid off so you can imagine that very small employer might not actually say to people you are laid off. They might say you're just going on on leave right but larger employer more formal employer than probably notified. The workers that they were on temporary layoff. Those numbers swelled by almost seventeen million so all of those those three categories of workers. They're all maintaining their relationship with their employer in some way or another. And that's something that we can. We can return to right. We can talk about that. Then the other categories I looked at was the increase in an unemployed workers who are not on temporary layoff. And here's the thing that surprised me. This number didn't go up. It went down just by small amount. Five hundred thousand in in the scale of things we're looking at today so you almost nobody who got a pink slip and said okay now. I I've been fired now. Going to look for work. That just didn't happen. What they seem to have done is saying well. I'm not going to be looking for work until this is over. Because we had a huge increase in the number of people who say they're not looking for work recounted his out of the labor force. So if you add all these folks up you end up with over. Twenty three percent of the labor force. Having jobs disrupted and that's not certainly not counting all the people working from home like you and me or many of the people who took pay cuts if some kind to that's right that's something that we can't really see in this employer said we're going to have to pay you eighty percent of your salary through the end of. May or whatever you know. They said this at the beginning of April. They're not going to be counted in this either. What you know in theory that would be counted but the problem is there. Such large compositional changes that it show up so most of the people who lost their jobs are low wage jobs that drives the average wage of the people remaining up. And so you. You can't doesn't register that we've had these pay cuts you're gonNA need much more detailed data to go after that right right. It's sort of hard to Parse this report. Yeah I was also very struck by the fact that there weren't more permanent layoffs in this report I have to say I was expecting to see a spike in that and it was encouraging cautiously encouraging. To me to see that because obviously it's much better for people to maintain a relationship with their employer because in theory. What's different about this recession from other recessions is that there wasn't something fundamentally wrong with the economy we had to stop the economy because if a pandemic and so or were you know slowed down significantly like in theory. Businesses are already starting to reopen in stem states. People should be able to go back to work and you would hope that things would be able to get moving again and people would really want to go out and do the things that are safe to do. And it's just it'll be much much easier for businesses to reopen if they've maintained that relationship with their employees so I think it's encouraging to see that more employers are not just laying people off and saying goodbye. You don't work for me anymore. Good luck that. They're trying to sort of keep a relationship with their employees. Despite everything that's happening the way I would temper my optimism and I'm curious to hear what you think of this Erica. Is You know in the states. That aren't reopening as quickly. And given that the reopening kind of partial and it seems like there are going to be some businesses that are allowed to open. I and others will open much later. I'm in Illinois and there's this whole sort of five step plan for how things will reopen and things are very staggered and so I guess my concern would be that as this goes on. Would some of those relationships either. Bees to more formally severed or would workers just you know. Let's say they work at a restaurant and they just haven't heard from their boss in a long time and they start thinking. Gee I really don't have a job to go back to or do some of these businesses start going under and so that's the sort of. I think the big question mark is kind of like how do those relationships hold up as this persists and how many of those businesses can actually stay afloat but it is really good to see that at least in theory a lot of these people do have jobs to go back to right and so by my count about four. Fifths of these disrupted employment. Relationships maintain the relationship with the employer. So that's really good. I'm totally in agreement with you on that. But the question of how long can that survive? We don't really have you know the data go on with that there. I think you just have to use your common sense in the longer that this goes on the more likely three things will happen. You mentioned two of them. One of them is that the employer goes under. And that's why certainly the idea of the P P P and the feds loans to businesses are to try and keep businesses that otherwise viable businesses alive until they can start up again. The other possibility is that the employees decides to break it off because they can't hold on for so long and they go find something else so. That's a possibility. And then there's the third one that we can only begin to speculate about his. How many business models of these employers have to change which will change their staffing requirements? So although this wasn't about the economy being fundamentally in bad shape we do have long run. Changes that employers are reacting to and they may use this to push further in that direction and we have new things. We've learned and new practices that are going to be in place going. Forward that may change staffing relationships so staffing in nursing homes may change staffing in restaurants. Could well change in and another customer facing jobs. Those may change that could change the needs of employers so all of those things mean. They're probably will be some big structural changes from this. That will be hard to adapt to one more thing. I'M GONNA throw out though. I think that glee is consistent with With the point you made is the the last. Three recessions had almost no use of temporary layoffs by employers to adjust to the recession and we had long jobless recoveries after them all right. This time I'm with you that maintaining these relationships is necessary for a quick rebound. It made up be sufficient but but it is necessary. Yeah is it fair to say? I know that the cares act was enlarge part designed to incentivize employers to keep the relationship with employees. So that they don't have to retrain them do background checks etcetera etcetera etcetera. Is it fair to say that the is act has been a success in that regard? Well I only know what I'm reading in the newspaper about that. It sounds like it's been less of a success than intended. Sounds like it. Maybe wasn't large enough and it by using the mechanisms that they used. The tendency was for larger employers to have more access to it than smaller employers. So I think that that was a problem and I think there's a little bit of an education element there too that employers aren't used to paying people to not work got kind of goes against the grain and maybe a little bit hard for them to do that. And then finally some of the uncertainty about how it's going to be applied in whether or not the money will be grant or alone may make work employers also reluctant to To use it to pay workers for something they get no benefit from because they may have to then pay it back. Yeah another thing. I've heard from business owners. I've talked to is that the time span is also a concern for them. You know this is just something that runs into the summer and I think a lot of people are looking at this and saying we don't know how long this is. GonNa last but we are not going to be reopening in the way that we were before certainly not for the foreseeable future at not possibly ever Sa- does it really make sense for me to bring my staff back in the way that they were before or try to keep paying them you know. Do I think like as you were saying Erica? That point about does the way. Some businesses are run. Change kind of fundamentally response to this business. Owners are grappling with that and that may also have complicated the way that they're able to use the federal assistance or even their willingness to use it and to clarify for folks who aren't familiar the part of the paycheck protection program. Was You get alone? And if you keep your employees employed through a certain date to a certain extent then the loan becomes a grant and so that was kind of how that incentive work I do want to ask though with these really bad numbers that we're talking about and the degree to which employers have maintained relationships with employees in your estimate is the worst of this behind us or is it are we still on the downward trend. Well we have two things that we know of happened. One is that this only carries through mid April and we know that job losses continued at least through the end of April. By the same token we are seeing certainly some states a lightening up on restrictions so those two will kinda counteract each other to some extent how much they will. We don't know but I suspect that the levels of unemployment may not look that different in a month and they are now because we have these two countervailing forces. I mean that's sort of best. Guess right pushing further than that were really getting into the realm of what the virus does what the policy responses to that and so if the epidemiologists who are worried about second and third and continuing waves about this or about are sitting at a very high plateau for a long time are correct and these new levels probably aren't going to be reduced for to buy too much for a while on the other hand if we get our our testing are tracing our treatments and ultimately the vaccine in place pretty effectively than the fact that we we don't have these relationships means we could have a very fairly quick rebound. You mentioned that there's only goes through mid April so we've had another three weeks of potential job losses under our belt at this point if we actually wanted a picture of what the economy what. The labor market looked like. Today what do you think the actual unemployment rate is today so the LS gave us a hint by saying that if they transferred all of these folks who are employed but not on the job the counted them as having been been on temporary layoff then. The unemployment rate would be very close to twenty percent. So that's one measure. The other measure is that the less always produces this thing they call a fondly call you six which is the broader measure of labor market utilization. And although I'm usually fine with just using the unemployment rate because you six sending unemployment rate more more or less together so that gives you the same picture this time because we have so many people who are on temporary layoff and so many people who report themselves as wanting a job who are out of the Labor Force. I think looking at you. Six is particularly useful and US six even without the correction that be less talked about went up to twenty two point eight percent so if we add in that other five percent then we're talking about an unemployment rate under utilization rate of a twenty eight percent. Something like that right. So I think that that's the range that we're talking about under utilization around twenty eight percent unemployment rate about twenty percent. Yeah and I think for me. It is helpful to try to think in ranges right now because there is you know. These numbers are so huge. That even if there's a there's a confidence interval on all of these and the losses are just so huge that even within that confidence interval there's like of actual people the challenge is like we have data that moves fast. We have some data that moves fast and we have some data that is very thorough and provides a clearer picture and this report falls into the very thorough in clearer picture category but not really into the fast category and obviously we've been seeing the weekly initial unemployment claims data. So I think what I've been trying to do is think about like what the ranges are that. This report seems to be telling us how that fits with what this other data is showing us. It's all pretty apocalyptic so I think there is kind of a tendency to just be like. Wow this is really really bad. Does it matter exactly how bad it is but it actually really does matter to know as precisely as we can how bad it is because we need to know who the people are who are being most hurt. When one of the things that really jumped out of this report to me again was the people who just seem to be getting hammered by. This recession are low. Wage workers people who already might have been in part time employment younger workers and You know sort of being able to see that even in this data from mid April is really helpful Yep and I think one other thing we may see is some exit from the Labor forces people with underlying conditions and elderly workers so the one bright area we had had in of recent past in terms of labor force participation was older workers their participation was increasing. And now you may have people say well. You know if I'm going to be at risk of catching the virus from working then maybe I I will retire now and folks who have underlying conditions before That didn't prevent them from working. May Now feel that those conditions do prevent them from doing some cases from doing the jobs that they were doing before. So we're GONNA have that effect to. We've been talking a lot about numbers and I know Amelia. You've been doing a lot of reporting on the ground and while this is a data story it's also a human story are people behind all of these job. Losses what kind of stories are you hearing from people about how this is affecting their lives? I think one of the reasons that I was really interested to look at the demographic information and the information by industry in this report. Sort of like the numbers that are underlying the main headline numbers that everyone sort of usually reads in these reports and then moves on is because the impact has been so disproportionately distributed on groups. That are maybe less able to handle an economic shock of this magnitude. And also it's hit unexpected places so one thing that I have come across a lot of our people who work in various parts of the healthcare industry saying I've lost my job. My hours have been seriously cut at the service. That might seem really counterintuitive because this is a pandemic and the healthcare sector. You shouldn't be affected in the healthcare sector also isn't usually effected in recessions and the issue is that a lot of doctors offices and elective procedures have been basically put on hold and those are what. Bring a lot of money into the healthcare industry And so you know. I think we really saw that in this report that healthcare and then also education especially private education is being hit really hard. And that's certainly something that I've heard you know talking to doctors who are really figuring out how they're going to keep their practices open or dentists and then there's the question of the demographics and who's really being hit and I think I'm repeating a little of what I said before but I just think it's so important to understand that they're always sort of disparities in in the way that recessions and economic shocks hit people but this one the unemployment rate for Hispanic workers was almost twenty percent historically high and the unemployment rate for black workers also higher than for Asian or white workers although it was a little lower than for Hispanic workers and that's a reversal. I mean that's right. Inverse normally the Hispanic unemployment rates have been significantly lower than the rest and now they've shot up to higher. We noticed that last month and the trend has been even starker. This time. It's really dramatic. The other thing is that Asian Americans have usually had a lower than average unemployment rate. And now they've shot up to a little bit higher than unemployment rate for whites which probably reflects their by modal distribution either both on average more highly educated and more people in the low education levels as well yeah well and the other sort of demographic thing that I think is important to point out is that this is also seems to be hitting women harder. the unemployment rate for women hire. And that's also something that we usually don't see in where we haven't seen in recent recessions sort of men have been hurt. I in terms of the job losses and they've had a higher share of job losses. And I think that again is just reflective of the incredibly weird nature of this and it's it's hitting industries that don't usually get hit in economic downturns and industries like healthcare and education have higher shares of women. And so all of these things I think are just are are really important. You know in terms of the challenges that people are facing schools are closed right now. Mothers tend to have a higher share of childcare responsibilities. Anyway women are also being hit harder economically those are really important things to understand and then it's also important because I think there's GonNa be a there already is starting to be a discussion about okay. This is a crisis that is not going to be resolved by the time this aid to employers and employees that Congress passed late March has expired which is happening over the summer. So are we going to continue to support people in some way and understanding who's being hardest hit and the fact that you know. Low wage workers are continuing to really bear a lot of the brunt of the impact of this recession. Yeah I think that Some of the low wage workers have faced a very difficult choice. They can stay out of a job and tab this this loss of income and maybe not be able to claim unemployment insurance benefits or they can go back to a very dangerous job. A job at that wasn't maybe wasn't that dangerous before but has become dangerous and that's a new reality that is very troublesome in one word in strict economic sense. We can hope that that that some part of that will translate into at least higher compensation for those workers who choose to go back because they are accepting a risk that That wasn't there before and and should be compensated. Yeah it sounds like from listening to your comments Erica. That really dissolution year is to get the pandemic under control. And we've talked about this a lot how it is both an economic problem and a public health problem. So you guys aren't public health. Experts won't ask you what the government should be doing from that perspective. We've talked about it. I mean from an economic perspective wrapping up here. What are the questions that the government has to have to answer here about where they intervene at this point if they can intervene shorter getting the pandemic under control? I think there are two things that I think is really important. One is that For a certain amount of time the goal is not stimulus I cringe when people call the cares act. Stimulus Act what it is. Is Life support while we put the economy on a medically induced coma right and so we need good policy for keeping businesses viable and workers able to pay their rent and afford food and all of that during the shutdown period. Then afterwards we will need stimulus package because we have a depressed economy that we want to come back and those those goals are a bit different. You know we. I don't think right now. We need to worry about declining labor force participation right now. We actually want a lot of people staying home and not working. That's the goal. We just need to keep them alive and the businesses alive then when things are under control then we need a good stimulus package and remember that in the Great Depression. Even the huge works projects and new deal projects weren't sufficient to Polis out of the Great Depression. It took World War. Two to do that because we were even those great new deal. Projects were not enough so we are at a Great Depression. Level unemployment rates right. Now we are going to need stimulus efforts once we have the pandemic under control. That are probably going to be much larger than we've ever seen before if we want to get out of the depress state quickly and I think that's that's going to be a big challenge for our economic and our political system aright. That seems like a good place to leave things. So thank you so much for joining us today. I got my pleasure. Thank you for having me Eric. Aggression is the former commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics from two thousand thirteen to two thousand seventeen and she is currently a senior faculty member at the Cornell University School of Industrial and labor relations. And of course thank Amelia Chorus. Amelia Thompson is a senior writer covering the economy. Here at five thirty. My name is Gail Andrew. Tony Child is in the virtual control room. You can get in touch by emailing US. At podcast at five. Thirty eight DOT COM. You can also of course tweeted us with questions or comments. If you're a fan of the show leave us a rating or review in the apple? Podcasts store or tell someone about us. Thanks for listening and we'll see.

Erica Bureau of Labor Statistics US Labor Force Eric Grossman commissioner Amelia Thompson Davao writer Cornell University School of I faculty member Amelia Melia Halen Illinois BIA
Tokophobia

Mentally Yours

28:53 min | 1 year ago

Tokophobia

"After a long day of being pulled in every direction the last thing anyone wants to think about is what's for dinner. That's where schwann's can help with a variety of real food. Choices frozen to lock and freshness from ready made meals premium meats, inside dishes to vegetables, ice cream, and more schwann's foods go from freezer to table in minutes not hours, so you can pull off a delicious meal in no time at all ordered delivered done. That's homemade easy to help simplify mealtime. Visit Sean dot com. It can be that you're scared of one particular enemy compete. You're scared of it feel sell for it for the baby. I think I was just gauge all own a bit to be quite honest. Mentally. Focus on. You mentioned that he should be labor. Grad tits mentally into me, Antony entity. Then to you. Mentally. Have you one and welcome to mentally, yours metro to cut it UK's weekly mental health podcast? I'm that's and I'm Ellen and this week between Lorna Cooke, she's an author, and she was has talker phobia, which the fear of childbirth despite that she has two children. So we're gonna be talking about how she managed that. And what it's like to have taco phobia in general. So talk. Afo BIA, can you tell us a bit about basically, what that is? And when you start being affected by it. Well, technically only found out what Kobe was when I was in the final stages of my pregnancy, really. And the consultant decided that's what he was going to call it. And I then had to kind of go away, Google it because I haven't heard about if basically fair of childbirth, but it comes in many different guises from being scared of various elements of it, and it can be the get one particular element be. You're scared of it feel sell for it for the baby. I think I was just gained all own a bit to be quite honest. And I kind of found that when I was pregnant, but it went away back to when I was quite young and had my fast taste of a sex education class. And it was cemented than I think, so, before you became pregnant, did you know that you had this fear? Yes. I did night what? It was cold. But yes, I know how to name I didn't think it was a real fair, that other people had, I felt like it might just be me. But now it's not that it does happen to other people. But yeah, it was just back when I was ten years old. And I think that was when I realized it was part of a video reworked video sex education began, and I didn't think affected everybody the way affected me. But I realized then that if I was going to have a baby was not coming out for the usual way. What was this video about was it very graphic? Who's at one of these sort of was, it remember one born every minute was very of so often can watch one born every minute and so never seen an episode over. But I do hit, I hate what is like can. No, I knew that I couldn't keep watching that. I wasn't graphic, but there was a lot of shouting and screaming, and it was basically designed to it was a complete bugs in the bees took from, you know, menstrual cycles street. He yeah, it went through everything. And then we came away at the end. Of it with a free pack of town packs, you know, it was sort of strange. Hey, go, his everything you need to know on it. Yeah. So it was very it was a very old old video, but there was a lot of screaming and shouting, and then a sort of a voice, I even the screen fades to black ends. It'll go and visit how children come out and that was that was more than enough for me about what I think that the sound pretty sky to be on. This is one of these five years, I think, in other people well, I Don battles we will, but I certainly would kind of relate to, I don't have children. But I think a lot of people it seems very natural to be scared of childbirth, because it does seem a pretty scary thing and a difficult thing to go through. But what's the difference between sort of me thinking, oh, that's probably bit tricky or you know, that seems like a pretty scary thing to do? And the phobia that you have is a very good question. I have yet to meet somebody who's looking forward to giving birth. And I think people, I think, quite honest about it to people. But it took me very long time to be honest about it to people. And I think whenever it was mentioned, you know, when I was pregnant when other people to pregnant Bill, the people say, oh, I'm really scared. I'm really scared. And of course, I wouldn't you be like you should be scattered going to be awful unite. It's like when you have a baby everybody lies to you about what is like anyway, not always, you'll be fine. You'll be fine. But I'm not really sure what the real differences between a more, I had only I cried every time I thought Bauer set it ruined a lot of my early pregnancy because I had to wait a long time for appointments to discuss it with anybody consultants will midwives, and so there was a huge fear, but I think I'd built up more and more and more, and I knew it wasn't going to go away. And I knew that it was so cemented that when eventually they offered counseling and it just counseling I, I always loved him. I thought this is this is too too late for this now. We've gone forty five but counseling is not gonna reverse years of this mental anguish and damage, but half you. About tackling this phobia, because if it's sort of gone back for so many years, it, yes, it was the sort of fairly ingrained. It is in grains, I, I guess, because I had my teacher now I'm not going have any more. I am okay with it now, but I wouldn't wouldn't go through giving birth naturally where right to have a baby. I mean it's one of those things that it what he's couldn't abou-. When you go to NC, Tikos chop and clauses, in things I went to make friends really. I didn't go to learn about how sick it birth. And what would happen because I in my head, I was having a c section. So I listened to leave very Frank stories and sort of put them away. But with this isn't happening to me, so I don't really need to worry about this. Hits yet is really tricky on the navy b- talks about so tackling that fear is something that you, you need to tackle by shouting really loudly, whenever you go your appointments, if it's a genuine, fair, real, real genuine fan. I'm not saying everybody should go have a C section just because I found it because that's not what can the park either? But he is not something that people talk about. So for me, I felt very alone. I felt like I must be any person does not cause neighbor downstairs, saying that they're really really, really petrified. What's really interesting to me is so you have this phobia, at the sun really difficult, but you still as you say, you've had children, so you had the phobia, but you still really keen to have children as well. You aren't going to let that fast or be having children. Where was the sort of point where you're just like I'm still going to have children and was it you that made the decision to have the C-section was it? The doctor where was can you tell us a bit more about that period? I put off having my says child for say about. Route three or four years. I think, in the end it was my husband. He very frankly, sent me down said, it's unite into now on that, but we're just going to have to get on with this, and I was very, very lucky in that we go pregnant variability own. It doesn't happen, too low people when we found out, we were expecting a baby on C that was that huge amount of happiness. In all everything you go through when you see the pregnancy task off a few minutes in that nine and then they was the horrible, crushing feeling you get when, you know it's going to be on. It was it was a horrible home feeling still still remember when I go, this baby, come out, somehow and one of the conversations we had you do everything ri-, take you folic acid supplements Anina. You live that happy, will, I'm going to be a moment. And then, you know there was always always it was like a half and hall happiness in panic about what to do. Who do I tell and I won't do I how do I go about this? Because I, I kind of researched walked in the options were a new here. These horrible, phrases like to push to push and amusing, well I'm not supposed to push to scare to person. How do I go about something that one out? Than off that when I went to Dr surgery. And I am they were kind of as a strange thing. I, I went to talk to surgery. And I said it would let's see midwife I'm pregnant, and I think I changed doctors often as for a reasonable become apparent in a second. When the reception said tonight, what pens, see midwife, if you don't want to keep the baby strange thing to say, so I changed doctor's promptly after that, that didn't help between. And then I go in a great MICH wife, he was lovely. She realistic to me, ensued, unsuitable K. Well, we will we'll have a chat about this next appointment on Costa tonight. It's a couple of months away. C K. So then you have to live with this awful awful, fair for months men, the next time she realized I was very, very serious. Very, very panicky. I've been crying lot thinking about set and then she referred me the counseling, but United been going through pregnancy for good few months is point. And then the counseling appointment never came. I think that must have been some socioeconomic Clara, and then the next lemon through the counseling signaled what is never never common. I, I will. I now I'm not gonna know going to work but I will play the game. I will go through the motions and in the council, it's never came. And then she took me to very serious said, I'm going to refer to consultant because, you know, having a C section. So something we just hand out. So I'm going to have to get somebody else tool finds it. So then I went to a consultant he was very unfriendly and did not do. Well, pussy me is I is holding. I think you have to be Brady Lau in shouting, when you think things like this. When you feel your genuinely meetings is naturally allowed in shanty passan. And so, I think you quite a quite a quite soul. I'm not quite Salida, but if you want a coin who so you really, really feel, this is what you wanna see sections, what you won't because you're petrified. I do think the. It just doesn't make it easy for you. And of course they make easy. They just wanna hand these things out. But it is, I'm not sure they take very seriously. Unsigned that was basically battle. And then that consultants said to me, well, I'm going to slide today so you can have to go away and I'm gonna leave you to think about it. I don't like go to thinking about this for the best fall to Keiji. No name when I came back off, though came about for the appointment. He was on holiday on two different consultant and not consultant knows just a goat send an he listened and he was he was on the common from a from a hospital in Greece. And he understood completely and was absolutely wonderful, infant tastic and agreed. And oh God. I just folk a completely different pass in a complete on felt like having a completely different pregnancy, one like a completely enjoy thoroughly thoroughly enjoy and know that at the end bit, I was going to give the way I wanted to give bath and the I wouldn't enjoy C-section than anybody enjoys major operations. That I knew that it was what I needed for my mental wellbeing. You've done this twice which I think is kind of surprising because you have this phobia was the second time any easier. So the second time was easier because when you've had a C section one, they let you have it again without any aggravation. So I knew that that was what was going to happen. So it wasn't the being pregnant that scared me. It was basically one of the better for as the exit strategy. So I need that. I mean having a C section is, is pretty tough going as well. We offer fix, especially, you know, you can't walk very well for a long time. A lot of pain. But that to me was preferable than what I thought was going to happen to me when the usual way. So, yes, the second time was was much easier mentally. Because I knew on you, I hadn't stool with the exit strategy, as he put it won't about it, specifically sketchy. What about give me all of that? I think I think it was the pain of contractions is fear of the unknown isn't it because I never had contractions. So I, I still don't know what they're like, but it was the fear of the pain of contractions reload painter showed, but it was fat, and then it was the whole labor process. It was the worry it with whatever you see a drama on TV birth is never easy, and it's not meant to be easy, but it would be nice if it was, there's a, there's a lot of screen Hain says, I've never heard a success. Awful the story in that oversee the I've had luckily ones where babies are born, and that's fantastic. And they come out on everything's fine. But I've never had one went a friend didn't rip terribly or have allotted blog loss or some of the horror stories I think I had had. And I think dramas on TV Deuba any favors. So it was a very big combination of everything that I was frightened of, and I really felt I wide for the baby a lot. I worried for me a lot. I want need what would happen if the cool gets neck, what will happen if she gets stuck, you know, it, I'm worried for everything absolutely everything with your friends. Have you been able to hear about that kind of labor story is that too difficult from win? Light I work out. But you could have a C section you know, if you really really pushed hard enough. I could he stories and I it would just made it just cemented. It further onto new on couldn't do it, but I could hear them not you pass out or anything but it was just. Oh, that cringe shudder? Mainly, please. No, please. No don't want miss. I can't really compare it. Anything fact I'm frightened of flying over still getting a plane. But, you know, you just think please, please note today, you know, peacetime dropped from the sky, not today, kind of as notice now at the thing to compare it to you. But I, I can hey stories now because I feel like I'm on the other side event affair like I'm not having any more children, and so the histories and not be frightened. I can hear them in comfort people in thing, all old, little little, there is a public, but once today body off prec- section, but that's not very helpful. So don't do though. But yeah, it's it's today's drinking. Have you met many other Indies any other people with talk? No, I never have. I don't know what to read breed. I think we're rare-breed. No. I've maybe have been scan is a remind him I had a friend who, who are could tell you haven't been, which tell that many people say during NC T groups at grapes, and he made nothing friends, and I didn't tell any of them, I was doing, even when we became really good friends, and we took about terrible things happening to us. I couldn't I just couldn't tell them I'm having a C section. And he's the reason why as such judgment from all people. So I didn't think it was worth it and people try to talk him out to bed as well. And so it's such a strange. I just realized quickly on that. It's not something I could really voice because I was going to get a barrel of people judging, and then people going when wanting you just give guy. But so you have friends who were really scared. I did have a friend, who listen he went to old end afterwards. And she said, this is what I'm gonna do not pitch. This is I'm gonna day and she tried, and she, she's a love note to find unsafe. She didn't find very hard and she didn't have the confidence in the meetings with consultants because she did get referred consultants midwestern series center on and she distinct point hold enough. And they wouldn't let her I felt awful her that Gordon is, is it can turn on a sixpence. You couldn't you can get a great consultant. Hey will listen to you what you shake with fear when he was saying, okay, it's fine. You can do this, and you can get one. He just rejects. The idea just is not going to through that which is great for great value. Or would you feeling it does he porn while the often dimension looking back now at that time? And that sort of paradise via. Do you think that there's anything to stick lead that you could have done about time to change your mind? So you could have an ultra birth if you'd wanted it for example, because for other kinds of phobias you have things like hypnotherapy various kinds of counseling. Would do you think you might might consider some that like that? Or is it just complete sort of complete your cards? I did consider the counseling when they offered it to me. I certainly didn't say God. No, I'm not doing that. I did fair Kate. Fine. Let's do it. I think it's a shame. That there was a clerical error, and I never got referred. I am not sure how successful, it would have been because I felt like this fear was so deeply apart me that it was gonna take a lot of counseling sessions to, to stop that. Fair enough for me to agree to go. Three childbirth naturally. There is no way you can experience any that will. Oh. Had to put miss says, compare it to the fear of flying. I think you have a lot of times with an actual pilot. Don't you explain ta will goes on opinion? Why plane suddenly fool in he pockets and then bounced back can carry on normal? And then you know you have enough obey sessions, we may put you on a plane, and then you get to fly around with a pilot discussing how old wax said you get action experience flying with the pilot Nikon experience, the Chong breath to get you out all the feel the childbirth unless you have John job. I'll bet. So I couldn't work out how I was going to get out of this vicious circle of desperate fear. I just couldn't look at how counting was going to do that. Have you been there for any of your friends blows? I don't want to want to witness it on think I couldn't even watch one born every minute. I just couldn't. I wasn't even sure how graphic one born every minute was really showed me, the NYSE T group would of my friends, getting from port every minute is only five minutes on our little chat. Oh, god. Why doing this yourself and why would you want to see? And I still Dino how graphic it is. I didn't if I could watch it now knowing I'm not going to have another baby. Kootenai watch it nowadays. I know it's a test don't have to say I have to say, I haven't actually watched to is it graphic guys seen it. But to a site is fun at bit boring, because I don't have kids, and I was an interesting. But yeah, I mean I thought it was fairly graphic it, there was a lot of the sort of shout in the you're talking about because it's it can be very painful. So. For me. It wasn't particularly pleasant viewing I think, sort of so maybe one or two episodes. And I think the idea of it was that, you know, you're meant to focus on all the joy of the baby, which, of course, his love is lovely, but for me, I was just like, yeah, but you have to watch all that stuff before. But maybe some people would find it helpful because then they go into you childbirth with more of an idea of what actually is going to so that when it happens to, you might have more rough idea and as oppose maybe if I was going to think about having a baby, I would start watching one one every minute. So I could think, well, actually, you know, as other women have done this. They've been through it. You know, sometimes things might have gone wrong, but, you know, generally have Hank's fine, and yeah, exactly even if things go wrong. That's it's usually fine anyway. So the reason I was actually I was wondering if it would be helpful to see like a postive birth experience, because I know you mentioned that none of your friends have ever could have reported back. It's been joyful and really pleasant, but there on people in the motive have had spoken to someone who's graphic, but all Gaza hearing. Giving birth. Which I think is why. But like. Don't going on down there isn't that while it's happening feasible. So I'm just wondering if you think that seeing a positive experience would have been helpful. I. Tell you now I whether I could have brought myself to watch it law. I, I hear about lovely lobby stories where, you know, people don't take the opponent is in, they take their best friend in his suits of some. Do I think that lovely for everyone in vote is long as they continue with that? I just a midwives all say calm, it's all very, there are combing factors to giving birth naturally. Everybody tries very best navy wants to run around shouting. But no, I don't know whether the old story of, oh, it was lucky. I just coughed in the baby came out would have done anything to Iran's a k the remaining ninety nine percent of stories. I'd hood which just sounded like Helen taste exactly. Soukous phobias on the no necessarily logical, this one kind of is because we do know that childhood is legal. But it's the same as if you scared of snakes, and someone's like well, I have a lovely snake and loan that's not going to. No, no, you're right. So what advice, would you give to anybody listening to this? He thinks are. Yes. This is me finally someone talking about this and thinks there might also have taco phobia. I think it's I didn't take the decision lightly to do it. And so, I think if you do have this then, you know, it's a genuine, fair and makes you shake it makes you cry. And it's ruining your experience of being pregnant because you look this tiny lovely thing inside you and think oh, God. This is awful. This is not, why is it happening to me, then I think you need to be strong, and you need maybe take somebody with you. I think that's why my friend go, you know, rejected so to speak. I think she didn't have anybody with her on her side helping her on her call now. And I think if you speak to amid wiping, your very own est, and you just have to say eating stay exactly how you feeling you will have to go through the ropes you will have to probably have counseling, and you will have to talk to. Consultants multiple times is not something that they get fixed within three or four points. You will have to keep going. I give you genuinely feel the fan than do speak up and do fight. You just have to be a bit of a fight because I was told by consultant at the very horrible consultant that, well, this will cost the NHS around ten thousand pounds, and we might Bill, you for it, and an I sort of in a panic though. Right alone. I can do that. Or can I can do the advocate lion? I think you really shouldn't be put through the if it's a genuine failure really shouldn't be told, you know, you might have to pay the NHL ten ground beaten so you do have to fight me. No in a nice way. But you know you're pregnant and stressful enough without having this kind of thing on your mind for months, amongst a months on end. But I'm going to be fine. Some plenty of people have c sections for reasons that nice as yeah. It's, it's shocking that you have to complete sort of fight for this tool yet. Lira you do. I mean when I went into have my baby, and we had a pre-appointed -ment because it was a little done so much mold ni. When you know, you'll pre-booked one, you get the date, your baby to be born, which is a very surreal letter to open by looks baby midwife felt the baby and said, oh, your spine, to spine, with your baby. And I said, what does that mean and she said, you know? It will be an interesting birth where you to do it normally. And I thought, well, very gay then. Was kinda pet that sort of validated a little bit? But even then that wouldn't have been enough to send me fritzy section made midwesterner we'd have given not jolly good go. And then, you know, we'd have gone in for emergency were on a mess hall. Golly, why why you know so yeah, it's, it's not easy. You mentioned on one of the stereotypes of the to push to push thing. Have you had kind of any judgment from album of those four have c section and specifically for having it because if you'll focus in the early days of my first baby because I, I told a couple of people, you know, I'm having a C section. And, you know, people he would like nine people, I didn't know that well in popey, shouldn't have told I didn't tell anyone in my NC, T group until all wins Lolo towards us off to its in his eighth graders about falling but yene it was judgment because people can't comprehend the phobia. I mean I didn't even know it was had a name I didn't ever have name. Until the lovely consultant who briefed actually told me, I'm gonna call his cO taka fehb. You're on your fool may say Kay the joint. What does that mean? He said until man. Oh, okay. Got now would I can go and Google? But yeah, there is judgment. I think I think it's Bush Depeche it because why isn't you don't want to stand there and say, some right here we go? I'm going to inform you between two minutes Matt Wong. I'm doing this e I shouldn't have to inform. The twenty minutes about wire and doing this, but you felt really in the end undistorted lying, which. Is a bit strange ways a gay. But people say, why aren't you see section on Goan babies? Breach told us is that in the end they said, oh, we know when you go through points, we go new, a may say, oh, but a normal birth are no C-section, go problems new year. I don't know going into this. I'm looking. You should not have couldn't defend determinant any nurse midwives, all to it did sort of go really, you know, and it was an interest, but it was sort of ood you freak so to interest. And so in the end she was breached to substantiate degrees, baby Musselwhite precedes section when they bowl that, so I stopped having to lock found easy stranger listener begun resort to these things, but it was too horrible long to be a new mommy to be struggling with everything about breastfeeding. Everything that comes with that sleep is nights, and then to have midwives tunnel, you're doing and sort of been judgy, because you had a C section because you'll get. Get on with me. Mentally. If you've been affected by any of the issues, we've been chatting about today. Please give the Samaritans a ring on one one six one two three or go to Martin's dot org. If you enjoy this episode, please givers rate and review on itunes follows on Twitter, mentally, while s and join our Facebook group where we are all things mental health. It's just called mentally yours. Thanks very much to our producers supplement Juliette Nichols, unto Lucy Baker for jingles CNN last week. Now is the chance to use reliable energy to grow your money with the dominion, energy reliability investment. Our new investment product offers competitive returns, no, maintenance fees, and flexible, online access to your money, make the reliable investment in reliable energy, the dominion, energy reliability, investment to find out more go online to reliability, investment dot com. That's reliability investment dot com.

consultant NC Google UK navy Bill Afo BIA schwann Antony Kobe Ellen Lorna Cooke Matt Wong Dr surgery Samaritans Twitter early pregnancy CNN Frank
S2 EP2: Why Civil's Token Sale Failed

ZigZag

48:24 min | 2 years ago

S2 EP2: Why Civil's Token Sale Failed

"Morning, it is the last day of the token sale, and you just sent me a voice memo that I swear to God. I almost recorded the exact same voice memo morning. It's the last day of the civil token sale. Ino- been working their butts off over the weekend to get people to donate to help people who've struggled to donate. But the number has gone up that much. It's one point, four, two, I think I didn't quite understand why anywhere hadn't like incrementally, but tokens in the past like three or four days. But I guess they were trying to get normal people to buy in or something still. So if the whale comes in, it's to be protea BIA's that it's a last minute rescue operation or thing. This whole thing's just going to go out with a whimper will see. What a day looking forward to seeing what happens day. I don't know. I'm glad it's going to be over to see later by. This is exactly our podcast about changing the course of capitalism, journalism and women's lives. I'm a new summer ODI when that was me and my co, founder Jen point, your new listener, and you don't know what Wales and token sales are. We will explain ought to do with civil blockchain startup for journalism that we joined earlier this year and that we documented over season one over the last month. Civil has been selling its crypto currency, the civil token. As you've just heard, it's been a very long month. Civil founders wanted to sell a minimum of eight million dollars worth of tokens to jump start their new platform for trustworthy journalism. Well, sale just wrapped up and we'll tell you what happened. We also have more of our exclusive explainer of how misinformation spread. Ads on Twitter from the knightfoundation because all of this, all of it, it's really about trust and information and how we find both and what can we believe in these days. It's up Assode two of season. Two of zigzag be right back. I am turning into a nut for not milks and grain milks who knew that there could be so many kinds almond sure, but also walnut Hazel nice owed and rice, elmhurst line of milks have up to four times more nuts per serving than other leading brands. The grain milks have twenty grams of whole grains per serving. All of their products are made with six ingredients or less. So no added gums or balsa fires shelf, stable packaging that could be delivered right to your home. All this creamy deliciousness comes from Henry Schwartz. The guy who owned New York City's last dairy plant, which was in his family since nineteen twenty five. But when Henry discovered, how yummy plant milks could be, he made a switch. It closed his famous dairy and started a milk company. Find your favorite alternative milk. Zigzag listeners can get twenty percent off their online purchase. Using the code. Zigzag at elmhurst nineteen twenty five dot com. The code is zigzag use it at elmhurst one, nine, two, five dot com. Okay. So we're going to get you the full update on civil later in the show, but because I respect that some of you are dying to know what happened. And the number one rule of journalism is that you don't bury the lead here is the headline the token sale failed. It did not reach its eight million dollar goal. It pulled in a little over one point, four million dollars and the majority of that was from consensus. The company that funded the project from the very beginning, not good. We've got the founder of civil here to talk through where things went wrong. And what happens next took best practices and we applied it to a whole new world which is consumer tokens, and people who've never about crept up before and it didn't work like in a pretty spectacular way, but don't fast forward because this first half of the show is pretty important. Okay. So we're exploring trust the season trust and information, and I want you to think like what happens in that split second when you decide to believe something or someone it could be a Facebook post or what your boss says happened in a meeting that you weren't invited to or even what your brain or your gut tells you when it says not to trust someone, you've just met. There's no good reason why you just don't trust them. That split second happens millions of times a day on Twitter speed is part of the charm right according to the company, three hundred and thirty five million people use the platform every month, and I am certainly one of those people. And it's weird like sometimes I am really into Twitter. I feel like I'm learning a lot of stuff, or I'm chatting with you, dear listeners or watching live events as they happen. It's pretty cool, but other times Twitter just makes me feel roasts. I'll get obsessive about responding to stuff re tweeting, liking dislike. Twitter wants me to time with my eyeballs is its business model after all, but that business model can backfire too because sometimes all the outrage and impulsive sometimes hateful stupid stuff on their makes me log out. I check my profile recently and it says that I joined Twitter in August two thousand nine. So nearly a decade that I've been doing this mental dance with Twitter, but last year, something changed for a lot of us because that's when we all realize that Twitter could do more than just mess with my head or your head. It could mess with all of our heads in a targeted way and on mass to the point where it could mess with democracy. For example, Oxford researchers found that in the weeks running up to the twenty sixteen presidential election, people in swing states some more false information on Twitter than voters. In other states, these small but very important number of swing voters were likely micro targeted and this summer, those same Oxford researchers told the Senate intelligence committee that the goal of those tweets was to put information out there that pure and simple would quote get groups of voters to confront each other angrily over social media and in the streets, like trying to inflame political and religious differences by tweeting about an alleged group called the United Muslims of America and another group called the army of Jesus tweeting about both of them and at the same time, like maybe they could get American Muslims and Christians to get off Twitter and go at each other. In real life. That was the hope anyway. It's lovely right. If you want to know more about who was tweeting that stuff, you can listen to the previous episode. We go into the sources of that information. There were also of course tweets that promoted or discredited senators and presidential candidates and discouraged people from voting by telling them that their polling station had moved or they just text their vote in us. Still can't do that by the way, at least not here in the United States. So do we know how many people saw the messages or how many voters were actually influenced by them? No, not conclusively. We would need the company's though social media companies themselves to share their data to really try to figure that out when Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey testified on Capitol Hill last month, he didn't get into specifics expecting any of this when we created Twitter over twelve years ago. Knowledge, the real world negative consequences of what happened and we take the full responsibility to fix it. So until those social media companies open up their black boxes of algorithms and data, we rely on smart researchers to do the sleuthing for us. So let's continue our deep dive into that new report from the knightfoundation. It's called disinformation fake news and influence campaigns on Twitter. Again, this report is one of the largest analyses ever done on how false news spread on Twitter during and after the twenty sixteen US presidential election. In the last episode, you heard how by mapping millions of tweets, researchers, Matt Hinde, men and Blad bearish found that the links in those tweets could be traced back to just a few dozen websites. The not so good news. All the bots tweeting out the disinflation on those sites were still tweeting away their publishing eleven or twelve tweets. A second. Over the course of this interview published thousands and thousands of tweets. This is Matt Hinde Mun. He's a George Washington associate professor. He has a new book called the internet trap. So now maybe you're wondering, okay, well, so what can we do? What can do, what can the government even do? There are a few things. Let's start with you and me what we can do. Simply knowing that there's a couple dozen sites that are responsible for a huge chunk of this problem. I think in some ways makes it easier to solve just calling out your friends when they linked to that set of sites, would likely make a big difference. Personally, I'm advocating for a slow Twitter movement. No more reflexive retweeting allowed. It could be possible. All right. So maybe a movement like that is not in Twitter interest. So what should the company realistically do? Here's the CEO Jack Dorsey again and what he told lawmakers he had achieved so far. We're not removing over two hundred percent more accounts for violating our policies where denting challenging eight to ten million suspicious accounts every week. And we're threading over half million accounts from logging and to Twitter every single day. The other thing Twitter could do just don't let that relatively small list of websites that regularly publish false news us Twitter period as we told you in the last episode until now, the traditional thinking has been that disinflation on social media is just a game of Wackle like there's no point in banning certain websites because other disinflation will just pop up in its place, but Vlad Barish that scientists at graphics and the other author of the night report thinks that what they found could change that thinking, one of the conclusions was if a particular fake news domain is taken down, denied a platform, that content takes a serious hit. That measure is -ffective. You may or may not think that banning news sites from Twitter is a good idea depending on your interpretation of the first amendment, at least here in the US, but taking down conspiracy news sites reduces the amount of disinflation people see just stating the obvious here. We also mentioned the pizza gate, hoax. In the last episode that story could mostly be traced back to the conspiracy website, the real strategy and the night researchers found that after Twitter and read it banned the real strategy from their platforms links to that site pretty much disappeared. Okay. So where's the government in all of this lawmakers have heard a lot of testimony, and there are some ideas floating around Capitol Hill like labeling dots or making companies band sites that explicitly promote violence. But unlike in Europe, no American lawmaker wants sweeping action because then they risk being accused of getting in the way of innovation. Honestly, I just think that going forward those folks on Capitol Hill really need more techies who can help lawmakers, anticipate how new technology affects society. Because right now, lawmakers are applying the old rules of human behavior to new tack that has us interacting on a vast exceleron scale. We have never seen before think a lot of people on the policy side. They just don't really know how this works. There's actually a very good Ted talk that's been around for a while by Duncan watts was an expert in my field that points out that doesn't really work with our understanding of common sense, common sense. Like the ways we behave as normal adults every single day in the real world. Here's a clip of that tedtalk by sociologists Duncan watts. I live in New York, and if someone is sort of. Stacked up against you in the subway on on a crowded train. It's unpleasant, but it's not a big deal. If the train is empty and somebody comes and stands right next to you, it's absolutely bizarre. There are so many rules that we follow without even knowing that we're following them, we don't need to think about it because that's what common sense does even for human commonsense developed over millions of years, and it's very good at dealing with the here. And now with like Armenia surroundings with us, or maybe a small number of people in our pack as it were. At work, but Twitter's operating on the level of global society and affecting millions of people and the same commonsense principles don't apply at that scale, these situations that involve thousands or millions or even hundreds of millions of people. And when we use commonsense to reason about these kinds of situations, it can mislead us. Unfortunately, it's on the consumer to take things a little bit slower and just take those five extra seconds to look at a tweet. If the tweets has an article, maybe Google that article real quick go to snow dot com. A lot of the big misinformation stories. Thank goodness. They're debunking stories for them on snaps dot com. And other fact checking sites and expose yourself to slightly different viewpoints. Not too far out, but a little bit different from what you're exposed to NC, how they're approaching an issue. Because a lot of these stories at lot of digital misinformation propaganda, they're not like born out of nowhere. They take existing issues of the day, sometimes exists specific stories, and they just come up with their own spin on it slightly stretching yourself is, I think, extremely, extremely important. It's this is going to be a weird analogy, but I do yoga, and by yoga practice, mega teachers are all about, you know, you wanna stretch yourself, but not too far because if you stretch yourself too far, obviously you get injured. But if you never start yourself at all, you just sort of like become more and more on crusted in than you can't move at all. So it same kind of gentle information. Stretching, I think is very useful for our minds as you know, exercises useful for bodies. It's hard to be a person in the world. Isn't it these days as yeah, absolutely. It turns out there's no free lunch. No free lunch friends, and maybe you're thinking, well, I'll just stop eating so to speak, who needs news, skip it, Sam Gill, the vice president for communities and impact at the knightfoundation really worries that we will give up on getting informed. What I'm worried about is that people just start writing off all kinds of information as they're just inundated with information that's hard to verify. And if we're already in a situation where trust in media is going down because people think it has a side, then I think we're highly vulnerable to people just saying, you know how with all of it and that I think that kind of tuning out is what we should be worried about. Sam describing you? Probably not because you're listening to this podcast, but confession I know he was describing me some days, but civil rights are not given. So we got a man and woman up. When it comes to information an informed society, we're not users where we're citizens and residents of communities in the country, and we need accurate relevant information to collectively make good decisions about where we want our society to go. Otherwise, as we've seen society has the potential to go off the rails, and that is the reality. By the way, Twitter is working with a group of academic researchers to measure something that they're calling conversational health. They're studying how groups form based on political views, and if getting exposed to more diverse views can decrease prejudice and discrimination sounds pretty worthy and very cool. Twitter also recently announced a plan to prohibit what they call dehumanizing language on the platform. We will keep watching both of those interesting developments and we will link to them on our website and in our newsletter that zigzag pod dot com. We will also, of course link to that night report. It is worth looking at in full reading the whole thing. They're also beautiful maps who do tweets could be made into such gorgeous maps again, zigzag pod dot com. Okay. After the break the latest on civil blockchain journalism and a token sale countdown strange times we live in folks. I'll be right back with Jen and civil CEO. Hiring used to be hard multiple sites, stacks of resumes, confusing review process. But today hiring can be easy, and you only have to go to one place to get it done. ZipRecruiter dot com. Slash zigzag. ZipRecruiter send your job to over one hundred of the web's leading job boards, but they don't stop there with their powerful matching technology. ZipRecruiter scans, thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience and invite them to apply to your job. And as the applications come in, ZipRecruiter analyzes each one and spotlights top candidates. So you never miss a great match with results like that. 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Use the promo code zigzag for twenty five percent off your first month of personalized care of vitamins. That's take care of dot com promo code zigzag. Zigzag is supported by first Republic Bank. At first Republic, your personal banker is like a friend. That's why they're title is personal banker because they genuinely care about you and your financial future. When you open a new checking account by your first home and start planning for retirement, your first Republic personal banker will be there helping you through it all to connect with the banker, who cares about you and your finances? Like a friend visit first Republic dot com. Today member FDIC equal housing lender. Okay. So here is that up date on civil despite lots of optimism, NF air bit of public support, the civil team failed to reach. It's eight million dollar goal. Sure. People were into the idea of creating a new kind of platform for journalism away, two free news publishers from having to chase advertising dollars that were mostly going to Google and Facebook anyway, and a way to make sure in theory, the information readers got was trustworthy and solid who wouldn't want that in this day and age. But as the founders learned, it's easy to support an idea until it requires putting down real money. Civil, got a lot of press, but in the end, it failed to convince enough people that blockchain and crypto economics, where the answer to journalism HS problems. Here was the situation at civil headquarters at the stroke of midnight. When the token sale shutdown I went to visit. He. How are you feeling. If you bought tokens, they are being refunded and civil says, it's not dead yet. Meanwhile consensus. The blockchain company that I put money into civil has committed another three point, five million dollars to the nonprofit arm of the project. This money will be used to make more grants to journalists the day. After the token sale ended Jen and I sat down with Matthew Eyles the guy who came up with the idea for the whole thing. It had been a rough, twenty four hours. I think the last twenty four hours have been much like the last four weeks which has been sleepless a mix of excitement, and enthusiasm, and progress, and learning, and disappointment and frustration. But I think specifically to last night, I think it was actually quite relieving the team and the project in the community has been so focused on a number and date and more specific. That's not even accurate. We've been focused on people and we've been focused on getting people through the steps necessary to support us those who wanted to support us and they were many, but I think it feels like a tough chapter. But one that we've closed today, I woke up surprisingly refreshed actually, and with with a new outlook, we have thrown a bit of a monkey off our back and are now able to regroup and push forward. So. Today, I'm feeling quite confident more confident in fact than I ever have in the project that we are going to learn from what we've experienced over the last few weeks and prior to that to make sure that we keep pressing for with our mission. So nothing's gonna stop us from from accomplishing that. So we have a publishing tool and much of the like much of the product is complete, but to do sort of civils version of this, it hangs on the notion of the constitution, a community operated governance mechanism. And for that, we need to get out into the world and we miscalculated how to do that. That part in the perception of the public has failed essentially that you didn't hit the eight million eight million dollars would have been sort of the tipping point where you felt that you could get that part of the civil experiment going the the sort of voting mechanism, the governance and all the rest of it, right. I mean, in retrospect we made bad decisions. We don't need eight million dollars in order to keep the project going. I think Vivian Schiller in the civil foundation would be able to help a lot of good for the world with eight million dollars or more. And so it was a goal that we set traditionally the way the token sales meant to work is to ensure that you not only distribute tokens to as many mission line people as possible. But then there's a fair market value determined. So we said we were going to sell thirty four million tokens. If we had not set a soft cap, for example, and one person showed up with a hundred dollars than we ran the risk of distributing thirty four million tokens to one person for a hundred dollars. So that's, you know, the, it's difficult to explain those things. It's looks like civil needs, eight million dollars or else. But in fact, we needed to make sure that there was going to be a large enough community here for us to distribute thirty four million tokens into the world. So we made, we made, we took, frankly, we took a playbook which mentally as from space that is to nascent to have best practices. But that's essentially what is best practices. And we applied it to a whole new world which is consumer tokens and people who've never about crypt up before. And it didn't work like in a pretty spectacular way and, and that's okay. But we also had three thousand people basically show up and want us to give us their, you know the the fact that so many people win through forty four steps. The famous forty, four steps to give us ten dollars, I think is sometimes like one of the most heartening things that keeps me motivated. Can you clarify? I think some people are going to be confused by you saying that you didn't need the eight million dollars. Can you clarify why you didn't need that money? Why? It wasn't about the money as you said. I mean, certainly. So to be clear, there's there's need and there's want. There are plenty of projects newsrooms that have approached us perspective newsrooms that have approached us, especially as people came to understand that we were giving grants out to some of our firstly newsrooms that asked whether there was more cash grants going around. And if we had it, we would have said yes and not just because we're bleeding heart, you know, for for journalism because they were important projects like yours. We felt like if we could do at least eight million dollars, we could be an instant instantly. Foundation would be one of the most impactful foundations for journalism around the world. So it was an ambitious goal, but it was a want need is a different matter. So need is paying for the rest of our staff is of course, continuing the grants we've committed to. And on that score we are fine. We have a commitment from consensus who's our our sole investor in and the civil media portion. So separate from the nonprofit foundation part. Yup. So the foundation. And what this whole process was all supposed to sorta do was accelerate the spinning out if you will of foundation. So it's already is owned organization, but it's not yet the five, a one c three is still pending. That's a process that takes time. So had this sale been successful, it would have been faster to that outcome. So we're disappointed by that because it means that our impact on the world's gonna just take a little bit longer, but fundamentally the ability for us to continue the project, the ability for us to continue to bring our community with us has simply been delayed. It's not been put at risk. What you're saying though, is that the civil media part that really doesn't hinge on the token at all you guys are continuing to build the tack that is part of that that cracked? Yeah. I mean, the only thing that hinges on anything is we took a black guy with a failed token sale, and we need to come back out into the market and demonstrate that this is actually something that people can use. This is actually something that can work. So we still have that to prove, but in terms of like financially being viable? Yeah, we're fine. Can you tell us about like, who are the backers of civil media where that money is coming from? Yes. Consensus is our sole investor in our pastor. Correct. Okay. And they are continuing to commit to civil media. So consensus and civil went into this token sale linked arm to arm and knowing full well, the risks that we were taking going into it. We worked on the token sales structure, eight million twenty four million together. We're strong partners, and we recognize that we're trying to do something both profound and profoundly new. This is a ten year twenty year vision amongst the both of us and we're still at the beginning. Can you share with us? What happens now? Not specifically, which is to say. We are going to sell tokens. We are going to continue. We still believe in tokens. We still believe in our token design, we are just going to forget a different way to administer them to the public. We, I can promise you. We are not going to do anything that looks like the last token sale. So we're not gonna do for weeks or else. We're not gonna do if we don't hit this or else it's going to be something that in the space is often referred to as a continuous model, continuous selling model, which looks a lot more like a sort of traditional retail experience where we're gonna make a product available to sell, and it will sell until we run out. So we have thirty four million tokens. So we've committed to the general public that hasn't changed. We'll just sell them on a much more continuous fashion with no deadlines or or sort of soft caps necessary. Gentleman sitting next to me quietly and I think she's doing some writing down her thoughts actually. Can you jump in like, what do you think of? I don't completely understand. Actually, I don't think that you want you. You can't understand that because I'm not providing enough information understand it. The details of what the specific plans are forthcoming. What I really, really want you and your listeners to take away is. Civil has been. I think, you know, I would like to give us high marks for being clear about our mission. We have not been clear whatsoever on how to execute some of the aspects of our product fission. So I'd prefer the opportunity to to to do that on this next step. We intend to be quite clear on what this model is gonna look like before I tried to respond to sort of, I don't get it except because I'm trying to give you guys a bit of a heads up away we're going, which is it's not gonna look like the last thing we did. There's a different way that we're gonna go. I promise you and your listeners in the world that we are going to take great care in how we explain it in and we learn. We've learned that we need to be far better at how we explain how we move forward and we will. I'm just not prepared to do that right now. So will you just be clear? Will you aim for this to be a consumer base token still? Of course. What do you think. Needs to happen in order for consumers to understand in the future, how to participate in this system. And can you describe you describe something like a a a shop model? Is that what you said? But again, so there's there's a couple of different points in your question. So one we need to do better job of communicating the value proposition, round token before you even come to a web experience to do anything, right? We need to do better job. Explain why someone would want to give their money to this. So that's number one. We're gonna do better job of that number two, we need to make the actual user experience that people go through far better and what an a huge thing that I also can promise is you're just gonna come to one website like we're not. We're not gonna pass you off to all these different projects. All these different brands you've never heard of before all these different things. We're gonna make an end to end experience. It's much cleaner, much simpler, actually fell up on that. Can you all just note what seems to be pretty clear mistakes in the process of both. Planning, but also creating user experience for consumers to buy this. You know, it's a challenging thing that we're doing right because. Crypto currencies are operating in this grey regulatory space, and I was initially drawn to this technology because of its capacity to energize, decentralized community to capture value among the participants as opposed to having it go to some corporate entity like Facebook or Google. That's what I was drawn to about crypto currency, not it's speculative behavior, not it's, but that you can actually one of my favorite quotes about it is to inject a business model into open source. So that's what we were drawn to. Now the way that the spaces matured is that a lot of the initial sort of froth and and everything that was going on was highly speculative and required the SEC to make at the moment, still limited judgments on what's acceptable and what's not acceptable. And so we're navigating a gray space and trying to do everything that we can't be as responsible as we can. So we need to KYC people. Okay. So what does that meal you customer know your customer anti-money-laundering? So we need to make sure that literally that terrorists aren't spending money into a token sales, they can wash their money in essentially distribute it somewhere else without banks being able to trace it. Okay. So what does that mean? You have to upload your passport and you have to prove your identity and and that's scary to the average person who is completely aware of data hacking and things like that. But it's something we have to do this quiz the same told people more like this. This was a legal requirement like I wish I wish we did, but I wish that it had been like more clear like, yes, this sucks. We see you customer, it sucks, but here's why we're doing it. So that will be we're very excited just on the way over here. We're talking about what we're currently calling civil learn, which is which is going to be our way of on boarding people. So getting to your point rather than a quiz, what we need to do instead is say, hey. You're going to in order to participate in this new frontier for journalism, we need you to be in possession of a part of its economy and part of his voting power and to do that, you're going to need some tools along the way that I also wanna note that this is all related to a sense of trust blockchain and our listeners, and you're the consumers, you were trying to attract there were all sorts of questions just a week ago about whether Wales we're gonna come in and save this token sale, and that conversation was happening in public. So I just wanna know the rollercoaster emotional roller coaster that everyone has been through whether it's newsroom officers or you is or listeners where the consumer. I think that's that's part of this question of of trust and transparency, and then how you move on from a pretty big failure, but move on most startups, screw up their first something very few do it on a stage as big as this. I think that one of the hallmarks of civil. All I would hope people agree is our the public nature with which we've chosen to conduct ourselves and that includes sharing the warts and all with people. And so it's painful when we fail and people can draw conclusions about whether it's not gonna work or the weather we can be trusted. And the trust I think is obviously something you can lose rapidly. But I think ultimately trust is built on consistent behavior. I think are consistent behavior has been that of being earnest and thorough about what we believe to be. About to happen. About what we believed to be the best course for us in our community, and we're going to get some of those things. Right? We're going to some of those things wrong. I think that we've also been quite clear about the risks involved in about the about the. The unknowns involved. So I can certainly promise you. This won't be the last time that a tactical mistake happens. Some I mean bound to with with what we're doing here, we, we are going to have to bump into walls to figure out the right way forward. And you know, all we can do is continue to try to demonstrate transparency and compassion, frankly, for our users for our community. And and if and if we lose people along the way that will be hurtful and painful, but understandable. But all we're going to have to do is just continued to come out day in day out making this thing better. So I don't expect to win back hearts and minds overnight. But all we can do is really just keep our nose to the grindstone. In addition to what's been happening with you guys building several and all the rest of it. There's what's been happening with crypto generally. The number of bitcoin transactions happening every single day have dropped precipitously in the last year. There's also been one point, five billion dollars worth of crypto currency stolen. In the past two years. According to McAfee, there seems to be some would say a correction happening. Others would say that the reckoning has come for crypto in that it was bullshit to begin with. That silly there was also dot com crash. When people said the internet wasn't going to be a big deal. I think I think calling anything reckoning is a really great way for skeptics to feel good about themselves for a short amount of time. It's not really constructive to anything as far as I'm concerned, none of that matters to us. The civil token has every end this'll project has every means by which to be successful regardless of whether or not people are transacting with bitcoin. The only macro number that would really start to worry me is of less developers moving into the into the space. I think I wanna follow on everything you guys just said, including the stats that you just noted and just ask why you guys don't think any way oils or maybe one whale bought in this token sale in what that means for the space in what does it reflect on the dip in this market? So there were really like to. On big buyers that we were trying to target. So big buyers from who are who are more, let's call them sort of philanthropist, journalism, foundation types civic minded, folks who who have never necessarily thought who who would give to the civil, finish an instant if it didn't necessarily mean crippled. And then the other are sort of crypto investors, crypto buyers who are looking to back projects that have an opportunity to be successful over the long term. And we went into the sale, believing that we had commitments from both on the journalism side of things was started to happen was the regulatory uncertainty and the just the newness of all of this was too much. Can I just give my money to Vivian Schiller was wasn't question that we got. Well, yes, we love you too, but we still need to get to this eight million dollar Mark that we've said, and we would by the way you person who loves to give a lot of money to journalism, we would like you to voting power in the system because you're actually the kind of person that we want. But we got in time. We started to get more and more cold feet around like, well, logistically how this goes. Let's I'd like to see it out in the wild before I make this significant of a commitment, then the sort of crypto buyers. Boy, did we launch into one of the most challenging markets? Right? So these folks are ones who are going to convert their ether or maybe bitcoin into civil tokens. And most people who have a lot of money in the space are har- either underwater or are at much lower values than they were earlier this year. So they had to make the calculation looking at our project as much as they might want to support it as well. The way that the framework is here is that because this this in-network transfer ability thing for a year, the likelihood of of a traditional ICO pop has been designed out of it deliberately as we've been saying, we deliberately trying to keep speculators out. But nevertheless, people who are used to putting in big sums of money into projects are not necessarily purely speculating, but they are wondering what's going to happen to my money. And that's when we were really grappling with whether or not we actually wanted these things. We were worried it was going to even undermine. Fine or or make small, the role that all the consumers that we now had gained would actually play as there would be. He didn't want their money. Then at the end of the day, became a very challenging thing. We didn't wanna fail and we certainly would love money in the. I mean, like, I'm channeling. Vivian show take the money, but I think it would have had some serious trade-offs the as as the only path to success materialized that we were going to have to have a small number of people who we wouldn't otherwise necessarily count as sort of mission aligned. Their mission align to the notion of decentralisation disrupting the status quo. But I think that the the it became it by the way I, we didn't turn anything way, but wondering. Well. I'm we not by that specific point, but I did mention I was really this morning. I mean, I think that that the structure of the sale was wrong period, so it was it was bad for consumers. It was bad for peop- for journalism foundation types. It was bad for it was it was. It was the perfect storm of working perfectly, which was it was a consumer token that consumers couldn't figure out how to buy. And it was a consumer token that made big money kept the kept them out. And so we we, we started from a legal framework in designed backwards, and that was that was I think necessary ultimately show what you just said. Yeah. So it was necessary, but it resulted in in in working too. Well. But again, it wouldn't even be a good proof of concept of TR's did it that way. Even if it may have saved face because we hit a million dollars. So by the way, just to be super explicit. If there was enough money, there was money that wanted to come into this. We were taking it. We did not turn anybody away, but it was designed. It was a flawed design. Next week more about the lows and highs of entrepreneurship? This word subscribe is very confusing. The people you can subscribe to our newsletter which is free and you can do that at the bottom of our home page at zigzag pod dot com. That is also where you can find the night report that we've been talking about. But also if you're new to podcasting, subscribe to the podcast in the app that you're listening on, because that way the episode magically appears every Thursday if you prefer to listen on our website, totally fine. Again, zigzag pod dot com. What do you think about our second season so far? We would really love to know please tell us your thoughts, your worries, or give us your encouragement, love that to send an Email or a voice memo to zigzag at stable g. dot. This episode was made possible with support from the knightfoundation. It was produced by me and Jen. Poignant David, Herman is our audio engineer and composer many. Thanks to our other audio engineer Dan Zula, and we want to welcome someone to our team. Thawing Beatty is going to be a producer with us starting in November. We are so happy. She's going to be here. Her background is perfect. We will fill you in on why she's the right person for staple g more about that next week about growing the team and our joys and concerns around that to zigzag comes from stable genius productions in partnership with civil. We are proud members of radio, Toby from PR ex. I'm new summer ODI. Thank you so much for listening. It is quarter midnight. I am leaving comfy house and lice, leaping family walk the blocker so simple headquarters, Jesus. Embarrassing. One person car wash too. Hey, everybody, it's Menashe and we've got another radio Topi show that we think you might enjoy. It's called the truth. These are beautifully produced in theology of short scripted stories, so fiction, their latest is a four part serial called the off season. It's a thriller that takes place against the backdrop of the metoo movement. And here's a spicy clip, cover your children's ears. Hi, you're earlier. How hard was. Question read, it has reaching this level of success been difficult. Of course. I mean, this this feels a career is I'm sorry, that question's not for you. This question is for Bruce for me when you try to your former co host in your dressing room. Subscribe to the truce wherever you get your podcast or go to the truth podcast dot com. Radio. Ex-.

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The Middle East - Stories from the field

"Global Leadership with Greg Parry"

44:33 min | 11 months ago

The Middle East - Stories from the field

"Hi Greg Perry Continuing Moi discussion about global leadership in particular focused at the moment on stories from the field. My last cast talked to that about Asia in particular China were spent a lot of time. But the other place that I've spent a great deal of. Tom Is the Middle East. We continue to work on projects in the Middle East and it was my first Location when I left Australia to to working. Dubai explore these topics of differences in culture in the Middle East. And as always my podcasts are unedited unscripted speaking straight from the heart and the head trying to stay very real and natural so that you can develop a better understanding about global leadership through this this medium. We all know that culture really is a shared set of Belief systems traditions shape through history. They shape our religion language on nationality and background as many many factors that contribute to it. I think the thing we need to understand about the Middle East when I coined this phrase Middle East. I'm referring to a very wide region of diversity. There's approximately twenty different countries across the Middle. East and many different religions represented there the foundation and the beginnings of religions very much came from the Middle East. Be It Christianity Judaism Islam. All these religions all began in the Middle East and continued to prosper in the Middle East. So we need to remember that. It's very dot this region. That has a very rich and complex background. All of these religions tend to be Monotheistic in other words they tend to believe that there is just one God and remember that all of these religions in many respects Have CROSSED OVER. They use texts from early groups of people. Their history is very much developed so they share many similarities in terms of their rules and beliefs. A many people would say well That's not my perception. People tend to hit Religions against each other but the truth is there's a lot of Velappan similarity based on historical context in terms of the Middle East cultures One of the things. That's very similar to In Middle East to to China and Asia's that is the concept of face. Spoke them a loss podcast about facing Asia. Well though people tend to think about face being focused more on Asia. It's very much important in the Middle East as well Is Very important people from the Middle East to be treated with dignity and respect and ideally? You know it's important to enhance the reputation of others and be cautious about looking off people's reputation. This is something very important in face. People are going to be very cautious to avoid shame When someone else knows that they've done something wrong. They'll be very reluctant to accept blame for it. Or or they'll be insolvent and certainly as someone that's worked in education leadership a school principal. I've seen this a lot with. Children will tend to avoid taking responsibility or blind which in Western cultures considered very rude and inappropriate and lacks courage integrity but this certainly relates this concept of face where children are already learning from nearly age to avoid this sense of shame. Religion plays a very large part of the rhythm of of daily life in the middle. East certainly Daily Practices weekly practices throughout the air all organized around religion. They're organized around prayer and study. The end of the week is often determined by the special holiday most commonly being Friday In Islam and of course Sunday in Christianity shops in different neighborhoods. We're GONNA have different times for for closing down on in in in Muslim environments in particular will be fraud is as I said because that's the holy die Saturdays tend to be the the holy die full for Jewish people and Sid Sundays for Christian Christian dive rest and I was thinking about this and compare it to mind culture as an Australian and low things have changed. I'm fifty years old and over my lifetime. Things have changed a lot certainly when I was younger shops where I grew up whenever open on Sunday and although I didn't at the time connected directly to BIA deeply religious tradition very much stemmed from that and even still today and not all shops on Sunday in Lod cities they might be but in regional areas. They less likely to be open and staff who work on a Sunday tend to get extra pice this concept of religion organizing laws historically permeates all coaches in the Middle East is very much an awareness of God or in Arabic the would Allah It's certainly used a lot in Arabic expressions through daily lives for example when people expressing Positively about a future they might say they would and Shala meaning God willing. So I've a a conversation might end by saying to see you soon and shout God willing. This would be a common expression so the concept of Autumn Religion. Very much permeates Communication and traditions and the and the wild life family is also very important. Part of the culture of Middle East as it is in Asia It's the families are very close. Very extended It's even even in the way that Arabic Woods On a People being the son of the father of And this certainly permeates the languages well. People tend to be defined by who they are the son of the father off. And it's really that signifies the significance a family in the in their life. The families are very much extended and I described him a previous podcast. How Western tradition. We tend to out family. We were we love our families very connected to them but we tend to look for independence when a new family is created. It's about being independent. But that extension across cousins grandparents second cousins third cousins etc cousins in law and Nephews. Nieces is even stronger in Middle Eastern culture as it is Asian culture. Compared to the West people tend to leave. We'll spend a lot more time together and that connection is very very strong. We tend to think about The Middle Eastern the Arab world has been particularly conservative. And yes it is and I don't want to talk to examples where Certainly it is a very conservative. But we need to remember as well that Dodge City the referred to earlier One of my favorite companies in the world is Turkey and I remember fondly reading and understanding about added took from Turkey. Remember took was the the leader who Who I change the country of Turkey to separate church and state. He was one of the first people and leaders and the first country to introduce the rights of women to vote He remove religion from schools. He's separated religion from schools. He was a personal and encouraged on a broader range of fashion Addressed by both men and women so very very forward thinking and very dynamic in the way that he changed a Middle Eastern country that was previously very conservative. I mean today if you visit Turkey. You'll you'll find that it's very European. It's much more liberal in people's behaviors. You'll see people wearing jeans and t shirts and and locking current movie stars and singers Modern movies people walking down the street looking very European or American install and wearing less traditional dress. Now many people wear traditional dress there. Of course but certainly it's. It's much more Mixed and liberal than traditionally conservative Middle Eastern countries. So that's an important thing to remember when we also think about our countries mainly we consider the history of our countries. Women have always had our right to vote. In countries other women have always been treated equally and my fiance women still not treated equally in Australia. Us You kind of the places as well so it's interesting when you reflect on the comparisons and differences and let's put aside stereotypes of the extreme groups within each of our communities and think about just the reality and and having spent a lot of time in the Middle East and Asia and of course my home country Australia and my wife's country the US there are significant differences but in particular these when you reflect on gender and and some of these more conservative things. You'd be surprised how similar some about behaviors can be in pockets on pots of countries. I'm in Middle Eastern people. Of course I'm more generally conservative to be fair I would describe them as more traditional and conservative than than the mind country of course They have lots of customs that are incredibly important to them and beliefs and traditions. That held the hot You'll see behind. Is that look unusual? Through our is very very different. For example Arab people will tend to kiss the hands of their elderly Tend to to certainly be submissive to them and and if something goes wrong very apologetic in sprint expression expressing. Thank you and and and support for people said family's very much the center of everything And in the more conservative families certainly the father must have the less have the loss would so very patriarchal But certainly that family connection is very important When when someone says the would father and monoculture understand what they're referring to in Middle Eastern culture. It's very much with a deep voice. It's the sense of sense of honor and difference and Saint Mother as well. The whole tone of that would tends to conjure different feelings to me so that that is very much more central. And it's not that we love our families mothers and Fathers Colts route as well. But there's just a different sense of its of its place in the world. The we've you've probably heard about the concept of honor in the Middle East and it's very important amongst Arabs an oral B. Protected and defended. It'll cost this. This concept of honor is very very powerful and important to Middle Eastern people of already referred to of respect about shame. And this connects to that concept of you would avoid Shaima. Dole costs you. Insults and criticism are taking very seriously concept of honor is very important to the family. You would not dishonor your family. Your brothers your sisters your mother and father. Certainly this is very different to our culture where we love and respect parents but this this deep trusted honor and respect for family nine is much more much deeper and more powerful in the Middle Eastern Cultures. Time is very much less rigid approach to. Tom Is far more relaxed and slower than than in Western cultures. Certainly myself personally. Tom's a very big deal to me. If I have an appointment at ten o'clock that means that I'm going to be there at five minutes detained. I'M GONNA walk in at ten o'clock we'll just before it's very important to me to be on time at to me. It's it's something that's it's about respect and getting things done and wasting other people's time certainly Tom in Middle Eastern culture is very much more relaxed more. Open the meeting what you know they might unorganized time but it will be far will flexible. How long that meeting new go for Helen? We will meet for coffee. It might be for a number of hours or more extended talks this concept of Tom. Frost as a Western is very synchronous. Synchronous stick But certainly Middle East culture. It's multiple hold is are incredibly important to Middle Eastern people as well and then my last podcast talked about Chinese New Year being very important to Chinese people but holidays equally so in Middle Eastern culture in particular related to religion and again all most of our holidays into stryer in the US UK Kinda related to religion as well but the connection in Middle Ages. Five DEEPA very very important so they take them very seriously at the holiday. That of course comes to mind. Is Ramadan rub it on being the the the month where it's particularly holy month and its way people fast and by fasting? I mean not eighteen and not drinking water of any kind during daylight hours and it's taken very very seriously. There's no set rules exactly when a child might begin. Missed but certainly some. Some children started Early than others but I remember seeing how seriously teenagers took it when I was principal of a school in Dubai where young teenagers were participating in sporting events training in sporting events and they would they would go to an early morning practice at eight or nine o'clock in the morning out the hot sun now. Ramadan appears in Middle East in the middle of a really still a very hard time of the year. I particularly hot time in the the summer. Can we forty forty five degrees and higher? Even fifty degrees temperature and I've seen teenagers participating in sports training outdoors like soccer football and not drinking water and then continuing their day studying Completing the duties of the day and then not eating or drinking until the sun goes down in the evening when they celebrate the if top fast. That's an incredibly powerful commitment to see a teenager. Commit to something like that. I kind of think of things that are western restraining teenager would commit so so much to as I've seen Muslim teenagers in the Middle East commit to Ramadan traditions. Because teens aren't perfect sometimes. They might make mistakes when followed but the committee's incredibly powerful and something that I will though it's not my religion credit i. I admire their commitment to that belief and knowing that tradition the tradition that when the feast is when the the fastest broken in the feces talk. It's a very very special meal and it's lodge meal. It's incredibly amount of food. Provided and families get together and not only that they bring members of the community as well and this thing. I've always enjoyed in the Middle East that as a Christian I'm invited to celebrate in Muslim festivals and vice versa. To be honest I've really appreciated this. Extension of family goes beyond just blood vague tint you tend to feel like you are a member of the family during Ramadan It's a very very special time and to be honest as someone who's traveled to nearly sixty countries of the world. It's one of the traditions that I've always enjoyed most. I I speak very funny of the tough feasts and during Ramadan period how welcome I have felt it. Certainly. Also very charitable time. I've I've seen people go to great lengths to deny money and time and support to others less fortunate themselves. I've seen children worked very hard to raise money for charities and give the money to special people during that time so it's very very special and very powerful thing to remember though about the Middle East as well as it's been in a state of flux forever century there's been many many changes in the Middle East. Think about I that didn't exist. Maybe fifty sixty years ago and now is is an incredibly powerful and influential city in the world. There's been searching for new direction by people in the Middle East. You know in terms of their economic platforms no longer reliant as much oil and gas funding otherwise reaching out to the West and building partnerships with other countries so certainly been Big changes has been many wars and political upheavals as well Rabble forces competing for the future of the Middle East. So there's been a lot of tension so that's another thing to consider in terms of understanding Arab culture the diversity the tensions that exist between different people across the Middle East and the West is well. One thing's voice found phenomenal about a place like Dubai is that. I'm not sure if this statistic is still the same. But was the fact that eighty percent of the population were expatriates so any twenty percent of the people who are actually Emirati. I was found that fascinating to consider. The country was in many ways being operated and led by people that were actually from the US from from foreigners. Now of course. The country is led and controlled and managed by local people. But what I'm saying is that there's a lot of professional skills that has been brought in to make the successful so this creates an interesting dynamic in terms of skill set and making things happen a in an environment such as that visit obvious tension and debris is a good example. Where you see between modern and traditions. So he's an example like Dubai where eighty percent of the population are not from Dubai. But there's still ice strengthening holding onto the very important tradition. So wanting some of the skills and Trappings from the West but still maintaining these important traditions. And I see that tension to lock something that that's It's a feast balanced. That's maintained the thing that people need to understand about Islam as a religion in the Middle East is. It's not just a religion. It's also a place that they hang onto cultural identity and heritage so we might say that for the to the West as well but I would argue many traditions like Christmas. And what we do on Sundays Etcetera. Although we can historically refer back to religion as being organized as protagonist that we need to remember those things on is important to accent anymore. We think about them many people that think about them strongly. We're in the middle. East is still very central to them. So you need to connect the religion with the culture and the identity of these things are all very very closely connected but again remembering that the cultures and traditions vary markedly from country to country across the Middle East so similarities but differences in a lot of the things that I'm sharing here. I'm trying to identify the things that I'm most simul. Similar but they will be varying degrees of conservatism. Indifference across these different. Parts of the Middle East gender is another -nother topic worth considering when trying to understand the Middle East Because it is very very different and certainly in the Middle East as many other cultures. What's acceptable for mandatory might not always be acceptable for woman to do and a lot of these would be connected directly to religion One of the obvious examples is the coverage of of your head in some Muslim countries. The cover of woman's is is really important as as his main in some countries as well shaken a woman's hand will be considered offensive in many parts of the Middle East. But it's not in the West Outer Been Motte hold hands and what kiss each other ingredient which is very different to our culture and but certainly that wouldn't happen to main wouldn't kiss another woman necessarily in the Middle East and list I would connected as certainly not in public. These things are very very different and need to be unpacked understood. There's a lot of misunderstanding about the treatment of gender in In Middle Eastern countries they need to be understood in context and it needs to be understood that there is different. Wise men women treated across these different cultures some pots being more conservative than than others for sure. I mean certainly in a place like Dubai. I felt that women were respected. I felt that women had had rights. I felt that women could speak out so though there were many things that with the simul similar to the West but there are other parts the Middle East where women may not have the same opportunity to speak out an exercise Equality so please be aware of the diversity that you might help. You might see across the different cultures in terms of the way men and Women Act differently. Certainly I can tell many funny stories that I've when I first came across these situations. I was really surprised and I found unusual. I was the principal of a of an international school and I had dealt with a school fight with two boys had had a physical physical fought so I used follow the normal disciplinary procedures which were to suspend the students for a number of days. Give them a cool off period. It was part of the punishment and then when they came back. It's normal process to have a mediation and reconciliation between the two parties. So I spoke to each boy individually and we talked through what had happened and then brought the two boys together and by potty spoke and we resolve that as we realized that things were complete and once it was clear once we'd reach that pours at the end of this meeting conversation. It was clear that we conciliation had been achieved and we had a plan going forward. Both boys stood up held hands and kissed each other on the cheek. And I found this fascinating. It was first time I'd experienced this hadn't been in the Middle East for very long before. But can you imagine in Astray? America the UK for two teenage boys have a physical fight that drew blood and broken nose I'm in a few days lighter for them to stand hold each other's hands and kiss each other cheek something that I almost had a Tier Mall. Honest to see such deep concern reconsiliation. That had occurred but I mean certainly I would describe it ties. My call to being quite hydrophobic quite intolerant of men touching other men but this was such a beautiful thing to see and really appreciated and enjoyed it similarly our member meeting of student one or two years light Ehud graduated and he returned to the school and Anita student fairly. Well I think he might have been Valedictorian. One of the certainly the respect to students in the school and I'd had spent some time with him but he said Mr Perry mayor greet you in my traditional way and he held my hand and kissed me on on both cheeks as well and again I I still have a lump in my throat thinking about this now because I felt so respected that he was exercising his traditions and coulter towards me and how important was for him to announce it and then to do so Maybe feel really special again. There are certainly lots of differences between men and women in these cultures in more conservative environment. Certainly there are times when men and women will eat at different times and even different places there will be a place and the place for women and that that that's certainly not something that uncomfortable within my culture. It's something that respect is accepted and the norm in the pots and other cultures and other parts of the Middle East in Montana. Middle East. I I certainly found some peop- some Westerners really struggling with the different traditions and not accepting of them. And and very much describing some of these traditions a sexist and inappropriate and fully respect those people's point of view where again looking at things through on lands and deny that there might be some things that should change the Middle East in terms of traditions and cultures between men and women arguably I think the same thing exists in my own cultures as well. I certainly there are parts of Australia in the US. That I'm very familiar with where I wish for women to be treated differently as well to be treated better to be treated more equal so I think when you want when you want to understand gender difference. You need to in a not tom to to think about all the different characteristics of your own culture as well as the new culture you're visiting and judge them all from the right perspective certainly. I'm married to a very strong independent successful woman who has to navigate more obstacles in in in in these coaches than I do but arguably she's done so in her own American culture she wouldn't Australia too and hopefully things will continue to develop olek cults as it relates to women being treated more equally and having more opportunities to exercise their rights but to be honest the glasshouses certainly things need to change of environment. But Yeah I. I am surprised in some parts of the Middle East. How can soda things still can be? Certainly I've spoken to people who've explained to me that that were best friends with their cousins as a small child and they played together a small children but they reach this certain age and what that was but that would no longer allowed to play together as boys and girls so that separation certainly occurs at a set time and and this friend of mine reflected when he told the story he was afflicted on how strange he thought it was that will he could spend a lot of quality time with his female cousin when he was young. But there was a time when this was no longer. There are some conservative traditions. That still upheld but again this very very differences across cultural culture across different parts of the Middle East. I'm greetings are really big deal in the Middle East and suddenly when you meet someone for the first time if you meet someone again. The greeting is is very significant. Very warm very much. Appreciate you feel appreciated. It's a sign of care and respect when you greeted When you when they cite. Hello it's it's it's it's very warm and it's very connected and people really care about you. I must admit that every time I walked into ruin people have stood by Standard Data. And come over to you and demonstrate respect for you. There's not another place in the world that is as good in my opinion and hospitality as is the Middle East. Certainly in hotels and restaurants hospitality is incredible. This part of the culture certainly has shared across into the hospitality room There's been times that have been frustrated with the levels of service in other countries and cultures but rarely am I frustrated in the Middle East this concept of giving embiid hospitable very important to their culture. Customer Service is very very important. People want to be sure that you enjoy your time that you lied very very happy goodbyes and thank you almost check into be sure that you were satisfied by the service you received elderly always come. I certainly hope hospital environments. I'm you'll always make sure that the elderly person gets extra special treatment. They get greeted in a special way. They get served in a special white. So the the middle. There's a lot of Middle Eastern etiquette tips around supporting older people in the Middle East. People are very generous with their servings or offering. Certainly we've food excetera so certainly. I described the top face during Ramadan. There's lots of extra food lots of extra things being served. It's a sign that you really welcome in the person and you care about them by being pillow with we deal gift of food and hospitality coffee and tea and chocolate and biscuits and fruit and also to delicacies. Proactively Sir. What people don't even ask? Do you want it? It's just given to you the juices. The deitz everything is just very very it comes to faster than you can even imagine that generosity is very special to be honest one of the things you need to be careful about as if you might you might say to one of your Middle Eastern friends how much you might lock something. Be careful because the next day you might get it as a gift and it's a bit of a running joke in the Middle East. You have to be cautious about you. Know we compliment someone about what they wear what they have and and I've experienced many times that person as the next. I brought that to me as a gift wanting to please me given that I had. I was really taken aback by that. So it's something to Tom to stand there other traditions as well Such as you know show in the soles of your feet which is common in other cultures as well considered rude considered rude to do so. So whenever you're seeing please pay attention to today city if you'll engine about where the faces of you the bottom issues facing I contact is also Very interested in western countries. I contact tends to be a sign of confidence and attentiveness and we we are taught from young children to look at me when I'm speaking to you what to show. Us backed by looking at somebody's is also shows affection as well. It's very very important. We tend to assume that if someone looks away while we're talking to them that it's being disrespectful that the people are not interested in what we're having to say and that's not always the case in many Middle Eastern cultures suddenly in many Middle Eastern countries. Same gender miles to mouse females females contact tends to be more sustained and intense than in wet in the West But certainly the opposite sex that would not occur. They might be a brief glance Even a even a brief glance might be considered inappropriate so you tend to be walking down the street and of course it will tend to look the other way almost intentionally and almost demonstrating respect for you to look the other way. So that's That's something that really needs to be to be understood In this culture very conscious of hierarchy in avoiding contact is a sign of respect for the agenda and also for your your boss or for an older person It's quite common for children not to look at the adult who speaking to them. We're now called so that might be accepted. Please look at me while I'm speaking to. You would be common for a parent or a teacher or principal but in Middle Eastern culture. That wouldn't be the norm The children would normally be looking away as a show of respect. And so this is the same thing in the workplace in terms of employees as well. I'm Middle Eastern. People are also very invested in their community the very quick to try to build relationships the people around them and they really take care of family and I want to tell a quick story about a very special school project that I've been involved in I have a very close friend who decided to. He's from Palestine decided to set up a new international school in Palestine and it was very much a big giving back to his people and companies do very involved in that project to its policy now but will start again sometime in the near future and the generosity is something that I just continue to add more we think about Palestine as well and they will wabi projects. I Find Basham Austria very fine man bicycle tonight at a Billion Dollars Design. Money to rebuild a country boy invested his own money to help his country's this concept of community and getting back very very important in Middle East culture. I can give many many examples of people that that have done that this invest in our community near family's very important Middle Eastern people will do anything for their family their extended family or a friend who's become almost like a family member and I feel grateful that I feel like I'm a pot of an extended family of many people in Middle East and certainly the Palestinian project. Maybe you'll hit him. Say some more things about that in future podcast. But it's a project that he's very hot because of what it means to the people people in in the Middle East very much. A seeking a Western style with seem in contradiction to a more conservative view. Which would be to hold on to traditions. So certainly feel this. There's this constant maybe tensions the wrong word but people are wanting to have a western lifestyle but still maintains the Middle Eastern traditions. They see television. They see Hollywood. They see movie stars that what freedom of opportunity and choices expression they want to be creative. WanNa have opinions but then also maintain their their traditions as well. That wasn't nice clothes unless homes And you'll see in places like Dubai very much a fascination with the western brands in Western culture in the Shawnee objects All of that Shena often describes Dubai as Las Vegas without the gambling and heavy drinking. And that's that's that's fair the glitz Glamour in Dubai's very much I I see represents this fascination with luxury from the West Europe or America. And that's very much why it's shaping modern. Middle Eastern live is the fascination with celebrities. They really enjoy the music It's a key cultural influence. In many respects. You'll tend to hear Western music in many of the restaurants etc. Some of the downsides though is you'll also at times in the Middle East Here or understanding more subtle way is not overtly but in subtle ways negative perceptions about the West If he talked if you get to know Middle Eastern people and get and ask them about their perceptions of the west of America and Australia and the UK excetera again. I'M GONNA generalize and I apologize in advance for doing so but there is this belief that the West is applied that we're seeking out. Sorry the West is really on the interest in the Middle East because of its oil and because of the the resources that can be mad. There's a distrust of the West. They believe that although we in the west side at democracies about freedom that they may not necessarily see that as being genuine. They don't necessarily trust that. What we say will match what we do. So there is that sense of distrust then. I'm sure it relates to some of the wars. That have occurred in the past by feel that it's been unfair for the West to supported some of the different regimes in the region and maybe the suppression of Basic Human Rights in other countries. As well so I guess they see. There's a sense of hypocrisy in the West. In many respects inconsistency in the espouse values that we say we have best what we actually do and what our government might do. Obviously there's two sides to every story of war in history But this is this underlying current needs to be understood. I love the West. I Love America. Strayer UK excetera but they still this undercard of distrust and concern that you. Is it all for the right reasons and I think that's that's that's a fair assumption to for them to try to unpack and understand of Tolan they really You know if we think about the concept of of moral corruption as well they tend to think about the West is being wheeled we judge other countries but what we see so when the middle people in the Middle East see our culture through the eyes of Hollywood they're gonNa make assumptions and generalizations about what they see. They you know if we think about mainstream Western television and internet includes the Internet etcetera and television includes nudity and maybe Nia nudity on billboards etc Explicit discussions about sexuality and behaviors they perceive the West as being drinking too much too much consumption of alcohol and they concerned about what drunkenness can lead to Esa this moral judgment issued that often sits between the east and the West and from the West to the east to be fair. They based on on television moves at central. They make assumptions about the way women behave and men behave and think about it. I mean when we think about the way men and women are portrayed in moves etcetera. It's not true. These generalizations that media is making to try to create the timing. But that's certainly how people in the Middle East would perceive us to be but that's just the same way that in the West we grab onto the stereotypes of Muslim women as well. We might assume that almost women in the Middle East are oppressed. Almost women in the Middle East have no rights and and live in equitable lifestyle. On one hand. Middle East people assigned that women in the West. You know promiscuous because that's what happens in movies on the other hand the West. We think about covered women being oppressed and them being treated really badly and again. I'M NOT GONNA say that no other things that are true or false just sharing perceptions that need to be unpacking understood. If you're going to understand different cultures we have to sort of initially make some generalizations. Then try to unpack them but also understand that. This is not true of everybody. It's equally unfaithful both cultures for us to make these assumptions and it just needs to be unpacked understood. Drug use of also is interesting although alcohol is banned in in some countries of the Middle East. And it's not something that Middle Eastern people necessarily exercise in any way is not something that they're drawn to. It's just like drug use if you look at statistics. Drug use is not a big problem in the Middle East and letting might be some restrictions and access. The truth is you can access alcohol. Freely in most Middle Eastern countries ignored vice took on the media. That's not true. You is very accessible. And it's very easy to drink. Alcohol and participating. Weston behavior is in the Middle East but Middle. Eastern people are less drawn to it. Then they less drawn to drugs and alcohol as a source of changing the The feelings and emotions and physical state. That's not attracted to that if you think about Racism and and cultural. Do you know how we treat different? Cultures this is another thing that we need to think about that. I certainly felt at times in the Middle East that there was degrees of racism that people of different races would traded very differently Certainly South pice Kyle salary scouse trump. This was quite evident in a place like Dubai. Certainly many people have different countries of origin. Cultures RECEIVE DIFFERENT SALARIES. But the interesting dynamic is that remember. Eighty percent of Dubai is ex patriots so when they source work from different countries of the world they sourcing people from different economies. So if you see source somebody from India versus Australia. Those people come from different styles. They also I used to different currencies and money so a person who's sending money back to their family in India working aboard this strike sending money back to their family in Australia when they're working abroad. Different CURRENCIES DIFFERENT DIFFERENT. Different economies is very very different. So I'm not saying that I accept complete. The different payment scowls different cultures. Need to understand why this happens on. What the history of it is Wilson down to stand up in the Middle East. You know when people look at our coaches they at Tom. We do some things that they might perceive to be. Quite racist as well like These images in the media or of of police violence and of different treatment of African Americans and color. They see these things on television and perceive this to be generalization of countries as well so I guess what I'm trying to his challenge you to not judge things through you know living in a glass house to to understand that your own culture is not perfect either and so yes. Take a position about what you think is rod injust. But don't forget that Allen Colt involved. It's on perfect. Are that and both parties are making generalizations. That may or may not be you know. They're seeing television and history of the KKK the treatment of blacks and whites in countries. They're seeing examples of men and women being treated unfairly. They're seeing a world where women are not empowered not. Ceo's of large corporations as well as frequently as men are so these generalizations although maybe unjust and unfair A happening because of the message we portray through through through mass media. The Middle East is a fascinating country. But if I can repeat again that we need to remember that the Middle East is a diverse place. More than twenty different countries. There's many different cultures as well. We need to understand that the differences do connect in many ways to the history there are many deep connections to religion but we also need to not make generalizations about the extreme differences just as they were extreme negative behaviors that occur in our countries and cultures. Same things happen the Middle East as well a beautiful culture a beautiful region of the world and the place that I hope you enjoy doing business and you can exercise your leadership productive. Y Y as well.

Middle East West Dubai Australia principal US Asia UK tom Tom America BIA Asian culture Greg Perry China Daily Practices soccer Turkey fraud Dodge City
Stonewall

Queer as Fact

1:51:21 hr | 1 year ago

Stonewall

"Hello, and welcome to clear as fact, the cost bring you create history from around the world. Two at time. I'm alice. I'm Jason, I'm ally. And today in honor of the fiftieth anniversary, which came out the stonewall riots. Before we start, we have some content warnings from Steph site, obviously, there's absolutely is largely centered around police harassment and violence against people. It also brought a period, typical qualified yet and discrimination, including brief mentions of imprisonment and institutionalization. It also includes historical racism, sexism and causes them and Monday, transferring BIA, within and beyond the movement as well, as I mentioned of guns, sex work listless, and drug use this upside will also include swearing and the use of Quebec slows and quiets as well as out they language to describe queer identities. Both in court and when explaining the thinking and asked you at the time I also want night that using a mixture of she her, and he pronounce was very common amongst queer people in the nineteen sixties I've trained to use pronouns most commonly used for each individual cousin in primary sources that doesn't mean that the house they exclusively used. There's also means for the sake of consistency and decision that allure warfare into stormy Deloviye who I've previously referred to episode on her using. Then pronouns using share pronounce. Speaking of stormy, though, I'd also encourage you to check out, don't hurt as upside on Masha Johnson before listening to this episode of some background on these people. And also just Don quia life at the time with me, talking about, I'd also like to welcome Jason to the second ever history, episode of this podcast, gladdened back. Sometimes it's very hard to get us all in one room. And so we have Jason's that have Iranian today in terms of sources for this episode we have a wealth of ARL histories and written sources from people who were either connected with Stein, wool and eloquent of infants who actually present during the riots, I referred to plenty of days when I was researching, but it's also wasn't I knew that I realistically could not listen over eight. All of them so that they will say relied on second resources in particular historian, David Carter has a huge amount of work in terms of piecing leave accounts together and making a coherent picture. All what happened during the storm while right to our lied, quite heavily on his book, in terms of the sequence of events and stuff like that Martin Guberman has also written a book called stonewall, which does a similar thing drills unless Arnold history. So it was less rear in terms of trying to make them fit together. But similarly Britain's tomorrow histories together to explain strangle. So I'm going to stop with some background about the quia landscape and slowly queer political movements priest, I only have time for a pretty so, so explanation of this sometime. We'll do individual episodes on things like matching and the doors of us. But for now, we're going to do a brief summary of these early queer organizations in the USA. I've always said, the Mattachine society, not Madison and it's just called Madison. I've heard both okay show. I think it's officially called the medicines. But people don't necessarily things got slackened said medicine. Yeah. So he's speaking off Madison society. The medicine society was the USA's first nationwide Homa file society. That's the word that we're using the time rather than gay. So it was founded in nineteen fifty and Madison, largely catered to cease, white middle-class gaining it was specifically an organization for men so that kind of quivalent women's organization was the doors, Politis switches founded in nineteen fifty five it wasn't explicitly cease white middle organization. But that's what it was. So the mansion society was explicitly. That's why not. No, I meant national wasn't neither of them were neither of them. All right. But Mattis what I was finding was Madison, specifically catered to men and the doors politest specifically catered to women and they both did cater to the middle class out. They didn't have the what is middle class, but they didn't say that in it in their constitutions or whatever. So being out as a queer person in the fifties and sixties in the USA, was very, very risky. You could this job you could go to prison. You could be institutionalized and subject to arrive of nonconsensual medical treatments. Danny Garvan, who was discharged from the navy for homosexuality in hundred sixty seven that's another thing that could happen to you. If you were out or outed, he recalls that the idea of living along, happy life as an out, gay person just was completely foreign concept and something that he had no models for and no understanding that it even could happen. So he knew a lot of all the game in and he says most of them will living double lives, where they were married, but they also cruising all in matching or something in this was something that activists talked about. Turmeric centra, Harvey milk, even once it was sort of, like getting into like the eighties nineties, and it was comparatively debtor younger gay activists would try to exhort the older people community, like it's okay, you can come out now and they just wanted to be like, yeah. That possibility is past for us. This isn't relevant to Wella's. Yeah. Yeah. I got to be conflict that we will talk to on. We'll maybe talk valley debts, depending on how conversation goes is that conflict between people who had grown up situation, we're being out with an impossibility and people who had grown up all kind of come into their queer identity in a time when that was becoming what you did was out, for political reasons as well as personal reasons, medicine, we cause of this situation was berry, berry secretive. They always it with their blinds down. They didn't really advertise publicly a lot of people wouldn't use their real names in the society, or in society publications. When did they meet, I can't tell you exactly where they met eisenson secret? This is the F B. I know is I can't remember exactly where they met. I do know that at least once they were kicked out of their rooms by the landlord win. They did advertise publicly landlord realized that a gay society was majoring in his building and kick them out by, I don't know specifically weather it. I'll throw my. Edge Delic move around. So we'll do they have like this club? They did have a clubhouse or kind of office. Yeah. That's as much as I can tell you about that. So because of this whole situation, it was very difficult for them to kind of make themselves known. And even full queer people who want yet kind of involved, increase society with other people to even find out that these groups existed. So in nineteen sixty Madison membership was at two hundred and thirty members and the dose of the lettuce was at around one hundred. Okay. So reasonably small yet, and I think there will probably more people who are doing things like reading the news, let us on stuff like that bought in times of people who were members. It was very tiny. Sorry. Did you say where these organization, say Madison and the door to Blad is, what by founded on the west coast of the US. Now they did spread throughout the whole country. So also, they had like different chapters. Yes. They had Chester's. Yeah. Yeah. They had checked with so, yeah, imagine how to chapter in Washington and then chapter in New York. Yeah. The east coast. Chops. I'm aware of, but they'll probably, and same with the noticeable lettuce, and what they did what they talked about. These groups will also pretty conservative to allies. They largely deferred to the use of psychologists went on that kind of what is actually -ality was its place in society, which is largely you time. It's actually, as a mental illness in the same way that brought society did at that time. Randy, we who you might remember on Masha Johnson. I remember any Randy was a weird time. I rattled strangely about Randy. I think it was a mixed bag. Good. Good stop, and like, oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. He's going to be around more. So rally is a man, a gay man Europe in Texas. And he joined Madison New York around nineteen sixty and he recalls a member of the group saying Tim around this time. How can we expect the police to allow us to congregate? Let's face it, where criminals Yukon allow criminals to congregate. So there was a lot of internalized homophobia within these societies. And I was still fighting about whether they were criminals or whether they were sick and stuff like that amongst themselves before, they could even start talking about how we can interact with society. Yeah. That kind of internalize conservatism where you haven't questioned authority. Yes. So therefore, you're trying to reconcile holding queer identity with the fact that you don't want to rock the boat. I guess, in yet is a whole. Yeah. I think they'd more saying, we want to come together as gay people to have a community, but less sort of we wanna come together as gay people to fight for our rights. Yeah. It's worth mentioning that Madison was founded by Harry. Hey who was? A communist and quite a radical left wing person, and the society drifted conservative after its foundation, and he quit after about three years or something. 'cause up that so this situation is more complex than I'm going to be able to go into, but broadly speaking that were pretty conservative. So do they have goals as an organization or is it just provide a space for game intimate? They goals for more social than political. So it was nice lead us providing a space for people to make that did hold talks and things like that bought that talks will often. I will get a psychologist a medical professional to talk about sex valid, and that would mean that will be two of me about homosexuality is an illness, but it can be three therapy and stuff like that. So they get a medical professional to Trump's the group while they want medical professionals talk to society, like what to talk to the group. All that very bad. Yeah. On a couple of women who in the doors of belied us, who even mentioned that is often seem to be therapist, using it as a way to get clients. Yeah. So it's, it's pretty messed up. So this began to change bit in the mid sixties has been like Randy, who you also mentioned, and another man named Craig Rodwell joins them if you might remember Craig 'cause dated having a cry. Yeah. Specific FOX possible like pet names Craig. I think that's Joe you'll deal with the pet names. But yet Craig went out with Harvey milk before Harvey milk quiz, very radical, and you call credit craves. I'm degree with radicalizing Harvey milk, just to clean up. I have mentioned some names on the podcast. But that is not the full extent of pet names that Houston, his life user, very kind of go back. You can find out to clear hobbies name. Maybe and find hasn't pinton is used for Craig I'm even come across time. I read the actually. Yeah. While we giving you required listening might as well at the Hollywood. Yes, I think you should crazy. So when you introduced Craig in the hallway milk episode, and I'm going to retell the story idea of Craig. But this Craig nor. Do you wanna tell the story now? And so a Craig was once cruising in central talk. How old is Craig crate pretty young? I'd say late teens I can't remember the exact age Craig and with the quake communion with activism, very young Madison wouldn't even let him join us because he was under twenty one and he was really, really keen to get involved. But the rule said, for whatever reason you have to be over twenty one so Craig was cruising in central park as probably eighteen and a policeman came up to him and said move along. I think they said, move, along faggot in particular, and Craig is wanted. That's harassment of homosexuals, and was promptly handcuffed and locked up. I'm gonna tell them any similar stories that Craig gives you an idea Craig's on willingness to take what society was throwing him basically so Creggan. Randy both joined Madison around the at least mid sixties. I just so much Craig like it getting to midnight twenty and he'd be like. Boy, craig. Doc. You know, they wouldn't let him become a member before twenty on just kept showing up at their offices and being like right. I'll photocopy stuff. All right. I'll do whatever I can do so like this. He didn't let it stop. That's great crates great until Craig, Randy and a group of similar men started fighting basically for gave his ability. So in other thing, Craig did is he would write under his real name in the newsletter? Okay. Interesting. Yeah. Craig is just so gutsy Greg. So yeah, you really is sometimes go into this in depth. But they did a lot of work fighting against things like police entrapment of gay people so you could be arrested for solicitation full gays. Excellent. When I say gay in this context, gave me. I guess I mean queer people same gender attracted people. What anyway you could be arrested for solicitation and police would often be the ones to solicit. And then when you kind of went along with it, they arrest you, so an undercover cop would come up into a bar and say, oh, can I get you a drink can be very flirtatious? And if he said, yes, it arrest you, something like. So they fought against this. They also fought for the right of gay people or quit people to drink in public balls. Which is something we'll talk about more when we actually stopped talking about strain Randy appeared on radio and TV he was the first openly gay, man on TV in the USA as far as I'm aware, and Craig some times joined him in that I've all the need to convince the public that they were respectable permeation at what men like Randy, and Craig would doing so I focused on creating an image of game in as middle cloth. You know that always miss suits when they appeared in kind of activists capacity kind of not to them. And then appropriately masculine, all those kinds of things that's the image that we're trying to create. And this is why we ended up having mixed feelings about Randy washer episodes. I will often mentioned that I specifically mentioned rally on Craig, but there were a few the men who kind of fighting this thing five of them on the east coast in the USA. I've just singled them out. We're gonna talk about Craig, if that'd be in this episode, and I've singled out Randy, because we have some points from him about people doing themselves criminals. Because he was the first gay man to appear on TV and he was just one of the more important figures in this. Yes. So those kind of Representative of a faction yeah, yeah. The Representative of a group. So in the late nineteen sixties with the influence of the antiwar movement, and the civil rights movement, and kind of similar political movements, at the time, the idea of working within the system and making yourself appear respectable to appease, the establishment to, they might grant you some of your rights started to seem outdated so nine sixty nine Craig and some friends, start anew magazine called queen's quarterly, which wrote we have earned our place in society, and it must now learn its lesson, the way he had to stay and that I've always says, loud, and strong. So that's the kind of background on the que- movement op tonight in sixty nine in very, very brief summer. Now, let's talk about stonewall. So this is on Christopher street in Greenwich Village, which is under tourist quia pot of New York it began its life in nineteen thirty as Bonnie's stonewall. That's two words as opposed to one, okay? It was a tea room. Those was the prohibition era. So it may have been a Speakeasy and it was. And it was a team or. I don't know much Bassett beyond its name. And the fact that it was a tea room so making us options here. But I think that pretty well founded assumptions and the name the stonewall came from a lesbian, novel, which was released the same year. That opened we'll say called the stonewall. Oh, okay. So we had a queer. So it was probably a lesbian so Bonnie's lesbian, the lesbian, and it probably was a lesbian Baugh, in its beginnings of cool relations after that, both que-, okay and straight. So in the early sixties it was a straight restaurant that was used for things like wedding receptions, look, it was damaged in a fire and closed in the mid sixties, and it reopened in nine hundred sixty seven as the story will in which was a mafia Ron gave up. So am I kind of hinted at before and we're talk net Craig and Randy New York state law. Prohibited licensed venues from becoming disorderly, which basically included being quick. So it wasn't technically illegal to serve a drink to aqua person. But if you did that was grounds enough to say this places, disorderly, and we're gonna find it over by. His license. What? Yes, acquitted, people drinking was disorderly. Yes. Inherently, yeah. Yeah. Exactly pay like Craig in round. He did make some progress fighting against this, some of the time line in sixty nine Tim around quit people drinking was kind of our K, but queer, people, interacting and pretty much anyways. So any touching any hand holding any kissing any dancing was totally off limits. Danny Galvan again remembers being in an offensively Cuiaba where he was told do not look away from the bought sit in your chair facing the bar because if you turn around that could be considered solicitation, if you start looking at the patron, God, well, that would yak balls weightless phone. I wouldn't go to just go to the ball, sit of the bog at your drink like your in a new law. Try and find meaning at the bottom of the glass like nothing. That's what it was. Nothing. That's what it was like. So I'd like to imagine this kind of system like passing notes, Glenn dates. Yeah. Few things mentioned. And I think it was physically Antic light who will mention later on picked up Craig, so they couple while there were some things out cruising. And he says something like oh, you know, he tapped his foot and looked this way. And then they'll like ways of communicating ways of signaling ways of seeing signaling because of these problems in being a ball, mafia. Run gave all it's very common because they were legal underground BAAs, and death. We didn't have to bail these garbage laws while because it was and legal underground Baugh nudged, anyone could get into starring won't you couldn't just walk into the windows, all blacked out and bought it over the doors is being heavy reinforced with steel door and those little people in the door. Too. Yeah. So he'd come up to the door. They look at you say that people if the bouncer recognized you he let you in. They might ask you to describe the inside of the barge approve. You'd already being there. Got in time with friends we get into the best. I can tell you, if you're with someone they knew would get in. And I think that's kind of how they build. That's how words breads. Yeah, that's how they built a community of patrons button is the insides distinct do. Can you just kind of make all what? Like the rundown ball, like you'll be like, yeah, there's a sticky pool table late great mats on the bar, and they'd be like checks out in you go. Thing to say because the mafia wanna make money off staying well, but they didn't really want to put any money into stonewall, lamb, so. Yes. Baas continue. Bob. So the inside is painted black because they wanted to cover up, the five image. I want to put any money into that. Down so dark in here I think it will, I think it must have been like black inside they will alike colored lights and later on. Well, I mean, we're talking about nineteen sixty nine now in about nine sixty eight they installed ultraviolet lights as well. Okay. So it sounds like a nightclub. So it's more like a club in that. I imagine it's filthy. Oh, yeah. We gotta talk about helping people. I mean, if it's super dock and all the lighting is like colored and. There's a health and safety is flat to you. No, no, no. Yes. Speaking of OH behind the ball, there was no running water, cool. So they had to big tall today dispute with water rinse and reuse at all. Yeah, it's pretty bad. Craig blames this for hepatitis outbreak. Amongst game in. I think it was the kind of eight kind of time. I think Craig's long frankly, that sounds medically sound because they'll, it's also get these types of one of them. So there was in the bathrooms are so they would also empty these tubs into the toilets and the toilets. But sometimes by sometimes, I mean, very often flow all over the bathroom floor. Yeah. The water that comes out of a taffeta bathroom is clean zoo. Feeling it up. Put things that you're going to drink in into this, tub any good pregnant aren't glosses. That's ridiculous gloss. I would have come to Stein what with my keep. Yeah. It sounds pretty dia. Police raids also raise the common, the INS did pay off the local police quite a lot of money. I've found numbers anywhere from twelve hundred dollars a month to eight thousand dollars a month, and that's a little money then that's a lotta money so much money. Can they possibly be making off of this box on, like a Friday or Saturday night? Then making a bound five thousand six thousand making a lot of money. Okay. Is it just opened on the weekend? So it's I've been all the time. But like those that night continues to the wall. Other drinks really expensive drinks incredibly. Cool. So disgusting and cheap the drinks watered down and hugely ever price. Lonzo. Okay. So like your standard like young post. Now, I guess. Oviously crucially Demot was the hotline like, you know, that's, that's, that's a practice that continues. Now, gay people consider it an exclusive Hugh time to go to Bosley. That I think at the time the mafia would get the alcohol, sometimes just like stolen truck, sometimes they'd be buying it onto the table from distilleries. So that was my tax. They president making it an often ball was one quote, where somebody said, mafia house, be, why would I drink that who Watson that which kinda applies? They might have been making. Oh, no. I like to imagine just like one mafia guy had like Hobie like, we'll let Tony thank. We can sell it tiny cold fat, Tony, all, like, Aw, that's us. Simpsons. Character. Not. Like isn't too stereotypical of made a coal this fake mobster. Tony the real most his name was already. Well, Tony, I imagine you were bad man. Was. It's the tiny was a good man might have been talk about very much, but he ran the ball drinks like delay of spirit say. Like that starts. I know that'd be because of told me saying, I wouldn't drink mafia house Pierre. If you pay me they do have spirits, because I know that, for example they had a little Smirnoff behind the ball, but that was not, not off now in some although white spirit that they would decant this minimum but allowed that. See that one real spindle. But without the back as well, they catch with special estimates that they genuinely liked. And from what it sounds like the stealing alcohol will like getting it onto the council. They just had a collected things that they could get the handle. Yeah. Yes. Not off. Iceman think a similar thing is true of most genres of spirit. So you just go up to the bar phone, and they're like, nah, and you're like, ski, I guess, sure seems like maybe. That's how it is. All right. So you say customers they liked. So this is Ron by mafia, other bartenders with people, mafia, people think a mix of it. Yeah. So the staff arm Meeks, mafia and queer people fat tiny himself. I don't know how he identified how interacted with this part of his life, but he's slept with men. Okay. Okay. Interesting. But the mafia a role who ran it pretty high phobic on the dick create costumes, pretty awfully and say things obviously faggots whatever. Raining table that tell back. I'm sorry, this team. I just division that would be a bizarre working. Yes. This relationship between the communion. The mafia where like there are Cueva wouldn't from the mafia. There. Akina mafia members, they're all in the same ball. Some of them, hate gays them all games. Some of ones who all gave probably hang hate gays and it's just a minute. Rush. Rush psychologically, taxing. Yeah. So as I was saying the staff, the mafia paid off the local police, so while they still were rated the raids were much less bad than they would have been if they hadn't paid off the police. So the I mean as we usually given a heads up when it was going to be a right that night, they usually take place on weeknights quite early in the night. So it didn't really impact business much, and they'd be able to reopen the next day or even that same night. And they know you know, we might keep too much booze and too much money on side because the police are gonna write tonight. And this kind of stuff would they tell the customers soul? Customers, though, I don't think they'd have an announcement being like raid tonight at nine pm guys. But people do say, I heard there was a rumor that was going to be a raid, this not to, like, what got around sort of presumably. Yes. Kind of the same thing with the good alcohol rive, once they like. Yeah. And the one play like tell their friends and people like, oh, we want to go tonight, we'll go somewhere else. Say, like people are going to be rides. Okay. So this'll sounds pretty on appealing the draw cod force. Join the made it worth going to inspire the bad. I have a price alcohol and the police rates. And the homophobic, mafia was it's too dense full as dancehalls didn't exist really at this time, as I mentioned, not only did the same old Tara consider credentialing disorderly pot. They could also be considered solicitation. I found a few sources saying that stonewalls Dan flows were the only gay dance was in New York. There are couple of others that kind of mentioned dancing. I'll swayed all mentioned kind of being able to get away with dancing elsewhere, and opposite. This changed over time is, we have had a super high turnover rate because the police, so probably at some of the liquid pools in New York, but possibly the most prominent, and it seems like they were the most prominent and definitely the longest running during what was notable for being. I'm very long running. We have yet. Okay, but I don't think I can have a state, the importance of queer people having this place could get together and dance and the open in their affection with each other. When everyone else that was political. Denny govern recounts, going to start and we'll with a man he slept with the night before, I'm Charlie, Charlie awesome. If he wanted to dance, and he said, oh, no, no. I don't dance. I don't dance. What if somebody told me and Charlie it was like Denny everyone's get you. Madani said, no, no. I went to. And then later in the night, Charlie said, we'll do you wanna dance with anyone that any man in this ball, you find attractive? And Denny said yet, Frank, and then he burst into tears home, because this was just so foreign to him. Yeah. I love Donny Eloy. He's a good man. I also love Charleston. It's like a good show for that story. He seems like a good Shelley seems like a nice guy. He took Danny Stein. Well, he liked helped him get his goes boyfriend dancing with Frank and going out with friends all that school. So. So as I mentioned that with three dance full storm almost split into two rooms, and I both had the bothering jukebox, and there and dance little legit. The front room was has called the white room. So it was most popular with one of the patients Martin Boyce describes as regular gays that didn't go in any kind of drag didn't use the word she that time. So the front of what why so the front room is mostly for swine men. More middle class and a bit older. In terms of the average patronage of Stein wool, too. Are more likely to get closer to businessmen? Interesting so the back room. And I'm just going to mention because I think it's great because of its time as a reception center with straight winnings had full-size wishing role in the center of the room. All that's objections. Veteran. But I use it just abuse objectively. Actually used to still be so. Yeah. Was this. Lorsch. Doing what happened to basement. I was wishing well, wishing now, so whereas the front room was the white room, the room was called the black room, although Puerto Rican room. Oh, okay. To both his worms have black painted wolves the whole. The whole I realized that's about this is about the race of the people, so the names of racially coded than not based on anything aesthetic about those, the names, all of its segregated. It's not segregated. No wanted segregating it except people that was deciding which to go into. It's not forcibly segregated but yes, the patronage is largely set great. So it's like the official policy is pressure to yeah. Yeah. I think there is pressure to say the people who hung out in the back room. Do talk about how the dance Lewis had a bit of a different vibe. So the back room, they do kind of more communal, dancing, let alone, all the weed group dances of the day, I think of an example like. All right. Covering, I'm genuinely just thinking about the Bush. Macarena from that time. Yeah. Whereas cable in the front room would be more kind of getting gathering so people come in the back room. But sometimes go to the front room for and. Or just go to the front room because it was on that one. We'll people there on. They kind of show off more. That's okay. Okay. So it's not just a racial split. They didn't have kind of different vibes. And there was movement between two years. Okay. But broadly, it was segregated as well as race. The people who gathered in the backroom, generally young, as I mentioned than the people in the front room, generally less middle class, and generally more fim. So I told him about this demographic split lays into a conversation about the demographics of who went to stonewall, which is a pretty contentious topic. And there's a lot of disagreement from people who went there as well as from later historians about who went to stonewall. And I think part of that is because it was split into two rooms, you know, if you hang yet, in one, remove the you've got a completely different image of, what kind of bio going. Okay. All right. I'm seeing sensing was. That's eight factor. So, so most people agree that stonewall was dominated by people assigned male at both ciswomen did sometimes. But once his lesbian, for example, says that while she was never made to feel unwelcome. She always felt like she was visitor in someone else's territory. I've no salsas about transmission going to we'll maybe they are some nice nobody's talked about things more complicated when we talk about trans women all transparent. And people ask so many patrons, who went to say that street queens a dominant presence at Stein will. If you listen to our website on Masha. You've heard us talk about straight queens before straight queens were a loose group of generally homeless quit teams and they will often from Rachel minorities. Almost all were assigned male at birth. Many years, female names. She pronouns and dressed in feminine clothing, at least some all of the time. So these people were quite a big presence at storm will, but on the other hand, several patrons also note that drag queens. I'm doing court Tia, too short physically that used the word drag Queen all the word transvestite, and note that these people were unlikely to be let into the. So what's happening here is that the people who assigned drag queens and transvestites went let into the us specifically talking about people assigned male at both wearing dresses. Okay. This has led people to plane that stonewall was Limbaugh, full gaining, it's pretty obvious that the absence of people assigned male at both in dresses. Does not mean it's just awful of this man on specifically in a time when for someone who was assigned male, both wearing address was very risky decision, but inside and outside the box. So in the event of a police rain or if you accord on the street on your way to from the by you could be arrested for failing to with three items of clothing that matched your sex, and obviously, traveling to and from the by could also become a victim of random queer Fertig bounds. So people such as transferring in queens, who wanted to found other ways to express feminine. Indeed. Absolutely. So I'm coming style was what was cooled skid. Right. I saw someone wearing scared right? I might be wearing a wig and makeup, type pants and amend tight around midrift. So in the event of a police raid will come. Growing from the ball and he just pulled off the wig on Tisha, and they're in pants and a men's shut their in men's clothing. Route totally safe even though within the conduct at the ball when they've got the week and the short head off. It's a very family. I don't want to make a lot of the fact that it was coming out of fear files, but that's sounds like a great look. I agree, Barry and live with current trends about like cardinals. Yeah, yeah, I agree. And I think it's like very cool that even in this time when things were pretty awful. They found these kind of creative ways to work within the rules. Unlike emit cool styles. Yeah. I was about to say I mean that's going to happen as soon as you create because, like you're saying they had to wait three items of clothing. That's the specific name was in place, does not say that, but that's sort of commonly said by both the police, and queer people that was kind of the rule police used to decide whether you clothing was appropriate or not. So the law said that you couldn't be Mossel unusually tied in a way that kind of heed your identity from the exact wedding. Right. So the law doesn't actually mentioned sex agenda thought when the police were policing gender that was. Of the rule of thumb the as yet. But yeah. Soon as that kind of rule of thumb becoming, you're always gonna get about that. Yes. Like whilst it's coming from an awful place is always going to result in to me. Interesting creative things. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That was a slightly different style people wearing the style called flame Wayne's, which I think is very jewelry. Yup. And that's a very similar thing just get right? But I don't know exactly what the difference is okay. Yeah. So many straight cranes were also scheduled queens. So I roll as much of kind of picked up. This is a debate about whether stonewall was awful. What is this man ball with trans women and trans people them? It's worth noting. However, that straight Queen transvestite drag queens skid, right? Queen flame Queen all these words describe circumstance behavior. They don't actually give us information about people's gender identities. We have specific information about specific individuals I can confirm that were this male drag queens out mall, and they will also transmit that story I thought settled them. Okay. Let's go down starting full. Thank you. Well. But we can't really make sweeping generalization beyond the fact that no it wasn't as Tobar for six game in, but we call. Yeah. We can say we can say that it wasn't one hundred percents this game in. Yeah. Three of nerve. Like accurate measure of what percentages looking at. Yeah. Yes, straight queens were be force. It's doing well and not by some straight Quainton themselves from all the people who went to stay. We'll also from a fair few kind why middle class men who said, I didn't like to go to stonewall, because it was kind of trashy it was kind of tacky street, cranes day. You know, it wasn't so that's the thing we do know that there were a lot of street grains, and we do know that a lot of them were people assigned male at both who presented quite feminine in some way, but we don't really know how them identified. So what's the capacity of this, Paul? I actually have the floor plans that tell me legally, how many people were allowed to be in this, that lost, like twenty five. So what we're looking at others. Is going say Molex fifty hours. Picture and tell you why this is the Buffy about or at times, like it was pretty crowded according to this flow plan that was drawn somewhere around the time. It has a capacity of one hundred and eighty five persons, plus five employees. I'd like to fifteen we're in wishing while I try. Yeah. That's how many people were in. I'm just thinking about how many like potential street queens. They could hope beam different insult things yet reasonable, particularly if it was, I mean, particularly if it was long running right? Yes. I'm from sixty seven to sixty nine okay, which doesn't sound like that long time. But it was a long time for quite a ball in the sixties. Yeah, well, yeah, that sounds like I mean, the dearly for the street Queen populations since you said the Lumo harmless. Yeah. Dot tends to be a fairly transient relation. The scene. One month competitor, renounce data line could be very different. That's true. Masha? Pay Johnson, for example, Dawes mentioned that the demographic did change over time. So she says at first, it was just a buffet men, then gradually Saad. Letting women in, then they started letting drag queens in, and I don't want Masha means by drag queens in that context if she does mean assign male Bethany and address, or she could mean any anyone in some way assignment, both and FAM. Long delayed. Anyway, the point is that there were people of a riot e of queer identities. Ouston at at the Boston will. Kinda show. I mean, obviously, it's part of the reason that people talk about this much is because who went to the ball affect who was the fact who started the gay rights movements. I'm doing skateboards. I also want to add just very briefly something that we've talked about before on this podcast. And some recent gender-based episodes that this thing that these table trying to do. They're trying to pool a pot the community and say it wasn't gay men. Or was it trends women is a modern thing. We're trying to push on this group of people, and they didn't split themselves necessarily in this way. It was both. It was a mix. It was some people that identified us knee look for many people to quite miss major, who is transparent of color, who did go to stone. We go to stonewall and everything would be fine. We didn't have to explain now so. So we've had we'll now let's talk about the same rights. That was the background section. Yes. That was the background section right? Cool. Mentioned the riot. Those clearly the backgrounds nothing like minded. Is get at one point the game on the twentieth of June. Nine hundred sixty nine deputy inspector CMO pine and detective. Charles Smythe doesn't disdain well and announced police taking the place while I hate them. Just let it by myself. Yeah. Okay. That's fair. That's names us. Mommy. And I'm sure that bad people did. I saw something interesting president in that we have a lot of information from pine often talking about how he feels about. Okay. So that's interesting. I guess. So this wasn't normal way from the local police. That's why it happened at one twenty eight and it was a Friday night, rather than nine pm on a Tuesday when the local police would. So pine wasn't political police. He was from the first division of public morals. Wow. That's like old cop so bad. But some cops worse worse than all the good slogan, some cups, the worse. Unlike the local police pine was very anti corruption. He wouldn't accept payments. Okay. Yes. Holly in order to put a stop to the police corruption that centred around starring wool he hyped that night to close at once and for all. And there. Yeah. There are other factors that I don't have much time show here. Like the illegal alcohol was a major concern pine, then was also blackmail coming out of stonewalls in the mafia, blackmailing, the kind of closeted businessman, who had frequents during wool and using that to buy stuff on Wall Street. And. There are a lot of factors that men pine wanted this dawn. He wanted this closed most police at the time didn't bother to get warrants with this kind of thing. Pine went and got a warrant and a warrant not just to raise the bar but to physically take the ball. Oh, okay. Like disassemble the not the building. The Bob the you buy drinks like pitch in the Bobby made obligatory long. I'm being like yes, I have a ward disassemble these blocks. Yeah. Yeah. That was planned. We'll the evening. That's. A worse plan that I've ever had. That's totally turn. No, it's true. Thank you for going to bench. I made a lot of bad decisions in my life. But none of them. But then buying it, you bought a little wine. Steroid game. As you can see the scale of play some cups a work. Okay jason. Yeah. The laura. Okay. So actually particularly concerned with arresting the patrons. Okay. He kind of expected he'd turn up he'd often for ID that show ID. That'd be a bit of a false for the ones who weren't dressed in the way that matched the six on their ID. And then that old-style that was what people usually did. That's what gay people usually did. When police way, the boss, it was quite, we left, and they came back later that night came back the next day, and they just went back to what they were doing and the police and quia people's kind of accepted, this was, how life was the have been riots before. Yes, there have been riots before this is not to say that people had never fought back against the police. I'm not aware of any before in New York, but there had been riots on the west Swiss America before. Links to this kind of thing I thought that was put to make given how people talk about starting. That's I didn't have time to really go to what was happening on the west coast of America. But yeah, on the east coast in New York. The expectation was that the patriots would quietly go Heim the police would see some alcohol and some money by resumes. Stoff osteen. I make the point but normally the police on here to shutdown love him yet. That's the big difference. It's the police at that down the mall. It doesn't mean that it was a fun time for the patrons as I've mentioned, particularly for people who weren't dressed in a way that match the sex. The police would heard one to one room that either have to declare themselves and say, yes, I mean, address that I am a man or they'd be examined. To determine this X McKay. I send this in the funny and still of, but I would just like to reiterate how similar this is to the case of the finance della which was a court case that happened in the eighteen eighties yet. Yeah. I just reiterate, how back gay transistory in a specific way. Yeah. On the fact that ninety years later was. Yes. Similar abo. Yeah. So that night, however these people didn't cooperate in the way they normally would so pine nights that kind of from straightaway. They gathered older people assigned male at birth and dressed in bam way into the back room to ide- them, and examine them potentially on these people just want taking it. There are mainly like token back to the police and things like that. How the group we're talking. I don't know. Let's, let's Winnington on our. Yeah. That's annoying. I'm sorry. Okay. Yeah. I'm sure you do this. Well, I mean we've established it like if it's one AM, which walking probably capacity crowd. Yes, or doesn't necessarily tell us exactly how many fend dressed people that were bought probably quite a few like you're probably looking at teens of the. Yeah, I really don't know and number at old. But presumably so that we're only the two plays also who came in to undercover cops or any in the button to announce worse to police women had gone into early end the night to kind of scope it out to physically identify employees because employees would be more likely to be arrested because they were running on a legal business. Not just in an illegal business anti when place right at employees would usually jump over the bar and just pretend to be patrons. The police has pretty. Yeah. So the policemen went into identify employees without them having a chance to do that. How do they get in one of them? At least as a couple of mentions that suggested she might have actually been queer and actually just go onto the ball as about some earth. The public terrible situation. Yeah. I'm surprised that would police women at this time to be honest. Yeah. Yeah. That what led to this raid? Yeah. Interesting. So that was true on the cover, and then police who came in. He actually does. So that's foreign title. So I mean it sounds like the main distinction from previous rights is just the fact that the ratio of police to. The patriots is probably way different yet. If I told police patrons at this point is quite low pine did cool for backup. Like once he got into the bar and everything he did COPA backup. So part of the reason was once he got in and all these fem people started talking back. He kind of went not. We're gonna arrest them all. And he cold backup for that. He also called the emergency services to help him physically carried the ball. Actual billing. Take it away. All right. Your car. Fall out from a building just so I'm using to write to that's true, though, the front end the basketball to juke boxes. Yeah. They they leave the wishing. Well, they also do the jukebox. Yes. Correct. Well. She also had a lot of pirated music in the midst the police didn't careful. Great. That's great. I don't think but then again the well was used to stool booze, which was a legal. So who knows? Brick by break, maybe they did. They did call for backup, but originally that way, it was four of them. So in the back bomb, these fem people started talking back to the police in the front. Butch lesbians, kind of gathered for a similar purpose of checking whether they will cross dressing and they also started to talk back to policing. Behaving a similar way. Meanwhile patrons, who had been ID and then allowed to leave the ball instead of going quietly humming as the police have expected began together out. Give rise, the fact that we need to think about why it was this not when people behave differently put inside and outside the up. The side different from all other nights. Which is very wide audience joke. It'd be out Jewish listeners. I love. Basel. Else different from. Well, there are several factors. Okay, one five is this was the second time storm we'll have been right of in that week. Okay. So rates Coleman. But rates went usually that common. So people will already pretty mad and just because of the general kinda feel at the time and I mentioned in the Queen movement, how at Chiswick changing and with things like the Black Panthers and the anti-women, how people with getting less happy to work within the establishment, people who are angry about that. I read what kind of or time say, we can't take this anymore. Why do we put up with this stuff like that? And all the fact that was that it wasn't as usual on a weekend to previous rate that we could be on Tuesday. This time it was late at night on Friday. Ball was at capacities does just many more people there to react. And also the drunk and the drunker I wanted them a high pro-lee, so this people they would normally be there for a right. That's true. Yeah. Those people who only come there on a weekend, or there's going to be a lot more people there full time there, because it's a way kind of this more people in general, so, yeah, you've just got a big crowd a crowd who's list used to a crowd who's drunk and high end full mole. I make that kind of decision. Also people just more then we'll into then either want to him the less likely to want to quietly go home. Yeah. That's the time when you say you're feeling telling people you've met twice that you love them. But having. And we'll talk a bit more about Sylvia Rivera later on. But in one of her accounts of the evening, silver era says a friend frankly often to do wanna come to him. We'll, and I set the hot hates time while I don't wanna go to stern. We'll, and then she said, okay, fine. I went to join but by the time you know, just before the police arrived, I was getting really into it. I was saying to the United States not that bad this way. I love everyone on this. Exactly. We'll get like I love all the two full people in his mouth. So that's the factor on top of that. It was gene in the middle of Selma. It was a hot night. It was a it was just a nice night to be out. So people are more likely to. So we know what I've been kicked out about, but I'm guess, Dan on the street and talk to process by about it. I'm gonna wait till my friends, who was still being examined by the police a lit let the ball. So these people gathering on the street, and then on top of that this was more people out in general, and people saw to see this crowd gathering and compensate. What's going on people saying, we'll just being right? And so the crowd saw to grow just kind of random people Queen and not quit who went out that night land on this month. We'll get into what happens when you try to have a pride celebration in June. The solid. This is why was moved person, same. Well about spoiler. A very political decision. Anyway, in the USA, June is a nice month that I've out and ready to fight the cops. That's beautiful June is fly to call them. I mean what else is pride? Cops pride. Some cops are worse. Okay. You know how LSU and I did that virtual reality exploration of tomb time. And that's the thing that people actually locations. It'd be so cool. This would be unlike because the building is still there. You just read scannon and then just put the skin how. How Lucas Janke? Still, it's still gave on. Janke. It's just nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a crowd gathered outside. I won't have. It's kind of a crowd of people kind of milling around, but gradually started to get kind of a bit of a political feeling. So Craig Broadwood who we've mentioned to end up. He wasn't in the ball, he was on his way from somewhere else. Feeling feisty feeling upstairs and he yelled out gay power seems being character at also very carry Craig, people started seeing we comb and chance and things like that. So they started to become a kind of political crowd, rather than all, what are we doing the street? I wanna be drunk crowned as people gradually let out and the boss people who had been by police. Oh, whatever they started to play up to the crowd. The crowd was obviously pretty high spirits at this point. I saw it throw out there and strike poses, as they walked out of the ball and cheer or yell out. You know, I'd give that a ten all. From the ball and seeing this situation, which he just did not expect Pinal weather says that he was pretty frightened. Good. That's how to be radio. For more backup custody because he ready for backup coal to and said any bands to put my prisoners than what about. And when he was done. Disregard that cool. We don't know who's on the other end of that year. We will probably never know on the other ones that radium. Theory. So possibly someone in the crown had just manager tune into the police frequency of it is just a radio. Yeah. It's also possible that it was the local police who pretty mad that the cash cow was badly shot down and mine had not warned them on volt them in the right. So two very likely candidates, I think the local polices possibly Clinton that they would have had the radio angry about it. Like I would have been shoot in tuned in listening, it could go either way. I hope it was that attention, lesbian undercover. Call was like do this anymore. I mean fix this. Backup at all. I hadn't considered. I'm sure that the case. Like it'd be nice. I think it's neat. That is what happened. I think it's nice. I don't think it was the case at the time but all were carrying right here. Okay. So I do mention that, that was someone with, like the radio, get the talking like a walkie talkie. Number eighty dog in line. So that was like the radio guy who has listeners trying to mind. How think radio would have been very while. I wonder if the radio call was quo will less cool and the cops the other call. I suspect. But in the way backup came on was fine. It's fine. That is fine around this point, the crowd erupted into violence, what they gonna happen kept rating ball. So I don't need to tell you that there's a lot of contention about what started the violence at stonewall, and who threw the first whatever it was very so this, definitely an object to that gets thrown that stuff stuff. Okay. So wasn't object thrown if so, what was it if so who was thrown like, well, I'll definitely throw me. I mean, in some account, it's somebody punching a cop out the violence and Tom accounts as somebody throwing something. Okay. So what incident incited the mile, yes? Incited violence in what way today questions. Yeah. So by the time, the violence is incited, it's already a rowdy crowd. Yeah. It's already rowdy crowd like Craig's. All ready. Yelling out, gave Powell already rowdy crowd. Yet. Do you feel there's point that this is a situation for which the crowd could feasibly just backed down from and disposed g think it was kind of a foregone conclusion ready before whoever did whatever that this was kind of good L? I mean that's a hard thing to say definitively. I would not ask you to say definitively, I'd lean towards the lattice it was a rowdy crowd. And the police will already kind of starting to respond violently at this point, the police was signed to lead prisoners out of the ball into a patrol and, and Bank quite rough with those prisoners on people pretty angry about it, depending on what can't rating. People already started to throw things at the police bitcoin. So that was a reference to the police demanding payoffs safely drink. So some accounts say that people saw doing this off to violence breaking out, but some account said people are doing this, so there was already not tension between the crown and the police spot, some level of violence on the police end, if not yet on the crowd, and so, yeah, I don't think there's a high chance at this point that people would have just gone hunting. If backup com- if that cool had gone through. I think it could have been different. Yeah. I think that the arrival of more police could've scare people bought somebody into that cool. And so the backup didn't come intense, do we have an idea of how the crowd walls at this point? It's around kind of five hundred dollars, so people have really been gathering from the surrounding streets. Yeah. The estimated like fifty we've said, probably inside the ball. So it's, it's a pretty big crowd already a hundred and twenty five. Random people versus one call. All right. Let's go. There are many accounts of how variet- started I'm gonna focus on the three. I'm aware of come from eyewitnesses, so people who say they saw this happen, not so, and so it told me this happened anything like that. And also a couple of which are very commonly talked about okay? So I went and accounts. The most common explanation is that the Ryan's was bought by a lesbian refusing to be put into a patrol then accounts mentioned that she complained to police about their rough treatment that hit her, and she hit them back, and it was hurt hitting a cult that sparked the violence, one account mentions that she yelled at why don't you guys do something, and that the crowd interaction enough? I witness accounts, mention her, including three which were written down within the week of the riots. So that's not nearly as. Objected influence from, you know hearing about it. Elsewhere, what does people's memories being inconsistent as histories might be enough of the counts mentioned her, that I think it's pretty safe to say that these did happen, whether it was the first active tunnel, we can discuss, but I think it's safe to say that was a lesbian, who fought back against police vary early in the violence going news. And this may have sparked the violence. The next question is being walls, so in nine ninety five Charles Kaiser interviewed drag king stormy, cues, washing, and cooled game metropolis about queens. Drip yoke and he found that while she denied she was this lesbian her count of what she'd done that night, the description of what this Lisbon had done that night. So she denies that she is being in what way she did not that she is the inciting lesbian. So Charles ties doesn't go into this that much depth. Okay. He thinks. Says she denies being the stonewall lesbian the store. Which doesn't exactly tell us what's told me was denying doesn't give us a quote from stole me about. However, stormy confirmed that she was the storm will lesbian in another interview and said she never taken credit because it was never anybody's business. Okay. So there are some reasons that people have questioned identifying stormy as the stern will lesbian David CASA the historic mentioned the star who kind of the storm we'll points out that's doing with African American while the stone will lesbian is described his cO casual. It's worth nineteen. That's told me is, in fact, mixed-race. So, although with African American have filed it was why. And we know she was sometimes read us why she has self is talked about this. And also, inflate and doc. Yeah. And people drunk. Yeah. Yeah. David Carta says, you know everyone I spoke to described her as Caucasian or something which just didn't sound true. Frankly, maybe what happened there as he said, what she wide. And yet, like, yes, I think so. And if that's how that happened. And like that's a leading question, and that could just be being like, yeah, I remember her skin being all yet comfortable saying she was wide yet, do any of those accounts that were written in the first week afterwards. Mentioned her rights, talk about the appearance of the person that her appearance quite consistent in describing kind of quite toll lodge woman, kind of stereotypically Butch woman, not fitting into that aesthetic of the time. Not not mention Harris. I'm aware of obviously caught has some accounts. I don't have access to some accounts that I didn't Riedel's too many. I just wanted to dismiss that one caught the hutments Cosmo questions. Why it took so long to identify stole me as the storm. We'll lesbian vacation, as I mentioned that I'm aware of ninety five share. Lead said it was into has an eight caught also nights, especially since she was a very well known in New York's lesbian community, this just doesn't add up and that may be family on the same kind of. It doesn't quite reasonable you. I know that stormy only settled in New York after sixty nine but she was a former touring places including New York, and I'm willing to believe was quite in the lesbian community that time I do wanna. I'm only one account of this time, we'll lesbian violence Byan. They aren't many account to the storm will rise by lesbians, so maybe asking the wrong people. But I think it is fair point. Why did this come out if it was lost -ly witnesses say that the lesbian was arrested inside the ball or being escorted to the patrol car from the door of the ball by its own account? She wasn't in the ball at all. She was passing on the street. She sold the crowd. She saw a friend who had been knocked to the ground by police near the vase entrance. She went over to help him and a policeman told toll to move along. And that was when she was hit by the police minute she hit back, but if she went to the door of the ball, and then was arrested and people looked up being led away from there, that would very naturally assume that she'd been in the Barnes being excluded out. Yeah, yeah. There is one employee who says he saw rested in the ball, which we'll make that work, but yeah, accounts do say she was coming from the door of the Bob, don't necessarily. Knowing that she was inside the ball Sony, that's much. They've mentioned I have about stormy without the stone, lesbian. So that's the one. That's how many on of three major I witness theories cool. So let's move onto theory to several witnesses. Also, I credit, a drag Queen with inside and the violence at some name has physically seventeen year old Tammy knowing that who's her purse at police. Trying to put her in the patrol van. Well, that's interesting time I have never had a time before them, tapping to these. I think part of the reason that we've heard of stormy, but we haven't had time because stormy was very involved with the community off to that she has spoken about her involvement. It's doing things like that cannot track on any information on Tammy. I know nothing about having. I mean I don't think about coming the time. So I tell me one of the few drag queens, who was allowed into style Malta. She was allowed into animal in address spy, being signed mail of both because she had connections with some of the stuff so she lived with some of the stuff then you letter. Okay. Yeah, that's one all that time. Okay. Cool. Nobody's folks Tammy. Justice. Yeah. They raised three is Raymond task Puerto Rican game. He says he was handcuffed by police outside of the door of the ball, but he fought back when they tried to put him into the troll van and this match several other islands accounts that described the catalyst of the violence, as being a man fighting back when he was put into the patrol and seem to kind of match up with raise account what happened. So those, the only three people that I'm aware of being mentioned as stalking violence in accounts. Upstream. You let us the absence of Masha Johnson, and Sylvia, Rivera, whom I have noticed that. I also noticed the lack of brick shock loss. Yes. Yes, old is three people credited with punching or hitting with a purse or what race says he did is they tried to them in the band. He planted his feet on either side of the door and just kind of pushed himself back with north the cops over. I mean that's great which is pretty great. Vigilance stunning ten. What is waiting that? And he was like I planted a food on either side of the patrol Landau. I was like, why is the door of trouble vehicle take some flexibility, I came back door? But you probably what you probably featuring once actual. I assume that's what he actually gets the whole back of the cars over. I think like vans often have like a single. Yeah. On the back that. Yeah. I think so. And I think that is what ready really meant. But originally, I was just like that's incredible acrobatics Rams. Natural twenty acrobat. Yeah. Right. All the pets and you never mentioned. It's true. So shout out to rake, Astra dole. Three, the lesbian Tammy Rayo mentioned in, I witness accounts, the lesbian has meant more accounts. You know, they all day and I think it's pretty likely that all of those things happened around the time, the violence started, which happened. I, I can't say, maybe they haven't painlessly but I would say they will happen all had some role in inciting violence. Like hundreds of people that, but I don't think we can pull out one of those incidences de incident. So let's talk about Masha and Sylvia. It's very common in modern conversations about stonewall. He Masha Johnson credited with inciting the riots we have a whole episode on mantra p Johnson. I encourage you to listen to Masha Johnson at that time was in her early twenties. She was an African American drag Queen. She sometimes I didn't try a street Quyen that she's kind of all of that crowd, but she was living on the streets of New York at that time, and in both and quite readily identified by that we community. And she has said that she did go to storm will she did drink at that ball. So the story about Masha starting the riots goes that when police fuss entered the ball Masha throw shot glass in Amira yelled out. I got my civil rights. I'm not aware of any, I witness account that mentioned this, and it's also worth noting that we have pines accounts of what happened inside the ball where he. Talks about fam- people fighting back. And if somebody had smashed the loss, I think that would be worth mentioning. Mirror. I am not aware Amirah icon, any other mention element done. Interesting. Audie detective allies, Alva cakes. Yeah. I don't know of any of the interior styling wool sucks. So that's I mean, obviously, there were mirrored in the bathroom because I know that drag queens and queens would complain that the lighting was really bad in the women's often, they couldn't put them up on so they were trying to do make up these narrows. Yeah. But mean that story was told told with the suggestion that she was standing in the author. No about they did use the bathroom, sometimes to examine people to Semin this all gathered them all in the background, they'd take them into the bathroom, and examine them. So, like Masha being in the bathroom next to Amiram this, okay? Wrong by little, there's no eyewitness account of this happening also like if it's in citing the Krahl to having it be in, like one room of Tura ball. But yes, if the fem. People had been pulled their it being in a baltim- seems much more remove. Yeah. That's true. How can you inside a riot from ball both room? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like from plans. Account Walsall's inside the Bob. I don't think you can say that, that incited the riot. Yeah. That just doesn't logically fuller. Yeah. Yeah. I also think that, that would be an eyewitness account. We have accounts of people who were in that back room of the ball and they don't mention it. I don't know of firsthand account of this stored. So it was. Well, what Masha has self says, is that she arrived at around two I am. So you'll remember I mentioned the cops arrived at one twenty the cops know the undercover Cosby arrived at one twenty and she says, quote the place was a little ending on fire the riots at started so are. Are. About as definitive is gonna get. Yeah. Yeah. So where does the story come from? How can we trace it wound question? So caught a science that he this story from Roman Sousa Roman sue. That was not an eyewitness. Intern hood it from two people Monte Robinson and multi Manfred. I'm not aware of accounts from Monte, what he ma'am of seeing more T has given several accounts all the riots and what he did on tour in the riots, and he's never mentioned this in any of the accounts that have read. Okay. So I can't really give you a good origin story. It's likely that it was just being mentioned in cautious book popularized. It because Katamon footnote in, which is credited, he doesn't put it into the text of his book. So it was I tell you around before then but I don't really from where who. So that's, that's that. That's the shock loss. Mosh appeals and things yet I don't think much Johnson for the loss. Sorry. Other any other contenders who through the joke loss. No, there's no other discussion about the loss though. I told him that Sylvia Rivera, the first account, I'm aware, which gives Sylvia credible. Inciting the riots comes in the ninety s and says she threw an empty gin bottle against the door of the boss. It's not a shock loss, but as gods Barrett. I mean it's also against the dole. So that seems more plausible. Yeah. I'm sure that would do. Question we've was, there was one door, sill this account like Martius doesn't. They had this out into one. So he says that she wasn't the ball that night, but I've been given credit throwing molotov, cocktail by many historians, but always like to correct it. I three the second one I did not throw the first one so molotov cocktail is a figurative term. He errol. What they were doing was putting lives of fluid and bottles and lifing that. So I know a lot of fluid doesn't been very hotline fluent has, like a super low emission point. So it's not necessarily fired. It's going to burn you, but it looks like a molotov cocktail and the police didn't. They went molotov cocktails pine talks about there being molotov cocktails, though. He generally believed these little unexploited really. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Wow. They went from zero to molotov cocktails relief. Yeah. Yeah. Yes coins to molotov cocktails. So that's what Sylvia says who threw molotov cocktails. Yes, she, she doesn't actually say, CASA actually questions Sylvia at Stein, we'll at all. Because he finds several inconsistencies in accounts of the night. So I have one interview, Sylvia says it was the first time that I've been to free stone, I mentioned before, who likes to. Godless counts, she said that she'd been them anytime. I'm not sure what specific accounts for to say. She'd been there many times, I do know that she says, she used to pick ups as drug Ronal thought that's kind of different to going to drink. Yeah. So both could be true. Learn. Yeah. But their statements could be true and that could be an explanation for this discrepancy. If it is the first time she's been there as a patron. That's credit. Can mean that's quite an eye. Yeah. Yeah. Secondly, caught a mentioned that in one account till this as she wasn't drag in another account. She says she wasn't in drag. Could be explained away by the flu Blake now now I'm not the best. I have solely of that fit from Sylvia has south says she was in quote, semi drag, so she was wearing a suit a women suit, she didn't have a wing on, but she hadn't hit out, and I think it was quite long and she had makeup on. Yeah. Well, so is it drag as an ultra having this light very black and white discussion about a community that has been? Overlapping liberal states. The dole is. Sylvia mentions that Masha was having a birthday party uptown that night but moshers about that. He's an engine. It's august. Seems unlikely marshals. I mentioned she was having a potty uptown that night. So it seems like Sylvia's just e the misremembered wealth. The party was all like we will be into both parties that a months out from the actual when in August is much as birthday. I couldn't tell you the exact. But I think it's late will follow because I was kinda say, this is Jean fairly Olga. That's really a few ways. Yeah. Yeah. But I'd say Masha was having a party but maybe it wasn't a birthday party. I don't think misremembered reasonable potty is enough to say you went. Like. I miss remember the reasons with holidays called still. I think one of the things that adulthood as we oldest need to admit that we don't wanna friends birth. Once most difficult to reconcile about the question of whether Sylvia was out the riots on what she did that is that wall Sylvia says she was in the ball in police arrived. And she gives an account in good night. And I've told her about that Betty, according to conta Masha said that Sylvia had passed out on a bench after taking heroin in Bryant park, which is about three kilometers away from stream and the Masha has helped works up after the riots began. Okay. I don't have quotes from Marshall on this. This is something that caught said that I have to take that as well. I'm not aware of any eyewitness account. The place silver at storm won't be on Sylvia's own account. That's all my formation on Sylvia. Okay, so Masha, Sylvia. Shawcross. Yeah. Masa until we a- neither of them started the riots. They're all the witnessing out that place Masha. Their Masha was involved in the riots. Sylvia says she was there Masha. Apparently says she wasn't there when she turned out later. We just started. It's worth noting that if she was there, either then Aleida, she was drunk and high end so many other I witnesses, so you can see how these accounts, get confused. And how people say all she was there at the start. No. She later on when people can't keep track not only because drunk and high because they in a violent crowd, and this scary. And yet it was dark it was the middle of the night yet. Like there were drunk, they'll high, it was a crowd of hundreds of people though is violence. Like, there are so many reasons why these own clear. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it is true in help people like talk about stonewall all the truth about stone. Not have never once had someone be like that. They would drunk though high. I've never heard that be like pot of people talk about I'm already insoles spoke, whatever. But just like the discussions that community has. Yeah. And, like, of course Simpson started saying, I was like, obviously people drunk. Yeah. I mean off until recording this episode I feed off me. When did they occur? In terms of time today, I would have been really like the early evening. Often like I'd no idea, the middle than really changed. Really does. Yeah. I think it really explains why it's so haunt pinpoint exactly what happened on what the truth about Stein will and caught a said, writing his book he sat down, and he got out maps of the Boswell flow kind of the ball, and he got out of this rounding area and he said to people point to me on the map way you were, and tell me approximately what time this happened, yet he kind of started putting pins and constructing that way, try and put together his cats. Great good job. Yeah. I like how long did this for like the Bob's into the one twenty the ball ended at one twenty we'll talk about what happened afterwards but around four AM ish. Yes. Approximately a three hour period. Yeah. So people could have common go on, like, there's a lot of ambiguity, and, like Sylvia. For example, says in her account, I'm not clear. Why bought partly Gary said, let's go home and get a change of clothes. And she said, no. I don't wanna leave this is the revolution. But, you know, things like that, like she was going to go get changed Craig left to get his camera, because he knew something big was happening. Unfortunately notice photos came out really salts ox. Yeah. I love him. Like gave how be right back. Yeah. He went his camera any mental payphone. He's phoned the on new post the New York Times, and I three made today. And told them, what was happening like is just such what grade crazy. Yeah. Crazy ising still living, don't think he is. Well, we should talk about him. Sometime. I'm reading. Length episode of us twenty upgrade crate. Upraised. I think Craig is really great because he immediately recognized. But what was happening was political Craig sounds like a great person to have if someone ever needed a Heimlich. Just like this. Craig's. Great. All right. So that's the break slash shock loss slash whatever. But we haven't heard anything about Burke yet. Yeah. So I do want to emphasize now this cost how, I don't think either Marshall was Sylvia. Incited the riots that doesn't mean that trans women only transient and people didn't play a key role in the riots. Because I think when people have this debate about wasn't the stonewall, lesbian wasn't Marsha p Johnson. What they're really having a debate about is delays. Bring us gay Powell. What did trans women bring us cow? That's what they're really fighting about and the discussion. I think specifically is do transpeople does have a place in the movement and the answer is yes. And also, the anti is this is not predicated on one app. Even if this was one act which started the riots, and even if we all going to talk about who we should think, for the riots, there were a lot of people. There are many, many people involved. I'm only mentioned Tammy of trends feminine hasn't who potentially daughter, the riots, many witnesses single out street, queens as the group, which fought. Hottest at simul. And this is often credited to the fact that they were used to fighting police that used to fighting for whatever they wanted to need it because they will homeless living on the streets. They had no other option. And also, they had much less to lose. So if you are, you know this white man who goes to win secret gonna get out there and riot when Craig's with its camera go before anyone sees you because you've got a whole lions accountant. Joe on Monday. Yeah. Exactly. Whereas if you are a straight Quyen it's not gonna have your life to be seeing a riot. You've probably been arrested fifty times before I we talked about, shrine Sylvia said aisles count, after I got arrested on times. Yeah. That was not. Yeah. My momma did tell you. I've been arrestable one hundred times in them. I stopped counting. Yeah. Yeah. So this was just a normal pot of that life, don't make sense that they would fight hottest because there wasn't that same life to disrupt the lies that already being disrupted. So one witness, for example, remembers that it was the straight grain pelton the police with coins. I've mentioned another describe seeing Masha, quite just in the middle of the whole thing's screaming and yelling and throwing rocks. One of the very few photos. We have of the night shows three street, queens, right up in the face of the police. One of them is named Jackie hormone is reaching out his hand to grab a call portal push away the cop. So we have photographs of these people fighting police deliver. Yeah. I and most people do seem to you pronounce. Duckie. Jackie Homer of, yes, a fake name. Seventeenth game style did Jackie by Jackie Homa because he was unknown or did Jackie go by jogging home because he was quite a mask straight grain. Not on moments. And so it was kind of a bit of a joke in that way. So I paid. I don't actually what that's like Queen names now. Play them. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of the straight grain names, like we generally talk about Masha and Sylvia, who have just kind of normal women's names. But a lot of the street grains names, much more, like modern, drag Queen names. Oh, really? So Jackie homeowners. One example, one is cooled Congo. Woman show is conquered the first time in woman. The Senate kind of one thing I'm being really. Komu woman once called miss New Orleans, once czars Nova, which, I don't really know what that means. It's a pretty great name as pretty great. I'm really thinking what hell is people like sixteen? Yeah. Awesome things all kind of like my first, you are L. Email address. Also. And that's probably always from Hungary woman. They also often specific references to that race hunting many other cities ampoules, but we know that Masha, originally went arrived in new by black Masha. So they specifically reference to the fact that, that either black Ola dynamics all that was one. I'm aware of was a station. We never hear about people this. Yeah. No, we never we never do, but I am a win of one and I'm sorry. But I can't remember. Just to get back to what I was saying before about the way that this is framed. And the way that it's kind of an argument about whether or not translate who should be able to the moving won't be as we've said already, they should. And it's a ridiculous question. But it's like it's a specially ridiculous question. Because, you know, in the scenario where transpeople will once we started this double riots, no one would claim that lesbians should be excluded from the absolutely. So why is this only being applied one way transfer be? Yeah. If you are having this debate about who started the riots people saying Masha started the rides she'll then really examining the evidence of what role the stone, lesbian may have played well what role TIMMY, Raymond play because nobody tell me on. Or alice. Any? Thanks cotton. And how you can have a club. Yeah. Yes. So people who highlighting the role of Masha or Sylvia, even if that's not historically accurate on doing it at the expense of the role of say lesbians where people highlighting the role of lesbians so often that's not just oh, probably lesbian started stable. And he is some evidence that it wasn't Masha despite what people are saying, also includes Masha identified as a game, male drag Queen, and therefore, he should not be given credit for the actions of a woman. This is sexism women are being pushed out of movement. It's kind of how very sorry for this comparison that are must move how Donald Trump talks about all the allegations against him where he's like, that's not collusion. But if it was collusion's legal anyway, whereas like Masha didn't do it. But if Masha did do it. Masha, man. Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly how it that's Masha. Masha? You can hear all about it in our episode on Masha. Yes, you can. Yeah. If people part about tell you that Masha Johnson was a man, tell them that she wasn't and they can come fight and we'll fund before you. And you just have enough. One specific thing that I've found often used in these people saying, Marlton, test Brigham beside Mashi, a man is the claim that in the documentary paint and mind, which is by interviews with Masha. She says, and this is usually put in quotes on a man, and this is given so commonly on the as I quote from that documentary, that's not a question that documentary, she never says those words in that documentary, that's just false. So. You have to question. Not even been clever about Haiti trans women. When did you see people saying this fast through the fast break this person three the first punch? Why saying and what else are they bringing to the table? And is it transport because it's probably transferred to the? Yeah. I think it's also important to reiterate here that people who say these things often active movement, is something that trans people currently trying to take away from gay people. Yeah. Not something that they've collaboratively build like literally over century. Yeah. Yeah. And I think when we talk about, like, when I brought up the importance of straight Quainton, the fact that seinfield emphasize, the straight quaint. It's time we'll straight queens. I mean individual streak as group. That's not a gay report. Trans group. Yeah, exactly saying the episode of the Yukon easily up some of these categories into the gay once and the trans ones yet. Neither can you cop who earn stirred. Yeah. Yeah. That always student. Key point made so let's get back to what is actually happening outside the stone will end right now right now. Right. Twenty. Nineteen sixty-nine ahead fifteen. Oh, great. With the. So the crown ten violent for whatever reason people sought to throw coins, maybe will already throwing coins. Stop throwing bottles that was a construction site nearby, which is where you get the comments of people throwing bricks we talked about the molotov cocktails people climbing out of patrol band that being put in because that's one. Cops to keep them in. Book kicking and hitting the police on the way out. At least one was treated for a bite. Get be. So how many cops backup has arrived backup arrived? I think there's a title of ten cops here now. One extra patrolman did arrive at pine cool before the radio dot getting into subject, backups, maybe it's of pined-. Okay. That would have been so terrifying for those calls. Also zero yeah, yeah, they would bury skid and the crowd was still growing. So I mentioned the Craig went and find the papers, but a lot of people's went to pay phone friends either quia friend or friends that I knew from other protest movements told what was going on and get out here because when you were saying that, like it wasn't just quit able starting. Yeah. Crowd based on the historical context that does sound like those just kind of a general protest movement. Yeah. That would pay with other protest movements. And also the village bench villages, just kind of knowing being an anti-establishment place in a bunch of way. Then it's got a history of protest. So people who lived in that area and people who went out in that area hated cops. Yes, they were like, yeah, let's go. Oh boy weekly purchase. What's it about tonight? So I'm actually the patrol when did manage to drive off with some people inside and I have a number and then just ten police remain behind. Okay. One says the cups like someone who'd been bitten by a trusted pet, a look of a staunch -ment and fear at the same time. Remember that? So the police remained took refuge inside the ball and they've barricaded the door. So I had seen active service in World War, Two he'd written the army's manual on hand to hand combat. And he was like, super well nine for keeping his cool under fire. He was trained in judo, and he said, there was never any time that I felt more scared than I felt that. Highness soda fascinate interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Like he feels very much like an anti billable. Yeah the way way you know, obviously, what he's doing is bad. But also like the way you would saying how like his reasons for doing so. Based on his level, Lord, route necessarily purely basil. Which is super interesting. Yeah. He much later on said. So he said, you know, people being arrested because that was the law. More kinda low was that. And he's also said, if I had a role starting the gay rights movement, then I'm glad that the movement started. I mean, I know that's kind of like, Malcolm will take credit for gay marriage. Good capacity. What I'm trying to say. He's an interesting guy, he's not homophobic cop. He has motivations that are not necessarily the ones who expected. It's just interesting. I feel it's probably reflective of history in general. Yeah it's just not as black as we've said several times as. Yeah. We usually think about these kind of historical events. Yeah. That is true. So the police barricaded themselves inside the building. They continue trying to call for backup. And the Coles continued to be intercepted. When I tried to the vase phone, somebody at Cup fine line over who. Yeah. I mean I can see why he was kind of odd. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can't say why he was terrified. I mean, I imagine he thought it was going to dock. Yeah. Yeah. Like crowd sounds like they could just route someone. I think they could have. Yeah, yeah, it would be really interesting to the ice cream. None of these cops, again die. None of this would be interesting to see how we remembered this event. If they just killed those calls that is true. I mean violent riot. But this privately little serious injuries. I mentioned one call. It was treated for another was treated for a broken wrist. One was hit in the eye. Projectile but yeah, that's the worst injuries. The cops gone. Sarah's injuries on the parts of the crowd. I can't remember what happened on what night I know one person lost that thing is from having shot in a police cuddle. Oh, that's the worst that I'm aware of pretty bad. Yeah. So the police inside the ball pulled out guns. Couple of stationed themselves on either side of the door on them saying, we'll shoot the motherfucker comes through that door. It is amazing. It is amazing. No one was killed. Yeah. Absolutely. One of the police. So I met him. They barricade themselves in the ball. They did kind of go into the ball coming out. Go back in a few times, like barricaded it, I'm one of the place during that time did throw they're gone into the crowd because they get, but they didn't find the gone, and I think we're incredibly lucky that they didn't find that also peaked. Gun at five five at him. I don't know if the gone what's loaded when he threw it. But that was gone. It would be likely gun wasn't loaded up. I was gonna say, all, yeah. That's actually a safety. It was on. Yeah. Yeah. Trump holding it could've gone off in eight seven on the crowd. And then I imagined history would have died. Yeah. And then probably the cops. Yeah. I mean, that's something that pine says is I really did not want to shoot. I was very reluctant to give the order to shoot because I knew that if we shot, somebody would die, it would could be it could be us, but somebody would. Yeah. I did present that. Yeah. He says, I didn't think this was a law worth dying open killing. Okay. That's look that it wasn't disturbed rapidly called make an example, what quit people? Yeah. And physically was going around age of the cops in the ball and talk to them individually. And so. Yeah, how you doing IRA k during shoot if you shoot this will be the end of Korea. So that is very interesting. So, yeah, pine deliberately did this back consciously? Yes. Pine a line. Not anymore. Okay. Yeah. I was about say to me, say. Yeah. So I mean at the time of the riots must have been like forties. Yeah. I think even his forty. Yeah. But he has talked a lot about Stein will and you can read a lot of what he said, and it's interesting outside. This was when people saw throwing molotov cocktails people up ten bins dot allotting Robertson, fire sticking it through whatever cracks. They could find the windows onto the door. Whatever led by miss New Orleans on the street queens. I've mentioned they pulled up a parking Mehta and using battering ram to try and break down the tool. That's gone. How it does. One pulled off of it is mentioned that it wasn't a very securely all the dodgy, Ponting Mehta by George. Let's just my book. I threw it was one hasn't. He mentioned that says we saw miss New Orleans go and start trying to pull up a parking. We don't do that by a self and a group of them when I have a helper, and then they go to the ground. Trying to better down the door. I've actually inside a policewoman was able to leave the Baath who event in the back down to the roof. Get down to the next and coal from payphone for backup. Okay. Yep. Generalists. How it Smith who was inside the with the police, very luckily process. The story says pine tells me later, he didn't shoot because he'd heard the sirens in time and felt ninety to kill someone. If help was arriving. Also, that's like the history of life. Yeah. So that, that policewoman go through a vent. Yup. Yeah. And the fact that backup came xactly when it did. And I don't five minutes lights on the fact that they could hear the backup like what it up place, a crowd outside. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so many little moments as the reasoning be historical event like this. Yeah. So many little moments where could go and so different. So back bribed in the form of first fiber gate, because that was, I could get there, then all the local police forces. And then, eventually that t- PF, which is the tactical patrol force or the riot. Arkham. Okay to that clubs and shields and tear gas veteran activist Colo who is that says, I have been in enough riots. Fun was over these guys helmets and lived to break heads. Back to the TV I've turned up and the right has treated, what the TV I didn't expect. They run around the block popped up on the other side of them started advancing again. Oh my God. Wow. And they repeated several times every time the TV of two hundred and forced into retreat. They just reappear on the other side. That's very intense super community. Come sorry. It's very, it's very hill. Kill factor that people who would bring up, so on top of that restrict queens in schedule a mountain boys study, Rivera, and one other who I don't know, by name formed, a chorus line thought doing high kicks in the face of these advancing riot, police, and singing scarring, the same stunk the following night, one witness says the Quainton did not move. They just continued to kick and to sing the police just move closer and closer and closer and you just wonder how long are they going to keep this up before they break and rotten the police closer and closer treat them with their clubs and the helmets and riot gear and the whole thing. And I thought it was very inspiring bravery, like don't fire until you see the whites of the is it wasn't until the police eight feet away from the finally Rehn. This whole thing is sewer like serious. Absurd. Like very serious, very frightening. But also with Vinny era of absurd. And a lot of style is just like the most oftentimes within possible in the world and people did mention that facing down against the riot. Police who like fully on they in like vermin style felons with this shields. Three kids in type pants and make out with tease head doing a kick line. Totally ruins demented. The riot police Colleen club to fight them. So this kind of camp way of fighting back and the humorous things they did gave power to the riots. Yeah. That's super interesting. And there is one person. I can't remember who it is going down who became in bold inquiry, activism, off to this. And he says the reason is he saw that chorus line in the face of the riot police, and that made him realize that his sexuality was something worth fighting for. That's so good. So at about four AM the crowd did eventually dispersed that I find this is the police winning. They find this like. We go to Iran. And people did hang around on the street kind of told him about what had happened what it meant and all that kind of stuff. They learn driven away this kind of stopped thirteen people arrested that. So that was Friday night by Saturday morning. It's like most people in New York had already had about what had happened. That's thanks in part to Craig who as mentioned had the now st- phone, everyone crying, Clooney types, bloody hero. Love crash trueblue here story. So as a gay, man naturally chip economy, also credits, what he calls Queen control, getting the news out, so Queen controls kind of quit telephone tree web, I quite people would call you often this is Queen control coal, and you didn't even off to it was, and they would just stop giving you information. As the suicide, how unfortunately I don't have many people told me about this. But it's very cool as great as it is. Visit that day that Saturday protest signs already started appearing outside Stein. We will say things like support gave Howard. I feel like Greg was involved. In the evening crowds together outside the again chanting slogans, like gay pow again and Christopher straight belongs to queens and things like this. My crepe senses, kindling. Yeah. This was already huge bright from previous quia behavior in New York, just being out on the street and visibly gay, not little bot- you had to get in through a Colo, whatever was already so different, how people had been paving as the evening on the events on Saturday largely pull it the patent of the previous night. So people to throw things and set fires. The police ton violent Masha is mentioned, climbing lamppost and dropping a heavy bag through the windscreen of a police car which had cops inside. Saturday night I rolled is talked about, as being more violent than Ryan ice from the police side and the right side. How impressive is it to climb a limp posed holding a heavy bag that can pull these? Yeah, that's true. And then consider the logistics of that. But like several of us is mentioned totally that Masha was Jack. Fact. Chorus fact, breaking news, you told Nahmad, maybe actual definitely jazz. Yes. Once again, around two AM, the teepee f- arrived on the crowd dispose. The crowd dispersed. They didn't similar things to they had the previous night. They eventually dispersed Sunday on the end tonight to a comparatively quiet. It wasn't the weekend anymore. It rained. Black, that on Wednesday the Greenwich newspaper, the village voice published to Oskoui's about the riots one written by Howard Smith, who I mentioned was inside the ball with the co. Yes, by entrust, who was outside in the crowd, trust the particular quite homophobic. And this kind of reignited enga, and sorry, people turned out again on Wednesday night and. Again. A patent previous nights. This was the final night of the stone will. Okay. So now we're gonna talk a little bit about the the cautions Stein. We'll why wise considered so important. I don't have time to go as in depth into this as I would like to. I'm going to talk about these things. One is the foundation of the gay Liberation Front, the foundation of Christopher street liberation day, which became pride on that right episode. So I just want to knowledge that there's a lot of things that I didn't have time to discuss starting with the gay racing front. Boeing will Mattachine society how the public meeting to organize Big Joe to commemorate stone. We'll they wanted this to a silent vigil because that was about as out there. It's not Shane was willing to be convenient like was wearing a Brown suit got them in front of the crowd. And he explained that the gay community had to retain the pair of the establishment in order to be accepted, so on. Response man named Jim who already had experience in all the protests movements suit up and yell. We don't want to accept God damnit we want respect. We're going to go west rates go and did anything with each other that they do if they don't like it fuck them. Got up time. So that was met with wild with Louis, the major had to bring. Yeah. Do you know read the room? Yeah, that's pretty indicative of the change in attitudes and the conflict that was caused in the movement by this new idea that came out of that you could fight back against the establishment that you could be out on the streets saying, you acquai- and be proud of that, and Dimond that people respect for that. And that the quip should fuller in the footsteps of. Yeah. Patch now like Black Panthers all the antiwar movement in violently fighting by whatever means necessary for what that wanted to try to actively take up space rather than trying to feed into whatever little space. They might be allowed to have. I will that the vigil did go ahead. Wasn't a silent vigil in the but it did go ahead onto Lhasa. Yes. So is almost a year before the first pride. I want to mention around five hundred people led by Monte, Robinson and Mafa Shelley who members of the match Shane action committee marched to Stein stopped, outside, they send we shall ever come, and this is the first I can lead gay March on the US as each coast, the village voice reported on, and they were, maybe it wasn't just, like, maybe that really was gay power. Ultimately, these new dissident voices like Malta and Mati and GM a whole lot of others. Some who already in matching some who are not. Two new group which was called the gay Liberation Front. I'm gonna have. No. I don't have time show. Grab this in depth that this was a largely once again, middle class white ses males -ociety nonetheless to the jail apart from previous groups, most of all it wasn't sacred of about what it was obviously gay is right there in the name and the village voice to be allowed to publicly advertise. So the village voice didn't want the word gay in its paper, despite the fact that it was willing to publish a whole, oh, slows in Trawscoed sauce. Cool. The four and eventually won against the village voice to be allowed to advertise that they were gay society paper. Secondly, the was revolutionary organization and I don't mean revolutionary in terms of bringing you things have been done before. I mean revolution many times one to the government. So they had no interest in feeding into the establishment or finding a place that would give them they ultimately wanted to put an end to the system. And they teamed up, I mentioned, antiwar activists Black Panthers and all kinds of similar revolutionary anti-establishment groups to achieve those goals. So those two new things the jail left brought to the Queen movement. What makes it so important? And the fact that starring wall kind of spot, it's Dacian is one of the things that makes important entreprise into line nineteen sixty nine Cray, conceived, the idea of Christopher street liberation day. Craig. We stand one bracket. One craig. This is shadow to Craik very clear. Feelings about critic. Craig, let's not researching. A hobby. Some dude who talk back to cops, but he's so important, his good man. So he came up with the idea of an annual event to commemorate the stonewall riots. So that had previously been an annual of bent hell in Philadelphia called the annual remind which was a protest designed to keep the awareness in the public minds that there were gay people. They did not have rights and the annual remind had being framed within that kind of respectability conservative image. That was the thing and the game at the time, so people at the annual remind men to suits to wear dresses, tides you wanna laugh hold hands. These ruled on by the que- organizes yet, and Craig on his way back from the loss, annual remind the which took place July that it's nine nine. We need a new annual event that feats the new movement and fits what we stand for now, which is not this is the committee to on Christmas. Liberation day consciously made up that committee of representatives from a variety of different quit groups. He didn't want it to be at been that was run by one group. They met regulating Craig department that very theory. So they're belied donations and things like free graphic design work, the jail tritter Mati Nixon did a lot of sneaky photocopying at work to get the photocopying is a tradition of activism. Yup. So fast Christopher street liberation day took place on June twenty eighth nineteen seventeen. A few hundred people were present when the March was set to begin they will all terrify pretty much gay fire. Dr Wilson remember the friend saying to him on the way that I've never been so scared in my life and Dora funded, please. Let them be more than ten of us. The weather. That was several hundred at first, it was one hundred of them more about it. So they turned down. And the had signs that said, things like bench ablation than latent, and my favorite chant, which goes her her sexual the ruin clauses. Ineffectual. Great back. Willing calls from individual. Section. So, yeah. A few hundred people at the start. But there are many more quickly will watching from the football who were first to get to join graduates. The March went on. They got the courage to join in ultimately estimates at the time, put the total number at about two thousand people. That's great. That's awesome. Full like that's a huge deal given we were talking tools Assadi upset about the membership of Madison Shan. Yes. Five years. Earlier, Randy and Craig and a few others. That organized what I think is the first guy protests on the east coast America, but I could be even and eight people to end up. Oh, well, one was a baby so seven people. A five. Yeah. Like such hostility faithful. Yeah. Good on seventy not forget about the bay kudos to that baby girl a hurt that baby grew up to be a proud adult as well as straight liberation day, symbol, tiniest machos, how few US cities by the next year, these mantras it also spread to London and Paris and out of this today's pride celebrations, which have been celebrated on every continent, including taco, and which millions of people now participate in the fact that it went from reminded to pride is sort of, like all the nurse in terms of being transition between respectability politics, movement to that's mall. Yeah. Anti-establishment. Like if you put that individual level, I would probably be like us on the dark. On the, those a lot to be said about the change from Christopher street liberation day to prize. But that's for another episode. Now pride is celebrated across the world. Yeah, it is. So I just want to conclude by saying that Walstein won't didn't stop the queer rights movement. And we've talked a little bit about what then involved beforehand, we can't deny that it did change it, and many people that they could be proud of that queer identity, and that they shouldn't, and they didn't have to force themselves into socially acceptable boxes and off the establishment nicely if they wanted to human rights to quite the former St. green Tomi, lamb Schmidt, don't ever think that if annoy story, mole that will be just like it is now, histories and something that you look back at and say, oh, that's inevitable that would have happened. Anyway, not happens because people make decisions and I just want to emphasize as we end that the people who made these decisions came from all walks of the community, and all of them sharing this pot of Queen history and in many ways that's want Maidstone. We'll so important. With that wave being fat. Thank you very much for listening. I'm Alice on Jason. I may lie it to enjoy this absurd you can find us on social media on Facebook, Twitter, and tumble, and we'll be putting a lot of extra content on social media this month for pride month. So I definitely encourage you to follow us online platforms if you doing already where queer as fact on all the foams, you can also contact us directly at Chris back at Jamie dot com, and you can find the restaurant swords on Bain on itunes or wherever you get your podcast. If you do find us on itunes, we really appreciate it. If you would write us, leave us our review because I really helps us to reach a wider audience. But also very excited that we now have a patron and a red bubble stool. So if you've been looking for ways to support queer as fact beyond telling you friends, how great will, I'd encourage you to sponsor us on out patriot what to buy some much on the store, and you'll be able to find links to both of those in the description. As well as on social media. We'll be back on the eighth of June. Where will we talking about Gilbert bak- and the creation of the pride flag? Thanks for listening, and we'll see you then.

Craig Rodwell stonewall Danny Stein New York United States quia Masha Johnson queens Randy Madison Harvey milk Jason harassment solicitation BIA USA. Ron Tim Madison society Mattachine society
Whose Line Is It Anyway: Bachelor Nation Edition

Bachelor Happy Hour with Rachel & Ali – The Official Bachelor Podcast

1:07:46 hr | 4 months ago

Whose Line Is It Anyway: Bachelor Nation Edition

"Welcome back is weird cited another great episode for you today we are finally done Aaron, bachelors the greatest seasons ever and. While it was a good time to relive all those amazing memories and check in with the old friends. Happy. It's over. And I'll tell you why because. No say 'cause I know what you guys are. GonNa say I know what you're going to take that comment as here we out here if you're familiar with the bachelor world, then you know when one good thing comes to an end something new and great is right around the corner. Now you know this franchise never leaves it's fans without something. Dare I say it dramatic to look forward to so if you're saying goodbye to bachelors the greatest seasons ever that means we're starting to count down to the upcoming season of the Bachelorette and yes, you can hear them voice we are frequent excited about it because honestly I don't know how it's going to play out. Yes exactly. I mean you said it Bazan in this franchise the end of season it's always of course bittersweet but. On one hand when journey ends another begins and so that is coming to us all very soon and you know, dare I say it Chris? Harrison every every year here says it's going to be the most dramatic season ever. I have a feeling that just might be the case with the upcoming season of the Bachelorette. Now, whether you're in the bachelor world, you've probably heard all these insane rumors going around about the upcoming season and believe us. We're also just as curious as you all are and more than ever. We're just excited for the sink to start by. been great to go down Memory Lane and recap some of the old seasons. But there's nothing like I don't even want to say like new fresh meat, but there's nothing like new season to get started especially after this crazier that we've been having in quarantine. So it's going to give us something to look forward to and an honor of the upcoming season. We wanted to do something a little bit different and very fun leading up to the premiere. If your in need of some new second, he has look no further because we've partnered with perfect snacks and sharing some of our favorite goto refrigerated snacks base from freshly ground nut butter organic honey ant twenty organic superfoods. Perfect snacks has a variety of products like protein bars, peanut butter cups, and even kids snack bars. The protein bars have a cookie dough like texture that's screaming and full of flavor and the peanut butter cups are stored in the fridge too. So they're always chilled with the perfect snap of real chocolate coating. They have a variety of flavors like coconut, peanut, butter, almond butter, mocha chip, blueberry cashew, and the list goes on and on but. I go for anything with peanut butter, which is why my go-to flavor is the dark chocolate peanut butter and don't worry just because there's sort of the fridge doesn't mean they aren't perfect for before or after workout or while you're just taking a nice drive and listening to us on Bachelor happy hour now perfect snacks is offering fifteen percent off of your online order just head to perfect snacks dot com slash bachelor shut their refrigerated snacks at perfect snacks dot com slash bachelor today, and get fifteen percent off of your order we want you to be prepared for snack time. So just too perfect snacks stop slash bachelor to stock up and save fifteen percent. I liked it. You said. I think that's Because, that is what it is. It is. It's like you knew what was like we're on high school. Let's be honest people act like it's high school sometimes, and we've got like the new class coming in what are they gonNA look like how are they going to be? What are the personality is going to be like? Are we GONNA like them? Are we to you know I mean it's just so much and BIA's and I feel like it's not just us inside ambassador nations viewers as well like who are we getting? We're waiting at the edge of our seats to find out who these characters art. Yes. I characters because truly that that's that's what it is. On this show we've had such a blast we connecting with some Bachelorette oh, like the one and only Trista we've had diatta our girl. So we thought why not keep trying to power for women chugging along right. So it answers the patient of the new season. Over the next few weeks, we will be inviting some of the most cherished Bachelorette's onto the podcast to celebrate the show and to get US pumped up for what's to come. And I feel I have a feeling that there's a be so much to come. But in the meantime for today's episode, we're going to shake things up a little bit and actually rewind if you will So Rachel and I are going to be playing a fun game that we've never played before it's going to be called whose line is it anyways but bachelor bachelorette edition and we can't wait because both richland I have invited some surprise guests to join in on the fun today Yes. They will be a surprise for both of us will explain it in just a few minutes but the twist here is that we have no idea who the other person has invited. So I'm a little nervous but I trust you Rachel I think it's going to be very fun. You shouldn't try. This makes me really nervous backup right now. That I could get off I mean because we are serving a new season but we are still taking this walk down memory lane I think it'd be. Fun. To go over some of the past contestants because obviously there's not a paradise filming right now we don't know when that's going to come. So an honor of old guests if there were to be a Paradise Rachel, who are, let's give you three who are three contestants that you would want to see on the next season Paradise Oh my gosh that's a really good question back and I feel like so many people are booed up right now. So. Many how and relationships I? Guess. I guess in the spirit of talking about fresh meat I should start with Peter Season. Southern name person number one I gotta go by girl. Natasha Natasha is my girl I. Adore her we we saw a lot of her and I think America fell in love with her but she didn't come to women tell all. And I feel like she's there's a lot of depth to her and she's not a part of the drama and she really is just like love light energy acting she thrive on Paradise I selfishly WanNa see her more and I also wanted to find love. So I shot. Touches a good one on. Also going off Peter Susan. I have to go with Tammy because she made me laugh lake. Her facial expressions that she would do? She was just so animated she said it like it was like she you know there was some drama between her and some of the girls, but she was entertaining and so I would wanNA see Tammy on paradise on the big screen I mean selfishly just like so i. can enjoy it watching it on us. I'm sorry I'm all for candy like. You. She watching it. She was a shoe it a UN prepared is. Percents. Okay. So Hansie said that was the last season of the Bachelorette. So what guy would I picked from Hannah's season. God. Oh I would pick dustin. Oh. Like I. Have learned a lot more of him because of Kellyanne Peter Right. So there is this interest in him to fix the best friends with Peter. He was obviously near the start of their relationship. He was a loyal friend he kept it a secret. So I just know like he's unattractive guy seems to have a really outgoing personality and I think that. It would be he he and I feel like he would be one man to take a little bit more seriously and not just go to lake caused drama and entertainment, but he would actually be there. I think to find a partner Yeah and I mean, we had it well, I shouldn't say we had him on the podcast. She was a little guest on the side when we spoke with Peter and Kelly so i. I would be all for that. I'm trying to think like I just have a really bad memory apparently because I'm trying to rack my brain of other men on Ham Susan thing when Molinari yeah I'm thinking of people like I actually talked to. Yeah, we're impacted. Look. The only one that really stands out to me to on him season was j p j just because he was like show loud and such a character and we obviously already saw Paradise Making the people on for it. Oh Rachel I got last person I know I. Know WHO WOULD BE GRANDMA HONEY Don't -magine. Would if grandma plenty was on Susan of Paradise I would go and I would be like I would be whatever she needed me to be I would order her food packed for begs I would say on her on the beach help her pick out her Whatever she needs. I would be there for it off for this. I know offense to wells maybe could him give him another position? So you don't have to completely eliminate him from from paradise just imagine grandma honey sitting at that bar. Imagine grimm honey porn you drink and you getting advice as she's giving. Can you imagine we what about this? Picture this setup. Okay. So we have the bar in paradise wells can still be the bartender. We have grandma honey. Sit In this. Nice. Like recliner thrown next to the bar where people can go and like. She'll just be drinking but giving advice and like answering questions and when people are having a rough time, they just go and sit with her for a little bit I. Love It. Does happen I at least we can bring what's her name from winner gangs who flew half a century a Yuki alway from the country get grandma hunting. I need her to have a fully air conditioned. Hutto like won't. Like we need A, we need to get the best Okay. How do I talk grandma honey you don't I guess. I would just want one of my friends to be there. So I could have a plant like a spot. Full detail and Paradise. That's so I mean I'm looking at my friends that are single at this point. The only one that's is Christina. So I nominate Christine ago and tell me everything that happens busier. Time everything grandma honey I can't talk. That's it got. Everyone listening. We Count in Paradise. I would tune in for that but she would need to be a staple like in every season I. Think Beca I'd love these episodes so much because it's it's S We have this love hate relationship with the show. There's so many great things to love about it, and of course, like you know you gotta take the good and the bad things but I love going down memory lane with these episodes because just gives us a chance to reminisce and to think about the good times and then also it's fun for like our listeners to go back with us as well. But you. Know we'RE GONNA, go down memory lane that means we have to acknowledge not just the park and you played in our season but we have to reminisce about all those incredible guys that made our seasons, what they were at. That's that's the good bad and ugly member love. Hey, right. Got To go to the bad here I offering some of the guys from our seasons of the Bachelorette back can I decided to invite. Friends to test our memories in a little game back on I both loved growing up call whose line is it anyways but we're GonNa do the bachelor in addition of it. So for somebody who loves interacting with other people and I love to typically be surrounded by my friends and family. It's been extra hard to stay in. And distill socially distance. Luckily, I have best fiends that offers a fun way to still socially distance from people, but also offers a little healthy competition with my friends, best jeans as a unique and exciting puzzle experience unlike any other puzzle games out there and with more than one hundred million downloads, you probably have more friends planet than you ever actually realized they update the game monthly with new levels in events. So it never gets old and best fiends treats the game like a service for their players, the more I play. The more funny gets, which is great because it just makes me WANNA keep on plane and they love the new monthly themed challenges. Best fans has thousands of levels already with new levels, events and characters added each and every month. 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We don't want to go for that run. We miss our atom Yoga class where humid. But if you forget to exercise for a day or run out of time, there's no being numerous offers tips to help you get right back on track over eighty percent of numerous finished the program and over sixty percent have stuck with their goals for at least a year there's a science getting healthier and it's called new. So sign up today for your trial at. NEUM. That's an AAn. Dot Com slash be age age, and what do you have to lose nothing? We have extra time these days. So just give it a go visit neum dot com slash H to start your trial today again, that's new N.. Dot Com. SLASH BE H H. So in honor and some of the guys from are quieter. So honoring the guys who are season of the Bachelorette Beckon I. Well, we decided to a by some of our old friends to test our memories in a game a classic game, a game both were fans of growing up whose line is it anyways. Outweigh. I I have to emphasise with a little bit nervous just obviously because I don't know who you invite it very interesting but basically, here's how this is going to work. So I have invited to anonymous guests for Rachel season and vice versa. So she invited guests for macy's, and now we have no idea who the other is bringing on but each of the guests has to prepared lines that they're going to have to recite. I'm just GONNA go ahead and close my eyes because like I don't want to see any names pop screen but basically once they call in, they will recite these lines to us, and then we're going to have two chances to guess who it is based solely upon their lovely voices and you know our members or fund memories of these men hopefully their funds I I still like, yeah, I was going to be this I. I shouldn't say I'm nervous because I feel like and you mentioned this too I feel like we both get along pretty well with most of the guys I wore nervous if like. that. Were earlier on and I'm like I. Say you home night one like the first week and I don't remember. But hopefully, that's not the case So you know I'm not very good. Games in general so we're going to. Shot. And like I said, we each have a couple of chances to guess it right. So fingers crossed Rachel. Yeah. No I think we're GONNA knock this out of the park. I'm. Not GonNa be cruel to you an invite somebody on that. I like I would remember you know what I mean like I think. You. Guys. So I feel like without. They don't want to not know who they are. It's so fun once. So without further ado, let's go ahead and get this game started and we're going to serve guests the I guess that I brought along Rebecca. So I'm excited to go ahead and respect close those is guests number one, please join chat. Are you ready I around me so fast? So, this is this is really cute. Okay. Guess Number One please recite your first line for Becca. I forgot everything I was going to say. What the fought. I know it is, but I just want you to read the second line. So I can hear your voice. Okay guess no one he please recite your second line for backup. I sure could I know my fruits and vegetables I know tomatoes really good. Lehman Nassau. So lucky. Yeah. Yes, I did say interested correct. Okay, you're correct. Your camera. Turn. Herons. Crazy the best I was nervous to every time about the talk Becca I get. Nervous it's crazy. I was really hoping it was gonna be you and I really wanted you to say something about Mellon's because I think in your intro package, you were talking about malaise. I sit tomatoes are really good. That's. What I came up with. My first conversation with you I was like, yeah you know I saw Mellon's you like, what do you mean like I don't know. I was so. I had no idea that you were like grocery store owners who? Sell melons. Like at farmer's market like outside of your home, where do you sell these melons? Kind of melons I had so many questions but you try. To give them a chance. At all. That was produce. Okay. Are you you been paid. About what's going on inside Rachel? And what else did I say that? I forget I'm so what's going out with me? I did I forgot everything was so embarrassing I'm still kind of nervous. I'm nervous when I talked to you how weird is that? Well, yes because. I've seen you, I don't know if anyone listening this isn't a surprise because we posted on instagram but like after my season was done filming I ran into you in Chicago Jew who were with your cousin or something and my sister, and I were walking out of some bloomingdale's bathroom and we ran into each other because you were going to paradise the next day. Yeah I saw it was crazy. Well, I'm like holy fuck that's. No it wasn't. It was the weirdest thing. Thought it was. No. We were like wedding dress shopping for my sister. She really had a p and so we went into a bloomingdale's and then outcomes Joe with like. I think you had watermelon swim trunks for Paradise Your water votes from. Mellon. Still. I still live by. Very. High. Brand. How bad? Good, I'm good. I'm just living in Chicago now I move that Al.. Wife's good. I means do we could this climate right remain laser crazy. Film videos, shooting videos I know I'm jealous every time I watch those I wanted him I love how you like rate the restaurants in the food, and that's my dream job in life I may look really good. Yeah I mean I would isolate the food you sold me. Those are good. Joe I know that was short-lived but what? What is one of your favorite? Memories for my season. I mean, yeah back was fucking short-lived. You kicked me off the first night I mean I don't even know I think America fell in love with you. I would say. When I got the opportunity to speak to you after I just. Destroyed my opening was probably the highlight because I get a second chance and then I thought that. You did not straight. It was just it's a weird first sight. There's so many people in conversations and it's lay then it's hard to remember things but but you know what? Had maybe not send you home night one America fell in love with you in those like few moments and so you went with the stars on. Paradise on. BECA I'm okay. You don't use. You had stayed another night. It would've gone completely differ for you Yeah I've PROB- probably would heated. Way I be like if you had gone home like second minor, the third it wouldn't have had the same that went on the first people like what the hell is this they have like a little sampling of you and wanted more. Yeah I know what I say I. Don't think anyone's ever going to be able to do it. They will. You I mean we touched on all of the cool things that you've done since the season. But what are you up to these days anything fund that we can expect to see more of you in oh? Yeah. This fall I'll be joining the bachelor family with a new podcast. Excited about. Yes. It was so excited I can't I can't give too much details girls, but I have to co hosts none of us are like. It's it is a random ass grew I. think we're GONNA. Have A. Lot of fun it's going to be entertaining. It's GONNA be sexy. Interesting and it. Is it Cohen I don't know if I could say that but I wouldn't do woman. is going to be good. Looking down as it, you'RE GONNA be. They can't wait. So congratulations and America you will see and hear more of Joe Very soon. So I think the ladies are going to be ready. You're going to hear this Chicago accent. My voice is still on. I thought you guys your voice like that's what I. Okay, he's going to disguise it. You came in Hot Mike. She's GonNa know who the Hell sharpy. I could probably disguise it how. Taboo. Yeah. The tomato line in in an accent. I Know My. I. Just saw the. Fire can only sleep. Guys. That was twelve years. Old Is all right there. The Limo like that I mean. I. I want like another chances going on the Bachelorette I really WANNA walk. No. I could vary. That's that's true. It's true. You do not want to put that mansion living in a bump ban on top of another. Don't want to do that. You didn't experience that you don't want to do it. Hard have a good catering like one in John it was great. But yeah, it's Now. Don't don't. Fair sure I'll just join the. To Talking to you gotTa let you go. It's so good to see you love. Love the Hydra. Two cubic on. Face you know what? I was GONNA get it trimmed up I'm getting a trimmed up. Wednesday but you know. Like his. If. You and still on braiding it. Yes. By I was so glad that you. Really Hoping, Joe would be one of the guys. I'm not here to upset you. Okay. So now are you ready for your second guess again? Okay. Or did we get our Jeddah? We. Got It out. We're getting. Closer, is just in case. Okay. Now I'm bringing you on gas number two. Number two, could you please join the conversation? And guests number two, can you please site your line? There's a lot of juice dudes in the house with think pipes monster chess they walk like their jerry infrequent luggage scared shitless. You guys. Trying to skies your it's We. Should take people was more disguised. I was hoping I. Okay. So I just had Joel before it. I was hoping it was going to be you to and what was the thing you always used to say like buffalo saying that you will ramp up guys with. Wheels also. Another were you encountered it down and it was like Oh. Why not? Why am I blinking? It was like it was like. It was like the buffalo saying it was like some guy or some wrestlers something everything is going well, everything is going well here. Just Kardashian ready for La Jalen and I will be there for I. Don't know. How. You'll be there for a while we're going to be encouraging people to call. We're going to be blowing up our phones. Yeah. Like we're all in on CAITLIN. You there is nothing stronger than that. You. got. Forty AIDS. Full, disclosure, Act Jason We talked a a few nights ago actually with Caitlin got the dogs together and. So you're coming out to la you're bringing Pino corrects. So the fans go west coast. His first flight ever who are you GonNa? Buy To. See. Andrew. You. So restless right so we give them one or two. They'll be fine but then. He does he's like doing. Just like. Everyone but he is. He's always restless need other dogs or he's been around dogs his whole life when he was in foster and everything. So what he's by himself, he's like the press or miss it. That's how I know is too. I feel like every day I look at her and I'm like Oh my God I'm such a bad mom for bringing you all over the country like she needs she needs piano and Rahman in her life. So get here soon. I ask Joe this too but I selfishly have to ask what was one of your favorite moments from my season. Okay let's do a one NAS. Oh, favorite Momma, and then one. Little Bit. One Knox. Larry there. No you. After we Guys are in the house in two hundred get a day was learning to walk in I. See all these Masters Ralph reconciling. Cock is already dropped now. My Guy Erie, Straw law I watched your season back and then we are your friends somewhere. Oh my God there's. A general only to later Excited about it. Member juries, you remembered wills. You're a member of their chicken Guy Dude. I'm doing. Because you came right after I introduce Colton, MTO is there and as very frazzled. It had nothing to do with anything other than the fact that I was like, Oh, this guy potentially dating used to date one of my friends. But. Not, you're going to say when you shift your tooth. Toothless another run. The whole no, no and we. Union cards. By two year schickel. Whole thing. So the rest of the night I Out of the side of my mouth I. King surprise you just in self eliminate. Just too many. I would be like you know what? This is a side of about but he When you chipped your tooth like. The chicken wing eating you even. I mean, smile. Winning by teeth I was like, no, you look great and then five minutes later you're like Becca how chipped tooth Telling me. I had a full tooth missing. was reaction and sign then going by. Designing. Something here he's hell and he goes. Oh But you can never tell. It was hidden very nicely. You spoke out of the side of your mouth it was a good cover up. ZILLIONS freaking. Game. Role models out. Get was when Jordan is going off. You know you're in the back it was one of our dates like three years that night and Jordan Zora seriously about his tender sluts hundred percent percentage. And I, I was like this has gotta be a joke like someone's this guy job at weird like that is linked to soon. Outlandish and he's just himself Generale. Nasty. But to me. Wills on. Index. A Oh. Yeah. Remember I was like I was trying to the mass to the ratio that he was giving us that I think is don with you and I was like, does this make sense? Like is this possible? Jordan distorted and And that's what everyone. Favorites. He's so funny and they're like, oh, he's just a characteristic. That is who he is like yeah. You got to keep it like that around. Yeah. He's just endearing that way. Because I than you going to La Family. It seems like everybody's making the West Coast Move Jason going to be in La to in the next ten days as well. So I'll be there for what else is up with you. What are you going on these days? What am I biggest. Rogers started certain April there was playing. Look Twenty million people were unemployed consumer debt rates are control fourteen trillion dollars that rigs riot-control I started. This hoping restart is all the lessons you just can't learn salon. So we're doing financial consulting. It'll never share Niger signed a two book series with Harpercollins inviting and essentially. Gas Too. So it's all from tactful soft, which is like. which is so recall in the World Wetlands Day. So. We. Really knew. and. Winning we start cast people like this show I'm confused. I decided we've noticed butter. Comes out today actually could check it out inside this shit you need to know going into this just about like. What's going on the market? Who's hiring firing of what's going on? Just like you know nobody asked just things Yano your. People sign up to get this newsletter. Yes. So he joins you are under store reset insurance page all. Linked to newsletter. So it's Right now all may I mean like legit. Had before I forget and. Jason Awesome I, feel like I mean you've always had such a good work ethic and so much point for you that I'm not surprised. I will say you like the even the beginning of quarantine you relate to near. Videos like how to save some money and how to call and like have conversations of people to like. Get money from subscriptions back and it. It was so useful and I think a lot of you're like my friends from back home that watched you and follow you. Took some notes for me. It was. It was great. So this is so good everyone sign up restart underscore reset. Okay. Awesome. Jason it was so good to catch up with you. Let us. So when you're in La, we'll dogs together. We'll, of course, be cheering Caitlin on when she begins her dancing you'd have to practice with her. Have you been practicing with her when you guys were still together? I mean the first time we date, I remember dancing. We drank a little bit was like in my hand like doing. Or not dead wasted a debt our out. So I, have trust that I could. Blow job. In the residence, it'll be fun while the big time but. You around. ACETATE names of Sunda Washy guys I'll. See. You soon. If you throw somebody on a bunch of different mattresses sure they'll all look alike and the same probably goes through pillows. 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So that was awesome was so good to see both of them but now it is my turn to have my guests on for you and so Rachel closer is. Because we're. Is Good to you? To me so mean you'll love this I. It's it's going to be good. So those are is because we have guests number three, joined the chat if you will and guess number three, please recite your line. Never have ever done anything this bursts in front of a large group of people. But it's all about the effort. Guess GUYS CAN I. Talk. Can I get a second wind please? Yes. Let's get the second line. Many to go another good day day itself because I wanNA WANNA one. Man This is motion roller. Coaster for your boy. Deadly, disguise. The the. Second. Guy. I'm Otieno rollercoaster they WANNA one on Wednesday. Becca be anyone should we do it without the disguise way? Say don't say the first State stated first line again. Never. Have I ever done anything this embarrassing in front of Large Group of people. But it's all about to ask her. Okay. My guess is. Can we show the face? Can I say? Bring. Him. On. stews disguise queuing me. Totally against it, I was like I was like one of the guest is going to be aired within when I heard that I'm like no. US Oh well. You're coming out of there was like wait. Do we have the right guy call right now? Talk to me like that. You. Know. What's going on happy out You know. Right what's new Hobby Ben I've been great life has great working on me working at work. Living Learning. Staying grounded and gratitude just just. Just. Thankful. Anybody can stay up in positive. You know what I mean like it's it's definitely you because I know this is rough for everybody right now but you were always the most positive person on the season like asthmatic Eric, how're you? Like how you doing how? I was like, wow thank you for checking in on being. Nothing. Nothing stairs. Just you know. I think what's most important is that an times of difficulty adversity this is what you find yourself your true self your higher self because always say you really get to see a person is when they hit efforts, everyone can be good when it got money well, and they're happy and things go on for now but let something get hard tough and challenging. which really get to see from people in yourself. So like I said you know my background upbringing it was challenging coming enough. So when things get off I'm actually gone. It was thank for on VACC- off 'cause UTI. Balanced. So I can kinda decipher. Be Myself thin triggered things out have peace about it. Yeah I I feel like it was nothing else. That's twenty twenty teaching us and for those of you listening who you can't see Rachel and I can see Eric Right now and even just like the way that you talk in your body language, it's so exuberant and positive and I feel like every time I've been around do you just radiate that and it's a really cool special thing also, I will say between the two of you have never learned more about at. Any any ANAGRAM numbers? I'm. GonNa. Need a call you both for this and get all the details because I need to know everything. There is to know about what my life path number eight means. Yes. When you grow you know that's the most important thing to figure out as you suck the send your life yeah. Eric. So since we're taking a quick walk down Memory Lane and we have you here I need to ask you what was your favorite moments from Rachel season. Pan so many great moments. I would say Copenhagen that was the one I mean bully in coatings. Copenhagen was by using a Jacuzzi in the middle of nowhere. Champagne on by way they didn't. They didn't record my Lila Rachel Laugh and I say, are you bilingual? She said no, are you like your? She's like, what do you speak a said body language. Sunday. Yes. That was a moment. Copenhagen that was a phenomenal day and even like going to the amusement park take. I love to be a kid again and then like Eric was afraid of heights like he said just have that moment at the amusement park it was a it was phenomenal. The Okay Eric, remember. We got out of the car and we were about to go in and there was some car plan. Biggie wasn't a big issue. Right every rabid right. I just. Thought about that. So that moment yes we were like five Jaman. Sorry Brian. That was won by i. absolutely loved that day Koci at air had such great energy coming in. I was in a boat and he was walking across the bridge and already shouted. It's Like everything was. So excited because he had to wait for so long and I think that can attest to this that part of the way is to give you guys assert day you know like everybody is rushing to a good one on one but you want the best one online since we get to choose who gets to go on what there's something special about that you WANNA to pick the right date for the right guy. So you know sometimes it is worth the wait Rachel is say, Oh, good things can those wait? Yeah. Six Eight, whatever whatever. You enough to during coins. In Your Right now, I potentially might be back on TV sooner than I know right or crossing. Outside of the. Cursing Ni- Chris rained myself over pandemic. From probably like March to like get of May. Believe may more March April may be the book is called Transformation Changer. Mindset Change. Your. Energy. Changes Lice until this book, we'd give people tools to work on themselves every day you have something to do to transform your life from taking cold showers to writing release dominant hand to sing in front of the Mirror telling you love yourself. So people, Eric, how do you stay positive this book? Everything gets you to that level of positivity in just by. Feeling good undestanding who you are at the root level in unpacking all those issues thoughts any most of that might come up in you just suppressing because life just goes on. So we have a book I'll actually have you saw that book. Yet, another podcast interviewing like two hours so been pushing it. And Been Great. Where can we Amazon dot. com is on Amazon. Very bigger Chris Randolph transformation. We also have digital copies as well on our website. So right now, Amazon is the place to get the physical copies I need to. Go go get it now. Yes. Transformation change your mindset change or energy change a life and just not that in late fall have another book coming out all the hundred days of wisdom. So in this pandemic trading products, right because if we're losing if I'm losing money potato production side in TV side or I can't do things I've got a great thing. So myself so ownership, that's what I'm about. So I have a finished Thirty Day fitness challenge force fitness day channels in two books. So that's what I'm working a some people some people been shows and movies during quarantine some people write books and creates. Basically transformed transform. America season Americans don't come. Easy I. Never stopped miracle has never stopped. Eric I WANNA ask you and crystal in your book. I'm assuming have both of you done everything you are putting into it like taking the court towers writing with your. Hand. Yes like everyday co showers right Middle East on the head. So the funny thing is I have some clients on the side, one coach Mike Culture where I've of somebody's things out. So in the moment I'm coming up with things like, okay. For two minutes I, want you to look at a selfie video self-taught motivation to yourself. Right. Then another one, you're going to trade three minutes with the crocodile in three minutes in dance to your favorite song, right. So this is doing is exuding macri energy within the by to get you an ultimate state. Wake up and you're. Down cold showers waking you up. So we are giving people things that were done in witness ourselves but also that work I've been doing this stuff years I mean I don't like cold showers on gratitude statement at formations prayer meditation. This is what I do every more. Hideous but the outcome is the greatest because I wake up and you see you so positive motivation but he don't know what the work I do two hours in the morning before we got. This. Year. At. least. Between that What type? Because pandemic different book from five or six. Am I'm up. Jan The but I'm going to need you to text me every morning. It'd be like, get your ass out of bed go hop shower. Comfort Zone. You got two months left to live what you sleep before wake up. Got To go after it so. I'll come a long way. So I got nieces and nephews that look enough to create a blueprint for them. What are they looking at looking forward to when they get old is a book nephew is workout plan. That so people who they see now they know. So I got curate that for people following in the family. So legacy associated long. Eric. Catch up with you everyone checkout his books while his one is out now and then one hundred as wisdom coming out win Noveber full probably. Okay. Got An eat that y'all need that in November bring. In. One always go ask soups. I got posits all right now on the TV I'm always going back to people hate you've cigarettes for me also, Eric this is really ran, but I've never heard your Baltimore accent until now. Really, only have you only say it on one word are I only heard it on Do you. Do you know you? Okay by Eric so good to talk to you. Happy Monday stay motivated peace and love. He's Around by he's he's he's fantastic. I mean. Eric. was definitely we are good guys on our season. Eric. was doing when I was hoping, Eric Eric was one of my guests. Okay. I didn't tell you who would eric was one of them I will I also have no poker face. So had you guests before bringing him on I would not have been able to hide it unless I was like behind my ears I'm glad I'm but I'm glad it was. Was it a good surprise? Yeah No, I love. I love talking to Eric. He's he really is. So he's like even encourages Brian all the time like he's always motivating everybody. Is a great one. She is. Alright. So we got one more or less. We can't forget your very last guests. Are you ready for this one Rachel? Oh, you'll be signing Eric. Cantor. Okay. Yes. So can we please bring on guests number four, sa- join the chat and guests over four. Please recite your line's going to be a big week. She's going to avenue impact on my life that not many people have. Say a second say the second line. Data. I know you have a thank. grins. Wants. Pangolins Fried. Snack. Manual yes. Yes I did want I did want to make you say, but I guess the first time. He does not. Know we had eric on he was disguising his voice sounds like, oh, it's Matt. and. Keep his guys did show well though that it didn't sound like him so. Amount I just got off the phone. So maybe somehow trained his wife sound like I. Thought I was reading sound like you. It didn't sound. I thought it. Was You you disguising your voice like I was like, Oh that's bad. Guys. But anyways. Welcome. Good I make good. How about you, guys? We're good. Episodes how many episodes deeper into the podcast now? Oh Gosh Sixty. I think. You're sixty. Year. Law. Shame on me I didn't know it was going on for that long. Rates I never really keep up even if I try. I can't keep up either. You off. Austin problems go problems have for sure. So you've been doing okay during quarantine. Good everything's good. Spending a lot of time with family my niece turn one yesterday. So that was a lot of fun. Enjoying being an uncle and I'm okay without time like I'm I'm kind of a homebody as it is so. It works for me to be honest with you hasn't really back too much. I've been working out a lot I've been. Eating good I've been drinking. Thank you appreciate. So you matt, we're based on Connecticut Connecticut okay. We wanted to have this episode because all of our fans you know we love walking down memory lane with them, and so I need to ask you because I've asked Eric and other guys this one of your favorite moments that you had on Rachel season. So I've been running this thing a little bit. Today and There are a lot of trust me I mean I went to five countries in. A matter of what six weeks I think my whole process took. I think actually my favorite moment just because I'm a huge basketball fan and I played basketball most my life was back when we were in LA and We ended up playing basketball while rage and Kareem, abdul-jabbar watched us. And that moment's yeah that was that was just that was big time and that's When I had myself and say like I'm just so lucky right now you know what I mean. This is if I, you know I wish I could like. Have my dad because at the end of the day, you didn't see it but. I wish we had eric after because he could definitely vouch for me. Arrays you could to. I had of the best games I ever had. got. On Fire I was on fires and of course, like the rest of the season went down you saw me hit like one basket and that was it. To be. A double digits now. Really well, and the crazy thing about the second. They ask the guys who's played basketball if I knew Kareem abdul-jabbar was was standing there. I, never would be like Oh. Yeah I'm great. So several of them were like Oh yeah. Great. I played in college in all all of them sucked. All bragging rights. And there's Matt. You just seem so sweet. You're probably just like Oh. Yeah. I played a little bit like school on all of men just kick off no words I have no idea. Matt like being sports fans that was a big deal I remember. Until right before y'all were coming out. They were like, all right. Are you ready to find out who is cream does? Abbas like shut up, it's A. Joke. Everybody goes home I just want to hang out with. Matt. To play in front of him. Oh, my God Well, I mean, you combine that with the fact that obviously you know there were cameras This was on TV you know I don't WanNa get injured. Last thing I'LL WANNA do like sprain an ankle here but I just wanted to own my own I mean in my there was guys that some of some of US actually now myself but other guys have played in college and so you know. How am I going to fit into this? I don't know it was like it was just muscle memory basically all sudden I felt like I was in high school Kim again and Yes it definitely nerve wracking but he was he was the nicest guy he was quiet. A ton, but he's the type of guy that when he does speak. It. You know he doesn't have to say many words base smart guy I can't believe they had him. Go ahead I'm sorry. No I was just GonNa say what I came back actually. I think a month or two after I'd gotten back off the show I went and watched him speak because he continued on his promotional tour for his book. and. Man. Just, to hear you know all the all the different stuff that you know basketball before we knew basketball is be real I. mean you know Kareem abdul-jabbar but we were we were after his his era you know what I mean so to hear some of the Braga Oba's stuff. It was just incredible. Once in a lifetime. And back to that date, it was like a high and it was a low because that's when the ex girlfriend cain and then. Upset. Oh. Remember that day. I WANNA, take it on a good note because I was so mad and then that Ni-, it was like you know they obviously had given a pep talk about probably like make her feel better and I would say that that's the night that you and I are really connected. You're on that day like we were sitting in like some old car I don't need your. Remember. Okay. I remember walking away like I. Really. Like him. We just had like a super normal chill conversation. Just like really really good. Whenever anybody asked me you know you get all the standardized questions but You know did you did you were you really did you really like it? I said look we had a mutual respect from early on and we were we were you know very much in the same place in our lives. You know I think your sister had just got married at the time. She was about ready to start a family that was like the same thing I had gone on back home. So we understood each other and And you know it was I'll never never forget any of it. You know what I mean and to be honest I I if I had any regressive, just be that you know. I waited too long to buy into the to the process because he's worked for. So many people has work for you Brian, and you know if few other friends that I that I have from the show. So. You know when anyone asked me is a real and and Kennett work I mean absolutely just A. -ticipant how much you're willing to invest yourself Celebi. Are I don't know. Are you seeing anyone currently? I'm single as. You know. I've been single for for almost a year actually coming up on a year. So if and when paradise ever comes back, would you consider that? Absolute definitely. Know to try and invest a little bit earlier. You never know what could happen. Yeah, I mean. What I liked about the show now and I say, this guy soups I feel like we're on the older side of you know. CAST mates. Show. I mean I think I think you're the oldest until. Until they brought Clarion, and then you the second oldest. Right. I. Question. I think CAITLIN was. Okay Yeah I was twenty, seven, twenty, eight when I filmed. Okay. Got You can. Either way at this point it just feels like. They really wanted to. Take about going a little older and it's going to sort of broaden the horizons for everybody. So I, mean I'm thirty five I never thought I would go on another show again. But now my mind is open to it because you start to see it trending a little bit older and I'm thinking there are GonNa be some older people when paradise finally rolls around again. So I don't think that you know in watching the show a couple years of follow up my season. Did I ever see myself connecting with anyone but now muscle sure about that I think that you know the possibility definitely exists. So yeah, I definitely opened going up paradise again it reminds the story of Astrom and I just think that. Everything is about like it took like on next season extra curl long time to open up like she just couldn't buy into it. took a year off in came back to paradise when she found. Kevin. So I, think that Aurora your perfect place right now you know what I mean to be open for that. So. We acknowledge on. We WanNA. See APP. Listen. Yeah that I'm going to good place seems like you guys ran a good place and it seems like a lot of people are single now too. I mean as much as many couples that I talked about you know getting together and making were plans for a wedding and everything there also seems to be like. You know there are some single and available people out there were part of the show. So. I think the? Bright Online. Yeah. Yeah back into this incestuous family. Stomach or All Right Mattis always good to see you. Talk. To you. Are. Slurs we'll see. Yeah go enjoy your knee. My niece has her first birthday in a couple of weeks. So I can't wait to celebrate. So I'll be birthdays her. Yeah it's yours as well. Go squeezer extra tight are now. That I've missed out a year of this podcast. I'll start listening to lot more keeping up with you guys. Thanks. The best episode, of course. Thanks for having me Guys I. Appreciate it. Thank smack. Smack. CARE. By To. What a sweetheart he's the so it's it's I adore Matt. That wasn't my guess. My guess was the we're. GonNa Bring Alex on but I love with Matt on because. Every. Nobody could. When my season was Eric AS Roma's saying how that make it so far house there's always the person you mix a far who don't see a lot of He was the most normal person on. That's why you can see him a lot when I tell you, he's right. We had a mutual respect. We had normal conversations. There was this normal progression of our relationship. That's why I boohooed when I sent him home I was like I could speak I was like buckled over what I had seen him home because we just had such a connection he's so one of the good ones he is such a good guy. Like. I'm like if he comes back on the season, he better find love because he deserves it he wanted to he's ready for it on. Him To come on. Yeah I'm glad we had an too because like you said, he is a little a little bit older but I think it's super common you I don't WanNa like categories people that come on the show you either have the people who have been fans kind of know what this world is about and they think they're going to get all these cool opportunities and product endorsements coming from it but then there's the people who are more skeptical and they're like, I don't know if this could really work but for somebody like Him who? May have been a little bit more garden and then sure about it but to say, it actually does work if you take it at the right pace in your own time I think people need to hear more of that because you know to this day like we're slow questioned if it's real because people don't think that you can actually develop feelings for somebody and listen to him it's like well, he's exhibit A.. Yeah. So yeah. He starts to believe in it more when he kept going farther and farther along the problems like okay. Get cut on basket cut in as time progresses like away. No, she's not cutting me. She does like so yes, it happens to everyone but he's ladies. He's one of the good ones on just saying he really does three lakes, such a combing calming presence and so right Brian is very close with Matt's and air. Probably those are made the chip people. He's the closest with from Ziemba, so I don't know if you would do this. But like lower is going down memory lane. But when I would talk to the guys, I would always ask them who they were close to because it let me know their personality who are you rooming with Oh like what I never said what do you think about this person? It was more of I wanted to know who you're click was. Yeah. That told me I felt like it told me a lot about in for Brian Exhausted Yeah Oh definitely a and I and I always felt like I wanted a guy who got along with the other guys don't want somebody who is so turned off against like one person or like anyone in the house and I think that's very telling so. Yes. Well, I'm glad that branch close with both of those guys because I I mean I've met Eric. A handful of times just adore him but that was my first time ever talking to Matt. So he is yeah, we're hundred jobs wealth for each other. All. Right. You guys today's episode was so freaking fun. I love taking a walk down memory lane and seen some old familiar faces and some new ones like Matt. So it's always great to catch up with our friends from Bachelor nation and to be honest I'm actually very surprised that we pulled that off i. thought between me screwing things up and technical difficulties I didn't think we would quite now but it seems that we did. So continue the phone with US guys and make sure to keep tuning in because like we said earlier, we have some pretty amazing guests coming on in the next few weeks, and we cannot wait to have our about shreds on to help us come down to the upcoming season. Yes. The No. On the head. This was really really a lot of fun today and I lost surprises white to and I love the we both got to do it for one another. So you guys as Becca said, we got our girls coming on the show are Bachelorette's you know we got the group chat going you know. So if only you guys could be a fly on the wall and see some of the things we talk about on that chat. So maybe I duNno, they'll seep into the podcast as we had them upcoming gas and if you guys have any questions. That you want to ask some of your favorite bass rats make sure you right into us on our social. We'll be looking for them will try to give you some notice ahead of time so we can make sure to get those questions from you. So you guys know where to find US nowhere to ride on instagram. It's at faster happy hour on facebook and twitter. It's at batch happy hour and last but not least as always do not forget to subscribe to our podcast on spotify apple podcasts or wherever you guys listening to this right now I guys take care. Yes, and also you guys we're going to keep reminding you this. As we are. Also you guys we're going to keep reminding you of this every single episode because we really want to encourage you guys to rock the vote to get out there were not trying to sway you either way. It's really just so important to vote I mean just being women you know there was a time where we couldn't vote it all. Up being a black woman, it was even four decades after the time women were allowed to both. We were allowed to vote and it's just our rights we should exercise it shouldn't take it for granted. We couldn't do as Hillary we shouldn't do as Hillary. Clinton said let this be another year of Shoulda WOULDA COULDA. Let's go out there use your voice take action and make sure that you rock the vote oh also. The countdown is on it. You're not registered to vote for personal story for me. It's me weeks to be able to change my licence in Florida because of Covid as Berry is make appointments to change your license in. If you're moving to a new state, it's very, very hard to get an appointment and the deadline is coming up. especially if you're doing achieve ballot like I'm also doing you need to be requesting those. Now if you are registered to vote request your absentee ballots now it's so imperative and you can't do that early though. Early, bow. Or come see me the polls because I'll be working them. I Love Love Love you guys. With that where we are APPS. knockabout.

Lila Rachel Eric Eric Paradise Rebecca Joe I Caitlin America La Brian Chicago Matt Peter Right Chris Randolph Jason Rachel I US Peter Season BIA partner Tammy
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Survival of the Thickest with Michelle Buteau

Unladylike

37:21 min | Last month

Survival of the Thickest with Michelle Buteau

"Today's episode is brought to you by promising young woman from focus features. And i could not be more excited about this movie. Finally coming out it stars. Carey mulligan. Bo burnham allison brie and laverne cox and it's directed by emerald. Fennell people are loving this story of revenge. I cannot wait. There is already buzz for best picture promising. Young woman is in theaters. Christmas radar visit promising. Young woman tickets dot com to get your tickets now. Hi. i'm chelsea davanas host of celebrity book clubs a new podcast from stitcher. Each episode of this book club explores the power of women telling their messy sometimes ugly mostly empowering stories in their own words. So come join me. Come get in the book club. Let's talk some shit. Celebrity book club is out. Now listen in stitcher apple podcasts. Or where everyday or podcasts. Let me tell you something. I am a fowler okay. I've fall all the time. Look at my body okay. I have not seen since the seventh grade. These fleshy shelf truly cannot see murphy. Mahal body is shaped like a drumstick emoji. See shit top nubby on the bottom fucking delicious writing on ninety nine. Kristen this episode of unladylike basking in the glow of one of my favorite comedians. The hilarious weird wonderful warm michelle. Buteau air horns air horns air horns. So y'all just heard a clip. From michelle's i stand up special. Welcome to buteau bia. Now streaming on netflix and when we zoom with michelle. It felt like she was doing his standup set just for us so if we could just get started with having you introduce yourself just tell us who you are where you live and what you do. Well my guys so my name is michelle. Buteau spelled like bureau but with the t get into it is the verse of percent that miami. A stand up comedian. That really loves to sit. I love happiness joy and black magic. I love heated yoga classes. But not too hot. You know. I don't need to feel like i'm in an episode Afraid like a forty days jones. I am a lover rotisserie. Chicken just left like finger. Buff like very juicy rat. And so sorry actually. I'm not sorry. I do like different. Sauces what else can i save myself. This is terrible. This is why. I've never done like a blind date even dislike any like internet dating situations. I'm always like over explaining like internet dating back in the day when it first started. You had a lake right of kings thesis. Why is this about me. Seven arts now. It's just like a body never excited drumstick emoji. But we already know that for my special. Welcome to through tokyo available on netflix. Right now that is maybe the best greatest self introduction we have ever had on unladylike caroline. I stand by that statement and we've had some pretty incredible guests self intros. Yeah and kristen. I will stand by this statement. Welcome to view. Topa is a delight. Like i gave it five out of five unladylike middle finger. Those fingers are well earned. Michelle has been doing. Stand up for eighteen years now. I i heard her a few years ago onto queens and she was fucking riot but lately she has been popping up all over the place yet. Maybe i'll saw her last year playing alley wong's childhood best friend in always be my. Maybe he feeling pregnant is how i am so medicate milton. I was driving to work this morning. Thinking about her taking those pictures on the hospital steps like what three hours after she had a baby and she had royal debut on. You know she had that diaper on what you talk about stuff customers. She's currently starring. In the first wives club reboot on bt plus and hosting fan fave isolation reality show the circle on net flicks. It's been less than a day in the circle and already one of our eight players. Alana has been blocked and denied that one hundred k. It's a jungle in there and she's raising twins and and she's got a new book out to call survival of the thickest and just like she does in her stand up michelle bears today about the three bs her body her boobs and her babies. Michelle grew up. In new jersey the only child of a jamaican mom and a haitian dad in survival of the thickest she writes we were the light skinned family. No one could quite put a finger on. We were the white sheep. Weird accents exotic food and loud music. No one's ever heard of so michelle. What kind of girl were you raised to be. Oh i wish my mom would answer this shit right now love this. I was raised to be a polite young woman You know. I could definitely have an opinion but don't be too opinionated Don't laugh to allow deathly. Don't were don't talk about sex. Don't be sexual. don't you know it was a lot of like I i feel like growing up. I was like secretary madman. It was just a lot of french and turtlenecks. Truly my mom would straighten my hair. Cover my records. Take me to Shake a bunch of people's hands and you know say random boring shit. And i just want to be like loud in. May i contact in just like throw my head back. And cackle on. I just Yeah i felt like. I was really trying to be something. I wasn't in that there was something wrong with me because i wasn't like them. And when you say like them are you referring to your your parents. Yeah i mean mostly my mom and her family and her friends are just wasn't like them. Everybody was so hawaii and meek and quiet and would go to the kitchen and just to cook and clean and just be like boys will be boys would never really stand in their power or force in issue. I can't wait to grow up. Get added this house so i can do whatever i want like fucking puerto rican version of lose which probably been done already. I think so. Your new book is called survival of the thickest and michelle. What does thick mean to you. What good at question girl you think is sort of a state of mind if as a category where you kind of have to make your own category people like to say things like you're thing your fat or whatever problem areas but sometimes you just sometimes you know you just got some more meaning your bones that others and there's nothing wrong with that figure the celebration of whatever got back fat. Whatever the fuck you got going on like extra might top titi me really even between the size like you could just start a fire with some corduroy pants. Yom michelle could've used that kind of celebration growing up. Because when she turned twelve she was dying to get a brand new purple bike for her birthday but instead surprise she got. Boobs are really felt like tom. Hanks in big leg it was crazy. I really felt like i went to a circus. And then i put like a quarter like zoll machine woke up which cities like you know. I went to catholic school. And everything was buttoned down in. Oh you know what happens when you have titties. His blend down at once always bigger than the other. Though god is crazy it was crazy only trying to hold onto this button like liam newsom china save his daughter in taking god how it and that was the wild transition. Because you know you're still playing with rb than you are trying to figure out how you can watch electric company or whatever the fuck. I was watching. And now i'm walking to seven eleven slurpee and i'm getting cat called by older men. Just sort of receiving this unwanted sexual attention and it's gross in this just fucking grows. You know to be objectified At such a young age and like not even half so when explain what that issue because especially going to catholic school all. You always don't have sex. That don't have sex uganda. I don't do it don't masturbate. You'll go to hell like that's it. No one ever teaches you like. How do you walk down the street in handle getting catcalled when you are just trying to get home to do. Your geometry omer did getting boobs overnight. Change how you saw yourself or felt about yourself yet for sure. I thought something was wrong with me. I didn't look like the other girls and You know at the age do sort of like fit in with everyone. You don't wanna stand out new special your body to stand out so we're gonna macy's we're trying to find something for me to wear church and i have to go into lady. Section is just like why guess is just like the cross. I have to bear you know and everything was just black. All the time and there were shoulder pads and there was like fourteen just felt like a puerto rican johnny cash. I'm like what is this when wal mart and only came out with leg maxi-dresses unlike ambi say injury girl tripping over like so much walk always with a wedgie beyond we'll speaking speaking of titties. Tell us how having big boobs is like rocking super short haircut as you put it in the book. Oh my god that is so funny look having big titties is like having a sinead o'connor buzz cut because you have to dress around it like man if you wear neck. It's while she's really asking for a look at that. Horwood that top to meet your chesley low as crack in if you cover it. It's just like this. You dissolve a conference somewhere in. Utah was while she'll celebrate her body. They're also so heavy. So if i'm walking down the street in hot and i could feel rash unto my titties starting to fucking grow on a guys smile mama. It's just like do you wanna have an extra thirteen pounds on your chancellor issued in. I can come up and be like. Why aren't you smiling. Heavy my really want ass wiping money. Like i just want someone to wipe my aggravating happens to me and that is true. But i also would love someone to dislike. Carry my kids around. 'cause lord knows don your i mean. I used the name them like muffing buffy but now like i'm gonna call them like misogyny and patriarchy carolina. I'm renaming my cups unconscious sexism. Because they might be hard to see. But they're definitely there especially if it's cold sample. we're gonna take a quick break why we come back. Michelle buteau makes mix life life-changing titi decisions though bust out. It takes a lot of tenacity to keep a small business going and every bit of support from the community helps especially this past year. Caroline and i are unladylike small business owners and it really has taken a lot of persistence to keep going during this times so to help. Small businesses finish twenty twenty off. Strong paypal is offering the chance to win up to ten thousand dollars in a sweepstakes with two thousand twenty prizes pay pal. Qr codes make it easier than ever for customers to shop safely right from their phones with no need to handle cash or cards. Shoppers can pay small businesses right from their pay pal app. Just pull up your pay pal. Qr code get it scanned by our customer and your payment will appear straight into your account start using paypal qr codes to accept payments for a chance to win up to ten thousand dollars get started at pay pal dot com slash unladylike or download the paypal app. That's paypal dot com slash unladylike. No purchase necessary ends december. Twelve twenty twenty subject to official rules caroline. Would you say there's a lot going on in the world right now. Yeah i think that what is going on now qualifies as a lot well. The skim is here to help us cut through all that a lot meat. Skim this a weekly podcast that makes it easier to understand how the news impacts you. They break down the most complicated stories of the week and add context and clarity to answer the questions that are on your mind skim. This brings an expert voices from around the world to help explain why the news each week matters both in the short term and the long term. And why you should care in a busy and sometimes noisy world skin. This is here. To help you injure week with a roundup of news. They know matters to you. They skim you. Listen here on lady like we think it's so important to stay informed and engaged even when it feels like there is too much to process so if you're feeling overwhelmed but you still want to know what's happening in the world checkout skim. This new episodes come out every friday morning. Subscribe and listen every friday on apple spotify or wherever. You get your podcasts. we're back with michelle buteau. Who has so charming. Y'all even her zoom audio delays are memorable. Hello did it change how you saw yourself. There's a delay here. We should probably say there is a delay so if you hear a weird silence it's not us just sitting here staring very lonely permanent. Only oh my god kristen. I'm still nervous sweating over sending michelle buteau into a panic. Is it weird. That i'm still laughing about it. Okay so when it was time to look for colleges michelle wanted to get out of jersey burbs. She chose saint. Thomas university in miami and that location change was liberating miami. South florida is just like one of those places where it's like no other place in america so many different cultures that Celebrate their bodies was fucking wild it like little do remember like that scene in hustlers Homegirl goes to the back room. And everyone's just night liz. Those out like her tits in the flute in cardi b. has a chocolate cake and like walking around completely comfortable with your body's and like salerno fucking shoes. Whatever the fuck. That's what miami was like. Everyone is like hella comfortable. All ownership didn't matter if you had a front wedgie which i call for aback yesterday was just like a wonderful wild time especially in college where alex just needed to see people that look like me and that didn't look like me love on their bodies but michelle's boobs still felt like a burden literally one boob was a triple d. and the other was an e. cup. They were physically uncomfortable so much so that she eventually decided to get a breast reduction and it was a game changer free. I felt like This is what it's like on the other side. I felt like i was ten years old again. In some respect. I can just run. I can go running and not worry about how. Slow or fast i go. I can go into a store and just put something on the. That's never happened before I can go into a bus or a train or until like a crowded hallway and not hit material on. Somebody's back and be like excuse me. I remember one time going to church with my parents at the end of catholic mass. The priests waits at the door shakes your hand and i remember going to shake hands and he hit my boobs by accident in his. I'm so sorry child. You're forgiven father. Like he was the thing that i had to like. Explain to people like obser- your just like it's okay. I'm used to. I didn't even feel at this point. Dead inside just getting south beach might have been a body positivity haven for michelle but that wasn't always the case on campus in survival of the thickest michelle recounts a college professor who actively shot down her onscreen dreams. I mean you know again. This is miami right where everybody on. Tv that's the journalist looks like silvio gara until i want to be journalists and because you know i love being creative in production and i love storytelling. Sounds like this is my thing. Entertainment reporting scheme out. Like if i could be on it'd be fucking so You know we went around the class the want us to say what our major in so i did and he said you know i gotta tell you you're just simply too fat camera and i didn't questioned him. I didn't do anything. I just kinda felt embarrassed but also dislike okay right on. I even have the audacity of hope to be like you know what feser doc you i'm gonna go out and do it. You know there's no yet but i'm gonna start a channel somewhere laying just sort of believed people and so i just sort of like you know was definitely happy and had made minions but wasn't opinionated. Didn't wanna rock the boat and didn't think that i could do something for myself. Just thought you know you get a job. You put money in your account you get married. You live in an apartment with carpet and white lines and you go to the rainforest cafe every weekend like that's what you do and nothing wrong with. That just wasn't my journey. I really believed it was for so long so for years. Michelle worked behind the camera pursuing work in tv. Editing and production. It wasn't until two thousand one that she took her first big step toward making her own lane. She was in her mid twenty s working as a local. Tv news producer. In new york. She'd been considering up and her friends. Were always encouraging her. But michelle just didn't think a comedy. Career was sustainable. Then nine eleven happened. Michelle was working. Sixteen hour shifts editing. Horrific footage reliving the trauma day. After day i mean it was horrible and she was like fuck this like i might as well do what i actually want to do. So on september fourteenth. Two thousand one. Michelle did her. I stand upset. And she's been doing it ever since. It took time to get good at it but i liked it from the beginning and i realized damn this is home. This is where i always want to be in. How can i ever fucking myself not do it simply because nobody look like me on tv we the change you want to see. No one is listening. It's fucking view and you keep doing it and doing it until somebody wants to listen to. You dislike going. Yeah i got some experience doing it and doing it by myself. Word of a fucking room. In so i'm a late bloomer when it comes to making my own lane believing myself and you know letting people have their opinions on me and not letting it affect me. And i don't know if ever life but i hope he has a netflix password. 'cause fault we're gonna take a quick break when we return michelle shares what it's like to get onstage and make people laugh while going through. Ivf and processing pregnancy loss stick around. Winter is coming. But that doesn't mean you have to deal with dry cracked dragon. Skin care beauty skin care brand. Belief has the answer. They use herbal ingredients combined with korean skin-care science to create effective and powerful products beliefs. Bestselling moisturizing bomb is cushioning cream that provides dull flaky skin with an explosion of comforting moisture. Leaving it feeling supple smooth and deeply nourished plus its texture is like wrapping your delicate skin in a cloud of comfort and moisture. And they really are not exaggerating. We love this stuff. Oh yeah all of beliefs. Korean skin-care is incredible. It's so moisturizing so smoothing. My skin does not break out or get angry at all instead. It's just left. So supple and dewey y'all shop now at sephora to find out why everyone including us are obsessed support for unladylike comes from seal are clear fight back against annoying household messes with cslr. Clear seal are clear is tough on dirt and grime all around your home. And we're not just talking about calcium lime and russ they have an entire lineup of cleaning products for your kitchen bathroom garage podcasts. Studio and more visit. C l brands dot com to learn more l. Are clear fight the clean fight. So what has it been like to raise not one but two babies amid a pandemic lockdown. It's wild but it's good. I don't know anything else though. I don't know what it's like to have one like maybe for like a half hour. One one is still sleeping. Ones up just like this is nothing. Like i used to judge kevin's mom in home alone for forgetting her kid. All the kids often bag. We're back with comedian and working mom. Michelle buteau michelle and her husband. Have twin toddlers hazel and otis for five years. Michelle tried to get pregnant via of but after four miscarriages she and her husband decided to pursue surrogacy. She talks about the experience in her netflix special. Welcome to buteau pia. I couldn't carry but so happy somebody else could. You know i decided to make the best out of it because you have to because life is still happening so when my surrogate was waiting to go into labor my husband and i were at the bar next door. Having a glass of wine oprah says you can have it all but not at the same time. But i think you can't hunting 'cause i did that shit we do want to talk about your ivy and surrogacy journey a little bit. Could you share starting with f like what that process was like for you and sort how it affected your relationship with your own body. I is wild one. You know you go through stages. At least i did where i was like. I have to do i've yet. That's fucking saddened unbelievable. So i had a more the fact that i couldn't conceive naturally and then when i was in it i'm like this is fucking expensive but tick tock let's go because it's supposed to work and then you forget that. Because you're putting these injections in your leg in your arm and your stomach or wherever else you can find this not like bruised and sore like okay that hurts but let's keep it going and then you're out and you're just talking to someone and you start crying. No reason to your life the focus with me and then your husband leaves crumbs on the countertop would you like i want a divorce you you know what i mean like your. Oh yes. I am full of hormones and then you for me at least a stage where you. I can't get pregnant and losing. The pregnancy is my other friends. That got pregnant. When i was pregnant. It's like they will carry the term. And i didn't select i'll still see their kids and be like oh that would have been this age and that will so it's like an ongoing reminder but it's also one of those things where anytime you get over the fucking mountain you just have to be like fuck. I am so strong. And i am so much more compassionate and empathetic anybody going through anything fucking hard especially when it comes to their bodies not new also feel like the government is punishing you and sometimes being if feels with healthcare and being female like you're already pre existing condition because you're a woman yet and i didn't realize until hearing your story that pursuing surrogacy comes with so many legal hoops like you know some states don't allow nonrelatives to be surrogates. So at what point did you decide to pursue surrogacy and where you and your husband kind of aware of all of those hoops. You're going to have to jump through no idea but it was such a wild time for both of us because it felt like for five years trying to conceive just being in a panic room all end essence felt like we felt like we found a clue to the next stage. There was like no no. No you're still stuck in this room. Keep going and so even was urgency to realize after the fourth miscarriage. Mazda was stopped doing this to you because to your body. Because i need my wife back like he was like how many times This poor woman up off the floor and then drop to the airport for her to get on a plane to do shows so it was just just swimming in a dryer of emotions and so when we finally decided uncertainty. Were like okay. Is this what the next thing is. And we'll just take it like day by day meeting by meeting check by check and then like you know. It was really overwhelming. If i really had to if i really sit down and think about it but he was so positive which was so fucking wonderful on even like friends like jordan carlos You know they always say stuff like you know michelle. There can be can be happy ending. There can always be something good so just hold onto that and take. It was really important to have friends to say she can work out. But not everyone michelle's life was so compassionate about the surrogacy and you know it's always awkward conversation have when you run into somebody because they're like what's your birth story. I'm like expensive. But i ran into one of my neighbors in new york. And so it's been on my man. We welcome these boy girl twins and he's like oh no what i don't mean to offend. I said well you're gonna give it to me and he's like i know a really good diet if you wanted the baby weight off. I'll say that is so funny. You say that because we actually had a surrogate and then he goes was a surrogate said. Oh my god this is why we need more federal funding for education. So people know truck around outside radio john lewis it matter. So i'm explaining. It's the him. I was like our dna. She's a carrier miracle happen. We have a family. She was angel walking on. I is going and he goes. Oh is it like handmaid's tale. And i knew i had a choice. Say yes exactly like handmaid's tale after going through so much to have her twins while simultaneously breaking out on the comedy stage on screen. Michelle has zero fox left to give. It's like just take the shame at shit i'm so tired of people shaming people for what they want or don't want with a going through get so much unsolicited advice. Like maybe las way if you didn't work as much me travel as much like you know. You're not even a doctor uniting that she came and get the zubec- class the fumble you tell me. How did you go through all of this during this time period and still get up on stage and be hilarious. I don't know i feel like You know stand up there to make people happy meet them laugh but it was also just as a fucking big and wild and important for me to be up there too because i have so much fun doing stand up and i feel like people don't have fun and that your bad because you're paying for the stand up and i'm getting paid for it was like And a sense of normalcy. You know just having something to do there were times norm dislike. Do i have to take this five. Am flight to l. a. pitches. Show that i just fucking wrote and don't forget my doctor's notes in all my needles in input my gesture own suppositories on ice dry ice. So they don't melt like it was fucking wild but you know when you want something you just get done no matter what what. What's your relationship with your body like these days. Sort of going full circle. Yeah you know I feel like with my body also mind. My spirit is always going to be a to do list. And that's what life is end. You know you just don't wake the fuck up and be like oh. My gosh kim kardashian fucking hips in waste. Humid like the thing for me. It's just Acceptance you know. I've been through a lot I've never been heavier. But i've never been happier and i feel finally like settle into all parts of my body. I have a dope partner. Doesn't mind lifting up my belly fama plus when he needs a bucking amazing. No i couldn't carry my children. But i worked hard for those embryos five years. I'm injecting myself with crazy. Justin langer had these beautiful beings walked the earth. I'm so happy. I got to finally meet these souls Man this is such a fucking place. I wish somebody would've told me when. I'm twenty three i would just you know. Be this bitch right now. Just like happy and healthy and just like laughing fucking alive in ventilator all right y'all you can check out michelle bhutto's books. Survival of the thickest wherever books are sold plus find her on netflix. Swear she's in every show on there now so go supporter you can follow her on twitter and i g atmos shelby and you can find us also on facebook and twitter at unladylike media you can also support caroline me directly by joining our patriae on. You'll get weekly. Bonus episodes listener advice in our undying love at patriotair dot com slash unladylike media. Nor richie is the senior producer of unladylike john palmer's our story editor sure theme rotate transcribes tape production. Help us from camillus. House are our music is by flamingo. Shadow army cohen and serta's in mixing is by kristen's sound design and additional. Music is by casey holford. And andy kristen's executive producers peter clowney daisy rosario and unladylike media. This podcast was created by your hosts. Kristen konger and carolina irvine of unladylike media next week on the podcast. it's us. Carolina are interviewing each other about twenty twenty mental health problematic white ladies and plenty of our own personal baggage. We are getting real. And i'm totally not nervous about it at all christian konger. How are you today. I am good. And what does good mean. Good means that. I'm not an anxiety spiral and feeling very grateful today and for me. It's the biggest challenge is taking perspective because there are thousand things that i'm not doing that i wish i was doing. And there are thousand. Ways that i feel like i am not living up enough to the the politics and the ideals that we espouse on unladylike. So that's how i am. God that's a long answer to question but also how do you answer that questions here. How either just like or like a thesis delivered. Y'all don't want to miss this extra special episode. It's the last one of the season and up. Twenty twenty make sure. You're subscribed to unladylike. Find us in stitcher spotify apple podcasts. Or wherever you like to listen and remember got a problem. Get unladylike when we come back. Michelle buteau makes a life changing titi decision. Don't bust out. I always drunk what i say to. Maybe you are stitcher. You wear a mask to show you care that you can help reduce the spread of covid. Nineteen so your community. Thanks you the virginia department of health. Thanks you and asks you to learn more at vh dot. Virginia dot gov.

Michelle Buteau ten thousand dollars netflix michelle buteau miami Michelle buteau Bo burnham allison brie laverne cox chelsea davanas buteau bia one hundred k Yom michelle liam newsom paypal wal mart kristen caroline thirteen pounds Carey mulligan
Snacktime: Sharks and Aliens

Endless Thread

19:32 min | 1 year ago

Snacktime: Sharks and Aliens

"Endless thread is supported by indeed. If you're hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions and then zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started at indeed indeed dot com slash N._p._R.. PODCAST and by xfinity some things are hard to control other. Things are easy like you're in Home Wifi with xfinity x y you can set a Wifi curfew change your password and create user profiles all with the x Fi app another reason why xfinity is simple easy awesome go online call one eight hundred xfinity or visit a store to learn more more restrictions apply where my parents at boy Oh boy do we have a podcast suggestion for you guys circle round. It's a children's storytelling podcast that adapts folktales for modern audiences beloved loved by the very young and the young at heart like Ben. Oh true I would listen to it. Even if I wasn't a dad. That is how much fun it is this month. Circle Round has a special pop up series was recorded live with an all star cast cast and musicians from the Grammy Winning Boston Symphony Orchestra so subscribed to circle round wherever you get your podcasts and join the fun produced by the island at W._V._U.. A. B. U. R. Boston Ameri. I'm eating shark snacks AK meeting baby seals right now you wouldn't you wouldn't dare talking to me. Gosh I would delicious baby seals all right. What's your baby seal? It's Actually Cherries. We're having a mind meld right now because I also have Baby Seals Aka Sheri's as my neck Ooh I meant to take them out of the refrigerator sooner and now they're like. They're too cold to put my really. I love a chill cherry. I like to keep all my cherries chill who called uh-huh but here we are just hold them in your hands. Hold Those Cherries in your hand and they'll warm up okay Ameri then this is a snacktime. Obviously this is one of those things where we're not releasing a full episode. It's just a little snack to carry over to the next week and <hes> we're going to have a little low key discussion of some of our favorite read stories but I feel like this is also pretty summer. Themed Yeah this week. Endless threat red is feeling snacky about scary ocean stuff because it's summertime also shark week is coming up at the end of this month shark week for those who don't know is that block of television programming on the discovery channel about sharks it is. Controversial for kind of pushing suspect science and helping to generate more fear about sharks when I think a lot of people would advocate that we should not be hating on the shark so much but Shark Week emory is apparently twenty one years old shark week can drink. Thank all right cheers will shark week. We'll <hes> we'll have a bloody mary the pen you're also gonNA explain some area fifty one stuff that kind of blew up I guess on red at this week that I apparently missed entirely Lee but now confirmed source also all over read it like it's my job because it is my job mindue but okay you have to go first sharks talk to me. Okay my snack. I feel like it's legitimately quite terrifying for anyone out there. who also has what's called FALESA phobia or a fear of the sea? There's a whole sub reddit devoted to those of us with philosopher Bia and a few days ago. There was a video posted there with the caption. I think this might be the scariest underwater video I've seen so far. I think I've seen this one. Have you yeah this is the one it involves a spear gun and <hes> I. I need you to describe what happens in this video. So what happens in this video is like a diver is swimming along due to do no big deal and all of a sudden out of the deep blue shoots this shark straight for the face of the diver and the diver just barely successfully sticks. They're spear gun into the mouth of the shark. It's DOC ID no but this is not actually my snack. My snag came from the first comment to this video. Oh God see that yeah. I just read it while you're talking. The first comment says go you watch the one where the ship sank and the cook was still alive man. They found the king's name L._l.. Cool J.. What is that supposed to mean clearly never seen deep blue? That's fine. No Oh yes. I know what you're talking about. I we have seen it just a long time ago yeah and he dies <hes>. Sorry I think survives Alvin but anyways the comment they found him three days later on a body retrieval dive so little more information that doesn't sound good. There's nothing good about most of it. I will say this guy's name is Harrison a Kenny okay so he was a chef for an oil company boat and this boat capsized upsize and sank back in May of twenty thirteen off the coast of Nigeria okay. He was one of twelve people on board the others perish. He sees a few of them definitely get sucked down into the water and they. You know presumably drown. He stayed underwater in an air pocket like he's under the boat and there's a little pocket of air that he has found for himself. He's under there for almost three days. Hawk yeah just is breathing that tiny amount of air. The boat sank a hundred feet under the water so this is a very limited amount of air that he's breathing. It's pitch black. He doesn't have food there was like a bottle of Coca Cola floating around and all he we had was that bottle of Coca Cola for those three days <hes> great coke advertisement rates are he said the the salt of the water started peeling away his skin and his tongue and there's this quote that he he told the press he says as I was very very cold and it was black I couldn't see anything but I could perceive the dead. Bodies of my crew were nearby. I could smell them. The fish came in and began eating the bodies. I could hear the sound it was horror but here's where takes a turn so there's a team of divers. They think they're just going on a body retrieval mission. They don't think anyone has survived so I'm going to play you a bit of audio here from the rescue askew just listen should be walking on the on the on the seating so this is the rescue team guiding one of his members through the rescue operation. WHO's under the water is alive? I think he sees a hand reach out into the water not reach out. He thinks it's a corpse he grabs the hand to pull the rest of the corpse out and it's this Guy Harrison and he's actually alive and no one can believe the divers totally freaked out not expecting him to be alive and you hear that you hear that like squeaky helium voice sound there so that's apparently just the way event divers voices sound because they're breathing in this helium oxygen mix. You'd be so he's alive but this story has so many things that I hate in it the sea shipwreck drowning these creatures feasting he certified no but claustrophobia being trapped in the dark slowly holy suffocating. It's a stressful journey to the surface for sure now he gets to he's like in the chill zone for the rest of his life this did he has said he would never go back in the water again. I don't know if he's stuck to that. This was six years ago but he said he was praying and he said God. If you get me out of this I promise to never go back in the water ever again I would do the same. I'm already ready to not go back in the water after hearing his story and I have one little <hes> thing to cheer you up though which I also count from read it we need it. This is the Boston related comment to a random post from four years ago about those child. Safety electrical socket shields yeah. I know all about this yeah. Yes you do so Dougie twenty eight comments on read it. My mother is a pretty thick Boston accent. When I was a little kid? She warned me not to stick my fingers in outlets because of the shocks wchs well I thought she was saying sharks because those two words sound exactly the same coming out of her mouth when I inevitably stuck my finger in there anyways in received a mile little shock I thought I had just been bitten by a little shark and a couple of years. I was convinced they're a little sharks in the walls waiting to bite my fingers leg electric today electric shock. That's amazing now as a reward word we can play the Boston sunfish video these two guys out on a boat in Boston harbor. They come across something. They have no idea what it is so good and true <hes> Boston form. This is how they react. It's a baby be fucking wheel man Holy Shit. We are witnessing a baby fucking wheel right here to shit. That thing is big J. What is that thing? It looks great. That thing looks right. Jake a baby wheel dude. It does not look like a wheel. I still quote this video all the time. It's so good yeah so for anyone who missed this. This came out for years ago. You have to will link to it on our website. It's still just as funny as it was. Then such a good pallet cleanser for the terrifying story of the guy stuck in their pocket in the middle of the dark. That's exactly why I did it. Well played thank you. We're GONNA call the Aquarium Korea massat and to all right. Let's take a little break and then when we come back you can tell me about your snack dead. Grow something Oh my God J.. Endless analysts thread is supported by indeed when it comes to hiring. You don't have time to waste you need help getting to your shortlist qualified candidates fast with indeed post a job in minutes set up screener questions then zero in on qualified candidates gets and when you need to hire fast accelerate your results with sponsor jobs new users can try for free when we sign up at indeed dot com slash N._p._R.. PODCAST terms conditions and quality standards apply. The endless thread is sponsored by xfinity. Some things are hard to control like over caffeinated co workers other things are easy to control like you're in Home Wifi with Xfinity X. Y.. Set WIFI curfew change your password bird and create user profiles all the Exi- APP another reason why Xfinity is simple easy awesome go online call one eight hundred xfinity or visit a store to learn more restrictions apply. The fact that in two thousand and nineteen were having this debate about measles vaccine makes my head want to explode coming to W._B._U.. Ours City space infectious of behind the scenes. CNN's look at endless threads special series on the strange past and surprising present of Vaccines Immunizations have been associated with fear and suspicion for so long have your questions answered answered July twenty fifth tickets and more information at W._B._Z.. Dot Org Slash City space okay. You're going to explain this area fifty one stuff that I apparently completely missed this week right right. I'm going to try to explain this was several read it posts and a facebook event invite so the original source documents of our Internet era of course <hes>. Let's start with the post into the out of the loop subset a great resource for anyone feeling like a new red references and event going on September twentieth at area fifty one the invite says September Twentieth Storm Area Fifty One. They can't stop up all of us. <hes> the person who posted this their name on facebook is shit posting 'cause I'm in shambles so clearly. This is a trolling type of person here yet but over a million people have R._S._V._p.. To actually do this and one point two million people say they're interested you know how facebook does that. These people are going. These people are interested in going yeah. Commitment Averse yes <hes> so the origin was on facebook and <hes> you know what creditors love more than anything making fun of facebook so the result of this was a huge wjr tidal wave of memes and conversations of all kinds on reddit people saying they were gonNA show up saying what was going to happen. When people showed up there was an ask reddit thread about this asking people what their predictions were her for what was going to happen when <hes> this all goes down on September twentieth and the top comment says <hes> the army will be forced to set out an aid station with water and sunscreen because of course no one brought dot nearly enough because obviously this area fifty one as we all know is in the middle of the desert the teens sub read it was talking a lot about this <hes> and making a lot of jokes? I thought this one was kind of interesting. What if we rated area fifty one alien emoji Alien Emoji and used the extra terrestrial technology gun emoji to overthrow the government in set up a communist regime? Ha Ha J. J. K. Awkward Smile Emoji and less flat mouth embarrassed emoji flat mouth embarrassed Emoji and then under that it says but guys I can't come my mom said No. I can't tell if this is a total joke a half Joe Ray. They're like we would prefer but I don't think many people are going to show up to this but it is serious and the. The Air Force has now officially responded saying quote the U._S.. Military stands ready because because this is a training facility to you know military training facility and <hes> the the air force basically said guys <hes>. Maybe don't try to swarm and military base. That's not gonNA work out well for you. <hes> so it's you know it's getting kind of serious. <hes> can I tell you my favorite meme him about all of this though of course so my favorite post about this says I was nervous about the area fifty one event at first then I remembered the training we received and it's just an image of this arcade game. This was one of those arcade games that like it had plastic guns that you would like take out of a holster okay and they had cords on them and you shoot stuff on the screen. It was like a split screen thing you'd shoot stuff on the screen and then would point away from the screen to reload. I don't know I just as someone who put many many dollars worth of quarters into that game. I appreciated that <hes> but but seriously <hes> hotels are booked up for this three three A._M.. Storming of orienting one I know I think that's like I'm not sure trying to. They're trying to get him in the middle of the night yes so they'll be harder to stop these people swarming the base <hes> at three a M. I feel like one way to avoid all of this would just be to give a live streamed tour of the base like doesn't the air force have enough alien technology to just kind of like show everybody what's in there. I don't think people would at least at least I if I were skeptical of this I don't. I'm not inclined to believe that the livestream that they're showing me is actually of area fifty one. You're one of those moon landing was faked type of people. Is that what you're saying don't do that. I am receiver landing was fake the fiftieth anniversary of that accomplishment no less no. I'm just saying you're these people. That's that's not GonNa do it for them. That's fair but you know what. I don't think. These people are GONNA get in. Let me just put it that way. Okay well whether you're in the desert looking for aliens or in the water looking for sharks. Stay safe out there. Everyone also programming note. We are going to drop one more extra in the feed in the coming days. It is about our get motivated episode and our New Year's resolutions member then aches. We'll also have a full episode on Deck for you next Friday until until then I'm Ben Brock Johnson. I'm Ameri Silverton. Stay snacky San Diego Shark did do red shirt today today. Support for endless thread comes from xfinity now you can get enhanced security for your home Wifi.

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Friction

Akimbo: A Podcast from Seth Godin

25:57 min | 1 year ago

Friction

"Every year in october about eleven thousand athletes travel to cambridge massachusetts to compete in the head head of the charles regatta the largest boating regatta of its kind one thousand nine hundred boats piloted empowered by by incredibly strong hard working men and women who are pushing themselves civil limits to make their boats go and they all head head in the same direction so the question is with eleven thousand people all pushing water with their oars as as hard as they can in the same direction. Where does the water go. Hey itself and this. This is a kimball while if you've thought about it at all which you you probably haven't you realized the water doesn't go anywhere it doesn't matter how strong and ors person his he or she is not able to actually move the water in the charles river much of anywhere so why bother what is the purpose of pudding your or in the water and leaning against it if the water itself isn't being pushed backwards. No giant waves are reaching the shore water weighs about eight pounds a gallon. It's too heavy to move plus. You can't just move the water. You're touching. You have to move all the water. That water is touching. You're not going to be able to push the charles river around. What's actually happening is leverage to get it back back. That's it all right starving. Start on the take. God leave cut the water doesn't move the boat does that by putting the or in the water we are leveraging the boat forward with the ore mostly staying still this leverage depends on friction and people talk about friction like it's a bad thing that if you're making a set of drawers worse your goal is to reduce friction as much as possible so the drawer will effortlessly slide back and forth if you're making a pair of blades for some ice skates you want them to be straight and sharp so the amount of friction you'll have on the ice is is reduced that the reason we have zamboni machine going around in circles on the ice rink is so that the puck will will travel effortlessly from one player to another we try to reduce friction thing about tinder tinder has has reduced the friction of the singles bar so instead of hours and hours of frustration. You can have minutes and minutes of frustration by swiping swiping done. Friction is the enemy of the internet friction is the enemy of many sorts of engineers particularly the ones <unk> who work in electric and computers. It's the friction that heats up your computer so if the goal is to remove friction what's the problem well. I went ice skating last winter. It was a magical day. It'd been freezing freezing cold here in new york for ten then days in a row but it hadn't snowed what's which meant that the lake roosevelt state park was frozen a foot thick and it was smooth on the top so i took my cross country ski boots <unk> clamped on some blades and i went skating. It was fantastic. I was going thirty miles an hour across the lake. I could've done it all day. The next day excited. I brought my dog along well. I thought the dog was going to have a great time. He couldn't run away because we were in the middle of a big lake but what i discovered was he couldn't run away because he wasn't wearing skates. All we had was pause and it didn't matter how hard he tried couldn't move. He hated it so he waited in the car while i finished my skate but the thing is i realized in that moment ice skates work partly because they don't have friction but they you work mostly because they do. It's the friction when we turn our ankle. They gives us leverage something to push push off against if we don't have something to push off against while it may be possible to coast eventually. It won't be possible to changed direction to accelerate to get from where we are to where we want to go. We need the friction that comes from the or being in water to move the boat forward like all analogies. This one has point. It's relevant and it's relevant to our culture. It goes like this the gatekeepers the ones who are gone. They gave us leverage because there was friction. If you got onto the lot at paramount the way steven spielberg did it made it more likely that you could get hurt that you who get a movie made because insiders have more leverage than outsiders. If you got a movie made it turns out there is friction in barriers because there's there's only three or four hundred movies released a year designed for mainstream theaters with only that many movies and only that many screens screens you have leverage that somebody's making a movie in their backyard doesn't have because friction is keeping those people out and you. You were benefiting from being on the inside. There is friction to get one of those scarce seats at m._i._t. And if you get one one of those seats and you last all four years you graduate with that ring on your finger and that diploma and then there is friction to get a fancy job as an engineer at a fancy company and most people can't get through 'cause they don't have what you have which gives you leverage and what what is shifted in our culture is we have asked the gatekeepers to leave the building and so now there is almost zero friction to post a video on youtube in fact if you install their app that is the single greatest moment of friction between you and the world cause wants the opposite installed. The video is in front of more than a billion possible viewers no friction and also no leverage since this podcast began a few minutes ago more than ten thousand videos have been posted on youtube venue haven't seen any of them we we have removed the friction from the book publishing industry now that anyone can write a book anyone will the number of steps from there's something on my word processor to here's a kindle book for sale on amazon is going down down to zero same thing's true with a podcast like this one on the amount of friction necessary to create a podcast keeps going down which means paradoxically that the amount of leverage you have have for making a podcast also goes down because scarcity has been removed when the friction was removed moved so what is going on in our culture is we have opened the doors to all sorts of mass communication we have reduced the friction and at the same time we have removed though leverage so since you don't need a gatekeeper what could possibly make the journey worth it because it turns out having a piece of media is no longer sufficient it used to be. It used to be that if you got got picked by a fancy book editor. The publisher took care of all the other stuff no longer and that's why so many people who are trying to change the culture are so uh-huh stressed out of their minds because we spent a little bit of our time inventing and most of our time seeking to gain leverage on the slippery abry ice the ice that has no friction so where can the friction come from it comes from permission the privilege of talking to people who wanna be talked to of engaging with people who want to be engaged with that kickstarter kickstart is a little bit of a mess because because people misunderstand it. It's not kickstarter. It's kick finisher that kick finisher works. If you spent months or years sir maybe even a decade building up trust and authority and connection and a following that permission the ability to deliver anticipated personal relevant messages to the people who want to get them that is scarce that gives you leverage because there is friction russian involved spam has no friction for fifty dollars. You can spam a billion. People friction lewis worthless no leverage but permission and the ability to talk to your followers to whisper to people who actually want to hear from you that makes you the the new gatekeeper if you read about what the influencers on instagram or making it sort of stunning a million dollars a month a million dollars a year. Maybe ten million dollars a year. How could that possibly be because they're not making it in a month or year. They're making it divided divided by the amount of time they showing up to lead a group of people who want to see the show they are putting on. They have re earned who leverage because there is a new friction and it is the new friction that comes from voluntary connection. It wasn't voluntary when there were three tv networks. Each one of them by default got a third of the viewers every night. People were hooked on t._v. They they weren't hooked on a._b._c. There were hooked on tv so the programmer a._b._c. as part of her job got a shot at a whole bunch of people people who had few choices. She created leverage for the people she bought her shows from but now that leverage isn't worth very much put the new leverage comes from the friction of infinity the friction. Is there too many things to to watch on youtube. I'll just watch the people i'm used to. There are too many things to search for in google. I'll just look at the things on the front page of google results. We have no idea as consumers of culture how to deal with infinity and so we willingly reduce the amount of noise. That's coming into us. We eagerly make our lives more convenient by narrowing who we trust and who we listen to and so the racist aren't always done is moved the gate keeping further down the chain it used to be the gatekeeper skipper said yes and gave you money and gave you a studio and gave you a deal and gave you an editor so you could do it all at once and now you've gotta finish and ship and then finish and ship and finish and ship and finish ship and the sixth time maybe you're starting to earn some friction friction friction because that will give you leverage the privilege of making stuff for your listeners instead of finding listeners for your stuff stuff that changes everything everything is different in the creation of culture once. We realize that it's it's the smallest viable audience a small group of people who are eager to hear from us connect with us and spread the word. That is the asset of our future. That is the asset that we earn. That is the asset that gives us the ability to be our own gatekeeper. The gate is right in front of you and you control the door to the gate a new decide if it's worth putting your name on to the next one so you need the friction lewis feeling of forward propulsion that happens when you set your oars just the right way and row instinct. You need that magnificent feeling of being on smooth ice on it's twenty five degrees out and coasting but you don't get there by default you get there because you've created friction i because you've paid for the zamboni and you sharpened your skates gates because you have shown up again and again to earn attention when everyone can yell everyone will yell and when everyone is yelling it's the people who have earned the right to whisper who will be able to make the best work and the leverage we've earned can compound 'cause we can take our head start and whisper again and whisper again and continue to lead and educate people who were enrolled in our journey and want to follow us where we have said we are going to go so all the time. We used to spend pitching the gatekeepers hoping to get picked. We have to stop spending that time and instead we have to invest the time for the people we seek to serve move to see them and hear them and understand them and then to do something remarkable that they will choose to talk about because that is how our culture changes. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time. We'll be back in a second with an answer to a juicy question but first we're going to hear from the amazing alex diploma my producer. Hey this is alexandra depalma all my i am the producer of a kimball. I also am lucky enough to teach the podcast fellowship. The extraordinary seth godin said what are we up to. This is the fourth time we're running. It and we're doing it because it works more than a thousand people have taken the podcast fellowship so far not because they wanna be rich and famous though some of them are definitely hitting a home run but because they wanna be heard because they have something to say because they realized that learning with the others is the best way to move forward to me. The thing that stands out when alums reach out to us is the impact of the community. It's different. It's unique because everyone is on the same journey in the past fellowship. Everyone is seeking to create a podcast in the community is not just for the seven weeks of course if lasting and that's the real value of the podcast fellowship. So where do we find out more w._w._w. Dot podcast club dot link is is where you can find more information and if you have any questions that kimmo dot com will show you all of our workshops. We hope to see you there. Thank him the alex. It's mighty. They said my name's kyle reading. This is stephen out madison wisconsin alicia from charleston here warm greetings readings from curious how much nick ryan from pittsburgh pennsylvania this is rex. Hi hi this is roberta perry my question it is and that completes my question as always we loved to hear from you to ask your own question about the previous episode or anything that came before just visit akimbo dot linked aka. I m b o dot l. i. n. k. and prestige quote we button hi seth. My name is alex al-bia nightman actor. I'm very curious interested being a longtime fan of all of your material well. How would what's the best way to implement your marketing philosophy on the whole and maybe a couple of particular examples in the acting field. If you wanna progressive progressive acting you wanna continue and move forward and get to the top of the pile. How can you do that with the stuff that you generally talk about. Thanks so much thank you for this question. Alex alex it is indeed juicy because it's not just about acting it's about so many careers so many ways to contribute and so much brainwashing the way that the brain washers would tell you to make it as an actor would be to do the work to show up at additions to become who they need you to become to show up and show up and show up and to fit in all the way we say this not just to people people who wanna make it on the stage but to people who for example wanna be a freelance writer or an illustrator or any other sort of freelancer where there is a system of people who are busy picking the winners. I would like to argue that. There are actually four different but overlapping ways days that you can do the work that you want to do. None of them are a clear well illuminated easy path but all of them are the way forward. The first one is to be distinct. This one is tricky because lots of people are trying to be as distinct as you are. You're but when you are distinct to character actor who can do something that only you can do the photographer who uses photoshop in a way that only you can use it. That person who is distinct will not be picked every time but if i need what you do i will seek you out number. Two is to have a following having a following means that when you show up your fans will follow you kevin kelly's kelly's one thousand true fans. If you have a following that means that you can get a gig for example on the broadway stage because the producer your nose you can sell some tickets similar to having a following totally different is to be famous and of course famous is no help whatsoever whatsoever to the actor or the other person who's trying to make an impact until you're famous but we all know that people who are famous get the benefit of the doubt in the fourth one is to make your own gig that the best way to make it as an actor is to make it as a screenwriter slash producer sir that if you are the person who is writing the show you get to cast yourself in the show that learning how to write how to be the impresario sorrow the person who starts the gigs whether that means you're organizing the local art show or putting on the play at the local theatre. Uh guarantees you a slot upfront because that comes with the territory. Casting yourself isn't nepotism. It's the the right thing to do so there. You go for different ways to go at making it as someone who is going to give up on on the system of getting picked for fitting in and one more question. That's got wide applicable pretty. I have a question regarding direct direct advertising persons brand advertising as it applies to the concept of smallest viable audience is one method better than the other it feels says though you favor direct brands that right i'm a musician and found that highly targeted thoughtfully need facebook and instagram video ads have been a great way to expand our reach and find more of the thousand true fans as it were <hes> seems to me in order to get the smallest viable audience we have to first show our stuff to a lot of people that are likely to be into it and then they're the ones that are truly excited about show themselves and give us a chance to earn their trust further looking for more just looking for enough just enough people to get to your word of mouth gone and it seemed to me that this falls under brand advertising the direct advertising feels disingenuous because i don't want to treat our listeners as though they received the l. team catalog and morgan funneled through to bail by c._d. Or something is there a better way to look at this. Thanks for all you do exactly. You're following a hybrid. That makes a lot of sense. The the problem with brand marketing brand advertising is that you can't measure it and it takes a long time and it's really expensive three pieces of one big problem. My first real job with a boss was working for a start-up magazine called harvest journal in in cambridge massachusetts which if you said fast sounded like harvard journal which was fine with them and my job was to sell advertising and so my freshman year of college allege. I didn't go to harvard but i was nearby. I visited almost every single. Stop on the entire subway line the tea in boston making sales calls. I still remember the very last call at fuzzy's sirloin pit a place it sounds as greasy as the name indicates begging the owner owner to buy an eighth of a page ad for one hundred twenty five dollars and i was going to give back my commission to him so as only going to be ninety five dollars and he didn't wanna buy a- and the reason of course is that buzzy could either keep one hundred and twenty five bucks were the ninety five or give it away to a magazine. He'd never heard of that. He wasn't going to be able to measure that sort of brand. Advertising is really difficult. Particularly for small business there examples where it works big companies. They want to run sponsorships that can figure out where they can show up over and over again brand advertising his genius. It's a magic trick. It's amazing thing but for most of us doesn't make a lot of sense direct marketing as we've mentioned is marketing you can measure and measured marketing pays for itself self but as you pointed out when you seek to serve the smallest fiber audience and there's a medium like facebook that let's you address just those people suddenly this sort of brand advertising can make a lot of sense as long as you. Don't try to measure it as long as you are a patient. If there are only one thousand people in your corner of nashville that need to know about you and trust you and like you and support you the cost of showing them a new video. Every week is tiny fifty bucks eighty bucks. You're done do that week after week after week after week after week after week take and you'll become an overnight success. Thanks for your questions. We'll see you next time. I just don't think it's possible possible or probable in today's world to distinguish yourself as an educational institution or as a success seeker at the level of information ingathering or information distribution. I mean this is the information age and you can get a great book a great essay a great idea anywhere you know. None of us can do that better than the internet right. There is no great thought leader who can out think the internet like we have data what all n._b._a. Gets right. Is it puts you in a context exc where you're part of a community that says yeah yeah yeah. That's good. You got access to ideas. You've got access to information. That's awesome but when you're gonna show up when you got to face that blame page when you're going to face the possibilities within you when you gotta face those fears. I'm not gonna let you gotta show up and that's the hardest part and it sounds simple. It sounds very commonsensical but it's the number one reason why we don't write that. It's the number one reason why we don't ask that question. It's not because we don't know where we don't have information. We don't have an environment and we don't have a support network that makes it feel like showing up as possible for me not just possible for the success stories. I see out there but i can show they consider the m._b._a. More than three thousand alumni in seventy four countries around the world find out more at ault m._b._a. Dot com.

youtube producer charles river massachusetts seth godin engineer editor cambridge instagram facebook google steven spielberg skating amazon kevin kelly Alex alex ault m._b._a publisher alex al-bia
Can the Fear of Public Speaking Be Conquered?

BrainStuff

07:31 min | 2 years ago

Can the Fear of Public Speaking Be Conquered?

"Today's episode is brought to you by smart water twenty years ago. Smart water, reimagined, what water could be from thoughtful bottle designed to supporting smart people who are changing our world through fresh thinking. Like, you smart water has added electrolytes for taste and great tasting water helps you stay hydrated, feeling refreshed and ready to take on your day. Refresh yourself with smart water. Welcome to brain stuff from how stuff works. Hey, brain stuff, Lauren Bogle bomb here. Your minutes away from presenting a speech, your heart, quickens, your hands. Turn clammy in your brain dissolves into oatmeal, those killer opening lines that you had planned. They've all but vanished with no evidence that they ever existed. Just like you're all day dealer. Intesne any sense of cool that you might have temporarily summoned and all those people around the table in the conference room or classroom or auditorium are doing the absolute worst thing. They could do right now. They're staring and waiting and waiting and waiting for you. I just want to run in high to yourself. This is not going. Well, I'm going to bomb. According to both my own personal experience and one Scott Compton. A professor in psychiatry and behavioral sciences at the Duke University school of medicine. That's exactly what those with a fear of public. Speaking are thinking, and that of course is exactly the problem the fear of public. Speaking is seriously, real it's a type of social anxiety disorder, which is a term first coined in nineteen eighty in the diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders, the DSM a friend the National Institute of mental health, quote, people with social anxiety disorder have general intense fear of or in Zion toward social or performance situations. They worry that actions or behaviors associated with their anxiety will be negatively evaluated by others leading them to feel embarrassed. This worry often causes people with social anxiety to avoid social situations. Social anxiety disorder affects a whopping fifteen million American adults among the many subsets of the disorder buffet. Of public. Speaking sometimes called glossy phobia is king as many as seven out of ten Americans may grapple with some degree of glosses phobia. Jerry Seinfeld once quipped, according to most studies people's number one fears public speaking number two is death. This means to the average person. If you go to a funeral you're better off in the casket than doing the eulogy. And this fear is way more serious than sweaty palms and a tied tongue those with severe gloss. Afo BIA worried so much about how they act or appear in public that they often avoid public settings altogether. And that can be harmful to their personal and professional wellbeing and the exiled and depression association of America warns things can get even more serious, quote, people with social anxiety disorder are also at an increased risk for developing major depressive disorder and alcohol use disorders, the Android. Kooks foundation for social anxiety lays it out in stark terms, the name may sound harmless, but the disorder is complex cruel and anything, but simple social anxiety is far more than shyness in a fear of public speaking. It's an addiction to avoidance and a disease of resistance. So what's happening here? A social anxiety disorders, including loss of Obama are defined by extreme fear, and worry, they are the most common mental disorders in the US. Besides someone may be experiencing an anxiety disorder may. Include feeling nervous, irritable or on edge. Having a sense of impending danger Panicker doom having an increased heart rate breathing rapidly, sweating and trembling feeling weaker tired difficulty concentrating having trouble sleeping, and or experiencing guestroom testing problems. The anxiety is thought to be centered in the mic Dula, a part of the brain associated with emotions the idea is that the amid Dula acting on bad memories or false ideas of what could happen releases fight or flight hormones that put the body in stressed state. Thus the sweaty palms recent heart and the desire to get away. The disorders often start in young people psychiatry professor Compton says a shy child who won't participate in class, even though he or she knows the answers or who's afraid on play dates or who won't join a sports team for fear of messing up and grow. As the child comes in adult Compton said most of the anxiety disorders start in early childhood and go untreated and unrecognized people end up developing some pretty maladaptive coping strategies, the go to strategy seems to be avoidance of those who have been dealing with social anxiety for years, including the fear public. Speaking. Simply avoid stressful situations whenever they can. And that's about the worst thing. They can do when it comes to conquering their fears accompanied said, the more you avoid the worse. It becomes my motto and therapy is you need to avoid avoidance. It's almost like if something causes you anxiety, you need to do the exact opposite of what your history is telling you to do. Therapy can help fear public speaking and many other social anxiety disorders cognitive behavioral therapy is a type of psychotherapy talking things through that is widely used to treat social anxiety by many mental health professionals. Come an said in therapy, you start with kind of small things, I know you don't want to go to a conference and be a keynote speaker. But would you be willing to give a talk in front of one other person start small build up some confidence and success? And then it turned the heat up in terms of making the situation. Gradually mornings -iety provoking anxiety. Listening medication is a possibility too. But the first step may simply be practicing a speech in front of a mirror or with a friend or so low in an empty room. Also, learn to slow down and breathe and try to buy into the idea that your life will be better. If you overcome your fear, Compton said when they can make the step of being willing to do that thing even though their history is sort of saying, oh my gosh. This is going to be awful those other. The ones that kind of get over their fear of public speaking. For those facing the scary prospect of making a public speech or being in any public setting where you may have to talk the national social anxiety center has loads of tips one is to decastro is the brain freeze that public speaking blackout that often happens with glossy phobia from personal experience again, the audience wants you to do well, and we'll forget about any mistakes you bake quickly. And even if you completely bomb one of the best lessons about performing that. I ever got was from one Chuck Bryant as he was getting off stage after coping with a particularly tough crowd of middle schoolers he shrugged and said, there's always next time. Today's episode was written by John Donovan and produced by Tyler clang for iheartmedia, and how stuff works for more on this and lots of other calming topics. Visit our home planet. How stuff works dot com. It's the Ron burgundy podcast. It's the Ron burgundy podcast. Guess what? I got up podcast, and you don't guess what? I got up podcast, and you don't Ron burgundy. Podcast. Join me Ron burgundy on the Ron burgundy podcast driven by safe auto, the only car insurance company I'll ever use it takes three minutes. And let's face it. That's about all the time. Any of us should spin with a car insurance company.

Ron burgundy Scott Compton National Institute of mental h Lauren Bogle professor Compton Jerry Seinfeld BIA Duke University school of medi professor Obama US Kooks foundation America Zion Panicker John Donovan
E6: Literary Fiction Vs. Genre Fiction

Novel Gazing Podcast

44:15 min | 10 months ago

E6: Literary Fiction Vs. Genre Fiction

"Today show is sponsored by TB Tailored Book Recommendations Tbo is rights subscription service offering tailored but recommendation for readers of all stripes. Tired of wasting money on books. You END UP. Not Living. Let us help. Tell tb all about your reading preferences and what you're looking for and sit back while you're bibliophile gist. How M- picks recommendations which are. Just you T- Bia. Office plans to receive hardcover books in the mail or recommendations by email. So there's an option for every budget visit mighty BIA dot coat. Sign up today. That's my T. B. A. Dot C. A. Hi I am Mary Kay. I'm Louise and together. We are navel-gazing. The podcasts that talks literary fiction. We're recording today. Show on March Seventeenth Saint Patrick's Day. So no if anything juicy happens between now and then and we haven't talked about it. That's why on today's show. We're discussing current affairs and news from the literary fiction world the differences between literary and genre fiction and also sharing our latest reads. But before all of that let's hear from one of US bond says today's show is sponsored by the winemakers wife by Kristen Hamal the author of the engrossing international bestseller. The Riemann Rue Amelie returns with a moving story set amid the champagne vineyards of fronts during the darkest days of World War Two perfect for fans of heaven. Morris's the TATTOOIST OF ASSETS CHAMPION. Nineteen forty Inas has just married me. Shed the owner of storage champagne house. Maison chauvel when the Germans invade as the danger mounts. Michelle turned his back on his marriage. To begin hiding munitions for the resistance in as fears. They'll be exposed but faciliate. The French drew swath of Shiva's SHEFA CAV. The risk is even greater. As Roma's about of Jews being shipped east to an unspeakable face when celine recklessly follows her heart in desperate bid for happiness and it adds makes a dangerous mistake. With a Nazi collaborator. They risked the lives of those they love and the Vinnie out the tie them altogether New York. Twenty nine thousand nine hundred. Recently divorced live Cantonese at rock. Bottom would have feisty. Eccentric French grandmother shows an announced insisting on a trip to France but the older woman has an ulterior motive in a tragic decades old story to share when past and present finally collide live finds herself on a road to salvation. That leads right to the caves of the Mazo Shiva okay. So here's the one piece of news that we are all hearing the most about because we are all glued to all of our media about the pandemic virus that's happening around us We're hoping for the best. Everybody is pulling their weight In the meantime while we're all kind of sequestered which Edano it's going to be like by the Tom. This episode comes out but right now. I'm like not leaving the House for my own safety and the safety of others and I am of course on twitter constantly. Because it's like I guess I'll take a break. I guess I'll go in my house so One of the things that I came across is This article from electric literature about what? It's like to try to promote a book in the middle of a pandemic would is that it's not just the summation of it. It is awkward and depressing and May and making a lot of authors feel selfish for carrying about how well their book is doing which is totally fair. Because many things can be true late. It's just so hard in the moment. Isn't it just trying to figure out like where your priorities should be what they should be? Yeah it's well. What did you think about the article? Well I thought it was really relevant. Light we're way our in a unknown time slightly at the moment aren't we? Then you think of all the everyday things particularly in the The world of literature that go on go on every single day you Kinda thing. Actually everything is changing and everything is certainly very different and yet we don't know what that new difference will be So yeah it's it's it's an interesting one and I feel for you if this is your debut week or you know because these books have been worked on for years and years and years in many cases and then it's a very complicated space to try to navigate. I think yeah especially because we don't know how long we need to hold off doing a lot of social activity social activity so I kind of understand why businesses are lake. Let's not postpone anything until we have to. I think and I get both sides of that but it is just above all around A. Yeah because you can't win make no matter what per like. You can't one way or the other. You're losing so One thing that I did notice both in this article and then also on my quote unquote breaks of twitter Is that a lot of authors are kind of doing Lake Gra- unwisely grassroots. That's wrong word but lake very much like diy promotion so yeah Posting like hey my book is coming out you know March twenty four th or whatever But no one's GONNA like book. Tours are being canceled and all that. So they'll be like if your book is being affected by this sub tweet it and will promote it and buy it and all that which I think is why but I can't imagine it is as effective as some of these more wide-scale marketing opportunities. But still it's like we're trying to hold it down. Seemed like everybody is helping each other. Still a bummer. It's like finding the setzer being proactive round. It's finding a way to gain some sort of control. I think in this vast unknown circumstance. And even if it's just tweeting or sharing all of these as you say these. Diy Initiatives almost. It's amazing what people can do under the seconds on says And what they can come together with. No they can the collective spirit. I think he's kind of lovely in a way that people bond together go look. We are all doing this for the greater good. Save speak apart from everyone. Who's holding toilet rolls you? You are not well. According according delivered toilet rolls are rolls. Nope I'm not ordering them an about one package because I am a normal person. Exactly hoops normal amount to. I mean to be fair. Some people do more. I don't know so yeah It's it's it's interesting to see the classes for getting together but equally you know I do think there's GonNa be some mad number crunching Amos. I six nine mums. Where people have to deal with the impacts of what Mrs Ben Yeah You Financially Business. Wise and the amount of Businesses and people that it's going to impact the way. I have a lot of sympathy for anyone. Who's coping possum? Yeah I think on a long enough time line. It does affect everyone off his show But speaking of business Your article that we're talking about today is from the Harvard Business Review. Tell us about it. Yeah so I used to work in a business school library which was really interesting. experience in that you go to see a very specific type of literature and one of the really common themes was and this is the article. I am picks out talk about was the case for reading fiction and this idea that reading Something makes you a better person in that particular way you know. For example you can gain Increase EMPATHY INCREASE. Coach will awareness Increased sensitivity et Cetera et CETERA I wanted to throw out and go. What do you think of that light? It speaks a lot. It's it's something that I've never quite come to terms with. But I can see the relevance of it but equally than I think of like being at school thinking well. I don't WanNa read what you tell me to read. I WANNA find my own. I would find my own way. I really loved this article because I it starts off by saying Several CEO's recommend reading everyday. Yeah which surprised me a little bit until I realized that they were reading nonfiction only. Yeah and that made a lot of sense to me and I loved. Also how the author said That's very good. Don't not do that. But it is not the same to read for gathering information as it is to read for the story of something and yeah and I love how An as I was reading it I was realizing that this is responsible. I think for a lot of people's emotional intelligence like literary fiction specifically because it makes you consider situations you've never been in or situations you have been in but from a different perspective And I think that that merit is somewhat lost on people who don't value emotional intelligence. I see so I don't really know what the point of me saying. That was except for that. It's something that I noticed when I was reading it because to kind of refer back to one of our former episodes where it said like men Reid typically nonfiction and women typically fiction. There's definitely merit in doing both and it shouldn't be a gendered experience. I don't think I think it's important to know facts. But it's also important to feel things I think those have their plays so like if you're in the workplace say in you out some sort of Working based problem at your manager came up to you and said here is The bridge Oh. That's Oh I was GONNA say the bridge too terribly traumatic thing to be presented within these fictional scenario. Here's a copy of a book that I read and I think it will help you out of your problem. What would you say like? How do you deal with that if they gave me a fictional book? Yeah Yeah What would I say it depends on the book probably And who is giving it to me right if somebody that a trusted their taste. It'd be like okay. I'll give it a shot or thank you thank you. That's why they you know if it's your boss you Kinda have to do it even disagree with it you you read it and then you have your opinions about it and the worst thing that could do is make you more sure of where you are to begin with right you see now. I'd I think I'd be the Newly that suited in my response of a site. I think he would just be more of a great. You presented me with this. Reading can resolve this problem as well. Yeah True Yeah I get that too. Might be a little condescending. Yeah I think what was really interesting to me as well in light with The experience of working with the business school in the business Library books is the there. Was this really big trend for summarizing key readings so like for example you'd say Oh here is this article Maybe ten pages his the five paragraph summary Over and. I thought that was really interesting drawing that distinction In actually reading the actual burke like doing the work right gets you this result and gets you this Increase Anthony and so on so on and so forth rather than trying to get like the easy win totally and I'm glad you said that because I had forgotten this article mentions like plot. Doesn't it took about plot versus Lake Overall Lake? The work that goes into a lot like yeah. It's I mean any time you read the back of the book it's like and then you're the book it almost never does it justice and I'm not critiquing that style of writing. It's just didn't like you said over simplified version or really really late spruced up version to get you. To buy the book you know. And and it leaves out a lot of the nuance and the more important parts of the booklet. Remember that twitter trend awhile back. That was Was it summarized movie plot badly? Oh it's like that's what to me reading for just plight does okay. I think my favorite one was like privileged. Son Inherits Fathers. Very successful business but doesn't want to and it's the godfather like right. It's really about time. And then we disliked it out so that parents reading summaries like I will get frustrated even as a student when someone was like well. I know how ends that will okay? But you didn't do any of the work to get there. It's like that's great but it means nothing to you. How it ends right you know the technicalities over right but you know so. Inside Mega stopped in the Roman Senate but it will mean nothing to you about point the emotional quality value of it. The journey totally. Yeah all right now. I read the book essentially yes. I'd agree read so before we talk about the bulk of our episode today. We'd like to hear word from our sponsors who make this. Today show's sponsored by Libra. Fm Lebron FM Letsie Patches audiobooks directly from your favorite local bookstore. You can pick more than one hundred thousand audiobooks including mitee bestsellers and some of the hottest new audiobook releases like the testaments by Margaret Atwood. The style of C. by Erin Morgenstern Children of virtue in vengeance. By taking me out. Amy At over the top by Queiroz Jonathan Venice with Lieber FM. You'll get the same audio books at the same price as the largest audiobook company out of the you know the name listeners of navel-gazing that says can get a three-month audiobook membership for the price of one month signed with code. Be off three that scuttle be capsule and then the number three at Libro dot. Fm before Saturday April Twentieth. And you'll get two extra audiobooks delivered that day in celebration of Independent Bookstore Day. A one day party taking place at local bookstores all across the country. It's a day to celebrate the unique ways. Your local bookstore booksellers. Contribute to your community and I expect now at these times. They'll be grateful that's Libro. Fm Code three and three months of audiobooks for the price of one. All possible are right so let's introduce today's talking point. Which is the idea of literary fiction versus genre fiction and it's something that came quite low in a Planning for these episodes figuring out what we wanted to talk about in the alot of people talk about this and a lot of people have this kind of conviction that one is better than the over that they maybe don't know like what the other one eight is that there's this kind of Smackdown going on between these two forms. You need to pick side. So if you'RE GONNA pick side Mary Kay And let me emphasise that you do not need to point even going. No where would you? Where would I play like which? Which side would I fall down a- Yup Literary fiction for sure okay so you read a Lotta John Ruth I so why is that putting you towards literary fiction? Well I think the what sets genre. Fiction apart is a literary element. Okay so I find myself often disappointed with with a lot of the works that I read in quote unquote genre fiction. Because they don't make me feel a whole lot right are they. Don't make me think outside of the textile hall. I I'm just reading kind of like what we were saying before. I'm just reading to be entertained. Like we are plot points not really invested in many of the characters I will say because I do read a lot of horror in the heart. Heart Genre The thing that sets that genre apart for me from other genre writings like Don't even come at me with a romantic night Donnie. I can't off like I've been bored with them since seventh grade and again that's just my personal preference doesn't make it bad or wrong. It's just what I like better I do think that some of what sets the horror genre. Apart is like a new way to scare someone who does interest fats interesting. Yeah so even if you don't about those characters you care about the monster or whatever is happening apnea so. I do think that I would fall on the side of literary fiction. No especially I someone who has studied literary fiction because being that set me up to notice all of the really interesting new Tat Style or craft or inversion of tropes or whatever that's happening so I like that a lot but I also think it depends on what you are reading four. Yes so this is like With teaching here on Reader Response Theory always idea where you have this idea that if you read a book you read it in certain modes in certain ways for example If you're eating a picture book to a kid at bedtime you perhaps read the in a different way than you read a recipe book or a different You read to get certain information at certain points so I think we literally fiction. You do have that a win as you're reading something that is deliberately trying to find that resonance in Your Life And find that like emotional value but Also before we go any further. If you're thinking always great but I'm very patio more literary fiction. Actually as we talk about this episode Zero Sugar and hope not one out We weren't retreaded hair but will just slow signposts. You that way yeah. I think that's a good call. Let's a short episode two so bonfires and get was called light literary fiction in two words or less or something like that two minutes or less. That's what I was. Yes how would you define like schoner fiction then? Well that's a good question. What do you think Weaving Sire You? I think right. 'cause I was reading about whether literary fiction could be considered a genre so to speak itself. And he's like yeah. I'm John Reid is. Is this very flexible? Idea of the characteristics of the story Ray. And if they all adult the similar characteristics they all fall into a similar genre For example children's books on T. Genre Book. A Romance Book is All a do malate is. We're talking about the same side as I can say that now without laughing which is a step in the right direction Epic poetry something very specific characteristics of each grouping together on creating this recognizable group of tax thoughts genre for me and it can be something incredibly specific post colonial empire whatever It can be that belichick fiction for me. Has these much wider umbrella? All My In the it can be that as well but it can also have a much more Textured residents in your lives and your existence As I think the best recommendation for that to me at the moment is eyeball a collection of Cynthia. Voigt novels from The secondhand bookshop the other day and they astle of technically jato technically If you go to class submissive genre there are probably coming of age. Novels buildings very man and all that jazz and But I asked so literary in tone and feel of the questions that they ask they reach really into this kind of magical The worldly place so in that case it's not like Hey Thamel Rosal it's an either or it's a kind of everything. Yeah I agree like the more you were talking about it. The more I agreed with you And that's kind of. I wanted you to go first because I was having a hard time. Conceptualizing that but it definitely does feel like these. The genres are very subjective. And that it's more of like a continuing ongoing VIN Diagram Situation. Where like you can be more than one thing? I've never liked wedded to this. Things can be just one thing the other right and I think reading literary fiction helps us develop that sense of like gray area may not to retry too much. But I think that's one quality of literary fiction is that it is somewhat reflective versus if focus. More on like the why and how than the what is happening. If that I love your idea about the gray area like it's that bits own lives misty that we can't quite pin down but we know that is is in everything and everywhere right. Yeah so I think they I mean I definitely think for me. That different books have different. Motivations and readers have different motivations and reading Wha whatever book they're reading like sometimes I want a book that will turn my brain off like it's fun. Yeah and it's easy and it doesn't make me contemplate my own existence. Sometimes I want that and there's nothing wrong. I don't think with wanting that or enjoying that. But let you don't want it every single time now. Most of the tag I've and as I'm reading it. I am frustrated because it's not making me think like it's like watching TV to me which also mean depending on the TV show that I feel like that exists in literary there can be literary TV. Yup I said it the dirt I mean. Breaking bad is a masterpiece. Y'All like I don't know what to tell you it's genius so yeah I think it just depends. That's really frustrating. And I know that some of the feedback we get is like they should be more definitive. I should say what they they should know more things and that's not really what literary John. I think you have knowledge about knowing that line in the sand. Yeah the there is is assumed. Is there a line right? What is and what is. The lie is a line What do your way here in our outline. It does sound snobby of me to be like this is not really literature and I think it is subjective but also I've kind of accepted that and made peace with it and moved on with my life that I'm a little bit of snob when it comes to book you say now I don't mind that in a in a way life you know if you have that conscious decision of audit and are this works for you. This doesn't work for you and your cool without I worry. Sometimes that people can get very much like I want to Follow the site guys. I want to read the current new Brown thing. And it's like no you know no I sorry very northern then Act IT pancakes in It's just follow your own vibe and your own path and if you have specific things So to speak floats boat Go ahead and flow eight right light those things. I don't necessarily look at in the book show in the bookshop that merch more. I don't necessarily pick up on the library. I'm not gray on crime for example because I will read two or three chapters in it and at the end they'll be like oh so and so did it and I will barely remember the name of light. Anyone who's been in that book. Because I make crime fiction like Thriller Donna. Yeah that could be like. Oh Mr Smith did it. And he's been the criminal. Said stay one. You should have spotted all these clues and all right let really. It's it's book is an yeah. I feel that way somewhere about a lot of noirs well because I don't know like a lot of people really like that sort of hardboiled detective but for me. It's like I to distinguish between the characters because number one they do have names like Mr Smith a lot of the which we talked about before like. I don't and I'm not good at that but the other thing is like I don't know how they feel or what their personalities are. I just facts about them. So that's and for that is it puts me outside of the text and makes me not care about it. I can see that for show like you don't have a point of attachment. Do Darn have not point of light registering so emotional connection between you and that relatively two dimensional ova. I've outpoint yeah like I. I feel like I'm a pretty sympathetic or empathetic person in life late whenever somebody does something terrible I always try to think like okay. Why would they do that? Like what would not like not like. Why would you do that but like it was the thought process that went behind that decision even though it may be mad or sad or whatever to say like they probably didn't mean for that to be the outcome of that probably wasn't their intention doesn't make it okay but you know what? I mean right whereas like try to consider other perspectives. But I don't do that in books so much which is weird because I do it in life but they don't do it for characters nearly as much. Yeah I think the key thing is right that you can have that familiarity and that comb foot point but also be aware that every now and then it doesn't do any harm to fall out that mental. I find another perspective and Mris West something like I know. This will seem awfully self referential But the BOOT riot. Light the challenges. Where they say. Oh if you can you read an author by Li- Book before so and so all a book by a woman on a book by Something you know these characteristics those challenges can be really helpful in pushing. You passed your patterns. Yes that's true making Louise's educated person. I had a metrically opposed reaction. When I saw the list I was like got it. Got It got it. I'm never doing that. Never never go down last like sorting them out. Because I was like. Oh I WANNA be you know. Supportive of it they would. I do think it helps us get out of our comfort zone however if I have tried it twice which is you have to try everything twice right. Because the first time could be a fluke. Good or bad. That's I feel like that's by due-diligence what is it that you've tried it. Thus light it's it's it's what I ask people that lie. I teach Tautou. Is You know you try it and you come to a considered opinion but if you look at it and you're Li- I don't like it because it's it's purple right light my Dude Ni- just right. You gotta try things before you can be around Swanson and be like. I know what I'm about son things before you decide. I go read the book gone. Oh Yeah so. Why do you think is that? We put literary fiction on a pedestal. Because we do right like I for sure do yeah I think he's like cultural In that we have this idea reading being this aspirational light pyramid source of model. And that you stop with your kids. Books annual told to Read Oop and read to more complicated More difficult more elaborate stories as you get older Unlike where do we go once? We figured out literacy rate we go push towards literary fiction Which is I meant to be the Special Olsen goal of literature birth for years lie. I couldn't bear. It couldn't be remotely bolted with finding this mythic goal that someone else had told me. Oh it's GonNa be really good for you some light you know. I think I'm doing all right. Say Fall and then you think all right. Well maybe I should find this an understanding on my own terms and my own Choices and then he sought think will actually there is something here. But it's no because someone else has told me that it's here and told me what to find It's about like finding it on my own on my own terms innocence. Okay let me think about that for a second. Because I don't think you're wrong but I do think that I come at it from a different different articles are good okay. Good I'm glad because And this is an unpopular opinion. I don't understand the fascination with young adult literature I just don't get it. I don't know I don't know why and I know that that is controversial. Sorry I'm giving you a dramatic. Ooh Oh thank you. I love other people's drama. Let me be clear very how late I do. Thank you But I've just even when I was a young adult I remember being lake but should now be challenging myself and I think that probably says more about me than it does the the non genre of age appropriateness but I do remember like getting frustrated when things were too easy like when it was just like moving along I was like asses not challenging me and am really competitive by nature so I think that could be the case in which is a weird thing to compete with is like his comp- which art is the best. Okay like you know In One Corner Picasso in the other data fight right. Yeah so I do think that the I think I do believe that literary fiction his better like because that's where I put my value right so if if for example someone didn't have the same values on reading as I did it would make sense. They'll be like no. It's not better and we just like with anything L. It gets better for me. Because that's what we're aspiring to go. Yeah but also you know on the other hand. I have gotten so frustrated. When books will unnecessarily use synonyms that make it less accessible I really have put down books before because I was like. This is ridiculous. You're just trying to isolate everyone else. Like why like there's gotTa be? I know that this is largely subjective. And we're kind of arguing moot points but the United I I'm here. If people can onset like why is language why is life voyage? Why is language? We'll end it that man but I definitely I do value literary fiction more and I think that Valued at even more when it can adopt another genre into it. The guy is so versatile and it it is like a gateway either way rightly when. I realized that allows the literary fiction. I loved like Cormac. Mccarthy for example was also her I was like maybe I'll also like her so it was so I think that you know bridging the gap between literary fiction and Genre Fiction is not a bad thing at all. There is no gap it is all fiction. It is all readable right. Don't pay things against each. Don't make the books fight for your love. Just read the books his room at the top. Yes there is. No gap is the name of our but end Also a first single wise language the end. Okay what are you reading now? Louise Wright Aka Sir I am going through a phase of getting some amazing Holds in from the library. You know when you're number three hundred two on the reservation list and I am now number one and I am reading the other Americans by Layla. La Lami Leslie reading eloquently written It's an amount about halfway through. I fall and it's all about like a an American neighborhood There is a death. Zik heard on. It's all about the people that affects and impacts and it touches on our immigrant culture how to exist in American Society. And it's really interesting reading from Clearly external perspective because so tying with the Cynthia Voigt stuff the I'm reading I've been really reflecting on light how I I came to a redraw in Merican Culture in literature and this has been a really Useful and vital pies so beautifully written so yeah I really recommend it but do note that it could be often in the last fifty percent. I haven't got I fifty percent is gorgeous. Is it fiction? Yes would you consider it literary? Yes immensely sire okay. Yeah okay. Cool sounds cool are about yourself. Oh okay I am Reading Grady. Hendrix's next book the Southern Book Clubs Guide to Slaying Vampires. Which comes out at the beginning of April? I am enjoying it a lot. It is both fine and full of references to vampire culture which I really and southern culture which I really enjoy so it's fun and I think that it's I would say that it's a horror genre novel but it does smart it might not be literary but it Super Smart. I think this is very self aware like at one point. The protagonist is lake okay. He's not a vampire that stupid like lake. That's impossible that's not what's happening but I mean if you've read if listeners you'll have read any other grady hinder it. It definitely comes with the. I don't want to say Gore because it's not exactly Gore is a Gore but it's just such unique descriptions of gross. Well I think you just named a second single which what is unique descriptions of gross. Yeah love the album. It's coming soon to stay tuned race. Maybe that's the music that will like to bring us in the spring. All about some amazing. Just kidding I'm not a musician at all so that I'm straight up lion. Yeah Are I yeah? I definitely recommend that one too it is. I want to say like it's a quick read because it is long but it does Kinda go move at a clip. You like it yeah. It is very plot driven with characters are really well rounded and accessible. So I think it. I think it's I like it so it's good. And he's the nicest man so very yeah always nice so before we sign off I did want to say. We got some listener feedback which we always appreciate. Thank you very much. Yes thank you and One of the things that was requested advice is that we give more recommendations for books that we like But because we're not like really exactly like Recommendations podcast we decided to like tell it slant so next time we're GONNA talk about books that changed our lives so make disguised recommendations right. Tell anybody they sneak in under the radar rich co- and a hat and they're going to sell videotapes out lapels amazing arm so so We're looking forward to that. So that's something that you're interested in joining us. Yeah be sure to subscribe so that you get a your podcasts. Hot OFF THE PRESS. And however you get podcast we'll be there We WanNA thank Y'all for listening. Thank you to our sponsors who are amazing and make all of this possible. And don't forget to tell your friends about us Where can they find you? Louise so you can find me online. I have My website is. Did you ever stop to think dot com and you can also find me on twitter at Shallow Fam- and you can find me. That's Mary Kay at Mary. Kay mcbrayer DOT COM. But I'm also on twitter at MK. Mcbrayer and Instagram Amerique mcbrayer. So it's really like don't over. Think it just type in my name. Papa. You'll find what we do. Love hearing from Y'all so if you feel aac throwing. Us align definitely do it on any of those Social media were especially. Because we're social distancing on there like all the time so we'll be here. Yeah thank you so much for listening. We'll talk to you next time thanks bye.

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